1 00:23:05,120 --> 00:23:12,640 Clear Creek Board of County Commissioners is back in session. Uh, 2 00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:16,080 first on the agenda is public comment. Is there anyone in the room for public 3 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:20,640 comment? Yes, sir. to um please state your name, 4 00:23:19,039 --> 00:23:23,280 approximately where you live. >> Sure. 5 00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:25,600 » And you have three minutes. >> I'll do it in one. 6 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:30,240 » Okay. [laughter] >> Uh Frank Brown. I'm in St. Mary's 7 00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:34,559 Glacier. And today I'm just here for one purpose which is I've been asked by the 8 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:39,520 CCLTA which is an advocacy group for lodging short-term and tourism in uh 9 00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:45,120 Clare Creek County to present formal objection a formal objection letter to 10 00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:49,280 resolution 26-55 uh to you guys to the commissioners. It 11 00:23:47,919 --> 00:23:52,799 was emailed to each commissioner yesterday explaining a long list of 12 00:23:51,360 --> 00:23:56,799 reasons this board should not proceed with this ballot initiative and has the 13 00:23:54,799 --> 00:24:00,080 support of nearly 100 individuals and businesses in Clear Creek County. And 14 00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:04,320 I'd like to have it submitted for the record 15 00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:07,360 and I brought copies, hard copies. Any of you did not get it in the email. You 16 00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:10,880 got it. >> Was it email or a text? You said email. 17 00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:12,480 » Email. >> There's a hard copy in front of you, 18 00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:14,400 Rebecca. >> Thank you. 19 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:18,400 » Anybody need a hard copy? >> Oh, fancy. Got it. 20 00:24:15,919 --> 00:24:23,039 » That's perfect. Thank you for your time. >> Thank you. Good job. 21 00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:26,480 » All right. Is there anyone else in the room for public comment? Yes, sir. 22 00:24:25,360 --> 00:24:28,480 » Hello. >> Good [clears throat] morning. 23 00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:34,000 » Morning. >> My name is Noah. Uh I live in Idaho 24 00:24:30,799 --> 00:24:39,120 Springs. Um I'm actually um a short-term rental host myself and I just wanted to 25 00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:44,159 um I'm relatively new to the county. I've been living up there for about 26 00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:49,360 three years now. Um we have been really hit hard by um beetlekill. Uh we've got 27 00:24:47,679 --> 00:24:52,960 an active infestation going on. We've got hundreds of trees on my property 28 00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:57,760 that that I've spent the better part of the last year trying to to bring down. 29 00:24:55,120 --> 00:25:03,440 Um and I ran into a little bit of trouble with um a mismatch between sort 30 00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:09,440 of my desire to get these trees down and then the cost associated with having um 31 00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:13,360 the county permit um necessary excavation to reach the tree sites. And 32 00:25:11,279 --> 00:25:20,880 I just wanted to suggest that if the county wants to come up with a solution 33 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:25,919 to the beetle pill problem that actually incentivizes residents to spend their 34 00:25:23,679 --> 00:25:31,120 hard-earned money and time to bring down those trees that the county ought to 35 00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:36,720 make it um as little difficulty to actually accomplish that goal. Um, so 36 00:25:33,279 --> 00:25:41,039 instead of a project um costing $20,000, which is what I have already spent on 37 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:47,120 it, it's going to cost another $40,000 to get um uh engineers, surveyors, soil 38 00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:53,022 engineers, um a couple of other, you know, things related to the to the 39 00:25:48,799 --> 00:25:58,159 county's sort of um requirement for [clears throat] excavation permits even 40 00:25:54,480 --> 00:26:01,919 for small um tracks of very stable land. Anyway, I just wanted to suggest that no 41 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:05,279 one is I would have never undertaken the project. I would have just let the trees 42 00:26:03,360 --> 00:26:08,320 fall down in the next windstorm over the next 10 years. Um, but I know that 43 00:26:07,039 --> 00:26:11,520 that's not actually good for the county. That's not good for the people who live 44 00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:15,948 here. The trees are sort of an eyesore. I live close to town. If there's a fire, 45 00:26:13,919 --> 00:26:18,159 it's huge amounts of fuel. So, [clears throat] 46 00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:24,000 I just would like the county to be aware that there seems to be an incentive mis 47 00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:27,279 mi mismatch. Um, and I doubt that anything will ever come of it, but I'm 48 00:26:25,679 --> 00:26:31,360 going through all those processes now. I intend to finish my my goal of having 49 00:26:29,360 --> 00:26:36,159 these trees um and my property kind of restored. Um but it's a pain. And then 50 00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:42,559 also on the short-term rental thing, uh I disagree with the tax um as well, but 51 00:26:39,360 --> 00:26:48,000 um I know you guys need revenue. Um I I would say encouraging businesses in the 52 00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:51,279 the county to thrive or or having an environment where they can thrive is 53 00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:56,558 probably going to bring more revenue to the county than making it more expensive 54 00:26:53,840 --> 00:27:00,159 for people to spend the night here. Um, [clears throat] finally, when my 55 00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:05,120 short-term rental came up, uh, for renewal this year, um, I've, this would 56 00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:09,600 have been our third year, I believe, and, um, 57 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:14,000 we were denied based on a new way that the rules were being read. Um, there 58 00:27:11,919 --> 00:27:22,400 wasn't a phone call from anybody. It was just a, you know, blank denied sort of 59 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:25,440 email, uh, generic email. And it seemed like a phone call would be 60 00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:30,240 great. um when you're talking about, you know, you're you're not it like the 61 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:35,200 amount of panic that I'm sure other people are feeling if a new rule if a 62 00:27:32,559 --> 00:27:38,400 existing rule is being read differently. Um and they don't so much as get a phone 63 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:41,760 call. Um >> okay, you'll need to wrap it up. 64 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:44,799 » No problem. Thank you very much. I just would would work, you know, on on making 65 00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:48,880 sure that the community actually feels like they're not being lorded over and 66 00:27:46,559 --> 00:27:51,600 instead that they are being um helped through the the care of their property. 67 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:56,799 Thank you. >> Thank you for your comments. Thanks for 68 00:27:53,039 --> 00:28:00,480 coming. Anyone else? Uh, anyone online? >> We do have quite a few few people 69 00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:03,760 online. Um, if you are online and would like to provide a public comment, please 70 00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:06,760 raise your hand and I will allow you to speak. 71 00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:17,779 Okay, we have uh Chuck. I'm going to move him over. Okay, hold 72 00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:19,799 on one second. [gasps] 73 00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:36,360 Chuck, you can go ahead with your public comment. 74 00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:36,360 » Can't get my timer to work. 75 00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:49,559 » Can't hear him, but he is there. You might have to unmute, Chuck. 76 00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:08,159 I'm not hearing anything from him. Um, Chuck, we can't hear you. We're going to 77 00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:11,760 go to the next person until you find your unmute button. Oh, 78 00:29:09,679 --> 00:29:15,480 » he joined again in a different one. So, let's try that one. 79 00:29:17,039 --> 00:29:20,240 All right, try again. 80 00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:30,880 you're on um a computer, your computer might be muted and not through Zoom. So, 81 00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:34,080 check that your computer isn't muted. >> Computer is not muted. 82 00:29:32,159 --> 00:29:37,279 » There we go. I can hear you now. >> I I I apologize. I'm not good with 83 00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:38,960 computers. >> No. 84 00:29:37,919 --> 00:29:44,080 » Um please [clears throat] tell us your name and approximately where you live 85 00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:47,360 and um give us your comment in three minutes. 86 00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:54,159 » Yes. My name is Chuck Long Henry. I live at St. Mary's Glacier have for about 7 87 00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:59,600 to eight years. I am also on the board of directors for the Metro District as 88 00:29:56,640 --> 00:30:05,760 well as director of operations for Metro St. Mary's district. Um my my comments 89 00:30:03,919 --> 00:30:12,399 would be to put this on a ballot before even 90 00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:16,159 getting public input in a public forum certainly doesn't seem fair. Oh, 91 00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:20,159 » okay. You need to tell us the subject matter you're talking about. 92 00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:25,120 » The STR the STR tax increase. 93 00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:26,399 » Okay. >> So, 94 00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:31,679 » go ahead. >> There's been no public input 95 00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:35,760 in an open setting. There's been no town halls. 96 00:30:33,279 --> 00:30:43,679 The board seems to just think it's okay to go from a 2% tax to a 6% tax. That 97 00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:48,080 tax is going to affect my income and a lot of other people's as well as the 98 00:30:45,919 --> 00:30:55,279 county's income. And this should be put before the voters 99 00:30:51,279 --> 00:31:00,080 of the county and not simply made up and implemented by three county 100 00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:08,240 commissioners. No disrespect meant by that, but this is has far-reaching 101 00:31:03,279 --> 00:31:15,440 implications for STR owners, tourism and money coming into the county. If 102 00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:20,320 somebody can go to Loveland or Summit and they're only paying a 2% tax and 103 00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:25,440 we're paying 6%, they're going to choose that area. So, that's kind of my 104 00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:31,919 comment. I think that this should be tabled until the commissioners hold a 105 00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:38,799 public forum, a town hall style meeting to get the input of the residents that 106 00:31:34,559 --> 00:31:43,919 this affects and then go from there. Uh that's all I have. Thank you. 107 00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:48,240 » Uh thank you uh just for the public's information. Uh if we do decide to move 108 00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:53,440 forward with this, it will be on the ballot. We conducted six town halls 109 00:31:50,559 --> 00:31:58,000 across the county discussing this. Is there anyone else online? 110 00:31:56,640 --> 00:32:02,120 » Um, if you are online would like to provide a comment, please raise your 111 00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:02,120 hand. 112 00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:14,399 Nope. No more hands raised. All right. Thank you. I'm closing public comment. 113 00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:19,600 Uh, first up is the board serving as the local licensing authority. Uh the first 114 00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:27,279 on the ballot is consideration of recision of July 21st, 2026, approval of 115 00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:34,880 change of ownership from XLNY LLC to Mr. Engineering and Automation 116 00:32:31,519 --> 00:32:41,120 LLC, avoiding the license transferred to MR Engineering and Automation LLC, and 117 00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:46,159 reinstating the retail marijuana products manufacturer license in the 118 00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:51,760 name of XLNY LLC. Um, our uh senior parallegal, 119 00:32:50,159 --> 00:32:54,799 Nanette RER. >> Good morning. Thank you for your time 120 00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:59,760 today. So, as the memo indicates, on July 1st, 121 00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:04,880 the board approved a change of ownership for this business from XLNY to MR 122 00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:10,320 Engineering. And at that time, we approved the transferred license for the 123 00:33:06,799 --> 00:33:15,600 same term expiration date to the new owner. And typically, the new owner 124 00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:20,240 comes in and takes possession of the business. Everything works fine and 125 00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:26,159 goodbye and good luck. In this case, because the license was expiring so 126 00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:30,640 quickly and due to a delay in the a significant family event is what we'll 127 00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:36,399 call it, um, for MR Engineering, they are requesting that we resend the change 128 00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:41,279 of ownership to allow XLNY to renew their license, which expires October 129 00:33:38,159 --> 00:33:45,519 23rd. It's just a procedural piece. The MEED has already contingently approved 130 00:33:43,919 --> 00:33:50,399 the [clears throat] transfer as the memo states. This will not affect the 131 00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:54,399 standing with me. This is just a local licensing authority piece to allow XLNY 132 00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:58,720 to renew their license and keep it current until the transfer of ownership 133 00:33:56,480 --> 00:34:02,320 is completed. They are anticipating bringing back the transfer of ownership 134 00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:06,799 application at the first meeting in November to get this completed again to 135 00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:13,520 complete the transfer. So, we're asking the the board kind of 136 00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:18,800 undo, how do we word that, Peter? license transfer, 137 00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:21,599 » restore the license back to XLNY so that they can renew it, 138 00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:25,839 » right? And so typically we would do this administratively with a with a headnot, 139 00:34:23,679 --> 00:34:31,200 not this exact, not the reversal, but the the actual renewals and things. So 140 00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:36,079 I'm actually fine um in terms of procedure if you just do a headnod. So 141 00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:40,800 basically what we are asking is exactly what is stated, what has been stated and 142 00:34:38,720 --> 00:34:44,560 we just like administrative approval for that. Typically the chair would be the 143 00:34:42,399 --> 00:34:48,079 one, but in light of the unique circumstances, we just would probably 144 00:34:46,399 --> 00:34:50,800 just want head knots from all the board members. 145 00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:55,119 » Um, here's mine. >> There's yours. That's good. Okay. 146 00:34:54,159 --> 00:34:57,680 » Excellent. Thank you. >> Thank you. 147 00:34:55,760 --> 00:35:04,880 » Thank you. >> Moving on. 148 00:35:00,240 --> 00:35:12,560 Uh, TKN Industries LLC doing business as the Tricom Collective. Uh, 149 00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:17,119 » go ahead. Okay, this is a standard renewal of the licenses held by TKN 150 00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:20,720 Industries LLC. They have a retail marijuana products manufacturing and a 151 00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:24,560 medical marijuana infused products manufacturing licenses. All the 152 00:35:22,720 --> 00:35:27,040 departments have indicated their approval for the renewal. So, we would 153 00:35:26,079 --> 00:35:31,200 recommend that the chair administratively approve the renewals of 154 00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:36,320 these licenses. >> Okay. Uh, may I have a motion? 155 00:35:34,240 --> 00:35:38,160 » No motions needed. Just a headnob. Same thing. 156 00:35:36,720 --> 00:35:42,079 » Here's my headnob. I mean, we call it a headnob, but really we're memorializing 157 00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:45,920 it for the record. Yeah. >> Excellent. Thank you very much. 158 00:35:43,599 --> 00:35:49,200 » Thank you for your work. >> All right, we're back in regular session 159 00:35:47,839 --> 00:35:53,599 as the Clear Creek Board of County Commissioners. Uh, starting with a 160 00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:56,720 communication update. Megan Hiler Wilson. 161 00:35:54,480 --> 00:36:01,359 » All right, thank you. We've got a few ones here today. Um, I do want to point 162 00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:06,480 out that tonight Evergreen Fire Rescue is hosting an evacuation planning 163 00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:10,720 workshop that's happening from 6:00 p.m. to 9:00 p.m. And that'll be at the high 164 00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:13,200 school middle school um in Evergreen. So, if you want to learn, ask questions, 165 00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:15,200 um, anything, >> sorry, Evergreen High School or Floyd 166 00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:18,079 Hill High School? >> No, Clear Creek High School in 167 00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:21,680 Evergreen. Yep. Right on the hill right there. Um, yeah, no worries. So, if you 168 00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:25,680 have any questions or anything like that about evacuation, fires, or anything 169 00:36:23,599 --> 00:36:28,960 like that, go there. they'd love to answer your questions, teach you some 170 00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:34,640 things, um all that kind of fun stuff. And then, um also, um on the same topic 171 00:36:31,839 --> 00:36:39,839 of fires, Clear Creek County is now in stage one fire restrictions. This still 172 00:36:37,359 --> 00:36:42,960 means we're in fire restrictions. So, um if you want to know what that entails, 173 00:36:41,839 --> 00:36:46,560 uh you can go to our website. It's right at the top on the alerts and you can 174 00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:50,079 read about the rules. So, we still need to be cognizant that we are still in 175 00:36:48,240 --> 00:36:54,880 fire restrictions, Clare Creek County. All right. Uh last thing, um I want to 176 00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:58,560 point out how you can see old, uh Clear Creek County Commissioner meetings. Um 177 00:36:56,880 --> 00:37:03,280 you can see them on YouTube or on our Facebook page or you can see them on our 178 00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:10,560 website. I'm going to share I was going to share my screen 179 00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:14,240 um so I can show you really quick. All right. So if you head 180 00:37:12,240 --> 00:37:18,000 to our website, see this here on the left? We just redid the website last 181 00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:21,920 year and I made it so it's super easy. If you click on public meetings, you can 182 00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:26,480 see all of our past public meetings. You can see their recordings. You can see 183 00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:29,680 their agendas. Um, and see right here it says board of county commissioners in 184 00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:33,599 session. That's the meeting we're in right now. So, it streams live on our 185 00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:36,720 website. So, it's sorted by date. You can go through there. If you have any 186 00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:41,040 questions, please reach out to me. I want everyone who's watching this. And I 187 00:37:39,119 --> 00:37:44,000 want every resident to know that you can find these on your own. And we are not 188 00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:46,720 trying to hide anything. Everything is online. We have to show you. So, 189 00:37:45,599 --> 00:37:49,920 anyways, if you have any questions, email me. I'm happy to point it out. But 190 00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:54,240 there you go. That's all I got. >> Thank you, Megan. County Commissioner 191 00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:58,160 updates. Who would like to go first today? 192 00:37:55,839 --> 00:38:03,599 » You can go first. Uh first off, we had the employee recognition. We had a good 193 00:38:00,240 --> 00:38:09,200 time um visiting with staff and recognizing those that were nominated. 194 00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:14,320 Um Rebecca and I attended the Dr. Cog ceremony. Uh there were a lot of great 195 00:38:11,839 --> 00:38:20,960 projects that were um awarded there as well. and I attended the C3 Fest for the 196 00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:25,599 emergency services. A lot of community came out. It was nice to see the kids, 197 00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:32,800 get to see all the emergency vehicles and talked to the um staff. Uh and then 198 00:38:29,359 --> 00:38:38,240 we had our last town hall that uh was up in Floyd Hill. That was uh pretty good 199 00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:42,560 attended, good questions, and um that was the last of our town halls. So, 200 00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:48,640 we're done with all of those. and we did have six of those to get input and have 201 00:38:45,599 --> 00:38:52,160 conversations with our community. And that's it for me. 202 00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:59,599 » Thank you, George. >> Morning, colleagues. Um, shorter list. 203 00:38:56,240 --> 00:39:03,680 Thankfully, we've got a lot today. Um, on the 15th, we are going to be 204 00:39:01,839 --> 00:39:09,280 discussing several statewide ballot measures for a position. You may have 205 00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:14,800 seen the news that uh, Initiative 175 will not be on the ballot. that was the 206 00:39:12,240 --> 00:39:18,640 uh road funding measure. So, I'm asking that we obviously don't 207 00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:23,920 need to consider a position on that. And initiative 195, I had not mentioned to 208 00:39:21,119 --> 00:39:27,599 you. It had not caught my attention. Um I'm asking that we add that one to the 209 00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:33,119 agenda if it's okay with you. Initiative 195 would require local law enforcement 210 00:39:30,240 --> 00:39:37,359 to uh coordinate with ICE for the purposes of immigration enforcement. uh 211 00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:41,599 we can discuss what the position should be, but I wanted to ask you for consent 212 00:39:39,119 --> 00:39:44,760 to put initiative 195 on the agenda for the 15th. 213 00:39:47,119 --> 00:39:50,800 » I see Jody with a thumbs up. >> Oh, sorry. 214 00:39:50,240 --> 00:39:57,280 » Yes. >> Okay. Um second, I just want to let you 215 00:39:53,280 --> 00:40:00,480 know I've had a lot of SDR outreach um over the years. Have have had a lot of 216 00:39:59,359 --> 00:40:05,520 conversations with a lot of different operators as we've gone through several 217 00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:08,800 iterations of rules. Um, just wanted to know that a lot of people have reached 218 00:40:07,839 --> 00:40:15,680 out and I've had a lot of good conversations. Um, 219 00:40:11,839 --> 00:40:20,240 next, uh, we did the Click Creek Wershed Forest Health Partnership did a fire 220 00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:24,720 mitigation tour. Um, projects in different phases from we just finished 221 00:40:22,240 --> 00:40:28,000 to we're kind of in the middle to this is what it looks like when we know we 222 00:40:26,079 --> 00:40:33,520 have work to do. Really, really great tour. All of the metro area um, news 223 00:40:31,599 --> 00:40:38,320 agencies were there. There was a lot of television news from it. There was a 224 00:40:35,599 --> 00:40:42,160 Denver Post oped. Uh, one of the statements in that op-ed was that it's 225 00:40:40,079 --> 00:40:44,480 very clear that the metro area has to figure out how to get work done in the 226 00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:48,800 small counties >> that they rely on. 227 00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:53,040 » Um, so that was a really great time and um um you can see some news about it. 228 00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:58,898 And then just lastly, I just want to compliment the sheriff on uh his 229 00:40:55,520 --> 00:41:03,119 approach to the fire ban. [clears throat] 230 00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:08,640 Um he was collaborative. he went in with the forest service which is I think on 231 00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:13,200 our way down best practice. Um and so just want to give a shout out that to 232 00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:18,079 the sheriff that um especially the first adjustment after our new ordinance I 233 00:41:16,319 --> 00:41:21,760 kind of had my eyes on whether that how that was going to go and I think it went 234 00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:26,720 really well. So compliments to Ron Paul and that is all for me. 235 00:41:23,119 --> 00:41:32,720 » Thank you. Uh quickly the all three of us attended the um Colorado County's 236 00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:40,000 Inc. meeting in Leadville uh to discuss upcoming legislation. 237 00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:46,240 Uh all three of us had a um a seed dot tour and an Argo visit with Congressman 238 00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:52,800 Nagus and Congressman Rascin. Uh I attended the Central City Clear 239 00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:57,040 Creek Super Fund site update with uh EPA and Colorado Department of Public Health 240 00:41:54,880 --> 00:42:02,800 and the Environment. Uh you might have noticed we had an 241 00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:07,760 extra BOCC meeting uh last month. Uh that was to uh make sure we're able to 242 00:42:06,079 --> 00:42:15,280 uh conduct all the business we needed to conduct without uh staying here till 243 00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:20,000 9:00 at night. Uh we had um uh Jod and I attended the Dr. Cog the Denver Regional 244 00:42:17,839 --> 00:42:24,880 Council of Government's Awards dinner in Denver 245 00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:28,480 and uh we all or Jod and I at least I could see you there. um [clears throat] 246 00:42:26,240 --> 00:42:33,040 attended the C3 Fest at the ball fields in Idaho Springs which was put on by our 247 00:42:30,319 --> 00:42:38,319 safety organizations and it was a really great family event. Um lots of kids were 248 00:42:36,079 --> 00:42:42,880 there ooing and eyeing over the big equipment and I think they picked up a 249 00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:50,240 lot of good information about uh fire safety and um 250 00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:54,560 uh you know safety from crime. uh they were giving out uh what do they call 251 00:42:52,869 --> 00:42:59,359 [clears throat] lowjacks or something to attach to your steering wheel to prevent 252 00:42:56,640 --> 00:43:04,640 your car from being stolen. So if you missed it this year, come next year. Uh 253 00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:09,280 we all attended the employee recognition lunchon at Loveland Ski Area thanks to 254 00:43:06,720 --> 00:43:14,240 Loveland. We had a great dinner and uh when the rain came, they brought us all 255 00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:20,480 inside so we could um continue the celebration. 256 00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:20,480 And that's all for me. Thank you. 257 00:43:21,119 --> 00:43:28,319 Uh, county manager updates, rolloffs. >> Um, not a lot. Um, we are still working 258 00:43:26,240 --> 00:43:32,400 on some of the road system from the rain we've been having. Um, which has kind of 259 00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:36,640 put us a little bit behind on some other stuff. Um, but we're going as fast as we 260 00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:39,920 can. One thing I did want to mention is that leaf peeping might be coming very 261 00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:44,960 early this year, >> midepptember. 262 00:43:41,839 --> 00:43:48,880 So just for the our our residents and any visiting public like the management 263 00:43:47,119 --> 00:43:52,160 plan that you know happened last year will probably happen again in some 264 00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:58,079 extent maybe not to the scale because we're not expecting as much color in 265 00:43:54,640 --> 00:44:02,960 general. However, you know prepare for what that feels like on the weekends. 266 00:44:00,079 --> 00:44:07,119 You know um we'll manage as best we can but you know it you know I think our 267 00:44:04,720 --> 00:44:13,520 peak day our peak weekend last year was was 50,000 people. So [clears throat] 268 00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:17,359 » um on Guanella Pass alone. So that doesn't include all the other places in 269 00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:23,119 the county where the leaves change. So um we're we're working towards um 270 00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:27,920 finalizing that management plan again like similar to last year. 271 00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:32,280 » Thank you. >> Um that's it for me. 272 00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:32,280 » All right. 273 00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:43,040 We are early for um a CPR context contest winner. 274 00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:46,319 Are are you handling that or were you waiting for someone? 275 00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:48,800 » Uh they were supposed to be here. I know Mayor Harmon was supposed to be here. 276 00:44:48,079 --> 00:44:53,880 » Okay. >> Well Well, let let's wait for them. Um 277 00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:28,440 approved enough to actually 278 00:46:28,480 --> 00:46:31,880 sign any. 279 00:46:32,079 --> 00:46:36,920 Okay, let me just turn the other camera back on. 280 00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:19,040 Board of County Commissioners is back in session after a brief uh power outage. 281 00:47:16,160 --> 00:47:23,520 Um moving on to um we're going to skip item eight for 282 00:47:21,359 --> 00:47:27,960 now just because we're ahead of schedule. We will return to that. 283 00:47:30,079 --> 00:47:38,359 Uh, moving on to the consent agenda. Uh, does anything need to be pulled? 284 00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:43,599 » I'm going to suggest that you read it first and if anything needs to be 285 00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:49,280 pulled. >> All right. Uh, consent agenda. Item A, 286 00:47:47,359 --> 00:47:54,560 consideration of approval of the warrant register. Item B, consideration of 287 00:47:52,800 --> 00:48:00,400 approval of written minutes for the board of county commissioners meetings 288 00:47:56,319 --> 00:48:06,240 for January 20th, 2026, February 3rd, 2026, 289 00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:13,040 February 10th, 2026, February 17th, 2026, and February 24th, 290 00:48:11,359 --> 00:48:18,079 2026. Item C, consideration of letter of 291 00:48:15,599 --> 00:48:24,319 support nomination for Clear Creek County Ambulance Service of the Year. 292 00:48:21,359 --> 00:48:27,520 Item D, consideration of approval of the employment agreement with the county 293 00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:32,160 attorney. Item F, consideration of approval of the 294 00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:41,599 employment agreement with the county manager. Item G, consideration of 295 00:48:35,599 --> 00:48:46,000 approval of contact contract for PW26-03 pavement marking project with D2 296 00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:52,000 striping. Item H, consideration of acceptance of 297 00:48:49,359 --> 00:48:59,040 public road easements granted by the United States Forest Service for Little 298 00:48:54,640 --> 00:49:06,880 Bear Creek Road, uh, County Road 151, Raven Ridge Road, County Road 422, 299 00:49:03,359 --> 00:49:12,640 Van Eden Road, Morrison Lane, County Road 232, 300 00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:19,160 South Spring Gulch Road, County Road 130, and Cinton Road, County wrote 470 301 00:49:21,119 --> 00:49:28,880 and uh I skipped D, excuse me. Consideration of approval of 302 00:49:26,720 --> 00:49:34,559 intergovernmental agreement regarding Proposition 123, shared affordable 303 00:49:32,559 --> 00:49:40,960 housing credits. Moving on to item I, consideration of 304 00:49:39,040 --> 00:49:45,920 approval of a statement of work with the Colorado Department of Public Health and 305 00:49:43,359 --> 00:49:52,000 Environment regarding implementation of the Child Fatality Prevention Act and 306 00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:57,839 Maternal Child Health. Thank you. Uh, may I have a motion? 307 00:49:55,599 --> 00:50:00,160 » Move we approve the consent agenda as read. 308 00:49:58,880 --> 00:50:05,040 » Any discussion? >> Um, just we need a second. 309 00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:08,000 » Oh, sorry. Any second? Uh second. Any discussion? 310 00:50:06,400 --> 00:50:14,880 » Thank you. >> Um couple comments. Um item C just EMS 311 00:50:12,800 --> 00:50:18,800 has been nominated for the ambulance service of the year through MSAC. That's 312 00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:23,359 not a small thing. There are a lot of EMS agencies. Of course, we think ours 313 00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:27,839 is the best and best of luck to them. It's an excellent letter. Thank you, 314 00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:32,079 Colton. Um and then I'm just glad to see us deepening our relationships with uh 315 00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:38,160 other jurisdictions around housing. Item D. um is a great step um in the right 316 00:50:35,680 --> 00:50:41,599 direction there. >> That's all for me. 317 00:50:39,040 --> 00:50:44,640 » Thank you, Jody. Any discussion? >> Okay. All right. All in favor? I 318 00:50:44,160 --> 00:50:49,119 » I >> I 319 00:50:45,359 --> 00:50:55,520 » uh consent and agenda is approved. And we have some people in the hallway. 320 00:50:52,319 --> 00:50:59,599 Are they here for >> item eight CPR contest winner? 321 00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:03,319 » Yes. But let me check if Clark is going to be here. 322 00:51:00,319 --> 00:51:03,319 » Okay. 323 00:51:19,440 --> 00:51:22,680 just as 324 00:51:25,839 --> 00:51:31,680 you can move on to the next one while we're waiting if you want. 325 00:51:29,680 --> 00:51:38,000 Possible. >> Sure. 326 00:51:33,680 --> 00:51:43,200 All right. Um, moving on to the board of county commissioners action items. 327 00:51:40,559 --> 00:51:48,400 Consideration of approval of resolution 26-55 328 00:51:45,680 --> 00:51:54,079 resolution providing for the submission registered qualified electors of 329 00:51:51,119 --> 00:51:58,800 unincorporated Clear Creek County and the incorporated municipalities within 330 00:51:56,400 --> 00:52:03,680 the county except for the town of Georgetown. A question authorizing an 331 00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:10,319 increase in the county's existing lodging tax from 2% to 6% to provide 332 00:52:08,160 --> 00:52:15,359 funding for public infrastructure maintenance or improvements, public 333 00:52:12,559 --> 00:52:21,119 safety, child care and housing for the tourism related workforce and 334 00:52:17,760 --> 00:52:27,200 advertising and marketing local tourism. said question to be submitted at the 335 00:52:23,119 --> 00:52:32,640 election to be held November 3rd, 2026, prescribing the form of ballot question 336 00:52:29,680 --> 00:52:37,119 for submission at said election and providing for certification of the 337 00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:42,559 election question the county clerk and recorder. 338 00:52:39,680 --> 00:52:45,559 Do we have uh a motion for that approval? 339 00:52:49,359 --> 00:52:54,880 Um, I thought we might have some discussion. 340 00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:59,599 » I thought I had to move and have it seconded and then the discussion. 341 00:52:56,480 --> 00:53:02,880 » Yeah, generally we get a motion second and then discussion and then if it 342 00:53:01,440 --> 00:53:06,319 discussion doesn't go there, the motion either fails and you do another motion 343 00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:09,280 or you can amend the motion. >> I don't know how my colleagues would 344 00:53:07,599 --> 00:53:14,240 know what kind of motion I have in mind without discussion. 345 00:53:12,160 --> 00:53:17,280 » I just read it. you it >> I mean I I what if I want to change the 346 00:53:16,079 --> 00:53:23,359 ballot language? >> You you can move then you don't have to 347 00:53:20,160 --> 00:53:29,440 make a motion either. I mean that's it it's fine. We don't follow Robert's 348 00:53:26,079 --> 00:53:32,160 rules per strictly. So that's absolutely fine if you just want to have a 349 00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:33,520 discussion that's okay. I'm not going to worry 350 00:53:33,200 --> 00:53:37,280 » okay >> procedurally either but typically what 351 00:53:35,440 --> 00:53:43,599 would happen is you would move get a second. Move to approve, move to deny, 352 00:53:41,119 --> 00:53:46,400 you know, and then you have a discussion and that's where you have the discussion 353 00:53:44,880 --> 00:53:50,079 and then you make a friendly amendment to 354 00:53:47,359 --> 00:53:53,359 » George. Are you moving to deny? >> I am not making a motion. 355 00:53:52,480 --> 00:53:56,559 » George can make a motion. >> So if I make a motion, do I need to read 356 00:53:54,800 --> 00:53:59,200 the whole thing again since she did or motion? 357 00:53:57,119 --> 00:54:02,000 » I think you can based on that you can move to approve as indicated on the 358 00:54:01,280 --> 00:54:05,119 record. >> I'll move to approve as indicated on the 359 00:54:04,079 --> 00:54:11,880 record. >> Uh do I have a second? second. 360 00:54:07,839 --> 00:54:11,880 » Uh, any further discussion? 361 00:54:16,160 --> 00:54:23,119 » Yes, colleagues, I wanted to just I think I think there's a lot of value 362 00:54:20,800 --> 00:54:26,240 associated with having a discussion about whether this should be on the 363 00:54:24,240 --> 00:54:30,079 ballot, putting it on the record, describing the process we went through 364 00:54:27,839 --> 00:54:33,760 to get here. I would not have been offended by a staff presentation about 365 00:54:32,000 --> 00:54:40,640 that. Um, but I think we can put it together. Um I so I just want to explain 366 00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:45,200 why I sort of started this hearing the way I did. Um 367 00:54:43,520 --> 00:54:50,400 colleagues, I've heard from a lot of folks about this. Um there are 368 00:54:47,920 --> 00:54:54,960 short-term rental operators that we we all heard. I don't need to reiterate 369 00:54:51,839 --> 00:55:01,599 their points. Um one of the things I want to share is that I think 370 00:54:58,880 --> 00:55:08,319 we have also a work session on the short-term rental rules. Um, 371 00:55:05,760 --> 00:55:14,960 and I think that there are fair comments being made about 372 00:55:11,200 --> 00:55:23,040 the combination of going from 2% to 6%, the fees and the regulatory um, hurdles. 373 00:55:20,160 --> 00:55:25,839 Um, and so Peter, you're going to tell me that we 374 00:55:24,319 --> 00:55:30,400 should not discuss these two things at the same time. Definitely not in any 375 00:55:27,599 --> 00:55:38,480 complexity. Um, but I do think that I I do support this measure. The public 376 00:55:32,559 --> 00:55:43,760 clearly um sees value as well. Um they see value in trying to help our 377 00:55:41,200 --> 00:55:47,440 visitors, trying to find a way for our visitors to help us pay for public 378 00:55:45,280 --> 00:55:56,079 safety and infrastructure. They see value in us investing in housing and in 379 00:55:50,160 --> 00:56:01,680 child care. Um and the stakeholders that are lodging entities 380 00:55:58,319 --> 00:56:06,480 themselves clearly value marketing investments. Um and while I 381 00:56:05,040 --> 00:56:11,119 wanted to comment a little bit on that while uh these this letter this formal 382 00:56:09,440 --> 00:56:17,760 objection we have which we got yesterday and I read much more carefully the 383 00:56:14,720 --> 00:56:22,799 version that we got a couple weeks ago but I did respond to that email to 384 00:56:19,599 --> 00:56:28,240 clarify um this states that 385 00:56:25,760 --> 00:56:34,079 the overall amount of funds allocated from the tax to promote tourism will go 386 00:56:31,200 --> 00:56:37,040 down. Um, colleagues, in my response, I just I want you to know that I shared my 387 00:56:35,760 --> 00:56:42,720 recollection of the public meetings we've had to date or that our intent is 388 00:56:39,839 --> 00:56:48,559 actually the opposite. Um, going from language that says you can use no more 389 00:56:44,720 --> 00:56:53,599 than 40% of a 2% collection to saying we can we have to use at least 10% of a 6% 390 00:56:50,960 --> 00:57:00,079 collection um, enables the board legally to spend more on taxing on marketing 391 00:56:57,040 --> 00:57:04,960 than we have in the past. Um and I remember discussions 392 00:57:02,960 --> 00:57:08,640 particularly in the work session in May around wanting to make sure that in a 393 00:57:07,200 --> 00:57:14,319 down year we can increase that percentage um so that the tourism bureau 394 00:57:11,119 --> 00:57:18,000 board can stay whole organization. Um and wanting to have the flexibility 395 00:57:16,160 --> 00:57:23,200 if we find like a marketing initiative that we think is high impact or 396 00:57:19,520 --> 00:57:25,920 particularly meaningful. Um so I wanted to provide that 397 00:57:24,240 --> 00:57:31,920 clarification and I just want to pause there. Am I am I wrong as far as the 398 00:57:29,200 --> 00:57:37,440 intent of the board would be to in the budget should this pass or not to try to 399 00:57:34,880 --> 00:57:41,799 budget to the tourism bureau approximately what we did last year? 400 00:57:41,839 --> 00:57:49,799 Am I misremembering the conversation in our work session in May? 401 00:57:45,359 --> 00:57:49,799 » No, you're correct. Um, 402 00:57:49,839 --> 00:57:58,240 I too have had those conversations and when I talk to the short-term rental um 403 00:57:56,240 --> 00:58:03,920 community, I also say, what if in a world we could have the tourism board 404 00:58:01,040 --> 00:58:08,480 work more for the short-term rental um and get them filled up instead of just 405 00:58:06,079 --> 00:58:13,520 maybe on weekends or what they have now. I think that this measure um could work 406 00:58:11,599 --> 00:58:19,040 for everybody so that we have more money to put towards the tourism, towards 407 00:58:15,839 --> 00:58:23,359 housing and child care and then have more for our budget instead of and and 408 00:58:21,040 --> 00:58:27,520 that does leave a little bit of fluid talk like so if you needed more it's up 409 00:58:25,760 --> 00:58:29,680 to Right. >> No, no, it's um 410 00:58:29,119 --> 00:58:32,720 » at least >> at least 411 00:58:30,000 --> 00:58:38,000 » at least. Yeah. So that's right. um at least so as things change, if you have 412 00:58:36,079 --> 00:58:44,960 harder years, you can change that a little bit. Um I like that idea because 413 00:58:41,520 --> 00:58:49,119 when I see things advertised, I I do think we can do better. Um and hopefully 414 00:58:48,000 --> 00:58:55,040 that's a goal that we're working towards, 415 00:58:51,280 --> 00:59:00,000 » right? And and it it benefits us all to have a healthy short-term rental um 416 00:58:58,480 --> 00:59:07,839 business. And we also, it benefits us all to have 417 00:59:04,559 --> 00:59:14,720 adequate public safety resources to help take care of our visitors who um might 418 00:59:11,599 --> 00:59:21,520 have accidents on our 14ers or even downtown or in their vehicles driving 419 00:59:17,359 --> 00:59:28,160 through. So, I think this is a help for the community at large. Thank you. Any 420 00:59:26,079 --> 00:59:32,960 further discussion? Yeah, I wanted to ask um one of these bullets, this is a 421 00:59:30,160 --> 00:59:38,240 question for you, Peter. Um, one of these bullets say that there are legal 422 00:59:35,119 --> 00:59:42,319 concerns that remain unresol unresolved, including 423 00:59:39,760 --> 00:59:45,839 a lack of transparency, missing written BOCC 424 00:59:43,839 --> 00:59:48,839 meeting minutes. Um, 425 00:59:48,880 --> 00:59:55,520 are you aware of any legal requirements? Peter, I'm looking at the second bullet 426 00:59:53,200 --> 01:00:01,839 on the second page. Are you aware of any legal requirements that we have not met 427 00:59:59,920 --> 01:00:05,119 » with regard to minutes and open meetings? 428 01:00:02,640 --> 01:00:08,400 » Any anything procedurally that that is required for us to be able to legally 429 01:00:07,200 --> 01:00:12,960 put this on the ballot? >> No. Um, we 430 01:00:11,200 --> 01:00:17,839 comply with the appropriateness of the ballot language. It's consistent with 431 01:00:15,839 --> 01:00:23,920 you would see in other counties as well on similar ballots. Um, it complies with 432 01:00:20,559 --> 01:00:30,799 Taber. The notice is appropriate. I read the um submission that is in the 433 01:00:27,680 --> 01:00:36,640 public record from the travel alliance and I'm sorry if I'm getting their name 434 01:00:32,319 --> 01:00:41,680 wrong and um their concern even about endorsement of this through the fair 435 01:00:38,559 --> 01:00:46,640 campaign practices act. Um again we're we're covered by Colorado's requirements 436 01:00:44,640 --> 01:00:50,240 as well which is different from the Fair Campaign Practices Act but I'm not 437 01:00:48,720 --> 01:00:55,680 concerned about any of that. As far as the minutes go, um I saw a comment that 438 01:00:53,760 --> 01:01:00,319 some of these minutes were not online. I do believe that is something that we are 439 01:00:57,520 --> 01:01:04,720 looking into because when the county changed its um when we updated the 440 01:01:03,040 --> 01:01:08,480 website essentially to include all of the accessibility aspects, everything 441 01:01:07,040 --> 01:01:12,400 that happened, you may recall that initially we took things down to make 442 01:01:10,240 --> 01:01:17,440 sure we were not in violation. And so it's a gradual process to get them back 443 01:01:14,319 --> 01:01:20,880 up. Um, and I I'll absolutely the county manager can speak to those efforts as 444 01:01:18,880 --> 01:01:26,720 well, but I want to assure you that those those minutes will be back up and 445 01:01:23,599 --> 01:01:32,319 available in the interim. Fortunately, um, our Zoom our board meetings are 446 01:01:29,920 --> 01:01:37,280 handled via Zoom and they are then also simalcast um on YouTube for the record. 447 01:01:35,520 --> 01:01:41,680 So, if somebody went back, they can search for a date. Sometimes YouTube is 448 01:01:39,359 --> 01:01:46,000 a little quirky in finding that date, but Megan's always available to be able 449 01:01:43,920 --> 01:01:50,640 to at least send somebody a link if need be. If for some reason one of our board 450 01:01:48,720 --> 01:01:54,720 meetings has not made it to the YouTube link, then we can just correct that by 451 01:01:52,960 --> 01:01:58,000 getting it added up. >> I will add if I you if you don't mind, 452 01:01:56,559 --> 01:02:01,280 yeah, like you said, YouTube can kind of be weird and especially when you stream 453 01:01:59,520 --> 01:02:06,079 them live, it doesn't really sort them by date. So, I would recommend, like I 454 01:02:04,000 --> 01:02:09,440 showed in my um update, going to the website, clicking on public meetings, 455 01:02:07,760 --> 01:02:13,359 and then you can search by date, and if you click on a meeting, it's got the 456 01:02:11,359 --> 01:02:18,559 agenda and the recording on there right there. So, I would recommend doing that. 457 01:02:16,079 --> 01:02:22,720 » But anyway, the the comments of of the alliance are well taken, understood. But 458 01:02:20,480 --> 01:02:26,640 I if anything, I appreciate the ability to doublech checkck everything that has 459 01:02:24,799 --> 01:02:30,000 been asked about. So, I think we're good. 460 01:02:28,160 --> 01:02:33,200 And as far as the minutes go, we are we are working to get them approved and 461 01:02:31,359 --> 01:02:38,720 back online. We are a little behind. Um we were we do have the full stream 462 01:02:35,920 --> 01:02:43,200 online, so that's a much more thorough examination of everything that happened 463 01:02:40,240 --> 01:02:49,359 in that meeting than summarized minutes. Um but yeah, we um 464 01:02:47,280 --> 01:02:52,960 I will take personal responsibility. We did not give it the priority it probably 465 01:02:51,040 --> 01:02:57,760 deserves. And I think in cases like this, it can create a little bit of a, 466 01:02:55,359 --> 01:03:02,160 you know, element of confusion. and you know, so we'll get that corrected as 467 01:02:59,280 --> 01:03:06,400 soon as we can. >> Thank you, Jody. Any questions? 468 01:03:04,480 --> 01:03:12,880 » No, I just wanted to say to when people say that we're just going from 2 to 6%, 469 01:03:08,880 --> 01:03:19,039 we are putting it on a ballot for the um community outside of Georgetown to vote 470 01:03:15,119 --> 01:03:23,599 on this. If this is from 2 to 6, we're not strictly deciding that on our own. 471 01:03:21,280 --> 01:03:26,400 This is just letting the voters decide that, 472 01:03:24,079 --> 01:03:31,839 » right? As is required by Taber, >> right? 473 01:03:28,160 --> 01:03:38,559 » All right. Any further comments? Um one comment from um for me was that uh and 474 01:03:35,599 --> 01:03:44,079 maybe this was addressed or or mentioned um the aspect of community engagement as 475 01:03:41,839 --> 01:03:49,760 the board had mentioned um the chair mentioned there were what six town halls 476 01:03:47,680 --> 01:03:54,720 which this was one of the discussion or topics but additionally um and if I if 477 01:03:53,119 --> 01:03:59,440 this was referenced you had the survey that went out to the community as well 478 01:03:57,359 --> 01:04:05,039 um and that survey informed the board the board's uh decisions here or 479 01:04:03,119 --> 01:04:09,119 determinations of where they wanted to go. So, I just since George had 480 01:04:07,039 --> 01:04:12,720 mentioned staff presentation, I just wanted to throw that in there. 481 01:04:10,559 --> 01:04:19,440 » It's Thank you. Good point. >> Um I I do have some other one of the I 482 01:04:18,000 --> 01:04:23,920 don't think it was in in this one. It was in a previous outreach maybe a 483 01:04:21,680 --> 01:04:33,599 couple weeks ago. Um there was the suggestion that we propose going from 2% 484 01:04:28,240 --> 01:04:39,039 to 4%. Um and see how that affects the industry um with a subsequent increase 485 01:04:36,720 --> 01:04:44,000 later if we see that it is not affecting the industry. I just wanted to address 486 01:04:41,039 --> 01:04:47,839 that. Um I think the legal analysis and Peter I'm looking at you to correct me 487 01:04:45,680 --> 01:04:53,599 if I'm wrong. I think the legal analysis is that voter authorization to collect 488 01:04:50,400 --> 01:04:56,960 up to 6% is not a requirement. The board could reduce that rate if we see 489 01:04:55,359 --> 01:05:00,480 evidence that we are harming that industry or that that that tax rate is 490 01:04:58,880 --> 01:05:07,520 harming that industry. >> I So that that is correct. So this this 491 01:05:04,559 --> 01:05:13,760 ballot language will allow the board to determine a rate up to 6%. Up to and 492 01:05:11,359 --> 01:05:20,960 including 6%. The board doesn't have to do that, but I do need to note that if 493 01:05:16,880 --> 01:05:26,240 the board starts at 4%. It is likely we would need to go back to 494 01:05:22,960 --> 01:05:31,119 the voters for the board to then go up to 6% at a later time because once you 495 01:05:28,480 --> 01:05:36,799 establish a rate wherever you land on that, um the question as to whether that 496 01:05:34,240 --> 01:05:40,720 increase in taxes, even though it's by the board, still requires voter 497 01:05:39,039 --> 01:05:45,839 authorization notwithstanding the language. So we would if anything as far 498 01:05:43,599 --> 01:05:49,920 as a practic practical standpoint you would either start at four and just stay 499 01:05:47,359 --> 01:05:55,599 at four or go down or you would start at six and go down or stay. Um but going 500 01:05:53,520 --> 01:06:00,720 the reverse doesn't really work. >> Thank you. 501 01:05:57,920 --> 01:06:05,359 » All right. May I have uh >> um well there there's one other thing 502 01:06:02,640 --> 01:06:09,440 that I think is worth discussing and um you stated it 503 01:06:07,920 --> 01:06:14,480 after well I guess two people are just out of the moment. Um, you stated after 504 01:06:11,920 --> 01:06:19,839 the public comment, I just want to 505 01:06:16,000 --> 01:06:25,119 reiterate, um, we had six town halls this summer. We brought it up and asked 506 01:06:22,240 --> 01:06:30,720 for feedback in all six town halls. Um, we have discussed this extensively with, 507 01:06:28,400 --> 01:06:35,440 um, municipal leadership. Mayor of Idaho Springs is in the room. Um, he we're not 508 01:06:33,520 --> 01:06:40,799 going to ask him to confirm that here. Um, but I also I just want to talk a 509 01:06:38,000 --> 01:06:44,480 little bit about the assertions about how 510 01:06:42,480 --> 01:06:49,680 lodging taxes are being used for marketing. There's an assertion in here 511 01:06:46,480 --> 01:06:53,599 that lodging taxes are not being used to good effect in Clare Creek County with 512 01:06:51,359 --> 01:06:57,200 the lodging taxes. Um, I'm looking at our tourism bureau 513 01:06:55,200 --> 01:07:01,746 director, uh, >> who is in just wrapped up her first year 514 01:06:59,760 --> 01:07:04,880 as tourism director. >> [laughter] 515 01:07:02,319 --> 01:07:08,240 » Um, I don't disagree that we had a bad 516 01:07:06,720 --> 01:07:12,480 marketing strategy for decades in Click Creek County. I do disagree that we have 517 01:07:10,400 --> 01:07:15,039 a bad marketing strategy today. And I want to encourage anybody that's 518 01:07:13,760 --> 01:07:21,359 interested in understanding more about that marketing strategy to uh, tune in 519 01:07:18,079 --> 01:07:26,319 for our agenda item uh, that is talking about that updated marketing strategy 520 01:07:23,680 --> 01:07:30,319 and everything that we did. Um, or contact the tourism bureau board itself. 521 01:07:28,240 --> 01:07:35,520 I want to make sure that lodgers know that they are eligible to serve on the 522 01:07:32,160 --> 01:07:40,559 tourism bureau board and and direct marketing efforts. I also want to share 523 01:07:38,240 --> 01:07:46,559 that conversations about marketing specific businesses are pretty thorny. 524 01:07:43,039 --> 01:07:50,160 Uh we tend to in marketing focus on trying to get more people into our 525 01:07:48,319 --> 01:07:54,640 economy and be fairly neutral about where they land specifically in our 526 01:07:51,680 --> 01:08:01,440 economy. So, I don't know that it would be a great strategy or um 527 01:07:59,599 --> 01:08:05,440 have the right impact to say, you know, we want you to go to this specific 528 01:08:02,559 --> 01:08:10,640 short-term rental here or to like boost Airbnb's website. Um, so I wanted to 529 01:08:09,039 --> 01:08:14,160 sort of address that too. My intent here is just to address some of the highle 530 01:08:12,559 --> 01:08:19,679 concerns. I think that's the last one that's worth mentioning. Um, otherwise, 531 01:08:16,319 --> 01:08:25,679 I mean, this is pretty clear to me that, and I know I'm not the only one, um, 532 01:08:22,560 --> 01:08:29,920 when I ran for office, I told voters that I would not cut services without 533 01:08:28,480 --> 01:08:34,799 giving them the opportunity to pay for those services first. 534 01:08:32,159 --> 01:08:38,560 This is implementing that promise. We are offering voters the option to find 535 01:08:36,960 --> 01:08:45,359 other ways to pay for the services that we know will not exist if we don't have 536 01:08:42,960 --> 01:08:50,477 either more stuff get built or higher tax rates or some combination thereof. 537 01:08:48,560 --> 01:08:52,400 So that's my last comment on it. This is [laughter] 538 01:08:50,640 --> 01:08:58,560 » all right. So I just need to clarify one thing. The taxes will not go up for 539 01:08:54,880 --> 01:09:05,040 community residents. These are taxes on uh lodging. So your hotels and your 540 01:09:01,520 --> 01:09:11,199 short-term rentals. um it's not attacks on our current um population which 541 01:09:08,239 --> 01:09:18,080 already passed a tax on themselves last year to help our uh public safety 542 01:09:13,920 --> 01:09:24,000 professionals. So this one is help us help the tens of thousands of visitors 543 01:09:20,960 --> 01:09:31,759 we get in our tiny little county of 9100 people. um this helps them uh by 544 01:09:28,560 --> 01:09:38,560 improving our services so that as I said when they get hurt climbing our 14ers we 545 01:09:34,560 --> 01:09:44,560 have people out there to help them. So that's all I'll say on that. Are we 546 01:09:41,679 --> 01:09:47,520 ready for a motion? We had a motion. Yep. 547 01:09:44,960 --> 01:09:51,839 » Are we ready for a vote? >> I don't have anything else. 548 01:09:48,640 --> 01:09:56,159 » All right. All in favor? I I >> I motion passes. Thank you. 549 01:09:56,239 --> 01:10:05,840 All right, we are moving back in the agenda since we got ahead of ourselves. 550 01:10:01,199 --> 01:10:09,520 Um, and this is the CPR contest winner, Idaho Springs. 551 01:10:07,840 --> 01:10:13,600 » I'll have uh Clark come up here if you don't mind. 552 01:10:11,679 --> 01:10:16,800 And um, Idaho Springs, you can also come up here. Um, Clark, you might be able to 553 01:10:15,440 --> 01:10:22,239 give us more information about how many people you had trained, etc., etc. And 554 01:10:19,360 --> 01:10:25,760 here's your guys' certificates. >> Here's your certificates. 555 01:10:23,360 --> 01:10:27,840 Congratulations. >> Appreciate it. Yeah. So, we had a 556 01:10:27,199 --> 01:10:30,960 » taking a photo. >> You can sit if you'd like to. 557 01:10:29,280 --> 01:10:37,040 » Sure. >> Um we reached out to our all of our m 558 01:10:34,480 --> 01:10:41,360 municipal leaders the the mayor's meeting. Um 559 01:10:39,600 --> 01:10:46,000 we're doing a big initiative really this summer which we kind of just slowed down 560 01:10:43,520 --> 01:10:51,679 coming into the fall uh >> to get as many folks uh CPR certified in 561 01:10:49,520 --> 01:10:56,800 the community that we could. Um, and Mayor Harmon and and uh his associates 562 01:10:54,159 --> 01:11:01,120 in Idaho Springs really stepped up and uh gave us a few opportunities to train 563 01:10:59,440 --> 01:11:07,280 their city council and their public works folks. Um, and out of theaters we 564 01:11:05,600 --> 01:11:10,880 got the most trained in Idaho Springs. I think probably got 20 folks 565 01:11:09,520 --> 01:11:13,600 » out of your group. Um, >> it was wildly successful. 566 01:11:12,480 --> 01:11:17,854 » Yeah, it was wonderful. >> So, so my my little training in Dumont 567 01:11:15,840 --> 01:11:20,480 doesn't count for that. >> [laughter] 568 01:11:18,560 --> 01:11:24,960 » Um and it was awesome and through the collaboration of of a lot of people uh 569 01:11:22,800 --> 01:11:28,159 we trained about 450 people this summer. >> Awesome. 570 01:11:25,440 --> 01:11:33,440 » So really excellent work. Um so we just appreciate all that and appreciate you 571 01:11:30,080 --> 01:11:40,880 all. Well, Ken, thank you enough. And uh I was u pleasantly surprised with uh the 572 01:11:37,920 --> 01:11:46,800 level of interest uh the people uh coming out uh very clearly. We're were 573 01:11:43,600 --> 01:11:52,400 passionate about this and uh uh we appreciate the opportunity uh to to 574 01:11:49,120 --> 01:11:58,239 learn and uh and uh hopefully uh you know to save lives if if god forbid you 575 01:11:54,800 --> 01:12:02,880 know somebody needs CPR. uh 450 that that is really for as small as our 576 01:12:00,880 --> 01:12:07,280 community is that that's a very high percentage. Uh thank you for for uh 577 01:12:05,600 --> 01:12:08,320 stepping up and uh and making this possible. 578 01:12:08,080 --> 01:12:11,840 » Sure. >> I can't thank you enough. 579 01:12:10,080 --> 01:12:14,800 » For background, Clare Creek County um espec specifically Clare Creek EMS is 580 01:12:13,520 --> 01:12:19,120 working to become a heart-safe community. So we're trying to train at 581 01:12:16,320 --> 01:12:23,840 least 15% of the population in CPR to strengthen the chain of survival as they 582 01:12:21,600 --> 01:12:27,440 call it. So um as everybody knows, we do not have a hospital in Clear Creek 583 01:12:25,120 --> 01:12:31,920 County. So CPR right when a cardiac arrest happens really matters um and uh 584 01:12:30,239 --> 01:12:35,679 really helps people survive obviously in the long run. So that's why we're doing 585 01:12:33,360 --> 01:12:39,120 this and Clark has been amazing in doing this and I'm really excited that we're 586 01:12:37,760 --> 01:12:41,280 going to continue doing this in years to come. So 587 01:12:39,600 --> 01:12:45,120 » Oh yeah. Thank you very much everybody. Appreciate it. 588 01:12:41,920 --> 01:12:49,120 » And and just one plug for Clark. I I I've been you know doing CPR training 589 01:12:47,199 --> 01:12:54,640 off and on over the last you know 40 years or whatever. um more often on, but 590 01:12:52,320 --> 01:12:58,480 he had me on this very sophisticated mannequin. 591 01:12:55,679 --> 01:13:03,679 » I had no idea all these years I wasn't pushing hard enough and I had to get 592 01:13:00,880 --> 01:13:08,080 that green light and that was hard. >> So, I learned a lot. Thank you. 593 01:13:05,280 --> 01:13:12,880 » Thank you, man. >> Yeah, kudos. Thank you. Same. um that 594 01:13:10,719 --> 01:13:17,679 mannequin like I had done it with all the other the kind of and that that 595 01:13:15,679 --> 01:13:22,159 changed the game for me and you realize that it is so much more um you know 596 01:13:20,560 --> 01:13:25,440 thinking about breaking ribs and stuff like that but when you're in the moment 597 01:13:23,520 --> 01:13:31,040 and you see that green light which in my mind you can just kind of get that feel 598 01:13:28,640 --> 01:13:37,120 um it was great and thank you for doing that and how close to that 15% are we 599 01:13:34,320 --> 01:13:39,920 » you know actually I think um we can't measure all of it right because there's 600 01:13:38,480 --> 01:13:44,719 so many people that are certified But I think that we're pretty like pretty much 601 01:13:42,159 --> 01:13:48,080 there. Um we're hoping to do some stuff with the high school come this fall and 602 01:13:47,120 --> 01:13:52,080 then we're going to be submitting our application in full which is a lot of 603 01:13:50,560 --> 01:13:55,360 things beyond just that but a lot of other things that happen in our 604 01:13:52,960 --> 01:13:58,000 community for this chain of survival. Um so yeah I think I think this year we're 605 01:13:56,960 --> 01:14:00,560 going to submit an application and see what happens. 