[0:00] good all right looks like we got
[0:03] everybody gathered I apologize for not
[0:05] being able to be there with you in
[0:07] person uh this evening uh but I think
[0:10] for the most part we're just going to be
[0:12] receiving information and uh providing
[0:14] some feedback at the end so I'm I'm sure
[0:17] we can all conduct ourselves fine uh in
[0:20] my absence here uh with that Jeff can
[0:23] you please call the
[0:25] role yes councelor maon pres councelor
[0:28] Smallwood
[0:32] oh she uh she's excused thanks thank you
[0:35] mayor uh councelor Sheldon here counc
[0:38] Walker here councelor exner here
[0:40] councelor Hokinson here mayor pulam here
[0:45] um please note that um Tyler uh councel
[0:48] did inform me Tyler deemed informed me
[0:51] this morning uh that he has decided to
[0:54] go ahead and put his name in the uh in
[0:56] the ring here uh to be our next city
[0:59] manager uh so with that in mind I've
[1:02] asked uh Jeff opara to kind of uh and I
[1:05] think I always brutal brutalize your
[1:07] name Jeff I apologize uh but I've asked
[1:10] Jeff to kind of Staff the meeting for us
[1:13] uh this evening uh so Jeff will you go
[1:15] ahead and take us through the
[1:18] presentations sure thank you
[1:20] mayor uh Council I'm pleased to
[1:22] introduce Eric Jensen who is the
[1:24] principal of Jensen strategies LLC uh
[1:26] the city retains Jensen strategies to
[1:28] manage our recruitment process process
[1:30] for the search for our new city manager
[1:34] uh Jensen strategies has conducted a
[1:36] very thorough process so far they've
[1:38] already offered a public input
[1:40] opportunity for the community back on
[1:41] June 1st they've sent an input survey to
[1:44] All City staff and they've conducted uh
[1:47] one-on-one stakeholder interviews with
[1:49] uh all the counselors and all the
[1:51] department heads um all of these efforts
[1:54] have been centered around the question
[1:55] of what are the attributes you're
[1:57] looking to see in sy's next city manager
[2:00] well the result of that work is before
[2:02] you tonight you have the draft position
[2:05] profile which includes hiring standards
[2:07] and criteria as well as policy
[2:09] directives for the new city manager it
[2:11] also includes hiring procedures and a
[2:14] schedule and so the purpose of tonight's
[2:16] work session is to allow the opport the
[2:20] council an opportunity to discuss these
[2:22] documents make changes or suggest
[2:24] changes if you deem them
[2:27] necessary um but per state law formal
[2:30] adoption of these documents is required
[2:32] at a regular meeting with a public
[2:33] comment opportunity if the council
[2:35] wishes to conduct the actual finalist
[2:39] interviews uh and deliberations in
[2:42] executive session uh which we recommend
[2:44] at the end of this process so to do
[2:46] those things in executive session you
[2:47] have to go through these uh steps here
[2:50] at the beginning with public comment
[2:52] opportunity so unless there are any
[2:54] questions about any of that um happy to
[2:56] throw it over to Eric Jensen
[3:01] okay thank you Jeff I I don't know how
[3:03] close I have to get to the microphone
[3:04] you're fine okay you're good okay good
[3:07] uh some places I go to they they
[3:09] practically make you swallow the
[3:10] microphone so I always ask um thank you
[3:16] Jeff and uh thank you mayor and councel
[3:19] uh great to be here today um Jeff that
[3:22] was probably one of the best intros uh
[3:24] that we've had in one of these sessions
[3:26] so thanks very much you covered a lot of
[3:28] bases I was going to cover so
[3:31] um so uh first of all thank you for
[3:34] giving us the opportunity to uh conduct
[3:37] this recruitment uh we appreciate the
[3:39] opportunity we're honored that uh you've
[3:41] entrusted us with that um and also thank
[3:43] you for the time that you've put into
[3:45] this in advance and doing the individual
[3:47] interviews uh which has given a lot of
[3:50] fodder for what we uh produced for you
[3:53] today so um as Jeff said uh the the
[3:58] purpose of this work session is to
[4:01] review these documents uh that we have
[4:04] uh drafted for you and uh to get any
[4:07] feedback that you might have uh prior to
[4:10] adopting uh adopting the documents uh on
[4:14] June
[4:15] 20th the um we also at the end want to
[4:20] talk a little bit about um the salary
[4:23] recommendations um we've done some
[4:25] comparables and looked at those and we
[4:28] have a recommendation for for you with
[4:30] regard to the range that you might want
[4:32] to advertise for we'll get to that at
[4:34] the
[4:34] end um so as Jeff mentioned uh there
[4:40] were a number of things that went into
[4:42] the to the uh information that created
[4:45] this document and of course the
[4:47] interviews there were 18 interviews
[4:50] seven of course with all of you and then
[4:53] uh 11 uh with uh staff so uh in addition
[4:58] to that we had staff survey as Jeff
[5:01] mentioned uh we had 17 responses in the
[5:04] staff survey uh we did a community uh
[5:08] survey as well online we had three
[5:10] responses there and we did give the
[5:13] opportunity for uh Community uh comment
[5:16] online uh at a uh facilitated uh session
[5:20] uh but unfortunately no one uh came to
[5:23] that
[5:24] so the a few points about uh the profile
[5:29] um
[5:30] this document the profile which is
[5:33] referred to as appendix a uh in your
[5:36] packet is um an important document for a
[5:40] number of reasons so as uh Jeff
[5:43] mentioned uh you do need to adopt uh a
[5:47] profile uh in order for you to be able
[5:49] to hold executive session on this
[5:50] recruitment going forward um but even
[5:54] more so um we also use this document to
[5:58] set the criteria by which we evaluate
[6:02] candidates all the way through the
[6:03] process so we use it uh to establish the
[6:07] criteria for the applications we use it
[6:10] uh for the criteria for all of the uh
[6:13] all of the interviews that are done all
[6:15] the way through the process uh because
[6:17] we want to stick to what you want in the
[6:21] next city
[6:22] manager um you'll note that with regard
[6:27] to if you've read through the document
[6:29] which I'm sure you have um you'll note
[6:33] that maybe some of the points that you
[6:35] brought up with us aren't in there and
[6:39] when we're doing these interviews we're
[6:40] looking for a Nexus a Nexus of opinion
[6:44] so that we can find out where is the
[6:48] commonality uh in what people are
[6:50] looking for and then we try to thread
[6:53] that needle uh as as closely as we
[6:57] can um
[7:00] we also uh I also want to make mention
[7:04] that uh as you read through that
[7:07] profile uh I've had other councils say
[7:11] when they've looked at the profile well
[7:13] it's it looks like it we're looking for
[7:16] a unicorn and um and to a certain degree
[7:21] uh you are um and you're not unique in
[7:25] that regard uh but what we want in that
[7:28] profile is
[7:30] uh what is does your ideal candidate
[7:32] look look like or what what does your
[7:34] ideal candidates attributes
[7:36] have uh or candidate have attributes
[7:40] that candidates have yeah
[7:42] uh um
[7:45] and how many of those boxes can we check
[7:48] off so we're going to we're looking for
[7:51] the person that we can check the most
[7:54] boxes off as as humanly
[7:58] possible all right
[8:00] um before I go start going through the
[8:03] documents uh any uh initial
[8:07] questions okay I'll dive right into it
[8:11] so you have in your packet uh after the
[8:13] staff report uh you have uh the overview
[8:16] sheet uh the adoption of official
[8:19] position documents and that's just
[8:21] explaining why you're going through this
[8:24] uh process of uh adopting these two
[8:27] documents uh following that you have
[8:30] appendix a and
[8:33] um let me kind of walk through what we
[8:36] have here um and by the way the other
[8:38] thing I meant to mention is that we use
[8:42] the profile to generate the recruitment
[8:44] brochure
[8:46] so all the M material the attributes
[8:50] that you're looking for will go into the
[8:53] brochure along with other information
[8:55] about the community and so forth so um
[8:59] so when it came to minimum education uh
[9:02] and experience uh we're suggesting that
[9:06] you require a bachelor's degree in
[9:07] public administration planning political
[9:09] science related field and at least three
[9:12] years of upper level government
[9:14] management
[9:15] experience um and of course we always
[9:18] have uh the language of equivalent
[9:21] combination of Education experience may
[9:23] be considered because sometimes you do
[9:25] get that one candidate that has other
[9:29] ways of fulfilling those
[9:31] requirements uh we also suggest that you
[9:34] put down preferred education and
[9:37] experience as well and when we get to
[9:40] doing criteria this will translate to
[9:43] more points for candidates if they meet
[9:46] some of these uh preferred criteria and
[9:49] that in includes a an advanced degree in
[9:51] public administration uh such as an
[9:54] MPA um and five or more years of
[9:57] increasingly responsible public sector
[10:00] experience um previous Service as a city
[10:04] manager uh and our training uh in
[10:09] Economic Development and growth
[10:11] management is highly
[10:13] desired um and experience uh working in
[10:16] Oregon is also beneficial given the
[10:19] unique uh uh the unique uh elements that
[10:23] make up Oregon uh Oregon law
[10:27] so then we get into the you break in any
[10:30] time or sure uh what I would suggest is
[10:33] if you have clarification questions uh
[10:37] break in and then but otherwise at the
[10:39] end I'll come back and ask for comments
[10:41] if that's all right
[10:43] counselor means I have to have a memory
[10:46] so you got
[10:46] [Music]
[10:48] a I might fall asleep
[10:50] [Music]
[10:51] though I I did also you might uh found
[10:55] on your desk there is a a little swag um
[10:59] so you do have something to write with
[11:01] if you need it brought my own
[11:04] okay all
[11:10] right all right um so let me just go
[11:13] through these attributes uh and the
[11:16] first two attributes we have in every
[11:19] single recruitment that we do for city
[11:21] managers because these two the
[11:24] leadership and management category and
[11:26] the council relations are core to the
[11:30] work of a city manager now these uh the
[11:33] elements that are in uh these
[11:36] descriptions are consistent we make sure
[11:39] that they're consistent with what you
[11:40] told us um but we offer up that this
[11:47] these two attributes are Paramount uh to
[11:51] any candidate that you're looking for
[11:52] that you're looking for somebody who has
[11:54] the ability to oversee multiple
[11:57] departments to oversee multiple
[11:58] disciplines
[12:00] uh that can help generate an
[12:02] organization vision and a a leadership
[12:05] style that is accessible and and
[12:07] promotes communication and
[12:10] professionalism um and has uh experience
[12:14] in uh leading uh strategic workforce
[12:16] planning to meet Uh current and future
[12:19] staff capacity needs Council relations
[12:22] again paramont uh this person uh is
[12:27] directly accountable to you and so the
[12:30] ability for that person to uh maintain
[12:33] good relations uh with the council is
[12:37] important uh to be proactive in that
[12:40] relationship and professional fair and
[12:43] inclusive uh to always be aware of City
[12:47] operations and the legal o obligations
[12:50] of the city so that they can inform you
[12:53] of what of what's going on and what you
[12:57] may need to be uh talking about when it
[13:00] comes to Legal obligations and
[13:02] Regulatory
[13:03] Compliance um and
[13:06] also is get excuse me gives you the
[13:10] ability to make informed decisions it
[13:13] gets you the information that you need
[13:15] to make informed policy decisions as the
[13:18] city's Chief policymaking body
[13:21] communication came up uh a lot in our
[13:25] interviews uh looking for someone who
[13:27] with strong communication skills both
[13:29] for internal audiences and for external
[13:33] audiences and to that end being able to
[13:38] to communicate with diverse groups of
[13:42] people um and within that
[13:47] communication have emotional competency
[13:49] transparency humility inclusion ethics
[13:52] and
[13:53] accessibility um
[13:56] and also being able to promote two way
[14:00] dialogue and then finally this is when
[14:03] we talk about communication we're
[14:04] talking both verbal and written in this
[14:06] particular case actually most cases uh
[14:11] the next uh attribute not surprisingly I
[14:15] don't think is Wastewater and water
[14:18] infrastructure
[14:20] experience um you're looking for
[14:23] somebody who can facilitate large and
[14:25] complex capital projects particularly
[14:27] for Wastewater storm water and water
[14:29] water um I think it goes without saying
[14:32] that is a Paramount issue here in Sandy
[14:36] with all of the infrastructure needs
[14:37] that you have and the projects that you
[14:40] have planned and you're working
[14:42] on um but you're also looking for
[14:45] somebody who can lead the
[14:49] multifaceted portions of that because
[14:51] it's not just a matter of do you know
[14:53] how how to make sure that a capital
[14:56] infrastructure project is moving forward
[14:59] but do you understand how to to
[15:02] orchestrate being able to work with the
[15:05] Regulatory Agencies being able uh to
[15:08] work with your jurisdictional partners
[15:10] Your Community Partners and so forth and
[15:13] stay uh within the federal and state uh
[15:17] regulations um and uh also very
[15:22] important is the financing part of this
[15:25] and being able to be creative and
[15:28] effective in their financing approaches
[15:30] is going to be uh important as uh I'm
[15:33] sure you all
[15:34] know community and economic development
[15:37] it's the next category that came up and
[15:42] uh looking at being able to move forward
[15:46] with economic development and being able
[15:48] to seize those economic opportunities uh
[15:51] when they come to you and to proactively
[15:54] be able to uh look for those economic uh
[15:59] opportunities as they come
[16:01] up but it also takes a a certain degree
[16:07] of ability to think strategically about
[16:11] how do you set up policy and operations
[16:15] so that you're ready to take those
[16:17] economic opportunities when they come up
