Patricia Friebus, mayor. >> Ryan Fernandez, alderman Ward One,
» present. >> Natalie Akens, alderman, Ward One,
» here. >> Marie Davis, alderman Ward Two.
» Remember to speak into your mic. Present.
» Mark Schwarz, alderman Ward two, >> here.
» Greg Columbo, alderman Ward three, >> present.
» Angie Wel, alderman Ward three, >> here.
» Kathy Freriedman, alderman Ward four, >> here. Alderman Ward four here. Britney
Gillette, city administrator, >> here.
» Jeff Tman, director of finance, >> here.
» Mike Knight, director of planning and public works,
» here. >> Gerald Brown, director of parks and
recreation, >> here.
» Steven Dodge, chief of police, >> here.
» Aaron Cely, city attorney, >> here.
» Thank you. >> Thank you, Mrs. uh Stone. Next item is
approval of the agenda. Um, we need to amend it for the motion to add prestige
pools, but Mrs. Celely would like to make a comment.
» Yes. I just wanted to say for the record that this did come in late. It is an
event that we have numerous years. So it is nothing new. Um however the event
does occur before the next meeting and therefore as long as you are comfortable
we would find good cause to amend the agenda because of the fact that it did
come in late. We are not able to provide the 24 hours notice yet the event will
occur before you're able to have a meeting. Um, so a motion to amend the
agenda would include that good cause finding for less than 24 hours notice.
» I do have a motion to amend the agenda. Alderman Davis,
» I'll move since she's in my ward. You're in my ward.
» You have a second. >> I'll second then.
» Uh, Alderman Davis made a motion was seconded by Alderman Schwarz. All in
favor of approval of the agenda with the amendment.
Motion passed as amended. Next item is a consent agenda. Bills to
be approved. Do I have a motion, please? >> I'll make a motion.
» Second. >> Motion was made by Alderman Atkins,
seconded by Alderman Davis. All in favor?
» I >> Madame Mayor, did we miss the minutes or
did I skip? >> [laughter]
» I think I crossed them off before we Thank you for bringing that to my
attention.
» Uh, do I have a motion for the approval of the minutes of the July 14th, 2026
regular meeting and the July 29th, 2026 special session meeting?
» I'll make a motion. >> Second.
» Motion was made to approve the minutes from Alderman Wiggle and seconded by
Alderman Akens. All in favor? Thank you for bringing that to my
attention. The consent agenda also passed. Next,
public hearings. The board will consider and discuss a request to amend the text
of several sections of the city of Sunset Hills unified development
ordinance relating to recreational uses.
Anyone from the audience that would like to come forward?
Mike. Yes.
Sorry, I was just getting the clicker ready here.
» Thought you were hiding under there. No. [laughter]
» So, we have uh two public hearings tonight. The first one is a text
amendment for the city and it's regarding recreational uses.
So, a little background, there was the discussion uh at the board um regarding
recreational uses in industrial areas and we were specifically talking about
at that time indoor athletic training facilities. We were talking about how
these recreational facilities were grouped together and maybe there's a
potential text amendment to better understand these and how they relate
into our code. Um the issue that was in front of us is we had a use that was
permitted in our code that said health, athletic, recreation, amusement
facilities, and indoor. And although it was a use, it wasn't defined. So when we
regulate zoning, when we have permitted uses, we want a definition. So when
these nuance different community members come in, we know exactly, you know, what
that use is or how we define it. We also had something called recreation uses
that was permitted, but it was only permitted in parks and conditional and
residential areas. It wasn't defined. It almost sound like it was a community
pool or tennis court or something like that. It didn't really seem applicable
here. Didn't make much sense. Actually, we also had some definitions in our code
that didn't have uses. And a lot of these were kind of built part of that
other use. said talked about recreation facilities indoor. Um where the the
trampolines and the indoor driving ranges, um amusement center indoors
where they were talking about coin operated game video game machines, more
of a classic arcade and then a health facility indoor and that was called kind
of a health club and at minimum these definitions need to be revamped with
current language uh today and um looked into.
So staff looked at uh what we have today, looked at the different uses and
say how are they most appropriate in today and what we see out in these
different areas, where do they match zoning wise? Um the first conversation
we had was the athletic training facility indoor, the one we talked about
in depth where these youth sports often have these training specific areas. Um
sometimes they're in industrial areas. We talked at the board level. Um, so we
defined it as athletic training indoor, made it permitted in both the commercial
and industrial zoning districts. Um, also put a parking
uh, minimum standard in there that we have with all of our uses. Did the five
per thousand, I think it says one per 200 gross floor area. I say five per
thousand. It's a pretty standard commercial industrial minimum parking
standard that you'll see. We also even talked about at the board level and and
internally that athletic training indoor is not one of these larger sports
complexes. It's not Scott Gallagher. It's not. So we purposfully define these
larger more competition um where everybody comes and watches
spectator uh use and said specifically the athletic training facility indoor in
that definition is not a sports complex indoor and outdoor. and then define the
sports complex and did not make it permitted in any of our zoning
districts. Then we have those other three we talked
about. So we have one called fitness center and health club. It's a permitted
use in commercial. Think your gyms, your Planet Fitnesses that you see in these
commercial areas with the five uh per thousand
uh parking. And then we had the recreational facilities indoor and
talked about um you know this is your indoor arcade bowling whether you're
urban air or your main event or your bowling mostly always in commercial
permitted in commercial districts. Um and then we [clears throat] also defined
movement center outdoor. Now these aren't necessarily always on large
tracks of land but they are outdoor. Um think of your mini golf or your batting
cage maybe we'll call it swing around funtown something like that that you
see. Um, so we didn't make it permitted by right, but since it's outdoor, made
it conditional in the commercial districts. Um, and then I used one space
per 500. That's just a little research when I looked at there's not a lot of
these. Look out there. That seemed to be a common metric for our parking knowing
that if anybody did come in, they would have that plan development p permit
process that we have. So what we did, there was one
recreational use classification that was combined. It didn't define the athletic
portion of it for sure and it was only permitted in the commercial districts.
So, we had also a use called recreation facilities that was only conditional in
single family residential areas and it just didn't make much sense. Um, so we
created the five distinct recreational facility uses that we mentioned, applied
the applicable zoning districts that we felt were most appropriate, provided a
parking standard to them, um, removed that recreation use that didn't seem to
make sense or that we use applicably in these subdivisions.
Um, this was part of it's a text amendment, so it went to the planning
and zoning commission. They are your recommending body for all land use and
zoning decisions. Um they recommended approval unanimously as it was
submitted. Importantly, tonight the distinguished night is a public hearing.
So this is an opportunity for staff to describe the ordinance amendment and
really receive feedback. Receive feedback from the board, receive
feedback from the members of community, whether they're, you know, here tonight
or in the future. Um and and no action is scheduled for tonight. This is
strictly on for a public hearing. Closes my presentation and of course I can
answer any questions. I said I was going to receive feedback, but I left my
notepad. So, I'm going to grab that. >> Any questions?
» Alderman Columbo, >> how would you define the VETA bubble?
» Alderman Columbo, >> how would you define the the VETA bubble
under which category? I'm just curious. >> Right.
» It's not a sports complex because it has multiple tennis courts.
» Yeah. So, I would say no. Good. I never looked specifically into their
operation. And I know we've talked about it from my understanding of their
operation or being there. This is one and more of those indoor training
facilities and not use events. Now I could have new information and find out
that they have massive tournaments or something like that. Again, they're
existing condition as they are right now. Um, so no change, but the best of
my knowledge, it's an indoor training facility, but without reaching out or
understanding really their operation, I have to put that caveat in there.
» Secondly, the the parking. >> Mhm. It seems overly restrictive at one
per 200. And and I'll give some examples because I believe Veta currently is
45,000 to 50,000 square feet total between the two bubbles in the building.
They have 60 spots on hand. >> So that's like a one per 700ish average.
Spirit Gymnastics, Crossgra Boy, they lease 14,000 square feet of that 34,000
foot building. He has 27 spots for them on one side of the building and then the
remainder of that building has 15 on the other side for his industrial uses and
there's 15 spots around back. >> So again, you're into like a one per 450
area. Um, and I could go on. I the very other
examples here of all American Big Bendon 44. That's another
» Yeah. 40 something 50,000 square foot facility. They're about one per 400
under parking. Bud Dome I was just talking to somebody about is an 80,000
square foot place, one per 4 to 500. Um, uh, Powerhouse is another one where you
know all of these places and these are mostly places that are holding events
too, not just training facilities. So, they're way advanced. And I guess my
point is in Sunset Hills, we're not getting complaints about parking at
Spirit Gymnastics. We're not getting complaints about parking at Veta yet.
We're coming at one per 200, which great. Now, we've authorized a use, but
it's so overly restrictive that we may never be able to utilize that use
because the parking is too restrictive. So,
» sure. >> Just thoughts.
» Five per thousand is typically like kind of a lower parking minimum. I'm not a
firm believer that, you know, I I you you clearly looked at all these
places and all these things, you know what I mean? So, I'm not like debating.
I would just say from a overall perspective, five per thousand isn't a
high from what I've known, but >> correct. It's that and that's my point.
Powerhouse 45,000 ft, 113 spots, one >> and a lot of these I just think uh
important comment is it's the mixture of uses within these buildings, right? So,
you you look at the other uses. So they may designate X amount of spaces for
these uses, but if they're mixed, maybe they're lower in other ones. You you
look at the building as a whole, right? You take each use, you say what the
requirements are, you see what the >> parking but I guess my point is most of
these places get more use than an athletic training facility will ever
get, right? Because they're hosting competitions. They're hosting multiple
practices and a competition. So, I I if when it comes to time for this ordinance
to come up, I I think I'm going to make a motion to amend to be a little less
restrictive so that we can actually utilize some of those places versus
having something that's allowed but will no longer be practical to use. And I
would say part of the public hearing process is to gather feedback and
understand. So, I think, you know, I'll do the same. I'll look into it, see what
I can find on these nuanced areas and come with that information.
» Yeah. Any other questions from the board?
» Yes, >> Alderman Schwarz. Um,
» yes. I'm not quite as good as Alderman Columbo is with Google Earth, but uh so
I'm just going to go back and I'm going to I'm going to echo his his sentiment
and I think that one to 200 puts them on par with
municipal buildings, trade schools, vocational schools, college and
universities. And I don't think that the property that
we're talking about is consistent with those three that I just cited.
» Sure. >> Alderman Doss.
» Um I heard a lot of wisdom from the other side of the table. So my question
to you, Michael, is PNZ passed this unanimously. Was this parking issue
discussed in PNZ at all to your recollection?
» No. Not much conversation, just a lot of
nodding of heads of the split of uses, not not a lot of dialogue overall.
» Thank you, >> Alderman Freriedman.
» Um, I'm just wondering why athletic
» microphone microphone. >> Yes, I'm sorry.
» My apologies. Um, athletic training facilities indoor is permitted in
LCGCLI, which which I think is fine. Um, fitness
center health and amusement center outdoor
are only in commercial but not LI. Is there a reason for that?
» They just seem much more like commercial operations where much more people go in
and out. That seemed more commercial than industrial despite this use.
Usually work for a day. You don't see that in and out like you see in these
commercial areas >> and
sports complex indoor or outdoor is not permitted in any is that so
» we we say that we don't think that's appropriate anywhere in the city
» exactly and I think it's a perfect format for this discussion right now
unless you see that different it was more defining the two and saying that
the athletic indoor is not a sports facility indoor. I'm not aware of like
our comprehensive plan or or some sort of guiding document that said these
large facilities would be in these certain areas. We're largely a built
environment. These typically are larger, but that's a perfect opportunity right
now unless we, you know, we see this as being appropriate somewhere.
