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Good evening and uh welcome to the

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Thursday, August, actually it's Tuesday,

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August 25th. We need to fix that on the

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uh on the agenda to to change that name

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the uh

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the day of the week. Um but it's August

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25th. uh we have a study session uh

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number 2026-2

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and I'd ask that everybody please

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silence your phones and stand for the

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pledge of allegiance

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to the flag of the United States of

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America and to the republic for it

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stands one nation

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indivisible with liberty and justice for

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Roll call. Mayor Rey

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» Here.

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» Mayor Prom Brock

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» Here.

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» Councilman Dow.

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» Councilwoman Was

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» Here.

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» Councilman Corals.

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Councilman Darwitch. [clears throat]

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Councilwoman Lawrence

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» Here. A quorum is present.

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Okay. Item number one, prosecutotorial

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services interviews. Um first firm is um

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Fosone and Grisco.

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» Good evening.

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» Good evening.

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» Um we're going to start out and let you

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talk about your your firm and uh about

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why about what you can do prosecution

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wise and then we'll ask some questions

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and give you some time at the end.

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» We appreciate you being here tonight.

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» Yeah, of course. Thank you very much for

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having us. It's good to be with you all.

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I had uh of course planned to begin with

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a joke uh about how the uh council saved

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the best for last uh but then obviously

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uh we got a phone call uh to come and be

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first instead. So I don't know what that

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says about it. [laughter]

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So at any rate that was a joke. Um in

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all seriousness it's our great pleasure

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to be here with you again. Um the firm

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uh as I think we may have talked about

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last time the law firm of Fosone and

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Grisco which uh is the successor to

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Fossil and Bond has been around uh since

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the 1990s. Um we've been doing

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prosecution since at least the 2010s. So

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about 16 years um worth of prosecutions

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going on there. Um mostly for the city

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of Westland. Uh there was a period of

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time where we also uh did the legal work

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for the city of Wayne actually which I

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think some of you uh remember a couple

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of different faces um probably in that

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regard.

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Um but currently we're in the 18th

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district court in Westland, a fairly

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busy court. Um but one where the

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busyiness of the court uh means that we

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have to have staff sufficient to deal

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with those issues. And so consequently

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that means that we have uh a number of

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attorneys that are trained and

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proficient in prosecution work. Um and

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so to the extent coverage issues arise,

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there are a number of attorneys that

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would be able to step in um in an

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emergency to to be able to provide

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coverage on on various issues. Um but at

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any rate, uh I am here with my partner

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Jackie Bona. Um the proposal that we

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provided does present Jackie uh as the

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lead prosecutor. Um so I'm the managing

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partner of the firm and sort of have

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general supervisory responsibility over

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all of our practice areas, including our

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municipal practice group. Um but I

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wanted to give Jackie a moment to

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introduce herself um and to to tell you

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a little bit about herself. Okay.

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» Good evening. I'm Jackie Bona and um I

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came to Foson Brisco in 2017. So uh just

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about 10 years now. And before that I

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was a courtappointed lawyer in uh

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Westland. So I was 23 years experience

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working with indigenous defendants there

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uh representing um hundreds if not close

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to thousands of people through the years

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um in the district court. I also did uh

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work in other district courts in the

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area and when they had a need arise for

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a prosecutor um they asked me to

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interview and I accepted a position

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there. So I started out prosecuting in

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Westland. I also did some coverage work

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for now Judge Olyri, but at the time she

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was prosecuting in Wayne. So I was in

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Wayne a couple of times for Judge Olirri

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uh covering for her uh doing the

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prosecution in front of Judge Mack. Um

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so since then I I basically spend almost

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all my time in Westland um working in um

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the the district court there pre-trials

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uh jury trials bench trials evidentary

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hearings if we have appeals um I've

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worked on appellet work to the circuit

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court to the court of appeals and even

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to the supreme court we had a case um I

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didn't get to argue it but uh I did have

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to um research and prepare the brief um

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So, uh, that being said, after I was

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brought on, uh, we've had, um, younger

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attorneys come in. I'm in charge of

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training them and getting them prepared.

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Uh, and we have at least four of us that

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can rotate through prosecution, and

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they're all proficient in the district

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court.

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» And the council has already met Sean

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Fitzgerald, who is the attorney who was

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with me the last time that I was here.

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Um, and Shawn has a history of uh pretty

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extensive municipal representation in a

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variety of areas including prosecution.

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Um, and Shawn would also be uh one of

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the attorneys uh potentially in the

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rotation for the city of Wayne work. Um,

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but I wanted to point out that we we

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didn't want to necessarily bring three

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people um because you'd already met

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Sean. So, I felt I felt perhaps uh we'd

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give you a different look here today.

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Um, one of the [clears throat] questions

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that you'd asked me to speak to was uh

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the the rate. Um, and so the proposal

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that we submitted identified an hourly

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rate of $175 per hour. Um, we would be

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open to discussing, if selected,

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alternative fee arrangements that make

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sense. Um, so I think those those things

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are, you know, somewhat negotiable. I

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know that there's opportunity at times

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for blended rates, um, or even flat

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rates when it makes sense. Uh, value

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based billing and different arrangements

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like that. and we'd be happy to explore

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any of those things. Um, again, if uh if

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the city decides that that we're to be

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selected for the prosecution work. Um,

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the function of the local prosecutor in

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our opinion is very important. There's a

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litany of local policy decisions and

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enforcement decisions that all flow

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through the prosecutor's office. So, we

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know that this is an important decision.

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Uh, we make no bones about it that we we

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want to be your prosecutors. That's why

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we're here today. Uh we think we're the

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best firm uh the best candidates for the

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position. We think that we have the

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opportunity to offer strategic legal

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advice um both of course in general

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counsel work, but we're here tonight to

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talk about prosecution. Um and so we

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have the capability of doing that. It's

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been proven uh in a community that's

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just not all that far from here. Um and

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that has some of the same types of

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concerns and issues that you can see

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from the questions um that the council

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and the and the city management has put

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together. Those are some of the very

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same issues that we deal with uh day in

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and day out for uh other clients. Um and

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so with that, I'm I'm happy to get into

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uh whatever questions the council has

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and we look forward to the discussion.

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Okay. Um I'm going to ask you this

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before we start that is your firm able

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to provide prosecutional services for

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the 29th district criminal dockets every

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week Tuesday from 8:00 a.m. noon and one

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Monday a month at 8:00 a.m. noon to

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noon. uh in jury trials that are held on

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Thursdays or Fridays when necessary. Uh

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is it imperative that our city's legal

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representation it is imperative that our

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city's legal representation be able to

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offer sufficient staffing to cover these

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dockets? Is that an issue?

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» That's not an issue at all. Um in fact,

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I I actually think that um probably

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between Jackie and Shawn uh there would

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almost be 100% coverage just with those

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two attorneys. Um but again to the

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extent that it's necessary, we've have

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two or three other people that would be

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able to step in um sort of on a uh I

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would say not necessarily a regular

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basis, but if necessary, they would be

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able to step in as well.

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» Okay. Okay. Um

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Councilwoman Lawrence, do you want to

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start us off and just tell us the number

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of questions so we can all keep track?

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» Okay,

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hang on for a second. Let me find my uh

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bearings here.

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How many cases have you represented? Oh,

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I'm sorry. It's question 10.

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How many cases have you represented with

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a municipality regarding environmental

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violations such as air quality, fugitive

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dust, geotechnical reports, and various

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soil contamination testing?

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Did you go to trial and what were the

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outcomes?

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» So, this is uh this is an interesting

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question. Um I I guess the first thing

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I'd say is that the firm uh myself and

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and attorney Stephen J. Brown um along

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with attorneys from Wayne County uh

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litigated through trial uh the Van Beern

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Township hazardous materials landfill

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case. Uh we won that case and and we're

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up on appeal now. Um so we have

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experience with that. We also have

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experience dealing with regulated

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industry generally. So uh representing a

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wastewater authority for example and

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it's NPDS permitting um or different

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sorts of of permitting that may be

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required. And similarly with private

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industry uh with respect to the various

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permits that they need from

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environmental companies and things like

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that. Um the reason I found it to be an

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interesting question uh is that I think

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so so yeah to be clear we have

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experience in that regard. Um

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it's not necessarily something that I

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would typically think of as like a

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district court prosecution function. I

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mean it's something we'd be happy to do

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in a service that we're uh qualified to

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provide. Um but it it strikes me as uh

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as a little bit of of an odd uh practice

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area for your typical prosecutor. Um I

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could certainly imagine contexts where

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it would be relevant. Say for example in

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the zoning context or perhaps local

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ordinances uh regarding maybe

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sedimentation control or uh the local

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you know wastewater public sanitary

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sewer system. Um that's certainly

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something we can do and and we have the

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capability for though. I have to say,

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oh, sorry, go ahead. With respect to, I

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mean, I guess a sort of a branch off of

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that is we deal with uh ordinance

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violations in blight and zoning and um

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that type of uh of a case regularly, uh

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daily, I'd say. Um we work very closely

271
00:39:01,359 --> 00:39:06,240
with the ordinance department. Um our

272
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:10,960
main goal, obviously, uh the city's main

273
00:39:06,240 --> 00:39:14,160
goal is compliance. Um, so we try to

274
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:17,280
work with the city uh the defendant

275
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:19,200
being charged with how to best uh go

276
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:21,680
about the goal of compliance, however

277
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:23,359
that may be. Uh, we know that some

278
00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:24,640
people are just not going to comply,

279
00:39:23,359 --> 00:39:27,440
which is fine. They have the right to

280
00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:30,320
have a trial and we do a jury trial and

281
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:31,599
present the evidence that we have um in

282
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:34,480
front of a jury and then the jury

283
00:39:31,599 --> 00:39:36,160
decides. So, we understand that not

284
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:38,400
everybody is going to comply or wants

285
00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:40,320
to. And in that sense, we'll just do a

286
00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:41,920
trial, let the jury decide.

287
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:44,560
» Yeah. And I would say lastly, just to

288
00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:46,480
wrap that uh question up, there's also a

289
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:49,440
variety of civil and administrative

290
00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:53,599
procedures that may be more appropriate

291
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:56,400
for um uh that type of environmental

292
00:39:53,599 --> 00:39:59,200
related issue. Um so for example a

293
00:39:56,400 --> 00:40:02,079
public nuisance case or perhaps um a

294
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:03,599
case related to uh fire protection

295
00:40:02,079 --> 00:40:05,599
because the fire protection code has

296
00:40:03,599 --> 00:40:07,040
some uh elements of it that relate to

297
00:40:05,599 --> 00:40:10,079
hazardous materials and things of that

298
00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:11,680
nature. Um so we would be to the extent

299
00:40:10,079 --> 00:40:13,599
an issue like that came our way in a

300
00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:15,280
prosecution role I think we would be

301
00:40:13,599 --> 00:40:17,520
looking at what the best way is to

302
00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:19,520
tackle it with the ultimate goal of

303
00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:21,760
compliance and and cost recovery to the

304
00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:22,960
extent the city uh has has suffered

305
00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:25,520
loss.

306
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:27,920
» Okay. you said something I just want to

307
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:30,400
piggy back off of that. So when you're

308
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:32,079
dealing with try people are you're

309
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:34,960
trying to get compliance that's really

310
00:40:32,079 --> 00:40:38,240
out the ultimate goal. How long do you

311
00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:40,079
recommend you go working on compliance

312
00:40:38,240 --> 00:40:42,079
before you say no this is enough we need

313
00:40:40,079 --> 00:40:44,000
to move this forward?

314
00:40:42,079 --> 00:40:46,320
» Um I think it's really case by case

315
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:47,680
basis honestly every defendant's

316
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:49,359
different every charge is different.

317
00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:53,760
Every circumstance is different right?

318
00:40:49,359 --> 00:40:57,680
So, we um what we'll do is is if it's a

319
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:59,839
it's an emergency situation, the city um

320
00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:02,800
the ordinance department sees that it's

321
00:40:59,839 --> 00:41:04,800
it's a public safety issue uh and it

322
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:06,720
needs to be addressed quickly. Um

323
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:09,040
usually by the time that the ordinance

324
00:41:06,720 --> 00:41:11,839
officer writes the ticket and I see it

325
00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:13,599
at the court, they've already tried uh

326
00:41:11,839 --> 00:41:15,359
talking to the person, trying to get

327
00:41:13,599 --> 00:41:17,359
compliance. Let's see if we can work on

328
00:41:15,359 --> 00:41:19,359
this with you. And if that's not

329
00:41:17,359 --> 00:41:21,520
happening, they get the ticket. So by

330
00:41:19,359 --> 00:41:23,440
the time I see it at that point at the

331
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:26,160
at the court level, they've already

332
00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:28,480
gotten some opportunities, if it's not a

333
00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:30,160
matter of extreme safety or hazardous

334
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:33,280
issues, I might give them an adjournment

335
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:35,680
a couple times uh two weeks or a month

336
00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:37,760
or so. Um if it's something that's just

337
00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:40,240
really not going to happen, uh because

338
00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:42,880
either they can't do it or won't do it.

339
00:41:40,240 --> 00:41:44,800
Um then at that point, again, that's

340
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:48,640
where you say, do you want a bench trial

341
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:50,560
or do you want a jury trial? Um and then

342
00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:52,319
again if it's if we have strength of

343
00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:53,680
evidence if we have all all if we have

344
00:41:52,319 --> 00:41:56,480
all the evidence that we need to move

345
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:59,359
forward at that point in time we just do

346
00:41:56,480 --> 00:42:01,040
the trial and you know I think dragging

347
00:41:59,359 --> 00:42:02,400
it on for months and months at a time is

348
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:04,560
not good for anybody. Everyone gets

349
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:06,800
frustrated by that and then at that

350
00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:08,319
point if that person's found guilty then

351
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:11,200
it's up to the judge to decide what to

352
00:42:08,319 --> 00:42:13,119
do. Uh if it's a if it's a criminal case

353
00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:15,040
if it's a civil case you know that's

354
00:42:13,119 --> 00:42:17,359
another story. Uh, but if we're talking

355
00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:19,520
about a misdemeanor that's in front of

356
00:42:17,359 --> 00:42:21,359
Judge Olirri and the person's found

357
00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:23,200
guilty, then the then the sentencing is

358
00:42:21,359 --> 00:42:27,240
up to her.

359
00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:27,240
» Okay. Councilwas,

360
00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:32,319
» Let's stay on that vein then. Go with

361
00:42:29,359 --> 00:42:34,480
number 12. Um, what experience do you

362
00:42:32,319 --> 00:42:38,480
have? Do you have any experience with um

363
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:41,119
habitual offenders andor difficult,

364
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:42,640
mentally ill or retaliatory uh

365
00:42:41,119 --> 00:42:45,839
violators?

366
00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:49,599
» We do. Yes. I I'd have to say for me um

367
00:42:45,839 --> 00:42:51,680
in all the years I I represented uh uh

368
00:42:49,599 --> 00:42:53,760
defendants as a court-appointed lawyer,

369
00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:56,000
I I I ran through my my share of

370
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:59,280
difficult people. Uh and now as a

371
00:42:56,000 --> 00:43:00,640
prosecutor, same um we [snorts] just I

372
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:03,440
just try to treat everybody with

373
00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:06,160
respect. Um uh but firmness. I treat

374
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:08,000
everybody the same. I offer the same

375
00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:10,960
plea deal. Not because I you know that

376
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:12,800
you've done or said X about me. The plea

377
00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:16,640
deal is the same. I don't take things

378
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:18,720
personal. Um, and I just try to remain

379
00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:20,960
as professional as I possibly can. If

380
00:43:18,720 --> 00:43:23,680
the person doesn't want to work out any

381
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:26,000
kind of resolution that might be uh be

382
00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:29,599
able to resolve the case for example

383
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:31,599
then again I done all I can and I I will

384
00:43:29,599 --> 00:43:33,440
we'll just ask for a trial and then then

385
00:43:31,599 --> 00:43:35,839
the if I have the evidence to move

386
00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:38,319
forward five witnesses and strength of

387
00:43:35,839 --> 00:43:39,760
case at that point in time we just set

388
00:43:38,319 --> 00:43:43,920
it for a trial and then the judge

389
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:46,319
decides um or a jury. Um, but I I guess

390
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:49,680
what I how I feel about that is is it it

391
00:43:46,319 --> 00:43:51,119
kind of comes with a job and um, you

392
00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:53,520
know, we just try to treat everybody

393
00:43:51,119 --> 00:43:55,440
with respect and do our job. I just want

394
00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:57,599
to be professional.

395
00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:59,920
» There's a number of instances where we

396
00:43:57,599 --> 00:44:01,599
run into people who have, you know,

397
00:43:59,920 --> 00:44:03,920
either mental health issues or they're

398
00:44:01,599 --> 00:44:06,560
just, you know, vindic vindictive or

399
00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:07,920
something like this. And uh I think

400
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:09,520
there's something to be said for the

401
00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:11,920
level of experience that we have that

402
00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:14,160
Jackie has in particular over all these

403
00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:16,400
years of of dealing with uh criminal

404
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:18,160
defendants both and believe it or not as

405
00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:19,440
the defense attorney sometimes you've

406
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:20,960
almost got a harder job dealing with

407
00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:22,560
your client trying to get them to be

408
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:24,880
reasonable you know and those sorts of

409
00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:27,040
things. So I have 100% confidence in

410
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:28,480
Jackie in that regard. Um but she's

411
00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:30,960
absolutely right. It does come with the

412
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:32,319
territory. It's something that uh in a

413
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:34,720
community that's really not all that far

414
00:44:32,319 --> 00:44:36,480
away uh and in a court that's uh quite a

415
00:44:34,720 --> 00:44:39,359
bit busier, we run into all sorts of

416
00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:41,200
people over there. Um you know, and uh

417
00:44:39,359 --> 00:44:43,920
and a lot of times that means dealing

418
00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:46,319
with uh some people that may uh bounce

419
00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:47,599
over from from Wayne into Westland to do

420
00:44:46,319 --> 00:44:49,440
something that we have to deal with and

421
00:44:47,599 --> 00:44:51,040
and vice versa. I'm sure you have uh

422
00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:52,880
some of our repeat offenders uh down

423
00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:54,160
here, too. Um, so there's been a number

424
00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:57,200
of different cases where we've had to

425
00:44:54,160 --> 00:44:59,599
deal with that. And, uh, my staff, uh,

426
00:44:57,200 --> 00:45:01,680
is always professional but firm in the

427
00:44:59,599 --> 00:45:04,160
way that they deal with these things

428
00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:06,160
because at the end of the day, we have a

429
00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:08,319
mission to accomplish, right? The

430
00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:10,079
mission is is as prosecutors, we're law

431
00:45:08,319 --> 00:45:12,800
enforcement uh, officials for the

432
00:45:10,079 --> 00:45:14,960
community that we serve. Um, and so that

433
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:17,760
means that we're based on a variety of

434
00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:19,040
factors. We're looking for how do we

435
00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:21,280
accomplish the goals that are in the

436
00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:23,200
best interest of the city and its and

437
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:25,119
its residents and it's really about

438
00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:28,119
justice which means holding people

439
00:45:25,119 --> 00:45:28,119
accountable.

440
00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:36,240
» Okay. Uh Mayor Proto,

441
00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:37,760
» This has to do with process and any

442
00:45:36,240 --> 00:45:39,040
this has to do with process and any

443
00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:41,839
experience you may have had in this

444
00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:43,680
vein. Uh is there anything that you

445
00:45:41,839 --> 00:45:46,240
could or feel you could do as a city

446
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:50,359
prosecutor to improve the efficiency of

447
00:45:46,240 --> 00:45:50,359
any city court operations?

