[0:00] to personal matters. Please make a
[0:02] motion for recess. For those
[0:04] participating by phone, please keep your
[0:06] device muted unless you are speaking.
[0:09] When speaking, kindly state your name
[0:11] for the benefit of those viewing the
[0:13] live stream. As a reminder, this meeting
[0:16] is being broadcast live. The camera is
[0:18] located above the clock at the back of
[0:20] the council chambers. Our proceedings
[0:22] follow Robert's rules of order as set
[0:25] forth in Wasillo Municipal Code
[0:27] 2.04.090.
[0:28] 090 to promote an orderly and respectful
[0:32] meeting. I respectfully ask the council
[0:34] to observe the following rules. Please
[0:36] seek recognization before speaking. No
[0:40] member may speak more than twice on the
[0:42] same motion without a vote to suspend
[0:43] the rules. No member may speak a second
[0:46] time until all who wish to speak have
[0:48] had an opportunity to do so. These
[0:51] guidelines help ensure fairness,
[0:53] efficiency, and mutual respect during
[0:55] our discussions.
[0:57] Madame Clerk, please call the role.
[1:00] >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Mayor. Council
[1:01] » Thank you, Madam Deputy Mayor. Council
[1:01] member Codle
[1:02] >> here. Council member Graham
[1:04] » here. Council member Graham
[1:04] >> here.
[1:04] » here.
[1:04] >> Council member Smith
[1:06] » Council member Smith
[1:06] >> here.
[1:06] » here.
[1:06] >> Council member Crafton
[1:07] » Council member Crafton
[1:07] >> here.
[1:08] » here.
[1:08] >> Council member Johnson
[1:10] » Council member Johnson
[1:10] >> here.
[1:11] » here.
[1:11] >> He is participating telephonically. And
[1:14] » He is participating telephonically. And
[1:14] Council Member Rubio, Deputy Mayor
[1:16] >> here.
[1:17] » here.
[1:17] >> Thank you. You do have a quorum. All
[1:18] » Thank you. You do have a quorum. All
[1:18] members are with us in chambers except
[1:20] Johnson who is participating
[1:22] telephonically.
[1:23] >> Thank you. Please rise for the pledge of
[1:25] » Thank you. Please rise for the pledge of
[1:25] allegiance. Council member Codle, would
[1:26] you please lead us?
[1:28] >> My pleasure.
[1:30] » My pleasure.
[1:30] >> I pledge algiance to the flag of the
[1:33] » I pledge algiance to the flag of the
[1:33] United States of America and to the
[1:36] republic for which it stands, one nation
[1:39] under God, indivisible, with liberty and
[1:42] justice for all.
[1:48] » The next item of business is approval of
[1:50] the agenda. Before changes are
[1:52] discussed, are there conflicts of
[1:54] interest to declare?
[1:57] Hearing none, I would like to move AM
[1:59] number 25-61,
[2:01] item 8.41,
[2:03] from the consent agenda and place it
[2:05] under new business, item 10.2.
[2:08] It has come to my attention that one of
[2:10] the applicants resides outside the city
[2:12] limits.
[2:14] Are there additional changes to the
[2:16] agenda?
[2:19] Hearing none, the agenda is approved as
[2:21] amended by anonymous consent. Is there
[2:24] an objection?
[2:27] The agenda is approved as amended. There
[2:30] are no special orders of the day. We are
[2:32] now at commissions and agency reports.
[2:36] There does not appear to be anyone from
[2:38] planning department in attendance this
[2:40] evening. Please refer to item 11.2 for
[2:44] commission minutes. Their next schedule
[2:46] meeting is December 9th.
[2:49] At this time, we will hear from Madnus
[2:51] Citna Burough regarding the transition
[2:53] to areawide animal care services. Please
[2:57] come forward and begin your presentation
[2:59] by stating your first and last name.
[3:07] You guys can pull more chairs if you
[3:08] want around that.
[3:17] Madame Deputy Mayor, council members, my
[3:20] name is George Hayes. I'm the deputy
[3:21] burough manager. I've got with me uh the
[3:24] director of animal care, Vanessa Forbes,
[3:28] and the uh chief animal uh control and
[3:31] regulation officer, uh Matt Hardwick.
[3:34] What I'd like to do is just do a brief
[3:36] introduction and then turn some comments
[3:38] over to Vanessa. And then once she is
[3:41] done, we've got uh Matt here to give us
[3:44] some real life examples of why it's kind
[3:47] of not working now and how we think
[3:49] it'll work better. So number one, this
[3:51] started with an offsite uh special
[3:55] meeting by the assembly in August. We
[3:58] had heard already that the some of the
[4:01] cities, if not all, might be interested
[4:03] in an area wide animal care. And so the
[4:06] assembly asked the burough manager to
[4:10] explore that further and see what we uh
[4:12] needed to do for area wide animal care.
[4:15] We checked officially with each one of
[4:18] the cities and the city mayors, managers
[4:21] all were at least in favor of exploring
[4:25] that. So we um we have made up a
[4:28] presentation. We also looked at what the
[4:31] uh kind of the pluses and negatives were
[4:33] for that and we um then kind of brought
[4:39] it to each one of the uh the cities and
[4:42] you're the third one at this point. Um
[4:46] each of them have asked us kind of to
[4:47] come back um and in your case we're
[4:52] we're introducing it today and then
[4:53] we'll come back I understand in December
[4:56] 15th for the public hearing. So, with
[4:59] that, I will turn it over to Vanessa and
[5:02] let her talk. Thank you.
[5:06] >> Good evening, um, Madame Deputy Mayor
[5:09] » Good evening, um, Madame Deputy Mayor
[5:09] and, uh, council members. My name is
[5:11] Vanessa Forbes. I'm the animal care
[5:12] director for animal care and regulation
[5:15] for the burrow. Um, this was brought to
[5:19] me very shortly after I started in
[5:22] February. Um, and as um I've been in
[5:27] this role and working with Matt, um,
[5:30] we've noticed some areas where it it
[5:33] could be a lot more seamless and and
[5:36] better for our residents to be able to
[5:38] um have area powers instead of
[5:41] non-erawide.
[5:42] Um, the biggest area that we're looking
[5:45] at is obviously enforcement. So you have
[5:49] in front of you kind of a table or a
[5:51] chart that outlines the different
[5:53] services that we provide um how those
[5:56] are provided right now to the city and
[5:59] then how they would be provided if we
[6:01] were to go area wide. So that that first
[6:05] row there in blue, enforcement services,
[6:07] is will where you would see the most
[6:11] change and fluidity if we were to go to
[6:14] areawide. Um including our our
[6:17] enforcement of our title 24. Um and then
[6:21] our section does investigations um
[6:24] citations, administrative orders, and
[6:26] all of that that will be taken over by
[6:30] um the bureau. So, I'm going to pass it
[6:32] over to Matt. He's been with us for for
[6:36] since the dawn of time. Um, he's been
[6:38] with us for a very long time, so he's
[6:41] been able to have some some direct
[6:43] experience with how it's been working
[6:46] >> and we'll all be available for questions
[6:48] » and we'll all be available for questions
[6:48] after.
[6:51] » Evening, ma'am, deputy mayor, council
[6:53] members. My name is Matt Hardwig. I'm
[6:55] the chief animal care and regulation
[6:57] officer for the bureau. I've been
[6:58] working for animal care regulation for
[7:00] the bureau for 22 years. So I have seen
[7:03] the challenges and the changes not only
[7:05] in Wasilla city for that time frame um
[7:08] but with the burrow. [clears throat] Our
[7:10] relationship with the city has been has
[7:12] been good over the years but I've seen a
[7:14] lot of conflict and not with the city or
[7:17] with the the enforcement but with the
[7:19] citizens and between the cities and the
[7:22] bureaus. The problem that conflict I'm
[7:24] talking about is when something crosses
[7:28] boundaries and I can't enforce our laws
[7:31] in your city and your city can't enforce
[7:33] it in our burrow. To give you an example
[7:35] of uh a dog from the Wasil city crosses
[7:41] into burough boundary, bites a child and
[7:43] then goes back. We cannot enforce those
[7:46] ordinances for across our boundaries.
[7:49] Um, another example of a problem we've
[7:51] come across, um, [clears throat] this
[7:53] was probably the most com complex one
[7:55] was Palmer City had a warrant for a
[7:58] house in Wasilla City and I went and
[8:00] took the animals out of the house. Whose
[8:03] jurisdiction does that fall underneath
[8:04] for enforcement of those animals?
[8:07] It solved itself, so I didn't have to
[8:09] worry about it, but it was still what do
[8:11] we do? Um, so this going area or having
[8:14] a one ordinance for all burough and city
[8:17] res residents has been a wish of mine.
[8:19] Um, it's very difficult for me when I
[8:21] get a call from a city resident and tell
[8:25] them I can't help them. Um, whether it's
[8:27] the city can help them or not, it's
[8:29] something that's a struggle for us. Uh,
[8:31] so this is to have a one ordinance, a
[8:34] one-stop shop, a a one place for all
[8:38] Burough residents to go because we're
[8:40] all living here together basically, even
[8:42] cities and burough residents. Um, now I
[8:45] am open to any questions, any any
[8:47] concerns about how this would work.
[8:53] » Deputy mayor,
[8:56] >> thank you.
[8:56] » thank you.
[8:56] >> Uh, actually this question is for
[8:59] » Uh, actually this question is for
[8:59] Vanessa. Thank you number one. Thank for
[9:01] being here. I talked about uh you know
[9:04] once again the first magic line on your
[9:07] handout here and it talks about uh
[9:12] city
[9:14] and burrow cooperating. So if a city
[9:18] resident calls and says, "Hey, I have a
[9:20] trouble with my neighbors got three dogs
[9:23] barking all night."
[9:25] uh
[9:27] can the city respond to that with our uh
[9:30] code folks and say, "Hey, there's a
[9:32] problem here. I'm going to turn it over
[9:34] to the bureau," or are we kind of out of
[9:36] the loop alto together on that?
[9:38] >> So, if it's within city jurisdiction,
[9:42] » So, if it's within city jurisdiction,
[9:42] then it falls to you. um we can shelter
[9:44] those animals if we get a call from you
[9:46] saying we need a place for these animals
[9:49] and um you can bring them to the shelter
[9:51] but that would lie with um with the
[9:53] city.
[9:54] >> So the normal enforcement procedures
[9:56] » So the normal enforcement procedures
[9:56] other than
[9:58] >> sheltering
[9:58] » sheltering
[9:58] >> sheltering would continue to remain with
[10:00] » sheltering would continue to remain with
[10:00] the city
[10:02] >> as it is right now.
[10:03] » as it is right now.
[10:03] >> Correct. Correct. Thank you.
[10:11] If I can expand on that, when you said
[10:14] would continue to, you mean if we don't
[10:17] go area
[10:19] cuz right right now,
[10:20] >> if you do go area wide, George,
[10:23] » if you do go area wide, George,
[10:23] >> I mean, currently the city has these
[10:26] » I mean, currently the city has these
[10:26] animal regulation
[10:28] issues. Uh but my
[10:32] my question had to do with specific
[10:34] enforcement of Wasilla City Code that
[10:36] deals with, you know, you can't have six
[10:38] cattle on your condominium property.
[10:40] >> I mean, is our
[10:42] » I mean, is our
[10:42] uh our code enforcement guy
[10:45] >> going to be able or woman, you know,
[10:47] » going to be able or woman, you know,
[10:47] whoever it is at the time,
[10:49] >> going to be able to go in and say, "Hey,
[10:51] » going to be able to go in and say, "Hey,
[10:51] there's a problem here. If you don't fix
[10:53] it, I'm going to call the burrow and the
[10:55] burrow is going to take these or may
[10:56] take these animals." I mean, are we do
[10:58] we still have control of our code when
[11:01] it comes to animals or does everything
[11:04] shift over to the burrow?
[11:06] >> Once you go area wide or if we go area
[11:09] » Once you go area wide or if we go area
[11:09] wide, then everything shifts over to the
[11:11] burrow and your co your code would then
[11:13] become null and void. Now, I will say
[11:17] that if you have a particular part of
[11:19] your code, and I've told this to the
[11:21] other two cities as well, and let's say
[11:23] you have a a code that says we require
[11:27] all dogs within the city limits to be to
[11:31] have licenses. Well, we don't have that
[11:34] in burough code anymore. So if you
[11:37] wanted that then you could petition the
[11:39] assembly and say we'd like this and
[11:41] other portions of our current code to
[11:44] remain in effect within the city of
[11:46] Wasilla. And then that you would send
[11:49] that to the assembly and the assembly
[11:51] could pass that then as part of title 24
[11:55] specifically only within the city
[11:57] limits.
[11:58] >> Okay.
[11:59] » Okay.
[11:59] >> Other than that other than that your
[12:01] » Other than that other than that your
[12:01] code would would no longer be in effect.
[12:05] >> Okay. Okay. And I see the city attorney
[12:07] » Okay. Okay. And I see the city attorney
[12:07] u may she add to that madam?
[12:10] >> I just want to add to that and I think
[12:11] » I just want to add to that and I think
[12:11] also hopefully delineated an idea that
[12:14] you're putting forward council member
[12:16] Graham which is we still retain our land
[12:18] use authority. So if you're saying there
[12:22] are only two horses allowed on this on a
[12:25] lot this size which would be which would
[12:28] live in title 16. the animal control
[12:32] component doesn't impact that. We would
[12:35] say there's a violation. You're not
[12:37] using your land properly. Now, if we're
[12:39] going to go into the property and take
[12:41] the horses, that's when we're we're
[12:45] entering into the world of uh uh animal
[12:49] care and regulation. That's now going to
[12:51] be if this pass is transferred to the
[12:53] burrow. And I just want to make sure
[12:55] we're all Yes, ma'am.
[12:56] >> Okay. So,
[12:56] » Okay. So,
[12:56] >> oh yeah, land use is definitely
[12:58] » oh yeah, land use is definitely
[12:58] different than the straight animal code.
[13:00] >> Yes.
[13:01] » Yes.
[13:01] >> Thank you,
[13:03] » Thank you,
[13:03] >> Councilman. Deputy mayor, um, just for
[13:06] » Councilman. Deputy mayor, um, just for
[13:06] clarification purposes, if we're to pass
[13:10] ordinance serial number 2541, it is
[13:12] repealing Wasilla Municipal Code, Title
[13:14] 7, Animal Care and Regulation, and
[13:16] transferring the city's jurisdiction and
[13:19] authority over to animal care with the
[13:21] bureau. So, we would not be doing
[13:24] anything other than animals on land use.
[13:26] Our our title 7 um codes would go away.
[13:31] >> Correct.
[13:31] » Correct.
[13:31] >> Yeah. I just I just wanted that for
[13:33] » Yeah. I just I just wanted that for
[13:33] clarification because I think there's a
[13:34] little bit of of mud with with that.
