[0:24] i don
[0:25] t think we do the other
[0:30] one, but there might be. But I.
[0:32] Thank you. So we
[0:32] ll build it
[0:58] after you. Yes. Thank.
[1:00] And after the first talk, a
[1:01] little.
[1:01] Something.
[1:03] The Joyner Press Council member
[1:04] Clark here.
[1:05] Council member.
[1:06] Bohlen here.
[1:08] Council member. Sisco. Mayor
[1:09] pro tem. Adams. Thank you.
[1:10] Council member. Taylor.
[1:11] Present.
[1:14] Council member. Hall and
[1:17] council member. Burke.
[1:18] Thank you very much. Please
[1:20] join the City council meeting
[1:33] in a moment of silence. Thank
[1:35] you so much. Would you please
[1:36] join the City Council in me in
[1:40] the Pledge of Allegiance? I
[1:42] pledge allegiance to the flag
[1:45] of the United States of America.
[1:48] To the body which is state, one
[1:51] nation under GOD, indivisible,
[1:53] with liberty and justice for
[1:58] all. Thank you very much. Our
[1:59] sergeant at arms tonight is
[2:01] Lieutenant Langdon. Thank you
[2:02] for being with us tonight. And
[2:04] our fire marshals. Peacock to
[2:06] be with us. Before we get into
[2:07] the city manager
[2:08] s report
[2:10] tonight. Obviously, we have a
[2:11] very special group of
[2:13] individuals who are with us
[2:15] tonight. Might recall that on
[2:17] the on the JULY 4th at the
[2:20] stadium, we recognized number
[2:21] of centurions from our
[2:22] community here, those who are
[2:25] 100 years old or older. And
[2:26] instead we wanted to actually
[2:28] bring them or ask them to come
[2:30] down to City Hall tonight. So
[2:33] we could recognize them in
[2:34] person as part of us
[2:36] celebrating our 250th
[2:38] anniversary as a country. I
[2:38] can
[2:40] t think of a better way to
[2:42] do that than to recognize those
[2:43] individuals who have made it a
[2:45] special part of our of our
[2:47] city. So we do have a number
[2:49] of, of of folks here tonight.
[2:49] I
[2:50] m going to call your names.
[2:52] And if you would just raise
[2:54] your hand and wave at us there,
[2:54] and we
[2:55] re going to give you a
[2:59] little gift there. I think, uh,
[3:09] good to be here for so but so.
[3:11] Okay, so our first one is Ben
[3:14] Meeks. Briggs. Briggs, thank
[3:21] you for being with. All right.
[3:21] Briggs won
[3:22] t mind me saying
[3:22] he
[3:24] s a 104 years old. All right.
[4:52] Elizabeth Linsky, there she is,
[5:12] right there. Althea McIntyre.
[5:26] Annie Smith. And Lena Wardlow.
[5:27] We are just delighted to have
[5:29] you with us tonight. And we
[5:29] re
[5:30] delighted that you
[5:30] ve been a
[5:32] part of our community. Thank
[5:35] you for all your wives. Uh,
[5:37] make such a difference. I do
[5:38] want to unfortunately
[5:40] acknowledge that since the JULY
[5:42] 4th event, we have lost two of
[5:45] our sisters. Um, when Robert
[5:47] Lindsay Greer, who was one of
[5:49] our original firefighters on
[5:51] the original African-American
[5:52] firefighters created the fire
[5:55] department, he was 104. And
[5:58] then maybe when we have members
[5:59] of their family and our family
[6:07] here. Where m is to deal with
[6:11] those 127. What a great legacy
[6:12] for our community. We
[6:12] re glad
[6:15] to have you tonight. Uh, uh,
[6:15] we
[6:16] re going to move on with our
[6:17] meeting now, but feel free to
[6:20] stay as long as you like. And
[6:22] feel free to go any time you
[6:24] like as well.
[6:25] You can do whatever they want.
[7:06] Yeah, right. Your prayers. And.
[7:07] I wish.
[7:10] Along highway 93. From her.
[7:11] Mouth. By the time.
[7:38] I just received.
[8:00] A little for a long. Uh, time.
[8:00] It
[8:00] s worth.
[8:04] Every second.
[8:27] I took. Thank you.
[8:29] Of.
[8:44] Of. They were live their life
[8:50] is almost. I will thank you.
[8:52] Everyone of us. So resume the
[9:01] meeting. Uh. Let me. Call on
[9:03] the city manager if you
[9:03] re
[11:24] ready for your, uh. Continuing
[11:25] to be serviced.
[11:26] Uh, until the replacement
[11:28] stickers are received. So, uh,
[11:29] if you
[11:29] re having problem with
[11:31] your red sticker staying on,
[11:32] there is another one coming in
[11:35] that were have asked them to be
[11:36] a little bit more intentional
[11:38] with the adhesive that they put
[11:38] on those.
[11:40] This time.
[11:42] , just before our next meeting,
[11:42] I also want.
[11:43] To.
[11:45] Remind Council and the public
[11:48] that our Wisdom Transit
[11:49] Authority will be implementing
[11:52] the largest service redesign in
[11:54] in a number of years. On AUGUST
[11:56] the 30th, transitioned from
[11:59] primarily 60 minute and waste
[12:01] service to primarily 30 minute
[12:03] service to provide more
[12:05] frequent and convenient transit.
[12:10] Extensive community outreach
[12:11] and public education to help
[12:13] shape, communicate, and service
[12:15] changes. And there will be more
[12:18] information can be found on our.
[12:20] Let me ask transit not call our
[12:26] website about the change. One
[12:28] of the council know the public
[12:29] and we
[12:30] re also starting our
[12:31] annual city of Winston-Salem
[12:33] University program this
[12:35] Thursday, AUGUST 20th, which
[12:37] will run through NOVEMBER 2nd.
[12:39] Council members are welcome to
[12:40] tent sessions. We
[12:42] re excited to
[12:44] have a group of community
[12:45] residents that really want to
[12:47] learn more about the city, city
[12:49] government, and what is offered
[12:50] in our community, so we
[12:50] re
[12:52] excited to talk them starting
[12:55] this Thursday in the
[12:57] construction of the Helen
[12:59] Walking Church, located on
[13:00] Carbon School Road, began in
[13:05] APRIL, is now about 99.5%.
[13:06] Proven. Solution. Boardwalk
[13:08] pedestrian trail, fitness
[13:11] equipment, shade structures,
[13:13] scratch resistant landscaping
[13:16] and completion is expected
[13:18] around the end of SEPTEMBER and
[13:20] the public grant development
[13:26] plan as we get closer to. A
[13:27] want a couple of recognitions?
[13:27] Don
[13:31] t recognize City Manager
[13:33] women who are recently
[13:35] completed the public Executive
[13:37] Leadership Challenge to to the
[13:39] Community School of Government
[13:40] Program Development and
[13:42] leadership collaboration and
[13:44] placemaking skills. Local
[13:46] government effectiveness. So
[13:52] congratulations. Thank. And I
[13:52] m
[13:53] going to actually turn it over
[13:56] to to her right now to our
[13:58] parking.
[14:01] Uh thank you. So we recently
[14:03] for today do general Services
[14:05] Department, which is comprised
[14:07] of our property facilities
[14:09] management and vegetation
[14:11] management, sustainability and
[14:12] our central warehouse. And we
[14:16] just hired a perfect. And so he
[14:20] just started two weeks ago. As
[14:23] the director of departments, he
[14:24] has said it
[14:25] s been more than a
[14:27] decade. Local government
[14:29] leadership with the county
[14:33] since 2012. And now several
[14:41] leaders. Deputy Fletcher, major
[14:49] individuals. In criminal
[14:56] justice. Administration. So I
[14:56] m
[15:07] excited to have. To. For and
[15:27] see.
[15:33] Have the city. Because we want
[15:35] to support it in all others to
[15:39] make public facilities. And our.
[15:45] Come all the things in the past.
[15:52] Help us to second is trying. To
[15:58] just places. With some of our
[16:07] with. That and resources around
[16:16] the policies. First and. 635
[16:26] dash. One elements. 12. Master
[16:31] is expanding how? The council a
[16:36] lot of houses, a lot of
[16:41] housing, stores Council budgets
[16:48] and tuition provisions as human
[16:51] are with the city. On
[16:53] Wednesday, AUGUST 26th, from
[16:56] 930 to 1130 at the Old Town
[16:58] Neighborhood Center at 4550
[17:01] Chaplin Drive. Residents are
[17:02] invited to meet with city staff
[17:04] and community partners, learn
[17:06] about city services, ask
[17:07] questions, share ideas, and
[17:09] discuss issues affecting their
[17:11] neighborhoods, complimentary
[17:12] coffee and refreshments will be
[17:16] provided. And then, at our
[17:18] communities last week,
[17:19] particularly in the public
[17:20] works Committee meeting last
[17:21] last week highlighted the
[17:23] outstanding work across
[17:26] multiple city departments that
[17:28] took place to resolve the a
[17:29] major water main break that
[17:32] occurred at the end of JULY.
[17:32] I
[17:33] d be remiss if I didn
[17:33] t take
[17:35] a moment at this platform to
[17:37] acknowledge the extraordinary
[17:38] around the clock effort of our
[17:40] employees, many of which you
[17:42] are also feeling the impact at
[17:44] their homes on this water
[17:46] outage. Our water main break,
[17:48] whose example our one team
[17:50] approach to city government in
[17:52] action around professionalism,
[17:54] commitment and collaboration of
[17:55] all these individuals working
[17:57] not only with one another but
[17:58] with the county and the
[18:00] community as a whole, including
[18:01] the many organizations and
[18:03] individuals to step up to help
[18:05] those who need it. During this
[18:07] time, the Council is our
[18:08] expression of appreciation for
[18:11] their work on that. And joining
[18:12] me in the spirit of Christmas.
[18:15] Thank you to the public for his
[18:16] patience and for all those who
[18:18] played a hand in taking care of
[18:26] the situation. So thank you. I
[18:27] know you had some of them. Some
[18:29] of them were even much needed
[18:31] break right now from the work
[18:33] that they had on. And then just
[18:35] finally, I wanted to
[18:36] acknowledge the International
[18:38] Theater Festival that was in
[18:40] full spring, actually full
[18:41] swing. What am I going to
[18:43] cover? But the city worked with
[18:44] the festival organizers, hotels
[18:46] and host sites to minimize the
[18:48] impact on the tens of thousands
[18:49] of guests that were in town.
[18:50] For one of our community
[18:52] signature events, the spirit
[18:54] and enthusiasm of the attendees
[18:56] and participants was powerful,
[18:57] and the festival was a true
[18:59] celebration of the arts like
[19:00] culture and the power of
[19:02] community to bring people
[19:04] together to find. The festival
[19:05] featured more than hundred and
[19:06] 20 performances by 30
[19:07] professionals like the
[19:09] companies, many of the
[19:11] performances were sold out,
[19:13] most of them organizers
[19:14] estimate that the weeklong
[19:16] event generated economic impact
[19:19] for dollars. City caused the
[19:21] impact positively impacting
[19:23] hotels, restaurants, retailers,
[19:24] transportation providers, and
[19:26] other local businesses. They do
[19:28] always kind of like always does
[19:30] a fantastic job with this
[19:31] festival together. And I felt
[19:32] like we needed to recognize
[19:36] them for that work. Since and
[19:37] since, unless we
[19:37] re meeting
[19:40] together. So without camera,
[19:40] which.
[19:41] Was a delicious.
[19:43] Display.
[19:45] Good. Thank you very much.
[19:48] Thank you. Have a two honorees.
[19:53] Who have I?
[19:55] Resolution recognizing national
[19:57] emergency Management Awareness
[19:57] Month.
[19:59] Whereas emergencies.
[20:00] And disasters, including
[20:01] natural. Manmade and
[20:02] technological.
[20:04] And occur unexpectedly posing
[20:06] significant threats to life,
[20:08] property and environment. And
[20:10] whereas the Winston-Salem
[20:11] Forsyth County Office.
[20:13] Of Emergency Management, the
[20:15] city of Winston-Salem emergency
[20:17] managers across all sectors,
[20:18] community leaders, the North
[20:20] Carolina Division of Emergency
[20:22] Management, and the Federal
[20:24] Emergency Management Agency,
[20:26] fema dedicate countless hours
[20:27] to developing preparedness,
[20:29] response, recovery, and
[20:31] mitigation programs to protect
[20:33] the lives and property of all
[20:34] persons living in the United
[20:36] States and U.S. Territories.
[20:39] And Whereas, emergency managers
[20:40] across the United States and
[20:42] U.S. Territories are charged
[20:44] with establishing and
[20:46] capabilities necessary to
[20:48] effectively direct, coordinate,
[20:50] and support emergency and
[20:51] disaster response and recovery
[20:53] efforts. And Whereas, the
[20:54] efforts of our nation
[20:55] s
[20:56] emergency managers have helped
[20:58] millions of community members
[20:59] across the United States to
[21:02] cover, rebuild and become more
[21:03] resilient in the face of
[21:05] adversity. Now, therefore, be
[21:07] it resolved, the Mayor and City
[21:08] Council of the city of
[21:10] Winston-Salem hereby recognize
[21:12] the month of AUGUST as National
[21:13] Emergency Management Awareness
[21:15] Month in the city of
[21:16] Winston-Salem, in conjunction
[21:18] with the National Preparedness
[21:20] Month in SEPTEMBER, with the
[21:21] support of the North Carolina
[21:23] Division of Emergency
[21:24] Management, the International
[21:26] Association of Emergency
[21:28] Managers, and the National
[21:29] Emergency Management
[21:31] Association, all U.S.
[21:32] communities are urged to
[21:33] express their sincere
[21:35] appreciation for emergency
[21:37] managers in every sector who
[21:39] work diligently to prepare,
[21:41] protect and serve our cities,
[21:43] counties and states. Tribes,
[21:45] territories, regions and
[21:47] organizations against all
[21:48] hazards and risks.
[21:50] Through motion.
[21:52] MR. Mayor Pro Tem actions by
[21:55] Councilmember all although to
[21:58] say I. A unanimous asked the
[22:00] CHAIRMAN Of the Committee to
[22:02] present us to our Director of
[22:16] Emergency Management to offer.
[22:19] On behalf of our city. We thank
[22:20] you for all of your excellent
[22:22] work that you do in your
[22:25] department. We are excellent
[22:27] because of your diligence, your
[22:31] commitment and all of the time
[22:33] your staff gives. When we have
[22:36] mercy, we thank you. We
[22:52] appreciate you and we are.
[22:53] Thank you, MR. Mayor. Mayor Pro
[22:55] Tem and members of the council
[22:57] for the proclamation. Just very
[22:58] briefly, the Office of
[23:00] Emergency Management. We plan
[23:01] to coordinate our community
[23:03] response to disasters. Large
[23:06] scale emergency, natural avenue
[23:09] and technological development,
[23:11] and major infrastructure. And
[23:13] they occur. We do this by
[23:14] partnering with our local,
[23:17] city, county, regional, state,
[23:19] federal, private and nonprofit,
[23:21] non-governmental organizations.
[23:23] Our office is a very small team
[23:25] of five individuals and self,
[23:27] and we are typically working
[23:28] behind the scenes at public
[23:30] eye. So I think the
[23:32] proclamation excellent where we
[23:34] are now and what our team does
[23:36] and our mission is. And with
[23:37] that, I just want to accept the
[23:38] proclamation on behalf of my
[23:44] teams, recognition. One word.
[23:45] Thank you very much and have
[23:51] you. Thank you, MR.. Going over
[23:53] to fc during the water main
[23:55] crisis, here with full house
[23:59] work. First I will say about
[24:01] the city performance and we are
[24:05] to the beginning. Thank you.
[24:07] Have our needs to.
[24:08] Thank you for resolution
[24:10] honoring the 2026 Winston-Salem
[24:12] Police Department. Citizens
[24:14] Police Academy graduates.
[24:15] Whereas 12 citizens have
[24:16] successfully completed the
[24:18] Winston-Salem Police Department,
[24:21] Citizen Police Academy. Shannon
[24:24] Dula, Antoinette Conrad Montego
[24:27] Davidson, Lacey Dickens,
[24:29] Jocelyn Grace, Leticia Harrison
[24:32] Brooks, Jewett, Judith
[24:34] Renteria, Marion Chantelle,
[24:38] Shante Reynolds, and and Cisco.
[24:41] Ladies. And whereas the course
[24:42] is intended to provide
[24:44] residents with a deeper
[24:45] understanding of the inner
[24:47] workings and complexities of
[24:48] law enforcement and the
[24:49] Winston-Salem Police
[24:51] Department. And Whereas the
[24:54] 2026 Citizens Police Academy
[24:56] has included more than 30 hours
[24:57] of interactive instruction
[24:59] across 13 weeks, giving
[25:00] participants a behind the
[25:02] scenes look at Winston-Salem
[25:04] Police Department. And Whereas
[25:05] the coursework covers city
[25:07] government and governance
[25:09] structure and community
[25:11] engagement, investigation,
[25:12] field operations, and
[25:14] constitutional law, and much
[25:16] more. Whereas participants
[25:18] experience specialized units
[25:20] such as Swat, k-9, forensics,
[25:22] and the real time crisis and
[25:24] have completed a ride along or
[25:26] cit, along with patrol or
[25:28] communications. And Whereas
[25:30] their dedication has resulted
[25:31] in a better understanding and
[25:33] appreciation of city government
[25:35] and law enforcement, and their
[25:37] participation has given them
[25:38] resources to serve their
[25:40] community and the world better.
[25:42] Now, therefore, be it resolved
[25:43] that the mayor and the
[25:44] Winston-Salem City Council
[25:46] hereby approve honoring the
[25:49] 2026 Winston-Salem Citizens
[25:51] Police Academy graduates in
[25:52] which the much discussed with
[25:54] their future as community
[25:55] leaders.
[26:00] Come. For our second, because
[26:02] they are pursuing a position
[26:04] that has unanimous and
[26:08] presented us to begin to. Alan
[26:26] recognized. Thank you, Kenzie.
[26:28] Thank you for helping to make
[26:31] all this happen here. And Chief
[26:32] Fan has joined us here. How are
[26:35] you? Uh, so we are delighted to
[26:36] have this program in our city
[26:38] and our public safety chair and
[26:40] member of the class is here as
[26:41] well. So I
[26:42] ll present this to
[26:44] you and invite you to make a
[26:50] comment to your life.
[26:51] Good evening. Mayor. Mayor Pro
[26:53] Tem, member of the Council.
[26:55] Thank you for this recognition
[26:56] for the Citizens Police
[26:59] Academy. And I also wanted to
[27:00] take this opportunity to extend
[27:03] my gratitude to them. Although
[27:05] it is very clear to me that
[27:08] everyone knows how to do our
[27:11] job, when, where and how to do
[27:12] it. Um, it
[27:14] s especially I want
[27:16] to thank them this committee
[27:19] group, for the 13 Thursdays
[27:21] that they spent learning all
[27:22] about the police department.
[27:24] Um, they took ownership of
[27:26] their police department, and
[27:29] they learned a lot. I will tell
[27:30] you that as much as they
[27:32] learned during those 13 weeks,
[27:34] we learn just as much from
[27:35] them. And I
[27:36] m going to warn
[27:36] them, like I did at the
[27:39] beginning of class. They hear
[27:41] all this knowledge with them.
[27:42] However, if every time they
[27:44] watch in cop movies with their
[27:46] family members, they say they
[27:46] can
[27:47] t do that or they can
[27:47] t do
[27:48] that, no one will want to watch
[27:50] tv with them. So please refrain
[28:01] for that. But thank you.
[28:03] I will add that we have the
[28:05] fall version of Citizens Louis
[28:07] County coming up on AUGUST
[28:08] 27th. Thank you all so much.
[28:13] Thank you. Now go to our
[28:15] regular agenda. Our agenda is
[28:16] comprised of two parts the
[28:18] consent agenda and the general
[28:20] agenda. As always, practice of
[28:21] our Council to pay to consent
[28:22] agenda is the first order of
[28:24] business. Items on this agenda
[28:26] have been unanimously
[28:27] recommended by committee of the
[28:29] City Council, or are being
[28:30] submitted in accordance with
[28:32] established city procedure.
[28:33] There will be no discussion of
[28:35] the items on this agenda unless
[28:37] council members so request that
[28:38] item be removed. The consent
[28:39] agenda and considered
[28:41] individually. Item is not
[28:43] remove will be enacted with one
[28:45] motion. Councilmember. Hall was
[28:47] asked by seven with any other
[28:50] items. Councilmember seeing
[28:51] none is here.
[28:51] I
[28:52] ll move for approval.
[28:53] Of the consent.
[28:54] Agenda.
[28:57] Second, Councilmember Clark.
[28:59] This is what chronic disease
[29:00] electronic vote. Please
[29:03] indicate a voting yes if no one
[29:05] can invoice with. All in favor,
[29:07] please say aye. Aye. Opposed?
[29:07] And that
[29:08] s unanimous. MAY have
[29:11] item c7, please.
[29:14] Item c7 resolution establishing
[29:15] a new date for Winfield Forward,
[29:17] llc to complete construction of
[29:20] the Residences at Indiana to
[29:21] provide affordable housing
[29:50] located in the North Ward.
[29:52] Presented at city at the
[29:55] Committee. This is fine. I can
[29:58] do my remark, which is a very
[29:59] general. I
[30:00] ll just be
[30:03] presenting what I did on last
[30:03] Monday, if that
[30:04] s okay. Mayor
[30:07] Jones okay, um, what I wanted
[30:08] to do was make sure that I
[30:10] reiterated what I mentioned at
[30:12] the Housing and General
[30:14] Government meeting on last
[30:17] Monday. That was just that, um,
[30:18] the representatives from
[30:21] Winfield for, uh, to follow up
[30:23] with Mayor Pro Tem Adams, who
[30:25] is the representative for this
[30:27] ward, to be sure that they are
[30:28] able to follow up with the
[30:29] residents who are across the
[30:31] street and Stonewall community.