606 01:13:58,480 --> 01:14:04,159 » Do you do anything like uh at the mine at Henderson or I'm just 607 01:14:02,239 --> 01:14:07,600 » they have their own team and I think they're all well squared away so we 608 01:14:05,679 --> 01:14:10,000 don't work with the mine. spoken to the mind. Um, but I think they're pretty 609 01:14:09,199 --> 01:14:12,239 squared away. >> Okay. 610 01:14:10,719 --> 01:14:16,960 » Yeah. But I appreciate that. >> Very good. Thank you. Thank you. 611 01:14:14,000 --> 01:14:22,560 » Just a quick comment for me. Just >> I guess I'll start. Yes. Thank you Idaho 612 01:14:19,120 --> 01:14:25,520 Springs for for leaning in. Um um we're really really grateful to have 613 01:14:24,000 --> 01:14:31,520 you as partners and supporters of Clear Creek EMS. Um, and on our consent agenda 614 01:14:29,360 --> 01:14:37,679 as a letter of support, Clear Creek EMS was nominated the Colorado Ambulance 615 01:14:34,080 --> 01:14:40,400 Service of the Year uh for MSAC. Um, >> excuse me. 616 01:14:39,199 --> 01:14:44,400 » I don't know how we can better demonstrate the way you deserve this 617 01:14:41,920 --> 01:14:48,320 award. Uh, Clear Creek EMS triples the national average cardiac arrest rate and 618 01:14:46,800 --> 01:14:51,520 they're not satisfied. >> I mean cardiac arrest survival rate. 619 01:14:50,560 --> 01:14:54,719 » What did I say? >> Arrest rate. 620 01:14:52,320 --> 01:14:58,000 » Arrest rate. [laughter] We 621 01:14:56,159 --> 01:15:01,840 » were about average on that. >> We strive to be below average on that. 622 01:14:59,840 --> 01:15:06,719 But um I mean it's it's just it's I'm I'm continuously astounded by your 623 01:15:03,760 --> 01:15:08,960 pursuit of excellence and um thank you so much. 624 01:15:07,360 --> 01:15:12,239 » Yeah. Thank you all and I appreciate it. >> Thank you. 625 01:15:10,800 --> 01:15:14,800 » Take a little break for Megan to take their photo. 626 01:15:12,719 --> 01:15:21,000 » Sure. Okay. Going on a brief break. Thank you. Yeah. 627 01:15:17,840 --> 01:15:21,000 » You want 628 01:18:21,360 --> 01:18:23,360 All 629 01:18:26,560 --> 01:18:34,480 right. County Commissioners is back in session in order to go into executive 630 01:18:31,679 --> 01:18:39,840 session for the following reasons. Um, based on that motion, pursuant to 631 01:18:37,120 --> 01:18:42,880 CRS 246424B and E for the board of county 632 01:18:41,440 --> 01:18:47,679 commissioners to confer with the county attorney for the purposes of receiving 633 01:18:45,840 --> 01:18:51,760 legal advice on specific legal questions pertaining to potential liability and 634 01:18:49,280 --> 01:18:55,360 risk risk exposure arising from public safety responses and determining 635 01:18:53,679 --> 01:18:59,120 positions relative to matters that may be subject to negotiations. developing 636 01:18:57,679 --> 01:19:02,640 strategy for negotiations and instructing negotiators with regard to 637 01:19:01,040 --> 01:19:08,159 addressing that potential liability and risk exposure. And pursuant to CRS 638 01:19:05,600 --> 01:19:10,239 246424B and D for the county attorney to meet with the board of county 639 01:19:08,960 --> 01:19:13,520 commissioners for the purposes of receiving legal advice on specific legal 640 01:19:12,560 --> 01:19:17,199 questions pertaining to the intergovernmental agreement between 641 01:19:14,960 --> 01:19:20,560 Gilpin County and Clear Creek County for the operation of an animal shelter and 642 01:19:19,120 --> 01:19:24,000 determining positions relative to matters that may be subject to 643 01:19:21,840 --> 01:19:28,880 negotiations developing strategy for negotiations and instructing negotiators 644 01:19:26,640 --> 01:19:30,239 with regard to the IGA. And >> second 645 01:19:29,600 --> 01:19:33,440 » perfect. >> All in favor? I 646 01:19:32,480 --> 01:19:39,840 » I >> motion passes. We'll go into executive 647 01:19:35,199 --> 01:19:42,239 session and be back in >> 25 minutes. 648 01:19:40,719 --> 01:19:45,239 » All right, let's go for a half hour. >> Okay. 649 01:57:42,000 --> 01:57:49,599 Board of County Commissioners is back in public session after our executive 650 01:57:46,159 --> 01:57:55,679 session at which uh no decisions were made and no minutes were kept. Uh we are 651 01:57:52,560 --> 01:57:59,480 moving on to uh sorry 652 01:57:59,840 --> 01:58:07,840 a work session with the tourism bureau um regarding their website and messaging 653 01:58:06,000 --> 01:58:14,400 presentation with the tourism bureau director uh Jess Jones and with Matthew 654 01:58:10,719 --> 01:58:18,199 Mson. Do you want to come join us? I want nothing but 655 01:58:20,480 --> 01:58:26,239 » Megan doesn't bite. >> Well, maybe 656 01:58:25,920 --> 01:58:29,480 say >> Yeah, right. 657 01:58:34,400 --> 01:58:40,560 » Sorry, I had a bit of an asthmatic episode and it's just lingering. 658 01:58:37,760 --> 01:58:45,119 » Oh, shoot. Oh, I hate that. Comes upstairs to something blooming. 659 01:58:42,880 --> 01:58:51,040 » Ragweed. Well, and I was just in Texas for about a week. Oh my gosh, they have 660 01:58:48,480 --> 01:58:55,520 so much more weather that comes with growing all the weeds that you can 661 01:58:53,280 --> 01:59:01,599 » struggle through. So, a >> All right. So, um let's see. You have a 662 01:58:59,520 --> 01:59:05,840 presentation for us? >> I've got a little bit of one. Um so, 663 01:59:04,400 --> 01:59:08,320 this will be part of Matt's presentation. I'm sorry. 664 01:59:07,040 --> 01:59:13,840 » No, no, no. You're totally fine. >> It is no problem. We have so much to 665 01:59:10,400 --> 01:59:17,679 cover. Um, so we already know who the tourism bureau is when we were 666 01:59:15,520 --> 01:59:21,760 established, but we have some really exciting things going on this past year. 667 01:59:19,679 --> 01:59:25,280 As George recently mentioned, it's been my one year. And so, we kind of wanted 668 01:59:23,840 --> 01:59:29,679 to chat with you guys a little bit about what we've done, but more importantly 669 01:59:26,880 --> 01:59:34,239 about >> this Wednesday. 670 01:59:32,400 --> 01:59:38,320 » Yeah, you don't have you don't have to. 671 01:59:36,400 --> 01:59:43,520 » Okay, cool. [laughter] Okay. I was like 22 pages. So 672 01:59:41,502 --> 01:59:47,199 [clears throat] um so this past year we've been listening you know we've 673 01:59:45,280 --> 01:59:51,119 heard a little bit about the previous times with this board the distrust 674 01:59:48,880 --> 01:59:55,280 within our community lack of visitor resources and a way that we can connect 675 01:59:52,960 --> 01:59:59,840 better with our businesses. From there we've really been trying to establish 676 01:59:57,840 --> 02:00:04,320 channels to communicate with us to make time with us and to be a part of our 677 02:00:01,520 --> 02:00:07,920 initiatives. Um one of the first things we did was start 678 02:00:06,080 --> 02:00:12,320 to strengthen our partnerships. So, we have got Idaho Springs, Empire, and even 679 02:00:10,159 --> 02:00:16,239 Silver Plume coming to the table and speaking with us about what their needs 680 02:00:14,080 --> 02:00:21,840 are as a county. We love to be the umbrella of everything, but we're not 681 02:00:18,639 --> 02:00:26,480 so, you know, shy to everyone's unique um circumstances when it comes to 682 02:00:23,920 --> 02:00:31,280 tourism in their areas. Um, we've also partnered with not just municipalities, 683 02:00:28,639 --> 02:00:35,679 local businesses, lodgers, public lands managers, nonprofits, the Colorado 684 02:00:33,760 --> 02:00:39,760 Tourism Office, our own economic development corporation, and all sorts 685 02:00:38,080 --> 02:00:46,880 of entities that really want to help elevate us to our next step. So, 686 02:00:43,840 --> 02:00:51,199 all of that to say, what have we done? Um, during my first month here, we did 687 02:00:48,960 --> 02:00:56,000 apply for a grant um that we received $73,500. 688 02:00:54,159 --> 02:00:59,119 So, yes, we do use our lodging, but we're always trying to find other ways 689 02:00:57,199 --> 02:01:04,159 to leverage to make it stretch just a little bit farther. Um, from here, we 690 02:01:01,440 --> 02:01:08,560 started our trails to town project. Um, that kind of jokes here because this is 691 02:01:05,760 --> 02:01:13,119 kind of where it was birthed. Um, we've always heard the urge to get people off 692 02:01:10,719 --> 02:01:17,679 the trails and into our cash registers, but maybe we're looking at the overall 693 02:01:16,080 --> 02:01:21,280 picture and we needed to dissect it a little bit more. Thank you, Colton, our 694 02:01:19,440 --> 02:01:25,599 county manager, for providing us a ton of data to really figure out what 695 02:01:23,280 --> 02:01:30,560 segment we're missing. Um, I think we've talked about it a ton here that 20 to 30 696 02:01:28,639 --> 02:01:33,920 outdoor adventure people who want to come up, do something for free, and 697 02:01:32,320 --> 02:01:39,679 maybe have those home habits that take them back down the hill. Um, we wanted 698 02:01:36,800 --> 02:01:43,679 this pocketbook guide to kind of inspire them to see what they don't know is here 699 02:01:41,360 --> 02:01:46,800 in town. Um, everyone has that local brewery by their spot, but they do do 700 02:01:45,440 --> 02:01:50,880 they know about the history that we have here? we have other spots. Um, so it's 701 02:01:49,199 --> 02:01:54,239 really going to be that touch point of telling a story while making sure you're 702 02:01:52,960 --> 02:02:00,880 getting a little bit of that exposure for what we have to offer here. 703 02:01:58,400 --> 02:02:05,840 Um, currently right now we are still in design phase. I just touched bait with 704 02:02:02,960 --> 02:02:08,960 um, Ember Designs um, and we should be getting something a little bit more 705 02:02:06,880 --> 02:02:14,400 flushed out by the end of this month. Uh, we did apply for round two earlier 706 02:02:12,320 --> 02:02:19,280 um, last month actually. Uh so we'll be hearing about that in October and we did 707 02:02:16,000 --> 02:02:24,080 apply for the full 73,500 and this will be a digital component 708 02:02:21,679 --> 02:02:30,080 along with a full marketing strategy. So 5,000 will go to website 68,500 709 02:02:27,520 --> 02:02:32,880 will go into marketing for this specific campaign. 710 02:02:31,280 --> 02:02:35,760 » And I'm sorry, have you gotten the grant already or you just applied? 711 02:02:34,239 --> 02:02:39,280 » We just applied for it. We'll know in October. 712 02:02:37,679 --> 02:02:42,480 Some other ways that we've wanted to connect and touch base and be 713 02:02:40,880 --> 02:02:47,040 collaborative, we've started our tourism forum. So, we have every second 714 02:02:45,360 --> 02:02:50,480 Wednesday at 10 a.m. over at the Majestic. We want to meet with our 715 02:02:48,560 --> 02:02:53,760 partners, hear what we're doing, hear what they're doing, and more ways that 716 02:02:51,840 --> 02:02:57,840 we can layer and work together. There's also the point of the pot. If we're all 717 02:02:56,320 --> 02:03:01,280 going after the same marketing opportunity, then we're all putting our 718 02:02:59,280 --> 02:03:05,199 dollars in one bin. This is an opportunity that we can stretch things 719 02:03:02,800 --> 02:03:09,440 and go a little bit further. So, um, one example is if Idaho Springs is going for 720 02:03:07,599 --> 02:03:14,639 a commercial on apps and streaming services, we have another opportunity to 721 02:03:11,760 --> 02:03:17,199 go with live TV streaming and on demand. We're not going to go for the same 722 02:03:15,920 --> 02:03:21,520 entities. We might have the same demographics, but that way we can 723 02:03:18,880 --> 02:03:26,000 stretch uh and get into people's minds a little bit better. 724 02:03:23,920 --> 02:03:30,000 Um, the other opportunity we were recently started was our lodging round 725 02:03:27,679 --> 02:03:32,639 table. Um, as a lodging board, we want to make sure that we're partnering with 726 02:03:31,199 --> 02:03:37,119 those short-term rentals that you've been uh hearing from more of our lodging 727 02:03:35,040 --> 02:03:41,760 partners. And we actually do have two open positions on our board right now if 728 02:03:39,440 --> 02:03:47,719 anyone is interested in coming, supporting us, our efforts, and really 729 02:03:43,679 --> 02:03:47,719 having a hand in the say. 730 02:03:47,760 --> 02:03:54,480 And this is when we get to Matt. So, when it when I came into my first year, 731 02:03:52,719 --> 02:03:57,679 I wasn't new to this. I've sat on the board for about two years. and we kind 732 02:03:56,400 --> 02:04:01,920 of had the same understanding of hearing. We want a refresh. We want 733 02:03:59,760 --> 02:04:05,760 something a little bit more engaging. We might not love being cartoony. So, 734 02:04:03,840 --> 02:04:11,199 what's the opposite of that? I don't know. I put out an um an RFP and we 735 02:04:09,520 --> 02:04:16,719 resource some really great talent, including Matt. So, this is Matt Mson. 736 02:04:14,639 --> 02:04:21,360 He is with Creative Trajectory. We have hired him on for a couple of our 737 02:04:18,400 --> 02:04:26,159 projects here. Um mostly with our destination rebranding, our strategy. 738 02:04:24,239 --> 02:04:30,880 Um, we've got our whole website that we'll touch base on just a moment and 739 02:04:27,840 --> 02:04:35,440 our social media. So, I'll let you take away. 740 02:04:32,560 --> 02:04:39,360 » Jess set this up really wonderfully. um she came into this and she really 741 02:04:37,280 --> 02:04:42,480 listened to everyone was saying about the county and she didn't make 742 02:04:41,040 --> 02:04:48,480 assumptions and that's what I really tried to do when I came in to help you 743 02:04:45,040 --> 02:04:52,080 guys or the county which was listen to what everyone has to say and then let 744 02:04:50,320 --> 02:04:57,040 that kind of inform the direction of the entire brand and I sat down with a lot 745 02:04:55,520 --> 02:05:01,760 of the people on the board. I've talked to a lot of businesses. I've had a 746 02:04:58,639 --> 02:05:07,520 wonderful opportunity to also work with um people in Idaho Springs. Sadi is one 747 02:05:04,159 --> 02:05:12,639 of them and create kind of a larger tapestry of a brand. What I really heard 748 02:05:10,719 --> 02:05:16,960 and what really stood out to everyone I think is adventure belongs to everyone. 749 02:05:15,040 --> 02:05:22,639 And so often when we're down in the Front Range, we hear that the mountains 750 02:05:19,360 --> 02:05:27,360 aren't for certain people and they don't have the ability or the understanding to 751 02:05:25,040 --> 02:05:31,360 come up here. And I think that's a huge component of it is it's not just 752 02:05:28,960 --> 02:05:35,360 bringing people here, but educating people to have the best experience 753 02:05:33,119 --> 02:05:39,760 possible. That's another core component of the website is the website right now 754 02:05:38,159 --> 02:05:44,159 is an incredible directory. Unfortunately or fortunately, Google 755 02:05:42,480 --> 02:05:48,400 does a really good job of telling you where stuff is and what it is. What we 756 02:05:46,960 --> 02:05:53,760 needed to do is kind of how do we connect those dots? So instead of going 757 02:05:50,639 --> 02:06:00,719 to the Argo, how do we get people to become interested in the Argo and then 758 02:05:56,880 --> 02:06:06,000 stay at the campground and then eat at the restaurants and extend the stand? 759 02:06:02,719 --> 02:06:11,599 How do we turn $1 into $5 or >> $100 into a million dollars? So that's 760 02:06:09,599 --> 02:06:15,920 what the focus of the website really is is it's creating kind of an editorial 761 02:06:13,280 --> 02:06:21,440 experience that's very welcoming, but kind of encourages people to stay in the 762 02:06:17,920 --> 02:06:25,679 county. again. And then going back to with lodging being kind of the funding 763 02:06:23,920 --> 02:06:29,760 for this, I wanted to really make sure that we were representing our lodging 764 02:06:27,360 --> 02:06:33,040 partners as best as we can because at the end of the day, they're kind of the 765 02:06:31,040 --> 02:06:35,840 people footing the bill for this and I want to make sure that they're seeing 766 02:06:34,320 --> 02:06:40,880 the value and like the things that they're doing. Especially, this is 767 02:06:38,239 --> 02:06:44,880 totally unrelated to uh I was just informed of the increase recently. This 768 02:06:43,360 --> 02:06:49,520 is something that just kind of like came up uh organically is being like, how do 769 02:06:47,760 --> 02:06:54,560 we represent our partners? Not only because they're paying for it, but also 770 02:06:51,679 --> 02:06:58,800 if someone stays in the county, that's not just a lunch, that's a breakfast, 771 02:06:57,040 --> 02:07:03,280 that's a lunch, that's a dinner, that's an overnight stay, and then hopefully 772 02:07:00,639 --> 02:07:08,480 just more and more. It's growing our Yeah. shopping. And it's not increasing 773 02:07:05,760 --> 02:07:12,320 the burden on our infrastructure because we're seeing really high peaks. It's 774 02:07:10,320 --> 02:07:17,760 kind of like how do we spread that out and flatten the curve? As much as I hate 775 02:07:14,639 --> 02:07:21,280 referencing that time in history, um if we can go to the next slide, if you 776 02:07:19,199 --> 02:07:25,599 don't mind, another big component of this is how does everything work 777 02:07:23,199 --> 02:07:32,239 together? How does social media inform? And like especially I've talked to so 778 02:07:29,360 --> 02:07:39,520 many people in and outside of work that vacations in today's modern time, you're 779 02:07:37,199 --> 02:07:43,360 experiencing everything digitally before you experience it physically. You want 780 02:07:41,520 --> 02:07:47,199 to see like what it looks like. You want to see what the food is it like at a 781 02:07:45,840 --> 02:07:51,679 restaurant. You want to see what the experience is like. And you want to have 782 02:07:49,520 --> 02:07:56,800 like a good understanding. So, that was kind of the core thing that I came in to 783 02:07:54,639 --> 02:08:01,280 the tourism board with is like, how does everything fit together perfectly? I've 784 02:07:58,880 --> 02:08:05,119 worked in agencies and I've been harped on by creative directors about like the 785 02:08:03,280 --> 02:08:09,599 font has to be the exact same through every piece that we use, but then they 786 02:08:07,599 --> 02:08:14,159 would just completely like silo their social and their like um media 787 02:08:11,760 --> 02:08:17,679 campaigns. So, how do we create kind of a really consistent flow? And we've 788 02:08:15,920 --> 02:08:21,679 already started that with we have a wonderful influencer that we've worked 789 02:08:19,280 --> 02:08:25,440 with, Miranda in the mountains. We went out, we shot a bunch of content with 790 02:08:23,440 --> 02:08:30,800 her. So now when she puts stuff out on social, which is our it's her and uh 791 02:08:28,560 --> 02:08:37,520 Emily who is fighting for the top spot as the biggest impact of kind of 792 02:08:34,320 --> 02:08:42,480 engagement for our county. um those two people, how do you when you come into 793 02:08:40,320 --> 02:08:47,040 her page and you kind of meet the county through her perspective, we get to carry 794 02:08:45,040 --> 02:08:50,880 that through this entire experience and like show her eating in the county, show 795 02:08:48,960 --> 02:08:54,079 her staying in the county, show her having a great time. Here are some 796 02:08:52,639 --> 02:08:57,520 numbers. I think they're very impressive, but to you guys, they're 797 02:08:55,440 --> 02:09:01,599 just numbers. So, I just wanted to make sure that we uh knew that we're moving 798 02:08:59,760 --> 02:09:08,079 in a very positive direction. We're up about 75% 799 02:09:03,920 --> 02:09:13,040 um in for views over the past 90 days. 90 over 90, 800 02:09:09,920 --> 02:09:16,239 » which is where we've been. Um and again, we're not just 801 02:09:14,719 --> 02:09:20,320 » on your social media. >> Yep. This is on our social media page. 802 02:09:18,239 --> 02:09:24,639 And it's not just about like views for views sake. It's about again creating 803 02:09:22,320 --> 02:09:27,679 the story, making this a very welcoming place, and creating information that 804 02:09:26,159 --> 02:09:30,719 people kind of want to dig their teeth into. 805 02:09:28,159 --> 02:09:33,520 » What social media are we looking? Facebook, Instagram, 806 02:09:32,880 --> 02:09:37,280 » Tik Tok. >> Tik Tok. 807 02:09:34,400 --> 02:09:40,000 » Okay. >> Where the different generations are at. 808 02:09:39,599 --> 02:09:43,199 » Yep. >> Yes. 809 02:09:41,040 --> 02:09:47,840 » And what's really interesting is you're able to see how well they perform. Like 810 02:09:45,440 --> 02:09:52,560 you can talk about, you know, a younger demographic on Instagram and our most 811 02:09:49,760 --> 02:09:54,960 recent reel got us over 2,000 views and then just finally pushed us over 800 812 02:09:54,480 --> 02:09:56,719 followers. >> Oh, 20,000. 813 02:09:55,840 --> 02:10:00,480 » 20,000. >> 25,000. 2,000. 814 02:09:58,400 --> 02:10:05,040 » Oh, sorry. numbers are [laughter] hard. Quad shot. Um, yeah, 20,000 even more 815 02:10:03,440 --> 02:10:08,400 impressive. But then if you look at the same reel on Facebook, this is again 816 02:10:06,880 --> 02:10:12,400 just something about Silver Plume just showing the town. It's nothing pushing. 817 02:10:10,639 --> 02:10:16,719 There's not really a big call to action, but they have over 99 likes. We're over 818 02:10:14,639 --> 02:10:20,400 5,000 views there. I actually think it's 11,000 views if I looked right this 819 02:10:18,400 --> 02:10:24,000 morning. But we really are starting to see like people aren't just scrolling, 820 02:10:22,480 --> 02:10:27,599 liking it, and moving on. We're actually showing up in feeds and making that 821 02:10:26,000 --> 02:10:29,599 secondhand connection so that get inspired to come here. 822 02:10:29,199 --> 02:10:33,119 » Okay. >> So, we're we're hitting all of our 823 02:10:31,119 --> 02:10:36,960 pillars, but no matter where you look, it's all the same. It's not like we're 824 02:10:35,119 --> 02:10:40,239 getting one reel from an influencer, paying them out, and then just moving on 825 02:10:38,560 --> 02:10:43,599 to the next thing. Matt's really trying to make sure we're telling the story. 826 02:10:41,920 --> 02:10:49,400 And what you see on one platform is what you see on our website, how you see us 827 02:10:45,599 --> 02:10:49,400 interacting as well. 828 02:10:49,520 --> 02:10:56,079 » Cool. And then we're going to get into even more granular stuff. 829 02:10:54,400 --> 02:10:58,000 How does the website work? And I touched on it just briefly. Oh, sorry. 830 02:10:57,599 --> 02:10:59,840 » Next one. >> Yes, please. 831 02:10:58,560 --> 02:11:01,520 » Oh, sorry. Okay. No, you're totally right. 832 02:11:00,239 --> 02:11:03,199 » I I [laughter] realized you weren't looking. I gave you that. 833 02:11:02,320 --> 02:11:07,280 » No, that's all right. Sorry. >> See the multitasking. 834 02:11:05,760 --> 02:11:10,639 » So, another part of it is we look a lot at 835 02:11:08,960 --> 02:11:14,000 the data and what's happening, but it's also about having a vision for like what 836 02:11:12,239 --> 02:11:19,679 we want Clear Creek County to be in the future. And that's moving from a pit 837 02:11:15,760 --> 02:11:24,320 stop, a Maverick, like cinnamon roll to something that people can experience. 838 02:11:21,520 --> 02:11:28,159 And like I'm just as guilty of it as everyone else. I've driven past Silver 839 02:11:26,480 --> 02:11:33,599 Plume. I've driven past Empire, all these beautiful cities so many times and 840 02:11:30,320 --> 02:11:37,760 never was inspired to come check it out like I have recently. Silver Plume is 841 02:11:36,079 --> 02:11:43,119 just abs. I mean, Idaho Springs is awesome. I love it. But there's silver 842 02:11:40,960 --> 02:11:46,079 plume has been the most unbelievable kind of gem that I found and I think 843 02:11:44,719 --> 02:11:50,560 people are really responding to that online is it's so charming and you've 844 02:11:48,960 --> 02:11:54,560 pulled off on that thing and you just see the like mechanic and you're like 845 02:11:52,800 --> 02:11:58,159 this is all there is and that's what's so wonderful about social media is it 846 02:11:56,480 --> 02:12:02,000 allows people to like have these experiences that are continued and you 847 02:12:00,159 --> 02:12:05,199 can continue to have this kind of a relationship. 848 02:12:03,520 --> 02:12:08,719 But this talks a lot about what the website is designed for. So, we're 849 02:12:07,119 --> 02:12:13,040 bringing them in through social media. Someone who's seen these reels and maybe 850 02:12:10,560 --> 02:12:18,320 wants to find out some more. We want them to recognize kind of the value of 851 02:12:14,960 --> 02:12:23,199 it. Um, see the different pillars that we have, which is like on trail, in 852 02:12:20,719 --> 02:12:28,000 town, on snow, which is also going to be a big initiative coming up in the 853 02:12:25,360 --> 02:12:32,480 winter. Um, we want them to feel it, be inspired to stay, and then we want them 854 02:12:30,719 --> 02:12:35,440 to build out their day so that they know exactly where they're going to go. And 855 02:12:34,159 --> 02:12:39,119 then we want them to come back because they've had such a wonderful time. We're 856 02:12:37,440 --> 02:12:42,639 also looking a lot at how we're going to expand this outside of the Front Range. 857 02:12:40,880 --> 02:12:47,119 There's a lot of people in the Front Range, but they can drive home. You 858 02:12:45,280 --> 02:12:50,560 can't drive home if you're in Nebraska. You can't drive home if you're in Texas. 859 02:12:48,880 --> 02:12:53,760 And if we can start to target those audiences, that's where we're going to 860 02:12:51,840 --> 02:12:57,040 see a really exponential growth in kind of spending. 861 02:12:54,639 --> 02:13:02,480 » And when he says target, he means in a very meaningful way. We are again not 862 02:12:59,599 --> 02:13:06,639 trying to just bring anyone willy-nilly here. We want the right visitor. We are 863 02:13:05,119 --> 02:13:10,719 trying to do a little bit more with our stewardship initiatives because as much 864 02:13:08,800 --> 02:13:15,840 as I can talk about Plume to these influencers who can feel my energy, we 865 02:13:13,679 --> 02:13:20,719 know that not everyone loves a busy street or dog poop bags left around or 866 02:13:18,239 --> 02:13:25,360 businesses not visited. So, there is a balance to this. So, don't feel like 867 02:13:23,360 --> 02:13:28,400 we're just trying to say everyone come on in. 868 02:13:26,560 --> 02:13:32,239 » Um, and we'll expand on some other projects that we have going with that 869 02:13:29,920 --> 02:13:36,079 too. And then I do want to point out some of what you're seeing is Matt's 870 02:13:33,920 --> 02:13:41,280 rebrand. These are some of our colors. You saw our lo I know, I know you see 871 02:13:38,960 --> 02:13:45,440 some some of our logos and our colors. Um we are still finalizing this with our 872 02:13:43,520 --> 02:13:50,719 board, but we're pretty comfortable getting this out there, getting it done 873 02:13:47,360 --> 02:13:54,960 because we're ready to get launched. So, we do have our monthly meetings every 874 02:13:52,960 --> 02:13:58,719 second Thursday of the month. So, that will be next week. Um we'll be getting 875 02:13:56,639 --> 02:14:02,719 out our materials at the end of this week. um they go out on our newsletter, 876 02:14:01,040 --> 02:14:07,599 they're on the website. Um and then you can always email ways to get involved. 877 02:14:04,560 --> 02:14:11,360 But um I'm feeling really proud about what we're doing. Sometimes it feels 878 02:14:09,760 --> 02:14:14,800 when you're on an island, you don't really know what to do, but since 879 02:14:12,639 --> 02:14:19,360 bringing in Matt, we've been able to take our two big ideas and bring them 880 02:14:17,119 --> 02:14:23,280 all together, and it's been a really nice partnership. He also does work with 881 02:14:21,520 --> 02:14:28,800 Idaho Springs. I'm sure you've seen some of their uh what do they call it? A 882 02:14:25,599 --> 02:14:33,520 co-op uh co-op opportunity. Um, so Matt's been in the area. He's really 883 02:14:30,560 --> 02:14:36,480 excited to learn, dove right in, and he's, you know, building it from the 884 02:14:35,280 --> 02:14:41,360 ground up with us. >> A couple questions on this slide. One 885 02:14:38,400 --> 02:14:45,760 is, um, and just, this is just curiosity under measured in moments. It says not 886 02:14:43,199 --> 02:14:47,840 altitude gained. What are you trying to communicate there? 887 02:14:46,719 --> 02:14:52,239 » Yeah. So, that's a really good point that we got. Um, when I came in, I had 888 02:14:50,320 --> 02:14:56,480 these ideas and perceptions of like we need someone on top of a 14er with like 889 02:14:54,880 --> 02:15:00,239 the sun in the background and it's like as gnarly as possible. And then talking 890 02:14:58,400 --> 02:15:04,560 through things, we deconstructed those ideas so that it's the mountains for 891 02:15:02,719 --> 02:15:09,119 everyone and going back to adventure belongs to everyone. Whether you're in a 892 02:15:06,719 --> 02:15:13,040 wheelchair, whether you're 75 years old, you can come here and you can have a 893 02:15:10,639 --> 02:15:16,800 really wonderful time. You don't have to do the most incredible gnarly thing 894 02:15:15,119 --> 02:15:21,040 possible, but you can, >> right? And you can take a gondola to the 895 02:15:19,119 --> 02:15:26,480 top, still get great views. You don't have to be a mountain biker. Um I I was 896 02:15:24,159 --> 02:15:29,440 hiking there with girlfriends and they let hikers go down the up trail. 897 02:15:29,119 --> 02:15:34,239 » Yeah. >> Safer than going down the downtra 898 02:15:31,599 --> 02:15:40,400 hikers. And it was a lovely hike, you know, very manageable. And um so yeah, I 899 02:15:38,159 --> 02:15:46,159 I love this approach. And you know, without dissing our our mountain bikers, 900 02:15:43,280 --> 02:15:50,639 but you know, it's like we've got it it's it's a bigger pot than 901 02:15:49,119 --> 02:15:54,239 people may think. >> Yeah. I think the numbers on mountain 902 02:15:52,000 --> 02:15:59,920 biking are it's like the industry is like $500 903 02:15:56,400 --> 02:16:04,079 million, which like is a very very small portion of everyone, 904 02:16:02,239 --> 02:16:09,040 » right? So it's as much as mountain bikers are a draw and we've seen a lot 905 02:16:06,560 --> 02:16:12,960 of success in communities like Fruda, it's not the majority of the people 906 02:16:11,440 --> 02:16:16,800 coming to visit our county. And that's why we need to represent everyone and 907 02:16:14,639 --> 02:16:21,040 create a really welcoming environment as well as an educational environment, 908 02:16:18,560 --> 02:16:25,599 which is why social media is so great is because you can kind of sprinkle stuff 909 02:16:22,480 --> 02:16:28,880 onto people. I also I want to ask uh because you brought it up just just sort 910 02:16:27,280 --> 02:16:32,800 of target audience a lot of conversations 911 02:16:31,040 --> 02:16:37,200 about target audience over the years. >> Um 912 02:16:34,559 --> 02:16:41,920 as I understand it we and this is not a binary we can choose to try to do both 913 02:16:39,040 --> 02:16:45,760 but I think we were starting to shift 914 02:16:43,439 --> 02:16:48,880 towards wow look who's already here and how can we influence their behavior? how 915 02:16:47,200 --> 02:16:54,719 can we get them to shop, right? Blah blah blah. Verse how do we select who we 916 02:16:52,319 --> 02:16:58,880 want to come here? Um, give me can you give me a sense I I know it's not one or 917 02:16:56,319 --> 02:17:02,800 the other. Can you give me a sense of where you see value and how you're 918 02:17:00,479 --> 02:17:07,120 prioritizing those two opportunities? >> Yeah, I I mean you can break it down as 919 02:17:05,280 --> 02:17:11,359 easy as day trippers and overnighters, but we kind of look at it as everybody. 920 02:17:09,359 --> 02:17:14,960 Um, you've got people that I will use my inexperience to help educate them on 921 02:17:13,519 --> 02:17:19,200 what's more safer for them to do. And you've got people who already know what 922 02:17:16,160 --> 02:17:23,519 they like to do. I think it's just knowing the right people through like 923 02:17:21,679 --> 02:17:27,519 the data we've gotten, watching our trends, but making sure like every 924 02:17:25,599 --> 02:17:30,639 demographic behaves differently. Like our historians are already here. They 925 02:17:29,200 --> 02:17:34,160 are staying by night. They are going into it, but we can't forgive them 926 02:17:32,080 --> 02:17:38,000 either. So with our Trails to Town pocket guide, we're trying to get one, 927 02:17:36,240 --> 02:17:44,719 but hopefully it does inspire a few others. It's it's a juggle. Matt, 928 02:17:43,120 --> 02:17:48,479 » um I think this is a trap that DMOs fall 929 02:17:46,479 --> 02:17:54,719 into a lot is it's like what are we doing and who's already here and then 930 02:17:50,639 --> 02:17:58,719 like how do we squeeze them more but it's going back to what Jess says is it 931 02:17:57,040 --> 02:18:05,040 has to be both and we have to continually be like drawing in new 932 02:18:00,800 --> 02:18:09,359 audiences because a brand that relies on its previous audience to kind of survive 933 02:18:07,439 --> 02:18:13,519 is a brand that's going to die just slowly over time because someone, you 934 02:18:11,519 --> 02:18:16,719 know, comes here, has a negative experience, god forbid, they don't come 935 02:18:15,840 --> 02:18:21,280 back. Someone >> and they tell everyone about it, so then 936 02:18:19,280 --> 02:18:27,120 that will affect other people's ability to come back here. 937 02:18:23,519 --> 02:18:30,719 » Um, and then like your your historians, as we'll call them, maybe they age out 938 02:18:29,040 --> 02:18:33,679 of travel and they're no longer like kind of coming into this area to do 939 02:18:32,319 --> 02:18:37,439 these things. So, we need to think about like what does it look like in 5 years? 940 02:18:35,840 --> 02:18:43,840 What does it look like in 10 years? And start kind of just planting those seeds 941 02:18:39,439 --> 02:18:48,479 of Clear Creek County. And that's a huge other thing that we've kind of started 942 02:18:45,439 --> 02:18:52,880 to address is we've got two camps and I'm going to be very transparent. We've 943 02:18:50,479 --> 02:18:56,399 got camps that people think Clear Creek County is not a nice place, which we're 944 02:18:55,120 --> 02:18:59,599 working very hard to change their perception because it is a very nice 945 02:18:58,000 --> 02:19:03,359 place. And we have people that don't know about Clear Creek County. So, how 946 02:19:01,679 --> 02:19:08,160 are we approaching those people? And how is that messaging kind of different for 947 02:19:05,280 --> 02:19:12,000 both of those two audiences? And there is overlap, but at the end of the day, 948 02:19:10,160 --> 02:19:15,439 we've got kind of two hurdles to overcome, but as soon as we overcome 949 02:19:13,920 --> 02:19:20,160 them there, we're going to see a great amount of and I'm always cautious of 950 02:19:18,240 --> 02:19:24,319 growth, but we're going to see like a a great opportunity for the county to grow 951 02:19:22,319 --> 02:19:27,840 and progress into something that we all are very proud of. 952 02:19:27,200 --> 02:19:33,200 » Thank you. >> Yeah. So, I didn't get this slide deck. 953 02:19:32,000 --> 02:19:38,559 Is this >> I cut it down. It This was in the other 954 02:19:35,760 --> 02:19:43,280 one. I just removed all the um words from it cuz otherwise everyone would be 955 02:19:40,639 --> 02:19:45,679 staring at it like So, I apologize if I changed it a little bit. 956 02:19:44,240 --> 02:19:49,359 » We'll make sure this is distributed especially record. 957 02:19:47,200 --> 02:19:53,359 » Yeah, I mean this is good. Yeah, that was uh I got feedback from my board 958 02:19:51,760 --> 02:19:56,800 yesterday that was like there's a lot of words on it and then I realized that I'm 959 02:19:55,439 --> 02:20:01,120 going to be presenting in this format and I'm like no one wants to be 960 02:19:58,479 --> 02:20:05,840 squinting at stuff. So, >> um [clears throat] yeah, I we we tend to 961 02:20:03,439 --> 02:20:08,880 read everything ahead of time, so it's it's nice to get the words first and 962 02:20:07,760 --> 02:20:13,120 then the presentation. >> Okay, sweet. We can keep I'll just like 963 02:20:11,600 --> 02:20:17,840 put this at the bottom somewhere. >> Uh 964 02:20:15,200 --> 02:20:21,200 is it that one? Oh, yeah. I see. It's it's kind of compiled. 965 02:20:19,120 --> 02:20:24,080 » Yeah, sorry. I just pulled out some stuff to speak. 966 02:20:22,000 --> 02:20:27,520 » So, our annual report that we did submit, we're trying to make that a 967 02:20:25,680 --> 02:20:31,040 little bit more business facing so that way it can live on our website. We can 968 02:20:29,200 --> 02:20:34,800 distribute it and people can be in the know about what we're working on. But, 969 02:20:33,200 --> 02:20:39,439 um, yeah, we did get feedback. We're a little wordy marketers. 970 02:20:37,520 --> 02:20:43,200 » Well, I mean, I understand that if you're marketing, but when it's 971 02:20:40,960 --> 02:20:46,399 presenting to the board, we like to read things. 972 02:20:44,720 --> 02:20:52,560 Thanks. My comments are um I just wanted to say 973 02:20:49,760 --> 02:20:58,160 there's been a lot of change and um when we talk about 974 02:20:54,720 --> 02:21:03,760 um seasonal things and we just saw you know the worst rafting season, the worst 975 02:21:00,800 --> 02:21:10,000 skiing season in a really long time and I just want to commend on trying to get 976 02:21:06,479 --> 02:21:12,880 things kind of backup plans. Um now we have a campground, now we have a 977 02:21:11,280 --> 02:21:18,479 gondola. you know, things are kind of evolving and changing, so people can do 978 02:21:15,840 --> 02:21:21,840 other activities than just the typical, even back in my day, we didn't have 979 02:21:20,160 --> 02:21:25,280 rafting. Um, it was kind of just the skiing and people came up and we saw 980 02:21:23,920 --> 02:21:29,760 what happened to Idaho Springs. Georgetown was flourishing. They had the 981 02:21:27,439 --> 02:21:35,520 train, had all their stuff going Idaho Springs. It was a ghost town. You know, 982 02:21:32,560 --> 02:21:37,920 all the um the businesses had spiderw webs and 983 02:21:36,399 --> 02:21:40,800 » What year was that about? >> In the 80s. 984 02:21:38,640 --> 02:21:43,680 » In the 80s. Okay. So before you were born, 985 02:21:41,439 --> 02:21:48,160 » you don't know that born before the first text message. 986 02:21:46,160 --> 02:21:51,520 » So I think like between marketing and working with the businesses, you can 987 02:21:49,920 --> 02:21:56,560 really see how things can fluctuate really fast. Um and I think that's what 988 02:21:53,920 --> 02:22:02,560 we're trying to get a hold on is how we can, you know, get people up here spend 989 02:22:00,399 --> 02:22:08,640 day or days, you have the day trippers, and give them options of family oriented 990 02:22:05,040 --> 02:22:14,720 things or aging community things. And um you know, I've seen I mostly travel 991 02:22:11,439 --> 02:22:17,680 through Ido Springs on I7, so I'm seeing how those parking lots are filled or not 992 02:22:16,720 --> 02:22:22,479 filled. >> Um and now I'm noticing them kind of 993 02:22:19,840 --> 02:22:26,479 picking up a little bit more. Um and I'm not sure if it's the hot weather, you 994 02:22:24,479 --> 02:22:32,640 know, in Denver, getting people to come up. Um it's cooler, so they can sit at 995 02:22:29,040 --> 02:22:38,800 the park. And um was George, did you tube in Clear Creek in Idaho Springs 996 02:22:34,880 --> 02:22:43,280 area? I have been tubing in Clear Creek. >> Yeah. So, I've always wondered like why 997 02:22:40,560 --> 02:22:46,000 do we have tubing when crafting season mellows out? 998 02:22:44,560 --> 02:22:50,000 » We could have probably tubed in Clear Creek a good portion of the summer. Um, 999 02:22:49,359 --> 02:22:52,720 » that strain >> that's not a safety recommendation. 1000 02:22:52,084 --> 02:22:56,479 [laughter] >> Those are things that I kind of think of 1001 02:22:54,160 --> 02:23:00,319 like you're an outfitter strain on your emergency services like is it allowed is 1002 02:22:58,800 --> 02:23:03,439 my first question. >> Oh, before you promise, 1003 02:23:01,760 --> 02:23:06,319 » right? Because here in Georgetown you can too, but after Cooper's on the creek 1004 02:23:05,439 --> 02:23:10,479 down. >> So like what are the rules in Idaho 1005 02:23:07,840 --> 02:23:13,520 Springs? So I just don't it's very strategic. You don't want to just put 1006 02:23:11,840 --> 02:23:16,560 things out there because they're well because people will do them. 1007 02:23:14,640 --> 02:23:22,800 » What does that look like? So Golden does do that, right? And why and how? And um 1008 02:23:19,600 --> 02:23:26,319 a lot of long was packed and filled. Um I had several meetings down there and 1009 02:23:24,399 --> 02:23:30,720 I'm just thinking why is that different? It's the same 1010 02:23:27,920 --> 02:23:35,680 creek. Um, but it's strategically the rocks are placed differently just like 1011 02:23:32,960 --> 02:23:40,160 they changed that creek for rafting. Um, but it maybe it's not just tubing. Maybe 1012 02:23:37,760 --> 02:23:42,240 it's picture taking. There's just so many different activities to do in their 1013 02:23:41,920 --> 02:23:46,399 creek. >> Yeah. 1014 02:23:43,040 --> 02:23:48,479 » It's crazy how many people you could get them to change their behavior a little 1015 02:23:48,080 --> 02:23:53,120 bit. >> Well, it's interesting. I I spent, you 1016 02:23:50,479 --> 02:23:59,600 know, 25 years commuting to Denver >> and some people in Denver have this 1017 02:23:56,319 --> 02:24:04,800 attitude that like, you know, I7 up mountain is this wall, you know, they 1018 02:24:02,240 --> 02:24:10,160 they don't go up there. And so I think that's probably why a lot of people just 1019 02:24:07,359 --> 02:24:15,040 stop at Golden. So everything you're doing is, you know, helping them get 1020 02:24:12,479 --> 02:24:19,359 over the wall. Well, and one initiative that we did 1021 02:24:16,800 --> 02:24:23,200 take on is outlining what do we have in the county? Like we do know the big 1022 02:24:21,280 --> 02:24:26,560 adventure drivers, but it like one thing we did try to launch this past winter 1023 02:24:24,880 --> 02:24:30,960 was find your seat in Clear Creek. Whether you're at breakfast in glass, a 1024 02:24:28,880 --> 02:24:35,120 lift chair, what do you want to do? I honestly do more of the aging, you know, 1025 02:24:33,200 --> 02:24:39,680 hobbies. So, I would love to find a nice place to go knit for a while. But it 1026 02:24:37,359 --> 02:24:43,040 it's how so from there we worked with our lodgers and they're like we want to 1027 02:24:40,880 --> 02:24:47,600 know places to recommend hiking places for outfitters bird watching like what 1028 02:24:45,280 --> 02:24:51,920 can you give to us to put into visitors firsthand. So we're taking these 1029 02:24:49,600 --> 02:24:55,359 relationships and building upon that and hopefully you'll start to see it more in 1030 02:24:53,439 --> 02:24:59,520 an overall marketing strategy and not just these little one-offs. And is that 1031 02:24:57,280 --> 02:25:03,280 in the short-term rental places too? Do they have things like we don't have a 1032 02:25:01,280 --> 02:25:07,760 rat card per se? We do have some short-term rental like managers or 1033 02:25:05,359 --> 02:25:11,280 owners come to the lodging table. Um we do have a lodging newsletter that 1034 02:25:09,760 --> 02:25:17,040 specifically goes out or if they're already uh subscribed to our other one 1035 02:25:13,680 --> 02:25:20,640 » that lodging round table that is that is also a subcommittee of the resilience 1036 02:25:19,040 --> 02:25:22,319 work, right? Like or is that a separate group? I'm 1037 02:25:20,880 --> 02:25:24,160 » really sure. I think it's a separate group. 1038 02:25:22,880 --> 02:25:27,120 » Same people. >> I haven't seen anyone from there. 1039 02:25:26,640 --> 02:25:31,760 » Okay. >> I think we're kind of rogue. Well, I 1040 02:25:29,600 --> 02:25:34,720 mean, convene, you know, like that's that's great. This No admonishment 1041 02:25:33,760 --> 02:25:38,800 intended. I was just >> No, no, no. And we recognize like as a 1042 02:25:36,960 --> 02:25:42,160 board there's some conversations that we don't touch. We don't get involved with. 1043 02:25:40,560 --> 02:25:46,479 We do like to listen to know what's going on, but like as you've mentioned, 1044 02:25:44,160 --> 02:25:50,080 those individual like advertising is something we haven't really done because 1045 02:25:48,160 --> 02:25:53,520 of that equity and making sure everyone's represented in a fair way. 1046 02:25:52,319 --> 02:25:57,920 But it is always something we can explore. I do want to get a rat card 1047 02:25:56,000 --> 02:26:03,520 into those businesses, but that's a little 1048 02:26:00,640 --> 02:26:06,720 a little hard just because she doesn't access them. 1049 02:26:04,240 --> 02:26:10,479 » Is that something that that the RV park passes out with the coupons on? 1050 02:26:08,319 --> 02:26:14,640 » That is her own individual business drive, the discovery pass. 1051 02:26:13,439 --> 02:26:18,399 I'd be happy to >> because that's something I'm thinking 1052 02:26:16,000 --> 02:26:22,720 like with that all around thing when they walk into that STR or they go stay 1053 02:26:20,479 --> 02:26:26,880 at the camping or they stay at a hotel if there's something at the front that 1054 02:26:25,600 --> 02:26:30,240 » other things you >> brochures and visitors guide 1055 02:26:28,640 --> 02:26:33,920 » I think since this past year we've been doing a lot of who we are rebranding we 1056 02:26:32,479 --> 02:26:37,920 haven't made or put money towards a lot of those marketing materials it is on my 1057 02:26:35,920 --> 02:26:42,479 list but then you have the struggle with distribution we don't get the direct 1058 02:26:40,080 --> 02:26:46,000 emails or like information on who to contact for short-term rentals. We're 1059 02:26:44,160 --> 02:26:49,760 just kind of saying hey into the universe and seeing who whispers back. 1060 02:26:48,000 --> 02:26:54,800 » Well, I would think you could get a list of short-term rental owners uh just from 1061 02:26:53,359 --> 02:26:58,399 public records. >> We'll see cuz I think when this 2 to 6% 1062 02:26:57,359 --> 02:27:01,359 they're going to want a little more out of this or putting more into it. They're 1063 02:26:59,920 --> 02:27:04,640 going to want more out of it. Well, they should already be interested in getting 1064 02:27:02,880 --> 02:27:09,600 engaged with us. We've been doing a lot this past year that we would love to 1065 02:27:06,080 --> 02:27:13,520 showcase and hear more from. Um, and and I know like a periodically 1066 02:27:11,600 --> 02:27:15,520 produced visitor guide. I don't know that we have to refresh it every single 1067 02:27:15,040 --> 02:27:17,920 year. >> Oh, it's getting refreshed then. 1068 02:27:17,120 --> 02:27:21,680 » That's a great >> But the digital ones are easier to 1069 02:27:19,520 --> 02:27:24,000 refresh than your pocket ones. >> People's [clears throat] uh 1070 02:27:22,560 --> 02:27:26,640 » we have to redo the whole thing with the brand right now. 1071 02:27:25,680 --> 02:27:30,399 » Yep. >> Visitor guide has been for that. 1072 02:27:28,800 --> 02:27:32,960 » Yeah. To to put in short-term rentals, etc. Um 1073 02:27:31,520 --> 02:27:37,680 » uh the other struggle with that though is so Deanna reached out and personally 1074 02:27:35,120 --> 02:27:41,200 got permission for discount codes. As a lot as our board, we really struggle 1075 02:27:39,359 --> 02:27:45,120 with trying to ask businesses to take on more of a burden with those discounts. 1076 02:27:42,800 --> 02:27:48,080 If they offer, wonderful, but we don't want to take that opportunity away from 1077 02:27:46,800 --> 02:27:51,280 someone if they're not willing to do that. You know, we want to be as 1078 02:27:49,840 --> 02:27:55,800 collaborative as possible, >> right? 1079 02:27:52,800 --> 02:27:55,800 » Um 1080 02:27:56,240 --> 02:28:02,000 one of the things on my list to say is just I really liked the booklet 1081 02:27:59,040 --> 02:28:07,600 initiative. I would love to see us do more of that. I I hope we continue to 1082 02:28:05,359 --> 02:28:11,920 focus on I appreciate the way you discuss that we need to consistently 1083 02:28:09,520 --> 02:28:15,520 renew and market and have new people coming in because people that come find 1084 02:28:14,080 --> 02:28:22,479 other destinations etc. Right? People change their habits. Um and I hope that 1085 02:28:19,359 --> 02:28:28,160 we still look at the central goal of a visit. A visit is checking the box when 1086 02:28:25,280 --> 02:28:32,319 that is a visit in our economy and not when it's a visit outside of our 1087 02:28:29,840 --> 02:28:36,000 economy. Is that is are are we still aligned with that strategy? 1088 02:28:33,520 --> 02:28:39,439 » That is the strategy of the board of county commissioners for our lodging tax 1089 02:28:38,000 --> 02:28:43,680 board. We're mostly just visitor education to know about the county and 1090 02:28:41,359 --> 02:28:47,920 welcome them here. We're not an economic driver. 1091 02:28:46,240 --> 02:28:51,680 » I think we Let's just put a marker there. 1092 02:28:49,920 --> 02:28:58,479 Okay. Let's let's try to have a focused conversation on that because I know that 1093 02:28:54,640 --> 02:29:02,640 we appoint the board. Um and and I hope like I know I want to have board members 1094 02:29:00,399 --> 02:29:08,479 on the tourism bureau board that want to say the goal is getting people into our 1095 02:29:05,680 --> 02:29:12,399 economy. Um and and I know like this the conversation about how to accomplish 1096 02:29:10,479 --> 02:29:15,920 that is a rich one and it does involve talking about adventure, right? So I'm 1097 02:29:14,560 --> 02:29:22,080 not pushing back on the use of adventure or anything like that. I just I hope 1098 02:29:17,680 --> 02:29:25,760 that the top goal remains getting people into our economy, 1099 02:29:23,600 --> 02:29:29,200 » right? As opposed to, hey, Floyd Hills is a great mountain biking park. Go up 1100 02:29:27,280 --> 02:29:32,800 and then go home and have a beer. Like, no, go up and come into Idaho Springs 1101 02:29:31,439 --> 02:29:36,479 and have a beer. >> So, just a refresh of our mission. It's 1102 02:29:34,960 --> 02:29:40,479 to position Clear Creek County as Colorado's premier mountain destination 1103 02:29:38,479 --> 02:29:44,319 by inspiring curiosity, fostering stewardship, and connecting visitors 1104 02:29:42,160 --> 02:29:48,000 with that authentic local experiences while supporting businesses, benefiting 1105 02:29:46,160 --> 02:29:53,760 our communities, and protecting our home and heritage. It doesn't necessarily say 1106 02:29:50,720 --> 02:29:57,840 economic driver. We do want that, but it's it's part of that game. You know, 1107 02:29:55,760 --> 02:30:01,760 they they learn about one spot on the edge of our county and then they come 1108 02:29:59,600 --> 02:30:05,359 back a little bit further. like it it's changing every touch point into 1109 02:30:03,760 --> 02:30:08,560 something else or converting every touch point into something else. We're 1110 02:30:07,120 --> 02:30:12,080 obviously not just saying, "Hey, go mountain bike everywhere." We've been 1111 02:30:10,319 --> 02:30:17,600 really strategic about placing the adventure back to the towns or just 1112 02:30:14,560 --> 02:30:22,479 showcasing our towns. >> I I think that works, George. 1113 02:30:19,439 --> 02:30:27,280 » Well, I think um we touched on that with the destination, staying the night, 1114 02:30:25,280 --> 02:30:30,560 keeping them here, adding the breakfast, adding the afternoon, adding the 1115 02:30:28,720 --> 02:30:34,880 shopping. That definitely is already part of the drive and has been the 1116 02:30:32,560 --> 02:30:40,240 discussion. It's just not highlighted as dollar to cash register. 1117 02:30:37,359 --> 02:30:45,359 So like that is a mission and overall getting the new audience and having stay 1118 02:30:42,560 --> 02:30:49,920 here and retain them. We're looking at connections with retention, reminding of 1119 02:30:48,080 --> 02:30:54,000 how romantic we are and then also offering people a place to slow down. 1120 02:30:52,399 --> 02:30:57,600 That's going to bring people to the registers. 1121 02:30:56,160 --> 02:31:02,160 » Great. I mean, yeah, and I appreciate you bringing up the mission statement. I 1122 02:31:00,080 --> 02:31:06,000 there's you you a mission statement has two goals, right? You're trying to sort 1123 02:31:04,080 --> 02:31:10,640 of record what your purpose is for your own 1124 02:31:08,240 --> 02:31:13,040 purposes, right? And I think there's there's because you're a marketing 1125 02:31:11,760 --> 02:31:17,040 agency, there's an external facing component. So, I know that this mission 1126 02:31:14,240 --> 02:31:20,319 statement won't only speak to those priorities, but I do think that this 1127 02:31:18,960 --> 02:31:24,160 mission statement could be in better alignment with what the board has 1128 02:31:21,840 --> 02:31:27,840 consistently stated it wants these dollars to be used for. 1129 02:31:26,319 --> 02:31:30,800 » Absolutely. I mean, we're still through our rebrand. We haven't touched our 1130 02:31:29,280 --> 02:31:32,880 vision and mission statements yet. That's just what it's historically been. 1131 02:31:32,560 --> 02:31:38,000 Yeah, >> we do want to push economics. It's just 1132 02:31:35,600 --> 02:31:41,840 education versus economics. One is a little bit obviously return right then 1133 02:31:40,399 --> 02:31:44,800 and there. The other one takes a little bit more longevity. 1134 02:31:43,040 --> 02:31:47,760 » Yeah. And education is like what? Trying to get people to um 1135 02:31:46,319 --> 02:31:51,040 » just know about it because especially think about when you're going around, 1136 02:31:49,280 --> 02:31:55,359 you may not know what county you're in. So, we're having the overall goal of 1137 02:31:54,000 --> 02:31:58,720 making sure you know what county you're in, what town you're in, where your new 1138 02:31:57,200 --> 02:32:02,720 stop is going to be, where you're going to take your parents when they visit, 1139 02:32:00,399 --> 02:32:09,000 you know, all those fun things. It is in our drive and I'm always totally down to 1140 02:32:05,760 --> 02:32:09,000 talk about that. 1141 02:32:09,040 --> 02:32:16,000 » Yeah. um a DMML from my perspective and colleagues if I'm if I'm 1142 02:32:14,960 --> 02:32:21,840 » DM >> a destination management marketing 1143 02:32:17,439 --> 02:32:27,200 organization from my perspective has two goals right 1144 02:32:25,120 --> 02:32:29,280 get people to behave better that are already here 1145 02:32:27,920 --> 02:32:34,080 » stewardship >> and drive economic outcomes 1146 02:32:32,720 --> 02:32:40,960 um >> so if we're reliant on that then I think 1147 02:32:37,600 --> 02:32:40,960 we would say 1148 02:32:41,040 --> 02:32:48,080 that we would only be talking about venture for the purpose of getting 1149 02:32:44,880 --> 02:32:50,800 someone closer closer to our businesses and for the purposes of getting someone 1150 02:32:49,520 --> 02:32:53,120 to adventure in a way that's not damaging. 1151 02:32:51,920 --> 02:32:56,000 » Right. [clears throat] It's not an end in itself. 1152 02:32:54,000 --> 02:32:58,479 » And adventure is such a loose term. >> Yeah. 1153 02:32:56,319 --> 02:33:01,760 » Like what I consider adventure is a nice walk by that wheel and then sitting 1154 02:33:00,000 --> 02:33:04,560 there and doing my crossstitch. You know, it could be riding up that 1155 02:33:03,040 --> 02:33:08,479 gondola. It could be riding down your mountain bike. Adventure is really up to 1156 02:33:06,479 --> 02:33:11,359 the beholder. That's why adventure is for everyone because adventure is 1157 02:33:10,080 --> 02:33:15,280 anything. >> I I really like your mission statement. 1158 02:33:13,680 --> 02:33:20,160 I think it hits on all the points that George was promoting and and I like 1159 02:33:17,600 --> 02:33:23,200 adventure is for everyone. I I think this is really good. 1160 02:33:21,600 --> 02:33:32,240 » I like adventure is for everyone, too. And I and um um so so that's 1161 02:33:28,880 --> 02:33:34,479 I I wanted to address that. Um I know that's going to continue to be a rich 1162 02:33:33,760 --> 02:33:40,479 conversation. >> Can I speak on that quickly? Um, I think 1163 02:33:37,200 --> 02:33:45,600 it would be unethical for us as a DMO to take money from our lodging partners and 1164 02:33:42,960 --> 02:33:50,080 then not create value in a way. I don't think we're doing it and just spoke on 1165 02:33:47,920 --> 02:33:55,600 this so directly that it's like this dollar comes in and this dollar is 1166 02:33:53,200 --> 02:33:59,840 turned into $6 that like is spread throughout the community. It's really 1167 02:33:57,120 --> 02:34:06,479 about like inspiring, changing the perception of Clear Creek County from 1168 02:34:02,560 --> 02:34:10,000 somewhere that might not have originally been a place that you wanted to visit to 1169 02:34:08,399 --> 02:34:15,680 somewhere that you're inspired to come and spend time at. So, every everything 1170 02:34:13,359 --> 02:34:20,800 we do is really focused on bringing people here in a sustainable way. And 1171 02:34:18,880 --> 02:34:26,640 ultimately, if we're doing our jobs correctly, then it should uh result in 1172 02:34:23,600 --> 02:34:30,240 dollars. It's just we want to make sure that we're building a really sustainable 1173 02:34:28,319 --> 02:34:34,800 product through and through. >> I get that too listening to people and 1174 02:34:32,800 --> 02:34:40,000 they're like, "Oh, Idaho Springs." Or, "Oh, Clear Creek County." Um, totally. 1175 02:34:37,120 --> 02:34:45,840 My kids, um, the millennials and the Gen Z's, they say that. And how we get that 1176 02:34:42,880 --> 02:34:51,200 to to change people's opinions, I don't know. Um, and it's hard because that is 1177 02:34:48,640 --> 02:34:53,840 something that's kind of like stuck. And when I hear them, I'm like, "What are 1178 02:34:52,560 --> 02:34:58,160 you talking about? Why are you saying that? And maybe I've even said that 1179 02:34:55,520 --> 02:35:02,880 stuff in the past. Um because I've had bad experiences in places and how you 1180 02:35:00,319 --> 02:35:07,200 get that how you get people to change. And I have to say when Rebecca and I 1181 02:35:04,880 --> 02:35:12,720 campaigned, we learned so much about Clear Fit County just getting out and 1182 02:35:09,280 --> 02:35:16,319 it's like, wait, we have that here. Um I didn't know that even growing up here 1183 02:35:14,720 --> 02:35:20,319 and I don't know how we advertise certain 1184 02:35:18,399 --> 02:35:24,960 things. Um because the businesses should be advertising some of that, right? Um, 1185 02:35:22,960 --> 02:35:29,520 but getting people to change those same patterns I think is such a huge thing. 1186 02:35:27,680 --> 02:35:33,760 And I am going and doing business in other places that I would have never 1187 02:35:31,680 --> 02:35:37,680 thought to do that just by changing my behavior by campaigning. 1188 02:35:36,160 --> 02:35:42,720 » One of the things that I feel like has guided almost everything that I've done 1189 02:35:39,760 --> 02:35:47,920 in my career is the easiest way or the fastest way for someone to let go of 1190 02:35:44,399 --> 02:35:51,439 fear is to give them a story to like to change their mind or their perception of 1191 02:35:49,760 --> 02:35:56,560 stuff. And that's what me and Jess are. >> Okay. I'm sorry. Um, would somebody shut 1192 02:35:54,080 --> 02:36:00,160 the door >> or coming from the basement? 1193 02:35:59,040 --> 02:36:04,697 » Oh, no. >> Work in the basement. 1194 02:36:02,678 --> 02:36:04,697 [laughter] 1195 02:36:05,439 --> 02:36:10,592 » On top of it, he's >> a 1196 02:36:07,359 --> 02:36:10,592 » basically Halloween season. [laughter] 1197 02:36:12,560 --> 02:36:15,359 » Thank you. >> Um, 1198 02:36:14,000 --> 02:36:19,840 » sorry. I I I appreciate you centering this on 1199 02:36:18,319 --> 02:36:24,240 the relationship with lodgers because I think I mean that was on my list to 1200 02:36:21,040 --> 02:36:28,640 discuss as well. Um I've heard it stated here that lodgers pay the lodging tax. I 1201 02:36:27,040 --> 02:36:32,080 don't think that's accurate. They collect and remit the lodging tax. 1202 02:36:30,720 --> 02:36:38,399 » Visitors pay it. >> Um 1203 02:36:34,000 --> 02:36:42,720 I we clearly have a a public benefit associated with with using these dollars 1204 02:36:41,520 --> 02:36:45,680 to get people into lodging establishments, right? So, I'm not 1205 02:36:43,840 --> 02:36:49,520 saying we shouldn't do that. Um, but I think we need to make sure we have the 1206 02:36:47,040 --> 02:36:54,080 order of operations correct. Our obligation around the use of these 1207 02:36:51,760 --> 02:36:58,479 funds is to the voters. >> Um, it is it is not to the lodgers. Uh, 1208 02:36:56,640 --> 02:37:03,120 the lodgers, we are grateful that they collect and remit that tax and we 1209 02:37:01,040 --> 02:37:07,200 certainly view them as an important part of this economy and and an important use 1210 02:37:05,680 --> 02:37:11,920 of these dollars is making sure that those places are full, right? Um, so, so 1211 02:37:10,240 --> 02:37:16,240 in no way am I saying that we shouldn't be trying to use these dollars for 1212 02:37:14,000 --> 02:37:24,000 economic benefit or for larger benefit. Um, I'm I'm I'm questioning 1213 02:37:20,399 --> 02:37:27,840 how and I'm sensing that from my perspective, 1214 02:37:25,920 --> 02:37:33,520 from this conversation I'm having to the last one I'm having, we've taken some 1215 02:37:29,920 --> 02:37:38,160 steps backward from what I thought we were really aligning around a strategy 1216 02:37:35,280 --> 02:37:41,840 of we all understand our top goal, a successful visit, is one that has a 1217 02:37:40,479 --> 02:37:45,840 spend. Um, and I when I asked that question, I 1218 02:37:44,160 --> 02:37:49,280 didn't get the kind of enthusiastic response 1219 02:37:47,920 --> 02:37:53,840 that I thought I would hear. So, I just I just want to reiterate that's that's 1220 02:37:52,000 --> 02:37:59,280 all. I don't I don't think I'm suggesting that we waste those dollars 1221 02:37:57,120 --> 02:38:00,560 or that we not use them to benefit. >> Let me 1222 02:37:59,760 --> 02:38:04,720 » our economy. >> Let me make it a little more colorful. 1223 02:38:02,319 --> 02:38:09,600 It's not It's not that it's not our goal. It's just if you have that as our 1224 02:38:07,120 --> 02:38:13,200 goal all the way over here, we as a board are seeing all the steps on how we 1225 02:38:11,439 --> 02:38:16,479 get there. Whether it's a visitors here and we can convert it to something else 1226 02:38:14,800 --> 02:38:20,080 or a visitors on the front range and we're just inspiring them to even look 1227 02:38:18,000 --> 02:38:24,240 on our website. It's a lot of touch points, but that is there. But we also 1228 02:38:22,560 --> 02:38:27,680 have to focus on all these other little initiatives that will make an impact 1229 02:38:26,160 --> 02:38:31,680 like our trails to town pocketbook guide. Hopefully that will change those 1230 02:38:29,840 --> 02:38:34,720 kind of behaviors. But we can't forget the people who are already here at a 1231 02:38:33,200 --> 02:38:38,640 restaurant. Maybe they should take a stroll and find something in a retail. 1232 02:38:36,479 --> 02:38:40,800 We've got a lot of things playing in the air. 1233 02:38:39,280 --> 02:38:44,720 » Yeah, definitely. Totally get that strategy. Okay, I'm off of that hobby 1234 02:38:42,800 --> 02:38:50,479 horse. Um, >> can I just say one thing? It definitely 1235 02:38:47,200 --> 02:38:54,319 remains my goal to get people from up there down here to spend. 1236 02:38:53,040 --> 02:38:57,439 » Where where's up there? >> Up there. Like people who are going up 1237 02:38:56,000 --> 02:39:02,640 the mountains, not spending any money. >> Oh, okay. The free stuff. 1238 02:38:59,120 --> 02:39:07,760 » Yes. Yes. The free people. [laughter] just coined a phrase. Um, 1239 02:39:05,280 --> 02:39:10,800 » but I do think there's two major categories of people up there. There's 1240 02:39:09,280 --> 02:39:15,439 people who don't go there because they don't want to spend money, and there's 1241 02:39:12,880 --> 02:39:21,439 the people who are uneducated. So, through this effort, we can tackle one 1242 02:39:18,880 --> 02:39:25,520 of them. I I don't maybe not tackle is a good word, but we can definitely 1243 02:39:22,479 --> 02:39:28,960 influence one of them to come down. the other one I think we can throw millions 1244 02:39:27,439 --> 02:39:35,520 of dollars at and they're not going to spend money, you know, and so hopefully 1245 02:39:32,240 --> 02:39:36,960 that, you know, helps in in what you're saying. 