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Good evening, welcome to the March workshop on the Simmer's property, annexation petition,

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AXCP-2024-01. Located at 304 apples church road. Tonight we have our commission members,

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staff, and the applicant present. This is the opportunity for us to kind of talk through

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the project, interface directly with the applicant and staff, and ask pertinent questions

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so that we can have a better understanding of the scope of the project.

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So we'll kick it off to Kelly.

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I know you have some new notes on, are we going to wait till the actual meeting for that?

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It's all submitted, so I mean, we can workshop what we have.

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Okay.

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I mean, yeah, we can talk about that.

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Okay.

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I think that we should start there.

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That's okay with everything else.

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Absolutely. I wasn't sure, you know, where you want to start off that. So I'm

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going to skip through some of my slides here and get us to.

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So unless it was just advising that we're going to have to go through this information all over again for the public hearing portion.

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Just prepare everybody.

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I'm going to hear me talk a lot tonight.

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So what we have before us is the petition for annexation.

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It's an application.

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It was complete and the fees were paid.

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The application was provided to the Board of Commissioners at their December 2024 meeting

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at which time they delegated it to you the planning commission, which is required by our code.

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The applicant is here tonight.

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A joining property owners have been notified by certified mail, advertisement in the Frederick

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Newspost and the property was posted.

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As previously stated, the petition for the

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Simmer's property along Apple's Church Road is sitting at the corner where

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Apple's Church Road and Roddy Road and Isla Road intersect. This is the same

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property that was the subject of the 2022 annexation resolution and then went to

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a referendum vote that was denied. Tonight planning and zoning commission wanted

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to discuss proposal as well as here is from town residents.

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The workshop portion allows the planning commission

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to discuss the petition in an open format with staff

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and the applicants.

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They will not be accepting public comment

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during the workshop portion of the meeting,

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but we'll be accepting comments during the public hearing

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and also at the end of the meeting,

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public comment will be heard on any item

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the plan or that you would like to address the planning commission.

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So, there will be plenty of opportunities for public comment tonight, just not during

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the workshop portion.

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Anxations are regulated by the state of Maryland's local government article.

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This article indicates that if a complete annexation petition application is submitted to

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the town, the town commissioners, they must review it and they cannot outright just deny it.

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The county code or the town's code, sorry, the town code regulates how annexations are processed,

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and this is located in Section 3.3 of the zoning ordinance.

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In the town code, the Board of Commissioners must delegate review of the petition to the Planning and Zoning Commission for their recommendation.

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The Planning and Zoning Commission is charged with developing a written recommendation to the Board of Commissioners and they serve in an advisory capacity to the Board of Commissioners.

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The Board of Commissioners holds a public hearing before making their decision.

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So again, there'll be more opportunities for public comment.

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They are the sole decision makers on annexation.

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The Planning Commission, again, just makes a recommendation.

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The Planning and Zoning Commission have several items they must report on to the Board of Commissioners.

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They shall make findings of fact on the degree of conformance to the Thermalt Master Plan in

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generally are generally and specifically in regards to the municipal growth element.

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The availability of public facilities and services to meet the demands proposed development,

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the viability and practicality of public improvement plans for utilities and services for the proposed

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development.

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They must also address if the annexation proposal should be approved or denied as any conditions

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that should be placed upon any approval if applicable.

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Review of the concept plan per the town code on concept plans which is located in 3.1.4

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of the zoning ordinance as well as proposed zoning district.

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How the annexation proposal impacts the planning and timing of infrastructure and what the zoning classification of the property should be upon annexation.

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The concept plan will be held to the regulations of concept plans in town codes.

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Thermal annexation process is unique in that it does require a detailed concept plan as you see here on the screen.

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concept plans associated with any project go through multiple reviews where

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recommendations are made applicant can address those review comments by

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providing a revised concept plan which they have done. This can create multiple

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versions of concept plans which is to be anticipated. However if an annexation

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concept plan gets to the board of commissioners for approval it is part of the

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annexation agreement. The concept plan is part of the binding agreement between the developer and

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the town of Vermont. As a matter of fact, if an annexation is approved, the application must

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or the applicant must still submit to the town to the Planning and Zoning Commission subdivision

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plaques and site plans that would still have to be reviewed by you. Any plan submitted must be

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in compliance with the approved annexation concept plans, so it can't just be willing

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nearly something completely different. It has to be compliant with the concept plan that's

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part of the annexation agreement.

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The property currently has a portion within town limits and a

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larger portion that is outside of town limits. The part within town limits is approximately 7.79 acres

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and is currently zoned R5 residential which allows for a maximum density of

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approximately 10 dwellings per acre. The larger part of the parcel is located

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outside of town municipal boundary but is directly attached to the town. This

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county portion of the parcel is over 16 acres in size and zoned agriculture. The

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proposed zoning for the property is R5 which is the zoning category recommended in

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the master plan which you can see up there on the map. It's underneath that blue star on the

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screen.

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Importantly regarding public adequate public facilities. A traffic impact study will be

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required and the applicant has acknowledged this and they do intend to do that. Water capacity is

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available. Certain upgrades will be needed and infrastructure obviously will be need to be extended

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it into the site to supply the development, which would be funded by the developer.

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Suer capacity is available.

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There is an existing pump station in the neighborhood, but that would have to be upgraded.

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And of course, infrastructure would have to be extended into the site by the developer.

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According to Frederick County Public School Systems, their quarterly report, as well as reports

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that they have provided there is adequate capacity in the school systems and they do anticipate

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the school systems to be within the school rated capacity ratios for the next 10 years.

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The electric services from the town are available and they will be served from Isla Road and required

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electric system upgrades and lines extended into the site, which would also be funded by the developer.

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Emergency services have provided comments, the planning commission has those, summary of those are

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in the staff report, and some of the items that they were concerned with were roadway with,

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no parking along the streets except where the parallel bump outs occur, full street width

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connection to Luther Drive. The assisted living facility will produce additional stress

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on the already stressed ambulance company.

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And then as previously stated, the property

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is within the growth area of the master plan and the proposed R5 zoning by the applicant

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is compliant with the master plan. So that is all that I have.

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Excuse me. Do we have any questions for staff at this time?

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No.

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Do we want to invite the applicant up so that we can interface with him?

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Yes.

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Okay.

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Mr. Cross.

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The workshop.

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Hi, Mr. Cross.

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Greetings.

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Good evening.

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Good evening.

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Good to be back.

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So I'll start off the question since we're a relatively new commission.

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If you could walk us through the process of your intergenerational housing and where this

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looks like elsewhere in the state that we could kind of look toward, you know, historical,

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you know, were there any issues with that? Like, because you have competing age groups,

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you know, collocated. So, has that been an issue in your other developments, or?

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I would use the word complementary rather than competing. But in response to your question,

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And my feeling is that neighborhoods that I was used to growing up that I've seen throughout

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the state used to be intergenerational, multi-generational.

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There was a time in America a grandmother could stick her nose out of the door and tell

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the teenagers to behave at three o'clock in the afternoon and not get shot at.

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There was a time when we didn't build age restricted age 55 communities candidly.

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I believe that's a move by the developers who don't want to pay an adequate public facility's audience to fix the schools.

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So if you do an age of 55 plus and you don't have kids, you don't have to make that contribution.

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I don't agree with that.

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I think if we're not fixing our schools, we're not gaining as a country.

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So my attitude in the development, we have approved in Smithburg and

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break ground on this summer is that you ought to have a mixture of housing in the same neighborhood,

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particularly in towns where there is a large commuting population. If the middle generation

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parents are down the road, and Joey and Sarah are going to get out of school at three,

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is there not an advantage of Joey and Sarah's grandparents living in the same neighborhood?

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and being that care provider until the bread-earning parents get back up the road near the end of the day.

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That's the concept.

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If you're in that middle-age group and you're looking over your shoulder-age parents,

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if they live in the same neighborhood and can age out in that neighborhood,

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I personally think that's a good idea.

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So that's our idea as far as intergenerational is concerned.

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Does that address your question, ma'am?

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Certainly, Chris.

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Sorry.

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You know me.

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I'm Bruce Dean.

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I'm Mr. Crosses, Landy's attorney.

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You would ask for a specific example that you could look at.

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Now, we worked on one in Frederick County called Ballinger Run.

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It's right across the street from Tuscware High School if you want to take a look at it.

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And it was not intended to be anything other than an all-age project.

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But then they, and I believe it was NVR Ryan Homes started building these villa products.

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They're very popular with folks who want to live on the first floor, folks 55 and older as Daniel explained.

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And we ended up actually changing a part of that project to be age restricted and not a large part of it.

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But for the reasons Daniel just explained, there were people who were moving to that neighborhood because

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is they wanted their kids to be able to walk

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to Tuscware High School,

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but then they also wanted their grandparents,

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the kids' grandparents to live in the same neighborhood.

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So it ended up being one of the fastest-selling projects

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in Frederick County.

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I mean, it went from starter construction to completion

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in just a matter of years,

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and it's significantly larger than Albert Metta's.

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Do you remember John?

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It's like, I wanna say it's like six or 700 houses,

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So it completely dwarfed this one, but I think the point is to Mr. Cross's point is that it has been done in Frederick and it was done very successfully.

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It is more typical that one single project will be all 55 and older and it might be next door to one that's up and everybody.

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But we found that mixing the two in one project actually worked really well.

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So he's not breaking brand new ground, but I would say he has a philosophy towards doing that that is not shared by all developers.

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And what about apartments?

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Because I don't know if you follow Frederick County and their housing assessments.

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There's zero inventory for seniors to rent in the county right now, according to their study.

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Why not? Look at that, you already have the assisted living facility there. Well, we had proposed

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multi-family in the prior iteration of the annexation that was approved by the Board of Commissioners, but then

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referendum to denial by the citizens of the town. For apartments? Oh yeah, there were apartments in our last

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in the last concept plan that was approved by the Board. And it was deemed, I disagreed with it, but

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the public spoke. They said it was too dense. There was too many units on that property,

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and a significant amount of them. Do you remember what the percentage was? It was multi-family.

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It was about 30%. But that was our argument. We were hoping to have a housing type for virtually

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every price point in the town of Thurmond, but we were told that was too dense. So when we came back

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in you don't see apartments anymore.

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We were told that by your voters. Your prior contract

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town planner very much encouraged us to proceed from kind of sort of what you're seeing now.

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Our first 2018 submittal was a mixture of singles, towns, and the senior living facility,

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and we were continually asked to increase our density in accordance with your plans.

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And we ultimately went to a condominium-style apartment building

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that had eight units per building.

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Ground floor senior independent living zero threshold household units with apartments above.

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That's what the voters made it very clear they didn't want in Thermite.

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So that's to answer your question. That's why we don't have them. We would love to have them. But okay, that's fair.

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Questions?

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Can you talk about the park of why you're combining them?

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You're improving the park that's already there, but you're not adding one, right?

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I'm sorry. The park. The park. Yeah, the park. You're you're using the existing park.

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that's on there no no it is not but it is the assisted living facility does

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directly but the to the park yeah they're in the middle I thought I was

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not in an previous plan where they were going to improve it correct in the

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previous annexation the agreement that was developed between the board of

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commissioners and the app it did include improvements to the Carroll Street

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extended park. Okay.

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So there's just a dog park and a small park for these

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assisted living. There's a lot of air in the middle. No, there's more than that.

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No. Yeah, yeah. Up here in the middle. It kind of looks like a couple.

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Playground

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and community gardens. Okay. I thought that was one that was already there.

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That's

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out in the middle. I was reminded that if I use a laser pointer on a TV screen,

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no one can see what I'm shooting at. So I'll use the traditional one. This is the

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primary playground area with parking and supporting it. This is the dog park exercise station

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spread out throughout the running nature trails throughout the area, victory gardens, another

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small playground. We've littered the community in opportunities to be outside and do exercise.

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And what are the impacts to Easy Street and Luther drive with the parking that they have now?

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Right now they obviously are they're both at a dead end.

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Do we have an understanding of what that will do to that community with the parking there?

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It's a public street so it currently allows parking.

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One of the things that emergency services did recommend that within this development that

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there would be no parking on the street except for within the areas that they have already

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designed as bump outs within the curb line. So that would not impede any

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emergency services accessing the site for emergencies.

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But beyond that, I can't forecast whether or not people are going to park on, you know,

227
00:19:35,120 --> 00:19:39,460
Luther Drive or Easy Street. I mean, I guess there's always that potential.

228
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But most likely they're going to park within their neighborhood because that will be closer.

229
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right but I'm saying like so for the existing neighborhood do those have the bomb

230
00:19:48,620 --> 00:19:52,440
bouts already there where do they know they do not they just have regular

231
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street sections that do allow for parking on the street so we wouldn't be

232
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impacting the no parking there it would be no no any anything that we're

233
00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:06,520
talking about or anything that we that you would recommend to the mayor's

234
00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:12,900
missioners would directly apply to this development and not to anywhere else

235
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within Fairmont.

236
00:20:26,620 --> 00:20:26,880
Indeed.

237
00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:28,520
Madam Chairman, may I make a comment?

238
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Sure.

239
00:20:29,220 --> 00:20:30,220
Because it fits with your question.

240
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All right.

241
00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:38,520
So when we appeared previously before you in January and before the commissioners prior to

242
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that, this was concept two, version one.

243
00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:48,860
What you're looking at in version two is we changed the road right away to 60 feet.

244
00:20:48,860 --> 00:20:55,460
We had heard Board of Commissioners meetings, by which apparently citizens and hammock

245
00:20:55,460 --> 00:20:57,740
rails feel their roads are too narrow.

246
00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:03,740
You haven't made an official change in your ordinance yet, so I'm jumping the gun,

247
00:21:04,120 --> 00:21:08,480
but anticipating that, the version two changes year to 60 foot right away.

248
00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:15,440
What I've just passed out to you is that new road cross section showing 12 feet six for

249
00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:23,240
for each of the traffic lanes and eight foot parallel parking on one side of the road and

250
00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:27,660
still the required street tree box and sidewalk area.

251
00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:33,520
And then on the side that doesn't have that parallel parking, that's a much larger

252
00:21:34,360 --> 00:21:41,740
13, 17 foot six open space with the street tree box and the sidewalk between the curb line

253
00:21:41,740 --> 00:21:42,860
in the end of the right away.

254
00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:52,880
And to your question, therefore, as far as the parks, I'm hoping we can get better utilization.

255
00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:57,860
If we're going to have that larger right away, picture, if you will, a serpentine sidewalk,

256
00:21:58,360 --> 00:22:02,880
a meandering sidewalk instead of a straight shot that has some of the exercise stations

257
00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:08,240
and more landscape planting as open space since it's going to be there.

258
00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:08,940
Can

259
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we talk about the intersections that interface with this development for a minute?

260
00:22:20,290 --> 00:22:22,470
Because that's a big concern for me.

261
00:22:22,610 --> 00:22:29,150
We have three roads that don't have markings on them, and one of the roads, I understand

262
00:22:29,150 --> 00:22:33,350
we don't have easements to widen the road the whole way through.

263
00:22:34,350 --> 00:22:38,970
So what is the recommendation and what is the plan to address that?

264
00:22:40,390 --> 00:22:45,810
Well, the applicant would have to do a traffic impact study, and that traffic impact study

265
00:22:45,810 --> 00:22:49,270
would make recommendations within that.

266
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But beyond that, I can't provide any additional information until we get that traffic impact

267
00:22:56,930 --> 00:23:05,190
study so that those engineers would figure out the logistics of all those things that need

268
00:23:05,190 --> 00:23:12,190
happen to make the road official safe, they would make recommendations, but they wouldn't

269
00:23:12,190 --> 00:23:18,650
engineer or design or anything like that. So typically, you know, they just wouldn't

270
00:23:19,130 --> 00:23:27,530
analyze, or existing traffic conditions, and then apply this development anticipated traffic

271
00:23:27,530 --> 00:23:34,570
counts, as well as existing approved plans that we have in the pipeline. So all of those

272
00:23:34,570 --> 00:23:37,290
Those would be calculated as well in those traffic counts.

273
00:23:37,970 --> 00:23:45,450
And then of course in that traffic impact study, they make recommendations as to what should be done to make the roads safer.

274
00:23:54,670 --> 00:24:02,270
Out of chairman, what I've handed you, staff has had for several years, but as part of the last go around, two traffic studies were done.

275
00:24:02,530 --> 00:24:05,450
We did one in 21 and one in 22.

276
00:24:05,910 --> 00:24:11,710
The second one was because of this citizen request that we missed the Thurmont rush hour.

277
00:24:11,710 --> 00:24:17,890
In fact, the Thermont Rush Hour is not the AM and PM rush hour, it's when NVR lets out.

278
00:24:18,430 --> 00:24:21,950
So the second study was done for that time of day.

279
00:24:22,670 --> 00:24:29,830
Further, the traffic engineer and staff, not me as developer, decided what intersections

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00:24:29,830 --> 00:24:30,670
get studied.

281
00:24:31,670 --> 00:24:39,510
And I would point out that Marty Burns has, Commissioner Burns has repeated several times that there

282
00:24:39,510 --> 00:24:42,710
There should be a firewall between the developer and the traffic studies.

283
00:24:43,390 --> 00:24:49,570
Perfectly willing to support that idea, but they've been done twice, and there was public

284
00:24:49,570 --> 00:24:53,770
criticism last time around, oh, but you did your traffic studies during COVID.

285
00:24:54,610 --> 00:24:57,030
You obviously were low on your traffic counts.

286
00:24:57,690 --> 00:25:02,930
But as you'll see in the professional engineering comments, they anticipated that, so they looked

287
00:25:02,930 --> 00:25:07,410
at what the traffic counts were in the years prior to COVID, what your growth rates were,

288
00:25:07,410 --> 00:25:11,290
and they implied those growth rates on top of the study.

289
00:25:11,810 --> 00:25:15,270
So in essence, the second study was using what they estimated

290
00:25:15,270 --> 00:25:18,270
to be able to have been 2024 traffic.

291
00:25:19,970 --> 00:25:22,110
And you said which intersections were studied?

292
00:25:23,610 --> 00:25:24,090
Wow.

293
00:25:24,910 --> 00:25:25,570
A lot of them.

294
00:25:25,890 --> 00:25:29,450
So intersection at Apple's Church Road East Main Street,

295
00:25:29,570 --> 00:25:31,510
and these are the ones I remember off the top of my head,

296
00:25:31,510 --> 00:25:34,470
but everything is indicated in those traffic impact studies.

297
00:25:35,090 --> 00:25:41,130
Iowa Road, Roddy Road, Apple's Church Road intersection, Emmett'sburg Road,

298
00:25:41,290 --> 00:25:48,130
Iowa Road, Emmett'sburg Road, North Church Street, Water Street, North

299
00:25:48,130 --> 00:25:50,430
Church Street, East Main, West Main Street.

300
00:25:53,090 --> 00:25:54,870
Beyond that, right now I can't recall,

301
00:25:55,090 --> 00:25:58,810
but they're doing better than I could have done off the top of my head. I read the

302
00:25:58,810 --> 00:26:02,510
reports. Those are the ones that I know for certain that we did look at.

303
00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:07,060
Have

304
00:26:07,060 --> 00:26:11,000
have you have you actually set out there and watched the traffic let out at

305
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:15,480
NBR yourself personally I have not okay well I would encourage you to do so so

306
00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:18,020
you can acclimate yourself with that area so maybe you could have a better

307
00:26:18,020 --> 00:26:21,020
understanding of what some of those concerns are from the citizens because it

308
00:26:21,020 --> 00:26:24,380
does there's a lot of traffic on that road when it lets out you can always tell

309
00:26:24,380 --> 00:26:29,220
when it's 230 because that's when the cars start rolling up and then you've got

310
00:26:29,220 --> 00:26:34,640
school letting out and then the construction on church street so I wouldn't you

311
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:36,680
you know, dismiss some of those concerns that the citizens have.

312
00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:38,520
I think they're a very real concern.

313
00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:42,340
And we want to get away from being reactive with our intersections.

314
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:46,040
We, my opinion, we haven't done the greatest job at looking

315
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:50,960
at the intersections proactively, so we have a couple of problem areas

316
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:52,460
and we don't want to create another problem.

317
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:55,520
And these studies are done on average peak.

318
00:26:56,240 --> 00:27:03,840
So at 245, well, 1445, according to this study, you have 83 total cars

319
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:10,940
is going down Apple's church road. When normally it's, what does it say here? Normally about

320
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:19,640
30? It'll be very high peak time there. Yeah, I think that parking lot holds like 150

321
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:26,880
cars, doesn't it? Something. I'd have to look and count. I don't know. Is it using a zero

322
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:27,760
Yeah,

323
00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:39,860
that's, I mean, Isla Road is a very, it's an era road, it's not, I mean, we're adding

324
00:27:39,860 --> 00:27:44,360
a couple of developments that are going to be able to access that road in the next

325
00:27:44,360 --> 00:27:45,080
couple of years.

326
00:27:45,740 --> 00:27:51,260
You've got a regional park right there, you're encouraging park and open space, but there's

327
00:27:51,260 --> 00:27:53,360
no connectivity to the regional park.

328
00:27:53,360 --> 00:28:00,060
So that's, I think your proposed plan, it's going to, the sidewalks are going to go into town, but not that way, right?

329
00:28:00,740 --> 00:28:01,900
It's going to go this way.

330
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:04,220
You mean with this concept that we have here, this way.

331
00:28:04,700 --> 00:28:10,680
Right now, everything just aligns with their frontage on Apple's church road,

332
00:28:10,940 --> 00:28:16,500
sidewalks on Apple's church road. Of course, they connect sidewalks to Easy Street and Luther Drive.

333
00:28:17,420 --> 00:28:22,580
So, but beyond that, there are no additional sidewalks at this time, and that's something that, you know,

334
00:28:22,580 --> 00:28:26,320
So in your recommendation to the Board of Commissioners,

335
00:28:26,460 --> 00:28:28,340
those are recommendations that you would make

336
00:28:28,340 --> 00:28:30,340
after you have all of your information.

337
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:33,720
So after we get the traffic and impact study back,

338
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:35,900
we look at that and review it.

339
00:28:36,020 --> 00:28:38,820
And then you can take that information and say,

340
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:42,440
well, these are the things that we would like to see

341
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:49,580
the developer make concessions to in the annexation agreement.

342
00:28:49,580 --> 00:28:57,740
The mayor commissioners may take those as their negotiating points in the annexation agreement.

343
00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:03,000
So anything that the planning commission feels will be a benefit to the community, you

344
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:08,620
could make those recommendations in your report to the mayor and commissioners.

345
00:29:09,340 --> 00:29:09,560
Okay.

346
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:15,680
So this pre-annexation agreement, that will be ultimately vetted through mayor and board.

347
00:29:16,260 --> 00:29:16,500
Correct.

348
00:29:16,500 --> 00:29:26,740
That is not under your purview, that is under the mayor commissioner's purview as the elected body they will negotiate with the applicant if they get to that point.

349
00:29:27,620 --> 00:29:33,540
But we can certainly include that in our resolution to them of what we think would be best in your recommendation.

350
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:40,160
In your recommendation you can include any kind of concessions that you think would be a benefit to the community at large.

351
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:41,520
Okay.

352
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:52,220
Madam Chairman, if I understand your comment, one of Kelly's planters' comments in

353
00:29:52,220 --> 00:29:55,720
her January 21st document did pertain to sidewalks.

354
00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:59,920
And we now show in concept two, version two, aside-

355
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:25,400
We have a sidewalk from where our Alpha Road exits on to Apple's Church going northerly to the intersection because we control that. But we don't control the front of the houses on Apple's Church Road today, so we don't show that there. And then obviously we have the sidewalks throughout our own community. And as specified, we're making the connection of Luther and the connection to DZ with the sidewalks.

356
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:36,000
And then the design of the houses.

357
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:41,760
Do you have any brickfront homes that you're proposing?

358
00:30:43,020 --> 00:30:47,480
Because I think when I look at the master plan and you talk about improving the roads

359
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:53,480
and making them connected and all that good stuff, it's a little puzzling to me when

360
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:56,980
you drive through one community that doesn't look anything like the next community that

361
00:30:56,980 --> 00:30:57,660
you're driving to.

362
00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:02,620
So I was just wondering from a developer standpoint, why wouldn't you want, you know, the houses

363
00:31:02,620 --> 00:31:11,220
This is a kind of have similar features like having some of the brick front that you see in some of our townhouse communities throughout their mind.

364
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:16,040
So ordinarily, that decision happens later in the process.

365
00:31:16,820 --> 00:31:19,460
We look at this from a land development standpoint.

366
00:31:19,820 --> 00:31:23,300
Are we going to get through your process for an approved community?

367
00:31:23,780 --> 00:31:32,140
Then we work with builders and I will tell you that the number of national builders that have been touched with me over the last two weeks after.

368
00:31:32,140 --> 00:31:37,740
a couple of updates we posted is remarkable, given the appetite in the housing shortage.

369
00:31:38,060 --> 00:31:42,240
But we would then work with them for what types and styles of houses.

370
00:31:42,820 --> 00:31:47,020
In keeping with what recommendations you might make to us as you go through the process.

371
00:31:48,650 --> 00:31:50,540
Price points are critical.

372
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:55,580
As I've said in my response, and Commissioner Burns said two months ago,

373
00:31:55,880 --> 00:32:00,300
you have a hundred single family homes in your pipeline and other developments.

374
00:32:00,300 --> 00:32:05,240
That's why I'm trying to do tan analysis, because I don't wish to compete with that other 100.

375
00:32:05,500 --> 00:32:13,180
And I believe we should provide citizens with the opportunity to climb on the ladder of home ownership at a price point somewhere below with single family home.

376
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:29,160
I was mortified last June when we held our meeting at the library to have citizens say that if a person could not afford the $550,000 new DRB home in Hammaker Hills, they didn't want that person to move to thermo.

377
00:32:30,300 --> 00:32:35,960
I didn't know how to react to that, but I will take in mind your consideration that you'd

378
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:39,700
like us to do some brick fronts and we'll try to work with the builders to see where those,

379
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:41,760
where the price points would be if we did.

380
00:32:43,500 --> 00:32:46,260
550,000 dollar home, I couldn't even come closer to that.

381
00:32:48,500 --> 00:32:52,300
The last section of hammocker hills is going in the 590s at this point.

382
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:52,720
It

383
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:02,480
must be some DC people moving up to 70.

384
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:03,480
So

385
00:33:06,590 --> 00:33:24,030
do you do you share the same concerns about the intersections you've been out there you know what we're talking about with three of the four roads having no markings on them and you're proposing to put in you know a complete development on you know 26 acres.

386
00:33:24,810 --> 00:33:31,490
I mean do you how do you feel about that and your culpability or I don't know.

387
00:33:31,490 --> 00:33:39,330
James, could you get the zip disk for the previous PowerPoint 3 from the traffic study available for Kelly, please?

388
00:33:40,650 --> 00:33:42,210
Okay, a couple of responses.

389
00:33:44,170 --> 00:33:53,270
It's a growth area that the town has identified certainly to your 2008 master plan, and I actually think much earlier than that.

390
00:33:53,270 --> 00:34:02,770
So I'm not the Johnny come lately, this has been what the town has said they want to grow as high density residential for years and years and years.

391
00:34:04,050 --> 00:34:15,330
As Kelly has pointed out, it's somewhere around 9.8 to 10 depending on how you read the documents on the desired with a maximum density in an R5 neighborhood.

392
00:34:15,710 --> 00:34:16,690
Got it roughly correct?

393
00:34:17,850 --> 00:34:24,270
We're coming in at 4.6, so we're less than half, respecting what we heard from the

394
00:34:24,270 --> 00:34:25,490
citizens last time around.

395
00:34:26,330 --> 00:34:33,910
But there is a limit when you're only doing 100 units instead of 177 units of will-the-deal

396
00:34:33,910 --> 00:34:40,290
pencil, if you tell me, I have to completely improve Apple Search Road or Carroll Street.

397
00:34:41,070 --> 00:34:43,790
I would suggest you that there is some sharing there.

398
00:34:43,790 --> 00:34:47,690
We're no longer bringing the majority of the houses to the area.

399
00:34:48,590 --> 00:34:53,930
In the traffic studies, yes, that one, if you've got it, plays electronically.

400
00:34:56,170 --> 00:35:02,830
I think the worst intersection it was identified previously was the even, and this was the

401
00:35:02,830 --> 00:35:05,970
first study, so this was not the PM Rush out of Ryan.

402
00:35:06,550 --> 00:35:12,510
The worst intersection was northbound on Apple's Church at the intersection with Carol.

403
00:35:12,510 --> 00:35:19,650
And I believe we're going to find a slide that one of the slides said before we would

404
00:35:19,650 --> 00:35:22,910
have done the 177 unit subdivision.

405
00:35:23,630 --> 00:35:30,590
But with everything else in your pipeline, what's called background in traffic engineering

406
00:35:30,590 --> 00:35:37,490
language, counted, that intersection was apparently an eight second delay on the evening rush.

407
00:35:37,490 --> 00:35:42,450
and on the 2021 study we were going to grow to a nine-second delay.

408
00:35:43,130 --> 00:35:44,650
So you'd have had an additional second.

409
00:35:45,230 --> 00:35:48,150
Now when we first saw some of these slides up once we got into the 22 study,

410
00:35:48,370 --> 00:35:50,050
I think those numbers began to grow.

411
00:35:50,430 --> 00:35:53,330
But they weren't growing by a significant amount.

412
00:35:54,290 --> 00:35:58,170
So two-year point, if working with the town,

413
00:35:58,350 --> 00:36:01,230
working with the town engineers and the traffic engineers,

414
00:36:01,650 --> 00:36:04,150
there's more that needs to be done at the intersections.

415
00:36:04,150 --> 00:36:09,690
happy to look at it. I personally really like the red stop sign with the LED

416
00:36:09,690 --> 00:36:13,870
squares around it on a solar panel. It gets your eyeballs and you stop at a

417
00:36:13,870 --> 00:36:16,990
stop sign and you do the same thing on the slow and the caution on the sidewalk

418
00:36:16,990 --> 00:36:23,350
ones. That's comparatively easy to do if the town is willing to have those in

419
00:36:23,350 --> 00:36:23,870
their municipality.

420
00:36:27,980 --> 00:36:33,200
What about exiting at Alfa Road? Do you have any, I mean you

421
00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:37,120
We talked about the Carroll Street one, but the end of Alpha Road is going to be terrible

422
00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:38,280
to try to make a left out of.

423
00:36:38,980 --> 00:36:39,700
Which answer?

424
00:36:40,020 --> 00:36:40,620
Wester East?

425
00:36:41,140 --> 00:36:42,100
I guess.

426
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:43,160
Left side of this man.

427
00:36:43,460 --> 00:36:43,840
Left side?

428
00:36:44,020 --> 00:36:44,120
West?

429
00:36:44,720 --> 00:36:44,840
Okay.

430
00:36:45,460 --> 00:36:45,820
Yeah.

431
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:51,020
So, if you try to make a left at the end of Alpha, I mean, I have a feeling that's going to be

432
00:36:51,020 --> 00:36:52,440
way more than a nine-sector right.

433
00:36:53,140 --> 00:36:54,200
Especially at 2.45.

434
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:59,240
So, I mean, if they talked, I mean, would you put in stop signs there?

435
00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:00,880
Is there traffic light in the idea?

436
00:37:01,300 --> 00:37:02,640
Is there anything of that sort?