» Yeah. So, I mean, I look at our driving range and I think we've got some
instructional there
and that I mean, so doesn't that make it a sports complex,
indoor, outdoor with training areas? >> I would say with all our parks, we
consider them our parks. We usually don't zone them into like commercial
designations. >> Is there a reason why that isn't why we
it's not permitted in parks and open spaces? And
» yeah, looking at this and Mike and I talked about this a lot. The I think the
crux of these um sports complexes is that they are there to generate
spectators and that's listed in the definition where these are you're trying
to get a lot of people there. So you see these giant volleyball uh you know
complexes where there's 30, 40, 50 courts and they're all operating on one
day at the same time and it's the intent is to draw people in there. In looking
at the city of Sunset Hills, I'm not sure where we would fit something of
that size. When you look at the actual complex and then the parking that is
required and is never enough at those types of facilities. Um, and to Mike's
point, we can continue to talk about this. If if the board disagrees, we're
certainly open to that conversation, but just looking at the city of Sunset
Hills, where we're located, our current open space for development, I'm not sure
where that would ever fit. And we certainly wanted to pull out these
recreational or athletic training facilities from that because they are
truthfully operating under two different very modes.
» Okay. And there's no problem with our parks department doing that, but we tell
other people they can't. >> There's not a legal problem. They are
they're designated as parks and open space and they operate under the
municipal park operations. >> Okay. Well, I just I I mean when we've
so I don't know how closely the other
aldermen have looked at this, but when you've got sports complex indoor or
outdoor as a use and there's no little P's or C's across the little grid, that
means uh-uh. So, >> correct.
» Yeah. >> And and that was certainly the
intention. Again, we're we're open to conversation. Um, but that was the
intention was to leave those defined and then not allow them or not permit them.
» And may I just ask when when this comes up, can we put the the use chart? I had
to write my own little notes about what >> district it was in. The use chart
doesn't show it in the ordinance. >> So that would just be helpful
» in the draft ordinance. Yeah. Like a supplementary exhibit
» out a little. It's because we just pulled that and it's but it would still
be >> I we understand And I can even make it a
supplementary chart exhibit. Yeah. >> Thank you,
» Alderman Columbbo. >> Alderman Freeman, I you know, since I
kind of brought this to the >> microphone,
» I just want to say I was purposeful and not trying to lump sports complexes in
because I'm a user of those and I realize how much traffic they generate
and I just thought, hey, let's just keep it simple for now, you know, and and
address what >> Yeah. the existing non-conforming uses
were rather than bring in new uses. So, >> and I tend to favor that approach. I
just wanted go through the exercise. Thank you,
» Alderman Fernandez. >> Thanks, Madam Mayor. Um, Mr. N. I just
want to confirm um I have two separate questions. One is any of this how it
relates to we do have an approval obviously for the bombers activity down
at Bander Park and a park. So, is that the pure distinction there on why that
is different? It's operating through our lease, right?
» It is operating through a lease. Um the use obviously just like any other change
to our UDO, the the existing items are grandfathered in. So any any change to
this won't impact existing facilities or um sports complex operations.
» Great. Thank you. And then second one very different. Um the thing about the
residential areas, obviously since the UDO went in, pickle ball became a rage.
How would that apply if a subdivision wouldn't put in a pickle ball court or
anything else like that this time? >> Those are typical and I say most cities
just passive amenities. >> Alderman Fernandez, I didn't hear the
question. So, do you mind repeating? >> Absolutely. I'm sorry.
» I'm I'm going talk right into this thing. [laughter]
» Uh since the UDO went in as pickle balls obviously skyrocketed other paddle
sports, I was just curious how that would apply that one provision around
residential areas. So, I'd say like um most cities, if you have amenities that
are in common ground that are used for your subdivision, they're just common
ground. You get a building permit for something like that. They don't have a
separate use designation because they're not really a commercial enterprise in
those subdivisions. >> Okay. Not advocating for more of those,
but yeah. Thank you. >> Any other questions from the board?
All right. Would anyone from the audience uh have any comments? Mr.
better. Do you want to add anything? No. Okay. Anyone else in the audience
that would like to comment in the public hearing?
All right. >> Thank you very much. Now, close this
public hearing [clears throat] >> and we're going to open the next one.
The board will consider and discuss a request to amend the text of several
sections of the city of Sunset Hills unified development ordinance relating
to senior living uses. Mr. Knight. >> Yep. This one is known as PO7 2026
um regarding the senior living uses. Uh so just take a step back like we did
with the last one, you know, why make the amendments. So, uh, we talked about
at the board before Friendship Village acquired some property next to their
existing site directly to the east called the Delta Dental Building. Um,
and they were also acquiring the commuter lot right next to that Delta
Dental Building. Um, and what we found is that there's no clear path for
expansion as the senior living uses, the plan retirement care, they're not
permitted in our current UDO. Um, I'm not aware of that intentionally being
removed from the UDO, meaning I haven't heard conversations of saying let's keep
it out, but that's it's omitted. It's it's just like Alderman Freeman said,
there's no P on those uses um existing in our code. Um, and we do know we do
have existing senior living facilities. So, that could happen not just there.
Again, I brought kind of how we got here, but this is other senior living
facilities too. Use not user. So, I was going to give you one slide to
describe this. I would say that what this text amendment does is it creates
an SL senior living district um broadly permitting the senior living uses um
verse making them permitted in existing districts. At first when I was looking
that I was think well maybe these would be most appropriate in commercial
districts being permitted but went with creating a new district specifically for
senior living. Um it requires senior living to go through the plan
development permit process. So as we know all of the developments that come
through the UDO outline that process for commercial office industrial and this
would follow that same anything but single family development process. Um it
permits plan retirement care centers that is how friendship village was
defined in the old uh zoning code. Um also assisted living facilities and
nursing homes. Those are the uses that are in our current code just not
permitted. It establishes a 5A per minimum. So a minimum lot size uh for
the senior living facilities. Um it limits density to 11 residential
accommodations or units per acre. Um it adds an open space requirement and a
residential uh parking setback requirement. So not just building but
the parking setbacks would apply too. Um and establishes a parking formula uh for
the planned retirement care centers because those other two uses that were
permitted had a parking formula. So just to walk through briefly again a new use
is added. So we have our 12 existing districts. This would add senior living.
Um we have the district regulations. So this is where we state the 5 acre lot
minimum um lot width and setbacks versus maybe the commercial that has the 10
20,000 foot lot minimums. [snorts] Um it adds the plan planned retirement
care center back into our code. Again, that's one was defined in our old code
that Friendship Village was under. Put it back in under permitted only in those
senior living district. Um, put the parking in uh the existing parking one
per three beds. I'll say that is pretty common among facilities. Um, but the
plan retirement care that's more we'll get to the definition a mixture of
retirement from independent to senior to assisted. Um and you'll see and so it
said one space per dwelling unit and one space per three beds knowing that these
developments would go through that plan development process right and outline
their parking. [snorts] It also has a use provision and the use provision
talks about these kind of those additional standards that we put on some
uses like a car wash something specific and it says all the uses would have the
density would also have an open space requirement of 50% and it would have uh
parking setbacks uh no closer than any 30 ft.
This is where we put it in the plan development process. We would add senior
living. These are the definitions. there in your packet. But again, it defines
assisted living and nursing home the same, but brings that planned retirement
care center uh definition that was in our previous zoning code back into this
code.
So, um currently senior living the
regulations, they're not permitted in any of our current districts. We know
that. Um regardless, all of these senior living facilities may continue to
operate today under their current entitlements. it's only when they look
to expand significant change when they would need a site development allowance
something like that they'd be required to go into a new district um this
creates a separate zoning district remember at first I was thinking is it
permitted in another one this creates its own district um plan development
process will remain this adds density open space and those are largely based
off friendship village I didn't do a lot of research on new but really the
accommodations of the existing facility when I was looking at density and open
space that's where I got those numbers Um at PNZ there was a robust discussion
about this just from lot sizes to um where they would be how it would work.
We had a pretty healthy um discussion. Uh they did recommend to approve
unanimously there. They did have a couple recommendations that are in your
packet right there that you see again the public hearing. This is why we're
here today especially for the public. It's for me to receive feedback from
you. Understand the ordinance amendment that I put in front. receive feedback
from of course the board, the general public. No actions scheduled tonight,
but what are your thoughts and concerns? This one? Yeah, that concludes my
presentation and I can answer any questions.
» Any questions from the board? Alderman Freriedman?
» I think it's interesting. >> I'm sorry,
» Mr. Harding. I think it's interesting that we are looking at this approach
after we just went through a very abbreviated and I think proper way to
handle you know we we've got an issue with training indoor training centers
» and we're not setting up an athletic zone because we don't have a
comprehensive athletic zone. Mhm. [clears throat]
» We could just as easily and I think more conservatively and more properly
address the the friendship village issue and any other
homes um rehab centers, assisted living facilities by putting
little P's and C's in our use chart. Um, you know, I've I've spoken to um Mr.
Knight about this and he said his initial concern was that,
you know, if you if you made it available in uh
commercial districts that any commercial district could have
a senior living um you know the this is our map, our zoning map. I don't think
we ever even look at it. The thing that I think jumps out at you is yellow.
There's a bunch of yellow, light yellow and dark yellow. That's res. That's R1
and R2. That's the bulk of our our city. And when you look at
commercial and commercial, it's the red and the pink
kind of in high traffic areas, I guess, you know, not in
the middle of residential. And I I think, you know, planned
retirement center, nursing home, assisted living, those are all
commercial enterprises, and I think they properly belong in commercial
enterprises. I agree that, you know, we should probably tighten up the um the
definitions. Um but I think that is a more conservative and a better approach.
And Mr. night has told me that that was his initial thoughts about this and um I
think his um initial instincts were the right ones. So,
you know, I'm happy to to hear others thoughts, but
» can I >> Alderman Davis?
» Um, isn't French village a religiously based um run company nonprofit
» and the same thing with the one that is next to Lommire uh the Christian I don't
know what >> Peace Haven.
» Okay, so those are both religiously run. How does that affect all of this?
» From a use perspective, it wouldn't. You know, they could sell today to something
different. I'm sure there's other implications for these, but from the use
operating of an assisted living nursing home
» despite ownership. Yeah. Again, there might be other ramifications of having
that, but not from a zoning regulation. >> Okay.
» Alderman Columbo. >> Yeah. I [clears throat] think about it
kind of like that because if you look at like a peace haven, it's scattered out
amongst the residential district. condos at Lomire Place or in a
residential district. The is it Kindred Senior Center next to that in a
residential area. >> I mean, these all seem to fit very well
throughout our community. I don't I I I personally like the senior living zoning
designation because these things are a benefit for to our community. It's nice
to have them spread out around versus just all stuck in one particular area.
