[0:02] Patricia Friebus, mayor.
>> Ryan Fernandez, alderman Ward One,
[0:07] » present.
>> Natalie Akens, alderman, Ward One,
[0:10] » here.
>> Marie Davis, alderman Ward Two.
[0:12] » Remember to speak into your mic.
Present.
[0:15] » Mark Schwarz, alderman Ward two,
>> here.
[0:18] » Greg Columbo, alderman Ward three,
>> present.
[0:21] » Angie Wel, alderman Ward three,
>> here.
[0:24] » Kathy Freriedman, alderman Ward four,
>> here. Alderman Ward four here. Britney
[0:30] Gillette, city administrator,
>> here.
[0:32] » Jeff Tman, director of finance,
>> here.
[0:35] » Mike Knight, director of planning and
public works,
[0:37] » here.
>> Gerald Brown, director of parks and
[0:40] recreation,
>> here.
[0:41] » Steven Dodge, chief of police,
>> here.
[0:43] » Aaron Cely, city attorney,
>> here.
[0:46] » Thank you.
>> Thank you, Mrs. uh Stone. Next item is
[0:49] approval of the agenda. Um, we need to
amend it for the motion to add prestige
[0:54] pools, but Mrs. Celely would like to
make a comment.
[0:57] » Yes. I just wanted to say for the record
that this did come in late. It is an
[1:01] event that we have numerous years. So it
is nothing new. Um however the event
[1:06] does occur before the next meeting and
therefore as long as you are comfortable
[1:11] we would find good cause to amend the
agenda because of the fact that it did
[1:14] come in late. We are not able to provide
the 24 hours notice yet the event will
[1:19] occur before you're able to have a
meeting. Um, so a motion to amend the
[1:23] agenda would include that good cause
finding for less than 24 hours notice.
[1:28] » I do have a motion to amend the agenda.
Alderman Davis,
[1:31] » I'll move since she's in my ward. You're
in my ward.
[1:36] » You have a second.
>> I'll second then.
[1:39] » Uh, Alderman Davis made a motion was
seconded by Alderman Schwarz. All in
[1:44] favor of approval of the agenda with the
amendment.
[1:52] Motion passed as amended.
Next item is a consent agenda. Bills to
[1:58] be approved. Do I have a motion, please?
>> I'll make a motion.
[2:04] » Second.
>> Motion was made by Alderman Atkins,
[2:08] seconded by Alderman Davis. All in
favor?
[2:12] » I
>> Madame Mayor, did we miss the minutes or
[2:16] did I skip?
>> [laughter]
[2:17] » I think I crossed them off before we
Thank you for bringing that to my
[2:21] attention.
[2:24] » Uh, do I have a motion for the approval
of the minutes of the July 14th, 2026
[2:29] regular meeting and the July 29th, 2026
special session meeting?
[2:35] » I'll make a motion.
>> Second.
[2:39] » Motion was made to approve the minutes
from Alderman Wiggle and seconded by
[2:44] Alderman Akens. All in favor?
Thank you for bringing that to my
[2:49] attention. The consent agenda also
passed. Next,
[2:55] public hearings. The board will consider
and discuss a request to amend the text
[3:00] of several sections of the city of
Sunset Hills unified development
[3:04] ordinance relating to recreational uses.
[3:10] Anyone from the audience that would like
to come forward?
[3:13] Mike. Yes.
[3:19] Sorry, I was just getting the clicker
ready here.
[3:22] » Thought you were hiding under there. No.
[laughter]
[3:24] » So, we have uh two public hearings
tonight. The first one is a text
[3:29] amendment for the city and it's
regarding recreational uses.
[3:34] So, a little background, there was the
discussion uh at the board um regarding
[3:39] recreational uses in industrial areas
and we were specifically talking about
[3:44] at that time indoor athletic training
facilities. We were talking about how
[3:48] these recreational facilities were
grouped together and maybe there's a
[3:53] potential text amendment to better
understand these and how they relate
[3:56] into our code. Um the issue that was in
front of us is we had a use that was
[4:02] permitted in our code that said health,
athletic, recreation, amusement
[4:06] facilities, and indoor. And although it
was a use, it wasn't defined. So when we
[4:11] regulate zoning, when we have permitted
uses, we want a definition. So when
[4:14] these nuance different community members
come in, we know exactly, you know, what
[4:19] that use is or how we define it. We also
had something called recreation uses
[4:24] that was permitted, but it was only
permitted in parks and conditional and
[4:28] residential areas. It wasn't defined. It
almost sound like it was a community
[4:33] pool or tennis court or something like
that. It didn't really seem applicable
[4:36] here. Didn't make much sense. Actually,
we also had some definitions in our code
[4:40] that didn't have uses. And a lot of
these were kind of built part of that
[4:43] other use. said talked about recreation
facilities indoor. Um where the the
[4:48] trampolines and the indoor driving
ranges, um amusement center indoors
[4:53] where they were talking about coin
operated game video game machines, more
[4:57] of a classic arcade and then a health
facility indoor and that was called kind
[5:02] of a health club and at minimum these
definitions need to be revamped with
[5:06] current language uh today and um looked
into.
[5:12] So staff looked at uh what we have
today, looked at the different uses and
[5:16] say how are they most appropriate in
today and what we see out in these
[5:22] different areas, where do they match
zoning wise? Um the first conversation
[5:26] we had was the athletic training
facility indoor, the one we talked about
[5:30] in depth where these youth sports often
have these training specific areas. Um
[5:36] sometimes they're in industrial areas.
We talked at the board level. Um, so we
[5:41] defined it as athletic training indoor,
made it permitted in both the commercial
[5:46] and industrial
zoning districts. Um, also put a parking
[5:53] uh, minimum standard in there that we
have with all of our uses. Did the five
[5:57] per thousand, I think it says one per
200 gross floor area. I say five per
[6:01] thousand. It's a pretty standard
commercial industrial minimum parking
[6:05] standard that you'll see. We also even
talked about at the board level and and
[6:10] internally that athletic training indoor
is not one of these larger sports
[6:15] complexes. It's not Scott Gallagher.
It's not. So we purposfully define these
[6:21] larger more competition
um where everybody comes and watches
[6:26] spectator uh use and said specifically
the athletic training facility indoor in
[6:32] that definition is not a sports complex
indoor and outdoor. and then define the
[6:37] sports complex and did not make it
permitted in any of our zoning
[6:41] districts.
Then we have those other three we talked
[6:44] about. So we have one called fitness
center and health club. It's a permitted
[6:48] use in commercial. Think your gyms, your
Planet Fitnesses that you see in these
[6:52] commercial areas with the five uh per
thousand
[6:57] uh parking. And then we had the
recreational facilities indoor and
[7:02] talked about um you know this is your
indoor arcade bowling whether you're
[7:06] urban air or your main event or your
bowling mostly always in commercial
[7:11] permitted in commercial districts. Um
and then we [clears throat] also defined
[7:15] movement center outdoor. Now these
aren't necessarily always on large
[7:19] tracks of land but they are outdoor. Um
think of your mini golf or your batting
[7:24] cage maybe we'll call it swing around
funtown something like that that you
[7:27] see. Um, so we didn't make it permitted
by right, but since it's outdoor, made
[7:31] it conditional in the commercial
districts. Um, and then I used one space
[7:37] per 500. That's just a little research
when I looked at there's not a lot of
[7:40] these. Look out there. That seemed to be
a common metric for our parking knowing
[7:44] that if anybody did come in, they would
have that plan development p permit
[7:47] process that we have.
So what we did, there was one
[7:52] recreational use classification that was
combined. It didn't define the athletic
[7:56] portion of it for sure and it was only
permitted in the commercial districts.
[8:00] So, we had also a use called recreation
facilities that was only conditional in
[8:04] single family residential areas and it
just didn't make much sense. Um, so we
[8:09] created the five distinct recreational
facility uses that we mentioned, applied
[8:14] the applicable zoning districts that we
felt were most appropriate, provided a
[8:17] parking standard to them, um, removed
that recreation use that didn't seem to
[8:23] make sense or that we use applicably in
these subdivisions.
[8:27] Um, this was part of it's a text
amendment, so it went to the planning
[8:30] and zoning commission. They are your
recommending body for all land use and
[8:33] zoning decisions. Um they recommended
approval unanimously as it was
[8:38] submitted. Importantly, tonight the
distinguished night is a public hearing.
[8:42] So this is an opportunity for staff to
describe the ordinance amendment and
[8:46] really receive feedback. Receive
feedback from the board, receive
[8:49] feedback from the members of community,
whether they're, you know, here tonight
[8:52] or in the future. Um and and no action
is scheduled for tonight. This is
[8:57] strictly on for a public hearing. Closes
my presentation and of course I can
[9:02] answer any questions. I said I was going
to receive feedback, but I left my
[9:04] notepad. So, I'm going to grab that.
>> Any questions?
[9:08] » Alderman Columbo,
>> how would you define the VETA bubble?
[9:13] » Alderman Columbo,
>> how would you define the the VETA bubble
[9:19] under which category? I'm just curious.
>> Right.
[9:22] » It's not a sports complex because it has
multiple tennis courts.
[9:25] » Yeah. So, I would say no. Good. I never
looked specifically into their
[9:29] operation. And I know we've talked about
it from my understanding of their
[9:33] operation or being there. This is one
and more of those indoor training
[9:36] facilities and not use events. Now I
could have new information and find out
[9:40] that they have massive tournaments or
something like that. Again, they're
[9:43] existing condition as they are right
now. Um, so no change, but the best of
[9:48] my knowledge, it's an indoor training
facility, but without reaching out or
[9:52] understanding really their operation, I
have to put that caveat in there.
[9:55] » Secondly, the the parking.
>> Mhm. It seems overly restrictive at one
[10:01] per 200. And and I'll give some examples
because I believe Veta currently is
[10:05] 45,000 to 50,000 square feet total
between the two bubbles in the building.
[10:11] They have 60 spots on hand.
>> So that's like a one per 700ish average.
[10:18] Spirit Gymnastics, Crossgra Boy, they
lease 14,000 square feet of that 34,000
[10:24] foot building. He has 27 spots for them
on one side of the building and then the
[10:30] remainder of that building has 15 on the
other side for his industrial uses and
[10:34] there's 15 spots around back.
>> So again, you're into like a one per 450
[10:41] area. Um,
and I could go on. I the very other
[10:46] examples here of all American Big Bendon
44. That's another
[10:52] » Yeah. 40 something 50,000 square foot
facility. They're about one per 400
[10:58] under parking. Bud Dome I was just
talking to somebody about is an 80,000
[11:02] square foot place, one per 4 to 500. Um,
uh, Powerhouse is another one where you
[11:11] know all of these places and these are
mostly places that are holding events
[11:16] too, not just training facilities. So,
they're way advanced. And I guess my
[11:21] point is in Sunset Hills, we're not
getting complaints about parking at
[11:24] Spirit Gymnastics. We're not getting
complaints about parking at Veta yet.
[11:28] We're coming at one per 200, which
great. Now, we've authorized a use, but
[11:34] it's so overly restrictive that we may
never be able to utilize that use
[11:39] because the parking is too restrictive.
So,
[11:41] » sure.
>> Just thoughts.
[11:43] » Five per thousand is typically like kind
of a lower parking minimum. I'm not a
[11:47] firm believer that, you know,
I I you you clearly looked at all these
[11:52] places and all these things, you know
what I mean? So, I'm not like debating.
[11:55] I would just say from a overall
perspective, five per thousand isn't a
[11:59] high from what I've known, but
>> correct. It's that and that's my point.
[12:03] Powerhouse 45,000 ft, 113 spots, one
>> and a lot of these I just think uh
[12:08] important comment is it's the mixture of
uses within these buildings, right? So,
[12:12] you you look at the other uses. So they
may designate X amount of spaces for
[12:17] these uses, but if they're mixed, maybe
they're lower in other ones. You you
[12:21] look at the building as a whole, right?
You take each use, you say what the
[12:24] requirements are, you see what the
>> parking but I guess my point is most of
[12:29] these places get more use than an
athletic training facility will ever
[12:33] get, right? Because they're hosting
competitions. They're hosting multiple
[12:38] practices and a competition. So, I I if
when it comes to time for this ordinance
[12:45] to come up, I I think I'm going to make
a motion to amend to be a little less
[12:48] restrictive so that we can actually
utilize some of those places versus
[12:52] having something that's allowed but will
no longer be practical to use. And I
[12:57] would say part of the public hearing
process is to gather feedback and
[13:01] understand. So, I think, you know, I'll
do the same. I'll look into it, see what
[13:04] I can find on these nuanced areas and
come with that information.
[13:08] » Yeah. Any other questions from the
board?
[13:12] » Yes,
>> Alderman Schwarz. Um,
[13:14] » yes. I'm not quite as good as Alderman
Columbo is with Google Earth, but uh so
[13:20] I'm just going to go back and I'm going
to I'm going to echo his his sentiment
[13:24] and I think that
one to 200 puts them on par with
[13:30] municipal buildings, trade schools,
vocational schools, college and
[13:36] universities.
And I don't think that the property that
[13:41] we're talking about is consistent with
those three that I just cited.
[13:49] » Sure.
>> Alderman Doss.
[13:52] » Um I heard a lot of wisdom from the
other side of the table. So my question
[13:57] to you, Michael, is PNZ passed this
unanimously. Was this parking issue
[14:03] discussed in PNZ at all to your
recollection?
[14:06] » No.
Not much conversation, just a lot of
[14:09] nodding of heads of the split of uses,
not not a lot of dialogue overall.
[14:16] » Thank you,
>> Alderman Freriedman.
[14:19] » Um,
I'm just wondering why athletic
[14:23] » microphone microphone.
>> Yes, I'm sorry.
[14:27] » My apologies. Um, athletic training
facilities indoor is permitted in
[14:33] LCGCLI,
which which I think is fine. Um, fitness
[14:39] center health and amusement center
outdoor
[14:43] are only in commercial but not LI. Is
there a reason for that?
[14:48] » They just seem much more like commercial
operations where much more people go in
[14:51] and out. That seemed more commercial
than industrial despite this use.
[14:56] Usually work for a day. You don't see
that in and out like you see in these
[14:59] commercial areas
>> and
[15:04] sports complex indoor or outdoor is not
permitted in any is that so
[15:14] » we we say that we don't think that's
appropriate anywhere in the city
[15:19] » exactly and I think it's a perfect
format for this discussion right now
[15:22] unless you see that different it was
more defining the two and saying that
[15:26] the athletic indoor is not a sports
facility indoor. I'm not aware of like
[15:31] our comprehensive plan or or some sort
of guiding document that said these
[15:35] large facilities would be in these
certain areas. We're largely a built
[15:39] environment. These typically are larger,
but that's a perfect opportunity right
[15:42] now unless we, you know, we see this as
being appropriate somewhere.
[15:47] » Yeah. So, I mean, I look at our driving
range and I think we've got some
[15:52] instructional
there
[15:56] and that I mean, so doesn't that make it
a sports complex,
[16:02] indoor, outdoor with training areas?
