general in this case
.
>> all right.
Good evening everyone.
Will call the tuesday MAY 31st
twenty twenty two meeting of
the finance committee to order
all members of the committee
are present will stand please
stand for the pledge of
allegiance.
One nation.
Next item on the agenda is
public comment and this is open
to residents and folks that own
property in the city of
waukesha.
So if there's folks that are
here for public comment tonight
,please come to the center
microphone and if you'd give us
your name and address and then
you have three minutes to
address the committee so anyone
here for public comment?
>> hi everybody.
I think I've talked to all of
you privately on the phone.
My name is christina taft.
My address is three three five
oh wait this will help him.
>> I know my address but my
address is three three months
old replumbed my address is
three three five s heartwell
avenue emulsify resident and my
husband and I own two
businesses in the downtown
waukesha.
>> I'm here tonight to show my
support for the behavioral
health responder program for
verber.
I'm sure you're aware we
witnessed issues in the
downtown area that are caused
by mental health or addiction
often in addition to the mental
health or addiction issue.
The individuals are homeless.
our police department does a
great job responding in various
ways but they can only do so
much by themselves.
After all, being mentally ill,
addicted or homeless is not a
crime.
I love the idea of having a non
law enforcement behavioral
professional to respond to
mental and behavioral health
crisis as we in full support of
this program to aid our police
department and our community
and we hope you are too.
I'd also like to thank you for
considering the central city
storefront program.
I believe the program can help
many building owners get the
older buildings up to code as
our businesses and downtown
activities grow we take pride
in the historic charm of our
downtown buildings.
However, as you MAY guess,
retrofitting the older
buildings with modern amenities
can be pretty pricey.
I own one building downtown and
leased the there for our
business.
We recently had quotes done to
determine the cost of
sprinkling for both buildings.
One building was quoted at one
hundred and forty thousand
dollars and the other at
270000.
Those quotes do not include
repairing the street and
sidewalk after lateral adequate
for fire suppression is
installed.
There would be in addition
additional cost to those things
.
I wanted to share some real
world numbers with you as you
determine the funding for this
program and how the funds would
be dispersed.
I would ask you to please
consider doing a hybrid grant
loan program for that so we can
get a lot of those things up to
code and and make the downtown
businesses and buildings
interior a little bit more
modern while still keeping that
historic downtown chen, thank
you.
>> great.
Thank any other members of the
public wish to speak before the
committee ceiling.
And again sir, if you'd please
give us your name and address.
Good evening.
My name is keith klasky one
zero zero nine lynn drive
waukesha five three one eight
six.
I'm one of the owners of house
of dennis pub downtown waukesha
and would like to speak in
favor of the behavioral health
responder program.
Everyone in the downtown area
has their own stories about
some of the homeless and and
mentally challenged people that
have decided to be in the area.
So I'm not going to go into
that.
I would just like to say that
having a family member that had
mental challenges who is at
this point deceased, I think
that it would have helped us a
lot as the family to have a
program like this in place.
>> I'd also like to speak in
favor of the central city
storefront program as with
everything else contract costs
are are skyrocketing.
>> we're currently in the
process of beautifying our
interior.
our initial quote changed by
about 68000 dollars by the time
they decided to give us a final
quote because of their
subcontractors and what they
decided the pricing should be.
>> that's made us have the pull
back by about a third of what
we wanted to do inside the
building.
>> we continue to discuss
working with putting in a
kitchen weekly.
We get people asking if we can
do sit down dinners at the pub
.
The edge of the building
doesn't help because we would
have to actually raise the
ceiling in the basement in
order to put in the hood system
necessary to vent.
We are grateful for any support
that we can get from the city
to do these kinds of projects
to update these older downtown
buildings but we would really
like to see it include grants
and as well as low interest
loans to help us move move the
buildings long term to safety
code and beautification.
>> thank you.
Thank you very much.
Good evening.
I know some of you I'm laura
lau.
I'm a circuit court judge for
waukesha county.
>> I'm here for the mental
health responders program and
the possibile of that being
something that waukesha could
use.
>> I've been in the court
system for just about 22 years,
18 years is circuit court
commissioner and coming up on
four as a circuit court judge,
I'm assigned only to criminal
courts.
>> so that's all I do for eight
years I did emergency mental
commitments so had a lot of
definitely a lot of hands on
with people that are having
mental health issues.
>> tell you a little bit about
me because gives you some frame
of reference.
>> I'm waukesha chadbourne.
My parents were born in
waukesha.
I graduated from north.
My dad was a csc operator at
waukesha engin my mom was a
typesetter at the waukesha
freeman.
>> I share that with you
because we went through some
periods where if you've lived
here for a long time the uh the
factories in the foundries
closed and we had a housing
challenge and our family and we
survived on surplus cheese and
thrift store bread for several
several years.
>> I tell you that because I
think my daughter is also a
lawyer and it's been said to
her she goes must be nice being
born with a silver spoon in
your mouth.
>> and I think if you don't
know if somebody is a journey
you kind of don't understand
where their passions lie.
>> in addition to that, we've
had some mental health
challenges.
I lost my husband who is a vice
PRESIDENT At wuxia state bank
to suicide.
So those are things that have
touched my life.
>> I've been on non-profits for
over 30 years and waukesha just
finished as the PRESIDENT Of
the nami board.
>> I'm here because I
understand and I've seen how
waukesha has changed over you
know I'm fifty nine you know,
fifty nine years and the
challenges that we have and as
we're growing as a community
and we have a definitely
different socio economic
situation that's coming into
our community, it's wonderful,
you know that we have nami who
has the two people we have
sunny and matt who are the you
know the boots on the street
during working hours.
>> however they don't work
nights.
>> they don't work weekends and
I I'll give you an example.
>> christina had someone GOD
bless her friday we had coffee
that night she had someone that
was basically kind of wandering
around one of their businesses.
>> she stopped to talk to that
person, ended up driving him to
the hospital which is something
that she's been doing which you
know, you really just can't do.
>> it's not safe.
And so she and I spoke
afterwards and then we see
capped him.
He has over three screens and
seekamp and I've actually had
him in court before and he's
not a criminal.
>> he's somebody that has a
mental health challenge.
>> and so I think I don't have
the solution for this.
>> I really just became aware
of this issue.
>> but we've got to do
something where we're bringing
in people that you know, have
that training.
>> the police are overwhelmed.
>> they're absolutely
overwhelmed about 20 seconds.
Ok, so you know, I really think
that it's important that we
incorporate someone our
legislature passed a law like
the emergency medical commands.
>> now you have to have a
mental health professional like
that goes that's by law.
>> I don't think we can wait
for something like that.
So I'm interested if you're
going to put a task force
together or anything like that,
I would be more than happy to
lend any assistance that I can.
>> thank you.
Thank you.
Any other public wish to speak
this evening?
All right.
Seeing none of them.
We're going to move down to the
last item on our agenda this
evening.
We have a number of folks staff
and directors that are here for
item number e which is
discussion and possible action
on the proposed plan for the
arpa funds.
>> with that I'll pass it to
MR. Laner.
Thank you.
I'm getting logged in here so I
just have a brief update from
our previous meeting going over
some of the changes that I made
based upon the feedback I have
a couple of slides and then I
have a spreadsheet that I can
share with you that shows the
updates and then obviously we
can have any sort of discussion
we have additionally we have
folks here to present
additional information about
economic study related to
nootka park and so that was
just recently completed and it
kind of gives you a bigger,
broader view of that project as
well.
So I only have a few slides but
I just wanted to let you know
kind of the direction that we
that I went with the outline
and of course just remind
everybody that this is this is
an outline it's not a cement
and stone plan.
It just kind of gives us a
green light to start working on
things in more detail and
obviously things change if
there's different priorities
that come up along the way we
will make adjustments as we go.
>> so just in terms of what
changed from the previous
meeting based upon the feedback
I we added an additional five
hundred thousand to the storm
water projects.
Those are projects that are
within our ship currently and
as we were talking about it,
number one, it's it's one of
the called out eligible
expenses and number two, we
have a long term study related
to stormwater issues that we
are working through the city
and so this would just dedicate
more funds to those issues and
addressing areas that are prone
to flooding and things like
that throughout the city and
just add a little bit more and
get those things done a little
more quickly than we otherwise
would have plus obviously not
showing debt for those
projects.
I added a line for capital
projects and so this would just
be something to that would be
non debt revenue that we could
apply to whatever capital
project that we chose that's
within the sipi currently it
could be a road project, could
be any sort of project that we
would like to do.
I'm related to that and again
it would just offset any sort
of debt that we'd have to issue
for those projects, increase
the the central city storefront
program to eight hundred
thousand.
It was previously five hundred
thousand and so those are the
some of the things that I did
in terms of updating the
funding remove the electric
vehicles project and I want to
make sure that folks know that
we didn't do it because we
don't think that there's value
in but in working with john
from the city garage there is a
lot of federal funds that are
coming in to electric vehicles
in other ways, specifically
carbon reduction grant program
is one that is out there and
there's just and there's other
grant funding programs that I
think that if we're going to go
down that road it would be a
better vehicle for that.
I do think that it's something
that we do need to continue to
explore because it is where a
lot of the vehicles are going
and that we should get a handle
on stuff like cost of ownership
and the utility for our
purposes and stuff like that.
But we have removed that from
this arpa outline and are
exploring other grant programs
for that the broadband network
again it's we think that
there's a lot of value there
but the the the cost of running
the the system the operating
cost really we put a burden on
us from a tax levy standpoint,
an operating budget standpoint.
I'd like to find a ways to
generate some additional
revenue from it so I wouldn't
call that a dead project.
If we can find partners where
we can offset our operating
costs in some way and we'll
continue to explore we have
been talking to the school
district pretty regularly but
we haven't found a way to to to
get there on operating costs so
we wouldn't want to put that
burden on our operating revenue
and so that we took out for now
and then we took out the
streetscapes project on white
rock avenue as well.
So just really the summary if
you look at it you could break
it down into broad categories.
We have two point two million
going into public safety
programs, some stuff that we
already approved and then an
additional things that we
outlined previously.
We have four point four million
going into capital projects and
one of those is the manocha
project which is a revenue
generating project in the long
term we have one point five
million going into economic
development, one point seven
million going into affordable
housing and eight hundred
ninety one thousand going into
sustainability efficiency
programs.
And so I'm going to switch my
screen here and just kind of
show you what that looks like
on our spreadsheet.
So you know what and I I failed
in terms of I did not introduce
my sidekick tonight.
>> this is britain, a future
city administrator.
he's just come in to fill
figure out how it feels to sit
up here so no pressure be so so
we have on the spreadsheet
those are the changes I've I've
outlined them down here in
terms of what we change and
what we added increased but
it's the same dollar amounts
the allocation numbers in terms
of when they were being
allocated changed just a little
bit based on some feedback.
But other than that we did we
have the error shade project
that's still here.
The mindiola project that the
led conversions, the snow
melter as I mentioned the store
the central city store front
activation project which we
increased the project the
economic development project
the we already discussed public
safety here the pds or changes
babri else responder again and
so on.
And so based upon that feedback
those are the changes that I
made and I know that you
requested some additional
information regarding some of
these things and I know the
folks that did the economic
development study around
minicar here mindiola excuse me
adeola are here to present
their information as well and I
don't know if you want to go to
the presentation first I can
ask answer questions.
