1 00:16:57,420 --> 00:17:09,420 I mean, at this time, I'd like to call to order the planning commission meeting of January 12, 2026 for viewers watching at home. Some members of the public may be participating via video conference or teleconference. Please stand and join me in the Pledge of Allegiance. 2 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:46,120 Will the secretary please call the roll? Commissioner Buss? President? Commissioner Lenson is absent. Commissioner McMahon? Here. Vice Chair Kettlehead? Here. Chair Ferris? Here. Tonight, we have with us Deputy Community Development Director Fabiola Saleh Malikar. 3 00:17:46,120 --> 00:17:49,560 Are there any written comments, announcements, or continuances at this time? 4 00:17:51,330 --> 00:17:56,240 Yes, we had a supplemental packet that has been distributed to the commission and 5 00:17:56,240 --> 00:18:06,540 posted containing information related to item number 7-8, the 401-403 Hillcrest development agreement. 6 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:07,320 We 7 00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:48,220 have two extras. 8 00:19:16,700 --> 00:19:17,560 Thank you. 9 00:19:18,100 --> 00:19:19,740 Pardon the pause. 10 00:19:20,700 --> 00:19:22,220 Now's the time for public comments. 11 00:19:22,420 --> 00:19:27,820 At this time, any person may address the commission regarding the city planning matter that is not on the evening's agenda. 12 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:35,180 Should the commission wish to discuss an issue raised by a member of the public, the issue will be referred to staff for scheduling on a future agenda. 13 00:19:35,820 --> 00:19:45,480 Anyone who would like to speak under public comments must fill out a speaker card in Chambers or click request to speak on the agenda to receive instructions before the public comments portion of the agenda is called. 14 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:51,040 Speakers remarks shall be addressed to the commission as a whole, not to any individual commissioner or staff member. 15 00:19:51,420 --> 00:19:57,580 Unless otherwise provided by the commission's speakers are limited to five minutes, the screen will show you the remaining time you have. 16 00:19:57,980 --> 00:19:59,260 Do we have any public comments? 17 00:19:59,620 --> 00:19:59,800 No. 18 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:02,560 No. All right, let's go to the consent calendar. 19 00:20:02,740 --> 00:20:07,320 Next we have the consent calendar for the minutes of November 17, 2026 planning commission meeting. 20 00:20:07,940 --> 00:20:11,740 Do we have any fellow commissioners, have any comments or a motion to approve the consent calendar? 21 00:20:14,180 --> 00:20:15,540 I'll make the motion to approve. 22 00:20:19,100 --> 00:20:21,780 If not, can we prepare for a vote? 23 00:20:22,360 --> 00:20:23,260 Commissioner Buss. 24 00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:24,560 Yes. 25 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:26,000 Commissioner Tyler Kettlehead. 26 00:20:26,460 --> 00:20:26,600 Yes. 27 00:20:27,100 --> 00:20:27,780 Commissioner McMahon. 28 00:20:28,300 --> 00:20:28,440 Yes. 29 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:29,460 Chair Ferris. 30 00:20:29,660 --> 00:20:32,400 Abstain as I was not at the meeting of interest. 31 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:36,880 Motion carries 3031 with commissioner. 32 00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:39,340 I'm sorry, Chair Ferris, abstaining. 33 00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:40,240 Abstain. 34 00:20:40,500 --> 00:20:40,620 Yes. 35 00:20:40,940 --> 00:20:41,200 Excellent. 36 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:46,560 All right. Thank you. Now we'll open the hearing, case 7a. Will the clerk please open the public hearing? 37 00:20:48,180 --> 00:20:53,860 Hearing having been advertised as required by laws hereby open to consider agenda item 7a to consider 38 00:20:53,860 --> 00:20:59,300 a finding that the proposed disposition of city-owned property to the Kineho recreation and park district 39 00:20:59,300 --> 00:21:28,420 of the following parcels APNs 525-0-0-053-115525-0-0-0-0-0-3-195-25-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-6-0-0-85525-0-0-0-0-0-0-6-0-0-95 40 00:21:28,420 --> 00:21:43,820 525-0-060-115-525-0-0-0-025 and 525-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-1-1 through 5 is consistent with the 1045 general plan 41 00:21:43,820 --> 00:21:50,520 pursuant to government code section 6542 and to consider a recommendation to counsel for adoption of an ordinance 42 00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:57,080 are proving development agreement D-A-G-R-2025-70004 establishing. 43 00:21:57,380 --> 00:22:19,560 The city's agreement not to change the existing zoning and general plan designations of the property without the owner's consent for 30 years from the date of execution and find that the project's categorically exempt from the California environmental quality yet pursuant to sections 1-5-061-B3 commonsense exception, 1-5-3-1-2 surplus government property sales and 1-5-3-2-5 transfers. 44 00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:24,560 of ownership of interest of land located at 401403, 45 00:22:25,780 --> 00:22:26,660 West Hill Press Drive, 46 00:22:26,780 --> 00:22:29,820 assessor's parcels numbers as previously stated, 47 00:22:30,120 --> 00:22:32,620 the applicant is the city of thousand notes. 48 00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:35,580 Excellent, thank you very much. 49 00:22:36,140 --> 00:22:37,660 Presenting on behalf of staff, 50 00:22:37,940 --> 00:22:39,320 senior planner, just in Kendall. 51 00:22:40,870 --> 00:22:44,120 Good evening, Chair Ferris, planning commissioners 52 00:22:44,120 --> 00:22:45,140 and members of the public. 53 00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:52,240 Tonight, we are here to present a request from the city related to the sale of land to the 54 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:56,560 Kineho Recreation and Parks District. I am joined by city staff from the Community Development 55 00:22:56,560 --> 00:23:00,900 Department, City Attorney's Office, and City Manager's Office, who are available to answer any 56 00:23:00,900 --> 00:23:02,260 questions the commission may have. 57 00:23:05,350 --> 00:23:10,670 As Laurie just read the request before you this evening is summarized 58 00:23:10,670 --> 00:23:16,490 to find that the project is categorically exempt from CEQA, to find that the proposed disposition 59 00:23:16,490 --> 00:23:33,270 of the city-owned property within specific plan 17 to the Canadian Recreation and Park District or CRPD is consistent with the Thousand Oaks 2045 General Plan and to recommend that the city council adopt an ordinance approving the development agreement. 60 00:23:35,860 --> 00:23:42,620 Provided on your screen is a vicinity map of the area, the specific plan 17 area, and the subject properties 61 00:23:43,460 --> 00:23:47,360 depicting the subject site generally with red asterisks. 62 00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:56,880 The map shown now on your screen provides a closer aerial view of the area with the subject properties 63 00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:03,640 depicted within the red lines. The subject properties are again zoned specific plan 17 64 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:10,400 with a portion of one of the properties noted with a purple star also zoned with the mixed 65 00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:15,200 use overlay zone. Those are existing zoning designations to be clear. 66 00:24:18,620 --> 00:24:20,120 All properties subject 67 00:24:20,120 --> 00:24:26,180 to the potential sale and development agreement are commonly referred to as 401 and 403 West 68 00:24:26,180 --> 00:24:34,660 Hill Crest Drive are designated as being within that specific plan at number 17, which was 69 00:24:34,660 --> 00:24:48,380 Approximately half of the SP-17 area has undergone site improvements, primarily within a 35-acre section of the site that includes development currently occupied by CRPD for its headquarters and the Hillcrest Center for the Arts. 70 00:24:49,020 --> 00:25:01,580 The other 27 of the acres of the site consist of a hill within the northerly and easily portions of the specific plan area just shown, which is more commonly known as fireworks hill. 71 00:25:01,580 --> 00:25:08,830 The land use designations that you see on your screen here, again just being clear, are 72 00:25:08,830 --> 00:25:10,390 the existing designations. 73 00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:18,780 During the negotiation for the sale of the subject properties CRPD requested that the 74 00:25:18,780 --> 00:25:25,080 existing zoning regulations and land use designations just described be preserved in their current 75 00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:25,480 state. 76 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:47,160 As such, development agreement 2025-70004 is proposed to create a binding contract that the city will maintain those existing general planned land use designations and zoning designations as currently adopted and just described for 30 years. 