[30:33] I know that they did make that,
[30:36] um, promise during that meeting
[30:38] on last Monday. I just want to
[30:39] make sure that that is stated
[30:41] on record. So they do follow up
[30:43] and make sure that they have
[30:45] that meeting with, uh, Council
[30:46] Member Adams, as well as the
[30:48] residents that are nearby for
[30:51] the update with the um, site
[30:52] plans and also with the new
[30:53] date for completed
[30:55] construction. Thank you, Mayor
[30:56] Jones.
[30:57] , promotion Council member.
[30:59] I am. And with that, I move to
[31:02] approve item c7.
[31:03] By Mayor Pro Tem Adams. Any
[31:05] discussion? If not all those in
[31:06] favor of this motion, please
[31:08] indicate by saying I.
[31:09] I.
[31:11] Oppose no. And that unanimous
[31:14] thinking. Now go to the general
[31:15] agenda, which is concludes
[31:17] public hearings on alleyway
[31:19] closure, flood insurance
[31:20] compliance, text amendment
[31:22] seven zoning petitions and
[31:25] elected body special use permit
[31:27] petition, public hearings are
[31:29] called uh. Persons in the
[31:30] Council chamber will be given
[31:32] an opportunity to speak if
[31:33] there is opposition to a public
[31:35] hearing item. The proponents
[31:37] and opponents will be given 15
[31:38] minutes for presentation and
[31:40] three minutes for rebuttal. If
[31:42] no one wishes to speak on
[31:43] public hearing and the City
[31:46] council will consider the item
[31:47] which we have, item g one,
[31:50] please.
[31:52] Item g one public hearing and
[31:53] consideration of a petition to
[31:56] close an abandoned a 1.25 acre
[31:58] unnamed alleyway between Allen
[32:00] Street and Wilbur Street,
[32:02] located in the southeast ward.
[32:04] Thank you. Is there anyone in
[32:05] the Council chamber who wishes
[32:10] to be heard on this item?
[32:11] Seeing no one, I declare the
[32:12] public hearing closed and
[32:13] recognize the CHAIRMAN Of the
[32:14] Public Works Committee.
[32:28] Councilmember.
[32:30] I move for approval of item.
[32:31] Chief.
[32:33] Second., which is a second by
[32:39] Councilmember Taylor. Go ahead
[32:40] and say that.
[32:42] I move for approval of item g.
[32:46] One second in the discussion of
[32:48] this item. Not afraid. The
[32:49] motion, please. In the
[32:51] capability. Yes. Anyone opposes
[32:56] vote no. And as unanimous.
[32:59] Thank you. Item g2.
[33:01] Item g2 public hearing and
[33:04] consideration of Udo cc 36
[33:05] National Flood Insurance
[33:08] Program Compliance testimony.
[33:10] This is a public hearing. Is
[33:11] there anyone in the Council
[33:13] chamber who wishes to be heard
[33:14] on this proposed amendment to
[33:16] the National Flood Insurance
[33:21] Program compliance text. C one
[33:23] under threat public hearing
[33:24] code close to recognize Mayor
[33:25] Pro Tem items.
[33:27] Thank you. Mayor. I move for
[33:28] approval of one the statement
[33:30] of consistency for the approval
[33:33] of this item and two. Udl cc
[33:34] 36.
[33:37] Second. Second by Councilmember
[33:40] Clark. Any discussion questions
[33:41] now for the motion please, and
[33:43] keep a voting yes. Anyone who
[33:43] s
[33:52] vote no. That is unanimous.
[33:55] Thank you. Item g three.
[33:56] Item g three public hearing and
[33:58] consideration of the Zoning
[34:01] petition of young keeping him w
[34:05] 3687 from Rs nine and rm18 to
[34:07] Rs seven. Property is located
[34:09] east of the Andrews Drive, and
[34:09] we
[34:10] ve asked Boulevard
[34:12] intersection located in the
[34:13] North Ward.
[34:15] Is there anyone in the council
[34:16] CHAIRMAN Who is opposed to this
[34:21] rezoning? Seeing that we
[34:21] re not
[34:22] the chair of the public hearing
[34:25] closed and recognize the
[34:26] appropriate Adams, I
[34:27] ll.
[34:28] Move for approval of one. The
[34:30] statement of consistency for
[34:32] the approval of this item. And
[34:35] two w 3687.
[34:39] A second. Second second.
[34:40] Council member Taylor. Any
[34:43] discussion questions? Not all
[34:44] for the motion, please indicate
[34:46] by voting yes. Anyone opposed?
[34:51] Vote no. That is unanimous.
[34:53] Thank you. Mayor Pro Tem, item
[34:54] g.
[34:56] Item g for public hearing and
[34:57] consideration of a zoning
[35:01] petition of Lewis David Vargas.
[35:05] W 3688 from Rs nine to gbl
[35:06] properties located on the west
[35:08] side of Home Road, north of
[35:10] Indiana Avenue, containing
[35:12] approximately 0.36 acres.
[35:15] Located in the North Ward..
[35:16] So anyone in the Council
[35:17] chamber who is opposed to this
[35:23] proposed rezoning. Seeing no
[35:24] one, I declare a public hearing
[35:26] closed and again recognized
[35:28] mayor put on work. You are
[35:29] less.
[35:31] I move for approval of one
[35:32] statement of consistency for
[35:35] the approval of this item, and
[35:38] two w 3688.
[35:41] For a second. Second second.
[35:43] Councilmember. Clerk in session.
[35:46] Questions on this item? Not all
[35:47] those in favor, please indicate
[35:49] voting yes. Anyone who
[35:54] s. As
[35:56] unanimous. Thank you. Item g
[35:58] five.
[36:00] Item five. Motion to excuse
[36:01] Council Member Taylor from
[36:03] voting item g6.
[36:04] Thank you. Chair a motion to
[36:05] excuse Councilmember Taylor.
[36:07] I move to Councilmember Taylor.
[36:11] Be voting on item g six.
[36:12] Second above for all. Any
[36:15] discussion. All those in favor
[36:16] of the item, please take the
[36:18] voting. Yes. Anyone opposed?
[36:22] Vote no and that is unanimous.
[36:24] For whatever your excuse for
[36:27] voting on item. Uh, g6, they
[36:28] will have on Jesus.
[36:30] I g6 public hearing and
[36:31] consideration of a zoning
[36:34] petition for Water Holding llc
[36:35] doing business as equal
[36:39] properties w 3689 from R.M.
[36:44] Eight s and lil two lifo
[36:45] properties located at the
[36:47] southeast intersection of South
[36:49] Main Street and Arnold Avenue,
[36:51] containing approximately 0.81
[36:53] acres. Located in the southeast
[36:54] ward.
[36:56] Thank you. Is there anyone in
[36:56] the Council CHAIRMAN Who
[37:01] opposed this rezoning? Seeing
[37:03] no one, our declare the public
[37:05] hearing closed and just comes
[37:06] prepared. Excused. I
[37:07] m
[37:09] councilmember. Motion. Thank
[37:09] you.
[37:11] Thank you. Mayor. I move for
[37:13] approval of the statement of
[37:15] consistency for the approval of
[37:20] this item. And w-3689.
[37:22] Second by Mayor Pro Tem Adams.
[37:24] Any discussion questions on
[37:26] this item? Not all those in
[37:28] favor. The motion please. Yes.
[37:39] Anyone opposed? Nope. That is
[37:41] unanimous with Councilmember
[37:43] Taylor being excused following
[37:46] on it. Item d7.
[37:48] Item g7 Public Hearing and
[37:49] consideration of the Zoning
[37:52] Petition of hhs Holdings, llc.
[37:56] W 3690. From lds to gps
[37:57] properties located along the
[37:59] southeast side of South
[38:00] Stratford Road and at the
[38:02] terminus of Ashwood Drive,
[38:04] containing approximately 2.38
[38:06] acres located in the southwest
[38:08] Ward.
[38:09] Thank you. Is there anyone in
[38:11] the Council chambers opposed to
[38:17] this rezoning? See, you want to
[38:18] declare a public hearing closed
[38:19] and recognized? Councilmember
[38:22] Andre Bowman.
[38:23] MR. Mayor, I move.
[38:25] For approval of one statement.
[38:26] Consistency for the approval of
[38:31] this item. And to w 3690.
[38:34] Second Councilor Scipio. Any
[38:38] discussion questions? Now, all
[38:39] those in favor? The motion,
[38:41] please keep the voting. Yes.
[38:47] Anyone knows those have. And
[38:49] that is unanimous. Thank you.
[38:51] Item g8.
[38:53] I am g a public hearing and
[38:54] consideration of the zoning
[38:56] petition of all Red Investment
[39:00] Company, llc. W 3692 from gi
[39:03] and cpo to gpl properties
[39:05] located on the north side of
[39:06] East Haynes Mill Road, across
[39:08] from Brasfield Drive,
[39:11] containing approximately 44.45
[39:13] acres. Located in the northeast
[39:14] Ward.
[39:16] Thank you. Is there anyone in
[39:17] the Council CHAIRMAN Who is
[39:22] opposed to this rezoning?
[39:23] Seeing no one on declare the
[39:24] public hearing closed and
[39:26] recognized, Councilmember.
[39:26] Fortune.
[39:29] Thank you, mayor. I move for
[39:31] approval of one. The statement
[39:33] of consistency for the approval
[39:38] of this item. And two w 3692.
[39:40] One mayor Pro Tem Adams any
[39:41] discussion questions on this
[39:44] item? Not all those in favor,
[39:46] please. Yes. You want to close
[39:54] out that? As approved
[39:58] unanimously. Item g nine.
[40:00] Item g9 public hearing and
[40:01] consideration of a Zoning
[40:05] Petition of alma mater w 3693
[40:08] from Rs nine to Knoll
[40:09] Properties, located on the
[40:11] south side of Country Club Road
[40:13] between South Cliff Dale Drive
[40:15] and Harbor Street, paying
[40:17] approximately 0.33 acres.
[40:20] Located in the southwest Ward.
[40:21] I understand there is
[40:22] opposition to this item, so we
[40:26] will have a public hearing for
[40:27] the proponents here to make
[40:30] comments. Uh, MR. Murphy is
[40:53] going to do that for us. Mayor.
[40:54] Um, mayor Pro Tem, members of
[40:57] council, uh, this request is to
[41:00] rezone 0.33 acres of property
[41:01] located on the south side of
[41:02] Country Club Road, between
[41:04] South Lift and Rob and Harbor
[41:06] Street, located in the
[41:08] southwest ward from Rs. Nine to
[41:11] Knoll neighborhood office.
[41:20] Limited use. This is a map of
[41:23] the for 2045 Growth Management
[41:24] Area Plan map showing the
[41:26] property located in gma three
[41:27] suburban neighborhoods. It is
[41:28] located to the south side of
[41:30] Country Club Road, just to the
[41:32] west of South Creek Parkway.
[41:33] South Creek Parkway, and that
[41:35] area does serve as the dividing
[41:36] line between gma
[41:37] s two and
[41:39] three, but this is located
[41:40] within the suburban suburban
[41:41] neighborhood. Growth management.
[41:45] Uh, this is a subject property
[41:47] highlighted in yellow, again
[41:49] shown on the south side of
[41:51] Country Club Road. You see, it
[41:53] is located just slightly west
[41:56] of a large office, uh, zoning
[41:58] across the road from an us
[42:01] townhome project. It is located
[42:02] in between Harper and Cliff
[42:04] Dale, and it is located close
[42:06] to the on and off ramps as
[42:12] follows. Creek Parkway Road.
[42:14] Outlined in yellow. This is the
[42:16] existing single home. This
[42:19] would be an adaptive reuse. And
[42:20] again you do see the
[42:21] development pattern in the
[42:23] area. Some intense single
[42:25] family and multifamily to the
[42:27] north have traditional older
[42:29] homes on that south side of
[42:31] Country Club Road. And again
[42:32] you do see the office
[42:35] development there to the east
[42:38] along South Creek Parkway. And
[42:39] you see to the west the
[42:41] beginnings of the um,
[42:45] commercial area. There to the
[42:50] west, the Gordon Manor area.
[42:51] This is the subject property
[42:52] shown on the West Suburban Area
[42:54] Plan update, which was updated
[42:56] in 2018. It does recognize the
[42:57] existing single family
[42:59] residential use of the property
[43:01] and recommends for this
[43:03] property to be developed as
[43:05] single family residential. Uh,
[43:07] also in the area plan. Uh, you
[43:09] know, does talk about the
[43:11] neighborhood office and zoning
[43:13] can be an acceptable transition
[43:15] use and can be accepted
[43:18] alternative to single family
[43:21] residential, especially along,
[43:23] uh, urban corridors such as
[43:25] country Club Road. So again, it
[43:25] doesn
[43:26] t meet the specific
[43:28] recommendation of area plan.
[43:30] But there is some flexibility
[43:31] there for adaptive reuse of
[43:35] existing structures. Uh, this
[43:37] is just some images. This is
[43:38] looking east along Country Club
[43:39] Road to subject property is to
[43:41] the right to see the zoning
[43:43] sign there on the other side
[43:44] you see some of those townhomes
[43:46] that were built about 8 to 10
[43:48] years ago. You do in the
[43:50] background over there. See the
[43:52] southbound offramp from South
[43:53] Creek Parkway, home to Country
[43:57] Club. Uh, this is looking west
[43:59] on along hundred Club Road. The
[44:00] subject property is to the left
[44:03] in the on the image you see the
[44:05] apartments, uh, apartments of
[44:07] townhomes across country Club.
[44:08] Again, there
[44:08] s a wall, there
[44:09] s
[44:10] a vegetated screen, but there
[44:12] is more intense side of the
[44:15] road. Uh, this is looking
[44:16] south. Home kind of club road
[44:18] at the subject property. This
[44:21] is the house in question. Uh,
[44:22] this is looking west from the
[44:24] property and adjacent vacant
[44:28] parcel. Their own country club.
[44:29] This is looking east from the
[44:31] subject property and another
[44:34] adjacent to make it parcel to
[44:35] give. This is looking more
[44:37] directly across the backs of
[44:38] the townhomes across Country
[44:42] Club Road. And looking at the
[44:44] project can provide an analysis
[44:45] of West Suburban area plan
[44:47] update recommends this property
[44:49] for low density single family
[44:50] development. The district is
[44:52] intended to accommodate home
[44:53] office conversions at the edges
[44:55] of existing residential
[44:57] neighborhoods. The proposed
[44:58] request is compatible with the
[45:00] residential development pattern
[45:01] of the area, and would
[45:02] accommodate reuse of that
[45:04] existing single family home on
[45:06] the site. Proposals. Also
[45:08] consistent with forward to 2045
[45:09] recommendations to create
[45:11] compatible transitions between
[45:14] different land uses. This was
[45:15] heard by the Planning Board at
[45:16] their meeting in JULY. Uh,
[45:17] there was one speaker in
[45:19] opposition, primarily concerned
[45:20] with the additional business
[45:21] development along the country
[45:23] Club Road corridor. I believe,
[45:25] specifically related to traffic
[45:27] concerns. Uh, following the
[45:28] public hearing of the, uh, the
[45:29] planning board did voted
[45:30] unanimously to recommend
[45:31] approval of this request to
[45:33] council. And with that, I stand
[45:35] ready to answer any questions.
[45:39] MR. Murphy. Good morning. Thank
[45:43] you, MR. Murphy. Um, so what
[45:43] are the what can
[45:44] t what are the
[45:46] limitations of moving from what
[45:49] is currently to what the Noel
[45:51] what are the major limitations?
[45:52] Because we spoke earlier that
[45:54] there are things they just
[45:54] can
[45:56] t do. They can do. Can you
[45:57] explain that a little bit in
[45:59] detail? As much as you can.
[46:00] Under this request, they are
[46:02] specifically asking for a
[46:03] limited number of uses or
[46:04] asking for an office use,
[46:06] asking for a couple of
[46:07] different kinds of adult
[46:09] daycare uses. They
[46:09] re asking
[46:11] for a couple of different kinds
[46:12] of child daycare uses, and
[46:12] they
[46:13] re asking to keep the
[46:15] existing single family home as
[46:17] a potential use. But it can
[46:19] only be one of those four
[46:21] things. All of us residence,
[46:23] daycare center, or adult
[46:26] daycare provider, or a
[46:28] combination thereof. Of course,
[46:29] if they keep the existing home,
[46:30] they would have to make sure it
[46:32] meets, uh, non-residential
[46:34] code. Uh, if they
[46:34] re going to
[46:35] have it as any type of
[46:37] occupancy other than single
[46:39] family, um, there are no
[46:40] conditions of approval related
[46:42] to this. As far as keeping the
[46:42] home, we don
[46:43] t really have
[46:45] anything that would kind of if
[46:47] you remove it and you violated
[46:48] the zoning condition, there
[46:48] s
[46:49] not really a remedy to put the
[46:51] house back if you tear it down.
[46:52] Given the limited nature of the
[46:54] uses that are being requested,
[46:54] I don
[46:55] t think it
[46:56] s likely that
[46:58] the house is to be torn down
[47:00] and rebuilt for something else.
[47:01] Perhaps the petitioner could
[47:02] speak to that, but again, it
[47:03] wouldn
[47:06] t be binding. But very
[47:08] limited frame of uses that are
[47:10] being requested here. I know
[47:12] that one of the concerns of the
[47:14] people who are opposed to this
[47:16] is around the traffic. Um, is
[47:18] there a limitation of how many
[47:22] cars can go into this proposed,
[47:24] zoning? Not as part of this,
[47:24] because there
[47:25] s no site
[47:27] specific development plan. The
[47:28] uses that are here and
[47:29] obviously a child daycare
[47:30] center would be somewhat
[47:32] limiting by the square footage
[47:35] of the structure. Uh, and
[47:36] office, you know, again,
[47:37] generally speaking, of all
[47:39] pesticides would generate a lot
[47:40] of traffic, but there would be
[47:42] any guarantees or assurances
[47:44] related to traffic because it
[47:44] s
[47:46] a limited use request, can
[47:46] t
[47:49] speak to the fact that the
[47:51] existing traffic count in that
[47:52] area on Country Club is at
[47:56] 15,500, and the capacity before
[47:57] you tip over into level of
[48:00] service d is 15,800. So it is a
[48:04] heavily congested road. Thank
[48:06] you. We now will have our
[48:07] public hearing. Uh, is the
[48:11] proponent here a proponent?
[48:13] Yes. Okay. We
[48:13] ll get back to
[48:17] you. Anyone to speak for the
[48:25] proponent of okay. Yes. MR..
[48:26] Please come forward. And just
[48:27] give your name and address for
[48:29] the record. Please.
[48:31] Hello. My name is alma mater,
[48:32] and I
[48:33] m representing the House,
[48:38] 36 Oak Country Club and I don
[48:39] t
[48:40] know how to serve, but, um, we
[48:44] are, um, having concerns about
[48:46] the traffic. Uh, usually we try
[48:47] to use the house for home
[48:51] office. Um, the main point is,
[48:53] uh, well, I don
[48:53] t know what to
[48:55] say, but it is, uh, it
[48:55] s
[48:57] somebody really interesting to
[48:59] use the house for. Home office?
[48:59] It
[49:02] s a lawyer. Is, I guess it
[49:02] s
[49:03] not going to be heavy traffic.
[49:07] If it is a problem, but I don
[49:07] t
[49:08] know what I
[49:10] m say.
[49:10] Okay.
[49:13] Thank you. All right. Anyone
[49:16] else? For the proponents right
[49:18] now and ask for the opponents?
[49:19] Yes, ma
[49:20] am. State your name and
[49:22] address for the record as well.
[49:23] Hi. Um, I
[49:24] m Valerie Martin, my
[49:27] address is 417 South
[49:31] Cloverdale. And, um, I am also
[49:34] speaking today on behalf of the
[49:35] Sheffield Garden. Um
[49:38] Association. Central Garden.
[49:39] Sorry, there
[49:39] s a Sheffield
[49:40] garden club that I
[49:41] m a part of,
[49:43] as well as the Sheffield
[49:46] neighborhood. Um, Association.
[49:49] And I have a list of names of
[49:51] people that I spoke with. And
[49:51] I
[49:57] m. Copies of. Um, so as a
[49:58] lifelong resident of this
[50:00] neighborhood, um, I am also I
[50:01] m
[50:02] very happy that about the
[50:04] office building that is there
[50:07] on the office across Harper
[50:08] Street. If you look at your map
[50:11] and I will have to say three
[50:12] things, your pictures must have
[50:14] been taken. I don
[50:15] t know what
[50:17] time of day it showed no
[50:22] traffic at all. And, um, the
[50:23] office building that is built
[50:26] there was heavily contested by
[50:28] the entire neighborhood at that
[50:29] time. It was during the 90s. It
[50:31] was a tie three three vote. And
[50:34] our previous mayor nine was tie
[50:36] breaker. But, um, and there
[50:38] used to be a surveying company
[50:40] that was down the street. They
[50:43] actually wrote a report that
[50:46] talked about how, um, damaging
[50:48] that office building was going
[50:50] to be. Our neighborhood because
[50:52] of water runoff, which is a
[50:53] problem that we it
[50:54] s our
[50:55] neighborhood is downhill from
[50:57] the country club. So we
[50:58] constantly have a problem with
[51:00] the runoff. I do know that the
[51:02] state just passed a law about
[51:02] the parking, so that
[51:03] s great
[51:05] that the permeable surfaces
[51:06] surfaces won
[51:07] t be a problem
[51:10] here. Um, but I will have to
[51:13] say that the neighborhood, um,
[51:16] surveying with the 500 radius,
[51:20] um, and I find that very, um,
[51:22] not substantial to get a good
[51:24] opinion about what the people
[51:26] in that area will be impacted
[51:29] by this development. Um, I
[51:31] understand and appreciate my
[51:33] council person asking me
[51:34] directly about the, um,
[51:36] furthering of, like what? That
[51:38] you know, what the, um,
[51:39] limitations are on that
[51:42] building. And, um, just my
[51:44] concern and yesterday, it might
[51:46] just be an office for one
[51:48] lawyer, but who
[51:49] s to say that
[51:49] they don
[51:51] t care now and then?