[13:37] >> Yeah. I just wanted to make sure our
[13:38] » Yeah. I just wanted to make sure our
[13:38] land use
[13:39] >> our land use
[13:40] » our land use
[13:40] >> was not going to be affected by this,
[13:42] » was not going to be affected by this,
[13:42] particularly since we just spent two
[13:44] years working on title 16. [laughter]
[13:49] Madame Deputy Mayor,
[13:50] >> Councilman Craftton,
[13:52] » Councilman Craftton,
[13:52] >> thank you. Thank you guys for being
[13:53] » thank you. Thank you guys for being
[13:53] here. Uh, so just to make sure I also uh
[13:56] heard you correctly, if we wanted to do
[13:58] anything, basically we can put more
[14:01] restrictive measures in place if again
[14:03] we uh wanted licenses to use your
[14:06] example uh for for dogs in the city
[14:08] limits. We could, but we would have to
[14:11] go to the burrow to do that. We couldn't
[14:12] do it at the city level anymore.
[14:14] Essentially, we would have to in essence
[14:17] create a resolution stating that this is
[14:18] what we want uh or modify the ordinance
[14:21] before us prior to sending it off to the
[14:23] bureau. And that might jump to Holly or
[14:26] or both of you, but just to clarify,
[14:28] that's what I'm understanding correctly.
[14:29] >> Yes, I think at this stage you're
[14:31] » Yes, I think at this stage you're
[14:31] looking at a whole transfer of the
[14:33] animal regulations and control. Um, I
[14:36] think because of the areawwide
[14:40] concerted effort, if we do want to
[14:42] peacemeal that at all, I think that
[14:44] those discussions would need to go back
[14:47] because what was anticipated by the
[14:48] administration is bringing forward a,
[14:50] you know, a full transfer.
[14:55] » Thank you. No other questions.
[14:59] » There's no further questions. Thank you
[15:01] guys.
[15:02] >> Thank you.
[15:05] » Thank you.
[15:05] We are now at public hearing. Madame
[15:07] clerk, please read the ordinance by
[15:08] title.
[15:09] >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Mayor. First
[15:11] » Thank you, Madam Deputy Mayor. First
[15:11] public hearing this evening is ordinance
[15:12] serial number 2537 repealing Wasilla
[15:16] Municipal Code Chapter 1655 downtown
[15:19] overlay district and amending Wasilla
[15:21] Municipal Code 161025
[15:24] definitions 165010
[15:26] overlay districts and 161201
[15:30] decisions subject to appeal to remove
[15:32] the downtown overlay district in
[15:34] references to that district from Wasilla
[15:36] Municipal Code Title 16.
[15:40] The public hearing on ordinance serial
[15:42] number 25-37 is now open. Anyone wishing
[15:46] to testify, please come forward and
[15:48] begin by stating your first and last
[15:50] name. Comments are limited to three
[15:52] minutes per person.
[16:01] Good evening, madame deputy mayor,
[16:03] council members. My name is David Seals.
[16:06] I'm the current chair of the Wasilla
[16:08] Planning Commission. Um, I'm
[16:13] really excited that this is coming
[16:14] before you tonight for a vote. This is
[16:17] something that a lot of people have
[16:19] worked on for a long time to remove this
[16:22] restrictions from this area. It is a
[16:27] commercial dead zone and has been for a
[16:30] long time because of restrictions.
[16:32] So, uh, I urge that this be passed and
[16:37] if a downtown overlay needs to be done
[16:40] in the future, it can be something that
[16:42] could be looked at. But for now, this
[16:44] all needs to revert back to commercial
[16:47] property and DOT needs to be informed if
[16:50] this is a past that the downtown overlay
[16:54] no longer affects the plans for the
[16:56] couplet. Thank you very much.
[17:06] Seeing nobody else, the public hearing
[17:09] is closed. Is there a motion to adopt
[17:11] ordinance serial number 25-37?
[17:14] >> Madame Deputy Mayor, [clears throat]
[17:16] » Madame Deputy Mayor, [clears throat]
[17:16] I move ordinance serial number 2537.
[17:19] >> Is there a second?
[17:20] » Is there a second?
[17:20] >> I'll second that.
[17:22] » I'll second that.
[17:22] It's been moved by Council Member
[17:24] Craftton and seconded by Council Member
[17:26] Schmidt to adopt ordinance serial number
[17:28] 25-37.
[17:30] Is there discussion?
[17:32] >> Madam Deputy Mayor,
[17:33] » Madam Deputy Mayor,
[17:33] >> Councilman Craftton,
[17:34] » Councilman Craftton,
[17:34] >> thank you. Uh, I am very excited about
[17:37] » thank you. Uh, I am very excited about
[17:37] this one.
[17:39] Uh, this has probably been one of the
[17:41] top complaints that I've gotten from
[17:44] business owners uh here in the city of
[17:46] Wasola. And so I think uh this is a very
[17:49] good thing that we uh are looking at
[17:51] repealing this. I know we had this
[17:53] conversation during title 16 and again I
[17:56] was glad we separated them just because
[17:58] there was it it was it was a lot to work
[17:59] with trying to do both of them at the
[18:01] same time. Um but the other thing that
[18:03] really excites me about this is being
[18:05] able to look at our code and go, "Hey,
[18:07] this just doesn't work for people." And
[18:10] going, "That's okay. We can undo things.
[18:13] We can just get rid of things because
[18:16] it's not working." Um, I feel like a lot
[18:18] of times the government puts thing in
[18:20] things in place and then they want to
[18:21] try and patch it and fix it and try and
[18:24] find a way to make it work because there
[18:25] was a reason why it was put in in the
[18:27] first place. But sometimes you just have
[18:28] to go, "No, this didn't work. We're
[18:30] going to get rid of it and we're going
[18:31] to start over." And uh I'm not saying we
[18:34] need to start over and put another
[18:35] downtown overlay uh in place, but uh
[18:37] like what Mr. Seals said was that uh if
[18:40] there is one necessary for the future,
[18:42] you know, it's a completely different
[18:43] process that we're going to be looking
[18:44] at doing. But I am in full support of
[18:47] repealing the downtown overlay district
[18:49] and I know a lot of people and a lot of
[18:51] business owners will be excited to hear
[18:52] that this gets passed tonight.
[18:58] » Councilman um
[19:00] >> Stu. Yeah, that's me.
[19:01] » Stu. Yeah, that's me.
[19:01] >> No, Graham.
[19:04] » No, Graham.
[19:04] >> Yeah,
[19:06] » Yeah,
[19:06] thank you Councilman Craftton. Good
[19:08] words there. And I too think this needs
[19:11] to be repealed. But I think when it came
[19:13] forward initially, it was a
[19:17] a grand idea. You know, let's revitalize
[19:19] the downtown. Let's let's figure out
[19:21] what makes it work. And this idea was
[19:24] brought in, you know, from other uh
[19:26] small cities uh larger than us, but
[19:28] other small cities to try and revitalize
[19:30] the down revitalize the downtown. So, I
[19:32] I certainly don't want the planning
[19:34] commission uh or the city council to
[19:36] think that they wasted their time on
[19:37] this, but I do think it's important that
[19:39] we uh you know, as uh elected office
[19:44] holders say, you know, hey, we made a
[19:46] mistake. Let's let's fix it. And this is
[19:48] fixing that mistake.
[19:53] » Councilman Schmid.
[19:54] >> Yeah. I also agree um in repealing this
[19:57] » Yeah. I also agree um in repealing this
[19:57] uh as many of the businesses that I
[19:59] talked to, it literally inhibited a lot
[20:01] of different things for business to grow
[20:04] and uh I think getting rid of this is
[20:06] going to be a wise decision.
[20:11] » Madam, Madame Deputy Mayor, Council
[20:13] Member Schmidt, I think we have a
[20:15] microphone problem, so if we could take
[20:16] a brief at ease to get him
[20:19] um a mic, that would be great.
[20:22] [laughter]
[20:23] Darth Vader entered the room.
[20:25] >> We need to start doing some checks at
[20:27] » We need to start doing some checks at
[20:27] the beginning of meetings.
[20:30] » The elected officials need to bring
[20:31] their own mic.
[20:34] [clears throat]
[20:35] >> Thank you.
[20:37] » Thank you.
[20:37] >> Is there further discussion?
[20:41] » Is there further discussion?
[20:41] Hearing none. Is there an objection to
[20:43] the motion?
[20:47] Hearing none. The motion is adopted.
[20:56] Madam clerk, please read ordinance
[20:58] serial number 25-38 by title.
[21:01] >> Thank you. That's amending the fiscal
[21:02] » Thank you. That's amending the fiscal
[21:02] year 2026 budget by accepting and
[21:05] appropriating 340,000
[21:08] from an amendment to the Matnus casuous
[21:09] sit contract to add two new full-time
[21:13] positions at MATCOM. One fire EMS call
[21:16] taker and one dispatcher.
[21:19] The public hearing on ordinance serial
[21:21] number 25-38 is now open. Anyone wishing
[21:25] to testify, please come forward and
[21:27] begin by stating your first and last
[21:29] name.
[21:33] No takers. Okay. Is there a motion to
[21:36] adopt ordinance serial number 25-38?
[21:39] >> Madame Deputy Mayor, I move to adopt
[21:42] » Madame Deputy Mayor, I move to adopt
[21:42] ordinance serial number 2538.
[21:45] >> Is there a second?
[21:48] » Is there a second?
[21:48] Graham seconds.
[21:51] >> It has been moved by council member
[21:52] » It has been moved by council member
[21:52] Codle and seconded by council member
[21:55] Graham to adopt ordinance serial number
[21:57] 2538. Is there discussion?
[22:02] » Councilman Graham.
[22:03] >> Thank you. I I do have just one question
[22:07] » Thank you. I I do have just one question
[22:07] here and hopefully
[22:10] Matt H director can answer it. I mean,
[22:12] we're accepting $340,000
[22:15] uh for these
[22:17] two positions. Is there some sort of,
[22:20] you know, handshake agreement with the
[22:22] bureau that we will continue to do this?
[22:24] Because what we're doing here is we're
[22:25] adding PERS
[22:27] positions here and if the bureau thinks
[22:31] that this is going to be a temporary
[22:33] situation, I'm I'm concerned.
[22:36] >> It's not. Sorry. I'm sorry. Um, can we
[22:40] » It's not. Sorry. I'm sorry. Um, can we
[22:40] ask the TED
[22:43] finance for PERS
[22:44] >> for PERS?
[22:55] uh through uh Deputy Mayor Rubio to uh
[23:00] Council Member Graham is that we have a
[23:04] total number of uh positions and as long
[23:09] as my understanding is we don't do away
[23:11] with the full class
[23:14] that if something would happen and we
[23:16] had to lay off people it wouldn't cause
[23:19] a termination study is my understanding.
[23:23] ing
[23:25] for the
[23:28] >> yeah the problem with PERS I mean a lot
[23:30] » yeah the problem with PERS I mean a lot
[23:30] of times those termination studies those
[23:32] additional costs arise when you
[23:33] eliminate a classification so and that's
[23:36] a that's something we have to think
[23:37] about where a size arcity is of a size
[23:40] that we might eliminate a department if
[23:42] we create a department so we're we're
[23:45] always careful um in that way but this
[23:48] doesn't trigger those types of concerns
[23:53] I'm glad to hear that. But I I would be
[23:54] interested in the other question. I
[23:56] mean, is does the bureau consider this
[23:58] to be a semi-permanent arrangement? I
[24:01] mean, they didn't say, "Let's just try
[24:02] this for a year and see what happens."
[24:04] Or
[24:05] >> they're wanting to try it with the
[24:06] » they're wanting to try it with the
[24:06] part-time uh additional person and then
[24:11] they will continue. They're intent is to
[24:13] continue with the part-time on for the
[24:16] next um contract bid.
[24:20] they may want to go ahead and go a extra
[24:23] full-time person. So, that's what I look
[24:25] for to happen is they'll want another
[24:27] person to add next year, but they were
[24:30] hoping to get this done sooner rather
[24:32] than later so that they can have time to
[24:34] study it before their next budget cycle
[24:36] and make sure they can add another
[24:38] person, too.
[24:40] And are we letting these people that
[24:42] we're bringing on know that this is a
[24:45] temporarily funded position or
[24:48] >> um
[24:48] » um
[24:48] >> test position?
[24:49] » test position?
[24:49] >> We haven't had that discussion yet
[24:51] » We haven't had that discussion yet
[24:51] because we're waiting for confirmation
[24:53] to get this approved. So
[24:58] » I deputy mayor
[24:59] >> Councilman Craftton.
[25:00] » Councilman Craftton.
[25:00] >> Thank you. Sorry. Did you say they're
[25:02] » Thank you. Sorry. Did you say they're
[25:02] wanting to do a part-time position
[25:04] first? Well, it's um they're we're
[25:10] putting an extra person on just halfime.
[25:13] So, adding those two positions is only
[25:15] covering 12 hours out of each day.
[25:19] >> Sorry, Miss Craftton. Yeah, we're going
[25:22] » Sorry, Miss Craftton. Yeah, we're going
[25:22] to relay over to Ted.
[25:24] >> Oh, thanks. Uh, Deputy Mayor and
[25:29] » Oh, thanks. Uh, Deputy Mayor and
[25:29] uh to Councilman Ian, we are requesting
[25:33] two full-time positions,
[25:35] >> correct,
[25:35] » correct,
[25:35] >> for this contract that would go forward
[25:40] » for this contract that would go forward
[25:40] if the council or if the Matsu Burough
[25:44] would uh do an appropriation next year.
[25:48] So this contract amendment that we have
[25:50] for the 340,000
[25:53] is for just FY26
[25:57] and the understanding is that these
[26:00] people are needed and it's doing the or
[26:03] these positions are doing what the
[26:06] bureau is expecting the positions to do
[26:09] that they would come back with another
[26:12] subject to appropriation amendment in
[26:15] FY27.
[26:17] But yes, the
[26:21] [snorts] it is understood in our
[26:23] meetings with uh the
[26:27] burough manager that if
[26:30] we didn't get an amendment
[26:33] next year through the appropriation
[26:36] process in January through June that
[26:41] those two positions would be eliminated.
[26:47] Thank you. Answers my question.
[26:50] >> Is there further discussion
[26:55] » hearing? None.
[26:57] Is there an objection to the motion?
[27:02] Hearing none, the motion is adopted.
[27:10] We are now at persons to be heard. a
[27:13] time for members of the public to share
[27:15] their views with the council. Please
[27:16] note that this is not a question and
[27:18] answer period. Speakers may be referred
[27:20] to administration and items raised may
[27:23] be taken under advisement. Please begin
[27:26] your testimony by stating your first and
[27:28] last name and if you are a city
[27:29] resident, comments are limited to three
[27:32] minutes. First one is William Baxter.
[27:47] I'm I'm William Baxter. I'm from
[27:49] Anchorage, but I used to live out here.
[27:51] My parents lived up fish for uh many
[27:55] years. And uh and um and uh I were I
[28:00] volunteered for FFA and other things I
[28:04] do and and I was at the Graange last
[28:06] night, which is a agriculture program.