[16:20] and so we have put that in there and
[16:22] then uh at the last sentence there
[16:25] knowledge of Oregon land use law and
[16:27] urban renewal management is beneficial
[16:28] IAL this is those are two things that
[16:31] are are unique to Oregon um and so we
[16:35] have included
[16:36] that the next item is Public Finance um
[16:41] obviously uh you want somebody with with
[16:45] that's proficient in Public Finance
[16:47] skills um that's going to be responsible
[16:51] and strategic in fiscal
[16:53] management uh that's going to integrate
[16:56] uh your finances with with your city
[16:59] goals and includeed a diversity of
[17:02] Revenue approaches uh somebody who's
[17:05] going to be fiscally prudent with your
[17:06] taxpayer
[17:08] dollars uh and someone who is going to
[17:11] be looking at this from with a lens of
[17:13] developing maintaining uh sustainable
[17:16] Financial
[17:17] approaches um so that you have uh
[17:20] sustainable revenues Mo moving forward
[17:22] and again back to Oregon um experience
[17:26] with Oregon budget law and requirements
[17:28] is going to be
[17:31] helpful next uh item is facilities um
[17:35] when I'm talking about facilities here
[17:37] I'm talking about both in terms of
[17:41] employee workspace and in terms of uh
[17:46] facilities for Community
[17:48] use and so we heard that uh you would
[17:52] like to have somebody who understands
[17:54] facility planning and
[17:56] management uh and being able to
[17:59] integrate uh Workforce space needs uh
[18:03] with uh the future with future
[18:05] facilities uh planning and being able to
[18:09] strategically plan for the community's
[18:11] needs in uh facilities be the uh
[18:15] recreational resources or meeting spaces
[18:18] or any of the public facing
[18:21] administrative areas that you might
[18:23] have the next item is transportation and
[18:27] Transit uh
[18:30] and here we're talking about streets but
[18:33] we're also talking about your transit
[18:34] system and being able to effectively
[18:37] plan and maintain and construct streets
[18:42] as and being able to move forward uh and
[18:45] managing the transit system making sure
[18:47] that that's continuing forward um so
[18:50] you're looking for somebody who has
[18:52] experience developing traffic management
[18:54] approaches to support
[18:56] livability uh while facil in the high
[18:59] volume of visitors that you have going
[19:01] through um Sandy on a regular
[19:04] basis Community engagement also very
[19:08] much uh on the on the
[19:11] radar and what we heard was that you're
[19:14] looking for somebody who can maintain
[19:16] and enhance City's efforts to inform and
[19:18] engage the Sandy community in City
[19:24] business
[19:25] um within that you're looking for
[19:29] somebody who's going to in doing that be
[19:32] evenhanded uh with the
[19:35] community and is going to look for
[19:37] two-way dialogues leading toward
[19:40] consensus building when
[19:42] possible um and uh exuding the uh values
[19:47] of transparency inclusion collaboration
[19:51] and as I mentioned two-way uh
[19:53] communication and Community uh
[19:56] engagement intergovernmental relations
[19:59] there's a lot going on here uh that
[20:02] requires intergovernmental
[20:04] intergovernmental relations as we were
[20:07] uh hearing from you um and that's
[20:11] everything from just the the
[20:14] daytoday uh relationships that you might
[20:18] have with say the school district or the
[20:20] fire district uh or the county and the
[20:22] state and your Regulatory Agencies but
[20:24] also with these key projects that you
[20:27] have going on right now particularly in
[20:30] the Wastewater uh and the water supply
[20:33] uh realm uh and then of course with
[20:36] streets you you do have crossover there
[20:40] as well so being able to manage those
[20:43] intergovernmental relations is going to
[20:45] be
[20:46] key
[20:48] um housing policy and
[20:51] homelessness uh we heard uh a lot about
[20:55] uh that you want someone who understands
[20:59] housing Supply uh Housing
[21:03] Development that uh you may be in a
[21:07] point now where you're in a moratorium
[21:10] but uh it is anticipated that you're
[21:13] going to continue to grow as you have
[21:16] and so being able to think uh and plan
[21:20] for strategically how you're going to go
[21:22] about developing that housing Supply is
[21:25] going to be key um and how do you
[21:28] interface the public infrastructure to
[21:31] support those housing needs um and then
[21:36] also with regard to homelessness making
[21:39] sure that uh that you have the uh
[21:43] policies codes and resources to help
[21:46] address homelessness issues as they come
[21:51] forward then uh
[21:54] Broadband uh you are in a relatively
[21:58] unique situation compared to most
[22:00] cities uh with Transit and also with
[22:04] broadband and
[22:06] um I said I'm proud of it I'm proud of
[22:09] it absolutely and we heard that too so
[22:13] um so somebody who's familiar uh with
[22:16] Municipal broadband system operations
[22:18] would be
[22:19] desirable uh if at all possible uh you
[22:24] we I will say that uh that's going to be
[22:29] uh that's going to be part of the
[22:30] Unicorn yeah
[22:33] so uh and appreciation for Sandy uh and
[22:37] what Sandy is where Sand's been where
[22:39] Sand's going and what the culture of
[22:42] Sandy is um and then we always have in
[22:47] here the understanding of city
[22:49] government roles do they understand what
[22:52] their role is what the role of the city
[22:53] council is what the role of staff is and
[22:57] um and to how to navigate legally
[23:00] defined roles uh as they're doing their
[23:04] job now um I'm going to go through the
[23:09] policy directives and then we'll Circle
[23:10] back to the attributes and then to the
[23:12] policy
[23:13] directives um now the policy directors
[23:16] are called for in Oregon law um if you
[23:19] want to hold executive session that's
[23:21] part of the profile and that's why we
[23:23] put these in in here but it's also
[23:25] helpful for the candidates to understand
[23:28] what are the big issues that you have
[23:30] going on that they're going to need to
[23:32] be a need to Grapple with so not
[23:36] surprisingly number one is Wastewater
[23:39] infrastructure expansion
[23:42] um that we heard that in I think every
[23:45] single
[23:47] interview um and
[23:50] uh we have a description here that kind
[23:53] of takes it through where you've come
[23:56] from on this uh and uh the
[24:00] moratorium uh the consent
[24:02] decree and uh raising uh the fact that
[24:06] there have been concerns about utility
[24:08] Community concerns about utility
[24:12] rates so the next uh city manager is
[24:15] going to need to be able to move forward
[24:17] with those Wastewater improvements uh
[24:20] they're going to be uh need to work
[24:22] closely with your public works
[24:24] department to address the unfunded
[24:26] mandates that uh are part of that
[24:29] and to meet the terms of the consent
[24:31] decree and accommodate growth in a
[24:33] manner that's financially
[24:36] sustainable uh for the city and for the
[24:38] rate
[24:40] payers the second issue uh we heard
[24:43] about um drinking water
[24:46] reinvestment and this goes back to the
[24:50] drinking water system reinvestment
[24:52] project and I'm not going
[24:54] to go through the particulars that
[24:57] because you know that but just a cut to
[24:59] the chase here at the end uh where we
[25:02] always add what the role of the next
[25:04] city manager is going to be in these
[25:07] issues and the city manager is going to
[25:09] need to work closely with Public Works
[25:11] to ensure that this project moves
[25:13] forward efficiently and in a manner that
[25:16] is financially sustainable to the city
[25:18] and rate
[25:20] payers second I'm sorry third issue that
[25:23] we heard about was the Community campus
[25:25] project and uh we learned that that was
[25:30] that is a key project in your downtown
[25:32] area to develop a new park in the heart
[25:35] of
[25:36] downtown um and that you're you're
[25:40] currently uh Gathering Community input
[25:42] on that to come up with a development
[25:44] plan so the next city manager is going
[25:46] to need to take the Baton on that and to
[25:49] help run forward uh with it um so
[25:54] they're going to need to be able to be
[25:55] the champion of that
[25:58] uh and to to uh be able to help with the
[26:03] funding the community engagement that
[26:05] comes along with that and the
[26:07] Partnerships that will be needed to move
[26:10] that project
[26:11] forward police chief
[26:14] recruitment
[26:16] um it's evident that uh your police
[26:20] chief uh has decid to
[26:23] retire um and so you will be looking for
[26:26] another police chief and uh the next
[26:28] city manager is going to need to be
[26:31] involved in selecting that person um
[26:34] moving forward and in a way that's
[26:37] transparent and fair in the selection
[26:39] process for the next police chief and
[26:43] then lastly uh Workforce capacity and
[26:45] space needs assessment we heard a lot
[26:48] about space needs uh for
[26:52] employees um and we heard a lot about
[26:57] the limitations and at the same time
[27:00] hearing that uh you run a very
[27:04] lean very lean
[27:07] Workforce
[27:09] and to that end the next city manager is
[27:12] going to need to come in and assess that
[27:14] situation and assess what is needed in
[27:17] terms of space at the same time that the
[27:21] new city manager is looking at Staffing
[27:25] requirements and so being able to
[27:28] integrate those two concepts together
[27:30] and and the plan moving forward is going
[27:32] to be is going to be
[27:35] Paramount
[27:37] um so uh that gets us to the end of the
[27:41] profile and I'm GNA go back and ask you
[27:46] uh let's just take this section by
[27:48] section uh do you have any comments
[27:51] about the minimum education and
[27:54] experience
[28:02] question down okay I gotta find
[28:05] it it was more about a certification
[28:07] than it was oh it is um CR to have a a
[28:13] CPM you didn't have that in there for
[28:15] certified public managers um were those
[28:18] do they have to have just The Bachelors
[28:22] in public administration or could we add
[28:25] a CP C A CPM for prefer referred I know
[28:29] you had Masters for public admin but I
[28:31] didn't know about a certification for
[28:33] you could you could add that I I would
[28:35] recommend that it go in the preferred
[28:37] section uh because it'll severely limit
[28:39] your candidates if you put it in the
[28:42] minimum um I didn't think it should go
[28:44] in the minimum I just thought it as a
[28:45] preferred as a preferred
[28:48] Benchmark because some people might read
[28:50] at least from a Clarity standpoint and I
[28:53] want to make sure that the applications
[28:55] you know meeting all the requirements
[28:57] somebody might look at that and say okay
[28:59] I have a bachelor's but I don't have a
[29:00] master's and some sometime they they do
[29:03] have a certificate that they've taken
[29:06] that could be beneficial to their you
[29:07] know to their scoring on an application
[29:10] sure can you I'm not familiar with that
[29:13] certification so can you make the case
[29:14] for why
[29:16] that's good I mean there's a lot of
[29:18] Sears in my industry that
[29:20] aren't yeah and I guess from my
[29:23] standpoint just in my experience is
[29:25] somebody that has gone out and taken the
[29:27] time and enaging and effort to put forth
[29:29] the work effort into getting specific
[29:31] certifications for their skill set
[29:33] always enhances their do you have any
[29:36] history or experience with this specific
[29:38] certification no I can't say what's it
[29:40] called it's a certified public manager
[29:43] Eric isn't the isn't doesn't icma have a
[29:46] certified manager program that's the one
[29:48] that I've seen before yeah thank you
[29:51] Jeff public servant public servants in
[29:54] city and state government yeah so icma
[29:56] the the international City County
[29:58] Managers Association does have a
[30:00] certification uh program for managers
[30:03] and that list of people on that are it's
[30:07] an elite group if you will um I would
[30:11] recommend that if you wanted to put some
[30:13] uh certification down that that that
[30:15] would be the one that you put down as
[30:17] preferred um specifically so after
[30:21] masters of public administration comma
[30:23] or CPM certification Etc again I'm not
[30:29] to the council I'm not I'm not saying we
[30:30] should put it on the required section I
[30:33] just think that I'm looking at it says
[30:35] identif completed the required 300 hours
[30:37] of study through a CPM program
[30:39] accredited blah blah so it's not just
[30:42] like a weekend course right I have to
[30:44] defer to somebody who knows more about
[30:46] it than me which I know nothing
[30:49] so this is when you say it's an elite
[30:53] group usually Elite's a good thing it is
[30:57] in this case yeah okay so
[31:00] yeah so we'll include the icma
[31:04] certification as one of the preferreds
[31:07] so okay I was gonna bring this up under
[31:10] experience stuff but since you're
[31:11] already here I think I'll jump in um
[31:14] first
[31:15] off um in in my mind we are not looking
[31:19] for a beginner I've been through three
[31:23] city managers and I got to say that
[31:26] somebody who's had that experience
[31:27] before really made a difference in what
[31:29] happened here so would you say that
[31:34] Sandy would be best suited
[31:38] for a highly experienced city manager
[31:41] somebody that really has to have in my
[31:44] mind they do need it because of all the
[31:46] issues that are going on here but I
[31:48] don't want to over qualify the
[31:50] suggestion about having a pink um
[31:54] unicorn is no animal in this world that
[31:57] will fit all these things but sure I I
[32:00] also don't want to make the circle so
[32:02] small that we just don't get anybody I
[32:05] do want to get a nice round look at
[32:08] several candidates so
[32:11] are where do you perceive Sandy should
[32:14] be at should we be talking about you my
[32:16] perception of a highly qualified or do
[32:19] you think this is Sandy is more of a y
[32:22] smaller
[32:23] City they don't attack me but I do not
[32:26] think that we have a lot of big ISS
[32:27] issues for a city our size yes and you
[32:31] do um and I I would
