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Good evening and uh welcome to the

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Thursday, August, actually it's Tuesday,

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August 25th. We need to fix that on the

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uh on the agenda to to change that name

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the uh

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the day of the week. Um but it's August

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25th. uh we have a study session uh

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number 2026-2

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and I'd ask that everybody please

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silence your phones and stand for the

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pledge of allegiance

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to the flag of the United States of

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America and to the republic for it

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stands one nation

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indivisible with liberty and justice for

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Roll call. Mayor Rey

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>> here.

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>> Mayor Prom Brock

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>> here.

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>> Councilman Dow.

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>> Councilwoman Was

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>> here.

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>> Councilman Corals.

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Councilman Darwitch. [clears throat]

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Councilwoman Lawrence

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>> here. A quorum is present.

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Okay. Item number one, prosecutotorial

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services interviews. Um first firm is um

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Fosone and Grisco.

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>> Good evening.

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>> Um we're going to start out and let you

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talk about your your firm and uh about

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why about what you can do prosecution

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wise and then we'll ask some questions

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and give you some time at the end.

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>> We appreciate you being here tonight.

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>> Yeah, of course. Thank you very much for

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having us. It's good to be with you all.

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I had uh of course planned to begin with

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a joke uh about how the uh council saved

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the best for last uh but then obviously

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uh we got a phone call uh to come and be

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first instead. So I don't know what that

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says about it. [laughter]

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So at any rate that was a joke. Um in

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all seriousness it's our great pleasure

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to be here with you again. Um the firm

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uh as I think we may have talked about

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last time the law firm of Fosone and

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Grisco which uh is the successor to

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Fossil and Bond has been around uh since

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the 1990s. Um we've been doing

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prosecution since at least the 2010s. So

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about 16 years um worth of prosecutions

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going on there. Um mostly for the city

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of Westland. Uh there was a period of

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time where we also uh did the legal work

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for the city of Wayne actually which I

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think some of you uh remember a couple

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of different faces um probably in that

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regard.

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Um but currently we're in the 18th

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district court in Westland, a fairly

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busy court. Um but one where the

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busyiness of the court uh means that we

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have to have staff sufficient to deal

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with those issues. And so consequently

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that means that we have uh a number of

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attorneys that are trained and

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proficient in prosecution work. Um and

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so to the extent coverage issues arise,

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there are a number of attorneys that

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would be able to step in um in an

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emergency to to be able to provide

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coverage on on various issues. Um but at

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any rate, uh I am here with my partner

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Jackie Bona. Um the proposal that we

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provided does present Jackie uh as the

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lead prosecutor. Um so I'm the managing

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partner of the firm and sort of have

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general supervisory responsibility over

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all of our practice areas, including our

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municipal practice group. Um but I

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wanted to give Jackie a moment to

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introduce herself um and to to tell you

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a little bit about herself. Okay.

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>> Good evening. I'm Jackie Bona and um I

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came to Foson Brisco in 2017. So uh just

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about 10 years now. And before that I

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was a courtappointed lawyer in uh

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Westland. So I was 23 years experience

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working with indigenous defendants there

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uh representing um hundreds if not close

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to thousands of people through the years

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um in the district court. I also did uh

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work in other district courts in the

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area and when they had a need arise for

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a prosecutor um they asked me to

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interview and I accepted a position

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there. So I started out prosecuting in

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Westland. I also did some coverage work

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for now Judge Olyri, but at the time she

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was prosecuting in Wayne. So I was in

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Wayne a couple of times for Judge Olirri

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uh covering for her uh doing the

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prosecution in front of Judge Mack. Um

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so since then I I basically spend almost

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all my time in Westland um working in um

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the the district court there pre-trials

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uh jury trials bench trials evidentary

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hearings if we have appeals um I've

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worked on appellet work to the circuit

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court to the court of appeals and even

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to the supreme court we had a case um I

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didn't get to argue it but uh I did have

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to um research and prepare the brief um

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So, uh, that being said, after I was

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brought on, uh, we've had, um, younger

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attorneys come in. I'm in charge of

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training them and getting them prepared.

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Uh, and we have at least four of us that

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can rotate through prosecution, and

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they're all proficient in the district

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court.

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>> And the council has already met Sean

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Fitzgerald, who is the attorney who was

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with me the last time that I was here.

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Um, and Shawn has a history of uh pretty

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extensive municipal representation in a

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variety of areas including prosecution.

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Um, and Shawn would also be uh one of

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the attorneys uh potentially in the

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rotation for the city of Wayne work. Um,

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but I wanted to point out that we we

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didn't want to necessarily bring three

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people um because you'd already met

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Sean. So, I felt I felt perhaps uh we'd

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give you a different look here today.

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Um, one of the [clears throat] questions

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that you'd asked me to speak to was uh

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the the rate. Um, and so the proposal

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that we submitted identified an hourly

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rate of $175 per hour. Um, we would be

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open to discussing, if selected,

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alternative fee arrangements that make

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sense. Um, so I think those those things

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are, you know, somewhat negotiable. I

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know that there's opportunity at times

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for blended rates, um, or even flat

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rates when it makes sense. Uh, value

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based billing and different arrangements

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like that. and we'd be happy to explore

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any of those things. Um, again, if uh if

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the city decides that that we're to be

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selected for the prosecution work. Um,

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the function of the local prosecutor in

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our opinion is very important. There's a

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litany of local policy decisions and

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enforcement decisions that all flow

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through the prosecutor's office. So, we

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know that this is an important decision.

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Uh, we make no bones about it that we we

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want to be your prosecutors. That's why

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we're here today. Uh we think we're the

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best firm uh the best candidates for the

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position. We think that we have the

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opportunity to offer strategic legal

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advice um both of course in general

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counsel work, but we're here tonight to

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talk about prosecution. Um and so we

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have the capability of doing that. It's

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been proven uh in a community that's

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just not all that far from here. Um and

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that has some of the same types of

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concerns and issues that you can see

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from the questions um that the council

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and the and the city management has put

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together. Those are some of the very

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same issues that we deal with uh day in

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and day out for uh other clients. Um and

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so with that, I'm I'm happy to get into

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uh whatever questions the council has

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and we look forward to the discussion.

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Okay. Um I'm going to ask you this

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before we start that is your firm able

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to provide prosecutional services for

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the 29th district criminal dockets every

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week Tuesday from 8:00 a.m. noon and one

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Monday a month at 8:00 a.m. noon to

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noon. uh in jury trials that are held on

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Thursdays or Fridays when necessary. Uh

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is it imperative that our city's legal

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representation it is imperative that our

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city's legal representation be able to

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offer sufficient staffing to cover these

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dockets? Is that an issue?

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>> That's not an issue at all. Um in fact,

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I I actually think that um probably

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between Jackie and Shawn uh there would

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almost be 100% coverage just with those

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two attorneys. Um but again to the

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extent that it's necessary, we've have

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two or three other people that would be

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able to step in um sort of on a uh I

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would say not necessarily a regular

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basis, but if necessary, they would be

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able to step in as well.

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>> Okay. Okay. Um

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Councilwoman Lawrence, do you want to

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start us off and just tell us the number

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of questions so we can all keep track?

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>> Okay,

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hang on for a second. Let me find my uh

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bearings here.

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How many cases have you represented? Oh,

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I'm sorry. It's question 10.

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How many cases have you represented with

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a municipality regarding environmental

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violations such as air quality, fugitive

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dust, geotechnical reports, and various

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soil contamination testing?

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Did you go to trial and what were the

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outcomes?

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>> So, this is uh this is an interesting

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question. Um I I guess the first thing

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I'd say is that the firm uh myself and attorney Stephen J. Brown um along

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with attorneys from Wayne County uh

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litigated through trial uh the Van Beern

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Township hazardous materials landfill

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case. Uh we won that case and and we're

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up on appeal now. Um so we have

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experience with that. We also have

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experience dealing with regulated

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industry generally. So uh representing a

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wastewater authority for example and

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it's NPDS permitting um or different

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sorts of of permitting that may be

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required. And similarly with private

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industry uh with respect to the various

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permits that they need from

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environmental companies and things like

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that. Um the reason I found it to be an

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interesting question uh is that I think

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so so yeah to be clear we have

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experience in that regard. Um

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it's not necessarily something that I

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would typically think of as like a

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district court prosecution function. I

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mean it's something we'd be happy to do

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in a service that we're uh qualified to

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provide. Um but it it strikes me as uh

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as a little bit of of an odd uh practice

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area for your typical prosecutor. Um I

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could certainly imagine contexts where

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it would be relevant. Say for example in

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the zoning context or perhaps local

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ordinances uh regarding maybe

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sedimentation control or uh the local

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you know wastewater public sanitary

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sewer system. Um that's certainly

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something we can do and and we have the

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capability for though. I have to say,

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oh, sorry, go ahead. With respect to, I

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mean, I guess a sort of a branch off of

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that is we deal with uh ordinance

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violations in blight and zoning and um

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that type of uh of a case regularly, uh

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daily, I'd say. Um we work very closely

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with the ordinance department. Um our

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00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:06,240
main goal, obviously, uh the city's main

271
00:39:06,240 --> 00:39:10,960
goal is compliance. Um, so we try to

272
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:14,160
work with the city uh the defendant

273
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:17,280
being charged with how to best uh go

274
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:19,200
about the goal of compliance, however

275
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:21,680
that may be. Uh, we know that some

276
00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:23,359
people are just not going to comply,

277
00:39:23,359 --> 00:39:24,640
which is fine. They have the right to

278
00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:27,440
have a trial and we do a jury trial and

279
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:30,320
present the evidence that we have um in

280
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:31,599
front of a jury and then the jury

281
00:39:31,599 --> 00:39:34,480
decides. So, we understand that not

282
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:36,160
everybody is going to comply or wants

283
00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:38,400
to. And in that sense, we'll just do a

284
00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:40,320
trial, let the jury decide.

285
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:41,920
>> Yeah. And I would say lastly, just to

286
00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:44,560
wrap that uh question up, there's also a

287
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:46,480
variety of civil and administrative

288
00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:49,440
procedures that may be more appropriate

289
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:53,599
for um uh that type of environmental

290
00:39:53,599 --> 00:39:56,400
related issue. Um so for example a

291
00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:59,200
public nuisance case or perhaps um a

292
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:02,079
case related to uh fire protection

293
00:40:02,079 --> 00:40:03,599
because the fire protection code has

294
00:40:03,599 --> 00:40:05,599
some uh elements of it that relate to

295
00:40:05,599 --> 00:40:07,040
hazardous materials and things of that

296
00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:10,079
nature. Um so we would be to the extent

297
00:40:10,079 --> 00:40:11,680
an issue like that came our way in a

298
00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:13,599
prosecution role I think we would be

299
00:40:13,599 --> 00:40:15,280
looking at what the best way is to

300
00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:17,520
tackle it with the ultimate goal of

301
00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:19,520
compliance and and cost recovery to the

302
00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:21,760
extent the city uh has has suffered

303
00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:22,960
loss.

304
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:25,520
>> Okay. you said something I just want to

305
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:27,920
piggy back off of that. So when you're

306
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:30,400
dealing with try people are you're

307
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:32,079
trying to get compliance that's really

308
00:40:32,079 --> 00:40:34,960
out the ultimate goal. How long do you

309
00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:38,240
recommend you go working on compliance

310
00:40:38,240 --> 00:40:40,079
before you say no this is enough we need

311
00:40:40,079 --> 00:40:42,079
to move this forward?

312
00:40:42,079 --> 00:40:44,000
>> Um I think it's really case by case

313
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:46,320
basis honestly every defendant's

314
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:47,680
different every charge is different.

315
00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:49,359
Every circumstance is different right?

316
00:40:49,359 --> 00:40:53,760
So, we um what we'll do is is if it's a

317
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:57,680
it's an emergency situation, the city um

318
00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:02,800
the ordinance department sees that it's a public safety issue uh and it

319
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:04,800
needs to be addressed quickly. Um

320
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:06,720
usually by the time that the ordinance

321
00:41:06,720 --> 00:41:09,040
officer writes the ticket and I see it

322
00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:11,839
at the court, they've already tried uh

323
00:41:11,839 --> 00:41:13,599
talking to the person, trying to get

324
00:41:13,599 --> 00:41:15,359
compliance. Let's see if we can work on

325
00:41:15,359 --> 00:41:17,359
this with you. And if that's not

326
00:41:17,359 --> 00:41:19,359
happening, they get the ticket. So by

327
00:41:19,359 --> 00:41:23,440
the time I see it at that point at the court level, they've already

328
00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:26,160
gotten some opportunities, if it's not a

329
00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:28,480
matter of extreme safety or hazardous

330
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:30,160
issues, I might give them an adjournment

331
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:33,280
a couple times uh two weeks or a month

332
00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:35,680
or so. Um if it's something that's just

333
00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:37,760
really not going to happen, uh because

334
00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:40,240
either they can't do it or won't do it.

335
00:41:40,240 --> 00:41:42,880
Um then at that point, again, that's

336
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:44,800
where you say, do you want a bench trial

337
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:48,640
or do you want a jury trial? Um and then

338
00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:50,560
again if it's if we have strength of

339
00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:52,319
evidence if we have all all if we have

340
00:41:52,319 --> 00:41:53,680
all the evidence that we need to move

341
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:56,480
forward at that point in time we just do

342
00:41:56,480 --> 00:41:59,359
the trial and you know I think dragging

343
00:41:59,359 --> 00:42:01,040
it on for months and months at a time is

344
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:02,400
not good for anybody. Everyone gets

345
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:04,560
frustrated by that and then at that

346
00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:06,800
point if that person's found guilty then

347
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:08,319
it's up to the judge to decide what to

348
00:42:08,319 --> 00:42:11,200
do. Uh if it's a if it's a criminal case

349
00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:13,119
if it's a civil case you know that's

350
00:42:13,119 --> 00:42:15,040
another story. Uh, but if we're talking

351
00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:17,359
about a misdemeanor that's in front of

352
00:42:17,359 --> 00:42:19,520
Judge Olirri and the person's found

353
00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:21,359
guilty, then the then the sentencing is

354
00:42:21,359 --> 00:42:23,200
up to her.

355
00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:27,510
>> Okay. Councilwas,

356
00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:29,359
» let's stay on that vein then. Go with

357
00:42:29,359 --> 00:42:32,319
number 12. Um, what experience do you

358
00:42:32,319 --> 00:42:34,480
have? Do you have any experience with um

359
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:38,480
habitual offenders andor difficult,

360
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:41,119
mentally ill or retaliatory uh

361
00:42:41,119 --> 00:42:42,640
violators?

362
00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:45,839
>> We do. Yes. I I'd have to say for me um

363
00:42:45,839 --> 00:42:49,599
in all the years I I represented uh uh

364
00:42:49,599 --> 00:42:51,680
defendants as a court-appointed lawyer,

365
00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:53,760
I I I ran through my my share of

366
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:56,000
difficult people. Uh and now as a

367
00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:59,280
prosecutor, same um we [snorts] just I

368
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:00,640
just try to treat everybody with

369
00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:03,440
respect. Um uh but firmness. I treat

370
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:06,160
everybody the same. I offer the same

371
00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:08,000
plea deal. Not because I you know that

372
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:10,960
you've done or said X about me. The plea

373
00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:12,800
deal is the same. I don't take things

374
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:16,640
personal. Um, and I just try to remain

375
00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:18,720
as professional as I possibly can. If

376
00:43:18,720 --> 00:43:20,960
the person doesn't want to work out any

377
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:23,680
kind of resolution that might be uh be

378
00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:26,000
able to resolve the case for example

379
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:29,599
then again I done all I can and I I will

380
00:43:29,599 --> 00:43:31,599
we'll just ask for a trial and then then

381
00:43:31,599 --> 00:43:33,440
the if I have the evidence to move

382
00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:35,839
forward five witnesses and strength of

383
00:43:35,839 --> 00:43:38,319
case at that point in time we just set

384
00:43:38,319 --> 00:43:39,760
it for a trial and then the judge

385
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:43,920
decides um or a jury. Um, but I I guess

386
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:46,319
what I how I feel about that is is it it

387
00:43:46,319 --> 00:43:49,680
kind of comes with a job and um, you

388
00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:51,119
know, we just try to treat everybody

389
00:43:51,119 --> 00:43:53,520
with respect and do our job. I just want

390
00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:55,440
to be professional.

391
00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:57,599
>> There's a number of instances where we

392
00:43:57,599 --> 00:43:59,920
run into people who have, you know,

393
00:43:59,920 --> 00:44:01,599
either mental health issues or they're

394
00:44:01,599 --> 00:44:03,920
just, you know, vindic vindictive or

395
00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:06,560
something like this. And uh I think

396
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:07,920
there's something to be said for the

397
00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:09,520
level of experience that we have that

398
00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:11,920
Jackie has in particular over all these

399
00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:14,160
years of of dealing with uh criminal

400
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:16,400
defendants both and believe it or not as

401
00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:18,160
the defense attorney sometimes you've

402
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:19,440
almost got a harder job dealing with

403
00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:20,960
your client trying to get them to be

404
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:22,560
reasonable you know and those sorts of

405
00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:24,880
things. So I have 100% confidence in

406
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:27,040
Jackie in that regard. Um but she's

407
00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:28,480
absolutely right. It does come with the

408
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:30,960
territory. It's something that uh in a

409
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:32,319
community that's really not all that far

410
00:44:32,319 --> 00:44:34,720
away uh and in a court that's uh quite a

411
00:44:34,720 --> 00:44:36,480
bit busier, we run into all sorts of

412
00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:39,359
people over there. Um you know, and uh

413
00:44:39,359 --> 00:44:41,200
and a lot of times that means dealing

414
00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:43,920
with uh some people that may uh bounce

415
00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:46,319
over from from Wayne into Westland to do

416
00:44:46,319 --> 00:44:49,440
something that we have to deal with and vice versa. I'm sure you have uh

417
00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:51,040
some of our repeat offenders uh down

418
00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:52,880
here, too. Um, so there's been a number

419
00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:54,160
of different cases where we've had to

420
00:44:54,160 --> 00:44:57,200
deal with that. And, uh, my staff, uh,

421
00:44:57,200 --> 00:44:59,599
is always professional but firm in the

422
00:44:59,599 --> 00:45:01,680
way that they deal with these things

423
00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:04,160
because at the end of the day, we have a

424
00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:06,160
mission to accomplish, right? The

425
00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:08,319
mission is is as prosecutors, we're law

426
00:45:08,319 --> 00:45:10,079
enforcement uh, officials for the

427
00:45:10,079 --> 00:45:12,800
community that we serve. Um, and so that

428
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:14,960
means that we're based on a variety of

429
00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:17,760
factors. We're looking for how do we

430
00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:19,040
accomplish the goals that are in the

431
00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:21,280
best interest of the city and its and

432
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:23,200
its residents and it's really about

433
00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:25,119
justice which means holding people

434
00:45:25,119 --> 00:45:28,390
accountable.

435
00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:32,640
» Okay. Uh Mayor Proto,

436
00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:37,760
>> this has to do with process and any

437
00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:39,040
experience you may have had in this

438
00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:41,839
vein. Uh is there anything that you

439
00:45:41,839 --> 00:45:43,680
could or feel you could do as a city

440
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:46,240
prosecutor to improve the efficiency of

441
00:45:46,240 --> 00:45:50,870
any city court operations?