448
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:55,280
Yeah, I'll take that. Um, I think you I

449
00:45:53,839 --> 00:45:57,520
think these are tough questions and it's

450
00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:59,920
a good question. Uh, but it almost

451
00:45:57,520 --> 00:46:01,359
presupposes that we we come in with some

452
00:45:59,920 --> 00:46:02,960
preconceived notions about how things

453
00:46:01,359 --> 00:46:04,880
are done here, which we really don't

454
00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:06,880
have quite truthfully. I mean, uh, may

455
00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:08,640
have may have taken some time to flip

456
00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:10,880
through a couple of ordinances or the

457
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:12,319
charter or something like that. Um, but

458
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:13,920
but right now we don't know what we

459
00:46:12,319 --> 00:46:16,319
don't know. And so I think there's an

460
00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:18,800
element of who are the people with boots

461
00:46:16,319 --> 00:46:20,319
on the ground uh that are that are

462
00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:22,000
trying to get I'll just use an example

463
00:46:20,319 --> 00:46:23,440
of blight, right? Who are the people

464
00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:25,280
with boots on the ground trying to gain

465
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:27,520
compliance with blight? Presumably

466
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:30,240
they're writing tickets or or seeking

467
00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:32,400
warrant requests. And what challenges

468
00:46:30,240 --> 00:46:34,319
are they having or seeing over at the

469
00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:36,240
court with these cases either not

470
00:46:34,319 --> 00:46:38,079
getting uh maybe they're getting

471
00:46:36,240 --> 00:46:39,280
dismissed for one reason or another um

472
00:46:38,079 --> 00:46:40,480
or there could be any number of

473
00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:42,000
different problems. And the same thing

474
00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:44,160
with the police department, right?

475
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:46,160
they're out there boots on the ground uh

476
00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:48,240
and and maybe working on crime in a

477
00:46:46,160 --> 00:46:49,839
certain area or certain types of crime

478
00:46:48,240 --> 00:46:51,440
and so what are they seeing? What

479
00:46:49,839 --> 00:46:55,119
challenges are they experiencing or

480
00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:57,040
seeing firsthand uh at the court? And

481
00:46:55,119 --> 00:46:58,720
then what is city management seeing?

482
00:46:57,040 --> 00:47:00,560
What is the city council seeing? So I

483
00:46:58,720 --> 00:47:02,400
think in terms of process, it's really a

484
00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:04,880
question of how do we manage the

485
00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:07,599
transition and do the factf finding

486
00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:09,599
sufficient to be able to identify the

487
00:47:07,599 --> 00:47:11,599
areas that are ripe for improvement and

488
00:47:09,599 --> 00:47:12,960
the things that are working well. We're

489
00:47:11,599 --> 00:47:15,760
not trying to come in and change those

490
00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:17,599
things, right? Uh maybe at some point we

491
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:18,800
identify additional efficiencies. I

492
00:47:17,599 --> 00:47:20,880
think the starting point is a little bit

493
00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:23,119
of triage. That's how I would approach

494
00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:24,800
that.

495
00:47:23,119 --> 00:47:27,599
» Okay.

496
00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:29,359
Are there any matters you would or would

497
00:47:27,599 --> 00:47:31,440
not provide counsel to our police

498
00:47:29,359 --> 00:47:34,000
department on when you're when they're

499
00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:35,839
dealing with issues?

500
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:37,359
» No.

501
00:47:35,839 --> 00:47:40,160
» Is a one- word answer. Okay.

502
00:47:37,359 --> 00:47:42,560
» It's fine. I I I would say that I I

503
00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:44,960
speak to our police department on a

504
00:47:42,560 --> 00:47:48,960
daily basis about something or another.

505
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:50,720
Um I uh do all of their new officer

506
00:47:48,960 --> 00:47:55,599
training um [clears throat] when they

507
00:47:50,720 --> 00:47:57,440
come in as new cadetses. Um I do um

508
00:47:55,599 --> 00:47:59,839
legal training, I'd say once a year at

509
00:47:57,440 --> 00:48:01,599
least for the full department on any

510
00:47:59,839 --> 00:48:03,040
kind of new legal updates or any kind of

511
00:48:01,599 --> 00:48:04,400
questions or issues I've been seeing

512
00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:06,160
over at the court. something that I

513
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:10,480
would like them to focus on and improve

514
00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:13,280
on and maybe do some some work on. Um I

515
00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:15,440
talk to them regularly about um warrant

516
00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:19,280
requests and issues they may be having

517
00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:21,760
with cases. Um I would say like I said I

518
00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:23,280
I they have my cell phone number. Most

519
00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:25,200
of them when I do new officer training,

520
00:48:23,280 --> 00:48:26,960
I give them my my cell phone number. If

521
00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:29,119
you ever had any issues or questions or

522
00:48:26,960 --> 00:48:32,640
anything as you're starting out, uh ask

523
00:48:29,119 --> 00:48:34,000
me directly. Um, and I'd say the whole

524
00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:35,359
detective bureau has my cell phone

525
00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:36,559
number in case there's ever a question

526
00:48:35,359 --> 00:48:38,880
about anything that they're working on

527
00:48:36,559 --> 00:48:40,240
and we talk on a on a regular basis. I'd

528
00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:42,640
say we have a very good relationship

529
00:48:40,240 --> 00:48:45,920
with our our police department.

530
00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:49,200
» Okay. Uh, Councilwoman Lawrence,

531
00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:51,440
» Um, define discretion as an appeals to

532
00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:55,319
your role as a city prosecutor. How

533
00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:55,319
would you use this?

534
00:48:55,520 --> 00:49:01,040
So prosecutorial discretion,

535
00:48:58,559 --> 00:49:03,280
I think about with respect to that

536
00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:05,920
whether to charge,

537
00:49:03,280 --> 00:49:10,400
whether to make a plea deal,

538
00:49:05,920 --> 00:49:13,599
um, and how best to advocate for for

539
00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:16,960
justice, for victim restitution,

540
00:49:13,599 --> 00:49:19,200
uh, and and for the city's interests.

541
00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:21,040
So that's how I would define discretion.

542
00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:23,760
I I guess I'd ask Jackie to talk a

543
00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:26,400
little bit about the factors that go

544
00:49:23,760 --> 00:49:28,160
into the use of discretion, but that's

545
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:30,880
how I think about discretion is in terms

546
00:49:28,160 --> 00:49:33,280
of, you know, whether we're going to do

547
00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:35,680
option A or option B.

548
00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:37,760
» So, I usually take into consideration

549
00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:40,720
the strength of the case. Um, do I have

550
00:49:37,760 --> 00:49:42,240
a good case to move forward? Um, that

551
00:49:40,720 --> 00:49:45,599
obviously has to do with evidence,

552
00:49:42,240 --> 00:49:48,240
witnesses, um, police report, uh,

553
00:49:45,599 --> 00:49:50,480
supporting documents. Um, so do I have

554
00:49:48,240 --> 00:49:53,440
enough evidences first? I'm not gonna I

555
00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:56,240
don't prosecute uh to win. I'm not here

556
00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:59,200
to keep track of wins and losses or how

557
00:49:56,240 --> 00:50:01,520
many people I prosecute in a day. Um, as

558
00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:03,440
as Brandon already said, it's is to see

559
00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:05,359
that justice is served. I mean, as a as

560
00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:09,040
a quick sentence, but that is what it

561
00:50:05,359 --> 00:50:10,319
is. I take that very seriously. Um, what

562
00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:12,079
does the victim want to do with the

563
00:50:10,319 --> 00:50:13,599
case? Um, I always take that in

564
00:50:12,079 --> 00:50:16,000
consideration. If it's a crime of the

565
00:50:13,599 --> 00:50:18,000
victim, I have discussions with that

566
00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:20,559
person. How do you want to proceed? We

567
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:22,640
we're a team. I represent the city. Uh

568
00:50:20,559 --> 00:50:24,160
however, if you know, I take into

569
00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:25,520
consideration your interests, your

570
00:50:24,160 --> 00:50:28,319
concerns. What do you want to happen

571
00:50:25,520 --> 00:50:31,839
with the case and the public safety? Um

572
00:50:28,319 --> 00:50:35,119
so sometimes if a victim doesn't want to

573
00:50:31,839 --> 00:50:37,359
proceed, I and I decide, well, this is,

574
00:50:35,119 --> 00:50:39,839
you know, I'm I'm understand what you're

575
00:50:37,359 --> 00:50:42,160
what you're feeling. However, you know,

576
00:50:39,839 --> 00:50:44,720
this person or say this person has a

577
00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:46,720
trial that was involved. I I have to be

578
00:50:44,720 --> 00:50:50,000
I have to look out for that person if

579
00:50:46,720 --> 00:50:52,800
even if you don't really want to. So I

580
00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:55,119
take into consideration public safety,

581
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:56,640
welfare, the city's interests, all these

582
00:50:55,119 --> 00:50:58,480
things into trying to decide how to

583
00:50:56,640 --> 00:51:01,359
handle a case. And again, it's a

584
00:50:58,480 --> 00:51:03,599
case-byase basis and and I take into

585
00:51:01,359 --> 00:51:05,359
those factors every case that I proceed

586
00:51:03,599 --> 00:51:06,880
on or not.

587
00:51:05,359 --> 00:51:10,000
I think I want to say one more thing

588
00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:13,200
about that. Um, which is that we also

589
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:15,359
look at the compliance likelihood,

590
00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:18,480
right? And the deterrent effect of the

591
00:51:15,359 --> 00:51:20,400
decisions that we make. Um, so for a

592
00:51:18,480 --> 00:51:22,559
first I mean I'm and I'm just not to use

593
00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:24,400
any specific examples, but you've got a

594
00:51:22,559 --> 00:51:27,280
first-time offender who's likely not to

595
00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:30,240
reaffend again. Um, you know, maybe that

596
00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:32,880
is a case that makes sense uh to have a

597
00:51:30,240 --> 00:51:34,480
plea deal of a certain sort. Uh but

598
00:51:32,880 --> 00:51:35,839
maybe that same deal doesn't really make

599
00:51:34,480 --> 00:51:38,079
sense for somebody who's running around

600
00:51:35,839 --> 00:51:41,839
town uh causing all kinds of problems

601
00:51:38,079 --> 00:51:44,079
and seems to show no uh concern for

602
00:51:41,839 --> 00:51:45,520
amending their behavior. Right? So I

603
00:51:44,079 --> 00:51:47,280
think I think you know those are the

604
00:51:45,520 --> 00:51:49,280
kinds of things that we would be taking

605
00:51:47,280 --> 00:51:53,920
into consideration and thinking about

606
00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:56,319
when exercising uh discretion.

607
00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:58,480
» Okay. Councilwoman was

608
00:51:56,319 --> 00:52:00,160
» Can I ask one not on here?

609
00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:02,400
» Yeah. You just got to be able to do do

610
00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:05,200
it again later. You just got to remember

611
00:52:02,400 --> 00:52:06,640
what it is the question for later.

612
00:52:05,200 --> 00:52:08,240
» You have to do the same question for

613
00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:10,079
everybody. This thing.

614
00:52:08,240 --> 00:52:11,520
» Oh, okay. Well, I want to ask this

615
00:52:10,079 --> 00:52:12,960
question to everybody.

616
00:52:11,520 --> 00:52:15,920
» Just write just make sure you can do it

617
00:52:12,960 --> 00:52:19,760
again. That's all.

618
00:52:15,920 --> 00:52:22,960
» How familiar are you with the cases we

619
00:52:19,760 --> 00:52:26,880
currently have going on?

620
00:52:22,960 --> 00:52:29,200
» We have some familiarity. Um we don't I

621
00:52:26,880 --> 00:52:30,640
mean I I've you know I understand that

622
00:52:29,200 --> 00:52:33,119
there's certain things going on in town

623
00:52:30,640 --> 00:52:35,520
right now. Um a number of prosay

624
00:52:33,119 --> 00:52:37,200
lawsuits for example uh there's even

625
00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:39,280
some cases that have made their way into

626
00:52:37,200 --> 00:52:41,280
the 18th district court uh for a variety

627
00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:43,760
of reasons um related to the city of

628
00:52:41,280 --> 00:52:46,640
Wayne. Uh so we have some familiarity.

629
00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:49,839
Uh but I have not uh done a deep dive

630
00:52:46,640 --> 00:52:51,359
into the situation to you know frankly

631
00:52:49,839 --> 00:52:53,599
because it's not right part of my

632
00:52:51,359 --> 00:52:54,720
current role. But but at some level

633
00:52:53,599 --> 00:52:56,400
obviously we would need to understand

634
00:52:54,720 --> 00:52:58,720
that.

635
00:52:56,400 --> 00:53:00,160
» Just making sure that we're aware of

636
00:52:58,720 --> 00:53:01,839
what you're getting your feet into. You

637
00:53:00,160 --> 00:53:03,359
know what I mean? That's you know

638
00:53:01,839 --> 00:53:04,079
» You have an understanding of this. Yes.

639
00:53:03,359 --> 00:53:04,559
Thank you.

640
00:53:04,079 --> 00:53:06,559
» Okay.

641
00:53:04,559 --> 00:53:07,839
» A fair a fair comment [snorts] though.

642
00:53:06,559 --> 00:53:09,839
» Okay.

643
00:53:07,839 --> 00:53:12,720
» Mor prom.

644
00:53:09,839 --> 00:53:14,720
» This question has se this question has

645
00:53:12,720 --> 00:53:16,160
several parts in it and they're going to

646
00:53:14,720 --> 00:53:19,200
be yes or no.

647
00:53:16,160 --> 00:53:21,119
» They're related to um

648
00:53:19,200 --> 00:53:22,400
uh interpreting and enforcing certain

649
00:53:21,119 --> 00:53:24,240
codes.

650
00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:26,240
uh for reasons of things that are going

651
00:53:24,240 --> 00:53:29,040
on right now. So, regular business, but

652
00:53:26,240 --> 00:53:31,359
there are plans in the city to um uh

653
00:53:29,040 --> 00:53:34,240
continue with modernization. So, it it

654
00:53:31,359 --> 00:53:37,040
your assistance in that case will be and

655
00:53:34,240 --> 00:53:39,520
that that part of it will most likely

656
00:53:37,040 --> 00:53:41,839
would most likely be more important. So,

657
00:53:39,520 --> 00:53:44,240
it's just a yes or no. Uh do you have

658
00:53:41,839 --> 00:53:46,240
experience interpreting and enforcing

659
00:53:44,240 --> 00:53:47,920
the following codes? Right. And I'll

660
00:53:46,240 --> 00:53:49,359
I'll do one at a time if that's okay. We

661
00:53:47,920 --> 00:53:51,440
don't need to explain Shar.

662
00:53:49,359 --> 00:53:52,640
» Please. Yes. The Michigan Building Code,

663
00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:53,760
» Yes.

664
00:53:52,640 --> 00:53:54,319
» Residential code,

665
00:53:53,760 --> 00:53:55,359
» Yes.

666
00:53:54,319 --> 00:53:55,920
» Mechanical code,

667
00:53:55,359 --> 00:53:56,880
» Yes.

668
00:53:55,920 --> 00:53:57,440
» Plumbing code,

669
00:53:56,880 --> 00:53:58,400
» Yes.

670
00:53:57,440 --> 00:53:58,960
» Electrical code,

671
00:53:58,400 --> 00:53:59,920
» Yes.

672
00:53:58,960 --> 00:54:00,559
» Fire code,

673
00:53:59,920 --> 00:54:02,880
» Yes.

674
00:54:00,559 --> 00:54:03,680
» Property manage maintenance code.

675
00:54:02,880 --> 00:54:06,640
» Yes.

676
00:54:03,680 --> 00:54:08,559
» And thank you very much.

677
00:54:06,640 --> 00:54:12,800
» Okay.

678
00:54:08,559 --> 00:54:16,359
» Um, what do you think your role is as uh

679
00:54:12,800 --> 00:54:16,359
the city prosecutor?

680
00:54:19,280 --> 00:54:23,440
So I compare the role in some sense,

681
00:54:22,079 --> 00:54:24,800
right? You've got a county prosecutor.

682
00:54:23,440 --> 00:54:28,960
They're like the chief law enforcement

683
00:54:24,800 --> 00:54:30,640
official in the county. Um so you've got

684
00:54:28,960 --> 00:54:32,319
a difference in scale, right? And

685
00:54:30,640 --> 00:54:33,760
there's some difference in the types of

686
00:54:32,319 --> 00:54:36,079
things that a city prosecutor can do

687
00:54:33,760 --> 00:54:39,119
versus what a county prosecutor can do.

688
00:54:36,079 --> 00:54:42,079
But it's a law enforcement position.

689
00:54:39,119 --> 00:54:44,480
Basically, it's a it's a uh it's a

690
00:54:42,079 --> 00:54:46,079
position where

691
00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:47,280
based on what the charter says, I I

692
00:54:46,079 --> 00:54:49,520
assume it's similar to other city

693
00:54:47,280 --> 00:54:51,040
charters, but uh the city attorney or

694
00:54:49,520 --> 00:54:54,319
the city prosecutor in this case is

695
00:54:51,040 --> 00:54:57,680
responsible for uh enforcement of the

696
00:54:54,319 --> 00:54:59,119
laws of the city.

697
00:54:57,680 --> 00:55:01,440
» Jackie, did you want to add to that or

698
00:54:59,119 --> 00:55:04,240
» No, I just that I mean to bottom line it

699
00:55:01,440 --> 00:55:06,079
that's exactly the rule. Um, of course

700
00:55:04,240 --> 00:55:08,880
there's there's different subsections to

701
00:55:06,079 --> 00:55:10,400
it. Um, that I kind of covered with

702
00:55:08,880 --> 00:55:13,920
respect to the the question on

703
00:55:10,400 --> 00:55:16,480
discretion. Um, but as part of being a

704
00:55:13,920 --> 00:55:19,680
prosecutor in the city, you have to use

705
00:55:16,480 --> 00:55:21,359
discretion on a daily basis. Um, you

706
00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:23,280
also have to understand that that

707
00:55:21,359 --> 00:55:25,680
because you're you're a law enforcement

708
00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:28,880
agent that that comes with certain

709
00:55:25,680 --> 00:55:32,480
powers. Uh, and I'm very mindful of

710
00:55:28,880 --> 00:55:35,040
that. Um, I know that Brandon is too. So

711
00:55:32,480 --> 00:55:37,920
using discretion is important. Um making

712
00:55:35,040 --> 00:55:42,160
sure that that everyone's rights are

713
00:55:37,920 --> 00:55:43,520
equally um concerned and um

714
00:55:42,160 --> 00:55:45,040
basically like I said to see that

715
00:55:43,520 --> 00:55:47,680
justice is done and that's a that's a

716
00:55:45,040 --> 00:55:49,119
simple way of saying it but I do every

717
00:55:47,680 --> 00:55:51,040
day but when I go to work that's that's

718
00:55:49,119 --> 00:55:53,680
the way I feel and I've been doing that

719
00:55:51,040 --> 00:55:56,319
for lots of years but I keep that in my

720
00:55:53,680 --> 00:55:58,799
mind every time I'm there.

721
00:55:56,319 --> 00:56:00,720
Now, when if you were to be hired, would

722
00:55:58,799 --> 00:56:02,319
you come in and then look at what do we

723
00:56:00,720 --> 00:56:04,880
have and if you see something that's

724
00:56:02,319 --> 00:56:07,920
problem, would you make it aware or how

725
00:56:04,880 --> 00:56:08,480
you how do you normally handle that?