It's up to you guys.
Yeah I guess I'd bring it back
to the committee and I think
just in the interest of folks
that are here tonight maybe it
would be ok to shift to the
minneola presentation and then
we can kind of take questions
from there because I know that
something that we asked for.
>> so ron, if you wanted to
come up and kind of take us
through the mindiola project,
the floor is yours.
Thank you, kevin.
>> thank you.
Paul ryan piper in the
committee.
>> I'll I'll do a preamble to
the presentation to kind of
walk you through what we know
to try to cover and do as
concisely as possible.
>> I had asked jennifer andrews
community development director
to speak tonight give us some
background on when we really
started talking more seriously
about developmental a complex
over minneola and back in 2000
there was I should say in back
in 2020 there was a study that
was done by uw.
>> I am planning urban planning
department and I think that
does a nice job.
>> and jennifer is going to
briefly nick on that how the
discussion started with
revitalizing sunset drive
especially that center corridor
section of sunset drive and we
I think we all agree needs some
of the attention and and most
importantly what was identified
with that is that this type of
complex development would be
excellent.
Catullus for revitalizing that
area.
So I will start with with
jennifer to touch on that study
from ibm and then we have MR.
Brian dowling from johnson
consulting, the recently
completed the economic impact
study which takes that uw study
a step further.
And here the focus is on the
actual complex and what impact
that complex would have
financially for the community
and then certainly be here to
entertain any questions.
The wrap it up as far as the
park timing, whatever.
>> I do want to add that we did
have a letter of support from
the waukesha pewaukee
convention visitors bureau as
well that came out kind of
eleventh hour.
>> so if you didn't catch that
,I apologize for that.
>> so certainly there's a lot
of excitement from that area as
well.
>> so with that jennifer, if
you could come on up jennifer
if you could just introduce
yourself for the folks at home
that became jennifer andrews
and the community development
director for the city waukesha.
And when there is discussion
about moving minor league
baseball into mindiola park
that part of sunset really came
to the attention in the
forefront of the redevelopment
authority.
>> and so although baseball
didn't move forward, there was
a secondary plan of developing
the park into a soccer complex
and in the meantime the
redevelopment authority became
more engaged in how can we
improve the area and bolster
some redevelopment in the area
recognizing that there had been
some vacancy and some continued
decline in long sunset drive
between grand and prairie.
>> so in anticipation of the
parks project in the
redevelopment of mindiola park
which I thought was an economic
driver we engaged with uw to
look at the area and provide
some suggestions back to the
redevelopment authority and
they provided a report and we
had a nice discussion during
covid over zoome about their
report but basically they
outlined zoning updates that
could be made adaptive reuse of
particular buildings and they
also identified street scaping
and wayfinding as an
opportunity for city investment
to start to enhance the area
and by doing those things
believing along with the
improvements mindiola park they
believe that that would attract
investment.
New businesses, new to
redevelopment projects to the
area.
>> so after we went through
that project we community
development redevelopment
authority jointly with the
parks department engaged
brandon dowling in johnson
consulting to do an economic
development an economic impact
study for us.
>> so we're just trying to put
the pieces together to see how
much impact this could have and
also what kind of businesses or
development we should be
focused on to attract to the
area.
>> what makes the most sense if
this is going to be a soccer
complex and so we engage
johnson consulting and
brandon's here tonight and he's
going to walk through his
presentation.
We did do this in front of the
redevelopment authority as
well.
So I know a little bit familiar
with that but that's a little
bit of the background of how we
got here to this part of the
presentation with the economic
development studies.
>> so brandon, not sure if I
have control here so I'm going
to talk loud.
That's ok with you all.
>> maybe one and one second.
And sir, could you please
introduce yourself for sure
that my name is brandon darling
and with johnson consulting I'm
not sure if I have.
>> sure.
Yeah, I just want to be able to
brand and I think I think brad
can come out and see if we can
get that up on the screen here
.
>> it's on my screen.
I don't not advance it guess
what it from here instead of
that I still want to sit in
front of that please sit it's
fine.
Ok fine brenda and that
microphone right there to your
to your left there should be a
look that's that's good.
>> thank you.
All right.
Well good evening and thank you
again for having me here today
again brandon darling johnson
consulting I am a principal
with the firm just a little bit
about us and who we are.
We were started about
twenty seven years ago.
We specialize in market
financial feasibility studies
particularly for public
assembly type fagon venue.
So convention centers,
conference centers,
recreational facilities,
stadiums, arenas as well as the
mixed use developments that are
usually sprouting around those
.
And so I led our effort on this
economic impact study that
we're here to kind of share a
brief summary and help share a
little bit of our findings from
that analysis.
Pretty familiar with the area
we're based out of chicago just
recently a few different venues
here regionally the marquette
university athletic performance
facility as well as the new
stadium in franklin.
So we we helped with both those
market and financial
feasibility studies for those
venues.
So just jumping right in I
thought I kind of give a brief
overview of our scope.
>> it was in essence really to
assess what the concept and
program was put forth for
minneola park and part of our
work was really jumping in and
understanding what the market
opportunity the demographic in
the area is and leveraging that
and understanding sort of what
the regional and competitive
marketplace MAY look like and
then from there really
articulating what the overall
economic impact could be.
So this is should be nothing
new.
The overall concern of what the
redevelopment for mindiola park
would be so this is sort of
what we analyze from a number
of fields and the overall scope
.
You know, one of the things I
think we shared early on is
sort of the limitation of the
site and in terms of the number
of fields and size of fields
and so you'll see in a lot of
our numbers I would say we're
probably culturally
conservative just by way of
background some of these other
facilities and you'll see in
the case studies are much
larger size and scope in terms
of acreage.
>> I think you all have about
20 acres of some sort you know
,traditionally we could see
these in the range of eighty.
We just finished one on 380
acres.
>> so sports tourism is in
itself kind of bringing
visitors towards the sporty
sports events has really boomed
kind of growing from the
original recession in 2008 and
continuing to grow year over
year.
Just a snapshot of some of the
key characteristics and I'll
highlight this graph a little
bit real quick on the right and
kind of qualify why we look at
these three areas, if you will,
the orange the baby blue and
the navy blue the thirty minute
hour and a half for our
effectively your three segments
that we analyze the thirty and
it being sort of your primary
target market.
What we found at a national
level is mom dad caretaker are
not going to travel greater
than that four weekday
practices and games and events
the hour and a half is more
sort of your regional draw
daytrippers and for our is
likely your overnight larger
tournament demand.
So you're just looking at sort
of the historical and the
projected population growth
fairly consistent on a national
average.
You know, one of the things i
think is unique as you all MAY
know is the density that you're
able to pull from in particular
just from an hour drive time.
Right.
That's a pretty significant
number when we look at these on
a national level mainly given
the major metropolitan areas
that you all are our
neighboring and the other is as
median household income these
types of venues really lend
themselves to disposable income
given if you're, you know,
catering towards sports tourism
really from a travel
standpoint, you know, this
venue I think is going to be
largely local recreational with
the ability to host smaller I
would say regional tournaments.
>> and so you'll see this in
some of our projections one of
the areas and it kind of speaks
to what jennifer talking about
hotels when we analyze the
market there is about eight
hundred and twenty one there's
about another 300 I
understanding coming in the
pipeline just overall that's a
little light especially if
you're going to be bringing the
number of visitors that we
think this facility would be
bringing.
So in terms of identifying the
types of development that MAY
make sense in terms of that
redevelopment, some form of
hotel component we think would
be ideal and then obviously
sort of the family
entertainment.
So these things have evolved to
be replacements for vacations,
if you will, until it's much
more than just the venue
itself.
it's also sort of what there is
to do in a town and the
experience that they have and
that's really what increases
that trip from one trip to
visiting a venue, you know,
five years in a row if you will
.
Another avenue that we look
into the statistics on the
hotel side, you know, if you
look at the overall occupancy
70 percent and above is doing
excellent.
So you guys have some growth
opportunity in terms of the
accuracy as well as the adr and
that's the average daily rate.
>> those are two strong
indicators for us in terms of
you the viability of something
like this because in many
markets I shouldn't say many
but when you're closer to
larger regional markets the adr
is what could impact the
success meaning you know, if
the hotel room rate is too high
it's going to limit your family
in the visitors ability to kind
of stay there for multiple days
like four tournaments and
things like that.
>> so when we look at the
average in the occupancy we
think both are opportunities
for waukesha.
Another element was we dug a
little bit in terms of regional
audit, in terms of some of the
facilities.
A lot of these came through for
research and our primary
database at johnson consulting
as well as our discussions with
several regional and local user
groups to understand sort of
where everyone was playing and
what are the elite venues.
So effectively these would be
the venues that you would be
competing with for some of
these events.
>> these are the four really or
three I should say including
minneola and the future
improvements or proposed future
improvements.
We did sort of benchmarking
around those three segments to
kind of give a sense of where
you all would sit against some
of your key competition in the
marketplace.
As I mentioned before, I think
,you know, one of the strength
is just a pure density from the
the site itself and we'll get
into that a little bit later
and what we did a sort of a
market penetration summary for
you all to kind of see what we
think we can it'd be able to
attract and again, I think, you
know, highlighting sort of the
footprint as you could see it's
one of the smaller of the
three.
So the overall size is going to
be a limitation.
But I think through many of our
discussions as you'll see here
in some of these ballpoints we
talked with wisconsin youth
soccer association so it's the
state association really
understand sort of state wide
where things are from a demand
perspective and honed in in
particular to the waukesha
area, you know, sharing a
little bit of what the proposed
plan was with them to
understand.
You know, is this something
that could be utilized for
statewide kamps tournaments,
clinics in particular for the
younger age group so you know,
you're some of your fields
would be smaller than a fall
2011 if you will, but you're
still fully capable of hosting
fairly decent size younger
youth and amateur's are seven
via sevens on those fields.
We talked to several in
particular one in milwaukee
wave group that you know really
are looking for additional
services in the marketplace.
So I would say two or three at
the least that we talk to were
interested in some sort of I
would say a partnership or
understanding how they can be
but we would call it anchor
tenant meaning they would, you
know, sort of allocate specific
dates and schedules.
You know, one team would have
monday, wednesday, friday
certain time period because of
the limitation of supply of
surfaces in the greater
marketplace.
That's been a challenge for a
lot of these organizations and
it's been a hindrance in their
opinion to some of their growth
as well because you know,
there's only so much to to grow
with the table on the right
kind of dives in a little bit
of what we characterize as
market penetration opportunity
and this is particularly for
your market and those three
segments again on a national
average we typically see
anywhere from 30 percent on a
30 minute time ours.
Fifteen percent and seven.
And so if you look at the beige
no, we're taking effectively in
that 30 minute we're taking 30
percent of that number and
that's that number is the
taking population and applying
that towards the percent of
population that participates in
soccer and the various funds
that could be held there and
giving us a total number and
then from there we're assuming
only 30 percent that number.
So again across the board I
think you'll find a lot of our
assumptions and numbers are
fairly conservative with
intention.
You know these these things are
sort of early on when we're
involved and so there's a
there's a whole host of things
that can can can be modified
and change the direction of
that.
