okay.
>> okay.
Got it.
Okay.
All set then.
Good evening, ladies and
gentlemen, and welcome to the
city of winter spring city
commission budget workshop of
monday, JULY 14th, 2025.
>> and kristen, would you call
the roll, please?
Mayor kevin mccann present
deputy mayor kate resnick.
Commissioner paul diaz
commissioner victoria bruce
present commissioner sarah
baker present commissioner mark
caruso here city manager kevin
sweeney present city attorney
anthony and gargi speer.
>> if we could stand for a
moment of silence to be
followed by the pledge
, I
believe that the united states
of america is my nation and I
do with all liberty and justice
for all.
>> all right.
I assume there are no agenda
changes on this one topic for
the workshop.
And so then it was a compliment
to MR. Sweet.
Thank you for a well done well
written, well explained.
It was actually a little
different layout from past
years.
I appreciate your input.
Maybe holly, thanks for making
it very clear.
And although it's I'm not an
accountant it's it was it makes
sense and thanks for the layout
and the detailed explanation.
>> and with that, let's just
read I'll turn it over to you.
thank you, MR. Mayor.
Commissioners, members of the
public, thank you for your
diligent work and engagement
during this budget process.
At this stage I've had the
opportunity myself as well as
the directors to meet with the
mayor and all of the
commissioners.
The briefing prior to the
budget workshop and where
things stand.
I do have a brief slide show
overview which is a high level
overview of what we're looking
at for some revenue assumptions
and expenditures breakdown for
the f y 26 budget.
In addition, the directors are
with us this evening that chief
track as well as clete sonya
and brian dunning in to speak a
little bit more and add some of
their budget drivers and
impacts for the f y 26 and kind
of long term on the general
fund side, the police budget
being the largest budget and
then the utilities being
another major component.
We'll wrap up with brian if we
could just kind of go through
after I complete my
presentation, I'll ask them to
give an overview of their
budget request for f y 26 and
then we can turn it back to
you, MR. Mayor and the
commission.
I'm happy to go into any
questions that you MAY have in
further detail.
But that being said, we'll get
started with the presentation.
>> patricia
, thank you.
>> so each of you should have a
copy of this again, much of
this is just broken down into a
little bit easier to follow
overview from the extensive
budget book that everybody
received as required under the
charter JULY 1st of this year
was distributed.
You folks had an opportunity to
digest it as well as the public
as posted on the city website
and through our one on one
discussions.
And here we are today the first
stage or phase, if you will, of
the budget process.
This budget as we talk about
through will be some
opportunities for some
reiterations in particular a
couple of areas within the
capital that will have a couple
of opportunities to make that
before final adoption.
>> we're hoping to have some
finalized numbers on a couple
of things.
First off, I'd like to thank
all of the directors for their
vigorous efforts this fiscal
year.
>> it's set out obviously as
the new city manager, a couple
of new directors, department
heads were able to take a fresh
view of where the budget
drivers were really go through
the budget as a whole on a line
by line zero based and really,
you know, the message to go
back in and really look and
make sure that we're getting
the most efficiency out of the
budget and the numbers that
they're putting forward.
We've had a number of internal
meetings reiterations where
things have been changed,
amended, come back and
reconsidered.
So I want to thank all of the
directors because this really
is a team effort.
They've spent a lot of
countless hours and time to get
us to here, a lot of
preparation.
I specifically want to call out
the budget team in addition to
myself led by holly queen, our
finance director as well as
michelle rozanski, our budget
manager.
And I was the benefits
administrator as well as brian
dunnigan, our director of
administrative services and
operations really led the the
true budget team too without
their support we wouldn't be
here today and getting this
budget completed.
So we'll dive right in.
The f y 26 budget, as I said,
was developed through a
rigorous, responsible process
that ensures financial
stability and reflects
community priorities.
>> no proposed increase in the
city's operating millage rate
remaining at 2.6 to mils.
That's a a big achievement,
something I'm proud of.
I know it's something that the
team is proud of.
This was not easy to get to.
You'll see that there's a
number coming in right?
Start with the f y 26 budget
couple of big increases and
we're talking about fixed costs
that we don't have much
discretion on and we'll talk
about some of those things.
Well as related to insurance
and a couple of other drivers
and really looking at what do
we have some ability, the
discretion to be able to go.
You'll notice when we get into
the operating budgets within
within the general fund,
there's really was a hard look
at those expenses and line by
line item and there's not a
single increase in those
operating expenses within
within those budget.
So I don't want to undermine
the difficulty of getting us to
a place where we're able to
recommend keeping the millage
rate where it's at as as we all
know the you know, expense
issues are far exceeding
revenue that's not unique to
the city.
We went to springs and being
able to keep pace with that is
has been a continuous and
difficult task.
But we were able to and proud
to be able to do that for the f
y 26 budget and and present
this before you today through
that with that in in respect to
that the we you know we feel
that the city remains committed
to delivering high quality
services and we feel that we
can do that given the budget
that's presented before you.
There's no I'd say there's no
growth or wish list items in
this budget.
This budget is is really a
budget that is real essential
that we feel will provide and
maintain and deliver the
services that our residents
expect.
But there's no other kind of
growth in long term vision
beyond that and some of that
will take place as we look at
future conversations around
strategic plans and direction
that the commission is looking
to set in making some of those
decisions.
You'll see it when we go
through through the different
budget.
You know, there's no there's no
projects that are unnecessary
sorry projects that are in the
budget and I say unnecessary in
the sense of our level service
in maintaining services and
some of that has been put on
hold as we really as a as a
group and identify particularly
the commission's direction as
we look at kind of our
strategic and master plan
moving forward.
The overall budget revenues are
based upon an operating millage
as I said, an assumption of a
2.62 mils total revenues in
transfers are projected to
increase by 25.8%, including
appropriations from a fund
balance.
A total increase of 13.9% is
projected.
The timing of the opera
project's solid waste rate
increases tlb the increase
enterprise srf state revolving
fund loan proceeds of 5.4
million as well as increase in
water, sewer and stormwater
rates is what's driving some of
that increase that big
increase, particularly the big
increase in the enterprise
revenue.
>> and that's where that's one
of the call those out
specifically as it MAY look
like there's some substantial
particularly as it relates to
the water and sewer utility as
we look at, you know, where
where is that projection coming
from or.
Burstein the realize some of
the rate changes in that
revenue being realized but a
big portion of that is that
enterprise $5.4 million design
loan that is made up and
incorporated into that revenue.
So on the expenditure side, as
we progress with addressing our
wastewater reclamation facility
infrastructure, it's just shows
I'm sorry, do I have that's not
as you know there goes organic
organization wide sources of
funds.
This really just shows a
breakdown by percentage of
where where that revenue is
coming from.
Charges for service at 31.9%,
appropriation from funds, 18.9%
ad valorem tax at 12.5%.
Inter-government
inter-government transfers in
from the state 10.8%.
Other taxes at 7.3%.
Some loan proceeds at 6.8%
franchise other revenue sources
smaller buckets total maybe
4.4%.
Franchise fees 3.4% into fund
transfers in 2.6% and licenses
and permits 1.3.
So you know, a couple of it's
big reliance on ad valorem as
well as some of the the state
revenue shares that we get that
make that up total proposed
budget at 79.87 million across
all funds this represents a
12.8% increase in expenditures
and a 13.9% increase in the
total budget over the f y 25
budget enterprise fund.
That's again a significant
growth up 53.3% in revenue and
then was we going to the
expenditures you'll see the
31.6% expenditures again
primarily due to the utility
and infrastructure capital
projects.
>> the property tax revenue is
projected to increase by
538,889, which accounts for a
6% with a 5.9% and 6.6% with
5.9% rollback less than our f y
25 that we're able to work
with.
So you can imagine, you know,
the difficulty when you have
limited revenue increases and
just over half $1 million and
realize the revenue when it
comes to ad valorem increase
can be a challenge with dealing
with the other other increase
in costs that we have as a
community
overall budget
expenditure.
>> I mentioned again behind the
slide here represented there
with the inclusion of the
appropriations, the fund
balance, the total increase of
13.9%.
>> this is the organization
organization wide application
of funds and the percentage of
the total where that's going
again capital outlay.
This budget as you'll see,
reflects a significant amount
of investment into our capital
and infrastructure personnel at
24.7%, services at 12.2% repair
and maintenance rtm 9.1
utilities making up 7.5 or 7
half percent.
Other five and a half debt
service at 4.7 into fund
transfers out 2.6% and an
appropriation to the fund a
1.1.
So it just gives you an idea I
can see that paragraph where
the big portion of where the
application of these funds, the
orange there with that capital
outlay at 32.5% personnel
related expenses about make up
about 60.7% of the general fund
budget as we get you can see is
another highlight of
expenditure highlights which
includes 8% health insurance
premium increase again like to
you know really just shows the
vigilance and effort that was
made.
There's no new positions that
have been added within this fy
26 budget.
We've relooked at in some of
the efforts and communication
that I've made in the last
couple of months with
streamlining and realigning job
duties, particularly at the
director level with the
consolidation of the director
of public works into a combined
public works and utilities
department under the leadership
of clete.
I'm looking at bringing that
and repositioning that position
as a assistant director and
some reallocation of additional
shifts of responsibility is as
it relates to that so that we
can ensure that the duties
themselves are realigned and
we're getting achieving the
most out of the staffing model
that we have.
I think this is a pretty good
slide breakdown that shows what
that looks like.
As you can see there, the
employees per 1000 residents
and where that stands pretty
flat line reduction of one fte
overall from 2425 and where we
stand in fy 26.
>> so this is we're running
lean.
I've said that many times.
If you look at comparable
cities throughout the state and
where we stand, our resident
and our our infrastructure in
demand, we're definitely run a
lean tight ship and we're
fortunate that we have the
employees and staff that we
have to be able to accomplish
that.
But many folks are wearing
multiple hats that you don't
see in a lot of communities and
you know, we're doing the best
with with what we have and I
think we're doing a great job
at that.
Expenditure highlights each
director, as I said at the
beginning, was tasked with
finding even small ways to
reduce their operating
expenditures such as moving
appropriate expenditures to
other more restrictive funding
sources that were captured
within their budget and looking
at other funding allocation
that should be more streamlined
as it relates to some capital
areas and taking those out of
the actual budget themselves
and addressing those as as
capital expenditures.
We'll talk a little bit more on
capital.
You can see there the again, I
mentioned this earlier in the
presentation.
You know, I'm proud of what
we've been able to build here
and really shows that we have
made a real strong concerted
effort.
You can see information
services in general government
on their on the operating
budgets from 25 over to the f y
26 and that change at-1.8% on
the community development side
-9% parks and recreation down
2.6%.