437
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:09,000
I know we certainly have a stop sign, but I don't think I may I may have more stop signs on that will search

438
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:11,680
Because I mean a stop sign there is obviously

439
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:19,040
Good

440
00:37:21,730 --> 00:37:26,990
evening. My name is John Mazzell. I'm with Fox and associate Fox and associate the engineering record

441
00:37:26,990 --> 00:37:28,690
there will be a stop sign on

442
00:37:29,490 --> 00:37:30,790
the new leg

443
00:37:31,690 --> 00:37:33,630
at that intersection and

444
00:37:33,630 --> 00:37:40,030
the traffic study that's to be done would call out whether there is a warrant for a

445
00:37:40,030 --> 00:37:44,850
three-way stop sign or a signal that would be addressed in the traffic

446
00:37:44,850 --> 00:37:52,610
study and again the town can direct the traffic consultant in terms of what

447
00:37:52,610 --> 00:37:59,030
capture they want if it is part of that study to capture the NBR traffic just as

448
00:37:59,030 --> 00:38:01,410
was done in the 22 study.

449
00:38:18,470 --> 00:38:22,150
So, do you see the comment from the fire chief

450
00:38:22,150 --> 00:38:28,910
about having access to all sides of the assisted facility?

451
00:38:32,820 --> 00:38:34,540
He made a comment, a recommendation

452
00:38:34,540 --> 00:38:36,280
that he would ideally like to have access

453
00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:37,580
to all four sides, correct?

454
00:38:37,860 --> 00:38:38,520
Yeah, that is correct.

455
00:38:38,540 --> 00:38:40,280
He did say in an ideal world,

456
00:38:40,820 --> 00:38:45,260
access around four sides would be, you know, perfect.

457
00:38:45,260 --> 00:38:49,380
But he also realizes that that's not always feasible.

458
00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:55,040
So typically they like to have three or access around three sides.

459
00:38:55,300 --> 00:39:01,480
And that is something that we would address in detail at the site plan review for the assisted living facility.

460
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:09,560
It's understood in the senior living industry that the residents typically cannot self evacuate.

461
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:21,280
So all of your stairwells get built with large landings in their vicinity because once they make it to the stairway door or the staff gets in the stairway door, they're then in a fire sanctuary.

462
00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:26,600
This building is designed to tuck into the hillside.

463
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:31,500
Grayson is below it on page right as you are looking.

464
00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:35,640
So we're trying to conceal the vertical mass of the building,

465
00:39:36,780 --> 00:39:39,520
respecting the residents in Albert courts today.

466
00:39:39,780 --> 00:39:42,920
So it presents on the uphill side as a one-story building.

467
00:39:44,060 --> 00:39:46,540
We'll have to work that from the get-around.

468
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:47,660
It's going to be easy.

469
00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:52,360
You end up doing compacted gravel with grass over them,

470
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:59,640
load bearing pathways for your fire apparatus to get around the side of the building without actually having full-scale roads.

471
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:05,720
That'll be comparatively easy to do, page right even though we're doing, we are showing that as partial green space.

472
00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:09,480
And then you would be able to get in from the park side.

473
00:40:09,940 --> 00:40:14,380
So the vulnerability you're pointing out is behind the townhouses on the UC Street.

474
00:40:14,980 --> 00:40:20,280
But if we move north early, all we're doing is taking this larger building and

475
00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:22,180
and making it more visible to more people.

476
00:40:33,610 --> 00:40:35,510
So your traffic slides are up now.

477
00:40:35,750 --> 00:40:37,250
I apologize, it took me a minute to.

478
00:40:38,130 --> 00:40:39,910
Next slide, if you would, please.

479
00:40:40,410 --> 00:40:43,410
Let me call the date on that on the bottom right hand corner.

480
00:40:43,590 --> 00:40:45,910
This was a 30 August 2022 date.

481
00:40:46,270 --> 00:40:47,990
There is your list of the intersections

482
00:40:47,990 --> 00:40:51,750
that were studied as per the direction of planning and gym.

483
00:40:53,710 --> 00:40:56,510
And call the bold node out on the bottom.

484
00:40:57,330 --> 00:41:00,370
They did adjust to try to address

485
00:41:00,370 --> 00:41:06,690
the COVID change in world. Can we go next slide? I'm looking for the color

486
00:41:06,690 --> 00:41:12,870
graphic. So those are existing traffic volumes in May of 21 at North

487
00:41:12,870 --> 00:41:20,950
Carolyn Apple and at Roddy Eiler and Apple for evening weights. Let's go next

488
00:41:20,950 --> 00:41:21,630
slide.

489
00:41:23,910 --> 00:41:28,730
This would have been with all new communities that were in your

490
00:41:28,730 --> 00:41:33,210
pipeline at that time, add it in. That's your background

491
00:41:33,210 --> 00:41:37,090
training on top of your existing. And you can see the

492
00:41:37,090 --> 00:41:40,750
change there. And what I'm looking for is the next slide,

493
00:41:41,390 --> 00:41:46,850
which should add us, this was trip generation evening and

494
00:41:46,850 --> 00:41:53,510
morning rush for a 177 unit community. You're down at 100

495
00:41:53,510 --> 00:41:57,350
now. So these numbers don't match what's going on.

496
00:41:58,730 --> 00:42:04,890
you can see evening in and out and totals for both morning and evening and I'm still looking

497
00:42:04,890 --> 00:42:09,670
for next slide because I'm looking for the one that counts us. There we go.

498
00:42:11,990 --> 00:42:12,630
So,

499
00:42:14,570 --> 00:42:22,550
before we played 8 to 11 seconds AM and PM when we played 20 and 12. So we're adding four seconds

500
00:42:22,550 --> 00:42:27,890
in one case and in nine seconds and another at Carol and Apple's church.

501
00:42:28,710 --> 00:42:32,850
But, Madam Chairman, I hear you. I don't think you're just talking about traffic volume.

502
00:42:33,110 --> 00:42:37,390
I hear you talking about striping stop signs, go slows, cross walks.

503
00:42:38,690 --> 00:42:43,090
Ordinarily, again, we would deal with that with you at quote, preliminary plan stage.

504
00:42:43,450 --> 00:42:48,570
You approve the annexation, you approve the concept plan. We are back here to go through your full

505
00:42:48,570 --> 00:42:53,530
process, and that's, I believe, when that level of detail would ordinarily happen, Kelly.

506
00:42:53,750 --> 00:42:54,250
That is, John.

507
00:42:59,060 --> 00:43:00,860
So that's all I needed on the traffic study.

508
00:43:01,020 --> 00:43:03,040
So where was the nine seconds you were talking about?

509
00:43:03,100 --> 00:43:07,180
That was a bit in the 2021 study, and it would have predated this by a year.

510
00:43:07,260 --> 00:43:10,780
It was at the same intersection where we went from nine to eight.

511
00:43:11,240 --> 00:43:14,280
But when we did it the following year, the numbers got worse.

512
00:43:14,820 --> 00:43:19,800
So your AM went from 11 to a 20, you gained nine.

513
00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:25,920
this the PM went from an 8 to a 12 you gained 4 to basically double to say again

514
00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:27,240
basically doubled it yeah

515
00:43:30,410 --> 00:43:36,350
177 units yeah so when we update this it's gonna come back down

516
00:43:36,350 --> 00:43:41,290
we believe well when the traffic engineer updates it he'll come up with his own numbers

517
00:43:41,290 --> 00:43:50,710
exactly correct and also I just want to reiterate the fact that planning staff and

518
00:43:50,710 --> 00:43:55,810
And you all, as a planning commission, can make recommendations for intersection studies

519
00:43:55,810 --> 00:43:59,930
and different anomalies you would like them to take into consideration.

520
00:44:00,550 --> 00:44:06,730
So during this process, during this workshop, if there's something that you would like,

521
00:44:06,990 --> 00:44:12,290
you know, the traffic engineer to take into consideration, that's something that we need to

522
00:44:12,290 --> 00:44:18,450
start developing and making those list of items we want the traffic engineer to take into

523
00:44:18,450 --> 00:44:19,030
consideration.

524
00:44:19,030 --> 00:44:20,150
Madam

525
00:44:23,090 --> 00:44:28,030
Chairman, I see we got 15 minutes left in the workshop, so we're welcome to any

526
00:44:28,030 --> 00:44:28,610
other questions.

527
00:44:28,630 --> 00:44:33,290
What I've just handed you was one of the complaints we had last time was about vertical

528
00:44:33,290 --> 00:44:33,830
massing.

529
00:44:34,270 --> 00:44:41,090
Mind you, at that time we were doing four-story condominium apartment buildings, and although

530
00:44:41,090 --> 00:44:48,190
our height did not exceed the five condominium buildings in Albert courts today, I heard

531
00:44:48,190 --> 00:44:51,470
the citizens clearly say they didn't want that level of vertical massing.

532
00:44:52,090 --> 00:44:55,030
So this go around, part of what we did in Concept 2.

533
00:44:56,310 --> 00:44:59,950
Kelly, can we go back to the other...

534
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:29,640
So it's hard copy with everyone for the benefit of anyone watching. Can we go back to the actual map, a concept two version two, please? One of the considerations we did this time was we moved the age 55 plus senior living villa townhouses, which is a really fancy word for a primary bedroom and primary bath on the ground floor. Build all the doorways as a three o'opening

535
00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:35,640
zero threshold into the bath, put all the blocking and walls, and let a senior age out

536
00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:36,160
in the home.

537
00:45:36,700 --> 00:45:40,240
It still has two guest bedrooms upstairs for visiting family or grandchildren.

538
00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:46,280
We put them up the hill because they are a two-story structure.

539
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:52,400
So we wanted to reduce the vertical mass for our neighbors in Albert Courts.

540
00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:58,120
We put the three-story traditional townhouses at the bottom of the hill.

541
00:45:58,120 --> 00:46:06,020
So the cross section I've just given you is a slice through the community, roughly there,

542
00:46:06,740 --> 00:46:12,440
to show you how those roof lines, if you were looking at them from the side, starting

543
00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:18,700
with the Albert Court condominium building and going through us, what the vertical

544
00:46:18,700 --> 00:46:19,340
mass is.

545
00:46:19,740 --> 00:46:23,600
I at least wanted to get that one out since we had criticism on last time.

546
00:46:24,500 --> 00:46:26,520
But with 15 minutes to go, we're standing by.

547
00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:28,200
We can race through whatever you want to cover.

548
00:46:28,620 --> 00:46:35,180
And that is in our master plan of preserving the senior view in our communities.

549
00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:35,940
Absolutely.

550
00:46:36,580 --> 00:46:37,720
That is a good point to make.

551
00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:40,940
What else do you guys got?

552
00:46:43,620 --> 00:46:43,960
Questions?

553
00:46:45,740 --> 00:46:50,560
It's probably premature at this stage, but vegetation that you're looking at putting in.

554
00:46:50,920 --> 00:46:56,620
Will that grow up to be a block to the folks who are sitting at the top of it?

555
00:46:56,620 --> 00:46:57,220
They don't basically.

556
00:46:59,290 --> 00:47:01,210
I'm trying to interpret your question.

557
00:47:01,650 --> 00:47:04,470
Do you want vegetation or don't you want vegetation?

558
00:47:05,770 --> 00:47:07,650
That sounds like not super tall.

559
00:47:08,310 --> 00:47:09,470
That was the question, basically.

560
00:47:09,770 --> 00:47:10,650
You definitely want vegetation.

561
00:47:10,650 --> 00:47:12,490
The question is from a height standpoint.

562
00:47:12,990 --> 00:47:16,730
So your ordinance has a requirement for landscaping.

563
00:47:17,550 --> 00:47:19,310
And landscaping is planned.

564
00:47:19,670 --> 00:47:23,270
And John, I believe we are showing a minimum 10 foot buffer

565
00:47:24,050 --> 00:47:25,310
all around the property.

566
00:47:25,310 --> 00:47:33,070
Okay, okay, so we're possible we're running our nature running the nature trails are on the perimeter of the property also

567
00:47:33,710 --> 00:47:41,050
What I hear you saying is maybe on the back of these senior villas notice we didn't put the pathway there

568
00:47:41,910 --> 00:47:47,010
That's probably not where you want me putting Tuscan pines that grow 60 feet tall, right?

569
00:47:47,510 --> 00:47:48,790
Your point is taken

570
00:47:48,790 --> 00:47:56,370
Okay, yeah, again, back to what you were saying Craig that is something that we would work on during the site plan

571
00:47:56,370 --> 00:48:01,870
really process what kind of vegetation what kind of plan of buffer that we would want to see

572
00:48:01,870 --> 00:48:10,650
some and you know take into consideration public comment and that I remember that for previous discussions on other properties later in the game

573
00:48:10,650 --> 00:48:15,170
But I thought I'd just go ahead and ask now in case you know we're thinking about I just want to clarify that

574
00:48:23,240 --> 00:48:28,000
We're not taking public comment right now. We're just workshopping the Simmer's annexation petition.

575
00:48:30,810 --> 00:48:31,230
No?

576
00:48:36,950 --> 00:48:40,770
Questions from my engineer on stormwater or other issues.

577
00:48:42,170 --> 00:48:44,870
If you want to touch on the stormwater management, that would be great.

578
00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:57,500
Again, John Mazzell and the Fox and Associates.

579
00:48:57,960 --> 00:49:03,260
Now generally our stormwater management has to meet the state of Maryland stormwater.

580
00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:10,060
ordinance and the Fredrick County ordinance. They are the authority, the approval authority, and

581
00:49:10,060 --> 00:49:16,280
inspection authority in Fredrick County. So, our stormwater will have to meet that criteria.

582
00:49:16,420 --> 00:49:22,020
What is shown on this plan is a conceptual stormwater management plan. The small areas

583
00:49:22,020 --> 00:49:29,480
that you see scattered out are called ESDs, environmentally sensitive design facilities that are with

584
00:49:29,480 --> 00:49:34,920
they call bioreattention facilities, there's a whole gamut of things that will be utilized when

585
00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:42,380
we do this design, what they call rooftop disconnects, non-root top disconnects, bioreattention

586
00:49:42,380 --> 00:49:46,700
facilities, you name it, to meet our requirement.

587
00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:53,280
It's the coin at ESD to the maximum extent practicable.

588
00:49:53,280 --> 00:50:00,380
So, we are put under a microscope to provide stormwater management to meet that.

589
00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:08,440
So, this is a concept those may ultimately when we get into the final design and get

590
00:50:08,440 --> 00:50:13,960
into the weeds on this, those facilities may move around, they might amoeba in size.

591
00:50:15,260 --> 00:50:20,780
A lot of things go into that, degrading of the site, how the water is going to move, how

592
00:50:20,780 --> 00:50:26,560
we integrate it, but this just gives you a very high-level look at what stormwater management

593
00:50:26,560 --> 00:50:34,440
is going to do. Generally, when we're done, the code says that if you provide ESD to the

594
00:50:34,440 --> 00:50:41,660
maximum extent practical, this site will function as a wooded site in a post-developed condition

595
00:50:41,660 --> 00:50:43,080
when it's all built.

596
00:50:45,500 --> 00:50:47,240
That's kind of it in a nutshell,

597
00:50:49,820 --> 00:50:51,520
but that's a pretty rigorous

598
00:50:51,520 --> 00:50:57,380
review. I believe the town consultant reviews it as well. So there's a lot of eyes on it.

599
00:51:04,130 --> 00:51:12,620
If I read it correctly, I know this is preliminary. At the base of the picture looks like it's your

600
00:51:13,400 --> 00:51:19,560
upper level if you will water capture and it runs underground down to the big sort of

601
00:51:19,560 --> 00:51:22,500
There's like shape down at the, at the time.

602
00:51:23,220 --> 00:51:26,480
Where does it go after that, or is it just retained there?

603
00:51:26,860 --> 00:51:27,460
Is it retained there?

604
00:51:27,540 --> 00:51:31,720
Well, this is just, this will be what we call an engineered channel.

605
00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:32,220
Okay.

606
00:51:32,980 --> 00:51:35,340
That will convey water through the site.

607
00:51:35,680 --> 00:51:36,660
Excuse me, John.

608
00:51:37,020 --> 00:51:41,280
Can you take that mic with you so that everybody can hear, please?

609
00:51:42,320 --> 00:51:46,560
The engineered channel will convey water safely through the site.

610
00:51:46,560 --> 00:51:52,980
It will bypass this large facility, go around it to where it discharges.

611
00:51:55,380 --> 00:52:04,100
So we describe this as an engineer channel, we will route it and design it based on the flow that's in it.

612
00:52:04,340 --> 00:52:13,220
We will have to demonstrate that it's designed according to the flow that's in it and that it is stabilized.

613
00:52:13,220 --> 00:52:20,680
In a post-developed, excuse me, condition, there will be culverts underneath of the proposed

614
00:52:20,680 --> 00:52:23,620
roadways in these locations.

615
00:52:24,720 --> 00:52:26,680
Where does it go once it leaves the property?

616
00:52:28,280 --> 00:52:31,600
Currently, it comes down to Apple's Church.

617
00:52:31,740 --> 00:52:38,000
There is a culvert that's here that really controls the entire site because we will likely have

618
00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:39,500
to improve that culvert.

619
00:52:40,980 --> 00:52:48,240
But the site will be controlled to the extent that we can put water through and over the road.

620
00:52:48,240 --> 00:52:53,640
The county has a requirement that I think in a 100 year storm event, depending on the classification of the road,

621
00:52:53,780 --> 00:52:58,800
you may be able to put as much as 8 inches of water over the roadway in a 100 year storm.

622
00:52:59,180 --> 00:53:04,760
Again, we have to meet their criteria, they're going to review that, we have to meet their criteria.

623
00:53:04,760 --> 00:53:04,880
Yeah.

624
00:53:05,260 --> 00:53:05,560
Okay.

625
00:53:06,100 --> 00:53:13,200
So, John, can you further clarify that larger storm water management facility, that is going

626
00:53:13,200 --> 00:53:18,680
to control the water, the storm water runoff for the development, though, correct?

627
00:53:18,900 --> 00:53:19,080
That's correct.

628
00:53:19,080 --> 00:53:25,260
So, right now, what you were speaking to is existing storm water runoff that is running

629
00:53:25,260 --> 00:53:33,540
to a facility and would not go to the larger facility for the development that the applicant

630
00:53:33,540 --> 00:53:34,160
is planning.

631
00:53:34,160 --> 00:53:46,760
That's correct, all of the proposed, the water that comes off of the proposed condition will be conveyed through storm drain systems to this larger facility.

632
00:53:47,080 --> 00:54:04,140
So you're taking water from the impervious surfaces, rooftops, running them through these small ESDs that then get connected to a storm drain system that is conveyed down to the large overall facility to provide quantity management.

633
00:54:04,140 --> 00:54:16,040
It's a combination of all the different practices that get some slight attenuation and control in the small ESDs.

634
00:54:16,060 --> 00:54:22,320
They're mainly designed for say the one-year storm event, your typical storm events.

635
00:54:22,600 --> 00:54:27,620
That's where most of the pollutants are when they're washed off of the impervious areas.

636
00:54:28,020 --> 00:54:31,680
But this is where all the quantity controlled will occur.

637
00:54:31,680 --> 00:54:32,040
I

638
00:54:38,540 --> 00:54:46,000
think for the sake of time, we should probably wrap up our workshop here, Mr. Cross.

639
00:54:48,730 --> 00:54:51,560
My team's avoiding the 800 pound gorilla in the corner.

640
00:54:52,760 --> 00:54:56,960
What John Stess described is what happens for Albert Meadows.

641
00:54:57,880 --> 00:55:04,540
ESD, the MEP and the bioswales spread out around the community going to the pond at the bottom

642
00:55:04,540 --> 00:55:11,380
of the hill which provides us the quantity we need and then feeds across the street. And

643
00:55:11,380 --> 00:55:19,360
sir, there is a blue line stream buried in the woods on page top that that water eventually

644
00:55:19,360 --> 00:55:28,560
goes to. Okay, the 800 pound gorilla is Albert courts. And what is shown on page bottom on the plans

645
00:55:28,560 --> 00:55:37,180
you are looking at is a possibility, a proposal, for a stormwater facility that the county has

646
00:55:37,180 --> 00:55:48,360
said they would allow to be built to 1996 standards, not ESD, the MEP, to accommodate the stormwater

647
00:55:48,360 --> 00:55:54,760
coming off the nine acres that is an Albert courts today. And then that water would be conveyed through

648
00:55:54,760 --> 00:56:02,900
our site down and around. That is an option for discussion by all the parties in the month's

649
00:56:02,900 --> 00:56:03,020
set.

650
00:56:04,180 --> 00:56:08,780
Yeah, and I think they'll be followed since we have a couple of minutes left. We might have some

651
00:56:08,780 --> 00:56:12,160
follow-up questions to that during the public hearing before we take public comment on that.

652
00:56:12,580 --> 00:56:12,780
I understood.

653
00:56:13,020 --> 00:56:13,540
Okay with it.

654
00:56:13,740 --> 00:56:14,040
Understood.

655
00:56:14,480 --> 00:56:14,800
Okay.

656
00:56:15,260 --> 00:56:15,620
Thank you.

657
00:56:16,140 --> 00:56:16,700
Thank you.

658
00:56:17,360 --> 00:56:22,260
Any last calls before I take a motion to close the workshop?

659
00:56:23,980 --> 00:56:25,380
She's making those things with the wheelchair.

660
00:56:26,160 --> 00:56:26,700
Don't fool her.

661
00:56:26,820 --> 00:56:27,580
Yeah, she's having fun.

662
00:56:30,800 --> 00:56:32,380
She's not having fun.

663
00:56:32,380 --> 00:56:32,920
That's all right.

664
00:56:33,660 --> 00:56:33,940
Sure.

665
00:56:35,980 --> 00:56:37,420
Here's the motion to close the wheelchair.

666
00:56:38,360 --> 00:56:39,300
So I have a second.

667
00:56:39,540 --> 00:56:39,820
Second.

668
00:56:40,200 --> 00:56:41,980
All those in favor, please raise your right hand.

669
00:56:42,560 --> 00:56:43,300
Thank you.

670
00:56:43,940 --> 00:56:45,000
Workshop is adjourned.

671
00:56:46,480 --> 00:56:48,440
Let me try to use the little ghost bathroom real quick.

672
00:56:51,310 --> 00:56:52,190
Quick recess.

673
00:56:52,190 --> 00:56:52,430
Yes.

674
00:57:41,330 --> 00:57:51,810
Good evening. Welcome to the March planning and zoning regular meeting today is Thursday, March 27th.

675
00:57:53,760 --> 00:57:58,120
The first item on the agenda is the zoning inspectors report. Kelly?

676
00:57:58,900 --> 00:58:08,120
Okay. So since our last meeting in February, we issued 19 zoning certificates, three work for

677
00:58:08,120 --> 00:58:16,800
For new residential dwellings, 11 were for residential accessory uses, 4 were for commercial

678
00:58:16,800 --> 00:58:21,580
accessory uses, and 1 was a no zoning required certificate.

679
00:58:22,240 --> 00:58:27,500
So far this year we have issued 34 zoning certificates, and last year at this time it was

680
00:58:27,500 --> 00:58:28,020
45.

681
00:58:30,940 --> 00:58:31,480
Thank you Kelly.

682
00:58:31,920 --> 00:58:33,420
Anybody have any questions for Kelly?

683
00:58:41,640 --> 00:58:47,320
All right, the next two items, I'm going to go ahead before we get into the weeds and

684
00:58:47,320 --> 00:58:50,840
And go ahead and swear anybody in that would like to give testimony tonight.

685
00:58:52,880 --> 00:58:55,080
Please leave, raise your right hand and stand.

686
00:58:59,840 --> 00:59:10,460
Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the response is given and statements made in this hearing before the planning and planning and zoning commission will be the whole truth and nothing but the truth if so answer I do.

687
00:59:10,680 --> 00:59:11,240
I do.

688
00:59:11,660 --> 00:59:12,040
Thank you.

689
00:59:13,900 --> 00:59:14,740
Point of order.

690
00:59:15,500 --> 00:59:18,680
We do have a couple of seats up here folks if you want to fill in.

691
00:59:18,680 --> 00:59:25,120
When you do come to the podium, please state your name if you are a resident and if you've

692
00:59:25,700 --> 00:59:26,900
been sworn in.

693
00:59:32,760 --> 00:59:33,020
All right.

694
00:59:33,100 --> 00:59:42,260
Next item on the agenda is discussion and action on the preliminary plan C1-PP-2025-01

695
00:59:42,840 --> 00:59:48,820
Mountain Gate Business Park, Thermalt Business Park, Axis Road, situated east of Goodwill.

696
00:59:51,620 --> 00:59:59,860
Alright, so tonight we have the preliminary plan which is the next step in the site plan

697
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:07,600
Review process. The applicant is here, adjoining our, adjoining property owners were notified by certified mail and the site was posted.

698
01:00:08,160 --> 01:00:08,280
The

699
01:00:10,550 --> 01:00:18,890
preliminary site plan before you tonight is for the property owned by Mountain Gate Business Park. The engineering firm for the applicant is be in our design group of Frederick.

700
01:00:19,650 --> 01:00:31,470
The property consists of two parcels. One parcel is where Goodwill was constructed. And the other parcel is the over 18 acres and size.

701
01:00:31,470 --> 01:00:34,270
and is outlined on the screen in yellow.

702
01:00:35,090 --> 01:00:38,770
This large parcel consists of a platted road connection

703
01:00:38,770 --> 01:00:40,350
to Thermont Boulevard.

704
01:00:40,730 --> 01:00:43,690
Parcel includes a forest retention ordinance area

705
01:00:43,690 --> 01:00:47,610
that is highlighted in green and consists of about seven acres.

706
01:00:48,550 --> 01:00:50,690
The area in red is the area that parcel

707
01:00:50,690 --> 01:00:52,910
that is vacant without forest easement

708
01:00:53,650 --> 01:00:55,530
and has commercial zoning.

709
01:00:56,190 --> 01:00:58,850
The area in orange has been before the Planning and Zoning

710
01:00:58,850 --> 01:01:02,470
commission previously for a townhouse community in the R5

711
01:01:02,470 --> 01:01:07,230
zoning district. The non-highlighted area is the electric line

712
01:01:07,230 --> 01:01:11,750
easement for the for Thermont and Potomac Addison. There's

713
01:01:11,750 --> 01:01:16,130
power lines running through there. The zoning designation of

714
01:01:16,130 --> 01:01:20,630
the property in the area is general business. The property is

715
01:01:20,630 --> 01:01:24,610
connected to Thermont Boulevard and sits directly adjacent to

716
01:01:24,610 --> 01:01:28,410
the Goodwill site. The applicants intent with the access

717
01:01:28,410 --> 01:01:35,230
road is to create a roadway to the property that is zone general business and is undeveloped

718
01:01:35,230 --> 01:01:39,690
and it's located to the rear of the Sonoco gas station on Frederick Road.

719
01:01:40,530 --> 01:01:46,710
The site area included in the access road is slightly more than an acre in size and it

720
01:01:46,710 --> 01:01:48,430
is zone general business.

721
01:01:50,920 --> 01:01:56,820
The preliminary plan for the access road proposes the development of a site, or the process

722
01:01:56,820 --> 01:02:02,280
a site plan for the access road that will simultaneously amend the Goodwill site plan to create

723
01:02:02,280 --> 01:02:08,640
direct connection to the Goodwill parking lot while creating access to the commercial zone

724
01:02:08,640 --> 01:02:16,020
property that does not currently have road access. The proposed access road intentionally does not

725
01:02:16,020 --> 01:02:23,420
follow the platted location for the road due to the impact of wetlands. As platted it would

726
01:02:23,420 --> 01:02:33,360
disturb approximately 15,500 square feet, but as with the revised route, it would only

727
01:02:33,360 --> 01:02:38,920
disturb about 1800 square feet. So that is a significant reduction in wetland impact.

728
01:02:39,840 --> 01:02:46,340
The road location was shifted towards Goodwill or Northwest to, again, greatly reduce

729
01:02:46,340 --> 01:02:52,260
those wetland impacts. The proposed roadway path will still impact wetlands, but again,

730
01:02:52,260 --> 01:03:00,580
it is greatly reduced. And it is the path that was recommended or it was recommended by MDE to

731
01:03:00,580 --> 01:03:09,040
reduce wetlands impact to the greatest degree possible, which again the applicant did follow their advice.

732
01:03:14,220 --> 01:03:21,220
Here again is an aerial. I just, you know, I get a lot of questions where exactly this is located at.

733
01:03:21,900 --> 01:03:24,180
So, again, here's the area of the site.

734
01:03:24,680 --> 01:03:28,540
We can see approximately the access road location

735
01:03:28,540 --> 01:03:30,680
in relation to things that we know.

736
01:03:31,320 --> 01:03:32,960
Of course, this is just my sketch,

737
01:03:32,960 --> 01:03:35,900
so it's not eloquent or to scale,

738
01:03:36,200 --> 01:03:37,960
but it does give us the general idea

739
01:03:37,960 --> 01:03:39,860
of the location of the access road,

740
01:03:40,260 --> 01:03:44,400
which is the purple amoeba up there on the screen,

741
01:03:44,880 --> 01:03:47,240
and it does connect to Thermot Boulevard.

742
01:03:47,800 --> 01:03:50,160
Again, the area outlined in yellow

743
01:03:50,160 --> 01:03:55,000
is owned by the applicants the area the area shaded in red is zone general

744
01:03:55,000 --> 01:04:02,020
business which is why they're building this access road to gain access. The

745
01:04:02,020 --> 01:04:07,660
green area is in a permanent force retention ordinance easements and the

746
01:04:07,660 --> 01:04:15,780
area in orange is the R5 zoning district which has been before you previously. The

747
01:04:15,780 --> 01:04:23,400
The town-owned passive park is the pie-shaped parcel, adjoining the green area, and some additional

748
01:04:23,400 --> 01:04:30,000
landmarks you can see on the screen there, the Y's location, the Sonoco gas station, Fair

749
01:04:30,000 --> 01:04:36,020
Oaks community, and the library, which is kind of cut off on the screen there, but that's

750
01:04:36,020 --> 01:04:37,600
the location of the library as well.

751
01:04:42,530 --> 01:04:48,130
Existing conditions, a portion of the proposed road is on the Goodwill site and the remainder

752
01:04:48,130 --> 01:04:54,450
is on vacant unimproved land. Proposed site plan would amend the Goodwill site plan by adding

753
01:04:54,450 --> 01:05:00,850
direct access to the southeast side of the construction, well no longer the constructed site, as well

754
01:05:00,850 --> 01:05:07,210
as adjusting the storm water management facilities to accommodate the roadway. The access road is

755
01:05:07,210 --> 01:05:14,170
proposed to be 30 foot wide paid roadway and is engineered or designed to accommodate tractor trailers

756
01:05:14,170 --> 01:05:18,210
and other vehicles on the roadway.

757
01:05:18,510 --> 01:05:25,150
The roadway appears to be able to accommodate truck traffic, but it would be good to have

758
01:05:25,150 --> 01:05:29,710
the applicants, engineer provide us at least on one of the plan sheets or provide a new

759
01:05:29,710 --> 01:05:36,190
plan sheet showing truck turning of movements just to ensure that indeed the 18 lillers can

760
01:05:36,190 --> 01:05:37,990
navigate the proposed roadway.

761
01:05:39,730 --> 01:05:48,370
Sidewalks are provided along the road, but they are not all shown in the same grades or the grade scale gradient on the plan.

762
01:05:49,730 --> 01:06:06,450
There is also wording on the plan that states the future sidewalk, which staff is recommending that it be changed to remove the word future to ensure that sidewalks are constructed simultaneously with the road.

763
01:06:07,530 --> 01:06:12,810
The proposed site plan is showing some grading on the town property.

764
01:06:13,850 --> 01:06:18,630
So of course the applicant must obtain permission and a temporary construction easement from

765
01:06:18,630 --> 01:06:19,790
the board of commissioners.

766
01:06:22,440 --> 01:06:26,620
The applicant will not be installing any utilities with the access road.

767
01:06:26,820 --> 01:06:31,280
They have an access easement already to the site that will allow them to take utilities

768
01:06:31,280 --> 01:06:31,860
that way.

