[0:00] audio is at least
[0:05] ready to start.
[0:06] >> All right.
[0:09] » All right.
[0:09] Now, call to order this meeting of the
[0:12] White House City Council for today,
[0:13] August 17th, 2026. It is 8:30
[0:17] a.m.
[0:19] So, I guess it is time for roll call.
[0:26] » Mayor Wley
[0:27] >> here. Council member Lou
[0:29] » here. Council member Lou
[0:29] >> here.
[0:29] » here.
[0:29] >> Council member Burns
[0:30] » Council member Burns
[0:30] >> here.
[0:31] » here.
[0:31] >> Council member Brisco
[0:32] » Council member Brisco
[0:32] >> here.
[0:32] » here.
[0:32] >> Council member Chambers
[0:33] » Council member Chambers
[0:33] >> here.
[0:34] » here.
[0:34] >> Council member Lazar.
[0:36] » Council member Lazar.
[0:36] >> Thank [snorts] you ma'am. All right. The
[0:38] » Thank [snorts] you ma'am. All right. The
[0:38] only action item on this agenda is item
[0:40] number B which is discuss consideration
[0:43] and provide direction on the fiscal year
[0:46] 2020 627 budget and tax rate. This be
[0:51] all we're doing today. We have four
[0:52] hours scheduled for this section. So
[0:56] feel free to dive in, ask any questions
[0:59] necessary. Um, and we kind of have a
[1:02] hard problem to solve this time.
[1:06] >> We have some state legislative
[1:10] » We have some state legislative
[1:10] changes that came in that removed items
[1:13] from our tax role. So although we did,
[1:18] you'll see that although we did grow as
[1:20] a community over the last year, we also
[1:23] had some things kind of taken taken off
[1:26] the plate mostly on the business side
[1:28] about business business property tax
[1:30] reductions.
[1:31] But you'll see and I want to thank
[1:34] >> Leslie and the staff, Jennifer,
[1:35] » Leslie and the staff, Jennifer,
[1:36] everybody for
[1:37] >> diving in and taking several rounds at
[1:39] » diving in and taking several rounds at
[1:39] this. This this document in front of
[1:41] y'all is a lot of work that they started
[1:44] a long time ago and have been keeping an
[1:46] eye on everything coming in from the tax
[1:48] assessor's office, everything coming in
[1:50] from the legislation,
[1:53] everything that's been happening with
[1:54] our city and it's a snapshot at the
[1:57] time. I think that was yesterday of what
[1:59] we're working with at the moment. I
[2:01] think there's still some final numbers
[2:02] from the tax assessor's office that
[2:06] we're waiting on. We have some what are
[2:09] they called? Disputes or
[2:10] >> uh properties under protest.
[2:12] » uh properties under protest.
[2:12] >> Properties under protest. That window is
[2:14] » Properties under protest. That window is
[2:14] extended. Like we always have properties
[2:15] under protest. That's part of the cycle,
[2:17] but there was an extension given to that
[2:20] date of when they had to get those in
[2:22] and it's overlapping our budgeting
[2:24] cycle. So, we don't have a clearest
[2:26] picture as we normally do during this
[2:28] time. But I think what the staff is
[2:30] looking for in this meeting is
[2:33] uh given what we know and given what it
[2:36] to be what direction the council wants
[2:39] to take regarding the budget. So with
[2:42] that, I'll hand it over to uh Oh, sorry,
[2:46] Zach.
[2:47] >> Yeah, just want based on what we know
[2:48] » Yeah, just want based on what we know
[2:48] now. I mean, what's our shortfall to
[2:50] what we were planning to do originally?
[2:53] >> We're going to walk through some of that
[2:55] » We're going to walk through some of that
[2:55] because there are some decisions to be
[2:57] made. staff has identified some
[2:59] potential savings that we can implement.
[3:01] And so we'll kind of walk through where
[3:04] we were, where we are now, and then
[3:06] where you all would like to head.
[3:09] >> But it is quite a different journey than
[3:11] » But it is quite a different journey than
[3:11] it was last year.
[3:12] >> It is.
[3:13] » It is.
[3:13] >> Okay.
[3:15] » Okay.
[3:15] It is a significantly different
[3:17] conversation than we've had in years
[3:18] past.
[3:21] Um, so just to kind of reiterate what
[3:23] Mayor Wsley had said, what we're going
[3:24] to do today is just walk through the
[3:26] financial environment affecting the
[3:28] budget and why it is so different this
[3:30] year. Um, we need to evaluate our
[3:33] general fund, service levels, area for
[3:35] reduction and particularly public safety
[3:37] priorities for the upcoming fiscal year.
[3:40] Um, discuss your options with the
[3:43] property tax rate and what the
[3:44] associated taxpayer impact is. And then
[3:48] um we need direction from you all on
[3:50] those reductions, additions, and the
[3:52] rate um to potentially propose a rate on
[3:55] August 10th. I do think you have some
[3:58] flexibility if you're not quite ready to
[4:00] propose a tax rate on August 10th to
[4:02] possibly push that out to the 24th, but
[4:05] we'll talk about that as we go through
[4:06] today to see where all you think um if
[4:09] you think you're ready to make a
[4:10] decision on that or if you would like a
[4:12] little bit more time or more
[4:13] information.
[4:18] So, here's kind of look at our timing
[4:20] today. Um, we will take a break about
[4:23] 10:45
[4:25] and then plan to head all the way out
[4:27] until noon. So, we've got a lot to
[4:29] cover. Um, we're going to spend a lot
[4:31] more time today than we typically have
[4:34] on the tax rate and how that's
[4:36] calculated and what factors go into that
[4:38] because of such a significant difference
[4:40] this year than what we've seen in
[4:42] previous years.
[4:44] >> [clears throat]
[4:46] » Um, so I know Mayor Wanley has kind of
[4:49] looked at, he and I have discussed, he
[4:51] kind of has four different dials that
[4:52] he's looking at for how we come to this
[4:54] conclusion. Um, for us, for as a staff
[4:57] though, the way we've taken it is, you
[5:00] know, what level of service should the
[5:02] city provide, what reductions are we are
[5:06] acceptable, and then what rate supports
[5:08] that direction.
[5:10] Um, and all of those things are tied
[5:12] together.
[5:15] So, let's talk about the
[5:17] financial environment.
[5:20] Um, what we're seeing now is
[5:22] significantly more volatility in your
[5:25] property tax values than what we've seen
[5:28] in the past. So,
[5:31] every year we get several different
[5:32] numbers from the tax appraisal district.
[5:35] So the one that we kind of the one that
[5:39] we calculate the tax rate on is the
[5:41] certified appraisal rule which we
[5:43] receive on July 25th.
[5:45] Um that we have the tax rate calculation
[5:48] form in your notebooks today. So we
[5:51] received that on July 25th. What changed
[5:54] this year was our um appraisals grew but
[6:00] our net taxable value did not. And so
[6:02] we'll talk a little bit more about that.
[6:05] Um, as I mentioned to you all
[6:06] previously,
[6:08] there was a new exemption that went into
[6:10] effect this year, House Bill 9, which
[6:13] increased business business personal
[6:15] property tax exemptions from 25,000 to
[6:18] 125,000.
[6:20] That resulted in $10 million of value no
[6:22] longer being on the tax roles. Um, so
[6:25] that's a pretty significant difference
[6:26] in the property tax revenue. As the
[6:29] mayor mentioned, we do have protests.
[6:31] So, they have extended the amount of
[6:34] time that people have to protest their
[6:36] property tax values. So, for the first
[6:39] time this year, we have to show about
[6:41] $2.1 million in value currently under
[6:44] protest in our tax rate calculation form
[6:46] that we have not had to do in years
[6:48] prior. So, that also impacts your tax
[6:51] rate and can make the rate higher
[6:53] because you're taking that value out of
[6:55] your calculation.
[6:58] Any questions
[7:00] so far? I know it's a lot of a lot of
[7:03] words, but we're going to keep keep
[7:06] going through it.
[7:07] >> We're going to dive in each one.
[7:09] » We're going to dive in each one.
[7:09] >> We are. [laughter]
[7:10] » We are. [laughter]
[7:10] >> I know you're also very excited.
[7:12] » I know you're also very excited.
[7:12] >> So, the 2.1 that's in protests, how much
[7:15] » So, the 2.1 that's in protests, how much
[7:15] could that move the needle for us either
[7:17] way?
[7:18] >> I have no idea. Um,
[7:22] » I have no idea. Um,
[7:22] there's really
[7:24] no way for me to know. Oh, you're saying
[7:27] maybe what's the what portion of the
[7:29] total does that represent
[7:31] >> as far as the general fund impact?
[7:33] » as far as the general fund impact?
[7:33] >> Yeah.
[7:34] » Yeah.
[7:34] >> So, it would be
[7:44] depending on what M rate you choose. Um,
[7:54] it's not very much.
[8:03] At the current rate, it's only about
[8:05] $15,000 between the general fund and
[8:07] debt service fund, but it does it does
[8:11] impact your rate calculation in a way
[8:13] that it hasn't before. So,
[8:18] » yeah. What's also strange is uh and
[8:20] you'll probably get into this, but we
[8:22] have maintenance and operation and
[8:23] interest in sinking. And interesting is
[8:27] a portion of the property tax that we
[8:29] put towards our obligations, our loans
[8:31] basically. So when the property tax
[8:36] total is reduced,
[8:38] that number needs to come up on the INS
[8:41] side to reach those obligations. That's
[8:43] also a situation we're not normally in.
[8:45] Normally we see that there's more
[8:48] properties under valuation this year
[8:49] than last year. Is there any need to
[8:53] raise the property tax rate and we just
[8:54] say no? And that's the behavior we've
[8:56] had for the last five years. Um but it's
[9:00] a different question this year. We're
[9:02] probably going to have to at least put
[9:04] something on the INS side so that we can
[9:06] meet those debt obligations.
[9:18] um
[9:22] so to the mayor's point and O which is
[9:24] maintenance operations funds our general
[9:26] fund which is where we're going to spend
[9:27] most of our time today because of the
[9:29] change in the financial [clears throat]
[9:30] outlook and then INS pays debt service
[9:33] so a little bit of history on how we
[9:35] calculate debt service because we've
[9:37] issued some cos in the past so what we
[9:40] normally do when we're looking at
[9:41] issuing debt is we have our financial
[9:43] advisor to prepare a 30-year outlook
[9:45] that is based on your assessed taxable
[9:49] values. In the past, that number has
[9:52] been relatively close to your net
[9:54] taxable value. So, the amount that
[9:56] you're actually can count on receiving.
[9:59] This year, that amount is vastly
[10:01] different. There's a big enough
[10:02] difference that it has a significant
[10:04] impact on the debt rate. Um so based on
[10:07] a statutory tax rate calculation
[10:10] the debt rate would need to increase
[10:12] from about 28 cents to
[10:17] spreadsheet
[10:20] 335717.
[10:24] So it's about a 5 cent increase on the
[10:27] debt rate according to the statuto rate
[10:30] calculation sheet and that is what is
[10:32] legally required to meet our legal debt
[10:35] obligations.
[10:37] All right and we'll talk about some
[10:39] other things that factor into that. Um
[10:42] but as we talk about property tax rates,
[10:46] we have the current rate which is the
[10:48] 2025 2026 fiscal year rate which is
[10:53] 289852
[10:54] for the INS and 428003
[10:59] for IMO for a total rate of 717855.
[11:03] We use the state rate calculation form
[11:06] to calculate the non revenue rate, the
[11:08] voter approval rate and the nitimous
[11:10] rate. The no new revenue rate is the
[11:12] approximate rate that generates the same
[11:14] revenue from properties taxed in both
[11:17] years excluding new improvements.
[11:20] So you say, "Hey, we generated $5.3
[11:23] million last year. What rate would we
[11:25] charge for $5.3 million this year?" What
[11:29] it does not do as well is calculating
[11:32] are changes in your statutory debt
[11:34] requirements.
[11:36] So, if you'll notice in your notebook on
[11:37] the rate calculation form, the no new
[11:41] revenue rate
[11:43] is down below the current year even
[11:46] though our um
[11:51] valuations went down.
[11:55] » [clears throat]
[11:58] » So it's going to be on the very last
[12:00] page behind your tax rate analysis will
[12:02] show your know your revenue rate, your
[12:05] vi approval rate and your dividend rate.
[12:13] This sign page the last page in the tax
[12:15] rate analysis section.