77 00:25:47,160 --> 00:26:03,200 Should any changes to the land use or zoning designations be proposed by the property owner or with the consent of the property owner, the city would consider the proposed project in accordance with the procedures required by state law and the Thousand Oaks municipal code. 78 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:08,860 No physical development or change of use is proposed as part of the subject request. 79 00:26:09,740 --> 00:26:14,060 There is no physical changes, again proposed as part of tonight's request. 80 00:26:14,060 --> 00:26:15,140 The 81 00:26:17,380 --> 00:26:44,080 government code section 65402 requires that any real property disposition be reviewed by the planning commission to confirm that the location purpose and extent of the property disposition is consistent with the general plan staff has compared this proposal to transfer property with the overarching general plan goals and policies, and in this case, more specifically the governance land use chapter and the parks and open space chapters. 82 00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:56,340 On this slide are a list of abbreviated description of the general plan 2045 goals and policies that demonstrate conformance with the proposed disposition and transfer of the subject properties. 83 00:26:56,580 --> 00:27:03,680 The full text of these goals and policies can be seen in tonight's staff report or in the Thousand Oaks General Plan 2045. 84 00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:11,440 accessible at the City website, t-o-a-k-s-t-0-4-5.org. 85 00:27:16,100 --> 00:27:21,440 And so, staff recommendation tonight is to, again, find that the project is categorically 86 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:30,100 exempt from CEQA, to find that the proposed disposition of city-owned property to CRPD of 87 00:27:30,100 --> 00:27:35,760 the subject properties within specific plans 17 is consistent with the general plan, and 88 00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:41,820 to recommend that the City Council adopt an ordinance approving the development agreement. 89 00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:49,540 I just want to note for the record as well that the resolution to be provided for signature 90 00:27:49,540 --> 00:27:55,740 will include the image shown here as the exhibit A mentioned on page one of that document. 91 00:27:59,980 --> 00:28:03,200 That concludes our presentation, staff, is available for any questions. 92 00:28:14,060 --> 00:28:14,660 Yes, 93 00:28:20,580 --> 00:28:29,020 I understand that this is actually a purchase from CRPD and I was curious about the amount that they are paying for the land. 94 00:28:29,020 --> 00:28:29,980 Thank 95 00:28:34,140 --> 00:28:34,580 you, Commissioner. 96 00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:37,800 The total amount of sales is $30.4 million. 97 00:28:38,460 --> 00:28:45,880 Okay, and it's also my understanding that that is going to be put in a pot for the new downtown plants. 98 00:28:46,100 --> 00:28:46,540 Is that correct? 99 00:28:46,900 --> 00:28:49,460 That'll be set aside and reserved earmarked for the downtown. 100 00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:49,840 Correct. 101 00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:51,480 Okay, thank you. 102 00:28:52,940 --> 00:28:54,760 Any comments from other commissioners? 103 00:28:55,900 --> 00:28:58,760 I have a question. 104 00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:02,460 And can you explain to me exempt surplus land? 105 00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:10,300 As I was going through the packet, I didn't really understand, I know that it was designated as that, but I want to understand how that process took place. 106 00:29:10,300 --> 00:29:11,640 I know City Council approved it. 107 00:29:14,300 --> 00:29:15,240 Thank you, Commissioner. 108 00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:18,080 Assistant City Attorney can handle that as well. 109 00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:29,980 Sure, so under state law, before a city can dispose of property, it needs to offer up the property to other agencies. 110 00:29:29,980 --> 00:29:35,960 agencies and affordable housing providers, unless there are certain exceptions that apply. 111 00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:42,720 And for purposes of the discussion this evening, there's an exemption for agency to agency 112 00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:43,260 transfers. 113 00:29:44,180 --> 00:29:51,740 So because it's exempt as an agency to agency transfer, you don't need to go through the 114 00:29:51,740 --> 00:29:57,140 pretty extensive process of making the property available to other agencies and affordable housing 115 00:29:57,140 --> 00:29:57,520 providers. 116 00:29:58,400 --> 00:29:59,840 Okay so it's basically 117 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:25,280 It's a disposition thing. Correct. It's a box that the city needs to check before it can dispose of property, yes. Okay. And is that? Is that? Does that negate a sequel challenge? I know it was listed as one of the three categories or for negate, basically saying that it was not considered a sequel project, but does it automatically negate the exempt surplus automatically negate the sequel challenge? 118 00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:35,460 So there are separate things, but you will note that one of the sequa exemptions is for a transfer of surplus property. 119 00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:43,160 So that's a little different than the surplus lands act, but that is a basis for a sequa exemption, a category of exemption. 120 00:30:43,540 --> 00:30:44,240 Okay, okay. 121 00:30:47,930 --> 00:30:48,470 Any other questions? 122 00:30:49,390 --> 00:30:50,190 Yeah, please go ahead. 123 00:30:51,230 --> 00:31:00,530 So, kind of in that same vein in terms of dealing kind of with the sequestive, I want to know, what if any preservation alternatives or 124 00:31:00,530 --> 00:31:06,670 preservation measures like a preservation easement have been considered due to the building's landmark status? 125 00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:14,160 I'm sorry, could you repeat that question? 126 00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:20,080 Basically, I'm just trying to find out, was anything in the discussions that you guys had? 127 00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:24,740 Were there any discussions about because this has been landmarked by the city twice? 128 00:31:24,740 --> 00:31:30,180 I guess the buildings have been landmarked as well as some of the periphery of trees, I think. 129 00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:39,500 Did any of those measures consider, have you considered any kind of because of landmark status? 130 00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:42,320 And I realize that there's no development that's being proposed. 131 00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:42,960 I get that. 132 00:31:44,460 --> 00:31:51,700 But in terms of down the road, I mean, is there anything that is being done to preserve a preservation 133 00:31:51,700 --> 00:31:54,180 easement or something like that with respect to the landmark status? 134 00:31:54,180 --> 00:31:56,480 Were any of those things part of your discussions? 135 00:32:01,740 --> 00:32:09,100 No, because there's no development of any kind or changes to the regulatory framework 136 00:32:09,100 --> 00:32:16,060 for these properties of any kind proposed, that is not part of what was the husband discussed. 137 00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:22,400 Should anything related to changing either the regulatory framework or the uses allowed 138 00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:26,940 about or physical development within this property area be proposed. 139 00:32:27,980 --> 00:32:35,280 Any impacts to landmark status or anything else would be reviewed as required at that time. 140 00:32:40,060 --> 00:32:46,620 I was just going to add that if there was any discussion about altering a landmark, 141 00:32:46,980 --> 00:32:52,940 there's additional provisions in the municipal code that would require an additional certificate of appropriateness. 142 00:32:52,940 --> 00:32:57,620 That would be approved by the city for any changes. 143 00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:01,500 Any other questions? 144 00:33:01,780 --> 00:33:02,440 Nope, any? 145 00:33:03,260 --> 00:33:07,380 I did want to follow up a little bit on the aspect of the landmark status. 146 00:33:07,780 --> 00:33:13,000 So, and especially as it relates to what we have in front of us, which is general plan consistency finding. 147 00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:21,880 So, we did talk about it, can we confirm that the 401 Hillcrest building is in fact identified as a city landmark? 148 00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:26,320 by the Cultural Heritage Board is in our general plan as a city landmark. 149 00:33:26,940 --> 00:33:27,340 Is that correct? 150 00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:29,260 Yes. 151 00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:29,900 Okay. 152 00:33:31,300 --> 00:33:37,820 And in our conservation element, there's actually a goal and policy. 153 00:33:39,630 --> 00:33:47,120 Goal C-11 is to protect historical and culturally significant resources which contribute to the community sense of identity. 