726
00:56:07,920 --> 00:56:10,000
» Absolutely.

727
00:56:08,480 --> 00:56:10,559
» When you're going through with all that

728
00:56:10,000 --> 00:56:11,839
stuff, you know.

729
00:56:10,559 --> 00:56:13,680
» Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We're I mean, we're

730
00:56:11,839 --> 00:56:15,200
constantly having conversations with

731
00:56:13,680 --> 00:56:18,000
client representatives about different

732
00:56:15,200 --> 00:56:20,640
issues or coming up with ideas maybe for

733
00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:22,400
ordinances as an example. um you know

734
00:56:20,640 --> 00:56:24,240
that hey maybe you know we're seeing

735
00:56:22,400 --> 00:56:26,240
some of this maybe that means we should

736
00:56:24,240 --> 00:56:28,000
change this ordinance right in order to

737
00:56:26,240 --> 00:56:30,720
cover that activity

738
00:56:28,000 --> 00:56:32,559
» It's really driven by the people who are

739
00:56:30,720 --> 00:56:35,359
writing the tickets and then what you

740
00:56:32,559 --> 00:56:36,960
see at court I mean we just identified

741
00:56:35,359 --> 00:56:40,559
an issue with an ordinance that we've

742
00:56:36,960 --> 00:56:42,880
had on the books forever and somebody

743
00:56:40,559 --> 00:56:44,559
noticed that there was a comma missing

744
00:56:42,880 --> 00:56:48,400
and it really changed the way that you

745
00:56:44,559 --> 00:56:50,480
read the whole ordinance and so that's a

746
00:56:48,400 --> 00:56:51,599
you know oh Okay. Well, that's something

747
00:56:50,480 --> 00:56:53,040
that's been in the books for a long

748
00:56:51,599 --> 00:56:56,160
time, but it's something that was

749
00:56:53,040 --> 00:56:57,599
brought up recently that okay, now we

750
00:56:56,160 --> 00:56:59,200
got to change the way we look at that

751
00:56:57,599 --> 00:57:01,760
and change the and possibly change the

752
00:56:59,200 --> 00:57:03,359
ordinance. So, it's it's driven by what

753
00:57:01,760 --> 00:57:05,280
you see like like Brandon already

754
00:57:03,359 --> 00:57:07,760
indicated, boots on the ground. And so,

755
00:57:05,280 --> 00:57:09,359
having a meeting with those people that

756
00:57:07,760 --> 00:57:12,799
what and then seeing what happens at the

757
00:57:09,359 --> 00:57:14,480
court level will start that process.

758
00:57:12,799 --> 00:57:16,319
We'll be able to see where the holes are

759
00:57:14,480 --> 00:57:17,839
to try to fill them. And just to be

760
00:57:16,319 --> 00:57:19,359
clear, we're not we're not like running

761
00:57:17,839 --> 00:57:21,119
around out there just changing

762
00:57:19,359 --> 00:57:22,640
ordinances like this. These are things

763
00:57:21,119 --> 00:57:24,400
there's a chain of command involved in

764
00:57:22,640 --> 00:57:25,599
it, right?

765
00:57:24,400 --> 00:57:27,200
So I just don't want I don't want to

766
00:57:25,599 --> 00:57:28,880
give the misimpression that we're you

767
00:57:27,200 --> 00:57:30,720
know talking to patrol officers and then

768
00:57:28,880 --> 00:57:32,400
writing up ordinances without sort of

769
00:57:30,720 --> 00:57:34,079
going through proper channels.

770
00:57:32,400 --> 00:57:35,760
» No, but I I'm figuring you're you're

771
00:57:34,079 --> 00:57:36,640
prosecuting you see it and if there's a

772
00:57:35,760 --> 00:57:38,400
problem that

773
00:57:36,640 --> 00:57:39,839
» We we've dealt with different things,

774
00:57:38,400 --> 00:57:41,680
people coming and having a question

775
00:57:39,839 --> 00:57:44,160
about something and we found out, oh,

776
00:57:41,680 --> 00:57:46,400
that got changed. Things change.

777
00:57:44,160 --> 00:57:48,480
you have something in writing one way

778
00:57:46,400 --> 00:57:50,000
and it you find out it's different. It

779
00:57:48,480 --> 00:57:52,559
gets changed at the federal level or

780
00:57:50,000 --> 00:57:53,040
state level and it it voids something or

781
00:57:52,559 --> 00:57:54,640
whatever.

782
00:57:53,040 --> 00:57:56,319
» Sure. Yeah. State laws change and then

783
00:57:54,640 --> 00:57:58,480
it affects the way the ordinances are

784
00:57:56,319 --> 00:57:59,599
and and we're we're mindful of that too.

785
00:57:58,480 --> 00:58:00,559
Yeah.

786
00:57:59,599 --> 00:58:03,040
» Okay.

787
00:58:00,559 --> 00:58:06,240
» Our clock is off. I know that. But so at

788
00:58:03,040 --> 00:58:09,119
this point, let you just g give us uh

789
00:58:06,240 --> 00:58:12,079
your your final push or whatever you

790
00:58:09,119 --> 00:58:13,520
want to call it and uh what you want to

791
00:58:12,079 --> 00:58:15,440
anything questions you have for us or

792
00:58:13,520 --> 00:58:18,720
anything else you wanted to say.

793
00:58:15,440 --> 00:58:21,680
» Sure. Um

794
00:58:18,720 --> 00:58:24,319
I guess I guess by way of question

795
00:58:21,680 --> 00:58:26,559
is

796
00:58:24,319 --> 00:58:28,640
can this be a collaborative role? I mean

797
00:58:26,559 --> 00:58:30,559
or is it just show up to court and deal

798
00:58:28,640 --> 00:58:31,839
with the tickets that you get? I mean we

799
00:58:30,559 --> 00:58:33,200
can do either, right? Obviously, I

800
00:58:31,839 --> 00:58:35,280
prefer a more collaborative kind of

801
00:58:33,200 --> 00:58:37,280
process where we're able to provide

802
00:58:35,280 --> 00:58:39,680
value that, you know, is not just

803
00:58:37,280 --> 00:58:41,440
limited to uh, you know, you show up to

804
00:58:39,680 --> 00:58:43,119
court and then you never see the client.

805
00:58:41,440 --> 00:58:45,200
Um, I don't know what's been the

806
00:58:43,119 --> 00:58:46,720
experience of city management or city

807
00:58:45,200 --> 00:58:48,480
council in that regard, but those are

808
00:58:46,720 --> 00:58:49,920
things I'd be interested in. Even if you

809
00:58:48,480 --> 00:58:50,960
can't answer today, that's okay, but

810
00:58:49,920 --> 00:58:52,480
yeah, those are things I'd be interested

811
00:58:50,960 --> 00:58:54,640
in having more discussions about.

812
00:58:52,480 --> 00:58:57,040
» So, you prefer a more collaborative role

813
00:58:54,640 --> 00:58:58,000
with the city is what you're saying?

814
00:58:57,040 --> 00:59:00,559
» Yes, absolutely.

815
00:58:58,000 --> 00:59:02,319
» Okay. And I mentioned this last time,

816
00:59:00,559 --> 00:59:03,839
um, and I know we're not here to talk

817
00:59:02,319 --> 00:59:06,559
about general counsel, and last time we

818
00:59:03,839 --> 00:59:08,880
weren't there to talk about prosecution,

819
00:59:06,559 --> 00:59:12,000
but I just can't stress enough that I

820
00:59:08,880 --> 00:59:14,640
see such a such an incredible value in

821
00:59:12,000 --> 00:59:17,040
having uh the general counsel function

822
00:59:14,640 --> 00:59:19,200
and the prosecution function under one

823
00:59:17,040 --> 00:59:20,559
uh sort of roof, right? Because just

824
00:59:19,200 --> 00:59:22,640
like some of the questions that we

825
00:59:20,559 --> 00:59:24,000
talked about, uh, for example, all those

826
00:59:22,640 --> 00:59:26,160
different building codes and mechanical

827
00:59:24,000 --> 00:59:28,799
codes and things like that, those can be

828
00:59:26,160 --> 00:59:30,720
criminal or or or civil infraction type

829
00:59:28,799 --> 00:59:33,280
violations that may get enforced through

830
00:59:30,720 --> 00:59:35,200
the district court. Those also could be

831
00:59:33,280 --> 00:59:36,880
problems that have to be addressed

832
00:59:35,200 --> 00:59:39,680
civily through something like a public

833
00:59:36,880 --> 00:59:41,920
nuisance claim. Um, and if you don't

834
00:59:39,680 --> 00:59:43,839
have a general counsel that's kind of

835
00:59:41,920 --> 00:59:45,119
doing the civil stuff and a prosecutor

836
00:59:43,839 --> 00:59:46,799
that's kind of dealing with the criminal

837
00:59:45,119 --> 00:59:48,720
stuff and they're not talking to each

838
00:59:46,799 --> 00:59:50,400
other, it just strikes me that there

839
00:59:48,720 --> 00:59:52,400
could be there could be real value to

840
00:59:50,400 --> 00:59:54,640
the collaboration that can occur when

841
00:59:52,400 --> 00:59:56,319
you have uh those sort of functions

842
00:59:54,640 --> 00:59:58,079
combined.

843
00:59:56,319 --> 01:00:00,079
» Okay.

844
00:59:58,079 --> 01:00:02,480
Anything else from council?

845
01:00:00,079 --> 01:00:06,526
» I won't take that personally. Uh

846
01:00:02,480 --> 01:00:06,526
laughing at me, I'm sure, but [laughter]

847
01:00:06,960 --> 01:00:10,160
she's trying to Go ahead.

848
01:00:08,160 --> 01:00:12,240
» Um and and then just the closing thought

849
01:00:10,160 --> 01:00:14,400
I would share I suppose is just our

850
01:00:12,240 --> 01:00:16,640
again um not to sound like a broken

851
01:00:14,400 --> 01:00:20,079
record but just our focus on community.

852
01:00:16,640 --> 01:00:21,119
Um you know that if we're if we're

853
01:00:20,079 --> 01:00:22,480
retained and maybe even if we're not

854
01:00:21,119 --> 01:00:24,880
retained quite frankly I'm in the area

855
01:00:22,480 --> 01:00:25,680
enough um but you're going to see us

856
01:00:24,880 --> 01:00:27,119
you're going to see us in your

857
01:00:25,680 --> 01:00:29,520
community. You're going to see us at

858
01:00:27,119 --> 01:00:31,599
city events, uh, you know, police

859
01:00:29,520 --> 01:00:33,119
fundraisers to the extent you have them,

860
01:00:31,599 --> 01:00:34,480
chamber events, those sorts of things

861
01:00:33,119 --> 01:00:36,240
because that's the type of people that

862
01:00:34,480 --> 01:00:37,920
we are and those are the relationships

863
01:00:36,240 --> 01:00:39,760
that we want to have with our clients,

864
01:00:37,920 --> 01:00:41,440
right? Where maybe you start a client

865
01:00:39,760 --> 01:00:43,119
and and you sort of develop a

866
01:00:41,440 --> 01:00:46,160
professional relationship and maybe even

867
01:00:43,119 --> 01:00:48,640
over time um, it becomes closer.

868
01:00:46,160 --> 01:00:49,440
» Okay. Well, we appreciate you coming out

869
01:00:48,640 --> 01:00:50,880
tonight.

870
01:00:49,440 --> 01:00:53,200
» Well, thank you very much for having us.

871
01:00:50,880 --> 01:00:53,839
We, you know, hope to see the next phase

872
01:00:53,200 --> 01:00:56,720
of the process.

873
01:00:53,839 --> 01:00:57,359
» Thank you for being last first. Yeah.

874
01:00:56,720 --> 01:00:59,119
» Thank you.

875
01:00:57,359 --> 01:01:00,559
» Thank you.

876
01:00:59,119 --> 01:01:03,559
» Okay, we're going to take a five minute

877
01:01:00,559 --> 01:01:03,559
break.

878
01:04:46,559 --> 01:04:53,280
Okay, we're off to the next one. This is

879
01:04:49,280 --> 01:04:55,760
um G Marco Mullins and Horton. Uh if you

880
01:04:53,280 --> 01:04:57,839
want to introduce yourself to begin

881
01:04:55,760 --> 01:05:01,520
with. Uh good afternoon, mayor, mayor

882
01:04:57,839 --> 01:05:04,400
promp council, city manager, city clerk,

883
01:05:01,520 --> 01:05:08,319
chief. Uh my name is Carrie Miller. Um

884
01:05:04,400 --> 01:05:10,960
and I am your current city prosecutor.

885
01:05:08,319 --> 01:05:13,920
So it's very nice to see you guys. Um

886
01:05:10,960 --> 01:05:16,480
I'm uh with GM Marco Mullins and Horton.

887
01:05:13,920 --> 01:05:18,400
I've been with them for 10 years. I

888
01:05:16,480 --> 01:05:23,680
believe I've been your city prosecutor

889
01:05:18,400 --> 01:05:27,520
for eight, maybe nine. um been through

890
01:05:23,680 --> 01:05:30,319
two judges, four building officials,

891
01:05:27,520 --> 01:05:34,799
three city managers,

892
01:05:30,319 --> 01:05:38,240
two judges, I say that. Um so yeah, two

893
01:05:34,799 --> 01:05:39,760
chiefs of police and two court

894
01:05:38,240 --> 01:05:42,640
administrators,

895
01:05:39,760 --> 01:05:45,039
some different faces on council. Um but

896
01:05:42,640 --> 01:05:48,240
it's nice to see you all tonight. So

897
01:05:45,039 --> 01:05:51,119
that's uh that's me.

898
01:05:48,240 --> 01:05:52,720
» Okay. Um,

899
01:05:51,119 --> 01:05:54,880
you want to give us some of your

900
01:05:52,720 --> 01:05:58,240
professional bio years of relevant

901
01:05:54,880 --> 01:06:00,000
experience, which you just did. Um,

902
01:05:58,240 --> 01:06:01,839
» How many other municipalities you

903
01:06:00,000 --> 01:06:04,160
currently serve, availability per the

904
01:06:01,839 --> 01:06:05,680
judge's request, and backup when

905
01:06:04,160 --> 01:06:06,720
necessary, and hourly rate.

906
01:06:05,680 --> 01:06:11,039
» Sure. which

907
01:06:06,720 --> 01:06:14,319
» Um so I became a lawyer in 2004

908
01:06:11,039 --> 01:06:16,559
and I immediately started clerking for a

909
01:06:14,319 --> 01:06:19,520
judge at circuit court in Oakland County

910
01:06:16,559 --> 01:06:21,200
who was uh Ed Snaznik who is an amazing

911
01:06:19,520 --> 01:06:22,880
human being who passed away a couple

912
01:06:21,200 --> 01:06:24,240
years ago which is really unfortunate

913
01:06:22,880 --> 01:06:26,799
because he left quite a mark on the

914
01:06:24,240 --> 01:06:29,280
legal profession. Um when I was working

915
01:06:26,799 --> 01:06:31,119
for him he had been a prosecutor and

916
01:06:29,280 --> 01:06:32,880
then he became a judge at the 48th

917
01:06:31,119 --> 01:06:35,920
district court and then circuit court.

918
01:06:32,880 --> 01:06:37,920
So, um, he inspired me to go into

919
01:06:35,920 --> 01:06:40,720
prosecution. Criminal law was my

920
01:06:37,920 --> 01:06:43,760
favorite class in law school. So, I went

921
01:06:40,720 --> 01:06:47,039
right from clerking into prosecution in

922
01:06:43,760 --> 01:06:50,799
2006 and have done nothing else for 20

923
01:06:47,039 --> 01:06:52,400
years um, in law but that. Um, so I went

924
01:06:50,799 --> 01:06:55,680
to the Oakland County Prosecutor's

925
01:06:52,400 --> 01:06:58,079
Office where I was at for 15 years. I

926
01:06:55,680 --> 01:07:00,880
started out in the warrants division and

927
01:06:58,079 --> 01:07:04,000
worked all the way up to um, felony

928
01:07:00,880 --> 01:07:07,839
court. um tried drug cases, child abuse

929
01:07:04,000 --> 01:07:09,760
cases, juvenile cases, uh general cases,

930
01:07:07,839 --> 01:07:11,920
wrote warrants on everything. I was in

931
01:07:09,760 --> 01:07:15,520
the forfeite division for quite some

932
01:07:11,920 --> 01:07:18,240
time. Um so I did that for um a long

933
01:07:15,520 --> 01:07:20,559
time and then I decided that I would go

934
01:07:18,240 --> 01:07:23,440
into private practice. Was lucky enough

935
01:07:20,559 --> 01:07:28,720
to be hired by uh GMH

936
01:07:23,440 --> 01:07:30,799
in 2018 and so I started there and um my

937
01:07:28,720 --> 01:07:33,760
first big client there was the city of

938
01:07:30,799 --> 01:07:35,440
Pontiac um which was was pretty large

939
01:07:33,760 --> 01:07:38,000
and I was used to that one because that

940
01:07:35,440 --> 01:07:40,240
was in Oakland County. So then um I

941
01:07:38,000 --> 01:07:42,160
started to get contracts outside of

942
01:07:40,240 --> 01:07:43,760
Oakland County and got to practice in

943
01:07:42,160 --> 01:07:47,039
Wayne County for the first time which

944
01:07:43,760 --> 01:07:49,760
was um a whole new world and uh one of

945
01:07:47,039 --> 01:07:53,680
my first ones was the city of Wayne. Uh

946
01:07:49,760 --> 01:07:55,359
so I was here before COVID. Um, so that

947
01:07:53,680 --> 01:07:57,200
was really interesting and Judge Mack

948
01:07:55,359 --> 01:08:00,480
was here and we were in person and

949
01:07:57,200 --> 01:08:03,200
everything was in person and then um,

950
01:08:00,480 --> 01:08:07,520
COVID happened and I was at that time I

951
01:08:03,200 --> 01:08:11,920
was prosecuting for Redford for Wayne

952
01:08:07,520 --> 01:08:15,599
uh, Belleville Pontiac and so we had to

953
01:08:11,920 --> 01:08:18,880
pivot and uh, take COVID and learn how

954
01:08:15,599 --> 01:08:20,719
to do court via Zoom and a whole

955
01:08:18,880 --> 01:08:23,920
different world and changing everything

956
01:08:20,719 --> 01:08:26,799
from meeting one-on-one with people to

957
01:08:23,920 --> 01:08:29,199
um virtually and learning how to work

958
01:08:26,799 --> 01:08:32,159
Zoom. At that time we were doing trials

959
01:08:29,199 --> 01:08:34,400
by Zoom and um just a whole different

960
01:08:32,159 --> 01:08:38,080
world from the practice that I had had

961
01:08:34,400 --> 01:08:40,560
for such a long time. And then um

962
01:08:38,080 --> 01:08:44,319
transitioning back into now kind of like

963
01:08:40,560 --> 01:08:46,480
a quasi in-person Zoom reality that

964
01:08:44,319 --> 01:08:49,120
we're in now where some things are um

965
01:08:46,480 --> 01:08:51,759
but we're back in the courtroom. So, um,

966
01:08:49,120 --> 01:08:55,520
currently right now, uh, I'm doing the

967
01:08:51,759 --> 01:08:59,359
city of Wayne and then, um, I am doing

968
01:08:55,520 --> 01:09:01,520
Ly Gorian, uh, Keo Harbor,

969
01:08:59,359 --> 01:09:06,159
Gross Point,

970
01:09:01,520 --> 01:09:10,239
and, uh, Redford. I back up Redford.

