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Good evening, everybody. My name is Muruhah Klensay. I'm the Assistant Director here at the Community Development Department in the City of Interet.

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Thank you for joining us for our anti-herrasment ordinance. Stay colder meeting. This was requested by our subcommittee.

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Housing and Homeless subcommittee at the August 20 meeting. As directed by Council, we were instructed to pursue an anti-herrasment ordinance.

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We took that forward, got some feedback and here we are today.

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So, again, while this is not live streamed, this is being recorded for a future watching.

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If anybody here needs translation services, they're in the back of the room.

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And so, in front of you, you will see, oh, let me introduce the rest of the team.

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I'm sorry.

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Good evening, everybody. I'm Leona Rollins, Housing Services Manager for the City of Interna.

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Hello, my name is Rachel Westman, Management Analyst in the Housing Services Division.

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Monica, the law, yes, is in city attorney.

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So we don't have mics.

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So because this is being recorded, we want to make sure we hear all your voices in the future.

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So as we share comments, there's two mics.

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So we're going to have to play hot potato and pass them around.

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Game is trainer.

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You can sit wherever you like around the table.

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Thank you.

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I have a couple other agenda packets here too.

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So we may go a little off script just because, again, I wasn't expecting.

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and we weren't expecting not sure how many people

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to expect this evening.

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On the agenda, though, we have our introductions.

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I'm going to jump around a bit.

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How the meeting is going to work, we'll have general public

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comments, should anyone in the audience just wish to share

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their thoughts don't really want to participate

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in what will be a page by page, exercise of the ordinance.

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We will have the ordinance that you have in draft form,

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displayed on the screen, and Leonor Rollins

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will scan type, while obviously hand type.

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We'll type your comments and bubbles on the image or on the PDF to capture those comments and then we will move forward with those comments back to our subcommittee at their meeting on September 30th.

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Before we get started into the actual exercise and before public comment we did want to have our city attorneys office representative senior attorney Monica de la Joya

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Just offer some comments to help set the stage for the meeting.

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We really want to make sure that we have bookends on our purview and just ensure that the

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comments we get here are the best value of your time and can make sure we can include

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everything that you give us this evening.

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So with that, Monica, if you wouldn't mind sharing your comments.

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Good evening.

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So as far as my role tonight under the municipal code, our office, the city attorney's office

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responsible for drafting ordinances and providing legal advice to the departments.

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So I will be working with staff to update the ordinance based on the feedback this evening.

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And so it's helpful for me to be here and hear the feedback directly and ask questions if needed.

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So the anti-harassment ordinance to be ultimately adopted by council

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should support program 32 of the housing element and the purpose of any

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protection policy according to the housing element is to counter the effects of economic displacement.

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So generally, tenant protection ordinances at the local level need to be more protective than state law not less.

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So ultimately the anti-horassment ordinance that is ultimately seen by council should be drafted to serve that purpose to help tenants counter the effects of displacement.

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So, as far as what would be helpful tonight is specificity to get specific recommendations for

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changes to the proposed ordinance.

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So, for example, feedback on how to improve section 9.10 40 in the draft ordinance, which lists

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the examples of prohibited harassment.

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So, if one of the examples should be deleted or improved, you know, or even just a minor change in language,

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that type of specificity will, is helpful feedback and would be appreciated.

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Same with the enforcement and penalty section, and with all the other sections.

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If there's something that in there that can be deleted or improved, modified in some way,

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specificity to that would be appreciated and if there's something like

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ways if there's something that's missing that's not in there. Feedback as to

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what is missing and should be and there would also be helpful. So if you're

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so we are going to be speaking to each other but if you're more comfortable with

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providing edits and writing, writing directly on your draft, either right now

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and sending it to us or taking it home, I'm redlining and then scanning a version to send to us.

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Then I'm going to provide an email where you can do that.

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And this could be an addition to what you provide us feedback tonight.

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So your feedback is not limited today.

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And so the email to provide any additional feedback is housing services.

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one word housing services at cityofentura.ca.gov and if you need that again, you know, we can

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recirculate that email and ideally what if you're going to provide any written feedback

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that will be email to that address email by September 19th so next Friday.

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And so, as Michael mentioned earlier, this is not being live stream, but it is being recorded.

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So we will have audio in case we need to re-here any feedback, but we are at the same time taking notes.

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And again, feel free to email if you think of something else later that was not discussed today.

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Thank you. Thank you Monica. So for those who just arrived, thank you for coming. We

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wanted to show how many people to expect, so we were going to do general public

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comment and then a focus group, but we're all the focus group, so that's great.

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Before we get started, I wanted to see if anyone, anybody here wants to just do a

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general three minute public comment, acknowledging that we're going to go through a page

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by page exercise with the ordinance itself. And just if you could speak your name and

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And then your role, or if you represent a certain group, or property owner, or tenant,

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that would be great.

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No, I didn't turn them on.

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There it is.

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There it is.

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Hi.

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Good afternoon.

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Everybody.

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My name is Adele Trainer.

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I'm a community member.

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I'm a property owner.

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I also work in the housing industry as a real estate agent for residential properties.

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Just before we get started, I was wondering if this information had already been put out.

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But what is this statistics and the data of the harassment that we are talking about that we're addressing?

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So we're coming up with a solution for harassment.

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What I'm not clear on is what kind of the harassment are we getting?

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What are those numbers that that part I've missed?

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So my understanding of how this ordinance came about,

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It's not necessarily in response to a specific request to address known harassment and as far

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as that information, we can request it from the Housing Rights Center.

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This ordinance stems from the housing element, obligations that we have to create ten

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and protection ordinances.

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So when council was provided a menu of ten and protection ordinances, this is one of the

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elections that they made.

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And also, this is general public comments.

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So just, general set the stage, we'll get into the,

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to the particulars of the ordinance itself.

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Yes, sir.

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Matt Caprito, community member, property owner, property manager,

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housing provider,

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such, so on and so forth.

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I think your introduction was so appropriate

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as to the focus of the ordinance and what the ordinance,

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What the outcome of the ordinance is supposed to do.

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I, in particular, was really taken a back by, and I think, also, a couple of the council members,

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when reading the ordinance and the background information.

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So I'm specifically talking about the discussion in the analysis.

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I think there are a number of things that are so inflammatory that don't need to be said.

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I think the message can be set in a way that as far as our analysis of why we're here and what we're doing.

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And I think it was just appropriately stated.

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But most of this is inflammatory and unnecessary.

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And it is, as a housing provider, it just really doesn't sit

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well.

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As a guy who's done everything right for the many years

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I have, I just find it wholly inflammatory.

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Thank you.

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Thank you for that feedback.

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All right, next,

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hygiene.

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OK, great.

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We're going to go page by page.

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And I think we're getting to a granular detail, which is very beneficial.

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I really wanted to get general set the stage.

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What's the sentiment moving in?

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And we will go line by line, but thank you, James, so much.

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One over here, please.

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Thank you.

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It turns green.

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Yes, if I can just say, that's the type of specific TV we need.

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So that was helpful.

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But you're going to have to repeat yourself once we get to it.

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I really just wanted general, like how we're feeling.

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Like, you know, you had, you know,

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we're going to take to consideration with our next report, you know, just

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general set the stage where we're at to help just inspire people as we move forward

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with the exercise.

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So thank you.

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So I'm going to hope I'm going to hope to aim.

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I'm going to aim to please and satisfy the request.

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Thank you.

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But my name is Jorge Delion.

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I am a resident of Ventura.

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I'm also a tenant with the hopes of one day being a property owner with the

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But witnessing how individuals behave, I'm very concerned that the way that this proposal

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is being written can be used as extortion for those that are properly honored as a housing

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provider.

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I have seen it firsthand where somebody will say, I have rights on do this.

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I will turn you in where somebody that rightfully have the ability of doing things because

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the property being destroyed was extorted into providing to the point that it, in that

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costing me money as the individual that helped find that tenant.

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Secondarily,

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when you limit someone's ability to document something that was discovered in

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a property just because you enter the property under a different scenario, I'm going to give

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you an example.

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We just discovered that one of the properties that we're bringing to market has mold.

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And during the inspections, if we would have been able to discover that and at that time,

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under this ordinance, if we discovered that under a different scenario, we would have to re-notice them,

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I would have been considered harassment under this rule by documenting a situation like that.

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So my encouragement for this group is, let's not lose sight of how to be able to provide a reasonable ordinance.

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For everybody involved and not limit somebody to be able to protect someone because, by the way, it's not lawful based on this ordinance.

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Thank you. Any other general comments?

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Over there? Marty? Hi, Marty. Would you mind passing the mic?

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Good evening, everyone.

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My name is Dr. Richard DeVay.

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I'm a professor of political science event

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or a college and a longtime event

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or a residence.

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I just wanted to make a couple of broad points.

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One is that in all of the housing

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policy work that we've been doing,

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essentially the city is flying blind.

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We do not have data,

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like housing rights commission might have some.

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But really we're running on anecdote,

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right? Tenants experience lands or experience with some tenants.

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So we don't really know this scope of this problem.

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So I think we need to keep that in mind.

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The other thing we need to keep in mind

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is the power imbalance between tenants and landlords.

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It's a structural issue.

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It's not a personal issue.

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Landlords have more power than tenants.

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That's the long and the short of it.

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If someone can kick you out of your home,

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you are in a less secure place

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than the person who owns the property.

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So again, that's not to say that all landlords are bad

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or all landlords are greater all tenants are bad.

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that's just to say that there are structural factors

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that we have to consider when looking at an ordinance.

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So I know this city can't really,

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without a rental registry or some way to study this,

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to put lots of money towards how much of this harassment happening,

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what kinds of harassment are happening,

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the academic literature I've been trying to look through

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is fairly scarce on this.

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So just keep in mind that we don't actually

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have a lot of solid data to go on

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and we do really have to keep in mind that some people have more power than others in these situations.

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Thank you.

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Would you like my passing note?

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There's a migrative front or pass it down perfect.

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Thank you.

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There's

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a migrative front or pass it down perfect.

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There's a migrative front or pass it down perfect.

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Thank you.

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Thank you.

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Would you check?

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Make sure your mic is on.

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It should be green if it's on.

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Is it?

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I think we didn't have your mic on, so we'll make sure to keep it on next time.

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Peter McKenzie, a long time Ventura resident, a landlord, also owner property management company,

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work with a lot of other landlords and a lot equal number of tenants.

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I'm excited that we're here to have a conversation and hopefully come to some sort of compromise,

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something that works for all sides that are involved.

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I would be pleased if we brought down the rhetoric, and we had an actual conversation.

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Obviously, both sides have their talking points, everybody knows that, but let's have a conversation

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and have something productive that takes into account both sides, which I think, which is currently written, that's not the case.

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Thank you.

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Any other general comments, sir?

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My name is Robert Chatternever.

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This is the second meeting of this type that I've attended

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in the last few months.

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I spent time on the tenant protection act.

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I'm an owner.

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I don't know when owners became the villains in need of regulation.

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I've been dealing with more and more regulation by the city, by the state, by the feds.

238
00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:41,220
I've got the feds wanting me to put electrical improvements that are not required by code in my section eight units.

239
00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:50,580
I'm not going to do it, and those tenants are probably going to get evicted because housing is not going to pay their share of the rent.

240
00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:56,760
I've spent time on the Tenant Protection Act that you came up with last time.

241
00:19:58,020 --> 00:20:04,440
This is a similar ceremony to be able to say that we've gathered input from all of the

242
00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:12,380
stakeholders when I fear it's a concluded proceeding.

243
00:20:13,060 --> 00:20:14,820
We're just going through the motions.

244
00:20:14,820 --> 00:20:19,360
I don't feel like our comments are really going to have an impact.

245
00:20:21,100 --> 00:20:23,480
I've had a great relationship with my tenants.

246
00:20:24,540 --> 00:20:29,180
My long-term tenants, I hardly ever raised the rents.

247
00:20:29,300 --> 00:20:36,100
I've got many units that are 30, 40, 50 percent below market rates.

248
00:20:37,660 --> 00:20:42,600
But having a deal with all this regulation, it's just wearing on me.

249
00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:45,180
And I don't know why I should be the good guy.

250
00:20:48,090 --> 00:20:56,450
I am ready to say that if this goes into effect, and I see this as not a shield for tenants

251
00:20:56,450 --> 00:20:59,310
but a sword to be used against landlords,

252
00:21:01,350 --> 00:21:02,330
this goes into effect.

253
00:21:02,490 --> 00:21:09,450
I'm going to have another round of right-end creases and start doing what I'm permitted to do by law.

254
00:21:10,410 --> 00:21:22,610
And I'm going to attribute it in the rent increase notices to all the regulation that I have to put up with that's just becoming more and more burdensome.

255
00:21:22,750 --> 00:21:25,410
This is not how I like to spend my evening.

256
00:21:27,290 --> 00:21:30,610
But some some place this has to stop.

257
00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:33,640
Thank you.

258
00:21:34,300 --> 00:21:37,160
So any other general comments before we get started?

259
00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:43,640
Just for background, we have a certified housing element, I'm sure you're from a housing

260
00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:47,660
element, as part of a city or jurisdictions general plan that's certified by the state.

261
00:21:48,420 --> 00:21:54,040
We have a myriad of programs in there that have been adopted by council and we are required

262
00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:55,780
as staff to fulfill.

263
00:21:56,840 --> 00:22:02,100
One of those programs is program 32 titled tenant protections.

264
00:22:02,100 --> 00:22:08,100
We went through an exercise with planning commission city council. I say a lot of familiar faces that were part of that.

265
00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:10,400
We provided a menu of options.

266
00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:18,820
Those menu of options were selected by council and advice staff to come back with these options.

267
00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:21,220
This ordinance is one of those options.

268
00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:24,700
We're going to the subcommittee.

269
00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:26,600
The ordinance was presented.

270
00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:39,380
Our subcommittee recommended get a task force together, get stakeholders together, let's have a round table discussion under the intent of being collaborative hearing from everybody.

271
00:22:40,100 --> 00:22:45,680
And I would like to all of us together because we want to see something different in this ordinance.

272
00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:53,200
So let's come in, proactively, collaboratively, you will see your notes on the screen being transcribed.

273
00:22:53,320 --> 00:23:03,760
It's our intent to attach that as an attachment to future reports for consideration of the elected and the appointed commissioners.

274
00:23:04,860 --> 00:23:12,060
So with that, I would really appreciate it if we could just quickly pass some mic and just introduce for the record everybody that is here.

275
00:23:12,060 --> 00:23:19,120
For anybody in the future that wants to live or watch this recorded, and then we can just have note of everybody who participated.

276
00:23:23,740 --> 00:23:29,540
Yeah. Peter McKenzie, resident landlord, owner property management company.

277
00:23:30,500 --> 00:23:35,340
Jose Rodriguez, committee organizer for calls, as well as a tenant and just a human.

278
00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:41,000
Hi everyone, Christian Nunes and you're a policy advocate with calls and the west side resident.

279
00:23:43,980 --> 00:23:46,380
In Gamble, I live on the East End.

280
00:23:47,380 --> 00:23:51,240
I am one of the main organizers for the Venturitan Senior.

281
00:23:53,570 --> 00:23:54,790
Marty Ingram, landlord.

282
00:23:55,690 --> 00:23:56,990
Who's going to make the final decision?

283
00:23:57,190 --> 00:23:58,670
Are we going to finally get to the decisions?

284
00:23:58,930 --> 00:23:59,270
Council.

285
00:24:00,210 --> 00:24:03,130
So the way on the agenda, you'll see the dates that it's proposed.

286
00:24:03,390 --> 00:24:05,430
September 25th, it goes to Planning Commission.

287
00:24:06,150 --> 00:24:08,970
September 30th, it goes to our Housing and Homeless Subcommittee.

288
00:24:09,550 --> 00:24:11,590
And Council, I believe, is October.

289
00:24:11,590 --> 00:24:13,730
I don't have it in front of me, I get my last agenda.

290
00:24:14,690 --> 00:24:16,410
7th, thank you.

291
00:24:17,390 --> 00:24:19,070
So that will be the final decision makers.

292
00:24:20,030 --> 00:24:21,310
Will there be more of these meetings?

293
00:24:21,710 --> 00:24:22,770
Or is we're going to be done?

294
00:24:23,370 --> 00:24:25,430
I mean, this is like we just keep doing these meetings.

295
00:24:26,450 --> 00:24:26,530
Yes.

296
00:24:28,130 --> 00:24:32,090
This is hopefully one good meeting where we go line by line.

297
00:24:32,130 --> 00:24:35,790
We get that product and we move it forward to the next round.

298
00:24:39,950 --> 00:24:42,030
Richard and VAPHD, professor of political science,

299
00:24:42,030 --> 00:24:43,030
Ventura College.

300
00:24:44,830 --> 00:24:48,630
Grant Whitefis, resident and real estate agent.

301
00:24:49,590 --> 00:24:52,870
Camie Pinsack, community member, real tour,

302
00:24:53,210 --> 00:24:55,550
a Ventura County Coastal Association of real tours.

303
00:24:58,030 --> 00:25:00,050
Robert Chattanova, housing provider,

304
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:04,160
Matt Capredo,

305
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:08,900
lifelong area resident, housing provider,

306
00:25:10,180 --> 00:25:13,160
property manager, property owner,

307
00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:26,060
and everything else. By the way, I want to applaud staff for having a dialogue. The meetings

308
00:25:26,060 --> 00:25:31,860
that were previous to this were not a two-way conversation, they were a one-way conversation.

309
00:25:32,360 --> 00:25:41,420
If there's any progress that I think is worthy here and it would be that we're having a dialogue

310
00:25:41,420 --> 00:25:45,540
and I can't tell you how much, many of us appreciate that. Thank you.

311
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:47,420
Thank you. I appreciate that.

312
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:51,720
Dr. Ozzo, Ventura County Coastal Association of Realtors.

313
00:25:53,360 --> 00:25:56,400
Jane Haker, broker owner of California's property management.

314
00:25:57,980 --> 00:26:02,080
Bridget Gonzalez, life-long Ventura resident, broker owner of Joe Capri-Listate.

315
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:07,440
Joe Verning, Realtor, and property manager here in Ventura.

316
00:26:08,780 --> 00:26:14,020
Good evening, Karen Flock, Ventura Housing, and Homes for All, and Ventura Resident.

317
00:26:15,700 --> 00:26:17,480
Jorge Delione, I'm a resident of Ventura.

318
00:26:17,980 --> 00:26:20,300
Also, almost a lifelong resident of Ventura.

319
00:26:21,260 --> 00:26:24,560
I happen to be a real estate broker, but I'm a tenant as well.

320
00:26:26,890 --> 00:26:32,130
A delicate trainer, community member first, and always, but also a homeowner.

321
00:26:33,230 --> 00:26:34,230
And I really care about housing.

322
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:44,060
Can trainer, citizen of this wonderful little city, and just concerned about, or this is all going.

323
00:26:46,310 --> 00:26:49,890
Bonnie gets a long time venture resident, also a homeowner.

324
00:26:50,710 --> 00:26:53,910
And I also believe that we need to realize we need each other.

325
00:26:54,190 --> 00:26:56,290
I'm a landlord, and I need a good tenant.

326
00:26:56,770 --> 00:27:02,830
And a good tenant is an understanding realtor, but we need to come to an agreement.

327
00:27:03,650 --> 00:27:04,790
We need each other.

328
00:27:04,790 --> 00:27:07,550
Great. Thank you. Hello.

329
00:27:08,170 --> 00:27:08,810
Please.

330
00:27:09,910 --> 00:27:16,050
Royland Downs. I'm a Ventura resident and I'm also a real estate agent and potentially a landlord.

331
00:27:16,590 --> 00:27:19,070
Would you like to sit at the table? There's a seat right over there.

332
00:27:20,290 --> 00:27:21,950
There's on right there.

333
00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:33,140
Judy Alexander chair the Ventura Social Service Task Force and a member of Homes for all.

334
00:27:33,140 --> 00:27:39,440
and a homeowner and a 45th year resident of the city of Ventura.

335
00:27:44,150 --> 00:27:49,930
We could also pull up a couple chairs, Judy, and Dawn, I think your name was?

336
00:27:51,330 --> 00:27:51,990
Hello.

337
00:27:53,750 --> 00:27:56,550
My name is Shayna, I'm 25 years old.

338
00:27:56,610 --> 00:28:01,710
I've worked in several areas of education in the county and I am a renter.

339
00:28:03,450 --> 00:28:04,790
Okay, what a wonderful group.

340
00:28:04,790 --> 00:28:06,150
I'm really happy to see you all.

341
00:28:06,150 --> 00:28:07,930
So I'm with Ventura, Tendenzimian.

342
00:28:08,490 --> 00:28:12,290
Oh, taking time out of your evening from your family

343
00:28:12,290 --> 00:28:13,310
and loved ones to be here.

344
00:28:13,310 --> 00:28:14,190
So thank you for that.

345
00:28:14,690 --> 00:28:16,030
So as you'll see on the screen,

346
00:28:16,310 --> 00:28:18,850
we have the ordinance, the copy is identical

347
00:28:18,850 --> 00:28:21,750
to the one you have, hard copy in front of you.

348
00:28:21,970 --> 00:28:23,750
I have an extra one here.

349
00:28:24,650 --> 00:28:28,510
If anybody needs an extra copy, oh my gosh, that light.

350
00:28:29,210 --> 00:28:29,810
Anybody, Judy?

351
00:28:30,790 --> 00:28:31,830
You have one, okay, great.

352
00:28:33,990 --> 00:28:34,250
All right.

353
00:28:34,250 --> 00:28:36,870
So you'll see some mics around the table.

354
00:28:36,970 --> 00:28:39,790
We're going to do this kind of organic and free form.

355
00:28:40,530 --> 00:28:42,110
And we'll go section by section.

356
00:28:42,810 --> 00:28:43,970
Leona will type.

357
00:28:45,110 --> 00:28:47,890
And as we move on and get a thumbs up,

358
00:28:47,990 --> 00:28:50,050
kind of to move on to the next one, how does that sound?

359
00:28:51,070 --> 00:28:51,250
OK.

360
00:28:51,810 --> 00:28:52,170
All right.

361
00:28:52,530 --> 00:28:53,070
Thank you.

362
00:28:53,790 --> 00:28:55,830
So we can't really touch the ordinance title.

363
00:28:56,330 --> 00:28:58,010
So we'll move on to chapter description.

364
00:28:59,630 --> 00:29:02,450
Is there any concern or hesitation

365
00:29:02,450 --> 00:29:05,030
or suggested refinement with the project description.

366
00:29:07,070 --> 00:29:08,590
And it's okay if there's none.

367
00:29:10,750 --> 00:29:10,990
I'm sorry.

368
00:29:11,090 --> 00:29:12,490
Would you mind using the mic just because we're recording?

369
00:29:15,290 --> 00:29:18,310
I wonder if this is a program or a guidance.

370
00:29:22,100 --> 00:29:23,960
So it says this chapter establishes an entire

371
00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:25,040
harassment program.

372
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:28,020
And I would like for us to consider

373
00:29:28,020 --> 00:29:33,160
not using the word program but the word guidance.

374
00:29:38,090 --> 00:29:49,530
And the reason why, if I may, if it is a program, that means that people are going to feel that this is a, and now maybe I'm actually answering my own question on this.

375
00:29:51,050 --> 00:29:58,300
I just don't like the word program, and that's just a personal scenario, and it's, you know, right?

376
00:30:01,870 --> 00:30:05,490
I mean, we wouldn't order that out to see if anybody's going to do that.

377
00:30:05,490 --> 00:30:11,370
Would ordinance, I mean, it's verbatim to what the title is, but maybe that's just more straightforward.

378
00:30:12,690 --> 00:30:16,270
Ordinance, I'm seeing thumbs up, some what thumbs up, okay.

379
00:30:17,230 --> 00:30:22,490
And for changes like that, guidance, for example, is not appropriate because it's not guidance.

380
00:30:22,890 --> 00:30:26,370
It's a requirement, right? And the word program is pretty generic.