>> I would say with all our parks, we
[16:06] consider them our parks. We usually
don't zone them into like commercial
[16:09] designations.
>> Is there a reason why that isn't why we
[16:12] it's not permitted in parks and open
spaces? And
[16:16] » yeah, looking at this and Mike and I
talked about this a lot. The I think the
[16:21] crux of these um sports complexes is
that they are there to generate
[16:25] spectators and that's listed in the
definition where these are you're trying
[16:29] to get a lot of people there. So you see
these giant volleyball uh you know
[16:34] complexes where there's 30, 40, 50
courts and they're all operating on one
[16:39] day at the same time and it's the intent
is to draw people in there. In looking
[16:45] at the city of Sunset Hills, I'm not
sure where we would fit something of
[16:49] that size. When you look at the actual
complex and then the parking that is
[16:52] required and is never enough at those
types of facilities. Um, and to Mike's
[16:57] point, we can continue to talk about
this. If if the board disagrees, we're
[17:01] certainly open to that conversation, but
just looking at the city of Sunset
[17:04] Hills, where we're located, our current
open space for development, I'm not sure
[17:09] where that would ever fit. And we
certainly wanted to pull out these
[17:13] recreational or athletic training
facilities from that because they are
[17:17] truthfully operating under two different
very modes.
[17:20] » Okay. And there's no problem with our
parks department doing that, but we tell
[17:26] other people they can't.
>> There's not a legal problem. They are
[17:31] they're designated as parks and open
space and they operate under the
[17:34] municipal park operations.
>> Okay. Well, I just I I mean when we've
[17:39] so
I don't know how closely the other
[17:44] aldermen have looked at this, but when
you've got sports complex indoor or
[17:47] outdoor as a use and there's no little
P's or C's across the little grid, that
[17:54] means uh-uh. So,
>> correct.
[17:58] » Yeah.
>> And and that was certainly the
[17:59] intention. Again, we're we're open to
conversation. Um, but that was the
[18:03] intention was to leave those defined and
then not allow them or not permit them.
[18:07] » And may I just ask when when this comes
up, can we put the the use chart? I had
[18:13] to write my own little notes about what
>> district it was in. The use chart
[18:19] doesn't show it in the ordinance.
>> So that would just be helpful
[18:23] » in the draft ordinance. Yeah. Like a
supplementary exhibit
[18:25] » out a little. It's because we just
pulled that and it's but it would still
[18:30] be
>> I we understand And I can even make it a
[18:32] supplementary chart exhibit. Yeah.
>> Thank you,
[18:37] » Alderman Columbbo.
>> Alderman Freeman, I you know, since I
[18:40] kind of brought this to the
>> microphone,
[18:42] » I just want to say I was purposeful and
not trying to lump sports complexes in
[18:47] because I'm a user of those and I
realize how much traffic they generate
[18:53] and I just thought, hey, let's just keep
it simple for now, you know, and and
[18:57] address what
>> Yeah. the existing non-conforming uses
[19:01] were rather than bring in new uses. So,
>> and I tend to favor that approach. I
[19:07] just wanted go through the exercise.
Thank you,
[19:11] » Alderman Fernandez.
>> Thanks, Madam Mayor. Um, Mr. N. I just
[19:14] want to confirm um I have two separate
questions. One is any of this how it
[19:18] relates to we do have an approval
obviously for the bombers activity down
[19:21] at Bander Park and a park. So, is that
the pure distinction there on why that
[19:27] is different? It's operating through our
lease, right?
[19:30] » It is operating through a lease. Um the
use obviously just like any other change
[19:36] to our UDO, the the existing items are
grandfathered in. So any any change to
[19:40] this won't impact existing facilities or
um sports complex operations.
[19:45] » Great. Thank you. And then second one
very different. Um the thing about the
[19:48] residential areas, obviously since the
UDO went in, pickle ball became a rage.
[19:53] How would that apply if a subdivision
wouldn't put in a pickle ball court or
[19:56] anything else like that this time?
>> Those are typical and I say most cities
[20:00] just passive amenities.
>> Alderman Fernandez, I didn't hear the
[20:03] question. So, do you mind repeating?
>> Absolutely. I'm sorry.
[20:07] » I'm I'm going talk right into this
thing. [laughter]
[20:11] » Uh since the UDO went in as pickle balls
obviously skyrocketed other paddle
[20:15] sports, I was just curious how that
would apply that one provision around
[20:18] residential areas. So, I'd say like um
most cities, if you have amenities that
[20:23] are in common ground that are used for
your subdivision, they're just common
[20:28] ground. You get a building permit for
something like that. They don't have a
[20:30] separate use designation because they're
not really a commercial enterprise in
[20:34] those subdivisions.
>> Okay. Not advocating for more of those,
[20:38] but yeah. Thank you.
>> Any other questions from the board?
[20:44] All right. Would anyone from the
audience uh have any comments? Mr.
[20:48] better. Do you want to add anything?
No. Okay. Anyone else in the audience
[20:54] that would like to comment in the public
hearing?
[20:57] All right.
>> Thank you very much. Now, close this
[21:01] public hearing [clears throat]
>> and we're going to open the next one.
[21:06] The board will consider and discuss a
request to amend the text of several
[21:10] sections of the city of Sunset Hills
unified development ordinance relating
[21:15] to senior living uses. Mr. Knight.
>> Yep. This one is known as PO7 2026
[21:23] um regarding the senior living uses. Uh
so just take a step back like we did
[21:28] with the last one, you know, why make
the amendments. So, uh, we talked about
[21:33] at the board before Friendship Village
acquired some property next to their
[21:37] existing site directly to the east
called the Delta Dental Building. Um,
[21:41] and they were also acquiring the
commuter lot right next to that Delta
[21:45] Dental Building. Um, and what we found
is that there's no clear path for
[21:52] expansion as the senior living uses, the
plan retirement care, they're not
[21:56] permitted in our current UDO. Um, I'm
not aware of that intentionally being
[22:02] removed from the UDO, meaning I haven't
heard conversations of saying let's keep
[22:05] it out, but that's it's omitted. It's
it's just like Alderman Freeman said,
[22:10] there's no P on those uses um existing
in our code. Um, and we do know we do
[22:15] have existing senior living facilities.
So, that could happen not just there.
[22:19] Again, I brought kind of how we got
here, but this is other senior living
[22:22] facilities too. Use not user.
So, I was going to give you one slide to
[22:27] describe this. I would say that what
this text amendment does is it creates
[22:32] an SL senior living district um broadly
permitting the senior living uses um
[22:38] verse making them permitted in existing
districts. At first when I was looking
[22:42] that I was think well maybe these would
be most appropriate in commercial
[22:45] districts being permitted but went with
creating a new district specifically for
[22:50] senior living. Um it requires senior
living to go through the plan
[22:54] development permit process. So as we
know all of the developments that come
[22:57] through the UDO outline that process for
commercial office industrial and this
[23:02] would follow that same anything but
single family development process. Um it
[23:08] permits plan retirement care centers
that is how friendship village was
[23:11] defined in the old uh zoning code. Um
also assisted living facilities and
[23:17] nursing homes. Those are the uses that
are in our current code just not
[23:21] permitted. It establishes a 5A per
minimum. So a minimum lot size uh for
[23:26] the senior living facilities. Um it
limits density to 11 residential
[23:32] accommodations or units per acre. Um it
adds an open space requirement and a
[23:37] residential uh parking setback
requirement. So not just building but
[23:41] the parking setbacks would apply too. Um
and establishes a parking formula uh for
[23:47] the planned retirement care centers
because those other two uses that were
[23:50] permitted had a parking formula. So just
to walk through briefly again a new use
[23:57] is added. So we have our 12 existing
districts. This would add senior living.
[24:02] Um we have the district regulations. So
this is where we state the 5 acre lot
[24:06] minimum um lot width and setbacks versus
maybe the commercial that has the 10
[24:12] 20,000 foot lot minimums. [snorts]
Um it adds the plan planned retirement
[24:17] care center back into our code. Again,
that's one was defined in our old code
[24:21] that Friendship Village was under. Put
it back in under permitted only in those
[24:25] senior living district. Um, put the
parking in uh the existing parking one
[24:32] per three beds. I'll say that is pretty
common among facilities. Um, but the
[24:36] plan retirement care that's more we'll
get to the definition a mixture of
[24:40] retirement from independent to senior to
assisted. Um and you'll see and so it
[24:46] said one space per dwelling unit and one
space per three beds knowing that these
[24:50] developments would go through that plan
development process right and outline
[24:54] their parking. [snorts] It also has a
use provision and the use provision
[24:59] talks about these kind of those
additional standards that we put on some
[25:03] uses like a car wash something specific
and it says all the uses would have the
[25:07] density would also have an open space
requirement of 50% and it would have uh
[25:12] parking setbacks uh no closer than any
30 ft.
[25:18] This is where we put it in the plan
development process. We would add senior
[25:22] living. These are the definitions. there
in your packet. But again, it defines
[25:26] assisted living and nursing home the
same, but brings that planned retirement
[25:29] care center uh definition that was in
our previous zoning code back into this
[25:34] code.
[25:38] So,
um currently senior living the
[25:42] regulations, they're not permitted in
any of our current districts. We know
[25:45] that. Um regardless, all of these senior
living facilities may continue to
[25:49] operate today under their current
entitlements. it's only when they look
[25:52] to expand significant change when they
would need a site development allowance
[25:57] something like that they'd be required
to go into a new district um this
[26:00] creates a separate zoning district
remember at first I was thinking is it
[26:03] permitted in another one this creates
its own district um plan development
[26:07] process will remain this adds density
open space and those are largely based
[26:12] off friendship village I didn't do a lot
of research on new but really the
[26:15] accommodations of the existing facility
when I was looking at density and open
[26:19] space that's where I got those numbers
Um at PNZ there was a robust discussion
[26:24] about this just from lot sizes to um
where they would be how it would work.
[26:30] We had a pretty healthy um discussion.
Uh they did recommend to approve
[26:35] unanimously there. They did have a
couple recommendations that are in your
[26:39] packet right there that you see again
the public hearing. This is why we're
[26:43] here today especially for the public.
It's for me to receive feedback from
[26:46] you. Understand the ordinance amendment
that I put in front. receive feedback
[26:50] from of course the board, the general
public. No actions scheduled tonight,
[26:55] but what are your thoughts and concerns?
This one? Yeah, that concludes my
[27:00] presentation and I can answer any
questions.
[27:02] » Any questions from the board? Alderman
Freriedman?
[27:06] » I think it's interesting.
>> I'm sorry,
[27:10] » Mr. Harding. I think it's interesting
that we are looking at this approach
[27:17] after we just went through a very
abbreviated and I think proper way to
[27:23] handle you know we we've got an issue
with training indoor training centers
[27:29] » and we're not setting up an athletic
zone because we don't have a
[27:36] comprehensive athletic zone. Mhm.
[clears throat]
[27:39] » We could just as easily and I think more
conservatively and more properly
[27:45] address the the friendship village issue
and any other
[27:54] homes um rehab centers,
assisted living facilities by putting
[28:02] little P's and C's in our use chart. Um,
you know, I've I've spoken to um Mr.
[28:10] Knight about this and he said his
initial concern was that,
[28:16] you know, if you
if you made it available in uh
[28:22] commercial districts
that any commercial district could have
[28:27] a senior living um you know the this is
our map, our zoning map. I don't think
[28:35] we ever even look at it. The thing that
I think jumps out at you is yellow.
[28:40] There's a bunch of yellow, light yellow
and dark yellow. That's res. That's R1
[28:46] and R2. That's the bulk of our our city.
And when you look at
[28:55] commercial and
commercial, it's the red and the pink
[29:01] kind of in high
traffic areas, I guess, you know, not in
[29:06] the middle of residential.
And I I think, you know, planned
[29:12] retirement center, nursing home,
assisted living, those are all
[29:15] commercial enterprises, and I think they
properly belong in commercial
[29:20] enterprises. I agree that, you know, we
should probably tighten up the um the
[29:26] definitions. Um but I think that is a
more conservative and a better approach.
[29:31] And Mr. night has told me that that was
his initial thoughts about this and um I
[29:40] think his um initial instincts were the
right ones. So,
[29:47] you know, I'm happy to to hear others
thoughts, but
[29:52] » can I
>> Alderman Davis?
[29:55] » Um, isn't French village a religiously
based um run company nonprofit
[30:02] » and the same thing with the one that is
next to Lommire uh the Christian I don't
[30:08] know what
>> Peace Haven.
[30:09] » Okay, so those are both religiously run.
How does that affect all of this?
[30:14] » From a use perspective, it wouldn't. You
know, they could sell today to something
[30:18] different. I'm sure there's other
implications for these, but from the use
[30:21] operating of an assisted living nursing
home
[30:25] » despite ownership. Yeah. Again, there
might be other ramifications of having
[30:28] that, but not from a zoning regulation.
>> Okay.
[30:32] » Alderman Columbo.
>> Yeah. I [clears throat] think about it
[30:36] kind of like that because if you look at
like a peace haven, it's scattered out
[30:39] amongst the residential district.
condos at Lomire Place or in a
[30:44] residential district. The is it Kindred
Senior Center next to that in a
[30:50] residential area.
>> I mean, these all seem to fit very well
[30:54] throughout our community. I don't I I I
personally like the senior living zoning
[30:59] designation because these things are a
benefit for to our community. It's nice
[31:03] to have them spread out around versus
just all stuck in one particular area.
[31:08] And I I mean I think Friendship Village
is just a perfect example of a well-run
[31:13] facility that that really blends into
our, you know, our our city. So
[31:19] » I think we're very blessed to have a lot
of choices in our community to stay in
[31:22] Sunset Hills as we age.
Well, and I would add to that the
[31:27] courtyards and Sunset Grove being two
places that are in such high demand to
[31:32] get into that unless you're willing to
really pay over ask, you're you can't
[31:37] touch those. So, all of those places I
think have benefited Sunset Hills and
[31:41] brought some diversity amongst the the
senior crowd. And so, yeah, I'm really
[31:47] in favor of this.
>> Mr. Knight, I say I can expand a little
[31:52] bit because I think Alderman Freeman
said it well, but just again
[31:54] I think they absolutely can be in
commercial districts. I think you can
[31:57] put permitted and and I think a lot of
cities do operate that way, especially
[32:00] if you have a downtown area and you have
all these different things. My thought
[32:04] process was just like we we talked
about, you know, the seventh amended
[32:09] plan reusing these areas and if we're
saying you are now a commercial zoning
[32:14] district which has all these P's and
things as re reuse, are we looking at
[32:19] these areas as commercial areas or we
envisioning them? Are we really just
[32:24] talking about senior living? And that's
how I went. I think it could operate in
[32:29] both, but let's say we'll just not use
French village the across the street
[32:34] chest rehab. You know, let's say they
take down the house that requires
[32:38] reszoning. They're commercial now. They
have all these different permits. Yes,
[32:41] they still need a plan. Yes, they still
need further approvals, but you are
[32:45] saying as a city, this is a commercial
area. Now, yes, we have to meet your
[32:50] requirements, but all of the other
permitted uses you're telling me that
[32:54] are permitted here as long as you have
meet the code and those plans. That's
[32:59] how my thought process were 100% right.
