[0:00] for the budget workshop. Today is August
the 5th, 2026. It's 5:00 p.m.
[0:07] I'm going to call the role. Please
answer.
[0:10] Councilman Summer
>> here.
[0:13] » Councilman Summerland
>> here.
[0:15] » Councilman Pard
>> here.
[0:19] Prom Brad
>> here.
[0:21] » Councilman Robinson
>> here.
[0:24] » Everyone is here. So, we do have a
quorum. We're going to stand up and say
[0:28] the pledge of allegiance to the United
States and to the flag of Texas.
[0:35] I aliance to the flag of the United
States of America and to the republic
[0:41] for which it stands. One nation under
God, indivisible, with liberty and
[0:47] justice for all.
[0:51] flag. I aliance to the Texas one state
under God one and indivisible.
[1:00] » If you want to remain standing, we're
going to have a short invocation by
[1:03] Councilman Robinson. Just
>> bow your heads, please, and join me in.
[1:08] Father, thank you so much for giving us
the privilege of serving our city. I
[1:13] pray, Father, that as we discuss the
budget this evening, make
[1:18] decisions and craft policies that we
will always keep in mind that we're
[1:23] doing this for the people and for their
best interests.
[1:27] Remind us, Father, that we are in this
position not to be served, but to serve.
[1:35] Father, bless our staff,
our city, our residents, and protect us
[1:43] all. We ask this in Jesus name. Amen.
>> Amen.
[1:52] » All right, we're going to move on to
item number five, citizens forum.
[1:57] Citizens are invited to speak for three
minutes on matters related to city
[2:02] government that relate to agenda or
non-aggenda items. Speakers are asked to
[2:07] approach the podium and give their name
and address before sharing their
[2:10] comments. I understand that no one has
signed up.
[2:15] Is that correct?
[2:18] » So, we're going to move on to [snorts]
item number six. At this time, I'm going
[2:22] to turn it over to our financial
director.
[2:26] and council. Um I sent out um kind of a
memo last week about the tax rate. So
[2:32] this item is going to discuss the 2026
property tax rate um calculations. Um so
[2:38] I do have it on the screen as well. So
this year's um our current tax rate for
[2:42] the 25 um tax year was 1821 per 100
valuation.
[2:48] This year's tax worksheet.
>> Yeah, pull that up, Lisa, please.
[2:53] I'm used to it being so far away on my
dis. Um the no new revenue rate for this
[2:59] year is 1849. So there is increase from
last year's tax rate. Um but it will
[3:05] yield the same revenue to the city as
last year. The voter approval rate is
[3:10] 1919 per 100. Um and our certified
taxable value is about 1.7 uh billion
[3:17] right now. So um also in this chart
you'll see I kind of put where our
[3:22] current rate is so you can see how the
share breakout would be between the INS
[3:26] which is our debt service requirement
and our general fund share which is our
[3:30] maintenance and operation the M share.
Um I did it for the current rate the
[3:34] infu revenue rate and the um voter
approval rate.
[3:40] So, um, in order to bring in the same or
very close of the same revenue as last
[3:46] year, you would have to go with the 1849
rate. Um,
[3:52] and that is and then on the second page
here,
[3:58] » I broke it out. So, um, this year our
median, so truth and taxation laws
[4:03] require the tax assessor to assign a
median house rate to kind of use as a
[4:08] taxpayer impact u value. Um, so this
year the medium median homestead taxable
[4:15] value is about $437,000
per home. Obviously, that's not every
[4:20] home. That's just medium. Um, there's
houses will be less, there's clearly
[4:23] houses that are more. Um, so if we went
with the no new revenue rate of 1849,
[4:31] um, it would be
less than it's a 0.28 cent increase from
[4:39] 1821. Um, it's about 1.5% increase and
it would increase that median um, home
[4:46] valuation tax bill about $36 or 4.7%.
Um, if you went with the V, it would be
[4:54] a .0098 cent increase or 5.4%.
Um, and it would be an additional on
[5:02] average $66 or an 8.9% increase to the
medium uh median homestead value uh tax
[5:10] bill.
Because of if you go to the 1919, it
[5:14] would trigger an election. you the
highest you could technically go is 1
[5:18] 1918 [clears throat]
without having a tax election which I
[5:22] would not recommend wanting to have
because it can fail. And also um there's
[5:28] a lot of timing that goes into
consideration on that as well.
[5:32] So
and this just kind of shows you that
[5:36] same information that I typed up up
there.
[5:40] Is there any questions about the tax
rate or calculations with it? Mr. Mayor
[5:46] and Lisa, I think we we should proceed
at this point at the no new revenue
[5:50] rate, but I'd also like to postpone
number two to the end of the meeting.
[5:56] » We are. Yeah.
>> Yeah.
[5:57] » All right.
>> Just about to to the item.
[6:05] [clears throat]
>> So, the differential in revenue that
[6:07] you're kind of looking at is um
should have done that. Apologies.
[6:15] I got too many mouses up here.
>> From the current rate to the 1919, it's
[6:20] only 167,000.
>> Okay.
[6:22] » 176.
>> Thank you, Charlie. [laughter]
[6:25] » So, yeah, because of last year, we had a
lot of unused increment, which is
[6:29] basically truth and taxation laws allow
you if you persistently go below your
[6:33] NNR or at the NNR and you forgo that
increase that you could have done, you
[6:38] can bank that differential. And last
year it did help us because of the
[6:43] police pay parody larger bump we had to
make. So we did kind of exhaust a lot of
[6:48] that unused increment because it every
it's based on the last three years. So
[6:52] like if you don't use all of it, it
falls off and then it just keeps
[6:55] bringing that bottom dollar um bottom
amount up and up. So that's why the
[7:01] difference between the N&R and the V is
a lot smaller this year than it was last
[7:05] year.
So we're good for the INS
[7:09] » for the interest and syncing fund
>> for every for all of it. Yeah. For the
[7:13] rate
[7:20] and basically in the budget document, I
just put the same revenue as last year
[7:25] into our M um portion, the general fund.
I did rework it with the 1849 number.
[7:31] It's about $4,000 short than what we
brought in last year because it does
[7:34] it's all rounding and you know there's
going to be some discrepancies. So um so
[7:39] if you go with the eight the
sorry there's a lot of numbers here 1849
[7:45] you would bring in about 1.4 for
sheets
[7:50] » 1,400 into the general fund whereas it's
about 4,000 less than what I had from
[7:55] last year.
[8:19] And the question might come up of why is
the NNR higher than our tax rate this
[8:23] year, right? Um because ideally you
should have new improvement that kind of
[8:28] you know offsets that. However, um the
8th 9th legislation had House Bill
[8:34] number nine which basically exempted any
personal business property that did not
[8:40] exceed 125,000.
It exempted it from the tax rules. So,
[8:44] it did remove some value from us and
then we didn't have enough new
[8:47] improvement value cuz everything is
based on as January 1. So, um like with
[8:54] the wood loss, it's based on how
regressed they are as January 1. So
[8:57] obviously their tax bill is not going to
be the same thing that like next year
[9:00] their full value should show up. So it's
just basically wherever something is as
[9:06] so
>> so you're saying that HP9 I just want
[9:10] some more clarification on that. Is that
like their the business had to be valued
[9:15] above that before they were taxed or
they're able to take that off?
[9:20] » No. So if they So like I I use car
dealerships because that's usually who
[9:24] we see the most on some of these tax
rules. We don't really have any, but for
[9:28] you know, so each vehicle they keep on
their lot, they have to pay a property
[9:32] tax on because it's a business type
property. So if any of those cars don't
[9:36] exceed $125,000
in valuation, they can exempt it off of
[9:40] the [snorts] role, if that makes sense.
Yeah.
[9:45] Or and another thing like um a lot of
companies that lease um like uh Sunb
[9:50] Belt would be a good one. They have to
pay property tax on their equipment
[9:52] because they lease and they it's a
business property. So yeah.
[9:57] » Yeah. So they would get to exempt
whatever. Yeah.
[10:02] » That's their inventory.
>> Yeah.
[10:05] » So I I couldn't get clarification if it
was an aggregate or not. And like and
[10:09] I'll be honest, uh when I talked to Miss
McCrae, this has been the hardest year
[10:13] for her with the tax worksheets because
of all the changes that happened in the
[10:16] 80th 9th and then we know there's going
to be a lot coming up in the 90th that
[10:20] starts in January. Um, so she said this
was a very because legislation will put
[10:27] a law out, but it's a lot of gray. So,
everyone's trying to figure out with the
[10:32] direction from the comproller, how does
this calculate out, you know, the
[10:35] comproller is the one that issues out
the notices of calculations and
[10:38] everything. So, um, there it was a
little tricky this year with the new
[10:44] laws. So,
>> I think it's going to get trickier going
[10:46] forward.
>> Oh, it will.
[10:47] » I think it is.
>> Yeah. I think that was one of my biggest
[10:50] concerns when I got on council was the
one thing that we just don't pay
[10:55] attention to is what happens at the
state level and how that affects us.
[10:59] » And here's the very first
>> tickling of this coming in.
[11:02] » Last legislation, the mayor and myself
and Kathy had worked on several letters
[11:07] in um protest of the expenditure cap and
revenue cap. Um those were the biggest
[11:12] bills that were really going to be
detrimental.
[11:14] » Um and we worked we we sent those to Mr.
Toe's office. Um, Craden off it. We sent
[11:21] them everywhere
I think at one point just to in protest
[11:24] of it and I actually wrote did out
calculations to show how it would hurt
[11:29] our city particularly.
>> Yeah.
[11:31] » And all the indications so far are that
they will tackle this again.
[11:37] » Yeah. In the coming election they are
they are going to
[11:40] » and there's got to be an some type of an
amendment [clears throat] for cities her
[11:44] size you know.
>> Yeah.
[11:48] invite it to a TML summit legislation um
session at the end of the month um me
[11:52] and 140 other delegates from the state
and they really loaded it with financial
[11:56] professionals this time because the
biggest priority is property tax and
[12:00] expenditure caps so um TML um invited me
out to work on some policy proposals um
[12:08] so I think it out of our area it's me
and Jersey villages finance director are
[12:12] going um so we have representation for
our area so we'll try to push especially
[12:18] for um I think the Houston metro area is
a very unique area. Um we you know we
[12:24] say this all the time, we're a small
city, but we're not like you're on the
[12:30] one of the biggest freeways of the the
country outside of the fourth largest
[12:34] city in the country. You're you're
basically in Houston's back door. So,
[12:40] um, they don't take that in
consideration when they look at
[12:44] population growth because a lot of the
expenditure caps were based on CPI and
[12:49] population growth, which we're we're
fairly built out. So, our population
[12:54] growth isn't going to be so that puts us
at a negative. They don't take in
[12:59] consideration your daily population.
They just consider your homestead
[13:04] population. But with the Portoino, with
all these other shopping centers, I
[13:08] think Sam, what was it? 50,000 you
anticipated visitors a day
[13:13] » about.
>> Let's do it.
[13:15] » So our population grows from
just shy of 5,000 to 50,000 pretty
[13:22] quickly,
>> right? Every day.
[13:23] » Yeah.
>> That's not counting 141,000
[13:27] for anybody. So that's what a lot of the
legislation won't take in consideration
[13:30] is, you know, and then also that, you
know, smaller cities that are out in
[13:34] West Texas that don't have a sales tax
base.
[13:37] » Yeah.
>> It it doesn't take consideration those
[13:39] as well.
>> I think that there were more cities like
[13:42] that.
>> Yeah.
[13:43] » That are not like us that depend on
retail.
[13:46] » We saw that at that that breakout
meeting that
[13:49] » we did.
So, there's a lot of moving parts, but
[13:53] this year will be highly focused on um
property tax reform and most likely
[13:57] expenditure caps and revenue caps. And
yeah, it's it's going to be interesting,
[14:02] but we'll we'll tackle it as we can. Um
so, that's pretty much in a nutshell the
[14:08] um Oh, and I did do a little breakout
just to kind of show you um so like our
[14:16] this proposed tax rule. Um you can see
that residential is about 30% of the
[14:22] total taxable value. Commercial is about
70%.
[14:26] Um and of the the total that would be
paid to the city about just shy of a
[14:31] million would be from um the residential
side and then the remainder is from the
[14:36] commercial.
So
[14:41] and this is based on a 95% complete
certified rule. There's 5% underneath
[14:45] the protest still.
[14:50] So,
[14:54] and even if we move on from this agenda
item, we're going to have a another one
[14:58] at the end of it discussed in this. So,
if we want to brainstorm more that one,
[15:01] we can as we go through the budget.
But if no one has any questions, I can
[15:06] move on if you would like. Right. Uh
like I said earlier uh we're going to
[15:11] move item number seven. We're going to
discuss it at the end of uh after item
[15:17] number 10. So we're going to move on to
item number eight
[15:22] uh budget discussion.
>> So the first budget discussion um is
[15:26] going to be the general fund. Um as I
just showed you, there was a little bit
[15:29] differential in the sales tax revenue
based on the NNR. Um I I've been playing
[15:34] with the sales tax numbers. Um, I will
probably have an update for that soon.
[15:41] Um,
and then
[15:46] so that's all I have for revenues. Um,
typically in the past what we've done is
[15:51] gone through each department again, but
since we already did that in workshop, I
[15:54] don't know if there was the only
department we did not talk about was
[15:57] CVB, but for the general fund, was there
any other department that we wanted to
[16:02] talk about again or was there any
follow-up [snorts] questions?
[16:06] They say pretty stagnant all those
budgets other than the personnel costs
[16:11] obviously.
>> My own my only question did we have did
[16:17] you utilize zerobased budgeting or did
you use prior year's budget and just
[16:22] build on top of that and assume
everything's going to happen that
[16:26] happened prior year.
>> So
[16:28] » without looking at cutting as much as
you can.
[16:31] So with the expenditure side, each
department does their own budgeting and
[16:34] then turns it into myself. Um we do base
it off of a zero base. Um the majority
[16:41] of our in these departments of our
revenue I mean our expenditures sorry
[16:46] revenues is going to be personnel costs.
So those are automatically just a phase
[16:50] in. Um but on the on the um operational
other than the personnel costs typically
[16:57] a lot of those are aligned with
contracts um that are already set or
[17:02] costs of increase. And then there are
going to be your standard boilerplate um
[17:07] you know accounts like office supplies
and operating you know that are pretty
[17:10] much stagnant and they just carry over
year over year because they're as
[17:14] needed. Um, I think that's might be
answering your question
[17:19] » kind of.
>> Okay.
[17:21] » Really,
>> but other departments can chime in on
[17:22] how they develop their budgets. I, you
know, finance is pretty much a barebones
[17:27] budget. Ours is based on what we have to
pay for audit,
[17:30] » the appraisal share, you know, it's
pretty standard. Um, but other
[17:36] departments have a lot more expenses
than I do. So if anyone wants to if
[17:40] there's any particular one you want to
look at
[17:41] » if I have a department I would think to
me we'd lay out all the expenses I had
[17:46] this year back and say do I have to have
all of this do I have to spend all of
[17:51] that again next year or can I trim this
can I trim that and go line by line and
[17:56] trim as much as I can especially if
we've been coming under it
[18:00] traditionally.
>> Yes. So what I do typically in front so
[18:04] in in the budget book in front of each
department I have the summary change
[18:09] sheets um so it'll show you if there's
been decreases like admin had a decrease
[18:14] to the newsletter because they're going
with impact magazine so they found a
[18:17] better price cost for that right
>> where's this one at
[18:20] » it's in the it's in the budget document
it's on it's before each department
[18:24] » um so um [clears throat]
so there's those things um you you know,
[18:33] they removed several dues and
memberships cuz they don't want to
[18:36] participate in them. They decreased
their infant supplies. So, I do this
[18:41] just so it's very transparent. So,
exactly what changed. Um, so you can see
[18:45] the the thought method for each
department, what decreased, what
[18:49] increased, stuff like that.
>> So, each department had had to come
[18:53] forth and say, "This is what I budgeted
for travel and entertainment last year.
[19:00] I'm cutting as much as I can to save the
city in these areas. So, my new budget
[19:06] for travel and entertainment next year
will be this amount. Did every
[19:11] department do that? Um, so every
department kind of budgets a travel and
[19:15] training a little bit differently. Some
do it by position, some do it as a group
[19:19] total. Like PD has so many employees.
Sorry, I keep forgetting the microphone
[19:24] because I keep trying to make contact
eye contact. So like with police
[19:28] department, they have so many employees
and doesn't mean they're all going to
[19:30] travel and train that year. So they do
more of like a grouping cost for their
[19:34] non-admin side, so for patrol. But then
other departments um same thing with
[19:39] rural department. All the public works
guys aren't going to do training every
[19:43] year. Or if they do, it's going to be
smaller trainins, not like a big um
[19:48] overnight training. So there's some of
the departments that don't want to
[19:52] commit. They put more of like a dollar
amount that should not exceed than
[19:56] [clears throat] to allocate it per
person.
[20:00] » I think that's what
>> that's not zerobased budgeting.
[20:03] » Yeah.
>> No, I think it needs to be more
[20:06] specific. If I'm going to send this this
uh this person to a entry level training
[20:13] program, uh uh next year I'm not going
to have that person do the same thing
[20:18] because he's already trained. So I can
cut that part that particular training
[20:22] program out next year. It would be
better to go by department and by person
[20:28] and make each of those lines a
determination for each line trying to
[20:31] save as much as you can cutting as much.
An example is the um the money that we
[20:38] spend for the city for um events of
going through. I know Charlie is going
[20:45] through and looking at each one say do I
have to have this amount for this for
[20:48] each of these events? Can I trim this
one or trim that one instead of just
[20:53] plugging in the same thing we've always
done? And Charlie has come up with some
[20:58] suggestions because I said we're gonna
have to cut, you know, we need to really
[21:01] save as much as we can. Where can that
be? And he's already got some ideas on
[21:05] where we can trim and and save um some
money.
[21:09] » You're talking about civic club.
>> Civic club.
[21:11] » Okay.
And it would be nice if every department
[21:15] took had that attitude and looked at it
and said, "What can I do to save?"
[21:19] Because we don't want to take taxes up
if we can help it. And if we have to
[21:22] take it up as little as we
[clears throat] can possibly take.
[21:27] So it it looks like I mean if I'm
reading Mr. Please correct me. It looks
[21:32] like our total
um yearly new recurring cost is
[21:36] somewhere around 800 grand
>> for the whole budget or just for general
[21:41] fund
>> police by parody municipal court net
[21:43] impact bulk trash equipment replacement
contributions.
[21:46] » Oh, for the special consideration items.
>> Um I could double check. I haven't I
[21:50] don't know that off the top of my head.
>> And then even if we go up to 0.19 as
[21:54] high as we can without having a tax
selection,
[21:58] » what what is that going to give us? an
extra 165 grand
[22:01] » if you go up to the VA just below the B.
Yes. About that.
[22:04] » So what does that do to us? I mean I
mean we're going to fall short.
[22:09] » Well, so these items that are in here
are just for consideration. They're not
[22:12] going to be all approved. We know this.
This is just to bring to you. Also, some
[22:16] of these items and special consideration
items are non-recurring items. So we can
[22:20] use available cash to pay for those
instead of putting them against your tax
[22:23] rate because they're onetime purchases.
Typically, when you look at a tax rate
[22:27] or a budget, your operating budget
should be clearly for the things that
[22:30] reoccur every year, you know, so
personnel, um, contract costs, stuff
[22:35] like that. Um, like landscaping, um,
trying to think of some other contracts
[22:38] like that, like on the water sewer side,
they have tons of contracts they have to
[22:41] do every year like sledge halls and, um,
you know, chemical maintenance and stuff
[22:46] like that. But for the for other things
that are like in that special
[22:49] consideration, some of those studies,
some of those projects, those can be um
[22:52] allocated out available cash because
they're not recurring in nature. So
[22:56] typically your operating budget should
be only those things that recur every
[23:00] year.
>> Thank you for that explanation. So So
[23:02] the biggest one is equipment replacement
contributions. That's a onetime deal.
[23:05] » Well, so we do that every year, but
because it's a capital assetbased
[23:08] program, we use cash to fund that. It
just al it just restricts it for
[23:12] replacement so that it puts a hold on it
so that it can't be used for anything
[23:16] else basically.
>> Thank you so much.
[23:18] » Yeah, no problem.
>> Well, the biggest things are personnel
[23:23] expenses
>> and contractual
[23:27] expenses.
That's really where a lot of this is
[23:31] placed.
>> Yes.
[23:32] » You know,
>> so in the general fund especially, it's
[23:34] a government servicesbased budget. So
government services is typically um you
[23:39] know police department, fire, it's a big
it's a big personnel budget. You know
[23:45] water sewer does it and CBB those are
kind of opposite. They have more
[23:50] contracts and stuff like that um
operational costs than they do personnel
[23:54] costs. So um but you know water sewer is
technically a business type activity. Um
[24:00] it's that's more of like as if you're
running a business than it is a
[24:05] government service. But because it is
the city controls our water system, it
[24:09] helps with economies of scale on a lot
of our costs and administrative costs
[24:13] because you don't have to hire other
people because they share like they
[24:17] share finance people, you know. So you
don't you say that's why our water rates
[24:20] can be subsidized lower because you do
have that economies of scale with the
[24:24] city controlling it. But it is to be ran
kind of like a business and that's why
[24:28] it stands on its own most of the time. U
we made that we uh a couple council
[24:33] cycles before made it very um
[clears throat]
[24:36] that this should be you know in the past
it's been kind of supplemented with
[24:40] general fund and that's not usually good
practice. So a couple councils ago they
[24:45] determined this should be a
self-sufficient fund and that's how
[24:48] we've been treating it since then.
Was
[24:55] there any particular other questions
about the general fund expenditures
[24:59] or if there's any department we want to
hone in on?
[25:02] » We you just want to talk about the whole
general fund, not department.
[25:06] » We we talked about it before, but if
there's any changes that
[25:09] » Well,
I just don't want to breeze over the
[25:13] whole thing.
>> No, you're good. I could do a quick
[25:15] rundown if you want me um to
>> Oh, no. I'm not trying to make you do
[25:18] anything, you know.
>> I'm here, you know. So,
[25:23] » we had we had to budget a week when the
first
[25:27] » Yeah.
>> the first thing, you know what I mean?
[25:29] And I'm going to pick on Ernest here. He
didn't have time to really look at this.
[25:34] You know what I mean?
>> Nor did I. Nor did
[25:38] » I don't think any of us.
>> Yeah.
[25:39] » No, really. So, I don't want to prolong
the meeting. I mean, just for the sake
[25:45] of prolonging the meeting, I do want to
talk talk about some of these things.
[25:49] » So, I'll just go over the summary change
sheets for each department because
[25:53] that's usually easier to kind of hone in
on see what happened.
[25:56] » Um, so for like the administration
department, they had a a 3.99% increase
[26:02] to their operating budget. Um,
and the majority of that is going to be
[26:08] obviously personnel cost, right? like
we've been kind of um explaining um
[26:15] there was other some other small
changes. Um there is let me make while
[26:21] we're already on here [clears throat] um
so last year we had moved all the
[26:26] medical expenses for each department
back into the department's budgets from
[26:30] the non-depart budget where it's lived
prior to me starting here. So, um, so
[26:39] there was, um, some increases to the
rates for insurance. This year, I do put
[26:44] in a small percent increase into the
proposed budget as a hypothetical just
[26:48] to have an earmark on it. Um, so this
year I had anticipated medical would go
[26:53] up 6%, it did co go in as a weighted
11%. So I added those to the summary
[26:59] change sheet on the screen for each
department. So it's additional 5%. And
[27:03] then but our dental insurance that I
anticipated a 5% increase.
[27:08] » Excuse me. Could you make that bigger?
>> Oh yeah, sorry.
[27:11] » Please.
>> I [clears throat]
[27:14] came to see you couldn't read it on the
screen anymore.
[27:19] » So, um, but dental had a decrease. So, I
had put in there a 5% increase and it
[27:24] came in at three. So, there's a 2%
differential that went back into the
[27:28] budget.
[27:33] So, the net change to the insurance is
just for the general fund. Obviously,
[27:36] there's water, sewer, and CBB, their own
funds, but it nets out to be about a
[27:41] $45,47
[27:44] differential on the [clears throat]
insurance rates from what was budgeted
[27:47] to what was to the actual.
Also,
[27:53] there were some changes on some of the
plan like um plan plan um sorry tiers.
[27:58] So what the employee elects if it's an
employee only employee and family
[28:03] employee and spouse employee and child.
So there were some changes within
[28:07] [snorts] the departments with different
levels of uh needed coverage.
[28:14] » So I'm just looking at it and and I
don't have the whole thing but let we're
[28:20] talking about admin. Okay. So their
salaries and wages went up 2.4% 4% to
[28:26] the two and the $9,000.
>> Mhm.
[28:29] » The uh dental accidental dispersement
went up 9.42%.
[28:35] » Well, that one changed because there was
a this is based on the proposed.
[28:38] » I understand. But the effect of the
whole budget that we're talking about
[28:42] because we're up we are going to get to
the bottom line on this, you know.
[28:48] » Well, that went up then the group
insurance is up 23%.
[28:53] um to the tune of $72,491.
Okay. And those are all
[29:01] figures that were on the
>> Yeah.
[29:04] » Sheet.
FICA's up 1.7. So when you take all of
[29:10] these, that's where you get your print
4%
[29:14] » personnel expenses
>> right here. The seven. It's hard to
[29:18] » sit here and just look at all this and
not really know where all the little
[29:22] pieces are in there, you know.
>> And
[29:27] » so total personnel cost for like admin
went up just shy of 24,000 total for all
[29:32] those
>> department uh category 61.
[29:34] » There you go.
>> Mhm.
[29:35] » And it's on this screen here. Yeah.
>> And see going forward this is a
[29:41] recurring every year.
>> Yeah.
[29:45] What would what did uh it go up last
year?
[29:49] » Um
personnel went up 64,000 last year.
[29:55] » What was the percentage?
>> Uh
[29:59] had like that recent column just a total
of that.
[30:03] » It's on an Excel so it's a word. So I
got [laughter] Yeah. PDF.
[30:08] » No, I was just looking at the
>> 3%.
[30:10] » Yeah.
>> Yeah.
[30:11] » So 3% for you. So last year 3% this year
3.9
[30:20] » does that fall into does some of that
fall into the step?
[30:25] » Yes. So we factor in so um my software
basically calculates the personnel
[30:31] increase for each person based on their
their anniversary date. So it's it's
[30:36] pretty true to what their pay will be.
Historically, we've had to do kind of
[30:41] Excelbased, but our software allows us
to pin it down to the actual step uh
[30:45] raise month so it gets a true accurate
personnel cost.
[30:51] » So, realistically for all the different
departments, we can look at we can plan
[30:56] a 3%
increase pretty much per year.
[31:01] » I would say three to four based on what
the insurance um rates come in at every
[31:05] year. That's the one that's a variable
that we just don't know until usually
[31:08] the end of July. unfortunately
[31:16] is the um probably part of what I'm I
guess I'm looking at I know there are
[31:21] some costs that are associated with it
the insurance uh those types of things
[31:25] are
a lot of that's out of our hand. The
[31:29] only thing we can do is shop around for
a better
[31:32] place unless we have restrictions on
that. um is um what I'm really looking
[31:38] to get at is you know what were the
percentages of the uh revenue uh for
[31:45] salaries
um you know where did that fall and what
[31:50] was that last year compared to what it
is
[31:54] » oh for the sal just the salaries general
ledger I mean account um
[32:00] » had to be a whole lot last year because
we had the the the police parity But
[32:05] that wouldn't
>> not for admin
[32:07] » me admin.
>> But oh yeah, that's totally okay.
[32:11] » So
for last year we budgeted So the year
[32:17] that we're in So you're talking about
25, right? So not the year we're in
[32:21] right now. Yeah. [laughter]
>> Sorry. So la for 25 we budgeted for
[32:26] 139,000 and it came in at 432,000.
>> So it came in pretty close.
[32:36] Is there a way to extrapolate what 24
then was over for 25? Or you can do the
[32:41] 25 to 26?
>> No, we haven't agreed on that one yet.
[32:45] » Are you talking budget versus actual or
you talking about actual over actual
[32:49] like
>> actual over?
[32:50] » Oh, okay. I'm sorry.
>> Yeah, I'm didn't clarify.
[32:54] » No, you're good. And the year-to- date
numbers in this budget document are as
[32:57] of like the end of June. So obviously
we've had another month of expenditure
[33:02] so we're a little far behind. Um
>> but just doing an you do you have
[33:08] available 25 to 26 of what the wages
wage difference or increase was from 25
[33:15] to 26.
>> Uh yeah so they did have a personnel
[33:20] move so and we had someone leave that
was more tenure. So there's a little bit
[33:24] that's the other thing you have to
consider is people move in people
[33:27] leaving stuff like that. So, actually
the actual from 25
[33:33] or the the budget from 25 to the budget
on this year was only a $1,000
[33:37] difference for salaries and wages
because there was a lot of movement
[33:40] between
>> Yeah.
[33:42] » Yeah.
>> That's the hard part about salaries and
[33:44] wages because it's not always going to
be there's always some variables that
[33:47] happen.
>> Um
[33:49] » Yeah. Okay.
>> So, Joe, to your point,
[33:53] admin went up 2.4%.
finance went up three 3%. Okay. Um
[34:05] there's 14. Okay.
pretty even on uh
[34:23] you'll see the salary salary and wages
on police went up uh just 4% this time
[34:31] [clears throat]
was 22% last year because of the parody
[34:35] but um
You can you you can find all of that.
[34:41] You know what I mean? It's but there's
so much more in category 61
[34:46] [clears throat] which is personal
expenses. The whole thing that's what
[34:50] Lisa is talking about there group
insurance pretty close to what you said
[34:55] three three to four%.
>> Yes.
[34:58] » So if you just look at salary wages and
like taxes you're usually at three and
[35:01] then everything else factors in. So
you're about 3%
[35:04] » and a lot of that's out of your control.
>> Yeah. So like workman's comp is also
[35:08] considered in there and that so TML how
they do workman's comp it's based on
[35:12] obviously the exposure rate for a police
officer is going to be a lot higher than
[35:16] for me right because I'm just at a desk.
Um so every year they the poll has to do
[35:20] their uh actuarian calculations and they
figure out what's the appropriate
[35:25] exposure rates for position
>> and then we get those numbers and then I
[35:29] calculate it against the payrolls. So
>> yeah, I guess what I'm just trying to
[35:34] and 100% understand
>> all of the variations that
[35:38] » Yeah.
>> an employee is isn't just uh I got a
[35:41] paycheck.
>> Yes.
[35:42] » It's all the other factors.
>> It's all the other factors that go into
[35:45] it and just you know we need to be aware
of that those so many of that if we want
[35:51] to provide those benefits to our
employees which we do
[35:55] » um those are control factors that are
out of our hands. Uh and really what I
[36:02] was trying to get to uh kind of goes
back to
[36:06] what is the actual set take-home for
them because a lot of people benefits
[36:10] are benefits. Sometimes they
>> some people understand the importance of
[36:16] it's great to have benefits.
>> Some people just want the dollar amount.
[36:18] » Somebody just want the dollar amount.