[12:22] So you see there the no new revenue rate
[12:24] would change our current rate from
[12:26] 717855
[12:28] to 711646.
[12:32] The voter approval rate is the rate that
[12:35] would generate three and a half% more
[12:37] income more revenue
[12:40] than your current revenue.
[12:43] So that rate goes up almost, let's see,
[12:47] it's up 13 cents over the current rate.
[12:52] Part of that is because of what we call
[12:54] the unused increment rate.
[12:57] So as a council, if you adopt a rate
[12:59] that is below the voter approval rate,
[13:03] the state allocates that as what's
[13:05] called an unused increment rate or gone
[13:07] revenue, okay, that you could have
[13:09] adopted but you did not because we have
[13:12] lean operations. We were committed to
[13:13] maintaining an overall tax rate. We kept
[13:15] costs low.
[13:17] Um, so if you flip back one page, you'll
[13:22] see the unused increment rate worksheet.
[13:27] So lines 64
[13:30] through 68
[13:32] deal with that unused increment.
[13:35] So, what this says is that over the last
[13:39] three years,
[13:41] because of a strong fiscal commitment
[13:42] from the council, you all have foregone
[13:45] revenue of $531,397.
[13:51] » So, year-over-year, that's a, if I
[13:53] remember right, that's a pretty big jump
[13:55] in the voter approval rate.
[13:57] >> Yeah. What what drives the voter
[13:59] » Yeah. What what drives the voter
[13:59] approval rate?
[14:00] >> It's your unused increment.
[14:02] » It's your unused increment.
[14:02] >> Okay.
[14:02] » Okay.
[14:02] >> And three and a half%
[14:05] » And three and a half%
[14:05] grow.
[14:05] >> Okay.
[14:06] » Okay.
[14:06] >> Yeah. It's over the past five or six
[14:07] » Yeah. It's over the past five or six
[14:07] years we've banked that increment,
[14:09] >> right?
[14:10] » right?
[14:10] >> Because
[14:11] » Because
[14:11] uh we didn't need it, so we didn't ask
[14:14] for it. And now because we're at a point
[14:17] where we may need it, it's there if we
[14:19] want to if we want to use it.
[14:25] » So that adds approximate the unused
[14:27] increment rate
[14:29] adds about seven cents to the voter
[14:31] approval rate.
[14:36] Then you have the dimminimous rate. So
[14:38] for cities under 30,000 in population,
[14:41] the state allows for a calculation that
[14:43] would result in an additional $500,000
[14:46] in general fund revenue, general fund
[14:49] and revenue.
[14:52] So typically in the past, our
[14:54] dimminimous rate has been higher than
[14:56] the voter approval rate. They were
[14:57] swapped this year because of that unused
[15:00] increment rate. an exhibitor approval
[15:02] rate higher than the diminous rate. The
[15:05] important thing about each of these
[15:08] three rates, so the no new revenue rate,
[15:11] if you adopt anything over the no new
[15:13] revenue rate is considered to be a tax
[15:15] increase. Even if you were to adopt the
[15:18] same rate that we have today, it's
[15:21] considered by the state and the way the
[15:22] legislation is written as a tax
[15:24] increase.
[15:27] If you adopt the lower of the voter
[15:30] approval rate or the dimminimous rate,
[15:34] it's adopted and there are no further
[15:36] steps.
[15:37] If you
[15:39] in this particular year were to adopt
[15:42] above the dimminimous rate, voters would
[15:44] have the opportunity to petition for an
[15:46] election. If you adopt over the voter
[15:49] approval rate, it's an automatic
[15:51] election
[15:53] >> to the voters. Okay? I just want you to
[15:56] » to the voters. Okay? I just want you to
[15:56] understand the implications and the
[15:57] importance of each of those as we talk
[16:00] through today.
[16:03] Okay. Our certified appraisal roles this
[16:06] year um
[16:09] were interesting to say the least and
[16:11] most of you have been updated on this
[16:13] but I kind of want to I want to cover it
[16:14] again um to kind of let you know what we
[16:17] have found since we last discussed it
[16:23] last year in our certified appraisal
[16:26] rules. Um we did see significant growth.
[16:29] Um it was not anything that we felt like
[16:33] was
[16:35] exponential. It was a little bit
[16:36] unordinary in the amount of growth that
[16:39] we had in business personal property.
[16:42] Where it really showed up is when we got
[16:44] the appraisal rule for this year. Um so
[16:47] last year we had about $40 million in
[16:50] business personal property growth.
[16:54] This year our business personal property
[16:56] growth is down below what we saw in
[16:58] 2023.
[17:00] Uh when I spoke with the chief
[17:02] appraiser,
[17:04] she indicated that this has to do with
[17:06] commercial leases. And so the entire
[17:08] value of an entity's commercial lease
[17:12] was incorrectly allocated to the city of
[17:14] White House when it should have been
[17:15] spread across jurisdictions in Smith
[17:17] County.
[17:20] The good news, if there is any, is that
[17:23] all taxpayers were build appropriately
[17:26] and the amount of revenue that we
[17:28] collected is correct. So, we did not
[17:31] overcolct
[17:32] property tax revenue. And the way that
[17:35] happens, so certified rolls, you know,
[17:39] when I'm looking at preparing the budget
[17:41] and the tax rate, I get really excited
[17:43] because I'm like, okay, certified rolls
[17:44] are here. We're good to go. we have this
[17:46] this number that we can base our next
[17:49] year on. It's not really how that works.
[17:53] So, it's it's what we base our tax rate
[17:54] calculation on and our budget on, but
[17:57] that number continues to move throughout
[17:59] the end of the year. Um, protests get
[18:01] resolved. The um tax assessor collector
[18:05] has to send out bills. There's potential
[18:08] for errors, corrections, all of those
[18:10] things.
[18:12] So the appraisal district and the
[18:14] assessor realized the error between July
[18:17] and October of last year. So the bills
[18:20] that went out in October were corrected.
[18:23] We weren't notified of that error, but
[18:26] um so be it.
[18:29] So then we received preliminary values
[18:32] in April. I noticed our business
[18:35] personal property was down. Then we
[18:36] reached out to the chief appraiser.
[18:38] Didn't ever really get a good answer.
[18:41] Then those House Bill 9 exemptions that
[18:44] I talked about earlier were also not
[18:46] reflected on preliminary values. So the
[18:49] value loss between our preliminary
[18:51] values in April and certified ROS in
[18:54] July was about $53 million, which is
[18:57] significantly more than what we've seen
[18:59] in years past.
[19:02] Um, so when we received certified rolls
[19:05] this July, one thing that we noticed,
[19:08] our certified role is up, which means
[19:11] that's a combination of new
[19:13] construction, growth in property values,
[19:16] but for the first time that I've ever
[19:18] seen, net taxable value is down.
[19:21] that has to do with those exemptions,
[19:23] protests, um various other factors,
[19:28] which really makes this challenging
[19:29] because when you look around and you see
[19:32] millions of dollars in property growth,
[19:36] but your revenues are decre your net
[19:38] taxable value for your revenues are
[19:40] decreasing.
[19:42] Um my concern is that I think we will
[19:45] continue to see this based on what we're
[19:48] hearing out of the legislature. I think
[19:50] there's a very real push um to continue
[19:53] with expanding exemptions, limiting
[19:56] revenue growth for cities um and local
[20:01] governments.
[20:02] >> Yeah. The property taxes collected uh
[20:05] » Yeah. The property taxes collected uh
[20:05] don't go to the state. So they go to the
[20:07] cities, the municipal utility districts,
[20:09] the schools, TJC, volunteer fire
[20:13] departments. So politically, it's really
[20:15] easy for the state to push for
[20:17] legislation that doesn't impact them
[20:19] financially. They can say, "We're
[20:21] reducing your tax rate. We're helping
[20:23] you out, but they're not doing
[20:24] anything." That's a hill that they will
[20:26] stand on because they'll never die on
[20:28] it. That's not that's not affecting
[20:29] their bottom line at all. So, there's no
[20:32] empathy there
[20:34] uh from the state when it comes to
[20:35] pushing this stuff. And there's a lot of
[20:37] momentum. The governor's uh action
[20:40] points are basically all pointed towards
[20:43] that.
[20:44] uh abolishing them without a plan just
[20:47] like they did these business personal
[20:50] property taxes um without a way to say
[20:53] you know who you can argue yes or no
[20:56] whether it's fair that businesses have
[20:57] to pay personal property taxes but it's
[21:00] what budgets are built on and taking
[21:02] that money away from the county the city
[21:04] the school TJC municipal fire or
[21:08] volunteer fire departments without some
[21:10] contingency to help make up at at at
[21:13] least for a few years while we figure
[21:15] out another way to recoup that is what
[21:17] we ran into this year.
[21:20] Sorry, got off a tangent.
[21:22] >> Both other municipalities are running
[21:24] » Both other municipalities are running
[21:24] through the same thing.
[21:26] >> Absolutely.
[21:26] » Absolutely.
[21:26] >> Every school, every
[21:28] » Every school, every
[21:28] >> care about White House, but this is
[21:30] » care about White House, but this is
[21:30] statewide.
[21:32] >> Yeah.
[21:32] » Yeah.
[21:32] >> I mean, it's it's a business personal
[21:35] » I mean, it's it's a business personal
[21:35] property tax
[21:36] >> and there's not a huge business presence
[21:39] » and there's not a huge business presence
[21:39] here in White House. you know, we're
[21:41] kind of what you'd call a bedroom
[21:42] community where
[21:43] >> you just imagine how it hits other
[21:45] » you just imagine how it hits other
[21:45] cities. You know, [snorts] it's going to
[21:46] be even harder for some of them.
[21:48] >> Well, and because of the air at the
[21:50] » Well, and because of the air at the
[21:50] appraisal district's office,
[21:53] it it ended up being about a 40 or $50
[21:57] million impact to us on business
[22:00] personal property value from last year
[22:02] to this year. So, that's significant.
[22:05] You combine that with what we're seeing
[22:07] out of the legislature and that's why
[22:09] that gap between certified appraisal
[22:11] role and net tax value, you can see how
[22:14] that gap has just grown over time
[22:18] to be more and more significant.
[22:21] >> And this legislator is fighting with the
[22:23] » And this legislator is fighting with the
[22:23] appraisal districts on how they do
[22:25] things. And we're in the middle of that,
[22:26] too. So, some of the stuff they pass is
[22:30] a way to reduce property taxes by kind
[22:33] of hitting them with limitations and
[22:35] shots. I don't know how they come up
[22:37] with property tax values. I don't know
[22:39] why my small lot that my house is on
[22:42] went from $20,000 to $60,000 this year.
[22:44] I have no idea how they calculate that
[22:46] stuff. So, I mean, I have some of the
[22:49] same questions for the appraisal
[22:50] districts that our state representatives
[22:51] do, but it's the legislation that is
[22:54] aimed at them since a lot of times
[22:55] bleeds over to us, just like legislation
[22:58] for large cities, you know, to put them
[23:00] under control winds up affecting all
[23:03] cities. But this this personal property
[23:06] tax uh was not was not stepped up, not
[23:10] incremented. It was a big jump from 2500
[23:12] to 125,000. That's that's pretty big. So
[23:15] yeah, I'd imagine you'll see this a lot
[23:18] affect a lot of
[23:19] >> and and as a senior citizen myself, I
[23:21] » and and as a senior citizen myself, I
[23:21] was excited as pumpkin pie about
[23:24] homestead exemption going up. But then
[23:26] again, there's always a give and a take.
[23:30] So,
[23:41] so again, this is just kind of talking
[23:42] about, you know, this budget workshop is
[23:45] much much later than we've typically
[23:47] done in years prior. And a lot of that
[23:49] is because forecasting what property tax
[23:52] revenues are going to look like has
[23:53] become increasingly challenging with
[23:55] more exemptions, longer protest period,
[23:58] legislative challenges. Um, and so all
[24:01] of that really leads to to much less
[24:04] certainty than what we've had in the
[24:05] past. Um, typically I could run the tax
[24:08] rate calculation off of our preliminary
[24:10] values and have a relative degree of
[24:12] comfort where we were going to end up on
[24:14] property tax revenues. this year it was
[24:17] anyone's guess.
