good all right looks like we got
everybody gathered I apologize for not
being able to be there with you in
person uh this evening uh but I think
for the most part we're just going to be
receiving information and uh providing
some feedback at the end so I'm I'm sure
we can all conduct ourselves fine uh in
my absence here uh with that Jeff can
you please call the
role yes councelor maon pres councelor
Smallwood
oh she uh she's excused thanks thank you
mayor uh councelor Sheldon here counc
Walker here councelor exner here
councelor Hokinson here mayor pulam here
um please note that um Tyler uh councel
did inform me Tyler deemed informed me
this morning uh that he has decided to
go ahead and put his name in the uh in
the ring here uh to be our next city
manager uh so with that in mind I've
asked uh Jeff opara to kind of uh and I
think I always brutal brutalize your
name Jeff I apologize uh but I've asked
Jeff to kind of Staff the meeting for us
uh this evening uh so Jeff will you go
ahead and take us through the
presentations sure thank you
mayor uh Council I'm pleased to
introduce Eric Jensen who is the
principal of Jensen strategies LLC uh
the city retains Jensen strategies to
manage our recruitment process process
for the search for our new city manager
uh Jensen strategies has conducted a
very thorough process so far they've
already offered a public input
opportunity for the community back on
June 1st they've sent an input survey to
All City staff and they've conducted uh
one-on-one stakeholder interviews with
uh all the counselors and all the
department heads um all of these efforts
have been centered around the question
of what are the attributes you're
looking to see in sy's next city manager
well the result of that work is before
you tonight you have the draft position
profile which includes hiring standards
and criteria as well as policy
directives for the new city manager it
also includes hiring procedures and a
schedule and so the purpose of tonight's
work session is to allow the opport the
council an opportunity to discuss these
documents make changes or suggest
changes if you deem them
necessary um but per state law formal
adoption of these documents is required
at a regular meeting with a public
comment opportunity if the council
wishes to conduct the actual finalist
interviews uh and deliberations in
executive session uh which we recommend
at the end of this process so to do
those things in executive session you
have to go through these uh steps here
at the beginning with public comment
opportunity so unless there are any
questions about any of that um happy to
throw it over to Eric Jensen
okay thank you Jeff I I don't know how
close I have to get to the microphone
you're fine okay you're good okay good
uh some places I go to they they
practically make you swallow the
microphone so I always ask um thank you
Jeff and uh thank you mayor and councel
uh great to be here today um Jeff that
was probably one of the best intros uh
that we've had in one of these sessions
so thanks very much you covered a lot of
bases I was going to cover so
um so uh first of all thank you for
giving us the opportunity to uh conduct
this recruitment uh we appreciate the
opportunity we're honored that uh you've
entrusted us with that um and also thank
you for the time that you've put into
this in advance and doing the individual
interviews uh which has given a lot of
fodder for what we uh produced for you
today so um as Jeff said uh the the
purpose of this work session is to
review these documents uh that we have
uh drafted for you and uh to get any
feedback that you might have uh prior to
adopting uh adopting the documents uh on
June
20th the um we also at the end want to
talk a little bit about um the salary
recommendations um we've done some
comparables and looked at those and we
have a recommendation for for you with
regard to the range that you might want
to advertise for we'll get to that at
the
end um so as Jeff mentioned uh there
were a number of things that went into
the to the uh information that created
this document and of course the
interviews there were 18 interviews
seven of course with all of you and then
uh 11 uh with uh staff so uh in addition
to that we had staff survey as Jeff
mentioned uh we had 17 responses in the
staff survey uh we did a community uh
survey as well online we had three
responses there and we did give the
opportunity for uh Community uh comment
online uh at a uh facilitated uh session
uh but unfortunately no one uh came to
that
so the a few points about uh the profile
um
this document the profile which is
referred to as appendix a uh in your
packet is um an important document for a
number of reasons so as uh Jeff
mentioned uh you do need to adopt uh a
profile uh in order for you to be able
to hold executive session on this
recruitment going forward um but even
more so um we also use this document to
set the criteria by which we evaluate
candidates all the way through the
process so we use it uh to establish the
criteria for the applications we use it
uh for the criteria for all of the uh
all of the interviews that are done all
the way through the process uh because
we want to stick to what you want in the
next city
manager um you'll note that with regard
to if you've read through the document
which I'm sure you have um you'll note
that maybe some of the points that you
brought up with us aren't in there and
when we're doing these interviews we're
looking for a Nexus a Nexus of opinion
so that we can find out where is the
commonality uh in what people are
looking for and then we try to thread
that needle uh as as closely as we
can um
we also uh I also want to make mention
that uh as you read through that
profile uh I've had other councils say
when they've looked at the profile well
it's it looks like it we're looking for
a unicorn and um and to a certain degree
uh you are um and you're not unique in
that regard uh but what we want in that
profile is
uh what is does your ideal candidate
look look like or what what does your
ideal candidates attributes
have uh or candidate have attributes
that candidates have yeah
uh um
and how many of those boxes can we check
off so we're going to we're looking for
the person that we can check the most
boxes off as as humanly
possible all right
um before I go start going through the
documents uh any uh initial
questions okay I'll dive right into it
so you have in your packet uh after the
staff report uh you have uh the overview
sheet uh the adoption of official
position documents and that's just
explaining why you're going through this
uh process of uh adopting these two
documents uh following that you have
appendix a and
um let me kind of walk through what we
have here um and by the way the other
thing I meant to mention is that we use
the profile to generate the recruitment
brochure
so all the M material the attributes
that you're looking for will go into the
brochure along with other information
about the community and so forth so um
so when it came to minimum education uh
and experience uh we're suggesting that
you require a bachelor's degree in
public administration planning political
science related field and at least three
years of upper level government
management
experience um and of course we always
have uh the language of equivalent
combination of Education experience may
be considered because sometimes you do
get that one candidate that has other
ways of fulfilling those
requirements uh we also suggest that you
put down preferred education and
experience as well and when we get to
doing criteria this will translate to
more points for candidates if they meet
some of these uh preferred criteria and
that in includes a an advanced degree in
public administration uh such as an
MPA um and five or more years of
increasingly responsible public sector
experience um previous Service as a city
manager uh and our training uh in
Economic Development and growth
management is highly
desired um and experience uh working in
Oregon is also beneficial given the
unique uh uh the unique uh elements that
make up Oregon uh Oregon law
so then we get into the you break in any
time or sure uh what I would suggest is
if you have clarification questions uh
break in and then but otherwise at the
end I'll come back and ask for comments
if that's all right
counselor means I have to have a memory
so you got
[Music]
a I might fall asleep
[Music]
though I I did also you might uh found
on your desk there is a a little swag um
so you do have something to write with
if you need it brought my own
okay all
right all right um so let me just go
through these attributes uh and the
first two attributes we have in every
single recruitment that we do for city
managers because these two the
leadership and management category and
the council relations are core to the
work of a city manager now these uh the
elements that are in uh these
descriptions are consistent we make sure
that they're consistent with what you
told us um but we offer up that this
these two attributes are Paramount uh to
any candidate that you're looking for
that you're looking for somebody who has
the ability to oversee multiple
departments to oversee multiple
disciplines
uh that can help generate an
organization vision and a a leadership
style that is accessible and and
promotes communication and
professionalism um and has uh experience
in uh leading uh strategic workforce
planning to meet Uh current and future
staff capacity needs Council relations
again paramont uh this person uh is
directly accountable to you and so the
ability for that person to uh maintain
good relations uh with the council is
important uh to be proactive in that
relationship and professional fair and
inclusive uh to always be aware of City
operations and the legal o obligations
of the city so that they can inform you
of what of what's going on and what you
may need to be uh talking about when it
comes to Legal obligations and
Regulatory
Compliance um and
also is get excuse me gives you the
ability to make informed decisions it
gets you the information that you need
to make informed policy decisions as the
city's Chief policymaking body
communication came up uh a lot in our
interviews uh looking for someone who
with strong communication skills both
for internal audiences and for external
audiences and to that end being able to
to communicate with diverse groups of
people um and within that
communication have emotional competency
transparency humility inclusion ethics
and
accessibility um
and also being able to promote two way
dialogue and then finally this is when
we talk about communication we're
talking both verbal and written in this
particular case actually most cases uh
the next uh attribute not surprisingly I
don't think is Wastewater and water
infrastructure
experience um you're looking for
somebody who can facilitate large and
complex capital projects particularly
for Wastewater storm water and water
water um I think it goes without saying
that is a Paramount issue here in Sandy
with all of the infrastructure needs
that you have and the projects that you
have planned and you're working
on um but you're also looking for
somebody who can lead the
multifaceted portions of that because
it's not just a matter of do you know
how how to make sure that a capital
infrastructure project is moving forward
but do you understand how to to
orchestrate being able to work with the
Regulatory Agencies being able uh to
work with your jurisdictional partners
Your Community Partners and so forth and
stay uh within the federal and state uh
regulations um and uh also very
important is the financing part of this
and being able to be creative and
effective in their financing approaches
is going to be uh important as uh I'm
sure you all
know community and economic development
