1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:01,680
All

2
00:00:01,680 --> 00:00:03,600
right.

3
00:00:03,600 --> 00:00:05,920
>> Um, so

4
00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:09,440
everyone's tried to figure out

5
00:00:09,440 --> 00:00:11,200
like how many how much taxes could Water

6
00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:13,440
Street possibly bring in. And the answer

7
00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:16,560
is we don't know. The reason we don't

8
00:00:16,560 --> 00:00:18,880
know is property values change every

9
00:00:18,880 --> 00:00:21,119
year. State law dictates how property

10
00:00:21,119 --> 00:00:24,080
values change. New economic conditions

11
00:00:24,080 --> 00:00:26,800
come into effect frequently and new

12
00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:29,359
developments are really expensive.

13
00:00:29,359 --> 00:00:32,719
uh the way our assessor determines sale

14
00:00:32,719 --> 00:00:36,000
prices are different depending on the

15
00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:40,399
type of of of land use. So there's the

16
00:00:40,399 --> 00:00:42,320
sales comparison approach which everyone

17
00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:44,399
who owns a house in the city their house

18
00:00:44,399 --> 00:00:46,320
is valued based on a two-year sales

19
00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:47,840
analysis

20
00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:51,039
set kind of frozen based on when you

21
00:00:51,039 --> 00:00:52,800
bought your house. And so every two

22
00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:55,120
years the city will reassess your

23
00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:56,640
property

24
00:00:56,640 --> 00:00:59,760
and kind of increase it in two values.

25
00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:02,000
But but that's the sales comparison.

26
00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:03,440
Then there's the income approach which

27
00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:06,400
is typically done through residential uh

28
00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:08,960
apartments or commercial apartments

29
00:01:08,960 --> 00:01:11,280
where how much income are you bringing

30
00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:13,680
in that assigns the value and there's a

31
00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:16,240
formula and the cost approach. This is a

32
00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:18,320
commercial or industrial style way of

33
00:01:18,320 --> 00:01:19,840
assessing property taxes, which is

34
00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:22,560
taking square footage and location and

35
00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:25,200
kind of matching those. So when you're

36
00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:26,720
coming to a development like Water

37
00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:28,240
Street,

38
00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:30,799
you have rental, you're going to have

39
00:01:30,799 --> 00:01:34,079
probably some commercial um and then uh

40
00:01:34,079 --> 00:01:36,560
also uh coming at industrial, but but

41
00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:38,720
realistically commercial can go either

42
00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:40,479
on the cost or the income approach,

43
00:01:40,479 --> 00:01:43,759
whereas any single family or duplex

44
00:01:43,759 --> 00:01:45,280
being built will be done the sales

45
00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:46,960
comparison approach. So it's really

46
00:01:46,960 --> 00:01:51,520
challenging to kind of set a value. Um,

47
00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:54,720
with that said,

48
00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:56,720
I've kind of tried to pull some numbers

49
00:01:56,720 --> 00:01:58,240
and I think the numbers that I pulled

50
00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:02,159
are very conservative. Um, and so to

51
00:02:02,159 --> 00:02:03,439
give everyone kind of understanding,

52
00:02:03,439 --> 00:02:06,560
right now the city's total taxable value

53
00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:11,360
is $433 million. Okay, that's easy to

54
00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:12,959
digest.

55
00:02:12,959 --> 00:02:15,120
Looking at estimated development, we

56
00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:18,560
kind of put that number at 150 million.

57
00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:21,760
Okay, which would give a tax revenue of

58
00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:25,120
$75 million, which is a lot. Uh, and

59
00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:27,360
that would bring in an estimated5 to $6

60
00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:31,120
million, okay, of revenue. Now, that's

61
00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:34,800
in all taxes being levied. That's not to

62
00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:38,720
the city. The city it would be $1.7 to

63
00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:40,480
$1.9 million, which would be a huge

64
00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:42,800
impact to the city's budget. However,

65
00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:43,599
yes.

66
00:02:43,599 --> 00:02:46,080
>> What is who gets the remaining money? Uh

67
00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:49,440
the county, the state, schools,

68
00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:51,200
>> any of that federal money?

69
00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:51,760
>> No.

70
00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:53,920
>> Okay.

71
00:02:53,920 --> 00:02:57,670
>> Oh,

72
00:02:57,680 --> 00:02:59,120
one of the problems that we have in the

73
00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:01,920
state is we have two competing property.

74
00:03:01,920 --> 00:03:05,360
You guys will get this this pro this presentation at the end of it.

75
00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:05,760
>> Yeah.

76
00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:07,040
>> The reason why we haven't sent it out is

77
00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:08,560
if you have questions, I might be able

78
00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:12,319
to add a slide real quick or add some context. And so I want to make sure

79
00:03:12,319 --> 00:03:13,680
you have the full information based on

80
00:03:13,680 --> 00:03:14,959
the questions you ask in the

81
00:03:14,959 --> 00:03:16,879
presentation. So you will get it at

82
00:03:16,879 --> 00:03:19,120
latest tomorrow. So please don't feel

83
00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:20,640
you can you can take pictures but you're

84
00:03:20,640 --> 00:03:22,080
going to get these slides with maybe a

85
00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:23,200
little bit.

86
00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:26,080
>> Okay. Um

87
00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:28,239
the state of Michigan one of the

88
00:03:28,239 --> 00:03:31,760
constraints and I know mayor and and and

89
00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:34,720
Steve and uh Mr. Fresno understand this

90
00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:38,560
very well. Are we are constrained um in

91
00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:40,879
how property taxes are collected by two

92
00:03:40,879 --> 00:03:44,319
competing uh laws that are in the state

93
00:03:44,319 --> 00:03:46,080
constitution which is the Headley

94
00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:47,519
amendment which means if your taxable

95
00:03:47,519 --> 00:03:49,280
value goes up your village rate rolls

96
00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:51,840
back and then Prop A which means your

97
00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:53,280
property value is set and it can only go

98
00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:56,400
up cost of living. And so depending on

99
00:03:56,400 --> 00:03:58,000
how much value you're adding to your

100
00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:00,720
city, um the city's ability to collect

101
00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:05,120
taxes is strength. Okay. So that's kind

102
00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:08,000
of the, you know, development scenario.

103
00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:11,040
Now, for a much smaller development, uh

104
00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:12,640
and the city that's that's being talked

105
00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:14,319
about right now, they're talking about

106
00:04:14,319 --> 00:04:17,600
it being $150 million for about a 4 acre

107
00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:20,880
parcel. And so realistically, this is

108
00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:24,160
very small. However, if we're talking

109
00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:27,280
about more not extremely high density

110
00:04:27,280 --> 00:04:29,759
residential, the $150 million is

111
00:04:29,759 --> 00:04:32,479
probably a little bit more realistic. If

112
00:04:32,479 --> 00:04:34,320
we're talking about much more dense,

113
00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:36,160
high urban development, we'll get into

114
00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:38,479
some of the challenges there. Um, this

115
00:04:38,479 --> 00:04:40,639
is way low, but I felt like it was good

116
00:04:40,639 --> 00:04:43,040
to kind of show you what what that

117
00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:45,360
means. Uh and we also calculated it

118
00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:48,080
based on developments in the city uh

119
00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:49,600
that have happened that would kind of

120
00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:53,440
equal about 31 acres uh like Clark Road

121
00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:57,919
and Thompson block and um you know town

122
00:04:57,919 --> 00:04:59,440
center even and things like that. So we

123
00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:00,639
had to try to take it and that's where

124
00:05:00,639 --> 00:05:03,919
we got to the $150 million uh uh value.

125
00:05:03,919 --> 00:05:06,880
However, once again, if we developed

126
00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:08,960
every inch of the 31 acres, it's going

127
00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:12,320
to be much higher than $150 million. And

128
00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:15,759
then yeah, I think I said it, but taxes,

129
00:05:15,759 --> 00:05:18,080
you take the value, cut it in half, and

130
00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:20,000
that's how you get the assessed value.

131
00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:21,759
That's what we got. $75 million in

132
00:05:21,759 --> 00:05:23,919
estimated tax.

133
00:05:23,919 --> 00:05:25,280
>> Any questions on that?

134
00:05:25,280 --> 00:05:26,720
>> Yes.

135
00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:29,360
>> In your $150 million, how much of that

136
00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:33,120
is uh utility infrastructure?

137
00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:36,000
>> Um,

138
00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:39,199
probably 20%. Um, it depends. Does that

139
00:05:39,199 --> 00:05:40,800
tax does that fall in the same taxable

140
00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:41,840
category?

141
00:05:41,840 --> 00:05:43,280
>> Yes. Well,

142
00:05:43,280 --> 00:05:46,880
>> because if that's city infrastructure,

143
00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:47,600
>> it depends.

144
00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:49,199
>> So for any development, the city does

145
00:05:49,199 --> 00:05:51,039
not have to put in that infrastructure.

146
00:05:51,039 --> 00:05:52,479
It would the developer would have to

147
00:05:52,479 --> 00:05:54,720
actually install that infrastructure and

148
00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:56,080
so it would end up being turned back

149
00:05:56,080 --> 00:05:58,000
over to the city, but it wouldn't be it

150
00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:03,189
would be part of the development.

151
00:06:03,199 --> 00:06:04,880
You're giving me a look and so I'm

152
00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:06,560
>> I'm just I'm just thinking through

153
00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:07,759
whether

154
00:06:07,759 --> 00:06:09,039
>> the city would

155
00:06:09,039 --> 00:06:11,280
>> it will actually inform the tax

156
00:06:11,280 --> 00:06:12,800
structure in the coming years.

157
00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:14,560
>> So the city wouldn't be installing roads

158
00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:16,000
for a new development. The development

159
00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:17,759
>> think like sewer lines

160
00:06:17,759 --> 00:06:19,120
>> sewer lines the developer would have to

161
00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:21,600
bring the sewer line from the the tap.

162
00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:24,000
So and this doesn't count for the sewer

163
00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:25,600
line running down Michigan

164
00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:26,880
>> right the developer would have to bring

165
00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:28,080
it from Michigan Avenue.

166
00:06:28,080 --> 00:06:29,600
>> Okay. And the other question is how much

167
00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:34,080
of the 150 million is Brownfield

168
00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:35,440
dealing with Brownfield issues.

169
00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:36,800
>> We're going to get to that

170
00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:39,919
>> before we go forward. What I want to ask

171
00:06:39,919 --> 00:06:41,600
based off his question, are you saying

172
00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:45,280
that the um the money that's being made

173
00:06:45,280 --> 00:06:47,120
maybe for the sewer would not developer

174
00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:48,319
have to pay that even though it's going

175
00:06:48,319 --> 00:06:49,919
to still come back to the city? So it's

176
00:06:49,919 --> 00:06:51,680
not like coming out of the city dying

177
00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:53,039
even though it's part of the

178
00:06:53,039 --> 00:06:55,600
>> Yes. So, for a developer to to put in

179
00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:58,160
water and sewer lines, roads, and it

180
00:06:58,160 --> 00:06:59,280
really depends on how it's all

181
00:06:59,280 --> 00:07:02,720
negotiated in the overall package, um

182
00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:05,360
the developer has to pay for right now

183
00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:07,280
with water and sewer lines, developer

184
00:07:07,280 --> 00:07:10,000
has to put it in, but then Yaka is the

185
00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:11,599
one that owns the water and sewer lines

186
00:07:11,599 --> 00:07:13,840
eventually, but you have to service your

187
00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:17,840
properties. And so, um so Yaka is not

188
00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:19,599
out any money to install the new water

189
00:07:19,599 --> 00:07:21,599
and sewer lines, but they are owned at

190
00:07:21,599 --> 00:07:24,720
the end. streets. Same way, a lot of

191
00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:27,199
developments outside of the city of Seni

192
00:07:27,199 --> 00:07:29,120
have private roads in their development.

193
00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:31,199
The city has really tried not to do

194
00:07:31,199 --> 00:07:32,960
that. Now, there's private parking lots

195
00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:35,360
and within developments, but roads the

196
00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:37,039
city hasn't really we don't have any

197
00:07:37,039 --> 00:07:39,520
private roads in the city. We have some

198
00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:42,000
alleys that are kind of private and kind

199
00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:43,440
of shared, but but for the most part, we

200
00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:45,039
don't have any private roads. That is

201
00:07:45,039 --> 00:07:46,800
something the city could consider in

202
00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:49,199
Water Street. It just depends on what

203
00:07:49,199 --> 00:07:53,599
this committee would would recommend.

204
00:07:53,599 --> 00:07:56,800
There's pros and cons to both. You can have a lot more control on a

205
00:07:56,800 --> 00:08:00,160
private road, but you also

206
00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:03,199
um have to maintain a public road

207
00:08:03,199 --> 00:08:04,639
whereas the developing window. Yes.

208
00:08:04,639 --> 00:08:06,319
>> What would be the benefit of having a

209
00:08:06,319 --> 00:08:08,000
private road?

210
00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:10,560
>> That we would not have to maintain it.

211
00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:12,000
We wouldn't have to plow it. We wouldn't

212
00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:16,240
have to uh we wouldn't have to fix it.

213
00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:19,039
Nothing. liability mostly.

214
00:08:19,039 --> 00:08:21,120
>> Yeah,

215
00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:22,479
>> at that point it would essentially be a

216
00:08:22,479 --> 00:08:24,479
gated.

217
00:08:24,479 --> 00:08:26,800
>> I mean it could be. However, the city

218
00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:28,160
would never allow a gated community

219
00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:30,960
based on their zoning or so could be.

220
00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:32,719
Yes, we would never allow it.

221
00:08:32,719 --> 00:08:35,039
>> I I have a card. I thought I heard

222
00:08:35,039 --> 00:08:37,519
something. So these estimates are based

223
00:08:37,519 --> 00:08:40,159
on development of 4 acres. Does that

224
00:08:40,159 --> 00:08:40,880
make sense?

225
00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:43,039
>> No.

226
00:08:43,039 --> 00:08:45,279
you could get $150 million easily on a

227
00:08:45,279 --> 00:08:47,279
4acre parcel.

228
00:08:47,279 --> 00:08:50,320
Okay. However, and of taking everything

229
00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:52,560
$150 million was kind of the first

230
00:08:52,560 --> 00:08:57,040
estimate, it could be $450 million,

231
00:08:57,040 --> 00:08:59,279
but I'm what I wanted to do is kind of

232
00:08:59,279 --> 00:09:01,440
take a number that is digestible based

233
00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:05,279
on the what is on the ground right now.

234
00:09:05,279 --> 00:09:08,080
Um, and it depends on the density of

235
00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:09,440
housing. I'm

236
00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:12,320
>> sorry, one more. Um,

237
00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:15,440
150 is like all of the money that the

238
00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:18,560
developer is putting into

239
00:09:18,560 --> 00:09:20,160
as for a partial, you know,

240
00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:23,360
hypothetically 150 million or it's what

241
00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:27,360
they would expect to earn after they

242
00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:28,880
>> we'll get a little bit of it out.

243
00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:30,240
>> Okay.

244
00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:32,000
>> So, we'll get

245
00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:34,880
>> No, there's a lot, you know, I think

246
00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:37,519
we're on slide three right now. So, um

247
00:09:37,519 --> 00:09:39,839
there's no there's a lot. No, this is

248
00:09:39,839 --> 00:09:41,920
development is really complicated and

249
00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:45,120
it's complex and that's why I'm here.

250
00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:49,360
So, um but no, I will get more into the

251
00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:53,670
costs. Okay.

252
00:09:53,680 --> 00:09:55,680
Sorry. I know talking about taxes and

253
00:09:55,680 --> 00:09:59,519
how it works is kind of boring. Um

254
00:09:59,519 --> 00:10:02,000
so, one way that you can help offset

255
00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:03,839
some of the infrastructure costs that

256
00:10:03,839 --> 00:10:06,399
we've talked about is by providing

257
00:10:06,399 --> 00:10:08,880
incentives. So incentives can happen

258
00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:11,680
through tax increment financing. They

259
00:10:11,680 --> 00:10:14,880
can happen through pilots. These are two

260
00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:17,920
things the city has done in very recent

261
00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:20,079
uh history. One of the things that the

262
00:10:20,079 --> 00:10:22,320
city has done for every time we've done

263
00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:26,720
a a tiff a tax income refinancing is

264
00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:29,519
essentially allow for almost 100% of the

265
00:10:29,519 --> 00:10:32,320
value to be tiff. So it's everything but

266
00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:34,560
bonds and and and some school taxes

267
00:10:34,560 --> 00:10:36,480
cannot be tiffed.

268
00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:38,800
And it's kind of 100% when you have Yes.

269
00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:40,560
>> Could you do a brief explanation of what

270
00:10:40,560 --> 00:10:42,720
a tiff is so that folks that don't know?

271
00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:44,640
Does everyone know what a tiff is?

272
00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:44,880
>> Yes.

273
00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:45,760
>> Okay.

274
00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:48,320
No, a tiff is basically the value

275
00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:50,240
of the property is what it is today.

276
00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:52,240
Right now it's zero because the city

277
00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:55,040
owns it. A tiff basically sets the value

278
00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:57,920
at what it is uh when it would turn come

279
00:10:57,920 --> 00:10:59,519
off the tax roll as vacant. And so

280
00:10:59,519 --> 00:11:01,040
there'd be a little value and then

281
00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:05,519
anything above that could be captured to

282
00:11:05,519 --> 00:11:07,200
pay for certain improvements which

283
00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:09,360
there's a laundry list that we need.

284
00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:13,360
Okay. Um one of the things that we know

285
00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:14,720
is development's expensive and we're

286
00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:16,000
going to really get into some of the

287
00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:18,480
costs on development and why why things

288
00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:21,040
need to have some incentives. Um and

289
00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:23,200
this but what I've kind of done is show

290
00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:25,120
I'm I'm going to show you right now. Oh,

291
00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:27,600
sorry. So basically a developer can

292
00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:29,279
collect

293
00:11:29,279 --> 00:11:33,760
the increment in taxes to pay for very

294
00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:37,040
specific eligible expenses. Okay? And

295
00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:39,920
we'll get into what that is.

296
00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:41,600
Um one of the things that the city has

297
00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:43,279
not done in the past but I would

298
00:11:43,279 --> 00:11:44,720
recommend for any development going

299
00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:47,600
forward is if an incentive were to be

300
00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:49,360
done

301
00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:53,760
it couldn't go over a 50% tip. What does

302
00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:56,320
that mean? It means that 50% of the

303
00:11:56,320 --> 00:11:59,200
value in that increment would go to the

304
00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:02,560
city for general operations. 50% would

305
00:12:02,560 --> 00:12:04,079
go

306
00:12:04,079 --> 00:12:07,680
to the fund to fund the improvements

307
00:12:07,680 --> 00:12:11,279
that that need to happen. And so,

308
00:12:11,279 --> 00:12:13,760
um, and there's a lot of benefits on why

309
00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:16,639
taking 50% and and authorizing it for

310
00:12:16,639 --> 00:12:19,120
TIF is important. And that's because the

311
00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:21,680
city only receives,

312
00:12:21,680 --> 00:12:23,920
you know, almost $2 million out of the

313
00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:26,880
$6 million. And so we could actually

314
00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:31,440
receive other entities taxes to help pay

315
00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:34,240
for the infrastructure on their belt.

316
00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:34,320
Can

317
00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:35,920
>> you explain that more simply from the

318
00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:38,480
point of view of the developer?

319
00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:40,720
>> Yes. So a developer when a developer

320
00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:44,560
comes into a city they are required to

321
00:12:44,560 --> 00:12:47,680
make a profit because they are borrowing

322
00:12:47,680 --> 00:12:52,240
money from a bank. Okay? And so when you

323
00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:54,320
are putting all the expenses on the

324
00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:57,040
table, they have to be able to pay back

325
00:12:57,040 --> 00:12:59,360
the loans they're getting for this

326
00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:02,160
development and make enough profit that

327
00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:04,720
the bank says yes, you're not going to

328
00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:08,079
go under by doing this development.

329
00:13:08,079 --> 00:13:11,200
And so the city can offer it to TIFF in

330
00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:13,279
order to help pay for some of the

331
00:13:13,279 --> 00:13:16,240
eligible expenses to

332
00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:18,079
um

333
00:13:18,079 --> 00:13:22,079
to allow the

334
00:13:22,079 --> 00:13:23,600
certain things to happen that to to

335
00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:26,079
reduce the cost so it's not as much of a

336
00:13:26,079 --> 00:13:28,880
burden so the prices can be lower and

337
00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:30,560
we'll get into how we've done that. Can

338
00:13:30,560 --> 00:13:34,000
you can you briefly u make a list of um

339
00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:37,920
thing I don't know that might be I I

340
00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:40,079
have a longer list. It's it's it's not a

341
00:13:40,079 --> 00:13:43,279
brief list. It's a it's a competency.

342
00:13:43,279 --> 00:13:44,560
>> Okay.

343
00:13:44,560 --> 00:13:51,279
Um, but if we were to do, let's say, a, you know, a 50% tip,

344
00:13:51,279 --> 00:13:53,279
uh, and we could, let's say,

345
00:13:53,279 --> 00:13:55,680
hypothetically, we put $20 million, and

346
00:13:55,680 --> 00:13:59,120
that's for environmental work,

347
00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:01,600
which we think probably 8 to10 million

348
00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:03,040
after we get done spending all of our

349
00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:04,320
money is what's left on the

350
00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:06,160
environmental. And then $10 million

351
00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:07,440
would help go for some of the

352
00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:09,600
infrastructure pieces like water and

353
00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:11,920
sewer lines as well as certain roads,

354
00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:14,880
land things. And so that means that the

355
00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:17,279
city we would generate 2 and a half to

356
00:14:17,279 --> 00:14:21,279
$3 million uh in annual tax revenue for

357
00:14:21,279 --> 00:14:23,839
the jurisdiction while putting two and a

358
00:14:23,839 --> 00:14:27,040
half to $3 million into the pot that

359
00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:28,480
will pay for some of these expenses. And

360
00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:30,800
so the city would still get a

361
00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:33,839
substantial tax increase while working

362
00:14:33,839 --> 00:14:35,920
to help pay off some of this this

363
00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:38,000
expenses because it is more expensive

364
00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:40,160
develop a contaminated piece of property

365
00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:43,839
that has no infrastructure. So, just to

366
00:14:43,839 --> 00:14:46,399
be clear, if for example, the developer

367
00:14:46,399 --> 00:14:48,880
identified a $5 million environmental

368
00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:50,480
problem,

369
00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:53,199
the city could put in, I think based on

370
00:14:53,199 --> 00:14:57,680
what you said, 50% or 2.5 million and

371
00:14:57,680 --> 00:14:59,760
the developer would cover the other 2.5

372
00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:00,639
million.

373
00:15:00,639 --> 00:15:02,399
>> We're going to get that.

374
00:15:02,399 --> 00:15:03,360
>> We're going to get into kind of how a

375
00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:05,600
tip plan works in in like two slides, I

376
00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:08,079
think. So, give me give me a little bit

377
00:15:08,079 --> 00:15:11,760
of time. Look.

378
00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:14,000
Okay, so here's a list of what you can

379
00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:15,600
pay. And so there's two different types

380
00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:18,000
of tip expenses. And I'm going to kind

381
00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:19,760
of read them quickly, but once again,

382
00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:21,600
you're going to have these slides, so

383
00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:25,600
you can s there are um

384
00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:27,839
uh brownfield eligible expenses for

385
00:15:27,839 --> 00:15:29,040
environmental and then non-

386
00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:30,000
environmental. These are the

387
00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:32,720
environmental. So there's what phase two

388
00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:34,240
basically environmental sensitive. This

389
00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:35,839
is just kind of assessing the property

390
00:15:35,839 --> 00:15:38,560
contaminated soil excavation. That's the

391
00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:41,519
big one. um brownwater assessments,

392
00:15:41,519 --> 00:15:44,800
vapor intrusion, uh exposure barriers

393
00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:46,399
and control due to care activities,

394
00:15:46,399 --> 00:15:48,399
ongoing monitoring, environmental

395
00:15:48,399 --> 00:15:50,240
investigations, asbestous surveys,

396
00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:52,639
lettuce surveys, mold surveys, hazard

397
00:15:52,639 --> 00:15:55,120
material surveys, and pre-demolition

398
00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:56,959
environmental assessments. So, these are

399
00:15:56,959 --> 00:16:01,759
the brownfield uh environmental eligible

400
00:16:01,759 --> 00:16:07,509
expenses. Okay.

401
00:16:07,519 --> 00:16:10,000
Now, these are the non-environmental

402
00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:12,000
that at the city being what's called a

403
00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:14,720
core community, we can use. Now, cities

404
00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:19,839
like Dexter and Seline and and most uh

405
00:16:19,839 --> 00:16:21,440
more more affluent communities cannot

406
00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:24,399
use non-environmental tiff. We are

407
00:16:24,399 --> 00:16:26,160
allowed to. And so, it's something that

408
00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:27,600
we can offer to help incentivize

409
00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:29,600
developer come in. We have demolition,

410
00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:31,040
site grading, water and sewer line

411
00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:32,240
extension of replacement, road

412
00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:34,000
construction, store bar management,

413
00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:35,839
electrical service infrastructure,

414
00:16:35,839 --> 00:16:38,639
sidewalks, parking areas, lbestus, uh

415
00:16:38,639 --> 00:16:41,600
physical removal, and then housing,

416
00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:44,000
which we used at Dorset. And so these

417
00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:45,600
are things that we can do to actually

418
00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:47,920
help incentivize bringing down the cost

419
00:16:47,920 --> 00:16:49,600
of housing in certain areas. We're going

420
00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:51,199
to get into some of the costs in a

421
00:16:51,199 --> 00:16:53,360
minute. But so these are the main this

422
00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:55,360
is why I didn't want to talk about it

423
00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:57,600
because these this this is the the only

424
00:16:57,600 --> 00:17:00,399
things you can use. Well, so you can't

425
00:17:00,399 --> 00:17:05,360
use brownfield tiff to let's say build a

426
00:17:05,360 --> 00:17:08,160
playground. Not something you can do.

427
00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:09,919
But you can do it to actually help with

428
00:17:09,919 --> 00:17:13,839
you know sink water sewer line clean up.

429
00:17:13,839 --> 00:17:15,439
>> But then there's sidewalks and streets

430
00:17:15,439 --> 00:17:16,720
you think. So you're even though there's

431
00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:18,079
not a playground,

432
00:17:18,079 --> 00:17:19,439
>> you could do sidewalks and street

433
00:17:19,439 --> 00:17:20,559
skating, but you cannot build a

434
00:17:20,559 --> 00:17:22,799
playground with tiff. And so this is

435
00:17:22,799 --> 00:17:25,760
where balancing if somebody is

436
00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:27,760
requesting tiff,

437
00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:30,000
they can only pay for tiff eligible

438
00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:33,039
expenses that have to be approved by the

439
00:17:33,039 --> 00:17:34,559
county brownfield redevelopment

440
00:17:34,559 --> 00:17:37,679
authority. Uh which two members of that

441
00:17:37,679 --> 00:17:40,960
were here tonight. So um so there's very

442
00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:43,520
specific things and so there's a a huge

443
00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:46,480
agreement. It has to go before the city.

444
00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:49,360
Has to go before the county brownfield

445
00:17:49,360 --> 00:17:51,600
authority. Has to go before the county

446
00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:54,799
board. And then it has to go before

447
00:17:54,799 --> 00:17:57,919
the state agency depending on what it

448
00:17:57,919 --> 00:17:59,679
is. So if it's environmental, it goes to

449
00:17:59,679 --> 00:18:03,520
the Eagle. If it is if it is uh

450
00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:05,360
non-environmental

451
00:18:05,360 --> 00:18:07,360
or anything else but housing, it goes to

452
00:18:07,360 --> 00:18:10,320
the MDC. And if it's if it's non-

453
00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:13,120
environmental housing, it goes to

454
00:18:13,120 --> 00:18:15,760
mission. And so all of those agencies

455
00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:17,679
have to approve. So it does take a

456
00:18:17,679 --> 00:18:20,080
pretty lengthy time. And so that's where

457
00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:22,160
talking to Katie um and kind of figuring

458
00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:24,559
out it is good to understand what the

459
00:18:24,559 --> 00:18:26,559
committee here would like to actually be

460
00:18:26,559 --> 00:18:29,120
able to negotiate with ahead of time

461
00:18:29,120 --> 00:18:30,720
because it's good to know if this is

462
00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:32,160
going to be allowed, what it is. Now,

463
00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:34,400
you can also pick and choose which ones

464
00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:36,080
you're not willing to negotiate. So, if

465
00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:38,880
you decide, let's say sidewalks and

466
00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:40,559
streetscaping is not something you're

467
00:18:40,559 --> 00:18:42,799
interested in helping fund, you can say

468
00:18:42,799 --> 00:18:45,600
we're not that's not something.

469
00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:50,160
Um, typically what we see um in in the

470
00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:51,679
city and what we we've been proven past

471
00:18:51,679 --> 00:18:54,080
is certain demolition, some clearing,

472
00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:55,919
water and sewer line replacement is is a

473
00:18:55,919 --> 00:18:57,919
big one, some road construction and

474
00:18:57,919 --> 00:19:00,559
storm water services. um electrical

475
00:19:00,559 --> 00:19:02,559
services not as much that we've done but

476
00:19:02,559 --> 00:19:03,600
it is something that's important

477
00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:04,799
especially on water street because right

478
00:19:04,799 --> 00:19:06,240
now we have a transmission line running

479
00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:08,559
through it and DTE is going to require

480
00:19:08,559 --> 00:19:11,440
that transmission line to be buried and

481
00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:15,520
that cost is a million dollars. Now the

482
00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:17,600
that's that's something where the

483
00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:19,440
developer is going to have to do that

484
00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:21,760
but that will add a million dollars to

485
00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:24,799
any proforma that has to be filled u

486
00:19:24,799 --> 00:19:25,679
make that happen

487
00:19:25,679 --> 00:19:27,919
>> and the you who gets to decide this is

488
00:19:27,919 --> 00:19:30,160
city council correct

489
00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:33,200
>> well I believe that it's going to city

490
00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:35,039
council will take a recommendation from

491
00:19:35,039 --> 00:19:37,919
this board so yes city council is the

492
00:19:37,919 --> 00:19:39,120
one that ultimately approves it but this

493
00:19:39,120 --> 00:19:41,679
board would be the one to approve it is

494
00:19:41,679 --> 00:19:44,080
that correct or will there CBL

495
00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:45,679
committee.