971
01:09:06,159 --> 01:09:13,600
My firm uh, has a whole list of other

972
01:09:10,239 --> 01:09:15,440
um, municipalities. I think um you're

973
01:09:13,600 --> 01:09:18,319
familiar with a lot of them from knowing

974
01:09:15,440 --> 01:09:20,560
us for as long as you have. Um but we're

975
01:09:18,319 --> 01:09:24,080
general counsel for quite a long list.

976
01:09:20,560 --> 01:09:28,319
And uh we also do prosecutions for

977
01:09:24,080 --> 01:09:30,560
Seline and uh Northville. I think I

978
01:09:28,319 --> 01:09:32,960
think that's our current full list, but

979
01:09:30,560 --> 01:09:35,960
I I may be leaving out a prosecution

980
01:09:32,960 --> 01:09:35,960
docket.

981
01:09:36,159 --> 01:09:39,839
» Okay.

982
01:09:37,920 --> 01:09:40,960
And I I I know the answer. I'm going to

983
01:09:39,839 --> 01:09:43,839
ask you the question because I got to

984
01:09:40,960 --> 01:09:45,600
ask everybody the same questions. So, if

985
01:09:43,839 --> 01:09:48,880
your firm uh was able to provide

986
01:09:45,600 --> 01:09:51,279
prosecutional services uh for the 29th

987
01:09:48,880 --> 01:09:53,759
District Criminal Dockets every two a

988
01:09:51,279 --> 01:09:56,640
week, Tuesday from 8:00 a.m. to noon and

989
01:09:53,759 --> 01:09:59,760
one Monday a month at 8:00 a.m. noon to

990
01:09:56,640 --> 01:10:02,320
noon. Um and jury trials are held on

991
01:09:59,760 --> 01:10:04,239
Thursdays or Fridays when necessary.

992
01:10:02,320 --> 01:10:06,000
It's imperative that our city's legal

993
01:10:04,239 --> 01:10:07,600
representation be able to offer

994
01:10:06,000 --> 01:10:10,080
sufficient staffing to cover these

995
01:10:07,600 --> 01:10:10,960
dockets that you're you're able to do

996
01:10:10,080 --> 01:10:12,719
all that.

997
01:10:10,960 --> 01:10:15,199
» Yeah, there's two bench trial dockets on

998
01:10:12,719 --> 01:10:16,800
Thursday afternoons a month as well. Uh,

999
01:10:15,199 --> 01:10:19,679
one of them is Zoom and one of them is

1000
01:10:16,800 --> 01:10:20,640
in person. So, uh, yeah, they're in my

1001
01:10:19,679 --> 01:10:22,239
schedule.

1002
01:10:20,640 --> 01:10:26,400
» Okay.

1003
01:10:22,239 --> 01:10:29,520
Okay. Uh, Councilwoman Lawrence

1004
01:10:26,400 --> 01:10:30,880
and please let's just try to stay we

1005
01:10:29,520 --> 01:10:35,280
want to stay with the same questions for

1006
01:10:30,880 --> 01:10:37,280
everybody to be in the same

1007
01:10:35,280 --> 01:10:39,920
» All right.

1008
01:10:37,280 --> 01:10:42,080
Um, define discretion as it appeals to

1009
01:10:39,920 --> 01:10:44,320
your role as a city prosecutor. How

1010
01:10:42,080 --> 01:10:47,760
would you use this discretion?

1011
01:10:44,320 --> 01:10:50,960
» So I think um as a role of a prosecutor

1012
01:10:47,760 --> 01:10:54,640
uh ethics is the most important thing is

1013
01:10:50,960 --> 01:10:57,199
being ethical. So, you have to use

1014
01:10:54,640 --> 01:11:00,719
discretion. Um, one of the biggest

1015
01:10:57,199 --> 01:11:03,199
things that I do is review warrants and

1016
01:11:00,719 --> 01:11:05,600
you've got to look at them and decide

1017
01:11:03,199 --> 01:11:07,040
whether or not there's probable cause.

1018
01:11:05,600 --> 01:11:09,040
But when I'm looking at a warrant, I

1019
01:11:07,040 --> 01:11:13,120
actually kind of go a little further and

1020
01:11:09,040 --> 01:11:15,280
try to decide if if I really can try it

1021
01:11:13,120 --> 01:11:17,040
beyond a reasonable doubt. I mean, I you

1022
01:11:15,280 --> 01:11:20,560
only need a probable cause to write it,

1023
01:11:17,040 --> 01:11:24,400
but um and if there isn't, I have no

1024
01:11:20,560 --> 01:11:26,159
problem denying a warrant, and I I will

1025
01:11:24,400 --> 01:11:28,000
deny a warrant, and I and I will happily

1026
01:11:26,159 --> 01:11:29,679
talk to a police officer about why.

1027
01:11:28,000 --> 01:11:33,120
Sometimes, um there's even an

1028
01:11:29,679 --> 01:11:36,239
educational aspect to that. Um as far as

1029
01:11:33,120 --> 01:11:38,000
in the courtroom goes, uh discretion is

1030
01:11:36,239 --> 01:11:41,040
a big part of the job. You know what,

1031
01:11:38,000 --> 01:11:42,239
you have to take it's case by case. Um,

1032
01:11:41,040 --> 01:11:44,239
which I think you're going to hear from

1033
01:11:42,239 --> 01:11:46,880
any good lawyer or good prosecutor

1034
01:11:44,239 --> 01:11:50,480
because that's the truth. Um, but you

1035
01:11:46,880 --> 01:11:52,800
have to take every every case as it is

1036
01:11:50,480 --> 01:11:55,840
and make a decision whether you've got

1037
01:11:52,800 --> 01:11:57,440
good facts and um how you want to

1038
01:11:55,840 --> 01:11:59,280
approach it because there's a lot of

1039
01:11:57,440 --> 01:12:00,880
different ways to come come at a

1040
01:11:59,280 --> 01:12:03,280
criminal case.

1041
01:12:00,880 --> 01:12:04,480
» Thank you. supposed to ask the same

1042
01:12:03,280 --> 01:12:05,120
question, John.

1043
01:12:04,480 --> 01:12:06,960
» Yes,

1044
01:12:05,120 --> 01:12:08,719
» I got them written down.

1045
01:12:06,960 --> 01:12:10,560
» I think mine was number 12, right? All

1046
01:12:08,719 --> 01:12:11,040
right. Let's see. Number 11.

1047
01:12:10,560 --> 01:12:14,120
» Yep.

1048
01:12:11,040 --> 01:12:14,120
» All right.

1049
01:12:17,360 --> 01:12:21,440
» All right. Can you can you provide a

1050
01:12:20,080 --> 01:12:23,120
breakdown of your experience with

1051
01:12:21,440 --> 01:12:26,320
residential, commercial, industrial

1052
01:12:23,120 --> 01:12:29,280
compliance, such as occupying buildings

1053
01:12:26,320 --> 01:12:30,560
without a CFO and inspections right to

1054
01:12:29,280 --> 01:12:32,000
entry?

1055
01:12:30,560 --> 01:12:34,239
» Yeah. So, that's actually really

1056
01:12:32,000 --> 01:12:36,480
interesting because I um that was brand

1057
01:12:34,239 --> 01:12:38,080
new for me when I left the prosecutor's

1058
01:12:36,480 --> 01:12:41,199
office. When I was at the prosecutor's

1059
01:12:38,080 --> 01:12:42,719
office, uh it was only criminal law that

1060
01:12:41,199 --> 01:12:44,960
we did. And then when I when I did

1061
01:12:42,719 --> 01:12:47,280
forfeite, it was quasi civil and

1062
01:12:44,960 --> 01:12:50,080
criminal, but it was all drugrelated. Um

1063
01:12:47,280 --> 01:12:53,520
so, I had not

1064
01:12:50,080 --> 01:12:55,840
worked with building codes at all except

1065
01:12:53,520 --> 01:12:57,280
for, you know, things at my own house

1066
01:12:55,840 --> 01:13:00,080
and trying to get permits and things

1067
01:12:57,280 --> 01:13:03,120
like that. Um, so it was a really big

1068
01:13:00,080 --> 01:13:05,120
education to start to learn about um the

1069
01:13:03,120 --> 01:13:07,360
building codes and things like that. But

1070
01:13:05,120 --> 01:13:09,360
in every single one of the municipal

1071
01:13:07,360 --> 01:13:12,000
contracts that we have, there's a

1072
01:13:09,360 --> 01:13:14,880
building aspect to them. So, I've become

1073
01:13:12,000 --> 01:13:17,440
a lot more comfortable um over the years

1074
01:13:14,880 --> 01:13:19,920
in in understanding that, working with

1075
01:13:17,440 --> 01:13:22,400
the building officials, um understanding

1076
01:13:19,920 --> 01:13:24,320
the building code, understanding kind of

1077
01:13:22,400 --> 01:13:27,120
the difference, you know, um in a

1078
01:13:24,320 --> 01:13:28,960
criminal case, you want um there's a

1079
01:13:27,120 --> 01:13:30,640
punitive aspect to it, there's a

1080
01:13:28,960 --> 01:13:33,360
punishment aspect to it, you know, there

1081
01:13:30,640 --> 01:13:36,400
really is. And in a building department

1082
01:13:33,360 --> 01:13:39,360
case, it's really

1083
01:13:36,400 --> 01:13:41,920
more of a compliance aspect, you know,

1084
01:13:39,360 --> 01:13:45,199
and you're looking for them to to com to

1085
01:13:41,920 --> 01:13:46,480
comply and come into code. Um, I mean, I

1086
01:13:45,199 --> 01:13:47,920
guess sometimes there could be a, you

1087
01:13:46,480 --> 01:13:49,440
know, a punishment if someone is really

1088
01:13:47,920 --> 01:13:51,360
egregious or doing something terrible,

1089
01:13:49,440 --> 01:13:54,640
but it's just something different. Um,

1090
01:13:51,360 --> 01:13:57,760
so it was some uh a a big education, but

1091
01:13:54,640 --> 01:13:59,600
I think I've over the last 10 years

1092
01:13:57,760 --> 01:14:00,800
become very very comfortable working

1093
01:13:59,600 --> 01:14:04,120
with the building department and

1094
01:14:00,800 --> 01:14:04,120
building codes.

1095
01:14:04,400 --> 01:14:08,719
» At what point when you're looking at

1096
01:14:06,560 --> 01:14:10,000
compliance do you decide that it you

1097
01:14:08,719 --> 01:14:12,239
need to go further because they're not

1098
01:14:10,000 --> 01:14:14,480
complying? What what's the what's the

1099
01:14:12,239 --> 01:14:17,679
parameter? How long do you wait on stuff

1100
01:14:14,480 --> 01:14:20,080
like that? So, I think it depends on how

1101
01:14:17,679 --> 01:14:21,840
serious of a situation obviously you're

1102
01:14:20,080 --> 01:14:23,760
dealing with, you know. So, in a

1103
01:14:21,840 --> 01:14:26,960
building department case, you can have

1104
01:14:23,760 --> 01:14:28,560
everything from um a a very very

1105
01:14:26,960 --> 01:14:31,840
dangerous building, which we all know

1106
01:14:28,560 --> 01:14:33,360
we've had, um to somebody who's not

1107
01:14:31,840 --> 01:14:35,360
cutting their grass or they're not

1108
01:14:33,360 --> 01:14:37,920
bringing in their garbage cans and

1109
01:14:35,360 --> 01:14:39,199
everything in between. So, you really

1110
01:14:37,920 --> 01:14:41,840
have to take a look at what you're

1111
01:14:39,199 --> 01:14:45,120
dealing with. Um, at first I think

1112
01:14:41,840 --> 01:14:46,960
compliance is is the first step no

1113
01:14:45,120 --> 01:14:48,800
matter what, you know, and and can they

1114
01:14:46,960 --> 01:14:50,960
is it possible? Can they even come into

1115
01:14:48,800 --> 01:14:52,719
compliance? Is that even something that

1116
01:14:50,960 --> 01:14:56,080
we can talk about? Because compliance

1117
01:14:52,719 --> 01:14:59,600
could be $5 million, but someone may

1118
01:14:56,080 --> 01:15:02,080
actually have that. Um, so initially

1119
01:14:59,600 --> 01:15:06,480
definitely compliance. Um, the way that

1120
01:15:02,080 --> 01:15:08,000
I handle most building cases is um to do

1121
01:15:06,480 --> 01:15:11,360
uh what's called a plea under

1122
01:15:08,000 --> 01:15:13,840
advisement. And so the defendant would

1123
01:15:11,360 --> 01:15:15,679
admit responsibility that they did

1124
01:15:13,840 --> 01:15:17,440
indeed commit that building code

1125
01:15:15,679 --> 01:15:19,040
violation and then they would get a

1126
01:15:17,440 --> 01:15:21,199
certain amount of time to come into

1127
01:15:19,040 --> 01:15:24,000
compliance and they would have review

1128
01:15:21,199 --> 01:15:25,920
hearings um that we would keep an eye on

1129
01:15:24,000 --> 01:15:27,840
them and then that criminal charge

1130
01:15:25,920 --> 01:15:31,280
because as you guys know most of your

1131
01:15:27,840 --> 01:15:33,520
cases um the building codes are still

1132
01:15:31,280 --> 01:15:35,040
misdemeanors and a lot of cities have

1133
01:15:33,520 --> 01:15:36,719
moved towards municipal civil

1134
01:15:35,040 --> 01:15:38,880
infractions but in Wayne the vast

1135
01:15:36,719 --> 01:15:41,040
majority of them are misdemeanors. So,

1136
01:15:38,880 --> 01:15:42,800
you actually have a criminal conviction

1137
01:15:41,040 --> 01:15:44,400
that you can hang over people's heads.

1138
01:15:42,800 --> 01:15:45,760
And people care about that. You know,

1139
01:15:44,400 --> 01:15:48,320
he'll stand in the way of them getting

1140
01:15:45,760 --> 01:15:49,760
jobs or um being able to be, you know,

1141
01:15:48,320 --> 01:15:52,320
going to their children's school, things

1142
01:15:49,760 --> 01:15:55,679
like that. So, I can kind of hold that

1143
01:15:52,320 --> 01:15:57,760
over their head and keep that going. And

1144
01:15:55,679 --> 01:15:59,600
then there's fines and costs that are

1145
01:15:57,760 --> 01:16:02,159
associated with that and keep their case

1146
01:15:59,600 --> 01:16:03,840
open. So, that's usually my number one

1147
01:16:02,159 --> 01:16:06,880
way of handling a building department

1148
01:16:03,840 --> 01:16:08,560
case. Um, sometimes you can dismiss it

1149
01:16:06,880 --> 01:16:10,320
uh earlier if they come like a grass

1150
01:16:08,560 --> 01:16:12,080
case, like a long grass case. If they

1151
01:16:10,320 --> 01:16:13,520
come in and they've cut their grass,

1152
01:16:12,080 --> 01:16:17,360
maybe you could just do like a double

1153
01:16:13,520 --> 01:16:19,679
parking fine for $180 and then just let

1154
01:16:17,360 --> 01:16:23,440
them move on because they took care of

1155
01:16:19,679 --> 01:16:25,600
it right away immediately. Um, obviously

1156
01:16:23,440 --> 01:16:28,080
other cases are different. I mean, I've

1157
01:16:25,600 --> 01:16:30,320
had trials on building department cases.

1158
01:16:28,080 --> 01:16:32,080
I've done um administrative search

1159
01:16:30,320 --> 01:16:35,600
warrants here on building department

1160
01:16:32,080 --> 01:16:39,040
cases. Um, so

1161
01:16:35,600 --> 01:16:41,120
sometimes you need to take it to a

1162
01:16:39,040 --> 01:16:42,800
different level and we've done that here

1163
01:16:41,120 --> 01:16:44,159
and I I have no problem doing that

1164
01:16:42,800 --> 01:16:46,560
again.

1165
01:16:44,159 --> 01:16:48,880
» Okay. I may have missed it. You may have

1166
01:16:46,560 --> 01:16:49,920
told me this. What is the hourly rate

1167
01:16:48,880 --> 01:16:52,640
that you guys

1168
01:16:49,920 --> 01:16:56,159
» So we have not raised our rates since we

1169
01:16:52,640 --> 01:16:58,960
first came in um eight or nine years ago

1170
01:16:56,159 --> 01:17:01,760
I think. Not at all. Uh but we have

1171
01:16:58,960 --> 01:17:06,000
suggested a a raise um with this with

1172
01:17:01,760 --> 01:17:08,400
this uh bidding process to um $150 an

1173
01:17:06,000 --> 01:17:09,920
hour. I think it was 125.

1174
01:17:08,400 --> 01:17:13,800
» Okay.

1175
01:17:09,920 --> 01:17:13,800
Okay. Mayor Prom,

1176
01:17:17,199 --> 01:17:21,040
» Is there anything

1177
01:17:19,520 --> 01:17:23,520
is there anything that you feel you

1178
01:17:21,040 --> 01:17:26,159
could do as city prosecutor to improve

1179
01:17:23,520 --> 01:17:30,280
the efficiency of city and court

1180
01:17:26,159 --> 01:17:30,280
operations or interactions?

1181
01:17:30,400 --> 01:17:37,679
» Oh, that's a good question. Um, so

1182
01:17:34,880 --> 01:17:39,600
you know, there there's an efficiency

1183
01:17:37,679 --> 01:17:42,480
just an efficiency thing. you know, it's

1184
01:17:39,600 --> 01:17:44,640
a communication. Um, the dockets are

1185
01:17:42,480 --> 01:17:46,159
they're they're pretty big. Uh, all

1186
01:17:44,640 --> 01:17:48,960
things considered, there's usually

1187
01:17:46,159 --> 01:17:52,560
somewhere like I figured I prosecuting

1188
01:17:48,960 --> 01:17:54,800
around 2,000 to 3,000 cases monthly, I

1189
01:17:52,560 --> 01:17:57,760
believe, like everything all together.

1190
01:17:54,800 --> 01:18:02,320
Um, so, you know, you got to do a lot of

1191
01:17:57,760 --> 01:18:04,800
preparation work. Um, which I do. Uh, be

1192
01:18:02,320 --> 01:18:07,600
uh try to get things done in advance, be

1193
01:18:04,800 --> 01:18:09,760
communicating with the clerks, uh, be on

1194
01:18:07,600 --> 01:18:13,280
time. um just a lot of communication,

1195
01:18:09,760 --> 01:18:16,239
but the court here is a very wellrun

1196
01:18:13,280 --> 01:18:17,760
court. Um the staff is excellent. Uh the

1197
01:18:16,239 --> 01:18:20,800
clerks are really good, the court

1198
01:18:17,760 --> 01:18:23,600
administrator is great. Um so they they

1199
01:18:20,800 --> 01:18:26,640
get me what I need. Um so as far as the

1200
01:18:23,600 --> 01:18:29,199
court goes as the prosecutor, um it's

1201
01:18:26,640 --> 01:18:33,040
just a matter of prepping the docket in

1202
01:18:29,199 --> 01:18:35,760
advance and sending that out and um I do

1203
01:18:33,040 --> 01:18:37,120
that a week in advance every every week.

1204
01:18:35,760 --> 01:18:37,840
So,

1205
01:18:37,120 --> 01:18:38,480
» Thank you.

1206
01:18:37,840 --> 01:18:42,000
» Yeah.

1207
01:18:38,480 --> 01:18:45,920
» Okay. Are there any matters uh you would

1208
01:18:42,000 --> 01:18:47,760
or would not provide count um

1209
01:18:45,920 --> 01:18:50,480
you would or would not provide counsel

1210
01:18:47,760 --> 01:18:53,120
to the police department on?