381
00:30:30,330 --> 00:30:39,250
So I think it's fine to make the suggestion, but I don't think we need to do a thumbs up or not as to, you know,

382
00:30:39,370 --> 00:30:42,230
word changes that are not substantive, okay?

383
00:30:42,910 --> 00:30:46,010
If anyone, you know, wants to chime in, they can.

384
00:30:47,510 --> 00:30:52,230
I think that's more also in alignment with the just the municipal code in general.

385
00:30:52,230 --> 00:30:53,010
so they 작업 isn't the starting point of grandma.

386
00:30:53,250 --> 00:30:58,610
It doesn't have, it doesn't provide guidance.

387
00:30:59,890 --> 00:31:01,890
It provides, you know, mandates, requirements,

388
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:04,760
programs,

389
00:31:04,940 --> 00:31:06,700
there's tacit Satation with the word program.

390
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:08,760
Can we just say Anything.

391
00:31:10,870 --> 00:31:14,490
The establishment, this chapter establishes an anti-herrasmin ordinance,

392
00:31:14,730 --> 00:31:15,710
just a supplemental segment.

393
00:31:15,710 --> 00:31:18,750
ordinance and then we can talk about it some more and see what matches with the rest of the

394
00:31:18,750 --> 00:31:20,490
municipal code.

395
00:31:21,350 --> 00:31:21,870
Thank you, Leona.

396
00:31:25,890 --> 00:31:31,110
Any other refinements to 9.10.010.010.

397
00:31:31,110 --> 00:31:32,070
Seeing none.

398
00:31:32,270 --> 00:31:32,770
We'll move on.

399
00:31:42,020 --> 00:31:42,200
Sure.

400
00:31:42,540 --> 00:31:42,640
Yeah.

401
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:43,020
Absolutely.

402
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:43,980
That's OK for sure.

403
00:31:45,140 --> 00:31:46,400
So chapter description.

404
00:31:46,620 --> 00:31:54,180
This chapter establishes an anti-harassment program or ordinance to supplement existing state

405
00:31:54,180 --> 00:32:00,720
federal laws, prohibiting and deterring harassment in all rental units, including single family

406
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:03,120
residences and condominiums.

407
00:32:08,220 --> 00:32:09,760
But I just got to ask again.

408
00:32:10,460 --> 00:32:19,180
So we're doing this because the Council directed you to come up with this or to, let's

409
00:32:19,180 --> 00:32:21,220
have a conversation on whether we need it.

410
00:32:21,220 --> 00:32:25,860
The Council directed us to come forward with an anti-harassment ordinance that's beyond what

411
00:32:25,860 --> 00:32:27,940
the state supplies already.

412
00:32:27,940 --> 00:32:28,820
That's correct.

413
00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:31,100
Even though we have no data, I understand.

414
00:32:31,220 --> 00:32:32,220
Thank you for that explanation.

415
00:32:38,780 --> 00:32:40,100
So moving on, sir?

416
00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:41,120
I'm sorry.

417
00:32:41,300 --> 00:32:41,780
There's a mic.

418
00:32:41,980 --> 00:32:44,580
I want to make sure we get all the voices in the recording.

419
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:45,080
Thank you.

420
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:45,260
Great.

421
00:32:45,260 --> 00:32:51,360
My light was just clarifying Council's directive was to come up with an ordinance that was supplemental

422
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:57,560
to state law, meaning enhancing state law, meaning in addition and above and greater than state law.

423
00:32:57,740 --> 00:32:58,680
Was that Council's directive?

424
00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:00,040
Council's directive.

425
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:03,380
But maybe we should pull up the motion exactly so we can have it on hand.

426
00:33:03,420 --> 00:33:04,080
It would be nice to have.

427
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:06,680
Is that a local anti harassment ordinance?

428
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:07,740
Can we reach?

429
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:08,880
Can you pull up the motion?

430
00:33:09,540 --> 00:33:10,080
Thank you.

431
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:13,620
Can we pause that question really quick or pause to get that answer?

432
00:33:17,130 --> 00:33:20,150
We have a lot of bright minds in this city, but I have a hard time believing that we're

433
00:33:20,150 --> 00:33:24,770
any brighter than the state in their already comprehensive laws that are on the books.

434
00:33:28,860 --> 00:33:29,300
Disagree.

435
00:33:37,540 --> 00:33:43,080
So just to be clear, there's state law and federal law that establishes protected

436
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:52,300
categories, and members of those protected categories are, for example, in California, I think

437
00:33:52,300 --> 00:33:55,780
it's called now the California Civil Rights Department, it used to be the Department

438
00:33:55,780 --> 00:33:56,900
of Fair Housing and Employment.

439
00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:02,360
So if you are in one of those protected categories, and you are discriminated in employment

440
00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:04,360
or housing, you go to them.

441
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:10,420
If you are discriminated for a reason, that is not in one of the protected categories,

442
00:34:10,420 --> 00:34:21,360
they are not, there's no statute, so the purpose of the ordinance is not to adopt

443
00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:28,960
state law locally only because there's already protections, you can just, you know,

444
00:34:29,180 --> 00:34:34,760
you already have recourse, but it is, there would be no purpose if not to go beyond

445
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:36,060
state law.

446
00:34:41,210 --> 00:34:47,730
What would be the purpose of not going beyond state law?

447
00:34:52,730 --> 00:34:52,730
So,

448
00:34:55,800 --> 00:35:01,920
but the council directed an anti-harassment ordinance.

449
00:35:08,610 --> 00:35:15,950
On May 27th, 2025 City Council directed staff to create an anti-harassment program which clearly defines harassment,

450
00:35:16,270 --> 00:35:22,530
protects property owners and tenants from several forms of harassment and to present the ordinance to city council for their

451
00:35:22,530 --> 00:35:26,010
consideration on or before October 1st 2025.

452
00:35:26,730 --> 00:35:27,390
This is a point of clarity.

453
00:35:27,590 --> 00:35:32,090
You did say that they directed staff to come up with an ordinance that also provided anti-harassment

454
00:35:32,090 --> 00:35:33,890
or harassment protections for landlords.

455
00:35:34,910 --> 00:35:36,230
Tenants and property owners.

456
00:35:36,710 --> 00:35:37,830
I just want to make sure I heard that correctly.

457
00:35:38,070 --> 00:35:38,530
Thank you.

458
00:35:39,110 --> 00:35:40,790
Just want to talk about the mortgage.

459
00:35:41,190 --> 00:35:41,450
Probably.

460
00:35:44,550 --> 00:35:45,490
I joke, Marty.

461
00:35:45,610 --> 00:35:46,930
Marty and I know each other.

462
00:35:47,950 --> 00:35:48,990
I was your landlord.

463
00:35:49,110 --> 00:35:50,190
She was my landlord.

464
00:35:50,730 --> 00:35:51,530
Thank you.

465
00:35:51,530 --> 00:35:58,830
Thank you, so here we are. Again, yes, ma'am.

466
00:36:02,980 --> 00:36:06,740
I'm sorry, I'm new here, so this is my first time hearing all this.

467
00:36:07,820 --> 00:36:14,920
So I'm trying to figure out, and I'm looking at the beginning just to understand what the ordinance is,

468
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:22,240
and it says an ordinance of the City Council of the City of San Francisco, California adopting a new title,

469
00:36:22,240 --> 00:36:30,500
Title 9 housing regulations, including chapter 9.10 anti-Harrassment program to the municipal code.

470
00:36:30,780 --> 00:36:36,160
Is that what it is? I wasn't sure what title new title Title 9 was all about.

471
00:36:36,380 --> 00:36:38,660
Correct. That's where it will live in our municipal code.

472
00:36:39,100 --> 00:36:40,220
It's adopted. Yes.

473
00:36:40,300 --> 00:36:41,840
I just wanted to be sure. Oh, thank you. No problem.

474
00:36:42,780 --> 00:36:48,820
Okay. So we are at now section 9 point. Are we cool with the motion?

475
00:36:49,180 --> 00:36:51,420
We got back the motion. Here we are. Okay.

476
00:36:51,420 --> 00:36:57,580
So, moving on to Purpose and Intent, 9.10.020.

477
00:36:57,940 --> 00:37:03,840
The purpose of this chapter is to promote safety and stability in the city's residential

478
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:10,300
rental market by establishing clear guidelines for tenants and property owners regarding unacceptable

479
00:37:10,300 --> 00:37:17,240
harassing behavior, providing protections that go beyond those afforded by state law, and creating

480
00:37:17,240 --> 00:37:22,020
effective enforcement mechanisms, including private civil remedies.

481
00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:27,900
Anyone want to take a

482
00:37:27,900 --> 00:37:28,500
siege, okay?

483
00:37:33,330 --> 00:37:33,850
I know.

484
00:37:34,450 --> 00:37:38,170
They're not turned on your mic, I think your mic is off. It'll be green for go.

485
00:37:44,300 --> 00:37:44,480
Does

486
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:45,160
you have to be closer?

487
00:37:47,570 --> 00:37:50,470
And one last time is anybody new translation services here tonight,

488
00:37:50,610 --> 00:37:52,090
because then I can dismiss our translator.

489
00:37:58,550 --> 00:38:07,580
So I note that the aim is to create guidelines for tenants and property owners, regarding

490
00:38:07,580 --> 00:38:13,040
an acceptable harassing behavior, yet in going through the ordinance,

491
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:16,040
just went through

492
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:16,460
it quickly.

493
00:38:17,020 --> 00:38:25,380
I didn't note any behaviors that could be attributed to tenants, that would be that would

494
00:38:25,380 --> 00:38:27,460
be harassing.

495
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:35,260
I mean, if I talk about somebody's immigration status, I'm going to lose a $2 to $10,000

496
00:38:35,260 --> 00:38:39,180
lawsuit, but if a tenant talks about it, that's OK.

497
00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:42,400
So I can address that.

498
00:38:43,140 --> 00:38:46,900
So for those of you who were at the subcommittee,

499
00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:50,960
if you saw the materials, the staff report,

500
00:38:51,460 --> 00:38:58,880
they're addressed why protections for landlords are not appropriate.

501
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:11,440
There is no other jurisdiction that provides protections for landlords and ultimately the purpose

502
00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:18,500
what the housing element requires is 10 protections, not protections for landlords and tenants.

503
00:39:19,220 --> 00:39:22,080
So that is not part of this proposed ordinance.

504
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:28,580
We don't intend to include those because they're not appropriate.

505
00:39:29,540 --> 00:39:33,460
It can create more problems than actually be helpful.

506
00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:37,440
So that is not going to be part of this.

507
00:39:38,580 --> 00:39:41,260
And so if we can just continue, it's in the staff report.

508
00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:44,100
I can share the copy with you.

509
00:39:44,100 --> 00:39:45,160
Why can we do it directly?

510
00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:47,880
But that would take time.

511
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:53,080
but you're correct, that protections for landlords are not in here.

512
00:39:56,000 --> 00:40:00,660
Not in, should not include guidelines for tenants if there are none.

513
00:40:01,500 --> 00:40:06,400
Okay, thank you, that's a good recommendation to make it on the comment.

514
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:07,300
More accurate.

515
00:40:12,380 --> 00:40:13,020
Question?

516
00:40:14,060 --> 00:40:14,420
Yes.

517
00:40:14,420 --> 00:40:15,060
Or comment, I'm sorry.

518
00:40:17,460 --> 00:40:21,320
So I disagree with your finding here, because I'm looking at the city of Claremont,

519
00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:25,720
And they actually have a Section 8.35030.

520
00:40:25,940 --> 00:40:27,580
It says landlord harassment.

521
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:33,380
And I don't think that this is all about working together

522
00:40:33,380 --> 00:40:42,160
and coming up with solutions that make this palatable.

523
00:40:43,140 --> 00:40:44,300
And compromise.

524
00:40:45,060 --> 00:40:49,800
And so, sorry, would you mind telling me the ordinance

525
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:51,100
I didn't catch it.

526
00:40:51,260 --> 00:40:54,140
I've got the city of Claremont pulled up.

527
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:57,020
It's 8.35, 0.030.

528
00:40:58,820 --> 00:40:59,060
Okay.

529
00:40:59,220 --> 00:40:59,880
We'll look at that.

530
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:03,240
There are four items under landlord harassment.

531
00:41:04,820 --> 00:41:09,820
And so I think it's appropriate that harassment works both ways.

532
00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:17,900
And I don't, I mean, I think it's just appropriate to add a section for landlord harassment.

533
00:41:17,900 --> 00:41:25,900
I don't think that's out of the realm of possibility, the ordinance itself, as you've started, it's said property owners and tenants.

534
00:41:28,450 --> 00:41:31,270
So you want to get tenants property owners and landlords?

535
00:41:32,130 --> 00:41:33,950
I, to expand to, I have a third.

536
00:41:34,610 --> 00:41:38,870
There, you can say housing, you call it whatever you want.

537
00:41:38,930 --> 00:41:39,770
Housing providers?

538
00:41:40,010 --> 00:41:45,210
Yeah, it says here, your ordinance says tenants and property owners, and I think that's appropriate.

539
00:41:45,210 --> 00:41:52,290
it. Okay. And I would like to include some of the items in that section because they work both ways.

540
00:41:53,850 --> 00:41:55,970
Clue items from the city of Claremont?

541
00:41:56,330 --> 00:42:01,590
And Clue items under, well, first of all, the premise was there's no other ordinance in the entire world.

542
00:42:01,750 --> 00:42:08,530
And I'm found one here in five minutes. And so that we have to really be careful about when we speak about things.

543
00:42:08,530 --> 00:42:24,510
I just think having clear language and factual language, I think is really important for this process to work and I think that would be adding some landlord harassment.

544
00:42:25,130 --> 00:42:33,430
I think you will get agreement all the way around because it works both ways, may not go the way around, but I think that would be appropriate.

545
00:42:33,430 --> 00:42:34,130
Thank you.

546
00:42:34,210 --> 00:42:37,930
Do the comments in the bubble that Leona has put?

547
00:42:39,330 --> 00:42:43,990
They do not reflect guidelines for tenants and property owners.

548
00:42:44,390 --> 00:42:45,310
That should be left there.

549
00:42:45,510 --> 00:42:50,270
Recommendation ad protections to, I'm sorry, I didn't, I missed that.

550
00:42:50,470 --> 00:42:50,670
In the bottom.

551
00:42:51,210 --> 00:42:51,290
Okay.

552
00:42:51,610 --> 00:42:54,630
I'd just like to leave the purpose and intent as it stood.

553
00:42:55,270 --> 00:42:57,170
I think this is all about harassment.

554
00:42:57,670 --> 00:43:01,310
I think in the world that we live in, harassment works both ways.

555
00:43:01,310 --> 00:43:07,610
I think it's reasonable supposition that we include some language for landlord harassment.

556
00:43:09,170 --> 00:43:13,970
I don't think you can, as a worldly person, think that it only works one way.

557
00:43:14,730 --> 00:43:14,750
Okay.

558
00:43:14,990 --> 00:43:16,210
Thank you.

559
00:43:17,210 --> 00:43:17,670
Sir?

560
00:43:18,630 --> 00:43:23,130
Yeah, I'm fine with removing the guidelines for tenants and leaving it all for tenant protections.

561
00:43:23,970 --> 00:43:27,370
Because landlords already have enforcement mechanisms that they could wield against tenants.

562
00:43:27,370 --> 00:43:30,030
So if a landlord has a tenant that's harassing them,

563
00:43:30,030 --> 00:43:31,790
they can evict them or raise the rent,

564
00:43:32,390 --> 00:43:34,210
and inflict an immediate financial penalty,

565
00:43:34,910 --> 00:43:36,390
whereas tenants don't have any one

566
00:43:36,390 --> 00:43:37,630
that they can go to at this point.

567
00:43:38,210 --> 00:43:41,110
So again, this is a structural problem

568
00:43:41,890 --> 00:43:46,290
of landlords have power to enforce behavior on tenants

569
00:43:46,290 --> 00:43:49,010
that tenants don't have because tenants can't go anywhere.

570
00:43:50,830 --> 00:43:53,150
And again, we're also using, again,

571
00:43:53,450 --> 00:43:54,850
I'm speaking from a structural position

572
00:43:54,850 --> 00:44:00,610
because all of the landlords in the room and the tenants, most of us were all using anecdotal

573
00:44:00,610 --> 00:44:00,950
data.

574
00:44:01,230 --> 00:44:05,330
So we don't actually know if the city needs to take an interest in landlord protection

575
00:44:05,330 --> 00:44:08,210
because we have no idea how often it happens.

576
00:44:09,070 --> 00:44:15,050
So we can only really make big decisions for the entire city based on structural problems that

577
00:44:15,050 --> 00:44:15,510
we have.

578
00:44:15,610 --> 00:44:20,090
And we do know that we have structural problems because the price of rent has gone up

579
00:44:20,090 --> 00:44:22,530
double in the 20 years that I've been living here.

580
00:44:23,510 --> 00:44:29,550
There's lots of data around affordability, eviction rates, that's kind of thing we can find and deal with.

581
00:44:30,350 --> 00:44:34,830
So this idea that the city is a flood of tenants who are harassing landlords.

582
00:44:35,510 --> 00:44:37,950
We just can't sustain because we don't know.

583
00:44:38,590 --> 00:44:42,090
And landlords already have tools that they can use against tenants.

584
00:44:42,170 --> 00:44:45,750
And tenants don't really have any options if they have a landlord who is harassing them.

585
00:44:46,490 --> 00:44:50,790
So, I heard this comment that you're okay with this as written.

586
00:44:50,990 --> 00:44:57,390
I've heard another comment that we need to embolden a bit for property owners in landlords.

587
00:44:57,490 --> 00:44:59,870
And I believe this gentleman has a comment over here.

588
00:45:00,620 --> 00:45:12,020
Yeah, I don't agree with what you're saying, because what you're describing is illegal. It's retaliatory. There's laws that prevent landlords from doing that. And if any landlord does that, they're breaking the law.

589
00:45:13,660 --> 00:45:16,980
What? The white parade or another one.

590
00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:29,480
But the other thing I'll say is, I think we can all agree that harassing anybody is bad. So why are we, why are we stuck on a landlord or a tenant?

591
00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:37,080
It's all not acceptable, and I think that is the crux of my issue with this ordinance is

592
00:45:38,140 --> 00:45:45,460
Why are we excluding landlords because there's plenty of good landlords? There's plenty of good tenants. The other thing I want to say is

593
00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:51,900
Oh, I just lost it. I'll get it later. Okay, if I can go before you so

594
00:45:51,900 --> 00:46:00,420
So staff based on the ordinance, staff looked at in surrounding cities and other jurisdictions.

595
00:46:01,540 --> 00:46:05,560
We did not see an adopted ordinance that has protections for landlord, as far as I'm aware.

596
00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:09,280
I'm not aware of Clairemont adopting this ordinance.

597
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:15,880
I think they're still maybe like in the process that we are, but they are maybe drawing it out a little bit longer.

598
00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:22,100
So I'm not aware of an adopted ordinance, it's possible, I'm not aware of it.

599
00:46:22,500 --> 00:46:30,940
Second of all, the problem, I totally agree that harassment is, the problem is not that, you know,

600
00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:36,740
harassment should only be prohibited by landlords.

601
00:46:37,160 --> 00:46:37,780
That's not the problem.

602
00:46:37,780 --> 00:46:40,780
problem as stayed in the server for is enforcement.

603
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:45,620
Enforcement cannot be the same because the point of a housing

604
00:46:45,620 --> 00:46:51,000
element is to stop tenant displacement, not to contribute to it.

605
00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:54,560
And if enforcement is equal for both sides, then that is

606
00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:55,660
contributing to displacement.

607
00:46:56,240 --> 00:47:03,840
That is why we informed the council that protections for landlords

608
00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:13,660
are not advisable we can take note that participants in this session still continue to advocate

609
00:47:13,660 --> 00:47:21,940
for landlords and we can point out why, but right now we are not going to copy and paste

610
00:47:21,940 --> 00:47:26,080
what's in the draft ordinance for Claire Montgomery Canada to add in here, but we can let

611
00:47:26,080 --> 00:47:31,140
council know that that's still being requested by members of the community.

612
00:47:54,300 --> 00:47:56,500
I don't understand the question.

613
00:48:07,460 --> 00:48:13,500
What I said is that enforcement, enforcement cannot be the same for both sides.

614
00:48:14,860 --> 00:48:20,660
That creates unintended consequences and after looking at the issue, we don't want to create unintended consequences

615
00:48:20,660 --> 00:48:24,040
is that lead to tenant displacement, which is the purpose,

616
00:48:24,780 --> 00:48:26,280
which is, goes counter to the direction

617
00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:27,220
from the housing element.

618
00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:28,740
So you're saying it.

619
00:48:33,060 --> 00:48:34,760
That's not what I said, can we move on?

620
00:48:35,180 --> 00:48:36,300
We can talk about it individually.

621
00:48:36,980 --> 00:48:38,060
You can look at the staff report.

622
00:48:38,220 --> 00:48:39,180
It's explained in there.

623
00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:40,760
As to why it's not advisable,

624
00:48:45,560 --> 00:48:47,660
I explained that the other jurisdictions

625
00:48:47,660 --> 00:48:51,080
that we looked at did not have that.

626
00:48:54,120 --> 00:48:56,620
Well, generally, we try to look at what our neighbors

627
00:48:56,620 --> 00:48:59,300
and other cities are doing, what's happening.

628
00:49:05,700 --> 00:49:11,700
to know why we're doing this, and then it's certainly what we're asked to do.

629
00:49:12,020 --> 00:49:15,360
So I actually wrote down, and I was trying to copy of it.

630
00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:21,400
But what we read earlier, I thought you were supposed to write a board

631
00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:26,200
if there's just lines for harassment, orders, and housing for buyers.

632
00:49:27,060 --> 00:49:29,560
So that was my incorrect.

633
00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:33,000
On May, so we can go back in time to to watch May 27,

634
00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:39,360
In 2020, City Council directed staff to create an anti-harassment program, which clearly defines

635
00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:44,920
harassment, protects property owners and tenants from several forms of harassment and

636
00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:50,160
to present the ordinance to City Council for their consideration, honor before October 1st.

637
00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:56,220
Which appears to be a balance statement from our City Council, the contrary to legal opinion

638
00:49:56,220 --> 00:49:58,560
over here that it shouldn't be balanced.

639
00:49:58,560 --> 00:50:06,400
The city council said find a balance between the landlords and the tenants right that's what it says

640
00:50:06,400 --> 00:50:07,780
And that is why we're here

641
00:50:28,560 --> 00:50:36,600
that feels a bit what decided when you were asked or the charge was to define harassment

642
00:50:36,600 --> 00:50:38,020
for both sides.

643
00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:40,040
So I just want to make sure that's there.

644
00:50:40,220 --> 00:50:40,460
Yes.

645
00:50:40,620 --> 00:50:45,640
The issue is not with prohibiting harassment both sides.

646
00:50:46,100 --> 00:50:48,880
The issue is with the enforcement.

647
00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:54,740
And if you're not going to have an enforcement mechanism, it really should not be in there.

648
00:50:54,980 --> 00:50:57,440
So as far as balancing enforcement,

649
00:50:57,440 --> 00:51:02,780
And unless it's completely two different types of remedies,

650
00:51:05,720 --> 00:51:08,140
enforcement, if they're equal,

651
00:51:09,860 --> 00:51:13,680
could lead to tenant displacement, which is against the purpose of the housing element.

652
00:51:14,940 --> 00:51:22,420
So, we're not there. You can't not define something for a future clause.

653
00:51:22,420 --> 00:51:37,940
So if we're being asked to define what harassment is for a landlord and what harassment is for a tenant, we can't not not define them because you're afraid that if someone harasses their landlord, they're going to get replaced.

654
00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:45,880
That's not fair to be able to say, oh well, because this person is going to say something bad to you, they're going to get moved down.

655
00:51:45,940 --> 00:51:49,580
We're not going to define what harassment is for a landlord or a tenant or a landlord.

656
00:51:49,580 --> 00:51:52,220
We're going to go out to actually to that into the next section.

657
00:51:52,520 --> 00:51:53,780
We'll talk to about definitions.