[28:08] It's been around since the 1800s. And uh
[28:12] one of the things I I'm trying to do,
[28:14] I'm trying to get a a graange in
[28:16] Anchorage, but also Graange could help
[28:19] with uh like gardening. I think it'd be
[28:23] a good idea to we're we're in Anchorage,
[28:26] we got in Fairview, we have two
[28:29] community gardens and it's a it's a good
[28:32] way to get get the family, you know,
[28:34] people interested in in farming and and
[28:37] uh uh gardening and that and uh it's
[28:41] just a uh I I when I was live when I
[28:45] lived out here in Wasola, my parents my
[28:48] mom was raised on a farm and uh and my
[28:51] dad was uh you know, He liked to uh uh
[28:54] raise chickens and turkeys and that up
[28:56] here on was fish hook and uh and when we
[29:00] were kids we we had our we had ducks and
[29:02] geese and that and 4 is a another good
[29:06] thing one I uh I volunteer for and I I
[29:11] think we need to uh expand our farming
[29:14] more. One of the things I noticed is uh
[29:17] farming is hidden in in in Alaska. When
[29:22] you go white people uh have boats and
[29:25] fishing boats and four-wheelers and that
[29:28] well you see them go down the road. Do
[29:30] you see tractors go down the road and I
[29:33] you come out here now I don't from Wasel
[29:36] to uh from Anchorage you don't see no
[29:38] farms out here anymore along the the the
[29:41] highway. And then uh also you go to
[29:44] Palmer, I don't you know uh you don't
[29:47] you don't see any farms there. You used
[29:48] to see them at Four Corners or big
[29:51] potato potato farm, but it's not there
[29:52] anymore.
[29:54] Thank you.
[29:58] » Tim Sterns
[30:02] » or Tom Sterns. Sorry. There you go. My
[30:05] mic's on now. I don't know. Tom Sterns.
[30:06] >> After all these years,
[30:07] » After all these years,
[30:07] >> I know Tom. Sorry.
[30:09] » I know Tom. Sorry.
[30:09] >> Goodness.
[30:09] » Goodness.
[30:10] >> It could be your handwriting. You know,
[30:11] » It could be your handwriting. You know,
[30:11] you should have been a doctor.
[30:13] >> That that could be the problem. Good
[30:16] » That that could be the problem. Good
[30:16] evening. My name is Tom Sterns. I'm the
[30:18] senior ambassador for the Wasel Area
[30:20] Seniors Incorporated. Um, what's
[30:23] happening at Wasi? Well, most of you
[30:27] probably have already picked up your
[30:29] pies from our my oh my, it's pies and uh
[30:34] and so you know that we just completed a
[30:38] fundraiser. But what you don't know is
[30:41] that we were not expecting one to do
[30:44] this this year. And then just at the
[30:48] end, we we said, "Okay, we'll do it."
[30:51] Our expectation was to get probably
[30:54] maybe $2,000 out of the fundraiser.
[30:58] Once everybody started donating pies and
[31:01] stuff, we ended up with uh a total of
[31:06] $7,000
[31:07] as the uh end total. And uh that that
[31:11] was really uh really exciting. So that
[31:15] was that. Now, what's coming up in the
[31:19] future? Well, the future starts um here
[31:23] on uh Wednesday. Wednesday is one of the
[31:28] best meals that you will find uh in the
[31:31] valley uh at Wasi and uh we put in a
[31:37] very big effort to for our Thanksgiving
[31:41] meal and uh you will see that our place
[31:45] is packed out. Uh it will uh probably
[31:50] have uh 150 people there. uh and it will
[31:55] be a great lunch. Uh and so I would
[31:57] encourage you uh if you have the
[32:00] opportunity to be there for that. Then
[32:03] uh on the 23rd of December, we will do
[32:08] it all over again, different motif.
[32:11] It'll be Christmas and we will have
[32:14] another great meal. and uh uh and so we
[32:18] would uh uh request your presence there
[32:22] for that. Now, one other thing that's
[32:25] happening and it's something that you
[32:27] can all help us with. It's the WASI uh
[32:30] Christmas giving. We do this every year.
[32:33] Uh we collect things for seniors and
[32:37] then we put them in a bag and uh on that
[32:41] 23rd of December uh everybody gets
[32:44] together. They have this great meal and
[32:46] the seniors uh get the opportunity and
[32:50] go to get one of these bags.
[32:53] If you saw the smiles and the um on the
[32:59] faces of the people, it may be the only
[33:02] thing that they get for Christmas and
[33:04] they are so excited and so thankful for
[33:08] that. And that's because of our
[33:12] sponsors, people that help us uh with
[33:15] all these things, collecting all these
[33:16] things and putting them all together.
[33:18] So, we thank you for that.
[33:20] >> Madam Deputy Mayor, can I ask him two
[33:22] » Madam Deputy Mayor, can I ask him two
[33:22] quick clarifying questions?
[33:25] >> Go ahead, Craft.
[33:25] » Go ahead, Craft.
[33:26] >> Thank you. Uh Wednesday, what time was
[33:27] » Thank you. Uh Wednesday, what time was
[33:28] the uh the dinner? I don't think I heard
[33:30] what it was.
[33:32] >> I would suggest you be there by 11:00.
[33:34] » I would suggest you be there by 11:00.
[33:34] Uh it will start probably 11:30, but if
[33:37] you want to see it, uh you want to get
[33:39] there about 11:00.
[33:41] >> Perfect. And then another clarifying
[33:43] » Perfect. And then another clarifying
[33:43] question on your uh giving one here. It
[33:46] says that to shop online, are people
[33:48] allowed to to go other places, you know,
[33:50] try and get the other items from other
[33:52] places they want or do you specifically
[33:53] want them purchased from the ways to
[33:55] give online there?
[33:57] >> Uh no, you can get your gifts from any
[34:00] » Uh no, you can get your gifts from any
[34:00] place and then just give send them over
[34:03] to us. Yeah, perfect. Thank you.
[34:05] >> Anything else? Thank you.
[34:07] » Anything else? Thank you.
[34:07] >> Thank you.
[34:09] » Thank you.
[34:10] We [clears throat] are now at the
[34:10] consent agenda. Madame clerk, please
[34:12] read the items for the approval under
[34:14] the consent agenda by title.
[34:16] >> Thank you, Madame Deputy Mayor. Uh
[34:18] » Thank you, Madame Deputy Mayor. Uh
[34:18] regular meeting minutes, November 10th,
[34:20] 2025. We have three introductions for
[34:23] public hearing date on December 15,
[34:25] 2025. The first is ordinance serial
[34:27] number 2539 amending was municipal code
[34:31] section 504060
[34:33] examination of city financial records
[34:36] and financial statements to change the
[34:38] required completion date of the annual
[34:40] audit from November 30 to January 31st.
[34:44] Ordinance serial number 2540 amending
[34:46] Wasilla Municipal Code section 50430
[34:49] general fixed assets to increase the
[34:52] fixed asset capitalization threshold
[34:55] from 5,000 to 10,000. And lastly,
[34:58] ordinance serial number 2541, repealing
[35:00] Wasilla Municipal Code, Title 7, Animal
[35:03] Care and Regulation, to transfer the
[35:05] city's jurisdiction and authority over
[35:07] animal care to the Matanuska Susettna
[35:09] Bureau on an area basis effective upon
[35:12] the burough's acceptance of such
[35:14] jurisdiction and authority. We have no
[35:16] resolutions and our AM was moved to new
[35:18] business. So that's it.
[35:21] >> Is there a motion to approve the consent
[35:23] » Is there a motion to approve the consent
[35:23] agenda as read?
[35:25] Madame Deputy Mayor, I move to approve
[35:27] the consent agenda as read.
[35:29] >> Is there a second?
[35:30] » Is there a second?
[35:30] >> Madam Deputy mayor, I'll second the
[35:31] » Madam Deputy mayor, I'll second the
[35:31] motion.
[35:32] >> It has been moved by Council Member
[35:33] » It has been moved by Council Member
[35:33] Codle and seconded by Councilman Coun
[35:36] Council Member Craftton to approve the
[35:39] consent agenda as read. Is there any
[35:41] objection?
[35:42] >> Madame uh Deputy Mayor, Madam Clerk, did
[35:46] » Madame uh Deputy Mayor, Madam Clerk, did
[35:46] did I not hear you say that minutes of
[35:49] the meeting were part of it?
[35:51] >> You did. You heard me say that.
[35:53] » You did. You heard me say that.
[35:53] >> Okay. Thank you. Hearing
[35:56] » Okay. Thank you. Hearing
[35:56] none, the consent agenda is approved.
[35:59] There is no unfinished business, so
[36:00] we'll move directly to new business. The
[36:03] city attorney will provide ethics
[36:04] training. Madame Deputy mayor, would the
[36:07] council like to take the two action
[36:09] items first if
[36:11] >> Yes, please.
[36:12] » Yes, please.
[36:12] >> Okay.
[36:13] » Okay.
[36:13] >> No offense, Holly. So if there's no
[36:15] » No offense, Holly. So if there's no
[36:15] objection from the body, we'll begin
[36:16] with AM number 2561, confirmation of the
[36:20] mayoral appointment of Tommy Truit, Dan
[36:22] Fleckenstein, and Megan Montigane.
[36:25] Apologize if I botched that last name.
[36:27] To the parks and recreation commission,
[36:29] Aaron McCarthy to the airport advisory
[36:32] commission, and Carolyn D. Young and
[36:34] Simon Brown to the planning commission.
[36:39] » Motion to adopt.
[36:41] >> Is there a [clears throat] motion to
[36:42] » Is there a [clears throat] motion to
[36:42] adopt?
[36:44] Madame Mayor, I move AM2561.
[36:47] >> Is there a second?
[36:48] » Is there a second?
[36:48] >> Codle seconds.
[36:50] » Codle seconds.
[36:50] >> Motion has been moved by Councilman
[36:52] » Motion has been moved by Councilman
[36:52] Graham and second by Council Member
[36:55] Codle to approve.
[36:57] >> Deputy mayor.
[36:59] » Deputy mayor.
[36:59] >> Councilman Craftton.
[37:01] » Councilman Craftton.
[37:01] >> I mean Graham. Whoops.
[37:03] » I mean Graham. Whoops.
[37:03] >> I've been called much worse.
[37:04] » I've been called much worse.
[37:04] >> Okay. Uh I I move to uh postpone to the
[37:08] » Okay. Uh I I move to uh postpone to the
[37:08] next regular meeting u uh due to the
[37:11] fact that this is a mayoral appointments
[37:13] and the mayor is not here to speak to
[37:14] this.
[37:17] >> Is there a second?
[37:19] » Is there a second?
[37:19] >> I'll second the motion.
[37:23] » Want me to read that? You want to read
[37:24] it? No. Is there any objection?
[37:26] >> Is there an objection?
[37:27] » Is there an objection?
[37:27] >> Did we discuss it first? I just had a
[37:29] » Did we discuss it first? I just had a
[37:29] quick question though. Uh mostly just I
[37:32] think it probably be of our clerk uh the
[37:34] Tommy Truit situation here. Are we are
[37:37] we going to just strike it at the next
[37:39] meeting then at this point? It just
[37:40] carries over for now or
[37:42] >> since the motion to postpone has already
[37:44] » since the motion to postpone has already
[37:44] been moved and is on the floor. Um we'll
[37:47] wait to amend.
[37:48] >> Okay. Thank you.
[37:57] » You ready?
[37:59] So no objection then to the
[38:00] postponement.
[38:02] Madame deputy mayor, if I may, we'll
[38:03] move on then to the resolution serial
[38:05] number 2537 authorizing the Matuskus at
[38:08] Nuro to provide areawide animal care
[38:11] services within the city of Wasilla.
[38:14] >> Is there a motion to adopt resolution
[38:16] » Is there a motion to adopt resolution
[38:16] serial number 25-37?
[38:18] >> Madame deputy mayor, I move to adopt
[38:21] » Madame deputy mayor, I move to adopt
[38:21] resolution serial number 2537.
[38:23] >> Is there a second?
[38:27] » Is there a second?
[38:27] Graham seconds.
[38:28] >> It has been moved by Council Member
[38:29] » It has been moved by Council Member
[38:29] Codle and seconded by Council Member
[38:31] Graham to adopt resolution serial number
[38:33] 25-37.
[38:35] Is there discussion?
[38:39] » Council member Graham.
[38:41] >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Mayor. I I I
[38:44] » Thank you, Madam Deputy Mayor. I I I
[38:44] can't think of any reason to object to
[38:46] this. The bureau is the one that has the
[38:48] experience, the continuous continuous
[38:51] experience uh uh dealing with animals.
[38:54] the the burrow uh is the one who owns
[38:57] and operates the animal shelter and and
[38:59] has improved that over time. So, as time
[39:02] goes by, they're getting better and
[39:04] better. Instead of getting more and more
[39:05] complaints, it's getting less and less.
[39:07] So, yeah, this is a uh a wise move for
[39:12] the city to let people with expertise
[39:14] handle this. Thank you.
[39:19] » Is there further discussion
[39:23] hearing? None. Is there an objection to
[39:25] the motion?
[39:28] Hearing none, the motion is adopted.
[39:36] » Next, we have ethics training by city
[39:39] attorney Holly Wells.
[39:43] » Thank you. I'm just gonna I think I use
[39:46] this over here, Sarah, or
[39:48] >> is it on?
[40:00] Okay. So, first I want to say you have a
[40:02] PowerPoint in front of you. We're going
[40:03] to have sort of a ethics training a um
[40:08] that's incorporated into the meeting to
[40:10] the extent that council finds that they
[40:12] want a freestanding independent ethics
[40:14] training at some point and that would be
[40:17] a a conversation with the clerk. Of
[40:18] course, that is something we can do as
[40:20] well. But we thought we'd try this
[40:22] approach first. Um, in part because
[40:24] several council members were on the
[40:27] council when we were um when the ethics
[40:30] code was adopted in 2022 or were engaged
[40:34] in I think there may have been um
[40:36] commission members at that time. So it's
[40:39] a fairly recent code adoption and um so
[40:45] hopefully some of these provisions will
[40:47] feel familiar and there's a greater
[40:51] understanding of them. Uh that said,
[40:53] this is a um 13 or so page PowerPoint
[40:57] and it is designed to be a reference for
[41:00] you even though I don't plan on going
[41:04] through this PowerPoint line by line. I
[41:06] don't think that's in your best
[41:07] interest.