Police 5.2%.
Finance just under one half 4%.
Public works-15 and the
executive office minus six.
>> so overall 4.7% reduction in
our operating expenses for the
f y 26, which again a lot of
effort really analyzed and
going through every line item
zero base and really reviewing
the budget expenditures and
making sure that there's no you
know, no no funding in it.
There or questionable or
anything like that.
I mean it's really there's
budget is giving us really what
we need to survive and just
just wanted to stress that but
that's probably rare that you
would see any community that's
presenting operating expenses
for every one of those
functions at a reduction.
>> and again, that was a lot of
effort to get us here.
We'll talk about when the chief
gets into his presentation of
the police.
You know, police salaries and a
couple of those as I said,
discretion area expenses
increases health insurance and
a number of those other areas
where we don't have a whole lot
of discretion to be able to
adjust to be able to find that
in other areas as has been a
difficult task.
General fund breakdown by
percentage of the percentage of
utilization from ad valorem
being the largest there at
37.4% utility tax 15.4%
intergovernmental 10.6% are
some franchise fees we have
coming in 10.2% communication
service tax at 6.2%, revenue
sharing at 6% and
appropriations from funds of
5.1 and interphone transfers
and at 3.1 makes up to 100% of
the source on the general fund
.
As you can see, the big
reliance is on our our tax
base, on our local tax, on the
ad valorem tax, making up the
bulk of that 37%.
>> and another way of looking
at 25 versus 26 on the
application from a revenue side
of the house and from the
source as well as the
application of how that money
is being expended.
Personnel as I said earlier,
driving not unique to
governmental budgeting in any
way.
Typically I've seen, you know,
communities, municipalities
generally around anywhere from
60 to 75% on average I'd say
probably 70, 72% is personnel
and staff when it comes to the
overall budget as a whole.
Other operating at 9.2% repair
and maintenance are around that
6.5% capital outlay makes up 4%
and this is in the general
government general fund side
I'm sorry supplies 3.5%.
Utilities 3.7% fuel 1.1% and
then grants and aids just 0.3
just under half percent gives
the 26.6 million on the general
fund side.
>> general fund fiscal policy
test.
>> each year the general fund
is tested to determine if the
fund complies with the three
internal fiscal policies or
guidelines as follows one that
it's sufficient recurring
revenue exists to pay for all
recurring costs.
That's avoiding the use of
nonrecurring revenues and fund
balances to fund recurring
costs.
Those are usually utilized for
savings, if you will, as well
as one time capital
expenditures and are recurrent
recurring costs in any fiscal
year that's sufficient
recurring non recurring revenue
available to fund non-recurring
costs and that the 25% fund
balance policy is being
maintained a fund balance equal
to or exceeding 25% of
personnel and operating costs
of which we are more than
doing.
>> you'll see within your
budget for page 31 which lays
out where that stands and what
I would refer to as the
discretionary fund balance and
having just under 2 million, I
think that that alone
illustrates the financial
health of our community.
It's a it illustrates that it's
where a community that is run
fiscally, responsibly and not
not in a position of a crisis
by any means or anything like
that.
And you know, that's
illustrated within the
responsible fund balance
following strictly through
these policies.
And in fact that 25% I think is
actually technically required
of 20% or three months of
operating 90 days, if you will
.
And we're certainly meeting
above that requirement as well
as having some discretionary in
there and that that comes after
this f y 26 budget of what
we're remaining with after
after those fund balances are
covered within this budget.
So fiscally responsible and
healthy at this stage before we
turn it over to the chief, just
a couple of other things.
The fund balance outlook, I
said that is projected to
decrease by 1.35 million due to
those non-recurring capital
enterprise fund equity is
expected to decline due to the
major utility investments of
which we've been planning for
and have had much discussion
regarding and other decrease in
fund balances.
Primarily as I said, due to the
one time capital investments
that's planned for use of
reserves for long term
infrastructure improvements and
remain in compliance with our
reserve policy.
>> so all all positive and good
things it's a matter of if I
could I'd like to ask the three
directors to present their f y
26 request and drivers and I
think it's a good opportunity.
I don't think in the most
recent we've you know in prior
done too much in this I really
wanted to focus on those three.
The police department is the
largest general fund budget and
then as I said with the
utilities and public works is a
big conversation.
Brian is the director of
administrative services and
operations, has information
services which includes human
resources.
I.T risk management as well as
our parks and recreation
oversight as well as our our
tree landscaping our functions
as well.
So chief turned over to you if
you want to present yourself
thank you.
>> thank you MR..
I appreciate that.
Well good afternoon honorable
mayor, commissioners, staff and
members of the public.
Thank you for the opportunity
to present proposed fiscal year
2026 police department budget.
I'm proud to represent our
department's dedicated men and
women who work daily to keep
our communities safe.
>> our fiscal year 26 budget
supports a focused strategy
built around four priorities.
Those priorities are
maintaining an adequate level
of public safety services
recruiting and retaining
qualified officers, investing
in modern equipment and
technology and improving
overall efficiency and fiscal
accountability.
Before we get into that though,
I'd like to outline where we
have been and where we are now.
>> agencies throughout central
florida have faced an
unprecedented staffing
challenges.
>> the recruitment pipelines
are shrinking and competition
for certified officers is
increasing.
All agencies are fighting for
the same top candidates.
As you all are aware, in late
2024 we increased our starting
salary adjusted employee
compression and offered
educational incentives.
This was necessary as we face
an unrest that in 30% vacancy
rate and the police department
officers were leaving for
neighboring jurisdictions just
for a few thousand dollars more
in salary and a benefit package
that exceeded ours.
I'm glad to report that today
we see a vacancy of only about
5% and hopefully by the end of
this week we could close out to
0% with some offer letters
within central florida
departments have raised
starting salaries to the 60 to
$68,000 range.
Many of those offering
unimaginable sign on bonuses.
Some of these bonuses range
from 5000 to 30,000 just to get
hired.
On top of those incentives are
for education night shift
differential and even
relocation pay.
Unfortunately, the only thing
that this does is incentivizes
qualified officers to leave an
agency for financial gain.
Regretfully, we have seen this
affect our agency as well.
>> the passion for law
enforcement has changed over
the years.
One could argue a reason or
just simply watch the news over
the last ten years.
Finding officers who want to
make a career is becoming
harder and harder.
Staying competitive has focused
us to think outside the box.
The proposed budget includes
funding that will maintain our
competitiveness while
continuing to provide the
services that are expected from
our community.
>> as residents sees increases
in our day to day cost, we
experience those same
significant cost increases
across our critical equipment
lines and operating expenses.
For instance, body armor that
was purchased in 2020 cost
$1,158.
Today that armor costs $1,997,
which is a 72% increase in
2020.
uniforms to outfit a new higher
cost $335.
That same uniform now cost
$570.
That's a 70% increase.
And something as simple as copy
paper $43 a box is now $66.
That's a 53% increase in a
simple office supply.
I say this because we all feel
the same pressures as everyone
in our community.
>> intelligence led policing
has become the wave of the
future and has proven to be a
game changer in combating and
solving crimes.
Likewise, technology based
equipment, patrol vehicles and
safety gear have risen
significantly.
Despite these increases, we
have worked diligently to find
efficiencies to provide you
with a decrease in our
operating budget while still
maintaining service levels.
For the fiscal year 26 budget,
the operating costs for the
police department have been
reduced by a little over 5%
last year.
We're pleased to see the
effects of our policing
initiatives and their impact on
our crime rates.
Crime has dropped overall by
15% from the previous year and
additionally we saw a 9%
reduction in violent crimes all
while operating at critical
staffing levels.
Nevertheless, this success
comes with a downside.
For years we've been forced to
do more with less.
This approach takes a toll on
the workforce and the staffing
numbers have proved this.
We operate with the lowest
officer programs per resident
rate in seminole county and I'm
pleased to say now we see
staffing numbers shift in our
favor.
I will always strive to provide
the best policing within this
community.
As a resident myself, I
invested in seeing the success
of this agency and the city
data shows clearly that the
properly staffing equipped
departments lead to tangible,
measurable, measurable
improvements in public safety.
These impact the quality of
life and harmony of our
community.
This is what makes winter
springs such an attractive
place to live.
The police department's budget
is responsible and forward
thinking.
It balances rising cost with
efficiency.
It strengthens officer
recruitment and retention.
And most importantly, it
sustains our goal of providing
top notch service while
reducing the fare and presence
of crime.
>> the total proposed f y 26
budget reflects a 4.3% increase
over 25.
This includes payroll and
benefits, operating expenses
and capital improvements.
As mentioned, we reduced our
operating costs by scrutinizing
every line item conducting
internal checks and balances,
negotiating contracts and using
grant funds to the best of our
abilities.
This budget is operationally
sound to complete our mission
but lacks any more flexibility
.
Key budget areas that were
discussed earlier our personnel
benefits which is $8.7 million
operating costs $1.6 million
and capital expenses of
$640,000.
The total police department
budget of $10.9 million.
>> every dollar in this
proposal is aligned with
maintaining services the same
community policing standards
that we've worked hard over the
last several decades to build
trust.
Transparency and partnerships
with our residents, business
partners and faith based
community leaders.
As your police chief, I'm
committed to leading this
agency with honesty, integrity
and transparency in every
decision we make from how we
spend taxpayer dollars to how
we serve our residents.
We will reflect on our core
values excellence, integrity,
innovation and respect.
I will fight for our officers
for their safety, for their
well-being and the respect that
they've earned.
>> but I also hold us to the
highest standards because
that's what the public
deserves.
We are building a department
that just doesn't respond to
crime but also helps prevent it
.
A department that earns trust
not just compliance and a
department that serves as a
cornerstone of what makes one
springs safe, desirable,
complete and free from
tomorrow's fears.
With that, I respectfully
request your support adopting
the fiscal year 26 proposed
police department's budgets and
I welcome any questions?
>> you want to just roll
through and then we'll come
back for questions.
Okay.
Who's next to
me?
>> good afternoon,
commissioners.
It was good getting an
opportunity to meet each one of
you individually over the last
week or so.
And and been able to put a fine
point on what we're trying to
accomplish within the public
works and utilities department.
I will tell you that in all my
years of experience I've worked
on everything from special
district government to
municipalities and counties.
I think winter springs is one
of the most efficient and
dedicated group of individuals
working within the city that
creates opportunities to save
money while providing
exceptional service.
The only limitation is is their
ability to do so with
additional funding which we're
asking for you to provide
today.
Although it is a tight lean
budget, it does meet all of our
operational requirements for
the forecasted fiscal year.
As I mentioned, we did spend a
lot of time developing this
budget.
