41 Military equipment outline
our summary and the goal of
the presentation is to seek San
Diego County approval for
the continued use of military
style equipment as defined in
California State Assembly Bill
41 to outline and explain
the uses for current equipment
being utilized by the San Diego
Police Department and to
outline the equipment described
in the State Assembly Bill 41
currently utilized by
the department is needed to
maintain public safety and
the highest quality of police
service to all our communities.
Only.15 percent of the adopted
fiscal year 2026 Department
budget is allocated for
equipment listed in Assembly
Bill 41.
This here is a graph
representing 2.15% of the oc
budget.
Budget Comparison.
The annual budget for military
equipment costs decreased by
approximately $8,000.
Therefore the percentage of
the annual budget for military
equipment for 2024 was.16
percent and in 2025 was 2.15%.
The number of swat producers
calls and the use of specialty
munitions such as pepper and
ozone fighters increased from
2024 this year to this 2024 two
versus 2025 use comparison of
all of our.
So our call colleagues.
And 2024 we had 1911 and 16 and
so forth on the table here.
Our purity assists increased
from 53 and 2024 to 85 and 2025
.
>> Our goal the presentation is
to emphasize that the San Diego
Police Department does not
participate in a 1033 program
for procuring surplus military
equipment.
The last piece of equipment
department received from this
program was an unmanned robot
and that was returned in MARCH
of 2020.
The items listed in the sd pd
annual military equipment
report are all manufactured by
civilian companies.
The acquisition and
implementation of each tool
stems from incidents where
lives were lost and an
important equipment need was
identified.
The overall purpose of their
use is de-escalation standoff
distance safety and most
importantly the preservation of
human life.
I will go over the City pd swat
team.
The majority of the equipment
described in the symbol will 41
as utilized exclusively by
the city pd swat team.
The mission of the cbt swat
team is to use training, sound
tactical planning and equipment
to bring a safe resolution to
critical incidents.
The cpd swat team maintains
the highest level of
operational readiness through
the development of sound
tactical strategies and
innovative training programs.
The cpd swat team is always
used by the department as a
de-escalation tool.
Only certain specific exigent
circumstances will dictate
early aggressive tactical
action.
A vast majority of all swat
cards and with a peaceful
resolution the primary response
team or security officers as
365 days a year, 24 hours a day
coverage in the field.
The pretty concept was adopted
by the cpd after the Crandall
Street tragedy in JUNE of 1981.
The primary mission is
emergency citizen and officer
rescues.
Our special response Team
officers as high as a minimum
of a team leader and six
officers on call at all times.
The srt concept was adopted by
the cpd after the McDonald's
restaurant tragedy in JULY of
1984.
The primary mission is hostage
rescue and complex armed
barricaded suspect response
swat sniper team.
We have two team leaders and 12
officers fully staffed highly
trained officers that provide
overwatch protection at large
events.
Snipers also provide a swat
team a greater standoff,
distance and observation
capability at critical
incidents.
Swat snipers are assigned to
large events to protect
citizens against an attack like
what occurred at the Las Vegas
Harvest Festival in OCTOBER of
2017.
The primary goal is to protect
citizens against a sniper based
or active shooter type attack
as dpd swat team compliant with
a surveillance ordinance.
Equipment utilized by San Diego
Police Department and
exclusively by the cpd swat
team complies with a
transparent and reasonable use
surveillance technology.
The surveillance ordinance
adopted by the City of San
Diego on SEPTEMBER 9th, 2020 to
.
>> I'll go over some of our
equipment.
The armored rescue vehicles we
have one two door armored
rescue vehicle and one four
door armor rescue vehicle.
Provides a high level ballistic
protection for a rescue team
when dealing with armed
suspects.
The armored rescue vehicles are
not equipped with any fixed
weapons and are utilized by
the swat team as a defensive
tool.
Ballistic protection during
citizen and officer rescues
etc. The four door armored
rescue vehicle is equipped with
biochemical radiological or
nuclear detection equipment and
a fresh air breathing system.
This allows officers to safe
access into a potentially
hazardous environment to affect
a citizen or officer rescue.
And this here is a picture of
one of our Bearcat armor rescue
vehicle, The Unmanned Aircraft
Systems or uars that us systems
utilized by the department can
assist at any incident where an
aerial perspective will be
beneficial.
Uars are only used during
critical incidents and high
risk operations.
Authorization from the Chief of
Police us allows swat officers
to obtain a view of an area
without sending an officer to
an unclear dangerous position
where a robot has limited or no
access us are only used by
officers that have completed
certification course and have
attended continuous training
for safe operation.
All the us srp inventory can be
legally purchased by civilians
.
Picture of a couple of our us
equipment The Prime Minister
rifles Patrol officers carry
the colt carving Alice's air 15
rifle.
Swat officers only had down
defensive semiautomatic ar 15
rifles.
Our swat snipers only have
the accuracy international
through a caliber bolt action
rifle and ammunition is listed
in a report associated with
each weapon system and a
picture of our rifles that we
have in a department.
>> Pepper ball launchers.
The verbal answers are used
only by swat officers used to
deploy an extended range air
ball in response to an
assaultive or actual resisting
suspect.
Swat officers must complete a
pepper ball certification
course and requalify with
the pepper ball equipment
annually.
>> Diversionary device or
flashbang Flashbang canisters
are only used by swat officers
used as an attention getting or
distraction device.
When deployed the canister
emits a loud noise and bright
light after a 1.5 second delay.
Only deployed in a cleared area
with at least five feet of open
space.
And swat officers must complete
a certification course and
requalify with the equipment
annually.
40 millimeter launchers
The department has two types of
40 millimeter launchers single
launchers and mortar launchers
also exclusively used by swat
only used to launch 40 million
sponge rounds or chemical agent
fare around exclusively by
Swat.
The 40 millimeter sponge round
is used only on assaultive
suspects or suspects active
resisting with access to a
weapon.
The 40 millimeter chemical
agent fair rounds are used to
drive a suspect from a
structure or to prevent a
suspect from accurately firing
at a location as citizens or
officers in an emergency
situation.
Example of our single motel
launchers.
Chemical agents.
Chemical agents are deployed
exclusively by swat officers.
Chemical agents are used to
drag a suspect or suspects from
a structure location.
They're also used to prevent an
armed suspect from accurately
firing at officers and citizens
during an emergency situation.
Chemical agents can be used on
violent or assaulted persons
open air only with
the permission of the chief of
police or his or her designee.
Delivery methods depend on
proximity to the target type of
agent being deployed and size
of the structure.
>> Beanbag shotguns are an
extended range impact weapons
capable of firing at obvious
beanbag round the back shotguns
are fixed with a bright orange
or stalk and foreign for easy
identification.
Beanbag shotguns can be
deployed to impact suspects
demonstrating assaultive or
life threatening behavior and
beanbag shotguns are not
utilized by the department
during civil unrest or crowd
control situations.
>> Bridging equipment exposed
to breaching use during crisis
situations when necessary for
the swat team to quickly and
effectively breach a door or a
wall can be used to defeat a
fortified door wall or barrier
and is considered a cutting
tool.
Effective explosive bridging
techniques allow swat officers
immediate entry into a
structure with minimal risk to
victims officers and suspects.
Only use with a of the swat
commanding officer and incident
commander when all safety
considerations have been
evaluated.
Example was used by Las Vegas
swat officers to defeat door
fortification while responding
to the Harvest Music Festival
Active shooter in 2017.
I will now go over a couple
examples of Swat College where
this equipment was used on
OCTOBER 11 and OCTOBER 26th,
2025 Eastern Division officers
received a radio call of a
subject involved in a prior
domestic violence radio call
who potentially pointing a
rifle at a hotel staff.
Shortly after patrollers
arrived a quality swat response
was called when swat officers
arrived on scene.
The relief patrol officers who
were set up inside the hotel
and on the outer perimeter
outside the hotel, the armored
rescue vehicle and Bearcat was
deployed on the outer perimeter
near the hotel room window.
The subject to provide armor
for swat officers.
Swat quickly established a
contact team in the hallway
outside the hotel room where
the suspect was located.
So I was given the mission to
continue negotiate
the emergency negotiations team
into arrived and made numerous
attempts to contact
the suspect.
Meanwhile, swat officers
deployed to fast rank devices
in front of the suspect's hotel
room door to grab his
attention.
So officers on the outer
perimeter deployed chemical
agent fair rounds into
the window of the hotel room by
offering 40mm launchers and
three swat officers.
Later the 24 to 30 b chemical
agent battle grenade underneath
the suspect's hotel room door.
During swat operations cpd unit
provided overwatch operations
via a drone for the duration of
the incident.
A second volley of chemical
agent terror rounds was
deployed into the room.
Following the additional volley
of fair rounds into
successfully convinced
the suspect to exit the hotel
room.
Enter is what you use
the successfully took a suspect
to custody without further
incident.
A second example was a car.
It was also a 411 On AUGUST
16th, 2025 senior police
officers responded to a mental
case by call where the subject
attempted to stab his family
members with a machete.
Swat officers arrived on scene
and replaced patrol officers on
the perimeter of the Target
residence with swat personnel.
The armored rescue vehicle
Bearcat was deployed to
the front of the residence to
provide armor for swat
officers.
U.S. Maintain drone overwatch
for the duration of
the incident.
The subject partially exited
the residence multiple times.
The subject was holding a
propane tank and attempted to
lay himself on fire.
The subject was holding a knife
and would throw objects at
units.
Swat units impact the subject
with a 40 40mm Film Baton
Projectiles.
Shortly after the subject
exited the structure and threw
out as officers the subject
made multiple statements that
he wants to suicide by cop.
Swat officers deployed chemical
agent for rounds of 40
millimeter launcher into
the residence which had no
effect on the subject.
So officers deployed a second
volley of chemical agent fire
around him to the structure.
Shortly after the subject
opened the front door of
the residence lay on
the stomach and extended his
hands forward.
Swat officers advanced forward
and took the subject into
custody.
Swat deployed U.S. Drone assets
and many trapped robots into
the residence And the interior
part to thwart making entry.
Swat officers then made entry
to the residence.
Over a projected commander we
have for the following year
there'll be a taco which is a
compact rugged trek robotic
platform designed to provide
immediate situational awareness
in high risk or confined
environments.
Engineered with a low
propulsion system and robot
construction, the tactic can be
safely applied to areas that
are too dangerous, too small or
too unstable for personnel.
In closing the summary goal
the presentation is presented
Police Department respectfully
asks City Council to certify
the continued use of the safety
equipment in this presentation.
Each piece of equipment is
crucial for the Department's
ability to maintain public
safety.
Thank you.
We'll open for any questions.
>> All right.
Thank you for the presentation.
Clerk Please proceed with
public comment.
Thank you.
One minute per person We will
have the timer up on the screen
for today's meeting.
Maximilian Schmidt if you can
please come forward to
the microphone after that will
be allegedly our order.
And Lori Lippman, if you can
please come forward to
the other reserved seats at
the front.
>> Hi.
I've tried to think of a
creative idea to help people
with this $48 million worth of
military equipment when there's
only really about 40 high risk
warrants per year.
And that idea is to use public
service announcements to help
people on San Diego streets who
are dying of drug overdose and
even committing suicide.
And just having simple public
service announcements nothing
too overbearing that say on I
don't know how you'd worded it
basically say like you know
what since before the time of
Christ half of society has been
pagans who've done group
rituals to read people's mind
and other half hasn't and that
these people have been trying
to drive these people crazy by
reading their minds and that
you're not crazy.
>> Human beings can worship
the devil and read minds and
they could help people.
Thank you Alejandro.
My apologies.
Bad habit to just put the timer
in here and then you have
the one up there.
Please go buy the one.
Yeah.
Thank you.
This is interesting that you're
saying necessary for the public
safety.
I think it's more police safety
And I'm wondering you know,
you're talking about active
shooters.
I mean we had a mosque be shot
up when you guys had, you know,
over two hours of time and
information coming in and yet
people died And you know, lpr
was used to basically go on a
goose hunt.
So I'm just wondering it's like
these things are used against
the public and it's concerning
to me to have witnessed an
invasion on our border and to
know how many tools could have
been utilized to stop that.
In fact our we have like every
military in San Diego County
and everybody wanted to say
that our borders were secure
when in fact that's not what
was happening.
And so it's sad to see that
these these are weaponized
against the public.
It's not being used to protect
us.
It's being used to protect you
guys while the public has to
pay for these things and yet
they are being used against us.
I just find it extremely
negligent area.
>> Lori Lipson Good afternoon.
Laura Lippman She her District
three are you kidding me?
Are you really going to use
precious resource of of money
to further militarize
the police mass policing is
mass militarization and is not
safety.
I hope you wake up and stop
politicking and work for
the people.
I'll be back tomorrow About
the Swat Association.
>> Right.
Thank you.
Also at the five minute time
hour I go to those
participating remotely I would
like to note that we did
receive zero comments in favor
and one comment in opposition
to your comment form which have
been distributed to the Council
currently have four speakers
with their hands raised.
>> Toni if you can please a
meal Yes and hear me Yes please
proceed.
Yes I just wanted to touch upon
the distinction that order me
because I agree with your point
wholeheartedly and I don't
support this of this this
proposal.
i just want to make
the distinction There's a
difference between public
safety versus police safety.
Right.
And I found it very notable
that they were saying they only
use 308 rounds but 308 rounds
If you've ever fired anything
that has a3083 awaits when they
go through houses they don't
they don't absorb through one
piece of drywall.
They don't stay in one room.
They affect the house is next
door the neighborhoods next
door This is excessive Voting
for this cat is excessive and
then justifying it by saying
that it's a civilian company.
Ibm was a civilian company.
They made punch cards for
the Nazis.
Boeing is a civilian company.
They also make high grade
military weapons along with
planes.
So that's not a justification
And I just want to encourage
everybody that's going to vote
for this to attend to keep
meetings to attend Privacy
Advisory Board meetings I have
concluded next is 8700 If you
complete them you Thank you
Joy.
It's America.
I'll I'll say this first and
then some additional comments.
Yes to the trust board left Yes
to the swat.
Yes to special operations of
the cpd.
Yes to real life time Examples
Yes to robots and so forth and
obedience to police officer
safety So all the backup is
what would you be phenomenal
there into the San Diego Police
Department procedures for
military equipment special
operation It's 103 pages long.
I just quickly went through it.
It's huge These procedures
apply to all members of
the police department.
No of course doing all course
every page of that was the word
draft And I get worried about
draft because when they become
final they can change And
sometimes I don't know what's
in the final draft and
the final thing and maybe you
don't have concluded my
apologies I'm mean that's
concluded.
Natalie Raskin If you can
please unmute.
All right.
Natalie Rafferty this is
concerning to me in the area of
being homeless before and how
this MAY or MAY not be used
moving forward.
Knowing what I know and what we
MAY be looking at I, I feel
that people are going to start
to get in wrestling with what's
going down in our government.
That's just what I'm feeling.
And the 50 caliber rifle rifles
they shoot through I think it
said a foot of steel.
I don't know how that is
protecting with all this money
protecting its citizens.
Now are they going to be held
to a protocol in the police
using what they're supposed to
use with them?
From my research being
accountable when they upload
their data when it was used,
are they going to be audited on
a regular basis and how and
when they used it.
>> Your time has concluded,
Amanda, if you can please And
you there you go again.
Please proceed On I go What
the speaker before me said I'd
also like to thank the people
of San Diego that have been
showing up to meetings and
we've been clear we do not want
a police state in San Diego.
We are one of the safest major
cities in the country.
The only people who are
advocating for increased police
power are the ones who have
spent the last ten years being
verbally terrorized by Fox News
propaganda.
Military members don't want
the constitutional right they
fought for trampled on
Immigrants don't want to use
illegally surveil them and our
black and brown residents don't
want to use the traumatize and
extortion for bail Remind you
that pd arrest blacks again for
only resisting arrest nine
times more often and have
violence used against them
seven times more frequently
Last night between 1 A.M. And
145 I was walking by City pd
helicopter not once, not twice,
nine different times.
I live right next to Children's
Hospital with me.
Their time has concluded.
Blair Beakman If you can please
unmute the five minute timer
that also is included here in
council chambers No additional
speakers will be taken.
>> Your final speaker please
proceed.
All right.
Thank you.
Where Between There was a too
many public speakers a minute
30 would have been helpful and
appropriate for an item like
this.
I wanted to comment that you
know, coming out of the era of
911 a continual war this kind
of item was not really on our
agenda.
1520 years ago We learned to
bring it on our agenda.
We've learned to talk more
about accountability and
openness and its importance
Compared to 10 or 15 years ago
we've taken a bit of a break
and how a better talk about
accountability in the last five
years here in San Diego I think
we now understand that it's a
continual learning process that
we have to be considering our
accountability and open public
policy.
So for the good efforts that
the police describe with this
item we always have to be
considering what is the future
of better practices for for
swat issues and for technology
issues And we have to learn to
speak of the spoken and
unspoken things and things like
are real time issues.
>> Thank you.
Thank you.
That does it for public comment
on this item.
All right.
Thank you.
City clerk We'll turn it over
to council members for
questions.
Comments Entertain a motion.
We'll start with Councilmember
Bond.
Walbert Thank you.
Thank you for the presentation
and for everyone who commented
today And the reason this was
direct docketed this year I
didn't go to Public Safety
Committee is because nothing
has changed and no new
equipment was purchased between
last year and this year.
So it's a very similar report.
But I do I do a couple of
questions about some of city
assist versus Code 11.
Can you explain to the public
the difference between a Code
11 and a pretty assist?
>> Yes, different security
assistance.
Code 11 is just the name of how
many start ups respond to an
incident If poor to assist or
simply we have The parity
officers are always working 365
24 hour coverage on the field
for patrol officers their
collateral duty is swat So
whenever we need to supplement
patrol officers with any
frequency or any way to call
patrol officers can assist or
respond a call 11 is a
lactation so I call it from
where we deal with our better
on barricade suspects, active
shooters, citizen rescues,
officer rescues and that sort.
So it's a for activation as
opposed to peer to assist is
more patrol level where two
calls were petty officers
working patrol can assist and
supplement patrol officers if I
can add to that.
So by design the primary
response team it's a collateral
duty.
These are patrol officers in
each and every district that
works out there Every shift it
bridges the gap from a response
that requires specialty skills,
tactical skills.
Now for example, you know,
maybe have a mental incident
where a subject is threatening
suicide or threatening harm to
another person.
It doesn't rise to the level of
a full swat call out When we
have a code 11, code 12, it
means the Calvary showing we
have a special Toys r Robotics
or Bearcat or armored vehicle.
We have a lot of other
resources to use in the context
of complete response and that
depends It's dependent on
the situation.
So pretty officers are already
on duty for the most part in
this What have we called them
home?
That is correct.
Okay.
Got it.
And can I ask why we're having
more pretty assessed is because
it's being a useful tool or
people are getting more violent
or what do you think is
happening?
>> I can't come to why we're
having more peer to assess but
I definitely are being
requested More on the field to
assist patrol officers get to
that also is that mitigate risk
?
Again pro officers are also
swat We they attend multi
stream in addition to the full
time swat team So in a
department that I can say it's
fairly junior in terms of his
years experience it brings a
lot of risk liability as we
resolve these incidents.
Okay.
And I also know that a lot of
the equipment that we're
talking about today also goes
through review for the Privacy
Advisory Board.
It's drones, attack cats,
everything.
And so those use policies are
online for people to see.
The Privacy Advisory Board has
already advised on the use of
these technologies as well.
You know I got to see drones in
action on a pretty assist that
I was on a ride along for and a
young woman had to be pulled
out of her bedroom window
because an adult naked male and
broken into her living room in
the early hours of the morning
and she was rescued out of her
bedroom window, didn't have
shoes or a shirt so I gave him
a jacket and he was in there
completely wrecking her house
very clearly either on drugs or
something.
And for two hours we sat there
doing call outs and finally
the drone team came in because
they've been able to
de-escalate.
They could actually send it in
once the door was breached to
see where he was in the room.
And I didn't realize that when
you use chemical agents
the poor victim of that crime
and couldn't go back to her
apartment because she'd have to
have it all the chemicals taken
out.
So I just I was very impressed
with the way that it was done
And he was taking them over
the counter in a shower.
But I've also seen incidents at
least one where in the city did
settle a lawsuit for excessive
force on a pretty response And
so I don't want to talk about
that particular case but I do
want to ask does the department
engage in continual training
after every period to your
response or swat response to
say what went right went wrong
and how can we do better
the next time?
>> Yes.
So we like my partner explain
we have monthly mandatory
monthly swat training and a lot
of these equipment like we
explain we do annual report
vacation recertification for
all the equipment whether it's
the chemical agents,
the breaching equipment.
So we do have annual
certifications and after every
incident we do a debrief
amongst the team to talk about
what went right or wrong, what
can be done better and what was
one Well so we do debrief every
instead as well.
>> Okay If you need us to push
for more funding for continual
training I think the command
trainings are fantastic You
know participate in one Let us
know if you need help because
you are making life and death
decisions out there And so
the more support we can get you
to do all that hard work that
you're doing I'd be happy to
help with that And for you
know, we went over a long
explanation last year about
what the Bearcat is.
