audio is at least
ready to start.
>> All right.
» All right.
Now, call to order this meeting of the
White House City Council for today,
August 17th, 2026. It is 8:30
a.m.
So, I guess it is time for roll call.
» Mayor Wley
>> here. Council member Lou
» here. Council member Lou
>> here.
» here.
>> Council member Burns
» Council member Burns
>> here.
» here.
>> Council member Brisco
» Council member Brisco
>> here.
» here.
>> Council member Chambers
» Council member Chambers
>> here.
» here.
>> Council member Lazar.
» Council member Lazar.
>> Thank [snorts] you ma'am. All right. The
» Thank [snorts] you ma'am. All right. The
only action item on this agenda is item
number B which is discuss consideration
and provide direction on the fiscal year
2020 627 budget and tax rate. This be
all we're doing today. We have four
hours scheduled for this section. So
feel free to dive in, ask any questions
necessary. Um, and we kind of have a
hard problem to solve this time.
>> We have some state legislative
» We have some state legislative
changes that came in that removed items
from our tax role. So although we did,
you'll see that although we did grow as
a community over the last year, we also
had some things kind of taken taken off
the plate mostly on the business side
about business business property tax
reductions.
But you'll see and I want to thank
>> Leslie and the staff, Jennifer,
» Leslie and the staff, Jennifer,
everybody for
>> diving in and taking several rounds at
» diving in and taking several rounds at
this. This this document in front of
y'all is a lot of work that they started
a long time ago and have been keeping an
eye on everything coming in from the tax
assessor's office, everything coming in
from the legislation,
everything that's been happening with
our city and it's a snapshot at the
time. I think that was yesterday of what
we're working with at the moment. I
think there's still some final numbers
from the tax assessor's office that
we're waiting on. We have some what are
they called? Disputes or
>> uh properties under protest.
» uh properties under protest.
>> Properties under protest. That window is
» Properties under protest. That window is
extended. Like we always have properties
under protest. That's part of the cycle,
but there was an extension given to that
date of when they had to get those in
and it's overlapping our budgeting
cycle. So, we don't have a clearest
picture as we normally do during this
time. But I think what the staff is
looking for in this meeting is
uh given what we know and given what it
to be what direction the council wants
to take regarding the budget. So with
that, I'll hand it over to uh Oh, sorry,
Zach.
>> Yeah, just want based on what we know
» Yeah, just want based on what we know
now. I mean, what's our shortfall to
what we were planning to do originally?
>> We're going to walk through some of that
» We're going to walk through some of that
because there are some decisions to be
made. staff has identified some
potential savings that we can implement.
And so we'll kind of walk through where
we were, where we are now, and then
where you all would like to head.
>> But it is quite a different journey than
» But it is quite a different journey than
it was last year.
>> It is.
» It is.
>> Okay.
» Okay.
It is a significantly different
conversation than we've had in years
past.
Um, so just to kind of reiterate what
Mayor Wsley had said, what we're going
to do today is just walk through the
financial environment affecting the
budget and why it is so different this
year. Um, we need to evaluate our
general fund, service levels, area for
reduction and particularly public safety
priorities for the upcoming fiscal year.
Um, discuss your options with the
property tax rate and what the
associated taxpayer impact is. And then
um we need direction from you all on
those reductions, additions, and the
rate um to potentially propose a rate on
August 10th. I do think you have some
flexibility if you're not quite ready to
propose a tax rate on August 10th to
possibly push that out to the 24th, but
we'll talk about that as we go through
today to see where all you think um if
you think you're ready to make a
decision on that or if you would like a
little bit more time or more
information.
So, here's kind of look at our timing
today. Um, we will take a break about
10:45
and then plan to head all the way out
until noon. So, we've got a lot to
cover. Um, we're going to spend a lot
more time today than we typically have
on the tax rate and how that's
calculated and what factors go into that
because of such a significant difference
this year than what we've seen in
previous years.
>> [clears throat]
» Um, so I know Mayor Wanley has kind of
looked at, he and I have discussed, he
kind of has four different dials that
he's looking at for how we come to this
conclusion. Um, for us, for as a staff
though, the way we've taken it is, you
know, what level of service should the
city provide, what reductions are we are
acceptable, and then what rate supports
that direction.
Um, and all of those things are tied
together.
So, let's talk about the
financial environment.
Um, what we're seeing now is
significantly more volatility in your
property tax values than what we've seen
in the past. So,
every year we get several different
numbers from the tax appraisal district.
So the one that we kind of the one that
we calculate the tax rate on is the
certified appraisal rule which we
receive on July 25th.
Um that we have the tax rate calculation
form in your notebooks today. So we
received that on July 25th. What changed
this year was our um appraisals grew but
our net taxable value did not. And so
we'll talk a little bit more about that.
Um, as I mentioned to you all
previously,
there was a new exemption that went into
effect this year, House Bill 9, which
increased business business personal
property tax exemptions from 25,000 to
125,000.
That resulted in $10 million of value no
longer being on the tax roles. Um, so
that's a pretty significant difference
in the property tax revenue. As the
mayor mentioned, we do have protests.
So, they have extended the amount of
time that people have to protest their
property tax values. So, for the first
time this year, we have to show about
$2.1 million in value currently under
protest in our tax rate calculation form
that we have not had to do in years
prior. So, that also impacts your tax
rate and can make the rate higher
because you're taking that value out of
your calculation.
Any questions
so far? I know it's a lot of a lot of
words, but we're going to keep keep
going through it.
>> We're going to dive in each one.
» We're going to dive in each one.
>> We are. [laughter]
» We are. [laughter]
>> I know you're also very excited.
» I know you're also very excited.
>> So, the 2.1 that's in protests, how much
» So, the 2.1 that's in protests, how much
could that move the needle for us either
way?
>> I have no idea. Um,
» I have no idea. Um,
there's really
no way for me to know. Oh, you're saying
maybe what's the what portion of the
total does that represent
>> as far as the general fund impact?
» as far as the general fund impact?
>> Yeah.
» Yeah.
>> So, it would be
depending on what M rate you choose. Um,
it's not very much.
At the current rate, it's only about
$15,000 between the general fund and
debt service fund, but it does it does
impact your rate calculation in a way
that it hasn't before. So,
» yeah. What's also strange is uh and
you'll probably get into this, but we
have maintenance and operation and
interest in sinking. And interesting is
a portion of the property tax that we
put towards our obligations, our loans
basically. So when the property tax
total is reduced,
that number needs to come up on the INS
side to reach those obligations. That's
also a situation we're not normally in.
Normally we see that there's more
properties under valuation this year
than last year. Is there any need to
raise the property tax rate and we just
say no? And that's the behavior we've
had for the last five years. Um but it's
a different question this year. We're
probably going to have to at least put
something on the INS side so that we can
meet those debt obligations.
um
so to the mayor's point and O which is
maintenance operations funds our general
fund which is where we're going to spend
most of our time today because of the
change in the financial [clears throat]
outlook and then INS pays debt service
so a little bit of history on how we
calculate debt service because we've
issued some cos in the past so what we
normally do when we're looking at
issuing debt is we have our financial
advisor to prepare a 30-year outlook
that is based on your assessed taxable
values. In the past, that number has
been relatively close to your net
taxable value. So, the amount that
you're actually can count on receiving.
This year, that amount is vastly
different. There's a big enough
difference that it has a significant
impact on the debt rate. Um so based on
a statutory tax rate calculation
the debt rate would need to increase
from about 28 cents to
spreadsheet
335717.
So it's about a 5 cent increase on the
debt rate according to the statuto rate
calculation sheet and that is what is
legally required to meet our legal debt
obligations.
All right and we'll talk about some
other things that factor into that. Um
but as we talk about property tax rates,
we have the current rate which is the
2025 2026 fiscal year rate which is
289852
for the INS and 428003
for IMO for a total rate of 717855.
We use the state rate calculation form
to calculate the non revenue rate, the
voter approval rate and the nitimous
rate. The no new revenue rate is the
approximate rate that generates the same
revenue from properties taxed in both
years excluding new improvements.
So you say, "Hey, we generated $5.3
million last year. What rate would we
charge for $5.3 million this year?" What
it does not do as well is calculating
are changes in your statutory debt
requirements.