And I I mean I think Friendship Village is just a perfect example of a well-run
facility that that really blends into our, you know, our our city. So
» I think we're very blessed to have a lot of choices in our community to stay in
Sunset Hills as we age. Well, and I would add to that the
courtyards and Sunset Grove being two places that are in such high demand to
get into that unless you're willing to really pay over ask, you're you can't
touch those. So, all of those places I think have benefited Sunset Hills and
brought some diversity amongst the the senior crowd. And so, yeah, I'm really
in favor of this. >> Mr. Knight, I say I can expand a little
bit because I think Alderman Freeman said it well, but just again
I think they absolutely can be in commercial districts. I think you can
put permitted and and I think a lot of cities do operate that way, especially
if you have a downtown area and you have all these different things. My thought
process was just like we we talked about, you know, the seventh amended
plan reusing these areas and if we're saying you are now a commercial zoning
district which has all these P's and things as re reuse, are we looking at
these areas as commercial areas or we envisioning them? Are we really just
talking about senior living? And that's how I went. I think it could operate in
both, but let's say we'll just not use French village the across the street
chest rehab. You know, let's say they take down the house that requires
reszoning. They're commercial now. They have all these different permits. Yes,
they still need a plan. Yes, they still need further approvals, but you are
saying as a city, this is a commercial area. Now, yes, we have to meet your
requirements, but all of the other permitted uses you're telling me that
are permitted here as long as you have meet the code and those plans. That's
how my thought process were 100% right. I did start with permitted. I think it
works either way, but that's where my thought process went is as you start
calling these local commercial or general commercial and they change reuse
over time, are we considering these commercial now? on what would that do?
» Any other questions or comments from the board? Alderman Akens.
» Thank you, Madame Mayor. Um I think I heard you say that you use Friendship
Village to build the specifications here on like five plus acres and such, but do
the other um facilities, senior living facilities in Sunset Hills meet those
specifications? And are these pretty standard? Cuz
» yeah, these can go across the board depending on your community in terms of
standardization. Originally I add three because I want to say there's one that's
four, five, eight and 50, right? So we just see the gamut of of how these
operate. Um
I I think any of them work I think when we talk about our existing facilities
too when they go through the they can request a site development allowance
when they come in. So if you do have a 3 acre spot and you are requesting some a
modest change, it's up to the board obviously, but it's
an existing condition that we've dealt with before as codes change and adapt
where when you look at new facilities, you're saying, "Hey, this is our set
standard." So I think I think it can operate in any direction. I think five
accommodates three of them right now and that one if there was a change that
needed to be made they could request to say this is the reason why four makes
sense for me because I'm in an existing condition again just if that kind of
helps that discussion >> thank you and then one other thing and I
didn't notice it when you went through this presentation so you might have
might have already updated it but in the materials that were sent out to us we
had removed senior housing as a permitted use,
» but on section six in the parking table, it was still listed as a standalone row.
So, just wanted to make you aware. >> Yeah. Was it taken out of the parking?
» So, sorry, I just thought about that. So, senior housing I don't think was
removed from our code. We just didn't make it permitted and that's why it
would stay in the parking because if it was ever activated, not that we
couldn't, but I think that's why that happened.
» That makes sense. Thank you. Mhm. >> Any other questions from the board?
» Freriedman. >> So,
Mr. Knight mentioned that you know if you've got a commercial district that
it's open to anything friendship village or anybody would come
and say I want to operate this business un and they'd go under section 7 of the
UDO to develop a plan development and part of that plan development is you
know we've dealt with them we're going to do all of these things and there's
going to be this much open space and you know we'll have this much parking and we
can't maintain this buffer because it's just too much and it would be better if
it was were smaller. We can make accommodations
and when we issue the the planned development
that does not allow just any old commercial use in the planned
development. the what governs that planned development is the ordinance.
So, it's not like Friendship Village could put a car wash
on the property. And I think Friendship Village is a wonderful
um campus, a wonderful business, um uh a wonderful place to live. The residents
there are, you know, >> are very happy there. I think it's a
model, but it is, you know, 50 acres. This would be 5 acres. And the reason
why we've got Peace Haven at 5 acres is because Peace Haven was there before the
city incorporated. So, they were grandfathered in. And I
think it behooved the city for them to do the great up upkeep up updating that
they did uh um
six years ago, eight years ago. Mhm. >> And the lawnmire is a matter of, you
know, just trying to fix a problem that went bad that, you know, that was
supposed to be condos and the development
was underwater and that got put in. you know, if we go with senior living, I
think to have these, you know, little pockets of areas that you can string
together two or three lots or, you know, five lots, it
I think we all think of Friendship Village and it's great and it is and we
want to help them expand. I don't think having a senior
living district is going to do that. And you know the section 7 says that
once a um once a plan district is approved or
disappro if once a plan district is approved that the zoning map shall shall
be amended to include the district. So on this zoning map you can see little
hash marks. Those hash marks are planned dis or planned developments. So, it's it
I don't see that the city would be opening itself to any problems if
Friendship Village came to the city and said, "Okay, we've got this Delta Dental
building and we want to add it on and that entails a reasonzoning and then we
will go forward with this plan development." Those things all happen
at one time. you know, we'll have four ordinances on the docket or the
agenda >> that would handle all of them. So, I I
just don't see the need to put, you know, another
district on the map. Um because we because at this point there's
a very good um corporate
citizen of Sunset Hills that houses, you know, a lot of Sunset Hills residences
residents very happily. Um, I don't see that's the reason that's a reason for
just expanding another expanding our code to include another district. Thank
you. >> Thank you, Madame Mayor. So, listening
to you, Michael, and to Alderman [clears throat] Freriedman, here is my
question I would go ask one of you to answer.
So, someone buys
5 acres in an R1 or R2 district.
They've combined the property. Can they under some of these rules that
you're showing us tonight in a residential district that
encompasses five acres put this kind of facility there? It would be no different
if there was an LSL district or a planned commercial district. Anybody can
request to zone anywhere. We have a comprehensive plan that says this is the
single family residential areas. This is, you know, so like that's a guiding
document. Um but it whether you went SL or you went permitted in commercial,
it'd be the same conversation. You' just be requesting a different district. Oh,
yeah. You'd have to resone either way. it would just be which district are you
reszoning to. >> But I think to to Mr. Knight's point
earlier, if you do go the commercial route with the P's and C's across the
youth table and that that happens, um, now you've got you have a commercial
zoning in the middle of a residential, in the middle of a light industrial, in
the middle of wherever that ends up being reszoned. And for today, that use
might fit, right? It might be a memory care facility. That does make sense
right outside of a neighborhood where there was an open 5 acres. But once you
have that zoning, that zoning is there. The plan development to Alderman
Freriedman's point does govern what happens with within that lot. But our
use table is going to govern the use. So, we could not have a store come up
and say we want to, you know, purchase the property that was the existing
memory care facility and we want to use it as a store, which we've got permitted
in our commercial districts. We won't be able to say no because of that use. We
could tweak their plan. We could say you need this many parking spaces, your
setbacks are too small. All of those things are governed by that plan
development, but the use is governed by the use table. So when you start calling
things commercial and just plugging in other uses, we have to remember that in
5, 10, 30 years from now, if that use is still permitted in a commercial, it it
could become that other thing. And >> this is not an overlay.
» The the PD is not an overlay. It becomes its own district. the the board shall
direct the city administrator
to update the zoning map to include that district.
» If it is zoned commercial, the the permitted uses within the commercial are
are permitted. >> You're saying it's not an over you're
saying it is an overlay. our our plan developments, those plans
do operate as an overlay. They do um you've got your uses within
» We had we had um vigorous discussion on this when we passed the UDO and the
decision was it would not be an overlay. >> I I understand what you're saying. I
understand what the code says, but we're not creating a new zoning district every
time a plan development comes in. And and that's essentially what you're
saying. We aren't creating a new >> The map would beg to differ.
I I understand the map. We have a use table if it's zoned general commercial
and there's a PD on top of it that allows for the Home Depots and the and
all those things and the Bass Pro I think is technically but you're going to
have a very hard time denying something that was reszoned for a memory care
facility and now wants to become something else that is general
commercial. you're going to it's going to be far more difficult than if you
create its own zoning district and you say the only thing allowed in these
spots is senior living. You can never become a Walmart. You can never become a
QT. And it's just going to be far more restrictive that way now and in the
future. So if if we made a senior living district
and
village fell into the ground, the only thing that could go there is a
nursing home or >> assuming they reszoned. I don't know
what their existing zoning is, but assuming they did reszone into a senior
living, they they redeveloped whatever. Yes. They fell into the ground. The only
thing that can go into that spot without the board approving a reasonzoning would
be a senior living facility within those uses,
[clears throat] >> which wouldn't be the same if it was
commercial with just a permitted use.
» Question, Alderman Davis. So, I have my five acres and I decide
that I want to have an apartment building or I want to have a condo
building, but if it's not zone senior living only, that can happen, right?
» No. So, >> we don't have multif family permit.
» So, multif family wouldn't be what we're talking about. And again, you're it
sounds like we're talking about a single family zone subdivision. There's there's
no change that you get entitlements to. You'd be requesting into a new district,
just like you'd be requesting to an LC if you wanted commercial, SL, senior
living, LI if you wanted industrial.
Yeah. And again, I just sorry, I do think it'll work either way. Like I I
don't want to act like one way is vastly different. I think she did a great point
just explaining my thought process of reuse over time and calling it
commercial if we're not truly seeing these areas of commercial. Even though I
do know senior living operates as commercial. That's what I'm saying. I
get it. And to echo and I I won't go far just you do require a plan. That's the
plan development. You need to get a plan approved. It's just if you meet the code
requirements and you have a plan and and that's the zoning district,
that's what you're looking at. I will say too from another perspective of not
just future redevelopment of these senior living facilities but our our
commercial districts are are not very large right we are we are highly
residential we're a neighborhood community the city thrives very well on
it but I think it is important you know for the fiscal responsibility of us in
this community is to ensure that we do protect those those commercial districts
that we have and we allow them to continue operating and to continue
bringing in sales tax dollars to the city so we can continue to be as great
as we are. And so keeping that separate where they and not to be, you know, too
abrasive, but they they don't bring in tax dollars. And so keeping those
outside of those districts is going to protect those existing commercial
zonings and make sure that use is exactly what that's for. And then those
can operate, the senior living facilities can operate in other spaces
that are less commercial attractive.
» Alderman Davis. So there are two 5 acre maybe 5 acre plus uh sections across
from Thomas Jefferson school um that right now one is completely it's all
trees it's never been developed at all and one has five houses on it I think so
how can that can those be changed to be senior living um areas or not
» the owners could apply for a reasonzoning if they wished to do that
under under this they would meet that 5 acre requirement. Obviously, we'd have
to look at their plan. And that's the thing, too. Now, you're talking about a
complete resoning, which is a heftier process. The board has a lot more
authority on saying no to a resoning than you would on something that's
permitted, even if it's conditional. Um, but to answer your question, anybody
could apply and if at that time the board thought that that was a suitable
use for that space, you all would approve a reszoning and then essentially
eventually a plan development. >> Okay. Thank you. Any other questions
from the board? >> Just a comment if we're going to key and
I I think it is appropriate if we're going to look to Friendship Village as
um an inspiration for how we move forward. You know, that the existing
size of that is 50 acres and that's what makes it such a beautiful campus with so
many amenities. Um and it's adding on another
six acres. Um, I think five acres is woefully small for if you're going to um
set up a whole new zoning district. Thank you.
» Any other comments from the board? Alderman Columbo? I I think I would add
that Peace Haven is also a model of how to upgrade and build and that is on five
acres and I I not to say that like Lommy Place condos and that's not necessarily
a senior thing but that's less than a 5 acre piece. I mean so tasteful things
can be done on five acre >> pieces of property that look very nice
and blend in with our community. >> Okay. Anyone from the audience have any
comments during our public hearing?