[41:09] Um so moving on, first and foremost, the
[41:12] Wasola Code of Ethics has a really
[41:14] strong purpose statement. Um, and this
[41:18] purpose statement is a guiding
[41:21] interpretation
[41:23] piece for the city. So, as you're trying
[41:25] to when you look at what the prohibited
[41:27] acts are or when you're thinking about
[41:29] your own conduct as an elected official,
[41:33] one of the places to ground yourself is
[41:35] in the purpose statement. I'm going to
[41:36] read that purpose statement because I
[41:39] think that it's helpful to have both in
[41:41] the record and for the public to know,
[41:43] but also as a reminder. The purpose of
[41:46] the Waselis code of ethics uh states
[41:49] that the city expects all city officials
[41:51] to serve the public with equality,
[41:53] honesty, and transparency, and to take
[41:56] actions that the official believes best
[41:58] serve the public and city. The public
[42:00] has a right to conscientious, loyal,
[42:02] faithful, and unbiased service by its
[42:04] officials performed free of deceit,
[42:06] undue influence, conflict of interest,
[42:08] self-enrichment, self-deing,
[42:10] concealment, bribery, fraud, and
[42:12] corruption. The city has an obligation
[42:14] to the public and city officials to
[42:16] establish standards of ethical conduct.
[42:18] Promote ethics education for all city
[42:20] officials. Provide clear guidance to
[42:22] city officials of the ethical procedures
[42:24] and standards of the city. Recommend
[42:26] procedures that promote ethical
[42:28] behavior. And hold city officials
[42:30] responsible and accountable for their
[42:31] behavior. and promote procedures that
[42:34] protect city officials, employees, and
[42:35] members of the public from harassment or
[42:38] retribution should they raise concerns
[42:40] about activities that do not appear to
[42:42] be in line with ethical behaviors. So,
[42:45] this is a very strong purpose statement
[42:47] as you can see. And one of the things I
[42:50] can say and you should be very proud of
[42:52] is there are very few ethics complaints
[42:54] in the city. Um, and there are um it is
[42:59] very unusual to see violations of the
[43:03] ethics code, but the council members do
[43:06] also ask questions. Whether you're
[43:09] asking of the clerk or you're uh seeking
[43:11] advisory opinions of the city attorney,
[43:14] you really do use those components of
[43:16] your code and it's very healthy um in
[43:19] its um in its administration. So the
[43:24] other thing to note is that OELA's code
[43:26] of ethics is not um blind to the fact
[43:29] that you're in a small town and if you
[43:32] prohibit all interests or actions on
[43:36] items that you may have any interests
[43:38] that you'll make no decisions at all. So
[43:41] that is incorporated into the language
[43:43] of the code and it recognizes that
[43:48] um that you need to protect the public
[43:50] from decisions that involve substantial
[43:52] [music] finan financial interests but
[43:54] make sure that um the council members
[43:57] are engaged in making decisions. um so
[44:00] that and that
[44:03] people who want to serve as elected
[44:05] officials retain the rights to personal
[44:07] and financial interests and that there's
[44:09] an outlet there for them. So in 2.0130C
[44:15] is where you really get language that
[44:17] strikes that balance.
[44:21] So one of the most important things to
[44:23] understand with the code of ethics and
[44:24] it can get a little confusing is who is
[44:26] covered. So, a council when they adopted
[44:29] this uh with a code of ethics years ago,
[44:32] um although not that many years ago,
[44:34] they um they included the city clerk and
[44:38] the city attorney as city officials. It
[44:40] also includes the elected officials of
[44:43] the city and appointees to commissions.
[44:47] So, that's an important So, it does not
[44:49] include and that's what it's important
[44:50] to note. It does not include city
[44:52] employees. Now, city employees are
[44:55] subject to a lot of ethics provisions.
[44:57] We'll talk a little bit about that. And
[44:59] they and there there are some of these
[45:02] ethics provisions from title two that
[45:04] are incorporated into title three and
[45:06] apply to city employees, but the
[45:08] consequences of a violation are
[45:10] different. All right? So they they may
[45:12] be subject to discipline action for
[45:14] example whereas
[45:17] they the ethics complaint process is
[45:19] reserved for these elected and uh
[45:21] appointed officials and the city
[45:23] attorney and the city clerk.
[45:29] » I'm not going to spend too much time on
[45:31] the conflict of interest piece because I
[45:33] feel like that's the piece we work with
[45:36] regularly. council is and council
[45:38] members are repeatedly declaring a
[45:40] conflict of interest when they I'm
[45:41] sorry, declaring a financial interest
[45:43] when they have one and disclosing it and
[45:46] then the mayor determines if that
[45:49] interest is substantial or is not
[45:51] substantial. If the council disagrees
[45:54] with the mayor's decision, the council
[45:56] can make a motion um and find otherwise.
[45:59] Uh similarly if the mayor is the one who
[46:02] has a interest um that interest is
[46:06] decided upon by the council and so that
[46:09] basic uh construct I believe all of you
[46:12] are familiar with that if anyone feels
[46:13] like they want to go through that in
[46:14] more detail raise your hand okay moving
[46:18] on so substantial financial interest
[46:21] I've included the provision regarding
[46:23] what that is in this uh training I don't
[46:26] think we need to go through it I feel
[46:28] like you're very familiar with it. Um I
[46:31] think one of the things to note is that
[46:35] the substantial financial interest test
[46:37] adopted by Wasilla
[46:40] mirrors the test adopted by the courts.
[46:43] And so while some municipalities will
[46:46] just have a number, Wasilla has a has
[46:49] factors that are weighed in determining
[46:51] whether or not an interest is
[46:52] substantial. Those factors are whether
[46:55] the financial interest is a substantial
[46:57] part of the consideration, whether the
[47:00] interest will be significantly impacted
[47:01] or changed by the outcome of the
[47:04] official action, whether the interest is
[47:06] immediate and known or attenuated and
[47:09] dependent on factors beyond the official
[47:11] action, and whether a reasonable person
[47:14] would consider the financial interest
[47:16] significant and would expect a person to
[47:19] take actions and make decisions to
[47:20] protect that financial interest. We get
[47:23] these from case law. We get these from
[47:25] the court. This is what they think a
[47:27] financial interest, a substantial
[47:29] financial interest looks like. But one
[47:31] of the things that Wasa did do to ensure
[47:34] that we can answer these questions a
[47:36] little easier or have uh it they adopted
[47:39] a presumption of substantial financial
[47:43] interest for uh interest that with a gr
[47:47] greater than $1,000.
[47:49] So, what I expect to see as time goes on
[47:52] is council considering that number
[47:54] because clearly $1,000 today is not
[47:58] $1,000 five years from now and $1,000 in
[48:01] 2022 is not even $1,000 today. You know,
[48:04] so that's one of the things as council
[48:06] members, as you're navigating out there,
[48:09] remember that the purpose of your ethics
[48:11] code is to find balance between
[48:15] your interests and your involvement in
[48:17] your community and your role as a
[48:19] council member or or the role of a
[48:21] commissioner. Um, and so that number may
[48:24] need to change [music] at times. You
[48:26] shouldn't be afraid to talk with the
[48:28] clerk about bringing, you know,
[48:30] sponsorship or bringing something
[48:31] forward, if that makes sense.
[48:34] Does anybody have any questions so far?
[48:36] I'm moving quickly because I want to
[48:38] cover all of the things and there's
[48:39] quite a few prohibited acts. So, but um
[48:43] one of the things we incorporated is
[48:45] something that also exists in what we
[48:47] call common law, right? Under case law,
[48:50] and that's called the rule of necessity.
[48:52] This is used a lot by the courts
[48:54] regardless of whether or not it's in
[48:56] your code, but not a lot of communities
[48:58] have expressly adopted it. I think one
[49:01] of the things that uh the good things
[49:04] about putting it in your code is you
[49:06] know you're going to use it right if you
[49:08] end up using it instead of relying on it
[49:10] because you didn't have anything to use
[49:12] and so just issued a decision or even
[49:15] worse just become paralyzed and unable
[49:18] to make a decision. So the rule of
[49:19] necessity is designed to allow a uh body
[49:24] to make a decision when they are not
[49:27] going to get to a majority vote with
[49:32] uninterested
[49:34] members. So it's one of those things you
[49:36] have a very important decision. It has
[49:38] to be issued but maybe three of your
[49:40] council members have a conflict on that
[49:43] thing. And the alternative is that you
[49:45] just don't get to make a decision on
[49:47] that issue, you know. So that is that is
[49:50] not an outcome that
[49:54] bodess well for a city if it's an
[49:55] important decision that you need to
[49:57] make. So what this does is it creates a
[49:59] rule of necessity and there's three
[50:01] provisions. Um so the provisions are it
[50:05] would apply but only where by reason of
[50:08] being excused for conflicts of interest
[50:10] the number of council members is reduced
[50:12] to [music] less than the minimum number
[50:14] required to approve the official action.
[50:16] No other body of the city has
[50:18] jurisdiction and authority to take the
[50:20] official action. The and the official
[50:23] official action cannot be set aside to a
[50:25] later date within a reasonable time when
[50:27] council could obtain the minimum number
[50:29] of members to take action who are not
[50:31] excused. Basically meaning that conflict
[50:34] is just going to be there you know for a
[50:37] long period of time and you just cannot
[50:39] escape it. So that is the rule of
[50:41] necessity and it's good for the public
[50:42] to know about that too because when it
[50:44] comes up you know it's unusual.
[50:47] >> I don't believe the rule of necessity
[50:49] » I don't believe the rule of necessity
[50:49] has been used since this was adopted. So
[50:53] it's not it's very very rare.
[50:56] >> Thank you. So curiosity kind of thing.
[50:58] » Thank you. So curiosity kind of thing.
[50:58] Basically what what ends up happening is
[51:00] the council's going to vote and it's
[51:02] just kind of hey everybody's got a
[51:03] conflict of interest here or most of the
[51:05] council has a conflict of interest.
[51:06] We're going to vote on this matter. Does
[51:09] anybody can do I ask this? Is a member
[51:13] of the public able to step in and say
[51:15] hey you know I feel like the vote should
[51:18] have gone a different way. I mean, what
[51:20] would be the repercussions or actions
[51:22] that somebody could take if something
[51:24] like this were to happen and basically
[51:26] said and they somebody felt that the
[51:28] council made a decision completely
[51:31] biased because of the conflict of
[51:32] interest. I mean, is that in place
[51:35] somewhere? Well, I mean, I think where
[51:37] what it is is you would look to case law
[51:38] and say the rule of necessity is a rule
[51:42] of law that is respected and applicable
[51:46] and has been found to comply with the
[51:50] what is in essence a sub a substantive
[51:53] due process consideration. Are you
[51:55] making an arbitrary decision? you know,
[51:57] and if you're making a quasi judicial
[51:59] decision, which council rarely if ever
[52:02] does, but in theory could, um, there's a
[52:05] provision in your code of ethics that
[52:07] allows that gives a hearing officer
[52:11] jurisdiction to hear a uh to to hear a
[52:17] matter if the rule of necessity would
[52:20] otherwise be triggered. So you protect
[52:22] in that sense and if it's going to be
[52:24] quasi judicial
[52:26] it would go to a hearing officer because
[52:29] under the rule of necessity it says if
[52:31] anybody else has jurisdiction to hear it
[52:33] right that they they're going to hear
[52:35] it. You can only decide it if there's no
[52:38] if no other body or person has
[52:40] jurisdiction to hear it. So you
[52:42] protected those quasi judicial pieces,
[52:45] but in the realm of legislation,
[52:48] this code would protect you legally if
[52:51] it's followed. And that's why um that
[52:55] doesn't mean, you know, so it could go
[52:57] to court. And again, you never know
[52:58] what's going to happen in court, but you
[53:00] would have local law and state case law
[53:05] that supported the cities what the city
[53:08] did, which is pretty um pretty strong
[53:11] support
[53:12] >> to follow up. Um and it's
[53:13] » to follow up. Um and it's
[53:13] [clears throat] I guess I wasn't asking
[53:14] the question of whether they had the
[53:16] right to make the vote. Obviously, they
[53:18] do. It's more so a resident said, "Hey,
[53:20] I don't think that was the way you
[53:22] should have voted that I believe you
[53:23] were biased and that you voted in favor
[53:26] of your bias." Uh does somebody have a
[53:29] repercussion or or would you basically
[53:31] like what you said it just needs to end
[53:32] up in court at that point or hope that
[53:34] the council goes obviously we're biased
[53:36] here so we're going to say no or yes
[53:38] whatever the factor might be to to make
[53:40] the decision so that
[53:42] >> they can kind of say hey we even though
[53:44] » they can kind of say hey we even though
[53:44] we're biased we're going to not go do
[53:46] this thing or do this thing depending on
[53:48] how what the outcome was.
[53:49] >> Yeah. I mean I think what council will
[53:51] » Yeah. I mean I think what council will
[53:51] have to do is try not to be arbitrary.
[53:53] You know, that's that's the only and
[53:55] that's what you can say to the public is
[53:57] we had to use the rule of necessity. We
[54:00] worked really hard to issue findings
[54:02] like to share our reasons to make sure
[54:04] we had reasons and to make sure we
[54:06] didn't make an arbitrary decision.
[54:09] We can't guarantee that our biases sort
[54:11] of didn't come into, you know, our
[54:14] votes, but we can we can guarantee that
[54:17] we do not make an arbitrary decision,
[54:19] which ultimately is what the courts are
[54:21] looking at. when you make a legislative
[54:23] decision that is the question. I mean
[54:26] obviously there's if you make a decision
[54:28] that violates some other federal or
[54:30] state law or you know is discriminatory
[54:32] or violates the constitution but other
[54:35] than that assuming it doesn't do those
[54:36] things the question is have you made a
[54:40] decision that is uh that is not
[54:42] unreasonable
[54:44] that is intentional so to make it even
[54:47] sort of less it's not
[54:49] that has to be unreasonable has to be
[54:51] not unreasonable or arbitrary.
[54:54] So that's Thank you.
[54:58] >> And
[54:59] » And
[54:59] >> Madam Deputy Mayor Tim Johnson,
[55:01] » Madam Deputy Mayor Tim Johnson,
[55:01] >> Councilman Johnson.
[55:05] » Councilman Johnson.
[55:05] >> Uh, the way I'm seeing this is the rule
[55:08] » Uh, the way I'm seeing this is the rule
[55:08] of necessity then will actually protect
[55:11] the councilmen that would have the
[55:14] conflict of interest, but it really
[55:17] wouldn't take the council as a whole off
[55:20] the hook. Is that correct?
[55:23] >> Yeah. I mean, I think you still have to
[55:25] » Yeah. I mean, I think you still have to
[55:25] act in a way that's not unreasonable and
[55:29] is not arbitrary, you know. So, council
[55:31] will still need to do that. The rule of
[55:33] necessity says, look, we either can make
[55:36] a decision and govern or we can do
[55:40] nothing and not be able to govern a
[55:43] particular area of um you know, of our
[55:47] that's within our authority that we need
[55:49] to be doing. So, it's it's pro it's it's
[55:53] designed to protect the keep the wheels
[55:56] turning on a city, you know, or a
[55:59] burrow, any municipality really. Does
[56:02] that answer your question question,
[56:04] Council Member Johnson? So, I don't know
[56:05] if they're really on the hook, but
[56:06] you're right that they're on the hook to
[56:09] make decisions in the same way that they
[56:11] normally
[56:13] are required
[56:14] to do.