So, if you'll notice in your notebook on
the rate calculation form, the no new
revenue rate
is down below the current year even
though our um
valuations went down.
» [clears throat]
» So it's going to be on the very last
page behind your tax rate analysis will
show your know your revenue rate, your
vi approval rate and your dividend rate.
This sign page the last page in the tax
rate analysis section.
So you see there the no new revenue rate
would change our current rate from
717855
to 711646.
The voter approval rate is the rate that
would generate three and a half% more
income more revenue
than your current revenue.
So that rate goes up almost, let's see,
it's up 13 cents over the current rate.
Part of that is because of what we call
the unused increment rate.
So as a council, if you adopt a rate
that is below the voter approval rate,
the state allocates that as what's
called an unused increment rate or gone
revenue, okay, that you could have
adopted but you did not because we have
lean operations. We were committed to
maintaining an overall tax rate. We kept
costs low.
Um, so if you flip back one page, you'll
see the unused increment rate worksheet.
So lines 64
through 68
deal with that unused increment.
So, what this says is that over the last
three years,
because of a strong fiscal commitment
from the council, you all have foregone
revenue of $531,397.
» So, year-over-year, that's a, if I
remember right, that's a pretty big jump
in the voter approval rate.
>> Yeah. What what drives the voter
» Yeah. What what drives the voter
approval rate?
>> It's your unused increment.
» It's your unused increment.
>> Okay.
» Okay.
>> And three and a half%
» And three and a half%
grow.
>> Okay.
» Okay.
>> Yeah. It's over the past five or six
» Yeah. It's over the past five or six
years we've banked that increment,
>> right?
» right?
>> Because
» Because
uh we didn't need it, so we didn't ask
for it. And now because we're at a point
where we may need it, it's there if we
want to if we want to use it.
» So that adds approximate the unused
increment rate
adds about seven cents to the voter
approval rate.
Then you have the dimminimous rate. So
for cities under 30,000 in population,
the state allows for a calculation that
would result in an additional $500,000
in general fund revenue, general fund
and revenue.
So typically in the past, our
dimminimous rate has been higher than
the voter approval rate. They were
swapped this year because of that unused
increment rate. an exhibitor approval
rate higher than the diminous rate. The
important thing about each of these
three rates, so the no new revenue rate,
if you adopt anything over the no new
revenue rate is considered to be a tax
increase. Even if you were to adopt the
same rate that we have today, it's
considered by the state and the way the
legislation is written as a tax
increase.
If you adopt the lower of the voter
approval rate or the dimminimous rate,
it's adopted and there are no further
steps.
If you
in this particular year were to adopt
above the dimminimous rate, voters would
have the opportunity to petition for an
election. If you adopt over the voter
approval rate, it's an automatic
election
>> to the voters. Okay? I just want you to
» to the voters. Okay? I just want you to
understand the implications and the
importance of each of those as we talk
through today.
Okay. Our certified appraisal roles this
year um
were interesting to say the least and
most of you have been updated on this
but I kind of want to I want to cover it
again um to kind of let you know what we
have found since we last discussed it
last year in our certified appraisal
rules. Um we did see significant growth.
Um it was not anything that we felt like
was
exponential. It was a little bit
unordinary in the amount of growth that
we had in business personal property.
Where it really showed up is when we got
the appraisal rule for this year. Um so
last year we had about $40 million in
business personal property growth.
This year our business personal property
growth is down below what we saw in
2023.
Uh when I spoke with the chief
appraiser,
she indicated that this has to do with
commercial leases. And so the entire
value of an entity's commercial lease
was incorrectly allocated to the city of
White House when it should have been
spread across jurisdictions in Smith
County.
The good news, if there is any, is that
all taxpayers were build appropriately
and the amount of revenue that we
collected is correct. So, we did not
overcolct
property tax revenue. And the way that
happens, so certified rolls, you know,
when I'm looking at preparing the budget
and the tax rate, I get really excited
because I'm like, okay, certified rolls
are here. We're good to go. we have this
this number that we can base our next
year on. It's not really how that works.
So, it's it's what we base our tax rate
calculation on and our budget on, but
that number continues to move throughout
the end of the year. Um, protests get
resolved. The um tax assessor collector
has to send out bills. There's potential
for errors, corrections, all of those
things.
So the appraisal district and the
assessor realized the error between July
and October of last year. So the bills
that went out in October were corrected.
We weren't notified of that error, but
um so be it.
So then we received preliminary values
in April. I noticed our business
personal property was down. Then we
reached out to the chief appraiser.
Didn't ever really get a good answer.
Then those House Bill 9 exemptions that
I talked about earlier were also not
reflected on preliminary values. So the
value loss between our preliminary
values in April and certified ROS in
July was about $53 million, which is
significantly more than what we've seen
in years past.
Um, so when we received certified rolls
this July, one thing that we noticed,
our certified role is up, which means
that's a combination of new
construction, growth in property values,
but for the first time that I've ever
seen, net taxable value is down.
that has to do with those exemptions,
protests, um various other factors,
which really makes this challenging
because when you look around and you see
millions of dollars in property growth,
but your revenues are decre your net
taxable value for your revenues are
decreasing.
Um my concern is that I think we will
continue to see this based on what we're
hearing out of the legislature. I think
there's a very real push um to continue
with expanding exemptions, limiting
revenue growth for cities um and local
governments.
>> Yeah. The property taxes collected uh
» Yeah. The property taxes collected uh
don't go to the state. So they go to the
cities, the municipal utility districts,
the schools, TJC, volunteer fire
departments. So politically, it's really
easy for the state to push for
legislation that doesn't impact them
financially. They can say, "We're
reducing your tax rate. We're helping
you out, but they're not doing
anything." That's a hill that they will
stand on because they'll never die on
it. That's not that's not affecting
their bottom line at all. So, there's no
empathy there
uh from the state when it comes to
pushing this stuff. And there's a lot of
momentum. The governor's uh action
points are basically all pointed towards
that.
uh abolishing them without a plan just
like they did these business personal
property taxes um without a way to say
you know who you can argue yes or no
whether it's fair that businesses have
to pay personal property taxes but it's
what budgets are built on and taking
that money away from the county the city
the school TJC municipal fire or
volunteer fire departments without some
contingency to help make up at at at
least for a few years while we figure
out another way to recoup that is what
we ran into this year.
Sorry, got off a tangent.
>> Both other municipalities are running
» Both other municipalities are running
through the same thing.
>> Absolutely.
» Absolutely.
>> Every school, every
» Every school, every
>> care about White House, but this is
» care about White House, but this is
statewide.
>> Yeah.
» Yeah.
>> I mean, it's it's a business personal
» I mean, it's it's a business personal
property tax
>> and there's not a huge business presence
» and there's not a huge business presence
here in White House. you know, we're
kind of what you'd call a bedroom
community where
>> you just imagine how it hits other
» you just imagine how it hits other
cities. You know, [snorts] it's going to
be even harder for some of them.
>> Well, and because of the air at the
» Well, and because of the air at the
appraisal district's office,
it it ended up being about a 40 or $50
million impact to us on business
personal property value from last year
to this year. So, that's significant.
You combine that with what we're seeing
out of the legislature and that's why
that gap between certified appraisal
role and net tax value, you can see how
that gap has just grown over time
to be more and more significant.
>> And this legislator is fighting with the
» And this legislator is fighting with the
appraisal districts on how they do
things. And we're in the middle of that,
too. So, some of the stuff they pass is
a way to reduce property taxes by kind
of hitting them with limitations and
shots. I don't know how they come up
with property tax values. I don't know
why my small lot that my house is on
went from $20,000 to $60,000 this year.
I have no idea how they calculate that
stuff. So, I mean, I have some of the
same questions for the appraisal
districts that our state representatives
do, but it's the legislation that is
aimed at them since a lot of times
bleeds over to us, just like legislation
for large cities, you know, to put them
under control winds up affecting all
cities. But this this personal property
tax uh was not was not stepped up, not
incremented. It was a big jump from 2500
to 125,000. That's that's pretty big. So
yeah, I'd imagine you'll see this a lot
affect a lot of
>> and and as a senior citizen myself, I
» and and as a senior citizen myself, I
was excited as pumpkin pie about
homestead exemption going up. But then
again, there's always a give and a take.