[51:52] Like you said, there
[51:52] s nothing
[51:54] really good about that. And
[51:55] then next thing you know, it
[51:55] s
[51:57] like a bait shop or whatever,
[51:59] because that is high density. I
[52:01] understand the high density
[52:03] area stops right there. So
[52:03] we
[52:05] re right on the border. Maps
[52:08] also do not show that it is the
[52:13] entrance for southbound False
[52:15] Creek. And the off ramp of
[52:17] House Creek on Harper Street.
[52:17] There
[52:19] s two streets that Harbor
[52:23] Street does not have a direct
[52:24] intersection. Do not meet up.
[52:25] So it
[52:26] s an offset intersection.
[52:26] That
[52:28] s where the light is. All
[52:29] the residents that live in that
[52:31] neighborhood cannot leave the
[52:33] neighborhood except for through
[52:35] that light. There
[52:36] s no turning
[52:37] on that light. You already
[52:38] discussed about how much
[52:40] traffic is. It? It
[52:40] s almost an
[52:43] access to that area. The other
[52:45] street comes down that borders
[52:47] that house is, um, political
[52:50] drive, which is my street, and
[52:52] I cannot leave my neighborhood
[52:54] going on with Gail because the
[52:57] traffic is such so backed up
[52:58] there. There
[52:59] s, you know, one
[53:01] thing that goes east on Country
[53:02] Club Road, one lane that goes
[53:03] west on Country Road. There
[53:04] s a
[53:06] turning point in the middle.
[53:08] That turning lane is often
[53:11] backed up between, um, Arbor
[53:15] Street and the street exits all
[53:17] the way down past Colonial
[53:19] Drive. So you cannot exit
[53:21] Brookdale Drive going either
[53:22] way because there
[53:22] s turning
[53:25] there that is hacked. Also, if
[53:27] I wanted to go across Country
[53:29] Club Road straight to
[53:30] Cloverdale, the other north
[53:32] side of Cloverdale, there is no
[53:33] way to do that through the
[53:37] traffic there. Again, I totally
[53:38] understand that somebody wants
[53:40] to put an office there. I think
[53:40] that there
[53:41] s a lot of office
[53:43] space throughout the city that
[53:46] you could find to pursue that.
[53:48] Um, we are talking about that.
[53:51] We need housing. So for people
[53:53] to live in. So I think that
[53:53] it
[53:55] s been a house for since the
[53:57] 40s, it should continue to be a
[53:58] house that is right at the
[54:01] border of the. I
[54:01] m sorry, I
[54:01] m
[54:03] not familiar with the terms,
[54:03] but it
[54:05] s right at the border of
[54:06] where you
[54:08] re going to stop the
[54:10] density of business on country
[54:14] road going forward on the, you
[54:16] know, going into like across
[54:20] our street, into the. That they
[54:23] would never put that into. So
[54:24] thank you for your time. Thank
[54:26] you for all your services. Um,
[54:29] and I apologize because, um,
[54:30] that I wasn
[54:31] t at the previous
[54:33] meetings, but I have called
[54:35] every day. As soon as the sign
[54:36] went up, I called. I
[54:37] ve tried
[54:38] to be as civically engaged as
[54:40] possible. I went around and
[54:41] surveyed my neighbors as much
[54:43] as possible about the traffic
[54:45] and about the situation. Um,
[54:47] but I just I find that it
[54:47] s
[54:50] just excessive to to make this
[54:53] decision in favor of that. And
[54:54] thank you for your time.
[54:55] Appreciate you listening to me.
[54:58] Thank you very much. Anyone
[54:59] else for the opposition? Yes,
[55:07] sir.
[55:09] I live in Cliff Moore across
[55:12] the street. Uh, at the time of
[55:14] this Planning Board hearing, I
[55:16] was actually living in Ardmore.
[55:18] So my first knowledge of this
[55:21] was the letter I got. Say, I
[55:24] live with within 500ft. And to
[55:28] be adhering tonight. Uh, I
[55:30] talked to planning about this
[55:33] and my concern is, is not what
[55:33] we
[55:35] re being told is going to be
[55:37] there. But in answer to my
[55:40] question, yes, the House can be
[55:42] torn down and an office built,
[55:45] and that office can be 40ft
[55:50] high. So my concern is not
[55:52] necessarily what is being
[55:55] proposed, but the potential of
[55:58] what this is resolved can
[55:59] happen. Thank you.
[56:02] Thank you sir. Anyone else for
[56:07] the opposition? Seeing anyone,
[56:08] in the proponents, you can have
[56:09] three minutes for any rebuttal
[56:10] you
[56:19] d like to present.
[56:21] Um, I wanted to mention
[56:22] something a little bit ago. I
[56:24] know there are some concerns
[56:26] about traffic, but one of the
[56:27] things that made me think about
[56:29] it, uh, I just received a
[56:32] letter, um, maybe two weeks ago
[56:33] about the going to tear the
[56:35] bridge down, the one that are
[56:37] concerning about it. And for
[56:38] that, maybe I don
[56:39] t know if
[56:39] they
[56:40] re going to do remodels
[56:41] for the bridge. They
[56:41] re going
[56:44] to be make the bridge more, I
[56:46] mean, concerned, I mean, do
[56:47] something to remove to do that
[56:50] traffic more easy.
[56:52] Okay. The bridge over the
[56:52] river.
[56:55] Yeah. The one they saw scream..
[56:56] Right.
[56:56] Thank you.
[56:57] Thank you.
[56:59] And thank you so much for your
[57:01] help.
[57:01] Thank you.
[57:04] Oh my GOD. The address is 3606
[57:06] Country Club Road.
[57:09] Okay. Thank you. Ah. Anyone
[57:12] else on rebuttal? Okay. Thank
[57:14] you. The opposition would have
[57:15] three minutes for rebuttal. If
[57:15] you
[57:16] d like to add anything else.
[57:21] Okay. You
[57:23] re good. There. Okay.
[57:24] All right. Thank you. I
[57:24] ll
[57:25] declare the public hearing
[57:27] closed. And MISTER Murphy
[57:27] s
[57:29] already given basically the
[57:31] report of the planning board. I
[57:33] recognize a council member,
[57:34] Andre Baldwin.
[57:34] If you don
[57:34] t mind, I
[57:35] d like a
[57:36] couple more questions, if you
[57:37] don
[57:38] t mind for MR. Murphy. Yes.
[57:40] Thank you, sir. MR. Murphy, um,
[57:41] there were a couple of things I
[57:42] would like to just kind of make
[57:43] sure that we
[57:47] re clear on, um,
[57:49] if this if this, this rezoning
[57:54] goes through, um, the the
[57:54] there
[57:55] s a possibility of
[57:58] allowing this to be a house
[58:00] with a business attached to it.
[58:05] Is that correct?
[58:06] Let me make sure I understand
[58:06] what you
[58:07] re asking. Could could
[58:09] it be used jointly as a
[58:10] residence in an office?
[58:12] Yes. Okay. And from the
[58:13] conversation that I
[58:14] ve had with
[58:15] the person who
[58:15] s making that
[58:17] proposal, that is what is being
[58:19] proposed. Okay, um, and then
[58:22] there was a question about if
[58:24] this if this goes through
[58:26] building it one day, turning it
[58:29] into a larger office space, if
[58:31] this if this does go through,
[58:33] if there was proposed, if they
[58:34] wanted to make it a larger
[58:35] office space, it would have to
[58:36] come back to be rezoned. Is
[58:37] that correct?
[58:38] Incorrect.
[58:39] Okay. Please can you expand
[58:39] that.
[58:39] Because it
[58:39] s, it
[58:41] s a as long as
[58:43] they are not changing the uses.
[58:44] In other words, if this were to
[58:45] get approved tonight, they
[58:45] ve
[58:47] asked for offices, adult
[58:49] daycare or home, adult daycare
[58:51] center, child care home drop in
[58:53] single family residential. As
[58:53] long as it
[58:56] s one of those uses.
[58:56] There
[58:59] s nothing that requires
[59:01] that building to stay there. So
[59:03] if this were approved tonight
[59:06] and they move in there and they
[59:07] have an office for several
[59:08] years and then decide, hey, you
[59:10] know, I think we could do a
[59:12] bigger office. And they tear
[59:14] the building down and build a
[59:17] two three story office,
[59:18] assuming they could fill in a
[59:20] lot with the setbacks, they
[59:22] could do that, and it would not
[59:23] have to come back before this
[59:23] board because it
[59:24] s a limited
[59:26] use request, not a special use
[59:28] request that ties it to a site
[59:30] plan, a specific development
[59:32] approval. That
[59:32] s that
[59:32] s not
[59:34] what this does. This is limited
[59:35] use. So you
[59:35] re just looking at
[59:37] the uses.
[59:46] Okay. Thank you. Okay. Um,
[59:46] let
[59:50] s get the right one. Well,
[59:51] I don
[59:52] t know the deal. Uh, I
[59:52] guess I
[59:53] ll go ahead. I move for
[59:55] approval of one. The statement
[59:56] of consistency for the move,
[59:58] the approval of this item. And
[1:00:01] two, 3693.
[1:00:02] Thank you. Is there a second?
[1:00:04] Second. Second. Counselor.
[1:00:06] Scipio. Councilmember Clark and
[1:00:08] Councilmember Joyner. Yes. I am
[1:00:09] the COUNCILMAN Across the
[1:00:11] street. I don
[1:00:12] t have any
[1:00:13] trouble. If someone wanted to
[1:00:16] use the house as an office, but
[1:00:17] if it was me, I would have put
[1:00:19] restrictions on what you could
[1:00:23] do. Uh, this is a third of an
[1:00:24] acre. I don
[1:00:25] t know how big an
[1:00:26] office building you could put
[1:00:28] in. Raleigh just did away with
[1:00:29] all the parking requirements.
[1:00:32] So, um, since there are not any
[1:00:34] restrictions, you could tear it
[1:00:36] down and put up a larger office
[1:00:37] building. I will have to vote
[1:00:38] no. That
[1:00:40] s where. Joyner.
[1:00:43] Thank you. Mayor. I, um, I
[1:00:46] really feel that in most cases,
[1:00:47] someone should be able to do
[1:00:48] what they want to do with their
[1:00:51] property. But in a residential
[1:00:54] neighborhood, and as the woman
[1:00:58] said, uh, we are strapped for
[1:01:00] spaces to put housing. And
[1:01:04] under the original idea of a
[1:01:05] plan for this property, it
[1:01:08] would be great. Um, because it
[1:01:10] could be a resident and an
[1:01:11] office. But that
[1:01:12] s no
[1:01:14] guarantee. Five years, five
[1:01:17] months or 50 years. But the
[1:01:18] thing that we know, five
[1:01:20] months, five years or 50 is
[1:01:23] that we need housing. So for
[1:01:25] that, as much as I believe
[1:01:29] entrepreneurship is a a
[1:01:31] stronghold and something that
[1:01:33] needs to be, I would have to
[1:01:35] vote no for this.
[1:01:38] Okay. Thank you very much. Just
[1:01:39] do we have a motion to approve
[1:01:40] the rezoning? All those in
[1:01:41] favor of the rezoning, please
[1:01:43] vote yes. Anyone opposed? Vote
[1:01:55] no. Motion passes 5 to 3. Five
[1:01:57] in favor of three. Opposed.
[1:01:59] Thank you. Councilmember Bone.
[1:02:02] All right. Item g ten.
[1:02:04] Item g ten. Public hearing and
[1:02:05] consideration of a zoning
[1:02:07] petition of Andrea Adams
[1:02:11] Strickland w 3694 from Rs 12 to
[1:02:14] hbl properties located on North
[1:02:16] on the northeast intersection
[1:02:18] of University Parkway and Laura
[1:02:19] Avenue, containing
[1:02:21] approximately 0.9 acres.
[1:02:24] Located in the northeast Ward.
[1:02:26] Thank you. Is there anyone in
[1:02:28] the chamber who is opposed to
[1:02:33] this rezoning? See no one. I
[1:02:34] ll
[1:02:35] declare the public hearing
[1:02:36] closed and recognized.
[1:02:40] Councilmember Burke.
[1:02:42] I move for the approval of one.
[1:02:43] The statement of consistency
[1:02:45] for the approval of this item.
[1:02:49] And two w-3694.
[1:02:51] Second second by Mayor Pro Tem
[1:02:55] Adams. Any discussion questions?
[1:02:56] No. Those opposed the motion.
[1:02:58] Please indicate by voting yes.
[1:03:02] Anyone opposed? Vote no. And
[1:03:03] that is unanimous. Thank you.
[1:03:07] Councilmember Burke. Item g 11.
[1:03:09] Item g 11 public hearing and
[1:03:10] Consideration of an Elected
[1:03:12] Body. Special Use Permit
[1:03:14] petition of w Sanders, Moseley
[1:03:17] and Elizabeth Moseley. W 3691.
[1:03:19] Property is located on the west
[1:03:21] side of Chatham Road, north of
[1:03:23] Buxton Street, containing
[1:03:26] approximately 1.93 acres.
[1:03:28] Northwest Ward.
[1:03:30] Thank you. As mentioned, this
[1:03:32] is a public hearing regarding
[1:03:32] the petitioner
[1:03:33] s application
[1:03:35] for a special use permit for
[1:03:36] the establishment of an outdoor
[1:03:39] enclosure for a kennel, indoor
[1:03:41] use, and a g1 zoning district.
[1:03:43] The process of approving the
[1:03:44] issuance of a special use
[1:03:47] permit is quasi judicial, which
[1:03:48] requires speakers for this item
[1:03:50] to speak under oath. Speakers
[1:03:52] should also rely only on their
[1:03:54] own information, and not based
[1:03:55] on remarks on what someone else
[1:03:58] has said or knows the applicant
[1:03:59] or other witnesses have the
[1:04:00] right to ask questions of each
[1:04:03] other. All testimony and
[1:04:04] evidence relate must relate to
[1:04:06] the four findings of fact that
[1:04:08] the Council must make as it
[1:04:10] relates to this quasi judicial
[1:04:12] hearing. Council is prohibited
[1:04:14] from considering opinion
[1:04:15] testimony from non-expert
[1:04:17] Witnesses, in particular
[1:04:19] testimony as to how the
[1:04:21] proposed use would impact the
[1:04:22] value of neighboring
[1:04:23] properties. Additionally,
[1:04:25] counsel must only consider
[1:04:26] evidence provided at the
[1:04:28] hearing. Communications with
[1:04:29] members of the City Council
[1:04:30] outside of the hearing are
[1:04:32] prohibited and must be
[1:04:34] disclosed if. The four findings
[1:04:36] of fact are going to be shown
[1:04:38] on the screen here in a moment.
[1:04:42] I think. Um, the process
[1:04:44] requires that the City council
[1:04:46] issue a special permit only
[1:04:48] when it is able to make an
[1:04:49] affirmative finding. As to each
[1:04:51] of the four findings. The
[1:04:53] applicant has the burden of
[1:04:54] proof as to the second and
[1:04:57] third findings. The opposition
[1:04:58] has the burden of proof with
[1:05:00] respect to the first and fourth
[1:05:02] finding. Uh, anyone who wishes
[1:05:04] to speak on this item should
[1:05:05] come forward right now and be
[1:05:21] sworn in.
[1:05:31] Do I come up now? Yes.
[1:05:33] All opposition..
[1:05:33] Well, anyone that
[1:05:34] s taking
[1:05:37] opposition.
[1:05:38] Opposition?
[1:05:39] Yes, everybody. That
[1:05:43] s.
[1:05:46] So you all can maybe all share.
[1:05:52] Yeah. Yeah. Well. Okay. What?
[1:05:55] Can you hold that? Um.
[1:05:56] City clerk.
[1:05:58] Left hand on the Bible?
[1:06:02] Yes. Oh, there we go. We get
[1:06:03] everybody.
[1:06:03] He
[1:06:04] s an attorney. He doesn
[1:06:04] t
[1:06:05] have to be sworn.
[1:06:06] Okay.
[1:06:06] All right.
[1:06:09] So do you solemnly swear or
[1:06:10] affirm that the statements that
[1:06:12] you are about to make are the
[1:06:13] truth, the whole truth, and
[1:06:14] nothing but the truth, so help
[1:06:15] you GOD?
[1:06:16] I do.
[1:06:17] All right.
[1:06:19] All right. Thank you very much.
[1:06:20] Council members, I
[1:06:20] d asked at
[1:06:22] this point if any of you had
[1:06:24] any ex-parte communications on
[1:06:26] this item, and if if so, would
[1:06:27] you disclose it? Councilmember
[1:06:28] Hall?
[1:06:29] Um, thank you, Mayor Jones.
[1:06:30] I did.
[1:06:33] Receive an email on Friday,
[1:06:36] AUGUST the 14th, 2026 at 4:21
[1:06:39] P.M. I am happy to share that
[1:06:41] email for the record. Um, I did
[1:06:43] not respond to the email, but,
[1:06:46] um, I need to disclose it based
[1:06:48] off of what you just read. So
[1:06:48] I
[1:06:50] m happy to read the the email
[1:06:52] in its entirety. City attorney,
[1:06:53] if you would like me to or just
[1:06:55] to note, um, who the email was
[1:06:57] from and the date and time
[1:06:58] spent.
[1:06:59] Um, Councilmember Hall, if you
[1:07:01] could just, um, summarize the
[1:07:02] email and then give it to the
[1:07:04] clerk for the record.
[1:07:05] Um, I think that would be
[1:07:05] sufficient.
[1:07:08] Okay. Um, so I did receive an
[1:07:11] email from a constituent, uh, a
[1:07:13] resident of the northwest Ward.
[1:07:16] Um, Frank Frye, on Friday,
[1:07:19] AUGUST 14th at 4:21 P.M.. Um,
[1:07:20] wanting to express his
[1:07:22] opposition to the outdoor
[1:07:25] kennel proposal at 740 Chatham
[1:07:28] Road. Uh, and that he knows
[1:07:30] several property owners on West
[1:07:31] End Boulevard overlooking the
[1:07:35] site, uh, who also oppose the
[1:07:39] proposed use.
[1:07:41] Okay. Matter of record. Thank
[1:07:43] you. And Councillor Warner.
[1:07:45] Thank you. Mayor. Um, before,
[1:07:46] uh, council meeting started
[1:07:49] this evening, I did encounter
[1:07:51] and speak cordially with one of
[1:07:54] the residents of that area who
[1:07:57] is here for, uh, to oppose it.
[1:07:59] We did not have a conversation
[1:08:04] about it. Um, I was told why
[1:08:06] they were here. I acknowledged
[1:08:08] that, and we moved on.
[1:08:09] Okay. Thank you. COUNCILMAN
[1:08:11] Clark. I go to church with the
[1:08:13] petitioner. Petitioner,
[1:08:15] whatever, but he and I have not
[1:08:18] discussed it. Thank you for it.
[1:08:18] All right, we
[1:08:19] ll move forward
[1:08:21] then. Um, Councilor Murphy, you
[1:08:22] want to Council member MR.
[1:08:25] Murphy? We have. You take a pay
[1:08:25] cut.
[1:08:27] Oh, yeah.
[1:08:28] See that for it, please?
[1:08:31] Yes. Uh, the this is a request
[1:08:33] to, uh, for a special use
[1:08:34] permit for 1.93 acres located
[1:08:35] on the west side of the Chatham
[1:08:37] Road, north of Buxton Street,
[1:08:38] and again located in the
[1:08:39] northwest ward. It
[1:08:40] s an elected
[1:08:41] body. Special use permit for
[1:08:43] the establishment of the
[1:08:45] outdoor enclosure. Enclosure
[1:08:47] for a kennel, indoor use in gis
[1:08:48] zoning district. And I want to
[1:08:50] make that distinction because a
[1:08:52] kennel indoor use is allowed in
[1:08:55] gi zoning by right. Uh, but
[1:08:55] there there
[1:08:56] s a proposal for an
[1:08:58] outdoor run as part of the
[1:08:59] indoor kennel. And that
[1:08:59] s what
[1:09:01] requires the special use
[1:09:02] permit. So this is not a
[1:09:02] rezoning. It
[1:09:03] s a special use
[1:09:04] permit for the establishment of
[1:09:07] the outdoor kennel with outdoor
[1:09:10] run as part of the kennel. I
[1:09:10] m
[1:09:10] not going to go over the
[1:09:12] findings again. I will get to
[1:09:15] those at the conclusion. Uh,
[1:09:17] again, we treat this similar to
[1:09:18] a rezoning case. So we do kind
[1:09:21] of show you the property in its
[1:09:22] situation. On the growth
[1:09:25] management area plan map. It is
[1:09:26] located within gma two, in the
[1:09:28] urban neighborhoods just on the
[1:09:29] fringe of gma one, but it is
[1:09:32] located within gma two, which
[1:09:34] is urban neighborhoods. This is
[1:09:36] a subject property highlighted
[1:09:37] in yellow. Again, you do see it
[1:09:41] is on the north side of where
[1:09:42] West End Boulevard. Kind of,
[1:09:46] uh, traverses the area. Uh, it
[1:09:48] is on the edge of the Ho
[1:09:49] district, but not in the Ho
[1:09:52] district. Chatham Road is a
[1:09:53] road that kind of transitions
[1:09:55] from, uh, I think Crystal
[1:09:59] towers and the, um, substation.
[1:10:02] And it kind of goes into the
[1:10:05] traditional industrial area to
[1:10:06] the north there along Northwest
[1:10:09] Boulevard, you have the Heinz
[1:10:11] plant there on the right. Uh,
[1:10:12] this was an old industrial
[1:10:14] building. Its last use that we
[1:10:16] have recorded as an approved
[1:10:17] use was as a church, probably
[1:10:20] in the in the 2000 through the
[1:10:21] early 20 tens. I
[1:10:22] m not sure if
[1:10:22] it
[1:10:23] s been vacant, how long it
[1:10:23] s
[1:10:25] been vacant, but it had been
[1:10:26] used as a church. But again,
[1:10:28] you do see there is a a lot of
[1:10:30] various zoning classifications
[1:10:31] in the area. But again, this is
[1:10:35] on ge General Industrial. The
[1:10:36] aerial photo there again you
[1:10:40] see the um the area primarily
[1:10:42] residential to the south and
[1:10:45] southwest, uh, industrial and
[1:10:49] uh, redevelopment of previously
[1:10:51] used industrial areas there on
[1:10:53] to the north, uh, on the west
[1:10:55] side of Chatham Road. Again,
[1:10:56] you see, there is an existing
[1:10:57] building here. You
[1:10:58] ll see those
[1:11:01] in the site, photos. Uh, this
[1:11:03] is the subject property shown
[1:11:05] on the south central
[1:11:06] Winston-Salem area Plan update.