1211
01:18:50,480 --> 01:18:55,840
» Absolutely none.

1212
01:18:53,120 --> 01:18:58,080
» Okay.

1213
01:18:55,840 --> 01:19:00,560
Councilman Lawrence,

1214
01:18:58,080 --> 01:19:02,960
» How many cases have you represented with

1215
01:19:00,560 --> 01:19:06,239
the municipality regarding environmental

1216
01:19:02,960 --> 01:19:09,199
violations such as air quality, fugitive

1217
01:19:06,239 --> 01:19:12,320
dust, geotechnical reports, and various

1218
01:19:09,199 --> 01:19:15,360
soil contamination testing? Did you go

1219
01:19:12,320 --> 01:19:19,679
to trial and what were the outcomes? Not

1220
01:19:15,360 --> 01:19:23,440
too many. Um there's been uh some that

1221
01:19:19,679 --> 01:19:25,840
have had some aspects to that. Um, none

1222
01:19:23,440 --> 01:19:27,600
in none in Wayne that I can think of.

1223
01:19:25,840 --> 01:19:31,480
And no, I have never gone to trial on

1224
01:19:27,600 --> 01:19:31,480
one of those issues.

1225
01:19:31,760 --> 01:19:38,640
» Okay. Uh, Councilwoman Was.

1226
01:19:37,120 --> 01:19:40,880
» Okay. This is going to be a twofer

1227
01:19:38,640 --> 01:19:43,440
because I kind of screwed that up, John.

1228
01:19:40,880 --> 01:19:46,480
Um, so since I know you are familiar

1229
01:19:43,440 --> 01:19:48,080
with our current legal situations,

1230
01:19:46,480 --> 01:19:51,920
what experience do you have with

1231
01:19:48,080 --> 01:19:55,120
habitual offenders andor difficult latig

1232
01:19:51,920 --> 01:19:56,960
latigious mentally ill or retaliatory

1233
01:19:55,120 --> 01:19:58,880
violators?

1234
01:19:56,960 --> 01:20:01,040
» You know, when I was at um the Oakland

1235
01:19:58,880 --> 01:20:04,960
County Prosecutor's Office, we had

1236
01:20:01,040 --> 01:20:06,800
habitual felon felons a lot. Um, you

1237
01:20:04,960 --> 01:20:08,239
would call them like a hab second, hab

1238
01:20:06,800 --> 01:20:10,560
third, hab fourth because they were

1239
01:20:08,239 --> 01:20:12,719
habitual. So, I mean, I have experience

1240
01:20:10,560 --> 01:20:17,520
in dealing with habitual offenders that

1241
01:20:12,719 --> 01:20:19,280
goes far back. Um, on a city level, it's

1242
01:20:17,520 --> 01:20:21,199
it's different. You know, city

1243
01:20:19,280 --> 01:20:23,840
prosecutions are very very different

1244
01:20:21,199 --> 01:20:25,760
than than a county level in so many so

1245
01:20:23,840 --> 01:20:28,800
many different ways. Um, because you're

1246
01:20:25,760 --> 01:20:32,400
really part of the community in a

1247
01:20:28,800 --> 01:20:34,960
different in a different way. Um, so

1248
01:20:32,400 --> 01:20:37,280
I've become very familiar with uh

1249
01:20:34,960 --> 01:20:40,800
specialty courts and mental health

1250
01:20:37,280 --> 01:20:42,800
treatment courts. veterans courts, um

1251
01:20:40,800 --> 01:20:46,960
those kind of courts that can really

1252
01:20:42,800 --> 01:20:49,840
help people and and what they can do. Um

1253
01:20:46,960 --> 01:20:52,320
and just how excellent they are. You

1254
01:20:49,840 --> 01:20:55,040
know, the mental health court uh at at

1255
01:20:52,320 --> 01:20:56,880
our court is is excellent and it's so

1256
01:20:55,040 --> 01:20:59,360
impressive. And you know, we're involved

1257
01:20:56,880 --> 01:21:02,000
in the veterans court in Redford, which

1258
01:20:59,360 --> 01:21:06,400
is equally just an impressive um

1259
01:21:02,000 --> 01:21:09,040
program. Uh as far as dealing with

1260
01:21:06,400 --> 01:21:13,520
difficult defendants,

1261
01:21:09,040 --> 01:21:15,920
um you know, it's part of the job and

1262
01:21:13,520 --> 01:21:17,280
you just do it. You know, you do the job

1263
01:21:15,920 --> 01:21:20,320
and you do it to the best of your

1264
01:21:17,280 --> 01:21:22,239
ability and you treat them and everybody

1265
01:21:20,320 --> 01:21:25,280
the same way that you would treat any

1266
01:21:22,239 --> 01:21:27,920
other defendant, any other case. you

1267
01:21:25,280 --> 01:21:31,280
know, I use the same discretion. Um, I

1268
01:21:27,920 --> 01:21:33,600
try to be equally fair and reasonable.

1269
01:21:31,280 --> 01:21:36,640
Um, and I think I am a very fair and

1270
01:21:33,600 --> 01:21:39,280
reasonable prosecutor. Um, so I do the

1271
01:21:36,640 --> 01:21:43,199
same thing, um, that I would with

1272
01:21:39,280 --> 01:21:48,159
anybody else. Obviously, uh, it can be a

1273
01:21:43,199 --> 01:21:50,400
challenge, you know. Um but yeah, you

1274
01:21:48,159 --> 01:21:53,280
just got to keep doing the job and try

1275
01:21:50,400 --> 01:21:56,480
to get a team with you to help you and

1276
01:21:53,280 --> 01:21:59,719
um work together.

1277
01:21:56,480 --> 01:21:59,719
» Thank you.

1278
01:22:00,320 --> 01:22:03,560
» Your pro.

1279
01:22:04,080 --> 01:22:08,639
» This is a set of yes and uh no uh

1280
01:22:06,639 --> 01:22:11,679
responses, right? One question is going

1281
01:22:08,639 --> 01:22:15,520
to be all little things in there. And um

1282
01:22:11,679 --> 01:22:17,040
so here we go. Uh do you have Uh, what

1283
01:22:15,520 --> 01:22:19,679
experience? Okay, it's going to be yes

1284
01:22:17,040 --> 01:22:22,159
or no. Uh, do you have uh experience

1285
01:22:19,679 --> 01:22:24,400
interpreting and enforcing the following

1286
01:22:22,159 --> 01:22:25,520
uh codes? Michigan building code?

1287
01:22:24,400 --> 01:22:27,040
» Yes.

1288
01:22:25,520 --> 01:22:27,520
» Residential code?

1289
01:22:27,040 --> 01:22:28,800
» Yes.

1290
01:22:27,520 --> 01:22:29,440
» Mechanical code?

1291
01:22:28,800 --> 01:22:30,800
» Yes.

1292
01:22:29,440 --> 01:22:31,360
» Plumbing code?

1293
01:22:30,800 --> 01:22:32,320
» Yes.

1294
01:22:31,360 --> 01:22:32,960
» Electrical code?

1295
01:22:32,320 --> 01:22:33,920
» Yes.

1296
01:22:32,960 --> 01:22:34,560
» Fire code?

1297
01:22:33,920 --> 01:22:35,920
» Yes.

1298
01:22:34,560 --> 01:22:36,639
» Property maintenance code?

1299
01:22:35,920 --> 01:22:38,560
» Yes.

1300
01:22:36,639 --> 01:22:40,880
» Thank you.

1301
01:22:38,560 --> 01:22:43,760
» Sure.

1302
01:22:40,880 --> 01:22:46,719
» Okay. So,

1303
01:22:43,760 --> 01:22:51,120
what do you see or what do you think the

1304
01:22:46,719 --> 01:22:54,719
role of the city prosecutor is?

1305
01:22:51,120 --> 01:22:56,639
» So, it's interesting because you're a

1306
01:22:54,719 --> 01:22:59,280
lot of times as a city prosecutor,

1307
01:22:56,639 --> 01:23:02,159
you're dealing with citizens. Um, it's

1308
01:22:59,280 --> 01:23:05,120
not all, you know, horrible crimes or

1309
01:23:02,159 --> 01:23:08,159
habitual. A lot of times it's uh traffic

1310
01:23:05,120 --> 01:23:10,320
tickets and it's you know speeding

1311
01:23:08,159 --> 01:23:12,560
tickets or like I said it's somebody who

1312
01:23:10,320 --> 01:23:14,800
isn't taking out their trash or you know

1313
01:23:12,560 --> 01:23:17,920
so you can really be like a face of the

1314
01:23:14,800 --> 01:23:21,120
community and sort of get to uh know

1315
01:23:17,920 --> 01:23:23,440
citizens and talk to people um be part

1316
01:23:21,120 --> 01:23:25,760
of a community which I which I think is

1317
01:23:23,440 --> 01:23:28,080
really important. Um but then you have

1318
01:23:25,760 --> 01:23:30,639
the other level of a relationship with

1319
01:23:28,080 --> 01:23:32,560
the police department which I really

1320
01:23:30,639 --> 01:23:35,040
pride myself on. Um, you have an

1321
01:23:32,560 --> 01:23:37,120
excellent police department here. Um,

1322
01:23:35,040 --> 01:23:40,159
you have an excellent police chief,

1323
01:23:37,120 --> 01:23:43,679
excellent lieutenants, um, an excellent

1324
01:23:40,159 --> 01:23:45,440
deputy chief, amazing officers. Um, a

1325
01:23:43,679 --> 01:23:48,560
lot of turnover, a lot of young officers

1326
01:23:45,440 --> 01:23:51,199
that are coming in. Um, but I I pride

1327
01:23:48,560 --> 01:23:53,760
myself on having a relationship because

1328
01:23:51,199 --> 01:23:56,400
really another goal is safety of the

1329
01:23:53,760 --> 01:23:58,400
community. And as a city prosecutor, you

1330
01:23:56,400 --> 01:24:00,800
know, that's a boots on the ground kind

1331
01:23:58,400 --> 01:24:02,400
of role is um you know, making sure that

1332
01:24:00,800 --> 01:24:03,920
people are are safe and having a

1333
01:24:02,400 --> 01:24:06,320
relationship. I think that the city

1334
01:24:03,920 --> 01:24:09,040
prosecutor needs to work very very

1335
01:24:06,320 --> 01:24:12,480
closely with the police department. Um

1336
01:24:09,040 --> 01:24:15,120
and I I do um they all have my phone

1337
01:24:12,480 --> 01:24:16,560
number. I've talked to the the chief as

1338
01:24:15,120 --> 01:24:18,719
early as 7 o'clock in the morning, as

1339
01:24:16,560 --> 01:24:21,280
late as 9:00 at night. Same with the

1340
01:24:18,719 --> 01:24:23,679
deputy chief. A lot of the officers um

1341
01:24:21,280 --> 01:24:25,360
same with on the weekends. uh they call

1342
01:24:23,679 --> 01:24:27,360
me sometimes because they can't get a

1343
01:24:25,360 --> 01:24:29,520
hold of their county prosecutor to sign

1344
01:24:27,360 --> 01:24:32,560
for a search warrant and they can get a

1345
01:24:29,520 --> 01:24:34,719
hold of me. Um so they do uh I will

1346
01:24:32,560 --> 01:24:38,320
answer the phone for those guys um and

1347
01:24:34,719 --> 01:24:40,960
women uh anytime um on on vacation or

1348
01:24:38,320 --> 01:24:43,760
anything. So, I think it's relationships

1349
01:24:40,960 --> 01:24:46,080
uh with the police, safety, and then

1350
01:24:43,760 --> 01:24:47,679
just um also, you know, you can have a

1351
01:24:46,080 --> 01:24:49,360
positive role like I was saying like

1352
01:24:47,679 --> 01:24:51,280
with, you know, some people that just

1353
01:24:49,360 --> 01:24:52,800
have never come to court before and

1354
01:24:51,280 --> 01:24:54,719
they're coming because they have a

1355
01:24:52,800 --> 01:24:57,760
speeding ticket or something and you

1356
01:24:54,719 --> 01:24:59,600
know, you can have a a a good, you know,

1357
01:24:57,760 --> 01:25:01,760
it's not the it's not a major crime,

1358
01:24:59,600 --> 01:25:04,000
it's a speeding ticket and show them a

1359
01:25:01,760 --> 01:25:05,360
good experience uh at their court and

1360
01:25:04,000 --> 01:25:08,000
dealing with their their local

1361
01:25:05,360 --> 01:25:10,080
prosecutor.

1362
01:25:08,000 --> 01:25:13,360
Okay,

1363
01:25:10,080 --> 01:25:15,679
I think that's all for questions

1364
01:25:13,360 --> 01:25:19,080
» That we did.

1365
01:25:15,679 --> 01:25:19,080
» What was that?

1366
01:25:27,760 --> 01:25:30,639
» You want to say it?

1367
01:25:29,760 --> 01:25:32,639
» Do you want to say it?

1368
01:25:30,639 --> 01:25:35,040
» Go ahead. Do it.

1369
01:25:32,639 --> 01:25:36,560
» Um, I don't know if I'm gonna say it

1370
01:25:35,040 --> 01:25:37,040
right, John. So, I might need you to

1371
01:25:36,560 --> 01:25:37,600
chime in.

1372
01:25:37,040 --> 01:25:39,440
» Yep. That's

1373
01:25:37,600 --> 01:25:44,239
» If hired,

1374
01:25:39,440 --> 01:25:46,000
will you review the cases? Oh, well,

1375
01:25:44,239 --> 01:25:48,239
review the cases we have and advise us,

1376
01:25:46,000 --> 01:25:50,000
but

1377
01:25:48,239 --> 01:25:51,440
» I think it was for ordinances, right?

1378
01:25:50,000 --> 01:25:53,120
» Oh, yeah. Yeah.

1379
01:25:51,440 --> 01:25:54,480
» There was review and advise on.

1380
01:25:53,120 --> 01:25:56,320
» So, we have a lot of different

1381
01:25:54,480 --> 01:25:57,840
ordinances and everything. What are your

1382
01:25:56,320 --> 01:25:59,040
thoughts about reviewing looking through

1383
01:25:57,840 --> 01:26:01,600
that stuff and seeing if there's things

1384
01:25:59,040 --> 01:26:03,440
that we need to improve on? Do you do

1385
01:26:01,600 --> 01:26:04,800
you look at things or, you know, how

1386
01:26:03,440 --> 01:26:06,639
things have been written? Is there

1387
01:26:04,800 --> 01:26:09,679
problems with stuff? Do you see, you

1388
01:26:06,639 --> 01:26:10,960
know, do are things good or bad? What

1389
01:26:09,679 --> 01:26:11,760
What do you recommend? What would you

1390
01:26:10,960 --> 01:26:13,280
recommend?

1391
01:26:11,760 --> 01:26:14,639
» Criminal ordinances, building

1392
01:26:13,280 --> 01:26:15,520
ordinances, both

1393
01:26:14,639 --> 01:26:18,239
» Everything, I guess.

1394
01:26:15,520 --> 01:26:20,480
» Okay. Yeah. So, um, you know, I think

1395
01:26:18,239 --> 01:26:22,880
that some of the building code could use

1396
01:26:20,480 --> 01:26:25,280
to be rewritten in some ways. You know,

1397
01:26:22,880 --> 01:26:27,199
I think that we would be uh it'd be good

1398
01:26:25,280 --> 01:26:29,440
to have a few municipal civil

1399
01:26:27,199 --> 01:26:32,159
infractions instead of everything being

1400
01:26:29,440 --> 01:26:34,480
a misdemeanor. Uh there misdemeanor can

1401
01:26:32,159 --> 01:26:38,480
be problematic for some building co uh

1402
01:26:34,480 --> 01:26:41,440
code cases because um they uh attorneys

1403
01:26:38,480 --> 01:26:44,000
they get attorneys um appointed to them

1404
01:26:41,440 --> 01:26:46,000
and then it drags out longer in court.

1405
01:26:44,000 --> 01:26:48,000
There's a discovery process and it can

1406
01:26:46,000 --> 01:26:51,360
go on longer. They have a right to a

1407
01:26:48,000 --> 01:26:53,600
jury trial. Um, and so it will sometimes

1408
01:26:51,360 --> 01:26:56,320
take a lot longer in court because of

1409
01:26:53,600 --> 01:26:58,159
that process, which I know can be very

1410
01:26:56,320 --> 01:27:00,000
uh frustrating to the building

1411
01:26:58,159 --> 01:27:02,080
department because they feel like on

1412
01:27:00,000 --> 01:27:04,320
their end, they've already given people

1413
01:27:02,080 --> 01:27:06,320
notices and sent letters and things and

1414
01:27:04,320 --> 01:27:08,320
so they want to see it move faster, but

1415
01:27:06,320 --> 01:27:10,480
due process

1416
01:27:08,320 --> 01:27:11,920
dictates that it moves a little slower.

1417
01:27:10,480 --> 01:27:13,840
And then there's, you know, setting it

1418
01:27:11,920 --> 01:27:16,400
for trial, setting for jury trial, which

1419
01:27:13,840 --> 01:27:18,880
could take a longer time. So, if we

1420
01:27:16,400 --> 01:27:21,199
considered doing a few things more like

1421
01:27:18,880 --> 01:27:22,800
municipal civil infractions, we could

1422
01:27:21,199 --> 01:27:25,040
move those along along a little bit

1423
01:27:22,800 --> 01:27:27,440
faster because then they don't need um

1424
01:27:25,040 --> 01:27:29,440
there's no jury trial or trial. It would

1425
01:27:27,440 --> 01:27:32,480
be a formal hearing and the judge could

1426
01:27:29,440 --> 01:27:36,080
have that quickly and then um it's a

1427
01:27:32,480 --> 01:27:38,960
fine and if it's not paid uh it's put on

1428
01:27:36,080 --> 01:27:41,600
your property taxes. So, that's a um an

1429
01:27:38,960 --> 01:27:42,880
idea that we could consider. Um, some of

1430
01:27:41,600 --> 01:27:45,040
it could maybe be just used to be

1431
01:27:42,880 --> 01:27:47,679
updated a little bit. As far as the

1432
01:27:45,040 --> 01:27:50,880
criminal ordinances, um, I would just

1433
01:27:47,679 --> 01:27:52,480
like to see us add, um, and chief and I

1434
01:27:50,880 --> 01:27:55,760
have spoken about this before, but I

1435
01:27:52,480 --> 01:27:59,199
think it'd be nice to add a a high BAC,

1436
01:27:55,760 --> 01:28:01,199
um, OWI ordinance to our code. Um, right

1437
01:27:59,199 --> 01:28:03,280
now we just have a just a drunk driving

1438
01:28:01,199 --> 01:28:05,760
one, but I think it would be helpful and

1439
01:28:03,280 --> 01:28:09,760
give me some um, more leverage if we

1440
01:28:05,760 --> 01:28:10,800
added a high BAC um, which is 0.17 or

1441
01:28:09,760 --> 01:28:13,360
higher.