Typically your younger employees look at
[36:22] more dollar amount what you're going to
bring home and then your mid to older
[36:26] tenure employees look at
>> retirement health insurance stuff like
[36:30] that.
>> It's completely different thing. And so
[36:32] my only point and I don't want to labor
it any longer was just to try to get to
[36:37] what are our manageables
>> and are we doing the best program for
[36:44] doing that? And um and I I know that
I've brought it [cough] up in as an
[36:49] agenda item, you know, [snorts] talking
about do we reconsider our process? Do
[36:56] we take a look at our process? Do we
need to make some changes? Do we need to
[37:00] modify it? Um are we not paying enough?
Um you know, are we not, you know, as we
[37:06] just give someone a, you know, a a
programmed raise and honestly their
[37:13] value is greater than that? We don't
want to lose that knowledge or there are
[37:17] some that and I haven't seen any of
these people that just okay I don't have
[37:23] to perform for it you know I'm just
going to get it it's just going to come
[37:27] year after year after year and so you
know this is just going into that
[37:32] questioning do we need to and I know
there's an agenda item that Sam's
[37:37] brought on
>> yes I was going to allude to that
[37:39] » yeah you're in luck
>> yeah [laughter]
[37:41] so I know that we're but I wanted to
just
[37:45] » you know talk about it because these are
considerations we can consider the
[37:49] things we can change
>> can't necessarily
[37:53] » you know affect the other items if we
want [snorts] to provide them to our
[37:57] employees
>> at the end of the day you look at it
[37:59] it's just the cost of doing business
>> and it's up to us to manage that
[38:03] » exactly 100%
[38:08] been there done that
>> and see our revenue is dependent um
[38:14] sales tax which we can't control at all.
Who shops over here?
[38:17] » Yeah.
>> Or if they go away or COVID comes along
[38:21] or whatever which devastated us several
years ago.
[38:24] » Yeah. And the way we have it so right
now is our taxes is such a high
[38:28] dependency upon them performing
terrific.
[38:31] » But then you said Joe and look at
Oakidge and everybody around you and
[38:35] we're well below them. You know what I
mean?
[38:37] » Yeah. So
>> yeah, every year we try to,
[38:42] you know,
the department heads know if they ask me
[38:46] for a big dollar amount, I always go,
where are the alternates? Because I like
[38:50] to challenge them to find other cost
saving initiatives as well. Um, but
[38:55] sometimes you can't you can't avoid it.
Um, but like Charlie said, we do rely on
[39:00] one of the most volatile type of
revenues,
[39:04] » you know, in government. Um, so that is
something that you always have to be
[39:10] cognizant of and we've done a really
good job at keeping the tax rate.
[39:13] » Yes, we have.
>> Low.
[39:14] » Even with our expenditures going up with
the addit need for um, you know, fire
[39:20] and police and those are typically your
big budgets. Um everything else kind of
[39:26] falls in line um as support budgets, but
uh we've done a really good job at
[39:31] keeping our tax rate low,
>> huge for many years and and that's good.
[39:36] I'm not
>> Yeah.
[39:37] » Yeah.
>> It's just that that I want council to
[39:42] look at the whole budget at the end.
We're able to do that, you know, with
[39:46] what we can control, but you know,
sometimes we just can't because it's
[39:50] based on the economy and, you know,
pandemic or you other factors that are
[39:56] well beyond our control
>> and you never know what's going to come
[39:58] down from legislation for unfunded
mandates. You just never know.
[40:02] » That's the greatest
>> in my that's the landmines right now
[40:06] » in my opinion for what can come down
from the state. We cannot plan that.
[40:11] » And I just don't understand how how that
would be supplemented,
[40:16] » how a cut in property taxes would would
be supplemented other than raising sales
[40:21] tax
>> and you have to have the sales tax
[40:24] » the state six and a quarter% and we're
too.
[40:26] » Yeah.
>> Of which a half a half a percent is MDB.
[40:29] » Yeah. what I'm saying at at the state
level.
[40:31] » You know, I mean, what other
>> state they would have to either a
[40:33] portion of their claim back to the
pecking order of um other for the
[40:38] remainder or they would have to increase
their consumption tax, right? Well, to
[40:44] to something for consideration, um,
Councilman Pard talking about zerobased
[40:50] budgeting, there there are things and
different variables that we have that
[40:55] it's beyond our control as far as, you
know, fuel prices. We we can't control
[41:01] that. So, so zerobased budgeting for
that is very difficult because we don't
[41:06] know what to calculate. We have to go
off of estimations. is we have to go off
[41:10] of what we previously used before and
then guess on what the fuel prices are
[41:18] going to average for the next year. Uh
like this last year, we missed it
[41:22] because we we estimated based upon uh
$3.30. Well, that increase went up
[41:30] higher than that. So th those are
variables that that are beyond our
[41:34] control, but we do our best to to budget
based upon just the knowledge we have at
[41:39] the time. Um
zerobased budgeting it's it's you can do
[41:45] that on on many of the items, but there
are some items that you just you can't
[41:49] [snorts] do that on. Um
you just have to go based upon some
[41:55] [clears throat]
guesstimations.
[41:58] Unfortunately,
>> what he's trying to say is there's no
[42:01] contingency, Jim. There's no
>> Yeah, we try not to bug any
[42:05] » things. So, we call it available cash.
Okay, that's the term that
[42:11] if we run over, we just get it from
available cash. Well, you what's already
[42:17] encumbered out, we don't know. And I've
asked her, she's done a great job
[42:21] addressing that. You know what I mean?
So,
[42:25] even though this says there's $3,000 in
available cash, not the 180, but just
[42:30] there's 3,000, it's really 900,000,
>> right?
[42:37] » I know it [laughter] is.
>> You look at your last monthly report and
[42:41] that's what you had.
>> Oh, the It's a three million. Yeah, the
[42:44] three. Yeah, the unassigned unassigned.
Sorry.
[42:48] » But in other words, encumbered. We said
we're on Tam Road. We're a million nine.
[42:52] ND said they're going to put in there.
You know what I mean? And that's all
[42:56] even their money's in this pool. So
that's what I'm concerned about. Why I
[43:02] start looking at all of this and feel
the pinch that we Yes, we want police
[43:06] officers. Yes, we want to pay it. But,
you know, it's going to come to a point
[43:12] where
>> we're between a rock and a hard place,
[43:15] » right?
and it's going to come and it's close,
[43:19] you know, and so do we raise taxes
because it's all other people's money.
[43:23] All of our money is what I call opium.
Opium, other people's money. And
[43:28] [clears throat]
[43:31] and we can't control it. So, we just
have to be and we've done a great job,
[43:34] all of us, staff, all of us have done a
great job of managing this and we're in
[43:42] good shape. I just want to keep it.
>> I do too. And I I just want to make sure
[43:46] that we're going blindbody
and the things that we can control that
[43:51] we could say, "Look, I can cut here and
I can cut here and I'm going to I'm
[43:54] going to cut to the bone if I [snorts]
can until it hurts it hurts the city."
[43:59] And then that's how how much I would
budget on areas like gas and things that
[44:03] are totally uncontrollable. Yeah, you
got to take a a swag. But um but the
[44:09] ones that we can control to cut it as
hard as much as we can. And there's
[44:14] several items I think that every I think
all every one of those lines have to be
[44:19] looked at by each department head and
and reviewed
[44:23] by Sam,
you know, and and that's what we do when
[44:28] before it goes to Lisa for review. We're
going I'm meeting with each department.
[44:32] We're going through line by line items.
we're looking at, okay, we can do
[44:36] without this year, we can reduce on that
year. And you see that in her summaries
[44:40] up there where you see some of the uh
the red where we've cut in certain
[44:45] areas. And so that is happening on on
that linear level, that granular level.
[44:52] » And I believe if you go back to so my
first budget cycle that I took over was
[44:56] the 2018 fiscal year. Um and that was
when um Joseph was interim um before
[45:03] Kathy came back from Bassrop and we took
a red we took a red pen to that budget
[45:10] me and Joseph and we it was a it was a
lot of push back but we
[45:15] » we got rid of a lot of contingency that
was built into the budget. Um, so and
[45:21] and I can look in historically, but I
think year-over-year our budget other
[45:25] than personnel costs like police pay,
parody, we have not had that great of a
[45:30] percent increase. Um, because that one
year, man, I don't even know what we
[45:34] cut, but we cut a lot.
>> Yeah. And I'll just add, and you can
[45:38] look at this in the budget book itself.
I just grabbed public works for the past
[45:41] couple years where we had full data. Um
so in the 2024
[45:46] 25
fiscal year the public works came within
[45:51] you know 1% of what was budgeted is what
was spent like 99% was spent. That's
[45:56] that's incredibly tight. That's a little
too tight.
[45:59] » That's a little too close for comfort.
The year prior to that came they came
[46:02] with an 8% which is a little more
comfortable. So um I think that just
[46:08] shows there's not a whole lot of fluff
there. It's pretty trim because we're
[46:12] we're getting really close to that
number, which, you know, it's it's kind
[46:16] of a crystal ball to to to try to guess
what you're gonna expend, but and you
[46:21] can look at that across the other
departments. Um, you know, you're not
[46:24] seeing a surplus of 20 30% where the
budget wasn't used. Um, so it's just
[46:30] trying to hit that number.
>> And our three largest bud budgets in the
[46:33] general fund is going to be police,
fire, public works. Those are I think
[46:37] more than probably three4s of the budget
if I had to guess off the top of my
[46:42] head. And then again, public works is
another
[46:45] » that's another thing that's affected by
external factors,
[46:49] » you know, your chemicals and
>> yeah, the price of equipment and
[46:54] » repairs,
>> the tariffs that we have to deal with
[46:57] from suppliers and
>> so that's heavily impacted by that.
[47:01] » And you know, in the public works
specifically, you know, there's funding
[47:04] for road repairs, sidewalk repairs, and
you just don't know where those numbers
[47:08] are going to hit. You don't know what
potholes are going to be filled. So
[47:11] » you try your best. you kind of look at
what it's been and try to base it off of
[47:15] of that. So you you're hitting a number.
You know, every time we go through our
[47:20] budget, we look at, okay, what have our
expenses been last year? And let's use
[47:24] that as a gauge um to see where we're
going to hit. We know where maybe we uh
[47:30] we saw that the price of asphalt patch
and co concrete patch has been going up.
[47:35] Okay, we got to bump that number up
because we know it's going to cost more
[47:38] and we're going to be patching about the
same amount.
[47:43] And on the other hand, we've been pretty
lucky the last couple of years that we
[47:46] have saved on some of these projected
expenses and have gotten money uh money
[47:51] back
>> on some of the capital projects. Some of
[47:53] the capital projects expense control is
>> staff works great
[47:59] spending what they budget is just
[clears throat]
[48:05] we intend to spend this amount
if you go over
[48:10] you have to have available cash like
this
[48:14] and by state law I have to bal I have to
I have to adopt a propos uh a balanced
[48:19] budget so we have to make sure all the
revenues supersede the expenditures.
[48:25] » If you guys will just give me a little
bit of forbearance and I'm still trying
[48:29] to get my feet on these
>> um I've got a very complic sort of a
[48:33] complicated question and part of it is
for CBB and part of it is for um our
[48:39] reserve policy
>> and
[48:41] » we can so we can go um [clears throat]
if you want to discuss that during that
[48:46] time
>> I think that's coming up
[48:49] » it's it's all kind of intertwined.
>> Okay, that's fine. These aren't separate
[48:52] questions.
>> Okay. Okay.
[48:54] » All right. So, these are separate
question. So, my [clears throat]
[48:56] question is this. Um I I know this isn't
a possible question, but I'm going to
[49:01] ask anyway. Is there a way for you guys
to predict general fund returns on CVB
[49:06] expenditures? I know that we beds and
beds is is our our phrase of of choice,
[49:11] but
I'm sorry to ask this question. I know
[49:15] it's difficult to to predict, but um are
you guys able to look into the future
[49:19] and say, you know, the our activities
are probably going to um generate so
[49:24] much money for the general fund
>> like an economic impact?
[49:27] » Yeah. Yeah.
>> And John does a good job with the state
[49:30] on that.
>> Yeah. I mean, one of the things that we
[49:34] try doing like when we do annual report
is highlighting we can't capture
[49:39] everything. One of the things that are
um different I guess in our traditional
[49:45] business is in this city and many of you
have known this and heard me talk about
[49:50] this and it's the differences of not
having traditional destination drivers.
[49:56] So when we don't have a convention
center, we don't have major sporting
[50:02] fields that we're hosting tournaments
on, we don't do major festivals that are
[50:07] bringing people from all over. um those
things that when you're looking at in a
[50:13] traditional CVB operation you have sales
teams you have all sorts of people
[50:18] selling booking and all those things
generate economic impact which come in
[50:23] so what we do is we've built our own
unique program we know what we're doing
[50:29] we know how many rooms we are booking
for our hotels we know and and and I you
[50:34] know so room nights and rooms we've
advanced a long way and tracking all
[50:39] that based on our marketing programs
that we do that we know with some
[50:44] certainty. um the impact beyond that um
and the dependencies on the economy. You
[50:52] know, one of the things you also have to
understand just like y'all are talking
[50:55] here on a good year on a bad year is
whether it's general sales tax or it's
[51:03] our tourism production. You have to
realize when the economy is bad or if
[51:10] it's going down and people are getting
stressed because they don't know if they
[51:15] can pay their bills, buy medicine, put
food on the table, or any of those types
[51:20] of things. When that happens,
travel is discretionary. It's the first
[51:26] to get cut. And I don't have to look at
you in simple economics. If you're
[51:30] having a hard time, are you going to go
out and be eating out as much or taking
[51:35] your kids to entertainment venues or
going on trips at hotels or do you go to
[51:42] stay family or stations at home and find
other things to do? People adjust. So
[51:47] those are the other kind of things but
we definitely have from our bureau and
[51:52] what we're doing and what we're putting
out um what we've been producing and you
[51:57] know part of that annual report that
we've talked about over the last
[52:02] three years we've we've been almost on a
three-year run of year-over-year
[52:07] increases and all-time historic highs.
So, and as as we're doing that, you
[52:13] know, like I said, we can we can look at
that.
[52:17] » You guys have done a great job, and I'm
not questioning that. It was it was kind
[52:20] of I mean, and maybe when we get to that
section, I'll re I'll restate
[52:23] undifferent question. And I guess what I
was trying to get to is this. We have a
[52:28] a budget challenge it looks like in
front of us. And um my question was and
[52:33] maybe it's because main experience is if
we could revise our um if we could
[52:40] revise our budget surplus policy enough
[clears throat] help bridge based on
[52:46] projected potential from CVB driving
funds into but that sounds like a pretty
[52:51] broad question for you.
>> Are you are you trying to So
[52:54] [clears throat] I'm understanding you
and I'm trying to just to be sure I'm
[52:57] understanding the question. Are you
trying to say if we know what we're
[53:02] producing in room tax, hotel room nights
or that put a correlation to that to we
[53:08] already Lisa gets controller reports
from the state controller and we know
[53:12] what we're producing in sales tax. So
are you just trying to see if we could
[53:17] come up with a model algorithm for
determining if there's a correlation
[53:22] » in a sense and if we could project
activities to future income only because
[53:26] we we I think we have We have the
statutory right to have a budget
[53:31] stabilization.
We could we could generate a budget
[53:34] stabilization if we adjusted our our um
surplus policy. I think we can do that
[53:39] maybe one time. I don't know how many
times we can do that. But
[53:41] [clears throat]
um and you're right, we we have to be
[53:45] aware of of the swings in the economy.
And I apologize I I'll switch this to
[53:49] the CBD discussion later. I was just
curious because it's a complicated
[53:52] thing. Um, I don't want to
I mean I mean our we provide services,
[54:00] we provide protection, we provide
continuity for all everyone who lives in
[54:05] our in our community and and that's why
we're here. Um, I don't like hearing
[54:10] we're going to cut to the bone until the
city hurts because the city is everybody
[54:13] that we're trying to take care of,
right? I know that whoever said that
[54:15] meant that those of us are here, right?
I mean, we're here to take care of our
[54:20] of our neighbors.
>> And so, um, and and
[54:25] you know, Ron brought this up when he
was when he was in this position. We
[54:29] have a a huge surplus. I don't want to
raid it. Um, but if we can do something,
[54:34] if it's if this is challenging enough
that a budget stabilization could be
[54:39] considered, I'm just throwing that out
there for just a sec.
[54:43] » Okay, that's it.
>> Let's Yeah, we'll let's discuss it. uh
[54:47] in the next uh the next hour. Uh is
everyone anyone ready for a break? Uh
[54:54] don't I want to take 10-minute breaks
every hour and I want to catch this at
[54:59] [laughter] 4 hours till 9:00. We'll see
if we can get to that goal.
[55:05] » So would you let's take a 10 minute
break. Come back at uh it's 5:55
[55:12] 6:05. Okay.
[55:27] I forgot the cover.
[55:34] » I know.
I'm getting my hearing aid.
[55:47] I'd
[56:00] Step
glass.
[56:27] Yeah.
[56:36] » Right.
[56:44] sister.
[57:04] » Yeah.
[57:09] Anyway,
[57:15] I stepped up
[57:33] everywhere. She's like freaking out.
[57:38] I was sticking in my foot.
[58:07] Just slap me around.
[58:23] Hearing
[58:38] so better.
[58:44] » But did I understand your question too?
I wasn't sure if I understood your
[58:48] question. Are you trying to tryation
a little bit?
[59:22] Well, no.
A few things on that as I know it,
[59:30] but the legis that's a legislative issue
at the state level. It's not here. We
[59:35] have our current, you know, Texas
twostep as you were in there
[59:41] and these are the uses of which
I thought you were talking about our
[59:47] reserves.
[59:52] » Okay, that's misunderstanding. Ours have
to be used for those enumerated whatever
[59:57] they are.
[1:00:12] move everything around
[1:00:17] the event.
[1:00:29] We're stretched.
[1:00:33] » Yes.
[1:00:37] » I know. I I I walked in 10 minutes
before it started. So, you're good. I
[1:00:42] was working
the um
[1:00:47] the
[1:00:50] what I guess I'm saying is
to do what are you talking about? Our
[1:01:09] largest hotel is full service.
It's under 5,000 ft of space.
[1:01:17] » It can do about 2 225
in
[1:01:22] in a contest.
Many convention. That's probably the
[1:01:27] best hotel.
[1:01:32] And so my point on that is that is our
biggest and the only
[1:01:59] » and then we some of those rooms
about00.
[1:02:11] » Oh yeah. Yeah.
[1:02:26] » But we don't have
that enables us to be large.
[1:02:33] So, so it's like when we our
small medium
[1:02:39] because
one and only
[1:02:45] it doesn't matter how nice it is like
over it's 70 people
[1:02:52] in a meeting.
So, you're not generating big bucks
[1:02:58] on
70 people
[1:03:04] that's going to be that would be
[1:03:12] negative on
>> no off that and you only get 7%
[1:03:21] on the city side
for that. So whatever their state is
[1:03:26] that
[1:03:34] » he
[1:03:44] finally go
[1:04:04] Yeah.
[1:04:40] reconvene
uh this uh session. Uh we have a lot to
[1:04:45] cover. So, let's uh let's try to move on
a little quicker.
[1:04:51] Um Lisa, will you continue?
>> Yes. So, as we were talking and it, you
[1:04:57] know, the light went off on my brain on
the first couple pages of the budget
[1:05:01] document, I do do a whole general fund
proposed budget breakout. Um, and it
[1:05:06] shows you the variance percentage
variance of revenue and expenses year
[1:05:12] over from the fiscal year prior to this
fiscal year budget. So if you look at
[1:05:17] it, the overall operating revenue for
the city was about 3.6% increase
[1:05:23] overall.
So um, and the one department that had a
[1:05:28] negative budget impact was technology.
Good job, Chris.
[1:05:34] Um, and that's with a lot of contract
negotiations. Chris's budget is mainly
[1:05:38] contracts. [laughter]
>> I beat on him this year.
[1:05:41] » And he does and he covers all technology
contracts. So, it's not just his, it's
[1:05:46] CB's contracts, water sewers contracts,
and then they pay back the general fund
[1:05:50] for that contribution. But it just puts
all that into one budget for management.
[1:05:55] » I even fired a couple of them, too. So,
>> yeah. So, um, so you'll see the like
[1:06:00] parks had a bigger increase, but they
need more landscaping. Um, we added the
[1:06:06] veterans park, electricity, stuff like
that. Um, which electricity is also a
[1:06:10] variable that we have to try to gauge
every year. Um, my department did have a
[1:06:16] larger increase, but it's because of the
MCAD share, um, and our audit share. So
[1:06:21] that's out of my control because it's
based on the the MCAD share is based on
[1:06:24] their p their budget and our valuation.
It's a percentage of their total budget.
[1:06:30] So those are things I can't really
control. Um fire services that's based
[1:06:35] on um they take 10 they're based on a
10-centent of our valuation. So if you
[1:06:40] really think about our tax rate, a lot
of that goes towards your fire coverage.
[1:06:45] Um so and then other departments,
not much. usually about four% or less
[1:06:53] and then when you weigh it it's about
3.67%.
[1:06:57] » Police department was 2.2
just saying
[1:07:03] » that's just operational. That doesn't
include your transfer placement. If we
[1:07:06] did factor that in that would be a
[laughter] higher uh but um because Taho
[1:07:11] are
>> yeah these are just for straight
[1:07:14] operational costs
like M.
[1:07:20] Are there any any additional questions
on uh item sub item A?
[1:07:26] If not, let's move on to sub item B. Um,
okay. So, moving on from the general
[1:07:32] fund. So, just just a quick summary. The
only changes I really have to budget
[1:07:38] from what was proposed to now is the
medical um contributions and the revenue
[1:07:44] side is the property tax differential.
Um, moving on to CBB. Um,
[1:07:52] you'll see they do have the insurance
differential as well like the other
[1:07:56] general fund had. And because John, um,
we we postponed his discussion from the
[1:08:02] first budget meeting because we wanted
the advisory board to meet first prior
[1:08:07] to discussing their budget if there was
any proposals or requests. Um and then
[1:08:11] the second meeting, John was at um a
conference, so we had to um postpone his
[1:08:17] till today. So um pretty much the CBB
budget has not um there's been some new
[1:08:24] programs. I apologize. I need to get to
that page.
[1:08:37] Um so yes their um budget went up for
personnel of course um contractual
[1:08:44] services went about up about 12,600
supplies went up about 700 other
[1:08:50] operating costs went up about 9,000 um
and um
[1:08:57] so if you look at their summary of
change um sheet year-over-year I'll
[1:09:02] you'll see there's from like that
negative 25,000 it just moved to a
[1:09:05] different GL so you'll see it pushed
back or the 15,000 did um and then the
[1:09:10] STR went to another line item that went
to the advertising um so if there's any
[1:09:17] specific questions about John's budget
he [snorts] is here to answer those for
[1:09:20] you
>> I want to jump in there uh
[1:09:24] our our board has met a couple of times
now and uh in one in one situation John
[1:09:31] presented a an event opportunity. Uh,
and they they endorsed that. They just
[1:09:38] wanted to make sure the council
understood that. Hopefully, John will
[1:09:41] have an opportunity at some point to
>> to bring that forward. We're hoping that
[1:09:45] he has success with it.
>> The other thing is the the board uh
[1:09:50] wants to participate
in the annual conferences and training
[1:09:55] opportunities.
[snorts and clears throat]
[1:09:56] Uh we've already scheduled them to
attend uh destination Texas.
[1:10:03] We opened it up to all of them of course
uh and we would extend an invitation to
[1:10:08] council. I had a communication directly
with them and they were overwhelmingly
[1:10:13] in favor of us participating
in that program and uh we're excited
[1:10:19] about it. So we we got registered and um
[clears throat]
[1:10:24] I'm not sure that we were reflecting
enough in the budget for the future with
[1:10:29] regard to training and conferences.
>> Yes. So that was um one item I was going
[1:10:37] to bring up was um we would probably
need to increase their travel and train
[1:10:41] and budget um
for uh depending on how many conferences
[1:10:47] they were looking at.
>> Right. Yeah. Well, and I think that we
[1:10:50] need the opportunity to evaluate that as
as a board to see how many we would like
[1:10:54] to go to. I know that Councilman Pard uh
is planning on going to one in October.
[1:11:00] Uh we have several of us, including um
uh just at least five, I think. Isn't
[1:11:07] that right, Sam? Five or six uh from the
board and um and perhaps even a staff
[1:11:12] person. I'm not sure. Uh but with uh
with that said, it would seem to me that
[1:11:19] this is a good time right now to go
ahead and plan for that. We know what
[1:11:22] these conferences are. It's it's there's
historical data, I'm sure, that you can
[1:11:28] draw on to calculate your you budget for
travel and hotel and such. Uh so it
[1:11:34] would really encourage us to do that,
beef up that portion of the budget. And
[1:11:41] um another question that's coming to
mind uh that
[1:11:46] could relate and help us with our
revenue side of things both for not only
[1:11:51] the CBB but for the general fund is what
are we
[1:11:55] what are we missing in the way of
somebody on staff who is dedicated to
[1:12:00] business development?
Someone who knows how to sell. someone
[1:12:04] who can go out and promote the city, can
find the sponsorship dollars. You know,
[1:12:11] we don't have to sponsor events and pay
for everything out of a general fund or
[1:12:16] out of CVB. What if we have somebody on
staff who specializes in that type of
[1:12:20] business activity? So, and they could be
they could be a CBB employee and do uh a
[1:12:29] monumental task would be just helping uh
John and Billy in just the
[1:12:35] organizational operation of the CVB and
be out there promoting the CVB through
[1:12:39] the sales efforts that they could do. I
mean, it's it's something John said
[1:12:43] earlier that really, you know, makes
sense. We're not a traditional
[1:12:48] in the traditional sense, but we could
be kind of a hybrid.
[1:12:52] » And um so maybe looking at the budget
with regard to could we program a staff
[1:12:59] person into this budget that could could
be a out there helping to develop the
[1:13:05] business? because uh the the truth is,
you know, the more tourism we have, the
[1:13:11] more people here, the more they spend,
the more sales tax we bring in. And so
[1:13:17] to sum that up,
we're we're in a need and that need is
[1:13:23] to raise more revenue.
That's going to be part of the solution
[1:13:27] to our future needs. And I would suggest
we do something now to begin that
[1:13:35] process.
And um those are the two items I wanted
[1:13:39] to bring forward.
>> Yeah. So we can um if that's something
[1:13:43] council wants to venture, I can work
with John to get um salary scope put
[1:13:47] together for that to add to the budget.
Also, we'll look at the I do now have a
[1:13:51] little bit of history because we just
booked the travel and training so I can
[1:13:54] see how that's all playing out and I can
add that for the final budget adoption
[1:13:58] as well. and CBB does have, you know, an
anticipated budget surplus for just of
[1:14:05] operational of 284. So that can be
easily achieved in that
[1:14:09] » budget. Councilman Robinson, on on that,
I think we could to look at trying to
[1:14:15] narrow down a a budget that we can work
with is let's just say we want to
[1:14:20] estimate all the board members do two
conferences a year. that gives us a good
[1:14:27] bearing of of what we want to budget for
and then next year or the following year
[1:14:31] if there's more or less depending on the
participation of that we can adjust
[1:14:36] that. So I think going forward just as a
start let's just budget for two
[1:14:41] conferences per uh per member.
>> I think that's very reasonable. The the
[1:14:46] whole point behind that for the benefit
of our public who's listening and such
[1:14:49] is you have a group now that it's a new
group. They need to learn about the best
[1:14:55] practices of the CVB operation. They
need to learn what their role is. They
[1:15:00] need to understand how hot tax is used
and the benefits of of what we can do
[1:15:05] with it and what we cannot such and
such. Yeah. And so the whole it's it's a
[1:15:10] it's it is it's an educational process
and they need to understand and see how
[1:15:15] John and and his team connect with other
CVB directors and staff across the state
[1:15:21] so that they it we all know what happens
when you go to these conventions. You
[1:15:25] start meeting people. You connect. You
find out what others are doing and we
[1:15:29] learn we learn from each other.
Good
[1:15:33] » point. We should be able to pay for it
very simply because of the ideas that
[1:15:36] each of us bring back to to help our
city.
[1:15:40] » These conferences can be tremendous.
>> Absolutely.
[1:15:45] » Good for us.
>> And the only other thing that I think I
[1:15:50] might add on that was previously
um under Kathy's uh tenure and certainly
[1:15:58] Joseph I might have spoken to you about
this as well. We looked at different
[1:16:02] models for that potential for a
salesperson or to do a contract with
[1:16:08] someone who could help in that capacity.
So, it doesn't have to be necessarily
[1:16:13] one way or the other. It could be a
contracted position um with a firm or
[1:16:18] someone to help with that. I've done
already exploration into that.
[1:16:23] Previously, it was sidebarred for a
while. Um we don't have space for to put
[1:16:29] a person right now. Thank you. You just
brought up one more thing.
[1:16:34] » What
What about taking advantage of the fact
[1:16:39] that we have a we have a really strong
revenue stream that comes into our CVB
[1:16:45] and looking at our budget and perhaps
adjusting some of the expenditure level,
[1:16:50] maybe advertising and some other line
items. And what about setting up a
[1:16:58] visitors center again? I know we had one
at one point, but it was way, you know,
[1:17:02] it was kind of like off the beaten path.
What about having something right out
[1:17:06] here on the freeway? A simple, easy to
get to place that has a storefront and
[1:17:13] create some space for staff and and
maybe even put a uh police police
[1:17:18] substation in it.
>> Guess what, [clears throat]
[1:17:21] » Sam? Sam got an idea like that.
>> We've already steal your fund or
[1:17:25] something.
>> We've already talked about that and
[1:17:27] taking actual steps. All right, I'm Sam.
Could you elaborate a little bit on
[1:17:31] that?
>> Yes. And to dovetail on on that, we are
[1:17:34] looking at suitable areas that could be
a potential site for a visitor center.
[1:17:40] Now, for a visitor center, and and John
will agree with me, it needs to be in
[1:17:44] the heart of the activity.
>> So, yes, the previous or the former
[1:17:49] location where you had it really wasn't
an area where you're going to have a lot
[1:17:52] of traffic. So, we're looking at areas
uh potentially uh Metro Park is also is
[1:17:58] a good area to have that because as that
develops, as more programs uh and and
[1:18:03] events that come to that area, you want
to have that foot traffic u going in and
[1:18:08] out of that visitor center to help
promote our hotels, our restaurants, and
[1:18:13] our shopping. And so, yes, um I think
that would be a potential. Joseph and I
[1:18:18] have have been looking at that and uh
we're also talking with John about that.
[1:18:24] We would need some funding of course to
build out, you know, a space and also
[1:18:30] look at leasing that as well. So, uh
some funding for that would be
[1:18:35] appropriate for this. Absolutely.
[1:18:40] » Great minds think alike.
[1:18:48] So, I can get with Lisa on some on some
numbers on that on some estimates of
[1:18:53] what we're looking at for that. I don't
have any at this moment. Um, you know,
[1:18:59] but I think we can come up with some
pretty reasonable uh numbers on that and
[1:19:05] again, as she indicated, we have the
funding ability to be able to do that.
[1:19:09] » Well, I really appreciate the uh
consideration.