I'm not going to get into it
again.
This is all in public record
But you know the Bearcat if you
haven't seen it, it it is
completely a defensive vehicle.
There's no external ability to
fire from it and it does
protect the public because it's
used in mass shootings.
We actually got the Bearcat
because of the you see drone
McDonald's shooting in which
police had no way to approach
the McDonald's.
I mean if you see a picture of
the store front, it just
riddled with bullet holes.
22 people were killed, 19 were
injured And every time police
went up they were shot at.
And in 1981 when you talk about
the Crandall Street tragedy,
that's when police a gentleman
got very gentleman a murderer
got very mad at his neighbor,
started a physically assaulting
her over a garden plant in 1981
And the two police officers
responded and he shot them both
in the driveway And every time
an ambulance tried to come to
the officers he started
shooting at the ambulance
drivers from the window and
the police officer bled out and
then he started shooting at his
neighbors and people walking by
And so the police couldn't stop
the active shooter because he
killed two officers trying to
get to him And nobody could
approach that.
That's what the Bearcat is for
so that you can't approach an
active shooter and disarm them
while not being shot and
killed.
And so it's it looks like a
tank but it is not a tank.
It took me a lot to learn that
And so I do understand what
it's for now.
And so anyway, thank you for
bringing this forward and I'll
make the motion to approve
Stache recommendation.
All right.
Thank you, Council members.
So we have a motion by Council
member Von Wolpert to move
the staff recommendation and
council member Campbell will
second and Council member e
Lowe Rivera have comments.
Thank you Council PRESIDENT
Thank you for the presentation
here.
i did have let me start with
one question The staff report
references make sure I get
the language right here.
New equipment describing
the updated procedure includes
drones and pepper ball
launchers So those are new
equipments.
It's a newer model of oh come
in that we already have So we
already have drones.
These are just different
models, newer models that we
have in our inventory Now same
thing with our curveball
launchers we already have those
launchers is it just different
models, newer models that are
more accurate?
>> Okay.
So there's new equipment
though.
Yes.
New inventory.
Yes.
Okay.
One of the things that caught
my attention was a slight
difference in language in
the flash section in comparison
to the sting ball munitions
section flash bangs references
that there's a reference to
being used in quote some mobile
field force operations whereas
sting ball ammunition can be
used in quote limited instances
during normal field force
instances.
Can you explain the difference
between some and limited
instance instances?
I'm sorry, can you repeat
the question again?
Was that Eric repeat
the question again please.
Yeah.
So the flash bangs section let
me just pull it up so I get it
exactly right.
But I think I did pull that
language specifically from
the report.
Flash bangs can be used in some
mobile field force operations
and sting ball munitions And
that section it says that they
can be used in quote limited
instances during mobile field
force instances.
So there's one section which
has some another section where
it says limited instances.
What's the difference between
some instances and limited
instances?
So the flash bangs are a
tension game device or
distraction device during civil
unrest or protests.
Ossie spray the four millimeter
baton rounds per ball and flash
bangs can be used for their
approval of the incident
commander The pepper ball,
the rubber, the sting those
require a special assistant
chief of approval to be used
during civil unrest situations.
So limited instances means
there's more specific
guidelines around when they can
be used.
Yes.
Okay.
That's what I thought.
I think I brought this up last
year.
I continue to have concerns
about our policies around flash
bangs.
This is a technology that's
been cited in multiple reports
as causing significant
injuries, maiming or killing
people.
I understand that our police
department needs to have
the equipment necessary to
deescalate to respond in
significant crises and to do
that in a society where there
are way too many guns on
the street and way too many
high powered weapons on
the street.
I recognize all of that.
But because of concerns I've
raised in the past and that I
continue to have around
the flashbangs in particular
around some of the looseness in
the language there I'll be
voting no Council PRESIDENT
Thank you.
>> All right.
Thank you.
Council member Eli Rivera Not
see anybody else in the lights.
We have a motion by council
member Von Wilpert second by
Council member Campbell to move
a staff recommendation Before
we go there, Councilmember
Foster I'm sorry.
Yes, Thank you for
the presentation.
I mean I appreciate
the questioning thus far.
My colleague I believe asked a
question regarding the Privacy
Advisory Board and going
through the surveillance
technology ordinance.
I didn't hear a verbal direct
response to the to the question
But for the items that are that
are on here, I guess the new
new items all of these have
gone through that process and
have been approved in
accordance with the trust
ordinance.
Yes, that is correct.
Okay.
The other question that I have
is in the staff report it says
the military equipment use
procedure must be posted on
the website at least 30 days
prior to any public meeting
regarding military equipment.
How did you guys meet that
requirement?
I do see the information
specific for the item on
the council agenda but I
believe we post that.
I want to say typically seven
days prior to this meeting.
So how are you guys meeting
that 30 day require them in in
accordance with assembly bill
481 We had our committee
meeting and we just look at
the staff report here If I
could just if I could assist
with that answer.
>> Councilmember Foster If you
can if you can announce or
announce yourself what office
you're with I'm sure.
I'm Jill Christy, deputy city
attorney with the city
attorney's office.
>> So if I just before you get
started I guess I just want to
ask I would assume the police
department is responsible for
this action.
>> I'm a little curious as to
why you're responding.
I just have a timeline and I
wasn't sure if it if you had
the exact dates So I was going
to assess but okay.
No, please.
I just just curious is there
the asset owning department and
the responsible department?
So I'm just trying to
understand why you're injecting
into the conversation at this
point.
>> My apologies.
I'm going to go ahead and have
staff I'm going to defer to
staff if you have the dates and
if you don't I have the date
Yes, we have the date for
the committee meeting was held
on JUNE 3rd of 2026.
Jill Christopher has more
detailed timeline If you're
okay with that, she can answer
that for us.
So you said your community
meeting was when it was on JUNE
3rd, 2026.
Okay.
So that's a community meeting
but I believe in the staff
report it says that
the equipment use procedure
must be posted on the website
at least 30 days prior to any
public meeting.
So I would assume that if you
had a public meeting on JUNE
the 3rd that you would have
also had to posted on your
website 30 days prior to.
So I'm trying to understand
your process and how you met
that requirement as the item is
before us today.
So I guess you're up now and I
think you're listening to you.
>> Yes.
Good afternoon Councilmember
Foster If I could just with
some additional dates to help
clarify the annual military
equipment report was actually
posted on the website on MARCH
2nd and the updated procedure
was posted to the website on
MAY 30th and the 30 days would
be required prior to the public
meeting which would be today's
meeting because it was direct
docketed.
Usually we would do that before
Public Safety Committee meeting
So I guess I'm a little
confused because it's the way
it is and maybe you can clarify
the Assembly Bill 41 was
written in the staff report
says any public meeting so if
you posted on MAY 30th and then
you had a meeting on JUNE 3rd I
don't know if we have met said
requirement of Assembly Bill
481 would you agree So I so I
believe the 30 days would be
the public hearing concerning
the military equipment use
which would be subsection b of
government code 7071 And I do
recognize that it does say any
public hearing concerning
the military equipment and
therefore I would our
interpretation would be that
the use policy would actually
have to be up before the public
safety Committee meeting.
We at this time we did not
interpret it to mean
the community engagement
meeting will who drafted this
report the sending of
the Department code on a turn
to use words It feels as if we
have a procedural issue.
I think where the confusion MAY
be is that the state law
requires for the for the use
policy to be posted before
the public hearing not
the public engagement meeting
which is that JUNE 3rd meeting
that's referenced.
This would count as the hearing
which if the use policies were
posted the revised use policies
were posted on MAY 30th and we
would be within that 30 day
period or beyond that 30 day
period.
So I think with our
interpretation that counting
this is the first hearing under
state law we would be in
compliance understanding and
seeing concern there that it
wasn't posted by the community
meeting which was on JUNE 3rd.
>> So am I to understand that
we're going to a community
meeting?
I guess the expectation is we
don't give the community time
to be prepared with any
questions, comments, concerns
And I'm a little concerned
because this report indicates
the staff report says 30 days
prior to any public meeting
that's what's in the staff
report.
I hear you, Councilmember.
I think yes, you're right that
there was that piece of
confusion there.
I think as we look ahead for
next year to have this posted
30 days prior to any public
meeting regardless of
the hearing or communication
that effort is a commitment we
can make.
>> So am I to understand you're
indicating you did not meet
the requirements of ab 481 but
yet you are still asking this
Council to move this item
forward today If I MAY
Councilmember Foster We
interpreted as the community
meeting is not a public meeting
and that was our interpretation
of the procedural process and
therefore we we are in
accordance with ab 481 based on
our interpretation that a
community meeting is not a
public meeting in accordance
with this legislative body for
approval.
Okay.
Um I'd have to go through
the statute in more detail.
I'm a little concerned that we
are qualifying our
interpretation today as we are
here.
Council PRESIDENT I will pause
there but unfortunately I can't
support the item that's before
us today.
Seems like it would be in
the best interest of the police
department and the community to
properly notice and bring
the item back and continue to
move forward So um but I'll
I'll in there and turn it back
over to you.
Council PRESIDENT Thank you.
All right.
Thank you Council Member Foster
Always appreciate your comments
observations and we'll go back
to council member Von Wilpert.
Thank you And thank you to
Councilor Foster for raising
procedural issues because it is
important for the public to be
able to see these policy And
I'm reading on California
legislature C.A. That Section
7071 subsection b of the law
states that it needs to be
placed on the enforcement
agencies Internet website at
least 30 days prior to any
public hearing.
So I could see why you be
the different to be in a
hearing in front of the city
council versus a meeting It
says the word hearing
regardless in the future can we
just do a before 30 days before
the public meeting too?
Yes.
Council Member okay.
All right.
Thank you.
I mean if we have it done you
might as well posted on
the website early so okay.
Thank you.
All right.
Thank you.
Council member Von Wilpert not
seen Councilmember Huston And
just to clarify and I know
the police department has a
whole they basically have all
of their policies and
procedures in one location
That's a pretty extensive
document.
So I hope when you are I'm
taking this type of action that
you don't just rely on it being
in that section but post it in
a manner in which it is easily
identifiable and folks
understand the document that
they should be reviewing or
looking at.
So just if you can do that I
think that would improve our
process.
So thank you, Council PRESIDENT
All right.
Thank you, Councilmember Foster
Not to anybody else I'd like to
speak We have a motion by
council member volleyball
Putnam seconded by Council
member Kimball to move
the staff recommendation.
Clerk Please call the roll as
the voting system Please cast
your vote in Council
Councilmember Camp You If I can
have your vote For the record
Yes.
>> This passes 7 to 2 with
Council member Ella River and
Council member Foster voting No
Thank you Council PRESIDENT All
right thank you City Clerk With
that please introduce item 200
.
>> Thank you very much for your
work.
Thank you.
Item 200 is the master lease
agreement to finance general
fund vehicles and equipment.
Six votes are required pursuant
to Charter section 99.
There are no organized
presentations for this item
today.
Thank you.
Council PRESIDENT.
All right.
You settle yourselves in
introduce yourselves for
the record and let us know how
much time you need for
the presentation.
>> Good afternoon.
Council PRESIDENT And members
of the Council Jody Pantaleo,
assistant director of
the Department of Finance and
presenting with me today is
Marisol Levinas, also from
the Department of Finance.
We'll need about seven minutes.
All right.
When you're ready.
Thank you.
Good afternoon again.
The item for your consideration
this afternoon is
the authorization of a master
lease agreement with JPMorgan
Chase to finance general fund
fleet and equipment in an
amount not to exceed 48.3
million.
This item was presented and
approved by the Budget and
Government Finance Committee
meeting last month.
I will now turn it over to
Marisol to go through
the details.
Thank you.
>> The proposed financing of
48.3 million is anticipated
anticipated to be used for 213
general fund fleet vehicles and
equipment that have been
ordered and are anticipated to
be delivered over a 15 month
period following execution.
Associated sales tax outfitting
costs for the vehicle and
equipment will be cash funded
and are budgeted in the vehicle
replacement fund.
The purchase contracts for
these vehicles and equipment
were approved by city council
in JULY of 2022 with
the understanding that they
would be financed through mfp
with a master lease agreement
brought forth closer to
the time of the vehicle or
equipment delivery.
Based on current market
conditions, estimated interest
rates range from 3.91% to 4.1%
depending on the repayment
terms.
Actual rates will be determined
at closing.
Lease payments will be made
semiannually from the vehicle
replacement fund.
The projected debt service for
this financing was incorporated
into the city's five year
financial outlook and remains
within the debt ratio limit
established by the city's debt
policy as shown in this
schedule.
Annual payments are expected to
peak in the early years and
then gradually decline as
obligations are repaid.
Assuming a full draw of
the 48.3 million total debt
services anticipated at 56.8
million over the life of
the agreement, the proposed
agreement establishes a
financing agreement between
the city as a lessee and
JPMorgan as a lessor.
The bank was selected through a
competitive procurement
process.
The agreement provides funding
availability over a 15 month
acquisition period that is
expected to span from
approximately SEPTEMBER of 2026
through DECEMBER of 2027.
The city MAY draw only
the funds it needs and is under
no obligation to utilize
the full authorized amount.
Any unused capacity MAY also be
available to finance additional
eligible equipment and vehicles
if needed.
The interest rates will be
fixed at closing and financing
will only proceed if rate
remains below the established
ceiling of 7%.
The city commits to budgeting
and appropriating annual lease
payments through the term.
An additional feature of this
agreement as the optional
escrow.
This allows the city to draw
down all or a portion of
the financing proceeds before
before vehicles or equipment
are actually delivered.
The escrow feature gives
the city additional flexibility
if there are delivery delays or
if market conditions make it
financially beneficial to fund
earlier.
As we wait for assets to arrive
since it's anticipated that
the city will be pay will pay
the vendors upon asset delivery
then reimburse itself through
the lease funding.
The city is required by
Treasury regulations to declare
its official intent to
reimburse itself during
the master lease agreement.
The ordinance contains language
satisfies this requirement.
>> As Josie mentioned this item
went to Budget and Government
Efficiency Committee and JUNE
17th.
After City council today
the first reading of
the ordinance the second
reading will be after
the summer recess and AUGUST
25th 2026.
With the execution of
the agreement in early
SEPTEMBER.
Thank you for your time and we
welcome any questions.
This concludes our
presentation.
>> All right.
Thank you for the work.
Thank you for the presentation.
And with that clerk please
proceed for public comment.
Thank you.
Council PRESIDENT If I can have
Maximillian Schmidt and then
allegedly Audra, you'll have
one minute the timer will be on
the screen.
>> Hi.
I spoke earlier about a
creative idea to do with these
214 vehicles amounting to $48
million.
I'm actually a victim of
whatever you want to call them
Modern day pagans, the occult
Freemasons that well actually
tried to make me crazy and even
suicidal or turned to drugs by
saying my thoughts out loud and
my creative idea is to have a
public service announcement
with these woke one of these
214 vehicles saying to people
that if you think that you're
crazy because people are saying
your thoughts out loud on that
pagan rituals have actually
existed before the time of
Christ giving people
the ability to be telepathic
and to even drive other members
of their community insane by
saying their thoughts out loud
You are not crazy.
You're being targeted under
point of order really quick
regarding the last item and
whether or not that community
meeting was something where
they were bringing forward this
item for the first time it
would require the notice.
So I think you guys need to see
if that was a community meeting
where they were bringing it
forward for the first time as
information than it technically
would need to be noticed 30
days prior.
So I think there's maybe a
technicality here that you guys
need to review to make sure
that you're doing this abiding
by the law because I don't
believe that you are And I
think that you were right but
that you need to look a little
bit deeper anyway.
So as far as this equipment and
these vehicles goes, I mean Jp
Morgan and Chase I mean has
connections to BlackRock.
I don't understand why, you
know, some billionaires were
concerned about and others were
not.
And when we're spending this
amount of money I mean when you
guys are getting all of these
electric vehicles and this new
type of infrastructure, it's
going to cost the people more
money and it doesn't really
save us money over time And nor
is it what happened with
the clock.
That's weird.
I'll keep taking it.
Keep going.
Okay.
Thanks anyway.
I was like I got more time.
A little fun was like I'm going
back in time.
This is so weird.
You guys are bummed but that we
need to be mindful of like how
much it's actually costing
whether these things are
beneficial to the environment
because if you really do your
research you can find that they
are actually detrimental not
only to the environment but
also to public health and
safety And we should be
concerned about giving money to
these entities that are engaged
in very nefarious things like
BlackRock and Vanguard which is
involved with Chase and Jp
Morgan.
Thank you.
I started off I'm a timer going
to those participating remotely
and you raised a point of order
and that's where your time was
And when you finish your point
of order then we started your
clock so you could speak to
the item itself.
Amanda if you can please unmute
we can hear you.
>> Please proceed.
Okay, perfect.
So I'm sitting here looking at
a slide from last year's budget
year where we had a I think it
was $158 million deficit Looks
like we budgeted 95 million for
medium heavy duty and 40
million for light duty.
Now sitting here listening that
we're going to finance another
48 million so at least more
city vehicles are road than
potholes.
Our streets are flooding.
If the foundation of my house
is leaking, I'm not going to go
out and finance a brand new
Camaro.
>> The people in the city are
sick to death of the financial
mismanagement the City Council
has displayed.
I promise you that we will be
auditing the out of each and
every single contract.
We trust you with our money
like we trust Bill Cosby
the poorest drinks Please vote
no to add to our deficit.
Please use the resources we
have already given you
responsibly and allocate our
taxes responsibly.
Thank you.
Thank you, Larry Ackerman If
you can please unmute I will be
open.
I didn't say anything in this
diagram about electrical
vehicle use.
Good luck in that pursuit and
how we are addressing
the future of electric battery
use What that what a good safe
electric battery means for our
future.
We make good early steps to
make that conversation more
clear.
Good luck in those continued
efforts for our fleet service
and for our communities.
>> Thank you.
Thank you Tony.
If you can please unmute.
Yes, I wanted to agree with
the sentiments that were spoken
earlier by a couple of
the constituents namely with
Amanda and namely with Audra.
And I want to say any time that
Audra tells a member of city
Council that you're doing
something right that should
really tell you something.
And Henry Foster, you are
definitely doing something
right.
As well as Shawn Ella Rivera,
thank you both for routinely
being some of the only too
courageous enough to take a
bold stance when it comes to a
principled stance when it comes
to doing things the right tone
and the wrong way.
Can you speak to the item?
Audra had a point of order on
which is why we keep her that
time But speak to the item
please.
>> Sure.
I don't understand why we're
necessarily going with Morgan
as the ones that are financing
this project.
I would love to see us actually
financing with someone
differently If we can do like
an independent credit union or
someone local.
Jp Union is, you know, known
for definitely being out of
code of conduct and have all
kinds of lawsuits against them
for various reasons.
Thank you.
And your final speaker with our
hand raised at the moment,
please unmute Verde.
Can you hear me?
Yes.
Please proceed.
So from my understanding they
want a 48.3 million but
the city to go into debt for
these vehicles which would be
including sd pd meaning.
So we're just adding on to that
and going into debt.
Also if this does pass,
the ordinance gives the mayor
or the city the ceo and cfo
authority to change the list
finance assets without
returning to council or
approval.
I think that's an issue.
I don't understand how we're
taking all of this money and
investing in military police
infrastructure.
I just can't understand it.
Thank you.
Thank you for that input.
Public comment on this item.
>> All right.
Thank you, City Clerk.
Well I'll turn over to council
members for questions.
Comments Entertain a motion.
>> We'll start with
Councilmember Moreno.
Thank you and thank you for
your presentation.
I've become uneasy with
the structure by which the city
purchases and then leases
vehicles.
The city will initially fund
the cost of the vehicles and
equipment purchases and then
reimburse itself through lease
financing.
This is similar to buying a
washer with cash and then
taking out a loan afterward to
reimburse yourself.
In essence replacing an upfront
cash payment with a debt that
must be paid over time with
interest.
Now consistent with those
concerns I do not I did not
support last year's cooperative
procurement contract for
the purchase of various
vehicles and equipment.
I also didn't support last
year's master lease agreement
to finance general fund
vehicles and equipment.
Now I do understand that this
is the way the city has
purchased vehicles in recent
years and I'm simply
uncomfortable with how the city
is perpetually issuing debt to
fund vehicles and equipment for
our fleet.
So I will not be supporting
this item before us today.
Thank you.
All right.
Thank you, Councilmember Moreno
.
Does our councilmember Manuel
thank you for the presentation
and you know, I wish that we
had done this with
the community presentation that
was heard a budget government
efficiency committee on
the cost benefit analysis of
whether to rent versus buy a
different equipment.
I do with my staff but I think
it would have been very helpful
to see the side by side.
What I have a couple of
questions about you know
the question that they're asked
about in addition to vehicles
is there requirement here to be
purchased or utilize certain
conditions vehicles or that it
is just the financing and
the list to be able to separate
this item with just
the financing?
Okay.