1246 02:39:36,080 --> 02:39:42,479 » 100%. >> Yeah. Good. And that's Oh, 1247 02:39:40,080 --> 02:39:49,040 » oh, and that's also where like looking at different like bringing different 1248 02:39:45,760 --> 02:39:52,560 people into the county who are more apt to spend money in the county is 1249 02:39:51,120 --> 02:39:56,880 something that needs to be a focus because like she said, the free people 1250 02:39:54,720 --> 02:40:00,800 will always be free. The people that have their granola bar and their like 1251 02:39:58,960 --> 02:40:04,960 gels in their backpack and they come up here and they hike and they like shoot 1252 02:40:02,640 --> 02:40:10,000 back down to Denver to eat more granola somewhere will always do that. What we 1253 02:40:07,840 --> 02:40:13,280 need to do is we need to understand food has the potential to really grow our 1254 02:40:11,680 --> 02:40:18,720 economy and that's something that we've been focused on while doing that in a 1255 02:40:15,840 --> 02:40:23,359 very sustainable educational way >> such as um I just wanted to touch base 1256 02:40:21,920 --> 02:40:27,280 on some of the strategies we've already implemented and some of the things to 1257 02:40:24,880 --> 02:40:30,720 come. Um you know Matt's been in here doing a lot of our social media. We're 1258 02:40:29,120 --> 02:40:35,040 also starting to work on not just our photography and like our content folders 1259 02:40:33,200 --> 02:40:39,600 so we know what to post. We're also trying to make sure that we're getting 1260 02:40:37,120 --> 02:40:43,200 um some more impactful engagement. So, one thing I'm really excited to 1261 02:40:41,200 --> 02:40:46,800 introduce is a partnership with I70 things. They are one of the premier 1262 02:40:44,960 --> 02:40:51,200 accounts on our highway. A lot of people look to them for weather, traffic 1263 02:40:48,399 --> 02:40:56,000 reports, and we've kind of had this problem for years. Relief peepers, they 1264 02:40:53,920 --> 02:41:00,160 come, they they don't really know what to do. They just do what the news told 1265 02:40:57,600 --> 02:41:03,840 them, and then they get stuck. And we really want to have a better hand in 1266 02:41:01,680 --> 02:41:08,640 supporting our EMS services. We are following um Jenny, our PIO over at the 1267 02:41:06,560 --> 02:41:12,640 sheriff. We're following Megan. We are not taking a lead in this. We're trying 1268 02:41:10,319 --> 02:41:16,000 to help with it. So, something that's different again, we're not just asking 1269 02:41:14,080 --> 02:41:19,680 for them to post with us. We're asking for a post, a call to action to a 1270 02:41:17,840 --> 02:41:23,520 website where we'll have all the information, whether it's alternative 1271 02:41:21,520 --> 02:41:28,080 hikes if you're in the area, places to eat while you're here, um emergency 1272 02:41:25,760 --> 02:41:32,080 contacts, how to park, all of those things that we've been pushing out. We 1273 02:41:30,479 --> 02:41:35,840 want it all in one place, especially with someone who has a great name behind 1274 02:41:33,760 --> 02:41:39,760 that. Um, I'm very thankful for Matt for helping us source that and a few other 1275 02:41:37,359 --> 02:41:43,439 ones as well, just so people get that secondhand experience or they get the 1276 02:41:41,840 --> 02:41:48,399 information they're seeking so we could have a say and how we behave. 1277 02:41:46,479 --> 02:41:51,520 » What do you mean by a great name behind that? 1278 02:41:49,040 --> 02:41:54,880 » Uh, I7 things is a really substantial name in social media. 1279 02:41:52,880 --> 02:41:58,240 » Okay. Okay. A lot of followers. >> Okay. Like if there's an accident on the 1280 02:41:56,800 --> 02:42:02,560 highway, most people are going to their phone to Instagram to look at that 1281 02:42:00,000 --> 02:42:05,920 account. I believe it's 434,000 followers right now. What about Reddit, 1282 02:42:04,399 --> 02:42:09,481 too? >> You're going for that 35 to 40 1283 02:42:07,840 --> 02:42:12,880 millennial. [laughter] 1284 02:42:10,880 --> 02:42:17,280 » I love a Reddit thread. I do get my news from Reddit, believe it or not. Um, it's 1285 02:42:15,760 --> 02:42:20,240 not something we've officially like touched on right now. I think we're just 1286 02:42:18,800 --> 02:42:25,439 trying to like check our boots on like the major platforms. it is something we 1287 02:42:22,240 --> 02:42:30,160 can look into but not quite on our board. Uh because these again are just a 1288 02:42:28,560 --> 02:42:35,200 few of the initiatives that we've been working on. There's only so much work 1289 02:42:32,479 --> 02:42:38,960 for one person to do. That's where I go to as Reddit. 1290 02:42:36,560 --> 02:42:42,080 » So um >> you're millennial. 1291 02:42:40,080 --> 02:42:45,280 » Yeah. I get a lot of information, especially about Cler Creek, 1292 02:42:44,000 --> 02:42:48,240 » you know, and if you're going to go skiing, you can check Reddit and they'll 1293 02:42:47,040 --> 02:42:51,760 tell you, hey, >> mile mark or whatever, you know, there's 1294 02:42:50,080 --> 02:42:56,720 an accident and I'll see stuff there before I see stuff in other places, too. 1295 02:42:54,240 --> 02:42:58,720 » Fair, fair, fair. Okay, I'll add that one to our list. 1296 02:42:57,439 --> 02:43:01,600 » Where to go to eat? >> I just have I just have two other 1297 02:43:00,080 --> 02:43:05,200 things. One is you already mentioned it. Idaho Springs collab strategy. Yes. I 1298 02:43:03,520 --> 02:43:09,840 really love and and I would love to see us duplicate that. That is tricky 1299 02:43:07,600 --> 02:43:13,760 because we're equitable in order to have fairness. We just haven't done 1300 02:43:12,080 --> 02:43:17,680 individual highlights. We have had people reach out on how to do that. We 1301 02:43:15,920 --> 02:43:22,080 want to get creative with our board on the direction of that. Matt and I have 1302 02:43:20,160 --> 02:43:26,800 gone back and forth. I mean, pretty much every conversation on that. Um, but that 1303 02:43:24,880 --> 02:43:30,800 also takes away the opportunity for the businesses who can't afford that. Even 1304 02:43:28,800 --> 02:43:36,240 if it's a small reduced fee, you want to make sure people can buy into it. But if 1305 02:43:34,479 --> 02:43:40,160 if the limit if funds are limited, especially as we leave leaf season into 1306 02:43:38,319 --> 02:43:43,760 that shoulder, I don't want to make financials be a strain. It could be a 1307 02:43:42,399 --> 02:43:47,279 lottery system. There's a lot of ways we can play with it, but you know, if the 1308 02:43:45,600 --> 02:43:50,720 goal is to support the businesses, I want to make sure it's an equal 1309 02:43:48,479 --> 02:43:54,960 opportunity. >> Um 1310 02:43:52,560 --> 02:43:57,040 I I hear you. Yeah. And I don't I don't think we should spend every dollar on 1311 02:43:56,319 --> 02:44:01,359 that, >> but I do think we should spend some 1312 02:43:58,319 --> 02:44:06,000 dollars on that. The co-op is funded by the businesses that are being featured 1313 02:44:03,040 --> 02:44:11,840 on it. So Tommy Knockers, Club Hotel, um, 1314 02:44:08,160 --> 02:44:16,399 uh, Slaymakers, all put in a certain amount of money and Diargo is now on the 1315 02:44:14,000 --> 02:44:22,640 co-op put in a certain amount of money that's kind of matched by Idaho Springs. 1316 02:44:19,600 --> 02:44:28,000 So that's where but that was because we weren't able to pass the funding to like 1317 02:44:24,960 --> 02:44:33,840 do any social media stuff uh without that co-op. Clear Creek has the money. 1318 02:44:31,200 --> 02:44:38,720 The struggle is really creating an >> Hold on. Hold on. [laughter] Hold on. 1319 02:44:37,359 --> 02:44:43,120 » We had We had zero. >> Get creative with the funds. 1320 02:44:40,880 --> 02:44:47,359 » We had zero dollars in Idaho Springs. So that's what that was born out of. um 1321 02:44:45,840 --> 02:44:50,640 this we just need to make sure that businesses feel like it's fair and 1322 02:44:48,880 --> 02:44:52,720 equitable and that's really been our struggle. 1323 02:44:51,200 --> 02:44:58,880 » I totally get that. Y um >> one thing that I want to go back to hers 1324 02:44:54,800 --> 02:45:03,359 is creating new opportunities because as marketers the more we have to talk about 1325 02:45:01,439 --> 02:45:06,960 is actually really beneficial for us and you want tubing. I want tubing. I think 1326 02:45:05,680 --> 02:45:10,399 everyone here wants to Oh >> in a safe manner. 1327 02:45:07,840 --> 02:45:16,240 » Yeah. In a safe manner. We want everything. So, how do we bring more 1328 02:45:13,920 --> 02:45:20,240 oper more businesses here? And that's something that we can do our best to 1329 02:45:18,399 --> 02:45:25,520 promote, but I don't think we're in a place to like create those necessarily. 1330 02:45:22,800 --> 02:45:29,760 » This is why alignment with the EDC is so crucial because the EDC does recruitment 1331 02:45:27,760 --> 02:45:33,040 and retention of businesses, helps them understand what the market looks like, 1332 02:45:31,520 --> 02:45:37,520 what they can offer, that they might want, and then you all are on the other 1333 02:45:35,680 --> 02:45:40,960 end communicating what we have. >> And we're working on a strategy with 1334 02:45:39,200 --> 02:45:43,760 them right now. So, I believe Lindsay's even in a meeting right now going with 1335 02:45:42,319 --> 02:45:47,680 their new website to recruit more businesses and we're trying to find a 1336 02:45:45,600 --> 02:45:51,040 strategy. So, once they're done, they found it, they got funding, they're 1337 02:45:49,120 --> 02:45:54,560 here, what's that next step for our board to come and support their 1338 02:45:52,319 --> 02:45:59,359 longevity in the area. So, those talks are being done. Um, and then one thing I 1339 02:45:57,120 --> 02:46:03,920 really do want to highlight is the CTO has a destination blueprint program. 1340 02:46:01,040 --> 02:46:07,680 This is a free program that's a three uh system kind of. They start with 1341 02:46:05,760 --> 02:46:11,359 assessments. They come in, they survey us to death, then they'll sit down with 1342 02:46:09,439 --> 02:46:15,920 us, talk to us about what we learned. Um, that stakeholder meeting will be 1343 02:46:13,200 --> 02:46:19,040 October 29th at Club Hotel from 8:00 a.m. to 1:00 p.m. I'll put that 1344 02:46:17,359 --> 02:46:22,880 everywhere. You'll get an invite, of course. Uh, we just finalized that date 1345 02:46:20,960 --> 02:46:27,040 and I meet with Beth this afternoon. But this program was highly competitive. 1346 02:46:25,040 --> 02:46:30,240 Only four entities received it this year. That's at least half of a 1347 02:46:28,640 --> 02:46:32,960 reduction from what they've seen. So, after the assessment, they'll go to 1348 02:46:31,600 --> 02:46:37,279 planning. They'll come and tell us what we've learned and then we'll go into 1349 02:46:35,120 --> 02:46:42,560 implementation. That's a hundred free hours of consulting from the CTO to back 1350 02:46:40,160 --> 02:46:46,640 up whatever we want to do. Uh me and Beth have worked really hard and we're 1351 02:46:44,319 --> 02:46:50,399 kind of understanding we want a roadmap for the county's future, but also kind 1352 02:46:48,479 --> 02:46:54,240 of the strategic plan for me and our board so we cannot just do these three 1353 02:46:52,800 --> 02:46:58,319 months. What do we want to do? We really want to have something overall. So 1354 02:46:56,479 --> 02:47:03,120 that's really where some of these bigger ideas are going to come into. and we're 1355 02:47:00,479 --> 02:47:06,000 really excited for that. Um, I'm just going to run through a few more things. 1356 02:47:04,479 --> 02:47:10,240 We've touched base on our trail map and visitor guide. We have a new rebrand. We 1357 02:47:08,240 --> 02:47:15,200 have more images. We're really trying to take this from a directory to be a 1358 02:47:12,240 --> 02:47:19,279 little bit more magazine directory. It's very white paged and we want it to be a 1359 02:47:17,439 --> 02:47:23,520 little more pizzazzy so people have an interest. We partnered with the trails 1360 02:47:21,439 --> 02:47:28,560 team. Thank you so much for giving us an updated map and accuracy of those. Once 1361 02:47:26,399 --> 02:47:32,720 that trail map portion is done, I spoke with um Ira Happy Llama, our printer 1362 02:47:31,120 --> 02:47:35,520 yesterday. We're just finalizing some things. Um then we're going to be 1363 02:47:34,080 --> 02:47:40,960 looking into our visitor guide and really having itineraries in there more 1364 02:47:38,319 --> 02:47:48,000 than just here's businesses you can ask questions to. Here's your story, find 1365 02:47:43,359 --> 02:47:54,000 yours or not stories. So sorry, we're friends. Um, so, uh, one thing 1366 02:47:51,359 --> 02:47:58,560 that I'm kind of jazzed about is we are up for an award for the Colorado 1367 02:47:56,080 --> 02:48:01,920 governor's, um, expl explanary destination stewardship 1368 02:48:00,560 --> 02:48:05,279 initiative. This is because of our trails to town guide. We're not just 1369 02:48:03,840 --> 02:48:09,439 telling people where to go or what to do. We're actually trying to put in 1370 02:48:06,880 --> 02:48:13,279 those leave no trace, how do you behave? Um, the CTO and leave no trace came 1371 02:48:11,680 --> 02:48:16,399 together a few years ago for do Colorado, right? For do Clear Creek 1372 02:48:15,040 --> 02:48:20,960 County, right? love to have those assets, but it's really also making sure 1373 02:48:19,200 --> 02:48:24,399 that economic driver is in there as well. So, we are a part of their 1374 02:48:22,880 --> 02:48:28,319 programming. We have their tools and assets. Um, and the people who run that 1375 02:48:26,800 --> 02:48:32,960 program are also with this destination blueprint. So, we have the right people 1376 02:48:30,160 --> 02:48:37,439 here helping us. >> I want to say that's pretty much it. You 1377 02:48:35,040 --> 02:48:40,960 know, we're just gearing up for our next steps. This is just kind of where we've 1378 02:48:39,200 --> 02:48:44,800 been, but I hope hearing from you guys, we can build a little bit more for our 1379 02:48:42,560 --> 02:48:48,960 future. We've got, you know, our budget planning about 90,000 usually for 1380 02:48:46,960 --> 02:48:53,200 marketing. We'll get creative with it. Um, if we do get this other grant, 1381 02:48:50,560 --> 02:48:58,640 that's about $147,000 coming in to boost our marketing. So, 1382 02:48:56,080 --> 02:49:03,439 and we'll find more. Any other questions, 1383 02:49:01,040 --> 02:49:05,600 comments, concerns? >> No. Thank you very much. 1384 02:49:04,720 --> 02:49:09,840 » Thank you very much. >> Yeah. And we were wondering where that 1385 02:49:07,040 --> 02:49:14,160 was with the the award. So, >> um, yes, we are, we have the tourism 1386 02:49:12,720 --> 02:49:17,920 conference at the end of this month on the 24th. If anyone wants to join, I can 1387 02:49:16,160 --> 02:49:22,000 get you a dinner ticket. Um, but we'll know that night. Um, we are competing 1388 02:49:20,080 --> 02:49:26,080 with Breen Ridge and Grand Junction. So, that is a high honor for me. And I hope 1389 02:49:24,319 --> 02:49:30,399 that we continue our stewardship efforts. You know, never want to make 1390 02:49:29,520 --> 02:49:34,560 » until it's announced. >> Until it's announced. So they did that 1391 02:49:32,240 --> 02:49:38,399 cuz I was up for the rising star in tourism award and they do it right then 1392 02:49:36,800 --> 02:49:43,840 and there and you're like yeah who did it? Wait, that's me. Oh, you got it. 1393 02:49:41,760 --> 02:49:46,880 Yeah, that was two years ago though. So all right, we're looking for right now. 1394 02:49:46,240 --> 02:49:50,240 » Absolutely. >> Before you all go, thank you. The 1395 02:49:48,880 --> 02:49:54,000 rebrand is incredible. You all have taken so many positive steps in the last 1396 02:49:51,920 --> 02:49:58,160 year. Uh I don't want I don't want my observations to like have a negative 1397 02:49:56,080 --> 02:50:01,200 tone to them. Uh overall, I'm really really happy and and specifically I want 1398 02:49:59,760 --> 02:50:05,279 to thank you Nicole Members. You've been on the tourism bureau board, I think, 1399 02:50:02,560 --> 02:50:07,040 since before I was elected. And >> that's my girl. 1400 02:50:05,920 --> 02:50:10,640 » You've stuck it out through a lot of stuff and provided a ton of value. I 1401 02:50:08,880 --> 02:50:16,000 just want to name you and thank you. >> Yep. And we like to listen. You know, 1402 02:50:13,680 --> 02:50:19,760 feedback is always feedback. Uh we're only the experts for what we know and we 1403 02:50:18,080 --> 02:50:23,600 want to know what you guys know. So, always bring things forward. It's never 1404 02:50:21,920 --> 02:50:26,399 it's never a fight. It's always a listen. 1405 02:50:24,399 --> 02:50:32,000 » It's an important place to live, too. So, I think that goes far. 1406 02:50:29,680 --> 02:50:34,240 Thank you very much. >> Thank you. 1407 02:50:32,560 --> 02:50:38,880 » And we have five for transition. >> Absolutely. Um we need to take a five 1408 02:50:36,720 --> 02:50:42,120 minute break and we will be right back. Thank you. 1409 02:58:43,600 --> 02:58:46,760 come up. 1410 02:58:47,600 --> 02:58:54,000 She has things to say, but you can just tell her to come up if you want. 1411 02:58:52,080 --> 02:58:58,880 » She's our valued consultant. >> I know. Yeah. Hi. 1412 02:58:55,520 --> 02:59:03,279 » Um Joanne, as our valued consultant, would you please join us up here? 1413 02:59:00,960 --> 02:59:05,680 » I think the plan was that she was going to come up when she wanted to speak. Is 1414 02:59:05,200 --> 02:59:08,080 that correct? >> Kind of me and Curtis. 1415 02:59:07,439 --> 02:59:11,359 » Okay. >> I mean, she's welcome to sit up here, 1416 02:59:09,520 --> 02:59:13,439 but I I think we already worked that out. 1417 02:59:12,240 --> 02:59:17,279 » All right. >> Didn't we work it out already? 1418 02:59:14,880 --> 02:59:23,240 » Not with me. >> With Joanne and with Sarah. 1419 02:59:20,080 --> 02:59:23,240 » We did. 1420 02:59:23,439 --> 02:59:31,200 No, I agree with you. >> Thank you. 1421 02:59:28,399 --> 02:59:36,359 » George agrees with me. >> It's 1422 02:59:32,960 --> 02:59:36,359 We all agree. 1423 03:00:09,760 --> 03:00:17,520 Thank you. Thank you. Clear Creek, Clear Creek Board of County Commissioners is 1424 03:00:15,040 --> 03:00:22,080 back in session. Uh next on the agenda is a work session uh presentation and 1425 03:00:20,479 --> 03:00:27,920 discussion of C dot reporting requirements of R25-47 1426 03:00:25,600 --> 03:00:32,840 for areas and activities of state interest case number SI2023-00001 1427 03:00:32,960 --> 03:00:41,040 which is the Floyd Hill construction and of resolution 25-46 1428 03:00:38,800 --> 03:00:47,680 for areas and activities of state interest case number SI2025-00001 1429 03:00:45,760 --> 03:00:52,560 one peak period shoulder lane operations. Um, Sid, would you like to 1430 03:00:50,319 --> 03:00:56,800 join us? >> Want us all just to come up? 1431 03:00:54,880 --> 03:01:00,960 » Any anyone who needs to participate, please come on up. 1432 03:01:00,080 --> 03:01:04,720 » We can >> Thank you, commissioners. Thank you for 1433 03:01:02,560 --> 03:01:08,640 having us here today. Got a good presentation for you. 1434 03:01:06,399 --> 03:01:14,319 » Um, our start, uh, I'm Kurt Bianc. I'm the C. Floyd Hills project director and 1435 03:01:11,600 --> 03:01:18,399 with me I brought a great panel of experts here to help answer any 1436 03:01:16,880 --> 03:01:21,200 questions about the presentation. So I'll let uh our folks introduce 1437 03:01:20,080 --> 03:01:24,000 ourselves here. Piper. >> Yeah, nice to see you commissioners. 1438 03:01:22,560 --> 03:01:26,880 Thank you for having me. Piper Darlington. I'm the director of the 1439 03:01:25,359 --> 03:01:32,240 Colorado Transportation Investment Office. We are responsible for operating 1440 03:01:29,920 --> 03:01:35,359 the express lane current express lanes and will be responsible for operating 1441 03:01:33,760 --> 03:01:39,520 the Floyd Hill Express Lane that's under construction. 1442 03:01:37,359 --> 03:01:43,279 Hello, my name is Edgar Badama. I'm on the Floyd Hill project. I'm the 1443 03:01:41,120 --> 03:01:46,640 construction project manager. >> Hi there, I'm Saca Sers. I lead 1444 03:01:45,200 --> 03:01:51,040 communications for the Floyd Hill project. And I'm Adafasi. I'm a project 1445 03:01:49,439 --> 03:01:55,520 manager in the environmental department for the I7 corridor. So, I help manage 1446 03:01:53,279 --> 03:01:58,560 all the environmental stipulations. And then I just wanted to point out in the 1447 03:01:56,960 --> 03:02:02,880 crowd, we have a couple subject matter experts as well. Jenny Karns, who is our 1448 03:02:01,040 --> 03:02:06,479 noise and visual expert, and Joshua Giovanetti, who uh is our water quality 1449 03:02:05,040 --> 03:02:11,680 expert today. Hey, thank you and and thank you for our 1450 03:02:09,040 --> 03:02:15,520 quick tour uh last week with the congressman. 1451 03:02:13,439 --> 03:02:19,200 That that that gave us a good good flavor of what's currently going on. 1452 03:02:18,240 --> 03:02:23,680 » Absolutely. >> Changes all the time. Garrett, 1453 03:02:21,120 --> 03:02:28,960 » before we get going, um just in terms of process, do you want staff to present 1454 03:02:26,640 --> 03:02:32,880 the memo or should we skip the memo and just go right to C DOT's presentation? I 1455 03:02:31,359 --> 03:02:37,840 think you're a little bit flexible on how you want to approach this. So 1456 03:02:35,359 --> 03:02:38,800 » we can skip the memo for me. Read it. I don't know. 1457 03:02:38,319 --> 03:02:40,720 » Figured. >> I've read it. 1458 03:02:39,279 --> 03:02:43,439 » Read it. Okay. >> Okay. Great. 1459 03:02:41,840 --> 03:02:44,800 » In the interest of time. Sure. Thank you. 1460 03:02:43,600 --> 03:02:49,439 » And then the other thing I'll just note is since this is all most of our first 1461 03:02:47,680 --> 03:02:53,520 time doing this with these reporting requirements, we don't have to discuss 1462 03:02:50,960 --> 03:02:56,640 it today now, but maybe just be thinking about how we want to do this in the 1463 03:02:55,040 --> 03:02:59,279 future. What's working? What's not what not working for 1464 03:02:57,760 --> 03:03:02,160 » for in terms [clears throat] of process. Yeah. Okay. Thanks. 1465 03:03:00,240 --> 03:03:05,680 » Thank you. >> Thank you. 1466 03:03:04,000 --> 03:03:11,040 So to get us started, I just want to review how we got to where we are here 1467 03:03:07,760 --> 03:03:15,359 today with the um timeline and just review uh some of the reports that we 1468 03:03:13,279 --> 03:03:21,680 submitted as well. So back in November of last year, we met with county staff 1469 03:03:18,479 --> 03:03:27,279 um and determined what the reports look like, how they were, and um county staff 1470 03:03:25,279 --> 03:03:32,479 asked for only raw data with no seed dot analysis for the reporting requirements. 1471 03:03:28,960 --> 03:03:37,600 So if you look at the reports data with no commentary from us on it on 1472 03:03:35,760 --> 03:03:45,920 June 15th we submitted all of the reports uh per the 1041 requirements. Um 1473 03:03:42,240 --> 03:03:50,160 July 30th COT and Clear Creek County met to discuss the reporting per the 1474 03:03:48,000 --> 03:03:56,160 stipulations. And that brings us to today uh where we are here to report on 1475 03:03:54,240 --> 03:04:00,479 uh the requirements per the stipulations. 1476 03:03:57,840 --> 03:04:03,520 Um, couple things to just note here. Because this is the first round of 1477 03:04:01,840 --> 03:04:07,920 reporting delivered, we can't really compare it back to anything. So, next 1478 03:04:06,000 --> 03:04:13,840 year it'll look different since we're have a couple years of data that we 1479 03:04:09,600 --> 03:04:19,760 reported on. Um and just also to note there, you know, this is joint between 1480 03:04:16,160 --> 03:04:24,479 the Floyd Hill project and CTIO as well and they are under different permits and 1481 03:04:22,080 --> 03:04:30,240 C dot has still approached tracking and reporting them in a separate manner and 1482 03:04:27,200 --> 03:04:35,040 not didn't combine them. So I'm going to start with Floyd Hill 1483 03:04:32,399 --> 03:04:40,080 and then um we're after that we're turn over to CTIO and Piper to go through it 1484 03:04:37,200 --> 03:04:46,560 here. Um just a quick review of the reports that we submitted per the 1041 1485 03:04:43,439 --> 03:04:54,240 permit. Uh we submitted an air quality report, a noise monitoring report, a 1486 03:04:50,640 --> 03:04:58,040 water quality report, a safety report, and then traffic counts. 1487 03:04:59,359 --> 03:05:06,720 So our start with the traffic counts, we submitted raw data. I put it in just a 1488 03:05:04,319 --> 03:05:13,040 little bit better format here to present on. Um, we looked at different Fridays 1489 03:05:10,000 --> 03:05:18,000 per the 10:41 requirements. The Friday of before Memorial Day, the Friday 1490 03:05:15,279 --> 03:05:22,880 before Labor Day, the Thursday before the 4th of July, the Friday before the 1491 03:05:19,920 --> 03:05:28,319 4th of July, Friday before MLK day, and Friday of President's Day. And so 1492 03:05:25,920 --> 03:05:33,359 looking at the the traffic numbers here, Friday before 4th of July was the 1493 03:05:30,800 --> 03:05:39,200 busiest day in 2025. Um, per these reports. Um, and then and 1494 03:05:37,520 --> 03:05:42,720 that's for westbound I70. People traveling westbound. Traveling 1495 03:05:40,560 --> 03:05:47,200 eastbound, it was President's Day was the busiest day. The Friday before 1496 03:05:44,160 --> 03:05:50,479 President's Day. And just to give you, you know, I won't go into all of the 1497 03:05:48,479 --> 03:05:56,640 data here, but you can see the amount of traffic that diverts at Empire gets off 1498 03:05:54,160 --> 03:06:00,240 in the westbound direction, which is a decent amount um from the amount of 1499 03:05:59,040 --> 03:06:03,520 traffic that travels through the Veterans Memorial Tunnels or through 1500 03:06:02,160 --> 03:06:08,479 traverses through the Floyd Hill project. And then you can see a drop as 1501 03:06:05,840 --> 03:06:11,960 you get up to uh the Eisenhower Johnson memorial tunnels. 1502 03:06:16,880 --> 03:06:24,000 So, I will turn over to Edgar to review our safety the crash data for the Floyd 1503 03:06:21,680 --> 03:06:30,479 Hill stretch of I7. Sounds good. Thank you, Kurt. Uh, for 2025, 1504 03:06:27,200 --> 03:06:36,800 we managed to get data from U. Colorado State Patrol and Idaho Springs Police. 1505 03:06:33,600 --> 03:06:44,960 Um the total volume of uh crashes was 122 crashes for this um portion of I7 1506 03:06:41,279 --> 03:06:51,760 from mile post 241 to 248 which is basically the Floyd Hill construction 1507 03:06:47,520 --> 03:06:58,720 zone. Um the severity of the crashes, there was one fatality and uh 32 1508 03:06:55,120 --> 03:07:05,040 injuries. Uh with the one fatality being um on the reporting for that data or for 1509 03:07:02,800 --> 03:07:12,479 that accident, it indicated that it involved police police activity and um 1510 03:07:10,080 --> 03:07:18,560 some sort of pursuit um on that incident. So it wasn't necessarily 1511 03:07:14,080 --> 03:07:26,319 related to uh construction activity. Um the top cra uh top crash types that were 1512 03:07:22,319 --> 03:07:33,600 involved were rear ends with 42 and same direction sidewipes with 35 accidents. 1513 03:07:30,720 --> 03:07:40,560 um for the the conditions of the accidents about 70 for 76% of the 1514 03:07:36,960 --> 03:07:45,200 accidents which is 93 crashes there were the highway was fine you know it was dry 1515 03:07:42,640 --> 03:07:50,960 clear conditions um and when we had the most accidents 1516 03:07:49,359 --> 03:07:56,880 those accidents happened in July and August with 14 accidents um each each of 1517 03:07:54,960 --> 03:08:04,560 those two months and then our lowest month was um in November 1518 03:08:00,240 --> 03:08:11,359 And then between the 122 accidents, it was split fairly split between the each 1519 03:08:07,840 --> 03:08:15,520 direction of I70 with 60 accidents going eastbound and 62 accidents going 1520 03:08:13,600 --> 03:08:18,240 westbound. >> So fairly 1521 03:08:17,600 --> 03:08:21,439 split. >> Yeah. 1522 03:08:19,920 --> 03:08:24,720 » Thank you, [clears throat] Edgar. And I do I just do want to highlight the only 1523 03:08:23,200 --> 03:08:29,520 data sources we were able to get was Colorado State Patrol and Idaho Springs. 1524 03:08:26,399 --> 03:08:34,800 We did reach out to the county sheriff and do as well and they didn't have any 1525 03:08:32,160 --> 03:08:37,680 reporting that they took that was the feedback that we got from them. So those 1526 03:08:36,240 --> 03:08:41,240 were the only data sources where we were able to pull from. 1527 03:08:42,160 --> 03:08:50,160 With that I will turn it over to Abby. >> All right. Well I'm sure um you are all 1528 03:08:47,760 --> 03:08:54,080 familiar with the air quality monitoring that we're required to do as part of the 1529 03:08:51,680 --> 03:08:59,680 Floyd Hill project. Um, it originally started as part of SB21-260, 1530 03:08:56,720 --> 03:09:04,080 which is state statute, requires us to monitor air quality on any regionally 1531 03:09:02,000 --> 03:09:08,960 significant transportation capacity project. Um, but we're also doing some 1532 03:09:06,720 --> 03:09:14,640 air quality as part of the requirements of the 1041 permit. Um, so as you know, 1533 03:09:12,080 --> 03:09:20,160 we've uh partnered with you all to build a particulate matter dashboard that's 1534 03:09:16,560 --> 03:09:25,680 live um and you can access at any time. We have that running 24/7. Um we do 1535 03:09:23,120 --> 03:09:31,279 sometimes have communication issues here and there when we're you know uh fixing 1536 03:09:29,279 --> 03:09:35,120 the monitors or something of that nature but uh for the most part it is running. 1537 03:09:33,439 --> 03:09:41,279 We'll continue this particulate mattering monitoring through uh 20 2031. 1538 03:09:38,960 --> 03:09:45,439 Um and after the construction is complete we've committed to adding an 1539 03:09:43,120 --> 03:09:51,439 additional 6 months of gas monitoring. So that will mirror our preconstruction 1540 03:09:48,000 --> 03:09:56,560 requirements. Um, we're not required to monitor gases through construction per 1541 03:09:54,240 --> 03:10:00,640 uh SB21-260. Um, but in order to compare conditions 1542 03:09:59,279 --> 03:10:05,600 before construction and after construction, we have committed to 1543 03:10:02,160 --> 03:10:10,479 adding that on. And uh, we do provide you all with an annual summarized 1544 03:10:07,359 --> 03:10:15,520 reports that includes analysis of any air quality alerts that we have. So, um, 1545 03:10:13,200 --> 03:10:20,080 there is an internal and an external level for particulate matter. When that 1546 03:10:18,240 --> 03:10:24,640 level is reached, we're required to investigate whether or not it was caused 1547 03:10:22,319 --> 03:10:28,319 by construction activity, wildfire smoke, or perhaps something else. Um, 1548 03:10:27,200 --> 03:10:32,720 » backups. >> Yeah. Whatever it might be. Um, and 1549 03:10:30,880 --> 03:10:37,200 thankfully, all alerts that we've gotten to date have been on days where we've 1550 03:10:34,880 --> 03:10:41,520 had really poor air quality because of wildfire smoke. Um, so we haven't 1551 03:10:39,760 --> 03:10:46,399 actually had any that are attributed to construction at this time. Um, so the 1552 03:10:44,240 --> 03:10:50,880 annual summarized report does include an analysis of any of our alerts that we 1553 03:10:48,640 --> 03:10:55,520 have. Um, and we're happy to walk through you with those with you at any 1554 03:10:52,880 --> 03:11:00,319 time. And additionally, you can sign up for uh, air quality alerts through the 1555 03:10:57,840 --> 03:11:05,279 link that's um, included in the in the um, slides if you want to get those 1556 03:11:02,399 --> 03:11:10,479 directly um, in your email. You can move on to the next slide. 1557 03:11:08,000 --> 03:11:15,680 We're also required to report on noise. That's part of our 1041 environmental 1558 03:11:12,720 --> 03:11:19,600 stipulations. Um, so we have committed to identifying a noise monitoring 1559 03:11:18,000 --> 03:11:24,160 location for each of the four construction packages. We tried to 1560 03:11:22,319 --> 03:11:29,840 strategically choose locations that would be representative of a user, 1561 03:11:27,200 --> 03:11:34,080 recreational user on the greenway trail or rafter um someone who might be trying 1562 03:11:32,399 --> 03:11:39,359 to recreate throughout the Floyd Hill project area. Um, and we take noise 1563 03:11:37,279 --> 03:11:43,920 measurements four times a year at those four locations. That's during peak and 1564 03:11:41,840 --> 03:11:49,200 off- peak traffic during summer and winter. So, once during the busy season, 1565 03:11:46,800 --> 03:11:55,359 the busy ski season, and once during our busy summer recreation season. Uh, with 1566 03:11:52,960 --> 03:12:00,880 this noise analysis, we've also tried to understand when peak and off- peak 1567 03:11:57,439 --> 03:12:06,479 traffic actually is. Um, and we have found that it's basically peak traffic 1568 03:12:03,840 --> 03:12:11,439 is essentially between 10:00 a.m. and 3:00 p.m. on Fridays with off- peak 1569 03:12:08,880 --> 03:12:14,880 being anywhere outside of commuting hours during the weekdays. So, we do our 1570 03:12:13,520 --> 03:12:20,000 best to get out there during those times. Again, this was the first 1571 03:12:17,680 --> 03:12:25,040 required monitoring session, so we'll be able to do some more comparison once we 1572 03:12:22,160 --> 03:12:29,760 have additional years of data. Um, but I also wanted to point out too that in our 1573 03:12:26,960 --> 03:12:34,720 NEPA mitigation commit commitments, um, the project is committed to abiding by 1574 03:12:31,680 --> 03:12:42,240 local noise ordinances. So, I know noise is a big issue. It's a very difficult, 1575 03:12:38,479 --> 03:12:46,960 um, it it's very difficult to to measure depending on where you are in time and 1576 03:12:44,240 --> 03:12:52,319 in space. Um, so there's a lot of factors that make it difficult to 1577 03:12:49,279 --> 03:12:55,920 measure noise, but um, I think keeping measurements at these four locations 1578 03:12:53,920 --> 03:13:00,960 throughout construction will be representative of someone who might be 1579 03:12:58,640 --> 03:13:06,720 um, trying to recreate in in the project area in the future. 1580 03:13:03,760 --> 03:13:11,279 You can move on to the next one. Um, so this is just an overview of the 1581 03:13:08,720 --> 03:13:15,279 noise monitoring locations again um, representing each of the four 1582 03:13:12,640 --> 03:13:19,760 construction packages. um and they are offset from the road just a little bit. 1583 03:13:17,439 --> 03:13:25,200 Um this is a little different than we typically do noise monitoring. Noise 1584 03:13:22,080 --> 03:13:30,800 monitoring is a very prescribed process. Um but that being said, um it's these 1585 03:13:28,880 --> 03:13:35,279 locations aren't necessarily uh representative of a specific receptor, 1586 03:13:33,040 --> 03:13:40,479 which is typically how we measure noise, right? Maybe the community center or a 1587 03:13:38,319 --> 03:13:45,920 school or a church or specific residents. these represent more a larger 1588 03:13:43,120 --> 03:13:50,560 area. Um, so we'll have to see as time goes on kind of uh how noise changes in 1589 03:13:48,319 --> 03:13:53,600 those locations, but we take traffic counts as well when we're doing our 1590 03:13:52,000 --> 03:13:57,120 noise monitoring so we can kind of compare um what traffic is at that point 1591 03:13:56,080 --> 03:14:04,359 in time. >> Um, so [snorts] you think after 1592 03:14:01,359 --> 03:14:04,359 construction 1593 03:14:04,399 --> 03:14:11,200 that the monitors should move? Is that >> um 1594 03:14:09,120 --> 03:14:15,200 » I don't think so. We tried to choose locations and and it's to be clear, it's 1595 03:14:13,359 --> 03:14:18,399 not a monitor that stays out all the time. It's something that we do and we 1596 03:14:16,800 --> 03:14:21,439 go out and bring our monitor. >> Okay. 1597 03:14:18,800 --> 03:14:26,000 » Um and these locations should be relatively stable throughout 1598 03:14:23,359 --> 03:14:32,080 construction. Um we tried to choose locations that would be either in in the 1599 03:14:28,800 --> 03:14:37,279 future under the roadway. Um, so our hope is that when we raise the roadway 1600 03:14:34,080 --> 03:14:41,279 and um, vehicles are above someone who might be using the trail that hopefully 1601 03:14:38,880 --> 03:14:45,200 it's a more pleasant experience. Um, that's the goal. And again, these should 1602 03:14:43,520 --> 03:14:50,800 still be accessible throughout construction and after. 1603 03:14:48,880 --> 03:14:55,760 » I'll I'll [clears throat] just share >> a concern. Um, part of our intent is to 1604 03:14:53,439 --> 03:14:59,279 understand how construction itself is affecting the 1605 03:14:58,080 --> 03:15:04,160 noise. I think part of the intent of the 1041 is to understand how the project is 1606 03:15:02,239 --> 03:15:09,520 affecting noise in the corridor because it's it's going to result well likely 1607 03:15:06,319 --> 03:15:14,319 will result in more cars further west. >> Um it would make sense to me that we 1608 03:15:11,840 --> 03:15:19,520 would be focused on noise monitors to to get some baseline there to have do noise 1609 03:15:17,279 --> 03:15:24,000 monitoring near sensitive receptors like you mentioned. Mhm. 1610 03:15:20,720 --> 03:15:30,080 » Um I hear frequently from a couple parts of Idaho Springs where there's 1611 03:15:25,840 --> 03:15:34,960 inadequate noise barriers. Um and and I know I'm not like further west of Idaho 1612 03:15:32,640 --> 03:15:38,880 Springs are also important receptors. Is there any ability or appetite to 1613 03:15:37,359 --> 03:15:42,319 establish a baseline? >> We're definitely willing if there's a 1614 03:15:40,720 --> 03:15:45,120 specific location you're concerned about, we're definitely willing to 1615 03:15:43,600 --> 03:15:50,239 adjust those. That's kind of just what we were doing before the 1041 was even 1616 03:15:47,279 --> 03:15:56,479 in place. Um, but we're willing to adjust those as you see fit. I was I 1617 03:15:53,279 --> 03:16:00,720 have been thinking that um new uh multi-resident uh buildings like on the 1618 03:15:58,960 --> 03:16:05,120 west end of Idaho Springs might be a good place for that. Um, and then I also 1619 03:16:03,040 --> 03:16:11,520 want to point out too that the other 1041 permit, the um, CTIO 1620 03:16:09,040 --> 03:16:15,439 um, permit does add additional locations. Um, and those are more 1621 03:16:13,520 --> 03:16:20,399 focused on residents because they've been measured since 2018 when the lane 1622 03:16:18,880 --> 03:16:26,000 was in place. So, we can take a look at those and compare them. And it's easy 1623 03:16:23,439 --> 03:16:30,960 enough to add a fifth location or change one of these um, if there's a location 1624 03:16:27,920 --> 03:16:35,479 you're specifically concerned about. >> Okay. Thank you. 1625 03:16:31,760 --> 03:16:35,479 » Yeah, of course. 1626 03:16:38,479 --> 03:16:46,640 » All right, I'll pass it off to Josh to outline our water quality efforts. 1627 03:16:44,239 --> 03:16:52,239 » Hello. Um, so what we're looking at here, um, are 1628 03:16:49,600 --> 03:16:58,960 our project area water quality sampling locations. Um, these include, 1629 03:16:56,720 --> 03:17:05,840 let's see, three continuous monitoring stations. Now, um, 1630 03:17:02,000 --> 03:17:12,000 let's see if they're named 3-1, uh, 4-1 download or I guess down by 1631 03:17:09,359 --> 03:17:14,800 sample four. And then there's a new one we installed. I'll talk about later at 1632 03:17:13,760 --> 03:17:19,359 CC. >> Yeah, I I apologize. I can't read the 1633 03:17:17,120 --> 03:17:23,040 numbers on there. Kind of tell us where they are. 1634 03:17:20,000 --> 03:17:27,040 » One is upstream um right below the Veterans Memorial Tunnels. 1635 03:17:24,479 --> 03:17:30,960 » Thank you. Um the other one is at the bottom of the hill um right by the raft 1636 03:17:29,520 --> 03:17:34,960 uh takeout >> and those two have been there for 1637 03:17:32,880 --> 03:17:40,399 decades of other monitoring requirements and 1638 03:17:37,120 --> 03:17:47,439 other um kind of NEA um programs we have. And then the new one um is called 1639 03:17:44,000 --> 03:17:54,560 CC5 and it's installed along Highway 6 further downstream. And the idea of that 1640 03:17:50,560 --> 03:17:59,520 was to capture um the modifications we did to the uh to going down the hill 1641 03:17:56,960 --> 03:18:05,920 itself, the widening of the the hill and Johnson Gulch. I think 1642 03:18:01,680 --> 03:18:12,160 » so. Um we also have on this site or on this screen 1643 03:18:07,680 --> 03:18:18,080 uh intra project u grab sample locations. Um so we submitted a discrete 1644 03:18:15,200 --> 03:18:25,120 sampling plan and the and the intent there is to um look at different small 1645 03:18:22,319 --> 03:18:30,880 catchment characteristics whether they have deicer um more forested bridges 1646 03:18:28,720 --> 03:18:36,319 essenti a lot of times above and below throughout the project and monitor and 1647 03:18:32,960 --> 03:18:42,080 see how the um the actual mitigation uh the design performs throughout the 1648 03:18:39,439 --> 03:18:45,200 project. So what we're getting now is essentially baseline. 1649 03:18:43,600 --> 03:18:48,640 » Um it is being influenced a little bit by construction, but we're getting 1650 03:18:46,720 --> 03:18:53,920 baseline and then as each one of these structures come online, 1651 03:18:50,720 --> 03:18:57,760 » we we hope to see some changes or um we look to see um how well our mitigation 1652 03:18:56,720 --> 03:19:01,600 is is functioning. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it'll definitely 1653 03:18:59,200 --> 03:19:08,640 be interesting to compare it to the the final um configuration of the roadways 1654 03:19:04,880 --> 03:19:13,120 and see if Clear Creek gets cleaner or there's the deicer problem. 1655 03:19:10,880 --> 03:19:16,080 » Yep. Um and this is really interesting information too. Um there's a lot of 1656 03:19:14,560 --> 03:19:19,920 interested groups in Aqua and Trout Unlimited and um been a lot of 1657 03:19:18,080 --> 03:19:26,880 discussion at the tunnel around deicer inputs to uh the creek. Um and a lot of 1658 03:19:22,960 --> 03:19:32,960 the um information we're collecting is is uh new and enlightening. So this is 1659 03:19:30,160 --> 03:19:38,960 an exciting time actually for research. >> Um so this is the sampling plan. We did 1660 03:19:35,279 --> 03:19:43,439 four sample events last winter. Um three of them were standard sample events 1661 03:19:40,880 --> 03:19:48,800 capturing uh typical seasons. So December, February, and May. Um and then 1662 03:19:45,520 --> 03:19:52,640 one was this posttorm event. >> What was the last one? 1663 03:19:50,000 --> 03:19:58,319 » Post storm. So >> and that's part of our plan. Um 1664 03:19:56,239 --> 03:20:03,439 there was a control site the the one modification we are having to the plan. 1665 03:20:00,479 --> 03:20:11,040 We had a control site on Beaverbrook. Um we expected it to be uh a good location 1666 03:20:08,000 --> 03:20:15,920 for control. It turned out to have really high TDS um which [clears throat] 1667 03:20:13,600 --> 03:20:20,239 in influenced our chloride calculation. So we ended up moving our control site 1668 03:20:17,760 --> 03:20:24,960 over to Fall River. Um, and that one's perform looks looks much better. So, we 1669 03:20:23,040 --> 03:20:27,920 submitted a modification to the plan. Um, you'll see 1670 03:20:26,080 --> 03:20:29,600 » what was wrong with beaver broke. >> Uh, 1671 03:20:28,319 --> 03:20:34,000 » probably the water treatment plant. >> Water treatment plant. Yes. 1672 03:20:31,439 --> 03:20:40,120 » Thank you. >> Yeah, chloride's kind of a it's we 1673 03:20:36,239 --> 03:20:40,120 calculated and so 1674 03:20:42,640 --> 03:20:46,080 um driving. >> Oh, never mind. I've got a couple 1675 03:20:45,279 --> 03:20:47,359 questions, but I want >> Sure. 1676 03:20:46,319 --> 03:20:50,479 » If you want to go back, you can. >> No, no, no. I I want to hear the the 1677 03:20:49,439 --> 03:20:54,880 full what? >> Okay. Yeah. So, this is essentially the 1678 03:20:52,080 --> 03:21:00,080 results of the first um discrete sampling plan. So, the grab samples four 1679 03:20:56,720 --> 03:21:03,120 times a year. Um and so what we're doing here is essentially establishing 1680 03:21:01,359 --> 03:21:09,760 baseline. You're not you don't really see any trends yet. This is our first um 1681 03:21:06,479 --> 03:21:14,080 kind of year and don't see a lot of above and below or you know what would 1682 03:21:11,680 --> 03:21:18,319 we expect to what we expect in the future to provide potentially this delta 1683 03:21:16,640 --> 03:21:23,359 of um more natural versus built out in uh 1684 03:21:21,439 --> 03:21:25,359 cont contributing basins. >> Um actually I do have a question on 1685 03:21:25,120 --> 03:21:29,520 this. >> Sure. 1686 03:21:26,640 --> 03:21:34,880 » I'm reading in the staff report that in late February, early March 2025, 1687 03:21:32,720 --> 03:21:41,040 we were seeing concentrations around 591 milligrams. Is 1688 03:21:38,720 --> 03:21:44,800 that milligrams, micrograms per liter? Um this data looks significantly 1689 03:21:43,600 --> 03:21:50,160 different. Is this a different time period? Well, I think the Are you sorry, 1690 03:21:47,840 --> 03:21:53,040 are you reading from the analysis that the county provided? 1691 03:21:51,760 --> 03:21:57,520 » Yeah, it says >> so it's it's very confusing and I just 1692 03:21:55,439 --> 03:22:03,520 wanted to this is actually good to have this conversation because there's data 1693 03:22:00,080 --> 03:22:10,479 from the continuous monitors which are taking a sample an average sample every 1694 03:22:06,080 --> 03:22:15,200 hour. So that's CC1 through CC5 which may be where that data was pulled from. 1695 03:22:13,200 --> 03:22:20,080 And then there's the discrete sampling plan where we're going out and taking a 1696 03:22:16,880 --> 03:22:25,040 grab sample at these distinct times which is probably why you're seeing 1697 03:22:21,920 --> 03:22:29,760 different information. So as part of the submitt we also had to provide data from 1698 03:22:27,840 --> 03:22:32,000 the continuous sampling plan. >> Okay. Got it. 1699 03:22:30,560 --> 03:22:35,200 » Yeah. So >> this this is now that I read it this is 1700 03:22:33,520 --> 03:22:38,479 clearly from the continuous sampling. >> There's there'll be a following slide. 1701 03:22:36,720 --> 03:22:43,439 » Yeah. >> There's a lot going on. 1702 03:22:41,279 --> 03:22:49,520 Um, one thing to note also is everybody knows this is a really low water year. 1703 03:22:45,279 --> 03:22:55,359 Um, that graph on the right is uh the June July uh melt period. Um, 1704 03:22:54,160 --> 03:23:00,239 » so we'll have >> normal versus this year 1705 03:22:58,319 --> 03:23:03,439 » 2025 versus 2026. >> You think you'd see higher 1706 03:23:01,200 --> 03:23:08,000 concentrations in a high precipitation year or a low precipitation year? So 1707 03:23:05,600 --> 03:23:12,640 we've done a lot of multivaried uh statistical analysis on on the 1708 03:23:10,239 --> 03:23:19,840 conductivity and so far the only thing we find a true hard correlation with is 1709 03:23:16,000 --> 03:23:24,319 flow. So it's dilution. Um so the more water in the stream the lower the 1710 03:23:22,720 --> 03:23:29,279 salinity. >> The only solution to pollution is 1711 03:23:26,720 --> 03:23:32,680 » you [laughter] go Richard Nixon. 1712 03:23:33,200 --> 03:23:39,239 This one is very difficult because that is very true. 1713 03:23:36,000 --> 03:23:39,239 » It's true. 1714 03:23:40,479 --> 03:23:47,439 » And so let's see next one. Here we go. Here's the uh so the second requirement 1715 03:23:46,000 --> 03:23:55,600 was to install a new continuous monitoring location. Um our first 1716 03:23:51,120 --> 03:23:59,120 location was just downstream of the raft takeout around the bend. I think there's 1717 03:23:57,680 --> 03:24:02,640 a public mining claim there or something. We had a lot of vandalism 1718 03:24:00,640 --> 03:24:06,479 issues. Uh you can see pictures down at the bottom. That was it. First couple 1719 03:24:04,880 --> 03:24:12,800 times we had it, it was it was thrown in the creek multiple times and 1720 03:24:08,560 --> 03:24:17,600 » why it up. I don't know. We had a we had a pretty nasty note left for us. So I 1721 03:24:15,520 --> 03:24:23,520 don't know why. I think a couple particular individuals did not enjoy our 1722 03:24:20,640 --> 03:24:28,399 monitoring no matter what we did. So we moved farther downstream um just a 1723 03:24:26,239 --> 03:24:35,279 little bit. It still has the same still capturing the same um impacts of Johnson 1724 03:24:30,800 --> 03:24:38,399 Gulch and the um the east the first package of Floyd Hill. Um 1725 03:24:37,040 --> 03:24:40,080 » so the upper picture is where you moved it to. 1726 03:24:38,800 --> 03:24:46,399 » The upper picture is where we moved it to and it's underneath the camera. Yeah. 1727 03:24:42,239 --> 03:24:50,479 Um it's also by the uh there's a the climbing 1728 03:24:48,239 --> 03:24:52,640 wall I didn't put on the map's back a little ways, but it's just down around 1729 03:24:51,520 --> 03:25:00,120 the bend. There's a there's a huge climbing uh trail and and face here. So 1730 03:24:56,160 --> 03:25:00,120 this is where a lot of climbers park 1731 03:25:00,160 --> 03:25:07,439 and that is the initial data. Uh it's up and running. Things seem to be working 1732 03:25:03,920 --> 03:25:13,200 well. Um so we'll continue to report out on that. Next slide. 1733 03:25:10,720 --> 03:25:20,640 And then here's your general um sorry George's question. Um 1734 03:25:16,640 --> 03:25:26,479 we have so now we now have five monitors throughout the watershed. Um, I only put 1735 03:25:24,080 --> 03:25:30,960 the three here that are around the project area just so you can kind of see 1736 03:25:28,319 --> 03:25:36,640 them. We are about to have a public dashboard which um, Aqua will um, it'll 1737 03:25:34,880 --> 03:25:41,200 be on Aqua's website and I'm sure we'll you all get a chance to take a look at 1738 03:25:38,880 --> 03:25:45,760 all that when it's up and running. Um, and it will be this information, this 1739 03:25:42,880 --> 03:25:51,120 data that'll be on that dashboard. Um and what you see here is 1740 03:25:48,880 --> 03:25:58,239 kind of our typical trends um as 1741 03:25:55,200 --> 03:26:01,600 um spring melt comes. Let's see if this is not set up in the right the way I 1742 03:25:59,840 --> 03:26:05,520 would like to present it. Let's see. It increases. So let's start with this. 1743 03:26:03,680 --> 03:26:11,600 This is kind of summer. It'll increase through the fall and the winter. It'll 1744 03:26:07,600 --> 03:26:15,840 peak around January, February, March. Depending on the winter, you'll have 1745 03:26:13,359 --> 03:26:20,399 some storm spikes and then as spring runoff occurs, you see it come back down 1746 03:26:18,479 --> 03:26:24,960 for the summer and then it kind of repeats. So, it's a 1747 03:26:23,439 --> 03:26:31,600 um [clears throat] kind of a sinosoidal data trap. 1748 03:26:28,720 --> 03:26:37,520 Um and so it'll be interesting to see these 1749 03:26:33,439 --> 03:26:42,080 peaks. um for this project it's about in in my our our strategy our mitigation 1750 03:26:39,359 --> 03:26:48,120 strategy was keeping the peaks um as low as possible. So one of the things we're 1751 03:26:44,080 --> 03:26:48,120 really watching for are the peaks 1752 03:26:48,319 --> 03:26:55,279 and like I said you guys can dig into this data when it becomes live on um 1753 03:26:53,520 --> 03:27:01,600 Aqua's website. Did you present you can 1754 03:26:58,800 --> 03:27:05,760 » we submitted data from from the proposed dashboard? Yeah. And I think another 1755 03:27:04,160 --> 03:27:10,000 thing to note with that too is that you'll be able to look back um to when 1756 03:27:08,319 --> 03:27:13,760 we started collecting data which will be useful. 1757 03:27:12,080 --> 03:27:17,120 » Right. This is the list. >> Oh, did you have a baseline before you 1758 03:27:15,600 --> 03:27:23,120 even started work >> for continuous data? We did. Um CC5 the 1759 03:27:21,040 --> 03:27:26,560 new station obviously we've only started collecting data in June but the other 1760 03:27:24,720 --> 03:27:30,200 four stations have been up for several years. 1761 03:27:27,200 --> 03:27:30,200 » Right. 1762 03:27:30,880 --> 03:27:36,720 And I think >> um okay so then I'll get to what I'm 1763 03:27:35,600 --> 03:27:39,920 trying to understand as I look at this data. 1764 03:27:38,239 --> 03:27:47,359 The the high end especially at CC1 1765 03:27:44,080 --> 03:27:51,760 clearly is above the long-term threshold for safety for aquatic life right which 1766 03:27:49,520 --> 03:27:58,640 is around 230. Um, 1767 03:27:54,720 --> 03:28:02,000 what I don't know is how what constitutes long-term versus 1768 03:28:00,080 --> 03:28:05,600 short-term. Short-term is 860, right? So, we're not ever hitting like short 1769 03:28:03,680 --> 03:28:11,359 term like we might have just killed all the fish in one hour. Um, how long do we 1770 03:28:09,200 --> 03:28:14,960 think these salinity levels are lasting? And and how does that compare to the 1771 03:28:13,040 --> 03:28:17,600 definition of a long-term >> measurement? 1772 03:28:16,319 --> 03:28:24,640 » So, that's the difference between acute and chronic standard. um 1773 03:28:20,960 --> 03:28:27,279 those so in I'm not sure which values you're 1774 03:28:26,000 --> 03:28:34,239 referencing. There's also there's so there's a 1988 EPA study um that had uh 1775 03:28:32,479 --> 03:28:38,080 mortality using fathead minnow which is to kind of a standard water quality 1776 03:28:36,560 --> 03:28:43,920 aquatic life indicator. So that's an indicator species study. Then there's 1777 03:28:40,399 --> 03:28:51,040 two Canadian um studies that in Canada they've put a little bit more um aquatic 1778 03:28:47,439 --> 03:28:56,080 require regulation in Colorado on our um streams. 1779 03:28:53,040 --> 03:29:04,000 Um and then there is the aesthetic safe drinking water act value. 1780 03:29:00,479 --> 03:29:09,600 So we have essentially right around 250 240 250 260 it's kind of your your 1781 03:29:07,359 --> 03:29:15,439 chronic and then the 860 is the acute one from this from the 1988 study. Um 1782 03:29:12,800 --> 03:29:23,520 those are in hours so I think it's 72 hours for the 1783 03:29:18,560 --> 03:29:26,800 acute and then it's um I'd have to go back and look. There's 1784 03:29:24,960 --> 03:29:33,200 one presentation I did where I had to find this for you all. Um but so far we 1785 03:29:30,560 --> 03:29:37,120 are not at we have never quite violated that the long-term values because what 1786 03:29:35,600 --> 03:29:42,239 these are these are spikes that go up for like an hour and they come back 1787 03:29:38,319 --> 03:29:47,120 down. Um CC1 is the the one that's no high so and sitting right next to the 1788 03:29:43,840 --> 03:29:53,680 tunnel. Um that one is um the one of most concern. Um we're 1789 03:29:51,920 --> 03:29:57,120 working with CPW as well. They're doing some they did some fish salinity 1790 03:29:55,439 --> 03:30:02,880 studies. I don't know if you've been involved um with any of that, but they 1791 03:30:00,960 --> 03:30:08,319 found that trout and a lot of aquatic species avoid the high salinity rather 1792 03:30:05,680 --> 03:30:13,120 than stay in it to to die essentially. >> Um but they're further investigating 1793 03:30:10,319 --> 03:30:17,520 species distributions. So, um 1794 03:30:14,880 --> 03:30:20,720 it gets pretty complicated pretty quickly. 1795 03:30:18,399 --> 03:30:23,520 » I appreciate you helping me. I know better how to interpret this data after 1796 03:30:22,399 --> 03:30:28,720 hearing you. So, thank you. >> Yeah. And I'm I'm I'm open for like a 1797 03:30:25,920 --> 03:30:33,359 more in detailed discussion um some some other time. 1798 03:30:31,600 --> 03:30:38,160 Anything to add? >> Oh, I don't think so. Um yeah, I mean I 1799 03:30:36,319 --> 03:30:43,359 think the main point is that we've just seen with um greater flow that they'll 1800 03:30:41,200 --> 03:30:48,160 hit it'll hit a spike after a storm event and then come right right back 1801 03:30:46,080 --> 03:30:54,160 relatively right back down. but definitely doesn't um stay above that uh 1802 03:30:51,520 --> 03:30:59,520 chronic or acute value for more than a full 24-hour period. Um which again 1803 03:30:57,680 --> 03:31:04,960 makes things complicated for us to mitigate, but um it's definitely a hot 1804 03:31:02,239 --> 03:31:09,840 topic and um we're always investigating new products we can use um application 1805 03:31:08,319 --> 03:31:15,920 rates and trying to get more information on that. So it's definitely a work in 1806 03:31:11,520 --> 03:31:21,120 progress, but this data helps. Um, not to correct the record here, but 1807 03:31:18,399 --> 03:31:25,359 offer on the EPA table for chloride for clic 1808 03:31:24,160 --> 03:31:26,800 is long-term exposure. >> Four days. 1809 03:31:25,840 --> 03:31:31,439 » Four days. >> Four day average concentration. 1810 03:31:28,720 --> 03:31:39,200 » Four day average concentration. And then the Canadian study is 1811 03:31:35,600 --> 03:31:44,599 seven. Yeah, seven days. So lower exposure threshold but longer time. 1812 03:31:42,560 --> 03:31:44,599 So, [clears throat] 1813 03:31:46,640 --> 03:31:56,160 » and I I know that uh Clear Creek has had its ups and downs. Um, in the mining 1814 03:31:53,520 --> 03:32:02,399 heyday, I mean, I heard stories of at one point Clear Creek was orange because 1815 03:31:58,399 --> 03:32:06,560 of all the mining runoff. So, um I I understand we're in a different position 1816 03:32:04,160 --> 03:32:11,600 now, which is good. But that that may I don't know if that 1817 03:32:08,960 --> 03:32:18,520 affects underlying death or not, but that's why I asked um you know about the 1818 03:32:14,640 --> 03:32:18,520 the long-term studies. 1819 03:32:19,120 --> 03:32:27,279 » I mean there's there's definitely a we've changed we used to use sediment or 1820 03:32:24,720 --> 03:32:33,439 sand and switching over to liquid deicer has changed things. Um 1821 03:32:30,560 --> 03:32:36,800 sand is also bad for aquatic life. Oh, I mean 1822 03:32:35,120 --> 03:32:43,120 » um and yeah, we're still understanding more about how changing products can 1823 03:32:39,359 --> 03:32:47,840 impact the level in the creek. >> And the liquid deicers, that's still the 1824 03:32:45,600 --> 03:32:50,560 um I forgot the term for it began with an M. The the 1825 03:32:49,279 --> 03:32:54,239 » magnesium chloride. >> Yeah, that's one that's not toxic but is 1826 03:32:53,200 --> 03:32:58,720 really salty. >> Yeah, it's it's essentially rock salt. 1827 03:32:56,479 --> 03:33:02,720 Like sodium chloride is table salt. Magnesium chloride is just a different 1828 03:33:00,239 --> 03:33:08,720 salt. Um, and of course with these liquid deicers, there's some proprietary 1829 03:33:06,640 --> 03:33:12,880 information or ingredients that they'll put in in addition to the salt, um, to 1830 03:33:11,120 --> 03:33:19,840 make it more or less effective at certain temperatures. Um, so C dot uses 1831 03:33:16,239 --> 03:33:24,640 a variety of different products, meaning a variety of different concentrations 1832 03:33:21,439 --> 03:33:29,680 and and types. Um, but yeah, it's definitely something we're we're 1833 03:33:26,000 --> 03:33:33,359 learning more about. Mhm. >> If you would uh there's a organization 1834 03:33:31,520 --> 03:33:38,160 called Clear Roads and I do a lot of research on on this topic. This is a 1835 03:33:35,760 --> 03:33:42,960 national issue. Um >> and so you can uh find out a lot of 1836 03:33:40,720 --> 03:33:47,760 information. Um SE dot's a member of that organization and our maintenance 1837 03:33:45,120 --> 03:33:52,800 superintendents are all um heavily participated and invested in that. 1838 03:33:49,520 --> 03:33:56,960 » I'm sorry you inspired another question. >> How do we compare? 1839 03:33:54,960 --> 03:34:02,239 This is a national issue. uh do these concentrations look higher than other 1840 03:33:59,279 --> 03:34:07,200 portions of the in transportation system? I think problem is lack of data. 1841 03:34:04,960 --> 03:34:12,000 Um like because there's no EPA requirement there's I don't know if 1842 03:34:09,680 --> 03:34:15,040 you've seen comparable data but >> yeah I would say 1843 03:34:13,200 --> 03:34:20,399 » it's hard to find >> um it's a similar issue the we have um 1844 03:34:18,880 --> 03:34:27,040 we have a very unique issue. This is the highest interstate um and so um that CC1 1845 03:34:25,040 --> 03:34:34,000 is going to be higher than than most of the national trends down here. Um 1846 03:34:30,720 --> 03:34:40,800 uh it's it's a little bit lower. So we we've um worked a lot with FHWA, USGS. 1847 03:34:37,600 --> 03:34:45,279 Um they have a winter maintenance um kind of program. Um a lot of it's 1848 03:34:42,960 --> 03:34:51,520 centered on the east coast. A lot of studies are coming out. The them Oregon 1849 03:34:49,600 --> 03:34:56,720 mountain passes in Oregon are the ones that are most applicable to us. Um 1850 03:34:55,040 --> 03:35:03,600 » but uh there's an opportunity for this to kind of be like a leading edge of 1851 03:35:00,160 --> 03:35:03,600 some interesting stuff. 1852 03:35:04,720 --> 03:35:09,840 I think I think the other major difference too is like we just don't 1853 03:35:07,520 --> 03:35:14,239 thaw here, right? In other states, they apply the product and then you get sun 1854 03:35:12,239 --> 03:35:18,239 in the afternoon and it melts it and the temperature rises. Here we, you know, 1855 03:35:16,560 --> 03:35:22,000 it's it's harder to keep the roads clear. But 1856 03:35:19,760 --> 03:35:27,359 » even with all of our sun, >> I I think the elevation and extreme 1857 03:35:24,960 --> 03:35:32,520 weather definitely plays a role in us having to use product. So, 1858 03:35:34,960 --> 03:35:39,840 » all right. Thank you. Turn over to Piper to 1859 03:35:38,479 --> 03:35:42,560 » Sure. Thank Thanks for running the slides, too, Kurt. 1860 03:35:41,359 --> 03:35:45,760 » No, you can you can hold them. That's it. If that's all right. Yep. 1861 03:35:43,760 --> 03:35:50,000 » Um well, appreciate the opportunity to be here. Um commissioners again you know 1862 03:35:48,080 --> 03:35:54,960 similar to Kurt we're following a similar timeline but obviously we have 1863 03:35:51,840 --> 03:35:59,279 been engaging um with a project leadership team through the CSS process 1864 03:35:56,960 --> 03:36:04,319 to you know secure some additional hours and days. Um we were really successful 1865 03:36:01,920 --> 03:36:08,000 in working with through the CSS process with county staff to come up with a 1866 03:36:06,080 --> 03:36:12,080 really creative solution where we have a a kind of a flexible pod of hours and 1867 03:36:09,840 --> 03:36:17,200 days that we're able to use as needed. And you know, as you can see up there, 1868 03:36:13,439 --> 03:36:21,279 we did present to um this body back in May on sort of the outcome of that when 1869 03:36:19,439 --> 03:36:24,720 our permit was approved sort of authorizing, you know, the expansion of 1870 03:36:23,279 --> 03:36:28,720 fixed hours and days and then some flexible hours and days. So, you know, 1871 03:36:27,040 --> 03:36:32,640 since then, you know, we have been obviously working with S DOT and the 1872 03:36:31,040 --> 03:36:36,720 county. We participated in that same meeting that Kurt mentioned. Our 1873 03:36:34,640 --> 03:36:40,399 operations manager came and presented some reporting on how the mexels are, 1874 03:36:38,479 --> 03:36:46,160 you know, operating trends that we're seeing. Um and again here we are um on 1875 03:36:43,040 --> 03:36:50,560 September 1st, 2026. So similar timeline but with a little bit more history 1876 03:36:47,600 --> 03:36:55,439 certainly on um the hours and days and that permit process and where these kind 1877 03:36:52,880 --> 03:37:00,160 of uh requirements and stipulations um emerged from. Abby, did you want to 1878 03:36:58,399 --> 03:37:03,760 highlight anything on the notes there? I mean I think they're sort of similar 1879 03:37:01,359 --> 03:37:07,600 comments from the C do permit timeline. >> I don't think so. Just Yeah, similar 1880 03:37:05,920 --> 03:37:12,560 similar. We don't have much to compare to. Um and again just waiting for some 1881 03:37:10,720 --> 03:37:17,439 changes to be finalized before we move forward with some of the uh reporting 1882 03:37:14,640 --> 03:37:20,479 that we've committed to. Okay. So certainly a lot of partnership with 1883 03:37:18,800 --> 03:37:24,239 Abby. She's really helping us to make sure that you know this is all standard. 1884 03:37:22,960 --> 03:37:28,319 She's helping us with a lot of those environmental requirements. So certainly 1885 03:37:26,000 --> 03:37:31,920 a lot of collaboration between um the teams there. 1886 03:37:29,279 --> 03:37:36,880 » Okay, great. So So between your staff and our staff, we've resolved the 1041 1887 03:37:34,319 --> 03:37:38,880 questions. I think um 1888 03:37:38,319 --> 03:37:42,479 » session. >> Yeah, the main thing we're waiting on is 1889 03:37:40,399 --> 03:37:47,120 just having something in writing to so we can finalize some of um like the 1890 03:37:45,439 --> 03:37:51,520 purchase of the air quality monitors isn't specifically in the permit. Um and 1891 03:37:49,760 --> 03:37:56,880 just before we spend that money, we want to have it memorialized in some way. And 1892 03:37:53,920 --> 03:38:01,200 I know um we got the letters back from Garrett and Colton kind of memorializing 1893 03:37:58,880 --> 03:38:05,200 that. I just haven't had time to get a signature on my end. So, we're just 1894 03:38:03,279 --> 03:38:11,359 trying to work on finalizing that. >> Okay. Thank you. Yeah, next slide. 1895 03:38:08,960 --> 03:38:15,439 » So, again, you know, similar reports that we're required to provide. Um, we 1896 03:38:13,600 --> 03:38:18,560 are not going to go into kind of the same level of depth that Abby did for 1897 03:38:17,040 --> 03:38:24,479 the C dot permit. We're really going to focus specifically on signage and 1898 03:38:21,520 --> 03:38:28,080 communications related to the, you know, express lane and the the Floyd Hill 1899 03:38:26,800 --> 03:38:31,920 Express lane that's currently being constructed. But just to recognize that 1900 03:38:29,680 --> 03:38:36,239 we've obviously been working with Abby and you know the same team on some of 1901 03:38:34,479 --> 03:38:41,680 the similar requirements that we have in our permit for the operating hours and 1902 03:38:38,399 --> 03:38:49,359 days for the Mountain Express Lane. >> Oo to that point. Um 1903 03:38:46,560 --> 03:38:54,479 this is my commute. I'm I represent east or the uh east end of the county west 1904 03:38:52,319 --> 03:39:02,399 evergreen and so I commute from there to here. So I know Floyd Hill very well. 1905 03:38:57,279 --> 03:39:08,800 fascinating changes. Um, but people are used to speeding along I7. 