[24:19] So, and that's what I'm hearing from a
[24:20] lot of other city managers as well. So,
[24:28] so one of the things in looking through
[24:30] this is okay, that's the situation that
[24:33] we're in. Those are the rules that we
[24:34] have to play by. What can we do? Let's
[24:38] really take a good look at what revenues
[24:40] we're budgeting, what revenues we're
[24:42] receiving, and how those perform against
[24:45] each other. So, this chart looks at
[24:47] three different things. It looks at the
[24:49] statutory levy, budgeted revenue, and
[24:52] actual collections. So, the statutory
[24:55] levy is if you took the tax rate that's
[24:57] on the tax rate calculation sheet
[25:01] and calculated your revenue. So you took
[25:03] your net taxable value divided by 100
[25:06] times your property tax rate. What
[25:08] should you be collecting? Okay. So
[25:10] that's the column in blue.
[25:13] The gray is what we budgeted for
[25:16] revenue. So you can see that since 2022
[25:19] we have typically budgeted more revenue
[25:22] than the statutory levy. It's because
[25:24] some of those protests come back online.
[25:27] um you know that number is again
[25:29] constantly changing and so we end up
[25:31] collecting more than what the statutory
[25:34] levy would show. So our budgeted revenue
[25:39] um is in the gray and then the red is
[25:42] what we actually collected.
[25:44] We typically budget less revenue than
[25:46] what we're going to collect by design.
[25:48] We want to make a conservative approach
[25:49] so that if errors are found between July
[25:51] and October or even after that we make
[25:54] sure that we have enough funds to uh
[25:57] continue operations but you don't want
[25:59] it to be so much right you want to
[26:01] collect what you need but not beyond
[26:03] that. Um so the difference between
[26:06] actual collections and the statutory
[26:08] level is usually about 90%.
[26:13] >> Yeah. 80 88 89 91. Yeah.
[26:16] » Yeah. 80 88 89 91. Yeah.
[26:16] >> Averages out to be about 90%. And then
[26:19] » Averages out to be about 90%. And then
[26:19] budgeted revenue, we've tried to keep it
[26:22] about 97% of actual collections. So
[26:27] those calculations are particularly
[26:29] important this year when it's such a
[26:31] tight year and we're we're talking about
[26:34] where that tax rate is going to fall. So
[26:36] those are kind of the baseline
[26:38] assumptions that we're working with when
[26:39] we start talking about tax rate
[26:41] scenarios. Again, this is just that
[26:45] information.
[26:46] Um,
[26:52] all right. Any questions about just
[26:55] basic tax rate information before we
[26:59] move to the general fund? So at the 97%
[27:03] of the statutory
[27:06] budgeting that way like we can't get
[27:08] there yet because we haven't gotten the
[27:10] full picture from
[27:12] the tax assessor yet for protest.
[27:15] There's protest and maybe some other
[27:16] stuff.
[27:17] >> So in the we can because the rate
[27:19] » So in the we can because the rate
[27:19] calculation says we have to go based on
[27:21] what we have right now. So we just have
[27:24] to keep that protest value out.
[27:26] >> Okay.
[27:28] » Okay.
[27:28] So, it's POS if that protest value comes
[27:30] in after we set the rate, are those
[27:33] still funds that are collected by the
[27:34] city?
[27:35] >> Yes.
[27:35] » Yes.
[27:35] >> Okay. And that's the 15,000 that you
[27:38] » Okay. And that's the 15,000 that you
[27:38] >> Yes.
[27:39] » Yes.
[27:39] >> Okay.
[27:40] » Okay.
[27:40] >> I mean, could things get even worse?
[27:43] » I mean, could things get even worse?
[27:43] >> Oh, sure.
[27:44] » Oh, sure.
[27:44] >> I mean, yeah. Okay.
[27:48] » I mean, yeah. Okay.
[27:48] >> Things can always get worse.
[27:49] » Things can always get worse.
[27:49] >> Oh, I know that.
[27:51] » Oh, I know that.
[27:51] >> I mean, in the immediate, right, the
[27:53] » I mean, in the immediate, right, the
[27:53] appraisal district or the assessor could
[27:55] make an error. There could be a lawsuit
[27:57] judgement. I mean, as well as
[27:58] legislative changes. There are any
[28:00] number of things that could drastically
[28:03] impact [snorts] once we've set this
[28:04] budget what our revenue looks like. Um
[28:08] the relative comfort is we do have a
[28:11] fund balance that meets government
[28:12] finance officers association
[28:14] recommendations of having at least 120
[28:17] days of operating expenses and reserves.
[28:19] And then um
[28:22] fortunately for us, we collect property
[28:24] tax revenues early in the fiscal year.
[28:26] So if determined to be an error, you
[28:29] have a little bit of time to fix it,
[28:31] make decisions.
[28:33] >> The 22 33 cent debt that you were
[28:38] » The 22 33 cent debt that you were
[28:38] talking about, you said that's in the
[28:40] INS calculation.
[28:41] >> It is.
[28:43] » It is.
[28:43] [clears throat]
[28:43] [snorts]
[28:47] » Just trying to clean up my notes.
[28:51] » All right. General fund. Um the line
[28:55] item budget that is in your notebook is
[28:58] the same as what you saw at your
[29:00] previous meeting what we provided. The
[29:01] only difference is the year-to date
[29:03] numbers have been updated as of
[29:04] yesterday.
[29:06] So Jennifer worked really hard to keep
[29:08] that running and updated for all of us.
[29:12] Um
[29:13] >> a printed living document. It it is um
[29:17] » a printed living document. It it is um
[29:18] so what was included in there were the
[29:20] previously discussed 3% cost of living
[29:22] adjustment for staff. Um
[29:26] any increases that are required to
[29:28] maintain operations as they stand today.
[29:31] Um so there are no requests no I mean
[29:34] just cost of supplies have gone up
[29:37] that's in there. um any previously
[29:39] approved projects are in there, but
[29:41] there is there's no other additions in
[29:44] there.
[29:46] So, right now, where that stands with
[29:49] the base budget is total revenues of
[29:52] 10,4,98
[29:56] and total expenditures of 10,2,262
[30:01] for a budgeted surplus of $2,646.
[30:06] Um,
[30:10] » so it is tight right now.
[30:12] >> Just those things.
[30:13] » Just those things.
[30:13] >> $2,000.
[30:17] » That's pretty squeaky.
[30:19] >> So, a couple of things. There are some
[30:21] » So, a couple of things. There are some
[30:21] larger projects that are reflected in
[30:23] the general fund.
[30:26] Shahan Park is in there. We'll talk a
[30:28] little bit in more detail when we get to
[30:29] the capital planning portion, but we do
[30:31] anticipate what's shown in there is the
[30:34] anticipation of the full amount of the
[30:36] grant that we're eligible for. If for
[30:39] some reason we do not receive that grant
[30:41] or that grant is less, staff will need
[30:44] to come back to you and we will need to
[30:46] look at other options for funding that
[30:48] grant. Um the Rosebrook drainage project
[30:53] um is supported by a little bit of a
[30:55] transfer um from capital funds.
[31:00] Again, grant revenue you'll see is
[31:01] significantly higher than prior years
[31:03] because of the assumption of that
[31:05] $750,000 grant.
[31:08] And then some transfers in from capital
[31:10] funds to help fund some of those
[31:11] projects.
[31:13] Um, our primary recurring revenue
[31:16] sources remain property tax, sales tax,
[31:18] solid waste, utility franchise fees,
[31:22] school resource officer funding from the
[31:24] school.
[31:26] We do remain the pilot at $225,000
[31:29] in the base budget. I know over the past
[31:31] several years, we've worked to reduce
[31:33] the amount of that pilot. Staff is
[31:35] recommending keeping it at $225,000 this
[31:38] year. And then some interesting.
[31:42] So, understanding the situation that we
[31:45] were facing with potential revenue
[31:48] shortfalls
[31:49] or an extremely tight budget, staff went
[31:52] back and reviewed the proposed budget
[31:54] line by line over the last two weeks.
[31:58] Um, we have identified $43,856
[32:03] worth of reductions that staff feel like
[32:05] we can make without impacting operations
[32:08] or service levels. Um, so these are
[32:10] things like producing professional
[32:12] memberships, um cleaning up some errors
[32:15] that may have been in there. We really,
[32:18] when I say we went through every line,
[32:19] we went through every line item.
[32:22] >> What's an example of a professional
[32:24] » What's an example of a professional
[32:24] membership?
[32:25] >> So, we're a member, the city is a member
[32:27] » So, we're a member, the city is a member
[32:27] of the National League of Cities, which
[32:29] is like TML at the national level.
[32:32] >> Um our interaction with them, we've only
[32:34] » Um our interaction with them, we've only
[32:34] been a member of them for about two
[32:36] years, but our interaction with them and
[32:38] the value, we just felt like in a tight
[32:39] year wasn't there.
[32:41] So reducing some of those.
[32:45] There are some other things cutting back
[32:46] on office supplies. Um I've got my list
[32:50] here with that
[32:57] any software products that we felt like
[32:59] we could make do with either other
[33:01] programs.
[33:03] Um delaying something. So, we had $3,000
[33:07] to digitize some maps um of developments
[33:10] and neighborhoods. And so, we felt like
[33:14] we could delay that or hold off on that
[33:16] um in a tight budget year before moving
[33:19] forward with that. Um so, those things
[33:21] that staff felt like we could either
[33:22] defer and delay until such time as we
[33:26] felt it was important to get it in
[33:27] there.
[33:28] >> Can I ask you a quick philosophic
[33:30] » Can I ask you a quick philosophic
[33:30] question? So you keep saying uh in a
[33:34] tight budget here and so is the mindset
[33:37] that we're just trying to get through
[33:39] this year or is the mindset that this is
[33:41] the new normal and that we need to start
[33:44] trying to make adjustments for a
[33:46] long-term shift.
[33:47] >> It's the new normal and it's something
[33:50] » It's the new normal and it's something
[33:50] we're going to face from now on.
[33:51] >> So like delaying things is it's either
[33:54] » So like delaying things is it's either
[33:54] now or later you're going to end up
[33:56] having to reabsorb that. So digitizing
[33:59] maps though that we've had
[34:02] >> for five or 10 years would be nice. It's
[34:05] » for five or 10 years would be nice. It's
[34:05] not mission critical for most of our
[34:07] citizens. That impact is not going to be
[34:10] felt.
[34:11] >> And what do we feel the overall
[34:12] » And what do we feel the overall
[34:12] shortfall is? That's where I'm trying to
[34:14] get to. So
[34:16] >> just one
[34:17] » just one
[34:17] >> um as we move through this staff is
[34:21] » um as we move through this staff is
[34:21] coming with a recommendation to fund an
[34:22] additional investigator, an additional
[34:24] firefighter, and the replacement of our
[34:26] police officer tasers. Um that net
[34:29] impact is about $200,000
[34:32] if we implement these savings that staff
[34:35] is recommending.
[34:36] >> And if we don't implement these savings,
[34:38] » And if we don't implement these savings,
[34:38] >> if we don't, it's closer to I think 300
[34:43] » if we don't, it's closer to I think 300
[34:43] 300,000.
[34:45] And and this is with the advent of uh
[34:48] neighborhood expansion growth even with
[34:52] all that.
[34:53] >> So that that's one of the
[34:55] » So that that's one of the
[34:55] >> some cities are stagnant.
[34:57] » some cities are stagnant.
[34:57] >> Well, the hurdle is we have population
[34:59] » Well, the hurdle is we have population
[34:59] growth.
[35:00] >> Yeah.
[35:00] » Yeah.
[35:00] >> And no revenue growth
[35:02] » And no revenue growth
[35:02] >> to provide for additional personnel.
[35:09] Yeah,
[35:09] >> but it is.
[35:11] » but it is.
[35:11] >> So, I guess where I'm at is, you know,
[35:13] » So, I guess where I'm at is, you know,
[35:13] I'm not interested in going backwards
[35:15] with all the progress we've made. So,
[35:17] I'd like to understand as we get more
[35:19] into this what we need to do to not go
[35:21] backwards and hold what we got while
[35:24] still preparing for the next couple
[35:25] years at the same time.
[35:27] >> Same.
[35:27] » Same.
[35:27] >> And if it's a new normal, find a way to
[35:29] » And if it's a new normal, find a way to
[35:29] keep going forward, too. So,
[35:31] >> if digitizing maps is necessary to help
[35:35] » if digitizing maps is necessary to help
[35:35] make and zoning and building and
[35:39] anything, you know, along those lines
[35:41] possible and current, you know, kind of
[35:44] modern.