I did start with permitted. I think it
[33:03] works either way, but that's where my
thought process went is as you start
[33:09] calling these local commercial or
general commercial and they change reuse
[33:13] over time, are we considering these
commercial now? on what would that do?
[33:19] » Any other questions or comments from the
board? Alderman Akens.
[33:23] » Thank you, Madame Mayor. Um I think I
heard you say that you use Friendship
[33:27] Village to build the specifications here
on like five plus acres and such, but do
[33:32] the other um facilities, senior living
facilities in Sunset Hills meet those
[33:36] specifications? And are these pretty
standard? Cuz
[33:40] » yeah, these can go across the board
depending on your community in terms of
[33:44] standardization. Originally I add three
because I want to say there's one that's
[33:50] four, five, eight and 50, right? So we
just see the gamut of of how these
[33:54] operate.
Um
[33:58] I I think any of them work I think when
we talk about our existing facilities
[34:02] too when they go through the they can
request a site development allowance
[34:06] when they come in. So if you do have a 3
acre spot and you are requesting some a
[34:11] modest change,
it's up to the board obviously, but it's
[34:15] an existing condition that we've dealt
with before as codes change and adapt
[34:19] where when you look at new facilities,
you're saying, "Hey, this is our set
[34:22] standard." So I think I think it can
operate in any direction. I think five
[34:28] accommodates three of them right now and
that one if there was a change that
[34:35] needed to be made they could request to
say this is the reason why four makes
[34:40] sense for me because I'm in an existing
condition again just if that kind of
[34:44] helps that discussion
>> thank you and then one other thing and I
[34:47] didn't notice it when you went through
this presentation so you might have
[34:50] might have already updated it but in the
materials that were sent out to us we
[34:54] had removed senior housing as a
permitted use,
[34:57] » but on section six in the parking table,
it was still listed as a standalone row.
[35:02] So, just wanted to make you aware.
>> Yeah. Was it taken out of the parking?
[35:10] » So, sorry, I just thought about that.
So, senior housing I don't think was
[35:14] removed from our code. We just didn't
make it permitted and that's why it
[35:18] would stay in the parking because if it
was ever activated, not that we
[35:21] couldn't, but I think that's why that
happened.
[35:24] » That makes sense. Thank you. Mhm.
>> Any other questions from the board?
[35:29] » Freriedman.
>> So,
[35:32] Mr. Knight mentioned that you know if
you've got a commercial district that
[35:37] it's open to anything
friendship village or anybody would come
[35:42] and say I want to operate this business
un and they'd go under section 7 of the
[35:49] UDO to develop a plan development
and part of that plan development is you
[35:56] know we've dealt with them we're going
to do all of these things and there's
[36:01] going to be this much open space and you
know we'll have this much parking and we
[36:07] can't maintain this buffer because it's
just too much and it would be better if
[36:12] it was were smaller. We can make
accommodations
[36:16] and when we issue the the planned
development
[36:23] that does not allow just any old
commercial use in the planned
[36:29] development. the what governs that
planned development is the ordinance.
[36:36] So, it's not like
Friendship Village could put a car wash
[36:42] on the property. And I think Friendship
Village is a wonderful
[36:50] um campus, a wonderful business, um uh a
wonderful place to live. The residents
[36:57] there are, you know,
>> are very happy there. I think it's a
[37:02] model, but it is, you know, 50 acres.
This would be 5 acres. And the reason
[37:11] why we've got Peace Haven at 5 acres is
because Peace Haven was there before the
[37:17] city incorporated.
So, they were grandfathered in. And I
[37:21] think it behooved the city for them to
do the great up upkeep up updating that
[37:27] they did
uh um
[37:32] six years ago, eight years ago. Mhm.
>> And the lawnmire is a matter of, you
[37:38] know, just trying to fix a problem that
went bad that, you know, that was
[37:43] supposed to be condos and the
development
[37:47] was underwater and that got put in. you
know, if we go with senior living, I
[37:52] think to have these, you know, little
pockets of areas that you can string
[37:57] together two or three lots or, you know,
five lots, it
[38:03] I think we all think of Friendship
Village and it's great and it is and we
[38:09] want to help them
expand. I don't think having a senior
[38:15] living district is going to do that. And
you know the section 7 says that
[38:25] once a um
once a plan district is approved or
[38:31] disappro if once a plan district is
approved that the zoning map shall shall
[38:38] be amended to include the district. So
on this zoning map you can see little
[38:44] hash marks. Those hash marks are planned
dis or planned developments. So, it's it
[38:51] I don't see that the city would be
opening itself to any problems if
[38:58] Friendship Village came to the city and
said, "Okay, we've got this Delta Dental
[39:03] building and we want to add it on and
that entails a reasonzoning and then we
[39:10] will go forward with this plan
development." Those things all happen
[39:16] at one time. you know, we'll have
four ordinances on the docket or the
[39:23] agenda
>> that would handle all of them. So, I I
[39:28] just don't see
the need to put, you know, another
[39:34] district on the map. Um
because we because at this point there's
[39:41] a very good
um corporate
[39:48] citizen of Sunset Hills that houses, you
know, a lot of Sunset Hills residences
[39:56] residents very happily. Um, I don't see
that's the reason that's a reason for
[40:02] just expanding another expanding our
code to include another district. Thank
[40:09] you.
>> Thank you, Madame Mayor. So, listening
[40:14] to you, Michael, and to Alderman
[clears throat] Freriedman, here is my
[40:18] question I would go ask one of you to
answer.
[40:22] So,
someone buys
[40:25] 5 acres in an R1 or R2 district.
[40:31] They've combined the property.
Can they under some of these rules that
[40:36] you're showing us tonight
in a residential district that
[40:41] encompasses five acres put this kind of
facility there? It would be no different
[40:46] if there was an LSL district or a
planned commercial district. Anybody can
[40:52] request to zone anywhere. We have a
comprehensive plan that says this is the
[40:57] single family residential areas. This
is, you know, so like that's a guiding
[41:01] document. Um but it whether you went SL
or you went permitted in commercial,
[41:08] it'd be the same conversation. You' just
be requesting a different district. Oh,
[41:12] yeah. You'd have to resone either way.
it would just be which district are you
[41:15] reszoning to.
>> But I think to to Mr. Knight's point
[41:20] earlier, if you do go the commercial
route with the P's and C's across the
[41:24] youth table and that that happens, um,
now you've got you have a commercial
[41:30] zoning in the middle of a residential,
in the middle of a light industrial, in
[41:35] the middle of wherever that ends up
being reszoned. And for today, that use
[41:39] might fit, right? It might be a memory
care facility. That does make sense
[41:42] right outside of a neighborhood where
there was an open 5 acres. But once you
[41:46] have that zoning, that zoning is there.
The plan development to Alderman
[41:50] Freriedman's point does govern what
happens with within that lot. But our
[41:56] use table is going to govern the use.
So, we could not have a store come up
[42:02] and say we want to, you know, purchase
the property that was the existing
[42:05] memory care facility and we want to use
it as a store, which we've got permitted
[42:09] in our commercial districts. We won't be
able to say no because of that use. We
[42:13] could tweak their plan. We could say you
need this many parking spaces, your
[42:16] setbacks are too small. All of those
things are governed by that plan
[42:19] development, but the use is governed by
the use table. So when you start calling
[42:24] things commercial and just plugging in
other uses, we have to remember that in
[42:28] 5, 10, 30 years from now, if that use is
still permitted in a commercial, it it
[42:33] could become that other thing. And
>> this is not an overlay.
[42:39] » The the PD is not an overlay. It becomes
its own district. the the board shall
[42:45] direct
the city administrator
[42:50] to update the zoning map to include that
district.
[42:56] » If it is zoned commercial, the the
permitted uses within the commercial are
[43:00] are permitted.
>> You're saying it's not an over you're
[43:06] saying it is an overlay.
our our plan developments, those plans
[43:11] do operate as an overlay. They do um
you've got your uses within
[43:17] » We had we had um vigorous discussion on
this when we passed the UDO and the
[43:23] decision was it would not be an overlay.
>> I I understand what you're saying. I
[43:27] understand what the code says, but we're
not creating a new zoning district every
[43:31] time a plan development comes in. And
and that's essentially what you're
[43:35] saying. We aren't creating a new
>> The map would beg to differ.
[43:42] I I understand the map. We have a use
table if it's zoned general commercial
[43:47] and there's a PD on top of it that
allows for the Home Depots and the and
[43:50] all those things and the Bass Pro I
think is technically but you're going to
[43:55] have a very hard time denying something
that was reszoned for a memory care
[44:01] facility and now wants to become
something else that is general
[44:04] commercial. you're going to it's going
to be far more difficult than if you
[44:08] create its own zoning district and you
say the only thing allowed in these
[44:12] spots is senior living. You can never
become a Walmart. You can never become a
[44:16] QT. And it's just going to be far more
restrictive that way now and in the
[44:21] future. So if if we made a senior living
district
[44:27] and
[44:31] village fell into the ground,
the only thing that could go there is a
[44:38] nursing home or
>> assuming they reszoned. I don't know
[44:41] what their existing zoning is, but
assuming they did reszone into a senior
[44:44] living, they they redeveloped whatever.
Yes. They fell into the ground. The only
[44:48] thing that can go into that spot without
the board approving a reasonzoning would
[44:51] be a senior living facility within those
uses,
[44:56] [clears throat]
>> which wouldn't be the same if it was
[44:58] commercial with just a permitted use.
[45:04] » Question, Alderman Davis.
So, I have my five acres and I decide
[45:11] that I want to have an apartment
building or I want to have a condo
[45:16] building, but if it's not zone senior
living only, that can happen, right?
[45:22] » No. So,
>> we don't have multif family permit.
[45:25] » So, multif family wouldn't be what we're
talking about. And again, you're it
[45:29] sounds like we're talking about a single
family zone subdivision. There's there's
[45:33] no change that you get entitlements to.
You'd be requesting into a new district,
[45:38] just like you'd be requesting to an LC
if you wanted commercial, SL, senior
[45:42] living, LI if you wanted industrial.
[45:48] Yeah. And again, I just sorry, I do
think it'll work either way. Like I I
[45:54] don't want to act like one way is vastly
different. I think she did a great point
[45:58] just explaining my thought process of
reuse over time and calling it
[46:02] commercial if we're not truly seeing
these areas of commercial. Even though I
[46:06] do know senior living operates as
commercial. That's what I'm saying. I
[46:09] get it. And to echo and I I won't go far
just you do require a plan. That's the
[46:14] plan development. You need to get a plan
approved. It's just if you meet the code
[46:18] requirements and you have a plan and and
that's the zoning district,
[46:22] that's what you're looking at. I will
say too from another perspective of not
[46:26] just future redevelopment of these
senior living facilities but our our
[46:30] commercial districts are are not very
large right we are we are highly
[46:35] residential we're a neighborhood
community the city thrives very well on
[46:38] it but I think it is important you know
for the fiscal responsibility of us in
[46:43] this community is to ensure that we do
protect those those commercial districts
[46:47] that we have and we allow them to
continue operating and to continue
[46:50] bringing in sales tax dollars to the
city so we can continue to be as great
[46:54] as we are. And so keeping that separate
where they and not to be, you know, too
[47:00] abrasive, but they they don't bring in
tax dollars. And so keeping those
[47:03] outside of those districts is going to
protect those existing commercial
[47:06] zonings and make sure that use is
exactly what that's for. And then those
[47:11] can operate, the senior living
facilities can operate in other spaces
[47:14] that are less commercial attractive.
[47:19] » Alderman Davis. So there are two 5 acre
maybe 5 acre plus uh sections across
[47:27] from Thomas Jefferson school um that
right now one is completely it's all
[47:32] trees it's never been developed at all
and one has five houses on it I think so
[47:38] how can that can those be changed to be
senior living um areas or not
[47:44] » the owners could apply for a
reasonzoning if they wished to do that
[47:48] under under this they would meet that 5
acre requirement. Obviously, we'd have
[47:52] to look at their plan. And that's the
thing, too. Now, you're talking about a
[47:55] complete resoning, which is a heftier
process. The board has a lot more
[47:58] authority on saying no to a resoning
than you would on something that's
[48:02] permitted, even if it's conditional. Um,
but to answer your question, anybody
[48:06] could apply and if at that time the
board thought that that was a suitable
[48:10] use for that space, you all would
approve a reszoning and then essentially
[48:14] eventually a plan development.
>> Okay. Thank you. Any other questions
[48:19] from the board?
>> Just a comment if we're going to key and
[48:23] I I think it is appropriate if we're
going to look to Friendship Village as
[48:29] um an inspiration for how we move
forward. You know, that the existing
[48:35] size of that is 50 acres and that's what
makes it such a beautiful campus with so
[48:40] many amenities. Um and it's adding on
another
[48:44] six acres. Um, I think five acres is
woefully small for if you're going to um
[48:53] set up a whole new zoning district.
Thank you.
[48:57] » Any other comments from the board?
Alderman Columbo? I I think I would add
[49:02] that Peace Haven is also a model of how
to upgrade and build and that is on five
[49:06] acres and I I not to say that like Lommy
Place condos and that's not necessarily
[49:12] a senior thing but that's less than a 5
acre piece. I mean so tasteful things
[49:17] can be done on five acre
>> pieces of property that look very nice
[49:22] and blend in with our community.
>> Okay. Anyone from the audience have any
[49:28] comments during our public hearing?
[49:33] Mr. Hardy
[49:41] Frank Hardy 421 Raburn. I have a
hodgepodge just listen to you all a lot
[49:48] of thoughts. Um, I talked to Mike a
little bit before this meeting began and
[49:54] the five acre issue uh uh came up. Uh,
as you probably know, you have four
[50:01] senior living facilities in the city
right now. Uh, one of them is uh 3 acres
[50:07] in Friendship Village is 50 acres. He
didn't know what the next one is above
[50:13] uh three acres. So I'm I'm questioning,
you know, you you think about Friendship
[50:19] Village and also think about Lar Park or
Lomar U
[50:24] » [clears throat]
>> uh senior living there and is 5 acres
[50:30] large enough? Um
and also am concerned about the uh
[50:36] setbacks that are listed here. Um
when LMAR uh was was built, yes, it was
[50:43] supposed to be condos uh and it was
changed to senior living. Um but there
[50:49] was a number of issues uh as it was
being built. I happened to be an
[50:54] alderman at the time and Doug Magcguire
happens to be here at this meeting uh
[51:00] was an alderman and also the trustee on
Merit Drive. And there were some
[51:05] residents that backed up to uh that
facility and they had a whole bunch of
[51:11] issues and uh justified issues too. So
um I'm also thinking back to when I was
[51:20] an alderman years ago. Uh some uh
residents in Sunset Manor approached me
[51:26] about reszoning that area.
um they were zoned at R5, which is 7,500
[51:34] square ft.
And so if they wanted to do anything to
[51:38] their homes, uh their lots were too
small. The average lot uh in uh Sunset
[51:46] Matter is 50 by 132, which calculates to
just over 5,000 ft. So, uh, the majority
[51:56] of those people had to jump through
hoops just to do, uh, some improvements
[52:01] to their homes.