769
01:06:31,860 --> 01:06:38,460
So we don't have to worry about utility installation with the construction of the road.

770
01:06:40,740 --> 01:06:45,820
Maryland Department of Environment permits are required due to the presence of wetlands

771
01:06:45,820 --> 01:06:51,300
and the property owner and staff met with MDE on site who indicated that reducing wetland

772
01:06:51,300 --> 01:06:58,580
impacts to the greatest degree possible would be a preferred path while the town is also maintaining

773
01:06:58,580 --> 01:07:05,100
the need to have a square road intersection at that point.

774
01:07:06,440 --> 01:07:11,540
Stormwater and erosion and sediment control will need to be obtained, our approvals will

775
01:07:11,540 --> 01:07:16,060
need to be obtained from Frederick County and they do all the review and approval of those

776
01:07:16,060 --> 01:07:16,520
plans.

777
01:07:18,280 --> 01:07:26,100
The access road will be private, but it will provide access to sites, the goodwill site

778
01:07:26,100 --> 01:07:29,240
as well as this commercialized own portion of property.

779
01:07:30,240 --> 01:07:35,040
So it is important that an access and maintenance agreement be submitted

780
01:07:35,040 --> 01:07:39,500
to the town so that Leslie, our town attorney, can review it to make sure

781
01:07:39,500 --> 01:07:45,660
that each property owner is fairly responsible for maintenance of that road.

782
01:07:46,620 --> 01:07:50,500
And of course, the agreement does need to be recorded in land records

783
01:07:50,500 --> 01:07:54,280
and that reporting information provided to town staff so we can ensure that

784
01:07:54,280 --> 01:08:01,860
that does occur. So staff does recommend conditional approval of the

785
01:08:01,860 --> 01:08:07,440
preliminary site plan and staff did make eight

786
01:08:10,120 --> 01:08:13,240
plus recommended recommended

787
01:08:13,240 --> 01:08:19,520
conditions of approval but most of them are standard items. The applicant must

788
01:08:19,520 --> 01:08:24,440
obtain their MDE permit approval. The applicant must obtain Frederick County

789
01:08:24,440 --> 01:08:30,120
approval for storm water management and for erosion and sediment control. That all sidewalks

790
01:08:30,120 --> 01:08:38,040
should be shown on the site plan in the same gray scale, gradients, and future removed from any

791
01:08:38,040 --> 01:08:43,900
sidewalk indication that the sidewalk must be constructed with the road construction. A temporary

792
01:08:43,900 --> 01:08:49,760
construction easement must be obtained from the Board of Commissioners. An access and maintenance

793
01:08:49,760 --> 01:09:02,580
This is an incident agreement should be provided to the town and the town attorney review it to make sure that each property owner's property owner is fairly responsible for their maintenance of that roadway.

794
01:09:04,520 --> 01:09:16,480
Also asking the applicant to have their engineer provide on one of the plan sheets or separate plan sheet just indicating that those tractor trailer maneuvers can be made on that roadway safely.

795
01:09:17,160 --> 01:09:24,260
And then, of course, we have three minor edits, which are the north arrow on the site plan,

796
01:09:25,620 --> 01:09:33,820
having on sheet 7 and 8, the seal and signature of the engineers applied to the site plan on

797
01:09:34,220 --> 01:09:43,060
page 7 and 8, and then also on sheet 2, we need the appropriate town signature blocks, which

798
01:09:43,060 --> 01:09:45,820
is missing from that plan sheet, but it's on all the other ones.

799
01:09:47,340 --> 01:09:48,020
So, I'll have.

800
01:09:48,660 --> 01:09:49,800
Thanks, and the applicant is here.

801
01:09:52,080 --> 01:09:52,820
Questions for Kelly?

802
01:09:54,380 --> 01:09:55,620
Let us know, to be there.

803
01:09:55,960 --> 01:10:02,480
I have one before we bring out the applicant, so I had asked somebody from MD to be able to

804
01:10:02,480 --> 01:10:06,740
be here again, you kindly responded, you know, that they're on their own working schedule.

805
01:10:07,420 --> 01:10:12,940
So I did contact MD to try to understand, like, you know, the meanings and the process

806
01:10:12,940 --> 01:10:14,400
for what they're looking at.

807
01:10:15,080 --> 01:10:17,660
So I just want to make sure when you guys met with MBE,

808
01:10:18,760 --> 01:10:26,560
the gentleman that I spoke with said that the future development of the site would be of concern to MBE,

809
01:10:27,300 --> 01:10:29,200
because the wetlands are being disturbed.

810
01:10:30,060 --> 01:10:32,880
They would like to understand the scope of that.

811
01:10:33,900 --> 01:10:38,160
And then also just to ensure that they're looking at all the options,

812
01:10:38,500 --> 01:10:41,220
there was an option to come off of the main road.

813
01:10:41,220 --> 01:10:51,700
and the applicant is choosing to come off of this particular site they direct they said that they would like to know that as well when they're getting their permit.

814
01:10:52,240 --> 01:11:01,760
So I just want to make sure as I understand it that's actually what's happening behind the scenes to be as openly because I know people have been concerned about the wetlands.

815
01:11:02,280 --> 01:11:08,220
And I know that it's just a minus fuel amount but I think that the gentleman told me that there's a 35 foot buffer.

816
01:11:08,220 --> 01:11:13,600
So, you know, the concern is this area is right off the 15. There's a lot of run-off.

817
01:11:13,760 --> 01:11:16,240
There's a lot of impervious surface already coming through there.

818
01:11:16,520 --> 01:11:21,120
So those trees kind of act as a, you know, the first point of protection

819
01:11:21,120 --> 01:11:26,940
and before it gets all the way back there into a very marshy area, subsequently feeding the,

820
01:11:26,940 --> 01:11:30,600
I think it's hunting. Is it hunting creek that's back there?

821
01:11:31,500 --> 01:11:34,840
Which, you know, people are like, oh, we have our, we already have a water issue here,

822
01:11:34,840 --> 01:11:40,980
you know, just trying to do our diligence and making sure since it isn't our master plan to conserve the wetlands.

823
01:11:41,520 --> 01:11:52,000
I was trying to figure out what actual, are we in the Blue Ridge or we in the Piedmont part of the wetlands map?

824
01:11:52,660 --> 01:11:57,300
I still can't figure that out of exactly where we are, you know, with that.

825
01:11:57,300 --> 01:11:58,240
I'm sure I have to research that.

826
01:11:59,500 --> 01:12:02,260
The applicant's engineer might be able to answer that question.

827
01:12:02,260 --> 01:12:10,500
Okay, just those those couple of questions. Um, and do we have like, is there a way for us to like actually look at

828
01:12:11,360 --> 01:12:15,500
real time the actual disturbance of the the trees?

829
01:12:16,400 --> 01:12:20,100
I know you say 1800 square feet, but like what does it actually look like?

830
01:12:20,340 --> 01:12:28,140
I know we have the map, but like overlaying it on the actual Google Earth to see what that would look like with the with the buffer.

831
01:12:28,140 --> 01:12:30,140
I don't have that capability.

832
01:12:30,620 --> 01:12:31,260
The applicant might.

833
01:12:33,350 --> 01:12:34,650
We'll invite the applicant up.

834
01:12:34,910 --> 01:12:36,150
We're going to have the other questions for staff.

835
01:12:46,490 --> 01:12:48,790
Good evening, Bill Brennan with being our design group

836
01:12:48,790 --> 01:12:51,290
and Craig McLeath, the applicant is also here.

837
01:12:52,890 --> 01:12:55,090
Basic, let's address the,

838
01:12:56,010 --> 01:12:58,730
go through a little bit of the MDE permitting process.

839
01:12:59,730 --> 01:13:03,250
Back in August, we met, we had a pre-application with MDE.

840
01:13:04,270 --> 01:13:05,810
Town was invited to the site.

841
01:13:06,110 --> 01:13:07,130
We had some discussions.

842
01:13:07,130 --> 01:13:09,890
We have two alternates that was discussed.

843
01:13:11,790 --> 01:13:18,930
One with MDE was basically bringing the road through eliminating this ESD and doing an

844
01:13:18,930 --> 01:13:25,770
offset intersection at Thermont Boulevard, which MDE light because it really pushed us

845
01:13:25,770 --> 01:13:28,330
out of all the wet, most of the wetlands.

846
01:13:29,690 --> 01:13:36,250
Town had an issue with it because we had an offset intersection with a major entrance

847
01:13:36,250 --> 01:13:47,070
at WICE, so we also had this alternate, which was a compromise in between, and MDE thought

848
01:13:47,070 --> 01:13:52,030
that was a reasonable alternative at the pre-application meeting.

849
01:13:53,430 --> 01:13:59,010
With the preliminary plan approval or preliminary site plan approval, we're going to move to the

850
01:13:59,010 --> 01:14:09,270
step with MDE, which is what they call basically the wetland groups will do an actual jurisdictional

851
01:14:09,270 --> 01:14:12,990
determination of where the wetland boundaries are.

852
01:14:13,910 --> 01:14:22,210
And that gets flagged, MDE comes out, reviews it, agrees or moves the line depending upon

853
01:14:22,210 --> 01:14:24,830
soil conditions, hydrology, vegetation,

854
01:14:25,490 --> 01:14:27,910
or the three criteria that they look at.

855
01:14:29,170 --> 01:14:31,550
At that time, we go out, survey it,

856
01:14:31,670 --> 01:14:35,070
and then we actually determine what the impacts are.

857
01:14:35,650 --> 01:14:38,450
Right now on this plan,

858
01:14:40,090 --> 01:14:44,470
in blue, this blue boundary right here

859
01:14:45,650 --> 01:14:48,070
is the edge of the wetlands.

860
01:14:48,070 --> 01:14:52,910
but it hasn't been approved by MDE at this point.

861
01:14:53,870 --> 01:14:59,390
The dashed blue line is the buffer area, 25 foot buffer area.

862
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:29,860
And this site is also in what we call a tier two area, so we'll also have additional reviews for gluten loading on that. So this site does have an extra step in it. Do you know what does tier two mean? Do you know? Do I know I'm not a wetland person, but a tier two is basically you have, I'm going to say class three, natural trout stream, hunting creek.

863
01:15:29,860 --> 01:15:36,800
So therefore, you have your additional review and make sure that you have a reduction in pollutant loading on the stream

864
01:15:36,800 --> 01:15:46,400
because they're trying to keep the natural streams and temperature loading down to the minimum.

865
01:15:47,680 --> 01:15:56,580
The positive on this site is that we do on the, Kelly, you want to go to the overall with the forest easement?

866
01:15:58,540 --> 01:16:07,260
Yeah, where the fro areas, the FRO, that's basically the majority of the wetlands on the rest of the site down in that area, the wet area.

867
01:16:07,960 --> 01:16:16,760
So as we move on to develop the general commercial area, that is the higher side, the high side, and no wetlands in that area.

868
01:16:17,280 --> 01:16:22,740
So we are staying away from the majority of wetlands down in the forest of the area.

869
01:16:24,120 --> 01:16:32,280
So, when we get the preliminary site plan approval, we'll move to the next step, actually

870
01:16:33,920 --> 01:16:42,240
delineating the wet landsline, getting MD out there, finishing up the report, processing

871
01:16:42,240 --> 01:16:49,840
the final plans, such as the culvert crossings, and finishing up that engineering in the

872
01:16:49,840 --> 01:16:53,080
Smith, M.D.E. and Frederick County in the town for their review.

873
01:16:54,180 --> 01:16:56,720
And that's when we move into final construction documents.

874
01:16:57,080 --> 01:17:02,440
And we're not going to, I know Kelly has on the preliminary plan, the first three items

875
01:17:02,440 --> 01:17:06,680
permits, but those permits aren't going to be released until we have final engineering

876
01:17:06,680 --> 01:17:09,200
documents and approval for that.

877
01:17:10,240 --> 01:17:18,220
Item number four, we have the, do I go back to the preliminary site plan, Kelly, please.

878
01:17:19,920 --> 01:17:32,680
item number four, we are proposing the sidewalk to be connected to the existing goodwill and up to this point, but we do show this area as future.

879
01:17:34,060 --> 01:17:39,280
We really don't want to put that in until the site plan is approved on the back end.

880
01:17:39,780 --> 01:17:46,180
We really don't want to take people and drop them to nowhere.

881
01:17:47,700 --> 01:17:58,440
We would rather defer that sidewalk, the construction of this sidewalk, when we have a site for people to go to.

882
01:18:01,070 --> 01:18:06,470
We just don't want to bring them somewhere and drop them off in the middle of the forested area.

883
01:18:07,110 --> 01:18:15,230
We'd rather defer that until we have a site plan and have it constructed during site plan review if that's possible.

884
01:18:15,230 --> 01:18:19,590
Well, that was our thought on that, that's why we haven't.

885
01:18:20,010 --> 01:18:25,470
Otherwise, we recognize we have to have the temporary construction easement where at

886
01:18:25,470 --> 01:18:31,670
the intersection, the roadway intersection is well above the town lot.

887
01:18:32,670 --> 01:18:39,270
So in order to make the roadway 35 foot width and get everything in there, we're going

888
01:18:39,270 --> 01:18:44,850
to have to get a temporary construction easement, which we will work with the town and process

889
01:18:44,850 --> 01:18:48,230
just that through and go through the mayor and commissioners for that.

890
01:18:50,630 --> 01:18:58,230
And we did some on this alignment, we already did some preliminary tractor trailer movements

891
01:18:58,230 --> 01:19:00,270
and we'll just make that part of the plan.

892
01:19:00,430 --> 01:19:02,730
We'll be glad to share that.

893
01:19:03,530 --> 01:19:09,090
It was kind of a rough draft but we'll get that into final form for everybody for the final

894
01:19:09,090 --> 01:19:09,690
site plan.

895
01:19:09,690 --> 01:19:16,430
Are you anticipating a high volume of tractor trailer traffic on this road? No. No.

896
01:19:17,190 --> 01:19:25,390
But you're going to have a commercial user in the back with deliveries. Yeah. Good will.

897
01:19:25,590 --> 01:19:31,830
And granted, they're able to are loading docs on the other side. But when a larger road goes through,

898
01:19:35,000 --> 01:19:41,040
instead of them maybe winding going back out through their driveway, which is a little bit

899
01:19:41,040 --> 01:19:45,980
to the north of here, they might just make a circular route and come out to

900
01:19:45,980 --> 01:19:55,920
Thermal Boulevard to the right. So, that's, yeah. And I think good wills, what one

901
01:19:55,920 --> 01:19:59,160
are they, I think they mentioned they were only going to have like one or two per

902
01:19:59,160 --> 01:20:03,160
week or something. I don't remember all the stuff in my head, but yeah. Yeah, we're not.

903
01:20:03,160 --> 01:20:10,640
Yeah, Sanoco is going to have a lot more truck traffic than we have.

904
01:20:11,360 --> 01:20:16,900
I mean, basically it's going to be deliveries for the commercial facility, whatever it is.

905
01:20:17,200 --> 01:20:19,860
Will the future parking lot connect to the Sanoco parking lot?

906
01:20:20,660 --> 01:20:21,260
Pardon me?

907
01:20:21,500 --> 01:20:24,800
Will the future parking lot connect to the Sanoco parking lot?

908
01:20:25,320 --> 01:20:26,560
No, not right now.

909
01:20:29,460 --> 01:20:34,120
We have approached them and we haven't had a response back.

910
01:20:34,720 --> 01:20:38,980
It is designed that they can make the connection in the future, but we're not going to provide

911
01:20:38,980 --> 01:20:41,500
a connection for them at this point.

912
01:20:42,880 --> 01:20:49,240
And with that, we would appreciate approval of the plenary site plan and maybe modify the

913
01:20:49,240 --> 01:20:54,240
condition of the sidewalk because we would like to construct, we agree with constructing

914
01:20:54,240 --> 01:20:56,800
in the sidewalk around the Goodwill area

915
01:20:56,800 --> 01:20:59,160
but going into the future site

916
01:20:59,160 --> 01:21:00,660
and like to have it affirm it

917
01:21:00,660 --> 01:21:03,180
and have that constructed during the actual site plan.

918
01:21:03,380 --> 01:21:03,980
Good construction

919
01:21:04,480 --> 01:21:07,020
where the construction for the facility later.

920
01:21:08,400 --> 01:21:09,760
I'll say the argument I make with that

921
01:21:09,760 --> 01:21:11,480
is if you're doing the soil disturbance now,

922
01:21:11,480 --> 01:21:14,280
why not just continue and make the sidewalks

923
01:21:14,280 --> 01:21:15,120
in that soil disturbance?

924
01:21:18,310 --> 01:21:19,910
You know, they're gonna be hand,

925
01:21:20,010 --> 01:21:21,950
they're gonna be handicap accessible.

926
01:21:22,990 --> 01:21:24,490
I, you know, it's just that

927
01:21:24,490 --> 01:21:29,970
But why do you want to encourage somebody to go back to the middle of nowhere?

928
01:21:32,270 --> 01:21:34,230
Typically it's been frowned upon.

929
01:21:34,650 --> 01:21:42,710
I know in the old days it used to just do little bits and pieces, but the more and more

930
01:21:42,710 --> 01:21:50,770
the thinking is, till you get a comprehensive plan, don't put people in areas where all of

931
01:21:50,770 --> 01:21:57,690
They have a sidewalk and then they have to go into the street or this point into the woods they go into the woods

932
01:21:57,690 --> 01:22:00,130
I mean, why do we want to encourage somebody?

933
01:22:01,050 --> 01:22:05,390
Well, we are encouraging them to go into the woods because that's the access point to the trolley trail right there.

934
01:22:06,610 --> 01:22:12,770
I mean to be honest, I mean I understand what the applicant is saying but again this site plan is showing the road to be

935
01:22:12,770 --> 01:22:19,470
constructed all the way in to the point where they're showing it to end so and again

936
01:22:19,470 --> 01:22:28,450
And then what if what if what if it does get sold with a property gets sold and then you know there's no guarantee that that future sidewalk work will occur.

937
01:22:29,030 --> 01:22:40,190
So I think it's very important that we ensure that if we're building that road section and the site plan is showing us building that road section that sidewalks are constructed at the same time that road is constructed.

938
01:22:41,750 --> 01:22:48,310
But I remind you, this is not a public road, this is a private road, and you also have

939
01:22:48,310 --> 01:22:56,430
site plan approval in order to, is your hammer in order to build the, I mean we'll be glad

940
01:22:56,430 --> 01:23:02,570
to put the, the pressure in for the handicap ramps, but I need some to the planning commission,

941
01:23:02,570 --> 01:23:08,490
you know typically I would rather wait till we

942
01:23:11,210 --> 01:23:13,930
have a user and know where the site

943
01:23:13,930 --> 01:23:18,070
walks supposed to go but what's the benefit of it being a private road?

944
01:23:20,560 --> 01:23:21,340
Well we

945
01:23:21,340 --> 01:23:25,620
can't make it a public because if we do it right away goodwill becomes an

946
01:23:25,620 --> 01:23:32,860
on-conforming structure to the setbacks where the property line is so we do have

947
01:23:32,860 --> 01:23:38,700
issue. And I don't think we really want to all of a sudden make a brand new building and not

948
01:23:38,700 --> 01:23:45,200
to conform the structure right off the bat. So you pinched between goodwill and the wetlands.

949
01:23:45,840 --> 01:23:51,920
Yeah, I don't know whether it sound really wants to maintain a road. I don't know whether the

950
01:23:51,920 --> 01:23:56,580
public works department really wants to maintain a 35 foot road to one user in the back.

951
01:23:56,580 --> 01:23:56,760
back.

952
01:23:59,180 --> 01:24:05,100
How wide is Thermont Boulevard? Do we know? I don't know off the top of my head.

953
01:24:05,100 --> 01:24:10,580
I have to measure it. It is a 50 foot right of way, at least. It might be even 60 foot

954
01:24:10,580 --> 01:24:10,820
there.

955
01:24:13,480 --> 01:24:18,260
Right now people are parking on that road to get to good well. So if you have tracked

956
01:24:18,260 --> 01:24:21,000
trailers, Thermont Boulevard 40 feet wide.

957
01:24:30,020 --> 01:24:33,240
My issue is, you know, we do a great job of bringing

958
01:24:33,240 --> 01:24:38,720
the tractor trailers into town but then leaving that intersection it's it's not so great so and there's

959
01:24:38,720 --> 01:24:44,340
really no way to improve that there's nowhere for that other lane to go other than

960
01:24:45,780 --> 01:24:54,400
taking parking away from McDonald's or Goodwill or KFC which I don't think we want to do

961
01:24:54,880 --> 01:25:00,980
do you know you know you guys that I'm talking about that's why I asked about the tractor trailer

962
01:25:00,980 --> 01:25:07,780
there. People are parking on Thermal of Art. I don't know why. Let me discuss that later.

963
01:25:10,800 --> 01:25:16,280
That's a big topic. I mean, we need to discuss it now because it's part of it's going to impact

964
01:25:16,280 --> 01:25:21,280
this project. If you've tracked a trailer's trying to turn out and you've got cars parked there,

965
01:25:21,680 --> 01:25:30,180
that's a competing interest. It's not safe. And then who will enforce people parking and

966
01:25:30,180 --> 01:25:34,640
constructing like what if people park they want to they want to go to trolley trail and they park

967
01:25:34,640 --> 01:25:40,820
in your road are you going to have no towing like you know no parking no towing if that happens

968
01:25:41,880 --> 01:25:47,580
probably that's a question for the applicant but I would if it becomes a problem I would think

969
01:25:48,360 --> 01:25:56,860
the no parking signs as mentioned the staff report would be an appropriate solution for that and

970
01:26:00,640 --> 01:26:00,860
can

971
01:26:00,860 --> 01:26:02,880
Can I ask a silly question?

972
01:26:03,020 --> 01:26:12,260
I think we kind of talked about during the concept, but why the road here and not off

973
01:26:12,260 --> 01:26:14,880
of the main road, where you already have the tractor trailer traffic?

974
01:26:19,040 --> 01:26:20,720
We don't have access.

975
01:26:21,680 --> 01:26:22,520
Here comes this ricklee.

976
01:26:22,960 --> 01:26:23,760
He has something to say.

977
01:26:26,420 --> 01:26:29,320
Good evening, Craig McLean from Mountain Gate.

978
01:26:30,460 --> 01:26:31,800
So, you got a couple of questions.

979
01:26:31,800 --> 01:26:38,200
one is the town really doesn't want truck traffic on Frederick Road and their goal

980
01:26:38,200 --> 01:26:42,280
is to get the truck traffic to come out this entrance. The owner of the

981
01:26:42,280 --> 01:26:47,300
snooker is got his property for sale that could be a possibility but he's not

982
01:26:47,300 --> 01:26:52,060
going to spend a month but you're worried about the parking not that I want to go

983
01:26:52,060 --> 01:26:56,280
all the way back but I want to turn goodwill around the other way and have the

984
01:26:56,280 --> 01:26:59,880
parking and then you wouldn't have that parking along the street because the

985
01:26:59,880 --> 01:27:04,020
in front of the store had been facing north.

986
01:27:04,880 --> 01:27:07,080
But now it's facing that way, so you park along the street

987
01:27:07,080 --> 01:27:09,620
and use that sidewalk that you guys want.

988
01:27:10,100 --> 01:27:12,260
You want a sidewalk, so hey, there's a sidewalk there.

989
01:27:12,280 --> 01:27:13,720
It looks like you're supposed to park from there.

990
01:27:14,720 --> 01:27:16,280
But really, you're right.

991
01:27:16,460 --> 01:27:18,000
There's another entrance off of Frederick Road.

992
01:27:18,340 --> 01:27:21,460
The idea of this is to get traffic off of Frederick Road

993
01:27:21,460 --> 01:27:25,620
and get them to use this and to kind of slow down

994
01:27:25,620 --> 01:27:26,680
the traffic on Frederick Road.

995
01:27:26,800 --> 01:27:28,440
That's the idea of the boulevard.

996
01:27:28,440 --> 01:27:33,740
that's the idea, everything trying to get less traffic on the Frederick Road, which for

997
01:27:33,740 --> 01:27:38,720
me is a double-edged sword because I've got a lot of commercial businesses up that way.

998
01:27:38,860 --> 01:27:43,020
So, I really don't want traffic off of Frederick Road, but I can see why the tab would want

999
01:27:43,020 --> 01:27:46,780
traffic off of Frederick Road. So, that's the idea.

1000
01:27:48,960 --> 01:27:49,400
Okay.

1001
01:27:51,670 --> 01:27:53,290
You've been in your questions from Mr. McLean.

1002
01:27:54,330 --> 01:27:54,990
And

1003
01:27:58,540 --> 01:28:03,020
you can't share future use, like what, what were that?

1004
01:28:03,580 --> 01:28:10,000
Well, the original user kind of went dark and I wasn't, I signed a confidential

1005
01:28:10,000 --> 01:28:14,180
agreement with them and they, they, so I can't repeat that.

1006
01:28:15,550 --> 01:28:23,040
We have another user looking at it for doing, you know, like a family center, you know,

1007
01:28:23,040 --> 01:28:27,940
get a car track maybe or something and we have another user that's probably just

1008
01:28:27,940 --> 01:28:34,640
using for parking so it's nothing nothing extreme but again it's like Bill

1009
01:28:34,640 --> 01:28:40,620
says that'll come to planning and zoning and you guys will be able to you know

1010
01:28:40,620 --> 01:28:46,220
have your comments there and say yeah or an air but you'd like to see with the

1011
01:28:46,220 --> 01:28:50,260
future sidewalk I understand what Kelly's saying and understand it needs to be on

1012
01:28:50,260 --> 01:28:56,280
the plan but you know you could have a user back there in six months you could have a user back

1013
01:28:56,280 --> 01:29:01,040
there in six years six years that sidewalk is not going to be any it's going to be all busted up

1014
01:29:01,040 --> 01:29:07,420
and you're really going to not serve the purpose so you know at the end of the day you know we're

1015
01:29:07,420 --> 01:29:13,700
trying to do something nice and bills right it's just a sidewalk going to nowhere so really we're

1016
01:29:13,700 --> 01:29:17,440
We're only going to black top here, and then we're going to barricade this off.

1017
01:29:19,220 --> 01:29:22,200
So we're barricading the road off, so you can't go back there.

1018
01:29:22,620 --> 01:29:24,580
You can't really barricade a sidewalk off.

1019
01:29:25,320 --> 01:29:28,440
But, you know, I understand Kelly's concern.

1020
01:29:31,370 --> 01:29:40,710
Is that something that could be incorporated in an agreement that at the time of development for the second phase of that, that the sidewalk would be expanded?

1021
01:29:42,150 --> 01:29:45,430
unless you're going to record something like that in land records I don't

1022
01:29:45,430 --> 01:29:49,230
recommend it because finding these things again in the future is fraught with

1023
01:29:49,230 --> 01:29:49,570
peril.

1024
01:29:52,420 --> 01:29:55,760
But again when the site when the site playing comes you can make that a

1025
01:29:55,760 --> 01:29:59,820
condition but they can't they can't develop that without finishing

1026
01:30:01,100 --> 01:30:10,180
You guys have all the teeth. But you're selling that so you might not be the same applicant for one that comes up, right? That's true.

1027
01:30:12,260 --> 01:30:19,880
I think that's that's the issue. If we know you were sticking around, it doesn't seem that way.

1028
01:30:21,320 --> 01:30:27,920
I just think about as long as I can, and Madam Chair, remember, whoever owns the property

1029
01:30:27,920 --> 01:30:29,060
doesn't make any difference.

1030
01:30:29,140 --> 01:30:34,620
They have to come before you for site plan, no matter what, you are the final authority.

1031
01:30:35,620 --> 01:30:44,600
We can build a sidewalk to know where, you know, that's fine, but whoever owns that property

1032
01:30:44,980 --> 01:30:48,680
for wherever use is going back there has to come before you for site plan.

1033
01:30:48,680 --> 01:30:55,860
And at that time, you know, pull the plan out, hey, it shows this future, I don't even

1034
01:30:55,860 --> 01:31:01,680
call it base two if you don't like the word future, you know, to be constructed with the

1035
01:31:01,680 --> 01:31:04,760
use on the remainder of the property.

1036
01:31:05,080 --> 01:31:10,280
Maybe that's the compromise, you know, to be specific.

1037
01:31:10,280 --> 01:31:16,200
That is not beyond the future of the site plan, but it has to be constructed with the site

1038
01:31:16,200 --> 01:31:20,280
to play on use, you know, or whoever the user is.

1039
01:31:20,400 --> 01:31:21,840
And I'll be glad to put that on the plane.

1040
01:31:21,980 --> 01:31:25,220
If that makes it more, more powderable.

1041
01:31:25,860 --> 01:31:27,800
So you're going to barricade this part

1042
01:31:27,800 --> 01:31:30,900
until the development for whomever occurs,

1043
01:31:31,360 --> 01:31:35,000
so that there's no other loophole around

1044
01:31:35,000 --> 01:31:37,640
from the other adjacent property to get back in there

1045
01:31:37,640 --> 01:31:38,280
at this time.

1046
01:31:38,800 --> 01:31:40,120
No, it's blocked off as well.

1047
01:31:40,380 --> 01:31:40,580
OK.

1048
01:31:41,640 --> 01:31:45,480
I don't hang out back there, so it wasn't quite sure.

1049
01:31:50,050 --> 01:31:52,390
How do you guys, what do you guys feel about the sidewalk?

1050
01:31:53,850 --> 01:31:55,710
Those signs are good on me.

1051
01:31:56,070 --> 01:31:58,690
I mean this over here carries this point.

1052
01:31:59,850 --> 01:32:04,110
So we're willing to put in ADA curbing as they lay it up.

1053
01:32:05,430 --> 01:32:06,750
Sidewalks, square counts.

1054
01:32:07,250 --> 01:32:08,650
The curbings are just stays.

1055
01:32:08,910 --> 01:32:09,730
You're not, what's happening?

1056
01:32:10,230 --> 01:32:11,270
The roadway in the curbing.

1057
01:32:11,870 --> 01:32:14,510
It actually has an ADA, you know, like the space.

1058
01:32:14,990 --> 01:32:17,910
Here and, I assume that's at both points of contact.

1059
01:32:17,910 --> 01:32:23,750
Well, those are already there, but this is the good one.

1060
01:32:23,810 --> 01:32:24,410
I understand.

1061
01:32:25,330 --> 01:32:25,790
Yeah.

1062
01:32:26,550 --> 01:32:27,830
This is a giant there.

1063
01:32:28,750 --> 01:32:30,030
We've put the depressed curves.

1064
01:32:30,250 --> 01:32:30,750
I see over here.

1065
01:32:31,270 --> 01:32:31,980
I'm never mind.

1066
01:32:32,690 --> 01:32:33,550
I'm a good little guy.

1067
01:32:34,270 --> 01:32:36,010
That is already over there.

1068
01:32:36,190 --> 01:32:36,330
Yeah.

1069
01:32:36,470 --> 01:32:37,950
That's already existing.

1070
01:32:38,270 --> 01:32:39,170
So they'll be turning into things.

1071
01:32:39,530 --> 01:32:40,310
Oh, okay.

1072
01:32:40,510 --> 01:32:42,730
So this is what I'm talking about.

1073
01:32:42,730 --> 01:32:43,910
No, this is here.

1074
01:32:44,250 --> 01:32:44,710
Man enough.

1075
01:32:45,470 --> 01:32:46,410
This is something.

1076
01:32:46,410 --> 01:32:52,490
That's a question. Kelly, can you put the purple blob slide up?

1077
01:32:54,370 --> 01:32:57,270
It's a great one. There you go.

1078
01:32:59,210 --> 01:33:00,110
There's a red blob.

1079
01:33:01,050 --> 01:33:02,110
See, it goes right up.

1080
01:33:02,950 --> 01:33:03,410
That's right.