[1:19:21] I just had a question on just one
curious question. What is that? Uh the
[1:19:25] capital project that was 29 299,000.
>> It was technically part of the HVAC
[1:19:32] because they use part of the building.
So we divied up the HVAC based on the
[1:19:36] square footage that each department each
fund uses. So CB, water, sewer. Yeah.
[1:19:43] and then general funds. [snorts]
[1:19:53] » Yeah. So, anything else about Oh, you
want to go back to tourism talk?
[1:19:58] » I do not.
>> Okay. [laughter]
[1:20:00] You know,
>> I think there's a more appropriate place
[1:20:02] for that discussion to occur.
>> Okay. Um, so yeah, other than that, um,
[1:20:06] we'll work on some of those costs for
the the final budget. So like what Sam
[1:20:10] said for like the buildout that doesn't
have to necessarily go against their
[1:20:13] operational budget. The lease would the
lease cost but the actual
[1:20:19] uh buildout could be treated as a
capital project out of their reserve.
[1:20:22] And the CBB fund has like $7 million in
the reserve. So shy of it. So um just to
[1:20:32] let you put in perspective that's kind
of that idea between recurrent and
[1:20:35] non-recurring expenditures.
>> Okay. Um if there's no other questions
[1:20:41] about the um hotel motel fund CPB 20200,
we'll move on. Next is going to be water
[1:20:46] stewer. Um
[1:20:50] » what number is [clears throat]
wise?
[1:20:53] » Uh CBB
>> no that's 45.
[1:20:57] » Uh the [clears throat] next item you're
going to talk about I find it.
[1:21:00] » So it's fund 600 department 50.
>> 50.
[1:21:02] » Yeah. And fund 600 has two departments.
It has the uh department 50 water sewer
[1:21:09] and then it has 51 utility billing.
Um so the only changes I have for water
[1:21:15] sewer at this point are um the medical
and dental insurance differentials.
[1:21:22] That's all I have. Um I am trying to
rework the revenue numbers. Um they do
[1:21:26] have a healthy budget surplus as of now.
We're trying to gauge more of what TAMA
[1:21:30] is going to bring on for additional
revenue. And also we know we know that
[1:21:37] the AMI project which is going to start
soon once that's completed there will be
[1:21:42] revenue that we know that we're losing
because of older meters especially in
[1:21:46] our commercial district. So
it's it's it's kind of a balancing act
[1:21:51] right now trying to figure out um what
those revenues will be but they have a
[1:21:55] healthy um proposed budget surplus so we
should be fine. Um and I'll get those
[1:22:00] revenues updated by the adoption uh
meeting. So [snorts]
[1:22:05] um water and sewer I don't think they
had several changes but mostly it's for
[1:22:10] operational I believe. Um
[1:22:22] oh sorry that's utility billing. I was
like wow they had no change but that's
[1:22:25] utility billing. [laughter]
Um
[1:22:32] so I will make a note um you'll notice
that their um personnel budget had kind
[1:22:38] of increased significantly
um because the p the some field service
[1:22:44] operators are paid out of water sewer
because of meter reads they do more
[1:22:47] water sewer functions they are paid out
of the water sewer fund um and because
[1:22:53] unfortunately the field service position
usually rotates more has turnover more
[1:22:58] than because of the nature of that job.
Um that it was left a position was left
[1:23:03] off of the budget last year. So it's
been approved. It was just we had a
[1:23:08] vacancy for so long that when I did my
calculations, it didn't bring it back
[1:23:12] over. So that's why you see that
differential and that was a mistake I
[1:23:16] made last year.
>> Huh?
[1:23:19] » Don't do that.
>> I know. So um but it's been corrected.
[1:23:23] So that's why you'll see that um larger
increase. It was already approved
[1:23:27] position. It was just because there was
a vacancy at the end of the year. It
[1:23:31] didn't pull over correctly.
>> What about the groundwater reduction
[1:23:34] plan?
>> So that is so that's based on pumpage.
[1:23:38] So if you look at your water bill,
you'll see there's a lonear conservation
[1:23:41] district charge and then there's the
groundwater conservation district charge
[1:23:45] or groundwater
>> conservation
[1:23:47] » conservation, sorry.
um those are um and Joseph could
[1:23:52] probably explain that way better than
me, but we're required to collect those
[1:23:56] to promote conservation. So, the idea is
it's a it's a percentage that goes on
[1:24:01] your um usage. So, as you use more
water, you pay more of that fee to then
[1:24:06] try to promote conservation. Um
so, what we do is typically um that's
[1:24:13] usually a pass through fee. So we have
an expender lineup that matches that and
[1:24:18] it's mostly for the Cahula well down in
Panorama Village.
[1:24:22] » Did I hear you
pass through? So there's a 27 $27,500
[1:24:28] increase but really that's going to
>> it's based on pumpage
[1:24:31] » pass through.
>> Yeah.
[1:24:32] » Okay.
[1:24:37] And that GL for the expenditure really
mostly pays for the cattle well that we
[1:24:42] have with Panorama Village.
that was built in 2014.
[1:24:49] Um there was a big decrease in the water
sewer budget and it was for meter
[1:24:54] replacements because we are doing a huge
meter replacement project. So that did
[1:24:58] reduce that line item by 52,000.
Um those commercial meters are very
[1:25:02] costly
and we have a lot of commercial that
[1:25:07] uses a lot of big meters.
[1:25:11] Trying to find out what you're talking
about. Oh, the 52. Okay.
[1:25:17] » Yeah, that was the
>> 525.
[1:25:19] » Yep.
>> Okay.
[1:25:20] » We reduced what we need to do to replace
because we're doing the larger AMI
[1:25:24] replacement.
[1:25:32] But other than that, other than
um like I noted, there's I think the
[1:25:37] only other larger increase they have is
12,000 and that was for increased sledge
[1:25:42] halls because we're adding you do have
to consider this budget does add on
[1:25:46] another plant and several lift stations
as well with the Tamina community.
[1:25:50] » So your operational costs are going up
as well.
[1:26:01] And those fees that are coming out of
the family community going to be
[1:26:05] included into this
>> the revenues.
[1:26:08] » Mhm.
>> Because they are now.
[1:26:11] » So I did get some good um and that's the
other problem is I try to base it on I
[1:26:16] do get reporting from A1 from what each
consumer uses because we now control
[1:26:21] that CCN. So it's technically our
reporting. Um, but we have to consider
[1:26:26] that those meters are very old and
they're probably not very accurate. So,
[1:26:31] it's hard to gauge what will be a good
revenue number for some of those
[1:26:34] properties.
>> Is there there wasn't a plan to replace
[1:26:38] the meters to
>> Well, that's what we're doing right now.
[1:26:40] Okay.
>> It's just based on their historical bill
[1:26:42] and it's very hard to kind of pinpoint
what
[1:26:44] » Got it. Good.
>> Yeah, that's what I thought I would.
[1:26:47] » Those meters are very old.
>> They're getting new meters. I really
[1:26:51] » they'll be our AMI system. So we'll know
>> that's what I thought.
[1:26:55] » That's included in in phase two, right,
of the Tamina project.
[1:26:58] » The plumbing contract right now
>> paid through with ARPA dollars,
[1:27:02] » right?
>> Which still has to be completed.
[1:27:05] » Yes.
>> Yes.
[1:27:10] » Very aware.
[1:27:13] » Is there any questions about water
sewer? Uh
[1:27:21] Um if there's nothing else and then just
utility billings the other the other
[1:27:25] part of order sewer and there was no
increases other than the salary and
[1:27:30] wage. Um
Tammy does a really good job at
[1:27:34] negotiating prices for bills and
everything else like that. So
[1:27:40] that's about it I got for water sewer
unless anyone else has questions.
[1:27:45] Not until you get to capital projects.
>> I know. Yeah.
[1:27:52] » And then section D is non- major funds.
Those are legitimately
[1:27:57] the off the revenue offset for the
equipment replacement transfers. And
[1:28:01] then the metrop park. Um the PID has no
bearing on any city financials. The the
[1:28:07] city does not pay for anything for the
PID. Doesn't pay for the debt payments.
[1:28:10] It's all from the special assessments on
those properties within the metrop park
[1:28:14] boundaries.
But state legislation requires me to
[1:28:18] adopt a budget for them. So that's what
that is.
[1:28:21] » Even if it has two goose eggs.
>> Yes. So that is one of those things that
[1:28:26] just has to be there. It's a little
confusing, but that's it. Um and then
[1:28:30] the trash um fund is a non- major fund
and it's 140 and it's basically just the
[1:28:36] cost of trash and then the transfer is
the revenue from general fund for the
[1:28:42] the coverage of the trash cost.
That's about it.
[1:28:53] » Okay.
>> Okay.
[1:28:54] » Yeah. If you want to move on to
>> We're going to move on to item number
[1:28:58] nine,
special consideration items.
[1:29:04] [clears throat]
>> So, mayor and council, um, I kind of
[1:29:07] provided a combined document for your
review. Um I believe it was March could
[1:29:12] have been February but we did discuss
[clears throat] the general fund. I did
[1:29:16] a reserve study based on GFOA's best
practices and with in coordination with
[1:29:22] um the developer of that that um um um
trying to think what a good word be
[1:29:29] basically he helped create that
framework um Mr. Kavanagh with GOA. So I
[1:29:34] worked with him and did kind of a rate
um a reserve study and the 180 days as a
[1:29:41] background was um adopted I believe in
2018 um when we had a newer council come
[1:29:46] on board they wanted to make sure that
reserves were um safekept and they were
[1:29:52] used for appropriate reasons. Um so they
put in that 180 days even though the
[1:29:58] GFOA best practice is 90 days at a
minimum. Um, so we do supersede that
[1:30:04] obviously. Um, and we have since about
2018, 2019 [snorts] I believe. So, um,
[1:30:11] that currently puts us about 5.9 million
because it basically takes your average
[1:30:16] daily cost of business and then divides
over 365 days. There is, you also have
[1:30:22] to take consideration if there was a
major revenue shortfall, we're not going
[1:30:26] to continue operations at full capacity.
I think there will be things that will
[1:30:29] have to be looked at and maybe foregone.
Um, you know,
[1:30:35] you're not going to, you know, we may
not, um, do as much travel and training.
[1:30:39] We may not do as much um, we might look
at our contracts and see what we can
[1:30:44] reduce. You're going to go into
negotiation mode and try to figure out
[1:30:47] what is the necessity and what is
something we can bypass for at least a
[1:30:51] year.
>> Um, so that number is based on straight
[1:30:54] up how the budget is. doesn't take
consideration that there will be
[1:30:58] reductions. Um so
you know I think so at the end of the
[1:31:04] study and I'm not going to go through
the whole presentation. I already did
[1:31:06] that once but um it is online on my
financial transparency page the
[1:31:10] presentation if you would like to see
it. Um but it put our risk score at a
[1:31:14] 26. So it basically recommends that we
stay within the 90 to 120day reserve I
[1:31:22] believe. Um,
so if the council and council has the
[1:31:27] right to revise that policy, um, I can
revise it at the direction of what you
[1:31:31] guys prefer. Um, and there are if you
read the policy, there are certain
[1:31:35] things that it can cover such as
non-recurrent items, revenue shortfalls.
[1:31:40] But if you go if you know we and when
you look at our general fund reserve on
[1:31:46] unassigned balance,
there is a cushion. We have about 3
[1:31:50] million that's not restricted
whatsoever. So that money can be used
[1:31:53] for non-recurrent items and we don't
even have to touch our 180 days. So we
[1:31:58] do have a healthy reserve on both sides.
Um so it's really just what you want to
[1:32:03] put as your minimum. So if there was a
larger project or an opportunity that
[1:32:06] came on, you're if you needed to go
lower, you have more flexibility.
[1:32:12] Basically, that would be the situation.
[1:32:18] It doesn't if we lower it doesn't mean
tomorrow you're going to we're going to
[1:32:20] spend it. that that does not mean that
it just gives you more flexibility based
[1:32:24] on our historical. We have seen what our
volatility and our risk is and and
[1:32:30] Charlie brought up during COVID, we were
fortunate still to pretty much still
[1:32:35] come out okay. Like we were very
fortunate our belt
[1:32:39] » a lot to go liquor sales. We'll say that
[laughter]
[1:32:43] » Lisa did well
>> tightening the belt
[1:32:48] » when I was looking at this graph.
>> Uhhuh.
[1:32:50] » And uh the major event issues.
>> Yes. And you could see where when we
[1:32:56] when COVID hit
that dip was not
[1:33:03] as dramatic as I thought it was going to
be.
[1:33:06] » And then the way we bounced back from
that
[1:33:09] » sales tax just
>> it just saved the day.
[1:33:11] » It did. It saved the day. But but it was
the fact that we recovered so quickly
[1:33:17] and that to me and look at Harvey when
Harvey came through how quickly we
[1:33:22] recovered from that.
>> Mhm.
[1:33:24] » And it just in my mind reinforces the
fact that uh yes we absolutely have to
[1:33:30] have a reserve. That is a good business
practice. I think we just probably can
[1:33:37] back off of that a little bit and uh a
90-day would probably be sufficient.
[1:33:44] But not having had a apparently when
council did this,
[1:33:50] there's no real professional risk
analysis that was done. It was an
[1:33:55] arbitrary kind of decision, wasn't it?
>> Yeah, it was just from
[1:33:58] » But that's fine. But now we we we're in
a situation today where we you know we
[1:34:02] had to raise taxes last year. We're
looking at what our needs are going to
[1:34:06] be for the future. If we free up some of
that for the future and classify it the
[1:34:14] way the council thinks it should be,
whether it be, you know, committed to
[1:34:17] certain funding type activities.
I'm not suggesting that we just
[1:34:22] unclassify it and leave it there as but
maybe it could some of that could go
[1:34:26] into available cash for the future. And
[laughter] at any rate I I personally
[1:34:32] feel like 90 days is a pretty good
number.
[1:34:39] » My question is what does it cost us
based on you know what it has maybe over
[1:34:45] the last five years? How much have we
had to put into the reserve to keep it
[1:34:51] at that 180?
>> It just varies on your budget increase
[1:34:54] every year. So, usually I think it
varies about 100,000 um we throw in
[1:34:58] there every year give or take.
>> It's self supporting basically. Joe, I'm
[1:35:04] sorry.
>> It's self-supporting basically. 100,000
[1:35:07] 90,000.
>> It just depends on what your
[1:35:09] expenditures are that year divide by you
know.
[1:35:12] » Yeah. So wherever your So like our
expenditures don't go up a whole lot,
[1:35:16] right? They go up about 3% 4%.
>> That's money we didn't spend.
[1:35:20] » That's money we did not spend.
>> And we've been very fortunate the last
[1:35:25] couple years uh with interest rates. I
know it it hurts most of the world, but
[1:35:31] we've been very um beneficial of
interest rates, but I can't bank on
[1:35:36] interest rates, so I can't use as a main
revenue source because those can change
[1:35:39] overnight.
>> No. [laughter] Okay. So, but that that
[1:35:42] has added a lot to our reserve amount as
well is that additional revenue that we
[1:35:46] don't
>> you can't really budget for interest. I
[1:35:48] put a little bit in there. Yeah.
>> But you just never know what's going to
[1:35:51] happen with interest rates.
>> Yeah. Unlike
[1:35:54] » do we have Sorry. Do we have an official
austerity plan already? Have we already
[1:35:59] looked in case something happens?
>> Like a like a um level of service plan
[1:36:05] basically if there's a
>> minimum level of service plan already.
[1:36:08] So I so obviously there is priorities
that we will you know personnel is going
[1:36:15] to be our priority that to retain and
retain our service. Majority of our
[1:36:19] personnel is PD so that would be you
know that's going to be our first
[1:36:23] priority. Second priorities are going to
be contracts that we have to commit to
[1:36:27] and that are you we need to do for cost
of business. And then usually the other
[1:36:32] things are going to be like your office
supplies your travel and training. those
[1:36:34] things are going to be the ones that get
more chopped than not. Office equipment,
[1:36:39] um stuff like that. Um we'll probably if
a project hasn't started, we might try
[1:36:44] to postpone that, you know, just to try
to keep some revenue um unallocated at
[1:36:50] that point.
>> I'm not familiar with municipal
[1:36:54] strategic plans, but could that be
covered in [clears throat] in as part of
[1:36:59] the strategy?
>> U expense.
[1:37:02] » Yeah.
>> Yeah.
[1:37:04] Absolutely. Yeah.
>> Yeah. How much money we can use and
[1:37:08] how
>> we don't have a policy written written
[1:37:12] out like but we have a good plan of what
>> a priority earnest. You know what I
[1:37:17] mean? But it's not etched in stone.
>> It also depends on the situation as
[1:37:23] well. You don't have one situation
that's going to umbrella everything. So
[1:37:27] depending on what what it is that we run
into, we have to tailor our operations
[1:37:32] based on that. exactly why there isn't
>> like CO would probably be a good
[1:37:36] example. Um during CO um obviously there
wasn't much transin because everything
[1:37:40] was shut down. So that saved some money
there. Um we also um you know not a lot
[1:37:46] of people were out and about so we saved
fuel costs you know so there's things
[1:37:49] that happened because
there wasn't you know there weren't as
[1:37:53] many people out and about so PE wasn't
responding to crashes and
[1:37:57] » most of it was rain and wind damage.
>> Yeah. So, um, yeah. So, the situational
[1:38:04] is a good reason. Yeah.
[1:38:09] And if we do have an emergency like
Harvey was a one of our biggest ones
[1:38:14] because it shut down and Barrel was our
last one because it shut down. Shannido
[1:38:18] was one of the last areas to get an
electricity I think.
[1:38:21] » Yeah. Barrel.
>> Um, so um, you know, you lost a week of
[1:38:26] revenue retail sales. The only benefit
of we've seen is when you have a natural
[1:38:31] disaster, they call it the boom. So,
usually you'll have a disaster and then
[1:38:35] the next month people have to replace
beds, they have to replace um groceries,
[1:38:40] you know, so you'll see a mass influx of
sales tax the month following,
[1:38:44] especially during a flood event in
Southeast Texas. If your house gets
[1:38:48] flooded, Home Depot is going to be
making some profits. Um U Sam's Club,
[1:38:53] same thing, too. you know, you'll see
those those retailers pick up a lot
[1:38:57] [snorts] of revenue the month after a
natural disaster. Um, so it's all
[1:39:02] situational based. It's a little hard to
kind of gauge, but the priority has
[1:39:07] always been keep personnel level and
keep service level, but let's adjust
[1:39:12] what we can to offset that, you know,
economic differential.
[1:39:18] Well, I'd like to advi propose that we
revise our reserve policy and that we
[1:39:23] ask our city administrator to
make a recommendation to the council on
[1:39:30] the number of days.
[1:39:34] » Yeah.
>> Have his input on here as well because
[1:39:37] » yeah, we'll put this on a future agenda
then
[1:39:40] » we can get it on to the 20 I would
prefer to get it on to the next the
[1:39:43] 26th.
>> Yeah. See it as soon as possible. we can
[1:39:46] turn that around pretty quick.
>> Um I I would also recommend that and
[1:39:51] once we look at reducing that
>> that day coverage, we can also give some
[1:39:57] recommendations on what we could
potentially apply those savings to.
[1:40:02] » Whether it be
>> all one-time expenses or we sock away
[1:40:06] some for other projects or
infrastructure projects that may come up
[1:40:11] that we're looking at down the road. And
I know Joseph has a whole bunch of them
[1:40:16] that we could probably apply to as well,
>> right? I think it's great.
[1:40:20] » Perfect.
>> Do that then.
[1:40:22] » It's got a whole 10-year plan.
>> Yeah, [laughter]
[1:40:25] » he knows how to spend it.
>> 10 years worth,
[1:40:29] » but he plans it well.
>> Yes, he does.
[1:40:33] » All right. Thank you, Lisa.
[1:40:44] The next thing is going to be court
study. So, I'll let Jackie take it away.
[1:40:50] Yeah. So, mayor and council, this came
up as a u an item presented by council
[1:40:55] to take a look at could there be a
potential revenue source to the city if
[1:41:00] our Shannidoa officers were to file
their tickets uh with our court versus
[1:41:05] their current uh practice and procedure
of filing it with McGomery County
[1:41:09] Precinct 3. Um, and so what we looked at
is both the what would be our necessary
[1:41:16] budget impact and budget expenses
compared to what the revenue potential
[1:41:20] could be um with those tickets. And so
just a a high breakdown what was
[1:41:27] included in the uh what Lisa sent in the
special consideration is to reestablish
[1:41:33] a municipal court here. we would have to
reallocate some funds from the current
[1:41:38] community development uh department
which would be salary and wages uh and
[1:41:43] then add some additional funds for
operating expenses contract services and
[1:41:47] then some initial startup costs. That
court budget would be roughly $135,696.
[1:41:56] uh you'll see that breakdown the
reallocation from community development
[1:42:00] the existing court budget to the fiscy
year impact this year of the 57
[1:42:06] uh $5925
the offset of that the revenue side the
[1:42:11] projected revenue side we looked at the
uh number of
[1:42:17] traffic violations identified within the
police department for the 25 calendar
[1:42:22] year uh which was 5,926
traffic violations, which I used a
[1:42:30] matrix from our local uh surrounding
courts to determine
[1:42:34] those dispositions. When you look at a
court ticket, you've got somebody can
[1:42:39] just choose to pay in full, close it
out. There are certain violations that
[1:42:42] have administrative fees that can then
close it out at a reduced rate. Um or
[1:42:47] those that are either dismissed by the
judge, deferred, appealed, those those
[1:42:52] types of activities. And so based on
those uh historic disposition patterns
[1:42:56] from our local courts, we could
approximate that with the number of
[1:43:00] citations that were issued from that
5,926
[1:43:05] violations
uh a potential revenue stream of 50,000.
[1:43:09] And so basically after comparing the
budget impact and the budget needs with
[1:43:18] the operations of the police department
currently is not um
[1:43:24] uh
it's not financially feasible at this
[1:43:29] point in time. Um we chief Dunlap did
look at the 26 numbers and they're
[1:43:34] trending just about the same as the 25
numbers. Um, and we talked about just
[1:43:38] continuing to monitor that to see if
there is in the future a potential that
[1:43:44] those revenues could could be there for
the city. Um, but at this point in time,
[1:43:49] » not the case.
[1:43:54] » You never mentioned warrants FTAs for
>> correct. So it's
[1:43:59] » that kills the police department.
>> It does. So right. So there is um and a
[1:44:05] part of that technology fee is there are
um there are certain programs
[1:44:09] [clears throat] and softwares that you
enroll on that do notify either our
[1:44:12] department or other departments that are
prescribed to it to those warrants. Um
[1:44:16] service of those warrants whether it's
even just from the the court staff side
[1:44:20] needing officers signature to execute
summons those kind of things but also
[1:44:25] the transportation and and the issuance
and the handling of those warrants.
[1:44:29] Right.
[1:44:33] was a big annoyance to the residents who
I I got called up here I think about
[1:44:37] twice a year to serve on the court and I
hate it all everybody I know hated
[1:44:42] coming down here for that
>> and uh it's a it irritates everybody
[1:44:46] also gives you the it gives the the
image in in the community that how
[1:44:52] » how bad we are how bad our police force
is.
[1:44:55] » Yeah,
>> I I did include that as part of the the
[1:44:58] analysis too. Um I I did I I did I was
curious about what that looked like as
[1:45:02] far as jury selections with our
residents and um surprising to me
[1:45:07] Oakidge only had a couple jury trials
scheduled. So I don't know if it's and
[1:45:11] and that was a primary factor in when I
looked at this is what are their their
[1:45:15] dispositions look like because we would
maybe not see the same type
[1:45:19] [clears throat] of violations but the
same type of violations between you know
[1:45:22] this this immediate area. Um so
surprisingly lower than I expected on
[1:45:27] that but yes you are correct. If we did
need a jury pool, it would be our
[1:45:30] » We don't have that many people in this
community to go to those those meetings.
[1:45:34] And what was it? Every Tuesday or so,
every Wednesday, you would have the
[1:45:38] court.
>> They were doing court twice a month. Um
[1:45:40] and I think that's what Oakidge does. I
would anticipate uh I I did budget for
[1:45:45] two court settings
um a month, but that would just depend
[1:45:50] on on docket load and sizes, too.
[1:45:56] » I'm not falling.
It doesn't sound like it's feasible
[1:46:01] thing to do.
[1:46:07] All right.
Can municipalities
[1:46:11] share court facilities and split costs
and split revenue?
[1:46:16] » I think it you run into an issue with
the jurisdiction overlapping. Um our we
[1:46:22] I don't want to say we share judge and
prosecutor services. you're talking
[1:46:25] about um could we could we pair up for
jury trials and and stuff like that if
[1:46:31] we were to have those? You can. I I do
see like um what happens is
[1:46:36] um uh for Huntsville example and only
reason I know this is because I was
[1:46:39] actually called for jury selection um
for on a municipal court. [snorts]
[1:46:43] They will they will pile a court docket
for just jury trials. They will select
[1:46:47] one jury and that jury will try all two,
three, four cases. So you're not
[1:46:52] consistently compiling, you're not
you're not having to pull for one
[1:46:56] setting per one citation.
>> Um so that that practice may slim that
[1:47:01] down a little bit, but again, you're
still
[1:47:04] » reaching out to the community, the local
community to to compile the jury. Do we
[1:47:09] do we have any obligations financially
to the county
[1:47:14] » for for administering our
>> No, they they uh their financial gain is
[1:47:20] by the disposition of those cases that
are filed over there.
[1:47:29] » Thank you, Jackie. Thank you.
[1:47:34] » We're going to move on to the strategic
plan study.
[1:47:43] I'll take that one, mayor.
>> Okay. So, this was a item that I put on
[1:47:48] and I believe this is a uh strategic
plan for the city gives us a roadmap of
[1:47:54] where who we want to be, what our
identity is, and shared visions from not
[1:47:59] only the council but also staff. So, we
put this shared vision together. It
[1:48:03] gives us a road map, a playbook of where
we want to be, short-term and long-term
[1:48:07] goals. Usually, you look at a three to
five year strategic plan. Now, this plan
[1:48:12] needs to also be flexible because we
know that there can be turnover on
[1:48:16] council as well. But what what's good
about it is it gives us a a scoring
[1:48:21] grade book of where we're going to be in
that that 3 to 5 year period. And I know
[1:48:26] the council here has a lot of great
ideas. We have a lot of visions. And I
[1:48:29] think if we pull all those visions
together and align them in a strategic
[1:48:34] way, we can accomplish those goals
together. And so what I've put together
[1:48:39] is an estimate of around 60,000 to go
out for proposals for us to have a
[1:48:43] strategic plan. The strategic plan will
also tie into our budget process. So
[1:48:48] whatever it is that we determine is our
initiatives for strategic plan, we will
[1:48:53] need to budget for that too. So we would
do this strategic plan before the budget
[1:48:58] process starts so that we can align that
up. So when you're while when we're here
[1:49:03] next year at the same time, the items
that we're bringing for you will be tied
[1:49:07] to the strategic plan.
>> So happy to answer any questions you may
[1:49:11] have on that. Well, sure. I got to jump
in here because in, as you all know,
[1:49:19] sat on his side of the
the bench when it came to public
[1:49:24] administration and and all my
organizations did this.
[1:49:28] This is actually fun to go through for a
council to go through a strategic
[1:49:33] planning session with staff.
You get together, you you do a retreat,
[1:49:40] you spend time
establishing what your vision is, what
[1:49:45] your mission is going to be. You
identify those things. You set goals.
[1:49:49] Usually, I've seen, I think, anywhere
from six to eight major goals will
[1:49:54] evolve. They'll they'll come out of this
conversation.
[1:49:58] um goals about staff, goals about public
works, goals about parks, and it just
[1:50:04] goes on. And just as as uh Sam just
said, out of that, you'll have a set of
[1:50:12] strategies
and these are your budget tools. They're
[1:50:18] your triggers. You want to accomplish
this. Here's your strategy. What's the
[1:50:22] cost associated with that? And when the
councils adopt these strategic plans,
[1:50:27] they now have hooks that they can hang
their hat on when they make a decision
[1:50:33] about they want to spend on X to
accomplish this. Whoa, it's in this
[1:50:37] routine plan. It really works well with
the public. The public perception of the
[1:50:42] fact that hey, these people put a plan
together. We can read it's very
[1:50:46] transparent. It's out there. It's of
course with the internet and I want to
[1:50:49] say it's so easy for them to see. and
you and you the this is totally
[1:50:54] different. You've heard of terms like
comprehensive plans and such.
[1:50:58] That's not what this is. This is
something that uh we used a term uh Joe
[1:51:04] uh Sam is a evergreen.
>> Yes.
[1:51:06] » Right. Meaning that it evolves. It
changes with the seasons. Whatever
[1:51:12] seasons we might be in. So I I'm so
excited that you're going to do this.
[1:51:17] Thank you.
[1:51:20] Yeah, something different because we did
have a we do have a 10-year plan. I know
[1:51:26] we we went over that.
>> You have a comprehensive plan.
[1:51:29] » Comprehensive plan. A comprehensive plan
is a big vision required by statute.
[1:51:33] Basically, states require it. You know,
how are you going to deal with these
[1:51:36] major projects, mobility, all of that
kind of stuff.
[1:51:39] » This is how you're going to operate.
>> It's like a therap.
[1:51:45] » Yeah. And and typically you want to try
to tie in some of those plans, your
[1:51:49] comprehensive plans, yes, your uh say
water and sewer studies as well, your
[1:51:54] parks master plan that also ties into
your strategic plan so that you're
[1:51:58] meeting those goals on all areas of the
city. It gives us purpose is what it
[1:52:03] does.
>> Yeah,
[1:52:07] » sounds like a good idea.
>> Any other questions? I just uh more of I
[1:52:11] guess I'm still trying to I've been
through different things of this and so
[1:52:15] the definitively
uh depending on who you're talking to,
[1:52:19] what industry you're talking to, haven't
been haven't done that here in this
[1:52:24] industry and so I'm just trying to find
out what's what's this kind of scope,
[1:52:29] you know, the tangible scope uh that you
can grab on to say this is, you know,
[1:52:36] this is the vision of, you know, looking
at what we want to do for the vision
[1:52:42] that we see. So there there has to be so
many different types of tangibles and
[1:52:47] you know that's so I guess I'm looking
at that looking for definitive
[1:52:52] » correct. You want to have obtainable
goals. So like any goals that you set
[1:52:57] forward for anything personal or
business you want to make sure they're
[1:53:01] achievable and that you're capable of
doing those. You don't want to set a
[1:53:05] goal that's not achievable. And it comes
from the ideas that we put together, we
[1:53:10] brainstorm together. It could be public
safety, it could be quality of life, um,
[1:53:15] and so forth. And so those are the
things that we don't know yet until we
[1:53:19] get into a room together and start
identifying
[1:53:22] » what it is that we want Shannondoa to
be. And a component of that also is to
[1:53:28] get resident feedback on that as well.
>> Yeah, absolutely.
[1:53:33] 100%.
[1:53:37] » Good.
>> So, this item is one of those items
[1:53:40] that's like a non-recurring item that
can be funded out of the available cash.
[1:53:43] It doesn't have to go against your tax
rate operational budget. So, that's this
[1:53:48] is kind of a good example going forward
of what can you know?
[1:53:51] » Yeah,
>> this in capital projects.