[1:11:08] It does recognize this again as
[1:11:10] an institutional use, because
[1:11:12] whenever the plan was done, at
[1:11:14] least probably 11 years ago,
[1:11:16] this was still being used as a
[1:11:17] church, even though it was
[1:11:18] zoned industrial. But again, it
[1:11:20] is adjacent to an extensive
[1:11:21] area zoned for light industrial
[1:11:25] and general industrial. Uh,
[1:11:27] this is looking south along
[1:11:28] Chatham Road. The subject
[1:11:29] property is to the right. You
[1:11:31] do see the special use permit
[1:11:33] sign posted there along Chatham
[1:11:35] Road in the background. There
[1:11:38] you see the Mac and the Winston
[1:11:39] Tower building. You don
[1:11:39] t
[1:11:41] really see Crystal towers from
[1:11:42] here, but it is just up the
[1:11:45] hill. Uh, this is looking north
[1:11:46] along Chatham Road. The subject
[1:11:48] property is to the left. You
[1:11:49] see the railroad? Um, they
[1:11:50] re
[1:11:51] about the middle of the image.
[1:11:52] You see the railroad crossing
[1:11:54] on Chatham Road? Um, the
[1:11:58] signage, uh, this is behind the
[1:11:59] building in question. This is
[1:12:01] the location of the proposed
[1:12:02] outdoor enclosure. Again, this
[1:12:04] is an existing building, zoned
[1:12:06] industrial allows the use. But
[1:12:08] this is where the outdoor
[1:12:09] kennel would take place on the
[1:12:10] backside of that building. The
[1:12:14] outdoor enclosure. Um, this is
[1:12:15] looking south from the outdoor
[1:12:18] enclosure. Uh, looking into the
[1:12:19] West End neighborhood on top of
[1:12:21] the hill. So again, they
[1:12:22] re
[1:12:23] single family homes up there
[1:12:26] that would look down onto the
[1:12:28] rear of this project and
[1:12:31] property. Uh, this is looking
[1:12:33] southeast from the back of the
[1:12:34] paved area. Enclosure would be
[1:12:35] on the left side of the image.
[1:12:36] And again, the West End
[1:12:37] Historic District is on top of
[1:12:41] the hill. And this is just
[1:12:42] looking at the main parking
[1:12:44] area there on the south side of
[1:12:45] that existing industrial
[1:12:46] building. But that
[1:12:46] s where the
[1:12:48] hill is. That goes up to the
[1:12:51] west end. Uh, this is a site
[1:12:53] plan. Uh, again, it
[1:12:54] s basically
[1:12:55] most of it is cleaning the site
[1:12:57] up and re utilizing the
[1:12:59] existing facility, there MAY be
[1:13:00] a slight expansion of the
[1:13:02] parking on that south side. I
[1:13:05] will let the, uh, petitioner
[1:13:07] and, uh, folks representing the
[1:13:08] petitioner speak to that. I
[1:13:09] can
[1:13:10] t 100% say whether or not
[1:13:12] this is all existing parking on
[1:13:14] that south side or not. You do
[1:13:15] see some, I believe that
[1:13:15] s some
[1:13:18] proposed asphalt. Uh, excuse
[1:13:20] me? Concrete walkways. And then
[1:13:22] you do see the proposed outdoor
[1:13:23] enclosure labeled there on the
[1:13:24] right side of that building.
[1:13:24] It
[1:13:26] s a 5100 square foot
[1:13:27] enclosure, along with some
[1:13:30] fencing and other things, uh,
[1:13:32] specified by the Udo. Again,
[1:13:36] there are, um, uh, does show,
[1:13:37] uh, maintaining the existing
[1:13:38] vegetation. There isn
[1:13:39] t a
[1:13:41] requirement for a buffer yard
[1:13:42] in between industrial zoning
[1:13:45] and residential zoning. Uh, so
[1:13:46] again, they can get credit for
[1:13:48] existing vegetation and
[1:13:51] supplement that as they need to.
[1:13:53] And looking at those findings
[1:13:54] that were mentioned before the
[1:13:57] hearing, uh, the first finding
[1:13:58] is that the use would not
[1:14:00] materially endanger the public
[1:14:01] health or safety if located,
[1:14:02] were proposed and developed,
[1:14:03] according to the application
[1:14:04] and plan, as submitted and
[1:14:07] approved. In response to that,
[1:14:09] staff says that yes, this can
[1:14:10] be found. The subject request
[1:14:12] would not materially endanger
[1:14:13] the public health or safety due
[1:14:15] to relatively low traffic
[1:14:17] generation, use of an existing
[1:14:19] building and access points, and
[1:14:20] compliance with operational
[1:14:22] standards for an indoor kennel
[1:14:25] with outdoor enclosure use.
[1:14:28] Established in section 5.2.4,
[1:14:30] one of the Udo. Further, the
[1:14:31] presumption is that the use is
[1:14:33] permitted in the if. If the use
[1:14:34] is permitted in the zoning
[1:14:36] district, it is not a threat to
[1:14:37] public health or safety unless
[1:14:40] proven otherwise. Under two
[1:14:41] that the use meets all required
[1:14:43] conditions and specifications.
[1:14:44] The finding there is. Yes. The
[1:14:45] subject request will meet the
[1:14:49] minimum requirements of the Udo
[1:14:51] and it did go to the Planning
[1:14:52] Board. Who did certify that it
[1:14:54] does meet those requirements.
[1:14:54] And that
[1:14:55] ll be on the last
[1:14:58] slide. Three that the use will
[1:14:59] not substantially injure the
[1:15:00] value of adjoining or abutting
[1:15:02] property, or that the use is
[1:15:04] deemed a public necessity. That
[1:15:05] is not something that staff has
[1:15:07] the expertise to testify on.
[1:15:09] Uh, so and again, that
[1:15:09] s one of
[1:15:10] the findings. That is the
[1:15:12] burden of proof originally lies
[1:15:13] with the petitioner, and I
[1:15:14] believe they
[1:15:14] d have some
[1:15:15] information that would speak to
[1:15:18] that. Uh, so there is no
[1:15:20] finding from a staff level for
[1:15:23] that finding. And then finally
[1:15:24] the fourth finding that
[1:15:25] location, character and
[1:15:26] character of the use, if
[1:15:27] developed according to the
[1:15:29] application and plan submitted
[1:15:30] and approved, will be in
[1:15:31] harmony with the area in which
[1:15:33] it is to be located and in
[1:15:34] general conformity with for
[1:15:37] 2045. From a staff perspective,
[1:15:39] we find that this that this
[1:15:41] finding can be met. The request
[1:15:43] will allow the reuse of an
[1:15:44] existing vacant building in a
[1:15:46] zoning district, and is
[1:15:47] generally consistent with the
[1:15:49] industrial character of the
[1:15:51] surrounding area. The proposed
[1:15:52] outdoor enclosure is located
[1:15:53] behind. The existing building
[1:15:55] includes buffering elements
[1:15:56] intended to mitigate visual and
[1:15:58] auditory impacts on nearby
[1:16:00] residential properties. The
[1:16:01] request would support the
[1:16:02] redevelopment of an
[1:16:03] underutilized industrial site,
[1:16:04] consistent with the general
[1:16:05] recommendations of forward
[1:16:07] 2045, and again, the
[1:16:09] presumption is that if the use
[1:16:10] is permitted in the zoning
[1:16:11] district, it is in harmony with
[1:16:12] the area. Unless proven
[1:16:15] otherwise. As far as the
[1:16:16] recommendation, I
[1:16:17] ve gone over
[1:16:18] the four findings the
[1:16:19] establishment of an outdoor
[1:16:21] enclosure for a kennel, indoor
[1:16:23] use requires the issuance of a
[1:16:24] special use permit from the
[1:16:26] elected body, uh, following a
[1:16:27] site plan review by the
[1:16:29] planning Board for the gi
[1:16:30] zoning district, the Planning
[1:16:32] Board did determine that the
[1:16:33] site plan meets all Udo
[1:16:35] requirements. On JUNE 11th of
[1:16:38] 2026, so the next steps are to
[1:16:39] hold a public hearing, which
[1:16:39] we
[1:16:41] re doing now, and then make
[1:16:42] a determination regarding those
[1:16:44] four findings. And based on
[1:16:46] that either issue or deny the
[1:16:48] special use permit request. And
[1:16:48] with that, I
[1:16:49] m glad to answer
[1:16:50] any questions.
[1:16:54] Questions. MR. Murphy? Yeah.
[1:16:55] Councilmember Clark.
[1:16:58] This is currently zoned gi.
[1:16:58] Correct.
[1:17:00] Could you give some examples of
[1:17:02] what could be built in a gi
[1:17:06] zoning?
[1:17:08] Uh, manufacturing a
[1:17:10] manufacturing, b manufacturing
[1:17:11] c, manufacturing c allows the
[1:17:12] highest that
[1:17:13] s the most intense
[1:17:15] form of manufacturing. You
[1:17:17] could have an abattoir, which
[1:17:19] is essentially a like a
[1:17:21] meatpacking plant. Uh, you
[1:17:22] could do all kinds of things
[1:17:24] under that existing gi zoning.
[1:17:25] If you hold on a second, I
[1:17:25] ll
[1:17:26] actually get to the table of
[1:17:27] permitted uses. I
[1:17:27] m not sure if
[1:17:28] that
[1:17:32] s enough. Um, as far as
[1:17:35] the heavy industrial type uses,
[1:17:38] um, manufacturing a, b, c
[1:17:41] asphalt and concrete plant, um,
[1:17:43] borrow site, hazardous waste
[1:17:45] management, meatpacking plant,
[1:17:47] a mine and quarry, a recycling
[1:17:49] plant, storage and salvage
[1:17:50] yard.
[1:17:52] Thank you.
[1:17:52] And I
[1:17:53] ve never heard of that
[1:17:53] word.
[1:17:55] You used an abattoir?
[1:17:55] Yeah.
[1:17:55] I
[1:17:56] ve learned.
[1:17:56] It
[1:17:57] s not used much anymore.
[1:18:00] Slaughterhouse. Customer.
[1:18:02] Recipient?
[1:18:03] Yes.
[1:18:07] MR. Murphy? Um, the. First
[1:18:09] requirement said something
[1:18:14] about the planning board. There
[1:18:16] was no material endangerment to
[1:18:16] public.
[1:18:18] Health or safety.
[1:18:19] How did the planning.
[1:18:21] Board?
[1:18:21] This is staff
[1:18:23] s analysis. I
[1:18:24] know the planning board. The
[1:18:26] planning board only certifies
[1:18:27] whether or not it meets you
[1:18:29] their requirements. Remember,
[1:18:30] we can only hold one public
[1:18:31] hearing. So this is the only
[1:18:33] place where the public hearing
[1:18:34] is held.
[1:18:34] So.
[1:18:35] Giving the staff
[1:18:38] s assessment,
[1:18:45] how did you look at audible? Uh,
[1:18:50] situations with dogs barking?
[1:18:50] And again.
[1:18:51] You
[1:18:52] re actually making the
[1:18:53] findings of fact. We
[1:18:53] re just
[1:18:55] providing supporting
[1:18:56] documentation and our
[1:18:57] recommendation on how we feel
[1:18:59] like it would meet that. Again,
[1:19:01] we have noise ordinances. We
[1:19:02] have things in place that kind
[1:19:03] of address noise. There
[1:19:04] s not
[1:19:06] anything specific related to a
[1:19:07] kennel indoor, except for the
[1:19:08] fact that they have to get a
[1:19:09] special use permit from the
[1:19:10] elected body.
[1:19:12] But this is the outdoor kennel.
[1:19:14] This is for outdoor runs. It
[1:19:14] s
[1:19:15] not an outdoor kennel.
[1:19:16] Okay.
[1:19:17] So basically there are
[1:19:20] provisions for an outdoor run
[1:19:22] that you have to have. Staff
[1:19:23] has to be out there with the
[1:19:24] dogs. It
[1:19:25] s not just a free for
[1:19:27] all running around. Now
[1:19:28] obviously, you know again I
[1:19:28] m
[1:19:29] not sure what the business
[1:19:30] model is. You can hear from the
[1:19:32] folks whenever they speak. I
[1:19:35] mean, you know, if you have 25,
[1:19:36] 30 dogs, I
[1:19:36] m sure you
[1:19:36] re going
[1:19:38] to have some barking in some
[1:19:39] play and those kind of things.
[1:19:39] But again, it
[1:19:40] s not like these
[1:19:41] animals would be left
[1:19:42] unattended.
[1:19:42] That
[1:19:44] s what I was thinking
[1:19:45] about. They were going to be
[1:19:46] left outside, but that
[1:19:46] s not
[1:19:48] the case. Thank you.
[1:19:50] All right. Thank you. We
[1:19:50] ll now
[1:19:51] hear from the proponents. You
[1:19:52] d
[1:19:53] have 15 minutes for your
[1:19:54] presentation if you state your
[1:19:57] name and address.
[1:19:59] MR. Mayor, mayor pro tem and
[1:20:01] city council. I am Brad
[1:20:01] Friesen. I
[1:20:02] m an attorney at
[1:20:03] Bell, Davis and Pit, and I
[1:20:07] represent, uh, Kelsey and Eddie
[1:20:08] Dolan and Kelsey
[1:20:09] s non-profit
[1:20:10] corporation that she formed
[1:20:10] Stella
[1:20:13] s Rescue, Inc. They have
[1:20:14] a contract to purchase this
[1:20:16] property from MR. Mosley, who
[1:20:17] s
[1:20:20] also here. Uh, I would like to
[1:20:23] start, um, and, MR. Mayor,
[1:20:26] would it be possible to, as a
[1:20:28] to meet the evidentiary
[1:20:29] requirements? I would like to
[1:20:31] question a few questions from
[1:20:34] MR. Murphy and then MISS Dolan,
[1:20:35] and then we have Luke Dickey
[1:20:37] here from Stonewall to talk
[1:20:38] about the site plan. And Rick
[1:20:41] Brandt, an appraiser. And i
[1:20:43] have a good outline. I can move
[1:20:44] through this pretty quickly,
[1:20:46] but I MAY need more time. Uh,
[1:20:47] would it be possible to ask for
[1:20:48] more time?
[1:20:49] If necessary, we
[1:20:49] d ask you to
[1:20:50] move as quickly as possible.
[1:20:52] Okay. Thank you, MR. Murphy,
[1:20:54] can I first ask you a couple of
[1:20:57] questions about the zoning and
[1:20:58] the nature of the site? First
[1:21:00] of all, you mentioned that it
[1:21:01] was previously a warehouse
[1:21:02] building or had a warehouse
[1:21:05] use. Uh, could it again be used
[1:21:08] without any permit again for
[1:21:11] warehousing and trucking under
[1:21:17] its current zoning?
[1:21:18] To answer the question, I have
[1:21:19] to go into a little bit of
[1:21:20] detail. I can
[1:21:21] t sit here and
[1:21:23] testify. I know there was a
[1:21:23] church in it. I can
[1:21:24] t testify
[1:21:25] whether or not the church ever
[1:21:26] got the proper permits, that
[1:21:27] the church got the proper
[1:21:29] permits, they would probably
[1:21:30] there would probably have to be
[1:21:33] a internal submission to the
[1:21:36] inspections division to issue a
[1:21:38] permit if the use had in fact
[1:21:39] changed. But that
[1:21:39] s not
[1:21:40] anything that would require any
[1:21:42] entitlements other than coming
[1:21:43] to our department to get them.
[1:21:44] It wouldn
[1:21:45] t need to be rezoned.
[1:21:46] Correct.
[1:21:48] And there are hourly
[1:21:49] limitations on the use of the
[1:21:51] outdoor enclosure we
[1:21:52] re seeking
[1:21:53] here under the Udo. Is that
[1:21:56] correct? And those are from 8
[1:22:00] A.M. To 6 P.M..
[1:22:01] Before I answer in the
[1:22:02] affirmative, I want to look.
[1:22:16] Yes, that sounds correct.
[1:22:16] That
[1:22:17] s correct.
[1:22:19] And while you have the Udo
[1:22:20] there, it
[1:22:21] s also a requirement
[1:22:23] of the Udo that no animals can
[1:22:24] be left unattended in the
[1:22:26] outdoor enclosure. Correct?
[1:22:26] That
[1:22:27] s correct. And animals
[1:22:29] cannot be housed outdoors.
[1:22:29] They
[1:22:30] re correct.
[1:22:30] That
[1:22:31] s correct.
[1:22:34] And so adding an outdoor run
[1:22:37] for a kennel use would not
[1:22:39] increase the the population of
[1:22:40] animals that could already be
[1:22:41] housed there because they can
[1:22:41] t
[1:22:43] be housed inutdoor
[1:22:44] enclosure. Right.
[1:22:45] Correct.
[1:22:48] And also as a matter of, uh,
[1:22:50] requirements under the Udo, the
[1:22:53] animal waste. And that MAY be
[1:22:54] deposited in the outdoor
[1:22:55] enclosure has to be managed on
[1:23:15] a daily basis, correct.
[1:23:15] I can
[1:23:17] t testify to whether that
[1:23:18] being true. That could be
[1:23:20] within the city code. I don
[1:23:20] t
[1:23:23] see it in the Udo. If you see
[1:23:23] it in there, if you
[1:23:24] ll point it
[1:23:24] out to me, I
[1:23:25] ll be glad to
[1:23:28] testify to that fact.
[1:23:34] Scoop to poop. I got two dogs.
[1:23:35] Oh.
[1:23:35] I just see.
[1:23:36] It..
[1:23:38] Correct. You are correct. It
[1:23:39] does say with animal waste
[1:23:41] being managed daily as per
[1:23:42] applicable sanitation codes and
[1:23:43] ordinances, which again I think
[1:23:46] refers back to the city code.
[1:23:51] Uh, thank you sir. You
[1:23:54] mentioned that the residential
[1:23:57] property adjacent to this site
[1:23:58] are and I can
[1:23:59] t remember your
[1:24:02] exact words, but the staff
[1:24:05] report notes that they are
[1:24:08] significantly up uphill from
[1:24:10] the this property. Right?
[1:24:11] Correct.
[1:24:13] So in terms of water runoff, we
[1:24:14] would not have water running
[1:24:16] from this enclosure. Appeal to
[1:24:18] the residential areas. That
[1:24:18] right.
[1:24:30] Correct.
[1:24:35] There was the staff report on
[1:24:40] page five at the very bottom in
[1:24:41] the analysis of conformity to
[1:24:43] plans and planning issues,
[1:24:46] notes that the existing
[1:24:48] vegetation, steep topography,
[1:24:49] placement of the enclosure area
[1:24:51] behind the existing building
[1:24:53] and the volunteered additional
[1:24:55] plantings will attenuate
[1:24:58] offsite impacts of the request.
[1:24:59] And that is something that the
[1:25:01] the planning staff found to be
[1:25:03] the c case. Is that right?
[1:25:03] That
[1:25:06] s correct.
[1:25:09] And the mentioned it
[1:25:09] s
[1:25:10] mentioned there that there are
[1:25:11] volunteered additional
[1:25:14] plantings. The planning staff
[1:25:16] asked for three additional
[1:25:18] deciduous trees to be planted
[1:25:19] near the outdoor enclosure. And
[1:25:21] the and the applicant has
[1:25:22] agreed to that, right?
[1:25:22] That
[1:25:23] s correct.
[1:25:25] And those trees would be
[1:25:26] between where the outdoor
[1:25:27] enclosure is and the
[1:25:29] residential property.
[1:25:30] On the south side, correct.
[1:25:40] On the south side. MR. Murphy,
[1:25:42] if the outdoor enclosure is
[1:25:44] being used in violation of the
[1:25:45] Udo, let
[1:25:47] s say with dogs out at
[1:25:50] 10:00 at night, that is
[1:25:51] something that the city could
[1:25:53] enforce. Correct?
[1:25:54] Correct. That would be a zoning
[1:25:56] violation that would be handled
[1:25:57] by the zoning enforcement
[1:25:58] staff.
[1:25:59] MR. Mayor, I would like the
[1:26:01] entire staff report admitted
[1:26:04] in, uh, as evidence in the
[1:26:04] applicant
[1:26:06] s case in this permit
[1:26:07] hearing.
[1:26:09] Brennan.
[1:26:12] Uh, the next witness will be
[1:26:16] Luke Dickey from Kimball.
[1:26:18] So if you would give your name
[1:26:20] and address, please.
[1:26:21] Good evening. Luke Dickey with
[1:26:22] Stem associates, 601 North
[1:26:24] Trade Street, suite 200. MRS..
[1:26:26] 027101.
[1:26:28] Thank you, MR. Dickey.
[1:26:31] See?
[1:26:33] MR. Murphy, do we have slides
[1:26:39] that we could?
[1:26:40] You want the PowerPoint or do
[1:26:42] you want the overhead? Okay,
[1:26:42] let
[1:26:44] s got it. All right. Cuz I
[1:26:45] know you said you might need
[1:26:45] the overhead and.
[1:26:46] That might be problematic.
[1:26:48] But we can figure.
[1:26:49] Yeah. Thank you very much.
[1:26:50] Tonight I
[1:26:50] m just going to kind
[1:26:51] of walk you through the site
[1:26:53] plan that we prepared. Um,
[1:26:54] utilizing of course, the
[1:26:55] information we get from the
[1:26:57] Unified Development Ordinance
[1:26:58] under the Udo Kier code,
[1:27:00] working with planning staff.
[1:27:01] And we prepare these plans that
[1:27:03] get submitted for their review.
