for the budget workshop. Today is August the 5th, 2026. It's 5:00 p.m.
I'm going to call the role. Please answer.
Councilman Summer >> here.
» Councilman Summerland >> here.
» Councilman Pard >> here.
Prom Brad >> here.
» Councilman Robinson >> here.
» Everyone is here. So, we do have a quorum. We're going to stand up and say
the pledge of allegiance to the United States and to the flag of Texas.
I aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic
for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and
justice for all.
flag. I aliance to the Texas one state under God one and indivisible.
» If you want to remain standing, we're going to have a short invocation by
Councilman Robinson. Just >> bow your heads, please, and join me in.
Father, thank you so much for giving us the privilege of serving our city. I
pray, Father, that as we discuss the budget this evening, make
decisions and craft policies that we will always keep in mind that we're
doing this for the people and for their best interests.
Remind us, Father, that we are in this position not to be served, but to serve.
Father, bless our staff, our city, our residents, and protect us
all. We ask this in Jesus name. Amen. >> Amen.
» All right, we're going to move on to item number five, citizens forum.
Citizens are invited to speak for three minutes on matters related to city
government that relate to agenda or non-aggenda items. Speakers are asked to
approach the podium and give their name and address before sharing their
comments. I understand that no one has signed up.
Is that correct?
» So, we're going to move on to [snorts] item number six. At this time, I'm going
to turn it over to our financial director.
and council. Um I sent out um kind of a memo last week about the tax rate. So
this item is going to discuss the 2026 property tax rate um calculations. Um so
I do have it on the screen as well. So this year's um our current tax rate for
the 25 um tax year was 1821 per 100 valuation.
This year's tax worksheet. >> Yeah, pull that up, Lisa, please.
I'm used to it being so far away on my dis. Um the no new revenue rate for this
year is 1849. So there is increase from last year's tax rate. Um but it will
yield the same revenue to the city as last year. The voter approval rate is
1919 per 100. Um and our certified taxable value is about 1.7 uh billion
right now. So um also in this chart you'll see I kind of put where our
current rate is so you can see how the share breakout would be between the INS
which is our debt service requirement and our general fund share which is our
maintenance and operation the M share. Um I did it for the current rate the
infu revenue rate and the um voter approval rate.
So, um, in order to bring in the same or very close of the same revenue as last
year, you would have to go with the 1849 rate. Um,
and that is and then on the second page here,
» I broke it out. So, um, this year our median, so truth and taxation laws
require the tax assessor to assign a median house rate to kind of use as a
taxpayer impact u value. Um, so this year the medium median homestead taxable
value is about $437,000 per home. Obviously, that's not every
home. That's just medium. Um, there's houses will be less, there's clearly
houses that are more. Um, so if we went with the no new revenue rate of 1849,
um, it would be less than it's a 0.28 cent increase from
1821. Um, it's about 1.5% increase and it would increase that median um, home
valuation tax bill about $36 or 4.7%. Um, if you went with the V, it would be
a .0098 cent increase or 5.4%. Um, and it would be an additional on
average $66 or an 8.9% increase to the medium uh median homestead value uh tax
bill. Because of if you go to the 1919, it
would trigger an election. you the highest you could technically go is 1
1918 [clears throat] without having a tax election which I
would not recommend wanting to have because it can fail. And also um there's
a lot of timing that goes into consideration on that as well.
So and this just kind of shows you that
same information that I typed up up there.
Is there any questions about the tax rate or calculations with it? Mr. Mayor
and Lisa, I think we we should proceed at this point at the no new revenue
rate, but I'd also like to postpone number two to the end of the meeting.
» We are. Yeah. >> Yeah.
» All right. >> Just about to to the item.
[clears throat] >> So, the differential in revenue that
you're kind of looking at is um should have done that. Apologies.
I got too many mouses up here. >> From the current rate to the 1919, it's
only 167,000. >> Okay.
» 176. >> Thank you, Charlie. [laughter]
» So, yeah, because of last year, we had a lot of unused increment, which is
basically truth and taxation laws allow you if you persistently go below your
NNR or at the NNR and you forgo that increase that you could have done, you
can bank that differential. And last year it did help us because of the
police pay parody larger bump we had to make. So we did kind of exhaust a lot of
that unused increment because it every it's based on the last three years. So
like if you don't use all of it, it falls off and then it just keeps
bringing that bottom dollar um bottom amount up and up. So that's why the
difference between the N&R and the V is a lot smaller this year than it was last
year. So we're good for the INS
» for the interest and syncing fund >> for every for all of it. Yeah. For the
rate
and basically in the budget document, I just put the same revenue as last year
into our M um portion, the general fund. I did rework it with the 1849 number.
It's about $4,000 short than what we brought in last year because it does
it's all rounding and you know there's going to be some discrepancies. So um so
if you go with the eight the sorry there's a lot of numbers here 1849
you would bring in about 1.4 for sheets
» 1,400 into the general fund whereas it's about 4,000 less than what I had from
last year.
And the question might come up of why is the NNR higher than our tax rate this
year, right? Um because ideally you should have new improvement that kind of
you know offsets that. However, um the 8th 9th legislation had House Bill
number nine which basically exempted any personal business property that did not
exceed 125,000. It exempted it from the tax rules. So,
it did remove some value from us and then we didn't have enough new
improvement value cuz everything is based on as January 1. So, um like with
the wood loss, it's based on how regressed they are as January 1. So
obviously their tax bill is not going to be the same thing that like next year
their full value should show up. So it's just basically wherever something is as
so >> so you're saying that HP9 I just want
some more clarification on that. Is that like their the business had to be valued
above that before they were taxed or they're able to take that off?
» No. So if they So like I I use car dealerships because that's usually who
we see the most on some of these tax rules. We don't really have any, but for
you know, so each vehicle they keep on their lot, they have to pay a property
tax on because it's a business type property. So if any of those cars don't
exceed $125,000 in valuation, they can exempt it off of
the [snorts] role, if that makes sense. Yeah.
Or and another thing like um a lot of companies that lease um like uh Sunb
Belt would be a good one. They have to pay property tax on their equipment
because they lease and they it's a business property. So yeah.
» Yeah. So they would get to exempt whatever. Yeah.
» That's their inventory. >> Yeah.
» So I I couldn't get clarification if it was an aggregate or not. And like and
I'll be honest, uh when I talked to Miss McCrae, this has been the hardest year
for her with the tax worksheets because of all the changes that happened in the
80th 9th and then we know there's going to be a lot coming up in the 90th that
starts in January. Um, so she said this was a very because legislation will put
a law out, but it's a lot of gray. So, everyone's trying to figure out with the
direction from the comproller, how does this calculate out, you know, the
comproller is the one that issues out the notices of calculations and
everything. So, um, there it was a little tricky this year with the new
laws. So, >> I think it's going to get trickier going
forward. >> Oh, it will.
» I think it is. >> Yeah. I think that was one of my biggest
concerns when I got on council was the one thing that we just don't pay
attention to is what happens at the state level and how that affects us.
» And here's the very first >> tickling of this coming in.
» Last legislation, the mayor and myself and Kathy had worked on several letters
in um protest of the expenditure cap and revenue cap. Um those were the biggest
bills that were really going to be detrimental.
» Um and we worked we we sent those to Mr. Toe's office. Um, Craden off it. We sent
them everywhere I think at one point just to in protest
of it and I actually wrote did out calculations to show how it would hurt
our city particularly. >> Yeah.
» And all the indications so far are that they will tackle this again.
» Yeah. In the coming election they are they are going to
» and there's got to be an some type of an amendment [clears throat] for cities her
size you know. >> Yeah.
invite it to a TML summit legislation um session at the end of the month um me
and 140 other delegates from the state and they really loaded it with financial
professionals this time because the biggest priority is property tax and
expenditure caps so um TML um invited me out to work on some policy proposals um
so I think it out of our area it's me and Jersey villages finance director are
going um so we have representation for our area so we'll try to push especially
for um I think the Houston metro area is a very unique area. Um we you know we
say this all the time, we're a small city, but we're not like you're on the
one of the biggest freeways of the the country outside of the fourth largest
city in the country. You're you're basically in Houston's back door. So,
um, they don't take that in consideration when they look at
population growth because a lot of the expenditure caps were based on CPI and
population growth, which we're we're fairly built out. So, our population
growth isn't going to be so that puts us at a negative. They don't take in
consideration your daily population. They just consider your homestead
population. But with the Portoino, with all these other shopping centers, I
think Sam, what was it? 50,000 you anticipated visitors a day
» about. >> Let's do it.
» So our population grows from just shy of 5,000 to 50,000 pretty
quickly, >> right? Every day.
» Yeah. >> That's not counting 141,000
for anybody. So that's what a lot of the legislation won't take in consideration
is, you know, and then also that, you know, smaller cities that are out in
West Texas that don't have a sales tax base.
» Yeah. >> It it doesn't take consideration those
as well. >> I think that there were more cities like
that. >> Yeah.
» That are not like us that depend on retail.
» We saw that at that that breakout meeting that
» we did. So, there's a lot of moving parts, but
this year will be highly focused on um property tax reform and most likely
expenditure caps and revenue caps. And yeah, it's it's going to be interesting,
but we'll we'll tackle it as we can. Um so, that's pretty much in a nutshell the
um Oh, and I did do a little breakout just to kind of show you um so like our
this proposed tax rule. Um you can see that residential is about 30% of the
total taxable value. Commercial is about 70%.
Um and of the the total that would be paid to the city about just shy of a
million would be from um the residential side and then the remainder is from the
commercial. So
and this is based on a 95% complete certified rule. There's 5% underneath
the protest still.
So,
and even if we move on from this agenda item, we're going to have a another one
at the end of it discussed in this. So, if we want to brainstorm more that one,
we can as we go through the budget. But if no one has any questions, I can
move on if you would like. Right. Uh like I said earlier uh we're going to
move item number seven. We're going to discuss it at the end of uh after item
number 10. So we're going to move on to item number eight
uh budget discussion. >> So the first budget discussion um is
going to be the general fund. Um as I just showed you, there was a little bit
differential in the sales tax revenue based on the NNR. Um I I've been playing
with the sales tax numbers. Um, I will probably have an update for that soon.
Um, and then
so that's all I have for revenues. Um, typically in the past what we've done is
gone through each department again, but since we already did that in workshop, I
don't know if there was the only department we did not talk about was
CVB, but for the general fund, was there any other department that we wanted to
talk about again or was there any follow-up [snorts] questions?
They say pretty stagnant all those budgets other than the personnel costs
obviously. >> My own my only question did we have did
you utilize zerobased budgeting or did you use prior year's budget and just
build on top of that and assume everything's going to happen that
happened prior year. >> So
» without looking at cutting as much as you can.
So with the expenditure side, each department does their own budgeting and
then turns it into myself. Um we do base it off of a zero base. Um the majority
of our in these departments of our revenue I mean our expenditures sorry
revenues is going to be personnel costs. So those are automatically just a phase
in. Um but on the on the um operational other than the personnel costs typically
a lot of those are aligned with contracts um that are already set or
costs of increase. And then there are going to be your standard boilerplate um
you know accounts like office supplies and operating you know that are pretty
much stagnant and they just carry over year over year because they're as
needed. Um, I think that's might be answering your question
» kind of. >> Okay.
» Really, >> but other departments can chime in on
how they develop their budgets. I, you know, finance is pretty much a barebones
budget. Ours is based on what we have to pay for audit,
» the appraisal share, you know, it's pretty standard. Um, but other
departments have a lot more expenses than I do. So if anyone wants to if
there's any particular one you want to look at
» if I have a department I would think to me we'd lay out all the expenses I had
this year back and say do I have to have all of this do I have to spend all of
that again next year or can I trim this can I trim that and go line by line and
trim as much as I can especially if we've been coming under it
traditionally. >> Yes. So what I do typically in front so
in in the budget book in front of each department I have the summary change
sheets um so it'll show you if there's been decreases like admin had a decrease
to the newsletter because they're going with impact magazine so they found a
better price cost for that right >> where's this one at
» it's in the it's in the budget document it's on it's before each department
» um so um [clears throat] so there's those things um you you know,
they removed several dues and memberships cuz they don't want to
participate in them. They decreased their infant supplies. So, I do this
just so it's very transparent. So, exactly what changed. Um, so you can see
the the thought method for each department, what decreased, what
increased, stuff like that. >> So, each department had had to come
forth and say, "This is what I budgeted for travel and entertainment last year.
I'm cutting as much as I can to save the city in these areas. So, my new budget
for travel and entertainment next year will be this amount. Did every
department do that? Um, so every department kind of budgets a travel and
training a little bit differently. Some do it by position, some do it as a group
total. Like PD has so many employees. Sorry, I keep forgetting the microphone
because I keep trying to make contact eye contact. So like with police
department, they have so many employees and doesn't mean they're all going to
travel and train that year. So they do more of like a grouping cost for their
non-admin side, so for patrol. But then other departments um same thing with
rural department. All the public works guys aren't going to do training every
year. Or if they do, it's going to be smaller trainins, not like a big um
overnight training. So there's some of the departments that don't want to
commit. They put more of like a dollar amount that should not exceed than
[clears throat] to allocate it per person.
» I think that's what >> that's not zerobased budgeting.
» Yeah. >> No, I think it needs to be more
specific. If I'm going to send this this uh this person to a entry level training
program, uh uh next year I'm not going to have that person do the same thing
because he's already trained. So I can cut that part that particular training
program out next year. It would be better to go by department and by person
and make each of those lines a determination for each line trying to
save as much as you can cutting as much. An example is the um the money that we
spend for the city for um events of going through. I know Charlie is going
through and looking at each one say do I have to have this amount for this for
each of these events? Can I trim this one or trim that one instead of just
plugging in the same thing we've always done? And Charlie has come up with some
suggestions because I said we're gonna have to cut, you know, we need to really
save as much as we can. Where can that be? And he's already got some ideas on
where we can trim and and save um some money.
» You're talking about civic club. >> Civic club.
» Okay. And it would be nice if every department
took had that attitude and looked at it and said, "What can I do to save?"
Because we don't want to take taxes up if we can help it. And if we have to
take it up as little as we [clears throat] can possibly take.
So it it looks like I mean if I'm reading Mr. Please correct me. It looks
like our total um yearly new recurring cost is
somewhere around 800 grand >> for the whole budget or just for general
fund >> police by parody municipal court net
impact bulk trash equipment replacement contributions.
» Oh, for the special consideration items. >> Um I could double check. I haven't I
don't know that off the top of my head. >> And then even if we go up to 0.19 as
high as we can without having a tax selection,
» what what is that going to give us? an extra 165 grand
» if you go up to the VA just below the B. Yes. About that.
» So what does that do to us? I mean I mean we're going to fall short.
» Well, so these items that are in here are just for consideration. They're not
going to be all approved. We know this. This is just to bring to you. Also, some
of these items and special consideration items are non-recurring items. So we can
use available cash to pay for those instead of putting them against your tax
rate because they're onetime purchases. Typically, when you look at a tax rate
or a budget, your operating budget should be clearly for the things that
reoccur every year, you know, so personnel, um, contract costs, stuff
like that. Um, like landscaping, um, trying to think of some other contracts
like that, like on the water sewer side, they have tons of contracts they have to
do every year like sledge halls and, um, you know, chemical maintenance and stuff
like that. But for the for other things that are like in that special
consideration, some of those studies, some of those projects, those can be um
allocated out available cash because they're not recurring in nature. So
typically your operating budget should be only those things that recur every
year. >> Thank you for that explanation. So So
the biggest one is equipment replacement contributions. That's a onetime deal.
» Well, so we do that every year, but because it's a capital assetbased
program, we use cash to fund that. It just al it just restricts it for
replacement so that it puts a hold on it so that it can't be used for anything
else basically. >> Thank you so much.
» Yeah, no problem. >> Well, the biggest things are personnel
expenses >> and contractual
expenses. That's really where a lot of this is
placed. >> Yes.
» You know, >> so in the general fund especially, it's
a government servicesbased budget. So government services is typically um you
know police department, fire, it's a big it's a big personnel budget. You know
water sewer does it and CBB those are kind of opposite. They have more
contracts and stuff like that um operational costs than they do personnel
costs. So um but you know water sewer is technically a business type activity. Um
it's that's more of like as if you're running a business than it is a
government service. But because it is the city controls our water system, it
helps with economies of scale on a lot of our costs and administrative costs
because you don't have to hire other people because they share like they
share finance people, you know. So you don't you say that's why our water rates
can be subsidized lower because you do have that economies of scale with the
city controlling it. But it is to be ran kind of like a business and that's why
it stands on its own most of the time. U we made that we uh a couple council
cycles before made it very um [clears throat]
that this should be you know in the past it's been kind of supplemented with
general fund and that's not usually good practice. So a couple councils ago they
determined this should be a self-sufficient fund and that's how
we've been treating it since then. Was
there any particular other questions about the general fund expenditures
or if there's any department we want to hone in on?
» We you just want to talk about the whole general fund, not department.
» We we talked about it before, but if there's any changes that
» Well, I just don't want to breeze over the
whole thing. >> No, you're good. I could do a quick
rundown if you want me um to >> Oh, no. I'm not trying to make you do
anything, you know. >> I'm here, you know. So,
» we had we had to budget a week when the first
» Yeah. >> the first thing, you know what I mean?
And I'm going to pick on Ernest here. He didn't have time to really look at this.
You know what I mean? >> Nor did I. Nor did
» I don't think any of us. >> Yeah.
» No, really. So, I don't want to prolong the meeting. I mean, just for the sake
of prolonging the meeting, I do want to talk talk about some of these things.
» So, I'll just go over the summary change sheets for each department because
that's usually easier to kind of hone in on see what happened.
» Um, so for like the administration department, they had a a 3.99% increase
to their operating budget. Um, and the majority of that is going to be
obviously personnel cost, right? like we've been kind of um explaining um
there was other some other small changes. Um there is let me make while
we're already on here [clears throat] um so last year we had moved all the
medical expenses for each department back into the department's budgets from
the non-depart budget where it's lived prior to me starting here. So, um, so
there was, um, some increases to the rates for insurance. This year, I do put
in a small percent increase into the proposed budget as a hypothetical just
to have an earmark on it. Um, so this year I had anticipated medical would go
up 6%, it did co go in as a weighted 11%. So I added those to the summary
change sheet on the screen for each department. So it's additional 5%. And
then but our dental insurance that I anticipated a 5% increase.
» Excuse me. Could you make that bigger? >> Oh yeah, sorry.
» Please. >> I [clears throat]
came to see you couldn't read it on the screen anymore.
» So, um, but dental had a decrease. So, I had put in there a 5% increase and it
came in at three. So, there's a 2% differential that went back into the
budget.
So, the net change to the insurance is just for the general fund. Obviously,
there's water, sewer, and CBB, their own funds, but it nets out to be about a
$45,47
differential on the [clears throat] insurance rates from what was budgeted
to what was to the actual. Also,
there were some changes on some of the plan like um plan plan um sorry tiers.
So what the employee elects if it's an employee only employee and family
employee and spouse employee and child. So there were some changes within
[snorts] the departments with different levels of uh needed coverage.
» So I'm just looking at it and and I don't have the whole thing but let we're
talking about admin. Okay. So their salaries and wages went up 2.4% 4% to
the two and the $9,000. >> Mhm.
» The uh dental accidental dispersement went up 9.42%.
» Well, that one changed because there was a this is based on the proposed.
» I understand. But the effect of the whole budget that we're talking about
because we're up we are going to get to the bottom line on this, you know.
» Well, that went up then the group insurance is up 23%.
um to the tune of $72,491. Okay. And those are all
figures that were on the >> Yeah.
» Sheet. FICA's up 1.7. So when you take all of
these, that's where you get your print 4%
» personnel expenses >> right here. The seven. It's hard to
» sit here and just look at all this and not really know where all the little
pieces are in there, you know. >> And
» so total personnel cost for like admin went up just shy of 24,000 total for all
those >> department uh category 61.
» There you go. >> Mhm.
» And it's on this screen here. Yeah. >> And see going forward this is a
recurring every year. >> Yeah.
What would what did uh it go up last year?
» Um personnel went up 64,000 last year.
» What was the percentage? >> Uh
had like that recent column just a total of that.
» It's on an Excel so it's a word. So I got [laughter] Yeah. PDF.
» No, I was just looking at the >> 3%.
» Yeah. >> Yeah.
» So 3% for you. So last year 3% this year 3.9
» does that fall into does some of that fall into the step?
» Yes. So we factor in so um my software basically calculates the personnel
increase for each person based on their their anniversary date. So it's it's
pretty true to what their pay will be. Historically, we've had to do kind of
Excelbased, but our software allows us to pin it down to the actual step uh
raise month so it gets a true accurate personnel cost.
» So, realistically for all the different departments, we can look at we can plan
a 3% increase pretty much per year.
» I would say three to four based on what the insurance um rates come in at every
year. That's the one that's a variable that we just don't know until usually
the end of July. unfortunately
is the um probably part of what I'm I guess I'm looking at I know there are
some costs that are associated with it the insurance uh those types of things
are a lot of that's out of our hand. The
only thing we can do is shop around for a better
place unless we have restrictions on that. um is um what I'm really looking
to get at is you know what were the percentages of the uh revenue uh for
salaries um you know where did that fall and what
was that last year compared to what it is
» oh for the sal just the salaries general ledger I mean account um
» had to be a whole lot last year because we had the the the police parity But
that wouldn't >> not for admin
» me admin. >> But oh yeah, that's totally okay.
» So for last year we budgeted So the year
that we're in So you're talking about 25, right? So not the year we're in
right now. Yeah. [laughter] >> Sorry. So la for 25 we budgeted for
139,000 and it came in at 432,000. >> So it came in pretty close.
Is there a way to extrapolate what 24 then was over for 25? Or you can do the
25 to 26? >> No, we haven't agreed on that one yet.
» Are you talking budget versus actual or you talking about actual over actual
like >> actual over?
» Oh, okay. I'm sorry. >> Yeah, I'm didn't clarify.
» No, you're good. And the year-to- date numbers in this budget document are as
of like the end of June. So obviously we've had another month of expenditure
so we're a little far behind. Um >> but just doing an you do you have
available 25 to 26 of what the wages wage difference or increase was from 25
to 26. >> Uh yeah so they did have a personnel
move so and we had someone leave that was more tenure. So there's a little bit
that's the other thing you have to consider is people move in people
leaving stuff like that. So, actually the actual from 25
or the the budget from 25 to the budget on this year was only a $1,000
difference for salaries and wages because there was a lot of movement
between >> Yeah.
» Yeah. >> That's the hard part about salaries and
wages because it's not always going to be there's always some variables that
happen. >> Um
» Yeah. Okay. >> So, Joe, to your point,
admin went up 2.4%. finance went up three 3%. Okay. Um
there's 14. Okay. pretty even on uh
you'll see the salary salary and wages on police went up uh just 4% this time
[clears throat] was 22% last year because of the parody
but um You can you you can find all of that.
