i don
t think we do the other
one, but there might be. But I.
Thank you. So we
ll build it
after you. Yes. Thank.
And after the first talk, a
little.
Something.
The Joyner Press Council member
Clark here.
Council member.
Bohlen here.
Council member. Sisco. Mayor
pro tem. Adams. Thank you.
Council member. Taylor.
Present.
Council member. Hall and
council member. Burke.
Thank you very much. Please
join the City council meeting
in a moment of silence. Thank
you so much. Would you please
join the City Council in me in
the Pledge of Allegiance? I
pledge allegiance to the flag
of the United States of America.
To the body which is state, one
nation under GOD, indivisible,
with liberty and justice for
all. Thank you very much. Our
sergeant at arms tonight is
Lieutenant Langdon. Thank you
for being with us tonight. And
our fire marshals. Peacock to
be with us. Before we get into
the city manager
s report
tonight. Obviously, we have a
very special group of
individuals who are with us
tonight. Might recall that on
the on the JULY 4th at the
stadium, we recognized number
of centurions from our
community here, those who are
100 years old or older. And
instead we wanted to actually
bring them or ask them to come
down to City Hall tonight. So
we could recognize them in
person as part of us
celebrating our 250th
anniversary as a country. I
can
t think of a better way to
do that than to recognize those
individuals who have made it a
special part of our of our
city. So we do have a number
of, of of folks here tonight.
I
m going to call your names.
And if you would just raise
your hand and wave at us there,
and we
re going to give you a
little gift there. I think, uh,
good to be here for so but so.
Okay, so our first one is Ben
Meeks. Briggs. Briggs, thank
you for being with. All right.
Briggs won
t mind me saying
he
s a 104 years old. All right.
Elizabeth Linsky, there she is,
right there. Althea McIntyre.
Annie Smith. And Lena Wardlow.
We are just delighted to have
you with us tonight. And we
re
delighted that you
ve been a
part of our community. Thank
you for all your wives. Uh,
make such a difference. I do
want to unfortunately
acknowledge that since the JULY
4th event, we have lost two of
our sisters. Um, when Robert
Lindsay Greer, who was one of
our original firefighters on
the original African-American
firefighters created the fire
department, he was 104. And
then maybe when we have members
of their family and our family
here. Where m is to deal with
those 127. What a great legacy
for our community. We
re glad
to have you tonight. Uh, uh,
we
re going to move on with our
meeting now, but feel free to
stay as long as you like. And
feel free to go any time you
like as well.
You can do whatever they want.
Yeah, right. Your prayers. And.
I wish.
Along highway 93. From her.
Mouth. By the time.
I just received.
A little for a long. Uh, time.
It
s worth.
Every second.
I took. Thank you.
Of.
Of. They were live their life
is almost. I will thank you.
Everyone of us. So resume the
meeting. Uh. Let me. Call on
the city manager if you
re
ready for your, uh. Continuing
to be serviced.
Uh, until the replacement
stickers are received. So, uh,
if you
re having problem with
your red sticker staying on,
there is another one coming in
that were have asked them to be
a little bit more intentional
with the adhesive that they put
on those.
This time.
, just before our next meeting,
I also want.
To.
Remind Council and the public
that our Wisdom Transit
Authority will be implementing
the largest service redesign in
in a number of years. On AUGUST
the 30th, transitioned from
primarily 60 minute and waste
service to primarily 30 minute
service to provide more
frequent and convenient transit.
Extensive community outreach
and public education to help
shape, communicate, and service
changes. And there will be more
information can be found on our.
Let me ask transit not call our
website about the change. One
of the council know the public
and we
re also starting our
annual city of Winston-Salem
University program this
Thursday, AUGUST 20th, which
will run through NOVEMBER 2nd.
Council members are welcome to
tent sessions. We
re excited to
have a group of community
residents that really want to
learn more about the city, city
government, and what is offered
in our community, so we
re
excited to talk them starting
this Thursday in the
construction of the Helen
Walking Church, located on
Carbon School Road, began in
APRIL, is now about 99.5%.
Proven. Solution. Boardwalk
pedestrian trail, fitness
equipment, shade structures,
scratch resistant landscaping
and completion is expected
around the end of SEPTEMBER and
the public grant development
plan as we get closer to. A
want a couple of recognitions?
Don
t recognize City Manager
women who are recently
completed the public Executive
Leadership Challenge to to the
Community School of Government
Program Development and
leadership collaboration and
placemaking skills. Local
government effectiveness. So
congratulations. Thank. And I
m
going to actually turn it over
to to her right now to our
parking.
Uh thank you. So we recently
for today do general Services
Department, which is comprised
of our property facilities
management and vegetation
management, sustainability and
our central warehouse. And we
just hired a perfect. And so he
just started two weeks ago. As
the director of departments, he
has said it
s been more than a
decade. Local government
leadership with the county
since 2012. And now several
leaders. Deputy Fletcher, major
individuals. In criminal
justice. Administration. So I
m
excited to have. To. For and
see.
Have the city. Because we want
to support it in all others to
make public facilities. And our.
Come all the things in the past.
Help us to second is trying. To
just places. With some of our
with. That and resources around
the policies. First and. 635
dash. One elements. 12. Master
is expanding how? The council a
lot of houses, a lot of
housing, stores Council budgets
and tuition provisions as human
are with the city. On
Wednesday, AUGUST 26th, from
930 to 1130 at the Old Town
Neighborhood Center at 4550
Chaplin Drive. Residents are
invited to meet with city staff
and community partners, learn
about city services, ask
questions, share ideas, and
discuss issues affecting their
neighborhoods, complimentary
coffee and refreshments will be
provided. And then, at our
communities last week,
particularly in the public
works Committee meeting last
last week highlighted the
outstanding work across
multiple city departments that
took place to resolve the a
major water main break that
occurred at the end of JULY.
I
d be remiss if I didn
t take
a moment at this platform to
acknowledge the extraordinary
around the clock effort of our
employees, many of which you
are also feeling the impact at
their homes on this water
outage. Our water main break,
whose example our one team
approach to city government in
action around professionalism,
commitment and collaboration of
all these individuals working
not only with one another but
with the county and the
community as a whole, including
the many organizations and
individuals to step up to help
those who need it. During this
time, the Council is our
expression of appreciation for
their work on that. And joining
me in the spirit of Christmas.
Thank you to the public for his
patience and for all those who
played a hand in taking care of
the situation. So thank you. I
know you had some of them. Some
of them were even much needed
break right now from the work
that they had on. And then just
finally, I wanted to
acknowledge the International
Theater Festival that was in
full spring, actually full
swing. What am I going to
cover? But the city worked with
the festival organizers, hotels
and host sites to minimize the
impact on the tens of thousands
of guests that were in town.
For one of our community
signature events, the spirit
and enthusiasm of the attendees
and participants was powerful,
and the festival was a true
celebration of the arts like
culture and the power of
community to bring people
together to find. The festival
featured more than hundred and
20 performances by 30
professionals like the
companies, many of the
performances were sold out,
most of them organizers
estimate that the weeklong
event generated economic impact
for dollars. City caused the
impact positively impacting
hotels, restaurants, retailers,
transportation providers, and
other local businesses. They do
always kind of like always does
a fantastic job with this
festival together. And I felt
like we needed to recognize
them for that work. Since and
since, unless we
re meeting
together. So without camera,
which.
Was a delicious.
Display.
Good. Thank you very much.
Thank you. Have a two honorees.
Who have I?
Resolution recognizing national
emergency Management Awareness
Month.
Whereas emergencies.
And disasters, including
natural. Manmade and
technological.
And occur unexpectedly posing
significant threats to life,
property and environment. And
whereas the Winston-Salem
Forsyth County Office.
Of Emergency Management, the
city of Winston-Salem emergency
managers across all sectors,
community leaders, the North
Carolina Division of Emergency
Management, and the Federal
Emergency Management Agency,
fema dedicate countless hours
to developing preparedness,
response, recovery, and
mitigation programs to protect
the lives and property of all
persons living in the United
States and U.S. Territories.
And Whereas, emergency managers
across the United States and
U.S. Territories are charged
with establishing and
capabilities necessary to
effectively direct, coordinate,
and support emergency and
disaster response and recovery
efforts. And Whereas, the
efforts of our nation
s
emergency managers have helped
millions of community members
across the United States to
cover, rebuild and become more
resilient in the face of
adversity. Now, therefore, be
it resolved, the Mayor and City
Council of the city of
Winston-Salem hereby recognize
the month of AUGUST as National
Emergency Management Awareness
Month in the city of
Winston-Salem, in conjunction
with the National Preparedness
Month in SEPTEMBER, with the
support of the North Carolina
Division of Emergency
Management, the International
Association of Emergency
Managers, and the National
Emergency Management
Association, all U.S.
communities are urged to
express their sincere
appreciation for emergency
managers in every sector who
work diligently to prepare,
protect and serve our cities,
counties and states. Tribes,
territories, regions and
organizations against all
hazards and risks.
Through motion.
MR. Mayor Pro Tem actions by
Councilmember all although to
say I. A unanimous asked the
CHAIRMAN Of the Committee to
present us to our Director of
Emergency Management to offer.
On behalf of our city. We thank
you for all of your excellent
work that you do in your
department. We are excellent
because of your diligence, your
commitment and all of the time
your staff gives. When we have
mercy, we thank you. We
appreciate you and we are.
Thank you, MR. Mayor. Mayor Pro
Tem and members of the council
for the proclamation. Just very
briefly, the Office of
Emergency Management. We plan
to coordinate our community
response to disasters. Large
scale emergency, natural avenue
and technological development,
and major infrastructure. And
they occur. We do this by
partnering with our local,
city, county, regional, state,
federal, private and nonprofit,
non-governmental organizations.
Our office is a very small team
of five individuals and self,
and we are typically working
behind the scenes at public
eye. So I think the
proclamation excellent where we
are now and what our team does
and our mission is. And with
that, I just want to accept the
proclamation on behalf of my
teams, recognition. One word.
Thank you very much and have
you. Thank you, MR.. Going over
to fc during the water main
crisis, here with full house
work. First I will say about
the city performance and we are
to the beginning. Thank you.
Have our needs to.
Thank you for resolution
honoring the 2026 Winston-Salem
Police Department. Citizens
Police Academy graduates.
Whereas 12 citizens have
successfully completed the
Winston-Salem Police Department,
Citizen Police Academy. Shannon
Dula, Antoinette Conrad Montego
Davidson, Lacey Dickens,
Jocelyn Grace, Leticia Harrison
Brooks, Jewett, Judith
Renteria, Marion Chantelle,
Shante Reynolds, and and Cisco.
Ladies. And whereas the course
is intended to provide
residents with a deeper
understanding of the inner
workings and complexities of
law enforcement and the
Winston-Salem Police
Department. And Whereas the
2026 Citizens Police Academy
has included more than 30 hours
of interactive instruction
across 13 weeks, giving
participants a behind the
scenes look at Winston-Salem
Police Department. And Whereas
the coursework covers city
government and governance
structure and community
engagement, investigation,
field operations, and
constitutional law, and much
more. Whereas participants
experience specialized units
such as Swat, k-9, forensics,
and the real time crisis and
have completed a ride along or
cit, along with patrol or
communications. And Whereas
their dedication has resulted
in a better understanding and
appreciation of city government
and law enforcement, and their
participation has given them
resources to serve their
community and the world better.
Now, therefore, be it resolved
that the mayor and the
Winston-Salem City Council
hereby approve honoring the
2026 Winston-Salem Citizens
Police Academy graduates in
which the much discussed with
their future as community
leaders.
Come. For our second, because
they are pursuing a position
that has unanimous and
presented us to begin to. Alan
recognized. Thank you, Kenzie.
Thank you for helping to make
all this happen here. And Chief
Fan has joined us here. How are
you? Uh, so we are delighted to
have this program in our city
and our public safety chair and
member of the class is here as
well. So I
ll present this to
you and invite you to make a
comment to your life.
Good evening. Mayor. Mayor Pro
Tem, member of the Council.
Thank you for this recognition
for the Citizens Police
Academy. And I also wanted to
take this opportunity to extend
my gratitude to them. Although
it is very clear to me that
everyone knows how to do our
job, when, where and how to do
it. Um, it
s especially I want
to thank them this committee
group, for the 13 Thursdays
that they spent learning all
about the police department.
Um, they took ownership of
their police department, and
they learned a lot. I will tell
you that as much as they
learned during those 13 weeks,
we learn just as much from
them. And I
m going to warn
them, like I did at the
beginning of class. They hear
all this knowledge with them.
However, if every time they
watch in cop movies with their
family members, they say they
can
t do that or they can
t do
that, no one will want to watch
tv with them. So please refrain
for that. But thank you.
I will add that we have the
fall version of Citizens Louis
County coming up on AUGUST
27th. Thank you all so much.
Thank you. Now go to our
regular agenda. Our agenda is
comprised of two parts the
consent agenda and the general
agenda. As always, practice of
our Council to pay to consent
agenda is the first order of
business. Items on this agenda
have been unanimously
recommended by committee of the
City Council, or are being
submitted in accordance with
established city procedure.