[1:27:04] It goes to the departmental
[1:27:06] review. And then we address
[1:27:07] those comments. And then that
[1:27:08] goes into the course into the
[1:27:08] planning board for
[1:27:09] recommendation. And then that
[1:27:11] comes before you this evening,
[1:27:12] uh, up on the screen right
[1:27:13] here, right now is kind of the
[1:27:14] way that just general
[1:27:16] highlighted areas. The building
[1:27:17] is the main white block that
[1:27:17] s
[1:27:19] in the middle. Uh, the blue is
[1:27:21] the enclosure area on the back
[1:27:23] side. Um, highlighted in a
[1:27:24] little bit of a darker green is
[1:27:25] the three trees that were
[1:27:27] conditioned as part of that to
[1:27:28] be planted on the south side of
[1:27:30] the site, uh, the parking lot
[1:27:32] then is located that will be
[1:27:33] expanded to meet the other
[1:27:35] requirements for the size of
[1:27:36] the kennel. Uh, so that gets
[1:27:37] expanded a little bit more
[1:27:39] towards the south side of the
[1:27:41] site. Uh, we designated the
[1:27:42] better stands of trees on the
[1:27:43] side. Those are in the darker
[1:27:46] green corners there for the
[1:27:47] tree safe area that meets the
[1:27:49] requirements of that as well.
[1:27:50] With the expansion of the
[1:27:52] parking lot, there will be a
[1:27:53] street yard requirement. Then
[1:27:55] of course along Chatham Road
[1:27:56] that would be provided to meet
[1:27:57] the requirements. From that
[1:27:59] standpoint, we are showing a
[1:28:00] dumpster at the end of that
[1:28:01] parking lot. That meets the
[1:28:02] requirements of being 50 foot
[1:28:05] setback from any residential
[1:28:06] zoning lot. And then also,
[1:28:06] we
[1:28:07] ve expanded a little bit of
[1:28:08] the parking there on the north
[1:28:09] side, but that
[1:28:09] s up against the
[1:28:11] gi zoning. And there will be a
[1:28:13] street yard required there as
[1:28:15] well. Um, on the overall site
[1:28:17] plan, you can see the slope,
[1:28:18] the dark, the dashed lines that
[1:28:19] are in between the building and
[1:28:20] the residence to the south.
[1:28:22] That is the topography. Each
[1:28:23] one of those that represents a
[1:28:25] two foot step. From that
[1:28:26] standpoint, if you can go to
[1:28:28] the next slide. Oh, just real
[1:28:30] quick. And the closure is
[1:28:30] there
[1:28:32] s one permitted, uh, per
[1:28:32] the ordinance. And that
[1:28:33] s the
[1:28:33] one we
[1:28:34] re providing. Uh, the
[1:28:36] has to meet the required
[1:28:37] building setback requirements,
[1:28:39] which is 40ft from any
[1:28:41] residential zoning. We are 40ft
[1:28:42] away from that at the nearest
[1:28:44] corner. Um, and then I already
[1:28:46] mentioned the recommended
[1:28:47] screening. That was a condition
[1:28:49] for the three trees there on
[1:28:50] the south side. Next slide
[1:28:52] please. This one is just kind
[1:28:53] of going against talk about the
[1:28:54] significant elevation that was
[1:28:56] mentioned in the staff report.
[1:28:57] Uh, the approximate elevation
[1:28:59] of the enclosure there you can
[1:29:01] see is at 860. Uh, the parking
[1:29:03] lot is around 856. Uh, this
[1:29:06] residences to the south is 902.
[1:29:10] Uh, so roughly 42ft above, uh,
[1:29:12] roughly the enclosure and also
[1:29:14] 900. The nearest one is there
[1:29:16] to the east, and that is at an
[1:29:18] 874. So it is 14ft. But that
[1:29:18] s
[1:29:19] also where we
[1:29:19] re going to have
[1:29:21] a remaining vegetation. And
[1:29:22] that will be supplemented to
[1:29:24] from a meeting the buffer
[1:29:25] requirement. So that would be
[1:29:26] addition of evergreen shrubs
[1:29:28] and evergreen plantings to make
[1:29:28] sure we meet the code
[1:29:31] requirements in that location.
[1:29:33] Next slide please. Uh, this is
[1:29:34] again kind of similar to the
[1:29:35] images that MR. Murphy had
[1:29:37] shown earlier. This is where
[1:29:38] the parking lot is. That will
[1:29:41] be expanded there to the left.
[1:29:42] And you can see kind of the
[1:29:43] slope condition there. So
[1:29:45] because of the slope condition
[1:29:45] and where it
[1:29:46] s tucked in,
[1:29:46] that
[1:29:48] ll be not very visible at
[1:29:49] all from the neighbors in that
[1:29:51] location. Next slide please.
[1:29:52] Uh, then this is just kind of
[1:29:53] come up along the side of the
[1:29:54] building. You can see that the
[1:29:55] topography there gets even
[1:29:57] steeper. Um, it was covered in
[1:30:00] kudzu at this point. But again,
[1:30:00] that
[1:30:00] s just kind of
[1:30:02] representing the base of the 40
[1:30:03] foot grade change between the
[1:30:05] residences to the south and
[1:30:06] then where the enclosure is.
[1:30:08] Next slide. Uh, this is looking
[1:30:10] them directly south from the
[1:30:11] enclosure. So basically at the
[1:30:13] northwest corner of the
[1:30:14] building, which will be the
[1:30:15] furthest location of the
[1:30:17] enclosure, uh, looking directly
[1:30:20] south. Next slide. Uh, they
[1:30:20] re
[1:30:21] highlighting the screen in the
[1:30:23] shadows is the closest
[1:30:24] residential unit to this
[1:30:26] enclosure, looking directly to
[1:30:27] the to the south. Um, it
[1:30:28] s kind
[1:30:29] of covered there, but again, we
[1:30:30] will plant the trees on that
[1:30:32] southern side as they grow up.
[1:30:33] Would be kind of more dense
[1:30:34] when you
[1:30:34] re looking down into
[1:30:36] the site than that would start
[1:30:37] to be covered there from that
[1:30:40] location. Next slide. And then
[1:30:42] this is directly, directly to
[1:30:42] the west. So there
[1:30:43] s again the
[1:30:45] residents in the shadows, uh,
[1:30:46] in the backside over there. And
[1:30:47] those trees are going to remain
[1:30:49] in that location. I
[1:30:49] m sure
[1:30:49] we
[1:30:50] re going to clean up the
[1:30:52] understory scrub there, but
[1:30:53] then they
[1:30:54] ll all be replanted
[1:30:55] with make sure we meet the
[1:30:56] ordinance requirements of the
[1:30:58] full screen. Uh, use of the the
[1:30:59] site with the evergreen
[1:31:00] plantings and the evergreen
[1:31:02] shrubs there to create a visual
[1:31:04] break. In addition, of course,
[1:31:06] the the enclosure will have a
[1:31:07] five foot opaque fence all the
[1:31:08] way around it. So anything
[1:31:09] that
[1:31:10] s within the enclosure
[1:31:10] won
[1:31:11] t be visible from that
[1:31:15] standpoint. And that concludes
[1:31:16] my presentation.
[1:31:19] Thank you, MR. Dickie. Anyone
[1:31:21] else?
[1:31:30] Three minutes.
[1:31:32] MR. Mayor, our next witness is
[1:31:35] Kelsey Dolan, who is one of the
[1:31:36] folks who has the property
[1:31:38] under contract to purchase.
[1:31:38] We
[1:31:39] ve been referring to the
[1:31:40] word kennel during this
[1:31:43] application. The intended use
[1:31:44] for this property is actually
[1:31:46] for an animal rescue. There
[1:31:46] s
[1:31:47] not a separate category for
[1:31:49] that in our Udo. However, the
[1:31:50] closest one is kennel, which is
[1:31:51] why that
[1:31:52] s that
[1:31:52] s why the
[1:31:55] application is for a kennel
[1:31:56] enclosure. Kelsey, could you
[1:31:58] introduce yourself and explain
[1:31:59] the intended use for this
[1:32:00] property?
[1:32:00] So I
[1:32:01] m Kelsey Dolan I
[1:32:01] m already
[1:32:02] tearing up. It
[1:32:02] s kind of
[1:32:03] surreal. I
[1:32:04] m super excited. I
[1:32:04] don
[1:32:04] t know how many people show
[1:32:06] up excited about this. Um, but
[1:32:08] it is for a rescue and it is
[1:32:11] all from an animal, a dog that
[1:32:13] we had named Stella, who was
[1:32:15] super special. Um, she kind of
[1:32:17] found me and she was great.
[1:32:18] She, I will say, under oath. I
[1:32:20] think she spoke English. And so
[1:32:22] we named it for her. She was
[1:32:23] great. And I think that the
[1:32:26] biggest part of this is really
[1:32:29] the location itself is making
[1:32:31] that possible, making that
[1:32:32] accessible for everyone. You
[1:32:33] know, we very well could have
[1:32:34] gone somewhere else and built a
[1:32:36] space and built an enclosure
[1:32:37] and an outdoor run, an outdoor
[1:32:38] kennels and space for these
[1:32:40] animals. But a big part of this
[1:32:42] is really wanting to be part of
[1:32:44] the community, part of what is
[1:32:46] helping, you know, in the past
[1:32:48] to have funded this, um, I love
[1:32:49] ever talking. I
[1:32:49] m looking. This
[1:32:50] is like taking at me. So I
[1:32:51] m
[1:32:52] going to try not to ever speak.
[1:32:54] Um, my great grandfather had a
[1:32:55] big hand in developing Winston
[1:32:56] and my grandfather after him.
[1:32:58] And I want to repurpose what
[1:33:01] they did. And as a big tribute
[1:33:02] to take that and invest it back
[1:33:04] into what made them successful.
[1:33:06] And I think that people a lot
[1:33:07] of times say, you know, well,
[1:33:07] it
[1:33:08] d be nice if somebody
[1:33:10] invested in us, invested in
[1:33:11] where we live and made it a
[1:33:12] better place. And that
[1:33:12] s really
[1:33:14] what this is about. And outdoor
[1:33:16] space is because people and
[1:33:17] animals both need to be
[1:33:19] outside. They need sunlight. It
[1:33:20] would not be a very good rescue
[1:33:22] and not be very responsible for
[1:33:23] us if we just left animals
[1:33:25] outside, or if we left them in
[1:33:28] their own mess, and if they
[1:33:29] made a mess, and if they sink
[1:33:31] and if they barked. That said,
[1:33:33] I completely understand anyone
[1:33:34] that would have concerns around
[1:33:36] that. Because if I thought
[1:33:37] somebody was going to build
[1:33:39] outdoor kennels, just letting
[1:33:41] dogs, you know, hunting dogs,
[1:33:42] anything like that, they
[1:33:42] re
[1:33:43] going to sit outside and bark
[1:33:45] and make a mess and stink. That
[1:33:46] that is not a rescue of which
[1:33:47] people would want to come and
[1:33:49] adopt animals from. Um, it
[1:33:49] s
[1:33:51] also not one where people who
[1:33:53] might not have the chance to be
[1:33:55] exposed to cats and dogs can
[1:33:57] have that time. They can go in,
[1:33:59] they can spend time with dogs
[1:34:01] and cats and volunteer and kind
[1:34:02] of just bring the community
[1:34:04] together. I think you saw the
[1:34:06] photos. What we intend to do, I
[1:34:07] mean, even from the pictures,
[1:34:09] is to clean that space up, to
[1:34:10] take a space that
[1:34:10] s not being
[1:34:12] used to not waste the resources
[1:34:14] to build a totally new one, but
[1:34:16] to use what Winston already has
[1:34:17] and to make it something nice
[1:34:19] and to make it something that
[1:34:20] people and animals alike can
[1:34:22] benefit from. And in a time
[1:34:22] where there
[1:34:25] s a 43% increase in
[1:34:27] economical surrenders at
[1:34:28] shelters, this is something
[1:34:30] that the city needs. Um.
[1:34:31] Let me ask you a couple.
[1:34:32] Yeah. Sorry. I
[1:34:32] m gonna keep it
[1:34:33] stolen.
[1:34:34] Are you a current resident of
[1:34:34] Winston-Salem?
[1:34:35] Yes.
[1:34:35] What
[1:34:36] s your address?
[1:34:38] 325 Mendota Drive.
[1:34:40] And in 2025, you formed a
[1:34:42] non-profit corporation for this
[1:34:43] purpose? Yes.
[1:34:44] Are you. Are you.
[1:34:45] Do you currently have
[1:34:47] experience in sheltering rescue
[1:34:48] animals?
[1:34:49] Yes.
[1:34:51] Can you talk about the the
[1:34:53] whether there is a public need
[1:34:55] for more animal shelter space
[1:34:57] in Winston-Salem, for example,
[1:34:59] do you get calls from people
[1:35:00] needing to find places for
[1:35:01] their rescue animals?
[1:35:02] Yes.
[1:35:03] Um, we get hundreds of calls
[1:35:05] and specifically emails. I will
[1:35:07] say cats are infinitely worse
[1:35:09] in the moment than dogs. I will
[1:35:10] give you a timeline, but there
[1:35:12] was a time when animal control
[1:35:13] and humane side of in the same
[1:35:13] building, and we
[1:35:14] ve been very
[1:35:15] limited on resources.
[1:35:18] Since then.
[1:35:20] Sorry. Um, and one just very
[1:35:23] quick fact is that cat math is
[1:35:24] if you have one male and one
[1:35:26] female cat over the course of
[1:35:28] one year, worst case scenario
[1:35:30] can create 400. So when you
[1:35:32] hear cat colonies and you hear
[1:35:34] things like this, it is a much
[1:35:35] bigger issue that
[1:35:35] s going to
[1:35:37] get much bigger over the years.
[1:35:37] We
[1:35:38] re not asking for resources.
[1:35:40] We are trying to give resources
[1:35:44] to the city. We are asking for
[1:35:44] funding. We
[1:35:45] re trying to fund
[1:35:47] ourselves to help this out.
[1:35:48] Councillor Ward five minutes.
[1:35:50] Be.
[1:35:52] Um. Rick Brandt is here. He
[1:35:53] s
[1:35:54] an appraiser with Loftus
[1:35:56] Companies. He has seven slides
[1:35:57] to explain his paired sales
[1:35:59] analysis. On the question of
[1:36:00] whether there is harm to the
[1:36:02] adjoining properties. Uh, we
[1:36:03] ll
[1:36:04] try to do it in five minutes.
[1:36:05] Okay. That
[1:36:05] d be great.
[1:36:06] Thanks.
[1:36:15] Thank you.
[1:36:15] Let
[1:36:16] s see. Do we have. There
[1:36:17] s
[1:36:19] another set of slides for MR.
[1:36:21] Brandt.
[1:36:22] There we go.
[1:36:24] Uh, could you introduce
[1:36:25] yourself and explain your
[1:36:26] qualifications?
[1:36:27] Uh, my name is Rick Brandt. I
[1:36:27] m
[1:36:29] an appraiser here with Loftus
[1:36:30] Appraisal Company in
[1:36:31] Winston-Salem. Our office on
[1:36:34] 6160 Campbell Forest Drive in
[1:36:35] Winston-Salem. I
[1:36:37] m an ma. I,
[1:36:39] uh, Appraisal Institute member.
[1:36:39] Uh, I
[1:36:41] ve been appraising here
[1:36:42] within the city for over 20
[1:36:43] years.
[1:36:46] Thank you. If you
[1:36:46] ll go to.
[1:36:47] And with respect to the
[1:36:49] question of whether there would
[1:36:51] be substantial harm to the
[1:36:52] value of adjoining or adjacent
[1:36:54] properties, if an outdoor
[1:36:56] kennel, an outdoor, an outdoor
[1:36:59] enclosure, uh, if an if an
[1:37:01] outdoor enclosure were approved
[1:37:02] by the special use permit, did
[1:37:04] you do any analysis?
[1:37:05] I did, I did a paired sales
[1:37:09] study of comparable, uh, homes
[1:37:11] located in close proximity to
[1:37:12] kennels. The first one was a
[1:37:14] development called Dorchester,
[1:37:17] uh, in Northern David County.
[1:37:18] Uh, if you look up there on the
[1:37:20] map, uh, you can see the
[1:37:23] location of no goats, no glory.
[1:37:26] Uh, kennel. And, uh, the dot is
[1:37:27] more or less over there.
[1:37:29] Outdoor enclosure. Uh, that
[1:37:32] outdoor enclosure is located,
[1:37:33] uh, very close to the subject
[1:37:35] property. If you go to the next
[1:37:37] slide, I can give you it
[1:37:37] s
[1:37:41] 160ft from the subject property
[1:37:43] to the kennel, uh, to the
[1:37:44] outdoor enclosure of that
[1:37:46] kennel. Uh, the way you do a
[1:37:48] paired sales study is you look
[1:37:50] for other homes that are highly
[1:37:52] similar, that are a further
[1:37:54] distance away, that should not
[1:37:56] be impacted in any way by the
[1:37:58] presence of that outdoor
[1:37:59] kennel. Uh, and in this case, I
[1:38:02] found two homes on that same
[1:38:04] street that were very similar.
[1:38:07] The first one was 400ft away.
[1:38:08] Uh, and the way you proceed
[1:38:10] with the paired sales study is
[1:38:12] just like when you purchase a
[1:38:13] home, you make adjustments for
[1:38:15] all the things that are
[1:38:16] dissimilar between the two
[1:38:18] homes to arrive at a adjusted
[1:38:20] price per square foot, if that
[1:38:22] adjusted price per square foot
[1:38:25] were drastically, um, higher
[1:38:28] than what the subject sold for,
[1:38:29] that would tell you that
[1:38:29] there
[1:38:30] s some impairment with
[1:38:32] the subject that we did not
[1:38:33] consider. In this case, that
[1:38:34] would be the presence of the
[1:38:37] kennel. Uh, in this case, the
[1:38:39] first comparable came in at
[1:38:41] $126 per square foot. The
[1:38:44] subject property sold for 151,
[1:38:46] indicating that there was no
[1:38:48] impairment present. Uh, if you
[1:38:51] go to the next slide, uh,
[1:38:52] that
[1:38:53] s comparable to it was
[1:38:56] located 800ft away. Um, and it
[1:38:59] was a new home. Uh, if you look
[1:39:00] at it, the adjusted price per
[1:39:04] square foot was $119 per square
[1:39:05] foot, as opposed to the
[1:39:08] subject, which sold for 151. So
[1:39:10] again, there is no indication
[1:39:10] that there
[1:39:11] s any detrimental
[1:39:13] condition created by the
[1:39:15] presence of the outdoor, uh,
[1:39:17] dog enclosure. Uh, go to the
[1:39:19] next slide. This is the second
[1:39:21] study I conducted. This is in
[1:39:23] Oak Valley Country Club in
[1:39:26] advance. Uh, if you look at the
[1:39:28] top there, hound housing,
[1:39:30] doggie daycare, uh, has an
[1:39:31] enclosure that
[1:39:31] s directly
[1:39:34] adjacent to, uh, homes in Oak
[1:39:36] Valley Country Club. Uh, the
[1:39:38] subject property, uh, is
[1:39:40] located on the other side of
[1:39:42] the fence from the doggie
[1:39:43] daycare. If you
[1:39:44] ll flip to the
[1:39:47] next slide. Um, there you can
[1:39:47] see that it
[1:39:49] s 650ft from the
[1:39:50] house to the area of the
[1:39:53] enclosure. Uh, there I looked
[1:39:56] at two homes also. Um, after
[1:39:58] adjustments, the first one came
[1:40:01] in at $163.16 as opposed to the
[1:40:04] subject at 164 30. So that
[1:40:06] indicates that it was, um, you
[1:40:08] know, very similar indicated
[1:40:09] price to what it actually sold
[1:40:10] for. And there was no
[1:40:12] detrimental condition there.
[1:40:14] Uh, if you go to comparable
[1:40:17] number two, uh, again, um, that
[1:40:20] one was 2000ft away. Uh, on
[1:40:21] that one, the only thing I
[1:40:23] would note there is that part
[1:40:24] of the reason the adjusted
[1:40:26] sales price is so low is that
[1:40:27] when backed up to the 15th
[1:40:29] fairway, and we use paired
[1:40:31] sales to make adjustments for
[1:40:32] things that have golf views,
[1:40:34] and that required a much larger
[1:40:35] adjustment than the other one.
[1:40:37] So, uh, you notice the gross
[1:40:38] adjustments are fairly large
[1:40:40] there. But again, it, uh,
[1:40:41] indicated no detrimental
[1:40:42] condition at all for the
[1:40:47] subject.
[1:40:49] And so after doing that
[1:40:51] analysis and you
[1:40:51] re familiar
[1:40:52] with the subject site that we
[1:40:54] have, the application on
[1:40:56] tonight and understanding how
[1:40:58] that site is situated based on
[1:40:59] your analysis of other.
[1:41:01] Sales community.
[1:41:03] What is your conclusion about
[1:41:05] whether the proposed outdoor
[1:41:07] enclosure would substantially
[1:41:09] harm values of adjoining
[1:41:09] property?
[1:41:10] I can
[1:41:11] t find any evidence that
[1:41:14] it would.
[1:41:16] Sir.
[1:41:18] Um, MR. Mayor, those are all of
[1:41:20] our witnesses. If it would help
[1:41:23] the council, uh, at the end of
[1:41:25] the opposition I have, I could
[1:41:27] present a very brief summation
[1:41:28] addressing the evidence on each
[1:41:31] of these factors. Go ahead. You
[1:41:32] would like me to proceed now.
[1:41:37] Thank you. On the factor of
[1:41:38] whether the outdoor enclosure
[1:41:39] would not materially endanger
[1:41:41] the public health or safety if
[1:41:43] located, were proposed and
[1:41:44] developed. According to the
[1:41:46] application and the plan. And
[1:41:48] if the plan is submitted and
[1:41:50] and approved, I would point out
[1:41:51] that it is already zoned
[1:41:53] General Industrial, which the
[1:41:54] staff report points out is the
[1:41:55] most intense industrial
[1:41:57] district allowed in the zoning
[1:41:59] ordinance. There are many, much
[1:42:01] more disruptive uses that this
[1:42:02] property could be put to
[1:42:04] without any additional permits
[1:42:07] from the City council. Uh, as
[1:42:08] you heard from MR. Murphy, the
[1:42:09] use of the outdoor enclosure is
[1:42:11] limited by your ordinance. The
[1:42:11] city
[1:42:13] s ordinance. Um, there
[1:42:13] s
[1:42:15] no evidence that
[1:42:15] s been
[1:42:16] submitted so far that the use
[1:42:18] of the enclosure would produce
[1:42:20] noise of any particular level.