442
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:53,839
Yeah, I'll take that. Um, I think you I

443
00:45:53,839 --> 00:45:55,280
think these are tough questions and it's

444
00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:57,520
a good question. Uh, but it almost

445
00:45:57,520 --> 00:45:59,920
presupposes that we we come in with some

446
00:45:59,920 --> 00:46:01,359
preconceived notions about how things

447
00:46:01,359 --> 00:46:02,960
are done here, which we really don't

448
00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:04,880
have quite truthfully. I mean, uh, may

449
00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:06,880
have may have taken some time to flip

450
00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:08,640
through a couple of ordinances or the

451
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:12,319
charter or something like that. Um, but right now we don't know what we

452
00:46:12,319 --> 00:46:13,920
don't know. And so I think there's an

453
00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:16,319
element of who are the people with boots

454
00:46:16,319 --> 00:46:18,800
on the ground uh that are that are

455
00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:20,319
trying to get I'll just use an example

456
00:46:20,319 --> 00:46:22,000
of blight, right? Who are the people

457
00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:23,440
with boots on the ground trying to gain

458
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:25,280
compliance with blight? Presumably

459
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:27,520
they're writing tickets or or seeking

460
00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:30,240
warrant requests. And what challenges

461
00:46:30,240 --> 00:46:32,400
are they having or seeing over at the

462
00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:34,319
court with these cases either not

463
00:46:34,319 --> 00:46:36,240
getting uh maybe they're getting

464
00:46:36,240 --> 00:46:38,079
dismissed for one reason or another um

465
00:46:38,079 --> 00:46:39,280
or there could be any number of

466
00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:40,480
different problems. And the same thing

467
00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:42,000
with the police department, right?

468
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:44,160
they're out there boots on the ground uh

469
00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:46,160
and and maybe working on crime in a

470
00:46:46,160 --> 00:46:48,240
certain area or certain types of crime

471
00:46:48,240 --> 00:46:49,839
and so what are they seeing? What

472
00:46:49,839 --> 00:46:51,440
challenges are they experiencing or

473
00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:55,119
seeing firsthand uh at the court? And

474
00:46:55,119 --> 00:46:57,040
then what is city management seeing?

475
00:46:57,040 --> 00:46:58,720
What is the city council seeing? So I

476
00:46:58,720 --> 00:47:00,560
think in terms of process, it's really a

477
00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:02,400
question of how do we manage the

478
00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:04,880
transition and do the factf finding

479
00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:07,599
sufficient to be able to identify the

480
00:47:07,599 --> 00:47:09,599
areas that are ripe for improvement and

481
00:47:09,599 --> 00:47:11,599
the things that are working well. We're

482
00:47:11,599 --> 00:47:12,960
not trying to come in and change those

483
00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:15,760
things, right? Uh maybe at some point we

484
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:17,599
identify additional efficiencies. I

485
00:47:17,599 --> 00:47:18,800
think the starting point is a little bit

486
00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:20,880
of triage. That's how I would approach

487
00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:23,119
that.

488
00:47:23,119 --> 00:47:24,800
>> Okay.

489
00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:27,599
Are there any matters you would or would

490
00:47:27,599 --> 00:47:29,359
not provide counsel to our police

491
00:47:29,359 --> 00:47:31,440
department on when you're when they're

492
00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:34,000
dealing with issues?

493
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:35,839
>> No.

494
00:47:35,839 --> 00:47:37,359
>> Is a one- word answer. Okay.

495
00:47:37,359 --> 00:47:40,160
>> It's fine. I I I would say that I I

496
00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:42,560
speak to our police department on a

497
00:47:42,560 --> 00:47:44,960
daily basis about something or another.

498
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:48,960
Um I uh do all of their new officer

499
00:47:48,960 --> 00:47:50,720
training um [clears throat] when they

500
00:47:50,720 --> 00:47:55,599
come in as new cadetses. Um I do um

501
00:47:55,599 --> 00:47:57,440
legal training, I'd say once a year at

502
00:47:57,440 --> 00:47:59,839
least for the full department on any

503
00:47:59,839 --> 00:48:01,599
kind of new legal updates or any kind of

504
00:48:01,599 --> 00:48:03,040
questions or issues I've been seeing

505
00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:04,400
over at the court. something that I

506
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:06,160
would like them to focus on and improve

507
00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:10,480
on and maybe do some some work on. Um I

508
00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:13,280
talk to them regularly about um warrant

509
00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:15,440
requests and issues they may be having

510
00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:21,760
with cases. Um I would say like I said I they have my cell phone number. Most

511
00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:23,280
of them when I do new officer training,

512
00:48:23,280 --> 00:48:25,200
I give them my my cell phone number. If

513
00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:26,960
you ever had any issues or questions or

514
00:48:26,960 --> 00:48:29,119
anything as you're starting out, uh ask

515
00:48:29,119 --> 00:48:32,640
me directly. Um, and I'd say the whole

516
00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:34,000
detective bureau has my cell phone

517
00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:35,359
number in case there's ever a question

518
00:48:35,359 --> 00:48:36,559
about anything that they're working on

519
00:48:36,559 --> 00:48:38,880
and we talk on a on a regular basis. I'd

520
00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:40,240
say we have a very good relationship

521
00:48:40,240 --> 00:48:42,640
with our our police department.

522
00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:45,920
>> Okay. Uh, Councilwoman Lawrence,

523
00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:49,200
>> um, define discretion as an appeals to

524
00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:51,440
your role as a city prosecutor. How

525
00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:55,510
would you use this?

526
00:48:55,520 --> 00:48:58,559
So prosecutorial discretion,

527
00:48:58,559 --> 00:49:01,040
I think about with respect to that

528
00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:03,280
whether to charge,

529
00:49:03,280 --> 00:49:05,920
whether to make a plea deal,

530
00:49:05,920 --> 00:49:10,400
um, and how best to advocate for for

531
00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:13,599
justice, for victim restitution,

532
00:49:13,599 --> 00:49:16,960
uh, and and for the city's interests.

533
00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:19,200
So that's how I would define discretion.

534
00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:21,040
I I guess I'd ask Jackie to talk a

535
00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:23,760
little bit about the factors that go

536
00:49:23,760 --> 00:49:26,400
into the use of discretion, but that's

537
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:28,160
how I think about discretion is in terms

538
00:49:28,160 --> 00:49:30,880
of, you know, whether we're going to do

539
00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:33,280
option A or option B.

540
00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:35,680
>> So, I usually take into consideration

541
00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:37,760
the strength of the case. Um, do I have

542
00:49:37,760 --> 00:49:40,720
a good case to move forward? Um, that

543
00:49:40,720 --> 00:49:42,240
obviously has to do with evidence,

544
00:49:42,240 --> 00:49:45,599
witnesses, um, police report, uh,

545
00:49:45,599 --> 00:49:48,240
supporting documents. Um, so do I have

546
00:49:48,240 --> 00:49:50,480
enough evidences first? I'm not gonna I

547
00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:53,440
don't prosecute uh to win. I'm not here

548
00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:56,240
to keep track of wins and losses or how

549
00:49:56,240 --> 00:50:01,520
many people I prosecute in a day. Um, as Brandon already said, it's is to see

550
00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:03,440
that justice is served. I mean, as a as

551
00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:05,359
a quick sentence, but that is what it

552
00:50:05,359 --> 00:50:09,040
is. I take that very seriously. Um, what

553
00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:10,319
does the victim want to do with the

554
00:50:10,319 --> 00:50:12,079
case? Um, I always take that in

555
00:50:12,079 --> 00:50:13,599
consideration. If it's a crime of the

556
00:50:13,599 --> 00:50:16,000
victim, I have discussions with that

557
00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:18,000
person. How do you want to proceed? We

558
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:20,559
we're a team. I represent the city. Uh

559
00:50:20,559 --> 00:50:22,640
however, if you know, I take into

560
00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:24,160
consideration your interests, your

561
00:50:24,160 --> 00:50:25,520
concerns. What do you want to happen

562
00:50:25,520 --> 00:50:28,319
with the case and the public safety? Um

563
00:50:28,319 --> 00:50:31,839
so sometimes if a victim doesn't want to

564
00:50:31,839 --> 00:50:35,119
proceed, I and I decide, well, this is,

565
00:50:35,119 --> 00:50:39,839
you know, I'm I'm understand what you're feeling. However, you know,

566
00:50:39,839 --> 00:50:42,160
this person or say this person has a

567
00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:44,720
trial that was involved. I I have to be

568
00:50:44,720 --> 00:50:46,720
I have to look out for that person if

569
00:50:46,720 --> 00:50:50,000
even if you don't really want to. So I

570
00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:52,800
take into consideration public safety,

571
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:55,119
welfare, the city's interests, all these

572
00:50:55,119 --> 00:50:56,640
things into trying to decide how to

573
00:50:56,640 --> 00:50:58,480
handle a case. And again, it's a

574
00:50:58,480 --> 00:51:01,359
case-byase basis and and I take into

575
00:51:01,359 --> 00:51:03,599
those factors every case that I proceed

576
00:51:03,599 --> 00:51:05,359
on or not.

577
00:51:05,359 --> 00:51:06,880
I think I want to say one more thing

578
00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:10,000
about that. Um, which is that we also

579
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:13,200
look at the compliance likelihood,

580
00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:15,359
right? And the deterrent effect of the

581
00:51:15,359 --> 00:51:18,480
decisions that we make. Um, so for a

582
00:51:18,480 --> 00:51:20,400
first I mean I'm and I'm just not to use

583
00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:22,559
any specific examples, but you've got a

584
00:51:22,559 --> 00:51:24,400
first-time offender who's likely not to

585
00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:27,280
reaffend again. Um, you know, maybe that

586
00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:30,240
is a case that makes sense uh to have a

587
00:51:30,240 --> 00:51:32,880
plea deal of a certain sort. Uh but

588
00:51:32,880 --> 00:51:34,480
maybe that same deal doesn't really make

589
00:51:34,480 --> 00:51:35,839
sense for somebody who's running around

590
00:51:35,839 --> 00:51:38,079
town uh causing all kinds of problems

591
00:51:38,079 --> 00:51:41,839
and seems to show no uh concern for

592
00:51:41,839 --> 00:51:44,079
amending their behavior. Right? So I

593
00:51:44,079 --> 00:51:45,520
think I think you know those are the

594
00:51:45,520 --> 00:51:47,280
kinds of things that we would be taking

595
00:51:47,280 --> 00:51:49,280
into consideration and thinking about

596
00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:53,920
when exercising uh discretion.

597
00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:56,319
>> Okay. Councilwoman was

598
00:51:56,319 --> 00:51:58,480
>> can I ask one not on here?

599
00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:00,160
>> Yeah. You just got to be able to do do

600
00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:02,400
it again later. You just got to remember

601
00:52:02,400 --> 00:52:05,200
what it is the question for later.

602
00:52:05,200 --> 00:52:06,640
>> You have to do the same question for

603
00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:08,240
everybody. This thing.

604
00:52:08,240 --> 00:52:10,079
>> Oh, okay. Well, I want to ask this

605
00:52:10,079 --> 00:52:11,520
question to everybody.

606
00:52:11,520 --> 00:52:12,960
>> Just write just make sure you can do it

607
00:52:12,960 --> 00:52:15,920
again. That's all.

608
00:52:15,920 --> 00:52:19,760
>> How familiar are you with the cases we

609
00:52:19,760 --> 00:52:22,960
currently have going on?

610
00:52:22,960 --> 00:52:26,880
>> We have some familiarity. Um we don't I

611
00:52:26,880 --> 00:52:29,200
mean I I've you know I understand that

612
00:52:29,200 --> 00:52:30,640
there's certain things going on in town

613
00:52:30,640 --> 00:52:33,119
right now. Um a number of prosay

614
00:52:33,119 --> 00:52:35,520
lawsuits for example uh there's even

615
00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:37,200
some cases that have made their way into

616
00:52:37,200 --> 00:52:39,280
the 18th district court uh for a variety

617
00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:41,280
of reasons um related to the city of

618
00:52:41,280 --> 00:52:43,760
Wayne. Uh so we have some familiarity.

619
00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:46,640
Uh but I have not uh done a deep dive

620
00:52:46,640 --> 00:52:49,839
into the situation to you know frankly

621
00:52:49,839 --> 00:52:51,359
because it's not right part of my

622
00:52:51,359 --> 00:52:53,599
current role. But but at some level

623
00:52:53,599 --> 00:52:54,720
obviously we would need to understand

624
00:52:54,720 --> 00:52:56,400
that.

625
00:52:56,400 --> 00:52:58,720
>> Just making sure that we're aware of

626
00:52:58,720 --> 00:53:00,160
what you're getting your feet into. You

627
00:53:00,160 --> 00:53:01,839
know what I mean? That's you know

628
00:53:01,839 --> 00:53:03,359
>> you have an understanding of this. Yes.

629
00:53:03,359 --> 00:53:04,079
Thank you.

630
00:53:04,079 --> 00:53:04,559
>> Okay.

631
00:53:04,559 --> 00:53:06,559
>> A fair a fair comment [snorts] though.

632
00:53:06,559 --> 00:53:07,839
>> Okay.

633
00:53:07,839 --> 00:53:09,839
>> Mor prom.

634
00:53:09,839 --> 00:53:12,720
>> This question has se this question has

635
00:53:12,720 --> 00:53:14,720
several parts in it and they're going to

636
00:53:14,720 --> 00:53:16,160
be yes or no.

637
00:53:16,160 --> 00:53:19,200
>> They're related to um

638
00:53:19,200 --> 00:53:21,119
uh interpreting and enforcing certain

639
00:53:21,119 --> 00:53:22,400
codes.

640
00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:24,240
uh for reasons of things that are going

641
00:53:24,240 --> 00:53:26,240
on right now. So, regular business, but

642
00:53:26,240 --> 00:53:29,040
there are plans in the city to um uh

643
00:53:29,040 --> 00:53:31,359
continue with modernization. So, it it

644
00:53:31,359 --> 00:53:34,240
your assistance in that case will be and

645
00:53:34,240 --> 00:53:37,040
that that part of it will most likely

646
00:53:37,040 --> 00:53:39,520
would most likely be more important. So,

647
00:53:39,520 --> 00:53:41,839
it's just a yes or no. Uh do you have

648
00:53:41,839 --> 00:53:44,240
experience interpreting and enforcing

649
00:53:44,240 --> 00:53:47,920
the following codes? Right. And I'll do one at a time if that's okay. We

650
00:53:47,920 --> 00:53:49,359
don't need to explain Shar.

651
00:53:49,359 --> 00:53:51,440
>> Please. Yes. The Michigan Building Code,

652
00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:52,640
>> yes.

653
00:53:52,640 --> 00:53:53,760
>> Residential code,

654
00:53:53,760 --> 00:53:54,319
>> yes.

655
00:53:54,319 --> 00:53:55,359
>> Mechanical code,

656
00:53:55,359 --> 00:53:55,920
>> yes.

657
00:53:55,920 --> 00:53:56,880
>> Plumbing code,

658
00:53:56,880 --> 00:53:57,440
>> yes.

659
00:53:57,440 --> 00:53:58,400
>> Electrical code,

660
00:53:58,400 --> 00:53:58,960
>> yes.

661
00:53:58,960 --> 00:53:59,920
>> Fire code,

662
00:53:59,920 --> 00:54:00,559
>> yes.

663
00:54:00,559 --> 00:54:02,880
>> Property manage maintenance code.

664
00:54:02,880 --> 00:54:03,680
>> Yes.

665
00:54:03,680 --> 00:54:06,640
>> And thank you very much.

666
00:54:06,640 --> 00:54:08,559
>> Okay.

667
00:54:08,559 --> 00:54:12,800
>> Um, what do you think your role is as uh

668
00:54:12,800 --> 00:54:19,270
the city prosecutor?

669
00:54:19,280 --> 00:54:22,079
So I compare the role in some sense,

670
00:54:22,079 --> 00:54:23,440
right? You've got a county prosecutor.

671
00:54:23,440 --> 00:54:24,800
They're like the chief law enforcement

672
00:54:24,800 --> 00:54:28,960
official in the county. Um so you've got

673
00:54:28,960 --> 00:54:30,640
a difference in scale, right? And

674
00:54:30,640 --> 00:54:32,319
there's some difference in the types of

675
00:54:32,319 --> 00:54:33,760
things that a city prosecutor can do

676
00:54:33,760 --> 00:54:36,079
versus what a county prosecutor can do.

677
00:54:36,079 --> 00:54:39,119
But it's a law enforcement position.

678
00:54:39,119 --> 00:54:42,079
Basically, it's a it's a uh it's a

679
00:54:42,079 --> 00:54:44,480
position where

680
00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:46,079
based on what the charter says, I I

681
00:54:46,079 --> 00:54:47,280
assume it's similar to other city

682
00:54:47,280 --> 00:54:49,520
charters, but uh the city attorney or

683
00:54:49,520 --> 00:54:51,040
the city prosecutor in this case is

684
00:54:51,040 --> 00:54:54,319
responsible for uh enforcement of the

685
00:54:54,319 --> 00:54:57,680
laws of the city.

686
00:54:57,680 --> 00:54:59,119
>> Jackie, did you want to add to that or

687
00:54:59,119 --> 00:55:01,440
>> No, I just that I mean to bottom line it

688
00:55:01,440 --> 00:55:04,240
that's exactly the rule. Um, of course

689
00:55:04,240 --> 00:55:06,079
there's there's different subsections to

690
00:55:06,079 --> 00:55:08,880
it. Um, that I kind of covered with

691
00:55:08,880 --> 00:55:10,400
respect to the the question on

692
00:55:10,400 --> 00:55:13,920
discretion. Um, but as part of being a

693
00:55:13,920 --> 00:55:16,480
prosecutor in the city, you have to use

694
00:55:16,480 --> 00:55:19,680
discretion on a daily basis. Um, you

695
00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:21,359
also have to understand that that

696
00:55:21,359 --> 00:55:23,280
because you're you're a law enforcement

697
00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:25,680
agent that that comes with certain

698
00:55:25,680 --> 00:55:28,880
powers. Uh, and I'm very mindful of

699
00:55:28,880 --> 00:55:32,480
that. Um, I know that Brandon is too. So

700
00:55:32,480 --> 00:55:35,040
using discretion is important. Um making

701
00:55:35,040 --> 00:55:37,920
sure that that everyone's rights are

702
00:55:37,920 --> 00:55:42,160
equally um concerned and um

703
00:55:42,160 --> 00:55:43,520
basically like I said to see that

704
00:55:43,520 --> 00:55:45,040
justice is done and that's a that's a

705
00:55:45,040 --> 00:55:47,680
simple way of saying it but I do every

706
00:55:47,680 --> 00:55:49,119
day but when I go to work that's that's

707
00:55:49,119 --> 00:55:51,040
the way I feel and I've been doing that

708
00:55:51,040 --> 00:55:53,680
for lots of years but I keep that in my

709
00:55:53,680 --> 00:55:56,319
mind every time I'm there.

710
00:55:56,319 --> 00:55:58,799
Now, when if you were to be hired, would

711
00:55:58,799 --> 00:56:00,720
you come in and then look at what do we

712
00:56:00,720 --> 00:56:02,319
have and if you see something that's

713
00:56:02,319 --> 00:56:04,880
problem, would you make it aware or how

714
00:56:04,880 --> 00:56:07,920
you how do you normally handle that?

715
00:56:07,920 --> 00:56:08,480
>> Absolutely.