[56:15] >> Yes, that would be the way I'd
[56:17] » Yes, that would be the way I'd
[56:17] understand it. It would provide a path
[56:19] forward.
[56:21] >> Yes, exactly.
[56:23] » Yes, exactly.
[56:23] And again, hasn't come up. So, it's just
[56:26] it's an interesting
[56:28] uh rule. It's important that it's there,
[56:30] but so far we haven't had to to use it.
[56:34] Thank goodness.
[56:36] So, um and council member Johnson, I am
[56:40] not sure. We're on slide seven and I
[56:43] have not been cute. I haven't been
[56:44] saying that. I'm sorry.
[56:47] That's helpful.
[56:50] Okay.
[56:52] And we're moving on to slide eight.
[56:56] And so here what we're really looking
[56:58] at. So there's the conflict of interest.
[57:00] That's where we spend most of our time
[57:02] with code of ethics, but lots of
[57:03] communities have conflicts of interest
[57:05] provisions. So where where is it that we
[57:09] really start to see the meat of your
[57:12] code? And that is in the prohibited acts
[57:14] that are listed in 2.01.
[57:16] uh 060 and that is where we look at all
[57:20] we have like sort of a laundry list of
[57:22] things that city officials are
[57:25] prohibited from doing. So one the city
[57:29] officials are prohibited from making
[57:30] false statements.
[57:32] So this is important to note. So they
[57:34] cannot make false statements in order to
[57:37] influence official action. So that means
[57:39] we're not out there policing the
[57:42] statements of city officials in all
[57:44] areas, right? We uh we do however um the
[57:49] city does have the ability to um to look
[57:54] at false statements that are made to
[57:56] influence official action. And remember,
[57:58] we'll talk about this a little bit
[57:59] later, but we have an e the ethics
[58:01] complaint process means that the public
[58:03] also can hold city officials accountable
[58:06] for what are perceived or alleged false
[58:09] statements. Uh inappropriate use of
[58:12] title or authority. So that is also
[58:14] prohibited. No city official shall use
[58:17] the implied authority of their office or
[58:19] position for the purpose of unduly
[58:21] influencing the decisions of others or
[58:24] promoting more personal interests within
[58:26] the community unless duly appointed by
[58:28] council to represent the interests of
[58:30] the full council. Council members shall
[58:32] refrain from implying the representation
[58:34] of the whole uh by the use of their
[58:36] title. So, this is one of those things.
[58:39] It it I highly recommend
[58:42] just calling the clerk as your first
[58:45] step in the process when sometimes
[58:48] you're going to be at an event and
[58:50] you're not really sure what hat you have
[58:52] on and you're not really sure if you're
[58:54] there in an official capacity. There it
[58:57] can get the lines can get blurred. um
[59:00] especially when um you know there may be
[59:04] sort of a lobbying effort in Juno or a
[59:08] attending a chamber meeting and you're
[59:10] wearing many hats, you know. So it's
[59:12] just it's a good uh this is a good one
[59:15] to keep your eye on and make sure you
[59:17] watch and sometimes just get comfortable
[59:19] saying things like I'm here in my
[59:21] private capacity or this is my opinion
[59:23] in my personal capacity. Um, and then
[59:27] for council to when you want someone to
[59:30] speak for council, making sure you give
[59:33] them the protection uh to do that by
[59:36] passing a resolution or something um
[59:38] that puts them in that position. So
[59:41] representing private interests um is
[59:44] also prohibited. So no city official
[59:47] shall for compensation and that is an
[59:49] important distinction represent or
[59:51] assist those representing private
[59:53] business or personal interest before
[59:55] council administration or any city board
[59:58] um any city board commission or agency.
[1:00:04] Nothing in this section, however,
[1:00:06] prevents an official from making verbal
[1:00:08] or written inquiries on behalf of
[1:00:10] constituents or the general public to
[1:00:13] elements of city government or from
[1:00:15] requesting explanations or additional
[1:00:17] information on behalf of their
[1:00:18] constituents. No official may solicit or
[1:00:21] accept a benefit or anything of value
[1:00:23] from any [music] person for having
[1:00:24] performed this service. This is just
[1:00:27] trying to prevent that dance between a
[1:00:31] council member as a persuasive
[1:00:36] vote on council and voice on council and
[1:00:39] a consultant in the community where
[1:00:42] people are compensating you because of
[1:00:44] the power of your voice with the very
[1:00:46] body you're trying to influence. Right?
[1:00:47] So that is what these uh prohibitions
[1:00:50] against representing private interests
[1:00:52] are designed to address. A lot of
[1:00:54] communities have both this one and the
[1:00:56] inappropriate use or title. Uh, a lot of
[1:00:59] communities have both of those. They'll
[1:01:00] have them as separate or distinct
[1:01:02] provisions, though not necessarily
[1:01:04] incorporated into a code of ethics.
[1:01:09] So, another pro prohibition is one
[1:01:11] against disseminating confidential
[1:01:13] information.
[1:01:14] Most uh most communities prohibit this
[1:01:17] in some way, but a lot of them fail to
[1:01:21] codify it in a way that it can be
[1:01:23] enforced. And so this is something that
[1:01:26] was chosen to do.
[1:01:29] Uh the other is gratuitities is another
[1:01:33] prohibition. It's really important for
[1:01:35] you to read that one. That's another one
[1:01:37] with a number. So it's another one to
[1:01:38] keep in mind. The number right now is
[1:01:40] meals under $75 in value are not
[1:01:43] prohibited. I believe that that's the
[1:01:46] same thing for gifts. Nothing uh it's
[1:01:48] not prohibited if it's an occasional
[1:01:52] what they call non-puniary gift and it's
[1:01:54] less than $75 in value. Um also it's not
[1:01:59] prohibited to receive a gift presented
[1:02:01] by an employer to its employees in
[1:02:03] recognition of meritorious service or
[1:02:05] civic or public awards.
[1:02:08] um any discounts or prizes that are
[1:02:11] generally available to the public or
[1:02:13] large sections of the public. When you
[1:02:15] serve as a council member or city
[1:02:16] official, you don't lose your right to
[1:02:18] be and participate as a member of the
[1:02:21] public. So, any benefit that goes to the
[1:02:23] public, um any um prizes, any fun,
[1:02:29] you know, handout or I don't know,
[1:02:32] privilege or it's not you're never going
[1:02:34] to be asked to forfeit that because we
[1:02:37] can't because you have the same
[1:02:38] protections. [snorts]
[1:02:39] Not because we can. I'm not saying the
[1:02:41] city would take that from you if they
[1:02:42] could. I'm just saying that uh that
[1:02:45] that's one way to think of it is am I
[1:02:47] participating as a member of the public?
[1:02:49] if you come across something and you
[1:02:50] wonder can I do this as a council member
[1:02:53] you know the answer is going to be yes
[1:02:54] if it's open to the public um and now
[1:02:57] that said to the extent can you all do
[1:03:00] it together at a specific time that
[1:03:02] might be different under the open
[1:03:03] meetings act um so here are your so
[1:03:07] gratuitities you want to pay attention
[1:03:09] to that number you want to pay attention
[1:03:10] to because things are going up really
[1:03:13] fast you know and I feel like $75 should
[1:03:17] be fine to cover a meal
[1:03:19] But I think you should be watching your
[1:03:22] your checks on that just because I think
[1:03:25] it's starting to it's starting to go up.
[1:03:27] Um and you could have a nice dinner and
[1:03:30] a few drinks when you're in a position
[1:03:32] where you're you know you are um that
[1:03:35] would normally be something you don't
[1:03:37] think about. Someone offers to to um
[1:03:40] treat you and you're at $85. I can't
[1:03:44] believe I'm saying that but that
[1:03:46] possible. Um, so, uh, use of city
[1:03:50] property for personal purposes is also
[1:03:53] prohibited. So, you want to make sure
[1:03:55] you read that to the if you're in a
[1:03:57] position where you're using city
[1:03:59] property. You know, I think you can
[1:04:00] ignore it unless that unless that
[1:04:02] occurs. Um,
[1:04:06] and we've got more. Political activities
[1:04:08] are prohibited. Um, certain political
[1:04:11] activities. And this one's really
[1:04:12] important to pay attention to because
[1:04:15] this is another one you can fall into. A
[1:04:17] city official may not take an active
[1:04:19] part in a political campaign or other
[1:04:21] political activity when on duty. Now,
[1:04:24] nothing here prevents city officials
[1:04:27] from exercising a right to vote,
[1:04:29] contribute to a campaign or a candidate,
[1:04:31] or expressing officials political views
[1:04:33] when they are not on duty or engaging
[1:04:36] with the public in their capacity as a
[1:04:38] city official. But what you have to
[1:04:40] watch is if you show up somewhere and
[1:04:43] you introduce yourself as a city council
[1:04:47] member or you're attending something and
[1:04:49] you're talking about the interests of
[1:04:50] council or you're there in your capacity
[1:04:52] as a member of council and then you
[1:04:55] start sharing your political viewpoints
[1:04:56] on a candidate. Um that is something to
[1:04:59] be very wary of. uh it's very easy to
[1:05:03] either get sideways or perhaps more
[1:05:06] importantly appear to get sideways of
[1:05:08] this pro prohibition. And while ethics
[1:05:11] complaints um there they there's a
[1:05:14] process to vet them and make sure that
[1:05:16] you are not you are not
[1:05:20] sanctioned or there are no remedies
[1:05:22] given for a violation that does not
[1:05:23] occur. It is still a process and it is
[1:05:26] still unnerving to go through a process
[1:05:29] when people think there's a violation.
[1:05:30] So, for that reason, I would say really
[1:05:33] pay attention to what hat you have on
[1:05:35] and how you're communicating. And if you
[1:05:37] have any questions about that, either
[1:05:40] get an advisory opinion so you have that
[1:05:42] to sort of carry around with you or or
[1:05:45] um call the clerk and kind of talk it
[1:05:48] through if that's okay, Jamie, first and
[1:05:50] then she can help you identify what best
[1:05:53] steps, next steps. I'm gonna take a
[1:05:56] breath. Anybody have any questions? I've
[1:05:59] gone through quite a few.
[1:06:01] Okay. Is this pace okay or is this a
[1:06:04] little too quick? Not quick enough.
[1:06:07] >> Okay. All right. I'll keep going. All
[1:06:08] » Okay. All right. I'll keep going. All
[1:06:08] right. Improper influence. A city
[1:06:11] official may not contact the employer of
[1:06:13] other city officials or threaten
[1:06:15] financial harm to other city officials
[1:06:18] um in an attempt to influence their
[1:06:20] actions, votes, or positions. This is
[1:06:22] something you would not something I've
[1:06:24] seen in Wasela, but I have seen this
[1:06:27] numerous times. And so this is an
[1:06:29] important one to have in your code, but
[1:06:31] um so far maybe not for you guys. You're
[1:06:34] doing great. So impartiality in
[1:06:37] conducting city business. Um
[1:06:40] this one is very very strong for a
[1:06:44] community. Um and it was something that
[1:06:47] council wanted and it's in line with
[1:06:49] your oath. But I I just want you to be
[1:06:52] aware that the prohibition against
[1:06:55] acting impartially when conducting city
[1:06:57] business in a blanket sense is very um
[1:07:02] very strong. Now that said, almost every
[1:07:04] community has an element of that in
[1:07:06] their oath of office, but a few carry it
[1:07:08] through in their code. What it means is
[1:07:10] the way I interpret this is there are
[1:07:13] the actions you take as council members
[1:07:15] that come before you as a body. There's
[1:07:17] procurement. There's all of those
[1:07:19] things. So you declare any substant or
[1:07:22] any financial interest you have. Council
[1:07:24] decides if it's substantial and that's
[1:07:26] sort of the model for that right. Uh as
[1:07:29] far as partiality whether or not you are
[1:07:33] impartial that you need to disclose that
[1:07:37] and that is something that is determined
[1:07:40] in a quasi judicial proceeding. Here
[1:07:43] there is a presumption that you will
[1:07:46] tell you know you will disclose if you
[1:07:51] are acting impartially or in a position
[1:07:53] to act impartially which means when we
[1:07:56] look at what that what what the
[1:07:58] difference between being say having a
[1:08:00] substantial financial interest which is
[1:08:02] tangible and being partial or impartial
[1:08:05] it really comes down to what
[1:08:08] you believe right what you do you think
[1:08:11] you're partial or impartial for purposes
[1:08:14] of legislative actions. And so the only
[1:08:18] so if this comes up where you are
[1:08:22] sponsoring or introducing an ordinance
[1:08:24] or an action
[1:08:27] then we're going to look at would a
[1:08:28] reason what would a reasonable person
[1:08:30] believe you know would they believe that
[1:08:32] there's but if you were acting in your
[1:08:34] passive role as a council member and
[1:08:36] things are coming to you I think we
[1:08:38] would based on the law we would be
[1:08:41] looking at you to act lawfully and
[1:08:45] comply with the law. So, that's just
[1:08:46] sort of to give you some because that
[1:08:48] one's really hard. It's hard to
[1:08:50] navigate. Um, but when in doubt,
[1:08:52] disclose. Raise the issue if you think
[1:08:54] that you may be um impartial or if
[1:08:58] you're you're I or partial or if you're
[1:09:01] certain that you're impartial, but you
[1:09:03] want the public to know that this is
[1:09:05] your best friend or this is somebody
[1:09:07] that you know that there's some interest
[1:09:11] that exists there. Um, but that you feel
[1:09:14] like you could make a
[1:09:16] impartial decision, you know, so that's
[1:09:18] a conversation with the public. Any
[1:09:20] questions on that one?
[1:09:23] Okay. Um,
[1:09:26] all right. Employment and financial
[1:09:28] disclosures. talked a little bit about
[1:09:29] this, so I won't go into it too much um
[1:09:32] as far as um you know who the code
[1:09:37] covers, but it's also important for you
[1:09:40] to remember that council member during
[1:09:41] your term council members may not
[1:09:43] represent or advise a person in any
[1:09:45] manner pending before a city body. So
[1:09:48] that's a restriction that can be can
[1:09:50] have a cost, you know, so it's very
[1:09:52] important the council members are aware
[1:09:54] of that. Um during also during the term
[1:09:57] for which uh elected and for one year
[1:10:00] after leaving office, city council
[1:10:02] members and the mayor are not eligible
[1:10:04] for city employment unless it comes back
[1:10:06] to council and they approve it, which I
[1:10:09] don't know, Jamie, has that ever
[1:10:10] happened where we've had
[1:10:12] >> not to my knowledge.
[1:10:13] » not to my knowledge.
[1:10:13] >> Okay.
[1:10:15] » Okay.
[1:10:15] >> Um finally, don't forget to complete
[1:10:17] » Um finally, don't forget to complete
[1:10:17] your financial disclosure statements
[1:10:19] every year and that's in that lives in
[1:10:21] the code of ethics as well.