[35:45] Uh, yeah, I could see that as something
[35:49] that we need. So, we have 50 how many
[35:51] full-time employees? I think we saw in
[35:53] here
[35:53] >> 55 full time.
[35:55] » 55 full time.
[35:55] >> There was 55.75 or something. There was
[35:57] » There was 55.75 or something. There was
[35:57] a
[35:57] >> we had some part [laughter] time
[35:59] » we had some part [laughter] time
[35:59] part-time employees and fire parttime in
[36:02] city center. I got eight
[36:04] >> and and all this is contingent. There's
[36:07] » and and all this is contingent. There's
[36:07] not
[36:08] >> it's not based on workload.
[36:09] » it's not based on workload.
[36:09] >> It has nothing to do with any personnel
[36:12] » It has nothing to do with any personnel
[36:12] reductions.
[36:14] >> So there's there are no personnel
[36:16] » So there's there are no personnel
[36:16] reductions recommended at this time.
[36:19] If you wanted to keep the same tax rate
[36:22] that we have today,
[36:24] >> my opinion is the only way we could get
[36:26] » my opinion is the only way we could get
[36:26] there would be to either we would have
[36:28] to cut staff
[36:30] >> or you would have to cut a significant
[36:34] » or you would have to cut a significant
[36:34] I mean I have a list here that totals
[36:37] about $300,000
[36:39] that um would cut everything from
[36:44] national night out Christmas on Maine um
[36:48] any work that we do with any other
[36:50] organizations.
[36:51] >> Those aren't even options.
[36:54] » Those aren't even options.
[36:54] >> Yeah.
[36:54] » Yeah.
[36:54] >> Okay.
[36:55] » Okay.
[36:55] >> But [laughter] what I was getting to,
[36:56] » But [laughter] what I was getting to,
[36:56] >> but but in all fairness,
[36:58] » but but in all fairness,
[36:58] >> I mean, if anybody disagrees, I mean,
[37:02] » I mean, if anybody disagrees, I mean,
[37:02] >> we can talk about the cuts or what we
[37:04] » we can talk about the cuts or what we
[37:04] could do, but I'd rather focus on what
[37:06] we need to do to stay home.
[37:10] >> And that's the direction that we need um
[37:12] » And that's the direction that we need um
[37:12] as a staff. So we had we had kind of
[37:14] looked at all options. You know, if you
[37:16] want to cut services to maintain tax
[37:19] rate, what does that look like?
[37:21] >> If you want to maintain just what we
[37:23] » If you want to maintain just what we
[37:23] have today, I would argue that not
[37:26] funding a police investigator and
[37:28] firefighter would would deteriorate
[37:31] services as we continue to grow.
[37:33] >> Yeah, we're already we're already
[37:34] » Yeah, we're already we're already
[37:34] understaffed on the police side
[37:35] according to FBI.
[37:37] >> Those are things that have to happen to
[37:39] » Those are things that have to happen to
[37:39] >> Okay.
[37:40] » Okay.
[37:40] >> Yeah. Same. So that as I was saying the
[37:43] » Yeah. Same. So that as I was saying the
[37:43] the things that we're cutting like
[37:44] digitizing things those seem like tools
[37:47] and resources that would help leverage
[37:49] the tight staff that we have like only
[37:52] 54 employees if access to those things
[37:54] being digitized or any software tools
[37:57] out there to help them perform more
[37:58] efficiently. That's I mean that's still
[38:01] better than hiring another person
[38:03] full-time with benefits to you know help
[38:06] them help take the load off the people
[38:08] that are there. And I think that's a
[38:09] strategy economic advantage,
[38:11] >> you know, and cutting out TML or
[38:14] » you know, and cutting out TML or
[38:14] different types, you know, I just that
[38:15] didn't make any sense to me. I mean,
[38:17] we're we're a growing [clears throat]
[38:19] progressive city and we got to figure
[38:20] out
[38:20] >> we're a very healthy.
[38:21] » we're a very healthy.
[38:21] >> We got to figure out how to we got to
[38:23] » We got to figure out how to we got to
[38:23] figure out how to fund it.
[38:24] >> Yeah.
[38:27] [clears throat]
[38:28] >> Well, that sounds like pretty
[38:30] » Well, that sounds like pretty
[38:30] our sales tax is maxed out in it.
[38:33] >> Yes.
[38:34] » Yes.
[38:34] >> Yeah.
[38:35] » Yeah.
[38:35] >> Okay. So, mute deal. Okay.
[38:38] » Okay. So, mute deal. Okay.
[38:38] >> Yeah. We are at the statutory limit on
[38:41] » Yeah. We are at the statutory limit on
[38:41] sales tax
[38:42] >> and the state hadn't taken that away
[38:44] » and the state hadn't taken that away
[38:44] from us yet. [laughter]
[38:46] >> We still grow in sales tax
[38:49] » We still grow in sales tax
[38:49] >> to projected final tax rate. So with the
[38:53] » to projected final tax rate. So with the
[38:53] 300
[38:55] K M and then the the 28 to 33 C IMS
[39:01] which I guess was the the actual
[39:06] summary of the calculation
[39:11] » up here. It's not in there.
[39:17] So this is a rate calculation [snorts]
[39:19] looking at several different scenarios,
[39:22] but I do have one in here
[39:26] >> high that we can kind of take a look at
[39:30] » high that we can kind of take a look at
[39:30] and see
[39:30] >> public safety rate
[39:32] » public safety rate
[39:32] >> that was the rate with the cut staff
[39:34] » that was the rate with the cut staff
[39:34] identified that it would take to fund
[39:36] those public safety invest firefighter
[39:40] and tasers. So that is not that takes
[39:42] into account the staff reductions that
[39:45] we were recommending. If we add those
[39:47] back in that's another $75,000
[39:50] roughly that we would need to generate.
[39:53] >> So that would be closer to $278,000
[39:57] » So that would be closer to $278,000
[39:57] which is what we need to generate.
[39:58] >> So to be clear, there's no real decision
[40:01] » So to be clear, there's no real decision
[40:01] council has to make regarding INS. It's
[40:05] basically just based on our legal
[40:07] obligations to debt service.
[40:09] >> Yeah. I mean indirectly because your
[40:11] » Yeah. I mean indirectly because your
[40:11] overall tax rate has to include making
[40:14] up for that gap in INS.
[40:17] >> Understood.
[40:19] » Understood.
[40:19] >> Understood.
[40:19] » Understood.
[40:19] >> I mean, could we could we maybe be
[40:22] » I mean, could we could we maybe be
[40:22] better off than maybe what we think
[40:27] with even anticipating
[40:30] additional growth next year
[40:33] or is this pretty much it's pretty much
[40:35] that's the way it's the way it is. You
[40:38] mean estimating like
[40:39] >> yeah additional neighborhood growth,
[40:41] » yeah additional neighborhood growth,
[40:41] property expansion.
[40:44] >> So typically your additional property
[40:45] » So typically your additional property
[40:45] growth does not keep up with the growing
[40:49] needs that we have particularly because
[40:51] we are so far behind on staffing right
[40:55] now. I don't want to say behind. We're
[40:56] so lean on staffing currently. um that
[41:00] even in a
[41:03] really great year where we may have I
[41:05] think the highest since I've been here
[41:06] was I don't know 38 million in new
[41:09] construction but even then you know 38
[41:12] million in new construction
[41:22] let's say at a M rate of 447045
[41:27] you know that 40 million in a new
[41:29] construction. So that's probably
[41:32] I don't know how many homes that would
[41:34] be
[41:35] >> four. [laughter]
[41:38] » four. [laughter]
[41:38] >> It would be an issue.
[41:39] » It would be an issue.
[41:39] >> That only generates $170,000. I can't
[41:42] » That only generates $170,000. I can't
[41:42] even put an officer on the street,000.
[41:45] >> Yeah.
[41:46] » Yeah.
[41:46] >> Between $150.
[41:47] » Between $150.
[41:47] >> Oh, just because of fully
[41:49] » Oh, just because of fully
[41:49] >> equipment benefits. I mean, just all the
[41:52] » equipment benefits. I mean, just all the
[41:52] things. So what I was talking to one of
[41:55] our developers here who sold 30 houses
[41:57] the year before last and this last year
[41:59] he sold five.
[42:01] >> So
[42:01] » So
[42:01] >> so that's that's where the market was
[42:03] » so that's that's where the market was
[42:03] last year.
[42:05] >> The [clears throat] total
[42:07] » The [clears throat] total
[42:07] >> the big one with everything included the
[42:09] » the big one with everything included the
[42:10] 300
[42:13] » this tells me that EDC
[42:16] >> EDC
[42:18] » EDC
[42:18] >> um
[42:20] » um
[42:20] >> and that's the lower of the two. So no
[42:22] » and that's the lower of the two. So no
[42:22] petition.
[42:24] >> This tells me that okay
[42:29] » This tells me that okay
[42:29] this tells me that EDC has a
[42:31] [clears throat]
[42:32] extra even bigger responsibility.
[42:36] >> I mean it is
[42:38] » I mean it is
[42:38] pertinent. It's very important.
[42:41] >> Yeah. Those are I mean the things that
[42:43] » Yeah. Those are I mean the things that
[42:43] EDC does today is 10 years out probably.
[42:45] You're not going to you're not going to
[42:47] crank it up today and [clears throat]
[42:49] get revenue off. Give me an example of
[42:51] where that's different. It's not that
[42:52] way in Tyler. It's not that way in Long
[42:54] View. It's not that way in Kilgore.
[42:56] >> The land they bought, the land that the
[42:57] » The land they bought, the land that the
[42:57] Amazon was built on
[42:59] >> was purchased 25 years ago.
[43:01] » was purchased 25 years ago.
[43:01] >> Okay.
[43:03] » Okay.
[43:03] Still important.
[43:04] >> Absolutely.
[43:05] » Absolutely.
[43:05] >> And I think they're throwing all the gas
[43:07] » And I think they're throwing all the gas
[43:07] on it.
[43:09] >> But those are things that you plant and
[43:10] » But those are things that you plant and
[43:10] they it takes a while before they they
[43:13] come forward. I know they're seeking out
[43:14] every opportunity that comes their way
[43:16] and finding some that weren't discovered
[43:18] otherwise.
[43:21] So, this custom scenario is probably the
[43:23] one that's closest um to if we did not
[43:27] make the staff recommended cuts and
[43:29] provided those additional public safety
[43:31] positions. Um,
[43:36] which would still be below both the
[43:38] dimminimus and the voter approval rate.
[43:41] Um, so the average homestead in White
[43:44] House is valued at about $272,000.
[43:49] Um so if you were to adopt that rate as
[43:53] compared to
[43:55] let's do we need to do at least a
[43:58] increase the only rate because that is
[44:03] what is required would be about $87 per
[44:05] household per year
[44:06] >> per year to go to the 79
[44:18] And that's that's well below the voter
[44:20] approval rate. Is that
[44:24] » number of the two?
[44:26] >> Yeah, it was was lower two this year.
[44:29] » Yeah, it was was lower two this year.
[44:29] >> There.
[44:30] » There.
[44:30] >> So that's not even using everything we
[44:31] » So that's not even using everything we
[44:31] banked up over the last
[44:34] >> that's
[44:35] » that's
[44:35] a little sidebar.
[44:37] >> Our staff is fantastic.
[44:42] » [clears throat and cough]
[44:45] » Um, I will say so staff had a whole list
[44:48] of other [laughter]
[44:50] identified projects too for
[44:51] consideration. I've we've only included
[44:54] those top three here. Um,
[44:58] we can take a look at those other items.
[45:03] >> What's the realistic timing on Shahan
[45:05] » What's the realistic timing on Shahan
[45:05] Park? Um, we were supposed to find out
[45:08] about the grant.
[45:09] >> So, uh, grant is application is
[45:11] » So, uh, grant is application is
[45:11] submitted. We should hear if we get it
[45:14] right after the first of the year,
[45:15] sometime in January. Um, they really
[45:18] won't start awarding any money until the
[45:20] springtime, probably Mayish, Juneish.
[45:23] So, ideally, that would be a good
[45:26] construction start time be early summer
[45:29] next year. What fun?
[45:31] >> We won't be we won't be spending that
[45:34] » We won't be we won't be spending that
[45:34] >> part be spending that 1.4 for
[45:38] » part be spending that 1.4 for
[45:38] much of it in this next fiscal year for
[45:40] us,
[45:42] >> right? It would be
[45:44] » right? It would be
[45:44] >> next year.