[1:53:53] » Um,
>> good. So, is there consensus to move
[1:53:57] forward with this item?
>> I certainly in support of it. Yeah.
[1:54:01] » Okay.
>> Yes. and and Joe uh and everybody in
[1:54:04] here. There's a couple places you can go
uh go to the Woodlands Township,
[1:54:12] look for look at their strategic plan.
You'll you'll get immediately you it'll
[1:54:16] you'll understand it. Or go to uh um uh
oh just just let me there's a couple of
[1:54:24] other towns up in Dallas area that are
have some really good ones too.
[1:54:28] » I think McKini has a good one. Yeah,
Mckenn's
[1:54:32] got a McKenna's got a great strategic
plan.
[1:54:34] » I I can send the council some examples
links to cities that have strategic
[1:54:39] plans. You can get an idea what we're
looking at.
[1:54:42] » And also with the strategic plan, my
department can finally get the best
[1:54:46] budget award with GFO. You do [laughter]
need a strategic plan.
[1:54:49] » That's right.
>> So it [clears throat] would go into
[1:54:52] other good things. So [snorts] um so I
will put 60,000 as the cap. Um, and
[1:54:59] we'll see what the bids come in as and
then if there's additional funding
[1:55:01] needed, we'll come back at that time
>> and we can always negotiate.
[1:55:07] » Okay. Um,
>> so we'll segue to CBP.
[1:55:10] » Yeah. So, I don't have an actual that
was not an um that was kind of [snorts]
[1:55:14] um after we started talking, CBB would
have its own strategic plan because
[1:55:18] obviously it's different than a city
strategic plan and I'll let Sam kind of
[1:55:21] elaborate.
>> Correct. and and really same type of
[1:55:24] vision uh for the tourism is to have a
strategic plan for the board and for
[1:55:32] staff to understand what what what it is
we want to do and what is our strategic
[1:55:38] planning for tourism and for our CVB
department. And so by having a strategic
[1:55:44] plan, same idea, what is our identity?
What do we want to be? What is our
[1:55:48] purpose and goals? And I think that is
also needed for that uh particular area
[1:55:53] as well. Give us some guidance, give us
a roadmap.
[1:55:57] » Right. So I think uh we'll have that
conversation in our next uh board
[1:56:04] meeting. Uh I suspect that uh you'll
have a consensus from that group as
[1:56:09] well. So might as well go ahead and move
forward.
[1:56:11] » So put please go the same amount.
>> Yes, I I'd say the same amount.
[1:56:18] That would be totally off CB funds, not
the general fund.
[1:56:23] » Okay. Um and then the last um study
under special consideration studies um
[1:56:29] we'll get through this and then we can
take a break is the salary and comp
[1:56:32] study request. Um and that's also a SAM
request.
[1:56:37] » Correct. So one of the items I' I've
also want to look at is you know we
[1:56:42] talked a lot about pay parody for the
police department. I think we should
[1:56:46] also look at our compensation for the
other side of the house, non-public
[1:56:52] safety. Um, we're a unique city. We have
uh a small department, but we have many
[1:56:58] hats that everybody wears. So, there's a
value to that. And um our our employees
[1:57:05] are very marketable that way. And as we
move forward as a city, we need to be
[1:57:10] able to have competitive rates so that
we can retain and also recruit uh the
[1:57:17] best um team members so that our city
can continue to function. Um give a good
[1:57:23] example and you know when we did the
tours around the city and we talked
[1:57:27] about our infrastructure, our public
works department, you know that group
[1:57:32] wears many hat wears many hats. They're
dual certified. Most cities don't
[1:57:37] operate that way in [snorts] public
works. So, they're very marketable. They
[1:57:41] can go to a private utility somewhere
and make more money or have better
[1:57:47] opportunities. We want to keep that. We
have very talented and very skilled uh
[1:57:52] public works uh employees. And that's
just one example. You can go around the
[1:57:56] city, finance department, you know,
community development, CVB, you know,
[1:58:04] everywhere around the city, we have that
same same type of mentality. We we want
[1:58:08] to keep and retain that. So, I think a
compensation study is needed to see
[1:58:13] where we're at. And what a compensation
study does is looks at your particular
[1:58:20] your particular operations,
what your pay rates, what your
[1:58:26] compensation, your benefits packages are
compared to others around your area. We
[1:58:31] compete with large cities around their
area. We compete with the Woodlands
[1:58:36] Township, city of Tombball, city of
Conroe. You look at a 30 mile radius,
[1:58:40] those are the cities that we're
competing against. We're a small city,
[1:58:44] so we want to be able to be competitive.
We don't have to be the highest, but we
[1:58:48] can be competitive and we need to
evaluate that. The study could indicate
[1:58:53] that some areas were pretty good and it
could say also that some areas we need
[1:58:59] to improve a little bit. And so the idea
of a compensation study is to bring
[1:59:04] someone in from an outside and take a
look at that and study that for us and
[1:59:08] maybe also create some policies with for
us too that can help us uh be
[1:59:12] competitive as well. So my uh cost
estimate for that would be around 50,000
[1:59:18] to bring in a consultant to be able to
do that.
[1:59:22] Happy to answer any questions you may
have. that can be split between CBB,
[1:59:26] water, sewer, and finance based on and
I'll do it based on probably a current
[1:59:30] payroll share
like the breakout between the cost of
[1:59:35] those contracts.
[1:59:39] » Good idea.
>> Yeah,
[1:59:40] » I won't have those numbers right now.
I'll bring them back.
[1:59:45] » That'll take me a minute. But those
that's one of those ones that could be
[1:59:49] split. The strategic plan also with
water sewer can be split.
[1:59:55] » Any additional questions on this?
>> Just remember, Charlie, that might
[1:59:59] increase that 3%.
[2:00:03] » All right, might reduce it. [laughter]
>> All right, 7:00.
[2:00:09] » Let's take a 10 break.
>> We just have a consensus, right, for
[2:00:12] this godd? Yes.
>> Yes. Okay,
[2:00:15] » let's take a 10-minute break.
[2:00:36] How's that fire?
[2:01:01] I try to make it.
>> I
[2:01:11] break it down. When we do,
>> you know,
[2:01:20] You can't go wrong.
[2:01:35] They're
[2:01:44] everywhere.
[2:02:26] I saw your thing.
[2:02:52] Charlie.
[2:03:49] the people that I
haven't
[2:04:05] sad because
my own day.
[2:04:20] I was in combat.
[2:04:40] You go to Fortnite.
[2:05:03] » Yeah.
[2:05:12] I got this online.
[2:05:36] Yes.
[2:05:39] » Always.
>> Always.
[2:05:43] » Always.
[2:05:59] It's just
[2:06:37] short not much.
[2:06:50] But it's
[2:07:04] » itever
[2:07:34] watching the music.
[2:07:39] » Yeah.
[2:07:52] Did he first like you need a little pick
me up?
[2:08:14] for you to take back with you.
[2:08:28] » Oh my god.
[2:08:44] I'll bring
[2:09:07] There's
[2:09:21] back and forth.
[2:09:30] I mean,
[2:10:16] I thought it was
[2:10:21] too many.
[2:10:26] Oh, she is so
[2:11:12] figure out what's
[2:11:22] Good morning.
[2:12:05] Let's uh resume a discussion, a budget
discussion.
[2:12:10] Lisa.
>> Yes. So, we are on personnel items of
[2:12:13] the special consideration items. Um, the
only new personnel request that we have
[2:12:19] this year is for a water and sewer
operator. Um, and I'll let Rall um
[2:12:25] introduce that item.
>> Thank you, Lisa. So, yeah, this is the
[2:12:31] recommended position for a new operator.
As you all know, we're going to be
[2:12:35] adding Tamina community which is
includes four live stations. uh new
[2:12:40] water plant and also we just had the uh
recent expansion of our wastewater
[2:12:44] treatment plant. So uh our operator is
running everywhere right now. They're
[2:12:50] going to every site every day and uh
they're working a lot of hours. So it's
[2:12:55] they're we're burning them right now and
with this additions we definitely need
[2:12:59] this new position open. Um it's hardly
needed. So um
[2:13:05] » can you pull that mic closer to
>> Yes.
[2:13:08] Uh so Lisa put in there uh the average
cost complete cost for a new operator
[2:13:15] position. This is for uh DD license
wastewater d water and a total of pretty
[2:13:22] much $80,000 for a new operator. That's
what the cost of CD for any operator. So
[2:13:27] we have to answer any questions on this.
>> How how difficult will it be to recruit?
[2:13:33] So actually we already have the position
open on our website.
[2:13:38] » We wanted to get a um list of operators
that already applying. So as soon as
[2:13:44] this is approved, I can get already have
a list so of operators available. I
[2:13:48] already have a a few um
uh resumes in my in my office uh that I
[2:13:56] contact them. I told them this is on the
budget. hopefully it gets approved so I
[2:14:00] can uh contact them for a final
interview.
[2:14:06] » Is is it getting harder
>> to find these qualified people?
[2:14:10] » It is getting harder and also there's I
call them wolves trying to steal them
[2:14:16] from me.
>> Oh yeah.
[2:14:18] » And you know that's that's what the
paper I mean paper for everybody is very
[2:14:23] highly needed.
>> Yeah.
[2:14:25] » Yeah. I think if you're carrying
multiple certifications Yeah. we're
[2:14:29] making our people too marketable.
>> Yeah. [laughter]
[2:14:33] » Yeah. Yeah. And it's private companies
as well, not just other cities are uh in
[2:14:38] need of operators.
>> Yeah. and uh they they give him these
[2:14:42] contracts that are uh very attractive on
the on the hourly base and they
[2:14:49] sometimes young operators
um go for that because you know uh they
[2:14:55] don't look at all the benefits that CD
provides and but they look at the high
[2:15:00] pay job right away and we we need to
compete with that and we're doing a good
[2:15:04] job. Uh this is the first step on on the
on this.
[2:15:07] » Do we pay for certifications? We do.
>> Do we ever have we ever or can we
[2:15:13] honestly we did this and when I was in
telecommunications when we put people
[2:15:18] through certifications that we had them
sign a document that they're going to be
[2:15:23] around for at least a certain amount of
time. I didn't know if that's
[2:15:30] you know you can do it or not.
[clears throat] And uh it just
[2:15:35] » Texas is a right to work state. So
>> yeah a little hard. Yeah.
[2:15:39] » Very don't hold water.
>> Yeah. Test it.
[2:15:43] » Yeah.
>> You say it wouldn't hold water.
[2:15:46] » It wouldn't hold water.
>> Yeah.
[2:15:48] » What we spend on those certifications is
not much. Um so it's definitely I don't
[2:15:53] I don't want to put that in a contract
that will avoid
[2:15:58] » because of that.
>> But how's the turnover in that that side
[2:16:03] of the engineering
>> for operators in specific? I I was an
[2:16:07] operating engineer in New York for 33
years, but I was on the hoisting and
[2:16:12] portable side, not stationary side.
>> This is what you're talking about is a
[2:16:16] stationary engine.
>> Yes. I mean, you've all been on our
[2:16:19] wastewater treatment plan. It's not the
best smell in the world. It's a hard job
[2:16:24] as, you know, it's a, you know, you're
in the sun the whole time. You uh
[2:16:28] » But you know that going in.
>> Yes. Yeah. But sometimes it gets to
[2:16:33] people at certain point that they cannot
take it anymore. So, you know, you you
[2:16:37] need to take care of them to to keep
them. And we've been doing a good job. I
[2:16:41] mean, uh we've had a good leadership
with Joseph. I'm trying to continue that
[2:16:44] as well. Uh earning their trust and uh
trying to have the best public works
[2:16:50] department in this in the state. So, and
and Charlie, specifically to your to
[2:16:55] your question, if you recall, this
probably about two or three years ago,
[2:16:59] we almost lost a couple of operators
because they were being head-hunted by
[2:17:02] another firm and
>> and we did a quick evaluation of
[2:17:06] salaries and got them up a little more
competitive. Um, so we've been able to
[2:17:11] retain them with council's help to make
sure that they're being paid
[2:17:14] competitively. Um but so we've been able
to keep a pretty good um handle on our
[2:17:22] operators and the nice thing we have is
three of our four operators started as
[2:17:27] field service reps got their
certifications and then promoted up into
[2:17:31] that position. We were able to promote
that from within. So that's helped
[2:17:35] maintain some of that loyalty as well.
>> But you're looking right now for someone
[2:17:38] that is an operator that's going to step
into this.
[2:17:41] » Yes, we Yes, we'll need someone to step
into it. We we don't have anyone in the
[2:17:45] field service rep ready to to move up
move up.
[2:17:48] » Yeah, you probably should have already
had this person
[2:17:52] » in place, you know, in reality because
of the amount of work that they those
[2:17:58] guys do,
>> right? That there's so many programs,
[2:18:02] you know, fog ordinance, backflow
prevention, inspections, there's so many
[2:18:06] programs that just fall by the wayside
because they're important, but they're
[2:18:10] not critical. And right now we just have
to focus on the critical.
[2:18:15] » R, you said you want to have the best
public works department in the state.
[2:18:19] » That sounds like a goal in a strategic
plan.
[2:18:25] » That might be an idea.
>> And Charlie, uh, with other cities that
[2:18:28] I've worked with, it's probably one of
the more higher
[2:18:32] rated turnover areas. You're looking at
at least at least 50% in other cities
[2:18:37] that I've worked in. And it's just the
nature of the job. It's It's hard hard
[2:18:42] to recruit and it's hard to keep.
[snorts]
[2:18:45] » Well, that brings up uh at the top the
leader there. You've got the leader is a
[2:18:50] highly certified, highly highly
soughtafter. I think I think he's
[2:18:54] nearing retirement. Do we have a
succession plan?
[2:18:58] » I have some ideas on that. Yes.
>> We're training and
[2:19:02] training two of our best operators right
now to take that role. Both.
[2:19:08] » Good.
>> Yeah. And and I was not kidding on the
[2:19:11] on the best public course department in
the state. Um I will be applying to TML
[2:19:16] to get that award.
>> That's there you go. Awesome.
[2:19:21] » There you go. [clears throat]
[2:19:26] » Pride ourselves and their employees take
care of them.
[2:19:29] » Yes, sir.
>> Whatever their their job is.
[2:19:35] » And I will rework these numbers. This is
a quick estimate, but I'll make sure
[2:19:39] that I encompassed all the costs that
you know I just wanted to make get a
[2:19:43] estimate number into this um document.
[snorts] So that'll be added to the
[2:19:47] summary change sheet if you guys by
consensus their budget can handle
[2:19:52] another operator their operational
budget at this point. Um so if I can
[2:19:56] just get consensus if we want to add
this position it's water sewer fund
[2:20:00] totally.
>> Oh I don't think choice.
[2:20:03] » Okay.
All right. So, I will add that.
[2:20:07] » Is is it appropriate for me to just say
what a pleasure it is to work among a
[2:20:12] group of people who aren't yelling and
screaming at each other? I
[2:20:15] » think thank you guys. All of you.
>> I keep the jersey low.
[2:20:20] [laughter]
>> Wasn't always that way. She keeps the
[2:20:23] jersey low.
>> But no, you're good.
[2:20:26] » Thank you for that. No,
>> we are a good team. Um, if I ask them to
[2:20:30] find a different alternate or bring me
something different, no one fights me to
[2:20:36] my face.
>> But [laughter]
[2:20:38] I think but we're really good. We work
well together.
[2:20:42] » I think the the reason we work that way,
uh, Ernie is is because we have a
[2:20:49] tremendous staff.
>> Yeah. who really
[2:20:54] looks out for us for us and provides all
the information and all everything we
[2:21:00] need to make the the right decision and
I think that uh logically that's that's
[2:21:06] what we all should be thinking about you
know does this like Charlie always says
[2:21:10] how does this benefit Shannondoa we want
to do whatever it takes to benefit our
[2:21:16] residents and our community and and as
long as we keep that as as the main
[2:21:21] focus focus.
>> Look, I it's I came here worn out today.
[2:21:26] It's been a very intense month for me.
Um, but all I want to do now is smile
[2:21:30] because I know that my family is being
taken care of here and I really
[2:21:35] appreciate all of you guys. All of you.
I really do.
[2:21:38] » Thank you.
>> Thank you.
[2:21:44] Okay. So, the next item under the
personnel special consideration um last
[2:21:49] year, as you guys recall, um the um
Harris County, McGomery County, and
[2:21:55] Houston PD, um pretty much proposed pay
parody um for your plans that were
[2:22:02] pretty sticker shock um to most of us.
Um and we knew because we had um a
[2:22:09] vacancy of I believe five officers,
Troy, at that time period. Um which five
[2:22:14] is a lot for our agency um of like 30.
So um we needed to act um to get those
[2:22:23] positions filled and attracted with that
pay parody. Um last year, as you recall,
[2:22:29] it was a pretty significant hit. Um and
we were very fortunate that we had that
[2:22:34] unused increment with the tax rate to be
able to accomplish that pay parody. Um
[2:22:39] so this year though um Chief Dunlap did
rework some of the numbers. It's not the
[2:22:46] proposal is not as high as it was last
for what we anticipated for year two of
[2:22:50] pay discussion. Um so that is in this
chart right here. Last year we had
[2:22:57] estimated the year two would have added
about 470,000 to this operating budget.
[2:23:02] Um the numbers that have been reworked
will only if approved add 137 138,000
[2:23:09] estimated um to our budget. There is no
we because we operate on an annual
[2:23:16] budget we can't commit funds for future
years on personnel and stuff like you
[2:23:21] know for stuff like these. So that's why
this year two discussion is coming back.
[2:23:27] It does not mean that we need to approve
it. It does it could be delayed. It
[2:23:31] could be looked at again next year. It's
just because we had presented as a
[2:23:35] four-year plan. We're bringing back a
hypothetical year two to you for
[2:23:39] discussion only. And if you wanted to
pursue that, we can add that into the
[2:23:44] budget. Um but I will let Chief Dunlap
kind of answer any questions. Um,
[2:23:51] but it basically kind of just increased
every position by about a $167 an hour.
[2:23:57] Um, and that's pretty much if you looked
at that second page that kind of breaks
[2:24:02] out the difference between the two
scales, you'll see that for pretty much
[2:24:05] every step in every scale.
[2:24:10] So, if you recall, um, McGomery County,
their first year of the pay parody in
[2:24:18] 2026, they were going to 70,900.
Of course, we went to 75 to stay above
[2:24:26] that and be competitive. Um this year
the the projected um starting pay would
[2:24:34] be 81,900
but
[2:24:39] um we don't know what McGomery County is
going to do at this point in time. I do
[2:24:44] know that Conro has uh I don't I'm sure
y'all seen the headlines that Conro is
[2:24:49] going for 20%. So, uh, what that's going
to equate to is this 81 the second year
[2:24:57] of the the pay parody. So, it'll be
>> pay it'll be the 81. Uh, I know that,
[2:25:04] uh, Houston has adopted the 81, which I
was very surprised that they did that.
[2:25:08] Um,
so it's just
[2:25:14] we were last year when we presented
this, uh, we wanted to stay with the pay
[2:25:21] parody and we knew we had to bring it
back year-over-year to to, uh, just be
[2:25:26] competitive. Um, I'm thankful last year
that we were able to do that and get
[2:25:32] that first year uh, up higher. Um, and
knowing that we got it up that higher,
[2:25:38] that's the reason why I came back with a
lower number this year because I knew it
[2:25:43] wouldn't be as big of an impact. Um,
but if y'all have any questions about
[2:25:50] it,
>> how how far out of the line did we
[2:25:55] last year? I don't remember the numbers
in front of us, but how far out of a
[2:26:00] line were we? So, so we went we went
above um at we actually hit above
[2:26:06] McGomery Countyy's 70 um because we
didn't know where they were going to be
[2:26:10] at at that time. They hadn't come back
with the numbers
[2:26:13] » and that was from what number that up.
>> I can pull that. Sorry. I'm going to
[2:26:18] pull that presentation up.
>> The their their previous year I believe
[2:26:21] it was 70 I meant 60 and then went to
70.
[2:26:25] » Okay. Um,
and then we went we did se we went to
[2:26:30] 75.
So
[2:26:35] I knew that there would be less of an
impact, but I did reduce it. I reduced
[2:26:40] it down to 78.
So uh, as starting pay, so it wouldn't
[2:26:46] match the 81, but I knew it would be
less of an impact there.
[2:26:51] » Yeah.
>> So it would be from 75 to 78.
[2:26:56] Chief, uh, isn't Conro's 20% jump?
That's really because they didn't do
[2:27:03] anything last year. Is that right?
>> They they didn't do anything last year,
[2:27:07] correct? And they lost they lost
personnel. I think
[2:27:10] » they lost personnel. So,
>> they finally woke up and
[2:27:12] » and then they jumped on board and then
they got with the pay parody too. But
[2:27:16] they also had a new chief. Uh, and that
new chief, uh, I believe was going into
[2:27:24] a new budget that that wasn't new
council.
[2:27:27] » Yes, they have a new council as well.
>> That's why it's so
[2:27:30] » Yeah.
>> Yeah.
[2:27:32] » Um, [clears throat] my I I guess my
question is um, and I I tried to ask it
[2:27:40] the other day
before, but I didn't formalize it. words
[2:27:44] wouldn't come out of my mouth correctly.
>> I remember.
[2:27:46] » Yes, I know you do. [laughter]
You still can't get my last name
[2:27:50] correct. Um
[2:27:54] but um
part of me is is
[2:28:00] now as far as giving raises and and
things of that nature and having people
[2:28:05] reach the next pay level. I I especially
in the police department and excuse me,
[2:28:12] but that's you know you you place your
lives in danger every single day. And so
[2:28:19] um I I believe that means something
also. Uh and the um thing that I was
[2:28:27] thinking about though going back to it
is parody. How how how much how long
[2:28:35] um
let me reformalize this so I don't sound
[2:28:39] like
>> how long is a piece of string?
[2:28:41] » Huh?
>> How long is a piece of string?
[2:28:43] » Yeah. How long is a piece of string? I
have no clue, Charlie, what that means.
[2:28:47] Uh but my my thing is is you know
comparing ourselves to Montgomery County
[2:28:54] or Houston and [clears throat] you know
those types of districts and and
[2:29:00] » right
>> uh resources. Uh we've at some point
[2:29:04] we've got to say okay we've got to adopt
we have to go back to the way we do it
[2:29:10] internally and trust in that. If we get
out of alignment again, let's set those
[2:29:16] markers so that we're aware that we're
moving into that dangerous territory
[2:29:21] again and make an adjustment if we can.
I mean, financially,
[2:29:27] um,
we don't know what the future holds.
[2:29:30] There's so many landmines out there with
the state, uh, you know, and regulations
[2:29:34] they're going to put on us as far as
taxes. But um I I just I I guess it's
[2:29:40] the word parody and having to do this
big research thing going on and on. I
[2:29:45] think if we've need to readjust our uh
what we pay people that needs to be
[2:29:51] identified and [clears throat] we get on
a good schedule for that. I every year
[2:29:56] coming back around and going so and so
raised theirs up to this so we ought to
[2:30:00] do that. I'm going okay
do does everybody deserve you know that
[2:30:07] bump up you just doing it across the
board or is it just representative of
[2:30:12] that and everybody has to still meet
their qualifications get certified in
[2:30:16] certain things because I know that each
uh level is going to require a certain
[2:30:21] amount of income certain amount of
benefits and so I just at what point do
[2:30:27] we pull it back in house Right. So, so
the reason why it was brought again this
[2:30:33] year is because the pay parody was this
plan was over a four-year plan that they
[2:30:39] they put out there. So, this was
McGomery Countyy's plan uh that I have
[2:30:43] right here if you want to see it. And
then Harris County had theirs and and
[2:30:47] Houston had theirs. So, I wanted to
present what they had and that's what I
[2:30:53] presented last year. I presented
>> Yeah. what they showed and and how uh it
[2:31:02] progresses over several years. Yeah.
>> So, that's the reason why we brought it
[2:31:06] back again because we don't know where
these other agencies are going to be
[2:31:09] because we haven't seen their budgets. I
don't know where McGomery County is
[2:31:12] going to be. These are our direct
competitors. So, Houston, because we've
[2:31:16] actually gathered some people from
Houston, uh and McGomery County.
[2:31:20] » Yeah.
>> Um so th those are our direct
[2:31:23] competitors. Houston, Harris County,
McGomery County, and and Conro. And I
[2:31:28] know that we don't have as many calls
and everything, but it's about the level
[2:31:32] of service and what the professionalism
that we want to provide here in our
[2:31:36] city. We're a unique city and we we
provide a different level of service.
[2:31:41] » Um, Shannidoa is we're known we're known
for our professionalism. more known for
[2:31:46] our ability to to apprehend uh criminals
because of the level of service we
[2:31:51] provide and the type of personnel that
we hire and the way we conduct our
[2:31:55] business, the way we train our guys and
and the uh the officer readiness program
[2:32:01] and everything. So,
um, you know, there's there's certain
[2:32:05] expectation
with the Shannondo Police Department,
[2:32:09] » but you know, we had to bring it over
year over year just because,
[2:32:13] » you know, that was part of the pay
parody um that we had to show, hey,
[2:32:18] look, we're we're bringing this back
because this is what we know our
[2:32:22] competitors are are bringing and um,
>> yeah,
[2:32:27] » this is what they said they're bringing.
We don't know. We don't know if McGomery
[2:32:30] County is going to come in and say,
"Hey, we're not doing anything." We have
[2:32:33] no idea. But I can just tell you that,
you know, Harris County came in. Uh I
[2:32:37] mean, um Houston came in and then we
know that Conro did. Yeah.
[2:32:41] » So, you know, we had to bring up
something.
[2:32:45] » Um you know, because we didn't know
where anybody was going to be.
[2:32:48] » Yeah. And I and I goodness I I
appreciate one thing your your
[2:32:52] philosophy approach uh to how you know
the Shannidora Police Department should
[2:32:57] not be reactive but should be proactive
and uh I think to have individuals like
[2:33:04] that you want them to be of the highest
caliber uh in their uh responsibility.
[2:33:09] So no and I'm just you know I'm just I
guess it's mainly for me it's it's how
[2:33:15] we're evaluating it. you know, I want to
make sure that and I've even expressed
[2:33:20] this to uh Sam about, you know,
performance-based
[2:33:26] uh and certification base and you know,
we want the right people,
[2:33:30] » right? And um the question is um but I I
know and understand the necessity
[2:33:39] um for
um well and this goes to you're picking
[2:33:45] your guys go through a probation cycle.
So you're you're able to observe people.
[2:33:50] You're able to watch them and you have
an understanding expectation and the
[2:33:54] thing that you say if you stay here's
how we're going to take care of you and
[2:33:58] your family. Correct. you know, and I
appreciate that. And I'm and I'm not
[2:34:03] [clears throat]
>> uh saying trying to say anything. I just
[2:34:06] people are,
>> you know, you're just uh $2 worth.
[2:34:10] You're worth $2 an hour more,
>> whatever. That's that's not the thing
[2:34:15] I'm trying to communicate. The thing I'm
trying to get to is the level of our
[2:34:20] responsibility of are we making our
decisions based on uh our your
[2:34:27] day-to-day operations with the
individuals that are working in your
[2:34:30] department or are we being influenced by
okay Montgomery County bumped it up,
[2:34:36] Houston bumped it up, you know.
>> Well, unfort [clears throat]
[2:34:38] fortunately that's just that's
how the the game is played. Um, you
[2:34:44] know, when it comes to law enforcement,
you know, money talks.
[2:34:48] » Yep.
>> And and you have to to understand that
[2:34:51] and know that um in law enforcement uh
you have to be very careful when it
[2:34:59] comes to performance-based
uh pay. Yeah.
[2:35:03] » Because that can get you in a lot of
trouble in court.
[2:35:06] » So, um that's something you really want
to avoid. Um
[2:35:10] » well I think what I'm saying in
performance and I'm not saying in how
[2:35:14] many tickets can you write
>> right
[2:35:16] » that's not so that would be yeah that
>> that's a word jumbo right there.
[2:35:23] » Yeah. Well well this you know law
enforcement is a profession that you're
[2:35:28] you paying for
uh for the position that you're expected
[2:35:34] to perform at at at the at the at the
given level.
[2:35:38] uh if you don't perform then you you
know you have pips you can pip a person
[2:35:43] improve your performance or or you're
out of here
[2:35:47] » because you're paying for the position
>> okay
[2:35:49] » you're paying for the position you're
not paying for the
[2:35:52] » uh because that person is not going to
be you know it could be very slow for an
[2:35:56] entire week.
>> Yeah.
[2:35:58] » And then that weekend it could just
light up.
[2:36:00] » Yeah. And how you perform during the
week when it's slow doesn't correlate to
[2:36:05] how you perform on the weekend when
everything is, you know, is
[2:36:11] » the adrenaline is going to be at a
different level at certain times.
[2:36:13] » Right. Right. Exactly. So you're paying
you're actually paying for the position
[2:36:18] that and and that person filling that
position is expected.
[2:36:22] » Yeah.
>> To perform at a at the given level. And
[2:36:25] and I guess that's part of what it you
know you used the term PIP and I I don't
[2:36:29] have no clue what that means but I'm
sure it's a performance improvement.
[2:36:34] Okay.
>> And so you know my thing is is there are
[2:36:39] measurements that that we're doing.
We're not we're not just saying I'm
[2:36:44] bumping you up period. You know,
regardless of how you I felt you and
[2:36:49] it's a lot of my deter a lot of my
saying this or bringing this up is for
[2:36:53] our citizens who are listening, you
know, they're not sitting in here and
[2:36:57] hearing about this and and there's a lot
that
[2:37:04] we're getting here in Shannondoa because
we made that adjustment.
[2:37:10] uh you know, but I don't want to see I I
see these uh I don't want us to be
[2:37:18] almost representing we're still being
reactive, right?
[2:37:22] » You know, I mean, if we have, you know,
if we want if we need to change the
[2:37:26] stages and how much they make, then
let's do that. you know, let's make a
[2:37:32] let's make a determination
and uh make sure that we as a council
[2:37:37] can can agree upon something that
that strengthens that and you know
[2:37:44] supports that uh being reactive and I
know you say it I know it is the game
[2:37:51] you know um but at some point in the
game we're not going to be able to pay
[2:37:57] those based on our city size And we are
going to have to cut back and you know
[2:38:03] you're going to have to be down an
officer for us to get I which is not
[2:38:07] what we want. We need to you know we
want to increase it more because we
[2:38:12] believe there's great things in store
for Shandoa and so we want it to be you
[2:38:18] know taken care of. But uh I just think
that I'm I'm just hoping that we can get
[2:38:23] to a place to where it's
>> Yes. and and and so and then that's the
[2:38:28] reason why I brought back the numbers. I
did I didn't go back with their their
[2:38:34] numbers. I came back with a lower number
because I understood the impact it was
[2:38:38] going to have to the city.
>> Uh we we can't I don't have a crystal
[2:38:42] ball so I can't tell what the budget's
going to be or anything like that what
[2:38:45] we're going to have available.
>> So I I knew that going forward Lisa and
[2:38:50] I have talked about this. adnauseium as
far as understanding that that
[2:38:56] this
goal of of pay parody the end goal of
[2:39:03] 101,000 per officer for starting pay we
the the ability for that to be
[2:39:09] obtainable is
it's very unlikely
[2:39:15] » I I I don't see that happening but we
have to stay competitive
[2:39:22] Because if if if we're not, then you
stand the chance of losing personnel.