716
00:56:08,480 --> 00:56:10,000
>> When you're going through with all that

717
00:56:10,000 --> 00:56:10,559
stuff, you know.

718
00:56:10,559 --> 00:56:11,839
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We're I mean, we're

719
00:56:11,839 --> 00:56:13,680
constantly having conversations with

720
00:56:13,680 --> 00:56:15,200
client representatives about different

721
00:56:15,200 --> 00:56:18,000
issues or coming up with ideas maybe for

722
00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:20,640
ordinances as an example. um you know

723
00:56:20,640 --> 00:56:22,400
that hey maybe you know we're seeing

724
00:56:22,400 --> 00:56:24,240
some of this maybe that means we should

725
00:56:24,240 --> 00:56:26,240
change this ordinance right in order to

726
00:56:26,240 --> 00:56:28,000
cover that activity

727
00:56:28,000 --> 00:56:30,720
>> it's really driven by the people who are

728
00:56:30,720 --> 00:56:32,559
writing the tickets and then what you

729
00:56:32,559 --> 00:56:35,359
see at court I mean we just identified

730
00:56:35,359 --> 00:56:36,960
an issue with an ordinance that we've

731
00:56:36,960 --> 00:56:40,559
had on the books forever and somebody

732
00:56:40,559 --> 00:56:42,880
noticed that there was a comma missing

733
00:56:42,880 --> 00:56:44,559
and it really changed the way that you

734
00:56:44,559 --> 00:56:48,400
read the whole ordinance and so that's a

735
00:56:48,400 --> 00:56:50,480
you know oh Okay. Well, that's something

736
00:56:50,480 --> 00:56:51,599
that's been in the books for a long

737
00:56:51,599 --> 00:56:53,040
time, but it's something that was

738
00:56:53,040 --> 00:56:56,160
brought up recently that okay, now we

739
00:56:56,160 --> 00:56:57,599
got to change the way we look at that

740
00:56:57,599 --> 00:56:59,200
and change the and possibly change the

741
00:56:59,200 --> 00:57:01,760
ordinance. So, it's it's driven by what

742
00:57:01,760 --> 00:57:03,359
you see like like Brandon already

743
00:57:03,359 --> 00:57:05,280
indicated, boots on the ground. And so,

744
00:57:05,280 --> 00:57:07,760
having a meeting with those people that

745
00:57:07,760 --> 00:57:09,359
what and then seeing what happens at the

746
00:57:09,359 --> 00:57:12,799
court level will start that process.

747
00:57:12,799 --> 00:57:14,480
We'll be able to see where the holes are

748
00:57:14,480 --> 00:57:16,319
to try to fill them. And just to be

749
00:57:16,319 --> 00:57:17,839
clear, we're not we're not like running

750
00:57:17,839 --> 00:57:19,359
around out there just changing

751
00:57:19,359 --> 00:57:21,119
ordinances like this. These are things

752
00:57:21,119 --> 00:57:22,640
there's a chain of command involved in

753
00:57:22,640 --> 00:57:24,400
it, right?

754
00:57:24,400 --> 00:57:25,599
So I just don't want I don't want to

755
00:57:25,599 --> 00:57:27,200
give the misimpression that we're you

756
00:57:27,200 --> 00:57:28,880
know talking to patrol officers and then

757
00:57:28,880 --> 00:57:30,720
writing up ordinances without sort of

758
00:57:30,720 --> 00:57:32,400
going through proper channels.

759
00:57:32,400 --> 00:57:34,079
>> No, but I I'm figuring you're you're

760
00:57:34,079 --> 00:57:35,760
prosecuting you see it and if there's a

761
00:57:35,760 --> 00:57:36,640
problem that

762
00:57:36,640 --> 00:57:38,400
>> we we've dealt with different things,

763
00:57:38,400 --> 00:57:39,839
people coming and having a question

764
00:57:39,839 --> 00:57:41,680
about something and we found out, oh,

765
00:57:41,680 --> 00:57:44,160
that got changed. Things change.

766
00:57:44,160 --> 00:57:46,400
you have something in writing one way

767
00:57:46,400 --> 00:57:48,480
and it you find out it's different. It

768
00:57:48,480 --> 00:57:50,000
gets changed at the federal level or

769
00:57:50,000 --> 00:57:52,559
state level and it it voids something or

770
00:57:52,559 --> 00:57:53,040
whatever.

771
00:57:53,040 --> 00:57:54,640
>> Sure. Yeah. State laws change and then

772
00:57:54,640 --> 00:57:56,319
it affects the way the ordinances are

773
00:57:56,319 --> 00:57:58,480
and and we're we're mindful of that too.

774
00:57:58,480 --> 00:57:59,599
Yeah.

775
00:57:59,599 --> 00:58:00,559
>> Okay.

776
00:58:00,559 --> 00:58:03,040
>> Our clock is off. I know that. But so at

777
00:58:03,040 --> 00:58:06,240
this point, let you just g give us uh

778
00:58:06,240 --> 00:58:09,119
your your final push or whatever you

779
00:58:09,119 --> 00:58:12,079
want to call it and uh what you want to

780
00:58:12,079 --> 00:58:13,520
anything questions you have for us or

781
00:58:13,520 --> 00:58:15,440
anything else you wanted to say.

782
00:58:15,440 --> 00:58:18,720
>> Sure. Um

783
00:58:18,720 --> 00:58:21,680
I guess I guess by way of question

784
00:58:21,680 --> 00:58:24,319
is

785
00:58:24,319 --> 00:58:26,559
can this be a collaborative role? I mean

786
00:58:26,559 --> 00:58:28,640
or is it just show up to court and deal

787
00:58:28,640 --> 00:58:30,559
with the tickets that you get? I mean we

788
00:58:30,559 --> 00:58:31,839
can do either, right? Obviously, I

789
00:58:31,839 --> 00:58:33,200
prefer a more collaborative kind of

790
00:58:33,200 --> 00:58:35,280
process where we're able to provide

791
00:58:35,280 --> 00:58:37,280
value that, you know, is not just

792
00:58:37,280 --> 00:58:39,680
limited to uh, you know, you show up to

793
00:58:39,680 --> 00:58:41,440
court and then you never see the client.

794
00:58:41,440 --> 00:58:43,119
Um, I don't know what's been the

795
00:58:43,119 --> 00:58:45,200
experience of city management or city

796
00:58:45,200 --> 00:58:46,720
council in that regard, but those are

797
00:58:46,720 --> 00:58:48,480
things I'd be interested in. Even if you

798
00:58:48,480 --> 00:58:49,920
can't answer today, that's okay, but

799
00:58:49,920 --> 00:58:50,960
yeah, those are things I'd be interested

800
00:58:50,960 --> 00:58:52,480
in having more discussions about.

801
00:58:52,480 --> 00:58:54,640
>> So, you prefer a more collaborative role

802
00:58:54,640 --> 00:58:57,040
with the city is what you're saying?

803
00:58:57,040 --> 00:58:58,000
>> Yes, absolutely.

804
00:58:58,000 --> 00:59:00,559
>> Okay. And I mentioned this last time,

805
00:59:00,559 --> 00:59:02,319
um, and I know we're not here to talk

806
00:59:02,319 --> 00:59:03,839
about general counsel, and last time we

807
00:59:03,839 --> 00:59:06,559
weren't there to talk about prosecution,

808
00:59:06,559 --> 00:59:08,880
but I just can't stress enough that I

809
00:59:08,880 --> 00:59:12,000
see such a such an incredible value in

810
00:59:12,000 --> 00:59:14,640
having uh the general counsel function

811
00:59:14,640 --> 00:59:17,040
and the prosecution function under one

812
00:59:17,040 --> 00:59:19,200
uh sort of roof, right? Because just

813
00:59:19,200 --> 00:59:20,559
like some of the questions that we

814
00:59:20,559 --> 00:59:22,640
talked about, uh, for example, all those

815
00:59:22,640 --> 00:59:24,000
different building codes and mechanical

816
00:59:24,000 --> 00:59:26,160
codes and things like that, those can be

817
00:59:26,160 --> 00:59:28,799
criminal or or or civil infraction type

818
00:59:28,799 --> 00:59:30,720
violations that may get enforced through

819
00:59:30,720 --> 00:59:33,280
the district court. Those also could be

820
00:59:33,280 --> 00:59:35,200
problems that have to be addressed

821
00:59:35,200 --> 00:59:36,880
civily through something like a public

822
00:59:36,880 --> 00:59:39,680
nuisance claim. Um, and if you don't

823
00:59:39,680 --> 00:59:41,920
have a general counsel that's kind of

824
00:59:41,920 --> 00:59:43,839
doing the civil stuff and a prosecutor

825
00:59:43,839 --> 00:59:45,119
that's kind of dealing with the criminal

826
00:59:45,119 --> 00:59:46,799
stuff and they're not talking to each

827
00:59:46,799 --> 00:59:48,720
other, it just strikes me that there

828
00:59:48,720 --> 00:59:50,400
could be there could be real value to

829
00:59:50,400 --> 00:59:52,400
the collaboration that can occur when

830
00:59:52,400 --> 00:59:54,640
you have uh those sort of functions

831
00:59:54,640 --> 00:59:56,319
combined.

832
00:59:56,319 --> 00:59:58,079
>> Okay.

833
00:59:58,079 --> 01:00:00,079
Anything else from council?

834
01:00:00,079 --> 01:00:02,480
>> I won't take that personally. Uh

835
01:00:02,480 --> 01:00:06,950
laughing at me, I'm sure, but [laughter]

836
01:00:06,960 --> 01:00:08,160
she's trying to Go ahead.

837
01:00:08,160 --> 01:00:10,160
>> Um and and then just the closing thought

838
01:00:10,160 --> 01:00:12,240
I would share I suppose is just our

839
01:00:12,240 --> 01:00:14,400
again um not to sound like a broken

840
01:00:14,400 --> 01:00:16,640
record but just our focus on community.

841
01:00:16,640 --> 01:00:20,079
Um you know that if we're if we're

842
01:00:20,079 --> 01:00:21,119
retained and maybe even if we're not

843
01:00:21,119 --> 01:00:22,480
retained quite frankly I'm in the area

844
01:00:22,480 --> 01:00:25,680
enough um but you're going to see us in your

845
01:00:25,680 --> 01:00:27,119
community. You're going to see us at

846
01:00:27,119 --> 01:00:29,520
city events, uh, you know, police

847
01:00:29,520 --> 01:00:31,599
fundraisers to the extent you have them,

848
01:00:31,599 --> 01:00:33,119
chamber events, those sorts of things

849
01:00:33,119 --> 01:00:34,480
because that's the type of people that

850
01:00:34,480 --> 01:00:36,240
we are and those are the relationships

851
01:00:36,240 --> 01:00:37,920
that we want to have with our clients,

852
01:00:37,920 --> 01:00:39,760
right? Where maybe you start a client

853
01:00:39,760 --> 01:00:41,440
and and you sort of develop a

854
01:00:41,440 --> 01:00:43,119
professional relationship and maybe even

855
01:00:43,119 --> 01:00:46,160
over time um, it becomes closer.

856
01:00:46,160 --> 01:00:48,640
>> Okay. Well, we appreciate you coming out

857
01:00:48,640 --> 01:00:49,440
tonight.

858
01:00:49,440 --> 01:00:50,880
>> Well, thank you very much for having us.

859
01:00:50,880 --> 01:00:53,200
We, you know, hope to see the next phase

860
01:00:53,200 --> 01:00:53,839
of the process.

861
01:00:53,839 --> 01:00:56,720
>> Thank you for being last first. Yeah.

862
01:00:56,720 --> 01:00:59,119
>> Thank you.

863
01:00:59,119 --> 01:01:00,559
>> Okay, we're going to take a five minute

864
01:01:00,559 --> 01:04:46,549
break.

865
01:04:46,559 --> 01:04:49,280
Okay, we're off to the next one. This is

866
01:04:49,280 --> 01:04:53,280
um G Marco Mullins and Horton. Uh if you

867
01:04:53,280 --> 01:04:55,760
want to introduce yourself to begin

868
01:04:55,760 --> 01:04:57,839
with. Uh good afternoon, mayor, mayor

869
01:04:57,839 --> 01:05:01,520
promp council, city manager, city clerk,

870
01:05:01,520 --> 01:05:04,400
chief. Uh my name is Carrie Miller. Um

871
01:05:04,400 --> 01:05:08,319
and I am your current city prosecutor.

872
01:05:08,319 --> 01:05:10,960
So it's very nice to see you guys. Um

873
01:05:10,960 --> 01:05:13,920
I'm uh with GM Marco Mullins and Horton.

874
01:05:13,920 --> 01:05:16,480
I've been with them for 10 years. I

875
01:05:16,480 --> 01:05:18,400
believe I've been your city prosecutor

876
01:05:18,400 --> 01:05:23,680
for eight, maybe nine. um been through

877
01:05:23,680 --> 01:05:27,520
two judges, four building officials,

878
01:05:27,520 --> 01:05:30,319
three city managers,

879
01:05:30,319 --> 01:05:34,799
two judges, I say that. Um so yeah, two

880
01:05:34,799 --> 01:05:38,240
chiefs of police and two court

881
01:05:38,240 --> 01:05:39,760
administrators,

882
01:05:39,760 --> 01:05:42,640
some different faces on council. Um but

883
01:05:42,640 --> 01:05:45,039
it's nice to see you all tonight. So

884
01:05:45,039 --> 01:05:48,240
that's uh that's me.

885
01:05:48,240 --> 01:05:51,119
>> Okay. Um,

886
01:05:51,119 --> 01:05:52,720
you want to give us some of your

887
01:05:52,720 --> 01:05:54,880
professional bio years of relevant

888
01:05:54,880 --> 01:05:58,240
experience, which you just did. Um,

889
01:05:58,240 --> 01:06:00,000
>> how many other municipalities you

890
01:06:00,000 --> 01:06:01,839
currently serve, availability per the

891
01:06:01,839 --> 01:06:04,160
judge's request, and backup when

892
01:06:04,160 --> 01:06:05,680
necessary, and hourly rate.

893
01:06:05,680 --> 01:06:06,720
>> Sure. which

894
01:06:06,720 --> 01:06:11,039
>> um so I became a lawyer in 2004

895
01:06:11,039 --> 01:06:14,319
and I immediately started clerking for a

896
01:06:14,319 --> 01:06:16,559
judge at circuit court in Oakland County

897
01:06:16,559 --> 01:06:19,520
who was uh Ed Snaznik who is an amazing

898
01:06:19,520 --> 01:06:21,200
human being who passed away a couple

899
01:06:21,200 --> 01:06:22,880
years ago which is really unfortunate

900
01:06:22,880 --> 01:06:24,240
because he left quite a mark on the

901
01:06:24,240 --> 01:06:26,799
legal profession. Um when I was working

902
01:06:26,799 --> 01:06:29,280
for him he had been a prosecutor and

903
01:06:29,280 --> 01:06:31,119
then he became a judge at the 48th

904
01:06:31,119 --> 01:06:32,880
district court and then circuit court.

905
01:06:32,880 --> 01:06:35,920
So, um, he inspired me to go into

906
01:06:35,920 --> 01:06:37,920
prosecution. Criminal law was my

907
01:06:37,920 --> 01:06:40,720
favorite class in law school. So, I went

908
01:06:40,720 --> 01:06:43,760
right from clerking into prosecution in

909
01:06:43,760 --> 01:06:47,039
2006 and have done nothing else for 20

910
01:06:47,039 --> 01:06:50,799
years um, in law but that. Um, so I went

911
01:06:50,799 --> 01:06:52,400
to the Oakland County Prosecutor's

912
01:06:52,400 --> 01:06:55,680
Office where I was at for 15 years. I

913
01:06:55,680 --> 01:06:58,079
started out in the warrants division and

914
01:06:58,079 --> 01:07:00,880
worked all the way up to um, felony

915
01:07:00,880 --> 01:07:04,000
court. um tried drug cases, child abuse

916
01:07:04,000 --> 01:07:07,839
cases, juvenile cases, uh general cases,

917
01:07:07,839 --> 01:07:09,760
wrote warrants on everything. I was in

918
01:07:09,760 --> 01:07:11,920
the forfeite division for quite some

919
01:07:11,920 --> 01:07:15,520
time. Um so I did that for um a long

920
01:07:15,520 --> 01:07:18,240
time and then I decided that I would go

921
01:07:18,240 --> 01:07:20,559
into private practice. Was lucky enough

922
01:07:20,559 --> 01:07:23,440
to be hired by uh GMH

923
01:07:23,440 --> 01:07:28,720
in 2018 and so I started there and um my

924
01:07:28,720 --> 01:07:30,799
first big client there was the city of

925
01:07:30,799 --> 01:07:33,760
Pontiac um which was was pretty large

926
01:07:33,760 --> 01:07:35,440
and I was used to that one because that

927
01:07:35,440 --> 01:07:38,000
was in Oakland County. So then um I

928
01:07:38,000 --> 01:07:40,240
started to get contracts outside of

929
01:07:40,240 --> 01:07:42,160
Oakland County and got to practice in

930
01:07:42,160 --> 01:07:43,760
Wayne County for the first time which

931
01:07:43,760 --> 01:07:47,039
was um a whole new world and uh one of

932
01:07:47,039 --> 01:07:49,760
my first ones was the city of Wayne. Uh

933
01:07:49,760 --> 01:07:53,680
so I was here before COVID. Um, so that

934
01:07:53,680 --> 01:07:55,359
was really interesting and Judge Mack

935
01:07:55,359 --> 01:07:57,200
was here and we were in person and

936
01:07:57,200 --> 01:08:00,480
everything was in person and then um,

937
01:08:00,480 --> 01:08:03,200
COVID happened and I was at that time I

938
01:08:03,200 --> 01:08:07,520
was prosecuting for Redford for Wayne

939
01:08:07,520 --> 01:08:11,920
uh, Belleville Pontiac and so we had to

940
01:08:11,920 --> 01:08:15,599
pivot and uh, take COVID and learn how

941
01:08:15,599 --> 01:08:18,880
to do court via Zoom and a whole

942
01:08:18,880 --> 01:08:20,719
different world and changing everything

943
01:08:20,719 --> 01:08:23,920
from meeting one-on-one with people to

944
01:08:23,920 --> 01:08:26,799
um virtually and learning how to work

945
01:08:26,799 --> 01:08:29,199
Zoom. At that time we were doing trials

946
01:08:29,199 --> 01:08:32,159
by Zoom and um just a whole different

947
01:08:32,159 --> 01:08:34,400
world from the practice that I had had

948
01:08:34,400 --> 01:08:38,080
for such a long time. And then um

949
01:08:38,080 --> 01:08:40,560
transitioning back into now kind of like

950
01:08:40,560 --> 01:08:44,319
a quasi in-person Zoom reality that

951
01:08:44,319 --> 01:08:46,480
we're in now where some things are um

952
01:08:46,480 --> 01:08:49,120
but we're back in the courtroom. So, um,

953
01:08:49,120 --> 01:08:51,759
currently right now, uh, I'm doing the

954
01:08:51,759 --> 01:08:55,520
city of Wayne and then, um, I am doing

955
01:08:55,520 --> 01:08:59,359
Ly Gorian, uh, Keo Harbor,

956
01:08:59,359 --> 01:09:01,520
Gross Point,

957
01:09:01,520 --> 01:09:06,159
and, uh, Redford. I back up Redford.