There will be no discussion of
the items on this agenda unless
council members so request that
item be removed. The consent
agenda and considered
individually. Item is not
remove will be enacted with one
motion. Councilmember. Hall was
asked by seven with any other
items. Councilmember seeing
none is here.
I
ll move for approval.
Of the consent.
Agenda.
Second, Councilmember Clark.
This is what chronic disease
electronic vote. Please
indicate a voting yes if no one
can invoice with. All in favor,
please say aye. Aye. Opposed?
And that
s unanimous. MAY have
item c7, please.
Item c7 resolution establishing
a new date for Winfield Forward,
llc to complete construction of
the Residences at Indiana to
provide affordable housing
located in the North Ward.
Presented at city at the
Committee. This is fine. I can
do my remark, which is a very
general. I
ll just be
presenting what I did on last
Monday, if that
s okay. Mayor
Jones okay, um, what I wanted
to do was make sure that I
reiterated what I mentioned at
the Housing and General
Government meeting on last
Monday. That was just that, um,
the representatives from
Winfield for, uh, to follow up
with Mayor Pro Tem Adams, who
is the representative for this
ward, to be sure that they are
able to follow up with the
residents who are across the
street and Stonewall community.
I know that they did make that,
um, promise during that meeting
on last Monday. I just want to
make sure that that is stated
on record. So they do follow up
and make sure that they have
that meeting with, uh, Council
Member Adams, as well as the
residents that are nearby for
the update with the um, site
plans and also with the new
date for completed
construction. Thank you, Mayor
Jones.
, promotion Council member.
I am. And with that, I move to
approve item c7.
By Mayor Pro Tem Adams. Any
discussion? If not all those in
favor of this motion, please
indicate by saying I.
I.
Oppose no. And that unanimous
thinking. Now go to the general
agenda, which is concludes
public hearings on alleyway
closure, flood insurance
compliance, text amendment
seven zoning petitions and
elected body special use permit
petition, public hearings are
called uh. Persons in the
Council chamber will be given
an opportunity to speak if
there is opposition to a public
hearing item. The proponents
and opponents will be given 15
minutes for presentation and
three minutes for rebuttal. If
no one wishes to speak on
public hearing and the City
council will consider the item
which we have, item g one,
please.
Item g one public hearing and
consideration of a petition to
close an abandoned a 1.25 acre
unnamed alleyway between Allen
Street and Wilbur Street,
located in the southeast ward.
Thank you. Is there anyone in
the Council chamber who wishes
to be heard on this item?
Seeing no one, I declare the
public hearing closed and
recognize the CHAIRMAN Of the
Public Works Committee.
Councilmember.
I move for approval of item.
Chief.
Second., which is a second by
Councilmember Taylor. Go ahead
and say that.
I move for approval of item g.
One second in the discussion of
this item. Not afraid. The
motion, please. In the
capability. Yes. Anyone opposes
vote no. And as unanimous.
Thank you. Item g2.
Item g2 public hearing and
consideration of Udo cc 36
National Flood Insurance
Program Compliance testimony.
This is a public hearing. Is
there anyone in the Council
chamber who wishes to be heard
on this proposed amendment to
the National Flood Insurance
Program compliance text. C one
under threat public hearing
code close to recognize Mayor
Pro Tem items.
Thank you. Mayor. I move for
approval of one the statement
of consistency for the approval
of this item and two. Udl cc
36.
Second. Second by Councilmember
Clark. Any discussion questions
now for the motion please, and
keep a voting yes. Anyone who
s
vote no. That is unanimous.
Thank you. Item g three.
Item g three public hearing and
consideration of the Zoning
petition of young keeping him w
3687 from Rs nine and rm18 to
Rs seven. Property is located
east of the Andrews Drive, and
we
ve asked Boulevard
intersection located in the
North Ward.
Is there anyone in the council
CHAIRMAN Who is opposed to this
rezoning? Seeing that we
re not
the chair of the public hearing
closed and recognize the
appropriate Adams, I
ll.
Move for approval of one. The
statement of consistency for
the approval of this item. And
two w 3687.
A second. Second second.
Council member Taylor. Any
discussion questions? Not all
for the motion, please indicate
by voting yes. Anyone opposed?
Vote no. That is unanimous.
Thank you. Mayor Pro Tem, item
g.
Item g for public hearing and
consideration of a zoning
petition of Lewis David Vargas.
W 3688 from Rs nine to gbl
properties located on the west
side of Home Road, north of
Indiana Avenue, containing
approximately 0.36 acres.
Located in the North Ward..
So anyone in the Council
chamber who is opposed to this
proposed rezoning. Seeing no
one, I declare a public hearing
closed and again recognized
mayor put on work. You are
less.
I move for approval of one
statement of consistency for
the approval of this item, and
two w 3688.
For a second. Second second.
Councilmember. Clerk in session.
Questions on this item? Not all
those in favor, please indicate
voting yes. Anyone who
s. As
unanimous. Thank you. Item g
five.
Item five. Motion to excuse
Council Member Taylor from
voting item g6.
Thank you. Chair a motion to
excuse Councilmember Taylor.
I move to Councilmember Taylor.
Be voting on item g six.
Second above for all. Any
discussion. All those in favor
of the item, please take the
voting. Yes. Anyone opposed?
Vote no and that is unanimous.
For whatever your excuse for
voting on item. Uh, g6, they
will have on Jesus.
I g6 public hearing and
consideration of a zoning
petition for Water Holding llc
doing business as equal
properties w 3689 from R.M.
Eight s and lil two lifo
properties located at the
southeast intersection of South
Main Street and Arnold Avenue,
containing approximately 0.81
acres. Located in the southeast
ward.
Thank you. Is there anyone in
the Council CHAIRMAN Who
opposed this rezoning? Seeing
no one, our declare the public
hearing closed and just comes
prepared. Excused. I
m
councilmember. Motion. Thank
you.
Thank you. Mayor. I move for
approval of the statement of
consistency for the approval of
this item. And w-3689.
Second by Mayor Pro Tem Adams.
Any discussion questions on
this item? Not all those in
favor. The motion please. Yes.
Anyone opposed? Nope. That is
unanimous with Councilmember
Taylor being excused following
on it. Item d7.
Item g7 Public Hearing and
consideration of the Zoning
Petition of hhs Holdings, llc.
W 3690. From lds to gps
properties located along the
southeast side of South
Stratford Road and at the
terminus of Ashwood Drive,
containing approximately 2.38
acres located in the southwest
Ward.
Thank you. Is there anyone in
the Council chambers opposed to
this rezoning? See, you want to
declare a public hearing closed
and recognized? Councilmember
Andre Bowman.
MR. Mayor, I move.
For approval of one statement.
Consistency for the approval of
this item. And to w 3690.
Second Councilor Scipio. Any
discussion questions? Now, all
those in favor? The motion,
please keep the voting. Yes.
Anyone knows those have. And
that is unanimous. Thank you.
Item g8.
I am g a public hearing and
consideration of the zoning
petition of all Red Investment
Company, llc. W 3692 from gi
and cpo to gpl properties
located on the north side of
East Haynes Mill Road, across
from Brasfield Drive,
containing approximately 44.45
acres. Located in the northeast
Ward.
Thank you. Is there anyone in
the Council CHAIRMAN Who is
opposed to this rezoning?
Seeing no one on declare the
public hearing closed and
recognized, Councilmember.
Fortune.
Thank you, mayor. I move for
approval of one. The statement
of consistency for the approval
of this item. And two w 3692.
One mayor Pro Tem Adams any
discussion questions on this
item? Not all those in favor,
please. Yes. You want to close
out that? As approved
unanimously. Item g nine.
Item g9 public hearing and
consideration of a Zoning
Petition of alma mater w 3693
from Rs nine to Knoll
Properties, located on the
south side of Country Club Road
between South Cliff Dale Drive
and Harbor Street, paying
approximately 0.33 acres.
Located in the southwest Ward.
I understand there is
opposition to this item, so we
will have a public hearing for
the proponents here to make
comments. Uh, MR. Murphy is
going to do that for us. Mayor.
Um, mayor Pro Tem, members of
council, uh, this request is to
rezone 0.33 acres of property
located on the south side of
Country Club Road, between
South Lift and Rob and Harbor
Street, located in the
southwest ward from Rs. Nine to
Knoll neighborhood office.
Limited use. This is a map of
the for 2045 Growth Management
Area Plan map showing the
property located in gma three
suburban neighborhoods. It is
located to the south side of
Country Club Road, just to the
west of South Creek Parkway.
South Creek Parkway, and that
area does serve as the dividing
line between gma
s two and
three, but this is located
within the suburban suburban
neighborhood. Growth management.
Uh, this is a subject property
highlighted in yellow, again
shown on the south side of
Country Club Road. You see, it
is located just slightly west
of a large office, uh, zoning
across the road from an us
townhome project. It is located
in between Harper and Cliff
Dale, and it is located close
to the on and off ramps as
follows. Creek Parkway Road.
Outlined in yellow. This is the
existing single home. This
would be an adaptive reuse. And
again you do see the
development pattern in the
area. Some intense single
family and multifamily to the
north have traditional older
homes on that south side of
Country Club Road. And again
you do see the office
development there to the east
along South Creek Parkway. And
you see to the west the
beginnings of the um,
commercial area. There to the
west, the Gordon Manor area.
This is the subject property
shown on the West Suburban Area
Plan update, which was updated
in 2018. It does recognize the
existing single family
residential use of the property
and recommends for this
property to be developed as
single family residential. Uh,
also in the area plan. Uh, you
know, does talk about the
neighborhood office and zoning
can be an acceptable transition
use and can be accepted
alternative to single family
residential, especially along,
uh, urban corridors such as
country Club Road. So again, it
doesn
t meet the specific
recommendation of area plan.
But there is some flexibility
there for adaptive reuse of
existing structures. Uh, this
is just some images. This is
looking east along Country Club
Road to subject property is to
the right to see the zoning
sign there on the other side
you see some of those townhomes
that were built about 8 to 10
years ago. You do in the
background over there. See the
southbound offramp from South
Creek Parkway, home to Country
Club. Uh, this is looking west
on along hundred Club Road. The
subject property is to the left
in the on the image you see the
apartments, uh, apartments of
townhomes across country Club.
Again, there
s a wall, there
s
a vegetated screen, but there
is more intense side of the
road. Uh, this is looking
south. Home kind of club road
at the subject property. This
is the house in question. Uh,
this is looking west from the
property and adjacent vacant
parcel. Their own country club.
This is looking east from the
subject property and another
adjacent to make it parcel to
give. This is looking more
directly across the backs of
the townhomes across Country
Club Road. And looking at the
project can provide an analysis
of West Suburban area plan
update recommends this property
for low density single family
development. The district is
intended to accommodate home
office conversions at the edges
of existing residential
neighborhoods. The proposed
request is compatible with the
residential development pattern
of the area, and would
accommodate reuse of that
existing single family home on
the site. Proposals. Also
consistent with forward to 2045
recommendations to create
compatible transitions between
different land uses. This was
heard by the Planning Board at
their meeting in JULY. Uh,
there was one speaker in
opposition, primarily concerned
with the additional business
development along the country
Club Road corridor. I believe,
specifically related to traffic
concerns. Uh, following the
public hearing of the, uh, the
planning board did voted
unanimously to recommend
approval of this request to
council. And with that, I stand
ready to answer any questions.
MR. Murphy. Good morning. Thank
you, MR. Murphy. Um, so what
are the what can
t what are the
limitations of moving from what
is currently to what the Noel
what are the major limitations?
Because we spoke earlier that
there are things they just
can
t do. They can do. Can you
explain that a little bit in
detail? As much as you can.
Under this request, they are
specifically asking for a
limited number of uses or
asking for an office use,
asking for a couple of
different kinds of adult
daycare uses. They
re asking
for a couple of different kinds
of child daycare uses, and
they
re asking to keep the
existing single family home as
a potential use. But it can
only be one of those four
things. All of us residence,
daycare center, or adult
daycare provider, or a
combination thereof. Of course,
if they keep the existing home,
they would have to make sure it
meets, uh, non-residential
code. Uh, if they
re going to
have it as any type of
occupancy other than single
family, um, there are no
conditions of approval related
to this. As far as keeping the
home, we don
t really have
anything that would kind of if
you remove it and you violated
the zoning condition, there
s
not really a remedy to put the
house back if you tear it down.
Given the limited nature of the
uses that are being requested,
I don
t think it
s likely that
the house is to be torn down
and rebuilt for something else.
Perhaps the petitioner could
speak to that, but again, it
wouldn
t be binding. But very
limited frame of uses that are
being requested here. I know
that one of the concerns of the
people who are opposed to this
is around the traffic. Um, is
there a limitation of how many
cars can go into this proposed,
zoning? Not as part of this,
because there
s no site
specific development plan. The
uses that are here and
obviously a child daycare
center would be somewhat
limiting by the square footage
of the structure. Uh, and
office, you know, again,
generally speaking, of all
pesticides would generate a lot
of traffic, but there would be
any guarantees or assurances
related to traffic because it
s
a limited use request, can
t
speak to the fact that the
existing traffic count in that
area on Country Club is at
15,500, and the capacity before
you tip over into level of
service d is 15,800. So it is a
heavily congested road. Thank
you. We now will have our
public hearing. Uh, is the
proponent here a proponent?