[2:39:27] » Yeah.
>> And you don't want to be behind there.
[2:39:29] You don't want to be reactive with it
and wait till you're losing people and
[2:39:33] then you you get in a crunch where like
before we're down six officers, five
[2:39:38] officers, and then we're having to raise
the pay [snorts] in order to try to get
[2:39:43] PE personnel. You you want to stay ahead
of that game so you can constantly have
[2:39:48] a steady flow of people. But at the same
time, I definitely understand that
[2:39:54] there there's also a budget crisis,
right? So that's the reason why I came
[2:39:58] in with the numbers I did and I and I
lowered I cut it in half uh compared to
[2:40:03] » to what it was supposed to be.
>> Yeah. And what one of the points that I
[2:40:07] wanted to make is that, you know, we
wanted we I just want to get something
[2:40:13] um some, you know, warning signs because
we got out of alignment,
[2:40:19] » you know, we just went out of alignment,
you know, with pay and then all of a
[2:40:24] sudden we have this, you know,
type of uh large crevice that we had to,
[2:40:32] you know, cross and build a bridge and
and it it was a you know a tax increase
[2:40:37] and and if it makes sense it makes sense
>> right
[2:40:40] » but um I I just want to make internally
we need to have guidelines established
[2:40:46] like hey
you know this is this is the exact same
[2:40:52] thing that happened that took us to
where we were nonresponsive if we have
[2:40:57] to do a parody evaluation every three
years or whatever uh I mean is it but if
[2:41:04] that realistically has to happen every
year. Then,
[2:41:09] you know, we set the reasons why, you
know, not just,
[2:41:14] you know, we here it is. We're early on
setting our budget and we're going to
[2:41:19] get ahead of people and then we read it
wrong. And that's not a bad thing. It's
[2:41:22] still a good thing. If we can if we can
pay our officers more, that's a
[2:41:26] tremendously good thing. I see. and and
yeah, I would love to us to be in a
[2:41:32] position to help them and to help all of
our employees, but we have a
[2:41:36] responsibility to our citizens and to
the businesses around us, [snorts] you
[2:41:40] know, um to be responsible with the
money.
[2:41:45] » You made a good point there. We have a
responsibility to the citizens. I think
[2:41:49] it's important to understand that we
have a responsibility to the citizens
[2:41:52] and that responsibility is to make sure
that we have the absolute best that we
[2:41:56] can deliver in the way of services.
Absolutely.
[2:41:58] » Always think about that. What's the best
benefit for the resident? I want them to
[2:42:02] have the best officers out there.
>> I want them to have the best public
[2:42:06] works people out there.
>> We were really in a good position if I
[2:42:10] recall until external forces changed
that dynamic. Isn't that right? Start.
[2:42:17] Did it start with the DPS or
>> It started with DPS and then in order
[2:42:22] people were losing officers to DPS
uh because DPS starting pay was it's
[2:42:28] it's still very high.
>> Uh and then Harris County and uh Houston
[2:42:33] got on board and then McGomery County
and it just snowballed and it was
[2:42:39] » it's been moving south. So Dallas area
was the first to see these major hikes.
[2:42:44] Um and then it started trickling down
south.
[2:42:47] » Um it hasn't got Yeah. So it's it's been
slowly coming down. Pretty much any of
[2:42:52] your larger metropolitan areas were hit
all having the same parity issues. And
[2:42:57] it was nationwide. It wasn't even just
Texas. It's nationwide.
[2:43:01] » The the the amount of
it's all about the amount of officers
[2:43:07] that are out there
>> versus the amount of positions that are
[2:43:10] available.
>> Supply and demand.
[2:43:11] » Yeah.
>> Supply and demand. there's just not
[2:43:13] enough supply.
>> So, how do you increase that supply? You
[2:43:19] know, the media's just devastating law
enforcement. They're devastating law
[2:43:24] enforcement.
>> And so, just getting personnel, it's
[2:43:28] it's difficult.
>> Yeah. What happened in the nation
[2:43:31] definitely wasn't uncontrollable,
unforeseen. and and we're we're blessed
[2:43:35] to be down here and not close to Dallas
because that area is significantly
[2:43:41] higher in pay significantly.
>> So down here it it we're not as
[2:43:49] [clears throat] high as Dallas area, but
you know, we have to stay competitive,
[2:43:53] you know, so we don't look get into that
>> hole where we at.
[2:43:58] » Yeah.
So Mr.
[2:44:01] and Sam and Lisa. I'd like to propose
that Lisa take this
[2:44:10] » amount that he he's asking for
per officer, whatever, but apply it to
[2:44:16] the the personnel expenses of the police
department
[2:44:21] before we adopt the budget and let us
see it that way. I think it would be a
[2:44:26] lot better than just talking about all
these attributes and everything if it's
[2:44:31] all right with
>> Yeah.
[2:44:33] » Did I make sense?
>> 937,000 to your personnel budget.
[2:44:38] » Bottom line, you want to see what the
what the net is and what it how it
[2:44:42] affects the tax rate
>> at the end of the day.
[2:44:44] » Right.
>> That gives you a true comparison of
[2:44:46] where we are now and what we could be.
>> That's all. So
[2:44:50] » I can tell you off the top of my head,
you're going to have to go right below
[2:44:53] the B to accomplish this. Did you say
that it's an add-on, right? Of
[2:44:57] » Yeah. 137,000. [snorts]
So, you would have to go right below the
[2:45:00] B at the 1918 to accomplish this p this
pay scale.
[2:45:04] » I've already worked it out. Yeah.
>> No, no, [laughter] le if everything
[2:45:07] stays the same. I'm just trying to put
it in perspective.
[2:45:12] » Yeah. So, it would it would it would you
would have to go up to right below your
[2:45:15] B.
>> I understand, Chief. I know him well.
[2:45:18] You know what I mean? I understand Joe.
I know him equally as well. I know where
[2:45:22] both [snorts] of them are coming from
today and And but monetarily I don't you
[2:45:28] know what I mean
>> in in the in our picture that we're
[2:45:32] talking about.
>> Yeah.
[2:45:35] » The number you're asking for and the
number you're just saying it was what
[2:45:38] stage in the parody plan.
>> This would be introduced in this what he
[2:45:43] had proposed on this scale.
>> Okay.
[2:45:45] » That's in the MMO. So like if I add it
I'm just going to do it as a one lump
[2:45:48] sum. So it would be one
>> Chinese finance method there
[2:45:52] » 137. 7127.
So it would bring your budget deficit to
[2:45:57] 183
um
[2:46:01] or you would need an additional 117,000.
So you would have to raise your tax
[2:46:05] rate.
>> So right now 117 my
[2:46:07] » it [clears throat] would that would be
your bottom line that you would need to
[2:46:10] make up to balance your budget. So,
>> so the tax rate
[2:46:14] » in my thing, we're got a
we're to the good 91,4
[2:46:20] 91,400.
>> I know you don't see this, but
[2:46:25] » yeah. So the anticipated
>> I put all the scenario
[2:46:28] » the anticipated budget surplus as of the
proposal date was 69,15
[2:46:33] and then when we calculate all these
changes to um the um insuranceances
[2:46:39] contribution
>> that's my whole point put it all in with
[2:46:42] that.
>> So it brings you down to so this
[2:46:46] highlighted section right here is your
difference then it's the 117988.
[2:46:52] So you would have to raise taxes to
um give me one moment. Look at that real
[2:46:59] quick.
>> Would the NR
[2:47:01] » No, you would have to go
>> above the
[2:47:03] » Yeah, you would probably have to go
right below the B.
[2:47:07] » So what? Wait a minute. What would if we
if we are going to revise our reserve
[2:47:13] policy?
>> This is a recurrent item.
[2:47:17] » Ask this question. I want to you you
might be very right about that but I'm
[2:47:21] not sure. Okay. So you have to help me
understand that. But uh Sam, isn't it
[2:47:28] possible or is it possible that we could
allocate out of the because we make the
[2:47:36] change in that 90 days versus 180 days
that we have freed up some resources
[2:47:42] that we as a since we established policy
here, financial, fiscal policy, can we
[2:47:48] not allocate some of that?
>> Sure. to the police department to cover
[2:47:52] some of this expense and keep from
raising the taxes.
[2:47:56] » Well, as Lisa indicated, the the
reserves are for one-time expenses to be
[2:48:02] able to fund this and continue to fund.
>> Is that because is that statuto?
[2:48:06] » You would have a reoccurring.
>> Is that statuto?
[2:48:09] » We can definitely get some.
>> It's a it's not a best practice. Um the
[2:48:13] situation is because you're always going
to be then behind. So,
[2:48:16] » well, wait a minute. Wait. From what I
if I understand what you're saying, I
[2:48:20] don't know if
[snorts] if we make an agree if we set
[2:48:25] policy that the reserves are 90 or 120
the difference of that is not how is
[2:48:34] that going to be applied to a one time
moment if that's
[2:48:40] » exactly that's my question too.
>> So that is because it's so this is the
[2:48:44] situation you can run into. I'm going to
be realistic with you. Okay.
[2:48:47] » If you keep using available cash and
you're not bringing in additional
[2:48:50] revenue, you're eventually going to zero
out your
[2:48:52] » That's right. But we need a a gap period
here where we can cover these expenses,
[2:48:59] not raise taxes, and get out there and
do what we need to do to generate more
[2:49:03] revenue for the city. And we're having
some discussions about how we can do
[2:49:07] that. I'm just I'm looking for a period,
give us a give us a a year to work
[2:49:13] through this.
>> Yeah. And I agree with you that
[2:49:17] » extra money sitting over here is not a
long term if that money's been
[2:49:21] » and that's why the best practice is
always to net you know
[2:49:24] » but if we can if we change it and say
that it's 120 or or 90 days and whatever
[2:49:31] that difference is that frees that up to
be used how we set policy on it.
[2:49:38] » Correct.
>> Correct.
[2:49:39] » Okay. So
>> yeah,
[2:49:40] » if we we wanted to use that best
practice or not,
[2:49:44] » um I come from a family of accountants.
>> No, you're good. Sorry, my phone was
[2:49:49] going. So the uh uh if we use that money
to get us through,
[2:49:56] if we find something that can continue
to feed this and take care of it ongoing
[2:50:02] for the future. Okay. But that buys us
the time
[2:50:07] » to get there without raising the taxes
during this time.
[2:50:11] » Is that what
>> Yes.
[2:50:12] » Yeah. The only fact is
>> what if that doesn't come to fruition?
[2:50:16] » Doesn't matter. Now you're behind
>> there. So many what ifs in the world.
[2:50:19] Yeah.
>> What if you know the press would
[2:50:22] actually tell the truth and police
officers would
[2:50:25] » I'm just giving you my opinion of best
practice and everything else
[2:50:29] » and that's what you're supposed to be
doing and I appreciate that but I'm just
[2:50:33] » Yeah.
That's why you're sitting where you're
[2:50:35] sitting.
>> That's right. And we thank you for that.
[2:50:38] » Yeah. And thanks. No. and and and
because I
[2:50:43] it's I think what it is and it's not
it's not saying to uh we want to
[2:50:51] we're making decisions uh that are it's
a gamble
[2:50:57] » that [snorts] we might find something
>> and you're kind of committing to a
[2:51:00] future possibility like you're making a
decision now that could affect a future.
[2:51:05] That's the only thing is you want to
make sure.
[2:51:07] » Yeah. Now we're making a decision not to
raise taxes and use this money to cover
[2:51:11] that
>> until
[2:51:13] » whatever, you know, can be put in place
to support it ongoing past that time.
[2:51:19] » It's it's it's like saying we know
somebody's moving in, but they're not
[2:51:24] going to be here for a couple of years,
>> you know, but can we cover it between
[2:51:29] now and then without raising taxes?
>> I look at it as it's it's the cost of
[2:51:34] doing business when you're investing.
You're investing in your future right
[2:51:37] now and you have to take a little risk
>> and that doesn't impact the reserves.
[2:51:45] It's it's
>> well the the committed the 180
[2:51:48] committed. Yeah.
>> If
[2:51:49] » Yeah. Yeah. It won't affect that because
that goes totally restricted out. So
[2:51:53] you're just hitting like the unassigned
fund balance. That's so it's you're not
[2:51:57] you're not messing with your restricted
reserves. That's what I was trying to
[2:52:00] Yeah.
>> Exactly. Exactly.
[2:52:03] We have an item on the budget in revenue
and it's called fund balance and that's
[2:52:08] the the place where we fill deficits,
okay, from in the general fund and it
[2:52:15] comes from available cash. It comes from
the next item we're going to talk about
[2:52:21] trash pickup, okay? It comes from
cutting expenses. I mean, it can come
[2:52:26] from a lot of different ways or raising
taxes. Okay? What we don't want to do is
[2:52:32] raise taxes. We don't want to. But then
again, we want to keep the police
[2:52:37] department
>> 100%.
[2:52:40] » That's the whole thing we're talking
about.
[2:52:42] » Yeah.
>> So, if we just make it a common dollars
[2:52:45] and cents, here's what it is. Then we
can make a better decision and get all
[2:52:49] of the emotions out of this
conversation.
[2:52:52] » Yeah. That's all I would say, you know,
[2:52:58] because I want to do the the best that
we can for everybody. Can we do it? Can
[2:53:04] we not? At least we'll know.
>> And can we support it long term,
[2:53:08] » right?
>> Yeah.
[2:53:09] Now, if we did something with the trash,
it's going to go right back to the
[2:53:13] residents.
I mean, it's
[2:53:16] » Yeah.
>> Period.
[2:53:18] » Might as well raise the taxes.
>> And we don't know what the state's going
[2:53:21] to do to us.
No, I'm just saying I just brought it up
[2:53:25] because it's on the the next time.
>> So, if I hear you right, what we want to
[2:53:32] do is whatever that difference is
between the 180 to 90day reserve. See
[2:53:39] what that fallout is. Can that cover the
gap?
[2:53:43] » Yeah.
>> That we're looking at without having to
[2:53:45] raise taxes
>> after the 3 million.
[2:53:47] » Right. I'm saying if we don't bring it
to 90, maybe 120 or so, whatever that
[2:53:53] number is, how
>> see what that is.
[2:53:54] » Yeah.
>> Protects us still, but
[2:53:58] » we'll just have to evaluate that each
year.
[2:54:01] » And we'll have to evaluate that this
time next year to see where that outfall
[2:54:06] is.
>> Okay.
[2:54:11] » If that makes sense. All right. It's all
I
[2:54:15] » So just for my knowledge uh not so I can
compose the budget document. We're going
[2:54:21] with the year 2 parody as presented.
>> Present whatever he's presented.
[2:54:26] » Exactly.
>> Yeah.
[2:54:28] » I was on this. I was like
>> we don't have to rework anything. We're
[2:54:32] no good.
>> You just got to put it
[2:54:34] » put it in one lump sum. Say okay here it
is.
[2:54:40] » Okay. takes the emotion and everything
out then we can figure out how to pay
[2:54:44] for it.
>> Okay.
[2:54:47] » No,
>> we will. Right.
[2:54:49] » Yeah.
>> Okay. So, I will add that to the
[2:54:52] » It won't I'll add it to the different
buckets it needs to hit, but I'll put it
[2:54:57] as a separate breakout on the budget
document as well so you can see it.
[2:55:01] Yeah.
>> If it affects other sides of the budget,
[2:55:04] we want to know that, too. Okay. So,
that's why I asked the way I asked.
[2:55:08] It's going to be more work for you. Yes.
But
[2:55:11] » yeah.
>> Okay.
[2:55:12] » Sorry. Last year I had to break out all
the insurance stuff. Remember that? That
[2:55:15] was a lot [laughter] work.
>> Do
[2:55:18] » That's not nearly as
>> I thought that was a good thing. I know
[2:55:20] you wanted to bring it out of non
department, but yeah.
[2:55:25] » Okay. So, I will add that, but I'll add
it as a separate section.
[2:55:29] » Rich, what's the true cost of a police
officer? You know,
[2:55:33] » true cost of water.
>> Exactly. Yeah.
[2:55:35] » Yeah.
Okay.
[2:55:38] » And never
>> It's true.
[2:55:45] » Okay. So, I will bring that back.
>> There's a price. There's a price and a
[2:55:48] cost.
>> Yeah.
[2:55:50] » Cost account, same account.
>> Do you want to call break for the
[2:55:55] contract?
>> Let's go over the the uh the trash real
[2:55:58] quick pick up right quick.
[2:56:02] » So, um Joseph, I think, is leading this
one. Um but I'll let him start and then
[2:56:08] I can give go over some of the cost
differentials.
[2:56:14] » Yeah. So staff uh at council's request
collected information from our current
[2:56:22] trash provider of public services
uh to answer two questions. um you know
[2:56:28] what would it cost to add one additional
bulk collection day to our current
[2:56:34] contract which was uh one bulk per
month. So question one is what would it
[2:56:39] cost to make two bulk per month? And the
second question is how much would it
[2:56:44] cost to make a bulk collection every day
which is similar to our old contract
[2:56:49] » and I'm still trying to find that here.
Uh but
[2:56:52] » oh it's the um the uh
>> in the wrong tab. I know I saw it
[2:56:58] somewhere in here.
>> Blue
[2:57:00] » blue tab. Thanks. Oh, there it is.
Uh and so Republic Services got those
[2:57:06] prices back which we've presented here
uh to council.
[2:57:11] » And the the first thing I want to point
out is that the answer to
[2:57:17] question one which is adding one
additional bulk is there would be a $2
[2:57:23] increase to our our current rate
>> and that would not affect the contract
[2:57:29] adversely.
>> Correct. So, a contract when you bid out
[2:57:34] competitively bid a contract and award
it, if you're going to make changes and
[2:57:38] amendments to that contract, you have to
keep the price of it within 25% whether
[2:57:42] you increase it or subtract it. So,
adding $2 to this, it still keeps you
[2:57:49] within that 25% cost of an increase to
the contract, the overall contract. Now,
[2:57:54] the answer to question two, a bulk
collection every day of the week, that
[2:57:59] exceeded that 25%.
Uh, so we can't even really consider
[2:58:04] that because it well, if council wanted
to do that, it would require rebidding.
[2:58:08] » There you go. So, now we got everything
in place,
[2:58:11] » right? So, we we'd need to rebid the
entire uh contract and you could end up
[2:58:16] with another service provider and we get
to face what we had just last year of
[2:58:24] everyone complaining about the new trash
service. Uh just because it's it would
[2:58:27] be a change. Uh it would be different
trucks, different collection crews. Um
[2:58:33] and you could end up with a higher
price. Likely you would end up with a
[2:58:37] higher price. [snorts] So, um you've got
the information before you, uh the cost
[2:58:43] of what what it would take to add one
additional bulk collection day and every
[2:58:50] additional or every day being a bulk
collection day. Um happy to answer any
[2:58:55] questions you have.
>> Well, now you brought up [snorts] extra
[2:58:58] cans, which I get that question all the
time. And the fact that it's 750 per can
[2:59:04] per month, it's not the can. They're
it's the trash that you put in that can
[2:59:09] that they're hauling to the dump,
>> right? That's a lot of the cost is the
[2:59:13] disposal fees.
>> That is the cost.
[2:59:16] » And uh so that is on not on the city,
that's on the res.
[2:59:22] » It is. And and it's
>> totally I understand. And it's it's
[2:59:25] worth noting as as you consider adding
bulk days that and Lisa found this just
[2:59:32] a little over 2% of our residents
uh have an extra can which you know says
[2:59:39] to me that everyone else probably has
what they need for the collection. Uh,
[2:59:44] so I'd just, you know, keep that in the
back of your mind as as you're thinking
[2:59:47] about this because it it does add quite
a bit to the uh to the entire contract
[2:59:53] to to do this increase. But again,
that's that's council's prerogative uh
[2:59:58] of of that service and and what level of
service we want to provide with our
[3:00:01] contractor.
>> What was the percentage that
[3:00:06] wanted
a pickup additional pickups?
[3:00:11] I I we haven't
>> we don't have any date on that. It's
[3:00:15] just I know that some council members
have heard from some folks
[3:00:19] » to see what it would cost, but
>> I was one of them and I had 10
[3:00:23] » 10 people called me.
>> I suspect this is this is more an issue
[3:00:28] of poor planning for me and my neighbors
rather than an actual need for an
[3:00:32] additional
>> True Ernie. What's a and and I also
[3:00:35] imagine that if we raise taxes to cover
additional bulk pickup days, the hue and
[3:00:39] cry would be far greater than we need to
have more bulk trash days.
[3:00:43] » I totally agree.
>> So I really don't for me I personally
[3:00:46] wouldn't support any additional heavy
trash days because you guys have this
[3:00:50] amazing we have this amazing yearly deal
here anywhere where where
[3:00:54] » if you got a year
>> if you have if you have a bulk if you
[3:00:57] have a I don't know a can of plutonium
you can bring it here. No one's asking
[3:01:00] any questions. Yeah.
>> So, um I think I like you just made that
[3:01:05] public.
>> Look, you can buy uranium on Amazon.
[3:01:10] » You weren't going to say anything,
remember?
[3:01:13] » But but the thing is
>> the the only thing that I've heard that
[3:01:17] that is that is curious to me is that
when people have have said that, hey,
[3:01:20] they missed my cans today. Now, that's
unacceptable. If we're paying the guys
[3:01:24] to take care of the business, they need
to take care of their business. that
[3:01:27] that's that's an administrative thing
between you guys and our and our and our
[3:01:30] vendors. Other than that, I like the new
service. I love the new cans because
[3:01:34] they're not dragging mine across the
pavement to make holes where water will
[3:01:38] get out. Uh I think it's for us it's
been working well and we we're one of
[3:01:42] the 2% that pays for the extra can. We
use it. We're happy to pay it. Um but
[3:01:47] again, I think the bulk trash day is
just a matter of me and my neighbors
[3:01:50] poorly planning.
>> You know, it seems like things have
[3:01:53] really settled down now. Yes.
>> Don't you think?
[3:01:57] » Not hearing [clears throat] any concerns
anymore.
[3:01:59] » Most of the complaints that me and Tammy
get is just if it was missed.
[3:02:04] » I think that's legitimate because
>> maybe the one
[3:02:06] » there's no
>> one time a month for the bulk pickup
[3:02:09] seems to be acceptable.
>> And this is a result of their requests.
[3:02:14] » And and we have spoken with Republic
about mist trash. And here here's the
[3:02:18] the fun thing about that is all their
trucks have cameras. And so they just
[3:02:23] produced a report just a little while
ago for me which show it is about two
[3:02:26] full pages of a tint type font of miss
trash reports
[3:02:30] » and only about
20% maybe um were because of the truck
[3:02:36] missed it. The others the cans were not
out there when the truck went by.
[3:02:40] » I suspected that.
>> I saw that movie. That's great that
[3:02:44] that's
>> Now, now there are times where there
[3:02:47] there's some like Lily in particular,
they've got some pretty narrow roads and
[3:02:51] there's one in particular where people
like to park on the turn. The truck
[3:02:54] can't make it. They simply cannot fit
down that alley and so they do miss, you
[3:03:00] know, there's some areas like that where
>> Yeah.
[3:03:02] » And and we've tried to work with the
HOAs, hey, please speak with your
[3:03:05] residents on trash day at least. Don't
park your vehicles there because you're
[3:03:08] preventing trash collection. Um, but
sometimes the guys just flat out don't
[3:03:13] miss it.
>> Not not too often, but
[3:03:16] » I'm not strong enough to pick up a car.
>> No. Okay.
[3:03:20] » And a lot of the time you address
trash day. What is available? What is
[3:03:27] correct to put out there and what is
not? There is no list.
[3:03:32] » Yeah, I'm so on the website there's
there's still a list.
[3:03:35] » All right.
>> Yeah. And it's similar to what
[3:03:38] » I couldn't find it, but that's that's my
problem.
[3:03:40] » It'll they'll take bulky trash up to
three yards or five yards. Actually, it
[3:03:45] went up uh on Bulk Bay. It used to be
three, so up to five yards, which is
[3:03:49] basically a dumpster
>> full. So, they'll take couches. Uh what
[3:03:53] what they will not take is construction
waste. So, if you've got a bunch of
[3:03:57] » tile out there and fence posts and it
looks like you're running a business,
[3:04:03] » that's they're not going to take that.
And the other because my department
[3:04:08] feels a lot of those complaints that
come in um is on bulk days because the
[3:04:13] trucks do fill up quite quickly. So they
have to leave and come back. So that's a
[3:04:18] lot of their calls is hey they missed me
but they're just on their way back. They
[3:04:21] just had to empty the truck.
>> Yeah. So, um, [clears throat] but yes,
[3:04:25] Joseph's point, we've had several
complaints and then when we reach out to
[3:04:30] the Republic, they have the
documentation to provide us that yes,
[3:04:33] there was masonary materials that they
will not pick up, so they won't empty
[3:04:37] the trash can.
>> So, Home Depot has these really strong
[3:04:41] bags that you can put pretty much
anything and just wire wire them shut.
[3:04:45] » I'm just saying.
>> Put it in that blue thing and away it
[3:04:48] goes.
[3:04:51] So, um, the only thing I said, you know,
I made recommendation [snorts] on this,
[3:04:56] uh, memo that if we did want to go with
a second bulk day, um, to avoid
[3:05:02] increasing the operational budget by
125,000, we would it would only be like
[3:05:06] a $2 per month per bill increase. If we
wanted to do a second bulk pickup, that
[3:05:12] would just go to the residential.
>> Um, that would have to be all across all
[3:05:16] 12,400, whatever.
>> Yes. Yes. That applied to every
[3:05:19] » residential account. We only service
residential. We don't service
[3:05:22] commercial.
>> Yeah. So that would be um the alternate
[3:05:26] if you wanted to add that second bulk
day. Either you would have to increase
[3:05:29] your revenue or you could put that
charge onto the consumer.
[3:05:35] » I think we should just move forward.
>> I need to forget that idea. Bad idea.
[3:05:40] » The consensus pretty much back to your
>> We discussed it and that's
[3:05:45] » Yeah.
>> Okay. What is the consensus in your
[3:05:47] paper? Just leave it alone. Leave it the
same.
[3:05:53] » All right, moving along. Okay, so the
next these were existing, this is an
[3:05:58] existing contract discussion. I do have
a section for new contract proposals. Um
[3:06:03] I will let u public works handle this
first one relating to SDK.
[3:06:09] » Anybody ready for a break?
>> Oh yeah, sorry. All right, let's take
[3:06:12] » time flies in your
>> 10 minutes again.
[3:06:17] Put everybody to sleep.
[3:06:35] » I'm drinking my beer.
[3:06:54] How do we change?
[3:07:21] No, I'm not.
[3:07:36] Word
[3:07:59] I was going to say
[3:08:03] I'll ask
[3:08:16] He's
[3:08:20] going
[3:08:28] [laughter]
[3:08:31] » my grandmother's from
[3:08:45] Zoom call.
[3:09:00] I
>> was like I was like where are you from?
[3:09:04] He literally sounds like my uncle.
I was like oh
[3:09:09] » Philadelphia.
>> All right.
[3:09:12] » I asked my dad
[3:09:18] » my accent.
>> It was
[3:09:22] actually
[3:09:28] funny.
when I go back to New York.
[3:09:36] » Yeah.
>> Yeah. And then
[3:09:42] she goes to
look at me and she goes,
[3:09:47] » "What happened?"
[3:09:52] » Christmas, why is everyone yelling? I'm
like, "We're not yelling. We're talking
[3:09:58] loud and
[3:10:07] by accident.
[3:10:25] What?
[3:10:50] » My brother
[3:11:08] We have to
work
[3:11:25] people.
[3:11:29] » I was
[3:12:02] was like, "What?
[3:12:27] Just go to I don't care.
[3:12:34] You haven't seen
>> those.
[3:12:58] Oh my god.
[3:13:26] Holy cow.
[3:13:31] » My
old
[3:13:43] as soon as
[3:14:21] I wanted
[3:14:36] you know system
[3:14:43] No, but I'm saying
[3:15:06] They were supposed to
[3:15:39] You look so
[3:15:56] resume
our discussion here. Lisa,
[3:16:01] » so um the next item will be for new
contract proposals. The first one's
[3:16:05] going to be a traffic data analytics and
um Joseph or will be able to handle that
[3:16:10] one.
>> I'll go ahead and take that one. Uh so
[3:16:15] quick history on this. This stems from
the conversations that council had
[3:16:21] regarding concerns with speeding and
other traffic concerns in the valley. A
[3:16:26] traffic control uh traffic committee was
formed for this. A survey as you know
[3:16:32] was distributed among the residents and
like any good survey we had um some data
[3:16:39] collection questions and then the very
last was open-ended to get a lot of
[3:16:43] information. Well, from the results of
of all that, the scope quickly expanded
[3:16:49] from just the Shannondoa Valley to the
city of Shannondoa and a lot of ideas,
[3:16:54] concerns, and and opinions given through
that survey.
[3:16:58] And staff took that information and
thought it would be useful to have a
[3:17:05] little more data as we're considering
these concerns as reported through the
[3:17:10] survey and by city council. And so we
reached out to just one company in
[3:17:15] particular. There's several out there,
but we reached out to Urban SDK and they
[3:17:21] basically uh uh uh collect data from
vehicle telemetrics, from satellite
[3:17:30] imagery, from dot information, and they
they combine all of this uh and
[3:17:39] parse out really granular data. So you
can look at not just one street but
[3:17:48] sections of that street between
intersecting streets and you can get uh
[3:17:53] analytics about speed and what
percentile of people traveling on that
[3:17:58] road at any given point are speeding
going the speed limit or going slowly.
[3:18:04] And this is live information that
they're capturing minuteby minute and
[3:18:09] you get access to that data. So, it can
really help in decision- making as far
[3:18:14] as, hey, is this street really have a
speeding problem or is it a speeding
[3:18:19] perception because you can look at the
actual data of vehicles traveling down
[3:18:25] that road. Um, so in full transparency,
there are you all you will have a few
[3:18:30] little gaps. So,
this is really going to be more
[3:18:35] effective for vehicles that are built
2000 beyond. they have more of the
[3:18:39] sophisticated uh information that
they're able to collect. Vehicles prior
[3:18:42] to that really don't have that data, but
everybody's got a cell phone in your
[3:18:47] pocket. I mean, I'm sure you've seen on
Google Maps, you know, when there's a
[3:18:52] slowdown, and that's because of data
from telephones.
[3:18:56] And so, that data is collected by this
company. And
[3:19:02] like I said, the granularity you get is
is amazing. Um, I like to compare this
[3:19:08] to the traditional way of collecting uh
traffic data, which is you do a you do a
[3:19:15] speed u study. We've done a few with
bile engineering. They run anywhere from
[3:19:20] 5,000 to 10,000 per study. You select a
few streets. You put out your tubes and
[3:19:26] you get a snapshot of data across a few
days maybe. and then you pull your tubes
[3:19:33] and that's the amount of data you have
for a $10,000 expense and it's helpful
[3:19:40] but it ages quickly and and it's just a
snapshot.