And so, you know, large part
based on a lot of our
discussion and research and
really diving into some of the
data that we have in-house, we
think that there's certainly a
fairly significant amount of
demand for the proposed
development.
So what that man really means
looking at this sorry you're a
little happy there.
This is the diagram on the left
to give us a little
illustration of sort of how and
the methodology of how we
arrive at these economic impact
numbers.
>> you had the venue itself.
You have folks that are coming
in here directly spending their
money.
You have the indirect and
induced in one way.
We like to categorize that and
you'll see some of these rates
for each of those areas
indirect induced an increased
those are from in-plant.
It's a nationally recognized
multiplier that produces and so
we apply that base off the
direct number that we produce
and so the way we like to
categorize it as a direct spend
is if I'm a parent and I'm
taking my children to the
sports complex, we are paying
five hundred dollars for the
tournament that weekend that is
a direct spend to the city.
If we were to go to the local
pizzeria and I buy pizzas for
the whole team that's a sort of
an indirect spend to the
community so that those dollars
at that pizza place wouldn't
happen if it weren't for that
tournament that I was in town
for.
And the induced is really the
server that now had sold
fifteen pies that day that
because there was a major
sports event in town and so
their tips are greater than
they would normally be if it
were not.
>> but for that event that
happened and so that's just a
sort of a discretionary way to
kind of explain each of those
definitions.
The next is really kind of a
high level and again really
conservative estimation of what
we think demand and events
could happen at this repropose
park including the addition of
additional fields we talked
about early on and really
looking at what the overall
year five number is that we
hone in on you'll see that
quite a bit.
Year five is what traditionally
we see on a national level to
be stabilization.
These things take a little bit
of time to get on the you know,
wisconsin youth soccer
association.
they've booked events two years
out, if you will, for their
camps and clinics and so it's
going to take time post
development for you all to land
on that.
But they do over time have a
ramp up period and that's what
you'll see across the board and
a lot of our projections
ultimately it is our projection
in previous just from a total
about roughly 17000 total
spectators and participants
when we look at that from a
event day standpoint and that
in itself accounts for, you
know, several days on the camps
and clinics that are in town
for a greater than just one day
and not just day tripping.
So again in that year five
we're looking approximately
25000 folks in that's really
we're projecting would produce
approximately 6200 room nights.
>> so again, when we look that
and we talk about additional
and ancillary potential
catalyst development, we could
see where the hotel MAY be an
opportunity for you all to seek
in the last but not least is
really sort of a summary of all
this.
So understanding kind of what
those visitors and those date
nights and room nights look
like applying our average daily
spend if you will, for lodging
and meals and and it's
incidentals we're projecting
approximately in year five an
economic impact of three point
two million which would produce
again utilizing those numbers
from a multiplier standpoint
approximately nineteen full
time jobs and the equivalent of
about 47000 in tax revenue from
those sales.
>> so again these are all
annual numbers so so we sort of
hone in on that year five.
But again, as you it's hard to
see why in year one it's
lighter and it grows and it
grows.
>> that's all indicative to the
overall demand that we're
projecting for the facility and
that I felt like it was a
really quick summary.
So please if any questions or
anything you'd like me
elaborate.
I'm here to do the right thank
you brandon.
I guess we'll certainly bring
it to the full committee to see
what questions they MAY have of
you.
>> but I guess a couple that I
have off to to start is when
when a study like this is done
in a facility is built, how are
power numbers like this
validated?
>> how do you come back after
five years and give a
presentation to the council and
say hey, we were right, we were
wrong?
>> I mean how we only when the
right no.
Well what it's a great question
what does the validation
process and something like this
look like?
>> yeah no that's a great
question.
We get that quite a bit and
more in the private financing
world sort of I guess where
your question is is sort of
what is our variance in some of
our projections and so a lot of
that is actually going back and
looking at what we had
projected and how it all
effectively had performed post
development and ultimately
we've traditionally been within
that ten to fifteen percent
variance on numbers.
And so I guess that's a long
way of saying we have
continually do go back and look
at our numbers sort of post
development if the development
actually proceeds forward, I
would say, you know, again
we're doing feasibility studies
.
We're fairly early on.
We like to call ourselves the
the tip of the development
spear.
Right.
And there's a lot of steps and
zoning and design and capital
cost have to come next.
So you know, I would say
roughly anywhere from 20 to 30
percent of these venues are
actually moving forward from a
development standpoint because
they're so early on.
>> but we do go back and
actually fact check our numbers
and I another question,
brandon.
>> so the three point two
million of economic impact
that's based upon the project
being fully built out that was
highlighted on one of the
earlier slides, is that
correct?
>> that is correct, yeah.
That's kosuga.
And then lastly the 47000
dollars in tax revenue I mean
the city doesn't the city
doesn't get a cut of the of the
of the sales tax.
>> so was that forty seven
thousand dollars is that
strictly sales tax?
That's purely yeah.
>> it's a five percent of the
state yeah.
Ok all right.
Other questions for for brandon
from the committee on the
presentation alderman lemcke,
was there anything in your
study to project property tax
growth because that's where the
city you know, revenue would
come from the increase in
property values around new
hotels, new construction,
something like that.
So as MR. Piper said, we don't
get any of sales tax revenue of
the state of wisconsin would
get that and whether complexes
in madison or eau claire,
oshkosh, they get the revenue.
>> it isn't going to change for
the state standpoint where the
pie is and waukesha is
concerned about, you know, how
is it going to revitalize our
district plus any of the
tournament money that we could
get from the parks department
that would help.
But I was just kind of looking
at the redevelopment side what
growth that's going to help the
city of waukesha property
taxes?
>> sure.
No, that's great question.
Our our whole analysis was
absent of sort of what would
happen with property tax.
Other questions for brandon
brandon.
>> thank you, joe.
I thank you.
I wanted to make sure I mean we
mentioned in terms of taxes we
do get a cut of the hotel motel
tax.
So I mean as part of the state
law we get a cut of the hotel
motel tax.
so that was mentioned briefly
the thing so if there is new
hotels built then that would be
additional revenue to the city
as well as to the convention
and visitors visitors bureau
which also helps to bring more
group folks in to.
>> thank you, kevin.
Before we at brandon go into
any other questions from the
committee, brandon, thank you.
Thank you.
I appreciate it.
Certainly up to you but you MAY
want to stick around.
Who knows?
We MAY have some other
questions later on in the
discussion but I appreciate we
appreciate coming in and
presenting your material so
thank you.
>> thank you.
Appreciate it.
Kevin, how would you like to
proceed from this point?
Well, I would just from my
perspective I'd like to get
some feedback from the
committee if this outline looks
acceptable with what we've done
or if you'd like some
additional adjustments before
you consider it for approval,
that's really where we're at.
There are there was some
questions about some cost
benefit of the snow melter.
So like that hasn't been
completed yet.
We haven't been able to do all
the data on that.
So in terms of doing the labor
costs of moving snow and that
analysis still needs to be
done.
But but we do want to try to
answer the questions that you
had and reflect some of the
changes that the committee was
discussing previously.
>> so I guess one question I
have is the you know and I know
you we remove some items and
things like that.
I guess the the million five in
capital projects at the very
bottom.
>> could you could you
highlight that a little bit
more in terms of what your
ideas are for that one point
five?
And I guess my point is and
I'll certainly leave it to the
rest of the committee is I
don't know how much in terms of
firm recommendations this
committee wants to give the
council versus kind of leaving
something rather open ended.
Yeah.
So I was hoping that maybe you
could provide a little bit more
color around that one point
five million.
>> yeah so that's exactly what
the that was intended to do in
some respects is that this is
an outline so it's like a set
in stone plan but with that one
of the discussions that was had
at the last meeting was you
know we have a skype with a
bunch of capital projects and
it's why not not issue debt for
that and use these funds to
help offset the future tax
increases that are going to be
resulting of the debt that we
have to issue.
And so between this the one
point five for capital project
we could be used for any
capital projects that we have
on the books and plan for a
road you know, a park facility
,whatever the case MAY be we
could just use this instead and
then the other one point five
for stormwater.
We have planned stormwater
projects nearly every year
every other year.
So again that would be
offsetting that debt that we'd
have to issue to do those
projects.
So you'd essentially not
borrowing for the three million
those of those capital projects
you wouldn't have to borrow for
the major equipment in the in
the snow melter and I still
can't believe that's a thing
but it's a cool thing and you
wouldn't be borrowing for the
m_nika project either.
>> so all of those would be non
debt, you know, funded projects
that would not that would help
us do the things that we want
to do without impacting the
taxpayer.
All right.
Well, what I'm going to do is
I'll bring it back to the full
committee and I have certainly
open it up to the committee for
questions on anything related
to the to the updated
spreadsheet and then I'm going
to see kind of how the
conversation goes and then we
can we can do one of two things
and again, I'm not ready to lay
this out completely that we
either can approve some of
these items like we have with
the modular vehicle barrier
system that we did recommended
that one the council and to the
org changes.
>> those are two items that we
already have recommended to
council.
So that is certainly an avenue
for us to consider this evening
is if there's items on here
that the committee feels like
it's a good idea, we're ready
to move forward and vote on
those things.
We could do that tonight and
recommend those kind piecemeal
to the council.
I said or we could ask for some
additional information and
bring it back for a third time
to the committee and vote on it
as a package.
So I just wanted to give that
to the committee as some food
for thought as to how we can
proceed tonight.
>> we do have agenda is that we
could do it either way.
>> we could do this piecemeal
and take some take some action
on some specific items so
again, just from a committee
standpoint, let's let's think
about what we're comfortable
with this evening and then I'm
going to pull it back and see
if anybody has any questions on
what's been presented in
alderman lemcke, you put your
hand up.
I think I mentioned the last
time we had spoke that I would
like she had a good portion of
the funds that we're getting
from arpa since they are tax
dollars coming from the federal
government that the city of
waukesha proportionately has to
pay back because it's all debt.
>> we're getting a share back.
>> I'd like to see some of the
debt that we are going to be
putting together.
>> for example, mindiola park
that looks like it's going
through pieces at a time which
I'm not against the capital
projects on the roads and for
example and this is just an
example of where I'm coming
from the dredging of the
saratoga lake.
Those are all things that we
have in the cfp now where I'd
like to see a good portion of
these arpa funds used so that
the federal government is
paying some waukesha tax payers
bills that the taxpayers are
then going to have to pay the
federal government so it's not
increasing the tax burden is
skinning the cat from one piece
or the other.
>> so I just don't want to see
10 million dollars of add on
and in that we have to pay the
federal government for and I'd
like to see some of it come
back now I'm in favor of the
habitat for humanity just about
everything's there and I just
want to know if like the
mindiola that we have allocated
and the storm water projects,
the capital projects if if that
amount of money three million,
four million dollars was in the
cypriote that we could allocate
to that and not have to spend
it.
>> so then we're making some
new purchases but not all the
those specifically stormwater
the capital project line and
mindiola are all in the ship
currently those are all in the
five year plan.
The that's what I mean that's
that's your that's the answer
to your question.
>> those are all in the five
year plan.
Thank you.
Other questions from the
committee what's been presented
so far?
>> all right, let's try this.