1081
01:33:05,330 --> 01:33:05,770
Greg,

1082
01:33:12,880 --> 01:33:14,700
what do you think about the sidewalk?

1083
01:33:15,220 --> 01:33:15,380
The

1084
01:33:19,310 --> 01:33:23,170
reason for it is right. We can force the new tenant when they come in to put something in place.

1085
01:33:23,170 --> 01:33:26,350
if it's going to be a bunch of years, that sidewalks is going to get beat.

1086
01:33:29,190 --> 01:33:35,970
What is legal's recommendation to articulate that for the recreation of that easement

1087
01:33:35,970 --> 01:33:39,530
or of the property to ensure that that does happen?

1088
01:33:40,070 --> 01:33:44,890
Well, you would have to have future sidewalk required for subsequent development on the

1089
01:33:44,890 --> 01:33:45,170
flat.

1090
01:33:48,670 --> 01:33:52,450
So we can add that as a condition of approval for this. Correct. Correct.

1091
01:34:04,710 --> 01:34:05,790
24 can be updated.

1092
01:34:08,510 --> 01:34:08,990
The

1093
01:34:17,630 --> 01:34:21,250
applicant, you don't have any, you don't foresee any issues with

1094
01:34:21,250 --> 01:34:27,090
the tractor trailers turning out and having a clear path onto the Thermal of Art. When

1095
01:34:27,090 --> 01:34:33,210
you have traffic coming out of Weiss as well, you don't, and you've got people coming in to

1096
01:34:33,210 --> 01:34:38,030
the good will there. So you've got three different access points right there and then you also have

1097
01:34:38,030 --> 01:34:44,790
the pedestrian crossing from the trail. It is I'll be honest with you it is tight going out

1098
01:34:44,790 --> 01:34:54,510
making the right hand turn and the reason it's tight is the radius is only 25 foot and we can't

1099
01:34:54,510 --> 01:35:01,850
enlarge that because the town has a storm drain structure right at the fillet of the curb return.

1100
01:35:05,270 --> 01:35:11,190
So that's why we have the 35 foot roadway and the center line that

1101
01:35:11,190 --> 01:35:14,870
tractor trailer is going to be right on that center line in order to make that

1102
01:35:14,870 --> 01:35:15,610
turn.

1103
01:35:17,830 --> 01:35:22,930
But he's able to do it. Stay on the right and stay on the center line of

1104
01:35:22,930 --> 01:35:24,350
Thermon Boulevard.

1105
01:35:26,590 --> 01:35:30,230
He's going to go straight out and make one of those hard hard

1106
01:35:30,230 --> 01:35:34,530
but it's doable. It's not the best situation.

1107
01:35:34,770 --> 01:35:38,010
I mean, the remountable of our roll, the curb radius

1108
01:35:38,010 --> 01:35:40,190
should have been at least 30, 35 feet

1109
01:35:41,090 --> 01:35:43,770
for a road of that classification.

1110
01:35:48,110 --> 01:35:50,170
Because this is a private road,

1111
01:35:50,510 --> 01:35:51,950
you can't put a stop sign

1112
01:35:52,530 --> 01:35:54,350
when you're coming off this private road

1113
01:35:54,350 --> 01:35:56,370
and making a right on the the remountable of our,

1114
01:35:56,610 --> 01:35:57,250
is that correct?

1115
01:35:58,270 --> 01:36:00,570
You can make a condition of your approval.

1116
01:36:00,930 --> 01:36:01,210
Absolutely.

1117
01:36:01,210 --> 01:36:05,250
I know legally you can put a stop sign where it's a private access room.

1118
01:36:05,390 --> 01:36:06,050
Yeah, absolutely.

1119
01:36:06,670 --> 01:36:06,770
Yeah.

1120
01:36:07,270 --> 01:36:08,890
There's a public safety issue for sure.

1121
01:36:08,890 --> 01:36:09,090
Okay.

1122
01:36:09,170 --> 01:36:09,450
Yeah.

1123
01:36:09,550 --> 01:36:11,010
We have a stop sign.

1124
01:36:11,190 --> 01:36:12,630
And they do have it on the other side.

1125
01:36:12,870 --> 01:36:14,330
It's kind of hard to see on the little ones here.

1126
01:36:14,350 --> 01:36:14,490
Yeah.

1127
01:36:14,930 --> 01:36:15,410
It's on there.

1128
01:36:15,670 --> 01:36:15,850
Okay.

1129
01:36:20,420 --> 01:36:26,740
And then the pedestrian crossing from the trolley trail coming out with the tractor trailer

1130
01:36:26,740 --> 01:36:29,420
or in just vehicular access,

1131
01:36:30,060 --> 01:36:34,280
how are we directing them through this intersection?

1132
01:36:34,900 --> 01:36:36,560
Good, we're not a truck stop.

1133
01:36:37,840 --> 01:36:40,000
We're gonna have...

1134
01:36:40,000 --> 01:36:41,740
If you're a family fund center,

1135
01:36:42,020 --> 01:36:44,520
that could, that could attract a lot of traffic

1136
01:36:44,520 --> 01:36:45,080
on that intersection.

1137
01:36:45,140 --> 01:36:46,060
But not tractor trailers.

1138
01:36:47,020 --> 01:36:49,120
Yeah, you could, you could ask the applicant

1139
01:36:49,120 --> 01:36:52,660
to put a crosswalk across that intersection.

1140
01:36:52,660 --> 01:36:59,100
If you would like to have them do that, you know, the trail does come up and end there

1141
01:36:59,100 --> 01:37:04,260
at the Roadstub and lead you to the existing sidewalk that is currently there.

1142
01:37:05,340 --> 01:37:09,020
So, I mean, you could potentially ask the applicant to put a crosswalk across there to

1143
01:37:09,780 --> 01:37:10,500
protect pedestrians.

1144
01:37:18,350 --> 01:37:19,690
Sorry, I haven't asked a liaison.

1145
01:37:20,130 --> 01:37:27,130
Do you have the temporary liaison, do you have anything, any questions at this time for

1146
01:37:27,130 --> 01:37:28,830
of the applicant or staff or us?

1147
01:37:29,690 --> 01:37:30,430
Not really.

1148
01:37:30,710 --> 01:37:37,950
My only thought was, and I believe it was pretty much answered why this wasn't accessed

1149
01:37:39,030 --> 01:37:43,350
on the area where the trucks go in and out of the Sonoco property.

1150
01:37:44,530 --> 01:37:49,030
That's tractor trailers all the time in and out of there, and I don't understand why we

1151
01:37:49,030 --> 01:37:54,610
had to put an additional roadway in, but it makes a little more sense, Mr. McLeif explained

1152
01:37:54,610 --> 01:37:59,970
a little better and, you know, to try to keep track traffic all front will further

1153
01:37:59,970 --> 01:38:05,410
grow, I guess, is the answer. But I still think that would have been a better fit for

1154
01:38:05,410 --> 01:38:09,470
that property than what the plan is. Just my opinion.

1155
01:38:10,630 --> 01:38:16,810
But we don't have access to that property. We don't have legal access through there.

1156
01:38:20,300 --> 01:38:24,700
And that wasn't at your fault. You did try to work it out with that property owner,

1157
01:38:24,800 --> 01:38:25,120
correct?

1158
01:38:25,120 --> 01:38:54,820
Well, I let Mr. McCleef speak about that so that's not true. I have legal access. I can get legal access, but again, we're trying to get traffic off of Frederick Road and on the Thermal Boulevard to the light because all the traffic would come out there. There's no light and then they'd have to come out the intersection of cars, trucks, whatever you come down here, you come on the Thermal Boulevard and you come out to the light.

1159
01:38:55,120 --> 01:38:59,120
So the whole idea was to get traffic off of the program.

1160
01:39:03,610 --> 01:39:04,910
Yeah, no, I understand what you're saying.

1161
01:39:05,250 --> 01:39:07,890
All right.

1162
01:39:12,840 --> 01:39:13,920
Gentlemen, what's your pleasure?

1163
01:39:16,320 --> 01:39:18,180
If you have any other questions for the applicant.

1164
01:39:19,900 --> 01:39:20,300
Staff.

1165
01:39:29,710 --> 01:39:29,950
All right.

1166
01:39:30,110 --> 01:39:32,030
If there's no additional comments or questions,

1167
01:39:32,030 --> 01:39:33,130
I'll open the floor.

1168
01:39:34,310 --> 01:39:36,470
Do we want to make a motion? Do we have a motion?

1169
01:39:37,450 --> 01:39:38,250
Public comment?

1170
01:39:38,510 --> 01:39:38,930
Oh, sorry.

1171
01:39:38,990 --> 01:39:40,770
Did you get the sign-on sheet for that?

1172
01:39:40,770 --> 01:39:41,510
I did not.

1173
01:39:41,730 --> 01:39:41,810
Yeah.

1174
01:39:42,250 --> 01:39:42,310
Yep.

1175
01:39:42,750 --> 01:39:42,830
Oh.

1176
01:39:43,730 --> 01:39:45,630
Early A's on is going to bring it to you.

1177
01:39:53,560 --> 01:39:54,800
They're not here for that.

1178
01:39:55,420 --> 01:39:55,900
Okay.

1179
01:39:56,720 --> 01:39:57,420
Hold it.

1180
01:40:07,780 --> 01:40:08,740
Thank you.

1181
01:40:13,240 --> 01:40:18,120
I should really just ask, is there anyone here on the sign-in sheet that's here to speak about

1182
01:40:18,120 --> 01:40:19,160
this particular project?

1183
01:40:21,930 --> 01:40:26,150
Is there anybody that would like to give comment on this project going

1184
01:40:29,250 --> 01:40:32,310
once, twice?

1185
01:40:33,610 --> 01:40:40,170
Okay, seeing that there is no public comment, I will open the floor to accept a motion.

1186
01:40:44,430 --> 01:40:47,210
Did we agree on the sidewalk before we make that motion?

1187
01:40:50,670 --> 01:40:51,850
It's going to change the wording.

1188
01:40:52,150 --> 01:40:53,670
Right, I think so.

1189
01:40:53,910 --> 01:40:55,010
As long as it can be reported.

1190
01:40:56,390 --> 01:40:57,130
Recorded from that.

1191
01:40:57,570 --> 01:40:59,090
It has to be part of the future site plan.

1192
01:40:59,730 --> 01:41:03,770
Right, and is there specific language other than just on the plat?

1193
01:41:03,770 --> 01:41:04,650
on the plaque.

1194
01:41:06,910 --> 01:41:11,410
There's nowhere else to put it at the stage of the game.

1195
01:41:12,270 --> 01:41:14,070
But any specific wording that should be on there?

1196
01:41:14,650 --> 01:41:20,130
Just a future sidewalk connection required, combined with laws and effects at the time.

1197
01:41:20,350 --> 01:41:26,230
Basically, it's what it's going to say. I mean, keeping in mind, you know,

1198
01:41:26,310 --> 01:41:30,910
the requirements of your master plan as well, which actually says that will

1199
01:41:30,910 --> 01:41:36,050
have sidewalks everywhere you can put them and this is your opportunity to

1200
01:41:36,050 --> 01:41:42,030
require it because what we don't want to have happen is for somebody else to

1201
01:41:42,030 --> 01:41:46,710
buy parcel number two and say well we're going to come in off of a public

1202
01:41:46,710 --> 01:41:51,700
street and that's not our problem keep that in mind.

1203
01:41:59,760 --> 01:42:01,180
And did you decide whether you

1204
01:42:01,180 --> 01:42:07,300
wanted a crosswalk across the access room from the trolley trail the other side? I

1205
01:42:07,300 --> 01:42:08,740
we should add that requirement.

1206
01:42:16,880 --> 01:42:19,660
So there'll be nine conditions of approval.

1207
01:42:20,720 --> 01:42:24,280
Good you're going to modify number four. Yes. Okay.

1208
01:42:27,790 --> 01:42:28,450
Bless you.

1209
01:42:35,800 --> 01:42:37,940
Oh, you want motion? Okay. Yeah. Okay.

1210
01:42:39,580 --> 01:42:44,120
It's been a while since I did this. I forget what I was supposed to say. Make a motion to

1211
01:42:45,040 --> 01:42:48,140
recommend conditional approval of the

1212
01:42:53,480 --> 01:42:56,880
Mountain Gate Business Park Access Road

1213
01:42:59,040 --> 01:43:05,200
CP1-PP-205-01 as listed.

1214
01:43:05,500 --> 01:43:06,820
Do I need to read through all the items?

1215
01:43:07,280 --> 01:43:07,400
Yes.

1216
01:43:07,500 --> 01:43:07,860
Yes, you do.

1217
01:43:08,620 --> 01:43:09,060
Okay.

1218
01:43:10,520 --> 01:43:11,320
As follows.

1219
01:43:12,000 --> 01:43:13,840
One, Maryland Department of Environment,

1220
01:43:13,980 --> 01:43:14,740
Permit Approval.

1221
01:43:14,740 --> 01:43:18,540
two, Frederick County Stormwater Management Plan approval,

1222
01:43:19,020 --> 01:43:23,420
three, Frederick County Erosion and Sediment Control Plan approval,

1223
01:43:24,460 --> 01:43:29,720
four, all sidewalks should be shown in the same gray gradient

1224
01:43:30,480 --> 01:43:33,620
and the words, future sidewalk, I'm

1225
01:43:36,120 --> 01:43:36,380
already.

1226
01:43:39,150 --> 01:43:40,470
You had a word for it, ma'am.

1227
01:43:40,870 --> 01:43:42,910
Future sidewalk required, thank you.

1228
01:43:42,970 --> 01:43:45,550
Yeah, I think that the other thing,

1229
01:43:45,550 --> 01:43:45,950
Yeah,

1230
01:43:48,610 --> 01:43:54,730
I'm just concerned about the whole coming in from another direction on the second

1231
01:43:54,730 --> 01:43:56,530
parcel to be developed in the future.

1232
01:43:57,750 --> 01:44:02,370
And imposing a requirement on a road that they don't need.

1233
01:44:04,330 --> 01:44:05,570
That concerns me.

1234
01:44:05,990 --> 01:44:08,610
Can we overrule our own recommendation from this?

1235
01:44:09,390 --> 01:44:10,190
You can start over.

1236
01:44:10,650 --> 01:44:10,790
Right.

1237
01:44:11,050 --> 01:44:11,310
That's right.

1238
01:44:11,330 --> 01:44:12,530
We just started over at that point.

1239
01:44:12,670 --> 01:44:14,890
That way it's on there and we can erase it later if we need to.

1240
01:44:16,470 --> 01:44:18,370
No, I think you're suggesting doing it now?

1241
01:44:18,370 --> 01:44:22,830
Yeah, I'm just that the issue the the concern that I have is

1242
01:44:24,370 --> 01:44:30,530
If you want the sidewalk in the future, but it's not a this is a private road

1243
01:44:31,170 --> 01:44:32,590
owned by two other

1244
01:44:33,170 --> 01:44:34,150
property owners

1245
01:44:35,090 --> 01:44:40,030
How are you going to impose that requirement on somebody new to the table?

1246
01:44:42,090 --> 01:44:45,470
That doesn't have a right of access to that public road

1247
01:44:46,030 --> 01:44:47,390
That is my concern

1248
01:44:50,550 --> 01:44:56,670
But this will be so worth a plus because it's this word is being built to access both of those

1249
01:44:56,670 --> 01:44:57,190
sides.

1250
01:44:57,610 --> 01:44:57,670
Right.

1251
01:44:57,870 --> 01:44:59,870
I was going to say is it being re-plated to this

1252
01:45:07,320 --> 01:45:29,980
All of it. Correct. Correct. So the deed is not there to do a subdivision plat at this point. It is just for the access road construction. When they get to the development of that site, then yes, we would recommend that subdivision be occurred. Subdivision plat would occur. Simul

1253
01:45:29,980 --> 01:45:34,120
simultaneously with the site plan for the development of that site.

1254
01:45:34,420 --> 01:45:43,500
Well, then maybe that's the thing to do to say that it's a requirement of subdivision approval on part two.

1255
01:45:44,400 --> 01:45:49,780
Yeah, I think that we can hope we have legal grounds with that because I mean, currently, if there's a transfer of ownership,

1256
01:45:50,420 --> 01:45:53,480
who would maintain who would end up with this road is the question.

1257
01:45:53,480 --> 01:45:58,860
So, because the which is another reason we need the easement right because you don't want to wind up with

1258
01:46:01,140 --> 01:46:03,780
a recorded flat and no easement document.

1259
01:46:07,370 --> 01:46:14,610
So you said it should say a future sidewalk required as part of some division approval period or you had some

1260
01:46:14,610 --> 01:46:22,070
additional language earlier complying with future laws of effect. I would add that to. Okay, but it's quite by definition it will have to.

1261
01:46:22,070 --> 01:46:29,590
But it doesn't hurt to put it in but you know when the whatever somebody develops property

1262
01:46:29,590 --> 01:46:36,990
you have an obligation to comply with hitting upon the face you know current requirements.

1263
01:46:37,990 --> 01:46:44,430
So an ADA sidewalk things change over time as we all know and they get bigger typically

1264
01:46:44,430 --> 01:46:51,170
they don't get smaller so I think that that doesn't hurt to add.

1265
01:46:51,170 --> 01:47:00,590
okay but one one second for point of clarity so that particular item doesn't say

1266
01:47:00,590 --> 01:47:03,670
anything about an easement though it just talks about the sidewalks no that's

1267
01:47:03,670 --> 01:47:06,790
one of your other conditions okay yeah just point of order just making sure there

1268
01:47:06,790 --> 01:47:14,170
were I think we have got that one okay proceed do I start all the way at the beginning

1269
01:47:14,170 --> 01:47:16,110
I think I picked up a number four.

1270
01:47:16,230 --> 01:47:16,270
Yes.

1271
01:47:16,270 --> 01:47:17,770
Well, let's start over.

1272
01:47:18,730 --> 01:47:19,750
It's up to you.

1273
01:47:20,210 --> 01:47:22,390
Does the motion have to die before we restart it?

1274
01:47:23,810 --> 01:47:26,490
Well, we technically took discussion out of order.

1275
01:47:26,710 --> 01:47:29,310
Typically, the motion is made and then there's discussion.

1276
01:47:29,730 --> 01:47:31,330
And then the motion can die.

1277
01:47:31,470 --> 01:47:33,470
So we didn't quite exactly do this,

1278
01:47:34,090 --> 01:47:35,530
according to Robert's rules.

1279
01:47:36,930 --> 01:47:38,650
Okay, start over.

1280
01:47:41,910 --> 01:47:53,410
Okay, make a motion for conditional approval of the preliminary site plan for C1-PP-2025-01.

1281
01:47:54,310 --> 01:47:59,150
Mountain Gate Business Park, Thermal Business Park Access Road, situated east of Goodwill.

1282
01:48:01,140 --> 01:48:09,660
The items are one, Maryland Department of Environmental Permit Approval, two, Frederick County Stormwater

1283
01:48:09,660 --> 01:48:15,280
management plan approval, three, Frederick County erosion and sediment control plan approval,

1284
01:48:15,700 --> 01:48:24,420
four, all sidewalks should be shown on the same gray gradient and the words futures sidewalk

1285
01:48:24,420 --> 01:48:30,300
required as part of subdivision approval, complying with future laws in effect.

1286
01:48:32,180 --> 01:48:37,500
Okay, five, temporary construction easement must be obtained from the town of Thurmont,

1287
01:48:37,500 --> 01:48:51,880
6, access management agreement established between Goodwill Property and the applicant's property which shall be reviewed by the town attorney to ensure that each property owner is responsible for their fair share of road maintenance.

1288
01:48:52,640 --> 01:49:01,880
7, a separate plan sheet or in addition to an existing plan sheet to show the tractor trailers can easily maneuver the access road.

1289
01:49:01,880 --> 01:49:11,660
8, minor plan edits, a, add north arrow to the site plan, b, the seal and signature

1290
01:49:11,660 --> 01:49:17,240
of a registered Maryland land surveyor, and or the seal and signature of licensed engineer

1291
01:49:17,240 --> 01:49:23,960
or landscape architect must be added to the site plan, only on sheets 7 and 8, item

1292
01:49:23,960 --> 01:49:31,080
c, appropriate signature blocks should be provided on all sheets of the site plan, 4 of the

1293
01:49:31,080 --> 01:49:34,080
Administrative sign for the town, missing on sheet two.

1294
01:49:34,620 --> 01:49:41,940
And the new item nine, add crosswalk from trolley trail across access road.

1295
01:49:43,800 --> 01:49:57,970
Okay, I have a motion on the floor for conditional approval for preliminary site plan C1-PP-2025-01-mountain gate business park with nine conditions.

1296
01:49:58,450 --> 01:49:59,210
Do I have a second?

1297
01:49:59,670 --> 01:50:00,870
I'll second the motion.

1298
01:50:00,870 --> 01:50:02,390
Any discussion?

1299
01:50:04,970 --> 01:50:06,850
All those in favor? Please raise your right hand.

1300
01:50:08,990 --> 01:50:10,270
Thank you. Motion carries.

1301
01:50:13,350 --> 01:50:13,670
Thank you.

1302
01:50:17,610 --> 01:50:30,130
All right. Next item on the agenda is the public hearing. Annication petition AX-CP-2024-01,

1303
01:50:30,130 --> 01:50:34,270
one, Simmer's property, 304 apples church road.

1304
01:50:35,190 --> 01:50:38,510
As Kelly stated earlier, we will be starting over.

1305
01:50:39,050 --> 01:50:42,290
Kelly will be reading us for a lovely note yet again.

1306
01:50:42,910 --> 01:50:43,090
Kelly?

1307
01:50:43,390 --> 01:50:43,830
Let's

1308
01:50:50,520 --> 01:50:51,820
see the right slides here.

1309
01:50:56,410 --> 01:50:56,790
Bless you.

1310
01:50:57,870 --> 01:51:00,050
Okay, I'm just gonna read the exact same thing.

1311
01:51:00,170 --> 01:51:02,270
I read previously for the purpose

1312
01:51:02,270 --> 01:51:03,530
of our public hearings tonight.

1313
01:51:04,310 --> 01:51:06,510
So the petition for annexation, application,

1314
01:51:06,910 --> 01:51:08,850
it has but it was submitted completely

1315
01:51:08,850 --> 01:51:13,530
and all the feeds were paid. The application was provided to the Board of Commissioners

1316
01:51:13,530 --> 01:51:19,710
at their December or 2024 meeting at which time they delegated it to you the Planning and

1317
01:51:19,710 --> 01:51:24,690
Zoning Commission for the Code. The applicant is here tonight, adjoining properties have been

1318
01:51:24,690 --> 01:51:31,330
notified via certified mail, advertised in the Frederick News Post and the property was posted.

1319
01:51:31,330 --> 01:51:32,070
As

1320
01:51:34,760 --> 01:51:42,260
previously stated, the petition for the Simmer's property along Appleschurch Road is located

1321
01:51:42,260 --> 01:51:48,640
at the corner where Appleschurch Road intersects with Roddy Road and Isler Road. This is the

1322
01:51:48,640 --> 01:51:55,200
same property that was the subject of the 2022 annexation resolution that went to a

1323
01:51:55,200 --> 01:52:01,120
referendum vote and was denied. Tonight's Planning and Zoning Commission wanted to discuss

1324
01:52:01,120 --> 01:52:07,280
the proposal after workshop, which they already have, as well as here from town residents.

1325
01:52:07,720 --> 01:52:11,640
During this public hearing, the Planning Commission can also act with the applicants,

1326
01:52:11,920 --> 01:52:17,640
ask questions of staff, ask questions of the applicant, as well as here public comment.

1327
01:52:18,540 --> 01:52:21,640
The town's code regulates how annexations are processed.

1328
01:52:22,020 --> 01:52:26,320
This is located in section 3.3 in the zoning ordinance.

1329
01:52:27,880 --> 01:52:34,260
Anxations are regulated by the state of Maryland's local government article as well as the

1330
01:52:34,260 --> 01:52:35,100
town's code.

1331
01:52:36,040 --> 01:52:41,740
The article indicates that if a complete annexation petition application is submitted

1332
01:52:41,740 --> 01:52:44,200
to the town commissioners, they must review it.

1333
01:52:44,700 --> 01:52:47,000
They cannot just outright deny it.

1334
01:52:49,800 --> 01:52:54,520
In the town's code, it specifically indicates that the board of commissioners must delegate

1335
01:52:54,520 --> 01:52:58,340
a review of the petition to the Planning and Zoning Commission.

1336
01:52:58,620 --> 01:53:04,600
The Planning and Zoning Commission is charged with developing a written recommendation to the Board of Commissioners,

1337
01:53:04,920 --> 01:53:09,580
and they serve in an advisory capacity on annexations.

1338
01:53:09,780 --> 01:53:10,940
They don't make the decision.

1339
01:53:11,780 --> 01:53:15,400
The Board of Commissioners holds a public hearing before making their decisions.

1340
01:53:16,080 --> 01:53:19,940
They are the sole decision makers on annexations.

1341
01:53:19,940 --> 01:53:29,540
The planning and zoning commission has several items they must report on to the board of commissioners.

1342
01:53:29,920 --> 01:53:35,420
The degree of conformance with the Thermot master plan in general and specifically in regards

1343
01:53:35,420 --> 01:53:39,340
to the Thermot municipal growth element in the master plan.

1344
01:53:40,020 --> 01:53:45,960
They must report on the availability of public facilities and services to meet the demands

1345
01:53:45,960 --> 01:53:47,500
of the proposed development.

1346
01:53:47,500 --> 01:53:54,980
They must report on the viability and practicality of public improvement plans for utilities

1347
01:53:54,980 --> 01:53:57,280
and services for the post-development.

1348
01:53:58,200 --> 01:54:03,900
They must also address if the annexation proposal should be approved or denied as well

1349
01:54:03,900 --> 01:54:08,860
as any conditions of approval if they so choose to make that recommendation.

1350
01:54:09,540 --> 01:54:17,060
Review of the concept plan per the town code on concept plans which is located in 3.1.4

1351
01:54:17,060 --> 01:54:22,320
of the zone ordinance, as well as the proposed zoning district.

1352
01:54:23,260 --> 01:54:28,840
They must also report on how the annexation proposal impacts the planning and timing

1353
01:54:28,840 --> 01:54:34,640
of infrastructure, and they must report on what the zoning classification of the property

1354
01:54:34,640 --> 01:54:36,700
should be upon annexation.

1355
01:54:38,200 --> 01:54:43,520
The concept plan will be held to the regulations of concept plans in the town code.

1356
01:54:46,360 --> 01:54:52,440
Thermaltz annexation process is unique from other municipalities, and that it requires

1357
01:54:52,440 --> 01:54:56,020
an detailed concept plan, as you can see here.

1358
01:54:56,340 --> 01:55:04,380
A lot of other municipalities just have a very amoeba-like concept that processes with

1359
01:55:04,380 --> 01:55:05,360
an annexation plan.

1360
01:55:05,560 --> 01:55:09,400
So we really get into the NITS with planning here.

1361
01:55:09,400 --> 01:55:16,320
So the concept plan associated with any project tends to go through multiple

1362
01:55:17,200 --> 01:55:22,200
reiterations where recommendations are made and the applicant addresses those by

1363
01:55:22,200 --> 01:55:27,880
amending their concept plan. And they have done that here tonight so you have a

1364
01:55:27,880 --> 01:55:34,120
different rendering than what we saw in January. This can create multiple

1365
01:55:34,120 --> 01:55:39,200
versions of the plan so that it should be expected at this point and through the

1366
01:55:39,200 --> 01:55:44,820
review process. And it can even change after you all make your recommendation. It can

1367
01:55:44,820 --> 01:55:49,900
change with the mayor and commissioners during their review process and negotiation process.

1368
01:55:50,840 --> 01:55:57,380
The concept plan is a binding agreement between the developer and the town. As a matter of

1369
01:55:57,380 --> 01:56:03,060
fact, if an annexation is approved, the applicant must still submit to the town to you the planning

1370
01:56:03,060 --> 01:56:08,260
and zoning commission and a subdivision plaque and a site plans review. So you'll get even

1371
01:56:08,260 --> 01:56:15,160
more into the details of those plans in the future if everything aligns.

1372
01:56:15,920 --> 01:56:20,940
And any plan submitted must be in compliance with the approved annexation concept plan.

1373
01:56:25,050 --> 01:56:29,990
The property currently has a portion within town limits and a larger portion that is located

1374
01:56:29,990 --> 01:56:31,130
outside of town limits.

1375
01:56:31,650 --> 01:56:38,070
The cart within town is approximately 7.79 acres that is currently zoned to our five high

1376
01:56:38,070 --> 01:56:39,050
density residential.

1377
01:56:39,050 --> 01:56:44,990
It allows for a maximum density of approximately 10 dwellings per acre.

1378
01:56:45,350 --> 01:56:50,910
The larger part of the parcel was located outside of the town, municipal boundary and

1379
01:56:50,910 --> 01:56:53,090
is directly attached to the town.

1380
01:56:53,630 --> 01:57:01,030
The county portion of the parcel is over 16 acres in size and is zone agriculture in the

1381
01:57:01,030 --> 01:57:01,230
county.

1382
01:57:02,510 --> 01:57:08,390
The proposed zoning for the property is R5, which is the zoning category recommended in the

1383
01:57:08,390 --> 01:57:12,190
master plan and you can see that on the map there in front of you are

1384
01:57:12,190 --> 01:57:15,790
zoning map as well as the growth area map.

1385
01:57:21,310 --> 01:57:23,330
One of the key elements is adequate

1386
01:57:23,330 --> 01:57:28,370
public facilities and that you must address in your review process and comments to

1387
01:57:28,370 --> 01:57:33,930
the mayor commissioners. One, an impact or traffic impact study must be done

1388
01:57:33,930 --> 01:57:39,530
and of course the applicant has acknowledged that and is intending to allow that

1389
01:57:39,530 --> 01:57:46,910
to occur. Water capacity is available there will be a need for some system upgrades and obviously

1390
01:57:46,910 --> 01:57:54,250
infrastructure will have to be extended into the site at the developer's expense. The sewer

1391
01:57:54,250 --> 01:57:59,570
capacity is available but there will also need to be certain upgrades to the existing pump station

1392
01:58:00,160 --> 01:58:06,350
and obviously the infrastructure will have to be extended into the site again at the developer's

1393
01:58:06,350 --> 01:58:14,370
costs and the developer also have to install sanitary sewer grinder pumps for the assisted

1394
01:58:14,370 --> 01:58:20,350
living facility that's proposed. According to Frederick County Public Schools quarterly

1395
01:58:20,350 --> 01:58:26,950
report schools are operating below capacity and it is expected to remain below capacity

1396
01:58:27,290 --> 01:58:33,230
for the next ten years. Electric service from the town is available to serve the community

1397
01:58:33,230 --> 01:58:40,890
And it would be served via Isla Road, and require electric system upgrades and lines would also have to be extended

1398
01:58:40,890 --> 01:58:44,870
extended into the site at the developer's cost.

1399
01:58:46,130 --> 01:58:53,830
Emergency services have provided comments, which you all have, and the items of concern were roadwayed with.

1400
01:58:54,910 --> 01:59:00,950
No parking along the streets except for where parallel bump-outs are provided.

1401
01:59:00,950 --> 01:59:07,730
full street connection to Luther Drive, rather than just an emergency access, only connection.

1402
01:59:08,770 --> 01:59:18,270
And the assisted living facility will also produce additional stress on the already stressed ambulance company.

1403
01:59:19,790 --> 01:59:26,930
As previously stated, the property is in the town's growth area of the master plan.

1404
01:59:26,930 --> 01:59:33,310
And the applicant is proposing an R5 zoning, which, again, is compliant with the master plan.

1405
01:59:34,810 --> 01:59:35,390
That's it.

1406
01:59:38,080 --> 01:59:39,360
Any questions for Kelly?