[45:45] » next year.
[45:45] >> It would be Yeah, a bulk of it would be
[45:48] » It would be Yeah, a bulk of it would be
[45:48] probably
[45:49] >> So, is any are any of those funds
[45:50] » So, is any are any of those funds
[45:50] potentially a surplus for us this year?
[45:53] >> Well, they're the next I don't want to
[45:55] » Well, they're the next I don't want to
[45:55] cut the part.
[45:56] >> I think I think part of the question if
[45:59] » I think I think part of the question if
[45:59] if we don't get it, would we start
[46:01] earlier?
[46:02] >> Right.
[46:03] » Right.
[46:03] start January or February or something,
[46:04] but
[46:06] >> but it's our same budget. It's it's the
[46:09] » but it's our same budget. It's it's the
[46:09] same fiscal year if it's starting in
[46:11] January of next year,
[46:13] >> right? Okay.
[46:14] » right? Okay.
[46:14] >> So, yeah, that'll go through October of
[46:16] » So, yeah, that'll go through October of
[46:16] next year.
[46:17] >> Yeah.
[46:21] But yeah, that's a good that's a good
[46:23] question.
[46:24] >> And this is a good chart right here. I
[46:25] » And this is a good chart right here. I
[46:26] like it.
[46:26] >> Um, so this is a list of potential
[46:30] » Um, so this is a list of potential
[46:30] projects. So the way staff approaches
[46:33] our budget every year is we go through
[46:34] and do our base budget. What do we need
[46:36] to maintain what we have today? And then
[46:37] what would be operational improvements
[46:40] [snorts]
[46:41] and then we went through and ranked
[46:43] every project against every other
[46:45] project and spent about half a day
[46:49] pulling this list together. Um a lot of
[46:52] cities call these wish lists. I don't
[46:55] think there's anything on here that's a
[46:56] [snorts] wish and not a need at some
[46:58] point.
[47:00] But our needs are always greater than um
[47:03] >> how many tasers is $60,000 worth?
[47:08] » how many tasers is $60,000 worth?
[47:08] >> That fun
[47:10] » That fun
[47:10] 20 and it's for five years. So it's 16
[47:13] for five years.
[47:15] >> Oh, it's 16 per year for
[47:19] » Oh, it's 16 per year for
[47:19] >> we do 16 per year for five years.
[47:25] They're not being repaired since
[47:27] January.
[47:28] of this year and
[47:32] it just so happened that we were going
[47:33] with the five year point as well.
[47:34] >> And the difference between a good taser
[47:36] » And the difference between a good taser
[47:36] and a bad taser is a lethal stopping
[47:38] mechanism and a non-lethal stopping
[47:40] mechanism. We want them to be
[47:41] non-lethal.
[47:43] >> Less lethal.
[47:43] » Less lethal.
[47:43] >> Yes. Less lethal.
[47:46] » Yes. Less lethal.
[47:46] >> All four. [clears throat]
[47:47] » All four. [clears throat]
[47:47] >> They're they're all functional. Um, but
[47:51] » They're they're all functional. Um, but
[47:51] some of the
[47:53] uh digital readouts on them have the
[47:56] LEDs have gone away and a couple of the
[47:59] laser pointers have gone away and we've
[48:01] taken those and put it into
[48:04] positions
[48:06] investigated whether or not it's likely
[48:08] to be used but they're we've got five
[48:11] that I would put on the street right
[48:12] now. And the grant funding opportunities
[48:15] that are there for some of the police
[48:16] equipment is not there for tasers
[48:17] because they're considered lethal
[48:19] weapons at least through Edco's
[48:21] mechanism.
[48:23] >> There's
[48:26] » There's
[48:26] not down jump on no there there's some
[48:28] legislation to try to get that corrected
[48:30] but by the way they fire is through an
[48:33] explosive and so they consider it to be
[48:36] like
[48:38] >> they're trying to get that correct.
[48:41] » they're trying to get that correct.
[48:41] Um, and mayor and council, I know you
[48:43] all know this, but I'd be remiss if I
[48:44] didn't say it. When staff is looking at
[48:46] this and we got the certified rolls and
[48:48] started looking at cuts, this this team
[48:51] went through and when I saw you, you
[48:53] know, the chief is like, we could make
[48:55] do with this many tasers, you know, and
[48:57] reducing that and just trying to find a
[48:59] way to make that work. Um, so I really
[49:02] appreciate their efforts in this and um,
[49:04] every single person came to the table
[49:06] willing to say we can take up slack
[49:09] here, we can do without here. Um, so we
[49:12] appreciate you all supporting that,
[49:14] understanding that um, and and really
[49:17] giving us the direction to keep moving
[49:19] moving forward.
[49:22] number
[49:24] uh 11
[49:26] fire truck or excuse me
[49:31] >> what is that like a brush truck
[49:33] » what is that like a brush truck
[49:33] >> essentially yes
[49:34] » essentially yes
[49:34] >> I mean that'll help us a lot would it
[49:37] » I mean that'll help us a lot would it
[49:37] >> save that pumper from having started
[49:39] » save that pumper from having started
[49:39] maybe
[49:39] >> the
[49:41] » the
[49:41] it would be a definite
[49:47] » corner
[49:48] >> with our growth
[49:49] » with our growth
[49:49] >> and we're going closer to the edge of
[49:51] » and we're going closer to the edge of
[49:51] town opportunity.
[49:53] >> See at the bottom right it's one point
[49:55] » See at the bottom right it's one point
[49:55] or one million
[50:03] » um so anything goes right we can say
[50:06] jump in
[50:08] >> yeah that's none of these are in the
[50:10] » yeah that's none of these are in the
[50:10] budget right? No.
[50:12] >> Right. Yeah. As long as it's budget
[50:13] » Right. Yeah. As long as it's budget
[50:14] related.
[50:14] >> And you went
[50:15] » And you went
[50:15] >> three now.
[50:16] » three now.
[50:16] >> Top three.
[50:20] » So the the new city hall and all that is
[50:24] not
[50:25] >> is not.
[50:26] » is not.
[50:26] >> So that's separate. Those are capital
[50:27] » So that's separate. Those are capital
[50:27] funds, not operating funds. Okay. Um so
[50:30] we do have in there for the design of
[50:34] city hall and fire station.
[50:36] >> Uh library funding.
[50:39] » Uh library funding.
[50:39] I I stuck it on this list at the bottom
[50:42] um because we hadn't talked about that
[50:44] when staff did this ranking. So, it's on
[50:46] there as a consideration. But um
[50:48] >> but we're currently giving them what
[50:50] » but we're currently giving them what
[50:50] 48,000
[50:51] >> 49,000.
[50:52] » 49,000.
[50:52] >> And in total to all organizations, we
[50:55] » And in total to all organizations, we
[50:55] give 74. So, they make up
[50:59] >> two3.
[51:00] » two3.
[51:00] >> Are we going through all these funds or
[51:03] » Are we going through all these funds or
[51:03] we just kind of like picking stuff up?
[51:06] >> That's up to you. I think we got to go
[51:08] » That's up to you. I think we got to go
[51:08] with what the recommendation is on the
[51:10] priority list as far as
[51:12] >> I think the top three.
[51:13] » I think the top three.
[51:14] >> Yeah. Yeah.
[51:15] » Yeah. Yeah.
[51:15] >> Yeah.
[51:16] » Yeah.
[51:16] >> What about increasing?
[51:19] » What about increasing?
[51:19] Let's take the wreck.
[51:21] Um, you know, if you have major repairs
[51:24] at the wreck, the city will kick in
[51:26] money to help pay for
[51:30] major repair, right? Like a
[51:32] >> it's over HVAC system or something like
[51:35] » it's over HVAC system or something like
[51:35] that.
[51:35] >> Yeah. We're the landlords basically. I
[51:37] » Yeah. We're the landlords basically. I
[51:37] >> just wonder if we need to raise that up
[51:39] » just wonder if we need to raise that up
[51:39] a little bit more. I mean, do we have
[51:41] any do we know what do we know anything
[51:43] about their books?
[51:45] >> I do not.
[51:46] » I do not.
[51:46] >> Yeah. Are we entitled to
[51:48] » Yeah. Are we entitled to
[51:48] >> um I can request it?
[51:49] » um I can request it?
[51:49] >> I just wondered, you know, Miss Leslie.
[51:52] » I just wondered, you know, Miss Leslie.
[51:52] Uh and and guys, don't I love the wreck.
[51:55] I love the wreck. I love the library. I
[51:57] love all this stuff. Uh but like keep
[52:01] white house beautiful, we give $4,000
[52:04] with eight $18,000 500 balance in your
[52:09] books.
[52:10] >> Do we have Do we give to them every
[52:11] » Do we have Do we give to them every
[52:12] year?
[52:14] >> Oh, we do, but it's $3,000 or something.
[52:19] » Oh, we do, but it's $3,000 or something.
[52:19] >> Can we go through nine or nine and 10
[52:23] » Can we go through nine or nine and 10
[52:23] briefly?
[52:24] So the street condition assessment is
[52:29] does that set us up to understand our
[52:32] future uh maintenance cost?
[52:35] >> It would um we had a company TJ had a
[52:38] » It would um we had a company TJ had a
[52:38] company come come in and do a demo and I
[52:41] can show you what some of that reporting
[52:43] looks like. And while she's pulling that
[52:46] up, so when I first started on council,
[52:48] you you'll remember that we had we had
[52:50] to take out a loan because we had so
[52:52] many streets that needed repair because
[52:54] we didn't identify cracks which caused
[52:57] drainage under it and you wind up having
[52:59] to dig them up and resurface them.
[53:01] >> That one
[53:01] » That one
[53:01] >> being proactive.
[53:02] » being proactive.
[53:02] >> Just what's on there concerns me the way
[53:04] » Just what's on there concerns me the way
[53:04] that it's worded.
[53:06] >> So
[53:07] » So
[53:07] >> you talk about sil coat maybe preventive
[53:09] » you talk about sil coat maybe preventive
[53:09] maintenance.
[53:10] >> Exactly. when things are cracked, if
[53:12] » Exactly. when things are cracked, if
[53:12] water is getting under the surface and
[53:13] creating potholes.
[53:15] >> And then I for me the license plate
[53:17] » And then I for me the license plate
[53:17] readers like that's another one that's
[53:19] particularly
[53:21] >> I don't know but
[53:24] » I don't know but
[53:24] around schools particularly like I think
[53:27] that that's kind of a
[53:30] there are maps you can look at in places
[53:32] you don't want them to go. So
[53:36] [clears throat]
[53:37] >> um and the cost of this is actually less
[53:39] » um and the cost of this is actually less
[53:39] than is shown um on that sheet because
[53:44] they came in quite a bit cheaper than
[53:46] your first correct
[53:47] >> than the 60,000.
[53:49] » than the 60,000.
[53:49] >> Yes sir.
[53:49] » Yes sir.
[53:50] >> Even Tercon the other company that we
[53:52] » Even Tercon the other company that we
[53:52] did that's not them. They came in
[53:54] cheaper as well because they both have
[53:56] the automated vehicles
[53:57] >> that do it in brand was going to be
[53:59] » that do it in brand was going to be
[53:59] actually by
[54:01] >> like just the ballpark. What does that
[54:03] » like just the ballpark. What does that
[54:03] number go to?
[54:04] >> Uh believe quoted us for
[54:10] » Uh believe quoted us for
[54:10] 16,000 I believe
[54:11] >> plus a weight list orders of magnitude
[54:14] » plus a weight list orders of magnitude
[54:14] >> and on this company they're doing
[54:17] » and on this company they're doing
[54:17] believe for the what we did it'll be
[54:20] $270
[54:22] a mile
[54:23] and
[54:26] doing the math it's going to be probably
[54:27] close to about 16 as well.
[54:30] >> Wow.
[54:31] » Wow.
[54:31] >> And they are have already done a trial
[54:33] » And they are have already done a trial
[54:33] so we know what to expect out of this
[54:35] company. I don't speak for council, but
[54:38] that's one I would highly recommend
[54:41] moving out priority.
[54:43] >> So, we just say hypothetical situation,
[54:47] » So, we just say hypothetical situation,
[54:47] we were to move the rate to the 79
[54:50] number, how much we got to work do we
[54:51] have to work with on the wish list?