Yes. Okay. We
ll get back to
you. Anyone to speak for the
proponent of okay. Yes. MR..
Please come forward. And just
give your name and address for
the record. Please.
Hello. My name is alma mater,
and I
m representing the House,
36 Oak Country Club and I don
t
know how to serve, but, um, we
are, um, having concerns about
the traffic. Uh, usually we try
to use the house for home
office. Um, the main point is,
uh, well, I don
t know what to
say, but it is, uh, it
s
somebody really interesting to
use the house for. Home office?
It
s a lawyer. Is, I guess it
s
not going to be heavy traffic.
If it is a problem, but I don
t
know what I
m say.
Okay.
Thank you. All right. Anyone
else? For the proponents right
now and ask for the opponents?
Yes, ma
am. State your name and
address for the record as well.
Hi. Um, I
m Valerie Martin, my
address is 417 South
Cloverdale. And, um, I am also
speaking today on behalf of the
Sheffield Garden. Um
Association. Central Garden.
Sorry, there
s a Sheffield
garden club that I
m a part of,
as well as the Sheffield
neighborhood. Um, Association.
And I have a list of names of
people that I spoke with. And
I
m. Copies of. Um, so as a
lifelong resident of this
neighborhood, um, I am also I
m
very happy that about the
office building that is there
on the office across Harper
Street. If you look at your map
and I will have to say three
things, your pictures must have
been taken. I don
t know what
time of day it showed no
traffic at all. And, um, the
office building that is built
there was heavily contested by
the entire neighborhood at that
time. It was during the 90s. It
was a tie three three vote. And
our previous mayor nine was tie
breaker. But, um, and there
used to be a surveying company
that was down the street. They
actually wrote a report that
talked about how, um, damaging
that office building was going
to be. Our neighborhood because
of water runoff, which is a
problem that we it
s our
neighborhood is downhill from
the country club. So we
constantly have a problem with
the runoff. I do know that the
state just passed a law about
the parking, so that
s great
that the permeable surfaces
surfaces won
t be a problem
here. Um, but I will have to
say that the neighborhood, um,
surveying with the 500 radius,
um, and I find that very, um,
not substantial to get a good
opinion about what the people
in that area will be impacted
by this development. Um, I
understand and appreciate my
council person asking me
directly about the, um,
furthering of, like what? That
you know, what the, um,
limitations are on that
building. And, um, just my
concern and yesterday, it might
just be an office for one
lawyer, but who
s to say that
they don
t care now and then?
Like you said, there
s nothing
really good about that. And
then next thing you know, it
s
like a bait shop or whatever,
because that is high density. I
understand the high density
area stops right there. So
we
re right on the border. Maps
also do not show that it is the
entrance for southbound False
Creek. And the off ramp of
House Creek on Harper Street.
There
s two streets that Harbor
Street does not have a direct
intersection. Do not meet up.
So it
s an offset intersection.
That
s where the light is. All
the residents that live in that
neighborhood cannot leave the
neighborhood except for through
that light. There
s no turning
on that light. You already
discussed about how much
traffic is. It? It
s almost an
access to that area. The other
street comes down that borders
that house is, um, political
drive, which is my street, and
I cannot leave my neighborhood
going on with Gail because the
traffic is such so backed up
there. There
s, you know, one
thing that goes east on Country
Club Road, one lane that goes
west on Country Road. There
s a
turning point in the middle.
That turning lane is often
backed up between, um, Arbor
Street and the street exits all
the way down past Colonial
Drive. So you cannot exit
Brookdale Drive going either
way because there
s turning
there that is hacked. Also, if
I wanted to go across Country
Club Road straight to
Cloverdale, the other north
side of Cloverdale, there is no
way to do that through the
traffic there. Again, I totally
understand that somebody wants
to put an office there. I think
that there
s a lot of office
space throughout the city that
you could find to pursue that.
Um, we are talking about that.
We need housing. So for people
to live in. So I think that
it
s been a house for since the
40s, it should continue to be a
house that is right at the
border of the. I
m sorry, I
m
not familiar with the terms,
but it
s right at the border of
where you
re going to stop the
density of business on country
road going forward on the, you
know, going into like across
our street, into the. That they
would never put that into. So
thank you for your time. Thank
you for all your services. Um,
and I apologize because, um,
that I wasn
t at the previous
meetings, but I have called
every day. As soon as the sign
went up, I called. I
ve tried
to be as civically engaged as
possible. I went around and
surveyed my neighbors as much
as possible about the traffic
and about the situation. Um,
but I just I find that it
s
just excessive to to make this
decision in favor of that. And
thank you for your time.
Appreciate you listening to me.
Thank you very much. Anyone
else for the opposition? Yes,
sir.
I live in Cliff Moore across
the street. Uh, at the time of
this Planning Board hearing, I
was actually living in Ardmore.
So my first knowledge of this
was the letter I got. Say, I
live with within 500ft. And to
be adhering tonight. Uh, I
talked to planning about this
and my concern is, is not what
we
re being told is going to be
there. But in answer to my
question, yes, the House can be
torn down and an office built,
and that office can be 40ft
high. So my concern is not
necessarily what is being
proposed, but the potential of
what this is resolved can
happen. Thank you.
Thank you sir. Anyone else for
the opposition? Seeing anyone,
in the proponents, you can have
three minutes for any rebuttal
you
d like to present.
Um, I wanted to mention
something a little bit ago. I
know there are some concerns
about traffic, but one of the
things that made me think about
it, uh, I just received a
letter, um, maybe two weeks ago
about the going to tear the
bridge down, the one that are
concerning about it. And for
that, maybe I don
t know if
they
re going to do remodels
for the bridge. They
re going
to be make the bridge more, I
mean, concerned, I mean, do
something to remove to do that
traffic more easy.
Okay. The bridge over the
river.
Yeah. The one they saw scream..
Right.
Thank you.
And thank you so much for your
help.
Thank you.
Oh my GOD. The address is 3606
Country Club Road.
Okay. Thank you. Ah. Anyone
else on rebuttal? Okay. Thank
you. The opposition would have
three minutes for rebuttal. If
you
d like to add anything else.
Okay. You
re good. There. Okay.
All right. Thank you. I
ll
declare the public hearing
closed. And MISTER Murphy
s
already given basically the
report of the planning board. I
recognize a council member,
Andre Baldwin.
If you don
t mind, I
d like a
couple more questions, if you
don
t mind for MR. Murphy. Yes.
Thank you, sir. MR. Murphy, um,
there were a couple of things I
would like to just kind of make
sure that we
re clear on, um,
if this if this, this rezoning
goes through, um, the the
there
s a possibility of
allowing this to be a house
with a business attached to it.
Is that correct?
Let me make sure I understand
what you
re asking. Could could
it be used jointly as a
residence in an office?
Yes. Okay. And from the
conversation that I
ve had with
the person who
s making that
proposal, that is what is being
proposed. Okay, um, and then
there was a question about if
this if this goes through
building it one day, turning it
into a larger office space, if
this if this does go through,
if there was proposed, if they
wanted to make it a larger
office space, it would have to
come back to be rezoned. Is
that correct?
Incorrect.
Okay. Please can you expand
that.
Because it
s, it
s a as long as
they are not changing the uses.
In other words, if this were to
get approved tonight, they
ve
asked for offices, adult
daycare or home, adult daycare
center, child care home drop in
single family residential. As
long as it
s one of those uses.
There
s nothing that requires
that building to stay there. So
if this were approved tonight
and they move in there and they
have an office for several
years and then decide, hey, you
know, I think we could do a
bigger office. And they tear
the building down and build a
two three story office,
assuming they could fill in a
lot with the setbacks, they
could do that, and it would not
have to come back before this
board because it
s a limited
use request, not a special use
request that ties it to a site
plan, a specific development
approval. That
s that
s not
what this does. This is limited
use. So you
re just looking at
the uses.
Okay. Thank you. Okay. Um,
let
s get the right one. Well,
I don
t know the deal. Uh, I
guess I
ll go ahead. I move for
approval of one. The statement
of consistency for the move,
the approval of this item. And
two, 3693.
Thank you. Is there a second?
Second. Second. Counselor.
Scipio. Councilmember Clark and
Councilmember Joyner. Yes. I am
the COUNCILMAN Across the
street. I don
t have any
trouble. If someone wanted to
use the house as an office, but
if it was me, I would have put
restrictions on what you could
do. Uh, this is a third of an
acre. I don
t know how big an
office building you could put
in. Raleigh just did away with
all the parking requirements.
So, um, since there are not any
restrictions, you could tear it
down and put up a larger office
building. I will have to vote
no. That
s where. Joyner.
Thank you. Mayor. I, um, I
really feel that in most cases,
someone should be able to do
what they want to do with their
property. But in a residential
neighborhood, and as the woman
said, uh, we are strapped for
spaces to put housing. And
under the original idea of a
plan for this property, it
would be great. Um, because it
could be a resident and an
office. But that
s no
guarantee. Five years, five
months or 50 years. But the
thing that we know, five
months, five years or 50 is
that we need housing. So for
that, as much as I believe
entrepreneurship is a a
stronghold and something that
needs to be, I would have to
vote no for this.
Okay. Thank you very much. Just
do we have a motion to approve
the rezoning? All those in
favor of the rezoning, please
vote yes. Anyone opposed? Vote
no. Motion passes 5 to 3. Five
in favor of three. Opposed.
Thank you. Councilmember Bone.
All right. Item g ten.
Item g ten. Public hearing and
consideration of a zoning
petition of Andrea Adams
Strickland w 3694 from Rs 12 to
hbl properties located on North
on the northeast intersection
of University Parkway and Laura
Avenue, containing
approximately 0.9 acres.
Located in the northeast Ward.
Thank you. Is there anyone in
the chamber who is opposed to
this rezoning? See no one. I
ll
declare the public hearing
closed and recognized.
Councilmember Burke.
I move for the approval of one.
The statement of consistency
for the approval of this item.
And two w-3694.
Second second by Mayor Pro Tem
Adams. Any discussion questions?
No. Those opposed the motion.
Please indicate by voting yes.
Anyone opposed? Vote no. And
that is unanimous. Thank you.
Councilmember Burke. Item g 11.
Item g 11 public hearing and
Consideration of an Elected
Body. Special Use Permit
petition of w Sanders, Moseley
and Elizabeth Moseley. W 3691.
Property is located on the west
side of Chatham Road, north of
Buxton Street, containing
approximately 1.93 acres.
Northwest Ward.
Thank you. As mentioned, this
is a public hearing regarding
the petitioner
s application
for a special use permit for
the establishment of an outdoor
enclosure for a kennel, indoor
use, and a g1 zoning district.
The process of approving the
issuance of a special use
permit is quasi judicial, which
requires speakers for this item
to speak under oath. Speakers
should also rely only on their
own information, and not based
on remarks on what someone else
has said or knows the applicant
or other witnesses have the
right to ask questions of each
other. All testimony and
evidence relate must relate to
the four findings of fact that
the Council must make as it
relates to this quasi judicial
hearing. Council is prohibited
from considering opinion
testimony from non-expert
Witnesses, in particular
testimony as to how the
proposed use would impact the
value of neighboring
properties. Additionally,
counsel must only consider
evidence provided at the
hearing. Communications with
members of the City Council
outside of the hearing are
prohibited and must be
disclosed if. The four findings
of fact are going to be shown
on the screen here in a moment.
I think. Um, the process
requires that the City council
issue a special permit only
when it is able to make an
affirmative finding. As to each
of the four findings. The
applicant has the burden of
proof as to the second and
third findings. The opposition
has the burden of proof with
respect to the first and fourth
finding. Uh, anyone who wishes
to speak on this item should
come forward right now and be
sworn in.
Do I come up now? Yes.
All opposition..
Well, anyone that
s taking
opposition.
Opposition?
Yes, everybody. That
s.
So you all can maybe all share.
Yeah. Yeah. Well. Okay. What?
Can you hold that? Um.
City clerk.
Left hand on the Bible?
Yes. Oh, there we go. We get
everybody.
He
s an attorney. He doesn
t
have to be sworn.
Okay.
All right.
So do you solemnly swear or
affirm that the statements that
you are about to make are the
truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth, so help
you GOD?
I do.
All right.
All right. Thank you very much.
Council members, I
d asked at
this point if any of you had
any ex-parte communications on
this item, and if if so, would
you disclose it? Councilmember
Hall?
Um, thank you, Mayor Jones.
I did.
Receive an email on Friday,
AUGUST the 14th, 2026 at 4:21
P.M. I am happy to share that
email for the record. Um, I did
not respond to the email, but,
um, I need to disclose it based
off of what you just read. So
I
m happy to read the the email
in its entirety. City attorney,
if you would like me to or just
to note, um, who the email was
from and the date and time
spent.