[32:36] recommend or or think that it would
[32:41] be beneficial for you to have someone
[32:45] with City management experience or at
[32:48] least someone who has been in the sea
[32:52] Suite um someone who's who's been
[32:56] interacting with councils somebody who
[33:00] understands what it is to plan
[33:02] Citywide and to go across multiple
[33:06] disciplines in the public
[33:08] sector um so we do have in the preferred
[33:12] uh a statement in there about city city
[33:15] manager city manager experience which
[33:18] means we're going to give extra points
[33:19] if somebody has that
[33:22] experience Service as a city manager as
[33:24] well as experience and or training in
[33:26] Economic Development and growth man
[33:27] management is highly
[33:29] desired experience working in organs
[33:32] benefici I was thinking of counselor a
[33:36] requirement of a bachelor's degree in
[33:40] one of these areas as a minimum but but
[33:43] I know you have it in or though oh here
[33:47] it's or related
[33:51] field yeah it looked to me like that was
[33:54] the degree
[33:55] was um equal to or as important as the
[34:00] experience so you have either one I
[34:03] interpreted that as the degree would be
[34:05] preferable in these areas but it could
[34:07] be an alternative degree so if we had a
[34:09] biology BS who happened to have 10 years
[34:12] as a city manager we would look had him
[34:14] because he would have met the minimum
[34:15] side correct that's that's what I took
[34:17] that as well and that's kind of the
[34:19] place that I'm saying I'm I'm conflict
[34:21] with you want to require previous City
[34:24] management experience as a minimum uh is
[34:28] that what you're saying I was looking at
[34:30] the degree I don't need a doctorates but
[34:34] let's just be people um the difference
[34:37] between Jordan leaving who had the
[34:40] degree and some of the other city
[34:43] managers that were pulled in because
[34:45] they happen to
[34:46] have understanding of city was in my
[34:49] mind a significant
[34:51] Advantage having a the degree and
[34:54] experience was really key for what
[34:56] Jordan's able to do
[34:58] but isn't that and isn't that there
[35:00] though because it's it's listed as it's
[35:04] listed as preferred not required I mean
[35:06] so really doesn't the question come down
[35:08] to do you want to limit our pool of
[35:12] candidates that we get to interview and
[35:13] have in front of us uh by making that a
[35:16] requirement or would you rather have a
[35:18] more diverse pool that we can have in
[35:20] front of us and I guess I land and
[35:22] having a more diverse pool um while also
[35:25] trying you know under preference saying
[35:27] sure prefer this but maybe we find
[35:29] somebody that has you know 15 years
[35:32] worth of city manager experience but
[35:34] doesn't have that
[35:36] educationally uh but we we we find that
[35:38] individual be to be a top
[35:40] candidate that's why I was making the
[35:43] statement mayor is that I I don't want
[35:46] to make this pool so small that we get
[35:48] one person or nobody I do want to make
[35:51] it wide enough that we do get a good
[35:53] variety of folks from different kinds of
[35:55] perspectives
[35:56] [Music]
[35:57] I just don't want to waste people's time
[35:59] in mine looking at folks that just don't
[36:02] cut it so I have a different opinion on
[36:05] where your degree comes from or what
[36:07] your degree is in and
[36:10] that and it's probably still because of
[36:13] my own background I spent very little
[36:15] time working in my degree area most of
[36:18] my care has been outside of my degree
[36:20] area if somebody like Jenny 10 years
[36:23] from now wanted to apply for a city
[36:25] manager role she's a phenomenal person
[36:28] but she doesn't have one of those
[36:29] degrees she's an engineer right and you
[36:31] don't want to restrict somebody with the
[36:33] right experience so that's to me is
[36:35] really important to go after that or
[36:37] related field so you got some degree
[36:39] that's the minimum right but now tell us
[36:42] how your experience and training
[36:45] connects to the position description
[36:46] correct that that's what I'm looking for
[36:49] I guess that's why I'm looking at you
[36:50] Eric to say to me don't make this a
[36:54] requirement make this a preferred so
[36:57] that we do get the mix or you think
[36:59] there's going to be plenty of people
[37:00] applying we didn't get tremendous
[37:02] numbers for Jordan's
[37:06] position well we got a few and I think
[37:08] that's I guess that's what I'm looking
[37:09] at you for we're paying you the dollars
[37:11] to
[37:12] tell so uh putting it into the preferred
[37:17] category enables us
[37:20] to to make sure that those candidates
[37:24] that have those
[37:26] preferred uh
[37:28] attributes get pushed ahead of those
[37:32] that may not have that so you already
[37:36] have I think what you're looking for
[37:38] under the preferred category and by
[37:41] having it in here that tells us this is
[37:44] what you prefer this and we will move
[37:47] the those candidates forward that have
[37:50] those that have that meet those uh
[37:53] attributes
[37:55] okay me into it move on
[37:58] okay just on that the only thing I would
[38:01] maybe add is that you know under the
[38:03] minimum it says at least three years of
[38:06] upper level government management
[38:08] experience you know several of us Carl
[38:11] and I both have government management
[38:14] experience I would you know I would
[38:16] maybe just tweak that to say City
[38:18] management experience since we are
[38:20] looking to you know for to some extent
[38:22] for somebody with you know
[38:25] City or at least you know SE Town County
[38:29] so you know something like that I mean
[38:31] forest service is not you know that's
[38:33] government experience you know FK is
[38:35] government experience Army is government
[38:37] exp local yeah local government or
[38:39] whatever they're trying to restrict me
[38:41] from applying can you see
[38:44] that so Kathleen just to clarify though
[38:48] like uh Moma County government Metro
[38:51] Clackamus County government and OD do
[38:55] type uh you know Governor's Department
[38:57] dep th those candidates are are fine
[39:01] local government stand that covers it I
[39:02] think yeah okay good yep me too they
[39:07] would probably lose out on the other
[39:08] criteria so yeah I'm inclined to we'll
[39:11] sweep out the lower priority candidates
[39:14] pretty quickly so counselor that that is
[39:17] a helpful distinction um and we'll put
[39:20] local government in there uh we do get
[39:22] people who do apply from that have been
[39:25] with a federal government for years uh
[39:27] and have been middle management uh that
[39:30] have been managing a lot of people but
[39:33] it's not quite the same thing so the
[39:36] local government distinction uh does
[39:38] help that was a big quite not quite the
[39:40] same
[39:41] thing not at all resembl that
[39:47] remark all right um well we we kind of
[39:51] moved right into the preferred education
[39:53] experience so uh with those two items
[39:56] there with the discussion we had are you
[39:58] good with that all right um let's move
[40:01] down to the uh desired skills and
[40:04] attributes uh I'm going just open it up
[40:06] in general for that entire section if
[40:09] you have
[40:12] comments go
[40:14] again um this is just really to enhance
[40:16] Clarity and readability of it in my in
[40:19] my l so sure maybe not I feel like we
[40:22] have um infrastructure and Public Works
[40:25] scatter throughout of throughout this
[40:27] so when I look at page two it's got
[40:30] Wastewater and water infrastructure and
[40:32] Page Three has facilities and
[40:34] transportation page four has got
[40:36] Broadband I I think you should put all
[40:39] those together um so that it just
[40:42] improves the clarity readability of it
[40:44] because when I when I look at the
[40:46] desired skills and attributes and you
[40:48] have leadership management and
[40:49] communication and those are management
[40:52] level you know things that correlate
[40:55] when we're talking about infrastructure
[40:57] in public works Public Works is
[40:58] transportation water sewer energy
[41:00] facilities parks and rack safety you
[41:03] know and maybe having those all in a row
[41:06] so that they stay
[41:09] together are you saying are you saying
[41:12] leave them at separate paragraphs but
[41:14] just reorganize them so that they're all
[41:16] together yeah I mean this is all about
[41:18] preference now I I would put a I would
[41:20] put a title that says infrastructure
[41:22] public works and then drop all those as
[41:23] sub bullets underneath it because
[41:25] they're all in line but you have the way
[41:27] you have it templated right now is just
[41:29] individual templates and that's fine I
[41:31] would just push them all together so
[41:32] they're not separated by um community
[41:36] and economic development Public Finance
[41:39] you know those are that's just creating
[41:41] a gap and then you're going back to
[41:42] facilities it's just about the way the
[41:45] the page reads at least from my L yeah
[41:48] I counselor thank you for that comment
[41:50] and uh I I don't know maybe you were in
[41:52] our office when we were discussing how
[41:54] to put this together um we did have a
[41:58] similar conversation to that um but I'll
[42:00] tell you why we did we did this the way
[42:04] we did and then if you folks want us to
[42:06] change it we're happy to do that um
[42:09] we're we were looking at the order here
[42:12] is sort of almost an order of
[42:15] importance and the Wastewater and water
[42:18] infrastructure piece came through so
[42:21] clearly as something that you really
[42:23] need to have somebody to help navigate
[42:26] we felt we needed to peel that out and
[42:29] to make sure that it was its own uh
[42:33] attributes um and uh with re with regard
[42:39] to
[42:41] um uh trans transportation and and
[42:45] Transit uh we didn't we didn't and
[42:49] Facilities uh we didn't hear the
[42:52] volume that we heard with regard to
[42:55] Wastewater and water infrastructure so
[42:58] we moved it kind of down down the line
[43:00] now we can group those very easily and
[43:04] that's not a problem for us if that's
[43:06] what you would like to do and just for
[43:08] clarity I wasn't suggesting anything
[43:10] about the priority of importance it was
[43:12] just about keeping them grouped together
[43:14] so the candidate who's reading it would
[43:16] understand their role and everything
[43:17] that they saw so that again just Just My
[43:19] Lens I do have one more thing for yes I
[43:23] saw well it's really the next subtopic
[43:25] is policy directive
[43:27] but in the in the header of desired
[43:30] skills and attributes I don't recall
[43:32] seeing anything
[43:35] over know it was policy
[43:38] implementation policy what
[43:41] implementation and when I was you know
[43:43] we talking about implementing policies
[43:45] and ordinances and resolutions adopted
[43:46] by city council to ensure the compliance
[43:48] with the laws and regulations I I didn't
[43:51] really see that written anywhere amongst
[43:55] those things which I mean it's implied
[43:58] and then you go into the policy
[43:59] directives which tell them what are the
[44:01] key things the city's working on but I
[44:04] didn't see anything about actually
[44:05] implementing policy that the city
[44:09] council we that just for a
[44:12] second did have the sentence set up
[44:16] unique under housing policy and
[44:18] homelessness right but I wonder it's
[44:21] something that should be added to the
[44:23] general leadership and management
[44:27] in the
[44:28] broad perspective are you talking about
[44:30] the legislation as well as policy no
[44:33] well specifically um because I didn't
[44:35] see that knowledge knowledge and
[44:38] experience to support collaborative
[44:40] efforts to facilate policies codes and
[44:42] resources to and in this case it said
[44:45] address H because the reality is those
[44:47] things are core leadership things that
[44:49] we need in general I'm and adding that
[44:53] something like that to the that up front
[44:55] that first spiler plate leadership thing
[44:59] that be under leadership and management
[45:00] or Council relations um yes
[45:05] leadership so um yeah I I understand
[45:09] your point uh thank you and I think that
[45:11] this is something we could easily
[45:13] incorporate either under leadership
[45:15] management and or under Council
[45:17] relations I think that's the place that
[45:19] that would fall
[45:22] under we're we may not have talked about
[45:25] it a lot but one of our challenges left
[45:27] couple years has been to try to become
[45:29] more policy oriented and do a better job
[45:31] of managing our policies as a
[45:34] council okay all right we we will uh
[45:38] work on uh including that in one of
[45:40] those two sections or both um so
[45:46] so one thing I wanted to explore is uh
[45:50] coming off your your comments you just
[45:52] made about water and wastewater um and
[45:56] setting at aen priority I mean obviously
[45:59] I think we all agree it's a it's a huge
[46:02] priority um but just a reminder when we
[46:04] got Jordan you know his big um Capital
[46:08] project experience was I think it was a
[46:10] new city hall um in Lake iggo and so it
[46:14] doesn't have to be just so specific to
[46:17] Water and Wastewater it can be project
[46:20] management experience overall and while
[46:23] obviously Water and Wastewater is going
[46:25] to be in the foreseeable future for us
[46:27] I'd hate to only get you know retired
[46:31] Public Works directors and you know uh
[46:35] just you know people from that sector
[46:36] applying for this because while it's a
[46:38] priority I just I want to make sure
[46:40] we're not
[46:42] overemphasizing um how big of a priority
[46:44] that that skill set is for
[46:47] us can I because that's the one area
[46:49] that I had some criticism on if I read
[46:53] that Wastewater and water infrastructure
[46:55] it does feel like I'm recruiting fore
[46:57] project manager and we're not we're
[46:59] recruiting for an executive to oversee
[47:01] these projects from an executive level
[47:04] we have program managers and project
[47:07] managers and the Public Works director
[47:10] what we're looking for is somebody who
[47:11] has that ability to understand their