958
01:09:06,159 --> 01:09:10,239
My firm uh, has a whole list of other

959
01:09:10,239 --> 01:09:13,600
um, municipalities. I think um you're

960
01:09:13,600 --> 01:09:15,440
familiar with a lot of them from knowing

961
01:09:15,440 --> 01:09:18,319
us for as long as you have. Um but we're

962
01:09:18,319 --> 01:09:20,560
general counsel for quite a long list.

963
01:09:20,560 --> 01:09:24,080
And uh we also do prosecutions for

964
01:09:24,080 --> 01:09:28,319
Seline and uh Northville. I think I

965
01:09:28,319 --> 01:09:30,560
think that's our current full list, but

966
01:09:30,560 --> 01:09:32,960
I I may be leaving out a prosecution

967
01:09:32,960 --> 01:09:36,149
docket.

968
01:09:36,159 --> 01:09:37,920
» Okay.

969
01:09:37,920 --> 01:09:39,839
And I I I know the answer. I'm going to

970
01:09:39,839 --> 01:09:40,960
ask you the question because I got to

971
01:09:40,960 --> 01:09:43,839
ask everybody the same questions. So, if

972
01:09:43,839 --> 01:09:45,600
your firm uh was able to provide

973
01:09:45,600 --> 01:09:48,880
prosecutional services uh for the 29th

974
01:09:48,880 --> 01:09:51,279
District Criminal Dockets every two a

975
01:09:51,279 --> 01:09:53,759
week, Tuesday from 8:00 a.m. to noon and

976
01:09:53,759 --> 01:09:56,640
one Monday a month at 8:00 a.m. noon to

977
01:09:56,640 --> 01:09:59,760
noon. Um and jury trials are held on

978
01:09:59,760 --> 01:10:02,320
Thursdays or Fridays when necessary.

979
01:10:02,320 --> 01:10:04,239
It's imperative that our city's legal

980
01:10:04,239 --> 01:10:06,000
representation be able to offer

981
01:10:06,000 --> 01:10:07,600
sufficient staffing to cover these

982
01:10:07,600 --> 01:10:10,080
dockets that you're you're able to do

983
01:10:10,080 --> 01:10:10,960
all that.

984
01:10:10,960 --> 01:10:12,719
>> Yeah, there's two bench trial dockets on

985
01:10:12,719 --> 01:10:15,199
Thursday afternoons a month as well. Uh,

986
01:10:15,199 --> 01:10:16,800
one of them is Zoom and one of them is

987
01:10:16,800 --> 01:10:19,679
in person. So, uh, yeah, they're in my

988
01:10:19,679 --> 01:10:20,640
schedule.

989
01:10:20,640 --> 01:10:22,239
>> Okay.

990
01:10:22,239 --> 01:10:26,400
Uh, Councilwoman Lawrence

991
01:10:26,400 --> 01:10:29,520
and please let's just try to stay we

992
01:10:29,520 --> 01:10:30,880
want to stay with the same questions for

993
01:10:30,880 --> 01:10:35,280
everybody to be in the same

994
01:10:35,280 --> 01:10:37,280
>> All right.

995
01:10:37,280 --> 01:10:39,920
Um, define discretion as it appeals to

996
01:10:39,920 --> 01:10:42,080
your role as a city prosecutor. How

997
01:10:42,080 --> 01:10:44,320
would you use this discretion?

998
01:10:44,320 --> 01:10:47,760
>> So I think um as a role of a prosecutor

999
01:10:47,760 --> 01:10:50,960
uh ethics is the most important thing is

1000
01:10:50,960 --> 01:10:54,640
being ethical. So, you have to use

1001
01:10:54,640 --> 01:10:57,199
discretion. Um, one of the biggest

1002
01:10:57,199 --> 01:11:00,719
things that I do is review warrants and

1003
01:11:00,719 --> 01:11:03,199
you've got to look at them and decide

1004
01:11:03,199 --> 01:11:05,600
whether or not there's probable cause.

1005
01:11:05,600 --> 01:11:07,040
But when I'm looking at a warrant, I

1006
01:11:07,040 --> 01:11:09,040
actually kind of go a little further and

1007
01:11:09,040 --> 01:11:13,120
try to decide if if I really can try it

1008
01:11:13,120 --> 01:11:15,280
beyond a reasonable doubt. I mean, I you

1009
01:11:15,280 --> 01:11:17,040
only need a probable cause to write it,

1010
01:11:17,040 --> 01:11:20,560
but um and if there isn't, I have no

1011
01:11:20,560 --> 01:11:24,400
problem denying a warrant, and I I will

1012
01:11:24,400 --> 01:11:26,159
deny a warrant, and I and I will happily

1013
01:11:26,159 --> 01:11:28,000
talk to a police officer about why.

1014
01:11:28,000 --> 01:11:29,679
Sometimes, um there's even an

1015
01:11:29,679 --> 01:11:33,120
educational aspect to that. Um as far as

1016
01:11:33,120 --> 01:11:36,239
in the courtroom goes, uh discretion is

1017
01:11:36,239 --> 01:11:38,000
a big part of the job. You know what,

1018
01:11:38,000 --> 01:11:41,040
you have to take it's case by case. Um,

1019
01:11:41,040 --> 01:11:42,239
which I think you're going to hear from

1020
01:11:42,239 --> 01:11:44,239
any good lawyer or good prosecutor

1021
01:11:44,239 --> 01:11:46,880
because that's the truth. Um, but you

1022
01:11:46,880 --> 01:11:50,480
have to take every every case as it is

1023
01:11:50,480 --> 01:11:52,800
and make a decision whether you've got

1024
01:11:52,800 --> 01:11:55,840
good facts and um how you want to

1025
01:11:55,840 --> 01:11:57,440
approach it because there's a lot of

1026
01:11:57,440 --> 01:11:59,280
different ways to come come at a

1027
01:11:59,280 --> 01:12:00,880
criminal case.

1028
01:12:00,880 --> 01:12:03,280
>> Thank you. supposed to ask the same

1029
01:12:03,280 --> 01:12:04,480
question, John.

1030
01:12:04,480 --> 01:12:05,120
>> Yes,

1031
01:12:05,120 --> 01:12:06,960
>> I got them written down.

1032
01:12:06,960 --> 01:12:08,719
>> I think mine was number 12, right? All

1033
01:12:08,719 --> 01:12:10,560
right. Let's see. Number 11.

1034
01:12:10,560 --> 01:12:11,040
>> Yep.

1035
01:12:11,040 --> 01:12:17,350
>> All right.

1036
01:12:17,360 --> 01:12:20,080
Can you can you provide a

1037
01:12:20,080 --> 01:12:21,440
breakdown of your experience with

1038
01:12:21,440 --> 01:12:23,120
residential, commercial, industrial

1039
01:12:23,120 --> 01:12:26,320
compliance, such as occupying buildings

1040
01:12:26,320 --> 01:12:29,280
without a CFO and inspections right to

1041
01:12:29,280 --> 01:12:30,560
entry?

1042
01:12:30,560 --> 01:12:32,000
>> Yeah. So, that's actually really

1043
01:12:32,000 --> 01:12:34,239
interesting because I um that was brand

1044
01:12:34,239 --> 01:12:36,480
new for me when I left the prosecutor's

1045
01:12:36,480 --> 01:12:38,080
office. When I was at the prosecutor's

1046
01:12:38,080 --> 01:12:41,199
office, uh it was only criminal law that

1047
01:12:41,199 --> 01:12:42,719
we did. And then when I when I did

1048
01:12:42,719 --> 01:12:44,960
forfeite, it was quasi civil and

1049
01:12:44,960 --> 01:12:47,280
criminal, but it was all drugrelated. Um

1050
01:12:47,280 --> 01:12:50,080
so, I had not

1051
01:12:50,080 --> 01:12:53,520
worked with building codes at all except

1052
01:12:53,520 --> 01:12:55,840
for, you know, things at my own house

1053
01:12:55,840 --> 01:12:57,280
and trying to get permits and things

1054
01:12:57,280 --> 01:13:00,080
like that. Um, so it was a really big

1055
01:13:00,080 --> 01:13:03,120
education to start to learn about um the

1056
01:13:03,120 --> 01:13:05,120
building codes and things like that. But

1057
01:13:05,120 --> 01:13:07,360
in every single one of the municipal

1058
01:13:07,360 --> 01:13:09,360
contracts that we have, there's a

1059
01:13:09,360 --> 01:13:12,000
building aspect to them. So, I've become

1060
01:13:12,000 --> 01:13:14,880
a lot more comfortable um over the years

1061
01:13:14,880 --> 01:13:17,440
in in understanding that, working with

1062
01:13:17,440 --> 01:13:19,920
the building officials, um understanding

1063
01:13:19,920 --> 01:13:22,400
the building code, understanding kind of

1064
01:13:22,400 --> 01:13:24,320
the difference, you know, um in a

1065
01:13:24,320 --> 01:13:27,120
criminal case, you want um there's a

1066
01:13:27,120 --> 01:13:28,960
punitive aspect to it, there's a

1067
01:13:28,960 --> 01:13:30,640
punishment aspect to it, you know, there

1068
01:13:30,640 --> 01:13:33,360
really is. And in a building department

1069
01:13:33,360 --> 01:13:36,400
case, it's really

1070
01:13:36,400 --> 01:13:39,360
more of a compliance aspect, you know,

1071
01:13:39,360 --> 01:13:41,920
and you're looking for them to to com to

1072
01:13:41,920 --> 01:13:45,199
comply and come into code. Um, I mean, I

1073
01:13:45,199 --> 01:13:46,480
guess sometimes there could be a, you

1074
01:13:46,480 --> 01:13:47,920
know, a punishment if someone is really

1075
01:13:47,920 --> 01:13:49,440
egregious or doing something terrible,

1076
01:13:49,440 --> 01:13:51,360
but it's just something different. Um,

1077
01:13:51,360 --> 01:13:54,640
so it was some uh a a big education, but

1078
01:13:54,640 --> 01:13:57,760
I think I've over the last 10 years

1079
01:13:57,760 --> 01:13:59,600
become very very comfortable working

1080
01:13:59,600 --> 01:14:00,800
with the building department and

1081
01:14:00,800 --> 01:14:04,390
building codes.

1082
01:14:04,400 --> 01:14:06,560
» At what point when you're looking at

1083
01:14:06,560 --> 01:14:08,719
compliance do you decide that it you

1084
01:14:08,719 --> 01:14:10,000
need to go further because they're not

1085
01:14:10,000 --> 01:14:12,239
complying? What what's the what's the

1086
01:14:12,239 --> 01:14:14,480
parameter? How long do you wait on stuff

1087
01:14:14,480 --> 01:14:17,679
like that? So, I think it depends on how

1088
01:14:17,679 --> 01:14:20,080
serious of a situation obviously you're

1089
01:14:20,080 --> 01:14:21,840
dealing with, you know. So, in a

1090
01:14:21,840 --> 01:14:23,760
building department case, you can have

1091
01:14:23,760 --> 01:14:26,960
everything from um a a very very

1092
01:14:26,960 --> 01:14:28,560
dangerous building, which we all know

1093
01:14:28,560 --> 01:14:31,840
we've had, um to somebody who's not

1094
01:14:31,840 --> 01:14:33,360
cutting their grass or they're not

1095
01:14:33,360 --> 01:14:35,360
bringing in their garbage cans and

1096
01:14:35,360 --> 01:14:37,920
everything in between. So, you really

1097
01:14:37,920 --> 01:14:39,199
have to take a look at what you're

1098
01:14:39,199 --> 01:14:41,840
dealing with. Um, at first I think

1099
01:14:41,840 --> 01:14:45,120
compliance is is the first step no

1100
01:14:45,120 --> 01:14:46,960
matter what, you know, and and can they

1101
01:14:46,960 --> 01:14:48,800
is it possible? Can they even come into

1102
01:14:48,800 --> 01:14:50,960
compliance? Is that even something that

1103
01:14:50,960 --> 01:14:52,719
we can talk about? Because compliance

1104
01:14:52,719 --> 01:14:56,080
could be $5 million, but someone may

1105
01:14:56,080 --> 01:14:59,600
actually have that. Um, so initially

1106
01:14:59,600 --> 01:15:02,080
definitely compliance. Um, the way that

1107
01:15:02,080 --> 01:15:06,480
I handle most building cases is um to do

1108
01:15:06,480 --> 01:15:08,000
uh what's called a plea under

1109
01:15:08,000 --> 01:15:11,360
advisement. And so the defendant would

1110
01:15:11,360 --> 01:15:13,840
admit responsibility that they did

1111
01:15:13,840 --> 01:15:15,679
indeed commit that building code

1112
01:15:15,679 --> 01:15:17,440
violation and then they would get a

1113
01:15:17,440 --> 01:15:19,040
certain amount of time to come into

1114
01:15:19,040 --> 01:15:21,199
compliance and they would have review

1115
01:15:21,199 --> 01:15:24,000
hearings um that we would keep an eye on

1116
01:15:24,000 --> 01:15:25,920
them and then that criminal charge

1117
01:15:25,920 --> 01:15:27,840
because as you guys know most of your

1118
01:15:27,840 --> 01:15:31,280
cases um the building codes are still

1119
01:15:31,280 --> 01:15:33,520
misdemeanors and a lot of cities have

1120
01:15:33,520 --> 01:15:35,040
moved towards municipal civil

1121
01:15:35,040 --> 01:15:36,719
infractions but in Wayne the vast

1122
01:15:36,719 --> 01:15:38,880
majority of them are misdemeanors. So,

1123
01:15:38,880 --> 01:15:41,040
you actually have a criminal conviction

1124
01:15:41,040 --> 01:15:42,800
that you can hang over people's heads.

1125
01:15:42,800 --> 01:15:44,400
And people care about that. You know,

1126
01:15:44,400 --> 01:15:45,760
he'll stand in the way of them getting

1127
01:15:45,760 --> 01:15:48,320
jobs or um being able to be, you know,

1128
01:15:48,320 --> 01:15:49,760
going to their children's school, things

1129
01:15:49,760 --> 01:15:52,320
like that. So, I can kind of hold that

1130
01:15:52,320 --> 01:15:55,679
over their head and keep that going. And

1131
01:15:55,679 --> 01:15:57,760
then there's fines and costs that are

1132
01:15:57,760 --> 01:15:59,600
associated with that and keep their case

1133
01:15:59,600 --> 01:16:02,159
open. So, that's usually my number one

1134
01:16:02,159 --> 01:16:03,840
way of handling a building department

1135
01:16:03,840 --> 01:16:06,880
case. Um, sometimes you can dismiss it

1136
01:16:06,880 --> 01:16:08,560
uh earlier if they come like a grass

1137
01:16:08,560 --> 01:16:10,320
case, like a long grass case. If they

1138
01:16:10,320 --> 01:16:12,080
come in and they've cut their grass,

1139
01:16:12,080 --> 01:16:13,520
maybe you could just do like a double

1140
01:16:13,520 --> 01:16:17,360
parking fine for $180 and then just let

1141
01:16:17,360 --> 01:16:19,679
them move on because they took care of

1142
01:16:19,679 --> 01:16:23,440
it right away immediately. Um, obviously

1143
01:16:23,440 --> 01:16:25,600
other cases are different. I mean, I've

1144
01:16:25,600 --> 01:16:28,080
had trials on building department cases.

1145
01:16:28,080 --> 01:16:30,320
I've done um administrative search

1146
01:16:30,320 --> 01:16:32,080
warrants here on building department

1147
01:16:32,080 --> 01:16:35,600
cases. Um, so

1148
01:16:35,600 --> 01:16:39,040
sometimes you need to take it to a

1149
01:16:39,040 --> 01:16:41,120
different level and we've done that here

1150
01:16:41,120 --> 01:16:42,800
and I I have no problem doing that

1151
01:16:42,800 --> 01:16:44,159
again.

1152
01:16:44,159 --> 01:16:46,560
>> Okay. I may have missed it. You may have

1153
01:16:46,560 --> 01:16:48,880
told me this. What is the hourly rate

1154
01:16:48,880 --> 01:16:49,920
that you guys

1155
01:16:49,920 --> 01:16:52,640
>> So we have not raised our rates since we

1156
01:16:52,640 --> 01:16:56,159
first came in um eight or nine years ago

1157
01:16:56,159 --> 01:16:58,960
I think. Not at all. Uh but we have

1158
01:16:58,960 --> 01:17:01,760
suggested a a raise um with this with

1159
01:17:01,760 --> 01:17:06,000
this uh bidding process to um $150 an

1160
01:17:06,000 --> 01:17:08,400
hour. I think it was 125.

1161
01:17:08,400 --> 01:17:09,920
>> Okay.

1162
01:17:09,920 --> 01:17:17,189
Mayor Prom,

1163
01:17:17,199 --> 01:17:21,040
» is there anything that you feel you

1164
01:17:21,040 --> 01:17:23,520
could do as city prosecutor to improve

1165
01:17:23,520 --> 01:17:26,159
the efficiency of city and court

1166
01:17:26,159 --> 01:17:30,390
operations or interactions?

1167
01:17:30,400 --> 01:17:34,880
» Oh, that's a good question. Um, so

1168
01:17:34,880 --> 01:17:37,679
you know, there there's an efficiency

1169
01:17:37,679 --> 01:17:39,600
just an efficiency thing. you know, it's

1170
01:17:39,600 --> 01:17:42,480
a communication. Um, the dockets are

1171
01:17:42,480 --> 01:17:44,640
they're they're pretty big. Uh, all

1172
01:17:44,640 --> 01:17:46,159
things considered, there's usually

1173
01:17:46,159 --> 01:17:48,960
somewhere like I figured I prosecuting

1174
01:17:48,960 --> 01:17:52,560
around 2,000 to 3,000 cases monthly, I

1175
01:17:52,560 --> 01:17:54,800
believe, like everything all together.

1176
01:17:54,800 --> 01:17:57,760
Um, so, you know, you got to do a lot of

1177
01:17:57,760 --> 01:18:02,320
preparation work. Um, which I do. Uh, be

1178
01:18:02,320 --> 01:18:04,800
uh try to get things done in advance, be

1179
01:18:04,800 --> 01:18:07,600
communicating with the clerks, uh, be on

1180
01:18:07,600 --> 01:18:09,760
time. um just a lot of communication,

1181
01:18:09,760 --> 01:18:13,280
but the court here is a very wellrun

1182
01:18:13,280 --> 01:18:16,239
court. Um the staff is excellent. Uh the

1183
01:18:16,239 --> 01:18:17,760
clerks are really good, the court

1184
01:18:17,760 --> 01:18:20,800
administrator is great. Um so they they

1185
01:18:20,800 --> 01:18:23,600
get me what I need. Um so as far as the

1186
01:18:23,600 --> 01:18:26,640
court goes as the prosecutor, um it's

1187
01:18:26,640 --> 01:18:29,199
just a matter of prepping the docket in

1188
01:18:29,199 --> 01:18:33,040
advance and sending that out and um I do

1189
01:18:33,040 --> 01:18:35,760
that a week in advance every every week.

1190
01:18:35,760 --> 01:18:37,120
So,

1191
01:18:37,120 --> 01:18:37,840
>> thank you.

1192
01:18:37,840 --> 01:18:38,480
>> Yeah.

1193
01:18:38,480 --> 01:18:42,000
>> Okay. Are there any matters uh you would

1194
01:18:42,000 --> 01:18:45,920
or would not provide count um

1195
01:18:45,920 --> 01:18:47,760
you would or would not provide counsel

1196
01:18:47,760 --> 01:18:50,480
to the police department on?