Um, Councilmember Hall, if you
could just, um, summarize the
email and then give it to the
clerk for the record.
Um, I think that would be
sufficient.
Okay. Um, so I did receive an
email from a constituent, uh, a
resident of the northwest Ward.
Um, Frank Frye, on Friday,
AUGUST 14th at 4:21 P.M.. Um,
wanting to express his
opposition to the outdoor
kennel proposal at 740 Chatham
Road. Uh, and that he knows
several property owners on West
End Boulevard overlooking the
site, uh, who also oppose the
proposed use.
Okay. Matter of record. Thank
you. And Councillor Warner.
Thank you. Mayor. Um, before,
uh, council meeting started
this evening, I did encounter
and speak cordially with one of
the residents of that area who
is here for, uh, to oppose it.
We did not have a conversation
about it. Um, I was told why
they were here. I acknowledged
that, and we moved on.
Okay. Thank you. COUNCILMAN
Clark. I go to church with the
petitioner. Petitioner,
whatever, but he and I have not
discussed it. Thank you for it.
All right, we
ll move forward
then. Um, Councilor Murphy, you
want to Council member MR.
Murphy? We have. You take a pay
cut.
Oh, yeah.
See that for it, please?
Yes. Uh, the this is a request
to, uh, for a special use
permit for 1.93 acres located
on the west side of the Chatham
Road, north of Buxton Street,
and again located in the
northwest ward. It
s an elected
body. Special use permit for
the establishment of the
outdoor enclosure. Enclosure
for a kennel, indoor use in gis
zoning district. And I want to
make that distinction because a
kennel indoor use is allowed in
gi zoning by right. Uh, but
there there
s a proposal for an
outdoor run as part of the
indoor kennel. And that
s what
requires the special use
permit. So this is not a
rezoning. It
s a special use
permit for the establishment of
the outdoor kennel with outdoor
run as part of the kennel. I
m
not going to go over the
findings again. I will get to
those at the conclusion. Uh,
again, we treat this similar to
a rezoning case. So we do kind
of show you the property in its
situation. On the growth
management area plan map. It is
located within gma two, in the
urban neighborhoods just on the
fringe of gma one, but it is
located within gma two, which
is urban neighborhoods. This is
a subject property highlighted
in yellow. Again, you do see it
is on the north side of where
West End Boulevard. Kind of,
uh, traverses the area. Uh, it
is on the edge of the Ho
district, but not in the Ho
district. Chatham Road is a
road that kind of transitions
from, uh, I think Crystal
towers and the, um, substation.
And it kind of goes into the
traditional industrial area to
the north there along Northwest
Boulevard, you have the Heinz
plant there on the right. Uh,
this was an old industrial
building. Its last use that we
have recorded as an approved
use was as a church, probably
in the in the 2000 through the
early 20 tens. I
m not sure if
it
s been vacant, how long it
s
been vacant, but it had been
used as a church. But again,
you do see there is a a lot of
various zoning classifications
in the area. But again, this is
on ge General Industrial. The
aerial photo there again you
see the um the area primarily
residential to the south and
southwest, uh, industrial and
uh, redevelopment of previously
used industrial areas there on
to the north, uh, on the west
side of Chatham Road. Again,
you see, there is an existing
building here. You
ll see those
in the site, photos. Uh, this
is the subject property shown
on the south central
Winston-Salem area Plan update.
It does recognize this again as
an institutional use, because
whenever the plan was done, at
least probably 11 years ago,
this was still being used as a
church, even though it was
zoned industrial. But again, it
is adjacent to an extensive
area zoned for light industrial
and general industrial. Uh,
this is looking south along
Chatham Road. The subject
property is to the right. You
do see the special use permit
sign posted there along Chatham
Road in the background. There
you see the Mac and the Winston
Tower building. You don
t
really see Crystal towers from
here, but it is just up the
hill. Uh, this is looking north
along Chatham Road. The subject
property is to the left. You
see the railroad? Um, they
re
about the middle of the image.
You see the railroad crossing
on Chatham Road? Um, the
signage, uh, this is behind the
building in question. This is
the location of the proposed
outdoor enclosure. Again, this
is an existing building, zoned
industrial allows the use. But
this is where the outdoor
kennel would take place on the
backside of that building. The
outdoor enclosure. Um, this is
looking south from the outdoor
enclosure. Uh, looking into the
West End neighborhood on top of
the hill. So again, they
re
single family homes up there
that would look down onto the
rear of this project and
property. Uh, this is looking
southeast from the back of the
paved area. Enclosure would be
on the left side of the image.
And again, the West End
Historic District is on top of
the hill. And this is just
looking at the main parking
area there on the south side of
that existing industrial
building. But that
s where the
hill is. That goes up to the
west end. Uh, this is a site
plan. Uh, again, it
s basically
most of it is cleaning the site
up and re utilizing the
existing facility, there MAY be
a slight expansion of the
parking on that south side. I
will let the, uh, petitioner
and, uh, folks representing the
petitioner speak to that. I
can
t 100% say whether or not
this is all existing parking on
that south side or not. You do
see some, I believe that
s some
proposed asphalt. Uh, excuse
me? Concrete walkways. And then
you do see the proposed outdoor
enclosure labeled there on the
right side of that building.
It
s a 5100 square foot
enclosure, along with some
fencing and other things, uh,
specified by the Udo. Again,
there are, um, uh, does show,
uh, maintaining the existing
vegetation. There isn
t a
requirement for a buffer yard
in between industrial zoning
and residential zoning. Uh, so
again, they can get credit for
existing vegetation and
supplement that as they need to.
And looking at those findings
that were mentioned before the
hearing, uh, the first finding
is that the use would not
materially endanger the public
health or safety if located,
were proposed and developed,
according to the application
and plan, as submitted and
approved. In response to that,
staff says that yes, this can
be found. The subject request
would not materially endanger
the public health or safety due
to relatively low traffic
generation, use of an existing
building and access points, and
compliance with operational
standards for an indoor kennel
with outdoor enclosure use.
Established in section 5.2.4,
one of the Udo. Further, the
presumption is that the use is
permitted in the if. If the use
is permitted in the zoning
district, it is not a threat to
public health or safety unless
proven otherwise. Under two
that the use meets all required
conditions and specifications.
The finding there is. Yes. The
subject request will meet the
minimum requirements of the Udo
and it did go to the Planning
Board. Who did certify that it
does meet those requirements.
And that
ll be on the last
slide. Three that the use will
not substantially injure the
value of adjoining or abutting
property, or that the use is
deemed a public necessity. That
is not something that staff has
the expertise to testify on.
Uh, so and again, that
s one of
the findings. That is the
burden of proof originally lies
with the petitioner, and I
believe they
d have some
information that would speak to
that. Uh, so there is no
finding from a staff level for
that finding. And then finally
the fourth finding that
location, character and
character of the use, if
developed according to the
application and plan submitted
and approved, will be in
harmony with the area in which
it is to be located and in
general conformity with for
2045. From a staff perspective,
we find that this that this
finding can be met. The request
will allow the reuse of an
existing vacant building in a
zoning district, and is
generally consistent with the
industrial character of the
surrounding area. The proposed
outdoor enclosure is located
behind. The existing building
includes buffering elements
intended to mitigate visual and
auditory impacts on nearby
residential properties. The
request would support the
redevelopment of an
underutilized industrial site,
consistent with the general
recommendations of forward
2045, and again, the
presumption is that if the use
is permitted in the zoning
district, it is in harmony with
the area. Unless proven
otherwise. As far as the
recommendation, I
ve gone over
the four findings the
establishment of an outdoor
enclosure for a kennel, indoor
use requires the issuance of a
special use permit from the
elected body, uh, following a
site plan review by the
planning Board for the gi
zoning district, the Planning
Board did determine that the
site plan meets all Udo
requirements. On JUNE 11th of
2026, so the next steps are to
hold a public hearing, which
we
re doing now, and then make
a determination regarding those
four findings. And based on
that either issue or deny the
special use permit request. And
with that, I
m glad to answer
any questions.
Questions. MR. Murphy? Yeah.
Councilmember Clark.
This is currently zoned gi.
Correct.
Could you give some examples of
what could be built in a gi
zoning?
Uh, manufacturing a
manufacturing, b manufacturing
c, manufacturing c allows the
highest that
s the most intense
form of manufacturing. You
could have an abattoir, which
is essentially a like a
meatpacking plant. Uh, you
could do all kinds of things
under that existing gi zoning.
If you hold on a second, I
ll
actually get to the table of
permitted uses. I
m not sure if
that
s enough. Um, as far as
the heavy industrial type uses,
um, manufacturing a, b, c
asphalt and concrete plant, um,
borrow site, hazardous waste
management, meatpacking plant,
a mine and quarry, a recycling
plant, storage and salvage
yard.
Thank you.
And I
ve never heard of that
word.
You used an abattoir?
Yeah.
I
ve learned.
It
s not used much anymore.
Slaughterhouse. Customer.
Recipient?
Yes.
MR. Murphy? Um, the. First
requirement said something
about the planning board. There
was no material endangerment to
public.
Health or safety.
How did the planning.
Board?
This is staff
s analysis. I
know the planning board. The
planning board only certifies
whether or not it meets you
their requirements. Remember,
we can only hold one public
hearing. So this is the only
place where the public hearing
is held.
So.
Giving the staff
s assessment,
how did you look at audible? Uh,
situations with dogs barking?
And again.
You
re actually making the
findings of fact. We
re just
providing supporting
documentation and our
recommendation on how we feel
like it would meet that. Again,
we have noise ordinances. We
have things in place that kind
of address noise. There
s not
anything specific related to a
kennel indoor, except for the
fact that they have to get a
special use permit from the
elected body.
But this is the outdoor kennel.
This is for outdoor runs. It
s
not an outdoor kennel.
Okay.
So basically there are
provisions for an outdoor run
that you have to have. Staff
has to be out there with the
dogs. It
s not just a free for
all running around. Now
obviously, you know again I
m
not sure what the business
model is. You can hear from the
folks whenever they speak. I
mean, you know, if you have 25,
30 dogs, I
m sure you
re going
to have some barking in some
play and those kind of things.
But again, it
s not like these
animals would be left
unattended.
That
s what I was thinking
about. They were going to be
left outside, but that
s not
the case. Thank you.
All right. Thank you. We
ll now
hear from the proponents. You
d
have 15 minutes for your
presentation if you state your
name and address.
MR. Mayor, mayor pro tem and
city council. I am Brad
Friesen. I
m an attorney at
Bell, Davis and Pit, and I
represent, uh, Kelsey and Eddie
Dolan and Kelsey
s non-profit
corporation that she formed
Stella
s Rescue, Inc. They have
a contract to purchase this
property from MR. Mosley, who
s
also here. Uh, I would like to
start, um, and, MR. Mayor,
would it be possible to, as a
to meet the evidentiary
requirements? I would like to
question a few questions from
MR. Murphy and then MISS Dolan,
and then we have Luke Dickey
here from Stonewall to talk
about the site plan. And Rick
Brandt, an appraiser. And i
have a good outline. I can move
through this pretty quickly,
but I MAY need more time. Uh,
would it be possible to ask for
more time?
If necessary, we
d ask you to
move as quickly as possible.
Okay. Thank you, MR. Murphy,
can I first ask you a couple of
questions about the zoning and
the nature of the site? First
of all, you mentioned that it
was previously a warehouse
building or had a warehouse
use. Uh, could it again be used
without any permit again for
warehousing and trucking under
its current zoning?
To answer the question, I have
to go into a little bit of
detail. I can
t sit here and
testify. I know there was a
church in it. I can
t testify
whether or not the church ever
got the proper permits, that
the church got the proper
permits, they would probably
there would probably have to be
a internal submission to the
inspections division to issue a
permit if the use had in fact
changed. But that
s not
anything that would require any
entitlements other than coming
to our department to get them.
It wouldn
t need to be rezoned.
Correct.
And there are hourly
limitations on the use of the
outdoor enclosure we
re seeking
here under the Udo. Is that
correct? And those are from 8
A.M. To 6 P.M..
Before I answer in the
affirmative, I want to look.
Yes, that sounds correct.
That
s correct.
And while you have the Udo
there, it
s also a requirement
of the Udo that no animals can
be left unattended in the
outdoor enclosure. Correct?
That
s correct. And animals
cannot be housed outdoors.
They
re correct.
That
s correct.
And so adding an outdoor run
for a kennel use would not
increase the the population of
animals that could already be
housed there because they can
t
be housed inutdoor
enclosure. Right.
Correct.
And also as a matter of, uh,
requirements under the Udo, the
animal waste. And that MAY be
deposited in the outdoor
enclosure has to be managed on
a daily basis, correct.
I can
t testify to whether that
being true. That could be
within the city code. I don
t
see it in the Udo. If you see
it in there, if you
ll point it
out to me, I
ll be glad to
testify to that fact.
Scoop to poop. I got two dogs.
Oh.