You know what I mean? It's but there's so much more in category 61
[clears throat] which is personal expenses. The whole thing that's what
Lisa is talking about there group insurance pretty close to what you said
three three to four%. >> Yes.
» So if you just look at salary wages and like taxes you're usually at three and
then everything else factors in. So you're about 3%
» and a lot of that's out of your control. >> Yeah. So like workman's comp is also
considered in there and that so TML how they do workman's comp it's based on
obviously the exposure rate for a police officer is going to be a lot higher than
for me right because I'm just at a desk. Um so every year they the poll has to do
their uh actuarian calculations and they figure out what's the appropriate
exposure rates for position >> and then we get those numbers and then I
calculate it against the payrolls. So >> yeah, I guess what I'm just trying to
and 100% understand >> all of the variations that
» Yeah. >> an employee is isn't just uh I got a
paycheck. >> Yes.
» It's all the other factors. >> It's all the other factors that go into
it and just you know we need to be aware of that those so many of that if we want
to provide those benefits to our employees which we do
» um those are control factors that are out of our hands. Uh and really what I
was trying to get to uh kind of goes back to
what is the actual set take-home for them because a lot of people benefits
are benefits. Sometimes they >> some people understand the importance of
it's great to have benefits. >> Some people just want the dollar amount.
» Somebody just want the dollar amount. Typically your younger employees look at
more dollar amount what you're going to bring home and then your mid to older
tenure employees look at >> retirement health insurance stuff like
that. >> It's completely different thing. And so
my only point and I don't want to labor it any longer was just to try to get to
what are our manageables >> and are we doing the best program for
doing that? And um and I I know that I've brought it [cough] up in as an
agenda item, you know, [snorts] talking about do we reconsider our process? Do
we take a look at our process? Do we need to make some changes? Do we need to
modify it? Um are we not paying enough? Um you know, are we not, you know, as we
just give someone a, you know, a a programmed raise and honestly their
value is greater than that? We don't want to lose that knowledge or there are
some that and I haven't seen any of these people that just okay I don't have
to perform for it you know I'm just going to get it it's just going to come
year after year after year and so you know this is just going into that
questioning do we need to and I know there's an agenda item that Sam's
brought on >> yes I was going to allude to that
» yeah you're in luck >> yeah [laughter]
so I know that we're but I wanted to just
» you know talk about it because these are considerations we can consider the
things we can change >> can't necessarily
» you know affect the other items if we want [snorts] to provide them to our
employees >> at the end of the day you look at it
it's just the cost of doing business >> and it's up to us to manage that
» exactly 100%
been there done that >> and see our revenue is dependent um
sales tax which we can't control at all. Who shops over here?
» Yeah. >> Or if they go away or COVID comes along
or whatever which devastated us several years ago.
» Yeah. And the way we have it so right now is our taxes is such a high
dependency upon them performing terrific.
» But then you said Joe and look at Oakidge and everybody around you and
we're well below them. You know what I mean?
» Yeah. So >> yeah, every year we try to,
you know, the department heads know if they ask me
for a big dollar amount, I always go, where are the alternates? Because I like
to challenge them to find other cost saving initiatives as well. Um, but
sometimes you can't you can't avoid it. Um, but like Charlie said, we do rely on
one of the most volatile type of revenues,
» you know, in government. Um, so that is something that you always have to be
cognizant of and we've done a really good job at keeping the tax rate.
» Yes, we have. >> Low.
» Even with our expenditures going up with the addit need for um, you know, fire
and police and those are typically your big budgets. Um everything else kind of
falls in line um as support budgets, but uh we've done a really good job at
keeping our tax rate low, >> huge for many years and and that's good.
I'm not >> Yeah.
» Yeah. >> It's just that that I want council to
look at the whole budget at the end. We're able to do that, you know, with
what we can control, but you know, sometimes we just can't because it's
based on the economy and, you know, pandemic or you other factors that are
well beyond our control >> and you never know what's going to come
down from legislation for unfunded mandates. You just never know.
» That's the greatest >> in my that's the landmines right now
» in my opinion for what can come down from the state. We cannot plan that.
» And I just don't understand how how that would be supplemented,
» how a cut in property taxes would would be supplemented other than raising sales
tax >> and you have to have the sales tax
» the state six and a quarter% and we're too.
» Yeah. >> Of which a half a half a percent is MDB.
» Yeah. what I'm saying at at the state level.
» You know, I mean, what other >> state they would have to either a
portion of their claim back to the pecking order of um other for the
remainder or they would have to increase their consumption tax, right? Well, to
to something for consideration, um, Councilman Pard talking about zerobased
budgeting, there there are things and different variables that we have that
it's beyond our control as far as, you know, fuel prices. We we can't control
that. So, so zerobased budgeting for that is very difficult because we don't
know what to calculate. We have to go off of estimations. is we have to go off
of what we previously used before and then guess on what the fuel prices are
going to average for the next year. Uh like this last year, we missed it
because we we estimated based upon uh $3.30. Well, that increase went up
higher than that. So th those are variables that that are beyond our
control, but we do our best to to budget based upon just the knowledge we have at
the time. Um zerobased budgeting it's it's you can do
that on on many of the items, but there are some items that you just you can't
[snorts] do that on. Um you just have to go based upon some
[clears throat] guesstimations.
Unfortunately, >> what he's trying to say is there's no
contingency, Jim. There's no >> Yeah, we try not to bug any
» things. So, we call it available cash. Okay, that's the term that
if we run over, we just get it from available cash. Well, you what's already
encumbered out, we don't know. And I've asked her, she's done a great job
addressing that. You know what I mean? So,
even though this says there's $3,000 in available cash, not the 180, but just
there's 3,000, it's really 900,000, >> right?
» I know it [laughter] is. >> You look at your last monthly report and
that's what you had. >> Oh, the It's a three million. Yeah, the
three. Yeah, the unassigned unassigned. Sorry.
» But in other words, encumbered. We said we're on Tam Road. We're a million nine.
ND said they're going to put in there. You know what I mean? And that's all
even their money's in this pool. So that's what I'm concerned about. Why I
start looking at all of this and feel the pinch that we Yes, we want police
officers. Yes, we want to pay it. But, you know, it's going to come to a point
where >> we're between a rock and a hard place,
» right? and it's going to come and it's close,
you know, and so do we raise taxes because it's all other people's money.
All of our money is what I call opium. Opium, other people's money. And
[clears throat]
and we can't control it. So, we just have to be and we've done a great job,
all of us, staff, all of us have done a great job of managing this and we're in
good shape. I just want to keep it. >> I do too. And I I just want to make sure
that we're going blindbody and the things that we can control that
we could say, "Look, I can cut here and I can cut here and I'm going to I'm
going to cut to the bone if I [snorts] can until it hurts it hurts the city."
And then that's how how much I would budget on areas like gas and things that
are totally uncontrollable. Yeah, you got to take a a swag. But um but the
ones that we can control to cut it as hard as much as we can. And there's
several items I think that every I think all every one of those lines have to be
looked at by each department head and and reviewed
by Sam, you know, and and that's what we do when
before it goes to Lisa for review. We're going I'm meeting with each department.
We're going through line by line items. we're looking at, okay, we can do
without this year, we can reduce on that year. And you see that in her summaries
up there where you see some of the uh the red where we've cut in certain
areas. And so that is happening on on that linear level, that granular level.
» And I believe if you go back to so my first budget cycle that I took over was
the 2018 fiscal year. Um and that was when um Joseph was interim um before
Kathy came back from Bassrop and we took a red we took a red pen to that budget
me and Joseph and we it was a it was a lot of push back but we
» we got rid of a lot of contingency that was built into the budget. Um, so and
and I can look in historically, but I think year-over-year our budget other
than personnel costs like police pay, parody, we have not had that great of a
percent increase. Um, because that one year, man, I don't even know what we
cut, but we cut a lot. >> Yeah. And I'll just add, and you can
look at this in the budget book itself. I just grabbed public works for the past
couple years where we had full data. Um so in the 2024
25 fiscal year the public works came within
you know 1% of what was budgeted is what was spent like 99% was spent. That's
that's incredibly tight. That's a little too tight.
» That's a little too close for comfort. The year prior to that came they came
with an 8% which is a little more comfortable. So um I think that just
shows there's not a whole lot of fluff there. It's pretty trim because we're
we're getting really close to that number, which, you know, it's it's kind
of a crystal ball to to to try to guess what you're gonna expend, but and you
can look at that across the other departments. Um, you know, you're not
seeing a surplus of 20 30% where the budget wasn't used. Um, so it's just
trying to hit that number. >> And our three largest bud budgets in the
general fund is going to be police, fire, public works. Those are I think
more than probably three4s of the budget if I had to guess off the top of my
head. And then again, public works is another
» that's another thing that's affected by external factors,
» you know, your chemicals and >> yeah, the price of equipment and
» repairs, >> the tariffs that we have to deal with
from suppliers and >> so that's heavily impacted by that.
» And you know, in the public works specifically, you know, there's funding
for road repairs, sidewalk repairs, and you just don't know where those numbers
are going to hit. You don't know what potholes are going to be filled. So
» you try your best. you kind of look at what it's been and try to base it off of
of that. So you you're hitting a number. You know, every time we go through our
budget, we look at, okay, what have our expenses been last year? And let's use
that as a gauge um to see where we're going to hit. We know where maybe we uh
we saw that the price of asphalt patch and co concrete patch has been going up.
Okay, we got to bump that number up because we know it's going to cost more
and we're going to be patching about the same amount.
And on the other hand, we've been pretty lucky the last couple of years that we
have saved on some of these projected expenses and have gotten money uh money
back >> on some of the capital projects. Some of
the capital projects expense control is >> staff works great
spending what they budget is just [clears throat]
we intend to spend this amount if you go over
you have to have available cash like this
and by state law I have to bal I have to I have to adopt a propos uh a balanced
budget so we have to make sure all the revenues supersede the expenditures.
» If you guys will just give me a little bit of forbearance and I'm still trying
to get my feet on these >> um I've got a very complic sort of a
complicated question and part of it is for CBB and part of it is for um our
reserve policy >> and
» we can so we can go um [clears throat] if you want to discuss that during that
time >> I think that's coming up
» it's it's all kind of intertwined. >> Okay, that's fine. These aren't separate
questions. >> Okay. Okay.
» All right. So, these are separate question. So, my [clears throat]
question is this. Um I I know this isn't a possible question, but I'm going to
ask anyway. Is there a way for you guys to predict general fund returns on CVB
expenditures? I know that we beds and beds is is our our phrase of of choice,
but I'm sorry to ask this question. I know
it's difficult to to predict, but um are you guys able to look into the future
and say, you know, the our activities are probably going to um generate so
much money for the general fund >> like an economic impact?
» Yeah. Yeah. >> And John does a good job with the state
on that. >> Yeah. I mean, one of the things that we
try doing like when we do annual report is highlighting we can't capture
everything. One of the things that are um different I guess in our traditional
business is in this city and many of you have known this and heard me talk about
this and it's the differences of not having traditional destination drivers.
So when we don't have a convention center, we don't have major sporting
fields that we're hosting tournaments on, we don't do major festivals that are
bringing people from all over. um those things that when you're looking at in a
traditional CVB operation you have sales teams you have all sorts of people
selling booking and all those things generate economic impact which come in
so what we do is we've built our own unique program we know what we're doing
we know how many rooms we are booking for our hotels we know and and and I you
know so room nights and rooms we've advanced a long way and tracking all
that based on our marketing programs that we do that we know with some
certainty. um the impact beyond that um and the dependencies on the economy. You
know, one of the things you also have to understand just like y'all are talking
here on a good year on a bad year is whether it's general sales tax or it's
our tourism production. You have to realize when the economy is bad or if
it's going down and people are getting stressed because they don't know if they
can pay their bills, buy medicine, put food on the table, or any of those types
of things. When that happens, travel is discretionary. It's the first
to get cut. And I don't have to look at you in simple economics. If you're
having a hard time, are you going to go out and be eating out as much or taking
your kids to entertainment venues or going on trips at hotels or do you go to
stay family or stations at home and find other things to do? People adjust. So
those are the other kind of things but we definitely have from our bureau and
what we're doing and what we're putting out um what we've been producing and you
know part of that annual report that we've talked about over the last
three years we've we've been almost on a three-year run of year-over-year
increases and all-time historic highs. So, and as as we're doing that, you
know, like I said, we can we can look at that.
» You guys have done a great job, and I'm not questioning that. It was it was kind
of I mean, and maybe when we get to that section, I'll re I'll restate
undifferent question. And I guess what I was trying to get to is this. We have a
a budget challenge it looks like in front of us. And um my question was and
maybe it's because main experience is if we could revise our um if we could
revise our budget surplus policy enough [clears throat] help bridge based on
projected potential from CVB driving funds into but that sounds like a pretty
broad question for you. >> Are you are you trying to So
[clears throat] I'm understanding you and I'm trying to just to be sure I'm
understanding the question. Are you trying to say if we know what we're
producing in room tax, hotel room nights or that put a correlation to that to we
already Lisa gets controller reports from the state controller and we know
what we're producing in sales tax. So are you just trying to see if we could
come up with a model algorithm for determining if there's a correlation
» in a sense and if we could project activities to future income only because
we we I think we have We have the statutory right to have a budget
stabilization. We could we could generate a budget
stabilization if we adjusted our our um surplus policy. I think we can do that
maybe one time. I don't know how many times we can do that. But
[clears throat] um and you're right, we we have to be
aware of of the swings in the economy. And I apologize I I'll switch this to
the CBD discussion later. I was just curious because it's a complicated
thing. Um, I don't want to I mean I mean our we provide services,
we provide protection, we provide continuity for all everyone who lives in
our in our community and and that's why we're here. Um, I don't like hearing
we're going to cut to the bone until the city hurts because the city is everybody
that we're trying to take care of, right? I know that whoever said that
meant that those of us are here, right? I mean, we're here to take care of our
of our neighbors. >> And so, um, and and
you know, Ron brought this up when he was when he was in this position. We
have a a huge surplus. I don't want to raid it. Um, but if we can do something,
if it's if this is challenging enough that a budget stabilization could be
considered, I'm just throwing that out there for just a sec.
» Okay, that's it. >> Let's Yeah, we'll let's discuss it. uh
in the next uh the next hour. Uh is everyone anyone ready for a break? Uh
don't I want to take 10-minute breaks every hour and I want to catch this at
[laughter] 4 hours till 9:00. We'll see if we can get to that goal.
» So would you let's take a 10 minute break. Come back at uh it's 5:55
6:05. Okay.
I forgot the cover.
» I know. I'm getting my hearing aid.
I'd
Step glass.
Yeah.
» Right.
sister.
» Yeah.
Anyway,
I stepped up
everywhere. She's like freaking out.
I was sticking in my foot.
Just slap me around.
Hearing
so better.
» But did I understand your question too? I wasn't sure if I understood your
question. Are you trying to tryation a little bit?
Well, no. A few things on that as I know it,
but the legis that's a legislative issue at the state level. It's not here. We
have our current, you know, Texas twostep as you were in there
and these are the uses of which I thought you were talking about our
reserves.
» Okay, that's misunderstanding. Ours have to be used for those enumerated whatever
they are.
move everything around
the event.
We're stretched.
» Yes.
» I know. I I I walked in 10 minutes before it started. So, you're good. I
was working the um
the
what I guess I'm saying is to do what are you talking about? Our
largest hotel is full service. It's under 5,000 ft of space.
» It can do about 2 225 in
in a contest. Many convention. That's probably the
best hotel.
And so my point on that is that is our biggest and the only
» and then we some of those rooms about00.
» Oh yeah. Yeah.
» But we don't have that enables us to be large.
So, so it's like when we our small medium
because one and only
it doesn't matter how nice it is like over it's 70 people
in a meeting. So, you're not generating big bucks
on 70 people
that's going to be that would be
negative on >> no off that and you only get 7%
on the city side for that. So whatever their state is
that
» he
finally go
Yeah.
reconvene uh this uh session. Uh we have a lot to
cover. So, let's uh let's try to move on a little quicker.
Um Lisa, will you continue? >> Yes. So, as we were talking and it, you
know, the light went off on my brain on the first couple pages of the budget
document, I do do a whole general fund proposed budget breakout. Um, and it
shows you the variance percentage variance of revenue and expenses year
over from the fiscal year prior to this fiscal year budget. So if you look at
it, the overall operating revenue for the city was about 3.6% increase
overall. So um, and the one department that had a
negative budget impact was technology. Good job, Chris.
Um, and that's with a lot of contract negotiations. Chris's budget is mainly
contracts. [laughter] >> I beat on him this year.
» And he does and he covers all technology contracts. So, it's not just his, it's
CB's contracts, water sewers contracts, and then they pay back the general fund
for that contribution. But it just puts all that into one budget for management.
» I even fired a couple of them, too. So, >> yeah. So, um, so you'll see the like
parks had a bigger increase, but they need more landscaping. Um, we added the
veterans park, electricity, stuff like that. Um, which electricity is also a
variable that we have to try to gauge every year. Um, my department did have a
larger increase, but it's because of the MCAD share, um, and our audit share. So
that's out of my control because it's based on the the MCAD share is based on
their p their budget and our valuation. It's a percentage of their total budget.
So those are things I can't really control. Um fire services that's based
on um they take 10 they're based on a 10-centent of our valuation. So if you
really think about our tax rate, a lot of that goes towards your fire coverage.
Um so and then other departments, not much. usually about four% or less
and then when you weigh it it's about 3.67%.
» Police department was 2.2 just saying
» that's just operational. That doesn't include your transfer placement. If we
did factor that in that would be a [laughter] higher uh but um because Taho
are >> yeah these are just for straight
operational costs like M.
Are there any any additional questions on uh item sub item A?
If not, let's move on to sub item B. Um, okay. So, moving on from the general
fund. So, just just a quick summary. The only changes I really have to budget
from what was proposed to now is the medical um contributions and the revenue
side is the property tax differential. Um, moving on to CBB. Um,
you'll see they do have the insurance differential as well like the other
general fund had. And because John, um, we we postponed his discussion from the
first budget meeting because we wanted the advisory board to meet first prior
to discussing their budget if there was any proposals or requests. Um and then
the second meeting, John was at um a conference, so we had to um postpone his
till today. So um pretty much the CBB budget has not um there's been some new
programs. I apologize. I need to get to that page.
Um so yes their um budget went up for personnel of course um contractual
services went about up about 12,600 supplies went up about 700 other
operating costs went up about 9,000 um and um
so if you look at their summary of change um sheet year-over-year I'll
you'll see there's from like that negative 25,000 it just moved to a
different GL so you'll see it pushed back or the 15,000 did um and then the
STR went to another line item that went to the advertising um so if there's any
specific questions about John's budget he [snorts] is here to answer those for
you >> I want to jump in there uh
our our board has met a couple of times now and uh in one in one situation John
presented a an event opportunity. Uh, and they they endorsed that. They just
wanted to make sure the council understood that. Hopefully, John will
have an opportunity at some point to >> to bring that forward. We're hoping that
he has success with it. >> The other thing is the the board uh
wants to participate in the annual conferences and training
opportunities. [snorts and clears throat]
Uh we've already scheduled them to attend uh destination Texas.
We opened it up to all of them of course uh and we would extend an invitation to
council. I had a communication directly with them and they were overwhelmingly
in favor of us participating in that program and uh we're excited
about it. So we we got registered and um [clears throat]
I'm not sure that we were reflecting enough in the budget for the future with
regard to training and conferences. >> Yes. So that was um one item I was going
to bring up was um we would probably need to increase their travel and train
and budget um for uh depending on how many conferences
they were looking at. >> Right. Yeah. Well, and I think that we
need the opportunity to evaluate that as as a board to see how many we would like
to go to. I know that Councilman Pard uh is planning on going to one in October.
Uh we have several of us, including um uh just at least five, I think. Isn't
that right, Sam? Five or six uh from the board and um and perhaps even a staff
person. I'm not sure. Uh but with uh with that said, it would seem to me that
this is a good time right now to go ahead and plan for that. We know what
these conferences are. It's it's there's historical data, I'm sure, that you can
draw on to calculate your you budget for travel and hotel and such. Uh so it
would really encourage us to do that, beef up that portion of the budget. And
um another question that's coming to mind uh that
could relate and help us with our revenue side of things both for not only
the CBB but for the general fund is what are we
what are we missing in the way of somebody on staff who is dedicated to
business development? Someone who knows how to sell. someone
who can go out and promote the city, can find the sponsorship dollars. You know,
we don't have to sponsor events and pay for everything out of a general fund or
out of CVB. What if we have somebody on staff who specializes in that type of
business activity? So, and they could be they could be a CBB employee and do uh a
monumental task would be just helping uh John and Billy in just the
organizational operation of the CVB and be out there promoting the CVB through
the sales efforts that they could do. I mean, it's it's something John said
earlier that really, you know, makes sense. We're not a traditional
in the traditional sense, but we could be kind of a hybrid.
» And um so maybe looking at the budget with regard to could we program a staff
person into this budget that could could be a out there helping to develop the
business? because uh the the truth is, you know, the more tourism we have, the
more people here, the more they spend, the more sales tax we bring in. And so
to sum that up, we're we're in a need and that need is
to raise more revenue. That's going to be part of the solution
to our future needs. And I would suggest we do something now to begin that
process. And um those are the two items I wanted
to bring forward. >> Yeah. So we can um if that's something
council wants to venture, I can work with John to get um salary scope put
together for that to add to the budget. Also, we'll look at the I do now have a
little bit of history because we just booked the travel and training so I can
see how that's all playing out and I can add that for the final budget adoption
as well. and CBB does have, you know, an anticipated budget surplus for just of
operational of 284. So that can be easily achieved in that
» budget. Councilman Robinson, on on that, I think we could to look at trying to
narrow down a a budget that we can work with is let's just say we want to
estimate all the board members do two conferences a year. that gives us a good
bearing of of what we want to budget for and then next year or the following year
if there's more or less depending on the participation of that we can adjust
that. So I think going forward just as a start let's just budget for two
conferences per uh per member. >> I think that's very reasonable. The the
whole point behind that for the benefit of our public who's listening and such
is you have a group now that it's a new group. They need to learn about the best
practices of the CVB operation. They need to learn what their role is. They
need to understand how hot tax is used and the benefits of of what we can do
with it and what we cannot such and such. Yeah. And so the whole it's it's a
it's it is it's an educational process and they need to understand and see how
John and and his team connect with other CVB directors and staff across the state
so that they it we all know what happens when you go to these conventions. You
start meeting people. You connect. You find out what others are doing and we
learn we learn from each other. Good
» point. We should be able to pay for it very simply because of the ideas that
each of us bring back to to help our city.
» These conferences can be tremendous. >> Absolutely.
» Good for us. >> And the only other thing that I think I
might add on that was previously um under Kathy's uh tenure and certainly
Joseph I might have spoken to you about this as well. We looked at different
models for that potential for a salesperson or to do a contract with
someone who could help in that capacity. So, it doesn't have to be necessarily
one way or the other. It could be a contracted position um with a firm or
someone to help with that. I've done already exploration into that.