496
00:19:45,679 --> 00:19:46,160
>> This

497
00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:47,760
>> it'll be this committee. This is this

498
00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:49,120
committee.

499
00:19:49,120 --> 00:19:51,600
>> Yeah. Yes.

500
00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:53,200
>> Um

501
00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:55,679
gosh, how to word my question? Um okay.

502
00:19:55,679 --> 00:20:01,679
So like sidewalks and streetscaping is like pennies on a project compared to

503
00:20:01,679 --> 00:20:06,480
a lot of the brownfield stuff. as as a

504
00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:09,840
um as a board, could we

505
00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:13,280
allocate the TIFF financing to the more

506
00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:16,000
expensive stuff and then the things like

507
00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:20,000
sidewalks and streetscaping? Could we

508
00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:24,080
essentially require that through

509
00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:27,280
our our value statements and and like

510
00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:30,080
what we want to be in the project?

511
00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:32,559
>> Yeah. So you can pick anything on here

512
00:20:32,559 --> 00:20:34,000
that you don't want to negotiate with.

513
00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:36,400
You can keep anything else in here. The

514
00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:38,480
reason that

515
00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:40,400
it's it's it's always a good tool to

516
00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:44,240
have is uh Dorsy Estates is a is kind of

517
00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:46,000
the easiest example because most people

518
00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:49,440
who here has been to Dorsy Estates,

519
00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:53,360
right? Um each one of those houses cost

520
00:20:53,360 --> 00:20:56,400
$310,000 to build all of it. We sold

521
00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:59,039
them at maximum 235. I think it's the

522
00:20:59,039 --> 00:21:02,240
highest sale price just to get the house

523
00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:06,559
ready to be built. That was $110,000.

524
00:21:06,559 --> 00:21:08,240
So that's not putting any house that's

525
00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:10,960
like to put in the infrastructure, storm

526
00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:12,960
water pit, the roads, the sidewalks, all

527
00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:14,799
of those things. So it was $110,000 just

528
00:21:14,799 --> 00:21:18,559
for the path. Okay. And so the reason

529
00:21:18,559 --> 00:21:20,720
that you want to kind of it's a way to

530
00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:22,880
help bring down the cost of the

531
00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:25,760
development is to offer these types of

532
00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:28,159
if this committee chooses.

533
00:21:28,159 --> 00:21:31,760
Um, I do think the brownfield piece is

534
00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:36,159
much more important, but the brownfield

535
00:21:36,159 --> 00:21:38,080
piece is something that developing on a

536
00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:39,679
green field is something that you you're

537
00:21:39,679 --> 00:21:42,320
never going to have to deal with. And so

538
00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:44,640
this is where we can offer maybe a

539
00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:46,240
little bit of a bonus to a developer to

540
00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:48,400
come in and do the right type of

541
00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:49,919
development

542
00:21:49,919 --> 00:21:54,080
uh by allowing some of these incentives

543
00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:57,919
allowed. But once again, I the sidewalks

544
00:21:57,919 --> 00:21:59,840
are typically part of a development, but

545
00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:03,200
once again, every little bit adds to the

546
00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:08,870
cost. Thankfully,

547
00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:11,600
right?

548
00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:13,840
Um so

549
00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:15,600
what does the 50% incentive mean in

550
00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:18,320
practice? It means that after the TI

551
00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:21,120
expires, um 100% of the tax revenue goes

552
00:22:21,120 --> 00:22:24,000
to the taxing jurisdiction. Um, so it

553
00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:25,919
allows for a temporary reinvestment of

554
00:22:25,919 --> 00:22:27,840
new tax revenue. It's not a tax

555
00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:30,640
abatement. It's basically developer and

556
00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:32,000
the the property owners will have to pay

557
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:34,960
the taxes. Part of it goes into a fund

558
00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:36,640
and then it actually can reimburse for

559
00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:39,679
certain expenses. Um, without a

560
00:22:39,679 --> 00:22:41,120
redevelopment on the site, the city's

561
00:22:41,120 --> 00:22:43,200
not going to have any taxes. And so this

562
00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:45,840
is a way to not hamstring the future

563
00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:49,200
generations while generating taxes now.

564
00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:51,360
Um and that also allows us to have a

565
00:22:51,360 --> 00:22:55,520
cleaned up area and expand the tax uh

566
00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:57,919
the the the tax revenues permanently.

567
00:22:57,919 --> 00:22:58,799
Yes.

568
00:22:58,799 --> 00:23:01,440
>> Question. Um so can you talk about

569
00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:03,280
unless this is coming up because it

570
00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:06,960
could be around um parameters for length

571
00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:08,960
of time for the tips like how long and

572
00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:10,720
how short do they are there mandates on

573
00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:11,200
that?

574
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:12,880
>> I actually I'm not going to get into

575
00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:14,640
that. So the maximum you can go for a

576
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:17,760
tiff is 30 years.

577
00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:22,320
um looking at kind of a $20 million

578
00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:25,200
bucket. Um

579
00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:28,320
it's next slide. Um and this is a really

580
00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:31,280
boring slide, but um it's looking like

581
00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:33,919
the city could pay back if we offered

582
00:23:33,919 --> 00:23:35,840
interest. So we could also allow for

583
00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:40,080
interest uh to be paid in these things.

584
00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:43,520
It would be an 11-year payback. So what

585
00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:45,840
that means is the city would collect

586
00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:48,720
half of the revenue for 11 years and

587
00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:51,360
then after 11 years the city would

588
00:23:51,360 --> 00:23:54,159
collect all of the revenue. But the

589
00:23:54,159 --> 00:23:57,360
reason why it's important is 40 30 to

590
00:23:57,360 --> 00:24:00,400
40% of the city's tax tax collection

591
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:02,640
actually goes to the city. And so this

592
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:05,360
would allow us to utilize

593
00:24:05,360 --> 00:24:07,120
um even some school millage which is

594
00:24:07,120 --> 00:24:09,600
fully reimbursed to the school district.

595
00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:13,360
So the school district isn't out for uh

596
00:24:13,360 --> 00:24:15,440
for Brownfield. Uh but this would allow

597
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:18,400
us to collect other villages to help pay

598
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:22,080
for these expenses. And so the city

599
00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:25,279
would essentially get substantial

600
00:24:25,279 --> 00:24:28,880
revenue and utilize other passing

601
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:30,720
jurisdictions to collect additional

602
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:33,600
revenue to pay for these expenses.

603
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:36,960
So the amount of time that you may

604
00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:39,679
negotiate for a tiff would be based on

605
00:24:39,679 --> 00:24:41,440
the amount of need

606
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:42,960
>> of need for the client.

607
00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:44,320
>> Yes.

608
00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:45,679
>> I I think that's important because I

609
00:24:45,679 --> 00:24:47,039
didn't always understand that.

610
00:24:47,039 --> 00:24:47,600
>> Yeah.

611
00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:49,760
>> No. And and you know there a smaller

612
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:51,200
project and this is where sometimes

613
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:53,440
cutting up into smaller projects smaller

614
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:56,640
projects have greater needs. So, you

615
00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:58,960
know, with Dorsy estates, it's actually

616
00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:02,159
like 90% of the millage for for 15

617
00:25:02,159 --> 00:25:04,480
years. And that was to make to because

618
00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:06,720
we we substantially reduce the prices of

619
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:10,559
those houses uh through this. And so, uh

620
00:25:10,559 --> 00:25:12,720
but this is just showing you how kind of

621
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:15,440
a a tiff plan works. I know that Alice

622
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:17,279
and Katie are very familiar with this

623
00:25:17,279 --> 00:25:18,799
and probably knows it, but essentially

624
00:25:18,799 --> 00:25:21,039
talks about, you know, escalations and

625
00:25:21,039 --> 00:25:22,799
the taxable value and where it would

626
00:25:22,799 --> 00:25:25,679
come to and then, you know, how how

627
00:25:25,679 --> 00:25:27,039
interest is done. So, you'll have a

628
00:25:27,039 --> 00:25:29,919
you'll be able to look at this. Uh but

629
00:25:29,919 --> 00:25:32,960
essentially after 11 years if the

630
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:36,080
development is at $150 million the

631
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:40,159
revenue that uh would would be received

632
00:25:40,159 --> 00:25:44,159
by the city uh would be

633
00:25:44,159 --> 00:25:50,149
um

634
00:25:50,159 --> 00:25:53,520
$63 million

635
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:58,710
>> in total.

636
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:00,880
Yeah.

637
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:02,720
>> But so we were going to the city 63

638
00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:04,400
could go to actually pay for for these

639
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:06,400
expenses.

640
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:08,240
>> Yes. No.

641
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:11,279
>> What's the length of the uh longest t

642
00:26:11,279 --> 00:26:13,360
currently in effect

643
00:26:13,360 --> 00:26:15,679
>> for the city? 30 years.

644
00:26:15,679 --> 00:26:25,110
>> And that's for what project.

645
00:26:25,120 --> 00:26:26,880
So, oh,

646
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:28,960
>> no, no, I you.

647
00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:31,520
>> Okay. So, so even though I'm on I I'm on

648
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:33,039
the Brownfield board, I'm very familiar

649
00:26:33,039 --> 00:26:36,159
with TIFFs. The opening up of the TIFF

650
00:26:36,159 --> 00:26:38,080
world to affordable housing is

651
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:39,279
relatively new.

652
00:26:39,279 --> 00:26:39,840
>> Yes.

653
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:42,720
>> And and so I maybe I should know this,

654
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:44,960
but Katie can attest we're all

655
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:47,039
struggling to be on board be affordable

656
00:26:47,039 --> 00:26:48,480
housing experts now, too, which is

657
00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:52,159
really hard. Um, but I'm wondering if we

658
00:26:52,159 --> 00:26:56,080
don't utilize TIP, are there like what

659
00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:58,240
is another strategy? Because TIF is

660
00:26:58,240 --> 00:26:59,760
really powerful to get affordable

661
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:02,240
housing in. TIFF is a very powerful tool

662
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:05,039
to get really like like quality

663
00:27:05,039 --> 00:27:08,480
affordable housing in, right? And so if

664
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:09,679
and we've talked a lot about

665
00:27:09,679 --> 00:27:12,480
affordability. So if for some reason

666
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:14,960
like tiff wasn't on the table here like

667
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:16,480
are there what other viable strategies

668
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:19,039
are there for affordable housing in this

669
00:27:19,039 --> 00:27:21,039
community because I have to think the

670
00:27:21,039 --> 00:27:24,000
federal money is not flowing anymore or

671
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:26,559
whatever you know like can you can you

672
00:27:26,559 --> 00:27:28,080
Yeah. Thank you. Look, the only other

673
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:30,320
way truly to get affordable housing, the

674
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:32,640
state has a couple small programs, but

675
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:35,440
for the most part, it is a it's called a

676
00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:36,880
low-inccome housing tax credit, which is

677
00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:39,200
a federal program, but that has to be

678
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:41,279
paired with a pilot, which is a payment

679
00:27:41,279 --> 00:27:42,320
in le of tax.

680
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:42,799
>> Oh, okay.

681
00:27:42,799 --> 00:27:44,640
>> And so what a payment in l of tax is is

682
00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:47,520
there's a an amount of taxes that is uh

683
00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:50,960
based on the shelter rents that are

684
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:54,240
paid. So it's rents minus expenses. This

685
00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:56,399
is what a shelter rent is. And then it's

686
00:27:56,399 --> 00:27:57,760
a percentage of that. And so in the

687
00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:01,279
city, our pilots's going from 1% to 10%.

688
00:28:01,279 --> 00:28:04,159
And so those bring in anywhere from

689
00:28:04,159 --> 00:28:08,240
50,000 to $100,000. But the way a pilot

690
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:10,480
is is constructed is basically it takes

691
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:12,799
that amount and it divies it up based on

692
00:28:12,799 --> 00:28:15,520
the tax collection. So the county gets a

693
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:18,320
tiny bit, the uh the state gets a little

694
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:20,240
bit. So it's kind of broken out based on

695
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:22,240
the rents to all those people. And so

696
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:25,440
the city receives very little money. Now

697
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:28,000
what we have done to help offset that is

698
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:29,760
there also there are emergency services

699
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:31,760
agreements that can be negotiated based

700
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:34,880
on certain aspects to help pay for some

701
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:37,039
of the services that are being provided.

702
00:28:37,039 --> 00:28:40,159
Um but pilots are are really uh that's

703
00:28:40,159 --> 00:28:42,720
more of a a

704
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:44,320
hammer to the system because it

705
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:46,000
basically says the city doesn't collect

706
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:49,440
any revenue for the most part. Um, and

707
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:51,600
so that's where TIFF, if you do it

708
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:53,440
right, there's a way to actually use it

709
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:56,000
so the city collects a good amount of

710
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:59,440
revenue while subsidizing housing. And

711
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:03,840
so, uh, we do have the most pilots per

712
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:07,440
capita um, of in the in the in the

713
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:08,240
county.

714
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:11,200
>> We have a lot. No, I don't

715
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:14,000
to give you all a little bit of example.

716
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:19,120
>> The city of Ann Arbor has um about 200

717
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:21,440
more de restricted affordable housing

718
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:26,230
units than the city of Miami.

719
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:29,840
» And so we have about I think 1,400.

720
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:32,799
I think actually I have that. Uh so we

721
00:29:32,799 --> 00:29:35,600
won't get to that. I can pull up. But I

722
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:37,679
know this is a very very and this is

723
00:29:37,679 --> 00:29:39,840
also it's really hard to actually

724
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:41,600
understand because this is also we're

725
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:44,240
assuming that the the taxable value

726
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:46,159
escalation will be 2% a year, some just

727
00:29:46,159 --> 00:29:48,640
more, some years less. There's so many

728
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:50,000
assumptions and that's why talking about

729
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:52,559
taxable value is really hard because it

730
00:29:52,559 --> 00:29:54,159
really depends on what's on the ground

731
00:29:54,159 --> 00:29:57,919
at that moment and and it's all of the

732
00:29:57,919 --> 00:29:59,279
numbers I'm telling you are completely

733
00:29:59,279 --> 00:30:02,320
fictitious because we have no idea what

734
00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:04,000
it's actually going to come out to with

735
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:07,919
its time place and a two-year window.

736
00:30:07,919 --> 00:30:11,840
Yeah. Dope to ask for more fictitious

737
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:14,799
numbers. Um,

738
00:30:14,799 --> 00:30:20,960
if a tiff is applied to a residence

739
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:22,799
and I'm

740
00:30:22,799 --> 00:30:24,320
while you've talked a bit about Dorsy

741
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:25,440
statements, I don't think that's a good

742
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:26,880
example because they have other kind of

743
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:29,440
limitations on the way they're handled

744
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:32,640
and sold and so on. Assuming that we're

745
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:34,720
trying to get to a what I'm going to

746
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:37,840
call a normal for the sake of discussion

747
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:39,360
single family residence owned by

748
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:42,880
somebody, the tiff is used to get us to

749
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:46,000
get an affordable piece of architecture

750
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:48,799
out there and someone uses it. Is there

751
00:30:48,799 --> 00:30:52,799
some point in time when the tiff expires

752
00:30:52,799 --> 00:30:55,200
where all of a sudden the taxes change

753
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:57,679
dramatically? this sort of hammer comes

754
00:30:57,679 --> 00:31:00,480
down and the owner is all you know it

755
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:02,480
I'm wondering does it become a hot

756
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:06,320
potato from a tax point of view that it

757
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:08,880
that all of a sudden it jumps in value

758
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:11,279
because it's somehow

759
00:31:11,279 --> 00:31:13,600
>> maybe a bad comparison but like uncapped

760
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:14,799
by the headley

761
00:31:14,799 --> 00:31:17,360
>> and all of a sudden you have a big bill

762
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:20,159
>> to that is no because with with tiff

763
00:31:20,159 --> 00:31:22,880
your tax bill there isn't a reduction in

764
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:25,039
the tax bill

765
00:31:25,039 --> 00:31:26,880
you pay your taxes

766
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:29,679
a portion of it goes to the brownfield

767
00:31:29,679 --> 00:31:32,000
fund that you can request a

768
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:34,640
reimbursement to pay for very specific

769
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:38,470
health expenses.

770
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:40,880
So you're paying the tax bill as it

771
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:42,960
stands

772
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:44,000
and and so

773
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:47,600
>> reducing other cost of living or 5%

774
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:50,000
whatever's greater or whatever's less.

775
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:54,000
Oh, every year that's based on um prop

776
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:56,799
A. And so the tax bill you pay doesn't

777
00:31:56,799 --> 00:32:00,320
go up more than a typical tax bill. it

778
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:04,080
just part of that money and a 50% tiff

779
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:05,760
would

780
00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:08,000
go into a fund that could be reimbursed

781
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:10,559
to pay for very specific. So when you

782
00:32:10,559 --> 00:32:12,320
have a big development like would happen

783
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:16,480
here, you end up um

784
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:20,960
you end up having bills that that pile

785
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:22,559
up because all the bills are kind of

786
00:32:22,559 --> 00:32:24,240
spent at the front end and then they're

787
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:25,840
kind of waiting there. And so as the

788
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:28,559
taxes come in, then you can request

789
00:32:28,559 --> 00:32:31,039
reimbursement based on what is collected

790
00:32:31,039 --> 00:32:33,360
from the taxes. And so there are a few

791
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:36,480
tax programs where there is a jump. And the big one on that is that

792
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:38,159
neighborhood enterprise zone where after

793
00:32:38,159 --> 00:32:40,480
15 years, you go from paying very little

794
00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:43,840
taxes to a huge amount of taxes. With a

795
00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:46,000
tiff, you're paying roughly the same

796
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:47,600
amount of taxes the entire time.

797
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:50,880
>> Doesn't matter who owns it, sales, those

798
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:52,480
sorts of things. It'll don't become

799
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:55,200
uncapped. So if you sell the property

800
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:57,519
and if it comes out capped, there will

801
00:32:57,519 --> 00:33:00,720
be that spike as as happens in in the

802
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:01,679
city which then

803
00:33:01,679 --> 00:33:03,600
>> also for any purchase. It's the same on

804
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:04,000
capping.

805
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:04,960
>> It's the same on capping.

806
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:06,880
>> There's not an extra penalty because it

807
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:08,640
went from tiff to non-tiff or something

808
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:09,840
along those lines.

809
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:10,240
>> No,

810
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:11,519
>> that's what I'm trying to understand.

811
00:33:11,519 --> 00:33:14,320
>> Yes, there's no additional

812
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:15,519
>> Okay. Okay.

813
00:33:15,519 --> 00:33:17,519
>> The tiff deals with the revenues from

814
00:33:17,519 --> 00:33:19,440
the taxes, not the value of the

815
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:22,880
property. I Yeah, I just want to make sure there's

816
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:24,720
no hidden something.

817
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:27,600
>> Yeah, valid questions.

818
00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:29,840
>> Okay, so now there's a lot of things to

819
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:31,519
understand and I know I've kind of given

820
00:33:31,519 --> 00:33:34,960
you a very meaty presentation and it's

821
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:37,919
going to get more meaty and I'm sorry.

822
00:33:37,919 --> 00:33:40,320
Um, one thing that we get a lot is,

823
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:41,840
well, just build more density because if

824
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:43,440
you put more units in, you can make more

825
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:45,360
money, right? Like that's that's

826
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:46,720
something that I always thought until I'

827
00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:48,480
I've learned a little bit more about it.

828
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:51,279
But construction costre increase with

829
00:33:51,279 --> 00:33:53,360
building height. Okay, they just do

830
00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:55,600
because certain things after about you

831
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:58,640
know seven stories you have to go to

832
00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:00,000
steel construction. There's certain

833
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:02,880
things you can do. You do some you know

834
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:05,440
we'll get into that. Um but

835
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:08,000
realistically cost increase with the

836
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:09,919
height. Um so that's why you don't see a

837
00:34:09,919 --> 00:34:12,320
whole lot of 10-story buildings unless

838
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:13,919
they're 20tory buildings. Like in Ann

839
00:34:13,919 --> 00:34:15,280
Arbor you don't see a lot of 10tory

840
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:16,480
buildings being built.

841
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:18,800
20 because the cost of both a 10 story

842
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:21,040
or a 20 story the cost already kind of

843
00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:22,159
sunk in because you're going to need the

844
00:34:22,159 --> 00:34:23,919
same types of elevators and the same

845
00:34:23,919 --> 00:34:27,520
types of steel. Um the estimate uh don't

846
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:31,919
include the remediation costs um

847
00:34:31,919 --> 00:34:33,679
well once again they can be built into

848
00:34:33,679 --> 00:34:35,919
that. Uh the residential development

849
00:34:35,919 --> 00:34:38,159
requirements are the strictest

850
00:34:38,159 --> 00:34:40,159
environmental standards. So there are

851
00:34:40,159 --> 00:34:41,359
certain parts of watershed that we're

852
00:34:41,359 --> 00:34:43,520
never going to clean up to single family

853
00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:46,399
residential standards. Okay. But almost

854
00:34:46,399 --> 00:34:48,320
any development happening in Ann Arbor

855
00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:49,919
are not built to single family

856
00:34:49,919 --> 00:34:51,119
residential standards because that's

857
00:34:51,119 --> 00:34:52,480
where you have gardens and things like

858
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:57,200
that. Um infrastructure costs um are not

859
00:34:57,200 --> 00:34:58,800
included in the cost of development and

860
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:04,079
then affordable housing on pilot. Um but

861
00:35:04,079 --> 00:35:07,599
here is kind of the how to think about

862
00:35:07,599 --> 00:35:10,560
it. And so threetory building, you see a

863
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:12,160
lot of those in in smaller communities

864
00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:15,920
because it's wood frame. Um and those on

865
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:18,880
average cost 220 to 320 and those

866
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:20,240
numbers are a little bit low. They are

867
00:35:20,240 --> 00:35:22,640
going a little bit uh a little bit more.

868
00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:24,160
Um

869
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:31,920
seven stories you can do some wood over steel but about 330 to 600 uh a

870
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:35,040
square foot and then you know over over

871
00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:38,160
about 10 feet 10 stories you have $430

872
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:40,640
to $1,000 per square foot. And we're

873
00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:42,800
going to get into what the costs mean of

874
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:44,000
that.

875
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:47,359
Oh, but this is where, as you can see,

876
00:35:47,359 --> 00:35:49,520
the taller you build, more expensive per

877
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:51,680
square foot it is. Now, the state is

878
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:52,720
actually working to change some of

879
00:35:52,720 --> 00:35:54,320
things. I've heard that they either just

880
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:56,160
passed or about to pass a a double

881
00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:58,320
staircase requirement that actually will

882
00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:00,240
bring down a little bit, but when you

883
00:36:00,240 --> 00:36:01,920
get above seven stories, you have to

884
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:03,520
have a special freight elevator and

885
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:04,240
things like that. Yes,

886
00:36:04,240 --> 00:36:05,920
>> I just got rid of that.

887
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:08,320
>> I saw so this presentation was already

888
00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:09,839
created when that happened, but

889
00:36:09,839 --> 00:36:10,480
>> yeah,

890
00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:12,720
>> hat off the presence. So it's that

891
00:36:12,720 --> 00:36:15,520
square footage uh or footprint of the

892
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:18,880
building or per uh floor space for the

893
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:21,920
entire building.

894
00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:24,400
um

895
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:26,800
total per square footage is is that cost

896
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:30,400
and it's kind of average silver

897
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:32,720
but this is where once again you can see

898
00:36:32,720 --> 00:36:34,400
it's double the cost to go from a three

899
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:38,000
story to a 10 story at least right and

900
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:39,280
we have an architect here I don't think

901
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:40,720
my numbers might be a little low but

902
00:36:40,720 --> 00:36:41,839
they're not it's

903
00:36:41,839 --> 00:36:43,920
>> I don't necessarily do 10 buildings but

904
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:45,440
I think

905
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:48,640
>> it is more complex to build those those

906
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:52,880
buildings however What this group should

907
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:57,520
also understand is the impact on um city

908
00:36:57,520 --> 00:36:59,839
infrastructure is dramatically lower.

909
00:36:59,839 --> 00:37:01,599
You don't have to plow more. You don't

910
00:37:01,599 --> 00:37:03,680
have more sewer lines. You don't have

911
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:07,280
more of a lot of things. Um you know,

912
00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:09,280
police response times to a 10-story

913
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:11,200
building is the same as to a twotory

914
00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:14,160
building. All of those things are true.

915
00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:16,400
So, you know, the collective term that

916
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:18,960
we use is strong.

917
00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:21,359
you can have more people living in a

918
00:37:21,359 --> 00:37:23,520
smaller footprint and other city

919
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:27,040
services which are money over time. So

920
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:33,430
we're talking money are much less.

921
00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:36,240
So this is a does this help people to

922
00:37:36,240 --> 00:37:40,160
kind of understand a little bit? Um,

923
00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:43,599
okay. So, now this is where

924
00:37:43,599 --> 00:37:45,440
this isn't meant to shock or alarm

925
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:47,440
anyone, but this is just

926
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:50,960
>> this is just what it is. Okay.

927
00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:53,200
>> So,

928
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:58,560
>> uh, Thompson block uh is three floors

929
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:02,960
uh, 1250 12,500T per floor. So, 37

930
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:04,720
37,500

931
00:38:04,720 --> 00:38:10,160
foot. This cost a total of $12,187,500

932
00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:12,560
to renovate. Okay.

933
00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:14,640
>> Does that factor in the whole drama of

934
00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:15,599
that building?

935
00:38:15,599 --> 00:38:17,920
>> Uh it it factors in the most recent

936
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:19,200
developers iteration.

937
00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:20,720
>> Okay.

938
00:38:20,720 --> 00:38:24,160
>> Um to hit an 8% return, which is

939
00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:28,480
required by any bank. Uh a $325 per

940
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:30,960
square foot building. Uh that's how much

941
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:32,720
it would cost per square foot to build.

942
00:38:32,720 --> 00:38:34,400
And so this is kind of build a building

943
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:41,280
this size. You know, we would look at a rental unit about $6,000 a month,

944
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:43,119
right?

945
00:38:43,119 --> 00:38:45,280
Um our market rents in Ipsy are 14 to

946
00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:46,880
$1,900.

947
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:48,400
And so that's where we have to figure

948
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:52,320
out if we want housing in the city.

949
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:54,640
We're not we don't want houses to be

950
00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:57,680
built for $6,000. that there's a ton of

951
00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:00,480
Airbnbs at that too. So, it's not really

952
00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:03,200
affording anyone any housing.

953
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:05,760
>> It's also not a really great example of

954
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:07,680
how to build housing in that it was

955
00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:10,960
being built in a 1800s building that

956
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:13,040
part had all kinds of environmental

957
00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:14,560
issues and part of them were

958
00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:17,440
self-inflicted wounds over years. So,

959
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:19,119
it's not a great example for how to get

960
00:39:19,119 --> 00:39:21,520
to housing.

961
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:23,440
It's an example within the city, but

962
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:26,560
it's not how you do things.

963
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:30,960
Yes, 100%. U Centennial building, six

964
00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:34,400
floor building, 6400,000 square ft. The

965
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:37,200
cost to build this today would be almost

966
00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:40,880
$19 million. The rents on that, make

967
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:42,400
sure you get the rate of return, would

968
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:44,400
be

969
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:49,119
um almost triple what they are

970
00:39:49,119 --> 00:39:53,839
building. So um that's something where

971
00:39:53,839 --> 00:39:57,520
we there is a significant gap to try to

972
00:39:57,520 --> 00:40:02,720
get this happen. So um once again this

973
00:40:02,720 --> 00:40:05,280
is just the cost based on square

974
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:07,040
footage.

975
00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:09,280
So are these slides just to give

976
00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:10,960
everybody

977
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:13,200
a perspective of if we're going to go as

978
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:14,960
a committee that we push it for housing

979
00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:17,119
what that really look like? Joe, the

980
00:40:17,119 --> 00:40:18,560
intent of this is just to show this

981
00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:21,839
committee what it costs to build, right?

982
00:40:21,839 --> 00:40:24,320
Oh, I understand that, you know,

983
00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:26,160
everyone

984
00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:27,839
it's it's hard in my opinion, this is

985
00:40:27,839 --> 00:40:30,160
where I'm more of a visual learner and

986
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:31,920
so it's good to see, okay, for us to

987
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:34,240
build this building right now, it would

988
00:40:34,240 --> 00:40:36,640
be $19 million.

989
00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:39,760
We would have to triple the rent and

990
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:41,359
those rents are not actually that cheap

991
00:40:41,359 --> 00:40:42,480
because they're much small. They're

992
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:45,200
really small offices right now. Um, but

993
00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:48,320
it does cost a lot to build a building

994
00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:50,000
today, much more than it does to

995
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:51,599
actually rehab some of these buildings.

