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Seeing no objections, we're ready.
Jenna,

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good morning everybody. Welcome to
Clearwater County's regular council

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meeting for September 8th, 2026.
I'd like to call the meeting to order at

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9:00 a.m. And I'd like to welcome all
members of public in attendance here

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00:22:26,559 --> 00:22:32,320
this morning in the gallery andor
virtually attending. I'd also like to

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welcome all members of council here this
morning. And I'd like to welcome staff

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who will be providing council with
information and facts so that we can

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make the best decisions on behalf of
residents, businesses, and stakeholders

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of Clearwater County.
I'd like to just ask council if anybody

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has a potential conflict or pecuniary
interest on any agenda items here this

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morning.
Seeing none, I'd just like to remind

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everybody that all regular council
meetings are live streamed and recorded.

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Any verbal or written information
provided may be included in public

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documents as per access to information
act sections four and protection of

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privacy act sections 2, four, and five.
Are there any additions to today's

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agenda or deletions?

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» No amendments to today's agenda. Be
looking for a motion to adopt the

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» Deputy Grief. Go ahead.
>> Thank you. I believe there is uh one

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item to be added to close session.
>> Okay, that's what I'm looking for is a

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motion to amend the agenda.
>> Deputy Re, you'd be willing to make that

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motion to amend the agenda?
>> I will. Okay, we have a motion on the

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floor from Deputy Reeve Mccay to amend
the August,

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sorry, my apologies. September 8th, 2026
agenda. Seeing no discussion, I'll call

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the question. All those in favor?

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Councelor Smeck, did you vote? Are you
opposed?

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» I'm opposed.
>> Okay.

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» What's the agenda?
>> Uh, right now we just voted on whether

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we're going to amend the agenda. The
proposed amendment will be coming

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forward here in seconds.
>> Okay.

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ended.
>> Okay. So, I believe that was a unanimous

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vote to amend the agenda for September
8th.

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Deputy Eve, if you'd like to propose the
amendment.

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» Thank you, Eve. Uh, the amendment would
be uh item 10.2

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and it would be a uh verbal update to
council regarding a presentation and it

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would be uh harmful to business
relations.

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Okay, we have a motion on the floor or
an amendment to the agenda from Deputy

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Recc. Seeing no discussion on that
amendment, I'll call the question. All

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those of all those in favor
and that has carried unanimously.

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Now be looking for a motion to adopt the
regular council meeting for September

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8th, 2026 as amended unless there are
any other additions or deletions.

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Councelor Humphrey, you'd like to make
the motion to adopt the regular council

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meeting as amended?
>> Yes. Okay. Have a motion on the floor

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from councelor Humphrey to adopt the
regular council meeting for September

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8th, 2026 as amended. I'll call the
question. All those in favor? And that

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motion is supported by council. Moving
into the regular council meeting minutes

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for August 25th, 2026. Were there any
errors or omissions noted?

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If not, I'd be looking for a motion to
adopt those minutes as presented.

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Councelor Pal makes a motion to adopt
the August 25th, 2026

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regular council meeting minutes. as
written. Seeing no discussion, I'll call

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the question. All those in favor?
And that motion is supported by council.

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Moving into item five on today's agenda,
delegations and presentations. Item 5.1,

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we have a 9:00 a.m. delegation from
Rocky Seniors Housing. And I would like

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to welcome Vanessa from the Rocky
Seniors Housing Council to join us here

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this morning. I know that some of the
members on council have served on the

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Rocky Seniors Housing Council board, but
uh maybe we'll start with a quick round

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of introductions and you can meet the
rest of council.

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Good morning. My name is Brienne Powell.
I'm W one counselor.

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» Good morning, Hazen Lewin, Clearwater
County Council, Ward Two.

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» Good morning, Drew McCay. Deputy Ree and
W three.

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» Good morning, Vanessa. Very nice to see
you. Jordan Northcot Reeve of Clearwater

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County and Ward 4 counselor.
>> Good morning, Tyler McCauley, counselor.

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W five.
>> Good morning. Brian Stern, counselor for

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division six. Good morning. Lauren
Humphrey, counselor, ward 7.

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[clears throat]
>> Good morning. Rhonda Sirhan, manager of

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financial services.

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» Good morning, Michael Simpson, chief
administrative officer.

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» It's turned on for me. Perfect.
>> Uh, good morning. Thank you for having

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me here today. Uh, Reeve, Deputy Reeve,
Counselors and Administration. My name

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is Vanessa Kid. I'm the CEO of Rocky
Senior Housing Council. I'm here today

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to talk about independent senior housing
project opportunities as well as to

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request municipal partnership and
funding support for an upcoming

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affordable housing partnership program
application.

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So, this application will be the um it's
the funding vehicle for capital to do

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some building in our area. and it's a
provincial uh program and what we're

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going to what I'm going to talk about
today is sort of what is needed to

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leading up to that application and to
get some projects going for our area. So

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just really quickly a a really brief
overview of what we do. So our purpose

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is affordable independent senior living
for Clearwater region residents

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to the next one. Um and our main
strategic priority which we established

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just in the last couple of years was
regional housing project expansion in

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the Clearwater region. So that that has
been our main focus. Um as we are

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incorporated under the Alberta Housing
Act um in April 1st, 1995 to administer

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seniors housing locally. We also are our
mandate is to provide affordable homes

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for low and moderate income seniors a 65
plus. We have safe and comfortable

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independent living and dignity and
connection with community is what we

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strive for.
So our current portfolio, we've got uh

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our lodge, Westview Lodge, here in Rocky
and five apartment buildings, a total of

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148 homes that we supply to the
Clearwater region. With the lodge, it is

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owned and operated by Rocky Senior
Housing Council. And then the

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self-contained apartments. So, uh, those
are all the ones Lesieville, Caroline,

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and the ones in Rocky as well. Those are
owned by the Alberta Social Housing

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Corporation and operated by Rocky Senior
Housing Council.

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Within that portfolio with the two um
areas I just talked about, these are

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actually two different housing models
themselves. So lodge accommodation the

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revenue comes from resident rent
municipal requisition provincial uh LAP

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and whereas the the revenue for the
self-contained apartments is tenant rent

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and then it's currently deficit funded
from the province for any of our

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operating deficits.
The difference between the two housing

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models uh as well is what is provided.
So, it's uh fairly comprehensive for the

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lodge. Meals and snacks, housekeeping,
uh your 24-hour non-medical staff. And I

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want to stress that um everything we
have now is non-medical. We don't

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provide any health care or anything
along those lines. All of our residents

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in the lodge and our self-contained
apartment tenants are um independent.

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And then, so with the self-contained
apartments, they're just like a regular

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apartment building. Um, we do have the
residential tenency act that governs

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over this as well as the Alberta housing
act sort of with both of the housing

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models. Um, but it's affordable housing
and it's for seniors 65 plus whose

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income is under 42,000 annually. And we
do a rent gear to income to calculate

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the rent. So that is based on your line
15,000 income.

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This last slide just really talks about
how the stewardship is shared

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provinially and municipally uh locally
here. So with the Alberta housing act

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and it regulations the residential
tenency act also the continuing care act

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I don't have that mentioned on there but
that is um the lodge has to follow lodge

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accommodations under the continuing care
act and a ministerial order that also

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dictates what we have municipally. for
our board. Um that comes from what's

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listed on our ministerial order. We've
got the six members that are appointed.

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And then with our operations, we have
governance and operation policies that

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we follow. And I just wanted to
highlight with the community supports,

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we do have home care and other service
organizations that come into the lodge

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and the self-contained and they support
the residents just like they would for

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for any senior living even on their own
on their own.

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Okay. Okay. So, we'll get into uh the
main part of my presentation today and

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this is the senior housing feasibility
assessment that was just uh done for us

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by Collier's project leaders.
So, um Collier is with this feasibility

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assessment as I kind of alluded to
before we are wanting to apply to the um

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the I'm going to call it just the AHPP
the affordable housing partnership

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program. And that application will be
opening up in the fall. We we'll hear

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more about that in my in my presentation
here. So the information that's in here

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today is uh what we've learned um some
things that we need to do to strengthen

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our application and um yeah just go
forward.

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So the case for action the demand so
with afford with with the AHPP

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um they need to know that there is
demand and we obviously know that living

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here but these are things that uh we
need to be able to prove in our

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application. So the 2025 apartment
vacancy and rental cost survey, this is

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something that helps the colleers
determine or note that we we pretty much

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have zero vacancy. So that is a recorded
survey. Um of those

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all of our units, a lot of the units
that are for in the private market are

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more than 10 years old for those those
rental units. Specifically for the Rocky

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Senior Housing Council, weight listed
households for the Rocky self-contained

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properties are at a 2 to one. So for
every uh 12 weight listed households, we

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only have like roughly about one vacancy
and that was at the end of July. I will

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note that um we'll talk about this a
little bit later as well, but Mountain

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Sunset Manor uh does have a couple
vacancies at this point. Um no waiting

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list. Um, Lesleyville is full, but it
does have doesn't have a waiting list as

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well at this time. [snorts]
Um, I'll just this next part with a 76%

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increased growth in residents age 75
plus. I'll talk about that more on the

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next slide.
So, this shows uh nicely our seniors

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demand wave. Um, this is a government of
Alberta projection and it was put out by

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Treasury Board and Finance and it is for
the Rocky Mountain House local

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geographic area. So this is not just for
Rocky. It includes uh the county. It's

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Caroline, Lesleyville, Ecville,
[clears throat] and Condor. And it's

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about 22,400
people. It's not so just again

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stipulating it's not just for Rocky. So
what this shows us, and again I think we

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we all know what what this um this is
true for our area and for everywhere in

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Alberta and across the country. The
dotted lines show that our current total

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population is probably going to be
fairly flat for the next 15 to 20 years

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in our area. That's what's being
projected from the government of

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Alberta. However, we see the the demand
for seniors housing resting in the

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change in the age mix. So with that
green line there, that is the age 75

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plus and 95% of that growth is going to
be arriving by 2041. So that just

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secures our case that in the next 15
years um we really will will have that

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the the [clears throat] big demand there
needed for um housing. It really

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supports the demand wave supports um the
application and that's what funders are

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are looking for.
So I'm going to talk about uh the couple

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of areas and the sites that we want to
focus our age application on. So

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Caroline, now Caroline has a couple of
areas that we'll need uh that has

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readiness readiness requirements and
that's partially part of my ask today

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while I'm here.
So the what what Collier did is they

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looked at 16 to 40 independent units in
Caroline. Uh the location has been the

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location we've been hearing uh that is
desirable would be on the 48th A parcel

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that's currently owned by the county and
it's right beside the arena there in

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Caroline. It would be uh 9.1 to 22.6
million. That is the range. That's a

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class D estimate. That excludes the cost
of land. The class D is a wide

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tolerance. It is not at all a budget.
It's just sort of for planning figures.

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So that would put on 16 to 40
independent units. Um [clears throat]

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I will address at this point about lodge
because we have had um people in

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Caroline have said that there they
there's kind of a split on this V3

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survey that's happening [clears throat]
right now with seniors housing uh the

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study that's taking place. Roughly half
people say that they would like to have

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food supplied and that type of thing and
the other half um is good with the

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independent senior housing. So when we
had this um assessment done by collers

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it focused on independent units when we
when they presented to the board the

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board um also discussed the idea of what
about having a lodge in Caroline. So

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this does not have lodge uh capital
figures prepared for today. Um but they

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did look into because the question was
asked how many uh lodge units are needed

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for um economies of scale um in a
community like Caroline where it's a

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little bit smaller.
>> [snorts]

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» Um operating costs for lodges are
roughly about 64% of that is your human

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resource cost. Accommodation standards
and licensing under the continuing care

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act um requires a lot of things is the
supportive living environment. Although

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it doesn't have health, it's still
supportive living and it's considered

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that. So that's your 24-hour staffing.
It's all the the different stipulations

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that are required for um to have a lodge
and to have the food. So I just would

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like to say that that is something that
is uh still being looked at but it will

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require further review before any real
numbers can be presented.

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[clears throat] Okay. So into the three
items for oh sorry I just need you to go

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back down. Um so the three readiness
requirements the demonstrated demand.

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So, as I had said for Mountain Sunset
Manor, what we have and what we've seen

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at our level at Rocky Senior Housing
Council is there is a little bit of

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vacancy and some occupancy that is it's
still available there. Um, there's spots

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available at Mountain Sunset Manor. Um,
and that we need to have a documented

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demand pool available for our AHPP
application. I do think with this V3

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study that's being done that we are
going to have what we need in that study

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that shows um you know there's the
engagement that that happened there with

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the Caroline folks and um I think that
is something that can be very well

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accomplished easily enough for the
application um just having the

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information from the V3 report
and then the written funding commitment.

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00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:48,400
So this is where this comes in for
Clearwater County in the town of Rocky

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00:37:46,240 --> 00:37:52,640
Mountainhouse. the the funding
application is strengthened by

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00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:56,960
commitment from the municipalities.
That's really what's needed to move it

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00:37:54,320 --> 00:38:01,359
forward. It's a huge part of it. Um as
well with that is funding commitment as

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00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:06,000
well and we'll we'll talk about that a
little bit later on when we talk about

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00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:09,760
funding a little bit more.
Um

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00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:16,000
then the final thing would be the site
and servicing. So another big part of it

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00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:19,920
is having that land um ready to go. So
that 48th Avenue uh is owned by the

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00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:24,480
county. We would need to have a land
title transfer to Rocky Senior Housing

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00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:29,680
Council and we need confirmation for the
servicing capacity for that lot. Um just

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00:38:27,599 --> 00:38:34,000
to understand how many units we would be
able to build there.

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00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:37,359
Go down. Thanks. Leslieville, this is
just really high level just letting you

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00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:43,119
know what's going on there. We had a
facility condition uh assessment

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00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:46,720
completed and the idea is do we want to
upgrade the existing building or do we

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00:38:45,119 --> 00:38:50,960
want to look at is there expansion
potential. So that is still being

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00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:56,800
confirmed. Um but we've had the site
capacity looked at and depending on

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00:38:53,760 --> 00:39:02,480
which way that would go. Um the age
application needs to have five new net

225
00:38:59,359 --> 00:39:06,000
units. So it would be just with the
amount of space there is for setbacks

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00:39:04,079 --> 00:39:11,599
there. It would be it might be harder to
have an actual addition. So we might not

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00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:15,359
go the AHP way for that but maybe a
renewal of those units would be direct

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00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:19,359
to housing and lodge renewal programs.
Um but there is some some work being

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00:39:17,599 --> 00:39:25,232
considered for Lesleyville as well. So I
wanted to touch on that. If we move on

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00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:28,720
to Rocky. So Rocky is considered more
[clears throat] sight ready in terms of

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00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:32,079
collers and and their assessment on
everything. I think the biggest part of

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00:39:29,839 --> 00:39:38,800
that is that it has got a Rocky Senior
Housing Council owned site. We do have

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00:39:34,720 --> 00:39:44,079
land already um owned by us and there is
also um a demand that's proven with our

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00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:49,920
our weight list there for self-contained
units being needed in Rocky. The class

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00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:54,560
uh D escalated to a 2028 construction
date would be 6.9 million and that

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00:39:52,720 --> 00:39:59,920
excludes land just like uh the Caroline
one excluded land as well, the cost of

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00:39:56,480 --> 00:40:02,960
land. Um, so basically what would be
built there or what what could be

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00:40:01,359 --> 00:40:08,079
allocated in that space would be a
three-story concept about uh

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00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:11,359
approximately 12,200 gross square feet.
It doesn't require ongoing municipal

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00:40:09,839 --> 00:40:15,359
requisition. It's not a lodge. It
wouldn't be a lodge. Um, it should be

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00:40:13,359 --> 00:40:20,960
funded uh solely from the rent that
would be made there. Uh, one thing for

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00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:24,400
Rocky and for Caroline is accessibility
would be embedded as a design

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00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:27,359
requirement. So, that's a big thing
we're seeing just with our senior

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00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:31,280
self-contained, especially their older
buildings. Um, with walkers and even if

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00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:35,280
somebody has a wheelchair they need
inside their unit. Um, and also they're

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00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:38,480
all all old school bathtubs. So, getting
in and out of those are a little bit

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00:40:36,720 --> 00:40:42,960
harder. So, definitely in any new
builds, we want to have that

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00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:47,200
accessibility embedded in that.
Um what's needed for Rocky and this

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00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:53,839
would be a town thing is we do need to
uh redesate it to medium density res uh

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00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:59,520
red medium density res residential
uh for this um idea for the 16

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00:40:56,319 --> 00:41:03,599
self-contained units to work. Um again
the land already in hand is the

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00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:07,040
strongest single feature of this part of
the application.

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00:41:05,599 --> 00:41:12,560
The next slide talks about the
multi-level care facility that we've

254
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:17,839
been talking about. So um there has been
a bit of mention maybe here with the

255
00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:22,640
county but definitely with the town um
and this is something an assessment

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00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:27,119
being done under well underway and
there's a separate recommendation that

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00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:31,680
will follow at the end of October. Um
there will be as we know with that

258
00:41:29,599 --> 00:41:35,280
previous slide that there's a big growth
with residents age 85 plus and we're

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00:41:33,839 --> 00:41:39,599
thinking more with those ones. Those are
the people that will need to be uh

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00:41:37,359 --> 00:41:44,640
moving into these uh sort of a higher
care. So, this would expand us into more

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00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:48,319
of a health care. Uh, multi-level care
is where you start out where you've got

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00:41:46,079 --> 00:41:53,599
your independent market seniors housing
and then some lodge units and then you'd

263
00:41:50,240 --> 00:41:58,720
also have a higher care level. The idea
would be to absorb some of the ALC, the

264
00:41:56,800 --> 00:42:04,960
alternative level of care patients that
are at the Rocky Hospital. Um, so that

265
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:10,160
we can free up those beds for u the
acute care patients that need to be in

266
00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:14,560
there in the Rocky area. So this would
be something that the study would look

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00:42:11,839 --> 00:42:18,960
at to see if if we're able to uh help
out with that. So that's just some

268
00:42:17,119 --> 00:42:24,319
information that way. There'll be more
information on that coming up.

269
00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:30,319
The next slide. So what happens next?
The H the AHPP intake is not currently

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00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:34,319
open. Um but typically what happens is
it opens at the end of October,

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00:42:32,319 --> 00:42:39,520
beginning of November and it stays open
until about the end of February of the

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00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:45,599
following year with the approvals
happening or the uh awarding of the

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00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:50,960
capital funding happening by April.
And um a big thing that determines

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00:42:49,119 --> 00:42:55,359
submission for us to move that
application forward is this municipal

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00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:58,400
commitment. So just going through the
bit of the timeline here. This

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00:42:56,960 --> 00:43:02,400
feasibility assessment for the
independent portion uh is what we're

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00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:06,560
talking about right now. And so that's
completed. I I am doing the municipal

278
00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:11,040
delegations right now. I'll meet with
the town of Rocky next week. Then the

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00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:17,119
funding applications will take place
with the AHP um application period as

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00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:21,520
said in the later fall and early in
January of 2027.

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00:43:19,359 --> 00:43:26,640
And then if approval happens and we are
able to move forward, we go with design

282
00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:31,040
and approvals with uh the design making
sure we can can build what we we want to

283
00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:35,760
be building. And then construction would
aim to start in 2028. So this little

284
00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:40,319
timeline specifically there in this
slide there, Collier is referring more

285
00:43:37,839 --> 00:43:45,520
to uh the Rocky one just because the
line land is in hand, but the idea is to

286
00:43:42,720 --> 00:43:50,319
submit everything that we want to do for
housing in a regional housing

287
00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:54,400
application. So the I wouldn't be stuck
on the words in the blue box that say

288
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:58,480
annual review of Caroline readiness that
Caroline readiness needs to happen so

289
00:43:56,480 --> 00:44:02,640
that it can be submitted in the fall
with the rocky one as a complete uh

290
00:44:01,200 --> 00:44:05,920
package and you know trying to
understand if the the lodge the

291
00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:11,680
multi-level care facility will be
included in that as well. Um the lodge

292
00:44:09,359 --> 00:44:16,000
configuration idea for Caroline would be
assessed too in the meantime and as said

293
00:44:14,079 --> 00:44:19,000
as well that multi-level care study
continues.

294
00:44:19,119 --> 00:44:26,720
Okay. And so the funding this looks
specifically uh at the example of the

295
00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:32,160
Rocky Mountain House uh planning
estimate because that one's a little bit

296
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:37,040
more solid with having um the land.
However, you can just look at this as

297
00:44:35,040 --> 00:44:41,680
like with the planning assumptions that
it would go for any anything that would

298
00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:47,280
happen under the regional housing uh
that we want to be building under this

299
00:44:43,359 --> 00:44:53,520
AHPP application. So the the the split
there, the 50 3020 split is maybe a

300
00:44:50,319 --> 00:44:59,200
typical uh planning assumption with that
6.9 million million needing to build. Uh

301
00:44:57,040 --> 00:45:04,640
the expectation or sort of what usually
happens is 1.4 4 million would come from

302
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:09,839
municipal contribution for the
provincial portion of it to unlock at

303
00:45:07,119 --> 00:45:13,760
2.1 million and then after that the 3.4
million from the federal. So you kind of

304
00:45:11,839 --> 00:45:18,640
need to be unlocked at each stage for
that to to to get those the full funding

305
00:45:16,720 --> 00:45:24,480
coming in.
Um, I want to address that we do have a

306
00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:29,680
very um supportive um MLA. Minister
Nixon uh does have some he really would

307
00:45:27,200 --> 00:45:34,400
like to see some buildings in our area
and there's been a lots of talk about

308
00:45:31,440 --> 00:45:39,760
that and we still need to remember that
an application still has to evidence

309
00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:43,200
support from other funding uh sources to
have it be really strong and to have

310
00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:48,160
that municipal commitment. So, we want
to have that in place. Um it's really

311
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:52,920
great that we do have our MLA support um
as we've been uh told for that.

312
00:45:52,960 --> 00:46:01,200
Um, so I think that's yeah, really I
guess to to sum it all up, uh, what

313
00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:06,079
we're asking for is we would need that
land title transfer for that parcel in

314
00:46:04,319 --> 00:46:10,400
Caroline to move forward with this the
Caroline Senior's housing and also to

315
00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:14,160
have confirmation for servicing
capacity, what needs to happen there,

316
00:46:12,646 --> 00:46:18,319
[snorts] and the written confirmation
that the county would be on board to

317
00:46:16,319 --> 00:46:23,680
support these initiatives moving forward
and that they would fund um, regional

318
00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:27,760
senior housing builds and be be uh good
with that. So

319
00:46:25,839 --> 00:46:30,720
like to invite any questions and thank
you uh for your time.

320
00:46:29,359 --> 00:46:33,680
» Excellent. Thank you very much Vanessa
for your time and the presentation.

321
00:46:32,079 --> 00:46:39,119
Before we open the floor up here for
questions or comments from council, I do

322
00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:43,119
have one question for CEO Simpson.
In the delegation package, it's

323
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:49,119
identified land title transfers and
servicing capacity and so on regarding

324
00:46:45,599 --> 00:46:52,560
uh land and proximity to 48th Avenue.
Is further discussion or questions

325
00:46:50,640 --> 00:46:56,720
regarding uh this parcel of land
appropriate for open session or would

326
00:46:54,480 --> 00:47:01,520
that be more appropriate for a closed
session agenda or discussion?

327
00:47:00,240 --> 00:47:04,800
CEO Simpson.
>> I think that uh if you're going to have

328
00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:07,839
an open conversation on all the
possibilities regarding that parcel that

329
00:47:06,560 --> 00:47:13,280
you would want to reserve that for close
session.

330
00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:16,960
» Okay. So if there's um as this has been
published to the community, I just

331
00:47:14,720 --> 00:47:20,319
wanted to uh I believe [clears throat]
that's fine, but just if there's further

332
00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:25,920
discussion or comments from council
regarding the parcel, we would move into

333
00:47:23,520 --> 00:47:29,200
close session. Other than that, the
floor is open for comments or questions

334
00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:33,040
regarding any other comments on this
agenda item and this delegation. Deputy

335
00:47:31,599 --> 00:47:36,800
Reef, go ahead, please.
>> Thanks, Ree. I just have a question, not

336
00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:39,920
regarding the the land per se in
Caroline, but more regarding the

337
00:47:38,079 --> 00:47:44,079
facility itself. Has there been
consideration given to a hybrid facility

338
00:47:41,839 --> 00:47:47,440
that would offer lodge and independent
living rather than looking at it as an

339
00:47:46,240 --> 00:47:50,720
eitheror,
>> a combination? Yeah. Right.

340
00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:56,960
» Yes. I think that would be something
that would be considered and probably

341
00:47:54,079 --> 00:48:00,480
» yeah would make sense. Just the idea of
the lodge and what it's needed to

342
00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:05,040
support in a smaller community. Um and
that 40 units sort of being you need to

343
00:48:02,720 --> 00:48:09,680
have that or the lodge part of it. Um,
that's sort of the number they gave us,

344
00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:11,760
but we're all we're looking at all of it
still, right?

345
00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:16,480
» Okay, I understand though. I didn't
realize it was a certain capacity that

346
00:48:14,079 --> 00:48:20,480
had to be reached before it could be
fall under lodge parameters. So, thank

347
00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:25,119
you.
>> Just further on that, Vanessa, sorry, on

348
00:48:23,119 --> 00:48:28,319
the uh [clears throat]
for final design,

349
00:48:26,559 --> 00:48:32,079
» whether the final design is lodge or
independent or combination of the two,

350
00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:36,079
that decision still could come at the
design phase in the future.

351
00:48:34,079 --> 00:48:38,240
Yes. Yeah, that's that's all stuff to be
decided definitely.

352
00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:42,000
» Okay.
>> Yeah, because we don't even have the

353
00:48:39,359 --> 00:48:44,960
capital numbers in there for what the
lodge would require for costing that

354
00:48:44,160 --> 00:48:47,920
way.
>> No, thank you for the clarity on that.

355
00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:51,359
» Y
>> councelor Serach, I think you're indic.

356
00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:58,400
Yeah, go ahead, Councelor Serach.
>> Yes. Um, when do we get the final word

357
00:48:55,040 --> 00:49:02,480
on Collier and the V3 study that we're
doing? So the collier should have like

358
00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:06,160
you're talking about the multi-level
lodge like that portion of it to sum

359
00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:10,000
that up that's going to be by the end of
October and I believe the V3 information

360
00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:13,040
is supposed to be done by the end of
October as well. That's just what I've

361
00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:17,280
heard. I don't know for sure on that
one. So it should be just right in time

362
00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:22,480
for that when that application period
opens for AHPP which is great timing.

363
00:49:20,480 --> 00:49:25,680
» So we should have the information that
we need to go ahead with all of these

364
00:49:24,559 --> 00:49:31,000
projects by then.
>> Yeah.

365
00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:31,000
» Thank you. Mhm. Welcome.

366
00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:38,319
» Okay. Um
there's three items here for the

367
00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:44,720
demonstrated demand.
>> The uh Mount Setset Manor says there was

368
00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:48,640
a wait list. Um
there's been some vacancy there, but

369
00:49:46,240 --> 00:49:53,839
maybe that was uh
a shortfall on community awareness that

370
00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:55,200
those rooms are available for Sunset
Manor.

371
00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:59,040
» Mhm.
>> Okay.

372
00:49:56,960 --> 00:50:03,119
Are there any other questions, comments?
Nope.

373
00:50:00,640 --> 00:50:08,480
» Oh, Mr. Ham, go ahead, please.
>> Yeah, I just wanted to reiterate um one

374
00:50:06,640 --> 00:50:12,400
of the portions of Miss Kit's
presentation is that independent living

375
00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:18,240
is not subsidized through the
municipality. However, lodge operations

376
00:50:15,440 --> 00:50:24,079
are. And how that happens is that the
seniors um housing council sends a

377
00:50:21,520 --> 00:50:31,200
requisition over to Clearwater County
just prior to the tax rate um bylaw

378
00:50:27,599 --> 00:50:35,440
being um passed by council and that
amount is then distributed over the

379
00:50:33,839 --> 00:50:41,119
amount of the assessment. Like
Clearwater County doesn't have a say per

380
00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:46,800
se in what that requisition amount is
for lodge um operations. And then the

381
00:50:44,240 --> 00:50:51,720
independent living is subsidized. The
deficit is subsidized through the

382
00:50:48,720 --> 00:50:51,720
province.

383
00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:55,480
Okay.

384
00:50:58,079 --> 00:51:04,079
So, Miss Kit on these, you would need a
written funding commitment from

385
00:51:02,319 --> 00:51:09,280
Clearwater County to proceed forward
with the application. So [clears throat]

386
00:51:07,920 --> 00:51:13,359
would it be appropriate, I believe, at
this time to that council direct

387
00:51:10,880 --> 00:51:20,160
administration to bring back uh written
commitment funding written funding

388
00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:24,430
commitment and site servicing
information to our next regular

389
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:28,359
Clearwater County Council meeting
[snorts] for council [clears throat]

390
00:51:25,359 --> 00:51:28,359
consideration.

391
00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:36,960
Is council clear on the motion? Okay,
the motion is on the floor. If there's

392
00:51:34,480 --> 00:51:40,319
no further discussion on that,
I'll call the question. All those in

393
00:51:38,160 --> 00:51:44,319
favor?
That motion is supported by councel.

394
00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:47,760
Are there any other questions on this
delegation or regarding seniors housing

395
00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:52,000
in our region? If not, I'd be looking
for a motion to accept the delegation

396
00:51:50,720 --> 00:51:54,160
» of information, but at this time, go
ahead, Miss S.

397
00:51:52,880 --> 00:51:57,440
» Yeah, just one question. When did you
require the letter by?

398
00:51:56,960 --> 00:52:00,960
Well,
>> probably by the end of October would be

399
00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:06,559
good when everything else is coming in.
>> Okay, thank you. That would be great.