So we uh decided the board back then to
[52:08] uh reduce or create a new zoning uh
classification of R six which is 5,000
[52:15] square ft which uh for most of it uh uh
that satisfied
[52:22] um them allowing to do things and having
not to jump over a couple of hurdles to
[52:28] do those improvements. There were some
that still had to fill out forms and and
[52:34] uh uh jump over those hurdles uh to do
those improvements to their home. But
[52:41] the question is what is the right size?
Obviously, you think about uh Friendship
[52:47] Village being a model here, but I
understand that there are smaller ones,
[52:54] but places like Larmore are bigger than
than uh uh that 5 acres, too. So,
[53:03] and I asked Mike, uh you know, there's
nothing proposed, but where are you
[53:07] thinking of putting uh these uh
senior living facilities? And because
[53:13] nothing has been proposed yet, he didn't
have an answer for that. But there's a
[53:18] whole lot of uh concern here. Uh I'd ask
that you uh not read this uh for a
[53:26] second time tonight and possibly hold
the uh public hearing open till till
[53:31] next month so other residents uh might
be able to come and add their comments.
[53:38] Uh but um think about
what's the appropriate size uh for this
[53:46] and what are the appropriate
measurements, building size, setbacks,
[53:51] all that kind of stuff um that goes into
something like this. Uh I don't have the
[53:57] answers uh but I I want to call that to
your attention to uh consent. So thank
[54:05] you for your time.
>> Mr. Hardy, I also had the pleasure of
[54:07] serving on the board of alderman with
you and Dr. Magguire during the process.
[54:12] » Yeah.
>> of Lomar.
[54:15] » Thank you.
>> I'm not that old.
[54:17] » I'm not either.
>> That's a lie. [laughter]
[54:21] » Are any other comments from the
audience?
[54:25] » All right. We'll now close the public
hearing and move on to public comment.
[54:29] Dr. Magcguire.
[54:37] Doug Maguire, 12501 Merit Drive. Isn't
that right? Isn't that where I have to
[54:42] go? [laughter] Okay. I get lost
sometime. Big deal. Anyway, I came up.
[54:47] Some of you don't always Friendship
Village or Peace Haven or [laughter]
[54:52] » Please, not quite yet.
Maybe next week.
[54:57] Anyway, um some people here probably
don't know me, but I just retired last
[55:04] month, uh in June after serving for 20
years, and I started out behind the
[55:10] desk. I was an alderman
with the aforementioned mayor, who I'm
[55:15] so proud of, and and thank you for
putting up with me [laughter] for so
[55:21] many years. We did a lot of good. But uh
I also uh want to thank my old I called
[55:29] him the boss Gerald. What a work this
man is. He is such a valuable asset to
[55:35] this city. The man not only does
everybody like him, especially the
[55:40] people that work for him. But that's not
just here, it's everywhere we go, you
[55:46] know, around the state. Everyone likes
Gerald. and and I really respect him for
[55:52] all the work he does. I know he's on top
of every single grant that we can get,
[55:58] which is what a modern-day parks board
is supposed to be all about. And he
[56:03] certainly fits that bill. And if this
city ever loses him, we will be in a bad
[56:09] place. He will be very hard to replace.
not as hard as me. But [laughter]
[56:17] but I also wanted to tell you that I've
recently found myself in four major
[56:22] categories these days. I'm a 20enter.
I'm a 4enter. I'm a 1enter and I'm a
[56:31] less than 1enter.
Now the 20% is I'm one of the 20% people
[56:37] that can drive a stick shift.
80% of the people nowadays cannot drive
[56:43] a stick shift car anymore, which is
ridiculous, but so I think, but what do
[56:48] I know? And the the less than 1%.
I've spent 20 years working for the
[56:53] city. Guess what? Nobody else. Hardly
anyone else. Well, sorry, Frank. You're
[56:59] in that group [laughter]
and the mayor, but there's very, very
[57:03] few that get that far. the [snorts]
other ones.
[57:08] Um, [clears throat] 1%
I got drafted into the army in 1970
[57:14] and only 1% of the United States
population serves in the military. Now,
[57:21] I'm not telling you I wanted to go.
Vietnam was still cooking and if you got
[57:26] drafted, you know where you were going
to go. And uh, it was not a pleasant
[57:31] thing. And it was even worse when we got
home. Back in those days, I could not
[57:36] have stood up here and talked. They
would have told me to hit the door. We
[57:40] were They all thought we were going to
freak out and blow everybody up.
[57:45] Whatever. Anyway, but my 4% is something
we could all do. I'm one of the 4% of
[57:51] Americans who give blood regularly.
And I would love to see this make
[57:57] America great again. You want to make
America great? Give your blood. give
[58:01] your organs. These are the things that
make America great. It's not money. It's
[58:06] not all this crazy stuff that's going
on. And I don't want to tell you the
[58:10] president was a draft dodger. Don't want
to say that cuz I did my duty. Anyway,
[58:16] again, thank you, mayor, for all the
years. Gerald couldn't be happier with
[58:21] what we did and how things went. It's
going to continue. Oh, one more thing.
[58:27] Please utilize the art committee when
things go through that are art related.
[58:33] I think they should go through the art
committee.
[58:37] They need more to do too, you know, just
keep them busy. They have good ideas,
[58:41] but always more to do. Thank you
everyone. Hope you have a pleasant
[58:45] evening.
>> Thank you for your service, Dr.
[58:48] Magcguire.
[58:53] » Have any other public comments?
[laughter]
[58:59] Do we have any other public comments?
Mrs. Gillette, have you received any?
[59:03] Mrs. Stone, have you received any email?
Okay, moving on now to old business.
[59:10] We have none. City official and
committee reports, city clerk, city
[59:15] administrator, Mrs. Gillette. That'll be
hard to follow. Um, just a reminder that
[59:20] we do have two meetings next month. We
will have our regularly scheduled board
[59:23] of alderman meeting and then we will
have our work session. We'll do that
[59:26] with the finance committee. That one
typically starts at 5:30 on the 4th
[59:29] Tuesday. Thank you.
>> Director of finance, Mr. Tman.
[59:37] » Thank you, Madame Mayor. Uh, as I've
been talking about for the last several
[59:41] months, tonight is the 2026 midyear
budget adjustment is in front of you. Um
[59:46] it was presented at the finance
committee in July and they unanimous
[59:50] unanimously recommended uh for your
approval. It's on there for a second
[59:54] reading tonight which is per usual that
we do. Uh the overall adjustment is
[59:59] favorable but favorable by 130,800.
Next month as Britney mentioned we'll
[1:00:05] have the two meetings. At the first
meeting we'll have the public hearing
[1:00:09] for the real estate and personal
property tax rates. Um, and then we'll
[1:00:13] put the ordinance in that meeting as
well to be read. And then as Britney
[1:00:17] mentioned, uh, the second meeting is the
budget. So, right now, that's what
[1:00:21] finance is involved in. That's what my
head's been in all day is 2027's budget.
[1:00:26] The city staff are preparing all their
capital uh, five-year capital plans. I'm
[1:00:31] consolidating all that data and we're
putting it all together so that staff
[1:00:34] can review all of that, put together all
the information for you all next month.
[1:00:39] So, it's a busy time right now for us.
Thank you all for your time.
[1:00:43] » Thank you very much, Chief of Police.
Chief Dodge.
[1:00:50] » Thank you, Mayor. Uh we finished up with
our last uh phone scam presentation uh
[1:00:54] last month. Uh overall, it was pretty
successful. We had uh over 40 people
[1:00:59] attend um between the two presentations,
about 40 minutes of presentation, and
[1:01:06] then about a half hour of of question uh
afterwards. So, everyone was really um
[1:01:12] paying attention and into it and so
hopefully uh it, you know, it helped and
[1:01:16] we might do this again sometime in the
near future. Um we did conduct some
[1:01:20] active shooter training at Chestnut
Rehab uh conducted by Officer Greg
[1:01:24] Schnitker and Detective Sergeant Pisker.
Um talked to him about what our response
[1:01:29] would be, what they can do if god forbid
ever happens there. Um this is something
[1:01:33] we have done for for businesses and
schools and and other entities. So
[1:01:37] certainly if anybody is is interested in
that, just contact the PD and that's
[1:01:42] something we can help them out with. Um
and then lastly, we uh have our uh body
[1:01:47] cams and our new radios all up and
operational. A lot of hard work by
[1:01:51] Lieutenant Greg's Vital and uh Jeff
Morris um getting those systems up and
[1:01:55] running. Um so they really are a nice
upgrade from what we had before. So
[1:01:59] we're very appreciative for that as well
because I know the board approved that.
[1:02:02] So thank you on that one. And if anyone
has any questions,
[1:02:06] » Alderman Davis.
>> Yes, ma'am.
[1:02:08] » Okay. I've been I think all of us
probably have been receiving those
[1:02:11] messages about flop cameras and the
audio being used and being and some
[1:02:17] people doing things they shouldn't be
doing with them. So, how do we audit
[1:02:22] that? What's the process in Sunset
Hills? Well, we do have we do have a uh
[1:02:26] policy concerning all our systems,
whether it's Flock,
[1:02:31] um our body cams, uh Regis, any kind of
database that we are that we do have, we
[1:02:38] we have a policy that says they are for
official use only and any use beyond
[1:02:43] that can result in discipline up to and
including termination. So what we also
[1:02:49] have done recently is we had all the
sergeants address this issue obviously
[1:02:53] because it is a hot button issue with
all the officers at all the roll calls
[1:02:56] to let them know hey this is something
that's obviously people are paying a lot
[1:03:01] of attention to and again you know
readise them of the policy so to speak.
[1:03:07] I myself has put have put out emails
concerning latest incidents that have
[1:03:12] happened in the news that we've seen
that have resulted in officers getting
[1:03:15] charged and fired and whatnot and just
reemphasized them to them. Hey, this is
[1:03:20] just an very important database to us.
It really is. I asked our detectives
[1:03:24] today. I said, "Hey, what percentage do
you think of our cases that we go out
[1:03:27] and solve do we utilize this flock
system?" And they said just about every
[1:03:31] one of them. Um I know it it also
prevented, you know, stop. We had car
[1:03:34] clottings really bad up at the Grand
View neighborhood. I don't know if you
[1:03:37] remember that. they were getting
hammered and uh including one incident
[1:03:40] where they uh had a subject go into one
of the garages armed with a pistol and
[1:03:44] that was caught on camera. A flock
system was put into that neighborhood by
[1:03:47] that neighborhood and we haven't had a
problem since. Um same goes with the
[1:03:52] Gravo Industrial neighborhood. We had uh
we they put in a flock system down
[1:03:56] there. We were getting hit there a
couple times a week. Haven't had a
[1:03:59] problem. So we really emphasize to the
officers, hey, this is too important of
[1:04:03] a system for us to mess up because if
this keeps on happening, that's that's
[1:04:07] what will happen. People will take it
away. Now, we do have an audit system in
[1:04:10] place that is uh uh Mary Eler is the one
who who gets a report at the end of the
[1:04:15] month. Every time you uh pull up a do a
flock search, you have to give a reason
[1:04:22] and it has to have be a law enforcement
reason. And so those are reviewed every
[1:04:26] month by uh Mary and also the
lieutenants as well. So this is
[1:04:30] something we take very seriously and we
understand the concern too. Okay.
[1:04:34] Privacy is very important to people but
this system is so important to us that
[1:04:37] we want to make sure that we have tight
controls on it to where people's
[1:04:41] privacies are are respected and we're
able to utilize this very important
[1:04:45] tool.
>> How how widespread is the flock camera
[1:04:48] used in Sunset Hills in subdivisions?
>> Well, we only have well we only have two
[1:04:52] cameras. The city itself only has two
cameras. Um but there's several
[1:04:57] neighborhoods I want to say. Yeah,
there's a I don't want to really put
[1:05:00] them out there right now because these
things are getting cut down left and
[1:05:03] right, but um because that's that's a
big problem we have right now is the
[1:05:07] vandalism with these things. They're
starting to uh cut cut them vandalize
[1:05:10] them and do and other things to them.
So, we're aware of that and if that
[1:05:14] happens, we will investigate that, too.
But, uh there are a lot of neighborhoods
[1:05:18] that have utilized these that are
utilized these and they they're paid for
[1:05:21] by the neighborhoods, just so we're
clear on that. um that can, you know,
[1:05:25] alert us if if a stolen car comes in in
the neighborhood or something like that
[1:05:29] because that that's the big thing about
a lot of the crimes are being committed.
[1:05:32] They use stolen cars to commit these
crimes. And so, you know, if we get hit
[1:05:36] for a stolen car in a neighborhood, hey,
that's something we're going to want to
[1:05:38] go and get there as quickly as possible.
So, it really is just a critical system
[1:05:42] for us. So, we want to do everything we
can to make sure it's not abused and
[1:05:46] that we can keep using the system.
>> So, I think I heard you say that more
[1:05:50] than one person reviews if there's an
issue. It's not just you making the
[1:05:54] decision, it's you plus. Is that
correct?
[1:05:56] » Yeah, we have we have we we just
recently it's started this because of
[1:06:00] everything that's going on. We've always
had the policy policyy's always been
[1:06:03] there, but yeah, it it's a there's a
report that's that's generated at at the
[1:06:07] end of every month and it goes over
who's using the system and for what
[1:06:11] » and who reviews that.
>> Right now we have uh Mary Eler is kind
[1:06:14] of our uh flock person, but then it can
also be she'll do that with a
[1:06:19] conjunction of lieutenants as well.
Thank you.
[1:06:24] » Any other questions for the chief?
>> This one goes I do have one. Go ahead.
[1:06:28] » This one is about drones. Are we
considering having drones?
[1:06:32] » No.
>> Okay.
[1:06:35] » Alderman Akens.
>> Thank you. I just had a quick question.
[1:06:38] I noticed that Ward One accounts for
nine of July's 12 larsenies. And I was
[1:06:44] just wondering if there was a pattern
that Ward One residents need to know
[1:06:48] about. Like is this one neighborhood? Is
this like random vehicle breakins? Just
[1:06:52] anything that our residents need to
know?
[1:06:55] » Well, I think uh if I'm not mistaken,
that incorporates some of the business
[1:06:59] area. Correct. That's uh Home Depot and
that area in there. So, yeah, that's
[1:07:04] that's just I think I'm I'm almost sure.
I'd have to look through it and I can
[1:07:07] get an answer for you, but I'm pretty
sure that's going to be like a lot of
[1:07:09] shopliftings and that kind of thing.
>> Okay. Thank you,
[1:07:14] Alderman Freriedman. We um incorporated
uh double fines on
[1:07:21] » Denny are and it are the are any double
fine tickets being written or I know
[1:07:27] that's a discret discretionary thing.
>> Well, I know the a bunch of tickets have
[1:07:32] written have been written on there and
the officers are aware. I haven't
[1:07:34] specifically checked the tickets to see
which ones have have been marked double
[1:07:38] fine, but I think as far as I know they
they probably most of them have been. I
[1:07:43] but that's something I can look into.