I picked staff springs a lot
not only because of my newness
here to the community but also
a desire, strong desire and
philosophy.
I have to make sure that we're
not spending any more than we
need to to provide the best
service delivery possible.
With that, the budget overall
for public works and utilities
is very lean and efficient.
So let me just go over a few
top level items.
The more important items the
budget is pretty thick.
It takes up a significant
portion of the budget book
because we're dealing with
multiple funds and different
expenditure accounts.
For starters, I'm going to go
over overall staffing changes
with the elimination is as city
manager sweetman charged with
the elimination of the public
works director overseeing the
duties of public works and
utilities.
And as part of that, in order
to be more efficient, the city
manager and I had developed a
job description for an
assistant director of public
works and utilities.
That position will take on full
responsibility for the
stormwater management program
plus play a key role as the
capital improvement program
manager overall capital
projects with the exception of
the wastewater recycling
facilities, I will still
oversee that directly to make
sure we're moving forward.
>> we've also added another
position for fiscal year 26.
It's an environmental
compliance officer.
We would be looking at that
position as an associate
engineering position.
Somebody that's right around
the city to be newly pd
individual but they would have
oversight and responsibility
ownership if you will, over all
of our regulatory requirements
whether it be water, sewer,
reclaim water stormwater and
paving.
There'll be a point of contact
with key representatives within
all of the regulatory agencies
such as F.D.A., f d p st johns
river and others.
They'll be maintaining those
relationships currently we have
consultants provided or
providing augmented staffing
services.
We fully expect those services
to be eliminated and this
individual come in and take
over those responsibilities and
I would might add that would be
full time.
Currently our consultants can
only to the best of their
ability provide kind of a part
time overview, if you will, on
specific things that come out.
>> we are also reorganizing the
utilities division department
into a to create a new division
for substation maintenance and
operation.
We're going to create a lift
station maintenance operation
division that will be staffed
by dedicated employees that
will be responsible for the 57
live stations that we currently
have in operation throughout
the city.
Our current contractor, our own
contractor veolia provides of
services as part of their
contract and they will be of
course falling off in SEPTEMBER
30th with our new contractor
owner and contractor would add
in current coming on OCTOBER
1st.
That new contract will not
include live station management
services that will be brought
in-house with our staff.
So we've recreated that
division utilizing existing
staff from two of our utility
crews to create a new division.
Plus hiring an individual to be
able to oversee the management
of those individuals.
I would note that woodard in
current contract is actively
being developed.
We're taking a lot of time.
We want to make sure we get all
the I's dotted and t's crossed
on that scope of services.
Our current agreement with
veolia is woefully inadequate.
It is very ambiguous in some
detail in what it what our
expectations should be and what
they should be moving forward.
So we're taking a lot of time
and effort with staff as well
as our consultants at carollo
to develop a very tight
completed to date.
>> we fully anticipate being
able to provide at the end of
SEPTEMBER a stormwater master
plan draft and we'll be
providing to you a workshop at
that time to go over that.
We'll also be introducing what
some anticipated rates will be
that you can expect to see
depending on your adoption of
that plan at a at the first
meeting in OCTOBER.
The rate study will be
presented to reflect whatever
the improvement recommendations
and the operational
requirements of those are.
During the storm water
infrastructure program
presentation at the workshop at
the end of SEPTEMBER 1st part
of OCTOBER.
so since that final
infrastructure needs assessment
will not be until late this
fiscal year.
Staff will be working with the
city manager and the finance
director to present a budget
amendment reflecting the
infrastructure and operational
costs in line with the adopted
rates sometime mid fiscal year.
We really want to have a handle
on that until we actually
understand what the rates will
produce, what you decide you
wish to see in terms of level
of service for the next five,
ten, 15 years in terms of the
stormwater program.
But we'll be able to staff that
appropriately provided the
necessary equipment and it will
be in line with whatever rate
revenues that we receive within
that storm water utility.
So somewhere around the first
the end of the first quarter,
second quarter of next fiscal
year probably be seeing a
budget amendment to that that
is not included in the current
budget is my point.
Utilities department.
The operations budget is in
line with current expenditure
needs associated with many
years of deferred maintenance
infrastructure maintenance that
was not accounted for until we
had our recent rate study
approved.
I believe that was in 2023.
We are in the second of a five
year rate study will be doing a
rate review or refresh if you
will, presenting the results of
that study with our consultants
at tell us sometime in
SEPTEMBER to give you an idea
of how well we're meeting
expenditures and and revenues,
it's looking fairly good from
what I've seen so far.
And I'll leave it at that.
And then of course, on the 18th
of last month you were you
received our utilities
infrastructure program update
in which we presented to you
our plan five years, the ip
program that included all
water, sewer and reclaimed
water excluding the costs
associated with the two
wastewater treatment plants.
This is strictly cip projects
that are needed outside of the
fence, if you will, of those
two wastewater treatment plants
.
What we presented to you was a
five year study or a five year
plan based on current revenue
sources and needs and our
ability to be able to fund that
within current revenue
limitations.
What we didn't know at that
time is that we received a
legislative grant earmark, if
you will, from the state for
three different projects.
We're in the process of
adjusting that cerp to reflect
maybe a.
Well, not maybe, but it will in
it will accelerate those three
projects, those being the
aerators on the water treatment
plants.
Three the michael blake
reclaimed water main project
and also a smaller bowel
project on the line.
Potable water main in the city
.
>> so as I mentioned within the
budget book the c I p is not
changed that much since that
workshop.
just as an overview, there's
approximately 31 projects that
we have identified between
water wastewater and reclaimed
water totaling around $34
million in today's dollars.
Over the next five years we
anticipate 11 of those
projects, possibly more with
this new infusion of
legislative funding for fiscal
year 26 totaling about $9.7
million for next fiscal year.
Separately, the east and west
water reclamation facilities,
wastewater reclamation
facilities for fiscal year 26
is budgeted at $25 million.
That includes a $20 million
loan from us sorry up.
A lot of unknowns out there
right now, but we want to be
ready in anticipation of that
going forward.
>> that concludes really
everything I have on the
current fiscal year 26.
But I do have some anticipated
future look ahead.
So I'd like to share with you
I'm currently gathering propose
a proposal for a 5 to 10 year
payment management plan.
It's a data driven plan that
will be assessing all of the
payment conditions throughout
the city.
We'll be able to present that
to you in the coming months.
It will show our very fact
based data driven assessment of
all the conditions of our
streets.
It'll be based on payment
management philosophy which
sometimes can sound
counterintuitive.
I don't want to get into the
weeds on that right now, but it
will address all of our roads
over the next five, ten, 15
years and beyond on a cyclic
pattern.
And as long as funding is
provided, so long as we're able
to keep it going, I highly
recommend that whatever
transportation funds that we
get, we invest heavily into our
pavement.
I think overall our pavement
condition is fairly good
compared to other
municipalities and counties
I've worked in.
We will also have a sidewalk
maintenance plan that will look
at projected costs over time
and we'll also defined areas of
need addressing all ada
requirements at all crosswalks
and we'll fold that into the
as well.
And then of course we're also
working on a five year
equipment replacement plan that
will cover all police, all of
our heavy equipment on and off
road vehicles and equipment
over the next five years and
beyond so that we can better
plan and budget for those
expenditures as they come up
instead of reacting when things
break and we don't to
anticipate it, we'll have a
good idea of when those things
need that piece, those pieces
of equipment need to be
replaced.
And finally, ultimately long
term in 2027, all of these are
2026, 27 year.
It's my goal to provide the
community and yourselves with a
dashboard, an online dashboard
that's gis based.
It will have a comprehensive
view of all projects going on
in the city.
we can refer members of the
community to go to that if they
want to find out when a certain
roads being paved, where it's
going to be paved, how much it
cost, what utility projects are
going on, etc., etc. That as
you can imagine will be a very
comprehensive task.
It's going to all have to
solicit much help from various
departments, including finance
and operations and being able
to put that together and get it
in a cogent and sensible format
where everybody can easily
understand when they will get
paid, when their water line
might be replaced, when do it
to dissipate being able to
schedule whatever activities
they want to schedule, thus
reducing a lot of costs to our
public information folks or our
customer service folks at the
front desk.
A lot of this information will
be readily available, cutting
down a lot of inquires to the
front desk.
And that concludes my
presentation.
Be happy to answer any specific
questions you have at the end
of this
.
Thank you, kelly.
Good afternoon, mayor.
Deputy mayor.
City commission.
City manager for the record
brian down again director of
administrative services and
operations.
I'd like to provide a high
level budgetary summary of the
following city departments
which include human resources,
risk management, I.T parks and
recreation or beautification as
arbor as well as the city's
three assessment districts.
Overall, the personnel related
expenses for the employees that
are assigned to these divisions
for fy 26 we're proposing a
6.28% decrease for personnel
related expenses for these
employees overall and an
operating decrease for the
divisions that are primarily
funded through ad valorem.
Which would be your H.R.
I.T.
Risk management parks and
recreation and urban
beautification reduction of by
approximately 1.15% and the
capital expenses proposed
decrease by about 79.5% for
those divisions.
Looking at the human resources
division of the city, looking
at turnover trends citywide, we
had a voluntary separation rate
from AUGUST of 2023 to JUNE of
2024 reduction from 23.3% to
13.3%.
So these are employees that are
on their own voluntarily
leaving the city for whatever
reason to go seek employment
elsewhere.
In most cases not including
retirements.
These are so that that metric
does not include employees who
would be planning to retire
from from the city.
We have seen a slight increase
for reporting period from
OCTOBER 1st to current up to
about 17.7%, which is a little
bit higher than we'd like to be
in that 12 to 15% range, which
is generally accepted for
government entities.
However, when you take out the
sworn law enforcement
departures and isolate the rest
of the government, we're at
about 11.6% voluntary
separation.
So this trend reflects some of
the challenges that chief tract
shared in his summary with you
all that we continue to see
increased voluntary
separations, particularly on
the law and law enforcement
side.
The department continues to
support employee wellness,
safety training and employee
recognition programs.
So we have had some measurable
gains specifically in the
outcome of some of these safety
and training programs which
I'll discuss as it pertains to
our workers compensation
experience modification factor.
Imf here in a second.
Looking at risk management, we
have seen an 8.4% increase in
premiums for a general
liability property worker's
comp and auto coverage.
However, we were able to
essentially keep that cost the
same this year because we were
able to more accurately budget
with receiving that number
sooner in advance.
During the budget cycle this
year compared to last year.
But I will say that overall
insurance premiums continue to
be one of the most volatile
costs the city experiences.
We've seen a 130% increase
since f y 15 in those areas
primarily attributed to a
highly litigious environment.