[54:55] >> Um, if you're talking about this one,
[54:58] » Um, if you're talking about this one,
[54:58] it would only be if you wanted to
[55:00] implement those first
[55:03] >> taser detective. Those first three that
[55:07] » taser detective. Those first three that
[55:07] would take you up to about 270
[55:13] in expenses
[55:16] about 30,000
[55:23] » and if we take it that high this year
[55:25] what does that do to us next year?
[55:28] >> It's hard to know um because the
[55:30] » It's hard to know um because the
[55:30] legislature will be in session. Um
[55:33] >> I would say chances are our property tax
[55:35] » I would say chances are our property tax
[55:35] roles will be
[55:38] about where they are now or lower even
[55:41] though we will have growth
[55:43] >> um because they're not done chopping
[55:45] » um because they're not done chopping
[55:45] away. And I don't know if those will go
[55:46] into effect in our next budget cycle. It
[55:49] depends on when they come into effect
[55:50] like the stuff that we're experiencing
[55:51] this year.
[55:53] >> Right. House 9 was
[55:55] » Right. House 9 was
[55:55] >> it was 2025.
[55:57] » it was 2025.
[55:57] >> It was 2025. But we had other
[55:59] » It was 2025. But we had other
[55:59] legislation that went in
[56:01] that was in the 2025 legislative session
[56:04] that went in prior to this year. So the
[56:06] increase in homestead exemptions for
[56:07] schools, some of those went in last
[56:09] year.
[56:10] >> So if we don't lose property tax on the
[56:12] » So if we don't lose property tax on the
[56:12] ROS this next year, it will be the in
[56:14] this budget year, the one we're deciding
[56:16] now will be the one after that at least.
[56:19] >> And how how conservative are we being in
[56:21] » And how how conservative are we being in
[56:21] our overall estimates on growing in the
[56:24] budget?
[56:25] >> That's a good question. So I followed
[56:27] » That's a good question. So I followed
[56:27] our trends right which said our
[56:29] statutory collection is about 90% of
[56:33] what actual collections are and
[56:35] budgeting at about 97%
[56:38] >> okay
[56:38] » okay
[56:38] >> of actual
[56:40] » of actual
[56:40] >> we were only wrong we were only
[56:42] » we were only wrong we were only
[56:42] overestimated one year that I saw
[56:44] history
[56:45] >> uh using using that rate
[56:47] » uh using using that rate
[56:47] >> and maybe there's another 1% we could do
[56:50] » and maybe there's another 1% we could do
[56:50] like maybe
[56:52] >> um
[56:53] » um
[56:53] I I don't know
[56:55] >> so what we could
[56:57] » so what we could
[56:57] Typically by January, February financial
[57:01] reports, end of February financial
[57:04] reports, we have a really good
[57:05] indication of how actual is comparing to
[57:07] budget on property tax revenue because
[57:09] the January 31st deadline. So what we
[57:12] could do is come back to you then and
[57:16] say, "Okay, here's what we budgeted.
[57:18] Here's what we actually collected." And
[57:19] if it's significantly different, you may
[57:21] have an opportunity to uh
[57:23] >> use fund balance at that point. Yeah.
[57:27] » use fund balance at that point. Yeah.
[57:27] brought some water in.
[57:31] » I mean, I looked at the street called
[57:33] Hanks the other day. Man, that Hanks is
[57:36] wow. It is It's kind of showing age.
[57:39] >> Uh business park drive is probably our
[57:41] » Uh business park drive is probably our
[57:41] worst.
[57:42] >> Is it in town?
[57:43] » Is it in town?
[57:43] >> Yeah, we had those prioritized. I think
[57:45] » Yeah, we had those prioritized. I think
[57:45] we did an assessment at some point.
[57:46] >> We did last year just um staff did it.
[57:50] » We did last year just um staff did it.
[57:50] Um but this that TJ was looking at.
[57:52] Let's see if I can get the password
[57:54] right. picking top three in the street.
[57:57] >> If not, I know in the email it the has
[58:00] » If not, I know in the email it the has
[58:00] the presentation which actually has our
[58:02] street.
[58:03] >> It won't be as detailed, but
[58:06] » It won't be as detailed, but
[58:06] >> it
[58:11] pretty
[58:15] much
[58:20] do the street assessment and the
[58:21] readers.
[58:25] I think I mean tools like that because
[58:27] we have limited staff even on the
[58:29] streets when it comes to police to be
[58:30] proactive and things I think it's a
[58:32] >> absolutely it's a great tool.
[58:35] » absolutely it's a great tool.
[58:35] >> What is all that? What's the green?
[58:37] » What is all that? What's the green?
[58:37] >> What are all those tags on?
[58:40] » What are all those tags on?
[58:40] >> It says alligator
[58:45] » okay.
[58:46] >> Yeah. [clears throat] That's the type of
[58:47] » Yeah. [clears throat] That's the type of
[58:47] stuff that winds up to seepage and
[58:49] erosion and you got to seal that.
[58:51] >> You wonder if we Well, we don't want to
[58:56] » You wonder if we Well, we don't want to
[58:56] have taken action earlier.
[58:58] >> I think
[59:02] » I think getting ahead of it this year,
[59:04] if legislation changes next year, we
[59:07] have to
[59:08] >> streets are improvements on a further
[59:10] » streets are improvements on a further
[59:10] decreased budget. And
[59:12] >> streets are one of those things that
[59:14] » streets are one of those things that
[59:14] after you let them go for a while,
[59:15] they're they're five times or 10 times
[59:18] more expensive to repair to replace than
[59:20] they are to repair.
[59:22] I wish I wish we could put that
[59:24] >> street [laughter]
[59:28] out there. You should have seen it in
[59:31] 2004.
[59:32] >> Yeah.
[59:33] » Yeah.
[59:33] >> Golly,
[59:34] » Golly,
[59:34] >> memory lane. Memory lane's getting
[59:36] » memory lane. Memory lane's getting
[59:36] pretty tough, too. So,
[59:38] >> and that's asphalt. So, if there's a way
[59:39] » and that's asphalt. So, if there's a way
[59:39] to start using concrete if that if the
[59:42] >> I mean, the price is closed now. It used
[59:44] » I mean, the price is closed now. It used
[59:44] to be a way it used to be way different.
[59:47] >> Yeah.
[59:47] » Yeah.
[59:47] >> But you can see here. So, that these are
[59:49] » But you can see here. So, that these are
[59:49] the streets that they did. Um the scores
[59:56] and just the level of data and detail is
[59:58] far beyond anything with photos.
[1:00:01] >> Those are just the top five the worst
[1:00:03] » Those are just the top five the worst
[1:00:03] ratings right there.
[1:00:04] >> Yeah.
[1:00:05] » Yeah.
[1:00:05] >> They also did uh because they wanted us
[1:00:07] » They also did uh because they wanted us
[1:00:07] to do ones that were in decent shape. So
[1:00:09] we did uh part of Forestdale and a few
[1:00:12] little areas that were in better shape
[1:00:14] so we can kind of see.
[1:00:16] >> Do we have a prioritization
[1:00:18] » Do we have a prioritization
[1:00:18] like that for the staff? you read my
[1:00:21] brain.
[1:00:21] >> So, if we adopt a few cuts and then we
[1:00:24] » So, if we adopt a few cuts and then we
[1:00:24] had a couple wish list items, is that a
[1:00:28] possibility for this discussion?
[1:00:30] >> Um, I didn't we didn't prioritize those
[1:00:32] » Um, I didn't we didn't prioritize those
[1:00:32] cuts when we were going through it. We
[1:00:34] were just cutting. Um, so we could we
[1:00:37] could prioritize them.
[1:00:39] >> Does anybody council object to that?
[1:00:41] » Does anybody council object to that?
[1:00:41] >> Yeah, I heard a couple of things in
[1:00:42] » Yeah, I heard a couple of things in
[1:00:42] there that are that are obvious. You
[1:00:44] know, if we're part of a membership that
[1:00:46] we don't engage with, stuff like that.
[1:00:47] But if there's anything that is a step
[1:00:50] backwards or prevents us from moving
[1:00:52] forward when engaging with our citizens,
[1:00:54] I think I think we should consider
[1:00:56] keeping them or anything that takes the
[1:00:57] load off of our our staff for doing
[1:01:00] their jobs.
[1:01:01] >> I think that's the responsible thing is
[1:01:03] » I think that's the responsible thing is
[1:01:03] look for cuts, look for opportunities.
[1:01:07] [clears throat]
[1:01:10] » I also like that it had the
[1:01:12] recommendation on the fix for these
[1:01:14] roadways, too.
[1:01:18] Yeah, my first year I think our roads
[1:01:20] budget was a pickup truck with some
[1:01:21] asphalt in the back and a shovel.
[1:01:23] >> Uh that's pretty much [laughter]
[1:01:25] » Uh that's pretty much [laughter]
[1:01:25] all it still is on an annual basis. Um
[1:01:30] it
[1:01:35] » is that something you really need to do
[1:01:37] annually? So that needs to be just put
[1:01:39] into budget.
[1:01:42] >> I I don't know. I mean I'm
[1:01:44] » I I don't know. I mean I'm
[1:01:44] >> once every five years. Well, you need to
[1:01:46] » once every five years. Well, you need to
[1:01:46] Oh, the assessment or the
[1:01:48] >> assessment.
[1:01:48] » assessment.
[1:01:48] >> The assessment I would say probably
[1:01:49] » The assessment I would say probably
[1:01:49] every five years depending on how much
[1:01:51] progress you're making.
[1:01:52] >> I think it's rare that they
[1:01:55] » I think it's rare that they
[1:01:55] >> but
[1:01:57] » but
[1:01:57] 252,000 of that is the Roseville project
[1:01:59] alone.
[1:02:02] So, um, when you look at actual
[1:02:06] roadway repairs,
[1:02:08] >> I believe the street drainage is 8,000
[1:02:12] » I believe the street drainage is 8,000
[1:02:12] if I'm not.
[1:02:14] >> Well, you've got 6,000 in contract
[1:02:16] » Well, you've got 6,000 in contract
[1:02:16] labor.
[1:02:19] » So, that's enough to buy a few cans of
[1:02:21] Flex Seal in here. You're
[1:02:23] >> exactly right.
[1:02:28] » 14,000 in this city. We're very
[1:02:30] fortunate. $14,000
[1:02:33] streets
[1:02:34] >> concrete last 30 years.
[1:02:41] » So,
[1:02:43] I don't know if other people are in
[1:02:45] agreement with the wish list items. I
[1:02:48] think this one's kind of run to the
[1:02:51] ground,
[1:02:52] but uh maybe the other one is the the
[1:02:56] license plate cameras and then flip over
[1:02:59] and look to maybe offset those two
[1:03:02] additional items. I mean, if you agree,
[1:03:06] >> I don't disagree without going backwards
[1:03:08] » I don't disagree without going backwards
[1:03:08] as far as
[1:03:09] >> to the extent possible. I agree.
[1:03:11] » to the extent possible. I agree.
[1:03:11] >> Yeah. If they've if the department has
[1:03:13] » Yeah. If they've if the department has
[1:03:13] identified their deepest cuts, then I'm
[1:03:17] not sure where that would come from,
[1:03:19] but I agree to adding those out. Can you
[1:03:22] can you pull back up the wish list?
[1:03:25] [clears throat]
[1:03:28] » 38 tabs.
[1:03:31] And just for the record, how much do we
[1:03:34] have in our rainy day for in reserves?
[1:03:37] >> So, we're at about I want to say 160
[1:03:40] » So, we're at about I want to say 160
[1:03:40] days of general fund balance.
[1:03:48] » So, you do have some potential to spend.
[1:03:50] So, if if we were to not get the Shenan
[1:03:53] Park grant, there are some things you
[1:03:56] could do out of fund balance for that.
[1:03:58] You really want to make sure those are
[1:03:59] for onetime expenditures.
[1:04:00] >> Yeah.
[1:04:02] » Yeah.
[1:04:02] >> So [clears throat] we're almost twice as
[1:04:03] » So [clears throat] we're almost twice as
[1:04:03] much as the recommended.
[1:04:06] >> 120 days would be the recommended.
[1:04:10] » Yeah.
[1:04:18] » Um
[1:04:22] » and where are the two that you're
[1:04:23] wanting to replace?
[1:04:24] >> We replace two. They're in service on
[1:04:25] » We replace two. They're in service on
[1:04:26] two of the apparatus, but they're
[1:04:27] they're all fire trucks.
[1:04:29] >> Yes, they're on the fire trucks. They're
[1:04:31] » Yes, they're on the fire trucks. They're
[1:04:31] they're they're reaching their their
[1:04:33] matur.