1442
01:28:10,800 --> 01:28:15,600
uh and and it's a different level and

1443
01:28:13,360 --> 01:28:18,719
the main thing that that brings in is a

1444
01:28:15,600 --> 01:28:20,880
different um licensing sanction. Uh so

1445
01:28:18,719 --> 01:28:23,440
uh it's still I will still have to work

1446
01:28:20,880 --> 01:28:26,239
within the 90day frame of any local

1447
01:28:23,440 --> 01:28:29,520
ordinance as far as jail time, but the

1448
01:28:26,239 --> 01:28:32,320
licensing sanctions are are really um

1449
01:28:29,520 --> 01:28:33,679
severe and they you actually lose your

1450
01:28:32,320 --> 01:28:35,920
license for a year, then you have to put

1451
01:28:33,679 --> 01:28:38,719
a breathalyzer in your car. So, I think

1452
01:28:35,920 --> 01:28:42,639
um sometimes I see cases that are very

1453
01:28:38,719 --> 01:28:45,120
high here um on occasion uh over over a

1454
01:28:42,639 --> 01:28:47,520
two or over a three. So, that would be

1455
01:28:45,120 --> 01:28:49,920
something that might be something we

1456
01:28:47,520 --> 01:28:52,880
could consider. Um and we may want to

1457
01:28:49,920 --> 01:28:55,199
consider um a domestic violence

1458
01:28:52,880 --> 01:28:57,600
ordinance as well, which we don't have.

1459
01:28:55,199 --> 01:28:59,600
So, we have to um write that under

1460
01:28:57,600 --> 01:29:02,320
assault and battery if we want to keep

1461
01:28:59,600 --> 01:29:03,920
it local. And I think uh a domestic

1462
01:29:02,320 --> 01:29:08,760
violence might be something that we

1463
01:29:03,920 --> 01:29:08,760
would we might want to consider adding.

1464
01:29:09,440 --> 01:29:13,679
» Now is that normally the departments

1465
01:29:12,080 --> 01:29:15,520
that come up with that stuff or is it

1466
01:29:13,679 --> 01:29:17,760
the usually the prosecutors notices

1467
01:29:15,520 --> 01:29:18,960
these things which

1468
01:29:17,760 --> 01:29:20,480
» I think it's sort of

1469
01:29:18,960 --> 01:29:22,960
» Collaborative both or

1470
01:29:20,480 --> 01:29:26,400
» Yeah, I think it's a collaborative both

1471
01:29:22,960 --> 01:29:28,719
really. um we'd have to identify a need

1472
01:29:26,400 --> 01:29:31,679
and and talk with it and then decide if

1473
01:29:28,719 --> 01:29:35,040
we were in agreement and then present it

1474
01:29:31,679 --> 01:29:36,400
to council um for council's approval and

1475
01:29:35,040 --> 01:29:40,000
thoughts upon it.

1476
01:29:36,400 --> 01:29:41,360
» Okay. And in closing, any closing things

1477
01:29:40,000 --> 01:29:43,600
that you'd like to say?

1478
01:29:41,360 --> 01:29:46,080
» Um you know, I mean it's it's been a

1479
01:29:43,600 --> 01:29:48,320
pleasure, you know, like it really has.

1480
01:29:46,080 --> 01:29:50,239
Uh and so I've been with Wayne now for

1481
01:29:48,320 --> 01:29:52,639
like I said, uh I think it's eight or

1482
01:29:50,239 --> 01:29:54,400
nine years. And as I started out saying

1483
01:29:52,639 --> 01:29:57,600
like the different department heads that

1484
01:29:54,400 --> 01:29:59,440
I've gone through and um worked with and

1485
01:29:57,600 --> 01:30:03,440
uh you know I got to work with Judge

1486
01:29:59,440 --> 01:30:06,080
Mack who's um kind of like a a legend

1487
01:30:03,440 --> 01:30:08,960
area judge really. She was you know as

1488
01:30:06,080 --> 01:30:10,800
you guys know she started uh the mental

1489
01:30:08,960 --> 01:30:12,639
health treatment court with uh Judge

1490
01:30:10,800 --> 01:30:15,360
David Gubau who's another one of my

1491
01:30:12,639 --> 01:30:17,360
mentors. Um so that was just so exciting

1492
01:30:15,360 --> 01:30:20,400
to come here and get to work from her

1493
01:30:17,360 --> 01:30:23,840
and and learn under her. And then um

1494
01:30:20,400 --> 01:30:26,000
just I've really kind of come to really

1495
01:30:23,840 --> 01:30:29,120
love Wayne in a lot of ways and the city

1496
01:30:26,000 --> 01:30:32,320
and I didn't even really know that there

1497
01:30:29,120 --> 01:30:35,280
was a city of Wayne, you know, before I

1498
01:30:32,320 --> 01:30:37,120
before I got this job. Um I I was aware

1499
01:30:35,280 --> 01:30:39,120
of it, but I just didn't live close. I

1500
01:30:37,120 --> 01:30:41,520
knew it was next to Westland and but I

1501
01:30:39,120 --> 01:30:43,840
had never been here and and um now I've

1502
01:30:41,520 --> 01:30:46,080
been coming here, you know, regularly

1503
01:30:43,840 --> 01:30:48,639
for for years and it's just a really

1504
01:30:46,080 --> 01:30:50,320
it's a really nice city. Um, and like I

1505
01:30:48,639 --> 01:30:51,520
said, I'm I think you guys should be

1506
01:30:50,320 --> 01:30:54,000
really really proud of your police

1507
01:30:51,520 --> 01:30:56,239
department. It's been an honor for me to

1508
01:30:54,000 --> 01:30:58,239
work with them and to get to know them.

1509
01:30:56,239 --> 01:31:01,679
Um, I just have nothing but respect for

1510
01:30:58,239 --> 01:31:04,320
the the officers here. They do they do a

1511
01:31:01,679 --> 01:31:07,120
really good job. Yeah. Really good job.

1512
01:31:04,320 --> 01:31:08,639
And that that's all I have to say.

1513
01:31:07,120 --> 01:31:10,159
» Okay. Well, thank you.

1514
01:31:08,639 --> 01:31:12,159
» Thank you.

1515
01:31:10,159 --> 01:31:15,159
» Thank you. We're going to take five

1516
01:31:12,159 --> 01:31:15,159
minutes.

1517
01:35:53,679 --> 01:36:01,440
Uh welcome. We are now on Rosetti

1518
01:35:57,040 --> 01:36:03,440
Schultz, Jopic and Ambushler uh PC. And

1519
01:36:01,440 --> 01:36:05,840
uh we'll start with letting you guys

1520
01:36:03,440 --> 01:36:08,080
tell us about uh give us your personal

1521
01:36:05,840 --> 01:36:10,480
bio, years of relevant service,

1522
01:36:08,080 --> 01:36:15,040
experience, years with the existing your

1523
01:36:10,480 --> 01:36:16,960
firm and uh and many municipalities that

1524
01:36:15,040 --> 01:36:20,000
you currently serve, ability per the

1525
01:36:16,960 --> 01:36:22,800
judge request, and back up when

1526
01:36:20,000 --> 01:36:25,600
necessary, and your hourly rate.

1527
01:36:22,800 --> 01:36:29,040
» Um good evening. I'm Ann McLaclin as you

1528
01:36:25,600 --> 01:36:32,320
know um I'm a shareholder with our firm

1529
01:36:29,040 --> 01:36:34,719
and um I am a former prosecutor even

1530
01:36:32,320 --> 01:36:36,800
though that is not generally um part of

1531
01:36:34,719 --> 01:36:40,400
my current practice. I did formerly

1532
01:36:36,800 --> 01:36:43,600
prosecute in Garden City and Redford

1533
01:36:40,400 --> 01:36:47,199
Township. Um

1534
01:36:43,600 --> 01:36:49,679
I will not be a prosecutor for Wayne

1535
01:36:47,199 --> 01:36:52,719
should uh you choose to hire our firm

1536
01:36:49,679 --> 01:36:55,440
for this. Um but um I do want to point

1537
01:36:52,719 --> 01:36:58,400
out that our firm does serve many many

1538
01:36:55,440 --> 01:37:01,679
different communities uh as prosecutors.

1539
01:36:58,400 --> 01:37:03,600
We have presently 12 or more uh

1540
01:37:01,679 --> 01:37:06,719
attorneys in our firm who do

1541
01:37:03,600 --> 01:37:09,840
prosecutorial work including Matthew

1542
01:37:06,719 --> 01:37:11,840
Wayne who is with me tonight and I would

1543
01:37:09,840 --> 01:37:14,960
um like to introduce him to you and let

1544
01:37:11,840 --> 01:37:17,199
him describe um his relevant experience.

1545
01:37:14,960 --> 01:37:20,159
Um I would like to say one thing and

1546
01:37:17,199 --> 01:37:23,600
that is that um our hourly rate that we

1547
01:37:20,159 --> 01:37:26,960
have proposed is $195 an hour for uh

1548
01:37:23,600 --> 01:37:28,719
prosecutorial services.

1549
01:37:26,960 --> 01:37:30,639
» Okay.

1550
01:37:28,719 --> 01:37:32,639
» Thank you. So uh good evening council

1551
01:37:30,639 --> 01:37:35,280
members and madame clerk and madam

1552
01:37:32,639 --> 01:37:37,600
manager and all attendees. So yes, my

1553
01:37:35,280 --> 01:37:41,199
name is Matthew Wayne. I've been with

1554
01:37:37,600 --> 01:37:43,440
Rosati Schultz for two years. Um, I've

1555
01:37:41,199 --> 01:37:45,760
prosecuted in a number of places across

1556
01:37:43,440 --> 01:37:48,239
Michigan, actually 14 communities and 13

1557
01:37:45,760 --> 01:37:50,320
different district courts. I currently

1558
01:37:48,239 --> 01:37:54,159
prosecute for the city of East Lancing

1559
01:37:50,320 --> 01:37:56,480
in Giel Township. Um, in the past I have

1560
01:37:54,159 --> 01:37:59,360
prosecuted Hand Tramic and Ingster, each

1561
01:37:56,480 --> 01:38:00,960
of those for four years. And I have

1562
01:37:59,360 --> 01:38:03,920
filled in for colleagues and number

1563
01:38:00,960 --> 01:38:05,920
other communities such as Novi,

1564
01:38:03,920 --> 01:38:08,960
Berkeley,

1565
01:38:05,920 --> 01:38:13,159
um, Bloomfield Township, Sagen Township,

1566
01:38:08,960 --> 01:38:13,159
and city among others.

1567
01:38:13,600 --> 01:38:17,920
» Okay.

1568
01:38:16,239 --> 01:38:20,480
Um

1569
01:38:17,920 --> 01:38:22,960
we had a request from the judge uh her

1570
01:38:20,480 --> 01:38:26,719
availability request. Uh is your firm

1571
01:38:22,960 --> 01:38:29,040
able to provide prosecutional services

1572
01:38:26,719 --> 01:38:32,239
for the 29th District Court's criminal

1573
01:38:29,040 --> 01:38:36,000
dockets every week, Tuesday from 8:00

1574
01:38:32,239 --> 01:38:39,360
a.m. to noon and one Monday a month at

1575
01:38:36,000 --> 01:38:42,239
8:00 a.m. to noon. Uh and jury trials

1576
01:38:39,360 --> 01:38:45,520
are held on Tuesdays or Fridays when

1577
01:38:42,239 --> 01:38:49,119
necessary. Uh it's imperative that our

1578
01:38:45,520 --> 01:38:52,159
city's legal representation be available

1579
01:38:49,119 --> 01:38:54,080
able to offer sufficient staffing to

1580
01:38:52,159 --> 01:38:55,760
cover these dockets.

1581
01:38:54,080 --> 01:38:58,400
» Yes.

1582
01:38:55,760 --> 01:39:03,560
» So you're good. Okay.

1583
01:38:58,400 --> 01:39:03,560
Okay. Councilwoman Lawrence

1584
01:39:05,600 --> 01:39:10,880
» Define discretion as it apply as it

1585
01:39:08,080 --> 01:39:13,199
appeals to as it appeals to your role as

1586
01:39:10,880 --> 01:39:16,320
city prosecutor and how would you use

1587
01:39:13,199 --> 01:39:18,960
this discretion?

1588
01:39:16,320 --> 01:39:21,679
» Good question. Obviously discretion is a

1589
01:39:18,960 --> 01:39:23,520
an important part of being a prosecutor.

1590
01:39:21,679 --> 01:39:26,480
Um it can mean different things

1591
01:39:23,520 --> 01:39:28,400
depending on the context. Um, but as

1592
01:39:26,480 --> 01:39:30,000
prosecutors, and we learned this early

1593
01:39:28,400 --> 01:39:31,280
in law school, if you are a prosecutor,

1594
01:39:30,000 --> 01:39:33,840
you wear the hat of what's called a

1595
01:39:31,280 --> 01:39:35,600
minister of justice. And when you're

1596
01:39:33,840 --> 01:39:38,159
doing that, it means unlike a defense

1597
01:39:35,600 --> 01:39:40,639
attorney, for example, who is obligated

1598
01:39:38,159 --> 01:39:43,440
to uh go all out for their client, for

1599
01:39:40,639 --> 01:39:46,480
lack of a better term, um I'm not always

1600
01:39:43,440 --> 01:39:49,520
required to go all out for my client in

1601
01:39:46,480 --> 01:39:53,840
the sense that if there is something

1602
01:39:49,520 --> 01:39:56,719
that um is improper about an arrest, for

1603
01:39:53,840 --> 01:39:58,400
an example, I can't proceed on that. If

1604
01:39:56,719 --> 01:40:00,239
there is insufficient evidence to bring

1605
01:39:58,400 --> 01:40:01,679
a case, I just can't proceed on that

1606
01:40:00,239 --> 01:40:04,320
merely because I want to or merely

1607
01:40:01,679 --> 01:40:06,960
because pressure me to do so. Um,

1608
01:40:04,320 --> 01:40:10,639
discretion, again, it's probably easier

1609
01:40:06,960 --> 01:40:12,320
um to give an example um as to define,

1610
01:40:10,639 --> 01:40:15,360
but

1611
01:40:12,320 --> 01:40:17,040
discretion is using sound judgment

1612
01:40:15,360 --> 01:40:20,080
coupled with ethics and professionalism

1613
01:40:17,040 --> 01:40:22,320
in determining what cases to prosecute

1614
01:40:20,080 --> 01:40:24,960
and how vigorously to prosecute a

1615
01:40:22,320 --> 01:40:29,719
defendant.

1616
01:40:24,960 --> 01:40:29,719
Okay. Anything else?

1617
01:40:29,840 --> 01:40:34,239
Councilwoman was

1618
01:40:32,000 --> 01:40:35,920
» Um can you break down

1619
01:40:34,239 --> 01:40:38,800
uh can you provide a breakdown of your

1620
01:40:35,920 --> 01:40:41,360
experience with uh residential and

1621
01:40:38,800 --> 01:40:44,239
commercial industrial compliance such as

1622
01:40:41,360 --> 01:40:47,520
um such as occupying a building without

1623
01:40:44,239 --> 01:40:50,719
a CO and an an inspector's right to

1624
01:40:47,520 --> 01:40:53,199
enter. So I've uh for multiple

1625
01:40:50,719 --> 01:40:54,880
communities where I've prosecuted um a

1626
01:40:53,199 --> 01:40:56,639
lot of them who have taken their cues

1627
01:40:54,880 --> 01:40:59,040
from the state codes. Those are issues

1628
01:40:56,639 --> 01:41:01,520
that come up time.

1629
01:40:59,040 --> 01:41:03,600
As far as the ability in reverse order

1630
01:41:01,520 --> 01:41:08,320
as far as the ability for an inspector

1631
01:41:03,600 --> 01:41:10,320
to enter um a premises um absent

1632
01:41:08,320 --> 01:41:13,600
accident circumstances, there has to be

1633
01:41:10,320 --> 01:41:15,840
reasonable cause for an individual um

1634
01:41:13,600 --> 01:41:18,000
who's doing those inspections to enter

1635
01:41:15,840 --> 01:41:20,159
onto the property. There are of course

1636
01:41:18,000 --> 01:41:22,639
um circumstances such as um and this

1637
01:41:20,159 --> 01:41:24,719
would not go for something like plumbing

1638
01:41:22,639 --> 01:41:27,840
for example, but for violations that can

1639
01:41:24,719 --> 01:41:30,400
be seen from the street or from someone

1640
01:41:27,840 --> 01:41:33,199
else's property with their permission.

1641
01:41:30,400 --> 01:41:35,760
um that would be different. Um with um

1642
01:41:33,199 --> 01:41:38,560
certain um violations, plumbing and

1643
01:41:35,760 --> 01:41:40,880
mechanical, um those get a little more

1644
01:41:38,560 --> 01:41:43,199
pressing if there's something dangerous

1645
01:41:40,880 --> 01:41:44,800
um or if there something dangerous is

1646
01:41:43,199 --> 01:41:47,600
suspected of occurring there and it may

1647
01:41:44,800 --> 01:41:50,960
be necessary to engage the court because

1648
01:41:47,600 --> 01:41:53,119
unlike with um other types of offenses,

1649
01:41:50,960 --> 01:41:55,679
the the logic is you can't wait until

1650
01:41:53,119 --> 01:41:58,960
something bad happens. There has to be

1651
01:41:55,679 --> 01:42:01,600
some kind of impetus to um be able to go

1652
01:41:58,960 --> 01:42:06,159
and proactive about that and I've had to

1653
01:42:01,600 --> 01:42:08,400
do that. I've had to deal with um uh in

1654
01:42:06,159 --> 01:42:10,320
Hammock, for example, an older community

1655
01:42:08,400 --> 01:42:12,000
with structures there. Um it was

1656
01:42:10,320 --> 01:42:14,320
imperative that we had to go in there

1657
01:42:12,000 --> 01:42:15,600
and we had to take care of problem

1658
01:42:14,320 --> 01:42:17,520
structures because there were buildings

1659
01:42:15,600 --> 01:42:19,760
there that some of them were 100 years

1660
01:42:17,520 --> 01:42:22,800
old and they were just flatout dangerous

1661
01:42:19,760 --> 01:42:24,320
and um it's certainly not a glamorous

1662
01:42:22,800 --> 01:42:26,560
part of prosecuting. Not that any of it

1663
01:42:24,320 --> 01:42:28,560
is, but it's necessary. It has to get

1664
01:42:26,560 --> 01:42:31,119
done for the safety of the community.

1665
01:42:28,560 --> 01:42:32,560
Um, it's an eyesore, but beyond that,

1666
01:42:31,119 --> 01:42:33,760
nobody wants to hear about a kid or

1667
01:42:32,560 --> 01:42:35,360
anybody else for that matter getting

1668
01:42:33,760 --> 01:42:37,600
injured because someone's not taking

1669
01:42:35,360 --> 01:42:39,600
care of their property. And so, I

1670
01:42:37,600 --> 01:42:42,320
consider it just as an important part of

1671
01:42:39,600 --> 01:42:44,320
prosecuting as

1672
01:42:42,320 --> 01:42:46,639
prosecuting drunk drivers or assault or

1673
01:42:44,320 --> 01:42:48,320
anything else. Um, if the community has

1674
01:42:46,639 --> 01:42:49,520
prohibitions against it, then it's

1675
01:42:48,320 --> 01:42:52,159
something that needs to be paid

1676
01:42:49,520 --> 01:42:53,119
attention.

1677
01:42:52,159 --> 01:42:56,920
» Thank you.

1678
01:42:53,119 --> 01:42:56,920
» Okay. protest.

1679
01:42:57,119 --> 01:43:01,199
» Is there anything

1680
01:42:59,040 --> 01:43:03,600
is there anything that you could do as a

1681
01:43:01,199 --> 01:43:06,639
city prosecutor to improve the

1682
01:43:03,600 --> 01:43:07,840
efficiency of city court operations just

1683
01:43:06,639 --> 01:43:09,520
in general?