1407
01:59:42,200 --> 01:59:42,720
Okay.

1408
01:59:42,960 --> 01:59:44,120
We'll invite the applicant up.

1409
01:59:48,200 --> 01:59:51,940
Madam Chairman, I'm Daniel Cross, Cross and Company and Frederick Merrill on the contract

1410
01:59:51,940 --> 01:59:53,160
purchase or the parcel.

1411
01:59:54,600 --> 01:59:58,980
I would like to do a quick summation, but I'm actually much more interested in hearing the

1412
01:59:58,980 --> 01:59:59,960
public comments. This is

1413
02:00:00,000 --> 02:00:29,940
Good evening, and being able to respond to them, then giving you the same briefing I've given on a couple of occasions. What I would point out is we believe we are responding to the citizens overturning the last annexation request that the then planning commission approved and that the then board of commissioners approved. What we believe we heard was that we had too high a density, even though we followed instruction to that level of density. And our building style of

1414
02:00:29,940 --> 02:00:31,640
the condominium apartment buildings

1415
02:00:31,640 --> 02:00:33,780
was not considered appropriate for Thermite.

1416
02:00:34,180 --> 02:00:37,400
What we've come back with is 11 single family homes

1417
02:00:37,900 --> 02:00:39,860
on the west side of the site,

1418
02:00:40,420 --> 02:00:42,260
abutting the single family homes

1419
02:00:42,260 --> 02:00:43,980
that are on Apple's church road

1420
02:00:44,560 --> 02:00:45,860
or that are in pleasant acres

1421
02:00:45,860 --> 02:00:48,740
so that if you're in a single family home

1422
02:00:48,740 --> 02:00:50,840
out there today and you look at your window,

1423
02:00:51,140 --> 02:00:53,800
you see a similar house type to what you have.

1424
02:00:54,740 --> 02:01:00,660
We placed the senior living primary bedroom

1425
02:01:00,660 --> 02:01:08,140
on the ground floor senior living villa townhouses on the uphill section of budding Albert

1426
02:01:08,140 --> 02:01:15,900
Courts age 55 next to intended senior living and we placed the family townhouses, I have

1427
02:01:15,900 --> 02:01:21,640
to be careful as a broker, I can't say family, the open market townhouses on the downhill

1428
02:01:21,640 --> 02:01:28,400
site and I provided during our work session part of our rationale as far as reducing the

1429
02:01:28,400 --> 02:01:29,520
vertical size.

1430
02:01:30,320 --> 02:01:36,540
As said during the work session, the concept 2 version 2 that you have up is because we've

1431
02:01:36,540 --> 02:01:41,940
gone to 60 foot road right-of-ways, not yet a requirement of the town, but anticipating

1432
02:01:41,940 --> 02:01:43,300
that that might happen.

1433
02:01:44,240 --> 02:01:51,180
And we are providing for storm order for our community at the bottom of the hill, frankly

1434
02:01:51,180 --> 02:01:56,040
where it has always been shown in all the concept plans that go back to Albert courts in the

1435
02:01:56,040 --> 02:02:02,580
early 90s and we are providing a possible solution for Albert Court's current storm

1436
02:02:02,580 --> 02:02:07,040
motor management issues at the top of the hill. I stand ready for questions.

1437
02:02:09,500 --> 02:02:13,980
I've got one about the you keep saying about the 55 plus are you going to

1438
02:02:13,980 --> 02:02:18,180
designate homes to only be 55 plus in this community? No, they're just going to

1439
02:02:18,180 --> 02:02:22,680
be designed that way. They're designed to that accord but you know there may be

1440
02:02:22,680 --> 02:02:26,300
younger people who want a bedroom on the ground floor with a primary bathroom

1441
02:02:26,300 --> 02:02:29,140
and 36-inch stores and a no-zero threshold shower.

1442
02:02:29,280 --> 02:02:31,020
I looked at your May-a-states a few times.

1443
02:02:35,740 --> 02:02:37,220
Would you do you think it's appropriate

1444
02:02:37,220 --> 02:02:39,100
that we've finished a conversation about this

1445
02:02:39,100 --> 02:02:39,840
from one of my management?

1446
02:02:41,960 --> 02:02:42,760
That would be the workshop.

1447
02:02:43,240 --> 02:02:45,020
We didn't really ask questions of it.

1448
02:02:45,200 --> 02:02:46,380
Do you want to do that first?

1449
02:02:46,840 --> 02:02:47,140
I don't.

1450
02:02:47,460 --> 02:02:48,240
Personally, I have any questions.

1451
02:02:48,440 --> 02:02:49,560
Do that after the comments.

1452
02:02:49,820 --> 02:02:50,180
I do.

1453
02:02:50,280 --> 02:02:50,760
You do comments.

1454
02:02:51,600 --> 02:02:51,960
Okay.

1455
02:02:52,160 --> 02:02:53,580
But the folks have waited a long time.

1456
02:02:53,900 --> 02:02:54,120
Okay.

1457
02:02:54,300 --> 02:02:55,420
Yeah, exactly.

1458
02:02:56,140 --> 02:02:56,400
All right.

1459
02:02:57,580 --> 02:02:57,760
Okay.

1460
02:02:57,800 --> 02:02:59,360
So we're going to go into public comment.

1461
02:03:02,220 --> 02:03:07,060
We're going to go right down the list, so when I call your name, please come to the podium.

1462
02:03:08,660 --> 02:03:09,500
Bernadette Wright,

1463
02:03:11,750 --> 02:03:12,930
Mary Crutchley,

1464
02:03:15,210 --> 02:03:17,950
Daniel Cross, David Fogel,

1465
02:03:20,920 --> 02:03:22,400
please state your name

1466
02:03:22,400 --> 02:03:25,200
if you live in town, and if you've been sworn in, please.

1467
02:03:26,540 --> 02:03:30,200
David Fogel, I have a 121 mortistry.

1468
02:03:30,820 --> 02:03:36,040
I asked the question about back up after this one, two or three years from now.

1469
02:03:36,840 --> 02:03:41,900
If the bill is going to dry out there because that house development, are you guys coming

1470
02:03:41,900 --> 02:03:43,140
back to replacing the bills?

1471
02:03:44,720 --> 02:03:50,680
A point-of-order, sir, make sure that you please address all of your questions and concerns

1472
02:03:50,680 --> 02:03:51,760
directly to the commission.

1473
02:03:52,560 --> 02:03:58,060
The applicant, he will come back and answer, but just make sure that you're posing the

1474
02:03:58,060 --> 02:04:00,000
questions to the commission and to staff, please.

1475
02:04:00,620 --> 02:04:06,260
I just asked about the wells, if the wells go straight out there because of the development,

1476
02:04:07,280 --> 02:04:11,620
they're going to come back and drill us a new well, or as a town people might have paid

1477
02:04:11,620 --> 02:04:17,180
for a new well and so, and another thing, who's going to take care of all the streets and

1478
02:04:17,180 --> 02:04:21,760
stuff out there once they move out, is that going to be up to the town, or is that going

1479
02:04:21,760 --> 02:04:27,860
to be up to the development out there, have some like repaced black tops and the sidewalks

1480
02:04:27,860 --> 02:04:28,700
and stuff that they get?

1481
02:04:28,700 --> 02:04:32,380
Are you talking about the existing development that's already there?

1482
02:04:33,120 --> 02:04:38,600
But for Albert's court, is that what's called the currently?

1483
02:04:39,360 --> 02:04:39,520
No.

1484
02:04:41,120 --> 02:04:44,600
I mean, the townhouses under the condos.

1485
02:04:44,980 --> 02:04:46,280
Yeah, that's all part of Albert's court.

1486
02:04:46,760 --> 02:04:49,840
Okay, so your concern is the existing Albert courts?

1487
02:04:50,640 --> 02:04:52,560
I'm talking about the development you're putting in here.

1488
02:04:53,040 --> 02:04:55,720
So you're talking about the new development.

1489
02:04:55,900 --> 02:04:57,940
Those are going to be public streets.

1490
02:04:57,940 --> 02:05:04,580
So the town would be maintaining those the town can't handle what they got now. How they got a handle note of element

1491
02:05:05,880 --> 02:05:07,320
That's a lot of people out there

1492
02:05:08,460 --> 02:05:14,080
You come up right right now sometimes in the evening. It's back back the clean down past town

1493
02:05:14,080 --> 02:05:17,020
Fork you're talking about not a two hundred quarters in the town limits

1494
02:05:19,000 --> 02:05:20,560
That's all I thank you, sir.

1495
02:05:23,670 --> 02:05:24,650
Renee Freely

1496
02:05:29,710 --> 02:05:31,830
Rocky Freely

1497
02:05:36,990 --> 02:05:38,550
a question about the lawsuit.

1498
02:05:39,550 --> 02:05:41,170
You're suing the residents for something.

1499
02:05:41,170 --> 02:05:41,890
Sir, a point of order.

1500
02:05:42,410 --> 02:05:42,510
Yeah.

1501
02:05:43,070 --> 02:05:44,830
You please address all of your questions

1502
02:05:44,830 --> 02:05:46,270
to concerns to the commission and staff.

1503
02:05:46,410 --> 02:05:48,670
OK, this is a question too, Daniel, though.

1504
02:05:48,890 --> 02:05:52,390
He is sued the residents of Thermont for $75,000 a piece

1505
02:05:52,970 --> 02:05:54,330
for something they didn't do.

1506
02:05:54,530 --> 02:05:55,150
They can't control.

1507
02:05:55,830 --> 02:05:57,550
And they couldn't even fix it if they tried.

1508
02:05:57,910 --> 02:05:58,710
What is the goal with that?

1509
02:06:01,860 --> 02:06:02,520
Thank you, sir.

1510
02:06:03,600 --> 02:06:04,920
He's not going to answer that.

1511
02:06:05,160 --> 02:06:05,740
No, he's not going to.

1512
02:06:05,740 --> 02:06:06,780
This isn't a Q&A.

1513
02:06:06,780 --> 02:06:07,960
This is public comment.

1514
02:06:07,960 --> 02:06:13,240
I do want to make another comment and he's one of these people is my daughter and basically

1515
02:06:13,240 --> 02:06:16,500
your holder hostage so my patients with you is just about expired.

1516
02:06:21,200 --> 02:06:21,580
Okay.

1517
02:06:21,740 --> 02:06:23,420
Alicia Kuchinski.

1518
02:06:35,770 --> 02:06:37,030
Oh, my name is Alicia Kuchinski.

1519
02:06:37,350 --> 02:06:39,390
I'm a resident, and I have been sworn in.

1520
02:06:40,490 --> 02:06:45,910
I'm part of that 800 pound gorilla that was mentioned earlier in the workshop.

1521
02:06:46,770 --> 02:06:52,270
And the 800 pound gorilla isn't the rainwater, it's what Mr. Freely talked about.

1522
02:06:52,270 --> 02:07:00,490
It is the lawsuit and I so appreciate your time and your attention to detail but at this

1523
02:07:00,490 --> 02:07:02,550
point in time it's null and void.

1524
02:07:03,530 --> 02:07:09,290
How can you give a recommendation when so many people are being sued including the town

1525
02:07:09,290 --> 02:07:12,090
and including the county?

1526
02:07:13,590 --> 02:07:19,590
I spoke about this before about it being biased so if there's a movement that you need to

1527
02:07:19,590 --> 02:07:24,750
make. I have two dates for you that should be when you can make that. So next week, April

1528
02:07:24,750 --> 02:07:30,990
3rd, we have a mediation. If that is not settled during our mediation with everything,

1529
02:07:31,550 --> 02:07:39,610
our next date is June of 2026, and that is our trial. That's the point, if it goes to

1530
02:07:39,610 --> 02:07:47,090
that, that maybe then you can look to making a recommendation. Because the first thing

1531
02:07:47,090 --> 02:07:48,510
and this is on a broader context.

1532
02:07:48,950 --> 02:07:50,590
I'm looking at precedent here.

1533
02:07:53,300 --> 02:07:55,260
It is anyone's legal right to bring a lawsuit.

1534
02:07:56,200 --> 02:07:57,440
It just, it is.

1535
02:07:58,020 --> 02:08:01,600
And you know what, summer justifiable and summer legitimate

1536
02:08:02,100 --> 02:08:04,640
and summer frivolous and a tool of manipulation.

1537
02:08:05,360 --> 02:08:06,920
And that is not up to you to decide.

1538
02:08:07,580 --> 02:08:10,940
That is up to the legal courts to decide.

1539
02:08:11,400 --> 02:08:15,420
And until that's decided, you can't make a decision

1540
02:08:15,420 --> 02:08:23,480
because it is bias and it is inherently everything is clouded and that's not fair

1541
02:08:23,480 --> 02:08:32,220
to you for what you have to do. So I think at this point it needs to be clear to

1542
02:08:32,220 --> 02:08:40,260
any developer that comes along that filing maybe a frivolous lawsuit will not

1543
02:08:40,260 --> 02:08:45,040
get them what they want because if you still allow a recommendation to be

1544
02:08:45,040 --> 02:09:04,900
We made when things are not fully settled, it is open season on anyone, including the town again, including the county and including individual members of this community, who, as Mr. Frailey just said, have no control over the situation.

1545
02:09:06,280 --> 02:09:13,680
Personally, the second reason is, it's funny that Mr. Frailey said the term hostage, because that's exactly what I have written down.

1546
02:09:13,680 --> 02:09:20,140
I am stuck in this until 2026 and I'm already looking at that point because I cannot guarantee

1547
02:09:20,140 --> 02:09:23,120
that I can be out of this by next month.

1548
02:09:24,400 --> 02:09:31,260
I am a hostage here and I do not think it is fair and it is definitely not just that

1549
02:09:31,260 --> 02:09:37,380
crossing company and patricious simmers can in the meantime while I'm being held hostage

1550
02:09:37,380 --> 02:09:44,440
benefit from a situation that they created. It is neither fair and it is neither

1551
02:09:44,440 --> 02:09:44,700
just.

1552
02:09:47,050 --> 02:09:53,370
So with that, I don't know if I can refer to what was said earlier during

1553
02:09:53,370 --> 02:09:55,690
the workshop, am I allowed to address that, or is that all?

1554
02:09:57,070 --> 02:10:01,590
No, you can make a public comment. Okay. So one of the things that I just thought was

1555
02:10:01,590 --> 02:10:10,610
interesting. We keep talking about assistant living and wider areas because most people

1556
02:10:10,610 --> 02:10:17,090
in assistant living may need help getting out and that's great. And I love the idea

1557
02:10:17,090 --> 02:10:22,090
of a multi-generational, but the idea that a grandparent who is also an assistant living

1558
02:10:22,090 --> 02:10:30,510
can take care of younger kids doesn't really, it's not, it doesn't balance out.

1559
02:10:31,470 --> 02:10:34,070
The other thing is I understand a lot about Frederick County.

1560
02:10:34,390 --> 02:10:36,790
I've been a teacher at Frederick County for 28 years now.

1561
02:10:37,590 --> 02:10:42,290
And I was at Thermont Middle School as an eighth grade language arts teacher for 20 of those

1562
02:10:42,290 --> 02:10:42,490
years.

1563
02:10:43,770 --> 02:10:50,250
And there were times we were below capacity, and I still had 120 kids because just because

1564
02:10:50,250 --> 02:10:55,850
you have just because the space is there, it doesn't mean the educators are.

1565
02:10:57,910 --> 02:11:02,010
And I know that, and there are some of you on this board that know that as well.

1566
02:11:03,150 --> 02:11:08,410
So I just think that even though we're saying, oh there's the space, there's the, it's,

1567
02:11:09,410 --> 02:11:12,570
the numbers aren't practical for what actually happens.

1568
02:11:13,610 --> 02:11:14,690
So thank you again.

1569
02:11:14,970 --> 02:11:17,030
I appreciate your time, and I appreciate your effort.

1570
02:11:17,030 --> 02:11:26,910
But I will reiterate that it needs to be delayed until everybody is off.

1571
02:11:28,660 --> 02:11:34,050
Or this total legal situation is completed and finished.

1572
02:11:34,310 --> 02:11:37,130
And if that's 2026, that's 2026.

1573
02:11:37,570 --> 02:11:39,710
If I'm in it, they will be two.

1574
02:11:40,710 --> 02:11:41,270
Thank you.

1575
02:11:41,270 --> 02:11:41,850
I'm

1576
02:11:52,000 --> 02:11:57,000
Earl Maine resident off of Cody Drive and I've been sworn in.

1577
02:11:57,460 --> 02:11:59,380
Z-Wiz, I haven't got much to say now.

1578
02:12:01,520 --> 02:12:05,960
I'm going to dress up and it's a little minor compared to what just was said.

1579
02:12:08,160 --> 02:12:13,720
And mainly it's the, I can't speak too much for easy street, but it might be the same.

1580
02:12:13,940 --> 02:12:19,860
But Luther Drive, you currently cannot get two cars to pass.

1581
02:12:19,860 --> 02:12:27,740
on Luther Drive because there's parking on both sides of the street. If this is

1582
02:12:27,740 --> 02:12:34,200
extended through as a non, you know, as an actual street and not in emergency

1583
02:12:34,200 --> 02:12:41,560
access, there's going to be issues that you're going to have to deal with on the

1584
02:12:41,560 --> 02:12:47,880
town side going in. You're going to have to make it parking on only one side in

1585
02:12:47,880 --> 02:12:49,380
in order to get two guards to pass,

1586
02:12:50,280 --> 02:12:52,460
especially if you have parking on both sides,

1587
02:12:52,640 --> 02:12:54,140
and you do have emergency vehicles

1588
02:12:54,140 --> 02:12:56,080
that need to through that access,

1589
02:12:57,140 --> 02:12:58,420
you're not gonna get them through.

1590
02:12:59,720 --> 02:13:01,540
So it becomes a safety issue.

1591
02:13:06,280 --> 02:13:07,280
That's about all I got.

1592
02:13:08,480 --> 02:13:09,220
Thanks a lot.

1593
02:13:10,420 --> 02:13:11,160
Thank you.

1594
02:13:12,460 --> 02:13:13,180
Dan Twig.

1595
02:13:24,080 --> 02:13:25,540
Hello, my name's Dan Twig.

1596
02:13:25,880 --> 02:13:28,040
I am not a resident, but I'm a property owner

1597
02:13:28,040 --> 02:13:30,900
of the Albrecht Court II Condo Development,

1598
02:13:30,900 --> 02:13:37,580
and I have been sworn in. I have a couple of things I just want to just hit on it. I've already

1599
02:13:37,580 --> 02:13:46,880
been talked about in the preliminary traffic. I think Mr. Maine just he indicated very well that this

1600
02:13:47,920 --> 02:13:54,220
access to the development of a Luther is definitely not wide enough for traffic flow with cars

1601
02:13:54,220 --> 02:14:00,640
park on either side. He's absolutely right. Compounded that is Easy Street is

1602
02:14:00,640 --> 02:14:08,000
worse. It is not as wide as Luther. So Easy Street is even tighter and you're

1603
02:14:08,000 --> 02:14:11,940
only getting one car with cars parked on either side of Easy Street, which

1604
02:14:11,940 --> 02:14:17,780
there is, along the townhouses here and street parking here, you can only pass

1605
02:14:17,780 --> 02:14:24,200
one car. Now my concern is with this proposed development concept, if you

1606
02:14:24,200 --> 02:14:32,300
If you look at a broader picture, easy street of a North Carol extended would become a main

1607
02:14:32,300 --> 02:14:35,040
access point into the development.

1608
02:14:35,880 --> 02:14:43,180
Because people aren't going to want to go down Apple's Church to that entrance or most

1609
02:14:43,180 --> 02:14:48,000
traffic is not going to come off the Gracie and Apple's Church access road to access it there.

1610
02:14:48,000 --> 02:14:55,100
The North Carroll Street extension becomes the main access point because it's

1611
02:14:55,100 --> 02:14:59,840
closer to the assisted living facility. It's the best access the

1612
02:15:02,200 --> 02:15:29,780
So, you're accessing most points off of the easy street extension which becomes the main access in and out of that development which is the worst entrance to access the development. That's the main point. The second point is nobody's really addressing. We've talked about all of the intersections on Carroll Street and Apple's Church and Main Street all those intersections and the traffic impact of those intersections.

1613
02:15:29,780 --> 02:15:37,680
But what nobody is looking at is if that is true and traffic is truly impacted in all those intersections,

1614
02:15:38,340 --> 02:15:43,240
people are going to start looking for another access point or another easy and easy out.

1615
02:15:43,840 --> 02:15:50,940
My fear is that people start to go down here and they want to access the Apple's Church Graceham road,

1616
02:15:51,820 --> 02:15:57,200
which runs from there to Graceham intersection, which is a horrible intersection,

1617
02:15:57,200 --> 02:16:00,320
section you cannot see when you get to that great state of

1618
02:16:00,320 --> 02:16:05,720
intersection you cannot see going east. It's a blind

1619
02:16:05,720 --> 02:16:08,520
intersection but what people are going to want to do is they're

1620
02:16:08,520 --> 02:16:10,540
going to want to find an easier way to get to Walker'sville

1621
02:16:10,540 --> 02:16:15,920
Woodsburg Frederick. That becomes a very easy access point to

1622
02:16:15,920 --> 02:16:21,800
points south and east without with avoiding all the traffic

1623
02:16:21,800 --> 02:16:25,960
congestion that may be created in town. They're going to look

1624
02:16:25,960 --> 02:16:34,920
for an easier route. Grey's hand road is not. It's not. Basically designed for that

1625
02:16:34,920 --> 02:16:39,640
kind of traffic. I don't even think it's straight. I don't know. I don't even think it's

1626
02:16:39,640 --> 02:16:48,060
straight. Definitely not. It's very dangerous. So traffic is definitely still a main concern

1627
02:16:48,060 --> 02:16:53,170
for the approval of this concept plan. I don't think we've even touched on some of the

1628
02:16:53,170 --> 02:16:58,630
line areas of traffic we haven't even looked at or what could potentially become a problem.

1629
02:16:59,390 --> 02:17:05,330
But the other thing that Mr. Cross and his team have not even really talked about is

1630
02:17:05,990 --> 02:17:07,610
this is not a short-term project.

1631
02:17:09,010 --> 02:17:12,810
So they're talking about the impact of traffic and the traffic studies of traffic now.

1632
02:17:13,850 --> 02:17:19,230
But we've addressed this before, nobody's talking about the impact of the construction workers,

1633
02:17:19,230 --> 02:17:26,610
the construction vehicles, the equipment, the hauling in and out of materials that's going

1634
02:17:26,610 --> 02:17:31,170
to add to the construction to the traffic problems during the whole project.

1635
02:17:31,270 --> 02:17:32,590
This is not a one year or two year.

1636
02:17:32,830 --> 02:17:39,550
We're talking about a long term project, so the construction impact to traffic is going

1637
02:17:39,550 --> 02:17:40,750
to be huge.

1638
02:17:41,270 --> 02:17:46,210
You're talking about tractor trailers, big equipment, a lot of workers, a lot of just workers that

1639
02:17:46,210 --> 02:17:49,050
they're going to be also added to that traffic study.

1640
02:17:49,390 --> 02:17:52,270
They never even put that into the traffic study.

1641
02:17:52,910 --> 02:17:55,910
It was never mentioned, the impact of construction.

1642
02:17:58,170 --> 02:18:00,790
Now, and I'm chairman, so you hear question earlier.

1643
02:18:00,990 --> 02:18:02,150
I don't think you ever really got an answer.

1644
02:18:02,590 --> 02:18:05,110
I don't think Mr. Cross didn't understand the question.

1645
02:18:05,210 --> 02:18:06,450
He was just trying to avoid the question.

1646
02:18:06,750 --> 02:18:11,490
When you said, where can we go to see this type of development?

1647
02:18:12,930 --> 02:18:14,370
And he really didn't answer that.

1648
02:18:14,430 --> 02:18:15,710
Now as lawyer came up and said, there's

1649
02:18:15,710 --> 02:18:23,710
development of Frederick that has 600 and some units houses, whatever. But again, he

1650
02:18:23,710 --> 02:18:29,190
kind of avoided that question because it really isn't comparable to this. So where can

1651
02:18:29,190 --> 02:18:35,430
we go to see this? They really never answered that. I don't know. Where can you go to see

1652
02:18:35,430 --> 02:18:40,990
a site plan like this? They didn't really give us an answer to that. I will have to admit,

1653
02:18:40,990 --> 02:18:47,690
It, you know, Mr. Cross says he addressed this area right here along the county line

1654
02:18:48,410 --> 02:18:54,050
to the town line and that they eliminated the apartment complex that were built, that

1655
02:18:54,050 --> 02:18:57,250
were proposed in concept one to be put on top of this hill.

1656
02:18:58,850 --> 02:19:02,770
They did eliminate that and I appreciate him putting that thought into it.

1657
02:19:03,510 --> 02:19:09,790
It does eliminate those four story buildings, but the whole thought process behind that was

1658
02:19:09,790 --> 02:19:14,690
that's affordable housing. You addressed it. Where do we have affordable housing coming

1659
02:19:14,690 --> 02:19:15,550
into this development?

1660
02:19:18,180 --> 02:19:22,440
I understand that apartment buildings, you're not a property owner,

1661
02:19:22,620 --> 02:19:28,400
you're renting, so it doesn't offer some kind of affordable housing, yes, it does. But our

1662
02:19:28,400 --> 02:19:35,740
complaint was aesthetically from my house or from my condo, aesthetically, what would you see

1663
02:19:36,300 --> 02:19:41,020
from behind that, looking into that apartment building,

1664
02:19:41,120 --> 02:19:43,720
because that would be right in our next line of view

1665
02:19:43,720 --> 02:19:45,900
coming out, my window, the condo.

1666
02:19:46,840 --> 02:19:48,920
Aesthetically, that would not be pleasing at all.

1667
02:19:49,400 --> 02:19:51,240
Neither would it have been very aesthetically,

1668
02:19:51,600 --> 02:19:53,720
when you're looking from 15 or even out

1669
02:19:53,720 --> 02:19:56,800
to see that line of apartment buildings on top of that hill,

1670
02:19:57,060 --> 02:19:59,800
it's not what Thurman's about, if you ask me.

1671
02:20:00,480 --> 02:20:03,060
It's not what we represent, it's not what we want to represent.

1672
02:20:03,060 --> 02:20:04,180
That's what we want to look like.

1673
02:20:05,640 --> 02:20:09,460
This in its entirety is still a massive, massive,

1674
02:20:10,600 --> 02:20:11,700
dense development.

1675
02:20:12,280 --> 02:20:14,320
As he scaled it down from the original,

1676
02:20:14,320 --> 02:20:16,520
whatever it was, 170 some units to 100.

1677
02:20:17,120 --> 02:20:17,720
But is it now?

1678
02:20:18,820 --> 02:20:19,080
100?

1679
02:20:19,260 --> 02:20:19,540
Sure.

1680
02:20:20,540 --> 02:20:21,280
It is.

1681
02:20:21,660 --> 02:20:27,080
But you're still looking at a primary townhouse,

1682
02:20:27,680 --> 02:20:30,700
three-story home development.

1683
02:20:31,440 --> 02:20:36,460
now it has added the what he called the 11 single family homes again I

1684
02:20:36,460 --> 02:20:40,280
appreciate him doing that I did understand the concern of the people living

1685
02:20:40,280 --> 02:20:44,660
along Appleshurst Road we didn't want to see townhouses and three story

1686
02:20:44,660 --> 02:20:49,060
buildings right out our backyard now they're gonna see single family homes

1687
02:20:49,060 --> 02:20:54,280
there that wasn't compromised I appreciate him doing that but in the overall

1688
02:20:54,280 --> 02:21:00,140
concept of the whole plan it doesn't solve the issue of the mass development that

1689
02:21:00,140 --> 02:21:00,920
we're talking about putting in.

1690
02:21:01,400 --> 02:21:06,100
Now, going back to, as Mr. Cross eloquently put it,

1691
02:21:06,120 --> 02:21:10,020
the 800 pound gorilla in the room, my question is,

1692
02:21:11,120 --> 02:21:14,060
what he's telling us right now is this dorm water management

1693
02:21:14,700 --> 02:21:18,460
area for the Albert courts to and the Gateway community,

1694
02:21:21,000 --> 02:21:24,580
if he's allowed to put this in, then all of a sudden,

1695
02:21:25,020 --> 02:21:28,600
that becomes a non-issue problem solved.

1696
02:21:29,460 --> 02:21:38,160
It's taking care of. No more worries. If you allow me to do it. My question is, is if we say no right now,

1697
02:21:39,620 --> 02:21:47,200
what happens to that? Does that continue to go on into litigation from the town to the county, to the residents?

1698
02:21:48,220 --> 02:21:55,520
I mean, where does that end right now? He's kind of using that over our heads saying, oh no, you'll prove this and that goes away.

1699
02:21:55,520 --> 02:21:56,280
Hey, will they care that?

1700
02:21:56,840 --> 02:21:57,760
Will they care that?

1701
02:21:58,120 --> 02:22:00,520
That will become Albert Courts, too,

1702
02:22:00,600 --> 02:22:02,200
in the Gateway Community Store and Water Management

1703
02:22:02,200 --> 02:22:02,780
answer.

1704
02:22:05,590 --> 02:22:06,830
I'll agree with Ms. Consensi.

1705
02:22:06,930 --> 02:22:07,990
Don't hold that over my head.

1706
02:22:08,130 --> 02:22:09,070
Let's fix that first.

1707
02:22:10,130 --> 02:22:13,630
Let's resolve that first so that no matter what happens,

1708
02:22:14,190 --> 02:22:16,750
that isn't an issue with the town, with the county,

1709
02:22:16,930 --> 02:22:17,550
or the residents.

1710
02:22:19,490 --> 02:22:20,590
I mean, I don't understand.

1711
02:22:20,870 --> 02:22:23,410
I really don't understand how we could, like,

1712
02:22:23,710 --> 02:22:25,510
Ms. Consensi, how can we move forward

1713
02:22:25,510 --> 02:22:27,430
with that looming over our heads.

1714
02:22:28,450 --> 02:22:29,170
I don't understand.

1715
02:22:30,330 --> 02:22:32,830
The other issue is as far as we're concerned

1716
02:22:33,170 --> 02:22:35,810
that Mr. Crossbreed to my attention that the last meeting

1717
02:22:35,810 --> 02:22:38,590
that in a clause when this was originally,

1718
02:22:39,490 --> 02:22:41,470
when the easement was originally approved

1719
02:22:42,270 --> 02:22:47,210
and that stormwater management facility was agreed upon

1720
02:22:47,990 --> 02:22:51,410
with Miss Simmers, well, with Doc Simmers at the time, Kenneth

1721
02:22:52,050 --> 02:22:53,790
and the town and the county.

1722
02:22:54,830 --> 02:23:03,390
that that would be a complete stormwater management pond and upon completion that the maintenance

1723
02:23:03,390 --> 02:23:08,830
and care of that stormwater management facility would have been turned over to the Albert

1724
02:23:08,830 --> 02:23:16,590
Courts 2 community, Gateway Community and Albert Courts 2 condo association to maintain it.

1725
02:23:16,590 --> 02:23:21,730
Well as far as I know, that was never completed and it's entirely.

1726
02:23:22,730 --> 02:23:28,050
So, how can you hold that over the residents, the condo association, the gateway community?

1727
02:23:28,190 --> 02:23:32,030
How can you hold it over their heads to say, well, that has never been maintained?

1728
02:23:33,210 --> 02:23:35,050
The county hasn't been inspecting it.

1729
02:23:35,910 --> 02:23:38,910
How can we maintain something that was never completed?

1730
02:23:41,440 --> 02:23:42,080
It was never completed.

1731
02:23:42,200 --> 02:23:43,700
It was supposed to be an alternative plan.