So,
so again, this is just kind of talking
about, you know, this budget workshop is
much much later than we've typically
done in years prior. And a lot of that
is because forecasting what property tax
revenues are going to look like has
become increasingly challenging with
more exemptions, longer protest period,
legislative challenges. Um, and so all
of that really leads to to much less
certainty than what we've had in the
past. Um, typically I could run the tax
rate calculation off of our preliminary
values and have a relative degree of
comfort where we were going to end up on
property tax revenues. this year it was
anyone's guess.
So, and that's what I'm hearing from a
lot of other city managers as well. So,
so one of the things in looking through
this is okay, that's the situation that
we're in. Those are the rules that we
have to play by. What can we do? Let's
really take a good look at what revenues
we're budgeting, what revenues we're
receiving, and how those perform against
each other. So, this chart looks at
three different things. It looks at the
statutory levy, budgeted revenue, and
actual collections. So, the statutory
levy is if you took the tax rate that's
on the tax rate calculation sheet
and calculated your revenue. So you took
your net taxable value divided by 100
times your property tax rate. What
should you be collecting? Okay. So
that's the column in blue.
The gray is what we budgeted for
revenue. So you can see that since 2022
we have typically budgeted more revenue
than the statutory levy. It's because
some of those protests come back online.
um you know that number is again
constantly changing and so we end up
collecting more than what the statutory
levy would show. So our budgeted revenue
um is in the gray and then the red is
what we actually collected.
We typically budget less revenue than
what we're going to collect by design.
We want to make a conservative approach
so that if errors are found between July
and October or even after that we make
sure that we have enough funds to uh
continue operations but you don't want
it to be so much right you want to
collect what you need but not beyond
that. Um so the difference between
actual collections and the statutory
level is usually about 90%.
>> Yeah. 80 88 89 91. Yeah.
» Yeah. 80 88 89 91. Yeah.
>> Averages out to be about 90%. And then
» Averages out to be about 90%. And then
budgeted revenue, we've tried to keep it
about 97% of actual collections. So
those calculations are particularly
important this year when it's such a
tight year and we're we're talking about
where that tax rate is going to fall. So
those are kind of the baseline
assumptions that we're working with when
we start talking about tax rate
scenarios. Again, this is just that
information.
Um,
all right. Any questions about just
basic tax rate information before we
move to the general fund? So at the 97%
of the statutory
budgeting that way like we can't get
there yet because we haven't gotten the
full picture from
the tax assessor yet for protest.
There's protest and maybe some other
stuff.
>> So in the we can because the rate
» So in the we can because the rate
calculation says we have to go based on
what we have right now. So we just have
to keep that protest value out.
>> Okay.
» Okay.
So, it's POS if that protest value comes
in after we set the rate, are those
still funds that are collected by the
city?
>> Yes.
» Yes.
>> Okay. And that's the 15,000 that you
» Okay. And that's the 15,000 that you
>> Yes.
» Yes.
>> Okay.
» Okay.
>> I mean, could things get even worse?
» I mean, could things get even worse?
>> Oh, sure.
» Oh, sure.
>> I mean, yeah. Okay.
» I mean, yeah. Okay.
>> Things can always get worse.
» Things can always get worse.
>> Oh, I know that.
» Oh, I know that.
>> I mean, in the immediate, right, the
» I mean, in the immediate, right, the
appraisal district or the assessor could
make an error. There could be a lawsuit
judgement. I mean, as well as
legislative changes. There are any
number of things that could drastically
impact [snorts] once we've set this
budget what our revenue looks like. Um
the relative comfort is we do have a
fund balance that meets government
finance officers association
recommendations of having at least 120
days of operating expenses and reserves.
And then um
fortunately for us, we collect property
tax revenues early in the fiscal year.
So if determined to be an error, you
have a little bit of time to fix it,
make decisions.
>> The 22 33 cent debt that you were
» The 22 33 cent debt that you were
talking about, you said that's in the
INS calculation.
>> It is.
» It is.
[clears throat]
[snorts]
» Just trying to clean up my notes.
» All right. General fund. Um the line
item budget that is in your notebook is
the same as what you saw at your
previous meeting what we provided. The
only difference is the year-to date
numbers have been updated as of
yesterday.
So Jennifer worked really hard to keep
that running and updated for all of us.
Um
>> a printed living document. It it is um
» a printed living document. It it is um
so what was included in there were the
previously discussed 3% cost of living
adjustment for staff. Um
any increases that are required to
maintain operations as they stand today.
Um so there are no requests no I mean
just cost of supplies have gone up
that's in there. um any previously
approved projects are in there, but
there is there's no other additions in
there.
So, right now, where that stands with
the base budget is total revenues of
10,4,98
and total expenditures of 10,2,262
for a budgeted surplus of $2,646.
Um,
» so it is tight right now.
>> Just those things.
» Just those things.
>> $2,000.
» That's pretty squeaky.
>> So, a couple of things. There are some
» So, a couple of things. There are some
larger projects that are reflected in
the general fund.
Shahan Park is in there. We'll talk a
little bit in more detail when we get to
the capital planning portion, but we do
anticipate what's shown in there is the
anticipation of the full amount of the
grant that we're eligible for. If for
some reason we do not receive that grant
or that grant is less, staff will need
to come back to you and we will need to
look at other options for funding that
grant. Um the Rosebrook drainage project
um is supported by a little bit of a
transfer um from capital funds.
Again, grant revenue you'll see is
significantly higher than prior years
because of the assumption of that
$750,000 grant.
And then some transfers in from capital
funds to help fund some of those
projects.
Um, our primary recurring revenue
sources remain property tax, sales tax,
solid waste, utility franchise fees,
school resource officer funding from the
school.
We do remain the pilot at $225,000
in the base budget. I know over the past
several years, we've worked to reduce
the amount of that pilot. Staff is
recommending keeping it at $225,000 this
year. And then some interesting.
So, understanding the situation that we
were facing with potential revenue
shortfalls
or an extremely tight budget, staff went
back and reviewed the proposed budget
line by line over the last two weeks.
Um, we have identified $43,856
worth of reductions that staff feel like
we can make without impacting operations
or service levels. Um, so these are
things like producing professional
memberships, um cleaning up some errors
that may have been in there. We really,
when I say we went through every line,
we went through every line item.
>> What's an example of a professional
» What's an example of a professional
membership?
>> So, we're a member, the city is a member
» So, we're a member, the city is a member
of the National League of Cities, which
is like TML at the national level.
>> Um our interaction with them, we've only
» Um our interaction with them, we've only
been a member of them for about two
years, but our interaction with them and
the value, we just felt like in a tight
year wasn't there.
So reducing some of those.
There are some other things cutting back
on office supplies. Um I've got my list
here with that
any software products that we felt like
we could make do with either other
programs.
Um delaying something. So, we had $3,000
to digitize some maps um of developments
and neighborhoods. And so, we felt like
we could delay that or hold off on that
um in a tight budget year before moving
forward with that. Um so, those things
that staff felt like we could either
defer and delay until such time as we
felt it was important to get it in
there.
>> Can I ask you a quick philosophic
» Can I ask you a quick philosophic
question? So you keep saying uh in a
tight budget here and so is the mindset
that we're just trying to get through
this year or is the mindset that this is
the new normal and that we need to start
trying to make adjustments for a
long-term shift.
>> It's the new normal and it's something
» It's the new normal and it's something
we're going to face from now on.
>> So like delaying things is it's either
» So like delaying things is it's either
now or later you're going to end up
having to reabsorb that. So digitizing
maps though that we've had
>> for five or 10 years would be nice. It's
» for five or 10 years would be nice. It's
not mission critical for most of our
citizens. That impact is not going to be
felt.
>> And what do we feel the overall
» And what do we feel the overall
shortfall is? That's where I'm trying to
get to. So
>> just one
» just one
>> um as we move through this staff is
» um as we move through this staff is
coming with a recommendation to fund an
additional investigator, an additional
firefighter, and the replacement of our
police officer tasers. Um that net
impact is about $200,000
if we implement these savings that staff
is recommending.
>> And if we don't implement these savings,
» And if we don't implement these savings,
>> if we don't, it's closer to I think 300
» if we don't, it's closer to I think 300
300,000.
And and this is with the advent of uh
neighborhood expansion growth even with
all that.