What I'm going to do is let's
start from the top of the list
because this is the second time
that we've seen a lot of these
items and I would just want to
go through one by one to make
sure that we can show our
bosses that we've thoroughly
vetted this list and talked
about it, which is important
and then if there's no
objection I'm going to kind of
treat this as kind of the
capital budget portion of our
finance discussion where we
start where I'll start asking
for some motions on some
certain items and if the
committee is comfortable with
that particular item, get a
motion, get a second, we'll
vote on it and then we'll take
this to council in kind of
perhaps some bits and pieces.
>> but I think that that that
gets this moving along.
It gets the council viewing
this and asking some additional
questions and let's let's do
that.
So I'm going to start with the
habitat for humanity project
project.
This item was presented at our
last previous meeting that a
total of a one million dollar
allocation.
>> were there any additional
questions from the committee on
this item?
>> was there a motion alderman
mcilvanney, the motion to
approve or move forward habitat
for humanity airshed project
second by alderman bartel's ok,
so just for everybody watching
at home what we're going to do
is we're going to vote on these
one by one so far so the motion
has been made to recommend to
the common council an
allocation of one million from
the rpa for the habitat for
humanity project.
We have motion and a second is
there any discussion on that?
>> and denise, we're going to
do voice votes on these so you
don't have to keep track of in
granicus.
That's all right.
Yeah, we'll just do we can do
voice votes on this.
>> that's fine.
All right.
>> so the motion we've got a
motion and a second for the
million dollar allocation
habitant and all those in
favor.
>> please raise your hand and
sign I I any opposed.
>> all right.
That item passes mindiola park
revenue generating capital for
one million dollars.
Is there a motion on that
particular item?
>> alderman lemcke I would like
to make a motion to accept the
million dollars arpa funds that
would go to the S.O.P in 2023
towards a projected project.
>> is there a second second
alderman mimic elderly?
>> I'll second that.
Ok, so we have a motion and a
second for the one million
dollars for mindiola.
Is there any further
discussion?
Alderman battelle's how many
years out will we be looking
for a completion of the park to
the plan in the in the plan we
have it spread out over I think
two years twenty twenty four
and twenty twenty five is that
correct.
Run yeah.
>> yeah twenty twenty four
twenty twenty five.
>> so that would be the full
build out of it and of course
it's a big number so that's
contingent upon you know
competing priorities but um
obviously the faster you do it
the more gets to stabilization
and you start to talk about the
types of numbers that the the
folks the consulting folks
we're talking about that brian
was talking about.
So but right now we have we
have a planned out over 24 and
25 and what was the total
estimate for the whole thing?
>> for the whole thing I think
it's seven million in the city.
Am I right in my I'm I'm
guessing I should never guess I
should go look it up.
>> ron has the sheet right in
front of them for the record,
thanksgiving in the budget
right now.
>> and again we're evaluating
the site as far as updating the
master plan, do cost estimates
because of the volatility of
the climate that we have?
>> as you all know, the total
is eight million nine hundred
and fifteen thousand.
>> that's what we have
projected through 2025 and
we're doing it in phases a lot
of inventory.
Oh, I'm sorry.
>> sorry so if during the
process this whole eight
million or so doesn't go
through what happens to the one
million dollars tonight.
>> so I mean again this is just
an outline so we would what we
would do with this particular
project is that we would update
this ship to include the arpa
funds as part of the project.
The one million dollars gets
you another full size field
completely built out and with
the success that we've had with
the one that we've done, you
know, we would generate revenue
from the one otherwise.
You know, you could do you the
whole thing you do one more you
could do half of it.
>> ok, that's I was looking for
yeah.
>> thank you is a display ad a
tad to that as I indicated in
the communication today this is
an opportunity to help defray
part of the cost of the overall
build out and get another field
in operation earlier than we
had anticipated.
So we look at this as an
excellent opportunity to not
only get another field
operational but also save save
some money or get funding from
a source outside of traditional
bonding.
And I would also add there's
some value in doing it
incrementally too because you
get to learn you get to know
what works.
You get to figure out what the
teams like and what they don't
like and things like that.
And so I mean getting it in and
getting it operational at peak
efficiency for lack of a better
description is also not a bad
thing.
Yeah, I just wanted to add I
don't think it's been mentioned
yet tonight but the arpa funds
currently need to be spent by
the end of 2024 so that the
first portion of the million if
it is spent prior to that would
be covered.
>> the arpa funds just wanted
to make that node and it
included the first time we
discussed us back on MAY 10th
that we will be ready to go.
>> this project is in the
position that we can move on it
and get moving on this project
and 23 and certainly have it
completed by twenty four to get
this additional field built.
So we're one step closer to a
complex and I think the other
thing a bit that onto brandon
indicated is it MAY not be the
biggest complex but we're
looking at high quality in turf
is what it so it's imperative
that we push for the turf
fields that will draw a crowd
guaranteed when you know you
can play they will come and we
definitely are in a position we
have a niche that we can fill
so we have thirty fields now
but we could have facility it
has five or six fields that are
high and quality that could be
used for multiuse and again if
we go to the route of building
the full sized fields you can
carve out a lot of smaller
fields on that full size so you
have a lot of flexibility.
>> you can paint temporary
lines for example if you want
to use a tournament we can get
eight fields of you eight kids
on one turf field, one full
size is to give you the scope
so you can you can run some
good sized tournaments
especially with the younger
kids, the tournaments that
require full size field play or
somewhat limited but not
certainly be relegated not
having tournaments for full
size play when you have quality
so you'll get high end quality
type tournaments that would be
attracted and that's the that's
the word that we got, you know,
from the wisconsin youth soccer
association etc. That there's a
niche there for their olympic
development program camps.
>> you in also tournaments.
So again bigger is not
necessarily always better in
lemcke I'm glad I have run and
kevin in and this is just more
of educating myself.
Um, when we talk about a major
sports complex like this that
benefits the entire city, would
this be something that impact
fees could be allocated towards
,you know, like in my
particular district it's
projected just from what I can
see coming up in the next five
years we're going to have about
500 new units.
So if we have a and if we have
an apartment complex coming on
with a hundred units, does that
mean that when they apply for
permits for that particular
apartment complex they pay 100
impact fees, one for each unit?
Where do they pay one impact
fee for the whole complex?
Well, the impact fees, jennifer
to the two.
>> yeah ok.
But it's per unit boxton per
unit.
So if we have a subdivision I'm
just going to ask the question
whoever knows can answer we
have a subdivision coming on
very down in my valley we have
fifty new condominiums going
in.
We have about 120 flats coming
on just off of highway eighteen
across from oakmont we have a
new proposed that's in the
works right now with maybe
three hundred and
twenty townhomes and fifty five
single family homes just in
those in my district alone in
the next five years we
anticipate about 500 individual
units and if I remember when we
did our impact fee raise four
for AUGUST the parks is going
to get about twenty two hundred
dollars on each one of those
units that's about a million
two hundred and fifty thousand
dollars of revenue that the
city could use.
>> I'm thinking towards
mindiola park because in my
district we have enough little
neighborhood parks with
meadowbrook howell oaks and you
know the oliver sports and all
of that.
I don't think a need for
another park needs to going in
there.
But I'm thinking, you know,
that I understand MR. Bartlet's
fee fear as is mine.
I don't want to spend six
million dollars of the
taxpayer's money towards
mindiola park over the next
five years.
But if it can come from the
people who are moving in buying
that lot or moving into that
apartment complex from
something like that, then if
that fund can be used there
again it's a way of not having
the taxpayers foot the bill for
mindiola and and making making
the project can be a draw for
redevelopment and such.
So if we earmarked those impact
fees just in my district I know
there's a lot more and it would
soften that blow of having to
spend six million dollars on
mindiola.
We got a million from the arpa
,we got a million in two fifty
and impact fees from my
district.
>> you know it has a funding
source as long as we didn't
have to invest in new park
because I think my personal
opinion is waukesha is very
generous with their park system
and and you know, if we can
fund it without having to
increase the taxes that the
people pay, I'm in favor of the
majority of it.
So if if that would be a way of
obtaining spending the money so
you so you know where the money
is going to have to come from
or you're going to have to be
spent rather than proposing a
new park or a new pool or a or
something like that then I'd be
much more in favor of voting
for this.
That looks like it's coming
anyway but there we go.
That's my thoughts.
I can comment on it if you like
me to.
Yes, definitely impact fees was
one of the things that was
factored in in the study for
minneola because it is a
community asset, a community
park and so part of our funding
strategy is obviously to look
for alternative revenue sources
which we qualify impact fees as
as that you know, nontax based
and and that's why we got
excited about this opportunity.
Arpa there's a that's one that
we didn't count on, you know,
three or four years ago
certainly.
And to try to find ways to stay
out of using geo bonding or
things of that that type of
mechanism.
>> so impact fees is part of
the mix.
We haven't quite determine how
much impact fee the use for
that but we'll certainly have
more of that detail for you as
we get through the process.
>> you know we have JULY one is
our self-imposed deadline that
cfp submitted and sort of
better defined it but that was
factored in that there would be
a piece of the puzzle would
come from impact fees.
>> how much that hasn't been
determined yet.
And as you indicated in lemcke
that those numbers have changed
all too.
So that changes that landscape,
MR. Laner.
>> yeah, just to add on to that
the way the impact fee
ordinances work is that they
have to be spent either in the
neighborhood where they are
generated from or on a
community park facility and we
might have to look at our
ordinance to make sure that
we're eligible to do that.
I think we are already but
that's an adjustment that we
can make and so you can use
them for either area and then
there's also a time limit with
impact fees you have to spend
them within seven years on a
new item.
You can't spend them on
maintenance you can't spend
them on.
You have to build something new
with them.
So that's how that's how it
works so you can use them
locally in the specified area
or you spend them on a
community facility.
>> just one other thing to add
on to kevin's comment is that
the keep in mind minneola park
is largely undeveloped.
that's why it does that's one
of the qualifiers for impact
fees.
>> so a one one field alone as
you know as we've discussed is
over a million dollars a full
sized field.
>> so we have undeveloped
largely undeveloped community
park and that typically shines
really well for impact fee use
for community wide use.
So it was part of our strategy
when we elton john cameron, et
cetera on identifying all the
different parks, that big lawn
chart that is part of the study
minneola is part of the mix all
romanian run refresh my memory
.
We have an existing turf field
at mindiola right now.
>> correct.
And that was put in when I was
there the tail the
twenty twenty we opened in 2021
last year.
>> ok, can you give me a
ballpark if you know of roughly
what kind of revenue that field
has generated in on an annual
basis?
>> well we have we have one
full season on our built but
the field is to give you an
idea prior to the turf field
and our total revenue was nine
hundred and twenty seven
dollars for in the old park
with the grass fields in
twenty twenty one rentals the
loan was over thirty eight
thousand so we went from nine
some dollars to thirty eight
thousand plus we were able to
move our program over an entire
youth program utilizes the turf
field now for games and that
program was expanded to almost
3500 kids in that program being
brought in in 2001.
>> edita and so conservatively
the turf field attributes one
hundred and twenty six thousand
its first year and the numbers
are looking very good right now
we're projecting to be about
one hundred seventy five
thousand four for this year.
We haven't seen what's going to
happen in the fall season yet
but spring was very good.
>> thanks, ron.