1906 03:39:05,439 --> 03:39:13,760 And although you have all of the 45 mph signs and you have construction 1907 03:39:10,960 --> 03:39:20,960 equipment everywhere, is it possible to get a sign that says 1908 03:39:17,439 --> 03:39:26,640 lanes narrow? Because people are acting like they're on I25 with, you know, 1909 03:39:23,600 --> 03:39:31,920 shoulders and everything else. And this won't help all the speeders, but it 1910 03:39:29,120 --> 03:39:37,120 might make some people go, "Oh, there's a reason." Not just construction safety, 1911 03:39:35,040 --> 03:39:41,120 but the fact that these lanes are narrower than they're used to, and 1912 03:39:39,040 --> 03:39:44,080 perhaps they should slow down. >> That's great feedback. Thank you, 1913 03:39:42,560 --> 03:39:46,880 Commissioner. We should have narrow lane signs out there. Now, you're making me 1914 03:39:45,600 --> 03:39:49,520 question. I got to go out and double check that they're 1915 03:39:47,520 --> 03:39:51,840 » Thank you. No, I have not seen them. >> Okay. They should be as you come down 1916 03:39:51,040 --> 03:39:54,160 the hill. >> Yeah. 1917 03:39:52,319 --> 03:39:59,120 » Got to I got to go verify they're up. >> Okay. Thank you. and I will I will look 1918 03:39:56,800 --> 03:40:03,359 more closely, but I I've actually been asking for this, Abby knows, for for 1919 03:40:01,200 --> 03:40:07,279 about a year now. So, thank you. >> Good. Thanks for playing. 1920 03:40:05,359 --> 03:40:10,960 » Um Abby, do you want to cover this one? >> Sure. Yeah, I would I could just talk a 1921 03:40:09,040 --> 03:40:15,200 little bit about um the air quality monitors that we're proposing. Um I can 1922 03:40:13,680 --> 03:40:20,319 talk specifically about what they're capable of measuring if you're 1923 03:40:16,720 --> 03:40:24,000 interested. Um, but we did get one um question about whether or not these 1924 03:40:21,840 --> 03:40:30,640 would be tied into the Floyd Hill dashboard and they will not be um a we 1925 03:40:27,840 --> 03:40:34,000 cannot put them on the same system and uh dashboard as Floyd Hill. However, we 1926 03:40:32,880 --> 03:40:38,720 want to make sure that you have full access to the data. Um so definitely 1927 03:40:36,880 --> 03:40:45,279 willing to have you be the owners of that. Um and also open to talking about 1928 03:40:42,319 --> 03:40:49,439 locations. Um because the original air quality monitors were in the same 1929 03:40:46,800 --> 03:40:53,279 locations, well there was three. One was at the Dumont Firehouse, one was on top 1930 03:40:51,520 --> 03:40:57,439 of the Idaho Springs Health and Wellness Center, which is the same location as 1931 03:40:55,359 --> 03:41:00,800 one of the Floyd Hill monitors, and the third was at the Floyd Hill Firehouse, 1932 03:40:59,200 --> 03:41:05,760 which is the same location as the other Floyd Hill monitor. So you essentially 1933 03:41:02,640 --> 03:41:09,279 will have two monitors um where you can place anywhere you're interested in the 1934 03:41:07,760 --> 03:41:14,080 corridor and learning more about air quality. Um, and I previously said that 1935 03:41:12,160 --> 03:41:19,120 we needed a power supply and I looked into it. They are solar powered, so that 1936 03:41:16,479 --> 03:41:23,600 kind of opens up opportunities. Um, our air quality specialist did provide a 1937 03:41:20,960 --> 03:41:26,479 couple of um, recommended locations, but again, we're willing to work with you on 1938 03:41:24,960 --> 03:41:33,120 that and help you get those up and running. 1939 03:41:28,640 --> 03:41:35,600 » Thanks, Abby. U, next slide, Kurt. >> Next slide. 1940 03:41:35,279 --> 03:41:40,080 On >> on air quality before we get to Sure. I 1941 03:41:38,399 --> 03:41:43,120 think we're gonna We're getting into the conditions on the 1942 03:41:42,160 --> 03:41:47,600 other resolution. >> We'll need to read into the next agenda 1943 03:41:44,960 --> 03:41:52,359 item when we get to section. >> Um on air quality 1944 03:41:53,359 --> 03:41:56,359 » um 1945 03:41:57,279 --> 03:42:01,680 are you still measuring gaseous pollutants? 1946 03:42:00,080 --> 03:42:06,239 » We are not. But these are capable of measuring gaseous pollutants. Um should 1947 03:42:04,399 --> 03:42:12,640 be noted though they're not regulatory grade. Um, so again, can't be used, um, 1948 03:42:10,640 --> 03:42:16,640 to help with any, you know, work with the EPA or non-attainment, but it will 1949 03:42:14,800 --> 03:42:21,359 give you an idea of air quality in the in the area. Um, if you were to get a 1950 03:42:19,439 --> 03:42:25,359 regulatory grade monitor, it would be significantly more expensive. Um, but 1951 03:42:23,760 --> 03:42:30,399 this should provide baseline data for you on gas. And again, um, the Floyd 1952 03:42:28,399 --> 03:42:34,880 Hill monitors will collect gaseous pollutants six months after construction 1953 03:42:33,200 --> 03:42:38,080 as well, so you could compare that information. 1954 03:42:36,560 --> 03:42:43,600 And then I think I I have a similar question. I'm not I think it might 1955 03:42:39,760 --> 03:42:48,080 actually be the other 1041, but um air quality monitors, these three are going 1956 03:42:46,080 --> 03:42:53,279 to go further west. That's is that >> they can go wherever you want them to 1957 03:42:50,399 --> 03:42:57,680 go. Um and again, they're solar powered, so there's some more flexibility there. 1958 03:42:55,120 --> 03:43:02,239 I again, I think like the west end of Idaho Springs would probably be a good 1959 03:42:59,439 --> 03:43:06,479 location. Um, I also, you know, thought about like Clar Creek County High School 1960 03:43:04,239 --> 03:43:11,439 or something like that, but um, yeah, it's up to you where you want to place 1961 03:43:08,080 --> 03:43:15,600 them. Um, we could place one of them at the Dumont Fire Station, which would 1962 03:43:13,199 --> 03:43:19,120 give us comparable um, data to what we were collecting before. Um, but since 1963 03:43:17,680 --> 03:43:25,080 there's already monitors at those other two locations, I would recommend putting 1964 03:43:20,800 --> 03:43:25,080 the two in somewhere else. 1965 03:43:26,160 --> 03:43:29,600 » Okay, I think that's I think that's good for now. 1966 03:43:28,080 --> 03:43:34,000 » Yeah. And one more thing to note on these monitors too. They don't require 1967 03:43:31,359 --> 03:43:38,000 calibration. That was a problem with the um other monitors that we had out that 1968 03:43:35,680 --> 03:43:43,199 were became defunct um you know without regular maintenance and calibration and 1969 03:43:39,920 --> 03:43:47,040 filter changes they became obsolete. But these are um much more you know leave it 1970 03:43:45,520 --> 03:43:53,040 stick it out and forget it which I think will be uh e easier to use and uh will 1971 03:43:50,479 --> 03:43:56,560 provide better data long term. >> Is that what happened to the previous 1972 03:43:54,720 --> 03:44:01,439 ones? The calibration problem. >> Yeah. Yeah. We just we didn't have a 1973 03:43:58,720 --> 03:44:05,760 contract with the uh consultant that was keeping those maintained anymore. And 1974 03:44:03,359 --> 03:44:09,680 after I don't know I don't can't remember the last year data I provided 1975 03:44:07,439 --> 03:44:12,800 maybe 2020 that's about the time that they started to fall off. 1976 03:44:11,600 --> 03:44:17,199 » Okay. >> And we'll work through that with them. I 1977 03:44:14,479 --> 03:44:20,720 mean, yeah, these these are like kind of Toyota Camry's like they're not they 1978 03:44:19,439 --> 03:44:24,160 just don't take a lot of maintenance, which is good because the bigger and the 1979 03:44:22,239 --> 03:44:28,080 more regulatory grid ones can take up to daily maintenance and it's colossally 1980 03:44:26,239 --> 03:44:31,040 expensive and if you miss any of that then it's no good and you have to throw 1981 03:44:29,600 --> 03:44:34,319 out all the data. >> So, this one I think is a good baseline 1982 03:44:32,720 --> 03:44:38,319 that we can hopefully sustain over the long term because that's what we're 1983 03:44:35,680 --> 03:44:40,960 trying to see is like long-term change especially if we start getting 1984 03:44:39,359 --> 03:44:45,120 significantly more traffic through the canyon because of the Flint Hill 1985 03:44:42,399 --> 03:44:48,479 project, right? If we If we start having maintenance issues, then we're going to 1986 03:44:46,880 --> 03:44:53,680 it's going to be very difficult to make a coherent case to anyone who's educated 1987 03:44:50,479 --> 03:44:57,040 on this stuff to to like really take it seriously if we're not on top of 1988 03:44:55,199 --> 03:45:00,080 maintenance. And these are these are amazing. And 1989 03:44:58,319 --> 03:45:06,880 » even even the Floyd Hill monitors you have now, they're out there monthly 1990 03:45:02,880 --> 03:45:10,160 » calibrating and filter changes and >> yeah, [clears throat] it's so 1991 03:45:08,000 --> 03:45:14,239 » well and I like the idea of at the firehouse at the Dumont firehouse too 1992 03:45:12,080 --> 03:45:17,920 because once that gets opened up and all that moves into that area what's 1993 03:45:17,040 --> 03:45:20,239 changing >> absolutely 1994 03:45:18,640 --> 03:45:24,239 » getting worse. Sure. >> Yeah, 1995 03:45:21,279 --> 03:45:27,680 » these take some maintenance. Um, but we'll work that out with them. But 1996 03:45:25,680 --> 03:45:33,040 that's much it's in it's measured like six months, not every month or every day 1997 03:45:29,600 --> 03:45:37,760 or every week or >> the last thing I wanted to ask about is 1998 03:45:34,560 --> 03:45:43,439 is the the alert system. >> Um, you're stating that construction 1999 03:45:40,960 --> 03:45:47,680 activity was ruled out as a cause of alerts. Is there a way that we can take 2000 03:45:45,760 --> 03:45:53,760 a look at at how you're arriving at those conclusions? Yeah, we have um some 2001 03:45:51,680 --> 03:45:57,600 an the analysis that the consultant that's doing that provides to us in the 2002 03:45:55,840 --> 03:46:04,080 report. Um but again, that's only for the Floyd Hill project um because that's 2003 03:45:59,920 --> 03:46:10,239 required by the state statute. Um I I mean to to date it's been 2004 03:46:07,120 --> 03:46:14,560 there's poor uh air quality because of wildfire smoke and it's been quite 2005 03:46:11,920 --> 03:46:19,680 obvious but they do um they are required to submit um a report of what was what 2006 03:46:18,160 --> 03:46:23,199 construction was happening that day around the time of the air quality alert 2007 03:46:21,520 --> 03:46:26,319 and yeah we're happy to share that information with you. 2008 03:46:24,239 --> 03:46:29,319 » Thank you. That's all on air quality for me. 2009 03:46:30,080 --> 03:46:33,680 So, chair, if you could read in Joanne has something to say. 2010 03:46:32,960 --> 03:46:38,666 » Sorry. >> Okay, Joanne, you'll have to come up 2011 03:46:35,120 --> 03:46:38,666 here by the microphones. [clears throat] 2012 03:46:45,760 --> 03:46:49,000 » Thanks, Garrett. 2013 03:46:51,120 --> 03:46:57,199 » Hello, everybody. [laughter] I've been listening and I've I've been 2014 03:46:55,040 --> 03:47:02,640 following your presentation and I think that this Floyd Hill project is is doing 2015 03:47:00,800 --> 03:47:09,279 what it's supposed to do and the reports are giving you the information that we 2016 03:47:06,239 --> 03:47:14,560 intended when we started all this that you would have. But I do have a couple 2017 03:47:11,199 --> 03:47:22,960 of questions about the data uh that was in the report. And the first one I had 2018 03:47:17,920 --> 03:47:30,800 regards the uh traffic counts. And these traffic counts appear to be done on the 2019 03:47:26,160 --> 03:47:37,600 heavy westbound days, right? When people are heading up for the holidays, 2020 03:47:33,760 --> 03:47:45,840 right? Friday, Friday, Friday, Thursday, Friday. So, as someone who lives here, 2021 03:47:42,399 --> 03:47:51,199 the westbound traffic for the holidays is starting to spread out. I think that 2022 03:47:48,560 --> 03:47:58,640 Thursdays are becoming interesting days as well. But probably the most intense 2023 03:47:54,800 --> 03:48:03,439 days happen when people are coming back when that Monday or that Sunday 2024 03:48:01,279 --> 03:48:11,760 afternoon or evening. So, do you have data that you can show on on the return 2025 03:48:07,359 --> 03:48:18,880 days? Because I'm I'm kind of inclined to think traffic is heavier on any given 2026 03:48:14,880 --> 03:48:22,960 return day than it is on the Fridays before they head out. So, if that could 2027 03:48:21,040 --> 03:48:28,319 be provided, I think it would help us understand the impacts in Clear Creek 2028 03:48:25,840 --> 03:48:33,439 County as well. So, that's that's my first comment. I can absolutely I can 2029 03:48:31,040 --> 03:48:36,080 provide you with the link. This data is public 2030 03:48:34,479 --> 03:48:38,800 » and I can provide you with the link and the station number and you can go in and 2031 03:48:37,600 --> 03:48:40,720 you can pull data from >> Yeah. 2032 03:48:39,199 --> 03:48:41,840 » any day >> of the year. 2033 03:48:41,439 --> 03:48:46,960 » Yep. >> Or email that to you. 2034 03:48:42,800 --> 03:48:51,520 » Yep. Okay. Thanks. Um then the next question I have relates to the uh crash 2035 03:48:49,520 --> 03:48:55,359 data. The 20 25 crash. >> Sorry to interrupt you. I I appreciate 2036 03:48:53,439 --> 03:48:59,120 that as a now solution. Maybe for the next presentation you can include 2037 03:48:57,040 --> 03:49:01,359 Fridays and Sundays. Okay. 2038 03:48:59,840 --> 03:49:04,319 » Yeah. Instead of instead of you searching for it. 2039 03:49:02,319 --> 03:49:07,520 » I mean, if you if for this time, I'm fine with that as a response, but moving 2040 03:49:06,000 --> 03:49:10,880 forward, let's definitely practice this, too. It's a really great point. 2041 03:49:08,560 --> 03:49:15,600 » Okay. Do you do you agree, Ponies? >> Yeah, I definitely changing. Mondays are 2042 03:49:13,680 --> 03:49:20,960 getting pretty tough these days because I think we're seeing traffic spreading, 2043 03:49:18,239 --> 03:49:24,800 which probably is a good thing. Um, but anyway, um, 2044 03:49:22,160 --> 03:49:29,840 » so can I ask one question? Thank you. So, you you mentioned Thursdays. So the 2045 03:49:27,040 --> 03:49:35,359 next year report, just so we're clear, do the the Fridays that we identified in 2046 03:49:32,720 --> 03:49:38,399 our meeting and then do Sundays and then you said Thursdays too or just Friday, 2047 03:49:37,920 --> 03:49:41,120 Sunday? >> We're starting to see Thursday heavy I 2048 03:49:40,720 --> 03:49:43,279 think. >> Yeah, 2049 03:49:41,600 --> 03:49:48,319 » as I heard what what I heard from your your comment is that Sundays like 2050 03:49:46,080 --> 03:49:52,000 understanding eastbound traffic surges is is the missing piece. Not so much 2051 03:49:50,640 --> 03:49:56,239 what's happening on Thursday, >> the heavy return traffic to the metro 2052 03:49:54,000 --> 03:49:59,279 area. So that might be on some Mondays, too. 2053 03:49:56,720 --> 03:50:01,680 » Yeah. Yeah. Sundays and Mondays >> like like you know on a third three-day 2054 03:50:00,960 --> 03:50:05,600 weekend. >> Yeah. If I could articulate a little I 2055 03:50:03,439 --> 03:50:09,840 think what we see a lot of traffic jams on Friday 2056 03:50:08,479 --> 03:50:14,880 because we have the Floyd Hill bottleneck right existing right now with 2057 03:50:12,479 --> 03:50:18,479 the two lane situation. the eastbound we might see 2058 03:50:16,640 --> 03:50:21,520 it's like a heavier average car count throughout the entire day because all 2059 03:50:20,000 --> 03:50:25,359 three lanes are generally operating because the bottleneck is in Dylan and 2060 03:50:23,680 --> 03:50:30,960 not here right [laughter] and so um I think just understanding 2061 03:50:28,239 --> 03:50:35,439 that that flow right just someone who people who live and experience here like 2062 03:50:32,720 --> 03:50:38,479 those Sundays it's all day right whereas Friday it's a little like this surge and 2063 03:50:37,120 --> 03:50:42,960 drop kind of >> well and and also there's so many people 2064 03:50:40,239 --> 03:50:46,160 have a four day week so they might leave Thursday But then there are people with 2065 03:50:44,239 --> 03:50:50,640 a five day week, so they leave Friday, but they all have to be at work on 2066 03:50:48,399 --> 03:50:54,000 Monday. So that's why we particularly get hit on Sundays. 2067 03:50:52,080 --> 03:50:57,120 » Okay, happy to do that. >> Can we just note that on our methodology 2068 03:50:55,760 --> 03:51:00,319 letters? >> Yeah, to add 2069 03:50:58,239 --> 03:51:03,920 » just Yeah, >> thanks. Thank you. Thank you. 2070 03:51:02,160 --> 03:51:06,560 » And the Thursday. >> Yeah. Yeah. 2071 03:51:04,960 --> 03:51:09,560 » Thank you. >> Thursday. 2072 03:51:09,920 --> 03:51:20,880 » Okay. So then the crash data, um, I can I understand Colorado State Patrol is a 2073 03:51:17,520 --> 03:51:27,840 major source of data for crashes, um, and the Idaho Springs Police, 2074 03:51:23,680 --> 03:51:35,040 but when we started all this, we were relying on data that would be collected 2075 03:51:31,120 --> 03:51:38,960 um, through our dispatch system. And so you that's I think a piece that you're 2076 03:51:36,960 --> 03:51:43,920 missing when you're saying that you're not getting stuff from the sheriff and 2077 03:51:41,199 --> 03:51:46,560 » we dispatched and they said that that was too big of an effort for them to 2078 03:51:45,439 --> 03:51:51,439 provide to us. >> Oh really? But 2079 03:51:48,160 --> 03:51:56,479 » and I don't think they had all the data. >> But but there was also a change in 2080 03:51:53,680 --> 03:52:02,560 dispatch, right? We used to have Clear Creek County Sheriff doing the dispatch 2081 03:51:59,359 --> 03:52:07,760 and maybe they were having trouble, you know, getting granular on the data, 2082 03:52:04,880 --> 03:52:10,080 but now we have Jeffcom, right? Did >> we reached out to Jeff? 2083 03:52:08,960 --> 03:52:13,920 » Is that right? >> We can we got the data. We worked it out 2084 03:52:12,160 --> 03:52:17,520 with the team. We can get the granular data from JeffcomCom. What we need them 2085 03:52:15,520 --> 03:52:23,199 for is state patrol because we can't get that right. So state patrol and 2086 03:52:21,359 --> 03:52:26,479 um um 2087 03:52:25,520 --> 03:52:27,920 » springs >> um 2088 03:52:26,800 --> 03:52:33,359 » and fire maybe. >> No. Um this um 2089 03:52:31,439 --> 03:52:38,479 gosh people that help on the accidents that aren't cops. Uh safety patrol. That 2090 03:52:36,880 --> 03:52:42,720 was the other missing piece that I think we've worked out among staff about what 2091 03:52:40,319 --> 03:52:46,560 data is actually we can actually get and we'll get the job comp data. We can ask 2092 03:52:44,880 --> 03:52:49,359 Jeffcom for that granular data. They push back if someone else does because 2093 03:52:48,160 --> 03:52:52,399 they're not paying, >> right? So, we've been asking, we we can 2094 03:52:51,040 --> 03:52:55,920 get that easily and we've been getting that. So, 2095 03:52:53,840 --> 03:53:01,359 » okay, because I have to tell you, I went to the C3 event on Saturday and I 2096 03:52:58,960 --> 03:53:05,199 chatted with the Jeffcom people and they were just so delightful and they said, 2097 03:53:03,520 --> 03:53:09,120 "We can get you anything you want to know." [laughter] 2098 03:53:07,439 --> 03:53:13,920 » So, I, you know, I would urge you to make sure we get Jeff come in on the 2099 03:53:11,920 --> 03:53:17,840 whole deal. So, it sounds like Joanne, you need to coordinate with Colton to 2100 03:53:15,840 --> 03:53:23,239 get that information. >> Okay. Thank you. Let's see. I think 2101 03:53:19,600 --> 03:53:23,239 there's one more. 2102 03:53:25,680 --> 03:53:34,319 Oh, okay. No. Uh, the noise monitoring and the, uh, water quality stuff. Um, I 2103 03:53:32,160 --> 03:53:40,399 realize we're talking about the Floyd Hill project right now. Um, but there is 2104 03:53:36,960 --> 03:53:45,840 a lot of data on water quality that is historic. And if you want to see trends, 2105 03:53:43,359 --> 03:53:51,680 um I think inviting the Upper Clear Creek Wershed Association to participate 2106 03:53:49,120 --> 03:53:56,640 and and talk with you about data if if that's where you want to see some 2107 03:53:54,000 --> 03:54:02,160 historic stuff would be a good idea. And I know that C do participates with Aqua. 2108 03:53:59,840 --> 03:54:07,760 And I know that the data from 20 years ago isn't necessarily 2109 03:54:04,720 --> 03:54:14,239 uh relevant to what you're talking about here today at this very report, but I 2110 03:54:11,840 --> 03:54:21,760 think that you will find interesting trends that are worth tracking if you 2111 03:54:17,520 --> 03:54:25,199 work with Aqua as well. Um yeah, >> it is relevant, right? because 2112 03:54:23,680 --> 03:54:29,199 ultimately this board has a decision about the long-term operations of the 2113 03:54:27,279 --> 03:54:30,479 PBSL to make and so it is very very relevant. Thank you for pointing that 2114 03:54:30,239 --> 03:54:36,239 out. >> Yeah. 2115 03:54:31,359 --> 03:54:40,720 » Yep. And then let's see. Oh okay. Oh, in addition about the water 2116 03:54:38,720 --> 03:54:47,120 quality, I think it's going to be really important regarding the the salinity 2117 03:54:45,439 --> 03:54:53,040 data once everything is in operation and 2118 03:54:49,359 --> 03:54:59,920 everything is I don't know if you are hearing people marvel at what we will be 2119 03:54:56,399 --> 03:55:04,479 seeing as we come down Floyd Hill, approach Floyd Hill from the west. But 2120 03:55:02,239 --> 03:55:09,920 people are marveling and they're saying we're going to have traffic way up there 2121 03:55:07,120 --> 03:55:14,399 and it'll be up there in the wintertime and who knows what climate change is 2122 03:55:13,040 --> 03:55:19,840 going to do. I mean, are we going to have absolutely no problem with highways 2123 03:55:17,120 --> 03:55:25,359 icing in the future? Or are we going to have continuing and more intense 2124 03:55:22,239 --> 03:55:30,880 problems with highways icing? And so tracking the chlorides and tracking the 2125 03:55:28,720 --> 03:55:36,960 deicing stuff I think is going to be important especially once we are in 2126 03:55:33,840 --> 03:55:42,399 operation. And I know that the design has accounted for 2127 03:55:39,600 --> 03:55:47,279 drainage and and finding ways to make sure that the drainage that's coming off 2128 03:55:44,720 --> 03:55:52,160 of these structures has a place to go before it goes directly into the creek. 2129 03:55:49,680 --> 03:55:58,000 And hopefully we won't be having a terrific impact with salinity in the 2130 03:55:55,040 --> 03:56:02,080 creek once everything's in operation and all of the drainage structures are 2131 03:55:59,840 --> 03:56:06,239 working. But I think continuing to pay attention to that is going to be 2132 03:56:03,840 --> 03:56:11,439 critical for uh people who care about the creek. So those are my comments. 2133 03:56:09,439 --> 03:56:15,880 Thanks. I think the presentation was great. 2134 03:56:12,640 --> 03:56:15,880 » Thank you. 2135 03:56:16,560 --> 03:56:21,439 » Thank you Joanne. So are we moving on to the next work 2136 03:56:20,560 --> 03:56:26,080 session? >> Yes. 2137 03:56:22,720 --> 03:56:30,800 » Uh everyone gets to stay. Um this is a work session presentation 2138 03:56:28,560 --> 03:56:36,800 and discussion of C dot requirements for condition 9 of R25-46 2139 03:56:34,800 --> 03:56:45,439 for areas and activities of state interest case number SI 2025-00001 2140 03:56:42,239 --> 03:56:49,840 peak period shoulder lane operations. Thank you. 2141 03:56:47,040 --> 03:56:54,560 Thank you, Commissioner Lloyd. So, first I want to start by saying I really 2142 03:56:51,439 --> 03:56:59,199 appreciate all of the engagement from the board, but specifically staff. We've 2143 03:56:56,560 --> 03:57:03,279 had a lot of good conversations um you know, since the permit was approved, you 2144 03:57:01,680 --> 03:57:07,600 know, a little over, you know, a year ago. And really, I think out of those 2145 03:57:05,600 --> 03:57:12,160 conversations, I think we both recognize there are so many we are there are so 2146 03:57:09,920 --> 03:57:17,439 many areas for collaboration. You know, I think we all agree that safety is 2147 03:57:15,359 --> 03:57:20,560 designing and operating a safe project, right? When Floyd Hill opens, how is 2148 03:57:19,120 --> 03:57:24,720 that going to function with the existing express lanes that are there? You know, 2149 03:57:22,720 --> 03:57:28,720 obviously, we're already sharing data resources. Obviously, we've talked a lot 2150 03:57:26,720 --> 03:57:32,479 about data that the Floyd Hill team is bringing, but CTIO has a wealth of data 2151 03:57:31,120 --> 03:57:35,040 that we are generating from those express lanes and our express lane 2152 03:57:33,840 --> 03:57:39,359 equipment, and we've been sharing that with staff. So I think really just a 2153 03:57:37,199 --> 03:57:43,520 recognition that you know we are also focused on collecting similar data to to 2154 03:57:41,840 --> 03:57:47,680 evaluate how those express lanes are operating. So really a commitment to 2155 03:57:46,000 --> 03:57:52,560 transparently sharing information that we have with you all so you can use that 2156 03:57:50,000 --> 03:57:57,760 for decision- making. Um and a really just an emphasis that we're we both have 2157 03:57:55,439 --> 03:58:01,920 the same view that we want to educate the public on how to use the facility 2158 03:57:59,600 --> 03:58:05,840 safely. How does signage play into that? How does communications play into that? 2159 03:58:04,399 --> 03:58:09,520 How are we going to make sure that drivers, you know, know what to expect, 2160 03:58:07,920 --> 03:58:12,960 especially out of state drivers or tourists that are here to ski in the 2161 03:58:11,040 --> 03:58:17,439 winter time, hopefully with better this year. Um, but you know, our express 2162 03:58:15,840 --> 03:58:20,720 lanes actually see higher traffic in the summer. So, how are we going to educate 2163 03:58:19,120 --> 03:58:24,239 drivers? Making sure they know what to expect, right? Once the Floyd Hill 2164 03:58:22,319 --> 03:58:27,199 facility is open, how is it going to connect with the existing express lanes 2165 03:58:25,840 --> 03:58:31,520 that are already there and operating? So, I think we realize there's a lot of 2166 03:58:29,279 --> 03:58:36,080 areas for just shared continued collaboration. we are really on the same 2167 03:58:33,680 --> 03:58:40,239 page with a lot of these topics. So today I'm really going to focus on two 2168 03:58:38,479 --> 03:58:44,479 two of those areas that relate as it relates to condition 9 which are you 2169 03:58:42,720 --> 03:58:47,199 know what is our plan for signage and really what is our plan for 2170 03:58:45,600 --> 03:58:52,080 communication and how are those things going to work together to really notify 2171 03:58:49,600 --> 03:58:55,840 drivers um especially as we lead up to tolling commencement of the Floyd Hill 2172 03:58:53,760 --> 03:58:58,960 lane but also po post opening of the Floyd Hill Express lane. How are we 2173 03:58:57,600 --> 03:59:02,160 going to evaluate that signs are working? How are we going to evaluate 2174 03:59:00,319 --> 03:59:06,239 that our communication strategy is working and you know how how would we 2175 03:59:04,880 --> 03:59:09,520 make changes? What are what information are we going to use? So really my goal 2176 03:59:07,680 --> 03:59:13,040 today is just to reconnect with the commissioners, talk about signage. 2177 03:59:10,960 --> 03:59:16,080 Obviously Kurt is designing a project that has signage. So he's going to 2178 03:59:14,319 --> 03:59:19,840 contribute to sort of the first part and the discussion on signage and I'll talk 2179 03:59:18,160 --> 03:59:23,840 a lot about communications. Clearly Staca Sers is here to also talk about 2180 03:59:21,760 --> 03:59:28,720 communications. She's on the project now. Um so she'll kind of provide some 2181 03:59:26,399 --> 03:59:32,399 input too on um how the Floyd Hill communications work that's already being 2182 03:59:30,239 --> 03:59:36,319 done can help we can help leverage that as we look to sort of launch tolling um 2183 03:59:34,960 --> 03:59:38,080 with the Floyd Hill lane that's going to open. 2184 03:59:37,600 --> 03:59:44,000 » Next slide. >> Yeah. Um just just one quick question 2185 03:59:40,479 --> 03:59:51,840 again on signage. Sorry. Um the top of Floyd Hill I mean looks wide open and 2186 03:59:47,279 --> 04:00:00,720 wonderful. It looks great. Um, but is it going to be narrower as it um extends 2187 03:59:57,359 --> 04:00:06,880 through the county or I I mean I I guess it has to be through Idaho Springs. So 2188 04:00:04,319 --> 04:00:11,600 still still still need to put people on notice that it's not 2189 04:00:09,359 --> 04:00:14,720 » open commissioner in in the interim we will continue to have those narrowed 2190 04:00:13,040 --> 04:00:19,760 lanes and we're going to move traffic around for construction but um after the 2191 04:00:18,239 --> 04:00:24,319 Floyd Hill project's done everything will be up to standard. So we will have 2192 04:00:21,199 --> 04:00:28,319 the standard 12T lanes. There will be a buffer which is at the top of Floyd 2193 04:00:26,319 --> 04:00:31,600 Hill. Those are 12t lanes. So those lane widths will be the same 2194 04:00:29,760 --> 04:00:37,359 » throughout the entire stretch of Floyd Hill until it ties in to the Mountain 2195 04:00:33,840 --> 04:00:44,720 Express lane. Um, and then there will be a buffer 2 to 4 ft buffer separating the 2196 04:00:42,080 --> 04:00:48,880 Floyd Hill Express lane from the two general purpose lanes. So there'll be a 2197 04:00:46,960 --> 04:00:51,520 buffer in between similar to what you see down in Denver. And then there'll be 2198 04:00:50,160 --> 04:00:56,399 standard shoulders. >> And how are you going to do that without 2199 04:00:53,680 --> 04:01:00,399 building out into Idaho Springs? I have a slide on it coming up. 2200 04:00:58,160 --> 04:01:04,720 » Okay. [laughter] Thank you. >> Well, you know, obviously I'm not an 2201 04:01:02,160 --> 04:01:08,000 engineer, so I am relying a lot. My team is working with Kurt on how the project 2202 04:01:06,560 --> 04:01:11,520 is being designed, you know, from a signage perspective. So, I'm going to 2203 04:01:09,760 --> 04:01:16,160 let Kurt just talk a little bit about the approach to the signage on the 2204 04:01:14,000 --> 04:01:19,120 project that's being constructed. Um, since he obviously is an engineer and 2205 04:01:17,760 --> 04:01:22,960 can speak a little more eloquently to that than I can. 2206 04:01:20,399 --> 04:01:27,120 » Thank you, Piper. Yeah. And and so one of the things that we really look for 2207 04:01:24,479 --> 04:01:32,399 and are actually required to do is to keep signage consistent throughout the 2208 04:01:29,120 --> 04:01:39,359 state and the country as well. And so we have a manual of uniform traffic control 2209 04:01:36,319 --> 04:01:46,880 devices that we use that really designates how we sign our highways. And 2210 04:01:43,680 --> 04:01:50,960 so that's what we use when we do design. And I know that that's the approach to 2211 04:01:48,800 --> 04:01:54,479 the express lanes as well. We want that all to be consistent across the state 2212 04:01:52,720 --> 04:01:58,399 because drivers need to know what to expect and we look at consistency across 2213 04:01:56,880 --> 04:02:03,760 the country as well for those out of state drivers and um everyone that's 2214 04:02:02,479 --> 04:02:09,040 coming through here. You know, we look at different methods that we can do for 2215 04:02:07,040 --> 04:02:17,199 signage. We have our variable message boards that we use and can use to 2216 04:02:13,600 --> 04:02:22,479 designate when the express lane is open, the mountain express lane is open. But 2217 04:02:19,760 --> 04:02:26,160 essentially, we come at it from approach of consistency to make sure that we're 2218 04:02:24,560 --> 04:02:30,720 doing the same things and that everybody knows what to expect. And then there's 2219 04:02:28,399 --> 04:02:34,160 also different guidance out there that you don't also want to oversign things 2220 04:02:32,640 --> 04:02:38,080 because when you put so many signs out there, then people stop paying attention 2221 04:02:35,680 --> 04:02:42,160 to it. And so there's it's kind of a balance of making sure that we sign 2222 04:02:39,760 --> 04:02:46,720 things correctly to making sure that, you know, we're not oversigning things 2223 04:02:43,680 --> 04:02:52,479 through here. So, you know, that being said, we can absolutely look at the 2224 04:02:48,960 --> 04:02:57,199 transition between this full-time told express lane that is Floyd Hill going 2225 04:02:54,800 --> 04:03:00,479 into the shoulder running lane that is open. And I think what you see up on the 2226 04:02:58,800 --> 04:03:08,399 screen there is an example of a sign that we could put near the entrance to 2227 04:03:03,840 --> 04:03:10,800 the um the shoulder running lane um that we could do something like that. And I 2228 04:03:09,760 --> 04:03:15,439 think that's something that we can continue to work through. But a lot of 2229 04:03:12,560 --> 04:03:20,960 the signage that I will show here is required and is consistent in the state. 2230 04:03:18,080 --> 04:03:26,239 And so I want to talk about the transition as well. So if you know where 2231 04:03:24,319 --> 04:03:31,040 this area is, you can see the chain up station right there. This is right just 2232 04:03:28,319 --> 04:03:34,000 the tunnel is to the right. And then as you go around the corner there, you get 2233 04:03:32,399 --> 04:03:43,120 to that first exit of Idaho Springs, exit 241. And so this is the transition 2234 04:03:38,479 --> 04:03:47,279 between the Boyd Hill lane and the shoulder running lane in the signage as 2235 04:03:45,199 --> 04:03:51,520 well. So you come out of the tunnel and you're running in the standard lane, the 2236 04:03:49,120 --> 04:03:56,000 the 12T express lane. >> And then we're getting up to right 2237 04:03:53,199 --> 04:04:00,800 across from where the chain up station is. And so then you can see the dotted 2238 04:03:59,199 --> 04:04:04,800 lines. Hopefully you can see that on there. So that's where you have to make 2239 04:04:02,880 --> 04:04:09,520 a choice. It's where you're given the choice. If the and you're in the express 2240 04:04:07,040 --> 04:04:12,800 lane and the mountain express lane is closed, the shoulder running lane is 2241 04:04:10,880 --> 04:04:18,399 closed, you have to merge back into traffic. Now, when it's open, those 2242 04:04:15,760 --> 04:04:22,080 signs that you see there will say open and then you have to make the active 2243 04:04:20,000 --> 04:04:25,760 decision to cross the dotted white line to get into the 2244 04:04:25,040 --> 04:04:29,520 shoulder running. >> So, just because they're used to it open 2245 04:04:27,600 --> 04:04:32,720 coming down Floyd Hill, it's not necessarily open at the bottom of Floyd 2246 04:04:32,399 --> 04:04:35,199 Hill. >> Correct. Okay. 2247 04:04:33,520 --> 04:04:37,840 » The agreements that were made between FHWA and the county. 2248 04:04:37,439 --> 04:04:43,279 » Great. >> You know, there we will be closed on 2249 04:04:39,760 --> 04:04:45,680 days when the 247 Floyd Hill lane is open. 2250 04:04:43,760 --> 04:04:49,439 » Thank you. >> But this is just to look at the 2251 04:04:47,120 --> 04:04:56,479 different types of signage that we use to identify when the lane's open and 2252 04:04:52,800 --> 04:04:59,840 then the the decision that you can make at the bottom of the hill so you're not 2253 04:04:57,840 --> 04:05:01,600 forced into a closed shoulder running lane. 2254 04:05:00,560 --> 04:05:04,800 » You know, we talked about that in design. We work closely with our 2255 04:05:03,439 --> 04:05:10,720 stakeholders, with the county at the table as well um to make this what we 2256 04:05:08,080 --> 04:05:15,520 deem the safest uh safest way to make that decision to 2257 04:05:13,920 --> 04:05:20,000 move into the lane when it's open or to merge back into traffic when it's 2258 04:05:17,359 --> 04:05:25,359 closed. >> And there will be no modifications to 2259 04:05:22,960 --> 04:05:30,160 the PP shoulder lane. Correct. Past >> remain at 11 ft. 2260 04:05:26,720 --> 04:05:35,920 » Yes. Pass this white project ends. Thank you. Once you get just off the screen to 2261 04:05:33,279 --> 04:05:39,840 the left and as you get closer to um Idaho Springs exit, all that is 2262 04:05:38,080 --> 04:05:43,680 remaining the exact same. >> Thank you. 2263 04:05:41,840 --> 04:05:47,680 Maybe just also add to what Kurt said. You know, I asked my team sort of for a 2264 04:05:45,840 --> 04:05:51,439 summary of, you know, we obviously have a lot of existing signage out there to 2265 04:05:49,439 --> 04:05:57,040 to Kurt's point. So, you know, we have roughly 35 signs in each direction 2266 04:05:55,040 --> 04:06:00,800 currently related to tolling and to the safety and toll enforcement program, 2267 04:05:59,199 --> 04:06:05,199 which is as a quick reminder, you know, we have the authority to issue fines for 2268 04:06:03,840 --> 04:06:06,640 people that drive in the shoulder when it's closed, 2269 04:06:06,000 --> 04:06:10,160 » right? >> Also, multiaxle vehicles who use that 2270 04:06:08,640 --> 04:06:14,720 lane when it's open because they are prohibited. 2271 04:06:11,120 --> 04:06:18,720 » Uh, and so, you know, and we have seen incredibly encouraging statistics from 2272 04:06:17,120 --> 04:06:21,680 the STEP program specifically, right? We've reduced multi-axxle vehicles to 2273 04:06:20,640 --> 04:06:23,840 almost zero >> because they talk to each other and 2274 04:06:23,199 --> 04:06:28,080 they're learning. >> They're learning. They're they're 2275 04:06:25,120 --> 04:06:32,160 getting the message. Um and as well, you know, the multi the people driving in 2276 04:06:30,640 --> 04:06:35,359 the lane when it's closed has also dropped to almost zero. And so we're 2277 04:06:33,680 --> 04:06:39,279 going to we are going to continue to operate safety and toll enforcement. It 2278 04:06:37,120 --> 04:06:43,359 will be active on Floyd Hill as well. So, you know, we have a lot of existing 2279 04:06:41,199 --> 04:06:48,479 signage out there both eastbound and westbound. 35 signs in each direction, 2280 04:06:46,080 --> 04:06:52,560 both related to tolling and steps. So, you know, they're going to get familiar 2281 04:06:50,160 --> 04:06:55,680 coming down Floyd Hill with the current signage and that will continue all the 2282 04:06:54,160 --> 04:06:59,760 way through. So, signage that exists today. And then obviously we'll be we'll 2283 04:06:57,520 --> 04:07:04,960 include, you know, signage related to the safety and toll enforcement and as 2284 04:07:01,760 --> 04:07:08,720 well, right? A lot of that is $250 fine. We have static signs that say do not 2285 04:07:06,720 --> 04:07:12,960 cross solid when told. So, there'll be similar signage as well that'll be 2286 04:07:10,800 --> 04:07:16,080 consistent throughout the existing facility that we have there both 2287 04:07:14,239 --> 04:07:20,080 eastbound and westbound and Floyd Hill. So there is quite a bit of signage out 2288 04:07:17,760 --> 04:07:24,080 there already today to Curt's point. So I think you know this will sort of add 2289 04:07:21,520 --> 04:07:28,800 more signage um on the Floyd Hill section there. So you know to Curt's 2290 04:07:26,160 --> 04:07:33,040 point we really want people to to be aware of the decision to make a safe 2291 04:07:31,040 --> 04:07:37,359 choice to make that transition safely. So you know I think um we CIO has an 2292 04:07:35,840 --> 04:07:41,040 engineer on staff that has been working with Kurt's team. Um we've thought 2293 04:07:39,439 --> 04:07:45,199 through how this will operate from kind of a standard operating procedure 2294 04:07:42,720 --> 04:07:49,920 standpoint. um we have very clear processes for opening that shoulder lane 2295 04:07:48,239 --> 04:07:53,199 and closing the shoulder lane. So I think we'll we'll we are actively 2296 04:07:51,520 --> 04:07:58,720 working on how this is going to operate together as well. 2297 04:07:54,399 --> 04:08:01,600 » No, I I I use it um as needed and I really appreciate it. So yeah, 2298 04:08:00,479 --> 04:08:05,520 » it's good to hear. >> The last thing that I will add is if you 2299 04:08:03,279 --> 04:08:08,720 see the arrows there, so the default is if you can't make that decision, then 2300 04:08:07,199 --> 04:08:13,040 you see the arrows that will force you back into the two lanes and won't get 2301 04:08:11,520 --> 04:08:18,479 you into the Mountain Express lane. And so that's another safety 2302 04:08:16,479 --> 04:08:21,439 » take on it so that they're not in the the Mountain Express lane when it's 2303 04:08:20,800 --> 04:08:26,560 closed. >> Are you planning to do anything 2304 04:08:25,120 --> 04:08:31,279 or or what plans do you have to communicate to drivers that choose to 2305 04:08:29,600 --> 04:08:36,399 get onto the Peak Period shoulder lane that they're getting onto a lane that is 2306 04:08:34,000 --> 04:08:39,760 narrow? I think Kurt gave that example on the 2307 04:08:38,239 --> 04:08:44,239 last slide of kind of some supplemental signage that we're looking at. Um, right 2308 04:08:42,399 --> 04:08:47,359 now we're looking at signage that would indicate that it's a shoulder. 2309 04:08:46,239 --> 04:08:52,239 » Um, [clears throat] >> I I don't know if we've explored signs 2310 04:08:49,120 --> 04:08:54,800 that say specifically narrow or I would have to ask. 2311 04:08:53,199 --> 04:09:00,720 » I think there's an opportunity that we can revisit that. I mean, we did talk 2312 04:08:57,600 --> 04:09:05,840 » a lot about signage and design for the >> Floyd Hill. Well, I I love the fact that 2313 04:09:03,680 --> 04:09:10,080 you're using the word shoulder because that to any driver means, oh, that's 2314 04:09:08,160 --> 04:09:12,720 something you pull off on. Oh, this is special. So, 2315 04:09:11,279 --> 04:09:16,239 » and and I think that was great feedback from the county. You know, is there 2316 04:09:14,239 --> 04:09:20,560 something we can do with supplemental signage? And I think the answer was yes. 2317 04:09:18,399 --> 04:09:24,080 And we we've worked with FHWA and we're coming up with some options on what 2318 04:09:22,080 --> 04:09:27,439 those signs could be. So, this is one example, but I think we could certainly 2319 04:09:25,920 --> 04:09:31,359 look and see if there's an option to use, you know, narrow or 2320 04:09:30,239 --> 04:09:34,000 » I'm not stuck on a specific >> Yeah. No, but it's a good piece of 2321 04:09:32,640 --> 04:09:37,040 feedback. So, I think this was just one option that we picked because I think we 2322 04:09:35,600 --> 04:09:40,560 did hear from the county that it was important to differentiate the shoulder 2323 04:09:39,359 --> 04:09:44,000 piece. So, thank you. >> Um, yes. Good. I I appreciate the 2324 04:09:42,479 --> 04:09:48,600 feedback, but I think this is sort of one option. Still kind of a work in 2325 04:09:45,600 --> 04:09:48,600 progress. 2326 04:09:49,680 --> 04:09:57,520 » So, what are the events from a C do perspective that would prompt a review 2327 04:09:54,560 --> 04:10:01,840 of signage? And you know, I think we're not just going to build Floyd Hill and 2328 04:09:59,439 --> 04:10:07,359 then just walk away and deal with it, right? So, if we start getting a lot of 2329 04:10:04,000 --> 04:10:11,359 complaints and we see confused drivers, we're going to relook at it, you know, 2330 04:10:09,199 --> 04:10:16,160 and if we hear feedback from you guys to say, "This is not working well." We've 2331 04:10:13,439 --> 04:10:21,199 done that in the past and and we know, you know, former commissioner from the 2332 04:10:18,640 --> 04:10:25,520 county drove Floyd Hill and didn't like our transition that was in the tunnel. 2333 04:10:23,520 --> 04:10:30,000 and we looked at that and we made the change. So that's just an example of 2334 04:10:27,520 --> 04:10:35,920 like, you know, when we hear feedback, whether it's from locals, from citizens, 2335 04:10:33,120 --> 04:10:38,960 if we see crashes, if we see problems with that transition when it opens, 2336 04:10:37,760 --> 04:10:42,080 we're going to monitor it and we're going to look at it and we're going to 2337 04:10:39,920 --> 04:10:49,120 look at at the safety of it, including the signage as well. Um and then um 2338 04:10:47,279 --> 04:10:55,359 before and after safety and operational studies uh to determine, you know, is 2339 04:10:52,479 --> 04:11:00,479 this successful? Is this working? So, I guess my main point is we're not just 2340 04:10:56,960 --> 04:11:04,560 going to walk away and and let everybody deal with it. We're going to make sure 2341 04:11:02,000 --> 04:11:06,800 that it is safe and when it's operational. 2342 04:11:05,199 --> 04:11:10,800 » From your perspective, will we have a role in scoping those studies? Because I 2343 04:11:09,359 --> 04:11:13,840 know when we've had safety conversations over the past, there's been a lot of 2344 04:11:12,000 --> 04:11:18,000 dialogue about the right thing to measure. At one point, we were seeing I 2345 04:11:15,760 --> 04:11:20,720 think accident volume being reported and we were looking at rate wanting to look 2346 04:11:19,359 --> 04:11:21,920 at rate stats. I can't remember the specifics, but 2347 04:11:21,600 --> 04:11:25,439 » yeah. >> Do do we have a role in scope in that 2348 04:11:23,840 --> 04:11:30,720 study? >> I you know, this is from our traffic 2349 04:11:27,520 --> 04:11:34,800 group that they do and and um Floyd Hill, but I can get you more I I don't 2350 04:11:32,720 --> 04:11:37,760 see why not, but uh I can get you a better answer to that once to talk to my 2351 04:11:36,399 --> 04:11:41,040 traffic folks. That's the one expert I didn't print. 2352 04:11:39,680 --> 04:11:43,840 » Agreeing on what we should be measuring on the front end is way better than 2353 04:11:42,399 --> 04:11:45,840 arguing about it on the back end. >> Agreed. 2354 04:11:44,399 --> 04:11:49,120 » Well, and I would think so, too, especially if it was a complaint coming 2355 04:11:47,520 --> 04:11:54,800 from, you know, residents in your county. I I 2356 04:11:52,319 --> 04:11:59,439 think that would seem reasonable. >> We can certainly follow up. Okay. 2357 04:11:57,520 --> 04:12:04,239 » And we're have the opportunity to monitor it before we're even the Floyd 2358 04:12:02,479 --> 04:12:09,040 Hill project is gone. So there'll be a period of the 2359 04:12:06,880 --> 04:12:13,000 the transition and we're keep an eye on that. So we'll be out here. 2360 04:12:13,439 --> 04:12:18,399 » Um so transitioning a little bit, you know, I think the the two things we 2361 04:12:16,640 --> 04:12:22,239 heard, right, was more information on signage plan and what are we 2362 04:12:20,640 --> 04:12:26,080 communicating, right? How are we going to be communicating to drivers? What are 2363 04:12:24,080 --> 04:12:29,840 we telling them? And also just a little bit about, you know, what is kind of the 2364 04:12:27,680 --> 04:12:33,840 timeline for a communication strategy. So really wanted to focus a little bit 2365 04:12:31,760 --> 04:12:38,720 today. um drawing from some of our experience experience launching you know 2366 04:12:36,399 --> 04:12:42,960 other express lanes facilities you know across the larger metro area and sort of 2367 04:12:41,680 --> 04:12:45,840 what we've learned from those and how this is going to be different clearly 2368 04:12:44,319 --> 04:12:49,359 this is a this is going to be a very different facility and how it operates 2369 04:12:47,279 --> 04:12:53,120 together so you know in general our approach to communication is first and 2370 04:12:51,120 --> 04:12:57,359 foremost education we want people to understand that it's told how to use the 2371 04:12:55,760 --> 04:13:02,399 ingress and eress zones so where they can enter where they can exit safely um 2372 04:13:00,159 --> 04:13:05,760 you know really a how-to that it's told, how you pay a toll, how you use the 2373 04:13:04,319 --> 04:13:10,239 express lane safely, and what does the signage mean? You know, second is really 2374 04:13:08,479 --> 04:13:13,680 building relationships with stakeholders in the areas where we have express 2375 04:13:11,680 --> 04:13:16,800 lanes. You know, we I know Stacia has already built great relationships with 2376 04:13:15,279 --> 04:13:21,279 your public information officer through the Floyd Hill project. And, you know, 2377 04:13:19,279 --> 04:13:26,239 on other corridors, we have had great partnerships with um MPOs and 2378 04:13:24,399 --> 04:13:31,439 stakeholders where we're opening express lanes. I25 is a is a recent example. we 2379 04:13:28,640 --> 04:13:34,560 were able to partner with um CSU Fort Collins, for example, because a lot of 2380 04:13:33,199 --> 04:13:38,800 students are going to be driving in those express lanes. So, I think we're 2381 04:13:36,399 --> 04:13:42,000 really looking to build long-term relationships with stakeholders because 2382 04:13:40,560 --> 04:13:46,479 these lanes are going to be open and operating there for many years. And so, 2383 04:13:44,720 --> 04:13:50,800 we really want to have established strong partnerships from the beginning. 2384 04:13:48,159 --> 04:13:54,960 So, uh they can help us communicate out information to constituents or, you 2385 04:13:53,600 --> 04:13:59,040 know, community members that may have questions. So that's a key piece of our 2386 04:13:56,800 --> 04:14:02,479 communications approach. I alone can't get the word out, right? So we are going 2387 04:14:00,319 --> 04:14:06,880 to be really relying on people to help, you know, get our messages out there and 2388 04:14:04,800 --> 04:14:11,359 um make sure that their uh communities know how to use safely. And again, 2389 04:14:09,600 --> 04:14:16,319 specifically to this project, I think we have a real opportunity here to continue 2390 04:14:13,840 --> 04:14:21,439 utilizing the CSS process that exists to date on this project to look at how 2391 04:14:19,439 --> 04:14:25,120 we're managing and evaluating the facility moving forward. Right. To 2392 04:14:23,040 --> 04:14:28,720 Curt's point, this isn't just a we're going to open the lane and go away, but 2393 04:14:26,640 --> 04:14:34,080 I think the CSS process creates a really unique opportunity for us to continue um 2394 04:14:32,000 --> 04:14:38,000 re-engaging on how the facility is working and how communication plays a 2395 04:14:36,080 --> 04:14:42,960 part in that. So that would be sort of our general approach to communications 2396 04:14:40,319 --> 04:14:47,359 um across our network, but obviously what we would be specifically focusing 2397 04:14:45,040 --> 04:14:50,159 on here on this facility and just the unique nature of the relationship that 2398 04:14:48,880 --> 04:14:53,760 we have with Clear Creek through the permit and through sort of the CSS 2399 04:14:52,000 --> 04:14:57,359 process process that exists on the corridor today. 2400 04:14:55,439 --> 04:15:00,880 » Next slide, Kurt. >> So to give you a sense of like when we 2401 04:14:59,199 --> 04:15:05,359 might be communicating information publicly, this is sort of an example 2402 04:15:03,520 --> 04:15:09,199 timeline that I put together for you all, right? We're still a ways out from 2403 04:15:07,600 --> 04:15:13,760 tolling commencement on this project when we would generally be out talking 2404 04:15:11,120 --> 04:15:17,760 about tolling rates, things like that. So, we're still a ways out from that. 2405 04:15:15,680 --> 04:15:23,040 But the good thing is that we have a lot of opportunity to craft a strategy 2406 04:15:19,760 --> 04:15:26,000 together that's going to look and feel like it meets the needs of your 2407 04:15:24,319 --> 04:15:30,960 community, but also those traveling from, you know, the front range, etc. 2408 04:15:27,840 --> 04:15:34,720 So, um, you know, really today, I think this starting to just put out 2409 04:15:32,640 --> 04:15:38,000 information on Floyd Hill websites and some other, you know, existing media 2410 04:15:36,640 --> 04:15:42,640 that we have on just what that transition is going to look like so that 2411 04:15:40,080 --> 04:15:48,000 people know it's coming. But really throughout 2027 is when we would really 2412 04:15:45,199 --> 04:15:52,239 start working on the plan. What are the materials we're going to develop? 2413 04:15:49,840 --> 04:15:58,080 working with you all um with the appropriate staff people on ideas who 2414 04:15:55,279 --> 04:16:02,080 might be able to you know help amplify our message. We generally as part of our 2415 04:16:00,319 --> 04:16:07,279 communication and outreach develop a pretty extensive toolkit that we 2416 04:16:04,560 --> 04:16:10,080 distribute to stakeholders um so again that you can be distributing 2417 04:16:08,720 --> 04:16:14,880 information. We're going to be working on our partnerships. So really all my 2418 04:16:12,880 --> 04:16:19,359 point to you all is over the next year we really have a lot of opportunities to 2419 04:16:17,920 --> 04:16:22,560 connect and and make sure that we're aligned on what that strategy is before 2420 04:16:21,199 --> 04:16:26,080 it goes public and that it's really meeting the needs of this specific 2421 04:16:24,560 --> 04:16:30,640 project. It is because it is very unique. Um and clearly you know Stacia 2422 04:16:29,040 --> 04:16:34,720 already has a lot of relationships on the corridor and projects. We want to 2423 04:16:32,000 --> 04:16:40,080 leverage that as much as possible. Uh so really we would be looking to start 2424 04:16:37,520 --> 04:16:45,040 talking more publicly about tolling. January of 2028 is our rough timeline. 2425 04:16:43,279 --> 04:16:49,359 Roughly four months out is really when we start having information be more 2426 04:16:47,199 --> 04:16:53,520 public about tolling is coming, what you can expect. Um so we would then be 2427 04:16:51,840 --> 04:16:57,359 implementing our communications plan, distributing tools. 2428 04:16:55,199 --> 04:17:03,359 » Okay. So I'm a little confused. Sure. Um tolling isn't anything new except on the 2429 04:17:00,560 --> 04:17:06,399 upper part of Floyd Hill and through the um tunnels. 2430 04:17:03,920 --> 04:17:11,120 » Yes. Yes. Exactly. But we would want certainly want to be communicating that 2431 04:17:09,120 --> 04:17:14,560 » tolling is new on Floyd Hill, right? >> But also how to use the facility, right? 2432 04:17:12,960 --> 04:17:19,439 That there is a transition point and there so figuring out how we communicate 2433 04:17:17,279 --> 04:17:22,640 the new lane integrating with the existing shoulder hard running shoulder 2434 04:17:21,199 --> 04:17:25,840 lanes. You know, how do you know when they're open? How do you know when 2435 04:17:23,600 --> 04:17:30,560 they're closed? So I think making sure that our communication strategy isn't 2436 04:17:27,920 --> 04:17:35,439 just focused on Floyd Hill recognizing that it's going to connect into an 2437 04:17:32,080 --> 04:17:40,239 existing facility there. So um we really would be starting to go live again. 2438 04:17:37,439 --> 04:17:46,159 Beginning of 2028 is when we would be doing more paid media. We have had a lot 2439 04:17:43,840 --> 04:17:51,520 of success with geo targeting. So Spotify, Pandora. We have developed 30 2440 04:17:48,880 --> 04:17:55,040 secondond how-to videos that have been successful. We already have an existing 2441 04:17:52,800 --> 04:17:59,359 one on how to use the current mountain express lane which has been really 2442 04:17:56,800 --> 04:18:05,120 popular. So again we would be leveraging all of C DOT's channels co-rip uh you 2443 04:18:02,720 --> 04:18:09,920 know sea dots owned kind of websites certainly working with news media on the 2444 04:18:08,239 --> 04:18:15,199 launch we've had a lot of success and partnerships with you know news stations 2445 04:18:12,560 --> 04:18:18,880 radio etc. So really again uh maybe next slide Kurt so you could see maybe a bit 2446 04:18:16,640 --> 04:18:22,720 of a sense of like how we're going to be communicating. We're going to leverage 2447 04:18:20,880 --> 04:18:27,439 every tool in the toolbox. Like we we have done tolling launches before. So we 2448 04:18:25,840 --> 04:18:31,120 have a lot of great partnerships we want to leverage. For example, I70 things has 2449 04:18:29,520 --> 04:18:34,720 been a really good partner for us throughout operations of the amount 2450 04:18:32,640 --> 04:18:39,199 express lane. So again, continuing to sort of leverage some of these 2451 04:18:36,640 --> 04:18:44,239 communication channels and points to create a really comprehensive, you know, 2452 04:18:41,840 --> 04:18:47,600 media plan when tolling is going to commence is really our strategy here. 2453 04:18:46,159 --> 04:18:50,800 And maybe I don't know, Staca, do you have anything to kind of add on maybe 2454 04:18:48,880 --> 04:18:54,000 what's been successful with Floyd Hill Construction and you know how we could 2455 04:18:52,479 --> 04:18:58,000 maybe tap into that? >> Yeah, so we have a lot of great 2456 04:18:55,279 --> 04:19:01,439 resources already for the project. So we have our weekly eblasts that go out uh 2457 04:19:00,640 --> 04:19:04,880 so we can >> all the great text messages. 2458 04:19:02,960 --> 04:19:08,640 » Yes, the text messages which we can communicate a little bit about the 2459 04:19:06,640 --> 04:19:13,279 upcoming tolls starting on those text messages and then include a link that 2460 04:19:11,600 --> 04:19:19,439 points people to the website for additional information. Um we have our 2461 04:19:17,199 --> 04:19:24,239 hotline that you can call into which we can certainly put a message on there uh 2462 04:19:21,920 --> 04:19:28,479 to provide additional information. Our website again is also a really great 2463 04:19:26,080 --> 04:19:36,080 resource um which we are going to be linking to. Um and then uh Kurt and I do 2464 04:19:33,760 --> 04:19:40,399 a lot of community presentations as well. So, when we're ready to start to 2465 04:19:37,920 --> 04:19:44,319 communicate this information, we'll go out and include this information in our 2466 04:19:42,399 --> 04:19:49,840 presentations as well and connect with community leaders, uh, elected officials 2467 04:19:47,359 --> 04:19:54,000 to educate folks as much as possible about what the tooling will look like 2468 04:19:51,520 --> 04:19:58,479 and also the transition point. And then Megan's part of our, uh, PIL meeting. 2469 04:19:57,040 --> 04:20:03,359 Um, so it's our public information leadership team and that also includes 2470 04:20:00,560 --> 04:20:07,920 folks from Gilpin County, um, I70 coalition, all of our PIOs along the 2471 04:20:06,159 --> 04:20:12,560 corridor. So that will help us to maximize our communications efforts 2472 04:20:10,239 --> 04:20:16,159 around the upcoming tolling and again the transition point, which I think is 2473 04:20:14,080 --> 04:20:21,760 really going to be the most critical piece of this um, when educating the 2474 04:20:18,159 --> 04:20:27,120 public about what to expect. Um, and I wanted to talk a little bit to 2475 04:20:25,359 --> 04:20:31,120 I just to touch on like the wrap up the last point on the timeline. You know, to 2476 04:20:28,479 --> 04:20:34,880 Curt's point, we really communications for us is really ongoing. There'll 2477 04:20:32,640 --> 04:20:39,199 certainly be a big push to to Staca's point around kind of what we call 2478 04:20:36,720 --> 04:20:42,560 tolling go live, but we we really are going to be monitoring and doing, you 2479 04:20:41,120 --> 04:20:46,479 know, some level of ongoing communications. We do on all of our 2480 04:20:44,159 --> 04:20:50,720 corridors to really again make sure that people are still getting the message. 2481 04:20:47,920 --> 04:20:54,560 And I'll on another slide I in the future I'll talk about like how are we 2482 04:20:52,479 --> 04:20:59,920 evaluating that? Where are some gaps potentially that we're seeing? So we do 2483 04:20:56,800 --> 04:21:04,479 have you know a lot of opportunities to refocus communications um supplement 2484 04:21:02,560 --> 04:21:08,960 communications sort of as we go. So certainly we'll be evaluating outside of 2485 04:21:06,560 --> 04:21:14,960 that big push. There will be ongoing comms right throughout the corridor um 2486 04:21:11,680 --> 04:21:19,279 well into 2028 and beyond. So, just to highlight that and one thing I that's 2487 04:21:17,920 --> 04:21:22,560 very unique to this corridor is obviously the amount of out of state 2488 04:21:20,880 --> 04:21:27,760 drivers that we get on this home. Certainly, you know, tourists looking to 2489 04:21:25,520 --> 04:21:32,319 ski or just recreate over the summer and the winter season. CTIO actually already 2490 04:21:30,560 --> 04:21:36,640 has a lot of really unique partnerships that I think we can leverage here. One, 2491 04:21:34,319 --> 04:21:40,319 we have great relationships at the airport with the rental car agencies, 2492 04:21:38,560 --> 04:21:44,640 especially related to safety and toll enforcement. This partnership originally 2493 04:21:42,319 --> 04:21:49,279 started because we didn't want people in rental cars, you know, getting a 2494 04:21:46,960 --> 04:21:53,439 violation for not knowing the rules of the road, right? So, we have a lot of 2495 04:21:51,120 --> 04:21:58,000 great partnerships already established with rental car ent um agencies at the 2496 04:21:56,080 --> 04:22:02,880 airport to start with. So, certainly providing them more information, 2497 04:21:59,840 --> 04:22:05,760 especially on Floyd Hill is opening. You know, again, the unique nature of travel 2498 04:22:04,479 --> 04:22:07,920 if you're going to choose the express lane, 2499 04:22:06,239 --> 04:22:12,479 » road conditions, don't have summer tires. Yeah, I'm sure I I would defer to 2500 04:22:10,880 --> 04:22:18,319 you on how we're communicating more largely about, you know, chain laws or 2501 04:22:16,159 --> 04:22:23,040 things like that or driving conditions more generally. [clears throat] 2502 04:22:20,080 --> 04:22:27,359 » Yeah. So, um we are developing great relationships with the rental car uh 2503 04:22:25,199 --> 04:22:31,680 companies, especially Enterprise. Um they've been including us in meetings 2504 04:22:29,600 --> 04:22:36,000 with stakeholders prior to the winter season to talk about the updated 2505 04:22:33,439 --> 04:22:42,800 passenger traction laws uh and chain laws as well. Um and we just updated our 2506 04:22:39,359 --> 04:22:47,680 rack cards. So, um cards that will be put into every vehicle uh that folks are 2507 04:22:46,000 --> 04:22:51,439 renting and especially before they head up to the mountains. And those cards 2508 04:22:49,439 --> 04:22:54,640 include um information about the traction and chain laws and then also 2509 04:22:53,040 --> 04:22:59,199 includes information about how to use the mountain express lane and some of 2510 04:22:56,399 --> 04:23:03,040 our other toll lanes um across the state. So that information is going out 2511 04:23:01,520 --> 04:23:08,159 and that's a partnership that we continue to cultivate and try to bring 2512 04:23:05,439 --> 04:23:09,760 as many C dot voices to the table when talking with those folks. 2513 04:23:09,439 --> 04:23:12,159 » That's good. >> I would love to see an example of that 2514 04:23:11,199 --> 04:23:15,120 rat card. >> Yes. Yeah. 2515 04:23:13,520 --> 04:23:17,600 » I'd love the opportunity to comment on a draft. 2516 04:23:16,800 --> 04:23:23,439 » Yeah. >> Yes. It has been finalized and it's been 2517 04:23:19,840 --> 04:23:26,880 sent out, but I will uh send it to you. >> And I think we'll be developing some 2518 04:23:25,199 --> 04:23:31,520 specific materials for people to have like at the counter for example. So 2519 04:23:29,199 --> 04:23:35,157 happy to share those too as we work on developing them. Um so I think there's 2520 04:23:33,680 --> 04:23:38,960 some good opportunities we can continue [clears throat] to share drafts of sort 2521 04:23:36,479 --> 04:23:42,800 of what we're communicating as well. Uh again just highlighting you know we have 2522 04:23:40,560 --> 04:23:46,800 partnerships already with you know the tourism offices. So we're already 2523 04:23:44,399 --> 04:23:49,680 thinking creatively about how we can you know show videos at maybe some of the 2524 04:23:48,239 --> 04:23:52,800 welcome centers. Like I mentioned we've had a lot of success with these little 2525 04:23:51,040 --> 04:23:57,040 30-se secondond clips on sort of how to use the express lane um safety and toll 2526 04:23:55,600 --> 04:24:02,239 enforcement. So really trying to leverage those and get them to to as 2527 04:23:58,960 --> 04:24:05,760 many audiences as possible. Uh we have great partnerships already with some of 2528 04:24:04,000 --> 04:24:09,520 the ski resorts. We've had a lot of successful partnerships knowing that 2529 04:24:07,439 --> 04:24:12,960 people are driving through Clear Creek, right, to get to skiing in the 2530 04:24:10,880 --> 04:24:17,359 wintertime. So really trying to just leverage where we can get get to out of 2531 04:24:15,600 --> 04:24:22,560 state drivers, get to tourists to get our message across with again our goal 2532 04:24:19,600 --> 04:24:26,399 being how to use the lanes um how to use them safely and you know to Staca's 2533 04:24:24,479 --> 04:24:30,000 point sort of um being aware of other laws too that are going to impact their 2534 04:24:28,000 --> 04:24:34,239 trip along I70. >> That's great. Thank you. 2535 04:24:31,840 --> 04:24:38,319 » Next slide, Kurt. And so you know kind of at a basic level so what if what are 2536 04:24:36,000 --> 04:24:43,040 we communicating um out to people as part of these campaigns? So I just chose 2537 04:24:40,080 --> 04:24:48,399 a few examples of ones. The one on the right there is from our launch when we 2538 04:24:46,399 --> 04:24:52,479 launched tolling on Central 70 which will take you out to the airport. So 2539 04:24:50,159 --> 04:24:57,040 really expressing you know tolling is starting. The example on the left is 2540 04:24:54,880 --> 04:25:01,199 from our safety enforcement campaign cross the line pay the fine which has 2541 04:24:58,960 --> 04:25:06,319 been very successful and impactful. We even have a few examples that are with 2542 04:25:03,680 --> 04:25:09,359 pictures that are from this uh corridor specifically. So again, this is just 2543 04:25:08,080 --> 04:25:12,800 some examples of what we're communicating, right? That tolling is 2544 04:25:10,880 --> 04:25:16,960 launching. Again, that safety and toll enforcement will be launching, how to 2545 04:25:14,239 --> 04:25:20,239 use them safely, how to pay a toll, um directing them to more information, um 2546 04:25:18,880 --> 04:25:23,840 where they can find it. So these are just a few examples from prior 2547 04:25:22,080 --> 04:25:27,920 campaigns. So, we haven't developed any collateral yet for for this campaign, 2548 04:25:26,159 --> 04:25:32,403 but we would certainly be working on those over kind of that 2027 time period 2549 04:25:30,800 --> 04:25:35,439 and would welcome, you know, input [clears throat] and collaboration as 2550 04:25:33,520 --> 04:25:39,920 SATA mentioned through some of those some of those channels. 