154 00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:54,920 Policy 11.7 is talked about resource stakeholder engagement, decisions pertaining to the disposition 155 00:33:55,420 --> 00:34:02,720 of archeological, paleontagial, paleontological, historical and cultural resources shall 156 00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:06,100 be made in concert with recognized public agencies, groups or individuals having 157 00:34:06,100 --> 00:34:08,980 jurisdiction, expertise or interest in these matters. 158 00:34:09,660 --> 00:34:14,500 And my question is, is that, wouldn't it be, especially given that we are asking about 159 00:34:14,500 --> 00:34:25,360 that disposition of historical resources should not we make a finding that such disposition is in fact consistent with this policy of the general plan. 160 00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:37,260 Yes, so what's being asked of the planning commission tonight is twofold, right? 161 00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:44,440 One is to evaluate the proposed development agreement and make a recommendation to the city council on that. 162 00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:54,100 The second item, which I think is what you're getting at, is that the Planning Commission is asked to make a finding that the project is consistent with the general plan. 163 00:34:55,260 --> 00:35:06,700 And what is in the proposed resolution are several policies and goals of the general plan to identify that yes, this project is consistent with that. 164 00:35:06,700 --> 00:35:15,640 I agree with you that what you just mentioned is, does also make it consistent with the general plan. 165 00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:22,220 I don't believe that it would be that were required to include another goal in there. 166 00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:31,380 I think the proposed resolution has enough in it to establish that the project is consistent. 167 00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:47,020 If I understand that view point, the one thing I would want to make sure of is what can we do at the commission level to ensure that there is an over recognition that there is a city landmark on this property? 168 00:35:47,380 --> 00:35:57,160 Because when people go back to these sort of, you know, resolutions and understandings of what was there, if it's not there, the people later on don't know that it's there. 169 00:35:57,160 --> 00:36:02,020 And I think it's just critical that we highlight that, especially given that it is designated 170 00:36:02,020 --> 00:36:04,220 in our general plan as a City Landmark. 171 00:36:04,780 --> 00:36:11,640 My question would be, what can we do to highlight that as part of it, if not change the findings 172 00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:12,940 or resolutions to do that. 173 00:36:13,220 --> 00:36:18,520 So as we're going along and gaining more testimony, I would like to see what is possible. 174 00:36:20,780 --> 00:36:24,600 Any other questions of the commission, staff? 175 00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:26,040 Okay. 176 00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:26,280 Great. 177 00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:44,520 Let's now we will go to public comments, we actually do have two public speakers, each speaker will get five minutes, and if you could state your name and city residents, first will be Marsha Boy, 178 00:36:45,720 --> 00:36:49,000 Well, by William Able, you could come down. 179 00:36:53,710 --> 00:36:58,850 Generally, we need to have you on the mic so that we're able to have it on the broadcast. 180 00:37:01,450 --> 00:37:04,210 Is it possible do we have a wireless mic? 181 00:37:04,330 --> 00:37:07,010 Is there something that we could potentially accommodate? 182 00:37:23,380 --> 00:37:24,040 Thank you. 183 00:37:24,380 --> 00:37:30,640 I'm Mercy Boy, I live over an open all, and I didn't know anything about this project until we received a letter a couple of weeks ago. 184 00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:34,960 So I came here tonight because I was curious at what was going on. 185 00:37:35,300 --> 00:37:37,680 I'm very impressed with what I found out. 186 00:37:38,180 --> 00:37:39,480 I do have a couple of questions. 187 00:37:40,020 --> 00:37:42,460 One is, are my taxes involved? 188 00:37:42,980 --> 00:37:50,220 We're going from the recreation, which is ours, to the city, which is ours. 189 00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:53,220 How does that transfer $30 million? 190 00:37:53,220 --> 00:38:01,720 dollars. I don't understand though. Is it a bond that you give to each other or what do you do? 191 00:38:05,070 --> 00:38:09,250 Staff can probably answer that at some point after the comments. 192 00:38:12,550 --> 00:38:16,630 Nobody knows how to handle the money. We'll answer your questions at the end. 193 00:38:17,390 --> 00:38:20,550 We'll answer all your questions at the after your comments are concluded. 194 00:38:20,550 --> 00:38:26,590 Okay, and it's hard for me to tell what the pictures are up there. 195 00:38:27,090 --> 00:38:33,150 I'm assuming that they want to buy the open space and their own property. 196 00:38:33,550 --> 00:38:37,290 They're not interested in all the commercial stuff that's over there off Wilmer. 197 00:38:37,970 --> 00:38:39,510 Okay, because that was a confusion. 198 00:38:39,890 --> 00:38:41,230 Thank you, I'm very impressed. 199 00:38:41,770 --> 00:38:42,410 I thank you. 200 00:38:44,870 --> 00:38:46,210 Next is William Maple. 201 00:38:54,410 --> 00:39:03,330 William April, resident, Newbury Park, Good evening planners, Inc. missioners, before you 202 00:39:03,330 --> 00:39:11,290 tonight, does history matter? And you sure wouldn't think so if you look at our city's 203 00:39:11,290 --> 00:39:15,910 website, they've taken down all the list of our landmarks. You won't find that on there 204 00:39:15,910 --> 00:39:21,170 anymore. And you won't hear it in the appraisal discussion or much that's coming before you 205 00:39:21,170 --> 00:39:25,910 right now. You know, history doesn't seem to be part of it. Landmark is rarely mentioned 206 00:39:25,910 --> 00:39:30,290 in any of the documents. It won't specify what area is a landmark. 207 00:39:33,450 --> 00:39:39,490 You also, if you wanted to attend a public cultural heritage board meeting, one hasn't 208 00:39:39,490 --> 00:39:45,050 happened in 20 years. We don't have public hearings. And that should have happened before 209 00:39:45,050 --> 00:39:46,930 tonight about this building. 210 00:39:50,810 --> 00:39:56,030 That's kind of a dereliction of duty. Why am I here? I have 211 00:39:56,030 --> 00:40:02,550 an amazing view of Fireworks Hill and the Civic Arts Plaza for my front yard. The old 212 00:40:02,550 --> 00:40:06,310 city hall, I used to mow my lawn and look at this strange building, didn't know what it was, 213 00:40:07,110 --> 00:40:14,710 went over there and found it abandoned. I mean, there were trees through the windows, ramps for 214 00:40:14,710 --> 00:40:21,050 middle beer and couches and everything. I made a professional video at the time and 215 00:40:21,050 --> 00:40:26,930 brought it in and presented it right here on this board. Probably 29 years ago it took two 216 00:40:26,930 --> 00:40:33,430 years to fight to make it a landmark. We're fighting City Hall to preserve the first built city all. 217 00:40:34,030 --> 00:40:41,930 Not a fun process by any means, but the city residents won and they preserved it and it's something 218 00:40:41,930 --> 00:40:47,870 important to be able to compare where we were and what we thought was important to where 219 00:40:47,870 --> 00:40:50,970 we are now and what we're funding and how we're funding it. 220 00:40:51,550 --> 00:40:53,190 So that building was a million dollars. 221 00:40:53,410 --> 00:40:58,530 It was paid for right off, you know, as it was done and CRPD paid half of that. 222 00:40:59,370 --> 00:41:03,650 So it's amazing to tell that a lot of people and you don't see it, you know, explained 223 00:41:03,650 --> 00:41:04,850 on the building there. 224 00:41:06,070 --> 00:41:22,230 I developed museum exhibits within landmark buildings throughout the country for 40 plus years working through national park service, bureau land management, lots and lots of laws and regulations of what I can do where and how in these buildings. 225 00:41:22,230 --> 00:41:28,690 So I have a sense of what you should be doing and I have also served on the cultural heritage 226 00:41:28,690 --> 00:41:31,770 board for the county where they really take their meeting serious. 227 00:41:32,270 --> 00:41:38,810 They know their staff, you know, they love their community and they fight to preserve what 228 00:41:38,810 --> 00:41:47,150 separates them from the strip of 101 that's generic, you know, what makes Canadian, a Canadian 229 00:41:47,150 --> 00:41:50,410 of Alley unique, and they're proactive. 230 00:41:50,750 --> 00:41:52,370 Before something's in jeopardy 231 00:41:52,370 --> 00:41:55,950 and about to be torn down or in neglect, they act. 232 00:41:56,370 --> 00:41:58,570 They have meetings and they proactively list 233 00:41:58,570 --> 00:42:00,950 what's important and we go out and research it. 234 00:42:01,470 --> 00:42:05,890 Using the criteria of the SQL to evaluate that. 235 00:42:06,650 --> 00:42:08,970 So what are landmarks? 