Previously, it was sidebarred for a while. Um we don't have space for to put
a person right now. Thank you. You just brought up one more thing.
» What What about taking advantage of the fact
that we have a we have a really strong revenue stream that comes into our CVB
and looking at our budget and perhaps adjusting some of the expenditure level,
maybe advertising and some other line items. And what about setting up a
visitors center again? I know we had one at one point, but it was way, you know,
it was kind of like off the beaten path. What about having something right out
here on the freeway? A simple, easy to get to place that has a storefront and
create some space for staff and and maybe even put a uh police police
substation in it. >> Guess what, [clears throat]
» Sam? Sam got an idea like that. >> We've already steal your fund or
something. >> We've already talked about that and
taking actual steps. All right, I'm Sam. Could you elaborate a little bit on
that? >> Yes. And to dovetail on on that, we are
looking at suitable areas that could be a potential site for a visitor center.
Now, for a visitor center, and and John will agree with me, it needs to be in
the heart of the activity. >> So, yes, the previous or the former
location where you had it really wasn't an area where you're going to have a lot
of traffic. So, we're looking at areas uh potentially uh Metro Park is also is
a good area to have that because as that develops, as more programs uh and and
events that come to that area, you want to have that foot traffic u going in and
out of that visitor center to help promote our hotels, our restaurants, and
our shopping. And so, yes, um I think that would be a potential. Joseph and I
have have been looking at that and uh we're also talking with John about that.
We would need some funding of course to build out, you know, a space and also
look at leasing that as well. So, uh some funding for that would be
appropriate for this. Absolutely.
» Great minds think alike.
So, I can get with Lisa on some on some numbers on that on some estimates of
what we're looking at for that. I don't have any at this moment. Um, you know,
but I think we can come up with some pretty reasonable uh numbers on that and
again, as she indicated, we have the funding ability to be able to do that.
» Well, I really appreciate the uh consideration.
I just had a question on just one curious question. What is that? Uh the
capital project that was 29 299,000. >> It was technically part of the HVAC
because they use part of the building. So we divied up the HVAC based on the
square footage that each department each fund uses. So CB, water, sewer. Yeah.
and then general funds. [snorts]
» Yeah. So, anything else about Oh, you want to go back to tourism talk?
» I do not. >> Okay. [laughter]
You know, >> I think there's a more appropriate place
for that discussion to occur. >> Okay. Um, so yeah, other than that, um,
we'll work on some of those costs for the the final budget. So like what Sam
said for like the buildout that doesn't have to necessarily go against their
operational budget. The lease would the lease cost but the actual
uh buildout could be treated as a capital project out of their reserve.
And the CBB fund has like $7 million in the reserve. So shy of it. So um just to
let you put in perspective that's kind of that idea between recurrent and
non-recurring expenditures. >> Okay. Um if there's no other questions
about the um hotel motel fund CPB 20200, we'll move on. Next is going to be water
stewer. Um
» what number is [clears throat] wise?
» Uh CBB >> no that's 45.
» Uh the [clears throat] next item you're going to talk about I find it.
» So it's fund 600 department 50. >> 50.
» Yeah. And fund 600 has two departments. It has the uh department 50 water sewer
and then it has 51 utility billing. Um so the only changes I have for water
sewer at this point are um the medical and dental insurance differentials.
That's all I have. Um I am trying to rework the revenue numbers. Um they do
have a healthy budget surplus as of now. We're trying to gauge more of what TAMA
is going to bring on for additional revenue. And also we know we know that
the AMI project which is going to start soon once that's completed there will be
revenue that we know that we're losing because of older meters especially in
our commercial district. So it's it's it's kind of a balancing act
right now trying to figure out um what those revenues will be but they have a
healthy um proposed budget surplus so we should be fine. Um and I'll get those
revenues updated by the adoption uh meeting. So [snorts]
um water and sewer I don't think they had several changes but mostly it's for
operational I believe. Um
oh sorry that's utility billing. I was like wow they had no change but that's
utility billing. [laughter] Um
so I will make a note um you'll notice that their um personnel budget had kind
of increased significantly um because the p the some field service
operators are paid out of water sewer because of meter reads they do more
water sewer functions they are paid out of the water sewer fund um and because
unfortunately the field service position usually rotates more has turnover more
than because of the nature of that job. Um that it was left a position was left
off of the budget last year. So it's been approved. It was just we had a
vacancy for so long that when I did my calculations, it didn't bring it back
over. So that's why you see that differential and that was a mistake I
made last year. >> Huh?
» Don't do that. >> I know. So um but it's been corrected.
So that's why you'll see that um larger increase. It was already approved
position. It was just because there was a vacancy at the end of the year. It
didn't pull over correctly. >> What about the groundwater reduction
plan? >> So that is so that's based on pumpage.
So if you look at your water bill, you'll see there's a lonear conservation
district charge and then there's the groundwater conservation district charge
or groundwater >> conservation
» conservation, sorry. um those are um and Joseph could
probably explain that way better than me, but we're required to collect those
to promote conservation. So, the idea is it's a it's a percentage that goes on
your um usage. So, as you use more water, you pay more of that fee to then
try to promote conservation. Um so, what we do is typically um that's
usually a pass through fee. So we have an expender lineup that matches that and
it's mostly for the Cahula well down in Panorama Village.
» Did I hear you pass through? So there's a 27 $27,500
increase but really that's going to >> it's based on pumpage
» pass through. >> Yeah.
» Okay.
And that GL for the expenditure really mostly pays for the cattle well that we
have with Panorama Village. that was built in 2014.
Um there was a big decrease in the water sewer budget and it was for meter
replacements because we are doing a huge meter replacement project. So that did
reduce that line item by 52,000. Um those commercial meters are very
costly and we have a lot of commercial that
uses a lot of big meters.
Trying to find out what you're talking about. Oh, the 52. Okay.
» Yeah, that was the >> 525.
» Yep. >> Okay.
» We reduced what we need to do to replace because we're doing the larger AMI
replacement.
But other than that, other than um like I noted, there's I think the
only other larger increase they have is 12,000 and that was for increased sledge
halls because we're adding you do have to consider this budget does add on
another plant and several lift stations as well with the Tamina community.
» So your operational costs are going up as well.
And those fees that are coming out of the family community going to be
included into this >> the revenues.
» Mhm. >> Because they are now.
» So I did get some good um and that's the other problem is I try to base it on I
do get reporting from A1 from what each consumer uses because we now control
that CCN. So it's technically our reporting. Um, but we have to consider
that those meters are very old and they're probably not very accurate. So,
it's hard to gauge what will be a good revenue number for some of those
properties. >> Is there there wasn't a plan to replace
the meters to >> Well, that's what we're doing right now.
Okay. >> It's just based on their historical bill
and it's very hard to kind of pinpoint what
» Got it. Good. >> Yeah, that's what I thought I would.
» Those meters are very old. >> They're getting new meters. I really
» they'll be our AMI system. So we'll know >> that's what I thought.
» That's included in in phase two, right, of the Tamina project.
» The plumbing contract right now >> paid through with ARPA dollars,
» right? >> Which still has to be completed.
» Yes. >> Yes.
» Very aware.
» Is there any questions about water sewer? Uh
Um if there's nothing else and then just utility billings the other the other
part of order sewer and there was no increases other than the salary and
wage. Um Tammy does a really good job at
negotiating prices for bills and everything else like that. So
that's about it I got for water sewer unless anyone else has questions.
Not until you get to capital projects. >> I know. Yeah.
» And then section D is non- major funds. Those are legitimately
the off the revenue offset for the equipment replacement transfers. And
then the metrop park. Um the PID has no bearing on any city financials. The the
city does not pay for anything for the PID. Doesn't pay for the debt payments.
It's all from the special assessments on those properties within the metrop park
boundaries. But state legislation requires me to
adopt a budget for them. So that's what that is.
» Even if it has two goose eggs. >> Yes. So that is one of those things that
just has to be there. It's a little confusing, but that's it. Um and then
the trash um fund is a non- major fund and it's 140 and it's basically just the
cost of trash and then the transfer is the revenue from general fund for the
the coverage of the trash cost. That's about it.
» Okay. >> Okay.
» Yeah. If you want to move on to >> We're going to move on to item number
nine, special consideration items.
[clears throat] >> So, mayor and council, um, I kind of
provided a combined document for your review. Um I believe it was March could
have been February but we did discuss [clears throat] the general fund. I did
a reserve study based on GFOA's best practices and with in coordination with
um the developer of that that um um um trying to think what a good word be
basically he helped create that framework um Mr. Kavanagh with GOA. So I
worked with him and did kind of a rate um a reserve study and the 180 days as a
background was um adopted I believe in 2018 um when we had a newer council come
on board they wanted to make sure that reserves were um safekept and they were
used for appropriate reasons. Um so they put in that 180 days even though the
GFOA best practice is 90 days at a minimum. Um, so we do supersede that
obviously. Um, and we have since about 2018, 2019 [snorts] I believe. So, um,
that currently puts us about 5.9 million because it basically takes your average
daily cost of business and then divides over 365 days. There is, you also have
to take consideration if there was a major revenue shortfall, we're not going
to continue operations at full capacity. I think there will be things that will
have to be looked at and maybe foregone. Um, you know,
you're not going to, you know, we may not, um, do as much travel and training.
We may not do as much um, we might look at our contracts and see what we can
reduce. You're going to go into negotiation mode and try to figure out
what is the necessity and what is something we can bypass for at least a
year. >> Um, so that number is based on straight
up how the budget is. doesn't take consideration that there will be
reductions. Um so you know I think so at the end of the
study and I'm not going to go through the whole presentation. I already did
that once but um it is online on my financial transparency page the
presentation if you would like to see it. Um but it put our risk score at a
26. So it basically recommends that we stay within the 90 to 120day reserve I
believe. Um, so if the council and council has the
right to revise that policy, um, I can revise it at the direction of what you
guys prefer. Um, and there are if you read the policy, there are certain
things that it can cover such as non-recurrent items, revenue shortfalls.
But if you go if you know we and when you look at our general fund reserve on
unassigned balance, there is a cushion. We have about 3
million that's not restricted whatsoever. So that money can be used
for non-recurrent items and we don't even have to touch our 180 days. So we
do have a healthy reserve on both sides. Um so it's really just what you want to
put as your minimum. So if there was a larger project or an opportunity that
came on, you're if you needed to go lower, you have more flexibility.
Basically, that would be the situation.
It doesn't if we lower it doesn't mean tomorrow you're going to we're going to
spend it. that that does not mean that it just gives you more flexibility based
on our historical. We have seen what our volatility and our risk is and and
Charlie brought up during COVID, we were fortunate still to pretty much still
come out okay. Like we were very fortunate our belt
» a lot to go liquor sales. We'll say that [laughter]
» Lisa did well >> tightening the belt
» when I was looking at this graph. >> Uhhuh.
» And uh the major event issues. >> Yes. And you could see where when we
when COVID hit that dip was not
as dramatic as I thought it was going to be.
» And then the way we bounced back from that
» sales tax just >> it just saved the day.
» It did. It saved the day. But but it was the fact that we recovered so quickly
and that to me and look at Harvey when Harvey came through how quickly we
recovered from that. >> Mhm.
» And it just in my mind reinforces the fact that uh yes we absolutely have to
have a reserve. That is a good business practice. I think we just probably can
back off of that a little bit and uh a 90-day would probably be sufficient.
But not having had a apparently when council did this,
there's no real professional risk analysis that was done. It was an
arbitrary kind of decision, wasn't it? >> Yeah, it was just from
» But that's fine. But now we we we're in a situation today where we you know we
had to raise taxes last year. We're looking at what our needs are going to
be for the future. If we free up some of that for the future and classify it the
way the council thinks it should be, whether it be, you know, committed to
certain funding type activities. I'm not suggesting that we just
unclassify it and leave it there as but maybe it could some of that could go
into available cash for the future. And [laughter] at any rate I I personally
feel like 90 days is a pretty good number.
» My question is what does it cost us based on you know what it has maybe over
the last five years? How much have we had to put into the reserve to keep it
at that 180? >> It just varies on your budget increase
every year. So, usually I think it varies about 100,000 um we throw in
there every year give or take. >> It's self supporting basically. Joe, I'm
sorry. >> It's self-supporting basically. 100,000
90,000. >> It just depends on what your
expenditures are that year divide by you know.
» Yeah. So wherever your So like our expenditures don't go up a whole lot,
right? They go up about 3% 4%. >> That's money we didn't spend.
» That's money we did not spend. >> And we've been very fortunate the last
couple years uh with interest rates. I know it it hurts most of the world, but
we've been very um beneficial of interest rates, but I can't bank on
interest rates, so I can't use as a main revenue source because those can change
overnight. >> No. [laughter] Okay. So, but that that
has added a lot to our reserve amount as well is that additional revenue that we
don't >> you can't really budget for interest. I
put a little bit in there. Yeah. >> But you just never know what's going to
happen with interest rates. >> Yeah. Unlike
» do we have Sorry. Do we have an official austerity plan already? Have we already
looked in case something happens? >> Like a like a um level of service plan
basically if there's a >> minimum level of service plan already.
So I so obviously there is priorities that we will you know personnel is going
to be our priority that to retain and retain our service. Majority of our
personnel is PD so that would be you know that's going to be our first
priority. Second priorities are going to be contracts that we have to commit to
and that are you we need to do for cost of business. And then usually the other
things are going to be like your office supplies your travel and training. those
things are going to be the ones that get more chopped than not. Office equipment,
um stuff like that. Um we'll probably if a project hasn't started, we might try
to postpone that, you know, just to try to keep some revenue um unallocated at
that point. >> I'm not familiar with municipal
strategic plans, but could that be covered in [clears throat] in as part of
the strategy? >> U expense.
» Yeah. >> Yeah.
Absolutely. Yeah. >> Yeah. How much money we can use and
how >> we don't have a policy written written
out like but we have a good plan of what >> a priority earnest. You know what I
mean? But it's not etched in stone. >> It also depends on the situation as
well. You don't have one situation that's going to umbrella everything. So
depending on what what it is that we run into, we have to tailor our operations
based on that. exactly why there isn't >> like CO would probably be a good
example. Um during CO um obviously there wasn't much transin because everything
was shut down. So that saved some money there. Um we also um you know not a lot
of people were out and about so we saved fuel costs you know so there's things
that happened because there wasn't you know there weren't as
many people out and about so PE wasn't responding to crashes and
» most of it was rain and wind damage. >> Yeah. So, um, yeah. So, the situational
is a good reason. Yeah.
And if we do have an emergency like Harvey was a one of our biggest ones
because it shut down and Barrel was our last one because it shut down. Shannido
was one of the last areas to get an electricity I think.
» Yeah. Barrel. >> Um, so um, you know, you lost a week of
revenue retail sales. The only benefit of we've seen is when you have a natural
disaster, they call it the boom. So, usually you'll have a disaster and then
the next month people have to replace beds, they have to replace um groceries,
you know, so you'll see a mass influx of sales tax the month following,
especially during a flood event in Southeast Texas. If your house gets
flooded, Home Depot is going to be making some profits. Um U Sam's Club,
same thing, too. you know, you'll see those those retailers pick up a lot
[snorts] of revenue the month after a natural disaster. Um, so it's all
situational based. It's a little hard to kind of gauge, but the priority has
always been keep personnel level and keep service level, but let's adjust
what we can to offset that, you know, economic differential.
Well, I'd like to advi propose that we revise our reserve policy and that we
ask our city administrator to make a recommendation to the council on
the number of days.
» Yeah. >> Have his input on here as well because
» yeah, we'll put this on a future agenda then
» we can get it on to the 20 I would prefer to get it on to the next the
26th. >> Yeah. See it as soon as possible. we can
turn that around pretty quick. >> Um I I would also recommend that and
once we look at reducing that >> that day coverage, we can also give some
recommendations on what we could potentially apply those savings to.
» Whether it be >> all one-time expenses or we sock away
some for other projects or infrastructure projects that may come up
that we're looking at down the road. And I know Joseph has a whole bunch of them
that we could probably apply to as well, >> right? I think it's great.
» Perfect. >> Do that then.
» It's got a whole 10-year plan. >> Yeah, [laughter]
» he knows how to spend it. >> 10 years worth,
» but he plans it well. >> Yes, he does.
» All right. Thank you, Lisa.
The next thing is going to be court study. So, I'll let Jackie take it away.
Yeah. So, mayor and council, this came up as a u an item presented by council
to take a look at could there be a potential revenue source to the city if
our Shannidoa officers were to file their tickets uh with our court versus
their current uh practice and procedure of filing it with McGomery County
Precinct 3. Um, and so what we looked at is both the what would be our necessary
budget impact and budget expenses compared to what the revenue potential
could be um with those tickets. And so just a a high breakdown what was
included in the uh what Lisa sent in the special consideration is to reestablish
a municipal court here. we would have to reallocate some funds from the current
community development uh department which would be salary and wages uh and
then add some additional funds for operating expenses contract services and
then some initial startup costs. That court budget would be roughly $135,696.
uh you'll see that breakdown the reallocation from community development
the existing court budget to the fiscy year impact this year of the 57
uh $5925 the offset of that the revenue side the
projected revenue side we looked at the uh number of
traffic violations identified within the police department for the 25 calendar
year uh which was 5,926 traffic violations, which I used a
matrix from our local uh surrounding courts to determine
those dispositions. When you look at a court ticket, you've got somebody can
just choose to pay in full, close it out. There are certain violations that
have administrative fees that can then close it out at a reduced rate. Um or
those that are either dismissed by the judge, deferred, appealed, those those
types of activities. And so based on those uh historic disposition patterns
from our local courts, we could approximate that with the number of
citations that were issued from that 5,926
violations uh a potential revenue stream of 50,000.
And so basically after comparing the budget impact and the budget needs with
the operations of the police department currently is not um
uh it's not financially feasible at this
point in time. Um we chief Dunlap did look at the 26 numbers and they're
trending just about the same as the 25 numbers. Um, and we talked about just
continuing to monitor that to see if there is in the future a potential that
those revenues could could be there for the city. Um, but at this point in time,
» not the case.
» You never mentioned warrants FTAs for >> correct. So it's
» that kills the police department. >> It does. So right. So there is um and a
part of that technology fee is there are um there are certain programs
[clears throat] and softwares that you enroll on that do notify either our
department or other departments that are prescribed to it to those warrants. Um
service of those warrants whether it's even just from the the court staff side
needing officers signature to execute summons those kind of things but also
the transportation and and the issuance and the handling of those warrants.
Right.
was a big annoyance to the residents who I I got called up here I think about
twice a year to serve on the court and I hate it all everybody I know hated
coming down here for that >> and uh it's a it irritates everybody
also gives you the it gives the the image in in the community that how
» how bad we are how bad our police force is.
» Yeah, >> I I did include that as part of the the
analysis too. Um I I did I I did I was curious about what that looked like as
far as jury selections with our residents and um surprising to me
Oakidge only had a couple jury trials scheduled. So I don't know if it's and
and that was a primary factor in when I looked at this is what are their their
dispositions look like because we would maybe not see the same type
[clears throat] of violations but the same type of violations between you know
this this immediate area. Um so surprisingly lower than I expected on
that but yes you are correct. If we did need a jury pool, it would be our
» We don't have that many people in this community to go to those those meetings.
And what was it? Every Tuesday or so, every Wednesday, you would have the
court. >> They were doing court twice a month. Um
and I think that's what Oakidge does. I would anticipate uh I I did budget for
two court settings um a month, but that would just depend
on on docket load and sizes, too.
» I'm not falling. It doesn't sound like it's feasible
thing to do.
All right. Can municipalities
share court facilities and split costs and split revenue?
» I think it you run into an issue with the jurisdiction overlapping. Um our we
I don't want to say we share judge and prosecutor services. you're talking
about um could we could we pair up for jury trials and and stuff like that if
we were to have those? You can. I I do see like um what happens is
um uh for Huntsville example and only reason I know this is because I was
actually called for jury selection um for on a municipal court. [snorts]
They will they will pile a court docket for just jury trials. They will select
one jury and that jury will try all two, three, four cases. So you're not
consistently compiling, you're not you're not having to pull for one
setting per one citation. >> Um so that that practice may slim that
down a little bit, but again, you're still
» reaching out to the community, the local community to to compile the jury. Do we
do we have any obligations financially to the county
» for for administering our >> No, they they uh their financial gain is
by the disposition of those cases that are filed over there.
» Thank you, Jackie. Thank you.
» We're going to move on to the strategic plan study.
I'll take that one, mayor. >> Okay. So, this was a item that I put on
and I believe this is a uh strategic plan for the city gives us a roadmap of
where who we want to be, what our identity is, and shared visions from not
only the council but also staff. So, we put this shared vision together. It
gives us a road map, a playbook of where we want to be, short-term and long-term
goals. Usually, you look at a three to five year strategic plan. Now, this plan
needs to also be flexible because we know that there can be turnover on
council as well. But what what's good about it is it gives us a a scoring
grade book of where we're going to be in that that 3 to 5 year period. And I know
the council here has a lot of great ideas. We have a lot of visions. And I
think if we pull all those visions together and align them in a strategic
way, we can accomplish those goals together. And so what I've put together
is an estimate of around 60,000 to go out for proposals for us to have a
strategic plan. The strategic plan will also tie into our budget process. So
whatever it is that we determine is our initiatives for strategic plan, we will
need to budget for that too. So we would do this strategic plan before the budget
process starts so that we can align that up. So when you're while when we're here
next year at the same time, the items that we're bringing for you will be tied
to the strategic plan. >> So happy to answer any questions you may
have on that. Well, sure. I got to jump in here because in, as you all know,
sat on his side of the the bench when it came to public
administration and and all my organizations did this.
This is actually fun to go through for a council to go through a strategic
planning session with staff. You get together, you you do a retreat,
you spend time establishing what your vision is, what
your mission is going to be. You identify those things. You set goals.
Usually, I've seen, I think, anywhere from six to eight major goals will
evolve. They'll they'll come out of this conversation.
um goals about staff, goals about public works, goals about parks, and it just
goes on. And just as as uh Sam just said, out of that, you'll have a set of
strategies and these are your budget tools. They're
your triggers. You want to accomplish this. Here's your strategy. What's the
cost associated with that? And when the councils adopt these strategic plans,
they now have hooks that they can hang their hat on when they make a decision
about they want to spend on X to accomplish this. Whoa, it's in this
routine plan. It really works well with the public. The public perception of the
fact that hey, these people put a plan together. We can read it's very
transparent. It's out there. It's of course with the internet and I want to
say it's so easy for them to see. and you and you the this is totally
different. You've heard of terms like comprehensive plans and such.
That's not what this is. This is something that uh we used a term uh Joe
uh Sam is a evergreen. >> Yes.
» Right. Meaning that it evolves. It changes with the seasons. Whatever
seasons we might be in. So I I'm so excited that you're going to do this.
Thank you.
Yeah, something different because we did have a we do have a 10-year plan. I know
we we went over that. >> You have a comprehensive plan.
» Comprehensive plan. A comprehensive plan is a big vision required by statute.