2551 04:25:36,399 --> 04:25:44,159 » I' I've I've driven uh was that C470 some of those roads 2552 04:25:41,120 --> 04:25:48,319 » and um I've noticed that the double white line is down the hill, but we just 2553 04:25:46,640 --> 04:25:53,760 have a single yellow line. Is that going to change once everything's 2554 04:25:51,040 --> 04:25:58,000 » So, I'm going to talk about Floyd Hill and Floyd Hill will not have the yellow 2555 04:25:56,000 --> 04:26:00,560 line. It will have double white lines with a buffer separating the express 2556 04:25:59,760 --> 04:26:04,159 lane. >> Once you get to that transition and make 2557 04:26:02,880 --> 04:26:06,000 the transition from there on, everything's staying the same with the 2558 04:26:05,279 --> 04:26:10,080 yellow line. >> Okay. And then that's another hint for 2559 04:26:08,479 --> 04:26:12,800 drivers that >> something's changed. 2560 04:26:11,439 --> 04:26:17,040 » Yeah. >> Next slide, Kurt. Again, here's another 2561 04:26:15,520 --> 04:26:21,279 example. I mentioned we put together these stakeholder toolkits and this is 2562 04:26:19,040 --> 04:26:24,640 an example actually from this corridor. So we we've had a lot of success with 2563 04:26:23,040 --> 04:26:28,560 these kind of tear off sheets. So if you want even you could have information 2564 04:26:26,159 --> 04:26:31,600 here right kind of a take as you go. So again this is an example of kind of a 2565 04:26:30,000 --> 04:26:36,080 fact sheet with information that we would be developing and updating clearly 2566 04:26:34,239 --> 04:26:38,880 but this is an example of a current one that we have from this corridor 2567 04:26:37,520 --> 04:26:43,120 specifically. So again, trying to find lots of different channels and lots of 2568 04:26:40,479 --> 04:26:46,720 different um materials that we can put out through different channels for 2569 04:26:44,399 --> 04:26:50,640 people to um get information on how to use the express lanes and the rules of 2570 04:26:48,399 --> 04:26:56,000 the road clearly here on no oversized vehicles and no weaving. 2571 04:26:53,359 --> 04:26:58,720 Next slide, Kurt. Uh I think that great tea up to this actually, Commissioner 2572 04:26:57,520 --> 04:27:03,439 Lloyd, on the difference in the striping. You know, we are obviously 2573 04:27:00,960 --> 04:27:07,439 going to focus on the unique nature of this corridor specifically. there's 2574 04:27:05,439 --> 04:27:12,080 going to be different operating rules. You know, obviously Floyd Hill Lane will 2575 04:27:09,439 --> 04:27:16,000 operate in one direction only. So, communicating visually with examples is 2576 04:27:14,560 --> 04:27:20,640 going to be important. So, showing striping, showing signage on what people 2577 04:27:18,800 --> 04:27:23,755 can expect. And again, I I mentioned the video. We've had just a lot of success 2578 04:27:22,080 --> 04:27:27,680 with those on how to enter and exit. [clears throat] So, these are some 2579 04:27:24,880 --> 04:27:30,800 ideas. Um, but certainly showing what that striping looks like and how it's 2580 04:27:29,279 --> 04:27:35,040 different and what drivers can expect will be sort of a key piece of of some 2581 04:27:33,040 --> 04:27:38,800 of this collateral that um, we're going to be developing. So, just wanted to 2582 04:27:37,120 --> 04:27:43,920 talk a little bit about some specific messaging considerations that we will 2583 04:27:41,120 --> 04:27:46,960 um, focus on for this particular project and corridor. 2584 04:27:45,760 --> 04:27:51,120 Did you have anything to add to that, Staca? Okay. Okay. 2585 04:27:49,680 --> 04:27:53,680 » So, I talked a little bit about and I think some feedback that we heard from 2586 04:27:52,239 --> 04:27:58,000 you all is how do we know that this is all working? Um, and so, you know, to 2587 04:27:55,840 --> 04:28:03,040 Curt's point, this is definitely not a set it and forget it. I think CTIO 2588 04:28:00,159 --> 04:28:08,080 already regularly surveys drivers. We have, you know, a survey that goes out. 2589 04:28:05,120 --> 04:28:11,520 So, we've been doing this since 2016 regarding, you know, we ask all kinds of 2590 04:28:09,840 --> 04:28:14,960 questions about the lanes, how do you use them? We add questions related to 2591 04:28:13,199 --> 04:28:19,279 STEP. We'll certainly probably add questions related to Floyd Hill and 2592 04:28:17,600 --> 04:28:24,239 Mexel. So, again, would certainly welcome your input into that. So, we do 2593 04:28:21,439 --> 04:28:28,640 regular surveys. We we've talked a lot about data throughout both presentations 2594 04:28:26,880 --> 04:28:32,880 and we have a lot of data coming from the safety and toll enforcement program. 2595 04:28:30,399 --> 04:28:36,640 So, who is getting violations? We know if people are out of state drivers. We 2596 04:28:34,479 --> 04:28:40,000 can know if it's a rental car plate. We also can see where there's pain points, 2597 04:28:38,560 --> 04:28:44,640 right? Is there a high number of violations coming from certain ingress 2598 04:28:42,560 --> 04:28:48,720 and egress zones or specific areas on the road? So, we have already been using 2599 04:28:46,800 --> 04:28:53,040 that data in the metro area to make adjustments to striping and signage in 2600 04:28:51,520 --> 04:28:56,239 some cases. So, we would certainly be doing that here because we are 2601 04:28:54,080 --> 04:29:00,399 collecting a lot of really useful data from that safety and toll enforcement 2602 04:28:57,920 --> 04:29:05,920 and we would certainly use that to help inform potentially uh you know striping 2603 04:29:03,680 --> 04:29:10,399 and signage changes but also communications um efforts, right? Maybe 2604 04:29:08,880 --> 04:29:14,000 we're seeing a lot of out of state drivers receiving violations. How can we 2605 04:29:12,640 --> 04:29:16,479 double down on our efforts to reach those drivers? So again, just to say 2606 04:29:15,520 --> 04:29:19,760 we're really going to be trying to leverage a lot of the data that CTIO is 2607 04:29:18,399 --> 04:29:24,159 collecting as part of its tolling program, you know, and again, just 2608 04:29:21,680 --> 04:29:27,359 hearing from you all u as we do with our other stakeholders on how the program is 2609 04:29:25,840 --> 04:29:31,040 working. What are you hearing from your constituents? As Kurt mentioned, are you 2610 04:29:29,520 --> 04:29:34,640 hearing that there's confusion on signage um or maybe that people don't 2611 04:29:33,359 --> 04:29:38,399 understand how to use the lane? That would really be an important feedback 2612 04:29:36,319 --> 04:29:42,960 loop for us. And again, just really trying to have regular touch points with 2613 04:29:40,880 --> 04:29:48,399 a variety of industry groups and tourism stakeholders. um as they gather input 2614 04:29:45,840 --> 04:29:52,640 from visitors to ski resorts or hotels or other you know facilities um along 2615 04:29:50,399 --> 04:29:57,439 the corridor. So just wanted to highlight that. 2616 04:29:54,560 --> 04:30:02,080 Next slide Kurt. And again just to end on some next steps just to remind the 2617 04:29:59,600 --> 04:30:06,000 commissioners you know again there's a lot of touch points that we already have 2618 04:30:04,399 --> 04:30:10,960 as part of the permit where we're going to be evaluating operations. So we have 2619 04:30:08,720 --> 04:30:15,199 you know one we need to revisit the oper operational limitation. So that's the 2620 04:30:12,720 --> 04:30:20,720 hours and days that we have, you know, to open the hard running shoulder lanes 2621 04:30:18,479 --> 04:30:24,399 when Floyd Hill opens. So just how is it all operating? Are those hours and days 2622 04:30:22,479 --> 04:30:29,840 meeting the need? What is the demand look like? Um and obviously we still 2623 04:30:27,040 --> 04:30:34,560 have the 2035 date in there and you know we have already started gathering data 2624 04:30:32,720 --> 04:30:38,479 to help inform that process so that we can start a CSS to look at what does the 2625 04:30:36,960 --> 04:30:44,479 future look like you know because there is still that 2035 date. Well, that's 2626 04:30:41,040 --> 04:30:49,920 that's that's interesting. Um, >> you know, I 2627 04:30:46,479 --> 04:30:54,479 I don't have a problem paying for a toll when I really have to get somewhere and 2628 04:30:51,600 --> 04:30:58,560 everything's backed up. Um, and I kind of feel like I'm doing everybody else a 2629 04:30:56,319 --> 04:31:03,520 favor by not standing in that, you know, sitting in that line. I can just go on 2630 04:31:00,640 --> 04:31:09,520 the express lane. Um, I forgotten that it was ending. Uh, so I personally don't 2631 04:31:07,680 --> 04:31:12,479 have a problem with it continuing, but that's just me. 2632 04:31:10,640 --> 04:31:16,159 » Yeah. [laughter] But yeah, so I mainly my goal here was just to remind remind 2633 04:31:14,560 --> 04:31:19,760 the commissioners that we still do have these requirements, right, to evaluate 2634 04:31:18,000 --> 04:31:24,000 how all this is working together when Floyd Hill opens our hours and days 2635 04:31:22,239 --> 04:31:28,560 meeting the need and then really starting to work together through a CSS 2636 04:31:26,000 --> 04:31:32,120 process on what does the future look like beyond 2035. 2637 04:31:32,319 --> 04:31:37,840 » I I have a question about I mean this I think 2638 04:31:36,080 --> 04:31:42,479 But I I have an observation and I'm not sure that there's a question that can be 2639 04:31:39,359 --> 04:31:46,640 answered today that's sort of behind it. So we have two 1041s here. One is about 2640 04:31:44,640 --> 04:31:49,840 Floyd Hill. The other one was about expanding the operational hours of the P 2641 04:31:48,319 --> 04:31:54,239 period shoulder lane. It's the one that's about the operational hours of 2642 04:31:51,279 --> 04:32:00,080 the P period shoulder lane where we have this condition about renaming the not 2643 04:31:58,080 --> 04:32:03,600 renaming going back to the original name of the P period shoulder lane. And I 2644 04:32:01,760 --> 04:32:08,800 know there's been an exchange of letters and I know that this presentation is is 2645 04:32:05,760 --> 04:32:14,479 kind of intended to satisfy the board that there are other ways to satisfy the 2646 04:32:10,960 --> 04:32:18,640 intent of condition 9 beyond a rename. Am I am I summarizing accurately so far? 2647 04:32:16,720 --> 04:32:22,800 » That's my understanding as well. Yes. >> Um 2648 04:32:20,880 --> 04:32:27,760 and then what I hear in terms of the things that we can do to satisfy the 2649 04:32:25,040 --> 04:32:33,600 identified need that we agree on now are things that will start in 2028. 2650 04:32:30,720 --> 04:32:38,720 I wonder and I'm looking at this and I I noticed that um this 1041 says that the 2651 04:32:36,960 --> 04:32:44,000 name needs to be changed by June 1st, 2026. And I wonder I'm not trying my 2652 04:32:42,560 --> 04:32:48,960 intent here isn't to insist that you all go change the name right now. My 2653 04:32:46,159 --> 04:32:56,000 question is do you have ideas that can help you become compliant with the 2654 04:32:50,800 --> 04:33:00,880 intent of item 9 before 2028? I think you know in talking with again 2655 04:32:59,279 --> 04:33:04,719 this in talking with staff right about really what the intent is behind the 2656 04:33:02,640 --> 04:33:08,639 condition it was it was recognizing that there's safety concerns right and 2657 04:33:06,160 --> 04:33:12,799 there's operational strain in the county right with your emergency responder 2658 04:33:10,639 --> 04:33:18,320 services so I think we took the approach for this presentation on okay if the 2659 04:33:14,639 --> 04:33:22,320 focus if the if the the the intent really behind that condition is 2660 04:33:20,080 --> 04:33:27,840 recognizing that there is there's concerns about safety and impacts to the 2661 04:33:24,160 --> 04:33:32,480 county and how can we um agree on strategies to help address that? Um 2662 04:33:30,719 --> 04:33:36,480 that's where the focus was on signage and communication because we heard 2663 04:33:34,080 --> 04:33:40,959 expressed to us that that was really a focus for for the county was what can we 2664 04:33:39,119 --> 04:33:44,639 do with signage? What can we do with communications? 2665 04:33:42,959 --> 04:33:47,760 So I think we put some force some ideas on kind of those some of those 2666 04:33:45,680 --> 04:33:52,000 supplemental signs commissioner Marlin on you know can we do something with you 2667 04:33:50,240 --> 04:33:57,840 know signs at the start right that identify it as being a shoulder lane or 2668 04:33:55,279 --> 04:34:03,359 uh narrow right so I think we are trying to look for solutions that do that do 2669 04:34:00,959 --> 04:34:08,080 address those concerns and sort of partially meet the words on the page for 2670 04:34:06,160 --> 04:34:12,561 condition 9 with some of those supplemental signs. 2671 04:34:11,119 --> 04:34:16,561 » Thank you. And that you think that might happen before 2028? 2672 04:34:14,639 --> 04:34:19,039 » Um the supplemental signage I would have to I 2673 04:34:17,359 --> 04:34:22,959 » Yeah, I mean we need to figure out what that is and we're out there. 2674 04:34:20,719 --> 04:34:26,240 » Yeah, we're already working. Yeah, we're already working with FHWA. 2675 04:34:25,039 --> 04:34:29,760 » Um >> clearly that we just need a an approval 2676 04:34:28,000 --> 04:34:33,920 or a variance from them because these aren't sort of standard in MUTCD. But 2677 04:34:31,920 --> 04:34:38,160 that that isn't that's not a problem, right? We've already really worked with 2678 04:34:35,680 --> 04:34:41,279 FHWA. FHWA attended our meeting with county staff and that was something we 2679 04:34:39,520 --> 04:34:44,719 talked about. So, I think yeah, that's absolutely something we're working on 2680 04:34:42,799 --> 04:34:48,400 right now. >> Thank you. I look forward to, you know, 2681 04:34:46,959 --> 04:34:52,240 it could be helpful if you wanted to summarize what you intend to do before 2682 04:34:50,719 --> 04:34:54,959 2028 >> to [clears throat] 2683 04:34:53,199 --> 04:34:57,600 uh be compliant with item 9. >> Sure. 2684 04:34:55,279 --> 04:35:00,400 » Um that might be a nice next step as well. 2685 04:34:58,480 --> 04:35:05,920 » Um I I certainly would love for you to be compliant with the 1020 1041 before 2686 04:35:03,359 --> 04:35:09,840 2028. >> I would agree. 2687 04:35:08,080 --> 04:35:15,920 And I think I can summarize too, you know, also hearing from you all on that, 2688 04:35:12,719 --> 04:35:19,199 you know, 2027 timeline of how what does engagement from you all look like on a 2689 04:35:17,920 --> 04:35:23,359 communications plan because I think that's really where we have a lot of 2690 04:35:20,879 --> 04:35:27,600 opportunity to collaborate and what are we saying, you know, and making sure you 2691 04:35:25,439 --> 04:35:31,520 all feel like we're messaging specific concerns of the 2692 04:35:30,000 --> 04:35:35,520 county and how are we translating that to education, too. So I I think we can 2693 04:35:33,600 --> 04:35:40,240 include that as part of some of those supplemental signage is my intent is 2694 04:35:38,400 --> 04:35:44,719 really to engage you all in the communications piece in the leadup you 2695 04:35:42,561 --> 04:35:49,359 know and not do that in a vacuum. So I I we can highlight that as well but would 2696 04:35:46,480 --> 04:35:53,520 really love feedback from commissioners and your staff on how we can do that 2697 04:35:50,879 --> 04:35:56,639 most effectively targeting some of those existing touch points that exist on the 2698 04:35:55,119 --> 04:35:59,600 Floyd Hill project. So I think yeah happy to kind of put that put that in 2699 04:35:58,561 --> 04:36:06,199 writing. >> Okay. Thank you. Great. Any further 2700 04:36:03,199 --> 04:36:06,199 questions? 2701 04:36:06,480 --> 04:36:13,959 Great. Well, thank you. Oh, wait a minute. Joanne has her hand up. Okay, 2702 04:36:10,240 --> 04:36:13,959 you have to come up again. 2703 04:36:15,600 --> 04:36:22,639 Um, thanks. This is a really informative 2704 04:36:20,561 --> 04:36:29,760 discussion about how we're going to be managing as this Floyd Hill project 2705 04:36:26,799 --> 04:36:39,359 comes into operations. And on one of the earlier um the earliest um 2706 04:36:34,639 --> 04:36:45,760 slides we talked about I does it mention how yeah part-time shoulder lane express 2707 04:36:42,160 --> 04:36:54,799 lane how how will the um trucks semis be using the Floyd 2708 04:36:51,359 --> 04:36:59,520 Hill express lane? We had discussions at the tech team about this. 2709 04:36:57,039 --> 04:37:02,959 » So we Yes. And you're right and and I remember those discussions very well 2710 04:37:00,959 --> 04:37:09,520 because Floyd Hills in a very unique spot in the recent years a law was 2711 04:37:06,000 --> 04:37:16,160 passed that um doesn't allow trucks to be in the left lane. So then the left 2712 04:37:13,520 --> 04:37:21,920 lane technically on Floyd Hill would be the uh Floydill Express lane. And I 2713 04:37:19,359 --> 04:37:24,879 believe we landed on no trucks in the express lane for Floyd Hill. 2714 04:37:23,600 --> 04:37:27,760 » Yeah, that's what I thought we did too. I just wanted to see if that was 2715 04:37:26,639 --> 04:37:34,480 actually >> because I believe part of the tech team 2716 04:37:30,480 --> 04:37:39,680 discussion was if trucks are in the express lane on Floyd Hill coming into 2717 04:37:37,600 --> 04:37:45,119 the peak period shoulder lane, there would be very difficult transitions and 2718 04:37:42,639 --> 04:37:48,879 very unsafe. Is it what we thought? Okay. So that still is in place. It is. 2719 04:37:47,199 --> 04:37:50,879 » Yep. Okay. Keep it simple. And then when they get the no trucks sign. 2720 04:37:50,561 --> 04:37:54,240 » Yeah. >> Further up, um, they're like, "Oh, yeah. 2721 04:37:53,199 --> 04:37:57,840 Right. Nothing new." >> Is that a conditioner? I thought that 2722 04:37:55,840 --> 04:38:01,760 might have been a conditioner. 1041. >> I think it is. Yeah. 2723 04:38:00,160 --> 04:38:07,680 » Um, there's pavement markings and signage already in the east package. 2724 04:38:04,480 --> 04:38:12,561 » Oh, great. Um, and then I did have some questions about the uh reports that were 2725 04:38:11,279 --> 04:38:16,799 supposed to be submitted, the environmental reports for the peak 2726 04:38:14,639 --> 04:38:21,359 period shoulder lane, and that wasn't part of any of the discussion here 2727 04:38:18,639 --> 04:38:27,600 today, but I did read the staff report on it, and there were some things that 2728 04:38:23,760 --> 04:38:32,480 were not found in the submission for the peak period shoulder lane annual 2729 04:38:29,359 --> 04:38:36,959 reports. Correct. And I don't know if there's anybody at 2730 04:38:34,400 --> 04:38:40,799 the table here who was involved in the submission of those reports. 2731 04:38:39,119 --> 04:38:43,279 » Were there spec if you let me know what those specific items were. I can 2732 04:38:42,160 --> 04:38:49,279 certainly run them down. >> Yeah, I was just going to ask if Shredda 2733 04:38:47,439 --> 04:38:50,719 knows. She's online here and she looked through. But 2734 04:38:50,000 --> 04:38:53,199 » yeah, >> I'm happy to follow up if there was 2735 04:38:52,240 --> 04:38:56,160 something missing. >> Yeah. And there's 2736 04:38:54,320 --> 04:39:00,480 » you're talking about the categor the table the categorical exemption table. 2737 04:38:58,480 --> 04:39:06,561 » Right. Right. that that carried over from the first eastbound and westbound 2738 04:39:03,119 --> 04:39:09,760 resolutions. They were carried over into um uh 2546. 2739 04:39:09,279 --> 04:39:14,240 » Yeah. >> So, we should we should have seen them. 2740 04:39:12,879 --> 04:39:19,359 » They didn't show up. >> That's right, Garrett. Uh we don't have 2741 04:39:16,240 --> 04:39:25,119 the CATX table that was mentioned in the previous permits. Um in addition to a 2742 04:39:22,639 --> 04:39:30,080 couple of them, uh sorry, I'll just quickly look into the table and see 2743 04:39:26,639 --> 04:39:36,879 what's missing. Um we don't have a couple of dashboards 2744 04:39:33,680 --> 04:39:40,718 that we are missing and also the cadex table. 2745 04:39:38,560 --> 04:39:45,280 Um yeah I think those are the two main 2746 04:39:42,320 --> 04:39:50,400 items that we are still looking to receive. 2747 04:39:47,760 --> 04:39:53,200 » So we'll work to identify what we might be missing. 2748 04:39:51,120 --> 04:39:56,958 » Please do. Yeah we can follow. There's a ton there's as you know there's a ton of 2749 04:39:54,878 --> 04:40:00,560 reporting information and >> and I are new to this so we're trying to 2750 04:39:59,040 --> 04:40:03,520 play catch-up and figure out what was done in the past and with your help Joan 2751 04:40:02,718 --> 04:40:09,920 I think we'll get >> and I know I know this is 2752 04:40:05,840 --> 04:40:15,760 » the size of the spreadsheet is horrific >> um but there were and then there was one 2753 04:40:12,560 --> 04:40:25,120 other thing um that on the annual reports that CTIO or HPTE or C dot sends 2754 04:40:22,320 --> 04:40:28,638 to FHWA about the operations of the PPSL. 2755 04:40:26,798 --> 04:40:33,680 » The county was supposed to have received copies. We did provide a copy of that. 2756 04:40:31,360 --> 04:40:40,480 » Okay. And and were there a series of years like because I think the PPSL 2757 04:40:38,080 --> 04:40:44,080 » uh the first one started operations in what 20 2758 04:40:42,560 --> 04:40:47,680 » 17 or something? >> Late 2015. 2759 04:40:45,360 --> 04:40:50,560 » We can provide the historical all of the reports. Okay. 2760 04:40:48,878 --> 04:40:55,360 » I was looking for those. I couldn't find them. I couldn't find them on the C dot 2761 04:40:52,320 --> 04:40:58,958 website and I had a file a freedom of information 2762 04:40:56,080 --> 04:41:03,168 » act request. It was bizarre. >> Well, with accessibility where we've had 2763 04:41:01,280 --> 04:41:06,878 to take down a lot of old data to [laughter] and we hear you same 2764 04:41:05,040 --> 04:41:11,200 » here. So, >> okay, Max, [clears throat] please just 2765 04:41:09,520 --> 04:41:13,440 » email me. We can send >> email you directly. 2766 04:41:12,080 --> 04:41:16,798 » Yes, of course. I can help you with that. I have somebody that manages all 2767 04:41:15,120 --> 04:41:20,160 of our website and what's put up there. We also have a new operations manager, 2768 04:41:18,400 --> 04:41:24,480 Alex, that is taking over some of this. So maybe please let me know if we missed 2769 04:41:22,718 --> 04:41:28,080 something. We did send you last year's report, but I didn't send you prior 2770 04:41:26,718 --> 04:41:31,440 years, but if that's helpful, I can absolutely send you 2771 04:41:29,680 --> 04:41:33,920 » historical. It's an annual report that we've been producing. So I'm happy to 2772 04:41:33,120 --> 04:41:40,080 provide those. >> Great. Because I think I think progress 2773 04:41:36,878 --> 04:41:44,080 uh of of whatever traffic management, traffic improvement, 2774 04:41:41,680 --> 04:41:46,080 » yeartoyear is is important for us to see. 2775 04:41:44,480 --> 04:41:49,120 » Absolutely. And I think Alex um discussed maybe some trends that we were 2776 04:41:47,760 --> 04:41:52,878 seeing and kind of some [clears throat] takeaways from the port report but you 2777 04:41:51,440 --> 04:41:55,760 know happy to bring that also to the commission and I think they they 2778 04:41:54,320 --> 04:41:59,520 presented as well at the collaborative effort meeting in April on some trends 2779 04:41:58,320 --> 04:42:04,320 and things that we were seeing. I think there's been a lot of interest in winter 2780 04:42:02,400 --> 04:42:09,200 season and how construction has impacted the lanes. So happy to happy to also 2781 04:42:07,040 --> 04:42:14,798 provide those historical reports. Yeah, a lot is not up pointing right now. 2782 04:42:11,520 --> 04:42:19,360 » Yeah. and our our records just in full transparency at the county are a little 2783 04:42:16,480 --> 04:42:22,160 spotty cases. So I've done my best but yeah 2784 04:42:20,080 --> 04:42:25,200 » catch back up. Absolutely. So but yeah let me know on the cadex table maybe 2785 04:42:23,840 --> 04:42:29,638 that maybe I'm just not familiar with that. Okay and then whatever dash 2786 04:42:29,840 --> 04:42:39,360 » let's connect on that get what you need. And then specifically, there is one 2787 04:42:34,958 --> 04:42:43,200 problem area that just in my traveling back and forth from where I live to 2788 04:42:41,120 --> 04:42:51,120 where I visit, hang out, I've seen an issue that um 2789 04:42:48,000 --> 04:42:57,040 that is supposed to be reported on in in these um yearly uh reports and that is 2790 04:42:54,878 --> 04:43:02,240 the sedimentation basins that were constructed with the peak cleared 2791 04:42:59,200 --> 04:43:07,760 shoulder lanes. And there is one in the DLD neighborhood that is really 2792 04:43:05,120 --> 04:43:15,360 attracting attention of people who live near it. Most of those sedimentation 2793 04:43:09,840 --> 04:43:21,440 basins are not where people live and so nobody really pays attention. But the 2794 04:43:18,320 --> 04:43:27,440 one that is near a ne it's in a neighborhood is in Len and it's not 2795 04:43:24,480 --> 04:43:32,638 functioning and it looks like a swamp and it's a trash collecting area and it 2796 04:43:30,718 --> 04:43:37,680 has never I don't know when it was clean if it was ever cleaned. It's supposed to 2797 04:43:34,000 --> 04:43:43,680 be cleaned. Never cleaned. And although this summer has not been an 2798 04:43:39,600 --> 04:43:50,560 issue um with mosquitoes until maybe now, I don't know, maybe just have shown 2799 04:43:45,840 --> 04:43:55,920 up, but in the past it was a mosquito breeding area and so the county took 2800 04:43:53,200 --> 04:44:00,638 care of it without talking about it. But it's at the point now where I don't 2801 04:43:58,080 --> 04:44:06,560 think the county can take care of what's going on with that sedimentation basin. 2802 04:44:03,280 --> 04:44:11,520 And I think that um either it needs to be thoroughly cleaned and the road that 2803 04:44:09,760 --> 04:44:18,718 is used to approach it needs to be repaired or redesigned or some something 2804 04:44:17,200 --> 04:44:21,280 needs to be done because the people who live there shouldn't have to deal with 2805 04:44:20,958 --> 04:44:24,560 that. >> Yeah, we we've been aware of that. It's 2806 04:44:22,878 --> 04:44:29,520 an ongoing issue and we we've talked with the the property owner next door 2807 04:44:27,280 --> 04:44:33,360 and um are definitely aware of the issue, but it's severely eroding and 2808 04:44:31,600 --> 04:44:37,200 undercutting the road now. So, it's going to have to be like an emergency 2809 04:44:35,280 --> 04:44:42,080 maintenance repair at some point. >> Health safety and not environmentally 2810 04:44:40,798 --> 04:44:45,200 accomplishing what it's supposed to accomplish. 2811 04:44:42,638 --> 04:44:49,280 » It's a it it's been ongoing for a while. So, we're definitely aware of it, but it 2812 04:44:47,200 --> 04:44:52,080 has been cleaned out and I was I didn't realize that the county had done that or 2813 04:44:51,280 --> 04:44:55,600 maybe it's just >> I don't know the county cleaned it out. 2814 04:44:53,120 --> 04:44:58,878 I used to toss mosquito donuts to keep the mosquito. I know that's the extent 2815 04:44:58,240 --> 04:45:02,560 of a >> I don't know if it's been not as much of 2816 04:45:00,718 --> 04:45:05,760 an issue this year because of the lack of snow and rain that we've had, but 2817 04:45:04,320 --> 04:45:10,878 we're definitely tracking it. >> Oh, but but if you if you need pictures, 2818 04:45:08,080 --> 04:45:14,320 I've got pictures of of the condition and it's that's not the way it was 2819 04:45:12,958 --> 04:45:19,760 designed to function. >> It's it's definitely not functioning 2820 04:45:15,920 --> 04:45:22,320 properly. I will agree. [laughter] >> Thank you. 2821 04:45:20,560 --> 04:45:26,320 » Hey, thank you. comments 2822 04:45:23,840 --> 04:45:29,638 and and thank you all. This has been really great. 2823 04:45:31,760 --> 04:45:37,600 » Appreciate the opportunity to come. >> Oh, well with you all. 2824 04:45:35,040 --> 04:45:40,920 » We do appreciate it. Thank you. >> Thank you, Commissioners. 2825 04:45:44,080 --> 04:45:52,320 » Stacia Maddie did a good job corelling us all for the um congressman's tour. 2826 04:45:50,400 --> 04:45:54,958 » Yes. sad to miss it, but I'm glad that we finally made that work out. 2827 04:45:54,240 --> 04:45:59,160 » Yes. Yes. >> Good. Thank you. 2828 04:45:56,000 --> 04:45:59,160 » Thank you. 2829 04:45:59,520 --> 04:46:07,840 » All right. Um, we will take a short break for lunch. 2830 04:46:06,718 --> 04:46:11,360 » That will depend. >> Say what? 2831 04:46:09,680 --> 04:46:14,000 » 8 minutes. >> I'm going to suggest maybe just a five 2832 04:46:13,120 --> 04:46:18,160 minute break and >> All right, fine. 2833 04:46:15,200 --> 04:46:22,798 » As long as >> or do whatever. Oh, that's so obnoxious. 2834 04:46:20,798 --> 04:46:26,320 But I'll I'll eat fast. Okay, we're going on a fivem minute break. Thank 2835 04:46:24,320 --> 04:46:29,560 you. >> That button 2836 04:56:54,160 --> 04:57:03,040 Creek Board of Transitioners is back in session. Uh we will be serving as the 2837 04:57:00,080 --> 04:57:06,240 board of equalization for the uh next subject. Uh assessor Donna G. 2838 04:57:05,680 --> 04:57:12,878 » Hello. >> Hello. So every year the assessor um 2839 04:57:09,600 --> 04:57:16,958 files the assessment abstract of assessment with the suite and then 2840 04:57:15,440 --> 04:57:23,360 provides a report with you of our assessed value. Um 2841 04:57:20,480 --> 04:57:30,240 and I have provided you a copy of that abstract of assessment um and added a 2842 04:57:26,400 --> 04:57:39,920 breakdown by um your subasses and your classes. Um and the taxable local value 2843 04:57:35,760 --> 04:57:53,240 for your local governments is 391 173 240 with an exempt value of 47 286 2844 04:57:46,718 --> 04:57:53,240 460 for overall value of 438459700. 2845 04:57:54,320 --> 04:57:57,280 » Did you direct me to the page for reference? 2846 04:57:56,000 --> 04:58:02,320 » It's the very last page. >> Thank you. 2847 04:57:58,080 --> 04:58:02,320 » Correct. I'll wait till you get there. 2848 04:58:03,520 --> 04:58:11,520 Is this person? >> I'm sorry. Do I need to No, not yet. 2849 04:58:08,718 --> 04:58:14,520 » Not yet. Not yet. >> Okay. 2850 04:58:19,680 --> 04:58:26,798 » Okay. So, taxable local includes residences and business 2851 04:58:23,760 --> 04:58:29,520 » vacant and our personal property state assessed 2852 04:58:28,560 --> 04:58:33,040 and commercial. >> Thank you. Okay. 2853 04:58:30,638 --> 04:58:36,718 » What changes do we how is this changed from the last one? Is there is there a 2854 04:58:34,878 --> 04:58:40,400 change in revenue coming from this? >> Um it is an increase from um the 2855 04:58:39,280 --> 04:58:41,600 previous year. Is that what you're asking? 2856 04:58:40,958 --> 04:58:46,080 » Yeah. From >> Okay. And most of that is from the state 2857 04:58:44,000 --> 04:58:50,320 assess since we are in an intervening year. Our values shouldn't change except 2858 04:58:48,638 --> 04:58:53,440 for new construction is what you want to look at in this report 2859 04:58:51,760 --> 04:58:57,360 » and shifting. Is this the year where those shifting values? 2860 04:58:55,520 --> 04:58:58,560 » Those rates are changing this year, aren't they? 2861 04:58:57,920 --> 04:59:04,000 » They did. >> Yeah. So for the school it went down up 2862 04:59:00,958 --> 04:59:08,240 to 6.8 or not for the local government 6.8 schools remaining at 7.05 from the 2863 04:59:07,280 --> 04:59:13,600 previous year >> and commercial went down 2864 04:59:09,760 --> 04:59:18,240 » and commercial went down from 27 to 26%. >> So I think not to step on it but but 2865 04:59:16,878 --> 04:59:23,120 because we are overexposed to residential that change was beneficial 2866 04:59:20,878 --> 04:59:25,600 to our assessed value >> or made our assessed value go up. I 2867 04:59:24,638 --> 04:59:29,040 don't know if I would call that beneficial. Um whereas other counties 2868 04:59:27,680 --> 04:59:33,280 that are overexposed to commercial, there's one down. 2869 04:59:31,440 --> 04:59:37,200 » We have a do we have a sense of just like estimated revenues from property 2870 04:59:36,320 --> 04:59:40,160 tax next year? >> So we'll hit the cap again and now we're 2871 04:59:38,560 --> 04:59:44,160 going to hit a cap a third time because that rolling cap that 10.5% still 2872 04:59:43,280 --> 04:59:46,480 applies. >> So we [clears throat] hit the cap last 2873 04:59:45,200 --> 04:59:50,878 year, we're going to hit the cap again this year, especially with this. So now 2874 04:59:49,440 --> 04:59:55,440 we're going to have to provide a tax credit as a mill like we did last year. 2875 04:59:53,760 --> 05:00:00,000 And then we'll potentially hit the cap again. Now the third year 2876 04:59:57,680 --> 05:00:04,320 » I we thought when we hit it one year then the next year was good. 2877 05:00:01,440 --> 05:00:09,600 » 10.5% rolling cap. So for some counties where their assessed value went down the 2878 05:00:06,560 --> 05:00:14,240 cap doesn't apply. But ours went up. So because it's a rolling cap. 2879 05:00:11,600 --> 05:00:17,200 » It's 10.5% over the last two years. So we're going to hit that 2880 05:00:15,120 --> 05:00:20,160 » and we get no benefit for being a teeny tiny little county. 2881 05:00:18,560 --> 05:00:22,878 » We're hit the cap three times probably. No. 2882 05:00:21,280 --> 05:00:25,760 » At the end of it, it'll net up probably another half a million dollars for 2883 05:00:24,080 --> 05:00:30,080 general fun. Okay. >> 5.25% growth. Yes. If we hit the cap, 2884 05:00:28,240 --> 05:00:33,520 that's how much I look at last year's budget number. Exactly. 2885 05:00:31,200 --> 05:00:36,560 » I say times 5.25%. >> All right. 2886 05:00:34,400 --> 05:00:42,638 » So, I'm imagining when people get the this this news, they're going to think 2887 05:00:38,160 --> 05:00:48,080 that we did this the county. >> No. The state decided to lower the 2888 05:00:44,878 --> 05:00:53,440 commercial assessment rates, commercial, agriculture, everything that was at 28%. 2889 05:00:51,760 --> 05:00:56,000 And they paid for that by raising the residential 2890 05:00:54,878 --> 05:01:00,000 Wow. >> So, we don't have any control over that. 2891 05:00:57,840 --> 05:01:06,638 We netted out as a winner. Some people or as someone who's went up the some 2892 05:01:03,520 --> 05:01:10,878 people's prices went down a lot. I mean, if they're very heavily exposed to 2893 05:01:08,240 --> 05:01:16,878 commercial people and but again, this is why you have we have to be careful about 2894 05:01:12,560 --> 05:01:19,840 making broad tax directives when it come or like assumptions about property tax 2895 05:01:18,560 --> 05:01:22,560 because everybody's situation's different, right? Some people's are 2896 05:01:21,360 --> 05:01:25,840 going to go down, some people are going to go up. very little of that is 2897 05:01:24,400 --> 05:01:27,760 actually in our control. So, >> all right. 2898 05:01:27,040 --> 05:01:29,120 » Thank you. >> Yeah. 2899 05:01:28,320 --> 05:01:32,400 » Um >> Okay. Thank you. Yep. So, 2900 05:01:30,652 --> 05:01:40,360 [clears throat] for the taxable school, it was 4173 2901 05:01:35,040 --> 05:01:40,360 280. The exempt school was 46511850. 2902 05:01:40,878 --> 05:01:47,040 For a total school of 463, 685130 2903 05:01:45,680 --> 05:01:50,360 and that was an increase from the previous year. 2904 05:01:51,600 --> 05:02:00,560 Okay. Thank you, Assessor G. Del. 2905 05:01:57,280 --> 05:02:03,200 » Okay. Um, moving on the board. >> Oh, sorry. 2906 05:02:01,680 --> 05:02:07,120 » May I have a motion? >> I'll make a motion for the approval and 2907 05:02:04,878 --> 05:02:13,560 acceptance abstract of assessment. 2908 05:02:09,920 --> 05:02:13,560 » Any further discussion? 2909 05:02:13,680 --> 05:02:19,360 Hearing none. All in favor? >> I. 2910 05:02:16,718 --> 05:02:22,638 » Motion's approved. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Uh moving on, the board of 2911 05:02:20,958 --> 05:02:27,920 county commissioners uh will be returning acting as the board of county 2912 05:02:24,878 --> 05:02:36,958 commissioners uh for action items. First on the agenda is 2913 05:02:31,280 --> 05:02:42,958 hearing with Alita uh TRU uh case number 26-41. 2914 05:02:39,440 --> 05:02:49,040 » Great. Okay. And this one's um not going to be a refund of taxes. Mobile homes 2915 05:02:45,520 --> 05:02:54,798 under $28,000 are tax exempt. We are correcting the characteristics on this 2916 05:02:51,440 --> 05:03:00,160 one. We're changing the condition from average to fair and the mobile home is 2917 05:02:57,920 --> 05:03:04,798 in the process of getting demoed. >> Oh, okay. Uh, do we need a motion to 2918 05:03:04,080 --> 05:03:09,680 approve that? >> Yes. 2919 05:03:05,840 --> 05:03:12,240 » I may I have a motion? >> Do we want to have any discussion on it 2920 05:03:11,600 --> 05:03:14,560 first or >> No, we're going to have a motion. We're 2921 05:03:13,600 --> 05:03:20,000 going to have a second. Then we're going to have discussion. 2922 05:03:17,120 --> 05:03:23,520 » Okay. I will make a motion for the sessor's recommendation to approve 2923 05:03:21,600 --> 05:03:29,600 petitioner's request for refund of taxes. No refund will be issued as the 2924 05:03:27,040 --> 05:03:34,320 account is tax exempt. May I have a second? 2925 05:03:33,040 --> 05:03:43,320 » Second. >> Uh any discussion? 2926 05:03:37,920 --> 05:03:43,320 Hearing none in favor. Sorry. 2927 05:03:49,680 --> 05:03:54,280 I was still looking at the abstract of the 2928 05:04:03,680 --> 05:04:10,400 know that this is being demoed. >> Would you say you was moving it to poor 2929 05:04:09,280 --> 05:04:15,440 or to fair? To >> fair to fair. 2930 05:04:11,200 --> 05:04:20,560 » They're the same value also. Okay. And it's being demoed, right? 2931 05:04:16,718 --> 05:04:24,638 » And it's being demoed. Okay. >> Okay. Thank you. [clears throat] 2932 05:04:22,400 --> 05:04:26,560 » Okay. Uh, all in favor? >> I 2933 05:04:25,040 --> 05:04:32,400 » I motion passes. Thank you. Moving on to 2934 05:04:29,520 --> 05:04:35,400 uh Michael uh Dailyaly, case number 26-09. 2935 05:04:35,760 --> 05:04:45,760 » Okay. Um, this one is a request for abatement for 2024 and 2025. 2936 05:04:43,360 --> 05:04:50,878 the property according to state statute if the property owner protested the 2937 05:04:47,600 --> 05:04:56,320 value they cannot do an abatement. So for 2023 and 2025 2938 05:04:54,000 --> 05:05:02,240 um we did the properties were protested. So we 2939 05:04:59,360 --> 05:05:08,160 already went through the process of um denying the requests and then um it 2940 05:05:05,680 --> 05:05:14,000 was not taken to the next level which is the CBOE. So they un they are unable to 2941 05:05:11,440 --> 05:05:17,520 do an abatement request. So it was denied. 2942 05:05:14,798 --> 05:05:21,280 » Is Mr. Daly here or >> Yes, he is. 2943 05:05:19,920 --> 05:05:26,560 » I need to make sure that he has an opportunity to speak. 2944 05:05:24,958 --> 05:05:31,760 » I have included in the packet the comparable sales for 25 and 26 2945 05:05:29,440 --> 05:05:37,240 supporting the value. We did make an adjustment um in 2020. 2946 05:05:38,000 --> 05:05:50,160 Which one is this one? And for 2025, we adjusted the value from 795910 2947 05:05:45,600 --> 05:05:59,080 down to 782 880 based on those comps. And then the supports the comps for 2948 05:05:53,920 --> 05:05:59,080 the next year, which is the 2949 05:06:03,840 --> 05:06:13,680 Hey, there it is. the 2020 the 2023 and 2024 values were corrected 2950 05:06:10,638 --> 05:06:18,680 and then the 25 and 26 the comps did support the value with no adjustment. 2951 05:06:20,400 --> 05:06:25,160 » Thank you. >> Thank you Colton. 2952 05:06:26,400 --> 05:06:34,878 » Okay, are we ready for um Mr. daily to come up 2953 05:06:31,840 --> 05:06:39,760 to join us and um just uh introduce yourself. 2954 05:06:36,878 --> 05:06:44,718 » Hi, I'm Michael Bailey. Lived in the county for about 30 years. 2955 05:06:42,798 --> 05:06:49,840 Believe my daughter went to school with your son. [laughter] 2956 05:06:46,160 --> 05:06:55,120 » Yeah. Oh. Oh, sure. Yes. >> Uh first off, I wanted to thank Miss G 2957 05:06:53,120 --> 05:07:00,638 for the work that she's doing. Thank you. I know it's a difficult job. Uh, 2958 05:06:58,400 --> 05:07:06,160 and I certainly appreciate it being done. I understand the compact between 2959 05:07:02,718 --> 05:07:12,080 us citizens and the government. Uh, so this is not just some silly little tax 2960 05:07:09,040 --> 05:07:16,878 protest. Um, it's for me it's kind of a tale of two different uh appraisals. 2961 05:07:15,440 --> 05:07:21,760 Um, I got the appraisal [clears throat] from the county and was a little 2962 05:07:19,040 --> 05:07:28,000 shocked. It seemed a little bit high. Um, and I had to recently get a new 2963 05:07:24,480 --> 05:07:34,400 mortgage uh for the house. And in part of that mortgage, I was 2964 05:07:31,120 --> 05:07:40,798 supposed to get an appraisal. So, I paid uh money to have somebody come out to my 2965 05:07:37,760 --> 05:07:45,760 house and spend a good hour and a half on my house, under my house, in my 2966 05:07:43,360 --> 05:07:52,080 house, taking measurements, asking questions, etc. And I have given a copy 2967 05:07:49,680 --> 05:07:56,920 of that appraisal to Miss G. And that appraisal came in at, I believe, 675. 2968 05:07:57,680 --> 05:08:10,320 which is more than $100,000 less than the county values it. And so I'm here 2969 05:08:06,240 --> 05:08:16,080 today to question the appraisal and hope that my particular appraisal that I pay 2970 05:08:13,840 --> 05:08:22,652 for would do me some good. >> Right. I may I of course. Okay. So by 2971 05:08:20,160 --> 05:08:28,480 state statute we [clears throat] our values are two years 2972 05:08:24,160 --> 05:08:34,000 in a rear. So what for the 23 and 24 values those were based on sales that 2973 05:08:30,878 --> 05:08:38,958 occurred July 1st 2020 through June 30th 2022 2974 05:08:35,520 --> 05:08:46,560 and then the 25 and 26 values were based on sales that occurred um July 1st 2022 2975 05:08:43,040 --> 05:08:51,040 through June 30th 2024. So, we'll do reassessment in 2027 2976 05:08:49,360 --> 05:08:57,600 and that'll be based on sales that occurred July 1st, 2024 2977 05:08:54,240 --> 05:09:04,160 through June 30th, 2026. That's when we can consider the appraisal. 2978 05:09:01,120 --> 05:09:09,680 » Um, I didn't speak with you directly. I came into the office to file that 2979 05:09:06,160 --> 05:09:15,040 protest. I spoke with Mr. View, uh, one of my, uh, anyway. Um, and I believe you 2980 05:09:13,360 --> 05:09:19,840 overheard that conversation and mentioned that I could use that 2981 05:09:16,798 --> 05:09:25,520 appraisal. And so you're saying now I have to wait to use the appraisal or 2982 05:09:22,638 --> 05:09:31,760 » it it can it has to be considered in the period that our valuation is in. So the 2983 05:09:28,160 --> 05:09:35,520 appraisal was done July 28, 2025, which would be used in our next assessment 2984 05:09:33,840 --> 05:09:38,320 period. >> So we could consider it in that period. 2985 05:09:37,680 --> 05:09:41,320 All right. >> Yes. 2986 05:09:42,080 --> 05:09:49,760 Um, [clears throat] so again, a discrepancy over $100,000. 2987 05:09:48,000 --> 05:09:52,560 Can you explain how >> Mhm. 2988 05:09:50,718 --> 05:09:58,240 » And if you want to go to the comparable sales, um, there is a set one for 23 and 2989 05:09:57,280 --> 05:10:02,958 24. >> And my assessor 2990 05:10:00,480 --> 05:10:10,240 did the exact same thing except he included a lot more sales. 2991 05:10:06,638 --> 05:10:15,600 » Right. We include we do a mass appraisal in our office. We don't do sideby-side 2992 05:10:12,718 --> 05:10:19,680 appraisals. So we do the mass appraisal based on sales that occurred with 2993 05:10:17,440 --> 05:10:24,878 similar characteristics. Then when you do an abatement or protest, we narrow 2994 05:10:22,958 --> 05:10:32,160 down those sales to more comparable properties. So for the 203 2995 05:10:29,760 --> 05:10:38,718 and 20 4 sales 2996 05:10:35,040 --> 05:10:42,560 where we did the adjustment from 795910 to 782880. 2997 05:10:40,958 --> 05:10:46,718 I do have them dated on the top right corner so you can just tell which one is 2998 05:10:45,040 --> 05:10:51,680 which which years. The value of his property is 782880. 2999 05:10:49,120 --> 05:10:56,958 Then we had a sale that came in right at 782880. 3000 05:10:53,280 --> 05:11:01,680 This is for the 25 and 26. And then um we had a second sale that came in at 3001 05:10:59,280 --> 05:11:09,920 873,928 and a third sale that came in at 902160. 3002 05:11:06,000 --> 05:11:12,718 Is it is it reasonable just to I mean I'm just going to try to say this 3003 05:11:11,200 --> 05:11:19,200 concisely in a way that I can understand it. We have an appraisal that estimates 3004 05:11:15,440 --> 05:11:23,760 a value in March of 2026. These taxes are based on what we 3005 05:11:22,080 --> 05:11:28,320 estimated the property to be worth at worth some time before that. 3006 05:11:26,080 --> 05:11:34,320 » So when you're looking at the 2025 and 2026 one, those are sales that occurred 3007 05:11:31,600 --> 05:11:42,320 um July 1st, 2022 through June 30th, 2024. And the appraisal that um Mr. Deli 3008 05:11:38,080 --> 05:11:44,000 provided me was as of July 26, 2025. >> Oh, 3009 05:11:42,638 --> 05:11:47,120 » which would be our next appraisal period. 3010 05:11:44,718 --> 05:11:52,560 » Okay. I thought I I misread the stamp that was 3011 05:11:48,638 --> 05:11:57,920 on that document. Anyway, um >> and then there's also the 23 and 24 3012 05:11:55,120 --> 05:12:03,600 comparables, which was again sales that occurred July 1st, 2020 through June 3013 05:12:00,480 --> 05:12:07,200 30th, 2022. And if you want to look at page two of those comparables, 3014 05:12:06,666 --> 05:12:12,400 [clears throat] um that the value is supported at 3015 05:12:09,440 --> 05:12:17,680 $531,530 is the value. And then we had one come 3016 05:12:14,718 --> 05:12:23,200 in at 711870, one come in at 619240 3017 05:12:20,400 --> 05:12:28,560 and one that came in at 587120. So they are all above 3018 05:12:26,400 --> 05:12:30,798 his price for his >> home. 3019 05:12:29,440 --> 05:12:36,240 » So So just just a point of clarification. Um his home is 2021 3020 05:12:34,320 --> 05:12:42,878 Beaver Lane. >> 221 Beaver. Yes. 3021 05:12:37,760 --> 05:12:49,360 » 221. Sorry. Um, and that one comes in at 531. 530. That is correct. 3022 05:12:46,878 --> 05:12:58,878 » So I I don't understand how it came in at over 700. 3023 05:12:53,520 --> 05:13:05,840 That the 700 one was for 25 and 26 and the ones that you're seeing for 23 and 3024 05:13:02,320 --> 05:13:10,400 24, they had that $55,000 adjustment. >> Oh, right. Okay. Okay. And there is no 3025 05:13:07,920 --> 05:13:12,878 adjustment for 25. >> And 3026 05:13:10,718 --> 05:13:19,120 » there will be an adjustment for 26. >> Prices have gone up since. 3027 05:13:14,718 --> 05:13:24,240 » Correct. We saw about a 30% increase. >> Okay. So, I don't want to look at the 3028 05:13:21,760 --> 05:13:28,638 one for 531. If I keep scrolling down, will I find a 3029 05:13:26,718 --> 05:13:34,638 different one or >> do you mean comparable sales? Um 3030 05:13:33,120 --> 05:13:38,480 when >> yes you you want to go down from there I 3031 05:13:37,760 --> 05:13:42,320 think. >> Yeah. Yeah. 3032 05:13:39,840 --> 05:13:48,718 » Uh if you look at the right there that's 2023 2024. 3033 05:13:44,080 --> 05:13:52,320 » Okay. So am I looking at 20 23 24 or 24 25 26. 3034 05:13:50,080 --> 05:13:57,680 » Um the one I just talked to you about the 531 530 value. That one is for 23 3035 05:13:56,560 --> 05:14:00,400 and 24. >> Okay. And that included the $55,000 3036 05:13:59,920 --> 05:14:04,320 adjust. >> Okay. And was that one um taxed 3037 05:14:03,280 --> 05:14:07,280 appropriately? >> Correct. No, we did adjust that one. 3038 05:14:06,240 --> 05:14:11,920 » Oh, you adjusted it down. >> Adjusted that one. 3039 05:14:08,320 --> 05:14:17,760 » Okay. All right. So, you're not um challenging that one. Correct. 3040 05:14:14,878 --> 05:14:20,878 » He's challenging 24 and 25. >> Okay. 3041 05:14:18,160 --> 05:14:26,638 » In which both were protested. And so like for the purposes of this 3042 05:14:23,680 --> 05:14:33,680 board's legal limitations and duties, um we cannot 3043 05:14:30,400 --> 05:14:36,878 consider an abatement request if a protest was already issued and it was 3044 05:14:36,000 --> 05:14:38,240 not appealed to the board of equalization. Right. 3045 05:14:37,680 --> 05:14:42,480 » That is correct. >> And so legally speaking, this board's 3046 05:14:40,160 --> 05:14:44,320 only option is to deny this request. Is that correct? 3047 05:14:43,520 --> 05:14:46,000 » Unfortunately. >> Okay. 3048 05:14:44,878 --> 05:14:53,520 » Okay. >> I don't have any further questions. Um, 3049 05:14:48,240 --> 05:14:58,160 I I I am interested to see what happens uh moving forward with the value of this 3050 05:14:56,320 --> 05:15:03,920 property because it's it's concerning to see um 3051 05:15:01,120 --> 05:15:05,440 um this most recent information. But I don't think that that's relevant to this 3052 05:15:05,040 --> 05:15:12,798 hearing. >> But but that you can come back to us and 3053 05:15:09,120 --> 05:15:19,680 challenge next year. He can challenge 26 doing 27 but it the result would be the 3054 05:15:15,840 --> 05:15:22,560 same because the values are set for 22year periods. 3055 05:15:21,360 --> 05:15:28,718 » Okay. So the comparable >> when can he next legally challenge this 3056 05:15:25,120 --> 05:15:32,080 » um he can do 27 when we do reassessment he can do a protest in 27. Okay. 3057 05:15:31,040 --> 05:15:34,958 » Send out notice of evaluation. >> Okay. So that's what I meant by next 3058 05:15:33,680 --> 05:15:38,718 year. >> Correct. 3059 05:15:36,320 --> 05:15:45,600 protest it >> and he'll we'll see the value go down 3060 05:15:41,440 --> 05:15:48,718 because in 26 with taxes due in 27 we are having to give adjustments again 3061 05:15:48,320 --> 05:15:51,840 which is >> because of the state 3062 05:15:49,840 --> 05:15:57,882 » correct which is 10% off the first $700,000 of value. So he's going to 3063 05:15:54,160 --> 05:16:02,400 automatically see a decrease of the [clears throat] off the six. What is it 3064 05:15:59,680 --> 05:16:06,638 the value 782? >> I I want to make sure I because I think 3065 05:16:04,000 --> 05:16:12,000 I just got confused again. But okay. Um >> there is no other lane to protest tax 3066 05:16:08,878 --> 05:16:15,600 bills delivered for 25 or 26. Right. >> Right. Because he didn't go to the BOE. 3067 05:16:13,760 --> 05:16:20,240 » Right. Okay. So >> he would have had to go to the BOE. 3068 05:16:17,200 --> 05:16:26,320 » One way to answer your question is never >> for for that particular protest. 3069 05:16:22,638 --> 05:16:30,560 However, if he objects to the valuation this year for his taxes in 2027, he can 3070 05:16:29,680 --> 05:16:35,280 protest that >> if result will be the same 3071 05:16:33,760 --> 05:16:39,920 » meaning by that >> because there was a protest done and the 3072 05:16:37,360 --> 05:16:43,440 values don't change from the 2-year period. So, we comparable sales will 3073 05:16:42,878 --> 05:16:49,760 still stand. >> Okay. So, but you're saying okay so the 3074 05:16:46,958 --> 05:16:52,638 what his you already answered this but I just want to clarify that I'm saying 3075 05:16:50,958 --> 05:16:57,798 this right. M >> if he protests the value in 2027 3076 05:16:58,000 --> 05:17:03,840 um that the valuation 2027 for the 2028 tax year 3077 05:17:02,160 --> 05:17:05,120 » that he can protest. >> That is correct. 3078 05:17:04,718 --> 05:17:09,120 » Okay. >> He'll get a notice of valuation on um 3079 05:17:08,080 --> 05:17:15,040 May 1st. >> Okay. So, so what he needs to do is when 3080 05:17:12,000 --> 05:17:20,480 he gets that next year, that's when he needs to not just send 3081 05:17:18,878 --> 05:17:25,440 you a letter and say I think it's wrong. If you deny that then he has to appeal 3082 05:17:23,760 --> 05:17:27,200 to the board of equalization. >> That's correct. 3083 05:17:26,400 --> 05:17:29,280 » Okay. >> You have to go through the whole entire 3084 05:17:28,560 --> 05:17:32,320 process. >> Okay. 3085 05:17:30,878 --> 05:17:33,440 Do do you understand? >> Yes. 3086 05:17:32,878 --> 05:17:38,000 » Okay. >> Am I understanding too that you've 3087 05:17:35,840 --> 05:17:41,360 already kind of made the decision that I didn't really need to show up that this 3088 05:17:39,920 --> 05:17:46,240 didn't do any good? >> And I had mentioned that to you. 3089 05:17:43,680 --> 05:17:49,280 » You never said a word to me about you don't really need to show up. You said 3090 05:17:48,000 --> 05:17:53,120 if you want to show up, >> you can show up, but I had to explain 3091 05:17:51,440 --> 05:17:57,040 that it was going to be denied. >> Did you didn't say anything about Did 3092 05:17:55,280 --> 05:18:00,958 you write it in an email? Do you have a copy of that? 3093 05:17:58,000 --> 05:18:04,480 » In any case, I'd suggest that if and I understand the concern here, but if we 3094 05:18:02,560 --> 05:18:08,240 could probably close up this hearing and move on. I think we need a motion if I 3095 05:18:07,200 --> 05:18:12,958 missed it. Okay. >> Well, thank you for coming. I mean, I 3096 05:18:11,360 --> 05:18:18,320 think it's valuable to talk to us and we'll keep an eye out for it next time. 3097 05:18:15,680 --> 05:18:20,000 uh and understand that uh this was frustrating. 3098 05:18:19,200 --> 05:18:24,638 » Yep. >> Um I agree with the assessor's 3099 05:18:22,638 --> 05:18:27,760 recommendation. Would you like a motion, >> please? 3100 05:18:26,400 --> 05:18:31,520 » I move we accept the assessor's recommendation to deny the petitioner's 3101 05:18:29,440 --> 05:18:38,798 request for abatement of refund of taxes on case number 26-09. 3102 05:18:34,878 --> 05:18:44,080 » Second. Uh any further discussion? >> Uh hearing none. All in favor? I 3103 05:18:41,760 --> 05:18:48,400 » I thank you for coming, sir. 3104 05:18:46,320 --> 05:18:55,798 » Can I ask one last question? Is my senior tax exemption in place? 3105 05:18:52,080 --> 05:18:55,798 » I believe it is. 3106 05:18:59,040 --> 05:19:03,280 » Mr. Deli, we can get that information to you and we'll provide that information 3107 05:19:02,400 --> 05:19:07,920 to you. >> Great. 3108 05:19:04,080 --> 05:19:14,400 » Thank you. And thank you for >> Okay. Uh moving on to um case number 3109 05:19:12,080 --> 05:19:18,920 26-16. >> Uh Mr. Selco. 3110 05:19:26,638 --> 05:19:33,400 I'm going uh we have somebody raising their hand. I'm going to provote them to 3111 05:19:30,240 --> 05:19:33,400 the list. 3112 05:19:36,400 --> 05:19:45,718 » Excel goes online. Yes. Okay. >> Thank you. Um Mr. Sulco, would you uh 3113 05:19:42,160 --> 05:19:45,718 introduce yourself? 3114 05:19:46,560 --> 05:19:53,440 » And then we'll hear from the assessor. >> Hi, my name is Kirk Sulco. I live at 26 3115 05:19:51,600 --> 05:19:59,600 South Freeman Street. >> Okay. Thank you. Um assessor G. 3116 05:19:55,760 --> 05:20:04,560 » Yes. Um on September, this is case number 2616. 3117 05:20:02,320 --> 05:20:09,920 Um, this assessor is recommending a denial. On September 2nd, 2025, the 3118 05:20:07,600 --> 05:20:14,878 property owner requested a decrease in square footage because of the 57 rule, 3119 05:20:12,480 --> 05:20:19,680 and that has to do with sloping ceilings because it limits the square footage. 3120 05:20:17,920 --> 05:20:24,560 The rule states that the building code requirements for slope ceilings in attic 3121 05:20:21,680 --> 05:20:29,200 spaces or rooms under a roof, whereas at least half of the finished floor area 3122 05:20:26,400 --> 05:20:32,718 must have a ceiling height of 7 ft. And then any area with a height under five 3123 05:20:30,878 --> 05:20:40,798 feet does not count towards the floor area. So we did do that adjustment. Now 3124 05:20:36,240 --> 05:20:46,480 Mr. Celco is requesting an abatement for 2025 3125 05:20:43,200 --> 05:20:52,958 um indicating that there's only one bedroom. Um there we have it as three 3126 05:20:49,520 --> 05:20:59,040 bedrooms. We did a inspection at the property and the two upper floors are 3127 05:20:55,600 --> 05:21:04,360 clearly bedrooms for advalorum purposes. We value bedrooms at his current use. 3128 05:21:04,638 --> 05:21:10,240 » So you mean you saw evidence they were being used as bedrooms? 3129 05:21:06,798 --> 05:21:13,798 » That's correct. Mr. Sco was kind of so we can do the measurement. 3130 05:21:14,638 --> 05:21:20,240 » What were the ceiling heights? They were under seven feet. So 3131 05:21:18,160 --> 05:21:23,600 » that's correct. That's why we were >> Let me know when I can speak because I 3132 05:21:21,840 --> 05:21:26,000 don't want to speak over anyone. So, just let me know when my the ball's in 3133 05:21:25,280 --> 05:21:32,160 my court. >> Yep. Yep. You You'll get your turn. So, 3134 05:21:28,638 --> 05:21:34,000 um, Assessor G, you had a question from Georgia. 3135 05:21:32,718 --> 05:21:37,760 » I couldn't hear what Georgia asked. >> Sorry. I'll try to speak up a little 3136 05:21:35,840 --> 05:21:40,560 bit. I had just asked whether she saw evidence that these spaces were being 3137 05:21:39,280 --> 05:21:42,320 used as bedrooms. >> Okay. 3138 05:21:40,878 --> 05:21:47,840 » Yes, that's correct. Thank you. >> Okay. So, notwithstanding the fact that 3139 05:21:45,440 --> 05:21:51,680 portions of it are under the seven ft, they're actually being used as bedrooms, 3140 05:21:50,320 --> 05:21:57,760 then they count as bedrooms. >> Correct. The square footage was reduced 3141 05:21:55,520 --> 05:22:00,320 for the 57 rule. >> Oh, okay. 3142 05:21:58,480 --> 05:22:06,160 » So, we did reduce it and provided a refund to Mr. Selco. However, for ad 3143 05:22:03,520 --> 05:22:10,480 valorum purposes, we do it as its current use. 3144 05:22:07,600 --> 05:22:15,200 » Okay. So, um you reduce the square footage that would um decrease his 3145 05:22:14,160 --> 05:22:22,760 taxes, right? >> Correct. Okay. All right. Um Okay. Um 3146 05:22:19,360 --> 05:22:22,760 Mr. Selco, 3147 05:22:23,200 --> 05:22:29,040 » may I speak? >> Yes, please. 3148 05:22:25,440 --> 05:22:37,520 » Um so, last year, uh she is correct. The the 57 rule was used, but it was only 3149 05:22:32,560 --> 05:22:47,120 50% of it used. the five foot and above um was only used and what the seven foot 3150 05:22:41,200 --> 05:22:52,240 and under wasn't used. Um I I really don't understand because if a bed is in 3151 05:22:49,840 --> 05:22:57,920 a bedroom that makes a bedroom, there was no other furniture. I can't bring 3152 05:22:54,320 --> 05:23:04,400 dressers up there. There's it's under seven feet the bedrooms 3153 05:23:00,958 --> 05:23:12,240 which the 57 rule states it has to be above five feet and over seven feet 3154 05:23:07,520 --> 05:23:17,440 period. I like to follow rules. So she Donna did not measure last year. She did 3155 05:23:15,360 --> 05:23:22,160 measure this year. So I don't know why it's being denied. She measured under 3156 05:23:19,760 --> 05:23:28,200 seven feet, which the rule says the ceilings must be at least 7 feet. 3157 05:23:25,200 --> 05:23:28,200 Period. 3158 05:23:30,000 --> 05:23:35,680 » Assessor G. >> Yes, we did reduce that square footage 3159 05:23:33,520 --> 05:23:40,958 for that 57 rule and >> that was only for the five foot. 3160 05:23:39,280 --> 05:23:46,958 » Hold on. Hold on. Let her finish. >> You could see the documentation provided 3161 05:23:43,040 --> 05:23:51,600 by Mr. sell code indicating that um and we did measure so we do know that it is 3162 05:23:49,120 --> 05:23:55,760 the 57 rule so we reduced the square footage by 200 upstairs 3163 05:23:53,680 --> 05:24:01,040 » that was last year you did not measure last year you measured two weeks ago 3164 05:23:58,320 --> 05:24:06,480 which is why I'm dumbfounded that you would deny it because it was under seven 3165 05:24:04,080 --> 05:24:11,840 feet was that correct Donna >> that we did adjust the square footage 3166 05:24:10,160 --> 05:24:17,760 » when did you adjust it you adjusted it last year for 200 square feet. That was 3167 05:24:14,320 --> 05:24:23,920 the five feet around the slope ceiling. That didn't take into the fact the 7 3168 05:24:20,560 --> 05:24:26,480 foot of the 57 rule. >> We're pretty close to the square 3169 05:24:25,120 --> 05:24:30,320 footage. We're not going to be able to get it exact, but we're pretty close to 3170 05:24:28,718 --> 05:24:35,200 the current square footage with >> not on my not on it's a one-bedroom, one 3171 05:24:32,878 --> 05:24:40,560 bath with the ANC, which is the appraisers used this as of two years 3172 05:24:37,520 --> 05:24:46,718 ago. The rule states the ceiling height has to be above 7 feet. Did you measure 3173 05:24:44,160 --> 05:24:52,958 a a ceiling height above 7t? Donna, >> you saw us do it. Yes. 3174 05:24:49,280 --> 05:24:58,638 » The two bedrooms were not over. >> Madam Chair, what I'd like to suggest is 3175 05:24:55,520 --> 05:25:02,718 that one person be allowed to offer testimony to the board at a time and 3176 05:25:00,878 --> 05:25:06,480 then the board deliberate based on that or ask any questions it may have. 3177 05:25:05,040 --> 05:25:09,520 » Thank you. And then if there's any member of the public that wishes to 3178 05:25:07,840 --> 05:25:11,760 speak to, it has that opportunity, but we usually don't open it up during these 3179 05:25:11,200 --> 05:25:18,480 hearings. >> Uh yes. Um our our council just advised 3180 05:25:15,360 --> 05:25:23,360 that we we really can't allow you to start arguing with our staff. You can 3181 05:25:20,798 --> 05:25:26,480 make your statement and she can make her statement and then we will make a 3182 05:25:24,958 --> 05:25:31,520 decision. >> Okay. But she just 3183 05:25:28,958 --> 05:25:36,878 incorrectly said that the ceiling heights were above 7 ft. She measured 3184 05:25:34,400 --> 05:25:42,480 two bedrooms that were under they were 6'5 3185 05:25:38,480 --> 05:25:48,560 which is under 7 feet. The other room was above 7 feet but the pinnacle it the 3186 05:25:46,400 --> 05:25:54,480 first part of the rule says that 50% of the rule had 50% of the ceiling height 3187 05:25:51,440 --> 05:26:01,760 has to be there. The room was 12 feet and it was only 51 in. So that room does 3188 05:25:58,160 --> 05:26:06,560 not constitute square footage on the 57 rule. 3189 05:26:03,440 --> 05:26:10,080 Okay, thank you. Uh, Assessor G, can you explain? 3190 05:26:07,840 --> 05:26:14,878 » We did the measurements. The center of the rooms are 3191 05:26:13,200 --> 05:26:19,840 correctly being assessed for square footage. We 3192 05:26:16,958 --> 05:26:22,798 took out the sides that were under the 7 foot rule. 3193 05:26:21,200 --> 05:26:26,000 » I did that last year. >> Yes. 3194 05:26:23,360 --> 05:26:29,600 » All I asked you to do is come measure. >> Okay. 3195 05:26:26,480 --> 05:26:33,360 » Sarah, can I can I request that Mr. Elco not speak unless requested to speak. 3196 05:26:32,878 --> 05:26:37,040 » Yes. >> Thank you. 3197 05:26:33,840 --> 05:26:39,520 » Which I just explained. Um Okay. So when you went out and measured 3198 05:26:38,878 --> 05:26:42,400 » Mhm. >> Uh this is the information you found. 3199 05:26:42,080 --> 05:26:46,718 Yep. >> And you reduced his tax burden by 200 3200 05:26:46,080 --> 05:26:47,920 square ft. >> That is correct. 3201 05:26:47,600 --> 05:26:52,638 » Okay. >> That was last year. Megan, 3202 05:26:49,920 --> 05:26:56,080 » I mean, sir, >> I [clears throat] would request that the 3203 05:26:54,080 --> 05:26:58,798 board simply ask questions at this point of whoever it has questions of and then 3204 05:26:57,920 --> 05:27:06,638 deliberate. >> Okay. Um, uh, Assessor G, 3205 05:27:03,920 --> 05:27:14,160 are you satisfied based on the state rules that your measurement this year is 3206 05:27:11,200 --> 05:27:17,120 adequate in order to assess the value of this home? 3207 05:27:14,878 --> 05:27:21,718 » As close as we can get. Correct. >> Okay. 3208 05:27:18,718 --> 05:27:21,718 colleagues, 3209 05:27:25,840 --> 05:27:32,240 » I need to make sure I understand this and I'm struggling. So, rooms with low 3210 05:27:29,520 --> 05:27:36,878 ceilings don't get counted as rooms, right? Um, so you measured where there's 3211 05:27:35,520 --> 05:27:38,718 low ceiling, you took that out of the square footage, the finished square 3212 05:27:38,000 --> 05:27:41,680 footage of the house. >> That is correct. 3213 05:27:39,680 --> 05:27:45,840 » And so, um, 3214 05:27:44,240 --> 05:27:49,760 so you reduced the square footage. It's close. You are also you are continuing 3215 05:27:48,000 --> 05:27:51,840 to count those as rooms. >> That is correct. 