1197
01:18:50,480 --> 01:18:53,120
>> Absolutely none.

1198
01:18:53,120 --> 01:18:55,840
>> Okay.

1199
01:18:55,840 --> 01:18:58,080
Councilman Lawrence,

1200
01:18:58,080 --> 01:19:00,560
>> how many cases have you represented with

1201
01:19:00,560 --> 01:19:02,960
the municipality regarding environmental

1202
01:19:02,960 --> 01:19:06,239
violations such as air quality, fugitive

1203
01:19:06,239 --> 01:19:09,199
dust, geotechnical reports, and various

1204
01:19:09,199 --> 01:19:12,320
soil contamination testing? Did you go

1205
01:19:12,320 --> 01:19:15,360
to trial and what were the outcomes? Not

1206
01:19:15,360 --> 01:19:19,679
too many. Um there's been uh some that

1207
01:19:19,679 --> 01:19:23,440
have had some aspects to that. Um, none

1208
01:19:23,440 --> 01:19:25,840
in none in Wayne that I can think of.

1209
01:19:25,840 --> 01:19:27,600
And no, I have never gone to trial on

1210
01:19:27,600 --> 01:19:31,750
one of those issues.

1211
01:19:31,760 --> 01:19:37,120
» Okay. Uh, Councilwoman Was.

1212
01:19:37,120 --> 01:19:38,640
>> Okay. This is going to be a twofer

1213
01:19:38,640 --> 01:19:40,880
because I kind of screwed that up, John.

1214
01:19:40,880 --> 01:19:43,440
Um, so since I know you are familiar

1215
01:19:43,440 --> 01:19:46,480
with our current legal situations,

1216
01:19:46,480 --> 01:19:48,080
what experience do you have with

1217
01:19:48,080 --> 01:19:51,920
habitual offenders andor difficult latig

1218
01:19:51,920 --> 01:19:55,120
latigious mentally ill or retaliatory

1219
01:19:55,120 --> 01:19:56,960
violators?

1220
01:19:56,960 --> 01:19:58,880
>> You know, when I was at um the Oakland

1221
01:19:58,880 --> 01:20:01,040
County Prosecutor's Office, we had

1222
01:20:01,040 --> 01:20:04,960
habitual felon felons a lot. Um, you

1223
01:20:04,960 --> 01:20:06,800
would call them like a hab second, hab

1224
01:20:06,800 --> 01:20:08,239
third, hab fourth because they were

1225
01:20:08,239 --> 01:20:10,560
habitual. So, I mean, I have experience

1226
01:20:10,560 --> 01:20:12,719
in dealing with habitual offenders that

1227
01:20:12,719 --> 01:20:19,280
goes far back. Um, on a city level, it's different. You know, city

1228
01:20:19,280 --> 01:20:21,199
prosecutions are very very different

1229
01:20:21,199 --> 01:20:23,840
than than a county level in so many so

1230
01:20:23,840 --> 01:20:25,760
many different ways. Um, because you're

1231
01:20:25,760 --> 01:20:28,800
really part of the community in a

1232
01:20:28,800 --> 01:20:32,400
different in a different way. Um, so

1233
01:20:32,400 --> 01:20:34,960
I've become very familiar with uh

1234
01:20:34,960 --> 01:20:37,280
specialty courts and mental health

1235
01:20:37,280 --> 01:20:40,800
treatment courts. veterans courts, um

1236
01:20:40,800 --> 01:20:42,800
those kind of courts that can really

1237
01:20:42,800 --> 01:20:46,960
help people and and what they can do. Um

1238
01:20:46,960 --> 01:20:49,840
and just how excellent they are. You

1239
01:20:49,840 --> 01:20:52,320
know, the mental health court uh at at

1240
01:20:52,320 --> 01:20:55,040
our court is is excellent and it's so

1241
01:20:55,040 --> 01:20:56,880
impressive. And you know, we're involved

1242
01:20:56,880 --> 01:20:59,360
in the veterans court in Redford, which

1243
01:20:59,360 --> 01:21:02,000
is equally just an impressive um

1244
01:21:02,000 --> 01:21:06,400
program. Uh as far as dealing with

1245
01:21:06,400 --> 01:21:09,040
difficult defendants,

1246
01:21:09,040 --> 01:21:13,520
um you know, it's part of the job and

1247
01:21:13,520 --> 01:21:15,920
you just do it. You know, you do the job

1248
01:21:15,920 --> 01:21:17,280
and you do it to the best of your

1249
01:21:17,280 --> 01:21:20,320
ability and you treat them and everybody

1250
01:21:20,320 --> 01:21:22,239
the same way that you would treat any

1251
01:21:22,239 --> 01:21:25,280
other defendant, any other case. you

1252
01:21:25,280 --> 01:21:27,920
know, I use the same discretion. Um, I

1253
01:21:27,920 --> 01:21:31,280
try to be equally fair and reasonable.

1254
01:21:31,280 --> 01:21:33,600
Um, and I think I am a very fair and

1255
01:21:33,600 --> 01:21:36,640
reasonable prosecutor. Um, so I do the

1256
01:21:36,640 --> 01:21:39,280
same thing, um, that I would with

1257
01:21:39,280 --> 01:21:43,199
anybody else. Obviously, uh, it can be a

1258
01:21:43,199 --> 01:21:48,159
challenge, you know. Um but yeah, you

1259
01:21:48,159 --> 01:21:50,400
just got to keep doing the job and try

1260
01:21:50,400 --> 01:21:53,280
to get a team with you to help you and

1261
01:21:53,280 --> 01:21:56,480
um work together.

1262
01:21:56,480 --> 01:22:00,310
>> Thank you.

1263
01:22:00,320 --> 01:22:04,070
» Your pro.

1264
01:22:04,080 --> 01:22:06,639
» This is a set of yes and uh no uh

1265
01:22:06,639 --> 01:22:08,639
responses, right? One question is going

1266
01:22:08,639 --> 01:22:11,679
to be all little things in there. And um

1267
01:22:11,679 --> 01:22:15,520
so here we go. Uh do you have Uh, what

1268
01:22:15,520 --> 01:22:17,040
experience? Okay, it's going to be yes

1269
01:22:17,040 --> 01:22:19,679
or no. Uh, do you have uh experience

1270
01:22:19,679 --> 01:22:22,159
interpreting and enforcing the following

1271
01:22:22,159 --> 01:22:24,400
uh codes? Michigan building code?

1272
01:22:24,400 --> 01:22:25,520
>> Yes.

1273
01:22:25,520 --> 01:22:27,040
>> Residential code?

1274
01:22:27,040 --> 01:22:27,520
>> Yes.

1275
01:22:27,520 --> 01:22:28,800
>> Mechanical code?

1276
01:22:28,800 --> 01:22:29,440
>> Yes.

1277
01:22:29,440 --> 01:22:30,800
>> Plumbing code?

1278
01:22:30,800 --> 01:22:31,360
>> Yes.

1279
01:22:31,360 --> 01:22:32,320
>> Electrical code?

1280
01:22:32,320 --> 01:22:32,960
>> Yes.

1281
01:22:32,960 --> 01:22:33,920
>> Fire code?

1282
01:22:33,920 --> 01:22:34,560
>> Yes.

1283
01:22:34,560 --> 01:22:35,920
>> Property maintenance code?

1284
01:22:35,920 --> 01:22:36,639
>> Yes.

1285
01:22:36,639 --> 01:22:38,560
>> Thank you.

1286
01:22:38,560 --> 01:22:40,880
>> Sure.

1287
01:22:40,880 --> 01:22:43,760
>> Okay. So,

1288
01:22:43,760 --> 01:22:46,719
what do you see or what do you think the

1289
01:22:46,719 --> 01:22:51,120
role of the city prosecutor is?

1290
01:22:51,120 --> 01:22:54,719
>> So, it's interesting because you're a

1291
01:22:54,719 --> 01:22:56,639
lot of times as a city prosecutor,

1292
01:22:56,639 --> 01:22:59,280
you're dealing with citizens. Um, it's

1293
01:22:59,280 --> 01:23:02,159
not all, you know, horrible crimes or

1294
01:23:02,159 --> 01:23:05,120
habitual. A lot of times it's uh traffic

1295
01:23:05,120 --> 01:23:08,159
tickets and it's you know speeding

1296
01:23:08,159 --> 01:23:10,320
tickets or like I said it's somebody who

1297
01:23:10,320 --> 01:23:12,560
isn't taking out their trash or you know

1298
01:23:12,560 --> 01:23:14,800
so you can really be like a face of the

1299
01:23:14,800 --> 01:23:17,920
community and sort of get to uh know

1300
01:23:17,920 --> 01:23:21,120
citizens and talk to people um be part

1301
01:23:21,120 --> 01:23:23,440
of a community which I which I think is

1302
01:23:23,440 --> 01:23:25,760
really important. Um but then you have

1303
01:23:25,760 --> 01:23:28,080
the other level of a relationship with

1304
01:23:28,080 --> 01:23:30,639
the police department which I really

1305
01:23:30,639 --> 01:23:32,560
pride myself on. Um, you have an

1306
01:23:32,560 --> 01:23:35,040
excellent police department here. Um,

1307
01:23:35,040 --> 01:23:37,120
you have an excellent police chief,

1308
01:23:37,120 --> 01:23:40,159
excellent lieutenants, um, an excellent

1309
01:23:40,159 --> 01:23:43,679
deputy chief, amazing officers. Um, a

1310
01:23:43,679 --> 01:23:45,440
lot of turnover, a lot of young officers

1311
01:23:45,440 --> 01:23:48,560
that are coming in. Um, but I I pride

1312
01:23:48,560 --> 01:23:51,199
myself on having a relationship because

1313
01:23:51,199 --> 01:23:53,760
really another goal is safety of the

1314
01:23:53,760 --> 01:23:56,400
community. And as a city prosecutor, you

1315
01:23:56,400 --> 01:23:58,400
know, that's a boots on the ground kind

1316
01:23:58,400 --> 01:24:00,800
of role is um you know, making sure that

1317
01:24:00,800 --> 01:24:02,400
people are are safe and having a

1318
01:24:02,400 --> 01:24:03,920
relationship. I think that the city

1319
01:24:03,920 --> 01:24:06,320
prosecutor needs to work very very

1320
01:24:06,320 --> 01:24:09,040
closely with the police department. Um

1321
01:24:09,040 --> 01:24:12,480
and I I do um they all have my phone

1322
01:24:12,480 --> 01:24:15,120
number. I've talked to the the chief as

1323
01:24:15,120 --> 01:24:16,560
early as 7 o'clock in the morning, as

1324
01:24:16,560 --> 01:24:18,719
late as 9:00 at night. Same with the

1325
01:24:18,719 --> 01:24:21,280
deputy chief. A lot of the officers um

1326
01:24:21,280 --> 01:24:23,679
same with on the weekends. uh they call

1327
01:24:23,679 --> 01:24:25,360
me sometimes because they can't get a

1328
01:24:25,360 --> 01:24:27,360
hold of their county prosecutor to sign

1329
01:24:27,360 --> 01:24:29,520
for a search warrant and they can get a

1330
01:24:29,520 --> 01:24:32,560
hold of me. Um so they do uh I will

1331
01:24:32,560 --> 01:24:34,719
answer the phone for those guys um and

1332
01:24:34,719 --> 01:24:38,320
women uh anytime um on on vacation or

1333
01:24:38,320 --> 01:24:40,960
anything. So, I think it's relationships

1334
01:24:40,960 --> 01:24:43,760
uh with the police, safety, and then

1335
01:24:43,760 --> 01:24:46,080
just um also, you know, you can have a

1336
01:24:46,080 --> 01:24:47,679
positive role like I was saying like

1337
01:24:47,679 --> 01:24:49,360
with, you know, some people that just

1338
01:24:49,360 --> 01:24:51,280
have never come to court before and

1339
01:24:51,280 --> 01:24:52,800
they're coming because they have a

1340
01:24:52,800 --> 01:24:54,719
speeding ticket or something and you

1341
01:24:54,719 --> 01:24:57,760
know, you can have a a a good, you know,

1342
01:24:57,760 --> 01:24:59,600
it's not the it's not a major crime,

1343
01:24:59,600 --> 01:25:01,760
it's a speeding ticket and show them a

1344
01:25:01,760 --> 01:25:04,000
good experience uh at their court and

1345
01:25:04,000 --> 01:25:05,360
dealing with their their local

1346
01:25:05,360 --> 01:25:08,000
prosecutor.

1347
01:25:08,000 --> 01:25:10,080
Okay,

1348
01:25:10,080 --> 01:25:13,360
I think that's all for questions

1349
01:25:13,360 --> 01:25:15,679
>> that we did.

1350
01:25:15,679 --> 01:25:27,750
>> What was that?

1351
01:25:27,760 --> 01:25:29,760
» You want to say it?

1352
01:25:29,760 --> 01:25:30,639
>> Do you want to say it?

1353
01:25:30,639 --> 01:25:32,639
>> Go ahead. Do it.

1354
01:25:32,639 --> 01:25:35,040
>> Um, I don't know if I'm gonna say it

1355
01:25:35,040 --> 01:25:36,560
right, John. So, I might need you to

1356
01:25:36,560 --> 01:25:37,040
chime in.

1357
01:25:37,040 --> 01:25:37,600
>> Yep. That's

1358
01:25:37,600 --> 01:25:39,440
>> If hired,

1359
01:25:39,440 --> 01:25:44,239
will you review the cases? Oh, well,

1360
01:25:44,239 --> 01:25:46,000
review the cases we have and advise us,

1361
01:25:46,000 --> 01:25:48,239
but

1362
01:25:48,239 --> 01:25:50,000
>> I think it was for ordinances, right?

1363
01:25:50,000 --> 01:25:51,440
>> Oh, yeah. Yeah.

1364
01:25:51,440 --> 01:25:53,120
>> There was review and advise on.

1365
01:25:53,120 --> 01:25:54,480
>> So, we have a lot of different

1366
01:25:54,480 --> 01:25:56,320
ordinances and everything. What are your

1367
01:25:56,320 --> 01:25:57,840
thoughts about reviewing looking through

1368
01:25:57,840 --> 01:25:59,040
that stuff and seeing if there's things

1369
01:25:59,040 --> 01:26:01,600
that we need to improve on? Do you do

1370
01:26:01,600 --> 01:26:03,440
you look at things or, you know, how

1371
01:26:03,440 --> 01:26:04,800
things have been written? Is there

1372
01:26:04,800 --> 01:26:06,639
problems with stuff? Do you see, you

1373
01:26:06,639 --> 01:26:10,960
know, do are things good or bad? What do you recommend? What would you

1374
01:26:10,960 --> 01:26:11,760
recommend?

1375
01:26:11,760 --> 01:26:13,280
>> Criminal ordinances, building

1376
01:26:13,280 --> 01:26:14,639
ordinances, both

1377
01:26:14,639 --> 01:26:15,520
>> everything, I guess.

1378
01:26:15,520 --> 01:26:18,239
>> Okay. Yeah. So, um, you know, I think

1379
01:26:18,239 --> 01:26:20,480
that some of the building code could use

1380
01:26:20,480 --> 01:26:22,880
to be rewritten in some ways. You know,

1381
01:26:22,880 --> 01:26:25,280
I think that we would be uh it'd be good

1382
01:26:25,280 --> 01:26:27,199
to have a few municipal civil

1383
01:26:27,199 --> 01:26:29,440
infractions instead of everything being

1384
01:26:29,440 --> 01:26:32,159
a misdemeanor. Uh there misdemeanor can

1385
01:26:32,159 --> 01:26:34,480
be problematic for some building co uh

1386
01:26:34,480 --> 01:26:38,480
code cases because um they uh attorneys

1387
01:26:38,480 --> 01:26:41,440
they get attorneys um appointed to them

1388
01:26:41,440 --> 01:26:44,000
and then it drags out longer in court.

1389
01:26:44,000 --> 01:26:46,000
There's a discovery process and it can

1390
01:26:46,000 --> 01:26:48,000
go on longer. They have a right to a

1391
01:26:48,000 --> 01:26:51,360
jury trial. Um, and so it will sometimes

1392
01:26:51,360 --> 01:26:53,600
take a lot longer in court because of

1393
01:26:53,600 --> 01:26:56,320
that process, which I know can be very

1394
01:26:56,320 --> 01:26:58,159
uh frustrating to the building

1395
01:26:58,159 --> 01:27:00,000
department because they feel like on

1396
01:27:00,000 --> 01:27:02,080
their end, they've already given people

1397
01:27:02,080 --> 01:27:04,320
notices and sent letters and things and

1398
01:27:04,320 --> 01:27:06,320
so they want to see it move faster, but

1399
01:27:06,320 --> 01:27:08,320
due process

1400
01:27:08,320 --> 01:27:10,480
dictates that it moves a little slower.

1401
01:27:10,480 --> 01:27:11,920
And then there's, you know, setting it

1402
01:27:11,920 --> 01:27:13,840
for trial, setting for jury trial, which

1403
01:27:13,840 --> 01:27:16,400
could take a longer time. So, if we

1404
01:27:16,400 --> 01:27:18,880
considered doing a few things more like

1405
01:27:18,880 --> 01:27:21,199
municipal civil infractions, we could

1406
01:27:21,199 --> 01:27:22,800
move those along along a little bit

1407
01:27:22,800 --> 01:27:25,040
faster because then they don't need um

1408
01:27:25,040 --> 01:27:27,440
there's no jury trial or trial. It would

1409
01:27:27,440 --> 01:27:29,440
be a formal hearing and the judge could

1410
01:27:29,440 --> 01:27:32,480
have that quickly and then um it's a

1411
01:27:32,480 --> 01:27:36,080
fine and if it's not paid uh it's put on

1412
01:27:36,080 --> 01:27:38,960
your property taxes. So, that's a um an

1413
01:27:38,960 --> 01:27:41,600
idea that we could consider. Um, some of

1414
01:27:41,600 --> 01:27:42,880
it could maybe be just used to be

1415
01:27:42,880 --> 01:27:45,040
updated a little bit. As far as the

1416
01:27:45,040 --> 01:27:47,679
criminal ordinances, um, I would just

1417
01:27:47,679 --> 01:27:50,880
like to see us add, um, and chief and I

1418
01:27:50,880 --> 01:27:52,480
have spoken about this before, but I

1419
01:27:52,480 --> 01:27:55,760
think it'd be nice to add a a high BAC,

1420
01:27:55,760 --> 01:27:59,199
um, OWI ordinance to our code. Um, right

1421
01:27:59,199 --> 01:28:01,199
now we just have a just a drunk driving

1422
01:28:01,199 --> 01:28:03,280
one, but I think it would be helpful and

1423
01:28:03,280 --> 01:28:05,760
give me some um, more leverage if we

1424
01:28:05,760 --> 01:28:09,760
added a high BAC um, which is 0.17 or

1425
01:28:09,760 --> 01:28:10,800
higher.