Basically, states require it. You know, how are you going to deal with these
major projects, mobility, all of that kind of stuff.
» This is how you're going to operate. >> It's like a therap.
» Yeah. And and typically you want to try to tie in some of those plans, your
comprehensive plans, yes, your uh say water and sewer studies as well, your
parks master plan that also ties into your strategic plan so that you're
meeting those goals on all areas of the city. It gives us purpose is what it
does. >> Yeah,
» sounds like a good idea. >> Any other questions? I just uh more of I
guess I'm still trying to I've been through different things of this and so
the definitively uh depending on who you're talking to,
what industry you're talking to, haven't been haven't done that here in this
industry and so I'm just trying to find out what's what's this kind of scope,
you know, the tangible scope uh that you can grab on to say this is, you know,
this is the vision of, you know, looking at what we want to do for the vision
that we see. So there there has to be so many different types of tangibles and
you know that's so I guess I'm looking at that looking for definitive
» correct. You want to have obtainable goals. So like any goals that you set
forward for anything personal or business you want to make sure they're
achievable and that you're capable of doing those. You don't want to set a
goal that's not achievable. And it comes from the ideas that we put together, we
brainstorm together. It could be public safety, it could be quality of life, um,
and so forth. And so those are the things that we don't know yet until we
get into a room together and start identifying
» what it is that we want Shannondoa to be. And a component of that also is to
get resident feedback on that as well. >> Yeah, absolutely.
100%.
» Good. >> So, this item is one of those items
that's like a non-recurring item that can be funded out of the available cash.
It doesn't have to go against your tax rate operational budget. So, that's this
is kind of a good example going forward of what can you know?
» Yeah, >> this in capital projects.
» Um, >> good. So, is there consensus to move
forward with this item? >> I certainly in support of it. Yeah.
» Okay. >> Yes. and and Joe uh and everybody in
here. There's a couple places you can go uh go to the Woodlands Township,
look for look at their strategic plan. You'll you'll get immediately you it'll
you'll understand it. Or go to uh um uh oh just just let me there's a couple of
other towns up in Dallas area that are have some really good ones too.
» I think McKini has a good one. Yeah, Mckenn's
got a McKenna's got a great strategic plan.
» I I can send the council some examples links to cities that have strategic
plans. You can get an idea what we're looking at.
» And also with the strategic plan, my department can finally get the best
budget award with GFO. You do [laughter] need a strategic plan.
» That's right. >> So it [clears throat] would go into
other good things. So [snorts] um so I will put 60,000 as the cap. Um, and
we'll see what the bids come in as and then if there's additional funding
needed, we'll come back at that time >> and we can always negotiate.
» Okay. Um, >> so we'll segue to CBP.
» Yeah. So, I don't have an actual that was not an um that was kind of [snorts]
um after we started talking, CBB would have its own strategic plan because
obviously it's different than a city strategic plan and I'll let Sam kind of
elaborate. >> Correct. and and really same type of
vision uh for the tourism is to have a strategic plan for the board and for
staff to understand what what what it is we want to do and what is our strategic
planning for tourism and for our CVB department. And so by having a strategic
plan, same idea, what is our identity? What do we want to be? What is our
purpose and goals? And I think that is also needed for that uh particular area
as well. Give us some guidance, give us a roadmap.
» Right. So I think uh we'll have that conversation in our next uh board
meeting. Uh I suspect that uh you'll have a consensus from that group as
well. So might as well go ahead and move forward.
» So put please go the same amount. >> Yes, I I'd say the same amount.
That would be totally off CB funds, not the general fund.
» Okay. Um and then the last um study under special consideration studies um
we'll get through this and then we can take a break is the salary and comp
study request. Um and that's also a SAM request.
» Correct. So one of the items I' I've also want to look at is you know we
talked a lot about pay parody for the police department. I think we should
also look at our compensation for the other side of the house, non-public
safety. Um, we're a unique city. We have uh a small department, but we have many
hats that everybody wears. So, there's a value to that. And um our our employees
are very marketable that way. And as we move forward as a city, we need to be
able to have competitive rates so that we can retain and also recruit uh the
best um team members so that our city can continue to function. Um give a good
example and you know when we did the tours around the city and we talked
about our infrastructure, our public works department, you know that group
wears many hat wears many hats. They're dual certified. Most cities don't
operate that way in [snorts] public works. So, they're very marketable. They
can go to a private utility somewhere and make more money or have better
opportunities. We want to keep that. We have very talented and very skilled uh
public works uh employees. And that's just one example. You can go around the
city, finance department, you know, community development, CVB, you know,
everywhere around the city, we have that same same type of mentality. We we want
to keep and retain that. So, I think a compensation study is needed to see
where we're at. And what a compensation study does is looks at your particular
your particular operations, what your pay rates, what your
compensation, your benefits packages are compared to others around your area. We
compete with large cities around their area. We compete with the Woodlands
Township, city of Tombball, city of Conroe. You look at a 30 mile radius,
those are the cities that we're competing against. We're a small city,
so we want to be able to be competitive. We don't have to be the highest, but we
can be competitive and we need to evaluate that. The study could indicate
that some areas were pretty good and it could say also that some areas we need
to improve a little bit. And so the idea of a compensation study is to bring
someone in from an outside and take a look at that and study that for us and
maybe also create some policies with for us too that can help us uh be
competitive as well. So my uh cost estimate for that would be around 50,000
to bring in a consultant to be able to do that.
Happy to answer any questions you may have. that can be split between CBB,
water, sewer, and finance based on and I'll do it based on probably a current
payroll share like the breakout between the cost of
those contracts.
» Good idea. >> Yeah,
» I won't have those numbers right now. I'll bring them back.
» That'll take me a minute. But those that's one of those ones that could be
split. The strategic plan also with water sewer can be split.
» Any additional questions on this? >> Just remember, Charlie, that might
increase that 3%.
» All right, might reduce it. [laughter] >> All right, 7:00.
» Let's take a 10 break. >> We just have a consensus, right, for
this godd? Yes. >> Yes. Okay,
» let's take a 10-minute break.
How's that fire?
I try to make it. >> I
break it down. When we do, >> you know,
You can't go wrong.
They're
everywhere.
I saw your thing.
Charlie.
the people that I haven't
sad because my own day.
I was in combat.
You go to Fortnite.
» Yeah.
I got this online.
Yes.
» Always. >> Always.
» Always.
It's just
short not much.
But it's
» itever
watching the music.
» Yeah.
Did he first like you need a little pick me up?
for you to take back with you.
» Oh my god.
I'll bring
There's
back and forth.
I mean,
I thought it was
too many.
Oh, she is so
figure out what's
Good morning.
Let's uh resume a discussion, a budget discussion.
Lisa. >> Yes. So, we are on personnel items of
the special consideration items. Um, the only new personnel request that we have
this year is for a water and sewer operator. Um, and I'll let Rall um
introduce that item. >> Thank you, Lisa. So, yeah, this is the
recommended position for a new operator. As you all know, we're going to be
adding Tamina community which is includes four live stations. uh new
water plant and also we just had the uh recent expansion of our wastewater
treatment plant. So uh our operator is running everywhere right now. They're
going to every site every day and uh they're working a lot of hours. So it's
they're we're burning them right now and with this additions we definitely need
this new position open. Um it's hardly needed. So um
» can you pull that mic closer to >> Yes.
Uh so Lisa put in there uh the average cost complete cost for a new operator
position. This is for uh DD license wastewater d water and a total of pretty
much $80,000 for a new operator. That's what the cost of CD for any operator. So
we have to answer any questions on this. >> How how difficult will it be to recruit?
So actually we already have the position open on our website.
» We wanted to get a um list of operators that already applying. So as soon as
this is approved, I can get already have a list so of operators available. I
already have a a few um uh resumes in my in my office uh that I
contact them. I told them this is on the budget. hopefully it gets approved so I
can uh contact them for a final interview.
» Is is it getting harder >> to find these qualified people?
» It is getting harder and also there's I call them wolves trying to steal them
from me. >> Oh yeah.
» And you know that's that's what the paper I mean paper for everybody is very
highly needed. >> Yeah.
» Yeah. I think if you're carrying multiple certifications Yeah. we're
making our people too marketable. >> Yeah. [laughter]
» Yeah. Yeah. And it's private companies as well, not just other cities are uh in
need of operators. >> Yeah. and uh they they give him these
contracts that are uh very attractive on the on the hourly base and they
sometimes young operators um go for that because you know uh they
don't look at all the benefits that CD provides and but they look at the high
pay job right away and we we need to compete with that and we're doing a good
job. Uh this is the first step on on the on this.
» Do we pay for certifications? We do. >> Do we ever have we ever or can we
honestly we did this and when I was in telecommunications when we put people
through certifications that we had them sign a document that they're going to be
around for at least a certain amount of time. I didn't know if that's
you know you can do it or not. [clears throat] And uh it just
» Texas is a right to work state. So >> yeah a little hard. Yeah.
» Very don't hold water. >> Yeah. Test it.
» Yeah. >> You say it wouldn't hold water.
» It wouldn't hold water. >> Yeah.
» What we spend on those certifications is not much. Um so it's definitely I don't
I don't want to put that in a contract that will avoid
» because of that. >> But how's the turnover in that that side
of the engineering >> for operators in specific? I I was an
operating engineer in New York for 33 years, but I was on the hoisting and
portable side, not stationary side. >> This is what you're talking about is a
stationary engine. >> Yes. I mean, you've all been on our
wastewater treatment plan. It's not the best smell in the world. It's a hard job
as, you know, it's a, you know, you're in the sun the whole time. You uh
» But you know that going in. >> Yes. Yeah. But sometimes it gets to
people at certain point that they cannot take it anymore. So, you know, you you
need to take care of them to to keep them. And we've been doing a good job. I
mean, uh we've had a good leadership with Joseph. I'm trying to continue that
as well. Uh earning their trust and uh trying to have the best public works
department in this in the state. So, and and Charlie, specifically to your to
your question, if you recall, this probably about two or three years ago,
we almost lost a couple of operators because they were being head-hunted by
another firm and >> and we did a quick evaluation of
salaries and got them up a little more competitive. Um, so we've been able to
retain them with council's help to make sure that they're being paid
competitively. Um but so we've been able to keep a pretty good um handle on our
operators and the nice thing we have is three of our four operators started as
field service reps got their certifications and then promoted up into
that position. We were able to promote that from within. So that's helped
maintain some of that loyalty as well. >> But you're looking right now for someone
that is an operator that's going to step into this.
» Yes, we Yes, we'll need someone to step into it. We we don't have anyone in the
field service rep ready to to move up move up.
» Yeah, you probably should have already had this person
» in place, you know, in reality because of the amount of work that they those
guys do, >> right? That there's so many programs,
you know, fog ordinance, backflow prevention, inspections, there's so many
programs that just fall by the wayside because they're important, but they're
not critical. And right now we just have to focus on the critical.
» R, you said you want to have the best public works department in the state.
» That sounds like a goal in a strategic plan.
» That might be an idea. >> And Charlie, uh, with other cities that
I've worked with, it's probably one of the more higher
rated turnover areas. You're looking at at least at least 50% in other cities
that I've worked in. And it's just the nature of the job. It's It's hard hard
to recruit and it's hard to keep. [snorts]
» Well, that brings up uh at the top the leader there. You've got the leader is a
highly certified, highly highly soughtafter. I think I think he's
nearing retirement. Do we have a succession plan?
» I have some ideas on that. Yes. >> We're training and
training two of our best operators right now to take that role. Both.
» Good. >> Yeah. And and I was not kidding on the
on the best public course department in the state. Um I will be applying to TML
to get that award. >> That's there you go. Awesome.
» There you go. [clears throat]
» Pride ourselves and their employees take care of them.
» Yes, sir. >> Whatever their their job is.
» And I will rework these numbers. This is a quick estimate, but I'll make sure
that I encompassed all the costs that you know I just wanted to make get a
estimate number into this um document. [snorts] So that'll be added to the
summary change sheet if you guys by consensus their budget can handle
another operator their operational budget at this point. Um so if I can
just get consensus if we want to add this position it's water sewer fund
totally. >> Oh I don't think choice.
» Okay. All right. So, I will add that.
» Is is it appropriate for me to just say what a pleasure it is to work among a
group of people who aren't yelling and screaming at each other? I
» think thank you guys. All of you. >> I keep the jersey low.
[laughter] >> Wasn't always that way. She keeps the
jersey low. >> But no, you're good.
» Thank you for that. No, >> we are a good team. Um, if I ask them to
find a different alternate or bring me something different, no one fights me to
my face. >> But [laughter]
I think but we're really good. We work well together.
» I think the the reason we work that way, uh, Ernie is is because we have a
tremendous staff. >> Yeah. who really
looks out for us for us and provides all the information and all everything we
need to make the the right decision and I think that uh logically that's that's
what we all should be thinking about you know does this like Charlie always says
how does this benefit Shannondoa we want to do whatever it takes to benefit our
residents and our community and and as long as we keep that as as the main
focus focus. >> Look, I it's I came here worn out today.
It's been a very intense month for me. Um, but all I want to do now is smile
because I know that my family is being taken care of here and I really
appreciate all of you guys. All of you. I really do.
» Thank you. >> Thank you.
Okay. So, the next item under the personnel special consideration um last
year, as you guys recall, um the um Harris County, McGomery County, and
Houston PD, um pretty much proposed pay parody um for your plans that were
pretty sticker shock um to most of us. Um and we knew because we had um a
vacancy of I believe five officers, Troy, at that time period. Um which five
is a lot for our agency um of like 30. So um we needed to act um to get those
positions filled and attracted with that pay parody. Um last year, as you recall,
it was a pretty significant hit. Um and we were very fortunate that we had that
unused increment with the tax rate to be able to accomplish that pay parody. Um
so this year though um Chief Dunlap did rework some of the numbers. It's not the
proposal is not as high as it was last for what we anticipated for year two of
pay discussion. Um so that is in this chart right here. Last year we had
estimated the year two would have added about 470,000 to this operating budget.
Um the numbers that have been reworked will only if approved add 137 138,000
estimated um to our budget. There is no we because we operate on an annual
budget we can't commit funds for future years on personnel and stuff like you
know for stuff like these. So that's why this year two discussion is coming back.
It does not mean that we need to approve it. It does it could be delayed. It
could be looked at again next year. It's just because we had presented as a
four-year plan. We're bringing back a hypothetical year two to you for
discussion only. And if you wanted to pursue that, we can add that into the
budget. Um but I will let Chief Dunlap kind of answer any questions. Um,
but it basically kind of just increased every position by about a $167 an hour.
Um, and that's pretty much if you looked at that second page that kind of breaks
out the difference between the two scales, you'll see that for pretty much
every step in every scale.
So, if you recall, um, McGomery County, their first year of the pay parody in
2026, they were going to 70,900. Of course, we went to 75 to stay above
that and be competitive. Um this year the the projected um starting pay would
be 81,900 but
um we don't know what McGomery County is going to do at this point in time. I do
know that Conro has uh I don't I'm sure y'all seen the headlines that Conro is
going for 20%. So, uh, what that's going to equate to is this 81 the second year
of the the pay parody. So, it'll be >> pay it'll be the 81. Uh, I know that,
uh, Houston has adopted the 81, which I was very surprised that they did that.
Um, so it's just
we were last year when we presented this, uh, we wanted to stay with the pay
parody and we knew we had to bring it back year-over-year to to, uh, just be
competitive. Um, I'm thankful last year that we were able to do that and get
that first year uh, up higher. Um, and knowing that we got it up that higher,
that's the reason why I came back with a lower number this year because I knew it
wouldn't be as big of an impact. Um, but if y'all have any questions about
it, >> how how far out of the line did we
last year? I don't remember the numbers in front of us, but how far out of a
line were we? So, so we went we went above um at we actually hit above
McGomery Countyy's 70 um because we didn't know where they were going to be
at at that time. They hadn't come back with the numbers
» and that was from what number that up. >> I can pull that. Sorry. I'm going to
pull that presentation up. >> The their their previous year I believe
it was 70 I meant 60 and then went to 70.
» Okay. Um, and then we went we did se we went to
75. So
I knew that there would be less of an impact, but I did reduce it. I reduced
it down to 78. So uh, as starting pay, so it wouldn't
match the 81, but I knew it would be less of an impact there.
» Yeah. >> So it would be from 75 to 78.
Chief, uh, isn't Conro's 20% jump? That's really because they didn't do
anything last year. Is that right? >> They they didn't do anything last year,
correct? And they lost they lost personnel. I think
» they lost personnel. So, >> they finally woke up and
» and then they jumped on board and then they got with the pay parody too. But
they also had a new chief. Uh, and that new chief, uh, I believe was going into
a new budget that that wasn't new council.
» Yes, they have a new council as well. >> That's why it's so
» Yeah. >> Yeah.
» Um, [clears throat] my I I guess my question is um, and I I tried to ask it
the other day before, but I didn't formalize it. words
wouldn't come out of my mouth correctly. >> I remember.
» Yes, I know you do. [laughter] You still can't get my last name
correct. Um
but um part of me is is
now as far as giving raises and and things of that nature and having people
reach the next pay level. I I especially in the police department and excuse me,
but that's you know you you place your lives in danger every single day. And so
um I I believe that means something also. Uh and the um thing that I was
thinking about though going back to it is parody. How how how much how long
um let me reformalize this so I don't sound
like >> how long is a piece of string?
» Huh? >> How long is a piece of string?
» Yeah. How long is a piece of string? I have no clue, Charlie, what that means.
Uh but my my thing is is you know comparing ourselves to Montgomery County
or Houston and [clears throat] you know those types of districts and and
» right >> uh resources. Uh we've at some point
we've got to say okay we've got to adopt we have to go back to the way we do it
internally and trust in that. If we get out of alignment again, let's set those
markers so that we're aware that we're moving into that dangerous territory
again and make an adjustment if we can. I mean, financially,
um, we don't know what the future holds.
There's so many landmines out there with the state, uh, you know, and regulations
they're going to put on us as far as taxes. But um I I just I I guess it's
the word parody and having to do this big research thing going on and on. I
think if we've need to readjust our uh what we pay people that needs to be
identified and [clears throat] we get on a good schedule for that. I every year
coming back around and going so and so raised theirs up to this so we ought to
do that. I'm going okay do does everybody deserve you know that
bump up you just doing it across the board or is it just representative of
that and everybody has to still meet their qualifications get certified in
certain things because I know that each uh level is going to require a certain
amount of income certain amount of benefits and so I just at what point do
we pull it back in house Right. So, so the reason why it was brought again this
year is because the pay parody was this plan was over a four-year plan that they
they put out there. So, this was McGomery Countyy's plan uh that I have
right here if you want to see it. And then Harris County had theirs and and
Houston had theirs. So, I wanted to present what they had and that's what I
presented last year. I presented >> Yeah. what they showed and and how uh it
progresses over several years. Yeah. >> So, that's the reason why we brought it
back again because we don't know where these other agencies are going to be
because we haven't seen their budgets. I don't know where McGomery County is
going to be. These are our direct competitors. So, Houston, because we've
actually gathered some people from Houston, uh and McGomery County.
» Yeah. >> Um so th those are our direct
competitors. Houston, Harris County, McGomery County, and and Conro. And I
know that we don't have as many calls and everything, but it's about the level
of service and what the professionalism that we want to provide here in our
city. We're a unique city and we we provide a different level of service.
» Um, Shannidoa is we're known we're known for our professionalism. more known for
our ability to to apprehend uh criminals because of the level of service we
provide and the type of personnel that we hire and the way we conduct our
business, the way we train our guys and and the uh the officer readiness program
and everything. So, um, you know, there's there's certain
expectation with the Shannondo Police Department,
» but you know, we had to bring it over year over year just because,
» you know, that was part of the pay parody um that we had to show, hey,
look, we're we're bringing this back because this is what we know our
competitors are are bringing and um, >> yeah,
» this is what they said they're bringing. We don't know. We don't know if McGomery
County is going to come in and say, "Hey, we're not doing anything." We have
no idea. But I can just tell you that, you know, Harris County came in. Uh I
mean, um Houston came in and then we know that Conro did. Yeah.
» So, you know, we had to bring up something.
» Um you know, because we didn't know where anybody was going to be.
» Yeah. And I and I goodness I I appreciate one thing your your
philosophy approach uh to how you know the Shannidora Police Department should
not be reactive but should be proactive and uh I think to have individuals like
that you want them to be of the highest caliber uh in their uh responsibility.
So no and I'm just you know I'm just I guess it's mainly for me it's it's how
we're evaluating it. you know, I want to make sure that and I've even expressed
this to uh Sam about, you know, performance-based
uh and certification base and you know, we want the right people,
» right? And um the question is um but I I know and understand the necessity
um for um well and this goes to you're picking
your guys go through a probation cycle. So you're you're able to observe people.
You're able to watch them and you have an understanding expectation and the
thing that you say if you stay here's how we're going to take care of you and
your family. Correct. you know, and I appreciate that. And I'm and I'm not
[clears throat] >> uh saying trying to say anything. I just
people are, >> you know, you're just uh $2 worth.
You're worth $2 an hour more, >> whatever. That's that's not the thing
I'm trying to communicate. The thing I'm trying to get to is the level of our
responsibility of are we making our decisions based on uh our your
day-to-day operations with the individuals that are working in your
department or are we being influenced by okay Montgomery County bumped it up,
Houston bumped it up, you know. >> Well, unfort [clears throat]
fortunately that's just that's how the the game is played. Um, you
know, when it comes to law enforcement, you know, money talks.
» Yep. >> And and you have to to understand that
and know that um in law enforcement uh you have to be very careful when it
comes to performance-based uh pay. Yeah.
» Because that can get you in a lot of trouble in court.
» So, um that's something you really want to avoid. Um
» well I think what I'm saying in performance and I'm not saying in how
many tickets can you write >> right
» that's not so that would be yeah that >> that's a word jumbo right there.
» Yeah. Well well this you know law enforcement is a profession that you're
you paying for uh for the position that you're expected
to perform at at at the at the at the given level.
uh if you don't perform then you you know you have pips you can pip a person
improve your performance or or you're out of here
» because you're paying for the position >> okay
» you're paying for the position you're not paying for the
» uh because that person is not going to be you know it could be very slow for an
entire week. >> Yeah.
» And then that weekend it could just light up.
» Yeah. And how you perform during the week when it's slow doesn't correlate to
how you perform on the weekend when everything is, you know, is
» the adrenaline is going to be at a different level at certain times.
» Right. Right. Exactly. So you're paying you're actually paying for the position
that and and that person filling that position is expected.
» Yeah. >> To perform at a at the given level. And
and I guess that's part of what it you know you used the term PIP and I I don't
have no clue what that means but I'm sure it's a performance improvement.
Okay. >> And so you know my thing is is there are
measurements that that we're doing. We're not we're not just saying I'm
bumping you up period. You know, regardless of how you I felt you and
it's a lot of my deter a lot of my saying this or bringing this up is for
our citizens who are listening, you know, they're not sitting in here and
hearing about this and and there's a lot that
we're getting here in Shannondoa because we made that adjustment.
uh you know, but I don't want to see I I see these uh I don't want us to be
almost representing we're still being reactive, right?