>> So that that's one of the
» So that that's one of the
>> some cities are stagnant.
» some cities are stagnant.
>> Well, the hurdle is we have population
» Well, the hurdle is we have population
growth.
>> Yeah.
» Yeah.
>> And no revenue growth
» And no revenue growth
>> to provide for additional personnel.
Yeah,
>> but it is.
» but it is.
>> So, I guess where I'm at is, you know,
» So, I guess where I'm at is, you know,
I'm not interested in going backwards
with all the progress we've made. So,
I'd like to understand as we get more
into this what we need to do to not go
backwards and hold what we got while
still preparing for the next couple
years at the same time.
>> Same.
» Same.
>> And if it's a new normal, find a way to
» And if it's a new normal, find a way to
keep going forward, too. So,
>> if digitizing maps is necessary to help
» if digitizing maps is necessary to help
make and zoning and building and
anything, you know, along those lines
possible and current, you know, kind of
modern.
Uh, yeah, I could see that as something
that we need. So, we have 50 how many
full-time employees? I think we saw in
here
>> 55 full time.
» 55 full time.
>> There was 55.75 or something. There was
» There was 55.75 or something. There was
a
>> we had some part [laughter] time
» we had some part [laughter] time
part-time employees and fire parttime in
city center. I got eight
>> and and all this is contingent. There's
» and and all this is contingent. There's
not
>> it's not based on workload.
» it's not based on workload.
>> It has nothing to do with any personnel
» It has nothing to do with any personnel
reductions.
>> So there's there are no personnel
» So there's there are no personnel
reductions recommended at this time.
If you wanted to keep the same tax rate
that we have today,
>> my opinion is the only way we could get
» my opinion is the only way we could get
there would be to either we would have
to cut staff
>> or you would have to cut a significant
» or you would have to cut a significant
I mean I have a list here that totals
about $300,000
that um would cut everything from
national night out Christmas on Maine um
any work that we do with any other
organizations.
>> Those aren't even options.
» Those aren't even options.
>> Yeah.
» Yeah.
>> Okay.
» Okay.
>> But [laughter] what I was getting to,
» But [laughter] what I was getting to,
>> but but in all fairness,
» but but in all fairness,
>> I mean, if anybody disagrees, I mean,
» I mean, if anybody disagrees, I mean,
>> we can talk about the cuts or what we
» we can talk about the cuts or what we
could do, but I'd rather focus on what
we need to do to stay home.
>> And that's the direction that we need um
» And that's the direction that we need um
as a staff. So we had we had kind of
looked at all options. You know, if you
want to cut services to maintain tax
rate, what does that look like?
>> If you want to maintain just what we
» If you want to maintain just what we
have today, I would argue that not
funding a police investigator and
firefighter would would deteriorate
services as we continue to grow.
>> Yeah, we're already we're already
» Yeah, we're already we're already
understaffed on the police side
according to FBI.
>> Those are things that have to happen to
» Those are things that have to happen to
>> Okay.
» Okay.
>> Yeah. Same. So that as I was saying the
» Yeah. Same. So that as I was saying the
the things that we're cutting like
digitizing things those seem like tools
and resources that would help leverage
the tight staff that we have like only
54 employees if access to those things
being digitized or any software tools
out there to help them perform more
efficiently. That's I mean that's still
better than hiring another person
full-time with benefits to you know help
them help take the load off the people
that are there. And I think that's a
strategy economic advantage,
>> you know, and cutting out TML or
» you know, and cutting out TML or
different types, you know, I just that
didn't make any sense to me. I mean,
we're we're a growing [clears throat]
progressive city and we got to figure
out
>> we're a very healthy.
» we're a very healthy.
>> We got to figure out how to we got to
» We got to figure out how to we got to
figure out how to fund it.
>> Yeah.
[clears throat]
>> Well, that sounds like pretty
» Well, that sounds like pretty
our sales tax is maxed out in it.
>> Yes.
» Yes.
>> Yeah.
» Yeah.
>> Okay. So, mute deal. Okay.
» Okay. So, mute deal. Okay.
>> Yeah. We are at the statutory limit on
» Yeah. We are at the statutory limit on
sales tax
>> and the state hadn't taken that away
» and the state hadn't taken that away
from us yet. [laughter]
>> We still grow in sales tax
» We still grow in sales tax
>> to projected final tax rate. So with the
» to projected final tax rate. So with the
300
K M and then the the 28 to 33 C IMS
which I guess was the the actual
summary of the calculation
» up here. It's not in there.
So this is a rate calculation [snorts]
looking at several different scenarios,
but I do have one in here
>> high that we can kind of take a look at
» high that we can kind of take a look at
and see
>> public safety rate
» public safety rate
>> that was the rate with the cut staff
» that was the rate with the cut staff
identified that it would take to fund
those public safety invest firefighter
and tasers. So that is not that takes
into account the staff reductions that
we were recommending. If we add those
back in that's another $75,000
roughly that we would need to generate.
>> So that would be closer to $278,000
» So that would be closer to $278,000
which is what we need to generate.
>> So to be clear, there's no real decision
» So to be clear, there's no real decision
council has to make regarding INS. It's
basically just based on our legal
obligations to debt service.
>> Yeah. I mean indirectly because your
» Yeah. I mean indirectly because your
overall tax rate has to include making
up for that gap in INS.
>> Understood.
» Understood.
>> Understood.
» Understood.
>> I mean, could we could we maybe be
» I mean, could we could we maybe be
better off than maybe what we think
with even anticipating
additional growth next year
or is this pretty much it's pretty much
that's the way it's the way it is. You
mean estimating like
>> yeah additional neighborhood growth,
» yeah additional neighborhood growth,
property expansion.
>> So typically your additional property
» So typically your additional property
growth does not keep up with the growing
needs that we have particularly because
we are so far behind on staffing right
now. I don't want to say behind. We're
so lean on staffing currently. um that
even in a
really great year where we may have I
think the highest since I've been here
was I don't know 38 million in new
construction but even then you know 38
million in new construction
let's say at a M rate of 447045
you know that 40 million in a new
construction. So that's probably
I don't know how many homes that would
be
>> four. [laughter]
» four. [laughter]
>> It would be an issue.
» It would be an issue.
>> That only generates $170,000. I can't
» That only generates $170,000. I can't
even put an officer on the street,000.
>> Yeah.
» Yeah.
>> Between $150.
» Between $150.
>> Oh, just because of fully
» Oh, just because of fully
>> equipment benefits. I mean, just all the
» equipment benefits. I mean, just all the
things. So what I was talking to one of
our developers here who sold 30 houses
the year before last and this last year
he sold five.
>> So
» So
>> so that's that's where the market was
» so that's that's where the market was
last year.
>> The [clears throat] total
» The [clears throat] total
>> the big one with everything included the
» the big one with everything included the
300
» this tells me that EDC
>> EDC
» EDC
>> um
» um
>> and that's the lower of the two. So no
» and that's the lower of the two. So no
petition.
>> This tells me that okay
» This tells me that okay
this tells me that EDC has a
[clears throat]
extra even bigger responsibility.
>> I mean it is
» I mean it is
pertinent. It's very important.
>> Yeah. Those are I mean the things that
» Yeah. Those are I mean the things that
EDC does today is 10 years out probably.
You're not going to you're not going to
crank it up today and [clears throat]
get revenue off. Give me an example of
where that's different. It's not that
way in Tyler. It's not that way in Long
View. It's not that way in Kilgore.
>> The land they bought, the land that the
» The land they bought, the land that the
Amazon was built on
>> was purchased 25 years ago.
» was purchased 25 years ago.
>> Okay.
» Okay.
Still important.
>> Absolutely.
» Absolutely.
>> And I think they're throwing all the gas
» And I think they're throwing all the gas
on it.
>> But those are things that you plant and
» But those are things that you plant and
they it takes a while before they they
come forward. I know they're seeking out
every opportunity that comes their way
and finding some that weren't discovered
otherwise.
So, this custom scenario is probably the
one that's closest um to if we did not
make the staff recommended cuts and
provided those additional public safety
positions. Um,
which would still be below both the
dimminimus and the voter approval rate.
Um, so the average homestead in White
House is valued at about $272,000.