it's the next category that came up and
uh looking at being able to move forward
with economic development and being able
to seize those economic opportunities uh
when they come to you and to proactively
be able to uh look for those economic uh
opportunities as they come
up but it also takes a a certain degree
of ability to think strategically about
how do you set up policy and operations
so that you're ready to take those
economic opportunities when they come up
and so we have put that in there and
then uh at the last sentence there
knowledge of Oregon land use law and
urban renewal management is beneficial
IAL this is those are two things that
are are unique to Oregon um and so we
have included
that the next item is Public Finance um
obviously uh you want somebody with with
that's proficient in Public Finance
skills um that's going to be responsible
and strategic in fiscal
management uh that's going to integrate
uh your finances with with your city
goals and includeed a diversity of
Revenue approaches uh somebody who's
going to be fiscally prudent with your
taxpayer
dollars uh and someone who is going to
be looking at this from with a lens of
developing maintaining uh sustainable
Financial
approaches um so that you have uh
sustainable revenues Mo moving forward
and again back to Oregon um experience
with Oregon budget law and requirements
is going to be
helpful next uh item is facilities um
when I'm talking about facilities here
I'm talking about both in terms of
employee workspace and in terms of uh
facilities for Community
use and so we heard that uh you would
like to have somebody who understands
facility planning and
management uh and being able to
integrate uh Workforce space needs uh
with uh the future with future
facilities uh planning and being able to
strategically plan for the community's
needs in uh facilities be the uh
recreational resources or meeting spaces
or any of the public facing
administrative areas that you might
have the next item is transportation and
Transit uh
and here we're talking about streets but
we're also talking about your transit
system and being able to effectively
plan and maintain and construct streets
as and being able to move forward uh and
managing the transit system making sure
that that's continuing forward um so
you're looking for somebody who has
experience developing traffic management
approaches to support
livability uh while facil in the high
volume of visitors that you have going
through um Sandy on a regular
basis Community engagement also very
much uh on the on the
radar and what we heard was that you're
looking for somebody who can maintain
and enhance City's efforts to inform and
engage the Sandy community in City
business
um within that you're looking for
somebody who's going to in doing that be
evenhanded uh with the
community and is going to look for
two-way dialogues leading toward
consensus building when
possible um and uh exuding the uh values
of transparency inclusion collaboration
and as I mentioned two-way uh
communication and Community uh
engagement intergovernmental relations
there's a lot going on here uh that
requires intergovernmental
intergovernmental relations as we were
uh hearing from you um and that's
everything from just the the
daytoday uh relationships that you might
have with say the school district or the
fire district uh or the county and the
state and your Regulatory Agencies but
also with these key projects that you
have going on right now particularly in
the Wastewater uh and the water supply
uh realm uh and then of course with
streets you you do have crossover there
as well so being able to manage those
intergovernmental relations is going to
be
key
um housing policy and
homelessness uh we heard uh a lot about
uh that you want someone who understands
housing Supply uh Housing
Development that uh you may be in a
point now where you're in a moratorium
but uh it is anticipated that you're
going to continue to grow as you have
and so being able to think uh and plan
for strategically how you're going to go
about developing that housing Supply is
going to be key um and how do you
interface the public infrastructure to
support those housing needs um and then
also with regard to homelessness making
sure that uh that you have the uh
policies codes and resources to help
address homelessness issues as they come
forward then uh
Broadband uh you are in a relatively
unique situation compared to most
cities uh with Transit and also with
broadband and
um I said I'm proud of it I'm proud of
it absolutely and we heard that too so
um so somebody who's familiar uh with
Municipal broadband system operations
would be
desirable uh if at all possible uh you
we I will say that uh that's going to be
uh that's going to be part of the
Unicorn yeah
so uh and appreciation for Sandy uh and
what Sandy is where Sand's been where
Sand's going and what the culture of
Sandy is um and then we always have in
here the understanding of city
government roles do they understand what
their role is what the role of the city
council is what the role of staff is and
um and to how to navigate legally
defined roles uh as they're doing their
job now um I'm going to go through the
policy directives and then we'll Circle
back to the attributes and then to the
policy
directives um now the policy directors
are called for in Oregon law um if you
want to hold executive session that's
part of the profile and that's why we
put these in in here but it's also
helpful for the candidates to understand
what are the big issues that you have
going on that they're going to need to
be a need to Grapple with so not
surprisingly number one is Wastewater
infrastructure expansion
um that we heard that in I think every
single
interview um and
uh we have a description here that kind
of takes it through where you've come
from on this uh and uh the
moratorium uh the consent
decree and uh raising uh the fact that
there have been concerns about utility
Community concerns about utility
rates so the next uh city manager is
going to need to be able to move forward
with those Wastewater improvements uh
they're going to be uh need to work
closely with your public works
department to address the unfunded
mandates that uh are part of that
and to meet the terms of the consent
decree and accommodate growth in a
manner that's financially
sustainable uh for the city and for the
rate
payers the second issue uh we heard
about um drinking water
reinvestment and this goes back to the
drinking water system reinvestment
project and I'm not going
to go through the particulars that
because you know that but just a cut to
the chase here at the end uh where we
always add what the role of the next
city manager is going to be in these
issues and the city manager is going to
need to work closely with Public Works
to ensure that this project moves
forward efficiently and in a manner that
is financially sustainable to the city
and rate
payers second I'm sorry third issue that
we heard about was the Community campus
project and uh we learned that that was
that is a key project in your downtown
area to develop a new park in the heart
of
downtown um and that you're you're
currently uh Gathering Community input
on that to come up with a development
plan so the next city manager is going
to need to take the Baton on that and to
help run forward uh with it um so
they're going to need to be able to be
the champion of that
uh and to to uh be able to help with the
funding the community engagement that
comes along with that and the
Partnerships that will be needed to move
that project
forward police chief
recruitment
um it's evident that uh your police
chief uh has decid to
retire um and so you will be looking for
another police chief and uh the next
city manager is going to need to be
involved in selecting that person um
moving forward and in a way that's
transparent and fair in the selection
process for the next police chief and
then lastly uh Workforce capacity and
space needs assessment we heard a lot
about space needs uh for
employees um and we heard a lot about
the limitations and at the same time
hearing that uh you run a very
lean very lean
Workforce
and to that end the next city manager is
going to need to come in and assess that
situation and assess what is needed in
terms of space at the same time that the
new city manager is looking at Staffing
requirements and so being able to
integrate those two concepts together
and and the plan moving forward is going
to be is going to be
Paramount
um so uh that gets us to the end of the
profile and I'm GNA go back and ask you
uh let's just take this section by
section uh do you have any comments
about the minimum education and
experience
question down okay I gotta find
it it was more about a certification
than it was oh it is um CR to have a a
CPM you didn't have that in there for
certified public managers um were those
do they have to have just The Bachelors
in public administration or could we add
a CP C A CPM for prefer referred I know
you had Masters for public admin but I
didn't know about a certification for
you could you could add that I I would
recommend that it go in the preferred
section uh because it'll severely limit
your candidates if you put it in the
minimum um I didn't think it should go
in the minimum I just thought it as a
preferred as a preferred
Benchmark because some people might read
at least from a Clarity standpoint and I
want to make sure that the applications
you know meeting all the requirements
somebody might look at that and say okay
I have a bachelor's but I don't have a
master's and some sometime they they do
have a certificate that they've taken
that could be beneficial to their you
know to their scoring on an application
sure can you I'm not familiar with that
certification so can you make the case
for why
that's good I mean there's a lot of
Sears in my industry that
aren't yeah and I guess from my
standpoint just in my experience is
somebody that has gone out and taken the
time and enaging and effort to put forth
the work effort into getting specific
certifications for their skill set
always enhances their do you have any
history or experience with this specific
certification no I can't say what's it
called it's a certified public manager
Eric isn't the isn't doesn't icma have a
certified manager program that's the one
that I've seen before yeah thank you
Jeff public servant public servants in
city and state government yeah so icma
the the international City County
Managers Association does have a
certification uh program for managers
and that list of people on that are it's
an elite group if you will um I would
recommend that if you wanted to put some
uh certification down that that that
would be the one that you put down as
preferred um specifically so after
masters of public administration comma
or CPM certification Etc again I'm not
to the council I'm not I'm not saying we
should put it on the required section I
just think that I'm looking at it says
identif completed the required 300 hours
of study through a CPM program
accredited blah blah so it's not just
like a weekend course right I have to
defer to somebody who knows more about
it than me which I know nothing
so this is when you say it's an elite
group usually Elite's a good thing it is
in this case yeah okay so
yeah so we'll include the icma
certification as one of the preferreds
so okay I was gonna bring this up under
experience stuff but since you're
already here I think I'll jump in um
first
off um in in my mind we are not looking
for a beginner I've been through three
city managers and I got to say that
somebody who's had that experience
before really made a difference in what
happened here so would you say that
Sandy would be best suited
for a highly experienced city manager
somebody that really has to have in my