[47:14] role with the
[47:15] program as an
[47:18] executive to build on that and that was
[47:20] a big thing for me when I looked at this
[47:22] I'd like to see somebody who can ad
[47:25] administrate those difference segments
[47:27] there are some people in our staff that
[47:29] are so good it's mostly just stand out
[47:32] of their way let them do their thing
[47:33] with a little bit of guidance and guard
[47:36] rails and such but let them do their
[47:38] that's the kind of person I want I want
[47:40] somebody who can be a compliment to
[47:42] these highly qualified people we've done
[47:45] a pretty good job of getting some great
[47:48] uh staff in place would want to get in
[47:50] their way yeah it's a little different
[47:53] skill set appropriate sponsorship
[47:56] mentoring
[47:58] that's I just want to say all those
[48:00] comments really go with mine I I totally
[48:03] agree with all of that
[48:05] so if you look at that section if you
[48:07] take out sentence number two where you
[48:09] at I think oh Wastewater and water
[48:12] infrastructure if you if you take out
[48:15] sentence number two it starts with
[48:16] knowledge and ends with
[48:18] important right that everything else I
[48:21] think fits holistically for that role
[48:25] but that one is very specific about yeah
[48:28] having that that you know what I mean it
[48:31] it it is I really would like to see the
[48:33] word you know that executive role with
[48:36] programs and projects to me is what's
[48:39] missing yeah and you they're using the
[48:41] word facility right is that is that kind
[48:44] of that's what I well so keep in mind
[48:47] I'm a project manager program manager
[48:49] and that if we're appealing with people
[48:51] who understand that discipline bringing
[48:54] a candidate in who understands that
[48:55] discipline is
[48:57] powerful and so I would like it phrased
[48:59] in those words that relate to that
[49:02] discipline so if we were to strike that
[49:05] second sentence as you suggest uh and
[49:08] then to put some language in that really
[49:12] goes to the concept of working working
[49:17] with the staff uh and and being able to
[49:22] support uh staff's
[49:25] efforts moving forward is that so I I'm
[49:30] I'm I don't like that as much okay now
[49:32] I'm speaking for myself now but I so I
[49:35] agree with what Carl Carl's saying in
[49:38] terms of we have great staff we really
[49:40] do but I think more importantly is we
[49:43] run programs whether the budget programs
[49:45] or in the case of Wastewater we have a
[49:47] program manager outsourced that handles
[49:50] the entire program management things
[49:52] they're going to be returning all kinds
[49:54] of metrics but what I I need what we
[49:58] need that was pretty selfish to me what
[50:00] we need is that executive function and
[50:03] if if you're looking at it from a PMI
[50:06] perspective the role is that governance
[50:09] function or that sponsorship function
[50:11] somebody who understands the role as a
[50:13] sponsor of these programs and
[50:16] understands you know their roles
[50:18] in yes it is a facilitation Ro but it's
[50:21] not in the weeds facilitation it's
[50:23] coordinating finances priorities
[50:25] resources and so forth
[50:28] way up here being an overarching um uh
[50:31] Champion if you will uh well once again
[50:35] Champion is a little word if you go to
[50:37] PMI okay which that means something way
[50:40] down here not the executive okay I like
[50:44] Words more like coaching
[50:47] mentoring managing negotiations those
[50:51] are kind of words I guess I'm thinking
[50:53] of when I think about the executive
[50:57] conversation that dos having I think
[51:00] from where I sit um it's the ability to
[51:03] kind of understand the the jargon and
[51:07] the um the strategies and and all that
[51:11] data and the ability to kind of help you
[51:14] know if you had it you know Jenny's
[51:16] great because she's pretty she kind of I
[51:18] don't know dumbs it down for us but you
[51:19] know she she's able to deliver it to us
[51:21] so we can understand it you other
[51:23] Engineers you know tend to kind of
[51:25] really data heavy and you know you don't
[51:27] know what they're talking about so
[51:28] having a city manager who can help and
[51:31] help um synthesize the the data into
[51:34] kind of digestible levels of
[51:37] understanding for both the council but
[51:39] also for the public so having that
[51:41] understanding of the pro the
[51:42] infrastructure complex infrastructure
[51:44] projects regardless of whether it's
[51:46] water Wastewater or whatever um to be
[51:49] able to kind of um explain it and deal
[51:53] with the inter agency Communications and
[51:55] things like that so if I'm hearing what
[51:58] I'm hearing is that what you're really
[52:00] looking for is somebody who provides
[52:01] guidance and Leadership to support staff
[52:04] as they initiate what's in front of them
[52:07] so if uh for example you have Jenny you
[52:09] need that city manager that's going to
[52:11] be able to be whichever word we want to
[52:14] use but you're really providing guidance
[52:16] leadership and support to make sure that
[52:20] that staff can be successful in
[52:22] implementing their initiatives going
[52:24] forward and pration
[52:26] conflicts arise with that's getting to
[52:28] your executive level which is providing
[52:31] that and each director has different
[52:33] things that they need from that leader y
[52:36] so would that be a kind of a consensus
[52:39] so this a good time to talk about how
[52:40] much we're gonna pay this spectacular
[52:43] dude because if we're I'm just thinking
[52:45] to myself though we're asking for some
[52:47] pretty significant skills here I know
[52:51] that we're Happ down the road a little
[52:53] bit before we get to the dollars but I'm
[52:55] just thinking to myself are we going to
[52:56] Outsource ourselves we we looking at a
[52:58] Portland city manager versus the Sandy
[53:00] City Manager type do these kind of words
[53:04] no not at all I mean these are these are
[53:06] great clarifications and I I think
[53:08] points well taken um and we want to make
[53:11] sure that that that we hit the mark for
[53:13] you folks um and I understand exactly
[53:16] what you're saying about not getting the
[53:18] weeds not being the project manager but
[53:21] being the person who has the oversight
[53:24] that can help help move move these
[53:27] things forward at their level within
[53:29] their role as a city manager not that
[53:33] they're down in public works uh trying
[53:36] to look at uh every schematic plan that
[53:39] there is uh with regard to sewer pipes
[53:43] so yeah not like Jeff's experience as
[53:46] city
[53:47] manager yeah boots in the
[53:49] [Music]
[53:51] mud all right I think we've got enough
[53:53] to to work with it and um
[53:57] uh so I we'll take a shot at that but I
[53:59] would like to come back to your comments
[54:02] with regard to uh this all the different
[54:05] infrastructure elements that are kind of
[54:06] peppered throughout do you want us to
[54:09] try and combine those or are you good
[54:11] with those being
[54:14] separate I kind of think so my thoughts
[54:17] on these a lot of these go along our
[54:19] Council
[54:20] gos
[54:22] um so therefore I do like the idea of
[54:25] organizing a little bit better but I
[54:28] still think they should be separate
[54:31] par counselor uh when you say organize
[54:34] better uh what are you looking for so
[54:36] the way I initially understood what
[54:38] Chris was saying was put the the M
[54:42] better terms of Public Works style stuff
[54:45] in in column for right but I still
[54:48] rather than put it all as one big bullet
[54:50] and one big paragraph with subheads I do
[54:53] like the separate paragraphs for each of
[54:55] those special te so if we were to group
[54:59] these together that would get get at
[55:02] your concern well the bottom line would
[55:05] be are we going to give us give these
[55:08] people that are going to apply the
[55:10] correct information be able to
[55:12] understand what they're applying for I
[55:15] guess I I would expect this person to be
[55:18] intelligent enough to be able to read
[55:19] these
[55:20] things up with a response you know
[55:24] resume all the other Jensen Matrix which
[55:27] I look forward to finding all about you
[55:29] think higher people than I do I think
[55:31] that is a good idea what rich said
[55:33] because you know if somebody doesn't
[55:35] have a lot of water Wastewater
[55:37] experience but they have more you know
[55:38] streets or something else then they can
[55:41] kind of you know if they're all kind of
[55:43] grouped they can kind of speak to those
[55:45] skills that we're looking for with
[55:47] reference to the these you know projects
[55:49] that aren't exactly lined up with water
[55:51] waste water but integrate it you know
[55:53] their response in and I guess that's how
[55:55] I see that helping them organize their
[55:58] thoughts and also help us you know pick
[56:01] those skills out yeah okay I think we
[56:04] have some really great language and the
[56:06] council goals that can serve as kind of
[56:08] like the initial introduction to that
[56:09] section and then talking about
[56:11] maintaining sustainable infrastructure
[56:13] and then going into each section I think
[56:15] we have it yeah great well and by the
[56:19] way uh when it comes to rewriting this
[56:23] uh we will be working with Jeff and
[56:25] Angie uh
[56:26] on that to make sure we're hitting the
[56:28] mark so those guys
[56:37] understand okay all right uh any other
[56:41] comments on the attribute
[56:47] section that
[56:48] will we'll move on and let's uh look at
[56:54] the policy directives uh any comments
[56:56] with regard to policy directives follow
[56:58] the Wastewater infrastructure expansion
[57:01] the statement this I think it's the
[57:03] third sentence despite these efforts the
[57:05] high
[57:06] volume the high volume of sewage and
[57:08] water fls especially during what has led
[57:11] yes that that's incorrect so that
[57:15] overhaul we're doing is because of
[57:19] past problems and so that sentence we're
[57:22] talking about those overflows and things
[57:24] that was all before we started any of
[57:25] our upgrades we now reduced that
[57:28] significantly not to say that we never
[57:30] have a problem but it's it's not in
[57:32] spite of right
[57:35] okay so we'll change the beginning of
[57:38] that sentence to reflect
[57:43] that just make sure it's very in the
[57:46] past
[57:48] because you're absolutely right yeah
[57:50] just was looking
[57:52] over okay great perfect that's kind of
[57:56] we're looking for yeah I want to back up
[57:57] just for one sec only I was just mention
[57:59] as I was looking at it I'm missing
[58:01] anything about Emergency Management is
[58:03] that is that necessary to have that in
[58:05] there uh no and again you know where
[58:09] these came out of were from the
[58:10] interviews that we did and what came
[58:13] collectively from everybody that we
[58:15] interviewed um we did not hear a lot
[58:18] about Emergency
[58:21] Management I'm just pretty sure that's
[58:23] that was Jordan's role so that's one of
[58:27] his
[58:28] roles does need to be mentioned I would
[58:31] be one that didn't bring it up didn't
[58:34] occur to me well ditto because I don't
[58:36] think I brought it up obviously of did
[58:39] it's not it's not your forethought but I
[58:41] mean at the front of our brain right now
[58:43] but I think that I do agree that uh the
[58:46] Emergency Management and as we continue
[58:48] to work towards
[58:49] redundancies and all
[58:54] um I think that is something that I'm
[58:57] not saying it has to have its own
[58:58] paragraph would you like to add it under
[59:00] leadership and management attributes the
[59:02] ability to manage under crisis including
[59:05] emergency conditions I I think it
[59:07] belongs under intergovernmental
[59:09] relations because that's you that's kind
[59:11] of you know you're working with the fire
[59:13] department and you know Sheriff's
[59:15] Office all
[59:17] those yeah you know as a city manager
[59:21] you don't really have a lot of control
[59:24] over anything sorry I didn't mean to
[59:25] back you up
[59:27] that's that's fine rather hear about it
[59:29] now so I would say counselor um it may
[59:33] actually even deserve its own bullet it
[59:34] doesn't have to be a big one but it it
[59:36] involves intergovernmental but it also
[59:38] involves things just here within the
[59:40] city organization it's funny you know
[59:41] the chief knows that we on a staff level
[59:43] we had a meeting today on the natural
[59:46] Hazard mitigation plan which the council
[59:47] will be seeing later this year but kind
[59:50] of our initial work on it it doesn't get
[59:52] talked about a lot but it is important
[59:53] and it is something that you know
[59:55] probably should be mentioned at least in
[59:57] my opinion under its own section should
[1:00:00] everything goes that way if you got a
[1:00:02] big issue if the earthquake happens we
[1:00:04] won't even be thinking about Wastewater
[1:00:06] we all be going down to crack in a hole
[1:00:12] Port that describe it pretty well no
[1:00:15] words we have some we have some language
[1:00:17] that we could
[1:00:21] offer you don't like that if there's if
[1:00:24] there's an earthquake or totally going
[1:00:26] to be worrying about water and waste
[1:00:28] water but
[1:00:32] anyway
[1:00:34] bottles the uh should that to that point
[1:00:37] though rather than and and I'm cool with
[1:00:39] its own paragraph as well but should
[1:00:41] that go under uh preferred experience
[1:00:44] you know just and I'm just throwing this
[1:00:45] out there uh IC experience Emergency
[1:00:48] Management
[1:00:50] operations um as a higher level I mean I
[1:00:53] I know that's something that
[1:00:56] is an executive
[1:00:58] level piece of well that training
[1:01:00] especially around the IC and that um and
[1:01:03] I made I'm just throwing this out there
[1:01:04] as a spitball I I don't know if that's a
[1:01:06] good idea or not that's your discretion
[1:01:08] as to what you you want you know
[1:01:10] experience with IC or the ability to get
[1:01:13] it that's kind love because you know or
[1:01:16] is that something that's just too much
[1:01:17] into the weeds for something like I
[1:01:18] guess that's my question I'm a little
[1:01:20] concerned about there's a number of