>> That is some certainly that we can check
[1:07:47] with the prosecutor as well.
>> Thank you very much, Chief.
[1:07:52] » Thank you,
>> city attorney, Mrs. Cely.
[1:07:58] » Um, yes, I really don't have much
report. Still working on some things in
[1:08:01] the background. So hopefully we'll be
able to bring some code amendments to
[1:08:03] you as we move those. But unless there's
any questions, that's all I have for
[1:08:07] tonight. Okay.
>> Any questions for Mrs. Celely?
[1:08:11] » All right.
>> Thank you so much. Director of Planning
[1:08:13] and Public Works, Mr. Knight.
>> I'm back. Um, just a couple things
[1:08:19] tonight. Uh, one thing I want to make
the the board aware of is every 5 years
[1:08:24] we go out to bid for our trash, our
solid waste. Um, we have gone out to
[1:08:28] bid. Um, it's out there as once we get
our bids returned, we'll return back to
[1:08:33] committee and the board. Um, as we
typically would, uh, we've been talking
[1:08:38] about another city entrance sign at
committee. you know, our city entrance
[1:08:41] signs that sit on Lindberg at both
entrances. There's another location
[1:08:46] where we have an existing one on Watson
um just right as you cross the Crestwood
[1:08:51] border heading west talking to that
property owner about uh putting one on
[1:08:56] their property because they have to be
out of rightway. They're agreeable.
[1:08:59] We're just going out there talking to
them and then u we'll program that in to
[1:09:03] the budget for next year or put it for
them. Um, so two projects. One,
[1:09:08] Kennerly, we talked about Kennerly Road
and the storm water infrastructure
[1:09:12] replacement that is needed. We had a
pre-construction meeting. Um, they
[1:09:17] talked about how this would be done.
It'll be a 4-day approach in which
[1:09:21] they'll have to close down the road for
4 days from 9:00 a.m. to 300 p.m. Um, we
[1:09:27] will get there the the big piece of
infrastructure is in production. So once
[1:09:32] we know it's completed, which should
happen very soon, we'll have at least a
[1:09:36] week's notice that we'll start um
communicating to the public of this road
[1:09:41] closure. Um it's a 4 day, so we want to
start on a Monday. So we'll have, you
[1:09:45] know, however works out for that week
and start on a Monday. Um and which
[1:09:49] again, it'll only be closed right at
that spot, but message boards, Facebook,
[1:09:53] all the ways that we communicate these
road closures um will implement. West
[1:09:59] Watson phase two. Again, we've been
talking about that one. So, we're at the
[1:10:03] first phase of phase two. We were uh
Spire last time. They are currently
[1:10:08] moving their infrastructure out of their
way. T-Hill is moving everywhere they
[1:10:12] can until they can close in, which is
where they were going to start and
[1:10:16] finish up. At earliest, we're projecting
end of September. Um and again, we
[1:10:22] talked at committee level. We say within
two weeks once we get close enough to
[1:10:26] where we can define a timeline but we're
two weeks back we'll start communicating
[1:10:30] the second phase of that closure from
Pagata to the we'll call it the overpass
[1:10:37] updates on both of those unless there's
any questions that's what I have
[1:10:42] contract
>> so end of this year so January 2027 is
[1:10:47] when it would start to 31
>> Alderman Schwarz Yeah, Mike, can you
[1:10:53] give me an update on the Onyx schedule
as well as the solar lights, speeds
[1:10:58] lights?
>> Oh, yes. So, I'll I'll start with the
[1:11:00] solar lights because Jerry just
mentioned today that um he either just
[1:11:04] got them or he knows a date. So,
remember that was either next year or
[1:11:07] this year. We had funds in the budget,
so we did order them. So, that should
[1:11:11] happen fairly soon. Once he gets them,
he'll put them up. Um Onyx, we're still
[1:11:15] looking at that September date, early
September. It hasn't changed since then.
[1:11:20] » Okay. Thank you.
>> Mhm. Any other questions for Mr. Knight?
[1:11:24] All right. Thank you very much. Director
of Parks and Recreation, Mr. Brown.
[1:11:30] » Thank you, Madam Mayor. Just a couple of
items. One is our tennis court. We will
[1:11:34] be holding our ribbon cutting ceremony
this Saturday at 10:00 a.m. Uh the
[1:11:38] actual ribbon cutting will take place at
10:30. We're going to hold um clinics,
[1:11:42] pickle ball clinics and tennis clinics.
They'll start at 10:00. They'll run till
[1:11:45] noon. So, if you've never played tennis
or you want to understand how to play
[1:11:48] pickle ball, we have people there to
show everyone. We'll also have barbecue
[1:11:52] for anyone that shows up after the
actual ribbon cutting. So, or if you
[1:11:56] haven't been by, there's two courts that
are 100% complete. Um, and by Friday,
[1:12:00] we're supposed to have the other two
100% complete. Uh, they look fantastic.
[1:12:05] I will say that the two that are
completely done look fantastic. So, um,
[1:12:10] unfortunately, the tennis team couldn't
get on them today. They had still had to
[1:12:12] dry. U, but they're they're um they're
wanting to get on them very quickly. So,
[1:12:18] uh, Sunset Nights, it's our annual
machine madness event. That's going to
[1:12:22] be held next Wednesday, August 19th,
6:00 to 8:00 p.m. It's going to be held
[1:12:25] at Minihaha Park. Compared to, in the
past, we've always held it here. It's
[1:12:29] very cramped. A lot of large trucks,
dump trucks, mail trucks, army vehicles,
[1:12:34] police vehicles, fire trucks, you name
it, we have it where the kids can
[1:12:37] actually go in, hit the horn, so forth.
Um, that'll be from 6:00 to 8 on next
[1:12:42] Wednesday. We also have food trucks and
we have live music as well. So happy to
[1:12:46] answer any other questions.
[1:12:51] » Oh, thank you.
>> Thank you very much, Mr. Brown.
[1:12:53] » Mr. Brown,
>> one question
[1:12:55] » for Brian.
>> Are we going to be able to fish in that
[1:12:58] lake anytime soon?
>> So, where we're at with that project, we
[1:13:04] we had a survey conducted to do a
grading plan. Uh the issue at hand has
[1:13:09] always been about the watershed. We've
had numerous people out there, different
[1:13:13] contractors, architects, engineers
trying to do the calculations. Do we
[1:13:17] attract enough water to keep the water
level at a certain height? So, there's
[1:13:21] been discussion of putting an
agricultural well to help feed that to
[1:13:25] offset that. Uh, but what we did was we
did a survey. We hired a company to come
[1:13:29] in and actually just do a grading plan,
very inexpensive survey, just to have
[1:13:32] them come in, do a little light survey
where grading needs to be done and
[1:13:36] pushed. Um, I hope to have a proposal by
the end of this week and we hope to
[1:13:40] start to move dirt. You'll start to see
some movement. Um, will we be able to
[1:13:45] fish in it this year?
>> I [laughter] I don't know. I I I don't
[1:13:50] want to say yes, but maybe in December.
It might be uh fishing in December, but
[1:13:55] » ice fishing.
>> And they're referring to the Bander
[1:13:58] Property Fishing Lake for children. That
is correct.
[1:14:01] » That the foundation is supporting.
>> Correct. And Mr. and the steering
[1:14:06] family. So,
>> so it is it's moving along and I do
[1:14:10] apologize for the delay. It's just been
a bigger project than we anticipated it
[1:14:15] to be trying to do it in-house. So,
>> well, we are making interest on the
[1:14:20] money sitting there. So, that's good.
>> Yeah, it wasn't the intention. The
[1:14:23] intention was we really thought we could
do it all in house and it's just been
[1:14:27] become a bigger job than our six guys
doing it. So,
[1:14:31] » thank you, Mr. Brown. Moving on to
committee reports, finance committee,
[1:14:35] Alderman Fernandez.
>> Thank you, Madame Mayor. Appreciate
[1:14:37] that. And it is open for swimming. Uh
[laughter]
[1:14:41] mumbo, if you're right down. Yes.
So, as uh Mr. Treman noted, we met on
[1:14:47] the 27th of July and spent a fair amount
of time going through the budget
[1:14:51] adjustments. Uh that's important because
year to year, these things are just hard
[1:14:54] to follow. Uh there's just timing delays
and things. Um but to his point,
[1:14:57] unanimously approved those. So, thank
you. Um, additionally, we did spend a
[1:15:01] fair amount of time also talking about
Prop P and everything that's coming
[1:15:04] ahead. I know we have a steering
committee is dealing with that, but
[1:15:06] really diving deeply in these numbers
and the committee is really excited um
[1:15:10] to do some work on that. So, appreciate
that. More to report next month.
[1:15:14] » Any questions for Alderman Fernandez.
Okay. Thank you very much. Parks and
[1:15:19] Recreation Commission. Alderman Davis.
>> Thank you. Um, our August meeting is
[1:15:24] going to be a walkthrough of Watson
Trail Park. in case you haven't been
[1:15:28] there recently. It looks fabulous. Thank
you, sir, for all the work you're doing.
[1:15:32] Can't believe your head's not this big
already from what Doug said. So, we also
[1:15:38] have repair going on in both Minihaha
and Watson Trail with asphalt and
[1:15:45] overlays. And we have a day the day camp
ended. We had 80 children attend on a
[1:15:51] weekly basis. And our annual dog splash
event will be September 9th and 11th.
[1:15:58] And that's all I have to report.
>> Thank you very much. Police Advisory
[1:16:02] Board, Alderman Columbo.
>> We will meet next Tuesday, but I would
[1:16:06] like to add I had lunch with the police
chief of Maplewood today and he is going
[1:16:11] to have to go in front of his board to
justify keeping the flock cameras and he
[1:16:15] actually thinks he's going to lose. So,
it's thankful to our alderman, our
[1:16:20] residents, the support they show our law
enforcement that we get to keep tools
[1:16:24] like that to keep our community safer.
So, it is very important that we
[1:16:29] maintain those
>> very much public works committee
[1:16:33] alderman dos.
>> Thank you, Madam Mayor.
[1:16:35] » Uh, Mr. Knight, you were very uh concise
in your report, so I edited a lot of my
[1:16:41] notes. So, here are the things that Mike
didn't bring up. So, I give you new
[1:16:46] information. Uh, during the public
comment time, Alderman Freeman led a
[1:16:51] discussion on city assistance for
private street maintenance in terms of
[1:16:55] specifications and bid costing. It was a
very good discussion.
[1:16:59] » Turn on your mic, please turn on your
mic.
[1:17:05] » I thought I was loud enough anyway, but
okay.
[1:17:08] » Usually, you are.
>> Yeah, I know. I know. [laughter]
[1:17:12] Um we then move to a discussion on
contractor selection results concerning
[1:17:18] chip seal
and the difference in results between
[1:17:22] residential streets versus higher
traffic arterial streets. It was very
[1:17:27] good discussion.
We then talked about contract
[1:17:32] communication to our residents
and we talked about what has been on the
[1:17:38] past and what we were doing moving
forward. And as Mike alluded to, but we
[1:17:41] discussed it, it seems the sweet spot
was two weeks. So, we all agreed on
[1:17:47] that. Um, I brought up Weber Hill
traffic.
[1:17:52] That's in Ward 4. And some of the
residents would like to see a no through
[1:18:00] traffic sign on West Watson for people
that are turning from Highway 30 because
[1:18:06] they don't know after they've turned
they don't know that it's no through
[1:18:11] traffic many times till they get to
Weber Hill. So where are they going to
[1:18:16] go? They're either going to back up or
going to go up Weber Hill. So I think
[1:18:21] it's important for that. Um on waste
collection, we had a resident come and
[1:18:27] talk to us about his bad experiences
with Eagle. Uh my experiences personally
[1:18:34] have been very good, but his were not.
And he wanted us to consider a second
[1:18:40] vendor as well as getting options for
two pickups a week as well as getting
[1:18:46] options for bulk pickup on demand. So,
I've talked a little bit about that with
[1:18:54] Britney and we can discuss this if you
all want to, but those were some of the
[1:19:00] points made there. And um that's about
it. Thank you, Madame Mayor.
[1:19:06] » Okay. Thank you very much. Moving on now
to new business, bill number 149. Would
[1:19:11] you please read that for us, Alderman
Doss?
[1:19:15] » It's on, Frank. [laughter]
[1:19:19] 149, an ordinance approving and adopting
a budget adjustment for the 2020 2026
[1:19:26] budget.
Move to suspend the rules.
[1:19:33] » Second.
>> Motion was made by Alderman Doss,
[1:19:36] seconded by Alderman Aikens to suspend
the rules for bill number 149. Roll call
[1:19:41] vote, please.
>> Alderman Daw,
[1:19:43] » discussion.
>> Oh, discussion. Alderman Freeman.
[1:19:46] » This is budget adjustments. Um, why did
the
[1:19:50] » I'm sorry, Frank. [laughter]
Why did the pension contribution rate
[1:19:55] increase?
>> It changes every year.
[1:20:00] » Okay. And is that a statutory? I Is it a
statutory thing? Is it a formula thing?
[1:20:06] » It's a formula thing. It's based on the
valuation of our plan and the age of our
[1:20:10] employees and it just changes every
year.
[1:20:12] » And who increases it?
>> Loggers. Yes, ma'am.
[1:20:16] And how is there a loss on the cell
phone tower? What is PV adjustment?
[1:20:22] » Go ahead.
>> Yeah. [clears throat]
[1:20:25] » So, that is a present value adjustment
that I had to do for our Sorry, I
[1:20:30] [clears throat] lost my voice a couple
days ago and I'm still recovering. Um,
[1:20:34] we have our cell tower lease with AT&T,
>> right?
[1:20:37] » And we receive checks from them every
month. Well, they have a portion of
[1:20:42] those checks is for like dish revenue,
and we were informed in February of this
[1:20:48] year that $550 that we got every month
that was part of a rent check uh payment
[1:20:53] is no longer going to be continuing into
the future. And this lease goes through
[1:20:57] 2039, the beginning of 24th. So, I had
to recalculate what the receivable is
[1:21:03] for that entire lease. And by doing
that, by removing that 550 every month,
[1:21:08] that's the adjustment to get it to a new
present value for for our balance sheet.
[1:21:15] » Okay, that that's an asset though. I
mean, that gets you to the asset.
[1:21:19] » Setting liability is deferred income,
>> right?
[1:21:24] » Okay.
>> Right. So,
[1:21:25] » so we're going to get $550 less a month.
>> Yes.
[1:21:29] » Okay. That's just going to happen. Okay.
But we had already showed it as an asset
[1:21:34] on the
>> I had to reduce the asset the liability
[1:21:37] offsetting. That was the difference.
>> Okay. And how about correcting the
[1:21:44] $25,000 correcting wage allocation?
>> Yes, ma'am.
[1:21:48] » On full-time aquatic.
>> Yes, ma'am. Uh I would say that was just
[1:21:53] an error on my part. I had we had
another employee that got added to the
[1:21:57] pool this last year and when I had their
salaries the other employee had their
[1:22:01] salaries split between general and pool
and I copied that formula down and then
[1:22:06] I discovered the error here. So that's
correcting that error.