1732
02:23:43,860 --> 02:23:45,520
Okay, this was a three year agreement.

1733
02:23:45,520 --> 02:23:49,080
we had a three-year agreement, you can use it, but there's going to either have to be

1734
02:23:49,080 --> 02:23:56,040
a provision that that becomes the permanent facility or another facility is developed

1735
02:23:56,600 --> 02:24:01,360
and completed and then turned over to the Albert Courts too in the community.

1736
02:24:01,880 --> 02:24:02,700
That was never done.

1737
02:24:03,840 --> 02:24:10,060
So once again, how can we hold the residents, the property owners, how can we hold them responsible,

1738
02:24:10,060 --> 02:24:21,780
How can we sue somebody that has no say in the maintenance or the care or the ongoing process of that stored modern management?

1739
02:24:22,400 --> 02:24:32,020
My recommendation to the committee is just like Ms. Cousinsi's head, we don't move forward with this until this whole 800 pound gorilla is resolved.

1740
02:24:32,900 --> 02:24:38,080
That would be my recommendations to you guys as the planning and zoning commission.

1741
02:24:39,000 --> 02:24:45,800
I'm sorry until we know the answer to this, not only now, but moving forward, if this

1742
02:24:45,800 --> 02:24:51,560
is or is not approved, where do we go with that storm water management?

1743
02:24:54,550 --> 02:24:58,870
I do want to make one other exception, he said about the hammock or hills development

1744
02:24:59,790 --> 02:25:03,370
and the price of housing up there and this is going to be much more affordable.

1745
02:25:03,370 --> 02:25:10,130
So I have yet to see a home on Handmaker Hills come anywhere close to $550,000.

1746
02:25:10,750 --> 02:25:12,670
I watch the real estate listings all the time.

1747
02:25:12,830 --> 02:25:15,310
They're here between $490,000, $50,000.

1748
02:25:15,370 --> 02:25:19,410
That's a lot of money, but I haven't seen anything come close to $550 up there.

1749
02:25:20,390 --> 02:25:24,030
And where he got the number that they're going to go to $590,000?

1750
02:25:24,030 --> 02:25:24,650
I have no idea.

1751
02:25:24,910 --> 02:25:26,510
Unless he knows a realtor that I don't know.

1752
02:25:26,930 --> 02:25:30,570
I know a lot of realtors in areas, nobody's told me they're going to shoot up to $600,000.

1753
02:25:31,450 --> 02:25:38,030
and also when he talks about the three-story townhomes I know my son has a

1754
02:25:38,030 --> 02:25:42,450
three-story townhome on Lake and Leckler there. Those three-story townhomes are

1755
02:25:42,450 --> 02:25:49,270
now 350, 360,000 that's realistic so that's the kind of prices that you're

1756
02:25:49,270 --> 02:25:55,470
talking about for this development with all these three-story townhomes that's

1757
02:25:55,470 --> 02:25:59,430
That's the price of houses, like it or not, that's a reality.

1758
02:26:01,230 --> 02:26:07,330
But I mean, I think you're attracting the right kind of people, I don't want to say

1759
02:26:07,330 --> 02:26:11,770
the wrong kind of people on the other end, but people that are responsible enough to purchase

1760
02:26:11,770 --> 02:26:14,190
a $360,000 home,

1761
02:26:16,360 --> 02:26:20,400
I think they're responsible enough to maintain and take care of a community.

1762
02:26:20,680 --> 02:26:23,880
So anyway, that's all I have to say.

1763
02:26:24,140 --> 02:26:24,780
Thank you for your time.

1764
02:26:25,200 --> 02:26:25,340
Thank you.

1765
02:26:25,340 --> 02:26:25,400
Thank you.

1766
02:26:25,540 --> 02:26:25,820
Thank you.

1767
02:26:29,630 --> 02:26:30,830
Matt, toll.

1768
02:26:36,650 --> 02:26:37,250
Keeney?

1769
02:26:37,250 --> 02:26:37,590
Keeney?

1770
02:26:38,490 --> 02:26:39,910
Sorry if I said your name wrong.

1771
02:26:40,490 --> 02:26:41,010
That's okay.

1772
02:26:42,150 --> 02:26:43,230
Happens all the time.

1773
02:26:44,090 --> 02:26:45,250
Good evening, everybody.

1774
02:26:46,090 --> 02:26:47,410
My name is Ruth Haney.

1775
02:26:47,850 --> 02:26:49,310
Yes, I'm a resident.

1776
02:26:49,610 --> 02:26:51,110
And yes, I did get sworn in.

1777
02:26:52,410 --> 02:26:59,390
I listened to your comments from 6 o'clock on, then scurried up here.

1778
02:27:00,550 --> 02:27:09,610
So what I have to say is also going to be given some feedback to what you all just said.

1779
02:27:10,190 --> 02:27:17,690
So it might be a big of a patchwork quilt and I'll try to make it come all together so that you'll understand it a little bit better.

1780
02:27:18,570 --> 02:27:22,630
I'm going to start out with something new. I'm giving an approach from a different angle.

1781
02:27:23,390 --> 02:27:25,130
I'm going to say thank you to someone.

1782
02:27:25,130 --> 02:27:29,490
I'm going to say thank you to each of you for the time that you've given.

1783
02:27:30,270 --> 02:27:34,730
I'm going to thank the staff over there, Kelly Doody.

1784
02:27:35,270 --> 02:27:39,050
I asked her if it was long time ago, Kelly.

1785
02:27:40,170 --> 02:27:44,230
I sent her an email and she immediately got back to me.

1786
02:27:44,450 --> 02:27:45,390
I appreciate that.

1787
02:27:46,950 --> 02:27:52,230
And I think that her purple blob slide is absolutely wonderful.

1788
02:27:52,750 --> 02:27:53,450
So keep it up.

1789
02:27:54,190 --> 02:28:00,850
I would request that if somehow you could make that be turned a little bit, because

1790
02:28:00,850 --> 02:28:06,670
I sat there and have not been able to see exactly where the people were pointing to.

1791
02:28:07,350 --> 02:28:13,970
I see the exit sign, which is over here, and if somehow you could get it so that everybody

1792
02:28:13,970 --> 02:28:15,470
could see it, that would be helpful.

1793
02:28:17,070 --> 02:28:20,050
Okay, now I said I would start with the good things.

1794
02:28:20,710 --> 02:28:25,950
I'm going to give a shout out to a commissioner, and he's not here tonight, but I want to do it.

1795
02:28:26,970 --> 02:28:34,930
And this commissioner said something in the March 4th meeting that he needs to be applauded for.

1796
02:28:35,850 --> 02:28:42,310
And I'm going to give you what he said, this was said in public, and I'm saying this is a resident.

1797
02:28:44,130 --> 02:28:52,650
This is what he said. Mr. Cross asked to meet with me privately. I have no intention

1798
02:28:52,650 --> 02:28:59,670
of meeting with the developer ever privately. It can be in a public meeting and that is

1799
02:28:59,670 --> 02:29:01,010
where business is done.

1800
02:29:03,340 --> 02:29:09,040
I want him to know how much I appreciate that. He did the right

1801
02:29:09,040 --> 02:29:14,500
Right thing for agreeing not to meet with Mr. Cross in a private setting concerning any

1802
02:29:14,500 --> 02:29:21,640
comments dealings with Zimmer's property because development and thermont requires transparency.

1803
02:29:22,440 --> 02:29:25,880
And this is what we're doing tonight and it is great.

1804
02:29:26,500 --> 02:29:27,420
So thank you.

1805
02:29:28,080 --> 02:29:37,200
I want to thank the chairperson for her insistence to continue to get the goodwill, so

1806
02:29:37,200 --> 02:29:42,480
local issue solved instead of waiting for another night. I thought that was

1807
02:29:42,480 --> 02:29:53,400
well done. Thank you. Now back to Zimmer's property. On the the Miss Meredith

1808
02:29:53,400 --> 02:29:59,760
with ask if what we have now would be interfered with some develop.

1809
02:30:00,000 --> 02:30:10,460
Yes, easy street, as other people are saying, cannot have two cars going out at the same time.

1810
02:30:10,820 --> 02:30:23,500
You've got to have one car going up. The same thing with Lucer. There is not space enough for two cars to be in that the same time. There is parking on the side.

1811
02:30:24,480 --> 02:30:33,160
And that goes to the comment made by someone, I don't know who it was, that there is the

1812
02:30:33,160 --> 02:30:38,200
ambulances, they are stretched enough as it is.

1813
02:30:38,880 --> 02:30:45,880
So if we try to get ambulances in those narrow streets, it might be a little dicey, and

1814
02:30:45,880 --> 02:30:47,060
I'm concerned with that.

1815
02:30:47,060 --> 02:30:57,740
I'm also concerned if we start to get those streets being used as another way to get around to the development,

1816
02:30:58,460 --> 02:31:07,200
that that alley that is behind the 117 building will become a racetrack.

1817
02:31:07,800 --> 02:31:12,920
We already have people who come there and do not pay any attention to,

1818
02:31:12,920 --> 02:31:19,980
This is private property. Please do not come. They come anyhow and that I think will increase.

1819
02:31:20,980 --> 02:31:33,420
I also wanted to add to the traffic study and the town planner was great with what you remembered.

1820
02:31:34,520 --> 02:31:43,740
There is, you do need to put in that traffic study at the easy street intersection of North

1821
02:31:43,740 --> 02:31:48,460
Carroll Street at the truck entrance to NVR.

1822
02:31:49,600 --> 02:31:55,180
You go down to that truck entrance and there is constant traffic.

1823
02:31:56,040 --> 02:32:04,510
That is why North Carroll Street is a pothole and if we have more construction that will get

1824
02:32:04,510 --> 02:32:04,910
worse.

1825
02:32:07,740 --> 02:32:10,580
So please think about that when you're doing that.

1826
02:32:13,220 --> 02:32:16,440
Let's see. I did that, did

1827
02:32:16,440 --> 02:32:16,720
that.

1828
02:32:21,200 --> 02:32:31,280
Now the questions that I had and looking at this were answered semi. I would

1829
02:32:31,280 --> 02:32:39,460
like for that 800 pound gorilla could get done to get cleared by 2026. I don't

1830
02:32:39,460 --> 02:32:46,380
think any of us won't go into litigation. That's not what we want. We want it to be

1831
02:32:46,380 --> 02:32:54,740
solved so that those people who are responsible get held responsible. We are

1832
02:32:54,740 --> 02:33:00,140
not responsible for that whole. We didn't dig it and we're not responsible for

1833
02:33:00,140 --> 02:33:05,980
taking care of it. So I don't want to go to litigation and I'm thinking it

1834
02:33:05,980 --> 02:33:14,560
else does. So please think about what Mr. Twig was saying and about what I've just said

1835
02:33:15,560 --> 02:33:23,340
and I appreciate what Alicia said but most of all I appreciate what you've done

1836
02:33:24,180 --> 02:33:32,680
and I hope that in a couple of months or maybe before 2026 this can be done with

1837
02:33:33,280 --> 02:33:38,980
and those people who want to sell, and by the way, there have been people who

1838
02:33:38,980 --> 02:33:43,980
have bought units there. They're not afraid of that lawsuit because they can

1839
02:33:43,980 --> 02:33:49,540
pay cash. You can still buy if you pay cash, but if you have to go through a

1840
02:33:49,540 --> 02:33:57,100
broker, then that's a different issue. Okay? So I hope that before 2026, that this

1841
02:33:57,100 --> 02:34:07,500
can be done with to everyone's willing to cooperate, but that means that you've got

1842
02:34:07,500 --> 02:34:11,960
to be transparent and you take responsibility for what you did.

1843
02:34:12,740 --> 02:34:13,340
Thank you.

1844
02:34:14,320 --> 02:34:14,840
Thank you.

1845
02:34:15,760 --> 02:34:16,660
James Clark.

1846
02:34:21,290 --> 02:34:22,010
I had Stanfield.

1847
02:34:30,840 --> 02:34:31,780
I've got a cold.

1848
02:34:32,000 --> 02:34:33,180
So I'm pretty croaky.

1849
02:34:33,840 --> 02:34:35,700
Probably contaminate the bike.

1850
02:34:35,700 --> 02:34:44,440
Ed Standfield, I'm not a resident, I'm from Middletown, I am a realtor, I'm a sort sworn

1851
02:34:44,440 --> 02:34:44,640
in.

1852
02:34:45,500 --> 02:34:55,320
I represent Miss Simmers as a listing agent, and so I feel very protective of her.

1853
02:34:56,340 --> 02:35:04,360
And her request is that if people could be a little more civil to her, whenever she goes

1854
02:35:04,360 --> 02:35:10,700
out. She really appreciated it. She said people don't try to shun her front yard. She said

1855
02:35:12,020 --> 02:35:20,880
people run across her lawn with cars and it may be kids. I don't know. She gets harassing phone

1856
02:35:20,880 --> 02:35:28,580
calls. She's not, she always checks to see who's calling now. When she goes out grocery shopping,

1857
02:35:28,580 --> 02:35:30,280
and she only states somebody with her

1858
02:35:30,820 --> 02:35:34,920
because of very uneasy on what somebody may say to her.

1859
02:35:35,400 --> 02:35:38,460
So her request, if he could be more considerate,

1860
02:35:39,100 --> 02:35:40,920
she's just trying to sell her ground

1861
02:35:41,360 --> 02:35:45,100
like she feels she should be able to.

1862
02:35:45,900 --> 02:35:47,340
That's one point.

1863
02:35:47,540 --> 02:35:50,000
The other point, from a realtor's point of view,

1864
02:35:50,700 --> 02:35:54,700
is you all know the prices of housing

1865
02:35:55,340 --> 02:36:01,620
is partly because of being scarce and it's a country we're a wide phenomena and we've

1866
02:36:01,620 --> 02:36:10,280
seen it in this area for many years now. It has not led up. Scaresty of housing causes

1867
02:36:10,280 --> 02:36:13,040
pricing to go up as you know, supply and demand.

1868
02:36:17,140 --> 02:36:21,040
Home based in Frederick, so I think people

1869
02:36:21,040 --> 02:36:26,040
coming out of Montgomery County can't afford that if you can't afford Frederick, I end up

1870
02:36:26,040 --> 02:36:30,240
in Thurmont, Myersville, Washington County, Pennsylvania,

1871
02:36:30,760 --> 02:36:33,300
and if you can't afford that, I'm over in West Virginia,

1872
02:36:33,800 --> 02:36:35,440
so I'm stepping around Bartonsburg.

1873
02:36:38,380 --> 02:36:41,160
I've sold a lot of houses here in Thurmont

1874
02:36:41,160 --> 02:36:44,180
over the years, and people love Thurmont.

1875
02:36:44,380 --> 02:36:47,860
It loved to settle here, comes down to affordability,

1876
02:36:48,460 --> 02:36:53,520
and subdivision like this would just help considerably

1877
02:36:53,520 --> 02:37:02,980
considerably on supply. The other thing I've seen change is first-time home buyers who

1878
02:37:02,980 --> 02:37:09,400
used to always be in their 20s now seem to be in their 30s because of affordability.

1879
02:37:10,200 --> 02:37:15,720
After wait longer, try to save longer. Meanwhile, save like a maniac. Meanwhile, the prices

1880
02:37:15,720 --> 02:37:25,280
keep going up. So I'm all for a subdivision like this. I understand concerns because I work

1881
02:37:25,280 --> 02:37:30,180
those sides by our Zant sellers affordable

1882
02:37:32,320 --> 02:37:37,300
or whatever you label to pick it on at least

1883
02:37:37,300 --> 02:37:43,780
it's not the really jacked up high price. The large percentage of people can't afford. The other

1884
02:37:43,780 --> 02:37:48,000
The point is youth make any community.

1885
02:37:48,120 --> 02:37:50,980
If you don't have youth coming up, whether it be housing,

1886
02:37:51,460 --> 02:37:57,700
churches, schools, or always a site of good things coming.

1887
02:37:59,460 --> 02:38:02,420
The comparative issue you always use is Cumberland.

1888
02:38:04,880 --> 02:38:08,960
I guess you all heard six months ago where they were given away $10,000

1889
02:38:09,620 --> 02:38:13,380
just to get people to move up there to go towards their closing cost.

1890
02:38:14,100 --> 02:38:20,760
And that's what happens to any of this, not growing, it's shrinking, it's not good.

1891
02:38:21,740 --> 02:38:26,820
Wild growth is one thing, but modern growth is much better, I think, you know, some

1892
02:38:26,820 --> 02:38:29,140
divisions like this, I think, will help along that.

1893
02:38:31,690 --> 02:38:38,710
And rather than trying to call them as simmers, if you want to call me out, I'll listen, as

1894
02:38:38,710 --> 02:38:42,710
I have in all these meetings, she's afraid to come to these meetings for

1895
02:38:43,830 --> 02:38:46,110
afraid that whatever.

1896
02:38:46,950 --> 02:38:48,350
You know, it's psychological.

1897
02:38:49,290 --> 02:38:50,570
Like the world's against you.

1898
02:38:50,910 --> 02:38:52,550
And I don't think that's true.

1899
02:38:53,210 --> 02:38:53,910
Thank you.

1900
02:38:54,490 --> 02:38:54,970
Thank you.

1901
02:38:56,390 --> 02:38:57,230
Thank you.

1902
02:38:57,370 --> 02:38:57,950
Craig is gone.

1903
02:38:59,210 --> 02:39:01,010
That is all who has signed up.

1904
02:39:01,150 --> 02:39:05,050
Is there anybody that is not on the sheet that would like to speak?

1905
02:39:05,050 --> 02:39:10,350
sort of start with the lady up here in the green and black shirt view with the ponytail

1906
02:39:11,330 --> 02:39:16,390
Please state your name if you're a resident and if you've been sworn in or not. I'm Christine Johnson

1907
02:39:16,390 --> 02:39:24,330
I am a resident. I live in abort courts. I am actually the homeowner's association vice president and I have not been sworn in

1908
02:39:26,070 --> 02:39:27,550
Please raise your right hand

1909
02:39:29,050 --> 02:39:34,670
Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the response is given in statements made in this hearing before the planning commission?

1910
02:39:34,670 --> 02:39:37,190
and will be the whole truth and nothing but the truth,

1911
02:39:37,310 --> 02:39:38,390
if so answer I do.

1912
02:39:38,670 --> 02:39:39,530
I do, thank you.

1913
02:39:39,930 --> 02:39:40,090
Hello.

1914
02:39:40,830 --> 02:39:43,270
OK, so I haven't, I was sick last morning,

1915
02:39:43,510 --> 02:39:44,250
so I couldn't come in.

1916
02:39:45,510 --> 02:39:47,990
Basically, first, I'm a single mom.

1917
02:39:49,430 --> 02:39:55,550
And it's very easy for people nowadays, most people

1918
02:39:55,550 --> 02:39:57,710
are divorced, or they don't stay married long.

1919
02:39:58,010 --> 02:39:59,330
And I mean, seriously, you can look it up.

1920
02:39:59,850 --> 02:40:04,250
But affording a house on my house,

1921
02:40:04,250 --> 02:40:10,910
I was I've been here four years only four years and I am hostage. I can't sell my house. I can't do

1922
02:40:10,910 --> 02:40:17,930
anything. I have to stay here because of this man because it's something that I have no control

1923
02:40:17,930 --> 02:40:21,090
over or didn't have any control over years ago.

1924
02:40:23,510 --> 02:40:27,990
Traffic. That's a huge issue for me. I've actually even

1925
02:40:27,990 --> 02:40:35,370
contacted the police station about how fast the truck drivers and people drive

1926
02:40:35,370 --> 02:40:39,090
through there and they can't even get down on my carol, down where NBR is where

1927
02:40:39,090 --> 02:40:44,410
I am. You can't get through. If a truck is coming through and they have all

1928
02:40:44,410 --> 02:40:49,330
of their construction stuff on there including, you know, to go down, one

1929
02:40:49,330 --> 02:40:54,210
car gets through. Even though that road is wide, they took out our mailbox and it

1930
02:40:54,210 --> 02:40:55,210
We took them, how many months?

1931
02:40:55,590 --> 02:40:58,450
Oh, it's just six months maybe, maybe even longer

1932
02:40:59,190 --> 02:40:59,910
to get it in.

1933
02:41:01,590 --> 02:41:03,170
It is ridiculous.

1934
02:41:03,830 --> 02:41:05,730
The amount of traffic we have on that already

1935
02:41:05,730 --> 02:41:06,990
because of the trucks.

1936
02:41:07,770 --> 02:41:10,290
There's got to be a different access point

1937
02:41:10,290 --> 02:41:12,310
if this is even to be considered.

1938
02:41:14,150 --> 02:41:17,310
You can't get down where are the people of the residents that

1939
02:41:17,310 --> 02:41:21,330
are in our townhouse is going to park down easy street

1940
02:41:21,330 --> 02:41:22,570
or Luther street.

1941
02:41:22,570 --> 02:41:26,970
There's room for one parking spot at our townhouses in our driveway.

1942
02:41:27,410 --> 02:41:32,530
If you are married or you do have people living with you, which a lot of us do, including

1943
02:41:32,530 --> 02:41:39,310
family or your kids, you know, my kids are 25 and 22 now, and you know, they have to

1944
02:41:39,310 --> 02:41:39,990
park on the street.

1945
02:41:40,290 --> 02:41:45,530
There's not enough parking for us alone for a four person family.

1946
02:41:46,090 --> 02:41:48,590
As your kids grow, you're going to have four cars.

1947
02:41:49,290 --> 02:41:50,290
Where are they going to park?

1948
02:41:51,570 --> 02:41:52,370
We're going to do it.

1949
02:41:52,790 --> 02:41:56,830
Are we going to, we can't widen it because we own that property.

1950
02:41:57,690 --> 02:42:01,730
You pull, I mean, unless you take out the sidewalks, which you can't do, you can't take

1951
02:42:01,730 --> 02:42:02,090
them out.

1952
02:42:05,030 --> 02:42:11,010
Secondly, I actually have contacted Maryland State about the traffic light here in town.

1953
02:42:11,410 --> 02:42:14,410
I don't know how many other people have, but I have been one of them.

1954
02:42:15,070 --> 02:42:18,090
They could not do anything about the traffic in the morning.

1955
02:42:18,090 --> 02:42:20,530
Okay, how many cars do we have down at that intersection?

1956
02:42:21,330 --> 02:42:28,930
It takes me 15 to 20 minutes to get out of town to get to 15, which is an exception.

1957
02:42:29,130 --> 02:42:34,610
The one down, the light over the square at the square, at the square.

1958
02:42:35,110 --> 02:42:39,770
So you have all these schools coming in, we barely, the truck drivers can't go down that

1959
02:42:39,770 --> 02:42:41,330
road as it is because they can't turn.

1960
02:42:41,950 --> 02:42:48,670
So you're going to add all this traffic to a, they won't, the state won't even change the lights.

1961
02:42:49,490 --> 02:42:55,630
They won't change. I was like, make it one direction, you know, out of time because people cannot turn.

1962
02:42:56,250 --> 02:42:59,670
You've got so many people going one way. People cannot turn another direction.

1963
02:43:00,190 --> 02:43:04,310
So you get stuck. I get stuck for like 15 minutes just to get to 15.

1964
02:43:04,910 --> 02:43:11,310
I don't want to have to go down all the way through town. I moved up here from Walker's Boat because I loved the area.

1965
02:43:12,590 --> 02:43:18,870
the one thing I hate is the traffic. I absolutely cannot stand it and that's why I

1966
02:43:18,870 --> 02:43:22,590
called. But they said that it would actually the timing of it or something it

1967
02:43:22,590 --> 02:43:27,470
would make it a lot worse, which to me I don't see how that's possible at this

1968
02:43:27,470 --> 02:43:31,930
point. But do you go adding a whole bunch of people to this town, you know, and then

1969
02:43:31,930 --> 02:43:37,610
the realtor that was here was just talking about modern growth. Okay, well what

1970
02:43:37,610 --> 02:43:41,110
about all these houses where people were not going to be in anymore because they're

1971
02:43:41,110 --> 02:43:45,210
leaving because they're old. They need to be renovated. We don't need modern

1972
02:43:45,210 --> 02:43:49,330
growth. We need to renovate the town. You guys are putting in what? How many

1973
02:43:49,330 --> 02:43:55,930
apartments are going on the square? Yeah, I mean, and not alone. That is

1974
02:43:55,930 --> 02:44:00,510
renovating. We need to make the town better. We need to renovate what's already

1975
02:44:00,510 --> 02:44:07,270
here and not add. My house is over $300,000 on a single income and mind you, I've

1976
02:44:07,270 --> 02:44:11,030
worked for the federal government in the National Cancer Institute. My

1977
02:44:11,030 --> 02:44:18,630
jobs on the line. How am I going to forward my house as one person? You know, it doesn't

1978
02:44:18,630 --> 02:44:26,310
make sense to me to put in something that is going to actually be more detrimental per

1979
02:44:26,310 --> 02:44:32,350
person, per this town. It might bring us money, but at the same time, you're going to lose

1980
02:44:32,350 --> 02:44:37,650
residents. As soon as this crap is over with, and we finally, hopefully, I mean, I can barely

1981
02:44:37,650 --> 02:44:44,610
afford what I have to pay my lawyer to get me out of this. I mean I'm paying two college bills

1982
02:44:44,610 --> 02:44:50,750
plus everything else. You've got people who, you know, are first-time home buyers in our association

1983
02:44:51,370 --> 02:44:59,830
who are struggling as it is. And that's on a $300,000 house with two incomes coming in. How are

1984
02:45:00,110 --> 02:45:29,210
We're going to put this many people in here and say, oh, it's growth. No, we need to fix what we already have. You go down the street, you see the houses, you see how they're, you know, they're not up kept as well as they could be. They're beautiful. Why not put that money towards something that is there? What are you going to do when this house is fall down? Is it going to be you go down the street? And we're going to just look at, you know, houses that are on the ground? I mean, it doesn't make sense to me. There was something else that I care.

1985
02:45:29,210 --> 02:45:38,310
I'm sorry but yeah I per me per whatever everything Alicia said you know we're

1986
02:45:38,310 --> 02:45:43,810
getting sued like four times you know I have the homeowners association that's

1987
02:45:43,810 --> 02:45:48,190
being sued that I have to put money out just for that I have to put money out

1988
02:45:48,190 --> 02:45:52,350
for me myself and I've only been here four years what are the heck am I being

1989
02:45:52,350 --> 02:45:56,690
held accountable for something I wasn't even I wasn't even alive probably but

1990
02:45:56,690 --> 02:46:06,290
this was built honestly I don't even know it's like to me and like Alicia said if we don't come

1991
02:46:06,290 --> 02:46:13,930
to some agreement or whatever come April 3rd we're stuck paying more to our lawyers we can lose

1992
02:46:13,930 --> 02:46:19,490
our houses our houses can be foreclosed because some of us might not have jobs our economy is screwed

1993
02:46:19,490 --> 02:46:26,750
right now this is not gonna help when people can't afford anything at the moment you go to the grocery

1994
02:46:26,750 --> 02:46:33,930
grocery store. You've got $200 worth of groceries. What you used to cost is a hundred. You know, I can't, I can't

1995
02:46:34,870 --> 02:46:45,010
reiterate enough that until this is over. And I mean, 2026 is a long ways away. That's over a year. It's like June. It's over a year and a

1996
02:46:45,010 --> 02:46:54,950
half away to have to keep paying our lawyer to deal with this company. Why? Why are we being held accountable and you guys are

1997
02:46:54,950 --> 02:46:59,370
being held accountable to and you're going to let this person come in and make

1998
02:46:59,370 --> 02:47:04,670
millions. Where's it going in your pockets because you guys have to put out

1999
02:47:04,670 --> 02:47:07,170
just as much as we do to fight him. Thank you.

2000
02:47:09,310 --> 02:47:09,790
Thank you.

2001
02:47:12,730 --> 02:47:15,850
Here's next sir. Please

2002
02:47:15,850 --> 02:47:18,850
state your name if you're a resident and if you've been sworn in or not.

2003
02:47:21,180 --> 02:47:21,620
Hello

2004
02:47:21,620 --> 02:47:29,700
Tyler Romero and resident of upper courts as well. I'm also not going to be

2005
02:47:31,580 --> 02:47:34,600
just to go on more information that we did not have last time.

2006
02:47:34,740 --> 02:47:35,700
Sorry, sorry, were you sworn in?

2007
02:47:35,880 --> 02:47:36,340
Sorry, yes.

2008
02:47:36,600 --> 02:47:37,620
Thank you.

2009
02:47:37,940 --> 02:47:41,160
More information than we had on January was mentioned

2010
02:47:41,160 --> 02:47:44,380
the medical services or the ambulances that we have available.

2011
02:47:45,120 --> 02:47:48,600
And so how they're really stressed out now already.

2012
02:47:49,320 --> 02:47:51,700
So I live because it numbers courts

2013
02:47:51,700 --> 02:47:52,960
and I have a direct view of Luther.

2014
02:47:53,640 --> 02:47:55,000
And I'm fortunate to work at home.

2015
02:47:55,840 --> 02:47:59,020
So I do see frequently ambulances go in

2016
02:47:59,020 --> 02:48:02,980
and out about the, like, over here, the, I guess,

2017
02:48:03,120 --> 02:48:06,880
elderly condominiums, and it's not in frequent.

2018
02:48:07,100 --> 02:48:10,220
It's probably, like, maybe once a week, maybe twice a week.

2019
02:48:10,680 --> 02:48:12,440
I mean, it's not, you know, emergencies where they're,

2020
02:48:12,620 --> 02:48:14,000
like, splaring, but they're picking up people

2021
02:48:14,000 --> 02:48:16,460
or moving people with the town's ambulances.

2022
02:48:17,000 --> 02:48:19,020
And so I can only imagine that's going to get, you know,

2023
02:48:19,360 --> 02:48:23,740
as more people that are involved with being

2024
02:48:23,740 --> 02:48:24,940
getting the ambulance services with, you know,

2025
02:48:25,040 --> 02:48:26,140
obviously way more houses.

2026
02:48:26,540 --> 02:48:28,160
But more importantly, with the assisted living,

2027
02:48:28,160 --> 02:48:32,680
It's going to be a lot of stress, not just like, you know, we talk about having, oh, there's

2028
02:48:32,680 --> 02:48:36,280
more communities being built around Thermont, you know, your average person doesn't need

2029
02:48:36,280 --> 02:48:36,920
the ambulance at all.

2030
02:48:37,180 --> 02:48:39,940
But as this is living, we'll need the ambulance quite often.

2031
02:48:40,400 --> 02:48:44,240
So I can only imagine that, you know, basically, I just wanted to make sure to reiterate that

2032
02:48:44,240 --> 02:48:49,220
they are very stressed, and it will be a lot more impact on our emergency services that, you

2033
02:48:49,220 --> 02:48:51,000
know, we already don't have the capacity for it.

2034
02:48:57,680 --> 02:48:58,080
Louise?

2035
02:49:07,400 --> 02:49:07,600
Okay.

2036
02:49:07,860 --> 02:49:08,860
So I'm Louise Schaefer.

2037
02:49:08,940 --> 02:49:10,540
I'm from Thermont, but I haven't been sworn in.

2038
02:49:10,540 --> 02:49:12,460
All right.

2039
02:49:12,940 --> 02:49:13,860
Raise your right hand.

2040
02:49:15,120 --> 02:49:22,320
Do you solemnly swear or firm that the response is given and statements made in the hearing before the planning commission will be the whole truth?

2041
02:49:22,740 --> 02:49:24,740
And nothing but the truth if so answer I do.

2042
02:49:25,700 --> 02:49:25,960
Thank you.

2043
02:49:26,880 --> 02:49:27,360
Okay.

2044
02:49:27,880 --> 02:49:32,320
I also am going to talk about the Easy Street and Luther Drive.