658
00:51:55,140 --> 00:51:55,640
So I just...

659
00:51:55,640 --> 00:51:57,420
I'm just going to be on the city premise.

660
00:51:57,880 --> 00:51:59,940
But so we're saying if I understand this correctly,

661
00:52:00,140 --> 00:52:01,560
then there's been a lot more

662
00:52:04,220 --> 00:52:05,520
to ask you to plan for.

663
00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:12,240
No, so what I said, that's what you're saying.

664
00:52:12,560 --> 00:52:16,020
So what I'm saying is that in...

665
00:52:16,020 --> 00:52:25,620
I agree that it would be ideal to have protections against harassment for landlords,

666
00:52:25,620 --> 00:52:29,720
But without enforcement, there is no real purpose.

667
00:52:29,920 --> 00:52:31,460
There has to be an enforcement mechanism.

668
00:52:32,180 --> 00:52:38,980
So then enforcement and enforcement can lead to unintended

669
00:52:38,980 --> 00:52:40,740
consequences for tenants.

670
00:52:41,580 --> 00:52:43,040
So if you're not going to have enforcement,

671
00:52:43,940 --> 00:52:47,060
then there's really no purpose to have the protections.

672
00:52:47,280 --> 00:52:50,440
And that's why, like the most other jurisdictions,

673
00:52:51,080 --> 00:52:54,240
do not have those protections for landlord.

674
00:52:54,740 --> 00:53:01,700
because of the enforcement, because the enforcement can lead to unintended consequences that will go against the housing element.

675
00:53:04,660 --> 00:53:10,440
I also want to just take a moment. We got five pages to go through. It's seven o'clock.

676
00:53:11,100 --> 00:53:17,860
Like, we can, I think, belabor whether or not this ordinance should be an effect or not to or all blue in the face.

677
00:53:18,680 --> 00:53:23,360
We as staff were charged with a deliverable, and with that, a collaborative session to

678
00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:26,140
garner all of your input, and that is what we're tasked here today.

679
00:53:26,600 --> 00:53:32,420
So the bottom line is that the landlord, the tenant, and landlord protections, this

680
00:53:32,420 --> 00:53:35,700
is really designed as a tenant protection act.

681
00:53:36,000 --> 00:53:38,320
If that's the case, then that's where we need to go.

682
00:53:38,760 --> 00:53:41,720
We can go to council and debate this issue.

683
00:53:42,400 --> 00:53:46,200
Debating it here isn't going to do anything else, and there is a lot to go through.

684
00:53:46,200 --> 00:53:52,800
And thank you, and with that, well, you know, this is under the tenant protection program 32 of our housing element.

685
00:53:53,000 --> 00:54:02,660
We did get the feedback talk to landlords talk to property owners to try and have this, you know, two-way conversation to have an ordinance that hopefully meets everybody in the middle.

686
00:54:03,260 --> 00:54:07,240
So that is what we're tasked with in charge with today, and I hope you can join me in that.

687
00:54:07,600 --> 00:54:14,760
I know that we could probably go letter by letter, and we're willing to stay past date if you are, but you know,

688
00:54:14,760 --> 00:54:17,800
I also want to be cognizant and sensitive to your time too.

689
00:54:17,980 --> 00:54:25,320
And so, yes, there is much opportunity to have a conversation at our future meetings that

690
00:54:25,320 --> 00:54:29,920
are on your agenda, planning commission, subcommittee meeting, and council for this ordinance.

691
00:54:30,780 --> 00:54:35,220
So while I appreciate the healthy dialogue back and forth, I would love it if we could kind

692
00:54:35,220 --> 00:54:40,020
of come to the next sentence and section and see how else we could maybe bring this closer

693
00:54:40,020 --> 00:54:42,200
to a consensus of some form.

694
00:54:42,200 --> 00:54:44,940
So just before you do, and I'm all about moving forward,

695
00:54:46,200 --> 00:54:48,920
let's just be real here and say guidance,

696
00:54:49,360 --> 00:54:51,200
guidelines for tenants and property owners.

697
00:54:51,360 --> 00:54:53,060
This is really guidelines for tenants.

698
00:54:53,480 --> 00:54:57,780
I think that's just so we're clear.

699
00:54:57,880 --> 00:55:01,100
I just want to make sure that there's a note there

700
00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:04,740
that says that's directly what this is for.

701
00:55:05,140 --> 00:55:07,520
Because it shouldn't say landlords,

702
00:55:07,940 --> 00:55:11,080
if it's property owners, if it doesn't relate to them, thank you.

703
00:55:11,080 --> 00:55:12,720
And then we can move forward.

704
00:55:41,920 --> 00:55:44,040
So I'm seeing this more as an evolving dialogue.

705
00:55:44,780 --> 00:55:47,900
While we had our first draft of our ordinance city attorney's office

706
00:55:47,900 --> 00:55:50,660
reviewed and consult with our contract attorney B.B.K.

707
00:55:50,840 --> 00:55:55,740
They advised us for the reasons that a senior attorney Monica Delooy

708
00:55:55,740 --> 00:55:59,300
mentioned to extract components involving property owners.

709
00:55:59,640 --> 00:56:01,420
Draft was presented without property owners.

710
00:56:01,700 --> 00:56:05,080
Here we are city council subcommittee said talk to property owners.

711
00:56:05,380 --> 00:56:08,680
So I still feel it's an evolving conversation that ultimately will be decided on

712
00:56:08,680 --> 00:56:15,160
decision-makers. So I think the tension is evident within the comments. Someone

713
00:56:15,160 --> 00:56:20,160
it in, someone it out and will report that out and as a neutral fashion is

714
00:56:20,160 --> 00:56:24,180
possible and leave it to our electives to decide. Does that sound okay?

715
00:56:29,220 --> 00:56:32,840
No, but it's not adopted yet, right? So they gave the direction.

716
00:56:33,320 --> 00:56:37,640
Have a menu of options. There is always an opportunity for that to evolve by way

717
00:56:37,640 --> 00:56:41,220
of a discretionary hearing and a public hearing before something is adopted.

718
00:56:41,220 --> 00:56:49,540
So with that, I believe we are still within purpose and attempt can we move on to definitions.

719
00:56:51,040 --> 00:56:52,480
I'm seeing if you thank you.

720
00:56:53,000 --> 00:56:54,100
Love me a thumbs up.

721
00:56:54,520 --> 00:56:57,960
All right, so 9.10.030 definitions.

722
00:56:58,740 --> 00:57:03,580
As used in this chapter, the following terms are defined as follows.

723
00:57:04,580 --> 00:57:05,260
I'm sorry.

724
00:57:05,260 --> 00:57:06,960
So, we can one definition of the client, so we'd like it.

725
00:57:06,960 --> 00:57:07,480
Absolutely.

726
00:57:08,560 --> 00:57:08,820
Okay.

727
00:57:09,300 --> 00:57:11,900
So, are we okay with that sentence as presented?

728
00:57:13,420 --> 00:57:14,860
I mean, there's two follows in there.

729
00:57:16,060 --> 00:57:19,560
The grammar person of me wants me to strike one of the follows, but it's okay.

730
00:57:20,680 --> 00:57:22,600
First definition, harassment.

731
00:57:24,400 --> 00:57:32,780
Any intentional conduct, design to annoy, harass, injure, provoke, or vex another person.

732
00:57:34,920 --> 00:57:35,980
See a couple thumbs up?

733
00:57:35,980 --> 00:57:39,820
I think that in terms of housing, we need to include words like

734
00:57:39,820 --> 00:57:47,440
intimidate and displace because these are minor, I think, and I think if landlords

735
00:57:47,440 --> 00:57:54,400
were just annoying or provoking tenants, which plays into the fact that our

736
00:57:54,400 --> 00:57:59,700
definitions of harassment are very skew, then I don't think we would be here

737
00:57:59,700 --> 00:58:08,280
counting after this or denence, intimidate or displace, evict, if you would.

738
00:58:09,460 --> 00:58:12,380
Any other comments for the definition of harassment? Yes.

739
00:58:13,560 --> 00:58:18,880
I think the definition of harassment in and of itself encompasses all of that.

740
00:58:19,040 --> 00:58:27,720
So I don't know that it's necessary to go above and beyond what's already there, because just the word harassment encompasses everything that you're saying there.

741
00:58:27,720 --> 00:58:36,720
So it sounds like as presented you're okay with it. I'm fine with it. Okay, so we have a opinion to add two terms and a opinion to leave as is. Yes

742
00:58:36,720 --> 00:58:44,140
I'll sorry. I don't know your name, but I will second you are called to change the wording because we need to be specific because the enforcement mechanism is civil penalties

743
00:58:44,140 --> 00:58:52,300
So a judge would have to go through and look at different types of conduct and so the more specificity we have actually the better the easier it would make a

744
00:58:53,060 --> 00:58:53,680
And

745
00:58:55,980 --> 00:59:04,580
I would disagree with that, because I think the broader it is probably the better it would be to catch something.

746
00:59:05,200 --> 00:59:05,380
Christian?

747
00:59:06,040 --> 00:59:06,660
Yeah.

748
00:59:07,620 --> 00:59:07,720
Is

749
00:59:21,800 --> 00:59:23,620
your mic on?

750
00:59:27,340 --> 00:59:29,800
So I'm hearing add a couple words.

751
00:59:30,020 --> 00:59:31,020
Keep as is.

752
00:59:33,220 --> 00:59:36,000
Yeah, I'd like to say also to, yeah, I want a second.

753
00:59:36,680 --> 00:59:41,180
I guess, because it's in the context of, you know,

754
00:59:41,300 --> 00:59:44,840
popular tenant, right, like, that's, that's what it's about to be specific.

755
00:59:45,400 --> 00:59:46,120
So they're all these guidelines.

756
00:59:47,020 --> 00:59:51,620
So I understand that it could be generalized, but I think this is specific to this policy.

757
00:59:51,820 --> 00:59:54,760
It's going to be within this order and to, it's not going to apply to other things, right?

758
00:59:55,200 --> 00:59:56,340
So I think it would be appropriate.

759
00:59:56,960 --> 00:59:57,900
Okay, sir.

760
00:59:58,440 --> 00:59:59,980
Okay, so I, I just want to come.

761
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:29,980
And on that, because in my mind, if I'm having a conversation with the tenant who's laid on to their rent, who isn't complying, maybe they're doing something dangerous, and I can't suggest or just inform him that he's going if the conduct doesn't stop, he doesn't pay their rent, they're going to be evicted. By my saying that, that that somehow harassment, and I think if I can reply to that comment, I think that's a very helpful comment, but I think that if we look at the whole of the

762
01:00:29,980 --> 01:00:34,160
ordinance, that comment goes to more or where it says condive prohibited.

763
01:00:34,660 --> 01:00:35,800
Yeah, that's enough for other section.

764
01:00:36,020 --> 01:00:41,100
I think if you look at the second page, where it says harassment is prohibited, and it has

765
01:00:41,100 --> 01:00:47,260
17 items that talk about different actions, considering that we have an hour left, maybe

766
01:00:47,260 --> 01:00:52,260
if we want to take 30 seconds to look at the whole ordinance and really focus your energy

767
01:00:52,260 --> 01:00:59,360
and time on the most significant things that are important to you, as far as what's in

768
01:00:59,360 --> 01:01:03,600
ordinance because we're going pretty slow we have an hour left and that's the great

769
01:01:03,600 --> 01:01:10,080
comment but I think that comment better than here probably goes is better suited to fix

770
01:01:10,080 --> 01:01:14,040
that section in the prohibition

771
01:01:16,760 --> 01:01:20,780
understood yeah so up ahead after definitions we do look at

772
01:01:20,780 --> 01:01:28,460
particular examples of harassment after that we talk about affirmative defense lawful

773
01:01:28,460 --> 01:01:33,080
convictions, enforcement impenalties, fees, citations,

774
01:01:33,520 --> 01:01:37,440
mediation outreach, and then other remedies

775
01:01:37,440 --> 01:01:41,420
impenalties, and survivability, and waiver.

776
01:01:42,680 --> 01:01:46,080
So that said, we have a definition of harassment.

777
01:01:46,180 --> 01:01:47,380
I've heard an addition of two words.

778
01:01:47,560 --> 01:01:49,160
I've heard leave as is.

779
01:01:49,460 --> 01:01:52,220
Are we okay moving on to the definition of housing services?

780
01:01:52,720 --> 01:01:53,840
Housing services.

781
01:01:54,260 --> 01:01:56,480
Services provided to a tenant.

782
01:01:56,480 --> 01:01:58,060
I'm so sorry.

783
01:01:59,220 --> 01:01:59,380
Okay.

784
01:02:00,020 --> 01:02:00,620
Thank you.

785
01:02:00,680 --> 01:02:01,540
Thank you, I didn't see.

786
01:02:02,780 --> 01:02:03,640
Housing Services.

787
01:02:04,140 --> 01:02:05,960
Services provided to a tenant.

788
01:02:06,200 --> 01:02:06,540
Wait, I'm going to pop.

789
01:02:06,660 --> 01:02:07,920
No, I was going to say bathroom break, but no.

790
01:02:08,820 --> 01:02:25,580
Services provided to a tenant by a property owner in connection with the use or occupancy of a rental unit, including but not limited to hot and cold water, heat, electricity, gas, refrigeration, elevator service,

791
01:02:25,580 --> 01:02:32,660
service, window coverings and screens, storage, kitchen, bathroom laundry facilities and

792
01:02:33,420 --> 01:02:38,820
privileges, refuse removal, furnishings, parking, effective waterproofing, and weather

793
01:02:38,820 --> 01:02:43,240
protection, and any other benefit, privilege or facility.

794
01:02:45,100 --> 01:02:53,180
So I have a huge issue with this one because if you look at the elevator service and any of

795
01:02:53,940 --> 01:03:01,340
the storage and screens. Some of those things if you're in a condo or a townhome are at the

796
01:03:01,340 --> 01:03:08,940
discretion of the HOA. That's a good point. Okay. So to hold an owner at to those is problematic.

797
01:03:09,900 --> 01:03:14,680
Okay. So and secondly, sorry question. Does the, does the,

798
01:03:14,680 --> 01:03:20,220
still for the first sentence service that provided by a property owner? I mean, I think that would

799
01:03:20,220 --> 01:03:26,760
But if not, how would you make it better like what would be the I would eliminate some of the services because

800
01:03:26,760 --> 01:03:34,240
You know some of some HOA's cover water sewer trash electric gas elevator service for sure

801
01:03:34,240 --> 01:03:40,200
Because also with an elephant with an elephant there's just a lot with that elevator service thing because it's the fire

802
01:03:40,200 --> 01:03:42,060
It Marshall and everything else

803
01:03:42,060 --> 01:03:49,880
Also, I put new window coverings in and they get destroyed and now they're not there is that part of harassment

804
01:03:50,220 --> 01:03:58,360
or and some we don't do that. So I think this is very broad strokes. I think it should

805
01:03:58,360 --> 01:04:06,040
say housing services services provided to the tenant per their lease. Okay. Is it harassment

806
01:04:06,040 --> 01:04:11,820
if it's taken out of their security deposit when they leave or you evict them? There's laws.

807
01:04:12,080 --> 01:04:18,420
Again, that's why you have to take pictures now. I mean, if we're back tracking there are unlawful

808
01:04:19,120 --> 01:04:21,020
that is a form of harassment.

809
01:04:22,320 --> 01:04:26,480
Okay, but that's an unlawful eviction that you can be.

810
01:04:26,720 --> 01:04:28,620
Thank you everyone for all of those comments.

811
01:04:29,440 --> 01:04:30,200
I've got a comment.

812
01:04:30,720 --> 01:04:34,580
And let us just finish really quickly typing and then we'll get on to the next comment.

813
01:04:34,740 --> 01:04:35,540
Thank you.

814
01:04:35,760 --> 01:04:40,520
So you said that how you wanted to be housing services defined as services provided to what's in it.

815
01:04:40,580 --> 01:04:42,820
By a property owner and connection with their lease agreement?

816
01:04:43,220 --> 01:04:44,740
Yeah, per their lease agreement.

817
01:04:46,660 --> 01:04:47,240
Thank you.

818
01:04:47,240 --> 01:04:50,460
Thank you for everybody's patience as we work together on this.

819
01:04:50,820 --> 01:04:56,040
I would take, I actually don't like that entire paragraph because a landlord already has

820
01:04:56,040 --> 01:05:00,200
a legal obligation to provide a habitable home that's well defined in the code.

821
01:05:00,700 --> 01:05:03,500
Why don't we just put the code in there?

822
01:05:03,820 --> 01:05:10,360
Because now we're per health and safety code, and the people say, yeah, because now we're

823
01:05:10,360 --> 01:05:14,200
creating two different standards for what a landlord is supposed to provide, which is just

824
01:05:14,200 --> 01:05:14,580
confusing.

825
01:05:17,080 --> 01:05:24,720
So we're going to, as, as a recommendation, do suggest deletion of definition and refer back to civil code.

826
01:05:27,830 --> 01:05:30,890
But I also think it needs to be the least to be.

827
01:05:30,950 --> 01:05:32,250
And the least, yes.

828
01:05:32,730 --> 01:05:36,750
Because certain things are in that washing machine and dryer, or,

829
01:05:36,810 --> 01:05:40,730
level, whatever, what, refrigerated, or, yeah.

830
01:05:41,010 --> 01:05:42,650
And just, that's not code.

831
01:05:43,230 --> 01:05:46,330
And just so you know, we're, we're, we're,

832
01:05:46,330 --> 01:05:52,490
we are conduits, right? We are going to take all the messaging, all the suggestions on both sides,

833
01:05:52,970 --> 01:05:56,710
or different opinions, I shouldn't say sides, we're all together in a circle,

834
01:05:57,250 --> 01:06:02,010
different opinions for our decision makers to decide. So we're going to really try and include

835
01:06:02,010 --> 01:06:06,510
everything as articulated here. Was there any other comments over there to do you have a comment?

836
01:06:12,070 --> 01:06:17,590
Whatever, I guess it would be, I mean I have to look it up.

837
01:06:25,070 --> 01:06:27,970
I mean, elevators understand their problematic.

838
01:06:28,310 --> 01:06:30,870
They might not be called out specifically in the rental agreement.

839
01:06:31,070 --> 01:06:36,070
They might not be required by code, but if the elevators are not working, it's a major problem.

840
01:06:38,170 --> 01:06:41,070
I fully acknowledge that it's a major problem.

841
01:06:42,090 --> 01:06:45,330
But typically, unless it's in a single family home,

842
01:06:45,410 --> 01:06:51,650
an elevator is not being serviced by the homeowner, or by the property owner.

843
01:06:51,650 --> 01:07:01,170
It's being serviced by the NHOA or something that the homeowner, the property owner does not have any control over.

844
01:07:02,070 --> 01:07:07,070
So if an elevator is not working in your apartment building or in your condo complex,

845
01:07:09,250 --> 01:07:13,950
for that to be harassment against the owner, it can't be.

846
01:07:14,030 --> 01:07:18,270
You can have harassment against the HOA all day long, but they are not in here.

847
01:07:18,270 --> 01:07:20,370
We acknowledge that 100%.

848
01:07:20,370 --> 01:07:22,250
Just one quick note about elevators,

849
01:07:22,590 --> 01:07:23,430
so as you mentioned,

850
01:07:23,710 --> 01:07:25,450
if it is a condominium complex,

851
01:07:25,610 --> 01:07:26,470
or a sound home complex,

852
01:07:26,890 --> 01:07:28,390
there is usually a homeowner association,

853
01:07:28,890 --> 01:07:30,610
but a traditional apartment complexes,

854
01:07:31,010 --> 01:07:32,590
they're not always a homeless owner association.

855
01:07:33,070 --> 01:07:35,830
And I think if you could pass the mic to our professor,

856
01:07:36,050 --> 01:07:36,970
he also has a comment.

857
01:07:39,530 --> 01:07:41,570
Can we just fix this by saying,

858
01:07:41,950 --> 01:07:44,410
by a property owner or homeowner association,

859
01:07:44,990 --> 01:07:46,750
because they're providing some of the services

860
01:07:46,750 --> 01:07:53,010
that in a single family home, the property owner would be providing anyway, and, you know,

861
01:07:53,290 --> 01:07:57,930
like tenants and property owners, H.O.A.s can be good and bad, and they can be monstrous

862
01:07:57,930 --> 01:08:02,750
to deal with, or they can be confusing, so maybe just sort of blanketing these protections,

863
01:08:03,230 --> 01:08:05,690
applying the protection to the H.O.A.s as well wouldn't be about that.

864
01:08:06,810 --> 01:08:16,690
So I disagree with that, because a lot of leases are written in a certain way that says

865
01:08:16,690 --> 01:08:25,590
And we are not held liable to what the HOA does, and that's just a slippery slope, right?

866
01:08:25,950 --> 01:08:31,250
No, I think we heard the feedback may be one more, and then we understand the issue,

867
01:08:31,450 --> 01:08:34,510
and we'll look at the habitability and compare.

868
01:08:35,130 --> 01:08:41,750
But again, I think the crux of the issues are going to be in the other section, more importantly,

869
01:08:42,570 --> 01:08:43,750
not definition so much.

870
01:08:46,750 --> 01:08:52,390
So they are important, but I expect we're going to spend a lot of time on the prohibition.

871
01:08:53,010 --> 01:08:57,750
So let's just walk through a scenario here just so I'm understanding as a housing provider.

872
01:08:58,190 --> 01:09:00,710
The way this is written and the way adding homeowners association.

873
01:09:02,190 --> 01:09:06,670
I own a place, it has an HOA elevator.

874
01:09:07,350 --> 01:09:13,730
The way this is written, right, if we were to leave this the way that it was, the tenant

875
01:09:13,730 --> 01:09:20,530
could come after me for, or does this say they could come after the homeowners association?

876
01:09:21,230 --> 01:09:28,730
That's the part that I'm not understanding, or both, because that's, in practicality,

877
01:09:29,710 --> 01:09:32,710
this is really about landlords and tenants.

878
01:09:32,710 --> 01:09:34,290
this is

879
01:09:42,450 --> 01:09:48,950
totally understand but I do think there's a distinction. I haven't seen any other

880
01:09:48,950 --> 01:09:53,210
language in any of the other cities that say homeowners association, that's all. I don't

881
01:09:53,210 --> 01:09:57,030
even know if that's defensible. Thank you.

882
01:09:57,330 --> 01:10:00,370
Okay, so I think Judy, did you have a comment?

883
01:10:05,860 --> 01:10:08,440
Okay, hold one second, we're going to get you a microphone. Thank you.

884
01:10:08,520 --> 01:10:14,840
Large apartment units do not have homeowners associations. They do have elevators that are under

885
01:10:14,840 --> 01:10:18,180
the operation of the owner of the apartment building.

886
01:10:18,920 --> 01:10:23,480
So it needs to be either the property owner or the H.O.A.,

887
01:10:23,480 --> 01:10:25,260
which effort the lease states.

888
01:10:27,060 --> 01:10:28,940
Thank you, Mr. Capriota, for giving her the mic.

889
01:10:30,480 --> 01:10:33,880
Okay, I think we've heard good information

890
01:10:33,880 --> 01:10:36,000
about the definition of housing services,

891
01:10:36,400 --> 01:10:37,620
how about lease agreement?

892
01:10:38,460 --> 01:10:41,580
Lease agreement, any agreement, oral or written or implied

893
01:10:41,580 --> 01:10:43,660
between a property owner and tenant

894
01:10:43,660 --> 01:10:48,480
for use or occupancy of a rental unit and for housing services.

895
01:10:51,160 --> 01:10:55,040
I just would like some clarification on what an implied lease is.

896
01:10:55,080 --> 01:10:58,200
If there is nothing and writing in any way.

897
01:11:02,810 --> 01:11:06,510
So it would be exactly what you said.

898
01:11:06,710 --> 01:11:11,010
A situation where there is a tenant maybe very, very long term,

899
01:11:11,970 --> 01:11:16,930
or maybe that had an agreement at some point with an owner,

900
01:11:16,930 --> 01:11:20,190
that's deceased and now the family has taken over.