1684
01:43:07,840 --> 01:43:11,199
» So that of course without knowing

1685
01:43:09,520 --> 01:43:14,159
exactly how things run over there.

1686
01:43:11,199 --> 01:43:16,719
That's something I'd have to be able to

1687
01:43:14,159 --> 01:43:19,119
um have to take a look at. But that

1688
01:43:16,719 --> 01:43:21,760
said, I mean any community or I've ever

1689
01:43:19,119 --> 01:43:24,080
um prosecuted um I've met with the

1690
01:43:21,760 --> 01:43:27,040
police department and the administrator

1691
01:43:24,080 --> 01:43:28,480
to go over policies and procedures. Um,

1692
01:43:27,040 --> 01:43:30,880
I like to know why something's being

1693
01:43:28,480 --> 01:43:32,320
done in a certain way. Um, I understand

1694
01:43:30,880 --> 01:43:34,560
certain communities want things done in

1695
01:43:32,320 --> 01:43:36,960
a certain way, but sometimes there are

1696
01:43:34,560 --> 01:43:38,880
policies and procedures which are

1697
01:43:36,960 --> 01:43:42,239
slowing things down or they're kind of

1698
01:43:38,880 --> 01:43:43,920
relics. Um, I've been there's a I've

1699
01:43:42,239 --> 01:43:47,280
prosecuted in some courts where, for

1700
01:43:43,920 --> 01:43:49,600
example, um the courts continue to use

1701
01:43:47,280 --> 01:43:51,199
discovery orders. um and that's for

1702
01:43:49,600 --> 01:43:53,840
misdemeanor cases and that's kind of a

1703
01:43:51,199 --> 01:43:56,639
throwback to before 2020 when the court

1704
01:43:53,840 --> 01:43:58,880
rules changed when uh discovery was not

1705
01:43:56,639 --> 01:44:01,199
mandatory for misdemeanor cases. That's

1706
01:43:58,880 --> 01:44:03,199
not the case now. So even if there and I

1707
01:44:01,199 --> 01:44:05,040
I'm not saying that this would uh this

1708
01:44:03,199 --> 01:44:07,280
uh condition would present itself, but

1709
01:44:05,040 --> 01:44:09,920
if I found for example that discovery

1710
01:44:07,280 --> 01:44:11,679
was not being offered um right away,

1711
01:44:09,920 --> 01:44:15,440
exculpatory material, something that

1712
01:44:11,679 --> 01:44:17,280
would tend to um to disprove someone's

1713
01:44:15,440 --> 01:44:19,280
guilt. Um, that's the kind of thing I

1714
01:44:17,280 --> 01:44:22,880
like to get on that right away to move

1715
01:44:19,280 --> 01:44:24,560
cases along um, and get those materials

1716
01:44:22,880 --> 01:44:26,400
over there because we have an obligation

1717
01:44:24,560 --> 01:44:28,000
and then rather than um, if it's

1718
01:44:26,400 --> 01:44:29,920
something rather than wait for an

1719
01:44:28,000 --> 01:44:31,440
attorney to ask me, I've also developed

1720
01:44:29,920 --> 01:44:34,159
a lot of relationships with defense

1721
01:44:31,440 --> 01:44:35,920
attorneys and so um, those folks who

1722
01:44:34,159 --> 01:44:38,480
I've worked with um, it's easy for me to

1723
01:44:35,920 --> 01:44:40,400
reach out in advance and to work

1724
01:44:38,480 --> 01:44:43,280
something out and to keep the docket

1725
01:44:40,400 --> 01:44:45,119
from getting clogged. Um, in terms of

1726
01:44:43,280 --> 01:44:48,159
other matters of efficiency, I don't

1727
01:44:45,119 --> 01:44:51,119
know, this kind of uh might bleed into

1728
01:44:48,159 --> 01:44:52,960
some other areas, but um I've always

1729
01:44:51,119 --> 01:44:55,520
been big on helping um the police

1730
01:44:52,960 --> 01:44:57,520
department if requested um with

1731
01:44:55,520 --> 01:45:01,199
information about how to write more

1732
01:44:57,520 --> 01:45:03,280
efficient police reports. Um we've

1733
01:45:01,199 --> 01:45:05,119
worked with police departments um and

1734
01:45:03,280 --> 01:45:08,159
helping officers who have little or no

1735
01:45:05,119 --> 01:45:10,320
experience testifying um because one of

1736
01:45:08,159 --> 01:45:12,480
the worst things is to be put in a

1737
01:45:10,320 --> 01:45:14,560
position where never testify before any

1738
01:45:12,480 --> 01:45:16,000
type of proceeding and you know god

1739
01:45:14,560 --> 01:45:18,400
forbid you don't want it to happen but

1740
01:45:16,000 --> 01:45:20,320
then somebody catastrophic happened

1741
01:45:18,400 --> 01:45:22,400
someone has to testify and I have seen

1742
01:45:20,320 --> 01:45:24,159
that happen in other communities there

1743
01:45:22,400 --> 01:45:25,840
was a state case not one of the ones

1744
01:45:24,159 --> 01:45:28,800
that I have but there was some officers

1745
01:45:25,840 --> 01:45:30,560
never testified an experienced um

1746
01:45:28,800 --> 01:45:32,800
assistant prosecuting attorney from

1747
01:45:30,560 --> 01:45:34,400
county and they had defense attorneys

1748
01:45:32,800 --> 01:45:35,760
who've been doing this for 40 years.

1749
01:45:34,400 --> 01:45:38,239
Well, guess who got chewed up and spit

1750
01:45:35,760 --> 01:45:40,400
out? Those new officers. I never want to

1751
01:45:38,239 --> 01:45:42,080
see that happen. So, I pledged from that

1752
01:45:40,400 --> 01:45:45,119
point that I would always make sure that

1753
01:45:42,080 --> 01:45:46,800
the departments and all the education um

1754
01:45:45,119 --> 01:45:49,119
any resources that we could possibly

1755
01:45:46,800 --> 01:45:52,320
give them so that they could um testify

1756
01:45:49,119 --> 01:45:54,639
efficiently, testify knowledgeably, and

1757
01:45:52,320 --> 01:45:57,679
do a good job so that we don't let the

1758
01:45:54,639 --> 01:45:59,520
bad guys loose, so to speak.

1759
01:45:57,679 --> 01:46:03,040
» Okay.

1760
01:45:59,520 --> 01:46:05,280
So, are there any matters you would or

1761
01:46:03,040 --> 01:46:08,320
would not provide counsel to the police

1762
01:46:05,280 --> 01:46:09,920
department on?

1763
01:46:08,320 --> 01:46:12,480
» I can't really think of any. I mean, we

1764
01:46:09,920 --> 01:46:14,880
like, as I just uh detailed, we we do so

1765
01:46:12,480 --> 01:46:16,800
many in terms of um testimonial

1766
01:46:14,880 --> 01:46:18,719
training, but we also offer um

1767
01:46:16,800 --> 01:46:21,840
constitutional advice, work on search

1768
01:46:18,719 --> 01:46:23,920
and seizures, best practices. Um if it

1769
01:46:21,840 --> 01:46:25,440
if it connects with law enforcement, if

1770
01:46:23,920 --> 01:46:26,719
it's going to make the community safer,

1771
01:46:25,440 --> 01:46:28,960
it's going to make the police department

1772
01:46:26,719 --> 01:46:32,000
better. And I have that knowledge. I'm

1773
01:46:28,960 --> 01:46:33,280
absolutely going to share it. And uh

1774
01:46:32,000 --> 01:46:35,360
something that's nice about having a

1775
01:46:33,280 --> 01:46:37,199
firm with so many people with uh so many

1776
01:46:35,360 --> 01:46:40,000
experience because as I believe she

1777
01:46:37,199 --> 01:46:41,760
said, that's really all our firm does.

1778
01:46:40,000 --> 01:46:45,600
Um if there's something I don't happen

1779
01:46:41,760 --> 01:46:48,159
to know or if I'm not up to, you know,

1780
01:46:45,600 --> 01:46:49,840
this up to speed exactly in the moment,

1781
01:46:48,159 --> 01:46:52,719
I can almost guarantee we have somebody

1782
01:46:49,840 --> 01:46:54,719
at our firm who who is up on that and

1783
01:46:52,719 --> 01:46:57,440
who has done that, who has briefed the

1784
01:46:54,719 --> 01:46:58,639
matter and probably litigated it. And um

1785
01:46:57,440 --> 01:47:00,239
That's a great thing about our firm.

1786
01:46:58,639 --> 01:47:04,000
Those attorneys always making themselves

1787
01:47:00,239 --> 01:47:05,440
available um as a resource. So again, I

1788
01:47:04,000 --> 01:47:07,520
I can't really think of anything that I

1789
01:47:05,440 --> 01:47:08,639
would counsel the police department on.

1790
01:47:07,520 --> 01:47:10,719
I said anything that's going to make a

1791
01:47:08,639 --> 01:47:13,280
better law better law enforcement agency

1792
01:47:10,719 --> 01:47:16,560
and a safer community. I know I'm going

1793
01:47:13,280 --> 01:47:20,600
to offer my services.

1794
01:47:16,560 --> 01:47:20,600
Uh, Councilman Lawrence,

1795
01:47:22,080 --> 01:47:26,719
» How many cases have you represented with

1796
01:47:24,400 --> 01:47:30,239
a municipality regarding environmental

1797
01:47:26,719 --> 01:47:33,199
violations such as air quality, fugitive

1798
01:47:30,239 --> 01:47:36,000
dust, geotechnical reports, and various

1799
01:47:33,199 --> 01:47:38,800
soil contamination testing? Did you go

1800
01:47:36,000 --> 01:47:40,560
to trial and what were the outcomes? I

1801
01:47:38,800 --> 01:47:43,920
have never had to prosecute any type of

1802
01:47:40,560 --> 01:47:47,639
environmental um ordinances or any types

1803
01:47:43,920 --> 01:47:47,639
of environmental violations.

1804
01:47:49,040 --> 01:47:54,320
And while I have not prosecuted them in

1805
01:47:51,760 --> 01:47:57,600
a in a criminal case um for ordinance

1806
01:47:54,320 --> 01:48:00,159
enforcement, I have dealt with um

1807
01:47:57,600 --> 01:48:02,719
environmental concerns and worked with

1808
01:48:00,159 --> 01:48:06,000
Eagle, which um does have jurisdiction

1809
01:48:02,719 --> 01:48:08,880
over things like air quality um and

1810
01:48:06,000 --> 01:48:13,840
fugitive dust as as is described in the

1811
01:48:08,880 --> 01:48:15,600
in your question. Um and our role um in

1812
01:48:13,840 --> 01:48:17,600
that case I was hired as a special

1813
01:48:15,600 --> 01:48:20,800
counsel for another city and they asked

1814
01:48:17,600 --> 01:48:24,480
me to initially to look into the

1815
01:48:20,800 --> 01:48:26,560
possibility of um abating a nuisance and

1816
01:48:24,480 --> 01:48:28,960
preventing demolition of a what would

1817
01:48:26,560 --> 01:48:31,199
they call it historic building um

1818
01:48:28,960 --> 01:48:33,119
because it contained asbestous and there

1819
01:48:31,199 --> 01:48:35,119
was some remediation that needed to be

1820
01:48:33,119 --> 01:48:39,119
done. So our role in that particular

1821
01:48:35,119 --> 01:48:42,560
case was to work with Eagle. Um we

1822
01:48:39,119 --> 01:48:47,679
obtained the uh property developer and

1823
01:48:42,560 --> 01:48:49,280
or demolition companies um um promise

1824
01:48:47,679 --> 01:48:51,440
and they carried through with it that

1825
01:48:49,280 --> 01:48:54,400
they would provide us with daily air

1826
01:48:51,440 --> 01:48:57,920
monitor uh and air quality readings and

1827
01:48:54,400 --> 01:49:02,080
things like that. so that we um ended up

1828
01:48:57,920 --> 01:49:03,840
proactively preventing any types of

1829
01:49:02,080 --> 01:49:06,159
problems that would affect the

1830
01:49:03,840 --> 01:49:08,639
neighboring properties and communities.

1831
01:49:06,159 --> 01:49:11,600
So that um that was, you know, turned

1832
01:49:08,639 --> 01:49:13,040
out to be done safely and while people

1833
01:49:11,600 --> 01:49:15,040
weren't happy that the building was

1834
01:49:13,040 --> 01:49:17,119
eventually demolished, it was done in a

1835
01:49:15,040 --> 01:49:19,900
safe manner and we were able to keep our

1836
01:49:17,119 --> 01:49:21,920
tabs on that.

1837
01:49:19,900 --> 01:49:21,920
[clears throat]

1838
01:49:24,000 --> 01:49:29,600
Councilwoman was.

1839
01:49:27,040 --> 01:49:31,679
» Okay. So, kind of a two-part. How

1840
01:49:29,600 --> 01:49:33,199
familiar are you with our current legal

1841
01:49:31,679 --> 01:49:35,760
situations?

1842
01:49:33,199 --> 01:49:39,040
And do you have any experience with

1843
01:49:35,760 --> 01:49:42,239
habitual offenders andor difficult

1844
01:49:39,040 --> 01:49:44,560
latigious, mentally ill or retaliatory

1845
01:49:42,239 --> 01:49:46,719
violators?

1846
01:49:44,560 --> 01:49:48,239
So I am aware obviously conversations

1847
01:49:46,719 --> 01:49:51,600
with

1848
01:49:48,239 --> 01:49:54,000
with an about some of the more

1849
01:49:51,600 --> 01:49:56,159
interesting people

1850
01:49:54,000 --> 01:49:59,840
but the that's any community. Uh to

1851
01:49:56,159 --> 01:50:02,239
answer your question um I dealt with um

1852
01:49:59,840 --> 01:50:04,159
all kinds of individuals in prosecuting.

1853
01:50:02,239 --> 01:50:06,080
Yes. So people who are retaliatory yes

1854
01:50:04,159 --> 01:50:08,560
sovereign citizens yes people who

1855
01:50:06,080 --> 01:50:10,159
threaten violence yes

1856
01:50:08,560 --> 01:50:12,960
Ohio State fans. the very worst of

1857
01:50:10,159 --> 01:50:14,960
people.

1858
01:50:12,960 --> 01:50:18,480
Um, no, but all all joking aside, that

1859
01:50:14,960 --> 01:50:19,920
really that's any community. Um, again,

1860
01:50:18,480 --> 01:50:21,920
that's, you know, in those folks who

1861
01:50:19,920 --> 01:50:23,760
reside here or who are in the court

1862
01:50:21,920 --> 01:50:25,920
system, they're still entitled to their

1863
01:50:23,760 --> 01:50:28,639
rights. Um, I personally try to kill

1864
01:50:25,920 --> 01:50:30,480
them with kindness and, you know, be

1865
01:50:28,639 --> 01:50:31,840
respectful to them, but at the end of

1866
01:50:30,480 --> 01:50:35,040
the day, you know, you have to do what

1867
01:50:31,840 --> 01:50:37,040
you have to do. And um I know you know

1868
01:50:35,040 --> 01:50:38,880
something that comes up in that respect

1869
01:50:37,040 --> 01:50:40,560
when you have folks who have civil suits

1870
01:50:38,880 --> 01:50:44,560
sometimes they get picked up for traffic

1871
01:50:40,560 --> 01:50:46,719
violations or you know just other events

1872
01:50:44,560 --> 01:50:48,880
and that's where that discretion comes

1873
01:50:46,719 --> 01:50:51,679
in and and the ethics you have to you

1874
01:50:48,880 --> 01:50:53,199
know go about prosecuting them the way

1875
01:50:51,679 --> 01:50:54,480
that you would prosecute anyone else.

1876
01:50:53,199 --> 01:50:56,159
You have to look at what the criminal

1877
01:50:54,480 --> 01:50:57,679
record is. You have to kind of you know

1878
01:50:56,159 --> 01:51:02,159
divorce yourself from the fact that you

1879
01:50:57,679 --> 01:51:04,320
have civil litigation. Um

1880
01:51:02,159 --> 01:51:06,400
part of what you do as a prosecutor.

1881
01:51:04,320 --> 01:51:08,639
» Thank you,

1882
01:51:06,400 --> 01:51:11,679
» Mayor Proto.

1883
01:51:08,639 --> 01:51:14,400
» Uh, this is a

1884
01:51:11,679 --> 01:51:16,320
this question has several parts in it,

1885
01:51:14,400 --> 01:51:19,040
each one being answered with yes or no.

1886
01:51:16,320 --> 01:51:20,480
An experience question with several

1887
01:51:19,040 --> 01:51:22,880
parts. Uh, what experience do you have

1888
01:51:20,480 --> 01:51:26,239
interpreting and enforcing um these

1889
01:51:22,880 --> 01:51:28,239
following codes? The Michigan uh do you

1890
01:51:26,239 --> 01:51:30,159
have experience interpreting and

1891
01:51:28,239 --> 01:51:32,880
enforcing these following codes? The

1892
01:51:30,159 --> 01:51:35,360
Michigan Building Code. Yes.

1893
01:51:32,880 --> 01:51:36,080
» The residential code or any residential

1894
01:51:35,360 --> 01:51:36,800
code?

1895
01:51:36,080 --> 01:51:38,400
» Yes.

1896
01:51:36,800 --> 01:51:38,960
» Mechanical code?

1897
01:51:38,400 --> 01:51:40,320
» Yes.

1898
01:51:38,960 --> 01:51:40,880
» Plumbing code?

1899
01:51:40,320 --> 01:51:42,320
» Yes.

1900
01:51:40,880 --> 01:51:42,880
» Electrical code?

1901
01:51:42,320 --> 01:51:44,320
» Yes.

1902
01:51:42,880 --> 01:51:44,800
» Fire code?

1903
01:51:44,320 --> 01:51:46,639
» Yes.

1904
01:51:44,800 --> 01:51:47,199
» And property maintenance code?

1905
01:51:46,639 --> 01:51:49,920
» Yes.

1906
01:51:47,199 --> 01:51:52,920
» Thank you.

1907
01:51:49,920 --> 01:51:52,920
Okay.

1908
01:51:55,119 --> 01:52:00,159
So if also I wanted to mention one other

1909
01:51:57,199 --> 01:52:02,000
thing when you you brought up the uh the

1910
01:52:00,159 --> 01:52:05,119
hours that the court has asked the

1911
01:52:02,000 --> 01:52:06,960
prosecutor to be available. Um it's

1912
01:52:05,119 --> 01:52:09,360
always been my practice at well as well

1913
01:52:06,960 --> 01:52:11,119
that in addition to being present for

1914
01:52:09,360 --> 01:52:13,760
the times that the court needs me. I

1915
01:52:11,119 --> 01:52:15,920
don't, you know, keep an eye on clock

1916
01:52:13,760 --> 01:52:18,080
and it's not like if someone needs me

1917
01:52:15,920 --> 01:52:20,239
and it's, you know, past the hours of,

1918
01:52:18,080 --> 01:52:22,880
you know, 12, it's not 12 and 8 on a

1919
01:52:20,239 --> 01:52:25,760
Tuesday or that one Monday. That by no

1920
01:52:22,880 --> 01:52:29,119
means is going to stop me from uh taking

1921
01:52:25,760 --> 01:52:31,280
care of a case. I often get called on um

1922
01:52:29,119 --> 01:52:33,280
to hey, can you jump on Zoom? We have

1923
01:52:31,280 --> 01:52:35,760
somebody who got picked up and we need

1924
01:52:33,280 --> 01:52:38,000
to argue for bond. This person's

1925
01:52:35,760 --> 01:52:40,159
violent. Um, you know, I had it happen

1926
01:52:38,000 --> 01:52:42,480
5:30 on a Friday before other random

1927
01:52:40,159 --> 01:52:44,560
times. As far as I'm concerned, that's

1928
01:52:42,480 --> 01:52:46,000
just part of it. So, as long as I'm

1929
01:52:44,560 --> 01:52:48,639
available, as long as I'm not in a

1930
01:52:46,000 --> 01:52:50,560
hearing or in court somewhere else,

1931
01:52:48,639 --> 01:52:53,040
again, obviously, I will be there. You

1932
01:52:50,560 --> 01:52:56,000
know, if your city selects us as your

1933
01:52:53,040 --> 01:52:59,199
firm, I will be there um for the hours

1934
01:52:56,000 --> 01:53:00,560
in question. But again, by no means um

1935
01:52:59,199 --> 01:53:03,440
means I would be confined to just

1936
01:53:00,560 --> 01:53:04,960
working those hours.