2045
02:49:32,320 --> 02:49:41,040
The density of the business traffic, employees, tractor trailers, delivery trucks, and

2046
02:49:41,040 --> 02:49:43,940
the single lane of traffic on Easy Street and Luther Drive.

2047
02:49:44,660 --> 02:49:50,820
Our community has traffic from 152 homes along with this commercial business traffic.

2048
02:49:51,400 --> 02:49:54,280
We don't need cohesiveness and connectivity.

2049
02:49:55,140 --> 02:49:58,560
We don't need interconnecting streets with another community.

2050
02:49:58,560 --> 02:50:02,320
and we don't want an emergency access gate only through drive.

2051
02:50:03,300 --> 02:50:08,680
These opening these streets is not essential to this development, so please understand

2052
02:50:09,140 --> 02:50:11,840
that we don't need more traffic in our community.

2053
02:50:14,190 --> 02:50:17,730
Also we currently have 116 homes in the pipeline.

2054
02:50:18,410 --> 02:50:25,210
This development would immediately add 100 homes, making a total of 216 new homes.

2055
02:50:26,270 --> 02:50:31,550
4 of the developments haven't broken ground, 3 of these developments are on the northern

2056
02:50:31,550 --> 02:50:35,270
side of town and may use some of the same roads as this development.

2057
02:50:36,330 --> 02:50:43,150
Luther Drive, Carroll Street, Woodside, Apple Search Road, and Euler Road are all the

2058
02:50:43,150 --> 02:50:47,170
streets and roads that support our courts and its new development.

2059
02:50:47,930 --> 02:50:53,870
This is a mixture of secondary roads, roads and streets that lack sidewalks and streets that

2060
02:50:53,870 --> 02:50:58,510
need major repairs such as carol street, which is our main artery into this community.

2061
02:51:00,920 --> 02:51:04,080
Emergency electric and water repairs are getting more frequent.

2062
02:51:04,680 --> 02:51:10,200
We have a major issue with PFAS in our water, and we are still in a drought situation that

2063
02:51:10,200 --> 02:51:11,220
may not get better.

2064
02:51:12,480 --> 02:51:17,640
A well that would serve this development has been taken offline because of PFAS contamination.

2065
02:51:19,040 --> 02:51:24,800
Planning is only, only looks at the development at one at a time and not the totality of

2066
02:51:24,800 --> 02:51:30,680
the developments. We have not had this amount of development in years so we truly don't know the

2067
02:51:30,680 --> 02:51:36,620
impact that this amount of growth will have on this community, our town, our services, and our

2068
02:51:36,620 --> 02:51:42,060
infrastructure. We are in uncharted times and now it's not the time for major growth,

2069
02:51:42,400 --> 02:51:44,900
let's take care of this town and the people who love it.

2070
02:51:50,000 --> 02:51:51,720
Planning and zoning checks off the basic

2071
02:51:51,720 --> 02:51:57,660
requirements for a development, but there are other boxes just as important. Our growth plan states

2072
02:51:57,660 --> 02:52:00,740
that the growth must look like it belongs in thermont.

2073
02:52:01,520 --> 02:52:03,400
It's supposed to support and advance

2074
02:52:03,400 --> 02:52:04,800
the character of the town.

2075
02:52:05,860 --> 02:52:07,500
And it's supposed to fit competitively

2076
02:52:07,500 --> 02:52:08,380
with its surroundings.

2077
02:52:09,100 --> 02:52:12,440
And provides a lasting benefit to the community,

2078
02:52:12,800 --> 02:52:15,720
including conservation of scenic views.

2079
02:52:16,740 --> 02:52:20,020
The growth plan also says that build out

2080
02:52:20,020 --> 02:52:22,920
of the growth area like the Simmer's annexation

2081
02:52:22,920 --> 02:52:25,720
would only occur in the distant future

2082
02:52:25,720 --> 02:52:29,640
beyond this master plan surrising of 2040.

2083
02:52:31,280 --> 02:52:32,720
We have a hundred homes.

2084
02:52:32,960 --> 02:52:37,480
A hundred homes is still an R5 dance community development.

2085
02:52:38,420 --> 02:52:42,300
This development would be three times the size of Hammaker Hills 1.

2086
02:52:43,760 --> 02:52:48,460
The majority of the Simmer's property is surrounded on two sides by rural land,

2087
02:52:48,860 --> 02:52:53,960
country roads, forest, Carol Street Park, and the historic apples church.

2088
02:52:53,960 --> 02:52:57,000
and another side has the modest one-story homes.

2089
02:52:58,060 --> 02:53:00,340
This large development of townhouses

2090
02:53:00,340 --> 02:53:03,260
is not compatible with the majority of this rounding area.

2091
02:53:04,040 --> 02:53:06,040
The residents of this town have already shown

2092
02:53:06,040 --> 02:53:08,960
that they care about what happens to this property.

2093
02:53:09,720 --> 02:53:11,320
This is not the time for growth

2094
02:53:11,720 --> 02:53:14,240
and I'm against the annexation and this development.

2095
02:53:14,660 --> 02:53:14,960
Thank you.

2096
02:53:16,280 --> 02:53:16,720
Thank you.

2097
02:53:19,710 --> 02:53:21,410
Is there anybody else that hasn't spoken

2098
02:53:21,410 --> 02:53:22,310
that would like to speak?

2099
02:53:26,450 --> 02:53:29,010
Ma'am, please state your name if you're a resident

2100
02:53:29,010 --> 02:53:30,190
and if you've been sworn in.

2101
02:53:42,950 --> 02:53:45,730
I'm Judy Miller, resident of Thurmond,

2102
02:53:46,110 --> 02:53:47,190
and I have been sworn in.

2103
02:53:47,650 --> 02:53:49,690
And I gave you all a whole speech last time,

2104
02:53:49,690 --> 02:53:50,590
so I won't go into it.

2105
02:53:52,170 --> 02:53:55,070
But I do not feel that the town of Thurmond

2106
02:53:55,070 --> 02:53:57,410
or you guys as planning and zoning

2107
02:53:57,410 --> 02:54:00,790
should be able to make a decision until after this court case.

2108
02:54:01,390 --> 02:54:04,270
This court case is holding us hostages.

2109
02:54:05,150 --> 02:54:09,010
He wants to talk about family communities, buildings.

2110
02:54:09,010 --> 02:54:16,730
He's holding families' hostages that they cannot take care of their elderly family members because we cannot sell our houses.

2111
02:54:17,690 --> 02:54:24,850
So until he decides that he's going to drop the case or the case goes before the courts, you all cannot make a decision.

2112
02:54:26,550 --> 02:54:31,510
And if that is January 13th of 2026, that's what it is.

2113
02:54:32,230 --> 02:54:32,970
Thank you.

2114
02:54:33,550 --> 02:54:34,330
Thank you.

2115
02:54:34,590 --> 02:54:35,010
Thank you.

2116
02:54:39,080 --> 02:54:44,900
Anybody else for public comment do you state your name if you're a resident if you're sworn in

2117
02:54:50,480 --> 02:54:53,980
James Miller. Yes, I've been sworn in. I am a resident

2118
02:54:55,020 --> 02:54:56,640
We owned a house over there for

2119
02:54:57,700 --> 02:55:02,280
15 years and the house is close enough for for us to be sued

2120
02:55:02,900 --> 02:55:06,680
But it's not close enough for us to get a letter saying about tonight

2121
02:55:08,340 --> 02:55:09,700
And that kind of crazy

2122
02:55:11,760 --> 02:55:18,060
So what I'm here, we are, my wife and I are 30 and 31, we're being sued separately, okay?

2123
02:55:18,180 --> 02:55:19,420
It's not like the conduits.

2124
02:55:19,680 --> 02:55:24,700
Yes, the conduits can sell because they're, he's suing the association, he's not

2125
02:55:24,700 --> 02:55:28,760
suing the individual person, he's suing my wife and I individually.

2126
02:55:29,420 --> 02:55:32,320
So we have to be representative two times.

2127
02:55:36,960 --> 02:55:39,240
The house was originally sold in September.

2128
02:55:39,240 --> 02:55:46,720
We talked to J. Day in April. The house had a five-month lease on it. It was supposed to be sold in September.

2129
02:55:47,700 --> 02:55:53,620
We were served in July. So we are stuck until this is straight down.

2130
02:55:54,540 --> 02:56:01,180
We can't solve the problem. I mean he's even saying that the pond is not moving.

2131
02:56:02,040 --> 02:56:04,900
And he don't say he's going to fix the pond with the development.

2132
02:56:04,900 --> 02:56:10,220
He said, possibility it could be worked into a solution, right?

2133
02:56:10,700 --> 02:56:12,120
So what he said, a solution.

2134
02:56:12,760 --> 02:56:14,120
He didn't say he's going to fix it.

2135
02:56:14,260 --> 02:56:14,900
I put him in.

2136
02:56:15,540 --> 02:56:16,420
And the ponds are not moving.

2137
02:56:16,800 --> 02:56:18,940
The ponds stay in and the same spot it is now.

2138
02:56:21,020 --> 02:56:21,800
I can't get it.

2139
02:56:21,860 --> 02:56:27,140
I can't prove this, but I was told, okay, that when the pond was put in,

2140
02:56:27,480 --> 02:56:31,480
there was a house built for Mrs. Simmons along that street.

2141
02:56:33,220 --> 02:56:34,180
That's why I was told.

2142
02:56:34,180 --> 02:56:37,160
If that's true or not, I don't know.

2143
02:56:38,000 --> 02:56:39,980
But that's what I was told years ago.

2144
02:56:43,190 --> 02:56:45,290
If you are going to prove something,

2145
02:56:46,670 --> 02:56:50,910
it needs to be there should not be a lawsuit tied into it.

2146
02:56:51,250 --> 02:56:52,070
That's all I'm saying.

2147
02:56:54,170 --> 02:56:57,230
We're being sued four times, our association,

2148
02:56:57,810 --> 02:57:01,330
the county, the state, and then my wife and I are individual.

2149
02:57:01,330 --> 02:57:08,290
So, you know, that's basically what I have to say.

2150
02:57:09,210 --> 02:57:09,490
Thank you.

2151
02:57:09,610 --> 02:57:09,850
Thank you.

2152
02:57:13,580 --> 02:57:15,140
Anybody else for public comment?

2153
02:57:20,610 --> 02:57:21,030
Last call.

2154
02:57:21,170 --> 02:57:22,550
Anybody for public comment?

2155
02:57:23,450 --> 02:57:24,650
On the summer's annexation.

2156
02:57:26,370 --> 02:57:28,210
Go ahead and close public comment.

2157
02:57:28,670 --> 02:57:29,230
Excuse me.

2158
02:57:29,850 --> 02:57:33,650
Do you want me to read the two that we received?

2159
02:57:34,790 --> 02:57:35,150
Yes.

2160
02:57:35,230 --> 02:57:35,430
Yes.

2161
02:57:36,150 --> 02:57:36,310
Okay.

2162
02:57:36,650 --> 02:57:37,630
They're not anonymous, right?

2163
02:57:37,630 --> 02:57:39,510
No, neither one is anonymous.

2164
02:57:42,220 --> 02:57:47,350
So we received earlier this week a letter to the Planning and Zoning Commission and I'm

2165
02:57:47,350 --> 02:57:48,010
going to read it.

2166
02:57:48,230 --> 02:57:58,050
It comes from 117 Easy Street, deer planning and zoning folks, RE cross and company application

2167
02:57:58,050 --> 02:58:00,530
for annexation of Simmer's property.

2168
02:58:01,170 --> 02:58:05,470
This is to express our opposition to the annexation of said property.

2169
02:58:05,470 --> 02:58:08,970
The reasons are many, but no need to state them here.

2170
02:58:09,370 --> 02:58:12,350
Respectfully submitted, Larry and Donna Ebby.

2171
02:58:19,980 --> 02:58:23,580
And then via email, receive the Planning and Zoning Commission,

2172
02:58:23,800 --> 02:58:26,440
receive this email.

2173
02:58:27,060 --> 02:58:28,740
Dear Planning and Zoning Commissioners,

2174
02:58:29,100 --> 02:58:32,560
the town has already voted down a proposed annexation

2175
02:58:32,560 --> 02:58:36,000
of the part of the Simmer's Farm that lies in Frederick County

2176
02:58:36,000 --> 02:58:39,900
and outside Thermal Town Limits by huge majority.

2177
02:58:39,900 --> 02:58:48,640
The bid of the Simmer's property in Thermont upgraded to R5 in 2022 master plan is itself

2178
02:58:48,640 --> 02:58:50,860
a travesty that should be reversed.

2179
02:58:51,760 --> 02:58:56,080
It was incorporated during COVID against the wishes of the residents it affects.

2180
02:58:57,260 --> 02:59:02,680
Under the present system, the master plan designations are Sankersinked.

2181
02:59:02,680 --> 02:59:12,580
They get included into revised plans after supposed public input, but the public that counts

2182
02:59:12,580 --> 02:59:14,640
never suggests these changes.

2183
02:59:15,240 --> 02:59:20,160
Apparently, the developers have the ear of the county planner assigned to Thermont or

2184
02:59:20,160 --> 02:59:25,900
someone else in the town with an agenda that is out of sync with the desires of the residents,

2185
02:59:26,180 --> 02:59:31,160
but is able to get the desired zoning designation inserted in the master plan.

2186
02:59:31,160 --> 02:59:37,660
The master plan needs real input from effective residents so that we can stop this endless loop

2187
02:59:37,660 --> 02:59:46,780
of developer proposals being rammed through despite almost universal resident opposition.

2188
02:59:47,440 --> 02:59:55,060
He references Mechanics Town LLC development on MSburg Road for a prior case of this nature.

2189
02:59:55,060 --> 02:59:59,900
We would hope that after the previous vote on the Simmers annexation

2190
03:00:00,000 --> 03:00:06,140
motion, the planning and zoning board would be 100% on the resident side. Thomas Cromwell.

2191
03:00:13,170 --> 03:00:17,290
And I wrote their written comments on the sign and she just as a point of reference. Okay.

2192
03:00:21,130 --> 03:00:26,590
Okay. So public comment is closed. So we were talking with the applicant. I would invite him back to the podium.

2193
03:00:29,650 --> 03:00:30,190
Let

2194
03:00:36,110 --> 03:00:40,210
me just say,

2195
03:00:44,270 --> 03:00:49,550
I need a Pepsi and we'll get onto that file soon, uh-huh.

2196
03:00:50,390 --> 03:00:53,350
Okay, so, okay,

2197
03:01:00,870 --> 03:01:05,350
what would it be, our intern around, so you don't have to walk behind.

2198
03:01:44,090 --> 03:02:01,170
I'm chairman. Thank you for the change in the order. I am my team. Find it valuable to hear this. Some of it. It's a little rough, but it's valuable for us to hear it. I think I'd like to try to explain a little bit history here for a moment.

2199
03:02:01,170 --> 03:02:06,810
So, with your permission, I'm going to work my way through this slide deck somewhat quickly.

2200
03:02:07,190 --> 03:02:08,870
It'll be in the public record.

2201
03:02:09,310 --> 03:02:12,170
We're also happy to go over it with anybody.

2202
03:02:13,310 --> 03:02:18,750
This brief was given, and I'm also going to try to respect the request we heard earlier,

2203
03:02:19,110 --> 03:02:20,950
and I'm going to brief off of that screen.

2204
03:02:22,230 --> 03:02:22,410
Okay.

2205
03:02:22,530 --> 03:02:27,570
This brief was given in August of 2023, next slide.

2206
03:02:27,570 --> 03:02:35,310
It was given to these people, so it's already on the public record with the Albert Court

2207
03:02:35,310 --> 03:02:40,650
Condominium Association, Gateway Enterprise arrived, Town of Thermite was present.

2208
03:02:41,850 --> 03:02:44,630
Lastly, I'm not here to litigate our issues this evening.

2209
03:02:44,710 --> 03:02:47,630
I'm just trying to provide the background material for everybody.

2210
03:02:48,670 --> 03:02:49,430
Next slide.

2211
03:02:50,650 --> 03:02:56,250
When we did the briefing, we asked the participants to identify their tax map parcels, so we knew

2212
03:02:56,250 --> 03:03:02,690
who we were speaking to. Next slide. These were our goals coming out of that meeting.

2213
03:03:03,390 --> 03:03:10,410
We had already issued the notice terminating the easements on Mrs. Simmer's property

2214
03:03:10,410 --> 03:03:14,710
and we were explaining that and we were doing what we're doing right now, which is the

2215
03:03:14,710 --> 03:03:20,890
history of the Albert's Court's development. We raised the question of the MS-4 permits.

2216
03:03:20,890 --> 03:03:23,930
we don't need to do that this evening. Next slide please.

2217
03:03:26,500 --> 03:03:27,260
John already covered

2218
03:03:27,260 --> 03:03:36,540
ESD to the MEP. The Albert Courts neighborhood is approximately 9.34 acres that

2219
03:03:37,320 --> 03:03:42,440
not all of it's impervious but none of it is treated and that's the argument.

2220
03:03:43,540 --> 03:03:52,040
Next slide. Okay, so that's a 1988 aerial image before anything happened. The

2221
03:03:52,040 --> 03:03:57,840
The NVR facility is still here, North Carol Streets Inn, look down Apple's Church Road,

2222
03:03:58,180 --> 03:04:01,680
some of the houses are there, Pleasant Acres is not built yet.

2223
03:04:02,400 --> 03:04:05,900
None of what you know today is Albert Courts was there.

2224
03:04:06,800 --> 03:04:07,400
Next slide.

2225
03:04:08,320 --> 03:04:13,580
That's the same, or, excuse me, roughly the same image today, so you can understand the

2226
03:04:13,580 --> 03:04:16,500
change that has happened between those two images.

2227
03:04:17,140 --> 03:04:20,340
This was a 2015 image date, so it's ten years old.

2228
03:04:20,340 --> 03:04:28,000
Next slide. This was done by John's firm a couple years ago with professional

2229
03:04:28,000 --> 03:04:33,360
surveyors to actually stake out the property line, stake out where everything

2230
03:04:33,360 --> 03:04:40,480
is on our side, and where the easement area is. Next slide. Here's the other

2231
03:04:40,480 --> 03:04:48,940
call out. So the temporary stormwater management facility, as built, is outside

2232
03:04:48,940 --> 03:04:56,240
side of the easement area. It's not all inside of where it's supposed to be. Next slide.

2233
03:04:57,440 --> 03:05:02,920
That's the topography. Notice the steepness of the hill. Those of you that live in Albert

2234
03:05:02,920 --> 03:05:09,020
Court Section 5, you know the steepness of the hill going down to Mrs. Simmer's property,

2235
03:05:09,540 --> 03:05:16,960
the same on the far side of Cody Drive. Next slide. An observation. Go back one slide for

2236
03:05:16,960 --> 03:05:25,800
me. I'll go back to slides for me. My discussion this evening and what is the point of

2237
03:05:25,800 --> 03:05:31,940
contention is the easement area that's on Mrs. Simmer's property. But there is a second

2238
03:05:31,940 --> 03:05:39,940
easement area on what is still owned by Gateway. Okay, so next slide. Let's catch up next.

2239
03:05:39,940 --> 03:05:47,460
anything that dumps from these Albert courts going condos, going towards

2240
03:05:47,460 --> 03:05:52,440
Cody, including that which comes off of the town property around your water

2241
03:05:52,440 --> 03:06:00,020
treatment plant gets to hear the slope then takes it to us. So any storm

2242
03:06:00,020 --> 03:06:08,820
water from this area still moves easterly to the other facility. Next slide, that's

2243
03:06:08,820 --> 03:06:10,680
another zoom in, next slide.

2244
03:06:12,040 --> 03:06:14,260
All right, this is out of date.

2245
03:06:14,460 --> 03:06:17,640
John, we've revised this since this brief was given in 2023.

2246
03:06:18,640 --> 03:06:20,840
This was what we thought at the time

2247
03:06:20,840 --> 03:06:26,280
was the drainage area on to Mrs. Simmers.

2248
03:06:26,660 --> 03:06:28,300
I've got another slide that covers it.

2249
03:06:28,580 --> 03:06:29,140
Next slide.

2250
03:06:30,700 --> 03:06:34,980
OK, we're going to go through some time sequence here.

2251
03:06:34,980 --> 03:06:43,680
1991. Notice this document is signed by soil conservation service. It had not the record

2252
03:06:43,680 --> 03:06:49,280
copy we got hadn't gotten signed by the other departments. Next slide. This is

2253
03:06:49,280 --> 03:06:57,340
Sprangler Court, the first townhouses that went up. The call out here is the storm drain lines.

2254
03:06:58,260 --> 03:07:04,320
It starts on the south side of Carroll. So it's actually picking up storm water presumably

2255
03:07:04,320 --> 03:07:10,380
out of the Ryan development or maybe just the drainage ditch along Carroll.

2256
03:07:11,000 --> 03:07:16,260
It's crossing, it's picking up the other side and in that era, it took it

2257
03:07:16,260 --> 03:07:21,520
northeredly and it just dumped it because nothing else was developed north

2258
03:07:21,520 --> 03:07:22,760
of Sprangler Court.

2259
03:07:24,670 --> 03:07:25,650
Excuse me.

2260
03:07:25,950 --> 03:07:26,690
Point of order.

2261
03:07:27,150 --> 03:07:29,530
There is no public comment from the floor at this time.

2262
03:07:30,410 --> 03:07:30,990
Thank you, ma'am.

2263
03:07:31,470 --> 03:07:31,890
Next slide.

2264
03:07:32,690 --> 03:07:38,530
Okay. And again, some of the documents seemed to indicate that a silk pond went at that

2265
03:07:38,530 --> 03:07:47,670
dump location in 91. Next slide. Again, commenting on how much comes from the town in pervious

2266
03:07:47,670 --> 03:07:57,630
surface of their public roads. Next slide. I'm sorry. I'll record section two. This is only in here.

2267
03:07:57,770 --> 03:08:04,650
Sorry. Sorry. Can we go back to the spangler? Sure. I missed that part. Can you go back? Let's back up.

2268
03:08:05,190 --> 03:08:13,790
Back up all the way back to the spang. Which one? You were talking about the the culvert and the pick up from

2269
03:08:13,790 --> 03:08:23,510
Okay, so that's shown in greater detail on the next two slides. This is the over view showing the whole thing. Let's go one slide forward for me.

2270
03:08:24,870 --> 03:08:38,190
Okay, the same thing. Here's that pickup from the south side of Carol crossing. It's also got to pick up from the other side of Luther. It's coming this way and it's draining northward.

2271
03:08:39,350 --> 03:08:51,320
Next slide. Same image again with those drains. 15-inch storm drain running

2272
03:08:51,320 --> 03:08:58,620
underneath Luther from the South Side of Cure. Next slide. Okay. This is in the

2273
03:08:58,620 --> 03:09:04,360
brief only to provide continuity of the sections. Section two, but this one's

2274
03:09:04,360 --> 03:09:09,280
all the way over by the back entrance to Ryan. It's not part of the drainage to

2275
03:09:09,280 --> 03:09:17,560
the summer's parcel. So it's not pertinent to this discussion. Next slide. Okay. 1992, and now it's

2276
03:09:17,560 --> 03:09:23,420
time for construction of the first two of what we know is the Albert courts condominium buildings,

2277
03:09:23,760 --> 03:09:32,680
the western two buildings. Call out for signatures, Frederick County Public Works in 93, the town in March

2278
03:09:32,680 --> 03:09:34,680
of 93. Next slide.

2279
03:09:37,910 --> 03:09:43,150
93. This is where they're going to go. That land still owns by Gateway.

2280
03:09:43,650 --> 03:09:44,190
Next slide.

2281
03:09:48,470 --> 03:09:55,630
Two 12 unit condominium buildings and it ties to the easement. You're dumping water

2282
03:09:55,630 --> 03:10:01,350
here at the end of Cody and you're dumping water onto the Simmers parcel. Next slide.

2283
03:10:06,220 --> 03:10:06,960
That's the

2284
03:10:06,960 --> 03:10:12,260
condition of those two drains when this image was taken probably back in

2285
03:10:12,260 --> 03:10:22,460
2018. Next slide. Okay. This is what I wanted to make sure people saw tonight. This

2286
03:10:22,460 --> 03:10:32,440
is not a recorded document but it was found in the records. This is a 1992 print

2287
03:10:32,440 --> 03:10:40,340
date, and the handwriting on it, I think I've got it zoomed in, is a 1996 note ad storm

2288
03:10:40,340 --> 03:10:48,320
water area all the way at the bottom, in handwriting, storm water here. Two things to call

2289
03:10:48,320 --> 03:10:54,480
out as you look at this. Albrecht Court Section 5, the three condo buildings, aren't on this

2290
03:10:54,480 --> 03:11:01,400
plan. Under the original thinking, Easy Street was going to turn, have a bunch of duplex units

2291
03:11:01,400 --> 03:11:08,040
and connect to Luther. When this was written in 92, next slide.

2292
03:11:10,430 --> 03:11:13,130
Okay, thing to point out,

2293
03:11:13,350 --> 03:11:18,490
if you go to the pre, go back one for me, Kelly, sorry, please note the civil engineer.

2294
03:11:19,010 --> 03:11:24,950
This is Harris, Amigo, associates, working for Mr. Clayball. Go to the next slide.

2295
03:11:24,950 --> 03:11:33,230
You got a changing engineer, now your Fox and Associates, before John Stein, who was

2296
03:11:33,230 --> 03:11:39,570
brought in to do section 4, and Mr. Clayball didn't do section 4, a different developer

2297
03:11:39,570 --> 03:11:39,910
did.

2298
03:11:40,570 --> 03:11:41,330
Next slide,

2299
03:11:43,380 --> 03:11:49,500
and they put in that developer, under guidance from Fox, put in their own

2300
03:11:49,500 --> 03:11:58,200
stormwater management pond that drains those townhouses does not drain Albert

2301
03:11:58,200 --> 03:12:04,760
Court's two condo buildings, approvals by all the county and state the county

2302
03:12:04,760 --> 03:12:12,200
and town governments. Next slide. Okay now we're on to Albert Court section 5, the

2303
03:12:12,200 --> 03:12:21,100
three condominium buildings that are to the east. And date time, these signatures are

2304
03:12:21,100 --> 03:12:27,980
in the summer of 96. Next slide. There are the three of them. The storm drain that

2305
03:12:27,980 --> 03:12:34,080
was previously coming out of Sprangler and just dumping is now connected. It goes on down

2306
03:12:34,080 --> 03:12:42,480
Luther and goes into something on Mrs. Simmer's parcel. I want to call out, you can't read

2307
03:12:42,480 --> 03:12:51,040
it at this scale, but see the note at the very top. Go to the next slide, please. This

2308
03:12:51,040 --> 03:12:57,020
shows, again, the stormwater coming into not only the Eastman area, but outside the Eastman

2309
03:12:57,020 --> 03:13:03,720
area, next slide. And let's go to the note. We're signed off by Frederick

2310
03:13:03,720 --> 03:13:13,620
County in July 96 were signed off for stormwater in July 96. The note says the temporary SWM facility

2311
03:13:13,620 --> 03:13:20,880
will be maintained by gateway enterprises until the site is stabilized and 90% of the units have

2312
03:13:20,880 --> 03:13:33,700
been sold. At that time the homeowners association will assume the maintenance responsibility of the

2313
03:13:33,700 --> 03:13:34,780
All

2314
03:13:40,350 --> 03:13:47,710
right. So, earlier we saw a 1992 possible concept plan for the development of a whole parcel.

2315
03:14:02,040 --> 03:14:11,100
This is a later concept plan. Notice the three condominium buildings in Section 5 are built.

2316
03:14:11,800 --> 03:14:19,120
Notice Luther Drive continues all the way down and connects at what at the time was still called

2317
03:14:19,120 --> 03:14:26,720
Grayson. Notice that Easy Street didn't connect, because they did a series of singles,

2318
03:14:27,340 --> 03:14:36,680
towns, singles on Apple's Church and a mixture in here. Again, not a recorded document never

2319
03:14:36,680 --> 03:14:43,120
actually agreed to, but showed the concept plan. This is the big call out. Temporary Storm

2320
03:14:43,120 --> 03:14:49,280
motor management for Section 5 here, permanent stormwater at the bottom of the hill.

2321
03:14:50,060 --> 03:14:57,540
Next slide, temporary, permanent at the bottom of the hill, the HOA has the responsibility

2322
03:14:57,540 --> 03:14:59,240
for the maintenance of the temporary.

2323
03:15:00,000 --> 03:15:29,820
Next slide. This one's also out of date. You can skip it. And you can skip that one. Okay, so folks, this is why we're in the mess we're in. The original developer didn't do storm order for their section. And it's on Mrs. Simmer's parcel, and we need to have it removed. Your anger is at me, very respectfully. Your anger needs to be at the sovereigns who sign the thing off.

2324
03:15:29,820 --> 03:15:36,400
many years ago. We will find a solution. Water has to flow downhill, but we've got to clear

2325
03:15:36,400 --> 03:15:41,920
the title and make it possible for Mrs. Simmers to sell her property, for you guys to have

2326
03:15:41,920 --> 03:15:47,440
permanent storm water, and for the partially developed in accordance with the growth plans

2327
03:15:47,440 --> 03:15:57,020
of the town that go back certainly the 2008 comp plan, not a mayor, Chairman, and probably,

2328
03:15:57,020 --> 03:15:58,760
Yeah, you got promoted. Sorry about that, John.

2329
03:16:01,280 --> 03:16:07,400
And I suspect, based off of all these documents, it's been in the growth area since the early

2330
03:16:07,400 --> 03:16:10,080
90s when the whole neighborhood was being planted.

2331
03:16:11,680 --> 03:16:16,620
I wouldn't ask a question about the farmland itself, because that was one of my questions

2332
03:16:16,620 --> 03:16:17,080
from earlier.

2333
03:16:18,540 --> 03:16:24,360
Was there something wrong with the soil, with the farmland that made it not usable or

2334
03:16:24,360 --> 03:16:28,720
There was just a discussion that just for strictly growth that this is where the town

2335
03:16:28,720 --> 03:16:33,500
decided that they wanted to go or was there like an actual issue with the farmland itself?

2336
03:16:35,260 --> 03:16:41,100
Does that mean that's important to not aware of any issues with the farmland, with crops?

2337
03:16:41,940 --> 03:16:42,600
There's no way.

2338
03:16:42,600 --> 03:16:48,020
The commentary I would make is this parcel of those still zoned agricultural in the county

2339
03:16:48,020 --> 03:16:53,840
is not in the county planning documents as an agricultural area that needs to be kept.

2340
03:16:54,720 --> 03:16:58,620
If you look at the Thurma, if you look at the county chart, it's not there.

2341
03:16:59,280 --> 03:17:05,100
Mrs. Simmers is not able to make money farming that ground, so it's gone to follow.

2342
03:17:05,460 --> 03:17:06,800
But you could sell it to a farmer.

2343
03:17:10,760 --> 03:17:19,500
Yeah, sometimes there's like, I'm sure you're following the NPR discussion with putting things that don't have any other use on the land.

2344
03:17:19,500 --> 03:17:22,580
because it's not feasible to use it for the designated use.

2345
03:17:23,240 --> 03:17:25,420
That's a historical question to figure out.

2346
03:17:26,100 --> 03:17:28,840
Was the soil bad or that was just, it was a growth,

2347
03:17:29,180 --> 03:17:30,500
we were planning on moving here.

2348
03:17:31,120 --> 03:17:34,480
I got to come back to you, the municipality,

2349
03:17:35,100 --> 03:17:37,960
have designated it as being in your growth area,

2350
03:17:38,500 --> 03:17:40,980
since at least your 2008 comp plan,

2351
03:17:41,240 --> 03:17:43,660
and I strongly suspect since your mid 90s.