400
00:52:04,240 --> 00:52:09,680
And uh I did include at our next regular
Clearwater County Council meeting. So we

401
00:52:08,160 --> 00:52:13,040
should have that information from
administration and allow that time for

402
00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:17,520
them to put that information together
for council consideration. So looking

403
00:52:15,520 --> 00:52:23,839
for a motion to accept the delegation as
information. Um councelor Humphrey. Um

404
00:52:20,960 --> 00:52:29,200
before that I do have one question uh
regarding the uh Mloud Manor renewal

405
00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:33,599
unless
the

406
00:52:31,359 --> 00:52:37,440
site constraint
uh expansion potential is being

407
00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:41,920
confirmed.
>> Yes, it's being that so I my

408
00:52:39,680 --> 00:52:48,800
understanding is the setbacks where it's
right now it doesn't provide a lot of

409
00:52:44,400 --> 00:52:52,960
extra room to expand in there. Um, so we
would assess whether it would just be or

410
00:52:50,720 --> 00:52:57,440
it would be assessed is could it be
expanded upon or is it best just to

411
00:52:55,200 --> 00:53:01,599
update all those units in there, get
some better bathrooms, um, you know,

412
00:53:00,160 --> 00:53:06,240
that type of thing. Accessible
bathrooms, I guess.

413
00:53:02,640 --> 00:53:08,559
» So, we would still only have the four
units

414
00:53:07,839 --> 00:53:11,359
there.
>> Yeah, at this point.

415
00:53:11,119 --> 00:53:17,599
» Okay.
>> If if we can't do any expansion.

416
00:53:13,760 --> 00:53:21,359
» Okay. When do you uh when when do you
expect to have that information on

417
00:53:19,599 --> 00:53:25,040
whether we could expand
>> that was actually part of this

418
00:53:23,119 --> 00:53:29,440
assessment that was being done? So we
should have and it was done for somebody

419
00:53:27,200 --> 00:53:33,680
underneath Collier. So the assessment's
been done but the finalized information

420
00:53:31,359 --> 00:53:38,720
the board hasn't received yet but that
should be available soon. We could have

421
00:53:35,839 --> 00:53:41,200
it passed on by through a board report
or something I guess.

422
00:53:40,319 --> 00:53:48,400
» Yeah.
>> Okay. Yep. And and further to that, I'll

423
00:53:45,200 --> 00:53:52,960
make a motion that we accept the uh
accept this as information.

424
00:53:51,280 --> 00:53:56,800
Okay, we have a motion on the floor from
councelor Humphrey to accept the Rocky

425
00:53:54,960 --> 00:54:01,760
Seniors Housing Council delegation as
information. See no further discussion.

426
00:53:59,040 --> 00:54:05,359
Call the question. All those in favor?
Motion is supported by council. Thank

427
00:54:03,920 --> 00:54:09,160
you very much, Miss Kid, for coming in
and joining council today.

428
00:54:12,640 --> 00:54:17,720
We're going to move into our agenda item
5.2

429
00:54:19,200 --> 00:54:28,160
which is a gravel road maintenance
uh by Don RDE and uh DK blade services

430
00:54:25,440 --> 00:54:31,800
is on page 24
of today's agenda.

431
00:54:33,920 --> 00:54:37,720
Welcome to council.

432
00:54:42,240 --> 00:54:48,359
I'll pass the floor over to
administration whenever you uh are ready

433
00:54:45,200 --> 00:54:48,359
to present.

434
00:54:56,240 --> 00:55:03,599
So good morning Ree Northcot and
council.

435
00:55:00,640 --> 00:55:08,480
So, at the uh at the regular council
meeting on July 28th, 2026, the

436
00:55:06,160 --> 00:55:14,079
following motion was carried. Uh
resolution 476-2026

437
00:55:11,599 --> 00:55:18,880
motion by Reeve Jordan Northcott that
council direct administration to bring

438
00:55:15,760 --> 00:55:25,599
back information budget and cost
comparison considerations regarding July

439
00:55:21,119 --> 00:55:30,880
28th 2026 agenda item 7.3.1 gravel road
network maintenance operations program

440
00:55:28,480 --> 00:55:34,720
review.
Um to address some of the concerns

441
00:55:33,119 --> 00:55:38,400
raised, administration has brought
forward the following information for

442
00:55:36,800 --> 00:55:42,000
consideration.
The information regarding graveling and

443
00:55:40,160 --> 00:55:48,640
crushing operations will be brought
forward at a future council meeting for

444
00:55:44,559 --> 00:55:53,040
review and discussion. So to help uh
council in regards to some of the

445
00:55:51,119 --> 00:55:58,079
concerns and questions that they had at
that time, we've put together this

446
00:55:55,359 --> 00:56:03,119
agenda item which will address those
questions along with uh bringing

447
00:55:59,920 --> 00:56:12,720
together our team and a subject matter
expert in Mr. Don RDE. Uh Mr. Rude is

448
00:56:07,760 --> 00:56:17,920
considered um uh uh an industry expert
throughout Western Canada and uh he will

449
00:56:16,000 --> 00:56:23,440
pro help provide uh professional
expertise and industry perspective on

450
00:56:20,400 --> 00:56:30,240
some of these practices. So I will just
uh turn it over right now to Mr. Rude in

451
00:56:26,480 --> 00:56:36,079
regards to uh uh just introducing
himself and some of his background. And

452
00:56:33,280 --> 00:56:42,400
then at that time I will turn it over to
uh both uh Sean our project technologist

453
00:56:39,359 --> 00:56:47,040
and Betina our director of of uh
agricultural and community services to

454
00:56:45,119 --> 00:56:53,760
address some of the concerns as
associated in the agenda item itself.

455
00:56:50,079 --> 00:56:58,880
And Mr. Rude is here to address some of
those uh concerns and questions as well

456
00:56:56,799 --> 00:57:03,440
and any other questions you may have in
regards to the uh maintenance of gravel

457
00:57:01,920 --> 00:57:07,119
roads.
So, Don, if you want to introduce

458
00:57:05,280 --> 00:57:11,680
yourself.
>> Good morning. Uh thanks for having me.

459
00:57:08,880 --> 00:57:16,824
Uh my name is Don RDE. I own DK Blade
Service. Um just a little bit of

460
00:57:14,480 --> 00:57:22,880
background on me. I started in the dirt
[clears throat] world in 1988. Um, and I

461
00:57:20,000 --> 00:57:28,799
was on a dirt crew in special areas. And
then, uh, been in the dirt my whole

462
00:57:24,799 --> 00:57:32,640
life. Uh, and then in, uh, 1999, I
bought my first grader with Red Deer

463
00:57:30,880 --> 00:57:39,440
County. I got on with the division in
Red Deer. And, um, it was then that I

464
00:57:36,160 --> 00:57:46,240
started seeing kind of a a breakdown of
of our system or lack thereof, a system

465
00:57:43,119 --> 00:57:50,720
for maintaining our gravel roads. And,
um, I was struggling with that. I've

466
00:57:48,640 --> 00:57:56,880
struggled with that my whole career is
we we we've never been able to come

467
00:57:52,799 --> 00:58:01,520
together as a team and to know exactly
how to blade a road, what to do with the

468
00:57:58,559 --> 00:58:07,839
roads. Um we ask 10 different people. We
get 10 different answers all the time.

469
00:58:03,920 --> 00:58:14,160
And um so I started uh developing the
system to help all of us learn what it

470
00:58:11,520 --> 00:58:18,880
takes and how hard it actually is to
maintain a road. Um, we all think, you

471
00:58:17,520 --> 00:58:23,599
know, we just put the blade down and
everything is good. And it's there's a

472
00:58:20,720 --> 00:58:29,839
lot more that goes into it. And to to
build a team environment, we we have to

473
00:58:27,040 --> 00:58:35,680
everybody has to uh learn from the top
down on what it takes to maintain and

474
00:58:33,119 --> 00:58:41,839
the tools, the proper tools we need to
succeed. So, I've been doing this

475
00:58:38,720 --> 00:58:47,680
training now for the last eight years.
Um, I'm working with about 40

476
00:58:44,400 --> 00:58:54,160
municipalities in Alberta. Uh, three of
the big uh provincial contract uh guys

477
00:58:51,280 --> 00:58:59,520
in working with the province. Uh, we
just broke in to Saskatchewan. We're

478
00:58:57,040 --> 00:59:04,000
working over there. Um, working with the
city of Calgary helping build the

479
00:59:02,400 --> 00:59:10,720
program for [snorts] them. I've worked
with city of Edmonton. Um, it's it's

480
00:59:07,520 --> 00:59:16,480
we're all in the same boat. everybody.
Um because we drive roads every day, we

481
00:59:14,559 --> 00:59:20,640
think we know how to fix them and that's
normal. Like we drive down the road and

482
00:59:18,319 --> 00:59:24,799
there's holes in it, cut the holes out,
okay? But we don't understand if that

483
00:59:23,119 --> 00:59:28,640
hole is lower in the middle of the road.
We've just cut our road inverted. So

484
00:59:26,880 --> 00:59:35,280
there's lots of little things that go
into maintaining a road that I'm trying

485
00:59:31,920 --> 00:59:41,200
to bring to light and to build a team
environment right from the top down. And

486
00:59:39,119 --> 00:59:46,079
um I think I've had very good success
doing it. Uh the number one thing is

487
00:59:43,680 --> 00:59:51,200
building that trust. We all have to have
trust. There's so many different things

488
00:59:48,559 --> 00:59:56,559
out there today. Uh who do we trust?
Where do we lean? What do we do? What

489
00:59:52,960 --> 01:00:02,880
direction? So hopefully I know here
we've we've in my opinion we've improved

490
00:59:58,960 --> 01:00:08,436
our roads quite a bit here over the last
five years and uh we can continue to

491
01:00:05,680 --> 01:00:12,799
keep improving them. Um, but it's it's
[snorts] just highlighting what goes in

492
01:00:10,799 --> 01:00:18,480
and how hard it is for a grow road and
bringing the team environment to to

493
01:00:16,000 --> 01:00:22,960
everybody and that's that's been my main
goal since I started it is is how do we

494
01:00:21,599 --> 01:00:28,480
maintain a road? What's our service
level? There's so much that goes into

495
01:00:25,839 --> 01:00:32,319
maintaining a road that we we all look
at, but maybe there's we're missing some

496
01:00:30,480 --> 01:00:36,720
points here or there and we bring all
that together and and then uh the sky's

497
01:00:35,040 --> 01:00:39,599
is the limit.
So

498
01:00:37,280 --> 01:00:43,200
» yeah, just a little bit of history on
me. I'm not a public speaker, so I

499
01:00:41,280 --> 01:00:47,920
apologize.
>> You're you're doing just fine. Um

500
01:00:46,559 --> 01:00:54,559
is that do you have any further
information or administration, please?

501
01:00:51,359 --> 01:00:58,720
» Good morning, council. Uh so uh for this
agenda item, it will be presented in

502
01:00:56,559 --> 01:01:03,119
three parts. So first, I will begin with
a brief introduction and provide an

503
01:01:00,559 --> 01:01:07,040
overview of the use of water trucks.
Then second, I will hand the

504
01:01:04,799 --> 01:01:11,280
presentation over to our agriculture and
community service team who will discuss

505
01:01:09,280 --> 01:01:16,400
the herbicide application and shoulder
spring cost analysis. Following that,

506
01:01:14,000 --> 01:01:22,160
Mr. Ru will share his experience with
the use of W packers and oil trucks and

507
01:01:19,520 --> 01:01:28,079
to discuss any additional concerns uh
the council may have and provide his

508
01:01:24,559 --> 01:01:33,280
professional expertise in these areas.
So first of all uh the use of war trucks

509
01:01:30,720 --> 01:01:38,400
for dust control. Uh to provide some
context, Clearwater County currently

510
01:01:35,359 --> 01:01:44,240
maintains 13 greater beats with each
greater beat averaging about 145

511
01:01:41,040 --> 01:01:50,000
kilometers in length. Given the size of
our gravel road network using war trucks

512
01:01:47,440 --> 01:01:54,160
as a primary method of dust control
would involve significant operational

513
01:01:52,319 --> 01:02:02,240
cost.
So the current rate for 120 barrel war

514
01:01:57,119 --> 01:02:06,480
truck is $156 per hour. If um we assume
one war truck is assigned to each

515
01:02:04,400 --> 01:02:12,079
greater beat and operates 10 hours a
day, 20 days a month for six months of

516
01:02:09,680 --> 01:02:18,240
the year, the estimated cost will be
$187,000

517
01:02:14,240 --> 01:02:24,678
per beat each year. That's about $2.4
million for all 13 beats annually.

518
01:02:22,480 --> 01:02:28,319
Another important consideration is
[snorts] that war provides only

519
01:02:26,079 --> 01:02:32,960
short-term dust control. Depending on
the visor traffic levels and road

520
01:02:30,400 --> 01:02:39,440
conditions, the effects may only last a
few hours and in some cases up to a day.

521
01:02:36,880 --> 01:02:44,400
Meanings maintaining adequate dust
control would likely require multiple

522
01:02:41,760 --> 01:02:49,760
applications and potentially
additional air trucks resulting even in

523
01:02:47,200 --> 01:02:52,880
even higher operating cost.
County currently offers a dust

524
01:02:51,359 --> 01:02:56,640
suppression program. Through this
program, residents can purchase

525
01:02:54,559 --> 01:03:02,640
longerlasting dust control treatments in
front of their residences. Products such

526
01:02:59,280 --> 01:03:08,160
as calcium chloride or non other non-
oil based dust control. It's more

527
01:03:04,720 --> 01:03:13,119
durable dust control than were and are
available in areas where dust is a

528
01:03:10,480 --> 01:03:17,760
concern. Overwhel
can help control dust in the short term.

529
01:03:15,839 --> 01:03:22,799
The scale of the county road network,
the ongoing operational cost and the

530
01:03:20,559 --> 01:03:27,359
temporary nature of water applications
make them challenging to use as a

531
01:03:24,640 --> 01:03:31,119
primary method. So administration is
happy to answer council's question at

532
01:03:29,280 --> 01:03:39,160
this point. If not, I will hand the
presentation over to a sta for the

533
01:03:34,079 --> 01:03:39,160
harbside part. Thank you.

534
01:03:39,599 --> 01:03:47,680
Um, I think there's may be some comments
or questions before we move on to the

535
01:03:44,160 --> 01:03:51,520
herbicide section of this. I know I have
some questions and comments, but at this

536
01:03:49,119 --> 01:03:55,920
time, Deputy Ree, go ahead, please.
>> Thank you, Ree. I believe there might be

537
01:03:53,920 --> 01:04:00,640
a bit of a misunderstanding here. the
the intentional use of the water truck,

538
01:03:59,359 --> 01:04:06,079
I don't know, I can't speak for the rest
of the council, but from my perspective,

539
01:04:02,000 --> 01:04:11,359
was to assist the graders in areas that
were high washboard areas and that they

540
01:04:08,880 --> 01:04:16,640
needed that moisture to be able to grade
it properly, not as dust suppression

541
01:04:14,319 --> 01:04:21,920
continuously for all grading for the
entire year.

542
01:04:18,799 --> 01:04:26,079
So, I'm not sure that this is quite what
we were after, but uh I'll let everybody

543
01:04:25,039 --> 01:04:31,280
else chime in.
>> Oh, I absolutely have some comments, but

544
01:04:27,839 --> 01:04:34,720
before that, uh Deputy Ree, and you may
have looked at my notes.

545
01:04:32,799 --> 01:04:39,039
» Yeah, but at this point in time,
councelor Leman, go ahead and then uh

546
01:04:36,480 --> 01:04:43,520
» G with Deputy Ree there. Um because that
was the my understanding also. This was

547
01:04:41,119 --> 01:04:47,359
when we need the water trucks to assist
the graders when it's too dry or

548
01:04:45,520 --> 01:04:53,280
whatever to be there. Not not a
full-time job for 6 months, 10 hours a

549
01:04:50,319 --> 01:04:56,400
day for 20 days a month. Like, no,
that's not I don't think that was our

550
01:04:54,960 --> 01:04:59,760
intention.
>> Absolutely. So, thank you councelor

551
01:04:58,319 --> 01:05:03,359
Lewin for the comments and I've seen it
the exact same way. This was uh there

552
01:05:01,440 --> 01:05:06,319
must have been a
misunderstanding I believe at one of the

553
01:05:05,119 --> 01:05:11,200
at the previous council meeting when
this item was discussed. It was not

554
01:05:08,079 --> 01:05:17,039
intended to have water trucks for dust
control. And uh the dust, it was not

555
01:05:15,599 --> 01:05:20,960
intended for dust control. It was meant
for uh during those very dry conditions

556
01:05:19,359 --> 01:05:24,240
if there was a water truck needed or
what that would look like to get a

557
01:05:22,480 --> 01:05:28,319
better binding service of the gravel
during extremely dry conditions. And a

558
01:05:26,160 --> 01:05:33,039
gravel truck would not be or pardon me,
a water truck would not be necessary. Uh

559
01:05:30,880 --> 01:05:36,960
you know, we've just had rainfall in
many areas of Clearwater County. So when

560
01:05:34,640 --> 01:05:41,119
it's damp, there would be no need for a
water truck to have a better grading

561
01:05:38,880 --> 01:05:46,240
service. But when it's when the gravel
is extremely dry and then the grater

562
01:05:43,920 --> 01:05:53,680
goes down the road, it creates nothing
but a it is absolute dust bomb. So the

563
01:05:52,000 --> 01:05:56,799
intention, I believe, from council's
discussions in the past was to have a

564
01:05:55,280 --> 01:06:01,520
water truck to accommodate those
severely dry conditions and not have

565
01:05:58,880 --> 01:06:07,280
nothing but it appears to be flower and
a dust bomb in the fall. So

566
01:06:05,440 --> 01:06:12,400
that was the intent. I think this agenda
item has been written inappropriately.

567
01:06:09,520 --> 01:06:16,720
Um I think the numbers here um are
presented to council in a manner that

568
01:06:14,880 --> 01:06:21,680
would conclude that this would not
warrant any further uh need. But I I I

569
01:06:20,480 --> 01:06:25,599
think this was written and it needs to
be needs to come back for council's

570
01:06:23,440 --> 01:06:29,119
considering consideration written in
proper format that was discussed at the

571
01:06:27,280 --> 01:06:32,119
previous meeting.
Um,

572
01:06:32,240 --> 01:06:39,119
are there any other comments?
Mr. Magnus, go ahead, please.

573
01:06:36,240 --> 01:06:44,799
» Yeah. Um,
what it comes down to is uh um I don't

574
01:06:42,720 --> 01:06:51,119
think it was written in inappropriately.
Let's just be clear with that part of it

575
01:06:47,760 --> 01:06:56,000
is that um uh it's a matter of level of
service. We know now what the rates are

576
01:06:54,240 --> 01:07:00,079
in regards to bringing in a gravel truck
or a water truck and we have no problem

577
01:06:57,839 --> 01:07:04,400
doing that. Bringing in a water truck if
that is the intent of council and that's

578
01:07:01,760 --> 01:07:10,160
the direction you'd like in regards to
the level of service. This was just a

579
01:07:07,280 --> 01:07:15,119
large overview in regards to presenting
the rates associated with bringing a

580
01:07:12,559 --> 01:07:19,599
water truck. Now it is for council to
provide direction in regards to the

581
01:07:17,680 --> 01:07:24,960
level of service you would like to see
for the rateayers.

582
01:07:21,680 --> 01:07:29,680
and we can bring that into into the
operational side of things in regards to

583
01:07:27,599 --> 01:07:34,720
what increase that would be to the
budget

584
01:07:31,359 --> 01:07:37,839
in regards to uh greater maintenance
operations.

585
01:07:36,240 --> 01:07:42,960
Um we can definitely [clears throat]
build that in there. You just need to

586
01:07:39,839 --> 01:07:47,039
provide us direction now as to here are
the here are the costs associated with

587
01:07:44,720 --> 01:07:52,799
bringing in a water truck. the big
picture and from there you provide us

588
01:07:50,640 --> 01:07:57,280
the direction in regards to what you
would like to see if that means bringing

589
01:07:55,280 --> 01:08:03,200
in a water truck for dealing with those
areas that have the washboard and so on

590
01:08:00,160 --> 01:08:08,880
and uh Mr. Rude can expand on that in
regards to the benefits or the pros and

591
01:08:06,160 --> 01:08:14,160
cons associated with with that. But that
was our intent behind this. Gave you the

592
01:08:11,839 --> 01:08:18,000
big picture. You provide the direction
now.

593
01:08:16,319 --> 01:08:20,239
» Okay. Well, I think thank you Mr. Magnus
for that. I think there's a little bit

594
01:08:18,960 --> 01:08:24,400
more clarity that's needed on that
direction that this item is listed as

595
01:08:22,640 --> 01:08:29,759
dust control, but uh it was meant for
road maintenance and uh I believe that

596
01:08:26,480 --> 01:08:33,440
there may be some cost benefits if the
water truck offered a better binding of

597
01:08:31,759 --> 01:08:37,839
the gravel during dry conditions that
could potentially reduce the amount of

598
01:08:35,600 --> 01:08:44,480
grading needed during that time and I
don't see any cost benefits. Um go ahead

599
01:08:41,759 --> 01:08:49,920
Mr. Root please.
So, a lot of our uh dust issues comes

600
01:08:47,279 --> 01:08:54,480
from uh we're having and I have to be
careful when I say this um too much

601
01:08:52,159 --> 01:08:58,480
gravel on our roads. Our our answer
seems for everything is to put more

602
01:08:56,560 --> 01:09:03,600
gravel on our roads and not
understanding what that extra gravel

603
01:09:01,199 --> 01:09:10,080
will do. I.e. it will be a lot more
dust. Um when when we come to

604
01:09:07,600 --> 01:09:16,239
intersections, we should be reducing our
gravel um not adding gravel. And we want

605
01:09:14,159 --> 01:09:20,400
our roads exactly. We want our our
intersections packed in like their

606
01:09:17,920 --> 01:09:26,719
pavement. Um and we can never achieve
that if we gravel from from township to

607
01:09:24,400 --> 01:09:32,239
township on a range. We should be
looking now at okay reducing the gravel

608
01:09:29,520 --> 01:09:40,400
from 50 m 100 mters from each
intersection to reduce our washport and

609
01:09:36,960 --> 01:09:44,719
then tight blading um our our gravel
knowing where our gravel is going. We're

610
01:09:42,239 --> 01:09:49,120
putting our gravel on our intersections
and our hills and [clears throat] our

611
01:09:46,560 --> 01:09:54,000
curves. Anywhere where people accelerate
or you know hit the brakes really fast

612
01:09:51,600 --> 01:10:00,000
is where we should be looking to reduce
gravel. Not stop gravel, but reduce

613
01:09:57,520 --> 01:10:04,800
gravel to get ahead of the washboard.
And then once we get our intersections

614
01:10:01,920 --> 01:10:09,360
packed down like this table, leave them.
Don't come back and rip it up again

615
01:10:06,880 --> 01:10:15,199
after this rain to start more dust,
start more washboard. The goal is to get

616
01:10:11,760 --> 01:10:19,360
our roads packed in like this so we
don't have our dust issue. Um,

617
01:10:17,120 --> 01:10:25,679
unfortunately, we're a gravel road will
have dust. It's it's just the way it is.

618
01:10:22,640 --> 01:10:30,640
What stops the highways is the pavement
sitting on the gravel that stops our

619
01:10:28,000 --> 01:10:36,400
dust. It's so our goal is to get our
roads smooth, safe, packed in so we

620
01:10:33,600 --> 01:10:40,480
don't have to blade them, you know,
after this rain if they're if they're

621
01:10:38,000 --> 01:10:45,760
hard and packed in, just leave them and
then let them slowly start to unravel.

622
01:10:42,960 --> 01:10:53,120
And I I I like how you said the roads
start to unravel. Um that is one of our

623
01:10:49,199 --> 01:10:59,199
biggest concerns with any gravel road is
we have to separate our gravel from our

624
01:10:56,400 --> 01:11:03,600
base and we don't we look at a gravel
road and we see the top of the gravel

625
01:11:00,880 --> 01:11:09,199
and that's our base that's our crown.
What we're doing is cutting what the the

626
01:11:06,880 --> 01:11:14,800
base is what holds and supports the
traffic. Um we have to think of it like

627
01:11:11,920 --> 01:11:20,000
a a cake. If we have the base of our
cake is hard, then it supports the

628
01:11:17,840 --> 01:11:24,000
icing, which is the gravel, and we can
put that anywhere we want. If the base

629
01:11:22,159 --> 01:11:30,080
of the cake is soft, everything just
falls down. And that's what a lot of our

630
01:11:26,400 --> 01:11:35,840
gravel roads are doing everywhere in in
Al Alberta, Saskatchewan, everywhere is

631
01:11:32,640 --> 01:11:42,640
our base is not hard because of our
blading practices, which goes back to

632
01:11:39,600 --> 01:11:49,040
the giving the operators the best tools,
which is a carbide blade to get our base

633
01:11:46,400 --> 01:11:56,159
hard. uh soft steel blades, sandic
blades are actually ripping our base up

634
01:11:53,199 --> 01:12:01,280
which gets our our segregation which
gets our our unraveling because we don't

635
01:11:58,719 --> 01:12:06,000
have a crust on our base. So now as it
gets drier there's more gravel comes up

636
01:12:03,440 --> 01:12:12,000
which creates more dust.
So having the proper tools to give our

637
01:12:09,360 --> 01:12:17,760
our operators is critical and that
number one tool is a carbide blade. And

638
01:12:15,120 --> 01:12:24,159
yes, they've went through the roof. Um
they're they're ridiculously priced, but

639
01:12:21,600 --> 01:12:29,360
what are we gaining from using the
proper tool? And that's we're getting a

640
01:12:26,719 --> 01:12:34,480
crown cut into our road. We're we're tip
blading our gravel to minimize our dust.

641
01:12:31,920 --> 01:12:38,960
We're we're eliminating our curbing on
our shoulders, which is another big

642
01:12:36,400 --> 01:12:45,840
thing. Water trapment on the sides of
our roads. Um, all that comes from

643
01:12:43,520 --> 01:12:49,840
training our guys, training us to to
know what we're looking at on our roads,

644
01:12:47,760 --> 01:12:55,520
too. And that goes back to the team
environment. Um, then number one is the

645
01:12:52,400 --> 01:13:01,199
carbide blades. And then, but by using
our carbide blades, the fuel savings is

646
01:12:58,560 --> 01:13:06,320
is astronomical. Uh, the gravel
consumption is astronomical. Um, you you

647
01:13:04,320 --> 01:13:11,760
think of a road
and we've we've graveled it every 3

648
01:13:09,120 --> 01:13:16,480
years. Where does that gravel go? Some
of it goes in the ditch obviously, but

649
01:13:13,840 --> 01:13:22,400
not near as much as we think. But where
where does the the rest of it go? It

650
01:13:19,040 --> 01:13:28,080
goes down because our base is soft.
Traffic, the heavier the traffic, the

651
01:13:25,440 --> 01:13:32,320
farther that goes down and then it goes
out. And then that's where we get our

652
01:13:29,920 --> 01:13:36,960
football shape on our shoulders. And
then we blade it. We put the lip in the

653
01:13:34,159 --> 01:13:41,840
road trying to get a crown in our road.
So by getting our base hard that

654
01:13:40,000 --> 01:13:47,280
supports that's the key to any gravel
road is that base getting that that

655
01:13:44,640 --> 01:13:51,040
support hard so the B drains and
everybody can drive up and down the

656
01:13:48,800 --> 01:13:56,159
roads and then tight blading controlling
where we put our gravel to minimize our

657
01:13:54,239 --> 01:14:01,840
dust.
Okay. Yeah, I think we will always have

658
01:13:58,880 --> 01:14:08,159
dust. It's trying how do we as a group
collectively manage that? How do we slow

659
01:14:05,520 --> 01:14:13,280
it down? Um, it's like washboard. I
think we'll always have washboard, but

660
01:14:10,480 --> 01:14:16,880
we need to minimize it as best we can.
>> If I may just, uh, I think everybody at

661
01:14:15,760 --> 01:14:19,280
the table and everybody in this room
recognizes that a gravel road will have

662
01:14:18,640 --> 01:14:21,199
dust.
>> Yeah.

663
01:14:19,520 --> 01:14:23,840
» And the intention was never to say that
we're going to make our gravel roads

664
01:14:23,040 --> 01:14:28,400
dustfree.
>> Yeah. The intention was to bring this

665
01:14:26,560 --> 01:14:33,360
information to administration on behalf
of council to mitigate

666
01:14:30,640 --> 01:14:38,640
» the dust because there's been extremely
dry circumstances in the fall when

667
01:14:36,080 --> 01:14:43,679
there's a lot of graders that are
grading the gravel roads that the roads

668
01:14:41,600 --> 01:14:50,239
may have been dusty but when they're
graded during extremely dry conditions

669
01:14:46,000 --> 01:14:54,800
they're significantly more dusty. So I
don't think anybody in this room has

670
01:14:52,800 --> 01:15:01,520
asked administration or anybody to make
a gravel road dustfree. So if we could

671
01:14:58,480 --> 01:15:04,239
just have that correction. Um I think in
the motion I do have some other fellow

672
01:15:03,040 --> 01:15:08,960
council members that would like to speak
but I think there may have been an error

673
01:15:05,840 --> 01:15:12,159
in the information that was brought to
councelor.