I just see.
It..
Correct. You are correct. It
does say with animal waste
being managed daily as per
applicable sanitation codes and
ordinances, which again I think
refers back to the city code.
Uh, thank you sir. You
mentioned that the residential
property adjacent to this site
are and I can
t remember your
exact words, but the staff
report notes that they are
significantly up uphill from
the this property. Right?
Correct.
So in terms of water runoff, we
would not have water running
from this enclosure. Appeal to
the residential areas. That
right.
Correct.
There was the staff report on
page five at the very bottom in
the analysis of conformity to
plans and planning issues,
notes that the existing
vegetation, steep topography,
placement of the enclosure area
behind the existing building
and the volunteered additional
plantings will attenuate
offsite impacts of the request.
And that is something that the
the planning staff found to be
the c case. Is that right?
That
s correct.
And the mentioned it
s
mentioned there that there are
volunteered additional
plantings. The planning staff
asked for three additional
deciduous trees to be planted
near the outdoor enclosure. And
the and the applicant has
agreed to that, right?
That
s correct.
And those trees would be
between where the outdoor
enclosure is and the
residential property.
On the south side, correct.
On the south side. MR. Murphy,
if the outdoor enclosure is
being used in violation of the
Udo, let
s say with dogs out at
10:00 at night, that is
something that the city could
enforce. Correct?
Correct. That would be a zoning
violation that would be handled
by the zoning enforcement
staff.
MR. Mayor, I would like the
entire staff report admitted
in, uh, as evidence in the
applicant
s case in this permit
hearing.
Brennan.
Uh, the next witness will be
Luke Dickey from Kimball.
So if you would give your name
and address, please.
Good evening. Luke Dickey with
Stem associates, 601 North
Trade Street, suite 200. MRS..
027101.
Thank you, MR. Dickey.
See?
MR. Murphy, do we have slides
that we could?
You want the PowerPoint or do
you want the overhead? Okay,
let
s got it. All right. Cuz I
know you said you might need
the overhead and.
That might be problematic.
But we can figure.
Yeah. Thank you very much.
Tonight I
m just going to kind
of walk you through the site
plan that we prepared. Um,
utilizing of course, the
information we get from the
Unified Development Ordinance
under the Udo Kier code,
working with planning staff.
And we prepare these plans that
get submitted for their review.
It goes to the departmental
review. And then we address
those comments. And then that
goes into the course into the
planning board for
recommendation. And then that
comes before you this evening,
uh, up on the screen right
here, right now is kind of the
way that just general
highlighted areas. The building
is the main white block that
s
in the middle. Uh, the blue is
the enclosure area on the back
side. Um, highlighted in a
little bit of a darker green is
the three trees that were
conditioned as part of that to
be planted on the south side of
the site, uh, the parking lot
then is located that will be
expanded to meet the other
requirements for the size of
the kennel. Uh, so that gets
expanded a little bit more
towards the south side of the
site. Uh, we designated the
better stands of trees on the
side. Those are in the darker
green corners there for the
tree safe area that meets the
requirements of that as well.
With the expansion of the
parking lot, there will be a
street yard requirement. Then
of course along Chatham Road
that would be provided to meet
the requirements. From that
standpoint, we are showing a
dumpster at the end of that
parking lot. That meets the
requirements of being 50 foot
setback from any residential
zoning lot. And then also,
we
ve expanded a little bit of
the parking there on the north
side, but that
s up against the
gi zoning. And there will be a
street yard required there as
well. Um, on the overall site
plan, you can see the slope,
the dark, the dashed lines that
are in between the building and
the residence to the south.
That is the topography. Each
one of those that represents a
two foot step. From that
standpoint, if you can go to
the next slide. Oh, just real
quick. And the closure is
there
s one permitted, uh, per
the ordinance. And that
s the
one we
re providing. Uh, the
has to meet the required
building setback requirements,
which is 40ft from any
residential zoning. We are 40ft
away from that at the nearest
corner. Um, and then I already
mentioned the recommended
screening. That was a condition
for the three trees there on
the south side. Next slide
please. This one is just kind
of going against talk about the
significant elevation that was
mentioned in the staff report.
Uh, the approximate elevation
of the enclosure there you can
see is at 860. Uh, the parking
lot is around 856. Uh, this
residences to the south is 902.
Uh, so roughly 42ft above, uh,
roughly the enclosure and also
900. The nearest one is there
to the east, and that is at an
874. So it is 14ft. But that
s
also where we
re going to have
a remaining vegetation. And
that will be supplemented to
from a meeting the buffer
requirement. So that would be
addition of evergreen shrubs
and evergreen plantings to make
sure we meet the code
requirements in that location.
Next slide please. Uh, this is
again kind of similar to the
images that MR. Murphy had
shown earlier. This is where
the parking lot is. That will
be expanded there to the left.
And you can see kind of the
slope condition there. So
because of the slope condition
and where it
s tucked in,
that
ll be not very visible at
all from the neighbors in that
location. Next slide please.
Uh, then this is just kind of
come up along the side of the
building. You can see that the
topography there gets even
steeper. Um, it was covered in
kudzu at this point. But again,
that
s just kind of
representing the base of the 40
foot grade change between the
residences to the south and
then where the enclosure is.
Next slide. Uh, this is looking
them directly south from the
enclosure. So basically at the
northwest corner of the
building, which will be the
furthest location of the
enclosure, uh, looking directly
south. Next slide. Uh, they
re
highlighting the screen in the
shadows is the closest
residential unit to this
enclosure, looking directly to
the to the south. Um, it
s kind
of covered there, but again, we
will plant the trees on that
southern side as they grow up.
Would be kind of more dense
when you
re looking down into
the site than that would start
to be covered there from that
location. Next slide. And then
this is directly, directly to
the west. So there
s again the
residents in the shadows, uh,
in the backside over there. And
those trees are going to remain
in that location. I
m sure
we
re going to clean up the
understory scrub there, but
then they
ll all be replanted
with make sure we meet the
ordinance requirements of the
full screen. Uh, use of the the
site with the evergreen
plantings and the evergreen
shrubs there to create a visual
break. In addition, of course,
the the enclosure will have a
five foot opaque fence all the
way around it. So anything
that
s within the enclosure
won
t be visible from that
standpoint. And that concludes
my presentation.
Thank you, MR. Dickie. Anyone
else?
Three minutes.
MR. Mayor, our next witness is
Kelsey Dolan, who is one of the
folks who has the property
under contract to purchase.
We
ve been referring to the
word kennel during this
application. The intended use
for this property is actually
for an animal rescue. There
s
not a separate category for
that in our Udo. However, the
closest one is kennel, which is
why that
s that
s why the
application is for a kennel
enclosure. Kelsey, could you
introduce yourself and explain
the intended use for this
property?
So I
m Kelsey Dolan I
m already
tearing up. It
s kind of
surreal. I
m super excited. I
don
t know how many people show
up excited about this. Um, but
it is for a rescue and it is
all from an animal, a dog that
we had named Stella, who was
super special. Um, she kind of
found me and she was great.
She, I will say, under oath. I
think she spoke English. And so
we named it for her. She was
great. And I think that the
biggest part of this is really
the location itself is making
that possible, making that
accessible for everyone. You
know, we very well could have
gone somewhere else and built a
space and built an enclosure
and an outdoor run, an outdoor
kennels and space for these
animals. But a big part of this
is really wanting to be part of
the community, part of what is
helping, you know, in the past
to have funded this, um, I love
ever talking. I
m looking. This
is like taking at me. So I
m
going to try not to ever speak.
Um, my great grandfather had a
big hand in developing Winston
and my grandfather after him.
And I want to repurpose what
they did. And as a big tribute
to take that and invest it back
into what made them successful.
And I think that people a lot
of times say, you know, well,
it
d be nice if somebody
invested in us, invested in
where we live and made it a
better place. And that
s really
what this is about. And outdoor
space is because people and
animals both need to be
outside. They need sunlight. It
would not be a very good rescue
and not be very responsible for
us if we just left animals
outside, or if we left them in
their own mess, and if they
made a mess, and if they sink
and if they barked. That said,
I completely understand anyone
that would have concerns around
that. Because if I thought
somebody was going to build
outdoor kennels, just letting
dogs, you know, hunting dogs,
anything like that, they
re
going to sit outside and bark
and make a mess and stink. That
that is not a rescue of which
people would want to come and
adopt animals from. Um, it
s
also not one where people who
might not have the chance to be
exposed to cats and dogs can
have that time. They can go in,
they can spend time with dogs
and cats and volunteer and kind
of just bring the community
together. I think you saw the
photos. What we intend to do, I
mean, even from the pictures,
is to clean that space up, to
take a space that
s not being
used to not waste the resources
to build a totally new one, but
to use what Winston already has
and to make it something nice
and to make it something that
people and animals alike can
benefit from. And in a time
where there
s a 43% increase in
economical surrenders at
shelters, this is something
that the city needs. Um.
Let me ask you a couple.
Yeah. Sorry. I
m gonna keep it
stolen.
Are you a current resident of
Winston-Salem?
Yes.
What
s your address?
325 Mendota Drive.
And in 2025, you formed a
non-profit corporation for this
purpose? Yes.
Are you. Are you.
Do you currently have
experience in sheltering rescue
animals?
Yes.
Can you talk about the the
whether there is a public need
for more animal shelter space
in Winston-Salem, for example,
do you get calls from people
needing to find places for
their rescue animals?
Yes.
Um, we get hundreds of calls
and specifically emails. I will
say cats are infinitely worse
in the moment than dogs. I will
give you a timeline, but there
was a time when animal control
and humane side of in the same
building, and we
ve been very
limited on resources.
Since then.
Sorry. Um, and one just very
quick fact is that cat math is
if you have one male and one
female cat over the course of
one year, worst case scenario
can create 400. So when you
hear cat colonies and you hear
things like this, it is a much
bigger issue that
s going to
get much bigger over the years.
We
re not asking for resources.
We are trying to give resources
to the city. We are asking for
funding. We
re trying to fund
ourselves to help this out.
Councillor Ward five minutes.
Be.
Um. Rick Brandt is here. He
s
an appraiser with Loftus
Companies. He has seven slides
to explain his paired sales
analysis. On the question of
whether there is harm to the
adjoining properties. Uh, we
ll
try to do it in five minutes.
Okay. That
d be great.
Thanks.
Thank you.
Let
s see. Do we have. There
s
another set of slides for MR.
Brandt.
There we go.
Uh, could you introduce
yourself and explain your
qualifications?
Uh, my name is Rick Brandt. I
m
an appraiser here with Loftus
Appraisal Company in
Winston-Salem. Our office on
6160 Campbell Forest Drive in
Winston-Salem. I
m an ma. I,
uh, Appraisal Institute member.
Uh, I
ve been appraising here
within the city for over 20
years.
Thank you. If you
ll go to.
And with respect to the
question of whether there would
be substantial harm to the
value of adjoining or adjacent
properties, if an outdoor
kennel, an outdoor, an outdoor
enclosure, uh, if an if an
outdoor enclosure were approved
by the special use permit, did
you do any analysis?
I did, I did a paired sales
study of comparable, uh, homes
located in close proximity to
kennels. The first one was a
development called Dorchester,
uh, in Northern David County.
Uh, if you look up there on the
map, uh, you can see the
location of no goats, no glory.
Uh, kennel. And, uh, the dot is
more or less over there.
Outdoor enclosure. Uh, that
outdoor enclosure is located,
uh, very close to the subject
property. If you go to the next
slide, I can give you it
s
160ft from the subject property
to the kennel, uh, to the
outdoor enclosure of that
kennel. Uh, the way you do a
paired sales study is you look
for other homes that are highly
similar, that are a further
distance away, that should not
be impacted in any way by the
presence of that outdoor
kennel. Uh, and in this case, I
found two homes on that same
street that were very similar.
The first one was 400ft away.
Uh, and the way you proceed
with the paired sales study is
just like when you purchase a
home, you make adjustments for
all the things that are
dissimilar between the two
homes to arrive at a adjusted
price per square foot, if that
adjusted price per square foot
were drastically, um, higher
than what the subject sold for,
that would tell you that
there
s some impairment with
the subject that we did not
consider. In this case, that
would be the presence of the
kennel. Uh, in this case, the
first comparable came in at
$126 per square foot. The
subject property sold for 151,
indicating that there was no
impairment present. Uh, if you
go to the next slide, uh,
that
s comparable to it was
located 800ft away. Um, and it
was a new home. Uh, if you look
at it, the adjusted price per
square foot was $119 per square
foot, as opposed to the
subject, which sold for 151. So
again, there is no indication
that there
s any detrimental
condition created by the
presence of the outdoor, uh,
dog enclosure. Uh, go to the
next slide. This is the second
study I conducted. This is in
Oak Valley Country Club in
advance. Uh, if you look at the
top there, hound housing,
doggie daycare, uh, has an
enclosure that
s directly
adjacent to, uh, homes in Oak
Valley Country Club. Uh, the
subject property, uh, is
located on the other side of
the fence from the doggie
daycare. If you
ll flip to the
next slide. Um, there you can
see that it
s 650ft from the
house to the area of the
enclosure. Uh, there I looked
at two homes also. Um, after
adjustments, the first one came
in at $163.16 as opposed to the
subject at 164 30. So that
indicates that it was, um, you
know, very similar indicated
price to what it actually sold
for. And there was no
detrimental condition there.