3216 05:27:50,400 --> 05:27:53,840 » And that's because you saw evidence that they are used as rooms. 3217 05:27:53,040 --> 05:27:58,638 » That is correct. >> And state law says that when that you 3218 05:27:56,400 --> 05:28:05,520 used a phrase that I want to make sure I understand um you [sighs] 3219 05:28:02,480 --> 05:28:06,798 you go by use, you go by actual use of a space. 3220 05:28:06,080 --> 05:28:08,480 » That is correct. >> Okay. 3221 05:28:07,200 --> 05:28:11,480 » Brad alarm purposes. >> Okay. 3222 05:28:12,000 --> 05:28:19,760 » Jody, do you have any questions? I am somewhat still confused because 3223 05:28:17,200 --> 05:28:26,160 it's the square footage is taken off. 200 square ft is taken off. 3224 05:28:23,280 --> 05:28:32,320 I'm assuming he is wanting pretty much all but some inches of the room. So it's 3225 05:28:29,200 --> 05:28:36,638 not like the whole room can be used. That is his argument. Am I understanding 3226 05:28:34,558 --> 05:28:42,400 that correct? Well, she already took off part of the No, but he's basically 3227 05:28:38,718 --> 05:28:49,920 saying none of the room meets that criteria. He said there's only inches in 3228 05:28:44,400 --> 05:28:55,680 the middle that would be in your Okay. >> I don't believe that that's true. There 3229 05:28:52,400 --> 05:28:59,440 there was clearly more than inches that are can be used 3230 05:28:58,240 --> 05:29:02,000 » above the 5T. >> That's correct. 3231 05:29:00,798 --> 05:29:08,958 » 57 rule. >> And I could you explain the 57 rule 3232 05:29:04,000 --> 05:29:13,760 again? Mhm. Um the 57 rule um is sloping ceilings in attic spaces or 3233 05:29:11,280 --> 05:29:19,280 rooms under a roof where at least half of the finished floor area must have a 3234 05:29:16,320 --> 05:29:27,840 ceiling height of 7 ft. And any area with a height under 5t does 3235 05:29:23,280 --> 05:29:31,520 not count towards the floor area. >> So that's 3236 05:29:29,600 --> 05:29:34,718 2 feet of wiggle room. I don't quite understand. 3237 05:29:33,680 --> 05:29:39,680 Oh, >> so if he has less than half of the room 3238 05:29:37,840 --> 05:29:42,718 that is seven feet. So you're saying more than half the room is at least 3239 05:29:41,360 --> 05:29:46,760 seven feet. >> Oh, 3240 05:29:43,440 --> 05:29:46,760 » it's not. 3241 05:29:47,120 --> 05:29:51,920 » George, did you have a question of assessor? 3242 05:29:50,160 --> 05:29:56,718 » No, I have a question. >> Okay, go for it. You can ask him 3243 05:29:54,320 --> 05:30:01,600 directly. Perfect. >> Am I Am I understanding the protest 3244 05:29:59,280 --> 05:30:05,200 correctly? I'm I'm seeing 3245 05:30:03,520 --> 05:30:08,480 square footage. But I think maybe the the most meaningful assertion here is 3246 05:30:07,040 --> 05:30:13,200 that there's only one bedroom in the home. Am I understanding you correctly? 3247 05:30:11,760 --> 05:30:17,760 » Are you talking to me? >> Yes. Yes. 3248 05:30:14,400 --> 05:30:22,878 » To be honest, I'm 6 foot three. Those rooms, because they have beds in them, 3249 05:30:19,760 --> 05:30:28,000 the bed is able to get up to this the half floor. I can't. There's no 3250 05:30:25,680 --> 05:30:33,600 dressers. There's no anything. So, if I go to sell it, people will see a bed, 3251 05:30:31,120 --> 05:30:39,040 but there's nothing else. If I had put a dresser on the wall, my head would hit 3252 05:30:36,480 --> 05:30:45,440 the slope ceiling before I even got three feet to a dresser. So, in essence, 3253 05:30:42,000 --> 05:30:54,480 this 57 rule, and let me read what what I've written. The 5-7 rule based on ANC 3254 05:30:50,558 --> 05:31:00,718 Z765 standards dictates that for rooms with slope ceilings, only areas with a 3255 05:30:57,440 --> 05:31:09,680 ceiling height of 5T or greater can be included with the gross living area. And 3256 05:31:04,958 --> 05:31:15,600 this is what we did not do last year. I I abated the taxes last year. I did the 3257 05:31:13,200 --> 05:31:21,840 measurements that reduced the square footage from 200. 3258 05:31:18,638 --> 05:31:29,600 All they did was measure the ceiling height two weeks ago and it was below 7 3259 05:31:25,440 --> 05:31:36,558 ft. So the and on the rule, the 7 foot of the 57 foot rule states and at least 3260 05:31:33,760 --> 05:31:43,680 50% of that finished area must have a ceiling height of at least seven feet. 3261 05:31:40,000 --> 05:31:50,878 Must. So if the ceiling height is not seven feet, this rule is 3262 05:31:47,920 --> 05:31:57,520 saying that that half floor is not finished square footage and my tax base 3263 05:31:53,600 --> 05:31:59,840 should be yes. A one-bedroom, one bath. The only the only 3264 05:31:59,120 --> 05:32:04,798 » Thank you. >> the 3265 05:32:01,440 --> 05:32:09,680 Thank you. I I want to ask a followup. >> You are asserting 1,114 3266 05:32:07,520 --> 05:32:14,878 square feet as the as the square footage of your home. Correct. the correct of 3267 05:32:11,840 --> 05:32:18,638 the 57 rule from the ANC measurements. Yes, that is the correct. 3268 05:32:17,680 --> 05:32:22,958 » Thank you for that. >> I just want to follow the rules. 3269 05:32:21,280 --> 05:32:26,080 » Um, okay. Let me I'm bouncing around because 3270 05:32:24,718 --> 05:32:32,440 I I need to go to this other thing in the agenda. Bear with me. 3271 05:32:29,440 --> 05:32:32,440 Um, 3272 05:32:34,400 --> 05:32:44,878 I Peter, have you looked into that law >> specifically? No, I can't speak to that. 3273 05:32:43,200 --> 05:32:47,200 » Assessor G, I don't hear you contesting that that's how the rule works. 3274 05:32:46,558 --> 05:32:52,080 » Correct. >> Um, I what I'm trying to figure out. So, 3275 05:32:49,600 --> 05:32:57,840 what what is I'm not seeing comps in the packet. What is the square footage of 3276 05:32:55,120 --> 05:33:02,958 the home as in in your records? We had the first floor at 10,042 3277 05:33:00,160 --> 05:33:08,958 and the second floor at 418 and that's what we were provided by Mr. 3278 05:33:06,480 --> 05:33:11,840 Selco last year. Then we went out and confirmed that that measurements are 3279 05:33:10,798 --> 05:33:16,320 correct. >> I Mr. Selco, I really want to encourage 3280 05:33:13,840 --> 05:33:20,520 you to wait till we ask you a question. Thank you. 3281 05:33:17,520 --> 05:33:20,520 » Um, 3282 05:33:20,878 --> 05:33:26,240 will you say those numbers one more time? said 1,00 3283 05:33:23,760 --> 05:33:31,958 » 1,042 for the first floor and then the second 3284 05:33:28,480 --> 05:33:31,958 floor is 418 3285 05:33:34,400 --> 05:33:38,680 » if you don't take this. 3286 05:33:42,558 --> 05:33:50,878 » So the assessor is asserting colleagues that we have a 1,460 foot home with 3287 05:33:47,040 --> 05:33:56,878 three bedrooms. the >> the assessor is assuming a 1470 square 3288 05:33:53,600 --> 05:34:00,320 foot home 418 3289 05:33:58,160 --> 05:34:02,320 » 1042 + 418 >> I think that's 3290 05:34:01,120 --> 05:34:08,440 » 1470 >> 1460 I'm not I'm not 3291 05:34:04,638 --> 05:34:08,440 » 1470 but anyway 3292 05:34:11,360 --> 05:34:19,360 » I'm using a calculator >> okay so what do you have 3293 05:34:16,878 --> 05:34:19,360 » 1460 3294 05:34:19,520 --> 05:34:21,760 Yes, you're correct. >> Okay, 3295 05:34:21,040 --> 05:34:25,040 » that's it. >> Um, I'm not trying to get stuck on that. 3296 05:34:23,840 --> 05:34:28,000 So, so colleagues, I'm just trying to wrap my head around this. We have an 3297 05:34:26,400 --> 05:34:32,718 assert the assessor's office's records show 1,460 ft of the home 3298 05:34:30,558 --> 05:34:35,920 » and it's a three-bedroom home. The applicant is stating that that the the 3299 05:34:34,558 --> 05:34:44,160 actual square footage of the home is 1,114 ft and it only has one bed. 3300 05:34:41,040 --> 05:34:47,680 I I would I hear I hear the assessor saying with respect to the bedroom 3301 05:34:45,440 --> 05:34:50,080 counts that we count bedrooms when we see beds and rooms. 3302 05:34:48,798 --> 05:34:54,320 » Current Yes. Correct. >> Colleagues, I would propose to you that 3303 05:34:51,840 --> 05:34:59,040 that we decide that this is a three-bedroom home based on the evidence 3304 05:34:56,638 --> 05:35:02,718 provided of the assessor and then we can start to talk about the 3305 05:35:00,320 --> 05:35:06,558 square feet. Does that sound reasonable? it. 3306 05:35:04,798 --> 05:35:10,638 » Do you mind if So, if there's three bedrooms upstairs and one downstairs, 3307 05:35:08,718 --> 05:35:15,760 you're missing it's four bedrooms and one bath. If we're going to use the use 3308 05:35:14,240 --> 05:35:18,240 example, correct? >> Did you Did you find four beds or just 3309 05:35:17,440 --> 05:35:22,558 three beds? >> Um I not the count bed count, it's the 3310 05:35:21,280 --> 05:35:27,680 current use. >> There was There's a futon bed in the 3311 05:35:25,280 --> 05:35:32,400 yellow room. There's two queens in the one room, the north side. There's a 3312 05:35:30,160 --> 05:35:37,840 queen in the left. The all I have is beds. There's no furniture because I 3313 05:35:34,480 --> 05:35:42,798 can't get them up to the half floor. Do you understand? Those are not bedrooms. 3314 05:35:40,480 --> 05:35:48,638 If you can't function and put clothes into dressers and whatnot, 3315 05:35:45,520 --> 05:35:51,920 » do you >> It would looked appear to be a couch to 3316 05:35:50,400 --> 05:35:55,920 us >> or like you said, 3317 05:35:53,200 --> 05:36:03,360 » which would be pulled out, but we wanted to measure the room so I had it upright. 3318 05:35:59,360 --> 05:36:08,958 » Mr. Soo, thank you. So, um, you observed three bedrooms in the use 3319 05:36:06,240 --> 05:36:12,798 given you in the home. I know I don't think that we're here to discuss whether 3320 05:36:11,120 --> 05:36:16,878 we should actually go reappraise this at a fourbedroom home. I think we're here 3321 05:36:14,878 --> 05:36:19,760 to discuss whether the assertion that it has one bedroom or whether it has three 3322 05:36:18,480 --> 05:36:25,600 bedrooms is the conversation we're having. Colleagues, I suggest we we 3323 05:36:24,240 --> 05:36:29,280 well, I'll just say it like this. I agree with the assessor. The assessor 3324 05:36:27,520 --> 05:36:34,480 says that we go based on use, not height of the ceiling. the assessor noticed 3325 05:36:31,440 --> 05:36:37,040 beds. Uh maybe Mr. Sco is lucky that one of them didn't appear to be a bed when 3326 05:36:35,760 --> 05:36:40,878 they were there and so it just says three beds bedrooms and I'm good. And 3327 05:36:39,760 --> 05:36:44,638 then and then I think the more complicated piece of this conversation 3328 05:36:42,160 --> 05:36:48,480 is the square footage. Um but so I wanted to try to address the more simple 3329 05:36:46,798 --> 05:36:52,320 one or do you think that this should be 3330 05:36:49,920 --> 05:36:54,638 adjusted for the number of bedrooms? >> Well, uh I don't think it should 3331 05:36:53,534 --> 05:37:02,080 [clears throat] be adjusted for the number of bedrooms. Um, but I I do see 3332 05:36:58,320 --> 05:37:07,040 that she took off 200 square ft of the size of the home, which helps um the 3333 05:37:05,440 --> 05:37:11,360 homeowner. Um, 3334 05:37:10,000 --> 05:37:19,600 Jody. >> Yeah. I mean, based on what Donna said 3335 05:37:15,440 --> 05:37:26,080 with the square footage um and its use, that rule only applies if they're not 3336 05:37:22,958 --> 05:37:31,558 using it as a bedroom. Correct. So based on the rules that Donna is 3337 05:37:28,558 --> 05:37:31,558 stating 3338 05:37:32,320 --> 05:37:39,920 have no other option but to deny 3339 05:37:37,600 --> 05:37:45,920 um because I think it's the policy that if you can use it as a bedroom which 3340 05:37:42,080 --> 05:37:50,958 they are um that is what's in question. >> What policy is that 3341 05:37:50,000 --> 05:37:57,120 » you state that policy >> for advalorum purposes? um it is 3342 05:37:54,080 --> 05:38:03,440 assessed for its current use. That's not a building thing. We are 3343 05:38:00,798 --> 05:38:06,400 going by what we are required to do. >> So then it would be a four 3344 05:38:04,718 --> 05:38:10,240 bedroomedroom, one bath with that argument. Correct. 3345 05:38:08,798 --> 05:38:14,000 » Yes, but I don't want to increase your value. 3346 05:38:11,120 --> 05:38:17,440 » That's fine. I want to follow the rules. >> Yeah. Um, 3347 05:38:15,680 --> 05:38:20,240 » we can look at that next assess reassessment period, 3348 05:38:18,480 --> 05:38:24,798 » but but it doesn't say anything about sir. I really got to I really want to 3349 05:38:22,480 --> 05:38:28,958 ask you again to respond to questions only. 3350 05:38:26,080 --> 05:38:31,920 » Um, and shoot, I just lost my train of thought. 3351 05:38:30,400 --> 05:38:34,958 How come we don't have any comparables on this one? 3352 05:38:32,958 --> 05:38:40,080 » Because that wasn't the problem. He wasn't saying my value is too high. 3353 05:38:37,760 --> 05:38:45,360 Okay, he's saying the 57 rule. So, we're focusing on the 57 rule and the bed and 3354 05:38:42,400 --> 05:38:48,638 bath counts. Do you do do you comply this this ANC57 rule is a rule that you 3355 05:38:47,600 --> 05:38:52,718 do comply with? Right. >> If we are aware of the situation 3356 05:38:51,120 --> 05:38:55,840 » if you're aware of the situation >> and my only other thing would be do we 3357 05:38:54,320 --> 05:39:01,920 have original plans for the house that we can utilize and any permits for any 3358 05:38:59,280 --> 05:39:07,840 updates that were done to the property. >> I'd be willing to look at those. So 3359 05:39:05,600 --> 05:39:16,400 to count what what I'm hearing what I'm reading is that to count any portion 3360 05:39:12,798 --> 05:39:20,480 of that of a room >> must be seven feet. 3361 05:39:17,920 --> 05:39:24,160 » Um I'm sorry. At least 50% of the finished area of the room has to be 3362 05:39:21,920 --> 05:39:27,280 seven seven feet. Is that correct? Is that that that's what I'm reading off of 3363 05:39:25,600 --> 05:39:32,718 the petition. Is that is that correct? >> My understanding is that we're only 3364 05:39:30,400 --> 05:39:35,920 going to assess on the square footage. That's a certain height. 3365 05:39:34,558 --> 05:39:40,080 » You your understanding is you only assess on a square foot. 3366 05:39:36,718 --> 05:39:44,480 » We're gonna assess on what is >> the the petitioner is is stating I I 3367 05:39:43,040 --> 05:39:49,520 think I understand this correctly. The petitioner is stating that 3368 05:39:46,958 --> 05:39:53,760 zero square footage should be counted in those rooms that have slope ceilings 3369 05:39:51,680 --> 05:39:59,200 because because there because there's less than 50% of the square 3370 05:39:56,558 --> 05:40:02,320 I'm sorry of the area of those rooms is seven feet. Are you familiar with that 3371 05:40:01,120 --> 05:40:06,638 portion of the rule? >> Not for adorum purposes. We're gonna 3372 05:40:04,240 --> 05:40:10,718 assess what is usable. >> For adalorum purposes, you assess what's 3373 05:40:08,718 --> 05:40:14,878 usable. You don't refer to these ANIE standards for abilorum purposes. 3374 05:40:12,320 --> 05:40:20,160 » Well, if I had like previously we had it the whole room, we did reduce for what 3375 05:40:17,440 --> 05:40:25,040 was not usable. So I mean the where I'm struggling with this is either if we're 3376 05:40:22,400 --> 05:40:31,440 using ANIE if if ANIE helps us understand how to measure square footage 3377 05:40:27,760 --> 05:40:34,320 and ANIE says that at least 50% of the room needs to be higher than seven feet 3378 05:40:32,798 --> 05:40:38,040 then the next question is is 50% of the room higher than 7 feet. 3379 05:40:40,240 --> 05:40:45,760 » It was it was 12 feet. >> That's I'm sorry that's a question for 3380 05:40:44,000 --> 05:40:51,520 the assessor >> with best guess. appear to be 3381 05:40:49,600 --> 05:40:54,798 » what? >> Would you like me to take away his 3382 05:40:53,120 --> 05:41:00,000 ability to talk? >> I'm deferring to the chair to manage the 3383 05:40:57,840 --> 05:41:03,000 » Oh, and the chair is doing a bad job. Um, 3384 05:41:03,440 --> 05:41:08,958 » and we got to keep in mind this is advelum. We do for ad valorum purposes. 3385 05:41:07,760 --> 05:41:13,520 » That's right. Like there's two different rules here that one applies this way and 3386 05:41:11,600 --> 05:41:17,680 then the other one applies if we're using that one rule the use then it it 3387 05:41:16,958 --> 05:41:20,160 is what it is. >> It is what it is on our purposes. 3388 05:41:19,920 --> 05:41:24,558 » Okay. >> You know that space could be used. So 3389 05:41:22,480 --> 05:41:27,600 we're going to include it in our square footage. 3390 05:41:25,120 --> 05:41:31,280 » And um what what's the difference in price? He he thinks it should be 300 and 3391 05:41:29,840 --> 05:41:35,760 what did >> we have it currently valued at? 3392 05:41:34,958 --> 05:41:41,120 548 >> 519470 3393 05:41:37,840 --> 05:41:46,040 for the residential part and 28520 for the land for a total of 548260 3394 05:41:46,080 --> 05:41:53,760 and he's wanting a value of 300,000. >> Um I just I just want to read colleagues 3395 05:41:52,400 --> 05:41:57,878 I think I finally got the answer that I'm looking for. Um 3396 05:41:58,080 --> 05:42:05,280 I'm just I'm just reading off of a Google search. ANIE Z765 is a voluntary 3397 05:42:03,840 --> 05:42:09,200 industry guideline. >> It was made mandatory for mortgage loan 3398 05:42:06,878 --> 05:42:12,958 approvals approvals, not mortgage underwriting rules. They do 3399 05:42:11,120 --> 05:42:17,280 not automatically apply to ADORM property tax valuation. Adorum property 3400 05:42:15,440 --> 05:42:22,000 tax assessments are governed strict strictly by state property tax laws, 3401 05:42:19,840 --> 05:42:26,000 local assessor regulations, and state specific appraisal manuals rather than 3402 05:42:24,000 --> 05:42:29,840 these ANIE standards that are being requested in the abatement request. All 3403 05:42:29,440 --> 05:42:32,240 right, >> Peter, do you agree with what I just 3404 05:42:31,840 --> 05:42:38,558 read? >> Yeah, absolutely. Um, 3405 05:42:34,080 --> 05:42:42,958 » okay. And so you assessor Gave him the benefit of the doubt by reducing the 3406 05:42:41,040 --> 05:42:45,840 value by the 200 square feet. >> That's you're calling you're not calling 3407 05:42:44,080 --> 05:42:49,520 it usable where it's below. >> Yeah, we we did reduce it for his 3408 05:42:47,520 --> 05:42:53,120 original request in 2025. >> Okay. So, colleagues, may I have a 3409 05:42:51,920 --> 05:42:57,558 motion? >> Yeah, I agree with the assessor on this 3410 05:42:54,558 --> 05:42:57,558 one. 3411 05:42:58,558 --> 05:43:05,440 Um, I'd like to make a motion on case number 26-16 3412 05:43:03,360 --> 05:43:10,320 consider the assessor's recommendation to deny 3413 05:43:07,600 --> 05:43:18,240 petition for abatement or refund of taxes based on those two procedures 3414 05:43:15,280 --> 05:43:23,600 » as discussed. Second, uh, any further discuss colleagues? 3415 05:43:20,400 --> 05:43:29,520 » Um, I learned a lot with this. I did know about the 57 rule, but I did not 3416 05:43:25,680 --> 05:43:34,400 know about the other one. Um, um, that's very interesting. 3417 05:43:32,160 --> 05:43:37,440 And I guess it if if I was the homeowner, I would be a little bit 3418 05:43:35,600 --> 05:43:43,360 confused. Now I understand that. So hopefully you can understand that and in 3419 05:43:40,320 --> 05:43:48,400 the future. >> Okay. Uh, thank you. I hear have a 3420 05:43:46,878 --> 05:43:56,638 motion. Second discussion. All in favor? I I 3421 05:43:54,240 --> 05:44:03,840 » the the motion or the uh appeal is denied. 3422 05:43:58,878 --> 05:44:09,680 » Great. Um moving on to uh case number 26-17 3423 05:44:06,480 --> 05:44:14,558 through uh cases 26-40. 3424 05:44:11,680 --> 05:44:19,040 » These are all the same situations. And um I don't know if we have Andre online. 3425 05:44:17,840 --> 05:44:22,558 » I do see Andre. >> Okay. Just a quick question. Are we are 3426 05:44:21,520 --> 05:44:24,320 we trying to treat these under one hearing or are we trying to do 3427 05:44:23,920 --> 05:44:26,240 » Yes. >> Okay. We don't have to do 14 separate 3428 05:44:25,680 --> 05:44:32,000 hearings. Correct. >> I don't think so. 3429 05:44:29,360 --> 05:44:37,840 » So again, we value as a use as of January 1st. Mr. Alvarez did do a split 3430 05:44:35,680 --> 05:44:44,080 in his land creating a new subdivision in Empire which is West Fork. Um during 3431 05:44:41,840 --> 05:44:51,200 reassessment last year, it appears that the property was 3432 05:44:46,878 --> 05:44:56,320 valued as its current use as of March instead of as of January. So 3433 05:44:53,920 --> 05:45:01,360 on this case, I am requesting an abatement be done on these accounts. I 3434 05:44:59,040 --> 05:45:06,718 have provided you with a spreadsheet with a list of the accounts, what the 3435 05:45:04,160 --> 05:45:11,840 current actual value is, what the adjustment will I'm recommending 3436 05:45:09,840 --> 05:45:18,920 for these properties, and that will bring it back to its original value as 3437 05:45:13,840 --> 05:45:18,920 it was as of January 1st of 2025. 3438 05:45:19,440 --> 05:45:28,400 » Okay. Um, uh, Mr. Avorez, uh, do you have any comments? 3439 05:45:26,160 --> 05:45:32,558 No, Donna did a great job working through and understanding what happened 3440 05:45:29,760 --> 05:45:38,080 in the past. It was just a a date issue and uh I agree with her um amount of 3441 05:45:36,240 --> 05:45:40,480 abatement that she calculated. I thought it was very very helpful. 3442 05:45:40,160 --> 05:45:45,440 » Thank you. >> All right. So, between all 23 3443 05:45:42,798 --> 05:45:50,240 properties, I am requesting a refund of 11,398. 3444 05:45:47,520 --> 05:45:55,600 » All right. May I have a motion? I'll make a motion for case number 26-17 3445 05:45:53,040 --> 05:45:58,958 through 26-40 for the assessor's recommendation to 3446 05:45:57,360 --> 05:46:03,840 partially approve petitioner's request for abatement or refund of taxes and 3447 05:46:01,040 --> 05:46:09,040 order directing of refund of 2025 taxes in the amount of 11,398 3448 05:46:06,718 --> 05:46:12,240 proit by all jurisdictions receiving pavement thereof. 3449 05:46:11,280 --> 05:46:16,798 » Second. >> Any further discussion? 3450 05:46:15,280 --> 05:46:20,558 » Just a quick comment. This was a very complicated conversation a while back 3451 05:46:19,040 --> 05:46:26,000 and I'm grateful that you guys figured it out. 3452 05:46:23,040 --> 05:46:29,280 » All right. All in favor? >> Hi, Andre. 3453 05:46:27,600 --> 05:46:33,040 » Thank you so much, Donna. And and Chris, what's the address you have on record 3454 05:46:30,400 --> 05:46:35,680 for this ownership entity? I discontinued a certain mailbox. I want 3455 05:46:34,480 --> 05:46:40,520 to be sure it doesn't go to the wrong address. 3456 05:46:36,558 --> 05:46:40,520 » Yep. I have 3457 05:46:41,360 --> 05:46:44,958 I'll email it. >> Yes. Let's 3458 05:46:43,200 --> 05:46:46,798 » We'll do it later. Thank you guys. Good luck. 3459 05:46:46,400 --> 05:46:50,480 » Thank you. >> Appreciate it. 3460 05:46:48,878 --> 05:46:54,000 » Good call. >> All right. The board of county 3461 05:46:52,400 --> 05:46:59,600 commissioners is moving back to his regular session, a work session on 3462 05:46:57,360 --> 05:47:02,718 short-term rental ordinance. Uh David Danielson. 3463 05:47:00,718 --> 05:47:05,200 » Hey Dave, if you don't mind, I think this one's going to take a while. Could 3464 05:47:03,920 --> 05:47:06,638 we have the sheriff go first? >> Yeah, 3465 05:47:05,680 --> 05:47:10,480 » that's okay. Sheriff, >> of course. First, thank you. 3466 05:47:08,160 --> 05:47:17,080 » Uh, we will be having a work session discussion on study from speed cameras 3467 05:47:13,120 --> 05:47:17,080 with Sheriff Ron Thornton 3468 05:47:18,878 --> 05:47:24,798 » and I might suggest we >> see your five or 3469 05:47:22,958 --> 05:47:27,440 » between these two break. >> Yeah. 3470 05:47:25,280 --> 05:47:31,440 » Okay. >> Thanks. 3471 05:47:28,160 --> 05:47:37,798 » Share for you all. Oh, I sent just the basically 3472 05:47:34,320 --> 05:47:37,798 » they should have. 3473 05:47:38,080 --> 05:47:45,440 » Great, Sharon. >> Uh, thank you very much. 3474 05:47:42,798 --> 05:47:51,520 Uh, before we even get started, I just want to make a couple of things clear so 3475 05:47:48,160 --> 05:47:59,280 there's no confusion. Uh, this is not a proposal. This is not this is just 3476 05:47:56,000 --> 05:48:07,280 information based off the study that we had just a random particular vendor do 3477 05:48:03,760 --> 05:48:12,718 based on speeds in areas that we get a lot of complaints from. This is just 3478 05:48:10,080 --> 05:48:18,160 information for you guys. It's not me proposing we do this. It's not me 3479 05:48:15,760 --> 05:48:23,120 proposing we go with this vendor. This is just the information that was 3480 05:48:20,160 --> 05:48:25,920 gathered over a fiveday period. 7-day period approximately. Yeah. About a 3481 05:48:24,798 --> 05:48:29,680 7-day period. >> So, if I added up all the fines and all 3482 05:48:27,840 --> 05:48:32,400 the speeding things on this, I wasted my time. 3483 05:48:30,320 --> 05:48:38,878 » Um, no. [laughter] Uh, this is uh it was for you guys to 3484 05:48:36,558 --> 05:48:42,240 consider if this is something you would want to look at. 3485 05:48:40,160 --> 05:48:43,920 » This is not in lie of a procurement process is what he's saying. 3486 05:48:43,520 --> 05:48:47,200 » Yes. >> Talking about we haven't procured 3487 05:48:45,440 --> 05:48:50,240 anything. We haven't selected a specific vendor. We're just talking about the 3488 05:48:48,480 --> 05:48:53,200 information that this study came up with. 3489 05:48:51,840 --> 05:48:58,958 » So, I just want, you know, make sure we're all on the same page with this. 3490 05:48:56,638 --> 05:49:05,120 Uh, so I'll start off on the fat the photo 3491 05:49:02,000 --> 05:49:09,600 radar summary. Uh, we had u 3492 05:49:07,520 --> 05:49:12,718 we teamed with a private vendor, you know, just analyze several different 3493 05:49:11,120 --> 05:49:15,680 locations uh that we get a lot of complaints 3494 05:49:14,320 --> 05:49:21,920 about. uh the viability is based on a certain 3495 05:49:19,040 --> 05:49:27,280 number of violations at this particular designated locations. 3496 05:49:24,718 --> 05:49:34,558 In general, a minimum of 500 violations per month is needed for a given location 3497 05:49:31,680 --> 05:49:38,878 to essentially pay for itself. Uh there would be no out-of pocket cost to the 3498 05:49:36,878 --> 05:49:44,160 county whatsoever. Uh 3499 05:49:40,878 --> 05:49:48,240 that includes the speed, the photo radar, the video, the speed 3500 05:49:46,080 --> 05:49:54,958 violation capturing equipment, the violation processing and everything. 3501 05:49:51,760 --> 05:50:03,120 Uh out of the locations that we looked at, there are four locations 3502 05:49:57,760 --> 05:50:09,200 uh that would probably be viable uh with a number of 3503 05:50:07,040 --> 05:50:13,760 speeding violations that came through during that 3504 05:50:11,040 --> 05:50:20,798 given time. Four of those locations out of the seven or eight were uh deemed vi 3505 05:50:18,160 --> 05:50:23,798 viable from this company. Uh 3506 05:50:23,840 --> 05:50:32,798 at the request of the vendor, uh the locations we set up were eastbound 3507 05:50:29,760 --> 05:50:38,480 Alvarado Road just north of Alvarado open space, westbound Alvarado Road, 3508 05:50:36,160 --> 05:50:42,878 north of the open space, eastbound Fall River Road just south of 3509 05:50:40,638 --> 05:50:49,360 Woodpecker Gulch, and then westbound Fall River Road south of Woodpecker 3510 05:50:44,798 --> 05:50:53,520 Gulch. Uh eastbound Highway 103 at mile marker 3, 3511 05:50:51,600 --> 05:50:59,920 westbound at mile marker 3 on Highway 103. 3512 05:50:55,680 --> 05:51:05,520 Um eastbound around the 27,000 block of Colorado 103 and then westbound around 3513 05:51:02,798 --> 05:51:10,958 the 27,000 block of Colorado 103. >> So is that up by Echo Hills or 3514 05:51:07,840 --> 05:51:13,680 » uh it's on the Evergreen side. It's a little a little couple miles east of 3515 05:51:13,120 --> 05:51:18,320 there. >> Thank you. 3516 05:51:14,878 --> 05:51:24,958 But if you look at the on during that time frame there 3517 05:51:21,120 --> 05:51:30,958 seven day period >> if you averaged it out for the month 3518 05:51:28,320 --> 05:51:36,200 on westbound Fall River Road coming downhill 3519 05:51:32,480 --> 05:51:36,200 you're looking at 3973 3520 05:51:37,040 --> 05:51:44,798 violations. uh on westbound Highway 103 at mile 3521 05:51:41,920 --> 05:51:50,878 marker 3, you're looking at over 5,000 for the month. 3522 05:51:46,958 --> 05:51:56,080 And then eastbound and westbound total, uh you're looking almost 4,000 eastbound 3523 05:51:53,200 --> 05:52:02,360 and 6,500 uh almost 6,500 going uh westbound. 3524 05:52:02,480 --> 05:52:10,798 So if you decided that you wanted to do something like this uh the initial imp 3525 05:52:08,718 --> 05:52:17,360 implementation the vendors usually see an approximate 3526 05:52:13,680 --> 05:52:22,558 80 to 85% reduction in the quantity of violations through word of mouth, social 3527 05:52:19,920 --> 05:52:27,440 media and stuff like that. And it could go as low as 60% but the actual 3528 05:52:25,200 --> 05:52:33,120 reduction wouldn't be known until the cameras were put in place. 3529 05:52:31,200 --> 05:52:38,240 uh for their system to capture enough violations to be viable and self- 3530 05:52:35,120 --> 05:52:42,798 sustaining. They are recommending that we would if we decided to do this that 3531 05:52:40,558 --> 05:52:48,400 we adopt that anything 6 miles an hour or over 3532 05:52:46,638 --> 05:52:54,480 would be a citation. >> Mhm. Uh and if that was to be the case, 3533 05:52:52,638 --> 05:52:59,520 you'd have to adopt an ordinance to implement that. 3534 05:52:56,638 --> 05:53:04,320 Uh generally they're saying about 70% of the violations result in fines being 3535 05:53:02,240 --> 05:53:09,840 paid. Uh the f I'm sorry 3536 05:53:06,798 --> 05:53:15,840 » by the other 30% waved just unpaid. Uh 3537 05:53:13,360 --> 05:53:22,878 it's some of them are contested some of them we have and we'll get into that. Uh 3538 05:53:18,638 --> 05:53:27,680 some of the things that each fine, each photo that's saying you were speeding at 3539 05:53:25,040 --> 05:53:32,958 this location at this date and time, it has to be reviewed by somebody and it 3540 05:53:30,958 --> 05:53:36,878 could be, you know, we may look at it and see, you know, okay, we don't have a 3541 05:53:35,040 --> 05:53:41,920 good clear license plate you, you know, or something like that. So that would 3542 05:53:38,958 --> 05:53:46,240 just be thrown out. Mhm. [clears throat] >> So that would be some of the reasons 3543 05:53:43,760 --> 05:53:49,280 that >> okay 3544 05:53:46,638 --> 05:53:55,600 » the other 30% and some of them would be contested, some of them just like would 3545 05:53:51,440 --> 05:54:01,120 not be paid and I'm not sure if that would go to a collection agency through 3546 05:53:57,600 --> 05:54:05,360 this company or a company or whatever. >> Yeah, I think I think in many cases uh 3547 05:54:03,360 --> 05:54:08,080 they probably never do receive payment for a certain percentage of these 3548 05:54:06,558 --> 05:54:13,280 violations. I think that's the reality of of this type of enforcement. 3549 05:54:10,638 --> 05:54:17,280 » In an arrangement like this, is the fine owed to Clear Creek County or is the 3550 05:54:15,120 --> 05:54:23,600 fine owed to the vendor? >> The the vendor processes all of the 3551 05:54:20,400 --> 05:54:27,760 fines and then they will submit that money to Clar Creek County itself. 3552 05:54:25,840 --> 05:54:31,440 » Oh, so it is it is owed to us, but the relationship establishes them as the 3553 05:54:29,680 --> 05:54:34,638 collection agency. I I think that's how it works now. But without having a 3554 05:54:33,120 --> 05:54:40,958 contract in place to look at, it's hard to be specific on that. But they do 3555 05:54:36,718 --> 05:54:45,680 collect them and uh they cannot specify a per citation 3556 05:54:43,760 --> 05:54:50,080 charge that they would they would apply for their own benefit. Uh it's it's I 3557 05:54:48,000 --> 05:54:53,680 think that violates the statute, but the way for them to determine, but basically 3558 05:54:52,320 --> 05:54:57,840 if you were to average it out, if I understand correctly, and this is if 3559 05:54:55,440 --> 05:55:01,360 comes out to about $12 >> um approximately for their entire 3560 05:55:00,480 --> 05:55:04,160 process. >> Oh, for their work on 3561 05:55:02,958 --> 05:55:08,718 » for everything for everything they work on. So if you have a $40 fine, 3562 05:55:06,558 --> 05:55:11,440 » approximately 12 of that and this is just an approximation would go to them. 3563 05:55:10,958 --> 05:55:14,240 They have >> I certainly hope our fines are larger 3564 05:55:13,280 --> 05:55:18,558 than that. >> Fines are set by statute. step set by 3565 05:55:16,080 --> 05:55:26,958 statute and that was the next thing. Uh the fine amounts the 6 to 24 mile per 3566 05:55:22,160 --> 05:55:30,958 hour set by statute is up to $40 >> only. 3567 05:55:27,680 --> 05:55:36,958 » And then the 25 mph and over it can be up to $120. 3568 05:55:34,320 --> 05:55:41,840 Uh ideally the self the system would be self-supporting. The funds submitted by 3569 05:55:39,280 --> 05:55:46,320 the vendor to the county would come to us. I think it's quarterly or monthly. 3570 05:55:44,878 --> 05:55:51,040 I'm not sure. I think it says it in here. But number eight goes answers that 3571 05:55:49,280 --> 05:55:56,400 question. The vendor reviews all the violations to 3572 05:55:53,200 --> 05:56:02,798 ensure viab viability before they send them to us uh for review. 3573 05:56:00,160 --> 05:56:07,760 A designated employee will then have to review all these violations before 3574 05:56:04,958 --> 05:56:13,520 sending them the approval. Once they are approved, the vendor handles all the 3575 05:56:10,240 --> 05:56:17,840 mailings, the fine collection, the court packets, and if a violation is 3576 05:56:15,760 --> 05:56:23,440 contested, there's no court appearance required by CCSO. 3577 05:56:20,240 --> 05:56:27,760 Uh the actual number of violations from a stable system, you know, that would 3578 05:56:25,840 --> 05:56:36,558 help us determine the workload of how much one employee has to review. 3579 05:56:33,280 --> 05:56:41,520 Oh, but the big kicker here is also there's a risk of vandalism to the 3580 05:56:40,000 --> 05:56:47,360 cameras. The vendor, they cover the cost of the 3581 05:56:44,638 --> 05:56:52,558 first camera that's vandalized and after that any instances of 3582 05:56:49,600 --> 05:56:57,280 vandalism is our responsibility. >> How how discreet are these or legally do 3583 05:56:55,280 --> 05:57:00,878 they have to be visible or can we do like game cams? 3584 05:56:58,400 --> 05:57:04,958 » No, they they have to be visible. You have to have signage. You have to say 3585 05:57:03,360 --> 05:57:11,846 photo radar in use. >> Okay. Can we say photo photo radar in 3586 05:57:07,120 --> 05:57:14,240 use and uh under camera observation? [laughter] 3587 05:57:12,558 --> 05:57:18,240 » Well, I think you know without looking at the statute itself, my estimation is 3588 05:57:16,400 --> 05:57:22,480 the statute is going to mandate certain requirements we have to meet in order to 3589 05:57:20,240 --> 05:57:26,718 apply these cameras. I think the statute is somewhat restrictive 3590 05:57:24,320 --> 05:57:29,760 » so that these really are not meant to be money makers. These are meant to promote 3591 05:57:28,638 --> 05:57:34,240 public safety >> and they [clears throat] don't want, I 3592 05:57:31,360 --> 05:57:38,638 think, a jurisdiction viewing this as as a way of attaining income for the county 3593 05:57:37,040 --> 05:57:41,520 or the city. That's really not the purpose here. 3594 05:57:39,040 --> 05:57:45,440 » What about for the sheriff's office? >> Same thing. I'm afraid 3595 05:57:42,558 --> 05:57:49,040 » 60 though, right? When the 60 to 80% of the people change their behavior, that's 3596 05:57:47,760 --> 05:57:53,280 your goal is what you're >> Absolutely. We want to change behavior. 3597 05:57:50,638 --> 05:57:56,798 You're absolutely right on that. >> How Oh, go ahead. No, no, 3598 05:57:55,360 --> 05:58:01,200 » how good are the cameras? Would they be able to capture those motorcycles that 3599 05:57:59,280 --> 05:58:05,840 are going 100 miles an hour >> if they've got a plate visible? But 3600 05:58:03,360 --> 05:58:09,600 that's just it. 99% of the motorcycles, they have the flip up license plates 3601 05:58:08,320 --> 05:58:12,762 » and so there's not >> totally illegal, right? 3602 05:58:10,718 --> 05:58:16,798 » 100%. [clears throat] 3603 05:58:13,280 --> 05:58:19,280 » So I do we get to influence how much do influence do we have over the location 3604 05:58:18,000 --> 05:58:23,840 of the cameras? >> Um, we have 3605 05:58:22,000 --> 05:58:28,878 a great deal of influence over where the location is. I'm wondering because where 3606 05:58:26,798 --> 05:58:32,798 I'm hearing about this most colleagues most recently at least is the Pine 3607 05:58:30,878 --> 05:58:37,200 Valley neighborhood. >> And when I look at where the the camera 3608 05:58:35,360 --> 05:58:43,120 is located, it looks like it is after the first exit 3609 05:58:41,520 --> 05:58:48,080 to the Pine Valley neighborhood. I can show you on my screen. It's just one of 3610 05:58:44,558 --> 05:58:51,760 the slides. Um, I think I see Pine Valley kind of cutting off there and 3611 05:58:50,240 --> 05:58:56,000 it's so it's after if you're headed westbound 3612 05:58:53,680 --> 05:58:59,120 after someone would turn off onto Pine. >> And I just wonder I was a little 3613 05:58:57,680 --> 05:59:03,120 surprised when I saw that because I just wonder if 3614 05:59:00,798 --> 05:59:09,680 trying to control behavior downhill of that exit on Pine Valley is 3615 05:59:07,520 --> 05:59:15,760 more helpful for safety. Well, the first exit there or the first entrance into 3616 05:59:12,080 --> 05:59:20,798 Pine Valley if you're going west is just right is not far past the county line. 3617 05:59:18,878 --> 05:59:24,718 » Uh, jurisdiction problems. Okay. 3618 05:59:21,840 --> 05:59:28,878 » Jurisdiction issues and to be able to get from the county line and to be able 3619 05:59:26,240 --> 05:59:33,680 to get sign enough signage up in place is going to be an issue. 3620 05:59:30,240 --> 05:59:39,600 » Okay. uh mile marker 27 uh is is still in a fairly curvy 3621 05:59:36,080 --> 05:59:45,680 section. And we can see in the actual speed study survey that they sent out uh 3622 05:59:42,558 --> 05:59:51,680 we were still getting a an exuberant number of 3623 05:59:48,080 --> 05:59:58,718 uh speeders through there. If we moved it another mile up the road, uh there's 3624 05:59:56,240 --> 06:00:04,000 this real long straightaway and that's where me personally I sit to run traffic 3625 06:00:01,920 --> 06:00:05,600 because they come around that curve and they take off. 3626 06:00:04,878 --> 06:00:11,200 » Right. >> And you know we but we have the ability 3627 06:00:08,400 --> 06:00:13,840 to say yes, we want these cameras at this location. 3628 06:00:12,320 --> 06:00:19,920 » Yeah. And and we also get a lot of complaints from Echo Hills people about 3629 06:00:17,200 --> 06:00:24,400 some speeders up there. What happens if a guy say lives up there, goes across 3630 06:00:22,240 --> 06:00:29,040 that every single day, speeds, doesn't pay the ticket. What happens to that? 3631 06:00:27,840 --> 06:00:34,558 » Can we arrest her? >> Oh, that is 3632 06:00:32,320 --> 06:00:38,080 » my understanding is that is a civil infraction. Uh 3633 06:00:36,798 --> 06:00:43,760 » even multiple >> the the vendors, they are the ones that 3634 06:00:41,760 --> 06:00:48,240 would probably try to take that person to collection. We don't have to do 3635 06:00:45,920 --> 06:00:54,558 anything. All we have to do is approve it. Now, what their process is to try to 3636 06:00:51,680 --> 06:00:59,280 get that amount, I'm not sure. And this was just, you know, we just used it. 3637 06:00:56,240 --> 06:01:04,798 This vendor is a very reputable vendor. Uh, so I'm sure they ran into this 3638 06:01:02,480 --> 06:01:09,200 » in that area. It just is a matter of how many dollars that accumulates at $40 a 3639 06:01:07,280 --> 06:01:12,080 piece. Just say it would take a very long time for somebody to make it worth 3640 06:01:10,798 --> 06:01:17,360 to really go after. >> I would assume so. Yes. So he could just 3641 06:01:14,400 --> 06:01:22,240 keep speeding through there and >> Okay. 3642 06:01:20,160 --> 06:01:30,160 » Um but >> I I'm curious as to why it's uh 6 miles 3643 06:01:27,120 --> 06:01:34,160 an hour above the limit versus 10 miles. >> Yeah, I think I can answer that for you. 3644 06:01:32,400 --> 06:01:37,760 Um I think that from the vendor's perspective it's not viable for them. 3645 06:01:36,638 --> 06:01:42,240 » Oh >> obtaining enough violations 3646 06:01:40,638 --> 06:01:45,840 » for to you know make it worth their time and money to put in. 3647 06:01:43,600 --> 06:01:50,878 » It's kind of encouraging that [laughter] they're we have to go that low for 3648 06:01:48,718 --> 06:01:54,400 » Yes. And and of course once these would be out for a while they're their sense 3649 06:01:52,878 --> 06:01:56,878 of based on their experience is that we'll see far fewer violations. 3650 06:01:56,400 --> 06:01:59,920 » Y >> it's those numbers that are really going 3651 06:01:58,320 --> 06:02:04,958 to be the determiner of whether this is viable long term. and uh they think if 3652 06:02:03,280 --> 06:02:08,718 uh you know if they did their reductions by percentage I think there were some 3653 06:02:07,040 --> 06:02:13,440 locations that probably could result in about 500 violations. Now of course you 3654 06:02:12,000 --> 06:02:14,480 know winter may be different than summer. 3655 06:02:14,080 --> 06:02:18,000 » Oh yeah. >> They did this in the uh early summer as 3656 06:02:16,958 --> 06:02:21,280 I recall and >> and so we could see a reduction in the 3657 06:02:19,920 --> 06:02:25,600 numbers of people >> doing this in in the winter months. 3658 06:02:23,520 --> 06:02:31,280 » Perhaps they average out and make it up in the summer months. Um, I also just 3659 06:02:28,958 --> 06:02:35,280 for information purposes, um, I've been inquiring about obtaining a copy of an 3660 06:02:32,958 --> 06:02:39,120 RFQ from from somebody and what this vendor has told me from their experience 3661 06:02:36,958 --> 06:02:43,680 here, at least in Colorado, is they haven't had to use those because this is 3662 06:02:40,878 --> 06:02:47,760 basically revenue neutral. And so there's newly no money that I know of 3663 06:02:45,920 --> 06:02:51,280 going out up front from anyone. And in fact, I think the contract, if I 3664 06:02:49,120 --> 06:02:56,000 understood them correctly, is that if for some reason the system loses money, 3665 06:02:53,280 --> 06:03:00,480 we don't pay it. It's on them. Correct. So basically we don't have a lot of risk 3666 06:02:58,558 --> 06:03:05,280 here in that regard. >> Uh now I guess if somebody starts 3667 06:03:02,558 --> 06:03:10,320 shooting up the cameras then then our risk probably increases because 3668 06:03:06,878 --> 06:03:14,718 » well would it be useful to have our own cameras observing these cameras to see 3669 06:03:13,200 --> 06:03:18,080 who's actually >> vandalizing 3670 06:03:16,000 --> 06:03:21,600 » because we know they're going to. >> I'm not arguing with it at all. I I I 3671 06:03:20,080 --> 06:03:26,160 think that's probably prudent. At some point we may need to do that or we might 3672 06:03:23,200 --> 06:03:29,600 need to do that. We could get lucky and go six months out of the year and nobody 3673 06:03:27,760 --> 06:03:32,718 even bothers. But knowing people and human behavior as I do, someone's going 3674 06:03:31,600 --> 06:03:37,120 to get >> and and I was told even when I was 3675 06:03:34,718 --> 06:03:43,440 campaigning not to bother putting campaign signs on 103 because 3676 06:03:40,080 --> 06:03:50,878 » Oh, [clears throat and cough] did I did I hear you suggesting that you 3677 06:03:47,840 --> 06:03:54,878 may not you might not go to an RFP because we're not actually paying the 3678 06:03:52,798 --> 06:03:57,920 vendor. This was the vendor's um >> okay 3679 06:03:56,400 --> 06:04:02,798 » that they don't use they haven't had one submitted yet because their clients 3680 06:04:00,240 --> 06:04:05,920 other jurisdictions um I guess have viewed this as revenue neutral and so 3681 06:04:04,400 --> 06:04:07,200 they didn't feel the necessity. >> Okay, 3682 06:04:06,320 --> 06:04:10,558 » that's their perspective >> and we don't have an upfront cost that 3683 06:04:08,798 --> 06:04:13,120 we got to purchase all this equipment or do anything like that. 3684 06:04:11,920 --> 06:04:15,360 » That's their perspective. What's your perspective? 3685 06:04:13,600 --> 06:04:20,638 » No, we've already relayed I've already relayed my perspective to the sheriff's 3686 06:04:17,440 --> 06:04:24,558 office. We made it very clear. >> What did you make clear? Let us just get 3687 06:04:22,718 --> 06:04:28,000 the specifics of the details and and work on the procurement side outside of 3688 06:04:26,320 --> 06:04:31,440 the meeting. I think we need to look at the contract and and 3689 06:04:29,360 --> 06:04:36,000 » request for proposals is either needed or you have to do a cooperative purchase 3690 06:04:33,600 --> 06:04:39,040 based on our purchasing policy. One of those is required. From my 3691 06:04:37,360 --> 06:04:44,400 understanding, the vendor actually may have some agreements already with some 3692 06:04:41,680 --> 06:04:49,920 other municip some municipalities in the state. Um, if that's the case, we under 3693 06:04:47,760 --> 06:04:55,760 our purchasing policy can simply piggyback onto that um, RFP process if 3694 06:04:53,520 --> 06:04:58,240 it's been within the last couple years. >> Yeah. And I think they do have 3695 06:04:56,798 --> 06:05:00,718 agreements. I'm not advocating at this point that we do any. I'm just telling 3696 06:04:59,360 --> 06:05:04,878 you what they told me >> when I was inquiring about RFPs. This is 3697 06:05:02,878 --> 06:05:08,000 the response I got back from them that they don't have record of RFPs that I 3698 06:05:06,718 --> 06:05:11,200 know of in Colorado. I think they had one in Connecticut 3699 06:05:09,680 --> 06:05:14,400 » that they talked about. So, >> it's possible that information didn't 3700 06:05:12,718 --> 06:05:17,120 get to you. I'll I'll forward the email I sent to the sheriff 3701 06:05:16,400 --> 06:05:22,718 » and send it to them. >> The one concern that I see about this, 3702 06:05:18,718 --> 06:05:27,680 especially after seeing um the the CTIO presentation and they show one of their 3703 06:05:25,280 --> 06:05:33,600 big huge green boxes vandalized and thrown into the creek um that looked 3704 06:05:30,320 --> 06:05:37,200 like it was on a concrete pad. Um and somebody left a note. I'm not sure what 3705 06:05:35,440 --> 06:05:40,718 they were thinking, but we have the flock issue and people not understanding 3706 06:05:39,120 --> 06:05:44,718 the difference between Avisa's flock and all that in today's times, what does 3707 06:05:43,440 --> 06:05:51,360 that look like with >> that is my concern because it's going to 3708 06:05:48,000 --> 06:05:55,760 be their somebody see the signs, they'll see the camera and they're going to 3709 06:05:52,638 --> 06:06:04,240 automatically assume it's flock. And I think personally I think we will be 3710 06:05:59,920 --> 06:06:09,360 liable for a lot of damage damaged equipment stuff in the long run. And 3711 06:06:07,040 --> 06:06:15,200 what was the cost associated 3712 06:06:12,000 --> 06:06:20,878 uh to replace it was it was substantial. >> Yes, each camera is extremely expensive. 3713 06:06:19,040 --> 06:06:24,958 Now [clears throat] it also sort of depends on is the camera completely 3714 06:06:22,480 --> 06:06:29,120 destroyed or is a single component within the camera system damaged which 3715 06:06:26,798 --> 06:06:32,878 they can replace. Um, every situation would be different, but I think if we 3716 06:06:30,400 --> 06:06:38,480 were looking at camera entirely destroyed, 3717 06:06:35,520 --> 06:06:40,798 and this is just vague off the top of my head, 10 to 20,000 bucks for a camera or 3718 06:06:40,320 --> 06:06:43,120 something. >> About 20,000. 3719 06:06:41,920 --> 06:06:46,944 » Oh, close to 20,000. >> 20,000. Okay, now we understand the 3720 06:06:45,120 --> 06:06:48,962 business model. [laughter] 3721 06:06:49,120 --> 06:06:56,638 » There's no way that cost $20,000 to >> behaving people. 3722 06:06:52,958 --> 06:07:00,480 » Um, okay. So, a couple of things that uh are on my mind. 3723 06:06:59,040 --> 06:07:04,240 One is just as you're having conversations with vendors, um I've been 3724 06:07:02,638 --> 06:07:10,240 following this and what other counties are doing fairly closely. Other counties 3725 06:07:06,958 --> 06:07:15,280 and cities that have done this um have gotten some pretty problematic feedback 3726 06:07:11,920 --> 06:07:22,400 about how these private courts go. Uh, I I heard one story where somebody 3727 06:07:18,480 --> 06:07:27,440 um was forced out of one of the express lanes by a construction project. The 3728 06:07:24,718 --> 06:07:31,600 camera saw her leave the lane, >> mailed her a ticket. 3729 06:07:28,958 --> 06:07:37,280 » She provided evidence that, you know, that lane was under construction at that 3730 06:07:33,520 --> 06:07:41,280 time and and she actually got a denial within a couple of minutes of sending 3731 06:07:38,878 --> 06:07:46,480 the email. So, it appeared that this company was issuing automatic denials. 3732 06:07:44,080 --> 06:07:50,718 Um, and and I've heard some other stories that are kind of like similar 3733 06:07:47,760 --> 06:07:55,040 similar theme. Of course, civil liberties matter, being able to confront 3734 06:07:52,558 --> 06:07:58,718 your accusers, all that stuff. Um, so I just I just want to ask as you're 3735 06:07:56,480 --> 06:08:01,920 talking to vendors, you just ask them how they handle denials. Can they 3736 06:08:00,400 --> 06:08:06,240 establish to you that they actually look at them? Um, 3737 06:08:03,840 --> 06:08:09,520 » well, even if they didn't, we are. Every violation, we look at it. 3738 06:08:07,520 --> 06:08:13,360 » Do you look at the denials, too? don't know about the done else that it might 3739 06:08:11,920 --> 06:08:18,480 even be interesting to hear some stats about like okay of of the protests that 3740 06:08:15,440 --> 06:08:22,480 you get how many are successful and how many are not. Um because because my 3741 06:08:21,280 --> 06:08:25,440 understanding is this person's made a pet project and they're still she's 3742 06:08:23,600 --> 06:08:29,440 she's still just like making phone calls to a company that's not answering and 3743 06:08:27,040 --> 06:08:35,920 continuing to send. So that's one thing I just is a is a little bit of a flag. 3744 06:08:32,718 --> 06:08:40,000 Um this is not a reason I think like I'm not saying this is why I don't support 3745 06:08:37,600 --> 06:08:43,600 doing this. I can't think of another way for us to try to address the safety 3746 06:08:41,760 --> 06:08:46,080 issues that are happening than than doing speed cameras. 3747 06:08:44,878 --> 06:08:51,040 » And um >> is there any way of having a big sign 3748 06:08:48,798 --> 06:08:56,798 saying >> only reads license plates? This is not 3749 06:08:56,634 --> 06:09:00,400 [laughter] >> I suppose anything's possible. You know, 3750 06:08:59,040 --> 06:09:01,920 people can get mad at getting a photo radar ticket, too. 3751 06:09:01,520 --> 06:09:04,798 » Oh, yeah. >> Or they can say, "Ah, they're they're 3752 06:09:03,280 --> 06:09:07,920 lying. It really is a fly camera." you know, they're particularly paranoid fish 3753 06:09:06,958 --> 06:09:10,958 might be. >> Geez. Bless you. 3754 06:09:10,480 --> 06:09:14,798 » Um >> I'm imagining the blow up frog guy on 3755 06:09:13,120 --> 06:09:17,840 there and above it says not a flock camera. 3756 06:09:15,680 --> 06:09:25,040 » It's like a friendly reminder. >> But go ahead. I was just going to say 3757 06:09:20,718 --> 06:09:29,360 this is, you know, according to our problematic areas that we get all 3758 06:09:27,120 --> 06:09:34,958 these complaints. I mean, this was a 7-day period. And if you look at 3759 06:09:32,000 --> 06:09:42,000 » just 103 westbound, uh, based off of their daily averages, 3760 06:09:38,400 --> 06:09:50,558 you're looking at 24,73 speeders in a month. And, 3761 06:09:47,120 --> 06:09:54,400 you know, we can try to address as much as possible, 3762 06:09:52,718 --> 06:09:58,958 but we're never going to be able to reach these type of numbers. You're not 3763 06:09:56,558 --> 06:10:06,720 catching every one of these. Uh but you're looking at 124 a month average is 3764 06:10:03,440 --> 06:10:12,638 51 mph over the posted speed limit. [clears throat] 141 46 to 50. And you 3765 06:10:10,240 --> 06:10:17,680 know it's a it is definitely a problem. These complaints are legitimate. 3766 06:10:15,360 --> 06:10:22,080 » But this is just information for you guys because I know you guys receive the 3767 06:10:19,760 --> 06:10:28,000 complaints as well as we do. >> And it's just, you know, how can we help 3768 06:10:24,878 --> 06:10:33,440 mitigate this feeding issue? And this is just one option 3769 06:10:29,760 --> 06:10:40,718 » for $20,000 a pop. I think we can afford a couple uh or several uh game cams to 3770 06:10:37,120 --> 06:10:45,360 keep an eye on who's who's the prone to vandalize them. 3771 06:10:43,120 --> 06:10:49,440 » I would be concerned if if the company if one of them was vandalized. I mean, 3772 06:10:47,760 --> 06:10:53,200 it's it's one thing to cut the head of a camera off and it disappears. Well, 3773 06:10:50,958 --> 06:10:56,798 that's a that's an expensive deal, but if somebody takes a shot at it or bends 3774 06:10:55,040 --> 06:11:00,000 it or something, seems to me that they can probably repair it for less than the 3775 06:10:58,480 --> 06:11:04,240 full cost of the camera. Every situation is going to be different, 3776 06:11:01,200 --> 06:11:10,558 » right? Go ahead. >> I can I can also add that um 3777 06:11:07,280 --> 06:11:14,718 this company, they strike me as so far being pretty honest about things. They 3778 06:11:12,080 --> 06:11:19,520 don't they don't seem to be, you know, trying to uh unduly manipulate 3779 06:11:18,080 --> 06:11:22,638 uh things with this. They seem to be pretty upfront with it. But you never 3780 06:11:20,718 --> 06:11:26,718 know till you're, you know, you're in contract with someone how they're really 3781 06:11:24,240 --> 06:11:29,680 going to behave. Um, I mentioned to this person that, hey, you know, we may have 3782 06:11:28,160 --> 06:11:32,878 to, you know, this may have to be put out to RFP at some point. We don't have 3783 06:11:31,600 --> 06:11:35,200 any problem with that whatsoever because we're beating everybody else's. 3784 06:11:34,492 --> 06:11:39,520 [laughter] Um, but I think the latest model these 3785 06:11:37,760 --> 06:11:44,000 days, the model seems to be self-supporting. They don't charge the 3786 06:11:41,680 --> 06:11:47,600 client upfront, this sort of thing. And I suspect that the other companies are 3787 06:11:45,600 --> 06:11:50,480 probably doing something similar. There have been a few jurisdictions in 3788 06:11:48,798 --> 06:11:55,120 Colorado that got themselves in quite a bit of a bind using photo radar cameras, 3789 06:11:53,760 --> 06:11:59,680 not necessarily with this vendor, but just in general. They decided they 3790 06:11:57,440 --> 06:12:04,000 didn't like the limitations apparently of the state's fine by statute and they 3791 06:12:02,000 --> 06:12:08,320 decided they were going to set their own >> and they set them way high. Somebody 3792 06:12:06,798 --> 06:12:11,280 figured this out. I think they ended up refunding 3793 06:12:10,080 --> 06:12:15,280 hundreds of thousands or a million dollars. It was pretty ugly. So yeah, 3794 06:12:13,920 --> 06:12:21,600 there are certainly some safeguards >> and and I'm 3795 06:12:18,320 --> 06:12:27,600 you know from a legal standpoint there's a posted speed limit and if you violate 3796 06:12:24,798 --> 06:12:34,400 it you violate it. It's kind of like you know no-brainer. Um but why do we have 3797 06:12:31,120 --> 06:12:39,280 to have a big sign saying photo radar equipment right here? I mean 3798 06:12:36,558 --> 06:12:46,320 » it' be entrapment. Why is it in travel if they're knowingly violating the law? 3799 06:12:42,878 --> 06:12:47,600 » Anyway, that that's a irrelevant aside, but 3800 06:12:46,558 --> 06:12:52,718 » I'm speculating. >> What does the installation look like? Is 3801 06:12:49,760 --> 06:12:56,160 it off of polls existing or do you have to put 3802 06:12:53,280 --> 06:13:02,958 » They would have to They get the word needed either the county permit or C dot 3803 06:13:00,240 --> 06:13:05,280 permit process and then they put everything out. 3804 06:13:03,920 --> 06:13:10,320 » I I'm curious about what you were speculating about. Oh, lost my train of 3805 06:13:07,600 --> 06:13:12,958 thought here. The statute. I I'm speculating that the reason this is so 3806 06:13:11,840 --> 06:13:15,840 restrictive >> uh and that they want, you know, if 3807 06:13:14,320 --> 06:13:19,440 their signage is required and everything and we want to be complying is again, I 3808 06:13:18,160 --> 06:13:25,440 don't think the state wants this to become a money maker. I don't think they 3809 06:13:20,958 --> 06:13:29,040 want people to perceive this as uh some kind of an alternative tax no 3810 06:13:27,360 --> 06:13:32,400 » on citizens. People don't want their government sneaking around on them. 3811 06:13:30,320 --> 06:13:37,120 » They're speeding. They're speeding. You know, it's it's you know, every decent 3812 06:13:35,120 --> 06:13:40,480 driver is aware of how fast they're going. 3813 06:13:38,320 --> 06:13:42,878 » The politics for my mind in this are really clear. Maybe it's because I spent 3814 06:13:41,680 --> 06:13:47,520 time at the capital talking about this I70 uh talking about putting speed 3815 06:13:46,000 --> 06:13:52,000 cameras on I7. >> Um and and maybe it's just because I 3816 06:13:50,080 --> 06:13:56,240 agree with this sentiment. People don't want their government sneaking around on 3817 06:13:53,440 --> 06:14:00,638 them, right? It's law enforcement is supposed to be upfront and blatant and 3818 06:13:59,600 --> 06:14:03,600 » 40 miles an hour. >> Uh, you know, so 3819 06:14:01,920 --> 06:14:08,160 » you going 70, right? >> I just I just know that like the the 3820 06:14:06,160 --> 06:14:10,878 kind of backlash that you could get over trying to hide speed cameras is probably 3821 06:14:10,160 --> 06:14:14,878 not worth >> Well, no, we wouldn't do it because of 3822 06:14:12,480 --> 06:14:19,360 the state law, but I, as I said, that was irrelevant. Sorry for wasting time. 3823 06:14:16,718 --> 06:14:24,638 Um, one more topic which is, um, when I was looking through statute last winter, 3824 06:14:22,558 --> 06:14:27,680 I saw CD dot has a process to allow this. Have you guys looked at that or 3825 06:14:25,760 --> 06:14:31,360 had conversations with CD dot? I think we're not like in writing like yes, you 3826 06:14:29,680 --> 06:14:34,160 definitely can, but we can say, "Hey, look at all the driveways on this road. 3827 06:14:32,798 --> 06:14:37,680 You should call this residential and let us do this." 3828 06:14:35,120 --> 06:14:41,840 » Is that how you plan to do it? >> C do is is going to coordinate the 3829 06:14:39,600 --> 06:14:44,638 cameras, I believe, on Interstate 70. I think that's their main focus. I think 3830 06:14:43,280 --> 06:14:49,120 what we're doing here are county highways or county roads. Uh they're 3831 06:14:47,120 --> 06:14:51,680 » that's a state road, right? 103 >> and that C dot would have to be involved 3832 06:14:50,878 --> 06:14:54,240 in that one. >> Okay. 3833 06:14:52,080 --> 06:14:57,120 » Oh, so you think C do DOT may install the 103 count? 3834 06:14:55,440 --> 06:14:59,920 » They won't. They would just there's just a permitting process for it 3835 06:14:58,958 --> 06:15:04,558 » for their rightway >> or their Oh, okay. So, what I'm 3836 06:15:02,320 --> 06:15:08,000 referring to is just the authority that we have to install cameras at all. 3837 06:15:06,480 --> 06:15:12,160 Right. And and we have authority to install cameras in pretty limited 3838 06:15:09,360 --> 06:15:16,480 context. Um, one of the ways that you can derive that authority is to like 3839 06:15:14,400 --> 06:15:18,000 count the driveways that that are accessed, right? 3840 06:15:17,440 --> 06:15:21,200 » Residential >> and and say, "Look, look at how many 3841 06:15:19,360 --> 06:15:24,000 driveways are accessing Highway 103 right here. This is a residential road. 3842 06:15:22,400 --> 06:15:27,760 We need to put a camera up." >> Um, but we don't have to get into that 3843 06:15:25,680 --> 06:15:31,520 here. I mean, it's I I think it's probably worth it to have a conversation 3844 06:15:29,440 --> 06:15:35,040 with CO about how they're interpreting statute and our authority to install 3845 06:15:33,440 --> 06:15:40,558 these cameras and where. >> Yeah. Yeah, just to be clear, we can't 3846 06:15:37,600 --> 06:15:45,040 install these cameras on state roads in coordination with C do until we've 3847 06:15:42,000 --> 06:15:49,360 updated our model traffic code. We need to be under the 2024 model traffic code. 3848 06:15:47,200 --> 06:15:52,000 » Okay. Well, understand that may be something that's 3849 06:15:50,718 --> 06:15:55,280 in process or look being >> I reached out to the sheriff's office a 3850 06:15:53,600 --> 06:15:58,240 couple weeks ago about it. I haven't heard back. 3851 06:15:56,480 --> 06:16:00,638 » Okay. Yeah, I'm I'm certainly willing to get it on the calendar as soon as you're 3852 06:15:59,760 --> 06:16:04,000 ready. >> Listen, this is something you just 3853 06:16:02,480 --> 06:16:08,958 discussed. uh about these problem areas. We had the 3854 06:16:07,200 --> 06:16:13,360 study done and this is just presenting the evidence 3855 06:16:10,320 --> 06:16:17,520 » that they submitted to us and >> uh 3856 06:16:15,120 --> 06:16:21,600 it's not a revenue generation thing with you know just the amount of it the 3857 06:16:19,840 --> 06:16:25,440 amount of the fines which is set by statute 3858 06:16:22,958 --> 06:16:31,360 » uh and they're taking a portion of that just for their processing. So uh and 3859 06:16:28,878 --> 06:16:38,558 paying for the equipment. It's not about a revenue generation. It's hopefully 3860 06:16:34,480 --> 06:16:44,558 uh 103 and Fall River Road. Fall River Road is definitely the residential area. 3861 06:16:41,680 --> 06:16:49,520 103 we could easily be within the residential requirements on 103. Plus, 3862 06:16:47,520 --> 06:16:53,520 you have all the bicyclists >> that are riding up through there. But 3863 06:16:51,440 --> 06:17:00,080 when you're looking at an average speed of 3864 06:16:55,040 --> 06:17:03,200 uh 66 mph or 71 mph in a 35 mph zone, that that's a problem. Yes. And 3865 06:17:02,240 --> 06:17:10,480 » yes, >> the fact that, you know, we would have 3866 06:17:06,320 --> 06:17:14,000 to have hundreds of deputies just every just lined up sitting there waiting on 3867 06:17:12,000 --> 06:17:21,200 them and it's just impossible for us to be able to make that kind of impact. 3868 06:17:18,558 --> 06:17:26,320 » Well, I I totally support this. I just think we need to have cameras on the 3869 06:17:23,360 --> 06:17:30,878 cameras to help protect our investment. >> Oh, and you wouldn't be the first 3870 06:17:27,760 --> 06:17:33,600 person, I think, who has suggested that in general. I mean, I I really like 3871 06:17:32,240 --> 06:17:38,080 this. I think I think I'm hearing that we all want to support you in doing 3872 06:17:35,440 --> 06:17:42,638 this. Uh I know you've seen in our goals, we've we've said support the 3873 06:17:40,160 --> 06:17:46,958 sheriff's office pursuing speed cameras. So, is there anything specific that you 3874 06:17:44,400 --> 06:17:53,360 need from us other than saying thank you for taking this step? 3875 06:17:48,718 --> 06:17:58,558 » No, I mean, uh I would think what would need to be done next would be we've got 3876 06:17:56,400 --> 06:18:01,600 to get our model traffic code updated. Okay. 3877 06:17:58,878 --> 06:18:07,120 » Get get that set up. And then if we just once we get to that stage, if we want to 3878 06:18:04,240 --> 06:18:12,558 continue pursuing this, then we could look at other vendors and you know go 3879 06:18:09,680 --> 06:18:17,120 through this whole RFP thing uh and figure it out and you know narrow this 3880 06:18:14,878 --> 06:18:21,600 down. And I said this information was just one vendor, one study over a week 3881 06:18:20,638 --> 06:18:25,920 period. >> Wow. 3882 06:18:22,080 --> 06:18:29,040 » And so I just wanted all I wanted to do was we had been talking about this. We 3883 06:18:27,680 --> 06:18:32,718 got the information. And I wanted to present the information and the findings 3884 06:18:31,440 --> 06:18:37,040 just for that seven. >> I had no idea it was this bed. I've had 3885 06:18:35,200 --> 06:18:40,400 a lot of complaints as I'm sure my colleagues have too. And 3886 06:18:39,040 --> 06:18:44,160 » I had no idea. Thank you. >> I get to see the bottom of the Idaho 3887 06:18:42,080 --> 06:18:47,440 Springs right from my house. Yep. >> And I just watch these trains of 3888 06:18:45,840 --> 06:18:51,040 Corvettes >> both directions and just and you can see 3889 06:18:49,040 --> 06:18:53,840 them speed as soon as as soon as they hit that speed limit sign, you can see 3890 06:18:52,558 --> 06:18:58,558 them just take off. >> Yeah. 3891 06:18:55,760 --> 06:19:01,840 That's not and this is was done during the summer like you said during the 3892 06:19:00,638 --> 06:19:09,360 winter time you're probably going to have a huge drop off. Uh 3893 06:19:05,360 --> 06:19:14,878 so I think you know over a year's time you're probably going 3894 06:19:11,760 --> 06:19:18,798 to come out maybe breaking even or just you know even 3895 06:19:16,320 --> 06:19:23,440 » we're not going to we don't get build from this company 3896 06:19:20,958 --> 06:19:27,680 or anything. they just take that percentage and then that's 3897 06:19:25,440 --> 06:19:32,480 » and you know when we do get these up I think we should probably do a campaign 3898 06:19:29,920 --> 06:19:39,680 through our uh public information officer to let people know this is not a 3899 06:19:35,280 --> 06:19:41,920 money maker it's safety and um >> and 3900 06:19:40,160 --> 06:19:46,718 » even give some of the stats which I think are appalling 3901 06:19:42,958 --> 06:19:50,240 » I I would like to see during your guys when you know we're out and about is 3902 06:19:48,638 --> 06:19:54,400 talking with the community and see you know what are their ideas how we can 3903 06:19:52,558 --> 06:19:58,798 help mitigate this. >> Uh, you know, engage the community in it 3904 06:19:57,040 --> 06:20:01,520 because there, you know, initially I'm sure there's going to be a lot of 3905 06:19:59,840 --> 06:20:02,798 community members that get caught speeding. 