So then how are we going to
track who buys what and what
it's used for Because
the rental contract got
completely out of control and
I'm nervous for this one now to
get it.
We have Gina Davis from General
Services available to answer
this question.
Good afternoon Councilmember
Bond.
This is from the General
Services Department.
I'm list of vehicles that we
produced to put together in
the financing agreement.
These were vehicles that were
purchased prior to the cda.
So these are vehicles that were
maybe purchased in the last 2
or 3 years that will be
arriving and eligible for
financing.
In terms of the these we do
have 20 EVs on order.
That are set to arise in
the next year or two.
But we are carefully watching
the financial constraints that
you bring.
They tend to be more expensive
than combustible engine
vehicles and their market
availability is also recently
constrained.
I hope that answers your
question.
Okay.
So is the list of vehicles in
the stack of materials the list
of vehicles I can produce for
you The list of vehicles that
we think will come in during
this financing period.
Again, these were purchased and
we believe that they will arise
during this financing period.
They could arise later.
In which case will they would
get on to the next master lease
agreement.
But I'm happy to produce what
we believe will will arrived in
this financing period.
Yeah, I think that would have
been helpful when we voted on
the financing to have a list of
what we're buying next to.
I know that these that
the purchases were made a while
ago because we don't pay for
them to be able to drive,
correct?
Right.
But it would have been helpful
to have that list matching up
with this item so we'd have to
go digging for it.
>> Okay.
Thank you for that feedback
Councilmember.
We did make an attempt to
summarize So just in terms of
the types of vehicles and also
the way this agreement is set
up, we do have the flexibility
to as Gina do did if these
specific vehicles don't come in
within that position period we
have the ability if there's
some other firetruck for
instance that comes in within
that 15 month period we have
the ability to finance that.
So I but I would take
the feedback but also we want
to be careful not to indicate
that this action is not
authorizing the vehicles
specifically that are being
financed.
This is just a financing
agreement in a certain amount
not to exceed a certain amount
.
Okay.
Then what was the point of
the study showing which
vehicles were cheaper to rent
versus which were cheaper to
buy?
Are we comparing the vehicles
coming in to that study which
was very helpful?
Would it not be heard Today we
heard the Budget and Efficiency
Committee.
So if I if I could if I could
try and answer that question.
Councilmember Bond.
So the cda that you heard at
Budget Committee recently,
those were that's a practice
that we are going to embark
upon for our purchases in
the future.
But again, as Jose noted, these
the vehicles that are being
financed as part of the 48.3
million are our vehicles that
we already ordered.
So we didn't have an
opportunity to take a look at
the cost benefit analysis for
these specific vehicles.
But we will moving forward.
Okay.
All right.
I mean that's unfortunate but
I'm glad we are having a study
to see which is cheaper to rent
or buy for individual vehicle.
I have a finance question and I
have a contract in question So
with the interest rate it
the current Fed interest rate
right now on 3.5 5.75%.
Yes Councilmember these rates
are these interest rates are
derived from the Fed interest
rates and they speak to
the different terms of
the financing for these
vehicles.
So it's not exactly the same as
the Fed interest rate.
It's not exactly the same as
the federal funds rate.
Yeah, understood.
But 7% is double the Fed
interest rate right now.
So it's as we this wouldn't go
through but an even 6.9% I mean
that's ridiculous.
I wouldn't take a loan out for
that given the interest rate in
the three I can't remember that
is a not to exceed that we have
included in the ordinance it's
yes it's unlikely currently as
shown in the staff report,
the interest rates are ranging
between 3.5 and 4%.
That's what we are seeing
currently and I don't expect it
to go up in the next 15 month
period up to the 7%.
But that's just legal not to
exceed for California state law
is 12%.
So we wanted to at least rein
it in and not just leave that
default rate maximum rate but
the current expectation your
rate is not expected to be 10%.
So why didn't you just put in
the contract that it wouldn't
be above a point of
the interest rate the Fed
interest rate comes from above
us In the past six months with
all the market volatility
the interest rates have moved
significantly and if we cap
the interest rate at say 4%
that could prevent us from
the financing when the vehicles
come in.
So it would be my
recommendation to give at least
some buffer in case interest
rates move up to 35%.
We do have the ability under
this contract to after a year
to refund it at a lower
interest rate but it would
still give us the flexibility
to finance the vehicles as they
come in because the alternative
to not financing the vehicles
when they come in is to pay
cash as noted, the vehicles
have already been ordered and
when they come we have to pay
for them.
So if if we are constrained
severely constrained under this
financing agreement,
the alternative would be to
just pay cash.
So my question wasn't to set
the value at 4%.
My question is why don't I put
it in the could I hear you on
the interest rates are all over
the place because Washington dc
is totally nuts right now But I
just I feel like this bank
could be taking advantage of us
7% too much.
Why would the contract say
the interest rate will be set
within 1% whatever the Fed
interest rate is?
That's what I'm saying.
That will give you
the flexibility I keep with
the California state law as 12%
That is it seems like we
shouldn't be saying that
textually on interest So
council member maybe I can
clarify how the interest rate
is calculated.
The 7% is not provided to us by
the bank.
What is provided to us in
the bank's response to our rfp
is an index In this case it's
what's called the sofr which is
the secured overnight financing
rate.
So for as shown in the staff
report for example they give us
an index in this case the sofr
and it's pegged to that index.
So as of today or as of last
month when we wrote the staff
report based on the index it
was the 3.5%.
So fast forward six months If
there's some movement in
the index we MAY have an
effective interest rate of even
as low as 3% or it could be 4%.
It's tough recommendation to to
provide some of some safety net
for our fiscal planning that we
if the interest rate and again
it's not at once we execute
this it's not really what
the bank would say or do Right
If the market interest rates if
the sofr index goes up
significantly, we could have an
effective interest rate of 6%
or 6.5% And so it staff
recommendation that if interest
rates go up that significantly
that we would not be using this
financing tool and would try to
find alternatives effectively.
So the 7% is not the bank's
proposal.
Got it.
Okay.
I still think we could we
should capital lot lower than
that.
I thank you for clarifying that
.
My last question is the harp
rental contract was absolutely
out of control in inappropriate
in and a model of how the city
shouldn't be spending money on
authorized So what are we doing
to prevent that from happening
again so I don't know what did
you know Again you are muted.
>> Oh, apologies.
Thank you for your question
Councilmember Bond wilpert
General Services along with
the purchasing and contracting
department are reviewing every
single purchase requisition and
that is coming through to
request rentals through part I
believed that a little bit of
that was talked about during
budget committee when the cba
was presented to the committee.
So we are monitoring that very
closely in partnership with
purchasing and contracting.
But I would defer to Claudio
Barcus for more details on on
monitoring that contract And
for all of you here, I don't
believe she's here today.
All right.
Thank you.
Those are all my questions.
>> All right.
Thank you.
Council member panel part We'll
go next to Councilmember
Foster.
Yes.
Thank you, Council PRESIDENT.
Thank you for the presentation.
I do understand that, you know
this is I must say pretty hurt
in the discussion we're having.
These were already in the queue
already ordered fabrication
moving forward and now which is
expecting I guess delivery of
set vehicles I do share in
the concern I'm actually even a
little more troubled in regards
to staff coming up with the 7%
I guess I'll call it a
contingency because you are
the ones who make that
determination as to what is
acceptable and what's not.
And so I think it's signaling
that 87% increase is acceptable
which I think is creating
somewhat of the discomfort.
So I guess I would ask the city
attorney's in regards to what I
can find in regards to
the interest rates which as
the ordinance authorization
permits rates up to 7%.
Can we pull that back in and
bring that number back down to
the 4.14% or to do it in I
don't know what it gets us If
we say 1% over the feds deal to
move this forward And then if
there's anything that happens
you can provide us with a
written you know, provide
council PRESIDENT Or in
the members a written
memorandum if there's some type
of immediate action that we
need to do is that the council
get something docketed or
directed off if it's going to
impede said authorization.
I would ask Deputy City
Attorney Marguerite Minard if
she has an answer to that
question as she sits here today
or if that's something that we
would need to look into
further.
Thank you for the question,
Councilmember Yes, I can
definitely look at that further
and get back to you but the if
you if you're just asking about
changing the capping
the interest rate in ordinance
that can be done that can be
done today or do we need to
bring the item back?
I don't see any legal issues
with doing that today but I
would want to defer to staff
about other issues that that
might bring up with
the contract.
>> Councilmember if I could
jump in a little bit there, I
think it's probably within this
councilor and the front of
the city attorney obviously and
whether or not it is but to set
a cap on the interest rate for
this.
That said, I do think that it's
worth having some additional
flexibility beyond just that 4%
as you've heard from Jose.
That's secured overnight rates.
They can vary.
They can go up and down pretty
significantly.
The 7% kind of cap that you
have right now is the point at
which your debt management
staff and I think appropriately
telling you that's the point
where we will try to find
another mechanism for financing
these vehicle purchases.
Those payments are coming down
when the vehicles are delivered
period.
The 7% is really more for our
own internal planning that I
think it is signaling a bank
the interest rates that they
can charge off our standard
overnight rate of 3.5% and
the bank is saying we're going
to charge you 6.5%.
I suspect that you would also
hear the city saying no you're
not.
Our contract is actually tied
to looking at the standard
overnight financing rate.
But honestly I'm happy to pitch
that back over to
the Department of Finance And
generally if you wanted to add
anything more I'm sorry and I
appreciate that Charles, but I
think conversation that's been
ahead of the day is is just
making sure we have some fiscal
responsibility And I think any
I'm not going to sign on
the car note at 7% I'll take
the trolley so I think that's
the I think that's the concern
that you're having now How do
we make sure we have
accountability and control?
Not so much a the bank
understands this but it's a
double edged sword.
We're giving staff the ability
to go as high as 7% which you
know water follows the least
the path of least resistance
with the caveat that those
vehicles are already ordered
and pending delivery.
Right.
So what does that have to do
with the interest rate vehicles
need to be paid for that?
What does it have to do with
the interest rate?
Well, first of all, dollars
need to go out the door when
the vehicle for the lever to so
paying cash up front We haven't
budgeted on an ongoing basis to
be paying for for paying for
vehicles in cash on an ongoing
basis which means without that
money we cannot reimburse
ourselves for that money which
means that there are other
vehicle purchases or other
services that would have to be
pulled back at that point.
So I'm not I'm not disputing
that.
I'm just simply asking
the question what does
the purchase price have to do
with the interest rate If you
already know your fire engines
are already going to be at 7%?
Is that what we're saying or
our our fancy gtx Mustangs are
going to be at 7%.
What are we I'm lost Cost of
the vehicles cost of
the vehicle.
We're talking about an interest
rate councilmember if I MAY
clarify logistically since for
an example of one fire truck
that's say 5 million if it were
supposed to be financed We have
because it's going to be
financed We have not budgeted
the 5 million to be paid out to
the vendor.
We have only budgeted
the interest cost of
the 250,000 And as an example
I'm just this is not hard
numbers say if the 250,000 was
based on a 3.5% interest rate
and the interest rate goes up
to 7%, the interest cost will
go up.
But we if if this Mattingly's
was capped at 4%, we would not
have the ability we would have
to come up with 5 million to
pay in this fiscal year which
is not in the budget.
So that's the practical
consequence And just as staff
in terms of the recommendation
it was it is a balancing act If
we have this interest capped at
12% we we understand that
that's you know, we are we are
communicating that we would
finance this even if
the interest rate rates were
11.9.
But on the other side we are
also trying to predict
the situation of having to pay
cash and not have a financing
in place.
So it's the balancing between
the two.
>> I understand.
So my to what you are
indicating you have 7% in
the budget across the board
The up at this point they are
all projections because this is
all subject to appropriations
currently based on this
timeline These lease payments
will most likely or I'm pretty
sure that it's scheduled to
trigger only from fiscal year
28.
These would not have an impact
on fiscal 27.
>> Okay.
Yes.
So that that is so I, I also as
I indicated before, that really
just gives us time to to find
another mechanism or if we are
forced to pay if the market is
so crazy on one day and that we
are forced to lock in at say
6.9% we MAY be we MAY be forced
to pay that lease payment in
fiscal 28 but that will give us
time to refinance, find other
mechanisms so that that's not
we are not locked in for
the remaining lease.
So this gives us that option.
Okay.
I appreciate that.
I was trying to get you there a
pause and turn it over to
the next council.
Thank you.
All right.
Councilmember Foster will go to
next to Councilmember Ella
Rivera and I did I was I was We
still have a motion right now.
A motion?
Yeah.
Okay So what I want to say
thank you to my colleagues for
raising the questions that were
asked.
I think it's a bunch of things
that are going on here at once.
So we have concerns about
the way that the city has
approached leasing versus
purchasing and the lack of a
strategy there.
The additional cost, the big
picture that that has meant for
the city and I'll just say that
in my mind it's a classic
example of the superficial way
that the city approached fiscal
conservatism or responsibility
in previous eras saving a
dollar Now that will end up
costing us $10 or $20 even more
down the road.
I also understand that, you
know, these are vehicles that
have been purchased.
I do.
I think And Charles, maybe you
can speak to this this is more
of a forward looking question.
This comes comes at us
piecemeal And as a result I
think as it is the council by
the end of that process it it's
it's like it's more difficult
to make the decision and that's
not good for anyone involved.
And so I'm wondering if you can
if you have ideas about ways
where these sort of items are
or actions I should say are
brought to us more holistic
early is that is that feasible
in your mind in some ways
potentially yes.
Moving forward, I do want to
acknowledge the headwinds of
both debt management and fleet
have been facing over the last
several years.
First you go back 4 or 5 years
and sorry maybe a few more
years than that and the city
did actually switch its
approach from cash funding
the purchase of vehicles to
essentially debt funding
the purchasing vehicles And I
while this is a master lease
agreement, I want to be clear
This is the financing for
vehicles that are being
purchased, right?
>> So that moves things to kind
of the financing being in
arrears.
We do have where we should also
recognize that over the last
three years the time difference
between when an order was put
in and when a vehicle was
delivered grew pretty
significantly and now it's
starting to shrink again.
So we are dealing with some
larger kind of contextual
headwinds that would have made
that more difficult over
the last several years.
That said, is there an
opportunity to look at vehicle
purchases at the same time that
we're looking at financing?
I guess potentially you know,
usually we will be looking at
the needs for additional
vehicles when we are going
through the budget process and
they can also come in on an ad
hoc basis as well tying that to
a financing mechanism I suppose
is fine but at some point you
are still going to have to have
in all likelihood an annual
master lease agreement if we're
going to continue debt
financing vehicle purchases
it's going to come for you and
essentially loop all of those
together.
There is both value in being
able to say these are the exact
vehicles we want to purchase so
that you can say this is what
this debt will fund And then
there's also real value in what
you heard the Department of
Finance say We want some
additional flexibility because
delivery dates change need
change.
Our order dates change as well.
So is there a way to
consolidate these and have a
more holistic discussion Tend
to Typically yes.
But I don't know if you are
able to ever do everything in
just one day or in one action
for sure and then theoretically
the flexibility is still
regulated by the budget and
what we've budgeted for.
But this is where it gets a
little bit squishy Even in my
mind we can budget for amounts
total amounts but there's still
a lot of flexibility for
the mayor within those amounts
And and so the constraints
within an action like this do
become a little bit more
important or I, I think that
maybe kind of bringing in a
separate line of conversation
because the execution of
the budget where there are
there's maybe more flexibility
on the mayor side and there
should be and then there's just
the actual financing of
vehicles not being presented to
you And my mind is really just
the financing side.
So totally I think what I'm
going with that is language
that speaks to the mayor's
authority or the ceo's
authority the flexibility
that's there the some of
the guardrails that we would
like to think are applied
through the budget.
>> They're there in terms of
totals and not necessarily some
of the specifics.
I think what I'm what I'm
getting at is I think all of
these things are running
together and what we have is a
mess for dogs to navigate right
now.
>> So kind of building off
the questions that my
colleagues asked there's is
there a sweet spot here that
doesn't feel like you'd be
having like your hands would be
tied in a way that would be
impractical but also address
the council's concerns about
this being not a blank check
but a check with with more with
much more latitude And it feels
like we're prepared to give
consumer Thank you for that
question.
If I could just reframe
the discussion a little bit
when we're looking at
the interest rate that staff is
is providing in terms of
whether we have 4% or 7% not to
oversimplify but the interest
rate is really the price of
money.
Right?
And it depends on the economy
is doing If for example during
covid the interest rates went
up significantly really
significantly But normally
they'll be hovering around that
4% that we've been talking
about If there's high inflation
interest rates will go up But
we will also benefit from that
when we invest in our pool.
So this is all economically,
you know, driven by
the economics So it's not I
mean the 7% is just a guardrail
to make sure that to the extent
things really go out of whack
that there is an opportunity
for us to basically pull out
from from this agreement.
Right.
So but I guess from listening
to my colleagues, we want a
guardrail And that seems to be
that feeling is that
the guardrails are too wide and
should be brought in a bit
because 7% is is not a number
that we're comfortable with
recognize And again that this
has been budgeted for These
vehicles have been purchased
all all of those things remain
a fact And I think what I'm
hearing my colleague say is
there's a certain point at
which the interest rate would
be so high then it'd be worth
us stepping back for a second
and saying is to do we just
want to pay cash and then deal
with the consequence of that
come with that.
That MAY not be realistic and a
decision that we would wrestle
with and ultimately come to
the conclusion that 7% is not
something that we like but it's
better than the alternatives.
But it doesn't sound like 7% is
a place where the council's
comfortable going today.
So where's the sweet spot again
between where we think it's
going to be the anticipated
3.91 to 4.14 If I'm reading
that correctly and the 7% which
sounds like it's too high in
the eyes of my colleagues and I
completely understand why.
>> Understood.
And maybe one way to look at
this would be historically for
these types of interest rates
we could provide you with what
that can look like because I
would assume that for the most
part they've been around that
4% 5% I don't And if you have
that off the top of your head
or I would say that is correct
in my recollection I don't
think under this equipment and
vehicle financing programs we
have executed a lease that has
had an interest rate of more
than 5% as my recollection as
our recommendation.
>> I think if you dial back a
few years I think this cap was
6% in the past two years when
we saw the interest rate move
in the upward direction we
bumped this up.
I mean sitting here today I
would say I think I would be
reasonably comfortable if we
pushed us down back to 6%.
Okay.
>> And just for the record,
that previous speaker was
Rolonda Shoval, the chief
financial officer.
I appreciate that that that's
helpful because nothing would
prevent you if we if if we got
to a place where 6% was no
longer realistic for whatever
reason you could come back and
ask for authority above that or
no it would Yes, we could It's
it's approved this item because
of the length of the financing
It is an ordinance So any
amendment would be I mean I
should let the city attorney
speak to this Sorry.
Yes that's true.
You could come back and ask
the council to approve a higher
interest rate but it would be
an ordinance.
Okay.
So you need and then all
the time is associated with
that.
But it's not it's not as easy
as flipping a switch.
Yeah.
Okay.
Well just to get us started in
terms of a motion council
PRESIDENT, if I could, we'll
just kind of again as a
starting point staff
recommendation with
the reduction of the interest
rate from the 7% that it's
currently capped out to 6% and
open to amendments from from my
colleagues.
But just so we have a motion to
work from, the last thing I'll
say is I don't particularly
like doing business with big
banks.
I use a credit union $48.3
million and there's a certain
like world we only have so many
competitive options right in
the city has a process that
requires us to choose best
option from an interest rate
perspective, right?
This was what it was that that
was correct.
And until we get to a place
where you know, we've got a a
public bank or something along
those lines, we're going to
continue to have limited
options for financing at this
amount.
That concludes our motion
Council PRESIDENT Hopefully
that doesn't create more havoc.
All right.
And just as a clarification
that is amending the 7% that is
listed in paragraph 2.1 of
the master lease agreement for
.
So Council PRESIDENT Pro Tem
Lee So we do have a motion by
council member Eli Rivera and
we'll go to you Council
PRESIDENT Pro Tem Thank you
Council PRESIDENT Thank you to
the Department of Finance for
giving this presentation to our
cfo MR. Shirvell for coming up
here to answer a couple of
questions as well.
I appreciate my colleague's
commentary in terms of process
,we certainly had the full
discussion or at least
the informational item at
committee talking about
the benefits of leasing versus
buying.
I think for me to be frank, I
think where we stand today is
this is really a financing
mechanism that is part of our
need to conduct business as a
city for vehicles that we've
already purchased as well and
have an impact on this fiscal
year based on what we've heard.
And so I, I feel like we're
getting into the weeds on on
where that the cap of an
interest rate percentage is
knowing that that's not where
it stands at the moment but
that the flexibility is needed
for us to conduct this business
and if we were ever to exceed
one of the guardrails you know
whether 6% or 7% is
the appropriate level, it just
feels like we're we're getting
a little far into that.
If it rises above 6% it's going
to be because interest rates
across the country have risen
that heavily And we're we're
going to be dealing with a
bigger problem at that point,
which is what do we do with
vehicles that have been ordered
and whether we have
the financing capacity to
complete those purchases as
intended.