Mr. Hardy
Frank Hardy 421 Raburn. I have a hodgepodge just listen to you all a lot
of thoughts. Um, I talked to Mike a little bit before this meeting began and
the five acre issue uh uh came up. Uh, as you probably know, you have four
senior living facilities in the city right now. Uh, one of them is uh 3 acres
in Friendship Village is 50 acres. He didn't know what the next one is above
uh three acres. So I'm I'm questioning, you know, you you think about Friendship
Village and also think about Lar Park or Lomar U
» [clears throat] >> uh senior living there and is 5 acres
large enough? Um and also am concerned about the uh
setbacks that are listed here. Um when LMAR uh was was built, yes, it was
supposed to be condos uh and it was changed to senior living. Um but there
was a number of issues uh as it was being built. I happened to be an
alderman at the time and Doug Magcguire happens to be here at this meeting uh
was an alderman and also the trustee on Merit Drive. And there were some
residents that backed up to uh that facility and they had a whole bunch of
issues and uh justified issues too. So um I'm also thinking back to when I was
an alderman years ago. Uh some uh residents in Sunset Manor approached me
about reszoning that area. um they were zoned at R5, which is 7,500
square ft. And so if they wanted to do anything to
their homes, uh their lots were too small. The average lot uh in uh Sunset
Matter is 50 by 132, which calculates to just over 5,000 ft. So, uh, the majority
of those people had to jump through hoops just to do, uh, some improvements
to their homes. So we uh decided the board back then to
uh reduce or create a new zoning uh classification of R six which is 5,000
square ft which uh for most of it uh uh that satisfied
um them allowing to do things and having not to jump over a couple of hurdles to
do those improvements. There were some that still had to fill out forms and and
uh uh jump over those hurdles uh to do those improvements to their home. But
the question is what is the right size? Obviously, you think about uh Friendship
Village being a model here, but I understand that there are smaller ones,
but places like Larmore are bigger than than uh uh that 5 acres, too. So,
and I asked Mike, uh you know, there's nothing proposed, but where are you
thinking of putting uh these uh senior living facilities? And because
nothing has been proposed yet, he didn't have an answer for that. But there's a
whole lot of uh concern here. Uh I'd ask that you uh not read this uh for a
second time tonight and possibly hold the uh public hearing open till till
next month so other residents uh might be able to come and add their comments.
Uh but um think about what's the appropriate size uh for this
and what are the appropriate measurements, building size, setbacks,
all that kind of stuff um that goes into something like this. Uh I don't have the
answers uh but I I want to call that to your attention to uh consent. So thank
you for your time. >> Mr. Hardy, I also had the pleasure of
serving on the board of alderman with you and Dr. Magguire during the process.
» Yeah. >> of Lomar.
» Thank you. >> I'm not that old.
» I'm not either. >> That's a lie. [laughter]
» Are any other comments from the audience?
» All right. We'll now close the public hearing and move on to public comment.
Dr. Magcguire.
Doug Maguire, 12501 Merit Drive. Isn't that right? Isn't that where I have to
go? [laughter] Okay. I get lost sometime. Big deal. Anyway, I came up.
Some of you don't always Friendship Village or Peace Haven or [laughter]
» Please, not quite yet. Maybe next week.
Anyway, um some people here probably don't know me, but I just retired last
month, uh in June after serving for 20 years, and I started out behind the
desk. I was an alderman with the aforementioned mayor, who I'm
so proud of, and and thank you for putting up with me [laughter] for so
many years. We did a lot of good. But uh I also uh want to thank my old I called
him the boss Gerald. What a work this man is. He is such a valuable asset to
this city. The man not only does everybody like him, especially the
people that work for him. But that's not just here, it's everywhere we go, you
know, around the state. Everyone likes Gerald. and and I really respect him for
all the work he does. I know he's on top of every single grant that we can get,
which is what a modern-day parks board is supposed to be all about. And he
certainly fits that bill. And if this city ever loses him, we will be in a bad
place. He will be very hard to replace. not as hard as me. But [laughter]
but I also wanted to tell you that I've recently found myself in four major
categories these days. I'm a 20enter. I'm a 4enter. I'm a 1enter and I'm a
less than 1enter. Now the 20% is I'm one of the 20% people
that can drive a stick shift. 80% of the people nowadays cannot drive
a stick shift car anymore, which is ridiculous, but so I think, but what do
I know? And the the less than 1%. I've spent 20 years working for the
city. Guess what? Nobody else. Hardly anyone else. Well, sorry, Frank. You're
in that group [laughter] and the mayor, but there's very, very
few that get that far. the [snorts] other ones.
Um, [clears throat] 1% I got drafted into the army in 1970
and only 1% of the United States population serves in the military. Now,
I'm not telling you I wanted to go. Vietnam was still cooking and if you got
drafted, you know where you were going to go. And uh, it was not a pleasant
thing. And it was even worse when we got home. Back in those days, I could not
have stood up here and talked. They would have told me to hit the door. We
were They all thought we were going to freak out and blow everybody up.
Whatever. Anyway, but my 4% is something we could all do. I'm one of the 4% of
Americans who give blood regularly. And I would love to see this make
America great again. You want to make America great? Give your blood. give
your organs. These are the things that make America great. It's not money. It's
not all this crazy stuff that's going on. And I don't want to tell you the
president was a draft dodger. Don't want to say that cuz I did my duty. Anyway,
again, thank you, mayor, for all the years. Gerald couldn't be happier with
what we did and how things went. It's going to continue. Oh, one more thing.
Please utilize the art committee when things go through that are art related.
I think they should go through the art committee.
They need more to do too, you know, just keep them busy. They have good ideas,
but always more to do. Thank you everyone. Hope you have a pleasant
evening. >> Thank you for your service, Dr.
Magcguire.
» Have any other public comments? [laughter]
Do we have any other public comments? Mrs. Gillette, have you received any?
Mrs. Stone, have you received any email? Okay, moving on now to old business.
We have none. City official and committee reports, city clerk, city
administrator, Mrs. Gillette. That'll be hard to follow. Um, just a reminder that
we do have two meetings next month. We will have our regularly scheduled board
of alderman meeting and then we will have our work session. We'll do that
with the finance committee. That one typically starts at 5:30 on the 4th
Tuesday. Thank you. >> Director of finance, Mr. Tman.
» Thank you, Madame Mayor. Uh, as I've been talking about for the last several
months, tonight is the 2026 midyear budget adjustment is in front of you. Um
it was presented at the finance committee in July and they unanimous
unanimously recommended uh for your approval. It's on there for a second
reading tonight which is per usual that we do. Uh the overall adjustment is
favorable but favorable by 130,800. Next month as Britney mentioned we'll
have the two meetings. At the first meeting we'll have the public hearing
for the real estate and personal property tax rates. Um, and then we'll
put the ordinance in that meeting as well to be read. And then as Britney
mentioned, uh, the second meeting is the budget. So, right now, that's what
finance is involved in. That's what my head's been in all day is 2027's budget.
The city staff are preparing all their capital uh, five-year capital plans. I'm
consolidating all that data and we're putting it all together so that staff
can review all of that, put together all the information for you all next month.
So, it's a busy time right now for us. Thank you all for your time.
» Thank you very much, Chief of Police. Chief Dodge.
» Thank you, Mayor. Uh we finished up with our last uh phone scam presentation uh
last month. Uh overall, it was pretty successful. We had uh over 40 people
attend um between the two presentations, about 40 minutes of presentation, and
then about a half hour of of question uh afterwards. So, everyone was really um
paying attention and into it and so hopefully uh it, you know, it helped and
we might do this again sometime in the near future. Um we did conduct some
active shooter training at Chestnut Rehab uh conducted by Officer Greg
Schnitker and Detective Sergeant Pisker. Um talked to him about what our response
would be, what they can do if god forbid ever happens there. Um this is something
we have done for for businesses and schools and and other entities. So
certainly if anybody is is interested in that, just contact the PD and that's
something we can help them out with. Um and then lastly, we uh have our uh body
cams and our new radios all up and operational. A lot of hard work by
Lieutenant Greg's Vital and uh Jeff Morris um getting those systems up and
running. Um so they really are a nice upgrade from what we had before. So
we're very appreciative for that as well because I know the board approved that.
So thank you on that one. And if anyone has any questions,
» Alderman Davis. >> Yes, ma'am.
» Okay. I've been I think all of us probably have been receiving those
messages about flop cameras and the audio being used and being and some
people doing things they shouldn't be doing with them. So, how do we audit
that? What's the process in Sunset Hills? Well, we do have we do have a uh
policy concerning all our systems, whether it's Flock,
um our body cams, uh Regis, any kind of database that we are that we do have, we
we have a policy that says they are for official use only and any use beyond
that can result in discipline up to and including termination. So what we also
have done recently is we had all the sergeants address this issue obviously
because it is a hot button issue with all the officers at all the roll calls
to let them know hey this is something that's obviously people are paying a lot
of attention to and again you know readise them of the policy so to speak.
I myself has put have put out emails concerning latest incidents that have
happened in the news that we've seen that have resulted in officers getting
charged and fired and whatnot and just reemphasized them to them. Hey, this is
just an very important database to us. It really is. I asked our detectives
today. I said, "Hey, what percentage do you think of our cases that we go out
and solve do we utilize this flock system?" And they said just about every
one of them. Um I know it it also prevented, you know, stop. We had car
clottings really bad up at the Grand View neighborhood. I don't know if you
remember that. they were getting hammered and uh including one incident
where they uh had a subject go into one of the garages armed with a pistol and
that was caught on camera. A flock system was put into that neighborhood by
that neighborhood and we haven't had a problem since. Um same goes with the
Gravo Industrial neighborhood. We had uh we they put in a flock system down
there. We were getting hit there a couple times a week. Haven't had a
problem. So we really emphasize to the officers, hey, this is too important of
a system for us to mess up because if this keeps on happening, that's that's
what will happen. People will take it away. Now, we do have an audit system in
place that is uh uh Mary Eler is the one who who gets a report at the end of the
month. Every time you uh pull up a do a flock search, you have to give a reason
and it has to have be a law enforcement reason. And so those are reviewed every
month by uh Mary and also the lieutenants as well. So this is
something we take very seriously and we understand the concern too. Okay.
Privacy is very important to people but this system is so important to us that
we want to make sure that we have tight controls on it to where people's
privacies are are respected and we're able to utilize this very important
tool. >> How how widespread is the flock camera
used in Sunset Hills in subdivisions? >> Well, we only have well we only have two
cameras. The city itself only has two cameras. Um but there's several
neighborhoods I want to say. Yeah, there's a I don't want to really put
them out there right now because these things are getting cut down left and
right, but um because that's that's a big problem we have right now is the
vandalism with these things. They're starting to uh cut cut them vandalize
them and do and other things to them. So, we're aware of that and if that
happens, we will investigate that, too. But, uh there are a lot of neighborhoods
that have utilized these that are utilized these and they they're paid for
by the neighborhoods, just so we're clear on that. um that can, you know,
alert us if if a stolen car comes in in the neighborhood or something like that
because that that's the big thing about a lot of the crimes are being committed.
They use stolen cars to commit these crimes. And so, you know, if we get hit
for a stolen car in a neighborhood, hey, that's something we're going to want to
go and get there as quickly as possible. So, it really is just a critical system
for us. So, we want to do everything we can to make sure it's not abused and
that we can keep using the system. >> So, I think I heard you say that more
than one person reviews if there's an issue. It's not just you making the
decision, it's you plus. Is that correct?