1426
01:28:10,800 --> 01:28:13,360
uh and and it's a different level and

1427
01:28:13,360 --> 01:28:15,600
the main thing that that brings in is a

1428
01:28:15,600 --> 01:28:18,719
different um licensing sanction. Uh so

1429
01:28:18,719 --> 01:28:20,880
uh it's still I will still have to work

1430
01:28:20,880 --> 01:28:23,440
within the 90day frame of any local

1431
01:28:23,440 --> 01:28:26,239
ordinance as far as jail time, but the

1432
01:28:26,239 --> 01:28:29,520
licensing sanctions are are really um

1433
01:28:29,520 --> 01:28:32,320
severe and they you actually lose your

1434
01:28:32,320 --> 01:28:33,679
license for a year, then you have to put

1435
01:28:33,679 --> 01:28:35,920
a breathalyzer in your car. So, I think

1436
01:28:35,920 --> 01:28:38,719
um sometimes I see cases that are very

1437
01:28:38,719 --> 01:28:42,639
high here um on occasion uh over over a

1438
01:28:42,639 --> 01:28:45,120
two or over a three. So, that would be

1439
01:28:45,120 --> 01:28:47,520
something that might be something we

1440
01:28:47,520 --> 01:28:49,920
could consider. Um and we may want to

1441
01:28:49,920 --> 01:28:52,880
consider um a domestic violence

1442
01:28:52,880 --> 01:28:55,199
ordinance as well, which we don't have.

1443
01:28:55,199 --> 01:28:57,600
So, we have to um write that under

1444
01:28:57,600 --> 01:28:59,600
assault and battery if we want to keep

1445
01:28:59,600 --> 01:29:02,320
it local. And I think uh a domestic

1446
01:29:02,320 --> 01:29:03,920
violence might be something that we

1447
01:29:03,920 --> 01:29:09,430
would we might want to consider adding.

1448
01:29:09,440 --> 01:29:12,080
» Now is that normally the departments

1449
01:29:12,080 --> 01:29:13,679
that come up with that stuff or is it

1450
01:29:13,679 --> 01:29:15,520
the usually the prosecutors notices

1451
01:29:15,520 --> 01:29:17,760
these things which

1452
01:29:17,760 --> 01:29:18,960
>> I think it's sort of

1453
01:29:18,960 --> 01:29:20,480
>> collaborative both or

1454
01:29:20,480 --> 01:29:22,960
>> Yeah, I think it's a collaborative both

1455
01:29:22,960 --> 01:29:26,400
really. um we'd have to identify a need

1456
01:29:26,400 --> 01:29:28,719
and and talk with it and then decide if

1457
01:29:28,719 --> 01:29:31,679
we were in agreement and then present it

1458
01:29:31,679 --> 01:29:35,040
to council um for council's approval and

1459
01:29:35,040 --> 01:29:36,400
thoughts upon it.

1460
01:29:36,400 --> 01:29:40,000
>> Okay. And in closing, any closing things

1461
01:29:40,000 --> 01:29:41,360
that you'd like to say?

1462
01:29:41,360 --> 01:29:43,600
>> Um you know, I mean it's it's been a

1463
01:29:43,600 --> 01:29:46,080
pleasure, you know, like it really has.

1464
01:29:46,080 --> 01:29:48,320
Uh and so I've been with Wayne now for

1465
01:29:48,320 --> 01:29:50,239
like I said, uh I think it's eight or

1466
01:29:50,239 --> 01:29:52,639
nine years. And as I started out saying

1467
01:29:52,639 --> 01:29:54,400
like the different department heads that

1468
01:29:54,400 --> 01:29:57,600
I've gone through and um worked with and

1469
01:29:57,600 --> 01:29:59,440
uh you know I got to work with Judge

1470
01:29:59,440 --> 01:30:03,440
Mack who's um kind of like a a legend

1471
01:30:03,440 --> 01:30:06,080
area judge really. She was you know as

1472
01:30:06,080 --> 01:30:08,960
you guys know she started uh the mental

1473
01:30:08,960 --> 01:30:10,800
health treatment court with uh Judge

1474
01:30:10,800 --> 01:30:12,639
David Gubau who's another one of my

1475
01:30:12,639 --> 01:30:15,360
mentors. Um so that was just so exciting

1476
01:30:15,360 --> 01:30:17,360
to come here and get to work from her

1477
01:30:17,360 --> 01:30:20,400
and and learn under her. And then um

1478
01:30:20,400 --> 01:30:23,840
just I've really kind of come to really

1479
01:30:23,840 --> 01:30:26,000
love Wayne in a lot of ways and the city

1480
01:30:26,000 --> 01:30:29,120
and I didn't even really know that there

1481
01:30:29,120 --> 01:30:35,280
was a city of Wayne, you know, before I got this job. Um I I was aware

1482
01:30:35,280 --> 01:30:37,120
of it, but I just didn't live close. I

1483
01:30:37,120 --> 01:30:39,120
knew it was next to Westland and but I

1484
01:30:39,120 --> 01:30:41,520
had never been here and and um now I've

1485
01:30:41,520 --> 01:30:43,840
been coming here, you know, regularly

1486
01:30:43,840 --> 01:30:46,080
for for years and it's just a really

1487
01:30:46,080 --> 01:30:48,639
it's a really nice city. Um, and like I

1488
01:30:48,639 --> 01:30:50,320
said, I'm I think you guys should be

1489
01:30:50,320 --> 01:30:51,520
really really proud of your police

1490
01:30:51,520 --> 01:30:54,000
department. It's been an honor for me to

1491
01:30:54,000 --> 01:30:56,239
work with them and to get to know them.

1492
01:30:56,239 --> 01:30:58,239
Um, I just have nothing but respect for

1493
01:30:58,239 --> 01:31:01,679
the the officers here. They do they do a

1494
01:31:01,679 --> 01:31:04,320
really good job. Yeah. Really good job.

1495
01:31:04,320 --> 01:31:07,120
And that that's all I have to say.

1496
01:31:07,120 --> 01:31:08,639
>> Okay. Well, thank you.

1497
01:31:08,639 --> 01:31:10,159
>> Thank you.

1498
01:31:10,159 --> 01:31:12,159
We're going to take five

1499
01:31:12,159 --> 01:35:53,669
minutes.

1500
01:35:53,679 --> 01:35:57,040
Uh welcome. We are now on Rosetti

1501
01:35:57,040 --> 01:36:01,440
Schultz, Jopic and Ambushler uh PC. And

1502
01:36:01,440 --> 01:36:03,440
uh we'll start with letting you guys

1503
01:36:03,440 --> 01:36:05,840
tell us about uh give us your personal

1504
01:36:05,840 --> 01:36:08,080
bio, years of relevant service,

1505
01:36:08,080 --> 01:36:10,480
experience, years with the existing your

1506
01:36:10,480 --> 01:36:15,040
firm and uh and many municipalities that

1507
01:36:15,040 --> 01:36:16,960
you currently serve, ability per the

1508
01:36:16,960 --> 01:36:20,000
judge request, and back up when

1509
01:36:20,000 --> 01:36:22,800
necessary, and your hourly rate.

1510
01:36:22,800 --> 01:36:25,600
>> Um good evening. I'm Ann McLaclin as you

1511
01:36:25,600 --> 01:36:29,040
know um I'm a shareholder with our firm

1512
01:36:29,040 --> 01:36:32,320
and um I am a former prosecutor even

1513
01:36:32,320 --> 01:36:34,719
though that is not generally um part of

1514
01:36:34,719 --> 01:36:36,800
my current practice. I did formerly

1515
01:36:36,800 --> 01:36:40,400
prosecute in Garden City and Redford

1516
01:36:40,400 --> 01:36:43,600
Township. Um

1517
01:36:43,600 --> 01:36:47,199
I will not be a prosecutor for Wayne

1518
01:36:47,199 --> 01:36:49,679
should uh you choose to hire our firm

1519
01:36:49,679 --> 01:36:52,719
for this. Um but um I do want to point

1520
01:36:52,719 --> 01:36:55,440
out that our firm does serve many many

1521
01:36:55,440 --> 01:36:58,400
different communities uh as prosecutors.

1522
01:36:58,400 --> 01:37:01,679
We have presently 12 or more uh

1523
01:37:01,679 --> 01:37:03,600
attorneys in our firm who do

1524
01:37:03,600 --> 01:37:06,719
prosecutorial work including Matthew

1525
01:37:06,719 --> 01:37:09,840
Wayne who is with me tonight and I would

1526
01:37:09,840 --> 01:37:11,840
um like to introduce him to you and let

1527
01:37:11,840 --> 01:37:14,960
him describe um his relevant experience.

1528
01:37:14,960 --> 01:37:17,199
Um I would like to say one thing and

1529
01:37:17,199 --> 01:37:20,159
that is that um our hourly rate that we

1530
01:37:20,159 --> 01:37:23,600
have proposed is $195 an hour for uh

1531
01:37:23,600 --> 01:37:26,960
prosecutorial services.

1532
01:37:26,960 --> 01:37:28,719
>> Okay.

1533
01:37:28,719 --> 01:37:30,639
>> Thank you. So uh good evening council

1534
01:37:30,639 --> 01:37:32,639
members and madame clerk and madam

1535
01:37:32,639 --> 01:37:35,280
manager and all attendees. So yes, my

1536
01:37:35,280 --> 01:37:37,600
name is Matthew Wayne. I've been with

1537
01:37:37,600 --> 01:37:41,199
Rosati Schultz for two years. Um, I've

1538
01:37:41,199 --> 01:37:43,440
prosecuted in a number of places across

1539
01:37:43,440 --> 01:37:45,760
Michigan, actually 14 communities and 13

1540
01:37:45,760 --> 01:37:48,239
different district courts. I currently

1541
01:37:48,239 --> 01:37:50,320
prosecute for the city of East Lancing

1542
01:37:50,320 --> 01:37:54,159
in Giel Township. Um, in the past I have

1543
01:37:54,159 --> 01:37:56,480
prosecuted Hand Tramic and Ingster, each

1544
01:37:56,480 --> 01:37:59,360
of those for four years. And I have

1545
01:37:59,360 --> 01:38:00,960
filled in for colleagues and number

1546
01:38:00,960 --> 01:38:03,920
other communities such as Novi,

1547
01:38:03,920 --> 01:38:05,920
Berkeley,

1548
01:38:05,920 --> 01:38:08,960
um, Bloomfield Township, Sagen Township,

1549
01:38:08,960 --> 01:38:13,590
and city among others.

1550
01:38:13,600 --> 01:38:16,239
» Okay.

1551
01:38:16,239 --> 01:38:17,920
Um

1552
01:38:17,920 --> 01:38:20,480
we had a request from the judge uh her

1553
01:38:20,480 --> 01:38:22,960
availability request. Uh is your firm

1554
01:38:22,960 --> 01:38:26,719
able to provide prosecutional services

1555
01:38:26,719 --> 01:38:29,040
for the 29th District Court's criminal

1556
01:38:29,040 --> 01:38:32,239
dockets every week, Tuesday from 8:00

1557
01:38:32,239 --> 01:38:36,000
a.m. to noon and one Monday a month at

1558
01:38:36,000 --> 01:38:39,360
8:00 a.m. to noon. Uh and jury trials

1559
01:38:39,360 --> 01:38:42,239
are held on Tuesdays or Fridays when

1560
01:38:42,239 --> 01:38:45,520
necessary. Uh it's imperative that our

1561
01:38:45,520 --> 01:38:49,119
city's legal representation be available

1562
01:38:49,119 --> 01:38:52,159
able to offer sufficient staffing to

1563
01:38:52,159 --> 01:38:54,080
cover these dockets.

1564
01:38:54,080 --> 01:38:55,760
>> Yes.

1565
01:38:55,760 --> 01:38:58,400
>> So you're good. Okay.

1566
01:38:58,400 --> 01:39:05,590
Councilwoman Lawrence

1567
01:39:05,600 --> 01:39:08,080
» define discretion as it apply as it

1568
01:39:08,080 --> 01:39:10,880
appeals to as it appeals to your role as

1569
01:39:10,880 --> 01:39:13,199
city prosecutor and how would you use

1570
01:39:13,199 --> 01:39:16,320
this discretion?

1571
01:39:16,320 --> 01:39:18,960
>> Good question. Obviously discretion is a

1572
01:39:18,960 --> 01:39:21,679
an important part of being a prosecutor.

1573
01:39:21,679 --> 01:39:23,520
Um it can mean different things

1574
01:39:23,520 --> 01:39:26,480
depending on the context. Um, but as

1575
01:39:26,480 --> 01:39:28,400
prosecutors, and we learned this early

1576
01:39:28,400 --> 01:39:30,000
in law school, if you are a prosecutor,

1577
01:39:30,000 --> 01:39:31,280
you wear the hat of what's called a

1578
01:39:31,280 --> 01:39:33,840
minister of justice. And when you're

1579
01:39:33,840 --> 01:39:35,600
doing that, it means unlike a defense

1580
01:39:35,600 --> 01:39:38,159
attorney, for example, who is obligated

1581
01:39:38,159 --> 01:39:40,639
to uh go all out for their client, for

1582
01:39:40,639 --> 01:39:43,440
lack of a better term, um I'm not always

1583
01:39:43,440 --> 01:39:46,480
required to go all out for my client in

1584
01:39:46,480 --> 01:39:49,520
the sense that if there is something

1585
01:39:49,520 --> 01:39:53,840
that um is improper about an arrest, for

1586
01:39:53,840 --> 01:39:56,719
an example, I can't proceed on that. If

1587
01:39:56,719 --> 01:39:58,400
there is insufficient evidence to bring

1588
01:39:58,400 --> 01:40:00,239
a case, I just can't proceed on that

1589
01:40:00,239 --> 01:40:01,679
merely because I want to or merely

1590
01:40:01,679 --> 01:40:04,320
because pressure me to do so. Um,

1591
01:40:04,320 --> 01:40:06,960
discretion, again, it's probably easier

1592
01:40:06,960 --> 01:40:10,639
um to give an example um as to define,

1593
01:40:10,639 --> 01:40:12,320
but

1594
01:40:12,320 --> 01:40:15,360
discretion is using sound judgment

1595
01:40:15,360 --> 01:40:17,040
coupled with ethics and professionalism

1596
01:40:17,040 --> 01:40:20,080
in determining what cases to prosecute

1597
01:40:20,080 --> 01:40:22,320
and how vigorously to prosecute a

1598
01:40:22,320 --> 01:40:24,960
defendant.

1599
01:40:24,960 --> 01:40:29,830
Okay. Anything else?

1600
01:40:29,840 --> 01:40:32,000
Councilwoman was

1601
01:40:32,000 --> 01:40:34,239
>> um can you break down

1602
01:40:34,239 --> 01:40:35,920
uh can you provide a breakdown of your

1603
01:40:35,920 --> 01:40:38,800
experience with uh residential and

1604
01:40:38,800 --> 01:40:41,360
commercial industrial compliance such as

1605
01:40:41,360 --> 01:40:44,239
um such as occupying a building without

1606
01:40:44,239 --> 01:40:47,520
a CO and an an inspector's right to

1607
01:40:47,520 --> 01:40:50,719
enter. So I've uh for multiple

1608
01:40:50,719 --> 01:40:53,199
communities where I've prosecuted um a

1609
01:40:53,199 --> 01:40:54,880
lot of them who have taken their cues

1610
01:40:54,880 --> 01:40:56,639
from the state codes. Those are issues

1611
01:40:56,639 --> 01:40:59,040
that come up time.

1612
01:40:59,040 --> 01:41:01,520
As far as the ability in reverse order

1613
01:41:01,520 --> 01:41:03,600
as far as the ability for an inspector

1614
01:41:03,600 --> 01:41:08,320
to enter um a premises um absent

1615
01:41:08,320 --> 01:41:10,320
accident circumstances, there has to be

1616
01:41:10,320 --> 01:41:13,600
reasonable cause for an individual um

1617
01:41:13,600 --> 01:41:15,840
who's doing those inspections to enter

1618
01:41:15,840 --> 01:41:18,000
onto the property. There are of course

1619
01:41:18,000 --> 01:41:20,159
um circumstances such as um and this

1620
01:41:20,159 --> 01:41:22,639
would not go for something like plumbing

1621
01:41:22,639 --> 01:41:24,719
for example, but for violations that can

1622
01:41:24,719 --> 01:41:27,840
be seen from the street or from someone

1623
01:41:27,840 --> 01:41:30,400
else's property with their permission.

1624
01:41:30,400 --> 01:41:33,199
um that would be different. Um with um

1625
01:41:33,199 --> 01:41:35,760
certain um violations, plumbing and

1626
01:41:35,760 --> 01:41:38,560
mechanical, um those get a little more

1627
01:41:38,560 --> 01:41:40,880
pressing if there's something dangerous

1628
01:41:40,880 --> 01:41:43,199
um or if there something dangerous is

1629
01:41:43,199 --> 01:41:44,800
suspected of occurring there and it may

1630
01:41:44,800 --> 01:41:47,600
be necessary to engage the court because

1631
01:41:47,600 --> 01:41:50,960
unlike with um other types of offenses,

1632
01:41:50,960 --> 01:41:53,119
the the logic is you can't wait until

1633
01:41:53,119 --> 01:41:55,679
something bad happens. There has to be

1634
01:41:55,679 --> 01:41:58,960
some kind of impetus to um be able to go

1635
01:41:58,960 --> 01:42:01,600
and proactive about that and I've had to

1636
01:42:01,600 --> 01:42:06,159
do that. I've had to deal with um uh in

1637
01:42:06,159 --> 01:42:08,400
Hammock, for example, an older community

1638
01:42:08,400 --> 01:42:10,320
with structures there. Um it was

1639
01:42:10,320 --> 01:42:12,000
imperative that we had to go in there

1640
01:42:12,000 --> 01:42:14,320
and we had to take care of problem

1641
01:42:14,320 --> 01:42:15,600
structures because there were buildings

1642
01:42:15,600 --> 01:42:17,520
there that some of them were 100 years

1643
01:42:17,520 --> 01:42:19,760
old and they were just flatout dangerous

1644
01:42:19,760 --> 01:42:22,800
and um it's certainly not a glamorous

1645
01:42:22,800 --> 01:42:24,320
part of prosecuting. Not that any of it

1646
01:42:24,320 --> 01:42:26,560
is, but it's necessary. It has to get

1647
01:42:26,560 --> 01:42:28,560
done for the safety of the community.

1648
01:42:28,560 --> 01:42:31,119
Um, it's an eyesore, but beyond that,

1649
01:42:31,119 --> 01:42:32,560
nobody wants to hear about a kid or

1650
01:42:32,560 --> 01:42:33,760
anybody else for that matter getting

1651
01:42:33,760 --> 01:42:35,360
injured because someone's not taking

1652
01:42:35,360 --> 01:42:37,600
care of their property. And so, I

1653
01:42:37,600 --> 01:42:39,600
consider it just as an important part of

1654
01:42:39,600 --> 01:42:42,320
prosecuting as

1655
01:42:42,320 --> 01:42:44,320
prosecuting drunk drivers or assault or

1656
01:42:44,320 --> 01:42:46,639
anything else. Um, if the community has

1657
01:42:46,639 --> 01:42:48,320
prohibitions against it, then it's

1658
01:42:48,320 --> 01:42:49,520
something that needs to be paid

1659
01:42:49,520 --> 01:42:52,159
attention.

1660
01:42:52,159 --> 01:42:53,119
>> Thank you.

1661
01:42:53,119 --> 01:42:57,109
>> Okay. protest.

1662
01:42:57,119 --> 01:43:01,199
» Is there anything that you could do as a

1663
01:43:01,199 --> 01:43:03,600
city prosecutor to improve the

1664
01:43:03,600 --> 01:43:06,639
efficiency of city court operations just

1665
01:43:06,639 --> 01:43:07,840
in general?