Um so if you were to adopt that rate as
compared to
let's do we need to do at least a
increase the only rate because that is
what is required would be about $87 per
household per year
>> per year to go to the 79
And that's that's well below the voter
approval rate. Is that
» number of the two?
>> Yeah, it was was lower two this year.
» Yeah, it was was lower two this year.
>> There.
» There.
>> So that's not even using everything we
» So that's not even using everything we
banked up over the last
>> that's
» that's
a little sidebar.
>> Our staff is fantastic.
» [clears throat and cough]
» Um, I will say so staff had a whole list
of other [laughter]
identified projects too for
consideration. I've we've only included
those top three here. Um,
we can take a look at those other items.
>> What's the realistic timing on Shahan
» What's the realistic timing on Shahan
Park? Um, we were supposed to find out
about the grant.
>> So, uh, grant is application is
» So, uh, grant is application is
submitted. We should hear if we get it
right after the first of the year,
sometime in January. Um, they really
won't start awarding any money until the
springtime, probably Mayish, Juneish.
So, ideally, that would be a good
construction start time be early summer
next year. What fun?
>> We won't be we won't be spending that
» We won't be we won't be spending that
>> part be spending that 1.4 for
» part be spending that 1.4 for
much of it in this next fiscal year for
us,
>> right? It would be
» right? It would be
>> next year.
» next year.
>> It would be Yeah, a bulk of it would be
» It would be Yeah, a bulk of it would be
probably
>> So, is any are any of those funds
» So, is any are any of those funds
potentially a surplus for us this year?
>> Well, they're the next I don't want to
» Well, they're the next I don't want to
cut the part.
>> I think I think part of the question if
» I think I think part of the question if
if we don't get it, would we start
earlier?
>> Right.
» Right.
start January or February or something,
but
>> but it's our same budget. It's it's the
» but it's our same budget. It's it's the
same fiscal year if it's starting in
January of next year,
>> right? Okay.
» right? Okay.
>> So, yeah, that'll go through October of
» So, yeah, that'll go through October of
next year.
>> Yeah.
But yeah, that's a good that's a good
question.
>> And this is a good chart right here. I
» And this is a good chart right here. I
like it.
>> Um, so this is a list of potential
» Um, so this is a list of potential
projects. So the way staff approaches
our budget every year is we go through
and do our base budget. What do we need
to maintain what we have today? And then
what would be operational improvements
[snorts]
and then we went through and ranked
every project against every other
project and spent about half a day
pulling this list together. Um a lot of
cities call these wish lists. I don't
think there's anything on here that's a
[snorts] wish and not a need at some
point.
But our needs are always greater than um
>> how many tasers is $60,000 worth?
» how many tasers is $60,000 worth?
>> That fun
» That fun
20 and it's for five years. So it's 16
for five years.
>> Oh, it's 16 per year for
» Oh, it's 16 per year for
>> we do 16 per year for five years.
They're not being repaired since
January.
of this year and
it just so happened that we were going
with the five year point as well.
>> And the difference between a good taser
» And the difference between a good taser
and a bad taser is a lethal stopping
mechanism and a non-lethal stopping
mechanism. We want them to be
non-lethal.
>> Less lethal.
» Less lethal.
>> Yes. Less lethal.
» Yes. Less lethal.
>> All four. [clears throat]
» All four. [clears throat]
>> They're they're all functional. Um, but
» They're they're all functional. Um, but
some of the
uh digital readouts on them have the
LEDs have gone away and a couple of the
laser pointers have gone away and we've
taken those and put it into
positions
investigated whether or not it's likely
to be used but they're we've got five
that I would put on the street right
now. And the grant funding opportunities
that are there for some of the police
equipment is not there for tasers
because they're considered lethal
weapons at least through Edco's
mechanism.
>> There's
» There's
not down jump on no there there's some
legislation to try to get that corrected
but by the way they fire is through an
explosive and so they consider it to be
like
>> they're trying to get that correct.
» they're trying to get that correct.
Um, and mayor and council, I know you
all know this, but I'd be remiss if I
didn't say it. When staff is looking at
this and we got the certified rolls and
started looking at cuts, this this team
went through and when I saw you, you
know, the chief is like, we could make
do with this many tasers, you know, and
reducing that and just trying to find a
way to make that work. Um, so I really
appreciate their efforts in this and um,
every single person came to the table
willing to say we can take up slack
here, we can do without here. Um, so we
appreciate you all supporting that,
understanding that um, and and really
giving us the direction to keep moving
moving forward.
number
uh 11
fire truck or excuse me
>> what is that like a brush truck
» what is that like a brush truck
>> essentially yes
» essentially yes
>> I mean that'll help us a lot would it
» I mean that'll help us a lot would it
>> save that pumper from having started
» save that pumper from having started
maybe
>> the
» the
it would be a definite
» corner
>> with our growth
» with our growth
>> and we're going closer to the edge of
» and we're going closer to the edge of
town opportunity.
>> See at the bottom right it's one point
» See at the bottom right it's one point
or one million
» um so anything goes right we can say
jump in
>> yeah that's none of these are in the
» yeah that's none of these are in the
budget right? No.
>> Right. Yeah. As long as it's budget
» Right. Yeah. As long as it's budget
related.
>> And you went
» And you went
>> three now.
» three now.
>> Top three.
» So the the new city hall and all that is
not
>> is not.
» is not.
>> So that's separate. Those are capital
» So that's separate. Those are capital
funds, not operating funds. Okay. Um so
we do have in there for the design of
city hall and fire station.
>> Uh library funding.
» Uh library funding.
I I stuck it on this list at the bottom
um because we hadn't talked about that
when staff did this ranking. So, it's on
there as a consideration. But um
>> but we're currently giving them what
» but we're currently giving them what
48,000
>> 49,000.
» 49,000.
>> And in total to all organizations, we
» And in total to all organizations, we
give 74. So, they make up
>> two3.
» two3.
>> Are we going through all these funds or
» Are we going through all these funds or
we just kind of like picking stuff up?
>> That's up to you. I think we got to go
» That's up to you. I think we got to go
with what the recommendation is on the
priority list as far as
>> I think the top three.
» I think the top three.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
» Yeah. Yeah.
>> Yeah.
» Yeah.
>> What about increasing?
» What about increasing?
Let's take the wreck.
Um, you know, if you have major repairs
at the wreck, the city will kick in
money to help pay for
major repair, right? Like a
>> it's over HVAC system or something like
» it's over HVAC system or something like
that.
>> Yeah. We're the landlords basically. I
» Yeah. We're the landlords basically. I
>> just wonder if we need to raise that up
» just wonder if we need to raise that up
a little bit more. I mean, do we have
any do we know what do we know anything
about their books?
>> I do not.
» I do not.
>> Yeah. Are we entitled to
» Yeah. Are we entitled to
>> um I can request it?
» um I can request it?
>> I just wondered, you know, Miss Leslie.
» I just wondered, you know, Miss Leslie.
Uh and and guys, don't I love the wreck.
I love the wreck. I love the library. I
love all this stuff. Uh but like keep
white house beautiful, we give $4,000
with eight $18,000 500 balance in your
books.
>> Do we have Do we give to them every
» Do we have Do we give to them every
year?
>> Oh, we do, but it's $3,000 or something.
» Oh, we do, but it's $3,000 or something.
>> Can we go through nine or nine and 10
» Can we go through nine or nine and 10
briefly?
So the street condition assessment is
does that set us up to understand our
future uh maintenance cost?
>> It would um we had a company TJ had a
» It would um we had a company TJ had a
company come come in and do a demo and I
can show you what some of that reporting
looks like. And while she's pulling that
up, so when I first started on council,
you you'll remember that we had we had
to take out a loan because we had so
many streets that needed repair because
we didn't identify cracks which caused
drainage under it and you wind up having
to dig them up and resurface them.
>> That one
» That one
>> being proactive.
» being proactive.
>> Just what's on there concerns me the way
» Just what's on there concerns me the way
that it's worded.
>> So
» So
>> you talk about sil coat maybe preventive
» you talk about sil coat maybe preventive
maintenance.
>> Exactly. when things are cracked, if
» Exactly. when things are cracked, if
water is getting under the surface and
creating potholes.