236 00:42:09,650 --> 00:42:10,870 It's not just something old. 237 00:42:11,130 --> 00:42:12,990 50 years old is kind of a benchmark, 238 00:42:12,990 --> 00:42:18,650 Mark, but also did any significant events happen at that site? 239 00:42:19,030 --> 00:42:20,470 You know, was it a unique structure? 240 00:42:21,150 --> 00:42:25,850 Did any personality or person of the community do something there? 241 00:42:26,310 --> 00:42:28,570 This building met all of that criteria. 242 00:42:28,770 --> 00:42:31,330 It was a unanimous yes vote to make it a landmark. 243 00:42:31,950 --> 00:42:36,290 And there are many in the ad hoc committee that adverts cereal. 244 00:42:36,510 --> 00:42:38,930 They want the money with that site. 245 00:42:39,330 --> 00:42:42,350 You know, they want to develop this place with that money. 246 00:42:42,350 --> 00:42:45,530 And so we're repeating history in a way. 247 00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:50,950 The landmark has namesake trees on it and other elements. 248 00:42:51,250 --> 00:42:54,270 There are two POW trees that were dedicated at the time. 249 00:42:54,270 --> 00:42:56,670 One died because the building was neglected. 250 00:42:57,190 --> 00:42:59,810 It was supposed to be taken care of while it was abandoned. 251 00:43:00,590 --> 00:43:04,950 And I would argue that that was abandoned for demolition by neglect. 252 00:43:05,990 --> 00:43:12,330 That you get an estimate you find out while it's going to cost more to fix this building than to just outright level it. 253 00:43:12,330 --> 00:43:15,470 and sell it, and thankfully they didn't go that way. 254 00:43:17,770 --> 00:43:24,370 With all that said, I believe the selling of this landmark to our park and wreck department 255 00:43:24,370 --> 00:43:25,710 is an amazing idea. 256 00:43:25,910 --> 00:43:30,150 It takes off so many wonderful bits of criteria, serves the public. 257 00:43:31,070 --> 00:43:37,790 It's a unique foundational moment where everyone wins, but I argue with a price tag. 258 00:43:37,790 --> 00:43:44,750 you know, if the land was donated and it was by the Jantz family for free, why would you charge 259 00:43:44,750 --> 00:43:50,030 for it? You know, that's if I gave my son, you know, a car I worked on for 50 years and he 260 00:43:50,030 --> 00:43:57,170 sold it. You know, it was a gift, you know, it's just crazy in that you're selling it to another 261 00:43:57,170 --> 00:44:04,710 community entity that's serving us. They also donated half the funds to build it. So I really argue 262 00:44:04,710 --> 00:44:19,670 the $30 million is way overpriced today, I would please consider having a cultural heritage board meeting for the public before any more decisions are made and charging a lot less for that property, thank you. 263 00:44:20,050 --> 00:44:31,030 Mr. Maple, actually, if you could say I did have some additional questions for you, so first of all, I'm just going to say you and I, we've talked over the years, I just want thank you for your service. 264 00:44:32,230 --> 00:44:38,130 especially in this particular area of really preserving the history of the city and how you've been involved in it. 265 00:44:38,470 --> 00:44:43,290 So you were describing kind of the effort to preserve 401 Hillcrest as a city landmark and 266 00:44:43,290 --> 00:44:50,130 the Culture Heritage Board resolution described some of the specific elements that were important. 267 00:44:50,250 --> 00:44:51,190 I'm just going to read them off. 268 00:44:51,290 --> 00:44:55,390 Can you opine maybe a little bit about what then after I read them off here? 269 00:44:55,430 --> 00:44:59,890 It just says that the designation historical landmark status shall apply to the exterior. 270 00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:29,580 Superior walls, facades an architectural style of the existing civic center buildings, modification of the interior of the two buildings are appropriate as long as the modifications do not affect the architectural style of the civic center. And future modifications in addition to the exterior of the civic center buildings are appropriate as long as they are architecturally compatible there by preserving the design integrity of the original structures. Can you open us a why those particular things were called out for this particular building? 271 00:45:29,580 --> 00:45:37,260 And I may preservation snob, you know, it's like rebuilding a car, you know, a historic car. 272 00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:38,800 You put the proper parts on it. 273 00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:39,280 You do that. 274 00:45:39,700 --> 00:45:42,640 I would have had a fit about the elevators, you know. 275 00:45:42,720 --> 00:45:47,480 There's a lot of ways, a grandfather, how that's done rather than break the horizontal line. 276 00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:49,680 It was so critical to the design. 277 00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:55,820 The design had parking on the roof so that 70% of the open space could be viewed, could be 278 00:45:55,820 --> 00:46:01,000 left that way because that's how it was a metaphor for how they saw this community being developed. 279 00:46:01,420 --> 00:46:07,360 What you do inside wasn't all that unique, and Lord, thank you that it was a concrete building. 280 00:46:07,580 --> 00:46:12,200 You couldn't destroy it more than what it was in the years and years that it was abandoned. 281 00:46:13,020 --> 00:46:17,600 One of the POW trees died and unfortunately that gentleman did die. 282 00:46:18,140 --> 00:46:20,580 One of them is preserved and still standing today. 283 00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:22,540 I would like to see better plaques up there. 284 00:46:22,540 --> 00:46:34,280 The woman who was, I'm sorry, not knowing her name right off hand, was instrumental in naming the city thousand oaks her trees up there, you know, the events that happened, you know, what, what was it? 285 00:46:34,620 --> 00:46:45,920 The decisions made, all of the people who stood like tonight in that room, you know, shaping what our community would look like, where we'd go from here, took place in that council chambers. 286 00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:49,140 It should be preserved so that you can compare and contrast. 287 00:46:49,580 --> 00:46:54,720 This is what we thought was important for this community, how we saw open space, how 288 00:46:54,720 --> 00:46:59,620 we saw development compared to the density and the money that's spent at this site. 289 00:47:00,300 --> 00:47:07,840 You know, you don't know that this is odd if you don't look at what we were and that's 290 00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:08,620 what I'm hoping to preserve. 291 00:47:08,820 --> 00:47:14,460 And the open space around it, I would argue, is instrumental to why it was chosen out 292 00:47:14,460 --> 00:47:24,060 54 different architectural competition boards that fill the entire gym at the Thousand Oak City Hall. 293 00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:33,040 You know, and Yale Harvard architect, you know, we're looking through all these and pick this unique design of the environmental movement of that time. 294 00:47:33,500 --> 00:47:40,780 This is the only one around here. Think of all Ventura County or even Southern California. How many buildings can you name that are similar to that? 295 00:47:40,780 --> 00:47:48,660 Maybe the GT building, I don't know what it is now, you know, backster, but, you know, they probably stole that design and made movies within that, too. 296 00:47:49,220 --> 00:47:55,860 So preserving the outside, but I think just as important as our community finds all our open space critical. 297 00:47:56,140 --> 00:48:02,480 I think all the land around that, especially the view shed of looking at the community because the windows were out here. 298 00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:10,160 When you were serving behind that board, you would look at the community and anticipate how would my vote 299 00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:12,780 to impact what I'm seeing outside there. 300 00:48:12,980 --> 00:48:17,100 And that was part of the design element, sorry, run off. 301 00:48:17,300 --> 00:48:17,980 No, thank you. 302 00:48:18,140 --> 00:48:19,240 Is there any other questions? 303 00:48:20,140 --> 00:48:20,920 Vice Chair, Tyler. 304 00:48:21,160 --> 00:48:22,700 Just a quick question. 305 00:48:22,940 --> 00:48:27,140 So as I understand, as you've described it, landmark status isn't just for 306 00:48:27,140 --> 00:48:28,900 architecturally significant properties. 307 00:48:28,900 --> 00:48:31,840 It also relates to the cultural resources, is that correct? 308 00:48:32,760 --> 00:48:35,300 It does, but it depends on who your board is. 309 00:48:35,580 --> 00:48:39,280 Unfortunately, our city council is our cultural heritage board. 310 00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:47,800 And their training and expertise on CEQA preservation standards is not top of the line. 311 00:48:48,120 --> 00:48:49,100 Okay, thank you. 312 00:48:49,780 --> 00:48:50,940 Thanks, any other question? 313 00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:52,560 No, thank you. 314 00:48:53,460 --> 00:49:00,220 And we do have from the Park District, Jim Friedle, for questions only, does there are any questions 315 00:49:00,220 --> 00:49:00,820 that you had? 316 00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:05,180 I was wondering if you'd be willing to come up, I did have a quick question. 