901
01:11:20,410 --> 01:11:28,030
I mean, there's situations where someone pays rent to a landlord

902
01:11:28,030 --> 01:11:29,710
and they don't have a written agreement.

903
01:11:30,550 --> 01:11:35,650
Not the norm, not common, but if someone is living somewhere

904
01:11:35,650 --> 01:11:39,850
for more than three days and they're paying rent,

905
01:11:40,110 --> 01:11:42,550
that establishes a tendency under California law.

906
01:11:42,550 --> 01:11:55,890
So you mean like an automatic month to month tenancy by that month to month. Yeah. Yes, I think the word implied there is just such a slippery slope between what a

907
01:11:55,890 --> 01:11:59,270
Lisa agreement and for both parties what a

908
01:11:59,270 --> 01:12:03,790
Lisa agreement is what the terms of that Lisa is in

909
01:12:03,790 --> 01:12:07,850
Conjunction with these tenant protections implied as dangerous

910
01:12:08,730 --> 01:12:11,770
Your suggestion is really delete the word implied

911
01:12:15,010 --> 01:12:20,650
Yes, and that's been a cool as a comment, the one situation where we have seen in our

912
01:12:20,650 --> 01:12:24,170
actual community where we see in the middle and I have an oral written lease agreement,

913
01:12:24,610 --> 01:12:27,510
where people are doing weekly stays at local motels.

914
01:12:28,130 --> 01:12:31,870
And once you see the 28 day calendar period, then they automatically get tenorized,

915
01:12:32,010 --> 01:12:34,830
but they have nothing written in an agreement that says that or orally.

916
01:12:35,230 --> 01:12:38,830
But like I said, we didn't know that you would like the word implied to be removed from this particular

917
01:12:38,830 --> 01:12:39,310
definition.

918
01:12:42,740 --> 01:12:48,320
Don't I kind of disagree with that. I think it should stay in because those are the people the people that don't have

919
01:12:48,320 --> 01:12:50,380
Leases are the people that are going to need this

920
01:12:51,580 --> 01:13:00,500
So why would we take that out? It makes no sense. It's it's I rented it to my cousin's friend. Oh, it's fine

921
01:13:00,500 --> 01:13:01,500
Go ahead

922
01:13:02,280 --> 01:13:07,860
There are those are the ones that are getting in trouble. So I think implied is probably the most important word in there

923
01:13:08,500 --> 01:13:11,560
Okay, so we have I can that's the one word that is a sticky point

924
01:13:11,580 --> 01:13:15,060
and we have both options to consider moving forward.

925
01:13:15,800 --> 01:13:20,400
Next definition property owner, any person or entity entitled to receive rent

926
01:13:20,400 --> 01:13:24,420
for the use or occupancy of a rental unit, including owners,

927
01:13:24,580 --> 01:13:28,580
lesser's, sub-lessers, agents, representatives, or successors.

928
01:13:29,600 --> 01:13:33,720
Seems pretty straightforward. Okay. Moving on to rental unit.

929
01:13:34,180 --> 01:13:35,040
Oh, ma'am.

930
01:13:46,040 --> 01:13:49,260
Yeah. In our chapter description, we could talk all rental units,

931
01:13:49,260 --> 01:13:50,760
including single-family economies.

932
01:13:51,300 --> 01:13:58,840
Okay, so rental unit, any housing accommodation as defined in government code section, 1, 2, 9, 2, 7,

933
01:14:00,080 --> 01:14:04,860
including dueplexes, condominiums, and single-family homes in the city of San Buena, Ventura,

934
01:14:05,540 --> 01:14:08,800
that are rented or offered for rent for residential purposes.

935
01:14:09,740 --> 01:14:17,040
This includes associated land, apartment buildings, garage, and parking facilities, mobile homes,

936
01:14:17,040 --> 01:14:22,260
where the rent is paid for the structure and or the land and all related housing services

937
01:14:23,160 --> 01:14:26,020
and facilities. Any changes to this definition?

938
01:14:28,120 --> 01:14:29,540
I'm not seeing any immediate hands,

939
01:14:29,760 --> 01:14:36,280
so I'm going to sail on tenant. Any tenant, sub-tendant, leese, sub-leese, or other person,

940
01:14:36,340 --> 01:14:43,220
thank you, Judy, entitled to use or occupy a rental unit within the city. Any comments here?

941
01:14:43,940 --> 01:14:47,660
See, none moving on to probably the mediest of sections.

942
01:14:48,660 --> 01:14:51,840
Nine, ten, zero, four, zero, harassment is prohibited.

943
01:14:53,380 --> 01:14:54,220
First, paragraph.

944
01:14:55,220 --> 01:14:58,000
Tenant harassment is defined as a property owner's

945
01:14:58,000 --> 01:14:59,800
knowing and willful course of conduct.

946
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:08,240
Directed at a tenant that causes harm and serves no lawful purpose, including but not limited to.

947
01:15:08,380 --> 01:15:10,480
Do we have any, Mr. Sorada?

948
01:15:11,080 --> 01:15:20,180
So what I, I think what was very helpful in going through the Oxnard ordinance was kind of setting the tone for

949
01:15:22,800 --> 01:15:30,160
what rights landlords have already inherent and how

950
01:15:35,350 --> 01:15:37,230
many of these things I,

951
01:15:37,230 --> 01:15:44,430
have issues with, or many people will have issues with, because just

952
01:15:51,860 --> 01:15:52,700
keep going.

953
01:15:53,360 --> 01:15:54,200
I lost my trace.

954
01:15:54,320 --> 01:15:54,780
It's okay.

955
01:15:54,920 --> 01:15:56,260
We can come back to it.

956
01:15:56,440 --> 01:16:03,160
Do you mean, for example, that after lawful purpose to put parenthesis for example, and then

957
01:16:03,160 --> 01:16:07,860
putting example of common lawful purposes that landlords need to engage in?

958
01:16:08,820 --> 01:16:09,080
No.

959
01:16:09,460 --> 01:16:13,760
Many of these things that stand alone look like they could be harassment.

960
01:16:13,760 --> 01:16:21,260
So, let's give you an example, if somebody's late and I text them and say they're late, okay.

961
01:16:22,760 --> 01:16:27,040
Your late and you were jeopardizing your lease agreement by continuing to be late, blah, blah, blah, blah.

962
01:16:27,120 --> 01:16:30,420
That's a common thing, probably most people in here do something similar to that.

963
01:16:30,960 --> 01:16:34,020
As a standalone, that looks like that could be harassment.

964
01:16:34,200 --> 01:16:42,840
I think what owners are what the premise that I'm looking for from you is there are lawful behaviors that will

965
01:16:42,840 --> 01:16:48,060
that look, if you just read this raw, that look like they will be unlawful.

966
01:16:48,300 --> 01:16:53,020
And I think that's the premise that we need from you, is that if I'm doing something

967
01:16:53,020 --> 01:16:59,900
lawful, if I go to a tenant and tell them, hey, by the way, the owner's going to sell and you

968
01:16:59,900 --> 01:17:02,500
have 60 days notice, and I'm going to give you a month for an upfront.

969
01:17:02,860 --> 01:17:06,840
And by the way, if you leave earlier than 60 days, I'll give you an extra month rent.

970
01:17:07,520 --> 01:17:08,620
Okay, that's not harassment.

971
01:17:08,620 --> 01:17:23,640
And so what we need to do is have some clarity, otherwise it would be stuck in the mud on every one of these issues because what I do legally is not necessarily consider harassment because all most of the practitioners do the same thing on an ongoing basis.

972
01:17:23,820 --> 01:17:24,840
Thank you for saving me.

973
01:17:25,060 --> 01:17:36,660
No, I understand what you're saying what you're saying is that we, the things that you are doing for example, sending a text is beneficial to attend it before you have to give a three day notice.

974
01:17:36,660 --> 01:17:42,220
That's something that you don't want to be forced to stop because it actually benefits

975
01:17:42,220 --> 01:17:42,660
a tenant.

976
01:17:42,840 --> 01:17:46,580
For example, that's one of the examples that I can think of.

977
01:17:46,760 --> 01:17:52,800
Same thing with the, you know, the moving, you know, giving someone, instead of just

978
01:17:52,800 --> 01:17:57,820
a 60-day notice on that day, verbal and punishment before the 60-day starts because then

979
01:17:57,820 --> 01:17:59,840
they would have more time, which is a benefit.

980
01:17:59,960 --> 01:18:01,140
So I understand that.

981
01:18:01,140 --> 01:18:15,540
So, I don't know if that, if the first sentence needs to be addressed, I think it, I'm sorry, I was referring to the entirety of the, all of the, the 17 items.

982
01:18:16,260 --> 01:18:30,280
So then, I understand that we'll get feedback on those, but then we're trying to avoid is landlords from feeling that they cannot engage in behavior that actually serves to help tennis.

983
01:18:31,200 --> 01:18:34,420
I would like to offer this notifying someone

984
01:18:34,420 --> 01:18:36,840
reminding them about paying the rent.

985
01:18:37,560 --> 01:18:39,840
It serves a lawful purpose, right?

986
01:18:40,960 --> 01:18:44,280
So I don't have an issue with the statement based on

987
01:18:45,680 --> 01:18:48,760
because it's, hey, kind of reminder you have to pay your rent

988
01:18:48,760 --> 01:18:49,520
in three days.

989
01:18:50,120 --> 01:18:51,460
And even serving a three day notice,

990
01:18:51,720 --> 01:18:54,160
because it serves a lawful purpose,

991
01:18:54,780 --> 01:18:56,040
would not fall under a harassment.

992
01:18:56,580 --> 01:18:57,880
That's how I read that as well.

993
01:18:59,060 --> 01:19:00,740
Yes, that would.

994
01:19:02,460 --> 01:19:07,580
So, as long as we have that understanding, I don't want to get bogged down on all of these,

995
01:19:07,900 --> 01:19:08,620
but thank you.

996
01:19:09,260 --> 01:19:11,120
And I think, thank you, Mr. Daley, on.

997
01:19:11,660 --> 01:19:16,520
But with that first sentence of tenor has been as defined as, we really want to focus

998
01:19:16,520 --> 01:19:22,420
that causes harm and serve as serve, serve as no waffle purpose.

999
01:19:22,500 --> 01:19:23,720
Oh, my gosh, it's already late.

1000
01:19:23,720 --> 01:19:28,700
And so I think we'll keep it all 17 of those within mind so that it's not just out of the blue

1001
01:19:28,700 --> 01:19:33,740
You're entering someone's property without proper notice as long as you're serving the notice

1002
01:19:33,740 --> 01:19:38,540
And you're going in there without harm or for a lawful purpose or because it's part of the least

1003
01:19:38,540 --> 01:19:41,560
Or things like that that is not something that would be considered harassment

1004
01:19:42,980 --> 01:19:43,420
Thank

1005
01:20:10,940 --> 01:20:11,380
you

1006
01:20:11,380 --> 01:20:18,000
And I think an important to note in the statement is including but not limited to within that with the list below

1007
01:20:18,000 --> 01:20:28,380
So, looking at number one as a potential tenant harassment, reducing eliminating or charging

1008
01:20:28,380 --> 01:20:33,900
additionally for housing services provided in the lease contract or applicable law,

1009
01:20:34,120 --> 01:20:39,200
example parking, unless required by court order of applicable law.

1010
01:20:39,620 --> 01:20:40,920
Any changes to that?

1011
01:20:42,200 --> 01:20:44,100
I don't see any hands-up, sir.

1012
01:20:44,500 --> 01:20:46,140
I don't want to say I don't want to change it.

1013
01:20:46,140 --> 01:20:53,300
I just want to understand what law the laws and I aren't the laws already there.

1014
01:20:53,320 --> 01:20:55,940
That's a breach of contract, which you just said in that first one.

1015
01:20:56,340 --> 01:21:04,960
If they have a lease or a contract, and you go in and change it, you've now breached that contract with that tenant.

1016
01:21:05,360 --> 01:21:12,460
So why are we writing a rule that is covered in our and ordinances and laws that exist in our state already?

1017
01:21:12,460 --> 01:21:21,340
And again, I think the thought processes that, you know, you're following the laws and you're giving the notices or you're following the lease and things like that and that is fantastic.

1018
01:21:21,460 --> 01:21:37,420
And that's what, you know, we love to see whether we're tenants or property owners and things like that, but there are those who may not even be aware of the laws that they have to get proper notice for things like that or that there's a change to the lease, which means that there could be additional fees or what,

1019
01:21:37,420 --> 01:21:42,940
those who are not aware or those who are, quote unquote, I know, it's said all the time,

1020
01:21:43,100 --> 01:21:48,400
but the bad apples, and we really do appreciate the property owners in the city because

1021
01:21:48,400 --> 01:21:52,120
there are tons of tenants and things like that, but I think we're going into this with

1022
01:21:52,120 --> 01:21:59,620
those who are either unaware or they are just truthfully trying to harass a tenant or there

1023
01:21:59,620 --> 01:22:03,420
is some drastic change to it that they just didn't understand.

1024
01:22:04,520 --> 01:22:07,980
But once again, what changes, you're going to write this rule.

1025
01:22:08,060 --> 01:22:11,680
You're going to publish this rule, they already exist, right?

1026
01:22:11,680 --> 01:22:14,140
This is a breach of contract, simple and pretty simple.

1027
01:22:14,900 --> 01:22:17,440
So if the person that's renting this tenant doesn't know

1028
01:22:17,440 --> 01:22:20,940
that the breach of contract, or the person that's created the lease

1029
01:22:20,940 --> 01:22:23,160
and had its line is now breach of contract.

1030
01:22:23,160 --> 01:22:24,940
And it doesn't understand that we're breaching a contract.

1031
01:22:26,040 --> 01:22:30,220
How is this additional ordinance by the city?

1032
01:22:30,220 --> 01:22:36,440
at another level of government, can a manage that relationship between two people that one shouldn't

1033
01:22:36,440 --> 01:22:41,920
be in pro-managing property and other probably shouldn't be paying for a place to live in.

1034
01:22:42,140 --> 01:22:47,880
They don't understand what rules guide their life and the one that shouldn't be renting property

1035
01:22:47,880 --> 01:22:50,960
because they're not smart enough to figure it out.

1036
01:22:51,400 --> 01:22:54,040
You just write an ordinance on top of a law.

1037
01:22:55,060 --> 01:22:57,340
It sounds, I'm preaching, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

1038
01:22:57,380 --> 01:22:58,080
No, you're okay.

1039
01:22:58,400 --> 01:22:58,620
It's okay.

1040
01:22:58,620 --> 01:23:11,760
This is redundant to so many laws, I mean a couple of these, some of these makes some sense, some clarity to the way our city would like to see the renter rental relationship appear.

1041
01:23:12,380 --> 01:23:21,640
But a lot of it's just restating stuff on another layer of laws that we're going to get bogged down and not be able to figure out in a corridor law.

1042
01:23:21,640 --> 01:23:28,720
So I'm going to take that your recommendation for number one is made we deleted right doesn't need to be there.

1043
01:23:30,340 --> 01:23:32,720
Okay, so we want to hear that.

1044
01:23:33,320 --> 01:23:39,020
But as far as to why something would be in here is to provide a remedy for it.

1045
01:23:39,180 --> 01:23:48,440
So then the remedy, if it's not in here, the remedy is sue them and superior port for a breach of contract versus if it's in here then you can use the remedies in the ordinance.

1046
01:23:48,440 --> 01:23:54,400
I think that's that's why they're in there, but if your recommendation is to delete it, then you know, we want to hear that.

1047
01:23:54,680 --> 01:23:57,620
Thank you Monica for that. Thank you for your comment. Don.

1048
01:23:58,780 --> 01:24:05,580
I just want to piggyback on that. It is a law. So why wouldn't we just reiterate it here? I agree that it should stay in.

1049
01:24:05,720 --> 01:24:08,540
It adds clarity to what to what's going on.

1050
01:24:09,900 --> 01:24:13,340
So the biggest issue to just answer your question is.

1051
01:24:13,980 --> 01:24:23,280
Having a local ordinance, the only reason for a local ordinance is to inflict civil penalties on those that don't understand and follow.

1052
01:24:23,520 --> 01:24:28,360
You can't be ignorant and do things to tenets without paying a price.

1053
01:24:28,660 --> 01:24:32,380
So the civil penalties is the only reason for this ordinance.

1054
01:24:32,560 --> 01:24:35,300
It is redundant. Everything we're going to read here is redundant.

1055
01:24:35,920 --> 01:24:37,560
I'm not going to disagree with that.

1056
01:24:37,560 --> 01:24:42,600
But the only reason for the ordinance is for the civil penalties for those that are not acting

1057
01:24:42,600 --> 01:24:43,140
appropriately.

1058
01:24:43,480 --> 01:24:44,300
Thank you, Mr. Sarota.

1059
01:24:45,300 --> 01:24:57,000
Okay, I think we're good with number one, number two, failing to perform timely repairs

1060
01:24:57,000 --> 01:25:06,680
and maintenance required, or what, man, I think best practices need to be clarified because

1061
01:25:06,680 --> 01:25:12,380
that could vary from culture to culture person to person.

1062
01:25:15,360 --> 01:25:17,880
So just for the record for reading for live stream,

1063
01:25:18,060 --> 01:25:20,280
failing to perform time to repairs and maintenance required

1064
01:25:20,280 --> 01:25:22,520
by housing, health, or safety laws,

1065
01:25:22,740 --> 01:25:25,620
or feeling to follow best practices to limit exposure

1066
01:25:25,620 --> 01:25:29,460
to noise, dust, lead, as bestos, or other harmful substances.

1067
01:25:30,420 --> 01:25:35,580
What about the word industry practices in the industry?

1068
01:25:35,580 --> 01:25:40,660
I mean, do you have an alternate suggestion, or yeah, do you have an alternate suggestion?

1069
01:25:42,400 --> 01:25:47,660
I think that it needs to be something that you can point to the facts and say this is an industry

1070
01:25:47,660 --> 01:25:53,300
standard or if you can't do that then it's just up to interpretation.

1071
01:26:00,290 --> 01:26:09,790
I have a question if we were to use the, oh sorry, oh. As far as the timely repairs we just had

1072
01:26:09,790 --> 01:26:14,310
issue where we needed to get something repaired, we couldn't get a plumber over the weekend

1073
01:26:14,310 --> 01:26:15,450
of the three-day holiday.

1074
01:26:17,410 --> 01:26:19,610
So is that a standard practice?

1075
01:26:19,890 --> 01:26:24,370
Is that a reasonable scenario where I took them the better part of a week and we went

1076
01:26:24,370 --> 01:26:25,450
through about four different plumber?

1077
01:26:27,110 --> 01:26:32,610
I think that would come to, was the plumbing issue to where it was like a man or a habitability,

1078
01:26:32,850 --> 01:26:33,910
like it was, no.

1079
01:26:34,010 --> 01:26:35,210
We had a broken sewer line.

1080
01:26:35,210 --> 01:26:38,530
And so the back of us were no longer used.

1081
01:26:39,230 --> 01:26:43,290
We could, obviously they were put in a hotel because it couldn't flesh the toilet.

1082
01:26:43,810 --> 01:26:45,930
But what is considered a timely repair?

1083
01:26:47,050 --> 01:26:47,810
So I have a question.

1084
01:26:48,210 --> 01:26:52,490
Would you suggest adding the word reasonably before the word timely?

1085
01:26:53,390 --> 01:26:55,970
I was going to suggest maybe remove the word timely.

1086
01:26:57,550 --> 01:27:01,390
Because if it's already required by housing health and safety laws,

1087
01:27:02,130 --> 01:27:04,550
then timely is already a,

1088
01:27:06,010 --> 01:27:17,630
Can we carve out about things outside of the landlord's control, like supply chain issues, labor permits from the city that aren't issued?

1089
01:27:28,210 --> 01:27:29,730
A lot of us totally out of your control.

1090
01:27:34,940 --> 01:27:41,040
limit to noise. I mean, when you're jackhammering for the sewer, you know, nobody's going to be happy about this.

1091
01:27:41,900 --> 01:27:47,180
So a lot of these best practices, I don't know how the limit exposure to noise does.

1092
01:27:48,040 --> 01:27:52,460
You know, I mean, it's messy. You cut the concrete, it's messy, everybody's going to get it.

1093
01:27:54,000 --> 01:28:00,480
So maybe a caveat with the exception of construction or home improvement projects or something.

1094
01:28:02,950 --> 01:28:05,290
So we have a repair project.

1095
01:28:06,090 --> 01:28:06,530
Repair projects.

1096
01:28:08,050 --> 01:28:08,490
Right.

1097
01:28:10,050 --> 01:28:10,270
Okay.

1098
01:28:24,960 --> 01:28:25,260
Right.

1099
01:28:27,320 --> 01:28:27,560
Yeah.

1100
01:28:28,320 --> 01:28:29,180
I'm so sorry.

1101
01:28:29,320 --> 01:28:31,860
So my question is.

1102
01:28:32,260 --> 01:28:33,140
Based on what I'm hearing.

1103
01:28:33,760 --> 01:28:34,920
Because there's different scope.

1104
01:28:35,060 --> 01:28:36,180
Different work that needs to be done.

1105
01:28:36,420 --> 01:28:36,760
Like plumbing.

1106
01:28:37,360 --> 01:28:38,080
A specialist removal.

1107
01:28:38,540 --> 01:28:39,000
So it's time.

1108
01:28:39,400 --> 01:28:40,940
So I think tell me it's important to keep.

1109
01:28:41,720 --> 01:28:43,200
Because are we basing it off?

1110
01:28:43,240 --> 01:28:44,080
What are experts saying?

1111
01:28:44,200 --> 01:28:45,440
It will take to complete a project.

1112
01:28:45,440 --> 01:28:50,480
computer innovation or complete a model, so maybe a plumbing issue can take three weeks

1113
01:28:50,480 --> 01:28:55,460
or maybe, you know, you know, integrity of the building can take four months, or be

1114
01:28:55,460 --> 01:29:00,900
basing it off what experts say, because I think there doesn't to be a time frame for tenants to know

1115
01:29:00,900 --> 01:29:04,880
when they're moving in or what the situation's going to be for them.

1116
01:29:05,240 --> 01:29:07,220
Okay. So,

1117
01:29:12,480 --> 01:29:16,140
just a quick story for a point of reference, just a quickie.

1118
01:29:16,140 --> 01:29:24,980
I had a property owner that it took their, they needed to get their energy, they had to do a significant remodel.

1119
01:29:26,040 --> 01:29:29,160
It took, the project was done in December of 2024.

1120
01:29:30,020 --> 01:29:32,080
They just got that meter energized.

1121
01:29:34,540 --> 01:29:35,800
So it took that long.

1122
01:29:36,040 --> 01:29:37,420
Eight months, here we are in December.

1123
01:29:38,020 --> 01:29:39,800
That's how long it took to get that meter energy.

1124
01:29:39,960 --> 01:29:44,660
It's just, you know, I know you guys know, but out of our control.

1125
01:29:45,440 --> 01:29:53,760
If I ever come in, I feel number two may be possible if we look at the civil code to maybe align with state law.

1126
01:29:56,780 --> 01:29:59,900
So I have a question. Let's just walk through a scenario.

1127
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:15,520
So, I have an issue with a water leak, it's in a condo association. Tenets in the property, we determine that the issue is the HOA, but it's going to, they don't have the leak detection company to come out.

1128
01:30:15,800 --> 01:30:23,020
Or even if let's just say it's my owner, I still have to get a leak detection company to come out. Those kinds of things take time to negotiate.

1129
01:30:23,960 --> 01:30:27,320
So, the tenets upset, they call the city, what's going to happen?