» You know, I mean, if we have, you know, if we want if we need to change the
stages and how much they make, then let's do that. you know, let's make a
let's make a determination and uh make sure that we as a council
can can agree upon something that that strengthens that and you know
supports that uh being reactive and I know you say it I know it is the game
you know um but at some point in the game we're not going to be able to pay
those based on our city size And we are going to have to cut back and you know
you're going to have to be down an officer for us to get I which is not
what we want. We need to you know we want to increase it more because we
believe there's great things in store for Shandoa and so we want it to be you
know taken care of. But uh I just think that I'm I'm just hoping that we can get
to a place to where it's >> Yes. and and and so and then that's the
reason why I brought back the numbers. I did I didn't go back with their their
numbers. I came back with a lower number because I understood the impact it was
going to have to the city. >> Uh we we can't I don't have a crystal
ball so I can't tell what the budget's going to be or anything like that what
we're going to have available. >> So I I knew that going forward Lisa and
I have talked about this. adnauseium as far as understanding that that
this goal of of pay parody the end goal of
101,000 per officer for starting pay we the the ability for that to be
obtainable is it's very unlikely
» I I I don't see that happening but we have to stay competitive
Because if if if we're not, then you stand the chance of losing personnel.
» Yeah. >> And you don't want to be behind there.
You don't want to be reactive with it and wait till you're losing people and
then you you get in a crunch where like before we're down six officers, five
officers, and then we're having to raise the pay [snorts] in order to try to get
PE personnel. You you want to stay ahead of that game so you can constantly have
a steady flow of people. But at the same time, I definitely understand that
there there's also a budget crisis, right? So that's the reason why I came
in with the numbers I did and I and I lowered I cut it in half uh compared to
» to what it was supposed to be. >> Yeah. And what one of the points that I
wanted to make is that, you know, we wanted we I just want to get something
um some, you know, warning signs because we got out of alignment,
» you know, we just went out of alignment, you know, with pay and then all of a
sudden we have this, you know, type of uh large crevice that we had to,
you know, cross and build a bridge and and it it was a you know a tax increase
and and if it makes sense it makes sense >> right
» but um I I just want to make internally we need to have guidelines established
like hey you know this is this is the exact same
thing that happened that took us to where we were nonresponsive if we have
to do a parody evaluation every three years or whatever uh I mean is it but if
that realistically has to happen every year. Then,
you know, we set the reasons why, you know, not just,
you know, we here it is. We're early on setting our budget and we're going to
get ahead of people and then we read it wrong. And that's not a bad thing. It's
still a good thing. If we can if we can pay our officers more, that's a
tremendously good thing. I see. and and yeah, I would love to us to be in a
position to help them and to help all of our employees, but we have a
responsibility to our citizens and to the businesses around us, [snorts] you
know, um to be responsible with the money.
» You made a good point there. We have a responsibility to the citizens. I think
it's important to understand that we have a responsibility to the citizens
and that responsibility is to make sure that we have the absolute best that we
can deliver in the way of services. Absolutely.
» Always think about that. What's the best benefit for the resident? I want them to
have the best officers out there. >> I want them to have the best public
works people out there. >> We were really in a good position if I
recall until external forces changed that dynamic. Isn't that right? Start.
Did it start with the DPS or >> It started with DPS and then in order
people were losing officers to DPS uh because DPS starting pay was it's
it's still very high. >> Uh and then Harris County and uh Houston
got on board and then McGomery County and it just snowballed and it was
» it's been moving south. So Dallas area was the first to see these major hikes.
Um and then it started trickling down south.
» Um it hasn't got Yeah. So it's it's been slowly coming down. Pretty much any of
your larger metropolitan areas were hit all having the same parity issues. And
it was nationwide. It wasn't even just Texas. It's nationwide.
» The the the amount of it's all about the amount of officers
that are out there >> versus the amount of positions that are
available. >> Supply and demand.
» Yeah. >> Supply and demand. there's just not
enough supply. >> So, how do you increase that supply? You
know, the media's just devastating law enforcement. They're devastating law
enforcement. >> And so, just getting personnel, it's
it's difficult. >> Yeah. What happened in the nation
definitely wasn't uncontrollable, unforeseen. and and we're we're blessed
to be down here and not close to Dallas because that area is significantly
higher in pay significantly. >> So down here it it we're not as
[clears throat] high as Dallas area, but you know, we have to stay competitive,
you know, so we don't look get into that >> hole where we at.
» Yeah. So Mr.
and Sam and Lisa. I'd like to propose that Lisa take this
» amount that he he's asking for per officer, whatever, but apply it to
the the personnel expenses of the police department
before we adopt the budget and let us see it that way. I think it would be a
lot better than just talking about all these attributes and everything if it's
all right with >> Yeah.
» Did I make sense? >> 937,000 to your personnel budget.
» Bottom line, you want to see what the what the net is and what it how it
affects the tax rate >> at the end of the day.
» Right. >> That gives you a true comparison of
where we are now and what we could be. >> That's all. So
» I can tell you off the top of my head, you're going to have to go right below
the B to accomplish this. Did you say that it's an add-on, right? Of
» Yeah. 137,000. [snorts] So, you would have to go right below the
B at the 1918 to accomplish this p this pay scale.
» I've already worked it out. Yeah. >> No, no, [laughter] le if everything
stays the same. I'm just trying to put it in perspective.
» Yeah. So, it would it would it would you would have to go up to right below your
B. >> I understand, Chief. I know him well.
You know what I mean? I understand Joe. I know him equally as well. I know where
both [snorts] of them are coming from today and And but monetarily I don't you
know what I mean >> in in the in our picture that we're
talking about. >> Yeah.
» The number you're asking for and the number you're just saying it was what
stage in the parody plan. >> This would be introduced in this what he
had proposed on this scale. >> Okay.
» That's in the MMO. So like if I add it I'm just going to do it as a one lump
sum. So it would be one >> Chinese finance method there
» 137. 7127. So it would bring your budget deficit to
183 um
or you would need an additional 117,000. So you would have to raise your tax
rate. >> So right now 117 my
» it [clears throat] would that would be your bottom line that you would need to
make up to balance your budget. So, >> so the tax rate
» in my thing, we're got a we're to the good 91,4
91,400. >> I know you don't see this, but
» yeah. So the anticipated >> I put all the scenario
» the anticipated budget surplus as of the proposal date was 69,15
and then when we calculate all these changes to um the um insuranceances
contribution >> that's my whole point put it all in with
that. >> So it brings you down to so this
highlighted section right here is your difference then it's the 117988.
So you would have to raise taxes to um give me one moment. Look at that real
quick. >> Would the NR
» No, you would have to go >> above the
» Yeah, you would probably have to go right below the B.
» So what? Wait a minute. What would if we if we are going to revise our reserve
policy? >> This is a recurrent item.
» Ask this question. I want to you you might be very right about that but I'm
not sure. Okay. So you have to help me understand that. But uh Sam, isn't it
possible or is it possible that we could allocate out of the because we make the
change in that 90 days versus 180 days that we have freed up some resources
that we as a since we established policy here, financial, fiscal policy, can we
not allocate some of that? >> Sure. to the police department to cover
some of this expense and keep from raising the taxes.
» Well, as Lisa indicated, the the reserves are for one-time expenses to be
able to fund this and continue to fund. >> Is that because is that statuto?
» You would have a reoccurring. >> Is that statuto?
» We can definitely get some. >> It's a it's not a best practice. Um the
situation is because you're always going to be then behind. So,
» well, wait a minute. Wait. From what I if I understand what you're saying, I
don't know if [snorts] if we make an agree if we set
policy that the reserves are 90 or 120 the difference of that is not how is
that going to be applied to a one time moment if that's
» exactly that's my question too. >> So that is because it's so this is the
situation you can run into. I'm going to be realistic with you. Okay.
» If you keep using available cash and you're not bringing in additional
revenue, you're eventually going to zero out your
» That's right. But we need a a gap period here where we can cover these expenses,
not raise taxes, and get out there and do what we need to do to generate more
revenue for the city. And we're having some discussions about how we can do
that. I'm just I'm looking for a period, give us a give us a a year to work
through this. >> Yeah. And I agree with you that
» extra money sitting over here is not a long term if that money's been
» and that's why the best practice is always to net you know
» but if we can if we change it and say that it's 120 or or 90 days and whatever
that difference is that frees that up to be used how we set policy on it.
» Correct. >> Correct.
» Okay. So >> yeah,
» if we we wanted to use that best practice or not,
» um I come from a family of accountants. >> No, you're good. Sorry, my phone was
going. So the uh uh if we use that money to get us through,
if we find something that can continue to feed this and take care of it ongoing
for the future. Okay. But that buys us the time
» to get there without raising the taxes during this time.
» Is that what >> Yes.
» Yeah. The only fact is >> what if that doesn't come to fruition?
» Doesn't matter. Now you're behind >> there. So many what ifs in the world.
Yeah. >> What if you know the press would
actually tell the truth and police officers would
» I'm just giving you my opinion of best practice and everything else
» and that's what you're supposed to be doing and I appreciate that but I'm just
» Yeah. That's why you're sitting where you're
sitting. >> That's right. And we thank you for that.
» Yeah. And thanks. No. and and and because I
it's I think what it is and it's not it's not saying to uh we want to
we're making decisions uh that are it's a gamble
» that [snorts] we might find something >> and you're kind of committing to a
future possibility like you're making a decision now that could affect a future.
That's the only thing is you want to make sure.
» Yeah. Now we're making a decision not to raise taxes and use this money to cover
that >> until
» whatever, you know, can be put in place to support it ongoing past that time.
» It's it's it's like saying we know somebody's moving in, but they're not
going to be here for a couple of years, >> you know, but can we cover it between
now and then without raising taxes? >> I look at it as it's it's the cost of
doing business when you're investing. You're investing in your future right
now and you have to take a little risk >> and that doesn't impact the reserves.
It's it's >> well the the committed the 180
committed. Yeah. >> If
» Yeah. Yeah. It won't affect that because that goes totally restricted out. So
you're just hitting like the unassigned fund balance. That's so it's you're not
you're not messing with your restricted reserves. That's what I was trying to
Yeah. >> Exactly. Exactly.
We have an item on the budget in revenue and it's called fund balance and that's
the the place where we fill deficits, okay, from in the general fund and it
comes from available cash. It comes from the next item we're going to talk about
trash pickup, okay? It comes from cutting expenses. I mean, it can come
from a lot of different ways or raising taxes. Okay? What we don't want to do is
raise taxes. We don't want to. But then again, we want to keep the police
department >> 100%.
» That's the whole thing we're talking about.
» Yeah. >> So, if we just make it a common dollars
and cents, here's what it is. Then we can make a better decision and get all
of the emotions out of this conversation.
» Yeah. That's all I would say, you know,
because I want to do the the best that we can for everybody. Can we do it? Can
we not? At least we'll know. >> And can we support it long term,
» right? >> Yeah.
Now, if we did something with the trash, it's going to go right back to the
residents. I mean, it's
» Yeah. >> Period.
» Might as well raise the taxes. >> And we don't know what the state's going
to do to us. No, I'm just saying I just brought it up
because it's on the the next time. >> So, if I hear you right, what we want to
do is whatever that difference is between the 180 to 90day reserve. See
what that fallout is. Can that cover the gap?
» Yeah. >> That we're looking at without having to
raise taxes >> after the 3 million.
» Right. I'm saying if we don't bring it to 90, maybe 120 or so, whatever that
number is, how >> see what that is.
» Yeah. >> Protects us still, but
» we'll just have to evaluate that each year.
» And we'll have to evaluate that this time next year to see where that outfall
is. >> Okay.
» If that makes sense. All right. It's all I
» So just for my knowledge uh not so I can compose the budget document. We're going
with the year 2 parody as presented. >> Present whatever he's presented.
» Exactly. >> Yeah.
» I was on this. I was like >> we don't have to rework anything. We're
no good. >> You just got to put it
» put it in one lump sum. Say okay here it is.
» Okay. takes the emotion and everything out then we can figure out how to pay
for it. >> Okay.
» No, >> we will. Right.
» Yeah. >> Okay. So, I will add that to the
» It won't I'll add it to the different buckets it needs to hit, but I'll put it
as a separate breakout on the budget document as well so you can see it.
Yeah. >> If it affects other sides of the budget,
we want to know that, too. Okay. So, that's why I asked the way I asked.
It's going to be more work for you. Yes. But
» yeah. >> Okay.
» Sorry. Last year I had to break out all the insurance stuff. Remember that? That
was a lot [laughter] work. >> Do
» That's not nearly as >> I thought that was a good thing. I know
you wanted to bring it out of non department, but yeah.
» Okay. So, I will add that, but I'll add it as a separate section.
» Rich, what's the true cost of a police officer? You know,
» true cost of water. >> Exactly. Yeah.
» Yeah. Okay.
» And never >> It's true.
» Okay. So, I will bring that back. >> There's a price. There's a price and a
cost. >> Yeah.
» Cost account, same account. >> Do you want to call break for the
contract? >> Let's go over the the uh the trash real
quick pick up right quick.
» So, um Joseph, I think, is leading this one. Um but I'll let him start and then
I can give go over some of the cost differentials.
» Yeah. So staff uh at council's request collected information from our current
trash provider of public services uh to answer two questions. um you know
what would it cost to add one additional bulk collection day to our current
contract which was uh one bulk per month. So question one is what would it
cost to make two bulk per month? And the second question is how much would it
cost to make a bulk collection every day which is similar to our old contract
» and I'm still trying to find that here. Uh but
» oh it's the um the uh >> in the wrong tab. I know I saw it
somewhere in here. >> Blue
» blue tab. Thanks. Oh, there it is. Uh and so Republic Services got those
prices back which we've presented here uh to council.
» And the the first thing I want to point out is that the answer to
question one which is adding one additional bulk is there would be a $2
increase to our our current rate >> and that would not affect the contract
adversely. >> Correct. So, a contract when you bid out
competitively bid a contract and award it, if you're going to make changes and
amendments to that contract, you have to keep the price of it within 25% whether
you increase it or subtract it. So, adding $2 to this, it still keeps you
within that 25% cost of an increase to the contract, the overall contract. Now,
the answer to question two, a bulk collection every day of the week, that
exceeded that 25%. Uh, so we can't even really consider
that because it well, if council wanted to do that, it would require rebidding.
» There you go. So, now we got everything in place,
» right? So, we we'd need to rebid the entire uh contract and you could end up
with another service provider and we get to face what we had just last year of
everyone complaining about the new trash service. Uh just because it's it would
be a change. Uh it would be different trucks, different collection crews. Um
and you could end up with a higher price. Likely you would end up with a
higher price. [snorts] So, um you've got the information before you, uh the cost
of what what it would take to add one additional bulk collection day and every
additional or every day being a bulk collection day. Um happy to answer any
questions you have. >> Well, now you brought up [snorts] extra
cans, which I get that question all the time. And the fact that it's 750 per can
per month, it's not the can. They're it's the trash that you put in that can
that they're hauling to the dump, >> right? That's a lot of the cost is the
disposal fees. >> That is the cost.
» And uh so that is on not on the city, that's on the res.
» It is. And and it's >> totally I understand. And it's it's
worth noting as as you consider adding bulk days that and Lisa found this just
a little over 2% of our residents uh have an extra can which you know says
to me that everyone else probably has what they need for the collection. Uh,
so I'd just, you know, keep that in the back of your mind as as you're thinking
about this because it it does add quite a bit to the uh to the entire contract
to to do this increase. But again, that's that's council's prerogative uh
of of that service and and what level of service we want to provide with our
contractor. >> What was the percentage that
wanted a pickup additional pickups?
I I we haven't >> we don't have any date on that. It's
just I know that some council members have heard from some folks
» to see what it would cost, but >> I was one of them and I had 10
» 10 people called me. >> I suspect this is this is more an issue
of poor planning for me and my neighbors rather than an actual need for an
additional >> True Ernie. What's a and and I also
imagine that if we raise taxes to cover additional bulk pickup days, the hue and
cry would be far greater than we need to have more bulk trash days.
» I totally agree. >> So I really don't for me I personally
wouldn't support any additional heavy trash days because you guys have this
amazing we have this amazing yearly deal here anywhere where where
» if you got a year >> if you have if you have a bulk if you
have a I don't know a can of plutonium you can bring it here. No one's asking
any questions. Yeah. >> So, um I think I like you just made that
public. >> Look, you can buy uranium on Amazon.
» You weren't going to say anything, remember?
» But but the thing is >> the the only thing that I've heard that
that is that is curious to me is that when people have have said that, hey,
they missed my cans today. Now, that's unacceptable. If we're paying the guys
to take care of the business, they need to take care of their business. that
that's that's an administrative thing between you guys and our and our and our
vendors. Other than that, I like the new service. I love the new cans because
they're not dragging mine across the pavement to make holes where water will
get out. Uh I think it's for us it's been working well and we we're one of
the 2% that pays for the extra can. We use it. We're happy to pay it. Um but
again, I think the bulk trash day is just a matter of me and my neighbors
poorly planning. >> You know, it seems like things have
really settled down now. Yes. >> Don't you think?
» Not hearing [clears throat] any concerns anymore.
» Most of the complaints that me and Tammy get is just if it was missed.
» I think that's legitimate because >> maybe the one
» there's no >> one time a month for the bulk pickup
seems to be acceptable. >> And this is a result of their requests.
» And and we have spoken with Republic about mist trash. And here here's the
the fun thing about that is all their trucks have cameras. And so they just
produced a report just a little while ago for me which show it is about two
full pages of a tint type font of miss trash reports
» and only about 20% maybe um were because of the truck
missed it. The others the cans were not out there when the truck went by.
» I suspected that. >> I saw that movie. That's great that
that's >> Now, now there are times where there
there's some like Lily in particular, they've got some pretty narrow roads and
there's one in particular where people like to park on the turn. The truck
can't make it. They simply cannot fit down that alley and so they do miss, you
know, there's some areas like that where >> Yeah.
» And and we've tried to work with the HOAs, hey, please speak with your
residents on trash day at least. Don't park your vehicles there because you're
preventing trash collection. Um, but sometimes the guys just flat out don't
miss it. >> Not not too often, but
» I'm not strong enough to pick up a car. >> No. Okay.
» And a lot of the time you address trash day. What is available? What is
correct to put out there and what is not? There is no list.
» Yeah, I'm so on the website there's there's still a list.
» All right. >> Yeah. And it's similar to what
» I couldn't find it, but that's that's my problem.
» It'll they'll take bulky trash up to three yards or five yards. Actually, it
went up uh on Bulk Bay. It used to be three, so up to five yards, which is
basically a dumpster >> full. So, they'll take couches. Uh what
what they will not take is construction waste. So, if you've got a bunch of
» tile out there and fence posts and it looks like you're running a business,
» that's they're not going to take that. And the other because my department
feels a lot of those complaints that come in um is on bulk days because the
trucks do fill up quite quickly. So they have to leave and come back. So that's a
lot of their calls is hey they missed me but they're just on their way back. They
just had to empty the truck. >> Yeah. So, um, [clears throat] but yes,
Joseph's point, we've had several complaints and then when we reach out to
the Republic, they have the documentation to provide us that yes,
there was masonary materials that they will not pick up, so they won't empty
the trash can. >> So, Home Depot has these really strong
bags that you can put pretty much anything and just wire wire them shut.
» I'm just saying. >> Put it in that blue thing and away it
goes.
So, um, the only thing I said, you know, I made recommendation [snorts] on this,
uh, memo that if we did want to go with a second bulk day, um, to avoid
increasing the operational budget by 125,000, we would it would only be like
a $2 per month per bill increase. If we wanted to do a second bulk pickup, that
would just go to the residential. >> Um, that would have to be all across all
12,400, whatever. >> Yes. Yes. That applied to every
» residential account. We only service residential. We don't service
commercial. >> Yeah. So that would be um the alternate
if you wanted to add that second bulk day. Either you would have to increase
your revenue or you could put that charge onto the consumer.
» I think we should just move forward. >> I need to forget that idea. Bad idea.
» The consensus pretty much back to your >> We discussed it and that's
» Yeah. >> Okay. What is the consensus in your
paper? Just leave it alone. Leave it the same.
» All right, moving along. Okay, so the next these were existing, this is an
existing contract discussion. I do have a section for new contract proposals. Um
I will let u public works handle this first one relating to SDK.
» Anybody ready for a break? >> Oh yeah, sorry. All right, let's take
» time flies in your >> 10 minutes again.
Put everybody to sleep.
» I'm drinking my beer.
How do we change?
No, I'm not.
Word
I was going to say
I'll ask
He's
going
[laughter]
» my grandmother's from
Zoom call.
I >> was like I was like where are you from?
He literally sounds like my uncle. I was like oh
» Philadelphia. >> All right.
» I asked my dad
» my accent. >> It was
actually
funny. when I go back to New York.
» Yeah. >> Yeah. And then
she goes to look at me and she goes,
» "What happened?"
» Christmas, why is everyone yelling? I'm like, "We're not yelling. We're talking
loud and
by accident.
What?
» My brother
We have to work
people.
» I was
was like, "What?
Just go to I don't care.
You haven't seen >> those.
Oh my god.
Holy cow.
» My old
as soon as
I wanted
you know system
No, but I'm saying
They were supposed to
You look so
resume our discussion here. Lisa,
» so um the next item will be for new contract proposals. The first one's
going to be a traffic data analytics and um Joseph or will be able to handle that
one. >> I'll go ahead and take that one. Uh so
quick history on this. This stems from the conversations that council had
regarding concerns with speeding and other traffic concerns in the valley. A
traffic control uh traffic committee was formed for this. A survey as you know
was distributed among the residents and like any good survey we had um some data
collection questions and then the very last was open-ended to get a lot of
information. Well, from the results of of all that, the scope quickly expanded
from just the Shannondoa Valley to the city of Shannondoa and a lot of ideas,
concerns, and and opinions given through that survey.
And staff took that information and thought it would be useful to have a
little more data as we're considering these concerns as reported through the
survey and by city council. And so we reached out to just one company in
particular. There's several out there, but we reached out to Urban SDK and they
basically uh uh uh collect data from vehicle telemetrics, from satellite
imagery, from dot information, and they they combine all of this uh and
parse out really granular data. So you can look at not just one street but
sections of that street between intersecting streets and you can get uh
analytics about speed and what percentile of people traveling on that
road at any given point are speeding going the speed limit or going slowly.
And this is live information that they're capturing minuteby minute and
you get access to that data. So, it can really help in decision- making as far
as, hey, is this street really have a speeding problem or is it a speeding
perception because you can look at the actual data of vehicles traveling down
that road. Um, so in full transparency, there are you all you will have a few
little gaps. So, this is really going to be more
effective for vehicles that are built 2000 beyond. they have more of the
sophisticated uh information that they're able to collect. Vehicles prior
to that really don't have that data, but everybody's got a cell phone in your
pocket. I mean, I'm sure you've seen on Google Maps, you know, when there's a
slowdown, and that's because of data from telephones.