mind they do need it because of all the
issues that are going on here but I
don't want to over qualify the
suggestion about having a pink um
unicorn is no animal in this world that
will fit all these things but sure I I
also don't want to make the circle so
small that we just don't get anybody I
do want to get a nice round look at
several candidates so
are where do you perceive Sandy should
be at should we be talking about you my
perception of a highly qualified or do
you think this is Sandy is more of a y
smaller
City they don't attack me but I do not
think that we have a lot of big ISS
issues for a city our size yes and you
do um and I I would
recommend or or think that it would
be beneficial for you to have someone
with City management experience or at
least someone who has been in the sea
Suite um someone who's who's been
interacting with councils somebody who
understands what it is to plan
Citywide and to go across multiple
disciplines in the public
sector um so we do have in the preferred
uh a statement in there about city city
manager city manager experience which
means we're going to give extra points
if somebody has that
experience Service as a city manager as
well as experience and or training in
Economic Development and growth man
management is highly
desired experience working in organs
benefici I was thinking of counselor a
requirement of a bachelor's degree in
one of these areas as a minimum but but
I know you have it in or though oh here
it's or related
field yeah it looked to me like that was
the degree
was um equal to or as important as the
experience so you have either one I
interpreted that as the degree would be
preferable in these areas but it could
be an alternative degree so if we had a
biology BS who happened to have 10 years
as a city manager we would look had him
because he would have met the minimum
side correct that's that's what I took
that as well and that's kind of the
place that I'm saying I'm I'm conflict
with you want to require previous City
management experience as a minimum uh is
that what you're saying I was looking at
the degree I don't need a doctorates but
let's just be people um the difference
between Jordan leaving who had the
degree and some of the other city
managers that were pulled in because
they happen to
have understanding of city was in my
mind a significant
Advantage having a the degree and
experience was really key for what
Jordan's able to do
but isn't that and isn't that there
though because it's it's listed as it's
listed as preferred not required I mean
so really doesn't the question come down
to do you want to limit our pool of
candidates that we get to interview and
have in front of us uh by making that a
requirement or would you rather have a
more diverse pool that we can have in
front of us and I guess I land and
having a more diverse pool um while also
trying you know under preference saying
sure prefer this but maybe we find
somebody that has you know 15 years
worth of city manager experience but
doesn't have that
educationally uh but we we we find that
individual be to be a top
candidate that's why I was making the
statement mayor is that I I don't want
to make this pool so small that we get
one person or nobody I do want to make
it wide enough that we do get a good
variety of folks from different kinds of
perspectives
[Music]
I just don't want to waste people's time
in mine looking at folks that just don't
cut it so I have a different opinion on
where your degree comes from or what
your degree is in and
that and it's probably still because of
my own background I spent very little
time working in my degree area most of
my care has been outside of my degree
area if somebody like Jenny 10 years
from now wanted to apply for a city
manager role she's a phenomenal person
but she doesn't have one of those
degrees she's an engineer right and you
don't want to restrict somebody with the
right experience so that's to me is
really important to go after that or
related field so you got some degree
that's the minimum right but now tell us
how your experience and training
connects to the position description
correct that that's what I'm looking for
I guess that's why I'm looking at you
Eric to say to me don't make this a
requirement make this a preferred so
that we do get the mix or you think
there's going to be plenty of people
applying we didn't get tremendous
numbers for Jordan's
position well we got a few and I think
that's I guess that's what I'm looking
at you for we're paying you the dollars
to
tell so uh putting it into the preferred
category enables us
to to make sure that those candidates
that have those
preferred uh
attributes get pushed ahead of those
that may not have that so you already
have I think what you're looking for
under the preferred category and by
having it in here that tells us this is
what you prefer this and we will move
the those candidates forward that have
those that have that meet those uh
attributes
okay me into it move on
okay just on that the only thing I would
maybe add is that you know under the
minimum it says at least three years of
upper level government management
experience you know several of us Carl
and I both have government management
experience I would you know I would
maybe just tweak that to say City
management experience since we are
looking to you know for to some extent
for somebody with you know
City or at least you know SE Town County
so you know something like that I mean
forest service is not you know that's
government experience you know FK is
government experience Army is government
exp local yeah local government or
whatever they're trying to restrict me
from applying can you see
that so Kathleen just to clarify though
like uh Moma County government Metro
Clackamus County government and OD do
type uh you know Governor's Department
dep th those candidates are are fine
local government stand that covers it I
think yeah okay good yep me too they
would probably lose out on the other
criteria so yeah I'm inclined to we'll
sweep out the lower priority candidates
pretty quickly so counselor that that is
a helpful distinction um and we'll put
local government in there uh we do get
people who do apply from that have been
with a federal government for years uh
and have been middle management uh that
have been managing a lot of people but
it's not quite the same thing so the
local government distinction uh does
help that was a big quite not quite the
same
thing not at all resembl that
remark all right um well we we kind of
moved right into the preferred education
experience so uh with those two items
there with the discussion we had are you
good with that all right um let's move
down to the uh desired skills and
attributes uh I'm going just open it up
in general for that entire section if
you have
comments go
again um this is just really to enhance
Clarity and readability of it in my in
my l so sure maybe not I feel like we
have um infrastructure and Public Works
scatter throughout of throughout this
so when I look at page two it's got
Wastewater and water infrastructure and
Page Three has facilities and
transportation page four has got
Broadband I I think you should put all
those together um so that it just
improves the clarity readability of it
because when I when I look at the
desired skills and attributes and you
have leadership management and
communication and those are management
level you know things that correlate
when we're talking about infrastructure
in public works Public Works is
transportation water sewer energy
facilities parks and rack safety you
know and maybe having those all in a row
so that they stay
together are you saying are you saying
leave them at separate paragraphs but
just reorganize them so that they're all
together yeah I mean this is all about
preference now I I would put a I would
put a title that says infrastructure
public works and then drop all those as
sub bullets underneath it because
they're all in line but you have the way
you have it templated right now is just
individual templates and that's fine I
would just push them all together so
they're not separated by um community
and economic development Public Finance
you know those are that's just creating
a gap and then you're going back to
facilities it's just about the way the
the page reads at least from my L yeah
I counselor thank you for that comment
and uh I I don't know maybe you were in
our office when we were discussing how
to put this together um we did have a
similar conversation to that um but I'll
tell you why we did we did this the way
we did and then if you folks want us to
change it we're happy to do that um
we're we were looking at the order here
is sort of almost an order of
importance and the Wastewater and water
infrastructure piece came through so
clearly as something that you really
need to have somebody to help navigate
we felt we needed to peel that out and
to make sure that it was its own uh
attributes um and uh with re with regard
to
um uh trans transportation and and
Transit uh we didn't we didn't and
Facilities uh we didn't hear the
volume that we heard with regard to
Wastewater and water infrastructure so
we moved it kind of down down the line
now we can group those very easily and
that's not a problem for us if that's
what you would like to do and just for
clarity I wasn't suggesting anything
about the priority of importance it was
just about keeping them grouped together
so the candidate who's reading it would
understand their role and everything
that they saw so that again just Just My
Lens I do have one more thing for yes I
saw well it's really the next subtopic
is policy directive
but in the in the header of desired
skills and attributes I don't recall
seeing anything
over know it was policy
implementation policy what
implementation and when I was you know
we talking about implementing policies
and ordinances and resolutions adopted
by city council to ensure the compliance
with the laws and regulations I I didn't
really see that written anywhere amongst
those things which I mean it's implied
and then you go into the policy
directives which tell them what are the
key things the city's working on but I
didn't see anything about actually
implementing policy that the city
council we that just for a
second did have the sentence set up
unique under housing policy and
homelessness right but I wonder it's
something that should be added to the
general leadership and management
in the
broad perspective are you talking about
the legislation as well as policy no
well specifically um because I didn't
see that knowledge knowledge and
experience to support collaborative
efforts to facilate policies codes and
resources to and in this case it said
address H because the reality is those
things are core leadership things that
we need in general I'm and adding that
something like that to the that up front
that first spiler plate leadership thing
that be under leadership and management
or Council relations um yes
leadership so um yeah I I understand
your point uh thank you and I think that
this is something we could easily
incorporate either under leadership
management and or under Council
relations I think that's the place that
that would fall
under we're we may not have talked about
it a lot but one of our challenges left
couple years has been to try to become
more policy oriented and do a better job
of managing our policies as a
council okay all right we we will uh
work on uh including that in one of
those two sections or both um so
so one thing I wanted to explore is uh
coming off your your comments you just
made about water and wastewater um and
setting at aen priority I mean obviously
I think we all agree it's a it's a huge
priority um but just a reminder when we
got Jordan you know his big um Capital
project experience was I think it was a