[1:10:26] So, another area that's encompassed into
[1:10:27] the code of ethics, and this has been in
[1:10:29] your code for a long time, but it was
[1:10:31] moved over to the code of ethics um when
[1:10:33] it was when the code of ethics was
[1:10:35] adopted. Um
[1:10:38] so, this deals with contracting and
[1:10:40] purchasing for the city. And it states
[1:10:44] that a city official who has a financial
[1:10:45] interest in any bid or proposal for a
[1:10:47] city contract shall disclose that
[1:10:49] interest by filing a written notice uh
[1:10:52] of that interest with the purchasing
[1:10:55] officer. And that has to be done not
[1:10:57] less than 10 business days before
[1:10:59] submission of the bid or proposal in
[1:11:01] which the official has an interest. This
[1:11:03] is a hard one to comply with because you
[1:11:06] don't necessarily know. You have to be
[1:11:09] watching and it has to be triggered. And
[1:11:11] I think this is something that I know
[1:11:12] the administration is working on to
[1:11:14] ensure that you get that trigger if they
[1:11:17] know right. So because when you look at
[1:11:21] it so it's basically it's going to be
[1:11:23] appointees and council and the city
[1:11:27] clerk and the city attorney. I mean it
[1:11:29] will impact us but uh um so basically 10
[1:11:34] days before submission of the bidder
[1:11:37] proposal in which the official has an
[1:11:40] interest. So that
[1:11:42] you may have an interest in a bid or
[1:11:44] proposal and not know when it's getting
[1:11:46] submitted. Does that make sense? So this
[1:11:48] is one that it really takes everyone's
[1:11:51] involvement to help uh ensure that
[1:11:54] there's compliance I think in some
[1:11:56] cases. In some cases, it'll be very
[1:11:58] obvious if you know if you have a family
[1:12:01] member living in your household who is
[1:12:04] submitting a bid. You're going to know
[1:12:06] they're submitting a bid, right? If
[1:12:08] they're going in and submitting, but
[1:12:09] you're not going to necessarily know
[1:12:11] that if it's um you know, if maybe one
[1:12:13] of your kids runs a business and you
[1:12:16] know, or they or they're a subcontractor
[1:12:19] and they're pulled in on the uh on the
[1:12:22] bid. So, there's a lot of circumstances
[1:12:24] here. So, just be aware that it's there.
[1:12:27] And then, um, you know, that's one that
[1:12:30] the administration can work with the
[1:12:33] council members on. The other piece of
[1:12:35] this is
[1:12:37] if if you determine that there has been
[1:12:41] a misstep, just tell the clerk as soon
[1:12:44] as possible because then we can
[1:12:46] retroactively address it. Sorry. And um,
[1:12:49] and bring that before counsel in a way
[1:12:51] that sort of ratifies it if it's not
[1:12:54] um if it's not intentional because I do
[1:12:56] again I think this one's a little
[1:12:58] difficult um but importance it's
[1:13:01] probably so let's see all right the
[1:13:03] other thing to note here
[1:13:06] um
[1:13:08] so the purchasing officer posts the
[1:13:10] written notice at the place maintained
[1:13:12] for the posting of public not uh public
[1:13:15] notices at city hall so that's just
[1:13:17] another thing to note so when you see it
[1:13:18] up there you're not surprised um no city
[1:13:22] official has a financial interest in any
[1:13:24] bid or proposal for a city contract may
[1:13:26] participate in the city's decision to
[1:13:28] award the contract. Um
[1:13:33] um that's I think we are all comfortable
[1:13:36] and know that uh no city official may
[1:13:38] solicit or receive any form of
[1:13:40] compensation from any party other than
[1:13:42] the city in connection with the awarding
[1:13:44] of a city contract.
[1:13:46] Uh that one is um you know sort of
[1:13:49] common sense but I think one of the
[1:13:51] other things here is this provision
[1:13:53] remains it we it hasn't been changed to
[1:13:56] add more restrictive
[1:13:59] um consequences. This came from your
[1:14:01] code and it is worth noting that it says
[1:14:06] uh anyone who violates this is guilty of
[1:14:08] a a misconduct in office and a violation
[1:14:10] of the oath of office. A contract
[1:14:12] entered into in violation of the section
[1:14:14] is voidable by council.
[1:14:16] So, um, you know, it's pretty
[1:14:20] the it's very clear that the Wasilla
[1:14:23] City Council wants arms length
[1:14:25] transactions, especially when it comes
[1:14:27] to procurement and has adopted codes to
[1:14:30] make that happen. And um, and again, I
[1:14:33] think that
[1:14:35] council does a great job of complying
[1:14:37] with these things. So, this is training,
[1:14:39] not warning, you know. [laughter]
[1:14:41] Uh, does anybody have any questions
[1:14:45] so far? No. Okay, moving on. Uh, just a
[1:14:49] reminder, this does not apply to city
[1:14:51] employees. I do worry because we start
[1:14:53] talking about city officials. City
[1:14:55] officials often do encompass employees
[1:14:57] and other arenas. So, a lot of times
[1:15:00] we'll try to impute these provisions and
[1:15:04] private acts on employees. So we just
[1:15:06] always want to make keep that separation
[1:15:08] in mind. That says uh that said the um
[1:15:13] title 3 does encompass a lot of these uh
[1:15:17] into the personnel policies the list of
[1:15:20] prohibited acts for example an employee
[1:15:22] who has a financial interest as defined
[1:15:24] in the ethics code whether it's direct
[1:15:26] or indirect in the sale of any lands
[1:15:29] materials supplies or services um is um
[1:15:34] does have a requirement to tell the
[1:15:36] mayor and disclose that interest to the
[1:15:38] mayor And generally what needs to happen
[1:15:40] is that an employee is um screened off
[1:15:44] or not permitted to make any official
[1:15:47] take any official action on those on
[1:15:49] that matter. So it's a very similar
[1:15:51] process. It's just done under an
[1:15:52] employment process. Um all right. So how
[1:15:55] do you stay out of trouble?
[1:15:57] Right? Because this is a lot of rules.
[1:15:59] Right? Uh you talk to your city clerk.
[1:16:02] Uh as you all know I don't have to tell
[1:16:04] you this. was an incredibly competent,
[1:16:08] knowledgeable, experienced city clerk
[1:16:10] and deputy city clerk as well. So, you
[1:16:13] have this this is a great resource and
[1:16:16] just have the talk. Um, one of the
[1:16:19] things I get that really scares me if
[1:16:21] people are afraid of these laws, that is
[1:16:24] when they are most likely to run a foul
[1:16:27] of them and those ethics complaints
[1:16:30] start start coming in. If we're um
[1:16:34] willing to make mistakes and disclose
[1:16:37] them then we can navigate these things
[1:16:39] usually. Um
[1:16:41] it's a lot easier. Um also attend Oh no
[1:16:45] I don't want to leave there. Okay.
[1:16:46] Attend regularly scheduled ethics
[1:16:48] trainings and making sure we have them
[1:16:50] even if we do them this way and we just
[1:16:51] kind of get it all out there and maybe
[1:16:54] we you know in a couple months we have
[1:16:56] another one so it's just you know stays
[1:16:59] rough on our minds. Um, and then, um,
[1:17:02] it's important to know, and I know the
[1:17:04] council members are aware of this, but,
[1:17:07] uh, use the advisory opinion component
[1:17:09] because you can ask and you'll get an
[1:17:12] opinion and we do try to turn them
[1:17:13] around fairly quickly and that will it's
[1:17:18] binding, you know, on the city and they
[1:17:20] and it's and it protects the council
[1:17:22] members from ethics complaints. Um, so
[1:17:25] that's a really powerful tool.
[1:17:29] And then I get to just Disclose,
[1:17:31] disclose, disclose if there's a problem.
[1:17:33] And that is
[1:17:35] sort of your
[1:17:38] ethics training on the code of ethics.
[1:17:40] Are there any questions?
[1:17:44] Any concerns?
[1:17:49] » All right. Thank you, Holly.
[1:17:52] >> We are now at communications. Madame
[1:17:54] » We are now at communications. Madame
[1:17:54] Clerk, please read the items by title.
[1:17:57] >> Thank you. Thank you, Madam Deputy
[1:17:59] » Thank you. Thank you, Madam Deputy
[1:17:59] Mayor. Item number 2518, the Lake
[1:18:01] Lucille Park [clears throat] playground
[1:18:03] removal. I am number 2519, monthly
[1:18:05] financial reports for the period ending
[1:18:08] July 31st, 2025. I am number 2520,
[1:18:12] monthly financial reports for the period
[1:18:14] ending August 31st, 2025. I am number
[1:18:17] 2521, which is the city of Wasilla's
[1:18:20] 2026 holiday schedule. And lastly, item
[1:18:23] number 2522, the McGrath job
[1:18:25] classification study report with two
[1:18:27] sets of commission meeting minutes
[1:18:29] planning commission September 9 and
[1:18:31] October 14, 2025.
[1:18:36] We are now at audience comments, which
[1:18:38] is a time for members of the public to
[1:18:40] share their views with the council. This
[1:18:42] is not a question and answer period or a
[1:18:44] time for dialogue. Speakers may be
[1:18:46] referred to administrations or issues
[1:18:48] raised may be taken under advisement for
[1:18:50] council or administration.
[1:18:57] No takers. We are now at mayor clerk
[1:19:01] attorney and council comments. Madame
[1:19:03] clerk. Thank you. I do council if we
[1:19:05] could pick a couple dates. I had sent
[1:19:08] out an email. Um, our finance department
[1:19:11] through the mayor is looking for two
[1:19:13] 4-hour sessions in January to kick off
[1:19:16] our budget season. I thought maybe
[1:19:19] weekdays from 10 to 2, but I don't know.
[1:19:21] I just want council. I don't know what
[1:19:23] your schedules are. Um, so I'll turn it
[1:19:27] over to whoever. Councilman Graham.
[1:19:30] >> Thank you. Uh
[1:19:33] » Thank you. Uh
[1:19:33] I don't think the 4hour sessions
[1:19:37] uh give council adequate time to
[1:19:40] prepare. The administration has a habit
[1:19:42] of giving us a ton of information at the
[1:19:45] last minute which is essentially forcing
[1:19:48] us to make decisions on things where we
[1:19:50] haven't had adequate time uh to study
[1:19:52] and prepare. So I would go back I would
[1:19:55] recommend that we go back to the mayor
[1:19:57] and say break this up into two-hour
[1:19:58] sessions. Make sure that you provide us
[1:20:01] uh information, you know, a minimum, I
[1:20:05] mean, complete information, none of this
[1:20:06] last minute laid on the table kind of
[1:20:08] stuff. Give us complete information for
[1:20:10] the meeting so we have time to study and
[1:20:12] be able to ask reasonable questions and
[1:20:15] make informed decisions regarding the
[1:20:18] budget of the city. So, I uh I don't
[1:20:22] agree with the idea of 4-hour meetings
[1:20:24] and therefore I don't suggest any dates
[1:20:26] for those.
[1:20:29] Councilman Craftton.
[1:20:30] >> Thank you. Uh
[1:20:32] » Thank you. Uh
[1:20:32] I'm kind of in line with m what Mr.
[1:20:34] Graham was saying. Uh my concern is just
[1:20:36] four hours is a long time in the middle
[1:20:38] of the day. Uh I I understand that these
[1:20:41] meetings are not generally attended by
[1:20:44] the uh by the public, but I still think
[1:20:47] the opportunity for them to attend is
[1:20:48] better done in the evening time. That's
[1:20:51] when we usually do the meetings. And uh
[1:20:53] I mean we could do a Saturday, but we've
[1:20:55] done a 5 hour Saturday meeting and it's
[1:20:57] I mean that's just grueling to do. It's
[1:20:59] too long of a day. Uh my thought would
[1:21:02] be uh I liked the 3 hours. Uh I think 3
[1:21:05] hours was long enough that we could get
[1:21:07] through enough uh information but not so
[1:21:10] long that uh it it was burdensome on us.
[1:21:14] I think about about that 2 and 1 half
[1:21:15] hour three hour mark we're all tired
[1:21:17] anyways. So I I mean I would think if we
[1:21:19] did two three hours and then if we
[1:21:21] needed the additional two hours on a
[1:21:22] third day we could because the mayor
[1:21:24] asked for eight hours. Uh that would be
[1:21:27] something I'd a little bit be a be a
[1:21:29] little bit more okay with um in that
[1:21:31] sense. But I do like what Mr. Graham
[1:21:32] said about making sure we're getting
[1:21:34] that information early enough because
[1:21:36] again uh it's a lot to digest and uh
[1:21:39] usually those are the types of things
[1:21:40] I'm reading two if not three times
[1:21:42] before meeting. So making sure we're
[1:21:44] getting it ahead of time and not four
[1:21:46] o'clock before meeting would be great
[1:21:49] >> through the chair to the through the
[1:21:50] » through the chair to the through the
[1:21:50] chair to the council. Then would the
[1:21:53] group be immunable to three three-hour
[1:21:56] evening meetings maybe on Mondays and
[1:21:58] then we'll use our same packet deadline?
[1:22:00] We'll ensure that you have your packets
[1:22:02] 5 days ahead of time which is our
[1:22:04] standard.
[1:22:05] >> I I would think that's a good idea.
[1:22:07] » I I would think that's a good idea.
[1:22:07] Thank you.
[1:22:11] » Okay. Are there any dates that don't
[1:22:12] work for anybody? They're completely off
[1:22:16] the table.
[1:22:17] >> I would prefer not Thursday nights.
[1:22:19] » I would prefer not Thursday nights.
[1:22:20] >> Okay.
[1:22:22] » Okay.
[1:22:22] >> I like the idea of Mondays, even though
[1:22:24] » I like the idea of Mondays, even though
[1:22:24] we would be scheduling Monday after
[1:22:26] Monday after Monday, but I mean, we're
[1:22:28] kind of used to being here on Mondays
[1:22:29] and the folks that attend the meetings
[1:22:32] are used to being here on Mondays. I
[1:22:34] think it fits into everybody's schedule
[1:22:36] reasonably well.
[1:22:38] So through the through the chair. So
[1:22:40] that le So we have two Monday council
[1:22:42] meetings in January, the 12th and the
[1:22:44] 26th. I'm not sure through the
[1:22:47] administration we could make a January
[1:22:49] 5th meeting. So that actually only
[1:22:52] leaves us one meeting in January on the
[1:22:54] 19th.
[1:22:58] » I I would almost prefer these to be
[1:23:00] backtoback. And I know that sometimes is
[1:23:02] a lot, but again, it's sometimes this
[1:23:05] information is easily digestible
[1:23:08] uh when they're back to back like that,
[1:23:11] but also also at the same time it goes
[1:23:13] back to what happens at one meeting. You
[1:23:15] got to a day is not always enough to
[1:23:17] think about it. So it' almost be good to
[1:23:18] have two meetings back to back and then
[1:23:20] the third final one on a different day.
[1:23:23] Would the how does the 19th and the
[1:23:26] 20th? So that's um Monday and Tuesday
[1:23:29] and then maybe the 28th Wednesday the
[1:23:32] 28th.