1130
01:30:27,320 --> 01:30:32,840
What I want to know is the practicality of who's going to do this is it's staff who's going to make the determination

1131
01:30:33,480 --> 01:30:38,740
To take it to the next level because I have to tell you my concern in here is not what's written

1132
01:30:38,740 --> 01:30:44,400
My concern is what's going to happen after and so what would be very helpful for this group is to know

1133
01:30:44,980 --> 01:30:49,540
Just in practical use I call the city and I say I don't have water

1134
01:30:49,540 --> 01:30:55,500
I don't know what the guys doing please walk us through this scenario and kind of kind of give me and I give us all an

1135
01:30:55,500 --> 01:30:59,760
ideas to what's going to happen with that issue? Who's going to determine what?

1136
01:31:00,220 --> 01:31:03,940
Well, my understanding is that with our expanded contract with the housing rights center,

1137
01:31:04,120 --> 01:31:08,840
there will be in person hours somewhere in City Hall.

1138
01:31:09,420 --> 01:31:09,540
Okay.

1139
01:31:10,160 --> 01:31:11,540
And then so yes.

1140
01:31:12,080 --> 01:31:12,500
Yes.

1141
01:31:12,500 --> 01:31:22,540
And then so they will come and as far as what the scope of work of the housing center provides,

1142
01:31:22,540 --> 01:31:29,400
It could be, I don't know if they're going to do a phone call, do a letter, you know,

1143
01:31:29,960 --> 01:31:34,560
their housing rights center is not providing direct representation to attendance,

1144
01:31:34,840 --> 01:31:35,560
as far as I'm aware.

1145
01:31:36,200 --> 01:31:41,960
I think what they provide is comfortable in advice and mediation services.

1146
01:31:43,180 --> 01:31:49,280
So as far as what the city is providing through the housing rights center, I think that's

1147
01:31:49,280 --> 01:31:49,940
the extent of it.

1148
01:31:49,940 --> 01:32:06,820
Yeah, so essentially what's going to happen is that it's not like a situation where, if, you know, a 10 it comes in and they say, well, you know, I'm being harassed by my, by my housing provider, there you go, it's not like we're going to say, okay, well, shame on housing provider ABC management for doing that, those types of complaints have to be investigated and they have to be substantiated.

1149
01:32:07,180 --> 01:32:08,680
So that's what I'm asking you.

1150
01:32:09,240 --> 01:32:09,260
Yes.

1151
01:32:09,300 --> 01:32:14,660
Is specifically, do we have a process? What does that look like? Do we have intake forms? How?

1152
01:32:14,660 --> 01:32:23,540
because we want to make it look, I want this to be real, and I want it, those that are not doing the right thing,

1153
01:32:23,860 --> 01:32:30,200
but I also know the other side of that. I'm waiting for some service provider that I have no control over,

1154
01:32:30,640 --> 01:32:34,840
and I know that people will say, aha, I can go to the city.

1155
01:32:36,300 --> 01:32:37,920
So, yeah, go ahead, Matt.

1156
01:32:37,920 --> 01:32:43,640
That's okay. I just want to make sure that there's going to be some kind of an intake and not not a personal

1157
01:32:46,400 --> 01:32:52,980
Some wow you're really screwed from city staff or someone else that doesn't know. No, because yeah

1158
01:32:52,980 --> 01:32:56,880
Cut that thing out of the day the housing rights center is not there to take size. They're a neutral party

1159
01:32:56,880 --> 01:33:01,580
So there is an actual intake process. What if you do a via phone via email via in person?

1160
01:33:01,580 --> 01:33:05,700
we will have them here twice a week once the contract is executed, and that they'll do it and

1161
01:33:05,700 --> 01:33:09,740
take, they'll assess the matter, and typically what has happened in the past, even for

1162
01:33:09,740 --> 01:33:13,540
you know, some fair housing complaints, they actually reach out to the housing provider first

1163
01:33:13,540 --> 01:33:17,980
because it's always going to be a difference of opinion. You may say, well, I had a

1164
01:33:17,980 --> 01:33:21,060
water lead, they never just might water lead, I had a working bathroom three months. You're like,

1165
01:33:21,200 --> 01:33:23,780
why haven't you given a 24 hour notice, they have my primary command to do the address of

1166
01:33:23,780 --> 01:33:27,660
water lead, they have a let me in. So you have to do an investigation to substantiate whatever

1167
01:33:27,660 --> 01:33:32,820
obligation actually is. Okay, so it isn't going to be someone's opinion when they call

1168
01:33:32,820 --> 01:33:37,840
and this is not on anyone here. It isn't going to be, while that happened to be once

1169
01:33:37,840 --> 01:33:43,240
and staff is going to answer that question directly. Okay, so thank you. That helps a

1170
01:33:46,060 --> 01:33:46,260
lot.

1171
01:33:47,520 --> 01:33:55,200
Okay, the only thing I don't see in there is a little bit of what Jorge addressed with failing

1172
01:33:55,200 --> 01:34:01,340
to perform timely repairs, and he had a delay because of the holidays, but I heard him say,

1173
01:34:01,500 --> 01:34:06,680
and I could be wrong, but I heard him say, well, of course I put him in a hotel. So there's

1174
01:34:06,680 --> 01:34:15,340
no reasonable accommodation there, so it just says, if Jorge didn't fix it, then he's harassing

1175
01:34:15,340 --> 01:34:23,660
them, but it doesn't take into account that he made some accommodation for them. So I was just wanting

1176
01:34:23,660 --> 01:34:27,400
to see if that language might a reasonable accommodation

1177
01:34:27,920 --> 01:34:29,500
might be added in there?

1178
01:34:29,760 --> 01:34:30,440
I don't know.

1179
01:34:35,580 --> 01:34:38,700
I'm wondering if we could, what the issue seems to be

1180
01:34:38,700 --> 01:34:42,260
sort of intent is unclear in the statute

1181
01:34:42,260 --> 01:34:45,460
and that if a tenant says, hey, my water doesn't work,

1182
01:34:45,820 --> 01:34:47,160
the landlord says, you know, probably,

1183
01:34:47,360 --> 01:34:48,680
and I just says, okay, we'll get this fixed.

1184
01:34:48,840 --> 01:34:49,860
They call a plumber, they're like, hey, sorry,

1185
01:34:49,860 --> 01:34:51,160
I can't get a plumber right here.

1186
01:34:51,580 --> 01:34:54,100
A judge isn't gonna look at that and say,

1187
01:34:55,440 --> 01:35:05,200
The housing provider is on the hook for a $5,000 fine, all right, so and but but thinking about intent actually makes me think that the property owners knowing and willful course of conduct

1188
01:35:05,700 --> 01:35:18,180
Also needs to include some standard of negligence because civil negligence is a legal standard that we can use and if I like I have never met the person who owns my building, but I know the property manager she's lovely texture all the time

1189
01:35:18,180 --> 01:35:22,440
If I text her and say, hey, there's an issue, roof is leaking.

1190
01:35:22,600 --> 01:35:25,060
She says, OK, I'll tell the owner about it.

1191
01:35:25,340 --> 01:35:27,780
And then, come back a day later, I can't get in touch with this person

1192
01:35:27,780 --> 01:35:28,560
for whatever reason.

1193
01:35:29,080 --> 01:35:32,000
It might raise rise to a level of negligence.

1194
01:35:32,320 --> 01:35:34,080
If some or especially with corporate landlords

1195
01:35:34,780 --> 01:35:38,140
where you call a phone service and you can't get anybody

1196
01:35:38,140 --> 01:35:41,120
and there's some sort of, you get lost in the bureaucracy.

1197
01:35:41,620 --> 01:35:43,440
So we might want, I was just adding something

1198
01:35:43,440 --> 01:35:46,000
about negligence, but also clarifying intent

1199
01:35:46,000 --> 01:35:51,520
that, like, housing provider who, you know, I think it's pretty well covered under knowing

1200
01:35:51,520 --> 01:35:56,060
in willful, meaning if you intend to help and fix the thing you're not liable, but

1201
01:35:56,060 --> 01:35:57,740
there may be a way to sort of tweak that a little.

1202
01:36:01,400 --> 01:36:05,520
Maybe some references that I think every single property owner has a right to do emergency

1203
01:36:05,520 --> 01:36:10,760
repairs that they can't get a hold of their client in their contracts, in my wrong.

1204
01:36:11,620 --> 01:36:15,600
When you have a contract with a land of housing provider you have the right to do emergency,

1205
01:36:17,950 --> 01:36:19,670
so they already have those already in there.

1206
01:36:19,670 --> 01:36:22,310
So, no, what I'm talking about is like,

1207
01:36:22,550 --> 01:36:24,910
someone, a housing provider who is just unaccessible

1208
01:36:24,910 --> 01:36:27,550
to the extent that it constitutes civil negligence.

1209
01:36:28,690 --> 01:36:30,290
That, that, that should also be include,

1210
01:36:30,290 --> 01:36:31,750
because if you say knowing in the willful,

1211
01:36:31,750 --> 01:36:34,830
that's a higher legal bar in a, in a court, right?

1212
01:36:35,030 --> 01:36:37,550
And the only enforcement mechanism is city mediation

1213
01:36:37,550 --> 01:36:39,310
or civil courts.

1214
01:36:39,310 --> 01:36:42,230
And the civil courts use a negligent standard.

1215
01:36:42,410 --> 01:36:45,410
And so, if a housing provider can't be reached

1216
01:36:46,390 --> 01:36:49,010
and is causing some, one of these harms

1217
01:36:49,010 --> 01:36:54,130
would make the unit a livable, that should also come. I would argue that should also come

1218
01:36:54,130 --> 01:36:59,970
to the harassment. But I think your direct question goes back to number two fail to perform

1219
01:36:59,970 --> 01:37:08,010
timely repairs. Right? That's the intent part, right? You as a housing provider are not providing

1220
01:37:08,010 --> 01:37:14,390
repairs. If you are, if you're in a court of law and a judge says, did you call the plumber and

1221
01:37:14,390 --> 01:37:20,250
say yes, you are not civilly liable for failing to perform repairs because you try to do it,

1222
01:37:20,290 --> 01:37:21,670
but you can't actually do it, right?

1223
01:37:21,790 --> 01:37:26,410
Or there's a leak in the roof, the judge doesn't expect you to go up on the roof to do it.

1224
01:37:26,670 --> 01:37:30,650
If you say, no, I didn't really care, you don't want to, that's an intense standard, right?

1225
01:37:31,130 --> 01:37:33,610
Or if you say yes, I did, it just took longer than we wanted.

1226
01:37:33,910 --> 01:37:37,330
I provided these reasonable accommodations, then you're not liable for it, that's not her

1227
01:37:37,330 --> 01:37:37,610
harassment.

1228
01:37:39,340 --> 01:37:45,610
So, we're taking on the notes, we're hearing everyone just a reminder, we have about

1229
01:37:47,680 --> 01:37:54,220
22 minutes left and remember, reading comment very valuable, very important, red line it.

1230
01:37:54,960 --> 01:38:02,470
But we are on number two of, and we haven't gone to enforcement yet, which I would really like to hear about.

1231
01:38:12,690 --> 01:38:15,530
So, we can stay until nine.

1232
01:38:17,110 --> 01:38:17,230
Okay.

1233
01:38:18,310 --> 01:38:33,530
So, if we have to relieve, again, I think that as a tenant, I am responsible, you know, if I can't get all of my landlord for whatever reason, I'm also, I'm also, I also have the responsibility to preserve the property.

1234
01:38:34,150 --> 01:38:49,610
And I've actually, and I will build them or withhold it from my rent, it's already in the least agreement where you have the ability of getting it to recover, or not pay my rent for those items, and that's lawfully in my lease.

1235
01:38:50,570 --> 01:38:57,730
So I would just, it's not getting to the weeds of this, my recommendation is failing to perform the repairs.

1236
01:38:57,730 --> 01:39:02,310
And as far as the timely scenario, what is the definition of timely?

1237
01:39:04,550 --> 01:39:10,810
And I do think that we do specifically state required by housing health and safety laws.

1238
01:39:11,690 --> 01:39:19,570
And it seems that for emergency repairs that does say when it where it does lack habitability,

1239
01:39:19,750 --> 01:39:25,130
it would be typically within 24 to 72 hours and then for non-regent repairs within 30 days.

1240
01:39:25,130 --> 01:39:30,710
And I think the addition of civil negligence actually kind of helps bridge the timeliness, right?

1241
01:39:30,810 --> 01:39:36,950
If you're with intent not wanting to do it, or a property owner doesn't want to do the repair, that's obviously negligent.

1242
01:39:37,210 --> 01:39:45,030
If you want to do the repair camp because so-and-so's at a town, you can't get a contractor, the tenant was unable to help you in to fix the window.

1243
01:39:45,410 --> 01:39:49,250
That obviously is not civil, you know, negligence.

1244
01:39:52,470 --> 01:39:57,190
What if, what if my housing provider passes away and we happen to

1245
01:39:57,190 --> 01:40:01,350
the Chairman who the, the rightful owners, what, what is, what is that open up?

1246
01:40:01,690 --> 01:40:03,230
I would think that would be within your lease agreement.

1247
01:40:04,090 --> 01:40:04,230
Right.

1248
01:40:04,270 --> 01:40:09,710
But the thing is that if, if, if, if it, I, again, I, I, how can we hold the

1249
01:40:09,710 --> 01:40:14,010
estate of someone negligent, you know, negligent for something that was

1250
01:40:14,010 --> 01:40:14,710
out of their control?

1251
01:40:15,630 --> 01:40:21,150
I think let's make a note about potential passage of property owner and

1252
01:40:21,150 --> 01:40:23,630
address and see what another way we can address that.

1253
01:40:25,510 --> 01:40:29,370
And then we can do number three.

1254
01:40:30,090 --> 01:40:33,250
OK, hold on, that's OK.

1255
01:40:44,280 --> 01:40:45,140
All right, number three.

1256
01:40:45,320 --> 01:40:48,900
Abusing the right of access under California Civil Code

1257
01:40:48,900 --> 01:40:53,280
Section 1954, including photographing

1258
01:40:53,280 --> 01:40:55,600
or recording parts of a unit unrelated

1259
01:40:55,600 --> 01:40:57,120
to the reason for entry.

1260
01:41:02,750 --> 01:41:05,670
Abusing the right of access, do we have a civil code

1261
01:41:05,670 --> 01:41:06,950
section 1954?

1262
01:41:06,950 --> 01:41:15,630
California Civil Code Section 1954 outlines the landlords limited right to enter attendance rental unit requiring proper notice except in an emergencies.

1263
01:41:16,310 --> 01:41:21,810
Landlords may enter for necessary repairs, agreed upon services to exhibit the unit or when a tenant has a ban in the property.

1264
01:41:22,330 --> 01:41:27,870
For most entries at 24 hour written notice specifying the date and time and purpose of entry is required.

1265
01:41:28,510 --> 01:41:33,650
So again, I think this one is that we're really hoping that you refer to California Civil Code.

1266
01:41:37,770 --> 01:41:41,770
So, Leona, Kirk, could be if I'm wrong, but one example is the toilet's not working.

1267
01:41:41,990 --> 01:41:54,050
You go in there to inspect the toilet and need to take a photo of a part and then you decide by the way I'm going to go check in the bedroom and in the kitchen and this area and take photographs of that as well.

1268
01:41:54,390 --> 01:41:55,110
Is that an example?

1269
01:41:55,730 --> 01:42:05,450
So, one of the recent phone calls that we received that we referred to the Individuals of the Housing Rights Center was that they were alleging that their property owner was coming in saying that they were going to do agreed upon repairs.

1270
01:42:05,450 --> 01:42:09,750
gave them 24 hour notice every other day for two weeks, but did not do a single repair.

1271
01:42:10,450 --> 01:42:14,070
That was one of the things that we have faced, but if you have a recommendation on how

1272
01:42:14,070 --> 01:42:17,090
we can rephrase it to make it a little bit more clear, that would be extremely helpful.

1273
01:42:28,630 --> 01:42:35,450
So it does, the cell code does outline that there's limited right to enter and then lists

1274
01:42:35,450 --> 01:42:37,730
the reasoning of rights to enter.

1275
01:42:37,730 --> 01:42:43,290
So, I think anything that is not listed under California Civil Code, Section 1954.

1276
01:42:48,770 --> 01:42:54,030
So, how about are you suggest you may be entering in violation of the Civil Code?

1277
01:42:54,450 --> 01:42:57,010
Well, I think it's a slippery slope. What is it, music?

1278
01:42:57,290 --> 01:43:05,390
What if the landlord has a right access one day and they make something up that is within their rights the next day and the next day?

1279
01:43:05,390 --> 01:43:05,550
Right?

1280
01:43:05,910 --> 01:43:09,930
A lot of people say that's abuse, but if it's legally their right to access the property,

1281
01:43:10,250 --> 01:43:10,950
then that's not it.

1282
01:43:11,070 --> 01:43:12,910
It's just, it's slippery.

1283
01:43:13,830 --> 01:43:19,470
If you're acting outside of the limitations that the law states, which we just went over,

1284
01:43:20,330 --> 01:43:24,610
then, um, I think that covers it.

1285
01:43:24,810 --> 01:43:29,630
Could we just say, like, acting outside of the law or outside of the limitations?

1286
01:43:35,220 --> 01:43:35,820
Yes.

1287
01:43:36,520 --> 01:43:40,780
Let's say we have one quick note on that.

1288
01:43:40,780 --> 01:43:45,300
So if I were to enter an apartment of somebody because there was a flood in the bathroom,

1289
01:43:45,800 --> 01:43:50,380
but then I observe a total nuisance and lack of care of the property in the kitchen,

1290
01:43:50,380 --> 01:43:55,800
and I take a picture of that while I'm in there, can I be held liable for taking a photograph

1291
01:43:55,800 --> 01:44:02,960
that was not my intent to purpose, but I observed dog damage or something else that's a major breach of contract.

1292
01:44:02,960 --> 01:44:11,720
I wouldn't be able to, so usually within leases it does state that most of the tenant has

1293
01:44:11,720 --> 01:44:18,000
to keep the leaseable property habitable, and usually outlines what damaging is cleanliness

1294
01:44:18,000 --> 01:44:18,920
and things like that.

1295
01:44:19,320 --> 01:44:24,160
So if it's within the lease, then I think that's something that I'm saying, if I'm there

1296
01:44:24,160 --> 01:44:28,920
for this purpose, but I observe a major concern over here that I could be liable for taking

1297
01:44:28,920 --> 01:44:32,780
a photo of this to document it so that I can then properly address it.

1298
01:44:32,780 --> 01:44:37,240
So I can't take that photo, it would be a violation of this ordinance.

1299
01:44:37,440 --> 01:44:45,320
I think we go back to the first sentence, which it has to serve the conduct we have to

1300
01:44:45,320 --> 01:44:48,400
serve to cause harm and serve no local purpose.

1301
01:44:49,020 --> 01:44:52,980
So if the intent or the intent of the drug...

1302
01:45:29,040 --> 01:45:36,120
Security deposits. Again, I mean, like, begs this so that you can just kind of take it all right, if those things arise.

1303
01:45:39,580 --> 01:45:45,920
You know, I think that habitability and how we define it is vague. Everything's vague, right?

1304
01:45:48,590 --> 01:45:53,130
So, so we can go through what ifs all my long and split hairs or we could keep going.

1305
01:45:53,130 --> 01:46:00,430
So I don't know if it helps to just to point out that each of the one through nine on this page

1306
01:46:00,430 --> 01:46:06,150
has to be done for the purpose that has to cause harm and serve no level purpose.

1307
01:46:06,810 --> 01:46:08,230
So they're not standalone.

1308
01:46:10,570 --> 01:46:15,450
I mean, these are more like specific examples of behavior prohibited.

1309
01:46:17,390 --> 01:46:21,990
What is prohibited is something that causes harm and chose no level purpose.

1310
01:46:21,990 --> 01:46:24,110
And I think that addresses your concern.

1311
01:46:24,230 --> 01:46:25,930
If you notice that the oven's not working,

1312
01:46:26,030 --> 01:46:27,810
we're in your there for something else,

1313
01:46:28,470 --> 01:46:31,450
that's a lawful purpose to inspect, take a photo

1314
01:46:31,450 --> 01:46:35,370
for the part you need, and then do as you need to do

1315
01:46:35,370 --> 01:46:36,570
as a per contract.

1316
01:46:37,630 --> 01:46:41,850
And maybe what we need is a little elaboration,

1317
01:46:42,610 --> 01:46:47,100
or examples of lawful purpose activity, especially

1318
01:46:47,100 --> 01:46:49,480
as we do.

1319
01:46:49,820 --> 01:46:51,680
I mean, we'll think about this, yeah.

1320
01:46:54,520 --> 01:46:57,760
So, I can clarify this for people.

1321
01:46:58,380 --> 01:47:02,400
Those instances that you guys have put forward, those are in plain view.

1322
01:47:02,500 --> 01:47:04,640
They're not being hidden from you while you're in the building.

1323
01:47:05,080 --> 01:47:11,140
If a cop sees something, if a cop sees something, if a cop sees something, if a cop sees something,

1324
01:47:13,080 --> 01:47:17,480
if a cop sees something illegal and you're, say, looks in your car and sees something

1325
01:47:17,480 --> 01:47:21,240
illegal on the seat, that gives them, you know, probable cause to search or stuff.

1326
01:47:21,240 --> 01:47:29,020
I don't think that anything that you guys are saying is going to, like, I don't think we need

1327
01:47:29,020 --> 01:47:36,640
to quibble over this sort of thing, like you're in there, you were legally allowed to be in there

1328
01:47:36,640 --> 01:47:42,540
and you saw something that violates the lease. I don't think that constitutes this harassment.

1329
01:47:42,900 --> 01:47:48,300
It's when you start entering the property unannounced and start looking for things in that sort

1330
01:47:48,300 --> 01:47:54,900
way, or, you know, we've had tenants come to us that have said, you know, they're doing some sort

1331
01:47:54,900 --> 01:48:01,160
of repair, but they're entering without, you know, telling us about it. They're going through

1332
01:48:01,160 --> 01:48:07,720
our bedrooms, and they're going through our, like, we have video of them going through our dresser.

1333
01:48:09,200 --> 01:48:14,540
That's, that's using the right of access. That's harassment. The whole intent behind this is for

1334
01:48:14,540 --> 01:48:19,140
bad actors, right? You guys are here because you're the good actors, you're the good

1335
01:48:19,140 --> 01:48:24,420
property owners that you want to make sure that other people are held accountable and

1336
01:48:24,420 --> 01:48:30,660
do what you do for your tenants. And understood, and that's why we're here.

1337
01:48:43,950 --> 01:48:44,790
Can we, can

1338
01:48:48,790 --> 01:48:50,810
we, no, no.

1339
01:48:59,490 --> 01:49:03,650
Then say the abuse of right of access and then add in photography

1340
01:49:05,210 --> 01:49:07,310
can we just take every-

1341
01:49:07,310 --> 01:49:07,990
Can we just take every-

1342
01:49:07,990 --> 01:49:10,870
I'd rather see a tenant, you know, the use of power

1343
01:49:10,870 --> 01:49:16,070
including landlords that make a point in three days in a row and never come in and fix it.

1344
01:49:16,350 --> 01:49:17,550
That is her acting.

1345
01:49:18,750 --> 01:49:19,550
So that's what's written.

1346
01:49:20,070 --> 01:49:24,510
But photographing when it's not associated with the reason for entry.

1347
01:49:25,330 --> 01:49:26,530
Can you just-

1348
01:49:26,530 --> 01:49:26,550
So potentially-

1349
01:49:26,550 --> 01:49:28,250
A little bit like-

1350
01:49:28,250 --> 01:49:28,470
So-

1351
01:49:28,470 --> 01:49:31,790
Or reasons you can take a photograph when you came in for something.

1352
01:49:31,790 --> 01:49:36,110
potentially just striking, including a photographing or recording.

1353
01:49:37,210 --> 01:49:39,070
Yeah, or do you think the example that would be?

1354
01:49:39,170 --> 01:49:42,090
So, 1954, period of the minute or last.

1355
01:49:42,250 --> 01:49:43,470
I'm sorry I didn't hear what you said.

1356
01:49:43,610 --> 01:49:47,930
It was saying, you know, make it a period and then eliminate the rest of that after

1357
01:49:47,930 --> 01:49:48,210
19.