Those are good numbers and ron
just also to remind the
committee that when the first
part when the first field went
in there was a special revenue
fund that was created to
capture the income that was
derived off of that off of that
field.
>> correct.
>> that's all the funds in the
general fund.
>> but I thought there was I
thought there was something
specific that the city created
to capture the revenue from
that field to recoup some of
the operating costs and perhaps
some of the replacement in the
future for that project as we
did to turn fields one time
would frame baseball.
We did create a turf
replacement fund or it's a
maintenance one can be used for
more turf replacement but that
cost shared with carroll
university in the city and it's
ten thousand dollars a year
from carol and 10000 from
proceeds that we derive from
frame baseball goes into that
fund.
>> so there wasn't there wasn't
something similar done with
mindiola not at this time but I
think that's something we would
look at certainly for you know,
the bigger picture the bigger
project is to have I call it a
turf replacement fund.
>> we made a little broader
than that.
You know, maintenance.
But the idea that primarily
would help you know, the free
again cost down the road for
turf replacement because you
know, one of the one of the
things that we've talked about
I mean you and I and you and I
and kevin have talked about the
concern that I have is just the
ability for the city to
maintain the park
infrastructure.
We have given levy limits and
the limitations on the
operating budget.
I mean that it's a big topic
but that's been my overarching
concern with with the parks
that we've had.
>> I guess my question for this
is is if if we have the first
one and the second one gets
approved, you know, from a
standpoint of just maintaining
it, I mean are you are you
comfortable that we've got the
room within the operating
budget within your operating
budget to maintain these assets
and or does it make sense to
start setting up specific funds
for these larger assets to make
sure that, you know, repairing
bleachers and repairing
bathrooms and repairing the
field don't pull away from the
other funds that you're going
to need to maintain a you know,
to maintain the park shelter at
horeb for you know, part one.
Yes, we're very confident that
our experience turf field is
it's enable us to reprogram a
chunk of our maintenance
activities to other facilities
in parks because the turf no
longer we have to mow no long
trimming no longer we control
fertilization, no longer
irrigation.
So that's a pretty hefty list
that now no longer has to be
done and we can redirect those
hours and manpower to other
areas in the city.
So it's been a maintenance
benefit for us and that's
that's why we were very bullish
I guess is the term on turf
fields.
We're just seen the impact of
ability and on the revenue side
and rentals but we also had a
very favorable response on the
maintenance side and so there
is some grooming involved but
other than that replenish some
of the infill material, there's
a relatively simple machine
that does that and then once a
year we bring in a service to
do a or complete reconditioning
of the field in the school
district.
Does does the same with their
three stadium fields and there
we look to piggyback with the
school district working with
that.
>> but overall the cost man
hours is way down and we
anticipate that that's the way
to go.
Try to avoid, you know, the
grass fields and in the upper
midwest this spring as if there
was ever an indicator this
spring is a good one about a
very, very difficult to get
into games and the pressure of
especially a varsity level or
high school level type play
very difficult but with her
fields playing baseball for
example, was a savior in many
respects.
>> we're getting games when no
one else was and that makes all
the difference and that's the
best part from a revenue side
is word of mouth.
If people have excellent
experiences they tell others
and then they come back other
other questions or discussion
on the mindiola item from the
committee I'm going to I'm
going to be a vote on mindiola
.
I just I just cannot I just
can't bring myself to support
it.
I just I'm worried about kind
of the overall size of the
project and I've not been of
this isn't anything new.
>> I've not been a big
proponent of it in the in the
five year plan.
But if the item is passed
tonight, I want the committee
to know that this my intention
is for this to go to the
council is a package and I
don't want to get into picking
this apart council if the
council wants to do that,
great.
>> but I do feel that this
needs to go to the go to the
full council as a package even
if there are one or two
dissenting votes on a
particular item as we go
through it.
And if we get into other items
and there's other dissenting
votes we all have every right
as a member of fifteen to pull
that item out and talk about it
additionally at council.
>> but I wanted to be very
clear as to why I was going to
be a no vote on this particular
item at finance but also
stressed kind of how I envision
this going to the council for
further consideration.
>> so all those in favor of the
mindiola project please sign it
by saying I I all no byone know
so that item does pass four to
one.
Ron thank you.
Brandon, thank you for coming
in this evening.
Appreciate the committee.
>> appreciate your time and
efforts.
I want to jump down because I
know MR. Lainer has a has a
commitment that he has to go to
so I wanted to kind of jump
down to capital projects that
one point five dollars million
and offer a recommendation to
the committee to see if there
would be some openness to
consider putting in some of
that dredging into this
particular item.
So I would hold off on that
because there's a lot there.
So we have a study that says
how much it's going to cost to
dredge the saratoga lake.
>> but we are exploring
different alternatives with the
dnr and other things and so I
would not advise to the
dedicate money that project
right now until we fully
explored all of those options.
>> that's just my suggestion
for you.
That's gavin.
>> we're here to take your
input so that's fair.
Ok, all right.
>> so I'll move back up to the
top of the list.
The the we energy's led
conversion for three hundred
eighty thousand dollars.
Was there any further comments
or discussion on that item?
>> I'll make a motion to
approve that item as presented.
>> is there a second boils a
tie.
Alderman mannion has the second
so we have a motion and a
second on the we energies led
conversion all those in favor
sign I I and you want to post
all rights that that's been
allocated the city portion of
the led conversion for 511
thousand dollars.
>> any further discussion on
that item?
I'll entertain a motion
alderman mcilvanney motion to
approve and move forward.
City led the conversion as part
of funds there are second
second by alderman mannion any
further discussion?
All right.
All those in favor sinai high
that item is approved.
The snow melter is is there a
alderman lemcke I would like to
defer that one until we get the
the economic impact and labor
studies done.
If we haven't already.
>> thank you.
Any objection to I I I have
some general briefing
information.
>> it's not a full a full study
but comparing the fuel costs to
melting the snow which is at
your question was the fuel
costs of just running trucks
back and forth.
The fuel costs alone are
approximately equal.
>> there are a little bit
cheaper to run the trucks but
once you throw in the cost of
maintenance and wear and tear
on the trucks that puts it over
the cost of the fuel for
running the the the equipment
that doesn't look at any of the
costs for man hours driving
trucks back and forth and the
man hours to run the equipment.
>> but you look at the man
hours to melt the snow with the
equipment it's less than
running ten trucks back and
forth all day.
So that's generally speaking if
you want more detailed
information we can prepare that
as well.
>> I alex, my sense from the
committee is that I think we
were looking for a I mean we
appreciate the information this
evening but my sense from the
committee on this was we were
probably looking for a little
bit more yeah.
>> what averaged rawat's you
know, back and forth and that
sort of thing that's just taken
into general numbers.
I just wanted throw that out
there if you know I appreciate
it.
>> so I think if there's no
objection from committee, I
think it my sense is that we're
going to have a little bit of
wiggle room as we finish out
the ten point eight.
>> one last thing if in
particular alderman lemcke
maybe some education as to why
we can't just put this on a
grass field and let that melt
by itself that you know, they
said you can't do that.
And I said well wait a minute,
if it's in the street, why
can't it melt but it can't melt
on grass in a pile.
>> so I just ma education on
why that's not allowed.
>> thank you.
Sure we can get that for you
too.
It has a lot to do with the nra
and just think about the amount
of trucks driving in over grass
and things like that.
You'd be a big a big mudhole to
begin with right away but yeah.
>> so the snow melters not a
snow it's just a not right now
but very good.
That's my one.
It's my one joke of the year at
the finance committee.
>> they appreciate that.
So we're going to we're going
to we'll put the snow melter on
hold and we'll have kevin work
with staff bring that back at a
future finance committee
meeting as we as we kind of
round out arpa, the central
city storefront activists
activate activation for the
800000 dollars there motion on
that item.
>> alderman lemcke, I'd like to
make them a question, you know,
a statement as to how I feel
about it before I vote.
Thank you.
>> note we can we can take a
half step back.
Rick the floor is yours.
So I think it's a good idea to
offer storefronts help on
upgrading for sprinklers.
>> it makes the occupants of
the building safer.
So it's a public safety as well
as it is a increase in value of
the property.
For example, if they if the
property sells with sprinkler
versus no sprinklers it's going
to sell for more.
So therefore the property tax
is going to be greater.
>> I don't like the idea of for
example, if a sprinkler system
costs eighty thousand dollars
making a grant to the person
who is going to receive the
benefit.
>> in other words the store
owner but I wouldn't mind a low
interest loan with a five to
seven year payback and maybe
some grant money maybe 10 15
percent because I want the
funds to keep coming back, you
know, but I wouldn't be in
favor of saying here's one
hundred thousand dollars to do
your sprinkler.
>> I could say here's ten
thousand dollars to do your
sprinkler in an eighty thousand
dollar loan over five years at
very low maybe one percent
interest just to get it paid
back.
So I would be in favor of
something like that and I like
the fact that they raised the
amount of the central city
store storefront to make more
money available for the
program.
>> so that's just my thoughts.
Thank you.
I guess kevin, I'll turn it to
you.
Is there I mean is this is this
particular item that the staff
would like a little bit more
time on to kind of.
>> well, I can I can give you
the detail that we have today
and you you mean if you approve
it as part of the outline we
can flesh out the details of
the program so as we as it's
currently constructed and
jennifer can help me if I mess
up any of the details is that
we have it as a very low
interest.
i think it's one percent loan
program revolving loan program.
>> and so the idea is is that
you give people the opportunity
to improve their their
commercial space at a very low
rate lower than I am able to
get from any bank or anywhere
else and then you're able to
pay back to us over time and
then that regenerates and so
it's revolving so we're able to
reinsert money back into, you
know, the central city to keep
that money going.
No objection to doing a part
grant, you know, helping folks
out doing that.
We were just how we construct
the program.
But the idea was is to keep
that money coming back and
having a little bit of earnings
so we could keep reinvesting in
it.
>> so that's the way the way we
have the program set up as it
was proposed is a revolving
grant program with like a one
percent rate that would help
keep regenerating.
>> and there are there are
nuances to how we structure
that we can you know, we can do
a bunch of different ways when
we develop the actual program
documents can remind you remind
me that was that the who was
what body was going to approve
those was not going to be done
by redevelopment redevelopment
authority would approve the
would approve the loan at the
application.
>> yeah and if there was a
grant component as well that's
what we would that's what we do
on one it'd be I mean like if
you we did the the covid stuff
you know we had a little loan
committee that did that that
worked out pretty well but we
had the existing redevelopment
authority it seemed like a good
match for that and they already
do some of that stuff already
with some of the facade grants
and things that we have.
Yeah, I'm I'm not you know, I'm
not completely against the idea
of having some of this be a
grant.
I think that that is something
that we could be open to.
But I also like the loan
program idea because it does to
your point kind of regenerate
funds that can loaned out.
I guess my question for the
committee is are we comfortable
approving this and kind of
letting redevelopment authority
work out the details?
I'm comfortable with that
because I've I have experience
with redevelopment authority
and and they have experience
with these particular programs.
But I just wanted that sense
from the committee this
evening.
So alderman battelle's I'm
comfortable with the grant and
the the loan portion also have
the if we could pass that on to
them, I don't think that we
needed to say that right now.