And so, that data is collected by this company. And
like I said, the granularity you get is is amazing. Um, I like to compare this
to the traditional way of collecting uh traffic data, which is you do a you do a
speed u study. We've done a few with bile engineering. They run anywhere from
5,000 to 10,000 per study. You select a few streets. You put out your tubes and
you get a snapshot of data across a few days maybe. and then you pull your tubes
and that's the amount of data you have for a $10,000 expense and it's helpful
but it ages quickly and and it's just a snapshot.
So, this company um and and I'll just tell you the price that they gave us uh
basically to you know the idea is let's set the ceiling for for what uh we'd be
willing to if council wanted to pursue this that we'd be willing to pay. It's
basically 10,000 a year in a two-year contract. So, $20,000 gets you two years
of access. Obviously, you can continue continue that if you see that there's
value there. Um, but I tell you that number again just to set the ceiling of
of the price that that you may see. Again, this is data that can help with
decision- making that the traffic committee's been working on. You know,
is there an area that's got speeding issues? Maybe at a stop sign, maybe you
look at speed humps or bumps or or some sort of solution. And then the cool
thing is you can implement that solution and then look at the data and see how it
changes. But [clears throat] what as I remember being in that meeting, wasn't
it more intuitive even it it would give you traffic flow, traffic congestion
uh points also? So any studies that we want to see as far as supporting data
information on um Grogan's Mill and Vision Park um all of
these different areas, time of day. Uh it was a
very impressive um you know data type of accessing um I
guess software that that they can do. >> Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up. But
yes, they do have vehicle loading accounts basically
» as well. and they have an AI component which just pulls the data specific to
what you're looking at >> and you can ask it questions and it's
not going to reach out to the internet and grab something that doesn't apply to
what you're looking for but it uses internal data
» and you can ask any questions to to really hone in quickly because it's a
massive amount of data. Yeah. >> And that can really help you hone in on
» Yeah. Because it even showed traffic traffic flow.
You know, you you pick it. it provides whatever you dial into it um you know
whatever the information you're looking for and yeah it was for the price uh I
was surprised at how much data uh usable data within a reasonable time you know
that you can get so so staff's questions are two one is this something that
interests city council and two if it does then we'd recommend setting uh
20,000 uh because you you'd need the the funding up front, but you're only going
to spend 10,000 per year up to 10,000 per year. But I'd say a funding of of
$20,000 for this type of >> Has the Has the police department looked
at it? And >> I was just going to ask
» what are they going to what do they think about it? [clears throat]
» What would you do with the data, Chief? that that would you assign an officer to
to patrol that more or that's my
» it's
good question though I know [clears throat]
so the data you know I I had I didn't see the actual program I just discussed
it with Joseph and everything um I would actually have to see it myself to
understand it and to understand the the whole uh concept [snorts] of it. Um I
know you know the signs that we're putting up now they collect data but I
don't know to the extent that they would collect with this. Um
it just really depends on what I want to do with it. But yes, if we find a
problem area, you know, we're just going to put people over there and and find
the time frames uh that they're doing it. um
» which is probably dry times and >> understand the point
» for for the most of it [clears throat] we know the general times there's going
to be the sporadic times that people speed through the residence
um throughout the day there are and you're going to have your outliers and
stuff like that um [clears throat] but for the most part
you know we we Um, we sit in the areas that have the most uh traffic that
and and complaints, but um >> this is a little different than a
complaint. This is actual >> Yes, it's actual data. But but right now
we're sitting there we're sitting at at locations uh that we do get a lot of
complaints and >> it's like fishing though. you know,
» it is it's it you're you're 100%. I I can tell you that uh I was going in
there, you know, that I was going in the residence. I'm sitting up myself
» asking you. Exactly. >> And so um what I found out that it was
taking me um roughly an hour to to get a stop. Uh, and that stop was about
the highest I was getting was, you know, 26 27 miles an hour. The average was 24
miles an hour. That was the average. >> Now, as long as you've been an officer,
you wouldn't you [clears throat] wouldn't think
» to to me that that is a waste of a resource
sitting at one location for a solid hour to get one traffic stop. Now we're down
to do we spend $10,000 for that or just to make us feel better. [snorts]
» Well, that's this is not the the traffic ones that the chief is putting in right
now that they purchased. Those are >> the signs are signs, right?
» Well, no, no, no. They're more than signs. They're they have a Doppler radar
that reads uh and counts uh that vehicle going to the to the stop to the stop
sign and away from the stop sign. It it also tells you uh the size of the
vehicle if if it's uh uh you know FedEx or or someone else. So it gives you some
more intuitive the product the software that Joseph's referring to that we
watched. It's actually it's not a real time right now. We can pull up the data
right now and see the car is going right now. It's not it does an averaging.
So, uh that's one thing about it, but their data
pulling it up uh has advantages to it. I guess my only question would be I liked
what I saw because I thought it was amazing technology. My only question
would be is is it usable data for making decisions on what we might want to do in
an area? Oh, we need to in the future why why don't we should we make this a
left turn lane here? you know, um, you know, we can are these type of data
reads enough data to justify that or would the
county say no, you have to go in and do these old studies, you know, where cars
drive over it and do directional things. I I don't know if it's usable for, you
know, making decisions on road changes. Do you know if this is the same
equipment that the county uses because I I noticed those counters that the county
put in on Mill. >> No. No. So this data that is collected
is collected from the cars themselves. >> Okay.
» And the cell phones of the people in those cars from satellite imagery. They
they aggregate all of this data >> just like the apps on.
» Yeah. They don't use signage. They don't use tubes. This comes straight from the
vehicles and the people in those vehicles.
» Now, I would I would propose that you put the money in the budget. It's not a
commitment to sign a contract or buy anything, but you have at least covered
the cost by putting it in the budget now and let them do some more
work, research, termination, sell us on the concepts if if the council's feeling
in that, you know, going in that direction.
And I'll just add one of the use cases um because chief wasn't he wasn't able
to make that presentation but we have talked about it um but one of the use
cases they presented during that is and I'll [clears throat] use David Memorial
as an example. It's speed limits 30 miles an hour and if you're looking at
your data and it shows that on average you know
people are going 45 miles an hour on that. Well, now the the police
department has an idea of, hey, let's post an officer over there because
people are speeding on it all the time and let's get them to slow down.
» Count Council, I think Lieutenant Pulling, she was in on that meeting.
If y'all want to ask her any questions regarding that, you want to
» She got to be in. >> Yeah,
we were on the mic. >> Come on. Come on over here. Take the
mic. >> Chief was busy at the time, so
just don't
» Okay. So, when y'all were asking as far as behalf of the police department, it
being beneficial for us. When I watched him explain that program,
it didn't show to me any new information that we don't already know where the
problem areas were. Now, yes, it does collect data as far as telling you the
speed, the number of vehicles, so the the traffic congestion. It'll kind of
narrow down like the traffic times of when the congestion's high. But the what
I got out of it was that it was for more future
I guess um information on for traffic control
devices >> planning.
» Yeah. That that's that's how I saw that program more. Now is it a cool program?
It is. But it for the police department as far as the speeding problems or the
stop sign problems and stuff like that and the times it's nothing different
than what we already know. So
» the reason I asked is that law enforcement it enforces claim areas.
» Okay. What does that mean? You don't >> say that again.
» It enforces in claim areas. This is their publication that they have
planning or elected officials political champions for the livability.
I don't see a lot of benefit in all that. I'm just thinking feature
advantage benefit here. and you're answering a lot of the
question. >> I just wanted the police point of view.
» Right. Right. >> Yeah. And that's why I asked if I could
speak on it since I was on that meeting because I understand for like maybe on a
public work side or like future planning if if more construction is coming up or
you know that type of thing that would be very beneficial. But as far as
enforcement wise it's not going to change. I don't see it changing or
helping us in any way. It may tell us it's it's kind of the same thing as
putting, you know, the old school line across the road and getting a traffic
count. I mean, that's just kind of how I saw it.
» I mean, >> it does display uh the actual speed.
» Yeah. >> Is that part of the deal?
» It it it displays the feed uh the speed, the traffic flow.
» Yeah. It's been kind of interesting. Even when even when it jams up
» on Holly Hill, I've sat up in that parking lot just to watch the reaction
of people when they hit that speed sign and you say those brakes the people hit
it is causing people to react. >> It will
» and slow them down. >> I I don't speed in the neighborhood but
I and I slam on brakes too like oh no. >> So, you know, from a just it has an
effect on people. >> Are they willing to let us run a pilot
just to just to see what they're what kind of information they're going to
provide? Yeah, they'd be happy to do a presentation to pilot. Let it run for 90
days for free. >> It's running already.
» Yeah, it's already running. Um, >> it's live data. They're collecting their
data collection points. There's I kind of freaked out how many data points are
in in a vehicle or on you that they're reading from and they're collecting it
like that. >> So, you're saying you're saying we
already have access to our neighborhood or our city?
» So, let me explain that. So they're not going to do a pilot. Um
» not to show you. >> Not not to show you. So anytime we met
with them, uh they're very careful to show the live data from either the past
week, past month, whatever data set they were looking at over there in Florida.
» Uh except once. >> Yes.
» Except once they they showed all of Shannondoa. Yeah.
» And quickly moved it away. And I can tell you this from when we saw it and so
they had everything color coded. Green being good, people are going the speed
limit. Yellow was getting bad. Red is a high-speed area. Pretty much every
street in Shannidoa was green. Um except the areas, as Lieutenant said, we
already Wellman Road between the stop sign and I45.
» Yes. >> Um so we saw that and they they quickly
moved away because the data is already there. You're just paying for access to
it. >> Yeah, I I get that the data is already
there. I'm asking, but you've already answered the question. Um me personally,
um coming from that world, I I wouldn't be willing to entertain their offer
unless they were willing to show us data on our on our city as in a pilot. I
understand from their position and understand what they think they're
protecting, but traffic patterns change throughout seasons. Um if they're
unwilling to share the product and software companies do this all the time
and data companies do this all the time, I personally um I'm not interested in
entertaining them. understood.
» Nor am I just based on >> sir
» and nor am I just based on that >> I don't see a need for this.
» It's nice. It's cool to have but I'd rather put my money into compensation
for our police officers. >> Same.
» Yep. >> That makes sense.
» I think it's a value needed when it's there
» or nitrous for the cop cars.
» Okay. Wonderful.
» That's right. >> So
is no sounds like I'm
» see I'm going home.
» Water work software. >> Okay. So I'll handle this one. Um but um
so a couple months ago public works RL Joseph and I sat on a um web a web call
with um water software. So basically what in a nutshell what they do is that
it's a data analytic software that takes your live um utility bill and read data.
It takes your pumpage data. It can take you can load in your CIP, your M, your
maintenance operation budgets and it constantly uses your trends of it. It
creates basically a continuous rate study. That's what it does. Um so and it
also can help aid in some water loss analysis as well because it takes
pumpage and it also takes your your consumption which is your billable uh uh
water. Um, so it just basically it does what I try to do through Excel, not into
that super detailed level and it helps constantly create, hey, based on what
we're seeing with your trends, your rate probably should be somewhere around here
to maintain a system. And you can also help, you could build a reserve limit
that you want in there to try to build up a reserve for your water sewer fund.
It just takes all those factors and calculates all that into one software
instead of having seven Excel sheets like I do kind of right now. Um the cost
was not a huge hit. It's about 10 grand a year. Um it does use some AI
components to also look at some other trends based on our pumpage. Um and I
don't want to get nitty-gritty because unless you live in the water sewer
billing life, it it you know it's kind of boring. So,
» so are they would they be using data we already possess and then analyzing it to
provide pro provide >> do they do you have a list of what it is
they're willing to they would be providing for the cost?
» Yes. So it is um sorry should have that page brought up. So
basically what it does oh it also can factor in your asset replacement. So you
can build in different metrics into like how you want to replace your assets and
your infrastructure and it can >> based on how the usage of the
» we could build those metrics out if we wanted to. Yes.
» When you get there, are you talking to page number?
» Um so please >> sorry it's kind of long.
» The subscription page is 56 >> for the pricing.
» Yes. So basically the features are rate design, long-term financial model, asset
features, which is kind of that um you can put in your infrastructure and kind
of um build out your metrics on that and then scenario exploration. So I can
build in hey what if we raised our rates to this level? How would that impact
overall based on our already sold pumpage? What
what form would the product be that you you receive as a result of the of the
subscription? >> It's an actual software. So, it's a live
you it's it's like a web- based software. So, it continuously moves and
works and it's pretty interactive. >> So, you have access to it.
» Yes. >> What are the sensor?
» Do you have access right now? >> Subscription?
» No. >> You subscribe to it?
» Waterworks. You know, I'll look them up. I'm I'm asking because if we already
possess the data, >> I I I not trying to to dissuade you from
looking at these folks. This can be done in a few days with the current tools at
that we possess. >> The problem is
» Excel spreadsheets but actual program. >> So the problem is is that if I leave
tomorrow, who's going to maintain that, right? Whereas when you go with a
software, sometimes you know that it's going to be maintained and someone can
come in after me and know what they're doing. um or they can get that training.
Um the problem with using a lot of self-service software is it's it's I
know it's a concern of Chris's and he's kind of communicated with us is that
who's going to maintain that, right? >> Yeah. That's that's always an issue. We
really try to avoid what I call the skunk works developing anything in
house. It's stop. It's sometimes in the short term it's a great solution, but
it's typically not sustainable. And as soon as that knowledge base leaves, it
usually falls to the wayside and then people who are using it say, "How do we
do this or do that?" And so then then you're back to square one.
» Yeah. Chris, tell me tell me the tell me the top five things that this software
would provide to you and then what would you do with that?
» Well, I'm not familiar with the software. This is this is a cloud-based
solution. >> Top five things.
So it would help me with budgeting exactly for revenue.
» Are are there specific things it would give you that would help you? I'm not
I'm not >> No, no. So basically what we do right
now is we do a 5-year rate study. Right. So we have to wait five years to see
okay where are we at? And that study is done by bio engineering but it's based
on historical data by the time we get that data to them. Whereas this kind of
keeps evolving it. It takes all our metrics continuously and recalculates
all these things for me. So the top five things that would help me do is maintain
our cash flow module I mean model because we can kind of establish where
we want our cash flow metrics to be and it can help me calculate that out. It
can also help us and Joseph to put all of our O andM we can build out a
forecast our on and we already have a forecast with our CIP and it can
conceptualize hey where do we need to be to fund that you know and we can add
inflationary rates onto that so that every year it kind of re or we can
re-upload it as we need um where I'm at two three [laughter]
» so so this is so use anal this is predictive analytics to to give you a
forewarning of potential >> yes
» assets set failure and shortfalls in revenue.
» Yes. And also it'll help us with some wear loss I think as well. Water loss
cons because it takes your pumpage and it takes your billable.
» So the current the current contract that we just we just approved that's that's
going into into effect that has digital or that has data that's already coming
to us to let us know like if someone thinks they're only using 150 gallons a
day but then they're they're actually pumping 300 somewhere. We already have
that. Right. >> Right. with the Badger, the Water Sense.
» Okay. Thank you. >> Yeah. So, the theory was is that because
I'm a oneman team, um, you know, I have a my accounting
» yourself short. You're a dozen man. >> Yeah. My my accounting Kristen's great,
but she does more of my day-to-day. The analytics is up to me, right? So, and as
everyone knows, I get pulled everywhere. So, this was going to be a tool to kind
of help me alleviate making some errors in Excel sheets because they're
inevitable. we know this um that's the other thing is it's a error thing for
you know with excels and um it helps with a continu continuity if I was to
leave or someone else was to take over they can see where we were at on
something that was kind of the idea there too
» okay see where we're at on something >> like where we are with our rates with
our infrastructure everything it's all built into one component instead of
several Excel sheets >> all right and if I go to Waterworth
software. I can probably see examples of of and these are tailored to our city,
right? Would it be? >> So, it is kind of a um Yes. So, it's a
no. >> Is it completely out of the box or do we
have our >> It's out of the box, but then we can
customize some things and add some add-ons if we wanted to later.
» Okay. >> But this was just to get to a base
scenario and look at it. Um yeah, so because I would like to get
Tammy trained on this, like it would not just be me. Is she going to upload the
data? And I'm hoping there's an API with be with badger beacon that can transport
it in. >> I'm not opposed to this. You said one
thing that got my got my interest to just it makes your job easier.
» Yeah. >> And you do a lot of work and I
appreciate that. So, I'm just curious. >> And water is a weird um [clears throat]
there's a lot of factors. >> It's all squishy and wet.
» We have kind of an Excel we have an Excel um document that my team and
Joseph's team fills out to try to capture water loss,
» right? and try to capture some of these other items whereas this could probably
just do it manually. >> So you have already identified in your
spreadsheet you've already identified the things that you need versus the
things that you want but to receive after but so if you input data
» so you you've already identified what you can input and what you want after.
» Yeah because it's basically just to keep up with a continuous rate study an idea
of what we need to do to make >> May I see that?
» Uh >> not right now. Not right now.
» Well there's several different ones. There's ones that you guys work on and
then put into it's a >> mail to me if you don't mind if it's Is
that okay? >> I can I'll see what I can send you. Um
some of it has accounts information. I have to clean up. Forget it. Forget it.
I don't >> Sorry.
» No, no, no, no. I don't want to get into that. Okay. Thank you very much.
» Yeah, I can give you some printouts with some redactions maybe. But um
» No, you've got enough on your plate. Thank you.
» And and you know, and I'll be honest with you, because we are a small city
and we're spread thin, it's probably not as sophisticated as it needs to be,
right? and this could help accomplish that as well. Mine's probably a little
bit more surface level than this because even when we were talking about um the
long-term financial model um I think with TAMA coming on and with even more
infrastructure that's my concern, right? We've been operating kind of like on the
same infrastructure count for a long time and now we got some heavy new
infrastructure and that's what I'm worried about.
» There's a potential to add more >> to that here in the near future. show
this. >> So, you could build out scenarios like
that, like, hey, if we were to add on how many more people, how would that
influence our rate structure or how you know what the average consumer bill
because you could kind of see what your average consumer bill is and everything
like that. >> I think you should do it.
» Just going to cut it short and say, >> I support that. Anything that's going to
help you make you do your job better and you don't have to hire an employee to do
» it's unlimited licenses, so team can be on it, my team can be on it. It's
unlimit licenses. So I think we should do it.
» Do they do any other thing as far as other measurements that we are doing or
monitoring? Can do can they expand or do we have anything else?
» We there was I scaled back the proposal because some of the stuff was a little
bit but we can always add it later. Um there was some things that what was it?
It was kind of a little weird. >> Well, not as far as features of its
ability. [clears throat] >> Is there as it stands right now? Do does
this company make anything else that we currently have that we're
» Oh, I I've never used them on >> that. I don't know.
» Yeah, we can ask them. We can always explore it.
» And it's a year-to-year contract. It's a two No, it's a year to year. So, if
» and this comes out of the uh enterprise. >> Yeah, it'll come out of utility billings
budget. I'll put it underneath the Department of 51.
» I'm all for it. Okay. >> Yeah, definitely.
[clears throat] >> It's It's 98.50 50 a year. So, but it's
only it's a year year, so it's even cheaper.
» All right. >> Okay. Now, on to the fun stuff. Capital
projects. >> Capital projects.
» So, MDD did approve two projects that were on the list. It was additional
funding for some roadway projects um because there's some that might need
additional funding. So, they just earmarked 500,000 for that. And the
second was to approve the design to figure out the pool amenity and some
other features at the pool because that pool is agent and we need to look at
some of the things over there. So that was about 75,000.
» Yeah, there's a lot of factors going on over there.
» So they approved those two projects. Um the projects that we have for the
general fund. Um, sorry.
I'm not used to this mouse, so it's freaking me out. Okay. Uh, yeah.
So, the projects we have to talk about for um general fund are going to be the
Grogan Mills pathways design only for 1275.
Um, city hall public works building security infrastructure refresh with
technology. That project can be funded through three avenues. um the three
funds and then for other general fund projects it's the caliber public safety
cloud data conversion Motorola command central cloud migration and citybot
communication platform citybot communication platform can also be
shared among funds so um I don't know we'll just go in that order I guess
grows pathway first [snorts] so
» yeah so the for the grow pathway it was just a uh um initial idea to add
pathways on Groven's Mill. I mean, we've we have several options in there whether
to add the pathways um coordinate with the county on uh expanding the road to
four lanes or just out of middle lane. So, we have options on on Groen's Mill.
Um I'm not and this is my job. I don't like the
project. I don't like the pathways. I think it's not u um necessary. Uh it's
$127,000 for this uh where we already have pathways on on the other side. Uh
but we can definitely use money to uh look into other options that we can do
on Groen's Mill. >> Explain a pathway
» like what? >> Right.
» It's on the east side of Millville. >> It's a walking trail basically.
» Oh. >> Yeah. The idea is
» I'm sitting here thinking of a street that you create
» on your side of the street. >> Go ahead. Sorry.
» So >> any Shannon go aside?
» Yeah. >> On the east side.
» That's not the project I thought we were talking about.
» And we've had conversations uh previously with Commissioner Riley on on
options that we can do on Groen's Mill. I know recently Sam and I believe uh
Mayor and Joseph had conversations with uh Commission
uh Commissioner Willer about about Groven's Mill as well. So um
I think we need to wait a little bit on on on this. I I think we can postpone
this because we still have to figure out uh if we're able to take control of of
Rogan's Mill and I think we should consider this only when and if we have
we get that >> accomplished.
» Correct. >> So we can we could table this.
» Y >> I think that would be a wise move.
And besides this is just this is just for the uh
» design >> the design
construction can cost upward of >> Yeah. I say up there 850.
» I would hate to spend over $100,000 for something that is not ever going to be
built. >> Yeah. I think we can tell
» construction 12750 construction on top of this.
» You're talking about almost a million dollar investment if you were to do it.
tonight. >> Give it to the police.
» Business, man. I need to be an engineer. >> Um, next is going to be city hall and
public works building security infrastructure refresh.
» Is that me? >> It's not anyone else. [laughter]
» Not me. >> Thank you, mayor and council. Um,
[clears throat] real quick, what we've been doing over the last couple of years
is shifting all of our um, building security, all of our surveillance
cameras to a cloud-based system. And that's worked out really well with our
wastewater treatment plant, our lift stations. And with that, we have
security monitoring. Obviously, since we don't have a um, police dispatch, we
don't have people that man can watch cameras 24/7. So, they do that for us.
and it's proved itself out especially at the wastewater treatment plant where
we've had breakins and the motions get alerted. It contacts law enforcement.
It's been very effective and the service the service has been excellent. Uh it's
the same system we have again all the w the all the water uh the treatment plant
lift stations and at our um park. Uh so this proposal is obviously um not
stating the obvious but looks like we're going to be in this building for a
while. So, a lot of our infrastructure is aging out and one of those things is
our current building security and all of our surveillance cameras which are about
15 years old. Um, [snorts] so this proposal is to replace all of the
building security systems, all the cameras on the access control in this
building with the same provider, the same vendor, Verata. If you haven't
heard that name, you can certainly look them up. Um, and they would basically
turnkey replace all of the equipment in this building. Um the total cost for
this building and all of the cameras at public works uh is 240,000. And my
recommendation would would be to break this out into um a 5-year um operational
cost. I think it's uh came out to 80 86,000 I believe per year. Around 80,000
on do you have that break out there? If it's 240 divide by five.