Uh, if you go to comparable
number two, uh, again, um, that
one was 2000ft away. Uh, on
that one, the only thing I
would note there is that part
of the reason the adjusted
sales price is so low is that
when backed up to the 15th
fairway, and we use paired
sales to make adjustments for
things that have golf views,
and that required a much larger
adjustment than the other one.
So, uh, you notice the gross
adjustments are fairly large
there. But again, it, uh,
indicated no detrimental
condition at all for the
subject.
And so after doing that
analysis and you
re familiar
with the subject site that we
have, the application on
tonight and understanding how
that site is situated based on
your analysis of other.
Sales community.
What is your conclusion about
whether the proposed outdoor
enclosure would substantially
harm values of adjoining
property?
I can
t find any evidence that
it would.
Sir.
Um, MR. Mayor, those are all of
our witnesses. If it would help
the council, uh, at the end of
the opposition I have, I could
present a very brief summation
addressing the evidence on each
of these factors. Go ahead. You
would like me to proceed now.
Thank you. On the factor of
whether the outdoor enclosure
would not materially endanger
the public health or safety if
located, were proposed and
developed. According to the
application and the plan. And
if the plan is submitted and
and approved, I would point out
that it is already zoned
General Industrial, which the
staff report points out is the
most intense industrial
district allowed in the zoning
ordinance. There are many, much
more disruptive uses that this
property could be put to
without any additional permits
from the City council. Uh, as
you heard from MR. Murphy, the
use of the outdoor enclosure is
limited by your ordinance. The
city
s ordinance. Um, there
s
no evidence that
s been
submitted so far that the use
of the enclosure would produce
noise of any particular level.
The ordinance addresses this
and limits the hours of
operation from 8 A.M. To 6
P.M.. And the animals cannot be
out in the outdoor enclosure
unattended. Uh, also, with
respect to public health and
safety, the udl requires that
the waste be addressed on a
daily basis and the outdoor
enclosure would not actually
increase the amount of waste
being generated here, because
no animals can be housed out
there. The, uh, there is a
significant elevation
difference between the
adjoining properties, creating
a natural barrier. The
applicant applicant has agreed
to plant additional trees
between where the outdoor
enclosure area is and the
adjacent residential
properties, which will also
promote health and safety and
harmony. As shown on the site,
plan, uh, this the outdoor
enclosure will not add
impervious surface. Um. The
staff report notes that is not
expected to generate traffic
problems. And MISS Dolan, uh,
testified about the community
need for this. You just heard
from Rick Brandt on the
question of substantial injury
to the adjoining properties.
And then as for the location
and whether the location and
character of the use, if
developed according to the
application and plan submitted,
would be in harmony with the
area and in conformity with the
comprehensive plan. Uh, by law,
there
s a presumption that if
this is available in the Udo
with a special use permit, it
is in harmony with the area.
Also, this is a general
industrial area. There is
adjoining, general industrial
use currently to the north and
then across Chatham to the
east. It
s a two acre site.
We
re not trying to squeeze
this in on a on a small home
site. There is a natural
separation which is noted on
the site plan and in the staff
report that
s created by the
significant difference in
elevation and the existing
vegetation buffer. Uh, it will
not be visible from the street.
The two additional conditions
that have been requested and
agreed to for this permit are
limitation on the size of the
sign, and also the three
additional trees. I think those
both would promote harmony of
this additional enclosure with
the surrounding area. Uh, and
then with respect to forward
2045, the staff report notes
that conformity can be found.
Uh, I would note that the site
plan shows the addition of
sidewalks on this site, which
would enhance pedestrian
access, at least on this
particular lot, which is one
factor, a goal of the
comprehensive plan it would be
putting to use a vacant
property that
s been long
vacant, uh, which also would
promote a goal of the
comprehensive plan. And I would
argue that it will improve the
aesthetic appearance of this
site. And the comprehensive
plan also has, as a goal,
cleaner and more attractive
neighborhoods. And so I would
urge the council to find that
the four factors have been
proven. Thank you.
Thank you very much. All right.
Excuse me. We will now hear
from the opposition. If you
would come forward and state
your name and address. For the
record, we have a number of
individuals signed up for.
Sure.
If I MAY, before.
I run out of oxygen. Um, Tony
Gaines, I live at, uh, 151 West
End Boulevard. Uh, prior to
that, I lived at 173 and 175
West End or, excuse me, 175 and
177 West End Boulevard. All of
those properties are right
above. I am the houses, right
above their proposed spot.
Noise travels, folks. Uh, there
is a huge embankment, and I bet
y
all will improve the
neighborhood tremendously. But
noise travels. If there
s dogs
there, dogs are going to bark.
Rescues bark. I
ve got a
90
pitbull I rescued last year.
Prior to that, I had a
80
German Shepherd I rescued or
they rescued me. But sound
travels and regardless of how
many employees you have
handling these dogs, it
s going
to be noisy. So yeah, there
will be noise. You can only
control. You
ve been around
dogs, you understand? So that
s
my concern. Yeah, I was really,
really opposed to the idea of
dogs being there and making all
the noise they could make. But
yeah, I realize that it could
be a whole lot worse. Uh, Heinz
dying fishing, for instance,
has ruined my $80,000 beautiful
pickup truck with acid rain.
But that
s part of doing a
business in Winston-Salem. Uh,
so my challenge is that if
there
s anything else that
could be done to buffer the
noise because the hill is not
going to stop the noise. I
don
t know if a noise reducing
wall would help, but that
s my
concern. I
ve got two duplexes
right up on that hill that I
ran out. I would hate for my
tenants to say, we can
t live
here because of the dog noise.
So that
s my concern. And I was
able to pay my property taxes
the other day because of my
tenants. I don
t want that to
change. So that
s about all I
have to say.
Thank you. Thank you, MISS
Gaines. All right, next.
Hello again.
I feel like we were just here.
Um, yeah. My name is Chris
Krajewski. I live at 811 North
Spring Street. Um, I
m the
building. I
m the residence
directly behind. Um, the the
Chatham building. Um, the
pictures that were shown that
I
m going off script here, the
pictures that were shown
earlier, full summer, all the
greens there, uh, during the,
uh, during the winter season,
all that green is gone. We have
a direct shot. You know, our
our yard is the one that backs
right up to, um, that lot. Um,
and I understand MR. Mosley has
been trying to unload this
property for a long time, and
I. And I do feel for him, and
it does sound like the
proponents made a great case.
And I think if it does go
through, I think they
re going
to do the right thing. That
being said, sound travels as
much as I want to. As much as I
want to support this. Um, this
is the second time that I
ve
been here. Um, pushing back
against a dog kennel in 2010,
Carolina Pet Place wanted the
same exact thing, but. But in
the building next door, um, an
indoor kennel with an outdoor
dog space. During the day. At
the time, my daughter and I
went to the Clemens location,
parked about as far away from
the building is where we
thought our house was was, and
we could hear dogs inside very
clearly from that distance. Um,
we as a neighborhood voiced our
opposition, uh, right here in
this room. And, um, the council
sided with us, and and the
planning board denied their
proposal. Um, the argument
against this kennel is the same
as it was against that kennel.
Uh, the proposed site is
surrounded by homes, many like
ours, in the historic West End.
And part of the ambiance of
that neighborhood is the
peacefulness we have in living
in the shadow of a bustling
downtown, but not in it. And a
dog kennel is simply not a good
fit. Even in an area zoned for
commercial use. We
re fine with
the white noise. Hum. I don
t
get the acid rain, but we do
get the white noise hum of the
machinery from a Heinz dine
finishing plant. Um, and that
s
fine because it is sort of
white noise, but dogs barking
is not that. Um, I just feel
like it
s going to create
tremendous noise pollution. Not
to I, not to mention the smell.
I think you made a good case
that that
s not going to be the
worst part, but it
s just as
far as being conducive to
living, to residential living
in this, you know, peaceful
enclave that is the West End.
Um, and it
s hard to say. You
know, I do take a little bit of
umbrage on the the fact that it
didn
t show property values
dropping in those certain
cases, but it
s hard to put a
price on quality of life, and
it
s hard to put the burden on
us to prove after the fact that
it did. In fact, drop our house
prices, prices, because it
feels like that kennel is much
closer than the ones in the um,
in the examples. Um, so why is.
It.
Is, you know, here we go again.
I, we were just here we, you
know, you guys opposed a
nightclub that was proposed at
the same place due to the noise
it would create the noise that
goes straight at us, rises up
the hill. So whether it
s cars,
people, music or dogs barking,
and it just feels like there
are other industrial sites in
Winston that don
t back up to,
uh, residential neighborhoods
with families, some with babies
and young children. Um, some of
the young families up on West
End Boulevard and many of whom,
like us that have dogs, will no
doubt join in the barking. If
there
s barking out, hear my
dogs barking inside or barking
out in the backyard. Um, it
just feels like it will be
relentless at some point. And
we spent a lot of time in our
backyard year round. It just
feels like it would be
detrimental to our home life.
So I respectfully ask that you
please protect the integrity of
this historic neighborhood. Um,
as it was in Winston-Salem,
Council has done in prior cases
and deny this proposal. Thank
you.
Cynthia Kelly.
My name is Cynthia Kelly. I own
three residential properties in
the immediate area of the
proposed commercial dog kennel,
two of them directly adjoin the
proposed kennel kennel property
along the rear property lines,
and the third is approximately
300 yards down the hill. Uh, of
course, it
s the historic
neighborhood of West End. I
m
not opposed to progress or
development. I welcome thought
development, thoughtful
development. I
m undoubtedly a
bigger supporter of small
businesses and also animals.
She gave a great animal
testimony. I
m simply asking
that the development occur in a
way that is responsible and
sustainable for all parties. My
noise concern is that we don
t
know what the noise is going to
be, which they
ve mentioned.
Um, that that picture showed a
lot of kudzu on that hill.
Faith Kaufman, who sent you all
a letter, sold me to, um, empty
lots. And when you look at that
kudzu, the reason why there
s
so much kudzu is because some
of that we
re about to clear,
we
ve had it surveyed. We
ve
got an engineer coming in. I
m
building, uh, two residential
homes on those properties
because we need housing. And
part of that engineering
includes changing the elevation
on that. So some of their
argument about elevation will
be irrelevant over the next
series of months as we start
developing those properties.
And so those properties too,
will be looking directly at
that, at that building. Uh, one
of the buildings will be in the
two of them will be in the
historic overlay. One will be
on 819 with West seventh
Street, which will be a
triplex. And as you know, the
plans for historic overlay are
extreme. We want to make sure
in our peers want to make sure
that it aligns with the
community and the regulations
that have already been said.
And so if the barking, the odor
waste, and I know you all
mentioned runoff wasn
t going
to be a problem, we
ve all
walked outside of an apartment
complex or been in a park where
you could, gosh, I smell dog.
And that
s not even a kennel.
That
s just where people are
walking their dogs and they so
happen to relieve themselves.
So there will definitely be
those things. Other North
Carolina communities recognize
this concern. Wake County
specifically identifies noise,
odor, insects and traffic as
potential impacts associated
with kennels, and they require
a setback to be of at least
100ft, not the 50ft that you
all have been describing.
Excuse me. Um, I noticed the
housing prices on this sheet.
We
re not 650ft from the
kennel. We
re one foot from
their property line. So I don
t
know that that
s relevant
either. If he doesn
t have an
example of a property. That
s
right adjacent, and I have to
right adjacent to that
particular property line. So I
don
t believe homeowners should
effectively become the
monitoring. Excuse me. And the
enforcement system for
commercial operation. The
better approach is to determine
compatibility before the use is
established. There should be
clear, objective, site specific
evidence regarding this noise,
including relevant distance,
including relevant elevation
and also naming. Not only that,
the dogs will be attended. All
dogs that are attended still
bark, so the unattended dog
park to me is also irrelevant.
But that being said, I
respectfully ask that you deny
or at minimum defer approval
until these site specific
issues are independently
evaluated and made part of the
record.
Thank you, Frank fry. MR.
Mayor.
Mayor Pro Tem and council
members. My name is Frank fry.
I live at 850 Chatham Road and,
uh. Initially I
d like to say
to MR. Sanders and his son, Ben
that I
m not always against
you, you know, but seems like
was here last AUGUST and my
concerns have already been
stated. But Chris, the first
speaker or second, actually, it
turned out. But I just want to
give a little background on the
the West End, the the Crystal
tower is part of it, which had
a resurgence back in around
1973. It was pretty much on the
on the ropes. There were three
major houses that were brought
in from one from where? Uh, 500
West fifth Street is now, the
old in a gone another from
where wsj s used to be on fifth
Street as well. And the third
was actually beside on the
underground lot as well. But
tremendous amount of city
involvement in that
neighborhood. And to bring it
around. And it
s got many
challenges. Uh, noise being the
primary one and this, this all
the houses up on Western
Boulevard in a different manner
than the houses that have been
talked about, that are close to
other kennels. These houses has
been stated before, 40ft high,
overlooking the dog park. So or
dog kennel run, whatever it is,
opportunity to bark is what it
is. So these these neighbors
are looking down on it, which
makes it much different than.