new city hall um in Lake iggo and so it
doesn't have to be just so specific to
Water and Wastewater it can be project
management experience overall and while
obviously Water and Wastewater is going
to be in the foreseeable future for us
I'd hate to only get you know retired
Public Works directors and you know uh
just you know people from that sector
applying for this because while it's a
priority I just I want to make sure
we're not
overemphasizing um how big of a priority
that that skill set is for
us can I because that's the one area
that I had some criticism on if I read
that Wastewater and water infrastructure
it does feel like I'm recruiting fore
project manager and we're not we're
recruiting for an executive to oversee
these projects from an executive level
we have program managers and project
managers and the Public Works director
what we're looking for is somebody who
has that ability to understand their
role with the
program as an
executive to build on that and that was
a big thing for me when I looked at this
I'd like to see somebody who can ad
administrate those difference segments
there are some people in our staff that
are so good it's mostly just stand out
of their way let them do their thing
with a little bit of guidance and guard
rails and such but let them do their
that's the kind of person I want I want
somebody who can be a compliment to
these highly qualified people we've done
a pretty good job of getting some great
uh staff in place would want to get in
their way yeah it's a little different
skill set appropriate sponsorship
mentoring
that's I just want to say all those
comments really go with mine I I totally
agree with all of that
so if you look at that section if you
take out sentence number two where you
at I think oh Wastewater and water
infrastructure if you if you take out
sentence number two it starts with
knowledge and ends with
important right that everything else I
think fits holistically for that role
but that one is very specific about yeah
having that that you know what I mean it
it it is I really would like to see the
word you know that executive role with
programs and projects to me is what's
missing yeah and you they're using the
word facility right is that is that kind
of that's what I well so keep in mind
I'm a project manager program manager
and that if we're appealing with people
who understand that discipline bringing
a candidate in who understands that
discipline is
powerful and so I would like it phrased
in those words that relate to that
discipline so if we were to strike that
second sentence as you suggest uh and
then to put some language in that really
goes to the concept of working working
with the staff uh and and being able to
support uh staff's
efforts moving forward is that so I I'm
I'm I don't like that as much okay now
I'm speaking for myself now but I so I
agree with what Carl Carl's saying in
terms of we have great staff we really
do but I think more importantly is we
run programs whether the budget programs
or in the case of Wastewater we have a
program manager outsourced that handles
the entire program management things
they're going to be returning all kinds
of metrics but what I I need what we
need that was pretty selfish to me what
we need is that executive function and
if if you're looking at it from a PMI
perspective the role is that governance
function or that sponsorship function
somebody who understands the role as a
sponsor of these programs and
understands you know their roles
in yes it is a facilitation Ro but it's
not in the weeds facilitation it's
coordinating finances priorities
resources and so forth
way up here being an overarching um uh
Champion if you will uh well once again
Champion is a little word if you go to
PMI okay which that means something way
down here not the executive okay I like
Words more like coaching
mentoring managing negotiations those
are kind of words I guess I'm thinking
of when I think about the executive
conversation that dos having I think
from where I sit um it's the ability to
kind of understand the the jargon and
the um the strategies and and all that
data and the ability to kind of help you
know if you had it you know Jenny's
great because she's pretty she kind of I
don't know dumbs it down for us but you
know she she's able to deliver it to us
so we can understand it you other
Engineers you know tend to kind of
really data heavy and you know you don't
know what they're talking about so
having a city manager who can help and
help um synthesize the the data into
kind of digestible levels of
understanding for both the council but
also for the public so having that
understanding of the pro the
infrastructure complex infrastructure
projects regardless of whether it's
water Wastewater or whatever um to be
able to kind of um explain it and deal
with the inter agency Communications and
things like that so if I'm hearing what
I'm hearing is that what you're really
looking for is somebody who provides
guidance and Leadership to support staff
as they initiate what's in front of them
so if uh for example you have Jenny you
need that city manager that's going to
be able to be whichever word we want to
use but you're really providing guidance
leadership and support to make sure that
that staff can be successful in
implementing their initiatives going
forward and pration
conflicts arise with that's getting to
your executive level which is providing
that and each director has different
things that they need from that leader y
so would that be a kind of a consensus
so this a good time to talk about how
much we're gonna pay this spectacular
dude because if we're I'm just thinking
to myself though we're asking for some
pretty significant skills here I know
that we're Happ down the road a little
bit before we get to the dollars but I'm
just thinking to myself are we going to
Outsource ourselves we we looking at a
Portland city manager versus the Sandy
City Manager type do these kind of words
no not at all I mean these are these are
great clarifications and I I think
points well taken um and we want to make
sure that that that we hit the mark for
you folks um and I understand exactly
what you're saying about not getting the
weeds not being the project manager but
being the person who has the oversight
that can help help move move these
things forward at their level within
their role as a city manager not that
they're down in public works uh trying
to look at uh every schematic plan that
there is uh with regard to sewer pipes
so yeah not like Jeff's experience as
city
manager yeah boots in the
[Music]
mud all right I think we've got enough
to to work with it and um
uh so I we'll take a shot at that but I
would like to come back to your comments
with regard to uh this all the different
infrastructure elements that are kind of
peppered throughout do you want us to
try and combine those or are you good
with those being
separate I kind of think so my thoughts
on these a lot of these go along our
Council
gos
um so therefore I do like the idea of
organizing a little bit better but I
still think they should be separate
par counselor uh when you say organize
better uh what are you looking for so
the way I initially understood what
Chris was saying was put the the M
better terms of Public Works style stuff
in in column for right but I still
rather than put it all as one big bullet
and one big paragraph with subheads I do
like the separate paragraphs for each of
those special te so if we were to group
these together that would get get at
your concern well the bottom line would
be are we going to give us give these
people that are going to apply the
correct information be able to
understand what they're applying for I
guess I I would expect this person to be
intelligent enough to be able to read
these
things up with a response you know
resume all the other Jensen Matrix which
I look forward to finding all about you
think higher people than I do I think
that is a good idea what rich said
because you know if somebody doesn't
have a lot of water Wastewater
experience but they have more you know
streets or something else then they can
kind of you know if they're all kind of
grouped they can kind of speak to those
skills that we're looking for with
reference to the these you know projects
that aren't exactly lined up with water
waste water but integrate it you know
their response in and I guess that's how
I see that helping them organize their
thoughts and also help us you know pick
those skills out yeah okay I think we
have some really great language and the
council goals that can serve as kind of
like the initial introduction to that
section and then talking about
maintaining sustainable infrastructure
and then going into each section I think
we have it yeah great well and by the
way uh when it comes to rewriting this
uh we will be working with Jeff and
Angie uh
on that to make sure we're hitting the
mark so those guys
understand okay all right uh any other
comments on the attribute
section that
will we'll move on and let's uh look at
the policy directives uh any comments
with regard to policy directives follow
the Wastewater infrastructure expansion
the statement this I think it's the
third sentence despite these efforts the
high
volume the high volume of sewage and
water fls especially during what has led
yes that that's incorrect so that
overhaul we're doing is because of
past problems and so that sentence we're
talking about those overflows and things
that was all before we started any of
our upgrades we now reduced that
significantly not to say that we never
have a problem but it's it's not in
spite of right
okay so we'll change the beginning of
that sentence to reflect
that just make sure it's very in the
past
because you're absolutely right yeah
just was looking
over okay great perfect that's kind of
we're looking for yeah I want to back up
just for one sec only I was just mention
as I was looking at it I'm missing
anything about Emergency Management is
that is that necessary to have that in
there uh no and again you know where
these came out of were from the
interviews that we did and what came
collectively from everybody that we
interviewed um we did not hear a lot
about Emergency
Management I'm just pretty sure that's
that was Jordan's role so that's one of
his
roles does need to be mentioned I would
be one that didn't bring it up didn't
occur to me well ditto because I don't
think I brought it up obviously of did
it's not it's not your forethought but I
mean at the front of our brain right now
but I think that I do agree that uh the
Emergency Management and as we continue
to work towards
redundancies and all
um I think that is something that I'm
not saying it has to have its own
paragraph would you like to add it under
leadership and management attributes the
ability to manage under crisis including
emergency conditions I I think it
belongs under intergovernmental
relations because that's you that's kind
of you know you're working with the fire
department and you know Sheriff's
Office all
those yeah you know as a city manager
you don't really have a lot of control
over anything sorry I didn't mean to
back you up
that's that's fine rather hear about it
now so I would say counselor um it may
actually even deserve its own bullet it
doesn't have to be a big one but it it
involves intergovernmental but it also
involves things just here within the
city organization it's funny you know
the chief knows that we on a staff level
we had a meeting today on the natural
Hazard mitigation plan which the council
will be seeing later this year but kind
of our initial work on it it doesn't get
talked about a lot but it is important
and it is something that you know
probably should be mentioned at least in
my opinion under its own section should
everything goes that way if you got a