[1:01:22] small I shouldn't say smaller less
[1:01:25] crucial in our face uh that could be
[1:01:28] lumped into this and I'm thinking about
[1:01:30] personnel management not that it's not
[1:01:32] important it's just that not in my face
[1:01:34] at the moment but the Emergency
[1:01:37] Management um and a little bit time I
[1:01:39] might come up with some others but I I
[1:01:41] think there are some things that we
[1:01:44] don't spend a lot of time with until
[1:01:46] they become in our face kind of stuff
[1:01:48] and so I'm a little concerned about
[1:01:50] pulling out each of those different
[1:01:52] items because again we're going to end
[1:01:54] up with this the uh sample is is the
[1:01:57] Unicorn thing you'll never get somebody
[1:02:00] has all these different pieces and and
[1:02:02] Emergency Management I let's just be
[1:02:04] honest with how much Focus we've given
[1:02:06] it as a council the last two and a half
[1:02:08] years which is half of one work session
[1:02:12] or something that didn't go well I
[1:02:14] mean if unless we choose to prioritize
[1:02:18] that and push it more regardless of what
[1:02:20] experience they come in with we're not
[1:02:21] going to do much there I think you would
[1:02:24] also gather that from based off their
[1:02:25] experience as a skill set that they
[1:02:27] would have that they could learn based
[1:02:29] off their their whole experience level I
[1:02:32] think that's what you could teach and
[1:02:33] don't I I thought I I kind of recall
[1:02:36] Mike having to go to the uh IC Ernie do
[1:02:39] you guys your staff go to IC training
[1:02:42] staff do well a lot of Staff try just at
[1:02:45] least the lower levels of it some more
[1:02:47] than
[1:02:48] others I was G say when I started with
[1:02:50] the state I had no government experience
[1:02:52] with IC and in my first year I went to
[1:02:55] several course works and then I came
[1:02:58] back and had to draft the agency policy
[1:02:59] for it so it just you could get trained
[1:03:03] in it I think it'd be unusual to see it
[1:03:06] in the qualification section for city
[1:03:08] manager but I mean but having it in the
[1:03:10] kind of further it in the into the body
[1:03:12] if this sort of makes sense does that
[1:03:16] okay
[1:03:18] R should it just fit under
[1:03:20] intergovernmental relations though I'm
[1:03:22] just trying to as to avoid a whole
[1:03:24] paragraph I guess in my
[1:03:26] and I'm fine with that I can be sold
[1:03:28] either way I don't know the right answer
[1:03:29] I've never done this before
[1:03:31] so so um again it depends on where this
[1:03:36] priority lies for you uh in conjunction
[1:03:39] with everything else that you've got
[1:03:40] down there on the attributes you know
[1:03:44] for for sisters for example Emergency
[1:03:47] Management was a big deal um for obvious
[1:03:52] reasons
[1:03:54] um I I only you can tell us how big of a
[1:03:58] deal it is for you at this point in time
[1:04:01] but if you were to include it in under
[1:04:05] intergovernmental relations then uh at
[1:04:08] least you've got a foothold if you will
[1:04:11] for Emergency
[1:04:12] Management uh and so that we when we're
[1:04:15] scanning through applications then we're
[1:04:18] catching that danan do you have a
[1:04:20] preference if it goes under inter
[1:04:22] government relations or Standalone
[1:04:24] paragraph
[1:04:26] no I mean it really can go under both I
[1:04:28] mean you're right Kathleen you're uh
[1:04:30] Jordan's you know doing everything from
[1:04:33] clackmas County Fire to clackmas County
[1:04:36] government to their emergency department
[1:04:39] to the state so it could go
[1:04:40] intergovernmental it could be a
[1:04:42] standalone I'm good either way Jeff why
[1:04:44] do you think it need be own
[1:04:46] paragraph probably because I'm in the
[1:04:48] midst of doing
[1:04:50] the I'm being quite honest yeah I I
[1:04:52] think that we were reminded and chief
[1:04:54] feel free to speak up if you disagree
[1:04:56] but I mean I think we were reminded of
[1:04:57] this is something that gets looked at
[1:05:00] every several years and it probably
[1:05:02] deserves more than that you know and I'm
[1:05:05] I'm I mean that's why I'm conflicted is
[1:05:08] but is but to the earlier point though
[1:05:10] if uh if everyone in government's going
[1:05:13] through this training I mean does it are
[1:05:16] we really it sounds like we're not going
[1:05:18] to hire anyone outside of government so
[1:05:20] sounds like just about everyone's going
[1:05:22] to have gone through this train and be
[1:05:24] able to lean on something
[1:05:26] uh in some sort of
[1:05:28] fashion I'm of the opinion that this is
[1:05:31] something that if they meet all the rest
[1:05:32] of the criteria we can get them trained
[1:05:35] train them set their priorities
[1:05:37] appropriately and and make that happen
[1:05:40] I'm hopeful this area will not keep me
[1:05:42] from selecting somebody we can why don't
[1:05:43] we just put it in intergovernmental
[1:05:46] relation cool let's do
[1:05:49] that okay so we will incorporate in
[1:05:52] intergo intergovernmental relations all
[1:05:55] right um you ready to go back to the
[1:05:57] policy directives y okay any any other
[1:06:01] comments on the Wastewater
[1:06:02] infrastructure
[1:06:05] expansion going going going gone okay uh
[1:06:09] how about the drinking water
[1:06:13] reinvestment looks
[1:06:15] good hearing none I'll move on to the
[1:06:18] next section Community Campus Park
[1:06:20] project can you get the right total
[1:06:22] amount from Jeff it's not 1
[1:06:26] significantly more than that
[1:06:29] okay all right we'll get the right
[1:06:31] number in
[1:06:35] there anything else like that that we
[1:06:39] didn't hit the mark
[1:06:42] on all right I'm Gonna Keep Going uh
[1:06:46] police chief recruitment any comments on
[1:06:48] that the recently began operating I
[1:06:51] don't think it's correct unless I'm
[1:06:53] misunderstanding something
[1:07:05] thought we were close but not
[1:07:07] there
[1:07:09] 247 we've been doing that for a
[1:07:15] long we operate at 24 by okay all
[1:07:20] right well over 20 years okay we'll
[1:07:24] strike we'll strike the recently and
[1:07:26] just say that uh that you run a 247
[1:07:29] service so okay okay now I have a
[1:07:32] question I mean I'm open to uh thoughts
[1:07:35] about it because I know it's kind of
[1:07:36] come up but um it says um the the next
[1:07:39] city manager is expected to lead a
[1:07:41] transparent and fair selection process
[1:07:45] to select the next police chief and I
[1:07:47] was going to put in to lead a
[1:07:48] transparent and fair Recruitment and
[1:07:51] selection
[1:07:52] process how do y'all feel about that
[1:07:56] anybody have a concern about
[1:07:59] that okay we'll put we'll put
[1:08:02] recruitment in there as well thank
[1:08:06] you anything else on the police chief
[1:08:09] well don't give us too much of a thank
[1:08:11] you we haven't picked the firm yet you
[1:08:13] know that was a joke that was a
[1:08:17] joke all right um Workforce capacity and
[1:08:21] space needs assessment any comments on
[1:08:23] that
[1:08:28] not seeing any okay
[1:08:36] um through all that
[1:08:38] um you know the thing that kind of
[1:08:41] concerns me a little bit is you know we
[1:08:44] only have so much tax dollars right now
[1:08:47] and so you know yes we're growing but
[1:08:51] that balance of being able you know the
[1:08:54] reason we're still small is because we
[1:08:55] don't have you know a huge amount of
[1:08:58] money to kind of be hiring all these new
[1:09:00] people and so I understand we need it
[1:09:06] um but it's part of it is it's having to
[1:09:10] kind of balance do we contract out
[1:09:13] certain things or do we hire inh house
[1:09:15] and and so balancing that how to kind of
[1:09:18] you know I I hate to say that do more
[1:09:20] with less but but kind of how to balance
[1:09:23] you know getting things done with our
[1:09:25] growing population but within our
[1:09:27] limited tax base um isn't that kind of
[1:09:31] covered in that next the last sentence
[1:09:35] yeah we expected
[1:09:38] [Music]
[1:09:39] to
[1:09:41] strategies within
[1:09:43] available Avail
[1:09:48] resources enough yeah I think so yeah we
[1:09:51] we definitely heard that and we we were
[1:09:53] trying hard to thread that needle uh to
[1:09:56] make sure that that that concept's in
[1:09:59] there well the other part the other
[1:10:01] thought that came to my mind and I think
[1:10:03] you heard it you heard it from me I know
[1:10:05] about um the whole idea of you know work
[1:10:08] from home versus work in the office you
[1:10:12] heard it from me too
[1:10:14] yeah and so I don't know you know is
[1:10:17] that is that kind of in here or and I'm
[1:10:20] not saying that they need to you know be
[1:10:22] at the office every day or something but
[1:10:24] I see that last last thing yeah I'm
[1:10:26] hoping that was what was meant by that
[1:10:27] last thing was coming up with the
[1:10:29] policies the appropriate policies for
[1:10:32] that sounds pretty detailed I I would
[1:10:33] expect that whoever's in that position
[1:10:36] will look at that very closely and
[1:10:40] decide and we will administer
[1:10:43] his grade at the end of the
[1:10:46] year to me that last one is brought
[1:10:49] enough that you know whatever they have
[1:10:52] to come up with a strategy they got to
[1:10:54] keep us happy
[1:10:56] yeah I mean it's a matter of public
[1:10:59] service and they got to keep their
[1:11:00] employees happy and so yeah okay we
[1:11:04] gotta keep Angie happy
[1:11:07] yeah take
[1:11:10] much that's not what I
[1:11:14] heard all right well thank you and I and
[1:11:18] I I would concur that I I think that
[1:11:20] that's something that would be inherent
[1:11:22] uh with with what's said here
[1:11:26] um it's easy to get down into the weeds
[1:11:28] and some of the policy stuff and uh with
[1:11:30] regard to the work atome issue every
[1:11:32] city that we're working with is dealing
[1:11:34] with that right now um and you know how
[1:11:38] much of that is a change in the norm and
[1:11:39] how much of that is uh this is a a
[1:11:42] one-time deal and you're going to move
[1:11:44] on to other issues
[1:11:48] so okay um so that takes us all the way
[1:11:51] through the profile and with those
[1:11:54] comments so we will make make those
[1:11:56] changes uh and run them by Jeff and
[1:11:58] Angie and make sure that uh um they're
[1:12:01] okay with it so and we assume that
[1:12:05] you're you're all right if they sign off
[1:12:07] on it I'm sorry but I'm gonna back
[1:12:09] appreciation for sing one of the things
[1:12:11] that you asked me was do they need to
[1:12:13] live in San and I said no I don't think
[1:12:15] they do but I want I think it's
[1:12:19] important that they you
[1:12:21] know come to you know evening events or
[1:12:24] go to a after hours you know chamber
[1:12:28] meeting or or um you know do a weekend
[1:12:32] you know solve cleanup or whatever to be
[1:12:34] visible and stuff and so that
[1:12:36] willingness to kind of um show up to you
[1:12:40] know to the Comm so that the community
[1:12:42] is aware of them and and communicating
[1:12:46] with them so I don't know how
[1:12:48] you did that kind of get addressed in
[1:12:50] here it it did counselor uh we did talk
[1:12:53] about visibility in Community I think it
[1:12:56] was under Community engagement okay um
[1:12:59] all right so thank you okay what was
[1:13:03] that by the way I was the same sort of
[1:13:05] boat as kathen n cat person had to be in
[1:13:08] the
[1:13:10] city boundaries just
[1:13:12] curious I don't think it I don't think
[1:13:16] they have to I thought I think I said it
[1:13:19] was preferred not required I thought
[1:13:22] Community the 97055 I because I I
[1:13:25] thought Community visibility is is where
[1:13:28] they need to be seen
[1:13:30] absolutely which is been whether they
[1:13:32] lived here or not if they lived here be
[1:13:34] better but I I wouldn't exclude them if
[1:13:36] they didn't live here I mean when Jordan
[1:13:38] was not that's for sure when a candidate
[1:13:40] asked you how much of my time do I have
[1:13:42] to spend in the office what will you
[1:13:44] tell
[1:13:46] them uh first of all um if they're
[1:13:50] asking that
[1:13:52] question they're not that familiar with
[1:13:54] the job okay um so I mean you're look
[1:13:58] you're looking for somebody who has been
[1:14:00] in the sea Suite um so I work in the
[1:14:04] federal government and a lot of those
[1:14:06] seite people work at home a lot now so
[1:14:10] surprisingly yeah I mean we're we're
[1:14:13] very clear when when candidates ask us
[1:14:15] you know can we work remotely and I've
[1:14:18] had only one candidate in the last three
[1:14:20] years ever asked that question um that
[1:14:25] that uh the answer is no this is I sit
[1:14:28] here educated thank you these are city
[1:14:31] managers right talking about
[1:14:36] yes I think you know given dual careers
[1:14:39] that people face trying to find jobs and
[1:14:42] stuff the fact that you know I me that's
[1:14:45] understandable that they don't
[1:14:46] necessarily have
[1:14:47] to long as they can be visible and
[1:14:51] weekend a weekend day or evening or
[1:14:54] something like that
[1:14:58] I would just say one one last thing to
[1:15:00] go back to what Stan said originally um
[1:15:03] sorry the mayor said originally is any
[1:15:06] way that we could find a different way
[1:15:08] to consider alternative experience
[1:15:11] because I feel like we've got such a
[1:15:14] prescriptive profile here that you know
[1:15:18] when it comes to education and
[1:15:20] experience that somebody who may not be
[1:15:23] more formalized
[1:15:25] will not apply and then that worries me
[1:15:28] about Dei and whether we're being
[1:15:31] inclusive of of everyone and there's
[1:15:33] nothing in here about Dei there's no
[1:15:36] statements about Dei so it I want to
[1:15:39] make sure that we are considering
[1:15:40] alternative Pathways and I know that the
[1:15:42] very front it says equivalent
[1:15:44] combination of Education experience may
[1:15:46] be considered to me that's very benign
[1:15:50] it's not enough to let somebody know
[1:15:52] who's reading this that hey
[1:15:55] let's look at your breath of of
[1:15:57] experience and and and put it in there
[1:16:00] and any way we can articulate that to an
[1:16:02] applicant that we don't scare them away
[1:16:04] with all these details and I don't know