996
00:40:51,599 --> 00:40:54,000
So, um, that's kind of what I'm trying

997
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:55,920
to show is that if we want to keep our

998
00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:58,800
rents at roughly the same or maybe a

999
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:01,040
little bit higher, we have to figure out

1000
00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:03,680
a way to help fill that gap because

1001
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:06,160
right now

1002
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:08,880
we would have to triple the rents

1003
00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:11,119
essentially to get it to a point where

1004
00:41:11,119 --> 00:41:13,920
we would want. So like that basically a

1005
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:16,160
be counterproductive tool making

1006
00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:18,160
affordable housing.

1007
00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:19,599
>> There's a way to do affordable housing

1008
00:41:19,599 --> 00:41:21,760
with attainable housing with market rate

1009
00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:23,520
housing. There's a way to do all of

1010
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:25,599
that. But we have to figure out, are we

1011
00:41:25,599 --> 00:41:28,560
going to take a hit on the taxes side

1012
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:30,720
like we do with most pilots to get the

1013
00:41:30,720 --> 00:41:32,560
affordable housing or are we going to

1014
00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:34,720
try to get some more market rate housing

1015
00:41:34,720 --> 00:41:37,680
in order to help fill some of the city's

1016
00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:39,839
tax, you know, potentially bring down

1017
00:41:39,839 --> 00:41:43,119
our tax rates to help make housing a

1018
00:41:43,119 --> 00:41:44,400
little bit cheaper for everyone. And so

1019
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:46,000
there's no there's no there's no good

1020
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:47,280
solution. I don't have a solution. This

1021
00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:49,599
isn't a recommendation. system.

1022
00:41:49,599 --> 00:41:51,280
>> So when I think of developments that

1023
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:53,520
have worked that I've uh experienced

1024
00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:55,040
either like in New York there's

1025
00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:56,960
Roosevelt Island or in Portland there

1026
00:41:56,960 --> 00:41:58,800
was a Reno station and I don't know how

1027
00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:00,960
it was done but could there be a mixture

1028
00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:07,359
so that developers would uh bringing in

1029
00:42:07,359 --> 00:42:09,839
would have to work with pilot programs

1030
00:42:09,839 --> 00:42:13,440
as well also that way uh those pilot

1031
00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:15,280
programs aren't ghettoized you know but

1032
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:17,680
they're actually living within

1033
00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:19,680
all strata, you know, mixed in. So that

1034
00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:21,280
was it created a very peaceful

1035
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:23,839
environment because there was no nobody

1036
00:42:23,839 --> 00:42:26,640
without resources and nobody else uh

1037
00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:28,319
stigmatizing anyone else because

1038
00:42:28,319 --> 00:42:29,920
everybody you know millionaire right

1039
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:33,280
next to someone um that kind of thing.

1040
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:35,599
So if there's a way to combine them so

1041
00:42:35,599 --> 00:42:38,319
you have and in terms I think density is

1042
00:42:38,319 --> 00:42:40,240
important especially for impact on land

1043
00:42:40,240 --> 00:42:41,680
but also having different kinds of

1044
00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:43,839
housing is important.

1045
00:42:43,839 --> 00:42:46,640
>> There is a way to do it. The state of

1046
00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:48,800
Michigan struggles when it comes to

1047
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:50,960
affordable housing where they don't

1048
00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:53,680
typically like Dorsia Estates is one of

1049
00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:56,319
the first true integrated

1050
00:42:56,319 --> 00:42:59,040
multi-income developments. Typically

1051
00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:04,550
there's a pilot even at um

1052
00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:06,400
what is the place by where you work the

1053
00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:06,880
new

1054
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:08,319
>> Vidian.

1055
00:43:08,319 --> 00:43:09,040
>> Yeah,

1056
00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:12,000
>> there is a very specific Avalon housing

1057
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:14,160
part of that development. And then

1058
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:16,960
there's the Vidian group because the way

1059
00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:19,839
pilots lit texts work is the lite tech

1060
00:43:19,839 --> 00:43:21,440
is typically part of it. We would love

1061
00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:24,319
to see more integration as far as

1062
00:43:24,319 --> 00:43:25,839
partial

1063
00:43:25,839 --> 00:43:29,119
pilot in a building.

1064
00:43:29,119 --> 00:43:31,200
Well, we don't get to dictate to the

1065
00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:32,800
state how their incentives are working.

1066
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:36,240
I mean, we got the first uh Misha

1067
00:43:36,240 --> 00:43:39,200
funding for a brownfield program in the

1068
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:41,520
state in the city of Sandy and we had to

1069
00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:43,440
push hard and that was based on

1070
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:45,280
relationships. Misha had never once

1071
00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:49,119
funded a brownfield project in the state

1072
00:43:49,119 --> 00:43:52,640
and so it's working collaboratively and

1073
00:43:52,640 --> 00:43:55,359
with all of our partners uh to help push

1074
00:43:55,359 --> 00:43:57,680
some of these things. But I do not know

1075
00:43:57,680 --> 00:43:59,599
and I could be wrong and just this is

1076
00:43:59,599 --> 00:44:01,280
just my knowledge. I do not know of a

1077
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:05,200
mixed piloted project that has ever been

1078
00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:08,319
done in this in the state. We would love

1079
00:44:08,319 --> 00:44:12,790
to see it.

1080
00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:14,319
» Now, Ann Arbor has some things because

1081
00:44:14,319 --> 00:44:16,000
they actually have they build the

1082
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:18,079
density and so they just require as part

1083
00:44:18,079 --> 00:44:20,160
of this to have X number units be

1084
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:23,040
affordable. Once again, their rents are

1085
00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:26,160
$4,000. So, they can actually dictate

1086
00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:27,839
more than what our rents are because we

1087
00:44:27,839 --> 00:44:33,990
don't want our rents

1088
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:34,400
Yes.

1089
00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:37,280
>> Is it even feasible to have $4,000 rent

1090
00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:38,640
here?

1091
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:40,319
>> I hope not.

1092
00:44:40,319 --> 00:44:42,880
>> No. No. But I mean, no. From a practical

1093
00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:45,520
standpoint, would a would anyone move

1094
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:47,839
here and pay $4,000 a month?

1095
00:44:47,839 --> 00:44:50,720
>> I mean, there are people who list their

1096
00:44:50,720 --> 00:44:53,680
houses for $5,000 a month. Um, I don't

1097
00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:55,920
think they did that, but there are

1098
00:44:55,920 --> 00:44:59,359
people who try. Um,

1099
00:44:59,359 --> 00:45:02,240
I don't think so. But as housing becomes

1100
00:45:02,240 --> 00:45:04,240
more and more scarce

1101
00:45:04,240 --> 00:45:06,400
and more and more expensive to build,

1102
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:08,319
like materials are not becoming any

1103
00:45:08,319 --> 00:45:10,560
cheaper.

1104
00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:12,560
So, we keep putting more tariffs on

1105
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:15,839
them. So, it's challenging.

1106
00:45:15,839 --> 00:45:18,319
I I wanted to echo that to you too, but

1107
00:45:18,319 --> 00:45:20,319
basically what Diana was saying to a lot

1108
00:45:20,319 --> 00:45:23,359
of people that not developers they still

1109
00:45:23,359 --> 00:45:25,200
like they still buy those properties

1110
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:27,920
that they Airbnb it out. So they not

1111
00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:29,599
necessarily having somebody longterm

1112
00:45:29,599 --> 00:45:32,240
there but you know with the times that

1113
00:45:32,240 --> 00:45:33,520
could be something to think about.

1114
00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:35,359
>> So there are ways and we have we stopped

1115
00:45:35,359 --> 00:45:37,520
the ability to do that in Dorsy estates.

1116
00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:39,680
So Dorsy estates you can you have to be

1117
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:42,079
homeowner occupied. So there are ways we

1118
00:45:42,079 --> 00:45:45,280
can do that. However,

1119
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:46,880
um

1120
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:49,520
that is a give that you have to give up

1121
00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:51,119
and so you have to there is give and

1122
00:45:51,119 --> 00:45:52,960
take there and that's where being able

1123
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:55,040
to negotiate.

1124
00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:56,319
There should be a difference between

1125
00:45:56,319 --> 00:45:58,480
like short-term rentals and, you know,

1126
00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:00,560
having mixed family, you know, people

1127
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:03,359
being able to live in chosen families

1128
00:46:03,359 --> 00:46:06,079
and and not that I would want them there

1129
00:46:06,079 --> 00:46:09,920
more either, but um

1130
00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:13,040
I miss the last maintenance is is has

1131
00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:15,680
the consensus been that this is

1132
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:21,349
development is going to be housing?

1133
00:46:21,359 --> 00:46:23,280
» You be the

1134
00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:25,119
Nothing's

1135
00:46:25,119 --> 00:46:30,870
been

1136
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:32,240
» I just want to take a temperature check

1137
00:46:32,240 --> 00:46:34,000
because we're at about 8:10 and I know

1138
00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:35,440
we have a lot of thing things on the

1139
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:36,960
agenda. We have a we have a lot of

1140
00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:38,800
questions and this is important stuff.

1141
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:40,640
So

1142
00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:43,200
>> okay I'll

1143
00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:49,680
So then the ne the next fun problem is the tax planning which I think

1144
00:46:49,680 --> 00:46:51,920
everyone's heard of. Uh but I quote up

1145
00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:53,920
the hard numbers. Okay, if you haven't

1146
00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:55,520
heard of the tax exempt land problem in

1147
00:46:55,520 --> 00:46:57,839
the city city is is 4 and a half square

1148
00:46:57,839 --> 00:46:58,720
miles.

1149
00:46:58,720 --> 00:47:00,319
>> Here we go.

1150
00:47:00,319 --> 00:47:02,720
>> Um, and this is uh this is where we're

1151
00:47:02,720 --> 00:47:05,040
at. About 45% of our land is actually

1152
00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:06,960
tax.

1153
00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:09,520
So that means that 55% of land is not

1154
00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:12,640
where does that land go? 26% is eastern.

1155
00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:15,599
11% is right of way roads, sidewalks,

1156
00:47:15,599 --> 00:47:18,800
things like that. Uh 63

1157
00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:22,079
163 acres city owned, 134 is school and

1158
00:47:22,079 --> 00:47:25,920
uh county owned. 82 is church owned. Uh

1159
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:27,920
73% is deed restricted affordable

1160
00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:29,760
housing, which means we're not clutching

1161
00:47:29,760 --> 00:47:33,119
really for any real taxable value. And

1162
00:47:33,119 --> 00:47:35,200
then 33 acres is nonprofit. And so that

1163
00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:37,200
kind of is that is the whole pie of

1164
00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:40,160
where our city's uh land is, which makes

1165
00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:42,160
it a fl because we have very little land

1166
00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:44,960
that actually is taxable in the city. uh

1167
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:48,000
which creates many many challenges. Now

1168
00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:51,440
to dig even deeper into this. So for

1169
00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:54,000
each of the land uh in the city's tax

1170
00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:57,119
exempt um meaning less than the half the

1171
00:47:57,119 --> 00:47:59,599
city generates tax revenue. Went through

1172
00:47:59,599 --> 00:48:03,280
that uh way we have our develop the land

1173
00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:05,520
is scarce and every parcel matters and

1174
00:48:05,520 --> 00:48:07,760
decisions of how we do that should be

1175
00:48:07,760 --> 00:48:10,240
great obviously.

1176
00:48:10,240 --> 00:48:13,440
Um now not all city land is developed

1177
00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:17,280
right. Uh so out of the 63.3 acres of

1178
00:48:17,280 --> 00:48:20,000
land over the city

1179
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:23,680
163 sorry all right this is why didn't I

1180
00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:26,160
want to make sure that's correct 75 are

1181
00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:28,880
parks uh and our parks are pretty much

1182
00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:31,359
parks a lot of our parks are parks

1183
00:48:31,359 --> 00:48:33,440
because you can't develop on like you

1184
00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:35,440
can't develop at Riverside Park because

1185
00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:37,040
it's floodway you can't develop on

1186
00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:39,200
waterworks park you can't develop on on

1187
00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:41,440
Peninsula Park there's just parkland

1188
00:48:41,440 --> 00:48:43,040
that you cannot develop on and I don't

1189
00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:45,520
think the city would want us to turn

1190
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:47,760
Prospect Park or Candy Cane Park into a

1191
00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:50,319
bunch of housing. I don't think that's

1192
00:48:50,319 --> 00:48:54,079
really what the city wants to do. Um 7.7

1193
00:48:54,079 --> 00:48:58,480
acres are city facilities. Um 5.7 acres

1194
00:48:58,480 --> 00:49:00,160
are public parking lots, which I'm not

1195
00:49:00,160 --> 00:49:01,520
giving up on the fact that we need all

1196
00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:02,640
those parking lots. I think we need

1197
00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:04,000
parking, but I also think that there's

1198
00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:06,240
ways to take corporate parking into

1199
00:49:06,240 --> 00:49:09,520
development. Um and then 10.6 acres are

1200
00:49:09,520 --> 00:49:12,160
constrained parcels. So we have a former

1201
00:49:12,160 --> 00:49:15,200
city dump. We have uh a big couple we

1202
00:49:15,200 --> 00:49:17,599
have a couple walls in the in in the

1203
00:49:17,599 --> 00:49:20,240
south side that are kind of there um

1204
00:49:20,240 --> 00:49:22,160
that are are city owned but not really

1205
00:49:22,160 --> 00:49:24,880
developable. Um and then we have a

1206
00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:26,160
property on 1 Avenue that has a

1207
00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:28,480
developer speed which we're working on.

1208
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:32,319
Uh so that leaves 42.5 acres of the city

1209
00:49:32,319 --> 00:49:34,319
are potentially

1210
00:49:34,319 --> 00:49:36,800
developable. However, most of them are

1211
00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:39,280
severely constrained and 38 acres of

1212
00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:42,720
this is Wall Street. So realistically,

1213
00:49:42,720 --> 00:49:44,640
some people say the city has a bunch of

1214
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:46,800
land that we could develop unless we

1215
00:49:46,800 --> 00:49:48,480
want to start hacking away parks, which

1216
00:49:48,480 --> 00:49:52,079
I don't think is our wants. That's kind

1217
00:49:52,079 --> 00:49:55,760
of where this is for most intents and

1218
00:49:55,760 --> 00:50:00,000
purposes. the last mighty

1219
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:02,960
>> where the where that taxable gap is and

1220
00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:04,400
what's serving the community. Not that

1221
00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:06,160
Eastern's not serving the community, but

1222
00:50:06,160 --> 00:50:08,880
I mean like they could be paying whether

1223
00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:10,880
it's through services or taxes like

1224
00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:16,240
that's a huge percentage. So it seems uh

1225
00:50:16,240 --> 00:50:18,640
>> immoral to then take that load and

1226
00:50:18,640 --> 00:50:20,559
burden and do it to to housing. You know

1227
00:50:20,559 --> 00:50:21,920
what I mean? like that. That's where

1228
00:50:21,920 --> 00:50:24,079
we're expected to oh, you know, where we

1229
00:50:24,079 --> 00:50:26,079
don't have enough taxable or low and top

1230
00:50:26,079 --> 00:50:28,960
shops or, you know, or have more Dollar

1231
00:50:28,960 --> 00:50:30,400
Generals. It's not even a good dollar

1232
00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:32,800
store. Just

1233
00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:34,400
>> Well, I'm I'm working with the mayor

1234
00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:36,240
right now to actually get a meeting with

1235
00:50:36,240 --> 00:50:37,839
the president to talk about potential

1236
00:50:37,839 --> 00:50:40,400
sales because EMU when I was at Eastern,

1237
00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:42,400
we had 25,000 students. Now we're about

1238
00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:45,119
13,000 students. The campus has changed

1239
00:50:45,119 --> 00:50:46,960
and the future of universities have have

1240
00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:49,280
changed. Um, and so there are some lands

1241
00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:51,599
that the university isn't using that we

1242
00:50:51,599 --> 00:50:53,440
want to have the conversation with them

1243
00:50:53,440 --> 00:50:55,280
about because I think it's important.

1244
00:50:55,280 --> 00:50:58,240
>> Yeah, I I would just add to briefly.

1245
00:50:58,240 --> 00:51:01,119
>> Um, yeah, 50% of the 50% that is untaxed

1246
00:51:01,119 --> 00:51:03,680
is eating, right? And so we have um with

1247
00:51:03,680 --> 00:51:05,839
the new president immediately came in

1248
00:51:05,839 --> 00:51:07,200
open and you know willing to have

1249
00:51:07,200 --> 00:51:09,200
dialogue about how does the university

1250
00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:11,040
give back you know to the community that

1251
00:51:11,040 --> 00:51:13,920
could be selling land or other services.

1252
00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:15,839
So we are in active conversation with me

1253
00:51:15,839 --> 00:51:17,520
pretty often and I'm on the strategic

1254
00:51:17,520 --> 00:51:19,760
planning committee so that the the point

1255
00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:21,760
is that was in lock step together of how

1256
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:23,599
do you make this make sense for for both

1257
00:51:23,599 --> 00:51:28,000
of us as the university goes so the city

1258
00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:29,599
>> one of the things that Katie asked me to

1259
00:51:29,599 --> 00:51:31,440
talk about was setting aside land and

1260
00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:35,680
water street for parks essentially and

1261
00:51:35,680 --> 00:51:38,800
so in looking at it right now 38 acres

1262
00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:41,680
is what we consider water street however

1263
00:51:41,680 --> 00:51:43,760
31 of them are developable because of

1264
00:51:43,760 --> 00:51:46,000
the river trail. So, we got a grant to

1265
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:48,000
put in the Water Street Trail, which is

1266
00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:50,160
beautiful. You haven't been on it,

1267
00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:52,880
please go. It's amazing. But that takes

1268
00:51:52,880 --> 00:51:55,920
out about seven of the acres of the 38

1269
00:51:55,920 --> 00:51:57,280
acres. So, right now, Water Street

1270
00:51:57,280 --> 00:51:59,839
already has a 7 acre park ended in the

1271
00:51:59,839 --> 00:52:01,760
middle. If we set aside, let's say,

1272
00:52:01,760 --> 00:52:06,640
three remaining acres as as park, um

1273
00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:09,359
that would move three developable acres.

1274
00:52:09,359 --> 00:52:11,920
Creating a dedicated park

1275
00:52:11,920 --> 00:52:14,240
would add funding that the city has to

1276
00:52:14,240 --> 00:52:19,599
pay to maintain and create a park. As as Allison knows, parks are really cheap

1277
00:52:19,599 --> 00:52:22,640
and easy to create.

1278
00:52:22,640 --> 00:52:25,599
Joe um

1279
00:52:25,599 --> 00:52:28,240
and you can get grants for these things,

1280
00:52:28,240 --> 00:52:30,160
but almost every park development grant

1281
00:52:30,160 --> 00:52:32,240
has a 50% match. So regardless, let's

1282
00:52:32,240 --> 00:52:34,000
say it cost a million dollars to create

1283
00:52:34,000 --> 00:52:38,960
a new park. You're looking at uh uh you

1284
00:52:38,960 --> 00:52:40,720
know, it's a million dollars, it's

1285
00:52:40,720 --> 00:52:42,720
$500,000 the city has to come with up

1286
00:52:42,720 --> 00:52:44,319
with locally to actually put into that

1287
00:52:44,319 --> 00:52:47,040
park on top of me.

1288
00:52:47,040 --> 00:52:48,640
So you have the long-term maintenance

1289
00:52:48,640 --> 00:52:50,160
and design and construction. I'm going

1290
00:52:50,160 --> 00:52:51,599
to finish this letter and then I'll get

1291
00:52:51,599 --> 00:52:53,920
back to you. And then so realistically

1292
00:52:53,920 --> 00:52:57,520
if you take 10% of the land out of the

1293
00:52:57,520 --> 00:53:01,359
ability to develop it then that's 10 to

1294
00:53:01,359 --> 00:53:04,720
15% but less property taxes and then you

1295
00:53:04,720 --> 00:53:08,000
can add new cost every year to maintain

1296
00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:11,520
that park. The best way that I have seen

1297
00:53:11,520 --> 00:53:13,920
to actually do it is through a process

1298
00:53:13,920 --> 00:53:16,240
like this where any developer would have

1299
00:53:16,240 --> 00:53:18,800
to build a park and then dedicate it

1300
00:53:18,800 --> 00:53:20,160
back to the city. So then you do have

1301
00:53:20,160 --> 00:53:22,720
the operating costs, but the cost to

1302
00:53:22,720 --> 00:53:24,160
actually develop that park is part of

1303
00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:26,720
the developing agreement. And so if they

1304
00:53:26,720 --> 00:53:28,319
have to create it and then turn it back

1305
00:53:28,319 --> 00:53:30,640
over, that at least has the development

1306
00:53:30,640 --> 00:53:34,319
costs off the city's hands.

1307
00:53:34,319 --> 00:53:34,960
Joy,

1308
00:53:34,960 --> 00:53:38,319
>> my my question is of the acreage that

1309
00:53:38,319 --> 00:53:40,319
are currently parks, how would you

1310
00:53:40,319 --> 00:53:43,040
characterize our ability to maintain

1311
00:53:43,040 --> 00:53:48,079
those acres? getting better

1312
00:53:48,079 --> 00:53:50,160
>> from a monetary point of

1313
00:53:50,160 --> 00:53:54,319
>> oh it costs a lot and and

1314
00:53:54,319 --> 00:53:56,800
I guess I guess I'm trying to put a

1315
00:53:56,800 --> 00:53:58,559
number on it to a certain extent and I

1316
00:53:58,559 --> 00:54:01,280
realize it's abstract question but on a

1317
00:54:01,280 --> 00:54:04,079
scale of 1 to 10 or

1318
00:54:04,079 --> 00:54:07,040
a a monetary scale of 1 to 10 what are

1319
00:54:07,040 --> 00:54:09,119
we spending if 10 is what we should be

1320
00:54:09,119 --> 00:54:10,559
spending

1321
00:54:10,559 --> 00:54:12,319
>> in in all actuality we're probably

1322
00:54:12,319 --> 00:54:14,000
spending3

1323
00:54:14,000 --> 00:54:16,480
to $400,000 a year to maintain our parks

1324
00:54:16,480 --> 00:54:18,079
and that is not doing the capital

1325
00:54:18,079 --> 00:54:20,400
improvements needed to mention.

1326
00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:22,720
>> And what should that number be?

1327
00:54:22,720 --> 00:54:24,000
>> Probably a million

1328
00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:25,839
>> a year. Thank you.

1329
00:54:25,839 --> 00:54:28,880
>> Cuz most of our cars ain't got no

1330
00:54:28,880 --> 00:54:31,839
>> working on it.

1331
00:54:31,839 --> 00:54:32,559
>> Trying.

1332
00:54:32,559 --> 00:54:37,359
>> Are like natural preserved areas

1333
00:54:37,359 --> 00:54:39,599
a thing that can happen?

1334
00:54:39,599 --> 00:54:41,119
>> They are. You don't typically see a

1335
00:54:41,119 --> 00:54:43,359
natural preserve area in a city like

1336
00:54:43,359 --> 00:54:46,720
ours because we have much less land and

1337
00:54:46,720 --> 00:54:49,839
we have more urban parks typically. Now

1338
00:54:49,839 --> 00:54:51,599
with that said, peninsula park will

1339
00:54:51,599 --> 00:54:52,960
probably become the closest thing we

1340
00:54:52,960 --> 00:54:54,319
have to a natural park especially

1341
00:54:54,319 --> 00:54:55,599
because we'll be expanding it when we

1342
00:54:55,599 --> 00:54:59,599
move dam. Uh however that's kind of rare

1343
00:54:59,599 --> 00:55:02,079
in a city of our size to have a natural

1344
00:55:02,079 --> 00:55:03,839
area because typically the average

1345
00:55:03,839 --> 00:55:07,200
national area is hundreds of acres and

1346
00:55:07,200 --> 00:55:09,200
we don't have hundreds of acres. And

1347
00:55:09,200 --> 00:55:10,960
Allison, correct me if I'm wrong, but

1348
00:55:10,960 --> 00:55:13,119
like they still require maintenance

1349
00:55:13,119 --> 00:55:15,119
costs and

1350
00:55:15,119 --> 00:55:17,440
>> Yeah. And you'd still run into the same

1351
00:55:17,440 --> 00:55:19,599
issues with Water Street where that

1352
00:55:19,599 --> 00:55:20,800
we've talked about with like some other

1353
00:55:20,800 --> 00:55:22,240
things where it's like it is dirty

1354
00:55:22,240 --> 00:55:25,520
property and is the best use of that to

1355
00:55:25,520 --> 00:55:27,520
be held in the natural state. And the

1356
00:55:27,520 --> 00:55:29,680
answer unfortunately might not be yes. I

1357
00:55:29,680 --> 00:55:31,040
mean it might look good to have trees

1358
00:55:31,040 --> 00:55:32,880
growing on it, but it might actually be

1359
00:55:32,880 --> 00:55:35,520
detrimental to

1360
00:55:35,520 --> 00:55:37,119
sucking up whatever's in the ground and

1361
00:55:37,119 --> 00:55:38,319
passing it on to birds. it's not

1362
00:55:38,319 --> 00:55:39,599
helpful. So, you get a lot more

1363
00:55:39,599 --> 00:55:41,920
skepticism from you would get a lot more

1364
00:55:41,920 --> 00:55:46,400
skepticism on from folks um like at

1365
00:55:46,400 --> 00:55:48,880
least from the county or other funding

1366
00:55:48,880 --> 00:55:51,680
agencies on creating a public park out

1367
00:55:51,680 --> 00:55:54,000
of a brown field or a natural area south

1368
00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:56,559
of a brown field. Not to say there's not

1369
00:55:56,559 --> 00:56:03,430
valuable green space in this mix, but it

1370
00:56:03,440 --> 00:56:06,400
» you have anything, Steve?

1371
00:56:06,400 --> 00:56:07,599
>> Uh,

1372
00:56:07,599 --> 00:56:09,119
>> you got to raise your hand.

1373
00:56:09,119 --> 00:56:09,520
>> Your money.

1374
00:56:09,520 --> 00:56:10,799
>> I did, but

1375
00:56:10,799 --> 00:56:13,040
>> Okay. No. So, this is kind of going This

1376
00:56:13,040 --> 00:56:16,000
is where am I am I Oh, yeah.

1377
00:56:16,000 --> 00:56:18,079
>> I just wanted to add to that. If we

1378
00:56:18,079 --> 00:56:20,960
wanted to make it a park or a preserve,

1379
00:56:20,960 --> 00:56:22,559
we would still have to clean it up

1380
00:56:22,559 --> 00:56:23,359
first, right?

1381
00:56:23,359 --> 00:56:26,400
>> Yeah. Because with the city can't just

1382
00:56:26,400 --> 00:56:28,240
polish it something when it's

1383
00:56:28,240 --> 00:56:30,160
contaminated because then we would have

1384
00:56:30,160 --> 00:56:31,440
the liability,

1385
00:56:31,440 --> 00:56:31,839
>> right,

1386
00:56:31,839 --> 00:56:33,680
>> of anyone visiting.

1387
00:56:33,680 --> 00:56:35,200
>> Yes.

1388
00:56:35,200 --> 00:56:36,799
>> Yeah. We still legally have to have a

1389
00:56:36,799 --> 00:56:41,200
fence right now and will even after the

1390
00:56:41,200 --> 00:56:45,280
cleanup this fall for a portion of it.

1391
00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:46,480
Unfortunately,

1392
00:56:46,480 --> 00:56:50,480
>> every development party, every has to

1393
00:56:50,480 --> 00:56:51,680
have infrastructure, storm water

1394
00:56:51,680 --> 00:56:53,119
management, roads, utilities, parking,

1395
00:56:53,119 --> 00:56:55,599
public amenities. Carving out the public

1396
00:56:55,599 --> 00:56:57,440
land before we actually set it up for an

1397
00:56:57,440 --> 00:57:01,599
RFP would increase the cost, but also

1398
00:57:01,599 --> 00:57:03,200
constrict a developer to use a piece of

1399
00:57:03,200 --> 00:57:04,640
property. I'll give you an example. You

1400
00:57:04,640 --> 00:57:06,160
can do a lot of really cool storm water

1401
00:57:06,160 --> 00:57:08,640
management in the middle of a park that

1402
00:57:08,640 --> 00:57:10,160
like just looks like it's part of a

1403
00:57:10,160 --> 00:57:12,720
park. Uh whereas we said this piece of

1404
00:57:12,720 --> 00:57:14,400
property can't be used for anything

1405
00:57:14,400 --> 00:57:19,839
because it's going to be public land. It constrains certain aspects that maybe

1406
00:57:19,839 --> 00:57:22,079
the potential best area for infiltration

1407
00:57:22,079 --> 00:57:23,920
of storm water. And so the better

1408
00:57:23,920 --> 00:57:26,960
approach is to require um a developer to

1409
00:57:26,960 --> 00:57:28,079
construct public spaces and then

1410
00:57:28,079 --> 00:57:29,920
transfer back to the city like I said

1411
00:57:29,920 --> 00:57:32,640
and reserves uh you know that certain

1412
00:57:32,640 --> 00:57:34,319
areas that are prone to flood plane open

1413
00:57:34,319 --> 00:57:37,119
space um could actually be part of the

1414
00:57:37,119 --> 00:57:40,240
development and utilized as part of the

1415
00:57:40,240 --> 00:57:42,559
overall ecosystem

1416
00:57:42,559 --> 00:57:46,079
and like for lack of a really bad 90s

1417
00:57:46,079 --> 00:57:48,000
movie biodome where you can use certain

1418
00:57:48,000 --> 00:57:51,520
parts for certain things um and still

1419
00:57:51,520 --> 00:57:53,839
have it be open to the public. I've

1420
00:57:53,839 --> 00:57:55,440
never used biod in public meeting

1421
00:57:55,440 --> 00:57:57,839
before, but I should do understand that

1422
00:57:57,839 --> 00:57:59,440
there are places that you can do one

1423
00:57:59,440 --> 00:58:02,400
thing that also do another. Um, and to

1424
00:58:02,400 --> 00:58:05,839
say we have an expectation that there is

1425
00:58:05,839 --> 00:58:08,480
a public park in this development that

1426
00:58:08,480 --> 00:58:11,040
you create, but we're going to let you

1427
00:58:11,040 --> 00:58:19,109
master plan.