3906 06:20:02,240 --> 06:20:04,638 » Mhm. >> And 3907 06:20:03,440 --> 06:20:09,120 » I'll have a conversation with my husband. [laughter] 3908 06:20:06,718 --> 06:20:13,440 » Um, but, you know, I just think, you know, the majority of the people that 3909 06:20:10,958 --> 06:20:20,160 come through here coming over 103 going up Fall River Road is people visiting. 3910 06:20:17,840 --> 06:20:25,280 It's not necessarily the residents. Not saying we're not residents. We don't 3911 06:20:22,558 --> 06:20:32,160 speed or anything like that, but the majority of the traffic that comes 3912 06:20:27,520 --> 06:20:37,600 through this county is the visitors and how can we address that? What tools can 3913 06:20:34,718 --> 06:20:42,798 we use to address this problem because we certainly can't afford to put or 3914 06:20:40,558 --> 06:20:45,520 can't staff that many people to try to address this problem. 3915 06:20:45,200 --> 06:20:50,000 But >> there's areas I think about like when I 3916 06:20:47,200 --> 06:20:52,638 go up to Boulder and I change, I'm a little more conscious of my speed 3917 06:20:51,440 --> 06:20:56,240 because I know >> and I think that's a whole idea is to 3918 06:20:54,080 --> 06:20:58,958 get people's behavior to change and >> correct 3919 06:20:57,040 --> 06:21:01,840 » um you know as word gets out of course somebody from Illinois or whatever 3920 06:21:00,400 --> 06:21:06,240 that's that's a whole different thing but locals people that are day trippers 3921 06:21:04,638 --> 06:21:08,718 or whatever that are constantly coming up I think I think it could be 3922 06:21:08,160 --> 06:21:14,000 successful >> people renting a sports car for the 3923 06:21:10,160 --> 06:21:17,760 weekend just a sign itself. Yeah. And change people. 3924 06:21:14,638 --> 06:21:23,760 » Uh, you know, the cycling community up on Highway 103, they're they love seeing 3925 06:21:20,718 --> 06:21:28,638 us up there and, uh, they stop and talk to me a lot when I'm up there and, you 3926 06:21:26,558 --> 06:21:32,558 know, get their input. How can we help them? What can we do to make it safer 3927 06:21:30,878 --> 06:21:38,600 for them? >> And this is just a piece of technology 3928 06:21:35,040 --> 06:21:38,600 that can help 3929 06:21:39,120 --> 06:21:45,680 mitigate a little p a little bit of the problems. Mhm. 3930 06:21:42,558 --> 06:21:50,080 » But I think that a huge portion or there's going to be a large number of 3931 06:21:47,840 --> 06:21:54,320 people that are going to see these as flock cameras 3932 06:21:51,920 --> 06:21:58,114 and that we're going to have some vandalism to them [clears throat] 3933 06:21:58,558 --> 06:22:05,520 » and and probably your worst violators of this will the sport bikes probably won't 3934 06:22:03,760 --> 06:22:08,400 do much to deter them. >> Yeah. They don't I mean they come up 3935 06:22:06,878 --> 06:22:11,200 there they flip the plates up or just remove them purposely because they 3936 06:22:10,080 --> 06:22:12,878 intend to >> right 3937 06:22:11,600 --> 06:22:17,200 » drive in this fashion and they're not inclined to be held accountable for it 3938 06:22:14,718 --> 06:22:20,000 and they don't intend to stop. >> Wow. 3939 06:22:19,120 --> 06:22:24,160 » Um >> and sorry go ahead. 3940 06:22:21,280 --> 06:22:28,480 » The only you asked what other solutions we're hearing from people. The only 3941 06:22:26,000 --> 06:22:33,600 other one I hear that feels viable is, and I think it has 3942 06:22:30,878 --> 06:22:37,680 engineering challenges, is, you know, speed bumps, 3943 06:22:35,280 --> 06:22:40,000 » but the snow plows wouldn't like that. >> Engineering challenges. 3944 06:22:38,558 --> 06:22:42,798 » Fire truck probably wouldn't like it. Snow plows. 3945 06:22:41,280 --> 06:22:47,280 » The first person who gets thrown off their motorcycle or ends up in a ditches 3946 06:22:45,760 --> 06:22:51,840 that the county looks like it has deep pockets. 3947 06:22:50,160 --> 06:22:56,958 » Yeah, we tend to do pretty good in those challenges. Anyway, um um that's I I 3948 06:22:55,440 --> 06:23:00,520 said that was my last thing a while back and 3949 06:22:57,520 --> 06:23:00,520 » but 3950 06:23:00,958 --> 06:23:03,958 uh 3951 06:23:05,200 --> 06:23:12,718 yeah, in the exhibit B 3952 06:23:10,558 --> 06:23:20,480 for the attachments, uh it's got a breakdown of the fees and 3953 06:23:16,160 --> 06:23:26,240 stuff. And the last bullet point out of me, you know, it's a costneutral 3954 06:23:22,878 --> 06:23:31,760 service. Uh, and there and there it says, you know, even if we terminated 3955 06:23:28,798 --> 06:23:35,280 the agreement and there was any amounts unpaid or whatever, you know, they're 3956 06:23:33,360 --> 06:23:40,040 not going to there's no out of pocket from the county. It's just going to be a 3957 06:23:37,040 --> 06:23:40,040 wash. 3958 06:23:41,120 --> 06:23:48,958 And then sorry. 3959 06:23:44,798 --> 06:23:52,280 » Do you support moving forward with it? >> I don't. 3960 06:23:52,320 --> 06:23:59,520 Excuse me. >> I don't I'm not 100% against the idea. I 3961 06:23:56,320 --> 06:24:06,160 just think right now is not a good time with the sentiment toward 3962 06:24:03,360 --> 06:24:11,120 uh the big uh the flock, the big push against flock and everything. uh and 3963 06:24:08,558 --> 06:24:14,958 with the you know there's going to be asking the 3964 06:24:12,480 --> 06:24:19,680 same questions with this how are what data is being collected are you tracking 3965 06:24:16,878 --> 06:24:23,920 us you know how is this and is is this really any different than a flock system 3966 06:24:22,320 --> 06:24:29,200 besides this one gives you a ticket and flock didn't 3967 06:24:26,080 --> 06:24:36,878 so there I'm not 100% against it I'm just not don't think it's now is a good 3968 06:24:32,558 --> 06:24:43,440 time with the my personal opinion >> and the They gave the there's the four 3969 06:24:39,600 --> 06:24:48,558 different locations. Um would you want all four if to move 3970 06:24:45,520 --> 06:24:56,240 forward say in a different world or would you pick one of those locations? 3971 06:24:51,440 --> 06:25:00,798 » I would prefer I would want uh the four. >> And so on the replacement of the 3972 06:24:57,680 --> 06:25:05,440 cameras, is that one per location like the first one gets vandalized or is that 3973 06:25:02,958 --> 06:25:10,320 one per contract? per there's per camera per location. 3974 06:25:08,798 --> 06:25:15,840 So, >> you know, my my other concern is the 3975 06:25:13,680 --> 06:25:21,280 cost of the vandalism because if we're responsible 3976 06:25:17,760 --> 06:25:28,718 » um that that could add up. >> I I wouldn't try to persuade you. 3977 06:25:24,798 --> 06:25:33,680 It's worth chasing this down and knowing knowing what it looks like so that 3978 06:25:32,080 --> 06:25:37,280 we can continue to evaluate how conversations about cameras are 3979 06:25:34,878 --> 06:25:40,878 evolving. Uh you make a good point around I mean people are on social media 3980 06:25:39,600 --> 06:25:44,240 bragging about tearing down flot cameras. 3981 06:25:41,840 --> 06:25:49,040 » Um >> we could see that situation resolve 3982 06:25:46,798 --> 06:25:53,600 itself as early as next session, next legislative session. Uh maybe not, 3983 06:25:51,200 --> 06:25:58,718 maybe. Um, >> is now to to make yourself a fake flat 3984 06:25:57,520 --> 06:26:00,638 camera so you can walk around and pretend like you cut one down. 3985 06:26:00,240 --> 06:26:04,160 » Yeah. >> Oh, no. [laughter] Don't end up in jail, 3986 06:26:02,320 --> 06:26:08,000 but you still look like a hero. >> But so I I think that's that's what I 3987 06:26:06,638 --> 06:26:11,280 would try to persuade you is is this worth continuing to try to chase us down 3988 06:26:09,520 --> 06:26:17,520 and we can evaluate how this situation is evolving. Um, what I think about the 3989 06:26:14,958 --> 06:26:20,718 people of Clear Creek, and I could be wrong on this, but I've been talking 3990 06:26:19,040 --> 06:26:24,000 very, very openly about trying to use speed cameras, and I think the people of 3991 06:26:22,080 --> 06:26:29,360 Clear Creek will thank you, and they are the people that we answer to. It is, and 3992 06:26:26,718 --> 06:26:33,200 that so I would like to continue that conversation. You like I said, I'm not 3993 06:26:30,798 --> 06:26:39,280 100% against this. I think we need all the help we can get to hand, you know, 3994 06:26:35,040 --> 06:26:44,320 with these problems. But also, I don't want to increase, 3995 06:26:41,840 --> 06:26:48,718 you know, liability to us with the cost of having 3996 06:26:46,638 --> 06:26:56,080 to replace cameras and stuff like that until we get a until there's a better 3997 06:26:51,440 --> 06:27:01,920 answer for this flock de debate. >> And but I think it's something we can 3998 06:26:59,040 --> 06:27:06,320 continue to look into and It sounds like the process is going to take a while if 3999 06:27:03,680 --> 06:27:10,638 we need to change our regulations. Yes. >> You need to because of our county 4000 06:27:07,920 --> 06:27:15,360 regulations. Um >> other bids. 4001 06:27:11,840 --> 06:27:19,440 » Correct. And I don't see this being something you know 4002 06:27:17,840 --> 06:27:23,280 would happen this year. It would be spring summer of next year before this 4003 06:27:21,840 --> 06:27:25,200 would be viable. >> Okay. 4004 06:27:24,638 --> 06:27:30,320 » But during >> and maybe the hoopla will die down a 4005 06:27:28,080 --> 06:27:36,878 bit. It's possible these kind of numbers that in seven days 4006 06:27:34,160 --> 06:27:41,760 is that shows you how huge the problem is and we [clears throat] need to do 4007 06:27:39,040 --> 06:27:44,760 whatever we can to try to help mitigate that. 4008 06:27:45,040 --> 06:27:52,478 » Sheriff did mention that these violation numbers you're seeing here are based on 4009 06:27:50,558 --> 06:27:55,360 enforcement at 6 milesPH over the speed limit. Mhm. [clears throat] 4010 06:27:53,840 --> 06:27:58,638 » So that's going to catch that's going to 4011 06:27:56,718 --> 06:28:02,080 raise some eyebrows I think being at six over 4012 06:28:00,160 --> 06:28:04,958 » and without that apparently the court and the bender anyway their opinion is 4013 06:28:03,680 --> 06:28:10,000 it probably wouldn't generate enough violations. So just I think things 4014 06:28:07,840 --> 06:28:13,760 something to be prepared for. Uh people may perceive that as well clearly you 4015 06:28:11,760 --> 06:28:17,600 did that because you just want to you know get the cash out of us. 4016 06:28:15,520 --> 06:28:22,638 » You know we we can help pass the word too. you know, if it's not really viable 4017 06:28:20,240 --> 06:28:31,200 until next year in our town halls, we can say um this is revenue neutral um 4018 06:28:27,680 --> 06:28:35,200 for the county, but it's safety huge. >> It's all about safety. 4019 06:28:32,478 --> 06:28:42,160 » Yep. And with Fall River and Highway 103 are 4020 06:28:39,040 --> 06:28:46,240 the two the largest amount of visitors are going 4021 06:28:44,638 --> 06:28:52,000 through those areas >> that are not local and don't understand 4022 06:28:48,478 --> 06:28:56,160 the terrain or don't understand the the side traffic on the roads and stuff like 4023 06:28:53,920 --> 06:29:02,160 that or the neighborhoods. >> And this would definitely help. And like 4024 06:28:59,840 --> 06:29:07,120 you know Jody said, you know, we know when you go to Boulder, you know, you 4025 06:29:04,080 --> 06:29:12,878 you okay, we know Boulder has these and you change your driving habits and 4026 06:29:10,718 --> 06:29:16,320 hopefully that would get out after a period of time. And that's what would 4027 06:29:14,320 --> 06:29:21,440 happen here. People change their driving habits when they're here instead of 4028 06:29:18,160 --> 06:29:26,080 treating it like a racetrack. >> Yeah. It's like the attitude of, oh, 4029 06:29:24,638 --> 06:29:30,080 we're going to go up to Clear Creek and we can do anything we want. It just 4030 06:29:27,840 --> 06:29:33,200 really is annoying. >> Agreed. 4031 06:29:31,978 --> 06:29:39,680 [laughter] >> But uh we can continue looking into 4032 06:29:36,160 --> 06:29:42,958 stuff and uh keep moving this forward and uh just give you regular updates as 4033 06:29:42,400 --> 06:29:46,080 we go. >> Sure. And with respect to the 4034 06:29:44,320 --> 06:29:50,958 regulations, we can get our ducks in a row before you pull the trigger on. 4035 06:29:47,920 --> 06:29:54,718 » Yeah. And because the 2024 uh model traffic code that's something was 4036 06:29:52,240 --> 06:30:01,920 already working on and it's being worked on uh outside of this. So uh it's not 4037 06:29:59,680 --> 06:30:06,958 like we we're waiting on that or you know that's a key element. 4038 06:30:03,920 --> 06:30:12,400 » Great. But we'll just keep uh working toward this and then uh 4039 06:30:09,600 --> 06:30:17,600 hopefully by spring summer of next year we'll be able to have uh something in 4040 06:30:15,200 --> 06:30:23,200 place and be able to address some of these things come in. 4041 06:30:20,000 --> 06:30:28,440 » Great. Well, thank you. Thank you very much. 4042 06:30:25,040 --> 06:30:28,440 » Thank you guys. 4043 06:30:31,760 --> 06:30:36,958 » We are going to take a five minute break. word be a little bit longer. 4044 06:30:34,958 --> 06:30:43,958 » Uh 10. How much? >> Uh 15 minute break. Thank you. 4045 06:30:40,718 --> 06:30:43,958 » You t 4046 06:45:05,040 --> 06:45:13,840 Fair Creek Board of County Commissioners is back in session uh for a work session 4047 06:45:11,040 --> 06:45:19,040 presentation and discussion of Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry. Um, 4048 06:45:16,718 --> 06:45:21,280 uh, short-term rental ordinance. Uh, David Daniels. 4049 06:45:20,478 --> 06:45:23,600 » Hi. >> Hi. 4050 06:45:22,080 --> 06:45:27,280 » Obviously, we're here for short-term rental ordinance update. A little bit of 4051 06:45:25,920 --> 06:45:32,240 background on the short-term rental ordinance. It was adopted in December of 4052 06:45:29,600 --> 06:45:36,478 2024. Prior to that time, short-term rentals were regulated through the 4053 06:45:33,600 --> 06:45:39,680 zoning code as a permitted special use. Staff has now administered the 4054 06:45:37,920 --> 06:45:44,240 short-term rental licensing program for over a year. During that time, they've 4055 06:45:42,240 --> 06:45:48,320 seen and experienced how the ordinance functions administratively. We've noted 4056 06:45:46,958 --> 06:45:51,360 some areas of improvements that can strengthen, clarify, and add 4057 06:45:49,680 --> 06:45:56,638 efficiencies without changing the policy's intent. Today, we're seeking 4058 06:45:53,600 --> 06:46:01,520 the board's um direction before we proceed with any proposed changes or 4059 06:45:58,638 --> 06:46:05,440 updates to the Redline ordinance. Um planning and building services have 4060 06:46:03,040 --> 06:46:09,520 conducted a community engagement survey to receive program feedback, understand 4061 06:46:07,520 --> 06:46:14,638 the community priorities, and to guide decisions where appropriate. Items uh 4062 06:46:12,400 --> 06:46:19,440 covered were insurance requirements, proximity requirements, the STR cap, and 4063 06:46:17,760 --> 06:46:24,558 provided an opportunity for written response for the respondents to discuss 4064 06:46:21,840 --> 06:46:27,840 anything regarding the ordinance. These were the areas staff had the most 4065 06:46:26,240 --> 06:46:32,200 interaction with license holders and non-licensed community members. 4066 06:46:36,080 --> 06:46:44,320 the process overview, what we're going to um get into through this update, our 4067 06:46:41,520 --> 06:46:48,240 proposed steps and where we're at now. Staff has reviewed the existing 4068 06:46:45,920 --> 06:46:53,280 ordinance. We've made initial redline changes in development. We've completed 4069 06:46:50,478 --> 06:46:58,000 the community engagement uh survey and right now we're seeking the board's 4070 06:46:55,200 --> 06:47:01,600 feedback. Today we're going to um review the community engagement survey, 4071 06:47:00,160 --> 06:47:06,080 identify the board's priorities, concerns, and direction. And uh we're 4072 06:47:04,000 --> 06:47:10,400 not going to make any specific recommend recommendations or changes to the 4073 06:47:08,478 --> 06:47:13,680 ordinance today. After today, we're going to have 4074 06:47:11,840 --> 06:47:17,520 additional work sessions. There's proposed two of them. In between those 4075 06:47:15,280 --> 06:47:22,080 two work sessions, we're going to engage the community members again with another 4076 06:47:19,360 --> 06:47:25,840 community engagement survey. There'll be a first reading and an order for 4077 06:47:24,160 --> 06:47:30,240 publication and then a second reading for final adoption. The ordinance is 4078 06:47:28,400 --> 06:47:36,040 proposed to become effective 30 days after that initial um or that second 4079 06:47:33,040 --> 06:47:36,040 reading. 4080 06:47:38,240 --> 06:47:45,040 Uh what is the timeline for this ordinance update? Currently, we have 4081 06:47:42,718 --> 06:47:49,200 targeted to have the ordinance updated by the end of 2026. 4082 06:47:47,600 --> 06:47:54,478 That means there would there would be multiple work sessions coming up in 4083 06:47:51,600 --> 06:48:00,760 October and November and uh first reading at the end of November with the 4084 06:47:56,718 --> 06:48:00,760 second reading in December. 4085 06:48:05,520 --> 06:48:12,440 Megan, if you would pull up the survey overview for me. 4086 06:48:15,040 --> 06:48:23,760 » You're looking for this one. Yes. Okay. Yes. Okay. So, our community 4087 06:48:21,760 --> 06:48:29,200 engagement survey was conducted between April 23rd, 2026 and June 21st of this 4088 06:48:27,200 --> 06:48:33,040 year. It's important to note that the survey was distributed to all STR 4089 06:48:31,440 --> 06:48:38,878 license holders. We have their contact emails. Uh we directly emailed them, 4090 06:48:35,680 --> 06:48:44,638 informed them of the the survey. Of all of those STR license holders, about 25% 4091 06:48:41,520 --> 06:48:48,080 of them did provide a response. Uh the general public was notified through the 4092 06:48:46,878 --> 06:48:52,080 planning and building services notification. So they would only have 4093 06:48:50,320 --> 06:48:55,760 gotten a notification if they signed up for the planning and building services 4094 06:48:53,360 --> 06:49:00,000 notifications. And it was also posted to our short-term rental web page. Other 4095 06:48:58,000 --> 06:49:05,958 than that, it would have been um just general word of mouth and circulation 4096 06:49:02,000 --> 06:49:05,958 for the general public. 4097 06:49:06,160 --> 06:49:17,440 During our um engagement survey, we received 130 responses. uh 129 of those 4098 06:49:12,558 --> 06:49:21,280 were anonymous. Uh 57 were unlicensed community members. So we have about a 4099 06:49:19,280 --> 06:49:25,080 50-50 representation of license holders and non-licensed holders. 4100 06:49:27,760 --> 06:49:34,240 Majority of the respondents were standard license type holders. Um these 4101 06:49:31,600 --> 06:49:38,718 all selfidentified. The remainder were primary resident license type holders 4102 06:49:36,798 --> 06:49:44,440 and weight list applicants. We did want to make sure that we included weight 4103 06:49:39,920 --> 06:49:44,440 list applicants in there. 4104 06:49:46,240 --> 06:49:52,320 The first item they were asked about were insurance requirements, whether 4105 06:49:50,160 --> 06:49:55,680 those were reasonable or unreasonable. Uh the insurance requirement was one of 4106 06:49:54,558 --> 06:49:59,520 the most contested parts of the ordinance 19 for us over the last year. 4107 06:49:57,600 --> 06:50:03,200 We had a lot of interaction with short-term rental license holders 4108 06:50:00,958 --> 06:50:08,080 regarding the specific requirements of that insurance. Um staff had created the 4109 06:50:06,638 --> 06:50:11,600 review authority does have some authority to create internal processes 4110 06:50:09,920 --> 06:50:15,120 and procedures. We have adapted those internal processes and procedures to 4111 06:50:13,360 --> 06:50:19,520 help smooth out some of those insurance requirements currently but we would 4112 06:50:17,600 --> 06:50:24,638 suggest updating and making some adjustments to the insurance 4113 06:50:20,718 --> 06:50:28,320 requirements for clarity and um just building them out. Go ahead. 4114 06:50:26,718 --> 06:50:33,200 » Yeah, this is >> common themes that we received from the 4115 06:50:30,638 --> 06:50:38,320 respondents were the requirement should uh use language that matches commonly 4116 06:50:35,440 --> 06:50:42,718 available STR insurance products. I don't know how real that is or how 4117 06:50:40,878 --> 06:50:47,120 obtainable that is. Every carrier seems to have their own version and they're 4118 06:50:44,478 --> 06:50:50,718 still very um early in their development. So, there's not really 4119 06:50:48,320 --> 06:50:56,798 standardized language across insurance products for short-term rentals um 4120 06:50:54,558 --> 06:51:03,520 policies. They would like the acceptable proof of 4121 06:50:59,040 --> 06:51:08,478 insurance clearly defined. Um staff has defined and communicated uh how we would 4122 06:51:05,760 --> 06:51:12,080 like to see that proof of insurance clearly. Uh currently, we could include 4123 06:51:10,320 --> 06:51:15,920 that into the ordinance. uh guest personal property and theft language 4124 06:51:13,600 --> 06:51:19,840 should be removed or clarified and minimum limits or acceptable 4125 06:51:17,600 --> 06:51:25,760 supplemental uh platform coverage should be stated. Generally stating um our 4126 06:51:23,040 --> 06:51:29,200 short-term rental license doesn't establish the minimum coverages. It 4127 06:51:27,680 --> 06:51:33,840 doesn't say, "Hey, you shall have minimum $10,000 theft coverage or 4128 06:51:31,840 --> 06:51:37,840 $300,000 personal injury or anything like this." So technically speaking, any 4129 06:51:36,000 --> 06:51:43,520 minimum insurance requirement would be meeting the requirements of the 4130 06:51:40,000 --> 06:51:49,280 ordinance. So, if um that's one area if we chose to build that out, 4131 06:51:46,958 --> 06:51:51,760 we could um develop or if we decide that the insurance requirement is really 4132 06:51:50,558 --> 06:51:57,878 something that we shouldn't be involved with, that's another potential option 4133 06:51:54,240 --> 06:51:57,878 going down the road. 4134 06:51:58,080 --> 06:52:07,840 Uh boundary and adjoining STR restrictions. Um 4135 06:52:03,840 --> 06:52:12,718 most everybody was aware of the rule. Um most everybody didn't think the rule was 4136 06:52:09,760 --> 06:52:17,600 very effective. Um there was a number of applicants or respondents that the 4137 06:52:15,200 --> 06:52:24,400 abounding property requirement did affect them uh directly. Our weight list 4138 06:52:20,958 --> 06:52:29,040 is currently dying individuals long. Seven of those individuals on the wait 4139 06:52:26,478 --> 06:52:33,600 list if offered if a license did come available would not be eligible for a 4140 06:52:31,600 --> 06:52:38,638 standard license type because of adjoining property requirements. 4141 06:52:36,400 --> 06:52:42,400 » Uh let me to get on the wait list you have to I thought you had to 4142 06:52:40,878 --> 06:52:47,120 successfully apply to get onto the weight list. So yes, there's a there's 4143 06:52:45,280 --> 06:52:51,200 an application process. They have to demonstrate the insurance requirements 4144 06:52:50,080 --> 06:52:55,280 or they don't actually have to demonstrate the insurance requirements 4145 06:52:52,478 --> 06:53:00,160 initially. Pass a STR safety inspection, right? Um so we go out, we do a safety 4146 06:52:58,240 --> 06:53:04,160 inspection, they do the initial application and review fees, we receive 4147 06:53:02,080 --> 06:53:08,000 those, then they get on the wait list. you would still need to be on the wait 4148 06:53:05,600 --> 06:53:10,798 list um to maintain a spot if you did have an adjoining property that was 4149 06:53:09,600 --> 06:53:14,000 restricting you from getting licensed because you don't know if your 4150 06:53:11,920 --> 06:53:16,558 neighboring property when or if your neighboring property is going to release 4151 06:53:15,120 --> 06:53:22,360 their STR license. It might be your neighbor releases theirs and you're 4152 06:53:18,080 --> 06:53:22,360 immediately that next person available. 4153 06:53:22,558 --> 06:53:29,920 Comments related to the adjoining property requirements. Um they describe 4154 06:53:26,240 --> 06:53:36,400 them as arbitrary. Um they say that they can at times um 4155 06:53:33,600 --> 06:53:42,798 really restrict specific properties for a long duration of time because of they 4156 06:53:39,360 --> 06:53:45,200 have a 4.5% cap limit just because they have the unfortunate 4157 06:53:44,080 --> 06:53:48,558 of having a neighboring property adjoining them. They feel like they're 4158 06:53:46,878 --> 06:53:52,718 treated differently even though the ordinance applies broadly across to 4159 06:53:50,478 --> 06:53:56,558 everybody. um somebody's eligibility could be affected for several years with 4160 06:53:54,718 --> 06:54:00,360 the adjoining property requirement as currently written written. 4161 06:54:01,920 --> 06:54:08,718 There's a number of individuals um that are out there that are looking at 4162 06:54:06,718 --> 06:54:14,240 properties in Clear Creek County that have contacted staff and directly ask us 4163 06:54:11,840 --> 06:54:17,680 if a property is eligible for a short-term rental license because some 4164 06:54:16,240 --> 06:54:23,040 individuals do know of the joining property restrictions. And we've had um 4165 06:54:20,558 --> 06:54:27,280 communications from listing agents where individuals have backed out of real 4166 06:54:25,600 --> 06:54:32,638 estate transactions because of the availability of a short-term rental 4167 06:54:29,680 --> 06:54:35,840 license. >> The standard 4168 06:54:33,440 --> 06:54:39,040 » sounds like the regulations are working >> at time 4169 06:54:36,320 --> 06:54:41,600 » if we don't want to have STR >> ghettos. 4170 06:54:40,798 --> 06:54:43,680 STR what? >> Ghettos. 4171 06:54:42,400 --> 06:54:48,718 » Oh. >> Yes. So it it is working for density for 4172 06:54:47,360 --> 06:54:55,040 sure. [clears throat] it is a functional tool for density. Um it 4173 06:54:52,320 --> 06:54:58,878 it may or may not be adjusted, right? Um and that's really 4174 06:54:57,840 --> 06:55:02,840 the direction that we're going to be seeking from the board today. 4175 06:55:05,040 --> 06:55:14,878 Standard license cap of the 130 respondents, 113 stated they were aware 4176 06:55:10,478 --> 06:55:19,920 of it. Uh 70 of those response responses indicated they thought that the cap 4177 06:55:16,320 --> 06:55:24,000 balances impacts and property rights. Um thanks 4178 06:55:20,478 --> 06:55:29,360 » 58 supported maintaining the cap, 48 supported increasing the cap and uh 22 4179 06:55:27,280 --> 06:55:33,440 supported decreasing the cap. Now this isn't a broad representation of the 4180 06:55:31,760 --> 06:55:38,240 community as a whole. Once again, I just want to state that the short-term rental 4181 06:55:36,478 --> 06:55:44,478 license hold soldiers were directly engaged by email. Um 4182 06:55:42,320 --> 06:55:48,638 though it does seem like these responses lean towards slightly increasing the cap 4183 06:55:47,200 --> 06:55:53,680 potentially. >> That's because it's from the short-term 4184 06:55:51,120 --> 06:55:56,558 rental owners. >> Potentially. That's why I wanted I 4185 06:55:54,878 --> 06:56:00,080 wanted to be very clear that we submitted this directly to the 4186 06:55:58,080 --> 06:56:03,840 short-term rental license holders. >> Okay. 4187 06:56:01,120 --> 06:56:09,760 » When I look at page four of what's in the packet, I see 17% want to see it 4188 06:56:07,840 --> 06:56:15,438 decrease. 44% want to see it be maintained. Um, that's pretty close to 4189 06:56:12,320 --> 06:56:18,400 the number of of local respondents. [clears throat] 4190 06:56:15,600 --> 06:56:23,840 » So, I think I mean not hearing something different from the public than we heard 4191 06:56:20,798 --> 06:56:27,638 when we were camping as far as >> how many they see. 4192 06:56:28,080 --> 06:56:34,400 » Uh, the primary residence license structure, primary residence rules 4193 06:56:32,160 --> 06:56:42,400 appeared to be frequently written in as comments. We did provide that um for 4194 06:56:37,520 --> 06:56:47,040 written in communications. Um most of the common concerns with the 4195 06:56:44,400 --> 06:56:51,680 primary residency licenses were um clarity and consistency in the residency 4196 06:56:49,120 --> 06:56:57,360 requirements. Um there was concerns about costs and um administrative burden 4197 06:56:54,958 --> 06:57:02,718 for primary residence license holders. uh concerns about false or inaccurate uh 4198 06:57:00,240 --> 06:57:09,718 primary residency claims and requests for more flexibility for uh legitimate 4199 06:57:05,280 --> 06:57:09,718 primary residence situations. 4200 06:57:12,320 --> 06:57:17,600 Some respondents want stronger verification and auditing to prevent 4201 06:57:15,360 --> 06:57:21,920 misuse of the primary residence license uh program. potential areas for 4202 06:57:20,400 --> 06:57:25,920 reviewers clarity in the annual residency verifications establishing a 4203 06:57:24,240 --> 06:57:29,680 clear complaint and audit process for suspected false claims. There are 4204 06:57:27,600 --> 06:57:33,120 internal processes that we've already developed to address some of these 4205 06:57:31,040 --> 06:57:38,718 claims. Um they're actually working very effectively and not that we're asking 4206 06:57:36,160 --> 06:57:44,478 for specific direction right now, but staff would be proposing to include some 4207 06:57:40,638 --> 06:57:48,760 of those currently prop um current audit processes into the ordinance. 4208 06:57:50,400 --> 06:57:57,120 fees, weight lists, and license access. Um cost and access concerns were the 4209 06:57:55,520 --> 06:58:02,718 most common written in uh some of the most common written in themes. Fee and 4210 06:57:59,760 --> 06:58:07,040 cost issues appear in 49% of the 49 of the responses. Uh while weight list 4211 06:58:04,718 --> 06:58:11,920 access and issues appeared in 18 of them. Um transfer or sale concerns 4212 06:58:09,280 --> 06:58:17,040 appeared in 17 responses. this last ordinance adoption, the transfer of 4213 06:58:14,478 --> 06:58:22,080 short-term rental licenses at home sales did change. So, that's why we saw some 4214 06:58:18,638 --> 06:58:27,520 of those responses. Um, those licenses were previously transferable upon home 4215 06:58:24,320 --> 06:58:32,160 sales to encourage some rollover and to um allow some of those licenses to 4216 06:58:29,200 --> 06:58:38,400 change hands. Uh, the ordinance in ordinance 19 from the uh zoning 4217 06:58:35,760 --> 06:58:41,920 regulations prohibited that transfer. there was a limited number of exceptions 4218 06:58:40,160 --> 06:58:47,240 that were provided that would have allowed that license to transfer with 4219 06:58:43,600 --> 06:58:47,240 the sale of a property. 4220 06:58:47,920 --> 06:58:54,878 Uh fire enforcement and operational standards um 4221 06:58:52,798 --> 06:59:00,080 fire and wildfire issues appeared in 42. The written responses and enforcements 4222 06:58:57,120 --> 06:59:06,320 appeared in 27. They were raised by licensed and non-licensed holders. um 4223 06:59:04,958 --> 06:59:10,798 individuals were seeking consistent action against unlicensed STRs, clear 4224 06:59:08,718 --> 06:59:16,958 complaint handling and responsible agent expectations for these um areas. 4225 06:59:13,840 --> 06:59:21,840 Consistency enforcement consistency enforcement of occupy occupancy, parking 4226 06:59:20,000 --> 06:59:29,000 noise and safety rules and greater transparency about complaints, fines and 4227 06:59:24,400 --> 06:59:29,000 enforcement outcomes. Um, 4228 06:59:34,080 --> 06:59:43,478 so of our complaints and our ask questions, we've really ranked them here 4229 06:59:39,920 --> 06:59:43,478 in item seven. 4230 06:59:44,638 --> 06:59:54,240 Uh, the insurance um language had the most concerns, most responses. Housing 4231 06:59:51,520 --> 07:00:00,160 and community impacts. uh fees and costs were the next um and then we go on down 4232 06:59:57,040 --> 07:00:05,520 to the transferable sale. Um a lot of these are going to be prioritized in the 4233 07:00:02,478 --> 07:00:09,240 proposed redline changes of the short-term rental ordinance. 4234 07:00:15,040 --> 07:00:20,638 Um non-licensed respondents emphasized housing supply and neighboring charact 4235 07:00:19,120 --> 07:00:25,680 neighborhood characteristics, traffic, wildfire risk, and unlicensed rentals 4236 07:00:23,120 --> 07:00:30,080 and primary residency enforcements. Um they felt that there was a number of uh 4237 07:00:28,400 --> 07:00:35,520 primary resident standard primary residence license types that may not 4238 07:00:32,320 --> 07:00:40,240 have been um actual primary residence. Uh there's oftentimes complaints where 4239 07:00:38,080 --> 07:00:44,798 individuals believe that a property might be a short-term rental or somebody 4240 07:00:43,200 --> 07:00:49,520 might be acting as a standard license holder who's not. And those are really 4241 07:00:47,920 --> 07:00:54,160 kind of like shared home types of situations. We go and we check listings 4242 07:00:52,160 --> 07:00:57,680 and uh we're not seeing any active listings for that property, but then 4243 07:00:55,920 --> 07:01:01,360 they'll report that they see different individuals rolling in and out of that 4244 07:00:59,200 --> 07:01:07,040 property every weekend, etc., etc. But we don't have regulations for home share 4245 07:01:03,520 --> 07:01:10,638 type situations. Um >> we don't even have the authority to 4246 07:01:08,718 --> 07:01:13,920 regulate home share situ like the real estate transfer tax, right? 10 people 4247 07:01:12,320 --> 07:01:17,760 own a house together. We don't have any authority to regulate that, do we? 4248 07:01:16,080 --> 07:01:22,400 » Uh not in the short-term rental ordinance. Otherwise, we would need to 4249 07:01:19,680 --> 07:01:26,798 refer that to the AO. Do we have any authority to regulate um 4250 07:01:25,760 --> 07:01:30,400 » occupancy? >> Not occupancy. Uh home share situations. 4251 07:01:29,040 --> 07:01:35,680 » That's basically what it amounts to. like short term or long term? 4252 07:01:32,080 --> 07:01:40,478 » Uh like uh um you know four individuals go in to 4253 07:01:38,400 --> 07:01:44,638 buy a house, everybody gets one week at a time at the house. What are those? 4254 07:01:43,040 --> 07:01:47,920 » Real real estate investment trusts, right? So you end up with these 20 4255 07:01:46,798 --> 07:01:49,520 people on home and they're kind of in and out and it looks like a short-term 4256 07:01:49,120 --> 07:01:50,878 rental. >> Yeah. No, we can't. 4257 07:01:50,320 --> 07:01:54,080 » Yeah, >> that would I mean we'd have to go back 4258 07:01:52,160 --> 07:01:57,120 to our land use code and try to go back to like and I don't even think this is 4259 07:01:55,360 --> 07:02:00,240 legal anymore, right? Like make them be members of the same family or something. 4260 07:01:58,558 --> 07:02:04,080 can't yeah we can't base it on fam familial status. 4261 07:02:02,558 --> 07:02:08,878 » So in conclusion the um short-term rental 4262 07:02:06,478 --> 07:02:13,440 survey didn't show any one unified position in any direction for any of the 4263 07:02:11,680 --> 07:02:18,000 proposed changes or any of the areas where we've served surveyed them. Um the 4264 07:02:16,638 --> 07:02:23,040 strongest opportunities for review is the insurance le uh language spacing and 4265 07:02:20,638 --> 07:02:27,440 trans uh parent of fees um fire standards and then primary residency 4266 07:02:25,280 --> 07:02:31,440 verifications. We do have those internal processes that we can integrate into the 4267 07:02:29,360 --> 07:02:37,120 short-term rental ordinance to improve uh that primary residency verification. 4268 07:02:34,000 --> 07:02:40,558 Um and then transparency on the weight list. Currently, we maintain the weight 4269 07:02:38,638 --> 07:02:47,520 list outside of the short-term rental regulations and we do not uh we don't 4270 07:02:44,558 --> 07:02:51,760 have that posted anywhere. Overall, 4271 07:02:49,840 --> 07:02:55,920 the feedback indicates uh support for the short-term rental regulation still 4272 07:02:53,840 --> 07:03:00,400 um even though there is substantial individ uh disagreement about individual 4273 07:02:58,400 --> 07:03:03,400 requirements and how we should balance that. 4274 07:03:08,478 --> 07:03:13,760 So, what staff would like to know from the board? Um we have a series of 4275 07:03:12,240 --> 07:03:18,878 questions here and where we're going to be seeking the direction from the board. 4276 07:03:16,160 --> 07:03:23,680 Um first one up is are the provisions of the existing ordinance um are there any 4277 07:03:22,478 --> 07:03:28,240 provisions of the existing ordinance that the board believes are unclear, 4278 07:03:25,120 --> 07:03:32,440 difficult to administer or produce produces unintended results? 4279 07:03:33,280 --> 07:03:41,760 » Well, I I have heard um the complaints about the uh difficulty in obtaining the 4280 07:03:40,080 --> 07:03:47,440 insurance um pursuant to our regulations. 4281 07:03:44,638 --> 07:03:50,478 So I think that's definitely something we need to simplify. 4282 07:03:49,440 --> 07:03:54,840 » Same. >> Agree. All right. 4283 07:03:57,520 --> 07:04:05,040 » Anything regarding the primary residency license types? We have multiple primary 4284 07:04:02,160 --> 07:04:09,760 residency license types. Specifically, um there was a request for residency 4285 07:04:06,798 --> 07:04:15,200 verification process and um to strengthen that. 4286 07:04:12,160 --> 07:04:20,240 Um, yeah, I I guess I'll start this one, colleagues. 4287 07:04:16,958 --> 07:04:24,080 I I think that our our proven approach, our verification approach is adequate to 4288 07:04:22,240 --> 07:04:31,040 go back to what we had before ordinance 19, and that was uh just a a primary 4289 07:04:28,638 --> 07:04:36,240 residence license. Right now, you either have to show that you're only renting a 4290 07:04:34,718 --> 07:04:41,200 portion of the house or you're limited to your number of days. And I think we 4291 07:04:38,320 --> 07:04:44,798 can basically scrap all of that and either have them prove on the front end 4292 07:04:43,600 --> 07:04:48,478 while they're applying via this verification process that they actually 4293 07:04:46,320 --> 07:04:52,240 live here or treat it on a complaint basis. I have a less strong opinion on 4294 07:04:50,160 --> 07:04:57,760 whether we would sort of prove it first or or enforce on complaints. But I do 4295 07:04:55,680 --> 07:05:01,760 think that we should eliminate counting days and eliminate making people show 4296 07:05:00,478 --> 07:05:05,840 that they're only renting a portion of the house and just if you're a resident, 4297 07:05:03,760 --> 07:05:09,040 you're not subject to the cap and you are subject to all the rest of the rules 4298 07:05:07,120 --> 07:05:16,080 and that's it. >> Um are you uh you had discussed earlier 4299 07:05:13,600 --> 07:05:21,520 uh part of the proof would be showing like grocery store receipts, gas station 4300 07:05:18,080 --> 07:05:24,718 receipts. um because it's way too easy just to say you live here and you don't 4301 07:05:24,000 --> 07:05:30,718 really >> Yeah, I think that's 4302 07:05:26,798 --> 07:05:36,000 I think that's something e I mean we've only seen a couple of these go through. 4303 07:05:33,520 --> 07:05:39,840 Um I'm sure we'll run into problems with 4304 07:05:38,080 --> 07:05:45,360 them at some point, but I think this is more fair than putting staff in a 4305 07:05:43,120 --> 07:05:50,400 position of trying to figure out if someone lives here or not, you know. Um 4306 07:05:48,478 --> 07:05:55,200 because on paper you can live anywhere >> mean to do it up front. 4307 07:05:52,320 --> 07:05:58,000 » I mean I don't have uh [clears throat] 4308 07:05:56,718 --> 07:06:00,958 that one I actually would like to talk to staff about. I haven't talked to them 4309 07:05:59,360 --> 07:06:05,120 about doing it upfront before. Usually we use this as a complaint base which I 4310 07:06:02,958 --> 07:06:10,320 think this isn't this is a little bit of an easier way for us to do that than the 4311 07:06:07,840 --> 07:06:15,120 accounting days which runs into equity issues runs into our it's very 4312 07:06:12,478 --> 07:06:17,760 burdensome for us to do that. Mhm. >> Um, 4313 07:06:16,320 --> 07:06:24,360 » and it's really easy to duck. >> It's really easy to duck. It's really 4314 07:06:19,520 --> 07:06:24,360 easy and and it so I 4315 07:06:26,240 --> 07:06:31,360 think I don't know. I I would I want to defer 4316 07:06:30,000 --> 07:06:35,360 the conversation on whether or not we require it up front because it could be 4317 07:06:33,440 --> 07:06:39,440 that it's a little bit of showing our hand 4318 07:06:37,520 --> 07:06:41,360 like, "Oh, make sure you get all this make sure you're doing all this stuff 4319 07:06:40,878 --> 07:06:45,920 before." >> Yeah. I'm trying to just a way to avoid 4320 07:06:43,760 --> 07:06:49,840 Obviously, the people are lying when they apply and they say they're living 4321 07:06:47,360 --> 07:06:54,320 in four different houses permanently and they're not 4322 07:06:51,120 --> 07:06:59,840 » and so the burden some of our staff is to have to go out and figure this out. 4323 07:06:57,840 --> 07:07:04,718 » Um, >> we could do it up front. I mean, I I I 4324 07:07:02,878 --> 07:07:08,958 think we would need to solidify this process and I would love to get Dave's 4325 07:07:06,400 --> 07:07:12,000 honest opinion here on um because it is a little bit of a rock 4326 07:07:10,320 --> 07:07:18,160 and a hard place for staff regardless, right? like we want the we want to make 4327 07:07:15,440 --> 07:07:23,120 we want to use this the STR business model to make living up here affordable 4328 07:07:19,840 --> 07:07:30,558 for people who don't make $180,000 a year right um having said that it is a 4329 07:07:28,320 --> 07:07:35,200 very huge massive loophole to walk through because you can live anywhere 4330 07:07:33,200 --> 07:07:41,520 right on paper right I mean people live in the Cayman's 4331 07:07:37,040 --> 07:07:44,878 you know um and so I think this is the best solution I've 4332 07:07:43,360 --> 07:07:48,000 seen. Um 4333 07:07:45,840 --> 07:07:50,638 » would filing your taxes be part of their requirement. Um 4334 07:07:49,360 --> 07:07:56,240 » we asked for their >> We do currently ask for for tax. Um I I 4335 07:07:54,240 --> 07:07:59,440 don't think there's going to be any one I I didn't I don't want to go too much 4336 07:07:58,160 --> 07:08:03,440 into specifics here, but I don't think there's going to be any one particular 4337 07:08:01,680 --> 07:08:08,000 um smoking gun that's going to solve the primary residency requirements. We can 4338 07:08:05,520 --> 07:08:13,200 require the receipts up front um demonstrating that they're in the area 4339 07:08:09,840 --> 07:08:16,240 and we can do another verification later and if at some point down the road 4340 07:08:14,798 --> 07:08:20,478 they're still not purchasing things in the area um then we would have an 4341 07:08:18,400 --> 07:08:23,600 indication that they relocated to Texas or they went off somewhere else. 4342 07:08:22,240 --> 07:08:27,280 » The other thing is somebody could be very local and they could claim primary 4343 07:08:25,440 --> 07:08:30,558 residency in this house over here be living full-time in another residence 4344 07:08:29,120 --> 07:08:33,200 and then still hold another standard license type I mean if they really 4345 07:08:32,000 --> 07:08:37,200 wanted to leverage it they could potentially go that far about it and 4346 07:08:35,280 --> 07:08:41,760 then the residency verification wouldn't quite be perfect. It's going to be very 4347 07:08:39,200 --> 07:08:46,718 difficult to completely close down any opportunity to take advantage of the 4348 07:08:44,320 --> 07:08:50,400 primary residence license, but we can definitely choke it down a lot. 4349 07:08:48,478 --> 07:08:56,798 » I mean, colleagues, if we can reduce the number of people that can successfully 4350 07:08:53,680 --> 07:09:01,280 exploit that loophole from 330 million to 9,000, I think we've 4351 07:08:59,040 --> 07:09:04,320 » Yeah, I think it's a I think it's a type one or a type two error. So, the type 4352 07:09:02,958 --> 07:09:08,160 two error is the one that you want to prevent at all cost, right? I don't know 4353 07:09:07,200 --> 07:09:14,400 what you mean by >> so like it's like the jury trial, right? 4354 07:09:10,080 --> 07:09:17,600 You know, um you have to have a complete 100% of people have to agree this 4355 07:09:15,840 --> 07:09:22,160 person's guilty, which means that you're you're you're basically taking a 4356 07:09:19,280 --> 07:09:25,040 position that someone putting an innocent person in jail is 4357 07:09:23,680 --> 07:09:28,320 worse than letting a guilty person go free, right? You're setting up the 4358 07:09:26,558 --> 07:09:33,600 position so that what the error that can happen is the one that you're okay, you 4359 07:09:31,360 --> 07:09:44,718 will live with to prevent the other one, right? And so um so in this case I think 4360 07:09:41,680 --> 07:09:49,840 I think the I I think the the receipt and consumption information that we're 4361 07:09:46,558 --> 07:09:53,120 going to request will catch the majority of the problem which is people who live 4362 07:09:51,600 --> 07:09:56,000 nowhere near here. They live in New York. Mhm. 4363 07:09:54,160 --> 07:10:01,120 » If someone figures out how to do it who lives in the county 4364 07:09:58,240 --> 07:10:04,320 or like maybe lives on the Jeff Co side of Evergreen, that's a much smaller 4365 07:10:02,798 --> 07:10:08,240 population and we might just have to live with that, right? That risk because 4366 07:10:06,400 --> 07:10:13,520 there's there's no way to solve it 100%. And I think that was largely George's 4367 07:10:10,400 --> 07:10:18,400 point. I think this this way solves the the other person the other thing is 4368 07:10:15,600 --> 07:10:24,718 that person is close regardless, right? >> It's not a true absentee person, right? 4369 07:10:21,760 --> 07:10:31,520 Um, so I think that's the error that we could live with. Um, and I'm a little 4370 07:10:28,240 --> 07:10:37,440 bit more comfortable with this than relying on the days restriction. 4371 07:10:34,558 --> 07:10:42,798 » It's the counting days. There's a commissioner in Uray County that really 4372 07:10:40,160 --> 07:10:46,798 really deeply rabbit hole. You can use 4373 07:10:44,798 --> 07:10:50,400 different listing platforms and you can have different profiles on the same 4374 07:10:48,320 --> 07:10:53,840 listing platforms and basically completely sidestep those rules and it 4375 07:10:52,240 --> 07:10:55,600 takes a ton of effort to catch someone doing that. 4376 07:10:54,478 --> 07:10:57,600 » Mhm. >> Yeah. And it 4377 07:10:56,400 --> 07:10:59,520 » it's a bigger loophole than what we have. 4378 07:10:57,840 --> 07:11:03,360 » It's also like you get into the issue of line drawing with the board. How many 4379 07:11:01,680 --> 07:11:08,080 days are the right or the fair amount of days? Right. It's this like arbitrary 4380 07:11:06,240 --> 07:11:10,718 line that moves. Some people think >> number of days 4381 07:11:08,878 --> 07:11:14,878 » that you're allowed to rent before Exactary. Exactly. So then it's like is 4382 07:11:13,120 --> 07:11:19,840 it half the time? Is it twothirds of the time? Is it you know what I mean? And 4383 07:11:16,160 --> 07:11:24,638 that feels very um you know it's just a hard thing to kind 4384 07:11:22,000 --> 07:11:28,718 of factually base on anything other than kind of a perception of what should be 4385 07:11:26,558 --> 07:11:33,360 happening. Whereas this is look the residency thing is about you being here 4386 07:11:31,360 --> 07:11:38,718 right and everything else is kind of secondary to that. Ju just to clarify, 4387 07:11:35,920 --> 07:11:42,000 it's it's not about the the number of days that a person has 4388 07:11:40,400 --> 07:11:45,040 to live in a home for it to be their primary residence is already established 4389 07:11:43,440 --> 07:11:48,478 in statute. This is about the number of days we would allow them to rent or or 4390 07:11:47,360 --> 07:11:51,840 rent. >> And that's [clears throat] where there's 4391 07:11:49,600 --> 07:11:55,680 just it's it's really difficult to arrive at a number that is based in 4392 07:11:53,920 --> 07:12:00,798 logic. >> Um 365 is clearly, you know, that's the 4393 07:11:58,558 --> 07:12:03,920 only number that like one and 365 you can make strong arguments for, but 4394 07:12:01,840 --> 07:12:08,558 everything else in between. Yeah. 4395 07:12:05,520 --> 07:12:11,280 » And there are only 58 primary residence license types out there. How many? 4396 07:12:10,558 --> 07:12:16,080 » 58 >> out of how many? 4397 07:12:12,160 --> 07:12:18,798 » Out of uh 100 plus an additional 163 standard license types. 4398 07:12:17,280 --> 07:12:23,600 » So we're talking 25%. >> Yeah. 20 25ish% 4399 07:12:21,040 --> 07:12:29,120 are primary residence license types. Uh I would say that uh probably 95% of 4400 07:12:27,040 --> 07:12:31,920 those individuals are always doing the correct thing and they're probably in 4401 07:12:30,240 --> 07:12:36,638 compliance with our regulations. there there might be 5% out there that we 4402 07:12:34,400 --> 07:12:41,600 should be worried about of those 58. So 3 to fiveish 4403 07:12:38,798 --> 07:12:44,798 in that range. Um and that's kind of the point about the primary residency is 4404 07:12:43,360 --> 07:12:48,080 generally if someone is a primary resident of an STR they're generally 4405 07:12:46,558 --> 07:12:53,200 taking better care of it and it's not an investment vehicle. It's their home, 4406 07:12:50,080 --> 07:12:55,360 » right? Like they're around, you know, we >> they care what their neighbors think. 4407 07:12:54,240 --> 07:12:57,440 » They care what their neighbors think. Neighbors can find them. 4408 07:12:56,400 --> 07:12:59,280 » They don't want their house to burn down. 4409 07:12:57,760 --> 07:13:02,798 » There's peer pressure. There's things that happen in that situation that 4410 07:13:01,200 --> 07:13:08,080 that's different than someone who just lives in South Carolina, right? 4411 07:13:06,718 --> 07:13:14,080 » So, are we good on that one? On the primary residence one, do we agree that 4412 07:13:09,680 --> 07:13:18,240 we're going to we're asking to shift to sort of one I think the right way to say 4413 07:13:15,760 --> 07:13:21,840 it is a single resident license type. >> Okay. 4414 07:13:19,040 --> 07:13:24,400 » It's not based on days or or or partitioning the home. It's just based 4415 07:13:23,440 --> 07:13:28,958 on residency. >> Okay. 4416 07:13:25,760 --> 07:13:34,718 We will work on red lines and verbiage to reduce to a single primary residence 4417 07:13:31,200 --> 07:13:39,520 license type then. Um >> well I did are you are both I if you 4418 07:13:38,320 --> 07:13:42,878 nodded I missed that. I'm sorry. >> Yeah I'm good with that. I just was in 4419 07:13:41,200 --> 07:13:50,240 my mind thinking about this one complaint that I constantly get up at 4420 07:13:45,600 --> 07:13:52,478 St. Mary's that somebody has four per licenses. 4421 07:13:51,440 --> 07:13:57,600 » Oh >> no owner. No, we we audit for that. I 4422 07:13:55,760 --> 07:14:01,360 would that would be unlikely. >> Yeah, we're only issuing one per 4423 07:13:59,760 --> 07:14:04,798 individual. If they did, it would have to be held in different names. And we 4424 07:14:03,040 --> 07:14:11,360 would like to know about that >> when So, can someone form an LLC, buy a 4425 07:14:07,920 --> 07:14:14,638 house without LLC? You still ultimately require the owner of that LLC to be the 4426 07:14:13,520 --> 07:14:17,040 applicant. Is that correct? You don't let LLC's apply, 4427 07:14:16,000 --> 07:14:19,840 » right? Correct. Yeah, >> that exact reason through land owners 4428 07:14:18,798 --> 07:14:23,760 authorization. Yeah. >> Yeah. Okay. 4429 07:14:22,320 --> 07:14:27,920 because otherwise you're looking at S corps, BC corps, LLC's, all sorts of tax 4430 07:14:26,478 --> 07:14:31,520 vehicles that can hide people's identity. We need a we need a person. 4431 07:14:30,320 --> 07:14:34,558 » Now, I guess you could run into a situation where there's four people in a 4432 07:14:33,120 --> 07:14:38,240 household and four different homes and four different names, but that's going 4433 07:14:35,680 --> 07:14:41,600 to be really hard to police, >> you know, but 4434 07:14:39,840 --> 07:14:43,920 » like what if it's your wife, one is your spouse? 4435 07:14:42,080 --> 07:14:46,478 » I'm always and Jenny have different last names. You'd never know. 4436 07:14:45,040 --> 07:14:50,240 » Yeah. If you could like give me the evidence. Well, I don't want to r out my 4437 07:14:48,798 --> 07:14:56,400 neighbors. And I'm like, >> yeah. Well, my hands are tied then. 4438 07:14:52,478 --> 07:15:02,000 » Yeah. Yeah. Um, are there any subjects or areas of the ordinance that the ord 4439 07:14:59,520 --> 07:15:06,160 is completely satisfied with and they know they absolutely do not want to 4440 07:15:03,920 --> 07:15:08,958 change? >> I I took a different approach when I was 4441 07:15:07,840 --> 07:15:10,558 preparing, which is what are the things I do want to change? 4442 07:15:09,840 --> 07:15:14,400 » Okay. Yeah. >> But, um, I don't have to be the first 4443 07:15:13,040 --> 07:15:17,200 one to answer your question. >> The transfer of sale, when you talked 4444 07:15:16,320 --> 07:15:22,240 about that, were those people grandfathered in? 4445 07:15:19,760 --> 07:15:26,558 No, there's a few or >> no, nobody's grandfathered in on the 4446 07:15:23,920 --> 07:15:32,160 transfer of sale. Uh, so license types go away. The those permits, those 4447 07:15:29,600 --> 07:15:34,958 special use permits are all expired. So, nobody's operating underneath the old 4448 07:15:33,680 --> 07:15:41,120 zoning regulations. That's >> so what what about if you know parents, 4449 07:15:39,440 --> 07:15:44,320 you know, sell their house to their son or something? 4450 07:15:42,160 --> 07:15:47,840 » That could potentially be in the list of exemptions. I don't have them memorized, 4451 07:15:45,760 --> 07:15:49,920 but there's there's a list of about seven or eight different exemptions. 4452 07:15:49,600 --> 07:15:54,558 Okay. >> Um, one of those is a transfer of from 4453 07:15:52,240 --> 07:15:59,920 an individual's name to a trust or an LLC or to potentially minor children. 4454 07:15:58,160 --> 07:16:01,680 Um, but I don't have it memorized. That's 4455 07:16:00,240 --> 07:16:04,798 » we can reference the ordinance if we did want to look at it. We do have it 4456 07:16:02,798 --> 07:16:08,638 available in the U, >> but no, I I absolutely agree that people 4457 07:16:06,878 --> 07:16:13,040 off the wait list should have priority over somebody who's selling their house 4458 07:16:10,798 --> 07:16:16,958 to somebody else. Yeah, it really complicates things because they're now 4459 07:16:14,798 --> 07:16:21,320 saying their house isn't worth as much because they can't sell it as 4460 07:16:21,440 --> 07:16:29,040 » and that's kind of been the economic case about why unregulated STR markets 4461 07:16:26,478 --> 07:16:31,840 drive house prices crazy because you're bringing a business plan into something 4462 07:16:30,558 --> 07:16:36,718 that traditionally people had to pay with with their wages, 4463 07:16:33,280 --> 07:16:40,798 » right? Now it's like, oh, I can get my entire vacation home paid for by someone 4464 07:16:38,718 --> 07:16:45,680 else or I can potentially make money or I can even get 80% of the cost deferred 4465 07:16:42,878 --> 07:16:51,360 and then owning a second home cost me 20% of what it would 10 years ago. And 4466 07:16:47,840 --> 07:16:57,760 so that what they're complaining about is kind of the case and point of why 4467 07:16:55,040 --> 07:17:01,520 » you know really hyperactive STR markets can drive houses up so much that workers 4468 07:17:00,240 --> 07:17:04,478 can no longer afford them. >> Right. Well, and technically, if 4469 07:17:02,718 --> 07:17:08,798 somebody is really still wanting to do that, they're going to have to purchase 4470 07:17:06,878 --> 07:17:12,080 the home and possibly sit on it for a while before 4471 07:17:10,400 --> 07:17:14,638 » they could get that license. >> That's the way it's set up now. Yes. 4472 07:17:13,680 --> 07:17:18,558 » Yeah. >> No, that makes sense. 4473 07:17:15,840 --> 07:17:22,240 » So, that's one that I'm not, you know, I don't want to 4474 07:17:21,200 --> 07:17:26,798 change that, I guess. >> Okay. So, the the no transfer upon sale, 4475 07:17:24,718 --> 07:17:30,958 we will make sure that we do not make any changes. I think the other reason 4476 07:17:29,200 --> 07:17:34,638 the transfer on sale is a valuable thing to keep the way it is is because if you 4477 07:17:32,798 --> 07:17:39,440 do allow transfers on sale, some of these adjacency problems become really 4478 07:17:36,798 --> 07:17:43,440 difficult because now that one STR permanently locks out 4479 07:17:42,160 --> 07:17:47,520 forever >> essentially anything around it and 4480 07:17:44,958 --> 07:17:52,000 that's like a very diff whereas with the sale and non-transferable 4481 07:17:50,320 --> 07:17:56,000 we have a little bit more fluidity to how we can manage and things can change 4482 07:17:53,840 --> 07:17:59,120 over time because if if you made them transferable those people on the weight 4483 07:17:57,440 --> 07:18:05,520 this might be there forever. >> Right. And there would be no, you know, 4484 07:18:02,638 --> 07:18:09,760 » I I agree. I just as a heads up, I know I got an email from a person and that he 4485 07:18:07,440 --> 07:18:14,320 told me he emailed both of you as well. Um I've been telling everybody that 4486 07:18:12,000 --> 07:18:18,558 reaches out to me that I will I will reserve judgment until they get to make 4487 07:18:16,160 --> 07:18:22,400 their argument to me. Right. Um and there is a short-term rental operator 4488 07:18:20,160 --> 07:18:25,840 that says he has a great argument for why we need to allow transfer. 4489 07:18:23,520 --> 07:18:28,718 » Well, and there are exemptions. I don't I don't think I'm I'm I'm not likely to 4490 07:18:27,440 --> 07:18:32,320 be persuaded, but I just want you to know. Otherwise, as of right now, I 4491 07:18:30,478 --> 07:18:36,000 agree. Transferability, I'm happy with the policy. Another one I would add to 4492 07:18:34,000 --> 07:18:39,440 that list is I don't think I'm interested in changing the cap and 4493 07:18:37,920 --> 07:18:42,478 unless we can come up with >> I mean, I see there are nine people on 4494 07:18:40,798 --> 07:18:46,718 the wait list >> if there's 4495 07:18:44,638 --> 07:18:50,160 » Well, we'll have the new the new housing some of the new housing units come 4496 07:18:48,000 --> 07:18:53,840 online. We'll move the cap unless is the cap unincorporated only? 4497 07:18:51,680 --> 07:18:59,680 » The cap is unincorporated areas the county only. So, we're only counting our 4498 07:18:55,360 --> 07:19:06,160 our house our housing stock. It's 4.5%. Uh we currently have three 3,620 4499 07:19:03,440 --> 07:19:10,160 units identified. Um we'll make that adjustment next month in October from 4500 07:19:08,478 --> 07:19:15,120 all the houses that received their certificates of occupancy and that'll be 4501 07:19:12,160 --> 07:19:19,680 counted. Um that will go up a unit or two. We're currently at 163 standard 4502 07:19:17,840 --> 07:19:23,920 license types. [laughter] >> So, here's my my sense. There's there's 4503 07:19:22,400 --> 07:19:28,958 a case I could come up with where I could talk myself into a change to the 4504 07:19:26,080 --> 07:19:33,120 cap, which is if we look at that, we had a a couple of years after we implemented 4505 07:19:30,798 --> 07:19:38,798 Ordinance 19 where a number of people weren't able to get licenses for one 4506 07:19:34,638 --> 07:19:43,680 reason or another that maybe there's no policy reason that they 4507 07:19:40,400 --> 07:19:46,958 shouldn't have a license, right? Um, can we can we just ask that you kind of 4508 07:19:45,520 --> 07:19:50,798 take a look at who's on the wait list and give us a sense of it doesn't matter 4509 07:19:49,280 --> 07:19:54,160 who they are, but just give us a sense of are there people who are on the 4510 07:19:52,080 --> 07:19:57,680 waiting list that if not for something like not getting an insurance 4511 07:19:55,680 --> 07:20:01,680 requirement would have ultimately been approved. Like like is is this an 4512 07:20:00,400 --> 07:20:05,840 opportunity for us to make good with people who got caught up in in this 4513 07:20:04,240 --> 07:20:11,120 transition to ordinance 19 and potentially expand the cap by like 10 4514 07:20:08,718 --> 07:20:17,040 homes or something or five homes? No, because um 4515 07:20:13,760 --> 07:20:21,920 with all this new housing going in, it's going to up the number anyway that's 4516 07:20:20,000 --> 07:20:26,638 allowed to do it. And I think that can be a natural progression. We don't need 4517 07:20:24,160 --> 07:20:32,478 to up it right now because at least my community is very much against it. I do 4518 07:20:29,680 --> 07:20:37,760 have a question. um up Mel Crate there was conversation of the HOA 4519 07:20:35,520 --> 07:20:40,000 not allowing that did that did that that happen or is that conversation still 4520 07:20:39,360 --> 07:20:45,200 happening? >> That did not happen. Um it was a 4521 07:20:42,878 --> 07:20:50,558 conversation for a little bit in our short-term rental regulations. Um, if an 4522 07:20:48,320 --> 07:20:56,160 individual community decided to that they were going to not allow short-term 4523 07:20:52,638 --> 07:20:59,840 rentals in their community, that board or that president of that HOA would need 4524 07:20:58,080 --> 07:21:04,240 to communicate that to staff and we would honor that, meaning that we 4525 07:21:01,840 --> 07:21:08,240 wouldn't issue those licenses. Now, if it came to taking away licenses that 4526 07:21:06,558 --> 07:21:11,040 already existed, we were going to stay out of that decision-making process 4527 07:21:09,840 --> 07:21:14,160 because there was a potential for a different cap for that neighborhood and 4528 07:21:13,040 --> 07:21:18,558 say, "Hey, we don't like four and a half%, but we would like to allow two 4529 07:21:16,558 --> 07:21:22,320 STR licenses or something like this." Then we would leave it up to the HOA to 4530 07:21:20,558 --> 07:21:27,360 determine whose licenses were going to be revoked and whose um whose were going 4531 07:21:25,360 --> 07:21:30,400 to be maintained or how and when they were going to not be renewed or 4532 07:21:29,040 --> 07:21:33,520 something like that. So the the process of 4533 07:21:30,718 --> 07:21:39,120 » they can make their own ordinances and they could allow 4534 07:21:35,760 --> 07:21:43,440 I mean transfers of the new to new >> no our ordinance would still but they 4535 07:21:41,040 --> 07:21:47,920 could have their local bylaws their HOA or their community could have their own 4536 07:21:44,878 --> 07:21:50,320 local bylaws that further restricted the short-term rentals in there. 4537 07:21:49,120 --> 07:21:54,478 » It would only be more strict. >> It would only Yeah. They can't they 4538 07:21:52,400 --> 07:21:58,160 can't say hey we're going to allow our entire neighborhood to be short-term 4539 07:21:56,240 --> 07:22:00,798 rentals. So, they could potentially say, "We're not going to allow any at all," 4540 07:21:59,360 --> 07:22:06,638 or, "We're going to allow one house to be a short-term rental or something like 4541 07:22:03,120 --> 07:22:08,478 that." Um, and then we would honor their changes. 4542 07:22:07,360 --> 07:22:14,000 » Okay. >> I think, um, one thing on the on the 4543 07:22:12,478 --> 07:22:20,400 potential cap issue, that's an opportunity though is new builds. 4544 07:22:17,120 --> 07:22:24,558 Somebody builds a house kind of be which is kind of a cap 4545 07:22:22,958 --> 07:22:28,240 exemption, which isn't currently in the ordinance, right, David? 4546 07:22:26,400 --> 07:22:33,360 There's not currently a cap exemption. So, I can explain a little bit. Um, 4547 07:22:31,440 --> 07:22:37,760 previously when we were doing ordinance 19, there was a proposal when we're 4548 07:22:36,000 --> 07:22:41,280 migrating from the zoning regs to the short-term rental ordinance that we 4549 07:22:39,040 --> 07:22:45,760 would do a cap exemption for anybody that would be willing to build a new 4550 07:22:43,680 --> 07:22:49,920 single family type house or a new dwelling unit um in the county and they 4551 07:22:48,558 --> 07:22:54,478 would be exempt from limits and adjoining property restrictions. So, we 4552 07:22:51,600 --> 07:22:59,680 would encourage housing stock. The the caveat to that would be that upon sale 4553 07:22:57,600 --> 07:23:04,240 of that residence, it would be subject to STR limits. So, whoever initially 4554 07:23:03,040 --> 07:23:08,160 built it, if somebody was willing to build a house solely for the purpose of 4555 07:23:06,320 --> 07:23:12,798 getting a short-term rental license because our cap was full, the uh 4556 07:23:10,878 --> 07:23:16,798 proposal was to have that exemption for that new construction. And then upon the 4557 07:23:15,280 --> 07:23:21,760 sale of that home or the transfer to that sale, it would that home, it would 4558 07:23:18,718 --> 07:23:26,718 then be subject to short-term rental cap. So, somebody could come into Clear 4559 07:23:23,840 --> 07:23:30,240 Creek County and build a house dedicated to short-term rental even though it's 4560 07:23:29,040 --> 07:23:33,360 outside the cap. >> Not currently. It was a proposal. Never. 