Major hurricanes impacting our
area our region I should say in
2017, 2022 and 2024 as well as
potential future increases
because of statutory salary,
sovereign immunity increases
and caps through legislative
sessions at the state.
One of the areas where we had
some positive gains has been on
our workers compensation
premiums.
We've actually reduced our emf
recently, which is the factor
that's used to determine our
worker's compensation rates
which is going to allow us to
help control if not keep some
of those costs flat,
particularly when it comes to
ensuring our law enforcement
employees which are by far the
highest risk group of employees
that we have to insure for
worker's comp coverage.
>> moving on to information
technology, I.T. In itself, we
did see an increase of about
10% in non personnel related
operating expenses for I.T..
Some of the drivers behind
those increases was a
consolidation of cellular and
data plans for under the it's
budget for general fund
departments where previous
practice was that some of these
departments were budgeting
their cellular and data plans
underneath.
G for example has a computer in
every single car because he's
funded through the general
department and I.T department
as a general fund function.
It makes more sense to
consolidate those dollars under
one budget.
It makes for a lot more
efficiency when it comes to
paying invoices and creating
ppos rather than have to create
purchase orders out of multiple
different departments when
ultimately they're all funded
through the same revenue
source.
The other cost increase driver
is subscription based based I.T
products in softwares.
The days of being able to go
out and outright purchase
software for support tools is
nonexistent.
Almost all of our software
tools are subscription based or
term based that are subject to
increases either annually or at
the end of terms when it comes
to renegotiate or reshot for
products.
We're not able to just go out
and outright buy, purchase and
own software at a fixed cost.
It's not something that's
offered in the I.T.
Market for the tools that we
need.
Additionally we were required
to implement a learning
management software with a
primary focus on cybersecurity
that was mandated through some
recent updates to the florida
state statutes.
So that's another example of a
cost increase that the it
department is required to take
on in order to remain compliant
with statutory demands.
>> the it department continues
to play a strategic role in
multiple multiple citywide
initiatives aimed at
streamlining not only the
processes but increasing the
efficiency at which our
departments deliver services to
our residents.
One of the upcoming focuses
that we're going to be looking
at is the implementation of an
ai tool to be integrated into
the city's website which will
allow residents to find key
information on city projects,
initiatives and general
inquiries.
Additional example of some
functions that I.T department
will continue to support will
be ongoing gis upgrades that
will support citywide
functions.
Capital investments into key
I.T infrastructure replacement
and components that are
paramount to the function of
the organization as well as
ongoing public safety
technology enhancements.
Moving over to the parks and
recreation side.
>> what I consider our daily
operating costs which are going
to be your parks maintenance
senior center recreation
program divisions approximately
a 10% decrease in those
operating costs from fy 25 to
26 total department budget just
over $3 million with
approximately a $421,000 in add
non ad valorem revenue
projection right now which
would primarily be generated
from user fees for charges for
use of services and facilities
.
One of the areas that you
probably noticed a variation in
this year's budget from 25 to
26 is in our special event or
community event division.
Previously previous practice
for some of the smaller
community events we were not
budgeting any of the revenues
or any of the expenses for some
of the smaller events such as
the hometown harvest for
example.
So that meant that once we
collected all of the revenues
and spent that money for the
associated costs with those
events we would have to come
back administratively because
of the way we're structured and
the budget amendment that would
have to be approved by the
commission.
It seemed like that was a
little bit inefficient process
to do that.
So what we did is we began
budgeting for both the revenues
and the expenses on those
events starting in fy 26.
So the methodology is not going
to change if we for that that
event specifically I'll use it
as an example if we bring in
$15,000 in revenue for the
hometown harvest, then we'll
have $15,000 in expenses or
less.
So we're not going to change
the philosophy of how we're
we're managing the funds but
we're just budgeting for both
the revenues and expenses
beginning this year.
So if you see an increase there
as far as major public
enhancements that are in this
budget, we do have funded
through the park impact fees
$100,000 for a lacrosse wall
out at central winds park,
which has been something that
the parks and rec advisory
committee has asked staff to be
looking into for a number of
years.
In addition, we're looking at
about $100,000 in ada
enhancements in the parks to
increase connectivity to some
of the amenities that we're
offering.
Again, those two initiatives
would be funded through park
impact fees.
Future enhancements
particularly at central winds
and other parks should align
ideally with the recently
adopted central winds park
master plan and ideally be
incorporated into the city's
comprehensive plan specifically
the recreation and open space
element to best position the
city to be eligible for funding
in the future.
New initiatives that the parks
and recreation department is
looking at in terms of employee
training is licensing more
employees to be trained and
certified by the state to apply
chemicals, pesticides and
fertilizers in our parks to
broaden our workforce.
Expanding programing offers
offerings on the recreation
side include looking at infant
survival swim programs, stem
programs and exploring new
community events, including a
potential barbecue festival in
the spring of 2026.
Central one's park.
>> moving on to the urban
beautification ann arbor fund,
the operating budget for the
urban beautification division
which again is funded through
the ad valorem dollars saw
about a 12.5% decrease.
A lot of this was attributed to
allocating some of the expenses
with that department to the
arbor fund, which is a
restricted fund that can only
be used for restricted purposes
in the fy 26 budget.
We do have a proposed operating
expense of the arbor fund of
$923,000 that's supported by an
end of year fund balance at the
end of f y 25 for that it's not
at our 930, 2024 of $1.82
million.
Some of the potential upgrades
citywide include landscaping
enhancements on state route 434
collector road median and
traffic calming enhancements on
the west side of the city and
city facility and parkland heat
scaping renovations.
The arbor fund does continue in
this budget to support the
city's annual tree giveaway
program as well as right of way
tree replacement programs.
Moving on to the assessment
districts, as you well know,
the city does have three
special assessment districts.
They are located at the oak
forest water assessment
district.
The task will add lighting and
beautification district in
tuscola three, also known as
the hawks reserve wall
assessment district.
Currently we do have a
consolidated rate study
underway to evaluate the fees
for all three of those special
assessment districts.
It made most sense to have that
study done concurrent with one
another for all three districts
so that we could maximize the
buying power of having a
consultant come in and look at
those rates.
The big increase that you're
going to see in the top
assessment expenses is the
board met back in MAY and we
presented an idea of potential
upgrades to look at
opportunities for enhancements
throughout the community that
are due.
As most of you know, winter
springs boulevard from tuscola
road all the way to 426, we
have center medians throughout
the corridor.
there's 23 separate medians
throughout the corridor.
A lot of those medians have
aged out landscaping material
that that is due to be replaced
in the near future.
So we went to the board, gave
them a a existing inventory of
their medians as well as their
monument feature entrances
which are on some of the
collector roads vista willa
tuscarora some of the entrances
into the community shetland
shetland in how creek drive
gave them an overview of their
existing conditions and then
asked for their input on an
approach to renovate these
these monument features and
medians.
So the input that we received
from their board was they'd
like to see a phased approach
of about 25% replacement per
year for the next four years.
So with that, this budget for
20 does reflect re re re re
landscaping about five of the
medians down winter springs
boulevard and then about two of
the monument features going
into the community at those
specific locations.
In addition to the landscaping
enhancements there are some
additional capital costs that
are going to be due for the
make sure we get this one right
the north fountain that has
some other potential upgrades
that need to happen in order to
preserve the long term
sustainability of that water
feature.
Moving on to oak forest
currently the oak force
assessment district, their
revenues seem to be sufficient
for the operating costs
associated with maintaining the
wall as well as their landscape
features at some of those
entrances.
But we are nevertheless going
to have their fees evaluated
through the rate study that we
have ongoing right now through
mbes.
And then lastly is tuscola
three also known as hawkes
reserve as part of the rate
study which would identify
potential funding needed for
some additional repairs needed
along some portions of the
wall.
And one thing that I think is
important to point out
specifically as it pertains to
hawkes reserve is that they
they do have their ongoing
maintenance fund that their
fees paid for, but they do also
have a outstanding loan that
they're still paying back to
the city's general fund that
was issued upon the creation of
the district I believe it was
in 2015 that they're still
repaying back the balance of
that loan that was issued from
the city's general fund.
So with that, that concludes my
summary and any questions we'll
keep moving on here.
>> that's everybody.
Yes, mayor, that's everybody.
We're happy to entertain any
questions and of a couple of
other just brief updates that I
can provide if the time allows
for our bill and make sure the
commission and of those that
have questions, why not awesome
.
If I can I'll just start with I
presented christian some
documentation.
>> I'd like it for the record.
i think it's something really
important for residents to
understand and I don't know
that even the directors
understand.
>> maybe you do.
I did research the nine I
stopped at nine because I just
was finished and this is really
important for everyone to know.
The nine counties that make up
central florida, there are 95
municipal counties they
represent 5,618,000 people with
a very minor caveat.
>> winters springs has the
lowest military.
>> the only exception is
municipal cities with less than
500 residents.
And they also don't have a
police department.
At one point, lake mary lake
mary actually is the lowest
lake mary when you tie in their
fire fees, they park fees and
their millage rate.
They are the lowest in nine
counties.
Folks, I like to say thank you
and congratulations for the
work that you've done.
I think that this commission
for a long time has done a
phenomenal job of doing
incredible work with little
work with little money and
effectively we're doing the
right thing by our residents
that we're doing this while
moving forward massive
infrastructure issues,
improving our drinking water,
stormwater issues, wastewater.
We're supporting our police
department and staff, giving
them much deserved raises.
I'm with the new addition of
new directors, the new people
that have come on and those
that are veterans.
Brian and chief specifically
and I'll let you kind of come
back around but you're in a new
role, a new city manager.
This city is no longer in a
reactionary mode.
I believe that we are starting
to move forward with plans like
we were talking about in the
replacement of police cars and
this systematic way instead of
letting 15 cars get to be ten
years old and we're starting to
react setting we're setting
ourselves up to do things
moving forward that are
systematic, well-thought out
and they're going to keep us at
the point that the spear point
at doing a lot in a fiscally
responsible way.
>> bottom line for the
residents of winter springs, we
are doing our job.
We are at the tip of the spear.
Any nonsense about us
overspending or not doing the
right thing financially to our
residents, we should be the
example for the state.
>> I'd be real curious with
time I went through nine
counties, the 95 municipalities
going through one at a time
populations and police
departments and looking at
their millage rates and they
continue.
We are at the tip of the spear.
We're doing the right thing and
I think we should all be proud
of it.
With that, I'll open the floor
.
>> congratulations.
And who would like to go first
with the commissioners?
And you're looking this way.
I'll go first.
just one question for each
cleat.
You said there was 56 slip
stations.
Is that what you said?