317 00:49:05,300 --> 00:49:07,400 You just name a city residence if you're okay. 318 00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:14,080 Yeah, hi, I'm Jim Friedle. I'm the general manager of the Canadian Reckon Park District and actually having heard some 319 00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:18,380 Comments I wouldn't mind making a few of my own after your questions or well 320 00:49:18,380 --> 00:49:26,540 I think the main question is just we've had a significant discussion about the building itself being a city landmark and and such and some of the additional 321 00:49:26,540 --> 00:49:33,480 Restrictions that might be on it if if there's ever a time in which the park district would want to see or make any modification 322 00:49:33,480 --> 00:49:36,960 Are you do you recognize that and that's a one of the things? 323 00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:38,100 I mean, are you aware of that? 324 00:49:38,240 --> 00:49:38,620 I guess I see. 325 00:49:38,640 --> 00:49:45,840 Yeah, we're aware of the city having considered and made a designation about the historical status 326 00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:46,280 of the structure. 327 00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:47,260 We're aware of that. 328 00:49:47,580 --> 00:49:47,640 Okay. 329 00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:53,860 In fact, one of the things I was going to share is that part of our responsibility and 330 00:49:53,860 --> 00:49:57,220 job in the community is, you know, parks, rec, and open space. 331 00:49:57,220 --> 00:49:58,300 That's our primary mission. 332 00:49:58,520 --> 00:50:05,120 But in that mission, we now are the stewards of the McCray Ranch, which has the oldest structure 333 00:50:05,120 --> 00:50:10,540 in all of Thousand Oaks, actually Crowley House is the oldest structure in all of Thousand Oaks. 334 00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:11,280 That's ours too. 335 00:50:11,960 --> 00:50:15,180 That's 1910 McCray Ranch has a 1925 building. 336 00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:21,200 And then the Stagecoach Inn, of course, our Canoe Valley Historic Society is in our building there at the Stagecoach Inn. 337 00:50:21,420 --> 00:50:31,940 So that's part of our DNA is protecting and preserving our history, our local heritage, and our historical assets. 338 00:50:31,940 --> 00:51:01,640 That's when it comes to 401403, I can tell you that the price tag will prohibit us from considering any kind of improvements or modifications for many, many, many years to come so you don't have to be worried that we might have some designs on changing anything because it is a big lift for us, but we're prepared to make that and we're happy to do that because of how important this whole property is to the future of the city from the park and wreck perspective and what I do want to share is 339 00:51:01,640 --> 00:51:06,480 As we look at the areas of opportunity as the city 340 00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:12,940 referred to them throughout the general pran process, we know there is going to be a lot more multi-family mixed-use housing 341 00:51:12,940 --> 00:51:18,520 in areas that it wasn't originally considered when the city thought of the city. 342 00:51:19,380 --> 00:51:23,020 You know, we separated land uses and I think mixed use is actually the way to go. 343 00:51:23,020 --> 00:51:28,800 It's how a lot of communities are, but now that we are going there, we need to provide park land space 344 00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:31,720 in close geographic proximity to where people will live. 345 00:51:32,820 --> 00:51:39,560 So the 68ers that make up the hill are really important to us, 346 00:51:39,560 --> 00:51:42,640 and more importantly to all the residents existing there, 347 00:51:42,860 --> 00:51:47,900 but all of the literally thousands of units that could be built right next to 348 00:51:47,900 --> 00:51:51,360 there in a short half a mile walking distance to the property. 349 00:51:51,880 --> 00:51:55,220 So that was our thinking not what might we do to change the buildings. 350 00:51:55,240 --> 00:51:58,500 In fact, again, we don't have the money to change 351 00:51:58,500 --> 00:52:25,340 change the buildings, but we want to stay there just how it is and how we've been there for the last 25 years with the license with the city but looking just as we're thinking and of course I have a board to respond to and we're going to go ask the whole community what they think but we have some ideas of just basically activating the old National Park Service 401 building with very comparable similar community use probably some reservable big community meeting rooms. 352 00:52:25,340 --> 00:52:37,440 Because we might move some of our recunits into that building that are too cramped in other locations but we don't see any notable physical changes and frankly don't have any. 353 00:52:38,080 --> 00:52:46,700 But I want to say one of the things and the reason you're getting a DA in front of you is because we are going to have to borrow money. 354 00:52:46,840 --> 00:52:51,440 There's a cash and financing and it's all spelled out in a staff report that we're doing for our board. 355 00:52:51,440 --> 00:53:17,500 So it's online now at our website, but I mentioned, because somebody had brought up the tax question, so we're two totally separate entities, city of 1000 Oaks and CRPD, we have, our income is primarily six cents of the property tax dollar you pay, so think about your home and how much you're paying in property taxes, we get about six cents of that property tax dollar. 356 00:53:17,500 --> 00:53:21,040 And we do the park system that we do. 357 00:53:21,280 --> 00:53:25,960 But one of the other things we get are developer fees when the developers build. 358 00:53:26,140 --> 00:53:31,020 So we get about $12,800 a unit for every unit that's built. 359 00:53:31,720 --> 00:53:36,880 So if you imagine 2,000 units happening between the Oaks and the Jansk Marketplace. 360 00:53:37,260 --> 00:53:39,420 You got $24 million right there. 361 00:53:39,780 --> 00:53:44,500 That helps pay for the loan that we have on the property. 362 00:53:44,980 --> 00:53:48,880 and the improvements to the park space that we can imagine. 363 00:53:49,320 --> 00:53:52,780 If you haven't been to the top of fireworks hill, walk up there right now. 364 00:53:52,860 --> 00:53:56,660 If you're listening to my voice, go check out the top of fireworks hill if you've never done it. 365 00:53:56,740 --> 00:53:59,720 The view is just bonkers, it is spectacular. 366 00:54:00,620 --> 00:54:07,320 And in the current plans, the current specific plan 17, the general plan, 367 00:54:07,520 --> 00:54:09,740 it has been envisioned for a park up there. 368 00:54:10,020 --> 00:54:13,940 So yeah, we probably aren't going to be driving cars up to the top of the hill, 369 00:54:13,940 --> 00:54:22,620 but there are improvements that can make it more people-friendly up top and pathways to get there that kind of thing, and that's our business, park and 370 00:54:22,620 --> 00:54:28,840 rec improvements, and so that is the change we do want to make on the hill, and that'll go through a permit process, and that kind of thing in a 371 00:54:28,840 --> 00:54:39,860 public input process. But we're really stoked, no taxes, your taxes aren't changing, we're not asking for a revenue measure, or anything like that. 372 00:54:39,860 --> 00:55:03,300 So, we have saved up over the years for certain capital acquisitions, and so that is part of the pot of the money and the other will be, so it's about 15 of cash that we have saved up for this very thing, property acquisition and improvement, and the other will come, you know, we'll get it immediately from some sort of, you know, loan of some kind. 373 00:55:03,860 --> 00:55:15,420 But we hope that as projects do get approved nearby, the oak's chance, that kind of thing that will be able to allocate some of those developer fees toward that and pay off that loan faster. 374 00:55:16,020 --> 00:55:22,520 I think I touched on everything I heard and wanted to talk about, but happy to answer any other questions as well. 375 00:55:22,760 --> 00:55:26,800 And because I might not get another chance, I really wanted to thank staff. 376 00:55:27,740 --> 00:55:48,540 Akbar and the team and the city manager's office, of course, and the planning staff, everybody that has been involved, City Attorney's Office, it's really great to work with partners like the City of Thousand Oaks, and if I had to say, you know, the city is kind of really going for the future with the downtown master plan, they're working towards our future, right? 377 00:55:49,360 --> 00:55:52,640 And we're kind of respecting and preserving the past. 378 00:55:52,640 --> 00:56:07,160 I think that those two things are really important together and I just think all of this at the end of the day will be looked at as a win-win-win-win, especially 20 years from now when the loans have been paid off and it's there, it'll be a stretch for the first few years here for us, but 379 00:56:08,360 --> 00:56:22,140 you know, what the city is going to do here, there's some park like amenities going in that we wouldn't ever be able to afford to do that they're planning on doing, which we're really excited about, so to the extent some of our money is allocated to that kind of thing, great. 