1428
00:58:19,119 --> 00:58:21,440
All right. after all this. Oh, that

1429
00:58:21,440 --> 00:58:26,559
would be a good slide. Um,

1430
00:58:26,559 --> 00:58:28,559
I'm not going to get through to this

1431
00:58:28,559 --> 00:58:30,400
slide. So,

1432
00:58:30,400 --> 00:58:33,040
um, takeways I'm hoping you get from

1433
00:58:33,040 --> 00:58:35,839
this. If we're at $75 million in new

1434
00:58:35,839 --> 00:58:38,799
taxable value, $6 million roughly up to

1435
00:58:38,799 --> 00:58:40,799
$2 million

1436
00:58:40,799 --> 00:58:45,200
um of taxable value to the city. Um we

1437
00:58:45,200 --> 00:58:46,240
are going to need some sort of

1438
00:58:46,240 --> 00:58:50,799
incentive. Uh and $20 million is kind of

1439
00:58:50,799 --> 00:58:55,520
just an idea. uh there is a gap in some

1440
00:58:55,520 --> 00:58:57,440
of the taller buildings and so just

1441
00:58:57,440 --> 00:59:02,069
beginning to understand that

1442
00:59:02,079 --> 00:59:04,799
» based on the fictitious

1443
00:59:04,799 --> 00:59:06,720
water that you spilled in your mind.

1444
00:59:06,720 --> 00:59:07,520
>> Sure.

1445
00:59:07,520 --> 00:59:10,720
>> That generates 1.7 to 1.9 million

1446
00:59:10,720 --> 00:59:12,319
taxable

1447
00:59:12,319 --> 00:59:15,440
>> to the city.

1448
00:59:15,440 --> 00:59:17,680
>> What would it take to maintain those 38

1449
00:59:17,680 --> 00:59:19,839
acres from the point of view of the

1450
00:59:19,839 --> 00:59:25,040
city? Is the 1.7 to 1.9

1451
00:59:25,040 --> 00:59:26,559
>> just enough?

1452
00:59:26,559 --> 00:59:30,079
>> Is it is there extra revenue there?

1453
00:59:30,079 --> 00:59:32,640
>> So it all sort of roughly roughly all

1454
00:59:32,640 --> 00:59:33,200
in.

1455
00:59:33,200 --> 00:59:35,359
>> Yeah. So it really depends on how it's

1456
00:59:35,359 --> 00:59:39,920
laid out, right? Because the less dense,

1457
00:59:39,920 --> 00:59:42,319
the more sprawling a development, the

1458
00:59:42,319 --> 00:59:43,760
more it actually costs the city to

1459
00:59:43,760 --> 00:59:47,119
maintain. So if you have a single family

1460
00:59:47,119 --> 00:59:49,760
home, the city provides trash. If you

1461
00:59:49,760 --> 00:59:51,760
have a apartment complex, they have to

1462
00:59:51,760 --> 00:59:55,200
provide their own trash service. Um, if

1463
00:59:55,200 --> 00:59:56,640
it's a public road, the city has to

1464
00:59:56,640 --> 01:00:00,319
maintain those roads. Um,

1465
01:00:00,319 --> 01:00:02,960
you know, I would say that,

1466
01:00:02,960 --> 01:00:04,720
you know, single family residential is

1467
01:00:04,720 --> 01:00:07,839
the most expensive type of land use to

1468
01:00:07,839 --> 01:00:11,280
have because still

1469
01:00:11,280 --> 01:00:16,240
you don't have economies of scale. But you the assumption in your $150

1470
01:00:16,240 --> 01:00:17,839
million

1471
01:00:17,839 --> 01:00:20,240
isn't just single family residential.

1472
01:00:20,240 --> 01:00:22,400
It's it's a complex mix of things. But

1473
01:00:22,400 --> 01:00:24,480
of course, it's also fictitious. So it's

1474
01:00:24,480 --> 01:00:25,040
completely fake.

1475
01:00:25,040 --> 01:00:26,480
>> I'm not I'm not putting you on the spot

1476
01:00:26,480 --> 01:00:28,079
in that regard.

1477
01:00:28,079 --> 01:00:29,599
>> But

1478
01:00:29,599 --> 01:00:33,440
my question is, is the city expecting

1479
01:00:33,440 --> 01:00:35,760
at the level of development you're

1480
01:00:35,760 --> 01:00:37,440
thinking? Would the city be expecting

1481
01:00:37,440 --> 01:00:40,079
that there's extra money?

1482
01:00:40,079 --> 01:00:41,200
>> Yes. Yeah, they're just going to have to

1483
01:00:41,200 --> 01:00:41,760
pay for the

1484
01:00:41,760 --> 01:00:43,119
>> No, I would say there would be money I

1485
01:00:43,119 --> 01:00:45,760
mean the city's

1486
01:00:45,760 --> 01:00:48,960
most of the city's basic costs are

1487
01:00:48,960 --> 01:00:50,880
already there. So, it's not like we

1488
01:00:50,880 --> 01:00:53,920
would need to add an fire department to

1489
01:00:53,920 --> 01:00:57,910
cover this.

1490
01:00:57,920 --> 01:00:58,960
» Let's see.

1491
01:00:58,960 --> 01:01:02,000
>> Yeah. So, height is is a thing, right?

1492
01:01:02,000 --> 01:01:05,599
So, we just purchased a new truck that

1493
01:01:05,599 --> 01:01:07,359
can go to a certain height.

1494
01:01:07,359 --> 01:01:07,760
>> Yeah.

1495
01:01:07,760 --> 01:01:09,760
>> And if we build higher than that, then

1496
01:01:09,760 --> 01:01:12,319
we have to increase our infrastructure

1497
01:01:12,319 --> 01:01:14,480
for that doing that.

1498
01:01:14,480 --> 01:01:16,960
>> But like what's I mean, we want

1499
01:01:16,960 --> 01:01:18,960
development, right? We can't have

1500
01:01:18,960 --> 01:01:21,200
development without some like sooner or

1501
01:01:21,200 --> 01:01:22,559
later there's going to be costs related

1502
01:01:22,559 --> 01:01:24,480
to that come back to the city.

1503
01:01:24,480 --> 01:01:28,079
>> It's actually a reasonable question in this context is

1504
01:01:28,079 --> 01:01:29,440
>> what is the highest building

1505
01:01:29,440 --> 01:01:31,760
>> right now? a 10 story I think 11 story

1506
01:01:31,760 --> 01:01:32,880
building is the tallest building we

1507
01:01:32,880 --> 01:01:33,680
haven't seen.

1508
01:01:33,680 --> 01:01:36,720
>> I but but but my my point is until you

1509
01:01:36,720 --> 01:01:39,440
actually see what the development I feel

1510
01:01:39,440 --> 01:01:40,880
like we're almost getting like too

1511
01:01:40,880 --> 01:01:43,359
theoretical here like until you actually

1512
01:01:43,359 --> 01:01:46,960
see what a proposal is to ask what it's

1513
01:01:46,960 --> 01:01:49,440
going to cost the city to maintain it to

1514
01:01:49,440 --> 01:01:50,960
me seems like a little bit beyond. So,

1515
01:01:50,960 --> 01:01:52,079
I'm sorry I'm just kind of trying to

1516
01:01:52,079 --> 01:01:53,599
like bark back figure out.

1517
01:01:53,599 --> 01:01:55,760
>> I I get that. My question had to do more

1518
01:01:55,760 --> 01:01:58,960
with it. That's a kind of an abstraction

1519
01:01:58,960 --> 01:02:01,760
because that's what it is. Um, does it

1520
01:02:01,760 --> 01:02:03,920
feel like it's

1521
01:02:03,920 --> 01:02:06,079
enough just sort of, oh, that's going to

1522
01:02:06,079 --> 01:02:08,079
be what it costs to maintain that

1523
01:02:08,079 --> 01:02:10,880
environment as opposed to, oh, that's

1524
01:02:10,880 --> 01:02:12,640
twice as much money as it would cost to

1525
01:02:12,640 --> 01:02:14,880
maintain that environment.

1526
01:02:14,880 --> 01:02:16,559
>> No, the city of Ann Arbor doesn't have a

1527
01:02:16,559 --> 01:02:18,079
ladder truck that gets to the top of the

1528
01:02:18,079 --> 01:02:19,359
20 store building. No,

1529
01:02:19,359 --> 01:02:21,119
>> like there's the ladder truck's a ladder

1530
01:02:21,119 --> 01:02:22,240
truck. We're required to have one

1531
01:02:22,240 --> 01:02:24,160
because we have 10tory buildings. We're

1532
01:02:24,160 --> 01:02:25,920
not going to need a new ladder. Like I

1533
01:02:25,920 --> 01:02:27,440
said, I don't see us really needing even

1534
01:02:27,440 --> 01:02:29,599
a new ship to build a new fire station.

1535
01:02:29,599 --> 01:02:31,760
Like that's fine. City hall, we're not

1536
01:02:31,760 --> 01:02:33,839
going to hire new staff because

1537
01:02:33,839 --> 01:02:35,839
realistically, we could add a thousand

1538
01:02:35,839 --> 01:02:37,440
residents and and not do it. Now,

1539
01:02:37,440 --> 01:02:38,880
policing, that gets to be a little bit

1540
01:02:38,880 --> 01:02:40,319
more challenging. If we are adding a

1541
01:02:40,319 --> 01:02:42,799
thousand new residents, we might need

1542
01:02:42,799 --> 01:02:44,400
potentially there, but once again, we'll

1543
01:02:44,400 --> 01:02:47,440
be able to to figure that out over time.

1544
01:02:47,440 --> 01:02:49,680
And so I don't I think that this would

1545
01:02:49,680 --> 01:02:53,680
be overall how how it's constructed a

1546
01:02:53,680 --> 01:02:55,920
net positive which is what we do need as

1547
01:02:55,920 --> 01:02:58,160
a city. We need a positive increase in

1548
01:02:58,160 --> 01:02:59,760
tax tax.

1549
01:02:59,760 --> 01:03:02,480
Um what that exact number is would be

1550
01:03:02,480 --> 01:03:05,520
really determined on the values as they

1551
01:03:05,520 --> 01:03:08,079
come in because once again I'm picking a

1552
01:03:08,079 --> 01:03:10,640
lot of these numbers off the air. Uh

1553
01:03:10,640 --> 01:03:13,119
because you have to have an idea. I

1554
01:03:13,119 --> 01:03:14,480
don't think I I mean I I hope you

1555
01:03:14,480 --> 01:03:16,559
understand tax value a little bit better

1556
01:03:16,559 --> 01:03:18,319
today than you did before you walked in

1557
01:03:18,319 --> 01:03:20,799
here um and how incentives work a little

1558
01:03:20,799 --> 01:03:22,720
bit better and I also can sit down with

1559
01:03:22,720 --> 01:03:25,359
any of you individually uh to go through

1560
01:03:25,359 --> 01:03:28,880
it. Uh I'm also not the best I'm not the

1561
01:03:28,880 --> 01:03:31,520
authority on any of this. Uh it's just

1562
01:03:31,520 --> 01:03:34,319
I've I've dealt with enough projects. I

1563
01:03:34,319 --> 01:03:36,799
do understand.

1564
01:03:36,799 --> 01:03:38,640
I also think it's important that like at

1565
01:03:38,640 --> 01:03:40,160
this stage for the RFQ like it's

1566
01:03:40,160 --> 01:03:42,079
important for us to have this theory in

1567
01:03:42,079 --> 01:03:43,760
our brain but like it doesn't have to be

1568
01:03:43,760 --> 01:03:46,640
in the RFQ at the moment right like

1569
01:03:46,640 --> 01:03:48,240
people are going to submit their

1570
01:03:48,240 --> 01:03:50,319
qualifications then we'll enter

1571
01:03:50,319 --> 01:03:52,640
negotiations where we'll start to like

1572
01:03:52,640 --> 01:03:54,079
talk about these things which will be

1573
01:03:54,079 --> 01:03:57,839
like step two or three right like we're

1574
01:03:57,839 --> 01:04:01,280
on step one which is I'm not saying it's

1575
01:04:01,280 --> 01:04:03,039
not important it absolutely is important

1576
01:04:03,039 --> 01:04:05,039
for us to have a concept of I just want

1577
01:04:05,039 --> 01:04:08,480
to make sure that we don't get stuck in these details trying to nail

1578
01:04:08,480 --> 01:04:11,119
that down in the RFQ and I don't know

1579
01:04:11,119 --> 01:04:13,440
that we will have an answer until we

1580
01:04:13,440 --> 01:04:15,039
have a developer who we actually want to

1581
01:04:15,039 --> 01:04:17,520
talk to and begin to negotiate with.

1582
01:04:17,520 --> 01:04:19,039
Like I don't think that that's right

1583
01:04:19,039 --> 01:04:20,559
like

1584
01:04:20,559 --> 01:04:23,599
but this is conceptual as we

1585
01:04:23,599 --> 01:04:25,119
>> gut check. Who here feels like they kind

1586
01:04:25,119 --> 01:04:26,880
of understand the moment a tiny bit

1587
01:04:26,880 --> 01:04:28,799
better?

1588
01:04:28,799 --> 01:04:32,079
Who here has a lot more questions?

1589
01:04:32,079 --> 01:04:34,720
>> No. So once again questions.

1590
01:04:34,720 --> 01:04:38,319
>> Yeah. Um, but I know it's a lot and I'm

1591
01:04:38,319 --> 01:04:39,520
sorry and I went way over time. I

1592
01:04:39,520 --> 01:04:41,839
promise maybe I'd be done in 40 minutes.

1593
01:04:41,839 --> 01:04:44,000
That didn't happen.

1594
01:04:44,000 --> 01:04:47,520
But is there any last questions?

1595
01:04:47,520 --> 01:04:49,440
And you will get this presentation. I

1596
01:04:49,440 --> 01:04:51,119
just know of three errors that I need to

1597
01:04:51,119 --> 01:04:53,599
fix before.

1598
01:04:53,599 --> 01:04:55,760
>> And we can always have Joe back or ask

1599
01:04:55,760 --> 01:04:57,359
questions or I can bring answers.

1600
01:04:57,359 --> 01:04:58,799
>> Also, if you think of anything here,

1601
01:04:58,799 --> 01:05:01,359
I'll pass around on the top of my cards.

1602
01:05:01,359 --> 01:05:07,760
Email me. I'm here to I'm here to help

1603
01:05:07,760 --> 01:05:18,230
whoever watch

1604
01:05:18,240 --> 01:05:19,920
Excuse me. We took a lot of time with

1605
01:05:19,920 --> 01:05:22,160
this. So, I'm going to make sure when we

1606
01:05:22,160 --> 01:05:24,880
do get off into our um discussion that

1607
01:05:24,880 --> 01:05:26,960
we talk

1608
01:05:26,960 --> 01:05:29,280
>> that we try to be try to be somewhat

1609
01:05:29,280 --> 01:05:30,559
concise. If there's anything that

1610
01:05:30,559 --> 01:05:31,760
somebody need to talk to somebody

1611
01:05:31,760 --> 01:05:34,880
directly about wait or get somebody

1612
01:05:34,880 --> 01:05:37,280
number or something so we kind of start

1613
01:05:37,280 --> 01:05:40,960
moving frankly I feel like the intensity

1614
01:05:40,960 --> 01:05:42,960
for this for me is going to feel like we

1615
01:05:42,960 --> 01:05:46,480
not doing nothing proper get we trying

1616
01:05:46,480 --> 01:05:48,319
to figure out

1617
01:05:48,319 --> 01:05:50,799
process on this where we not be

1618
01:05:50,799 --> 01:05:53,440
>> and we got Adam's communication to kind

1619
01:05:53,440 --> 01:05:57,280
of have these sidebar things like that

1620
01:05:57,280 --> 01:06:02,400
>> collective you know, theoretically, conceptually,

1621
01:06:02,400 --> 01:06:10,069
let's just get the work.

1622
01:06:10,079 --> 01:06:11,680
» Well, some folks have sent it in, some

1623
01:06:11,680 --> 01:06:13,839
folks haven't. So, I think that it but

1624
01:06:13,839 --> 01:06:16,559
yeah, I think that um however you guys

1625
01:06:16,559 --> 01:06:17,440
want to do it.

1626
01:06:17,440 --> 01:06:19,680
>> So, is it cool for anybody who don't

1627
01:06:19,680 --> 01:06:21,599
want to physically share to put it in

1628
01:06:21,599 --> 01:06:24,079
email? I say already, so we still have

1629
01:06:24,079 --> 01:06:26,559
it. That's cool. Everybody cool with

1630
01:06:26,559 --> 01:06:30,079
that? Anybody opposed? Okay. Can we have

1631
01:06:30,079 --> 01:06:33,200
like maybe three or four people share

1632
01:06:33,200 --> 01:06:34,880
theirs that more of maybe want to be

1633
01:06:34,880 --> 01:06:37,119
more a little bit articulate. So break

1634
01:06:37,119 --> 01:06:38,799
that down. Is that cool as well? Any

1635
01:06:38,799 --> 01:06:42,000
objections? Okay. So who would like to

1636
01:06:42,000 --> 01:06:48,069
share their benefits and beliefs?

1637
01:06:48,079 --> 01:06:50,000
I would share my I was really proud that

1638
01:06:50,000 --> 01:06:51,599
they got I could do it in like one

1639
01:06:51,599 --> 01:06:54,000
minute and I like I was like really like

1640
01:06:54,000 --> 01:06:55,599
no we got like don't need don't need to

1641
01:06:55,599 --> 01:06:57,599
take too much time and and I I thought

1642
01:06:57,599 --> 01:06:59,119
your writing was beautiful and I would I

1643
01:06:59,119 --> 01:07:00,480
want to go like it was really nice just

1644
01:07:00,480 --> 01:07:01,599
that you spend that time to write that

1645
01:07:01,599 --> 01:07:03,680
out. So I'm going to mirror that and put

1646
01:07:03,680 --> 01:07:05,440
this in an email just to share for Katie

1647
01:07:05,440 --> 01:07:07,599
for a little bit more to digest. I think

1648
01:07:07,599 --> 01:07:10,000
after crunching this over my mind a lot,

1649
01:07:10,000 --> 01:07:11,680
I think three things that are important

1650
01:07:11,680 --> 01:07:14,400
to me to see Water Street moved with are

1651
01:07:14,400 --> 01:07:16,160
concept of sustainability,

1652
01:07:16,160 --> 01:07:18,799
affordability, and connectivity or

1653
01:07:18,799 --> 01:07:21,440
possibly movement. Um, which is how I

1654
01:07:21,440 --> 01:07:23,440
see that site integral into how our

1655
01:07:23,440 --> 01:07:26,000
whole community moves around. I won't

1656
01:07:26,000 --> 01:07:27,920
want to try to explain more because you

1657
01:07:27,920 --> 01:07:30,720
can pass to somebody else, okay,

1658
01:07:30,720 --> 01:07:32,559
>> third one was what?

1659
01:07:32,559 --> 01:07:33,599
>> Connectivity.

1660
01:07:33,599 --> 01:07:34,720
or movement.

1661
01:07:34,720 --> 01:07:36,319
>> Yeah. Yeah. I had move in my head and I

1662
01:07:36,319 --> 01:07:37,119
was like, "What was it?"

1663
01:07:37,119 --> 01:07:37,520
>> Yeah.

1664
01:07:37,520 --> 01:07:38,960
>> Connectivity. Okay.

1665
01:07:38,960 --> 01:07:42,710
>> Thanks.

1666
01:07:42,720 --> 01:07:45,680
» Uh I'm not gonna be our two articulate.

1667
01:07:45,680 --> 01:07:47,280
I just feel like even this coming with

1668
01:07:47,280 --> 01:07:48,880
that after that presentation, I probably

1669
01:07:48,880 --> 01:07:50,400
have to go back and chuck mine and come

1670
01:07:50,400 --> 01:07:53,359
back. But more importantly, I think that

1671
01:07:53,359 --> 01:07:55,440
we have to keep the people first with

1672
01:07:55,440 --> 01:07:57,599
this more so because it's not just like

1673
01:07:57,599 --> 01:08:01,280
a uh like it's it's got to be practical,

1674
01:08:01,280 --> 01:08:02,960
you know? I know we got McDonald. We got

1675
01:08:02,960 --> 01:08:06,000
to be practical, too. So, You know, we

1676
01:08:06,000 --> 01:08:07,280
got to be practical. I didn't know that

1677
01:08:07,280 --> 01:08:09,359
we only had this amount of taxable

1678
01:08:09,359 --> 01:08:10,880
stuff. So, we trying to think about how

1679
01:08:10,880 --> 01:08:14,720
we going to sustain a city for 100 years

1680
01:08:14,720 --> 01:08:16,719
is stuff that we can't even do if it was

1681
01:08:16,719 --> 01:08:19,679
200 years, you know? So,

1682
01:08:19,679 --> 01:08:21,759
we have to think about that in a sense

1683
01:08:21,759 --> 01:08:24,239
like we can we can reference in Arbor

1684
01:08:24,239 --> 01:08:26,480
and Arbor is a affluent wealthy town.

1685
01:08:26,480 --> 01:08:29,520
So, I don't want nobody paying $6,000

1686
01:08:29,520 --> 01:08:31,279
for nothing is because I know everybody

1687
01:08:31,279 --> 01:08:33,359
around this boy ain't got it like that.

1688
01:08:33,359 --> 01:08:34,880
So I want to bring people that's not

1689
01:08:34,880 --> 01:08:37,120
from to come with their money to come

1690
01:08:37,120 --> 01:08:39,359
bring different values to the community

1691
01:08:39,359 --> 01:08:43,120
that may in turn changes from some of us

1692
01:08:43,120 --> 01:08:45,040
not here. Our legacy is not here to

1693
01:08:45,040 --> 01:08:47,920
really keep what it is. So just I don't

1694
01:08:47,920 --> 01:08:54,630
know.

1695
01:08:54,640 --> 01:08:56,400
» Anybody else?

1696
01:08:56,400 --> 01:08:58,640
>> So we can put it into the email. email.

1697
01:08:58,640 --> 01:09:01,199
>> Oh, did you? I just I just

1698
01:09:01,199 --> 01:09:02,159
>> I want to hear

1699
01:09:02,159 --> 01:09:04,719
>> I just got Diana's

1700
01:09:04,719 --> 01:09:08,400
>> want to hear yours at all.

1701
01:09:08,400 --> 01:09:10,000
>> But

1702
01:09:10,000 --> 01:09:12,480
I'm scared to say like I feel like my

1703
01:09:12,480 --> 01:09:16,560
values like are we using value in like

1704
01:09:16,560 --> 01:09:18,799
what I want or value in

1705
01:09:18,799 --> 01:09:20,880
>> what you want to make you love.

1706
01:09:20,880 --> 01:09:23,759
>> Okay. So not not like high level. No,

1707
01:09:23,759 --> 01:09:28,159
this is you. Who are you?

1708
01:09:28,159 --> 01:09:28,640
>> Straight up.

1709
01:09:28,640 --> 01:09:31,440
>> I think so. When I I tried to think

1710
01:09:31,440 --> 01:09:33,040
about a little bit before this, but I

1711
01:09:33,040 --> 01:09:35,120
don't think I have a complete thought. I

1712
01:09:35,120 --> 01:09:39,120
think I value connectivity. I value

1713
01:09:39,120 --> 01:09:44,080
complete streets. Um, following like the

1714
01:09:44,080 --> 01:09:46,480
there's NACTO urban design guide.

1715
01:09:46,480 --> 01:09:47,920
There's the complete street principles

1716
01:09:47,920 --> 01:09:50,080
that are available online. I value those

1717
01:09:50,080 --> 01:09:52,719
being followed. Um, I value

1718
01:09:52,719 --> 01:09:55,760
connectivity. That's part of that. And I

1719
01:09:55,760 --> 01:10:01,120
value diversity in in use type in

1720
01:10:01,120 --> 01:10:04,719
construction. Um, and I

1721
01:10:04,719 --> 01:10:06,880
I'll get there.

1722
01:10:06,880 --> 01:10:08,080
>> Thank you.

1723
01:10:08,080 --> 01:10:10,239
>> What is diversity and use type in

1724
01:10:10,239 --> 01:10:11,280
construction?

1725
01:10:11,280 --> 01:10:13,920
>> I guess I know what diversity and use.

1726
01:10:13,920 --> 01:10:15,600
What does diversity and construction

1727
01:10:15,600 --> 01:10:19,440
mean? like um you know like maybe

1728
01:10:19,440 --> 01:10:20,880
there's town homes, maybe there's

1729
01:10:20,880 --> 01:10:24,960
duplexes, maybe there's five over one um

1730
01:10:24,960 --> 01:10:28,320
which is like um

1731
01:10:28,320 --> 01:10:30,960
four levels of apartments above one

1732
01:10:30,960 --> 01:10:34,080
floor, which would in my opinion make

1733
01:10:34,080 --> 01:10:37,360
sense on Michigan Avenue and help to to

1734
01:10:37,360 --> 01:10:40,880
calm Michigan Avenue from the racetrack

1735
01:10:40,880 --> 01:10:46,149
is

1736
01:10:46,159 --> 01:10:49,760
So, oh, one more thing. Um, sorry. I

1737
01:10:49,760 --> 01:10:53,120
value um making sure the community is

1738
01:10:53,120 --> 01:10:55,679
heard and we haven't had a lot of

1739
01:10:55,679 --> 01:10:58,960
community input um from people showing

1740
01:10:58,960 --> 01:11:01,360
up to this meeting, but we do have the

1741
01:11:01,360 --> 01:11:05,199
recordings from when Carl Wartman did

1742
01:11:05,199 --> 01:11:07,760
the community input sessions. And so, I

1743
01:11:07,760 --> 01:11:09,600
would value that we go back and listen

1744
01:11:09,600 --> 01:11:14,070
to what the community said that as well.

1745
01:11:14,080 --> 01:11:16,400
I want to uplift what had added to the

1746
01:11:16,400 --> 01:11:18,159
agenda too about having all of our

1747
01:11:18,159 --> 01:11:19,760
meetings like scheduling more of them

1748
01:11:19,760 --> 01:11:21,520
and that way we promote it to our

1749
01:11:21,520 --> 01:11:22,159
community.

1750
01:11:22,159 --> 01:11:22,400
>> Yes,

1751
01:11:22,400 --> 01:11:23,679
>> I would like to have it at different

1752
01:11:23,679 --> 01:11:32,950
places too like outside and any um

1753
01:11:32,960 --> 01:11:40,149
can move to the review.

1754
01:11:40,159 --> 01:11:43,590
Yeah.

1755
01:11:43,600 --> 01:11:58,149
Oh, okay.

1756
01:11:58,159 --> 01:12:03,280
So there were a couple sections that are int that I put comments that

1757
01:12:03,280 --> 01:12:05,520
were there was a values section I

1758
01:12:05,520 --> 01:12:07,760
believe that said committee

1759
01:12:07,760 --> 01:12:11,840
and then there was also

1760
01:12:11,840 --> 01:12:14,239
>> I think if you say item five you want to

1761
01:12:14,239 --> 01:12:19,120
address eight eight and nine

1762
01:12:19,120 --> 01:12:23,750
What Adam did you know verse

1763
01:12:23,760 --> 01:12:25,840
» eight I'm sorry

1764
01:12:25,840 --> 01:12:27,120
>> that was in the minutes was eight and

1765
01:12:27,120 --> 01:12:30,320
nine so yeah he was talking about the hundredyear vision and how we use

1766
01:12:30,320 --> 01:12:31,199
that

1767
01:12:31,199 --> 01:12:33,679
>> I think is how he what we wanted so we

1768
01:12:33,679 --> 01:12:35,199
can have that discussion

1769
01:12:35,199 --> 01:12:41,830
>> yeah the floor we going with it

1770
01:12:41,840 --> 01:12:47,280
» I as I said before so they eat

1771
01:12:47,280 --> 01:12:51,520
characterize as my relationship did not

1772
01:12:51,520 --> 01:12:53,199
characterize my relationship to the

1773
01:12:53,199 --> 01:13:04,470
100red-year vision the way I saw it.

1774
01:13:04,480 --> 01:13:07,760
You're talking about bullet point.

1775
01:13:07,760 --> 01:13:09,440
No, he's talking about the hundredyear

1776
01:13:09,440 --> 01:13:14,870
vision that

1777
01:13:14,880 --> 01:13:18,080
» in the minutes

1778
01:13:18,080 --> 01:13:21,199
>> item eight and nine

1779
01:13:21,199 --> 01:13:23,360
did not characterize

1780
01:13:23,360 --> 01:13:26,480
my relationship to 100year vision the

1781
01:13:26,480 --> 01:13:33,110
way I had expressed it at last meeting

1782
01:13:33,120 --> 01:13:34,560
earlier it was said that then there'll

1783
01:13:34,560 --> 01:13:37,600
be maybe a note added to say that Yes.

1784
01:13:37,600 --> 01:13:39,360
Yep. And I will change the minutes.