57 was open.
How many of those live stations
are in need of a generator or
do you know off hand or you can
get back to me?
Yeah, I'm just curious to to
know when we can get them at
every live station and what the
budget might be and how long
that might take.
The budget does include the
budget does include a
replacement plan for backup
pumps and generators on all
those live stations.
Grace as starting with the
master course lifts the main
substations were good good that
was my only question for you.
It's over at least the next
five years.
Right?
Okay, great.
Brian, you you mentioned a
lacrosse wall.
>> yes, sir.
What is that?
It's a rebound wall.
So it's it's a stationary wall,
cinder block with a footer
that's a permanent fixture at
the park, potentially where
we'll cross players or soccer
players I suppose could go and
practice throwing and catching
lacrosse.
And you know, it's basically
like a rebound wall.
So I don't know if you
previously remember about ten
years ago at trotwood we had a
outdoor racquetball court that
was behind the tennis courts
that essentially was in failing
condition that basically was
torn down.
And the pam carroll pavilion is
now located its place.
So one of the things some of
the community members mentioned
when that feature was removed
was that some of the cross
players use that as a rebound
wall to go practice lacrosse,
which ultimately does us a
favor if they're going out to
one of the parks and doing that
because that means they're not
throwing it up against the side
of one of our buildings.
>> and how long has that been
in the works?
>> well, MR. Gallo is sitting
in the audience.
I think he's probably been in
my ear for at least 5 to 10
years, but it's been brought up
recently as recently as last
year at the parks and rec
advisory committee.
I only I bring that up because
I'm I was wondering about the
lights for the baseball field
so I know that's a big thing.
Correct?
You know, I didn't know or do
we know if that should take
precedence over a lacrosse wall
or can we get you know, in the
process of both because I know
helping out babe ruth is a big
deal.
Right.
And it means a lot to the
community.
So a little bit of context to
that conversation.
So there's been two different
conversations that pertains to
lights specifically at central
wins.
The first conversation was on a
retrofit led conversion of the
existing infrastructure which
ultimately the commission chose
not to move forward with this
budget year that we're in
currently.
And then shortly after that
that topic there was a group
from within the community that
mentioned the need to add
additional lights on to the
unlit practice fields on the
west side of central one's park
.
What I'd say about both of
those initiatives is two
things.
One.
Parked impact fees definitively
could not find retrofitting
existing lights because you're
it's not an acceptable use of
those funds.
Theoretically parking impact
fees could be used or at least
used in portion to find new
lights to expand the capability
of a recreational facility due
to an increase in growth.
But I would say that both of
those initiatives at least are
significantly more expensive
than the construction of a
crosswalk.
Beyond that, I think what might
be important for the commission
to consider in the future is
obviously the strategic plan
for central winds park was
recently approved I think in
DECEMBER of 24 or our central
winds master plan I'm sorry,
which included a number of of
really fascinating
possibilities for for central
winds.
But beyond that is the
commission probably should
provide some strategic
direction to the city manager
and staff on the implementation
of some of those improvements
as it pertains to what your
priorities are as a commission
and specifically for central
wins as it pertains to either
retrofitting lights, adding new
lights, adding new pavilions,
building new playgrounds,
boardwalks and events center
because without that direction
you know, the staff really
shouldn't be trying to
prioritize which projects you
all want to see done first out
there at central wins and then
what I'd say beyond that is
there's a lot of discussion
about grant funding through
different sources for an app as
a is a is a grant that's passed
through dep florida recreation
development assistant program.
We we could position ourselves
very well to receive those
funds but it is absolutely
paramount that anything that we
apply for through that program
and specifically it has to be
in our comprehensive plan and
the recreation and open space
element specifically because if
it's not, they are going to
probably disqualify you pretty
quickly.
They don't want one off pet
projects flavor of the week
projects entities applying for
grant funding through those
sources whether it be further
out or l w c f which is the
land water conservation fund.
They want to know that it's
part of your adopted
comprehensive plan as a city
and that it's also probably
within a strategic plan that is
a little bit more granular than
just your comp plan if that
makes sense or maybe how it can
get us a sponsor like she was.
>> she did so well with the
pickleball court sponsor.
>> you know, I mean there the
conversation as it pertains in
all seriousness to to potential
private grant funding.
I will tell you there are
conversations that we are
having right now and if it's a
combination of multiple
different funding mechanisms
that MAY be able to fund a
major initiative such as new
lights out at central wins, I
will I will tell you we are
looking at those opportunities
as well, which sometimes come
with frankly a lot less red
tape than we're receiving money
from the state or potentially
looking at multiple sources.
So it's great to hear.
Sure.
Babe ruth will be happy.
All right, chief, save the best
for last.
But you and I are well aware of
retention and my my biggest
thing is keeping our officers.
So what needs do you have as
far as retention is concerned?
You know, bringing new officers
and keeping them here, you
know, trying to really keep
them after training because a
lot of them leave after
training.
We lose money there.
A lot of people don't
understand the areas that we
lose pension, salary, uniforms,
training.
So what do you what do you
think about needs?
>> that's a great question.
Thank you for that.
You know, a lot of the
recruitment and retention goes
back to culture as well.
>> I think if you offer a good
working environment and a
culture that people want to
support, then that helps.
We will always have the people
that will leave for financial
gain when they bring change.
These are offering ten, 15,
$20,000 incentives just to sign
a three year commitment that's
very hard or difficult to
compete with some of the
sheriff's departments around
the state are offering up to a
$70,000 incentive.
That's just unheard of and it's
not something that will be able
to compete with as far as our
salaries go, we're in the right
place.
We made it.
We made a move at the right
time and the all the other
cities have followed now we do
have a little bit of work to
do, I think and I think MR.
Manager will speak to this
maybe tonight with pension
benefits, but we're moving in
the right direction and that
would be the last thing that I
could say that that we need to
do or that I would like to see
happen to help maintain that
recruitment or retention issue
.
But there's some ideas that I
have that you know, but we
could talk about that in the
future as well.
Great.
Who would like to go next one?
I know we all had very thorough
meetings and had a chance to
talk to each independently.
Maybe I could just simply ask
is it just an open question
they're putting I don't want to
put you on the spot.
Is there anyone in their
department that feels that this
project falls short in any
particular way?
is there something that you
really felt was important?
And I know that's loaded and I
apologize I'll go personally.
>> yeah, right.
That you wanted done and yeah
they're trying to get a patrol
boat she want to prove it above
right?
>> yeah yeah she wants a boat.
>> yeah right.
Thanks.
I'll take that as you're happy
with the budget as well and
your department?
Yeah.
Nobody's saying anything.
Thanks, deputy mayor.
>> in between.
Oh, look.
Doing okay?
>> yeah.
I have a question on on several
of them but I'll use park
impact 153 as a example so
sources mean income correct and
applications mean expenses.
Correct.
So sources we have 20,000 for
park impacts and applications.
We have 200,000.
So that's a difference of
180,000 that will pull from the
general fund and I don't know
please clarify them.
>> that's going to be coming
from the fund balance of that
fund and that's how it is for
all these others as well.
Correct.
>> thank you for that
clarification.
Now why is only 20,000 dollars
anticipated as as income as
sources for 2026 and so so for
impact fees we only we do not
budget those in advance until
we receive them.
So the $20,000 is from the
investments that we expect to
receive return on the amount
that's essentially in our
savings account at the moment.
>> wonderful.
Thank you.
That's clarification.
>> and in addition, can you
confirm other government funds?
>> what exactly that means is
that debt service and
government sharing programs
kind of thing.
>> so it's basically all of the
other governmental funds
outside of general fund.
So general fund is where your
ad valorem lives other
governmental funds would be a
combination of your impact fee
funds those such as arpa where
we have a special kind of one
time revenue source.
The debt service funds capital
projects funds anything outside
of enterprise funds that make
up general government services
.
Thank you.
I'm good and honor deputy.
All right.
One thing to you, mayor.
You were mentioning every city
but lake mary like mary to me
is very unique.
Even altamont somewhat unique.
But there is a 6535 commercial
versus residential and they've
got significant commercial so
they get away with something we
don't and 4,040% of the
population that we have yeah
yeah yeah.
So you know there's that piece
there.
All right.
Budget stuff right I think you
answer my one conversation
piece with central was master
plan.
I know we had the conversation
here but we really didn't do
anything with it.
Right?
We just had the conversation
correct.
>> so if I recall there was a
presentation made by the
consultant as the master plan
process was winding down
looking for some input from the
commission.
I don't think that there was
any direct input at the
meeting.
Not to say that some of you
maybe didn't interact with the
consultant at some of the
public engagement forums that
they had.
>> and then the second piece
that I remember was the
commission adopting the the
master plan formally and voting
to accept accept it.
But that's kind of only the
first start, right?
That's that's the cornerstone
on it's the building block but
from there there really needs
to be more of a robust in-depth
conversation about what your
priorities are as a commission
.
Where where do you see the
first opportunities for some of
those enhancements to take
place now from a construct
ability standpoint, some of the
enhancements obviously if
you're talking about like like
a really big bite of the pie
and this is I'm not telling you
this would be the first white
building event center with a
really big parking lot your
stormwater element of that plan
would have to come first
because there's going to be a I
a substantial impact on the
stormwater criteria for the
park.
If that were to be your first
priority was to build the event
center.
Let's just say for sake of
discussion.
So beyond that I don't think
commissioner, to your point
there's really been any more
in-depth conversation and I
think it might be appropriate
and I would defer to the city
manager.
Obviously once you all get
through some of the more
critical conversations as it
pertains to stormwater
wastewater and utility
infrastructure with some of the
workshops you've been doing, it
might be appropriate to do it
on a workshop specifically for
some of the public facilities
with a focus on parks so that
we can get some ideas from the
commission of where your
priorities at.
And as a staff we can kind of
share with you our perspective
on some of the existing
conditions of some of the
amenities at your public
facilities.
>> so with that, I appreciate
you jumping right into that
piece so to everybody up here
but also to you down there and
you city manager, that was one
of those pieces and I've been
here long enough.
We sort of had that
conversation in 2012 to build a
maintenance plan.
We kind of fell away with that.
I think you and chris caldwell
were part of building something
,but I don't think we ever did
anything with that so far as
did you say a maintenance plan
with all of the equipment that
we have so that way that
doesn't just get to what you
just said there, come back and
check on.
>> I'd have to go back and look
at some of the details of that
conversation.
Commissioner, I would say
overall, just generally
speaking, looking at the
conditions of some of your
primarily public facilities,
playgrounds in particular,
we've done a tremendous amount
of replacement in the last 3 to
4 years of playgrounds
throughout the city, the ones
that are still remaining there
are in good shape, but there
does need to be a conversation
about replacement, particularly
of the large playground at the
back of central wins.