[1:22:09] » Okay. Okay. Thank you. All right. We
have a motion and a second to suspend
[1:22:15] the rules. Roll call vote, please.
>> Alderman Dawze.
[1:22:18] » I.
>> Alderman Freriedman I.
[1:22:20] » Alderman Wagel
>> I.
[1:22:22] » Alderman Columbbo. I
>> Alderman Schwarz.
[1:22:25] » I
>> Alderman Davis.
[1:22:27] » I
>> Alderman Akens.
[1:22:29] » I
>> Alderman Fernandez.
[1:22:31] » I
>> Eight eyes's.
[1:22:32] » Thank you. Alderman Daws, would you
please read bill number 149 for a second
[1:22:37] reading?
>> Bill number 149, an ordinance approving
[1:22:41] and adopting a budget adjustment for the
2026 budget. Move to approve.
[1:22:48] » Second.
>> She was made by Alderman Daws, seconded
[1:22:51] by Alderman Davis. Roll call vote,
please.
[1:22:54] » Alderman Fernandez,
>> I.
[1:22:56] » Alderman Akens,
>> I.
[1:22:58] » Alderman Davis,
>> I.
[1:23:00] » Alderman Schwarz,
>> I.
[1:23:04] » Hi.
>> Wigle.
[1:23:06] » I.
>> Alderman Freriedman.
[1:23:08] » I.
>> Alderman Daws. Eight eyes.
[1:23:12] » Thank you,
[1:23:19] Mrs. Stone. I don't have the sheet to
write that down on. So, we will have to
[1:23:24] uh
>> I think it's 24. Let me look it up
[1:23:26] really quick, mayor. Sorry.
>> Oh, wait a minute. It's hidden. I'm
[1:23:28] sorry.
>> You get it?
[1:23:29] » Yes. Bill number 149 becomes ordinance
number 2428.
[1:23:35] » Perfect.
>> It's stuck under my agenda.
[1:23:38] Bill number 150. Would you please read
that for us? Alderman Freriedman.
[1:23:43] » Madame Mayor. Bill number 150, an
ordinance amending various sections of
[1:23:48] the unified development ordinance
relating to recreational land use. First
[1:23:53] reading.
>> Alderman Columbo.
[1:23:57] » Yeah, I'd like to
make a motion to amend that or
[1:24:03] it's in relation to the parking
requirement. Um, with the one per 200
[1:24:07] being too restrictive, one per 600 too
liberal,
[1:24:11] I'd like to figure out a balance
somewhere in there um that would be
[1:24:15] acceptable to all, whether that's one
per 400, one per 350, or one per 300.
[1:24:22] Um, and if I go back off of my notes,
[1:24:32] you had a one per 400, a one per 480, a
one per 335, a one per 700, a one per
[1:24:39] 600.
>> Um, at the other places that I sort of
[1:24:46] looked into that were similar. Um,
I I don't know. I'm I'm I'm willing to
[1:24:52] hear from.
>> Do you have any recommendations?
[1:24:55] » I said during the public hearing I can
look into it, but five per thousand is
[1:24:58] what I went with, but I gladly do, but I
don't have another number like pocketed
[1:25:03] ready to go.
>> Do you have a number you'd buy?
[1:25:04] » I I
mean, I don't know that one per 400
[1:25:09] might seem a little high, so maybe one
per 350. I think that kind of splits it
[1:25:13] a little bit where it it's not so
restrictive that will you know and what
[1:25:19] I go off of is
like Spirit Gymnastics if if that if
[1:25:24] they were to try and do now
what they've been doing with their
[1:25:29] 14,000 square ft you know currently have
27 spots and they're they are utilizing
[1:25:34] a couple of spots just random them
around the back so say an extra five
[1:25:38] spots
32 spots just by our ordinance, they'd
[1:25:42] have to have 70 just for the gymnastics
portion and then still provide for the
[1:25:47] other
20,000 square feet of light and you know
[1:25:51] so it it gets really burdensome to try
and meet that threshold so that maybe
[1:25:56] one per 350 I mean it seems
[1:26:04] I'm sorry Fred
>> I don't want to interrupt you
[1:26:10] just wanted to hear what you had to
safe. But
[1:26:11] » do we Okay, if we did, how many parking
spots are there right now? Can we get
[1:26:17] into some actual data?
>> I think we should be very careful not to
[1:26:21] focus solely on one
>> user while we're talking about amending
[1:26:27] as a whole for the whole thing.
>> What you're saying could be very very
[1:26:30] reasonable. I just don't have a concept
of what is reasonable. Well, and that's
[1:26:35] why I was trying to give examples that
we currently have in those areas, you
[1:26:38] know, like Veta 60 spots and that's
including, I believe, three handicap
[1:26:43] spots for 45 to 50,000 square feet. So,
that's very they're they're above the
[1:26:49] one per 600, but I don't know that it's
ever full or not full. I just you never
[1:26:55] hear anybody. May I f may I follow up
with something just Okay. So listening
[1:27:01] to the gentleman in the previous
meeting, I think I have a pretty good
[1:27:05] concept of what is being proposed.
When I've gone to a facility like this
[1:27:12] in Denver with my grandchildren,
there are various pitching components
[1:27:18] that are pretty much one onone with with
the teacher and and and things. There's
[1:27:23] a catcher, of course.
There is probably in the Denver place
[1:27:28] there were probably three or four maybe
yeah three or four at the most batting
[1:27:32] stations.
In those there might have been 10, 12,
[1:27:37] 13, 14 kids and a number of instructed.
Once they got into the cage they
[1:27:42] obviously swung but they worked with
them out of the cage. So if you multiply
[1:27:49] that, there might have been between the
pitching and the batting maybe
[1:27:55] 40 50 kids there. I don't know how many
parking spots that would require.
[1:28:01] Everything you're saying seems to make
sense to me, but I [snorts] have no
[1:28:04] concept.
I if you go by the facility that they're
[1:28:09] currently sharing with another
baseball group, right?
[1:28:15] They have 27 spots in front of that and
that's next door to the basketball
[1:28:19] facility that my daughter goes to. So, I
see the parking and they're not spilling
[1:28:23] into our basketball parking
utilizing those spots. So, I'm
[1:28:29] comfortable. I mean, it's still going to
require them
[1:28:32] 40 spots, I believe, or 50 spots in that
particular instance, which is way more
[1:28:36] than what we're requiring Spirit
Gymnastics or Vetta to have per square
[1:28:41] foot. So, I that's why I think we just
kind of balance it out and let Mike
[1:28:46] maybe verify some of the things that
I've seen here, but I would move to
[1:28:50] amend the one per 350. And if it's too
liberal, when we go to the second
[1:28:54] reading, we could change it.
>> Yeah. I think there's also other
[1:28:59] resources, right? So like there's other
cities, they have these in their
[1:29:03] regulations. We can take a look at some
other cities. There is just engineering
[1:29:08] transportation manuals that provide
numbers. So the IT parking generation
[1:29:12] manual, I think they're on their sixth
edition. Let's see what they have. Let's
[1:29:15] see what other cities have. I mean, we
we can put one per three, but that's
[1:29:19] just what the draft ordinance will be in
front of you. But I can always still
[1:29:21] come back with that information and I
think answer some of these questions
[1:29:24] that we're talking about now.
>> All right. So, do you want to continue
[1:29:29] tonight to amend it or do you want to
wait until next month after more
[1:29:33] research has been completed?
>> And I'd make a motion to amend now and
[1:29:37] then figure out if we went
>> too too far one way or the other.
[1:29:43] » Motion to amend to that number. Yes.
Okay.
[1:29:47] » Okay. There's a motion to amend bill
number 150 to allow for parking one to
[1:29:54] 350. one per 350 gross feet area.
>> Have a second.
[1:29:58] » Yes.
>> Alderman Schwarz made a second to that
[1:30:01] motion.
>> Yes.
[1:30:02] » To to the amendment.
[1:30:07] » Um roll call vote for the amendment.
[1:30:14] » Aldering Columbbo.
>> That mean
[1:30:17] » you Yes. Voting for the amendment.
>> I couldn't hear. [laughter]
[1:30:23] » Hi Davis Bernins
>> I
[1:30:28] » Alderman Fernandez
>> I
[1:30:30] » Alderman Wel
>> I
[1:30:32] » Alderman Freriedman
>> Alderman Daws
[1:30:36] » eight eyes.
>> So next month bill number 150 will be
[1:30:39] read as amended
for the second reading. All right. Bill
[1:30:44] number 151. Will you please read that
for us? Alderman Schwarz.
[1:30:49] Bill number 151, an ordinance amending
various sections of the unified
[1:30:54] development ordinance relating to
creating a senior living SL zoning
[1:31:00] district. First reading
>> second
[1:31:07] a motion for the second reading is that
>> yes
[1:31:13] can second my motion. I'd like to make a
motion to um I know it's the first
[1:31:18] reading to uh ask staff to come back to
us with an option for
[1:31:25] looking at this as a use without having
a senior living district that we could
[1:31:32] look at it side by side.
>> I would second that.
[1:31:37] » And I I don't know if that I'll Okay.
[laughter] I was going to say you did.
[1:31:43] » That's a good idea.
>> Okay.
[1:31:45] » Second it should second.
>> Doss did. Okay. There's a motion.
[1:31:50] » Sorry.
>> To uh ask staff to come back and ask for
[1:31:54] an option
use without senior living.
[1:32:01] » Did I rephrase that correctly? to to
amend the UDO in such a way as to make
[1:32:07] the various nursing home planned
retirement
[1:32:13] um permitted or conditional uses rather
than establish an entire new zoning
[1:32:18] district.
>> Mike, are you comfortable that that's
[1:32:20] not too big of a change? They would have
to go back to planning and zoning.
[1:32:24] » So, I understand I was I don't know if
that's how the public hearing was
[1:32:27] actually advertised. If it just said
senior living uses or the SL district,
[1:32:32] » we would need to start over.
>> But would it matter how it advertised?
[1:32:37] Because
>> if it just
[1:32:40] » I think it is I
>> just because when I
[1:32:44] » because if it's looking at that and it's
not a timely issue. I mean
[1:32:52] » no no it's not a time you should want to
follow the processes advertised
[1:32:57] appropriately.
>> Yeah.
[1:32:59] I mean I think that is fairly different
concept
[1:33:03] » right and I think you're right
>> yes so then we need updated motion to
[1:33:09] bring it back right
>> so would we
[1:33:11] » I would like to make a motion to remand
this to public
[1:33:15] » to planning and zoning that would
include
[1:33:20] » the option the the ordinance brought to
us today along with an optional
[1:33:25] ordinance that would uh present this as
planned and conditional uses for
[1:33:33] » in an existing district
>> for retireing
[1:33:37] homes assisted.
>> Yeah.
[1:33:40] » Mhm.
>> We already had a motion and a second.
[1:33:42] Are you withdrawing the first one?
>> Yes.
[1:33:46] » Yes.
>> Okay. So, now we have another one.
[1:33:49] » Do we have a second?
>> Yes. a motion and a second from Alderman
[1:33:56] Donis. Um, would you like that read
again so everyone understands please
[1:34:02] what they're voting on?
>> Okay. [laughter] Cuz I'm like ah [gasps]
[1:34:07] I will I will try to rephrase this more
artfully.
[1:34:12] I'm making a motion to remand
this ordinance to planning and zoning
[1:34:19] and include with it a draft ordinance as
an alternative that would present
[1:34:25] assisted retirement centers, nursing
homes,
[1:34:30] and the other uses
>> plan retirement care center. Yes, the
[1:34:34] four uses um as permitted or conditional
uses in the commercial districts
[1:34:43] and any amendments, you know, if if
section five needed to be amended to
[1:34:49] include that.
>> Okay, we have a motion by Alderman
[1:34:53] Freriedman, a second by Alderman Daws.
Uh roll call vote. May I ask a
[1:34:59] clarifying question?
>> Yes, there discussion. Alderman Akens,
[1:35:02] » I just want to clarify. You're asking
for them to bring two different
[1:35:06] versions. Is that correct?
>> Well, if you'd rather bring it to the
[1:35:10] board for discussion rather than I
understand what you're saying.
[1:35:14] » Yeah. It's just a little confusing to
present two ordinances going through the
[1:35:19] public hearing process, but say you get
to pick one. That's not okay. The
[1:35:22] standard. I I actually would prefer the
idea of bringing it for a discussion and
[1:35:27] then you guys giving us direction from
that point if which one you want to move
[1:35:31] forward with. I think that's a lot
cleaner.
[1:35:34] » Are you withdrawing are you withdrawing
this ordinance and second?
[1:35:38] » Is this the third time?
>> Yes, madam. Yes, madame mayor. Yes,
[1:35:42] ma'am. [laughter]
[gasps]
[1:35:44] » Okay. So, we're starting fresh now.
>> Okay. to direct staff to bring to the
[1:35:50] board an alternative
draft ordinance for consideration that
[1:35:57] would include making assisted
retirement centers um nursing homes and
[1:36:04] planned retirements assisted living
>> nursing homes and um
[1:36:09] » rehabilitation
>> planners
[1:36:11] » center
>> as permitted andor conditional uses in
[1:36:17] the general general
the commercial district.
[1:36:20] » Commercial
>> unlimited commercial district.
[1:36:22] » Thank you for destruction.
>> All right. Now, do we have a second?
[1:36:29] » Yes, Madam Mayor.
>> Thank you.
[1:36:31] » Seconded the motion.
>> Okay.
[1:36:35] » So, can I get some clarification?
[clears throat]
[1:36:38] » Alderman Columbo.
>> So, we just had a first reading of this
[1:36:40] bill.
>> So, we'll still have a second reading of
[1:36:43] this bill next month.
>> Is that correct?
[1:36:45] » We don't have to. There's nothing that
requires it go back on. So I would
[1:36:50] » drawn their motions and their seconds,
>> right? So it's still alive.
[1:36:54] » Not this bill though. It's
>> the bill is still alive. It does not
[1:36:58] have to be placed on the next agenda. So
what we'll do is put both of these on
[1:37:02] for discussion and then if you guys
choose to move forward with with the one
[1:37:06] that exists now, we can put that on for
second reading at the October meeting.
[1:37:11] If you choose to move forward with the
one that allows permitted and
[1:37:14] conditional uses within general
commercial districts, that process will
[1:37:18] have to start over because it is too big
of a change to say, "Hey, we've already
[1:37:22] advertised this as a public hearing
because technically we have not." So,
[1:37:25] we'll start that process back over.
It'll just pause bill 151 and it has to
[1:37:30] go back through planning and zoning
again. Yeah.
[1:37:32] » Correct.
>> Okay. All right. So, do you all
[1:37:35] understand what you're voting on?
>> Oh, sure.
[1:37:39] » Okay. Call vote.
>> Freriedman.
[1:37:43] » Hi.
>> Alderman Daws.
[1:37:44] » Hi.
>> Alderman Andez.
[1:37:46] » Hi.
>> Alderman Aikens.
[1:37:48] » Hi.
>> Alderman Davis.