[1:42:22] The ordinance addresses this
[1:42:23] and limits the hours of
[1:42:25] operation from 8 A.M. To 6
[1:42:27] P.M.. And the animals cannot be
[1:42:28] out in the outdoor enclosure
[1:42:31] unattended. Uh, also, with
[1:42:33] respect to public health and
[1:42:35] safety, the udl requires that
[1:42:36] the waste be addressed on a
[1:42:38] daily basis and the outdoor
[1:42:39] enclosure would not actually
[1:42:40] increase the amount of waste
[1:42:42] being generated here, because
[1:42:43] no animals can be housed out
[1:42:49] there. The, uh, there is a
[1:42:50] significant elevation
[1:42:50] difference between the
[1:42:52] adjoining properties, creating
[1:42:55] a natural barrier. The
[1:42:56] applicant applicant has agreed
[1:42:58] to plant additional trees
[1:42:59] between where the outdoor
[1:43:01] enclosure area is and the
[1:43:02] adjacent residential
[1:43:04] properties, which will also
[1:43:07] promote health and safety and
[1:43:12] harmony. As shown on the site,
[1:43:15] plan, uh, this the outdoor
[1:43:16] enclosure will not add
[1:43:19] impervious surface. Um. The
[1:43:20] staff report notes that is not
[1:43:22] expected to generate traffic
[1:43:26] problems. And MISS Dolan, uh,
[1:43:27] testified about the community
[1:43:29] need for this. You just heard
[1:43:30] from Rick Brandt on the
[1:43:32] question of substantial injury
[1:43:34] to the adjoining properties.
[1:43:36] And then as for the location
[1:43:38] and whether the location and
[1:43:39] character of the use, if
[1:43:41] developed according to the
[1:43:42] application and plan submitted,
[1:43:43] would be in harmony with the
[1:43:45] area and in conformity with the
[1:43:49] comprehensive plan. Uh, by law,
[1:43:49] there
[1:43:50] s a presumption that if
[1:43:52] this is available in the Udo
[1:43:54] with a special use permit, it
[1:43:57] is in harmony with the area.
[1:43:58] Also, this is a general
[1:43:59] industrial area. There is
[1:44:01] adjoining, general industrial
[1:44:03] use currently to the north and
[1:44:05] then across Chatham to the
[1:44:07] east. It
[1:44:08] s a two acre site.
[1:44:09] We
[1:44:09] re not trying to squeeze
[1:44:11] this in on a on a small home
[1:44:15] site. There is a natural
[1:44:17] separation which is noted on
[1:44:19] the site plan and in the staff
[1:44:19] report that
[1:44:20] s created by the
[1:44:22] significant difference in
[1:44:23] elevation and the existing
[1:44:27] vegetation buffer. Uh, it will
[1:44:29] not be visible from the street.
[1:44:31] The two additional conditions
[1:44:34] that have been requested and
[1:44:36] agreed to for this permit are
[1:44:38] limitation on the size of the
[1:44:39] sign, and also the three
[1:44:41] additional trees. I think those
[1:44:43] both would promote harmony of
[1:44:45] this additional enclosure with
[1:44:49] the surrounding area. Uh, and
[1:44:51] then with respect to forward
[1:44:53] 2045, the staff report notes
[1:44:56] that conformity can be found.
[1:44:57] Uh, I would note that the site
[1:44:59] plan shows the addition of
[1:45:01] sidewalks on this site, which
[1:45:03] would enhance pedestrian
[1:45:04] access, at least on this
[1:45:06] particular lot, which is one
[1:45:09] factor, a goal of the
[1:45:11] comprehensive plan it would be
[1:45:12] putting to use a vacant
[1:45:13] property that
[1:45:13] s been long
[1:45:15] vacant, uh, which also would
[1:45:16] promote a goal of the
[1:45:19] comprehensive plan. And I would
[1:45:20] argue that it will improve the
[1:45:21] aesthetic appearance of this
[1:45:23] site. And the comprehensive
[1:45:25] plan also has, as a goal,
[1:45:28] cleaner and more attractive
[1:45:29] neighborhoods. And so I would
[1:45:31] urge the council to find that
[1:45:32] the four factors have been
[1:45:33] proven. Thank you.
[1:45:36] Thank you very much. All right.
[1:45:37] Excuse me. We will now hear
[1:45:38] from the opposition. If you
[1:45:40] would come forward and state
[1:45:41] your name and address. For the
[1:45:43] record, we have a number of
[1:45:45] individuals signed up for.
[1:45:45] Sure.
[1:45:46] If I MAY, before.
[1:45:52] I run out of oxygen. Um, Tony
[1:45:55] Gaines, I live at, uh, 151 West
[1:45:56] End Boulevard. Uh, prior to
[1:46:00] that, I lived at 173 and 175
[1:46:02] West End or, excuse me, 175 and
[1:46:05] 177 West End Boulevard. All of
[1:46:07] those properties are right
[1:46:10] above. I am the houses, right
[1:46:14] above their proposed spot.
[1:46:18] Noise travels, folks. Uh, there
[1:46:21] is a huge embankment, and I bet
[1:46:21] y
[1:46:24] all will improve the
[1:46:26] neighborhood tremendously. But
[1:46:29] noise travels. If there
[1:46:29] s dogs
[1:46:32] there, dogs are going to bark.
[1:46:33] Rescues bark. I
[1:46:34] ve got a
[1:46:35] 90
[1:46:38] pitbull I rescued last year.
[1:46:40] Prior to that, I had a
[1:46:40] 80
[1:46:43] German Shepherd I rescued or
[1:46:45] they rescued me. But sound
[1:46:47] travels and regardless of how
[1:46:49] many employees you have
[1:46:51] handling these dogs, it
[1:46:51] s going
[1:46:54] to be noisy. So yeah, there
[1:46:58] will be noise. You can only
[1:46:59] control. You
[1:46:59] ve been around
[1:47:01] dogs, you understand? So that
[1:47:02] s
[1:47:05] my concern. Yeah, I was really,
[1:47:07] really opposed to the idea of
[1:47:09] dogs being there and making all
[1:47:11] the noise they could make. But
[1:47:13] yeah, I realize that it could
[1:47:16] be a whole lot worse. Uh, Heinz
[1:47:18] dying fishing, for instance,
[1:47:20] has ruined my $80,000 beautiful
[1:47:23] pickup truck with acid rain.
[1:47:23] But that
[1:47:25] s part of doing a
[1:47:27] business in Winston-Salem. Uh,
[1:47:31] so my challenge is that if
[1:47:31] there
[1:47:32] s anything else that
[1:47:35] could be done to buffer the
[1:47:38] noise because the hill is not
[1:47:39] going to stop the noise. I
[1:47:39] don
[1:47:42] t know if a noise reducing
[1:47:45] wall would help, but that
[1:47:45] s my
[1:47:46] concern. I
[1:47:48] ve got two duplexes
[1:47:49] right up on that hill that I
[1:47:52] ran out. I would hate for my
[1:47:55] tenants to say, we can
[1:47:55] t live
[1:47:58] here because of the dog noise.
[1:47:58] So that
[1:48:00] s my concern. And I was
[1:48:02] able to pay my property taxes
[1:48:04] the other day because of my
[1:48:05] tenants. I don
[1:48:06] t want that to
[1:48:08] change. So that
[1:48:09] s about all I
[1:48:09] have to say.
[1:48:10] Thank you. Thank you, MISS
[1:48:19] Gaines. All right, next.
[1:48:20] Hello again.
[1:48:22] I feel like we were just here.
[1:48:23] Um, yeah. My name is Chris
[1:48:25] Krajewski. I live at 811 North
[1:48:26] Spring Street. Um, I
[1:48:27] m the
[1:48:28] building. I
[1:48:29] m the residence
[1:48:31] directly behind. Um, the the
[1:48:34] Chatham building. Um, the
[1:48:36] pictures that were shown that
[1:48:36] I
[1:48:37] m going off script here, the
[1:48:37] pictures that were shown
[1:48:40] earlier, full summer, all the
[1:48:42] greens there, uh, during the,
[1:48:44] uh, during the winter season,
[1:48:45] all that green is gone. We have
[1:48:47] a direct shot. You know, our
[1:48:48] our yard is the one that backs
[1:48:52] right up to, um, that lot. Um,
[1:48:54] and I understand MR. Mosley has
[1:48:55] been trying to unload this
[1:48:56] property for a long time, and
[1:48:57] I. And I do feel for him, and
[1:48:58] it does sound like the
[1:49:00] proponents made a great case.
[1:49:01] And I think if it does go
[1:49:01] through, I think they
[1:49:01] re going
[1:49:04] to do the right thing. That
[1:49:06] being said, sound travels as
[1:49:08] much as I want to. As much as I
[1:49:10] want to support this. Um, this
[1:49:11] is the second time that I
[1:49:11] ve
[1:49:14] been here. Um, pushing back
[1:49:16] against a dog kennel in 2010,
[1:49:19] Carolina Pet Place wanted the
[1:49:20] same exact thing, but. But in
[1:49:22] the building next door, um, an
[1:49:23] indoor kennel with an outdoor
[1:49:25] dog space. During the day. At
[1:49:26] the time, my daughter and I
[1:49:28] went to the Clemens location,
[1:49:30] parked about as far away from
[1:49:31] the building is where we
[1:49:32] thought our house was was, and
[1:49:34] we could hear dogs inside very
[1:49:38] clearly from that distance. Um,
[1:49:39] we as a neighborhood voiced our
[1:49:41] opposition, uh, right here in
[1:49:44] this room. And, um, the council
[1:49:45] sided with us, and and the
[1:49:46] planning board denied their
[1:49:49] proposal. Um, the argument
[1:49:51] against this kennel is the same
[1:49:53] as it was against that kennel.
[1:49:55] Uh, the proposed site is
[1:49:57] surrounded by homes, many like
[1:49:59] ours, in the historic West End.
[1:50:00] And part of the ambiance of
[1:50:02] that neighborhood is the
[1:50:04] peacefulness we have in living
[1:50:05] in the shadow of a bustling
[1:50:07] downtown, but not in it. And a
[1:50:09] dog kennel is simply not a good
[1:50:10] fit. Even in an area zoned for
[1:50:12] commercial use. We
[1:50:13] re fine with
[1:50:15] the white noise. Hum. I don
[1:50:15] t
[1:50:16] get the acid rain, but we do
[1:50:18] get the white noise hum of the
[1:50:19] machinery from a Heinz dine
[1:50:21] finishing plant. Um, and that
[1:50:22] s
[1:50:23] fine because it is sort of
[1:50:25] white noise, but dogs barking
[1:50:28] is not that. Um, I just feel
[1:50:28] like it
[1:50:29] s going to create
[1:50:30] tremendous noise pollution. Not
[1:50:32] to I, not to mention the smell.
[1:50:33] I think you made a good case
[1:50:34] that that
[1:50:35] s not going to be the
[1:50:36] worst part, but it
[1:50:37] s just as
[1:50:39] far as being conducive to
[1:50:40] living, to residential living
[1:50:42] in this, you know, peaceful
[1:50:44] enclave that is the West End.
[1:50:45] Um, and it
[1:50:46] s hard to say. You
[1:50:48] know, I do take a little bit of
[1:50:52] umbrage on the the fact that it
[1:50:52] didn
[1:50:54] t show property values
[1:50:55] dropping in those certain
[1:50:57] cases, but it
[1:50:58] s hard to put a
[1:51:00] price on quality of life, and
[1:51:01] it
[1:51:02] s hard to put the burden on
[1:51:04] us to prove after the fact that
[1:51:06] it did. In fact, drop our house
[1:51:08] prices, prices, because it
[1:51:09] feels like that kennel is much
[1:51:12] closer than the ones in the um,
[1:51:17] in the examples. Um, so why is.
[1:51:17] It.
[1:51:18] Is, you know, here we go again.
[1:51:20] I, we were just here we, you
[1:51:22] know, you guys opposed a
[1:51:23] nightclub that was proposed at
[1:51:25] the same place due to the noise
[1:51:27] it would create the noise that
[1:51:29] goes straight at us, rises up
[1:51:30] the hill. So whether it
[1:51:30] s cars,
[1:51:32] people, music or dogs barking,
[1:51:33] and it just feels like there
[1:51:35] are other industrial sites in
[1:51:36] Winston that don
[1:51:37] t back up to,
[1:51:39] uh, residential neighborhoods
[1:51:41] with families, some with babies
[1:51:42] and young children. Um, some of
[1:51:43] the young families up on West
[1:51:46] End Boulevard and many of whom,
[1:51:48] like us that have dogs, will no
[1:51:50] doubt join in the barking. If
[1:51:50] there
[1:51:51] s barking out, hear my
[1:51:53] dogs barking inside or barking
[1:51:55] out in the backyard. Um, it
[1:51:56] just feels like it will be
[1:51:58] relentless at some point. And
[1:51:59] we spent a lot of time in our
[1:52:01] backyard year round. It just
[1:52:01] feels like it would be
[1:52:03] detrimental to our home life.
[1:52:05] So I respectfully ask that you
[1:52:06] please protect the integrity of
[1:52:09] this historic neighborhood. Um,
[1:52:11] as it was in Winston-Salem,
[1:52:13] Council has done in prior cases
[1:52:15] and deny this proposal. Thank
[1:52:15] you.
[1:52:26] Cynthia Kelly.
[1:52:29] My name is Cynthia Kelly. I own
[1:52:31] three residential properties in
[1:52:32] the immediate area of the
[1:52:34] proposed commercial dog kennel,
[1:52:37] two of them directly adjoin the
[1:52:39] proposed kennel kennel property
[1:52:41] along the rear property lines,
[1:52:43] and the third is approximately
[1:52:46] 300 yards down the hill. Uh, of
[1:52:46] course, it
[1:52:47] s the historic
[1:52:49] neighborhood of West End. I
[1:52:50] m
[1:52:51] not opposed to progress or
[1:52:53] development. I welcome thought
[1:52:54] development, thoughtful
[1:52:56] development. I
[1:52:57] m undoubtedly a
[1:52:58] bigger supporter of small
[1:53:01] businesses and also animals.
[1:53:02] She gave a great animal
[1:53:03] testimony. I
[1:53:04] m simply asking
[1:53:05] that the development occur in a
[1:53:07] way that is responsible and
[1:53:10] sustainable for all parties. My
[1:53:14] noise concern is that we don
[1:53:14] t
[1:53:15] know what the noise is going to
[1:53:15] be, which they
[1:53:17] ve mentioned.
[1:53:19] Um, that that picture showed a
[1:53:22] lot of kudzu on that hill.
[1:53:24] Faith Kaufman, who sent you all
[1:53:29] a letter, sold me to, um, empty
[1:53:31] lots. And when you look at that
[1:53:33] kudzu, the reason why there
[1:53:33] s
[1:53:34] so much kudzu is because some
[1:53:34] of that we
[1:53:35] re about to clear,
[1:53:35] we
[1:53:37] ve had it surveyed. We
[1:53:37] ve
[1:53:38] got an engineer coming in. I
[1:53:39] m
[1:53:41] building, uh, two residential
[1:53:43] homes on those properties
[1:53:45] because we need housing. And
[1:53:47] part of that engineering
[1:53:49] includes changing the elevation
[1:53:51] on that. So some of their
[1:53:53] argument about elevation will
[1:53:56] be irrelevant over the next
[1:53:58] series of months as we start
[1:54:00] developing those properties.
[1:54:02] And so those properties too,
[1:54:04] will be looking directly at
[1:54:06] that, at that building. Uh, one
[1:54:08] of the buildings will be in the
[1:54:09] two of them will be in the
[1:54:11] historic overlay. One will be
[1:54:13] on 819 with West seventh
[1:54:14] Street, which will be a
[1:54:16] triplex. And as you know, the
[1:54:18] plans for historic overlay are
[1:54:20] extreme. We want to make sure
[1:54:22] in our peers want to make sure
[1:54:23] that it aligns with the
[1:54:25] community and the regulations
[1:54:27] that have already been said.
[1:54:31] And so if the barking, the odor
[1:54:33] waste, and I know you all
[1:54:34] mentioned runoff wasn
[1:54:34] t going
[1:54:36] to be a problem, we
[1:54:37] ve all
[1:54:38] walked outside of an apartment
[1:54:39] complex or been in a park where
[1:54:40] you could, gosh, I smell dog.
[1:54:41] And that
[1:54:42] s not even a kennel.
[1:54:42] That
[1:54:43] s just where people are
[1:54:45] walking their dogs and they so
[1:54:47] happen to relieve themselves.
[1:54:48] So there will definitely be
[1:54:50] those things. Other North
[1:54:51] Carolina communities recognize
[1:54:54] this concern. Wake County
[1:54:56] specifically identifies noise,
[1:55:00] odor, insects and traffic as
[1:55:01] potential impacts associated
[1:55:04] with kennels, and they require
[1:55:05] a setback to be of at least
[1:55:09] 100ft, not the 50ft that you
[1:55:12] all have been describing.
[1:55:15] Excuse me. Um, I noticed the
[1:55:18] housing prices on this sheet.
[1:55:18] We
[1:55:20] re not 650ft from the
[1:55:21] kennel. We
[1:55:22] re one foot from
[1:55:24] their property line. So I don
[1:55:24] t
[1:55:24] know that that
[1:55:25] s relevant
[1:55:26] either. If he doesn
[1:55:27] t have an
[1:55:29] example of a property. That
[1:55:29] s
[1:55:32] right adjacent, and I have to
[1:55:33] right adjacent to that
[1:55:37] particular property line. So I
[1:55:38] don
[1:55:39] t believe homeowners should
[1:55:40] effectively become the
[1:55:43] monitoring. Excuse me. And the
[1:55:44] enforcement system for
[1:55:46] commercial operation. The
[1:55:47] better approach is to determine
[1:55:50] compatibility before the use is
[1:55:52] established. There should be
[1:55:55] clear, objective, site specific
[1:55:57] evidence regarding this noise,
[1:55:59] including relevant distance,
[1:56:03] including relevant elevation
[1:56:05] and also naming. Not only that,
[1:56:09] the dogs will be attended. All
[1:56:10] dogs that are attended still
[1:56:11] bark, so the unattended dog
[1:56:20] park to me is also irrelevant.
[1:56:21] But that being said, I
[1:56:24] respectfully ask that you deny
[1:56:26] or at minimum defer approval
[1:56:28] until these site specific
[1:56:30] issues are independently
[1:56:31] evaluated and made part of the
[1:56:33] record.
[1:56:58] Thank you, Frank fry. MR.
[1:56:58] Mayor.
[1:57:00] Mayor Pro Tem and council
[1:57:03] members. My name is Frank fry.
[1:57:07] I live at 850 Chatham Road and,
[1:57:10] uh. Initially I
[1:57:11] d like to say
[1:57:14] to MR. Sanders and his son, Ben
[1:57:15] that I
[1:57:16] m not always against
[1:57:19] you, you know, but seems like
[1:57:27] was here last AUGUST and my
[1:57:28] concerns have already been
[1:57:33] stated. But Chris, the first
[1:57:36] speaker or second, actually, it
[1:57:40] turned out. But I just want to
[1:57:43] give a little background on the
[1:57:45] the West End, the the Crystal
[1:57:48] tower is part of it, which had
[1:57:50] a resurgence back in around
[1:57:54] 1973. It was pretty much on the
[1:57:57] on the ropes. There were three
[1:57:58] major houses that were brought
[1:58:03] in from one from where? Uh, 500
[1:58:04] West fifth Street is now, the
[1:58:09] old in a gone another from
[1:58:13] where wsj s used to be on fifth
[1:58:18] Street as well. And the third
[1:58:20] was actually beside on the
[1:58:23] underground lot as well. But
[1:58:27] tremendous amount of city
[1:58:28] involvement in that
[1:58:31] neighborhood. And to bring it
[1:58:34] around. And it
[1:58:35] s got many
[1:58:40] challenges. Uh, noise being the
[1:58:45] primary one and this, this all
[1:58:46] the houses up on Western
[1:58:50] Boulevard in a different manner
[1:58:53] than the houses that have been
[1:58:55] talked about, that are close to
[1:58:57] other kennels. These houses has
[1:59:02] been stated before, 40ft high,
[1:59:07] overlooking the dog park. So or
[1:59:11] dog kennel run, whatever it is,
[1:59:12] opportunity to bark is what it
[1:59:17] is. So these these neighbors
[1:59:19] are looking down on it, which
[1:59:24] makes it much different than.
[1:59:27] The examples the appraiser used.