big issue if the earthquake happens we
won't even be thinking about Wastewater
we all be going down to crack in a hole
Port that describe it pretty well no
words we have some we have some language
that we could
offer you don't like that if there's if
there's an earthquake or totally going
to be worrying about water and waste
water but
anyway
bottles the uh should that to that point
though rather than and and I'm cool with
its own paragraph as well but should
that go under uh preferred experience
you know just and I'm just throwing this
out there uh IC experience Emergency
Management
operations um as a higher level I mean I
I know that's something that
is an executive
level piece of well that training
especially around the IC and that um and
I made I'm just throwing this out there
as a spitball I I don't know if that's a
good idea or not that's your discretion
as to what you you want you know
experience with IC or the ability to get
it that's kind love because you know or
is that something that's just too much
into the weeds for something like I
guess that's my question I'm a little
concerned about there's a number of
small I shouldn't say smaller less
crucial in our face uh that could be
lumped into this and I'm thinking about
personnel management not that it's not
important it's just that not in my face
at the moment but the Emergency
Management um and a little bit time I
might come up with some others but I I
think there are some things that we
don't spend a lot of time with until
they become in our face kind of stuff
and so I'm a little concerned about
pulling out each of those different
items because again we're going to end
up with this the uh sample is is the
Unicorn thing you'll never get somebody
has all these different pieces and and
Emergency Management I let's just be
honest with how much Focus we've given
it as a council the last two and a half
years which is half of one work session
or something that didn't go well I
mean if unless we choose to prioritize
that and push it more regardless of what
experience they come in with we're not
going to do much there I think you would
also gather that from based off their
experience as a skill set that they
would have that they could learn based
off their their whole experience level I
think that's what you could teach and
don't I I thought I I kind of recall
Mike having to go to the uh IC Ernie do
you guys your staff go to IC training
staff do well a lot of Staff try just at
least the lower levels of it some more
than
others I was G say when I started with
the state I had no government experience
with IC and in my first year I went to
several course works and then I came
back and had to draft the agency policy
for it so it just you could get trained
in it I think it'd be unusual to see it
in the qualification section for city
manager but I mean but having it in the
kind of further it in the into the body
if this sort of makes sense does that
okay
R should it just fit under
intergovernmental relations though I'm
just trying to as to avoid a whole
paragraph I guess in my
and I'm fine with that I can be sold
either way I don't know the right answer
I've never done this before
so so um again it depends on where this
priority lies for you uh in conjunction
with everything else that you've got
down there on the attributes you know
for for sisters for example Emergency
Management was a big deal um for obvious
reasons
um I I only you can tell us how big of a
deal it is for you at this point in time
but if you were to include it in under
intergovernmental relations then uh at
least you've got a foothold if you will
for Emergency
Management uh and so that we when we're
scanning through applications then we're
catching that danan do you have a
preference if it goes under inter
government relations or Standalone
paragraph
no I mean it really can go under both I
mean you're right Kathleen you're uh
Jordan's you know doing everything from
clackmas County Fire to clackmas County
government to their emergency department
to the state so it could go
intergovernmental it could be a
standalone I'm good either way Jeff why
do you think it need be own
paragraph probably because I'm in the
midst of doing
the I'm being quite honest yeah I I
think that we were reminded and chief
feel free to speak up if you disagree
but I mean I think we were reminded of
this is something that gets looked at
every several years and it probably
deserves more than that you know and I'm
I'm I mean that's why I'm conflicted is
but is but to the earlier point though
if uh if everyone in government's going
through this training I mean does it are
we really it sounds like we're not going
to hire anyone outside of government so
sounds like just about everyone's going
to have gone through this train and be
able to lean on something
uh in some sort of
fashion I'm of the opinion that this is
something that if they meet all the rest
of the criteria we can get them trained
train them set their priorities
appropriately and and make that happen
I'm hopeful this area will not keep me
from selecting somebody we can why don't
we just put it in intergovernmental
relation cool let's do
that okay so we will incorporate in
intergo intergovernmental relations all
right um you ready to go back to the
policy directives y okay any any other
comments on the Wastewater
infrastructure
expansion going going going gone okay uh
how about the drinking water
reinvestment looks
good hearing none I'll move on to the
next section Community Campus Park
project can you get the right total
amount from Jeff it's not 1
significantly more than that
okay all right we'll get the right
number in
there anything else like that that we
didn't hit the mark
on all right I'm Gonna Keep Going uh
police chief recruitment any comments on
that the recently began operating I
don't think it's correct unless I'm
misunderstanding something
thought we were close but not
there
247 we've been doing that for a
long we operate at 24 by okay all
right well over 20 years okay we'll
strike we'll strike the recently and
just say that uh that you run a 247
service so okay okay now I have a
question I mean I'm open to uh thoughts
about it because I know it's kind of
come up but um it says um the the next
city manager is expected to lead a
transparent and fair selection process
to select the next police chief and I
was going to put in to lead a
transparent and fair Recruitment and
selection
process how do y'all feel about that
anybody have a concern about
that okay we'll put we'll put
recruitment in there as well thank
you anything else on the police chief
well don't give us too much of a thank
you we haven't picked the firm yet you
know that was a joke that was a
joke all right um Workforce capacity and
space needs assessment any comments on
that
not seeing any okay
um through all that
um you know the thing that kind of
concerns me a little bit is you know we
only have so much tax dollars right now
and so you know yes we're growing but
that balance of being able you know the
reason we're still small is because we
don't have you know a huge amount of
money to kind of be hiring all these new
people and so I understand we need it
um but it's part of it is it's having to
kind of balance do we contract out
certain things or do we hire inh house
and and so balancing that how to kind of
you know I I hate to say that do more
with less but but kind of how to balance
you know getting things done with our
growing population but within our
limited tax base um isn't that kind of
covered in that next the last sentence
yeah we expected
[Music]
to
strategies within
available Avail
resources enough yeah I think so yeah we
we definitely heard that and we we were
trying hard to thread that needle uh to
make sure that that that concept's in
there well the other part the other
thought that came to my mind and I think
you heard it you heard it from me I know
about um the whole idea of you know work
from home versus work in the office you
heard it from me too
yeah and so I don't know you know is
that is that kind of in here or and I'm
not saying that they need to you know be
at the office every day or something but
I see that last last thing yeah I'm
hoping that was what was meant by that
last thing was coming up with the
policies the appropriate policies for
that sounds pretty detailed I I would
expect that whoever's in that position
will look at that very closely and
decide and we will administer
his grade at the end of the
year to me that last one is brought
enough that you know whatever they have
to come up with a strategy they got to
keep us happy
yeah I mean it's a matter of public
service and they got to keep their
employees happy and so yeah okay we
gotta keep Angie happy
yeah take
much that's not what I
heard all right well thank you and I and
I I would concur that I I think that
that's something that would be inherent
uh with with what's said here
um it's easy to get down into the weeds
and some of the policy stuff and uh with
regard to the work atome issue every
city that we're working with is dealing
with that right now um and you know how
much of that is a change in the norm and
how much of that is uh this is a a
one-time deal and you're going to move
on to other issues
so okay um so that takes us all the way
through the profile and with those
comments so we will make make those
changes uh and run them by Jeff and
Angie and make sure that uh um they're
okay with it so and we assume that
you're you're all right if they sign off
on it I'm sorry but I'm gonna back
appreciation for sing one of the things
that you asked me was do they need to
live in San and I said no I don't think
they do but I want I think it's
important that they you
know come to you know evening events or
go to a after hours you know chamber
meeting or or um you know do a weekend
you know solve cleanup or whatever to be
visible and stuff and so that
willingness to kind of um show up to you
know to the Comm so that the community
is aware of them and and communicating
with them so I don't know how
you did that kind of get addressed in
here it it did counselor uh we did talk
about visibility in Community I think it
was under Community engagement okay um
all right so thank you okay what was
that by the way I was the same sort of
boat as kathen n cat person had to be in
the
city boundaries just
curious I don't think it I don't think
they have to I thought I think I said it
was preferred not required I thought
Community the 97055 I because I I
thought Community visibility is is where
they need to be seen
absolutely which is been whether they
lived here or not if they lived here be
better but I I wouldn't exclude them if
they didn't live here I mean when Jordan
was not that's for sure when a candidate
asked you how much of my time do I have
to spend in the office what will you
tell
them uh first of all um if they're
asking that
question they're not that familiar with
the job okay um so I mean you're look
you're looking for somebody who has been
in the sea Suite um so I work in the
federal government and a lot of those
seite people work at home a lot now so
surprisingly yeah I mean we're we're
very clear when when candidates ask us
you know can we work remotely and I've
had only one candidate in the last three
years ever asked that question um that
that uh the answer is no this is I sit
here educated thank you these are city
managers right talking about
yes I think you know given dual careers
that people face trying to find jobs and
stuff the fact that you know I me that's
understandable that they don't
necessarily have
to long as they can be visible and
weekend a weekend day or evening or
something like that
I would just say one one last thing to
go back to what Stan said originally um
sorry the mayor said originally is any