1785
01:13:39,360 --> 01:13:43,120
However, I think the dis it's to your

1786
01:13:43,120 --> 01:13:44,480
eyes to determine do you want to have

1787
01:13:44,480 --> 01:13:47,120
that discussion now of whether or not

1788
01:13:47,120 --> 01:13:50,080
you'll use the 100red-year vision as an

1789
01:13:50,080 --> 01:13:54,800
agenda to the RFQ cuz that was the

1790
01:13:54,800 --> 01:13:56,640
discussion that was at the last meeting

1791
01:13:56,640 --> 01:13:58,000
>> that he's saying he's not comfortable

1792
01:13:58,000 --> 01:14:00,560
with. I thought there was consensus.

1793
01:14:00,560 --> 01:14:06,390
There is not.

1794
01:14:06,400 --> 01:14:10,000
I would also like to say that at the

1795
01:14:10,000 --> 01:14:12,560
meeting I told Chuck that I would send

1796
01:14:12,560 --> 01:14:15,040
pictures of the post-it notes that we

1797
01:14:15,040 --> 01:14:16,640
all took so that you could see the

1798
01:14:16,640 --> 01:14:18,960
different handwritings and stuff and I

1799
01:14:18,960 --> 01:14:20,640
didn't do that until the beginning of

1800
01:14:20,640 --> 01:14:23,360
this meeting. I'm sorry but now you have

1801
01:14:23,360 --> 01:14:26,719
them. So maybe they can be reviewed and

1802
01:14:26,719 --> 01:14:31,040
then we can touch base on that after

1803
01:14:31,040 --> 01:14:36,630
but you have them now.

1804
01:14:36,640 --> 01:14:39,040
It feels like the logical question is

1805
01:14:39,040 --> 01:14:42,880
maybe what doesn't align. We weren't

1806
01:14:42,880 --> 01:14:45,520
here, so this is going over us. What

1807
01:14:45,520 --> 01:14:47,920
doesn't align? What is what part of the

1808
01:14:47,920 --> 01:14:49,920
hundred-year vision doesn't align? What

1809
01:14:49,920 --> 01:14:51,040
needs to be changed?

1810
01:14:51,040 --> 01:14:56,080
>> There there are numerous things they can be interpreted as word

1811
01:14:56,080 --> 01:14:58,560
smithing, but in my mind, they're not.

1812
01:14:58,560 --> 01:15:01,280
And therefore for me to start waiting

1813
01:15:01,280 --> 01:15:02,800
into

1814
01:15:02,800 --> 01:15:05,679
certain concepts in there

1815
01:15:05,679 --> 01:15:08,719
would take some time and that's not

1816
01:15:08,719 --> 01:15:12,000
allowed that's not allocated right now.

1817
01:15:12,000 --> 01:15:18,320
And so just numerous points and um

1818
01:15:18,320 --> 01:15:19,600
from my perspective they're not

1819
01:15:19,600 --> 01:15:21,199
superficial. They would require a little

1820
01:15:21,199 --> 01:15:25,120
bit of discussion. So I I don't know how

1821
01:15:25,120 --> 01:15:27,360
this group would like to deal with that.

1822
01:15:27,360 --> 01:15:29,520
how much time you think you need and

1823
01:15:29,520 --> 01:15:31,280
then we would allocate that to discuss

1824
01:15:31,280 --> 01:15:33,920
it if it's just equally as important I

1825
01:15:33,920 --> 01:15:37,199
think to us that we do agree with it. So

1826
01:15:37,199 --> 01:15:38,960
if we're going to come to a conflict we

1827
01:15:38,960 --> 01:15:40,640
need to discuss it. So how much time do

1828
01:15:40,640 --> 01:15:41,679
you think you need?

1829
01:15:41,679 --> 01:15:47,030
>> Um I honestly don't know. Um

1830
01:15:47,040 --> 01:15:53,270
half an hour would be more.

1831
01:15:53,280 --> 01:15:55,280
» I'm okay with that but I don't have it

1832
01:15:55,280 --> 01:15:57,120
in front of me at all. Yeah,

1833
01:15:57,120 --> 01:16:00,960
>> maybe you don't have the year vision.

1834
01:16:00,960 --> 01:16:04,560
>> Thought it was distributed to everyone.

1835
01:16:04,560 --> 01:16:06,719
>> I haven't like really looked at the last

1836
01:16:06,719 --> 01:16:08,320
and I was just going to say I feel like

1837
01:16:08,320 --> 01:16:10,239
if this is the discussion we're getting

1838
01:16:10,239 --> 01:16:12,400
into, maybe should this be on the agenda

1839
01:16:12,400 --> 01:16:14,000
for next meeting where we can actually

1840
01:16:14,000 --> 01:16:16,640
reread it. I don't think that it's not

1841
01:16:16,640 --> 01:16:18,080
fresh in my mind. I don't really there

1842
01:16:18,080 --> 01:16:20,239
anymore. So, you know, maybe that's

1843
01:16:20,239 --> 01:16:22,320
something that we bring back and we we

1844
01:16:22,320 --> 01:16:24,640
take a look at. The one thing I really

1845
01:16:24,640 --> 01:16:26,239
liked about that vision is I I think if

1846
01:16:26,239 --> 01:16:28,880
we like try to get us all on board with

1847
01:16:28,880 --> 01:16:30,400
the vision statement, that could be a

1848
01:16:30,400 --> 01:16:32,080
really hard thing because we're going to

1849
01:16:32,080 --> 01:16:33,520
bring a lot of different perspective to

1850
01:16:33,520 --> 01:16:36,880
it. Um just kind of to share my take on

1851
01:16:36,880 --> 01:16:39,679
that thing. Um it's just that it it

1852
01:16:39,679 --> 01:16:43,040
provides there is a very formal RFQ

1853
01:16:43,040 --> 01:16:44,560
that's happening here that is going to

1854
01:16:44,560 --> 01:16:46,800
be like very engineered and my god wait

1855
01:16:46,800 --> 01:16:48,320
till you see the brownfield plan that'll

1856
01:16:48,320 --> 01:16:50,320
be a result of this. like there is a lot

1857
01:16:50,320 --> 01:16:52,880
of very strict

1858
01:16:52,880 --> 01:16:57,040
writing detail, you know, that that

1859
01:16:57,040 --> 01:16:58,800
100-year vision is the only thing that

1860
01:16:58,800 --> 01:17:00,480
I've seen us like, you know, produced

1861
01:17:00,480 --> 01:17:02,080
yet that actually has some kind of a

1862
01:17:02,080 --> 01:17:03,920
community voice in it. Now, is it

1863
01:17:03,920 --> 01:17:05,679
perfect for everybody? No. You know, I'm

1864
01:17:05,679 --> 01:17:07,199
not going to say that that vision has to

1865
01:17:07,199 --> 01:17:09,840
be in 100% agreement. But I do think

1866
01:17:09,840 --> 01:17:11,440
it's really nice to bring something in

1867
01:17:11,440 --> 01:17:13,440
that talks that that speaks a little bit

1868
01:17:13,440 --> 01:17:15,760
to like who we are as a community and

1869
01:17:15,760 --> 01:17:17,360
not,

1870
01:17:17,360 --> 01:17:19,360
you know, what how long is the border to

1871
01:17:19,360 --> 01:17:20,719
border trail? What is our population

1872
01:17:20,719 --> 01:17:22,719
density? And so maybe we can kind of

1873
01:17:22,719 --> 01:17:26,080
work on that in our value in the vision

1874
01:17:26,080 --> 01:17:27,840
and goal statements to try to bring our

1875
01:17:27,840 --> 01:17:29,199
voices in that way. If maybe that would

1876
01:17:29,199 --> 01:17:30,800
be like a better way of Chuck that we

1877
01:17:30,800 --> 01:17:32,080
could kind of like move that.

1878
01:17:32,080 --> 01:17:33,520
>> I think so. And that's why I say it's

1879
01:17:33,520 --> 01:17:35,120
hard for me to say because I mean

1880
01:17:35,120 --> 01:17:38,880
certain things are questions or you know

1881
01:17:38,880 --> 01:17:42,080
expressions that I think need to be um

1882
01:17:42,080 --> 01:17:44,320
discussed and and altered. But some of

1883
01:17:44,320 --> 01:17:46,080
them is I'm I'm basically saying there

1884
01:17:46,080 --> 01:17:47,520
are things missing,

1885
01:17:47,520 --> 01:17:49,360
>> which means I can't tell you how long it

1886
01:17:49,360 --> 01:17:50,800
would take to discuss it.

1887
01:17:50,800 --> 01:17:51,280
>> Sure,

1888
01:17:51,280 --> 01:17:55,199
>> there's there there's information and

1889
01:17:55,199 --> 01:17:57,520
things that are not contained that need

1890
01:17:57,520 --> 01:17:59,920
to be contained. From my perspective,

1891
01:17:59,920 --> 01:18:01,440
you can all disagree and that's

1892
01:18:01,440 --> 01:18:04,320
perfectly fine. But from my perspective,

1893
01:18:04,320 --> 01:18:07,120
there's chunks of things missing and

1894
01:18:07,120 --> 01:18:10,239
therefore how do we discuss that

1895
01:18:10,239 --> 01:18:13,040
because the the author of it put in what

1896
01:18:13,040 --> 01:18:16,159
the author of it put in and I'm saying

1897
01:18:16,159 --> 01:18:17,760
from my perspective, I would put in

1898
01:18:17,760 --> 01:18:20,000
other things because I value them.

1899
01:18:20,000 --> 01:18:22,000
>> I I think she wasn't just an author

1900
01:18:22,000 --> 01:18:25,040
though. she was facilitating a meeting

1901
01:18:25,040 --> 01:18:26,320
and so again

1902
01:18:26,320 --> 01:18:27,199
>> so maybe

1903
01:18:27,199 --> 01:18:28,480
>> we can't wait I'd let me finish my

1904
01:18:28,480 --> 01:18:30,880
thought so uh we can't read your mind so

1905
01:18:30,880 --> 01:18:32,480
I don't know if you have two thoughts

1906
01:18:32,480 --> 01:18:34,480
that of things that are missing or 10 or

1907
01:18:34,480 --> 01:18:37,840
50 so this is why uh I understand that

1908
01:18:37,840 --> 01:18:39,840
if you know maybe you just said 30

1909
01:18:39,840 --> 01:18:43,679
minutes you in terms of to have a uh a

1910
01:18:43,679 --> 01:18:45,440
reasonable discussion where we're

1911
01:18:45,440 --> 01:18:46,800
actually getting to the meat of whatever

1912
01:18:46,800 --> 01:18:47,920
you think you're missing because again

1913
01:18:47,920 --> 01:18:50,159
we can't read your mind

1914
01:18:50,159 --> 01:18:52,000
let us know and then we can allocate to

1915
01:18:52,000 --> 01:18:54,239
discuss it.

1916
01:18:54,239 --> 01:18:56,080
>> Wait, wait, wait. So, I want you to go

1917
01:18:56,080 --> 01:18:57,520
to your thought and we'll go straight to

1918
01:18:57,520 --> 01:18:59,600
you. Go ahead.

1919
01:18:59,600 --> 01:19:04,229
>> Um,

1920
01:19:04,239 --> 01:19:08,709
in a way, I don't

1921
01:19:08,719 --> 01:19:11,520
» the things that I think that that might,

1922
01:19:11,520 --> 01:19:13,520
you know, might be missing, um, I think

1923
01:19:13,520 --> 01:19:16,080
are are also things I have brought up in

1924
01:19:16,080 --> 01:19:17,600
other meetings. So, it's not that it's

1925
01:19:17,600 --> 01:19:19,600
automatic that they weren't stated. I

1926
01:19:19,600 --> 01:19:23,040
wrote them on note cards or post-it

1927
01:19:23,040 --> 01:19:25,840
sheets and so on. Um, and it's just a

1928
01:19:25,840 --> 01:19:27,840
matter of how things get translated. And

1929
01:19:27,840 --> 01:19:29,520
when you have three minutes to write on

1930
01:19:29,520 --> 01:19:33,199
a post-it note, um, complex thoughts

1931
01:19:33,199 --> 01:19:35,040
that you might have had for a long

1932
01:19:35,040 --> 01:19:36,880
period of time, I mean, you know,

1933
01:19:36,880 --> 01:19:38,480
sometimes it's still hard to get them to

1934
01:19:38,480 --> 01:19:40,000
get them in there just quite right. And

1935
01:19:40,000 --> 01:19:41,920
I understand that. I can appreciate why

1936
01:19:41,920 --> 01:19:47,120
that's hard. But, um, uh, I think these

1937
01:19:47,120 --> 01:19:49,199
are

1938
01:19:49,199 --> 01:19:51,840
We're talking about

1939
01:19:51,840 --> 01:19:55,520
planning something that is for the next

1940
01:19:55,520 --> 01:19:59,360
hundred years or more and we're spending

1941
01:19:59,360 --> 01:20:02,719
just a couple hours doing it.

1942
01:20:02,719 --> 01:20:04,640
I I have pointed that out before.

1943
01:20:04,640 --> 01:20:06,400
There's an irony there that's

1944
01:20:06,400 --> 01:20:08,000
tremendous.

1945
01:20:08,000 --> 01:20:09,600
Um

1946
01:20:09,600 --> 01:20:14,159
these sorts of projects have

1947
01:20:14,159 --> 01:20:16,000
I have personal experience with them.

1948
01:20:16,000 --> 01:20:17,920
people spend a whole lot more time

1949
01:20:17,920 --> 01:20:20,400
planning and talking and and waiting

1950
01:20:20,400 --> 01:20:22,880
through this stuff, a lot more than this

1951
01:20:22,880 --> 01:20:26,640
group is doing. Um,

1952
01:20:26,640 --> 01:20:29,120
and so I mean we can spend the time that

1953
01:20:29,120 --> 01:20:30,880
we have and that's great. We can do the

1954
01:20:30,880 --> 01:20:32,719
best job that we can given the time we

1955
01:20:32,719 --> 01:20:35,360
have. But as I say with respect to the

1956
01:20:35,360 --> 01:20:36,960
100red-year vision, there are things in

1957
01:20:36,960 --> 01:20:39,440
it that I think I personally would like

1958
01:20:39,440 --> 01:20:40,800
to talk more about.

1959
01:20:40,800 --> 01:20:43,600
>> What? Give me an example. an example.

1960
01:20:43,600 --> 01:20:48,320
Um, the 200-y year history from today

1961
01:20:48,320 --> 01:20:56,229
back is not well represented.

1962
01:20:56,239 --> 01:21:01,040
» Thank you. Um maybe is it possible to

1963
01:21:01,040 --> 01:21:05,040
share with us the 100year vision in the

1964
01:21:05,040 --> 01:21:09,440
same edit editable format as um the

1965
01:21:09,440 --> 01:21:11,280
first

1966
01:21:11,280 --> 01:21:13,520
draft that he's done like a doc that we

1967
01:21:13,520 --> 01:21:16,880
could comment in so that maybe we could

1968
01:21:16,880 --> 01:21:21,120
do homework and see um before the next

1969
01:21:21,120 --> 01:21:22,239
meeting.

1970
01:21:22,239 --> 01:21:24,080
>> Yep.

1971
01:21:24,080 --> 01:21:25,920
>> Question. Do we have any more like

1972
01:21:25,920 --> 01:21:27,760
presentations or anything that we have

1973
01:21:27,760 --> 01:21:31,520
to do before our next meeting?

1974
01:21:31,520 --> 01:21:32,880
>> Not unless there's any that you guys

1975
01:21:32,880 --> 01:21:34,960
want. I don't think there's any other

1976
01:21:34,960 --> 01:21:37,199
ones that we had that I remember hearing

1977
01:21:37,199 --> 01:21:39,360
that you guys wanted thus far because

1978
01:21:39,360 --> 01:21:40,320
we've done

1979
01:21:40,320 --> 01:21:43,840
>> So, I'm asking that can we all agree

1980
01:21:43,840 --> 01:21:47,600
upon maybe the first 30 minutes with the

1981
01:21:47,600 --> 01:21:50,159
No, 7:15 was cool. I like that. Give

1982
01:21:50,159 --> 01:21:55,430
everybody a chance to actually get in.

1983
01:21:55,440 --> 01:21:57,440
I felt

1984
01:21:57,440 --> 01:22:00,800
like I feel like I feel like like to his

1985
01:22:00,800 --> 01:22:03,199
echo his voice like we are we have a

1986
01:22:03,199 --> 01:22:05,360
serious task on our hands and yes we

1987
01:22:05,360 --> 01:22:07,040
could do all the outside research and

1988
01:22:07,040 --> 01:22:08,960
come inside here but we need to have a

1989
01:22:08,960 --> 01:22:11,120
set place where we can't like talk you

1990
01:22:11,120 --> 01:22:13,679
know like talk

1991
01:22:13,679 --> 01:22:15,280
informally about it but we got to really

1992
01:22:15,280 --> 01:22:17,040
kick it more about this situation so I

1993
01:22:17,040 --> 01:22:19,120
can't really know what he said because

1994
01:22:19,120 --> 01:22:20,639
he's got a lot of history to bring that

1995
01:22:20,639 --> 01:22:22,639
might change my whole thought process

1996
01:22:22,639 --> 01:22:28,000
first scenario. So, it's like what are we going to do?

1997
01:22:28,000 --> 01:22:30,400
>> So, and I'm looking at this is this the

1998
01:22:30,400 --> 01:22:32,480
hundredyear vision we talking about

1999
01:22:32,480 --> 01:22:36,639
standing on the water street in 21.

2000
01:22:36,639 --> 01:22:38,719
>> So, it's a lot more that people wants to

2001
01:22:38,719 --> 01:22:41,760
add. I get it. This was generated after

2002
01:22:41,760 --> 01:22:45,280
we had met over there in the cold space.

2003
01:22:45,280 --> 01:22:45,600
>> Yes,

2004
01:22:45,600 --> 01:22:50,229
>> there's been more.

2005
01:22:50,239 --> 01:22:51,920
» Well, Nina, keeping it real for us. This

2006
01:22:51,920 --> 01:22:55,920
has been good. It's been good tonight.

2007
01:22:55,920 --> 01:23:03,510
>> Normally it's this is the place where

2008
01:23:03,520 --> 01:23:04,960
» I do totally understand what you're

2009
01:23:04,960 --> 01:23:06,719
saying. I agree to a certain extent that

2010
01:23:06,719 --> 01:23:08,400
we need to kind of have more time to be

2011
01:23:08,400 --> 01:23:14,320
kicking and kicking and actually get to the bottom of this. So, uh, is it

2012
01:23:14,320 --> 01:23:17,120
okay we all agree on dedicating the

2013
01:23:17,120 --> 01:23:22,719
first 35 minutes with a hard 7:35 stop?

2014
01:23:22,719 --> 01:23:24,560
>> A a Joe Meyer 35 minutes.

2015
01:23:24,560 --> 01:23:26,320
>> No, like

2016
01:23:26,320 --> 01:23:29,679
>> it will be it will be a Joe Meyers.

2017
01:23:29,679 --> 01:23:32,159
>> We end the discussion here like to limit

2018
01:23:32,159 --> 01:23:33,840
the time just because I think when the

2019
01:23:33,840 --> 01:23:36,239
idea is fresh, right, I'm more

2020
01:23:36,239 --> 01:23:39,040
interested and engaged and then if we

2021
01:23:39,040 --> 01:23:40,880
have a hard stop, we can come back to

2022
01:23:40,880 --> 01:23:43,280
it. probably I would like to I also

2023
01:23:43,280 --> 01:23:45,360
think that it needs more discussion but

2024
01:23:45,360 --> 01:23:47,360
I also think like I can't sit on one

2025
01:23:47,360 --> 01:23:49,760
theme for two hours and still have be as

2026
01:23:49,760 --> 01:23:51,440
enthusiastic as I was at the beginning

2027
01:23:51,440 --> 01:23:52,480
of it.

2028
01:23:52,480 --> 01:23:54,080
>> Yep. I think that makes sense. So 30

2029
01:23:54,080 --> 01:23:55,679
minutes for the hundredyear vision

2030
01:23:55,679 --> 01:23:56,960
discussion at the next meeting.

2031
01:23:56,960 --> 01:23:57,280
>> Yes.

2032
01:23:57,280 --> 01:24:00,159
>> Got it. What are we asking that we bring

2033
01:24:00,159 --> 01:24:04,480
more to it from each of us or we try to

2034
01:24:04,480 --> 01:24:04,800
let

2035
01:24:04,800 --> 01:24:06,560
>> So either you comment in the document in

2036
01:24:06,560 --> 01:24:08,320
between now and then because I'll send

2037
01:24:08,320 --> 01:24:09,360
it out

2038
01:24:09,360 --> 01:24:10,880
>> or you can bring your thoughts to the

2039
01:24:10,880 --> 01:24:12,639
meeting and communicate them there.

2040
01:24:12,639 --> 01:24:15,120
>> Right. The other thing I would ask is

2041
01:24:15,120 --> 01:24:17,199
that anybody who hasn't either spoken

2042
01:24:17,199 --> 01:24:21,440
tonight about their values or hasn't

2043
01:24:21,440 --> 01:24:23,840
emailed me to still do that because then

2044
01:24:23,840 --> 01:24:26,159
what I'll do is I'll compile those in

2045
01:24:26,159 --> 01:24:28,800
that section of the document. So then we

2046
01:24:28,800 --> 01:24:31,440
can also review that and so then we're

2047
01:24:31,440 --> 01:24:34,480
making progress on talking about those

2048
01:24:34,480 --> 01:24:36,159
values and

2049
01:24:36,159 --> 01:24:37,679
>> benefits that we want to see in a

2050
01:24:37,679 --> 01:24:40,639
development. And so if so again, if you

2051
01:24:40,639 --> 01:24:42,880
haven't commented on that tonight or if

2052
01:24:42,880 --> 01:24:44,480
you haven't emailed it to me, make sure

2053
01:24:44,480 --> 01:24:49,440
you do that so that everybody's voice is in there. And then I'll put I'll put

2054
01:24:49,440 --> 01:24:50,960
everybody's even if they seem

2055
01:24:50,960 --> 01:24:53,280
duplicitous so that then you guys can

2056
01:24:53,280 --> 01:24:56,239
see kind of the entire list even

2057
01:24:56,239 --> 01:24:59,280
repetitive repeated so that

2058
01:24:59,280 --> 01:25:00,719
>> Oh, I want to ask you if you could send

2059
01:25:00,719 --> 01:25:02,400
it back out.

2060
01:25:02,400 --> 01:25:02,880
>> Yes.

2061
01:25:02,880 --> 01:25:04,800
>> I'll be at work. I'll be busy.

2062
01:25:04,800 --> 01:25:06,480
>> You're fine. Yeah. No, that's that's

2063
01:25:06,480 --> 01:25:07,920
great. It just it's just sending me the

2064
01:25:07,920 --> 01:25:09,120
values and that you have.

2065
01:25:09,120 --> 01:25:10,960
>> Oh, so you just want me to say values

2066
01:25:10,960 --> 01:25:11,520
and split

2067
01:25:11,520 --> 01:25:13,679
>> and what they are. Yep.

2068
01:25:13,679 --> 01:25:15,280
>> Shout out to the team. I think we came

2069
01:25:15,280 --> 01:25:17,040
up with our system, too. So, is there

2070
01:25:17,040 --> 01:25:20,639
anybody that is opposed to our first 35

2071
01:25:20,639 --> 01:25:22,239
minutes

2072
01:25:22,239 --> 01:25:29,350
being you know, like 15 minute cond

2073
01:25:29,360 --> 01:25:31,840
real discussion because if everybody's

2074
01:25:31,840 --> 01:25:33,760
here at 7 o'clock, that actually gives

2075
01:25:33,760 --> 01:25:37,360
us 35 real minutes to really kick it.

2076
01:25:37,360 --> 01:25:40,880
>> All right, show us the hands.

2077
01:25:40,880 --> 01:25:42,080
>> Wait a minute. We're showing if we

2078
01:25:42,080 --> 01:25:43,360
object to it.

2079
01:25:43,360 --> 01:25:45,280
If you No,

2080
01:25:45,280 --> 01:25:46,880
>> if you agree. I'm trying to get

2081
01:25:46,880 --> 01:25:49,360
consensus.

2082
01:25:49,360 --> 01:25:50,880
>> Plus the uh I'm sorry.

2083
01:25:50,880 --> 01:25:52,239
>> Yes. Plus the

2084
01:25:52,239 --> 01:25:54,320
>> values. So then how long do you guys

2085
01:25:54,320 --> 01:25:56,000
want to spend on the values then at the

2086
01:25:56,000 --> 01:25:58,000
next meeting

2087
01:25:58,000 --> 01:25:58,880
reviewing it?

2088
01:25:58,880 --> 01:26:00,800
>> A couple seconds. So I feel like it's

2089
01:26:00,800 --> 01:26:02,880
like once you compile that thing, we all

2090
01:26:02,880 --> 01:26:04,480
be able to see what's what. Then I feel

2091
01:26:04,480 --> 01:26:07,520
like we can leave a a good 10 minutes.

2092
01:26:07,520 --> 01:26:08,239
>> Okay.

2093
01:26:08,239 --> 01:26:10,080
>> So that somebody can say, "Hey, I have

2094
01:26:10,080 --> 01:26:12,320
>> Ron over here making decisions tonight.

2095
01:26:12,320 --> 01:26:13,760
Oh,

2096
01:26:13,760 --> 01:26:15,840
>> fifth thing is I got questions for

2097
01:26:15,840 --> 01:26:18,000
clarification because something people

2098
01:26:18,000 --> 01:26:19,600
are saying is like kind of like that's

2099
01:26:19,600 --> 01:26:22,000
what it is. So either you get it or not,

2100
01:26:22,000 --> 01:26:23,920
we might have clarification, right?

2101
01:26:23,920 --> 01:26:26,719
>> So like clarification moments. So I

2102
01:26:26,719 --> 01:26:26,960
think

2103
01:26:26,960 --> 01:26:28,639
>> so 10 to 15 minutes there

2104
01:26:28,639 --> 01:26:35,189
>> by 7:45 we can get into actual handling.

2105
01:26:35,199 --> 01:26:35,600
Yeah.

2106
01:26:35,600 --> 01:26:37,120
>> Yeah. 15.

2107
01:26:37,120 --> 01:26:38,719
>> 10 to 15. I mean maybe we'll take that

2108
01:26:38,719 --> 01:26:40,080
long but yeah.

2109
01:26:40,080 --> 01:26:42,719
>> I say 15, right? We got the

2110
01:26:42,719 --> 01:26:45,040
>> I have I have a question. I'm I don't

2111
01:26:45,040 --> 01:26:46,480
know that I'm advocating for this, but

2112
01:26:46,480 --> 01:26:47,840
I'm just wondering if this seems to be

2113
01:26:47,840 --> 01:26:49,360
part of this discussion. So, we talk

2114
01:26:49,360 --> 01:26:51,120
about like our interest in the

2115
01:26:51,120 --> 01:26:52,719
hundredyear statement and how to put

2116
01:26:52,719 --> 01:26:55,600
some of that in some respect into here.

2117
01:26:55,600 --> 01:26:57,199
Um and then we're talking about how to

2118
01:26:57,199 --> 01:26:59,840
put our values that we're gathering, you

2119
01:26:59,840 --> 01:27:02,239
know, again, somehow into this into some

2120
01:27:02,239 --> 01:27:03,440
statement.

2121
01:27:03,440 --> 01:27:06,159
>> Where does the community benefits? I

2122
01:27:06,159 --> 01:27:08,400
think there and that values is that

2123
01:27:08,400 --> 01:27:09,840
that's that's what I'm that's sort of

2124
01:27:09,840 --> 01:27:12,000
what I'm calling the values is values

2125
01:27:12,000 --> 01:27:13,679
slashbenefits that you like things that

2126
01:27:13,679 --> 01:27:16,080
you want to see right like and I think

2127
01:27:16,080 --> 01:27:17,440
that some people are like some people

2128
01:27:17,440 --> 01:27:19,120
are saying affordability right so like

2129
01:27:19,120 --> 01:27:20,719
that's a benefit that we would want to

2130
01:27:20,719 --> 01:27:22,320
see is affordability

2131
01:27:22,320 --> 01:27:23,440
>> so use our values

2132
01:27:23,440 --> 01:27:25,679
>> a benefit would be sustainability a

2133
01:27:25,679 --> 01:27:27,440
benefit would be connectivity

2134
01:27:27,440 --> 01:27:29,679
>> safe or complete streets right like

2135
01:27:29,679 --> 01:27:31,040
those would be the benefits that we want

2136
01:27:31,040 --> 01:27:32,639
to see from something

2137
01:27:32,639 --> 01:27:34,320
>> okay thank you I needed in my mind to

2138
01:27:34,320 --> 01:27:36,080
get to where that organization request.

2139
01:27:36,080 --> 01:27:36,960
Thank you.

2140
01:27:36,960 --> 01:27:46,870
>> So if you if you use if you look at the guide that came for the CBO and the

2141
01:27:46,880 --> 01:27:49,120
» All right. If if you use the guide that

2142
01:27:49,120 --> 01:27:53,280
was provided in the in the book, right?

2143
01:27:53,280 --> 01:27:54,719
>> Or

2144
01:27:54,719 --> 01:27:58,639
>> try to relate the the the benefits to to

2145
01:27:58,639 --> 01:28:01,600
that uh structure to have big.

2146
01:28:01,600 --> 01:28:04,159
>> Okay. Um that way it gives us a

2147
01:28:04,159 --> 01:28:06,320
framework for explaining how those

2148
01:28:06,320 --> 01:28:08,800
values have meaning to the to the

2149
01:28:08,800 --> 01:28:10,880
developer when they read the park.

2150
01:28:10,880 --> 01:28:15,360
>> Okay. Thank you. Putting those things.