» Yeah, we have we have we we just recently it's started this because of
everything that's going on. We've always had the policy policyy's always been
there, but yeah, it it's a there's a report that's that's generated at at the
end of every month and it goes over who's using the system and for what
» and who reviews that. >> Right now we have uh Mary Eler is kind
of our uh flock person, but then it can also be she'll do that with a
conjunction of lieutenants as well. Thank you.
» Any other questions for the chief? >> This one goes I do have one. Go ahead.
» This one is about drones. Are we considering having drones?
» No. >> Okay.
» Alderman Akens. >> Thank you. I just had a quick question.
I noticed that Ward One accounts for nine of July's 12 larsenies. And I was
just wondering if there was a pattern that Ward One residents need to know
about. Like is this one neighborhood? Is this like random vehicle breakins? Just
anything that our residents need to know?
» Well, I think uh if I'm not mistaken, that incorporates some of the business
area. Correct. That's uh Home Depot and that area in there. So, yeah, that's
that's just I think I'm I'm almost sure. I'd have to look through it and I can
get an answer for you, but I'm pretty sure that's going to be like a lot of
shopliftings and that kind of thing. >> Okay. Thank you,
Alderman Freriedman. We um incorporated uh double fines on
» Denny are and it are the are any double fine tickets being written or I know
that's a discret discretionary thing. >> Well, I know the a bunch of tickets have
written have been written on there and the officers are aware. I haven't
specifically checked the tickets to see which ones have have been marked double
fine, but I think as far as I know they they probably most of them have been. I
but that's something I can look into. >> That is some certainly that we can check
with the prosecutor as well. >> Thank you very much, Chief.
» Thank you, >> city attorney, Mrs. Cely.
» Um, yes, I really don't have much report. Still working on some things in
the background. So hopefully we'll be able to bring some code amendments to
you as we move those. But unless there's any questions, that's all I have for
tonight. Okay. >> Any questions for Mrs. Celely?
» All right. >> Thank you so much. Director of Planning
and Public Works, Mr. Knight. >> I'm back. Um, just a couple things
tonight. Uh, one thing I want to make the the board aware of is every 5 years
we go out to bid for our trash, our solid waste. Um, we have gone out to
bid. Um, it's out there as once we get our bids returned, we'll return back to
committee and the board. Um, as we typically would, uh, we've been talking
about another city entrance sign at committee. you know, our city entrance
signs that sit on Lindberg at both entrances. There's another location
where we have an existing one on Watson um just right as you cross the Crestwood
border heading west talking to that property owner about uh putting one on
their property because they have to be out of rightway. They're agreeable.
We're just going out there talking to them and then u we'll program that in to
the budget for next year or put it for them. Um, so two projects. One,
Kennerly, we talked about Kennerly Road and the storm water infrastructure
replacement that is needed. We had a pre-construction meeting. Um, they
talked about how this would be done. It'll be a 4-day approach in which
they'll have to close down the road for 4 days from 9:00 a.m. to 300 p.m. Um, we
will get there the the big piece of infrastructure is in production. So once
we know it's completed, which should happen very soon, we'll have at least a
week's notice that we'll start um communicating to the public of this road
closure. Um it's a 4 day, so we want to start on a Monday. So we'll have, you
know, however works out for that week and start on a Monday. Um and which
again, it'll only be closed right at that spot, but message boards, Facebook,
all the ways that we communicate these road closures um will implement. West
Watson phase two. Again, we've been talking about that one. So, we're at the
first phase of phase two. We were uh Spire last time. They are currently
moving their infrastructure out of their way. T-Hill is moving everywhere they
can until they can close in, which is where they were going to start and
finish up. At earliest, we're projecting end of September. Um and again, we
talked at committee level. We say within two weeks once we get close enough to
where we can define a timeline but we're two weeks back we'll start communicating
the second phase of that closure from Pagata to the we'll call it the overpass
updates on both of those unless there's any questions that's what I have
contract >> so end of this year so January 2027 is
when it would start to 31 >> Alderman Schwarz Yeah, Mike, can you
give me an update on the Onyx schedule as well as the solar lights, speeds
lights? >> Oh, yes. So, I'll I'll start with the
solar lights because Jerry just mentioned today that um he either just
got them or he knows a date. So, remember that was either next year or
this year. We had funds in the budget, so we did order them. So, that should
happen fairly soon. Once he gets them, he'll put them up. Um Onyx, we're still
looking at that September date, early September. It hasn't changed since then.
» Okay. Thank you. >> Mhm. Any other questions for Mr. Knight?
All right. Thank you very much. Director of Parks and Recreation, Mr. Brown.
» Thank you, Madam Mayor. Just a couple of items. One is our tennis court. We will
be holding our ribbon cutting ceremony this Saturday at 10:00 a.m. Uh the
actual ribbon cutting will take place at 10:30. We're going to hold um clinics,
pickle ball clinics and tennis clinics. They'll start at 10:00. They'll run till
noon. So, if you've never played tennis or you want to understand how to play
pickle ball, we have people there to show everyone. We'll also have barbecue
for anyone that shows up after the actual ribbon cutting. So, or if you
haven't been by, there's two courts that are 100% complete. Um, and by Friday,
we're supposed to have the other two 100% complete. Uh, they look fantastic.
I will say that the two that are completely done look fantastic. So, um,
unfortunately, the tennis team couldn't get on them today. They had still had to
dry. U, but they're they're um they're wanting to get on them very quickly. So,
uh, Sunset Nights, it's our annual machine madness event. That's going to
be held next Wednesday, August 19th, 6:00 to 8:00 p.m. It's going to be held
at Minihaha Park. Compared to, in the past, we've always held it here. It's
very cramped. A lot of large trucks, dump trucks, mail trucks, army vehicles,
police vehicles, fire trucks, you name it, we have it where the kids can
actually go in, hit the horn, so forth. Um, that'll be from 6:00 to 8 on next
Wednesday. We also have food trucks and we have live music as well. So happy to
answer any other questions.
» Oh, thank you. >> Thank you very much, Mr. Brown.
» Mr. Brown, >> one question
» for Brian. >> Are we going to be able to fish in that
lake anytime soon? >> So, where we're at with that project, we
we had a survey conducted to do a grading plan. Uh the issue at hand has
always been about the watershed. We've had numerous people out there, different
contractors, architects, engineers trying to do the calculations. Do we
attract enough water to keep the water level at a certain height? So, there's
been discussion of putting an agricultural well to help feed that to
offset that. Uh, but what we did was we did a survey. We hired a company to come
in and actually just do a grading plan, very inexpensive survey, just to have
them come in, do a little light survey where grading needs to be done and
pushed. Um, I hope to have a proposal by the end of this week and we hope to
start to move dirt. You'll start to see some movement. Um, will we be able to
fish in it this year? >> I [laughter] I don't know. I I I don't
want to say yes, but maybe in December. It might be uh fishing in December, but
» ice fishing. >> And they're referring to the Bander
Property Fishing Lake for children. That is correct.
» That the foundation is supporting. >> Correct. And Mr. and the steering
family. So, >> so it is it's moving along and I do
apologize for the delay. It's just been a bigger project than we anticipated it
to be trying to do it in-house. So, >> well, we are making interest on the
money sitting there. So, that's good. >> Yeah, it wasn't the intention. The
intention was we really thought we could do it all in house and it's just been
become a bigger job than our six guys doing it. So,
» thank you, Mr. Brown. Moving on to committee reports, finance committee,
Alderman Fernandez. >> Thank you, Madame Mayor. Appreciate
that. And it is open for swimming. Uh [laughter]
mumbo, if you're right down. Yes. So, as uh Mr. Treman noted, we met on
the 27th of July and spent a fair amount of time going through the budget
adjustments. Uh that's important because year to year, these things are just hard
to follow. Uh there's just timing delays and things. Um but to his point,
unanimously approved those. So, thank you. Um, additionally, we did spend a
fair amount of time also talking about Prop P and everything that's coming
ahead. I know we have a steering committee is dealing with that, but
really diving deeply in these numbers and the committee is really excited um
to do some work on that. So, appreciate that. More to report next month.
» Any questions for Alderman Fernandez. Okay. Thank you very much. Parks and
Recreation Commission. Alderman Davis. >> Thank you. Um, our August meeting is
going to be a walkthrough of Watson Trail Park. in case you haven't been
there recently. It looks fabulous. Thank you, sir, for all the work you're doing.
Can't believe your head's not this big already from what Doug said. So, we also
have repair going on in both Minihaha and Watson Trail with asphalt and
overlays. And we have a day the day camp ended. We had 80 children attend on a
weekly basis. And our annual dog splash event will be September 9th and 11th.
And that's all I have to report. >> Thank you very much. Police Advisory
Board, Alderman Columbo. >> We will meet next Tuesday, but I would
like to add I had lunch with the police chief of Maplewood today and he is going
to have to go in front of his board to justify keeping the flock cameras and he
actually thinks he's going to lose. So, it's thankful to our alderman, our
residents, the support they show our law enforcement that we get to keep tools
like that to keep our community safer. So, it is very important that we
maintain those >> very much public works committee
alderman dos. >> Thank you, Madam Mayor.
» Uh, Mr. Knight, you were very uh concise in your report, so I edited a lot of my
notes. So, here are the things that Mike didn't bring up. So, I give you new
information. Uh, during the public comment time, Alderman Freeman led a
discussion on city assistance for private street maintenance in terms of
specifications and bid costing. It was a very good discussion.
» Turn on your mic, please turn on your mic.
» I thought I was loud enough anyway, but okay.
» Usually, you are. >> Yeah, I know. I know. [laughter]
Um we then move to a discussion on contractor selection results concerning
chip seal and the difference in results between
residential streets versus higher traffic arterial streets. It was very
good discussion. We then talked about contract
communication to our residents and we talked about what has been on the
past and what we were doing moving forward. And as Mike alluded to, but we
discussed it, it seems the sweet spot was two weeks. So, we all agreed on
that. Um, I brought up Weber Hill traffic.
That's in Ward 4. And some of the residents would like to see a no through
traffic sign on West Watson for people that are turning from Highway 30 because
they don't know after they've turned they don't know that it's no through
traffic many times till they get to Weber Hill. So where are they going to
go? They're either going to back up or going to go up Weber Hill. So I think
it's important for that. Um on waste collection, we had a resident come and
talk to us about his bad experiences with Eagle. Uh my experiences personally
have been very good, but his were not. And he wanted us to consider a second
vendor as well as getting options for two pickups a week as well as getting
options for bulk pickup on demand. So, I've talked a little bit about that with
Britney and we can discuss this if you all want to, but those were some of the
points made there. And um that's about it. Thank you, Madame Mayor.
» Okay. Thank you very much. Moving on now to new business, bill number 149. Would
you please read that for us, Alderman Doss?
» It's on, Frank. [laughter]
149, an ordinance approving and adopting a budget adjustment for the 2020 2026
budget. Move to suspend the rules.
» Second. >> Motion was made by Alderman Doss,
seconded by Alderman Aikens to suspend the rules for bill number 149. Roll call
vote, please. >> Alderman Daw,
» discussion. >> Oh, discussion. Alderman Freeman.
» This is budget adjustments. Um, why did the
» I'm sorry, Frank. [laughter] Why did the pension contribution rate
increase? >> It changes every year.