[1:37:54] [laughter]
>> Um. I
[1:38:00] » Aldrick Columbbo.
>> Nay.
[1:38:04] » I. [clears throat]
>> Seven eyes. One. Nay.
[1:38:10] We'll put it on for discussion in
September.
[1:38:13] » All right. Moving on now for
appointments. Peter Rodic, Parks and
[1:38:18] Recreation Commission, term to expire
811 2031. That would be in Ward 3. Jill
[1:38:26] Aresky, Chairman, Parks and Recreation
Commission, term to expire 1820.
[1:38:33] And uh would you like to take these
together or individually?
[1:38:37] » Together.
Um if you said the parks um ward I I
[1:38:44] missed it. I know Mr. Rodic is three
>> is Jill Archeski is in Jill. She's
[1:38:50] already on. This is just the appointment
of a chairman. This is not a new
[1:38:53] appointment. Yes, we lost our chairman.
>> But there's been some confusion about
[1:38:57] wards. So she is she's W
>> she's W two and already on the board. So
[1:39:03] it's not filling a vacancy or something.
It's just filling the position that Doug
[1:39:06] just left as chairman. She's taking over
as chairman, but continuing her term on
[1:39:11] parks and recreation.
>> Okay, we have a motion to take them both
[1:39:17] together from Alderman Dawze. Is there a
second?
[1:39:19] » Second.
>> Motion was made by Alderman Columbo. All
[1:39:22] in favor?
>> I oppose. All right, we will notify them
[1:39:27] of their new jobs. Uh any items under
general discussion?
[1:39:33] Alderman Freriedman.
>> Um yeah, actually a couple. Um the just
[1:39:38] to give an update on uh the steering
committee um
[1:39:44] about the uh storm water and parks tax.
Um first of all, we keep talking about
[1:39:50] Prop Ps
and we already have a Prop P fund. I I'd
[1:39:56] prefer we call this storm water
storm water or parks fund or SP but we
[1:40:05] isn't isn't it Prop P funds? Yeah. So
>> So there's there will be confusion
[1:40:10] moving forward. I'm afraid there's
already Prop Ps for the police
[1:40:14] department.
>> Okay. But it is Prop Ps and it's just
[1:40:20] the second phase of it maybe.
>> No, they're two very separate things.
[1:40:25] Prop P.
>> Prop P doesn't stop. That is effective
[1:40:30] right now until next April.
>> No, there are Prop funds
[1:40:35] » account um the county
>> fund number 15.
[1:40:39] » You're talking about the funds that go
to the police.
[1:40:41] » Correct. The county.
>> If we're going to be talking about Prop
[1:40:44] P, we'd have two Prop Ps. I just think
calling
[1:40:49] the the storm water parks or park storm
water a different thing might be
[1:40:55] » but it was passed as proposition P.
>> Okay.
[1:40:58] » So,
>> okay. So, we'll have two prop P funds.
[1:41:04] » We call we've always labeled the it
parks and stormwater fund on all of your
[1:41:08] account information.
>> Yeah. Okay. Well, we met and we gathered
[1:41:12] a lot of information about the current
we've met twice. uh current and
[1:41:17] historical uh funding of the parks and
recreation department. And when we say
[1:41:21] that, we include pools. Um Natalie has
taken two big unwieldy master plans and
[1:41:28] consolidated them into a workbook with
um notes that help us to help us focus
[1:41:35] on um relative priorities between the
two plans. And Mark has met with Gerald
[1:41:41] to discuss his top Gerald's top
priorities. So, thanks to um Britney and
[1:41:47] Jeff and Gerald for
all of this advanced information. And a
[1:41:53] couple um things caught our attention.
Um first, we need to get our arms around
[1:41:58] how parks is budgeted between the
general fund, the capital fund, and the
[1:42:03] storm water tax dollars. From year to
year, it appears that different line
[1:42:08] items of the budget are paid from
different funds. And it seems to us that
[1:42:14] this should be evaluated and
standardized.
[1:42:17] Second, as we were looking at this
information, it it occurred that all of
[1:42:23] this falls into the larger picture of
funding priorities across the city. Um,
[1:42:30] you know, there were 30 or 32 people
that that said their top priority in the
[1:42:37] comments were sidewalks. So that that
falls into you know kind of the larger
[1:42:43] city and the the best practice we think
is to understand the obligations the
[1:42:50] city has on its books now in the form of
existing assets particularly
[1:42:57] aging assets and assess the budgetary
needs that are going to be required to
[1:43:03] maintain them
properly into the future. And the
[1:43:07] priority may well be to move some
expenses from the general some some of
[1:43:14] the park expenses, traditional park
expenses from the general fund and the
[1:43:19] capital fund to the stormwater parks or
park storm water tax bucket to give the
[1:43:25] city greater flexibilities to address
all of the priorities citywide.
[1:43:32] um and this would comport with the
surveys finding that the highest scoring
[1:43:36] priority um is to focus over the next 20
years on um maintenance and it's
[1:43:43] something that Mr. Dunl from Cochran um
advocated when he made his presentation
[1:43:49] to the board. Um,
so at this point it may be better it may
[1:43:56] be a better place for the finance
committee to look into these issues to
[1:44:00] evaluate and standardize how line items
are paid from respective funds. assess
[1:44:06] the financial obligations of the city to
maintaining existing assets and budget
[1:44:13] expenses
um appropriately from each fund to
[1:44:18] achieve the most impactful um results
and then we can understand then after
[1:44:23] we've understood these existing
obligations and funding for them explore
[1:44:28] priorities across the city. Um, Alderman
Fernandez is
[1:44:35] is that something
that sounds
[1:44:39] » very much so um
>> within the wheelhouse of the finance
[1:44:41] committee?
>> Yes. and they're very willing to do
[1:44:43] that. Um, as part of the discussion we
had at the last committee meeting is
[1:44:46] they're kind of asking what more can we
do and this is an area of focus for
[1:44:49] everyone
and I think from my lens it would be in
[1:44:53] conjunction with obviously the the
finance department because they're going
[1:44:56] to have the data and I think we're going
to need both some answers and maybe a
[1:44:59] collaboration through the whole group.
>> Alderman Davis. So, how does all this
[1:45:06] meld together with our master plan that
we approved a couple months ago?
[1:45:14] » Well, I think I guess and I'll I'll go
on record of clarifying when we approve
[1:45:18] the master plan as approving the plan,
not any of those priorities underneath
[1:45:21] there is like that they were actually
going to happen. So, that was part of
[1:45:24] the discussion we had is that we need to
evaluate these what do they really cost?
[1:45:28] What do we have to the point of existing
liabilities? in one example and that
[1:45:31] would be out of the dollars that we've
learned kind of looking at these is
[1:45:36] portions of the storm water and parks
dollars have been spent on things like
[1:45:40] salary not necessarily capital projects
through time. So we need to evaluate
[1:45:45] what is that that are fixed costs we're
already committed to. So when we look at
[1:45:48] the dollars we're have available they
may not be as great as we think. We need
[1:45:51] to understand at least what that looks
like going forward. So it's some of
[1:45:54] those things and and I appreciate the
finance firm may know a lot of these
[1:45:57] answers already. It's a lot of us
looking at it new and trying to
[1:46:00] understand how those things are laying
out.
[1:46:02] » So those things that are aging out that
need replenished that will be very well
[1:46:08] considered. Right. I'm just thinking
about the pool for example
[1:46:12] because the so we have so many citizens
that really absolutely would just go
[1:46:19] berserko if we took away their lazy
river opportunity.
[1:46:23] » Well and I think again from our lens
it's sort of what are we committed to
[1:46:27] already? Um and obviously since this
whole one um came about we've committed
[1:46:31] a lot more to parts over time. So we
need to understand that along with then
[1:46:35] how do we think about adding new after
that like what actually do we have at
[1:46:39] our disposal to do that and on what
timeline I think that's the other part
[1:46:42] and I think is you know you guys know
way better than we do on some of the
[1:46:45] infrastructure even buildings like those
are massive projects that we may need to
[1:46:48] do.
>> So can we put in trolleys that take us
[1:46:51] from park to park to park?
>> One in Delmar we could look into
[1:46:55] probably. I know it
>> might be for sale. Yeah,
[1:46:58] » horseback.
[laughter]
[1:47:01] I would like to make a comment. Um I'm
excited to hear that there were that
[1:47:06] many comments about sidewalks because
most of you sitting up here have known
[1:47:08] that that's one of my big priorities. So
I'm excited to work with Brian about
[1:47:14] spending some money on sidewalks in
these upcoming years.
[1:47:17] » I believe there may be a
misunderstanding and 32 is not exactly a
[1:47:21] sampling size. Um but we're very willing
to look at all priorities. I'd like to
[1:47:25] add
>> that to the agenda for the next public
[1:47:27] works meeting, please.
>> Well, and I think what it gets down to
[1:47:33] is what we're trying to say is
everybody wants their lazy river pool
[1:47:39] and that's great and everybody wants
sidewalks and a lot of people want
[1:47:44] things and they they probably can't have
them all. we have to priorities at this
[1:47:50] time. we do have a pool that is in use
and we want to maintain and what's that
[1:47:57] going to cost into the future and is
that where is the priority and that's
[1:48:04] kind of where we think the finance
committee can do a deeper dive and
[1:48:11] understand the existing obligations
before we go out and add more assets and
[1:48:18] and financial obligations.
And I concur to that end. It's something
[1:48:24] we haven't really put that work into
some of the things in the past that we
[1:48:28] certainly could and being a board member
up here when you know knowing we're
[1:48:31] asked to do things without having as
much information by nobody's fault. It's
[1:48:35] just this is the biggest thing I think
we've seen in front of us and I'd go
[1:48:39] back to cyworks sidewalks versus like
roads that we know maybe need some
[1:48:42] attention that we haven't dealt with. We
don't really I don't have a really good
[1:48:46] handle on that. So, as the finance
committee helping advise this group, I
[1:48:49] know we could do a better job than what
we've done so far.
[1:48:52] » So, when is our budgeting committee
meeting occurring that we're
[1:48:56] » fourth fourth Tuesday in September?
>> Fourth Tuesday in September.
[1:49:02] » Fourth Tuesday. Okay. Thank you.
[1:49:10] » I can [snorts] I can add one comment.
Marian, I've met with Gerald or Mr.
[1:49:15] Brown and uh I don't think we either one
of us have uh had any discussion about
[1:49:20] taking away the lazy river.
>> That is good news. [laughter]
[1:49:27] » Thank you.
>> Any other comments for general
[1:49:31] discussion?
>> Alderman Freriedman. Um, as we were
[1:49:35] looking through,
you know, these budgetary items, it came
[1:49:40] to our attention that there is, um, a
lease on the building at Watson Trails
[1:49:47] and the lease was entered into in 2019
for 2 years and it's renewable.
[1:49:55] Um, subsequent to that time, uh, there
was an ordinance passed that any lease
[1:50:02] has to be, um, approved by ordinance,
and this has not come up before the
[1:50:07] board. Um, I I don't know a whole lot
about the lease. It's two pages. It
[1:50:13] doesn't look very leasy. I'm not sure
who signed it and it may be the best
[1:50:20] idea in the world, but I don't think it
it doesn't address the kind of things
[1:50:26] that we saw when we went through the
BMX. Um, so I' I'd like to ask Aaron to
[1:50:34] take a look at the lease and, you know,
I don't know if, you know, I don't know
[1:50:40] whether to put Aaron on it first or have
staff kind of outline to us what's
[1:50:47] really happening behind the lease. Um,
but I think I think it's incumbent on
[1:50:54] us. there's a city asset that's being
leased that I didn't know about and I've
[1:51:01] asked specifically a lot about leases.
So, I I'd like to understand this and if
[1:51:08] we're, you know, and and get it into a
proper
[1:51:14] document that
that um protects the city there. There's
[1:51:20] no cross insurance in it. Um,
[1:51:26] so I'd like to understand that better
and I'd like to direct I don't know if
[1:51:29] the starting point is Aaron looking at
it or if the starting point is staff ex
[1:51:34] you know explaining this you know how
this operates in real in the real world.
[1:51:40] I I can't speak to what happened in
2019. Um but the Open Space Council is a
[1:51:47] nonprofit organization. They have been
renting a room at our park maintenance
[1:51:50] facility since 2019.
We have treated it like a like a room
[1:51:56] rental at the community center. Um, and
I I do understand what the paperwork
[1:52:00] says, but that's that's how it's been
treated historically. We can certainly
[1:52:04] move forward with something more formal.
And at that point, yes, I would
[1:52:07] recommend getting our city attorney
involved.
[1:52:13] » Are you finished?
>> Well, I don't know.
[1:52:15] » Oh, no. I I'm asking, are you finished?
Alderman Freeman,
[1:52:18] » hear what Alderman has to say. Say it
with your big booming voice, Fred.
[1:52:23] » Microphone's still on. Um, we passed an
ordinance on leases
[1:52:30] that the finance committee would review
before the city signed them. And I don't
[1:52:35] know what has happened between 2019 and
today. And I'm not going to try to go
[1:52:39] down that road and point fingers, but I
would like to see the finance committee
[1:52:43] review this lease.
From the financial perspective, yes, but
[1:52:49] also support from the legal having gone
through this prior with BMX as you
[1:52:52] noted. Yeah, certainly to understand
what it is and financially whether it's
[1:52:56] again know our role was to look at it,
make sure it feasibly made sense from
[1:52:59] that and we weren't giving something
away. So, kind of a different lens.
[1:53:03] » Is this an lease that just runs forever
or did it have a termination date on it?
[1:53:07] » I believe it said there was a two-year
option, but it's been just roll. So
[1:53:11] you're you're just handling it like a a
leased room at the community center,
[1:53:15] » a rented room at the community center.
The income goes into community center
[1:53:19] revenue. It is handled exactly like
that. But I it is continuous and it
[1:53:23] would not hurt to have our city attorney
take a look at it. And then yes, it
[1:53:27] would now follow the process of a lease
space which was done after 2019 which is
[1:53:32] why I assume that it did not go through
that process then
[1:53:36] » but it will in the future take care of
that.
[1:53:38] » Yeah. I
>> I would like to make sure they have
[1:53:41] insurance and that, you know, we're
covered if something would happen
[1:53:43] because that's a could be a liability.
>> Okay. If they continue to lease or if
[1:53:48] they're just renting the room like they
do at the community center, do they need
[1:53:52] insurance?
>> If they're renting a room at the
[1:53:54] community center, they do not. But if we
do, if we move forward with a lease in
[1:53:59] our park maintenance building, yes, we
would recommend there would be insurance
[1:54:03] within the lease.
>> Okay, we'll take care of that. Any other
[1:54:07] general discussion items?
[1:54:11] » Somebody just raised their hand.
[laughter]
[1:54:14] » Does anybody else have anything?
>> Alderman Freriedman.
[1:54:16] » Yeah.