674
01:15:10,800 --> 01:15:17,040
There was discussions about wobbly
packers. There's nothing mentioned in

675
01:15:14,640 --> 01:15:22,960
this agenda item and even to refer back
to the motion that was given at the

676
01:15:20,159 --> 01:15:27,760
council meeting on July 28th. There was
um the council direct administration to

677
01:15:25,520 --> 01:15:32,080
bring back information
budget and cost comparison

678
01:15:30,320 --> 01:15:36,400
considerations
regarding agenda item 7.3.1 which is the

679
01:15:34,880 --> 01:15:41,679
gravel road network maintenance
operations program review. But yet we're

680
01:15:38,960 --> 01:15:45,199
on a dust control or dust suppression
discussion here today. So I think

681
01:15:44,000 --> 01:15:49,320
there's been a lack of information
brought forward on this agenda item.

682
01:15:52,400 --> 01:16:00,640
Councelor Humphrey please go or sorry
councelor Lewin.

683
01:15:57,040 --> 01:16:05,040
» Yes. So with a crown in a road when it
rains does it add to the um potholes or

684
01:16:03,440 --> 01:16:10,080
does it reduce the potholes?
>> So that that's a good question. So

685
01:16:07,360 --> 01:16:16,000
depending on what
what our base is. So why we get potholes

686
01:16:14,080 --> 01:16:21,120
is because we've dumped a lot of gravel
in the middle to get a crown. And we

687
01:16:18,640 --> 01:16:26,239
call that a fake crown. So we we've cut
our base flat or maybe even inverted. So

688
01:16:24,480 --> 01:16:30,159
we need to put the gravel back in the
middle of the road to get a crown in the

689
01:16:28,320 --> 01:16:35,360
road. Now that's all that loose
material. When it does rain, it's loose.

690
01:16:33,199 --> 01:16:42,960
So now the traffic will start making
potholes. When we get our base cut in to

691
01:16:38,960 --> 01:16:46,719
the our base hard, it the water will
shed

692
01:16:44,480 --> 01:16:51,199
um off that base and then run to our
shoulders, run into our ditch and drain.

693
01:16:48,880 --> 01:16:52,960
Hope that's our goal of a gravel road.
>> Yeah.

694
01:16:51,520 --> 01:16:56,320
» But when the gravel's dry, that's when
we need uh a water truck to help bind

695
01:16:55,360 --> 01:17:02,080
it.
>> So what the grading and water trucks to

696
01:16:58,960 --> 01:17:08,000
help bind it and then go from there. And
the the carbide blade when it's dry,

697
01:17:05,280 --> 01:17:12,239
we're we're so used to the gravel
unraveling. I like how you worded that

698
01:17:09,760 --> 01:17:16,880
because it is the when our base is soft,
it it unravels and the drier it gets,

699
01:17:14,239 --> 01:17:23,280
the more gravel that comes from our
roads. The more times we blade. What

700
01:17:19,760 --> 01:17:28,800
what the carbide blade does when it's
used properly is it's driving our rocks

701
01:17:26,000 --> 01:17:33,280
and our fines into that base. That's
what's making our base thicker and

702
01:17:30,960 --> 01:17:37,920
thicker and thicker. Basically, our our
base is a crust. We all know these all

703
01:17:36,000 --> 01:17:45,360
all these roads are built on black dirt
and whatever was there, right? It's it's

704
01:17:42,080 --> 01:17:51,120
uh it's the the base. We need to seal
that off by by using our gravel to drive

705
01:17:48,800 --> 01:17:55,440
into the base. And then as the gravel
goes into the base, our our gravel goes

706
01:17:53,280 --> 01:17:59,600
down on our roads. That's when we
regravel again to start building that

707
01:17:57,760 --> 01:18:02,600
ground that base back up thicker and
thicker.

708
01:18:02,880 --> 01:18:11,840
» Thank you,
>> Deputy Reck. Go ahead.

709
01:18:06,800 --> 01:18:16,800
» Thanks. Thank you, Mr. Rude. This is uh
I guess it it's a little tough because

710
01:18:14,080 --> 01:18:20,239
the these are things that I've been
trying to push towards the county for 10

711
01:18:18,400 --> 01:18:26,400
years. And these are things that this
council has been really trying to drive

712
01:18:22,960 --> 01:18:30,159
home to administration is overgraing and
overg grading is hurting our roads, not

713
01:18:29,040 --> 01:18:35,840
helping them. You're sitting here
confirming that fact. We're clearly not

714
01:18:33,360 --> 01:18:39,920
taking those steps. So why are we not
taking those steps that our resident

715
01:18:37,920 --> 01:18:43,840
expert is telling us that we need to be
taking?

716
01:18:41,440 --> 01:18:48,719
Why are we continuing to build false
crowns to overravel and to overgrade?

717
01:18:47,199 --> 01:18:52,560
And this isn't a question for you, Mr.
Rude. This is for administration. I

718
01:18:50,239 --> 01:18:58,719
mean, you provided the information,
>> you provided the expertise,

719
01:18:54,719 --> 01:19:04,239
» but yet we see it time and time again.
So what why aren't why aren't we

720
01:19:01,440 --> 01:19:10,080
listening to the expert? We are we're
doing exactly what Dawn he's been with

721
01:19:07,280 --> 01:19:14,400
us for the last five years. So I'm not
sure where council is getting this

722
01:19:11,600 --> 01:19:19,440
perspective from. I'm sure that you
this is this is we've had Don with us

723
01:19:17,199 --> 01:19:24,000
for the last 5 years and we are
following

724
01:19:20,960 --> 01:19:28,560
his guidance in regards to and Don can
speak to it. He's been with us for the

725
01:19:25,920 --> 01:19:32,400
last 5 years.
>> Okay. I I just I don't feel like

726
01:19:30,880 --> 01:19:37,840
administration has actually driven the
roads that we're speaking to.

727
01:19:35,520 --> 01:19:42,159
» Mr. RH, do you have comments? Please.
>> The one thing that we need to keep in

728
01:19:40,159 --> 01:19:50,159
perspective too is is we're a little
different here with contract operators.

729
01:19:45,920 --> 01:19:55,600
Um so we have to keep that in mind too.
If if we don't if we don't blade, what

730
01:19:52,800 --> 01:20:01,840
do they do?
Right. me as a contractor too in Red

731
01:19:58,400 --> 01:20:08,080
Deer um we have to be cautious of them
making a living them trying to survive

732
01:20:03,920 --> 01:20:12,719
too. So if if we cut back or shut them
down because the roads are in good shape

733
01:20:10,800 --> 01:20:17,040
we're going backwards, right? Like it's
not like an employee where there's other

734
01:20:14,640 --> 01:20:23,760
things for them to do. The contractors
are hired to blade roads. Um, so maybe

735
01:20:20,640 --> 01:20:29,760
we need to start looking outside the
roads and we have a we have a dirt crew

736
01:20:26,480 --> 01:20:34,719
here, which is good. Um, and the second
thing that we need to do now,

737
01:20:32,719 --> 01:20:40,320
number one is getting the water from the
middle of the road to our shoulders and

738
01:20:37,360 --> 01:20:45,199
then from the shoulders to our ditch.
and that that that's everywhere by

739
01:20:43,280 --> 01:20:50,719
recognizing is there too much gravel,
there's is there um ridging on the roads

740
01:20:48,320 --> 01:20:56,960
or is the road inverted and then getting
it to the shoulder and then addressing

741
01:20:53,120 --> 01:21:03,120
that lip that's holding the water in by
giving um letting the guys go with the

742
01:20:59,760 --> 01:21:08,719
front mounted disc and then we we can
minimize that curbing along utilizing

743
01:21:06,640 --> 01:21:13,120
the road crew here. you guys are in a in
a pretty good position, I think, because

744
01:21:10,719 --> 01:21:16,640
you do have a a little bit of a road
crew. A lot of municipalities don't

745
01:21:14,640 --> 01:21:22,400
anymore, so it makes it a bigger
struggle, but here utilizing the road

746
01:21:19,040 --> 01:21:29,520
crew with the contractors to to help
minimize um our curbing issues is a very

747
01:21:26,000 --> 01:21:33,920
good idea. Um there's different avenues
we can be using them, not just on a

748
01:21:31,679 --> 01:21:37,520
road. We could be doing different things
with different different pieces of

749
01:21:35,920 --> 01:21:41,679
equipment.
Thank you. And just to quickly follow

750
01:21:39,280 --> 01:21:45,840
up, so the reason that we've continued
to overgrade and to damage our road

751
01:21:43,920 --> 01:21:49,679
infrastructure is to keep operators
busy.

752
01:21:47,040 --> 01:21:55,840
» No, but what is overgrading?
>> What we've been doing? Clearly, every

753
01:21:52,880 --> 01:22:01,440
time we get our road set with that
crust, just as you spoke to, the graders

754
01:21:58,960 --> 01:22:07,520
come out.
There's no reason for it at all. None

755
01:22:04,480 --> 01:22:12,480
whatsoever. But it continues to happen
over and over and over again. And we get

756
01:22:09,440 --> 01:22:16,960
that false dust crown in the middle that
just turns everything to slimy

757
01:22:14,639 --> 01:22:22,480
Well, pardon my language to a slimy
mess. And it just So there's there's

758
01:22:20,560 --> 01:22:28,800
another question we go.
>> Go ahead, Mr. Please.

759
01:22:24,159 --> 01:22:33,440
» Um, you said a key word to slimy. So now
why why are the roads slimy,

760
01:22:31,120 --> 01:22:39,520
» right? Is it is our our gravel?
>> Yes. Or is it because we're pulling in

761
01:22:36,560 --> 01:22:45,840
grass? We've been for the last 80 years,
we pull shoulders in and that pulls our

762
01:22:43,120 --> 01:22:51,280
clay in. That pulls uh every all the
garbage that's on our shoulders in and

763
01:22:48,480 --> 01:22:55,840
it's fine when it's dry, but then it
comes to being when it's wet, we see all

764
01:22:53,600 --> 01:23:00,560
these greasy spots. So, is it actual
gravel? Is it is it the clay? Is it What

765
01:22:58,320 --> 01:23:06,080
is it on our roads that are making our
roads greasy? That's that's another

766
01:23:02,880 --> 01:23:11,440
thing to look at too. Um because we've
been told to keep that blade out there

767
01:23:08,320 --> 01:23:16,400
and and minimize our curbing issues. Um
the provincial government is is that's a

768
01:23:14,480 --> 01:23:20,480
big thing with them is is it's way out
and then the farther south you go, the

769
01:23:18,080 --> 01:23:25,120
more clay there is in our roads. It's a
bigger issue down there now, too. So,

770
01:23:22,560 --> 01:23:30,480
it's it's knowing where our road is and
then stop going out to grab all that

771
01:23:28,400 --> 01:23:35,840
stuff. And then yeah cuz we don't know
if it's a gravel is it the cuz the

772
01:23:32,880 --> 01:23:40,560
gravel meets spec right and it does but
yeah so there's different things to to

773
01:23:38,560 --> 01:23:43,600
know.
>> Do you have further comments deputy

774
01:23:41,920 --> 01:23:47,199
reeve or not at this time
>> and this is another discussion that

775
01:23:45,280 --> 01:23:53,600
we've had with administration. Yes our
gravel meets spec but it is certainly

776
01:23:49,360 --> 01:23:57,679
not the gravel that it once was and
administration has admitted that on

777
01:23:55,120 --> 01:24:02,639
numerous occasions. our gravel quality
has degraded. So yes, I agree it

778
01:24:00,239 --> 01:24:06,000
probably is bringing in the edges that's
causing part of the problem, but our

779
01:24:04,320 --> 01:24:11,199
gravel is also causing part of the
problem. And by adding more of what is

780
01:24:09,360 --> 01:24:14,520
the problem to our roads is not going to
solve anything.

781
01:24:15,040 --> 01:24:21,120
» Okay. So there's a few things I see at
play here. the community uh clear

782
01:24:19,280 --> 01:24:26,639
council had received uh many phone calls
from many residents regarding the the uh

783
01:24:24,480 --> 01:24:30,080
poor quality of the roads while we had a
significant amount of rain in June. But

784
01:24:28,800 --> 01:24:33,840
so what we're trying to accomplish here
is just a few things is we'd like to

785
01:24:31,760 --> 01:24:38,159
bring forward that the community would
like to see quality roads. We'd also

786
01:24:36,400 --> 01:24:43,440
like to address some of the unnecessary
dust from overgrading and we'd also this

787
01:24:40,960 --> 01:24:47,760
council still supports local contractors
as many of the contractors in the area

788
01:24:45,280 --> 01:24:51,440
are still residents. So, this council
does support our local contractors, but

789
01:24:49,840 --> 01:24:54,800
we're trying to meet in the middle here
to bring this item to have the best

790
01:24:53,440 --> 01:24:58,400
result for the residents of the county,
which is quality roads, maybe reduce

791
01:24:56,800 --> 01:25:03,360
some of the unnecessary dust while still
supporting our local contractors.

792
01:25:01,360 --> 01:25:06,400
There is more. I think this item has to
be deferred back to administration to

793
01:25:04,800 --> 01:25:11,800
bring additional information back in a
further at a future council meeting.

794
01:25:12,000 --> 01:25:16,400
» Mr. Magnus, you'd like to speak. Please
go ahead.

795
01:25:14,080 --> 01:25:20,719
» Yep. you indicated, you know, in regards
to a discussion on wobblies and I did

796
01:25:19,120 --> 01:25:26,320
mention it in the last paragraph there
that Mr. Rude is uh here to address

797
01:25:23,440 --> 01:25:32,719
that. Uh so you had to indicate it that
there was nothing in here. This is where

798
01:25:29,199 --> 01:25:39,040
we why we brought in Mr. RDE to address
um the question associated with

799
01:25:35,360 --> 01:25:45,520
Wobblies. He's here today to address
those concerns and questions

800
01:25:41,760 --> 01:25:52,239
as per that previous council meeting and
as per that motion. So, uh, if we could

801
01:25:49,360 --> 01:25:57,199
allow Mr. RDE to address Wobblies, the
use of wobblies as well as supplement,

802
01:25:55,040 --> 01:26:00,719
uh, Betina's presentation and the use of
herbicides.

803
01:25:58,800 --> 01:26:05,840
This will address your questions from
that previous council.

804
01:26:03,120 --> 01:26:13,040
when we went through that we in terms of
breaking down the concerns the in the

805
01:26:09,840 --> 01:26:20,159
motion was a general motion. So I had my
team go in back into that that uh agenda

806
01:26:17,280 --> 01:26:25,520
item in regards to what council wanted
addressed and that's what we're here for

807
01:26:22,639 --> 01:26:32,080
today is to address those concerns and
questions. So if we may

808
01:26:29,760 --> 01:26:37,280
Mr. Rude can address the use of wobblies
along with the use of herbicides and

809
01:26:33,920 --> 01:26:44,360
anything else that may still be on your
minds that you would like to have

810
01:26:39,280 --> 01:26:44,360
addressed if we may please.

811
01:26:47,360 --> 01:26:55,199
» Councelor Humphrey, go ahead.
[cough and clears throat]

812
01:26:51,600 --> 01:27:01,840
» And this question for uh Mr. Rude. So,
you've been 5 years at it. Do we have a

813
01:26:59,280 --> 01:27:06,400
a projected
time limit to get the roads to where

814
01:27:04,000 --> 01:27:09,679
they need to be?
>> That's a good question. So, um,

815
01:27:08,925 --> 01:27:14,080
[clears throat]
every road is not created equal, and

816
01:27:12,239 --> 01:27:18,320
that's where some roads will come come
around faster than others depending on

817
01:27:16,239 --> 01:27:24,480
what's in the base and what it's sitting
on. And you can't I I don't know how to

818
01:27:22,000 --> 01:27:32,320
put a timeline on every road being
perfect. I I don't know there is one,

819
01:27:28,400 --> 01:27:37,600
but I know uh I know with certainty that
the roads here are way better than what

820
01:27:34,400 --> 01:27:42,080
they were 5 years ago. I know that. It's
just now it's it's bringing the team

821
01:27:39,679 --> 01:27:47,280
environment together and and adding and
building on that as much as we can to

822
01:27:45,040 --> 01:27:53,280
get over that hump to get to where we
need. The biggest thing is is uh if like

823
01:27:50,719 --> 01:27:57,679
a spring like this, it affects everybody
because we've had eight years of drought

824
01:27:55,360 --> 01:28:03,920
or whatever and now everybody is it's
the shock of driving on mud and roads

825
01:28:00,719 --> 01:28:09,199
and wet roads that people, you know,
forget how to how to drive on them

826
01:28:06,000 --> 01:28:13,520
roads. and and by having the water sit
on our shoulders that that softens and

827
01:28:11,520 --> 01:28:19,280
brings the mud up in the clay and and
loosens our base up way faster because

828
01:28:16,000 --> 01:28:23,920
of the water sitting there. So, we've I
think we've been addressing the curbing

829
01:28:21,040 --> 01:28:29,600
problem. Um, can we do better? For sure.
We're always working to get better. Um,

830
01:28:26,639 --> 01:28:37,040
but it's now addressing that part of our
road system is is just as critical as as

831
01:28:34,480 --> 01:28:43,440
getting our base up. Um the biggest
thing I it's

832
01:28:39,360 --> 01:28:48,320
we we we need to understand it on the
blade placement on on running the grater

833
01:28:45,679 --> 01:28:53,760
on the road. If our blade placement is
off just a hair, the base of our road is

834
01:28:51,280 --> 01:28:57,920
not going to get as hard as we think. So
we're driving the road thinking it's

835
01:28:55,520 --> 01:29:04,239
going to get be harder and harder. And
if if if our blade placement is off just

836
01:29:00,080 --> 01:29:10,101
a bit, we're not gaining on that road.
So, it's so critical that we understand

837
01:29:07,360 --> 01:29:15,520
how how hard it is to maintain that one
[snorts] sweet spot on our blade with

838
01:29:12,560 --> 01:29:19,920
our carbide blades. And then if we throw
Sanvix on or anything else to to blade

839
01:29:18,000 --> 01:29:26,320
our roads, we're actually going
backwards on our base. And that's where

840
01:29:22,880 --> 01:29:33,199
the packers come in is we think, okay,
we'll put the packers on and we're going

841
01:29:28,880 --> 01:29:39,360
to pack our road. a round tire
uh does not pack gravel road. If if that

842
01:29:36,320 --> 01:29:43,920
packer would is doing what we think it
would do, the lugs on that grater tire

843
01:29:42,400 --> 01:29:48,639
would pack 10 times harder because
there's more weight on the grater. So,

844
01:29:46,000 --> 01:29:53,120
we're not doing anything with the packer
on the back of our grers. We're It makes

845
01:29:51,280 --> 01:29:57,000
it look nice for one pass, [snorts] but
it does not do anything.

846
01:29:57,360 --> 01:30:01,040
» Sorry.
>> May I have a difference of opinion?

847
01:29:59,840 --> 01:30:03,840
Okay, please.
>> And you know, uh, actually myself, I've

848
01:30:02,800 --> 01:30:07,040
ran a grater.
>> Okay.

849
01:30:04,320 --> 01:30:10,639
» And, uh, so I think there's a little bit
of confusion here again, Mr. Magnus,

850
01:30:09,120 --> 01:30:16,000
there was I think there was some
discussion about the conjunction of a

851
01:30:13,120 --> 01:30:19,520
water truck in conjunction with Wobbly
Packers. You're you're right. When you

852
01:30:18,320 --> 01:30:24,719
have flower, when you have really
extremely dry conditions in the fall and

853
01:30:22,159 --> 01:30:29,199
the gravel's been graded, when you you
you grade that, it's it's like a flower.

854
01:30:26,960 --> 01:30:33,280
It's very it's very it just finds
>> and it creates a dust bomb

855
01:30:31,040 --> 01:30:37,920
» like it's very dusty. There are seniors
that have uh respiratory

856
01:30:36,400 --> 01:30:40,080
» you know there's children that have
asthma

857
01:30:38,880 --> 01:30:46,080
» so [clears throat] council gets to hear
about those

858
01:30:41,040 --> 01:30:49,080
» dust issues. So I [clears throat] this
uh

859
01:30:50,400 --> 01:30:56,719
we're going to get to the wobbly
packers, but uh I don't see any costs

860
01:30:53,840 --> 01:31:01,280
regarding wobbly packers. Just a verbal
presentation. There was no

861
01:30:59,679 --> 01:31:05,199
but there's no costs in here related to
the conjunction of wobbly packers water

862
01:31:03,440 --> 01:31:09,199
trucks.
We're going to proceed with this, but I

863
01:31:06,639 --> 01:31:15,520
think we uh we're going to move on to
the vegetation section here soon. Um,

864
01:31:13,040 --> 01:31:21,600
councelor, do you have any comments?
>> I I did want to uh say like I wasn't

865
01:31:20,080 --> 01:31:27,280
aware
that we had this program to fix our

866
01:31:24,400 --> 01:31:31,520
roads and I totally understand that we
won't be able to fix our roads

867
01:31:28,480 --> 01:31:34,480
overnight. Um,
that's [clears throat] and that's all I

868
01:31:32,639 --> 01:31:41,440
was asking. I wasn't looking for a we'll
have them all done, but if if we figure

869
01:31:38,639 --> 01:31:46,080
to have them straighten out in the next
5 10 years,

870
01:31:44,080 --> 01:31:51,280
uh,
a lot of this makes sense with the

871
01:31:49,199 --> 01:31:56,320
cutting back on the gravel at at the
intersections and where where they're

872
01:31:53,440 --> 01:32:03,280
taken off to get rid of that washboard
because I've seen it uh in instances

873
01:31:59,920 --> 01:32:08,320
where it where it has been cut back. Um,
and it's made some differences that I've

874
01:32:05,360 --> 01:32:14,480
seen just on on the few gravel roads
that I travel. Um,

875
01:32:11,280 --> 01:32:22,000
I just always try and avoid them, but I
live on one, so I under I understand the

876
01:32:18,159 --> 01:32:26,239
the dust issue and and the issues with
roads. What I didn't understand was how

877
01:32:24,320 --> 01:32:34,639
we were working to try and mitigate
that. So, I I appreciate the

878
01:32:30,000 --> 01:32:40,639
explanations on that. Um, I guess I was
just looking for more of a general, you

879
01:32:38,639 --> 01:32:45,520
know, are we looking to have them
shaping up more

880
01:32:43,520 --> 01:32:51,120
in the next
5 years? Like this is this won't be done

881
01:32:48,560 --> 01:32:55,520
and ready. It won't be fixed next year,
I guess, is what I'm what I'm getting. I

882
01:32:53,440 --> 01:33:00,320
can't imagine it would be. Some roads,
yes, some roads are better, for sure.

883
01:32:57,760 --> 01:33:03,360
Uh, some roads, the the thing is, you
know, we've been beating our roads up

884
01:33:01,920 --> 01:33:08,800
for since they've been [clears throat]
built. And we've been

885
01:33:06,960 --> 01:33:13,520
» um not I don't want to say blading them
the wrong way, but we we can tweak what

886
01:33:11,440 --> 01:33:19,760
we've been doing for the last 80 years.
And that's what I'm trying to do. So to

887
01:33:17,920 --> 01:33:24,639
every time we blade them, they should be
getting a little bit harder and and and

888
01:33:22,719 --> 01:33:29,600
harder and harder and harder. By using
the carbide blades rolled back the

889
01:33:27,280 --> 01:33:34,400
proper way, it drives the rock in. Even
when it's bone dry out, it's still

890
01:33:32,080 --> 01:33:39,840
driving [snorts] our rock into our base
with our fines to make that base harder

891
01:33:37,520 --> 01:33:44,239
and thicker and thicker. And have we
gone to

892
01:33:41,679 --> 01:33:47,040
uh 100% carbide blades then throughout
the county? Contractors, everybody's

893
01:33:46,239 --> 01:33:48,639
doing that.
>> Yep.

894
01:33:47,840 --> 01:33:53,920
» Okay.
>> And now it's up to the contractors and

895
01:33:51,199 --> 01:34:00,800
us as a team to because of the cost of
them um to use them but still know when

896
01:33:58,320 --> 01:34:06,480
to protect them to get the longevity out
of the blade so it's not so cost

897
01:34:02,719 --> 01:34:11,760
effective per blade per mile. And that's
where the operators there's we hit the

898
01:34:09,600 --> 01:34:15,520
clutch and we know how hard we're we're
uh we're using them on the roads. And

899
01:34:14,000 --> 01:34:20,000
then you use them a little bit more when
there's some washboard on the hills to

900
01:34:17,760 --> 01:34:24,719
try and get them the base as smooth as
you can. And then don't put the gravel

901
01:34:21,760 --> 01:34:31,120
back as thick on the hills to start the
washboard again in the next 20 minutes.

902
01:34:28,080 --> 01:34:36,159
» And and don't pull it in off the edges
>> to create that

903
01:34:32,719 --> 01:34:43,840
» soft spot and which will make your
washboard back come back. Um

904
01:34:40,080 --> 01:34:47,920
yeah. So I guess then further to my
while I still got the mic um

905
01:34:46,159 --> 01:34:51,920
administration,
what is the what is the plan if we've

906
01:34:51,120 --> 01:34:56,000
got graders, [snorts]
contract graders, and and we're working

907
01:34:54,400 --> 01:35:00,880
and we don't want them grading the road
if it doesn't need it. How what are we

908
01:34:59,040 --> 01:35:06,400
because that's just adding to our
problem if we're grading at the wrong

909
01:35:02,400 --> 01:35:12,000
times. if it's too dry or if the road
spots of it are good, how are we

910
01:35:09,840 --> 01:35:14,940
addressing that? What's our plan going
forward?

911
01:35:12,639 --> 01:35:19,120
» So, what what we've been doing at the
[clears throat] instructions to all the

912
01:35:16,400 --> 01:35:23,600
operators now is is to travel if they
say there's two miles of road they want

913
01:35:20,800 --> 01:35:28,639
to pick on, they need to drive that road
first to see if it needs

914
01:35:26,239 --> 01:35:32,560
needs to be bladed and if it doesn't to
not. So, they're they're spot grading.

915
01:35:30,719 --> 01:35:36,080
That's instructions now is to be spot
grading.

916
01:35:34,080 --> 01:35:40,639
» That's that's good to note too cuz then
we also have to make note that so that

917
01:35:38,880 --> 01:35:46,320
the public understands if you see the
graater driving down the road and he

918
01:35:42,800 --> 01:35:50,639
doesn't have his blade down. That's a
good thing cuz lots of times it's like,

919
01:35:48,400 --> 01:35:55,199
"Oh, I seen a grater and he wasn't
grading the road, but he was driving

920
01:35:51,920 --> 01:35:59,440
down road and I've heard it uh before
from people like the grater's just

921
01:35:57,600 --> 01:36:06,000
aimlessly driving down the road and his
and his blades up." So, uh so there's a

922
01:36:02,880 --> 01:36:08,480
reason that this is happening.
>> Yeah.

923
01:36:06,639 --> 01:36:12,639
» Just good to make note,
>> right? We are graveling doing graveling

924
01:36:10,719 --> 01:36:18,800
right now where the graders have wanted
gravel and so they will prep a road

925
01:36:16,080 --> 01:36:23,199
before we grade it again using two miles
for a example and they'll blade up two

926
01:36:21,679 --> 01:36:27,840
miles of road and then we'll gravel it
and then they've got to

927
01:36:25,440 --> 01:36:32,159
uh blade that up again. So there's going
to be that going on right now because we

928
01:36:29,920 --> 01:36:32,960
can't just gravel and then just leave
it. But

929
01:36:32,886 --> 01:36:36,000
» [clears throat]
>> uh

930
01:36:34,400 --> 01:36:39,600
» yeah, that that's the instructions for
them guys now.

931
01:36:37,280 --> 01:36:42,639
» Okay. Well, that's all good information.
Thanks,

932
01:36:40,719 --> 01:36:46,560
» Mr. Rude. Do you have a comment?
>> Um, I did.

933
01:36:44,880 --> 01:36:49,600
» That's great. If you need a second
chance to for ask them if they want to

934
01:36:48,960 --> 01:36:56,159
do a
>> Well, that's what I Yes, thank you. Um,

935
01:36:52,239 --> 01:37:03,360
I would I would love to do a information
session out on a road with with

936
01:36:59,040 --> 01:37:08,800
everybody. Um, to see it is to sit here
and talk about it is very hard. But for

937
01:37:06,880 --> 01:37:13,440
us to come together and go out on a road
and then show the system what we're

938
01:37:11,679 --> 01:37:18,480
doing, how we're how we're mitigating
this, how why this takes longer, what um

939
01:37:16,639 --> 01:37:23,199
I've done that in other counties and
it's very very

940
01:37:20,719 --> 01:37:27,280
uh beneficial to everybody to just kind
of know what the graders are up against

941
01:37:24,960 --> 01:37:32,639
and and how why the road is taking
longer, why this is going on. Um, I

942
01:37:30,159 --> 01:37:37,679
would be more than happy to dedicate a
half a day or whatever you guys would

943
01:37:34,560 --> 01:37:43,840
like to. We would just grab a grater, go
out to a grater and and and then just do

944
01:37:40,800 --> 01:37:49,520
a a session on the road so you can see
the four the five pass system. Um, and

945
01:37:46,400 --> 01:37:54,880
it would make things a lot clearer um
for everybody to to see that. I would

946
01:37:52,159 --> 01:37:59,199
love to do that with you guys for sure.
>> Okay. Thank you for that offer. Um,

947
01:37:57,760 --> 01:38:03,040
councelor Lewin.
>> Yes, that sounds excellent. Um, I have

948
01:38:01,280 --> 01:38:05,952
the perfect road for you to demonstrate
on. [laughter]

949
01:38:06,080 --> 01:38:12,480
» Goes down off the railroad tracks
through the Musk Egg and up the hill.

950
01:38:10,960 --> 01:38:16,960
And then there's a T intersection where
lots of times the greater operators be

951
01:38:14,080 --> 01:38:21,520
playing on their cell phone.
I'm not making that up.