I'd say that that conversation
is probably tangible in the
next 2 to 3 years given the age
of that that playground
specifically.
But overall the other amenities
in the parks, they have been
maintained very well.
Some of them are newer.
Obviously we started out sam
smith and I think morse park
back in 2017 2018 with the
replacement moved on to
trotwood central wins for the
sports playground.
So but overall those those
amenities are holding up well.
They are being maintained.
But you know obviously that
conversation needs to be an
ongoing interactive dialog so
that we don't get ourselves
into the position.
We found ourselves back in 2015
2016 where we have numerous
playgrounds at city parks that
all need to be replaced at the
same time, right?
So with that logic in mind,
what I'm looking at here and
this is due to the manager this
is what I would consider an
infrastructure budget to my
$0.02 because everything from
cleat you were sharing looks to
me as we're breaking down all
the infrastructure that needs
to be replaced, which if we go
with the model of the parks,
it's going to be replaced now
maintained in the future.
So that's what this looks like.
So that's why it's such a
significant dollar cost.
It's because we're looking at
an infrastructure project
budget that personally is yes,
okay.
So we are looking at this kind
of a budget.
I'm looking at you here for the
next five years or so because
of those five years worth of
projects or is that this for
the next five years plus five
years because really continue
the maintenance of it is the
maintenance that much cheaper
more significantly cheaper or
is this kind of cost as we move
down much of the infrastructure
plan on the on the utility side
will incorporate an element of
operation and maintenance.
But typically we're pretty much
landlocked.
You don't really need to
consider that unless you're
expanding your your developable
area.
>> okay.
Thank you.
My other comment to everybody
up here, this started with the
chief actually and finance
director at the time is
personnel retirement and
pension.
My conversation started when
the legislature met chief
correct me if I was 24 was the
24 year or 23 year I think 23
when they met and change the
laws again.
So I've asked for at least
going on now to full budgets
for us to assess and make sure
that our retirement plan or
pension plan is in line with
others so that we're
competitive.
One thing missing from this
budget city manager is that
that is still not complete
right?
What for the fairness of our
staff and maintaining our staff
as they look around other
communities?
Is that something on the table
for the next budget?
And I know we're working on
this one but that's a
significant piece for me.
I can speak to that chief and
you can add in your input.
So coming in when I first came
in, obviously I know those
discussions had been happening.
Looking at it from my
perspective coming on the tail
end of salary adjustments,
looking at a really a doomsday
scenario down 17 officers and
the risk of public safety for
our community and really trying
to look at talking with our
H.R.
Manager our leadership team
through exit interviews and
conversations is what's driving
a lot of this and certainly
salary is one component of that
but we're even seeing that even
on the younger generation
taking more of an interest now
in looking at retirement
benefits and things like that,
what we've done is we've had a
number of internal meetings.
I have executed an agreement
with grace our actuarial
consultant, to evaluate our
current retirement system.
We're talking only on the non
sworn officers only impacts six
individuals that are still
currently employed that are
pension eligible and then the
rest are all sworn officers
that make up our pension plan
and bring that back again
internally a number of
conversations that presented
back to the chief kind of put
it back on him and say what are
our top kind of five priorities
doing an analysis and
evaluation of what what's
offered at the state as well as
what all of the municipalities
in seminole county are offering
and what do we think might be
sort of our top five benefits.
So we could look at exploring,
which is the initiative that
we've undertaken with grace, as
I said, are actuarial consults.
>> the plan would be to come
back when they complete their
evaluation and that's in line.
It's a big undertaking.
It's a technical process and
utilizing them it's also a
credible evaluation and
independent source to look at
looking at those five options,
you know, those options and
what benefits what we might be
able to tackle and what I'll
say is that you're not seeing
in a 26 because none of that
has happened up until now.
I think this is really the
first movement of that needle
that's to start that
conversation.
i don't I know it's been talked
about and talked about, but you
know, it doesn't there hasn't
hadn't really been any real
moving of that needle and
direction.
This engagement with grc will
get us there to be able to then
be able to make some fiscal
decisions and you know what I
would tell our you know, our
employees and future employees
I mean, we're committed to to
evaluating and looking at that
we might be able to adopt some
of those options in you know,
in in f y 27 this this will be
done by the end of the calendar
year just in time for the f y
27 budget process as we go
through and look at that and we
can have that conversation at
that time around what can we
afford.
Maybe it's a phased in
approach.
It might be over one, two, 3 or
4 fiscal years.
You know, we don't know yet.
It's it's premature.
But I think you know, I think
we all realize that this is
necessary and we really need to
look at making sure that the
benefits that we're offering
are.
Yeah.
Are competitive and that's so
that's where that's where that
stands that has been covered
through the f y 25 process as
far as getting us there, the
completion of that and plans
for that fy 27 budget for some
bigger discussions and
conversations.
Right.
So we will work on it.
Yes.
Good.
thank you.
One more thing and this goes to
special assessment test call up
box reserve city attorney.
I'm looking at this here this
year.
Right.
I received some calls through
the year to say we hadn't done
any work on this wall.
We haven't been maintaining
this war and again, I was here
through that.
You were here through that you
you go through that correct me
if I'm wrong, but why should
they be this low?
Because this this seems like
something's not if if we
haven't been doing any work on
it.
Brian, you can tell me if I'm
wrong or right, but something
doesn't add up from what we
originally intended to where we
are today.
Am I missing something from
from what I can observe in
looking at that hawks reserve
wall, there has been some
maintenance but some of the
substantial costs that are
associated with the wall at
this point are far beyond just
regular repair and maintenance
cost.
There are some areas where the
footers are foundation is
starting are starting to fail,
which obviously poses a risk
that portions of the wall could
be in danger of falling.
We've had other areas where
we've had homeowners plant
things along the wall.
We've had people prune tree
root prune trees to put in
swimming pools without permits
and trees fall down in the
middle of hurricanes on top of
the wall, which is interesting.
So from from what I can see is
that the operating budget was
intended for some minor repairs
tuck pointing things like that.
But because of the age of the
wall, not the entire thing but
in some portions there are some
significant constructed
construction related costs that
MAY need to be explored in the
future to shore up the the
structural integrity of the
wall in certain locations.
Significant dollars in too
early to tell.
>> we're still going through
the rate assessment with nbfcs.
We're giving them the areas
that we've identified that MAY
need to be have significant
costs.
But once we have those those
projected costs and the
expenses back nbfcs will be
able to come back with a
funding recommendation based on
the number of homeowners that
are within the task will have
three.
And also keep in mind I believe
a certain number of those
homeowners that back up
directly to the wall do pay a
little bit more because they
have the the benefit of
essentially a fence in their
backyard and that's very
similar to what we see over on
oak course as well for the
residents that are adjacent to
tuscola road.
Those those residents have a
higher value because of the
walls presence there city
manager we keeping them abreast
of all of this yeah so that's I
think I was going to actually
add that as brian said one the
nbs rate study we're planning a
a community meeting.
This one's a little bit more of
a challenge as I think, you
know, parks reserve does not
have an hoa.
The city is essentially sort of
serving to some degree kind of
like that.
And you know, unlike the others
that have nearly appointed
board and you know, so they're
having that discussion from an
advisory that doesn't really
exist.
So what we're planning on doing
is put forth setting that
conversation up excuse me.
We want to understand what that
is looking like.
And you know, we certainly
internally have been having the
conversation.
But rest assured there will be
a community meeting in relation
to this and having and starting
that discussion when we have a
little bit more information so
that at this point.
>> thank you.
Thank you.
Any other questions?
Open floor seeing none.
>> MR. Mayor, if I could just
to just take another minute.
One thing that in absence of
leonard who was not here as
well.
Director of facilities and
capital projects and just again
,to sort of reiterate my
thinking with some of the
reorganization and restructure
think we have the I think you
MAY touch on that as well.
I think we have the right
people, you know, the right
team in place and the right
people and the oversight of
their roles.
None which of you know, some of
the restructuring with leonard
and putting our parks and
recreation urban beautification
under brian and his his years
of experience and oversight
there I think we'll see some
significant results from that
in addition to being able to
utilize leonard and his
background and experience what
walking into the city was
somewhat of a real shock to me
that a city of our size and our
infrastructure we we don't have
a facilities capital plan.
When I say that regarding our
building and municipal
infrastructure, millions of
dollars with no plan,
everything has been reactive.
We're placing one one window a
year in this building for
$2,500 instead of a
comprehensive evaluation and
analysis of all of our building
facilities.
So what you'll see in this
budget is a $75,000 number
coming from fund balance as a
one time that will do a
comprehensive dive into the
evaluation of all of our
municipal buildings so that we
can start to plan and have an
idea when it comes to projected
replacement timelines on what's
the expected life of everything
from building envelope roofs,
windows, mechanical systems as
well as projected dollar amount
for those replacement might be
something that is a projected
life of 15 years and we were
able to get 20 out of it or or
not.
But that where we stand today
is extremely reactive and we
can't operate that way.
So this budget does
particularly when it comes to
the facilities infrastructure
and this will be a big
component of of leonard's role
and his role as director of
facilities and capital projects
and spearheading and seeing
this through because we're
having extensive conversations
,particularly on the utilities
side and rightfully so.
But I also don't want to be in
a position we're having these
conversations based on lack of
,you know, maintenance and
decision making.
So we need to, you know, we
often don't talk enough about
our municipal facility
buildings, you know, as a piece
of that.
So I just wanted to highlight
that because it is in the
budget.
It is something you'll see
called out coming from fund
balance.
But I do fully believe there
will be some of the best money
spent in this budget as we, you
know, recognizing and seeing
and having the conversations
like you know, like I said,
replacing one window when you
know every window needs to be
replaced and really the
reactive ness and not the lack
of proactive planning for our
building facilities.
>> I mean and so when you see
that in there I just wanted to
highlight that and I know
you'll leonard when is excited
to get that going and in
addition it really be a
comprehensive plan that will
become part of our cip and it
will also provide an asset
evaluations of all of the
assets and be able to quantify
and tag that so you want to
share that piece.
Well, thank you.
I appreciate that.
You know, I talked about that
and this is yet another again,
a for lack of a better term,
it's a culture change.
>> and we look at cities like
oviedo that need that new
police department and they've
tried to put it before the
residents for bond initiatives
repeatedly.
They're struggling and that
even led to a conversation of
of doing away with the police
department and going to the
county.
What we're trying to do here
that's culture change of
planning for the long term and
not getting ourselves in a
position where we're we're
we're we're we're not being
fiscally responsible.
We've done a phenomenal job.