2151
01:28:15,360 --> 01:28:17,840
>> So that's looking by like 7:50 of each

2152
01:28:17,840 --> 01:28:19,760
meeting. However, we about to use these

2153
01:28:19,760 --> 01:28:21,120
last

2154
01:28:21,120 --> 01:28:22,639
>> it look like we're going to have a good

2155
01:28:22,639 --> 01:28:24,560
hour or so to really transition to get

2156
01:28:24,560 --> 01:28:36,870
to work.

2157
01:28:36,880 --> 01:28:38,880
Have we

2158
01:28:38,880 --> 01:28:40,560
>> have we've reviewed the like are we

2159
01:28:40,560 --> 01:28:42,400
leaving room for reviewing the RFQ at

2160
01:28:42,400 --> 01:28:46,390
all?

2161
01:28:46,400 --> 01:28:47,760
I mean, I guess the question also

2162
01:28:47,760 --> 01:28:50,639
becomes like with with the rest of it

2163
01:28:50,639 --> 01:28:52,080
because a lot of it is regulatory,

2164
01:28:52,080 --> 01:28:53,920
right? Like a lot of it's like apply by

2165
01:28:53,920 --> 01:28:55,760
this time, do this time, like right like

2166
01:28:55,760 --> 01:28:57,679
it's a lot of that sort of structure and

2167
01:28:57,679 --> 01:28:59,520
I'm happy for you guys to edit it or

2168
01:28:59,520 --> 01:29:01,679
make changes. I just haven't gotten a

2169
01:29:01,679 --> 01:29:03,679
lot of that yet. Uh in the other

2170
01:29:03,679 --> 01:29:06,159
document, um I did get a couple, but

2171
01:29:06,159 --> 01:29:08,320
then now we have a new document that AKT

2172
01:29:08,320 --> 01:29:10,000
has gone through and I I feel like it's

2173
01:29:10,000 --> 01:29:12,400
a lot more solid than the previous

2174
01:29:12,400 --> 01:29:14,880
document. And I'm happy again I'm happy

2175
01:29:14,880 --> 01:29:16,159
to send it out for you guys to give me

2176
01:29:16,159 --> 01:29:18,159
as much feedback as you want to give me.

2177
01:29:18,159 --> 01:29:19,760
I'm just not getting a lot of that. And

2178
01:29:19,760 --> 01:29:22,400
so and then we add review RFQ to every

2179
01:29:22,400 --> 01:29:23,760
agenda and then we

2180
01:29:23,760 --> 01:29:26,239
>> I have to do it things to review in the

2181
01:29:26,239 --> 01:29:27,840
RFQ if we have time to talk about

2182
01:29:27,840 --> 01:29:29,360
reviewing the RFQ.

2183
01:29:29,360 --> 01:29:32,239
>> Let's do it.

2184
01:29:32,239 --> 01:29:35,840
>> Um I want to talk about 8.0 city vision

2185
01:29:35,840 --> 01:29:41,189
and goals.

2186
01:29:41,199 --> 01:29:46,709
» It's page 22.

2187
01:29:46,719 --> 01:29:50,310
on the package.

2188
01:29:50,320 --> 01:29:53,760
» Okay. Um it says committee needs to

2189
01:29:53,760 --> 01:29:56,080
provide overall vision uh for water

2190
01:29:56,080 --> 01:29:59,120
street. I would suggest including design

2191
01:29:59,120 --> 01:30:01,440
types that the committee does not want

2192
01:30:01,440 --> 01:30:04,719
to see. Uh we are requesting a

2193
01:30:04,719 --> 01:30:06,960
conceptual design approach as part of

2194
01:30:06,960 --> 01:30:09,520
the submitt. So we need to make sure

2195
01:30:09,520 --> 01:30:11,600
this section is cleared. So, the

2196
01:30:11,600 --> 01:30:15,120
information provided meet items. Okay.

2197
01:30:15,120 --> 01:30:19,120
And so, it's asking us to name some

2198
01:30:19,120 --> 01:30:22,320
things that we don't want. And I have a

2199
01:30:22,320 --> 01:30:27,280
list of them. And so, I don't want any

2200
01:30:27,280 --> 01:30:31,040
industrial uses on the site.

2201
01:30:31,040 --> 01:30:33,920
Uh, I don't want any traditional

2202
01:30:33,920 --> 01:30:37,679
one-story strip malls. I don't want big

2203
01:30:37,679 --> 01:30:41,360
box stores. I don't want standal

2204
01:30:41,360 --> 01:30:43,600
standalone drive-thru restaurants like

2205
01:30:43,600 --> 01:30:47,600
Burger King because drive-throughs

2206
01:30:47,600 --> 01:30:51,040
uh contribute to sprawl and create a lot

2207
01:30:51,040 --> 01:30:52,719
of

2208
01:30:52,719 --> 01:30:55,920
like circulation problems.

2209
01:30:55,920 --> 01:30:58,639
Um

2210
01:30:58,639 --> 01:31:00,560
that's my list. I And you know what?

2211
01:31:00,560 --> 01:31:03,360
I'll also add

2212
01:31:03,360 --> 01:31:06,159
detached single family housing.

2213
01:31:06,159 --> 01:31:07,600
>> Yeah. You say the second and third one

2214
01:31:07,600 --> 01:31:10,080
again. I got the industrial type which I

2215
01:31:10,080 --> 01:31:11,520
agree

2216
01:31:11,520 --> 01:31:13,440
>> the traditional one. I mean

2217
01:31:13,440 --> 01:31:14,719
>> yeah I missed the second one too.

2218
01:31:14,719 --> 01:31:16,159
Industrial

2219
01:31:16,159 --> 01:31:17,120
>> story strip

2220
01:31:17,120 --> 01:31:18,080
>> one story

2221
01:31:18,080 --> 01:31:22,310
>> which I agree to

2222
01:31:22,320 --> 01:31:24,239
big box stores.

2223
01:31:24,239 --> 01:31:25,760
>> What's that? That's what I got.

2224
01:31:25,760 --> 01:31:32,709
>> That's like Walmart

2225
01:31:32,719 --> 01:31:38,950
» grocery store.

2226
01:31:38,960 --> 01:31:40,639
Can you talk a little bit more about

2227
01:31:40,639 --> 01:31:44,400
what you mean by industrial? There are

2228
01:31:44,400 --> 01:31:47,760
industrial zonings that are defined.

2229
01:31:47,760 --> 01:31:49,199
There's light industrial, heavy

2230
01:31:49,199 --> 01:31:51,199
industrial. Depending on the nature of

2231
01:31:51,199 --> 01:31:53,199
where you are and what they value, they

2232
01:31:53,199 --> 01:31:55,040
might describe it differently. If

2233
01:31:55,040 --> 01:31:56,719
someone wanted to make

2234
01:31:56,719 --> 01:31:58,080
>> I'm okay with light industrial.

2235
01:31:58,080 --> 01:31:59,520
>> Make cabinets.

2236
01:31:59,520 --> 01:32:02,080
>> Yes, I'm okay with light industrial. So

2237
01:32:02,080 --> 01:32:03,760
I actually think that needs to be

2238
01:32:03,760 --> 01:32:06,159
explored in detail before it gets sort

2239
01:32:06,159 --> 01:32:08,719
of the heavy sledgehammer of no

2240
01:32:08,719 --> 01:32:09,520
industrial.

2241
01:32:09,520 --> 01:32:11,440
>> Sure. I agree.

2242
01:32:11,440 --> 01:32:14,639
>> So what is the land

2243
01:32:14,639 --> 01:32:16,719
>> center district?

2244
01:32:16,719 --> 01:32:17,840
>> I'm sorry.

2245
01:32:17,840 --> 01:32:20,719
>> Center district and there are overlays I

2246
01:32:20,719 --> 01:32:30,310
was looking at right now. I don't feel

2247
01:32:30,320 --> 01:32:31,760
» I don't know if this is included in the

2248
01:32:31,760 --> 01:32:34,320
one-story commercial like strip mall,

2249
01:32:34,320 --> 01:32:36,159
but that just that there would be no

2250
01:32:36,159 --> 01:32:38,239
parking lots, you know, that there would

2251
01:32:38,239 --> 01:32:40,800
be storefronts or or buildings directly

2252
01:32:40,800 --> 01:32:42,560
on the sidewalk to make it safer for

2253
01:32:42,560 --> 01:32:45,199
pedestrians and also snap houses if we

2254
01:32:45,199 --> 01:32:47,040
do have single family homes, but they're

2255
01:32:47,040 --> 01:32:48,880
not like garage for extra square

2256
01:32:48,880 --> 01:32:52,400
footage. Uh uh

2257
01:32:52,400 --> 01:32:54,560
that yeah that pedestrian space is

2258
01:32:54,560 --> 01:32:57,360
centered on on sidewalks.

2259
01:32:57,360 --> 01:32:59,280
I don't know what the fancy

2260
01:32:59,280 --> 01:33:01,600
architectural term

2261
01:33:01,600 --> 01:33:04,320
>> now houses. Yeah, they're the ones you

2262
01:33:04,320 --> 01:33:07,199
it's in those McMansion and they have

2263
01:33:07,199 --> 01:33:14,310
like the garage

2264
01:33:14,320 --> 01:33:16,719
here houses there sometimes. It's pretty

2265
01:33:16,719 --> 01:33:18,960
hard to zone against a snout house. I

2266
01:33:18,960 --> 01:33:20,719
mean, you could I shouldn't say that you

2267
01:33:20,719 --> 01:33:23,199
can zone against them, but that's how

2268
01:33:23,199 --> 01:33:25,120
you do it. You structure your zoning

2269
01:33:25,120 --> 01:33:26,719
codes and not allow a garage, for

2270
01:33:26,719 --> 01:33:29,440
example, in your front yard. And there

2271
01:33:29,440 --> 01:33:32,400
are ways of doing it also in terms of

2272
01:33:32,400 --> 01:33:35,840
the proportions of a property

2273
01:33:35,840 --> 01:33:39,440
will demand that the garage gets sent to

2274
01:33:39,440 --> 01:33:41,360
the rear. But that's a really important

2275
01:33:41,360 --> 01:33:43,679
thing to me because one of the best ways

2276
01:33:43,679 --> 01:33:47,199
of dealing with that is designing blocks

2277
01:33:47,199 --> 01:33:50,080
with the alleys. That's how you get the

2278
01:33:50,080 --> 01:33:51,840
garage in the back in an urban

2279
01:33:51,840 --> 01:33:52,880
environment.

2280
01:33:52,880 --> 01:33:56,000
>> And that's exactly how

2281
01:33:56,000 --> 01:33:58,000
got to point in the right direction. All

2282
01:33:58,000 --> 01:34:00,639
of those blocks work. That's how those

2283
01:34:00,639 --> 01:34:02,719
blocks would have worked. That is how

2284
01:34:02,719 --> 01:34:04,880
those blocks do work. They all have

2285
01:34:04,880 --> 01:34:06,719
alleys.

2286
01:34:06,719 --> 01:34:07,920
All of them.

2287
01:34:07,920 --> 01:34:11,120
>> But uh are

2288
01:34:11,120 --> 01:34:13,760
>> now the city by the way isn't that happy

2289
01:34:13,760 --> 01:34:15,360
with alleys

2290
01:34:15,360 --> 01:34:17,840
>> and we're what we are doing in vision

2291
01:34:17,840 --> 01:34:22,480
and goals then do we say we want

2292
01:34:22,480 --> 01:34:24,080
pedestrian

2293
01:34:24,080 --> 01:34:26,320
centered design

2294
01:34:26,320 --> 01:34:31,520
rather than trying to make the the codes

2295
01:34:31,520 --> 01:34:37,030
or are we doing

2296
01:34:37,040 --> 01:34:41,910
Right.

2297
01:34:41,920 --> 01:34:43,520
» I think it depends on what you're

2298
01:34:43,520 --> 01:34:45,600
asking. If it's you're asking something

2299
01:34:45,600 --> 01:34:49,360
that would be perhaps illegal, then then

2300
01:34:49,360 --> 01:34:52,480
it would have to be as as uh he said

2301
01:34:52,480 --> 01:34:54,000
that would have to be changed in the

2302
01:34:54,000 --> 01:34:55,520
zoning ordinance.

2303
01:34:55,520 --> 01:34:57,280
>> But the developer is going to read this

2304
01:34:57,280 --> 01:34:59,280
section and go, "Okay, they don't want

2305
01:34:59,280 --> 01:35:01,440
all these things.

2306
01:35:01,440 --> 01:35:03,840
I'm going to come with a different

2307
01:35:03,840 --> 01:35:05,120
solution." They're not going to come

2308
01:35:05,120 --> 01:35:07,679
with those solutions.

2309
01:35:07,679 --> 01:35:09,440
make make sure that they're not going to

2310
01:35:09,440 --> 01:35:11,199
look for loopholes. That's where I I

2311
01:35:11,199 --> 01:35:13,199
feel like code and I mean we're going to

2312
01:35:13,199 --> 01:35:15,360
protected right

2313
01:35:15,360 --> 01:35:17,040
>> just so that's straightforward. That's

2314
01:35:17,040 --> 01:35:20,239
where okay we could do the code but then

2315
01:35:20,239 --> 01:35:23,520
>> to be to drive it home because we want

2316
01:35:23,520 --> 01:35:28,070
five you know friendly pedestrian

2317
01:35:28,080 --> 01:35:30,480
» you define some other version of the

2318
01:35:30,480 --> 01:35:39,270
house. um you know explicit

2319
01:35:39,280 --> 01:35:41,040
» and there must be kind of like some way

2320
01:35:41,040 --> 01:35:43,360
to do this because like I know down in

2321
01:35:43,360 --> 01:35:46,880
like field sorry it's not hipsy but like

2322
01:35:46,880 --> 01:35:48,960
they're demanding more greenways and

2323
01:35:48,960 --> 01:35:50,719
bike lanes with all their developments.

2324
01:35:50,719 --> 01:35:52,480
So they're doing something to ask for

2325
01:35:52,480 --> 01:35:55,040
that like Dallas with your concept of

2326
01:35:55,040 --> 01:35:57,199
the complete streets and the desire for

2327
01:35:57,199 --> 01:36:00,320
walkability. It's like I would really

2328
01:36:00,320 --> 01:36:02,400
hope that any development puts

2329
01:36:02,400 --> 01:36:05,679
sidewalks, a bike lane, and treeine

2330
01:36:05,679 --> 01:36:07,679
streets just for, you know what I mean?

2331
01:36:07,679 --> 01:36:08,560
But I don't know, maybe that's already

2332
01:36:08,560 --> 01:36:11,520
redundant to what you guys really.

2333
01:36:11,520 --> 01:36:13,679
>> No, I mean, I think that that's, you

2334
01:36:13,679 --> 01:36:15,760
know, Jeremy put this in here, right?

2335
01:36:15,760 --> 01:36:17,360
Like from AKT and so I think that like

2336
01:36:17,360 --> 01:36:18,719
it's valuable to say the things we don't

2337
01:36:18,719 --> 01:36:20,239
want to see, but I think it's just as

2338
01:36:20,239 --> 01:36:22,159
valuable to say the things that we do

2339
01:36:22,159 --> 01:36:24,639
want to see, right? Like that's it's

2340
01:36:24,639 --> 01:36:26,400
just two ways of looking at at the

2341
01:36:26,400 --> 01:36:28,159
world, right? And so I think that saying

2342
01:36:28,159 --> 01:36:29,679
we want complete streets, things like

2343
01:36:29,679 --> 01:36:33,440
that is is valuable in in in explaining

2344
01:36:33,440 --> 01:36:35,840
what we want for a development

2345
01:36:35,840 --> 01:36:38,080
for sure.

2346
01:36:38,080 --> 01:36:40,400
>> Uh I agree with not wanting all of those

2347
01:36:40,400 --> 01:36:43,760
things except for detached single family

2348
01:36:43,760 --> 01:36:47,360
housing. I could probably be swayed, but

2349
01:36:47,360 --> 01:36:49,679
you just mean an independent house,

2350
01:36:49,679 --> 01:36:50,639
right?

2351
01:36:50,639 --> 01:36:54,320
>> Mhm. Yes. I I suppose

2352
01:36:54,320 --> 01:36:57,280
I could be swayed. Yeah. Like Dorsy

2353
01:36:57,280 --> 01:37:00,320
estate has single family houses and it's

2354
01:37:00,320 --> 01:37:04,560
at a density level that I think is

2355
01:37:04,560 --> 01:37:07,600
>> pretty good for being single family.

2356
01:37:07,600 --> 01:37:13,119
>> I just like that it feels more natural

2357
01:37:13,119 --> 01:37:15,199
I think to have different different

2358
01:37:15,199 --> 01:37:16,400
types like you said different

2359
01:37:16,400 --> 01:37:19,280
construction diversity and construction

2360
01:37:19,280 --> 01:37:22,719
use or something. I don't know if that's

2361
01:37:22,719 --> 01:37:25,600
>> but yeah saying like little house next

2362
01:37:25,600 --> 01:37:28,400
to an apartment building next to a store

2363
01:37:28,400 --> 01:37:30,320
is nice

2364
01:37:30,320 --> 01:37:32,000
of core organic you know how to use a

2365
01:37:32,000 --> 01:37:33,920
grow

2366
01:37:33,920 --> 01:37:36,719
again attracts different economic levels

2367
01:37:36,719 --> 01:37:39,280
and then we bring those together

2368
01:37:39,280 --> 01:37:41,280
and like the idea of it being a mixture

2369
01:37:41,280 --> 01:37:42,880
again I I I don't know if anyone's

2370
01:37:42,880 --> 01:37:44,400
familiar with a rental station in

2371
01:37:44,400 --> 01:37:47,360
Portland this it was this just complete

2372
01:37:47,360 --> 01:37:48,960
development that was done all in one

2373
01:37:48,960 --> 01:37:51,119
piece and made Yeah, like it is called.

2374
01:37:51,119 --> 01:37:53,840
So, there are you little town houses or

2375
01:37:53,840 --> 01:37:57,280
single family homes. There are um uh

2376
01:37:57,280 --> 01:38:00,719
condos and it's all along the the train

2377
01:38:00,719 --> 01:38:02,960
line. Uh so, it's like, you know, 10

2378
01:38:02,960 --> 01:38:06,159
minutes instead of downtown Portland. Um

2379
01:38:06,159 --> 01:38:08,159
and then they have like the equivalent

2380
01:38:08,159 --> 01:38:10,400
of time here, like a little the grocery

2381
01:38:10,400 --> 01:38:12,400
store, but it's like

2382
01:38:12,400 --> 01:38:14,239
and there's apartments above I think

2383
01:38:14,239 --> 01:38:15,760
that kind of thing. And then there's the

2384
01:38:15,760 --> 01:38:17,440
meeting space in the middle. It's all

2385
01:38:17,440 --> 01:38:19,760
very walkable and bikable and it was

2386
01:38:19,760 --> 01:38:21,280
literally designed like all in one

2387
01:38:21,280 --> 01:38:24,080
chunk, right? But it looks like you like

2388
01:38:24,080 --> 01:38:25,840
the walking which is one thing I think I

2389
01:38:25,840 --> 01:38:28,000
love about Ipsy, right? You see these

2390
01:38:28,000 --> 01:38:29,520
huge mansions but then there'll be a

2391
01:38:29,520 --> 01:38:31,600
little little piece of home and then

2392
01:38:31,600 --> 01:38:33,440
there'll be a part. I love all of that

2393
01:38:33,440 --> 01:38:36,880
mix together.

2394
01:38:36,880 --> 01:38:39,920
So you said you had more than one

2395
01:38:39,920 --> 01:38:46,229
or that was only things you had.

2396
01:38:46,239 --> 01:38:48,880
» I I those were the things that I didn't

2397
01:38:48,880 --> 01:38:53,360
want. I had goals for the city. I How

2398
01:38:53,360 --> 01:38:55,199
are we recording everything that's being

2399
01:38:55,199 --> 01:38:56,480
said right now? Are you like

2400
01:38:56,480 --> 01:38:57,760
>> I'm writing minutes, but I'm also

2401
01:38:57,760 --> 01:38:59,280
recording the meeting. So, I'll go back

2402
01:38:59,280 --> 01:39:05,360
and listen to the the meeting as well to make sure I didn't miss things

2403
01:39:05,360 --> 01:39:10,470
because I'm also doing other things.

2404
01:39:10,480 --> 01:39:11,040
» Yeah,

2405
01:39:11,040 --> 01:39:13,040
>> you you you

2406
01:39:13,040 --> 01:39:13,679
gestured.

2407
01:39:13,679 --> 01:39:15,199
>> I I was reading something here. I was

2408
01:39:15,199 --> 01:39:16,480
trying to look up the development that

2409
01:39:16,480 --> 01:39:18,159
Diana was talking about and I misspelled

2410
01:39:18,159 --> 01:39:18,960
it. So, I'm like,

2411
01:39:18,960 --> 01:39:24,709
>> it's a weird name. O R E N The O.

2412
01:39:24,719 --> 01:39:26,880
We have about 15 minutes and we have two

2413
01:39:26,880 --> 01:39:29,119
more things to get through.

2414
01:39:29,119 --> 01:39:31,840
>> Actually trying to email them about I

2415
01:39:31,840 --> 01:39:35,119
don't know maybe somebody else.

2416
01:39:35,119 --> 01:39:37,040
>> Oh yeah.

2417
01:39:37,040 --> 01:39:38,320
>> Two more things.

2418
01:39:38,320 --> 01:39:40,320
>> We got one more scheduled meeting that's

2419
01:39:40,320 --> 01:39:41,040
scheduled. Right.

2420
01:39:41,040 --> 01:39:42,560
>> We have an August meeting so we can also

2421
01:39:42,560 --> 01:39:44,159
talk about dates then if we want to put

2422
01:39:44,159 --> 01:39:48,390
it off. own

2423
01:39:48,400 --> 01:39:51,760
the next meeting so we can focus on

2424
01:39:51,760 --> 01:39:53,840
the story about our last 15 minutes

2425
01:39:53,840 --> 01:39:58,320
here. Anybody disagree? I mean,

2426
01:39:58,320 --> 01:40:03,920
>> show me show me a hand or show the hand.

2427
01:40:03,920 --> 01:40:07,840
>> Talk about future mayor, the next

2428
01:40:07,840 --> 01:40:10,800
still talk about the Michigan travel

2429
01:40:10,800 --> 01:40:11,280
stuff,

2430
01:40:11,280 --> 01:40:14,239
>> right?

2431
01:40:14,239 --> 01:40:16,880
Can I share my goals though real quick

2432
01:40:16,880 --> 01:40:19,199
first?

2433
01:40:19,199 --> 01:40:25,270
>> I ask you a man and a dog.

2434
01:40:25,280 --> 01:40:28,960
» My my goal is again under bullet eight.

2435
01:40:28,960 --> 01:40:32,080
Create a third high density walkable

2436
01:40:32,080 --> 01:40:33,760
district and walking distance to

2437
01:40:33,760 --> 01:40:36,400
downtown and depot town. Create a

2438
01:40:36,400 --> 01:40:38,480
straight shot pedestrian connection from

2439
01:40:38,480 --> 01:40:40,960
Waterworks Park to River Street.

2440
01:40:40,960 --> 01:40:43,119
Initiate development that snowballs the

2441
01:40:43,119 --> 01:40:45,679
future development of the site. Balance

2442
01:40:45,679 --> 01:40:47,280
community benefits with taxable

2443
01:40:47,280 --> 01:40:49,679
development. Develop in a historically

2444
01:40:49,679 --> 01:40:52,639
relevant manner. And increase available

2445
01:40:52,639 --> 01:40:54,639
housing

2446
01:40:54,639 --> 01:41:00,390
x number affordable question mark.

2447
01:41:00,400 --> 01:41:02,080
» Well, and maybe it's better than that,

2448
01:41:02,080 --> 01:41:04,639
right? Like I I the X I'm just thinking

2449
01:41:04,639 --> 01:41:05,920
like

2450
01:41:05,920 --> 01:41:08,000
>> I don't know if we know that number,

2451
01:41:08,000 --> 01:41:08,480
>> right? Yeah,

2452
01:41:08,480 --> 01:41:10,239
>> like I think it is that number because I

2453
01:41:10,239 --> 01:41:11,760
think that

2454
01:41:11,760 --> 01:41:13,119
>> well I don't know if we do. I guess

2455
01:41:13,119 --> 01:41:15,360
that's my point is do we want a number

2456
01:41:15,360 --> 01:41:17,119
in a concept, right? Like I think that

2457
01:41:17,119 --> 01:41:19,119
like the that will like that's literally

2458
01:41:19,119 --> 01:41:21,440
the devil in the details that

2459
01:41:21,440 --> 01:41:25,600
>> maybe it's a percentage. Yeah,

2460
01:41:25,600 --> 01:41:27,280
>> speaking I was worried but you know in

2461
01:41:27,280 --> 01:41:28,800
terms of how people get along and it's

2462
01:41:28,800 --> 01:41:30,560
totally diverse, you know, I would want

2463
01:41:30,560 --> 01:41:33,520
there to be a large percentage of

2464
01:41:33,520 --> 01:41:35,280
affordable housing. I'm not really 100%

2465
01:41:35,280 --> 01:41:36,560
sure what that would be and maybe I

2466
01:41:36,560 --> 01:41:37,760
could do research like what did they do

2467
01:41:37,760 --> 01:41:40,480
like an island that feels

2468
01:41:40,480 --> 01:41:40,800
>> sure

2469
01:41:40,800 --> 01:41:43,760
>> like everybody's is it 10% is it 20 I

2470
01:41:43,760 --> 01:41:45,040
don't know

2471
01:41:45,040 --> 01:41:46,239
>> I just wonder if that's something that

2472
01:41:46,239 --> 01:41:48,880
we would negotiate further into the as

2473
01:41:48,880 --> 01:41:51,760
they start to pencil out a a concept

2474
01:41:51,760 --> 01:41:54,080
right as we get something where this

2475
01:41:54,080 --> 01:41:55,840
isn't that quite that stage yet that's

2476
01:41:55,840 --> 01:41:58,320
the one thought I'm think that I have

2477
01:41:58,320 --> 01:42:00,400
advocate I got you if I was advocating

2478
01:42:00,400 --> 01:42:03,440
for the developer I'll be like hey let

2479
01:42:03,440 --> 01:42:05,199
me give y'all awesome ideas so that we

2480
01:42:05,199 --> 01:42:07,520
can bounce with too. So like he that's

2481
01:42:07,520 --> 01:42:09,040
why I think the variable was the X,

2482
01:42:09,040 --> 01:42:10,800
right?

2483
01:42:10,800 --> 01:42:13,119
>> Yeah. Just we should include affordable

2484
01:42:13,119 --> 01:42:13,600
housing.

2485
01:42:13,600 --> 01:42:14,960
>> Yes. But that it should be there for

2486
01:42:14,960 --> 01:42:17,119
sure.

2487
01:42:17,119 --> 01:42:19,920
>> So the last Thank you. Uh the last time

2488
01:42:19,920 --> 01:42:25,119
we had a developer uh engaged um

2489
01:42:25,119 --> 01:42:27,119
a lot of these things came up and were

2490
01:42:27,119 --> 01:42:29,119
included in that. So if you look at that

2491
01:42:29,119 --> 01:42:33,119
and and how that plan looked, you can

2492
01:42:33,119 --> 01:42:34,719
see what some of that stuff looks like.

2493
01:42:34,719 --> 01:42:36,719
But it also became a tripping point in

2494
01:42:36,719 --> 01:42:38,560
the conversation with the developer

2495
01:42:38,560 --> 01:42:45,440
because when it came time for uh

2496
01:42:45,440 --> 01:42:47,520
the discussion of what percentage should

2497
01:42:47,520 --> 01:42:51,440
be affordable housing uh you know there

2498
01:42:51,440 --> 01:42:54,560
were numbers that were presented and the

2499
01:42:54,560 --> 01:42:56,960
developer I'm not saying that all

2500
01:42:56,960 --> 01:42:58,480
developers would do this because this

2501
01:42:58,480 --> 01:43:00,719
particular developer was not

2502
01:43:00,719 --> 01:43:03,679
particularly responsive to what we're

2503
01:43:03,679 --> 01:43:05,600
talking there were on certain level but

2504
01:43:05,600 --> 01:43:07,600
the head guy was just kind of dismissive

2505
01:43:07,600 --> 01:43:10,639
of a lot of things and when we hit 20%

2506
01:43:10,639 --> 01:43:12,880
he's like economically unfeasible we

2507
01:43:12,880 --> 01:43:15,840
can't do it end of story and and we're

2508
01:43:15,840 --> 01:43:18,239
like and that fell apart for other

2509
01:43:18,239 --> 01:43:20,400
reasons but just just so you know there

2510
01:43:20,400 --> 01:43:24,000
were they're defining what we want

2511
01:43:24,000 --> 01:43:26,719
defining what our fallback point is is a

2512
01:43:26,719 --> 01:43:28,639
good way to look at that because

2513
01:43:28,639 --> 01:43:31,199
>> you know those are you know Ann Arbor

2514
01:43:31,199 --> 01:43:33,679
has you know certain certain number that

2515
01:43:33,679 --> 01:43:35,280
hasn't happen in every development,

2516
01:43:35,280 --> 01:43:37,760
those kinds of things. So, it's doable,

2517
01:43:37,760 --> 01:43:41,119
but um you know, have some numbers that

2518
01:43:41,119 --> 01:43:43,040
you're that you're targeting and what

2519
01:43:43,040 --> 01:43:45,600
you're willing to accept.

2520
01:43:45,600 --> 01:43:47,440
>> We've been down this road,

2521
01:43:47,440 --> 01:43:48,239
>> right?

2522
01:43:48,239 --> 01:43:50,000
>> But

2523
01:43:50,000 --> 01:43:52,239
sometimes the number isn't an absolute

2524
01:43:52,239 --> 01:43:53,840
number. It's a percentage of the

2525
01:43:53,840 --> 01:43:54,400
project,

2526
01:43:54,400 --> 01:43:54,639
>> right?