[1:04:37] » Is there a way to know when they're not
[1:04:38] going to work when you use them? Well,
[1:04:41] well, I mean, based on battery life, but
[1:04:43] when you're on, you know, the batteries
[1:04:45] last anywhere from 24 to 36 months, and
[1:04:48] when you have replaced them,
[1:04:51] >> um, three [snorts] and four times at the
[1:04:54] » um, three [snorts] and four times at the
[1:04:54] cost of an AED,
[1:04:57] uh, and then the recommended life cycle
[1:04:59] is about 10 years for
[1:05:02] [snorts]
[1:05:05] cheap on the license plate cameras.
[1:05:10] any concern with moving forward with
[1:05:12] that and any legislative or regulatory
[1:05:17] changes right now?
[1:05:18] >> Those are super hot topics right now.
[1:05:23] » Those are super hot topics right now.
[1:05:24] It uh it doesn't matter what if you're
[1:05:27] conservative or liberal, it is all over
[1:05:31] the place.
[1:05:35] The the one thing Well, I'll say two
[1:05:36] things. First of all, um, since getting
[1:05:39] that quote, the price has come down
[1:05:42] significantly.
[1:05:43] >> Oh, okay. That's a sign.
[1:05:45] » Oh, okay. That's a sign.
[1:05:45] >> Um,
[1:05:48] » Um,
[1:05:48] there under the contract, it's there's a
[1:05:52] immediate whatever legal term you want
[1:05:54] to put in, you can get out of the
[1:05:55] contract immediately.
[1:05:56] >> Okay.
[1:05:57] » Okay.
[1:05:57] >> There's a no fee fine for getting out of
[1:06:00] » There's a no fee fine for getting out of
[1:06:00] the contract. That's one of the main
[1:06:02] things.
[1:06:03] >> And the cost, it's just an annual
[1:06:05] » And the cost, it's just an annual
[1:06:05] operating cost. There's no capital cost.
[1:06:09] >> No, I think the first year is a little
[1:06:10] » No, I think the first year is a little
[1:06:10] bit more because of the equipment, but
[1:06:15] um
[1:06:16] last when I last went over all of this,
[1:06:20] they covered the cost of any damage to
[1:06:22] them. It's not something that we would
[1:06:24] have to pay for. There is that's not an
[1:06:27] immediate thing um because there's
[1:06:30] textile rules and last I heard it's
[1:06:33] taking six to nine months to get
[1:06:35] approval.
[1:06:37] >> So even with that
[1:06:40] » So even with that
[1:06:40] don't hold me on it. Uh talking with
[1:06:43] chiefs we're seeing that price is about
[1:06:46] a third of what it was. But even with
[1:06:50] that it would be something
[1:06:52] you know 10 months Now potentially when
[1:06:56] that actually gets started
[1:06:58] I'm sure they would based on our
[1:07:02] >> and you have it pretty far down on the
[1:07:04] » and you have it pretty far down on the
[1:07:04] priority list. Yeah to the far right
[1:07:07] just what the actual number
[1:07:09] >> the value in it
[1:07:11] » the value in it
[1:07:11] >> is very high
[1:07:15] » change
[1:07:16] >> I think it was like you just don't need
[1:07:17] » I think it was like you just don't need
[1:07:18] it very often
[1:07:18] >> you don't necessarily need it all the
[1:07:20] » you don't necessarily need it all the
[1:07:20] time
[1:07:23] » it's critical
[1:07:27] to the wild truck
[1:07:28] >> what if we phase them instead [snorts]
[1:07:31] » what if we phase them instead [snorts]
[1:07:31] >> of eight do you know do four this year
[1:07:33] » of eight do you know do four this year
[1:07:33] next Sure. I mean that that's not a
[1:07:35] problem. Um we we have of course our
[1:07:38] main
[1:07:40] we have the main two main roads and you
[1:07:43] need uh two in every direction
[1:07:47] basically to capture all the traffic.
[1:07:50] But for us our main thing is we want to
[1:07:52] know who's coming out because that's
[1:07:54] what we're working is the crimes the
[1:07:56] stolen people.
[1:07:57] >> Yeah. When they leave the city
[1:07:58] » Yeah. When they leave the city
[1:07:58] >> when they're leaving we're more
[1:07:59] » when they're leaving we're more
[1:07:59] concerned with that especially that the
[1:08:04] of the sound person. That's [snorts]
[1:08:07] that's our biggest concern. You can't
[1:08:09] put a number on
[1:08:10] >> or an Amber Alert like they got, you
[1:08:12] » or an Amber Alert like they got, you
[1:08:12] know, license plate.
[1:08:14] >> Would you rather have the truck or
[1:08:16] » Would you rather have the truck or
[1:08:16] additional firefight?
[1:08:18] >> Additional fire.
[1:08:20] » Additional fire.
[1:08:20] >> And looking at the cost of the cameras,
[1:08:22] » And looking at the cost of the cameras,
[1:08:22] it's we're halfway to another patrol
[1:08:25] officer with that, too.
[1:08:27] >> That's right.
[1:08:28] » That's right.
[1:08:28] >> I mean, the cameras are a onetime thing.
[1:08:30] » I mean, the cameras are a onetime thing.
[1:08:30] Probably not. I'm sure
[1:08:32] >> there is.
[1:08:33] » there is.
[1:08:33] >> Oh, per year. Okay.
[1:08:34] » Oh, per year. Okay.
[1:08:34] >> Yeah.
[1:08:34] » Yeah.
[1:08:34] >> So, with the cameras
[1:08:36] » So, with the cameras
[1:08:36] >> start third of the cost.
[1:08:38] » start third of the cost.
[1:08:38] >> So,
[1:08:39] » So,
[1:08:39] >> Oh, now it is. Right. Yeah, now it is.
[1:08:41] » Oh, now it is. Right. Yeah, now it is.
[1:08:41] Yeah.
[1:08:42] >> What do you think that is now, Chief?
[1:08:44] » What do you think that is now, Chief?
[1:08:44] >> Again, what I heard was uh they're about
[1:08:48] » Again, what I heard was uh they're about
[1:08:48] 3,000 a piece now.
[1:08:50] >> And I was getting quoted by eight.
[1:08:52] » And I was getting quoted by eight.
[1:08:52] >> The I will say just just for your
[1:08:55] » The I will say just just for your
[1:08:55] information since y'all are discussing
[1:08:58] what how we want to do the money.
[1:09:01] If uh
[1:09:04] if we add
[1:09:08] two more officers in one investigator,
[1:09:11] that allows us to have three people
[1:09:13] every patrol shift as our schedule.
[1:09:17] >> That's a big help in it.
[1:09:19] » That's a big help in it.
[1:09:19] >> That's what it that's what it is right
[1:09:20] » That's what it that's what it is right
[1:09:20] now. Without it, that means we'll have
[1:09:22] three shifts with three and one with
[1:09:23] two. That gets us to three per shift.
[1:09:27] >> That's if everybody's healthy.
[1:09:30] » That's if everybody's healthy.
[1:09:30] which
[1:09:31] >> you are aware of that those situations
[1:09:33] » you are aware of that those situations
[1:09:33] right now when when one's out
[1:09:36] it becomes one and they're outcomes
[1:09:40] over time
[1:09:41] >> I think we need to land on how much we
[1:09:43] » I think we need to land on how much we
[1:09:43] have to spend
[1:09:45] >> maybe
[1:09:48] » maybe
[1:09:48] >> go back to my cut
[1:09:51] » go back to my cut
[1:09:51] >> did you want
[1:09:52] » did you want
[1:09:52] >> you know if we're in agreement that
[1:09:53] » you know if we're in agreement that
[1:09:54] we're going to have to move on the taxes
[1:09:55] in some form or fashion
[1:09:58] and I think Sounds like we are. We just
[1:10:00] got to figure out what that number is
[1:10:01] and how much we have to work with before
[1:10:03] we can
[1:10:05] realistically talk about
[1:10:09] >> Yeah. I'd like to start with basically
[1:10:11] » Yeah. I'd like to start with basically
[1:10:12] budget what we need and then that will
[1:10:15] give us an idea of where the taxes need
[1:10:16] to move to.
[1:10:17] >> Right.
[1:10:18] » Right.
[1:10:18] >> So I mean that's that might be exactly
[1:10:20] » So I mean that's that might be exactly
[1:10:20] what you said.
[1:10:21] >> Yeah.
[1:10:21] » Yeah.
[1:10:22] >> Yeah. But only two officers
[1:10:25] » Yeah. But only two officers
[1:10:25] would um
[1:10:27] not give you any wiggle room but put you
[1:10:29] exactly where you are when you need to
[1:10:31] be.
[1:10:32] >> Having three per shift is
[1:10:36] » Having three per shift is
[1:10:36] where we need to be.
[1:10:37] >> Yeah.
[1:10:38] » Yeah.
[1:10:38] >> Um and I, you know, at the rate that
[1:10:41] » Um and I, you know, at the rate that
[1:10:41] we're growing, I think we'd be good for
[1:10:43] quite a while with that.
[1:10:46] >> But with two, there's just a lot that
[1:10:49] » But with two, there's just a lot that
[1:10:49] comes with that.
[1:10:52] sick vacation,
[1:10:54] one call to the jail, you know, they're
[1:10:56] gone for two hours
[1:10:57] >> for drop off. Yeah.
[1:10:58] » for drop off. Yeah.
[1:10:58] >> Uh there's just a lot that goes into
[1:11:00] » Uh there's just a lot that goes into
[1:11:00] that where we we have a we don't have to
[1:11:02] talk about it, but there's a lot of
[1:11:04] times there's just one officer in the
[1:11:06] whole city.
[1:11:07] >> So, should we consider three?
[1:11:10] » So, should we consider three?
[1:11:10] >> What what's up there is the investigator
[1:11:13] » What what's up there is the investigator
[1:11:13] and two officers will make it work. that
[1:11:15] that provides street per shift
[1:11:18] >> just like when the red lights are are
[1:11:20] » just like when the red lights are are
[1:11:20] out of electricity.
[1:11:22] >> The complaints the other day where the
[1:11:24] » The complaints the other day where the
[1:11:24] police
[1:11:25] >> they don't understand that
[1:11:29] » they don't understand that
[1:11:29] >> there's three intersections out.
[1:11:30] » there's three intersections out.
[1:11:30] >> Yeah.
[1:11:31] » Yeah.
[1:11:31] >> You got one of these covered feel like
[1:11:34] » You got one of these covered feel like
[1:11:34] we'll have all kinds of calls coming in
[1:11:36] the
[1:11:37] >> from the tax assessor.
[1:11:39] » from the tax assessor.
[1:11:39] >> What we have now is all we're going to
[1:11:40] » What we have now is all we're going to
[1:11:40] get
[1:11:42] >> before we make a decision.
[1:11:44] » before we make a decision.
[1:11:44] >> Well,
[1:11:45] » Well,
[1:11:45] We'll we'll get the final number before
[1:11:48] if we push out the date that we decide
[1:11:49] to make that.
[1:11:51] >> Yeah, that's
[1:11:52] » Yeah, that's
[1:11:52] >> we're not going to get any more
[1:11:53] » we're not going to get any more
[1:11:53] additional information.
[1:11:54] >> So, if we didn't make a decision on the
[1:11:55] » So, if we didn't make a decision on the
[1:11:56] 10th, we pushed it out a week.
[1:11:59] >> What I think what that would allow is
[1:12:01] » What I think what that would allow is
[1:12:01] for staff to go back and prioritize
[1:12:02] those cuts.
[1:12:03] >> Yeah. let us tell you where we are and
[1:12:06] » Yeah. let us tell you where we are and
[1:12:06] then we can really kind of set that line
[1:12:08] of this rate would get top three, this
[1:12:12] rate would get four, this would get you
[1:12:13] to five, you know, on this priority
[1:12:16] list.
[1:12:17] >> We can do that now that we have some
[1:12:18] » We can do that now that we have some
[1:12:18] direction from you all. I did not want
[1:12:20] to come out with saying, you know, here
[1:12:22] are all these things without knowing
[1:12:23] where the council wanted to go.
[1:12:26] >> I think that's that should be the plan.
[1:12:27] » I think that's that should be the plan.
[1:12:27] Okay.
[1:12:28] >> So, with the cuts, can we go ahead and
[1:12:30] » So, with the cuts, can we go ahead and
[1:12:30] say now no to certain cuts?