» Okay. And is that a statutory? I Is it a statutory thing? Is it a formula thing?
» It's a formula thing. It's based on the valuation of our plan and the age of our
employees and it just changes every year.
» And who increases it? >> Loggers. Yes, ma'am.
And how is there a loss on the cell phone tower? What is PV adjustment?
» Go ahead. >> Yeah. [clears throat]
» So, that is a present value adjustment that I had to do for our Sorry, I
[clears throat] lost my voice a couple days ago and I'm still recovering. Um,
we have our cell tower lease with AT&T, >> right?
» And we receive checks from them every month. Well, they have a portion of
those checks is for like dish revenue, and we were informed in February of this
year that $550 that we got every month that was part of a rent check uh payment
is no longer going to be continuing into the future. And this lease goes through
2039, the beginning of 24th. So, I had to recalculate what the receivable is
for that entire lease. And by doing that, by removing that 550 every month,
that's the adjustment to get it to a new present value for for our balance sheet.
» Okay, that that's an asset though. I mean, that gets you to the asset.
» Setting liability is deferred income, >> right?
» Okay. >> Right. So,
» so we're going to get $550 less a month. >> Yes.
» Okay. That's just going to happen. Okay. But we had already showed it as an asset
on the >> I had to reduce the asset the liability
offsetting. That was the difference. >> Okay. And how about correcting the
$25,000 correcting wage allocation? >> Yes, ma'am.
» On full-time aquatic. >> Yes, ma'am. Uh I would say that was just
an error on my part. I had we had another employee that got added to the
pool this last year and when I had their salaries the other employee had their
salaries split between general and pool and I copied that formula down and then
I discovered the error here. So that's correcting that error.
» Okay. Okay. Thank you. All right. We have a motion and a second to suspend
the rules. Roll call vote, please. >> Alderman Dawze.
» I. >> Alderman Freriedman I.
» Alderman Wagel >> I.
» Alderman Columbbo. I >> Alderman Schwarz.
» I >> Alderman Davis.
» I >> Alderman Akens.
» I >> Alderman Fernandez.
» I >> Eight eyes's.
» Thank you. Alderman Daws, would you please read bill number 149 for a second
reading? >> Bill number 149, an ordinance approving
and adopting a budget adjustment for the 2026 budget. Move to approve.
» Second. >> She was made by Alderman Daws, seconded
by Alderman Davis. Roll call vote, please.
» Alderman Fernandez, >> I.
» Alderman Akens, >> I.
» Alderman Davis, >> I.
» Alderman Schwarz, >> I.
» Hi. >> Wigle.
» I. >> Alderman Freriedman.
» I. >> Alderman Daws. Eight eyes.
» Thank you,
Mrs. Stone. I don't have the sheet to write that down on. So, we will have to
uh >> I think it's 24. Let me look it up
really quick, mayor. Sorry. >> Oh, wait a minute. It's hidden. I'm
sorry. >> You get it?
» Yes. Bill number 149 becomes ordinance number 2428.
» Perfect. >> It's stuck under my agenda.
Bill number 150. Would you please read that for us? Alderman Freriedman.
» Madame Mayor. Bill number 150, an ordinance amending various sections of
the unified development ordinance relating to recreational land use. First
reading. >> Alderman Columbo.
» Yeah, I'd like to make a motion to amend that or
it's in relation to the parking requirement. Um, with the one per 200
being too restrictive, one per 600 too liberal,
I'd like to figure out a balance somewhere in there um that would be
acceptable to all, whether that's one per 400, one per 350, or one per 300.
Um, and if I go back off of my notes,
you had a one per 400, a one per 480, a one per 335, a one per 700, a one per
600. >> Um, at the other places that I sort of
looked into that were similar. Um, I I don't know. I'm I'm I'm willing to
hear from. >> Do you have any recommendations?
» I said during the public hearing I can look into it, but five per thousand is
what I went with, but I gladly do, but I don't have another number like pocketed
ready to go. >> Do you have a number you'd buy?
» I I mean, I don't know that one per 400
might seem a little high, so maybe one per 350. I think that kind of splits it
a little bit where it it's not so restrictive that will you know and what
I go off of is like Spirit Gymnastics if if that if
they were to try and do now what they've been doing with their
14,000 square ft you know currently have 27 spots and they're they are utilizing
a couple of spots just random them around the back so say an extra five
spots 32 spots just by our ordinance, they'd
have to have 70 just for the gymnastics portion and then still provide for the
other 20,000 square feet of light and you know
so it it gets really burdensome to try and meet that threshold so that maybe
one per 350 I mean it seems
I'm sorry Fred >> I don't want to interrupt you
just wanted to hear what you had to safe. But
» do we Okay, if we did, how many parking spots are there right now? Can we get
into some actual data? >> I think we should be very careful not to
focus solely on one >> user while we're talking about amending
as a whole for the whole thing. >> What you're saying could be very very
reasonable. I just don't have a concept of what is reasonable. Well, and that's
why I was trying to give examples that we currently have in those areas, you
know, like Veta 60 spots and that's including, I believe, three handicap
spots for 45 to 50,000 square feet. So, that's very they're they're above the
one per 600, but I don't know that it's ever full or not full. I just you never
hear anybody. May I f may I follow up with something just Okay. So listening
to the gentleman in the previous meeting, I think I have a pretty good
concept of what is being proposed. When I've gone to a facility like this
in Denver with my grandchildren, there are various pitching components
that are pretty much one onone with with the teacher and and and things. There's
a catcher, of course. There is probably in the Denver place
there were probably three or four maybe yeah three or four at the most batting
stations. In those there might have been 10, 12,
13, 14 kids and a number of instructed. Once they got into the cage they
obviously swung but they worked with them out of the cage. So if you multiply
that, there might have been between the pitching and the batting maybe
40 50 kids there. I don't know how many parking spots that would require.
Everything you're saying seems to make sense to me, but I [snorts] have no
concept. I if you go by the facility that they're
currently sharing with another baseball group, right?
They have 27 spots in front of that and that's next door to the basketball
facility that my daughter goes to. So, I see the parking and they're not spilling
into our basketball parking utilizing those spots. So, I'm
comfortable. I mean, it's still going to require them
40 spots, I believe, or 50 spots in that particular instance, which is way more
than what we're requiring Spirit Gymnastics or Vetta to have per square
foot. So, I that's why I think we just kind of balance it out and let Mike
maybe verify some of the things that I've seen here, but I would move to
amend the one per 350. And if it's too liberal, when we go to the second
reading, we could change it. >> Yeah. I think there's also other
resources, right? So like there's other cities, they have these in their
regulations. We can take a look at some other cities. There is just engineering
transportation manuals that provide numbers. So the IT parking generation
manual, I think they're on their sixth edition. Let's see what they have. Let's
see what other cities have. I mean, we we can put one per three, but that's
just what the draft ordinance will be in front of you. But I can always still
come back with that information and I think answer some of these questions
that we're talking about now. >> All right. So, do you want to continue
tonight to amend it or do you want to wait until next month after more
research has been completed? >> And I'd make a motion to amend now and
then figure out if we went >> too too far one way or the other.
» Motion to amend to that number. Yes. Okay.
» Okay. There's a motion to amend bill number 150 to allow for parking one to
350. one per 350 gross feet area. >> Have a second.
» Yes. >> Alderman Schwarz made a second to that
motion. >> Yes.
» To to the amendment.
» Um roll call vote for the amendment.
» Aldering Columbbo. >> That mean
» you Yes. Voting for the amendment. >> I couldn't hear. [laughter]
» Hi Davis Bernins >> I
» Alderman Fernandez >> I
» Alderman Wel >> I
» Alderman Freriedman >> Alderman Daws
» eight eyes. >> So next month bill number 150 will be
read as amended for the second reading. All right. Bill
number 151. Will you please read that for us? Alderman Schwarz.
Bill number 151, an ordinance amending various sections of the unified
development ordinance relating to creating a senior living SL zoning
district. First reading >> second
a motion for the second reading is that >> yes
can second my motion. I'd like to make a motion to um I know it's the first
reading to uh ask staff to come back to us with an option for
looking at this as a use without having a senior living district that we could
look at it side by side. >> I would second that.
» And I I don't know if that I'll Okay. [laughter] I was going to say you did.
» That's a good idea. >> Okay.
» Second it should second. >> Doss did. Okay. There's a motion.
» Sorry. >> To uh ask staff to come back and ask for
an option use without senior living.
» Did I rephrase that correctly? to to amend the UDO in such a way as to make
the various nursing home planned retirement
um permitted or conditional uses rather than establish an entire new zoning
district. >> Mike, are you comfortable that that's
not too big of a change? They would have to go back to planning and zoning.
» So, I understand I was I don't know if that's how the public hearing was
actually advertised. If it just said senior living uses or the SL district,
» we would need to start over. >> But would it matter how it advertised?
Because >> if it just
» I think it is I >> just because when I
» because if it's looking at that and it's not a timely issue. I mean
» no no it's not a time you should want to follow the processes advertised
appropriately. >> Yeah.
I mean I think that is fairly different concept
» right and I think you're right >> yes so then we need updated motion to
bring it back right >> so would we
» I would like to make a motion to remand this to public
» to planning and zoning that would include
» the option the the ordinance brought to us today along with an optional
ordinance that would uh present this as planned and conditional uses for
» in an existing district >> for retireing
homes assisted. >> Yeah.
» Mhm. >> We already had a motion and a second.
Are you withdrawing the first one? >> Yes.
» Yes. >> Okay. So, now we have another one.
» Do we have a second? >> Yes. a motion and a second from Alderman
Donis. Um, would you like that read again so everyone understands please
what they're voting on? >> Okay. [laughter] Cuz I'm like ah [gasps]
I will I will try to rephrase this more artfully.
I'm making a motion to remand this ordinance to planning and zoning
and include with it a draft ordinance as an alternative that would present
assisted retirement centers, nursing homes,
and the other uses >> plan retirement care center. Yes, the
four uses um as permitted or conditional uses in the commercial districts
and any amendments, you know, if if section five needed to be amended to
include that. >> Okay, we have a motion by Alderman
Freriedman, a second by Alderman Daws. Uh roll call vote. May I ask a
clarifying question? >> Yes, there discussion. Alderman Akens,
» I just want to clarify. You're asking for them to bring two different
versions. Is that correct? >> Well, if you'd rather bring it to the
board for discussion rather than I understand what you're saying.
» Yeah. It's just a little confusing to present two ordinances going through the
public hearing process, but say you get to pick one. That's not okay. The
standard. I I actually would prefer the idea of bringing it for a discussion and
then you guys giving us direction from that point if which one you want to move
forward with. I think that's a lot cleaner.
» Are you withdrawing are you withdrawing this ordinance and second?
» Is this the third time? >> Yes, madam. Yes, madame mayor. Yes,
ma'am. [laughter] [gasps]
» Okay. So, we're starting fresh now. >> Okay. to direct staff to bring to the
board an alternative draft ordinance for consideration that
would include making assisted retirement centers um nursing homes and
planned retirements assisted living >> nursing homes and um
» rehabilitation >> planners
» center >> as permitted andor conditional uses in
the general general the commercial district.
» Commercial >> unlimited commercial district.
» Thank you for destruction. >> All right. Now, do we have a second?
» Yes, Madam Mayor. >> Thank you.
» Seconded the motion. >> Okay.
» So, can I get some clarification? [clears throat]
» Alderman Columbo. >> So, we just had a first reading of this
bill. >> So, we'll still have a second reading of
this bill next month. >> Is that correct?