2527
01:43:54,639 --> 01:43:56,800
>> Sure. And so

2528
01:43:56,800 --> 01:43:59,600
if you were to say we want pick a number

2529
01:43:59,600 --> 01:44:02,719
20 affordable housing units and they're

2530
01:44:02,719 --> 01:44:06,639
only building 30 units that's one thing

2531
01:44:06,639 --> 01:44:08,159
but if it's 20 units and they're

2532
01:44:08,159 --> 01:44:11,119
building 200 units that's another thing.

2533
01:44:11,119 --> 01:44:13,280
So the percentages matter and this is

2534
01:44:13,280 --> 01:44:14,960
why

2535
01:44:14,960 --> 01:44:17,360
Joe's presentation is based on $150

2536
01:44:17,360 --> 01:44:20,239
million investment where he started out

2537
01:44:20,239 --> 01:44:24,159
by saying it could be $450 million

2538
01:44:24,159 --> 01:44:25,840
and that's true

2539
01:44:25,840 --> 01:44:27,280
>> and we could have a developer who wants

2540
01:44:27,280 --> 01:44:29,040
to do housing and another developer

2541
01:44:29,040 --> 01:44:31,679
who's going to do commercial and right

2542
01:44:31,679 --> 01:44:33,840
like and then and then that's put like

2543
01:44:33,840 --> 01:44:35,360
putting that percentage in there or

2544
01:44:35,360 --> 01:44:37,840
somebody may I've actually spoken with a

2545
01:44:37,840 --> 01:44:39,679
developer recently who's talking about

2546
01:44:39,679 --> 01:44:41,840
doing scen senior housing, right? And so

2547
01:44:41,840 --> 01:44:43,119
like if they're doing senior housing and

2548
01:44:43,119 --> 01:44:45,600
it's but maybe it's I'm not saying it's

2549
01:44:45,600 --> 01:44:47,199
unaffordable, but maybe it's not in the

2550
01:44:47,199 --> 01:44:48,960
affordable

2551
01:44:48,960 --> 01:44:51,199
category or it's different. I don't know

2552
01:44:51,199 --> 01:44:53,360
if if it's a different benefit of

2553
01:44:53,360 --> 01:44:55,840
something that we do need, then how do

2554
01:44:55,840 --> 01:44:57,600
we weigh, right? Like I I just don't

2555
01:44:57,600 --> 01:44:58,880
have a concept of how we would weigh

2556
01:44:58,880 --> 01:45:00,000
that versus

2557
01:45:00,000 --> 01:45:02,080
>> that that brings up something that um

2558
01:45:02,080 --> 01:45:04,480
hasn't been brought up before.

2559
01:45:04,480 --> 01:45:06,480
something I'm sensitive to that I want

2560
01:45:06,480 --> 01:45:11,840
to share is there's a concept of housing

2561
01:45:11,840 --> 01:45:14,719
which we have used liberally

2562
01:45:14,719 --> 01:45:17,679
um and then you get into developers who

2563
01:45:17,679 --> 01:45:20,080
specialize and they'll talk about senior

2564
01:45:20,080 --> 01:45:24,639
housing or student housing or other

2565
01:45:24,639 --> 01:45:27,920
kinds of housing and I have been

2566
01:45:27,920 --> 01:45:29,920
involved in construction for a long time

2567
01:45:29,920 --> 01:45:34,000
and I say okay it's senior housing and I

2568
01:45:34,000 --> 01:45:35,600
live there, too. Can you live there,

2569
01:45:35,600 --> 01:45:38,480
too? Why not? Of course, you could live

2570
01:45:38,480 --> 01:45:40,320
there, too. You can physically use those

2571
01:45:40,320 --> 01:45:44,880
spaces, but they're gearing it toward

2572
01:45:44,880 --> 01:45:46,880
market. And they might do make subtle

2573
01:45:46,880 --> 01:45:49,520
changes. And those subtle changes,

2574
01:45:49,520 --> 01:45:51,440
there's there's a real common one in Ann

2575
01:45:51,440 --> 01:45:55,600
Arbor because of the university. It's a

2576
01:45:55,600 --> 01:45:58,480
basically it's a living unit with six

2577
01:45:58,480 --> 01:46:01,280
bedrooms and they're designed in such a

2578
01:46:01,280 --> 01:46:02,639
way that the bedrooms have a certain

2579
01:46:02,639 --> 01:46:04,400
autonomy that you can live in that

2580
01:46:04,400 --> 01:46:06,719
bedroom and not or inter you can

2581
01:46:06,719 --> 01:46:08,560
interact or not interact with the other

2582
01:46:08,560 --> 01:46:10,639
six bedrooms and therefore you can

2583
01:46:10,639 --> 01:46:11,920
basically live in a one-bedroom

2584
01:46:11,920 --> 01:46:13,679
apartment with a shared kitchen living

2585
01:46:13,679 --> 01:46:16,239
space independently of your other five

2586
01:46:16,239 --> 01:46:18,080
roommates.

2587
01:46:18,080 --> 01:46:20,719
They're geared for that. That's student

2588
01:46:20,719 --> 01:46:24,000
housing. It makes no sense to a family

2589
01:46:24,000 --> 01:46:26,480
of five children to live in an apartment

2590
01:46:26,480 --> 01:46:29,520
necessarily like that. They may not want

2591
01:46:29,520 --> 01:46:31,679
to buy it and it's economically not in

2592
01:46:31,679 --> 01:46:34,080
that market either. So, we also have to

2593
01:46:34,080 --> 01:46:36,000
be careful of falling into those little

2594
01:46:36,000 --> 01:46:39,360
traps of the kind of housing. I would

2595
01:46:39,360 --> 01:46:42,639
like to argue that we want housing, no

2596
01:46:42,639 --> 01:46:45,840
strings attached. We want it to be

2597
01:46:45,840 --> 01:46:48,159
structured such that many different

2598
01:46:48,159 --> 01:46:50,400
kinds of people can live there and you

2599
01:46:50,400 --> 01:46:51,679
don't have to have a label on your

2600
01:46:51,679 --> 01:46:53,280
forehead

2601
01:46:53,280 --> 01:46:55,440
to be there.

2602
01:46:55,440 --> 01:46:58,000
>> Who's going to get a tattoo?

2603
01:46:58,000 --> 01:46:58,960
>> Unless you've done

2604
01:46:58,960 --> 01:46:59,840
>> all right.

2605
01:46:59,840 --> 01:47:04,080
>> Senior and I turned 65

2606
01:47:04,080 --> 01:47:05,119
minutes.

2607
01:47:05,119 --> 01:47:08,639
>> We got six minutes. Um are we we all are

2608
01:47:08,639 --> 01:47:12,719
in agreeance to putting um item C into

2609
01:47:12,719 --> 01:47:13,679
>> Yeah, we are

2610
01:47:13,679 --> 01:47:14,239
>> next.

2611
01:47:14,239 --> 01:47:17,119
>> Yep.

2612
01:47:17,119 --> 01:47:18,560
Thank you.

2613
01:47:18,560 --> 01:47:20,080
>> Can I ask a question if this is this

2614
01:47:20,080 --> 01:47:22,639
might not be a good idea? Fully preface

2615
01:47:22,639 --> 01:47:25,119
that, but like a lot of these that I

2616
01:47:25,119 --> 01:47:27,520
feel like we're talking about are are

2617
01:47:27,520 --> 01:47:29,280
definitely could be described and

2618
01:47:29,280 --> 01:47:32,719
detailed in words, but could like we as

2619
01:47:32,719 --> 01:47:35,440
a very diverse like committee provide

2620
01:47:35,440 --> 01:47:41,840
some images of what is Ipsy? What and I leave that very open of what is Ipsy?

2621
01:47:41,840 --> 01:47:44,639
If your love of Ipsy is the materiality

2622
01:47:44,639 --> 01:47:46,880
of Depot Town or if your love of Ipsy is

2623
01:47:46,880 --> 01:47:49,199
the kids playing around Cross whatever

2624
01:47:49,199 --> 01:47:51,679
but like is that Katie is that just off

2625
01:47:51,679 --> 01:47:53,119
the mark? Is that almost like two

2626
01:47:53,119 --> 01:47:54,320
community? I was like I feel like

2627
01:47:54,320 --> 01:47:56,880
there's if the developer isn't in here

2628
01:47:56,880 --> 01:47:58,719
can we provide maybe this is something

2629
01:47:58,719 --> 01:48:00,320
we could do as like kind of like a

2630
01:48:00,320 --> 01:48:02,560
committee is provide some images of our

2631
01:48:02,560 --> 01:48:04,800
community that we feel like represent us

2632
01:48:04,800 --> 01:48:16,470
and draw. No, no pictures.

2633
01:48:16,480 --> 01:48:17,280
» I'm saying like

2634
01:48:17,280 --> 01:48:20,080
>> Yes, we're gonna make you draw the the

2635
01:48:20,080 --> 01:48:23,910
cartoon strip.

2636
01:48:23,920 --> 01:48:29,440
» Just do your values next time. Just like nothing other than an aerial view

2637
01:48:29,440 --> 01:48:33,040
of Water Street. There's no images. And

2638
01:48:33,040 --> 01:48:34,719
maybe I'm just that person who likes

2639
01:48:34,719 --> 01:48:36,320
pictures, but I was like, could could we

2640
01:48:36,320 --> 01:48:38,639
like suggest some picture edits of like

2641
01:48:38,639 --> 01:48:41,600
what like Ipsy looks like in here, like

2642
01:48:41,600 --> 01:48:44,239
some added images, or is that just not

2643
01:48:44,239 --> 01:48:45,280
is that kind of privilege?

2644
01:48:45,280 --> 01:48:47,520
>> Is your concern that potential

2645
01:48:47,520 --> 01:48:49,360
developers won't have a feel for the

2646
01:48:49,360 --> 01:48:50,800
community?

2647
01:48:50,800 --> 01:48:52,719
>> I guess so. Although maybe they're all

2648
01:48:52,719 --> 01:48:55,119
local. But I was like, if you you're

2649
01:48:55,119 --> 01:48:56,560
really missing a lot of like the

2650
01:48:56,560 --> 01:48:58,000
diversity that we talk about in

2651
01:48:58,000 --> 01:49:00,560
construction and existing community when

2652
01:49:00,560 --> 01:49:03,119
it's it's just words, right? So I was

2653
01:49:03,119 --> 01:49:04,560
like, what if we all brought in like one

2654
01:49:04,560 --> 01:49:06,080
picture and this could be incorporated

2655
01:49:06,080 --> 01:49:09,119
into it and kind of prefaced as the

2656
01:49:09,119 --> 01:49:10,880
pictures were compiled and shared as

2657
01:49:10,880 --> 01:49:12,719
like images of Ipsy for you to

2658
01:49:12,719 --> 01:49:14,560
understand our community or something,

2659
01:49:14,560 --> 01:49:16,000
you know? Is that something if if people

2660
01:49:16,000 --> 01:49:17,679
don't like the idea? No problem.

2661
01:49:17,679 --> 01:49:19,760
>> Bring more warmth to this kind of stuff.

2662
01:49:19,760 --> 01:49:21,679
I I just think that boards are only

2663
01:49:21,679 --> 01:49:24,719
going to take the option of diversity in

2664
01:49:24,719 --> 01:49:27,679
housing, diversity or complete streets.

2665
01:49:27,679 --> 01:49:29,840
Like if we have local examples where

2666
01:49:29,840 --> 01:49:31,280
they seem to be working, would that be

2667
01:49:31,280 --> 01:49:33,840
useful to share it? It might not be.

2668
01:49:33,840 --> 01:49:35,360
Maybe developer only wants to read.

2669
01:49:35,360 --> 01:49:37,520
That's perfectly perfectly accept. No

2670
01:49:37,520 --> 01:49:39,280
pictures less like current.

2671
01:49:39,280 --> 01:49:42,800
>> What What if it were example

2672
01:49:42,800 --> 01:49:45,360
development projects that

2673
01:49:45,360 --> 01:49:47,760
are interesting to you? Oro, I'm not

2674
01:49:47,760 --> 01:49:48,400
sure how you say it.

2675
01:49:48,400 --> 01:49:50,960
>> Yeah. station.

2676
01:49:50,960 --> 01:49:53,920
>> A quick look. It's basically a very

2677
01:49:53,920 --> 01:49:56,159
interesting thing. A gentleman who came

2678
01:49:56,159 --> 01:49:58,000
to I think our first meeting talked

2679
01:49:58,000 --> 01:50:00,400
about um I marked it but I don't

2680
01:50:00,400 --> 01:50:02,400
remember the name of it. A development

2681
01:50:02,400 --> 01:50:06,080
in the Rochester area um that is also

2682
01:50:06,080 --> 01:50:08,239
very interesting along the water. So it

2683
01:50:08,239 --> 01:50:13,360
has that connection. Um uh I as an

2684
01:50:13,360 --> 01:50:15,119
architect I will tell you that when my

2685
01:50:15,119 --> 01:50:16,960
clients bring me examples of things that

2686
01:50:16,960 --> 01:50:19,440
they appreciate it helps me a lot

2687
01:50:19,440 --> 01:50:20,159
>> right

2688
01:50:20,159 --> 01:50:23,440
>> it it it need not be consistent from my

2689
01:50:23,440 --> 01:50:26,639
perspective it need not you know but but

2690
01:50:26,639 --> 01:50:30,960
it starts to say this feels

2691
01:50:30,960 --> 01:50:35,040
like what we we are thinking what I mean

2692
01:50:35,040 --> 01:50:36,880
and and ask yourselves what does

2693
01:50:36,880 --> 01:50:38,480
Michigan a what do you what would you

2694
01:50:38,480 --> 01:50:41,600
like Michigan Avenue to feel like?

2695
01:50:41,600 --> 01:50:43,360
What do you want it to look like?

2696
01:50:43,360 --> 01:50:44,719
Because I mean, it came up earlier.

2697
01:50:44,719 --> 01:50:46,400
Somebody started talking about um that

2698
01:50:46,400 --> 01:50:48,239
the the Michigan Avenue being a

2699
01:50:48,239 --> 01:50:50,320
racetrack. Officially, Michigan Avenue

2700
01:50:50,320 --> 01:50:53,280
isn't a part of Water Street. But I

2701
01:50:53,280 --> 01:50:55,600
always talk about the fact that Water

2702
01:50:55,600 --> 01:50:58,960
Street's way bigger than this 38 acres.

2703
01:50:58,960 --> 01:51:01,840
It's dramatically bigger. It's It

2704
01:51:01,840 --> 01:51:05,199
includes South Kiron Street. It includes

2705
01:51:05,199 --> 01:51:07,280
across Michigan and up into the park.

2706
01:51:07,280 --> 01:51:10,560
includes way east of it because that's

2707
01:51:10,560 --> 01:51:12,159
what it will influence.

2708
01:51:12,159 --> 01:51:13,600
>> Well, I actually would propose we would

2709
01:51:13,600 --> 01:51:15,520
do both. I would say you could add

2710
01:51:15,520 --> 01:51:17,119
images of the community that we think

2711
01:51:17,119 --> 01:51:19,040
kind of describe our community into this

2712
01:51:19,040 --> 01:51:22,400
and then a list of in inspirational

2713
01:51:22,400 --> 01:51:24,159
projects that we've looked at or

2714
01:51:24,159 --> 01:51:24,800
whatever

2715
01:51:24,800 --> 01:51:26,159
>> that are here or not here.

2716
01:51:26,159 --> 01:51:28,480
>> Yeah. Here or not here. I I think that

2717
01:51:28,480 --> 01:51:32,320
would be great. I think that's a great, you know,

2718
01:51:32,320 --> 01:51:34,159
>> I'm good with it. Send them over.

2719
01:51:34,159 --> 01:51:35,840
>> I've got one in that one.

2720
01:51:35,840 --> 01:51:37,840
>> Yeah. I don't know what the pictures

2721
01:51:37,840 --> 01:51:40,560
are, but they'll be like all come with

2722
01:51:40,560 --> 01:51:43,599
like one picture and just see like if

2723
01:51:43,599 --> 01:51:48,000
they can be we give them to Katie.

2724
01:51:48,000 --> 01:51:51,280
>> Katie makes sense of it. Sounds good.

2725
01:51:51,280 --> 01:51:54,080
>> I I love those kinds of projects. Those

2726
01:51:54,080 --> 01:52:02,070
are my favorite projects.

2727
01:52:02,080 --> 01:52:04,239
» Sign one. Thank you.

2728
01:52:04,239 --> 01:52:06,159
>> Yeah. Okay.

2729
01:52:06,159 --> 01:52:08,000
So this next conversation will take more

2730
01:52:08,000 --> 01:52:10,400
than one minute. So the question is are

2731
01:52:10,400 --> 01:52:12,719
we okay with extending a bit or are do

2732
01:52:12,719 --> 01:52:13,280
we want to

2733
01:52:13,280 --> 01:52:16,480
>> just extend? We got to extend again.

2734
01:52:16,480 --> 01:52:18,400
>> Yeah,

2735
01:52:18,400 --> 01:52:21,199
>> it's just to discuss the meeting.

2736
01:52:21,199 --> 01:52:22,159
>> No, it's not

2737
01:52:22,159 --> 01:52:26,550
>> the tribal.

2738
01:52:26,560 --> 01:52:29,830
» What's up?

2739
01:52:29,840 --> 01:52:32,159
>> How many minutes?

2740
01:52:32,159 --> 01:52:32,719
>> Oh yeah,

2741
01:52:32,719 --> 01:52:35,520
>> that's y'all not me.

2742
01:52:35,520 --> 01:52:37,760
sitting 9:15

2743
01:52:37,760 --> 01:52:39,119
>> presenting it.

2744
01:52:39,119 --> 01:52:40,960
>> Um, so it's a it's a discussion, but I

2745
01:52:40,960 --> 01:52:42,960
have I have some things to report out.

2746
01:52:42,960 --> 01:52:44,719
Um, we have we have a couple of

2747
01:52:44,719 --> 01:52:46,960
developments on this topic. So,

2748
01:52:46,960 --> 01:52:50,000
>> can we um vote on 9:30 with the first

2749
01:52:50,000 --> 01:52:54,639
five minutes doing directly to listening

2750
01:52:54,639 --> 01:52:55,920
>> and we're going to need the last five

2751
01:52:55,920 --> 01:52:58,320
minutes to decide who the chair is next

2752
01:52:58,320 --> 01:52:59,040
time.

2753
01:52:59,040 --> 01:52:59,679
>> Okay.

2754
01:52:59,679 --> 01:53:01,199
>> No, we got that Diane.

2755
01:53:01,199 --> 01:53:03,440
>> Oh, wait. But we need a vice chair.

2756
01:53:03,440 --> 01:53:05,280
>> Yeah. Yeah. All right.

2757
01:53:05,280 --> 01:53:07,440
>> By the vice chair. Sorry. That's what we

2758
01:53:07,440 --> 01:53:09,599
always need that time for still.

2759
01:53:09,599 --> 01:53:10,639
>> All right.

2760
01:53:10,639 --> 01:53:11,760
>> Go.

2761
01:53:11,760 --> 01:53:15,679
>> Um, great. So, Carrie and I have um been

2762
01:53:15,679 --> 01:53:17,760
working with Shipo. We got a list. We

2763
01:53:17,760 --> 01:53:23,280
had it was 20 20 24 tribes that um that

2764
01:53:23,280 --> 01:53:25,440
are usually that are approached for

2765
01:53:25,440 --> 01:53:27,280
things like this. And so, we sent both

2766
01:53:27,280 --> 01:53:30,880
letters and emails to all of them um all

2767
01:53:30,880 --> 01:53:33,280
of the tribal contacts there. and we

2768
01:53:33,280 --> 01:53:36,880
heard back from one and he said that he

2769
01:53:36,880 --> 01:53:38,560
was hoping to come tonight but was not

2770
01:53:38,560 --> 01:53:39,840
sure if he would be able to. So I sent

2771
01:53:39,840 --> 01:53:41,679
him the link for both this meeting as

2772
01:53:41,679 --> 01:53:44,000
well as the August meeting. I also sent

2773
01:53:44,000 --> 01:53:46,639
him all of our agendas and minutes that

2774
01:53:46,639 --> 01:53:48,239
we've had for the meetings as well as

2775
01:53:48,239 --> 01:53:50,639
the website um the water street website

2776
01:53:50,639 --> 01:53:52,639
so that he has all the context of of

2777
01:53:52,639 --> 01:53:53,920
things that we've discussed and that

2778
01:53:53,920 --> 01:53:56,080
sort of thing. I also offered that if he

2779
01:53:56,080 --> 01:53:57,360
couldn't make either of these meetings

2780
01:53:57,360 --> 01:53:58,719
if he wanted to meet outside of one of

2781
01:53:58,719 --> 01:54:01,199
the meetings I'd be happy to to jump on

2782
01:54:01,199 --> 01:54:03,440
a call with him as well. So, um, he

2783
01:54:03,440 --> 01:54:05,280
didn't he didn't say that he wanted to

2784
01:54:05,280 --> 01:54:07,199
do that. Um, I can keep you guys in the

2785
01:54:07,199 --> 01:54:10,639
loop on whether or not that happens. Um,

2786
01:54:10,639 --> 01:54:12,400
I know that there was some conversations

2787
01:54:12,400 --> 01:54:14,880
in email with another per somebody with

2788
01:54:14,880 --> 01:54:17,520
the Nado Waspi tribe. And so, I want to

2789
01:54:17,520 --> 01:54:19,599
I will after this meeting reach out

2790
01:54:19,599 --> 01:54:20,960
specifically to her because I want to

2791
01:54:20,960 --> 01:54:21,840
make sure that there's not any

2792
01:54:21,840 --> 01:54:23,760
miscommunication because there was other

2793
01:54:23,760 --> 01:54:25,119
commun there was other folks

2794
01:54:25,119 --> 01:54:26,320
communicating and I want to make sure

2795
01:54:26,320 --> 01:54:29,199
that she gets feels feels directly

2796
01:54:29,199 --> 01:54:31,840
communicated with from this committee.

2797
01:54:31,840 --> 01:54:34,159
um to to interface if if she would like

2798
01:54:34,159 --> 01:54:37,119
to. So, um that's sort of my update.

2799
01:54:37,119 --> 01:54:39,840
Last night, council passed a resolution.

2800
01:54:39,840 --> 01:54:41,199
I don't know if anybody from council

2801
01:54:41,199 --> 01:54:46,800
wants to speak on that, the mayor.

2802
01:54:46,800 --> 01:54:49,679
>> Um fundamentally, the resolution was

2803
01:54:49,679 --> 01:54:53,199
just to name that we want to make sure

2804
01:54:53,199 --> 01:54:56,320
that there's a process for engaging um

2805
01:54:56,320 --> 01:54:59,280
indigenous people and tribal, you know,

2806
01:54:59,280 --> 01:55:02,719
nations. um even outside of specific

2807
01:55:02,719 --> 01:55:04,719
projects that generally doesn't know the

2808
01:55:04,719 --> 01:55:06,239
connection to the community and we want

2809
01:55:06,239 --> 01:55:08,880
those relationships to be meaningful. Um

2810
01:55:08,880 --> 01:55:10,960
and so fundamentally what we decided

2811
01:55:10,960 --> 01:55:13,280
that we put in legislation that is

2812
01:55:13,280 --> 01:55:14,719
something that we are committed to doing

2813
01:55:14,719 --> 01:55:16,960
and that staff will be supporting in

2814
01:55:16,960 --> 01:55:18,560
doing that. So kind of what is already

2815
01:55:18,560 --> 01:55:20,480
doing for this body and reaching out

2816
01:55:20,480 --> 01:55:22,480
that will be ongoing work that staff and

2817
01:55:22,480 --> 01:55:23,840
council will be doing as well as

2818
01:55:23,840 --> 01:55:26,960
including community members when that

2819
01:55:26,960 --> 01:55:29,119
happens. And so I think that like it's

2820
01:55:29,119 --> 01:55:30,239
two things going because you guys

2821
01:55:30,239 --> 01:55:32,560
directed me to do it and so I did it and

2822
01:55:32,560 --> 01:55:34,159
then also we're doing this other large

2823
01:55:34,159 --> 01:55:36,480
sort of larger concept and for me that

2824
01:55:36,480 --> 01:55:39,599
just felt um authentic from the who we

2825
01:55:39,599 --> 01:55:41,360
are in Ipsilani and that like we have

2826
01:55:41,360 --> 01:55:43,440
never done that as a like hey we'd like

2827
01:55:43,440 --> 01:55:45,199
to build a relationship and have a

2828
01:55:45,199 --> 01:55:47,199
larger conversation about like what

2829
01:55:47,199 --> 01:55:48,719
would be honoring to you guys. Of

2830
01:55:48,719 --> 01:55:50,000
course, there's all the regulatory

2831
01:55:50,000 --> 01:55:52,400
things that we have to do and like when

2832
01:55:52,400 --> 01:55:56,239
we get uh federal funds, we have to do it and we have to notify

2833
01:55:56,239 --> 01:55:57,520
and like things like that. And of

2834
01:55:57,520 --> 01:55:59,119
course, we'll continue to do those, but

2835
01:55:59,119 --> 01:56:01,440
like to be more intentional, I feel like

2836
01:56:01,440 --> 01:56:03,679
outside of like this one project like

2837
01:56:03,679 --> 01:56:05,440
Peninsula Dam or this one project like

2838
01:56:05,440 --> 01:56:06,639
Water Street, like to just be more

2839
01:56:06,639 --> 01:56:09,760
intentional about it. Um

2840
01:56:09,760 --> 01:56:11,040
there was something else I wanted to say

2841
01:56:11,040 --> 01:56:12,480
about that. I don't remember what it

2842
01:56:12,480 --> 01:56:13,280
was.

2843
01:56:13,280 --> 01:56:15,360
>> Is there anything else? Yeah, please do.

2844
01:56:15,360 --> 01:56:18,159
Um so part of the discussion last year

2845
01:56:18,159 --> 01:56:22,639
was was there was a standalone general

2846
01:56:22,639 --> 01:56:25,440
sense that that this needs to happen.

2847
01:56:25,440 --> 01:56:26,960
Part of that was spurred on because of

2848
01:56:26,960 --> 01:56:29,040
the conversation in here in here which

2849
01:56:29,040 --> 01:56:30,639
said specifically that we're going to do

2850
01:56:30,639 --> 01:56:33,280
that. And so the question of whether

2851
01:56:33,280 --> 01:56:38,000
that uh that resolution included

2852
01:56:38,000 --> 01:56:41,920
um water street or the dam um was a

2853
01:56:41,920 --> 01:56:44,560
topic of discussion. We we excluded

2854
01:56:44,560 --> 01:56:47,360
specific projects because that was a

2855
01:56:47,360 --> 01:56:51,280
statement of a value and intent that

2856
01:56:51,280 --> 01:56:52,880
besides all these things which we're

2857
01:56:52,880 --> 01:56:54,159
going to do anyway and that we've

2858
01:56:54,159 --> 01:56:56,800
already got specific language to this is

2859
01:56:56,800 --> 01:56:59,280
something on top of that. So it wasn't

2860
01:56:59,280 --> 01:57:01,520
specifically included in that resolution

2861
01:57:01,520 --> 01:57:05,440
all the individual um

2862
01:57:05,440 --> 01:57:08,719
projects that that are ongoing that we

2863
01:57:08,719 --> 01:57:10,480
have specific conversations about but

2864
01:57:10,480 --> 01:57:12,800
more of a general general sense.

2865
01:57:12,800 --> 01:57:14,159
>> I'd like to see it included though

2866
01:57:14,159 --> 01:57:15,599
because I don't think it's on top of it.

2867
01:57:15,599 --> 01:57:18,400
It's you know you're working on this

2868
01:57:18,400 --> 01:57:20,800
more general global

2869
01:57:20,800 --> 01:57:23,840
um process which is important but then

2870
01:57:23,840 --> 01:57:25,599
also we're in the middle of one right

2871
01:57:25,599 --> 01:57:27,280
but that should be included. So it

2872
01:57:27,280 --> 01:57:29,520
doesn't that this doesn't get swept away

2873
01:57:29,520 --> 01:57:32,719
and doesn't have all the um benefits

2874
01:57:32,719 --> 01:57:35,119
that you're you're building with with

2875
01:57:35,119 --> 01:57:36,800
the more global right you know what I

2876
01:57:36,800 --> 01:57:38,880
mean like whatever whatever process get

2877
01:57:38,880 --> 01:57:41,679
added in this global way from council I

2878
01:57:41,679 --> 01:57:44,480
would love to see that included in right

2879
01:57:44,480 --> 01:57:46,320
so that it because I feel like it's it's

2880
01:57:46,320 --> 01:57:50,000
just um uplifting the level of

2881
01:57:50,000 --> 01:57:54,239
intentionality right so as as you gain

2882
01:57:54,239 --> 01:57:56,560
information from either tribal nations

2883
01:57:56,560 --> 01:57:58,960
or ind individual individ indigenous

2884
01:57:58,960 --> 01:58:01,440
people and that gets incorporated that

2885
01:58:01,440 --> 01:58:04,080
we should uplift all of our projects. It

2886
01:58:04,080 --> 01:58:05,360
doesn't even have to be these two. So it

2887
01:58:05,360 --> 01:58:08,080
can be just so that

2888
01:58:08,080 --> 01:58:09,840
>> okay we didn't do it before so we didn't

2889
01:58:09,840 --> 01:58:12,000
have it but now we have it so I would

2890
01:58:12,000 --> 01:58:15,040
like to see it included you know then

2891
01:58:15,040 --> 01:58:17,520
as we learn as we engage I'm assume

2892
01:58:17,520 --> 01:58:20,960
going to grow or we're going to develop

2893
01:58:20,960 --> 01:58:23,040
>> well am I hearing you right are you are

2894
01:58:23,040 --> 01:58:25,040
you just clarifying to this council

2895
01:58:25,040 --> 01:58:27,280
right here that the pro proposal that

2896
01:58:27,280 --> 01:58:30,800
was proposed may did not include the two

2897
01:58:30,800 --> 01:58:32,239
previous ones that we have now which is

2898
01:58:32,239 --> 01:58:34,719
the dam and the water

2899
01:58:34,719 --> 01:58:36,560
It didn't include it didn't it doesn't

2900
01:58:36,560 --> 01:58:38,960
refer to a single project. It refers to

2901
01:58:38,960 --> 01:58:40,719
all of the projects.