952
01:38:19,440 --> 01:38:24,400
» So, I don't know who's running the boat,
but some days it's not running very

953
01:38:23,119 --> 01:38:26,960
fast.
>> Thank you.

954
01:38:25,119 --> 01:38:30,560
» Thank you. But I do have that road. No,
I'm serious. And I'd like to see a

955
01:38:28,800 --> 01:38:35,920
demonstration by creators
>> on that road. Absolutely.

956
01:38:33,440 --> 01:38:41,360
» Thank you, council. That one.
>> I just I there's so many little things

957
01:38:38,159 --> 01:38:47,199
that go into that. And that's where I
would like to show you guys how how hard

958
01:38:45,119 --> 01:38:51,760
it is because even going down a hill,
when when our front tires of our grater

959
01:38:49,440 --> 01:38:55,679
come up the hill, it lifts our blade up.
And why is there always washboard right

960
01:38:53,679 --> 01:39:00,080
at the base of every hill, right? And
then as we come over the hill, the front

961
01:38:57,360 --> 01:39:05,679
tires drop down and then we carry our
gravel off. Why is the hills bald?

962
01:39:04,080 --> 01:39:12,239
» Right? There's so many things. That's
where I'm I'm the art of blading a road.

963
01:39:10,159 --> 01:39:17,840
We think just put the blade down and go.
There's so many things that go into it

964
01:39:14,560 --> 01:39:23,920
to make what we all want is a hard
smooth road. It's it's an arc blading a

965
01:39:21,679 --> 01:39:29,920
road and um I would love to have you
guys out just to see it for sure.

966
01:39:26,719 --> 01:39:33,840
» Okay. Um Councilman McCauley,
>> I just want to say Mr. Thank you for

967
01:39:31,920 --> 01:39:37,199
everything you've explained. I I'm not a
road guy, but I definitely understand

968
01:39:35,600 --> 01:39:43,520
the maintenance of it a lot better and I
definitely would look forward to a demo.

969
01:39:40,960 --> 01:39:46,639
» Thank you, Councilman Holly. Deputy Ree,
go ahead.

970
01:39:44,400 --> 01:39:51,040
» Thanks, Ree.
Yeah, I'll uh second that sentiment.

971
01:39:48,960 --> 01:39:55,440
Thank you, Mr. Rude. Your expertise is
much appreciated. I just do have one

972
01:39:54,000 --> 01:40:00,639
quick question just regarding something
that Mr. Lesley said. You said that when

973
01:39:58,560 --> 01:40:06,639
graders request to go out and grade that
you you want them to go drive that road.

974
01:40:04,239 --> 01:40:11,920
But would it not be typical for a
greater operator to be directed when to

975
01:40:08,719 --> 01:40:16,960
grade? Like they should not nor should
they ever be grading at their request.

976
01:40:14,080 --> 01:40:22,880
We have a business that's being run that
is paid by the hour and we are allowing

977
01:40:20,320 --> 01:40:27,679
them to determine when and when they do
not operate.

978
01:40:24,719 --> 01:40:32,880
I think that that's a critical thing
that needs to be changed.

979
01:40:29,920 --> 01:40:38,320
» Yeah, I I I think maybe there's a
misunderstanding there. So, when they

980
01:40:35,280 --> 01:40:42,320
are out grading,
um, of course there's always going to be

981
01:40:40,480 --> 01:40:48,880
something needs to be done on their beat
any given day, but I don't want them to

982
01:40:45,920 --> 01:40:53,679
just start on a piece of road and start
blading it without knowing what that

983
01:40:51,520 --> 01:40:59,440
piece of road looks like. So, if they
drive that section of road with their

984
01:40:56,000 --> 01:41:03,920
graater before they blade it, then they
know whether it needs anything or not.

985
01:41:01,600 --> 01:41:09,040
There's there's no other way to know how
they would know if it needs blading. And

986
01:41:06,560 --> 01:41:16,960
I can't drive, 1900 kilometers of gravel
road every day to let them guys know

987
01:41:11,679 --> 01:41:21,440
what needs to be to be done. Um
I I think it's a pretty standard

988
01:41:20,239 --> 01:41:25,440
practice,
>> right? But it's just that the way that

989
01:41:22,960 --> 01:41:30,719
you worded that, you said they want to
go grade a section,

990
01:41:28,400 --> 01:41:35,679
» right? So when when they're when they're
requesting to grade a section of road

991
01:41:33,360 --> 01:41:40,560
» and that that request should come from
administration and same with gravel. You

992
01:41:38,000 --> 01:41:45,040
mentioned when they request gravel well
the graveling should come from our

993
01:41:42,719 --> 01:41:50,159
experts not from the operators,
>> right? Those those decisions shouldn't

994
01:41:46,719 --> 01:41:56,400
be being made by operators.
So they'll put in a request for gravel.

995
01:41:53,119 --> 01:42:00,159
I will always go out and check that road
before it gets graveled. I

996
01:41:58,639 --> 01:42:04,639
Typically, [snorts]
um

997
01:42:02,159 --> 01:42:10,400
I think a greater operator once he's
been on his feet for amount of time

998
01:42:08,080 --> 01:42:16,239
comes up with a pretty good idea what
roads he has that do need a little bit

999
01:42:12,880 --> 01:42:21,280
of gravel put on them and they also get
to the point where they know which roads

1000
01:42:19,600 --> 01:42:25,440
need a little more maintenance and other
ones just you know to do with traffic or

1001
01:42:23,679 --> 01:42:29,920
that they just end up that way. you
know, uh, that 54 road south of Highway

1002
01:42:27,920 --> 01:42:34,239
11, we know is a higher maintenance road
than others because it's a a collector

1003
01:42:32,320 --> 01:42:38,800
road and it sees a lot of traffic. So,
of course, that road would need more

1004
01:42:36,560 --> 01:42:44,480
maintenance than another one. And that
greater operator, if he's doing his job,

1005
01:42:41,679 --> 01:42:49,119
should know that.
Um, I shouldn't have to tell him to do

1006
01:42:46,719 --> 01:42:54,639
that.
In my opinion, that's that's how I

1007
01:42:52,080 --> 01:42:58,480
operate. I mean, I do I put a lot of
miles on

1008
01:42:56,560 --> 01:43:03,280
um
doing my job and if if I do see a road

1009
01:43:01,440 --> 01:43:07,520
that's,
you know, obviously needing some

1010
01:43:04,960 --> 01:43:10,400
maintenance and in my opinion is is seen
a lack of maintenance, I will get a hold

1011
01:43:09,199 --> 01:43:14,639
of them and say, "Hey, you know, you
need to you need to give this road a

1012
01:43:12,880 --> 01:43:17,840
little more attention or you know, I
think it needs more than maybe these

1013
01:43:16,719 --> 01:43:23,119
other roads that you've been working
on." But it's a process, but uh they

1014
01:43:21,280 --> 01:43:26,400
should
learn their beat and know what needs to

1015
01:43:24,960 --> 01:43:30,639
be done,
>> right? And I couldn't agree more, but as

1016
01:43:28,239 --> 01:43:35,280
Mr. Rude indicated,
overg grading and overgraing is a huge

1017
01:43:33,520 --> 01:43:40,560
part of our problem. [clears throat]
>> So when a person is running a business

1018
01:43:38,480 --> 01:43:44,960
and their business is to put more hours
on their piece of equipment,

1019
01:43:43,119 --> 01:43:49,600
then naturally
overgrading is going to occur.

1020
01:43:48,239 --> 01:43:54,400
So,
>> I am trying to mitigate that. Again,

1021
01:43:52,719 --> 01:44:00,480
» would that I guess for Mr. Rude, would
that be typical in in other counties for

1022
01:43:56,639 --> 01:44:06,080
beat operators to decide? I mean, where
I'm from in the land of gravel roads and

1023
01:44:02,400 --> 01:44:08,400
no highways, it never once would an
operator decide when they should go

1024
01:44:07,600 --> 01:44:13,280
grading.
>> It's we have to start building that

1025
01:44:10,960 --> 01:44:21,360
trust up with it with the operators.
Doesn't matter if it's a contractor or a

1026
01:44:16,719 --> 01:44:25,360
um an employee operator. They when just
like you said, when you're in that area,

1027
01:44:23,440 --> 01:44:30,080
you you know where your soft spots are,
your more traveled roads are. You learn

1028
01:44:27,760 --> 01:44:34,400
them as you go along and with guidance
of management. Okay, this road usually

1029
01:44:32,239 --> 01:44:38,800
busier that hit this one once a week.
You don't have to hit this one for two

1030
01:44:36,560 --> 01:44:43,199
weeks, whatever. But as they get more
comfy with their roads, they should

1031
01:44:40,800 --> 01:44:47,119
know, you know, which is their their
arterial roads, their main roads or

1032
01:44:44,800 --> 01:44:53,360
collector roads. And then when they're
out driving is how our goal should be is

1033
01:44:51,119 --> 01:44:58,080
they hit if they're if we have
washboard, you you hit that, but you

1034
01:44:55,520 --> 01:45:01,920
don't hit the majority of that two-mile
range road because then we create all

1035
01:45:00,320 --> 01:45:06,000
that dust. But you want to get ahead of
our washboard. So, we just touch up our

1036
01:45:03,840 --> 01:45:10,960
intersections and that comes from them
driving it and then seeing because

1037
01:45:08,400 --> 01:45:14,239
exactly if if I don't know as a greater
operator

1038
01:45:12,480 --> 01:45:18,480
what this road is, I see it nice and
packed down. Why would I want to blade

1039
01:45:15,920 --> 01:45:23,679
that first? I I would like to rip down
it first to see that it's good. Then,

1040
01:45:21,679 --> 01:45:28,159
oh, the washboard at the other end is
bad. So, I'll hit that 100 mters or

1041
01:45:25,679 --> 01:45:33,760
whatever and then carry on to the next
road. And then springtime, we should be

1042
01:45:30,880 --> 01:45:36,960
blading constantly to get our roads,
hold them where we are, hold them in

1043
01:45:35,760 --> 01:45:43,679
shape, and then as the summer
progresses, Exactly. going back just to

1044
01:45:39,840 --> 01:45:48,719
to spot grade um where I need it. But I
don't know, maybe there was a bail haul

1045
01:45:46,800 --> 01:45:51,840
coming out that half a mile up the road.
I don't know that until I drive it,

1046
01:45:50,239 --> 01:45:56,960
right? But I don't have to touch this
piece. I could just touch that to

1047
01:45:54,320 --> 01:46:03,520
mitigate the dust. So they the trust has
to be with them too. Um and that's part

1048
01:45:59,920 --> 01:46:06,880
of building the team is trusting them a
bit knowing that they're going to be

1049
01:46:05,520 --> 01:46:11,360
doing the washboards, they're going to
be doing other stuff, but just like you

1050
01:46:09,440 --> 01:46:18,000
said, knowing the residents are going to
see them the blade up in the air. Okay.

1051
01:46:14,159 --> 01:46:22,080
I I don't know how else to stop the dust
unless I drive that road. If I just put

1052
01:46:20,400 --> 01:46:27,520
the blade down and go, I'm going to I
know I'm going to have dust. So without

1053
01:46:24,560 --> 01:46:33,840
them driving it first and then focusing
on our intersections where our washboard

1054
01:46:29,440 --> 01:46:36,560
is, our hills um to get ahead of of the
dust.

1055
01:46:35,040 --> 01:46:40,159
» Thank you for that, Mr. Rude. There's
still a uh looks like there's still some

1056
01:46:38,800 --> 01:46:46,360
significant amount of discussion on this
item, but this time we're going to take

1057
01:46:41,199 --> 01:46:46,360
a 10-minute recess and we'll be back at

1058
02:00:15,119 --> 02:00:21,840
Good morning everybody. Welcome back to
our September 8th, 2026 regular council

1059
02:00:20,000 --> 02:00:27,360
meeting after a short recess. And we'll
continue on with the agenda item for

1060
02:00:25,040 --> 02:00:29,520
item 5.2.
Council Surmac, do you have comments or

1061
02:00:29,119 --> 02:00:35,760
questions?
>> Yes, Mr. RDE. Um, I've been listening to

1062
02:00:33,360 --> 02:00:42,719
you talking and stuff and you say that
now we're using a different blade on our

1063
02:00:38,320 --> 02:00:48,320
roads and it seems to be helping.
I've been in the oil patch over 50 years

1064
02:00:46,000 --> 02:00:54,400
and every problem that I've come to
there's always a root cause for it. Do

1065
02:00:51,920 --> 02:01:00,560
you have some root causes that is
causing this problem?

1066
02:00:57,119 --> 02:01:08,159
» Can you explain please? The number one
reason uh that our roads are soft is

1067
02:01:05,520 --> 02:01:14,320
how our blade placement has always been.
So we we go back to you running a grater

1068
02:01:11,840 --> 02:01:20,159
years ago. I got taught we've all been
taught to roll a mboard ahead and that

1069
02:01:18,239 --> 02:01:25,599
is the worst thing we can be doing to
our gravel roads to our oil to anything

1070
02:01:23,280 --> 02:01:29,280
in the oil patch. Same thing when we're
building a road. We we've always rolled

1071
02:01:27,614 --> 02:01:35,440
[snorts] that mboard ahead. And what
that does is that rips our base open.

1072
02:01:33,599 --> 02:01:40,639
And now if it rains tonight, the water
is allowed to go down. And then if we

1073
02:01:37,679 --> 02:01:44,719
have a good claybased road, it softens
our clay up. And now we have a soft spot

1074
02:01:42,800 --> 02:01:51,520
in our roads. And now we fight with that
soft spot, never recognizing the true

1075
02:01:47,599 --> 02:01:56,480
root cause of our problems on our roads.
And it's the mboard placement running

1076
02:01:54,000 --> 02:02:03,040
different blades, the Sanvic blades in
the summer. Um soft steel blades with a

1077
02:02:00,480 --> 02:02:08,400
rolled head. And how how this has all
come about is um back in the day we

1078
02:02:06,400 --> 02:02:13,599
always had to run soft steel blades. So,
as the blade wears out, one, we get a

1079
02:02:11,199 --> 02:02:18,960
crown in our blades, which is awful to
our roads, but two is it forces us to

1080
02:02:16,400 --> 02:02:24,480
roll the mboard ahead or we'll be on the
back of the blade on our frog and then

1081
02:02:21,599 --> 02:02:28,880
that'll wear the bolt holes out and then
we're in big trouble for that. So, we

1082
02:02:26,320 --> 02:02:32,719
have always been taught and the biggest
thing is I want to see my cutting edge.

1083
02:02:30,880 --> 02:02:38,400
So, I roll the mboard ahead till I see
it. not understanding

1084
02:02:35,440 --> 02:02:44,080
what that is doing to our roads. And
then it goes back. We we argue about

1085
02:02:40,880 --> 02:02:50,080
gravel. We argue about everything else,
but we've never addressed the true root

1086
02:02:46,320 --> 02:02:56,400
cause is is our moleboard placement. And
given uh the the operators a chance to

1087
02:02:53,440 --> 02:03:01,920
succeed by all of us learning these
little things, but they're actually big

1088
02:02:58,880 --> 02:03:08,000
big things. And and I call it the 1980
way. how we've all learned and how how

1089
02:03:04,960 --> 02:03:14,400
every resident out there is is a better
operator than than than the operators

1090
02:03:11,440 --> 02:03:21,679
because we've they drive the roads every
day and they've never been in a greater.

1091
02:03:16,719 --> 02:03:28,560
Um it it it even goes back to tires. The
the the Bridgestone makes a tire, but

1092
02:03:25,199 --> 02:03:33,119
they don't run a grater. So it goes back
they say you run 50 pounds of air in the

1093
02:03:30,639 --> 02:03:37,679
tires. Well, now our mechanics have
Okay, they should know. Well, no, they

1094
02:03:35,760 --> 02:03:42,960
don't know. They make the tire. They
don't run the grater. So, they mandate

1095
02:03:40,800 --> 02:03:48,560
that their operators run 50 lbs of air
in the tires. That creates the bounce.

1096
02:03:46,639 --> 02:03:52,639
Now, we have this slight bounce in our
roads. And now, because the operator has

1097
02:03:50,960 --> 02:03:56,719
been so browbeat to hurry up and get
around, get around, get around that he's

1098
02:03:55,280 --> 02:04:02,560
trying to go a little faster, which
creates more washboard. So instead of

1099
02:03:59,360 --> 02:04:09,520
tweaking the tires and and putting the
tires in the right spot, now we can go

1100
02:04:05,599 --> 02:04:15,199
in fourth gear and blade at 16700, which
is a 10-minute mile. So now we all know

1101
02:04:12,960 --> 02:04:21,520
it takes 10 minutes a mile to blade a
road. One pass on one mile is 10

1102
02:04:17,679 --> 02:04:25,199
minutes. To do four passes is 40
minutes. to do a five pass to bigger,

1103
02:04:23,440 --> 02:04:29,760
wider road, which it goes back to our
conversation. Every road's bladed the

1104
02:04:27,520 --> 02:04:35,679
same except the width. Is there four
passes or is there five? Now, we all

1105
02:04:32,719 --> 02:04:39,280
know, okay, our service level. We can
actually gauge our service [snorts]

1106
02:04:37,040 --> 02:04:44,880
level now on how we're blading the
rules. So, there's so much that goes

1107
02:04:42,000 --> 02:04:49,280
into it and but the root cause in my
opinion is is the mole board's been

1108
02:04:47,280 --> 02:04:53,520
rolled ahead and we fought with that
back in the day was pit run. So, we

1109
02:04:51,199 --> 02:04:57,280
brought pit run out to fix that soft
spot. Well, now we know we're all up

1110
02:04:55,679 --> 02:05:03,440
against the pit run. We're we're hitting
pit run and every road because 50 years

1111
02:05:00,239 --> 02:05:09,520
ago that was the answer.
>> And now it's we're finding out

1112
02:05:05,920 --> 02:05:15,360
» it was a soft base all these years and
the answer was more gravel. And now

1113
02:05:13,040 --> 02:05:19,840
we're getting, you know, the influx of
traffic and people building right off

1114
02:05:17,280 --> 02:05:25,360
the roads. Now we have the dust issue.
Why why is there so much dust?

1115
02:05:23,040 --> 02:05:28,800
So, it's it's pretty cool.
>> Okay. So, one more.

1116
02:05:27,520 --> 02:05:32,880
» Go ahead, Council Ser.
>> Um, then you're saying that if you're

1117
02:05:31,040 --> 02:05:37,920
grading a road, you shouldn't have a
water truck coming right after the

1118
02:05:34,719 --> 02:05:41,280
grading because that would soften your
your main state road, your base of your

1119
02:05:40,639 --> 02:05:46,960
road.
>> Well, the one

1120
02:05:43,679 --> 02:05:55,199
» of doing that for sure. So what you do
is is we try and and minimize where the

1121
02:05:50,239 --> 02:06:00,480
gravel is going on our roads to to have
a proper road. We got to think of a

1122
02:05:57,280 --> 02:06:05,520
piece of pavement. So the pavement is
higher than our grass.

1123
02:06:03,119 --> 02:06:10,159
» That's what we want every road to be for
drainage.

1124
02:06:07,040 --> 02:06:16,719
That lets us, the operator, go down
halfway down on that on that oil to cut

1125
02:06:13,520 --> 02:06:21,280
the crown into our base. And then the
gravel, we can tight blade our gravel,

1126
02:06:19,040 --> 02:06:25,920
leaving a/4 in of gravel on the center
of the road. And then we can build our

1127
02:06:23,679 --> 02:06:29,679
shoulders back up again so we have
something to cut the next time we're

1128
02:06:27,440 --> 02:06:35,040
there. And that's what gets our roads
hard from shoulder to shoulder. By

1129
02:06:32,800 --> 02:06:39,840
putting the gravel instead of in the
middle where we get dust, where we get

1130
02:06:37,280 --> 02:06:45,840
ridging, we tight blade it and we start
building our shoulders up. So it

1131
02:06:42,560 --> 02:06:50,480
minimizes [snorts] the the dust on on
the center of the driving surface. And

1132
02:06:47,679 --> 02:06:54,960
then you'll find the traffic without
even knowing it, the school buses will

1133
02:06:52,800 --> 02:07:00,880
start driving the full width of our
roads. you'll see four tracks down the

1134
02:06:58,239 --> 02:07:05,599
the road instead of two. So, you know
you've got your road in shape. It's

1135
02:07:03,199 --> 02:07:10,800
safe. It's smooth. That 16-year-old kid
that just got his driver's license can

1136
02:07:07,360 --> 02:07:15,599
go down that road at 80k. That's our
goal.

1137
02:07:12,800 --> 02:07:20,000
But what stops us is our shoulders. Now,
I think we've gotten our bases I know

1138
02:07:18,159 --> 02:07:24,320
we've gotten our bases way harder than
what they used to be there. Is there

1139
02:07:21,679 --> 02:07:31,119
still work to do? 100%. But it's
minimizing. Now, what this system does

1140
02:07:27,760 --> 02:07:36,159
for us is it minimizes instead of having
to rebuild two miles of road, maybe we

1141
02:07:33,920 --> 02:07:42,400
only got to build up that through that
musk spot because the the operators

1142
02:07:38,639 --> 02:07:47,280
getting the the mile and 3/4 better. So,
the the the savings is huge if if we

1143
02:07:45,040 --> 02:07:51,520
know, you know, now we don't have to
spend all that money on two miles. It's

1144
02:07:49,679 --> 02:07:56,639
just a half a mile. Now we can do five
different roads for the same price as

1145
02:07:54,079 --> 02:08:03,199
doing two. There's so many different
options now that we can utilize.

1146
02:08:00,560 --> 02:08:08,159
» Yeah. And and I noticed on the roads
that I drive on, and I drive on quite a

1147
02:08:05,360 --> 02:08:12,639
few gravel roads, you'll see a road
fairly nice and narrow, and then you'll

1148
02:08:10,480 --> 02:08:16,800
come to a place where the road's really
squashed out. It's gained a couple feet

1149
02:08:15,520 --> 02:08:23,360
on each side.
>> Yeah. Is that because our base is not

1150
02:08:19,840 --> 02:08:25,679
good or have we mismanaged that gravel
road?

1151
02:08:23,920 --> 02:08:33,119
» There's quite a few different scenarios
on that. One is we've been told that we

1152
02:08:29,040 --> 02:08:38,239
as the operators to go out there and
pull that gravel in, pull that grass in.

1153
02:08:35,599 --> 02:08:42,480
So that automatically makes our road
wider.

1154
02:08:40,079 --> 02:08:46,800
Two, the road goes down. It's still
soft. So the road is going pushed down

1155
02:08:44,800 --> 02:08:51,920
and the operator goes wider to try and
bring it in. Anytime that blade touches

1156
02:08:49,440 --> 02:08:56,400
that grass, the driving Publix thinks
that that's the road. So then [snorts]

1157
02:08:54,480 --> 02:09:01,920
the then the road just gets wider and
wider and wider. We don't know how to

1158
02:08:58,719 --> 02:09:07,679
stop. The system
shows everybody how to stop that by

1159
02:09:05,840 --> 02:09:12,079
putting your right tire where you want
your shoulder to be and then you bring

1160
02:09:09,280 --> 02:09:18,159
the grass in and let let the grass stay
there. Then that straightens out your

1161
02:09:14,239 --> 02:09:23,760
shoulders safe smooth.
There's a there's a lot to it for sure.

1162
02:09:21,119 --> 02:09:26,639
» Yeah. And the root cause is
>> no board rolled too far ahead.

1163
02:09:25,520 --> 02:09:29,360
» Yeah. Thank you.
>> There could be actually many root

1164
02:09:27,920 --> 02:09:34,800
causes. there was no discussion about
dust and anyways there's uh many aspects

1165
02:09:32,719 --> 02:09:37,199
to this but what we'll do is we'll just
move on with this agenda item I do

1166
02:09:36,239 --> 02:09:40,079
believe that there's a lot more
discussion to take place on this but uh

1167
02:09:38,960 --> 02:09:44,480
moving on to the application of
herbicides along roadsides edges and uh

1168
02:09:41,920 --> 02:09:48,239
I'd like to invite director Van Newkerk
to [snorts] present this item please the

1169
02:09:46,960 --> 02:09:53,440
floor is yours
>> thank you Ree good morning council um as

1170
02:09:51,119 --> 02:09:58,320
part of the the motion from July 28th
and discussion that occurred there there

1171
02:09:55,199 --> 02:10:02,719
was a request to bring back um you know,
information on the application of

1172
02:09:59,599 --> 02:10:07,280
herbicides along the roadside edges. Um,
I just want to start with was everything

1173
02:10:04,800 --> 02:10:12,159
captured in um this section of the
agenda that was um council was looking

1174
02:10:09,920 --> 02:10:17,760
for in regard to herbicide applications
on the road edges to help with road

1175
02:10:15,280 --> 02:10:21,599
maintenance from Thank you for that,
Director Nukeer. A lot of the

1176
02:10:19,440 --> 02:10:24,639
information is uh taking the time to
reach out to other municipalities to

1177
02:10:22,960 --> 02:10:26,639
bring their their views and their
consideration and the

1178
02:10:26,030 --> 02:10:30,239
[clears throat and cough]
the approaches that other municipalities

1179
02:10:28,320 --> 02:10:35,119
have taken. I think it's uh very
appropriate um for the information. So

1180
02:10:32,560 --> 02:10:37,199
thank you for that. But please proceed
or if uh yeah

1181
02:10:36,239 --> 02:10:40,639
» yeah I can go through [clears throat]
the agenda item for sure. Um, so egg

1182
02:10:39,599 --> 02:10:44,000
services did reach out to our
counterparts and counties across the

1183
02:10:42,480 --> 02:10:48,000
province to receive feedback on
programs. They oversee for total

1184
02:10:46,079 --> 02:10:53,360
vegetation and control along road edges
and shoulders to reduce vegetation

1185
02:10:50,079 --> 02:10:57,679
encroachment onto the roadway. And as um
you can see attached the chart that we

1186
02:10:55,599 --> 02:11:01,920
compiled all the information uh from the
municipalities um on the feedback we

1187
02:11:00,000 --> 02:11:05,840
received there. In summary, the
responses um did not support a single

1188
02:11:03,920 --> 02:11:09,280
universal approach. Uh several
municipalities reported that a targeted

1189
02:11:07,599 --> 02:11:13,280
shoulder spraying program can reduce
grass roll back, make the road edge

1190
02:11:11,360 --> 02:11:17,360
easier for graders to reclaim and reduce
sod clumps and help to restore the

1191
02:11:15,520 --> 02:11:21,199
usable road surface. Other
municipalities found that glyphosate

1192
02:11:19,199 --> 02:11:26,639
only applications provided insufficient
or short-lived control and required

1193
02:11:24,560 --> 02:11:30,639
repeat applications or just did not
justify the added labor, fuel, and

1194
02:11:28,560 --> 02:11:35,360
equipment costs. The best reported
outcomes occurred when treatment was

1195
02:11:32,000 --> 02:11:38,880
applied to specific road problems and or
sorry problem roads and the application

1196
02:11:37,040 --> 02:11:44,239
equipment produced a controlled narrow
band and graders actively rec reclaimed

1197
02:11:41,199 --> 02:11:50,320
the treated edge. Um so the cost
analysis that we put together for the

1198
02:11:46,800 --> 02:11:54,400
shoulder spraying um you can see below.
So this analysis estimates the direct

1199
02:11:52,400 --> 02:11:58,800
cost of spraying 1 kilometer of road
shoulder using treatment bands of 3 ft

1200
02:11:56,480 --> 02:12:04,239
wide. It compares residual total
vegetation control with Arsenal power

1201
02:12:00,880 --> 02:12:10,960
line to folure control using Bayer RT540
glyphosate tank mixed with new farm 240

1202
02:12:07,280 --> 02:12:16,159
Esther 700. Um and in the chart there
you can see we did a bit of a cost

1203
02:12:13,199 --> 02:12:22,159
comparison. So on average using the
residual product of Arsenal power line

1204
02:12:18,880 --> 02:12:28,480
um the cost is about 29 km per hour or
sorry $29 per kilometer for a 3ft um

1205
02:12:26,239 --> 02:12:34,800
wide pass and that's just for the
herbicide. And then with the tank mix of

1206
02:12:32,159 --> 02:12:42,000
the the Roundup glyphosate product with
the new farm 24D um it comes to about

1207
02:12:37,840 --> 02:12:46,400
650 per kilometer for the herbicide
for a three-foot white pass. And then an

1208
02:12:44,159 --> 02:12:51,840
additional $10 per kilometer could be
added onto for um to account for the

1209
02:12:49,920 --> 02:12:55,920
truck and operator and the spraying
unit.

1210
02:12:53,840 --> 02:12:59,280
A treated shoulder kilometer means one
shoulder, so one kilometer long.

1211
02:12:58,000 --> 02:13:04,560
Treating both shoulders would
approximately um double the direct

1212
02:13:01,920 --> 02:13:10,079
treatment cost associated. And equipment
setup cost is um about three $3,500. And

1213
02:13:08,320 --> 02:13:12,800
items would include the tank, pump,
spray controller, nozzles, fittings,

1214
02:13:11,920 --> 02:13:18,360
etc.
um to set up a unit for this type of

1215
02:13:15,360 --> 02:13:18,360
application.

1216
02:13:18,400 --> 02:13:28,960
And that's all I have on that. Okay. The
uh floor's open for council for

1217
02:13:26,560 --> 02:13:34,079
questions regarding the application of
herbicide along roadside edges.