I think one of the big
differences of ensuring that we
at least have the master lease
agreement in place is that we
know we're going to be leasing
based on the vehicles that we
have already ordered and
the change ends up being much
smaller When you're talking a
percent over over a long scale
of time for leasing vehicles
versus if tomorrow we said
we're not going to be leasing,
we're now needing to purchase
these vehicles.
The exact problem comes where
next year we're not going to
have the ability to appropriate
those funds to make those
purchases given we already know
what financial position we're
going to be in next year.
So I think this lease versus
buy conversation is going to be
really important as we look to
the future and what the city
can choose to do when we have
more financial capacity to make
those choices.
But it does feel like we're a
little bit constrained as we
stand right now.
So I'm fully comfortable with
leaving it where the guardrail
was at 7% If the Department of
Finance feels like 6% as a as a
guardrail is sufficient as
well.
Also comfortable with that.
I also just don't want to see
us coming back here in a year
because let's just say
the federal administration does
something crazy and interest
rates go up significantly and
now the city cannot conduct its
business in paying for
the vehicles that we've already
committed to.
I'm not I'm just not sure what
benefit that gives us all other
than the chance to complain
that that's happened And yet
we're still going to have to
prove either that higher
interest rate capacity or
choose a completely different
way to to pay for vehicles
which doesn't seem to do us any
favors.
So I will second the motion
again if there's any openness
to pushing that back up to
the staff's recommendation.
I'm fully comfortable with that
as well.
But again looked at to look to
our colleagues to figure out
what to do next.
>> Thank you.
All right.
So with that we have a motion
by council member Ella Rivera
and second camera by Council
PRESIDENT Pro Tem Lee with
the staff recommendation except
to amend the.
They're going to put it up on
the screen but the maximum rate
from seven down to six and
they'll put that language up
much better than I said that.
So before we go back to
Councilmember Problem Walbert,
I do want to ask a question
directly.
This is a two party agreement
The city and the lessor.
Is there any issue with
changing that number?
I hope not.
I do not believe there'll be an
issue but that is something I
would need to circle back with
the bank.
Okay.
Because it is actually a limit
both ways, right?
The lessee is not permitted and
the lesser does not required to
exceed that 7%.
Correct.
Okay.
So you might be back here a
little bit sooner.
Is that what you're suggesting
If the lessor is not happy with
that, Yeah, we would need to
provide clarification at
the second reading.
Okay.
Yeah I'll have to revisit what
the process would be.
>> Okay.
And then just real quickly
because we've spent a lot of
time on this you said if
the interest rates do go up,
start approaching that
guardrail, whatever that
guardrail is, you have
alternatives.
Are those given all the things
the cities engaged in realistic
alternatives if this if we
can't use this mechanism we
would have to reissue an rfp.
Some of the alternatives would
be frankly bond finance these
vehicles.
Okay.
>> Yes, I appreciate you're
willing to do that but I think
I also realize that there are
actually very limited
alternatives.
So all right.
So we do have a motion in a
second by council PRESIDENT Pro
Tem Lee that is now up on
the screen and will go back to
council member Yvonne Wolpert.
Thank you and thank you for
engaging in this discussion.
I think it's actually very
important because I'm sick and
tired of the city getting
ripped off and a lot of public
callers called in here asking
us to use taxpayer money
wisely.
Are we not purchasing fire
trucks possibly with this
financing or any other large
equipment vehicle trucks?
I know that we are, yeah.
So on APRIL 6 to 2026 our very
own city attorney Heather
Ferber released a press release
saying City of San Diego sues
fire truck manufacturers for
antitrust violations and
overcharging the taxpayers.
The price of these vehicles was
going up because they saw
the city with the customer and
the overcharges every time and
the difference between 3%
interest and 7% in interest
could be millions of taxpayer
dollars.
And so what I'm asking for is
not a set interest rate.
What I'm asking for is making
sure the city is paying an
interest rate that any other
market buyer would pay And
we're not getting ripped off.
That is simply what I'm asking
for.
And so in the contract I want
to know that the city is going
to pay the standard overnight
financing rate at the time And
is that in the contract or now
I see why you would say over 7%
we would no longer finance it,
put it in the city's best
interest and to use cash or
other mechanisms.
That is the fiscal decisions
we're making in the contract.
I want to know we're not being
ripped off even 5% if the if
the so first 3.5% is a rip off.
So what contractual obligation
do we have to make sure we're
paying the interest rate any
other person would pay?
That is my question.
I'm not yelling at you.
I'm so sorry.
It's not your fault.
I just the city gets ripped off
all the time and we need to
protect ourselves.
So what is in the contract
saying we will pay the standard
overnight rate at the time of
the issuance?
Thank you for the question,
Councilmember.
So we we issued a request for
proposal So this was a
competitive bid that we
received.
There are very limited banks
that are in this business.
We received two proposals and
this was the more competitive
proposal which we picked.
The interest rate is not pegged
to the federal funds rate
directly.
It is pegged as explained
earlier to the secured
overnight financing rate which
is based on the Fed rate which
is based on the Fed rate.
So that is the rate that banks
use for this particular
mechanism.
So both the banks that offered
that was the index that this
gets peg to and for each of
the financing.
So some of the smaller vehicles
are financed over a shorter
term So there's a different
index.
So it's based on the term of
the vehicles and I believe that
these are competitive rates If
we compare our recently priced
bonds for three years.
So these are shorter term
financing So they are slightly
lower And based on where
the yield curve is, I believe
these are competitive rates.
I agree.
But why What guarantees we get
them?
You're saying we would go up to
7%?
I'm happy I can stop now
The answer is I don't think
there is something in
the contract protecting
the city so I'm not going to
vote for this But this is a
conversation we need to be
having because we're seeing
that we're suing the companies.
We're buying these trucks from
for overcharging us because
we're a city The people rip us
off all the time and taxpayer
money shouldn't be used to
paying the pockets of companies
who would overcharge us just
because of our government.
So thank you.
I'm happy to have these
conversations offline but I do
think we should have better
conversations about how we lock
our contractual protections in
when we purchase things.
>> Councilor if I can just add
there are terms in the contract
that refer to an equipment
lease race that is tied to what
is defined as an index rate.
The index rate is actually
defined as a percentage of that
standard overnight rate plus a
spread percentage.
So there are terms in
the contract associated with
that.
I saw that in the definitions
portion.
I didn't see that that we get
that rate I think like an
attachment of like within ten
days of a vehicle purchase But
it it should be in there.
All right Thank you Council
member of I'm All for it We'll
go next to Councilmember
Whitman Thank you Council
PRESIDENT So leaving it at 7%
or reducing it to 6% there's no
difference in terms of a
competitive advantage or
disadvantage for the city in
terms of negotiating with
the bank because there's no
negotiation with the bank going
forward at all.
It's all formulaic going
forward at this point.
Am I correct about that?
That is correct.
Once the agreement is executed
it's just purely based on a
formula and the interest rate
those in the market based
interest rate.
So whether we set this at 6% or
whether we set it at 7% or
whether we use the state 12%,
it's all based on a formula
based on the federal rates at
the time.
That is correct In which case
as I'm understanding it,
reducing it to 6% simply
complicates the city's position
In the event that the federal
rate goes higher.
That is correct.
We would have to come back to
city council for an amendment.
Charles Our independent budget
analyst MR. Monica it seems to
me like the simpler thing to do
would be to leave it at 7%
since there's not really a
discretionary element to it
going forward.
>> Well I would I will burden
you with that.
I will ask the maker of
the motion because I would I'm
comfortable with 7% at this
point.
I guess Would it be your
preference that I make a
substitute motion or would you
prefer to leave your motion,
let your motion stand and I
vote?
Some of us would vote no on it
.
How would you what would you be
your preference on that or do
you have a preference?
Yeah.
I mean the preference is to
keep the business of the city
moving in a way that
the council is comfortable
with.
We need six votes.
>> We need six votes on this
vote So I'm okay.
>> I'll make a substitute
motion if it I don't see what
happens.
I'll make a substitute.
I will say that yes, I think
you're 100% right.
It would be simpler And what I
was trying to account for is
the trade off in the simplicity
with council at least six
members of the council being
comfortable that if if
the interest rates started to
creep higher and higher and
higher that the council would
have an opportunity to reflect
on what that means before it
could jump to 7%.
So there is an additional step
that that would require staff
to make if we ended up in that
situation.
But again it's it's with an eye
on the six votes necessary in
order to get us the six votes
that we need in order for us to
move forward with this which I
do think we need to do And
trying to find a place of
consensus here.
>> Okay.
I appreciate your driving
towards consensus and I don't
know exactly where this will
lead but I'll go ahead and make
a substitute motion to stick
with the original staff
recommendation If we get
the six votes great.
If not, obviously we'll
probably go back to what you're
suggesting So I'll make a
substitute motion to stick with
the original staff
recommendation or we have a
substitute motions You've
referred back to the staff
recommendation and Council
PRESIDENT Pro Tem Lee will
second that motion And I'm
going to go to Councilmember
mpo who has not yet spoken on
this item.
>> So thank you.
Thank you Council PRESIDENT
Thank you to my colleagues for
their questions and I
sympathize with where they're
going on us for staff We put
out a request for proposals for
this type of financing vehicle
and we got two responses.
>> You said yes, that is
correct.
When we put out that request
for proposals did we set
the ceiling in that request or
did it come or do we leave that
open ended?
We do not put a ceiling in
the request for proposals
because we we suggest an index
that is the market based
accepted index.
We put that in our request for
proposals.
>> Okay.
So what was the non accepted
proposals cap if this one was
at seven or the other one at
Council Member Again the cap is
not coming from the banks.
The banks in their responses
propose an index and a spread
to an index based on which
the interest rate is set.
That is staff recommendation
because if there was no cap it
would default to the cap under
the interest rate cap under
state law which I believe is
12%.
>> So I was confused about what
you're saying there.
Okay.
Well it seems that there's a
desire that we would follow
more attention into that
component so that or at least
have some attention paid to
that particular component of
the overall deal because we
have many councilmembers,
myself included wondering what
is the right level of place and
it seems that even if 7% but
biologically all before earlier
if something really strange
happens 7% might not even be
enough And we need to come back
to council to ask for something
even higher than that, correct?
>> That is correct.
Okay.
So it sounds like in the future
we need better guardrails.
I think at this moment that it
seems going forward what we
have is the substitute motion
from Councilmember Webber is
the right way to go and to be
able to make sure that
the tools we need as a city are
paid for and onward.
So I appreciate
the conversation we're going
here.
It seems like there's more of
an upstream problem or upstream
concern I should say rather
than the item that's directly
in front of us.
And so I really hope that we
focus on how to make
the overall process meet
the needs of the councilmembers
of the city as a whole.
So I'll support the motion in
front of us but also knowing
that we need to drive down
the cost of borrowing or at
least get the lowest rates we
possibly can to save every
dollar possible.
>> Thank you.
All right.
Thank you, Council member
Campbell.
We'll go back to council
PRESIDENT Pro Tem Lee Thank you
Council PRESIDENT I did offer
the second thank you council
member Whitburn for for this
though the way I look at this
is really just like any other
adjustable rate loan frankly.
I mean if we're going to pay
this from a personal standpoint
which most of them are based
off of the Federal Reserve rate
the indexed rate plus an amount
that is set in as I think
Charles confirmed the terms of
the agreement do set that rate.
So we are literally just going
to be moving up and down along
with what the federal rate ends
up being So that plus whatever
that spread is.
So again I do think it is it is
standardized to some degree
The guardrail is that if it
moves significantly for any
particular reason that we have
some chance to rethink how to
act upon that.
And I mean we'd also be in a
very difficult position if
rates moved that heavily
upwards.
So I just would note that So
that's why I'm comfortable with
where we are leaning and look
forward to seeing what
colleagues are or I think that
Council PRESIDENT Pro Tem Lee
we'll go back to Councilmember
Foster.
Oh yes, Thank you.
And I do understand the need
and the flexibility.
I think it's just a a manner of
ensuring that we have city
staff that is getting
essentially this is a policy
call.
What is that amount before you
say hey, no which right now
it's 7%.
That's the authority you're
asking for.
I think I would ask I will be
supportive but just I think
maybe if there's a way as we
start to say the highest we
probably paid is 5% if you look
historically through this
process.
That's right.
So maybe if it's something
where you see things moving up
to that 5% tile range or you
just send a memo across so we
can understand what's in front
of us where the rate is at
which a plan is moving forward
because it MAY impact you know,
you say 200 vehicles to where
now you've got to make a
decision on are you going to
come back to council, ask for
more authority over 7% or
whatever the case MAY be But at
least we kind of have a heads
up and understand if you just
fire off a memorandum and let
us know.
Fair enough.
>> Thank you.
Yes.
All right.
Think COUNCILMAN Foster MR.
Market, you have some closing
comments by council PRESIDENT
And then kind of debate whether
or not to bring this up and
actually consider Foster I
think your recommendation of a
mental notice is a good one
just because in the unfortunate
event that we get to some place
where this rate would end up
exceeding 7%, you hear staff
talk it out will be evaluated
if there's another approach to
take.
It's not just going to be this
master lease agreement on this
debt.
Financing of vehicles is going
to be more expensive every
other form of debt the city
could take out at that point is
also going to be more expensive
as well.
So I think the earlier there
was kind of a question are
there really any other
significant options if we're
looking at other forms of debt?
Probably not.
But there are flows up as well.
So if I were in the trouble I
just wanted to add one more
point.
The city has a very strong
credit rating and the interest
rates that we are getting
depending on what type of
competitive process we go
through, whether it be a bond
sale, the Tran that we just
issued Now these rates they're
low because the credit rating
of the city is low.
If interest rates go up we'll
still have a lower rate
compared to everyone else but
it will be a higher interest
rate.
So we're talking about the 7%
If we if we need to pay 7%
other cities that have a lower
rating, the city will probably
pay more than that And other
corporations pay and pay more
than that.
So it all depends on what
the market does And this just
wanted to reframe that a little
bit.
The interest that we're getting
around 4% that's what we're
getting now.
It all depends on the economy.
It all depends on the price of
money that is currently out
there.
Right.
The more inflation there is
the higher of interest rates.
We just want to make the point.
Thank you.
All right.
Thank you.
There's nobody else on
the lights.
We have a motion by council
member Woodburn, the second by
Council PRESIDENT Pro Tem Lee
to move the staff
recommendation.
>> clerk please call the roll.
I'm sorry At the voting system
please cast your vote.
Total member Campion Yes, thank
you.
That passes 7 to 2 with Council
Member Moreno Councilmember
Member Voting no Thank you
Council PRESIDENT All right
Thank you for the Clerk Thank
you to staff for a robust
conversation.
Thank you MR. Chavez for
showing up and adding MR.
Monica for adding your
perspective to the Council And
I appreciate my colleagues
digging in.
So with that clerk please
introduce item 203 Item 203 is
a Southwest Village specific
plan project number j0614791
and District eight This item is
not subject to the mayor's
veto.
The expected public comment
time is one minute per person
and we did receive a organized
presentation for this item.
Thank you Council PRESIDENT
That presentation is in person.
All right.
Thank you.
City Clerk Staff a chance to
settle with COUNCILMAN Moreno.
>> Did you want to make a
statement?
Yes.
I'm recusing myself from Agenda
item 2 or 3 Southwest Village
Specific plan Project number p
rj dash 061479.
I have a conflict of interest
because the project will have a
material financial interest on
residential property I own and
I will leave the dais and not
participate in the discussion
or in the vote.
Thank you.
All right.
Thank you, COUNCILMAN Moreno.
So I'll give you a minute to
leave the chambers.
All right.
I'm a fact All our staff to
introduce yourself and let us
know how much time you need for
your presentation.
15 minutes, please.
All right.
When you're ready.
Good afternoon, Council members
.
I'm Oscar Galvin's development
project manager with
Development Services
department.
And joining me is joining
principal planner with the city
Planning Department and Michael
Prince, assistant deputy
director.
The item before you is
the Southwest Village specific
specific plan project.
The 490 Project Acre project
site is generally bounded north
of the us Mexico international
border east of Interstate 85
south of State Route 95 and
west of the Central Village
Specific plan area within
the automaker Community plan
area.
The required approvals include
a subsequent environmental
impact report amendments to
the general plan and Otay Mesa
Community Plan the Southwest
Village specific plan a
rezoning best interactive map
type development permit hpi
Boundary Line Adjustment Road
Improvement Ordinance and Road
Improvement Resolution.
>> >> The project proposes 5130
homes 175,000ft of commercial
uses approximately 35 acres of
parks approximately 16 acres
for potential future school
uses 190 acres of surrounding
natural open space Connection
of Caliente Avenue offering
North-South access and
the connection to Buyer
Boulevard offering East West
access.
The specific plan area includes
approximately 70 owners
Driveway homes shown in blue
owns approximately 239 acres.
Otay Mesa llc shown in Orange
owns 55 acres.
The Hendler Trust shown intent
on the 20 acres The city of San
Diego shown in red owns 12
acres San Isidro Industrial
Park llc shown in green on 60
acres and other property owners
shown in purple owned
approximately 95 acres Since
2017 more than 30 many meetings
with land owners have occurred
On SEPTEMBER 13th, 2018 a
notice of application was
mailed to all property owners,
tenants and community planning
group within 300ft of
the development On MARCH 4th
2020 a publicly noticed your
scoping meeting was held at San
Ysidro High School.
Public review of the draft year
occurred between MAY 1st 2025
and JUNE 23rd 2025.
The MARCH Historical Resources
Board hearing made Planning
Commission hearing and today's
City Council hearing have been
publicly noticed for
the signing of municipal.
>> The Southwest Village
specific plan is being prepared
in accordance with the Otay
Mesa Community Plan adopted in
2014.
The Otay Mesa Community Plan
requires a specific plan for
the Southwest District of Otay
Mesa to implement the general
plan City of Villages Strategy
The Community plan requires
that the Southwest Village be
planned comprehensively through
a single contiguous specific
plan.
The plan must be privately
sponsored and developed
collaboratively with the city
The Otay Mesa community Plan
envisions Southwest Village as
a compact, walkable, transit
oriented village with
sustainable and efficient land
use.
The specific plan would address
design details for the village
core public spaces and provide
a complete multimodal
circulation system connected to
the broader Otay Mesa Network.
Tri Pointe Homes has prepared
the Southwest Village specific
plan to implement the Community
plan's vision and policy
direction within the Southwest
Village specific plan area.
The specific plan creates a
mixed use village that
implements the Otay Mesa
Community Plan and the city of
villages Strategy.
It lays out a balanced
framework for new homes, shops,
parks, schools and open space
to support a complete connected
community and allows up to 5130
new homes in a variety of
housing types consistent with
community plan policies.
A village core near the Buyer
Boulevard and County Avenue
would focus on higher density
mixed use development to
support transit and
walkability.
The plan also refines land use
designations to reflect site
constraints while protecting
about 200 acres of sensitive
habitat.
The specific plan would provide
the detailed policy and
regulatory framework to guide
cohesive development throughout
Southwest Village.
The specific plan creates a
connected multimodal mobility
network with a grid street
pattern, a potential transit
hub and safe walking and biking
routes.
Complete streets, trails and
bike paths link neighborhoods
to the village core parks,
schools and future transit
reducing reliance on driving
and supporting the city's
climate and mobility goals.
The plan refines street types
upgrades, bicycle routes and
coordinates with city and sand
bags.
Regional plans to improve
access along California Avenue
via Boulevard and throughout
the village.
The specific plan provides up
to 35 acres of parks and
recreation areas including two
neighborhood parks supported by
smaller parks, plazas, sales
and trails.
A value based recreation
standard ensures each planning
area delivers high quality
amenities as it develops.
Larger parks would be public
while smaller spaces would be
privately maintained with
public access parks and trails
connect homes, schools, open
space and the village core
including a nine acre park near
the core and a seven acre park
in the north.
A future school next to a
neighborhood park creates a
community hub and updated trail
connections link the village
The broader Otay Mesa system.
The specific plan preserves
about 200 acres or roughly 41%
of the area as permanent open
space protecting sensitive
habitats steep slopes and
landslide prone areas to
support needed infrastructure
like the Buyer Boulevard
extension.
The plan includes coordinated
habitat conservation
adjustments developed with
state and federal wildlife
agencies.
These changes would replace
affected lands with higher
value habitat resulting in a
net gain of about 14 acres of
major power.
The conserved areas form a
contiguous open system that
supports regional habitat
linkages, scenic views, trails
and natural buffers while
ensuring development avoid
sensitive biological resources.
The specific plan also outlines
for water, wastewater,
drainage, stormwater and
utility systems needed to
support development including
extension of offsite
infrastructure upgrades to
existing pump stations and to
new wastewater lift stations.
Infrastructure would be
installed with appropriate
setbacks from street trees and
designed to align with
the village's complete street
network.
The specific plan phasing
ensures that essential public
facilities such as parks and
key roadway segments like
the Buyer Boulevard connection
to San Ysidro are delivered in
step with new homes.