way that we could find a different way
to consider alternative experience
because I feel like we've got such a
prescriptive profile here that you know
when it comes to education and
experience that somebody who may not be
more formalized
will not apply and then that worries me
about Dei and whether we're being
inclusive of of everyone and there's
nothing in here about Dei there's no
statements about Dei so it I want to
make sure that we are considering
alternative Pathways and I know that the
very front it says equivalent
combination of Education experience may
be considered to me that's very benign
it's not enough to let somebody know
who's reading this that hey
let's look at your breath of of
experience and and and put it in there
and any way we can articulate that to an
applicant that we don't scare them away
with all these details and I don't know
how you get a good balance with that or
at least because this is this is like
long and a lot of stuff so I just want
to make sure that we're getting a good
selection of diverse applicants that
come in and feel like it's a job that
they get so whoever they be
like that's almost
impossible just from the like you said
from the criteria that's why if you're
if you're looking for seasoned
experience you look at the demographics
of Who currently fills those roles
across the region I don't think it's a
very diverse
group not an org it's
not one thing concerns me though is I
was in the forest
service to there are certain quotas I'll
put it that way that were required
I'm not anticipating that here are
yougive
me I assume when you do the brochure
you're gonna say things like we consider
all candidates yes that's oh
that's we always but uh the city is an
equal opportunity employer um yeah so
we'll cover those Bas be blind when it
comes
to yeah but it's I think the hard part
is
from an equity diversity and inclusion
perspective it does require proactively
recruiting from a broad net and if you
made the filter criteria so restrictive
that how how does somebody who falls
into that category get their first years
of experience well we're saying not here
yes that's what we're saying and I'm
just and I'm just mentioning did we look
at this did we are we aware of it are we
we write this out because this is just a
draft when we get there will we consider
alternative experience Pathways that
that aren't necessarily what we've
outlined um to expand our selection pool
and I'm not saying underqualified I'm
saying experienced but in a different
way um and and how does that person when
they read this on the
web and they say I think I might fit
this and they actually apply because
what we're talking about is they that
group of individuals not even applying
because they feel
excluded because we've made it so extra
is there anything that we can or should
add that would make it more attractive
to somebody who might feel like go on
the fren
sh
um so first of all let me let me just
say that uh in our advertising that we
do for these
positions uh we advertise nationally we
also advertise with specific um
demographic groups um there there is for
example a a black public administrators
group um nationally and we advertise
with them um the same uh with Hispanic
um so you know we try to cast The Net as
broadly as possible uh in that regard um
um the in terms of the the
terminology um we're very careful about
the terminology we use we have somebody
who is on our team who is responsible
for um applying a Dei lens to all of our
products and um she's given us great
advice you know so for example we no
longer talk about a candidate being a
fit because fit now is code for a you're
looking for somebody who's going to be
just like
us and uh so we don't use that that
terminology anymore so we're pretty
careful about how we uh how we craft
these to make sure that it's they're not
exclusionary at least you know to the
best of our
abilities yeah
I mean this says um uh you know you
mentioned inclusion you know the the
city manager should demonstrate
emotional competency transparency
humility inclusion ethics and
accessibility when communting all
individuals or groups and that and that
said I would also add that
I you know the the place to get
um I I couldn't see us hiring somebody
who doesn't have any cine management
experience regardless of how great they
are
because I think that you know this job
requires some experience we've got such
big issues that we're dealing with that
if you don't have that kind of a
background you're going to really
struggle and it's going to be difficult
to kind of it's it's a very steep
learning curve if you don't and I don't
think we can really afford that
especially you know we've got so much
going on um I think the place for those
folks is to kind of get you know
assistant you know assistant city
managers and things like that that's
where you know they can they can learn
but not not at the top right see
Kathleen I would I would argue with you
and say look I and I'm not applying so
I'm just gonna say this out loud I've
got 25 years private sector 20 years
executive level leadership five years
state government individual leadership
everything we've just described I have
all this experience right here I have it
all I've never been a
city I've done everything testify in
front of the senate sit on the w means
committee and
testify you don't need City man yeah do
we want to C
but but that's I hear what you're saying
though because you want City management
experience but I'm saying there are
other there are other roles that people
can do to get the same exact experience
that isn't City man I know over their
over their career and I don't want to
exclude people who don't have City
management experience
I and I totally get where you're coming
from and just to kind of have some real
word experience there you know the
forest service is you know the the new
Forest supervisor I don't think ever
worked for the forest service
before and you know the same I I believe
that's the case with the new District
Ranger at zigzag never worked for the
for service doesn't know fish you know
fish from fou you know kind of thing and
I'm I'm sure they do know fish from fou
but and I don't mean to to mean that but
they have that leadership experience in
all they have to prove themselves in
that interview process they show that
they have the experience do those things
I think that's okay for for certain
things I do know that you know when
you're talking about Wilderness policies
and all those other things you there's
just some things where it really helps
when those people have some familiarity
with what Wilderness is or what the
forest surface is or things like that
and so I get that there's you know I I
think it's important to not limit us but
I also think sometimes it's helpful if
they know so so I think we're in a
pretty good spot because you know Chris
to your point I don't think we've
communicated anything to Eric here today
or or described anything that wouldn't
take somebody with that skill set that
you're
describing and have them potentially
consider pushing them forward as a you
know as a potential candidate but to
Kathleen's point I mean on the city
experience and the local government
experience I mean that is clearly
preferred I think by Council um but you
know I I don't think anything in here I
mean if you look at the minimum
requirement for education I mean it's a
bachelor's degree you know I mean
everything else is just uh is just
preferred and desired skills and
attributes and so I I you know if you're
somebody with that kind of experience
that you're describing Chris I think you
you you know that you're qualified to be
a city manager and and you're definitely
well within your grasp to apply and I'm
not talking about you I mean someone
with that experience uh stepping forward
to apply for it uh but I think you also
know that you have a bit of a hurdle you
know you know that you're not a city
manager and and haven't worked in a you
know City municipality and so I don't
think there's anything here that a
prevents someone of that skill set to
apply uh but b i I think that individual
does have a bit of a hurdle and probably
should knowingly know that you know
going into the application
process yeah I agree with you 100% I was
just contending what I heard councelor
Walker say which was the city manager
experience and I'm just saying it's
similar similar yes I think what we've
got written up collects a broad set of
candidates and then when we get to sit
and deliberate for those top three or
five or whoever then we can kind of
weigh that those nuances there I think
one of the things I've always thought
that make City manager's application to
Sandy is that we are connected to a
whole range of possibilities for
different ethnic groups you know the
Portland area we've got the different
groups that are living here in the city
as well as you know possibility of
connecting with them in different parts
of the metro area I I think if you're
looking for somebody who might want to
move to a place that has some diversity
and the possibilities of finding that
diversity probably you're in the
Portland metro
area Council um if you if you're okay
with the the profil as it is I I would
suggest we move on because I do had a
few of the things I'd like to cover if
that's all right with you folks
or yes please
okay um so with regard to uh the hiring
procedures this will go a lot quicker um
the hiring procedures are what we wrote
up in our proposal so you're not seeing
anything different than you saw in our
proposal um we're going to follow that
same process that that we uh that we had
outlined um I will um suggest to you
that there are some uh key points that
uh I want to make you aware of in in the
process so we will be uh assuming that
you do adopt uh the profile and the
hiring procedures on the 20th uh we
areed SCH to launch this from on July
10th and it'll run to August 6 which we
typically go for uh 4 weeks that's that
standard um once we that happens we will
gather the applications we will apply
them against the criteria that you have
outlined for us um and then we will
interview uh by Zoom uh the the top
usually it's the top 10 if uh and we
might go a little above or a little
below depending upon what we've got in
the pool um and based on that we will
come back to you in executive session I
hope you have this on your schedule on
August
21st um because when we come back we
will bring you everybody that we've
interviewed and we will bring you
notebooks that will have all their App
application materials in them and we'll
present those candidates to you and we
will be looking for you to give us
guidance as to who you would like to
move forward up to four candidates move
forward as finalists um we don't do
these meetings by Zoom uh because we're
protective of the candidates uh that
have not publicly declared that they are
candidates um so uh that's the reason
that we do this in hard copy in
executive
session um once we get that uh
designation from you uh we will offer
you some recommendations But ultimately
of course it's your decision who you
want to move forward as finalist uh once
that happens uh then we will uh start
doing background checks and reference
checks uh on the candidates and uh then
we move into what we refer to as the
finalist week and these are the other
dates that we're hoping that you'll have
on your calendar um so uh the finalist
week is going to be uh the week of
September 11
and starting with Tuesday September 12th
we have two commun two receptions one
for the staff and one for the community
we highly encourage Council to attend
the community reception as observers to
see how the candidates interact with
your
community um and following that on the
Wednesday we do panel interviews with
the department heads with other public