1218
02:13:31,920 --> 02:13:37,599
I do have a question, Miss Newerk. For
the there was the [clears throat] costs

1219
02:13:35,920 --> 02:13:42,880
identified. Is there um some
municipalities really reported uh useful

1220
02:13:40,320 --> 02:13:47,117
and were supportive of application of
herbicides along roadside edges to um

1221
02:13:45,280 --> 02:13:50,320
reduce you know they had low
[clears throat] chemical cost they had

1222
02:13:48,159 --> 02:13:57,520
saw break up easier there was less
greater time uh there was fewer sod

1223
02:13:53,920 --> 02:14:02,079
clumps and less dust after rain
is there any comparison for the cost

1224
02:13:59,360 --> 02:14:05,679
like with the reduced greater time like
there's there's expenses the costs have

1225
02:14:03,920 --> 02:14:10,639
been presented but are there any cost
savings things.

1226
02:14:07,840 --> 02:14:16,000
» We didn't do that analysis from our end.
Um this was just basically from the egg

1227
02:14:13,679 --> 02:14:22,320
services side, what it would cost for us
to the application um type thing. Um it

1228
02:14:19,280 --> 02:14:25,679
wasn't kind of extrapolating that into
if there's cost savings on overall road

1229
02:14:24,480 --> 02:14:29,360
maintenance.
>> Okay. I think those numbers could be

1230
02:14:27,280 --> 02:14:36,480
useful. Uh Mr. Rude, go ahead, please.
Um, first I would like to just say

1231
02:14:33,920 --> 02:14:40,639
why do we feel we need to spray our
shoulders?

1232
02:14:38,560 --> 02:14:47,679
Uh, I have this conversation with every
municipality. It's a it's a slippery

1233
02:14:43,280 --> 02:14:53,440
slope. Um, when we start spraying our
shoulders,

1234
02:14:49,280 --> 02:14:59,840
one, it kills our grassroots
and then that weakens our shoulders.

1235
02:14:56,079 --> 02:15:05,040
then that opens the doors for residual
noxious weeds to come in. Um there's

1236
02:15:02,400 --> 02:15:10,239
counties farther south and east that
have a massive kosha problem now because

1237
02:15:07,679 --> 02:15:16,960
we've sprayed the 2t 3 ft of our
shoulders. Um I would I would ask

1238
02:15:14,400 --> 02:15:22,560
number one question is
where is our shoulder on our road?

1239
02:15:20,079 --> 02:15:27,520
Nobody nobody here knows. I don't know.
We don't know where our shoulder of our

1240
02:15:25,119 --> 02:15:32,239
road is. So we and neither do the
greater guys. We look at the grass line.

1241
02:15:30,560 --> 02:15:35,280
That's the first thing we all look at.
And there, well, that must be our

1242
02:15:33,679 --> 02:15:41,520
shoulder.
How do we know? We don't know.

1243
02:15:38,800 --> 02:15:45,920
That's why the graders have always been
told to go wider to get rid of the lip.

1244
02:15:44,320 --> 02:15:50,913
So, we're in the grass. That's why the
graders want to spray to get rid of our

1245
02:15:48,960 --> 02:15:53,679
grass on our shoulder.
>> [clears throat]

1246
02:15:51,280 --> 02:15:59,360
» Where is our shoulder? If we spray three
feet, we've just made that road a meter

1247
02:15:55,840 --> 02:16:05,440
wider on both sides.
At what cost? We still have a lip there.

1248
02:16:02,880 --> 02:16:11,040
Now we're into our shoulder of our road,
which is top soil, and it's soft. Now

1249
02:16:08,560 --> 02:16:16,960
the combine drives down there and puts a
rut this deep in it. Now we go out

1250
02:16:13,199 --> 02:16:24,159
farther to minimize that. Now the road
turns into 10 m wide. So we we don't

1251
02:16:20,480 --> 02:16:29,920
know where to stop. So just a caution on
spraying shoulders. Um what what we need

1252
02:16:27,840 --> 02:16:35,439
to do is go back to thinking about our
pavement. The the base of the road needs

1253
02:16:32,880 --> 02:16:40,240
to be higher than our grass.
That's that's what we're after to get

1254
02:16:37,840 --> 02:16:46,160
the the drainage to get everything we
want out of our gravel roads. It to

1255
02:16:43,120 --> 02:16:50,240
spray over here does not affect here. It
just makes our service level go down

1256
02:16:48,319 --> 02:16:55,040
because now there's more passes. Now
it's more gravel. It's everything

1257
02:16:52,319 --> 02:17:00,160
compounds because we're chasing what we
think is a shoulder and we don't even

1258
02:16:57,679 --> 02:17:04,719
know where our shoulders are. Uh I've
had this conversation with engineers and

1259
02:17:02,719 --> 02:17:08,960
it goes back to the width of our roads.
What is the spec of our roads? Well,

1260
02:17:06,319 --> 02:17:15,439
everyone's different.
We there's we have three different

1261
02:17:11,359 --> 02:17:20,080
categories. a 5 to 6 m a 6 to 7 or sorry
6 to 8 m wide road and the eight pens

1262
02:17:18,240 --> 02:17:25,920
that's our three different widths of our
roads but where is our shoulder I have

1263
02:17:24,319 --> 02:17:30,800
this conversation constantly with people
and we go look [clears throat] and the

1264
02:17:27,679 --> 02:17:36,160
first thing we look at is our grass line
that's our shoulder how do you know we

1265
02:17:34,080 --> 02:17:39,120
don't
thank you for the comments Mr. route. I

1266
02:17:37,599 --> 02:17:44,639
think there still again there's
misunderstanding or miscommunication of

1267
02:17:41,359 --> 02:17:49,359
some form here, but uh if I may, why why
would you spray three feet? That was

1268
02:17:47,200 --> 02:17:53,280
identified by County Paint Earth in the
agenda item here. But why would you just

1269
02:17:51,679 --> 02:17:59,840
generally
spray 3 feet? Why would you do that? Or

1270
02:17:56,639 --> 02:18:06,240
or could that be maybe on some roads
some roads may not need it at all but

1271
02:18:02,800 --> 02:18:10,399
some roads may only need maybe a foot or
and the cost efficiencies or is there

1272
02:18:08,319 --> 02:18:14,719
any there's no cost comparisons to
manage the vegetation with the greater

1273
02:18:12,160 --> 02:18:19,200
blade in the greater time. I I've
actually was just on a road yesterday um

1274
02:18:17,040 --> 02:18:22,800
in the northern portion of the county.
The vegetation is so thick on the side

1275
02:18:20,880 --> 02:18:26,160
of the road.
If you were to grade that into the road,

1276
02:18:24,399 --> 02:18:32,800
you'd have saw clumps. But the road now
is actually lower than the grass.

1277
02:18:30,479 --> 02:18:37,439
So to to make a blank statement that
it's just three feet and urge caution

1278
02:18:35,359 --> 02:18:39,679
against that that you have many
different tools in the toolbox, you

1279
02:18:38,639 --> 02:18:44,000
don't use the same tool. Like if you're
a carpenter, you don't use the same

1280
02:18:40,719 --> 02:18:47,840
hammer for every job. But are we saying
that the gravel road maintenance in

1281
02:18:46,160 --> 02:18:52,399
Clear Water County is poor? I think in
many ways it's actually really good. But

1282
02:18:49,920 --> 02:18:56,719
what we're trying to do is improve
this the the quality of the roads on

1283
02:18:54,880 --> 02:18:59,920
behalf of the residents. So if we can
make some minor adjustments to improve

1284
02:18:58,479 --> 02:19:03,280
the quality of the roads and reduce some
dust and have [clears throat] better

1285
02:19:01,200 --> 02:19:07,439
efficiencies, I think that's the intent
here. But to say that we wouldn't just

1286
02:19:05,439 --> 02:19:11,439
spray the roads with
>> three feet.

1287
02:19:09,280 --> 02:19:14,399
That's the like the three feet of your
element. It doesn't matter if we're

1288
02:19:12,639 --> 02:19:20,639
spraying a foot or if we're spraying
three feet. Who who who decides that?

1289
02:19:17,359 --> 02:19:26,080
And then each road, you got to go back
to why are we spraying it in the first

1290
02:19:22,240 --> 02:19:32,160
place? What is our goal to spray that?
Is it to get rid of a curb?

1291
02:19:29,519 --> 02:19:37,840
Is it to kill the grass? What what are
we what are we spraying for? That's what

1292
02:19:35,840 --> 02:19:42,479
we got to address right now. What's the
op what is the goal of spraying? I don't

1293
02:19:40,800 --> 02:19:47,679
if it's this much or this much, but what
is our goal? Why are we doing that?

1294
02:19:44,319 --> 02:19:52,240
» I would ask one question. Do grers does
vegetation impact grers when on gravel

1295
02:19:51,040 --> 02:19:56,960
roads?
>> For sure. If you're way out in in the

1296
02:19:54,880 --> 02:19:59,840
buting is not killing
>> the the lip.

1297
02:19:58,479 --> 02:20:03,520
» It's not it's not getting rid of your
lip. That's what we need to address is

1298
02:20:01,359 --> 02:20:07,760
the lip. It's not the grass that's on
top of the lip. It's the lip that brings

1299
02:20:05,280 --> 02:20:11,760
in the sod. That's the difference.
There's two different things there on

1300
02:20:08,880 --> 02:20:16,399
the shoulders. So, if we're out and
that's the system teaches you go down to

1301
02:20:13,760 --> 02:20:20,720
the green on on your right side, you
don't go into the saw. And if there's a

1302
02:20:18,160 --> 02:20:25,200
lip there, you don't go in to the lip.
What we all tell everybody is to go out

1303
02:20:22,960 --> 02:20:29,200
there and pull that lip in to get rid of
the curb. And that's why, okay, we'll

1304
02:20:27,280 --> 02:20:33,920
spray that. That's still not fixing the
problem. We're We still have a lip

1305
02:20:31,280 --> 02:20:39,840
there. That's the issue. Not the grass
that's growing on top of it. It's the

1306
02:20:36,240 --> 02:20:44,000
lip. So now by pulling that in, we're
getting all these sod lumps. So that's

1307
02:20:41,520 --> 02:20:48,479
why we want to spray is to minimize our
sod.

1308
02:20:45,840 --> 02:20:52,720
That's it's still saw and it's still at
mixing into our gravel. The next time it

1309
02:20:51,120 --> 02:20:59,439
rains, maybe there's a bunch of clay in
there. Now it gets greasy. That's the

1310
02:20:55,200 --> 02:21:03,920
issues we need to to address. And for
for to spray an inch or two inches or

1311
02:21:02,160 --> 02:21:08,399
three feet, that's irrelevant on what
we're doing. That's where the discer

1312
02:21:05,840 --> 02:21:12,640
would come in. If I don't kill my
grassroot, my grass is going to come

1313
02:21:10,800 --> 02:21:18,080
right back.
That's what we want. But we need our

1314
02:21:14,800 --> 02:21:24,160
shoulder of our road so it drains.
That's the issue. And it's it's the

1315
02:21:21,760 --> 02:21:28,880
spraying. And you you talk here, you're
not wrong about people spraying because

1316
02:21:27,200 --> 02:21:32,880
it comes from the greater guys. It comes
from everybody. Well, if we spray that,

1317
02:21:30,880 --> 02:21:36,880
we'll get rid of it. We're not looking
at the right spots.

1318
02:21:35,200 --> 02:21:41,120
What is our goal? What do you want? If
there's a lip there, spraying's not

1319
02:21:39,280 --> 02:21:45,200
going to fix a lip. We still have to
pull it in.

1320
02:21:43,439 --> 02:21:49,680
» Just be pulling in saws and grass and
vegetar. And then you what you just said

1321
02:21:47,760 --> 02:21:54,560
before, yes, we don't want to be out
there at all. We don't want to touch

1322
02:21:52,240 --> 02:22:00,880
that. Why are we pulling all that
material into our road? Road building

1323
02:21:57,359 --> 02:22:07,040
101. If we're building a brand new road,
we would get fired if we put sod on the

1324
02:22:03,200 --> 02:22:11,280
road. But now to fix our gravel roads,
we spray and we do shoulder post. We

1325
02:22:09,439 --> 02:22:16,080
pull all that garbage from the ditch
into our roads

1326
02:22:13,439 --> 02:22:20,720
and think we've done a good job. Now
we've got layers of sod and clay and

1327
02:22:18,880 --> 02:22:24,960
garbage on our roads and then we cover
it up with gravel and then we we

1328
02:22:23,439 --> 02:22:30,399
complain to the greater guy when the
road is soft.

1329
02:22:27,680 --> 02:22:36,000
H why that stuff should not be on our
road. It should be on our shoulders and

1330
02:22:33,520 --> 02:22:41,359
then it goes back to our shoulders. A
one one most of our gravel roads are

1331
02:22:38,319 --> 02:22:47,200
straight up and down now. So we can use
that material to start building our road

1332
02:22:43,520 --> 02:22:51,280
slope a 2:1 3 one to make them safer.
Maybe some of the farmers can even start

1333
02:22:48,880 --> 02:22:55,920
cutting them again. Maybe. But that's
where we got to address. Leave that

1334
02:22:53,280 --> 02:23:00,000
material on the shoulder. Don't pull it
in like the 1980 way, but that's every

1335
02:22:58,240 --> 02:23:03,840
county is doing that. Oh, that to get
rid of the lip, we pull do a shoulder

1336
02:23:02,080 --> 02:23:09,359
pull. We have a million-dollar program
every year. We pull shoulders. It's in

1337
02:23:06,479 --> 02:23:15,760
our back pocket if we need it for sure,
but not every road. And it's not the

1338
02:23:11,280 --> 02:23:20,560
only out. There's options to minimize ad
mixing our material

1339
02:23:18,000 --> 02:23:25,840
and leaving that stuff on the shoulder.
That's the key. I don't think anybody

1340
02:23:22,960 --> 02:23:30,479
was wanting to pull top soil or clay up
onto a perfectly good gravel road. Then

1341
02:23:28,720 --> 02:23:33,920
then the top soil was maybe when the
road was built, it was brought maybe too

1342
02:23:32,160 --> 02:23:39,120
close to the gravel surface. But
>> the uh you know some some residents

1343
02:23:36,479 --> 02:23:43,920
would not want the use of herbicides or
application of herbicides on roads.

1344
02:23:41,200 --> 02:23:47,760
» But if you have a gravel pad,
vegetation will grow on gravel. There's

1345
02:23:46,319 --> 02:23:52,399
there's no top soil, there's no clays,
you can have gravel, but vegetation. So,

1346
02:23:50,000 --> 02:23:56,319
it's more about the maintenance or the
the management of vegetation. Even if

1347
02:23:54,960 --> 02:24:00,399
you have gravel on the side of your
road, you'll still have vegetation grow

1348
02:23:58,479 --> 02:24:06,720
there. But a gravel pad's different than
a gravel road. And we're and we're we're

1349
02:24:03,040 --> 02:24:09,200
looking at the shoulder of that road,
not the middle of the road. We're not

1350
02:24:07,920 --> 02:24:10,880
spraying the middle because no grass
grows there.

1351
02:24:09,760 --> 02:24:13,600
» Excellent. Good point. Yeah. No, that's
right. I think we'd all agree there's no

1352
02:24:12,399 --> 02:24:17,600
generally there's no grass.
>> We have to be cautious on why are we

1353
02:24:15,520 --> 02:24:19,920
spraying our shoulders? What do we gain
from that, guys? What do we What do we

1354
02:24:19,200 --> 02:24:22,080
want?
>> Okay, I think we're going to move on.

1355
02:24:21,040 --> 02:24:24,960
Thank you very much for the comments.
Councelor Le, please go ahead.

1356
02:24:23,280 --> 02:24:27,920
» Yeah. So, how do you get rid of your lip
then?

1357
02:24:25,600 --> 02:24:31,040
» So, that's the lip is what catches the
water.

1358
02:24:28,880 --> 02:24:35,520
» And you explained this earlier and that
you want to go in with your carbide

1359
02:24:32,800 --> 02:24:39,520
blades and blade that shoulder up and
compact that clay.

1360
02:24:38,240 --> 02:24:44,399
» Yep. How do we do this?
>> So, number one, like I said earlier, is

1361
02:24:42,800 --> 02:24:46,800
getting the water from the center of the
road to the shoulder. And we've done

1362
02:24:46,319 --> 02:24:52,560
that
>> crown for that. the crown 100%. Then now

1363
02:24:49,920 --> 02:24:57,120
we got two ways to get rid of the water
from our shoulder.

1364
02:24:53,840 --> 02:25:01,760
» One, we can put a diversion ditch in
>> just all it is is it's breaking that

1365
02:24:59,439 --> 02:25:06,960
grassroot. It's not killing it and it's
just using the mboard and you just go

1366
02:25:03,520 --> 02:25:12,319
down and that's it to get the water off
through that lip. Now the residents

1367
02:25:09,840 --> 02:25:16,880
don't see water pooling. The road still
dries faster. We can be blading. it's

1368
02:25:14,640 --> 02:25:24,000
not hurting our road because the water
is going into our ditch. The second step

1369
02:25:20,240 --> 02:25:32,160
is is with a discer and and using our
road crew too, but it's our discers that

1370
02:25:27,359 --> 02:25:37,359
disc that lip down without killing the
grassroots. That's the difference. And

1371
02:25:35,359 --> 02:25:42,240
and then you get rid of that lip and
then you don't go back out there. You

1372
02:25:39,520 --> 02:25:45,520
let the grass come back in and you
straighten out your shoulder

1373
02:25:43,120 --> 02:25:48,319
» and you create another lip and that's
the greater operators cut to the edge of

1374
02:25:47,439 --> 02:25:51,359
the grass
>> and there's places the shoulders that

1375
02:25:49,840 --> 02:25:53,280
far away and places the shoulders that
far away depending on the road like you

1376
02:25:53,040 --> 02:25:55,600
say.
>> 100%.

1377
02:25:53,840 --> 02:26:01,120
» Yeah. So we just repeat ourselves.
>> Yep. Well, we we have but now this is

1378
02:25:58,240 --> 02:26:05,520
what the training is doing. And what
what the greater guys and this is one

1379
02:26:03,200 --> 02:26:10,240
thing that I need you guys to understand
is how easy it is to put a lip in the

1380
02:26:08,160 --> 02:26:13,760
road. Even though we've never been in a
grater, we jump in a grater. I will

1381
02:26:12,080 --> 02:26:18,080
guarantee you would put a lip in that
rope. They're everywhere,

1382
02:26:14,800 --> 02:26:22,720
» right? But that's how easy it is. So,
and it comes from cut, cut, cut, cut. I

1383
02:26:20,960 --> 02:26:26,399
need to cut the washboard out. I need to
cut the holes out. We're not cutting

1384
02:26:24,720 --> 02:26:31,040
anymore with these carbide blades. We're
rubbing, which doesn't make sense until

1385
02:26:28,640 --> 02:26:36,720
you see it, but it's it's everything
we're doing is way lighter now than what

1386
02:26:34,399 --> 02:26:42,160
we used to do because of the mboard
rolled back. It's totally goes against

1387
02:26:40,160 --> 02:26:51,040
everything we've been told and thought
we knew. And now by by stopping that

1388
02:26:46,160 --> 02:26:55,520
curbing, the discer will will disc that
down to garden material

1389
02:26:53,760 --> 02:27:01,520
» so it's easy to move. So we eliminate
our saw. Then we lay it on our on our

1390
02:26:58,240 --> 02:27:05,760
shoulder to get our road slope back. And
then don't cut so hard the next time.

1391
02:27:04,479 --> 02:27:08,240
» We'll have to do a lot of brushing
before we can do that procedure. Then

1392
02:27:07,439 --> 02:27:10,720
» there you go.
>> Yeah.

1393
02:27:08,880 --> 02:27:13,920
» 100%.
>> Deputy Raven. Okay. Go ahead.

1394
02:27:13,432 --> 02:27:18,319
[clears throat and cough]
>> Thanks, Re. Um, just quickly, I'm sure

1395
02:27:16,960 --> 02:27:22,080
I'm not the only one that hears this,
but there's already a lot of residents

1396
02:27:20,319 --> 02:27:27,840
concerns come forward regarding county
ditch spraying as it is. And I'm not

1397
02:27:24,560 --> 02:27:33,200
sure that it would be very well received
if uh members of the community found out

1398
02:27:30,160 --> 02:27:38,800
that we were planning on using
glyphosate alongside all the roads. Um,

1399
02:27:36,080 --> 02:27:43,359
this should maybe be a a last resort
option and as Mr. Rude has indicated,

1400
02:27:41,359 --> 02:27:50,479
I'm just not sure it's necessary. Thank
you. Um on that item there's uh yeah as

1401
02:27:48,399 --> 02:27:54,399
a tool though for vegetation management
uh maybe director Van Newkerk would be

1402
02:27:52,080 --> 02:28:00,399
able to offer some for if there was a
1ft path spray what rates of glyophate

1403
02:27:57,600 --> 02:28:05,359
would be applied and uh for how how much
glyphe would potentially be on a 1ft

1404
02:28:03,120 --> 02:28:08,359
path be applied to one kilometer of
road.

1405
02:28:11,072 --> 02:28:13,092
[clears throat]

1406
02:28:17,520 --> 02:28:23,439
for Yeah, I'd have to do the math here.
I'm not good at doing that right on the

1407
02:28:21,920 --> 02:28:26,160
spot here, but I can figure it out if
you want and I can get back to you on

1408
02:28:24,720 --> 02:28:29,760
that.
>> Sure,

1409
02:28:27,920 --> 02:28:36,319
councelor Humphrey.
>> So, just for clarification,

1410
02:28:32,479 --> 02:28:41,439
we don't spray our shoulders right now,
do we?

1411
02:28:38,560 --> 02:28:45,200
for no broadleaf control potentially if
I'm not mistaken.

1412
02:28:42,720 --> 02:28:50,800
» Yes. So, we spray our roadsides for
noxious weeds and brush control. Um but

1413
02:28:48,240 --> 02:28:55,359
we don't do a total vegetation control
option um application on our roadsides.

1414
02:28:53,840 --> 02:28:59,120
» Yeah. So, we're not just going out there
and spraying shoulders.

1415
02:28:56,720 --> 02:29:03,120
» No, not for total veget like not for
killing everything type of thing. Only

1416
02:29:00,880 --> 02:29:07,040
broadleaf weeds or brush.
>> Yeah. But we're not just going along

1417
02:29:04,560 --> 02:29:09,680
spraying be it one foot or three foot
down the shoulder of our road. We're not

1418
02:29:08,880 --> 02:29:11,120
doing that.
>> No.

1419
02:29:10,000 --> 02:29:15,520
» No. That's why I just wanted
clarification on that. That we're not

1420
02:29:12,880 --> 02:29:19,680
doing that. This was just put out that,
hey, what do other counties do? Some of

1421
02:29:18,240 --> 02:29:22,319
them do.
>> That's right. Just based on the

1422
02:29:20,880 --> 02:29:26,479
discussion that happened at the July
28th meeting, it was requested to bring

1423
02:29:24,720 --> 02:29:29,600
back information on what that could look
like.

1424
02:29:26,880 --> 02:29:33,120
» Yeah. But we don't currently do it. So,
I just wanted clarification on that cuz

1425
02:29:31,359 --> 02:29:38,800
it doesn't seem like a good idea. in and
we're getting the information now that

1426
02:29:35,359 --> 02:29:44,319
that we need that root base from the
grass to hold our shoulders together.

1427
02:29:41,439 --> 02:29:48,720
So, uh
I mean even if even though it's been

1428
02:29:46,640 --> 02:29:52,720
said if you kill it, the roots are still
there, but eventually they would rot

1429
02:29:50,080 --> 02:29:58,080
away. So, uh we don't want to do that
because it would just enhance our

1430
02:29:54,800 --> 02:30:02,439
problem from what I'm gathering. So,
yep. No, [clears throat] thanks for the

1431
02:29:59,439 --> 02:30:02,439
clarification.

1432
02:30:02,640 --> 02:30:08,560
Deputy Eve, go ahead.
>> Thanks. And just to quickly expand on

1433
02:30:06,640 --> 02:30:13,520
something else Mr. Root said with
regards to the current slope of our

1434
02:30:11,280 --> 02:30:17,520
ditches, of our shoulders, there is a
lot of resident concern that it is in

1435
02:30:15,760 --> 02:30:23,280
fact sometimes a danger, especially with
farm equipment. So, anything that we can

1436
02:30:19,600 --> 02:30:27,040
do to improve that and mitigate future
you like even you meet somebody even

1437
02:30:25,520 --> 02:30:33,680
with a hay bind and you need to go into
the ditch while you're knife is in the

1438
02:30:30,319 --> 02:30:41,359
gravel and and that's uh definitely a
concern from a lot of residents. So

1439
02:30:37,120 --> 02:30:46,160
if we can mitigate that all the better
>> and it's everywhere the roads like that

1440
02:30:43,920 --> 02:30:51,439
and it comes from the roads over the
years have been pushed down and then it

1441
02:30:48,399 --> 02:30:55,200
goes out and then we pull in and then
you've got that straight up and down

1442
02:30:53,760 --> 02:31:02,439
shoulder.
>> Yeah. A lot of this is from roads that

1443
02:30:58,080 --> 02:31:02,439
were reconstructed to

1444
02:31:02,560 --> 02:31:07,200
» to a steeper pitch on the shoulders
>> and that's the other one too 100%.

1445
02:31:05,920 --> 02:31:11,200
» So it kind of
>> was a problem that

1446
02:31:08,560 --> 02:31:16,479
» we accidentally created
>> as an aside on that too and Mr.

1447
02:31:14,319 --> 02:31:21,680
mentioned that discers, they are a front
mounted discer that goes on the front of

1448
02:31:18,640 --> 02:31:25,920
the grater. So, it would be another
>> tool in our tool box to

1449
02:31:23,920 --> 02:31:32,000
» to be able to deal with that as we're
out there maintaining roads.

1450
02:31:28,880 --> 02:31:37,120
» So, a disc if I may discer for discing
>> just that the sod

1451
02:31:35,200 --> 02:31:39,840
and then how many liters of diesel. So,
we're talking about saw management

1452
02:31:38,640 --> 02:31:44,399
again. I think there's still a
misunderstanding here about vegetation

1453
02:31:41,760 --> 02:31:49,040
on the sides of the roads. Um there's
you know the amount of herbicide that

1454
02:31:47,200 --> 02:31:52,720
would be used would be very very little
but the amount of the hundreds of

1455
02:31:51,040 --> 02:31:56,800
gallons of diesel fuel that you would
use then for managing that sod like

1456
02:31:54,880 --> 02:32:00,880
there's no comparisons in in this and it
hasn't been identified. Um

1457
02:32:00,080 --> 02:32:05,200
please go ahead.
>> To me there's no comparison on having

1458
02:32:02,479 --> 02:32:12,560
noxious weeds. Um when and then
everybody sprain

1459
02:32:07,920 --> 02:32:18,399
in general is frowned upon now and
I go back to

1460
02:32:16,080 --> 02:32:24,399
what what are we what is the goal of
spray? We we don't gain anything

1461
02:32:22,000 --> 02:32:27,520
» gaining if I may the discer
>> we gain everything. you're you're

1462
02:32:25,760 --> 02:32:32,240
managing you're managing sod and
vegetation with the discer and you're

1463
02:32:29,840 --> 02:32:35,280
using and consuming thousands potent
potentially thousands of liters of

1464
02:32:33,920 --> 02:32:39,920
diesel fuel and heavy equipment to
manage sod. So I think there's needs to

1465
02:32:37,280 --> 02:32:43,920
be a a correlation between the what's
being trying to be presented here with

1466
02:32:42,000 --> 02:32:47,920
the use of potentially herbicide
application what would be quite

1467
02:32:45,280 --> 02:32:52,240
minuscule versus the amount of equipment
and fuel and to to manage that

1468
02:32:50,000 --> 02:32:57,920
vegetation. And that would be a really
good spot to to show on the road when

1469
02:32:55,280 --> 02:33:02,720
we're out there to to see the difference
of if we sprayed this compared to if we

1470
02:33:00,160 --> 02:33:09,760
disced and and what we're what our goal
is. It's both the same. We're trying to

1471
02:33:05,040 --> 02:33:15,520
get drainage, but at what cost? And to
do a shoulder pull, which is the normal

1472
02:33:13,040 --> 02:33:20,720
option, which if after you spray, you
will do a shoulder pull,

1473
02:33:18,240 --> 02:33:27,359
right? So now you're spending 10 times
more fuel than the district ever would

1474
02:33:24,080 --> 02:33:32,080
do. So I think we need to see it on the
road and then because we're both after

1475
02:33:29,200 --> 02:33:37,680
the same thing. It's it's seeing it on
the road and coming to the to the same

1476
02:33:35,200 --> 02:33:41,280
conclusion.
>> Council that one.

1477
02:33:38,880 --> 02:33:45,760
» Yeah. Um how much shoulder
rehabilitation's been done since you've

1478
02:33:43,120 --> 02:33:48,880
been with us for the last 5 years? Don
>> on in here?

1479
02:33:46,640 --> 02:33:52,080
» Yeah. Uh guys are working at it. There's
some diversion ditches. They've been

1480
02:33:50,399 --> 02:33:54,319
working doing the diversion ditches.
Everybody's been showing diversion

1481
02:33:53,280 --> 02:33:56,240
ditches.
>> Diversion ditches, but no shoulder poles

1482
02:33:55,920 --> 02:34:01,040
yet.
>> Um I don't believe there's a disc here,

1483
02:33:59,200 --> 02:34:05,200
» but we have pulled in for sure. They
have pulled in like in the low spots and

1484
02:34:02,880 --> 02:34:09,280
stuff. They will pull to get the water
off of the low spots. That's why you'll

1485
02:34:07,439 --> 02:34:14,160
see some of the roads. It goes wider
too. Every time you touch that grass to

1486
02:34:12,000 --> 02:34:19,200
get rid of the lip, your road goes
wider. And but it's it's water

1487
02:34:16,240 --> 02:34:24,640
management trying to get that lip off to
get the water off. So you'll see that

1488
02:34:22,399 --> 02:34:27,760
usually, you know, at the bottom or or
maybe even down halfway down a big hill

1489
02:34:26,240 --> 02:34:33,359
or something, you'll see it goes way
wider. It's because we've tried to get

1490
02:34:29,359 --> 02:34:36,800
rid of that lip to get the water off.
>> Thank you.