[3:19:45] So, this company um and and I'll just
tell you the price that they gave us uh
[3:19:53] basically to you know the idea is let's
set the ceiling for for what uh we'd be
[3:19:58] willing to if council wanted to pursue
this that we'd be willing to pay. It's
[3:20:02] basically 10,000 a year in a two-year
contract. So, $20,000 gets you two years
[3:20:08] of access. Obviously, you can continue
continue that if you see that there's
[3:20:13] value there. Um, but I tell you that
number again just to set the ceiling of
[3:20:18] of the price that that you may see.
Again, this is data that can help with
[3:20:24] decision- making that the traffic
committee's been working on. You know,
[3:20:29] is there an area that's got speeding
issues? Maybe at a stop sign, maybe you
[3:20:32] look at speed humps or bumps or or some
sort of solution. And then the cool
[3:20:37] thing is you can implement that solution
and then look at the data and see how it
[3:20:42] changes. But [clears throat] what as I
remember being in that meeting, wasn't
[3:20:47] it more intuitive even it it would give
you traffic flow, traffic congestion
[3:20:53] uh points also? So any studies that we
want to see as far as supporting data
[3:21:00] information on um
Grogan's Mill and Vision Park um all of
[3:21:08] these different areas, time of day. Uh
it was a
[3:21:13] very impressive
um you know data type of accessing um I
[3:21:22] guess software that that they can do.
>> Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up. But
[3:21:27] yes, they do have vehicle loading
accounts basically
[3:21:30] » as well. and they have an AI component
which just pulls the data specific to
[3:21:35] what you're looking at
>> and you can ask it questions and it's
[3:21:38] not going to reach out to the internet
and grab something that doesn't apply to
[3:21:41] what you're looking for but it uses
internal data
[3:21:44] » and you can ask any questions to to
really hone in quickly because it's a
[3:21:48] massive amount of data. Yeah.
>> And that can really help you hone in on
[3:21:52] » Yeah. Because it even showed traffic
traffic flow.
[3:21:56] You know, you you pick it. it provides
whatever you dial into it um you know
[3:22:03] whatever the information you're looking
for and yeah it was for the price uh I
[3:22:10] was surprised at how much data uh usable
data within a reasonable time you know
[3:22:17] that you can get so so staff's questions
are two one is this something that
[3:22:23] interests city council and two if it
does then we'd recommend setting uh
[3:22:29] 20,000 uh because you you'd need the the
funding up front, but you're only going
[3:22:34] to spend 10,000 per year up to 10,000
per year. But I'd say a funding of of
[3:22:38] $20,000 for this type of
>> Has the Has the police department looked
[3:22:42] at it? And
>> I was just going to ask
[3:22:44] » what are they going to what do they
think about it? [clears throat]
[3:22:50] » What would you do with the data, Chief?
that that would you assign an officer to
[3:22:55] to
patrol that more or that's my
[3:23:00] » it's
[3:23:04] good question though I know
[clears throat]
[3:23:06] so the data you know I I had I didn't
see the actual program I just discussed
[3:23:13] it with Joseph and everything um I would
actually have to see it myself to
[3:23:19] understand it and to understand the the
whole uh concept [snorts] of it. Um I
[3:23:25] know you know the signs that we're
putting up now they collect data but I
[3:23:29] don't know to the extent that they would
collect with this. Um
[3:23:36] it just really depends on what I want to
do with it. But yes, if we find a
[3:23:41] problem area, you know, we're just going
to put people over there and and find
[3:23:45] the time frames uh that they're doing
it. um
[3:23:49] » which is probably dry times and
>> understand the point
[3:23:55] » for for the most of it [clears throat]
we know the general times there's going
[3:24:00] to be the sporadic times that people
speed through the residence
[3:24:04] um throughout the day there are and
you're going to have your outliers and
[3:24:10] stuff like that um
[clears throat] but for the most part
[3:24:16] you know we we Um, we sit in the areas
that have the most uh traffic that
[3:24:24] and and complaints, but um
>> this is a little different than a
[3:24:29] complaint. This is actual
>> Yes, it's actual data. But but right now
[3:24:34] we're sitting there we're sitting at at
locations uh that we do get a lot of
[3:24:39] complaints and
>> it's like fishing though. you know,
[3:24:43] » it is it's it you're you're 100%. I I
can tell you that uh I was going in
[3:24:50] there, you know, that I was going in the
residence. I'm sitting up myself
[3:24:54] » asking you. Exactly.
>> And so um what I found out that it was
[3:24:59] taking me um roughly an hour to to get a
stop. Uh, and that stop was about
[3:25:10] the highest I was getting was, you know,
26 27 miles an hour. The average was 24
[3:25:16] miles an hour. That was the average.
>> Now, as long as you've been an officer,
[3:25:19] you wouldn't you [clears throat]
wouldn't think
[3:25:21] » to to me that that is a waste of a
resource
[3:25:25] sitting at one location for a solid hour
to get one traffic stop. Now we're down
[3:25:30] to do we spend $10,000 for that or
just to make us feel better. [snorts]
[3:25:37] » Well, that's this is not the the traffic
ones that the chief is putting in right
[3:25:42] now that they purchased. Those are
>> the signs are signs, right?
[3:25:46] » Well, no, no, no. They're more than
signs. They're they have a Doppler radar
[3:25:50] that reads uh and counts uh that vehicle
going to the to the stop to the stop
[3:25:57] sign and away from the stop sign. It it
also tells you uh the size of the
[3:26:03] vehicle if if it's uh uh you know FedEx
or or someone else. So it gives you some
[3:26:10] more intuitive the product the software
that Joseph's referring to that we
[3:26:16] watched. It's actually it's not a real
time right now. We can pull up the data
[3:26:22] right now and see the car is going right
now. It's not it does an averaging.
[3:26:27] So, uh that's one thing about it, but
their data
[3:26:32] pulling it up uh has advantages to it. I
guess my only question would be I liked
[3:26:39] what I saw because I thought it was
amazing technology. My only question
[3:26:43] would be is is it usable data for making
decisions on what we might want to do in
[3:26:52] an area? Oh, we need to in the future
why why don't we should we make this a
[3:26:58] left turn lane here? you know, um, you
know, we can are these type of data
[3:27:05] reads
enough data to justify that or would the
[3:27:11] county say no, you have to go in and do
these old studies, you know, where cars
[3:27:18] drive over it and do directional things.
I I don't know if it's usable for, you
[3:27:24] know, making decisions on road changes.
Do you know if this is the same
[3:27:30] equipment that the county uses because I
I noticed those counters that the county
[3:27:36] put in on Mill.
>> No. No. So this data that is collected
[3:27:42] is collected from the cars themselves.
>> Okay.
[3:27:45] » And the cell phones of the people in
those cars from satellite imagery. They
[3:27:50] they aggregate all of this data
>> just like the apps on.
[3:27:54] » Yeah. They don't use signage. They don't
use tubes. This comes straight from the
[3:27:58] vehicles and the people in those
vehicles.
[3:28:00] » Now, I would I would propose that you
put the money in the budget. It's not a
[3:28:04] commitment to sign a contract or buy
anything, but you have at least covered
[3:28:09] the cost by putting it in the budget now
and let them do some more
[3:28:15] work, research, termination, sell us on
the concepts if if the council's feeling
[3:28:20] in that, you know, going in that
direction.
[3:28:25] And I'll just add one of the use cases
um because chief wasn't he wasn't able
[3:28:29] to make that presentation but we have
talked about it um but one of the use
[3:28:33] cases they presented during that is and
I'll [clears throat] use David Memorial
[3:28:38] as an example. It's speed limits 30
miles an hour and if you're looking at
[3:28:42] your data and it shows that on average
you know
[3:28:47] people are going 45 miles an hour on
that. Well, now the the police
[3:28:53] department has an idea of, hey, let's
post an officer over there because
[3:28:56] people are speeding on it all the time
and let's get them to slow down.
[3:29:00] » Count Council, I think Lieutenant
Pulling, she was in on that meeting.
[3:29:06] If y'all want to ask her any questions
regarding that, you want to
[3:29:10] » She got to be in.
>> Yeah,
[3:29:13] we were on the mic.
>> Come on. Come on over here. Take the
[3:29:17] mic.
>> Chief was busy at the time, so
[3:29:23] just don't
[3:29:30] » Okay. So, when y'all were asking as far
as behalf of the police department, it
[3:29:36] being beneficial for us. When I watched
him explain that program,
[3:29:43] it didn't show to me any new information
that we don't already know where the
[3:29:49] problem areas were. Now, yes, it does
collect data as far as telling you the
[3:29:54] speed, the number of vehicles, so the
the traffic congestion. It'll kind of
[3:30:00] narrow down like the traffic times of
when the congestion's high. But the what
[3:30:06] I got out of it was that it was for more
future
[3:30:12] I guess um
information on for traffic control
[3:30:16] devices
>> planning.
[3:30:18] » Yeah. That that's that's how I saw that
program more. Now is it a cool program?
[3:30:23] It is. But it for the police department
as far as the speeding problems or the
[3:30:28] stop sign problems and stuff like that
and the times it's nothing different
[3:30:32] than what we already know.
So
[3:30:36] » the reason I asked is that law
enforcement it enforces claim areas.
[3:30:41] » Okay. What does that mean? You don't
>> say that again.
[3:30:44] » It enforces in claim areas. This is
their publication that they have
[3:30:51] planning or elected officials political
champions for the livability.
[3:30:58] I don't see a lot of benefit in all
that. I'm just thinking feature
[3:31:01] advantage benefit here.
and you're answering a lot of the
[3:31:05] question.
>> I just wanted the police point of view.
[3:31:08] » Right. Right.
>> Yeah. And that's why I asked if I could
[3:31:11] speak on it since I was on that meeting
because I understand for like maybe on a
[3:31:15] public work side or like future planning
if if more construction is coming up or
[3:31:20] you know that type of thing that would
be very beneficial. But as far as
[3:31:26] enforcement wise it's not going to
change. I don't see it changing or
[3:31:29] helping us in any way. It may tell us
it's it's kind of the same thing as
[3:31:34] putting, you know, the old school line
across the road and getting a traffic
[3:31:38] count. I mean, that's just kind of how I
saw it.
[3:31:41] » I mean,
>> it does display uh the actual speed.
[3:31:45] » Yeah.
>> Is that part of the deal?
[3:31:46] » It it it displays the feed uh the speed,
the traffic flow.
[3:31:50] » Yeah. It's been kind of interesting.
Even when even when it jams up
[3:31:54] » on Holly Hill, I've sat up in that
parking lot just to watch the reaction
[3:31:57] of people when they hit that speed sign
and you say those brakes the people hit
[3:32:02] it is causing people to react.
>> It will
[3:32:05] » and slow them down.
>> I I don't speed in the neighborhood but
[3:32:08] I and I slam on brakes too like oh no.
>> So, you know, from a just it has an
[3:32:13] effect on people.
>> Are they willing to let us run a pilot
[3:32:16] just to just to see what they're what
kind of information they're going to
[3:32:18] provide? Yeah, they'd be happy to do a
presentation to pilot. Let it run for 90
[3:32:23] days for free.
>> It's running already.
[3:32:25] » Yeah, it's already running. Um,
>> it's live data. They're collecting their
[3:32:30] data collection points. There's I kind
of freaked out how many data points are
[3:32:34] in in a vehicle or on you that they're
reading from and they're collecting it
[3:32:39] like that.
>> So, you're saying you're saying we
[3:32:41] already have access to our neighborhood
or our city?
[3:32:44] » So, let me explain that. So they're not
going to do a pilot. Um
[3:32:50] » not to show you.
>> Not not to show you. So anytime we met
[3:32:52] with them, uh they're very careful to
show the live data from either the past
[3:32:58] week, past month, whatever data set they
were looking at over there in Florida.
[3:33:02] » Uh except once.
>> Yes.
[3:33:04] » Except once they they showed all of
Shannondoa. Yeah.
[3:33:08] » And quickly moved it away. And I can
tell you this from when we saw it and so
[3:33:11] they had everything color coded. Green
being good, people are going the speed
[3:33:15] limit. Yellow was getting bad. Red is a
high-speed area. Pretty much every
[3:33:20] street in Shannidoa was green. Um except
the areas, as Lieutenant said, we
[3:33:26] already Wellman Road
between the stop sign and I45.
[3:33:31] » Yes.
>> Um so we saw that and they they quickly
[3:33:34] moved away because the data is already
there. You're just paying for access to
[3:33:37] it.
>> Yeah, I I get that the data is already
[3:33:39] there. I'm asking, but you've already
answered the question. Um me personally,
[3:33:45] um coming from that world, I I wouldn't
be willing to entertain their offer
[3:33:49] unless they were willing to show us data
on our on our city as in a pilot. I
[3:33:54] understand from their position and
understand what they think they're
[3:33:57] protecting, but traffic patterns change
throughout seasons. Um if they're
[3:34:02] unwilling to share the product and
software companies do this all the time
[3:34:06] and data companies do this all the time,
I personally um I'm not interested in
[3:34:10] entertaining them.
understood.
[3:34:14] » Nor am I just based on
>> sir
[3:34:16] » and nor am I just based on that
>> I don't see a need for this.
[3:34:22] » It's nice. It's cool to have but I'd
rather put my money into compensation
[3:34:26] for our police officers.
>> Same.
[3:34:29] » Yep.
>> That makes sense.
[3:34:30] » I think it's a value needed when it's
there
[3:34:34] » or nitrous for the cop cars.
[3:34:40] » Okay.
Wonderful.
[3:34:42] » That's right.
>> So
[3:34:45] is no
sounds like I'm
[3:34:48] » see I'm going home.
[3:34:53] » Water work software.
>> Okay. So I'll handle this one. Um but um
[3:34:58] so a couple months ago public works RL
Joseph and I sat on a um web a web call
[3:35:05] with um water software. So basically
what in a nutshell what they do is that
[3:35:10] it's a data analytic software that takes
your live um utility bill and read data.
[3:35:18] It takes your pumpage data. It can take
you can load in your CIP, your M, your
[3:35:22] maintenance operation budgets and it
constantly uses your trends of it. It
[3:35:29] creates basically a continuous rate
study. That's what it does. Um so and it
[3:35:35] also can help aid in some water loss
analysis as well because it takes
[3:35:39] pumpage and it also takes your your
consumption which is your billable uh uh
[3:35:45] water. Um, so it just basically it does
what I try to do through Excel, not into
[3:35:53] that super detailed level and it helps
constantly create, hey, based on what
[3:35:59] we're seeing with your trends, your rate
probably should be somewhere around here
[3:36:03] to maintain a system. And you can also
help, you could build a reserve limit
[3:36:07] that you want in there to try to build
up a reserve for your water sewer fund.
[3:36:11] It just takes all those factors and
calculates all that into one software
[3:36:16] instead of having seven Excel sheets
like I do kind of right now. Um the cost
[3:36:22] was not a huge hit. It's about 10 grand
a year. Um it does use some AI
[3:36:26] components to also look at some other
trends based on our pumpage. Um and I
[3:36:33] don't want to get nitty-gritty because
unless you live in the water sewer
[3:36:36] billing life, it it you know it's kind
of boring. So,
[3:36:42] » so are they would they be using data we
already possess and then analyzing it to
[3:36:46] provide pro provide
>> do they do you have a list of what it is
[3:36:50] they're willing to they would be
providing for the cost?
[3:36:53] » Yes. So it is um sorry
should have that page brought up. So
[3:37:01] basically what it does oh it also can
factor in your asset replacement. So you
[3:37:05] can build in different metrics into like
how you want to replace your assets and
[3:37:08] your infrastructure and it can
>> based on how the usage of the
[3:37:12] » we could build those metrics out if we
wanted to. Yes.
[3:37:15] » When you get there, are you talking to
page number?
[3:37:17] » Um so please
>> sorry it's kind of long.
[3:37:22] » The subscription page is 56
>> for the pricing.
[3:37:29] » Yes. So basically the features are rate
design, long-term financial model, asset
[3:37:34] features, which is kind of that um you
can put in your infrastructure and kind
[3:37:39] of um build out your metrics on that and
then scenario exploration. So I can
[3:37:43] build in hey what if we raised our rates
to this level? How would that impact
[3:37:48] overall based on our already sold
pumpage? What
[3:37:55] what form would the product be that you
you receive as a result of the of the
[3:38:00] subscription?
>> It's an actual software. So, it's a live
[3:38:04] you it's it's like a web- based
software. So, it continuously moves and
[3:38:09] works and it's pretty interactive.
>> So, you have access to it.
[3:38:12] » Yes.
>> What are the sensor?
[3:38:13] » Do you have access right now?
>> Subscription?
[3:38:15] » No.
>> You subscribe to it?
[3:38:18] » Waterworks. You know, I'll look them up.
I'm I'm asking because if we already
[3:38:21] possess the data,
>> I I I not trying to to dissuade you from
[3:38:28] looking at these folks. This can be done
in a few days with the current tools at
[3:38:32] that we possess.
>> The problem is
[3:38:34] » Excel spreadsheets but actual program.
>> So the problem is is that if I leave
[3:38:39] tomorrow, who's going to maintain that,
right? Whereas when you go with a
[3:38:42] software, sometimes you know that it's
going to be maintained and someone can
[3:38:46] come in after me and know what they're
doing. um or they can get that training.
[3:38:50] Um the problem with using a lot of
self-service software is it's it's I
[3:38:55] know it's a concern of Chris's and he's
kind of communicated with us is that
[3:38:59] who's going to maintain that, right?
>> Yeah. That's that's always an issue. We
[3:39:02] really try to avoid what I call the
skunk works developing anything in
[3:39:06] house. It's stop. It's sometimes in the
short term it's a great solution, but
[3:39:11] it's typically not sustainable. And as
soon as that knowledge base leaves, it
[3:39:15] usually falls to the wayside and then
people who are using it say, "How do we
[3:39:19] do this or do that?" And so then then
you're back to square one.
[3:39:24] » Yeah. Chris, tell me tell me the tell me
the top five things that this software
[3:39:28] would provide to you and then what would
you do with that?
[3:39:30] » Well, I'm not familiar with the
software. This is this is a cloud-based
[3:39:34] solution.
>> Top five things.
[3:39:36] So it would help me with budgeting
exactly for revenue.
[3:39:39] » Are are there specific things it would
give you that would help you? I'm not
[3:39:43] I'm not
>> No, no. So basically what we do right
[3:39:46] now is we do a 5-year rate study. Right.
So we have to wait five years to see
[3:39:51] okay where are we at? And that study is
done by bio engineering but it's based
[3:39:56] on historical data by the time we get
that data to them. Whereas this kind of
[3:40:00] keeps evolving it. It takes all our
metrics continuously and recalculates
[3:40:05] all these things for me. So the top five
things that would help me do is maintain
[3:40:10] our cash flow module I mean model
because we can kind of establish where
[3:40:15] we want our cash flow metrics to be and
it can help me calculate that out. It
[3:40:19] can also help us and Joseph to put all
of our O andM we can build out a
[3:40:25] forecast our on and we already have a
forecast with our CIP and it can
[3:40:29] conceptualize hey where do we need to be
to fund that you know and we can add
[3:40:33] inflationary rates onto that so that
every year it kind of re or we can
[3:40:37] re-upload it as we need um where I'm at
two three [laughter]
[3:40:42] » so so this is so use anal this is
predictive analytics to to give you a
[3:40:46] forewarning of potential
>> yes
[3:40:48] » assets set failure and shortfalls in
revenue.
[3:40:51] » Yes. And also it'll help us with some
wear loss I think as well. Water loss
[3:40:56] cons because it takes your pumpage and
it takes your billable.
[3:41:00] » So the current the current contract that
we just we just approved that's that's
[3:41:04] going into into effect that has digital
or that has data that's already coming
[3:41:09] to us to let us know like if someone
thinks they're only using 150 gallons a
[3:41:13] day but then they're they're actually
pumping 300 somewhere. We already have
[3:41:16] that. Right.
>> Right. with the Badger, the Water Sense.
[3:41:20] » Okay. Thank you.
>> Yeah. So, the theory was is that because
[3:41:25] I'm a oneman team, um, you know, I have
a my accounting
[3:41:29] » yourself short. You're a dozen man.
>> Yeah. My my accounting Kristen's great,
[3:41:33] but she does more of my day-to-day. The
analytics is up to me, right? So, and as
[3:41:38] everyone knows, I get pulled everywhere.
So, this was going to be a tool to kind
[3:41:41] of help me alleviate making some errors
in Excel sheets because they're
[3:41:46] inevitable. we know this um that's the
other thing is it's a error thing for
[3:41:51] you know with excels and um it helps
with a continu continuity if I was to
[3:41:57] leave or someone else was to take over
they can see where we were at on
[3:42:01] something that was kind of the idea
there too
[3:42:04] » okay see where we're at on something
>> like where we are with our rates with
[3:42:09] our infrastructure everything it's all
built into one component instead of
[3:42:13] several Excel sheets
>> all right and if I go to Waterworth
[3:42:17] software. I can probably see examples of
of and these are tailored to our city,
[3:42:22] right? Would it be?
>> So, it is kind of a um Yes. So, it's a
[3:42:26] no.
>> Is it completely out of the box or do we
[3:42:28] have our
>> It's out of the box, but then we can
[3:42:30] customize some things and add some
add-ons if we wanted to later.
[3:42:33] » Okay.
>> But this was just to get to a base
[3:42:36] scenario and look at it. Um
yeah, so because I would like to get
[3:42:41] Tammy trained on this, like it would not
just be me. Is she going to upload the
[3:42:44] data? And I'm hoping there's an API with
be with badger beacon that can transport
[3:42:49] it in.
>> I'm not opposed to this. You said one
[3:42:52] thing that got my got my interest to
just it makes your job easier.
[3:42:56] » Yeah.
>> And you do a lot of work and I
[3:42:57] appreciate that. So, I'm just curious.
>> And water is a weird um [clears throat]
[3:43:01] there's a lot of factors.
>> It's all squishy and wet.
[3:43:04] » We have kind of an Excel we have an
Excel um document that my team and
[3:43:09] Joseph's team fills out to try to
capture water loss,
[3:43:12] » right? and try to capture some of these
other items whereas this could probably
[3:43:16] just do it manually.
>> So you have already identified in your
[3:43:19] spreadsheet you've already identified
the things that you need versus the
[3:43:22] things that you want but to receive
after but so if you input data
[3:43:26] » so you you've already identified what
you can input and what you want after.
[3:43:29] » Yeah because it's basically just to keep
up with a continuous rate study an idea
[3:43:34] of what we need to do to make
>> May I see that?
[3:43:38] » Uh
>> not right now. Not right now.
[3:43:39] » Well there's several different ones.
There's ones that you guys work on and
[3:43:42] then put into it's a
>> mail to me if you don't mind if it's Is
[3:43:47] that okay?
>> I can I'll see what I can send you. Um
[3:43:50] some of it has accounts information. I
have to clean up. Forget it. Forget it.
[3:43:54] I don't
>> Sorry.
[3:43:55] » No, no, no, no. I don't want to get into
that. Okay. Thank you very much.
[3:43:57] » Yeah, I can give you some printouts with
some redactions maybe. But um
[3:44:01] » No, you've got enough on your plate.
Thank you.
[3:44:03] » And and you know, and I'll be honest
with you, because we are a small city
[3:44:06] and we're spread thin, it's probably not
as sophisticated as it needs to be,
[3:44:09] right? and this could help accomplish
that as well. Mine's probably a little
[3:44:13] bit more surface level than this because
even when we were talking about um the
[3:44:17] long-term financial model um I think
with TAMA coming on and with even more
[3:44:22] infrastructure that's my concern, right?
We've been operating kind of like on the
[3:44:27] same infrastructure count for a long
time and now we got some heavy new
[3:44:32] infrastructure and that's what I'm
worried about.
[3:44:35] » There's a potential to add more
>> to that here in the near future. show
[3:44:39] this.
>> So, you could build out scenarios like
[3:44:42] that, like, hey, if we were to add on
how many more people, how would that
[3:44:45] influence our rate structure or how you
know what the average consumer bill
[3:44:49] because you could kind of see what your
average consumer bill is and everything
[3:44:52] like that.
>> I think you should do it.
[3:44:56] » Just going to cut it short and say,
>> I support that. Anything that's going to
[3:44:59] help you make you do your job better and
you don't have to hire an employee to do
[3:45:02] » it's unlimited licenses, so team can be
on it, my team can be on it. It's
[3:45:07] unlimit licenses. So I think we should
do it.
[3:45:10] » Do they do any other thing as far as
other measurements that we are doing or
[3:45:15] monitoring? Can do can they expand or do
we have anything else?
[3:45:19] » We there was I scaled back the proposal
because some of the stuff was a little
[3:45:24] bit but we can always add it later. Um
there was some things that what was it?
[3:45:28] It was kind of a little weird.
>> Well, not as far as features of its
[3:45:32] ability. [clears throat]
>> Is there as it stands right now? Do does
[3:45:36] this company make anything else that we
currently have that we're
[3:45:40] » Oh, I I've never used them on
>> that. I don't know.
[3:45:44] » Yeah, we can ask them. We can always
explore it.
[3:45:47] » And it's a year-to-year contract. It's a
two No, it's a year to year. So, if
[3:45:52] » and this comes out of the uh enterprise.
>> Yeah, it'll come out of utility billings
[3:45:57] budget. I'll put it underneath the
Department of 51.
[3:45:59] » I'm all for it. Okay.
>> Yeah, definitely.
[3:46:03] [clears throat]
>> It's It's 98.50 50 a year. So, but it's
[3:46:06] only it's a year year, so it's even
cheaper.
[3:46:10] » All right.
>> Okay. Now, on to the fun stuff. Capital
[3:46:13] projects.
>> Capital projects.
[3:46:15] » So, MDD did approve two projects that
were on the list. It was additional
[3:46:19] funding for some roadway projects um
because there's some that might need
[3:46:23] additional funding. So, they just
earmarked 500,000 for that. And the
[3:46:27] second was to approve the design to
figure out the pool amenity and some
[3:46:32] other features at the pool because that
pool is agent and we need to look at
[3:46:35] some of the things over there. So that
was about 75,000.
[3:46:39] » Yeah, there's a lot of factors going on
over there.
[3:46:42] » So they approved those two projects. Um
the projects that we have for the
[3:46:47] general fund. Um,
sorry.
[3:46:54] I'm not used to this mouse, so it's
freaking me out. Okay. Uh, yeah.
[3:46:59] So, the projects we have to talk about
for um general fund are going to be the
[3:47:04] Grogan Mills pathways design only for
1275.
[3:47:09] Um, city hall public works building
security infrastructure refresh with
[3:47:13] technology. That project can be funded
through three avenues. um the three
[3:47:18] funds and then for other general fund
projects it's the caliber public safety
[3:47:22] cloud data conversion Motorola command
central cloud migration and citybot
[3:47:26] communication platform citybot
communication platform can also be
[3:47:30] shared among funds so um I don't know
we'll just go in that order I guess
[3:47:35] grows pathway first [snorts]
so
[3:47:39] » yeah so the for the grow pathway it was
just a uh um initial idea to add
[3:47:47] pathways on Groven's Mill. I mean, we've
we have several options in there whether
[3:47:51] to add the pathways um coordinate with
the county on uh expanding the road to
[3:47:58] four lanes or just out of middle lane.
So, we have options on on Groen's Mill.
[3:48:04] Um I'm not
and this is my job. I don't like the
[3:48:08] project. I don't like the pathways. I
think it's not u um necessary. Uh it's
[3:48:16] $127,000 for this uh where we already
have pathways on on the other side. Uh
[3:48:22] but we can definitely use money to uh
look into other options that we can do
[3:48:27] on Groen's Mill.
>> Explain a pathway
[3:48:31] » like what?
>> Right.
[3:48:35] » It's on the east side of Millville.
>> It's a walking trail basically.
[3:48:39] » Oh.
>> Yeah. The idea is
[3:48:43] » I'm sitting here thinking of a street
that you create
[3:48:46] » on your side of the street.
>> Go ahead. Sorry.
[3:48:48] » So
>> any Shannon go aside?
[3:48:51] » Yeah.
>> On the east side.
[3:48:53] » That's not the project I thought we were
talking about.
[3:48:55] » And we've had conversations uh
previously with Commissioner Riley on on
[3:49:00] options that we can do on Groen's Mill.
I know recently Sam and I believe uh
[3:49:05] Mayor and Joseph had conversations with
uh Commission
[3:49:10] uh Commissioner Willer about about
Groven's Mill as well. So um
[3:49:15] I think we need to wait a little bit on
on on this. I I think we can postpone
[3:49:21] this because we still have to figure out
uh if we're able to take control of of
[3:49:28] Rogan's Mill and I think we should
consider this only when and if we have
[3:49:33] we get that
>> accomplished.
[3:49:35] » Correct.
>> So we can we could table this.
[3:49:38] » Y
>> I think that would be a wise move.
[3:49:42] And besides this is just this is just
for the uh
[3:49:46] » design
>> the design
[3:49:48] construction can cost upward of
>> Yeah. I say up there 850.
[3:49:53] » I would hate to spend over $100,000 for
something that is not ever going to be
[3:49:57] built.
>> Yeah. I think we can tell
[3:50:03] » construction
12750 construction on top of this.
[3:50:08] » You're talking about almost a million
dollar investment if you were to do it.
[3:50:11] tonight.
>> Give it to the police.
[3:50:14] » Business, man. I need to be an engineer.
>> Um, next is going to be city hall and
[3:50:19] public works building security
infrastructure refresh.
[3:50:25] » Is that me?
>> It's not anyone else. [laughter]
[3:50:30] » Not me.
>> Thank you, mayor and council. Um,
[3:50:35] [clears throat] real quick, what we've
been doing over the last couple of years
[3:50:38] is shifting all of our um, building
security, all of our surveillance
[3:50:43] cameras to a cloud-based system. And
that's worked out really well with our
[3:50:47] wastewater treatment plant, our lift
stations. And with that, we have
[3:50:51] security monitoring. Obviously, since we
don't have a um, police dispatch, we
[3:50:56] don't have people that man can watch
cameras 24/7. So, they do that for us.
[3:51:01] and it's proved itself out especially at
the wastewater treatment plant where
[3:51:04] we've had breakins and the motions get
alerted. It contacts law enforcement.
[3:51:09] It's been very effective and the service
the service has been excellent. Uh it's
[3:51:14] the same system we have again all the w
the all the water uh the treatment plant
[3:51:19] lift stations and at our um park. Uh so
this proposal is obviously um not
[3:51:26] stating the obvious but looks like we're
going to be in this building for a
[3:51:29] while. So, a lot of our infrastructure
is aging out and one of those things is
[3:51:32] our current building security and all of
our surveillance cameras which are about
[3:51:37] 15 years old. Um, [snorts] so this
proposal is to replace all of the
[3:51:43] building security systems, all the
cameras on the access control in this
[3:51:47] building with the same provider, the
same vendor, Verata. If you haven't
[3:51:51] heard that name, you can certainly look
them up. Um, and they would basically
[3:51:55] turnkey replace all of the equipment in
this building. Um the total cost for
[3:52:01] this building and all of the cameras at
public works uh is 240,000. And my
[3:52:08] recommendation would would be to break
this out into um a 5-year um operational
[3:52:17] cost. I think it's uh came out to 80
86,000 I believe per year. Around 80,000
[3:52:24] on do you have that break out there? If
it's 240 divide by five.