» Yeah, >> it 48.
» I had I had a doctor. >> Or was it by three?
» I lost it wherever it went. [clears throat]
» Uh like I like I said, this system is pretty old. The issue we're having now
is that components are failing. We can't get parts. We have to uh and we can't
get updates on the system that we have now. It's just it's obsolete. It's out
of date. So, we're being forced into really looking at replacing the
infrastructure. Um, and not only that, this kind of dubtales into the overall
strategy of a lot of these systems that are going to be moving out to the cloud,
which we have done and going to continue to do. So, this would also follow in
line with that strategy that we will not have to replace um like a video server
in storage, which right now is tremendously expensive. if if anybody's
read any articles about the data centers going in the tremendous cost of memory
and storage. Um and so we would eliminate that cost. So everything would
be a cloud cloud-based. So that eliminates buying um uh back-end
infrastructure uh that in the future. Uh so uh I think this is a very important
project. Uh and we're kind of doing some preparatory work when we do the HBAC
tear out. We're rewiring this building, bringing it up to Cat 6 cabling and
updating the infrastructure, getting rid of all the old CAT 3. So, we'll be
taking care of some of the foundational work during the HBAC project. So, when
they come in, we'll be ready to go. We'll be able to just change out
hardware and um and within a few months can be up and running on the new system.
Uh so, I'd like, you know, if I could get a consensus of what everybody feels
like uh uh consideration for uh doing this project. Let's do it.
» Have you broken out just how what the impact is on general fund, CVB and
» so typically how when we do um building projects like this, we do it based on a
square footage. So I can get those numbers. Um
» those might change if CVB does leave. >> Yeah,
» we might have to consider that. But um I can get those for you. I think it's
typically like general funds like usually 70%. It's based on square
footage. Well, I think we should do [snorts]
» I think it's important that we have a physical security of this building
to the >> I'm shocked that it's 15 years old.
» So am I. >> I can't believe that. Gosh,
» Chris, what's the uh cost the upfront cost versus the reoccurring maintenance?
» Uh great question. Uh based on the proposal, there's no upfront um cost. We
basically would do a contract uh with the provider. um for five years and that
covers the total cost of the project. So it's 478 by my calculation which would
be so 50,000 a year for five years would would cover the cost of the project. If
we do it that route we can fund the whole thing or do it in two phases split
it in half. >> So my question is what I'm getting at if
it's a one-time cost versus a reoccurring
cost. Well, you're just a moreitizing the project over
» I was just trying to >> if you did it all up front 20 well 2395
» is what um the total project is >> right so that would just be a onetime
cost one time >> onetime cost but there's no other
» there's no other reoccurring fees I apologize um the the only reoccurring
fees are the uh annual service with verata
» subscription >> the subscription cost and that would be
regular operational. It's um it's a few thousand a year. I'd have to I'd have to
you know, we're paying it now. Uh it's it's I think with each site it's less
than a thousand. I think for this site it probably a couple of thousand a year,
two to three, thousand a year on my estimation.
» Okay. Um but I have to go back and and verify that. But
» but basically it seems like because it's a high dollar amount, the Vicata is
basically going to let youortitize the contract cost so that you can so you can
still consider as a project over a fiveyear term. And then we can look at
we can look each way. >> Sure. All right.
» What is the scope of the work that's they're just saying that is it replacing
cables? All the cables. >> Uh no that we well the cabling is going
to be done during the HBAC tear out. We're going to we're going to rewire the
building because we're tearing all the ceiling out. So we're going to do that
regardless if we did this. This needs to be done. So uh I got with Joseph and
there's some extra dollars to take care of that. So when they come in, they'll
just be replacing endpoint equipment, all of the cameras, and then all of the
uh like when you put your badge on the HID readers, they're replacing all that
all that infrastructure will get replaced.
» So you already know their specs for the cabling that they use or they use what?
» It's all cat 6. All the data cabling. Yes.
Is it unreasonable to to wonder if there are other vendors to just it it seems
like a large amount to just go straight with I know we have a relationship with
them and I appreciate that. Um do do you have any idea what other vendors might
charge for the same >> Well the that's a good question. I guess
the issue here is that we've already chosen that path with verata and so if
we went with another vendor just for the sake of you know doing so we would be
buying another separate the separate system from what we have the idea is to
funnel all the security into one management system in the cloud so we've
already kind of chosen that strategy with verata they're very competitive the
cambers have a 10-year warranty on them um just based on what the projects we've
done um I don't believe there could be some cost savings if we did something
separate, but uh based on the cost of the equipment, I don't really think that
there's going to be um a disparity between one vendor and another uh as far
as the the in the end equipment goes. Uh the standard equip like we're using HID
readers which is pretty much industry standard. Um and then we currently have
access cameras, we be moving to Vicotta cameras.
» Did Vicott did they bid their own project to you? So you could so you have
a breakdown of what's going to happen, what it's going to cost, what it's going
to cover. >> Yes. So the vendor the vendor that would
do the work, the partner for varata is databox.
» Okay. >> Uh so that's that's the ver the local
partner for varata. And we use datab box for other for other uh have used them
for other projects, >> but they're the sole source for for
Verata. And so what I do is when IATA, they push
their quotes through databox [snorts] and databox supplies the quote to us.
You said we've already decided on the on the uh concept. Have we already paid for
I'm asking this because I don't know um if if this is going into the cloud. I
mean there there are tons of cloud servers and I'm I'm not I'm not trying
to get into your business. Please understand but uh for a for this feels
like a capital expenditure to me from the business side of things. I would
love to see two other quotes. >> Well understood. Uh now the verata
system obviously it's their own it's their own cloud. It's not like we can
take their data and push it somewhere else. It's a service.
» There are plenty of cloud providers and plenty of companies that have their own
cloud and they should they should be also is ISO ISO 2 T7001.
They just should be their minimum of their security ranges for this. This is
typical in a industry standard. I just >> Sure.
» I just it's a big purchase and we're we're we're we're pinching pennies
because we have a little bit of a >> and we're talking about talking about
altering our reserve policies because we have a little bit of a challenge with
our budget. I'm even if even if somebody else was 10% different, that's 24 grand
that could I don't know go somewhere. I'm not saying I'm not saying
[clears throat] we shouldn't use these guys. I would just love to see I don't
know some uh some other competent industry. Uh
I understand your point definitely, but it just just reiterating it's a sole
source product. If you're you're using Vicata, you're using their service.
You're using you can't use AWS. You're you're buying their cameras. That camera
footage goes to their security service, their cloud service. It's a whole
platform. So, we would go into the same portal that all the other cameras that
we have now. >> Well, if we continue using their portal
at three grand a year, if the if the greater project is $240,000, I'm not
particularly personally worried about 3,000 bucks. I'm saying there are other
security options. I think in a city like Houston there must be can
» well sure there there are other products >> when can I ask a question when we chose
Ricotta because we're currently using uh what what aspects of their service right
now >> at all of our other all the other
facilities that we have >> so we're currently using it when we what
was the process to choose Ricotta did we go through process
» through Vicata we did we looked at several different systems um at the time
and you know that was kind of a strategy that we adopted and as we bring in the
water bring the water plants online we're we're adding that the the idea
» so this is an add-on >> that was about a year
» my point that I'm getting at is that we did go through a process
» yes >> of choosing this this
» and this is an add-on to that >> and that this is an add
» sure and so we have >> you were aware that we they went through
» so are we contractually obligated to them for
» oh no no we but but the so the point is it it's not it's not advantageous to the
city to buy a separate system. If we were going to do that, then
» you know, we would stick we would stay with we we're on Genitech, so we have
our own server locally here. We have our own video storage locally here. And we
we pay for licensing for Genitech software, which is a security and video
service. That's what runs the cameras and runs all the access control. We're
we need to replace all that. And so since we the infrastructure is outdated,
we want to get away. It's it's it's time to go ahead and move city hall to the
same system that we're using everywhere else. If council chooses not to do that,
then we buy a whole another system and do something separate. But that
» it sounds like we're buying a whole another system already.
» We are, but we're we're basically adding we're adding cameras to the existing
service that we already have. So, we're adding cameras at a4 million dollars to
the existing service of three grand a year to servers that already exist to a
company that we're comfortable with and already using.
» Well, not comfortable. We've already committed to it.
» If we're if we're contractually committed, then this is a different
sounds to me like we're you're really what you're doing is upgrading.
That's >> Yes. But I want to be clear, we're not
contractually committed, right? >> We we we chose a vendor, a specific
vendor, a specific service, just like if you have Ring cameras at your house. I
get it. Yeah. >> And so we chose Verata as a cloud
security service because they had 10ear warranties on their cameras. They
provided 24-hour monitoring for our critical infrastructure, which we would
have to have paid for separately if we went with a some type of provider that
would provide monitoring services. So we we've bought that service and we put it
at all of our other sites. And so we want to take this building and add to
that service as opposed to buying a whole different system. So then if we
did that, we can do that, but then we would have vericotta running at all
these sites and we would have whatever we buy here
» separately. But we're going to upgrade all those sites, not just here. We
already have verata everywhere. We're we're taking this building and we're
» up to adding it to the Vcata. We're going to put Vcata cameras in this
building. >> Now I understand. So the other sites
already have the latest and greatest cameras?
» Yes, sir. >> And we're not upgrading any of those?
» No, sir. >> Different conversation. Thank you very
much. >> Correct.
» Right. Right. And that that was the history I was going to bring up is we
Chris and I looked at this a year and a half ago, two years ago when we made the
switch for Cata and the the impetus was at one of our water plants,
somebody broke in and stole a fuse from the generator
» twice. Twice, which doesn't sound like a big deal, but that fuse cost 45,000.
We we could have paid for and and I and I I did pitch this prior to that and
there was some opinions, you know, and understandably that some people just
didn't think cameras were effective, you know, and and and that's [clears throat]
fine. At the very least, it's an investigative tool. Even if you see the
person running away, it's [snorts] at least it gives you a lead. It's it's
better than nothing. >> I believe cameras are effective. I
believe they're important. I believe >> [clears throat]
» $240,000 is a lot of money. Even if we had two separate services and it saved
us 50 grand, I would be interested. I I mostly would just like to hear and this
is the reason a lot of companies get very complacent and very comfortable
working with municipalities and and they're very comfortable and happy to
just do whatever with their prices. I'm not saying this these guys are. I'm not.
Please understand. >> No, I understand.
» Um but just to keep them honest, >> not that they're being dishonest. Uh,
hell, I would just love to see another quote and and let them know, hey, hey,
you guys, another company quoted against you. They were only 10 grand under.
We're not saying you need to change your prices, but we're letting you know for
your own edification that in the future, you know, you guys are not as
competitive as you may have thought you were. That's it. Understanding. Other
than that, I support everything about this. I just would like for them to know
if they're overshooting us a little bit and taking advantage of a good
relationship. I'm not saying they are >> the only thing I could do which I kind
this because we have this relationship with other vendors kind of like HP
» sure >> you know I if I buy HP servers and I've
ran into this problem I have different vendors so I approached [snorts] the
vendor and I try to say I'll go to datab box and I said give me a quote for three
new servers then I go over to SHI and I ask give me a quote for three new
servers >> well what happens is
» they actually talk to HP >> okay
» and HP generates the spec and they already know that I get a quote from
datavox and it's really a weird deal because then what happens is it turns
into this conflict and they all come back with the exact same price
» describing sounds a little unethical not on your part
» well it it's just it's the way some of these vendors work and I totally
understand because >> I get it and because of the way these
vendors work I just would like to see a quote
» the only thing I could do is go to another vendor that deals in Vicata and
ask them to requote it >> but I would get the exact same quote
» it's okay to it's okay to even consider a completely different system the fact
is you could have homes right next to each other with completely different
security systems and still get alerts from either one. I'm not saying that's
what we want to do. I'm going to let this go, but but but I
would just love to see another quote because it feels like a lot and maybe
it's not. >> Well, uh so this building between this
building and and city hall, we have 50 50 cameras. Okay.
» Which is a lot. And then um building control um it's 20 20 something.
» So they're eight grand a piece or something like that or three grand a
piece. depend there's between 6 and 8,000 a piece the cameras but they have
a 10-year warranty which is unprecedented so if anything happens to
them they replace them >> where okay where are they made who's the
where are they manufactured besides >> makes their own cameras China where are
they located I could have to dig into some details for you on that
» okay I'm good I just I I'm going to I'll support this I just
I love seeing various quotes it makes me a little nervous and scared when we have
such a good relationship with a vendor that we don't even bother getting quotes
» no I and I totally understand your point If it makes you feel any better, people
that know me know it. I beat up I I hate to use that word beat up, but I I I'm
pretty aggressive with our vendors. >> Five bucks, I'll kneecap on them. I'm
just >> No, I am because knows right now they're
they're choking everybody out with cost of of hardware. Um just putting in
perspective, we pushed we I don't want to belabor the this topic, but so our
storage, our regular data storage was up for replacement this year.
Um and a a system that should have cost
around 80,000 >> okay
» was 200 and just quarter of a million dollars
» from whom? >> From HP.
» Okay. Yeah, I believe that. >> And just because of the cost of of of
technology, a computer we a desktop PC we were paying $800 for a couple years
ago, >> okay,
» is $2,300 today. That's the reality of where we're at. And that's with anything
it related. >> So even even if a quote supported and
showed how amazing the prices were, wouldn't wouldn't you feel better? Hey
man, I'm save 50 grand going with these guys.
» Absolutely. >> So So would it cost anything to get
another quote? >> Well, there again, we're talking about
have to put an RFP for a completely different system.
It's not advant I don't see it as advantageous to us to look at a
different system. The idea is to bring everything together in one cloud, one
platform. If if council chooses to do that, then we can go a whole another
route. But ultimately for my preference is
add to the system that we're >> I am 100% sure council's got your back.
Me personally, I just love to see quotes. But
» understood. >> We are where we are.
» Okay.
» So consensus. >> I think [laughter] we should I think we
should take the staff's recommendation, put this in the budget.
» We've been through a process. We we have a policy on how to appropriate funds. We
also have a policy on how to spend them. >> We went through that process, did we
not? >> Yes.
» Okay. And I think that uh I I see no reason in asking a staff member to go
through another drill or exercise that's not going to really prove anything.
So, put it in the budget. That's my recommendation. So, do we want to look
at a five-year schedule or do you want to just do a
straight up 240? >> That's not I mean that's totally up the
council. So, they gave me a three a threeyear and a fiveyear or we purchase
it however they want to do it. They they've just given us
» proposed breaking out over >> amateurization options. So, it's a less
impact to our cash, >> you know, uh for our budget. We we can
break it up. >> We have consensus on going with this.
Now we have to decide on >> what the amount of money to pull.
» You're basically just scheduling the project over five years.
» Yes. >> So you go.
» So it's 61,000 a year. Is that >> Well, currently it's for a 5year. I
think it's it's just under 50 a year. 40 >> 4400. Yeah.
» But because it's a project cost, we can do it out of cash.
» Well, I would say if they're offering it, keep your cash and get some interest
out of it. >> Yes.
» So we can look at that. >> Yeah. That's why I was really pushing to
» break it out benefit from the earnings that we
» Yes. we keep back >> and then also it can help us because if
CBB does move out we haven't committed them to the full account and we can
everything's falling apart. >> Yeah.
» And then we can like you know Okay. So we'll do fiveyear. Okay. Yes.
» But I want you to know I I appreciate everything you're saying and and I like
the points that you bring and I want you to know that that I'm in this I'm with
you on that. >> No hard feelings man. I I come from a
from a business world and and I would be scared to death to give it to my boss
with a a cost like that without other quotes.
» Understood. >> Just just as plain as that.
» Okay. Do you want to take a break at all or not?
» Move on. >> But but I'm sure they're good. You guys
are very confident what you do. I'm sure they're good. I was just curious.
» Okay. So, of course, I lost my mouse again in here. Okay. Next project. No,
it's it it's because there's like three screens on the back side.
» Okay. So, the next one would be the caliber public safety cloud data
conversion. >> Um, sorry, Chris, you're up again.
» Yeah, >> you want me to lead on quicker?
» I I can I can I can lead off with it, but I'm going to have you help me with
some of this stuff. >> Technology is a little fun. Yeah,
technology is not my strong suit, but I I can definitely
talk about uh the process and everything as far as uh the decision to try to go
to another uh RMS system. The RMS system is a report management system. So, this
is where we take our reports and and put them inside the system. Um so
um currently we use Tyler Technologies.
Tyler Technologies is a it was designed for a large agency that
has a [snorts] dispatch center along um with their patrol. And so they
have to enter in a dis a dispatch call uh and then select that and put it into
uh where patrol can access it. We don't have a dispatch center. So these guys
are having to create a dispatch call like they're dispatcher and then enter
it into uh another area where the they can select it. That's redundancy. And
there's tons of redundancy in in this system that we're currently doing, which
wastes time. And time when it comes to law enforcement is crucial. The more
time that we have, the more time we can be out there on
patrol. So this system has wasted so much time. These guys have complained
and complained and complained about the system. I said I have to me I have uh no
skin in the game when it comes to to these systems. We built a committee and
the committee consists of admin. It uh Lieutenant Poland, it
consisted of patrolman and it consisted of the the C uh investigations and they
went through several systems. They looked at several of them and this is
the one they came out with. It is a substantially cheaper company. Uh but it
has everything that they need. I told them that the only thing that I expected
is I can generate some [clears throat] reports that I can show to council and
that's said that's that's all that that I care about. That's the only skin in
the game I have in it. But if it can can uh reduce the amount of time that they
uh spend on doing reports and cut out the redundancy, I'm all for it.
So, I'll let Chris kind of give some more examples about it and he can speak
more to the technical side of it. >> Well, from a dollar standpoint, we're
already paying for software. Really, the only thing that this is an increase of
is the initial migration cost. So, the requesting funded amount is a onetime
cost for migrating all the existing data from Tyler to Caliber training and go
live support. Uh the annual subscription cost or estimated 20,000 a year. uh
[clears throat] the recurring annual cost already budgeted for the title RMS
system which is around 25,000. So caliber is a net savings. So really all
we're doing is the upfront cost for migration. Uh which was uh what did I
say? 20,000 >> 40
» no 40,000 I'm sorry 40,400 for the migration cost. And then we're and then
our annual cost is less than what we're paying for Tyler now. And we've been on
that system for 5 years. We bought that system that also included all of our
ticket riders and handhelds. That was a 5-year contract. That contract was up uh
last year, I think. >> So, we're free to move away from from
that system. We're not bound any longer to uh to Tyler.
» Will Caliber be able to handle all the ancillary services like the ticket?
» We will still maintain uh Tyler owns Brazil
which is most agencies use Brazers. We will still maintain bra the brazas
park for the ticketing system. So the brazes handheld they upload their
tickets to the county. >> Correct.
» And that's how they're handled. So we will still maintain those.
» Uh but it has nothing >> uh no sir. Uh we will have to pay uh a
small amount to Tyler for the cloud service for uh the Brazes technologies.
Uh but other than that we will not be using their software at all.
» Comments. >> I think it's good. Good. Yeah. It's like
I agree. >> I'm all for it.
» Yes. >> I think anything that will facilitate
the process and save you time. >> Well, their productivity as well. You
can't put it down. >> Yeah. You know,
» I've been in the field with those guys and I see them cussing about it. I mean,
they hate >> they they absolutely hate this system.
» Don't ask Mark, you know. >> Yeah. You know,
» no, they hated this system that we're currently on. It was
» a good saying I like is you never truly know somebody well enough till you live
with them for a little while. >> And if anybody has experience with
software, sometimes that's the case. Sometimes you don't know that. You don't
know the questions to ask until you see it. Oh, I didn't I didn't realize that
was a problem because even when you demo something, that's why I don't like
demoing software. It's just never it's never a true representation what you're
getting. You have to really really dig into it. But it is web based too. So
there again, one less server we have. So we're moving everything out to the
cloud. So less less overhead for us here.
» Any additional questions or comments
consensus? >> Yes. Okay.
» City bond. >> Uh well, we got one more PD.
Well, city bike >> the Motorola command.
» Oh, okay. Here we go. >> Sorry, Chris. Go ahead.
» No, it's all right. So, all of our incar video, this is all
of the car, the body cams and the end car videos. Motorola, which used to be
Watch Guard is watch Motorola bought WatchGuard several years ago. Uh, so
that's the systems we have in our cars now. It's good technology. Um, one of
one of the better ones and then probably the two main ones out there, Motorola
and Axon. Um, one of the one of the benefits of Motorola was they allowed
you to keep your own onremise um, software server and then uh, we have a
large storage array disc 60 terabytes. Seems like a lot but it's it's not I
guess compared to some other agencies where we store all that video. Um, what
Roll is basically telling us now they're going to end support for the onremise
portion of the software uh, in a year or so. So basically what
they're doing is they're like these other vendors, they're forcing you to
make a decision. So they're going to basically force you into their cloud. So
either today or tomorrow, uh you're going to have to subscribe to their
proprietary service for because that's where all your video goes. Um in in
essence, we're going to be uh as we're going to be turn it into a $50,000 a
year operational cost. That's what it will cost us annually now and forever
and obviously that's going to increase yearbyear but uh that's going to be the
cost of uh using these cloud services for uploading the video. So we will
convert our existing hardware to then upload to Motorola's cloud. Uh and
[snorts] that will get rid of replacement costs for local storage
which by using the analogy I left I gave you a little earlier if I had to replace
that storage today it'd be about six5 to $600,000 to replace the current storage
in today's prices which is absurd. And I'm sure nobody here would want to pony
up to replace that. So uh this is a good move for us to go ahead and do this. So
we get rid of our local infrastructure cost. The server and the storage goes
away. All the video goes into the cloud and then police can access the video
their evidence software in the cloud. Uh when we move to this system
uh see the data migration upfront costs for the first year are included in the
requested funding amount. Continued an annual subscription will be 43,675
and this is on a five-year contract. Total contract is 235,724
and I can guarantee you with a 100% that that will increase after 5 years based
on you know even if it's the standard 6 to 7%. We can anticipate that and then
of course it's going to it's going to vary based on how big our agency gets to
the amount of data that we need. It'll it'll just grow. So this is definitely
one of those uh cost of doing business unfortunately.
So I'm definitely interested to hear some feedback on on that.
» So chief um the data on these this video um is it sometimes evidence?
» It submitted as evidence. >> Yes, it is. And so anytime we have open
records, which is constant, you have three officers on scene. Well,
you think, well, that's just three cameras. It's not.
» It's six cameras. So, you have to pull six cameras of information, store that
information. >> Yeah. So the the amount of storage that
you have to have to to maintain all this stuff it's I I don't see
future wise all these data centers and everything I I just don't see that
that's a sustainable thing >> because the amount of information all
these cameras information that we have >> concerns are all about chain of custody
you know for control of evidence or anything. No sir, the these are all
with with the cloud and everything. This this is all what they're going to.