The examples the appraiser used.
Uh, the attorney asked that the
planning staff report be
entered in as evidence that
this is not a not a harmful
thing. Uh, it
s looking through
the, the report and there are
several things that I, you
know, just being picky. Um. Uh,
let
s see. The large trees that
are going to be planted. For
this, um. What I
d like to say
about Chatham Road, I own the
building that we were in. Now,
since 2001. And in that time
period. Especially in 2001,
next door to our property was
the old Chatham manufacturing
mill. It
s now apartments which
are, you know, really nice. So
that that changed from an
underutilized building that the
the roof was collapsing and it
was pretty much it was sort of
nip and tuck whether it would
just survive or not. And now
it
s contributing member to the
neighborhood and to the city on
the. No. On the noise issue, I
looked up dog barks compared to
a Harley Davidson. And they
re
about equal for a standard
Harley Davidson at idle and a
Harley Davidson accelerating or
going at road speed. So you can
imagine. That that
s a noise
that people could really not be
happy with. There are 224 cars,
I believe. Was the estimate the
planning staff thought for this
increase. Um, over the past two
and a half years, I
ve walked
that strip of Chatham past by
this building a thousand times
in one direction, a thousand
times in another. At eight in
the morning. It
s beautifully
quiet. Sundays, Saturdays it
s
quiet. It won
t be quiet in the
future if this goes through and
they
re residential, there are
a couple of watts on Chatham.
There was a duplex that was
torn down, and it
s now part of
the Parks Family Trust. They
plan to put another residential
building on that. There
s
another house just up the
street from that. That
s I
think comes up in SEPTEMBER to
be torn down and a new
structure put up. So there is a
a trend in that area towards
residential, not towards
industrial. And sad to say, I
didn
t get involved in the
comprehensive plan. The last
one, 2011, I think, he said.
But the industrial use that is
there currently should have had
a good look. You know, it
s a.
The highest form. Lots, lots of
negative things can go in site
would prohibit a lot of that.
But. I think the comprehensive
plan was a little off in that
same area that I walk with my
dog, which is uh, goes up
through Jackson Park, which I
Think there
s a plan to get rid
of the park and make little
boutiques or something there. I
don
t know, but there are about
40 acres of developable land in
that area, which is a lot of
land, a lot of opportunity for
housing or mixed use or
something. That land has been
intentionally held for. Ever
since Marshall Street was
expanded. So I feel like I feel
like that area is on the verge
of being something better than
it is now. And I think this
would be a setback. And I thank
you for your time.
Thank you, MR. Friar. All
right. We
ll now go back to the
proponents. You have three
minutes or so for any rebuttal
you
d like to present.
Well, just with respect to the
note in the staff report about
traffic that was looking at a
change from a church used to a
kennel, use the actual analysis
that would be relevant would be
the traffic difference between
an indoor kennel use and one
with an outdoor enclosure.
Because this is already zoned
as general industrial. Um, Rick
Brandt did present to parent
sales showing properties
adjacent to kennels that have
outdoor enclosures so that that
is directly relevant. And I
would ask for his slides and
also Luke Dickie slides to be
included in the evidence for
this case. The question before
the council is a little
different than with a rezoning.
Special use permit has to be
based on competent material
evidence, including expert
evidence on the question of
value and also question of
traffic for that matter. Um, to
prove the factors. And then the
question for y
all is whether
that evidence has been
presented. Um, this is not and
I
m I
m telling you things
you
ve already known and
studied. It
s a quasi judicial
hearing. It
s not a question of
legislative discretion tonight.
It
s a question of judging the
evidence before you on the
factors in the ordinance that
the city has already enacted.
We
ve presented competent
evidence on each one of those.
Um, and I think this will be a
way of improving the
neighborhood and performing a
service for the community. And
I would urge you to please, uh,
approve the permit. Thank you.
Thank you. Sir. The. Yes, sir.
If you
d like to add to that.
Yes, sir. 11 seconds. MAY I use
it? Absolutely. My name is
Sanders Mosley. I have.
Owned the building since 1994.
Uh, we had a distribution
company for medical uniforms
that went out of business. We
have since rented to a number
of places of business. Excuse
me. I
m looking at the clock
closely. The way it is
currently zoned. I have had two
unsolicited inquiries since I
m
into this contract for trucking
distribution companies, and
they can truck into and out of
there 24 hours a day with no
additional zoning. And those
tractor trailers wanted to park
in the back lot. And there is
nothing in the zoning, is my
understanding, that would
prohibit them from doing that.
So in my opinion, this is a
good neighbor use of my
property.
Thank you. Thank you, MISTER
Mosley. All right. Thank you.
Would the opposition. I
d like
to have three minutes of
rebuttal.
One second.
Yes. If you give your name and
address for the record, please.
Hi.
My name is Sophia Nazareth. I
live at 816 West eighth Street,
which is in 500ft of the back
lot, where they
re going to
have their outdoor kennel. Um,
I have a dog. I
m not anti
animal or anti rescue at all.
Um, but I am a little bit
concerned about this changing
the amount of noise in the
neighborhood. And I don
t think
that was addressed like
adequately to me. Um, we all
know that amplifiers glide up,
noise travels up. Um, one dog
barks in our neighborhood. All
the dogs start barking in our
neighborhood. We have on eighth
Street, where I am two
industrial companies. They both
are pretty quiet. So it
s not
that we do not live with
industry. We do. And it gets
along fine with us. Um, I think
this is different. So I would
just recommend that without
really understanding how the
sound will travel, that it we
don
t want to have to be
calling for animal noises every
day because dogs are barking.
And I do fear that that would
be what happens. We have all
these dogs barking. It
s 15
minutes. After 15 minutes. You
can call for a violation of
noise. I think that that is
possibly what would happen
here. All right. Thank you.
Thank you. Anyone else? Yes,
ma
am.
Understanding that this is what
you are calling a quasi
judicial process and rebuttal
to the argument. I
d like to
name three things that were
irrelevant to this argument.
One was the elevation. Because
the elevation will change
within the next 12 months. Once
I get my engineering. Um,
redrawn to, that means that the
noise that he
s talking about
is going to change. And then
the third thing is going to be
the the runoff of the water
will then also impact the
neighboring, uh, apartments and
also houses that are going to
be built in the area.
Thank you. Anyone else for the
opposition? All right. Seeing
no one, I
ll declare the public
hearing closed and would
recognize Councilmember Hall.
Thank you. Mayor Jones. Uh,
thank you for everybody
tonight. Thank you to my
colleagues pressing through,
um, with this hearing. Um, we
heard a lot of concerns
tonight. Um, from the
proponents and the opponents of
this, uh, special use permit.
And I would just like to state
that I would hope that, um, if
this is approved tonight, that
the proponents would as best as
possible, um, remember all of
the concerns that were lifted
tonight, particularly from the
opponents, as best they can and
consider these concerns moving
forward with any possible
development on the site. Um,
and just for clarity, since
this is a, um, quasi quasi
judicial act. Um, I am
confirming, uh, the four
findings of fact for granting a
special use permit. Um, and
Mayor Jones, if, um, if I am
incorrect, I would like for
Director Murphy to say no,
you
re not right. If that is
the case. Um, for findings of
fact, um, that staff in
particular, um, also went
through. And their report is,
um, public health and safety
that, um, the use will not
materially endanger the public
health or safety if located
where the proposed and
developed, um, and developed um
application plan as submitted
and approved. I think we do
have a slide for that. Um, but
I want to make sure that that
is the case. And then also the
other finding of fact, um, that
we were to be listening for
tonight was that this use meets
all required conditions and
specifications, and that would
be in alignment to just
essentially ordinance
compliance. And then the other
thing, um, the for the other
finding effect, um, would be
that this use as presented will
not substantially, um, endure
the value of adjoining or
abutting property value. So
basically we
re talking about
property values not being, um,
endangered. And then the other,
um, finding of fact that the
location and the character of
the proposed use, if it
s
developed according to the
application and the plan that
was submitted, um, would be in
harmony with the area and then
also to be in conformity with
the for 2045.
Councilmember Hall, I
m.
Sorry, Councilmember Hall, I
will say that as to findings
one, two, and four, that is the
fact that is what staff
believes, that those three
findings have been met in
regards to, um, this project
staff does not have the
technical expertise to address,
uh, finding number three,
dealing with property values.
Uh, that
s something that you
have to, uh, you know, again,
the whole thing is based on the
hearing staff put forward our
thoughts on the three findings,
but you have to make an
independent decision related to
the property values based on
what you heard. As far as the
testimony was tonight.
Thank you. I appreciate that.
So let that be noted. For the
record. Um, and with that, uh,
and everything that I heard
tonight and based off of those
findings, I moved that based
upon the application, the
testimony and the evidence
presented at this public
hearing. That one the City
Council affirmed the four
findings as required by section
3.2.13 e6a of the Unified
Development Ordinances, and two.
The City Council approved the
site plan that is included with
the Special Use Permit request,
along with the conditions
included in the Special Use
Permit and Staff Report, and
three the City Council approved
w-3, six, seven, six and issued
a special use permit to
Concrete Supply Company, llc
for establishment of an indoor
enclosure for outdoor enclosure
for a kennel, indoor use in g-1
zoning district. Yes city.
Is there a second to that
motion?
Just a moment. Um, Mayor Jones,
I believe.
Just minute.
Councilor. Yes, sir.
Just a minute. Have you
finished your total motion?
Yes. Is there a problem with
the motion?
Yes, sir. Yes, sir.
Um, I just wanted.
To correct that. I believe that
we, um, that it
s, um, three
six, nine one.
Um. And I think you said. Three
seven something. I apologize
for that. And then, um, there
was something.
Related to an llc.
A concrete company. I don
t
think that
s a part of the
issue.
It sounds like the sample
motion MAY have been barred
from the last time we had a
special use permit, which was
for expansion of an asphalt and
concrete plant on Lowry Street.
The proper case number is w
3691, and this would be for an
outdoor enclosure for a kennel,
indoor use.
Yes.
So if you could just amend your
motion.
For to to correct that for the
record, I.
Will. And thank you Mayor
Jones. I move that based upon
the application, testimony and
evidence presented at the
public hearing that one the
City Council affirmed the four
findings as required by section
3.2.13 e6a of the Unified
Development Ordinances, and
two. The City Council approved
the site plan that is included
with this special use permit
request, along with the
conditions included in the
Special Use Permit and Staff
Report, and three the City
Council approved w dash 3691
and issue a special use permit
for establishment of an outdoor
enclosure for a kennel, indoor
use in a g one zoning district.
Very good. Now, is there a
second? Second. Second by
Councilmember Clark. Any
further discussion questions?
Uh, customer Clark, for the
record, I do have two dogs.
I do.
Have two indoor kennels with
runs. To the best of my
knowledge, in the West ward,
one is behind Duke
s
restaurant, which is, I think
it
s an adoption type place.
Uh, I eat at Duke
s
periodically. I get my car
washed next door to that one
regularly. I have never smelled
anything, nor I have I. Have I
ever heard a dog bark there? I
have another indoor kennel
which does have an outdoor run
further out. Country club, uh,
kind of near where the driving
range is way out there. I
ve
never gotten a complaint on it.
I have two dog runs at
Meadowlark School. I used to
take my dogs there a while
back. Uh, I
ve never gotten a
complaint there about barking.
I have said on this council for
25 years, and I had probably
count on one hand the number of
calls I
ve got on barking dogs.
Uh, but that
s not why I would
like to speak. This property
has the most broadest, worst
zoning you can imagine. General
industrial. You mentioned a
cement plant, asphalt plants.
We have a hard time getting
those cited because they are
not good neighbors. You could
have a lot of things, and I
simply would suggest, be
careful what you ask for. And I
will be supporting the motion.
Very good. Oh, do you have a
motion to approve this item?
All those in favor, please
indicate by voting yes. Anyone
opposed? Vote no. My computer
s
down. The motion passes in
favor of seven. In favor one
opposed. Councilmember Burke
voting no. Thank you very much.
Councilmember Hall of love
verbiage. There. All right, so
now go to the public comment
period, which is the time that
the City Council now set aside
for citizens to voice their
opinions on matters that are
germane to city government when
the comment period is called,
each speaker will be given
three minutes for presentation
and the total amount of the
public comment period will be
30 minutes. Uh, do we have the
list of speakers?
Uh.
Okay. First person signed up as
Benjamin Gaither. If you would
please state your name and
address. For the record, MR.
Gaither.
Um.