So the one question I had those
kevin went to 800000.
What was the 800000?
The rationale behind that?
I mean is it a number of
storefronts that have expressed
interest in the past or no.
>> I mean literally it was just
trying to make the numbers work
and reflect you guys had had
talked about I'm trying to put
more money into it and I think
that that is a good idea
especially with the most recent
estimates that folks are
getting.
You know, so you heard them
firsthand what's going on in
the marketplace and so if
you're you know, we have two
potential applicants here.
I heard up to three hundred
thousand dollars worth of loans
and grants going out the door
for two stores.
>> so that was just as great
divvying up the numbers that's
where I was able to get to was
eight hundred thousand ok,
because I was on the same
thought as you when hearing the
dollars that were we're seeing
here for some of these quotes
and I was going to take the
deferred item of the snow
melter and put that into 800000
but because I would think the
downtown needs need some help
and if we have the money we
should do it and that's why I
really like the idea of the
loan and and the grant and
redevelopment authority I think
can run with this.
Thanks.
Ok, so I guess before I
entertain emotion I'll just
going to ask the committee is
there any objection from the
committee that if this item is
passed that we allocate the or
we recommend the council the
allocation of the 800 thousand
dollars and we let the
redevelopment authority sort
out the difference between a
grant and the loan program?
Is that fair?
Alderman lemke?
>> one of the reasons I
outlined my parameters, you
know, like a one percent loan
and either a ten or fifteen
percent grant is so that we can
make it available to the most
amount of people and as the
chair of the redevelopment at
least this year, I wanted to
let the committee here know
what my thinking was so that
the rda could that's where I'm
coming from, you know, I mean I
don't think I would do a zero
percent interest and I don't
think I'd be in favor of any
more than a fifteen percent
grant because it is improving
the property value and the
owner of the property
theoretically when they sell
the building would be able to
get that back not fully but a
good portion of it in increased
value.
So but I want to make it an
encouragement to to get the
upgrades done for the public
safety.
Thank ok.
So we don't have a motion yet.
Alderman mannion, if the
devil's in the details as they
say and I would feel more
comfortable voting on this item
if we actually knew what the
redevelopment authority's
decision would be or how this
was actually going to be
structured.
>> I'm kind of on board with
what rick just said and what
alderman lemcke just said with,
you know, a small amount
possibly as a grant and a low
interest loan for the rest.
I think my preference would
actually be to see it stay as a
loan program completely.
But I could live with, you
know, a small grant program but
there's no guarantee that just
because the CHAIRMAN Of the
redevelopment authority is in
favor of that that that's
actually what the redevelopment
authority is going to go with
and that's my that would be my
concern and my reservation and
voting voting for this and
saying let's just turn it over
to them to manage any other so
I guess I want to I want to
take again taken of a half step
back, alderman bartel's floated
the idea about the spot in the
snow melter.
I'm going to ask the committee
from kind of a is that
something that we would
consider putting into that or
are we still inclined to wait
to get some additional
information on the snow melter
?
>> and I bear with me a little
bit, folks.
>> I mean this is kind of
uncharted territory as we hand
out these funds.
>> so I'm just kind of breaking
from my normal convention and
how I do this type of thing.
>> but I just want to try to
get some consensus.
>> alderman lemcke, at this
point I'm not in favor of the
storm shelter at all using arpa
dollars I wouldn't be adverse
to putting that dollar amount
into the storefront activation
because that's public safety.
We're all the public who visit
a place downtown for example, a
restaurant or you know, I go
into nice ash I'm not promoting
them but I go into their
basement, ok, and play cards
down here every once in a while
I make a tremendous cost to
make that it's all sprinklered
underneath there and I would
not feel comfortable going into
the basement of a downtown
establishment or even some of
the places without sprinklers.
So I feel confident in public
safety.
They're having the sprinklers
and I and I'm I'm in courage in
the city to try to help in a
way of encouraging it.
You can't force them unless
they're put in a new business
in.
So I wouldn't be adverse to to
making it in and again with the
rda I think that every member
of the rda would would keep the
grant portion you know in the
ten to fifteen percent because
the only ones that we really
approve of anything different
in grants is somebody who is
below the poverty level to to
increase their house.
>> everything else is kind of a
payback type of a situation.
>> thank you.
Ok, for any other discussion on
this I guess one question I
would have is and jennifer
kevin maybe put you on the spot
a little bit to alderman and
point.
I mean what you know is there
kind of a is there some math
that exists now in terms of
what you know, what should be
given out as a grant versus a
loan or is that something that
the that the rda potentially us
would have to would have to
figure out or do you have some
type of a kind of a recommend
kind of a high level
recommendation keep the
conversation moving along.
>> I don't have a
recommendation tonight but we
can certainly hold a special
redevelopment authority meeting
this month to make sure that we
get a program vetted and
approved so that we can start
taking applications fairly
quickly and so we want to get
back together and think about
that a little bit before I make
a recommendation.
>> but um, we're open to doing
that so it moves along quickly.
>> ok, alderman bartles, if I
could get the committee to
agree to move the uh the
deferred snow melter into this
800000 I am fine with whatever
the committee decides as far as
having the finance committee
decides a redevelopment that's
not a showstopper for me.
I'd rather get more money into
this.
>> um, so whatever that emotion
people that that is emotion.
>> so your motion is to combine
the snow melter and the in with
the central city storefront
activities activision for a
million for a total of one
million 250.
>> it's my math right.
Denise ok.
>> yes, that's my motion.
All right.
Is there a second to that
motion on my elderly second
sentence second that snow is
snow melter.
>> so we have and we have a
motion in a second to increase
the central city storefront
activation to one point
twenty five million dollars and
then in a sense removing the
snow melter from consideration.
I'm going to support that too.
I've been I mean, alex, I know
you're not probably married to
the snow melter, but I was kind
of on the on the fence a little
bit with this item as well.
>> and I agree with the
consensus of the committee that
i think that this would
probably a little bit of a
better use of funds.
>> MISS Andrews, you had a
comment just one clarification
before you voted can just make
it clear if the program is
going to the final decision on
the program details is with
redevelopment authority or if
that needs to come back to
finance for council just so we
know the process well, I'll
take it back to the to the
maker in the second or in terms
of what what your what your
gentleman's preference is.
So let's let's do this because
I think I think there's some
there's some merit to having
the finance committee being
able to report to council kind
of how these dollars are being
allocated.
>> so if it's if we're
comfortable with the committee
as we can, we can make a motion
to approve or to allocate the
one point twenty five dollars
million ask the redevelopment
authority to have a meeting to
kind of shake out the details
and I guess this is the part
where I want to get some
consensus and have perhaps
jennifer or rick come back to
the finance committee with more
of a matter of report around
that item or does the finance
committee want to approve what
the redevelopment authority did
?
My sense is that we've given
the redevelopment we've given
jennifer and brick enough
direction in terms of what the
finance committee is thinking
that I'd like to give them a
little bit of latitude to make
a portion of it a grant program
and then report back to the
finance committee.
But I'm open to what what the
committee's thoughts are on
that.
>> alderman lemcke I would
think that give the authority
to come up with something at
the redevelopment and then
we'll bring it back to finance
for the approval of the final
plan once the plan is out
there.
I don't want to see the finance
company that's the finance
department committee go through
each individual application.
We don't want that.
But I'm fine with now we have
eight hundred one million two
hundred and fifty thousand
dollars of a chunk and then
we'll come up with a program
subject to finance companies
approval of that program and
then once you give approval and
an agreement done on how that
money is going to be allocated
then we can go with the program
like we do for, you know, all
our other programs that we have
.
So yeah.
Kevin, I'm sorry.
I don't I don't want to be a
bureaucrat but I'm going to be
a bureaucrat for a second.
>> I would I what I would
recommend just have the council
approve the rda program because
technically finance committee
doesn't have any authority over
what already does and if
there's any sort of dispute
that's how it's going to end up
there anyway.
>> a nominal idea.
>> right.
So why don't you just have the
council approve the rta program
not the not the day to day
operations of it but what they
come up with.
>> all right.
So the motion the motion before
the finance committee that is
to allocate one million two
hundred and fifty thousand
dollars of arpa dollars towards
the storefront activation and
asked the redevelopment
authority to create a program
that will be done approved by
council.
>> everybody on the everybody
understand the motion.
>> all right.
Let's do a voice vote all those
in favor sign I I opposed.
>> all right.
That passes unanimously.
Kevin, thank you.
>> joel can I just get who is
the second year on that frank
all right.
Good discussion, folks.
Thank you.
Kevin, thank you for that
thought.
>> that'll bring us to project
innovate in the amount of 750
or 750000.
>> I'll make a motion to
approve a second on that one
second by alderman lempke.
Is there any discussion on that
item?
All right.
All those in favor sign I I
anyone opposed that item passes
five to nothing.
>> the police department
organizational changes have
been approved so we'll move on
to the behavioral health
responder partnership in the
amount of four hundred five
hundred and thirty five
thousand dollars.
Is there a motion on that item?
alderman lemcke make the motion
for five hundred thirty five
second by alderman mac elderly
we ok brad oh I make a motion
to approve the behavioral
health responder partnership of
five hundred and thirty five
thousand dollars using our
monies for a year 2022 three
and four I second of motion in
a second on the behavioral
health partnership any further
discussion.
All right all those in favor
saini I anyone opposed that
item passes.
>> next up is the two hundred
thousand dollars of support for
the waukesha housing authority.
>> I'll make a motion to
approve is there a second
second by alderman lemcke any
further discussion on this item
?
Right all those in favor sign I
I and want to post all right.
>> that item passes and I will
pause for anybody watching at
home the reason that we're
moving rather quickly is these
items have been before the
finance committee one day not
one the two time.
So please don't think that
we're moving quickly.
These items have been pretty
thoroughly vetted at a previous
meeting next up is the
community access ahead for
85000?
>> is there a motion on miguel
elderly motion to approve the
80s for community presence?
Is there a second second by
alderman battelle's so we have
a motion and a second on the
community access program.
>> any further discussion or
questions from the committee?
All right.
all those in favor sign I I
anyone opposed that item passes
moving on to the peer to peer
drug overdose counseling for
fifteen thousand dollars.
>> is there a motion all in
elderly motion to approve the
peer-to-peer drug overdose
counseling?
Is there a second second by
alderman lemcke?
Any further discussion or
questions on this item?
All right.
All those in favor sign I I and
you want to post all right.
>> that item passes moves along
to the fire department special
services vehicle for the amount
of one hundred and sixteen
thousand dollars.
>> is there a motion on this
item?
Alderman lemcke that was the tv
that can be used at various
different special events.
I make a motion to approve the
fire department special
services utd all right.
Is there a second second by
alderman battelle's any further
discussion?
We have a motion and a second
any further discussion on this
item and all the person albon
slavitt if you have any
comments or questions, just
throw your hand up.
I'll call on you.
All right.
We have a motion and a second
all those in favor sign I I and
you want to post all right.
>> that item passes the modular
vehicle barrier system has
already been approved and used
in our most recent memorial day
parade that moves us along to
the affordable housing fund for
five hundred thousand dollars.
is there a motion on this item
?
>> alderman lemcke?
I'd like to approve the
affordable housing fund
increase of 500000 dollars
using R.P.M. Funds.