[1:16:06] how you get a good balance with that or
[1:16:08] at least because this is this is like
[1:16:10] long and a lot of stuff so I just want
[1:16:13] to make sure that we're getting a good
[1:16:15] selection of diverse applicants that
[1:16:17] come in and feel like it's a job that
[1:16:20] they get so whoever they be
[1:16:25] like that's almost
[1:16:26] impossible just from the like you said
[1:16:29] from the criteria that's why if you're
[1:16:31] if you're looking for seasoned
[1:16:32] experience you look at the demographics
[1:16:33] of Who currently fills those roles
[1:16:36] across the region I don't think it's a
[1:16:38] very diverse
[1:16:40] group not an org it's
[1:16:42] not one thing concerns me though is I
[1:16:46] was in the forest
[1:16:48] service to there are certain quotas I'll
[1:16:52] put it that way that were required
[1:16:56] I'm not anticipating that here are
[1:16:58] yougive
[1:17:00] me I assume when you do the brochure
[1:17:03] you're gonna say things like we consider
[1:17:04] all candidates yes that's oh
[1:17:09] that's we always but uh the city is an
[1:17:12] equal opportunity employer um yeah so
[1:17:16] we'll cover those Bas be blind when it
[1:17:19] comes
[1:17:20] to yeah but it's I think the hard part
[1:17:23] is
[1:17:25] from an equity diversity and inclusion
[1:17:28] perspective it does require proactively
[1:17:32] recruiting from a broad net and if you
[1:17:35] made the filter criteria so restrictive
[1:17:37] that how how does somebody who falls
[1:17:40] into that category get their first years
[1:17:43] of experience well we're saying not here
[1:17:47] yes that's what we're saying and I'm
[1:17:49] just and I'm just mentioning did we look
[1:17:51] at this did we are we aware of it are we
[1:17:54] we write this out because this is just a
[1:17:57] draft when we get there will we consider
[1:17:59] alternative experience Pathways that
[1:18:02] that aren't necessarily what we've
[1:18:05] outlined um to expand our selection pool
[1:18:11] and I'm not saying underqualified I'm
[1:18:13] saying experienced but in a different
[1:18:15] way um and and how does that person when
[1:18:20] they read this on the
[1:18:23] web and they say I think I might fit
[1:18:26] this and they actually apply because
[1:18:29] what we're talking about is they that
[1:18:31] group of individuals not even applying
[1:18:34] because they feel
[1:18:35] excluded because we've made it so extra
[1:18:38] is there anything that we can or should
[1:18:40] add that would make it more attractive
[1:18:42] to somebody who might feel like go on
[1:18:45] the fren
[1:18:47] sh
[1:18:48] um so first of all let me let me just
[1:18:51] say that uh in our advertising that we
[1:18:54] do for these
[1:18:55] positions uh we advertise nationally we
[1:18:58] also advertise with specific um
[1:19:01] demographic groups um there there is for
[1:19:06] example a a black public administrators
[1:19:08] group um nationally and we advertise
[1:19:11] with them um the same uh with Hispanic
[1:19:16] um so you know we try to cast The Net as
[1:19:20] broadly as possible uh in that regard um
[1:19:24] um the in terms of the the
[1:19:28] terminology um we're very careful about
[1:19:31] the terminology we use we have somebody
[1:19:33] who is on our team who is responsible
[1:19:36] for um applying a Dei lens to all of our
[1:19:40] products and um she's given us great
[1:19:43] advice you know so for example we no
[1:19:46] longer talk about a candidate being a
[1:19:50] fit because fit now is code for a you're
[1:19:58] looking for somebody who's going to be
[1:20:00] just like
[1:20:02] us and uh so we don't use that that
[1:20:06] terminology anymore so we're pretty
[1:20:08] careful about how we uh how we craft
[1:20:12] these to make sure that it's they're not
[1:20:15] exclusionary at least you know to the
[1:20:19] best of our
[1:20:23] abilities yeah
[1:20:25] I mean this says um uh you know you
[1:20:29] mentioned inclusion you know the the
[1:20:31] city manager should demonstrate
[1:20:32] emotional competency transparency
[1:20:34] humility inclusion ethics and
[1:20:37] accessibility when communting all
[1:20:39] individuals or groups and that and that
[1:20:41] said I would also add that
[1:20:44] I you know the the place to get
[1:20:48] um I I couldn't see us hiring somebody
[1:20:51] who doesn't have any cine management
[1:20:54] experience regardless of how great they
[1:20:57] are
[1:20:58] because I think that you know this job
[1:21:01] requires some experience we've got such
[1:21:04] big issues that we're dealing with that
[1:21:06] if you don't have that kind of a
[1:21:08] background you're going to really
[1:21:10] struggle and it's going to be difficult
[1:21:13] to kind of it's it's a very steep
[1:21:15] learning curve if you don't and I don't
[1:21:17] think we can really afford that
[1:21:19] especially you know we've got so much
[1:21:21] going on um I think the place for those
[1:21:23] folks is to kind of get you know
[1:21:26] assistant you know assistant city
[1:21:27] managers and things like that that's
[1:21:29] where you know they can they can learn
[1:21:31] but not not at the top right see
[1:21:34] Kathleen I would I would argue with you
[1:21:36] and say look I and I'm not applying so
[1:21:39] I'm just gonna say this out loud I've
[1:21:40] got 25 years private sector 20 years
[1:21:43] executive level leadership five years
[1:21:45] state government individual leadership
[1:21:47] everything we've just described I have
[1:21:48] all this experience right here I have it
[1:21:50] all I've never been a
[1:21:52] city I've done everything testify in
[1:21:55] front of the senate sit on the w means
[1:21:57] committee and
[1:21:59] testify you don't need City man yeah do
[1:22:02] we want to C
[1:22:04] but but that's I hear what you're saying
[1:22:08] though because you want City management
[1:22:10] experience but I'm saying there are
[1:22:12] other there are other roles that people
[1:22:15] can do to get the same exact experience
[1:22:17] that isn't City man I know over their
[1:22:19] over their career and I don't want to
[1:22:21] exclude people who don't have City
[1:22:23] management experience
[1:22:25] I and I totally get where you're coming
[1:22:26] from and just to kind of have some real
[1:22:28] word experience there you know the
[1:22:30] forest service is you know the the new
[1:22:34] Forest supervisor I don't think ever
[1:22:36] worked for the forest service
[1:22:38] before and you know the same I I believe
[1:22:40] that's the case with the new District
[1:22:41] Ranger at zigzag never worked for the
[1:22:43] for service doesn't know fish you know
[1:22:45] fish from fou you know kind of thing and
[1:22:49] I'm I'm sure they do know fish from fou
[1:22:50] but and I don't mean to to mean that but
[1:22:52] they have that leadership experience in
[1:22:54] all they have to prove themselves in
[1:22:56] that interview process they show that
[1:22:58] they have the experience do those things
[1:23:00] I think that's okay for for certain
[1:23:03] things I do know that you know when
[1:23:05] you're talking about Wilderness policies
[1:23:07] and all those other things you there's
[1:23:09] just some things where it really helps
[1:23:11] when those people have some familiarity
[1:23:13] with what Wilderness is or what the
[1:23:15] forest surface is or things like that
[1:23:17] and so I get that there's you know I I
[1:23:20] think it's important to not limit us but
[1:23:24] I also think sometimes it's helpful if
[1:23:28] they know so so I think we're in a
[1:23:30] pretty good spot because you know Chris
[1:23:33] to your point I don't think we've
[1:23:34] communicated anything to Eric here today
[1:23:38] or or described anything that wouldn't
[1:23:40] take somebody with that skill set that
[1:23:42] you're
[1:23:43] describing and have them potentially
[1:23:46] consider pushing them forward as a you
[1:23:49] know as a potential candidate but to
[1:23:51] Kathleen's point I mean on the city
[1:23:54] experience and the local government
[1:23:55] experience I mean that is clearly
[1:23:57] preferred I think by Council um but you
[1:24:00] know I I don't think anything in here I
[1:24:02] mean if you look at the minimum
[1:24:04] requirement for education I mean it's a
[1:24:06] bachelor's degree you know I mean
[1:24:08] everything else is just uh is just
[1:24:11] preferred and desired skills and
[1:24:13] attributes and so I I you know if you're
[1:24:16] somebody with that kind of experience
[1:24:18] that you're describing Chris I think you
[1:24:19] you you know that you're qualified to be
[1:24:21] a city manager and and you're definitely
[1:24:24] well within your grasp to apply and I'm
[1:24:26] not talking about you I mean someone
[1:24:27] with that experience uh stepping forward
[1:24:29] to apply for it uh but I think you also
[1:24:32] know that you have a bit of a hurdle you
[1:24:34] know you know that you're not a city
[1:24:36] manager and and haven't worked in a you
[1:24:39] know City municipality and so I don't
[1:24:41] think there's anything here that a
[1:24:43] prevents someone of that skill set to
[1:24:45] apply uh but b i I think that individual
[1:24:48] does have a bit of a hurdle and probably
[1:24:50] should knowingly know that you know
[1:24:52] going into the application
[1:24:55] process yeah I agree with you 100% I was
[1:24:57] just contending what I heard councelor
[1:25:00] Walker say which was the city manager
[1:25:03] experience and I'm just saying it's
[1:25:06] similar similar yes I think what we've
[1:25:10] got written up collects a broad set of
[1:25:12] candidates and then when we get to sit
[1:25:14] and deliberate for those top three or
[1:25:16] five or whoever then we can kind of
[1:25:18] weigh that those nuances there I think
[1:25:21] one of the things I've always thought
[1:25:23] that make City manager's application to
[1:25:26] Sandy is that we are connected to a
[1:25:29] whole range of possibilities for
[1:25:32] different ethnic groups you know the
[1:25:34] Portland area we've got the different
[1:25:37] groups that are living here in the city
[1:25:39] as well as you know possibility of
[1:25:41] connecting with them in different parts
[1:25:43] of the metro area I I think if you're
[1:25:46] looking for somebody who might want to
[1:25:48] move to a place that has some diversity
[1:25:50] and the possibilities of finding that
[1:25:52] diversity probably you're in the
[1:25:55] Portland metro
[1:25:57] area Council um if you if you're okay
[1:26:01] with the the profil as it is I I would
[1:26:04] suggest we move on because I do had a
[1:26:06] few of the things I'd like to cover if
[1:26:07] that's all right with you folks
[1:26:11] or yes please
[1:26:14] okay um so with regard to uh the hiring
[1:26:19] procedures this will go a lot quicker um
[1:26:22] the hiring procedures are what we wrote
[1:26:24] up in our proposal so you're not seeing
[1:26:26] anything different than you saw in our
[1:26:28] proposal um we're going to follow that
[1:26:30] same process that that we uh that we had
[1:26:33] outlined um I will um suggest to you
[1:26:38] that there are some uh key points that
[1:26:41] uh I want to make you aware of in in the
[1:26:43] process so we will be uh assuming that
[1:26:47] you do adopt uh the profile and the
[1:26:50] hiring procedures on the 20th uh we
[1:26:53] areed SCH to launch this from on July
[1:26:57] 10th and it'll run to August 6 which we
[1:27:00] typically go for uh 4 weeks that's that
[1:27:04] standard um once we that happens we will
[1:27:08] gather the applications we will apply
[1:27:09] them against the criteria that you have
[1:27:11] outlined for us um and then we will
[1:27:15] interview uh by Zoom uh the the top
[1:27:19] usually it's the top 10 if uh and we
[1:27:23] might go a little above or a little
[1:27:25] below depending upon what we've got in
[1:27:26] the pool um and based on that we will
[1:27:31] come back to you in executive session I
[1:27:33] hope you have this on your schedule on
[1:27:35] August
[1:27:36] 21st um because when we come back we
[1:27:40] will bring you everybody that we've
[1:27:42] interviewed and we will bring you
[1:27:45] notebooks that will have all their App
[1:27:48] application materials in them and we'll
[1:27:50] present those candidates to you and we
[1:27:53] will be looking for you to give us
[1:27:55] guidance as to who you would like to
[1:27:57] move forward up to four candidates move
[1:27:59] forward as finalists um we don't do
[1:28:03] these meetings by Zoom uh because we're
[1:28:06] protective of the candidates uh that
[1:28:08] have not publicly declared that they are
[1:28:12] candidates um so uh that's the reason
[1:28:15] that we do this in hard copy in
[1:28:17] executive
[1:28:19] session um once we get that uh
[1:28:22] designation from you uh we will offer
[1:28:25] you some recommendations But ultimately
[1:28:27] of course it's your decision who you
[1:28:28] want to move forward as finalist uh once
[1:28:31] that happens uh then we will uh start
[1:28:34] doing background checks and reference
[1:28:36] checks uh on the candidates and uh then
[1:28:39] we move into what we refer to as the
[1:28:41] finalist week and these are the other
[1:28:43] dates that we're hoping that you'll have
[1:28:45] on your calendar um so uh the finalist
[1:28:50] week is going to be uh the week of
[1:28:53] September 11
[1:28:55] and starting with Tuesday September 12th
[1:28:58] we have two commun two receptions one
[1:29:01] for the staff and one for the community
[1:29:03] we highly encourage Council to attend
[1:29:07] the community reception as observers to
[1:29:10] see how the candidates interact with
[1:29:13] your
[1:29:14] community um and following that on the
[1:29:18] Wednesday we do panel interviews with
[1:29:20] the department heads with other public
[1:29:22] administrators in the area
[1:29:25] uh as as well as uh with the community
[1:29:29] as with Community
[1:29:31] leaders following that on September 14th
[1:29:34] this is the other date that you'll want
[1:29:35] to have on your calendar on September
[1:29:38] 14th will be your interviews with the
[1:29:40] candidates and we schedule longer
[1:29:42] interviews than we do with the panel
[1:29:43] interviews so you have a chance to uh to
[1:29:47] really talk with the candidates and then
[1:29:49] finally uh on Friday September 15th we
[1:29:52] have the deliberation and so we hope
[1:29:55] that you have that on your calendar as
[1:29:57] well Friday date night
[1:30:00] really date morning yeah it's the
[1:30:02] morning to the morning to the morning