And again in counties I think
the proof is in the pudding if
we can continue to move the
needle and continue thinking
forward, this culture change, I
appreciate it.
Thank you for your leadership.
Thank.
Anyone else, MR. Mayor, you go.
>> no, no, you go.
Because I got three things and
I do too.
>> I have several waiting for
everybody to to complete.
Commissioner baker, would you
like that?
>> please go.
I guess just to to make sure
that we're setting the public
record straight since a work of
fiction was submitted to the
clerk for inclusion into the
public record.
And my question I guess
probably would be for the
finance director since you've
got the experience in kind of
what what the weighted numbers
here would be.
Just to clarify for the public
record when when someone claims
that winter springs has the
lowest millage rate, does that
actually provide an accurate
picture of the residents actual
tax burden
?
I'm not sure how to answer that
question.
I mean, is that an accurate
picture of the actual tax
burden be based on the
valuation of the community that
they live in?
Are you're talking about the
actual tax bill and what that
individual is paying is direct
correlation to the you know,
the assessed value of the home.
The residents they live in.
>> well, I mean, just to make
sure we're comparing apples to
apples and not apples to
slogans, I guess maybe we can
help the public understand how
do special assessments fees,
utility rates, surcharges, all
sorts of of fees and taxes, how
does that affect the total cost
to a resident per capita?
Is that is that reflected in
that village?
Right.
Yeah.
The budget drives drives that,
but it's not reflected in the
military which part?
>> so claiming that water
springs has a lowest military
doesn't actually provide an
accurate picture of what the
tax burden is to the residents
that correct it's just ad
valorem property.
>> yeah.
We're talking about the utility
rates and other fees and raw I
mean people have a tax burden
and a tax burden is not just
the military.
We continue to hear this
misinformation of a military
kind of like it that some some
kind of a benchmark.
And again, I, I, I would ask
the the any of the directors
and literacy manager I'm sure
you'll jump in is it accurate
that there are cities with
higher millage rates that have
smaller budgets, maybe even
fewer fees that would actually
place less of a financial
burden on their taxpayers
?
I didn't provide those numbers.
I in several county no.
From comparable no I don't
know.
I mean he went across 90
communities and you know, or
nine counties I don't know what
the individual breakdown that I
think what you're saying paul,
is that 80% of our population
or 80% is is residential and
20% or so is commercial.
And so the major bearings of
the expenses on the residential
is is that what you're saying?
Well, what I'm what I'm
actually saying is that it is a
false narrative to say that
just the military remaining
flat from one year to the next
reflects on the tax burden of
the residents.
And I think that that's
intellectually dishonest.
And we've heard statements
like, you know, nonsense about
fiscal conservatism or not, if
we adopt a flat millage rate
according to this budget.
but at the same time our
property tax collections which
are over half $1 million at at
this point under florida's
truth in millage law, the trim
law is still considered a tax
increase legally speaking, yes.
Okay.
So having said that, you know,
we've had some nice
conversations and questions
that have been asked about
about what we're spending and
and the revenue that we're
receiving.
And that's a good thing that
we're having these
conversations I'd like to bring
up at least three items that
that we can we can discuss.
I would I would suggest for
removal from the actual budget,
although there are millions of
dollars in the in the budget
that could be trimmed to at
least come in lower considering
that we're not only asking our
residents for a tax increase,
but then we've also just rolled
past a utility rate increase
after raising garbage fees
before that any property tax
millage increase the year
before that.
So I mean we've you know, we
continue to increase the tax
burden on residents.
>> you know, there's there's
there's a a deeper issue that
that that we would need to
confront and one that that
really transcends individual
line items and a lot of it is
what the omissions are in the
budget I've heard now multiple
times today said that this
budget has omissions in it.
There are items that are not in
this budget.
They do not tell the full story
of what we're actually
inevitably going to spend in
the next year and in the coming
years.
So we don't have that picture
based on this budget and I
understand this budget is not
going to go into the future
years, but it does go into the
current fiscal year which
starts in OCTOBER.
There are important costs that
are being deferred.
I don't want to say ignored,
but you know, we're not hearing
that they're going to be
happening there might be budget
amendments coming in in the
following in the coming year.
Do we have an actual dollar
amount of how much is not
included in this budget that
we're going to have to come
back as a body in the next
fiscal year to add usually
under the premise of if we
don't pass it, something
horrible is going to happen.
How much are is not in this
budget like a dollar amount.
>> so I would say that the
budget accounts for all of the
anticipated expenses with the
caveat as was stated by our
director of public works and
utilities that it would be
premature and frankly
irresponsible to make
assumptions based on the storm
water budget, on personnel and
expenses and projects prior to
the presentation of the
committee on $1.5 million
assessment that's being ongoing
now for a year and a half for
us to come up and make
assumptions and just
arbitrarily say we need x
amount of people in this
budget, the prudent thing would
be to wait for that study as
was indicated, which is going
to be presented in the first
meeting OCTOBER at the latest,
will then tie into ralph us
rate study which is an
extremely comprehensive model
to determine what rates are
needed in order to address it
and then have the bigger
conversation with you folks,
the commissioners some
decisions that are going to
have to be made around
maintenance of private ponds
and you know, the like.
That's just one piece of it.
So I would say this budget the
only thing that we be looking
at is from a budget amendment
as far as you know, looking to
increase would be the storm
water.
When you're talking about
amendments that's we've had
this conversation I think one
of the only municipalities and
frankly archaic is that, you
know, we don't have control I
don't have control at the at
the fund level.
Our budget is as you'll you
know, as you see presented
before you as a department
level control extremely
inefficient and not very
effective, which means that
needs to come back for me to
sit here and tell you today.
Absolutely they'll be budget
transfers and budget amendments
that will come back to you
because that's the way we're
structured and the way we're
set up to do.
That's not that's reallocation
of money.
We're looking at, you know, 18
months of planning we could
never possibly project where
our priorities are any
particular budget year.
In a similar analogy, if you
young you know, as a homeowner
would have if you your
priorities shift and your
budgeted this year to replace
your ac unit and your roof goes
you've got to shift priorities
well you need to move that
money to cover your roof and
that's what that's what we do
here.
So you know, as a budget total
as a bottom line budget, no,
there'll be no change by
department then and priorities
absolutely and no different
than any government budget,
especially more so here because
the commission has approved
those outside of the department
level budget.
>> so so at this point any any
items that we were to remove
would just go back to our
general fund, call it savings
if you will.
So we had to prioritize in the
future replacing the ac versus
the roof like your example
states, we would have more
money for that because
obviously the debt service is
already there.
There's some expenses we
already have to have there's
some there's some items that
cannot move and obviously, you
know, public safety utilities,
public works those are core
functions of government.
But there are a lot of items
that are here in contained that
are not functions of
government.
They're there, you know, merely
they are for for our own you
know, entertainment, if you
will.
is it is it fair to say that if
we went through the budget
nicely and started trimming
items, we would probably have
more money for other priorities
down the line that we MAY have
to vote on in the coming year
any any money, any expenditures
that aren't spent would close
out to yeah, to fund balance.
That's an accurate statement.
The question of whether it's
needed or not is a bigger
conversation because I don't
know what in particular you're
referencing but the budget
that's proposed we feel is the
budget that's needed to
maintain services in our
operations if we're, you know,
nickel and diming a supply item
in a particular budget and you
know, the commission feels like
we need to now instead of 500,
it should be $250.
I mean that's the commission's
prerogative to adopt the
budget.
This is the proposed budget
that is being recommended and
we feel we need to run and
operate this city and I can
appreciate you attempting to
minimize the cuts by showing de
minimus expenses which clear is
not what I'm referencing
respectfully, you haven't said
what it is your reference so
well you know we're we're
should we start because it's
millions of dollars but let's
just let's just keep it simple
.
Let's just talk about and we
have a little bit of this
conversation.
There's a $75,000 expense for
the U.S. I think you better you
see I receives public funds and
has a very large university as
well, the largest footprints in
student populations on the face
of this planet.
Yet our city is asked to raise
taxes and increase the burden
on our residents to give the
ucf incubator 70 5000 without
any actual roi to the city.
That would be something very
simple that with just a pen
stroke this body could get and
say hey look, you know what?
Let's put that $75,000 back
into our coffers.
Let's keep it there in case we
do have a stormwater issue in
case we do have something that
comes up that that would be one
example.
And I mean there's there's many
in the budget like that but
that would be what I mean would
would this body consider
returning that 75,000 and
moving and moving on from that
expense that the city has?
>> can I respond to that,
mayor?
I believe we have an agreement
and we're still in that
agreement.
Third year signed last year,
three year contract so we can
have that conversation at a
fair.
We can have that conversation.
But we can't do that this year.
>> yes, we can't because that
agreement is due to funding and
it's subject to funding and I
am suggesting that we do not
find that line item.
>> okay.
Yeah.
That you've been heard.
>> all right.
So then let's let's move on to
to something that is relatively
egregious.
I don't know which one I want
to start with first if I want
to start with the amount of
spending in one department or
if we just want to kind of keep
it amongst ourselves up here.
I think many of you know that I
am a presidential level alumni
of leadership seven all very
proud to have gone through
leadership several when I went
through leadership summit, all
that was an expense that I took
on as a private business owner
in seminole county with a
national tax practice because I
wanted to increase my companies
roi.
I looked at that tuition which
is about $3,500 as a personal
investment into myself and my
company.
>> it is it is meant to be
leadership development for the
private sector.
Obviously like most functions
that operate within these
chambers of commerce, they tend
to also get your nonprofits in
and government representatives
.
There's a very big difference
between someone who works for
the city, a city staff, you
know, for example yourself, MR.
City manager, my classmate
turlock.
We went through leadership
summit all together.
Sort of big difference between
someone who is long term with
the city versus somebody who is
elected and subject to
obviously the whims of
democracy.
>> the the the the use of
taxpayer dollars.
We're talking about $3,500 a
year for elected officials, you
know, comparable appointees, if
you will.
>> but political, you know, for
political well elected
officials to attend leadership
center on the $3,500 tuition
that represents 30% increase in
the commissioners salaries and
annual compensation that look,
that's a disproportionate
fringe benefit.
So we could say it's minimal.
We could say, you know, de
minimus like you were using the
example of 200 at the expense
I'm talking about $3,500 to
benefit somebodies political
career, not to actually bring a
benefit to the city, a tangible
again or why as a business
owner I said how much you might
spending on leadership seminar?
How much do I intend to get in
in order to my company for that
dollar that I invested and I
did I generate clientele from
that because that was what my
intention was in doing the
program.
Like any other marketing
program, this is not a required
training.
It's not tied to any statutory
or governance mandate.