380 00:56:23,280 --> 00:56:24,580 Yeah, thanks. 381 00:56:24,800 --> 00:56:27,780 I was going to say, you probably got more than five minutes. 382 00:56:27,940 --> 00:56:30,580 That's the sneaky way to get more of it. 383 00:56:30,580 --> 00:56:31,120 No, no, no, no. 384 00:56:31,120 --> 00:56:32,100 I just want to work with it. 385 00:56:32,120 --> 00:56:33,460 It's actually, but it's perfect. 386 00:56:33,640 --> 00:56:35,240 Honestly, this is a great discussion. 387 00:56:35,420 --> 00:56:38,980 I'm glad to hear your points of view about what to do. 388 00:56:39,060 --> 00:56:42,360 I'm assuming that you've, I mean, you're not the applicant 389 00:56:42,360 --> 00:56:45,040 or anything like that, but I'm assuming the terms under which 390 00:56:45,040 --> 00:56:47,720 all of this is happening through the DA and the resolution 391 00:56:47,720 --> 00:56:51,040 are probably in line with what the park district is. 392 00:56:51,040 --> 00:56:56,820 Yes, yes, yeah, we've had a chance to literally negotiate it the development agreement is actually a vehicle 393 00:56:57,520 --> 00:57:03,780 Only to be used if things don't go according to plan right like we're using it almost in the opposite way a developer would use it 394 00:57:03,780 --> 00:57:08,120 Developer does hey, I got this plan. I want to build some Mars is if everything goes wrong 395 00:57:08,580 --> 00:57:13,480 And we have to do a financial bailout and literally sell you know sell the farm 396 00:57:13,480 --> 00:57:15,060 That's the farm we're selling 397 00:57:15,860 --> 00:57:45,040 I don't know what would be really clear like, I don't want the discussion we've got here isn't to get in the way of anything that we've done there, but we have recognize there is a city landmark if the staff is able to come up with language just to heighten the recognition of it, but does not get in the way of that, is that, is that something I mean, I don't know that I'd want to add any additional limitations or restrictions, but we're aware of the ones that are there and it has landmark status, I believe that was called by the city's landmark status and so we're very comfortable with it. 398 00:57:45,040 --> 00:57:50,240 But I don't have authority to, and it's not something negotiated or anything. 399 00:57:50,520 --> 00:57:55,360 What we do understand, there's a historical nature to it, and I've talked to Mr. 400 00:57:55,580 --> 00:58:00,140 Maple over the years, we get it, and I've stood in his front yard too, and it's a magnificent view of the health. 401 00:58:01,740 --> 00:58:02,940 Okay, perfect, thank you. 402 00:58:03,120 --> 00:58:06,120 Are there any questions, Secretary, Commissioner Buss? 403 00:58:06,980 --> 00:58:12,440 I'm not sure, Jim or staff, can someone speak to how the property was valued? 404 00:58:13,000 --> 00:58:15,200 like how we came up with the- 405 00:58:15,200 --> 00:58:16,260 Do you want to do it? 406 00:58:18,220 --> 00:58:19,520 I didn't appraisal. 407 00:58:22,640 --> 00:58:27,440 So yes, Mr. Friedle's correct, we both agencies independently conducted their own appraisals. 408 00:58:28,400 --> 00:58:33,080 Myself and our finance director, Jamie Boscarino, met with Mr. Mooney, Mr. Friedle back in October. 409 00:58:33,200 --> 00:58:41,240 We compared notes and where we landed was essentially kind of the fair market value that was assigned by both appraisals. 410 00:58:41,240 --> 00:58:48,720 I had a Venn diagram and there was a place where we both met so it made actually it ended up being pretty easy that way. 411 00:58:49,840 --> 00:59:00,640 And do you have any idea if the property were to be put, and you said fair market value so you're saying that you're confident that that property was sell to a developer for 30 million. 412 00:59:01,500 --> 00:59:01,920 Correct. 413 00:59:02,600 --> 00:59:05,500 Under the existing land use designations, correct? 414 00:59:05,500 --> 00:59:06,480 I 415 00:59:08,500 --> 00:59:36,620 just, one way we've looked at it, just because I, as residents, I think you guys have a lot of interest and as planning commissioners you have a ton of interest in the economics of all of it as well and one of the way we viewed it is we definitely were looking to add square footage for community indoor community center space and we've been researching it and it's a, it's a, it's a thousand bucks a foot to build new construction. 416 00:59:36,620 --> 00:59:39,840 in government level quality buildings. 417 00:59:40,700 --> 00:59:43,920 So we're getting 55,000 square feet here. 418 00:59:44,520 --> 00:59:48,600 I don't want to say we got a good deal, but I feel like we got a good deal, a fair deal. 419 00:59:52,540 --> 00:59:54,780 Any other questions, comments? 420 00:59:55,360 --> 00:59:57,240 Thanks so much, appreciate it. 421 00:59:58,100 --> 00:59:59,800 And that is it. 422 01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:05,600 For the public comments, we now go back to staff for follow-up comments. 423 01:00:11,020 --> 01:00:33,080 I think Mr. Prudle really said everything that I was going to cover. I would just like to re-emphasize that any proposal for anything in the future would have to go through the proper procedures to get that certificate of appropriateness if any changes were to be proposed to the façade or any of the other protected or designated elements of the site. 424 01:00:33,080 --> 01:00:38,900 And, of course, be reviewed for conformance with CEQA and consistency with the general plan, 425 01:00:38,900 --> 01:00:46,040 which again, as you noted, calls out this area as a landmark, so just want to re-emphasize 426 01:00:46,040 --> 01:00:51,440 that all of those protections that are in place today remain in place and are completely unchanged 427 01:00:51,440 --> 01:00:54,360 from whatever the procedure is now would remain the same. 428 01:00:56,220 --> 01:00:58,380 Any questions of staff? 429 01:01:01,400 --> 01:01:12,660 I just want to, is there any ideas from staff about somehow identifying in the youth and in the resolution to at least heighten the fact that there is a city landmark on here? 430 01:01:13,040 --> 01:01:22,840 I'm not going to press so much on it, but I do look at this policy and when it says decisions pertaining to the disposition of historical resources, 431 01:01:23,680 --> 01:01:29,840 shall be made in concert with these and we're not recognizing that as a policy that we are 432 01:01:31,380 --> 01:01:34,460 agreeing to say this disposition is consistent with. 433 01:01:35,640 --> 01:01:40,200 Is there any way we can at least recognize in the resolution that we are providing to 434 01:01:40,200 --> 01:01:40,640 council? 435 01:01:45,080 --> 01:01:48,840 I'm just kind of surprised we're not willing to state it. 436 01:01:50,880 --> 01:01:51,340 Yes, commissioner 437 01:01:51,340 --> 01:02:02,740 I think it's been made clear that all the parties know this and it's in our general plan as a landmark piece of property. 438 01:02:03,100 --> 01:02:12,580 And I think that having it in the general plan as a landmark property is plenty in my personal opinion. 439 01:02:13,140 --> 01:02:18,980 Okay. Thank you. Just as a counter, it's in the general plan. 440 01:02:19,240 --> 01:02:22,220 We have a policy with respect to disposition of historical resources. 441 01:02:23,220 --> 01:02:30,020 We are the body required to find general plan consistency and we're just saying words 442 01:02:30,020 --> 01:02:32,340 and not putting it into our official actions. 443 01:02:33,380 --> 01:02:36,820 So that's the reason why I'm bringing it up as a point of comment. 444 01:02:38,220 --> 01:02:39,140 Any questions? 445 01:02:40,420 --> 01:02:44,440 Still from city from from staff just 446 01:02:49,400 --> 01:02:50,140 double check. 447 01:02:52,080 --> 01:02:55,120 Do we have any this is the city is the applicant? 448 01:02:55,280 --> 01:02:57,260 There's no rebuttal in this particular case, right? 449 01:02:58,160 --> 01:03:06,120 Okay, if not, any final questions of staff, then we'll close the public hearing and 450 01:03:06,120 --> 01:03:07,860 entertain discussion in a remotion. 451 01:03:16,780 --> 01:03:17,540 Commissioner McMahon. 452 01:03:17,540 --> 01:03:27,400 Okay, let's see, I move that we find that the project is categorically exempt from the California 453 01:03:27,400 --> 01:03:38,800 Environmental Quality Act, pursuant to Section 15061B3, Common Sense Exception, Section 15312, 454 01:03:38,940 --> 01:03:46,060 surplus government property sales, and Section 15325 transfers of ownership of interest of land. 455 01:03:46,060 --> 01:03:53,620 Find that the proposed disposition of city and property to the Canal Recreation and Park District of the following parcels 456 01:03:53,620 --> 01:04:04,000 APN 525-0-053-115-525-0-053-175 457 01:04:04,000 --> 01:04:08,340 525-0-053-195 458 01:04:08,340 --> 01:04:13,600 525-0-060-085 459 01:04:13,600 --> 01:04:20,920 525-0-0-060-095 460 01:04:20,920 --> 01:04:37,020 525-0-0-0-0-0-0-115, 525-0-0-0-0-0-125, and 525-0-0-0-0-0-135 is consistent with a thousand 461 01:04:37,020 --> 01:04:44,600 oaks to 2045 general plan pursuant to government code section number 6542, and number three 462 01:04:44,600 --> 01:04:49,580 We recommend that the City Council adopt an ordinance for proving developmental agreement 463 01:04:49,580 --> 01:04:59,400 DAGR-2025-7004, establishing the city's agreement not to not change the existing zoning 464 01:04:59,400 --> 01:05:05,020 and general plan designations of the property without owners consent for 30 years from the 465 01:05:05,020 --> 01:05:06,000 date of execution. 