[1:30:05] meeting yeah
[1:30:09] that it's on
[1:30:11] your it
[1:30:14] saying this to
[1:30:16] us I'm sorry counsel is it this says 3
[1:30:20] P.M Friday 15 is it is it where does it
[1:30:24] say that c well I just have a on my
[1:30:27] calendar M
[1:30:28] says for
[1:30:32] okay it should be in the morning okay
[1:30:35] yeah what we'll do during
[1:30:39] that Thursday is a big chunk of the day
[1:30:41] because we have to do all the yeah all
[1:30:43] the Thursday is a killer yeah we do an
[1:30:46] hour and a half interviews so you know
[1:30:48] that's six hours if you have four
[1:30:49] candidates six hours of interviews so um
[1:30:54] going back to the deliberations uh that
[1:30:57] Friday morning um we will download uh
[1:31:03] your perceptions from your interviews we
[1:31:05] will then share with you all the
[1:31:07] feedback that came back from uh the
[1:31:10] references from the background checks
[1:31:12] from the panels from the community or
[1:31:15] from both
[1:31:16] receptions um and after that um we
[1:31:20] facilitated your deliberative process
[1:31:23] and um at that point uh if you have
[1:31:27] chosen the candidate to move forward uh
[1:31:30] what we do is I'll step out of the room
[1:31:32] I'll call that candidate make sure
[1:31:34] they're going to say
[1:31:36] yes and uh come back into executive
[1:31:39] session let you know and I've only had
[1:31:42] one person say no ever but um
[1:31:48] [Music]
[1:31:50] and number two so yeah I mean in the the
[1:31:54] case of the person said no they they
[1:31:55] then moved on to number two on their
[1:31:57] list um but uh we'll come back in to you
[1:32:02] and you come out of executive session
[1:32:05] and you have the opportunity then to
[1:32:07] announce who the selected candidate is
[1:32:10] and all that's happening on Friday yes
[1:32:12] okay does that mean we'll have a regular
[1:32:14] Council session on Friday yeah at a
[1:32:17] undetermined time after the executive
[1:32:19] session concludes so it's a little how
[1:32:20] do you how do you announce
[1:32:22] that the timing thought you had time is
[1:32:25] it a Time certain well we yeah what we
[1:32:27] do is say it will be no no sooner than
[1:32:31] no sooner than sure yeah but but
[1:32:34] following the executive very short
[1:32:36] meeting yeah so are we having a Monday
[1:32:39] meeting too on the
[1:32:41] 18th no we're gonna live here it's on my
[1:32:44] cter I'm just curious I move that we
[1:32:48] don't trying to go camping after that so
[1:32:51] I'm trying to figure out we we'll we'll
[1:32:54] talk with the mayor about the agenda all
[1:32:56] right question and um there's some
[1:33:00] biasness in my question here so I'll try
[1:33:02] not to put it out there describe very
[1:33:03] quickly the
[1:33:05] community reception meeting is it what's
[1:33:08] the invitation look
[1:33:10] like so we rely on on you folks we will
[1:33:14] give you an invite to advertise it to
[1:33:16] the community and we rely on you folks
[1:33:18] to get the word out through your
[1:33:20] networks um and and then it's it's
[1:33:25] whoever comes now what we do is we treat
[1:33:28] it like speed dating so we have we
[1:33:32] divide the the groups up we divide the
[1:33:35] audience up into however many candidates
[1:33:38] there are so if there're four we have
[1:33:39] four different tables and then we rotate
[1:33:42] the candidates between them in 15 or 20
[1:33:45] minute intervals so everybody has a
[1:33:47] chance to meet and talk with them um and
[1:33:50] then when they leave they have an
[1:33:52] opportunity to fill out survey either on
[1:33:54] paper we we have a QR code too that we
[1:33:56] use so they can just do a QR code and
[1:33:59] fill it
[1:34:01] out left or right
[1:34:05] thing all right any any other
[1:34:10] questions so um is I know we've got the
[1:34:14] um session coming up here right to adopt
[1:34:17] this stuff right and then in between
[1:34:19] that and that week of the 11th is there
[1:34:21] any other did I
[1:34:24] there's any other required attendance
[1:34:27] from
[1:34:28] us uh we will have an executive session
[1:34:30] on August 21st to determine the
[1:34:32] finalists
[1:34:35] okay and we we will keep you informed
[1:34:38] through Jeff and Angie um as to how
[1:34:41] things are going so and I just want make
[1:34:44] sure you're I you know I just hear about
[1:34:47] these you know people that got hired and
[1:34:49] afterwards they you know find out
[1:34:54] horrible things that any Google search
[1:34:56] would
[1:34:57] have it says I know I when we hired you
[1:35:00] it said that you guys do all that yes
[1:35:02] before before we do the zoom interviews
[1:35:05] we do a Google search on anything that's
[1:35:07] work
[1:35:08] rated um so that it so if they haven't
[1:35:11] brought it up in their application we
[1:35:13] have a chance to ask them about it okay
[1:35:16] so we want to make sure to give them a a
[1:35:19] fair opportunity to share their site
[1:35:23] so they look into
[1:35:24] [Music]
[1:35:27] our all right I I have one other item
[1:35:29] I'd like to address with you and that
[1:35:31] has to do with the salary
[1:35:33] range um and so first of all um what
[1:35:39] we're looking uh for in this salary
[1:35:41] range is to
[1:35:42] have to have one that that sort of gets
[1:35:48] at the core skills and experience that
[1:35:50] you're looking for that's hitting the
[1:35:51] mark in terms of those C that level of
[1:35:54] candidate can you start with what does
[1:35:57] Jordan
[1:35:59] make I can yeah just yeah no so and I
[1:36:04] think it's important to account for the
[1:36:06] cost of living adjustment that was
[1:36:07] included in the budget that you all just
[1:36:10] adopted so accounting for that uh we
[1:36:13] budgeted for the city
[1:36:15] manager to make
[1:36:18] $163,000 uh in the upcoming year
[1:36:20] starting July 1 for contacts includ
[1:36:23] little things like the car telephone
[1:36:26] that's just gross that's other stuff I
[1:36:27] believe that's just salary um it may
[1:36:30] include the budget Jordan didn't take uh
[1:36:34] benefits so there would be some
[1:36:36] additional it doesn't include health
[1:36:37] insurance it doesn't that's
[1:36:39] just but it doesn't include car phone
[1:36:43] some of the other things that we expect
[1:36:45] them to be gone
[1:36:47] on I believe it's
[1:36:50] just Jeff do you know how that Stacks up
[1:36:52] against Maybe
[1:36:54] five or seven like City sizes I think ER
[1:36:57] er's about to discuss that actually yeah
[1:36:58] he's gonna hand you a piece of paper so
[1:37:00] Jeff can you answer though how much the
[1:37:02] we'll call it the perks or the benefits
[1:37:04] or
[1:37:05] the 450 is the car allowance and 60 is
[1:37:09] the data alls thank
[1:37:11] you do you have kind of a cost of
[1:37:13] government of the whole
[1:37:15] position whole not out of my brain at
[1:37:18] the moment but I can provide that now
[1:37:20] their health insurance and all of that
[1:37:22] is no different you go full family it's
[1:37:24] about 2,000 cost of the city the
[1:37:26] employee will pick up 10% of that cost
[1:37:29] so the same as all the other city
[1:37:32] employees
[1:37:33] okay um so I I'm gonna hand this out and
[1:37:37] that we have 10 comparable cities that
[1:37:40] we looked at we averaged them out um I
[1:37:43] also threw in um some recent recruitment
[1:37:46] ranges from recruitments that we've done
[1:37:49] in the last year um so you can see what
[1:37:52] other cities were offering in terms of a
[1:37:54] range um and then we have a
[1:37:57] recommendation but I'd like to just kind
[1:37:59] of set a little context here um so we've
[1:38:04] been in a situation the last two three
[1:38:06] years where the Market's uh been
[1:38:08] saturated with opportunities and during
[1:38:11] the pandemic we really saw a smaller
[1:38:14] group of pool of candidates come forward
[1:38:17] um where we used to get 30 40
[1:38:20] applications um we were starting to get
[1:38:23] more along the lines of
[1:38:25] 10 um that that has started to change
[1:38:31] and the last one we did we I believe we
[1:38:33] had 25 applications uh on on the last
[1:38:37] city manager recruitment that we
[1:38:39] did it was a very deep
[1:38:42] bench um and I is that a small City on
[1:38:45] the other side of the mountain it might
[1:38:47] have been on the other side of the
[1:38:48] mountain
[1:38:50] yes um they had some very compe
[1:38:53] comptitive
[1:38:55] candidates yeah I don't
[1:39:00] know so um you know we're also facing a
[1:39:04] situation with the housing market where
[1:39:05] most cities are um are seeing a rise in
[1:39:09] in housing and so it makes it more
[1:39:12] difficult for candidates who might be
[1:39:14] coming from a smaller city where the
[1:39:16] where the housing is cheaper to be able
[1:39:19] to move to a city where it's more
[1:39:22] expensive
[1:39:23] um we've also seen inflation happening
[1:39:26] right now and that's impacting uh
[1:39:29] salaries as well as um we're finding
[1:39:32] that candidates are being more selective
[1:39:34] uh because they can
[1:39:36] be um and so you know it still is uh
[1:39:42] we'll see how things go but it's still a
[1:39:44] candidate's market at the moment we may
[1:39:46] be seeing a pivot here um but uh it it's
[1:39:52] such that we have seen candidates drop
[1:39:55] out of the finalist
[1:39:56] process along the way too so so as
[1:40:01] you're getting ready to put that out
[1:40:02] what does a range mean I mean I
[1:40:05] understand what a range means in the
[1:40:06] private sector what does a range mean
[1:40:08] for these kinds of
[1:40:10] posters what determines where they land
[1:40:12] within the range well that is uh first
[1:40:15] of all that's your discretion um but
[1:40:18] generally speaking the more experience
[1:40:21] and the more check boxes that they've
[1:40:23] checked off on your attributes list okay
[1:40:26] should bring them any other private
[1:40:29] sector yeah we advertise it for range
[1:40:32] and then we determin where they fit
[1:40:33] within that yes I thought we negotiate a
[1:40:37] little bit with Jordan there will be
[1:40:39] negotiation there was with Jordan I'm
[1:40:41] pretty sure that we ended up figuring
[1:40:42] out because he wanted something and we
[1:40:45] wanted something else yeah you know on
[1:40:48] once you've made a selection there's
[1:40:49] still a
[1:40:53] hey stretch legs I did want to clarify
[1:40:57] councelor exner I I was able to look it
[1:40:59] up the number of 163 actually does
[1:41:03] include the vehicle it doesn't include
[1:41:05] any other but it does include the
[1:41:06] vehicle does just say how long the city
[1:41:09] manager been in those roles that have
[1:41:10] that W so I'm assuming the City Works a
[1:41:13] lot the state they go they have steps
[1:41:16] that they move so it used to be so our
[1:41:18] city manager used to be on our salary
[1:41:20] schedule and it's not anymore it's a
[1:41:21] contract so we have a
[1:41:26] okay all right so what you have in front
[1:41:29] of you uh there were 10 cities that we
[1:41:31] we took a look at and these are current
[1:41:34] salaries uh ston Malala Silverton
[1:41:37] Cottage Grove Monmouth Gladstone
[1:41:39] Cornelius the DS Troutdale and
[1:41:42] Dallas um and the populations range uh
[1:41:46] between uh 8,000 and
[1:41:49] 18,000 uh population and these are in
[1:41:52] order of the size of the
[1:41:54] population uh so you can see the
[1:41:56] salaries there on the right hand side
[1:41:59] and um you know the the lowest salary
[1:42:03] being uh with Silverton at at 135 and
[1:42:07] change 135,000 and change um the Sal the
[1:42:12] highest salary being in Gladstone uh at
[1:42:16] 185,000 and change so that that's kind
[1:42:21] of the range these salaries average out
[1:42:24] to
[1:42:26] 154,000 uh actually I didn't realize we
[1:42:29] put the sense in there but
[1:42:32] uh 451 and 33 cents um so that's what
[1:42:38] the average looks like the recent
[1:42:42] recruitments that we've done sisters uh
[1:42:45] had $ 120 to
[1:42:47] $60,000 range with a population of 3,400
[1:42:51] ston was 122 to
[1:42:54] 152,000 with a population of 88,200 and
[1:42:58] some uh Fairview uh was 135 to 160
[1:43:04] population over just over 10,000 and
[1:43:07] Cornelius uh was 140 to
[1:43:11] 175,000 uh and their population is
[1:43:14] 14,000 and some so um looking looking at
[1:43:20] what other cities have been doing uh
[1:43:22] look looking at the average um and what
[1:43:26] you're looking for our recommendation is
[1:43:29] that you go out with 140 to
[1:43:32] 170,000 as your as your range why not
[1:43:38] 175 you can I mean log for not being the
[1:43:42] top dog out there what is
[1:43:45] it um well we wanted to make sure that
[1:43:48] we were uh being within your your
[1:43:51] budgetary means now
[1:43:54] um so I I guess I would have to defer to
[1:43:58] you on that obviously the higher you
[1:44:01] go the more qualified candidates
[1:44:04] theoretically will apply yeah right and
[1:44:08] and sorry does this the salary we're
[1:44:10] talking about include the the car thing
[1:44:12] or not that's a negotiation Point some
[1:44:16] some of this is subject to how you
[1:44:17] negotiate I think people are going to
[1:44:18] interpret this as Bas sub right I agree
[1:44:21] with that I agree with that
[1:44:23] so so one one concern I I have maybe is
[1:44:29] having just gone through the interum
[1:44:31] city manager
[1:44:34] negotiation uh with Tyler and so I I
[1:44:37] have a little bit of a feeling for what
[1:44:39] the assistants and and and folks that
[1:44:41] are direct reports are making I mean
[1:44:44] wouldn't we possibly be in a situation
[1:44:46] where we'd be hiring a city manager
[1:44:48] that's making less than their direct
[1:44:50] reports under this salary range
[1:44:54] we should not be so our direct reports
[1:44:57] will be under this amount at the
[1:45:00] low yes so we're we're okay there
[1:45:04] mayor okay okay well somebody was
[1:45:07] mentioning 175 and you know the car
[1:45:10] allowances ends up to be almost $5,000 a
[1:45:13] year so going with 170 and then having
[1:45:16] another five my point is when you
[1:45:18] advertise this if if you have a 17 it
[1:45:23] looks more attractive than a 170 that
[1:45:26] doesn't mean that we won't offer 140 for
[1:45:29] the car allowance depending on their
[1:45:30] qualifications
[1:45:32] but it's I I I think we should be
[1:45:35] competitive with a Cornelius that's or