Also in the course of uh of looking into
[1:54:22] you know doing due diligence for the
steering committee, I wanted to go back
[1:54:26] and um hear the and review the meetings
for the parks um department and
[1:54:35] the finance department, planning and
zoning, the public works department all
[1:54:41] have meetings that are accessible by
Zoom and they're recorded. And you know,
[1:54:47] last year we had $5.6 million out of $13
million of the city budget spent on
[1:54:54] parks. And there's nothing on they're
not it's not recorded. It's not
[1:55:00] accessible to the public. And [snorts] I
I'd like to um make a motion that moving
[1:55:06] forward all parks and recrecks um
meetings be held with a Zoom option and
[1:55:14] with the meeting recorded so that it is
um available on the website, you know,
[1:55:20] as a matter of transparency like we do
with all of our other committees.
[1:55:25] Alderman Akens.
As a member of the parks committee, I
[1:55:29] just want to say that we often meet at
the parks and we walk through them and I
[1:55:33] think that's a very important thing that
we do and during those meetings I don't
[1:55:38] know how it would be possible to record
those and have a zoom but otherwise when
[1:55:42] we meet here that that makes sense to
>> well the the agenda items can be
[1:55:46] discussed in chambers and then and then
the um and I think it is important for
[1:55:53] the committee members to to walk the
parks But I don't think they're mutually
[1:55:58] exclusive. And for, you know, 42 43% of
our budget to be spent and and we can't
[1:56:09] hear what's going on in that committee.
I think I think we can improve upon
[1:56:13] that. So, I would make a motion that
parks
[1:56:20] conduct meetings that are accessible by
Zoom and um
[1:56:25] uh posted on the web recorded and posted
on the website.
[1:56:29] » Alderman Columbo.
>> So, I'm I'm curious how that works when
[1:56:33] they meet at Minihaha
to to do their meeting and walk.
[1:56:38] » They start their meeting here and then
they go to Minihaha.
[1:56:41] You know, I
>> statistically it doesn't make a lot of
[1:56:44] sense.
>> Well, how often does that happen?
[1:56:47] » Minutes. It's good weather. We a lot in
the summer.
[1:56:50] » Here, the park complex, Minihaha, Watson
Trails,
[1:56:53] » and at the pool,
>> Windstone.
[1:56:56] » Yeah, we really only meet here like in
the winter. And we have meeting minutes
[1:57:01] and I think we're happy to record it
when we're here, but I think the park
[1:57:04] committee being in the parks is very
important
[1:57:06] » and Gerald records the minutes at every
meeting. And we don't
[1:57:10] » I I've just I mean having been on it for
5 years, I don't think you're missing
[1:57:14] anything.
>> Oh, [laughter] I'm missing something.
[1:57:22] » I understand that we go that our
committee goes to parks and wants to
[1:57:26] review maintenance or potential
improvements. That makes a lot of sense.
[1:57:32] But I don't know if you're meeting at a
park in a
[1:57:38] pavilion or whatever, you can certainly
come back and meet here or
[1:57:44] decisions of spending money or proposals
could be then tabled to the next meeting
[1:57:49] when you're in chambers.
We, you know, the logistics of of the
[1:57:55] park. I understand that that's not
something that I have to worry about
[1:58:00] with public works, but that's a logistic
issue that you have to work around in
[1:58:06] order to communicate. We've heard the
word here tonight,
[1:58:11] the word transparency,
that we want a transparent city. Well,
[1:58:18] when it comes to the parks committee,
without the minutes, without recording,
[1:58:24] without anything,
>> we have minutes.
[1:58:26] » There are minutes. Sorry.
>> Well, I'm just saying I'm not seeing I'm
[1:58:31] not seeing the transparency that we have
in other committees
[1:58:35] » and the public is welcome to every
single meeting.
[1:58:38] » Well, Greg, if we made that, then we
don't really need to record public works
[1:58:44] either. They're welcome to every
meeting. I mean, the meetings are open
[1:58:47] to everybody,
>> not public works because they're not
[1:58:50] held in person.
>> So, it would be impossible. And we could
[1:58:53] switch that,
>> of course.
[1:58:55] » How about if at all possible, Mr. Brown,
would this be possible when you have a
[1:58:59] meeting here in the wintertime, you
offer it to Zoom to anyone and then when
[1:59:03] you go out in the field at parks or the
pool advisory or whatever that you just
[1:59:09] say that in the meeting, say we're being
excused now to go look at this park or
[1:59:14] that park or whatever. And I mean I I
was on parks for what 24 years and I
[1:59:21] mean we were always out in the field
looking at things. Mhm.
[1:59:24] » We would maybe discuss things first and
then go out or else go out when the
[1:59:31] light was still the sun was still out
and then come back here and discuss
[1:59:34] things.
But I don't know how you'd run the Zoom.
[1:59:39] Um
>> how can you not
[1:59:41] » because
well with everyone talking how would
[1:59:44] they all have their microphones and
everything?
[1:59:48] » I mean I I think we could do this. I
could record it at a park. I mean I
[1:59:53] don't know about Zoom. I mean, I could
record it and then
[1:59:56] » again, I don't know our system. If I
could put a recording on there from what
[1:59:59] takes place, um the business that we
have like in a shelter,
[2:00:04] I'm guessing.
>> Also wondering how much you're going to
[2:00:07] be able to hear people because often,
you know,
[2:00:09] » yeah, they're not each going to have a
microphone like this.
[2:00:11] » We've got nine microphones here and
there's nine people on parks and Gerald
[2:00:16] could use that microphone. I think we I
and I I think we can do better. And for
[2:00:23] instance, one of the things I wanted to
see was the you know, we had a
[2:00:28] stakeholders meeting and that was the
the parks committee met to review the
[2:00:34] parks master plan. So I went to listen
to the minutes and they they weren't
[2:00:40] there. I read the minutes and the
minutes said that Gary C um I'm sorry,
[2:00:45] Mr. Dunl appeared and made a
presentation. it doesn't reflect any
[2:00:49] discussion that was made or questions or
you know and I think that that would
[2:00:57] have been helpful for me to understand.
So my motion stands.
[2:01:03] [snorts]
>> Okay. And you have um Alderman Akens who
[2:01:07] attend who's on parks and she can
probably answer any question that you
[2:01:12] want to know from the parks meeting.
>> Yes.
[2:01:17] and she's on the steering committee. So,
>> believe it or not, I listen to a lot of
[2:01:24] recordings
and and I can't listen to any of those
[2:01:29] and that is last year it was 42% of our
budget.
[2:01:36] » I would second the motion.
>> Okay, you're seconding the motion for
[2:01:43] Can we repeat the motion? Oh,
>> are you
[2:01:47] » from what we're voting for?
>> You're taking people out of the parks.
[2:01:50] Do you realize that? I just
>> No, I'm What I'm What I'm proposing
[2:01:54] » roll call and people can vote no or vote
yes.
[2:01:57] » Yeah.
>> I'm proposing that the parks committee
[2:02:01] record and give detailed minutes of
their meetings
[2:02:07] moving forward. And I think if that
means that you have to
[2:02:12] we don't have a big city. If you have to
go to a park and then come here to
[2:02:17] actually have your meeting, I don't
think that is a big
[2:02:23] problem.
Is it
[2:02:25] » our part of our meeting
>> from the point of view of people that
[2:02:28] have been serving on it that have that
meet at parks and walk through them
[2:02:32] rather than meet here, hold a meeting,
now leave, go to a park. Do we adjourn
[2:02:37] the meeting? Do we have to come back to
adjourn? I just I think you guys
[2:02:42] » part of our meeting
>> a logistical problem overburdensome and
[2:02:45] you're going to find people don't want
to serve if they have to keep coming
[2:02:48] here instead of being in the parks. So
you're going to probably lose some
[2:02:51] committee members. It would be my guess.
>> And the meeting continues when we're at
[2:02:55] the park, right? We're walking around.
We're looking at things. So it doesn't
[2:02:58] just end
>> not adjourn and then go continue to
[2:03:01] conduct business elsewhere. Alderman
[2:03:06] Fernandez,
>> I just have a logistical legal question.
[2:03:08] So, is it a requirement of the
committees to be recorded or to be or
[2:03:12] open to the public like every other
>> requirement to have minutes post an
[2:03:15] agenda? It is not a requirement to be
recorded.
[2:03:18] » I just thought it was a good practice of
transparency.
[2:03:22] » Me, too.
>> So, how many of us have actually read
[2:03:26] the master plan that we approved?
Have we all read it? And were there
[2:03:32] questions still that needed to be
answered that we now need to think about
[2:03:36] over the next couple of years?
I mean, like our art committee, we have
[2:03:42] anyone's welcome to come. We have the
minutes written down, but there's a lot
[2:03:47] of discussion that I don't even know how
you would put it down and just let
[2:03:51] people hear because a lot of it is and
>> and that's what we record.
[2:03:56] » Okay.
[2:04:04] All right,
>> we have a motion and a second. We have a
[2:04:07] motion and a second. Do you all
understand what you're voting on or do
[2:04:09] you want the motion read?
[2:04:13] » Well, I think Alderman Dos's
interpretation and Alderman Freriedman's
[2:04:18] interpretation are
I'm not clear as to which one I I would
[2:04:23] be voting on.
>> Okay. So, could we have the motion read
[2:04:27] again, Mrs. Stone.
>> Uh, the motion that I wrote down was
[2:04:31] » use your microphone, please.
[2:04:38] » Available via Zoom. That's what I
>> All right. Is that the second?
[2:04:43] » No. No,
>> that that was not the motion.
[2:04:46] » Okay. So the motion was to for their
meetings to be in chambers or in
[2:04:52] chambers or in the meeting place
available via Zoom and with the
[2:04:57] recording posted on on the website as
the other committee [clears throat]
[2:05:03] meetings the the other committee
recordings are posted.
[2:05:11] » Yes.
>> Is that the um motion? That's my
[2:05:16] understanding as well.
>> And you're going to second that. I
[2:05:18] second that.
>> So a motion was made by Alderman
[2:05:20] Friedman, seconded by Alderman Doss.
>> Do we want to do a roll call vote? Let's
[2:05:27] do a roll call vote. Mrs. Stone, please.
[2:05:32] » Nay.
[clears throat]
[2:05:35] » Nay.
[2:05:39] » Nay.
[2:05:42] » Nay.
[2:05:46] Nay.
>> Alderman.
[2:05:50] » Hi.
>> Alderman Friedman.
[2:05:53] » I [snorts] also
[2:06:02] » Okay. Motion fails.
All right. Any other items under general
[2:06:07] discussion?
>> Alderman Fernandez.
[2:06:10] » This is Thank you, Madam Probably out of
order. Um, knowing that that did not
[2:06:16] pass, I would ask though that the
committee does a much deeper thorough
[2:06:20] job on the minutes potentially if that's
been an issue where we can't discern
[2:06:23] some of the information and especially
like presentations and any of the
[2:06:26] dialogue.
>> Yes, I I can cover that.
[2:06:29] » The past I mean Gerald gets the minutes
out the next morning, right? So, they're
[2:06:32] fresh, they're concise, and they're spot
on.
[2:06:35] » I've never read them, so I don't that
should not be an indictment uh at all.
[2:06:38] So, but if if that were an issue or has
been an issue, I would like to see that.
[2:06:42] » Yeah. and I
>> the next day and he asked if there's any
[2:06:46] correction corrections or additions. So
al all
[2:06:51] » I'll just add when we do meet here I am
in favor of recording when we can. I
[2:06:55] just don't want to take the parks
committee out out of the parks
[2:07:00] » and I will add I mean we have had zoom
for several of the meetings over the
[2:07:05] last couple of years. I I mean I know
that but I don't know what the special
[2:07:09] occasion was why we used it but there
were times whether it was the park
[2:07:13] master plan which obviously it wasn't
cuz Kathy would have known but I know
[2:07:17] we've had some. So
that's the case. May I make a motion
[2:07:23] that any um parks meetings that are held
um indoors be available via Zoom and
[2:07:33] recorded and with the recording posted
on the city website.
[2:07:38] » That could work.
>> Can we be specific to here in the
[2:07:42] chamber? We do meet other places that
are indoors that might not you might not
[2:07:45] be able to hear us where we don't have
microphones
[2:07:48] » and we we always record our minutes.
Those can be how do you how do you
[2:07:54] handle that when it's not verbal? It's
just written. So what do we do? How do
[2:07:58] we place that in the public's hands
>> on the website?
[2:08:02] » Posted on the website.
>> So those can be posted
[2:08:06] » and that's the way they're always
>> there. any questions that come up at the
[2:08:09] next meeting then we can rectify it in
some way
[2:08:15] » because we always have we always um do
written minutes there's always someone
[2:08:21] taking minutes
>> so are the meetings that are held
[2:08:26] indoors can they be held somewhere where
we have the zoom capability and or are
[2:08:31] there locations that you go to
>> this is the only room that we have the
[2:08:35] zoom room within um the public works
committee. We typically use a laptop
[2:08:40] which isn't great but we make it work.
But this is the only room that has that
[2:08:44] Zoom room capability.
>> What are we doing for finance?
[2:08:49] » Finance. I'm sorry. Did I say public
works? We're always I apologize. Finance
[2:08:53] is when we're in the public works.
That's why we're in the public works um
[2:08:57] conference room and that's where we use
a laptop which again not not great and I
[2:09:01] know sometimes the the sound isn't great
but we make it work. Um, we don't have
[2:09:06] that capability in other spaces.
[2:09:12] » Did you make a motion?
>> Did you make it?
[2:09:15] » I did.
>> Okay, I'll second her. K.
[2:09:18] » A motion was made by Alderman
Freriedman. Second by Alderman Schwarz.
[2:09:22] And do you want to read that motion
again so everyone knows what they're
[2:09:25] voting on, please? Mrs. Stone
[2:09:34] are In chambers.
>> All right. Roll call vote.
[2:09:39] » That you said in chambers. In chambers.
You
[2:09:41] » didn't say every place. You just said in
chambers.
[2:09:43] » When the meetings are held in the
chambers, they will be recorded and the
[2:09:48] recording will be posted and Zoom
accessible.
[2:09:54] » Roll call vote, please.
[2:09:58] » Alens.
I
[2:10:02] Davis.
>> Hi.
[2:10:06] Hi.
[2:10:09] » Hi.
>> Michael.
[2:10:12] » Hi.
>> Alman Fre,
[2:10:17] » I
[2:10:23] » All right. Any other items under general
discussion? I'm afraid to look over
[2:10:27] here.
[laughter]
[2:10:30] » I'm kidding.
>> No, you're not. That's okay. [laughter]
[2:10:35] » Back to my line.
>> We all have to have a sense of
[2:10:38] » meeting.
>> All right. If not, do I have a motion to
[2:10:41] » We did this.
>> We did.
[2:10:42] » Oh, we did that. Never mind. [laughter]
>> Amended the agenda.
[2:10:47] » It was It was
>> They didn't know if we needed to vote on
[2:10:50] it.
>> It was included in the consent agenda.
[2:10:54] » A motion to adjurnn, please.
>> I make the motion.
[2:10:57] » I'll second. Motion was made by Alderman
Donna, seconded by Alderman Wigle. All
[2:11:02] in favor of adjournment
>> I
[2:11:04] » I
>> have a great evening. We adjourned at
[2:11:06] 811.