1937
01:53:03,440 --> 01:53:08,960
» Okay.

1938
01:53:04,960 --> 01:53:12,239
So, what do you think uh your role as

1939
01:53:08,960 --> 01:53:13,840
city prosecutor is?

1940
01:53:12,239 --> 01:53:15,360
» Well, I think I've already touched by

1941
01:53:13,840 --> 01:53:17,199
some of this, but I mean, the first and

1942
01:53:15,360 --> 01:53:19,119
foremost, it's assisting and maintaining

1943
01:53:17,199 --> 01:53:20,560
public safety, and that's working with

1944
01:53:19,119 --> 01:53:22,960
the police department and other law

1945
01:53:20,560 --> 01:53:25,119
enforcement agencies to keep the

1946
01:53:22,960 --> 01:53:28,080
community safe in any way, shape, or

1947
01:53:25,119 --> 01:53:30,239
form that I that I can. Um, I need to

1948
01:53:28,080 --> 01:53:32,159
ensure that the law is executed fairly

1949
01:53:30,239 --> 01:53:34,320
and impartially,

1950
01:53:32,159 --> 01:53:37,440
maintain discretion when I need to.

1951
01:53:34,320 --> 01:53:40,880
exercise um sound judgment

1952
01:53:37,440 --> 01:53:42,719
and um also part of that discretion is

1953
01:53:40,880 --> 01:53:44,800
um

1954
01:53:42,719 --> 01:53:46,800
doing things with an eye not only for

1955
01:53:44,800 --> 01:53:48,159
justice but also for judicial economy.

1956
01:53:46,800 --> 01:53:50,800
Sometimes those go hand in hand,

1957
01:53:48,159 --> 01:53:52,239
sometimes they don't. Um but I think you

1958
01:53:50,800 --> 01:53:54,719
know it's a balance of all those and

1959
01:53:52,239 --> 01:53:57,360
then as mentioned um educating and

1960
01:53:54,719 --> 01:53:59,199
providing resources to the police

1961
01:53:57,360 --> 01:54:01,280
department and for that matter anyone

1962
01:53:59,199 --> 01:54:03,440
else um

1963
01:54:01,280 --> 01:54:06,880
is part of the city who wants to avail

1964
01:54:03,440 --> 01:54:09,599
themselves of any other training or

1965
01:54:06,880 --> 01:54:13,199
program.

1966
01:54:09,599 --> 01:54:14,719
» Okay. Now, if you were to selected,

1967
01:54:13,199 --> 01:54:17,040
would you come in and look at our

1968
01:54:14,719 --> 01:54:18,800
ordinances and the things that we have

1969
01:54:17,040 --> 01:54:20,400
and make recommendations of things that

1970
01:54:18,800 --> 01:54:23,760
need to be fixed or how how do you

1971
01:54:20,400 --> 01:54:25,920
normally handle something like that?

1972
01:54:23,760 --> 01:54:27,440
» I think I would work with Ann here. So,

1973
01:54:25,920 --> 01:54:28,560
I don't Yeah, I've already looked at

1974
01:54:27,440 --> 01:54:31,040
some of the ordinances. I've noticed

1975
01:54:28,560 --> 01:54:33,280
like some of the differences um noticed

1976
01:54:31,040 --> 01:54:35,599
that the city of Wayne um some of the

1977
01:54:33,280 --> 01:54:38,080
ordinances rather the extent of the

1978
01:54:35,599 --> 01:54:40,239
ordinances are not as um great as in

1979
01:54:38,080 --> 01:54:42,560
other communities. like lesser offenses

1980
01:54:40,239 --> 01:54:44,719
are handled, excuse me, less offenses or

1981
01:54:42,560 --> 01:54:46,000
fewer offenses rather are handled at the

1982
01:54:44,719 --> 01:54:48,239
local level compared to other

1983
01:54:46,000 --> 01:54:49,679
communities. Um I don't know that it's

1984
01:54:48,239 --> 01:54:51,599
my place to come in and say if

1985
01:54:49,679 --> 01:54:53,840
something's wrong. I mean I like to know

1986
01:54:51,599 --> 01:54:56,639
how it's working. I think that's an

1987
01:54:53,840 --> 01:54:59,119
important part and to gauge um you know

1988
01:54:56,639 --> 01:55:00,560
talking with uh you know folks over at

1989
01:54:59,119 --> 01:55:02,719
the court talking with the police

1990
01:55:00,560 --> 01:55:04,639
department talking with any of you you

1991
01:55:02,719 --> 01:55:06,239
know if how you think that these

1992
01:55:04,639 --> 01:55:09,760
ordinances are working is you know would

1993
01:55:06,239 --> 01:55:11,040
you like to see them um you know be more

1994
01:55:09,760 --> 01:55:13,760
farreaching is there anywhere you think

1995
01:55:11,040 --> 01:55:16,639
the ordinances need to kind of pull back

1996
01:55:13,760 --> 01:55:19,440
and then again working with an or others

1997
01:55:16,639 --> 01:55:21,040
to do the same thing to leers with you

1998
01:55:19,440 --> 01:55:23,280
and and determine what we can do there

1999
01:55:21,040 --> 01:55:24,880
but uh we have uh even though it's not

2000
01:55:23,280 --> 01:55:27,280
something that I do primarily of course

2001
01:55:24,880 --> 01:55:29,760
we do have a lot of experience in um

2002
01:55:27,280 --> 01:55:32,960
preparing ordinances and we have a lot

2003
01:55:29,760 --> 01:55:36,639
of materials that we can pull from.

2004
01:55:32,960 --> 01:55:39,920
» I would just like to um add that um that

2005
01:55:36,639 --> 01:55:42,000
was something that we um included with

2006
01:55:39,920 --> 01:55:47,440
our general counsel

2007
01:55:42,000 --> 01:55:51,199
um proposal as well. But um it is

2008
01:55:47,440 --> 01:55:54,080
commonly our practice to note where we

2009
01:55:51,199 --> 01:55:58,400
feel that the mechanisms that exist are

2010
01:55:54,080 --> 01:56:00,400
not sufficient to do the job of um

2011
01:55:58,400 --> 01:56:03,520
taking care of the problems that the

2012
01:56:00,400 --> 01:56:06,080
city may have. Um, for example, you

2013
01:56:03,520 --> 01:56:08,000
know, there is the state housing law and

2014
01:56:06,080 --> 01:56:10,159
the dangerous building code within the

2015
01:56:08,000 --> 01:56:13,440
state housing law, but it does that also

2016
01:56:10,159 --> 01:56:18,560
allows the city to pass its own housing

2017
01:56:13,440 --> 01:56:21,920
code and perhaps um expand on some of

2018
01:56:18,560 --> 01:56:24,639
the particulars in terms of what

2019
01:56:21,920 --> 01:56:27,360
mechanisms are available to to take care

2020
01:56:24,639 --> 01:56:29,679
of problem properties. Um, especially

2021
01:56:27,360 --> 01:56:33,360
when you've got dangerous buildings. um

2022
01:56:29,679 --> 01:56:35,440
you know for um the um in another

2023
01:56:33,360 --> 01:56:38,639
community they didn't have their

2024
01:56:35,440 --> 01:56:40,719
demolition board uh convened properly

2025
01:56:38,639 --> 01:56:42,320
and so their hands were tied as far as

2026
01:56:40,719 --> 01:56:43,599
how far they could go with dealing with

2027
01:56:42,320 --> 01:56:46,239
those properties. So that's something

2028
01:56:43,599 --> 01:56:49,119
that we suggested um and that that

2029
01:56:46,239 --> 01:56:50,880
actually wasn't a case where we had a um

2030
01:56:49,119 --> 01:56:52,480
they weren't our direct client. we were

2031
01:56:50,880 --> 01:56:55,440
representing them in litigation related

2032
01:56:52,480 --> 01:56:57,280
to that issue and I flat out told them

2033
01:56:55,440 --> 01:56:58,639
you need to take care of this otherwise

2034
01:56:57,280 --> 01:57:02,320
you're going to keep ending up in civil

2035
01:56:58,639 --> 01:57:03,520
litigation if you don't um correct that

2036
01:57:02,320 --> 01:57:05,760
problem and make sure that those

2037
01:57:03,520 --> 01:57:07,679
mechanisms are available to your you

2038
01:57:05,760 --> 01:57:11,560
know your code enforcement officers and

2039
01:57:07,679 --> 01:57:11,560
hearing officers [snorts]

2040
01:57:12,080 --> 01:57:16,880
» Any other questions from

2041
01:57:15,199 --> 01:57:18,800
Okay so if [snorts] you want to give us

2042
01:57:16,880 --> 01:57:21,679
a closing

2043
01:57:18,800 --> 01:57:24,480
pitch do Do you do you like do you think

2044
01:57:21,679 --> 01:57:27,840
it's something that should be

2045
01:57:24,480 --> 01:57:30,000
prosecution by itself or altogether and

2046
01:57:27,840 --> 01:57:32,880
then give your closing?

2047
01:57:30,000 --> 01:57:34,320
» Okay. Um well um we have a number of

2048
01:57:32,880 --> 01:57:36,480
comm we represent a number of

2049
01:57:34,320 --> 01:57:39,199
communities where we are general counsel

2050
01:57:36,480 --> 01:57:43,360
and um we have attorneys in our firm who

2051
01:57:39,199 --> 01:57:45,599
do their prosecutorial work. Um I can I

2052
01:57:43,360 --> 01:57:50,480
can name you a handful right off the top

2053
01:57:45,599 --> 01:57:53,679
of my head. Um and those um jobs seem to

2054
01:57:50,480 --> 01:57:55,679
go hand in hand um because then you you

2055
01:57:53,679 --> 01:57:57,440
have the opportunity to work together on

2056
01:57:55,679 --> 01:57:59,599
something like what we just mentioned

2057
01:57:57,440 --> 01:58:01,040
where um you know we feel that the

2058
01:57:59,599 --> 01:58:02,560
prosecutorial mechanisms are

2059
01:58:01,040 --> 01:58:05,440
insufficient

2060
01:58:02,560 --> 01:58:08,320
um for the in the ordinances that are

2061
01:58:05,440 --> 01:58:10,960
available right now um and recommend

2062
01:58:08,320 --> 01:58:14,800
those types of um amendments or whatever

2063
01:58:10,960 --> 01:58:18,239
changes need to be made. So, um, we do

2064
01:58:14,800 --> 01:58:20,080
we do believe that, um, working with

2065
01:58:18,239 --> 01:58:21,760
general counsel and prosecutors, working

2066
01:58:20,080 --> 01:58:25,599
side by side for the same community

2067
01:58:21,760 --> 01:58:29,119
allows us to have a more cohesive and,

2068
01:58:25,599 --> 01:58:31,679
um, consistent approach to each

2069
01:58:29,119 --> 01:58:33,280
community rather than having to contact,

2070
01:58:31,679 --> 01:58:35,119
if we're general counsel, you know,

2071
01:58:33,280 --> 01:58:37,119
having to contact a prosecutor and say,

2072
01:58:35,119 --> 01:58:38,639
"Hey, this is something we're thinking

2073
01:58:37,119 --> 01:58:41,280
about. What do you think?" You know, it

2074
01:58:38,639 --> 01:58:44,480
just makes it easier to have both. Um

2075
01:58:41,280 --> 01:58:47,199
but certainly we um given that we have

2076
01:58:44,480 --> 01:58:48,560
so much experience, we also do prosecute

2077
01:58:47,199 --> 01:58:50,880
for communities that we don't

2078
01:58:48,560 --> 01:58:54,480
represented as general counsel. So it's

2079
01:58:50,880 --> 01:58:57,440
not exclusive. But I I p personally I

2080
01:58:54,480 --> 01:58:59,199
think it's probably preferable to have

2081
01:58:57,440 --> 01:59:01,280
both because then you have the

2082
01:58:59,199 --> 01:59:03,840
opportunity to serve the community in a

2083
01:59:01,280 --> 01:59:05,840
much broader way than you do in either

2084
01:59:03,840 --> 01:59:10,000
individual instance.

2085
01:59:05,840 --> 01:59:11,679
» Okay. Any closing? Um, no. I I think you

2086
01:59:10,000 --> 01:59:15,199
know, you know, you know me, you know

2087
01:59:11,679 --> 01:59:17,280
our firm. Um, and you know, we would be

2088
01:59:15,199 --> 01:59:20,320
certainly very honored and privileged if

2089
01:59:17,280 --> 01:59:23,599
you chose us um to um be your general

2090
01:59:20,320 --> 01:59:25,840
counsel and prosecutorial firm. Um, and

2091
01:59:23,599 --> 01:59:27,440
we're happy to serve the city of Wayne

2092
01:59:25,840 --> 01:59:28,719
in any way that we can.

2093
01:59:27,440 --> 01:59:29,840
» Okay. Well, thank you.

2094
01:59:28,719 --> 01:59:33,000
» Thank you.

2095
01:59:29,840 --> 01:59:33,000
» Thank you.

2096
01:59:56,560 --> 01:59:58,400
Thank you.

2097
01:59:57,199 --> 02:00:00,159
» Okay, let's go ahead and move the

2098
01:59:58,400 --> 02:00:02,320
agenda.

2099
02:00:00,159 --> 02:00:04,400
» Public comments for matters not on the

2100
02:00:02,320 --> 02:00:06,800
agenda. Public comment is conducted in

2101
02:00:04,400 --> 02:00:08,159
accordance with applicable laws. Public

2102
02:00:06,800 --> 02:00:09,360
comment is limited to three minutes

2103
02:00:08,159 --> 02:00:11,280
which will begin when the speaker

2104
02:00:09,360 --> 02:00:12,880
approaches the podium unless the time is

2105
02:00:11,280 --> 02:00:15,280
extended by a majority vote of city

2106
02:00:12,880 --> 02:00:16,880
council. All public comment shall be

2107
02:00:15,280 --> 02:00:19,280
directed to city council and they shall

2108
02:00:16,880 --> 02:00:20,960
not respond. Public comment shall not be

2109
02:00:19,280 --> 02:00:23,520
disruptive, any violator of public

2110
02:00:20,960 --> 02:00:25,360
comment. Procedures may be ordered to be

2111
02:00:23,520 --> 02:00:27,040
seated immediately or removed by the

2112
02:00:25,360 --> 02:00:29,119
chairperson of the meeting or the

2113
02:00:27,040 --> 02:00:31,440
chairperson's designate.

2114
02:00:29,119 --> 02:00:36,520
» Okay. Any public comment comments on

2115
02:00:31,440 --> 02:00:36,520
matters on the agenda this evening? Yes.

2116
02:00:38,320 --> 02:00:42,400
» First, I'm sorry about my attire, but I

2117
02:00:40,480 --> 02:00:45,599
didn't know this meeting was going on,

2118
02:00:42,400 --> 02:00:47,840
so I just took off and flew down here.

2119
02:00:45,599 --> 02:00:50,800
Um, Nancy Pride, I live on Courier

2120
02:00:47,840 --> 02:00:53,360
Street. Um,

2121
02:00:50,800 --> 02:00:56,639
two questions. I know about the flack

2122
02:00:53,360 --> 02:00:59,119
camera or the flack t cameras. if

2123
02:00:56,639 --> 02:01:01,440
there's any first or second or third

2124
02:00:59,119 --> 02:01:05,599
parties that have attached anything to

2125
02:01:01,440 --> 02:01:09,599
them, um they need to come down. Um the

2126
02:01:05,599 --> 02:01:14,440
other one is do we have a large drone

2127
02:01:09,599 --> 02:01:14,440
that hovers our city?

2128
02:01:15,520 --> 02:01:19,679
And there was one other one that I

2129
02:01:17,440 --> 02:01:21,840
wanted.

2130
02:01:19,679 --> 02:01:24,480
Oh, yes.

2131
02:01:21,840 --> 02:01:26,080
We have seen on uh Facebook, and I know

2132
02:01:24,480 --> 02:01:28,400
you can't believe everything you see on

2133
02:01:26,080 --> 02:01:31,360
Facebook, but I've talked to other

2134
02:01:28,400 --> 02:01:35,040
people and they do have them. Do we or

2135
02:01:31,360 --> 02:01:38,800
are we considering putting our police

2136
02:01:35,040 --> 02:01:42,024
officers in the schools with the stun

2137
02:01:38,800 --> 02:01:44,000
mits on their hands?

2138
02:01:42,024 --> 02:01:45,599
[clears throat] They have them and they

2139
02:01:44,000 --> 02:01:48,000
are putting them in the high schools and

2140
02:01:45,599 --> 02:01:51,040
the different places. So, I want to know

2141
02:01:48,000 --> 02:01:51,040
if this is what

2142
02:01:51,440 --> 02:01:57,360
Nope. Okay. Because to me that's that's

2143
02:01:54,719 --> 02:02:00,719
just such an invasion

2144
02:01:57,360 --> 02:02:03,199
um on young people.

2145
02:02:00,719 --> 02:02:08,159
I feel that it's they're trying to force

2146
02:02:03,199 --> 02:02:10,000
them to compliance and not be

2147
02:02:08,159 --> 02:02:10,560
a citizen of the United States. Thank

2148
02:02:10,000 --> 02:02:13,840
you.

2149
02:02:10,560 --> 02:02:16,840
» Okay. Thank you. Anyone else?

2150
02:02:13,840 --> 02:02:16,840
Yes.

2151
02:02:17,040 --> 02:02:22,639
I was uh John Mills from Chestnut

2152
02:02:19,199 --> 02:02:25,920
Street. Um I was not able to attend your

2153
02:02:22,639 --> 02:02:27,920
August 13th special meeting that uh

2154
02:02:25,920 --> 02:02:30,560
appeared to have been on legal counsel

2155
02:02:27,920 --> 02:02:32,719
as well. Uh just for clarification, was

2156
02:02:30,560 --> 02:02:35,520
that for general counsel and tonight is

2157
02:02:32,719 --> 02:02:39,280
prosecutorial?

2158
02:02:35,520 --> 02:02:42,280
» Yes, that's all. Thanks.

2159
02:02:39,280 --> 02:02:42,280
» Okay.

2160
02:02:42,400 --> 02:02:48,400
» Can I get a motion to adjurnn?

2161
02:02:45,520 --> 02:02:49,520
Motion to adjurnn.

2162
02:02:48,400 --> 02:02:50,719
» Oh, second.

2163
02:02:49,520 --> 02:02:51,440
» All in favor?

2164
02:02:50,719 --> 02:02:53,440
» I

2165
02:02:51,440 --> 02:02:57,000
» Opposed. Motion carries.

2166
02:02:53,440 --> 02:02:57,000
» Have a great night.