Schools are recognized as vital
community facilities with two
potential school sites included
a primary site and planning
area 16 and an optional
secondary site and planning
area seven subject to Santa
Sandra School District Needs
The plan provides clear phasing
thresholds for school site
acquisition and requires future
development to pay school
impact fees to support new
educational facilities.
Joint use park opportunities
are encouraged so that school
recreation areas can serve
the broader community during
non-school hours helping
integrate schools into
the village's public space and
recreation network.
Finally, the closest fire
station serving the specific
plan area include fire stations
29 and Fire Station 43
additionally fire station 49 as
planned approximately three
quarters of a mile north of
the specific plan area just
west of County Energy Avenue
along Otay Mesa Road.
The specific plan establishes
supplemental development
regulations that refine
the municipal code to guide
future development.
These standards address
setbacks height mixed use
design grading walls and
fences, brush management
trails, transportation
facilities and wildlife
crossings.
They also define recreation
requirements and allowable
alternative land uses providing
flexibility while maintaining
the plan's overall vision.
Together these regulations form
the implementation framework
that ensures all future
projects align with the plan's
land use mobility,
environmental and design goals
.
The specific plan also includes
a comprehensive rezone of
approximately 747 acres for
both properties within and
partially within the plan area
to apply new bass zones that
directly implement the land
uses within the specific plans
Land Use framework as part of
the specific plan properties
would be rezone from the air
112 that are Annex one room
three seven arm to five arm one
three over one to op one one
and the O.C. One one zones
The rezoning introduce
opportunities for a mix of
residential densities mixed use
areas schools, parks and open
space.
The Southwest Village specific
plan includes a coordinated
phasing program to ensure that
infrastructure utilities
drainage systems and
circulation improvements are
delivered in step with new
development improvements to
roads, water and sewer systems,
stormwater facilities and other
essential infrastructure would
be constructed as each planning
area moves forward.
>> Aligning upgrades with
actual growth paths can you
came back okay and make sure we
got at least five.
Sorry for the interruption.
A phasing summary outlines
the anticipated sequence of
land uses over time while still
allowing flexibility in how
individual development projects
proceed.
The first phase includes a
testing tentative map for 920
homes including 92 affordable
homes.
Setting the foundation for
early infrastructure and
community facilities.
>> The Phase one roads are
shown in this slide as a
requirement for item one.
Preston Tentative Map Buyer
Boulevard West shown in purple
will be constructed constructed
prior to the 700 dwelling unit
in Phase one.
Per the specific plan, other
planning areas will be subject
to future project level
analysis including as it
relates to Buyer Boulevard West
for necessary infrastructure,
public facilities and emergency
action access required at each
phase of development.
>> a subsequent air and a
mitigation monitoring and
reporting program were prepared
in accordance with section.
In addition, in addition secure
findings of fact and a
statement of overriding
considerations have been
prepared.
There are significant and
unavoidable impacts to land use
air quality historical
resources, human health, noise
traffic, utilities and tribal
cultural resources.
>> For Otay Mesa Community
Planning Group voted to
recommend approval of
the project.
The Planning Commission voted
to recommend approval of
the project.
Staff recommends approval of
the Southwest Village specific
Plan project.
>> Thank you.
All right.
Thank you for the presentation
Will now hear from
the applicant on the project.
I've been told that staff told
you 15 minutes so I guess I'll
honor the 15 minutes.
So do we have a representative
from the applicant?
>> Their time is now.
So introduce yourself for
the record.
And as I said you will have up
to 15 minutes for your
presentation.
Thank you.
Good afternoon.
City council members.
My name is Alan Kashani.
I'm with Tri Point Homes.
My title is director of Land
Entitlements and wanted to say
thank you to staff for getting
us to this significant
milestone.
I've been involved with this
project for a little over 20
years.
If we could go to the next
slide please just a little bit
about checkpoint homes were
formerly Part d homes We've
built in many of your districts
And the point we're trying to
make with this slide is we do
more than just building homes.
We build facilities.
We build fire stations.
We've provided fire trucks,
we've built parks, etc..
Next slide and we can move on
from this slide.
I'm going to try and move
through this presentation
quickly and Oscar covered this
one so we can go to the next
slide a little bit about this
slide is that we had a lot to
contend with in regards to
ownership although the purple
squares are one acre parcels
that were created in 1910 and
I'm going to get into that a
little bit more But the blue is
what tri pointe owns and of
that we're about 1500 to 2100
units.
So there'll be some discussion
I think about 700 units and
buyer being triggered at that.
But I wanted to mention we have
a lot of skin in the game to
see buyer done and see
the project through.
Next slide please.
Our planning effort was most
recently in well as a City
submittal made in 2016 when we
initiated a plan and amendment
we've been doing a subcommittee
that's an offshoot of the Otay
Mesa Planning Board to review
the land use plan and and work
through the project And then
after that we worked with
the wildlife agencies.
We also went to the Otay Mesa
Enhanced Infrastructure
Infrastructure Financing
District to talk about buyer
and getting funding for buyer
and they allocated some funds
about 6 million at the time for
design and construction and
buyer And and then also we went
to the Otay Mesa Planning Board
and received a unanimous
unanimous support.
And something else I wanted to
say about this slide is that we
had a project website Southwest
Village plan.Com and we're
particularly proud of that
outreach because we responded
to every single email acquire
inquiry during the life of our
planning effort And then we
went to Historical Resource
Board and Planning Commission
got the project approved.
Next slide please.
And this is just a summary
slide of by the numbers of all
the things we did 75 meetings,
20 subcommittee meetings,
mailers, website, etc. We can
we can go to the next slide.
Thanks Kevin.
Some constraints and Southwest
Village we had a landslide area
to reconcile from the general
plan which there was a lot of
area lost to the yellow and
then a vernal pool habitat
conservation plan went forward
in around 2018 and all
the orange area was lost And
then there's some parcels and
bright green where the city
acquired some land for
conservation that that also
affected the land plan as we
see it.
Let's go to the next slide and
I'll skip this one because
Oscar covered it But Buyer
Boulevard is particularly
tricky.
It's been in the community plan
since 1981 but somehow these
areas in yellow and light
fluorescent green became
conserved and wildlife
conservation banks were done
over those areas And the dashed
line represents where buyer is
going to go and we had to
thread the needle and could not
locate buyer anywhere else
because to the south was
landslide to the northwest
Moody Canyon which was
sensitive.
So this caused a lot of
negotiation with the wildlife
agencies.
Next slide And we had 27
meetings with them field
meetings, working meetings and
it was a long arduous process
But we came out the other end
Next slide with basically we
next to the road down from four
lanes to two lanes through open
space and then the wildlife
agencies required some Mesa top
replacement.
There was about four acres of
vernal pool habitat that we're
impacting and they required 75%
conservation in planning area
23 which MAY come up today.
So I have another slide to go
over that and then try point
had to kick in about 100 acres
of our land for conservation
And as part of the negotiation
and while we're at it we
incorporated an emergency
vehicle access route and baked
that into the plan as part of
the negotiation with them.
That's that's that's on Tri
Point's property and connecting
up to a road along the border
wall.
Next slide.
So they required the 9.8 acres
of 75% conservation and in a
particular area called pay 23
and it's shown in dashed And we
just wanted to explain why they
were interested in that area
And there were three things
Basically the city acquired two
parcels for Vernal Pool
Conservation Planning Area 23
has vernal pools on it and then
also to the north and around it
is is vernal pool conservation
conservation plan.
So the green is actually a city
mitigation site and that was
done for I think it was
the media in their interchange.
Next slide Oil Lander is a
subdivision that was done in
1910 and we thought we'd show
you a slide about the land use
that came out the other end
the specific plan.
So there's 120 lots that were
subdivided back then and
the city incorporated the area
in 1984 and the current zoning
is Air one one which is one
unit per ten acres.
What's what's so City and Tri
Point owns 31 of those 120 lot
so that leaves 89 lots and of
those 60 of the 89 lots are in
red and yellow with
significantly enhanced value or
the red is 3262 homes per acre
in in the village core area and
then the yellow is 15 to 29
homes per acre and then areas
that are hatched green with
the hatching were designated
75% conservation by the vernal
pool conservation plan I, I
think there was a letter from a
party today that actually owns
a parcel there that was
designated 75% conservation by
a plan that preceded us.
I thought that was important to
share.
And then there's some
neighborhood park area and then
some area in white that's non
developable But planning Area
23 really was the area that got
impacted as a result of buyer
having to go through 100%
conserved lands.
Next slide and one more please
Phase Phase one is Tri Point's
ownership and we incorporated
an impact area delineated red
which includes Buyer Boulevard
and our emergency vehicle
access route And then we
included an area to borrow
material from in areas outside
the colored area and our buyer
Boulevard is triggered at
the 700 It needs to be
completed by the 700 unit in
this graphic next slide just a
little depiction is 420 homes
are shown in the north and 500
homes in the south with a mix
of detached paired homes and
townhomes.
Next slide please.
What what is being contributed
with phase one which is tri
point homes Ownership is our
intention is to after
the projects approved are
certified go to the Air Safety
Board and seek funding for
the road And we have monthly
meetings with a planning staff
to talk about financing
opportunities in that spirit
and move that forward.
There's also local mobility
fees that are a potential
funding source.
These are all existing fee
mechanisms in place but we did
want to share we're
contributing over 100 acres of
our land buyers important
because it provides gravity
sewer to the mesa.
So not only not only is it
triggered at 700 it kind of
activates Southwest Village and
all the all the property owners
and various ownerships there
you know, instead of having 70
pump stations, you know there's
a there would be a gravity
system and then also it's
1,000,000yd of cut that is
really not practical practical
to dispose of elsewhere.
It would most conveniently be
disposed of at like a $3 per
cubic yard price as opposed to
a $30 per cubic yard price
where it and try point
subdivision so we can
accommodate it.
We just have to go get funding
for it and our plan is to build
it.
We also kicked in 6.5 million
for over 300 acres of open
space to try point would be
turning over to the city.
The 6.5 million is for long
term funding.
We're not required to do that.
The current mcp doesn't require
us to do that but we recognize
that's a practical way to move
Southwest Village forward and
we're contributing over 30
million and community
improvements that benefit
others including backbone roads
and utilities and then
contributing 50 million in
fees.
That's just in our first
tentative map.
Oscar if we I'm sorry Kevin if
we can go to the next slide.
We're also I mentioned
the three and a 40 acres of
open space.
We're doing a 33 acre vernal
pool restoration project to
move the specific plan forward.
And then we've cited a ten and
a half acre park on our
property And then both schools
once the first school is
entirely on dry points property
and then the second school
which is optional for
the school district is on
the on most of dry points
second property.
So we feel like we open space
schools parks we've kicked in a
lot to to get this community
going And next slide this is
just a graphic that gives you a
flavor for the types of
elevations of homes.
Next slide.
And then just to wrap up, I
think I've shared all this but
I did want to say the proposal
includes 10% affordable housing
in our project.
We're planning on doing that on
site and that's the end of my
presentation.
All right.
So we have a presentation by
staff and a presentation by
the applicant with that clerk
Please proceed with public
comment.
We will start with our first
organized presentation not
first because we have multiple
first because it's the first
ever organized presentation for
the city.
Congratulations.
Marcela Escobar is our lead
presenter and if I can have
the following participants
please raise their hands.
Michael Shumaker, William
Spurgeon Danny Dennis Handler.
Steven Shoemaker.
Tom Noel Rufo Ben Handler.
Antonio Lizarraga and Calvin
Shaw.
You can all raise your hands at
the same time.
Thank you so much.
You'll have nine minutes.
MISS Clark Just a point of
clarification Michael
Schumacher speaking right after
me is a part of the Cavaliers
and you can make it your own
times.
Okay.
Thank you so much.
Good evening.
Before you go, if he is going
to be you said who Michael
Schumacher you'll be sharing
your time.
So he didn't just come up
because then it's going to take
all that time for him to Thank
you.
Thank you so much.
Please proceed.
Yeah, yeah.
Just stay there.
Just be great.
Good evening.
Council PRESIDENT LaCava,
Members of the City Council.
My name is Marcela Escobar.
I'm the PRESIDENT Ceo of
Atlantis Group.
I'm here first of all to
respectfully request a
continuance of this item.
I think I've been doing this
for 39 years now and I don't
oppose projects.
This is only the second time
that we are in
the uncomfortable position of
having major concerns over a
project and we feel that this
particular specific plan that's
moving forward has a flawed
roadway infrastructure plan
associated with it.
What basically is going to be
happening is you've been told
today that you're approving
over 5000 units but what you're
going to get is 700 units over
the next probably 15 years by
approving some items c and f it
will be a de facto moratorium
in that area because nothing
else in this specific plan is
going to be able to move
forward.
We believe the way that
the analysis was done was not
appropriate and it basically
defers what needs to happen for
all of the traffic analysis for
the rest of the specific plan
to a later date our clients
were actually shut out of
the process.
You got some very pretty slides
talking about all the public
outreach during all of those 20
some odd meetings that were had
with the wildlife agencies.
The two primary other primary
landowners, the Bachmanns and
the handlers I'm here
representing the handlers were
not included in that process
despite the fact that we asked
the city multiple times to
please include us in that
process.
The plan before you before you
today is not the one that was
shared during the initial
outreach meetings.
The first time that everybody
saw the new plan was when it
came out for public review.
We think that there are some
things the plan does need to go
forward.
We understand that But we think
that it can be done in a more
equitable fashion.
Now I'll turn it over to MR.
Schumacher.
Thank you, Michel.
Is there a time clock that I
can read or a seven minutes?
We can't share that.
I'm sorry.
Yeah, I'm pausing your time.
We can't share the timer and
the and the visual at the same
time because we're having
problems.
But I'll give you a 32nd or a
one minute wrap up time so
you're aware.
Thank you.
Please proceed.
>> You have seven minutes and
one second.
Thank you, Michel.
Go ahead.
Thank you.
Good afternoon.
Council PRESIDENT LaCava and
San Diego City Council members
My name is Michael Handler
Shoemaker and I'm speaking on
behalf of bdm 28 llc You
listeners handler Their trust
on this.
The Handler family is the third
largest property owner in
the Southwest Village.
My family has been an active
property owner in Otay Mesa
since the 1960s.
My grandfather donated 37 acres
for Buyer Park 25 years ago as
evidenced by sup Item h of this
agenda item our family's
donation is critical to
the buyer West Broadway
extension in conjunction with
the Bachman family We as
the two largest property owners
after tripling submitted a
letter to all of you last week
that we hope you had time to
read.
As stated we are simply asking
you to delay adoption to allow
city staff time to address
several fatal flaws and
inadequacies so that all
the property owners have a
reliable planning document with
which to move forward.
We also followed up that letter
with a more detailed analysis
that lists all we believe must
be corrected before adoption.
One of the biggest flaws in
the specific plan is that it
requires the extension of Buyer
West to be operational prior to
the occupancy of the 700 unit
buyer West is approximately one
mile of expensive roadway
estimated to cost at least $60
million for two lanes just one
each way.
This aspect of the phasing plan
effectively prevents other
owners from even beginning to
process entitlement
applications until Buyer West
is built.
Please be aware that
the applicant takes the initial
allocation of 700 units and
requires everyone to wait.
Nobody knows the answer to
the questions of what happens
if Buyer West is never built or
unreasonably delayed.
Here are a few areas that we
want to resolve with city staff
and the applicant.
We think it is a mistake to
allow the applicant to proceed
with 699 units.
The sequel findings list 14
entitlements some of which are
not before the council today.
So Buyer West cannot be legally
built until these are also
approved.
The air never analyze what
happens if the critical right
of way acquisitions fail.
Nobody knows when Buyer West
will be built or how it will be
paid for.
>> We think it was also a
mistake to not evaluate first
building the extension of
Caliente Avenue before Buyer
West is shown on
the presentation screen.
We think this will cost only
15% of Buyer west and produce
far more housing that will be
built not only by the applicant
but others as well.
The specific plan fails to
provide you with
the information needed to make
an informed decision today.
Of particular importance is
the complete lack of any
infrastructure financing plan
fair share contribution formula
or cost information.
The recent and nearby Otay Mesa
Central Village specific plan
include a roadway trigger
analysis with fair share
percentages that the Central
Village would pay Most of
the cities that my team has
worked in require a separate
chapter and all specific plans
and precise plans that outline
the financing plan,
the estimated cost and the fair
share contributions.
We believe you should consider
this as a requirement before
adoption of the Southwest
Village Specific plan not
after.
More importantly, we asked
the city both the city and
the applicant how the immense
costs would be financed when
and how fair share
contributions would be
determined.
The response we received was
that after the air was
certified in the specific plan
adopted these issues would be
addressed.
We believe that this is
critical information that you
need to know before you decide
whether to adopt what is
proposed or not.
With all of this in mind,
please delay your vote today
and instruct staff as the lead
agency to work with us,
the applicant and the other
property owners to find
equitable solutions.
With the facts in hand
the matter will come back to
you So that you can make an
informed decision on what you
know rather than what you or
someone else might think.
This will ensure that San Diego
benefits from greater housing
production and infrastructure
in the entire Southwest
Village.
>> Thank you for your
consideration.
Thank you.
That concludes your
presentation then You still
have three minutes but you're
good.
All right.
Alright continue on with
the rest of public comment.
City Clerk Thank you.
Council PRESIDENT Going to
individual speakers starting
with Roll Alcantara if you can
please come up to the podium
after that if I can have
the following individuals
please come up to the yellow
reserved seats.
Chris Abrams Jim Whalen.
Rob Hixon.
Michael King.
Maximilian Schmidt, Antonio
Blas and Manuel Garcia.
And then last is allegedly
Audra please come up to that
front row for better meeting
management role.
You'll have one minute you'll
see the timer up on
the screens.
Please proceed.
Thank you.
Good afternoon.
The City Council roll out
cantar with cross-border
express as supports this
project generally and also
continued growth in Otay Mesa
as proud members of
the community we recently
celebrated ten years having
served over 31 million
travelers and generated
approximately 1.5 billion in
annual economic impact for
the regional and bi national
economy.
This growth however should be
matched with the pending
completion of essential roadway
infrastructure Most urgently
the unfinished segment of
Champagne River Road between la
Media and Britannia continues
to force passenger vehicles and
heavy logistics traffic into a
single constrained access point
through the Britannia Airway
intersection frequently
impacting emergency vehicle
access to the community during
peak traffic With additional
housing development underway
including thousands of approved
housing units at Cactus and
Epica.
This is not merely a traffic
inconvenience but a matter of
public safety.
Going forward we respectfully,
respectfully urge the City
Council and the city to
prioritize funding for
the build out of a broader core
roadway network in all times.
Thank you for that concluding
comment.
Chris Abrams.
Please proceed.
>> Hello my name is Chris
Abrams.
My address is 3268.
Governor Drive in San Diego.
My family owns the South wind
property which is adjacent to
the Southwest Village.
I just want to say that we have
found to our point great to
work with and I'm here in full
support of the project.
Thank you.
Jim Whalen.
This working?
Yes.
Good evening.
Council PRESIDENT LaCava and
members of the Planning
Commission.
No it's not.
City Council memories go.
Jim Whalen General Associates.
We're here for the Abrams
family but in support of
Southwest villages.
I have a long history in Otay
Mesa We have probably 4 or 5
different families we've worked
for and I know the area well.
Tri party knows what they're
doing.
I've worked with them for 35
years let's say, and they have
a long track record of success
with Master Plan communities.
This is probably the last one
in San Diego.
The overall plan is a good
balance between development and
very, very high value open
space especially the vernal
pools.
I worked on the Vernal Pool
habitat conservation plan in
the 2017 and the concurrence
from the wildlife agencies is
hard won.
That's a big deal If they pull
this together after all these
years, this multiyear effort
with many stakeholders is
always going to have somebody
who's not completely happy with
the situation.
But there is a funding
mechanism for the Times of
the year award winning remark.
>> Rob, thank you very much.
>> Effort.
Good afternoon.
Late afternoon City council
members.
Council PRESIDENT My name is
Rob Hicks and I've been serving
in no time this year.
Chair of the Planning Group for
the last 16 years.
Nobody wants my job back.
I've been trying to get rid of
it.
But anyway, city staff has done
an outstanding job and in this
whole project we've been
working on the Southwest
Village Plan and we did
the whole community plan update
and we've contained and Michael
is a big part of that So
they've done an outstanding
job.
This will help solve our
housing issues in San Diego.
We've asked a lot of try point
and they've delivered.
No one has ever been excluded.
>> Michael King.
Good afternoon COUNCILMAN
Lukather and Council members.
My name is Michael King and I
am a conservation organizer
with the Sierra Club of San
Diego and live in District
three.
While the Sierra Club supports
building more housing, it
really matters where we put it.
This project, according to
the city's own blueprint S.D.,
identifies the site as one of
the least appropriate places
for dense village development.
It is a high driving area with
no existing transit and no
planned transit improvements.
Yet the environmental review
still concludes that this
project is consistent with
the city's climate action plan.
Just as concerning
the environmental review did
not complete the transportation
modeling required by the city's
own transportation study manual
for a project expected to
generate more than 57,000 daily
vehicle trips.