[3:52:28] » Yeah,
>> it 48.
[3:52:31] » I had I had a doctor.
>> Or was it by three?
[3:52:33] » I lost it wherever it went.
[clears throat]
[3:52:37] » Uh like I like I said, this system is
pretty old. The issue we're having now
[3:52:41] is that components are failing. We can't
get parts. We have to uh and we can't
[3:52:46] get updates on the system that we have
now. It's just it's obsolete. It's out
[3:52:50] of date. So, we're being forced into
really looking at replacing the
[3:52:55] infrastructure. Um, and not only that,
this kind of dubtales into the overall
[3:53:01] strategy of a lot of these systems that
are going to be moving out to the cloud,
[3:53:05] which we have done and going to continue
to do. So, this would also follow in
[3:53:09] line with that strategy that we will not
have to replace um like a video server
[3:53:15] in storage, which right now is
tremendously expensive. if if anybody's
[3:53:19] read any articles about the data centers
going in the tremendous cost of memory
[3:53:24] and storage. Um and so we would
eliminate that cost. So everything would
[3:53:28] be a cloud cloud-based. So that
eliminates buying um uh back-end
[3:53:34] infrastructure uh that in the future. Uh
so uh I think this is a very important
[3:53:40] project. Uh and we're kind of doing some
preparatory work when we do the HBAC
[3:53:45] tear out. We're rewiring this building,
bringing it up to Cat 6 cabling and
[3:53:50] updating the infrastructure, getting rid
of all the old CAT 3. So, we'll be
[3:53:54] taking care of some of the foundational
work during the HBAC project. So, when
[3:53:59] they come in, we'll be ready to go.
We'll be able to just change out
[3:54:01] hardware and um and within a few months
can be up and running on the new system.
[3:54:07] Uh so, I'd like, you know, if I could
get a consensus of what everybody feels
[3:54:11] like uh uh consideration for uh doing
this project. Let's do it.
[3:54:17] » Have you broken out just how what the
impact is on general fund, CVB and
[3:54:23] » so typically how when we do um building
projects like this, we do it based on a
[3:54:26] square footage. So I can get those
numbers. Um
[3:54:30] » those might change if CVB does leave.
>> Yeah,
[3:54:33] » we might have to consider that. But um I
can get those for you. I think it's
[3:54:38] typically like general funds like
usually 70%. It's based on square
[3:54:41] footage. Well, I think we should do
[snorts]
[3:54:44] » I think it's important that we have a
physical security of this building
[3:54:50] to the
>> I'm shocked that it's 15 years old.
[3:54:53] » So am I.
>> I can't believe that. Gosh,
[3:54:56] » Chris, what's the uh cost the upfront
cost versus the reoccurring maintenance?
[3:55:02] » Uh great question. Uh based on the
proposal, there's no upfront um cost. We
[3:55:07] basically would do a contract uh with
the provider. um for five years and that
[3:55:12] covers the total cost of the project. So
it's 478 by my calculation which would
[3:55:19] be so 50,000 a year for five years would
would cover the cost of the project. If
[3:55:23] we do it that route we can fund the
whole thing or do it in two phases split
[3:55:28] it in half.
>> So my question is what I'm getting at if
[3:55:31] it's
a one-time cost versus a reoccurring
[3:55:35] cost. Well, you're just a moreitizing
the project over
[3:55:40] » I was just trying to
>> if you did it all up front 20 well 2395
[3:55:46] » is what um the total project is
>> right so that would just be a onetime
[3:55:50] cost one time
>> onetime cost but there's no other
[3:55:54] » there's no other reoccurring fees
I apologize um the the only reoccurring
[3:56:00] fees are the uh annual service with
verata
[3:56:04] » subscription
>> the subscription cost and that would be
[3:56:06] regular operational. It's um it's a few
thousand a year. I'd have to I'd have to
[3:56:11] you know, we're paying it now. Uh it's
it's I think with each site it's less
[3:56:15] than a thousand. I think for this site
it probably a couple of thousand a year,
[3:56:18] two to three, thousand a year on my
estimation.
[3:56:20] » Okay. Um but I have to go back and and
verify that. But
[3:56:24] » but basically it seems like because it's
a high dollar amount, the Vicata is
[3:56:28] basically going to let youortitize the
contract cost so that you can so you can
[3:56:32] still consider as a project over a
fiveyear term. And then we can look at
[3:56:36] we can look each way.
>> Sure. All right.
[3:56:39] » What is the scope of the work that's
they're just saying that is it replacing
[3:56:44] cables? All the cables.
>> Uh no that we well the cabling is going
[3:56:48] to be done during the HBAC tear out.
We're going to we're going to rewire the
[3:56:51] building because we're tearing all the
ceiling out. So we're going to do that
[3:56:54] regardless if we did this. This needs to
be done. So uh I got with Joseph and
[3:56:58] there's some extra dollars to take care
of that. So when they come in, they'll
[3:57:01] just be replacing endpoint equipment,
all of the cameras, and then all of the
[3:57:05] uh like when you put your badge on the
HID readers, they're replacing all that
[3:57:09] all that infrastructure will get
replaced.
[3:57:12] » So you already know their specs for the
cabling that they use or they use what?
[3:57:16] » It's all cat 6. All the data cabling.
Yes.
[3:57:22] Is it unreasonable to to wonder if there
are other vendors to just it it seems
[3:57:27] like a large amount to just go straight
with I know we have a relationship with
[3:57:30] them and I appreciate that. Um do do you
have any idea what other vendors might
[3:57:34] charge for the same
>> Well the that's a good question. I guess
[3:57:37] the issue here is that we've already
chosen that path with verata and so if
[3:57:42] we went with another vendor just for the
sake of you know doing so we would be
[3:57:47] buying another separate the separate
system from what we have the idea is to
[3:57:51] funnel all the security into one
management system in the cloud so we've
[3:57:55] already kind of chosen that strategy
with verata they're very competitive the
[3:57:59] cambers have a 10-year warranty on them
um just based on what the projects we've
[3:58:03] done um I don't believe there could be
some cost savings if we did something
[3:58:09] separate, but uh based on the cost of
the equipment, I don't really think that
[3:58:13] there's going to be um a disparity
between one vendor and another uh as far
[3:58:19] as the the in the end equipment goes. Uh
the standard equip like we're using HID
[3:58:23] readers which is pretty much industry
standard. Um and then we currently have
[3:58:27] access cameras, we be moving to Vicotta
cameras.
[3:58:31] » Did Vicott did they bid their own
project to you? So you could so you have
[3:58:35] a breakdown of what's going to happen,
what it's going to cost, what it's going
[3:58:37] to cover.
>> Yes. So the vendor the vendor that would
[3:58:40] do the work, the partner for varata is
databox.
[3:58:43] » Okay.
>> Uh so that's that's the ver the local
[3:58:46] partner for varata. And we use datab box
for other for other uh have used them
[3:58:50] for other projects,
>> but they're the sole source for for
[3:58:54] Verata.
And so what I do is when IATA, they push
[3:58:59] their quotes through databox [snorts]
and databox supplies the quote to us.
[3:59:04] You said we've already decided on the on
the uh concept. Have we already paid for
[3:59:09] I'm asking this because I don't know um
if if this is going into the cloud. I
[3:59:13] mean there there are tons of cloud
servers and I'm I'm not I'm not trying
[3:59:16] to get into your business. Please
understand but uh for a for this feels
[3:59:21] like a capital expenditure to me from
the business side of things. I would
[3:59:24] love to see two other quotes.
>> Well understood. Uh now the verata
[3:59:28] system obviously it's their own it's
their own cloud. It's not like we can
[3:59:32] take their data and push it somewhere
else. It's a service.
[3:59:34] » There are plenty of cloud providers and
plenty of companies that have their own
[3:59:37] cloud and they should they should be
also is ISO ISO 2 T7001.
[3:59:41] They just should be their minimum of
their security ranges for this. This is
[3:59:44] typical in a industry standard. I just
>> Sure.
[3:59:46] » I just it's a big purchase and we're
we're we're we're pinching pennies
[3:59:50] because we have a little bit of a
>> and we're talking about talking about
[3:59:54] altering our reserve policies because we
have a little bit of a challenge with
[3:59:58] our budget. I'm even if even if somebody
else was 10% different, that's 24 grand
[4:00:05] that could I don't know go somewhere.
I'm not saying I'm not saying
[4:00:08] [clears throat] we shouldn't use these
guys. I would just love to see I don't
[4:00:11] know some uh some other competent
industry. Uh
[4:00:16] I understand your point definitely, but
it just just reiterating it's a sole
[4:00:20] source product. If you're you're using
Vicata, you're using their service.
[4:00:25] You're using you can't use AWS. You're
you're buying their cameras. That camera
[4:00:30] footage goes to their security service,
their cloud service. It's a whole
[4:00:35] platform. So, we would go into the same
portal that all the other cameras that
[4:00:39] we have now.
>> Well, if we continue using their portal
[4:00:41] at three grand a year, if the if the
greater project is $240,000, I'm not
[4:00:46] particularly personally worried about
3,000 bucks. I'm saying there are other
[4:00:50] security options. I think in a city like
Houston there must be can
[4:00:55] » well sure there there are other products
>> when can I ask a question when we chose
[4:00:59] Ricotta because we're currently using uh
what what aspects of their service right
[4:01:05] now
>> at all of our other all the other
[4:01:08] facilities that we have
>> so we're currently using it when we what
[4:01:11] was the process to choose Ricotta did we
go through process
[4:01:14] » through Vicata we did we looked at
several different systems um at the time
[4:01:19] and you know that was kind of a strategy
that we adopted and as we bring in the
[4:01:24] water bring the water plants online
we're we're adding that the the idea
[4:01:29] » so this is an add-on
>> that was about a year
[4:01:31] » my point that I'm getting at is that we
did go through a process
[4:01:35] » yes
>> of choosing this this
[4:01:37] » and this is an add-on to that
>> and that this is an add
[4:01:39] » sure and so we have
>> you were aware that we they went through
[4:01:43] » so are we contractually obligated to
them for
[4:01:45] » oh no no we but but the so the point is
it it's not it's not advantageous to the
[4:01:52] city to buy a separate system. If we
were going to do that, then
[4:01:55] » you know, we would stick we would stay
with we we're on Genitech, so we have
[4:01:59] our own server locally here. We have our
own video storage locally here. And we
[4:02:04] we pay for licensing for Genitech
software, which is a security and video
[4:02:08] service. That's what runs the cameras
and runs all the access control. We're
[4:02:13] we need to replace all that. And so
since we the infrastructure is outdated,
[4:02:18] we want to get away. It's it's it's time
to go ahead and move city hall to the
[4:02:23] same system that we're using everywhere
else. If council chooses not to do that,
[4:02:27] then we buy a whole another system and
do something separate. But that
[4:02:31] » it sounds like we're buying a whole
another system already.
[4:02:34] » We are, but we're we're basically adding
we're adding cameras to the existing
[4:02:40] service that we already have. So, we're
adding cameras at a4 million dollars to
[4:02:43] the existing service of three grand a
year to servers that already exist to a
[4:02:47] company that we're comfortable with and
already using.
[4:02:49] » Well, not comfortable. We've already
committed to it.
[4:02:52] » If we're if we're contractually
committed, then this is a different
[4:02:55] sounds to me like we're you're really
what you're doing is upgrading.
[4:03:00] That's
>> Yes. But I want to be clear, we're not
[4:03:02] contractually committed, right?
>> We we we chose a vendor, a specific
[4:03:07] vendor, a specific service, just like if
you have Ring cameras at your house. I
[4:03:10] get it. Yeah.
>> And so we chose Verata as a cloud
[4:03:15] security service because they had 10ear
warranties on their cameras. They
[4:03:20] provided 24-hour monitoring for our
critical infrastructure, which we would
[4:03:24] have to have paid for separately if we
went with a some type of provider that
[4:03:29] would provide monitoring services. So we
we've bought that service and we put it
[4:03:34] at all of our other sites. And so we
want to take this building and add to
[4:03:40] that service as opposed to buying a
whole different system. So then if we
[4:03:45] did that, we can do that, but then we
would have vericotta running at all
[4:03:48] these sites and we would have whatever
we buy here
[4:03:51] » separately. But we're going to upgrade
all those sites, not just here. We
[4:03:55] already have verata everywhere. We're
we're taking this building and we're
[4:04:00] » up to adding it to the Vcata. We're
going to put Vcata cameras in this
[4:04:04] building.
>> Now I understand. So the other sites
[4:04:06] already have the latest and greatest
cameras?
[4:04:08] » Yes, sir.
>> And we're not upgrading any of those?
[4:04:10] » No, sir.
>> Different conversation. Thank you very
[4:04:11] much.
>> Correct.
[4:04:12] » Right. Right. And that that was the
history I was going to bring up is we
[4:04:16] Chris and I looked at this a year and a
half ago, two years ago when we made the
[4:04:20] switch for Cata and the the impetus was
at one of our water plants,
[4:04:26] somebody broke in and stole a fuse from
the generator
[4:04:29] » twice. Twice, which doesn't sound like a
big deal, but that fuse cost 45,000.
[4:04:35] We we could have paid for and and I and
I I did pitch this prior to that and
[4:04:40] there was some opinions, you know, and
understandably that some people just
[4:04:43] didn't think cameras were effective, you
know, and and and that's [clears throat]
[4:04:48] fine. At the very least, it's an
investigative tool. Even if you see the
[4:04:51] person running away, it's [snorts] at
least it gives you a lead. It's it's
[4:04:55] better than nothing.
>> I believe cameras are effective. I
[4:04:57] believe they're important. I believe
>> [clears throat]
[4:04:59] » $240,000 is a lot of money. Even if we
had two separate services and it saved
[4:05:02] us 50 grand, I would be interested. I I
mostly would just like to hear and this
[4:05:07] is the reason a lot of companies get
very complacent and very comfortable
[4:05:11] working with municipalities and and
they're very comfortable and happy to
[4:05:15] just do whatever with their prices. I'm
not saying this these guys are. I'm not.
[4:05:19] Please understand.
>> No, I understand.
[4:05:20] » Um but just to keep them honest,
>> not that they're being dishonest. Uh,
[4:05:26] hell, I would just love to see another
quote and and let them know, hey, hey,
[4:05:31] you guys, another company quoted against
you. They were only 10 grand under.
[4:05:35] We're not saying you need to change your
prices, but we're letting you know for
[4:05:37] your own edification that in the future,
you know, you guys are not as
[4:05:41] competitive as you may have thought you
were. That's it. Understanding. Other
[4:05:44] than that, I support everything about
this. I just would like for them to know
[4:05:48] if they're overshooting us a little bit
and taking advantage of a good
[4:05:52] relationship. I'm not saying they are
>> the only thing I could do which I kind
[4:05:57] this because we have this relationship
with other vendors kind of like HP
[4:06:00] » sure
>> you know I if I buy HP servers and I've
[4:06:03] ran into this problem I have different
vendors so I approached [snorts] the
[4:06:06] vendor and I try to say I'll go to datab
box and I said give me a quote for three
[4:06:10] new servers then I go over to SHI and I
ask give me a quote for three new
[4:06:13] servers
>> well what happens is
[4:06:16] » they actually talk to HP
>> okay
[4:06:18] » and HP generates the spec and they
already know that I get a quote from
[4:06:23] datavox and it's really a weird deal
because then what happens is it turns
[4:06:27] into this conflict and they all come
back with the exact same price
[4:06:29] » describing sounds a little unethical not
on your part
[4:06:33] » well it it's just it's the way some of
these vendors work and I totally
[4:06:36] understand because
>> I get it and because of the way these
[4:06:38] vendors work I just would like to see a
quote
[4:06:40] » the only thing I could do is go to
another vendor that deals in Vicata and
[4:06:43] ask them to requote it
>> but I would get the exact same quote
[4:06:47] » it's okay to it's okay to even consider
a completely different system the fact
[4:06:51] is you could have homes right next to
each other with completely different
[4:06:53] security systems and still get alerts
from either one. I'm not saying that's
[4:06:57] what we want to do.
I'm going to let this go, but but but I
[4:07:02] would just love to see another quote
because it feels like a lot and maybe
[4:07:05] it's not.
>> Well, uh so this building between this
[4:07:09] building and and city hall, we have 50
50 cameras. Okay.
[4:07:12] » Which is a lot. And then um building
control um it's 20 20 something.
[4:07:17] » So they're eight grand a piece or
something like that or three grand a
[4:07:20] piece. depend there's between 6 and
8,000 a piece the cameras but they have
[4:07:24] a 10-year warranty which is
unprecedented so if anything happens to
[4:07:27] them they replace them
>> where okay where are they made who's the
[4:07:30] where are they manufactured besides
>> makes their own cameras China where are
[4:07:33] they located I could have to dig into
some details for you on that
[4:07:36] » okay I'm good I just
I I'm going to I'll support this I just
[4:07:42] I love seeing various quotes it makes me
a little nervous and scared when we have
[4:07:46] such a good relationship with a vendor
that we don't even bother getting quotes
[4:07:48] » no I and I totally understand your point
If it makes you feel any better, people
[4:07:51] that know me know it. I beat up I I hate
to use that word beat up, but I I I'm
[4:07:55] pretty aggressive with our vendors.
>> Five bucks, I'll kneecap on them. I'm
[4:07:58] just
>> No, I am because knows right now they're
[4:08:02] they're choking everybody out with cost
of of hardware. Um just putting in
[4:08:06] perspective, we pushed we I don't want
to belabor the this topic, but so our
[4:08:13] storage, our regular data storage was up
for replacement this year.
[4:08:17] Um
and a a system that should have cost
[4:08:21] around 80,000
>> okay
[4:08:24] » was 200 and just quarter of a million
dollars
[4:08:27] » from whom?
>> From HP.
[4:08:29] » Okay. Yeah, I believe that.
>> And just because of the cost of of of
[4:08:33] technology, a computer we a desktop PC
we were paying $800 for a couple years
[4:08:40] ago,
>> okay,
[4:08:41] » is $2,300 today. That's the reality of
where we're at. And that's with anything
[4:08:46] it related.
>> So even even if a quote supported and
[4:08:50] showed how amazing the prices were,
wouldn't wouldn't you feel better? Hey
[4:08:52] man, I'm save 50 grand going with these
guys.
[4:08:54] » Absolutely.
>> So So would it cost anything to get
[4:08:56] another quote?
>> Well, there again, we're talking about
[4:09:00] have to put an RFP for a completely
different system.
[4:09:04] It's not advant I don't see it as
advantageous to us to look at a
[4:09:08] different system. The idea is to bring
everything together in one cloud, one
[4:09:13] platform. If if council chooses to do
that, then we can go a whole another
[4:09:18] route. But ultimately for my preference
is
[4:09:23] add to the system that we're
>> I am 100% sure council's got your back.
[4:09:26] Me personally, I just love to see
quotes. But
[4:09:28] » understood.
>> We are where we are.
[4:09:29] » Okay.
[4:09:33] » So consensus.
>> I think [laughter] we should I think we
[4:09:36] should take the staff's recommendation,
put this in the budget.
[4:09:40] » We've been through a process. We we have
a policy on how to appropriate funds. We
[4:09:45] also have a policy on how to spend them.
>> We went through that process, did we
[4:09:50] not?
>> Yes.
[4:09:51] » Okay. And I think that uh I I see no
reason in asking a staff member to go
[4:09:56] through another drill or exercise that's
not going to really prove anything.
[4:10:03] So, put it in the budget. That's my
recommendation. So, do we want to look
[4:10:07] at a five-year
schedule or do you want to just do a
[4:10:13] straight up 240?
>> That's not I mean that's totally up the
[4:10:15] council. So, they gave me a three a
threeyear and a fiveyear or we purchase
[4:10:19] it however they want to do it. They
they've just given us
[4:10:21] » proposed breaking out over
>> amateurization options. So, it's a less
[4:10:25] impact to our cash,
>> you know, uh for our budget. We we can
[4:10:29] break it up.
>> We have consensus on going with this.
[4:10:31] Now we have to decide on
>> what the amount of money to pull.
[4:10:35] » You're basically just scheduling the
project over five years.
[4:10:38] » Yes.
>> So you go.
[4:10:40] » So it's 61,000 a year. Is that
>> Well, currently it's for a 5year. I
[4:10:45] think it's it's just under 50 a year. 40
>> 4400. Yeah.
[4:10:49] » But because it's a project cost, we can
do it out of cash.
[4:10:52] » Well, I would say if they're offering
it, keep your cash and get some interest
[4:10:56] out of it.
>> Yes.
[4:10:59] » So we can look at that.
>> Yeah. That's why I was really pushing to
[4:11:02] » break it out
benefit from the earnings that we
[4:11:06] » Yes. we keep back
>> and then also it can help us because if
[4:11:08] CBB does move out we haven't committed
them to the full account and we can
[4:11:13] everything's falling apart.
>> Yeah.
[4:11:14] » And then we can like you know Okay. So
we'll do fiveyear. Okay. Yes.
[4:11:19] » But I want you to know I I appreciate
everything you're saying and and I like
[4:11:22] the points that you bring and I want you
to know that that I'm in this I'm with
[4:11:26] you on that.
>> No hard feelings man. I I come from a
[4:11:28] from a business world and and I would be
scared to death to give it to my boss
[4:11:32] with a a cost like that without other
quotes.
[4:11:36] » Understood.
>> Just just as plain as that.
[4:11:40] » Okay. Do you want to take a break at all
or not?
[4:11:42] » Move on.
>> But but I'm sure they're good. You guys
[4:11:44] are very confident what you do. I'm sure
they're good. I was just curious.
[4:11:48] » Okay. So, of course, I lost my mouse
again in here. Okay. Next project. No,
[4:11:54] it's it it's because there's like three
screens on the back side.
[4:11:58] » Okay. So, the next one would be the
caliber public safety cloud data
[4:12:01] conversion.
>> Um, sorry, Chris, you're up again.
[4:12:04] » Yeah,
>> you want me to lead on quicker?
[4:12:07] » I I can I can I can lead off with it,
but I'm going to have you help me with
[4:12:12] some of this stuff.
>> Technology is a little fun. Yeah,
[4:12:14] technology is not my strong suit, but I
I can definitely
[4:12:20] talk about uh the process and everything
as far as uh the decision to try to go
[4:12:25] to another uh RMS system. The RMS system
is a report management system. So, this
[4:12:31] is where we take our reports and and put
them inside the system. Um so
[4:12:39] um
currently we use Tyler Technologies.
[4:12:44] Tyler Technologies is a
it was designed for a large agency that
[4:12:52] has a [snorts] dispatch center
along um with their patrol. And so they
[4:13:00] have to enter in a dis a dispatch call
uh and then select that and put it into
[4:13:07] uh where patrol can access it. We don't
have a dispatch center. So these guys
[4:13:13] are having to create a dispatch call
like they're dispatcher and then enter
[4:13:18] it into uh another area where the they
can select it. That's redundancy. And
[4:13:26] there's tons of redundancy in in this
system that we're currently doing, which
[4:13:30] wastes time. And time when it comes to
law enforcement is crucial. The more
[4:13:35] time that we have,
the more time we can be out there on
[4:13:39] patrol. So this system has wasted so
much time. These guys have complained
[4:13:45] and complained and complained about the
system. I said I have to me I have uh no
[4:13:52] skin in the game when it comes to to
these systems. We built a committee and
[4:13:56] the committee consists of
admin. It uh Lieutenant Poland, it
[4:14:02] consisted of patrolman and it consisted
of the the C uh investigations and they
[4:14:09] went through several systems. They
looked at several of them and this is
[4:14:14] the one they came out with. It is a
substantially cheaper company. Uh but it
[4:14:20] has everything that they need. I told
them that the only thing that I expected
[4:14:23] is I can generate some [clears throat]
reports that I can show to council and
[4:14:28] that's said that's that's all that that
I care about. That's the only skin in
[4:14:31] the game I have in it. But if it can can
uh reduce the amount of time that they
[4:14:38] uh spend on doing reports and cut out
the redundancy, I'm all for it.
[4:14:44] So, I'll let Chris kind of give some
more examples about it and he can speak
[4:14:48] more to the technical side of it.
>> Well, from a dollar standpoint, we're
[4:14:52] already paying for software. Really, the
only thing that this is an increase of
[4:14:55] is the initial migration cost. So, the
requesting funded amount is a onetime
[4:15:00] cost for migrating all the existing data
from Tyler to Caliber training and go
[4:15:07] live support. Uh the annual subscription
cost or estimated 20,000 a year. uh
[4:15:13] [clears throat] the recurring annual
cost already budgeted for the title RMS
[4:15:17] system which is around 25,000. So
caliber is a net savings. So really all
[4:15:22] we're doing is the upfront cost for
migration. Uh which was uh what did I
[4:15:28] say? 20,000
>> 40
[4:15:31] » no 40,000 I'm sorry 40,400 for the
migration cost. And then we're and then
[4:15:36] our annual cost is less than what we're
paying for Tyler now. And we've been on
[4:15:41] that system for 5 years. We bought that
system that also included all of our
[4:15:45] ticket riders and handhelds. That was a
5-year contract. That contract was up uh
[4:15:51] last year, I think.
>> So, we're free to move away from from
[4:15:55] that system. We're not bound any longer
to uh to Tyler.
[4:16:01] » Will Caliber be able to handle all the
ancillary services like the ticket?
[4:16:07] » We will still maintain uh Tyler owns
Brazil
[4:16:12] which is most agencies use Brazers.
We will still maintain bra the brazas
[4:16:18] park for the ticketing system. So the
brazes handheld they upload their
[4:16:23] tickets to the county.
>> Correct.
[4:16:26] » And that's how they're handled. So we
will still maintain those.
[4:16:30] » Uh but it has nothing
>> uh no sir. Uh we will have to pay uh a
[4:16:36] small amount to Tyler for the cloud
service for uh the Brazes technologies.
[4:16:43] Uh but other than that we will not be
using their software at all.
[4:16:50] » Comments.
>> I think it's good. Good. Yeah. It's like
[4:16:55] I agree.
>> I'm all for it.
[4:16:58] » Yes.
>> I think anything that will facilitate
[4:17:02] the process and save you time.
>> Well, their productivity as well. You
[4:17:06] can't put it down.
>> Yeah. You know,
[4:17:09] » I've been in the field with those guys
and I see them cussing about it. I mean,
[4:17:12] they hate
>> they they absolutely hate this system.
[4:17:14] » Don't ask Mark, you know.
>> Yeah. You know,
[4:17:17] » no, they hated this system that we're
currently on. It was
[4:17:22] » a good saying I like is you never truly
know somebody well enough till you live
[4:17:25] with them for a little while.
>> And if anybody has experience with
[4:17:28] software, sometimes that's the case.
Sometimes you don't know that. You don't
[4:17:31] know the questions to ask until you see
it. Oh, I didn't I didn't realize that
[4:17:35] was a problem because even when you demo
something, that's why I don't like
[4:17:38] demoing software. It's just never it's
never a true representation what you're
[4:17:41] getting. You have to really really dig
into it. But it is web based too. So
[4:17:46] there again, one less server we have. So
we're moving everything out to the
[4:17:50] cloud. So less less overhead for us
here.
[4:17:54] » Any additional questions or comments
[4:17:59] consensus?
>> Yes. Okay.
[4:18:05] » City bond.
>> Uh well, we got one more PD.
[4:18:09] Well, city bike
>> the Motorola command.
[4:18:12] » Oh, okay. Here we go.
>> Sorry, Chris. Go ahead.
[4:18:14] » No, it's all right.
So, all of our incar video, this is all
[4:18:19] of the car, the body cams and the end
car videos. Motorola, which used to be
[4:18:23] Watch Guard is watch Motorola bought
WatchGuard several years ago. Uh, so
[4:18:28] that's the systems we have in our cars
now. It's good technology. Um, one of
[4:18:33] one of the better ones and then probably
the two main ones out there, Motorola
[4:18:36] and Axon. Um, one of the one of the
benefits of Motorola was they allowed
[4:18:40] you to keep your own onremise um,
software server and then uh, we have a
[4:18:46] large storage array disc 60 terabytes.
Seems like a lot but it's it's not I
[4:18:52] guess compared to some other agencies
where we store all that video. Um, what
[4:18:57] Roll is basically telling us now they're
going to end support for the onremise
[4:19:01] portion of the software
uh, in a year or so. So basically what
[4:19:06] they're doing is they're like these
other vendors, they're forcing you to
[4:19:09] make a decision. So they're going to
basically force you into their cloud. So
[4:19:13] either today or tomorrow, uh you're
going to have to subscribe to their
[4:19:20] proprietary service for because that's
where all your video goes. Um in in
[4:19:26] essence, we're going to be uh as we're
going to be turn it into a $50,000 a
[4:19:32] year operational cost. That's what it
will cost us annually now and forever
[4:19:38] and obviously that's going to increase
yearbyear but uh that's going to be the
[4:19:43] cost of uh using these cloud services
for uploading the video. So we will
[4:19:48] convert our existing hardware to then
upload to Motorola's cloud. Uh and
[4:19:54] [snorts] that will get rid of
replacement costs for local storage
[4:19:58] which by using the analogy I left I gave
you a little earlier if I had to replace
[4:20:02] that storage today it'd be about six5 to
$600,000 to replace the current storage
[4:20:08] in today's prices which is absurd. And
I'm sure nobody here would want to pony
[4:20:12] up to replace that. So uh this is a good
move for us to go ahead and do this. So
[4:20:19] we get rid of our local infrastructure
cost. The server and the storage goes
[4:20:23] away. All the video goes into the cloud
and then police can access the video
[4:20:28] their evidence software in the cloud. Uh
when we move to this system
[4:20:35] uh see the data migration upfront costs
for the first year are included in the
[4:20:39] requested funding amount. Continued an
annual subscription will be 43,675
[4:20:46] and this is on a five-year contract.
Total contract is 235,724
[4:20:51] and I can guarantee you with a 100% that
that will increase after 5 years based
[4:20:57] on you know even if it's the standard 6
to 7%. We can anticipate that and then
[4:21:03] of course it's going to it's going to
vary based on how big our agency gets to
[4:21:07] the amount of data that we need. It'll
it'll just grow. So this is definitely
[4:21:11] one of those
uh cost of doing business unfortunately.
[4:21:17] So I'm definitely interested to hear
some feedback on on that.
[4:21:20] » So chief um the data on these this video
um is it sometimes evidence?
[4:21:30] » It submitted as evidence.
>> Yes, it is. And so anytime we have open
[4:21:35] records, which is constant,
you have three officers on scene. Well,
[4:21:41] you think, well, that's just three
cameras. It's not.
[4:21:44] » It's six cameras. So, you have to pull
six cameras of information, store that
[4:21:48] information.
>> Yeah. So the the amount of storage that
[4:21:53] you have to have to to maintain all this
stuff it's I I don't see
[4:22:00] future wise all these data centers and
everything I I just don't see that
[4:22:04] that's a sustainable thing
>> because the amount of information all
[4:22:08] these cameras information that we have
>> concerns are all about chain of custody
[4:22:12] you know for control of evidence or
anything. No sir, the these are all
[4:22:17] with with the cloud and everything. This
this is all what they're going to.
[4:22:22] » Okay.
>> We have no control over that. Axon's
[4:22:25] going to eventually and going to Axon
>> they're their cameras are
[4:22:31] » it's incredible cost.