[1:59:33] Uh, the attorney asked that the
[1:59:36] planning staff report be
[1:59:37] entered in as evidence that
[1:59:39] this is not a not a harmful
[1:59:41] thing. Uh, it
[1:59:42] s looking through
[1:59:44] the, the report and there are
[1:59:46] several things that I, you
[1:59:56] know, just being picky. Um. Uh,
[1:59:56] let
[2:00:01] s see. The large trees that
[2:00:09] are going to be planted. For
[2:00:23] this, um. What I
[2:00:24] d like to say
[2:00:27] about Chatham Road, I own the
[2:00:31] building that we were in. Now,
[2:00:34] since 2001. And in that time
[2:00:41] period. Especially in 2001,
[2:00:43] next door to our property was
[2:00:45] the old Chatham manufacturing
[2:00:47] mill. It
[2:00:49] s now apartments which
[2:00:52] are, you know, really nice. So
[2:00:54] that that changed from an
[2:00:57] underutilized building that the
[2:01:00] the roof was collapsing and it
[2:01:04] was pretty much it was sort of
[2:01:05] nip and tuck whether it would
[2:01:07] just survive or not. And now
[2:01:07] it
[2:01:09] s contributing member to the
[2:01:13] neighborhood and to the city on
[2:01:16] the. No. On the noise issue, I
[2:01:20] looked up dog barks compared to
[2:01:23] a Harley Davidson. And they
[2:01:23] re
[2:01:26] about equal for a standard
[2:01:29] Harley Davidson at idle and a
[2:01:32] Harley Davidson accelerating or
[2:01:36] going at road speed. So you can
[2:01:40] imagine. That that
[2:01:42] s a noise
[2:01:44] that people could really not be
[2:01:51] happy with. There are 224 cars,
[2:01:52] I believe. Was the estimate the
[2:01:56] planning staff thought for this
[2:02:00] increase. Um, over the past two
[2:02:01] and a half years, I
[2:02:02] ve walked
[2:02:06] that strip of Chatham past by
[2:02:09] this building a thousand times
[2:02:10] in one direction, a thousand
[2:02:14] times in another. At eight in
[2:02:14] the morning. It
[2:02:16] s beautifully
[2:02:21] quiet. Sundays, Saturdays it
[2:02:22] s
[2:02:24] quiet. It won
[2:02:27] t be quiet in the
[2:02:30] future if this goes through and
[2:02:31] they
[2:02:32] re residential, there are
[2:02:35] a couple of watts on Chatham.
[2:02:37] There was a duplex that was
[2:02:38] torn down, and it
[2:02:39] s now part of
[2:02:41] the Parks Family Trust. They
[2:02:44] plan to put another residential
[2:02:45] building on that. There
[2:02:46] s
[2:02:48] another house just up the
[2:02:48] street from that. That
[2:02:49] s I
[2:02:52] think comes up in SEPTEMBER to
[2:02:54] be torn down and a new
[2:02:58] structure put up. So there is a
[2:03:00] a trend in that area towards
[2:03:03] residential, not towards
[2:03:07] industrial. And sad to say, I
[2:03:07] didn
[2:03:09] t get involved in the
[2:03:11] comprehensive plan. The last
[2:03:15] one, 2011, I think, he said.
[2:03:19] But the industrial use that is
[2:03:23] there currently should have had
[2:03:26] a good look. You know, it
[2:03:28] s a.
[2:03:32] The highest form. Lots, lots of
[2:03:35] negative things can go in site
[2:03:37] would prohibit a lot of that.
[2:03:43] But. I think the comprehensive
[2:03:47] plan was a little off in that
[2:03:48] same area that I walk with my
[2:03:51] dog, which is uh, goes up
[2:03:55] through Jackson Park, which I
[2:03:56] Think there
[2:03:57] s a plan to get rid
[2:04:00] of the park and make little
[2:04:02] boutiques or something there. I
[2:04:02] don
[2:04:05] t know, but there are about
[2:04:10] 40 acres of developable land in
[2:04:12] that area, which is a lot of
[2:04:14] land, a lot of opportunity for
[2:04:18] housing or mixed use or
[2:04:20] something. That land has been
[2:04:24] intentionally held for. Ever
[2:04:26] since Marshall Street was
[2:04:31] expanded. So I feel like I feel
[2:04:33] like that area is on the verge
[2:04:35] of being something better than
[2:04:38] it is now. And I think this
[2:04:40] would be a setback. And I thank
[2:04:42] you for your time.
[2:04:43] Thank you, MR. Friar. All
[2:04:44] right. We
[2:04:45] ll now go back to the
[2:04:46] proponents. You have three
[2:04:48] minutes or so for any rebuttal
[2:04:48] you
[2:04:55] d like to present.
[2:04:57] Well, just with respect to the
[2:04:59] note in the staff report about
[2:05:01] traffic that was looking at a
[2:05:03] change from a church used to a
[2:05:06] kennel, use the actual analysis
[2:05:08] that would be relevant would be
[2:05:10] the traffic difference between
[2:05:12] an indoor kennel use and one
[2:05:14] with an outdoor enclosure.
[2:05:16] Because this is already zoned
[2:05:19] as general industrial. Um, Rick
[2:05:22] Brandt did present to parent
[2:05:24] sales showing properties
[2:05:27] adjacent to kennels that have
[2:05:29] outdoor enclosures so that that
[2:05:31] is directly relevant. And I
[2:05:33] would ask for his slides and
[2:05:34] also Luke Dickie slides to be
[2:05:37] included in the evidence for
[2:05:40] this case. The question before
[2:05:41] the council is a little
[2:05:44] different than with a rezoning.
[2:05:46] Special use permit has to be
[2:05:50] based on competent material
[2:05:53] evidence, including expert
[2:05:54] evidence on the question of
[2:05:55] value and also question of
[2:05:57] traffic for that matter. Um, to
[2:05:59] prove the factors. And then the
[2:06:00] question for y
[2:06:02] all is whether
[2:06:03] that evidence has been
[2:06:06] presented. Um, this is not and
[2:06:06] I
[2:06:06] m I
[2:06:07] m telling you things
[2:06:08] you
[2:06:10] ve already known and
[2:06:11] studied. It
[2:06:12] s a quasi judicial
[2:06:12] hearing. It
[2:06:14] s not a question of
[2:06:15] legislative discretion tonight.
[2:06:16] It
[2:06:17] s a question of judging the
[2:06:19] evidence before you on the
[2:06:21] factors in the ordinance that
[2:06:23] the city has already enacted.
[2:06:23] We
[2:06:24] ve presented competent
[2:06:27] evidence on each one of those.
[2:06:29] Um, and I think this will be a
[2:06:30] way of improving the
[2:06:32] neighborhood and performing a
[2:06:34] service for the community. And
[2:06:36] I would urge you to please, uh,
[2:06:38] approve the permit. Thank you.
[2:06:41] Thank you. Sir. The. Yes, sir.
[2:06:41] If you
[2:06:43] d like to add to that.
[2:06:45] Yes, sir. 11 seconds. MAY I use
[2:06:47] it? Absolutely. My name is
[2:06:49] Sanders Mosley. I have.
[2:06:52] Owned the building since 1994.
[2:06:55] Uh, we had a distribution
[2:06:57] company for medical uniforms
[2:07:00] that went out of business. We
[2:07:03] have since rented to a number
[2:07:06] of places of business. Excuse
[2:07:07] me. I
[2:07:08] m looking at the clock
[2:07:11] closely. The way it is
[2:07:15] currently zoned. I have had two
[2:07:19] unsolicited inquiries since I
[2:07:20] m
[2:07:23] into this contract for trucking
[2:07:25] distribution companies, and
[2:07:29] they can truck into and out of
[2:07:32] there 24 hours a day with no
[2:07:34] additional zoning. And those
[2:07:37] tractor trailers wanted to park
[2:07:41] in the back lot. And there is
[2:07:43] nothing in the zoning, is my
[2:07:45] understanding, that would
[2:07:48] prohibit them from doing that.
[2:07:50] So in my opinion, this is a
[2:07:53] good neighbor use of my
[2:07:54] property.
[2:07:56] Thank you. Thank you, MISTER
[2:08:00] Mosley. All right. Thank you.
[2:08:01] Would the opposition. I
[2:08:02] d like
[2:08:03] to have three minutes of
[2:08:07] rebuttal.
[2:08:09] One second.
[2:08:10] Yes. If you give your name and
[2:08:13] address for the record, please.
[2:08:14] Hi.
[2:08:17] My name is Sophia Nazareth. I
[2:08:19] live at 816 West eighth Street,
[2:08:22] which is in 500ft of the back
[2:08:23] lot, where they
[2:08:23] re going to
[2:08:27] have their outdoor kennel. Um,
[2:08:28] I have a dog. I
[2:08:29] m not anti
[2:08:32] animal or anti rescue at all.
[2:08:35] Um, but I am a little bit
[2:08:37] concerned about this changing
[2:08:39] the amount of noise in the
[2:08:41] neighborhood. And I don
[2:08:41] t think
[2:08:43] that was addressed like
[2:08:46] adequately to me. Um, we all
[2:08:49] know that amplifiers glide up,
[2:08:53] noise travels up. Um, one dog
[2:08:55] barks in our neighborhood. All
[2:08:56] the dogs start barking in our
[2:08:59] neighborhood. We have on eighth
[2:09:00] Street, where I am two
[2:09:03] industrial companies. They both
[2:09:05] are pretty quiet. So it
[2:09:05] s not
[2:09:07] that we do not live with
[2:09:09] industry. We do. And it gets
[2:09:12] along fine with us. Um, I think
[2:09:14] this is different. So I would
[2:09:16] just recommend that without
[2:09:18] really understanding how the
[2:09:23] sound will travel, that it we
[2:09:24] don
[2:09:24] t want to have to be
[2:09:30] calling for animal noises every
[2:09:32] day because dogs are barking.
[2:09:33] And I do fear that that would
[2:09:35] be what happens. We have all
[2:09:36] these dogs barking. It
[2:09:37] s 15
[2:09:39] minutes. After 15 minutes. You
[2:09:42] can call for a violation of
[2:09:46] noise. I think that that is
[2:09:47] possibly what would happen
[2:09:49] here. All right. Thank you.
[2:09:51] Thank you. Anyone else? Yes,
[2:09:51] ma
[2:09:58] am.
[2:10:00] Understanding that this is what
[2:10:02] you are calling a quasi
[2:10:04] judicial process and rebuttal
[2:10:06] to the argument. I
[2:10:06] d like to
[2:10:07] name three things that were
[2:10:10] irrelevant to this argument.
[2:10:11] One was the elevation. Because
[2:10:13] the elevation will change
[2:10:14] within the next 12 months. Once
[2:10:17] I get my engineering. Um,
[2:10:20] redrawn to, that means that the
[2:10:21] noise that he
[2:10:21] s talking about
[2:10:24] is going to change. And then
[2:10:28] the third thing is going to be
[2:10:30] the the runoff of the water
[2:10:32] will then also impact the
[2:10:34] neighboring, uh, apartments and
[2:10:36] also houses that are going to
[2:10:44] be built in the area.
[2:10:45] Thank you. Anyone else for the
[2:10:48] opposition? All right. Seeing
[2:10:49] no one, I
[2:10:50] ll declare the public
[2:10:52] hearing closed and would
[2:10:58] recognize Councilmember Hall.
[2:11:02] Thank you. Mayor Jones. Uh,
[2:11:03] thank you for everybody
[2:11:04] tonight. Thank you to my
[2:11:06] colleagues pressing through,
[2:11:11] um, with this hearing. Um, we
[2:11:12] heard a lot of concerns
[2:11:14] tonight. Um, from the
[2:11:16] proponents and the opponents of
[2:11:20] this, uh, special use permit.
[2:11:23] And I would just like to state
[2:11:27] that I would hope that, um, if
[2:11:30] this is approved tonight, that
[2:11:32] the proponents would as best as
[2:11:35] possible, um, remember all of
[2:11:37] the concerns that were lifted
[2:11:41] tonight, particularly from the
[2:11:44] opponents, as best they can and
[2:11:46] consider these concerns moving
[2:11:48] forward with any possible
[2:11:53] development on the site. Um,
[2:11:54] and just for clarity, since
[2:11:59] this is a, um, quasi quasi
[2:12:02] judicial act. Um, I am
[2:12:06] confirming, uh, the four
[2:12:10] findings of fact for granting a
[2:12:14] special use permit. Um, and
[2:12:17] Mayor Jones, if, um, if I am
[2:12:18] incorrect, I would like for
[2:12:21] Director Murphy to say no,
[2:12:21] you
[2:12:22] re not right. If that is
[2:12:26] the case. Um, for findings of
[2:12:30] fact, um, that staff in
[2:12:32] particular, um, also went
[2:12:34] through. And their report is,
[2:12:37] um, public health and safety
[2:12:39] that, um, the use will not
[2:12:42] materially endanger the public
[2:12:45] health or safety if located
[2:12:46] where the proposed and
[2:12:51] developed, um, and developed um
[2:12:54] application plan as submitted
[2:12:55] and approved. I think we do
[2:12:57] have a slide for that. Um, but
[2:12:58] I want to make sure that that
[2:13:02] is the case. And then also the
[2:13:04] other finding of fact, um, that
[2:13:06] we were to be listening for
[2:13:09] tonight was that this use meets
[2:13:11] all required conditions and
[2:13:12] specifications, and that would
[2:13:14] be in alignment to just
[2:13:15] essentially ordinance
[2:13:19] compliance. And then the other
[2:13:21] thing, um, the for the other
[2:13:24] finding effect, um, would be
[2:13:26] that this use as presented will
[2:13:29] not substantially, um, endure
[2:13:31] the value of adjoining or
[2:13:33] abutting property value. So
[2:13:33] basically we
[2:13:34] re talking about
[2:13:37] property values not being, um,
[2:13:41] endangered. And then the other,
[2:13:43] um, finding of fact that the
[2:13:44] location and the character of
[2:13:46] the proposed use, if it
[2:13:47] s
[2:13:48] developed according to the
[2:13:50] application and the plan that
[2:13:53] was submitted, um, would be in
[2:13:55] harmony with the area and then
[2:13:58] also to be in conformity with
[2:14:02] the for 2045.
[2:14:03] Councilmember Hall, I
[2:14:04] m.
[2:14:05] Sorry, Councilmember Hall, I
[2:14:07] will say that as to findings
[2:14:10] one, two, and four, that is the
[2:14:12] fact that is what staff
[2:14:15] believes, that those three
[2:14:18] findings have been met in
[2:14:22] regards to, um, this project
[2:14:23] staff does not have the
[2:14:26] technical expertise to address,
[2:14:27] uh, finding number three,
[2:14:29] dealing with property values.
[2:14:30] Uh, that
[2:14:31] s something that you
[2:14:32] have to, uh, you know, again,
[2:14:34] the whole thing is based on the
[2:14:37] hearing staff put forward our
[2:14:38] thoughts on the three findings,
[2:14:39] but you have to make an
[2:14:41] independent decision related to
[2:14:42] the property values based on
[2:14:44] what you heard. As far as the
[2:14:45] testimony was tonight.
[2:14:47] Thank you. I appreciate that.
[2:14:49] So let that be noted. For the
[2:14:53] record. Um, and with that, uh,
[2:14:55] and everything that I heard
[2:14:57] tonight and based off of those
[2:15:00] findings, I moved that based
[2:15:01] upon the application, the
[2:15:03] testimony and the evidence
[2:15:05] presented at this public
[2:15:07] hearing. That one the City
[2:15:09] Council affirmed the four
[2:15:11] findings as required by section
[2:15:16] 3.2.13 e6a of the Unified
[2:15:20] Development Ordinances, and two.
[2:15:21] The City Council approved the
[2:15:23] site plan that is included with
[2:15:25] the Special Use Permit request,
[2:15:27] along with the conditions
[2:15:29] included in the Special Use
[2:15:32] Permit and Staff Report, and
[2:15:35] three the City Council approved
[2:15:39] w-3, six, seven, six and issued
[2:15:41] a special use permit to
[2:15:44] Concrete Supply Company, llc
[2:15:48] for establishment of an indoor
[2:15:51] enclosure for outdoor enclosure
[2:15:56] for a kennel, indoor use in g-1
[2:16:01] zoning district. Yes city.
[2:16:02] Is there a second to that
[2:16:03] motion?
[2:16:05] Just a moment. Um, Mayor Jones,
[2:16:05] I believe.
[2:16:05] Just minute.
[2:16:06] Councilor. Yes, sir.
[2:16:08] Just a minute. Have you
[2:16:10] finished your total motion?
[2:16:10] Yes. Is there a problem with
[2:16:11] the motion?
[2:16:13] Yes, sir. Yes, sir.
[2:16:13] Um, I just wanted.
[2:16:15] To correct that. I believe that
[2:16:16] we, um, that it
[2:16:17] s, um, three
[2:16:19] six, nine one.
[2:16:21] Um. And I think you said. Three
[2:16:23] seven something. I apologize
[2:16:25] for that. And then, um, there
[2:16:26] was something.
[2:16:29] Related to an llc.
[2:16:31] A concrete company. I don
[2:16:31] t
[2:16:31] think that
[2:16:33] s a part of the
[2:16:34] issue.
[2:16:36] It sounds like the sample
[2:16:37] motion MAY have been barred
[2:16:38] from the last time we had a
[2:16:39] special use permit, which was
[2:16:41] for expansion of an asphalt and
[2:16:43] concrete plant on Lowry Street.
[2:16:45] The proper case number is w
[2:16:48] 3691, and this would be for an
[2:16:50] outdoor enclosure for a kennel,
[2:16:52] indoor use.
[2:16:52] Yes.
[2:16:53] So if you could just amend your
[2:16:54] motion.
[2:16:56] For to to correct that for the
[2:16:57] record, I.
[2:16:59] Will. And thank you Mayor
[2:17:02] Jones. I move that based upon
[2:17:04] the application, testimony and
[2:17:05] evidence presented at the
[2:17:07] public hearing that one the
[2:17:10] City Council affirmed the four
[2:17:12] findings as required by section
[2:17:17] 3.2.13 e6a of the Unified
[2:17:19] Development Ordinances, and
[2:17:21] two. The City Council approved
[2:17:23] the site plan that is included
[2:17:24] with this special use permit
[2:17:26] request, along with the
[2:17:28] conditions included in the
[2:17:30] Special Use Permit and Staff
[2:17:33] Report, and three the City
[2:17:38] Council approved w dash 3691
[2:17:41] and issue a special use permit
[2:17:44] for establishment of an outdoor
[2:17:47] enclosure for a kennel, indoor
[2:17:51] use in a g one zoning district.
[2:17:52] Very good. Now, is there a
[2:17:54] second? Second. Second by
[2:17:55] Councilmember Clark. Any
[2:17:57] further discussion questions?
[2:18:00] Uh, customer Clark, for the
[2:18:05] record, I do have two dogs.
[2:18:06] I do.
[2:18:08] Have two indoor kennels with
[2:18:10] runs. To the best of my
[2:18:12] knowledge, in the West ward,
[2:18:13] one is behind Duke
[2:18:13] s
[2:18:15] restaurant, which is, I think
[2:18:15] it
[2:18:18] s an adoption type place.
[2:18:20] Uh, I eat at Duke
[2:18:20] s
[2:18:21] periodically. I get my car
[2:18:23] washed next door to that one
[2:18:25] regularly. I have never smelled
[2:18:27] anything, nor I have I. Have I
[2:18:30] ever heard a dog bark there? I
[2:18:32] have another indoor kennel
[2:18:33] which does have an outdoor run
[2:18:37] further out. Country club, uh,
[2:18:38] kind of near where the driving
[2:18:40] range is way out there. I
[2:18:40] ve
[2:18:42] never gotten a complaint on it.
[2:18:45] I have two dog runs at
[2:18:47] Meadowlark School. I used to
[2:18:48] take my dogs there a while
[2:18:49] back. Uh, I
[2:18:50] ve never gotten a
[2:18:52] complaint there about barking.
[2:18:54] I have said on this council for
[2:18:56] 25 years, and I had probably
[2:18:58] count on one hand the number of
[2:18:58] calls I
[2:19:01] ve got on barking dogs.
[2:19:02] Uh, but that
[2:19:04] s not why I would
[2:19:08] like to speak. This property
[2:19:12] has the most broadest, worst
[2:19:17] zoning you can imagine. General
[2:19:20] industrial. You mentioned a
[2:19:22] cement plant, asphalt plants.
[2:19:24] We have a hard time getting
[2:19:26] those cited because they are
[2:19:28] not good neighbors. You could
[2:19:32] have a lot of things, and I
[2:19:34] simply would suggest, be
[2:19:37] careful what you ask for. And I
[2:19:38] will be supporting the motion.
[2:19:40] Very good. Oh, do you have a
[2:19:42] motion to approve this item?
[2:19:43] All those in favor, please
[2:19:44] indicate by voting yes. Anyone
[2:19:51] opposed? Vote no. My computer
[2:19:51] s
[2:20:02] down. The motion passes in
[2:20:04] favor of seven. In favor one
[2:20:05] opposed. Councilmember Burke
[2:20:07] voting no. Thank you very much.
[2:20:10] Councilmember Hall of love
[2:20:12] verbiage. There. All right, so
[2:20:14] now go to the public comment
[2:20:16] period, which is the time that
[2:20:18] the City Council now set aside
[2:20:20] for citizens to voice their
[2:20:21] opinions on matters that are
[2:20:24] germane to city government when
[2:20:25] the comment period is called,
[2:20:26] each speaker will be given
[2:20:27] three minutes for presentation
[2:20:29] and the total amount of the
[2:20:30] public comment period will be
[2:20:32] 30 minutes. Uh, do we have the
[2:20:34] list of speakers?
[2:20:49] Uh.
[2:20:52] Okay. First person signed up as
[2:20:54] Benjamin Gaither. If you would
[2:20:55] please state your name and
[2:20:56] address. For the record, MR.
[2:20:58] Gaither.
[2:20:59] Um.
[2:21:00] Hello, my name is Benjamin
[2:21:04] Gaither. Uh, my address is 281
[2:21:05] Village Creek Circle,
[2:21:08] Winston-Salem. And, uh, I
[2:21:08] m a
[2:21:10] student of Winston-Salem State
[2:21:13] University. Uh, today was the
[2:21:15] first day of classes, and I
[2:21:17] parked my car. I noticed
[2:21:18] something different this
[2:21:21] semester. Uh, Alper. Cameras,
[2:21:24] uh, from Flock Safety, uh, had
[2:21:26] been added to the entrances and
[2:21:29] exits. Uh, so instead of
[2:21:31] studying between classes, I
[2:21:32] chose to write the words that
[2:21:33] you
[2:21:35] re hearing. Now, I
[2:21:35] m not
[2:21:37] here to tell you to remove
[2:21:39] them. I would work with the
[2:21:40] university for something like
[2:21:44] that. Uh, no. I am here to tell
[2:21:47] you what countless Americans
[2:21:49] and listeners Elamites have
[2:21:51] been going through over the
[2:21:54] past year. Right now, you can
[2:21:57] go to the morgue and see where
[2:21:59] the alp is in our community.