1491
02:34:34,000 --> 02:34:40,720
» Yeah, Deputy Ree, go ahead.
>> Thank you. Uh just so I understand this

1492
02:34:38,720 --> 02:34:45,520
a little better, when you're talking
about sod management using the

1493
02:34:42,479 --> 02:34:48,880
mechanical disc, is that not while
they're grading or is that a completely

1494
02:34:47,280 --> 02:34:53,439
separate pass for that machine?
>> That's two different things. So by

1495
02:34:51,200 --> 02:34:58,640
having it on the grater, you utilize the
blade of the grater and that's where we

1496
02:34:56,000 --> 02:35:04,160
can start to narrow up our roads if we
need to. If they're the 10 m wide and we

1497
02:35:00,560 --> 02:35:09,600
want them back to to nine, then that'll
help us build our road slope up too. our

1498
02:35:06,800 --> 02:35:13,920
shoulder of our road to help uh
stabilize our road shoulder. So you use

1499
02:35:11,840 --> 02:35:20,479
the blade, you use the discer first to
disc that lip and to break the saw up.

1500
02:35:17,920 --> 02:35:25,280
Then you use the blade to put that saw
wherever you want it on your road slope

1501
02:35:23,200 --> 02:35:28,080
on your road shoulder.
>> Okay. So it's not a single pass. It's

1502
02:35:27,120 --> 02:35:31,680
it's a two pass.
>> Yeah. It's two, three, four, or five

1503
02:35:29,680 --> 02:35:36,479
depending on where your breakover point
is on that shoulder of the road.

1504
02:35:34,000 --> 02:35:40,000
» I've just I've seen guys
doing it while they're also using the

1505
02:35:38,960 --> 02:35:46,080
blade too.
>> You can It's just there's a lot going on

1506
02:35:42,560 --> 02:35:48,640
and that's it. [laughter]
>> Takes an experienced operator for sure.

1507
02:35:48,000 --> 02:35:51,120
» Yeah.
>> So,

1508
02:35:49,040 --> 02:35:55,600
» but it's better to disc because and
that's where now looking and showing and

1509
02:35:53,040 --> 02:36:02,960
training everybody on on there's a
breakover point on every rope and that's

1510
02:35:59,280 --> 02:36:08,560
what makes us want to spray, want to um
do shoulder pulls is that breakover

1511
02:36:05,040 --> 02:36:14,399
pitch. So, it's the hinge of where the
road shoulder starts. It could be a

1512
02:36:11,439 --> 02:36:17,520
meter out in the grass. It could be
right there. But we look at that and

1513
02:36:16,000 --> 02:36:22,880
say, "Well, that's the shoulder of our
road." And it is not. But that's where

1514
02:36:20,479 --> 02:36:27,760
recognizing that and learning that it's
not our edge of our road. It's been

1515
02:36:25,760 --> 02:36:32,720
squished down and pushed out over the
years. And now we've got that football

1516
02:36:30,080 --> 02:36:39,439
shape. And that's the hinge. So, we disc
that hinge. and then we can we can move

1517
02:36:35,520 --> 02:36:46,640
our material or our road in or whatever.
It it's it's pretty cool to see that

1518
02:36:42,720 --> 02:36:50,479
work. Thank you.
This is a significant discussion today

1519
02:36:48,399 --> 02:36:54,000
here uh regarding maintenance of gravel
roads. Are there any comments or

1520
02:36:52,560 --> 02:36:58,359
questions or does administration have
any further information they'd like to

1521
02:36:55,359 --> 02:36:58,359
provide?

1522
02:37:01,439 --> 02:37:11,040
Um if we could uh Mr. Rude and Mr.
Leslie will we'll bring forward if we

1523
02:37:09,600 --> 02:37:15,359
could just a little bit of information
behind the use of the wobblies.

1524
02:37:13,840 --> 02:37:22,319
Okay.
Um so the wobblies are probably it's a

1525
02:37:20,000 --> 02:37:28,800
they're not doing what we expect them to
do on our roads. Uh,

1526
02:37:24,960 --> 02:37:35,040
a round tire does not pack gravel roads.
Round tire is for paving. We can maybe

1527
02:37:32,479 --> 02:37:40,319
use it for our calcium spots to seal it
off a little bit, but it goes back to

1528
02:37:37,520 --> 02:37:48,880
our moboard placement. Getting the base
hard with our blade. Um, not our not a

1529
02:37:44,880 --> 02:37:54,240
round tire. If if a round tire would
pack our roads, then our cars and and

1530
02:37:52,080 --> 02:37:59,600
our tractors would be packing them hard
as a rock every time we drive down. And

1531
02:37:56,880 --> 02:38:05,920
it doesn't. It It's It's It's breaking
our base apart. So, we compensate by if

1532
02:38:03,760 --> 02:38:12,560
we pack them,
we can get them harder. And where using

1533
02:38:09,040 --> 02:38:16,000
the water truck is on using, you know,
on our intersections or some hills for

1534
02:38:14,640 --> 02:38:20,720
sure.
wet it down to minimize the dust so we

1535
02:38:18,240 --> 02:38:26,240
can blade it to get it packed in and
then leave that. That's our goal. But to

1536
02:38:23,280 --> 02:38:31,920
have a packer running around on dry dry
material or even wet material, it's it's

1537
02:38:29,359 --> 02:38:38,399
just touching the surface of that
gravel. It's not packing and it's not

1538
02:38:34,640 --> 02:38:44,640
doing what it's does what we think it's
doing. Plus, it's not a [snorts] CSA

1539
02:38:41,200 --> 02:38:49,600
approved attachment for our graders.
And I've had other counties where

1540
02:38:47,120 --> 02:38:56,800
they've they've dynamited their brakes,
a brand new grater, by having this

1541
02:38:52,240 --> 02:39:02,399
10,000lb attachment on the back. It it
it's hurting our axles. It's hurting the

1542
02:38:59,600 --> 02:39:09,280
tandemss on the grers. It's wearing that
machine out way faster. So, a $700,000

1543
02:39:05,920 --> 02:39:13,760
grater in two years as we're we're
fixing it because of the attachments

1544
02:39:11,280 --> 02:39:19,760
we're using on the back end of it. And
then that packer being up it that grater

1545
02:39:16,560 --> 02:39:26,000
is constantly bouncing constantly. And
you you will see it and feel it in our

1546
02:39:21,760 --> 02:39:31,200
roads. And then it it's it's
not doing what we think it should be

1547
02:39:27,760 --> 02:39:38,120
doing. I I call them fill. Put them in
the bottom of a dugout.

1548
02:39:33,760 --> 02:39:38,120
They don't need to be on our roads.

1549
02:39:39,760 --> 02:39:44,080
» Director Magus.
>> Nope.

1550
02:39:42,720 --> 02:39:48,640
Is there any comments, questions
regarding this item or is this matter

1551
02:39:46,399 --> 02:39:50,479
resolved? Councelor Humphrey, go ahead.
>> Yes.

1552
02:39:49,520 --> 02:39:56,720
» I was just [clears throat] wondering how
we would uh how do we go about going

1553
02:39:53,920 --> 02:40:02,720
forward with this uh demonstration that
was mentioned? I would like to see that

1554
02:39:58,640 --> 02:40:06,720
happen. So the administration could
how we go forward with that. CEO

1555
02:40:04,960 --> 02:40:12,560
Simpson. [clears throat]
>> Uh we will coordinate between Mr. RDE

1556
02:40:09,600 --> 02:40:16,880
and members of council for a date and we
will do that over email. Once we have

1557
02:40:15,040 --> 02:40:21,439
consensus, we'll schedule it. That works
for you. Mr. Thank you.

1558
02:40:19,439 --> 02:40:26,000
» One question have it. Would uh admin
like a motion uh to direct

1559
02:40:23,520 --> 02:40:28,960
administration to arrange a
demonstration?

1560
02:40:27,280 --> 02:40:32,240
» Certainly.
>> Okay. Councelor Humphrey, would you like

1561
02:40:30,240 --> 02:40:37,439
to make a motion in that regard?
>> Yes. I'd like to make a motion that we

1562
02:40:34,399 --> 02:40:42,000
have administration set up with uh Mr.
route for a demonstration for council.

1563
02:40:40,319 --> 02:40:46,080
Okay.
Before we get to that motion, officially

1564
02:40:44,080 --> 02:40:48,479
placing it on the floor, I'll go to
councelor Surmach.

1565
02:40:47,520 --> 02:40:51,920
» Well, [clears throat] I have a question
on wobbly is not on this motion.

1566
02:40:50,720 --> 02:40:54,080
» Yeah, we don't have an official motion
on the floor at this time, but please go

1567
02:40:53,359 --> 02:41:01,280
ahead, councelor.
>> Okay. Can you explain your wobblies now?

1568
02:40:57,280 --> 02:41:05,680
I see a wobbly is a 12 or a 15 tire
trailer that goes behind a tractor

1569
02:41:03,200 --> 02:41:11,040
that's pulled down a road that's getting
repaired. What kind of wobbler are you

1570
02:41:08,399 --> 02:41:16,319
talking goes on the back of a grater?
>> It's the same. It's the same. It's a

1571
02:41:13,807 --> 02:41:21,359
[snorts] It's got two sets of tires on
it. I don't know what it'd be 12 10 ft

1572
02:41:18,880 --> 02:41:25,840
12 ft long and it's just controlled by
the ripper uh attachment on the grater.

1573
02:41:23,680 --> 02:41:31,280
So, it just lifts up and lifts down.
It's it's for paving is what it's used

1574
02:41:28,880 --> 02:41:36,000
for. Like on on any paving job, you'll
see a bunch of them. The box pavers or

1575
02:41:33,680 --> 02:41:41,040
the box packers, it's the same scenario.
It's just got two two sets of wheels on

1576
02:41:39,040 --> 02:41:44,960
it and then it just lifts up and comes
down.

1577
02:41:42,160 --> 02:41:51,359
» Yeah. Cuz the other ones that the county
used to use is you fill it with full of

1578
02:41:49,359 --> 02:41:53,920
water to get the weight, right?
>> And then it's towed behind the tractor.

1579
02:41:53,600 --> 02:42:00,640
» Yeah.
>> For shoulder poles and repacking roads

1580
02:41:56,880 --> 02:42:02,960
and narrowing roads up from a five pass
to a four pass.

1581
02:42:02,000 --> 02:42:07,359
» Yeah.
>> Yeah. And that's where the the

1582
02:42:04,800 --> 02:42:12,160
difference between packers. Um, and I
don't know why it's moved this way now,

1583
02:42:09,920 --> 02:42:17,439
but for building roads, you need a
sheepfoot packer. That's what drives the

1584
02:42:15,520 --> 02:42:19,920
material in. And it's the ones that have
the squares on them

1585
02:42:18,720 --> 02:42:25,840
» on that buggy.
>> Yeah. And then now we using steel drum

1586
02:42:22,880 --> 02:42:31,600
or tires to pack gravel roads. And I
don't know why that's happened, but you

1587
02:42:29,359 --> 02:42:36,479
see it everywhere. It it it's they're
good for sealing off the last little bit

1588
02:42:33,760 --> 02:42:41,200
for paving for sure, but for building a
road, you're not getting or getting a

1589
02:42:39,120 --> 02:42:45,200
compaction, you're not getting it with a
round tire. You can't. It's just not

1590
02:42:43,600 --> 02:42:49,120
there.
But we think because it looks nice after

1591
02:42:47,040 --> 02:42:54,800
a pass. Oh jeez, that's fact. Well, you
go and put your finger into the into

1592
02:42:51,200 --> 02:43:00,560
that uh gravel and it's still just as
loose an inch underneath it. So, it it

1593
02:42:57,520 --> 02:43:04,880
hasn't done anything. It's our base. We
need to focus on getting our base of

1594
02:43:02,399 --> 02:43:10,720
that road hard and then the gravel is
just the icing on the cake.

1595
02:43:08,880 --> 02:43:17,680
» So, does that mean that we have to take
the gravel off to one side and repack

1596
02:43:14,319 --> 02:43:20,479
our road base and then put our gravel
back?

1597
02:43:18,240 --> 02:43:25,520
» 100%. That's what we're doing. Every
time we blade the road with the

1598
02:43:22,960 --> 02:43:30,560
moleboard roll back, we're driving that
rock into our base. Every time we pick

1599
02:43:28,000 --> 02:43:35,359
that gravel up into a wind row, we have
drove some of that material into our

1600
02:43:33,040 --> 02:43:39,840
base. Every time we blade it, we're
doing that 100%.

1601
02:43:37,760 --> 02:43:42,240
Yeah. And then we put the gravel back so
we have something to blade the next

1602
02:43:41,359 --> 02:43:46,720
time.
>> And then the water can run through the

1603
02:43:43,920 --> 02:43:54,240
grains
and goes. Yeah. Where where we forget is

1604
02:43:50,479 --> 02:44:00,000
uh like a two or three day gentle rain
softens even the hardest road up a

1605
02:43:56,800 --> 02:44:04,399
gravel road because it's it's you you
get a hard piece of clay that you can't

1606
02:44:01,760 --> 02:44:11,200
even touch and you put it in the water
in 15 minutes it starts to soften up. So

1607
02:44:08,160 --> 02:44:15,439
that's the worst kind of rains we can
have for a gravel road, but it's the

1608
02:44:13,200 --> 02:44:20,880
best rains we can have for our crops
because it's going into our ground. But

1609
02:44:17,920 --> 02:44:25,439
it it slowly starts to loosen our base
up and then the heavier the traffic, the

1610
02:44:23,840 --> 02:44:30,000
more it'll move.
>> Yeah. It's it's you try and seal that

1611
02:44:28,080 --> 02:44:34,960
base off as tight and hard as you can
get it, but there's still things that

1612
02:44:31,600 --> 02:44:39,680
make a gravel road loose, and that's a
four day rain, a a 2 inch

1613
02:44:37,840 --> 02:44:43,680
rain in 10 minutes. That's where it
saves it because we get rid of our

1614
02:44:41,200 --> 02:44:48,080
curbs. The water hits our base, takes
off, gone, nothing happens.

1615
02:44:46,160 --> 02:44:50,720
» Yeah,
>> counselor

1616
02:44:49,840 --> 02:44:57,120
» that go ahead.
>> Yeah. And u just for administration and

1617
02:44:53,520 --> 02:45:00,720
yourself, rude. Um I do have a road
picked out for you guys. So

1618
02:44:59,680 --> 02:45:04,240
» Okay.
>> Thank you.

1619
02:45:01,520 --> 02:45:06,960
» Thank you, councelor Levin. Um, so
officially we'll have a motion on the

1620
02:45:05,600 --> 02:45:13,279
floor from councelor Humphrey to direct
administration to arrange a

1621
02:45:09,760 --> 02:45:16,960
uh demonstration with Don Rude and
presentation to council as a

1622
02:45:15,359 --> 02:45:21,120
demonstration.
Is there any more clarification on that

1623
02:45:18,800 --> 02:45:25,200
motion? Seeing none, I'll call question.
All those in favor?

1624
02:45:23,200 --> 02:45:29,120
Motion [snorts] has passed.
Is there any more discussion on this

1625
02:45:26,640 --> 02:45:33,359
item? I feel that there's still um
Director Ben Kirk, please go ahead.

1626
02:45:31,279 --> 02:45:37,279
» Oh. Um you'd would you still like the
number for the cost of a one foot pass

1627
02:45:36,399 --> 02:45:42,000
for
>> the minimum recommended rates from uh

1628
02:45:39,279 --> 02:45:44,640
for glyate if that's available for at
minimum recommended rates for total

1629
02:45:44,000 --> 02:45:49,520
control
>> for sure. So we had done a tank mix of

1630
02:45:47,600 --> 02:45:52,560
240 and glyphosate just as that was the
feedback from other municipalities that

1631
02:45:51,040 --> 02:45:58,560
that was the most effective for a
non-residual product. Um and it was

1632
02:45:55,279 --> 02:46:04,720
around $11 per kilometer for a one foot
pass and that was for both sides. um of

1633
02:46:01,520 --> 02:46:08,800
the road of a kilometer of road.
>> Okay. And was there a rate included on

1634
02:46:06,960 --> 02:46:11,760
how much glycape per acre or is there
any kind of

1635
02:46:09,520 --> 02:46:17,760
» I don't have that on me but we would use
a recommended rate that is effective um

1636
02:46:16,000 --> 02:46:23,040
for that purpose.
>> So $11 for the herbicide per kilometer

1637
02:46:22,000 --> 02:46:25,920
» for both sides.
>> Yep.

1638
02:46:23,439 --> 02:46:28,560
» Okay. I feel that there's still more
discussion to be had on road

1639
02:46:27,279 --> 02:46:31,359
maintenance. So I'd hate to make the
motion to accept it for information. I

1640
02:46:30,240 --> 02:46:34,880
believe that this item could be
postponed to a future regular council

1641
02:46:32,880 --> 02:46:39,040
meeting and uh there may be additional
information that comes out of after the

1642
02:46:36,319 --> 02:46:44,640
demonstration with Mr. RDE.
That's my thoughts on this agenda item

1643
02:46:40,960 --> 02:46:49,279
here today. But uh Deputy Eve, go ahead.
>> Just quickly, would I just want to

1644
02:46:46,160 --> 02:46:52,160
clarify was that just for chemical or is
that including operator and

1645
02:46:50,640 --> 02:46:53,279
» Sorry, that includes operator.
>> Okay.

1646
02:46:52,479 --> 02:46:56,279
» Y thank you.
>> Yeah.

1647
02:46:57,920 --> 02:47:05,279
» Okay. I'll move that if there's no
further discussion, I'll move that this

1648
02:47:00,720 --> 02:47:09,760
uh agenda item be postponed to a feature
council meeting.

1649
02:47:07,520 --> 02:47:15,760
Deputy Eve, go ahead.
>> Sorry, Ree. Is there maybe uh a more

1650
02:47:12,880 --> 02:47:20,080
detailed motion that we need to make?
Just

1651
02:47:17,439 --> 02:47:25,520
I still feel like the uh the use of the
water truck

1652
02:47:22,560 --> 02:47:28,240
in problem areas like we I think we've
still kind of missed the the mark on

1653
02:47:27,120 --> 02:47:34,160
that.
Is there more detailed motion that could

1654
02:47:31,120 --> 02:47:36,960
be made for more of a cost analysis for
savings on that?

1655
02:47:35,439 --> 02:47:39,760
» Absolutely. I totally agree. I think
that there is a more direct motion that

1656
02:47:38,640 --> 02:47:45,200
could be brought forward. I was just
thinking that uh after the presentation

1657
02:47:42,000 --> 02:47:49,760
for Mr. rude in the field to give a a
presentation or a demonstration to

1658
02:47:47,040 --> 02:47:55,920
council. There may be an opportunity to
have a very uh much more accurate motion

1659
02:47:53,680 --> 02:47:59,359
reflecting what council's desires on
behalf of the community and the

1660
02:47:57,040 --> 02:48:03,600
residents to bring forward. So that's my
intention is to just postpone this item,

1661
02:48:01,680 --> 02:48:07,439
have that presentation, council can have
a discussion and bring forward a a uh

1662
02:48:06,080 --> 02:48:12,720
properly worded motion to direct
administration if that's okay. So, I've

1663
02:48:11,840 --> 02:48:17,840
placed a motion [clears throat] on the
floor to postpone this agenda item until

1664
02:48:15,120 --> 02:48:20,319
a to a future regular council meeting.
With that being said, I see no further

1665
02:48:19,200 --> 02:48:24,319
discussion. I'll call the question. All
those in favor,

1666
02:48:22,319 --> 02:48:28,880
that motion is supported by council.
Thank you again for the time on behalf

1667
02:48:26,479 --> 02:48:31,840
for from administration and Mr. RDE. Uh,
please go ahead if you have a final

1668
02:48:30,080 --> 02:48:37,040
comment or remark.
>> I would just like to thank you guys for

1669
02:48:33,840 --> 02:48:42,960
for letting me come and speak today. Um,
I'm very passionate about this because

1670
02:48:39,040 --> 02:48:49,200
we're all in the same boat and my goal
at the end of the day is is all of us

1671
02:48:45,600 --> 02:48:54,560
learning um more about our roads and
then we can start defending what we're

1672
02:48:51,760 --> 02:49:02,479
doing to the residents. And the ultimate
goal is to start educating the residents

1673
02:48:58,399 --> 02:49:06,399
on how we maintain our roads. And that's
never been done before because

1674
02:49:04,000 --> 02:49:11,200
everybody's done it their own way and
we've all kind of sat there and went,

1675
02:49:08,080 --> 02:49:16,160
"Hm, how do we maintain this?" So, by by
you guys coming out and and and baby

1676
02:49:13,920 --> 02:49:22,640
stepping, just learning what's what's
happening on the roads, I I thank you

1677
02:49:18,960 --> 02:49:29,600
very much for that. Um it's it's a step
in the right direction to build that

1678
02:49:25,040 --> 02:49:34,960
team. Um and us everybody learning. Uh
there's no there's no ego. It's it's

1679
02:49:32,160 --> 02:49:38,800
it's just we've all been told and taught
different ways over the years and I'm

1680
02:49:36,640 --> 02:49:44,240
just trying to bring that system
together where we all support each other

1681
02:49:40,960 --> 02:49:48,319
and and we can onwards and upwards the
sky's the limit. So thank you for having

1682
02:49:46,399 --> 02:49:52,479
me today. I appreciate that.
>> We appreciate your time. Thank you very

1683
02:49:49,600 --> 02:49:56,960
much. Moving on in our agenda and seems
we have uh the directors in place in

1684
02:49:55,680 --> 02:50:02,160
council chambers, could we move into
item 7.1.1

1685
02:49:59,680 --> 02:50:06,560
um if that would uh
be appropriate with administration at

1686
02:50:03,920 --> 02:50:10,960
this time. It uh it's item 7.1.1 is
regarding the Caroline four-way stop. It

1687
02:50:09,120 --> 02:50:15,040
is on page 84 of today's agenda and Mr.
Ho, the floor is yours.

1688
02:50:12,720 --> 02:50:19,600
» Thank you. Uh good morning again,
council. So re NorCa requested a

1689
02:50:17,760 --> 02:50:23,760
four-way stop intersection in Caroline
be added to the council's agenda and can

1690
02:50:21,760 --> 02:50:27,680
provide further context and comments
regarding this item. Uh administration

1691
02:50:26,080 --> 02:50:32,880
will just give a quick background
introduction here and leave it vivid for

1692
02:50:30,080 --> 02:50:37,920
council's discussion. So the original
inquiry stems from concerns regarding

1693
02:50:35,600 --> 02:50:42,720
noise generated by heavy haul trucks
during acceleration and the use of

1694
02:50:39,760 --> 02:50:45,439
engine brakes as well as the traffic
congestion at this intersection.

1695
02:50:44,973 --> 02:50:51,760
» [gasps]
>> The intersection of concerns is at 50

1696
02:50:49,120 --> 02:50:55,760
street and high 54 as shown in the
attached image.

1697
02:50:53,760 --> 02:51:00,800
Traffic count data for this intersection
is available on AT's website and has

1698
02:50:58,479 --> 02:51:05,439
been attached for the reference. The
data includes annual average daily

1699
02:51:02,960 --> 02:51:11,840
traffic, average summer daily traffic as
well as morning and afternoon's

1700
02:51:08,800 --> 02:51:15,840
highest hour traffic estimates.
administration compared the annual

1701
02:51:13,520 --> 02:51:22,720
average daily traffic data for the
intersection between year 2012 and year

1702
02:51:19,200 --> 02:51:26,640
2025 to identify traffic trends and the
results are summarized in the table in

1703
02:51:24,399 --> 02:51:31,600
the agenda item.
Administration also contacted the

1704
02:51:28,640 --> 02:51:37,120
Alberta transportation e and economic
economic corridor staff to inquiry

1705
02:51:34,399 --> 02:51:42,479
whether there any previous traffic
studies or analysis at this

1706
02:51:39,279 --> 02:51:47,120
intersection. The TCA staff has
circulated the inquiry back to the Red

1707
02:51:44,720 --> 02:51:52,319
Dear office to identify any historic
information. However, to date, there's

1708
02:51:49,920 --> 02:51:58,000
no relevant information have been
located so far. With that, I'll open the

1709
02:51:55,439 --> 02:52:01,600
floor to council for any disc discussion
or direction to administration.

1710
02:52:00,160 --> 02:52:05,279
» Thank you, Mr. H, for the information
and presenting that to council.

1711
02:52:03,120 --> 02:52:10,160
Councelor McCauley, go ahead. Just so
I'm just reading this. It looks like

1712
02:52:07,040 --> 02:52:13,600
2012. Like it's a I haven't read read a
traffic map before. So looking at this

1713
02:52:11,680 --> 02:52:18,160
initially I was like this looks like a
crazy puzzle. I am lost. But just it it

1714
02:52:16,319 --> 02:52:23,200
looks like traffic counts are somewhat
similar between the two. Like it's if

1715
02:52:20,960 --> 02:52:27,520
anything even the 2012 counts depending
on what direction are higher than the

1716
02:52:24,880 --> 02:52:33,359
2025 counts.
Um

1717
02:52:29,200 --> 02:52:38,040
it's yeah interesting. Thank you.
Is there any other discussion on this

1718
02:52:35,040 --> 02:52:38,040
item?

1719
02:52:39,760 --> 02:52:46,240
» Um, councelor Le, go ahead.
>> Okay. And, um, just in case I missed

1720
02:52:45,120 --> 02:52:50,399
something along the way, which wouldn't
be the first time, you requested the

1721
02:52:48,080 --> 02:52:55,840
four-way stop again. For what reason?
>> Okay. I'll give a little bit background.

1722
02:52:52,240 --> 02:52:59,120
Um, often in the hamlet of Caroline,
it's actually I recognize that it's the

1723
02:52:57,359 --> 02:53:01,520
only hamlet that has a four-way stop in
the middle of it, Lesleyville. you get

1724
02:53:00,319 --> 02:53:05,040
to drive right through at a reduced
speed to 30 km an hour.

1725
02:53:03,439 --> 02:53:09,520
» Many of our other hamlets have no stop
signs. Another community just to the

1726
02:53:07,040 --> 02:53:14,240
east, Spruce View, has no stop sign
through there. Um, what I've observed

1727
02:53:12,000 --> 02:53:18,479
though as well, the speed limit is 50 km
an hour on Main Street. So, when

1728
02:53:16,880 --> 02:53:21,439
community members or visitors to
community park on the side of Main

1729
02:53:19,840 --> 02:53:26,479
Street, uh, they are often passed with
vehicles doing 50 km an hour, um, does

1730
02:53:25,120 --> 02:53:30,720
create some concern when you open your
door and you have a vehicle go by you at

1731
02:53:27,920 --> 02:53:33,920
50. um the amount of dust when the
vehicles come in. There's a lot of

1732
02:53:32,000 --> 02:53:39,040
industry traffic, logging trucks, tank
trucks. When they stop at that stop

1733
02:53:35,680 --> 02:53:41,680
sign, there's often Jake brakes, engine
noise [clears throat] from them

1734
02:53:39,760 --> 02:53:47,680
stopping, creates a significant amount
of traffic backlog, dust, and then they

1735
02:53:44,880 --> 02:53:50,319
all have to accelerate again. So again,
creates that additional engine noise for

1736
02:53:49,120 --> 02:53:55,520
the community and the residents and the
hamlet of Caroline. So what I've asked

1737
02:53:53,279 --> 02:54:00,000
is to have this brought forward just to
really that uh direct administration to

1738
02:53:57,760 --> 02:54:04,080
write a letter to request a review as
that is a provincial intersection. Um

1739
02:54:02,399 --> 02:54:07,680
just to have a review and the potential
impacts of what that may look like with

1740
02:54:05,600 --> 02:54:10,880
a two-way stop and reducing the speed
limit to 30 km an hour whether the you

1741
02:54:09,920 --> 02:54:13,760
know the good, the bad, and the
otherwise what that might look like. So

1742
02:54:12,560 --> 02:54:17,760
that's the intention of having this
brought forward here today in the agenda

1743
02:54:15,279 --> 02:54:23,760
is for the to better serve the residents
of Clearwater County. Um even for

1744
02:54:21,200 --> 02:54:29,439
pedestrians uh there are pedestrian
crosswalks but again the speed limit is

1745
02:54:25,439 --> 02:54:32,319
50 km an hour. So
>> if there's any more question

1746
02:54:30,560 --> 02:54:37,600
» No thank you. Yeah I I can see where
you're saying now that's a huge safety

1747
02:54:34,240 --> 02:54:40,000
issue and yeah absolutely no sounds
good. Thank you.

1748
02:54:38,399 --> 02:54:43,040
» And uh historically there was no
four-way stop there. I believe that's

1749
02:54:41,520 --> 02:54:45,680
four-way stop has been in place for
roughly 20 years, but at one point in

1750
02:54:44,399 --> 02:54:50,560
time it was a two-way stop. You could
drive straight through Caroline, but um

1751
02:54:48,240 --> 02:54:54,000
there was circumstances, I believe, that
happened to get a four-way stop there.

1752
02:54:52,160 --> 02:54:56,479
But at this point in time, I'm just
requesting a review to see if there's a

1753
02:54:55,439 --> 02:55:00,080
better alternative than having a
four-way stop. And maybe that is still

1754
02:54:57,920 --> 02:55:05,439
currently the best alternative or option
for the community. So, with that all

1755
02:55:03,040 --> 02:55:10,080
said, I'll move that council direct
administration to request a review of

1756
02:55:07,120 --> 02:55:12,880
the four-way stop and care from the
Alberta Transportation Economic

1757
02:55:11,520 --> 02:55:16,279
Corridors Department from with the
province of Alberta.