466 01:05:08,740 --> 01:05:09,740 Well done. 467 01:05:10,360 --> 01:05:12,620 That was the longest one I've ever read. 468 01:05:13,720 --> 01:05:15,700 I don't think you beat the secretary, though. 469 01:05:15,840 --> 01:05:19,840 I mean, I think that she does an amazing job. 470 01:05:20,340 --> 01:05:22,240 Any comments on the motion? 471 01:05:23,220 --> 01:05:24,520 I sure, Tyler Kedollet. 472 01:05:25,900 --> 01:05:31,140 I appreciate what Jim had said about the fact that preservation is in your DNA. 473 01:05:31,920 --> 01:05:36,740 And for me coming in, I did have some of those concerns, some of the landmark status concerns, for sure. 474 01:05:36,740 --> 01:05:43,880 I do like the CRPD has been talking to Mr. Maple, who is basically our city historian, 475 01:05:45,120 --> 01:05:49,780 de Vecto's city historian, and kind of the keeper of the wisdom. 476 01:05:50,480 --> 01:05:53,600 And I appreciate that you guys see that and that that's something. 477 01:05:53,900 --> 01:06:01,380 And based on what staff has told us tonight and what the city attorney's office has indicated to us in terms of 478 01:06:03,340 --> 01:06:05,580 that that landmark status is there. 479 01:06:05,920 --> 01:06:10,260 I was concerned, Mick, that we didn't have that really called out. 480 01:06:10,360 --> 01:06:14,160 But I do feel comfortable that it is called out enough in the general plan, 481 01:06:14,160 --> 01:06:18,480 and that you guys understand that that's something that you care for. 482 01:06:18,740 --> 01:06:22,080 And we get it, that some of this is going to have to be sold. 483 01:06:22,840 --> 01:06:28,020 But my biggest concern was that property itself, was the building itself. 484 01:06:28,260 --> 01:06:29,980 And so for that reason, I'll support the motion. 485 01:06:31,380 --> 01:06:32,700 Thank you, any other comments? 486 01:06:33,980 --> 01:06:34,660 Commissioner Buss? 487 01:06:34,900 --> 01:06:43,900 I just want to clarify, the intention is not to sell any of the property, unless viscally that's like the last resort, like sell the farm like you said. 488 01:06:44,160 --> 01:06:50,540 So, because I know one of the concerns had been because we do have to have so much development is having the open spaces. 489 01:06:50,820 --> 01:06:55,020 So that's not on the table legitimate, if you're right. 490 01:06:57,220 --> 01:07:02,440 If we entertain this, we'll, Mr. Friedle, let's open up to public hearing again. 491 01:07:02,520 --> 01:07:02,740 Okay. 492 01:07:03,200 --> 01:07:03,880 Well then. 493 01:07:04,260 --> 01:07:06,500 Do you want to, do you want me to comment? 494 01:07:06,520 --> 01:07:10,200 I just based on Commissioner Bill, that's comments. 495 01:07:11,080 --> 01:07:11,980 I think I misspoke. 496 01:07:12,180 --> 01:07:15,840 I didn't mean, I didn't mean sell, I mean develop, I mean develop. 497 01:07:16,200 --> 01:07:16,920 So yeah, I misspoke. 498 01:07:17,100 --> 01:07:17,340 Okay. 499 01:07:17,760 --> 01:07:18,800 That's just why I want to clarify. 500 01:07:20,960 --> 01:07:21,400 Okay. 501 01:07:21,760 --> 01:07:21,980 All right. 502 01:07:26,580 --> 01:07:32,040 Okay, Mr. City Attorney, I have two things, I mean you're correct, if we weren't a solicit 503 01:07:32,040 --> 01:07:37,720 additional input from the public that we have to reopen the public hearing, what I will 504 01:07:37,720 --> 01:07:44,900 say is that the intent of the deal is for the parts district to continue using the property 505 01:07:44,900 --> 01:07:49,080 as they've been doing and for there not to be additional development. 506 01:07:50,760 --> 01:07:58,460 I just want to clarify that because anyone watching, if it's thought that there may be 507 01:07:58,460 --> 01:08:05,380 development in the near future, that kind of is different than what I understood it 508 01:08:05,380 --> 01:08:05,620 to be. 509 01:08:05,780 --> 01:08:09,000 So I understand what you stated in order to be the case. 510 01:08:13,280 --> 01:08:13,940 Thank you. 511 01:08:14,960 --> 01:08:22,320 I would still like to ask my fellow commissioners if they would be willing to entertain 512 01:08:22,320 --> 01:08:30,600 and slight amendment to the motion, in the resolution, which would only add the following phrase, 513 01:08:31,160 --> 01:08:36,520 and recognizes that City Landmark No. 10 Hill Crest Center is on the property. 514 01:08:37,100 --> 01:08:44,000 Doesn't change the findings, it doesn't change which elements of the general plan we're identifying it to be consistent with. 515 01:08:44,360 --> 01:08:51,220 It is merely a phrase which calls out that, it is on the property, which our general plan states it does, 516 01:08:51,220 --> 01:09:14,300 should have no effect on this, and I would ask to amend specifically or move to amend the motion to include let me just ask first would you be willing to include it if not I would ask the commission to vote on it before I I do that I want to have the opinion for more city attorney. 517 01:09:14,300 --> 01:09:15,300 This 518 01:09:21,160 --> 01:09:21,560 is the 519 01:09:43,990 --> 01:09:47,930 property, it's specifically defined here and 520 01:09:58,550 --> 01:10:01,810 it would be in this part here. 521 01:10:16,750 --> 01:10:17,290 Just add it. 522 01:10:18,010 --> 01:10:19,330 Yeah, right in here. 523 01:10:20,630 --> 01:10:28,410 Has the proposed sale preserves the plot plot of this project is consistent with exactly the same element that's been described by us. 524 01:10:38,370 --> 01:10:40,530 Change is nothing of the other other element. 525 01:10:53,280 --> 01:11:03,020 I mean, again, I don't think it's necessary to include that language in there, but I mean, I don't think that there's anything prohibiting you from adding that language in there. 526 01:11:03,560 --> 01:11:07,420 You don't believe it or else it changed the effect of the resolution. 527 01:11:08,340 --> 01:11:14,600 That's what I'm trying to do is not to affect it just to call out something that is in the general plan or just stating it. 528 01:11:16,900 --> 01:11:20,500 So what is the purpose of adding it then? 529 01:11:21,260 --> 01:11:22,600 Because it would be in the resolution. 530 01:11:26,590 --> 01:11:26,870 Okay. 531 01:11:27,190 --> 01:11:30,670 I mean, again, I don't... 532 01:11:30,670 --> 01:11:32,610 I mean, you can add the language in there. 533 01:11:32,830 --> 01:11:34,330 I mean, it's your resolution you can add it. 534 01:11:34,490 --> 01:11:36,550 I mean, I don't... 535 01:11:36,550 --> 01:11:39,450 I wouldn't say that it doesn't do anything to the resolution. 536 01:11:39,450 --> 01:11:40,630 I see you're adding the language. 537 01:11:40,830 --> 01:11:42,610 But, again, 538 01:11:45,410 --> 01:11:48,250 I don't understand the purpose of it, 539 01:11:48,250 --> 01:11:49,570 but you can add it in there. 540 01:11:51,230 --> 01:11:55,310 Okay, for me, the purpose is there's nothing in the current resolution that 541 01:11:55,310 --> 01:11:57,750 states the fact that there is a city landmark on this property. 542 01:11:58,410 --> 01:12:02,010 This was at least recognized overtly that there is one, right. 543 01:12:02,690 --> 01:12:07,250 So there is a there is a resolution from the city that identifies it as a landmark. 544 01:12:07,250 --> 01:12:10,570 So I mean, it's right, but we had to go and find it. 545 01:12:10,610 --> 01:12:11,390 It's in 1997. 546 01:12:11,630 --> 01:12:12,810 It's in city records. 547 01:12:13,130 --> 01:12:18,230 This would highlight very clearly in the disposition agreement that are in the 548 01:12:18,230 --> 01:12:25,690 a disposition decision the City Council will make, that the Planning Commission recognizes that there is a city plan mark on the property. 549 01:12:28,980 --> 01:12:36,080 I'm sure it'll be in the resolution regarding the finding and the consistency with the general plan. 550 01:12:37,720 --> 01:12:38,640 Right, that's a question. 551 01:12:38,760 --> 01:12:39,320 Those are say that again. 552 01:12:40,560 --> 01:12:47,480 You want to add that language into the resolution as it applies to the finding of consistency with the general plan. 553 01:12:47,480 --> 01:12:54,280 Right, but the phrase itself has no effect except to state that it is recognized as that it's a city landmark. 554 01:12:54,520 --> 01:13:00,100 It doesn't change the elements through which staff has recommended that it's consistent with the general plan. 555 01:13:02,210 --> 01:13:04,390 You've highlighted the governance and the land use elements. 556 01:13:06,150 --> 01:13:07,530 You know, I agree with that. 557 01:13:07,710 --> 01:13:11,650 I mean, I don't think it changes the fact that it's consistent with the general plan. 558 01:13:12,490 --> 01:13:25,030 So that would be my request is to have that changed so that it is stated and when someone reads that they know that we recognize that. 559 01:13:28,210 --> 01:13:37,630 I'm feeling that this is a win-win park and rec department was on the same page with our city staff. 560 01:13:37,630 --> 01:13:48,830 They worked really hard together to draft this resolution, and who are we to add something to it that doesn't change it? 561 01:13:50,110 --> 01:13:57,610 I'm going to not change my motion, and if you guys want to vote on that, that's fine. 562 01:13:57,790 --> 01:14:03,570 Okay, then I would like to amend, if I should try to look at it a little bit. 563 01:14:04,670 --> 01:14:10,730 Okay, I'm not putting my lawyer hat on here and I could be completely off based on this because I did a little bit of research. 