Without that analysis neither
you nor the public has a
complete understanding of
the project's true climate and
transportation impacts.
San Diego deserves housing that
is consistent with our general
plan, our climate action plan
and our environmental laws.
Thank you for that concluding
comment.
Maximillian Schmitt How do we
know that we're not going to be
targeted in these homes?
Is San Diego City Council going
to give us some guarantee that
we're not going to get targeted
in our home?
Because I've been targeted in
one home and over ten
apartments in liberal cities
across America.
And the living situation in
America.
For some people like myself is
completely untenable.
On there are literal people who
have done in a group ritual on
a checkered board floor inside
a masonic lodge who have
the ability to look through
your eyes and read your mind
who will literally mentally
torment you inside your home.
So there needs to be some
guarantee or something that
you're not going to get
targeted inside your home or
for you to ever support Time
has expired.
Antonio Blas After Antonio Blas
as Madeleine Garcia and then
allegedly Andre please come
forward to the microphone.
>> I'd like to know if you were
given a copy of that because I
know I'm not going to have time
for one minute.
>> Yes, you can go to the other
microphone over there to Okay.
Do you see council members
represented all of the other
property owners on this village
?
Excuse me On the agenda Tract
Subdivision.
Unless any changes are made for
the protection of us,
the owners we will not change
our position.
We're not opposed to
development.
But you need to point out that
the definition of undeveloped
subdivision parking lot and
undeveloped property is very
different.
The average price of an
available undeveloped accurate
is roughly $674 six and 65.
>> The Senate bill three three
housing crisis because this has
been aggressively masterplan
for health into the community
this year legally allowed to
change zoning not the law
restricts the cities from
owning our properties and
that's what has been happening
in our properties.
I'm giving you just a little
bit of the highlights.
Thank you.
>> Thank you for your
information.
Your time has concluded on They
do have the letter the.
>> Yes.
Please proceed.
Hi, this is Manoel Garcia,
property owner Orlando Track in
California local agencies must
provide adjacent property
owners and residents with
formal public notice before
approving most new development
proposals and zoning changes.
These requirements are designed
to guarantee due process and
allow the public to review and
weigh in on projects that MAY
alter their community.
According to Oscar Galvez,
the threat from the city of San
Diego I quote Unless you
require to be notified before
me we normally we are not
required to send public
notices.
Was this tailored for this
project Only negative
consequences?
Southwest Village
Representative Jim Yea yea
along with city officials were
questioned by some division
property owners as why many of
our vacant lots were marked as
open space.
The city official and I
responded I don't have an
answer.
We'll get back to you.
>> Okay.
Thank you.
We do have the letter as well
allegedly addressed.
>> This is extremely
concerning.
I'm sure it's going to pass
unfortunately.
But why is there not equity
with all of the landowners?
There seems to be something
extremely nefarious going on
here And with there being no
transit flood roadways that are
deferred to a later date, you
talk about emergency vehicle
access but someone was just
talking about traffic impeding
an emergency evacuation zone
And I feel like you guys sit
here and you build density and
you want to do all these
walkable villages multimodal
mixed use stuff.
But it's like if people are not
going to be able to use their
cars, how do you expect people
to evacuate when you put
everybody density in an
extremely high fire zone?
I'm just wondering do you think
about that when when you want
to push us out of our vehicles?
What is that route to leave
public transit that everybody
has to go get on a bus that you
hope that they have a bike that
they can get out in time.
I'm just wondering why you guys
don't bring this kind of, you
know, protection in you care
more about doing business and
making sure people can build
but you're putting people in
danger.
Thank you.
I started the five minute time
recording of those
participating remotely.
I would like to note that we
did have one speaker in favor
that wanted to register their
position but did not wish to
speak here in council chambers.
Paul Benton.
We also received zero comments
in favor and for comments in
opposition of your economic
forum which have been
attributed to the Council
currently have four speakers in
the queue with their hands
raised.
Starting with Victoria if you
can please unmute Victoria.
>> Good afternoon.
My name is Victoria from
the jury I'm here on behalf of
Supporters Alliance for
Environmental Responsibility or
Safer.
Safer is concerned that
approval of the project and
certification of the subsequent
air will violate secure by one
failing to adequately disclose
and mitigate the project's
significant air quality health
risk biological resources noise
and bmt impacts and to failing
to require all feasible
mitigation measures for
the project's significant and
unavoidable impacts.
Specifically, say fairness, air
quality, biological resources
and noise experts found that
the project would have
significant air quality and
health risk impacts from diesel
particulate matter emissions
significant impacts to special
status species, significant
construction and operational
noise impacts and significant
impacts that the air failed to
adequately analyze and mitigate
State variance Experts also
found that your plan to include
several mitigation measures to
reduce these impacts.
Therefore requested the City
Council deny approval of
the project and the air.
>> Thank you.
Thank you.
Next is Blair in?
If you can please unmute before
I go.
Thank you for frequent thanks
for this item our nicely for
our nice we heard that from
the purpose of public comment
presentation You know it's
doesn't necessarily have to be
built so large if you can think
of reduction size that's
important building individual
homes you're building kind of a
town hall double home model I
guess or some flexibility.
It's a really nice land area to
just build individual homes or
to work with the landscape more
instead of just popping down
tons of concrete and houses.
And another suggestion and of
course coming up with new ideas
of mixed income can be really
helpful for this area.
We got to start somewhere to
really be more experimental and
creative with mixed income.
Is this a place to do it?
We can do some really nice
things with it.
It's obvious a lot of
flexibility and choices towards
a democratic future and not
just a selfish me as in future.
>> Thank you.
Thank you.
First of all if you can please
unmute.
>> Thank you.
Good afternoon Council
PRESIDENT, council members and
staff Serious value in many
hands but I am speaking as a
South County resident of over
45 years and a former member of
your time is a community
planning group in that capacity
serving on the planning group I
had the opportunity to
participate in the Southwest
Village subcommittee that
included a thorough engagement
process and each element of
the specific plan.
I'm here today in support of
the tri point homes and this
project like all meaningful
large scale projects this one
has taken some time to do it
right and they've done their
user time well.
They have worked to incorporate
community input and we were
particularly excited to see
the extension of this a viable
barge that will help connect
Mason City, Cedar and so on.
With that I want to
respectfully request your
approval of this item before
you today.
Thank you.
And our final speaker with her
hand raised is 8700.
If you can please unmute just
please follow Marcello Escobar
and Partners to Equity And I
believe rather than
the continuance they said a
return to staff I totally and
for that and I am for wishing
for me follow me on So the item
g no to that ordinance of a
street overview and across all
type to be open space and if
I'm right on the other item I
don't remember the figures but
the affordable housing is
extremely low and that's not
fair especially for that area.
So it's a big project Great
talking until and follow
Marcella Escobar and her
partner Thank you to all Thank
you And that does conclude
public comment on this item.
>> All right.
Excuse me.
Thank you City clerk And
congratulations on the first
implementation of sb 707 Off to
a good start.
We would normally go to
the council member who
represents the district but as
you heard she has recused
herself so we'll start out with
the chair of our Land Use and
Housing Committee Council
PRESIDENT Pro Tem Lee thank
yous PRESIDENT And I know our
colleague Representative sticks
out but look forward to having
this conversation about this
item We spent a lot of time
talking about the need for more
housing especially not just
affordable housing but also
market rate.
We've also seen the impact of
that in the last year or two
especially with rents have gone
down with additional housing
units that have been brought
forward And so that is
something that I think we
continue to face a challenge of
across the entire city.
This has been an interesting
discussion hearing from both
the project applicants Well
from all the work that's been
done from a city standpoint on
the specific plan but also from
those who MAY have different
perspectives and how we can
move forward.
And I think one thing I really
taking into account here is
that this is all part of
the Otay Mesa community plan
that was previously updated and
approved in 2014 as I
understand it that specifically
designates this area for urban
village development and that
community plan when passed also
included a requirement for a
site specific plan for
Southwest Village and that's
what's before us today.
Correct, which is
the implementation of what was
originally outlined in
the urban automated cami plan
the update in 2014?
Yes, that's correct.
I also noted commune engagement
and the majority support
the nearly unanimous support I
believe that came out of
the attendees of the planning
group and then the support that
came out of the Planning
Commission based on some of
the correspondence that we
received I did note that it
appears to some of the concerns
that we're hearing are directed
toward the broader policy
decision of planning Southwest
Village as a residential
village with no time a
community plan.
That decision itself was made
back in 2014 when the plan
again was updated.
I think from what we're hearing
there's different camps today
coming out on this item and
there's one that specifically
would suggest that the specific
plan itself doesn't match up
with where the general plan is
today and blueprint and then
others who simply believe that
there should be a different
implementation of it.
Is that how you're seeing
the feedback that the city is
proceeding?
But Council Councilmember I
think we've heard a number of
comments today related I think
that was one of the ones raised
In fairness to the Opposition
there is questions related to
some of the implementation
aspects.
Staff is here to recommend
approval of the specific plan
the associated actions and has
identified findings appropriate
to support implementation
consistent with the goals and
policies of the Otay Mesa
Community Plan, the general
plan and all of
the requirements of the Land
Department Code.
>> Okay.
Thank you For me when when I
see an item that has over 70
landowners that are in the area
the be also called for schools
parks, other infrastructure
that are going to be built out
within this space I can see
clearly why the city would and
the community practically
sought a site specific plan so
that there would be something
that it would help to guide how
this community would come
together so that it wasn't done
just by parcel.
I appreciate the fact that
the plan does call for 5000
plus homes commercial space
again the additional
infrastructure that's needed
And I think what I'm hearing
also is that the real question
that often comes before us at
this council and in land use
discussions is how do we ensure
and see the infrastructure that
is also asked for come to
fruition.
So let me ask you a couple
questions I guess on on that
front a lot of the focus of
the discussion seems to have
been specifically on fire
Boulevard And could you explain
to us the necessity of light by
Boulevard needs to come first
in phase one I that's Mary Rose
transport transportation to
speak the.
Hi good afternoon your friends
here with with transportation
development in regards to
the requirement for fire
Boulevard west to be
constructed prior to the 700
dwelling unit was based on a
regional travel demand model
and project description
distribution for the proposed
space development.
So based on that analysis
the analyzes of two 699
dwelling units among community
and then the remaining 221
along Fire Boulevard with
specific to that can you
explain how the 700 sort of
unit threshold was determined?
It's not just an arbitrary
number, right?
It is It is because of that
infrastructure analysis,
the static analysis.
>> Yes, that's correct.
That's based on the regional
model.
>> Why is this plan any more
viable than for example,
the alternate alternative plan
that's been presented by some
landowners that talk about
phase one with calendar instead
of buyer?
And can I ask you to speak a
little closer to the mix and
make sure that everyone can
hear in the recording?
Thank you.
So this is specific to
the proposed development in
their proposed phase
development and we found that
it did analyze the 699 dwelling
units along Coyote Avenue and
then the remainder on viable
part was let me try and sort of
step back for a second.
So one of the reasons why
the specific plan identifies
both Buyer Boulevard and Client
as two major circulation
element roadways is one it's
implementation of the overall
circulation element that was
identified in the 2014 Otay
Mesa Community Plan providing
sort of regional access to a
village that will provide up to
5130 homes.
Additionally there's other just
mobility access requirements
fire access requirements for
build out of those 5000 plus
homes.
So what the applicant proposed
the tri point homes as
the largest landowner and
the applicant for the specific
plan which was required in
accordance with the community
plan as you stated was to
provide a mobility network that
identified build out conditions
as well as phased
implementation consistent with
their actual vesting tentative
map or their project that they
also were proposing
concurrently and that analysis
was accepted by staff and
determined to be appropriate as
to when Buyer Boulevard should
come online.
The alternative analysis that
was provided to the council
earlier prior to the hearing
was not submitted for staff's
formal review.
It could be considered as part
of a nother discretionary
permit application for
implementation should other
property owners choose to
submit an application.
So for example East of Buyer
Boulevard and wish to proceed
in advance of or concurrent
with the first tentative map
that the applicant has proposed
That was actually something
that sort of stuck out when I
was hearing from some of
the opposition as well about
the potential of county for
example being considered in
phase one is what if there's a
contention about the funding
mechanisms to construct buyer?
Would that be any different
with county we would defer to
city planning staff to just
sort of Samarra around who is
in here to can speak to those
financing deliberations.
Good evening everyone.
I mean when I was seven deputy
director at city planning in
terms of by what award we have
presented to the board and have
around $2 million allocated to
a boulevard, we're also working
with the f d board to allocate
additional funds through bonds
which is yet to happen But
that's something that is being
worked on Also there is
opportunities for credits if
the applicant is going to be
the project they are required
to pay development impact fees
and specifically or time is a
local majority of around $12
million for the first phase of
the development and that can be
issued in the form of credits
towards being able to work.
So that's what we are working
on in terms of financing
mechanisms from Bible River.
But I want to understand and
this is the question or if you
have a different question Well
actually thank you for for
walking through all that
because I remember is serving
on the f d as well voting on
allocating funding and to buy a
boulevard extension.
And so I think what we've heard
is a an alternative proposal
for example, as to why we don't
consider building on Kelly and
t to unlock other housing
opportunities.
And I'm wondering if there's
been any discussion about
financing for that separate
fire In terms of calendar we
are in discussions for
reimbursement agreements for
that as well but different
portions of it.
I will need to look into
the specific details exactly
which location to be able to
better answer that question.
Did you want to come up in
Sorry and French Gonzalez
Senior traffic engineer
developments Services
Department I think like MR.
Prince mentioned what's
presented today as
the alternative plan was never
submitted to staff and as he
said it could be submitted with
a future development
application.
But I think the essence of your
question is a little bit
towards why did the applicant
try point homes choose to
construct a central avenue to
access phase one rather than to
construct Caliente because as
MR. Prince noted, both Caliente
and viable vard connection will
ultimately be needed to support
this level of development
that's proposed through this
specific plan.
So if if you want to address
why the applicant try point
homes chose to present Central
Avenue instead of Caliente
Avenue to serve their first
phase, I'm sure they would be
happy to answer that question.
Sure the importance of buyer is
really to get a secondary
permanent vehicular access but
we've we've the six 700 units
basically we access through our
property Central Avenue we
there's a on that oil lander
map there's a number of one
acre parcels where we don't
have right of way for Caliente
So we obviously wanted to
provide access into our
property through our property
that we control and we focused
on on buyer instead of caliente
because we don't trigger
caliente with our because we
have access through Central
Avenue.
We don't trigger caliente
anything further for ourselves
And we wanted to focus on buyer
which is a permanent like fire
access secondary access at If
you're just focusing on
clientele you only have one way
in to Southwest Village and one
one way out.
So Buyer We focused on buyer
which provides a secondary
access So as as part of this
initial phase even with the 700
units or so try point we'd be
building out central as an
access point on the northern
side as well as a portion of
buyer buyers extension.
That's that's correct.
At the point the buyer West
would be done by 700 buyer
Boulevard West there's a
portion of buyer east that
would be done during the 700.
Got it.
Okay.
Thank you.
Um, I noticed there's a section
under section 7.12 that seems
to suggest that property owners
can go through with other
phases or phasing of
the project could be swapped if
there was an ability to access
property without going through
buyer Can you talk through 7.12
and whether that does offer
some flexibility for out of
their property owners?
I would just sort of point to
Ashley is technically section
7.13 phasing in the specific
plan Subsection g refers to
sort of the phasing of some of
the public facilities other
planning areas will be subject
to future project level
analysis including as it
relates to Buyer Boulevard West
for necessary infrastructure,
public facilities in emergency
access required at each phase
of development So that's
the language that is in
the draft specific plan before
you today Essentially what that
means is what I stated earlier
which is other property owners
within the Southwest Village
specific plan area MAY choose
to come forward with a specific
development project proposal
and if they can demonstrate
that they meet access
requirements, fire safety
requirements and all of our
regulations of the code that
they could proceed with
development without
the necessary without
necessarily requiring
the construction of Buyer
Boulevard.
So essentially it's like if
they can present an analysis
that that staff can support
staff could permit those
developments without the need
to construct buyer But we have
not seen that analysis.
We have not seen any other
development application
proposals.
So staff cannot speak to to
those specifically or reach an
affirmative conclusion.
Okay.
Thank you for sharing that.
Um, based on what I know so far
I, I feel like this reminds me
a little bit of different but
in my own district where we've
had some projects that have
come forward and there's larger
infrastructure needs that
frankly are connected because
of what's in the community plan
And some of the challenge that
we always face is how do we
ensure that the infrastructure
that's planned for actually
gets completed and so I do hear
that argument because I look at
a portion of my district large
development that has come in
And I also know that for it to
be successful long term
the remaining connection points
need to actually happen and
that some of the discussion
about whether there's financing
available for it how that
happens it always gets left up
to question.
But I will also say at the end
of the day the housing that
we've built despite those
questions not being answered
has still been needed.
And I think part of the reason
you're hearing from folks today
is really this question of how
do we ensure that the site
specific plans infrastructure
that's drawn out actually gets
completed.
And so what what gives us
confidence from a city
standpoint that for example
that it won't end at 700 units
I'm going to argue that 700
units is also still needed from
a housing perspective.
But I think going beyond that,
how do we how do we actually
ensure that we get the 5000
plus units, the completion of
buyer going west and
the additional infrastructure
improvements that are necessary
?
So staff has presented a
specific plan in environmental
analysis that details all of
the actions necessary to
approve up to 5100 130 homes
Sorry I keep saying that number
specifically but that's sort of
what's before you today project
includes about intended a map
by the project applicant for up
to 920 homes and additionally
property owner can build up to
2100 homes So that represents a
significant portion of
the overall specific plans
development capacity and there
has been significant investment
in the processing of
the entitlements to bring
forward today to ensure that
there is development potential
within the area.
Currently it is designated for
neighborhood village use as in
the community plan but it is
zoned for agricultural use So
there is no the ability for a
property owner to build today.
This provides a more detailed
environmental analysis entitled
Specific development for to
come in at at specific phases
and allows other property
owners to proceed with their
own projects.
Um I guess the last question I
will ask then is that if if
another property owner did want
to move forward with a project
and could make a proposal or to
consider building out for
example a portion of Kelly to
to to allow for that phasing to
happen That is what would be
possible if it was submitted
and analyzed from a city
standpoint.
That's correct.
The staff staffers would review
and analyze that in accordance
with if the specific plan were
to be adopted it would reviewed
in accordance with
the allowances of the specific
plan the regulations of
the Land Development Code and
would ensure that it follows
the process similar to what
the best intended of map
process was followed for it
concurrent with the specific
plan.
Correct.
Um I guess the last question I
would ask and this might be
really more so a point question
but aside from the first 700
units that have been discussed,
how many total what's the total
capacity of homes that tre'quan
is able to build?
It's it's somewhere between
1500 to 2100 is chaplain's
intent to complete that for
Absolutely We we have we have
to work through our land
position before we go buying
other projects where and we're
out of work we really need to
keep building homes So this is
our future basically.
>> Thank you for answering that
MR. Kashani Why don't you stay
a little closer just in case?
>> Oh, okay.
I suspect others will call you
up.
>> Thank you to staff again for
the presentation.
Thank you for those answering
the questions.
I hear the concerns about
the need for infrastructure and
how how we're actually going to
plan and guarantee that
the housing that's needed
actually happens across
the board.
But I also believe that there's
going to be a vested interest
across the board to see that
happen.
Um I believe that there's going
to be a need to to build out
whatever type one has available
within their capacity but also
to ensure that the other
infrastructure that's necessary
also moves forward so that we
see other portions of the site
specific plan come to life.
The argument that we've heard
from some folks in opposition
today that would suggest that
none of this should be
considered probably flies in
the face against most folks who
are still remaining in the room
And that's not one that I
adhere to based on the analysis
and the work that the city has
done to plan and to have
the committee plan updated and
to align what we can with our
general plan and blueprint as
well.
So given where we stand at
the moment I'm going to make a
motion for staff's
recommendation to move forward
and I look forward to hearing
from my colleagues for their
feedback.
>> Thank you.
All right.
Council PRESIDENT Pro Tem So we
have a motion to move the staff
recommendation.
I'm going to jump in again
would prefer to refer to my
council district representative
but that's where we are So
thank you for the good work.
There's a lot of questions that
are being raised here that I'm
not sure were vetted at earlier
stages of the hearing but we
are where we are.
Part of my perspective is going
deep into my career maybe
engineer for East Elliott piece
of property that was subdivided
in a very bizarre way and
remains undeveloped because
the only way that it was going
to be developed is if
the property owners actually
agreed and they could never
come to an agreement about how
to collaborate and a little bit
of experience with the old
Arroyo Sorrento area that looks
to be the same as when I was
looking at it way more years
than I would care to admit
right now.
So it troubles me in terms of
these kinds of complexities and
how we can try to navigate when
we go and play on somebody
else's property.
So a couple of questions Why
did I do this to the staff?
>> a Did anybody else submit an
application?
No other applications have been
submitted where are any
properties prevented from
submitting an application?
No with the city have been
willing to accept tentative
maps submittals to be done
concurrent.