administrators in the area
uh as as well as uh with the community
as with Community
leaders following that on September 14th
this is the other date that you'll want
to have on your calendar on September
14th will be your interviews with the
candidates and we schedule longer
interviews than we do with the panel
interviews so you have a chance to uh to
really talk with the candidates and then
finally uh on Friday September 15th we
have the deliberation and so we hope
that you have that on your calendar as
well Friday date night
really date morning yeah it's the
morning to the morning to the morning
meeting yeah
that it's on
your it
saying this to
us I'm sorry counsel is it this says 3
P.M Friday 15 is it is it where does it
say that c well I just have a on my
calendar M
says for
okay it should be in the morning okay
yeah what we'll do during
that Thursday is a big chunk of the day
because we have to do all the yeah all
the Thursday is a killer yeah we do an
hour and a half interviews so you know
that's six hours if you have four
candidates six hours of interviews so um
going back to the deliberations uh that
Friday morning um we will download uh
your perceptions from your interviews we
will then share with you all the
feedback that came back from uh the
references from the background checks
from the panels from the community or
from both
receptions um and after that um we
facilitated your deliberative process
and um at that point uh if you have
chosen the candidate to move forward uh
what we do is I'll step out of the room
I'll call that candidate make sure
they're going to say
yes and uh come back into executive
session let you know and I've only had
one person say no ever but um
[Music]
and number two so yeah I mean in the the
case of the person said no they they
then moved on to number two on their
list um but uh we'll come back in to you
and you come out of executive session
and you have the opportunity then to
announce who the selected candidate is
and all that's happening on Friday yes
okay does that mean we'll have a regular
Council session on Friday yeah at a
undetermined time after the executive
session concludes so it's a little how
do you how do you announce
that the timing thought you had time is
it a Time certain well we yeah what we
do is say it will be no no sooner than
no sooner than sure yeah but but
following the executive very short
meeting yeah so are we having a Monday
meeting too on the
18th no we're gonna live here it's on my
cter I'm just curious I move that we
don't trying to go camping after that so
I'm trying to figure out we we'll we'll
talk with the mayor about the agenda all
right question and um there's some
biasness in my question here so I'll try
not to put it out there describe very
quickly the
community reception meeting is it what's
the invitation look
like so we rely on on you folks we will
give you an invite to advertise it to
the community and we rely on you folks
to get the word out through your
networks um and and then it's it's
whoever comes now what we do is we treat
it like speed dating so we have we
divide the the groups up we divide the
audience up into however many candidates
there are so if there're four we have
four different tables and then we rotate
the candidates between them in 15 or 20
minute intervals so everybody has a
chance to meet and talk with them um and
then when they leave they have an
opportunity to fill out survey either on
paper we we have a QR code too that we
use so they can just do a QR code and
fill it
out left or right
thing all right any any other
questions so um is I know we've got the
um session coming up here right to adopt
this stuff right and then in between
that and that week of the 11th is there
any other did I
there's any other required attendance
from
us uh we will have an executive session
on August 21st to determine the
finalists
okay and we we will keep you informed
through Jeff and Angie um as to how
things are going so and I just want make
sure you're I you know I just hear about
these you know people that got hired and
afterwards they you know find out
horrible things that any Google search
would
have it says I know I when we hired you
it said that you guys do all that yes
before before we do the zoom interviews
we do a Google search on anything that's
work
rated um so that it so if they haven't
brought it up in their application we
have a chance to ask them about it okay
so we want to make sure to give them a a
fair opportunity to share their site
so they look into
[Music]
our all right I I have one other item
I'd like to address with you and that
has to do with the salary
range um and so first of all um what
we're looking uh for in this salary
range is to
have to have one that that sort of gets
at the core skills and experience that
you're looking for that's hitting the
mark in terms of those C that level of
candidate can you start with what does
Jordan
make I can yeah just yeah no so and I
think it's important to account for the
cost of living adjustment that was
included in the budget that you all just
adopted so accounting for that uh we
budgeted for the city
manager to make
$163,000 uh in the upcoming year
starting July 1 for contacts includ
little things like the car telephone
that's just gross that's other stuff I
believe that's just salary um it may
include the budget Jordan didn't take uh
benefits so there would be some
additional it doesn't include health
insurance it doesn't that's
just but it doesn't include car phone
some of the other things that we expect
them to be gone
on I believe it's
just Jeff do you know how that Stacks up
against Maybe
five or seven like City sizes I think ER
er's about to discuss that actually yeah
he's gonna hand you a piece of paper so
Jeff can you answer though how much the
we'll call it the perks or the benefits
or
the 450 is the car allowance and 60 is
the data alls thank
you do you have kind of a cost of
government of the whole
position whole not out of my brain at
the moment but I can provide that now
their health insurance and all of that
is no different you go full family it's
about 2,000 cost of the city the
employee will pick up 10% of that cost
so the same as all the other city
employees
okay um so I I'm gonna hand this out and
that we have 10 comparable cities that
we looked at we averaged them out um I
also threw in um some recent recruitment
ranges from recruitments that we've done
in the last year um so you can see what
other cities were offering in terms of a
range um and then we have a
recommendation but I'd like to just kind
of set a little context here um so we've
been in a situation the last two three
years where the Market's uh been
saturated with opportunities and during
the pandemic we really saw a smaller
group of pool of candidates come forward
um where we used to get 30 40
applications um we were starting to get
more along the lines of
10 um that that has started to change
and the last one we did we I believe we
had 25 applications uh on on the last
city manager recruitment that we
did it was a very deep
bench um and I is that a small City on
the other side of the mountain it might
have been on the other side of the
mountain
yes um they had some very compe
comptitive
candidates yeah I don't
know so um you know we're also facing a
situation with the housing market where
most cities are um are seeing a rise in
in housing and so it makes it more
difficult for candidates who might be
coming from a smaller city where the
where the housing is cheaper to be able
to move to a city where it's more
expensive
um we've also seen inflation happening
right now and that's impacting uh
salaries as well as um we're finding
that candidates are being more selective
uh because they can
be um and so you know it still is uh
we'll see how things go but it's still a
candidate's market at the moment we may
be seeing a pivot here um but uh it it's
such that we have seen candidates drop
out of the finalist
process along the way too so so as
you're getting ready to put that out
what does a range mean I mean I
understand what a range means in the
private sector what does a range mean
for these kinds of
posters what determines where they land
within the range well that is uh first
of all that's your discretion um but
generally speaking the more experience
and the more check boxes that they've
checked off on your attributes list okay
should bring them any other private
sector yeah we advertise it for range
and then we determin where they fit
within that yes I thought we negotiate a
little bit with Jordan there will be
negotiation there was with Jordan I'm
pretty sure that we ended up figuring
out because he wanted something and we
wanted something else yeah you know on
once you've made a selection there's
still a
hey stretch legs I did want to clarify
councelor exner I I was able to look it
up the number of 163 actually does
include the vehicle it doesn't include
any other but it does include the
vehicle does just say how long the city
manager been in those roles that have
that W so I'm assuming the City Works a
lot the state they go they have steps
that they move so it used to be so our
city manager used to be on our salary
schedule and it's not anymore it's a
contract so we have a
okay all right so what you have in front
of you uh there were 10 cities that we
we took a look at and these are current
salaries uh ston Malala Silverton
Cottage Grove Monmouth Gladstone
Cornelius the DS Troutdale and
Dallas um and the populations range uh
between uh 8,000 and
18,000 uh population and these are in
order of the size of the
population uh so you can see the
salaries there on the right hand side
and um you know the the lowest salary
being uh with Silverton at at 135 and
change 135,000 and change um the Sal the
highest salary being in Gladstone uh at
185,000 and change so that that's kind
of the range these salaries average out
to
154,000 uh actually I didn't realize we
put the sense in there but
uh 451 and 33 cents um so that's what
the average looks like the recent
recruitments that we've done sisters uh
had $ 120 to
$60,000 range with a population of 3,400
ston was 122 to
152,000 with a population of 88,200 and
some uh Fairview uh was 135 to 160
population over just over 10,000 and
Cornelius uh was 140 to
175,000 uh and their population is
14,000 and some so um looking looking at
what other cities have been doing uh
look looking at the average um and what
you're looking for our recommendation is
that you go out with 140 to
170,000 as your as your range why not
175 you can I mean log for not being the
top dog out there what is
it um well we wanted to make sure that
we were uh being within your your
budgetary means now
um so I I guess I would have to defer to
you on that obviously the higher you
go the more qualified candidates
theoretically will apply yeah right and
and sorry does this the salary we're
talking about include the the car thing
or not that's a negotiation Point some
some of this is subject to how you
negotiate I think people are going to
interpret this as Bas sub right I agree
with that I agree with that
so so one one concern I I have maybe is
having just gone through the interum
city manager
negotiation uh with Tyler and so I I
have a little bit of a feeling for what
the assistants and and and folks that
are direct reports are making I mean
wouldn't we possibly be in a situation
where we'd be hiring a city manager
that's making less than their direct
reports under this salary range
we should not be so our direct reports
will be under this amount at the
low yes so we're we're okay there
mayor okay okay well somebody was
mentioning 175 and you know the car
allowances ends up to be almost $5,000 a
year so going with 170 and then having
another five my point is when you
advertise this if if you have a 17 it