[1:23:38] » I would prefer not to do backtoback just
[1:23:40] because of the homework time that's
[1:23:42] involved there. I have no objections to
[1:23:44] two meetings in a week, but spread them
[1:23:46] out. And since it is, you know, uh
[1:23:50] setting the budget is the primary
[1:23:52] responsible responsibility that the
[1:23:54] council has during the year, I wouldn't
[1:23:56] object to even doing a Friday meeting or
[1:23:58] a Saturday meeting to uh you know to
[1:24:01] make that work. But I think when you put
[1:24:04] two meetings back to back and you don't
[1:24:06] have that time in between to study and
[1:24:08] reflect on what happened on Monday
[1:24:10] before you're making decisions on
[1:24:12] Tuesday, I I I don't know. I I just
[1:24:15] don't think it sets us up for the most
[1:24:18] effective decision making.
[1:24:19] >> What What if we did a Monday, Wednesday,
[1:24:21] » What What if we did a Monday, Wednesday,
[1:24:21] Friday then?
[1:24:24] >> Or we How about if we did the 19th,
[1:24:26] » Or we How about if we did the 19th,
[1:24:26] which is a Monday, Wednesday the 21st,
[1:24:29] and Wednesday the 28th?
[1:24:35] No objection.
[1:24:36] >> I think that's okay.
[1:24:38] » I think that's okay.
[1:24:38] >> Mr. Johnson, does that work for you?
[1:24:43] » Okay, I believe that's going to work.
[1:24:45] I'm going to work with the
[1:24:46] administration to make that happen and
[1:24:48] we will for sure have that packet to you
[1:24:49] 5 days ahead of time, which is our
[1:24:51] standard rule.
[1:24:52] >> Real quick here, sorry you're looking at
[1:24:53] » Real quick here, sorry you're looking at
[1:24:53] the calendar. Monday the 19th is Martin
[1:24:55] Luther King Day. Does that affect us at
[1:24:57] all?
[1:24:57] >> Does not. Okay. It's not a city
[1:24:59] » Does not. Okay. It's not a city
[1:24:59] recognized holiday, but thank you for
[1:25:00] that. And then um so okay, so we're
[1:25:04] going to go with the 19th, the 21st, and
[1:25:05] the 28th. We'll start there. Um your
[1:25:08] travel packets to AML were passed out.
[1:25:11] Join us this Friday. Employee holiday
[1:25:13] lunchon 11:30 to 2. We'd love to see you
[1:25:16] there. And then next regular meeting
[1:25:18] after tonight is December 15th. And
[1:25:20] that's all I have. Happy Thanksgiving to
[1:25:22] everybody.
[1:25:25] >> Thank you, Madana Attorney.
[1:25:28] » Thank you, Madana Attorney.
[1:25:28] No comment.
[1:25:30] >> Council member Graham.
[1:25:33] » Council member Graham.
[1:25:33] >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Mayor. First,
[1:25:35] » Thank you, Madam Deputy Mayor. First,
[1:25:35] thanks everybody for being here. I know
[1:25:36] some of you are regulars and some of you
[1:25:38] are not, but it's always great to have
[1:25:39] people here and and to get input, even
[1:25:41] if that input just includes scowls from
[1:25:44] the from the gallery. So, that's it's
[1:25:46] always good to get that. uh said a
[1:25:49] couple things
[1:25:51] uh
[1:25:55] to talk about. You know, number one, I
[1:25:57] just have a question. The city was a
[1:25:59] holiday schedule. I mean, the our
[1:26:02] contracts with the union say that we'll
[1:26:04] observe these holidays, but does it say
[1:26:07] on what dates we will do that? uh you
[1:26:11] know because you know some of the dates
[1:26:13] on the holiday schedule you know the
[1:26:14] holidays on a Saturday so we're going to
[1:26:16] observe it on a Monday or or so on does
[1:26:19] do our contracts
[1:26:21] specify that if the if the published
[1:26:25] holiday you know falls on a certain date
[1:26:27] that it would happen on a Monday or
[1:26:29] happen on a Friday or or the reason I'm
[1:26:32] asking is purely informational because
[1:26:34] for future contracts you know I mean if
[1:26:36] July the 4th is on a Saturday uh Why not
[1:26:39] give the employees a floating holiday to
[1:26:42] cover the July 4th because they're not
[1:26:44] going to be here on the holiday day
[1:26:45] anyway? I mean, it's just an added
[1:26:48] flexibility for employees. Do you do we
[1:26:50] know the answer of whether that's
[1:26:53] >> something like that might be permissible
[1:26:55] » something like that might be permissible
[1:26:56] through negotiation or
[1:26:58] >> through the chair to council member
[1:26:59] » through the chair to council member
[1:26:59] Graham? I don't I mean I think
[1:27:00] anything's open for negotiation. It's my
[1:27:02] understanding is that the union
[1:27:05] contracts in terms of our standard
[1:27:07] holidays follow the code. So if the
[1:27:09] holiday is on a Saturday, we have we're
[1:27:11] closed on Friday. If it's on sun if it's
[1:27:13] on a Sunday, we're closed on Monday.
[1:27:16] >> Okay. So you believe that is the code?
[1:27:18] » Okay. So you believe that is the code?
[1:27:18] >> I understand.
[1:27:19] » I understand.
[1:27:19] >> Okay. Thank you. That's very
[1:27:20] » Okay. Thank you. That's very
[1:27:20] informative.
[1:27:21] >> I guess if that is untrue, we I'll send
[1:27:23] » I guess if that is untrue, we I'll send
[1:27:23] an email.
[1:27:23] >> Oh, no. I'm I'm I'm trying to find out
[1:27:25] » Oh, no. I'm I'm I'm trying to find out
[1:27:25] here. No one knows the code like the
[1:27:27] clerk. That's for sure. So, uh, the
[1:27:30] other thing I I need to come back to is
[1:27:34] IM218,
[1:27:36] uh, which is Lake Lucille Park
[1:27:39] playground removal.
[1:27:41] You read through this IM,
[1:27:43] uh, and if you look at the whole thing,
[1:27:45] you can see that an inspection was
[1:27:48] completed on or prior to the 1st of
[1:27:51] September. Okay. Uh the uh removal of
[1:27:56] the equipment from the park happened on
[1:27:58] October 22nd and here we are a month
[1:28:01] later informing the city council that
[1:28:04] city assets have been uh destroyed or
[1:28:07] disposed of. Uh I find that completely
[1:28:11] unacceptable.
[1:28:12] Completely unacceptable. If the if the
[1:28:15] inspection comes forward and says, "Hey,
[1:28:17] we got a problem here." uh you know, and
[1:28:20] we're going to have to remove or destroy
[1:28:22] some city equipment, then come to the
[1:28:24] council and say, "Hey, we need to do
[1:28:25] this." Don't send us an IM a couple
[1:28:27] months later saying, "Oh, by the way, uh
[1:28:30] we decided to, you know, destroy a
[1:28:32] parking lot that that we built or in
[1:28:34] this case, uh, you know, take out some
[1:28:37] playground equipment that appears to
[1:28:40] have been, you know, not have been
[1:28:43] inspected very well over time. So, I'm
[1:28:45] assuming that we've fixed the problem of
[1:28:47] in, you know, inspection and we're
[1:28:48] talking about a parks plan and things
[1:28:50] like that. But, you know, city council
[1:28:52] needs to be advised when city property
[1:28:55] is going to be intentionally disposed of
[1:28:57] or destroyed. Uh there's no uh there's
[1:29:00] no fault in saying, "Hey, we got a
[1:29:02] problem here. We need to fix it." Uh and
[1:29:04] that temporary fix that we're proposing
[1:29:06] is to remove it. But to do it without
[1:29:09] advising the city council, which
[1:29:11] essentially means you haven't advised
[1:29:12] the public, I I think is completely
[1:29:14] inappropriate. And I've been by the uh
[1:29:17] Lake Lucille uh park where the
[1:29:20] playground was removed. There's no sign
[1:29:22] there that says, "Hey, we removed this
[1:29:23] stuff because it was unsafe." There's
[1:29:25] still signs there that say, "Hey, you
[1:29:27] know, playing here is you do at your own
[1:29:29] risk and there may be hazards and things
[1:29:30] like that, but there's no equipment to
[1:29:32] play on." So I I I just am very
[1:29:36] uncomfortable with the way that this uh
[1:29:38] uh happened and I hope in the future
[1:29:40] that that we will uh make sure that the
[1:29:44] city council is advised when we're going
[1:29:46] to uh you know either uh you know have
[1:29:50] some sort of non-rine destruction or
[1:29:52] propose or destruction or disposal of
[1:29:55] city property. Um see uh the and the
[1:30:00] last uh thing I I have city business
[1:30:04] here comes back to the agenda and I'm
[1:30:07] going to look at the attorney when I say
[1:30:09] this. I mean the agenda was set you know
[1:30:12] uh almost two weeks ago. Okay. Uh and
[1:30:16] then the agenda was given to the city
[1:30:19] council on Wednesday which is 5 days
[1:30:21] ago. And today we get your 15page
[1:30:25] PowerPoint. Uh,
[1:30:28] I'm sorry that I I don't find that as as
[1:30:31] being good business practice. Give me
[1:30:33] that PowerPoint 5 days out so I can look
[1:30:35] through it. I can study it and I can
[1:30:37] come up with questions. I mean, I truly
[1:30:39] appreciate the fact that you're reading
[1:30:41] a PowerPoint to me that I can read all
[1:30:42] by myself. But, uh, for those that
[1:30:46] didn't have the opportunity, you know,
[1:30:48] and I've been on council for a long
[1:30:49] time, so you're not telling me anything
[1:30:51] new, but there are questions there. And
[1:30:55] for people that, you know, uh, you know,
[1:30:58] have questions, they should be able to
[1:31:00] be prepared to ask those questions
[1:31:02] because they've looked at it, uh, prior
[1:31:05] to the meeting, you know, not just show
[1:31:08] up and sitting on my desk there's a
[1:31:09] 15page, you know, word intensive
[1:31:13] PowerPoint. Uh, you know, I I I just
[1:31:15] don't think that was, you know, I
[1:31:17] appreciate the training. It's required
[1:31:19] by the code, but I I think there's a
[1:31:21] better way to do that. That's just a
[1:31:23] >> personal opinion there
[1:31:25] » personal opinion there
[1:31:25] >> through the chair to council member
[1:31:26] » through the chair to council member
[1:31:26] Graham. I continue to hear hear what I
[1:31:30] will do is information and it's not the
[1:31:32] city attorney a lot of times director we
[1:31:35] we get powerpoints because there is no
[1:31:38] action to be taken we do get them later
[1:31:40] if I don't have a powerpoint when the
[1:31:42] packet closes I will just work to
[1:31:44] reschedu that then
[1:31:46] >> I I think that would be most helpful
[1:31:49] » I I think that would be most helpful
[1:31:49] because it allows the council to study
[1:31:52] whatever it is that's coming up and have
[1:31:54] reasonable questions
[1:31:55] >> I'm going to [clears throat] say
[1:31:56] » I'm going to [clears throat] say
[1:31:56] something and I'm really sorry if this
[1:31:58] impacts the way that you see my
[1:31:59] performance. When I prepare a
[1:32:01] PowerPoint, I do it to prepare myself
[1:32:03] for the presentation. I provide you the
[1:32:05] PowerPoint because I think it's a great
[1:32:07] resource. I don't provide it as
[1:32:09] something to study before the the
[1:32:11] presentation. We are very busy and
[1:32:14] predominantly with projects all very
[1:32:17] important. When I do a 30 minute
[1:32:18] training, the likelihood of me preparing
[1:32:21] that over a week ahead of time and
[1:32:23] creating a PowerPoint for your
[1:32:26] digestion, I just I I will try to do
[1:32:28] that, but I that's just not how I
[1:32:32] do a presentation as opposed to say a
[1:32:35] PowerPoint like some of the title 16
[1:32:38] PowerPoints. Sometimes those PowerPoints
[1:32:40] are designed to be coordinated with with
[1:32:43] like documents. So, we'll have handouts
[1:32:46] and attachments and worksheets and a
[1:32:49] PowerPoint that's that goes with a
[1:32:51] manual when we do like a 4hour session.
[1:32:54] Those usually I will absolutely make
[1:32:56] sure those those can be in the packet.
[1:32:59] And it is but I just I hear the clerk
[1:33:01] saying she'll reschedule if there's not
[1:33:03] a PowerPoint in your packet.
[1:33:05] I just I'm I'm telling you the reason
[1:33:07] why I prepared that PowerPoint was to
[1:33:10] help me talk to you today and I give you
[1:33:12] a copy of that PowerPoint so you could
[1:33:14] basically get a copy of my notes. It's
[1:33:16] not so that you can be prepared by
[1:33:19] reading the PowerPoint ahead of time.
[1:33:22] >> Well, if if I may suggest, Madam
[1:33:24] » Well, if if I may suggest, Madam
[1:33:24] Attorney, if that's the point, just send
[1:33:26] us a cassette tape with the training on
[1:33:28] it. And you know, I mean, the whole idea
[1:33:30] is for us to be able to look at that and
[1:33:32] say, you know, why,
[1:33:35] you know, why is this thing in there
[1:33:36] about tips? Why is this why is it
[1:33:38] $1,000? Why is, you know, is for us to
[1:33:42] learn from it. Uh, you know, this is,
[1:33:45] you know, not not to just uh have you
[1:33:49] give us information, but to have you
[1:33:51] give us information that will stick with
[1:33:52] us and make us better public officials.
[1:33:54] So you don't take it as a personal
[1:33:57] comment but as a but as an instructor
[1:33:59] you know someone who has uh you know
[1:34:02] considerable and and con experience in
[1:34:05] instruction can tell you uh you know if
[1:34:07] if you're just going to stand in front
[1:34:09] of somebody and talk you know 80% of
[1:34:11] what you tell them is gone by the time
[1:34:13] your presentation is done. Whereas if
[1:34:14] they're prepared you know which is why
[1:34:16] teachers give homework you know read
[1:34:18] chapter one and then we're going to talk
[1:34:19] about chapter one tomorrow. Uh that's
[1:34:22] you know that's the whole idea is is to
[1:34:24] better prepare and have better retention
[1:34:27] but that's my personal thing which has
[1:34:29] doesn't reflect the view of the council.
[1:34:31] Let me make sure make that clear so I
[1:34:32] don't have an ethics violation here. So
[1:34:34] but [laughter] but but anyway I would
[1:34:38] find that very handy. You're going to do
[1:34:40] the PowerPoint anyway.
[1:34:42] >> Maybe I think for now on I might not do
[1:34:44] » Maybe I think for now on I might not do
[1:34:44] them because I I mean I'm torn on
[1:34:45] powerpoints. It sounds like I believe
[1:34:48] that powerpoints detract attention from
[1:34:50] the words that you're saying a lot of
[1:34:52] times and people get focused on right.