1666
01:43:07,840 --> 01:43:09,520
>> So that of course without knowing

1667
01:43:09,520 --> 01:43:11,199
exactly how things run over there.

1668
01:43:11,199 --> 01:43:14,159
That's something I'd have to be able to

1669
01:43:14,159 --> 01:43:16,719
um have to take a look at. But that

1670
01:43:16,719 --> 01:43:19,119
said, I mean any community or I've ever

1671
01:43:19,119 --> 01:43:21,760
um prosecuted um I've met with the

1672
01:43:21,760 --> 01:43:24,080
police department and the administrator

1673
01:43:24,080 --> 01:43:27,040
to go over policies and procedures. Um,

1674
01:43:27,040 --> 01:43:28,480
I like to know why something's being

1675
01:43:28,480 --> 01:43:30,880
done in a certain way. Um, I understand

1676
01:43:30,880 --> 01:43:32,320
certain communities want things done in

1677
01:43:32,320 --> 01:43:34,560
a certain way, but sometimes there are

1678
01:43:34,560 --> 01:43:36,960
policies and procedures which are

1679
01:43:36,960 --> 01:43:38,880
slowing things down or they're kind of

1680
01:43:38,880 --> 01:43:42,239
relics. Um, I've been there's a I've

1681
01:43:42,239 --> 01:43:43,920
prosecuted in some courts where, for

1682
01:43:43,920 --> 01:43:47,280
example, um the courts continue to use

1683
01:43:47,280 --> 01:43:49,600
discovery orders. um and that's for

1684
01:43:49,600 --> 01:43:51,199
misdemeanor cases and that's kind of a

1685
01:43:51,199 --> 01:43:53,840
throwback to before 2020 when the court

1686
01:43:53,840 --> 01:43:56,639
rules changed when uh discovery was not

1687
01:43:56,639 --> 01:43:58,880
mandatory for misdemeanor cases. That's

1688
01:43:58,880 --> 01:44:01,199
not the case now. So even if there and I

1689
01:44:01,199 --> 01:44:03,199
I'm not saying that this would uh this

1690
01:44:03,199 --> 01:44:05,040
uh condition would present itself, but

1691
01:44:05,040 --> 01:44:07,280
if I found for example that discovery

1692
01:44:07,280 --> 01:44:09,920
was not being offered um right away,

1693
01:44:09,920 --> 01:44:11,679
exculpatory material, something that

1694
01:44:11,679 --> 01:44:15,440
would tend to um to disprove someone's

1695
01:44:15,440 --> 01:44:17,280
guilt. Um, that's the kind of thing I

1696
01:44:17,280 --> 01:44:19,280
like to get on that right away to move

1697
01:44:19,280 --> 01:44:22,880
cases along um, and get those materials

1698
01:44:22,880 --> 01:44:24,560
over there because we have an obligation

1699
01:44:24,560 --> 01:44:26,400
and then rather than um, if it's

1700
01:44:26,400 --> 01:44:28,000
something rather than wait for an

1701
01:44:28,000 --> 01:44:29,920
attorney to ask me, I've also developed

1702
01:44:29,920 --> 01:44:31,440
a lot of relationships with defense

1703
01:44:31,440 --> 01:44:34,159
attorneys and so um, those folks who

1704
01:44:34,159 --> 01:44:35,920
I've worked with um, it's easy for me to

1705
01:44:35,920 --> 01:44:38,480
reach out in advance and to work

1706
01:44:38,480 --> 01:44:40,400
something out and to keep the docket

1707
01:44:40,400 --> 01:44:43,280
from getting clogged. Um, in terms of

1708
01:44:43,280 --> 01:44:45,119
other matters of efficiency, I don't

1709
01:44:45,119 --> 01:44:48,159
know, this kind of uh might bleed into

1710
01:44:48,159 --> 01:44:51,119
some other areas, but um I've always

1711
01:44:51,119 --> 01:44:52,960
been big on helping um the police

1712
01:44:52,960 --> 01:44:55,520
department if requested um with

1713
01:44:55,520 --> 01:44:57,520
information about how to write more

1714
01:44:57,520 --> 01:45:01,199
efficient police reports. Um we've

1715
01:45:01,199 --> 01:45:03,280
worked with police departments um and

1716
01:45:03,280 --> 01:45:05,119
helping officers who have little or no

1717
01:45:05,119 --> 01:45:08,159
experience testifying um because one of

1718
01:45:08,159 --> 01:45:10,320
the worst things is to be put in a

1719
01:45:10,320 --> 01:45:12,480
position where never testify before any

1720
01:45:12,480 --> 01:45:14,560
type of proceeding and you know god

1721
01:45:14,560 --> 01:45:16,000
forbid you don't want it to happen but

1722
01:45:16,000 --> 01:45:18,400
then somebody catastrophic happened

1723
01:45:18,400 --> 01:45:20,320
someone has to testify and I have seen

1724
01:45:20,320 --> 01:45:22,400
that happen in other communities there

1725
01:45:22,400 --> 01:45:24,159
was a state case not one of the ones

1726
01:45:24,159 --> 01:45:25,840
that I have but there was some officers

1727
01:45:25,840 --> 01:45:28,800
never testified an experienced um

1728
01:45:28,800 --> 01:45:30,560
assistant prosecuting attorney from

1729
01:45:30,560 --> 01:45:32,800
county and they had defense attorneys

1730
01:45:32,800 --> 01:45:34,400
who've been doing this for 40 years.

1731
01:45:34,400 --> 01:45:35,760
Well, guess who got chewed up and spit

1732
01:45:35,760 --> 01:45:38,239
out? Those new officers. I never want to

1733
01:45:38,239 --> 01:45:40,400
see that happen. So, I pledged from that

1734
01:45:40,400 --> 01:45:42,080
point that I would always make sure that

1735
01:45:42,080 --> 01:45:45,119
the departments and all the education um

1736
01:45:45,119 --> 01:45:46,800
any resources that we could possibly

1737
01:45:46,800 --> 01:45:49,119
give them so that they could um testify

1738
01:45:49,119 --> 01:45:52,320
efficiently, testify knowledgeably, and

1739
01:45:52,320 --> 01:45:54,639
do a good job so that we don't let the

1740
01:45:54,639 --> 01:45:57,679
bad guys loose, so to speak.

1741
01:45:57,679 --> 01:45:59,520
>> Okay.

1742
01:45:59,520 --> 01:46:03,040
So, are there any matters you would or

1743
01:46:03,040 --> 01:46:05,280
would not provide counsel to the police

1744
01:46:05,280 --> 01:46:08,320
department on?

1745
01:46:08,320 --> 01:46:09,920
>> I can't really think of any. I mean, we

1746
01:46:09,920 --> 01:46:12,480
like, as I just uh detailed, we we do so

1747
01:46:12,480 --> 01:46:14,880
many in terms of um testimonial

1748
01:46:14,880 --> 01:46:16,800
training, but we also offer um

1749
01:46:16,800 --> 01:46:18,719
constitutional advice, work on search

1750
01:46:18,719 --> 01:46:23,920
and seizures, best practices. Um if it connects with law enforcement, if

1751
01:46:23,920 --> 01:46:25,440
it's going to make the community safer,

1752
01:46:25,440 --> 01:46:26,719
it's going to make the police department

1753
01:46:26,719 --> 01:46:28,960
better. And I have that knowledge. I'm

1754
01:46:28,960 --> 01:46:32,000
absolutely going to share it. And uh

1755
01:46:32,000 --> 01:46:33,280
something that's nice about having a

1756
01:46:33,280 --> 01:46:35,360
firm with so many people with uh so many

1757
01:46:35,360 --> 01:46:37,199
experience because as I believe she

1758
01:46:37,199 --> 01:46:40,000
said, that's really all our firm does.

1759
01:46:40,000 --> 01:46:41,760
Um if there's something I don't happen

1760
01:46:41,760 --> 01:46:45,600
to know or if I'm not up to, you know,

1761
01:46:45,600 --> 01:46:48,159
this up to speed exactly in the moment,

1762
01:46:48,159 --> 01:46:49,840
I can almost guarantee we have somebody

1763
01:46:49,840 --> 01:46:52,719
at our firm who who is up on that and

1764
01:46:52,719 --> 01:46:54,719
who has done that, who has briefed the

1765
01:46:54,719 --> 01:46:57,440
matter and probably litigated it. And um

1766
01:46:57,440 --> 01:46:58,639
That's a great thing about our firm.

1767
01:46:58,639 --> 01:47:00,239
Those attorneys always making themselves

1768
01:47:00,239 --> 01:47:05,440
available um as a resource. So again, I can't really think of anything that I

1769
01:47:05,440 --> 01:47:07,520
would counsel the police department on.

1770
01:47:07,520 --> 01:47:08,639
I said anything that's going to make a

1771
01:47:08,639 --> 01:47:10,719
better law better law enforcement agency

1772
01:47:10,719 --> 01:47:13,280
and a safer community. I know I'm going

1773
01:47:13,280 --> 01:47:16,560
to offer my services.

1774
01:47:16,560 --> 01:47:22,070
Uh, Councilman Lawrence,

1775
01:47:22,080 --> 01:47:24,400
» how many cases have you represented with

1776
01:47:24,400 --> 01:47:26,719
a municipality regarding environmental

1777
01:47:26,719 --> 01:47:30,239
violations such as air quality, fugitive

1778
01:47:30,239 --> 01:47:33,199
dust, geotechnical reports, and various

1779
01:47:33,199 --> 01:47:36,000
soil contamination testing? Did you go

1780
01:47:36,000 --> 01:47:38,800
to trial and what were the outcomes? I

1781
01:47:38,800 --> 01:47:40,560
have never had to prosecute any type of

1782
01:47:40,560 --> 01:47:43,920
environmental um ordinances or any types

1783
01:47:43,920 --> 01:47:49,030
of environmental violations.

1784
01:47:49,040 --> 01:47:51,760
And while I have not prosecuted them in

1785
01:47:51,760 --> 01:47:54,320
a in a criminal case um for ordinance

1786
01:47:54,320 --> 01:47:57,600
enforcement, I have dealt with um

1787
01:47:57,600 --> 01:48:00,159
environmental concerns and worked with

1788
01:48:00,159 --> 01:48:02,719
Eagle, which um does have jurisdiction

1789
01:48:02,719 --> 01:48:06,000
over things like air quality um and

1790
01:48:06,000 --> 01:48:08,880
fugitive dust as as is described in the

1791
01:48:08,880 --> 01:48:13,840
in your question. Um and our role um in

1792
01:48:13,840 --> 01:48:15,600
that case I was hired as a special

1793
01:48:15,600 --> 01:48:17,600
counsel for another city and they asked

1794
01:48:17,600 --> 01:48:20,800
me to initially to look into the

1795
01:48:20,800 --> 01:48:24,480
possibility of um abating a nuisance and

1796
01:48:24,480 --> 01:48:26,560
preventing demolition of a what would

1797
01:48:26,560 --> 01:48:28,960
they call it historic building um

1798
01:48:28,960 --> 01:48:31,199
because it contained asbestous and there

1799
01:48:31,199 --> 01:48:33,119
was some remediation that needed to be

1800
01:48:33,119 --> 01:48:35,119
done. So our role in that particular

1801
01:48:35,119 --> 01:48:39,119
case was to work with Eagle. Um we

1802
01:48:39,119 --> 01:48:42,560
obtained the uh property developer and

1803
01:48:42,560 --> 01:48:47,679
or demolition companies um um promise

1804
01:48:47,679 --> 01:48:49,280
and they carried through with it that

1805
01:48:49,280 --> 01:48:51,440
they would provide us with daily air

1806
01:48:51,440 --> 01:48:54,400
monitor uh and air quality readings and

1807
01:48:54,400 --> 01:48:57,920
things like that. so that we um ended up

1808
01:48:57,920 --> 01:49:02,080
proactively preventing any types of

1809
01:49:02,080 --> 01:49:03,840
problems that would affect the

1810
01:49:03,840 --> 01:49:06,159
neighboring properties and communities.

1811
01:49:06,159 --> 01:49:08,639
So that um that was, you know, turned

1812
01:49:08,639 --> 01:49:11,600
out to be done safely and while people

1813
01:49:11,600 --> 01:49:13,040
weren't happy that the building was

1814
01:49:13,040 --> 01:49:15,040
eventually demolished, it was done in a

1815
01:49:15,040 --> 01:49:17,119
safe manner and we were able to keep our

1816
01:49:17,119 --> 01:49:19,900
tabs on that.

1817
01:49:19,900 --> 01:49:23,990
[clears throat]

1818
01:49:24,000 --> 01:49:27,040
Councilwoman was.

1819
01:49:27,040 --> 01:49:29,600
>> Okay. So, kind of a two-part. How

1820
01:49:29,600 --> 01:49:31,679
familiar are you with our current legal

1821
01:49:31,679 --> 01:49:33,199
situations?

1822
01:49:33,199 --> 01:49:35,760
And do you have any experience with

1823
01:49:35,760 --> 01:49:39,040
habitual offenders andor difficult

1824
01:49:39,040 --> 01:49:42,239
latigious, mentally ill or retaliatory

1825
01:49:42,239 --> 01:49:44,560
violators?

1826
01:49:44,560 --> 01:49:46,719
So I am aware obviously conversations

1827
01:49:46,719 --> 01:49:51,600
with an about some of the more

1828
01:49:51,600 --> 01:49:54,000
interesting people

1829
01:49:54,000 --> 01:49:56,159
but the that's any community. Uh to

1830
01:49:56,159 --> 01:49:59,840
answer your question um I dealt with um

1831
01:49:59,840 --> 01:50:02,239
all kinds of individuals in prosecuting.

1832
01:50:02,239 --> 01:50:04,159
Yes. So people who are retaliatory yes

1833
01:50:04,159 --> 01:50:06,080
sovereign citizens yes people who

1834
01:50:06,080 --> 01:50:08,560
threaten violence yes

1835
01:50:08,560 --> 01:50:10,159
Ohio State fans. the very worst of

1836
01:50:10,159 --> 01:50:12,960
people.

1837
01:50:12,960 --> 01:50:14,960
Um, no, but all all joking aside, that

1838
01:50:14,960 --> 01:50:18,480
really that's any community. Um, again,

1839
01:50:18,480 --> 01:50:19,920
that's, you know, in those folks who

1840
01:50:19,920 --> 01:50:21,920
reside here or who are in the court

1841
01:50:21,920 --> 01:50:23,760
system, they're still entitled to their

1842
01:50:23,760 --> 01:50:25,920
rights. Um, I personally try to kill

1843
01:50:25,920 --> 01:50:28,639
them with kindness and, you know, be

1844
01:50:28,639 --> 01:50:30,480
respectful to them, but at the end of

1845
01:50:30,480 --> 01:50:31,840
the day, you know, you have to do what

1846
01:50:31,840 --> 01:50:35,040
you have to do. And um I know you know

1847
01:50:35,040 --> 01:50:37,040
something that comes up in that respect

1848
01:50:37,040 --> 01:50:38,880
when you have folks who have civil suits

1849
01:50:38,880 --> 01:50:40,560
sometimes they get picked up for traffic

1850
01:50:40,560 --> 01:50:44,560
violations or you know just other events

1851
01:50:44,560 --> 01:50:46,719
and that's where that discretion comes

1852
01:50:46,719 --> 01:50:48,880
in and and the ethics you have to you

1853
01:50:48,880 --> 01:50:51,679
know go about prosecuting them the way

1854
01:50:51,679 --> 01:50:53,199
that you would prosecute anyone else.

1855
01:50:53,199 --> 01:50:54,480
You have to look at what the criminal

1856
01:50:54,480 --> 01:50:56,159
record is. You have to kind of you know

1857
01:50:56,159 --> 01:50:57,679
divorce yourself from the fact that you

1858
01:50:57,679 --> 01:51:02,159
have civil litigation. Um

1859
01:51:02,159 --> 01:51:04,320
part of what you do as a prosecutor.

1860
01:51:04,320 --> 01:51:06,400
>> Thank you,

1861
01:51:06,400 --> 01:51:08,639
>> Mayor Proto.

1862
01:51:08,639 --> 01:51:11,679
>> Uh, this is a

1863
01:51:11,679 --> 01:51:14,400
this question has several parts in it,

1864
01:51:14,400 --> 01:51:16,320
each one being answered with yes or no.

1865
01:51:16,320 --> 01:51:19,040
An experience question with several

1866
01:51:19,040 --> 01:51:20,480
parts. Uh, what experience do you have

1867
01:51:20,480 --> 01:51:22,880
interpreting and enforcing um these

1868
01:51:22,880 --> 01:51:26,239
following codes? The Michigan uh do you

1869
01:51:26,239 --> 01:51:28,239
have experience interpreting and

1870
01:51:28,239 --> 01:51:30,159
enforcing these following codes? The

1871
01:51:30,159 --> 01:51:32,880
Michigan Building Code. Yes.

1872
01:51:32,880 --> 01:51:35,360
>> The residential code or any residential

1873
01:51:35,360 --> 01:51:36,080
code?

1874
01:51:36,080 --> 01:51:36,800
>> Yes.

1875
01:51:36,800 --> 01:51:38,400
>> Mechanical code?

1876
01:51:38,400 --> 01:51:38,960
>> Yes.

1877
01:51:38,960 --> 01:51:40,320
>> Plumbing code?

1878
01:51:40,320 --> 01:51:40,880
>> Yes.

1879
01:51:40,880 --> 01:51:42,320
>> Electrical code?

1880
01:51:42,320 --> 01:51:42,880
>> Yes.

1881
01:51:42,880 --> 01:51:44,320
>> Fire code?

1882
01:51:44,320 --> 01:51:44,800
>> Yes.

1883
01:51:44,800 --> 01:51:46,639
>> And property maintenance code?

1884
01:51:46,639 --> 01:51:47,199
>> Yes.

1885
01:51:47,199 --> 01:51:49,920
>> Thank you.

1886
01:51:49,920 --> 01:51:55,109
Okay.

1887
01:51:55,119 --> 01:51:57,199
So if also I wanted to mention one other

1888
01:51:57,199 --> 01:52:00,159
thing when you you brought up the uh the

1889
01:52:00,159 --> 01:52:02,000
hours that the court has asked the

1890
01:52:02,000 --> 01:52:05,119
prosecutor to be available. Um it's

1891
01:52:05,119 --> 01:52:06,960
always been my practice at well as well

1892
01:52:06,960 --> 01:52:09,360
that in addition to being present for

1893
01:52:09,360 --> 01:52:11,119
the times that the court needs me. I

1894
01:52:11,119 --> 01:52:13,760
don't, you know, keep an eye on clock

1895
01:52:13,760 --> 01:52:15,920
and it's not like if someone needs me

1896
01:52:15,920 --> 01:52:18,080
and it's, you know, past the hours of,

1897
01:52:18,080 --> 01:52:20,239
you know, 12, it's not 12 and 8 on a

1898
01:52:20,239 --> 01:52:22,880
Tuesday or that one Monday. That by no

1899
01:52:22,880 --> 01:52:25,760
means is going to stop me from uh taking

1900
01:52:25,760 --> 01:52:29,119
care of a case. I often get called on um

1901
01:52:29,119 --> 01:52:31,280
to hey, can you jump on Zoom? We have

1902
01:52:31,280 --> 01:52:33,280
somebody who got picked up and we need

1903
01:52:33,280 --> 01:52:35,760
to argue for bond. This person's

1904
01:52:35,760 --> 01:52:38,000
violent. Um, you know, I had it happen

1905
01:52:38,000 --> 01:52:40,159
5:30 on a Friday before other random

1906
01:52:40,159 --> 01:52:42,480
times. As far as I'm concerned, that's

1907
01:52:42,480 --> 01:52:44,560
just part of it. So, as long as I'm

1908
01:52:44,560 --> 01:52:46,000
available, as long as I'm not in a

1909
01:52:46,000 --> 01:52:48,639
hearing or in court somewhere else,

1910
01:52:48,639 --> 01:52:50,560
again, obviously, I will be there. You

1911
01:52:50,560 --> 01:52:53,040
know, if your city selects us as your

1912
01:52:53,040 --> 01:52:56,000
firm, I will be there um for the hours

1913
01:52:56,000 --> 01:52:59,199
in question. But again, by no means um

1914
01:52:59,199 --> 01:53:00,560
means I would be confined to just

1915
01:53:00,560 --> 01:53:03,440
working those hours.