[2:22:02] Are. I noticed that many of
[2:22:04] them were placed in parking
[2:22:06] lots, like Hanes Mall or Home
[2:22:09] Depot. Uh, even some in
[2:22:11] apartment complexes or a
[2:22:12] s. And
[2:22:12] I think that
[2:22:13] s a little bit
[2:22:17] messed up. Um, I understand
[2:22:20] that these APIs are paid for by
[2:22:23] private groups and companies.
[2:22:24] Uh, I would not say I
[2:22:25] m against
[2:22:27] the use of cameras to keep
[2:22:30] parking lots peaceful. Uh, what
[2:22:33] I am against is much nearer and
[2:22:37] significantly more irking, um,
[2:22:39] being a computer science major,
[2:22:41] I know a few things about cyber
[2:22:43] security. When you conne a
[2:22:44] device to the internet, you
[2:22:46] allow the ability for your
[2:22:48] device to be hacked by someone
[2:22:51] else. Far cameras have no real
[2:22:54] vulnerabilities and information
[2:22:56] collected from them can be
[2:22:57] shared with other police
[2:23:00] departments across the United
[2:23:01] States with no requirements for
[2:23:05] warrants. This semester, when I
[2:23:07] should be in classes, listening
[2:23:09] to instructors, I will be
[2:23:10] worried about who
[2:23:11] s watching
[2:23:14] me. My peers will worry about
[2:23:15] their license plates being
[2:23:18] misread and police officers
[2:23:20] claiming that they have a
[2:23:23] stolen vehicle. Uh, most
[2:23:25] importantly, everyone will
[2:23:27] wonder what will happen next.
[2:23:29] Uh, axon is currently
[2:23:32] developing Taser armed drones
[2:23:35] that are for active shooters.
[2:23:37] Um, situations on public
[2:23:40] schools. Will my university
[2:23:41] decide to implement these
[2:23:44] measures for our safety? Uh,
[2:23:46] but if Fox decides to track
[2:23:48] more than just cars in the
[2:23:51] future, right. Uh, will my
[2:23:53] university have a choice in
[2:23:57] that? Who watches the watchers
[2:23:58] with a closed circuit
[2:24:00] television camera system? None
[2:24:01] of the cameras.
[2:24:04] Are open to.
[2:24:05] Yeah.
[2:24:15] Uh, Olivia Doyle.
[2:24:16] Hello, y
[2:24:16] all.
[2:24:16] Aren
[2:24:17] t you excited to be going
[2:24:20] home soon? Um. I Doyle, 1/12
[2:24:23] Street. So hideout is here
[2:24:24] because we still have not been
[2:24:25] invited. Well, actually, we
[2:24:26] just got an invitation
[2:24:28] informally earlier today, but
[2:24:28] we haven
[2:24:29] t been invited to
[2:24:30] present our legal defense of
[2:24:31] our proposal to stop local
[2:24:33] cannabis arrests. We are still
[2:24:34] asking for the meeting that
[2:24:36] Mayor Pro Tem Adams, uh,
[2:24:37] promised to get our ordinance
[2:24:38] through the General Government
[2:24:39] Committee. But while we are
[2:24:41] waiting for that, we would like
[2:24:42] to deliver the legal analysis
[2:24:43] that we have received from
[2:24:45] civil rights litigator Jaylen
[2:24:46] Miller of Emancipate North
[2:24:48] Carolina. Attorney Miller has
[2:24:49] concluded, as you should have
[2:24:50] read in her email earlier
[2:24:51] today, that Dillon
[2:24:52] s rule is
[2:24:54] not a reasonable barrier to
[2:24:55] mandatory sign release or
[2:24:56] lowest law enforcement
[2:24:58] priority. Attorney Miller could
[2:24:59] not find an instance in which
[2:25:01] the city engaged with our legal
[2:25:02] argument, supporting these
[2:25:03] proposed policies, but she did
[2:25:06] find two instances where a
[2:25:07] manager paid an attorney.
[2:25:09] French challenged our proposal
[2:25:10] again without responding
[2:25:11] directly to our defense. Using
[2:25:12] North Carolina General Statute
[2:25:15] 58 302 by citing Dillon
[2:25:16] s Rule
[2:25:16] as though Dillon
[2:25:17] s Rule is this
[2:25:19] impenetrable obstacle to
[2:25:20] preventing arrests for
[2:25:21] misdemeanor cannabis. Cannabis
[2:25:23] possession and Winston. It is
[2:25:25] not. In fact, according to her
[2:25:26] analysis, Dillon
[2:25:26] s rule might
[2:25:27] not even apply in North
[2:25:30] Carolina, particularly in this
[2:25:32] instance. So we are asking you
[2:25:33] still to pass two policies
[2:25:35] mandatory sign release and
[2:25:36] lowest level enforcement
[2:25:37] priority for misdemeanor
[2:25:39] possession, because as of right
[2:25:40] now, without those
[2:25:42] decriminalization measures,
[2:25:43] black and Latino residents are
[2:25:45] being stopped and incarcerated
[2:25:46] more often for things like
[2:25:48] this. This is a hemp derived
[2:25:50] blunt that I bought a couple
[2:25:51] hours ago, and Council member
[2:25:52] Clark
[2:25:53] s ward, just across the
[2:25:55] street from a church. And if if
[2:25:56] I take it outside the tube, I
[2:25:57] walk because I know the smell
[2:25:59] gives some people a headache.
[2:26:00] But if I take it outside of the
[2:26:01] tube, I assure you you would
[2:26:02] not be able to tell the
[2:26:03] difference between this and
[2:26:05] illegal cannabis. It
[2:26:06] s a blunt.
[2:26:08] So unless we want to continue
[2:26:09] the racist governance that was
[2:26:10] set up by the likes of City
[2:26:11] Manager, Gold or Mayor
[2:26:13] Cavanaugh, we need to prevent
[2:26:14] the racially disproportionate
[2:26:15] enforcement for possessing
[2:26:17] things that look and smell like
[2:26:19] this. Despite Chief Pence
[2:26:20] claims that the weed in
[2:26:22] Winston-Salem is not mellowing
[2:26:23] people out, I can assure you
[2:26:25] that this blunt is not going to
[2:26:26] make me go on a rampage. In
[2:26:28] fact, this one is labeled as an
[2:26:29] indica strain, and that usually
[2:26:32] just makes me go to sleep. So
[2:26:34] once again, we are asking that
[2:26:35] our ordinance proposal be
[2:26:36] pushed through the General
[2:26:38] Government Committee. I also
[2:26:40] want to follow up with um,
[2:26:41] Councilmember Andrew Bone about
[2:26:42] the meeting that was proposed
[2:26:44] earlier today and formally. And
[2:26:45] we are asking this with the
[2:26:46] understanding that Dillon
[2:26:46] s
[2:26:49] rule is not a barrier to our
[2:26:51] proposed ordinance passage. I
[2:26:51] m
[2:26:54] going to leave a copy, a couple
[2:26:54] copies of Attorney Miller
[2:26:55] s
[2:26:56] analysis, as well as the
[2:26:57] ordinance proposal that we
[2:26:57] ve
[2:26:57] sent y
[2:26:59] all a couple of times,
[2:27:00] just in case you need it to
[2:27:03] read over again. Thank you.
[2:27:04] Thank you. Matthew Mares,
[2:27:17] please.
[2:27:19] Getting sleepy back there. Hey,
[2:27:20] Matthew.
[2:27:21] My name is Matthew Mayers. I
[2:27:24] live at two, 844 Wesleyan Lane.
[2:27:26] I wanted to, um, first of all,
[2:27:27] uh, call out some really
[2:27:28] positive things that have
[2:27:30] happened recently, echoing one
[2:27:31] one thing MR. Pate was talking
[2:27:33] about earlier, the incredible
[2:27:34] response by utilities when the
[2:27:37] water main broke, that was that
[2:27:39] was like superhuman. Um, and,
[2:27:42] uh, another I just have to go
[2:27:43] on record for your amusement
[2:27:44] saying, I
[2:27:45] m so glad the fire
[2:27:47] department is driving their
[2:27:50] SUVs more, um, probably not
[2:27:51] something you expected me to
[2:27:53] say. Driving your suv more
[2:27:55] makes me happy. But if it
[2:27:56] s as
[2:27:57] opposed to driving a big fire
[2:27:57] engine, that
[2:27:58] s a great thing.
[2:27:59] And especially if it
[2:27:59] s less
[2:28:01] than, respond better to, uh,
[2:28:04] emergency situations. But I
[2:28:04] m
[2:28:06] really here to offer kind of
[2:28:07] like a public service
[2:28:09] announcement to you all. Pretty
[2:28:10] soon, I think you
[2:28:10] re going to
[2:28:13] be getting the report on your
[2:28:16] property. Um, evaluation of the
[2:28:17] the state of the property
[2:28:19] inventory for the city. And
[2:28:21] after that, I hope making some
[2:28:22] decisions about how you want to
[2:28:24] improve those properties in
[2:28:26] lots of ways, and I hope,
[2:28:28] including the monitoring and
[2:28:30] efficiency of energy use in
[2:28:32] them. So the public service
[2:28:33] announcement part is to let you
[2:28:35] know that among the tools in
[2:28:37] your in your toolbox going
[2:28:39] forward, on top of things like,
[2:28:40] you know, bond issues and all
[2:28:42] of that, um, if you haven
[2:28:42] t
[2:28:43] seen a couple of a couple of
[2:28:44] weeks ago in Raleigh, they
[2:28:47] passed, uh, Senate Bill 445,
[2:28:48] which was a regulatory reform
[2:28:52] bill, and a part of it, um, was
[2:28:55] to streamline the process of
[2:28:57] letting government and entities
[2:29:00] enter into, uh, guaranteed
[2:29:02] energy savings contracts. And
[2:29:03] if you probably are somewhat
[2:29:05] familiar with those, but again,
[2:29:09] for public record, it allows
[2:29:10] city governments or other
[2:29:12] entities to contract with a
[2:29:14] third party. Um, not have to
[2:29:16] put forth a bunch of cash
[2:29:18] necessarily, and start to see
[2:29:20] savings from, uh, from energy
[2:29:23] efficiency right away. Is it as
[2:29:25] good a deal, not a dollar for
[2:29:25] dollar. But you don
[2:29:26] t have to
[2:29:28] come up with a cash. So in that
[2:29:30] sense, it can be a real unlock
[2:29:33] for moving forward on things.
[2:29:35] Um, and since I have 48
[2:29:35] seconds, I
[2:29:36] ll also mention
[2:29:38] House Bill 162 also passed,
[2:29:40] which means no more parking
[2:29:41] limits, no more parking
[2:29:43] minimums, I should say. Which I
[2:29:43] know that
[2:29:44] s somewhat
[2:29:46] controversial, but think of how
[2:29:47] marvelous that
[2:29:48] s going to be
[2:29:49] for opening up housing in the
[2:29:50] city. I know there will be
[2:29:52] people who are a little upset,
[2:29:55] but this is a good thing for,
[2:29:57] um, improving density and
[2:29:59] fighting against sprawl. So
[2:30:00] hooray for that and I hope you
[2:30:01] have a good night. I think I
[2:30:01] m
[2:30:02] last, so y
[2:30:03] all get to go home.
[2:30:04] Good night.
[2:30:05] Thank you, MR. Mares. Is there
[2:30:07] anyone else who wants to speak
[2:30:08] during the public comment
[2:30:08] period? Yes, ma
[2:30:16] am.
[2:30:20] I have to put my shoes on.
[2:30:21] Hi, all. My name is Marilyn
[2:30:23] Mendiola dela Cruz. I live in
[2:30:24] Mebane and I don
[2:30:25] t have a home
[2:30:26] address. Um, I
[2:30:27] m here because I
[2:30:29] stand in solidarity and in full
[2:30:30] support with hate out
[2:30:32] Winston-Salem fair Justice and
[2:30:33] Safety Act, which I try and
[2:30:35] see, supports a youth policy
[2:30:36] that did decriminalize a small
[2:30:37] amount of marijuana possession
[2:30:39] by minors through sight and
[2:30:41] release, and diversion, while
[2:30:43] keeping criminal penalties for
[2:30:43] selling, trafficking,
[2:30:46] distribution, driving and
[2:30:48] adults supplying marijuana to
[2:30:50] minors. North Carolina General
[2:30:53] statute statute 90-95 currently
[2:30:56] makes possession of schedule
[2:30:58] six controlled substance, a
[2:31:00] class three misdemeanor with
[2:31:01] marijuana penalties increasing
[2:31:03] by quantity. Possession over
[2:31:06] the half one half ounce becomes
[2:31:08] a class one misdemeanor, and
[2:31:10] possession over one and one
[2:31:11] half ounce becomes class one
[2:31:12] felony. We should not treat
[2:31:14] teenagers caught with small
[2:31:15] personal use amount the same
[2:31:16] way that we treat someone
[2:31:18] selling drugs to children. The
[2:31:20] policy should be simple seize
[2:31:22] the substance issue site,
[2:31:24] notify parent guardian when
[2:31:25] appropriate. Connect the young
[2:31:27] person to education,
[2:31:28] assessment, counseling,
[2:31:29] diversion and keep them out of
[2:31:31] detention. Unnecessary and
[2:31:34] unnecessary criminal processing
[2:31:36] the person selling it is a
[2:31:37] different enforcement problem.
[2:31:38] North Carolina already
[2:31:40] recognizes that youth justice
[2:31:42] can use interventions other
[2:31:43] than incarceration under
[2:31:46] chapter seven seven. Be
[2:31:47] juvenile courts can impose
[2:31:48] counseling, community service,
[2:31:49] substance abuse programming,
[2:31:51] supervision, curfews as
[2:31:52] conditions of juvenile
[2:31:55] dispositions. There is also
[2:31:56] useful historical comparison
[2:31:59] with tobacco. In 1998, the cdc
[2:32:01] documented the 42 states had
[2:32:03] laws prohibiting minors from
[2:32:05] purchasing, possessing, or
[2:32:06] prohibiting selling or
[2:32:07] distribution of tobacco to
[2:32:08] minors. North Carolina
[2:32:10] specifically prohibits minors
[2:32:11] from purchasing tobacco and
[2:32:14] classified the violation as a
[2:32:17] class two misdemeanor. The
[2:32:19] policy lesson is that we can
[2:32:20] regulate youth access and hold
[2:32:21] sellers accountable without
[2:32:23] making criminalization of the
[2:32:25] young person the primary
[2:32:29] intervention. Um, I support
[2:32:32] narrowly written safety focus.
[2:32:37] I support. Sorry, I need
[2:32:40] reading glasses. North Carolina
[2:32:44] general statute. Um. 153a-142
[2:32:46] expressly authorizes counties
[2:32:50] to impose a curfew on anyone 18
[2:32:53] and under 18 in North Carolina,
[2:32:55] law also provides municipal
[2:32:56] authority for juvenile curfews.
[2:32:57] But the curfew has to be
[2:32:59] written around safety, not
[2:33:01] punishment. There should be
[2:33:05] explicit exceptions for work,
[2:33:06] school, religious services,
[2:33:08] organized activities, Medicare,
[2:33:10] medical care, transportation,
[2:33:11] or even coming out to city
[2:33:12] council to be able to speak
[2:33:14] because, you know, it goes
[2:33:18] after nine. Um, and not turning
[2:33:19] ordinary presence in public
[2:33:20] into unnecessary,
[2:33:21] disproportionately racially
[2:33:24] targeted arrest or criminal
[2:33:25] records. Our standards should
[2:33:27] be simple hold adults, dealers,
[2:33:29] traffickers accountable, yada
[2:33:32] yada yada and not putting our
[2:33:33] kids into the criminal justice
[2:33:34] pipeline.
[2:33:36] Thank you.
[2:33:37] Anyone else for the public
[2:33:39] comment? Period.
[2:33:44] I would like to say something.
[2:33:46] Um, my name is Sarah Girard.
[2:33:49] Uh, 216 West Banner Avenue. I
[2:33:52] also came to support hate outs,
[2:33:54] um, initiatives on
[2:33:55] decriminalization. I
[2:33:56] m very
[2:33:58] concerned about our federal
[2:34:00] government and the fact that we
[2:34:03] have both white supremacist and
[2:34:05] white nationalists in office
[2:34:08] right now, and the trickle down
[2:34:11] of that to us. Uh, I finally,
[2:34:15] like I can only I think a lot
[2:34:18] of globally and nationally and
[2:34:20] internationally, but locally is
[2:34:22] the only place I can really
[2:34:26] have enough impact. And. I
[2:34:27] m
[2:34:28] just very concerned about that.
[2:34:33] And I want to try to get
[2:34:35] support from my local officials
[2:34:38] and protecting the community.
[2:34:40] So in things like not
[2:34:44] overpolicing, um, people for
[2:34:47] things that are not really
[2:34:50] crimes, I mean, we, we have
[2:34:51] well, I can we
[2:34:54] ve sorry, i
[2:34:54] m a
[2:34:55] little nervous. I didn
[2:34:56] t put
[2:35:00] anything to speak. So, um, but
[2:35:03] things like, uh, not how are we
[2:35:05] going to protect our citizens
[2:35:07] in general? And with things
[2:35:11] like the, um, Ice raids and ice
[2:35:14] stops there? Um, we
[2:35:15] ve had our
[2:35:16] sheriff say we can
[2:35:16] t do
[2:35:18] anything because this is, you
[2:35:21] know, this is federal, but who
[2:35:24] will protect our citizens when
[2:35:26] you have federal officers doing
[2:35:29] things that are illegal? So I
[2:35:30] just wanted to speak in
[2:35:32] solidarity with hate out. And
[2:35:35] also, um, say that I plan to
[2:35:37] attend meetings more regularly
[2:35:41] because I want to, um, have our
[2:35:43] local officials protecting our
[2:35:45] citizens. Thank you.
[2:35:48] Thank you. And someone else
[2:35:55] wanted to speak.
[2:35:57] Hello? Hello, I
[2:35:58] m Charlotte, I
[2:35:59] live in Greensboro. Although
[2:36:00] some of you will have seen me
[2:36:02] around a fair bit. Uh, Olivia
[2:36:03] already covered everything
[2:36:04] pretty thoroughly, so I just
[2:36:06] want to say that, uh, I also
[2:36:08] stand in solidarity with hate
[2:36:09] out and, uh, support the
[2:36:11] Winston-Salem Fair Justice and
[2:36:12] Public Safety Act.
[2:36:14] Thank you. Thank you very much.
[2:36:15] Anyone else during the public
[2:36:15] comment.
[2:36:18] Period?
[2:36:19] All right. See you then. When
[2:36:19] I
[2:36:21] ll close the public comment
[2:36:22] period. We do have the need to
[2:36:25] go into a closed session. MR..
[2:36:26] Tim Adams has a motion, I
[2:36:28] believe. Councilmember Clark, I
[2:36:29] make a comment before we do
[2:36:31] that brief comment. I was at a
[2:36:32] meeting the other day. I don
[2:36:32] t
[2:36:33] remember which one, but the
[2:36:34] police chief was there and I
[2:36:36] specifically asked the
[2:36:39] question, how many cameras does
[2:36:41] the city, Winston-Salem have?
[2:36:46] And he said none. No, you asked
[2:36:47] it. I asked.
[2:36:48] If.
[2:36:50] But anyway, we both asked it.
[2:36:50] But that
[2:36:53] s what he said. All
[2:36:55] right. The answer was the same.
[2:36:55] All right.
[2:36:57] Thank you.
[2:36:58] All around..
[2:36:59] It must have been different,
[2:37:00] sir. We
[2:37:01] re not talking back and
[2:37:02] forth in the audience. Mayor
[2:37:03] Pro tem.
[2:37:04] Yes. I move.
[2:37:05] For the city council to go into
[2:37:07] closed session pursuant to
[2:37:10] North Carolina General Statute
[2:37:16] 143318.1186 to conduct the City
[2:37:16] Manager
[2:37:17] s annual performance
[2:37:18] evaluation.
[2:37:19] Thank you. Second.
[2:37:20] Second.
[2:37:21] All in favor of the motion,
[2:37:21] please say aye.
[2:37:22] Aye, aye.
[2:37:22] That
[2:37:23] s unanimous. We
[2:37:23] re now
[2:37:27] going in closed session.
[2:37:31] And I took my two big. He could
[2:37:33] have been, uh.
[2:37:34] But the meeting I might have.
[2:37:36] Made this.
[2:37:37] We can
[2:37:38] t talk about.
[2:37:50] Um. Oh, and.
[2:37:51] Then I told myself.
[2:37:53] That I probably should walk
[2:38:36] through. Thank you.
[2:39:52] But I.
[2:40:17] The.
[2:41:58] Yeah.
[2:41:58] That. Let
[2:42:15] s try. The.
[2:42:16] Yeah.
[2:42:30] Okay. Okay. So that. Yeah. But
[2:42:32] they they said they were.
[2:42:33] Yeah. I remember those two
[2:42:33] days. I couldn
[2:42:34] t remember.
[2:42:34] What the.
[2:42:38] Other one was. And I was a. But
[2:42:43] I guess. Yeah, yeah I can get
[2:42:46] my emails out. Yeah. Well thank
[2:42:47] you all for all of you on your
[2:42:49] work. I appreciate it. It
[2:42:49] s
[2:42:51] been a long. Yeah, I
[2:42:52] m sure
[2:42:52] they
[2:42:54] re not all easy. Thank you.
[2:47:46] Exactly. Bye. It
[2:47:48] s so cold. Yes.
[2:47:55] I wish I knew somewhere welcome.
[2:48:01] Is there a motion to end the. I
[2:48:01] moved.
[2:48:04] So moved.
[2:48:06] By Hall. Second by. Yeah. All
[2:48:07] in favor of any closed session,
[2:48:09] please say aye. Aye aye. Motion
[2:48:12] to adjourn. Motion by Mayor Pro
[2:48:13] Tem, seconded by.
[2:48:14] Several.
[2:48:16] Thank you. Going all those in
[2:48:17] favor of the motion to adjourn?
[2:48:19] Say aye. Aye, aye. We
[2:48:19] re
[2:48:30] adjourned.
[2:48:39] Let me ask you a the motion.