[1:12:32] >> Sure. We can do whatever.
[1:12:36] » Sure. We can do whatever.
[1:12:36] >> Um, real quick on this page, is it
[1:12:39] » Um, real quick on this page, is it
[1:12:39] beneficial to to do something that's not
[1:12:43] really a formal vote, but just run
[1:12:45] through quickly in the top 10 and have
[1:12:48] council with a yes or a no just on
[1:12:51] whether or not they make the the
[1:12:53] budgetary.
[1:12:54] >> Yeah. To see which one we're unanimous
[1:12:56] » Yeah. To see which one we're unanimous
[1:12:56] on at least, right?
[1:12:57] >> Yeah. Exactly. So 133 I think we're
[1:13:00] » Yeah. Exactly. So 133 I think we're
[1:13:00] >> Yeah. And the cuts.
[1:13:02] » Yeah. And the cuts.
[1:13:02] >> Yeah.
[1:13:04] » Yeah.
[1:13:04] can't go.
[1:13:04] >> I think one through three.
[1:13:08] » I think one through three.
[1:13:08] I don't want to speak for Were we good?
[1:13:10] One through three.
[1:13:11] >> Yeah,
[1:13:11] » Yeah,
[1:13:11] >> I think so.
[1:13:12] » I think so.
[1:13:12] >> Okay.
[1:13:13] » Okay.
[1:13:13] >> With the road assessment.
[1:13:15] » With the road assessment.
[1:13:15] >> Yeah.
[1:13:15] » Yeah.
[1:13:15] >> And the road street condition.
[1:13:19] » And the road street condition.
[1:13:19] >> We want to move that.
[1:13:20] » We want to move that.
[1:13:20] >> Does everybody agree with that?
[1:13:22] » Does everybody agree with that?
[1:13:22] >> Yeah.
[1:13:24] » Yeah.
[1:13:24] >> I'm asking you guys are the ones that
[1:13:26] » I'm asking you guys are the ones that
[1:13:26] need it.
[1:13:30] There's a huge price tag difference.
[1:13:32] There's a huge cost difference between
[1:13:34] what I would consider a priority and
[1:13:35] staff work. We worked collectively to
[1:13:38] come up with this
[1:13:39] >> prioritization.
[1:13:41] » prioritization.
[1:13:41] [clears throat]
[1:13:41] >> Um and and from my my standpoint on the
[1:13:44] » Um and and from my my standpoint on the
[1:13:44] fire department staffing issue is the
[1:13:47] most critical.
[1:13:48] >> Okay.
[1:13:48] » Okay.
[1:13:48] >> And it's going to continue to get more
[1:13:50] » And it's going to continue to get more
[1:13:50] critical as time goes on because we we
[1:13:54] have grown the fire department but maybe
[1:13:57] Now, not at a rate the city's growing.
[1:14:00] >> You got you got three on the pump now,
[1:14:01] » You got you got three on the pump now,
[1:14:02] don't you?
[1:14:03] >> Yes,
[1:14:03] » Yes,
[1:14:03] >> I understand and agree with that. But
[1:14:06] » I understand and agree with that. But
[1:14:06] from a pure budgetary standpoint, this
[1:14:10] is kind of like a a risk assessment. So,
[1:14:12] for future years, if there's any major
[1:14:15] infrastructure projects that are going
[1:14:16] to have to get budgeted in, this allows
[1:14:19] us to get ahead of next year's the
[1:14:22] following year's rate in my opinion. So,
[1:14:25] that's the main reason assessment
[1:14:29] [snorts] priorization
[1:14:30] >> on the road.
[1:14:31] » on the road.
[1:14:31] >> Yeah.
[1:14:32] » Yeah.
[1:14:32] >> Well, on that note, we've got one that's
[1:14:34] » Well, on that note, we've got one that's
[1:14:34] been assessed as needs repair.
[1:14:37] >> So, if we're justifying funding and
[1:14:39] » So, if we're justifying funding and
[1:14:39] assessment, we should probably repair
[1:14:41] the one that was assessed as
[1:14:42] >> we can go through the
[1:14:45] » we can go through the
[1:14:45] number eight, memory lane. So,
[1:14:50] » police investigator
[1:14:51] >> memory lane got
[1:14:54] » memory lane got
[1:14:54] >> So, four did we uh Were we unanimous on
[1:14:58] » So, four did we uh Were we unanimous on
[1:14:58] four?
[1:15:00] >> Yes. And it was the investigator and the
[1:15:03] » Yes. And it was the investigator and the
[1:15:03] patrol officer that get you where you
[1:15:05] needed to be. Or did you need number six
[1:15:06] as well?
[1:15:07] >> I recalculated because I do all these
[1:15:09] » I recalculated because I do all these
[1:15:09] numbers over in my head here. Um,
[1:15:12] if we have what's equivalent to 22
[1:15:15] staff, which is an investigator and an
[1:15:17] officer that puts three per shift plus
[1:15:19] five SRO.
[1:15:20] >> Okay. So number number six
[1:15:22] » Okay. So number number six
[1:15:22] >> number six. Really?
[1:15:24] » number six. Really?
[1:15:24] >> No.
[1:15:24] » No.
[1:15:24] >> No, it's a no. That's a no. So, can you
[1:15:26] » No, it's a no. That's a no. So, can you
[1:15:26] please note in there, Leslie, that uh
[1:15:29] what about the additional
[1:15:31] No offense, Chief, but we got to think
[1:15:33] we need to share the love between the
[1:15:35] fire department and police.
[1:15:41] » So, if we got the additional
[1:15:44] firefighter teeth, where are we getting?
[1:15:47] Well, when we look at national when we
[1:15:48] look at national standards, which is
[1:15:50] what we strive for at as a city based on
[1:15:54] national standards, our population, we
[1:15:55] should have seven firefighters on duty.
[1:15:59] >> And we currently have three on duty at
[1:16:01] » And we currently have three on duty at
[1:16:01] all times. Four
[1:16:02] >> with some part-time personnel.
[1:16:05] » with some part-time personnel.
[1:16:05] >> We have been at three firefighters on
[1:16:06] » We have been at three firefighters on
[1:16:06] duty since 2013. Now, we've made giant
[1:16:09] strides in growing the fire department
[1:16:11] in terms of transitioning part-time help
[1:16:14] into to full-time capacity. And that's
[1:16:17] part of been the evolution and the
[1:16:19] infancy of the of the fire department.
[1:16:21] Call volumes of greet increase uh
[1:16:24] exponentially. Uh in the last six years,
[1:16:27] our call volume has has doubled from in
[1:16:29] the low 600s to the low 1000s the last
[1:16:32] couple years close to,200 calls to
[1:16:36] service. So as we
[1:16:40] the biggest critical in the gap as far
[1:16:42] as a safety is that a lot of times when
[1:16:44] we have three people on duty and we have
[1:16:47] a medical call that requires two people
[1:16:49] to go on
[1:16:51] >> then that leaves one person behind at
[1:16:52] » then that leaves one person behind at
[1:16:52] the station to run the first next house
[1:16:54] fire the next cardiac arrest the next
[1:16:57] any kind of call. So for firefighter
[1:16:59] safety first of all I think it's
[1:17:00] paramount that we always work in pairs
[1:17:02] and typically that's how the fire
[1:17:04] service works. Um, and so from a safety
[1:17:08] standpoint, then you look at
[1:17:10] operationally how much more effective
[1:17:12] four
[1:17:14] is on the fire ground or in rescue
[1:17:16] operations than three, which in turn
[1:17:19] circles back around to firefighter
[1:17:21] safety as well. So, um, I think the
[1:17:25] long-term goal is to get four per shift,
[1:17:27] and I think we can operate like that
[1:17:30] well with our partners that we're going
[1:17:32] to have automatic and mutual aid with.
[1:17:34] Um, but it's the point of getting to the
[1:17:37] to that, right?
[1:17:38] >> And some of that wouldn't be necessarily
[1:17:40] » And some of that wouldn't be necessarily
[1:17:40] the full cost that you see here because
[1:17:42] we currently supplement with part-time
[1:17:44] employees. So, we are paying for
[1:17:47] coverage for some of those hours. And
[1:17:49] so, that's what this note really means
[1:17:50] here is that transitioning that
[1:17:53] position, that coverage from part-time
[1:17:56] to full-time. Um, we still right now
[1:17:59] don't have four per shift on all shifts
[1:18:01] even with supplementing with part time.
[1:18:03] So there's a little bit of nuance in
[1:18:05] trying
[1:18:13] » Yeah, that seems like maybe if we could
[1:18:15] focus in on what that actual number is
[1:18:16] and I'd imagine it's the same case with
[1:18:18] the additional patrol officer. There's
[1:18:20] [clears throat] some overtime coming
[1:18:21] from the other patrol officers when
[1:18:23] somebody's out sick or something like
[1:18:24] that, right?
[1:18:25] >> Yeah. It's not I wouldn't say super
[1:18:27] » Yeah. It's not I wouldn't say super
[1:18:27] significant.
[1:18:30] >> I mean, one of the advantages to to do
[1:18:32] » I mean, one of the advantages to to do
[1:18:32] some offsets, the idea is to get four
[1:18:35] four firefighters on duty at all time
[1:18:37] for all the reasons we talked about
[1:18:40] the
[1:18:40] >> 17 or 18.
[1:18:42] » 17 or 18.
[1:18:42] >> The option to that is when we do have
[1:18:45] » The option to that is when we do have
[1:18:45] one of our full-time personnel vacation
[1:18:48] for six, we would keep our minimum
[1:18:50] staffing to three.
[1:18:52] >> So, we would work down to three. thus
[1:18:55] » So, we would work down to three. thus
[1:18:55] saving those overtimes for replacement.
[1:18:59] >> Chief, what about insurance rates?
[1:19:02] » Chief, what about insurance rates?
[1:19:02] >> Does that matter? Um, you know, class
[1:19:04] » Does that matter? Um, you know, class
[1:19:04] one fire department.
[1:19:07] >> Our current ISO is a four.
[1:19:10] » Our current ISO is a four.
[1:19:10] >> Uh, we're working with ISO currently
[1:19:13] » Uh, we're working with ISO currently
[1:19:13] citywide for that that rating. I do
[1:19:15] anticipate an improvement, but ISO no
[1:19:19] longer really has any significant uh
[1:19:22] bearing on insurance premiums locally.
[1:19:24] It's done by the agents and the industry
[1:19:28] because the technology and data
[1:19:30] collection is much more precise than
[1:19:32] ISO.
[1:19:34] ISO does show that a city's doing all
[1:19:36] the right things uh to make it a safer
[1:19:38] and better place.
[1:19:42] on five and six. I'm a know.
[1:19:47] [snorts]
[1:19:49] >> So I don't know about the rest of
[1:19:51] » So I don't know about the rest of
[1:19:51] council intact. Just
[1:20:00] » Yeah. From what I hearing, uh the the
[1:20:02] ones we put a yes on for police and
[1:20:04] fire, we get them to where they need to
[1:20:07] be.
[1:20:09] Well, it would get
[1:20:11] >> Yeah. Police for sure. Firefighter.
[1:20:15] » Yeah. Police for sure. Firefighter.
[1:20:15] >> Oh, we're not doing five.
[1:20:17] » Oh, we're not doing five.
[1:20:17] >> Oh, you said for five and six. No,
[1:20:19] » Oh, you said for five and six. No,
[1:20:19] >> I based on what I think I was hearing.
[1:20:23] » I based on what I think I was hearing.
[1:20:23] >> He was saying
[1:20:23] » He was saying
[1:20:23] >> there's already one uh three. So, if we
[1:20:27] » there's already one uh three. So, if we
[1:20:27] add the firefighter and number three,
[1:20:32] right, that gets us to three full-time
[1:20:35] employees
[1:20:36] >> per two out of three shifts.
[1:20:38] » per two out of three shifts.
[1:20:38] >> Two out of three shifts. Not three out
[1:20:40] » Two out of three shifts. Not three out
[1:20:40] of three shifts.
[1:20:42] >> Okay. So, it's worse than a
[1:20:44] » Okay. So, it's worse than a
[1:20:44] >> Okay, then
[1:20:46] » Okay, then
[1:20:46] on five.
[1:20:47] >> I'm glad.
[1:20:47] » I'm glad.
[1:20:47] >> I'm sorry.
[1:20:49] » I'm sorry.
[1:20:49] >> Yeah, that's