>> The cost is just astronomical going to
[4:22:34] Axon. So, we're trying to go with the
cheaper option with Motorola because we
[4:22:39] we had Watch Guard, which Watchguard, of
course, he said they were bought out by
[4:22:44] Motorola, but Axon
>> do well.
[4:22:47] » Yeah, they they have, you know,
Motorola's Motorola, you know, they make
[4:22:52] a good product. However, you know, when
you kind try to do customer service, it
[4:22:56] it's a pain. But it is what it is.
>> To Summer's point, and this is one thing
[4:23:01] I don't like. I don't like this at all
because you're you're you're held
[4:23:05] hostage
>> by the vendor
[4:23:08] » and you know you take take a city of
Houston I don't know what they're using
[4:23:12] but can you imagine the pabytes which
large amounts of data that they have to
[4:23:18] store you can't move to another vendor
you you simply can't you basically have
[4:23:23] to say I need to move all this data to
oh we want to move to you know from
[4:23:29] watchguard or motorola to Axon well if
you're a city of Houston size. I I can't
[4:23:34] even fathom that. I just don't even
think it's it's practical. And a lot of
[4:23:38] this video, some of the video, depending
on what it is, can be kept for as long
[4:23:42] as 75 years. 75 years.
>> Wow.
[4:23:46] » And you have to maintain that video and
you have to migrate it and move it. So
[4:23:50] this this is new since incar video and
all that. A lot of people don't know
[4:23:54] about this and think about this all the
backend that's involved in that. So
[4:23:58] [clears throat] even if we kept the
video here, every let's just say every
[4:24:02] six years, every seven years when we
have to replace the storage, we have to
[4:24:06] migrate that data to the new system and
then keep migrating that data for years
[4:24:11] and years and years for however long
that retention is. And so yeah, I just I
[4:24:18] just I know it's a lot, but I just want
to put it in perspective so everybody
[4:24:21] understands what what's actually
happening on the back in the background.
[4:24:25] So once you move to the cloud, you're
basically signing. I mean, you're you're
[4:24:29] signed up.
>> Yeah. And it's unfortunate, but Axon and
[4:24:33] Motorola, they're monopolizing the
market. They're purchasing everything
[4:24:37] law enforcement. [clears throat] Those
two companies are in competition and
[4:24:40] they're purchasing everything law
enforcement related.
[4:24:44] » Who's uh who's doing the migration of
our current data?
[4:24:48] » Uh or you talking about the video?
>> Yeah.
[4:24:50] » Well, uh Motorola will do I mean we
we're on Motorola system that's we have
[4:24:55] Motorola now
>> we do have an on-remise server and on
[4:24:58] premise storage they will migrate the
existing video to the cloud service
[4:25:04] » and then our on-remise storage and
server will go away
[4:25:08] » okay and that's what that's kind of the
question I was going to ask go away is
[4:25:12] sort of ambiguous who's going to destroy
those that data that data storage medium
[4:25:16] so it can't be exploited
>> we'll we'll uh we'll wipe it we'll do a
[4:25:21] a multi- uh multi- tier white destroy
that that array that that disc will be
[4:25:27] will be probably cleaned up and I'll do
that myself. It's our array but
[4:25:33] » then what happens with it
>> uh destroy the disc out of it. Usually I
[4:25:38] pull them out and physically drill
through them.
[4:25:40] » Perfect. Okay, that's that's where it's
headed. Thank you.
[4:25:48] » Sounds like we don't have a choice.
I never like to use that term,
[4:25:53] » but you you you can stay with them for a
little while longer and then ultimately
[4:25:57] you're going to end up buying something
else that's going to do the same thing.
[4:25:59] That's why we avoided Axon.
>> Axon was really expensive. Um I think we
[4:26:05] got a bid for at our time it was less
vehicles too and I think it was
[4:26:09] 7 800,000.
>> It was ridiculous.
[4:26:12] » And then they're on a fiveyear contract.
So, basically what they do is that they
[4:26:15] say, "Okay, we're going to outfit all
your cars with new systems, and we're
[4:26:20] going to give you body cams, and you're
going to sign a 5-year contract, and
[4:26:24] we'll give you new body cams after two
and a half years because they just wear
[4:26:27] out. They just, you know, wear and tear.
And then after 5 years, we're going to
[4:26:32] replace all your video systems." But
basically, what you're doing is it when
[4:26:35] you're getting new cars, you're getting
new systems. So, you're on a perpetual
[4:26:39] contract. I mean, and they don't offer
an on-remise solution. you sign up,
[4:26:44] you're you're on their service and
you're you're pretty much bound to them
[4:26:48] at that point.
>> So, and for your information, Taser is
[4:26:54] that's Axon.
>> Axon Yeah.
[4:26:58] » owns Taser.
>> So, they I mean those two companies are
[4:27:02] competing for everything.
[4:27:07] » All right.
[4:27:11] Consensus on that. Yeah.
[4:27:17] » Yeah.
>> Well, Jim, that that sounds like
[4:27:19] » that sounds so grim when you say it that
way.
[4:27:21] » Yeah,
>> it is. [clears throat]
[4:27:23] » It is to be honest with you.
>> All right.
[4:27:27] » Yeah. Uh, city bot.
>> All right. One more. [laughter]
[4:27:33] Um, real quick, I know some of us have a
lovehate relationship with our um, uh,
[4:27:39] autoattendant in our phone system.
Charlie, you could.
[4:27:42] » Yeah, very much so.
>> See, going to get rid of that and start
[4:27:46] hiring some people to answer the phones.
Is that
[4:27:48] » Well, hey, that's not my department,
Jim. Uh, but uh [laughter]
[4:27:52] » answering,
Jim. You know,
[4:27:55] » I So, I understand is that, you know,
some people have the opinion that they
[4:27:58] want a live person to answer the phone
all the time.
[4:28:01] » It's a department of first impressions.
>> AB: Absolutely. U the reality of it is
[4:28:07] besides Jackie, there really only two
people that can answer the phone um when
[4:28:12] general calls come in. And so and and
unfortunately those people wear multiple
[4:28:17] hats. So they're not always at their
desk. So if you call and you have a
[4:28:20] utility billing question, who who's in
charge of utility billing? Well, main is
[4:28:25] Tammy and then Lisa, the phone will roll
to Lisa, but Tammy wears multiple hats,
[4:28:30] so she's not always at her desk to
answer the phone. So, they're going to
[4:28:33] get a voicemail and some people don't
like that.
[4:28:36] » I don't I'm not trying to tell you what
the solution is to that. It's just
[4:28:41] really it's a people problem. Uh public
works questions will get directed to
[4:28:45] Leslie. And so, if neither of them at
their at their desk to answer the
[4:28:49] phones, they're going to roll a
voicemail. And then some people just
[4:28:52] don't like leaving a voicemail. They can
choose to go back to the auto attendant,
[4:28:56] which rings back the front desk, but
you're back to square one again. if Jen
[4:29:00] is well not Jen anymore, but if uh Jen
was on the phone, then you're going to
[4:29:05] get the voicemail there or uh she'll
answer and then try to answer your
[4:29:10] question. So, I said all this to say we
did look the mayor and I and uh Sam, we
[4:29:16] and Joseph, I think you were in that
meeting. We looked at a um people know
[4:29:21] how I feel about AI. Uh but we did look
at a uh an AI assistant, a chatbot. And
[4:29:28] what this would do would provide a
conversational piece for our customers.
[4:29:33] So when you call in, instead of getting
an autoended, it would answer and the
[4:29:38] the AI bot will have access to all the
information on the city's website. It's
[4:29:44] not open to the internet. So if you have
a question that uh you would like the AI
[4:29:50] bot to answer, it will uh parse all the
information, all the data on our website
[4:29:55] and can provide answers to the
customers.
[4:29:57] um in in addition to direct the phone
call to the appropriate department. But
[4:30:02] what we're trying to avoid is a dead end
for the phone call. We want the we want
[4:30:07] the bot to be more interactive with our
customers. This is a good way to, you
[4:30:13] know, if council wanted to hire another
person and put another position for
[4:30:17] somebody just to answer the phone,
that's certainly an option. Uh this is
[4:30:20] an inexpensive option and it gives our
customers access to um frequently asked
[4:30:25] questions. Um, it's it's it's more
open-ended. Plus, it provides a a chat
[4:30:31] bot on our website that people can also
use and provide them information uh for
[4:30:37] uh for any any questions they might
have. Uh
[4:30:41] I I mayor gave a little feedback because
he sat in on that demo and and what he
[4:30:45] thought of it. Um
the the city bot.
[4:30:51] » Yeah, I think that's better than the
alternative.
[4:30:55] I certainly
>> can you make it sound like John Wayne?
[4:30:59] » I could I was going to say
>> I was going to say make it sound like
[4:31:02] John Escato
>> and you can do that. They actually had
[4:31:05] some cities where the voice was the
mayor's voice.
[4:31:07] » I think it' be fantastic and we have
plenty of audio from all the council
[4:31:10] meetings so you could you could use to
>> Yeah. I can't remember what city that
[4:31:14] was, but it was the mayor's voice.
>> It was it was
[4:31:18] » but it's a very conversational tone. I
my my personal opinion is I I was
[4:31:23] impressed, you know, cuz I' i've dealt
with some chat bots with different
[4:31:26] companies and some are pretty horrible.
This one is a very conversational
[4:31:30] » actually quite good. They're loose.
They're fluent. They're actually quite
[4:31:32] good. They were
>> I mean, you could tell you were talking
[4:31:34] to a bot. There's some cadence issues, a
little longer pause maybe than normal,
[4:31:38] but it was, you know, overall,
>> I mean, if you weren't paying attention,
[4:31:42] you probably think you were talking to a
person.
[4:31:45] » One of the things they did is that they
were they played they played us back a
[4:31:48] recording of a radio station. and I
don't remember where it was and the
[4:31:51] radio station basically set out to trip
the bot up. So, they took turns calling
[4:31:55] in and and just carried on this long Q&A
and it took them quite a while but it
[4:32:01] was very impressive. I was I was
actually impressed about how it
[4:32:04] responded and it wasn't it wasn't so
robotic. it was it was pretty robust and
[4:32:09] it was able to answer and then they
tried to get it to admit that it was an
[4:32:12] AI um and which it ultimately did but it
took them it took him a lot of questions
[4:32:17] he said to finally get that deep and and
that they didn't have to badger it to
[4:32:23] send them to a live person. Um, but just
keep in mind it doesn't solve the people
[4:32:28] problem because at the end of the day,
if they want to get to the person, that
[4:32:32] problem doesn't go away,
>> right?
[4:32:34] » This just helps alleviate the
frustrations and get people to the
[4:32:38] information a lot easier that they that
they want to get get at.
[4:32:42] » Yeah.
>> Yeah. And even if they get to the point
[4:32:44] where they can leave an answer, leave a
message with [clears throat] the person
[4:32:49] they want to get to instead of going
back to the menu and listening to the
[4:32:52] whole menu.
>> Absolutely right. It can eliminate the
[4:32:55] dreaded phone tree.
>> Huh?
[4:32:56] » Yeah,
>> it can eliminate the phone tree is
[4:32:59] basically what it can do.
>> Well, I I work with call centers and
[4:33:02] call past
>> 30 years. So,
[4:33:06] » uh the request the funding amount is
15,000. So, the implementation and
[4:33:09] one-year support fees are included. Uh
and the continued annual support is
[4:33:14] estimated to be 10,500 a year. Uh the
way they do the charging, it's based on
[4:33:19] minutes of usage. So, we had to
estimate. We do not know. they come up
[4:33:23] with an estimate on what they think a
city of our size might use and that's
[4:33:28] the number that that they came up with.
Um and there there's a rate I don't have
[4:33:33] it on here but in the in the um uh
proposal they have a rate based on
[4:33:38] minutes 0 whatever cents. Uh so however
many however many minutes they came up
[4:33:44] with that's that's what we come up with
as far as annual annual fee. I like it
[4:33:48] because I hate
>> it.
[4:33:50] [laughter]
[4:33:53] I'm getting used to AI and
>> it's a lot better than the uh menu
[4:34:01] bouncing back and forth. You know, it's
very
[4:34:04] » All right.
Consensus.
[4:34:07] » Yes.
>> Yeah. I don't like it, but
[4:34:10] » Yeah.
Yeah,
[4:34:14] » I like to have a personal up there
answering at all times people and
[4:34:19] answering the damn phone.
>> You know, there's people talking to
[4:34:23] people because and we're a small enough
city we ought to be person to person. I
[4:34:28] just
>> Well, that's
[4:34:30] I expected more of the of the gym
response. Not because I expected that
[4:34:33] from Jim, but I just kind of expected
>> No, we're going to have we're going to
[4:34:36] have two classes of people who are
calling in. those who literally
[4:34:39] genuinely want information and those who
want someone to console them and
[4:34:44] understand that they're hurting and and
emotionally damaged from some city
[4:34:47] policy. The AI is not going to
emotionally connect and those people are
[4:34:52] not going to be happy with it. However,
if you genuinely want information,
[4:34:54] you'll get it. The other ones will be
routed to a voicemail and they can leave
[4:34:58] their
uh passionate impassioned [snorts] plea
[4:35:02] for whatever in the voicemail
to someone who is there. literally right
[4:35:07] to a desk and if that person happened to
be there then they would get the
[4:35:10] voicemail but
>> we're not cutting out that that
[4:35:13] » I think a majority of the calls are
probably utility villain related and
[4:35:18] » we have a strict policy we call back
within an hour that's our rule that's me
[4:35:22] and Tammy's rule
>> also
[4:35:23] » um and I'm her overflow so if she's at
lunch I usually try to stay at my desk
[4:35:27] so I can get those overflow calls
>> and last but not least uh this it's not
[4:35:34] on here but uh there was a request made
and I apologize to the mayor. He did ask
[4:35:38] me this quite some time ago about
replacing these monitors that on
[4:35:42] [snorts] the dice that block everybody's
view. So, I've created this high-tech
[4:35:47] example of uh uh the monitor size that
we would replace those with.
[4:35:52] » And it's considerably smaller. In fact,
the top of this sits just about this
[4:35:57] high above the the curved uh finished
edge of the das there. Uh these are it's
[4:36:04] not a lot. I hate to use a capital
project, but
[4:36:06] » [snorts]
>> uh it's 35 less than $3,600 to replace
[4:36:10] all 10 of these with a 15inch monitor
that would look just like this, about
[4:36:14] this size. And so
>> made of cardboard, too.
[4:36:18] » Made of cardboard.
>> So, and this is not on the list of
[4:36:22] projects cuz it was just emailed to us
yesterday. So,
[4:36:26] » yes, I I just got them to get back.
>> We can approve I can add it to the
[4:36:29] project.
>> So, how quickly can you order those?
[4:36:31] » If I order them, they're saying two to
three weeks. They're just cut out. So,
[4:36:35] it's really
>> So, you can get it done before the new
[4:36:36] fiscal year.
>> Well, I can have these made before I
[4:36:38] leave for vacation like a week. I
[laughter] can just put them up there.
[4:36:43] » Like, how come this screen won't change?
>> Yeah. I keep swiping.
[4:36:47] » Yeah. So, uh yeah. 35.
>> This is a council members.
[4:36:50] » Are we going to be able to zoom in on
them or
[4:36:52] » the public not touch?
>> No. Oh, this unfortunately these are
[4:36:56] only
>> Yeah. The public wanted to see
[4:36:58] » they're only seeing what we display on
the computer. So, they're not
[4:37:01] interactive. Well, I keep using mine. I
get it. I know.
[4:37:05] » No, no, but we can do that. We'll add
that to our strategic plan when we
[4:37:08] upgrade the video system in here to uh
you know,
[4:37:14] » high-tech two-way.
>> You push the button, the video camera
[4:37:18] turns on you while you push the button.
>> Yeah, just just get them now.
[4:37:28] » But I I really did I really did this
because I wanted to show off my
[4:37:30] cardboard cutout.
>> You did a great job. Very nice. Very
[4:37:32] nice. Good job.
>> A little uneven, but
[4:37:35] » All right, let's let's move on. You got
what you need?
[4:37:37] » Thank you.
>> Okay.
[4:37:39] » Okay.
>> Water plant number two, pump covers.
[4:37:41] » Yes, these are all water sewer related
projects. So, these come primarily out
[4:37:45] well wholly other sewer funds.
>> All right, let's have some fun. Uh the
[4:37:52] these are the uh shade structures on the
water plant number two. This will be
[4:37:57] covering um protecting the booster pump
equipment that we have there which
[4:38:01] includes valves and all the piping. Um
ultimately you will love to have uh
[4:38:06] building protecting this equipment like
we have on water plan 4 and the new
[4:38:11] Tamina water plant but I mean as you can
see there I mean affects the coating
[4:38:14] affects the uh actual performance of the
pump. So these shade structure will at
[4:38:19] least some be some protect protecting um
those all that equipment in there. Um,
[4:38:26] so I do recommend this project. Uh, it's
going to give us give our palms uh
[4:38:31] better life and uh longer life.
[4:38:36] » I agree. Good.
>> That well number two has served us well
[4:38:43] over
>> the last 50 years. It's
[4:38:46] » been a powerhouse. Y
[4:38:52] » it's only got a 16inch line, but it
worked.
[4:38:56] All right.
[4:38:59] The redundant sewer line at I45.
This is a project that was we tried to
[4:39:06] do it with ARPA money. Uh we did were
able to fund the design. So the whole
[4:39:11] design project is already completed by
BL engineering. Um this is also a
[4:39:17] project I there uh very well recommend.
Uh we only have one line going from the
[4:39:24] um from this side of the freeway to the
other side. Only one one gravity line.
[4:39:29] That's a lot of risk. Uh if that line
collapses,
[4:39:33] man, that would be the worst day of my
life. Uh so it would require a lot of
[4:39:37] bypass and I can't even imagine how much
that would be if we had to do that. So
[4:39:42] we cannot let that happen. If it
happens, we can at least have this
[4:39:46] redundant line. So we need this
redundant line. We have two gravity
[4:39:50] lines going from one side of the free to
the other and make it to our wastewater
[4:39:54] treatment plant. Um like I said design
is already funded. It be a matter of uh
[4:40:00] getting the construction done. We are
thinking it's going to be bling and
[4:40:05] during anticipate $425,000
for the project um construction. You
[4:40:12] know, we were going to use ARPA funds to
do.
[4:40:14] » We were going to be using ARA funds, but
we put that money into the uh Tamina
[4:40:18] Road uh utilities. Uh the the the
funding is for construction estimates
[4:40:23] for 425, but with all contingencies,
we're funding requesting uh half a
[4:40:28] million. So, 500 total
>> and we did have some of the because of
[4:40:32] the timing of this project, that was a
factor of why we didn't use our funds.
[4:40:36] The other thing is we did use some of
those funds to allocate towards the
[4:40:39] wastewater treatment improvement as
well.
[4:40:43] » I'm for it 100%. We need to get it done.
>> We need to have it.
[4:40:48] » Very important.
>> It's been on the books for four years.
[4:40:52] » Yes.
>> And again, this is coming out of
[4:40:56] » water.
>> Water sewer.
[4:41:04] » Okay.
Yeah.
[4:41:06] » All right.
>> Well, we got the uh the effluent line,
[4:41:13] not the redundant line under the
freeway. They want to replace off the
[4:41:16] whole effluent line, right?
[4:41:22] » Yes. We got to do the
>> the master plan.
[4:41:24] » The master plan, right?
>> Master update for the wastewater
[4:41:28] treatment plant.
>> Yeah, I'll go ahead and get started with
[4:41:31] that one. Um so this is the master plan.
Um so we right now um on our wastewater
[4:41:37] treatment plant we're processing about 8
just short of 800,000
[4:41:42] um ga gallons a day on a wastewater
treatment plan we permitted for 1.3
[4:41:47] million um per TCQ rules for the state
whenever you reach a 75% when you
[4:41:53] trigger 75% for the previous three
months you need to be in design already
[4:41:58] but we're very getting very close to
that triggering that so I do recommend
[4:42:03] funding the uh uh the master plan study
with BL uh it's only right now we're
[4:42:08] asking for $50,000
uh that will put us ahead of the game
[4:42:12] before we also need before we actually
need to start designing this project.
[4:42:17] This is for the ultimate phase on our
wastewater treatment plan. Uh we need to
[4:42:22] move because we have Tamina coming and
that's just stamina. If for some reason
[4:42:27] we have development there uh that will
increase our flows. So I do recommend
[4:42:32] funding the U master plan with
volunteering right now.
[4:42:37] I can answer any questions on that.
one of those.
[4:42:40] » Yeah, I'm going to rework the revenues,
but
[4:42:45] » I mean they all work they go at
different times. So cash flow,
[4:42:48] » right?
>> I'll be able to
[4:42:52] » and I'll just add that with Tamina
coming online, Woodloft and then the
[4:42:56] apartments at Sam Moon, right? We're
going to be at that 75%.
[4:43:01] » Yeah,
>> it's right around the corner.
[4:43:03] » Eventually you're going to get schools
right time.
[4:43:06] » Yeah. If for some reason something
develops develops with Methodist uh even
[4:43:11] more so
[4:43:21] that's the design
>> design only for the eff line on the
[4:43:24] wastewater treatment plant. Um recently
we made some repairs to the ad line just
[4:43:30] right next to the water right next to
the plant but this is a full replacement
[4:43:35] of this fl that goes all the way from
the wastewater treatment plant goes
[4:43:39] north into Carter Sloo um the line is
is not a not a gravity line it looks
[4:43:47] like a force man it's fully pressurized
it should not be doing that so it's
[4:43:52] almost a full capacity um right
It's an 18inch line that we have there.
[4:43:58] Uh we're increasing it to a 24 inch
line.
[4:44:02] » It's going to be side by side for
>> I'm sorry.
[4:44:04] » You're going to put them side by side
and keep them both or just going to
[4:44:08] increase it and
>> Right. We will we putting side to side
[4:44:11] and then abandon the other one.
>> We We'll look at alternate routes to see
[4:44:16] if maybe we can even shorten that run.
>> Yes.
[4:44:19] » To save on costs.
>> Exactly. We we'll do a study with BL
[4:44:22] engineering that
>> that's what we're looking at
[4:44:24] » that it might even be like putting um a
wet well just specifically for this uh
[4:44:31] that will reduce the um the um
the linear feed of line that we we
[4:44:38] install.
>> So serious
[4:44:42] » you it's going to be gravity
>> the plan is to do gravity. Yes.
[4:44:46] » Just a question. Yeah.
>> Okay.
[4:44:50] » Yes.
[4:44:57] » I testing and repair.
>> This is also another project that's been
[4:45:01] on our books for many years. Um but I
mean year to year we having more and
[4:45:06] more problems with INI. Um INI means
inflow and infiltration. Uh basically
[4:45:12] it's all the infiltration that you have
on your sewage system on manholes on on
[4:45:17] lines that are cracked that is making it
all the way to the our wastewater
[4:45:21] treatment plant. And just so you know
when we have a big rain event like like
[4:45:27] I mentioned before we have about 800,000
gallons a day on our wastewater
[4:45:31] treatment plant. When we have a big rain
event we're treating over a million. Um
[4:45:36] so that just more more time for our
operators more chemicals that we need to
[4:45:41] invest more electricity uh damage to our
system our pumps and everything. So
[4:45:48] having this pro problem is not only
going to be detecting where the problem
[4:45:51] is but also we we have some uh money in
there to make the major repairs that are
[4:45:57] needed and specifically is only going to
be attacking our old section of the city
[4:46:04] which is on the uh southeast uh section
of the city. doing this for the whole
[4:46:10] city will cost a lot of money, but I do
know from uh talking to Steve and our
[4:46:15] other operators, that's our big problem
area. So, the southeast. So, uh
[4:46:22] basically south uh so southeast and
right next to um uh Memorial Herman. So,
[4:46:28] um any questions I can answer on this?
>> We're all Yes. about four years ago at
[4:46:34] the TML conference, I talked with the
people on this.
[4:46:38] » Yes. that had sensors that listened to
the water going through the lines
[4:46:44] » and effluent
>> sewer lines and water lines. Okay. Is
[4:46:49] that what we're talking about?
>> That is exactly what we're talking
[4:46:52] about.
>> Blindly good. It's just
[4:46:54] » Yeah.
>> Yes, sir. So, yeah.
[4:46:58] » It fell on deaf ears when I brought it
up four years ago. Okay. It's all about
[4:47:02] money. I understand.
>> Yeah. Some of these mantels we're
[4:47:05] looking at are brick manholes. That's
how old they are. Oh yeah. So,
[4:47:11] well that was great because you could
tell and you could actually find where
[4:47:15] the effluent where the it is coming
from.
[4:47:18] » Exactly.
>> And then when you have a 16inch water
[4:47:22] line on Vision Park blow up.
>> You don't have to wait for SCADA to to
[4:47:28] tell you, hey, the water tank's empty.
You know what I mean? The hydro tank.
[4:47:32] » Yeah, that's definitely
happened what, twice?
[4:47:38] Oh, many times. Yeah.
>> So, yeah, I'm all for it. I I saw this
[4:47:45] in action. It's just phenomenal.
>> Mhm.
[4:47:49] » This is one of those projects that will
potentially be
[4:47:52] » Oh, save us so much money. It's
>> there's a payback period.
[4:47:55] » For sure.
>> Sorry, forgot my mic was up.
[4:47:58] » Yes, I'm 44.
>> And I we did get a quote from a
[4:48:02] contractor, but I would like to get
additional quotes to see where the
[4:48:06] market is. I different companies do
this. Uh I like competition. So I like
[4:48:10] to have uh different contenders bidding
on this.
[4:48:14] » Do you want to set ceiling?
>> We Yeah.
[4:48:19] RP.
>> Yeah. It exceeds the 100,000 by law.
[4:48:25] » Okay. So that's pretty much it with
project. We did table item number two.
[4:48:29] We do need to take a record vote. It's
it's an action item. So,
[4:48:35] you know, the action item basically
truth and taxation laws requires us to
[4:48:39] have a formal vote saying if we want to
go with the no new no new revenue rate
[4:48:45] or do we want to open up the possibility
to go above it. If we vote to open up
[4:48:50] the possibility to go above the NNR, we
then have to have a public hearing
[4:48:54] before the adoption of the tax rate. If
we don't, you don't have to have a
[4:48:58] public hearing. you can just approve the
tax rate because you're not
[4:49:02] » council to decide how far up they want
to go and
[4:49:06] » that
we can always go down without
[4:49:09] » we can always do yeah the NNR so if you
want to make a motion or someone wants
[4:49:14] to make a motion to approve a just I
just need a proposal right as well for
[4:49:19] the tax office to have
>> but here let me bring my thing back up
[4:49:26] » what's the one below it here
Um
[4:49:31] 1918
>> 1918 would be the max you can go without
[4:49:35] a um uh with
>> okay 1911.
[4:49:40] » That's my motion.
>> What was your motion
[4:49:44] » to adopt it to the 19?
>> Well, not adopt to propose
[4:49:47] » to propose. We're not adopting anything
tonight.
[4:49:50] » Well, that's fine. [laughter] Words
>> to below the 19.4, right?
[4:49:57] to below the 194. Yes.
>> Okay. So, we have we have a motion to
[4:50:03] » to propose to consider to propose
>> the 1911 rate.
[4:50:07] » The 19
>> 11 rate.
[4:50:10] » I'll second that.
>> Yeah.
[4:50:14] » By
proted
[4:50:19] by Councilman Sol.
[4:50:25] Yes, sir. Okay. Can we put those two
together? [laughter]
[4:50:28] » Took me forever.
>> It's going to be that way.
[4:50:32] » It's going to be that way. I don't
>> No, it's going to be that way.
[4:50:35] [laughter]
>> I want to change my name to Hank
[4:50:37] Williams.
>> So, just discussion.
[4:50:43] » So, we're going to try to come below
this, but we want to have the option to
[4:50:46] go here if we have to.
>> Correct.
[4:50:48] » Yes.
>> But we will decide later.
[4:50:51] » Exactly what I'm saying. Just there's
our option again.
[4:50:54] » It's a good plan. Yes. So,
[clears throat] just for anyone that's
[4:50:57] listening at home, this is not the
adoption of the rate. This is not saying
[4:51:00] that this is what we're going to adopt.
This is just the tax office requires me
[4:51:05] to propose a rate and this is what that
is. So, all the notices unfortunately
[4:51:10] will have that 1911 factor, but it
doesn't necessarily mean that's what
[4:51:14] you're going with. It's just truth and
taxation. Unfortunately, those are the
[4:51:18] rules and we have to follow them. the
official vote for the uh the the change
[4:51:25] in the tax rate would be
>> so we required to do that.
[4:51:30] » So I have to get tax rate approved by
the 15th of September to get onto the
[4:51:35] tax roles with Tammy Ray or I have to
collect taxes and that's going to be no.
[4:51:39] So we have to have it approved by that
point. If you guys are comfortable from
[4:51:43] me making the changes to this budget and
having the adoption for the next the
[4:51:47] council meeting on the 26th, I can do
that.
[4:51:50] » You can put it on the 26 and he can pull
it.
[4:51:53] » Well, we just have to know for public
notice here. You have so many public
[4:51:57] hear in public notices. Courtney and me
every year it's the bane of our
[4:52:00] existence. Um because of all the rules.
So if it doesn't pass, but if we put it
[4:52:06] on for the agenda on the 26th, but then
we end up not making an action item, I'd
[4:52:10] have to approve it within 7 days of that
meeting. So we'd have to call a special
[4:52:13] meeting in by September 2nd, I believe.
>> So those are the rules.
[4:52:18] » Okay.
>> So if we could stick to it and I can
[4:52:21] propose everything at the 26th and we
feel comfortable, I will do that.
[4:52:24] » If John and Sam want to do that, that's
their choice. You understand?
[4:52:27] » And I will I will send out everything
updated. I am out of town next week, but
[4:52:32] I will work tomorrow on trying to get
everything updated and sent out to
[4:52:34] everyone.
>> And you'll also have on the agenda
[4:52:38] the issue with our reserve.
>> Yeah, that'll be on there as well. Yeah.
[4:52:43] » If if we adopt a change in policy
recommend,
[4:52:46] » you'll factor that in.
>> Yes. So, what
[4:52:49] » in the discussion
>> into the discussion? Yeah.
[4:52:51] » Yes. Yes.
>> To approve or or not
[4:52:53] » or to
>> Well, what I can do on the proposed for
[4:52:55] the budget
>> and possible action
[4:52:58] » for the proposed budget. What we can do
is I can have it in the agenda form and
[4:53:03] then I can actually put it on the actual
document and if we would just make a
[4:53:07] motion if we wanted to go that way or
not at that point and I remove it for
[4:53:10] the final publish adopted budget.
[4:53:16] » Okay. All right. Any additional
comments?
[4:53:20] All in favor say I. I.
>> I.
[4:53:23] » Opposed.
Motion carries.
[4:53:27] All right. [clears throat] Having
reached the end of the agenda, no other
[4:53:32] items to discuss, it is now 9:54
[clears throat]
[4:53:37] and we are going to adjourn this
session, the special session of the
[4:53:44] budget workshop for Shannidor city
council.
[4:53:49] What time?
>> 9:54.
[4:53:58] Okay.