1916
01:53:03,440 --> 01:53:04,960
>> Okay.

1917
01:53:04,960 --> 01:53:08,960
So, what do you think uh your role as

1918
01:53:08,960 --> 01:53:12,239
city prosecutor is?

1919
01:53:12,239 --> 01:53:13,840
>> Well, I think I've already touched by

1920
01:53:13,840 --> 01:53:15,360
some of this, but I mean, the first and

1921
01:53:15,360 --> 01:53:17,199
foremost, it's assisting and maintaining

1922
01:53:17,199 --> 01:53:19,119
public safety, and that's working with

1923
01:53:19,119 --> 01:53:20,560
the police department and other law

1924
01:53:20,560 --> 01:53:22,960
enforcement agencies to keep the

1925
01:53:22,960 --> 01:53:25,119
community safe in any way, shape, or

1926
01:53:25,119 --> 01:53:28,080
form that I that I can. Um, I need to

1927
01:53:28,080 --> 01:53:30,239
ensure that the law is executed fairly

1928
01:53:30,239 --> 01:53:32,159
and impartially,

1929
01:53:32,159 --> 01:53:34,320
maintain discretion when I need to.

1930
01:53:34,320 --> 01:53:37,440
exercise um sound judgment

1931
01:53:37,440 --> 01:53:40,880
and um also part of that discretion is

1932
01:53:40,880 --> 01:53:42,719
um

1933
01:53:42,719 --> 01:53:44,800
doing things with an eye not only for

1934
01:53:44,800 --> 01:53:46,800
justice but also for judicial economy.

1935
01:53:46,800 --> 01:53:48,159
Sometimes those go hand in hand,

1936
01:53:48,159 --> 01:53:50,800
sometimes they don't. Um but I think you

1937
01:53:50,800 --> 01:53:52,239
know it's a balance of all those and

1938
01:53:52,239 --> 01:53:54,719
then as mentioned um educating and

1939
01:53:54,719 --> 01:53:57,360
providing resources to the police

1940
01:53:57,360 --> 01:53:59,199
department and for that matter anyone

1941
01:53:59,199 --> 01:54:01,280
else um

1942
01:54:01,280 --> 01:54:03,440
is part of the city who wants to avail

1943
01:54:03,440 --> 01:54:06,880
themselves of any other training or

1944
01:54:06,880 --> 01:54:09,599
program.

1945
01:54:09,599 --> 01:54:13,199
>> Okay. Now, if you were to selected,

1946
01:54:13,199 --> 01:54:14,719
would you come in and look at our

1947
01:54:14,719 --> 01:54:17,040
ordinances and the things that we have

1948
01:54:17,040 --> 01:54:18,800
and make recommendations of things that

1949
01:54:18,800 --> 01:54:20,400
need to be fixed or how how do you

1950
01:54:20,400 --> 01:54:23,760
normally handle something like that?

1951
01:54:23,760 --> 01:54:25,920
>> I think I would work with Ann here. So,

1952
01:54:25,920 --> 01:54:27,440
I don't Yeah, I've already looked at

1953
01:54:27,440 --> 01:54:28,560
some of the ordinances. I've noticed

1954
01:54:28,560 --> 01:54:31,040
like some of the differences um noticed

1955
01:54:31,040 --> 01:54:33,280
that the city of Wayne um some of the

1956
01:54:33,280 --> 01:54:35,599
ordinances rather the extent of the

1957
01:54:35,599 --> 01:54:38,080
ordinances are not as um great as in

1958
01:54:38,080 --> 01:54:40,239
other communities. like lesser offenses

1959
01:54:40,239 --> 01:54:42,560
are handled, excuse me, less offenses or

1960
01:54:42,560 --> 01:54:44,719
fewer offenses rather are handled at the

1961
01:54:44,719 --> 01:54:46,000
local level compared to other

1962
01:54:46,000 --> 01:54:48,239
communities. Um I don't know that it's

1963
01:54:48,239 --> 01:54:49,679
my place to come in and say if

1964
01:54:49,679 --> 01:54:51,599
something's wrong. I mean I like to know

1965
01:54:51,599 --> 01:54:53,840
how it's working. I think that's an

1966
01:54:53,840 --> 01:54:56,639
important part and to gauge um you know

1967
01:54:56,639 --> 01:54:59,119
talking with uh you know folks over at

1968
01:54:59,119 --> 01:55:00,560
the court talking with the police

1969
01:55:00,560 --> 01:55:02,719
department talking with any of you you

1970
01:55:02,719 --> 01:55:04,639
know if how you think that these

1971
01:55:04,639 --> 01:55:06,239
ordinances are working is you know would

1972
01:55:06,239 --> 01:55:09,760
you like to see them um you know be more

1973
01:55:09,760 --> 01:55:11,040
farreaching is there anywhere you think

1974
01:55:11,040 --> 01:55:13,760
the ordinances need to kind of pull back

1975
01:55:13,760 --> 01:55:16,639
and then again working with an or others

1976
01:55:16,639 --> 01:55:19,440
to do the same thing to leers with you

1977
01:55:19,440 --> 01:55:21,040
and and determine what we can do there

1978
01:55:21,040 --> 01:55:23,280
but uh we have uh even though it's not

1979
01:55:23,280 --> 01:55:24,880
something that I do primarily of course

1980
01:55:24,880 --> 01:55:27,280
we do have a lot of experience in um

1981
01:55:27,280 --> 01:55:29,760
preparing ordinances and we have a lot

1982
01:55:29,760 --> 01:55:32,960
of materials that we can pull from.

1983
01:55:32,960 --> 01:55:36,639
>> I would just like to um add that um that

1984
01:55:36,639 --> 01:55:39,920
was something that we um included with

1985
01:55:39,920 --> 01:55:42,000
our general counsel

1986
01:55:42,000 --> 01:55:47,440
um proposal as well. But um it is

1987
01:55:47,440 --> 01:55:51,199
commonly our practice to note where we

1988
01:55:51,199 --> 01:55:54,080
feel that the mechanisms that exist are

1989
01:55:54,080 --> 01:55:58,400
not sufficient to do the job of um

1990
01:55:58,400 --> 01:56:00,400
taking care of the problems that the

1991
01:56:00,400 --> 01:56:03,520
city may have. Um, for example, you

1992
01:56:03,520 --> 01:56:06,080
know, there is the state housing law and

1993
01:56:06,080 --> 01:56:08,000
the dangerous building code within the

1994
01:56:08,000 --> 01:56:10,159
state housing law, but it does that also

1995
01:56:10,159 --> 01:56:13,440
allows the city to pass its own housing

1996
01:56:13,440 --> 01:56:18,560
code and perhaps um expand on some of

1997
01:56:18,560 --> 01:56:21,920
the particulars in terms of what

1998
01:56:21,920 --> 01:56:24,639
mechanisms are available to to take care

1999
01:56:24,639 --> 01:56:27,360
of problem properties. Um, especially

2000
01:56:27,360 --> 01:56:29,679
when you've got dangerous buildings. um

2001
01:56:29,679 --> 01:56:33,360
you know for um the um in another

2002
01:56:33,360 --> 01:56:35,440
community they didn't have their

2003
01:56:35,440 --> 01:56:38,639
demolition board uh convened properly

2004
01:56:38,639 --> 01:56:40,719
and so their hands were tied as far as

2005
01:56:40,719 --> 01:56:42,320
how far they could go with dealing with

2006
01:56:42,320 --> 01:56:43,599
those properties. So that's something

2007
01:56:43,599 --> 01:56:46,239
that we suggested um and that that

2008
01:56:46,239 --> 01:56:49,119
actually wasn't a case where we had a um

2009
01:56:49,119 --> 01:56:50,880
they weren't our direct client. we were

2010
01:56:50,880 --> 01:56:52,480
representing them in litigation related

2011
01:56:52,480 --> 01:56:55,440
to that issue and I flat out told them

2012
01:56:55,440 --> 01:56:57,280
you need to take care of this otherwise

2013
01:56:57,280 --> 01:56:58,639
you're going to keep ending up in civil

2014
01:56:58,639 --> 01:57:02,320
litigation if you don't um correct that

2015
01:57:02,320 --> 01:57:03,520
problem and make sure that those

2016
01:57:03,520 --> 01:57:05,760
mechanisms are available to your you

2017
01:57:05,760 --> 01:57:07,679
know your code enforcement officers and

2018
01:57:07,679 --> 01:57:12,070
hearing officers [snorts]

2019
01:57:12,080 --> 01:57:15,199
» any other questions from

2020
01:57:15,199 --> 01:57:16,880
Okay so if [snorts] you want to give us

2021
01:57:16,880 --> 01:57:18,800
a closing

2022
01:57:18,800 --> 01:57:21,679
pitch do Do you do you like do you think

2023
01:57:21,679 --> 01:57:24,480
it's something that should be

2024
01:57:24,480 --> 01:57:27,840
prosecution by itself or altogether and

2025
01:57:27,840 --> 01:57:30,000
then give your closing?

2026
01:57:30,000 --> 01:57:32,880
>> Okay. Um well um we have a number of

2027
01:57:32,880 --> 01:57:34,320
comm we represent a number of

2028
01:57:34,320 --> 01:57:36,480
communities where we are general counsel

2029
01:57:36,480 --> 01:57:39,199
and um we have attorneys in our firm who

2030
01:57:39,199 --> 01:57:43,360
do their prosecutorial work. Um I can I

2031
01:57:43,360 --> 01:57:45,599
can name you a handful right off the top

2032
01:57:45,599 --> 01:57:50,480
of my head. Um and those um jobs seem to

2033
01:57:50,480 --> 01:57:53,679
go hand in hand um because then you you

2034
01:57:53,679 --> 01:57:55,679
have the opportunity to work together on

2035
01:57:55,679 --> 01:57:57,440
something like what we just mentioned

2036
01:57:57,440 --> 01:57:59,599
where um you know we feel that the

2037
01:57:59,599 --> 01:58:01,040
prosecutorial mechanisms are

2038
01:58:01,040 --> 01:58:02,560
insufficient

2039
01:58:02,560 --> 01:58:05,440
um for the in the ordinances that are

2040
01:58:05,440 --> 01:58:08,320
available right now um and recommend

2041
01:58:08,320 --> 01:58:10,960
those types of um amendments or whatever

2042
01:58:10,960 --> 01:58:18,239
changes need to be made. So, um, we do believe that, um, working with

2043
01:58:18,239 --> 01:58:20,080
general counsel and prosecutors, working

2044
01:58:20,080 --> 01:58:21,760
side by side for the same community

2045
01:58:21,760 --> 01:58:25,599
allows us to have a more cohesive and,

2046
01:58:25,599 --> 01:58:29,119
um, consistent approach to each

2047
01:58:29,119 --> 01:58:31,679
community rather than having to contact,

2048
01:58:31,679 --> 01:58:33,280
if we're general counsel, you know,

2049
01:58:33,280 --> 01:58:35,119
having to contact a prosecutor and say,

2050
01:58:35,119 --> 01:58:37,119
"Hey, this is something we're thinking

2051
01:58:37,119 --> 01:58:38,639
about. What do you think?" You know, it

2052
01:58:38,639 --> 01:58:41,280
just makes it easier to have both. Um

2053
01:58:41,280 --> 01:58:44,480
but certainly we um given that we have

2054
01:58:44,480 --> 01:58:47,199
so much experience, we also do prosecute

2055
01:58:47,199 --> 01:58:48,560
for communities that we don't

2056
01:58:48,560 --> 01:58:50,880
represented as general counsel. So it's

2057
01:58:50,880 --> 01:58:54,480
not exclusive. But I I p personally I

2058
01:58:54,480 --> 01:58:57,440
think it's probably preferable to have

2059
01:58:57,440 --> 01:58:59,199
both because then you have the

2060
01:58:59,199 --> 01:59:01,280
opportunity to serve the community in a

2061
01:59:01,280 --> 01:59:03,840
much broader way than you do in either

2062
01:59:03,840 --> 01:59:05,840
individual instance.

2063
01:59:05,840 --> 01:59:10,000
>> Okay. Any closing? Um, no. I I think you

2064
01:59:10,000 --> 01:59:11,679
know, you know, you know me, you know

2065
01:59:11,679 --> 01:59:15,199
our firm. Um, and you know, we would be

2066
01:59:15,199 --> 01:59:17,280
certainly very honored and privileged if

2067
01:59:17,280 --> 01:59:20,320
you chose us um to um be your general

2068
01:59:20,320 --> 01:59:23,599
counsel and prosecutorial firm. Um, and

2069
01:59:23,599 --> 01:59:25,840
we're happy to serve the city of Wayne

2070
01:59:25,840 --> 01:59:27,440
in any way that we can.

2071
01:59:27,440 --> 01:59:28,719
>> Okay. Well, thank you.

2072
01:59:28,719 --> 01:59:57,199
>> Thank you.

2073
01:59:57,199 --> 01:59:58,400
>> Okay, let's go ahead and move the

2074
01:59:58,400 --> 02:00:00,159
agenda.

2075
02:00:00,159 --> 02:00:02,320
>> Public comments for matters not on the

2076
02:00:02,320 --> 02:00:04,400
agenda. Public comment is conducted in

2077
02:00:04,400 --> 02:00:06,800
accordance with applicable laws. Public

2078
02:00:06,800 --> 02:00:08,159
comment is limited to three minutes

2079
02:00:08,159 --> 02:00:09,360
which will begin when the speaker

2080
02:00:09,360 --> 02:00:11,280
approaches the podium unless the time is

2081
02:00:11,280 --> 02:00:12,880
extended by a majority vote of city

2082
02:00:12,880 --> 02:00:15,280
council. All public comment shall be

2083
02:00:15,280 --> 02:00:16,880
directed to city council and they shall

2084
02:00:16,880 --> 02:00:19,280
not respond. Public comment shall not be

2085
02:00:19,280 --> 02:00:20,960
disruptive, any violator of public

2086
02:00:20,960 --> 02:00:23,520
comment. Procedures may be ordered to be

2087
02:00:23,520 --> 02:00:25,360
seated immediately or removed by the

2088
02:00:25,360 --> 02:00:27,040
chairperson of the meeting or the

2089
02:00:27,040 --> 02:00:29,119
chairperson's designate.

2090
02:00:29,119 --> 02:00:31,440
>> Okay. Any public comment comments on

2091
02:00:31,440 --> 02:00:38,310
matters on the agenda this evening? Yes.

2092
02:00:38,320 --> 02:00:40,480
» First, I'm sorry about my attire, but I

2093
02:00:40,480 --> 02:00:42,400
didn't know this meeting was going on,

2094
02:00:42,400 --> 02:00:45,599
so I just took off and flew down here.

2095
02:00:45,599 --> 02:00:47,840
Um, Nancy Pride, I live on Courier

2096
02:00:47,840 --> 02:00:50,800
Street. Um,

2097
02:00:50,800 --> 02:00:53,360
two questions. I know about the flack

2098
02:00:53,360 --> 02:00:56,639
camera or the flack t cameras. if

2099
02:00:56,639 --> 02:00:59,119
there's any first or second or third

2100
02:00:59,119 --> 02:01:01,440
parties that have attached anything to

2101
02:01:01,440 --> 02:01:05,599
them, um they need to come down. Um the

2102
02:01:05,599 --> 02:01:09,599
other one is do we have a large drone

2103
02:01:09,599 --> 02:01:15,510
that hovers our city?

2104
02:01:15,520 --> 02:01:17,440
And there was one other one that I

2105
02:01:17,440 --> 02:01:19,679
wanted.

2106
02:01:19,679 --> 02:01:21,840
Oh, yes.

2107
02:01:21,840 --> 02:01:24,480
We have seen on uh Facebook, and I know

2108
02:01:24,480 --> 02:01:26,080
you can't believe everything you see on

2109
02:01:26,080 --> 02:01:28,400
Facebook, but I've talked to other

2110
02:01:28,400 --> 02:01:31,360
people and they do have them. Do we or

2111
02:01:31,360 --> 02:01:35,040
are we considering putting our police

2112
02:01:35,040 --> 02:01:38,800
officers in the schools with the stun

2113
02:01:38,800 --> 02:01:42,024
mits on their hands?

2114
02:01:42,024 --> 02:01:44,000
[clears throat] They have them and they

2115
02:01:44,000 --> 02:01:45,599
are putting them in the high schools and

2116
02:01:45,599 --> 02:01:48,000
the different places. So, I want to know

2117
02:01:48,000 --> 02:01:51,430
if this is what

2118
02:01:51,440 --> 02:01:54,719
Nope. Okay. Because to me that's that's

2119
02:01:54,719 --> 02:01:57,360
just such an invasion

2120
02:01:57,360 --> 02:02:00,719
um on young people.

2121
02:02:00,719 --> 02:02:03,199
I feel that it's they're trying to force

2122
02:02:03,199 --> 02:02:08,159
them to compliance and not be

2123
02:02:08,159 --> 02:02:10,000
a citizen of the United States. Thank

2124
02:02:10,000 --> 02:02:10,560
you.

2125
02:02:10,560 --> 02:02:13,840
>> Okay. Thank you. Anyone else?

2126
02:02:13,840 --> 02:02:17,030
Yes.

2127
02:02:17,040 --> 02:02:19,199
I was uh John Mills from Chestnut

2128
02:02:19,199 --> 02:02:22,639
Street. Um I was not able to attend your

2129
02:02:22,639 --> 02:02:25,920
August 13th special meeting that uh

2130
02:02:25,920 --> 02:02:27,920
appeared to have been on legal counsel

2131
02:02:27,920 --> 02:02:30,560
as well. Uh just for clarification, was

2132
02:02:30,560 --> 02:02:32,719
that for general counsel and tonight is

2133
02:02:32,719 --> 02:02:35,520
prosecutorial?

2134
02:02:35,520 --> 02:02:39,280
>> Yes, that's all. Thanks.

2135
02:02:39,280 --> 02:02:42,390
>> Okay.

2136
02:02:42,400 --> 02:02:48,400
» Can I get a motion to adjurnn?

2137
02:02:48,400 --> 02:02:49,520
>> Oh, second.

2138
02:02:49,520 --> 02:02:50,719
>> All in favor?

2139
02:02:50,719 --> 02:02:51,440
>> I

2140
02:02:51,440 --> 02:02:53,440
>> opposed. Motion carries.

2141
02:02:53,440 --> 02:02:57,000
>> Have a great night.