looks more attractive than a 170 that
doesn't mean that we won't offer 140 for
the car allowance depending on their
qualifications
but it's I I I think we should be
competitive with a Cornelius that's or
whoever else goes out you know at the
same time as or the Troutdale city
manager well that's exactly right I
don't want any I don't want anyone not
applying because of the high-end part of
that salary is kind of where I'm at I I
I want someone who thinks that they
deserve more than that to consider
applying for this position and we are
growing we're definitely would be
wanting to give this person this
person's really good raises as to go
along did Jordan I would expect us to
think the same kind of respects so I
guess I'm in favor of
175 Angie how does the do these work
like normal
civil normal City jobs where there's
like you bump up at you know a certain
percentage or anything like that no so
all your directors are they're all on
the salary schedule and they'll max out
at you know range seven um but this is a
contract position so you guys can set
the salary with what you want um my
understanding right now with budget wise
like pretty much anything over 165 170
there's going to have to be a budget
adjustment so I guess my question is you
bring you bring you bring somebody in at
160 right is there is is there a a
process to get them to 175 or is that
something that we continue to negotiate
so how we had Jordans is that as we do a
cost of living that city manager also
gets cost of living increase so they'll
get that bump and then you do have
negotiability in regards to how you say
somebody may say I don't want the car
allowance I would prefer to have this or
you you have some ability to do some
negotiation there um but I don't know if
I'm answering your question no just I'm
wondering how we how we get from 16 to
the top end is that is that a set like
three and a half% a year on top of your
Cola or is that is that is that
something that we negotiate every year
when we do their their evaluation what
does that look like there you go that's
it it's the evaluation typically a city
manager applicant will that'll be an
important part of the they'll say I want
an annual review and that'll be an
opportunity to discuss but this range
doesn't limit what those RWS go this is
just this is the initial
initial it's not like a government pay
where that is the max you'll ever get to
while you're a grade 14 or whatever it's
a contract employee it's different I'm
assuming we could start at 140 if you
wanted to negotiate yes you could but
that's the same go ahead I'm in favor
175 at least there's a part of me that's
even wondering about 1 so I have a
question on that um so and I don't know
how I'd like to get some insights on how
with with Jordan but you know if you say
top is
175 and then you pick person you know
can they say well you know I I want I
want 180 or whatever so I mean
does is 175 our top or or is that the
top where they the person the selected
person starts
negotiating how did that work with
Jordan I guess well it's different with
Jordan because we had him on the salary
schedule so when somebody's on the
salary schedule you can't go off you
can't go over the top of that salary
schedule so if 120 is the top that is
the top we can provide there's some
additionals like you can add the car
than or the data allowance in this
scenario um you have negotiability so
you really don't have a to what you put
a range down you are trying to say to
the candidate this is the top of the
range we're not going to go above that
and the reason for that is based off
what you have as your attributes and
what you are requiring of this candidate
you are saying this position is worth
this salary so you want a range for
negotiability but you also don't want to
not have have a top to also say this is
what this physician can pay for um
that's where it gets a little bit like
you look at a trout or you look at um
let's say you're out in mou and you
can't find a candidate to go out there
they may pay more than say we are
because it's really difficult to get a
candidate to move out to M and stay so
sometimes you're also paying based off
location or difficulty in recruitment um
I actually think we will probably
believe a lot of candidates for this
position even if we go to 175 counselor
um you're going that's a good that's a
good healthy range but where do you so
with the negotiations then you know do
we start in the middle and and and then
we say well we since you only have you
know 10 years and not 20 years that's
why we're not going up to 175 or how
does all that so so welcome to
Recruitment and
to and to uh working on negotiations so
basically you take a look at the
candidates the top four and then you
interview and as Eric said earlier in
essence you're going to say this
candidate is coming to us highly
qualified then you know you're probably
going to need to put out an offer that's
quantifying to that experience if you
have somebody coming in that maybe
doesn't have the same thing and we know
that they're going to be on a learning
curve here here and here then we're
going to say all right you're probably
going to start lower on that range and
then we're going to work it up you also
have the flexibility to say in a year
we're going to re evaluate and at that
point we're going to give you a $5,000
bom so you guys have some flexibility on
what we work on it's going to be based
off the candidate that sits in front of
you and what they're bringing to the
table I don't know if that okay so I'm
also looking at your list of prices here
on different city managers in and around
us I
see there's a lot of them that would be
getting a raise assuming that they were
highly skilled and I have to know a
couple or three of the these um I I like
being able to say to some of these local
folks you know might get a raise if you
so to me I think up the the annual
amount I think is
important I stretch her even further
because I looked at the same thing Carl
I said look at State and
Malala and sub these are cities all
under 10 say 10,000 or less we're bigger
than them they're 135 to 149
why shouldn't our minimum be 150 and
then why can't our top be
180 because that's a range and if you're
starting at 150 you're beating all your
small cities that are underpopulated for
us so you're going to get one of those
city managers or somebody with
experience coming to us that's going to
have upward mobility and then if you
have somebody in in a larger City like a
like it says here like a a trale for
instance who's 177,000 I'm not
advocating for those managers at all in
the same positions that that's not going
to be a far stretch for them to come to
Sandy and make the same amount of money
which is a smaller town so I I like the
150 to 180 range myself so let's
consider a hypothetical example of an
assistant um city manager who's making I
don't know what's our last contract with
our Deputy with our acting our acting
that R for me manager let me do some
quick MTH yeah because that he would be
representative of a candidate coming in
who hadn't been in the top seat but
maybe was reasonably qualified right
so how big of a bump do you want you
don't want to make it too big you know
you want nice like on the old schedule
there' be a step one coming in right so
what's that where where they ATS but the
numbers don't say this is what we have
to it's just what we are thinking about
and I guess to Angie's point it could be
140 if we said 150 to 180 for example or
185 if we get to that kind of C it's
quite the welcoming package though
last in the bottom tier of the range you
posted sure I agree with you face it
you're going to start mid level
absolutely I mean that's where you're
that's where most that's where most of
this is gonna start and I will point out
Jordan's you know if if that included
the car stuff his you know actual salary
was like
158 his actual salary if you well I mean
so I did the math here it at 163 if you
just add the data would be 163
720 but the car allowance is like they
said that was included in that number
right and that's with the that's with
the increase with the cola right right
okay and so his actual salary was like
158 which is what this is that's why I
said our range our range doesn't include
right what we're talking about 175 that
doesn't include a cart thing right it's
just a starting St and so that's what
I'm saying that's you know I I mean I
guess if you want to go up to 175 I can
go along with that but I'm not we don't
have to have the car just because Jordan
had it doesn't mean
this coun I mean so I mean that's just a
way
to that was if I may you wrong that
seemed like just looking at it from a
different level it just seemed like kind
of like a way to circumvent the pay
scale you to there's different ways to
incentivize the P there we go thank you
so I mean but we're lump with doing this
we would just be kind of lumpy not in
there and we don't need that incate in
theory
anymore where I I guess I'd like to be
able to offer like after a year you know
because you never just know what you're
going to get and so I'd rather kind of
start one place and then say we're
looking at a you know a 10% you know a
cola plus what you know based on a
positive you know and you will I'm
assuming Eric that when we provide
profiles there's also going to be in
their salary requirements that the
candidat is also we're going to be made
aware of so a lot of this is a little
bit like the cart in front of their
horse that as we get closer this will be
an actual easier decision than it seems
right now yeah so
what council if I may um the the range
that you put out right now is really you
know how do you want to attract people
just to put their application in once
you've selected a candidate you have all
sorts of bells and whistles available to
you to put together a package whether
it's a car allowance or whether it's a
not of vacation time or whether it's uh
something else but that that happens
during the negotiation phase um and so I
I would encourage you to just think
about what is it that what's the range
that's going to get them to put the
application in and then you can worry
about the bells and whistles when you
get to the negotiations so this side of
the room was at
175 I'm actually with Chris I'm cool
with a one 150 to 180 that 150 to
180 I can live with that how about you
mayor yeah I'm good with
that
kle does
that put too big a jump
you 18 if you want to keep it at if you
want to keep it 140 to 180 let's keep it
let's keep it at the low inch just in
case we get somebody at the entry at
that entry level that probably won't
with if if we get that many candidates
but 180 is are actually GNA be you know
when you add all the other add-ons yeah
it's 140 to 180 at this point it's all
just bait just to get somebody jump at
that hook right yeah yeah this this is
not a Amendment this is just for
advertising purp 140 to 180 I mean if
that
Ian you good with that absolutely so I I
just want to I just want to confirm what
I think I just heard so you want 140 to
180 yeah okay very good that that's a
that is a good range um I will tell you
that I'm already getting phone calls um
in interest in this position so uh I I
think uh we're heading in the right
direction sweet well then let's move it
down to
120
Le we just
away the negotiations will be later
nobody this is the mayor anyway
so
I are we there anything else you had to
cover I we have everything we need be
able to move forward so okay mayor I
think that's everything if you have any
closing remarks no just thank you
everybody uh really exciting um I think
obviously we're all on the same page and
thank you for your presentation uh
really appreciated the work done so
far thank you all right I'll go ahead
and close the work session thank you
everybody you're going have