Hello, my name is Benjamin
Gaither. Uh, my address is 281
Village Creek Circle,
Winston-Salem. And, uh, I
m a
student of Winston-Salem State
University. Uh, today was the
first day of classes, and I
parked my car. I noticed
something different this
semester. Uh, Alper. Cameras,
uh, from Flock Safety, uh, had
been added to the entrances and
exits. Uh, so instead of
studying between classes, I
chose to write the words that
you
re hearing. Now, I
m not
here to tell you to remove
them. I would work with the
university for something like
that. Uh, no. I am here to tell
you what countless Americans
and listeners Elamites have
been going through over the
past year. Right now, you can
go to the morgue and see where
the alp is in our community.
Are. I noticed that many of
them were placed in parking
lots, like Hanes Mall or Home
Depot. Uh, even some in
apartment complexes or a
s. And
I think that
s a little bit
messed up. Um, I understand
that these APIs are paid for by
private groups and companies.
Uh, I would not say I
m against
the use of cameras to keep
parking lots peaceful. Uh, what
I am against is much nearer and
significantly more irking, um,
being a computer science major,
I know a few things about cyber
security. When you conne a
device to the internet, you
allow the ability for your
device to be hacked by someone
else. Far cameras have no real
vulnerabilities and information
collected from them can be
shared with other police
departments across the United
States with no requirements for
warrants. This semester, when I
should be in classes, listening
to instructors, I will be
worried about who
s watching
me. My peers will worry about
their license plates being
misread and police officers
claiming that they have a
stolen vehicle. Uh, most
importantly, everyone will
wonder what will happen next.
Uh, axon is currently
developing Taser armed drones
that are for active shooters.
Um, situations on public
schools. Will my university
decide to implement these
measures for our safety? Uh,
but if Fox decides to track
more than just cars in the
future, right. Uh, will my
university have a choice in
that? Who watches the watchers
with a closed circuit
television camera system? None
of the cameras.
Are open to.
Yeah.
Uh, Olivia Doyle.
Hello, y
all.
Aren
t you excited to be going
home soon? Um. I Doyle, 1/12
Street. So hideout is here
because we still have not been
invited. Well, actually, we
just got an invitation
informally earlier today, but
we haven
t been invited to
present our legal defense of
our proposal to stop local
cannabis arrests. We are still
asking for the meeting that
Mayor Pro Tem Adams, uh,
promised to get our ordinance
through the General Government
Committee. But while we are
waiting for that, we would like
to deliver the legal analysis
that we have received from
civil rights litigator Jaylen
Miller of Emancipate North
Carolina. Attorney Miller has
concluded, as you should have
read in her email earlier
today, that Dillon
s rule is
not a reasonable barrier to
mandatory sign release or
lowest law enforcement
priority. Attorney Miller could
not find an instance in which
the city engaged with our legal
argument, supporting these
proposed policies, but she did
find two instances where a
manager paid an attorney.
French challenged our proposal
again without responding
directly to our defense. Using
North Carolina General Statute
58 302 by citing Dillon
s Rule
as though Dillon
s Rule is this
impenetrable obstacle to
preventing arrests for
misdemeanor cannabis. Cannabis
possession and Winston. It is
not. In fact, according to her
analysis, Dillon
s rule might
not even apply in North
Carolina, particularly in this
instance. So we are asking you
still to pass two policies
mandatory sign release and
lowest level enforcement
priority for misdemeanor
possession, because as of right
now, without those
decriminalization measures,
black and Latino residents are
being stopped and incarcerated
more often for things like
this. This is a hemp derived
blunt that I bought a couple
hours ago, and Council member
Clark
s ward, just across the
street from a church. And if if
I take it outside the tube, I
walk because I know the smell
gives some people a headache.
But if I take it outside of the
tube, I assure you you would
not be able to tell the
difference between this and
illegal cannabis. It
s a blunt.
So unless we want to continue
the racist governance that was
set up by the likes of City
Manager, Gold or Mayor
Cavanaugh, we need to prevent
the racially disproportionate
enforcement for possessing
things that look and smell like
this. Despite Chief Pence
claims that the weed in
Winston-Salem is not mellowing
people out, I can assure you
that this blunt is not going to
make me go on a rampage. In
fact, this one is labeled as an
indica strain, and that usually
just makes me go to sleep. So
once again, we are asking that
our ordinance proposal be
pushed through the General
Government Committee. I also
want to follow up with um,
Councilmember Andrew Bone about
the meeting that was proposed
earlier today and formally. And
we are asking this with the
understanding that Dillon
s
rule is not a barrier to our
proposed ordinance passage. I
m
going to leave a copy, a couple
copies of Attorney Miller
s
analysis, as well as the
ordinance proposal that we
ve
sent y
all a couple of times,
just in case you need it to
read over again. Thank you.
Thank you. Matthew Mares,
please.
Getting sleepy back there. Hey,
Matthew.
My name is Matthew Mayers. I
live at two, 844 Wesleyan Lane.
I wanted to, um, first of all,
uh, call out some really
positive things that have
happened recently, echoing one
one thing MR. Pate was talking
about earlier, the incredible
response by utilities when the
water main broke, that was that
was like superhuman. Um, and,
uh, another I just have to go
on record for your amusement
saying, I
m so glad the fire
department is driving their
SUVs more, um, probably not
something you expected me to
say. Driving your suv more
makes me happy. But if it
s as
opposed to driving a big fire
engine, that
s a great thing.
And especially if it
s less
than, respond better to, uh,
emergency situations. But I
m
really here to offer kind of
like a public service
announcement to you all. Pretty
soon, I think you
re going to
be getting the report on your
property. Um, evaluation of the
the state of the property
inventory for the city. And
after that, I hope making some
decisions about how you want to
improve those properties in
lots of ways, and I hope,
including the monitoring and
efficiency of energy use in
them. So the public service
announcement part is to let you
know that among the tools in
your in your toolbox going
forward, on top of things like,
you know, bond issues and all
of that, um, if you haven
t
seen a couple of a couple of
weeks ago in Raleigh, they
passed, uh, Senate Bill 445,
which was a regulatory reform
bill, and a part of it, um, was
to streamline the process of
letting government and entities
enter into, uh, guaranteed
energy savings contracts. And
if you probably are somewhat
familiar with those, but again,
for public record, it allows
city governments or other
entities to contract with a
third party. Um, not have to
put forth a bunch of cash
necessarily, and start to see
savings from, uh, from energy
efficiency right away. Is it as
good a deal, not a dollar for
dollar. But you don
t have to
come up with a cash. So in that
sense, it can be a real unlock
for moving forward on things.
Um, and since I have 48
seconds, I
ll also mention
House Bill 162 also passed,
which means no more parking
limits, no more parking
minimums, I should say. Which I
know that
s somewhat
controversial, but think of how
marvelous that
s going to be
for opening up housing in the
city. I know there will be
people who are a little upset,
but this is a good thing for,
um, improving density and
fighting against sprawl. So
hooray for that and I hope you
have a good night. I think I
m
last, so y
all get to go home.
Good night.
Thank you, MR. Mares. Is there
anyone else who wants to speak
during the public comment
period? Yes, ma
am.
I have to put my shoes on.
Hi, all. My name is Marilyn
Mendiola dela Cruz. I live in
Mebane and I don
t have a home
address. Um, I
m here because I
stand in solidarity and in full
support with hate out
Winston-Salem fair Justice and
Safety Act, which I try and
see, supports a youth policy
that did decriminalize a small
amount of marijuana possession
by minors through sight and
release, and diversion, while
keeping criminal penalties for
selling, trafficking,
distribution, driving and
adults supplying marijuana to
minors. North Carolina General
statute statute 90-95 currently
makes possession of schedule
six controlled substance, a
class three misdemeanor with
marijuana penalties increasing
by quantity. Possession over
the half one half ounce becomes
a class one misdemeanor, and
possession over one and one
half ounce becomes class one
felony. We should not treat
teenagers caught with small
personal use amount the same
way that we treat someone
selling drugs to children. The
policy should be simple seize
the substance issue site,
notify parent guardian when
appropriate. Connect the young
person to education,
assessment, counseling,
diversion and keep them out of
detention. Unnecessary and
unnecessary criminal processing
the person selling it is a
different enforcement problem.
North Carolina already
recognizes that youth justice
can use interventions other
than incarceration under
chapter seven seven. Be
juvenile courts can impose
counseling, community service,
substance abuse programming,
supervision, curfews as
conditions of juvenile
dispositions. There is also
useful historical comparison
with tobacco. In 1998, the cdc
documented the 42 states had
laws prohibiting minors from
purchasing, possessing, or
prohibiting selling or
distribution of tobacco to
minors. North Carolina
specifically prohibits minors
from purchasing tobacco and
classified the violation as a
class two misdemeanor. The
policy lesson is that we can
regulate youth access and hold
sellers accountable without
making criminalization of the
young person the primary
intervention. Um, I support
narrowly written safety focus.
I support. Sorry, I need
reading glasses. North Carolina
general statute. Um. 153a-142
expressly authorizes counties
to impose a curfew on anyone 18
and under 18 in North Carolina,
law also provides municipal
authority for juvenile curfews.
But the curfew has to be
written around safety, not
punishment. There should be
explicit exceptions for work,
school, religious services,
organized activities, Medicare,
medical care, transportation,
or even coming out to city
council to be able to speak
because, you know, it goes
after nine. Um, and not turning
ordinary presence in public
into unnecessary,
disproportionately racially
targeted arrest or criminal
records. Our standards should
be simple hold adults, dealers,
traffickers accountable, yada
yada yada and not putting our
kids into the criminal justice
pipeline.
Thank you.
Anyone else for the public
comment? Period.
I would like to say something.
Um, my name is Sarah Girard.
Uh, 216 West Banner Avenue. I
also came to support hate outs,
um, initiatives on
decriminalization. I
m very
concerned about our federal
government and the fact that we
have both white supremacist and
white nationalists in office
right now, and the trickle down
of that to us. Uh, I finally,
like I can only I think a lot
of globally and nationally and
internationally, but locally is
the only place I can really
have enough impact. And. I
m
just very concerned about that.
And I want to try to get
support from my local officials
and protecting the community.
So in things like not
overpolicing, um, people for
things that are not really
crimes, I mean, we, we have
well, I can we
ve sorry, i
m a
little nervous. I didn
t put
anything to speak. So, um, but
things like, uh, not how are we
going to protect our citizens
in general? And with things
like the, um, Ice raids and ice
stops there? Um, we
ve had our
sheriff say we can
t do
anything because this is, you
know, this is federal, but who
will protect our citizens when
you have federal officers doing
things that are illegal? So I
just wanted to speak in
solidarity with hate out. And
also, um, say that I plan to
attend meetings more regularly
because I want to, um, have our
local officials protecting our
citizens. Thank you.
Thank you. And someone else
wanted to speak.
Hello? Hello, I
m Charlotte, I
live in Greensboro. Although
some of you will have seen me
around a fair bit. Uh, Olivia
already covered everything
pretty thoroughly, so I just
want to say that, uh, I also
stand in solidarity with hate
out and, uh, support the
Winston-Salem Fair Justice and
Public Safety Act.
Thank you. Thank you very much.
Anyone else during the public
comment.
Period?
All right. See you then. When
I
ll close the public comment
period. We do have the need to
go into a closed session. MR..
Tim Adams has a motion, I
believe. Councilmember Clark, I
make a comment before we do
that brief comment. I was at a
meeting the other day. I don
t
remember which one, but the
police chief was there and I
specifically asked the
question, how many cameras does
the city, Winston-Salem have?
And he said none. No, you asked
it. I asked.
If.
But anyway, we both asked it.
But that
s what he said. All
right. The answer was the same.
All right.
Thank you.
All around..
It must have been different,
sir. We
re not talking back and
forth in the audience. Mayor
Pro tem.
Yes. I move.
For the city council to go into
closed session pursuant to
North Carolina General Statute
143318.1186 to conduct the City
Manager
s annual performance
evaluation.
Thank you. Second.
Second.
All in favor of the motion,
please say aye.
Aye, aye.
That
s unanimous. We
re now
going in closed session.
And I took my two big. He could
have been, uh.
But the meeting I might have.
Made this.
We can
t talk about.
Um. Oh, and.
Then I told myself.
That I probably should walk
through. Thank you.
But I.
The.
Yeah.
That. Let
s try. The.
Yeah.
Okay. Okay. So that. Yeah. But
they they said they were.
Yeah. I remember those two
days. I couldn
t remember.
What the.
Other one was. And I was a. But
I guess. Yeah, yeah I can get
my emails out. Yeah. Well thank
you all for all of you on your
work. I appreciate it. It
s
been a long. Yeah, I
m sure
they
re not all easy. Thank you.
Exactly. Bye. It
s so cold. Yes.
I wish I knew somewhere welcome.
Is there a motion to end the. I
moved.
So moved.
By Hall. Second by. Yeah. All
in favor of any closed session,
please say aye. Aye aye. Motion
to adjourn. Motion by Mayor Pro
Tem, seconded by.
Several.
Thank you. Going all those in
favor of the motion to adjourn?
Say aye. Aye, aye. We
re
adjourned.
Let me ask you a the motion.