Lee Yes.
Okay.
Now just to clarify those could
not be approved in advance of
the specific plan but no
property owners were precluded
from submitting in advance.
It could have been bundled with
multiple actions.
The theory the yeah they
wouldn't necessarily be
processed concurrently Exactly
because the applicant is
preparing the specific plan but
they could be processed and
sort of at the same time they
just would not be able to be
approved prior to adoption of
the specific plan.
Okay.
I think the city ought to think
differently when we get to
these bizarre areas and
hopefully this is the last one
So you don't have to come up
with a new protocol because I
think it's a little troubling.
>> One of the observations I
made that has actually not been
raised here is why we're even
here because the Otay Mesa
Community plan talks about this
area as a neighborhood village
And so that was one of
the things that I was curious
about And I noticed that
the slide deck of the applicant
shows a very pretty pictures
for the mixed use area.
Slide four speaks to a village
core.
The community plan calls for a
neighborhood village and yet a
specific plan assigned village
quarter areas 24 through 27
which is split among numerous
underlying property owners.
So how do we expect this
neighborhood village which is
supposedly the driving element
of the whole Southwest village
to ever happen notwithstanding
the issues that were raised by
some of those in opposition
tonight?
But it seems like if you wanted
to thwart the village court
from ever happening you would
do it exactly the way
the specific plan is doing it.
It does That question makes
sense.
Can you kind of clarify what
the village core is targeted
which the village court to me
is The most important thing
about Southwest Village?
It appeared to be the most
important thing in the Otay
Mesa community plan.
We wanted a neighborhood
village here.
We wanted this mixed use
pedestrian friendly And yet
where the village Core is
located is in that segment of
this crazy ownership that has
the most property owners And
it's almost like it's intended
to sabotage it and we will
never see that actually ever
manifest itself.
So why did we pop it there when
we could have popped it
someplace else that maybe had a
singular ownership that made it
more likely that it would
happen and happened perhaps
sooner?
It's a tough question for you
but I think correct.
I do think it is a difficult
question to answer.
Let me start by saying that
the obviously ownership
challenges are important and do
need to be considered But
the ultimate long term
geographic makeup of the area
is is a contributing factor.
So where the major roadways are
expected to intersect where you
have sort of a central area
geographically and sort of what
that can look like in terms of
creating public facilities in
and around it.
So there is no easy solution to
an area that is identified, you
know that you're planning out
long term.
But I think that the what
the staff's proposal today
provides for implementation of
housing within the area
opportunities for commercial
and mixed use development and
public facilities that can
access internally within
the area and to throughout
the community and to our
regional areas.
>> And I get that it seems that
such a discretionary action
something that is so important
to the amount of time as
the community plan could have
navigated that conversation and
got to a place that's more
likely because again this is
really why we're even talking
about this going forward.
The Okay so let me get to
the probably the bigger
the more foundational issue One
I don't want to copy out
the other property owners who
either were included and didn't
speak up or were not included
and prevented from speaking up.
i'm not going to arbitrate that
.
But the idea that Caliente
would seem like a better
candidate for the primary
access to the north that we
kind of defer to the developer
and say well I have central I'd
rather do central rather than
Caliente but if we're looking
at a specific plan, maybe we as
a city should have insisted
saying Caliente is where we
need to open this up so that we
can remove any constraints to
the rest of the development
area And we chose not to.
Is there actually a technical
reason why we chose not to
other than clearly try point
did not want to because they
didn't control that you don't
control buyer either but we're
making buyer happen so has been
as has been mentioned before
Caliente is one access point so
ultimately we need to main
access points try point homes
needs a secondary access at 200
dwelling units for fire access
And I don't know for sure if
they had negotiated the what's
shown as the emergency access
to the south to rail court in
San Ysidro at the time that
they were planning what they
were going to do.
So that MAY have had something
to do with it.
I think also if you I don't
know if we have a map that
shows the ownerships Caliente
Avenue alignment overlaid on
the ownerships but I believe
that's part of the issue with
Caliente too is a large portion
of the of Caliente north of
buyer is in that area with
multiple property owners So was
that a technical reason?
Was that the preference of
the applicant?
I mean we can debate that but
but yes, I think that's some of
the answer to that.
I don't know, Oscar, if we were
pulling at this let me thank
you.
Does that start to address
the question?
It's a difficult question for
you to answer and a question of
we are the city giving
discretionary approval so we
have some say in the matter to
try point say we're going to
walk away and never come back
if we did that that's a
rhetorical question.
You don't have to answer that
And I don't even want to talk
about the secondary evacuation
route once I figured out where
it was I'm assuming if the fire
department is okay with that
secondary access over dirt
roads all the way to
the border, I'm not going to
question that.
So let me get to the larger
issue.
So I don't know if South has
had a chance.
There was a letter from Chatham
Brown that came in today that
raised pretty foundational
issues.
A lot of the presentation says
this is all about the Otay Mesa
community plan and the Channel
Brown I shouldn't speak on
behalf of other people said
you're not even consistent with
your general plan And given how
much work that the city has
done to build the general plan
and directing development where
we think it's best from a
climate action point of view we
have coal mines travel
greenhouse gases are famous or
infamous village propensity map
There's a little bit of a
problem there.
Do they have a good case in
their argument?
>> So the general plan or
blueprint City anticipates that
lower propensity areas will
generally accommodate less
growth than higher propensity
areas.
However, neither the general
plan nor its programmatic air
are prohibits residential
development or land use changes
in lower propensity areas.
So the village clinical
propensity map really serves as
a planning guide for future
plan updates or specific plans
rather than a regulatory
threshold or mandatory limit on
residential development.
In some it anticipated less
density and lower propensity
areas but does not prohibit.
Okay There was some questions
raised I think both in that
letter and I think some of
the public speakers that raised
questions about whether we did
all the traffic studies and all
of the most travel studies
there was supposed to do for a
project of this size.
How do you respond to those
accusations?
Transportation staff can
respond to that.
So we're sorry.
So vmt analysis was prepared
for the project and the project
is located in a vmt inefficient
area which is in Mobility zone
four and the project will pay
the required active
transportation in lieu fee
consistent with the Mobility
Choices regulations and rely on
the findings and sources of
the mobility Choices program as
mitigation to the extent
feasible so was addressed.
>> Okay, So you rebut those
accusations?
Yes, that's correct.
>> Okay.
Trying to think for a moment
what else I wanted to ask you
while I have the moment so I'm
not going to be supporting
the motion.
I don't want to deny
the project.
I think there's more work that
can be done in a lot of
different levels because I
think despite your answers that
there are some serious concerns
that are raised and some of
the questions that I raised and
with all due respect to try to
point to I think as a fine
developer I I've known Allen
for a number of years but I
think we could have taken a
different and better approach
with this project that I think
would have had a potentially
better outcome.
Hindsight's wonderful but I
think there is more work to do
on this and so I won't be
supporting the motion but I
would be supporting it being
returned to staff to work out
some of these issues so that we
have a tighter project, we have
more of the influence of
the other property owners and
we actually set this up for
success which I'm not entirely
convinced of going forward I
think.
Oh, let me ask one last one
last question because this was
raised in someplace Do we
actually does the applicant or
Allen do you actually have
the permits in hand
the regulatory and wildlife
permit?
No, we need the project
approved to start that process.
Okay.
Can I address a few other
things that you brought up
earlier?
You don't need to Okay.
Thank you though with all due
respect, I know developers have
different positions about
whether to accept have a permit
in hand or not.
That's your call.
But I won't I won't be
supporting I would be
supporting returning this to
staff to work out some of these
issues that I think are
actually start out outstanding
despite the very good work that
staff has taken to bring this
item forward.
I think the city at a certain
authority a little bit stronger
and drive what is arguably
the very last big masterplan
community that's going to
happen in this town.
I'd like to see it go off to be
the very best that it can be.
So I'll close there and I will
go to Council member Yvonne
Wolpert Thank you Council
PRESIDENT Thank you for
the work on this.
I do have a question about fire
evacuation.
Can you please bring up
the slide that says fire access
and the presentation And I have
a couple of questions related
to the plan public facilities
and the phasing of their
delivery while you're looking
for the side.
I do agree we need more housing
in the city.
i want to thank the Sierra Club
for being here though because I
also have concerns about over
100% conserved land.
Maybe we should build
the roadway elevated but it all
at that Leave that to
the wildlife agencies to
discover or to discuss.
But what we're experiencing up
in my council district is we're
taking on increased density and
we're not getting
the infrastructure we were
promised including fire
stations.
A fire station 48 was supposed
to be built and done by 2024
and I think we've even gotten
construction out of the ground
yet And we took on 2500 homes
in that area.
So same thing with fire access
roads.
I just I don't see us holding
the city.
I don't see it holding
ourselves I don't see is
willing developers are partners
to building the infrastructure
we need as we take on increased
density.
And so when I looked at this
map I was very concerned that
they're not even going to be a
secondary access road until
after 200 units are built.
But what's not on this map is
that seriously the high school
is right there right in Kalak
County.
So can you imagine trying to
evacuate not only the entire
high school but the community
around it?
But what if the fires in
the canyon near the high school
then you can't direct an
evacuation out that way.
So why wouldn't we require that
secondary orange line to be
built when the first unit is
built?
Why would we put 200 homes
there and 200 families there
and not build a secondary
access road from day one?
>> Can I ask Tyler Larson from
Fire Rescue Department to speak
on that question please?
>> Yes.
Apologies for leaving
the chamber early.
My name is probably Lois and
the supervising deputy marshal
pertaining to fire rescue
department We numerous
discussions about about this
plant over over multiple years
So the code the base code reads
that project are all sprinklers
up to 200 units are allowed one
access road When the amendments
came out in 2023 by then we
already looked at the fire
protection plan, the evacuation
plan We agreed upon all the all
the way up to the fire marshal
that the base plan is
acceptable.
There's a code one second it's
one of the 126.1 An exception
to is that no dwellings are to
be added to a single fire
access road unless connected
with a future development as as
approved by the Target
official.
So we had a lot of internal
discussions regarding the phase
plan and get our operational
experience and you know robust
resources over the last couple
of decades We we're comfortable
with the plans in place.
Got it.
I have a feeling that it's not
going to work out the way we
think it is 33 to the most
constrained station in the city
of San Diego and we were
promised in their fire station
years ago.
So I have a feeling that folks
at Station six and 29 are going
to get completely overrun by
this 43 two so far out the not
going to be get to be there in
time And what is the plan for
building fire station 49 which
is supposed to be right a
county road Duffy's in P.A.
Infrastructure we have it
started late in the day If I
did I just Our fire department
is so under-resourced and we
just had entire conversation
about this in our city budget
and our firefighters came in
here en masse begging us to
have more fire stations And
we're putting housing in high
fire scenarios and we have what
my district is now police
district in Stonebridge Estates
in our joint planning groups
are up in arms at us about not
having a second fire station
there now So the future council
members for District eight will
have to live with this.
And so I just I don't I don't
believe that this is
the appropriate way to plan for
our fire department overall
because it won't get built.
I also have a question about
why I mean it actually comes
from the call based on my
questions about why not county
road wide and viable of our
being done.
I hadn't even thought about
the village plan And
Councilmember I understand your
question So I also won't be
supporting this today because I
can't make the findings and I
would support sending it back
to staff.
But I do want housing.
I just I'm sick and tired of
seeing the city and our
residents hold the bag when
folks are supposed to build
the fire station on the road
and they don't.
So I got I think Councilmember
Yvonne Wolpert We'll go back to
Council PRESIDENT Pro Tem Lee
Thanks PRESIDENT I appreciate
the feedback from colleagues
and being able to look and
discuss this further.
This has been an interesting
conversation because I feel
like part of the question we're
asking which is not the one
that's on here today from folks
is whether this entire site
specific plan should happen
period, which in my opinion has
been determined from a city
standpoint from the moment we
passed the total community plan
update back in 2014.
And so we continue to argue
over the implementation of it
which work us versus how it
goes.
But even if a county was built
out tomorrow and not by we
still only have one egress
point from the community which
would present the same issue
challenging issue I think in
terms of evacuation etc. And I
understand there are different
opinions in the room here
today.
I'd be curious as to whether
this continues if it gets sent
back but it sounds like there
needs to be some conversation
about whether we actually
desire to see the housing that
we say that we need and that we
have planned for and approved
over a decade ago.
And now when we're sitting
during the implementation we
can make all the pieces of it
or revisit the entire
discussion as to whether we'd
like to move forward at all.
So again, I understand
the frustration of the need for
building that infrastructure
and the financing challenges
that we have.
I did hear just enough from
the Planning Department about
how we anticipate moving
forward especially with
the support that has already
been dissipated And I can
understand from explanations
why I would choose that path
because it's the one that they
have the greatest control here
and we're asking them to
basically build the road.
So I look forward to any
additional feedback in one way
or another.
I appreciate Council PRESIDENT
For the suggestion that if if
this isn't ready for some
reason that we at least
continue the conversation.
Thank you.
Council PRESIDENT Pro Tem Lee
not see anybody else on
the lights.
This is a little tricky and I
think after five years of being
a council member, one of
challenges we have is how much
work what ten years, 20 years
to get to this point for this
plan and then it gets dropped
in front of us.
I think even planning
Commission gets kind of an
opportunity to weigh in Council
doesn't quite judicial So it's
a package deal and it's and I
don't want you know from my
point to be clear but this is
not take it or leave it kind of
thing because it's not set up
that way.
Either you approve it or you
don't And I'm not personally
interested in that And I know
that making a comment like send
it back to staff to do more
work if not like a couple of
weeks there's a whole lot of
conversation.
There's a whole lot of
documentation for whatever if
any changes have to be done.
So it's a little bit
problematic, right?
The system that we have in
place makes it pretty
difficult.
But I think the question is
goes back to if this is not
about housing even though I
have a little bit of heartburn
about some of the elements of
this, it is how we deal with
multiple property owners, how
we deal with a single entity
coming out and getting
the authority to do that.
They put the money on
the table.
I give them certain rights.
Some of the questions have been
raised and I think to me are
serious enough that I'd like to
get resolved rather than saying
let's just approve it and see
if somebody sues us.
I hope we've learned from from
the past.
But again, you know where I
landed was sending it back to
see if some of these issues
both from a technical analysis
as well as embody this to make
sure that this is as successful
as everybody wants it to be
going forward So we'll throw it
over to Council member Wittman
Thank you.
Council PRESIDENT Interesting
discussion here If this were to
go back to staff, do you
perceive what do you perceive
transpiring if this were to go
back to staff So staff wanting
to take the feedback period
from the council members today
coordinate with the applicant
and determine if there is a
change in the project before
the council.
So that could include
modifications to the specific
plan further evaluation I see
the attorneys on the way.
It's all different Her Sorry I
misread of q So so yeah so we
understand that the Council
several council members have
raised a couple of issues
related to other mobility
analysis that would potentially
be looked at in coordination
with the applicant.
>> MS. Local Hi, thank you.
My name is Elise Low and
the Development Services
Director and I just want to
thank the Council for their
questions today If in fact this
item were to go back to staff
there definitely needs to be
specific direction.
We do have the questions that
you said before you but it's my
observation that there's really
not enough specifics here as to
exactly what you want to see.
You had questions about that
neighborhood areas you had
questions about the fire
access.
You had questions about
facilities financing.
It would really be to staff as
well as the applicant if we
could get some further
specifics because we don't want
to run into this again and come
back to you with something that
you felt like we weren't able
to answer it.
So thank you.
Thank you.
Um, let me ask the applicant if
you would like to respond to
the variety of different
concerns that have been
expressed either by my
colleagues or by those who have
expressed property or concerns
about the proposal in front of
us?
>> Yes.
Thank you.
Regarding village core, that
was a very deliberate location
geographically where
the village core is in
the center of Southwest Village
and the densities fan out
radially.
That was the guiding principle
for the specific plan you're
saying.
So I did want to clarify that
if that's where it happens to
be And typically from a
developer standpoint
the optimal time to build
the village core is when you've
got a lot of rooftops and
that's when the value increases
and some of these one acre
parcels will recognize
the value and sell and someone
could come in and and build
that or build that area.
So I did want to give some some
color to that because that
seemed to be one of the things
that we heard in regards to
clientele.
We I've we've spent $15 million
on this specific plan lately.
I'm getting 20 to $30,000
invoices just from the city
every two weeks And I can't
continue to do that And to ask
us to go back and look at
buying more right away to
develop and when we already
have access into our project
and we're just trying to get
some houses going so we can go
after Buyer Boulevard and and
keep going I honestly I don't
know like what between Kelly
R.A. And the Court I don't know
what else we can go back and
do.
I do want to respond to there
was one thing I meant to share
There's a correction memo that
was done just before planning
commission in regards to
the 700 unit threshold that
lets other property owners
propose something different
than the 700 trigger That
appears to be the sticky issue
for them.
The door has been opened
enhanced a little bit further
with specific plan language
that lets them propose a
project and propose something
different And in regards to
Councilmember Yvonne Wolpert,
concerns about fire pushing out
by buyer doesn't help fire.
We think we're trying to do
the right thing by advancing
roads which is what we do and
and help activate the community
so much.
So one of the concerns that has
been raised is that you know
you can do the 689 without
building Fire Boulevard and
once you build a 699 you would
no longer have an incentive a
financial incentive to build a
fire boulevard because the cost
associated with Building Fire
Boulevard would be greater than
your proceeds for building
the rest of the housing that is
proposed.
What's your response to that?
What is the risk that you're
going to do?
>> 680 I needed to then say
okay, we're done here.
The incentive is all
the permits that we hold After
that if we hold up to 2100 that
leaves 99 That leaves 1800
permits that we can't pull
because buyer isn't complete.
So the permits are
the incentive for us to keep
going And that's our our
intention is to get the air
certified so we can be one step
closer to perfecting
the project starting final
engineering drawings and moving
forward into getting funding
secured with drawings and
getting a vernal pool Major
amendment done And by the way
that vernal pool major
amendment in order for us to
start grading we we have to do
a habitat conservation plan for
a butterfly and that
the intention is to bundle that
together with a major amendment
and go after buyer And our
first phase together with
the wildlife agencies.
So before we turn dirt you know
that's moving in the step
towards getting buyers started
for construction.
Thank you.
A couple of questions for staff
Are the other landowners are
they legally precluded from
entitling their properties
until Buyer Boulevard is built
?
No.
The there is the there has not
been a determination made on
any other specific development
projects because there have
been no other projects
submitted.
So staff cannot confirm whether
or not a project could be
approved.
The specific plan needs to be
adopted first.
The specific plan if adopted as
presented today includes
language that a lot would allow
for other project applicants to
proceed with an application
prior to the implementation of
buyer If their analysis
confirms that they can meet
requirements then they could be
approved without the need to
construct buyer.
I know it's a conditional
answer but that's sort of we
Can I give you a definitive
answer yes or no because there
is no it nothing before us
today to make that conclusion.
Thank you.
The esd conversation has come
up a couple of times.
What are the prospects at this
point as you see the forward
try to recover its costs in
constructing viable land either
through developer impact fee
credits or through the ifp
Regarding Buy Woodward just to
give a little context I think
currently the project is
estimated at around $59 million
around $2 million have been
allocated to the project using
funds.
We're also working with the f d
board to allocate additional
funds to this project through
bonds And the first phase of
this project includes around
900 units and the credits for
that for local mobility or
development of back These would
be around $12 million which can
go towards viable toward
the entire development was that
would be additional credits we
could work with the applicant
for credit sharing across
various other developments So
there are opportunities but
this is what we have currently.
>> Thank you.
I appreciate that as well.
It's challenging issue here By
default position is to build
more housing At the end of
the day people are struggling
with the cost of living and
that is most significantly
the cost of housing And
the biggest opportunity that we
have to address the cost of
housing is by building more of
it And short of a really,
really compelling, obvious
straightforward reason to hold
up this project I don't want to
do that.
So I think you need a second to
your motion still am I correct
?
>> I'll second the motion.
All right.
So we have a motion by Council
PRESIDENT Pro Town Lee to move
the staff recommendation
the second by Council Member
Whipple.
We'll go now you might got
council member Campbell first
since she hasn't spoken yet
thank you thank you Council
PRESIDENT Thank you.
And I was just wondering if
that motion had been seconded
or not.
I agree with my colleague
COUNCILMAN Whitburn.
This has been going on for 20
years.
It's here.
Let's make a decision.
We've got a motion in a second.
Let's vote and let's see how it
turns out.
All right.
Thank you.
Council member Campbell will
now go to council member Yvonne
Wolpert.
Thank you.
It was brought up that buyer
Boulevard construction wouldn't
help the fire department but I
categorically disagree with
that.
Do you know where the closest
buyers each unit is?
3229 And to get up to Cali and
they'd have to get on
the freeway and then on the 95
and go over it by about four
minutes from that station it's
much easier And I know that I
am a unique position here
because I grew up in Scripps
Ranch and I watched my high
school friends homes burn down
in the theater fire.
So we have the cost of housing
and rough But guess what?
The cost of rebuilding is
really awful.
Too many people in Altadena are
really feeling that right now.