» We don't have to. There's nothing that requires it go back on. So I would
» drawn their motions and their seconds, >> right? So it's still alive.
» Not this bill though. It's >> the bill is still alive. It does not
have to be placed on the next agenda. So what we'll do is put both of these on
for discussion and then if you guys choose to move forward with with the one
that exists now, we can put that on for second reading at the October meeting.
If you choose to move forward with the one that allows permitted and
conditional uses within general commercial districts, that process will
have to start over because it is too big of a change to say, "Hey, we've already
advertised this as a public hearing because technically we have not." So,
we'll start that process back over. It'll just pause bill 151 and it has to
go back through planning and zoning again. Yeah.
» Correct. >> Okay. All right. So, do you all
understand what you're voting on? >> Oh, sure.
» Okay. Call vote. >> Freriedman.
» Hi. >> Alderman Daws.
» Hi. >> Alderman Andez.
» Hi. >> Alderman Aikens.
» Hi. >> Alderman Davis.
[laughter] >> Um. I
» Aldrick Columbbo. >> Nay.
» I. [clears throat] >> Seven eyes. One. Nay.
We'll put it on for discussion in September.
» All right. Moving on now for appointments. Peter Rodic, Parks and
Recreation Commission, term to expire 811 2031. That would be in Ward 3. Jill
Aresky, Chairman, Parks and Recreation Commission, term to expire 1820.
And uh would you like to take these together or individually?
» Together. Um if you said the parks um ward I I
missed it. I know Mr. Rodic is three >> is Jill Archeski is in Jill. She's
already on. This is just the appointment of a chairman. This is not a new
appointment. Yes, we lost our chairman. >> But there's been some confusion about
wards. So she is she's W >> she's W two and already on the board. So
it's not filling a vacancy or something. It's just filling the position that Doug
just left as chairman. She's taking over as chairman, but continuing her term on
parks and recreation. >> Okay, we have a motion to take them both
together from Alderman Dawze. Is there a second?
» Second. >> Motion was made by Alderman Columbo. All
in favor? >> I oppose. All right, we will notify them
of their new jobs. Uh any items under general discussion?
Alderman Freriedman. >> Um yeah, actually a couple. Um the just
to give an update on uh the steering committee um
about the uh storm water and parks tax. Um first of all, we keep talking about
Prop Ps and we already have a Prop P fund. I I'd
prefer we call this storm water storm water or parks fund or SP but we
isn't isn't it Prop P funds? Yeah. So >> So there's there will be confusion
moving forward. I'm afraid there's already Prop Ps for the police
department. >> Okay. But it is Prop Ps and it's just
the second phase of it maybe. >> No, they're two very separate things.
Prop P. >> Prop P doesn't stop. That is effective
right now until next April. >> No, there are Prop funds
» account um the county >> fund number 15.
» You're talking about the funds that go to the police.
» Correct. The county. >> If we're going to be talking about Prop
P, we'd have two Prop Ps. I just think calling
the the storm water parks or park storm water a different thing might be
» but it was passed as proposition P. >> Okay.
» So, >> okay. So, we'll have two prop P funds.
» We call we've always labeled the it parks and stormwater fund on all of your
account information. >> Yeah. Okay. Well, we met and we gathered
a lot of information about the current we've met twice. uh current and
historical uh funding of the parks and recreation department. And when we say
that, we include pools. Um Natalie has taken two big unwieldy master plans and
consolidated them into a workbook with um notes that help us to help us focus
on um relative priorities between the two plans. And Mark has met with Gerald
to discuss his top Gerald's top priorities. So, thanks to um Britney and
Jeff and Gerald for all of this advanced information. And a
couple um things caught our attention. Um first, we need to get our arms around
how parks is budgeted between the general fund, the capital fund, and the
storm water tax dollars. From year to year, it appears that different line
items of the budget are paid from different funds. And it seems to us that
this should be evaluated and standardized.
Second, as we were looking at this information, it it occurred that all of
this falls into the larger picture of funding priorities across the city. Um,
you know, there were 30 or 32 people that that said their top priority in the
comments were sidewalks. So that that falls into you know kind of the larger
city and the the best practice we think is to understand the obligations the
city has on its books now in the form of existing assets particularly
aging assets and assess the budgetary needs that are going to be required to
maintain them properly into the future. And the
priority may well be to move some expenses from the general some some of
the park expenses, traditional park expenses from the general fund and the
capital fund to the stormwater parks or park storm water tax bucket to give the
city greater flexibilities to address all of the priorities citywide.
um and this would comport with the surveys finding that the highest scoring
priority um is to focus over the next 20 years on um maintenance and it's
something that Mr. Dunl from Cochran um advocated when he made his presentation
to the board. Um, so at this point it may be better it may
be a better place for the finance committee to look into these issues to
evaluate and standardize how line items are paid from respective funds. assess
the financial obligations of the city to maintaining existing assets and budget
expenses um appropriately from each fund to
achieve the most impactful um results and then we can understand then after
we've understood these existing obligations and funding for them explore
priorities across the city. Um, Alderman Fernandez is
is that something that sounds
» very much so um >> within the wheelhouse of the finance
committee? >> Yes. and they're very willing to do
that. Um, as part of the discussion we had at the last committee meeting is
they're kind of asking what more can we do and this is an area of focus for
everyone and I think from my lens it would be in
conjunction with obviously the the finance department because they're going
to have the data and I think we're going to need both some answers and maybe a
collaboration through the whole group. >> Alderman Davis. So, how does all this
meld together with our master plan that we approved a couple months ago?
» Well, I think I guess and I'll I'll go on record of clarifying when we approve
the master plan as approving the plan, not any of those priorities underneath
there is like that they were actually going to happen. So, that was part of
the discussion we had is that we need to evaluate these what do they really cost?
What do we have to the point of existing liabilities? in one example and that
would be out of the dollars that we've learned kind of looking at these is
portions of the storm water and parks dollars have been spent on things like
salary not necessarily capital projects through time. So we need to evaluate
what is that that are fixed costs we're already committed to. So when we look at
the dollars we're have available they may not be as great as we think. We need
to understand at least what that looks like going forward. So it's some of
those things and and I appreciate the finance firm may know a lot of these
answers already. It's a lot of us looking at it new and trying to
understand how those things are laying out.
» So those things that are aging out that need replenished that will be very well
considered. Right. I'm just thinking about the pool for example
because the so we have so many citizens that really absolutely would just go
berserko if we took away their lazy river opportunity.
» Well and I think again from our lens it's sort of what are we committed to
already? Um and obviously since this whole one um came about we've committed
a lot more to parts over time. So we need to understand that along with then
how do we think about adding new after that like what actually do we have at
our disposal to do that and on what timeline I think that's the other part
and I think is you know you guys know way better than we do on some of the
infrastructure even buildings like those are massive projects that we may need to
do. >> So can we put in trolleys that take us
from park to park to park? >> One in Delmar we could look into
probably. I know it >> might be for sale. Yeah,
» horseback. [laughter]
I would like to make a comment. Um I'm excited to hear that there were that
many comments about sidewalks because most of you sitting up here have known
that that's one of my big priorities. So I'm excited to work with Brian about
spending some money on sidewalks in these upcoming years.
» I believe there may be a misunderstanding and 32 is not exactly a
sampling size. Um but we're very willing to look at all priorities. I'd like to
add >> that to the agenda for the next public
works meeting, please. >> Well, and I think what it gets down to
is what we're trying to say is everybody wants their lazy river pool
and that's great and everybody wants sidewalks and a lot of people want
things and they they probably can't have them all. we have to priorities at this
time. we do have a pool that is in use and we want to maintain and what's that
going to cost into the future and is that where is the priority and that's
kind of where we think the finance committee can do a deeper dive and
understand the existing obligations before we go out and add more assets and
and financial obligations. And I concur to that end. It's something
we haven't really put that work into some of the things in the past that we
certainly could and being a board member up here when you know knowing we're
asked to do things without having as much information by nobody's fault. It's
just this is the biggest thing I think we've seen in front of us and I'd go
back to cyworks sidewalks versus like roads that we know maybe need some
attention that we haven't dealt with. We don't really I don't have a really good
handle on that. So, as the finance committee helping advise this group, I
know we could do a better job than what we've done so far.
» So, when is our budgeting committee meeting occurring that we're
» fourth fourth Tuesday in September? >> Fourth Tuesday in September.
» Fourth Tuesday. Okay. Thank you.
» I can [snorts] I can add one comment. Marian, I've met with Gerald or Mr.
Brown and uh I don't think we either one of us have uh had any discussion about
taking away the lazy river. >> That is good news. [laughter]
» Thank you. >> Any other comments for general
discussion? >> Alderman Freriedman. Um, as we were
looking through, you know, these budgetary items, it came
to our attention that there is, um, a lease on the building at Watson Trails
and the lease was entered into in 2019 for 2 years and it's renewable.
Um, subsequent to that time, uh, there was an ordinance passed that any lease
has to be, um, approved by ordinance, and this has not come up before the
board. Um, I I don't know a whole lot about the lease. It's two pages. It
doesn't look very leasy. I'm not sure who signed it and it may be the best
idea in the world, but I don't think it it doesn't address the kind of things
that we saw when we went through the BMX. Um, so I' I'd like to ask Aaron to
take a look at the lease and, you know, I don't know if, you know, I don't know
whether to put Aaron on it first or have staff kind of outline to us what's
really happening behind the lease. Um, but I think I think it's incumbent on
us. there's a city asset that's being leased that I didn't know about and I've
asked specifically a lot about leases. So, I I'd like to understand this and if
we're, you know, and and get it into a proper
document that that um protects the city there. There's
no cross insurance in it. Um,
so I'd like to understand that better and I'd like to direct I don't know if
the starting point is Aaron looking at it or if the starting point is staff ex
you know explaining this you know how this operates in real in the real world.
I I can't speak to what happened in 2019. Um but the Open Space Council is a
nonprofit organization. They have been renting a room at our park maintenance
facility since 2019. We have treated it like a like a room
rental at the community center. Um, and I I do understand what the paperwork
says, but that's that's how it's been treated historically. We can certainly
move forward with something more formal. And at that point, yes, I would
recommend getting our city attorney involved.
» Are you finished? >> Well, I don't know.
» Oh, no. I I'm asking, are you finished? Alderman Freeman,
» hear what Alderman has to say. Say it with your big booming voice, Fred.
» Microphone's still on. Um, we passed an ordinance on leases
that the finance committee would review before the city signed them. And I don't
know what has happened between 2019 and today. And I'm not going to try to go
down that road and point fingers, but I would like to see the finance committee
review this lease. From the financial perspective, yes, but
also support from the legal having gone through this prior with BMX as you
noted. Yeah, certainly to understand what it is and financially whether it's
again know our role was to look at it, make sure it feasibly made sense from
that and we weren't giving something away. So, kind of a different lens.
» Is this an lease that just runs forever or did it have a termination date on it?
» I believe it said there was a two-year option, but it's been just roll. So
you're you're just handling it like a a leased room at the community center,
» a rented room at the community center. The income goes into community center
revenue. It is handled exactly like that. But I it is continuous and it
would not hurt to have our city attorney take a look at it. And then yes, it
would now follow the process of a lease space which was done after 2019 which is
why I assume that it did not go through that process then
» but it will in the future take care of that.