1358
01:49:48,350 --> 01:49:49,770
So that's a suggested strikeout.

1359
01:49:51,830 --> 01:49:53,190
So, you delivered the book?

1360
01:49:53,270 --> 01:49:56,410
Also, when a tenant says that taking out of their deposit,

1361
01:49:57,410 --> 01:50:01,530
that deposit sometimes will not cover some of the stuff that goes on.

1362
01:50:01,530 --> 01:50:10,610
in a rental, you know, my tenant, he passed out the shower and his butt hit the drain and

1363
01:50:10,610 --> 01:50:16,070
it overflowed from the third floor to the first floor with the tenant downstairs, that's not

1364
01:50:16,070 --> 01:50:20,710
going to cover in this closet. So, just things like that because it covered the floor.

1365
01:50:21,110 --> 01:50:24,930
Okay, we're moving on to number four. Pardon?

1366
01:50:25,750 --> 01:50:26,350
Okay,

1367
01:50:29,270 --> 01:50:35,810
number four, using abusive or offensive words, which are inherently likely to provoke an immediate violent reaction.

1368
01:50:37,170 --> 01:50:37,870
I'm sorry?

1369
01:50:39,130 --> 01:50:39,470
I'm not.

1370
01:50:40,470 --> 01:50:41,670
I'm not.

1371
01:50:41,670 --> 01:50:41,910
Okay.

1372
01:50:42,610 --> 01:50:42,730
Wow.

1373
01:50:42,870 --> 01:50:43,510
Thumbs up there?

1374
01:50:43,730 --> 01:50:43,790
Man.

1375
01:50:43,910 --> 01:50:44,450
You have one.

1376
01:50:45,730 --> 01:50:45,930
Yeah.

1377
01:50:47,130 --> 01:50:50,430
So, you know, pay rent might be offensive to somebody.

1378
01:50:50,430 --> 01:51:04,270
But, you know, or if somebody calls me maim or if somebody is not appropriately addressing them by the proper pronouns, is that now considered harassment, if it's like...

1379
01:51:05,490 --> 01:51:07,250
But, not addressing someone.

1380
01:51:07,750 --> 01:51:08,410
Yeah, the intent.

1381
01:51:08,750 --> 01:51:13,330
Okay, I'm not going to report in here, so the landlords are all good with this again.

1382
01:51:14,190 --> 01:51:19,030
Well, it turns out, if you're aware of someone's appropriate pronouns and not addressing them by their appropriate pronouns,

1383
01:51:19,030 --> 01:51:22,130
That is a fair housing violation, that's a discrimination.

1384
01:51:22,650 --> 01:51:23,290
Sure, not harassment.

1385
01:51:23,730 --> 01:51:28,530
So can we put this back to the fair housing rule laws, then?

1386
01:51:28,910 --> 01:51:33,070
Can we take that into our offensive words pursuant to fair housing law?

1387
01:51:34,770 --> 01:51:40,950
Which pretty much covers any arbitrary characteristic or intersectionality?

1388
01:51:44,230 --> 01:51:48,550
Well, that's what it says, that's what we have in our forms that fair housing does.

1389
01:51:48,550 --> 01:51:53,490
It's got California has one of the most strictest fair housing laws in the country.

1390
01:51:53,650 --> 01:51:55,990
Percent to fair housing law.

1391
01:51:58,100 --> 01:51:59,020
You're right.

1392
01:51:59,020 --> 01:52:00,300
I think if you,

1393
01:52:02,480 --> 01:52:08,840
you can call someone lots of mean ugly names.

1394
01:52:09,300 --> 01:52:11,000
They're not prohibited by fair housing.

1395
01:52:12,700 --> 01:52:15,860
So the what are, how do we determine what those are?

1396
01:52:17,760 --> 01:52:20,720
Causes harm and there's no lawful purpose.

1397
01:52:23,420 --> 01:52:33,980
I think it's very vague, but I am going to defer to the landlords and property owners in the room on that one.

1398
01:52:34,300 --> 01:52:34,600
Sir.

1399
01:52:36,530 --> 01:52:41,910
Just leaving a vague, because if somebody takes offense to me calling the master bedroom the master bedroom,

1400
01:52:42,410 --> 01:52:47,210
if I'm going into their property and I'm referencing, hey, I saw some black stuff on your ceiling in the master bedroom.

1401
01:52:47,290 --> 01:52:49,490
I want to make sure it's not mold, can we address this too?

1402
01:52:49,870 --> 01:52:52,450
And they're now offended by the use of the word master bedroom.

1403
01:52:52,450 --> 01:52:54,530
How is that unlawful?

1404
01:52:54,890 --> 01:52:56,630
But is that going to be possibly

1405
01:52:56,630 --> 01:52:59,410
construed to being offensive or

1406
01:52:59,410 --> 01:53:02,810
How would you determine that master bedroom is offensive?

1407
01:53:04,650 --> 01:53:05,730
But there are a lot of people that are

1408
01:53:05,730 --> 01:53:07,450
Primary bedroom or

1409
01:53:07,450 --> 01:53:14,530
Well, I guess I guess the second part of the sentence likely to provoke an immediate

1410
01:53:15,410 --> 01:53:16,450
Violent reaction.

1411
01:53:16,830 --> 01:53:18,450
I think if someone were

1412
01:53:18,450 --> 01:53:23,290
or mature by a master bedroom as compared to a primary bedroom, maybe that would be discomfort.

1413
01:53:23,850 --> 01:53:27,870
But I would hope that wouldn't have an immediate violent reaction.

1414
01:53:28,350 --> 01:53:34,230
I would hope not, but if I were looking to abuse this ordinance for my own personal gain,

1415
01:53:35,030 --> 01:53:40,630
it's easy to imagine somebody saying, I was so upset that he used the term Master Bedroom

1416
01:53:40,630 --> 01:53:44,030
instead of primary bedroom that I was ready to throw hands.

1417
01:53:44,510 --> 01:53:49,190
Again, these would all be cases that we're working with the Housing Rights Center, they would

1418
01:53:49,190 --> 01:53:49,910
all be investigated.

1419
01:53:50,230 --> 01:53:54,990
This isn't just, you're saying, master bedroom offends me, there's a reason that there's

1420
01:53:54,990 --> 01:53:56,850
a whole investigation that would go into this.

1421
01:53:57,070 --> 01:54:01,430
It's not like someone is just calling and reporting something that's going to be back up to

1422
01:54:01,430 --> 01:54:05,650
make sure that things are actually fall under the harassment and not just, you know.

1423
01:54:05,730 --> 01:54:06,430
That's my concern.

1424
01:54:06,690 --> 01:54:07,410
Is leaving it vague?

1425
01:54:07,670 --> 01:54:12,750
Is it encouraging, you know, this type of a hater and going to that phone call with the

1426
01:54:12,750 --> 01:54:15,170
And now we're just all wasting time and fees.

1427
01:54:15,550 --> 01:54:18,750
Do we fill the addition of adherence to fair housing law?

1428
01:54:18,910 --> 01:54:20,470
Makes it a little, okay.

1429
01:54:20,470 --> 01:54:21,770
I have more comments saying, okay.

1430
01:54:22,090 --> 01:54:22,850
We're going to keep that.

1431
01:54:22,870 --> 01:54:24,170
Thank you for your comments, sir.

1432
01:54:24,230 --> 01:54:24,890
And then, Dawn?

1433
01:54:26,790 --> 01:54:29,110
I don't know how you square this with the first amendment.

1434
01:54:30,410 --> 01:54:34,170
First amendment is not designed to protect civil speech.

1435
01:54:34,170 --> 01:54:36,330
Civil speech doesn't need protection.

1436
01:54:37,630 --> 01:54:41,970
It's things that are offensive that need protection under the first amendment.

1437
01:54:43,150 --> 01:54:50,010
So we'll add first amendment, concern, uh, dawn in the new sir.

1438
01:54:51,290 --> 01:55:00,550
So I think we need to see big picture here and realize who we are trying to protect.

1439
01:55:01,630 --> 01:55:10,090
And something like this is not going to be the point of somebody coming and filing a claim.

1440
01:55:11,690 --> 01:55:14,850
So let's stop picking at things.

1441
01:55:15,510 --> 01:55:17,890
You guys are all doing things the right way.

1442
01:55:19,050 --> 01:55:23,110
You have to think of that guy or that woman who is not.

1443
01:55:24,530 --> 01:55:27,750
Okay, so in the scheme of everything,

1444
01:55:28,290 --> 01:55:31,670
you can have a conversation with your homeowners and say,

1445
01:55:31,990 --> 01:55:32,790
I've got you.

1446
01:55:33,130 --> 01:55:34,450
We are doing everything right.

1447
01:55:34,770 --> 01:55:35,550
We are making it.

1448
01:55:35,590 --> 01:55:37,350
We are putting in notices in.

1449
01:55:37,350 --> 01:55:43,810
We are filing our leases on time, we are protecting you and your tenant.

1450
01:55:45,490 --> 01:55:47,150
This is not for you guys.

1451
01:55:48,850 --> 01:55:53,330
So you won't be going into a house and snooping through somebody's closet.

1452
01:55:54,130 --> 01:55:58,610
You won't be going and calling people names.

1453
01:55:59,170 --> 01:56:01,630
You will file the proper paperwork.

1454
01:56:02,790 --> 01:56:06,950
Okay, but there are people out there that do these things.

1455
01:56:07,410 --> 01:56:13,050
So please can you take your property management hats and your professional hats off and

1456
01:56:13,050 --> 01:56:16,730
stop nitpicking at this and read it in the scope.

1457
01:56:17,190 --> 01:56:24,890
If it is truly offensive to, or not offensive, I'm sorry, if it's truly going to hinder

1458
01:56:24,890 --> 01:56:28,290
you doing business, then speak up.

1459
01:56:31,650 --> 01:56:38,310
This ordinance looking at Big Picture, this is very similar to Oxnard in many ways.

1460
01:56:38,630 --> 01:56:44,650
Doesn't make it right, it doesn't make it any more palatable, but this is all about

1461
01:56:44,650 --> 01:56:50,390
consensus building and again, most of us will not be affected by many of these things.

1462
01:56:53,370 --> 01:57:00,670
I would take a shoot with the fact that nobody's going to use language as a basis to file a claim.

1463
01:57:01,450 --> 01:57:04,470
You'd be amazed what people are going to use to file a claim.

1464
01:57:05,630 --> 01:57:10,870
When the interaction is between the landlord and the tenant,

1465
01:57:11,970 --> 01:57:15,430
these things rarely, if ever, arise.

1466
01:57:16,170 --> 01:57:19,870
But when the city decides to put themselves in the middle of it,

1467
01:57:20,850 --> 01:57:24,750
and say, well, you have rights, and we're going to protect you.

1468
01:57:26,310 --> 01:57:29,310
And then the tenant says, well, yeah, yeah, I could do that.

1469
01:57:29,310 --> 01:57:34,410
And I might get 2,000 or 10,000 bucks in a bargain here,

1470
01:57:34,890 --> 01:57:36,270
and you say that's ridiculous.

1471
01:57:37,550 --> 01:57:39,290
Well, let me tell you about ridiculous.

1472
01:57:39,910 --> 01:57:41,650
I'm fighting with the city right now

1473
01:57:41,650 --> 01:57:44,730
because they're attempting to make me get permits

1474
01:57:45,210 --> 01:57:49,390
for work that was done and approved by the city 40 years ago.

1475
01:57:49,930 --> 01:57:53,410
You can't believe what somebody's claims are based on.

1476
01:57:56,080 --> 01:58:00,900
I am talking to my fellow constituents here, my colleagues.

1477
01:58:00,900 --> 01:58:02,820
They are doing things the right way.

1478
01:58:02,860 --> 01:58:05,000
They will not be calling people names.

1479
01:58:05,560 --> 01:58:08,120
So I'm not talking about society in general.

1480
01:58:08,200 --> 01:58:10,480
I'm talking about the people that are sitting here,

1481
01:58:10,520 --> 01:58:13,560
who own businesses, and who are professionals.

1482
01:58:15,280 --> 01:58:19,380
So I very doubt that you will be calling people names.

1483
01:58:45,920 --> 01:58:56,840
We have to look at the big picture. This ordinance is going to this ordinance is going to be in front of council. This is likely to pass.

1484
01:58:56,840 --> 01:59:03,820
This is our opportunity to speak to the issues that are of concern.

1485
01:59:04,640 --> 01:59:09,860
I can I can tell you with certainty this ordinance is going to pass so we can either

1486
01:59:09,860 --> 01:59:14,660
take the time and have some input or we can be we can grind this to a halt and talk

1487
01:59:14,660 --> 01:59:20,660
about every conceivable aspect of every one of these and get absolutely nothing done except

1488
01:59:21,320 --> 01:59:25,320
frustrating each other. So just keep in mind the big picture. Thank you.

1489
01:59:46,560 --> 01:59:51,220
I actually do want to suggest an edits a number four, which is that we should remove the violent reaction clause.

1490
01:59:51,680 --> 01:59:54,520
That's the constitutional standard for unprotected speech.

1491
01:59:54,700 --> 01:59:57,960
One of these standards for unprotected speech, and it's very, very low.

1492
01:59:58,700 --> 01:59:59,840
And there are other kinds of harm.

1493
02:00:02,340 --> 02:00:10,160
I think it's an easy change would be put in line with fair housing law and with civil rights law and California around hate speech.

1494
02:00:10,900 --> 02:00:21,140
Great. Thank you. We'll get that comment. Moving on to number 5, threatening physical harm to a tenant, whether verbally or by gesture.

1495
02:00:22,780 --> 02:00:28,240
I'm seeing some thumbs up with that, so I'm going to move on number six, misrepresenting

1496
02:00:28,240 --> 02:00:34,280
that a tenant must vacate the unit or inducing them to vacate the unit, sorry, vacate

1497
02:00:34,280 --> 02:00:38,900
through misrepresentation, concealment or omission of material facts.

1498
02:00:41,060 --> 02:00:45,920
I see a thumbs up. A couple of thumbs up. All right, I'm moving on.

1499
02:00:48,110 --> 02:00:50,110
We're going to zoom down.

1500
02:00:55,480 --> 02:00:56,240
There we go.

1501
02:00:56,240 --> 02:00:58,500
The month 7, yes seven.

1502
02:00:59,100 --> 02:01:01,260
Threatening or taking action to terminate

1503
02:01:01,260 --> 02:01:04,060
at tendency including serving an eviction notice

1504
02:01:04,060 --> 02:01:06,220
based on facts which the property owner has

1505
02:01:06,220 --> 02:01:09,480
no reasonable basis to believe to be true.

1506
02:01:24,350 --> 02:01:27,550
Threatening or taking action to terminate a tendency,

1507
02:01:28,270 --> 02:01:30,290
including serving an eviction notice

1508
02:01:30,290 --> 02:01:32,790
based on facts which the property owner

1509
02:01:32,790 --> 02:01:36,830
has no reasonable basis to believe to be true,

1510
02:01:38,360 --> 02:01:46,800
Information so change in from facts to information sounds like okay, I'm going to add information instead of facts

1511
02:01:53,330 --> 02:01:55,250
All right, moving on to number eight

1512
02:01:55,770 --> 02:02:01,550
interfering with attendance peaceful enjoyment of the unit or rendering the premises

1513
02:02:01,550 --> 02:02:03,790
Uninhabitable okay,

1514
02:02:06,160 --> 02:02:10,800
which am I grabbing a microphone number one went and remind me of a reading each of these?

1515
02:02:11,120 --> 02:02:14,800
It's that causes harm and serves no lawful purpose. Thank you Rachel

1516
02:02:16,880 --> 02:02:21,760
So, usually what renders a property uninhabitable is not under the control of the landlord.

1517
02:02:22,380 --> 02:02:23,980
It's something that happens to the property.

1518
02:02:24,160 --> 02:02:28,360
Most of the time from ex, like weather, things like that.

1519
02:02:29,600 --> 02:02:33,360
And then interfering with a tense peaceful enjoyment, that's a right that's already in the law.

1520
02:02:33,560 --> 02:02:35,160
Like why do we have to reiterate that?

1521
02:02:35,160 --> 02:02:36,640
It's in the lease as well.

1522
02:02:37,140 --> 02:02:38,780
So, a suggestion is to strike.

1523
02:02:39,540 --> 02:02:43,600
And again, even though I'll just, you can just, it might be in the law.

1524
02:02:43,600 --> 02:02:47,880
things like this. Again, this is to add it to the or propose to add it to the city of

1525
02:02:47,880 --> 02:02:52,460
Interra's local ordinance, so we do have our own civil penalties related to them.

1526
02:02:52,900 --> 02:02:54,980
And the specifically just a render the credits

1527
02:02:58,590 --> 02:03:02,210
on, or it is the willful intention of a bad

1528
02:03:02,210 --> 02:03:08,090
upland lord, which we keep circling back to. So if you are adhering to this, maybe it's an

1529
02:03:08,090 --> 02:03:14,950
on issue, and maybe people that aren't aware of this ordinance benefit from seeing this in front of

1530
02:03:14,950 --> 02:03:17,110
because it's news to them.

1531
02:03:17,790 --> 02:03:20,110
So, I have a comment as to the word rendering,

1532
02:03:20,750 --> 02:03:24,390
like to me that implies that it's rendered by the landlord

1533
02:03:24,390 --> 02:03:27,130
or like the landlord is intentionally making.

1534
02:03:28,750 --> 02:03:31,350
On an uninhabitable, but we can clarify that we can use,

1535
02:03:33,950 --> 02:03:35,490
we can be phrased it to-

1536
02:03:35,490 --> 02:03:37,510
Or the premise has become uninhabitable?

1537
02:03:38,270 --> 02:03:44,330
No, to prohibit that what's prohibited

1538
02:03:44,330 --> 02:03:51,290
It is the landlord reading, but I'm happy to do that, which is not just for the commission,

1539
02:03:51,730 --> 02:03:53,150
which is basically all right.

1540
02:03:54,790 --> 02:03:59,450
But again, Mr. Daily on and instead of being a fantastic landlord like he is, he chooses

1541
02:03:59,450 --> 02:04:04,570
not to fix the root organ super, superpise, so they can no longer use the bathrooms or things

1542
02:04:04,570 --> 02:04:06,750
like that, so it is now rendered uninhabitable.

1543
02:04:07,110 --> 02:04:10,650
I'm just using using an example because you were a good landlord and try to fix it.

1544
02:04:11,410 --> 02:04:11,930
Thank you.

1545
02:04:11,930 --> 02:04:16,910
Um, that would be rendering it uninhabitable with no intention to maintain it or fix it.

1546
02:04:19,210 --> 02:04:20,770
Okay, so number nine.

1547
02:04:21,170 --> 02:04:29,870
Refusing to accept lawful rent payment as set forth in the lease agreement, or as established by the usual practice of the parties are applicable law.

1548
02:04:30,010 --> 02:04:30,250
Sir.

1549
02:04:31,590 --> 02:04:35,570
I think this has some real unintended consequences.

1550
02:04:37,050 --> 02:04:42,310
Tenant comes to me and says, I lost my job. I'm going to be late with rent. Can you give me a couple of weeks?

1551
02:04:43,210 --> 02:04:50,710
Yes, of course, and the next month still catching up, yeah, of course, I'm not going to

1552
02:04:50,710 --> 02:04:58,310
bet. You can catch up in the future. And then he doesn't catch up at all.

1553
02:05:00,650 --> 02:05:01,050
I'm going to

1554
02:05:01,050 --> 02:05:06,030
serve a three-day notice. He's going to say the usual practice of the parties here is that

1555
02:05:06,030 --> 02:05:13,510
he's been given me an extra three weeks. I think this provides an automatic waiver on the part

1556
02:05:13,510 --> 02:05:17,410
of the landlord to enforce the terms of when rent is due?

1557
02:05:17,890 --> 02:05:20,990
I don't believe that this one refers to that one.

1558
02:05:21,430 --> 02:05:24,570
This is the property owner refusing to offer the tenant

1559
02:05:24,570 --> 02:05:28,470
the ability to pay rent or the security deposit

1560
02:05:28,470 --> 02:05:31,830
by a form other than cash electronic funds.

1561
02:05:32,770 --> 02:05:34,270
Oh, sorry, my bad.

1562
02:05:43,030 --> 02:05:45,270
Yeah, it's the usual practice that I'll

1563
02:05:45,270 --> 02:05:46,110
have a problem with.

1564
02:05:46,310 --> 02:05:48,470
And if you want to add something, you

1565
02:05:48,470 --> 02:05:56,770
could say, although this accepting late rent does not create an automatic waiver of the landlord's

1566
02:05:56,770 --> 02:05:58,810
right to collect rent on the due date.

1567
02:05:58,970 --> 02:06:01,270
So perhaps strike everything after lease agreement.

1568
02:06:02,150 --> 02:06:05,910
So it reads refusing to accept lawful rent payment as that fourth and the lease agreement

1569
02:06:05,910 --> 02:06:06,470
stop.

1570
02:06:09,140 --> 02:06:09,160
Sir.

1571
02:06:14,660 --> 02:06:20,100
I would suggest that it should just say refusing to accept sensibilities pay the rent or security

1572
02:06:20,100 --> 02:06:24,100
deposit by any form of legal tender because I've actually recently had an experience of a

1573
02:06:24,100 --> 02:06:29,460
and they're who said, these are the three things you can pay me with and I won't accept anything else

1574
02:06:29,460 --> 02:06:30,700
and it seemed ridiculous.

1575
02:06:30,960 --> 02:06:35,740
Like if it's a legal tender in the United States, it's legal tender so we should be able to simplify it.

1576
02:06:35,780 --> 02:06:36,880
So we're jumping to 10.

1577
02:06:41,750 --> 02:06:42,210
Oh, sorry.

1578
02:06:42,630 --> 02:06:43,330
Okay, okay.

1579
02:06:44,050 --> 02:06:48,750
So, no, right, yeah, we're, we're, so nine, we suggest it's striking everything after

1580
02:06:48,750 --> 02:06:50,110
least agreement stop.

1581
02:06:51,370 --> 02:06:52,370
Okay, I have that comment.

1582
02:06:53,090 --> 02:06:53,110
Sir?

1583
02:07:17,370 --> 02:07:19,790
Okay, once you're in the victim proceedings, it's no longer lawful.

1584
02:07:22,380 --> 02:07:29,360
Yeah, because typically when you are served with an eviction, your whole goal of the eviction is to get back possession of the unit.

1585
02:07:30,700 --> 02:07:34,260
So, at that point, you're not supposed to be accepting it anyway. So why would you take the rent?

1586
02:07:37,340 --> 02:07:40,640
But at that point it's no longer a lawful because they're in the lawful container process.

1587
02:07:42,060 --> 02:07:42,460
Peter.

1588
02:07:43,780 --> 02:07:46,780
No, this is two-year point exactly.

1589
02:07:48,340 --> 02:07:51,260
This, as a result of this ordinance, this will happen.

1590
02:07:51,260 --> 02:08:04,420
And tenants will have to go through a process all we can do at this point is to hope that is to hope that whoever's on the other end sees that there was a lawful action filed.

1591
02:08:04,900 --> 02:08:13,080
They look at the paperwork because many of these are subject to the opinion of housing rights center when they're.

1592
02:08:13,080 --> 02:08:23,060
when you were going to be, I think the essence of this entire ordinance is, as a housing provider week,

1593
02:08:23,300 --> 02:08:32,760
we're going to be much more subject to any of these from tenants who may make up claims or some may be legitimate.

1594
02:08:34,160 --> 02:08:35,940
And that's an era.

1595
02:08:53,340 --> 02:08:54,420
Don't change it.

1596
02:08:54,420 --> 02:08:59,480
something more or less so that the section can be used to force a lander to accept rent to

1597
02:08:59,480 --> 02:09:01,820
impede an eviction process.

1598
02:09:02,240 --> 02:09:03,400
I have

1599
02:09:06,570 --> 02:09:09,150
the note.

1600
02:09:11,050 --> 02:09:13,470
Okay, so moving to number 10.