>> And then I for me the license plate
» And then I for me the license plate
readers like that's another one that's
particularly
>> I don't know but
» I don't know but
around schools particularly like I think
that that's kind of a
there are maps you can look at in places
you don't want them to go. So
[clears throat]
>> um and the cost of this is actually less
» um and the cost of this is actually less
than is shown um on that sheet because
they came in quite a bit cheaper than
your first correct
>> than the 60,000.
» than the 60,000.
>> Yes sir.
» Yes sir.
>> Even Tercon the other company that we
» Even Tercon the other company that we
did that's not them. They came in
cheaper as well because they both have
the automated vehicles
>> that do it in brand was going to be
» that do it in brand was going to be
actually by
>> like just the ballpark. What does that
» like just the ballpark. What does that
number go to?
>> Uh believe quoted us for
» Uh believe quoted us for
16,000 I believe
>> plus a weight list orders of magnitude
» plus a weight list orders of magnitude
>> and on this company they're doing
» and on this company they're doing
believe for the what we did it'll be
$270
a mile
and
doing the math it's going to be probably
close to about 16 as well.
>> Wow.
» Wow.
>> And they are have already done a trial
» And they are have already done a trial
so we know what to expect out of this
company. I don't speak for council, but
that's one I would highly recommend
moving out priority.
>> So, we just say hypothetical situation,
» So, we just say hypothetical situation,
we were to move the rate to the 79
number, how much we got to work do we
have to work with on the wish list?
>> Um, if you're talking about this one,
» Um, if you're talking about this one,
it would only be if you wanted to
implement those first
>> taser detective. Those first three that
» taser detective. Those first three that
would take you up to about 270
in expenses
about 30,000
» and if we take it that high this year
what does that do to us next year?
>> It's hard to know um because the
» It's hard to know um because the
legislature will be in session. Um
>> I would say chances are our property tax
» I would say chances are our property tax
roles will be
about where they are now or lower even
though we will have growth
>> um because they're not done chopping
» um because they're not done chopping
away. And I don't know if those will go
into effect in our next budget cycle. It
depends on when they come into effect
like the stuff that we're experiencing
this year.
>> Right. House 9 was
» Right. House 9 was
>> it was 2025.
» it was 2025.
>> It was 2025. But we had other
» It was 2025. But we had other
legislation that went in
that was in the 2025 legislative session
that went in prior to this year. So the
increase in homestead exemptions for
schools, some of those went in last
year.
>> So if we don't lose property tax on the
» So if we don't lose property tax on the
ROS this next year, it will be the in
this budget year, the one we're deciding
now will be the one after that at least.
>> And how how conservative are we being in
» And how how conservative are we being in
our overall estimates on growing in the
budget?
>> That's a good question. So I followed
» That's a good question. So I followed
our trends right which said our
statutory collection is about 90% of
what actual collections are and
budgeting at about 97%
>> okay
» okay
>> of actual
» of actual
>> we were only wrong we were only
» we were only wrong we were only
overestimated one year that I saw
history
>> uh using using that rate
» uh using using that rate
>> and maybe there's another 1% we could do
» and maybe there's another 1% we could do
like maybe
>> um
» um
I I don't know
>> so what we could
» so what we could
Typically by January, February financial
reports, end of February financial
reports, we have a really good
indication of how actual is comparing to
budget on property tax revenue because
the January 31st deadline. So what we
could do is come back to you then and
say, "Okay, here's what we budgeted.
Here's what we actually collected." And
if it's significantly different, you may
have an opportunity to uh
>> use fund balance at that point. Yeah.
» use fund balance at that point. Yeah.
brought some water in.
» I mean, I looked at the street called
Hanks the other day. Man, that Hanks is
wow. It is It's kind of showing age.
>> Uh business park drive is probably our
» Uh business park drive is probably our
worst.
>> Is it in town?
» Is it in town?
>> Yeah, we had those prioritized. I think
» Yeah, we had those prioritized. I think
we did an assessment at some point.
>> We did last year just um staff did it.
» We did last year just um staff did it.
Um but this that TJ was looking at.
Let's see if I can get the password
right. picking top three in the street.
>> If not, I know in the email it the has
» If not, I know in the email it the has
the presentation which actually has our
street.
>> It won't be as detailed, but
» It won't be as detailed, but
>> it
pretty
much
do the street assessment and the
readers.
I think I mean tools like that because
we have limited staff even on the
streets when it comes to police to be
proactive and things I think it's a
>> absolutely it's a great tool.
» absolutely it's a great tool.
>> What is all that? What's the green?
» What is all that? What's the green?
>> What are all those tags on?
» What are all those tags on?
>> It says alligator
» okay.
>> Yeah. [clears throat] That's the type of
» Yeah. [clears throat] That's the type of
stuff that winds up to seepage and
erosion and you got to seal that.
>> You wonder if we Well, we don't want to
» You wonder if we Well, we don't want to
have taken action earlier.
>> I think
» I think getting ahead of it this year,
if legislation changes next year, we
have to
>> streets are improvements on a further
» streets are improvements on a further
decreased budget. And
>> streets are one of those things that
» streets are one of those things that
after you let them go for a while,
they're they're five times or 10 times
more expensive to repair to replace than
they are to repair.
I wish I wish we could put that
>> street [laughter]
out there. You should have seen it in
2004.
>> Yeah.
» Yeah.
>> Golly,
» Golly,
>> memory lane. Memory lane's getting
» memory lane. Memory lane's getting
pretty tough, too. So,
>> and that's asphalt. So, if there's a way
» and that's asphalt. So, if there's a way
to start using concrete if that if the
>> I mean, the price is closed now. It used
» I mean, the price is closed now. It used
to be a way it used to be way different.
>> Yeah.
» Yeah.
>> But you can see here. So, that these are
» But you can see here. So, that these are
the streets that they did. Um the scores
and just the level of data and detail is
far beyond anything with photos.
>> Those are just the top five the worst
» Those are just the top five the worst
ratings right there.
>> Yeah.
» Yeah.
>> They also did uh because they wanted us
» They also did uh because they wanted us
to do ones that were in decent shape. So
we did uh part of Forestdale and a few
little areas that were in better shape
so we can kind of see.
>> Do we have a prioritization
» Do we have a prioritization
like that for the staff? you read my
brain.
>> So, if we adopt a few cuts and then we
» So, if we adopt a few cuts and then we
had a couple wish list items, is that a
possibility for this discussion?
>> Um, I didn't we didn't prioritize those
» Um, I didn't we didn't prioritize those
cuts when we were going through it. We
were just cutting. Um, so we could we
could prioritize them.
>> Does anybody council object to that?
» Does anybody council object to that?
>> Yeah, I heard a couple of things in
» Yeah, I heard a couple of things in
there that are that are obvious. You
know, if we're part of a membership that
we don't engage with, stuff like that.
But if there's anything that is a step
backwards or prevents us from moving
forward when engaging with our citizens,
I think I think we should consider
keeping them or anything that takes the
load off of our our staff for doing
their jobs.
>> I think that's the responsible thing is
» I think that's the responsible thing is
look for cuts, look for opportunities.
[clears throat]
» I also like that it had the
recommendation on the fix for these
roadways, too.
Yeah, my first year I think our roads
budget was a pickup truck with some
asphalt in the back and a shovel.
>> Uh that's pretty much [laughter]
» Uh that's pretty much [laughter]
all it still is on an annual basis. Um
it
» is that something you really need to do
annually? So that needs to be just put
into budget.
>> I I don't know. I mean I'm
» I I don't know. I mean I'm
>> once every five years. Well, you need to
» once every five years. Well, you need to
Oh, the assessment or the
>> assessment.
» assessment.
>> The assessment I would say probably
» The assessment I would say probably
every five years depending on how much
progress you're making.
>> I think it's rare that they
» I think it's rare that they
>> but
» but
252,000 of that is the Roseville project
alone.
So, um, when you look at actual
roadway repairs,
>> I believe the street drainage is 8,000
» I believe the street drainage is 8,000
if I'm not.
>> Well, you've got 6,000 in contract
» Well, you've got 6,000 in contract
labor.
» So, that's enough to buy a few cans of
Flex Seal in here. You're
>> exactly right.
» 14,000 in this city. We're very
fortunate. $14,000
streets
>> concrete last 30 years.