>> is there a second second by
alderman elderly any further
discussion on this item?
All right.
All those in favor sign I I and
you want to post all right.
>> that item passes as well.
>> and that brings us to our
final two this evening.
The last one is the storm water
projects and the amount of one
point five dollars million.
>> I'll make a motion to
approve.
Is there a second second by
alderman lemcke?
>> any further discussion or
questions on this item?
>> all right.
All those in favor sign I I and
you want to post all right.
>> that item pass and last but
not least the capital projects
item four items I should say
for one point five million.
>> is there a motion on this
item?
I'll make a motion to approve.
Is there a second second by
alderman mc elderly any further
discussion on this item?
>> alderman bartel's so is this
because we kind of discussed
this and it was a no go on
dredging?
Is this kind of we use it for
anything that comes up in the
yeah.
>> serape?
Yeah yeah.
We'd find the right project at
and put it towards that towards
that project.
so road project it'll be
identified in mississippi you
know arpa funds for capital ok
so if there's something for
police or fire or something
like that we could probably put
it toward yeah I as long as the
capital it was qualified as a
capital project so something
that we would use this instead
of borrowing for it would be to
go right and kevin that would
be I mean you developed a
capital budget so the use of
these dollars would be at your
discretion subject to approval
by the by the committee at
fair.
Yeah, exactly.
And we'll have it you know,
just like in when you have the
summary sheet for any capital
project and you see the sources
of funding, you know this
source for most big ones are
going to be ten year debt.
Right?
So instead of having ten year
debt it'll be arpa funds, you
know, one point five and we
might split it up between
several projects but probably
it's going to cover a portion
of one of our bigger projects
that we're going to do next
year.
>> ok, martell's when I was
only asking because I just I
don't want to go to tennis
courts or pickleball or
something like that.
It should go toward something
for yeah I think idir yeah I
got you.
I think the direction you're
getting from the committee
kevin is that we'd like to see
it more around kind of a
broader infrastructure project
I gottschalk's yeah i
understand.
All right very good.
We have a motion and a second
on that item.
>> is there any further
discussion?
All right.
All those in favor sign I I
anyone opposed that item passes
all right gentlemen, I
appreciate the very thorough
discussion this evening on
these arpa dollars.
I know we owe it to all of our
bosses to make sure that we've
vetted these items and I know I
can confidently telling my
bosses that we certainly have.
So I appreciate the time
tonight.
Kevin and staff and the
directors that are here.
>> I appreciate your time in
this item as well.
>> anything inclosing on arpey,
MR. Laner?
>> no.
But as you can tell, I have a
guest who's going to be up past
your bedtime so and I have to
go pick up some other kids and
get my wife at the airport.
I'll be leaving and leaving the
carry over discussion to denise
and have a good evening.
>> thank you.
Great.
Thank you, kevin.
We'll start go back to the
start of the start of the
agenda and that is item number
four which is approval of
minutes for the 10th of MAY or
any changes to those minutes
from the committee.
All right.
Those minutes are approved
through unanimous consent.
We'll move into the balance of
our business items for this
evening.
Item number five a is a review
and act on receiving grant
funds from the united way in
the amount of nineteen thousand
three hundred eighty three
dollars for the waukesha police
department.
Immediate emergency shelter
program chief goehring in the
department is looking to
receive we already received
funding grant funding for
nineteen thousand three hundred
eighty three dollars for the
immediate emergency shelter
program.
Just briefly what the program
is answering your questions if
you have any is it's another
tool in the toolbox where we
can funding for those
individuals that immediate
needs shelter where they
normally don't have the means
to do so.
So for example, domestic
violence we only get into
immediate shelter, get them
into a hotel for that evening
so we can get set them up with
the woman center some other
facilities that can help them
and a longer care program in
the future.
>> other situations would be
individuals that might be
homeless and we put them in a
shelter for that are the whole
town for that evening.
But with a long term plan of
getting them either to a place
for where they're going to get
help, we work in locating
family or things of that nature
to get them out of that weather
is very cold weather where
they're not going to be harmed
by by the weather.
There's no one second here now
there's very strict rules of
engagement with this.
For example, we can't have
people that try to repeat
offender with with the funding
so people have warrants
obviously they have to go right
to jail.
They would not be able to use
it.
Repeat offenders would be
vetted.
But again, having that funding
,being able to take them, we
remove them from a place of
harm, get them into a hotel for
the evening and then work in
with the facilities are closed
during those hours where
they're not operating in most
of the shelters in treatment
facilities for people that are
either substance abuse, mental
health or economic usually
during business hours this is
going to meet those that
vacancy when business hours and
that when they're not operating
.
>> so any questions regarding
that?
Yes, sir.
Alderman lepke.
Thank you, chief.
This wouldn't be a situa and I
I am compassionate for the
homeless but this wouldn't be
for an example a zero degree
day round up all the homeless
and put them in a hotel
overnight.
>> it would be a one on one and
again, you know, for example,
not taking someone who has been
homeless three hundred and
sixty three days a year and put
them in a shelter for one night
where it's not going to solve
their situation.
The immediate purpose are the
the main purpose of this is
with the intent.
We already have a plan in place
to get them into a facility for
future.
There's some frequent there's
some individuals let me
rephrase I say this are some
individuals that do not want
any type of treatment.
>> right.
That that are very happy living
out there homeless.
>> those are different.
These are situations where like
I said maybe domestic
situation.
Ah, or a person who might be
homeless says I want shelter
and want to get into a
facility.
I want to get help.
That's when we purpose and use
this funding for that.
But again, there's very strict
guidelines and you have to meet
all the guidelines and they
have to sign document
accordingly and we track all
that data for example maybe my
house burned down at eleven
o'clock at night and I don't
have anywhere to go.
>> that's a great example.
Oh and I appreciate you said
that because that's another
great example of where a family
would be in need like a fire is
a great example where we know
that family or where families
15 hours away to come out to
support we'll put them in a
hotel for the evening and get
them with their family so they
can move forward.
>> thank you.
>> but there their questions on
the side I'm I'll make a
motion.
>> oh, I'm sorry, alicia.
>> I just wanted to make sure
that I spoke in favor of this
house burning down.
>> yes.
There are other things that can
happen in the middle of the
night and I know that a lot of
people that were in my building
did take advantage of that
hotel in one of the things that
a lot of people don't consider
is that when do when things do
happen in the middle of the
night, that's not all of it
necessarily.
>> it did take a couple of days
for things to get set up where
people could actually go
somewhere and sometimes that is
what's going on and so I think
that this sort of allows for
that little bit of leeway while
the logistics get worked out
whether that's family coming
from a distance or a shelter
situation getting set up those
those longer term plans so that
that kind of fixes that
immediate needs.
>> so I don't I definitely want
to say that I'm in favor of
this very good.
I'll make a motion to accept
the grant from the united way
in the amount of nineteen
thousand three hundred eighty
three dollars and with a second
I'll speak very briefly to it
second by second.
Great.
I just for for the sake of the
committee and the public that
might be watching the issue of
homelessness is one that I am
very close to as well.
>> I mean I'm serving a more
than one board around waukesha
county that is that is devoted
to to ending homelessness in
waukesha county and I really
view this this particular grant
program as something that's
going to augment a lot of
existing services.
We have added shelter capacity
in the city and I would like to
see additional shelter capacity
are added around the county.
>> that's a conversation for a
different day.
>> but to the chief's point,
there are times when the
shelters that we have in town
are full.
There are times when to the
chief's point that the
individuals that man these
shelters don't have the ability
to take on additional folks at
2:00 in the morning because
they're they're stretched their
their staff is stretched to the
point where they're managing
the existing shelter staff and
they just don't have the
capacity to add somebody at in
the middle of the night.
I also like what the chief
mentioned in that this is this
is not a program that is an
end.
This is a gateway to getting
these individuals that want
case management and some
direction to become homed
instead of homeless as putting
them on that particular path
versus I think to some of our
other questions tonight about
just, you know, perpetually
housing someone in the middle
of winter so you know, there
are a lot of different
organizations in the city that
are trying to take, you know,
bites out of this very big
problem.
And I really do view this as
another another bite out of
this particular problem.
and I know through my
experience with not only the
council but some of my other
work in town that the that the
police department is a very
good relationship with the
organizations that are also
taking bites out of this
problem.
>> so it's a long winded way of
saying that that I support this
but it's also a way of me going
on the record and saying that
there are organizations in town
that are doing very good work
around this.
There are shelters in town that
are doing very good work around
housing people and this is
simply a way for us to add to
that capacity.
>> so thank you.
Any further discussion on this
item?
>> all right, denise, I think
we can go back to granicus now
so speaking of which, joe, I
think we can go back to
granicus now when it appears on
your screen please vote that
item passes unanimously.
>> gentlemen, thank you.
Thank you very much.
>> it looks like you're up
again so we'll move item to
item number five b which is
review and act on a pilot
testing for the flock license
plate reader cameras in the
city of waukesha chief.
>> yes, thank you very much.
So what we'd like to do is
pilot a 60 day program with
flac.
>> it's not like an optical
camera.
It is a license plate reader
camera and we'd like to do in
the six day period has put the
key locations in the city
specifically thirty near
businesses and locations where
people come in to city out of
the city.
And what's the purpose of these
cameras?
Well is basically where the
cameras are not so flack will
store the data for thirty days
and the 31st date automatically
disappears.
>> the only way that the person
can access that data is if
there's a nexus to crime.
What we want to do those
cameras is multiple things.
The license plate reader
cameras is retail thefts in the
city.
>> a lot of our stolen autos
are coming from the east of our
city into our city handles like
license plate reader cameras
actually alert our officers as
to vehicles coming into our
city.
>> we have the major key points
in our city have those cameras
that in itself is a safety
issue for the public and
officers because if we can
engage with a perpetrator in a
stolen car at the outskirts of
the city before they get
downtown, that is a win for us
other things that the cameras
do is they have artificial
intelligence where we can go to
a business for example, car
that's a business that sells
cars and they have katic
inverters are stolen.
They can actually have sensors
.
I can tell when the car is the
catholic voters being cut out
of the vehicle.
I'll turn the camera towards
where the incident is occurring
and automatically alert the
police that that's occurring.
Um, and would be for possible
force multiplier for other
things.
We want to get our wal-mart's
our targets, our home depot,
the hearts in the cities to
purchase these cameras to be a
force multiplier in curbing
these organized retail theft
groups that come into the city
and steal thousands of dollars
that these businesses write off
but impacts multiple businesses
and our city in that
information that intelligence
that data coming from license
plate readers cameras before
multiplier in reducing and
mitigating people coming to our
city to commit retail thefts at
those locations.
>> alderman make elderly.
>> good evening, chief.
So you're explaining that the
the the focus of these cameras
on these cameras unlike the
currawong, the optical cameras
we have now are just video
recording cameras.
The search functions aren't
there as would the flock
cameras in alpers.
It's more of a you can do a
study or some research to find
out you're looking for.
>> right.
So you can actually put in blue
vehicle with sticker at the
rear bumper in search and
they'll narrow it down to
vehicles that matched that
description.
>> that's correct.
>> and then with the the active
cameras they're taking pictures
of every vehicle that travels
through not just a criminal
profile vehicle.