1601
02:09:13,770 --> 02:09:18,590
Refusing to offer tenants the ability to pay rent or security deposit by a form of payment

1602
02:09:18,590 --> 02:09:23,790
other than cash or electronic funds transfers such as personal check money order.

1603
02:09:27,480 --> 02:09:35,720
I've got a problem with the fact that it says personal check, and I'm not sure if that's

1604
02:09:35,720 --> 02:09:43,520
unclear to me whether you must accept a personal check or if personal check is just an example

1605
02:09:43,520 --> 02:09:45,440
of some non-electronic.

1606
02:09:45,440 --> 02:09:47,380
It's an example.

1607
02:09:48,740 --> 02:09:52,120
Then maybe we don't need an example because

1608
02:09:52,120 --> 02:09:57,080
I could see somebody reading this as you paid me by personal check.

1609
02:09:57,360 --> 02:10:01,300
It bounced. Next month you paid me by personal check it bounced.

1610
02:10:02,340 --> 02:10:06,180
I tell a tenant, I'm no longer accepting personal checks from you.

1611
02:10:06,180 --> 02:10:09,380
It's got to be a money order or a cashier's check.

1612
02:10:09,380 --> 02:10:14,380
And then he weighs this in my face and says you have to accept personal checks.

1613
02:10:15,020 --> 02:10:17,600
Your recommendation will the phrase personal check?

1614
02:10:18,460 --> 02:10:18,920
Okay.

1615
02:10:22,450 --> 02:10:23,150
Number 11.

1616
02:10:24,290 --> 02:10:29,090
Inquiring is to the immigration or citizenship status or suspected status of a tenant,

1617
02:10:29,390 --> 02:10:34,330
prospective additional tenant, occupant or prospective additional occupant of a rental unit,

1618
02:10:34,850 --> 02:10:40,550
or requiring a statement representation or certification concerning their immigration or citizenship status.

1619
02:10:40,550 --> 02:10:41,130
status.

1620
02:10:42,470 --> 02:10:43,290
Sounds up?

1621
02:10:43,970 --> 02:10:44,250
All right.

1622
02:10:44,490 --> 02:10:45,070
Moving on.

1623
02:10:47,470 --> 02:10:47,530
Yeah.

1624
02:10:48,630 --> 02:10:51,530
Disclosing or threatening to disclose immigration or

1625
02:10:51,530 --> 02:10:54,350
citizenship status or suspected status of a tenant or

1626
02:10:54,350 --> 02:10:57,870
occupant to influence a tenant to vacate or for any other

1627
02:10:57,870 --> 02:10:58,390
reason.

1628
02:10:59,650 --> 02:10:59,870
Good.

1629
02:11:00,310 --> 02:11:00,890
13.

1630
02:11:01,090 --> 02:11:03,170
Reporting or threatening to report a tenant to a

1631
02:11:03,170 --> 02:11:06,670
government agency for engaging in legally protected

1632
02:11:06,670 --> 02:11:07,410
activity.

1633
02:11:07,410 --> 02:11:15,650
I'm up, 14, violating federal, state, or local housing, and tied discrimination laws.

1634
02:11:17,660 --> 02:11:20,300
Although we have technical difficulties, we added a column accidentally.

1635
02:11:21,120 --> 02:11:21,900
We'll control Z.

1636
02:11:23,840 --> 02:11:26,440
Get out of the colors, things, control Z.

1637
02:11:29,040 --> 02:11:29,100
Okay.

1638
02:11:30,360 --> 02:11:30,940
All right.

1639
02:11:33,250 --> 02:11:33,430
Okay.

1640
02:11:34,690 --> 02:11:38,870
So violating federal, state, or local, and housing and tied discrimination laws, we're good.

1641
02:11:38,870 --> 02:11:46,630
Okay. 15, retaliating against tenants for organizing or participating in tenant associations or unions.

1642
02:11:47,650 --> 02:11:55,230
Thumbs up. 16, violating a tenants' right to privacy or requesting information that infringes upon that right.

1643
02:11:57,050 --> 02:11:57,690
No comment.

1644
02:12:06,240 --> 02:12:09,220
Monica, do you have any insight regarding the privacy?

1645
02:12:09,480 --> 02:12:12,740
Tenants' right to privacy or requesting information that infringes upon that right?

1646
02:12:12,740 --> 02:12:12,820
Okay.

1647
02:12:16,410 --> 02:12:23,070
Let's see a problem with deleting that just because I see that in number 14.

1648
02:12:26,190 --> 02:12:26,510
All right.

1649
02:12:26,810 --> 02:12:31,570
So, because violating attendance right to privacy or requesting information that

1650
02:12:31,570 --> 02:12:37,170
infringes upon that right is connected with number 14, violating federal state or local housing

1651
02:12:37,170 --> 02:12:41,650
and tight discrimination laws, because that could be captured within that.

1652
02:12:42,070 --> 02:12:45,190
So, the recommendation was to strike 16 is written.

1653
02:12:46,970 --> 02:12:54,730
One, I would actually, can we just put a comment into investigate that further because I think the right of privacy is a broader in scope than just anti discrimination law.

1654
02:12:55,210 --> 02:12:58,470
And so might just be worth double checking what this standard is in the state of California.

1655
02:12:58,990 --> 02:13:01,190
Recommendation to investigate in the state. Thank you.

1656
02:13:04,540 --> 02:13:05,880
Definition of it.

1657
02:13:06,260 --> 02:13:10,060
I mean the right to privacy is going to be under the Constitution.

1658
02:13:12,440 --> 02:13:18,740
17, repeated acts are already, okay sorry, all right, repeated acts or omissions that

1659
02:13:18,740 --> 02:13:23,560
substantially interfere with attendance comfort, peace or quiet, or are intended to

1660
02:13:23,560 --> 02:13:30,980
cause the tenant to wave or forfeit tenancy rights. Again, going back to the

1661
02:13:30,980 --> 02:13:41,480
preface of what is considered causes harm or serves no lawful purpose. Repeated acts or

1662
02:13:41,480 --> 02:13:44,200
conference piece or quiet or no. We're all good.

1663
02:13:46,830 --> 02:13:49,130
We're good. Okay. Moving on now to our next

1664
02:13:49,130 --> 02:13:58,550
section, we did it, guys. Good job. 9, 10, 0. Oh, sorry. Sorry. 9, 10, 0, 5, 0. Affirmative defense.

1665
02:13:59,750 --> 02:14:05,790
Attent may use the protections afforded in this chapter as an affirmative defense in an unlawful

1666
02:14:05,790 --> 02:14:13,050
detainer action when a property owner engages in actions constituting harassment as defined in this

1667
02:14:13,050 --> 02:14:13,430
Chapter,

1668
02:14:16,120 --> 02:14:19,180
thumbs, thumbs, thumbs.

1669
02:14:19,720 --> 02:14:23,280
Section 910-060, lawful evictions.

1670
02:14:23,960 --> 02:14:26,000
Nothing in this chapter shall be construed

1671
02:14:26,000 --> 02:14:28,940
as preventing lawful evictions of a tenant

1672
02:14:28,940 --> 02:14:30,980
through appropriate legal procedures.

1673
02:14:31,380 --> 02:14:34,600
If that had been at the forefront of this entire night.

1674
02:14:34,600 --> 02:14:35,140
I know, right?

1675
02:14:35,860 --> 02:14:38,060
Maybe we could have avoided something.

1676
02:14:41,730 --> 02:14:42,110
I know.

1677
02:14:42,430 --> 02:14:43,570
Recommendation moved to the top.

1678
02:14:44,330 --> 02:14:45,310
We're getting it.

1679
02:14:45,470 --> 02:14:45,790
Thanks.

1680
02:14:47,900 --> 02:14:52,000
All right, nine, thank you for staying with us for our 820.

1681
02:14:52,560 --> 02:14:53,700
Good job, team.

1682
02:14:54,320 --> 02:14:57,640
All right, 910, 070, enforcement and penalties.

1683
02:14:58,500 --> 02:14:59,600
A civil actions.

1684
02:15:00,000 --> 02:15:08,460
One, any person entity or organization may bring a civil action, including in small claims court to enforce this chapter.

1685
02:15:10,970 --> 02:15:17,560
Seeing some nods, question, what happened to mediation?

1686
02:15:22,230 --> 02:15:25,570
where yeah, where we're down in E, mediation's in E.

1687
02:15:28,040 --> 02:15:30,540
So I have issue with any person.

1688
02:15:31,080 --> 02:15:38,720
Can we put any tenant or any person affected by this?

1689
02:15:38,800 --> 02:15:42,500
Because any person reads that my friend Matt has been harassed

1690
02:15:42,500 --> 02:15:44,720
and I'm going to file a claim against him.

1691
02:15:44,860 --> 02:15:50,320
Do you want to report it by saying any tenant or household member?

1692
02:15:53,060 --> 02:15:55,000
Any, any lease holder?

1693
02:15:55,000 --> 02:15:55,580
Okay.

1694
02:15:59,170 --> 02:15:59,190
Andrea.

1695
02:16:16,570 --> 02:16:18,090
The entity organization comes to play.

1696
02:16:18,570 --> 02:16:21,910
So for any person that you want to add, any affected person.

1697
02:16:22,370 --> 02:16:25,210
So it's like if you're a best friend there, they can't sue them on behalf of you.

1698
02:16:35,990 --> 02:16:39,830
With tenant unions are organizations and they are comprised.

1699
02:16:39,950 --> 02:16:40,350
They are.

1700
02:16:43,160 --> 02:16:43,820
I'm sorry.

1701
02:16:59,320 --> 02:16:59,540
Okay.

1702
02:17:00,160 --> 02:17:00,340
Moving.

1703
02:17:20,340 --> 02:17:23,440
How would you recommend rewarding that or providing clear clarification?

1704
02:17:26,240 --> 02:17:27,520
Sorry, that's not.

1705
02:17:28,180 --> 02:17:31,720
because there are people who don't have leases who are lawful tenants, so should

1706
02:17:31,720 --> 02:17:33,280
it just say lawful tenants.

1707
02:17:35,240 --> 02:17:36,120
Lawful tenants.

1708
02:17:51,660 --> 02:17:55,780
I mean, issue of scope, because if you are, say, you're living with an elderly parent.

1709
02:17:55,800 --> 02:17:59,700
There may be an ADA issue of, like, you take care of someone who's see-nile.

1710
02:17:59,800 --> 02:18:02,560
That person can't bring us, bring it.

1711
02:18:02,760 --> 02:18:06,420
We do have tenant defined back up where we went over.

1712
02:18:06,680 --> 02:18:07,200
All righty.

1713
02:18:07,260 --> 02:18:11,320
Any tenant, subtenently, see, subly see or other person entitled to use

1714
02:18:11,320 --> 02:18:15,540
or occupier rental unit within the city so would we like to use tenant.

1715
02:18:17,140 --> 02:18:17,700
Tenant.

1716
02:18:17,700 --> 02:18:18,060
Tenant.

1717
02:18:18,060 --> 02:18:18,300
Tenant.

1718
02:18:18,620 --> 02:18:19,180
Tenant.

1719
02:18:20,260 --> 02:18:20,820
Tenant.

1720
02:18:21,260 --> 02:18:21,820
Tenant.

1721
02:18:22,100 --> 02:18:23,180
Entity or organization.

1722
02:18:23,660 --> 02:18:25,060
Any tenant tied to the property somehow.

1723
02:18:25,160 --> 02:18:26,660
Any tenant tied to the property.

1724
02:18:26,940 --> 02:18:27,900
So here's my thing.

1725
02:18:28,020 --> 02:18:32,180
When you say any affected person, that covers you guys.

1726
02:18:32,200 --> 02:18:34,600
That's covering your landlord and your tenant.

1727
02:18:35,080 --> 02:18:37,000
Now you're specifying only one.

1728
02:18:48,680 --> 02:18:49,920
I have to give this in my next report.

1729
02:18:49,920 --> 02:18:55,140
So, you guys are recommending to change the word any person to any tenant,

1730
02:19:03,360 --> 02:19:04,200
they have to have

1731
02:19:04,200 --> 02:19:04,740
standing.

1732
02:19:05,540 --> 02:19:06,620
The federal standing.

1733
02:19:12,000 --> 02:19:14,920
No, because if you don't have it, actually, if, for example, at the housing rights

1734
02:19:14,920 --> 02:19:19,800
center or any other, like, return a county legal aid, decide to bring a claim on behalf

1735
02:19:19,800 --> 02:19:20,480
of the tenant.

1736
02:19:20,560 --> 02:19:22,880
They won't be able to, because it's not clear to find the actual ordinance.

1737
02:19:24,060 --> 02:19:24,220
Yes.

1738
02:19:24,940 --> 02:19:27,220
So, I'm going to change person to tenant.

1739
02:19:28,520 --> 02:19:28,920
Okay.

1740
02:19:28,920 --> 02:19:35,860
So, number two, a violator of this chapter is liable for each such offense for economic

1741
02:19:35,860 --> 02:19:41,820
damages suffered by the aggrieved party and non-economic damages, including damages for

1742
02:19:41,820 --> 02:19:47,960
a mental or emotional distress, rent refunds for a reduction in housing services, if applicable,

1743
02:19:48,660 --> 02:19:56,040
civil penalties set in the section, injunctive, decotory, and other equitable relief,

1744
02:19:56,800 --> 02:20:02,380
restitution and reasonable attorneys, fees, and costs as specified by this chapter.

1745
02:20:16,920 --> 02:20:17,360
All right, so

1746
02:20:20,400 --> 02:20:26,960
we will move section E, voluntary mediation, and education, and outreach to A.

1747
02:20:27,500 --> 02:20:29,960
Sorry, I'd like to comment about the enforcement actions.

1748
02:20:31,220 --> 02:20:34,920
Do you have a comment about what the, I don't know if this is the right place to put this,

1749
02:20:35,100 --> 02:20:40,400
but if a tenant doesn't have some kind of protection from being evicted from filing a claim,

1750
02:20:40,400 --> 02:20:45,000
And that's going to be a chilling effect on people filing claims, right?

1751
02:20:45,000 --> 02:20:49,040
So there needs to be some kind of protection or assurance, something that like the tenant

1752
02:20:49,040 --> 02:20:55,540
is entitled to some sort of temporary protection while they bring a claim forth against

1753
02:20:55,540 --> 02:20:56,280
a property owner.

1754
02:20:56,300 --> 02:21:00,140
Are you referring to what's similar when you, like for example, if you file a complaint with

1755
02:21:00,140 --> 02:21:02,040
code of force, may you have six month worth of protections?

1756
02:21:03,440 --> 02:21:07,780
Something like that, because otherwise a tenant is going to have to make a calculus of like,

1757
02:21:07,780 --> 02:21:13,140
Do I do I live with this or do I bring do I bring a complete forward?

1758
02:21:13,320 --> 02:21:18,760
Am I worried about my landlord starting an eviction process while I've also started an ANC harassment process?

1759
02:21:19,700 --> 02:21:28,020
So, let me think about that because I don't it's been a while since I've looked at the retaliation statute

1760
02:21:28,020 --> 02:21:38,260
because if the retaliation statute covers coming to the housing rights center and complaining about violation of this ordinance,

1761
02:21:42,480 --> 02:21:45,120
then it's covered, right?

1762
02:21:45,200 --> 02:21:55,040
If the retaliation statute is more narrow than we can think about it.

1763
02:21:55,040 --> 02:22:10,420
But let's say that we'll look into if it already covers it because it covers it then we don't need a remedy for that because the housing rights center will see them about that anyways.

1764
02:22:11,000 --> 02:22:19,440
Because the housing rights center is not only limited to, you know, our ordinances, but state law as well.

1765
02:22:25,120 --> 02:22:30,600
So I'm not sure if we're on paragraph A, or if we are should we,

1766
02:22:33,380 --> 02:22:36,020
but we're still talking about what was reforming on cases.

1767
02:22:36,460 --> 02:22:40,160
So the statement that starts a violator of this chapter is liable.

1768
02:22:40,240 --> 02:22:43,520
That is the statement we are on.

1769
02:22:44,240 --> 02:22:46,060
I'm sorry, so which paragraph are we on?

1770
02:22:46,380 --> 02:22:52,400
So right now on the draft you have in front of you were A2 under enforcement and penalties.

1771
02:22:52,400 --> 02:22:53,500
or

1772
02:23:07,000 --> 02:23:07,960
was it mediation?

1773
02:23:08,380 --> 02:23:10,680
I thought it was mediation first and then the

1774
02:23:22,460 --> 02:23:23,680
correct.

1775
02:23:26,050 --> 02:23:29,310
So we are now as drafted in front of you,

1776
02:23:29,710 --> 02:23:31,510
A2 under enforcement and penalties.

1777
02:23:32,230 --> 02:23:32,830
Selections.

1778
02:23:34,150 --> 02:23:35,730
So any comments on A.

1779
02:23:35,730 --> 02:23:36,370
I've read it.

1780
02:23:52,570 --> 02:23:53,470
I'm not in agreement.

1781
02:24:08,700 --> 02:24:11,260
We're moving ahead to be which actually talks about.

1782
02:24:12,880 --> 02:24:14,180
I'm going to turn this to a penalty.

1783
02:24:15,860 --> 02:24:16,100
Yes.

1784
02:24:17,580 --> 02:24:18,180
Sorry.

1785
02:24:18,180 --> 02:24:31,160
So the question is, if number two at the top, if an award for all of that would be limited to the amounts, the way it's written is,

1786
02:24:38,230 --> 02:24:55,230
no, no, no, no, the 10,000 is the limit for the civil penalties, so for example, if it got to the point or it's in front of Judge, going through trial, the judge is now, if it's a bench trial, where it's a bench trial,

1787
02:24:55,230 --> 02:25:01,830
example, or jury, whoever they're deciding on a war generally,

1788
02:25:03,870 --> 02:25:05,370
but I think what the jury

1789
02:25:05,370 --> 02:25:10,730
gets is like the list of like, you know, this type of damage line, this type of damage line,

1790
02:25:11,250 --> 02:25:17,630
and then they fill it in. So I think the civil penalty will probably be determined by a judge,

1791
02:25:17,910 --> 02:25:23,010
and then all the other like subjective stuff would be a separate one. So I could hold

1792
02:25:23,010 --> 02:25:24,630
It would be,

1793
02:25:28,660 --> 02:25:37,140
whatever is proven and awarded, and then three would be in addition by a day.

1794
02:25:38,120 --> 02:25:43,740
So, yes, here's the Justin and, you know, limited to civil penalties and doctors of Justin.

1795
02:25:44,180 --> 02:25:51,720
But what you're asking, based on what it's written, is, that could be a suggestion.

1796
02:26:02,920 --> 02:26:08,760
We're expanding number two, as Leon is typing, be virtually

1797
02:26:20,850 --> 02:26:22,370
correct.

1798
02:26:26,370 --> 02:26:31,250
Okay, are we ready to move on to right now section B, civil action or small claims, civil penalties?

1799
02:26:33,190 --> 02:26:40,330
So one, a prevailing tenant is entitled to a civil penny of up to 10,000, but not less than 2,000 for each violation.

1800
02:26:41,650 --> 02:26:48,370
And these numbers, for my edification, the, is that a standard, is that an industry standard, the civil penalties?

1801
02:26:50,070 --> 02:26:53,030
The 10,000, not more than 10, not less than two?

1802
02:26:54,270 --> 02:27:01,130
I mean, other jurisdictions, to see what they do, and other jurisdictions they may have been higher.

1803
02:27:01,810 --> 02:27:03,410
Other businesses were sustaining that.

1804
02:27:04,170 --> 02:27:07,390
Okay, so this is what we felt was a middle ground.

1805
02:27:07,810 --> 02:27:08,690
Okay, yes, ma'am.

1806
02:27:08,690 --> 02:27:17,610
I'm confused on the recommendation that was just made, or we can solidating all of B to basically just fall under the umbrella of civil penalties.

1807
02:27:18,050 --> 02:27:19,370
Is that what just happened?

1808
02:27:20,010 --> 02:27:22,290
Like without clarifying what those are?

1809
02:27:22,290 --> 02:27:22,290
I

1810
02:27:24,690 --> 02:27:35,290
think the suggestion for number two is that if a court is going to award money, they're

1811
02:27:35,290 --> 02:27:43,090
going to be limited to the civil penalty only and not to, you know, mental or emotional

1812
02:27:43,090 --> 02:27:48,010
distress and the other things listed, so it would be limited to civil penalties.

1813
02:27:48,630 --> 02:28:05,990
So, what's up on two is, like, for example, you know, this amount was this amount was this amount was this amount was this amount was this amount was this amount was this amount and by making it just a little penalties and it's only one type of definition, just a silly penalty amount which are listed in B.

1814
02:28:06,930 --> 02:28:08,610
No, not really.

1815
02:28:09,330 --> 02:28:13,670
And we're doing that because one and two, we're looking at under B, right?

1816
02:28:15,680 --> 02:28:22,720
So we are making the distinction that two stands alone from one, because it is a specific

1817
02:28:22,720 --> 02:28:23,220
instance.

1818
02:28:23,580 --> 02:28:25,100
What you are the one who made the recommendation.

1819
02:28:25,260 --> 02:28:25,960
What are you saying?

1820
02:28:53,130 --> 02:28:57,990
I mean, is that something that is in our control in this forum right now?

1821
02:28:58,030 --> 02:29:00,390
That seems like going beyond that scope.

1822
02:29:00,390 --> 02:29:05,530
We can, yeah, I'm just wondering, like, is that something you take up with the law?

1823
02:29:20,920 --> 02:29:23,240
So just making it, making it.

1824
02:29:27,810 --> 02:29:31,590
So the very, the number to what the very top, not in for being.

1825
02:29:32,530 --> 02:29:38,070
That spells out the different types of damages that a person could potentially see.

1826
02:29:38,330 --> 02:29:39,030
And they're all separate.

1827
02:29:40,830 --> 02:29:42,770
Civil penalty is also separate.

1828
02:29:42,770 --> 02:29:51,770
And the only number constraint is the civil penalty amount because that's spelled out in B.

1829
02:30:00,270 --> 02:30:06,770
Or other than listed at the very, on to what the top of being, yes.

1830
02:30:09,550 --> 02:30:16,830
So the suggestion was, no, thank you.

1831
02:30:18,390 --> 02:30:26,630
The suggestion was to limit to, for that the only damages awarded could be the civil penalties and be,

1832
02:30:26,630 --> 02:30:29,570
and not the other effects of damages that are listening at the top of two.

1833
02:30:29,730 --> 02:30:30,510
So that was a suggestion.

1834
02:30:31,650 --> 02:30:34,930
But it's also saying that if you had a 5,910,

1835
02:30:35,470 --> 02:30:39,010
that an 8,000, that really says that those would now

1836
02:30:39,010 --> 02:30:41,970
not just be one violation, it's a vain violation.

1837
02:30:42,690 --> 02:30:46,250
So it's $32,000 a day that you're going to have a penalty.

1838
02:30:46,650 --> 02:30:46,890
Is whatever.

1839
02:30:48,170 --> 02:30:53,330
That would be, if whatever occurred,

1840
02:30:53,330 --> 02:31:03,010
to cover 32 times, for up to $5,000 plus $5,5,000 plus $5,000 plus $5,000.

1841
02:31:03,230 --> 02:31:04,550
So, you know, you're up to $30,000.

1842
02:31:05,150 --> 02:31:10,410
So, those are the limits that a judge or a jury would want to do.

1843
02:31:10,870 --> 02:31:11,690
Who's with a one?

1844
02:31:12,170 --> 02:31:17,910
The limit was $60,000, so six thousand days, $30,000, so $30,000, $30,000.

1845
02:31:18,610 --> 02:31:20,570
Do you even want to bring your seats off?

1846
02:31:47,370 --> 02:31:49,850
So we are, thank you.

1847
02:31:50,950 --> 02:31:58,550
I think we are good with the two. Now we're in B. We're looking at civil action. We had a question about the range that was given.

1848
02:31:58,570 --> 02:32:06,610
It looks like we did research with cities of same size. This is a middle range. Is there beyond whether or not it should be here or not.