» So,
I don't know if other people are in
agreement with the wish list items. I
think this one's kind of run to the
ground,
but uh maybe the other one is the the
license plate cameras and then flip over
and look to maybe offset those two
additional items. I mean, if you agree,
>> I don't disagree without going backwards
» I don't disagree without going backwards
as far as
>> to the extent possible. I agree.
» to the extent possible. I agree.
>> Yeah. If they've if the department has
» Yeah. If they've if the department has
identified their deepest cuts, then I'm
not sure where that would come from,
but I agree to adding those out. Can you
can you pull back up the wish list?
[clears throat]
» 38 tabs.
And just for the record, how much do we
have in our rainy day for in reserves?
>> So, we're at about I want to say 160
» So, we're at about I want to say 160
days of general fund balance.
» So, you do have some potential to spend.
So, if if we were to not get the Shenan
Park grant, there are some things you
could do out of fund balance for that.
You really want to make sure those are
for onetime expenditures.
>> Yeah.
» Yeah.
>> So [clears throat] we're almost twice as
» So [clears throat] we're almost twice as
much as the recommended.
>> 120 days would be the recommended.
» Yeah.
» Um
» and where are the two that you're
wanting to replace?
>> We replace two. They're in service on
» We replace two. They're in service on
two of the apparatus, but they're
they're all fire trucks.
>> Yes, they're on the fire trucks. They're
» Yes, they're on the fire trucks. They're
they're they're reaching their their
matur.
» Is there a way to know when they're not
going to work when you use them? Well,
well, I mean, based on battery life, but
when you're on, you know, the batteries
last anywhere from 24 to 36 months, and
when you have replaced them,
>> um, three [snorts] and four times at the
» um, three [snorts] and four times at the
cost of an AED,
uh, and then the recommended life cycle
is about 10 years for
[snorts]
cheap on the license plate cameras.
any concern with moving forward with
that and any legislative or regulatory
changes right now?
>> Those are super hot topics right now.
» Those are super hot topics right now.
It uh it doesn't matter what if you're
conservative or liberal, it is all over
the place.
The the one thing Well, I'll say two
things. First of all, um, since getting
that quote, the price has come down
significantly.
>> Oh, okay. That's a sign.
» Oh, okay. That's a sign.
>> Um,
» Um,
there under the contract, it's there's a
immediate whatever legal term you want
to put in, you can get out of the
contract immediately.
>> Okay.
» Okay.
>> There's a no fee fine for getting out of
» There's a no fee fine for getting out of
the contract. That's one of the main
things.
>> And the cost, it's just an annual
» And the cost, it's just an annual
operating cost. There's no capital cost.
>> No, I think the first year is a little
» No, I think the first year is a little
bit more because of the equipment, but
um
last when I last went over all of this,
they covered the cost of any damage to
them. It's not something that we would
have to pay for. There is that's not an
immediate thing um because there's
textile rules and last I heard it's
taking six to nine months to get
approval.
>> So even with that
» So even with that
don't hold me on it. Uh talking with
chiefs we're seeing that price is about
a third of what it was. But even with
that it would be something
you know 10 months Now potentially when
that actually gets started
I'm sure they would based on our
>> and you have it pretty far down on the
» and you have it pretty far down on the
priority list. Yeah to the far right
just what the actual number
>> the value in it
» the value in it
>> is very high
» change
>> I think it was like you just don't need
» I think it was like you just don't need
it very often
>> you don't necessarily need it all the
» you don't necessarily need it all the
time
» it's critical
to the wild truck
>> what if we phase them instead [snorts]
» what if we phase them instead [snorts]
>> of eight do you know do four this year
» of eight do you know do four this year
next Sure. I mean that that's not a
problem. Um we we have of course our
main
we have the main two main roads and you
need uh two in every direction
basically to capture all the traffic.
But for us our main thing is we want to
know who's coming out because that's
what we're working is the crimes the
stolen people.
>> Yeah. When they leave the city
» Yeah. When they leave the city
>> when they're leaving we're more
» when they're leaving we're more
concerned with that especially that the
of the sound person. That's [snorts]
that's our biggest concern. You can't
put a number on
>> or an Amber Alert like they got, you
» or an Amber Alert like they got, you
know, license plate.
>> Would you rather have the truck or
» Would you rather have the truck or
additional firefight?
>> Additional fire.
» Additional fire.
>> And looking at the cost of the cameras,
» And looking at the cost of the cameras,
it's we're halfway to another patrol
officer with that, too.
>> That's right.
» That's right.
>> I mean, the cameras are a onetime thing.
» I mean, the cameras are a onetime thing.
Probably not. I'm sure
>> there is.
» there is.
>> Oh, per year. Okay.
» Oh, per year. Okay.
>> Yeah.
» Yeah.
>> So, with the cameras
» So, with the cameras
>> start third of the cost.
» start third of the cost.
>> So,
» So,
>> Oh, now it is. Right. Yeah, now it is.
» Oh, now it is. Right. Yeah, now it is.
Yeah.
>> What do you think that is now, Chief?
» What do you think that is now, Chief?
>> Again, what I heard was uh they're about
» Again, what I heard was uh they're about
3,000 a piece now.
>> And I was getting quoted by eight.
» And I was getting quoted by eight.
>> The I will say just just for your
» The I will say just just for your
information since y'all are discussing
what how we want to do the money.
If uh
if we add
two more officers in one investigator,
that allows us to have three people
every patrol shift as our schedule.
>> That's a big help in it.
» That's a big help in it.
>> That's what it that's what it is right
» That's what it that's what it is right
now. Without it, that means we'll have
three shifts with three and one with
two. That gets us to three per shift.
>> That's if everybody's healthy.
» That's if everybody's healthy.
which
>> you are aware of that those situations
» you are aware of that those situations
right now when when one's out
it becomes one and they're outcomes
over time
>> I think we need to land on how much we
» I think we need to land on how much we
have to spend
>> maybe
» maybe
>> go back to my cut
» go back to my cut
>> did you want
» did you want
>> you know if we're in agreement that
» you know if we're in agreement that
we're going to have to move on the taxes
in some form or fashion
and I think Sounds like we are. We just
got to figure out what that number is
and how much we have to work with before
we can
realistically talk about
>> Yeah. I'd like to start with basically
» Yeah. I'd like to start with basically
budget what we need and then that will
give us an idea of where the taxes need
to move to.
>> Right.
» Right.
>> So I mean that's that might be exactly
» So I mean that's that might be exactly
what you said.
>> Yeah.
» Yeah.
>> Yeah. But only two officers
» Yeah. But only two officers
would um
not give you any wiggle room but put you
exactly where you are when you need to
be.
>> Having three per shift is
» Having three per shift is
where we need to be.
>> Yeah.
» Yeah.
>> Um and I, you know, at the rate that
» Um and I, you know, at the rate that
we're growing, I think we'd be good for
quite a while with that.
>> But with two, there's just a lot that
» But with two, there's just a lot that
comes with that.
sick vacation,
one call to the jail, you know, they're
gone for two hours
>> for drop off. Yeah.
» for drop off. Yeah.
>> Uh there's just a lot that goes into
» Uh there's just a lot that goes into
that where we we have a we don't have to
talk about it, but there's a lot of
times there's just one officer in the
whole city.
>> So, should we consider three?
» So, should we consider three?
>> What what's up there is the investigator
» What what's up there is the investigator
and two officers will make it work. that
that provides street per shift
>> just like when the red lights are are
» just like when the red lights are are
out of electricity.
>> The complaints the other day where the
» The complaints the other day where the
police
>> they don't understand that
» they don't understand that
>> there's three intersections out.
» there's three intersections out.
>> Yeah.
» Yeah.
>> You got one of these covered feel like
» You got one of these covered feel like
we'll have all kinds of calls coming in
the
>> from the tax assessor.
» from the tax assessor.
>> What we have now is all we're going to
» What we have now is all we're going to
get
>> before we make a decision.
» before we make a decision.
>> Well,
» Well,
We'll we'll get the final number before
if we push out the date that we decide
to make that.
>> Yeah, that's
» Yeah, that's
>> we're not going to get any more
» we're not going to get any more
additional information.
>> So, if we didn't make a decision on the
» So, if we didn't make a decision on the
10th, we pushed it out a week.
>> What I think what that would allow is
» What I think what that would allow is
for staff to go back and prioritize
those cuts.