[1:45:38] whoever else goes out you know at the
[1:45:41] same time as or the Troutdale city
[1:45:43] manager well that's exactly right I
[1:45:45] don't want any I don't want anyone not
[1:45:47] applying because of the high-end part of
[1:45:49] that salary is kind of where I'm at I I
[1:45:52] I want someone who thinks that they
[1:45:54] deserve more than that to consider
[1:45:56] applying for this position and we are
[1:45:59] growing we're definitely would be
[1:46:02] wanting to give this person this
[1:46:05] person's really good raises as to go
[1:46:08] along did Jordan I would expect us to
[1:46:11] think the same kind of respects so I
[1:46:13] guess I'm in favor of
[1:46:14] 175 Angie how does the do these work
[1:46:18] like normal
[1:46:21] civil normal City jobs where there's
[1:46:23] like you bump up at you know a certain
[1:46:25] percentage or anything like that no so
[1:46:27] all your directors are they're all on
[1:46:29] the salary schedule and they'll max out
[1:46:30] at you know range seven um but this is a
[1:46:33] contract position so you guys can set
[1:46:35] the salary with what you want um my
[1:46:38] understanding right now with budget wise
[1:46:39] like pretty much anything over 165 170
[1:46:42] there's going to have to be a budget
[1:46:44] adjustment so I guess my question is you
[1:46:47] bring you bring you bring somebody in at
[1:46:50] 160 right is there is is there a a
[1:46:54] process to get them to 175 or is that
[1:46:56] something that we continue to negotiate
[1:46:58] so how we had Jordans is that as we do a
[1:47:00] cost of living that city manager also
[1:47:02] gets cost of living increase so they'll
[1:47:04] get that bump and then you do have
[1:47:06] negotiability in regards to how you say
[1:47:08] somebody may say I don't want the car
[1:47:10] allowance I would prefer to have this or
[1:47:13] you you have some ability to do some
[1:47:15] negotiation there um but I don't know if
[1:47:18] I'm answering your question no just I'm
[1:47:21] wondering how we how we get from 16 to
[1:47:23] the top end is that is that a set like
[1:47:25] three and a half% a year on top of your
[1:47:27] Cola or is that is that is that
[1:47:30] something that we negotiate every year
[1:47:31] when we do their their evaluation what
[1:47:33] does that look like there you go that's
[1:47:35] it it's the evaluation typically a city
[1:47:37] manager applicant will that'll be an
[1:47:40] important part of the they'll say I want
[1:47:41] an annual review and that'll be an
[1:47:43] opportunity to discuss but this range
[1:47:46] doesn't limit what those RWS go this is
[1:47:49] just this is the initial
[1:47:50] initial it's not like a government pay
[1:47:53] where that is the max you'll ever get to
[1:47:54] while you're a grade 14 or whatever it's
[1:47:56] a contract employee it's different I'm
[1:47:58] assuming we could start at 140 if you
[1:47:59] wanted to negotiate yes you could but
[1:48:02] that's the same go ahead I'm in favor
[1:48:04] 175 at least there's a part of me that's
[1:48:07] even wondering about 1 so I have a
[1:48:10] question on that um so and I don't know
[1:48:13] how I'd like to get some insights on how
[1:48:16] with with Jordan but you know if you say
[1:48:19] top is
[1:48:20] 175 and then you pick person you know
[1:48:24] can they say well you know I I want I
[1:48:26] want 180 or whatever so I mean
[1:48:29] does is 175 our top or or is that the
[1:48:33] top where they the person the selected
[1:48:35] person starts
[1:48:37] negotiating how did that work with
[1:48:38] Jordan I guess well it's different with
[1:48:40] Jordan because we had him on the salary
[1:48:41] schedule so when somebody's on the
[1:48:43] salary schedule you can't go off you
[1:48:45] can't go over the top of that salary
[1:48:47] schedule so if 120 is the top that is
[1:48:49] the top we can provide there's some
[1:48:51] additionals like you can add the car
[1:48:53] than or the data allowance in this
[1:48:55] scenario um you have negotiability so
[1:48:58] you really don't have a to what you put
[1:49:01] a range down you are trying to say to
[1:49:03] the candidate this is the top of the
[1:49:05] range we're not going to go above that
[1:49:06] and the reason for that is based off
[1:49:09] what you have as your attributes and
[1:49:11] what you are requiring of this candidate
[1:49:13] you are saying this position is worth
[1:49:15] this salary so you want a range for
[1:49:19] negotiability but you also don't want to
[1:49:22] not have have a top to also say this is
[1:49:25] what this physician can pay for um
[1:49:29] that's where it gets a little bit like
[1:49:31] you look at a trout or you look at um
[1:49:34] let's say you're out in mou and you
[1:49:36] can't find a candidate to go out there
[1:49:37] they may pay more than say we are
[1:49:39] because it's really difficult to get a
[1:49:41] candidate to move out to M and stay so
[1:49:44] sometimes you're also paying based off
[1:49:46] location or difficulty in recruitment um
[1:49:50] I actually think we will probably
[1:49:52] believe a lot of candidates for this
[1:49:54] position even if we go to 175 counselor
[1:49:57] um you're going that's a good that's a
[1:50:00] good healthy range but where do you so
[1:50:02] with the negotiations then you know do
[1:50:04] we start in the middle and and and then
[1:50:07] we say well we since you only have you
[1:50:09] know 10 years and not 20 years that's
[1:50:11] why we're not going up to 175 or how
[1:50:13] does all that so so welcome to
[1:50:15] Recruitment and
[1:50:16] to and to uh working on negotiations so
[1:50:20] basically you take a look at the
[1:50:22] candidates the top four and then you
[1:50:23] interview and as Eric said earlier in
[1:50:26] essence you're going to say this
[1:50:28] candidate is coming to us highly
[1:50:30] qualified then you know you're probably
[1:50:32] going to need to put out an offer that's
[1:50:34] quantifying to that experience if you
[1:50:37] have somebody coming in that maybe
[1:50:38] doesn't have the same thing and we know
[1:50:40] that they're going to be on a learning
[1:50:41] curve here here and here then we're
[1:50:43] going to say all right you're probably
[1:50:44] going to start lower on that range and
[1:50:47] then we're going to work it up you also
[1:50:49] have the flexibility to say in a year
[1:50:51] we're going to re evaluate and at that
[1:50:53] point we're going to give you a $5,000
[1:50:55] bom so you guys have some flexibility on
[1:50:57] what we work on it's going to be based
[1:51:00] off the candidate that sits in front of
[1:51:01] you and what they're bringing to the
[1:51:03] table I don't know if that okay so I'm
[1:51:07] also looking at your list of prices here
[1:51:10] on different city managers in and around
[1:51:13] us I
[1:51:15] see there's a lot of them that would be
[1:51:17] getting a raise assuming that they were
[1:51:20] highly skilled and I have to know a
[1:51:21] couple or three of the these um I I like
[1:51:25] being able to say to some of these local
[1:51:27] folks you know might get a raise if you
[1:51:31] so to me I think up the the annual
[1:51:36] amount I think is
[1:51:38] important I stretch her even further
[1:51:40] because I looked at the same thing Carl
[1:51:42] I said look at State and
[1:51:44] Malala and sub these are cities all
[1:51:47] under 10 say 10,000 or less we're bigger
[1:51:49] than them they're 135 to 149
[1:51:53] why shouldn't our minimum be 150 and
[1:51:55] then why can't our top be
[1:51:57] 180 because that's a range and if you're
[1:52:00] starting at 150 you're beating all your
[1:52:01] small cities that are underpopulated for
[1:52:03] us so you're going to get one of those
[1:52:05] city managers or somebody with
[1:52:06] experience coming to us that's going to
[1:52:07] have upward mobility and then if you
[1:52:09] have somebody in in a larger City like a
[1:52:12] like it says here like a a trale for
[1:52:14] instance who's 177,000 I'm not
[1:52:16] advocating for those managers at all in
[1:52:17] the same positions that that's not going
[1:52:20] to be a far stretch for them to come to
[1:52:21] Sandy and make the same amount of money
[1:52:23] which is a smaller town so I I like the
[1:52:25] 150 to 180 range myself so let's
[1:52:28] consider a hypothetical example of an
[1:52:30] assistant um city manager who's making I
[1:52:33] don't know what's our last contract with
[1:52:35] our Deputy with our acting our acting
[1:52:38] that R for me manager let me do some
[1:52:41] quick MTH yeah because that he would be
[1:52:44] representative of a candidate coming in
[1:52:47] who hadn't been in the top seat but
[1:52:50] maybe was reasonably qualified right
[1:52:53] so how big of a bump do you want you
[1:52:56] don't want to make it too big you know
[1:52:58] you want nice like on the old schedule
[1:53:00] there' be a step one coming in right so
[1:53:02] what's that where where they ATS but the
[1:53:05] numbers don't say this is what we have
[1:53:07] to it's just what we are thinking about
[1:53:10] and I guess to Angie's point it could be
[1:53:12] 140 if we said 150 to 180 for example or
[1:53:17] 185 if we get to that kind of C it's
[1:53:20] quite the welcoming package though
[1:53:23] last in the bottom tier of the range you
[1:53:25] posted sure I agree with you face it
[1:53:28] you're going to start mid level
[1:53:30] absolutely I mean that's where you're
[1:53:32] that's where most that's where most of
[1:53:33] this is gonna start and I will point out
[1:53:35] Jordan's you know if if that included
[1:53:37] the car stuff his you know actual salary
[1:53:39] was like
[1:53:40] 158 his actual salary if you well I mean
[1:53:44] so I did the math here it at 163 if you
[1:53:47] just add the data would be 163
[1:53:50] 720 but the car allowance is like they
[1:53:53] said that was included in that number
[1:53:55] right and that's with the that's with
[1:53:57] the increase with the cola right right
[1:53:59] okay and so his actual salary was like
[1:54:02] 158 which is what this is that's why I
[1:54:05] said our range our range doesn't include
[1:54:09] right what we're talking about 175 that
[1:54:11] doesn't include a cart thing right it's
[1:54:13] just a starting St and so that's what
[1:54:15] I'm saying that's you know I I mean I
[1:54:18] guess if you want to go up to 175 I can
[1:54:20] go along with that but I'm not we don't
[1:54:22] have to have the car just because Jordan
[1:54:25] had it doesn't mean
[1:54:29] this coun I mean so I mean that's just a
[1:54:32] way
[1:54:33] to that was if I may you wrong that
[1:54:36] seemed like just looking at it from a
[1:54:38] different level it just seemed like kind
[1:54:39] of like a way to circumvent the pay
[1:54:41] scale you to there's different ways to
[1:54:45] incentivize the P there we go thank you
[1:54:48] so I mean but we're lump with doing this
[1:54:51] we would just be kind of lumpy not in
[1:54:52] there and we don't need that incate in
[1:54:55] theory
[1:54:57] anymore where I I guess I'd like to be
[1:55:00] able to offer like after a year you know
[1:55:03] because you never just know what you're
[1:55:05] going to get and so I'd rather kind of
[1:55:06] start one place and then say we're
[1:55:08] looking at a you know a 10% you know a
[1:55:10] cola plus what you know based on a
[1:55:13] positive you know and you will I'm
[1:55:16] assuming Eric that when we provide
[1:55:18] profiles there's also going to be in
[1:55:20] their salary requirements that the
[1:55:22] candidat is also we're going to be made
[1:55:24] aware of so a lot of this is a little
[1:55:26] bit like the cart in front of their
[1:55:27] horse that as we get closer this will be
[1:55:30] an actual easier decision than it seems
[1:55:33] right now yeah so
[1:55:40] what council if I may um the the range
[1:55:46] that you put out right now is really you
[1:55:50] know how do you want to attract people
[1:55:52] just to put their application in once
[1:55:56] you've selected a candidate you have all
[1:55:59] sorts of bells and whistles available to
[1:56:02] you to put together a package whether
[1:56:05] it's a car allowance or whether it's a
[1:56:07] not of vacation time or whether it's uh
[1:56:10] something else but that that happens
[1:56:13] during the negotiation phase um and so I
[1:56:16] I would encourage you to just think
[1:56:18] about what is it that what's the range
[1:56:21] that's going to get them to put the
[1:56:23] application in and then you can worry
[1:56:24] about the bells and whistles when you
[1:56:26] get to the negotiations so this side of
[1:56:29] the room was at
[1:56:31] 175 I'm actually with Chris I'm cool
[1:56:34] with a one 150 to 180 that 150 to
[1:56:38] 180 I can live with that how about you
[1:56:42] mayor yeah I'm good with
[1:56:45] that
[1:56:47] kle does
[1:56:49] that put too big a jump
[1:56:52] you 18 if you want to keep it at if you
[1:56:56] want to keep it 140 to 180 let's keep it
[1:56:59] let's keep it at the low inch just in
[1:57:01] case we get somebody at the entry at
[1:57:03] that entry level that probably won't
[1:57:06] with if if we get that many candidates
[1:57:08] but 180 is are actually GNA be you know
[1:57:10] when you add all the other add-ons yeah
[1:57:12] it's 140 to 180 at this point it's all
[1:57:15] just bait just to get somebody jump at
[1:57:18] that hook right yeah yeah this this is
[1:57:21] not a Amendment this is just for
[1:57:23] advertising purp 140 to 180 I mean if
[1:57:27] that
[1:57:28] Ian you good with that absolutely so I I
[1:57:32] just want to I just want to confirm what
[1:57:34] I think I just heard so you want 140 to
[1:57:37] 180 yeah okay very good that that's a
[1:57:41] that is a good range um I will tell you
[1:57:44] that I'm already getting phone calls um
[1:57:48] in interest in this position so uh I I
[1:57:51] think uh we're heading in the right
[1:57:53] direction sweet well then let's move it
[1:57:55] down to
[1:57:58] 120
[1:58:04] Le we just
[1:58:08] away the negotiations will be later
[1:58:11] nobody this is the mayor anyway
[1:58:15] so
[1:58:17] I are we there anything else you had to
[1:58:19] cover I we have everything we need be
[1:58:22] able to move forward so okay mayor I
[1:58:24] think that's everything if you have any
[1:58:25] closing remarks no just thank you
[1:58:28] everybody uh really exciting um I think
[1:58:31] obviously we're all on the same page and
[1:58:33] thank you for your presentation uh
[1:58:35] really appreciated the work done so
[1:58:37] far thank you all right I'll go ahead
[1:58:40] and close the work session thank you
[1:58:41] everybody you're going have