1758
02:55:18,240 --> 02:55:29,520
Council Mr. Director Magnus, go ahead.
Um would you like to would you like us

1759
02:55:25,760 --> 02:55:36,240
to um in the letter itself uh maybe
provide some suggestions to them to in

1760
02:55:32,720 --> 02:55:40,880
terms of what we would like to see in in
uh in regards to that four-way stop?

1761
02:55:38,479 --> 02:55:45,200
Maybe like specifically can we go back
to a two-way? Can we ask for engine

1762
02:55:43,040 --> 02:55:49,120
retarder brakes and and minimize the
speed to 30 kil kilometers an hour?

1763
02:55:47,760 --> 02:55:52,479
» You know, thank you very much for the
suggestion. uh Director Magnus if it was

1764
02:55:51,040 --> 02:55:56,080
what that could potentially look like if
the speed limit was reduced to 30 km an

1765
02:55:54,399 --> 02:55:59,120
hour or a two-way stop and speed
indicators on each side of the hamlet

1766
02:55:57,680 --> 02:56:06,000
that would show people coming into the
community of Caroline that they are uh I

1767
02:56:01,760 --> 02:56:11,439
find that those are fairly um
there are visual signal to traffic

1768
02:56:08,960 --> 02:56:14,560
coming in when they're flashing. So if
there was maybe speed indicators on each

1769
02:56:13,359 --> 02:56:20,160
side of the helmet
>> and the reason as that I know we were

1770
02:56:16,560 --> 02:56:25,439
very successful at the highway 22 and 54
and and we specifically asked for

1771
02:56:22,399 --> 02:56:29,920
certain things and at your direction
council at the day and we were

1772
02:56:26,960 --> 02:56:35,401
successful at that time too. So I'm just
thinking if we maybe just poke the bear

1773
02:56:33,520 --> 02:56:38,720
a little bit in terms of providing
[snorts] them with some suggestions.

1774
02:56:37,279 --> 02:56:41,359
» Excellent. Thank you. Your memory serves
very well. That was a few years ago. It

1775
02:56:39,920 --> 02:56:44,319
took I think it was, if I recall, it was
about 8 months to get that intersection

1776
02:56:43,120 --> 02:56:47,359
to get a flashing lights.
>> Got the flashing lights and the uh

1777
02:56:46,399 --> 02:56:49,520
rumble strips.
>> Yes.

1778
02:56:47,760 --> 02:56:55,200
» Yep. For that intersection.
>> So maybe at this time what I'll take

1779
02:56:51,120 --> 02:57:00,240
we'll uh we could table this item. I'll
draft an appropriate motion for

1780
02:56:56,640 --> 02:57:04,399
consideration later on in the um I I'll
withdraw the motion that I proposed.

1781
02:57:02,399 --> 02:57:08,479
I'll take uh I propose that we table
this item. I don't have the draft

1782
02:57:07,040 --> 02:57:13,680
wording appropriate at this point in
time for that motion. As you've

1783
02:57:11,040 --> 02:57:17,680
indicated, Mr. Magnus, with that, all
the key points that should be in that

1784
02:57:14,880 --> 02:57:22,880
motion to the province. So, I'll move
that we table item 7.1.1 until later in

1785
02:57:20,479 --> 02:57:25,040
today's agenda.
Seeing no discussion, I'll call the

1786
02:57:24,080 --> 02:57:30,520
question. All those in favor of
tableabling this item. Motion is

1787
02:57:27,120 --> 02:57:30,520
supported by councel.

1788
02:57:32,160 --> 02:57:38,920
At this time, I think we're going to
take a 5m minute recess and we'll be

1789
02:57:35,520 --> 02:57:38,920
back at 11:45.

1790
03:08:52,640 --> 03:08:58,399
Welcome back everybody to the Clearwater
County Regular Council meeting for

1791
03:08:55,920 --> 03:09:02,479
September 8th, 2026.
We're going to go back in our agenda to

1792
03:09:00,080 --> 03:09:07,920
item uh 6.1 under bylaws. It is first
reading of bylaw number 26104

1793
03:09:05,520 --> 03:09:11,840
for application number 20/26
to amend the land use bylaw is on page

1794
03:09:09,680 --> 03:09:14,800
29 of the agenda. And I'd like to invite
Mr. Bisson to present this item to

1795
03:09:13,680 --> 03:09:19,680
council.
>> Thank you uh Reeve. Good morning,

1796
03:09:16,399 --> 03:09:25,600
council. Uh Darlene McMillan along with
uh Chad and Jasmine Thompson hold titled

1797
03:09:22,080 --> 03:09:31,040
to the Southeast 8397 containing 161
acres. Uh the subject land is located

1798
03:09:28,399 --> 03:09:35,760
approximately 3 km southwest of the town
of Rocky Mountainhouse. The land owners

1799
03:09:33,359 --> 03:09:40,880
have made application to redesate uh
8.91 acres of the subject property from

1800
03:09:39,120 --> 03:09:45,439
the agriculture district to the
industrial district. If approved, the uh

1801
03:09:43,920 --> 03:09:52,479
total amount of land that would be
designated industrial uh within the

1802
03:09:48,640 --> 03:09:58,000
quarter would increase to 13.91 acres as
5 acres was previously redesated by

1803
03:09:55,359 --> 03:10:03,279
council in 2005.
Uh the proposed 8.91 acres to be

1804
03:10:00,640 --> 03:10:08,240
redesated is in the uh northeast corner
of the quarter section. The majority of

1805
03:10:05,439 --> 03:10:14,000
the land to be redesated is cleared flat
uh land containing uh a gravel access

1806
03:10:11,439 --> 03:10:18,880
and parking lot. Uh the area to be
redesated also contains an industrial

1807
03:10:16,399 --> 03:10:24,479
building and a coverall building. Uh the
western portion of the uh of the subject

1808
03:10:21,359 --> 03:10:29,600
lands uh to be redesated appear to be
used for outdoor storage. Uh the

1809
03:10:27,439 --> 03:10:33,760
application came about uh when it was
realized that the business had been

1810
03:10:31,200 --> 03:10:37,760
operating without development approval
and uh it was determined that not all of

1811
03:10:36,160 --> 03:10:43,040
the property was designated
appropriately. It is the uh current uh

1812
03:10:40,880 --> 03:10:47,359
current land owner's intent to redesate
the rest of the land that the business

1813
03:10:45,120 --> 03:10:53,359
is operating on to the appropriate land
use district. Uh the original 5 acres

1814
03:10:50,240 --> 03:10:58,640
was uh redesated in 2005 to allow for
the operation of a plumbing and uh gas

1815
03:10:56,240 --> 03:11:04,240
business to operate from the property.
Should the redesation be successful,

1816
03:11:01,279 --> 03:11:09,040
medium industrial operations are listed
as permitted uses while heavy industrial

1817
03:11:06,640 --> 03:11:13,600
and outdoor storage is listed as
discretionary within that district. The

1818
03:11:11,520 --> 03:11:19,120
balance of the quarter section is mainly
flat cleared farmland. Uh the land is

1819
03:11:16,479 --> 03:11:23,040
heavily treated along the uh north,
east, and south property boundaries.

1820
03:11:21,279 --> 03:11:27,439
There appears to be some lower uh
wetland in the southern portion of the

1821
03:11:25,120 --> 03:11:31,600
quarter and a creek does flow through
the quarter section creating a natural

1822
03:11:29,439 --> 03:11:35,600
divide between the east and west
portions of the quarter. There's a

1823
03:11:33,439 --> 03:11:39,920
farmard uh including a residence and
farm structures located in the east

1824
03:11:37,439 --> 03:11:43,920
central portion of the quarter. A second
residential yard site including

1825
03:11:41,840 --> 03:11:48,080
residence is located in the northwest
corner of the quarter. And there is some

1826
03:11:46,080 --> 03:11:53,200
oil and gas facilities located in the
southwest corner of the quarter. Access

1827
03:11:50,720 --> 03:11:59,040
is available to this quarter section by
a county maintained which uh uh goes

1828
03:11:56,720 --> 03:12:03,760
into the quarter approximately uh a
third of the way uh up the quarter

1829
03:12:01,680 --> 03:12:07,439
section along the east side and that is
Range Road 7-4.

1830
03:12:05,920 --> 03:12:12,960
surrounding land uses are mainly
agricultural with a few residential

1831
03:12:09,439 --> 03:12:17,760
parcels. If there are no uh uh questions
about the policies that are before you

1832
03:12:15,359 --> 03:12:22,240
council's not looking for any uh
additional information, I'll skip right

1833
03:12:19,439 --> 03:12:25,920
to uh policy considerations.
>> Yes, please, Mr. Ren.

1834
03:12:23,439 --> 03:12:30,800
» Okay. Uh the proposed redesignation
request would result in a total of 13.91

1835
03:12:28,880 --> 03:12:35,200
acres of the quarter being designated
industrial. This would allow for the

1836
03:12:33,200 --> 03:12:40,319
legalization of the existing operation
that is uh uh already and continues uh

1837
03:12:38,399 --> 03:12:45,920
to expand its business within our
community which aligns with the MDP. Uh

1838
03:12:43,600 --> 03:12:51,680
the area to be redesated does impact
approximately 3 acres of agricultural

1839
03:12:48,720 --> 03:12:58,160
land that is currently and will continue
to be used uh uh will continue to be

1840
03:12:54,720 --> 03:13:02,160
grazed by the landowner horses. The MDP
outlines providing for a variety of

1841
03:12:59,920 --> 03:13:06,960
locations for industrial uses within our
county. And at this time, the applicants

1842
03:13:04,880 --> 03:13:11,520
are not proposing any changes to the
existing parcel boundaries, nor have

1843
03:13:09,359 --> 03:13:18,240
they applied to subdivide the proposed
redesated lands. And access is available

1844
03:13:14,880 --> 03:13:22,399
off a uh maintain county road. So it is
uh administration's uh recommendation

1845
03:13:20,479 --> 03:13:28,000
that council consider granting first
reading to bylaw 26-104

1846
03:13:25,680 --> 03:13:30,000
and proceed to a public hearing. Thank
you.

1847
03:13:28,640 --> 03:13:34,720
» Yeah, thank you Mr. Bon for that
presentation to council. Are there any

1848
03:13:31,920 --> 03:13:41,200
questions? Uh I do see a couple uh
council that one. Go ahead, please.

1849
03:13:36,880 --> 03:13:45,600
» Um with this uh addition of the 8
whatever acres there would the two

1850
03:13:44,419 --> 03:13:49,200
[clears throat] subdivisions be combined
into one large one?

1851
03:13:47,680 --> 03:13:53,200
or two separate ones.
>> So it there there is no subdivision

1852
03:13:51,439 --> 03:13:57,760
currently there. The five acres that's
outlined in yellow is is what's

1853
03:13:55,040 --> 03:14:00,239
currently just designated industrial. It
is not separate title.

1854
03:13:58,800 --> 03:14:03,760
» Oh, so this is this is the designation
of industrial.

1855
03:14:01,120 --> 03:14:07,359
» Yeah, we're just expanding the design.
>> Thank you.

1856
03:14:04,560 --> 03:14:12,000
» Thank you for the clarity.
>> Deputy Reef. Go ahead.

1857
03:14:09,439 --> 03:14:15,920
» Thank you. Uh Mr. Benson just uh with
regards to this last paragraph here you

1858
03:14:13,920 --> 03:14:21,680
say that there was there is 3 acres of
agricultural land within this proposal

1859
03:14:19,200 --> 03:14:25,120
uh what was the remainder of the land
that is also part of this proposal the

1860
03:14:23,439 --> 03:14:30,239
other five acres out of this eight would
it not have been agricultural land as

1861
03:14:27,680 --> 03:14:35,359
well? Uh yes, absolutely. It's
agricultural land. Uh my point on on it

1862
03:14:33,200 --> 03:14:41,840
was just simply that it's uh it's being
used specifically for grazing. Um and

1863
03:14:39,040 --> 03:14:47,439
within that 5 acres, uh some of it's
heavily treated as well. Uh which isn't

1864
03:14:44,720 --> 03:14:51,439
necessarily grazed. It was just the
point I was trying to make on that.

1865
03:14:49,520 --> 03:14:58,239
» I see.
to follow that up. Um,

1866
03:14:55,279 --> 03:15:06,960
is
a small or medium size trucking business

1867
03:15:03,920 --> 03:15:12,960
does it need to be industrial use or is
there not another commercial

1868
03:15:09,680 --> 03:15:18,080
rated district that it could become? you
know, certainly uh within the industrial

1869
03:15:15,279 --> 03:15:23,680
district, we felt that uh the it would
be best uh uh best to be redesated to

1870
03:15:20,960 --> 03:15:28,640
industrial. Uh there are certainly some
options within the egg district that

1871
03:15:25,520 --> 03:15:33,439
this could fit under as a use. Um
however, being that there was 5 acres of

1872
03:15:30,800 --> 03:15:38,399
the quarter already zoned industrial, we
felt that it uh it would make the most

1873
03:15:35,359 --> 03:15:43,680
sense to uh to redesate the additional
eight to to combine the rest of that

1874
03:15:40,479 --> 03:15:49,120
business operation. on industrial lands.
>> And the only reason I ask uh Mr. Bisson

1875
03:15:46,160 --> 03:15:56,319
is that on an industrial
property, we could have anything from

1876
03:15:53,279 --> 03:16:03,840
a cannabis production facility to a
casino to an automotive test track. Like

1877
03:16:00,080 --> 03:16:07,120
the there really is no restrictions
when we reszone these properties

1878
03:16:05,760 --> 03:16:12,000
industrial and I'm just not sure if
that's the appropriate designation.

1879
03:16:09,439 --> 03:16:15,439
» Okay. Thank you, Deputy Ree. I think
you're looking at my Are you looking at

1880
03:16:13,760 --> 03:16:21,520
my notes again? [laughter]
>> Yeah. No, that's okay. Just in alignment

1881
03:16:18,319 --> 03:16:24,479
and thinking, I believe. Um, councelor
Powell, go ahead.

1882
03:16:23,120 --> 03:16:29,040
» Um, so I do have a couple quick
questions. First off, do we know um when

1883
03:16:26,960 --> 03:16:34,399
these land owners
>> purchased this quarter section?

1884
03:16:31,600 --> 03:16:39,040
» Did they have it prior to 2005 when it
was zoned industrial or did they

1885
03:16:36,239 --> 03:16:44,560
purchase it after? I believe they this
land after um the business operation for

1886
03:16:42,160 --> 03:16:48,720
the uh current oil field service
business started in 2014 uh according to

1887
03:16:47,680 --> 03:16:50,880
the applicants.
>> Okay. So it was already zoned when they

1888
03:16:50,080 --> 03:16:57,279
purchased it. Correct.
>> That's correct.

1889
03:16:53,840 --> 03:17:04,319
» So maybe director Mazak can help me with
this and the right verb I need to use.

1890
03:17:00,800 --> 03:17:08,160
In a situation like this,
does it have to be industrial? Because

1891
03:17:05,920 --> 03:17:12,800
when I look underneath the egg and
discretionary use, there is the few

1892
03:17:10,640 --> 03:17:18,640
different ones that it could have been.
Um, we could have done. What about the

1893
03:17:14,479 --> 03:17:22,239
farm? I think it's farm subsidiary.
Does that not fall underneath this? Like

1894
03:17:20,560 --> 03:17:27,680
could this have not just gone straight
underneath that instead of opening up in

1895
03:17:24,800 --> 03:17:31,920
a like more
different zoning in different areas? I

1896
03:17:29,840 --> 03:17:34,880
mean to lessen the impacts on Eggland
and to keep this really simple for the

1897
03:17:33,600 --> 03:17:40,000
business owners who I did get to speak
with on the phone and they just want to

1898
03:17:36,239 --> 03:17:47,600
do whatever is best and easiest um for
this procedure um do you have any advice

1899
03:17:43,520 --> 03:17:54,720
or direction that you could give
>> uh through the reef uh to council

1900
03:17:52,239 --> 03:18:01,680
you have an existing uh designated land
as industrial and when we were looking

1901
03:17:58,080 --> 03:18:07,680
at different alternative land uses. Um,
this encompasses the uses that they're

1902
03:18:04,000 --> 03:18:11,680
currently proposing or actually using
the site for

1903
03:18:10,160 --> 03:18:18,239
to
redesate the industrial to another use

1904
03:18:15,520 --> 03:18:21,359
as well as this parcel to a different
use.

1905
03:18:19,760 --> 03:18:26,000
um
can be accommodated under the existing

1906
03:18:23,840 --> 03:18:32,080
industrial
land use zoning.

1907
03:18:29,200 --> 03:18:38,720
When you get to the public hearing, what
council has at their discretion without

1908
03:18:35,040 --> 03:18:45,680
having to revertise for anything,
council can make motions to remove the

1909
03:18:42,479 --> 03:18:54,399
other discretionary uses or permitted
uses as they choose to customize that

1910
03:18:49,680 --> 03:18:59,439
industrial use specific to that site.
And so that was the approach. We're

1911
03:18:57,040 --> 03:19:04,800
trying to be able to be flexible and
accommodate. We're not introducing a new

1912
03:19:01,760 --> 03:19:11,560
land use here and to change it from
industrial to others. Um, this is a more

1913
03:19:07,680 --> 03:19:11,560
of a housekeeping issue.

1914
03:19:14,640 --> 03:19:21,439
If we're to
um change the land use, we would have to

1915
03:19:19,920 --> 03:19:26,960
revertise
uh for a few more weeks to under the new

1916
03:19:24,640 --> 03:19:33,439
land use district.
Whereas if you take an existing land use

1917
03:19:29,520 --> 03:19:38,760
and you eliminate uses, you do not have
to revertise because you're making it

1918
03:19:35,439 --> 03:19:38,760
more restrictive.

1919
03:19:45,600 --> 03:19:52,720
One question, Mr. MAC
for the existing

1920
03:19:50,800 --> 03:19:59,359
industrial parcel and the mention of a
farm subsidiary business.

1921
03:19:56,319 --> 03:20:04,479
Um, would that five acres that's
designated industrial be able to be

1922
03:20:01,279 --> 03:20:11,840
zoned back to agricultural
or or appropriate residential like with

1923
03:20:07,920 --> 03:20:19,080
the designation not being industrial but
then have that ability to be able to use

1924
03:20:14,399 --> 03:20:19,080
that farm subsidiary business.

1925
03:20:20,479 --> 03:20:28,479
» Mr. this on
>> I I mean absolutely you could uh

1926
03:20:25,760 --> 03:20:33,120
designate the the five acres back to to
agriculture.

1927
03:20:30,080 --> 03:20:39,120
Um I I believe you would have to
technically go through a public hearing

1928
03:20:34,880 --> 03:20:42,560
to do that uh as well. So similar to to
the process that we're following now.

1929
03:20:41,359 --> 03:20:46,080
» Yeah. Yeah, it would just be instead of
creating industrial parcels, still have

1930
03:20:44,560 --> 03:20:49,920
the
egg zoning, but with the ability for the

1931
03:20:48,239 --> 03:20:54,640
operator to still continue with the
under farm subsidiary business.

1932
03:20:52,239 --> 03:20:58,880
» Yeah. I'm not sure how the the landowner
would feel about that. We didn't bring

1933
03:20:56,080 --> 03:21:03,439
in the land owner today uh ju just
simply because we for timing purposes we

1934
03:21:01,359 --> 03:21:08,640
weren't sure what time they would uh
they would be able to uh to get on the

1935
03:21:05,200 --> 03:21:13,760
agenda but uh uh it is something uh we
can certainly speak to her about as far

1936
03:21:10,479 --> 03:21:16,319
as she made the application to go to to
industrial

1937
03:21:15,520 --> 03:21:19,520
if
>> No, thank you very much. If if

1938
03:21:17,760 --> 03:21:22,960
administration or Miss Rristen if you
could explain

1939
03:21:21,279 --> 03:21:26,640
just for the viewing public end for
council if if it's if a property is

1940
03:21:25,120 --> 03:21:31,279
reszone to industrial then you have your
permitted uses then you have your list

1941
03:21:28,720 --> 03:21:35,040
of discretionary uses. So there will be
a public hearing for the to go from the

1942
03:21:33,600 --> 03:21:37,359
current zoning to industrial.
>> That's correct.

1943
03:21:36,080 --> 03:21:41,680
» What about the process when the
applicant wants to apply for a

1944
03:21:39,439 --> 03:21:44,399
discretionary use under that zoning?
What's that process and does it entail a

1945
03:21:43,600 --> 03:21:48,880
public hearing?
>> Sure. So, when it comes to a

1946
03:21:46,160 --> 03:21:54,560
discretionary use uh listed in the uh
industrial district, um someone could

1947
03:21:52,479 --> 03:21:59,200
apply, whoever owns this this property
could apply for one of those

1948
03:21:55,760 --> 03:22:03,200
discretionary uses. Uh the
administration would then uh send out a

1949
03:22:01,200 --> 03:22:09,520
referral letter to adjacent land owners
notifying them of what the proposed uh

1950
03:22:07,439 --> 03:22:14,080
application is, what that use is going
to be in the future. So, for instance,

1951
03:22:12,080 --> 03:22:18,319
if they they wanted to uh do an
automotive test tractor or cannabis

1952
03:22:15,920 --> 03:22:23,840
production facility, uh adjacent land
owners would be notified. They'd have 14

1953
03:22:20,640 --> 03:22:28,239
days to uh to to submit comments
[clears throat] to administration who

1954
03:22:25,760 --> 03:22:34,160
would present those uh those comments to
the mun municipal planning commission at

1955
03:22:31,359 --> 03:22:39,520
uh at the next upcoming planning
commission meeting.

1956
03:22:36,080 --> 03:22:43,439
» Okay. So for the application to apply
for discretionary use then there would

1957
03:22:41,040 --> 03:22:45,040
be no public hearing for the community
as a whole.

1958
03:22:44,080 --> 03:22:49,439
» That is correct.
>> And and and um [clears throat]

1959
03:22:49,920 --> 03:22:56,160
with the under discretionary uses for
industrial areas like deputy rea

1960
03:22:54,080 --> 03:23:02,560
mentioned there's automotive test track
cannabis production facilities casinos

1961
03:22:59,279 --> 03:23:06,560
data processing centers
funeral homes. So then there's no public

1962
03:23:05,359 --> 03:23:12,720
hearing. So you're having a public
hearing based on the application of the

1963
03:23:09,920 --> 03:23:16,160
business of the day,
but under discretionary uses, you could

1964
03:23:14,720 --> 03:23:19,279
alter that with only really having the
adjacent land owners notified, but not

1965
03:23:17,680 --> 03:23:24,399
the community as a whole.
>> Right. However, um land owners would be

1966
03:23:22,800 --> 03:23:28,319
notified depending on the decision of
the municipal planning commission if

1967
03:23:26,479 --> 03:23:33,439
they uh if they approved uh the
discretionary use. It would be adver ad

1968
03:23:30,800 --> 03:23:38,960
advertised in in local newspapers.
Again, it would uh it would be up to the

1969
03:23:35,520 --> 03:23:44,720
public to to watch for those approvals.
Um, and they would have the uh the right

1970
03:23:41,120 --> 03:23:50,160
to appeal uh said development approval
um at that point if they felt that they

1971
03:23:47,520 --> 03:23:54,880
were impacted,
>> but there would be uh the decision

1972
03:23:52,479 --> 03:23:59,120
wouldn't be on would not come back to
council through the municipal planning

1973
03:23:57,520 --> 03:24:03,600
commission. Director Mesa, please go
ahead.

1974
03:23:59,520 --> 03:24:07,200
» Yeah, through the Reeve. Um
provided the industrial land use is

1975
03:24:05,680 --> 03:24:11,840
approved,
the application would be submitted for a

1976
03:24:09,760 --> 03:24:19,600
development permit uh for a
discretionary use that would go to MPC.

1977
03:24:17,120 --> 03:24:27,359
It would be advertised. It would be
circulated to the adjacent land owners.

1978
03:24:23,359 --> 03:24:31,760
The opportunity for the public in that
circulation of adjacent land owners is

1979
03:24:30,000 --> 03:24:39,359
available through that circulation
process through the development permit.

1980
03:24:36,319 --> 03:24:45,680
MPC has the ability to either approve it
or not approve it.

1981
03:24:42,960 --> 03:24:51,680
But before it gets there, what you what
I was mentioning before is when you take

1982
03:24:48,720 --> 03:24:56,080
an industrial use and you eliminate some
of the uses,

1983
03:24:54,160 --> 03:25:04,319
those uses,
it would become an a DC industrial site

1984
03:25:00,800 --> 03:25:10,800
where you have restricted the uses so
that if you approved it as a DC

1985
03:25:07,760 --> 03:25:15,840
industrial site,
eliminating some of those uses, It's

1986
03:25:12,800 --> 03:25:19,520
still an industrial site, but they don't
have the opportunity to come in with an

1987
03:25:17,840 --> 03:25:25,120
application for a racetrack. They don't
have the

1988
03:25:22,000 --> 03:25:28,880
no with with it being eliminated as
discretionary or permitted at at

1989
03:25:27,359 --> 03:25:34,720
council's
decision making at the public hearing on

1990
03:25:31,520 --> 03:25:39,600
the land use for industrial.
It basically eliminates those

1991
03:25:37,359 --> 03:25:44,160
applications of ever coming forward to
MPC.

1992
03:25:41,520 --> 03:25:48,479
If you leave them on and you approve
just a general industrial land

1993
03:25:46,237 --> 03:25:54,800
[clears throat] use zoning,
then any application can come forward

1994
03:25:52,640 --> 03:25:59,239
with those permitted and discretionary
uses uh to MPC.

1995
03:25:59,439 --> 03:26:07,840
Thank you very much for that, Mr. Mayac.
My my my thoughts are not to to limit

1996
03:26:04,640 --> 03:26:11,359
any business, you know, or ventures of
community members that may have a desire

1997
03:26:09,279 --> 03:26:14,800
to to have what it is, but my thoughts
are to be able to have if you're having

1998
03:26:12,880 --> 03:26:19,920
a public hearing on based on today's
business that's being presented for the

1999
03:26:16,640 --> 03:26:23,680
reasonzoning it that it's often the
municipal planning commission doesn't

2000
03:26:21,600 --> 03:26:27,359
have the p it's not in the public eye as
much as as council as we're here live

2001
03:26:25,600 --> 03:26:32,880
streamed and recorded today. Municipal
planning commission meetings are not.

2002
03:26:29,600 --> 03:26:36,880
But uh so to have the my thoughts are to
be to give the community and the

2003
03:26:35,120 --> 03:26:41,840
residents opportunity to be able to have
that ability to be able to provide

2004
03:26:39,920 --> 03:26:47,359
supportive comments to a proposal in the
future or their concerns of a

2005
03:26:44,080 --> 03:26:50,479
development in the future where what I'm
seeing here is when it's reszoned the

2006
03:26:48,800 --> 03:26:54,640
discretionary uses are authorized by the
municipal planning commission. So any

2007
03:26:53,520 --> 03:26:59,359
this is really good discussion and thank
you very much for administration for the

2008
03:26:56,640 --> 03:27:04,239
understanding of council deputy grief.
Go ahead.

2009
03:27:00,000 --> 03:27:07,680
» Thanks R and thank you Mr. MAC. Um I I
do understand the approach you're

2010
03:27:05,279 --> 03:27:13,439
taking. Appreciate it. However, just to
expand on what the Reeve was saying for

2011
03:27:09,359 --> 03:27:18,239
the for the public viewing it it is a
real problem within municipal

2012
03:27:16,479 --> 03:27:24,960
governance.
the fact that the MPC does not include

2013
03:27:20,960 --> 03:27:29,840
council as a whole. So everyone believes
that these decisions are being made by

2014
03:27:26,560 --> 03:27:37,120
council through MPC. That's not true. So
there's some of us that are not

2015
03:27:34,640 --> 03:27:40,880
considered at all in those decisions and
they do affect the entire community. So

2016
03:27:39,200 --> 03:27:46,319
I think that's sort of the the point
here is just to

2017
03:27:43,439 --> 03:27:50,279
if we can avoid that then we're
representing the entire community

2018
03:27:53,680 --> 03:27:58,880
» at the municipal planning commission. So
after first reading this will be sent

2019
03:27:56,880 --> 03:28:01,439
out to if if it was supported by council
sent out to referral agencies which

2020
03:28:00,239 --> 03:28:05,439
would include the municipal planning
commission and the municipal planning

2021
03:28:03,279 --> 03:28:10,239
commission consists of three members of
council which is councelor Humphrey,

2022
03:28:07,600 --> 03:28:14,960
myself, councelor Powell and two members
of the public

2023
03:28:12,960 --> 03:28:19,680
and then that referral will be sent to
council for consideration. But yes, all

2024
03:28:16,560 --> 03:28:25,920
of council or five members of council,
some members of council do not get to do

2025
03:28:21,439 --> 03:28:30,880
that site visit to uh
physically see the application in the

2026
03:28:28,239 --> 03:28:33,920
field. Having said that, councelor
Powell, go ahead.