>> Yeah. let us tell you where we are and
» Yeah. let us tell you where we are and
then we can really kind of set that line
of this rate would get top three, this
rate would get four, this would get you
to five, you know, on this priority
list.
>> We can do that now that we have some
» We can do that now that we have some
direction from you all. I did not want
to come out with saying, you know, here
are all these things without knowing
where the council wanted to go.
>> I think that's that should be the plan.
» I think that's that should be the plan.
Okay.
>> So, with the cuts, can we go ahead and
» So, with the cuts, can we go ahead and
say now no to certain cuts?
>> Sure. We can do whatever.
» Sure. We can do whatever.
>> Um, real quick on this page, is it
» Um, real quick on this page, is it
beneficial to to do something that's not
really a formal vote, but just run
through quickly in the top 10 and have
council with a yes or a no just on
whether or not they make the the
budgetary.
>> Yeah. To see which one we're unanimous
» Yeah. To see which one we're unanimous
on at least, right?
>> Yeah. Exactly. So 133 I think we're
» Yeah. Exactly. So 133 I think we're
>> Yeah. And the cuts.
» Yeah. And the cuts.
>> Yeah.
» Yeah.
can't go.
>> I think one through three.
» I think one through three.
I don't want to speak for Were we good?
One through three.
>> Yeah,
» Yeah,
>> I think so.
» I think so.
>> Okay.
» Okay.
>> With the road assessment.
» With the road assessment.
>> Yeah.
» Yeah.
>> And the road street condition.
» And the road street condition.
>> We want to move that.
» We want to move that.
>> Does everybody agree with that?
» Does everybody agree with that?
>> Yeah.
» Yeah.
>> I'm asking you guys are the ones that
» I'm asking you guys are the ones that
need it.
There's a huge price tag difference.
There's a huge cost difference between
what I would consider a priority and
staff work. We worked collectively to
come up with this
>> prioritization.
» prioritization.
[clears throat]
>> Um and and from my my standpoint on the
» Um and and from my my standpoint on the
fire department staffing issue is the
most critical.
>> Okay.
» Okay.
>> And it's going to continue to get more
» And it's going to continue to get more
critical as time goes on because we we
have grown the fire department but maybe
Now, not at a rate the city's growing.
>> You got you got three on the pump now,
» You got you got three on the pump now,
don't you?
>> Yes,
» Yes,
>> I understand and agree with that. But
» I understand and agree with that. But
from a pure budgetary standpoint, this
is kind of like a a risk assessment. So,
for future years, if there's any major
infrastructure projects that are going
to have to get budgeted in, this allows
us to get ahead of next year's the
following year's rate in my opinion. So,
that's the main reason assessment
[snorts] priorization
>> on the road.
» on the road.
>> Yeah.
» Yeah.
>> Well, on that note, we've got one that's
» Well, on that note, we've got one that's
been assessed as needs repair.
>> So, if we're justifying funding and
» So, if we're justifying funding and
assessment, we should probably repair
the one that was assessed as
>> we can go through the
» we can go through the
number eight, memory lane. So,
» police investigator
>> memory lane got
» memory lane got
>> So, four did we uh Were we unanimous on
» So, four did we uh Were we unanimous on
four?
>> Yes. And it was the investigator and the
» Yes. And it was the investigator and the
patrol officer that get you where you
needed to be. Or did you need number six
as well?
>> I recalculated because I do all these
» I recalculated because I do all these
numbers over in my head here. Um,
if we have what's equivalent to 22
staff, which is an investigator and an
officer that puts three per shift plus
five SRO.
>> Okay. So number number six
» Okay. So number number six
>> number six. Really?
» number six. Really?
>> No.
» No.
>> No, it's a no. That's a no. So, can you
» No, it's a no. That's a no. So, can you
please note in there, Leslie, that uh
what about the additional
No offense, Chief, but we got to think
we need to share the love between the
fire department and police.
» So, if we got the additional
firefighter teeth, where are we getting?
Well, when we look at national when we
look at national standards, which is
what we strive for at as a city based on
national standards, our population, we
should have seven firefighters on duty.
>> And we currently have three on duty at
» And we currently have three on duty at
all times. Four
>> with some part-time personnel.
» with some part-time personnel.
>> We have been at three firefighters on
» We have been at three firefighters on
duty since 2013. Now, we've made giant
strides in growing the fire department
in terms of transitioning part-time help
into to full-time capacity. And that's
part of been the evolution and the
infancy of the of the fire department.
Call volumes of greet increase uh
exponentially. Uh in the last six years,
our call volume has has doubled from in
the low 600s to the low 1000s the last
couple years close to,200 calls to
service. So as we
the biggest critical in the gap as far
as a safety is that a lot of times when
we have three people on duty and we have
a medical call that requires two people
to go on
>> then that leaves one person behind at
» then that leaves one person behind at
the station to run the first next house
fire the next cardiac arrest the next
any kind of call. So for firefighter
safety first of all I think it's
paramount that we always work in pairs
and typically that's how the fire
service works. Um, and so from a safety
standpoint, then you look at
operationally how much more effective
four
is on the fire ground or in rescue
operations than three, which in turn
circles back around to firefighter
safety as well. So, um, I think the
long-term goal is to get four per shift,
and I think we can operate like that
well with our partners that we're going
to have automatic and mutual aid with.
Um, but it's the point of getting to the
to that, right?
>> And some of that wouldn't be necessarily
» And some of that wouldn't be necessarily
the full cost that you see here because
we currently supplement with part-time
employees. So, we are paying for
coverage for some of those hours. And
so, that's what this note really means
here is that transitioning that
position, that coverage from part-time
to full-time. Um, we still right now
don't have four per shift on all shifts
even with supplementing with part time.
So there's a little bit of nuance in
trying
» Yeah, that seems like maybe if we could
focus in on what that actual number is
and I'd imagine it's the same case with
the additional patrol officer. There's
[clears throat] some overtime coming
from the other patrol officers when
somebody's out sick or something like
that, right?
>> Yeah. It's not I wouldn't say super
» Yeah. It's not I wouldn't say super
significant.
>> I mean, one of the advantages to to do
» I mean, one of the advantages to to do
some offsets, the idea is to get four
four firefighters on duty at all time
for all the reasons we talked about
the
>> 17 or 18.
» 17 or 18.
>> The option to that is when we do have
» The option to that is when we do have
one of our full-time personnel vacation
for six, we would keep our minimum
staffing to three.
>> So, we would work down to three. thus
» So, we would work down to three. thus
saving those overtimes for replacement.
>> Chief, what about insurance rates?
» Chief, what about insurance rates?
>> Does that matter? Um, you know, class
» Does that matter? Um, you know, class
one fire department.
>> Our current ISO is a four.
» Our current ISO is a four.
>> Uh, we're working with ISO currently
» Uh, we're working with ISO currently
citywide for that that rating. I do
anticipate an improvement, but ISO no
longer really has any significant uh
bearing on insurance premiums locally.
It's done by the agents and the industry
because the technology and data
collection is much more precise than
ISO.
ISO does show that a city's doing all
the right things uh to make it a safer
and better place.
on five and six. I'm a know.
[snorts]
>> So I don't know about the rest of
» So I don't know about the rest of
council intact. Just
» Yeah. From what I hearing, uh the the
ones we put a yes on for police and
fire, we get them to where they need to
be.
Well, it would get
>> Yeah. Police for sure. Firefighter.
» Yeah. Police for sure. Firefighter.
>> Oh, we're not doing five.
» Oh, we're not doing five.
>> Oh, you said for five and six. No,
» Oh, you said for five and six. No,
>> I based on what I think I was hearing.
» I based on what I think I was hearing.
>> He was saying
» He was saying
>> there's already one uh three. So, if we
» there's already one uh three. So, if we
add the firefighter and number three,
right, that gets us to three full-time
employees
>> per two out of three shifts.
» per two out of three shifts.
>> Two out of three shifts. Not three out
» Two out of three shifts. Not three out
of three shifts.
>> Okay. So, it's worse than a
» Okay. So, it's worse than a
>> Okay, then
» Okay, then
on five.
>> I'm glad.
» I'm glad.
>> I'm sorry.
» I'm sorry.
>> Yeah, that's