564 01:14:10,970 --> 01:14:15,510 This was a relatively complicated issue I thought today because I did a lot of research. 565 01:14:16,110 --> 01:14:19,990 I think maybe by adding that language we say that it's innocuous. 566 01:14:20,430 --> 01:14:25,910 Maybe it avoids a sequence challenge, so when we're talking about future development, development down the road. 567 01:14:25,910 --> 01:14:39,270 So maybe it avoids a secret challenge because, and I'm going to read this, I'm not going to, I'm not going to add lib this, because the proposed acquisition is a discretionary action that could result in irreversible impacts. 568 01:14:39,790 --> 01:14:47,310 Secret requires that the city evaluate the building's historic resource status and consider feasible preservation alternatives prior to approval. 569 01:14:47,310 --> 01:14:59,810 So, again, perhaps what we're doing is we're just kind of cutting it off its knees down the road for a sequel challenge because we have considered its historic status as we sit here today with languages. 570 01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:18,200 Relatively innocuous. That was a tortured way of getting to that. Yeah, I don't think that this resolution is going to have any impact on any kind of sequel evaluation. I mean, it's, I mean, that's going to have no impact on any challenges. I would still support the language. 571 01:15:20,500 --> 01:15:31,140 Thank you. Given that, I'm going to ask that I move to amend the motion such that section two of the resolution. 572 01:15:31,140 --> 01:15:41,480 which starts with the paragraph as the proposed sale to have that read. 573 01:15:42,400 --> 01:15:49,000 As the proposed sale preserves the existing land used designations of open space, commercial and mixed use. 574 01:15:50,360 --> 01:15:58,220 Here's the additional language and recognizes that city landmark number 10, Hillcrest Center, is on the property. 575 01:15:59,920 --> 01:16:01,200 That's the amended language. 576 01:16:01,560 --> 01:16:08,920 The project is consistent with the goals and policies described within the governance, land use, and parts and open space elements of the general plan. 577 01:16:09,320 --> 01:16:16,780 These include the following and the following thing would be so that that additional phrasing is the only additional language. 578 01:16:17,260 --> 01:16:18,880 Would you mind repeating that please? 579 01:16:18,880 --> 01:16:46,240 So motion would be to amend the resolution in the motion such that the second paragraph section 2 reads as the proposed sale preserves the existing land used designations of open space, commercial and mixed use and recognizes that City landmark number 10 Hillcrest Center is on the property. 580 01:16:46,240 --> 01:16:55,140 The project is consistent with the goals and policies described within the governance, land use, and parks and open space elements of the general plan. 581 01:16:55,560 --> 01:16:56,920 These include the following. 582 01:16:57,360 --> 01:16:58,700 That's the way it would read. 583 01:16:59,660 --> 01:17:01,500 And that's the only change. 584 01:17:02,160 --> 01:17:05,060 Is there any comments on the amended motion? 585 01:17:07,140 --> 01:17:09,780 If not, let's have a vote on the amendment. 586 01:17:09,780 --> 01:17:10,860 So 587 01:17:13,060 --> 01:17:14,280 just point of clarification. 588 01:17:14,580 --> 01:17:21,410 So the vote is to add the amendment to the existing motion. 589 01:17:21,810 --> 01:17:22,110 Correct. 590 01:17:22,870 --> 01:17:29,110 In the resolution, the PC resolution, so whether to add that language into the existing motion, that's on the table. 591 01:17:29,390 --> 01:17:29,710 That's correct. 592 01:17:35,400 --> 01:17:36,220 Commissioner Bess. 593 01:17:37,340 --> 01:17:37,480 Yes. 594 01:17:39,240 --> 01:17:40,600 Commissioner Tyler Kettlehead. 595 01:17:40,980 --> 01:17:41,260 Yes. 596 01:17:42,080 --> 01:17:43,020 Commissioner McMahon. 597 01:17:44,480 --> 01:17:46,140 You've talked to me into it. 598 01:17:46,280 --> 01:17:46,400 Yes. 599 01:17:46,400 --> 01:17:46,620 Yes. 600 01:17:47,160 --> 01:17:48,240 Chair Ferris. 601 01:17:48,600 --> 01:17:48,740 Yes. 602 01:17:49,860 --> 01:17:53,620 The amendment passes 40, Commissioner Ladson absent. 603 01:17:54,360 --> 01:17:54,800 Thank you. 604 01:17:54,940 --> 01:17:58,940 And I want to thank my fellow commissioners for entertaining the discussion. 605 01:17:59,560 --> 01:18:02,280 Let us now go and discuss the amended motion. 606 01:18:02,940 --> 01:18:05,240 Are there any last comments? 607 01:18:07,440 --> 01:18:12,980 I will just say, I think Mr. Maple ended up mentioning this right. 608 01:18:12,980 --> 01:18:21,560 This really is, you've mentioned as a win-win, I do think it is something to wear since public land donated to the city for public use. 609 01:18:21,760 --> 01:18:24,780 It is continuous public use through this disposition. 610 01:18:25,000 --> 01:18:41,540 It will continue its public use, and it is an amazing element of our city and one that has historic meaning to it as well as continuing community involvement as, you know, firework till. 611 01:18:42,700 --> 01:18:45,040 and really something in the center of it. 612 01:18:45,600 --> 01:18:54,360 I'm very happy to support the motion, and I'm very, again, thankful for the opportunity to recognize these important historic elements that the city has. 613 01:18:54,500 --> 01:19:06,940 Where, I mean, where are we now, is 60, how many years, 62 coming up on, and, you know, getting to a point where it's a century, like we've been around for a while. 614 01:19:06,940 --> 01:19:19,280 I think it's nice that we were able to do this and share it within our sisterly government agencies to be able to keep this preserved. 615 01:19:19,660 --> 01:19:21,660 So any final questions or comments? 616 01:19:22,500 --> 01:19:23,020 Commissioner Bus? 617 01:19:24,400 --> 01:19:26,680 I agree with everything that's been said. 618 01:19:27,020 --> 01:19:31,620 Another thing that hasn't been touched on is that there's plays that go on at this center. 619 01:19:31,620 --> 01:19:48,380 You know, there's a lot of art shows maintaining that as a space for that as well, which I know CRPD will do and has been doing is great for me because and the community because culturally, you know, to have where our children can put on these plays that are actually quite well done. 620 01:19:48,520 --> 01:19:59,540 I recommend going and seeing when the writing's pretty funny for the age group, but yeah, so I'm very pleased that for the next 30 years at least we hopefully will maintain this space. 621 01:19:59,540 --> 01:20:05,920 And I know that the park setting will be maintained as well as trails because I know CRPD is big on that 622 01:20:05,920 --> 01:20:10,060 So I'm very happy that the city and CRPD were able to come to this 623 01:20:12,640 --> 01:20:14,180 Final final options 624 01:20:15,220 --> 01:20:16,400 Let's go for a vote 625 01:20:18,760 --> 01:20:25,560 Commissioner buzz. Yes, Commissioner Tyler Kettlehen. Yes, Commissioner McMahon. Yes chair fairs. Yes 626 01:20:26,240 --> 01:20:32,400 Motion carries 40 Commissioner Lenson absent. All right. Thank you. There's no appeal period on this instance 627 01:20:32,400 --> 01:20:36,600 it's going to the City Council, thank you all. 628 01:20:37,360 --> 01:20:41,300 Let's now go to, we don't have any department reports this evening. 629 01:20:41,960 --> 01:20:45,980 Now's the time for commission comments and or any AB 1234 reports. 630 01:20:46,100 --> 01:20:48,580 Are there any comments from fellow commissioners? 631 01:20:50,220 --> 01:20:55,440 No, Miss Alia, Meliker, are there any follow-up items and announcements for upcoming issues? 632 01:20:56,560 --> 01:21:07,060 Yes, tomorrow evening, City Council will consider 401-403 Hillcrest, dispossession and 633 01:21:07,060 --> 01:21:12,000 transfer of city owned property that you just consider it right now, letter of public 634 01:21:12,000 --> 01:21:17,960 convenience or necessity from Department of Alcoholic Beverage Control for the sale of alcohol 635 01:21:17,960 --> 01:21:18,880 the whole for consumption. 636 01:21:19,620 --> 01:21:25,600 Offsite for R1 for a site at 2150 is $1,000 full of R. 637 01:21:25,920 --> 01:21:31,320 In January 27th, City Council, we have two department reports from us. 638 01:21:31,740 --> 01:21:46,720 There will be a community development department update and an initiation of a height overlay zone change in concurrent processing of entitlement to accommodate a contemplated climbing facility at 145 West Hillcrest Drive. 639 01:21:46,720 --> 01:21:54,420 And on the consent calendar, there will be the first amendment to CSG consultant contract for 640 01:21:54,420 --> 01:21:56,980 environmental services for the downtown project. 641 01:21:58,680 --> 01:22:04,060 Upcoming planning commission items, we have in January 26, there will be two public hearings. 642 01:22:05,080 --> 01:22:11,480 Want to allow for the operation of eight religious assembly use within an existing industrial building. 643 01:22:11,480 --> 01:22:22,160 and alternating use of parking facilities located in the M1 industrial park zone and SB 15 run Choconejo industrial park area. 644 01:22:23,080 --> 01:22:34,880 And one for an update to the accessory dwelling units and junior access accessory dwelling units ordinance as the state keeps changing the regulations. 645 01:22:35,440 --> 01:22:36,760 And that's all I have. 646 01:22:38,280 --> 01:22:45,360 Thank you and thank you all now adjourned to the next meeting January 26th, 26th, 26th, 6pm. Thank you.