» Okay. >> We have no control over that. Axon's
going to eventually and going to Axon >> they're their cameras are
» it's incredible cost. >> The cost is just astronomical going to
Axon. So, we're trying to go with the cheaper option with Motorola because we
we had Watch Guard, which Watchguard, of course, he said they were bought out by
Motorola, but Axon >> do well.
» Yeah, they they have, you know, Motorola's Motorola, you know, they make
a good product. However, you know, when you kind try to do customer service, it
it's a pain. But it is what it is. >> To Summer's point, and this is one thing
I don't like. I don't like this at all because you're you're you're held
hostage >> by the vendor
» and you know you take take a city of Houston I don't know what they're using
but can you imagine the pabytes which large amounts of data that they have to
store you can't move to another vendor you you simply can't you basically have
to say I need to move all this data to oh we want to move to you know from
watchguard or motorola to Axon well if you're a city of Houston size. I I can't
even fathom that. I just don't even think it's it's practical. And a lot of
this video, some of the video, depending on what it is, can be kept for as long
as 75 years. 75 years. >> Wow.
» And you have to maintain that video and you have to migrate it and move it. So
this this is new since incar video and all that. A lot of people don't know
about this and think about this all the backend that's involved in that. So
[clears throat] even if we kept the video here, every let's just say every
six years, every seven years when we have to replace the storage, we have to
migrate that data to the new system and then keep migrating that data for years
and years and years for however long that retention is. And so yeah, I just I
just I know it's a lot, but I just want to put it in perspective so everybody
understands what what's actually happening on the back in the background.
So once you move to the cloud, you're basically signing. I mean, you're you're
signed up. >> Yeah. And it's unfortunate, but Axon and
Motorola, they're monopolizing the market. They're purchasing everything
law enforcement. [clears throat] Those two companies are in competition and
they're purchasing everything law enforcement related.
» Who's uh who's doing the migration of our current data?
» Uh or you talking about the video? >> Yeah.
» Well, uh Motorola will do I mean we we're on Motorola system that's we have
Motorola now >> we do have an on-remise server and on
premise storage they will migrate the existing video to the cloud service
» and then our on-remise storage and server will go away
» okay and that's what that's kind of the question I was going to ask go away is
sort of ambiguous who's going to destroy those that data that data storage medium
so it can't be exploited >> we'll we'll uh we'll wipe it we'll do a
a multi- uh multi- tier white destroy that that array that that disc will be
will be probably cleaned up and I'll do that myself. It's our array but
» then what happens with it >> uh destroy the disc out of it. Usually I
pull them out and physically drill through them.
» Perfect. Okay, that's that's where it's headed. Thank you.
» Sounds like we don't have a choice. I never like to use that term,
» but you you you can stay with them for a little while longer and then ultimately
you're going to end up buying something else that's going to do the same thing.
That's why we avoided Axon. >> Axon was really expensive. Um I think we
got a bid for at our time it was less vehicles too and I think it was
7 800,000. >> It was ridiculous.
» And then they're on a fiveyear contract. So, basically what they do is that they
say, "Okay, we're going to outfit all your cars with new systems, and we're
going to give you body cams, and you're going to sign a 5-year contract, and
we'll give you new body cams after two and a half years because they just wear
out. They just, you know, wear and tear. And then after 5 years, we're going to
replace all your video systems." But basically, what you're doing is it when
you're getting new cars, you're getting new systems. So, you're on a perpetual
contract. I mean, and they don't offer an on-remise solution. you sign up,
you're you're on their service and you're you're pretty much bound to them
at that point. >> So, and for your information, Taser is
that's Axon. >> Axon Yeah.
» owns Taser. >> So, they I mean those two companies are
competing for everything.
» All right.
Consensus on that. Yeah.
» Yeah. >> Well, Jim, that that sounds like
» that sounds so grim when you say it that way.
» Yeah, >> it is. [clears throat]
» It is to be honest with you. >> All right.
» Yeah. Uh, city bot. >> All right. One more. [laughter]
Um, real quick, I know some of us have a lovehate relationship with our um, uh,
autoattendant in our phone system. Charlie, you could.
» Yeah, very much so. >> See, going to get rid of that and start
hiring some people to answer the phones. Is that
» Well, hey, that's not my department, Jim. Uh, but uh [laughter]
» answering, Jim. You know,
» I So, I understand is that, you know, some people have the opinion that they
want a live person to answer the phone all the time.
» It's a department of first impressions. >> AB: Absolutely. U the reality of it is
besides Jackie, there really only two people that can answer the phone um when
general calls come in. And so and and unfortunately those people wear multiple
hats. So they're not always at their desk. So if you call and you have a
utility billing question, who who's in charge of utility billing? Well, main is
Tammy and then Lisa, the phone will roll to Lisa, but Tammy wears multiple hats,
so she's not always at her desk to answer the phone. So, they're going to
get a voicemail and some people don't like that.
» I don't I'm not trying to tell you what the solution is to that. It's just
really it's a people problem. Uh public works questions will get directed to
Leslie. And so, if neither of them at their at their desk to answer the
phones, they're going to roll a voicemail. And then some people just
don't like leaving a voicemail. They can choose to go back to the auto attendant,
which rings back the front desk, but you're back to square one again. if Jen
is well not Jen anymore, but if uh Jen was on the phone, then you're going to
get the voicemail there or uh she'll answer and then try to answer your
question. So, I said all this to say we did look the mayor and I and uh Sam, we
and Joseph, I think you were in that meeting. We looked at a um people know
how I feel about AI. Uh but we did look at a uh an AI assistant, a chatbot. And
what this would do would provide a conversational piece for our customers.
So when you call in, instead of getting an autoended, it would answer and the
the AI bot will have access to all the information on the city's website. It's
not open to the internet. So if you have a question that uh you would like the AI
bot to answer, it will uh parse all the information, all the data on our website
and can provide answers to the customers.
um in in addition to direct the phone call to the appropriate department. But
what we're trying to avoid is a dead end for the phone call. We want the we want
the bot to be more interactive with our customers. This is a good way to, you
know, if council wanted to hire another person and put another position for
somebody just to answer the phone, that's certainly an option. Uh this is
an inexpensive option and it gives our customers access to um frequently asked
questions. Um, it's it's it's more open-ended. Plus, it provides a a chat
bot on our website that people can also use and provide them information uh for
uh for any any questions they might have. Uh
I I mayor gave a little feedback because he sat in on that demo and and what he
thought of it. Um the the city bot.
» Yeah, I think that's better than the alternative.
I certainly >> can you make it sound like John Wayne?
» I could I was going to say >> I was going to say make it sound like
John Escato >> and you can do that. They actually had
some cities where the voice was the mayor's voice.
» I think it' be fantastic and we have plenty of audio from all the council
meetings so you could you could use to >> Yeah. I can't remember what city that
was, but it was the mayor's voice. >> It was it was
» but it's a very conversational tone. I my my personal opinion is I I was
impressed, you know, cuz I' i've dealt with some chat bots with different
companies and some are pretty horrible. This one is a very conversational
» actually quite good. They're loose. They're fluent. They're actually quite
good. They were >> I mean, you could tell you were talking
to a bot. There's some cadence issues, a little longer pause maybe than normal,
but it was, you know, overall, >> I mean, if you weren't paying attention,
you probably think you were talking to a person.
» One of the things they did is that they were they played they played us back a
recording of a radio station. and I don't remember where it was and the
radio station basically set out to trip the bot up. So, they took turns calling
in and and just carried on this long Q&A and it took them quite a while but it
was very impressive. I was I was actually impressed about how it
responded and it wasn't it wasn't so robotic. it was it was pretty robust and
it was able to answer and then they tried to get it to admit that it was an
AI um and which it ultimately did but it took them it took him a lot of questions
he said to finally get that deep and and that they didn't have to badger it to
send them to a live person. Um, but just keep in mind it doesn't solve the people
problem because at the end of the day, if they want to get to the person, that
problem doesn't go away, >> right?
» This just helps alleviate the frustrations and get people to the
information a lot easier that they that they want to get get at.
» Yeah. >> Yeah. And even if they get to the point
where they can leave an answer, leave a message with [clears throat] the person
they want to get to instead of going back to the menu and listening to the
whole menu. >> Absolutely right. It can eliminate the
dreaded phone tree. >> Huh?
» Yeah, >> it can eliminate the phone tree is
basically what it can do. >> Well, I I work with call centers and
call past >> 30 years. So,
» uh the request the funding amount is 15,000. So, the implementation and
one-year support fees are included. Uh and the continued annual support is
estimated to be 10,500 a year. Uh the way they do the charging, it's based on
minutes of usage. So, we had to estimate. We do not know. they come up
with an estimate on what they think a city of our size might use and that's
the number that that they came up with. Um and there there's a rate I don't have
it on here but in the in the um uh proposal they have a rate based on
minutes 0 whatever cents. Uh so however many however many minutes they came up
with that's that's what we come up with as far as annual annual fee. I like it
because I hate >> it.
[laughter]
I'm getting used to AI and >> it's a lot better than the uh menu
bouncing back and forth. You know, it's very
» All right. Consensus.
» Yes. >> Yeah. I don't like it, but
» Yeah. Yeah,
» I like to have a personal up there answering at all times people and
answering the damn phone. >> You know, there's people talking to
people because and we're a small enough city we ought to be person to person. I
just >> Well, that's
I expected more of the of the gym response. Not because I expected that
from Jim, but I just kind of expected >> No, we're going to have we're going to
have two classes of people who are calling in. those who literally
genuinely want information and those who want someone to console them and
understand that they're hurting and and emotionally damaged from some city
policy. The AI is not going to emotionally connect and those people are
not going to be happy with it. However, if you genuinely want information,
you'll get it. The other ones will be routed to a voicemail and they can leave
their uh passionate impassioned [snorts] plea
for whatever in the voicemail to someone who is there. literally right
to a desk and if that person happened to be there then they would get the
voicemail but >> we're not cutting out that that
» I think a majority of the calls are probably utility villain related and
» we have a strict policy we call back within an hour that's our rule that's me
and Tammy's rule >> also
» um and I'm her overflow so if she's at lunch I usually try to stay at my desk
so I can get those overflow calls >> and last but not least uh this it's not
on here but uh there was a request made and I apologize to the mayor. He did ask
me this quite some time ago about replacing these monitors that on
[snorts] the dice that block everybody's view. So, I've created this high-tech
example of uh uh the monitor size that we would replace those with.
» And it's considerably smaller. In fact, the top of this sits just about this
high above the the curved uh finished edge of the das there. Uh these are it's
not a lot. I hate to use a capital project, but
» [snorts] >> uh it's 35 less than $3,600 to replace
all 10 of these with a 15inch monitor that would look just like this, about
this size. And so >> made of cardboard, too.
» Made of cardboard. >> So, and this is not on the list of
projects cuz it was just emailed to us yesterday. So,
» yes, I I just got them to get back. >> We can approve I can add it to the
project. >> So, how quickly can you order those?
» If I order them, they're saying two to three weeks. They're just cut out. So,
it's really >> So, you can get it done before the new
fiscal year. >> Well, I can have these made before I
leave for vacation like a week. I [laughter] can just put them up there.
» Like, how come this screen won't change? >> Yeah. I keep swiping.
» Yeah. So, uh yeah. 35. >> This is a council members.
» Are we going to be able to zoom in on them or
» the public not touch? >> No. Oh, this unfortunately these are
only >> Yeah. The public wanted to see
» they're only seeing what we display on the computer. So, they're not
interactive. Well, I keep using mine. I get it. I know.
» No, no, but we can do that. We'll add that to our strategic plan when we
upgrade the video system in here to uh you know,
» high-tech two-way. >> You push the button, the video camera
turns on you while you push the button. >> Yeah, just just get them now.
» But I I really did I really did this because I wanted to show off my
cardboard cutout. >> You did a great job. Very nice. Very
nice. Good job. >> A little uneven, but
» All right, let's let's move on. You got what you need?
» Thank you. >> Okay.
» Okay. >> Water plant number two, pump covers.
» Yes, these are all water sewer related projects. So, these come primarily out
well wholly other sewer funds. >> All right, let's have some fun. Uh the
these are the uh shade structures on the water plant number two. This will be
covering um protecting the booster pump equipment that we have there which
includes valves and all the piping. Um ultimately you will love to have uh
building protecting this equipment like we have on water plan 4 and the new
Tamina water plant but I mean as you can see there I mean affects the coating
affects the uh actual performance of the pump. So these shade structure will at
least some be some protect protecting um those all that equipment in there. Um,
so I do recommend this project. Uh, it's going to give us give our palms uh
better life and uh longer life.
» I agree. Good. >> That well number two has served us well
over >> the last 50 years. It's
» been a powerhouse. Y
» it's only got a 16inch line, but it worked.
All right.
The redundant sewer line at I45. This is a project that was we tried to
do it with ARPA money. Uh we did were able to fund the design. So the whole
design project is already completed by BL engineering. Um this is also a
project I there uh very well recommend. Uh we only have one line going from the
um from this side of the freeway to the other side. Only one one gravity line.
That's a lot of risk. Uh if that line collapses,
man, that would be the worst day of my life. Uh so it would require a lot of
bypass and I can't even imagine how much that would be if we had to do that. So
we cannot let that happen. If it happens, we can at least have this
redundant line. So we need this redundant line. We have two gravity
lines going from one side of the free to the other and make it to our wastewater
treatment plant. Um like I said design is already funded. It be a matter of uh
getting the construction done. We are thinking it's going to be bling and
during anticipate $425,000 for the project um construction. You
know, we were going to use ARPA funds to do.
» We were going to be using ARA funds, but we put that money into the uh Tamina
Road uh utilities. Uh the the the funding is for construction estimates
for 425, but with all contingencies, we're funding requesting uh half a
million. So, 500 total >> and we did have some of the because of
the timing of this project, that was a factor of why we didn't use our funds.
The other thing is we did use some of those funds to allocate towards the
wastewater treatment improvement as well.
» I'm for it 100%. We need to get it done. >> We need to have it.
» Very important. >> It's been on the books for four years.
» Yes. >> And again, this is coming out of
» water. >> Water sewer.
» Okay. Yeah.
» All right. >> Well, we got the uh the effluent line,
not the redundant line under the freeway. They want to replace off the
whole effluent line, right?
» Yes. We got to do the >> the master plan.
» The master plan, right? >> Master update for the wastewater
treatment plant. >> Yeah, I'll go ahead and get started with
that one. Um so this is the master plan. Um so we right now um on our wastewater
treatment plant we're processing about 8 just short of 800,000
um ga gallons a day on a wastewater treatment plan we permitted for 1.3
million um per TCQ rules for the state whenever you reach a 75% when you
trigger 75% for the previous three months you need to be in design already
but we're very getting very close to that triggering that so I do recommend
funding the uh uh the master plan study with BL uh it's only right now we're
asking for $50,000 uh that will put us ahead of the game
before we also need before we actually need to start designing this project.
This is for the ultimate phase on our wastewater treatment plan. Uh we need to
move because we have Tamina coming and that's just stamina. If for some reason
we have development there uh that will increase our flows. So I do recommend
funding the U master plan with volunteering right now.
I can answer any questions on that. one of those.
» Yeah, I'm going to rework the revenues, but
» I mean they all work they go at different times. So cash flow,
» right? >> I'll be able to
» and I'll just add that with Tamina coming online, Woodloft and then the
apartments at Sam Moon, right? We're going to be at that 75%.
» Yeah, >> it's right around the corner.
» Eventually you're going to get schools right time.
» Yeah. If for some reason something develops develops with Methodist uh even
more so
that's the design >> design only for the eff line on the
wastewater treatment plant. Um recently we made some repairs to the ad line just
right next to the water right next to the plant but this is a full replacement
of this fl that goes all the way from the wastewater treatment plant goes
north into Carter Sloo um the line is is not a not a gravity line it looks
like a force man it's fully pressurized it should not be doing that so it's
almost a full capacity um right It's an 18inch line that we have there.
Uh we're increasing it to a 24 inch line.
» It's going to be side by side for >> I'm sorry.
» You're going to put them side by side and keep them both or just going to
increase it and >> Right. We will we putting side to side
and then abandon the other one. >> We We'll look at alternate routes to see
if maybe we can even shorten that run. >> Yes.
» To save on costs. >> Exactly. We we'll do a study with BL
engineering that >> that's what we're looking at
» that it might even be like putting um a wet well just specifically for this uh
that will reduce the um the um the linear feed of line that we we
install. >> So serious
» you it's going to be gravity >> the plan is to do gravity. Yes.
» Just a question. Yeah. >> Okay.
» Yes.
» I testing and repair. >> This is also another project that's been
on our books for many years. Um but I mean year to year we having more and
more problems with INI. Um INI means inflow and infiltration. Uh basically
it's all the infiltration that you have on your sewage system on manholes on on
lines that are cracked that is making it all the way to the our wastewater
treatment plant. And just so you know when we have a big rain event like like
I mentioned before we have about 800,000 gallons a day on our wastewater
treatment plant. When we have a big rain event we're treating over a million. Um
so that just more more time for our operators more chemicals that we need to
invest more electricity uh damage to our system our pumps and everything. So
having this pro problem is not only going to be detecting where the problem
is but also we we have some uh money in there to make the major repairs that are
needed and specifically is only going to be attacking our old section of the city
which is on the uh southeast uh section of the city. doing this for the whole
city will cost a lot of money, but I do know from uh talking to Steve and our
other operators, that's our big problem area. So, the southeast. So, uh
basically south uh so southeast and right next to um uh Memorial Herman. So,
um any questions I can answer on this? >> We're all Yes. about four years ago at
the TML conference, I talked with the people on this.
» Yes. that had sensors that listened to the water going through the lines
» and effluent >> sewer lines and water lines. Okay. Is
that what we're talking about? >> That is exactly what we're talking
about. >> Blindly good. It's just
» Yeah. >> Yes, sir. So, yeah.
» It fell on deaf ears when I brought it up four years ago. Okay. It's all about
money. I understand. >> Yeah. Some of these mantels we're
looking at are brick manholes. That's how old they are. Oh yeah. So,
well that was great because you could tell and you could actually find where
the effluent where the it is coming from.
» Exactly. >> And then when you have a 16inch water
line on Vision Park blow up. >> You don't have to wait for SCADA to to
tell you, hey, the water tank's empty. You know what I mean? The hydro tank.
» Yeah, that's definitely happened what, twice?
Oh, many times. Yeah. >> So, yeah, I'm all for it. I I saw this
in action. It's just phenomenal. >> Mhm.
» This is one of those projects that will potentially be
» Oh, save us so much money. It's >> there's a payback period.
» For sure. >> Sorry, forgot my mic was up.
» Yes, I'm 44. >> And I we did get a quote from a
contractor, but I would like to get additional quotes to see where the
market is. I different companies do this. Uh I like competition. So I like
to have uh different contenders bidding on this.
» Do you want to set ceiling? >> We Yeah.
RP. >> Yeah. It exceeds the 100,000 by law.
» Okay. So that's pretty much it with project. We did table item number two.
We do need to take a record vote. It's it's an action item. So,
you know, the action item basically truth and taxation laws requires us to
have a formal vote saying if we want to go with the no new no new revenue rate
or do we want to open up the possibility to go above it. If we vote to open up
the possibility to go above the NNR, we then have to have a public hearing
before the adoption of the tax rate. If we don't, you don't have to have a
public hearing. you can just approve the tax rate because you're not
» council to decide how far up they want to go and
» that we can always go down without
» we can always do yeah the NNR so if you want to make a motion or someone wants
to make a motion to approve a just I just need a proposal right as well for
the tax office to have >> but here let me bring my thing back up
» what's the one below it here Um
1918 >> 1918 would be the max you can go without
a um uh with >> okay 1911.
» That's my motion. >> What was your motion
» to adopt it to the 19? >> Well, not adopt to propose
» to propose. We're not adopting anything tonight.
» Well, that's fine. [laughter] Words >> to below the 19.4, right?
to below the 194. Yes. >> Okay. So, we have we have a motion to
» to propose to consider to propose >> the 1911 rate.
» The 19 >> 11 rate.
» I'll second that. >> Yeah.
» By proted
by Councilman Sol.
Yes, sir. Okay. Can we put those two together? [laughter]
» Took me forever. >> It's going to be that way.
» It's going to be that way. I don't >> No, it's going to be that way.
[laughter] >> I want to change my name to Hank
Williams. >> So, just discussion.
» So, we're going to try to come below this, but we want to have the option to
go here if we have to. >> Correct.
» Yes. >> But we will decide later.
» Exactly what I'm saying. Just there's our option again.
» It's a good plan. Yes. So, [clears throat] just for anyone that's
listening at home, this is not the adoption of the rate. This is not saying
that this is what we're going to adopt. This is just the tax office requires me
to propose a rate and this is what that is. So, all the notices unfortunately
will have that 1911 factor, but it doesn't necessarily mean that's what
you're going with. It's just truth and taxation. Unfortunately, those are the
rules and we have to follow them. the official vote for the uh the the change
in the tax rate would be >> so we required to do that.
» So I have to get tax rate approved by the 15th of September to get onto the
tax roles with Tammy Ray or I have to collect taxes and that's going to be no.
So we have to have it approved by that point. If you guys are comfortable from
me making the changes to this budget and having the adoption for the next the
council meeting on the 26th, I can do that.
» You can put it on the 26 and he can pull it.
» Well, we just have to know for public notice here. You have so many public
hear in public notices. Courtney and me every year it's the bane of our
existence. Um because of all the rules. So if it doesn't pass, but if we put it
on for the agenda on the 26th, but then we end up not making an action item, I'd
have to approve it within 7 days of that meeting. So we'd have to call a special
meeting in by September 2nd, I believe. >> So those are the rules.
» Okay. >> So if we could stick to it and I can
propose everything at the 26th and we feel comfortable, I will do that.
» If John and Sam want to do that, that's their choice. You understand?
» And I will I will send out everything updated. I am out of town next week, but
I will work tomorrow on trying to get everything updated and sent out to
everyone. >> And you'll also have on the agenda
the issue with our reserve. >> Yeah, that'll be on there as well. Yeah.
» If if we adopt a change in policy recommend,
» you'll factor that in. >> Yes. So, what
» in the discussion >> into the discussion? Yeah.
» Yes. Yes. >> To approve or or not
» or to >> Well, what I can do on the proposed for
the budget >> and possible action
» for the proposed budget. What we can do is I can have it in the agenda form and
then I can actually put it on the actual document and if we would just make a
motion if we wanted to go that way or not at that point and I remove it for
the final publish adopted budget.
» Okay. All right. Any additional comments?
All in favor say I. I. >> I.
» Opposed. Motion carries.
All right. [clears throat] Having reached the end of the agenda, no other
items to discuss, it is now 9:54 [clears throat]
and we are going to adjourn this session, the special session of the
budget workshop for Shannidor city council.
What time? >> 9:54.
Okay.