2902
01:58:40,719 --> 01:58:42,239
>> Definitely inspired by this very

2903
01:58:42,239 --> 01:58:44,000
conversation that was created.

2904
01:58:44,000 --> 01:58:46,080
>> Yes,

2905
01:58:46,080 --> 01:58:48,159
>> for sure. And also, you know, like

2906
01:58:48,159 --> 01:58:49,920
another one that we haven't talked about

2907
01:58:49,920 --> 01:58:51,840
even is Prospect Park. doing some

2908
01:58:51,840 --> 01:58:54,880
sidewalks right now in Prospect Park and

2909
01:58:54,880 --> 01:58:57,360
because it is federal funds, it's CDBG

2910
01:58:57,360 --> 01:59:00,480
dollars and so we have to do um right

2911
01:59:00,480 --> 01:59:01,760
like so again there's times that

2912
01:59:01,760 --> 01:59:04,560
regulatory we have to do it and so but

2913
01:59:04,560 --> 01:59:06,560
we don't always bring those up because

2914
01:59:06,560 --> 01:59:08,080
you just have to do it right and like so

2915
01:59:08,080 --> 01:59:09,440
that it's not always a discussion. It's

2916
01:59:09,440 --> 01:59:10,480
not always something that comes to

2917
01:59:10,480 --> 01:59:12,639
council because it's just legally that's

2918
01:59:12,639 --> 01:59:14,159
what we have to do when we spend those

2919
01:59:14,159 --> 01:59:16,639
dollars on on that project. I guess the

2920
01:59:16,639 --> 01:59:18,400
other point I would add from from that

2921
01:59:18,400 --> 01:59:21,360
is the question of it wasn't meant to

2922
01:59:21,360 --> 01:59:23,679
exclude conversation. So folks have

2923
01:59:23,679 --> 01:59:27,280
reached out to to people already, right?

2924
01:59:27,280 --> 01:59:30,880
And so it doesn't say that only Katie

2925
01:59:30,880 --> 01:59:33,840
Carrick do that. Those are all great,

2926
01:59:33,840 --> 01:59:37,360
but I as a council member cannot

2927
01:59:37,360 --> 01:59:39,679
represent the city

2928
01:59:39,679 --> 01:59:41,760
in any

2929
01:59:41,760 --> 01:59:44,719
uh with any tribal government.

2930
01:59:44,719 --> 01:59:46,480
I've just done that. But the mayor is

2931
01:59:46,480 --> 01:59:48,159
the only person that can do that. So we

2932
01:59:48,159 --> 01:59:49,599
can still have those conversations, but

2933
01:59:49,599 --> 01:59:52,400
if it's official, then we have to go

2934
01:59:52,400 --> 01:59:54,000
through that. We we still develop

2935
01:59:54,000 --> 01:59:56,159
relationships. Everybody can do that.

2936
01:59:56,159 --> 01:59:59,360
That's that's not at all. But in terms

2937
01:59:59,360 --> 02:00:04,000
of what we can agree to and state on

2938
02:00:04,000 --> 02:00:07,199
behalf of the city as an entity, we're

2939
02:00:07,199 --> 02:00:09,840
very limited. So

2940
02:00:09,840 --> 02:00:11,199
the best thing is to have as many

2941
02:00:11,199 --> 02:00:13,920
relationship as possible, right? Um, so

2942
02:00:13,920 --> 02:00:15,360
everybody should be working on that and

2943
02:00:15,360 --> 02:00:18,480
doing those things. But but in terms of

2944
02:00:18,480 --> 02:00:21,520
that comes back staff and and the mayor,

2945
02:00:21,520 --> 02:00:24,480
right, to be official if you're going to

2946
02:00:24,480 --> 02:00:25,920
come to an agreement, something like

2947
02:00:25,920 --> 02:00:29,119
that, then it has to be all of council.

2948
02:00:29,119 --> 02:00:30,719
So we can have conversations and be

2949
02:00:30,719 --> 02:00:32,639
friendly and get to and and develop

2950
02:00:32,639 --> 02:00:34,960
those relationships, but we can't agree

2951
02:00:34,960 --> 02:00:37,280
to anything as individuals.

2952
02:00:37,280 --> 02:00:39,040
>> Not yet. Right. But I'm hoping that the

2953
02:00:39,040 --> 02:00:42,159
process is because I

2954
02:00:42,159 --> 02:00:44,320
I'm assuming right that the point is

2955
02:00:44,320 --> 02:00:46,239
what I would love to see in terms of

2956
02:00:46,239 --> 02:00:48,560
that what land back means what I think

2957
02:00:48,560 --> 02:00:50,800
it means of stewardship is it's not just

2958
02:00:50,800 --> 02:00:53,920
like liberal land right but that the

2959
02:00:53,920 --> 02:00:55,840
people who who were here before and have

2960
02:00:55,840 --> 02:00:58,400
this extensive knowledge through

2961
02:00:58,400 --> 02:01:01,040
indigenous science and history have a

2962
02:01:01,040 --> 02:01:03,920
voice in how the land is stewarded

2963
02:01:03,920 --> 02:01:05,920
and so we have that expertise is great

2964
02:01:05,920 --> 02:01:07,920
and and that honoring I think on a moral

2965
02:01:07,920 --> 02:01:09,840
level and all of that too that expertise

2966
02:01:09,840 --> 02:01:12,480
that was probably are sustainable also,

2967
02:01:12,480 --> 02:01:14,080
right? So, if we have that process, I

2968
02:01:14,080 --> 02:01:14,880
mean, of course, we're going to have

2969
02:01:14,880 --> 02:01:16,239
relationships and all of that as

2970
02:01:16,239 --> 02:01:19,840
individuals, but that if it's written

2971
02:01:19,840 --> 02:01:22,320
so that yeah, Ipsy officially would work

2972
02:01:22,320 --> 02:01:26,080
as a city always engaging people, you

2973
02:01:26,080 --> 02:01:27,920
know, whenever they want and they would

2974
02:01:27,920 --> 02:01:30,560
choose and and they would help us write

2975
02:01:30,560 --> 02:01:33,520
that process so that that gets included

2976
02:01:33,520 --> 02:01:36,080
in all in all

2977
02:01:36,080 --> 02:01:38,480
like for anything that might affect them

2978
02:01:38,480 --> 02:01:40,320
because that's going to make everything

2979
02:01:40,320 --> 02:01:41,440
sustainable.

2980
02:01:41,440 --> 02:01:43,199
>> Yep.

2981
02:01:43,199 --> 02:01:45,040
>> I have two questions.

2982
02:01:45,040 --> 02:01:45,840
>> Okay.

2983
02:01:45,840 --> 02:01:50,800
>> One is um who responded? What tribe was

2984
02:01:50,800 --> 02:01:55,599
that? And then the other one is of there

2985
02:01:55,599 --> 02:01:59,360
are 24 um tribes to reach out to and

2986
02:01:59,360 --> 02:02:02,960
that's a lot and I'm so sorry. But I

2987
02:02:02,960 --> 02:02:05,840
would also I'm sure you have a process

2988
02:02:05,840 --> 02:02:09,679
and a plan, but you know cuz tribal

2989
02:02:09,679 --> 02:02:11,119
governments are people and they're

2990
02:02:11,119 --> 02:02:13,760
always rolling off to. So if there's

2991
02:02:13,760 --> 02:02:16,880
some plan for like, okay, every year we

2992
02:02:16,880 --> 02:02:20,080
just email all 24 people. Yeah.

2993
02:02:20,080 --> 02:02:22,639
>> So that's one thing that we are having

2994
02:02:22,639 --> 02:02:24,400
conversations at the staff level now is

2995
02:02:24,400 --> 02:02:25,920
now that the resolution is passed, what

2996
02:02:25,920 --> 02:02:27,599
is the most intentional way of doing

2997
02:02:27,599 --> 02:02:29,599
that and like what's the best way to do

2998
02:02:29,599 --> 02:02:31,840
that? And I I don't have the answer for

2999
02:02:31,840 --> 02:02:32,960
you today because it was just passed

3000
02:02:32,960 --> 02:02:34,639
last night at midnight and so we haven't

3001
02:02:34,639 --> 02:02:38,000
gotten there yet. Um

3002
02:02:38,000 --> 02:02:39,520
>> but do you want to come up to the

3003
02:02:39,520 --> 02:02:40,080
microphone though?

3004
02:02:40,080 --> 02:02:41,040
>> Sure.

3005
02:02:41,040 --> 02:02:42,960
>> Um the other thing I want to quick say

3006
02:02:42,960 --> 02:02:44,480
before while Carrie's making her way to

3007
02:02:44,480 --> 02:02:46,800
the the microphone is that there's been

3008
02:02:46,800 --> 02:02:48,960
some discussion about

3009
02:02:48,960 --> 02:02:51,360
whether or why not why hadn't we done

3010
02:02:51,360 --> 02:02:52,880
this yet or why hadn't it gotten

3011
02:02:52,880 --> 02:02:54,560
accomplished yet? And I want to make it

3012
02:02:54,560 --> 02:02:56,560
very clear that that's because there was

3013
02:02:56,560 --> 02:02:58,960
no federal funds that were being used

3014
02:02:58,960 --> 02:03:02,080
for excavation purposes. So that's like

3015
02:03:02,080 --> 02:03:04,239
when there's ground disturbances is when

3016
02:03:04,239 --> 02:03:06,480
it needs to happen. And so that that's

3017
02:03:06,480 --> 02:03:08,400
not happened with any federal funds thus

3018
02:03:08,400 --> 02:03:10,239
far. We've done an excavation project.

3019
02:03:10,239 --> 02:03:11,679
It was with state funds. It's not

3020
02:03:11,679 --> 02:03:14,480
required with state funds. And so um it

3021
02:03:14,480 --> 02:03:17,280
is with federal. And so that is the

3022
02:03:17,280 --> 02:03:19,199
clarification there that that's why it

3023
02:03:19,199 --> 02:03:22,159
hadn't happened yet. Um, and so that's

3024
02:03:22,159 --> 02:03:23,440
why we did it at the moment that we did

3025
02:03:23,440 --> 02:03:26,000
it.

3026
02:03:26,000 --> 02:03:27,360
>> Really quick, just answer your question

3027
02:03:27,360 --> 02:03:29,920
about like contacts should like even you

3028
02:03:29,920 --> 02:03:32,080
got a response like oh actually this is

3029
02:03:32,080 --> 02:03:33,360
outdated email,

3030
02:03:33,360 --> 02:03:35,280
>> right? Right. Yeah, it's a new person

3031
02:03:35,280 --> 02:03:38,880
that he's like trying to get

3032
02:03:38,880 --> 02:03:41,040
my account.

3033
02:03:41,040 --> 02:03:43,040
They update that database with their

3034
02:03:43,040 --> 02:03:44,880
contact information. So we pull from

3035
02:03:44,880 --> 02:03:46,960
that. That's what Chipo um state

3036
02:03:46,960 --> 02:03:48,719
historic Federation office suggested.

3037
02:03:48,719 --> 02:03:51,040
They also had like their but they're

3038
02:03:51,040 --> 02:03:53,520
like also go there and make sure you

3039
02:03:53,520 --> 02:03:54,400
list

3040
02:03:54,400 --> 02:03:58,159
>> um because like the not of study um of

3041
02:03:58,159 --> 02:03:59,520
weren't on that list but we know that

3042
02:03:59,520 --> 02:04:01,920
they're engaging with the city so we

3043
02:04:01,920 --> 02:04:02,239
added

3044
02:04:02,239 --> 02:04:04,960
>> yeah we're gonna

3045
02:04:04,960 --> 02:04:07,440
but um

3046
02:04:07,440 --> 02:04:08,000
what

3047
02:04:08,000 --> 02:04:09,679
>> so the other question was who it was and

3048
02:04:09,679 --> 02:04:12,080
it was the Sagena Chippoa Indian tribe

3049
02:04:12,080 --> 02:04:14,400
of Michigan um their preservation

3050
02:04:14,400 --> 02:04:17,679
officer uh Gage Gage Cole I can't read

3051
02:04:17,679 --> 02:04:22,629
the cursive coowwell

3052
02:04:22,639 --> 02:04:24,560
I would just like to say me being a you

3053
02:04:24,560 --> 02:04:26,880
know huge leaison advocate in the

3054
02:04:26,880 --> 02:04:28,960
community um there's been times that

3055
02:04:28,960 --> 02:04:31,760
there have been events one block away in

3056
02:04:31,760 --> 02:04:34,239
our unhoused community was there and

3057
02:04:34,239 --> 02:04:36,320
there was free food offer good free food

3058
02:04:36,320 --> 02:04:38,159
offer and some people just don't go

3059
02:04:38,159 --> 02:04:40,320
because they totally disagree with

3060
02:04:40,320 --> 02:04:43,520
what's going on at the event. So I just

3061
02:04:43,520 --> 02:04:46,000
want to know um

3062
02:04:46,000 --> 02:04:49,599
>> when you talk about 24 people and then

3063
02:04:49,599 --> 02:04:51,760
one person with they cannot even want to

3064
02:04:51,760 --> 02:04:53,280
get it get down. That's what I'm saying.

3065
02:04:53,280 --> 02:04:55,920
They cannot even like that involved.

3066
02:04:55,920 --> 02:04:57,679
>> Yeah. They might want to do nothing.

3067
02:04:57,679 --> 02:04:59,199
They might not want to holl at y'all

3068
02:04:59,199 --> 02:05:01,119
about nothing. Might not want to talk.

3069
02:05:01,119 --> 02:05:03,199
They might want to sue soon trying to do

3070
02:05:03,199 --> 02:05:05,520
something without I don't know.

3071
02:05:05,520 --> 02:05:08,480
>> I I think a part of it is uh it's not

3072
02:05:08,480 --> 02:05:10,880
necessarily about I mean folks yes have

3073
02:05:10,880 --> 02:05:12,000
the right to decide if they want to

3074
02:05:12,000 --> 02:05:13,599
engage with us or not, but it's about

3075
02:05:13,599 --> 02:05:16,400
our willingness and the intentionality

3076
02:05:16,400 --> 02:05:19,280
of reaching out right and make sure that

3077
02:05:19,280 --> 02:05:21,119
we have as many voices as possible, as

3078
02:05:21,119 --> 02:05:23,119
many folks as possible to be able to

3079
02:05:23,119 --> 02:05:24,880
help steward like the work.

3080
02:05:24,880 --> 02:05:26,560
>> On the back end of that, I was about to

3081
02:05:26,560 --> 02:05:28,880
say, what tactics are we going to use

3082
02:05:28,880 --> 02:05:31,599
moving forward to excite that may feel

3083
02:05:31,599 --> 02:05:33,520
like I'm trying to give y'all actual

3084
02:05:33,520 --> 02:05:35,599
examples from Pipsy right here with

3085
02:05:35,599 --> 02:05:38,000
people who really may need a meal but

3086
02:05:38,000 --> 02:05:42,790
may not want to come?

3087
02:05:42,800 --> 02:05:44,000
» No, it did.

3088
02:05:44,000 --> 02:05:46,080
>> Well, are you sorry?

3089
02:05:46,080 --> 02:05:48,080
>> Yeah. Um, well, I work for the state. We

3090
02:05:48,080 --> 02:05:50,960
do this all the time. So, you reach out

3091
02:05:50,960 --> 02:05:56,000
to the um the roll call and the roll

3092
02:05:56,000 --> 02:05:58,239
call responds if they choose to or if

3093
02:05:58,239 --> 02:06:00,000
they choose to not cuz they're very

3094
02:06:00,000 --> 02:06:02,320
prideful people. So, you reach out to

3095
02:06:02,320 --> 02:06:04,159
the roll call and you just make that

3096
02:06:04,159 --> 02:06:06,880
happen. You know what I mean? We are

3097
02:06:06,880 --> 02:06:09,280
mandated by our policies to do it

3098
02:06:09,280 --> 02:06:10,960
automatic

3099
02:06:10,960 --> 02:06:13,199
when we find out it's any kind of

3100
02:06:13,199 --> 02:06:15,520
relationship of Native American

3101
02:06:15,520 --> 02:06:18,159
heritage. Well, and also Carrie and I

3102
02:06:18,159 --> 02:06:20,960
are consulting if you want to name the

3103
02:06:20,960 --> 02:06:22,960
person that's at Michigan State that

3104
02:06:22,960 --> 02:06:25,360
you've been communicating with.

3105
02:06:25,360 --> 02:06:27,840
>> Well, or just there's a professor there

3106
02:06:27,840 --> 02:06:30,800
>> archaeologists um service Evans. She's

3107
02:06:30,800 --> 02:06:33,040
actually but Scotty used to be in my

3108
02:06:33,040 --> 02:06:34,639
position with the city who's a

3109
02:06:34,639 --> 02:06:37,520
management planner who's great. Um yeah

3110
02:06:37,520 --> 02:06:40,079
so I mean I kind of Scott my point

3111
02:06:40,079 --> 02:06:42,079
person he understands it and everything

3112
02:06:42,079 --> 02:06:45,119
but um the archaeologists have like they

3113
02:06:45,119 --> 02:06:47,679
provided a lot of information um and

3114
02:06:47,679 --> 02:06:50,480
they've been really really helpful with

3115
02:06:50,480 --> 02:06:52,320
um like how to go about this but there

3116
02:06:52,320 --> 02:06:55,199
are also other professionals um who do

3117
02:06:55,199 --> 02:06:58,239
the work of tribal consultation not just

3118
02:06:58,239 --> 02:07:00,079
the required section 106 but actually

3119
02:07:00,079 --> 02:07:02,320
like working with at a community level

3120
02:07:02,320 --> 02:07:05,599
like what is that part and I'll just

3121
02:07:05,599 --> 02:07:06,800
share

3122
02:07:06,800 --> 02:07:08,960
Um, one thing I keep like thinking of

3123
02:07:08,960 --> 02:07:10,880
this conversation is so Heather Howard

3124
02:07:10,880 --> 02:07:13,040
who is a she's a professor of

3125
02:07:13,040 --> 02:07:14,880
anthropology at SU but she's also

3126
02:07:14,880 --> 02:07:16,480
research faculty at the University of

3127
02:07:16,480 --> 02:07:19,520
Toronto and when we reached out to her

3128
02:07:19,520 --> 02:07:21,199
we're like what does this process look

3129
02:07:21,199 --> 02:07:23,920
like to kind of go beyond section 106

3130
02:07:23,920 --> 02:07:26,639
and she was like can't emphasize enough

3131
02:07:26,639 --> 02:07:28,480
relationship like you have to be

3132
02:07:28,480 --> 02:07:30,480
consistent. She was like, she gave some

3133
02:07:30,480 --> 02:07:35,679
examples of projects. Um like uh there's

3134
02:07:35,679 --> 02:07:38,159
an interactive um like history project

3135
02:07:38,159 --> 02:07:39,679
with Toronto. It's called First Story

3136
02:07:39,679 --> 02:07:41,440
Toronto and she's like that took 10

3137
02:07:41,440 --> 02:07:44,480
years together like building the trust.

3138
02:07:44,480 --> 02:07:46,159
So I think that like that's what I

3139
02:07:46,159 --> 02:07:48,159
understand the intent of this resolution

3140
02:07:48,159 --> 02:07:50,159
piece like we want to move beyond

3141
02:07:50,159 --> 02:07:53,199
section 106 and like it will probably

3142
02:07:53,199 --> 02:07:55,040
like to your point too. Yes. It can be a

3143
02:07:55,040 --> 02:07:56,239
little disappointing to like work on

3144
02:07:56,239 --> 02:07:58,639
something so much and then you get one

3145
02:07:58,639 --> 02:08:01,520
spot. But I think like being consistent.

3146
02:08:01,520 --> 02:08:04,000
So like next, you know, like reach out

3147
02:08:04,000 --> 02:08:04,800
again.

3148
02:08:04,800 --> 02:08:06,719
>> And another idea Carrie and I had was

3149
02:08:06,719 --> 02:08:08,880
like maybe maybe Carrie or myself would

3150
02:08:08,880 --> 02:08:10,560
travel to go see them, right? Like

3151
02:08:10,560 --> 02:08:11,920
rather than expecting them to come to

3152
02:08:11,920 --> 02:08:14,000
Ipsy or them to email Ipsy, right? Like

3153
02:08:14,000 --> 02:08:15,440
there so there's options and I think

3154
02:08:15,440 --> 02:08:17,119
that there's vision that we have for

3155
02:08:17,119 --> 02:08:20,239
this. And I think that um

3156
02:08:20,239 --> 02:08:22,079
I am more excited about this than I

3157
02:08:22,079 --> 02:08:23,280
haven't been in a lot of things that

3158
02:08:23,280 --> 02:08:26,079
I've done. I think that it's um it's

3159
02:08:26,079 --> 02:08:27,760
good work and it's intentional work and

3160
02:08:27,760 --> 02:08:29,360
so I think that it's meaningful and so

3161
02:08:29,360 --> 02:08:31,520
I'm thankful to this committee for for

3162
02:08:31,520 --> 02:08:34,239
putting it top of mind and and pushing

3163
02:08:34,239 --> 02:08:36,079
it. So I think that it's been helpful. I

3164
02:08:36,079 --> 02:08:37,840
think that Carrie and I've had some very

3165
02:08:37,840 --> 02:08:40,239
dynamic conversations about it and been

3166
02:08:40,239 --> 02:08:42,000
able to consult with some really um cool

3167
02:08:42,000 --> 02:08:43,440
people who are doing really cool work

3168
02:08:43,440 --> 02:08:45,599
across the country right now um in the

3169
02:08:45,599 --> 02:08:46,880
space. And so I think it's been really

3170
02:08:46,880 --> 02:08:47,360
useful.

3171
02:08:47,360 --> 02:08:49,760
>> It's also like come up for so many like

3172
02:08:49,760 --> 02:08:51,599
signage projects. It's like

3173
02:08:51,599 --> 02:08:53,199
>> yes, this is so important, but like it's

3174
02:08:53,199 --> 02:08:55,119
not our history to

3175
02:08:55,119 --> 02:08:57,920
>> tell and also be it shouldn't just be

3176
02:08:57,920 --> 02:09:00,480
tacked on. It needs to be like this

3177
02:09:00,480 --> 02:09:02,079
should citywide there's so many

3178
02:09:02,079 --> 02:09:04,560
important parts of the city to

3179
02:09:04,560 --> 02:09:06,880
consulting thrives and like where where

3180
02:09:06,880 --> 02:09:08,239
are those places? You want to have

3181
02:09:08,239 --> 02:09:10,320
interpret interpretation or do you not

3182
02:09:10,320 --> 02:09:12,320
or like do you want to plan like

3183
02:09:12,320 --> 02:09:13,760
>> I feel like signage was always the

3184
02:09:13,760 --> 02:09:15,760
answer, right? like and when you when

3185
02:09:15,760 --> 02:09:17,119
you start to feel like you just keep

3186
02:09:17,119 --> 02:09:19,679
putting a sign up that doesn't feel

3187
02:09:19,679 --> 02:09:22,239
significant or or particularly valuable

3188
02:09:22,239 --> 02:09:23,840
and so I think that we were kind of

3189
02:09:23,840 --> 02:09:25,360
looking for that like what's the next

3190
02:09:25,360 --> 02:09:28,800
piece of this this conversation

3191
02:09:28,800 --> 02:09:32,960
>> but I went to a school in which you know

3192
02:09:32,960 --> 02:09:35,760
and one of their solutions back which

3193
02:09:35,760 --> 02:09:37,920
took them here

3194
02:09:37,920 --> 02:09:39,840
>> was to build a long house that belonged

3195
02:09:39,840 --> 02:09:40,560
to the

3196
02:09:40,560 --> 02:09:41,679
>> great long house

3197
02:09:41,679 --> 02:09:43,840
>> right yeah and so and I don't know what

3198
02:09:43,840 --> 02:09:47,760
equivalent to you know but in terms of

3199
02:09:47,760 --> 02:09:50,480
again asking them so how you want to use

3200
02:09:50,480 --> 02:09:56,550
the space and centering that version

3201
02:09:56,560 --> 02:09:57,920
» and projects are great because they give

3202
02:09:57,920 --> 02:10:00,159
the city opportunity to actually like

3203
02:10:00,159 --> 02:10:02,719
okay there's focus on this development

3204
02:10:02,719 --> 02:10:04,639
and there are funds potentially or

3205
02:10:04,639 --> 02:10:07,040
whatever like there's there resources

3206
02:10:07,040 --> 02:10:10,239
not for them u so like that this is

3207
02:10:10,239 --> 02:10:11,280
really exciting yeah

3208
02:10:11,280 --> 02:10:13,760
>> we're at a super exciting time where Um,

3209
02:10:13,760 --> 02:10:16,480
things can happen as a result of Sorry,

3210
02:10:16,480 --> 02:10:16,800
go ahead.

3211
02:10:16,800 --> 02:10:18,800
>> No, it's all right. I just I see you. We

3212
02:10:18,800 --> 02:10:19,360
need to end

3213
02:10:19,360 --> 02:10:21,280
>> bravo on the city for doing this. I get

3214
02:10:21,280 --> 02:10:22,719
y too.

3215
02:10:22,719 --> 02:10:24,320
>> Yep. You got to go. That's all right. We

3216
02:10:24,320 --> 02:10:27,119
appreciate you next co-chair.

3217
02:10:27,119 --> 02:10:30,960
>> Yeah, we need the next co-chair.

3218
02:10:30,960 --> 02:10:32,719
>> So, we got Diana as chair and then we

3219
02:10:32,719 --> 02:10:35,360
need somebody as their as um her vice

3220
02:10:35,360 --> 02:10:36,560
chair

3221
02:10:36,560 --> 02:10:37,679
>> who hasn't done it who might be

3222
02:10:37,679 --> 02:10:38,560
interested in doing it.

3223
02:10:38,560 --> 02:10:40,800
>> So, that's for September. Whatever we

3224
02:10:40,800 --> 02:10:43,440
do, I'll do it. the theoretical next

3225
02:10:43,440 --> 02:10:52,069
meeting. Okay. Thank you.

3226
02:10:52,079 --> 02:11:02,310
» We're good.

3227
02:11:02,320 --> 02:11:06,000
» We are the next meeting is August 20

3228
02:11:06,000 --> 02:11:07,920
something.

3229
02:11:07,920 --> 02:11:10,800
Um,

3230
02:11:10,800 --> 02:11:12,320
>> it's 26.

3231
02:11:12,320 --> 02:11:14,800
>> It is. It's 26.

3232
02:11:14,800 --> 02:11:15,280
>> Yes.

3233
02:11:15,280 --> 02:11:17,679
>> Is that the day after we like get off

3234
02:11:17,679 --> 02:11:22,950
schedule?

3235
02:11:22,960 --> 02:11:25,990
» Sorry.

3236
02:11:26,000 --> 02:11:28,079
» I was there with you. I know. Oh, I

3237
02:11:28,079 --> 02:11:29,760
know. I'm just kidding.

3238
02:11:29,760 --> 02:11:34,390
>> Today I felt like I

3239
02:11:34,400 --> 02:11:35,840
» was listening to an arts kids meeting in

3240
02:11:35,840 --> 02:11:37,840
my office and I shut both doors and I

3241
02:11:37,840 --> 02:11:40,560
was sitting there and I was like,

3242
02:11:40,560 --> 02:11:42,719
>> I was off screen. It was not easy.

3243
02:11:42,719 --> 02:11:43,520
>> I know.

3244
02:11:43,520 --> 02:11:45,920
>> All right. Thanks. Appreciate you.

3245
02:11:45,920 --> 02:11:47,440
>> The Republicans were messing with that

3246
02:11:47,440 --> 02:11:49,040
in the budget. Did

3247
02:11:49,040 --> 02:11:50,639
>> that go through?

3248
02:11:50,639 --> 02:11:52,079
>> Did they Did they uh

3249
02:11:52,079 --> 02:11:53,440
>> They did get some of the money away.

3250
02:11:53,440 --> 02:11:54,800
Yeah.

3251
02:11:54,800 --> 02:11:57,520
>> Yeah. But it was funds that were so it

3252
02:11:57,520 --> 02:11:59,920
was the problem was the funds were the

3253
02:11:59,920 --> 02:12:01,840
2025

3254
02:12:01,840 --> 02:12:04,639
funds that had been unspent and it was

3255
02:12:04,639 --> 02:12:06,480
unspent because they hadn't got but it

3256
02:12:06,480 --> 02:12:08,159
was because they hadn't got contracts

3257
02:12:08,159 --> 02:12:09,920
for so long they couldn't spend it

3258
02:12:09,920 --> 02:12:11,760
quickly enough and so

3259
02:12:11,760 --> 02:12:13,280
>> but yes some of them did

3260
02:12:13,280 --> 02:12:14,880
>> speakers

3261
02:12:14,880 --> 02:12:15,520
got money.

3262
02:12:15,520 --> 02:12:20,560
>> Yeah. and absolutely don't