The optics and ethics you know,
here are you know, I can go on
with that but city funds should
not be subsidizing personal
resume
building or networking
opportunities for politicians.
Obviously if an elected
official believes that that's
going to provide them a
benefit, they are more than
welcome to, you know, pull out
their american express card and
pay leadership seminar the
tuition for that but not the
taxpayers of winter springs who
already have a very large per
capita tax burden based on on
on our population size and size
of our budget to have to go on
.
We actually were going to be
out of time here and want
commissioner bruce to be able
to speak to or we've got about
eight minutes left.
Your points made.
You do not believe we should be
letting elected officials
participate in this year alone
class.
We can schedule that we can
discuss it.
I wouldn't be opposed to maybe
setting some policies on it,
but but at this point you've
been hurt and this is a yes.
I think maybe that might even
be elected maybe to make a
motion to have that removed
from the budget.
If there's a second, we can go
there.
Oh, that's right.
We're not voting.
It's a workshop.
So the workshop and the
workshop.
So you've been heard.
We're running out of time here.
Okay.
>> you've been hurt.
Very.
Can I just ask for a quick.
Yeah, I'm well, would you mind
putting all of those thoughts
down for for budget for people
and and discussing each of
those line items that you feel
are unnecessary?
>> I think that would be really
helpful.
No, absolutely.
And I and I'd love to and we
can have that robust discussion
on on many items.
But you know, I have I have
another that is quite egregious
as well and it goes more into
what the objectives would be of
some of the things that that
that we do.
And I and I really do want to
raise serious concerns for the
general public about the level
of spending that is allocated
to the communications division
.
We pride ourselves in being a
bedroom community.
We have 90% residential
basically.
You know, we you know, the
mayor just gave us a whole
lecture about how fiscally
conservative we are in culture
,but yet, you know, as vocally
resistance we are the unchecked
development.
You know, why are we spending
so much money to have a city
controlled narrative?
Because when government
messaging okay, of this
magnitude, we're talking about
some pretty serious dollars in
this budget.
You're starting to blur the
lines between public
information and public
relations.
And when taxpayer dollars are
used to shape perception
ultimately now we're talking
about something that
historically resembles
propaganda by definition.
And we can we can we can look
at the the definition itself,
you know, just simple
dictionary search there.
>> our current budget includes,
you know about $100,000 for
video production for pr
consulting, for rebranding
initiative.
So we're trying to rebrand our
city.
>> I guess we need pr
consultants to tell us how to
spin.
I mean, that's what it is a pr
consultant, a spin doctor.
>> and we're asking the
taxpayers we're asking the
taxpayers to have in our budget
us pay for a depart meant that
is going to shape a narrative
to figure out how the people
should think these are not
essential services.
They don't fix roads, they
don't improve drainage, they
don't make our residents any
safer basically it's literally
an expense to drive a narrative
and I mean just these three
alone, a 30% pay increase for
city commissioners funding
propaganda and on top of that,
you know, just just looking at
the deeper issues that are that
are involved not related to
public safety, you know, and
not getting a specific roi for
the city, for example, like the
incubator shows that the budget
still can be leader.
And I appreciate the city
manager.
>> I know what what what went
in to at least come in at where
that villages it's still a tax
increase but I get it and I see
where we're at as far as that
millage increase number not
going up but the tax burden on
the residents is going up and
we're asking them to fund a
fringe benefit for
commissioners $75,000, no roi
for the for the for the
incubator a an entire
department just for narrative
that is just I mean it's
shocking honestly.
So I mean I think that there
are a lot of discussions to be
had.
I don't know how much of this
is going to make it into our
city commission agendas or what
have you.
But I definitely would like at
least to bring that to the
attention of the residents that
there's a lot more in this
budget that would have to be
discussed and it's money that
could specifically go to public
safety, specifically go to
utilities, specifically go to
public works, improve our parks
and none of that that I just
described does that.
>> thank you, sir.
Thank you, commissioner bruce
carl robert, where do you see
pr in here?
>> because I didn't see that
it's in the it's in the budget
for the public comment
communication 45,000 is video
45,000 for video and how much
for pr public bond player now
does anyone know what pages is
on?
I'm trying to find it for me.
Couldn't what's that
maybe is
center times on a crunch let's
assume that the commissioners
correct and it's 45,000 or
whatever that number was
$90,000 just in those expenses
that I earmarked 75,000 for the
incubator and another
undisclosed amount depending on
how many people go for class
36, 37, 38.
And so on.
And commissioner bruce, you
have them recruitment.
So what is the question?
>> oh, I was just wondering
where this public relations
expense was because maybe we
can come back and then revisit
that, will find it and send it
out to everybody.
>> it just makes the point
yeah, right.
Yeah.
But if they had all the
financial numbers so okay,
other questions here then if we
are done I would ask for a ten
minute recess if that's okay
with everybody.
Do you have a problem with us
starting a couple of minutes
late for the commission
meeting?
I think in your book we are
supposed to public input,
aren't we?
That one?
Yeah, but it's an agenda item
on the agenda item and we
didn't change.
>> so you're marked differently
.
We will do that then.
Ladies and gentlemen, we'll
open this to public input.
This is specifically about the
budget.
We will then after public input
will take a ten minute recess,
will reopen and then there'll
be another public input.
This is specifically about the
budget workshop.
>> if you want louder more
comment on the budget workshop
.
>> I know right now is your
time.
Then we'll start the official
meeting of parks commission
meeting ten minutes later.
>> so anyone MR. Go
.
>> good evening art yellow 199
and dana first I wanted to
start off by thanking and
congratulating the city
manager, the directors that
gave the presentation asians,
especially the finance
committee that did all the hard
work and the staff behind the
scenes and all my time sort of
attending these budget meetings
and listening to it.
>> this is probably the most
informative and best
presentations on the budget
that I've seen so I want to
thank everyone for that because
I very much appreciate it.
And I, I actually came here to
talk about a pension study that
was brought to the commission's
attention last MAY of 24 that
compared to seven cities
pension and with the county and
and the f iris regular class
and I was happy to hear both
commissioner resnick and
commissioner caruso ask about
that because I think we need to
take a look at our city
pension.
>> we've done a lot on salaries
and our pension according to
this study anyway, I think you
ought to take another look at
it and we can do better because
ultimately we worry about
recruitment of the best people
and retaining the best people.
And part of that once we get
the best people to the city, we
want to keep them here.
So we've got the salaries under
control now we're in the
ballpark.
We're very competitive there.
But when you look at the
pension, we're not so
conceivably we can spend two
years training of police
officer hypothetically and the
next thing you know they go to
a sister city because their
pension plan is a lot better.
So I think we really need to
look at that.
>> and the thing that surprised
me on that is that after 30
years you continue to put into
the pension and if you want to
stay in the city you don't gain
anything by making that a
yearly input to the pension.
So if you have great people you
want to keep them around, it's
really costing them money.
So we need to look at that.
And I also mentioned our cost
of living allowance is zero in
there and I think everybody
else's well, if you look at
this study you'll see it.
I want to thank everybody.
It was a great discussion and
like I and I appreciate it.
Thank you.
Thank you, MR. Gallo, anyone
else that would like to comment
on the budget, MISS Schaefer
,
gina schaefer, the winter
springs village.
>> I was going to I don't know
if I'm even allowed to ask, but
I figure I'll ask anyway.
Where last year on the budget
there was approval for wetlands
park to be have a wall built on
it or whatever and I wanted to
make sure that we're still
getting that wall built on
there, which it happened in
OCTOBER but of last year that
they started talking about
that.
But I want to make sure that we
are still getting that because
we do get flooded because we
have big blue that sits out on
the wetlands park because of
the rain.
It's a pump.
Just to give you an f y, you
MAY not even know that there's
a pump out on the the park, but
it's so that we don't get
flooded.
So I don't know if you're aware
of that, but I do want to know
that we're still getting that.
And also in the budget last
year I'm talking about not this
year but we also did not get
reclaimed water yet which we
are supposed to be piped for
reclaimed water and that was
also in the budget.
So can anybody say if I'm if
we're getting it and we're not
getting it or whatever, I think
we'll have to look into that.
No, I will ask.
I've got it notes.
I know that you and I had
spoken.
I have to get answers from
clete and find out what's going
on and then contact the the
specific project that that was
that was one listed two months
from yeah, we're going to talk
about it and what I'm going to
do.
Yeah, we're going to do a
question and answer during
public input.
>> right.
But I didn't think this was a
question.
>> I thought we are allowed to
ask questions in a workshop
workshop in a workshop which
this is it's okay input.
I believe a no I can I beg to
differ.
It's a workshop.
Okay.
It's meant to be interactive.
Yes.
Into.
Do you know what we're talking
about?
I can speak specifically in a
wetland park that's ongoing.
There is funding.
it's ongoing.
Our working with pegasus
engineering, our storm water
consultant.
Some of the issues have been
around working with the
regulatory folks about and they
think there's going to be some
costs that weren't anticipated
regarding mitigation bank and
some other issues that are
starting to arise.
But it is absolutely ongoing.
It's it's continued effort.
They were talking about the
michael blake yes we claim
extension yes that is in the
budget it is budgeted for we
received a state appropriation
for 380,000 of which is half of
our request.
We requested 760,000.
A project as a whole is going
to be probably about 1.3
million or so on the max end,
the high end if you will.
What we're doing is in the f y
26 budget you'll see in this
budget as part of the capital
plan, there is the the required
match that that the city is
responsible for.
In addition, we're also working
with st john's to try to get
them so having conversation
with st john's about matching
our share of the match so if
all things play out well we're
see where we receive the
380,000 from the state
appropriation and our share to
finish that project.
We're hoping that st john's
will cover half of that but
we've also budgeted for our
portion as well.
Okay.
>> because it's continually
ongoing because they said when
it came from across the street
from the crossings that we
would definitely be plugged in
and that happened like a year
and a half ago.
So that's why I'm asking and
it's for my my development
because we use regular water to
water our lawns and we have
always been plumbed for
reclaimed water and the
development is over 13 years
old.
>> so that's why our project is
moving forward.
We are fortunate to receive
that state appropriation
funding.
It's going to be the extension
from hickory grove connection
to go to 434 which will include
point to springs village.
>> thank you so much.
Thank you.
Anyone else specifically before
we take a ten minute break that
wants to comment about the
budget.
Seeing none we'll start a ten
minute break so you have to
adjourn this meeting.
>> excuse me?
You're going to adjourn the
workshop?
Yeah.
It's not take a recess.
So you're going to enter?
Oh, I'm sorry.
Thank you.
For the record, we are
adjourning the workshop and we
will reconvene.
We will then start over with