» Yeah. I >> I would like to make sure they have
insurance and that, you know, we're covered if something would happen
because that's a could be a liability. >> Okay. If they continue to lease or if
they're just renting the room like they do at the community center, do they need
insurance? >> If they're renting a room at the
community center, they do not. But if we do, if we move forward with a lease in
our park maintenance building, yes, we would recommend there would be insurance
within the lease. >> Okay, we'll take care of that. Any other
general discussion items?
» Somebody just raised their hand. [laughter]
» Does anybody else have anything? >> Alderman Freriedman.
» Yeah. Also in the course of uh of looking into
you know doing due diligence for the steering committee, I wanted to go back
and um hear the and review the meetings for the parks um department and
the finance department, planning and zoning, the public works department all
have meetings that are accessible by Zoom and they're recorded. And you know,
last year we had $5.6 million out of $13 million of the city budget spent on
parks. And there's nothing on they're not it's not recorded. It's not
accessible to the public. And [snorts] I I'd like to um make a motion that moving
forward all parks and recrecks um meetings be held with a Zoom option and
with the meeting recorded so that it is um available on the website, you know,
as a matter of transparency like we do with all of our other committees.
Alderman Akens. As a member of the parks committee, I
just want to say that we often meet at the parks and we walk through them and I
think that's a very important thing that we do and during those meetings I don't
know how it would be possible to record those and have a zoom but otherwise when
we meet here that that makes sense to >> well the the agenda items can be
discussed in chambers and then and then the um and I think it is important for
the committee members to to walk the parks But I don't think they're mutually
exclusive. And for, you know, 42 43% of our budget to be spent and and we can't
hear what's going on in that committee. I think I think we can improve upon
that. So, I would make a motion that parks
conduct meetings that are accessible by Zoom and um
uh posted on the web recorded and posted on the website.
» Alderman Columbo. >> So, I'm I'm curious how that works when
they meet at Minihaha to to do their meeting and walk.
» They start their meeting here and then they go to Minihaha.
You know, I >> statistically it doesn't make a lot of
sense. >> Well, how often does that happen?
» Minutes. It's good weather. We a lot in the summer.
» Here, the park complex, Minihaha, Watson Trails,
» and at the pool, >> Windstone.
» Yeah, we really only meet here like in the winter. And we have meeting minutes
and I think we're happy to record it when we're here, but I think the park
committee being in the parks is very important
» and Gerald records the minutes at every meeting. And we don't
» I I've just I mean having been on it for 5 years, I don't think you're missing
anything. >> Oh, [laughter] I'm missing something.
» I understand that we go that our committee goes to parks and wants to
review maintenance or potential improvements. That makes a lot of sense.
But I don't know if you're meeting at a park in a
pavilion or whatever, you can certainly come back and meet here or
decisions of spending money or proposals could be then tabled to the next meeting
when you're in chambers. We, you know, the logistics of of the
park. I understand that that's not something that I have to worry about
with public works, but that's a logistic issue that you have to work around in
order to communicate. We've heard the word here tonight,
the word transparency, that we want a transparent city. Well,
when it comes to the parks committee, without the minutes, without recording,
without anything, >> we have minutes.
» There are minutes. Sorry. >> Well, I'm just saying I'm not seeing I'm
not seeing the transparency that we have in other committees
» and the public is welcome to every single meeting.
» Well, Greg, if we made that, then we don't really need to record public works
either. They're welcome to every meeting. I mean, the meetings are open
to everybody, >> not public works because they're not
held in person. >> So, it would be impossible. And we could
switch that, >> of course.
» How about if at all possible, Mr. Brown, would this be possible when you have a
meeting here in the wintertime, you offer it to Zoom to anyone and then when
you go out in the field at parks or the pool advisory or whatever that you just
say that in the meeting, say we're being excused now to go look at this park or
that park or whatever. And I mean I I was on parks for what 24 years and I
mean we were always out in the field looking at things. Mhm.
» We would maybe discuss things first and then go out or else go out when the
light was still the sun was still out and then come back here and discuss
things. But I don't know how you'd run the Zoom.
Um >> how can you not
» because well with everyone talking how would
they all have their microphones and everything?
» I mean I I think we could do this. I could record it at a park. I mean I
don't know about Zoom. I mean, I could record it and then
» again, I don't know our system. If I could put a recording on there from what
takes place, um the business that we have like in a shelter,
I'm guessing. >> Also wondering how much you're going to
be able to hear people because often, you know,
» yeah, they're not each going to have a microphone like this.
» We've got nine microphones here and there's nine people on parks and Gerald
could use that microphone. I think we I and I I think we can do better. And for
instance, one of the things I wanted to see was the you know, we had a
stakeholders meeting and that was the the parks committee met to review the
parks master plan. So I went to listen to the minutes and they they weren't
there. I read the minutes and the minutes said that Gary C um I'm sorry,
Mr. Dunl appeared and made a presentation. it doesn't reflect any
discussion that was made or questions or you know and I think that that would
have been helpful for me to understand. So my motion stands.
[snorts] >> Okay. And you have um Alderman Akens who
attend who's on parks and she can probably answer any question that you
want to know from the parks meeting. >> Yes.
and she's on the steering committee. So, >> believe it or not, I listen to a lot of
recordings and and I can't listen to any of those
and that is last year it was 42% of our budget.
» I would second the motion. >> Okay, you're seconding the motion for
Can we repeat the motion? Oh, >> are you
» from what we're voting for? >> You're taking people out of the parks.
Do you realize that? I just >> No, I'm What I'm What I'm proposing
» roll call and people can vote no or vote yes.
» Yeah. >> I'm proposing that the parks committee
record and give detailed minutes of their meetings
moving forward. And I think if that means that you have to
we don't have a big city. If you have to go to a park and then come here to
actually have your meeting, I don't think that is a big
problem. Is it
» our part of our meeting >> from the point of view of people that
have been serving on it that have that meet at parks and walk through them
rather than meet here, hold a meeting, now leave, go to a park. Do we adjourn
the meeting? Do we have to come back to adjourn? I just I think you guys
» part of our meeting >> a logistical problem overburdensome and
you're going to find people don't want to serve if they have to keep coming
here instead of being in the parks. So you're going to probably lose some
committee members. It would be my guess. >> And the meeting continues when we're at
the park, right? We're walking around. We're looking at things. So it doesn't
just end >> not adjourn and then go continue to
conduct business elsewhere. Alderman
Fernandez, >> I just have a logistical legal question.
So, is it a requirement of the committees to be recorded or to be or
open to the public like every other >> requirement to have minutes post an
agenda? It is not a requirement to be recorded.
» I just thought it was a good practice of transparency.
» Me, too. >> So, how many of us have actually read
the master plan that we approved? Have we all read it? And were there
questions still that needed to be answered that we now need to think about
over the next couple of years? I mean, like our art committee, we have
anyone's welcome to come. We have the minutes written down, but there's a lot
of discussion that I don't even know how you would put it down and just let
people hear because a lot of it is and >> and that's what we record.
» Okay.
All right, >> we have a motion and a second. We have a
motion and a second. Do you all understand what you're voting on or do
you want the motion read?
» Well, I think Alderman Dos's interpretation and Alderman Freriedman's
interpretation are I'm not clear as to which one I I would
be voting on. >> Okay. So, could we have the motion read
again, Mrs. Stone. >> Uh, the motion that I wrote down was
» use your microphone, please.
» Available via Zoom. That's what I >> All right. Is that the second?
» No. No, >> that that was not the motion.
» Okay. So the motion was to for their meetings to be in chambers or in
chambers or in the meeting place available via Zoom and with the
recording posted on on the website as the other committee [clears throat]
meetings the the other committee recordings are posted.
» Yes. >> Is that the um motion? That's my
understanding as well. >> And you're going to second that. I
second that. >> So a motion was made by Alderman
Friedman, seconded by Alderman Doss. >> Do we want to do a roll call vote? Let's
do a roll call vote. Mrs. Stone, please.
» Nay. [clears throat]
» Nay.
Nay. >> Alderman.
» Hi. >> Alderman Friedman.
» I [snorts] also
» Okay. Motion fails. All right. Any other items under general
discussion? >> Alderman Fernandez.
» This is Thank you, Madam Probably out of order. Um, knowing that that did not
pass, I would ask though that the committee does a much deeper thorough
job on the minutes potentially if that's been an issue where we can't discern
some of the information and especially like presentations and any of the
dialogue. >> Yes, I I can cover that.
» The past I mean Gerald gets the minutes out the next morning, right? So, they're
fresh, they're concise, and they're spot on.
» I've never read them, so I don't that should not be an indictment uh at all.
So, but if if that were an issue or has been an issue, I would like to see that.
» Yeah. and I >> the next day and he asked if there's any
correction corrections or additions. So al all
» I'll just add when we do meet here I am in favor of recording when we can. I
just don't want to take the parks committee out out of the parks
» and I will add I mean we have had zoom for several of the meetings over the
last couple of years. I I mean I know that but I don't know what the special
occasion was why we used it but there were times whether it was the park
master plan which obviously it wasn't cuz Kathy would have known but I know
we've had some. So that's the case. May I make a motion
that any um parks meetings that are held um indoors be available via Zoom and
recorded and with the recording posted on the city website.
» That could work. >> Can we be specific to here in the
chamber? We do meet other places that are indoors that might not you might not
be able to hear us where we don't have microphones
» and we we always record our minutes. Those can be how do you how do you
handle that when it's not verbal? It's just written. So what do we do? How do
we place that in the public's hands >> on the website?
» Posted on the website. >> So those can be posted
» and that's the way they're always >> there. any questions that come up at the
next meeting then we can rectify it in some way
» because we always have we always um do written minutes there's always someone
taking minutes >> so are the meetings that are held
indoors can they be held somewhere where we have the zoom capability and or are
there locations that you go to >> this is the only room that we have the
zoom room within um the public works committee. We typically use a laptop
which isn't great but we make it work. But this is the only room that has that
Zoom room capability. >> What are we doing for finance?
» Finance. I'm sorry. Did I say public works? We're always I apologize. Finance
is when we're in the public works. That's why we're in the public works um
conference room and that's where we use a laptop which again not not great and I
know sometimes the the sound isn't great but we make it work. Um, we don't have
that capability in other spaces.
» Did you make a motion? >> Did you make it?
» I did. >> Okay, I'll second her. K.
» A motion was made by Alderman Freriedman. Second by Alderman Schwarz.
And do you want to read that motion again so everyone knows what they're
voting on, please? Mrs. Stone
are In chambers. >> All right. Roll call vote.
» That you said in chambers. In chambers. You
» didn't say every place. You just said in chambers.
» When the meetings are held in the chambers, they will be recorded and the
recording will be posted and Zoom accessible.
» Roll call vote, please.
» Alens. I
Davis. >> Hi.
Hi.
» Hi. >> Michael.
» Hi. >> Alman Fre,
» I
» All right. Any other items under general discussion? I'm afraid to look over
here. [laughter]
» I'm kidding. >> No, you're not. That's okay. [laughter]
» Back to my line. >> We all have to have a sense of
» meeting. >> All right. If not, do I have a motion to
» We did this. >> We did.
» Oh, we did that. Never mind. [laughter] >> Amended the agenda.
» It was It was >> They didn't know if we needed to vote on
it. >> It was included in the consent agenda.
» A motion to adjurnn, please. >> I make the motion.
» I'll second. Motion was made by Alderman Donna, seconded by Alderman Wigle. All
in favor of adjournment >> I
» I >> have a great evening. We adjourned at
811.