2352
03:17:44,420 --> 03:17:47,120
So I'm simply following the written guidance

2353
03:17:47,120 --> 03:17:51,940
that you've been telling the county and the Maryland Office of Planning for

2354
03:17:51,940 --> 03:17:55,640
25 years or more. This is what you want to done with the ground.

2355
03:17:55,960 --> 03:17:56,200
Can

2356
03:18:04,270 --> 03:18:09,930
we talk about the assisted living facility and what that might look like?

2357
03:18:10,330 --> 03:18:17,970
Are you are you planning on leasing that or are you going to sell that out right when

2358
03:18:17,970 --> 03:18:24,050
this gets done? So when we saw each other at the Maryland Office of Planning

2359
03:18:24,050 --> 03:18:31,750
planning, slash Maryland planners association meeting at Ellicott City. I then shared with

2360
03:18:31,750 --> 03:18:38,010
all of you via Kelly, a copy of the Health Dimensions group at a Minneapolis, Minnesota's

2361
03:18:38,010 --> 03:18:45,570
senior living study for the overall thermon area. I'm also reacting to the Thermon Economic

2362
03:18:45,570 --> 03:18:50,970
Development Director's survey, now getting some long teeth on it, that said there was

2363
03:18:50,970 --> 03:19:00,190
a demand for assisted living in thermo. I'm a real estate developer. I'm a broker. I'm not an

2364
03:19:00,190 --> 03:19:06,730
operator of senior living facility. We will go to companies like HDG or other competitive

2365
03:19:07,730 --> 03:19:13,230
regionally based operators who do this for their living and they will either lease the facility

2366
03:19:13,230 --> 03:19:19,070
from us or ground lease it from us once it's built. But no, crossing companies not can operate it. That's

2367
03:19:19,070 --> 03:19:19,810
It's not what I deal.

2368
03:19:21,710 --> 03:19:23,830
I was just making sure the plan hasn't changed on that one,

2369
03:19:23,930 --> 03:19:25,830
because I know that was a big question.

2370
03:19:25,950 --> 03:19:26,710
I'm sorry, couldn't hear you.

2371
03:19:27,250 --> 03:19:28,750
I was making sure that I was still the plan.

2372
03:19:29,610 --> 03:19:29,770
Yeah.

2373
03:19:30,890 --> 03:19:32,910
We're working on the architectural side.

2374
03:19:33,070 --> 03:19:35,810
We work with Nolkren Hall Architects out of Chambersburg.

2375
03:19:35,970 --> 03:19:37,870
They are specialists in senior living.

2376
03:19:38,490 --> 03:19:40,010
And to your question earlier on the fire,

2377
03:19:40,250 --> 03:19:42,650
remember, all of these buildings are every resonance

2378
03:19:42,650 --> 03:19:45,250
in Maryland today has to be sprinklered,

2379
03:19:45,430 --> 03:19:47,410
but a senior living facility gets sprinklered

2380
03:19:47,410 --> 03:19:48,530
to an incredible extent.

2381
03:19:50,170 --> 03:19:54,870
But no, what I will seek to do is identify an operator.

2382
03:19:55,050 --> 03:19:57,370
We will work with that operator on building design.

2383
03:19:57,650 --> 03:19:59,710
We've already done sun comp set designs,

2384
03:20:00,790 --> 03:20:03,670
and we would ultimately engage in a lease with them.

2385
03:20:09,390 --> 03:20:10,590
Questions for the applicant?

2386
03:20:13,190 --> 03:20:14,010
Have you got anything else?

2387
03:20:14,670 --> 03:20:14,870
No.

2388
03:20:15,290 --> 03:20:16,110
Actually, I have to move.

2389
03:20:17,070 --> 03:20:18,910
Does anybody have a follow-up question to staff?

2390
03:20:21,840 --> 03:20:24,080
Point of clarity, I've wrote down about the well.

2391
03:20:25,200 --> 03:20:29,060
that's going to be utilized for the subdivision,

2392
03:20:29,260 --> 03:20:32,580
is that currently offline due to PFAS?

2393
03:20:32,960 --> 03:20:37,020
Yes, we do have one of our wells that are offline due to PFAS.

2394
03:20:37,520 --> 03:20:41,020
And for this, would that be applicable to this development?

2395
03:20:42,080 --> 03:20:44,960
I'd have to defer to the Water Department.

2396
03:20:46,400 --> 03:20:47,180
Sure, that's not.

2397
03:20:47,940 --> 03:20:49,700
Well, you've offline, well, seven of you have to be sure.

2398
03:20:49,840 --> 03:20:51,640
Okay, well, Jim is saying no.

2399
03:20:51,640 --> 03:20:55,700
So, well eight is offline and well seven would be servicing this development.

2400
03:20:58,300 --> 03:20:58,820
All

2401
03:21:08,060 --> 03:21:08,580
right.

2402
03:21:08,720 --> 03:21:09,060
Thank you.

2403
03:21:09,460 --> 03:21:10,560
Thank you, Madam Chairman.

2404
03:21:11,000 --> 03:21:11,360
Madam Mayor.

2405
03:21:13,020 --> 03:21:13,540
I

2406
03:21:20,200 --> 03:21:21,420
might have a question for legal.

2407
03:21:24,180 --> 03:21:30,700
Just relaying a public comment to legal, is it possible for us to proceed with this annexation

2408
03:21:30,700 --> 03:21:33,060
application while pending lawsuit is happening?

2409
03:21:33,840 --> 03:21:35,460
That was a question that was proposed by the public.

2410
03:21:35,460 --> 03:21:42,880
the answer to that question is yes it is and I think it's important to clarify

2411
03:21:42,880 --> 03:21:50,580
that what you're tasked with doing is addressing the points in the code

2412
03:21:50,580 --> 03:21:59,540
that is what your job is it's not anything else and that

2413
03:22:01,650 --> 03:22:02,870
that is the focus

2414
03:22:02,870 --> 03:22:05,730
of what this commission does.

2415
03:22:07,910 --> 03:22:09,570
Yeah, my follow-up to that was,

2416
03:22:10,150 --> 03:22:14,890
do we have any legal path to deny anything

2417
03:22:14,890 --> 03:22:17,210
in this commission if they meet the criteria?

2418
03:22:18,270 --> 03:22:21,290
OK, so what your job here is with respect

2419
03:22:21,290 --> 03:22:23,730
to the annexation plan is not an approval.

2420
03:22:24,790 --> 03:22:28,590
What this is is a review of the plan that's been submitted

2421
03:22:28,590 --> 03:22:29,410
to you.

2422
03:22:30,050 --> 03:22:32,150
That is all that this is.

2423
03:22:32,150 --> 03:22:40,010
that review gets submitted to the Board of Commissioners and it is the Board of

2424
03:22:40,010 --> 03:22:48,310
Commissioners homework that reviews and passes on the proposed annexation.

2425
03:22:48,910 --> 03:22:54,870
The purpose of this exercise is to determine if it needs the criteria set

2426
03:22:54,870 --> 03:23:03,690
fourth in your code. It's not a for vote, it's not a naivot. It is just simply your observations

2427
03:23:03,690 --> 03:23:06,390
that are being presented to the Board of Commissioners.

2428
03:23:06,790 --> 03:23:07,790
Thank you for that clarification.

2429
03:23:08,310 --> 03:23:08,470
Sure.

2430
03:23:11,700 --> 03:23:21,560
And for the traffic study and recommendations for a pre-annexation agreement, that is just

2431
03:23:21,560 --> 03:23:37,560
included in the resolution itself. That's nothing. That's which resolution are you talking about the resolution that we would be making if it if it does me the criteria or if it doesn't because it says you know whether the annexation should be approved or denied and what if any conditions.

2432
03:23:38,320 --> 03:23:47,860
The planning commission believes the mayor and commissioners to place all the approval on the annexation to ensure that it conforms the recommendations of the comprehensive plan.

2433
03:23:47,860 --> 03:23:55,580
Okay, so we have to be careful about terminology, and I know that people get irritated with

2434
03:23:55,580 --> 03:23:59,400
lawyers for being sort of dancing on the head of a pen, and I get that.

2435
03:23:59,900 --> 03:24:02,280
But you're not passing a resolution.

2436
03:24:03,040 --> 03:24:04,660
That is not what you're doing.

2437
03:24:05,120 --> 03:24:11,400
What you're doing is a review of the application to determine whether or not, in your opinion,

2438
03:24:11,960 --> 03:24:14,360
it meets the criteria set forth in the code.

2439
03:24:14,360 --> 03:24:20,860
It is only the Board of Commissioners that can make the resolution, and as part of that

2440
03:24:20,860 --> 03:24:27,520
program, it's not just the annexation plan that's being submitted, but another important

2441
03:24:27,520 --> 03:24:30,640
component is an annexation agreement.

2442
03:24:31,060 --> 03:24:38,580
And in the annexation agreement, that is where certain concessions are offered, if you will,

2443
03:24:38,720 --> 03:24:41,820
by a proponent, someone who's seeking an annexation.

2444
03:24:41,820 --> 03:24:57,760
So, for example, if you say, well, you know, if this is going to proceed, it would be a really good idea for you to, you know, look at the parks over here and improvements to adjacent parks or something like that.

2445
03:24:57,900 --> 03:25:04,020
That's certainly something that can be within the scope of your recommendation and that would become part of an agreement.

2446
03:25:04,020 --> 03:25:06,220
month. Okay.

2447
03:25:09,060 --> 03:25:15,560
If it were adopted by the board commissioners. Right. Just to be abundantly clear.

2448
03:25:15,920 --> 03:25:21,040
I think that's very important to note that we we are an apolitical body. We are volunteers.

2449
03:25:21,060 --> 03:25:27,500
We are we are actually not paid. We have a stipend of $25 for full transparency per meeting

2450
03:25:27,500 --> 03:25:41,940
that we attend, not about $450,000, so we don't, as Leslie was saying, we are completely

2451
03:25:41,940 --> 03:25:48,060
separate from whatever we have. There's three components of the requirements in the

2452
03:25:48,060 --> 03:25:55,240
zoning code. That's it. It's nothing more than that. I do, Kelly, you wrote it in your

2453
03:25:55,240 --> 03:26:01,200
sacriport about the discrepancy, the wording of the master plan with the R5 density.

2454
03:26:02,340 --> 03:26:07,020
So that's an issue for me, because it's not crystal clear.

2455
03:26:08,080 --> 03:26:17,500
And for the sake of clarity for us, how do we, we can do up to the 10 per acre, right?

2456
03:26:17,680 --> 03:26:22,920
That's what the actual R5 is, but the way that it's written kind of contradicts that in

2457
03:26:22,920 --> 03:26:23,640
the master plan.

2458
03:26:23,640 --> 03:26:31,440
So it's creating some confusion and I don't know legally how the best way to make sure that we are

2459
03:26:32,160 --> 03:26:40,300
I don't know we were protected, but doing our due diligence when we're we're reading something and and it doesn't say the same as what this says over here

2460
03:26:41,320 --> 03:26:44,060
Well, I'll make a comment to that. I know with reading the

2461
03:26:44,880 --> 03:26:52,600
Master Plan it's it's in there as suggestions and guidance and that the R5 is the suggested

2462
03:26:53,640 --> 03:26:58,600
density for the annexation. So not necessarily the controlling density.

2463
03:26:59,420 --> 03:27:04,380
Right, and that's something we touched on of what that, if the annexation does occur,

2464
03:27:04,660 --> 03:27:08,360
what the density would be for that parcel of land.

2465
03:27:08,800 --> 03:27:14,900
The way your code has been read is up to. That's the way the code has been read.

2466
03:27:22,030 --> 03:27:26,710
All right. I don't think we're going to be making any decisions tonight.

2467
03:27:26,710 --> 03:27:36,410
I mean, I think we were just trying to interface and understand the project more, but I mean I did a full transparency.

2468
03:27:36,650 --> 03:27:47,810
I did send an email to staff today because some of the feedback that I did here was that some people told me that they could not speak because of the pending litigation.

2469
03:27:47,810 --> 03:27:57,230
They were they were counseled to not come and speak. So I feel like that's counterproductive to the discussion for not hearing from people that can't come here and speak.

2470
03:27:57,990 --> 03:28:09,430
So there is some merit to some of the comments made it's, you know, I know at the end of the day if it meets these three criteria, then, then so be it.

2471
03:28:09,430 --> 03:28:20,150
But for one of our goals is supposed to be community outreach and transparency and we don't have that if we can't have the full participation from people that can't be here.

2472
03:28:20,570 --> 03:28:23,190
So I just wanted to point that out.

2473
03:28:24,050 --> 03:28:33,310
Yeah, I don't know to what extent anybody has received such legal advice is obviously not our purview to invade attorney client privilege.

2474
03:28:33,310 --> 03:28:42,690
And I think that if somebody, I mean, if somebody stood up and said, I can't talk about

2475
03:28:42,690 --> 03:28:50,270
this because it's imprudent to do so, then you have somebody saying that to you directly.

2476
03:28:52,010 --> 03:28:53,150
But that didn't happen.

2477
03:28:54,590 --> 03:28:58,270
So you know, it's, I understand what you're saying.

2478
03:28:58,270 --> 03:29:04,230
It makes perfect sense that you want to have a full and fair discussion of the issues involved

2479
03:29:05,150 --> 03:29:11,350
and I know that this is caused an incredible amount of turmoil and disruption and hardship

2480
03:29:11,350 --> 03:29:15,070
to the citizens of, you know, and the residents of this area.

2481
03:29:15,450 --> 03:29:17,930
And so I get it.

2482
03:29:19,110 --> 03:29:25,670
But again, this is in your discretion as to how it affects your formulation.

2483
03:29:26,170 --> 03:29:28,670
I mean, it's not like there's a writer or a wrong answer.

2484
03:29:33,270 --> 03:29:36,290
I had another question, but I honestly have no idea what it was.

2485
03:29:44,420 --> 03:29:50,940
So do we want to defer to, because we have a new plan that we're going to be discussing

2486
03:29:50,940 --> 03:29:54,560
next month on the same part of the property.

2487
03:29:55,640 --> 03:29:56,060
Correct.

2488
03:29:56,060 --> 03:29:59,960
If you're for your April agenda, we have received a

2489
03:30:12,140 --> 03:30:29,520
And then we have the annual report. Correct. And then you also have some other items that the board of commissioners have given you for some discussion and making a recommendation, which would be discussion on street withs, and of course, your.

2490
03:30:29,520 --> 03:30:34,720
for accessory dwelling unit discussion as well.

2491
03:30:40,430 --> 03:30:41,050
Yeah, so.

2492
03:30:42,390 --> 03:30:44,310
Yeah, how long are we going to keep delaying this?

2493
03:30:44,530 --> 03:30:45,270
That's what we have.

2494
03:30:46,490 --> 03:30:50,610
I mean, we have two options, approve or not approve,

2495
03:30:50,970 --> 03:30:52,790
based upon these three criteria.

2496
03:30:53,530 --> 03:30:56,130
So is that something that you guys want to talk about that tonight?

2497
03:30:57,070 --> 03:30:59,510
Or do you want, I mean, what, this is our commission.

2498
03:31:00,770 --> 03:31:02,150
We're, we're in this together.

2499
03:31:06,000 --> 03:31:16,300
No. No. Not about this particular item. We will have public comment at the end. And we are required to have that rate.

2500
03:31:18,900 --> 03:31:23,090
I don't even know. I'm so tired. I'm sorry.

2501
03:31:23,470 --> 03:31:27,470
That's why I think it's 9.30. I don't think you're going to get a lot of intelligent discussion.

2502
03:31:27,730 --> 03:31:29,450
Yeah. Amongst us tonight.

2503
03:31:29,630 --> 03:31:32,810
Right. So we're putting this on the docket then for May.

2504
03:31:32,810 --> 03:31:42,350
I mean April so we have like five things on there I think it will be very confusing to

2505
03:31:42,350 --> 03:31:44,210
combine this with the concept.

2506
03:31:44,630 --> 03:31:49,490
I think you would be better off doing this in May.

2507
03:31:52,470 --> 03:32:02,200
Okay so before just before we go back into public comment for April we're going to start

2508
03:32:02,200 --> 03:32:02,700
at 7.

2509
03:32:07,430 --> 03:32:14,790
We're going to we're going to talk about the annual report, the concept plan for

2510
03:32:14,790 --> 03:32:17,970
the Simmer's property that's located in town for 38 townhomes,

2511
03:32:20,760 --> 03:32:21,980
80 use.

2512
03:32:26,070 --> 03:32:27,390
And then point

2513
03:32:27,390 --> 03:32:33,030
of clarity, have we gotten the survey results from that survey that Vicki did? Because I

2514
03:32:33,030 --> 03:32:36,170
think part of it was like based upon the revitalization of the economic.

2515
03:32:36,170 --> 03:32:56,010
I just received in the day, so I will disseminate that way we can kind of circle back because we may want to break down our revitalization topics because it's like that's a whole thing in itself of like a whole other review on what that's going to look like.

2516
03:32:56,430 --> 03:33:03,230
So I think maybe addressing what we need to fix now would probably be prudent versus doing all of that.

2517
03:33:03,230 --> 03:33:04,610
So,

2518
03:33:08,370 --> 03:33:12,810
and what else you said the street, yeah, the street was correct.

2519
03:33:22,130 --> 03:33:36,120
So, annual report, concept plan of in town, summer property, ADUs, revitalization survey recap.

2520
03:33:37,260 --> 03:33:41,740
Yeah, I'd like to, when you discuss, I'd like to have the upcoming development major

2521
03:33:41,740 --> 03:33:46,060
here as well for tanger questions, so I'll see if she'll bail more or not.

2522
03:33:46,360 --> 03:33:49,000
Okay, and then street woods,

2523
03:33:51,200 --> 03:33:52,960
does that cover everything that you have?

2524
03:33:53,080 --> 03:33:54,500
Do we have anything else that's coming down?

2525
03:33:55,320 --> 03:34:02,520
No, I haven't gotten anything, and the deadline for making the April meeting was this past

2526
03:34:02,520 --> 03:34:05,500
Friday, so we can't accept anything else.

2527
03:34:05,500 --> 03:34:12,500
Okay, so the nay it'll be the annexation of

2528
03:34:14,810 --> 03:34:18,050
the 18-point whatever acres, right?

2529
03:34:19,390 --> 03:34:20,310
Simmer's property.

2530
03:34:20,650 --> 03:34:27,820
Well, I mean, I don't know if you want to have anything in May because logically we would

2531
03:34:27,820 --> 03:34:31,660
want to do or have the applicant do a traffic impact study.

2532
03:34:32,340 --> 03:34:38,060
So is there a direction from the planning commission at this point that we would like

2533
03:34:38,060 --> 03:34:46,440
to add into the existing traffic impact study to, because you're going to need that information

2534
03:34:46,440 --> 03:34:53,560
to help formulate your response and make your findings, make your recommendation to the

2535
03:34:53,560 --> 03:34:54,360
mayor and commissioners.

2536
03:34:55,140 --> 03:35:01,300
So that is important information for you to have to facilitate in your deliberation and

2537
03:35:01,880 --> 03:35:03,520
make formulating your recommendation.

2538
03:35:04,040 --> 03:35:04,160
All right.

2539
03:35:04,160 --> 03:35:11,580
And I can we also add about the existing parking situation with the two streets that they're they're trying to also widen and go through because

2540
03:35:12,220 --> 03:35:17,600
That's that's a big concern for me. I know it's not part of it, but it's impacting a

2541
03:35:18,280 --> 03:35:20,880
traffic study is not going to look at parking

2542
03:35:21,720 --> 03:35:30,840
They but it will look at traffic. So you know take into consideration the existing conditions and formulate the added

2543
03:35:33,180 --> 03:35:38,500
anticipated growth as well as what the development will produce, but they won't, doesn't look

2544
03:35:38,500 --> 03:35:43,040
at, you know, the parking conditions. But that is definitely something that you can state

2545
03:35:43,040 --> 03:35:49,900
in your recommendation to the mayor and commissioners that that's something that is a concern to

2546
03:35:49,900 --> 03:35:50,080
you.

2547
03:35:52,840 --> 03:35:58,420
Okay. And then what about the stormwater management? Can we also address that preliminary with

2548
03:35:58,420 --> 03:36:08,280
traffic study to figure out if this will alleviate all of the issues. I know it's hard

2549
03:36:08,280 --> 03:36:13,000
to say because there's litigation happening, but whatever is being proposed is that actually

2550
03:36:13,000 --> 03:36:19,100
going to be ratified and amicable to the county because they're the ones that approve

2551
03:36:19,100 --> 03:36:19,460
it.

2552
03:36:21,280 --> 03:36:29,080
So, so you're you're asking if if that like the storm water can be something that you can look at now.

2553
03:36:30,080 --> 03:36:33,600
Yeah, in conjunction with the development is that what you're saying?

2554
03:36:33,760 --> 03:36:38,020
Yeah, and and informulating your your recommendation to the mayor commissioners.

2555
03:36:38,280 --> 03:36:43,740
I mean, yeah, you can absolutely put any of that information into your recommendation.

2556
03:36:43,740 --> 03:36:50,020
Yeah, just keeping in mind that the ultimate stormwater facility approval rests with the county

2557
03:36:50,960 --> 03:36:57,380
Not with them on right. That's what I'm saying and not for us, but for them the the bodies that be

2558
03:36:58,060 --> 03:36:59,120
bless or not

2559
03:36:59,860 --> 03:37:06,500
The the point was also made that this traffic study should be done while school is still in session

2560
03:37:06,500 --> 03:37:08,360
Yeah, okay

2561
03:37:08,360 --> 03:37:09,020
That makes sense.

2562
03:37:09,020 --> 03:37:11,580
That just keeps that in mind in terms of how you're going.

2563
03:37:14,240 --> 03:37:19,420
And then the peak times will be adjusted to reflect NVR's traffic.

2564
03:37:19,600 --> 03:37:19,700
Right.

2565
03:37:20,300 --> 03:37:20,460
Yeah.

2566
03:37:20,640 --> 03:37:28,660
I mean, when the traffic study was originally done, it was not or did not take into consideration

2567
03:37:28,660 --> 03:37:30,540
NVR shift changes.

2568
03:37:31,240 --> 03:37:35,920
The amendment to that traffic impact study did take that into account.

2569
03:37:35,920 --> 03:37:39,660
So they read it their counts and took that into consideration.

2570
03:37:40,340 --> 03:37:43,780
So again, we can rely on those time frames

2571
03:37:43,780 --> 03:37:47,240
that were previously used in the amendment

2572
03:37:47,640 --> 03:37:50,580
to the traffic impact study and apply those

2573
03:37:50,900 --> 03:37:53,880
to have them update that.

2574
03:37:54,140 --> 03:37:59,520
So it would include peak hours, which is our standard morning

2575
03:37:59,520 --> 03:38:01,500
peak hour and your evening peak hour,

2576
03:38:01,500 --> 03:38:04,280
as well as the NBR shift changes.

2577
03:38:04,280 --> 03:38:04,420
Yes.

2578
03:38:04,940 --> 03:38:05,240
Okay.

2579
03:38:11,890 --> 03:38:17,330
Anything else last time that the previous commission asked for that helped them make their

2580
03:38:17,330 --> 03:38:17,710
decision?

2581
03:38:20,530 --> 03:38:20,850
No.

2582
03:38:21,170 --> 03:38:23,430
I mean, I don't have anything else to add.

2583
03:38:23,650 --> 03:38:27,530
I've provided with all the information minus the traffic impact study.

2584
03:38:29,130 --> 03:38:30,150
Is that sound fair?

2585
03:38:30,610 --> 03:38:30,690
Good.

2586
03:38:31,130 --> 03:38:32,190
All right.

2587
03:38:36,740 --> 03:38:40,820
I guess one question you may want to post to the applicant is a timing on the traffic impact

2588
03:38:40,820 --> 03:38:41,300
study.

2589
03:38:41,400 --> 03:38:43,000
If it can be done before the May meeting.

2590
03:38:43,000 --> 03:38:46,380
I don't know, I don't know the answer to that.

2591
03:38:48,300 --> 03:38:49,620
They said they don't know the answer.

2592
03:38:52,240 --> 03:38:55,780
Because the guidance we have had is that we're supposed to be hands off.

2593
03:38:56,140 --> 03:39:00,200
So my expectation is that I was talking to Kelly and Jim and we're coming a couple of

2594
03:39:00,200 --> 03:39:05,420
days and arranging for me to be hands off and for them to go.

2595
03:39:06,660 --> 03:39:10,000
But I didn't obviously want to proceed with that until we had tonight's meeting.

2596
03:39:10,400 --> 03:39:10,500
Yeah.

2597
03:39:10,500 --> 03:39:16,040
I mean, absolutely, Jim and I can work with their traffic engineer to formulate the

2598
03:39:16,040 --> 03:39:17,740
intersections to look at and to study.

2599
03:39:18,120 --> 03:39:25,780
My question to you is, is beyond these standard ones that have been looked at previously,

2600
03:39:26,560 --> 03:39:32,300
is there any other intersections that you would like to add to that update?

2601
03:39:35,320 --> 03:39:40,720
I think one of the citizens raised good point of coming off of Grace Ham.

2602
03:39:40,720 --> 03:39:48,260
Yeah, great salmon. I was church. Definitely needs to be and I guess the traffic study does it include the proposed

2603
03:39:48,880 --> 03:39:52,500
Intersections like the new ones that technically don't exist yet like so

2604
03:39:55,340 --> 03:39:56,380
since that does them

2605
03:39:57,160 --> 03:40:01,880
Obviously no one's turning left or right in which rate that doesn't exist. Correct. Yes. Yeah

2606
03:40:02,600 --> 03:40:04,760
There's a thought there

2607
03:40:15,120 --> 03:40:16,340
Stop are you guys good?

2608
03:40:17,020 --> 03:40:21,000
All right, I think so. Yep. We're ready to work with the with the applicant too

2609
03:40:21,240 --> 03:40:23,460
make sure that traffic impacts study gets squared away.

2610
03:40:23,820 --> 03:40:26,860
And then if it can't happen before our main meeting,

2611
03:40:27,600 --> 03:40:28,620
I'll update you in April.

2612
03:40:29,420 --> 03:40:29,520
OK.

2613
03:40:31,240 --> 03:40:33,240
A liaison, a temporary liaison.

2614
03:40:33,520 --> 03:40:33,840
Yes, sir.

2615
03:40:33,900 --> 03:40:34,260
A liaison.

2616
03:40:34,580 --> 03:40:36,400
I got one thought here.

2617
03:40:37,140 --> 03:40:40,460
And I don't know how it would be possible to do,

2618
03:40:40,520 --> 03:40:44,000
but with the developments that are proposed

2619
03:40:44,000 --> 03:40:47,800
to go in on Emmett's word road with access on the hour road,

2620
03:40:47,800 --> 03:40:55,120
Is there any way you can get a ballpark figure on traffic while you're doing this traffic

2621
03:40:55,120 --> 03:41:00,440
study to add to that because that's going to affect this whole deal in time?

2622
03:41:00,920 --> 03:41:01,760
Yes, absolutely.

2623
03:41:02,040 --> 03:41:04,660
All of those developments are taken into consideration.

2624
03:41:05,160 --> 03:41:10,680
So when the original traffic impact studies were done, it took into consideration Highmaker

2625
03:41:10,680 --> 03:41:17,520
Hills, Mountain Brook, Mechanics Town, the addition will be the leal, the six leal.

2626
03:41:18,080 --> 03:41:23,240
single family homes, but all the other developments that were in the pipeline at

2627
03:41:23,240 --> 03:41:29,500
that time are still in the pipeline now with the addition of that one family, our

2628
03:41:29,500 --> 03:41:34,000
six single family homes subdivision. So that'll all have to be included.

2629
03:41:34,500 --> 03:41:34,500
Yep.

2630
03:41:41,650 --> 03:41:43,410
All right, last call up here before I go into public comment.

2631
03:41:44,650 --> 03:41:49,210
If you have a public comment, please come to the podium, state your name and whether or

2632
03:41:49,210 --> 03:41:49,910
not you're a resident.

2633
03:42:07,270 --> 03:42:13,350
about the traffic study of Christine Johnson. I'm sorry. I am a resident. Yes. And I have been

2634
03:42:13,350 --> 03:42:20,890
sworn in. About the traffic study. So I do, you know, I live in Albuquerque and I'm always

2635
03:42:20,890 --> 03:42:28,770
in the community park. I love taking my dogs for walks, everything else. Grace Hambrook is extremely

2636
03:42:31,510 --> 03:42:38,890
They have another property across the street there that they use.

2637
03:42:39,450 --> 03:42:40,530
People like.

2638
03:42:40,930 --> 03:42:41,890
They go around.

2639
03:42:42,110 --> 03:42:50,570
They come down like if we have to make, and there's no room on that road for two cars to literally pass through safely.

2640
03:42:50,770 --> 03:42:57,170
If you come around the one corner where the park is and somebody else is flying, I'm surprised there hasn't been more accidents there.

2641
03:42:57,170 --> 03:43:02,810
If you add more traffic, especially if you add all these people, it is going to end up

2642
03:43:02,810 --> 03:43:03,090
happening.

2643
03:43:03,290 --> 03:43:04,810
Someone's going to end up dying around that corner.

2644
03:43:05,170 --> 03:43:09,030
There's the, I think it's a con cast hour or something there, I'm not sure where it is.

2645
03:43:09,570 --> 03:43:16,810
But to put that amount of traffic to go down through because people may want to try to avoid

2646
03:43:16,810 --> 03:43:25,590
the traffic going through that our townhouse developments or whatever, you're adding stress that is

2647
03:43:25,590 --> 03:43:26,310
going to be deadly.

2648
03:43:26,310 --> 03:43:28,910
I'm serious. That's all. Have a good night. Thank you.

2649
03:43:28,990 --> 03:43:30,610
Thank you. Mr. Twig.

2650
03:43:35,720 --> 03:43:40,720
Yes, our dance wig. I'm not a resident. Homeowner and Codian. Yes, I've been sworn in.

2651
03:43:41,120 --> 03:43:44,680
Just one thing. I know it's your job. I understand what council is saying.

2652
03:43:45,220 --> 03:43:49,320
Town Planner saying it's not your job to resolve litigation.

2653
03:43:49,640 --> 03:44:00,400
It's just to present your findings from this commission to the commissioners of whether they meet all the criteria put forth to them by training and zoning and the ordinances of thermont for the development.

2654
03:44:00,400 --> 03:44:11,400
But I don't know how we can say yes all the criteria has been met if the storm water management is still a issue even as part of this development.

2655
03:44:11,860 --> 03:44:17,140
How can we say yes all criteria has been met because that storm water management is still there.

2656
03:44:17,900 --> 03:44:18,660
It's there.

2657
03:44:19,760 --> 03:44:21,340
So has all criteria been met?

2658
03:44:22,320 --> 03:44:23,320
Technically no.

2659
03:44:23,320 --> 03:44:27,640
No, because that's still an issue, that does not resolve.

2660
03:44:28,320 --> 03:44:29,820
So has all the criteria been met?

2661
03:44:30,020 --> 03:44:33,660
No, it hasn't been met, because in the constant play and

2662
03:44:33,660 --> 03:44:37,320
that storm water management is there, but isn't even legal.

2663
03:44:39,700 --> 03:44:40,480
That's all I got, thank you.

2664
03:44:40,600 --> 03:44:40,840
Thank you.

2665
03:44:43,410 --> 03:44:44,730
Anybody else have public comment?

2666
03:44:48,410 --> 03:44:49,790
Last call, public comment?

2667
03:44:52,670 --> 03:44:56,490
Last call on the floor before we entertain a motion for adjournment.

2668
03:44:56,950 --> 03:44:59,110
I'll make the motion for adjournment, do I have a second?

2669
03:44:59,110 --> 03:44:59,330
Thank you.

2670
03:45:00,000 --> 03:45:03,140
All those in favor, please raise your right hand. Thank you.