[1:34:54] So that's the pro and con. So it might
[1:34:56] be that you a better a well-prepared
[1:34:59] powerpoint that isn't just a lot of
[1:35:02] words and you know pointing to the code
[1:35:06] would meet what you're asking for
[1:35:07] council member Graham better and that
[1:35:09] would be something to be prepared and
[1:35:11] submitted in the packet as a real tool
[1:35:13] for council. And when we're doing
[1:35:15] trainings like this one, I think maybe a
[1:35:18] worksheet where we're interactive and
[1:35:20] we're working through some of the
[1:35:21] provisions might fit better as opposed
[1:35:23] to a PowerPoint that we lay down on the
[1:35:26] table. So, I'll I'll talk to clerk and
[1:35:29] we'll figure out how to
[1:35:31] >> and that'd be great. My my biggest
[1:35:33] » and that'd be great. My my biggest
[1:35:33] concern is that we actually get training
[1:35:36] out of it instead of just, you know,
[1:35:38] saying, "Yeah, we checked that box." So,
[1:35:40] thank you. Uh
[1:35:44] um I think that's it for tonight. Madame
[1:35:46] Deputy Mayor, thank you.
[1:35:48] >> Council member Craftton.
[1:35:51] » Council member Craftton.
[1:35:51] >> Thank you, Dep Madame Deputy Mayor. Um
[1:35:54] » Thank you, Dep Madame Deputy Mayor. Um
[1:35:54] Stu took a couple things, but I did want
[1:35:56] to mention them as well. Uh the the
[1:35:59] first was the park um situation. I agree
[1:36:02] wholeheartedly about the fact that we
[1:36:04] just learned about this this last week
[1:36:06] when we got this agenda. Um, I mean I I
[1:36:10] would have a question for the clerk or
[1:36:11] the attorney. I mean, is this something
[1:36:13] that we could I mean we can't write the
[1:36:15] policy, but do we need to codify what
[1:36:18] has to be communicated to the council
[1:36:20] basically as soon as possible? I mean,
[1:36:24] this is something that could have ended
[1:36:25] up in an email saying, "Hey, this is
[1:36:28] what we're doing. Heads up." I mean,
[1:36:30] look across the street. That ended up in
[1:36:33] an email after the fact again. But
[1:36:35] still, it I've talked with the mayor or
[1:36:38] not mayor, excuse me, the clerk about
[1:36:40] this and I always say too, like I don't
[1:36:42] want to codify something that might end
[1:36:45] up binding a future mayor because every
[1:36:47] mayor is a little different. They have
[1:36:49] strengths and weaknesses and the current
[1:36:52] administration, I should say more so,
[1:36:54] just seems to not communicate some of
[1:36:56] these things to us. And so I don't want
[1:36:58] to feel like the next mayor has to do
[1:37:01] certain things if they're okay with
[1:37:02] doing or they have a certain style or I
[1:37:04] mean things that happen with uh with our
[1:37:06] police department too. Same thing. Uh I
[1:37:09] feel like there are certain times that
[1:37:10] the council should be communicated with
[1:37:12] uh about what's happening city
[1:37:14] business-wise. So we're not learning
[1:37:16] about it on Facebook. And whenever a
[1:37:18] constituent calls us up and says, "Hey,
[1:37:20] I have questions about this." And we
[1:37:22] have to go, "I have no idea what you're
[1:37:24] talking about." I mean, it's our job to
[1:37:26] be informed and be the ones
[1:37:27] communicating it to them, not the other
[1:37:29] way around generally. [clears throat]
[1:37:31] Don't get me wrong, I love hearing that
[1:37:32] because again, that's how I also stay
[1:37:34] informed. You can't keep up with
[1:37:35] everything. So, I know it's kind of a
[1:37:37] open-ended question and it isn't
[1:37:39] necessarily something that needs to be
[1:37:40] answered right now, but maybe a future
[1:37:42] conversation that we might have to have
[1:37:44] uh around communication with council
[1:37:46] because again uh I can't remember the
[1:37:48] dates, but the fact that again it was a
[1:37:50] month ago that it was taken out and this
[1:37:52] is we just heard about it this past
[1:37:54] week. Um
[1:37:57] Mr. Graham also brought a point about
[1:37:59] the the powerpoints. Um Holly, I'm just
[1:38:01] going to pick on you with it because
[1:38:03] you're the one that did it tonight. Um,
[1:38:05] I'll be honest, when when I get people
[1:38:07] that start reading from a PowerPoint,
[1:38:09] I'm gone. Like I'm I'm not I I just
[1:38:12] again, it's the fact that I can read it
[1:38:14] and so I feel like I'm being read to and
[1:38:17] I'm I'm I'm pulling up the code. I'm
[1:38:19] looking at it. I I I do like the
[1:38:21] PowerPoints because I think it gives us
[1:38:23] something to follow along with. I think
[1:38:25] it gives the public something to follow
[1:38:26] along with because I can guarantee you
[1:38:28] 80% of the people that show up here
[1:38:30] aren't pulling the agenda and reading it
[1:38:31] and going through every line in detail
[1:38:33] like we are as as as a council. Uh so I
[1:38:36] think it does it is helpful. I think
[1:38:39] again condensing it. I actually just a
[1:38:41] moment ago there was a book I read a
[1:38:42] while back that that was the whole
[1:38:44] concept was learning not to read from
[1:38:46] powerpoints and how to utilize
[1:38:47] powerpoints as as a way to uh convey
[1:38:50] your ideas without having to read from
[1:38:52] them. So, can't remember what the book
[1:38:54] was, but again, I would like them, but I
[1:38:56] agree with Mr. Graham. I'd like to see
[1:38:57] them sooner so that again, I can take a
[1:39:00] moment, digest it, and be ready to
[1:39:02] actually discuss it and have questions.
[1:39:04] Uh, instead of feeling like I'm
[1:39:05] constantly on the back foot, uh, and
[1:39:08] then there was questions I had in here.
[1:39:10] And again, because we had moved on and
[1:39:13] felt like I was being read to, I just
[1:39:15] went back there and was looking at back
[1:39:16] and forth. I ended up answering my own
[1:39:17] question. Uh, but still, I felt like I
[1:39:19] could have been prepared to ask those
[1:39:21] questions ahead of time. Um, so yeah.
[1:39:23] And then last thing, uh, Mr. Sterns
[1:39:25] actually came up to me before the
[1:39:26] meeting and brought this up. Uh, this
[1:39:28] Saturday is Small Business Saturday, and
[1:39:30] I was curious. I'm not sure who this
[1:39:32] would go to, unfortunately, the mayor
[1:39:33] and Crystal Nygard's not here, but I
[1:39:35] feel like it would be a good question. I
[1:39:37] believe the chamber does something for
[1:39:40] small business Saturday where they
[1:39:41] announce, hey, these are all our small
[1:39:43] businesses. These are our retail ones.
[1:39:45] Do we convey any information to them? Do
[1:39:48] we assist them in any capacity to try
[1:39:51] and say, "Hey, you know, these are some
[1:39:53] small businesses in our our city here. I
[1:39:55] understand that there's a fine balance
[1:39:57] because we can't seem like we're
[1:39:59] promoting certain businesses over other
[1:40:01] ones." Um, but do we have any type of
[1:40:04] joint effort with them on how we can
[1:40:08] work to promote small businesses at all
[1:40:11] or can we?
[1:40:13] Mr. Graham seems like you might want to
[1:40:15] answer it, but go ahead Jamie if you
[1:40:16] want to.
[1:40:17] I was I was just going to say Mr. what
[1:40:20] much more suited to answer this but
[1:40:22] because chamber is a a private organ a
[1:40:24] membership based organization I imagine
[1:40:26] their role is to promote
[1:40:28] >> members of chamber but I don't know
[1:40:32] » members of chamber but I don't know
[1:40:32] >> the clerk is correct it is the role of
[1:40:34] » the clerk is correct it is the role of
[1:40:34] the chamber to to promote the community
[1:40:36] in general and businesses in particular
[1:40:39] and for the past couple of years the
[1:40:42] chamber has not
[1:40:45] really actively promoted small business
[1:40:47] Saturday in Palmer they do the chamber
[1:40:50] takes a different role there and tries
[1:40:52] to bring people into Palmer to uh to
[1:40:55] spend money, you know, which collects
[1:40:56] sales tax of course, but uh the Wasilla
[1:40:59] Chamber hasn't done that in the past.
[1:41:01] Our our or hasn't done it in the last
[1:41:03] couple of years. Our role, the city's
[1:41:06] role in the last couple years has been
[1:41:08] to uh sponsor activities that the
[1:41:11] chamber does, but since they have no
[1:41:14] activity that I'm aware of for Small
[1:41:17] Business Saturday, and there was no
[1:41:18] opportunity for sponsorship or
[1:41:20] promotion, the city did not fund
[1:41:23] anything to that. Does that help, Mr. C?
[1:41:25] >> It it helps. So, I guess my question
[1:41:27] » It it helps. So, I guess my question
[1:41:27] would be because I understand that maybe
[1:41:29] a business doesn't want to be fully
[1:41:32] publicized. So, I mean, is it a question
[1:41:34] we could ask them of saying, "Hey, when
[1:41:35] Small Business Saturday comes up, we
[1:41:37] just want to publish a list that says
[1:41:39] these are the small businesses inside
[1:41:40] the city of Wasilla. We're not endorsing
[1:41:42] them. We're not sponsoring them. We're
[1:41:44] just telling you these are the retail
[1:41:45] businesses. If you want to go shop,
[1:41:47] they're great." Because I mean, you'd be
[1:41:49] surprised at how many small businesses
[1:41:50] people don't know about because unless
[1:41:52] you drive by them, you don't know a lot
[1:41:55] of times or you're not in that little
[1:41:56] niche. Is Is that a possibility that
[1:42:00] we're allowed to do?
[1:42:02] And if there's no answer right now, then
[1:42:04] that's fine. I mean, just food for
[1:42:06] thought. I can get the answer later. I
[1:42:09] see a lot of questioning face, confused
[1:42:10] faces, so I'll go with that. So, other
[1:42:12] than that, uh, happy Thanksgiving,
[1:42:14] everybody. It was a very good meeting.
[1:42:15] Thank you all for staying here. I know
[1:42:17] we're all here talking a lot tonight,
[1:42:19] but I appreciate you all for appreciate
[1:42:20] you all for staying and have a safe
[1:42:22] Thanksgiving. And we'll see you guys
[1:42:24] we'll see the council at AML uh for the
[1:42:27] five of us going and the rest of you on
[1:42:29] the 15th.
[1:42:31] Council member Codle.
[1:42:34] >> Thank you, Madam Deputy Mayor. Um,
[1:42:37] » Thank you, Madam Deputy Mayor. Um,
[1:42:37] I'm not going to beat a dead horse with
[1:42:38] the park equipment. Um, but I think we
[1:42:41] can do better with communication. You
[1:42:43] know, an ounce of prevention is worth a
[1:42:44] pound of cure and nobody likes getting
[1:42:47] beat up over issues. Um, I would have
[1:42:50] had questions regarding some of this
[1:42:51] equipment before it was removed, but
[1:42:53] it's a it's a moot point now. Um, but I
[1:42:56] think we can do better with with
[1:42:58] communication and not only from
[1:43:00] departments to us, but from us to
[1:43:02] departments, too. So, um, Holly,
[1:43:07] I I'm I'm just going to say thank you
[1:43:09] for your training.
[1:43:11] [laughter] We've all been through
[1:43:12] training. Everybody here learns
[1:43:14] differently.
[1:43:16] Some are visual, some are a audio, you
[1:43:19] know. Um, and I it is the job of each
[1:43:24] council member to know our ethics code,
[1:43:29] but your trainings are good. And I think
[1:43:32] that you can never have too much of
[1:43:34] that. I have sat through, you know,
[1:43:35] training here with the commissions and I
[1:43:39] think it's always good to have the
[1:43:40] refreshers no matter how they're
[1:43:42] delivered. So, thank you. Um, and just
[1:43:45] want to wish everybody happy
[1:43:46] Thanksgiving.
[1:43:49] Council member Johnson.
[1:43:54] » Yes. Thank you, uh, Deputy Mayor and
[1:43:56] Council. Uh, I will choose to beat the
[1:44:01] dead horse, but for a different reason.
[1:44:05] I was really disappointed with 2518.
[1:44:10] I have long complained on Nukem Park on
[1:44:14] Iditarod Park and now we find Lucille
[1:44:17] Park's equipment is not being
[1:44:20] maintained.
[1:44:22] My discouragement is the fact that we in
[1:44:24] the city is not maintaining the stuff.
[1:44:26] Oh, then we find out that it's broken to
[1:44:29] the point where we've got to re remove
[1:44:31] it all together. This is unacceptable.
[1:44:35] As far as training goes, I really love
[1:44:38] training. I believe that the training
[1:44:41] should be posted in a training folder
[1:44:44] because this is not the first time that
[1:44:46] we've had ethics training. And guess
[1:44:49] what? It won't be the last. So why do we
[1:44:52] have to recreate all of the powerpoints
[1:44:55] every time by somebody? Maybe we update
[1:44:58] them, but they should be online so we
[1:45:01] all could review in ahead. So when we
[1:45:03] see training is coming up, go to the
[1:45:05] boulder and look at the training. Thank
[1:45:07] you. Everybody has should have a nice
[1:45:10] Thanksgiving. Goodbye,
[1:45:14] >> Council Member Schmidt.
[1:45:17] » Council Member Schmidt.
[1:45:17] >> I [clears throat] want to say thank you
[1:45:18] » I [clears throat] want to say thank you
[1:45:18] for the PowerPoint. I really enjoyed it.
[1:45:20] Um, I did learn a few things on it
[1:45:22] because I haven't sat through it myself
[1:45:24] and uh do I do approve that and I am
[1:45:28] glad we finally got through the uh
[1:45:30] downtown overlay and got that removed.
[1:45:33] Um, I think that was stifling to a lot
[1:45:35] of our businesses here and the the
[1:45:37] community and I think that was a huge
[1:45:39] win for tonight. That's all I've got.
[1:45:42] Happy Thanksgiving
[1:45:45] >> and I'll bring it back to me. All right,
[1:45:47] » and I'll bring it back to me. All right,
[1:45:47] I got to end on a high note, joyful
[1:45:49] note. Um, I dropped the puck at the Guns
[1:45:52] and Hoses this last weekend and uh,
[1:45:55] Scott, the Menard Center, it was packed.
[1:45:59] It's beautiful. I like I found myself a
[1:46:02] few times just sitting back and going,
[1:46:04] "Wow."
[1:46:05] Like, you've done an amazing job. Um,
[1:46:08] that event was awesome, too. And then
[1:46:10] I'm just going to say happy Thanksgiving
[1:46:12] to everybody. And looking at the clock
[1:46:14] with no further business at hand I'm
[1:46:16] adjuring the meeting unless objection is
[1:46:18] raised. No good reach for it. It was I
[1:46:22] was hearing none. The media is a