1849
02:32:06,790 --> 02:32:09,790
It's a different topic. Are we okay with the statement as presented?

1850
02:32:10,370 --> 02:32:15,910
Okay, B or two, sorry, B-2, an additional civil penalty of up to 5,000

1851
02:32:15,910 --> 02:32:19,910
per violation may be imposed that the tenant is a disabled person or a senior or

1852
02:32:19,910 --> 02:32:21,010
65 and over.

1853
02:32:23,060 --> 02:32:23,580
Thumbs up?

1854
02:32:24,100 --> 02:32:28,060
Three, each violation in each day that a violation continues constitutes a separate

1855
02:32:28,060 --> 02:32:28,800
offense.

1856
02:32:31,280 --> 02:32:31,600
Thumbs up?

1857
02:32:31,600 --> 02:32:32,360
That law?

1858
02:32:33,000 --> 02:32:33,400
I'm sorry.

1859
02:32:36,500 --> 02:32:37,740
Is that a law?

1860
02:32:39,440 --> 02:32:41,240
No, this is the remedy provided.

1861
02:32:43,380 --> 02:32:49,380
Number two, what the top is what it is and the reason that number three and B is what it is

1862
02:32:49,380 --> 02:33:02,460
is because the reality is that it is very challenging for tenants to find attorneys to represent them in any type of

1863
02:33:02,460 --> 02:33:08,240
protection loss because attorneys generally plaintiffs attorneys are business as they need to pay

1864
02:33:08,240 --> 02:33:15,920
overhead they need to be able to you know taking the case take takes cost a lot of money

1865
02:33:15,920 --> 02:33:24,360
experts you know days and court so this the purpose of two and three is to hopefully not guarantee

1866
02:33:24,360 --> 02:33:33,460
to increase the bar, to increase attorneys will actually decide to take these type of cases

1867
02:33:33,460 --> 02:33:40,200
because generally, without these type of monetary remedies, it is going to, it is not going

1868
02:33:40,200 --> 02:33:44,080
to really make a difference as far as a tenancy ability to hire an attorney.

1869
02:33:54,000 --> 02:34:12,180
So what I'm saying is that the remedies are in order to hopefully make it more likely that a tenant will be able to find an attorney, maybe they won't.

1870
02:34:29,740 --> 02:34:42,160
I think the each day would be, I mean, all of them, an easy one to look at is, you know, not remedy, an issue of

1871
02:34:42,160 --> 02:34:48,640
of habitability. So if you're still living there and paying rent and it's gone it's been 62 days

1872
02:34:48,640 --> 02:34:53,760
since you've had where to notice to the property owner that the hot water isn't working.

1873
02:35:26,640 --> 02:35:27,280
So

1874
02:35:42,380 --> 02:35:47,620
for Lamor some break the law. You understand that you're probably never ever going to be

1875
02:35:54,280 --> 02:36:00,540
But that's why I didn't want to see you all that don't listen to, like I completely get it, they're going to be back.

1876
02:36:04,220 --> 02:36:08,120
You don't have to bring a law, that's why you get to give them all the free of effort of law.

1877
02:36:08,340 --> 02:36:10,340
So if you just throw the law, then you're going to win.

1878
02:36:10,540 --> 02:36:11,240
It's investigation.

1879
02:36:11,720 --> 02:36:13,660
Yeah, it's more like something like that.

1880
02:36:25,320 --> 02:36:33,100
So what I'm hearing, coming back to the narrative here, coming back to the language, we're potentially striking B3.

1881
02:36:55,290 --> 02:36:55,890
Okay.

1882
02:36:55,890 --> 02:36:55,910
Okay.

1883
02:36:55,910 --> 02:37:01,950
If we're just arbitrarily leaving this out and we're not using any standard or adding something

1884
02:37:01,950 --> 02:37:04,810
that's not anywhere out of this, I want to know that.

1885
02:37:05,050 --> 02:37:11,290
We can look carefully at what the local look at the other audiences and hunt through them

1886
02:37:11,290 --> 02:37:18,290
to see exactly if they are all still doing a third day violation or take it out.

1887
02:37:19,730 --> 02:37:20,250
All right.

1888
02:37:20,410 --> 02:37:20,690
Pardon me.

1889
02:37:20,690 --> 02:37:22,570
potentially strike, but research.

1890
02:37:23,290 --> 02:37:23,610
Sir.

1891
02:37:24,390 --> 02:37:26,110
I'm interested in reading research tonight.

1892
02:37:26,390 --> 02:37:28,930
The chair of the other states, San Francisco, on San Francisco,

1893
02:37:29,070 --> 02:37:31,630
or does it mean that you have ten and eighty percent performances

1894
02:37:32,270 --> 02:37:34,070
that don't have some of the way.

1895
02:37:34,170 --> 02:37:36,050
If you only learn of these superhuman laws,

1896
02:37:36,170 --> 02:37:38,310
you can't go with the views of views.

1897
02:37:38,390 --> 02:37:38,850
Is that right?

1898
02:37:39,250 --> 02:37:42,470
Because they have to participate in the terms of safety.

1899
02:37:43,710 --> 02:37:44,870
So, this is a very...

1900
02:37:44,870 --> 02:37:45,450
What am I...

1901
02:37:45,450 --> 02:37:49,470
On my point is, this is a very, very real problem with this study.

1902
02:37:49,470 --> 02:37:53,790
And if there is an incite, an impeachment or a term to take you on,

1903
02:37:54,090 --> 02:37:54,730
then it's will.

1904
02:37:55,530 --> 02:37:57,490
Even in the heat where they have a work that we're cutting,

1905
02:37:57,710 --> 02:37:59,910
I have no one going to come in and try it.

1906
02:37:59,970 --> 02:38:02,090
You shouldn't because it can't get to the surface of the surface.

1907
02:38:02,910 --> 02:38:04,310
There's a lot of work on the agenda.

1908
02:38:04,710 --> 02:38:05,590
You can predict that.

1909
02:38:05,810 --> 02:38:06,290
But you can't.

1910
02:38:06,750 --> 02:38:07,330
But you can't.

1911
02:38:07,330 --> 02:38:07,650
I can't.

1912
02:38:07,650 --> 02:38:07,830
I can't.

1913
02:38:07,830 --> 02:38:07,970
I can't.

1914
02:38:08,170 --> 02:38:08,230
I can't.

1915
02:38:08,230 --> 02:38:08,250
I can't.

1916
02:38:08,250 --> 02:38:08,350
I can't.

1917
02:38:08,490 --> 02:38:08,570
I can't.

1918
02:38:16,870 --> 02:38:17,670
I can't.

1919
02:38:38,330 --> 02:38:46,590
I would like to just mention by the way, since it was said, let's take a look and see what other cities are doing in order to be searching and potentially striking.

1920
02:38:47,370 --> 02:38:53,750
And tracking and finding the data of whether or not it's effective, not just because what they're doing.

1921
02:38:54,170 --> 02:38:57,870
For example, Oxnard just started doing it, we really have no data.

1922
02:38:58,130 --> 02:38:59,850
That will be a part of whether that's effective.

1923
02:39:00,010 --> 02:39:00,710
Thank you, Ms. Trainer.

1924
02:39:00,910 --> 02:39:02,910
We'll definitely look at that as part of our research.

1925
02:39:03,970 --> 02:39:05,570
Essentially, well, we will have to do.

1926
02:39:05,730 --> 02:39:10,310
In terms of looking at other jurisdictions, that does not mean looking at jurisdictions that recently

1927
02:39:10,310 --> 02:39:12,210
you just pass and answer our investment ordinances,

1928
02:39:12,490 --> 02:39:13,350
we have to look at jurisdiction,

1929
02:39:13,610 --> 02:39:15,350
I have an answer our investment ordinance on the books

1930
02:39:15,350 --> 02:39:16,590
for at least several years,

1931
02:39:16,790 --> 02:39:18,590
so they could have data and information for us to utilize.

1932
02:39:18,890 --> 02:39:20,090
So yes, we agree with the research.

1933
02:39:20,310 --> 02:39:21,010
Thank you.

1934
02:39:41,930 --> 02:39:42,250
The Senate.

1935
02:39:42,410 --> 02:39:44,170
We also have a mediation section.

1936
02:39:45,130 --> 02:39:45,150
What?

1937
02:39:46,610 --> 02:39:49,610
Yes, yes, we've got 15 minutes, and then I do have to,

1938
02:39:49,610 --> 02:39:51,230
we do have security to release.

1939
02:39:51,470 --> 02:39:52,430
You had a comment though.

1940
02:39:52,730 --> 02:39:55,950
I was just gonna say that the data could be skewed

1941
02:39:55,950 --> 02:39:58,430
by a lot of things.

1942
02:39:58,430 --> 02:40:05,090
I mean, if there are these laws in place and they're not being enforced, then how can we

1943
02:40:05,090 --> 02:40:11,110
like truly trust the data and these other places and context, I think matters place to

1944
02:40:11,110 --> 02:40:11,630
place.

1945
02:40:11,710 --> 02:40:17,370
I think that we should trust that the tenants in this area know what protections they need.

1946
02:40:19,230 --> 02:40:26,430
If we're waiting for data, like we could be waiting for, you know, till who knows when.

1947
02:40:26,430 --> 02:40:30,390
I think it's time to pave the path here.

1948
02:40:30,870 --> 02:40:31,490
Thank you.

1949
02:40:32,310 --> 02:40:35,170
So, moving on to see attorneys fees.

1950
02:40:35,970 --> 02:40:37,290
A prevailing yes, sir.

1951
02:40:42,740 --> 02:40:43,480
Okay, party.

1952
02:40:44,080 --> 02:40:45,520
So, for the live stream,

1953
02:40:46,020 --> 02:40:47,060
it was a prevailing tenant.

1954
02:40:47,200 --> 02:40:49,400
She'll be awarded reasonable attorneys fees

1955
02:40:49,400 --> 02:40:51,240
and costs were suggesting,

1956
02:40:51,240 --> 02:40:54,000
suggesting tenant and putting party.

1957
02:40:55,640 --> 02:40:56,420
Thank you.

1958
02:40:56,980 --> 02:40:59,800
Moving on to D administrative

1959
02:40:59,800 --> 02:41:04,120
of citations, violations of this chapter are subject to civil penalties, set by resolution

1960
02:41:04,120 --> 02:41:12,700
by issuance of an administrative citation pursuant to chapter 1.50, I don't see any hands

1961
02:41:12,700 --> 02:41:20,220
next is E, voluntary mediation and education outreach. The community development director has

1962
02:41:20,220 --> 02:41:24,960
the authority to create policies and procedures to aid in the implementation of this chapter.

1963
02:41:26,720 --> 02:41:32,600
This kind of follows into what I think we had talked about the beginning is what happens after this.

1964
02:41:32,840 --> 02:41:38,720
So this gives our department director the authority to figure out the administrative procedures, right?

1965
02:41:39,040 --> 02:41:43,900
That would be a transparent process and I know Council would want us to report back what that looks like.

1966
02:41:44,360 --> 02:41:51,560
A second paragraph the community development director has the authority to establish voluntary mediation services, which shall not be a prerequisite.

1967
02:41:51,560 --> 02:41:58,140
I'll put up the word pre-prequisite to the issuance of an administrative citation in a community

1968
02:41:58,140 --> 02:42:03,640
education and outreach program related to tenant and property owner rights and responsibilities.

1969
02:42:04,910 --> 02:42:07,640
Thumbs up. Okay. Sir.

1970
02:42:10,840 --> 02:42:17,270
Does paragraph A give the community development director the authority to implement a

1971
02:42:18,150 --> 02:42:22,730
a system of fees, per unit, fees, on landlords.

1972
02:42:24,310 --> 02:42:27,370
I don't see anything in there that prohibits that.

1973
02:42:35,210 --> 02:42:39,850
Outside of this, I understand it's not a registry,

1974
02:42:40,590 --> 02:42:44,830
but if the city, if the community development director decides,

1975
02:42:44,950 --> 02:42:47,790
well, we've got all of this community involvement,

1976
02:42:48,170 --> 02:42:50,150
we need to get compensated for this.

1977
02:42:50,490 --> 02:42:52,270
Any kind of fee would have to go to Council

1978
02:42:52,270 --> 02:42:54,690
for adoption as part of our fee schedule.

1979
02:42:55,390 --> 02:43:01,190
So beyond what you see here as civil penalties or for small claims, there would not be any other fees related to that.

1980
02:43:01,570 --> 02:43:08,850
So I want to speak to the Mediation Services because I think it really creates an opportunity to resolve issues.

1981
02:43:09,310 --> 02:43:16,130
I know that there's a prevailing thought sometimes that we want to punish the other party.

1982
02:43:16,130 --> 02:43:27,130
And I think we'd be better served as a community to reset the standard and what I'd like to see is

1983
02:43:28,670 --> 02:43:30,170
a mediation of these.

1984
02:43:30,470 --> 02:43:30,910
Some won't.

1985
02:43:31,030 --> 02:43:31,610
The mandatory.

1986
02:43:35,810 --> 02:43:41,550
I think rather than have this here, did we move this?

1987
02:43:41,990 --> 02:43:42,850
We didn't move it.

1988
02:43:42,850 --> 02:43:47,290
So this is going to be a, it will be the first section under enforcement and penalty.

1989
02:43:47,490 --> 02:44:00,110
So as far as the, the, the outreach, the education, the, the setup for this, that's, I think, I believe that's going to be a really critical part of this entire ordinance.

1990
02:44:00,530 --> 02:44:03,350
What we want to do is we want to diffuse issues.

1991
02:44:03,610 --> 02:44:05,430
We want to keep people,

1992
02:44:07,670 --> 02:44:09,090
like the gentleman to my right.

1993
02:44:09,090 --> 02:44:20,350
So we want to keep owners here and have some resolution to issues that arise in that if

1994
02:44:20,350 --> 02:44:26,230
and diffuse problems rather than it be hard and fast, everything goes to the housing

1995
02:44:26,230 --> 02:44:31,050
right center and it's, so I think that's really going to be important to the context of

1996
02:44:31,050 --> 02:44:33,310
this overall that's the success here.

1997
02:44:33,830 --> 02:44:36,510
So just to clarify, the housing right center would be the one doing this.

1998
02:44:36,510 --> 02:44:37,610
Yes, that's always going to clarify.

1999
02:44:38,030 --> 02:44:38,110
Yes.

2000
02:44:38,110 --> 02:44:43,070
the mediation service will be free to the housing rights center. Yes. And I believe that

2001
02:44:45,250 --> 02:44:45,730
part of

2002
02:44:46,590 --> 02:44:51,730
part of council requires by the housing rights center if it's in the scope of work is reporting. Or

2003
02:44:51,730 --> 02:44:58,230
there's an annual report on how many people, how many mediation, how many of this. So it'll be public information

2004
02:44:58,230 --> 02:44:59,450
as far as I understand.

2005
02:45:00,020 --> 02:45:16,320
I do think that's really important to clarify that it doesn't necessarily have to be mandatory, but that's the first cause, that's the first action that we take in diffusing issues rather than going all the way with it.

2006
02:45:16,320 --> 02:45:28,500
And I don't know how to, I don't know what the contract states with Housing Rights Center, but I just think that's, look, we all live here, and we want this to work if we, whatever it may get work, that's really make it work.

2007
02:45:28,500 --> 02:45:33,760
So, just for clarification, Matt, are you recommending that the electronic me say I'm

2008
02:45:33,760 --> 02:45:34,040
over?

2009
02:45:34,260 --> 02:45:35,740
Let me try to get this right in my little notes.

2010
02:45:36,120 --> 02:45:41,060
Are you recommending that it's a prerequisite before civil action to do mediation?

2011
02:45:41,700 --> 02:45:43,140
Or tips, voluntary mediation?

2012
02:45:44,140 --> 02:45:45,560
Or should I encourage voluntary mediation?

2013
02:45:45,880 --> 02:45:46,640
Without a doubt.

2014
02:45:48,440 --> 02:45:51,020
I think it's, I was so underneath.

2015
02:45:51,260 --> 02:45:56,920
Regquisite to making this is a successful program because again, those that don't want

2016
02:45:56,920 --> 02:46:04,440
participate. You take your chances. But I think offering that up front is really going to

2017
02:46:04,440 --> 02:46:07,500
resolve many of the issues if they, if we see issues.

2018
02:46:08,060 --> 02:46:12,760
I believe that I believe that our lease agreements that we're using at CIT in our CRE

2019
02:46:12,760 --> 02:46:21,980
form has a agreement to mediate prior to litigation. So, I think that we, if we do have

2020
02:46:21,980 --> 02:46:25,820
that if the lease agreement says, we're going to go into

2021
02:46:25,820 --> 02:46:29,680
intimidation, then if I would say that the voluntary,

2022
02:46:29,980 --> 02:46:33,260
unless by a prior agreement.

2023
02:46:50,690 --> 02:46:57,870
I see that as an issue where, let's say the lease has that provision,

2024
02:46:58,870 --> 02:47:03,950
and let's say it's a griegeous behavior, and the tenant is somehow able to find

2025
02:47:03,950 --> 02:47:11,030
attorney, and then the landlord has an attorney, and it would be up to the landlord to then say,

2026
02:47:11,610 --> 02:47:14,810
you know, let's go to the Housing Rights Center, and that will count as mediation.

2027
02:47:19,150 --> 02:47:20,410
That's not what I'm talking about.

2028
02:47:20,530 --> 02:47:23,070
Yeah, but I think that's what he's talking about.

2029
02:47:23,230 --> 02:47:24,670
Okay, but that's a separate issue.

2030
02:47:24,990 --> 02:47:32,910
That would be the landlord's choice to decide to accept HRC mediation as mediation as envisioned by the lease.

2031
02:47:48,060 --> 02:47:54,500
I disagree that should not be made a requirement and didn't you say that you can't anyways.

2032
02:47:54,920 --> 02:47:57,060
It's a hypothetical situation.

2033
02:48:00,270 --> 02:48:02,510
What you're proposing is hypothetical.

2034
02:48:02,510 --> 02:48:18,750
Can the city mandate an HRC be the initial mediator and put something in there that, if you're going to rent a lease in the city of Ventura, the landlord or the property owners have to go to HRC rather than paying private mediation services?

2035
02:48:19,290 --> 02:48:29,670
Because, again, I'll be the research guide that says there's a lot of research that says private mediation tends to get one by the people who pay for them, and in these cases it's most likely going to be property.

2036
02:48:29,670 --> 02:48:40,730
The only hesitation I would throw out with having HRC specified in the ordinance is it may not be HRC years from now the offers mediation services on behalf of the city

2037
02:48:40,730 --> 02:48:42,410
So we could use something

2038
02:48:42,410 --> 02:48:44,290
City qualified

2039
02:48:45,070 --> 02:48:48,510
Yeah, leave it general enough so we don't have to touch the ordinance

2040
02:48:48,510 --> 02:48:50,370
But we can get the intent

2041
02:48:51,330 --> 02:48:51,850
So

2042
02:48:51,850 --> 02:49:02,830
We may have issue with that because people that do it right have, you know, insurance and our insurance carrier may mandate who we have.

2043
02:49:03,850 --> 02:49:04,870
So how about?

2044
02:49:05,810 --> 02:49:08,630
So how about going, you know, we have a lot of notes here.

2045
02:49:08,730 --> 02:49:13,690
I think what I'm the undercurrent is strongly encouraged mediation.

2046
02:49:14,310 --> 02:49:19,430
As I think something that we could at least put on ever thumbs down.

2047
02:49:52,280 --> 02:49:58,800
So let's say a least provision has mediation as required before what?

2048
02:49:59,960 --> 02:50:06,820
It's not required it has to be in the least, both parties need to agree to it.

2049
02:50:07,540 --> 02:50:12,340
So if they agree to it, they sign up, they agree that they're going to do mediation if anything should happen.

2050
02:50:12,340 --> 02:50:19,120
Okay, so then that would be if the tenant is able to find an attorney and if the attorney

2051
02:50:19,120 --> 02:50:41,020
files a lot, so then it would be up to the defendant's attorney to say, we haven't done

2052
02:50:46,200 --> 02:50:50,340
That would be up to the landlord attorney to assert that defense.

2053
02:50:50,740 --> 02:50:54,340
You can, you know, summary judgment or, you know, file something to say we haven't in

2054
02:50:54,340 --> 02:50:54,740
Mediation.

2055
02:50:55,180 --> 02:51:00,480
Or the landlord could say, let's do, I agree to HRC Mediation.

2056
02:51:00,660 --> 02:51:06,120
Cannot force them to use it, because as you pointed out, maybe the insurance

2057
02:51:06,120 --> 02:51:07,120
requires something else.

2058
02:51:07,420 --> 02:51:08,740
So I don't see it conflicting.

2059
02:51:08,740 --> 02:51:17,480
I think that's an issue between, you know, a representative party to hopefully representative party, if it gets to that point.

2060
02:51:17,500 --> 02:51:23,900
So I think we have comments here on the screen that kind of articulate the conversation here.

2061
02:51:24,480 --> 02:51:33,740
So let's pin this and just have it be, you know, for our decision makers to take a look at and consider unless there's,

2062
02:51:33,740 --> 02:51:38,180
I just want to be cognizant that we have about 10 minutes left.

2063
02:51:39,360 --> 02:51:40,840
We're almost done.

2064
02:51:42,420 --> 02:51:54,000
The third paragraph under this portion is the community development director shall create a document regarding the rights and responsibilities of tenants and property owners under this chapter.

2065
02:51:54,440 --> 02:51:59,780
Property owner shall provide this document to tenants upon execution and renewal of a lease agreement.

2066
02:51:59,780 --> 02:52:04,670
I see some thumbs up.

2067
02:52:08,040 --> 02:52:11,900
So we're at E. Third paragraph under E on page 4.

2068
02:52:16,120 --> 02:52:16,120
Yeah.

2069
02:52:18,500 --> 02:52:20,380
Just say yeah.

2070
02:52:22,270 --> 02:52:23,870
Part of the least packet.

2071
02:52:26,990 --> 02:52:35,330
Yes. I'm not seeing any hands right now. So we'll keep on to. Okay.

2072
02:52:42,660 --> 02:52:44,020
Okay. Thank you.

2073
02:52:44,020 --> 02:52:50,580
Moving on to 910, 080, non-exclusive remedies and penalties, and we're near the finish line folks.

2074
02:52:51,800 --> 02:52:59,380
The remedies provided in this chapter are not exclusive and nothing shall preclude any person from seeking any other remedies penalties or procedures provided by law.

2075
02:53:01,360 --> 02:53:03,600
910, 090, several ability.

2076
02:53:04,200 --> 02:53:12,900
If any section subsection sentence clause phrase part or portion of this chapter is for any reason held to be invalid or unconstitutional by any court

2077
02:53:12,900 --> 02:53:18,440
of competent jurisdiction. Such decision will not affect the validity of the remaining portions

2078
02:53:18,440 --> 02:53:23,060
of this ordinance. The city council declares its intent to adopt the ordinance irrespective

2079
02:53:23,060 --> 02:53:26,980
of the potential envelope in validity of any part.

2080
02:53:29,740 --> 02:53:31,680
And then we were prohibited. Anyway,

2081
02:53:31,780 --> 02:53:35,200
we have rights under this chapter shall be void as contrary to public policy.

2082
02:53:37,590 --> 02:53:39,950
You guys did it. Good job.

2083
02:53:41,840 --> 02:53:47,760
Thank you so much for taking more than the a lot of time here.

2084
02:53:48,300 --> 02:53:49,500
Really appreciate your feedback.

2085
02:53:49,960 --> 02:53:52,720
If you think of anything else,

2086
02:53:54,180 --> 02:53:58,840
housing services at cityof Ventura.ca.gov.

2087
02:53:59,380 --> 02:54:02,640
Again, housing services at cityof Ventura.ca.gov.

2088
02:54:03,640 --> 02:54:05,760
Buy next Friday, please.

2089
02:54:06,900 --> 02:54:10,620
You could also email me, Leona or Rachel.

2090
02:54:10,620 --> 02:54:17,740
I have business cards here. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you.