4561 07:23:32,638 --> 07:23:37,680 » Yeah. >> Yeah. No, I agree with that. 4562 07:23:35,440 --> 07:23:41,920 » But that was that was just a discussion um at one point in time was for an 4563 07:23:40,080 --> 07:23:46,558 exemption to the cap for that new construction. And that's something we 4564 07:23:44,878 --> 07:23:48,160 could explore again or not explore again. 4565 07:23:46,878 --> 07:23:52,558 » Yeah, we were looking for ways to incentivize people to build homes here. 4566 07:23:50,000 --> 07:23:56,638 any any home because part of the affordability problem here is both the P 4567 07:23:55,120 --> 07:24:01,120 but the Q. We don't have enough quantity. So any way we any any way that 4568 07:23:59,360 --> 07:24:05,360 we can just have someone build it because they can't transfer. 4569 07:24:02,320 --> 07:24:07,760 » I thought we had all of these vacant new developments now. 4570 07:24:07,440 --> 07:24:11,360 » No, >> no. We have a lot of unbuilt parcels. If 4571 07:24:09,840 --> 07:24:16,320 you're particularly in >> I heard that the field ball field 4572 07:24:14,000 --> 07:24:22,400 apartments aren't being filled up >> in areas where people have utilities. It 4573 07:24:19,040 --> 07:24:27,120 is true like we don't have enough we we we do see um we're running out of square 4574 07:24:25,360 --> 07:24:31,200 footage in places that are served by like water and sewer but in the 4575 07:24:29,520 --> 07:24:35,520 unincorporated particularly places like St. Mary's only a third of those lots 4576 07:24:33,440 --> 07:24:38,080 are built and they're just sitting up there. 4577 07:24:35,920 --> 07:24:40,878 » Oh. Oh, I see. I I I see what you're saying. It's like lots 4578 07:24:40,320 --> 07:24:44,320 » and >> built [clears throat] but people who 4579 07:24:42,320 --> 07:24:48,160 would buy those lots at St. Mary's wouldn't necessarily buy an apartment in 4580 07:24:48,000 --> 07:24:52,558 the >> B. We're trying to encourage there's a 4581 07:24:50,798 --> 07:24:56,240 couple of issues particularly in well St. Mary's not to make it the test case 4582 07:24:54,240 --> 07:25:00,558 here but it is it is a unique case in the county because it has its own 4583 07:24:57,840 --> 07:25:05,520 sanitation district that was designed for a community that was built out and 4584 07:25:02,878 --> 07:25:07,680 as a result but because it's not they don't have enough revenue to operate 4585 07:25:06,878 --> 07:25:12,240 that thing. So >> any way that we can incentivize them to 4586 07:25:09,520 --> 07:25:14,878 anyone to just build homes up there, >> huh, 4587 07:25:12,558 --> 07:25:19,920 » I think is a good idea. And if an STR is a mechanism to help finance that growth 4588 07:25:17,680 --> 07:25:24,400 in Q because it's not a transferable license, they get tired and they sell 4589 07:25:22,478 --> 07:25:27,360 it. Now it's back under the cap and this is a way for us to grow our housing 4590 07:25:26,000 --> 07:25:32,080 stock and because right now it's just they're just not getting built and they 4591 07:25:28,798 --> 07:25:36,798 haven't been built for 40 years. something's not working up there and 4592 07:25:34,320 --> 07:25:41,840 this is a way to hopefully try to correct that. Um whereas places like 4593 07:25:39,280 --> 07:25:47,160 Evergreen, most lots already built, >> right? And it's full. This is this is 4594 07:25:43,680 --> 07:25:47,160 very much a 4595 07:25:47,200 --> 07:25:52,320 this is like these are pocketed issues where we have tons of vacant parcels 4596 07:25:50,798 --> 07:25:57,600 where we're not really seeing a lot of investment in homes and because we have 4597 07:25:54,878 --> 07:26:00,878 so few places where we can build homes. >> If this is a way for us to build homes 4598 07:25:59,280 --> 07:26:02,798 then I think it's something the board should consider. 4599 07:26:01,760 --> 07:26:09,600 » Interesting. Yeah. >> And is it legal one more question is it 4600 07:26:05,600 --> 07:26:12,320 legal to give an area an exemption but not the whole 4601 07:26:10,798 --> 07:26:15,440 » Not yet. Now, that's something we can come to down the road when that course 4602 07:26:13,760 --> 07:26:20,718 case is settled at a summit. But for now, we can say knowing where we where 4603 07:26:17,920 --> 07:26:25,440 this development will likely end up is places that have a lot of vacant parcels 4604 07:26:23,360 --> 07:26:30,320 that don't have houses on them. >> Um, we know kind of where the effect of 4605 07:26:28,320 --> 07:26:34,240 this policy will likely end up and it's like Saddleback on Floyd Hill, which has 4606 07:26:32,240 --> 07:26:39,840 a lot of empty parcels that have not been built for 30 years and St. 4607 07:26:37,680 --> 07:26:43,040 in a very similar situation with a metro district that was created that didn't 4608 07:26:41,440 --> 07:26:46,240 get enough I don't know if it's a metro whatever whatever the district is it 4609 07:26:45,360 --> 07:26:48,638 they didn't get enough housing construction to actually have the 4610 07:26:47,360 --> 07:26:51,600 revenue to take care of their roads up there 4611 07:26:49,120 --> 07:26:56,798 » right this would be a way to fix flip that economics right to say hey look if 4612 07:26:54,320 --> 07:27:01,280 an STR helps you pay for an investment that helps bring the cost down for all 4613 07:26:59,520 --> 07:27:04,320 the other homes on that sanitation district or on that road or whatever 4614 07:27:02,958 --> 07:27:09,120 else they're paying for because it's spreading the you know the cost out 4615 07:27:06,080 --> 07:27:12,958 among more payers than currently exists. >> Okay. 4616 07:27:09,760 --> 07:27:16,718 » Um the other other thing that I've been thinking about this one for a while. 4617 07:27:15,280 --> 07:27:21,440 » We have a cap because we're trying to prevent our existing housing stock from 4618 07:27:18,798 --> 07:27:24,718 being bought up and and not have residents in it. 4619 07:27:23,120 --> 07:27:28,558 » Does that logic apply to a vacant parcel? I'm just not sure it does. 4620 07:27:26,478 --> 07:27:31,680 » I don't think so. They've been parcels they've been vacant for so long. We 4621 07:27:30,478 --> 07:27:37,360 haven't had When's the last time we've had an subdivision? I mean, 20 years 4622 07:27:34,240 --> 07:27:40,478 ago, I think was the last big one, and that one still hasn't built its parcels 4623 07:27:39,520 --> 07:27:44,080 out. So, there's something like fundamentally flawed with the economics 4624 07:27:42,080 --> 07:27:48,000 of what's going on here, and this could be a way to like 4625 07:27:46,320 --> 07:27:51,200 just get more quantity. >> No, 4626 07:27:48,718 --> 07:27:54,240 » my guess is you you wouldn't see I I I I don't think you'd see a ton of new 4627 07:27:52,638 --> 07:27:56,558 housing construction. I I kind of just view it as a fairness issue. Mhm. 4628 07:27:56,270 --> 07:28:00,000 [clears throat] >> The cap has a really really solid logic 4629 07:27:58,958 --> 07:28:05,040 behind it when you're talking about existing homes and and less solid logic 4630 07:28:03,120 --> 07:28:09,120 when you're talking about vacant lots from my perspective. 4631 07:28:06,398 --> 07:28:12,718 » H I hadn't thought of it that way >> because it's not a true opportunity cost 4632 07:28:10,878 --> 07:28:15,360 to another buyer, right? If someone had the money to go buy a lot and build a 4633 07:28:14,320 --> 07:28:19,600 house, >> they would be doing it anyway, right? 4634 07:28:18,160 --> 07:28:22,878 Then the part of the reason why those parcels are vacant is because there's 4635 07:28:21,360 --> 07:28:26,160 something misaligned 4636 07:28:24,478 --> 07:28:30,398 with the market that's just having them sit for so long like that. And so we're 4637 07:28:28,000 --> 07:28:34,878 not really costing another traditional home buyer an opportunity by allowing 4638 07:28:32,798 --> 07:28:40,718 that to be an STR. >> What's not getting built anyway? So, is 4639 07:28:37,200 --> 07:28:45,120 it safe is it safe to say that we're open to that language 4640 07:28:43,840 --> 07:28:51,680 » based on this conversation >> if we can limit it uh geographically, 4641 07:28:49,680 --> 07:28:54,878 but but maybe I'm thinking about my neighborhood where 4642 07:28:52,958 --> 07:28:59,520 » that might just naturally happen. I think 4643 07:28:57,360 --> 07:29:03,360 » but I I don't want some builder coming into my neighborhood and 4644 07:29:01,840 --> 07:29:08,240 » yeah, >> I mean there there are plenty of houses 4645 07:29:05,680 --> 07:29:13,040 going up like on witter that nobody really thought could be built before and 4646 07:29:10,000 --> 07:29:16,240 now they can do catalyvered houses. Um >> well that's what I'm wondering too is 4647 07:29:14,398 --> 07:29:21,440 like a second home on a property. How does that work currently? You mean like 4648 07:29:18,320 --> 07:29:25,520 an owned acre and you decided to help the housing market, you'd build another 4649 07:29:23,200 --> 07:29:29,280 home on your property >> because you permanently live there on 4650 07:29:27,360 --> 07:29:31,120 that property, but not in that home. If it was a separate home, 4651 07:29:30,478 --> 07:29:34,000 » an ADU, >> if it's part Yeah. If it's an ADU and 4652 07:29:32,638 --> 07:29:37,680 it's part of that parcel, they can still get their primary residence license type 4653 07:29:36,558 --> 07:29:41,120 that way. >> Um, that's an extension of that home. 4654 07:29:39,600 --> 07:29:44,638 It's accessory to that home. Even though they're two separate buildings, they're 4655 07:29:42,320 --> 07:29:49,760 on the same parcel. That's the same house essentially is how it's viewed. 4656 07:29:46,798 --> 07:29:53,680 until the parcels separated. >> On if they get subdivided, then it's no 4657 07:29:51,920 --> 07:29:56,638 longer an ADU, but if it's on the same parcel, 4658 07:29:54,958 --> 07:30:00,798 » there's some requirements in the development that require the ADU to be 4659 07:29:58,798 --> 07:30:04,080 on the same infrastructure as the main house. So, they would share 4660 07:30:02,958 --> 07:30:08,080 » Oh my gosh. >> Same water, same gas. 4661 07:30:06,398 --> 07:30:10,718 » So, they'll build an ADU and then subdivide. 4662 07:30:09,360 --> 07:30:13,680 » You could, but it would come with additional costs. It just wouldn't be 4663 07:30:12,000 --> 07:30:19,680 like a separate fingers and we're going to put a line in here. built a separate 4664 07:30:15,760 --> 07:30:24,558 home on a separate or sorry on the same water and the same sewer. Is that 4665 07:30:23,200 --> 07:30:28,478 allowed? >> It depends on 4666 07:30:25,840 --> 07:30:34,240 » have to be under our regulations. So >> but but uh we have so many regulations 4667 07:30:30,798 --> 07:30:37,120 about how um how many rooms you can have in a home to have a current septic 4668 07:30:36,240 --> 07:30:42,080 system. >> Yeah, that's related to the size of the 4669 07:30:38,958 --> 07:30:45,360 OWTS system. So those OWTS systems, they'll they'll state how many bedrooms 4670 07:30:43,760 --> 07:30:48,958 that that could support. So we size it off the number of bedrooms as well as 4671 07:30:47,680 --> 07:30:53,600 the permit, right? >> So if if you're maxed out a number of 4672 07:30:51,440 --> 07:30:56,638 bedrooms for your septic system, you couldn't build an ADU. 4673 07:30:55,120 --> 07:31:00,080 » No, you'd have Yeah, you'd have to upgrade your your OWTS system to support 4674 07:30:59,600 --> 07:31:04,478 that. >> What does OTTS mean? [laughter] 4675 07:31:02,398 --> 07:31:06,160 » On-site wastewater treatment system septic, sorry. 4676 07:31:05,760 --> 07:31:10,320 » Um >> and the water has the same issue, right? 4677 07:31:07,840 --> 07:31:13,680 your your well is permitted for X amount as well. Bedrooms. 4678 07:31:12,000 --> 07:31:17,200 » Two bedrooms. Okay. >> That's where strateus and that's between 4679 07:31:15,840 --> 07:31:20,718 them and the state. Yep. >> The state engineer. 4680 07:31:18,478 --> 07:31:26,240 » Yeah. Because >> so to you know to build an ADU, you may 4681 07:31:23,840 --> 07:31:30,478 have an existing home that there three bedrooms that has a OWTS that serves 4682 07:31:28,718 --> 07:31:35,200 three bedrooms. If you're going to build an ADU, whether or not you have to share 4683 07:31:33,360 --> 07:31:40,160 infrastructure, you're probably going to need to upgrade septic either whether 4684 07:31:37,520 --> 07:31:45,360 it's individually for that ADU or expanding the one you've got to share. 4685 07:31:42,718 --> 07:31:48,878 » In the DLD, we have a sanitation district. It's water that's the issue. 4686 07:31:47,920 --> 07:31:52,558 » Yeah. >> And on the water side, you either have 4687 07:31:50,160 --> 07:31:56,958 to buy property rights or I've heard of some folks that got the state to say, 4688 07:31:55,040 --> 07:32:00,638 "Okay, you know what? Fine. If you meter your water usage and keep your water 4689 07:31:58,958 --> 07:32:03,600 usage below a certain amount, we'll let you have water in this ADU. 4690 07:32:03,208 --> 07:32:08,958 [clears throat] >> Water is definitely the the problem with 4691 07:32:06,000 --> 07:32:13,920 ADUs here. Um, one suggestion I would have if you guys 4692 07:32:10,638 --> 07:32:18,000 are open to the language about um the new builds exempting from the cap, let 4693 07:32:16,240 --> 07:32:21,280 us do an analysis of where our banket parcels are 4694 07:32:19,440 --> 07:32:24,080 » and figure out like on a heat map like where is this really going to 4695 07:32:22,478 --> 07:32:27,440 potentially bring units and we can bring that back as part of the discuss. that 4696 07:32:25,680 --> 07:32:30,958 look like the timelines to somebody that just recently built a house, you would 4697 07:32:29,440 --> 07:32:34,240 have to apply before you built the house. 4698 07:32:31,760 --> 07:32:37,360 » I think um one thing the board would consider is because we had this weird 4699 07:32:35,760 --> 07:32:43,200 transition period once the rules are final if someone made that decision now 4700 07:32:39,920 --> 07:32:47,440 with the way ordinance tit is written um I I think kind of tough you know because 4701 07:32:45,680 --> 07:32:50,240 it was already on the books. I think if the board is open to a discussion about 4702 07:32:48,958 --> 07:32:53,920 the people who are caught in the transition between the old rules and the 4703 07:32:51,920 --> 07:32:58,160 new ones potentially started construction before ordinance 19 went 4704 07:32:55,840 --> 07:33:01,760 into effect. I think that's an different equity conversation, right? Because they 4705 07:32:59,920 --> 07:33:05,760 started construction under one set of rules and then by the time they were 4706 07:33:03,200 --> 07:33:07,440 done a different set of rules said now they can't do what they originally 4707 07:33:06,878 --> 07:33:10,240 planned. >> Possibly a new set of rules, 4708 07:33:09,520 --> 07:33:14,080 » right? >> We didn't change the cap when we did 4709 07:33:12,240 --> 07:33:16,878 ordinance 19. So maybe the proximity rule. 4710 07:33:14,398 --> 07:33:22,558 » The proximity rule primarily. So, I mean, in say saying this as generally as 4711 07:33:20,878 --> 07:33:25,760 possible, if a rule change caused someone who had already partially made 4712 07:33:24,240 --> 07:33:29,120 an investment under a certain set of rules caused them to not be able to get 4713 07:33:27,440 --> 07:33:32,000 it, I think we should allow that. >> But they still had not applied for that 4714 07:33:31,200 --> 07:33:34,718 permit. >> They weren't allowed to at that point 4715 07:33:33,360 --> 07:33:37,040 because it used to be, I think, under the old rules, it had to be after the 4716 07:33:36,000 --> 07:33:40,398 building was completed. >> Yep. Once once you couldn't apply for 4717 07:33:38,878 --> 07:33:43,280 your short-term rental license until you had your certific certificate of 4718 07:33:42,000 --> 07:33:48,478 occupancy in hand. Huge >> risk. Yeah. And then um 4719 07:33:46,798 --> 07:33:52,558 there was other individuals that didn't necessarily construct that were in the 4720 07:33:50,398 --> 07:33:59,280 purchase process during the transition too. Um would would it be possible to 4721 07:33:56,320 --> 07:34:03,760 just like put kind of like blanket no harm language 4722 07:34:01,360 --> 07:34:08,320 into the ordinance and and would you support that like 4723 07:34:05,920 --> 07:34:12,478 » to what end? [laughter] >> To to the end of and and I don't mean 4724 07:34:10,320 --> 07:34:16,558 blanket no harm like this like >> do no harm is I get language that says 4725 07:34:15,280 --> 07:34:20,080 that >> if you can establish you started making 4726 07:34:18,398 --> 07:34:24,080 investments before a rule change that rendered you ineligible then you can be 4727 07:34:22,398 --> 07:34:27,200 ex then then you can get a license. >> How would you prove that? 4728 07:34:25,440 --> 07:34:29,520 » Yeah, I can just see a lot of people go oh no I I started the investment 4729 07:34:29,040 --> 07:34:32,398 process. >> They would still need to the proponents 4730 07:34:30,878 --> 07:34:36,160 of announcements would be on them to show that they did something. They can't 4731 07:34:34,638 --> 07:34:40,878 just say it. They would need to show investment show like building plans or 4732 07:34:38,798 --> 07:34:44,798 something. what 4733 07:34:41,600 --> 07:34:48,558 » would they already have need need to be have a license for this to 4734 07:34:47,040 --> 07:34:52,398 » their building wasn't built so they couldn't apply for the license 4735 07:34:50,718 --> 07:34:55,520 » but they weren't insured that they would have gotten one if they built it in the 4736 07:34:53,920 --> 07:34:59,600 first place ever >> because the because the neighbor could 4737 07:34:57,120 --> 07:35:02,160 have been ahead of them on the wait list and could have gotten it and then they 4738 07:35:01,360 --> 07:35:06,558 would have built it. >> The issue is that there was no even 4739 07:35:04,718 --> 07:35:09,760 public contemplation of the adjacency roles when they started. 4740 07:35:08,398 --> 07:35:12,878 » So this is not it's not a legal argument. Yeah, it really is a fairness 4741 07:35:12,160 --> 07:35:17,040 argument. >> Well, except I I think I I'm seeing all 4742 07:35:15,200 --> 07:35:21,200 the problems with it. So, we might get ourselves into trouble if we just have a 4743 07:35:18,958 --> 07:35:25,440 blanket no harm >> or maybe it's a put an appeal process to 4744 07:35:23,680 --> 07:35:28,638 the board on this and they can make their case 4745 07:35:26,558 --> 07:35:33,120 » bas I don't think that we would necessarily 4746 07:35:30,478 --> 07:35:36,718 need the no harm language in there. Um there were there are those arguments 4747 07:35:34,558 --> 07:35:40,160 made that hey the regulations changed and because of this I I don't have the 4748 07:35:38,000 --> 07:35:44,160 adjoining parcel but on the old regulations licenses weren't turning 4749 07:35:42,718 --> 07:35:49,200 over because they were transferring with ownership and we did have individuals on 4750 07:35:46,160 --> 07:35:53,520 the wait list for multiple years. I mean they knew it was multiple years long at 4751 07:35:51,600 --> 07:35:56,558 that point in time. So I I don't know that we actually 4752 07:35:55,040 --> 07:36:00,398 » and they still can't apply till it's done. 4753 07:35:57,120 --> 07:36:05,760 » Right. Right. So, this is not the most important policy problem for us to 4754 07:36:01,840 --> 07:36:09,360 solve. Um, I I personally encourage would encourage if staff thinks they can 4755 07:36:07,680 --> 07:36:11,440 come up with a clean way to solve this, we're probably talking about a couple 4756 07:36:10,478 --> 07:36:15,280 instances. >> Yeah, we can take a look for sure. 4757 07:36:13,520 --> 07:36:18,080 » Um, I I I can't imagine we're talking about more than a couple instances. 4758 07:36:16,878 --> 07:36:22,000 » No, and it's really around that transition period. I think going forward 4759 07:36:20,160 --> 07:36:25,440 this has become a problem even less and less of a time. 4760 07:36:22,718 --> 07:36:28,878 » It's a change management conversation. Um, 4761 07:36:26,320 --> 07:36:38,240 » and it would just have to be the and the proximity would have to be the issue. 4762 07:36:32,958 --> 07:36:42,240 » This this gets close to um another topic 4763 07:36:40,320 --> 07:36:47,120 in my mind. I hear complaints about people holding dormant licenses and I 4764 07:36:44,558 --> 07:36:52,600 wonder if we should um not allow renewals with licens or lose it. 4765 07:36:49,600 --> 07:36:52,600 » Yeah. 4766 07:36:56,320 --> 07:37:01,440 standard license types specifically. Um, 4767 07:36:59,760 --> 07:37:03,680 » yes, on a standard license. >> Um, just to help administer the cat more 4768 07:37:03,120 --> 07:37:09,440 fairly. >> Yeah, I I've seen 4769 07:37:06,000 --> 07:37:15,360 limited um limited instances of this the with the 4770 07:37:13,920 --> 07:37:20,000 adjustment in fees. some of those individuals actually ended up giving 4771 07:37:17,440 --> 07:37:24,240 away their licenses because it become cost prohibitive to hold on to a license 4772 07:37:22,080 --> 07:37:28,080 if you're not it's it's not that that what was targeted through the fee 4773 07:37:26,398 --> 07:37:32,398 schedule but that's kind of the result that happened with those individuals 4774 07:37:29,360 --> 07:37:37,360 that were just sitting on licenses. Um I can think of a few isolated cases where 4775 07:37:35,280 --> 07:37:41,440 individuals might be holding on to a standard license type but they have the 4776 07:37:39,440 --> 07:37:46,718 intention to restore it back to a short-term rental license in the near 4777 07:37:42,958 --> 07:37:51,520 future. So, I'm I'm not sure. >> Well, maybe you must change it back to 4778 07:37:50,558 --> 07:37:55,600 the standard. >> They're willing to pay the fee for 4779 07:37:53,040 --> 07:37:59,600 getting nothing. >> They're they're paying the fees. They're 4780 07:37:57,520 --> 07:38:02,718 going through the process. >> But you were saying they had to upgrade 4781 07:38:01,040 --> 07:38:06,320 it to a standard short-term license. Were they getting a deal on having 4782 07:38:04,638 --> 07:38:08,958 » No, they're not upgrading it. That's the only one that has the weight list. 4783 07:38:07,520 --> 07:38:12,878 That's the only one we'd really concern ourselves with. So, primary residence 4784 07:38:10,798 --> 07:38:15,760 license holders, there's no cap on they can get they're living there. So really 4785 07:38:14,478 --> 07:38:18,718 it would only be applicable to the standard license type. 4786 07:38:17,360 --> 07:38:22,638 » Um >> and they are paying the fees. They went 4787 07:38:20,878 --> 07:38:27,600 through the short-term rental safety checklist and process and made it a 4788 07:38:24,558 --> 07:38:32,798 compliant property. >> But I agree that they shouldn't sit on 4789 07:38:29,600 --> 07:38:37,840 it for a year when other people want to. >> Right. There there is secondary 4790 07:38:35,200 --> 07:38:43,680 consequences to this. Um, please stop me if I shouldn't be speaking on this, but 4791 07:38:40,000 --> 07:38:47,600 it could be the the use or not the use tax, the taxable income from the 4792 07:38:45,840 --> 07:38:50,558 transient lodging tax, right? Because these short-term rentals are paying 4793 07:38:48,958 --> 07:38:53,520 transient lodging taxes. So, if somebody does have a license that they're not 4794 07:38:52,080 --> 07:38:59,040 utilizing, >> then you're not getting, 4795 07:38:55,920 --> 07:39:01,680 » right, maximize the fiscal productivity have. Yeah. 4796 07:39:00,000 --> 07:39:06,718 » So, I guess there there's that argument there for stagnant licenses. 4797 07:39:05,040 --> 07:39:10,320 This one is also low on my priority list, colleagues. The reason that it's 4798 07:39:08,160 --> 07:39:16,398 on my list is because I think I think because we have relative to other 4799 07:39:12,160 --> 07:39:21,360 counties a very low cap. Um we have a lot of scrutiny on how the cap 4800 07:39:18,240 --> 07:39:25,120 is administered and um when people make points about hey 4801 07:39:23,600 --> 07:39:29,360 this doesn't seem quite fair even when it's minor I'm like well maybe we could 4802 07:39:27,120 --> 07:39:34,240 fix it. So that's but it's low on my priority list. this isn't not like maybe 4803 07:39:32,000 --> 07:39:39,760 the least important of the things that we need to discuss, 4804 07:39:35,280 --> 07:39:46,478 » right? Well, as my I can't remember who said it, but you 4805 07:39:41,920 --> 07:39:53,120 know, when we have 163 licenses now, that could be 163 families that can't 4806 07:39:49,840 --> 07:39:53,120 buy a home in Clare Creek. 4807 07:39:53,360 --> 07:39:59,840 And maybe that's some information that we could provide in a future meeting is 4808 07:39:57,040 --> 07:40:05,280 is the really the types of homes that are short-term rental license uh 4809 07:40:02,000 --> 07:40:08,878 properties. Most most of the homes I would venture I guess are over half a 4810 07:40:07,040 --> 07:40:12,398 million dollars. I mean there's very few homes in Clar Creek County that are 4811 07:40:10,160 --> 07:40:15,120 already under half a million. But >> um 4812 07:40:13,680 --> 07:40:18,080 » we can provide that kind of study and let you know. I do most of the 4813 07:40:16,478 --> 07:40:22,878 short-term rental license properties are three and fourbedroom homes. I do know 4814 07:40:19,920 --> 07:40:26,718 that we have some of that u information. We'll make sure we provide 4815 07:40:25,360 --> 07:40:30,080 » I'm personally I'm a little less interested in that. It's just because 4816 07:40:28,080 --> 07:40:33,600 this this community has a these communities have a whole lot of people 4817 07:40:31,760 --> 07:40:37,040 that that have access to jobs that can afford those homes, 4818 07:40:34,798 --> 07:40:40,798 » right? They don't it may not be a local workforce solution, but it might be a 4819 07:40:38,878 --> 07:40:45,120 school population solution. It could be just like a having a community solution. 4820 07:40:43,280 --> 07:40:48,958 » Okay. So, we won't worry about bringing in any Democrats. I don't I don't think 4821 07:40:46,798 --> 07:40:52,240 like I I accept the argument and I don't think I need to I just don't find it 4822 07:40:51,200 --> 07:40:55,680 persuasive. So, I don't think we need to chase it down personally. 4823 07:40:54,080 --> 07:40:59,280 » Um um yeah, I I think that that one's a 4824 07:40:57,840 --> 07:41:03,440 little bit of a double-edged sword, too. I think you could make that argument 4825 07:41:00,798 --> 07:41:08,398 both directions a little bit. Um because what we're talking about here is also 4826 07:41:06,080 --> 07:41:11,680 trying to put a cap on like a runaway home values 4827 07:41:10,000 --> 07:41:14,398 » and not having a market that's overexposed to STRs helps, 4828 07:41:13,600 --> 07:41:16,958 » right? that doesn't really matter what the 4829 07:41:15,840 --> 07:41:20,718 house is worth initially. >> When I was campaigning two years ago, 4830 07:41:18,878 --> 07:41:24,080 people were bending my ear about short-term rental, 4831 07:41:21,840 --> 07:41:26,638 » but a lot of it is second homes, too. >> There's a lot of second homes around 4832 07:41:25,440 --> 07:41:29,760 here that there's nothing we can do about. 4833 07:41:27,360 --> 07:41:33,062 » No. And I think that's a that would be a great legislative issue. 4834 07:41:31,360 --> 07:41:35,840 » Yeah. [laughter] 4835 07:41:33,680 --> 07:41:39,920 the different rental people, you know, are coming into the communities and 4836 07:41:38,240 --> 07:41:43,440 shopping at the stores and going to the restaurants, but that second home, 4837 07:41:41,920 --> 07:41:48,000 » at least the ones in my neighborhood, maybe once every other year they visit 4838 07:41:45,280 --> 07:41:51,280 it. Otherwise, I do not see them. >> The the customer base that treats the 4839 07:41:49,920 --> 07:41:54,398 Georgetown market, at least when I was managing it most consistently, like 4840 07:41:52,798 --> 07:41:57,280 their primary grocery store, our short-term rental guests in Georgetown. 4841 07:41:56,080 --> 07:42:02,160 » Yep. Um they're also 4842 07:41:59,840 --> 07:42:06,558 second homes because when we had the um the wind knock those trees down, nobody 4843 07:42:05,040 --> 07:42:11,440 was looking at those homes like up at Mil Creek and there were trees down on 4844 07:42:08,878 --> 07:42:13,760 the lines at those homes for like a month 4845 07:42:12,160 --> 07:42:15,280 » before we figured because people weren't visiting it, 4846 07:42:14,638 --> 07:42:21,320 » right? >> Yeah. I think the secondary home thing 4847 07:42:17,520 --> 07:42:21,320 is a um 4848 07:42:21,680 --> 07:42:27,920 » I think the short-term rental gets a lot of slack from that. you know, people 4849 07:42:26,240 --> 07:42:31,478 don't understand there's two different things going on. 4850 07:42:31,680 --> 07:42:34,680 » Um, 4851 07:42:35,520 --> 07:42:41,360 so what's the what's the answer on the So the dormant licenses, do do we want 4852 07:42:39,360 --> 07:42:43,120 to mess with language around that or are we giving up? 4853 07:42:42,080 --> 07:42:46,958 » I don't have a strong opinion. >> We can we can definitely try to develop 4854 07:42:44,878 --> 07:42:50,478 some language and then we'll have the additional work sessions and we can 4855 07:42:48,638 --> 07:42:53,200 discuss it later. >> How many dormant licenses do you think 4856 07:42:52,000 --> 07:42:56,798 we have? >> Probably less than five. 4857 07:42:54,718 --> 07:43:00,320 » Yeah. Oh, so it's not really a big >> maybe medical reasons or all kinds of 4858 07:42:58,718 --> 07:43:05,760 reasons why >> yes um some individuals are hey I I 4859 07:43:04,240 --> 07:43:09,680 lived here this year I'm not living here this next year I'm going to come back 4860 07:43:08,798 --> 07:43:12,718 » etc. And then >> they're still paying their fees though. 4861 07:43:11,040 --> 07:43:15,600 » They're still paying their fees. Yeah. >> I mean that's that's almost a better 4862 07:43:14,398 --> 07:43:19,280 barrier. That's almost a better incentive to not hold a vacant like a 4863 07:43:17,760 --> 07:43:20,718 dormant license is you got to pay your fee every year. 4864 07:43:20,240 --> 07:43:22,958 » Okay. >> You know 4865 07:43:21,280 --> 07:43:25,520 » I think we give up on it. It's not a strong opinion if anybody has a strong 4866 07:43:24,558 --> 07:43:28,638 opinion. >> No. 4867 07:43:26,958 --> 07:43:31,600 » Yeah, I know it's getting really late. So, how are we doing on your list? Have 4868 07:43:30,240 --> 07:43:35,760 we hit the highlights? >> So, yeah. Basically, I just wanted to 4869 07:43:33,440 --> 07:43:41,280 hear the specific items that the board had and then I'll give a quick cap and 4870 07:43:38,718 --> 07:43:46,160 then we can I do what needs to. >> I've got a list with about six or seven 4871 07:43:43,840 --> 07:43:51,760 more things on it. >> Um, outdoor cooking. 4872 07:43:49,040 --> 07:43:56,398 We heard in a town hall in St. Mary's about how not allowing barbecues on site 4873 07:43:54,160 --> 07:43:59,440 is causing people to go by those temporary ones, 4874 07:43:58,000 --> 07:44:05,360 » resulting in a much more dangerous situation. I think I was I was persuaded 4875 07:44:02,878 --> 07:44:08,638 and I think that we should allow outdoor cooking. We can come up with some 4876 07:44:07,040 --> 07:44:11,520 standards that say spaces need to be cleared of combustible material or 4877 07:44:10,080 --> 07:44:14,718 something. I don't know. A lot of people do it on their wooden decks. I grew on 4878 07:44:12,958 --> 07:44:16,878 my wooden deck. So I I don't know exactly. 4879 07:44:15,280 --> 07:44:19,840 » Something they propane like they just shut it off. 4880 07:44:18,160 --> 07:44:23,440 » I think propane only, right? >> Yeah. No podcasts. 4881 07:44:21,680 --> 07:44:26,478 » Um but I think that's a a change that needs to happen. 4882 07:44:24,478 --> 07:44:30,718 » We can develop something with for that for um review at our next work session. 4883 07:44:29,440 --> 07:44:35,600 » Yeah, that that was a convincing argument to me too. 4884 07:44:31,760 --> 07:44:40,638 » Yeah. Um I think we need to try to fix the proximity rule. Um I think there's 4885 07:44:38,398 --> 07:44:44,638 we just um I've also heard stories that the 4886 07:44:43,280 --> 07:44:48,080 proximity rule is a little too restrictive. Right. one one property can 4887 07:44:46,478 --> 07:44:51,920 adjoin a whole lot of properties sometimes that are even trying to build 4888 07:44:49,280 --> 07:44:55,840 on other roads, right, based on how these mine claims work. [laughter] Um 4889 07:44:54,000 --> 07:45:00,558 and and so I would like to invite staff to try to come up with a better approach 4890 07:44:58,320 --> 07:45:03,440 to the proximity rule. >> Still desiring the proximity rule, just 4891 07:45:02,398 --> 07:45:05,040 an alternate approach. >> Yes. 4892 07:45:03,840 --> 07:45:08,160 » Okay. Is that >> Yeah, I think I think it's we do need to 4893 07:45:06,798 --> 07:45:10,718 we need to work on controlling the distance density issue where like 4894 07:45:09,600 --> 07:45:13,360 someone's living on a street with no neighbors, 4895 07:45:11,520 --> 07:45:18,798 » but we need to have a rule that I think is or a process potentially if if the 4896 07:45:17,120 --> 07:45:25,680 board would be okay with staff trying to work this out 4897 07:45:21,520 --> 07:45:32,478 internally um about because for the reality is any rule that we put in this 4898 07:45:28,958 --> 07:45:36,638 ordinance that's completely defined is going to leave someone out dry, right? 4899 07:45:34,958 --> 07:45:41,120 In a place in a situation that's not fair because of how weird our parcels 4900 07:45:39,280 --> 07:45:46,638 are in the county in like the roads and the mountains and all these things. 4901 07:45:42,718 --> 07:45:50,000 » Can you do like also per acre or for how far apart they are? 4902 07:45:48,240 --> 07:45:53,520 » Yeah. So, I think what what I'm asking is that you kind of give us a little bit 4903 07:45:51,360 --> 07:45:57,280 of a like a wide lane to look at like maybe some creative solutions because 4904 07:45:55,360 --> 07:46:02,798 what works in St. Mary's might not work in Evergreen and vice versa. and like 4905 07:46:00,478 --> 07:46:07,520 our parcels are weird, our terrain is different, you know. Um, and so maybe 4906 07:46:05,920 --> 07:46:10,718 maybe it's what we come back to the board with is a process of how to 4907 07:46:09,040 --> 07:46:15,200 administrate that through planning or something about what criteria do we look 4908 07:46:12,718 --> 07:46:18,398 at and when we make the determination of whether or not an adjacency is a 4909 07:46:16,718 --> 07:46:24,478 » Okay. So, I had a complaint when I was campaigning. Uh a woman, I believe it 4910 07:46:21,040 --> 07:46:28,958 was Whit Gulch, said that um you know, she moved into an area, six houses on 4911 07:46:26,638 --> 07:46:34,160 the road and then uh when I was campaigning a few years ago, five houses 4912 07:46:31,440 --> 07:46:40,320 have become short-term rentals and that was before we had a limitation on how 4913 07:46:37,600 --> 07:46:45,600 close they can be together and such. Is that still do you happen to know if 4914 07:46:43,120 --> 07:46:49,200 that's still a problem? >> I can take a glance. I know the spec the 4915 07:46:47,680 --> 07:46:51,200 very specific situation, >> okay, 4916 07:46:49,520 --> 07:46:54,200 » that you're talking about. >> Um, 4917 07:46:54,478 --> 07:47:03,600 » but we know the goal. >> While he's looking at that, I'll just 4918 07:46:58,958 --> 07:47:06,638 plant a seed with you all with you both. I've spent I've spent a couple years 4919 07:47:05,040 --> 07:47:09,920 debating with staff about the right way to come up with an objective metric that 4920 07:47:08,638 --> 07:47:14,160 works everywhere. And I just don't know if we can. It might be some kind of 4921 07:47:12,240 --> 07:47:18,398 appeal process that makes more sense. These situations are just inherently 4922 07:47:15,680 --> 07:47:21,440 subjective. Um, and I know that makes you nervous. 4923 07:47:19,200 --> 07:47:26,398 » I don't like it. [laughter] >> You'll need to set up criteria adopted 4924 07:47:24,160 --> 07:47:30,240 criteria if you're going to do that. So, >> not not entirely subjective. Maybe maybe 4925 07:47:28,638 --> 07:47:32,638 with a little bit of discretion. Let's put it that way. 4926 07:47:31,120 --> 07:47:35,360 » Yes. Grant some discretion. That's what I'm trying to say. 4927 07:47:33,680 --> 07:47:39,920 » Is that because you don't like staff's decision? 4928 07:47:37,440 --> 07:47:43,040 » No. Because right now staff has no nobody staff or the commissioners have 4929 07:47:41,680 --> 07:47:46,000 any latitude to say, "Oh, wow. This doesn't make sense right here 4930 07:47:45,120 --> 07:47:49,600 » because for [clears throat] our regulations to be supportable, they need 4931 07:47:47,760 --> 07:47:53,680 to not be totally subjective, >> right? And and I'm not trying to I'm not 4932 07:47:51,280 --> 07:47:56,718 trying to suggest we make it. >> No, we're not asking for arbitrary. 4933 07:47:55,120 --> 07:48:00,798 We're just me come up with an appeal process or something where we can look 4934 07:47:58,798 --> 07:48:04,558 at some other criteria on the decision because right now it's just straight 4935 07:48:01,920 --> 07:48:09,040 adjacency. You can't touch another one, right? And the situation is I think that 4936 07:48:06,240 --> 07:48:13,520 works in some places, but in places that are very dense like St. Mary's you can 4937 07:48:11,120 --> 07:48:17,040 have one house in the middle of 12 >> and all [snorts] of those can't have an 4938 07:48:15,120 --> 07:48:18,240 STR on it, right? So essentially that's dead, 4939 07:48:17,840 --> 07:48:22,080 » right? >> But if we come up with something good 4940 07:48:19,760 --> 07:48:25,200 enough hopefully won't have to have an appeal 4941 07:48:23,600 --> 07:48:26,798 » process. Well, 4942 07:48:25,760 --> 07:48:31,040 » if we can >> Well, I think we need to determine also 4943 07:48:29,200 --> 07:48:35,920 the relationship that this ordinance is going to have with the zoning code 4944 07:48:32,878 --> 07:48:39,680 » and whether or not that means a decision here would necessarily go to the board 4945 07:48:37,760 --> 07:48:43,600 of adjustment potentially. Would that possibly happen? 4946 07:48:40,878 --> 07:48:45,840 » It could happen, but not It depends on how we structure it. 4947 07:48:44,558 --> 07:48:50,478 » So, I would just want to make sure that we don't create too cumbersome, 4948 07:48:48,558 --> 07:48:56,080 » but I I think I hear some openness to it. Um, right. 4949 07:48:54,240 --> 07:48:59,520 Some some openness to innovative proximity to what was talking about and 4950 07:48:58,320 --> 07:49:02,478 I think we can come up with >> Yeah, we'll figure something out. I just 4951 07:49:00,878 --> 07:49:05,760 think we a little nuanced approach with this one. 4952 07:49:03,040 --> 07:49:11,760 » Yeah. Okay. So what did you find out >> uh in that area that particular area um 4953 07:49:09,280 --> 07:49:15,040 the number of STRs around that property have reduced? 4954 07:49:12,958 --> 07:49:21,040 » Okay. Down to what? >> Um one standard and two primary. 4955 07:49:18,958 --> 07:49:22,798 » Oh, much better. >> Yep. 4956 07:49:21,360 --> 07:49:26,320 » All right. Thank you. >> Um 4957 07:49:24,478 --> 07:49:30,240 I also just a quick comment on the survey results from this. I think you 4958 07:49:28,398 --> 07:49:35,440 have the reason that it's so negative is because it takes a long time for for 4959 07:49:33,440 --> 07:49:39,760 this rule to actually unwind like that culde-sac situation. So if things 4960 07:49:38,398 --> 07:49:43,040 haven't changed on the ground, residents are still going to be saying the 4961 07:49:40,718 --> 07:49:46,718 proximity rules don't work and obviously the operators hate them and so obviously 4962 07:49:45,040 --> 07:49:49,200 it's going to get you know the response to that question is going to be we all 4963 07:49:48,080 --> 07:49:51,920 think this isn't working. >> But that also he just said two 4964 07:49:51,200 --> 07:49:55,200 permanent. >> Yeah. So that really wouldn't apply if 4965 07:49:53,840 --> 07:49:58,638 there's permanent residents and you could have four permanent in one 4966 07:49:57,200 --> 07:50:02,080 » right >> gone then 4967 07:49:59,520 --> 07:50:07,440 » right you know her her problem was that it was all STRs at one point and they 4968 07:50:05,440 --> 07:50:10,558 weren't you know neighbors anymore. >> Yeah. She was saying she had no place to 4969 07:50:08,638 --> 07:50:13,360 get a cup of sugar. I remember she she had a really [laughter] 4970 07:50:11,920 --> 07:50:16,080 » Everybody needs to have a neighbor they can knock on to make sure their 4971 07:50:14,718 --> 07:50:19,440 chocolate chip cookies get done. >> Yeah. 4972 07:50:17,120 --> 07:50:24,760 » Um okay. So then the next one that we've gotten a lot of feedback on is fire 4973 07:50:20,798 --> 07:50:24,760 mitigation. Um, 4974 07:50:26,080 --> 07:50:35,840 my understanding is that staff has been allowing 4975 07:50:31,680 --> 07:50:40,398 because you've seen like $20,000 bills to get into compliance with the fire 4976 07:50:38,080 --> 07:50:44,000 mitigation in a long timeline to get a property up to a standard that 4977 07:50:41,840 --> 07:50:48,160 » Oh, yeah. Um it 4978 07:50:45,040 --> 07:50:51,520 » um staff has been saying we just need to see like some meaningful progress 4979 07:50:49,520 --> 07:50:55,360 towards these standards and you can get a license. Is that correct? 4980 07:50:52,958 --> 07:51:00,958 » Uh what staff has done is given an allowance to get defensible space 4981 07:50:57,440 --> 07:51:04,080 corrected um when we were transitioning into those new additional requirements 4982 07:51:02,398 --> 07:51:07,440 because we had a whole lot of existing STR licenses that needed to come up to 4983 07:51:06,000 --> 07:51:12,638 speed with the new defensible space requirements. Um so in those instances 4984 07:51:10,478 --> 07:51:17,200 we said hey okay we'll give you till the end of the summer get get your property 4985 07:51:14,478 --> 07:51:22,320 into compliance etc etc. Um before we issue a new license to an unlicensed 4986 07:51:19,520 --> 07:51:27,280 property it needs to be in compliance. >> So that was for renewals and this could 4987 07:51:24,398 --> 07:51:33,120 be maybe a change my my focus here is on change management. Um, 4988 07:51:30,558 --> 07:51:38,478 can we come up with something that allows 4989 07:51:34,718 --> 07:51:42,000 an operator to make progress, you know, at a reasonable pace towards 4990 07:51:40,398 --> 07:51:47,840 meeting the standards in these documents that we refer to um, over a period of 4991 07:51:44,558 --> 07:51:52,000 years rather than say you're up for renewal. You've got to get 4992 07:51:50,160 --> 07:51:54,638 $20,000 in six months worth of work before you can get your license. I think 4993 07:51:53,120 --> 07:51:58,478 this puts us in a hard place because we've also talked about wouldn't it be 4994 07:51:56,160 --> 07:52:03,520 nice if we could go and tell certain neighbors and and neighborhoods that you 4995 07:52:01,280 --> 07:52:09,040 need to have defensible space and these are instances only instances where this 4996 07:52:05,600 --> 07:52:13,760 can happen on new builds and this and so people are sitting and and putting also 4997 07:52:11,280 --> 07:52:18,798 their neighbors at risk by not having defensible space. So if you want to get 4998 07:52:16,160 --> 07:52:24,160 relaxed with that, you could be potentially keeping 4999 07:52:21,040 --> 07:52:28,478 neighborhoods in harm's way, I think. So like I'm not saying not to do it, just 5000 07:52:26,320 --> 07:52:32,320 we have to be very conscious of it um because of the climate that we're we're 5001 07:52:30,160 --> 07:52:36,718 living in now. some of the conversations that we have with defensible space on 5002 07:52:35,040 --> 07:52:40,558 because everybody that had a license has already had to come into compliance and 5003 07:52:38,558 --> 07:52:43,280 then we've gone through some renewals already and they said, "Well, you told 5004 07:52:41,840 --> 07:52:47,920 me about defensible space last year and I spent $4,000 on it and now I have to 5005 07:52:45,600 --> 07:52:51,360 spend $4,000 again." It's like, "Yes, this is something that is a cost and it 5006 07:52:49,920 --> 07:52:55,520 does have to be maintained annually because we have so many areas where 5007 07:52:52,958 --> 07:52:59,120 growth comes back so quickly." Um, and just trying to manage that expectation 5008 07:52:57,520 --> 07:53:02,000 that, you know, this is going to be a continual maintenance cost associated 5009 07:53:00,638 --> 07:53:06,240 with having a short-term rental license is maintaining your defensible space. 5010 07:53:03,680 --> 07:53:08,160 It's it's not free. And um, >> insurance companies are requiring it, 5011 07:53:07,840 --> 07:53:11,600 too. >> Right. Yeah. 5012 07:53:09,280 --> 07:53:14,878 » Yeah. And it's I mean, it's really becoming a part of home ownership here. 5013 07:53:13,360 --> 07:53:17,680 » Yeah. It >> It's really some point you're gonna get 5014 07:53:16,478 --> 07:53:25,920 forced into it either way. >> Yeah. I I just the the point that I'm a 5015 07:53:21,760 --> 07:53:30,680 little bit stuck on here is I want David saw a compelling reason to 5016 07:53:30,958 --> 07:53:38,638 um change how the ordinance was enforced 5017 07:53:36,080 --> 07:53:42,000 and I would like to have him be more well positioned than that. I think that 5018 07:53:40,558 --> 07:53:46,718 information is likely to be the same next summer and and the ordinance may as 5019 07:53:45,360 --> 07:53:52,000 well reflect what's actually happening on the ground. I would prefer that, too. 5020 07:53:49,200 --> 07:53:56,240 » So, we we're going to give them uh they can have a gas grill, 5021 07:53:54,320 --> 07:54:01,040 but we're going to say no, you have to have defensible space. 5022 07:53:58,638 --> 07:54:05,520 » All right. Um, we will >> Is that what you were saying? 5023 07:54:03,120 --> 07:54:08,240 » Oh, I I would just like to have a have it written into the ordinance what the 5024 07:54:06,958 --> 07:54:13,600 standards are and what we're going to allow instead of have it become a an 5025 07:54:10,558 --> 07:54:18,798 enforcement matter because that comes with its own issues. Would you 5026 07:54:15,520 --> 07:54:23,360 colleagues would you indulge just asking if staff can come up with an 5027 07:54:21,840 --> 07:54:26,798 approach to change management on this? Just just come up with something in 5028 07:54:24,718 --> 07:54:30,080 between zero to 100 >> like a grace period. 5029 07:54:28,160 --> 07:54:34,398 » Something a grace period or like let's say we quantify there's $30,000 worth of 5030 07:54:32,320 --> 07:54:37,680 work that has to happen here. $10,000 a year. You got to show that you've spent 5031 07:54:35,760 --> 07:54:41,040 $10,000 every year. Within four years, three years, whatever you're going to 5032 07:54:38,718 --> 07:54:46,240 » No, it's not that you've spent it. It's that okay. So you've gone out 10 ft, 5033 07:54:44,000 --> 07:54:47,760 then you went out 20 feet, and now you got the last 5034 07:54:47,360 --> 07:54:51,920 » sure, >> you know, 5035 07:54:48,878 --> 07:54:55,920 » 10 ft, you know, total 30. >> Whatever the specifics look like, just 5036 07:54:53,280 --> 07:54:58,718 some kind of a graduated change approach um rather than an all at once approach 5037 07:54:57,280 --> 07:55:02,240 because I mean these >> I would say how long have you been 5038 07:55:00,798 --> 07:55:06,718 working on your property? >> Uh since 2001. 5039 07:55:04,320 --> 07:55:08,638 » Yeah. Holy moly. >> I think that maybe this might be 5040 07:55:08,240 --> 07:55:12,478 something >> but this past year was the worst. hard 5041 07:55:10,638 --> 07:55:16,718 to memorialize in the ordinance that's going to apply broadly because we are so 5042 07:55:14,638 --> 07:55:21,200 different and every parcel is going to have different requirements and um 5043 07:55:19,200 --> 07:55:26,798 things like that. I think it it could just be uh an administrative process or 5044 07:55:24,478 --> 07:55:31,360 understanding that staff can have that we would um work through the defensible 5045 07:55:29,360 --> 07:55:35,280 zones potentially or something like that. I know you want it memorialized. 5046 07:55:33,760 --> 07:55:38,638 We'll talk. Yeah. >> Discretion. Yeah. Some discussion. 5047 07:55:36,878 --> 07:55:40,878 » Discretion. But yeah, it needs to be written. 5048 07:55:39,040 --> 07:55:46,320 » I hope that everybody's in compliance now. It's just the the the new ones that 5049 07:55:44,558 --> 07:55:48,718 the defensible space. >> So 5050 07:55:46,718 --> 07:55:53,520 » went through all the people that >> Yeah. On the renewals, right? So on the 5051 07:55:51,120 --> 07:55:57,360 annual renewal, they initially came in, we gave them grace to come into 5052 07:55:55,120 --> 07:56:01,920 compliance with defensible space. >> They've gotten that already. 5053 07:55:58,398 --> 07:56:05,760 » Yeah. Upon upon renewal, a maintenance issue with their space, we 5054 07:56:03,920 --> 07:56:09,920 do afford them to continue operating until they they get it corrected in a 5055 07:56:07,840 --> 07:56:12,798 reasonable timeline. Um, and that's how we've been handling it as staff on the 5056 07:56:12,240 --> 07:56:14,958 renewals, >> but now like those trees are growing 5057 07:56:14,398 --> 07:56:16,798 back. >> Yes. 5058 07:56:15,280 --> 07:56:20,000 » It just continues. She's been working on it since 2000. 5059 07:56:17,680 --> 07:56:25,280 » They they grow back incredibly fast. It's amazing. So, um, and then some 5060 07:56:23,760 --> 07:56:27,840 people have grasses planted around their house and they have to have their 5061 07:56:26,240 --> 07:56:31,680 grasses knocked down under a certain height. And you go one year and it's 5062 07:56:29,440 --> 07:56:36,478 like, okay, hey, get your lawn mower out, knock that down to less than 6 in, 5063 07:56:33,440 --> 07:56:39,600 please, for this um, first 30 foot away from your house and you give them a 5064 07:56:38,398 --> 07:56:44,638 couple weeks to get it done. They generally get it done. It's usually not 5065 07:56:41,600 --> 07:56:50,398 um, as cumbersome the following years financially once they have their 5066 07:56:46,958 --> 07:56:55,360 defensible space established. And uh when we met with our insurance agency, 5067 07:56:52,798 --> 07:56:59,280 insurance agent two weeks ago, I said, "So, do we get any discount for all of 5068 07:56:57,920 --> 07:57:03,360 this work we've done?" Because she did compliment us on all the trees we took 5069 07:57:01,200 --> 07:57:06,878 down. And she said, "Yes, you get to keep your insurance." So, it's like, 5070 07:57:06,080 --> 07:57:10,558 "Oh, no." >> Sounds like a conversation I had. 5071 07:57:08,638 --> 07:57:16,638 » I said that. Yeah. >> Um, do we want to move on to the next 5072 07:57:12,878 --> 07:57:21,920 one? Just one other on fire. Um, do we I'm looking through the ordinance right 5073 07:57:17,840 --> 07:57:27,520 now. Do we require people to post egress instructions? Like if if you get an 5074 07:57:24,478 --> 07:57:29,840 evacuation notice like >> guest guide book, 5075 07:57:28,478 --> 07:57:31,520 » guest guide book has evacuation instructions. Here's your evacuation 5076 07:57:31,120 --> 07:57:33,360 route. >> Yep. 5077 07:57:31,840 --> 07:57:36,000 » Perfect. >> Um and that's all none of that is 5078 07:57:35,040 --> 07:57:38,958 written in the ordinance, right? The ordinance just says you can build a 5079 07:57:37,360 --> 07:57:43,600 guest guide book, >> right? 5080 07:57:39,520 --> 07:57:46,160 » Uh we have Let me pull up the ordinance. >> We can we can get into that later. 5081 07:57:45,040 --> 07:57:52,600 » Okay. >> You're saying it's good. I'm saying it's 5082 07:57:47,920 --> 07:57:52,600 good. It's 4:15. Um, 5083 07:57:53,280 --> 07:57:58,878 we already talked about primary residence. We already talked about 5084 07:57:56,718 --> 07:58:03,440 insurance. We do think that that shifting the insurance rules is is good. 5085 07:58:00,478 --> 07:58:07,520 » I think we already agreed to that in >> and we want to see this ordinance 5086 07:58:05,280 --> 07:58:12,040 reflect that. Okay. Um, we talked about transfer, we talked about the capac, 5087 07:58:16,320 --> 07:58:21,760 but That is it is what it is, right? 5088 07:58:20,080 --> 07:58:24,558 » So, my last topic is just our process from here. 5089 07:58:23,040 --> 07:58:29,680 » Okay. >> What do you mean enforcement like 5090 07:58:27,200 --> 07:58:34,478 disinforcement or when we have to send the sheriff out because 5091 07:58:32,080 --> 07:58:40,000 they have a storebought and grill whatever. 5092 07:58:38,240 --> 07:58:43,600 » So, what I'm sorry, what's your the question? 5093 07:58:40,878 --> 07:58:47,520 » The uh it says enforcement. Just plain enforcement. Oh, I mean I think there 5094 07:58:46,320 --> 07:58:52,638 there are a lot of options for enforcement. I mean there's we you know 5095 07:58:50,878 --> 07:58:56,878 that we there's a straightforward path to enforcement by removing listings. 5096 07:58:55,200 --> 07:59:02,878 There's straightforward path to enforcement by revoking licenses or 5097 07:59:00,000 --> 07:59:07,760 binding people um which we can do under the ordinance there. There's also, you 5098 07:59:06,000 --> 07:59:14,478 know, there are additional enforcement options, but it would require putting 5099 07:59:11,280 --> 07:59:18,478 language in um our zoning essentially in our zoning regulations that that make it 5100 07:59:16,558 --> 07:59:21,200 also a zoning violation to not comply with the the licensing requirements. 5101 07:59:20,000 --> 07:59:23,520 » Some of the stuff's like you get a warning and then some of the stuff you 5102 07:59:22,478 --> 07:59:28,398 do this, you're done. >> Yeah. Yeah. Could do that. 5103 07:59:27,040 --> 07:59:31,440 » So, you'd like to see like a more itemized like what's the enforcement 5104 07:59:30,320 --> 07:59:33,200 action based on which kind of violations? 5105 07:59:31,920 --> 07:59:36,878 » So, it's not confusing to them. >> Yeah. Yeah, 5106 07:59:35,440 --> 07:59:41,200 » I if you're talking about the survey results, I interpreted that basically 5107 07:59:38,798 --> 07:59:43,600 just as as uh 5108 07:59:42,320 --> 07:59:46,320 » the public wants to see us do a better job. 5109 07:59:44,718 --> 07:59:51,120 » Right. Well, that's why I was asking what the enforcement exactly means on 5110 07:59:48,160 --> 07:59:54,718 the >> Let me go to the enforcement on the 5111 07:59:53,440 --> 07:59:59,600 you're talking about in the engagement survey on the on the written responses 5112 07:59:57,600 --> 08:00:02,718 where they had concerns about enforcement 5113 08:00:00,638 --> 08:00:05,600 » like is enforcement happening? enforcement. 5114 08:00:03,280 --> 08:00:08,478 » Is this a real STR or are they faking it? 5115 08:00:06,160 --> 08:00:13,120 » Yes, enforcement is really happening. Enforcement's going very well with how 5116 08:00:10,638 --> 08:00:17,840 the ordinance is currently configured. Um, we have developed some great 5117 08:00:15,600 --> 08:00:22,000 relationships with the um listing agencies about getting non-licensed 5118 08:00:19,680 --> 08:00:26,398 properties taken down. almost eliminates the need for anything to go through the 5119 08:00:23,840 --> 08:00:31,440 AO's office on notice of violations and regular um civil enforcement mechanisms 5120 08:00:29,440 --> 08:00:37,440 um because of those great relationships that we have developed. Um the when it 5121 08:00:34,798 --> 08:00:41,920 comes to those licensed individuals who are out of compliance when we receive 5122 08:00:39,280 --> 08:00:45,760 those complaints that license is a lot of motivation for those individuals to 5123 08:00:43,760 --> 08:00:49,440 maintain compliance. um if they don't maintain compliance with the short-term 5124 08:00:47,200 --> 08:00:53,280 rental ordinance, um they lose their license and then initially then we'll 5125 08:00:51,120 --> 08:00:57,680 have them taken off the listing agencies and they're just a regular resident 5126 08:00:55,360 --> 08:01:00,638 again. So, um I think all of our enforcement mechanisms that are 5127 08:00:59,120 --> 08:01:05,840 currently in the ordinance are working very well for the county. Um I think 5128 08:01:02,718 --> 08:01:10,080 it's going pretty good. Um we could look to 5129 08:01:07,360 --> 08:01:15,120 potentially create an itemized list or more clarity about when these come into 5130 08:01:13,200 --> 08:01:17,520 place. It's not broken. Don't Don't fix it. 5131 08:01:15,440 --> 08:01:21,280 » Okay. >> Jody, do you feel that way? 5132 08:01:19,600 --> 08:01:26,160 » Depending on like what the people were talking about in this is is is all 5133 08:01:24,160 --> 08:01:30,160 » Yeah, I think our enforcement is going well. 5134 08:01:28,798 --> 08:01:36,000 » I think so too and it's really really new and so I 5135 08:01:33,680 --> 08:01:40,320 although I do Kathy mentioned I think putting putting this in in whatever way 5136 08:01:37,920 --> 08:01:46,558 they construct into the zoning code so it's also a zoning violation is smart. 5137 08:01:43,600 --> 08:01:51,840 Yeah. So, the the enforcement statutes for zoning and building code enforcement 5138 08:01:48,718 --> 08:01:55,040 recently changed and our fines are significantly higher now than they were 5139 08:01:53,920 --> 08:02:02,160 in the past and they're also significantly higher than um CRS 3015. I 5140 08:01:59,840 --> 08:02:10,240 think it's 402 since forth the ordinance penalties. They're significantly higher 5141 08:02:05,520 --> 08:02:14,000 than those. So there's a big um just 5142 08:02:12,080 --> 08:02:17,040 it's leverage I guess and motivation to comply. 5143 08:02:14,558 --> 08:02:21,558 » So if you're seeking direction on that um my answer is yes. 5144 08:02:21,600 --> 08:02:25,120 » I have confused though. >> Yeah. 5145 08:02:23,920 --> 08:02:30,080 » Look at that. >> Um as far as the process colleagues, I 5146 08:02:27,520 --> 08:02:36,878 looked at the in the document it says we need two more work sessions and then a 5147 08:02:32,878 --> 08:02:41,680 first reading and then a second. I don't think we need four more meetings 5148 08:02:38,718 --> 08:02:44,478 on this >> because you won't 5149 08:02:43,200 --> 08:02:48,478 » because you won't be here. >> I would like to be part of passing this 5150 08:02:46,000 --> 08:02:51,840 ordinance. Um [laughter] >> also we run the potential of having more 5151 08:02:50,320 --> 08:02:53,760 meetings on this than the budget, >> right? 5152 08:02:53,280 --> 08:02:57,440 » Um >> whatever the legal part of this is, I'm 5153 08:02:55,680 --> 08:03:01,040 good with. I think I what I would recommend is based on some of the 5154 08:02:59,360 --> 08:03:05,200 discussions that you've had today. I don't know if that if I don't know if 5155 08:03:03,200 --> 08:03:08,080 you've have enough information in front of you for us to bring a bring red lines 5156 08:03:07,040 --> 08:03:10,080 that you're going to be having. >> I think I do. 5157 08:03:09,360 --> 08:03:13,200 » Do you? >> Yes. 5158 08:03:10,718 --> 08:03:19,280 » I mean, I've heard some let's think of ideas and let staff come up with with 5159 08:03:16,080 --> 08:03:21,280 stuff. Do you want us to draft it? So, I mean, I think 5160 08:03:19,920 --> 08:03:23,840 » draft it as first reading and then if y'all have any changes, we'll bring it 5161 08:03:22,478 --> 08:03:28,000 to second. >> Okay. I also I would I would also 5162 08:03:25,920 --> 08:03:32,958 recommend just making some kind of public engagement possible for people to 5163 08:03:30,958 --> 08:03:36,878 comment on the draft before it actually comes to you for a first reading so that 5164 08:03:34,958 --> 08:03:40,878 you'll have the benefit at the first reading of those public comments. That 5165 08:03:39,440 --> 08:03:46,000 doesn't need to be any additional meetings. It can just be some way for 5166 08:03:43,280 --> 08:03:52,200 people to email their comments or on the what the ordinance is going to look 5167 08:03:47,360 --> 08:03:52,200 like. Could it be like uh 5168 08:03:53,440 --> 08:03:58,478 outreach to the operators? Say, hey, look, these are the things the board has 5169 08:03:56,240 --> 08:04:00,878 directed us to look at. Here are the options that we've developed. What do 5170 08:03:59,840 --> 08:04:06,240 you think? >> I I would suggest that we just did a 5171 08:04:03,600 --> 08:04:11,120 standard press release and said, "Hey, the countyy's updating its ordinance. 5172 08:04:08,398 --> 08:04:16,000 Here's the website." And then put a link to the draft and a link to an email and 5173 08:04:13,680 --> 08:04:18,240 call it. I think that's better because we don't just want the operator's 5174 08:04:17,760 --> 08:04:22,080 comments. >> We want everybody. I think that'll give 5175 08:04:19,840 --> 08:04:25,520 you a more robust ordinance in general, too. [laughter] 5176 08:04:23,440 --> 08:04:28,558 » If it helps. The first survey was posted on social media and we did get public 5177 08:04:27,440 --> 08:04:32,638 comments from them. >> A lot actually. Yeah. Really high a high 5178 08:04:31,280 --> 08:04:35,760 level of engagement, which is great. It's what you want. 5179 08:04:33,920 --> 08:04:39,840 » Well, and this is potentially a big part of that same group that wrote that 5180 08:04:37,440 --> 08:04:47,600 letter that didn't feel like they had engagement on the ballot. So, 5181 08:04:45,440 --> 08:04:51,120 » um I I mean I for what it's worth, I think our instructions from the public 5182 08:04:48,878 --> 08:04:54,160 are very clear. People want to see short-term rentals not take over 5183 08:04:52,638 --> 08:04:56,478 neighborhoods, not burn down neighborhoods, and not cause 5184 08:04:55,680 --> 08:04:59,680 neighborhoods not [clears throat] to be able to sleep, 5185 08:04:57,840 --> 08:05:02,958 » and not price out neighborhoods. >> Right. 5186 08:05:01,040 --> 08:05:09,280 And on the flip side, we recognize how important this is to individuals if 5187 08:05:06,798 --> 08:05:14,558 we're not in the business of wanting to shut them down because obviously we do 5188 08:05:11,200 --> 08:05:19,760 need money off of them um for taxes. So, >> oh it man, I might regret saying this, 5189 08:05:17,920 --> 08:05:21,600 but it is a better solution than a vacant second home, 5190 08:05:20,878 --> 08:05:26,798 » right? >> Is in a lot of ways. properly regulated, 5191 08:05:23,840 --> 08:05:30,958 » properly regulated, like a home is better than a vacant, unoccupied home 5192 08:05:29,280 --> 08:05:34,958 that someone's in two weeks a year that just sits there and isn't maintained and 5193 08:05:32,958 --> 08:05:37,440 just, you know what I mean? No one's in it, 5194 08:05:36,160 --> 08:05:40,160 » you know, that kind of stuff. So, >> maybe people come and visit us, then 5195 08:05:39,040 --> 08:05:42,878 they want to move here. >> Yeah. 5196 08:05:42,080 --> 08:05:46,638 » Okay. >> All right. Thank you. Uh, real quick 5197 08:05:44,958 --> 08:05:52,478 before we go, there's going to be additional changes um to the short-term 5198 08:05:50,320 --> 08:05:55,680 redline changes suggested that'll come at you in that next word session that 5199 08:05:53,760 --> 08:05:59,680 weren't specifically communicated today. Those are administrative changes that 5200 08:05:57,520 --> 08:06:04,638 don't really change policy direction and uh intent um at all. It's just 5201 08:06:02,320 --> 08:06:09,440 structural changes to the ordinance and um staff recommended u things for 5202 08:06:07,840 --> 08:06:11,440 clarity and different things like that. Uh other than that, 5203 08:06:11,120 --> 08:06:14,638 » great. >> We'll wrap it up. Thank you very much. 5204 08:06:13,440 --> 08:06:18,240 » Thank you. >> All right. Uh the 5205 08:06:16,320 --> 08:06:22,958 » board of county commissioners is now moving back into executive session for 5206 08:06:21,040 --> 08:06:26,320 the following purposes. >> Um we did already read it into the 5207 08:06:24,878 --> 08:06:28,878 record, but I'll read it. >> You don't have to reread it if it's 5208 08:06:27,760 --> 08:06:32,558 already in the record. >> Yes, but I think we should go and do 5209 08:06:30,638 --> 08:06:35,680 another motion just because it's been since this morning. 5210 08:06:33,680 --> 08:06:39,520 » All right. Go for it, Peter. So, pursuant to CRS 2464024B 5211 08:06:38,398 --> 08:06:42,558 with the county attorney to meet with the board of county commissioners for 5212 08:06:40,718 --> 08:06:46,320 the purposes of receiving legal advice on specific legal questions pertaining 5213 08:06:44,878 --> 08:06:49,440 to the intergovernmental agreement between Gilpin County and Clear Creek 5214 08:06:47,920 --> 08:06:53,360 County for the operation of an animal shelter and determining positions 5215 08:06:51,520 --> 08:06:57,600 relative to matters that may be subject to negotiations, developing strategy for 5216 08:06:55,440 --> 08:07:02,958 negotiations, and instructing negotiators with regard to the IG. 5217 08:07:01,280 --> 08:07:10,320 » Second. >> Any discussion? Hearing none. All in 5218 08:07:06,558 --> 08:07:15,440 favor? I. Motion passes. We're moving into executive session. Thank you. 5219 08:07:13,280 --> 08:07:19,160 » Thank you. >> Oh. Oh, sorry. 5220 08:39:54,718 --> 08:40:01,440 The Creek Board of County Commissioners is back in session after executive 5221 08:39:58,638 --> 08:40:06,000 session at which no decisions were made, no minutes were kept, and we are back in 5222 08:40:04,000 --> 08:40:09,718 session in order to adjourn. We are so adjourned. Thank you. 5223 08:40:10,798 --> 08:40:14,600 Oh, good news. You guys graduated.