>> they are taking pictures i
just want to be preemptive with
that.
>> they are taking pictures of
every vehicle but law
enforcement can access that
data unless there's reasonable
suspicion associated with it.
There has to be some
investigative means for us to
have access to it and it's very
so when an officer tries to
access that data they have to
fill out certain things and
that's audited.
It's tracked and it gets
associated with an
investigation so someone just
can't go in and type in and say
I want to look at a license
plate and I can tell you from
my previous life and milwaukee
police I can tell you one
instance it was domestic type
situation where an officer got
himself or herself in trouble
by had a relationship.
Want to see where that person
going to vehicle put the plate
in that and we're able to see
that and there's immediate
discipline that was associated
with that behavior.
>> so there's very strict
measures in how to use it has
to be associated with a crime
as we associate with some type
of investigation and it is
audited so any search goes in
there we'll be able to see why
was searched, what to search
for and then we can match that
with someone.
>> officers go to work.
>> they have what's called a
hotlist and a handler shows
nordenson vehicles that could
be in their area of operation
or where they're working.
>> right.
So what the license plate
reader does for that officer
stuto officer seen it.
>> you'll be alerted he stole
vehicles at ah just stroll
through this location at this
time.
>> the other thing that this
alpers cameras can also do for
us is see we have a
presidential visit and we want
to we can actually see for
location anything that looks at
suspicious packages is what I'm
talking about.
If a big place and sister for
a long period of time alert the
officers, there's an object
that was sitting there that was
not there for a longer period
of time and that is an extreme
situation awareness for us
especially in presidential
dignitary type visits.
So it's a multitude of things
but I can tell you this it's a
tool that has very strict
policies and procedures of how
we utilize this tool and it is
not the facial recognition.
There's no fake facial
recognition at all in this
alpers cameras and like I said,
after 31 days that data's gone
.
I'm glad there's a lot of
oversight on this because the
phrase I'm with the government,
I'm here to help is a good
phrase.
>> civil liberties are always
the balancing act we have to
have and as I understand it,
you currently have alpers in
mobile form on squad cars
driving around but I think for
me the oversight we had to make
sure that any data that's
gathered by anybody needs to
have the proper oversight and
audit done so we're playing by
the rules.
>> thank you all.
>> I've been lucky.
>> so for example, I'm just
going to pick this out of the
air.
Let's say you have a red car
with a white bumper sticker on
the back involved in a hit and
run on moreland boulevard.
So you have a complaint from a
citizen, the person who was hit
it was a red car with a white
bumper sticker.
Would you be able to go into
this system and say I want to
look for all red cars with a
white bumper sticker on that
with that exact and then and
then that would get you to a
license plate and be able to
then investigate?
>> that's correct.
Ok, then I'd be in my in my
previous career we've been very
successful with just the basics
part of license plate readers.
This one here has more up to
date and more technology
advanced technology where we
could actually exactly or crack
in the rear quarter panel
window they'll be able to
narrow down two vehicles that
match that's precise
information.
Alderman older person kelvin
slaven.
>> yeah.
So I just have a quick question
sort of on the flip side this
is really only targeting the
vehicles themselves so not the
driver.
So let's say there's a driver
who has a registered vehicle
with a specific license plate
and they have a history of x,
y, z criminal behavior.
You aren't necessarily tracking
that license plate to kind of
follow that person around,
right?
>> I mean that seems obvious
but I just want to make sure
that that's clarified that it
clarifies what we're looking
for is crime.
So unregistered vehicles we're
not tracking those type of
things.
We're tracking retail thefts.
We're tracking stolen vehicles
,tracking robberies.
You're tracking hit and runs.
We're tracking those type of
crimes and we're not tracking
individuals.
>> we are using the license
plate reader information as
intelligence to provide a lead
to assistance of further
investigation any other
questions for chief all
romanian for my technology hat
on for a minute and ask a
couple of questions unnecessary
totally finance related but
could be how do these things
communicate back to home base
and are they living on the city
network of a self-contained
where's that data being stored?
>> flagstaff's the data cosper
camera is about twenty eight
hundred dollars per camera.
That includes storing the data
associated with that has no
network ties into the city at
all.
>> ok, are they cellular level
connecting back to flock.
>> yes.
Ok thank you for that.
>> I am I only ask that just in
case you think that questions
out from left field we we in
the I.T. Board spend a lot of
time talking about cameras and
data storage and the expenses.
yes.
With that particular item in
the optical cameras one of
those items that we've dealt
with over the years.
>> so I just wondered if this
was similar or not.
>> you bring up one good point
like to so one of the things we
do want to do with these
cameras is we want to do the
six pilot testing, get the data
no cost to the city at all.
But we want to do is leverage
our data to be a force
multiplier.
>> we go to these businesses
and say you retail thefts are
here.
>> our guard is capturing us.
You would you be interested in
obtaining this license plate?
We MAY come to you as a console
and see these five points in a
city are definitely worth us
putting these license rear
cameras at these locations
because we'll be a force
multiplier and reducing
implicating transit crime
that's occurred in our city.
>> alderman lepke, my business
has a camera in it that is
focused on the intersection of
highway 100 and capital drive
and it just sits there 24 hours
a day and his focus is on that
intersection and a company pays
me thirty dollars a month just
to have that camera there so
that there's evidence accident
on that corner.
They can go back there with a
complaint from citizen that
there was an accident here and
they can get a video of that.
>> they sell the information to
the to the authorities, you
know, so they can get paid.
But it's a good idea to have a
camera there that does nothing
but just sits there in case
something happens not to spy on
everybody but just to like
somebody steals the catalytic
converter off of a of of a lot
you know, somebody says we saw
a blue sedan with a broken out
window search for that to maybe
lead to a crime.
Our business replaces two to
three catalytic converters a
month and that's just one
little gas station.
>> so that is a huge crime
opportunity to put it in big
parking lots to maybe catch
these catalytic converter
thieves because they are
impacting a tremendous expense
.
>> the average catalytic
converter is two thousand
dollars for a customer if yours
gets cut out of your car.
>> so catch these people.
They just use an electric
sawzall and they're gone in
about three minutes.
So I'm I'm in favor of this
program.
>> thank you.
Very good.
>> any other any other
discussion?
I'll entertain a motion to
approve the item is presented
alan mcilvanney I'll second
I'll make a motion to approve
the item as presented alderman
elderly is the second any
further discussion on this item
?
>> it's not my very good one
appears on your screen please
vote that item passes
unanimously.
Thank you.
Thank you gentlemen.
Thank you very much.
do you have a good night?
>> brings us to item number
four which is review and act on
the approval of a mowing
contract for tall grass and
weeds on private property.
>> MISS Andrews, thank you for
being thank you for being
writing a thank you for being
patient this evening.
>> jennifer, this is just a
renewal we have a contract with
a landscape contractor to mow
on private property when
there's a violation in the
private property owner has not
taken care of that we assess
that cost back to the private
property owner as well.
>> this is a renewal of the
contract.
They performed very well over
the last three years is for
three years and there's no
price increase.
>> so ok, very good.
Thank you jennifer.
>> alderman lemcke correct in
assuming that gorath over help
that I pushed it am I am I
correct to assume that the
ordinance is that grass cannot
be longer than eight inches and
if a person refuses to cut it
they get a little notice on
their lawn that says you must
cut this within three days and
if they don't do it then this
contractor would come out and
mow that grass to be billed to
the property owner.
>> yep, that's correct.
Thank ok any any other
questions for jennifer?
I'll make a motion to approve.
Is there a second second by
alderman bartel's any further
discussion on this item?
>> all right.
When it appears on your screen
please vote that item passes
unanimously.
Thank you, jennifer.
That'll bring us to item number
four d which is a matter of
report this evening and that's
capital carryovers by fund
funds for four ten four
twenty four thirty six three
six five which is clean water
and return flow deniece ok yeah
so these items again are being
presented as a matter of report
and attached to your agenda is
a separate document for each of
the funds with the carryovers
because these capital funds are
considered nonlawyer corpsing
statutorily there's no action
needed on your part this
evening but we do like to
present this once a year around
this time what I was going to
do is just make a few global
comments about carryovers and
then if you'd like me to go
into the individual sheets I
will but I start with just a
few global comments and we can
go from there.
>> so the capital funds are
considered non lapsing because
these projects often are
multi-year projects or there
MAY be a large capital purchase
for some kind of fleet
equipment where we purchase in
one year but we don't receive
the the item until the
following year and then then
we're required to make payment
on and I think this year in the
last in the previous year this
was especially true due to
covid and some of the supply
chain issues.
So we're going to see some of
these carryovers be maybe a
little bit higher than maybe
they had been in the last
couple of years.
The other thing is as we know
we've been tackling a lot of
large capital projects over the
last few years, many of which
are going to come to an end
come to completion by the
summer of 2022.
>> so this ah this is just
we're going to be carrying over
those funds so that we can
complete those projects and
then we'd be looking if there
are any savings in these
projects we'd be looking to
apply some of those excess
funds balances perhaps to some
projects in 2023 or reducing
our spring borrowing in 2020 or
three.
>> so right now this is
carrying over the amounts to
complete a lot of projects.
Right.
Denise, thank you.
So just in summation and we
have the sheet on our um on our
we have our sheet attached so
you've got a summary sheet for
each of the each of the funds
and like you said, this is more
of a matter of report because
these are capital capital
projects that have been
approved by the finance
committee in the council.
Just to your point like due to
timing and some other things
aren't didn't quite get done or
getting carried over into the
next fiscal year.
>> that's correct.
Was there any questions from
the committee on any of the
specific funds?
Again, we've got the summary
sheets and I know we've all
reviewed well.
>> all right, denise, thank you
.
so there's no action needed on
that because it's a matter of
report that'll bring us to
communications.
>> denise, anything nothing on
my end.
>> ok and referrals any
referrals?
The committee.
All right.
All I mean mannion if this
counts as a referral but if it
might it's more of a request.
But that's kind of what a
referral is.
>> I was wondering, denise,
maybe if you could put your
head together with kevin and
provide for the finance
committee a little bit of a
report around the potential
impact of rising fuel costs on
the city and if there is a plan
to mitigate that or deal with
that or what that impact is
going to be long term in our
budget this year.
>> yeah, I'll make a note to do
that.
>> I know we've been in
discussions with some of the
guys in fleet but but yeah that
that is a concern for all of us
so I'm sure it is you know, I
just think it might make sense
to bring that to light and
provide some some data.
>> maybe I'm the only one
that's interested in that.
But I think it would be an
interesting item to bring
forward to the finance
committee.
>> yeah, yeah.
We can certainly do that.
Thank you denise.
Yeah I would I would agree with
dan.
I think that you know maybe in
our next meeting or two if you
can have just a little bit of
an update on that because I
I've also heard anecdotes that
you know, diesel fuels at three
four, five dollars a gallon,
six dollars a gallon, some yeah
.
>> I have a funny feeling
that's going to start to impact
our budget at some point.
>> so we appreciate you putting
some put some effort into that
any are there any other
referrals from the committee
this evening and our next
meeting, denise, is JUNE 14th,
JUNE forty six pm.
All right.
So our next meeting of the
finance committee is JUNE 14th
,6:00 pm and if there's no