So if we're going to build
things that build the fire
stations around them and I
think it's awful that we ask
our fire department personnel
to come in here and be on
the hook for development
project with their promised
things.
Well, the fire marshal signed
off on it.
It's not fair to that fire
marshal their promise that
these things will happen and
they don't.
And so I think it's quite rude
that we put our fire personnel
in that position when they come
in later to city hall saying
hey, our working conditions are
terrible because we built all
the fire stations so please
help with the power station at
position anymore.
All right.
Thank you.
Council member Yvonne Wolpert I
don't see anybody else on
the lights so we have a motion
by Council PRESIDENT Pro Tem
Lee and a second by Council
member Campbell to move
the staff recommendation which
in that tiny tiny point is up
there on the screen.
Oh my apologies.
Oh, she just wanted the vote.
So let me correct that Council
PRESIDENT Pro Tem Lee made
the motion and Council member
Whitburn second in the motion
so my apologies for that.
So with nobody else in
the lights please call
the roll.
>> I started sorry the voting
system Please cast your vote.
Councilmember Campos I can get
your vote for the record.
>> Yes.
And that passes six to do with
6 to 2 with Council PRESIDENT
LaCava and Councilmember Von
Wilpert voting no Thank you
Council PRESIDENT And
Councilmember Moreno recused
Yes.
So thank everybody for a very
long day And I think a very
productive conversation.
I think the opposition has some
work to do given today's action
by the council.
So with that we're not done yet
folks.
You guys can go and get to my
script.
We will now take up non agenda
public comment council members
of respect and appreciate
the public some point our fully
committed to protecting every
participant's free speech
rights at council and committee
meetings.
>> Clerk Please proceed with
public comment.
Thank you.
Council PRESIDENT Pearl 2.7 on
Agenda Public comment is an
opportunity for members of
the public to comment on items
that are not on the agenda but
within the subject matter
jurisdiction of the City
Council.
Each speaker will have two
minutes please And if there are
eight or more speakers on a
single topic either in person
or virtually the maximum time
for the topic will be 16
minutes.
If you're in chambers please
submit your speaker slip Now if
you're joining us virtually
now's the time to raise your
hand by pressing the raise your
hand icon or if you're calling
participant Star nine If I can
start with Barbara Pinder and
Barbara Pinder.
I did note that you did submit
to an on agenda public comment
Speaker slips You only get one
two minute allocation so you
can speak to both topics in
those two minutes.
Thank you.
This is my first time ever here
and my first full council
meeting.
What an experience.
I ended up here by accident
last Friday because I had a
very unpleasant encounter with
the dog walker who left a big
mess on the sidewalk And I can
tell you I walk the I walk San
Diego a lot and I have never
ever walked without running
into dog And she didn't clean
up her mess And it was a hard
mess.
The dog was sick and it was not
solid And I looked at her said
You left your mess And she says
I'm not cleaning up that
liquid.
And I said Well then you need
to go back home and come back
with something to clean this
mess up And she didn't.
So it's not the city's
responsibility to clean up
everybody's dog and there have
to be tougher measures.
I came down here to talk to
somebody.
There is some county ordinance
that they're responsible And I
don't know how we can enforce
that.
I, I don't know take
the pictures of her, take her
picture and posted on the walk
of shame somewhere.
But please think of something
That's my one topic And
the real reason I.
>> I took a tour of the to
honor Ruby Valley We could go
Saturday and it's absolutely
pathetic and appalling And then
I learned that the city of San
Diego owns property in San
Ysidro and they're planning on
putting drying fields and
pumping sewage into these
fields and letting them dry
next to sand and several
neighborhoods and that's just
not acceptable.
So I don't know who's aware of
that and who's not And if any
of you are not familiar I mean
everybody's familiar with
the beach closures and
the toxic problem and something
it's taken way too long to deal
with this mess.
But if you haven't seen the big
jump documentary, I recommend
you watch it.
It's 37 minutes at one price
that the corner of film
festival in 2023.
Thank you very much.
Thank you Maximilian Schmidt if
you can please come up to the I
was trying to educate people
but everyone left.
I wish I'd been able to speak
last Friday when the state
attorney retires concluded but
there are people online and we
do have city tv so there's
people watching Maximillian
Schmidt and then allegedly
address Please proceed.
Hi.
I have caught the city of San
Diego and liberal cities across
America red handed and guilty.
Guilty Guilty for an
underground genocide.
Basically the Internet has
something called explain like
I'm five and that's what I'm
going to do since before
the time of Christ people have
been able to worship pagan gods
to be able have the ability to
look through people's eyes and
read people's minds and they
will try to get someone
isolated and crazy by doing
this And the person when they
talk about it get a labeled
mentally ill and it's B.S.
The person's not mentally ill
And if you search targeted
individual on Amazon hundreds
of books will come up in every
and in every single language
and in every country in
the world people are turning to
drugs and suicide because
they're driven crazy by
Freemasons who are saying their
thoughts out loud.
And what we need to do is we
need to these books on Amazon
every single one says that it's
technology That is how these
people are reading your mind or
and these books are actually
written by the people who are
trying to depopulate them to
make them more paranoid and
more confused.
And if the people who are feel
all alone they need to know
that you are not alone.
You are not the only person who
feels like you're going crazy
because people are saying your
thoughts out loud constantly
are mentally torturing you and
we know you're not mentally ill
and you're not alone and oh
shame on San Diego City Hall
for screwing with my head.
You guys are guilty.
Shame on you.
You know what you're doing.
You're also saying my thoughts
out loud.
I never thought in a million
years that the stalkers who say
my thoughts are that in public
streets that you guys would do
it too and you know your guilt
Shame on all of you and
everyone is concluded allegedly
Andre 500 people Oh So like I
told you guys this morning Tim
Allen passed away.
I should bother you as he is a
light skinned African-American
man at ten City who is sitting
in his tent dead for roughly
five hours before anybody came
and got him And he is part of
the lawsuit.
There were a couple of people
in his tent.
In fact, his attorneys spoke to
him last night.
I'm very concerned that I keep
coming to you guys.
>> Two people died just last
week or within the last two
weeks whatever.
And now another one today.
And I keep asking you how many
need to die before you guys do
something because there's a lot
of people that are dying that
have overdosed on fentanyl that
don't do fentanyl.
And I'm concerned that this
man, Tim Allen had a very
strong testimony that he was
going to be giving in
the lawsuit that would be
beneficial to winning.
And so as Stephen Whitburn
likes to laugh in my face I'm
very concerned because then it
makes me question does he have
something to do with the deaths
if you don't care because it's
your friend who runs that place
And it's just I just I don't
understand.
>> It's very difficult to come
and talk to people time and
again that profess to care
about the public And I come and
tell you about people dying and
it falls upon deaf ears and
it's like I wouldn't want to be
reaping what you guys are
sowing because now you're
you're like complicit.
You don't even care.
>> I mean I've been coming for
years talking about people
dying and being raped and it's
like yeah we can talk about
rats and all these things but
when are these lives going to
matter to you guys?
That place need to be shut down
.
I started the five minute timer
start going to those
participating online.
>> We have nine speakers in
the queue.
Hector if you can please unmute
.
>> All right.
Thanks a lot.
Hey, JULY is officially White
History Month like I said a few
days ago and on the 15th of
JULY we're going to be
celebrating It's called the
Joe Biden Day The Joe Biden
PRESIDENT Who let the illegal
aliens in and facilitated
the invasion like 2 million
people and which you guys
helped facilitate and spent
the money on.
So we're going to start
cracking down on getting rid of
all these guys so we don't need
to build more housing.
There's thousands of units in
Mission Valley that are rented
for 3500 a month.
There's hundreds of them.
They're vacant.
We got plenty of housing.
We just got to get rid of
the illegal aliens that are
occupying the other housing and
probably a million guys in
California at least maybe a
hundred thousand in San Diego.
They're here illegally just
blatantly ignoring our laws And
the criminal part of you as or
facilitating them and kind of
cutting tons of slack that time
for they got to go.
Plus in a bright or not a good
side but we're losing 3 to 1 to
Belgium right now with about 20
minutes to play in the soccer
game.
So it's up in Seattle But we
really got to get all these
people out of San Diego that
even the supporters or so like
the guys that start firing guys
that work in the city that
celebrated Charlie Kirk's
death, these guys got to go
They're abomination to our city
and send them down and start
smelling that sewer gas in
Tijuana.
We better not be putting it in
a field.
Let it dry out, have some mercy
on the little Mexican kids down
there.
Come on One before the porta
Don't make me smell sewer gas.
That would be great.
Let me.
That's brutal, man.
Come on.
Your time has concluded.
I'm going to John Stump If you
can please unmute.
Well, thank you very much for
working this long day.
I want to compliment Vivian
Marino for abstaining or
absenting herself because of
conflict of interest on
the last matters And
particularly I want to
compliment Council PRESIDENT
Joe LaCava on the way he
handled his disclosures or lack
of just conflicts on the appeal
matter.
Joe LaCava did the right thing.
He stated that he had no
contacts or he hasn't
participated with them and
demonstrated that he was an
unbiased judicial quasi
judicial figure.
You know in Goldberg versus
Count Kelly the Supreme Court
established that due process
protections and minimum
procedural safeguards that
include the right to timely and
adequate notice of the basis
for the action opportunity to
defend again against
the reasons for the action.
Opportunity to confront and
cross-examine any adverse
witnesses an opportunity to
present arguments and evidence
orally right to disclose
opposing evidence assistance of
retained counsel at parties
expense decision based on legal
rules and evidence produced at
the hearing decision stating
the evidence relied on and
the reasons for
the determination and most
importantly an impartial
decision maker.
Council members If you got an
appeal that's in your district
and you have a lot of contact
and you've gone back and forth
.
Please abstain from
participating in that decision
because it's obvious that you
MAY have been a biased figure.
>> Thank you very much.
Next is Terence Kelly.
>> If you can please unmute.
>> Good evening San Diego City
Council Chair LaCava My name is
Terence Kelley and I attend my
planning group.
I work in public Health and
Youth Mentor and and tutoring
programs my youth mentoring and
tutoring programs in this city
includes teens from very
diverse backgrounds.
On their behalf I came today to
report that this is the very
teens from these diverse
backgrounds who experience
health inequities.
You strive to mitigate
especially as these teens have
been targeted by tobacco and
marijuana companies.
The African-American Tobacco
Control Leadership Council
released more excellent
research regarding how and i
quote Big tobacco strategically
targeted blacks and the deadly
consequences end quote.
Now we're taking a close look
at the role of big marijuana as
well in creating health
inequities through their
promotion of smoking and vaping
of marijuana products.
Most often containing high thc
levels of marijuana Research
continues to grow regarding
the role of these products in
creating cancer and chronic
disease related health
inequities among minority
populations, I respectfully
suggest that the city's
enforcement efforts to
eliminate and toxic eating
products.
Sometimes nicotine, sometimes
marijuana sometimes cbd be
increased and that no new
business permits be allowed for
tobacco and marijuana
businesses in the city's
neighborhoods.
They only harm those
populations that you most
strive to serve.
Thank you for hearing my
concerns this evening.
>> Thank you.
Judy Strang If you can please
unmute.
>> Judy Strang I can't.
There you go.
Hi and good evening And thank
you all for staying.
As always, I appreciate that
you're as exhausted as your
audience out here is and want
to thank City Council person
Van Wilpert for sharing her
cancer journey with us.
I think it's extremely
important that it gets as much
attention as possible having
high visibility elected
officials speak to it helps a
great deal.
I called in because I was
really interested in item 400
and the PowerPoint presentation
that was presented by law
enforcement regarding the very
dangerous person who apparently
was experiencing a psychotic
episode and threatening
everyone who was around them
And the explanation of how much
this affects public safety
because it doesn't necessarily
end in this incident.
It can be taken out into
the neighborhood as well.
The thought that occurred to me
as a public health educator if
that's the end result of public
health decisions made that
could have perhaps changed
the course.
And I'd just like to remind us
that we should Media release
came out regarding a highly
visible incident with a
psychotic episode due to a
marijuana use that occurred
with a girl name.
I'm sorry Briana She has a very
interesting last name.
Specter stabbed a roommate and
friend and her dog when she
experienced a cannabis induced
psychosis after just taking two
hits off her roommate's bong.
And help us to remind ourselves
that when we see this psychotic
episodes that were presented to
us today as 400 as well as this
recent media release regarding
a court decision, let's take a
really good look at what we do
when we make decisions about
marijuana.
We don't need more of it in our
neighborhoods.
Thank you.
The five minute timer had
concluded there are six
speakers in the queue.
No additional speakers will be
taken.
Francine Maxwell if you can
please unmute.
>> Good evening Francine
Maxwell Southeastern San Diego
resident.
I would like to make sure that
I continue with my request as
the Council goes on their
legislative break.
The city continues to run and
there's opportunities for
the community to get educated
especially given the consent
agenda last week where our
energy equity campus was given
another extension from dsd.
So it's very interesting that
the ib a shared with some
constituents and some of my
neighbors that yes there
the legislative branch but
the operational branch is
really controlled by
the legislative branch.
And so that's why this land
that used to be shovel ready
it's not shovel ready anymore
but the person in charge of it
Demetrius he doesn't have
the same love for making sure
that people in San Diego are
employed.
His developers are from out of
town his right hand So the city
should be looking at that
because it's going to be
the council that gets this
reverted and the state is MAY
force us to sell because it's
going to be classified as
surplus land.
So again with all of that being
misconstrued it would be nice
to either the ipa or dsd would
hold an educational opportunity
so the community can be
educated on why for 20 plus
years something that was shovel
ready is now having fires on it
and illegal dumping And it's
just very interesting because
there's no communication and
this is prime land and we
deserve better.
And I'm hoping that during
the legislative break the city
can take it upon themselves to
do some educational
opportunities for constituents.
Thank you for allowing me to
speak.
>> Thank you.
Next is Madison.
If you can please unmute.
Hello.
Good afternoon Council members.
I'm here to encourage the City
of San Diego to take seriously
the public health and safety
impacts of today's high potency
marijuana.
Over the past decade marijuana
has become far more potent than
in previous generations.
Many people still view it as
harmless But emergency
physicians, addiction
specialists and mental health
professionals are seeing
increasing cases of cannabis
dependance.
Cannabis and do psychosis
impaired driving and accidental
ingestion by children.
Just this week a coalition of
major transportation and safety
organizations led by
the American Trucking
Association warned the federal
government that weakening
marijuana testing requirements
could have serious consequences
for truck drivers.
Airline pilots, transit
operators and other safety
sensitive workers.
They emphasized that there is
currently no scientifically
validated roadside or workplace
test that measures real time
marijuana impairment.
Because of that drug testing
remains one of the few tools
available to reduce the risk of
impaired individuals operating
vehicles and equipment that
the public depends on.
Splitting their concern
highlights that marijuana
impairment is difficult to
detect making prevention
especially important here in
San Diego.
In this city carefully
considers the public health
impacts of future marijuana
related policies.
Normalization causes harm
especially with products that
carry real risks for developing
brains mental health, workplace
safety and impaired driving.
Thank you.
Next is Becky Rapp.
If you can please unmute.
>> Good evening.
My name is Becky Rapp and I
wanted to bring to your
attention some encouraging news
from the dea.
The agency has announced their
plan to classify the drugs 7-h
as a schedule one controlled
substance.
Many people know seven h as
the highly intoxicating
psychoactive compound found in
Kratom which is being sold in
products found in smoke and
vape shops.
This federal action is
important because the city of
San Diego has already
prohibited the sale of kratom
products due to the public
health risks they present.
Yet residents continue to
report seeing kratom products
openly displayed and sold
despite the city's ordinance.
The dea decision provides
another enforcement tool and
creates an opportunity for
the city to work alongside
state and federal agencies to
enforce the laws that are
already on the books.
I also want to point out
another concern.
Many smoke shops and vape
stores continue to sell
products that don't comply with
local or state laws including
intoxicating hemp products that
are often advertised or labeled
as cbd plus.
Some of these products are
marketed as wellness products
even though many contain thc or
other psychoactive ingredients.
This is why education and
enforcement are both so
important.
I'd like to ask the Council and
the City Attorney's office to
use this opportunity to
strengthen enforcement.
San Diego's existing ordinances
increase inspections of smoke
and vape shops, educate
retailers and hold repeat
violators accountable.
Thank you.
Next is 8700 If you can please
unmute.
Do not enjoy Senator.
I'll begin with the condolences
to Tim Allen's family and
friends on his death.
Like all of us he was and is on
a sacred journey.
Peace be with you Tim.
Next council member Van
Wilpert.
Thank you for sharing your
words.
And then on to the next.
I notice today that all of
the agenda items were missing
in reference to committee It
happening at a committee and
there was no name for
presenters and attorney and so
forth.
So is that going to be
permanent because all of
the agenda items were like that
and it didn't feel good
The next is one minute allowed
on going to be a stringent rule
now ten And if so is it based
on group presentations because
the group presentations are
only allowed one minute each So
one minute feels very
stringent.
And if you could just clarify
that I don't remember reading
that on the Seminole seven
presentations.
So actually present with Carver
I want to congratulate you on
something and also Council
member Campbell but it started
with you You tend to really
engage the public when it's
appropriate.
And I just want you to know how
much I appreciate that you
corrected me or not corrected
but clarified me on the Jenny
Care program item And that
meant a lot to me And I noticed
that you do it in various ways
with the public And so I
mentioned it.
It comes to council member DR.
Campbell Community and I'm
sorry your time has concluded
Blair Beckman and then Barbara
Gordon your final speaker Blair
Beckman Please proceed.
>> All right.
The zoom timer isn't working.
My my zoom MAY cut out.
Sorry If it does, we simply
should be continuing ongoing
community dialog and
conversation and how to
formally leave the vendor flock
and look for a better
principles vendor Can we also
simply give up the pr vendor
process altogether at this time
and for the sd community to
work out new data collection
arrangements?
If you think you're
the eventual owners of the most
recent large copier placement
in San Diego neighborhoods I've
been describing for months now
how both the city of Oakland
and Kent County of Alameda are
currently developing an 18
month process of full community
input to discuss best practices
and leaving plug and for a new
better principal they hope
vendor This is simply a good
beginning Model San Diego
should be referred to at this
time and as we are learning to
better question how data
companies like Fox seem to be
overly developing its data
within the context of
supporting international
policies of continual war and
more openly addressing Floc
over the next few months.
San Diego should also be
working towards a yearly review
process in a small reduction of
unnecessary or redundant
surveillance technology and
annual pr use within local San
Diego neighborhoods.
In theory this will not overly
limit or take much away from
the use of surveillance
technology within current San
Diego neighborhood public
safety concerns and yet
continue the efforts towards
more clear, consistent ideas of
better principled tech
practices and oversight.
I'm trying to develop this
public comment towards
consensus building compromise
and good logic for everyone in
San Diego.
A final reminder that it's my
understanding that former San
Diego councilperson Monica
Montgomery Step has always felt
that the numbers of new airport
purchases for San Diego,
the recent airport purchases
for San Diego neighborhoods a
few years ago could eventually
be reduced.
And to conclude, I beg of
yourselves to have more open
accountable for community
conversations about both
the current spoken and unspoken
procedures and guidelines
within the future of aopa for
use in real time in San Diego.
Thanks for your time meeting
today guys.
>> Talk to you tomorrow.
Thank you.
And Barbara Gordon, our final
speaker.
>> Good evening.
As a public health advocate I
am here today to encourage
the city to send a letter of
support for Senator Blake
Spears Senate bill 926 which
addresses the growing misuse of
nitric oxide while preserving
the access for legitimate
medical dental and culinary
uses across California.
The recreational misuse of
nitric oxide has become an
increasingly public health
issue.
The widespread availability of
these large capacity canisters
and products marketed for
inhalation has contributed to
the rising rate of misuse.
Particular among our
adolescents and young adults
repeated exposure to this gas
can cause serious neurological
injury and cognitive impairment
.
Sb 926 focused on strengthening
the safeguards around the sale
and distribution of these
products.
The bill helps prohibit
avoidable harms while
supporting responsible retail
use at protecting the health
care providers, food service
professionals and other
legitimate uses.
Preventing substance misuse
requires a proactive ballot
policy that prioritizes health
and safety.
This bill will address
the emerging public health
concerns before its results
Even greater harm to our
community.
I respectfully urge your
support for sb 96.
This legislation represents a
meaningful opportunity to care
for vulnerable populations and
the potential misuse against.
Thank you for your leadership
in advancing these policies
that improve the health and
well-being of all San Diegans
and Californians.
Thank you for letting me speak.
Thank you.
That does conclude my agenda.
Public comment for today's
meeting.
Thank you Council PRESIDENT All
right.
Thank you to the clerk.
We will now adjourn Council to
the regularly scheduled council
meeting on Tuesday But before
we adjourned the city attorney
have anything to report out in
closed session?
>> Thank you, Council
PRESIDENT.
There is nothing to report out
from closed session.
All right.
It's important to make that
statement though We will now
adjourn Council to
the regularly scheduled council
meeting on Tuesday JULY 7th,