2027
03:28:32,319 --> 03:28:39,760
» I just have one more question for
director. Do you see any what would be

2028
03:28:36,800 --> 03:28:45,359
the negative impacts if you put this all
back to egg and ran it as a farm sub

2029
03:28:43,279 --> 03:28:48,680
business just under that designation?
What would be

2030
03:28:50,399 --> 03:29:01,920
» uh through the reef to revert the the
back to agg um the challenges would be

2031
03:28:58,319 --> 03:29:08,000
even greater for the applicant to
continue to utilize the site the way

2032
03:29:04,560 --> 03:29:13,120
they're have been using the site. Then
we would have the issue of well how do

2033
03:29:10,640 --> 03:29:17,760
you make this site work based on the
proposed and existing operations. they

2034
03:29:16,080 --> 03:29:22,840
would not be able to achieve that under
the agricultural land use zone

2035
03:29:22,880 --> 03:29:25,880
and

2036
03:29:25,920 --> 03:29:35,120
right now
the the flexibility of the industrial

2037
03:29:31,439 --> 03:29:41,520
district and I'm just want to reiterate
until the land use is approved in any

2038
03:29:39,520 --> 03:29:47,200
shape or form whether it's industrial
industrial DC minus all these permitted

2039
03:29:44,160 --> 03:29:54,239
and discretionary uses is that would
give council the the the authority to

2040
03:29:51,439 --> 03:30:00,560
regulate what actually happens on the
site. Ultimately, MPC would just be

2041
03:29:57,520 --> 03:30:08,880
restricted to allowing or reviewing
applications that meet with council's

2042
03:30:04,319 --> 03:30:15,840
direction in the DC bylaw or DC
industrial land use.

2043
03:30:12,239 --> 03:30:20,560
Um it's it's kind of like
You have a whole bunch of different uses

2044
03:30:18,080 --> 03:30:28,160
that you could have on the site and you
go casino, no [laughter]

2045
03:30:24,239 --> 03:30:34,239
racetrack, no. Any cannabis? No. And
that

2046
03:30:30,080 --> 03:30:39,840
land use district would just identify
the limited scope and uses. The

2047
03:30:37,279 --> 03:30:46,560
fundamental difference between a DC uh
industrial and an industrial is

2048
03:30:43,920 --> 03:30:50,720
the provisions that you put into your
bylaw.

2049
03:30:48,479 --> 03:30:56,640
Um whether you make it more restrictive,
but making it more restrictive,

2050
03:30:53,279 --> 03:31:01,960
they can appeal it. So there's no right
of an appeal based on the use

2051
03:31:02,319 --> 03:31:09,359
which is very powerful from the
perspective of don't expect anything

2052
03:31:06,160 --> 03:31:15,120
else other than what you allow under the
the direct control industrial.

2053
03:31:12,560 --> 03:31:18,880
It's the same use. It's just council
gives direction

2054
03:31:17,120 --> 03:31:22,720
uh and a motion to say we're going to
strike these permitted and discretionary

2055
03:31:20,800 --> 03:31:28,560
uses.
Um hopefully that helps. answer that

2056
03:31:26,239 --> 03:31:31,600
question.
>> Excellent discussion. I do know that

2057
03:31:29,920 --> 03:31:36,960
there's been many land use amendments
that have taken place in the past, but

2058
03:31:33,920 --> 03:31:40,399
uh to have that explained that clearly
and for the viewing public to understand

2059
03:31:38,560 --> 03:31:44,880
that the discretionary uses and the
impacts that they can potentially have.

2060
03:31:43,359 --> 03:31:47,439
Councelor Pal,
>> thank you for explaining that to me. I

2061
03:31:46,239 --> 03:31:52,800
did get a chance to speak with the
applicants and I know that they would

2062
03:31:48,880 --> 03:31:57,200
just like the most um efficient and easy
um application as possible. They're a

2063
03:31:54,960 --> 03:32:02,920
wellrespected business in the community
and have been for a long time and I know

2064
03:31:59,279 --> 03:32:02,920
they'd like to continue.

2065
03:32:05,040 --> 03:32:11,600
Okay. Thank you for that councelor P. Is
there any further discussion? If not or

2066
03:32:09,680 --> 03:32:15,359
does administration Mr. Pon do you have
any additional information on this item?

2067
03:32:13,520 --> 03:32:19,800
We'd be looking for a motion for
consideration of first reading on this

2068
03:32:16,800 --> 03:32:19,800
item.

2069
03:32:21,600 --> 03:32:27,439
Council sack, go ahead.
>> I will make that motion that council

2070
03:32:25,200 --> 03:32:33,600
consider granting first reading for by
line number 26104

2071
03:32:30,560 --> 03:32:38,000
and proceed to a public hearing.
>> Okay. Thank you for the motion council

2072
03:32:34,960 --> 03:32:40,800
surmac. Um we do have uh officially
place a motion on the floor from

2073
03:32:39,040 --> 03:32:45,359
councelor Serach that council consider
council grant first reading to bylaw

2074
03:32:43,040 --> 03:32:49,439
number 26104 and proceed to a public
hearing. That is a motion on the floor.

2075
03:32:47,680 --> 03:32:52,000
Seeing no discussion council surach do
you have any further comments? Nope.

2076
03:32:50,880 --> 03:32:57,279
Seeing no further discussion I'll call
the question. All those in favor and

2077
03:32:54,560 --> 03:33:00,880
that motion is supported by council. At
this point in time we're going to take a

2078
03:32:58,399 --> 03:33:04,840
recess until uh we'll return
approximately at uh 12:45.

2079
04:14:50,239 --> 04:14:59,359
Welcome back from our recess
uh to the regular council meeting for

2080
04:14:54,880 --> 04:15:04,000
September 8th, 2026. Moving into bylaws,
item 6.2.

2081
04:15:02,159 --> 04:15:06,640
And we are joined here today by our
chief and our deputy chief. And uh at

2082
04:15:05,600 --> 04:15:11,840
this point in time, I'll pass it floor
over to you to present uh this item

2083
04:15:10,399 --> 04:15:16,880
provide any additional information for
councils.

2084
04:15:14,239 --> 04:15:20,479
» Good afternoon, Reven Council. Um good
to see everyone again. I know we had uh

2085
04:15:18,800 --> 04:15:24,479
some good discussion on this item uh
before council at previous council

2086
04:15:22,000 --> 04:15:30,239
meetings. Uh we're back today for uh
third reading of bylaw

2087
04:15:27,199 --> 04:15:35,920
um 26102
fire rescue services bylaw. at uh first

2088
04:15:33,040 --> 04:15:41,520
and second reading on uh our July or
August 25th council meeting. Um we did

2089
04:15:38,640 --> 04:15:47,359
find uh one error in the bylaw that was
uh amended uh before council today and

2090
04:15:44,319 --> 04:15:51,920
that was a change to the uh nonfire
season dates of November 1st to April

2091
04:15:49,520 --> 04:15:57,359
30th to read November 1st to February
28th or 29th. Uh so that uh change has

2092
04:15:55,120 --> 04:16:02,560
been made and is attached in the redline
text um of the bylaw you see here today.

2093
04:16:00,720 --> 04:16:07,359
Uh resuming discussions from first and
second reading. Uh options in front of

2094
04:16:04,560 --> 04:16:11,520
council today are uh to direct uh
administration for further amendments.

2095
04:16:09,600 --> 04:16:16,399
Uh and staff recommendation would be
that council reviews bylaw 26102

2096
04:16:14,640 --> 04:16:21,279
fire rescue services bylaw complete with
amendments and grants third reading. Um

2097
04:16:19,439 --> 04:16:25,199
just to open the floor up to council and
discussion. Uh Chief Emerick is back

2098
04:16:22,880 --> 04:16:30,399
from a much needed vacation. So he's
here to provide me with some help uh

2099
04:16:27,520 --> 04:16:34,560
speaking to council. Um we had lots of
discussion about uh fire pits and

2100
04:16:32,880 --> 04:16:41,199
fireworks permitting at our last
meeting. So I did do some uh quick uh

2101
04:16:39,040 --> 04:16:47,680
research over last week and and this
weekend basically on the environment

2102
04:16:45,199 --> 04:16:52,960
around fireworks in Canada essentially.
Um, so since the adoption of the

2103
04:16:50,479 --> 04:16:56,479
National Fire Code 2019 Alberta edition,
so since 2019, there's been an increased

2104
04:16:55,199 --> 04:16:59,279
responsibility placed on local
authorities to regulate and control the

2105
04:16:57,920 --> 04:17:02,880
use of consumer fireworks in their
jurisdictions. Uh, with the Federal

2106
04:17:01,120 --> 04:17:06,319
Explosives Act continues to govern the
classification, manufacture, sale, and

2107
04:17:04,960 --> 04:17:09,680
distribution of fireworks.
Municipalities are expected to determine

2108
04:17:08,000 --> 04:17:14,000
when, where, and under what conditions
they may be locally used. So, just some

2109
04:17:12,159 --> 04:17:18,800
some information for councils. The the
National Explosives Act was never

2110
04:17:15,760 --> 04:17:22,080
intended to permit or not permit the use
of fireworks. It is a large act that

2111
04:17:20,479 --> 04:17:27,199
deals with everything explosives in
Canada is predominantly uh designed to

2112
04:17:25,600 --> 04:17:30,479
govern the manufacturer, sale and
distribution. A lot of crossber what

2113
04:17:28,960 --> 04:17:35,680
what is allowed to be in Canada? How is
it allowed to be stored and utilized

2114
04:17:32,399 --> 04:17:38,399
essentially um our review of the current
regulatory environment became apparent

2115
04:17:36,960 --> 04:17:41,279
that Clearwater County has a gap in its
ability to safely authorize and regulate

2116
04:17:39,920 --> 04:17:44,960
the use of fireworks. Without a local
bylaw and permit process, the county has

2117
04:17:43,120 --> 04:17:48,640
limited ability to establish fire safety
conditions, manage risks during periods

2118
04:17:47,120 --> 04:17:53,040
of elevated fire danger, or provide
clear direction to residents who wish to

2119
04:17:50,479 --> 04:17:56,479
use fireworks responsibly.
Um,

2120
04:17:54,560 --> 04:18:00,319
the proposed bylaw is to create
consistency between Clearwater County

2121
04:17:58,159 --> 04:18:03,439
and the Rocky Forest area or the forest
protection area of Alberta. Uh,

2122
04:18:02,080 --> 04:18:07,040
residents often live and work and
recreate throughout the region. Uh, they

2123
04:18:05,279 --> 04:18:10,800
don't necessarily spend all of their
time on one side of the border or the

2124
04:18:08,560 --> 04:18:14,720
other. Uh, some of our folks do live on
one side, some of our folks live outside

2125
04:18:12,640 --> 04:18:17,920
the FBA. We're intending to reduce
confusion around permitting

2126
04:18:16,000 --> 04:18:20,720
requirements, fireband restrictions, and
safe use of fireworks regardless of

2127
04:18:19,279 --> 04:18:24,880
where the residents are located within
our service area. The proposed bot is

2128
04:18:23,520 --> 04:18:28,399
not intended to promote increased
fireworks use. Rather, it provides

2129
04:18:26,399 --> 04:18:31,520
Clearwater County a clear regulatory
framework that will allow the county to

2130
04:18:29,920 --> 04:18:35,040
establish permit requirements and safe
conditions for fireworks display,

2131
04:18:33,279 --> 04:18:40,159
restrict and prohibit fireworks during
fire bands and periods of elevated risk.

2132
04:18:37,279 --> 04:18:44,479
Uh that one's an important one because
technically today when we put a fire ban

2133
04:18:41,920 --> 04:18:48,720
on that's not related to fireworks. Uh
because we don't have a fire uh we don't

2134
04:18:46,640 --> 04:18:53,040
have a a system to allow their use. We
don't have a system to restrict their

2135
04:18:50,000 --> 04:18:56,560
use. Um provide clear enforcement and
comp compliance and mechanisms and

2136
04:18:54,960 --> 04:19:00,000
improve public safety and reduce the
risk of wildfires and property damage.

2137
04:18:58,159 --> 04:19:03,359
So again, we did speak about this at the
last council meeting, but it's not just

2138
04:19:01,840 --> 04:19:07,600
about wildfire risk when it comes to
fireworks specifically in the FBA today.

2139
04:19:06,319 --> 04:19:11,680
Unless someone has written permission
from a forest officer, it illegal to

2140
04:19:09,760 --> 04:19:14,720
discharge fireworks in the FBA without
that written permission from a forest

2141
04:19:13,040 --> 04:19:18,640
officer. It is not granted very often
and not many people seek that

2142
04:19:16,239 --> 04:19:22,960
permission. Um [snorts]
but as it stands today, there is no

2143
04:19:20,560 --> 04:19:28,159
ability for us to restrict their use at
all uh outside the forest protection

2144
04:19:25,120 --> 04:19:31,760
area. Uh it is not our intention to
restrict their use beyond safe uh use

2145
04:19:30,839 --> 04:19:35,840
[snorts] of fireworks. There is
obviously safe ways to to discharge

2146
04:19:34,319 --> 04:19:40,960
fireworks in Clearwater County. We
intend to continue to allow that to take

2147
04:19:37,920 --> 04:19:47,760
place. Um, however, there are some some
competing uh issues when we come to sale

2148
04:19:43,760 --> 04:19:51,680
storage and today as if if a a a
business that is selling fireworks isn't

2149
04:19:49,680 --> 04:19:54,960
following the clear stipulations in the
explosives act on collecting information

2150
04:19:53,600 --> 04:19:59,199
on who's buying them and where they're
going to discharge them, they're still

2151
04:19:56,720 --> 04:20:05,680
discharging them illegally. Uh so there
is uh a lot of illegal use of fireworks

2152
04:20:01,359 --> 04:20:08,479
in Clearwater County today. Um
another thing that I wanted to bring up

2153
04:20:07,040 --> 04:20:13,760
before handing the floor back over to
council was around fire pits. We had

2154
04:20:10,880 --> 04:20:18,159
lots of discussion around fire pits. Uh
and through some research, the the

2155
04:20:16,399 --> 04:20:22,080
standard in Alberta, the industry
standard that most municipalities have

2156
04:20:20,000 --> 04:20:26,560
in their bylaws, including rural and
urban municipalities, is a maximum

2157
04:20:24,239 --> 04:20:31,600
diameter of 1 meter, a maximum wall
height of 60 cm, a maximum set back from

2158
04:20:29,439 --> 04:20:36,479
any constru uh combustible construction
of 3 m or flammable vegetation and a

2159
04:20:34,159 --> 04:20:41,359
spark arrest with openings not exceeding
12.5 mm and it needs to be built of

2160
04:20:39,040 --> 04:20:44,720
non-combustible construction. So, this
bylaw is actually less restrictive than

2161
04:20:42,880 --> 04:20:48,159
that. Our fire pit our fire pits in this
bylaw do do not stipulate a spark

2162
04:20:46,560 --> 04:20:51,199
arresttor or actually any minimum
setbacks unless we're talking about

2163
04:20:49,520 --> 04:20:54,479
underground or above ground utilities
specifically. There are a lot of

2164
04:20:52,880 --> 04:20:58,239
municipalities in Alberta that are much
more restrictive like regional

2165
04:20:56,239 --> 04:21:05,120
municipality of Wood Buffalo, uh the
county of Grand Prairie, um uh Rocky

2166
04:21:02,960 --> 04:21:08,800
View County. uh those municipalities in
some cases have four meter setbacks from

2167
04:21:07,199 --> 04:21:14,399
combustible construction or flammable
vegetation require non-combustible

2168
04:21:11,359 --> 04:21:16,880
aprons around pits. So ours is is pretty
reasonable and meets the industry

2169
04:21:15,840 --> 04:21:20,880
standard for the majority of
municipalities. So that's where our

2170
04:21:18,399 --> 04:21:25,439
information comes from. It wasn't made
uh without uh speaking to an industry

2171
04:21:24,239 --> 04:21:29,199
standard for an example. We're not
asking to do anything different here

2172
04:21:26,880 --> 04:21:33,920
than what everybody else is is doing in
Alberta. Now, that's uh council's

2173
04:21:31,680 --> 04:21:36,800
prerogative on if we want to follow uh
industry best practice on that or if we

2174
04:21:35,600 --> 04:21:40,479
want to have a different standard in
Clearwater County. But those are really

2175
04:21:38,720 --> 04:21:44,399
the the two pieces of information that I
can I can speak to a little bit more

2176
04:21:41,840 --> 04:21:48,319
detailed and Chief Hemer can speak about
why we're trying to align things between

2177
04:21:46,239 --> 04:21:52,479
the FBA and and the rest of the county
essentially. But I will pass the floor

2178
04:21:49,680 --> 04:21:57,040
back over to council for questions,
comments.

2179
04:21:54,479 --> 04:22:04,000
» Deputy Eve, go ahead, please.
>> Thank you, Eve. Uh, [clears throat]

2180
04:22:00,800 --> 04:22:10,159
first off, I guess um
I will respectfully in the most utmost

2181
04:22:07,359 --> 04:22:14,479
respectful way disagree that the rest of
the county should fall under the FBA

2182
04:22:11,840 --> 04:22:19,359
regulations. I don't believe that
agricultural residents should have to

2183
04:22:17,120 --> 04:22:23,040
fall under the same rules as the forest
protection area.

2184
04:22:21,120 --> 04:22:28,640
I think it will cause a lot more
problems than than it will do good

2185
04:22:26,640 --> 04:22:35,120
because people
will maybe do things in spite of as what

2186
04:22:31,920 --> 04:22:41,279
people tend to do with new regulations.
Uh secondly, with regards to the dates,

2187
04:22:39,359 --> 04:22:45,279
um
previously in Clearwater County, no burn

2188
04:22:43,760 --> 04:22:52,640
permits were required in the month of
March or April. So now we've removed two

2189
04:22:49,840 --> 04:22:58,120
entire months and said that permits are
now required for the entire county. Is

2190
04:22:54,880 --> 04:22:58,120
that correct?

2191
04:22:58,640 --> 04:23:05,680
» Deb Reef. Um just asking for some
clarity. Um in Clearwater County outside

2192
04:23:04,000 --> 04:23:11,600
the forest protection area, we have not
required permits at all any month of the

2193
04:23:08,399 --> 04:23:15,199
year. Um this bylaw would require fire
permits from March 1st to October 31st.

2194
04:23:14,000 --> 04:23:20,479
» Pardon me. It was previously
notification was required.

2195
04:23:17,680 --> 04:23:25,120
Yes. Uh, in all of Clearwater County,
inside the FBA and outside the FBA, our

2196
04:23:22,880 --> 04:23:30,560
bylaw currently requires folks to notify
the county through a burn notification

2197
04:23:26,720 --> 04:23:33,600
365 days a year to uh to notify the
county if they're going to burn. That's

2198
04:23:32,399 --> 04:23:40,840
the current bylaw.
>> Okay. Thank you.

2199
04:23:36,159 --> 04:23:40,840
And then with regards to fireworks,

2200
04:23:41,040 --> 04:23:49,359
so just to understand what you had said
at the start of this, um

2201
04:23:47,520 --> 04:23:56,479
there are currently no provincial
regulations that require Clearwater

2202
04:23:52,319 --> 04:24:01,439
County to have a fireworks bylaw.
And the idea that by not having one,

2203
04:23:59,359 --> 04:24:06,800
they are then illegal because we don't
have a law. That idea has been pushed

2204
04:24:04,319 --> 04:24:12,399
forward by lawyers over the last decade.
That that is not the way that anyone in

2205
04:24:08,960 --> 04:24:18,560
Canada thought about anything until the
last 10 well even say 20 years. But just

2206
04:24:16,640 --> 04:24:23,439
the idea that if we don't have it, it's
automatically illegal.

2207
04:24:21,359 --> 04:24:29,359
Is is that really the approach that we
need to take here?

2208
04:24:26,000 --> 04:24:34,479
um eperee
it they are not by default declared

2209
04:24:32,399 --> 04:24:38,479
automatically illegal but you know I
liken it to

2210
04:24:36,640 --> 04:24:42,800
you know a new type of firearm is built
in Canada that doesn't fall under the

2211
04:24:40,080 --> 04:24:46,720
national firearms act and because it's
not the way it actions or the way it's

2212
04:24:45,040 --> 04:24:51,359
built doesn't necessarily fall within
the current bylaw or the current

2213
04:24:48,960 --> 04:24:55,920
legislation doesn't mean that that new
firearm is is by by default legal. there

2214
04:24:54,640 --> 04:25:00,800
would probably be some stand data that
came out that would that would put that

2215
04:24:57,680 --> 04:25:07,600
into into some kind of legislation. So,
you know, to to clarify my words, they

2216
04:25:03,920 --> 04:25:15,199
are not illegal. Um, but we have no way
of safely allowing their use. So, by not

2217
04:25:11,520 --> 04:25:20,880
safely allowing their use in in a in any
way specifically, uh it will default to

2218
04:25:18,399 --> 04:25:24,960
the very high level legislation that the
National Explosives Act is. that very

2219
04:25:23,520 --> 04:25:31,279
high level legislation was never
intended to fill the gap in uh locally

2220
04:25:28,319 --> 04:25:35,120
permitting their use. So if we default
to that legislation, we're in the

2221
04:25:33,600 --> 04:25:38,880
situation we find ourselves in now,
which is different than before 2019. We

2222
04:25:37,359 --> 04:25:44,479
were in a different situation where
their their use was in the fire code and

2223
04:25:41,840 --> 04:25:47,920
we had an ability to control their use,
uh their safe use, their safe sale,

2224
04:25:46,319 --> 04:25:52,479
their safe storage, all of these things.
Now we can only look at their storage in

2225
04:25:50,880 --> 04:25:56,960
a building under the fire code. So we've
lost the ability to safely regulate

2226
04:25:54,080 --> 04:26:00,640
fireworks since 2019. When that change
happened, there was a lot of of ask from

2227
04:25:59,199 --> 04:26:04,960
the provincial governments or provincial
bodies to for municipalities to look

2228
04:26:02,880 --> 04:26:09,120
inward and say if you guys want to
retain that control of fireworks use

2229
04:26:06,720 --> 04:26:12,560
that you've had in the previous decades,
you will need to put a bylaw in place to

2230
04:26:10,800 --> 04:26:18,908
do that. And as the fire service sitting
in front of you today, it is our it is

2231
04:26:15,040 --> 04:26:22,640
our opinion and our our our um
[clears throat] ask of council that we

2232
04:26:20,319 --> 04:26:27,359
have those safe controls put in place.
Uh now that is council's decision. Uh

2233
04:26:24,880 --> 04:26:30,800
for sure they are not blanket illegal.
However, it defaults to we have a

2234
04:26:29,120 --> 04:26:36,080
legislative gap that we didn't have
before 2019 when the laws changed uh

2235
04:26:33,840 --> 04:26:40,080
specifically the Alberta fire code. When
that change took place, Alberta Forestry

2236
04:26:38,159 --> 04:26:44,880
was very quick to put regulations in
control of that within the FBA. Many

2237
04:26:43,359 --> 04:26:51,600
municipalities in Alberta did the same
thing. Rural municipalities just like us

2238
04:26:47,680 --> 04:26:56,720
um because there is safe ways and unsafe
ways to discharge fireworks. There's a

2239
04:26:53,520 --> 04:27:03,040
lot of risk with them, uh storage, sale,
and use. And we lost the ability to

2240
04:26:59,840 --> 04:27:06,800
control those pieces. And if that is uh
you know from a fire service

2241
04:27:04,159 --> 04:27:13,040
perspective, we we have a risk there and
this bylaw would control that risk for

2242
04:27:08,800 --> 04:27:16,640
us as a municipality. And um
that's why we have it in front of

2243
04:27:14,319 --> 04:27:21,840
council here today.
>> Thank you. And I guess maybe in

2244
04:27:20,399 --> 04:27:26,960
an an administrative change would be
suggested rather than

2245
04:27:24,399 --> 04:27:31,359
putting a blanket fire permit
requirement on

2246
04:27:29,840 --> 04:27:36,640
every
resailer, everyone that has possession

2247
04:27:33,439 --> 04:27:42,640
of everyone wishing to discharge for the
entire year. Could that not be worded

2248
04:27:39,600 --> 04:27:48,560
that fireworks shall not be discharged
without a permit during fire season

2249
04:27:45,840 --> 04:27:53,040
rather than creating
like I I don't know if we fully

2250
04:27:51,359 --> 04:27:59,040
understand the amount of fireworks that
are purchased and utilized within

2251
04:27:55,840 --> 04:28:02,800
Clearwater County. Like this permitting
system,

2252
04:28:01,120 --> 04:28:07,520
how how is that even going to work,
right? Like you're you're having a kid's

2253
04:28:05,120 --> 04:28:10,399
birthday party and there's no risk of
fire. there's snow on the ground. You

2254
04:28:09,120 --> 04:28:15,840
decide you're going to set out some fire
bricks that you have. Now, you have to

2255
04:28:12,800 --> 04:28:20,960
get a permit or your neighbor has the
right to call bylaw. I I can't get on

2256
04:28:19,279 --> 04:28:26,720
board with that.
>> Understood, Deputy Reef. Um uh that

2257
04:28:23,920 --> 04:28:30,800
change to the bylaw would uh if we were
talking about permitting fireworks only

2258
04:28:28,239 --> 04:28:35,120
during fire season would uh manage the
wildfire risk component to fireworks

2259
04:28:32,800 --> 04:28:39,680
permitting. Uh for sure, it would manage
that piece. uh what it wouldn't manage

2260
04:28:37,600 --> 04:28:44,080
would be the risk to property and the
risk to public health. Uh that is one of

2261
04:28:42,560 --> 04:28:48,560
the reasons why they still require
written permission in the FBA 365 days

2262
04:28:46,880 --> 04:28:53,279
of the year. And we can definitely make
those changes if and if council does not

2263
04:28:50,640 --> 04:28:56,080
want to uh mimic the rules that are in
place in the forest protection area and

2264
04:28:54,640 --> 04:28:59,600
wants to have a different standard of
rules for that uh portion of Clearwater

2265
04:28:58,239 --> 04:29:05,040
County outside the FPA, that is
council's prerogative. uh the intent of

2266
04:29:01,760 --> 04:29:10,880
the bylaw as written was to decrease uh
confusion um uh from one side of the the

2267
04:29:08,720 --> 04:29:16,640
FBA line to the other. So trying to
realign uh our requirements for burning

2268
04:29:14,479 --> 04:29:19,439
and fireworks regardless of where you
live in Clearwater County was the

2269
04:29:17,920 --> 04:29:23,199
original spirit of how the bylaw was
written because that is a that is a

2270
04:29:21,600 --> 04:29:28,319
significant challenge we see as the fire
service is our public not understanding

2271
04:29:25,680 --> 04:29:32,080
the difference between west of the
forest protection area boundary and east

2272
04:29:29,840 --> 04:29:35,600
of it. Uh but there's definitely an
ability to rewrite a bylaw. That's

2273
04:29:33,760 --> 04:29:39,920
council's direction that we have
different rules outside the FBA. That's

2274
04:29:38,000 --> 04:29:45,319
within our our authority as a
municipality.

2275
04:29:42,159 --> 04:29:45,319
Thank you,

2276
04:29:45,840 --> 04:29:51,040
» Council Lewin.
>> Yes. Uh 18-3.

2277
04:29:50,477 --> 04:29:54,960
[clears throat]
No person shall have in their

2278
04:29:52,560 --> 04:30:01,040
possession, sell, offer for sale, give
away or otherwise distribute,

2279
04:29:57,840 --> 04:30:04,887
distribute, discharge, fire or set off
firecrackers within the county.

2280
04:30:02,960 --> 04:30:09,920
Firecrackers
[snorts]

2281
04:30:05,520 --> 04:30:13,120
um what? So firecrackers are illegal
then within the county.

2282
04:30:11,199 --> 04:30:17,680
» So firecrackers are different than
fireworks. They're the uh explosive

2283
04:30:16,640 --> 04:30:24,479
or the auditory [clears throat]
explosive bang that you hear without the

2284
04:30:21,359 --> 04:30:30,159
display of the flashy lights. And those
are illegal in Canada. So that's why

2285
04:30:27,840 --> 04:30:35,760
that one is separate and that was uh
when reviewed by law or the legal team

2286
04:30:33,520 --> 04:30:40,399
that was suggested that that be put in
uh independently.

2287
04:30:37,920 --> 04:30:45,920
Wow. Did not know that. I better burn
all my fireworks or firecrackers and and

2288
04:30:43,520 --> 04:30:50,319
with within the county firecrackers. How
is that like the wording of that? How is

2289
04:30:47,920 --> 04:30:53,040
that?
>> Don't I don't have it from

2290
04:30:52,000 --> 04:31:00,000
» I'm just looking at it here now.
>> Chief the last um it's part of the whole

2291
04:30:56,640 --> 04:31:03,837
entire sentence but it say uh fire set
off firecrackers within the county

2292
04:31:02,080 --> 04:31:08,880
firecrackers.
[snorts]

2293
04:31:05,359 --> 04:31:11,439
» Yes. Yeah. Section 18 or uh section 183.
No person shall have in their

2294
04:31:09,920 --> 04:31:15,439
possession, sell, offer, sale, or give
away otherwise distribute, discharge, or

2295
04:31:13,120 --> 04:31:20,000
fire or set off firecrackers within the
county. Essentially, what that line is

2296
04:31:16,960 --> 04:31:22,880
saying is that firecrackers and their
sale [clears throat]

2297
04:31:20,960 --> 04:31:25,920
and use within the county would not be
permitted.

2298
04:31:23,600 --> 04:31:28,920
» Oh, firecrackers within the county,
firecrackers,

2299
04:31:29,680 --> 04:31:32,880
» they are.
>> So, firecrackers are legal in Canada

2300
04:31:32,239 --> 04:31:37,199
now.
>> Yeah. under that same explosive um

2301
04:31:35,760 --> 04:31:42,760
explosive [clears throat] act federal
federal legislation. They're they're

2302
04:31:38,720 --> 04:31:42,760
defined independently there.

2303
04:31:42,880 --> 04:31:48,279
» So much for New Year's Eve. Thank you,

2304
04:31:52,720 --> 04:31:59,439
» Councelor Humphrey. Do you have
comments?

2305
04:31:55,920 --> 04:32:05,040
» Yeah, [clears throat] I I do. I'm
on the firecracker thing. If they're if

2306
04:32:01,920 --> 04:32:09,279
they're already illegal in Canada,
why do we even have to talk about it

2307
04:32:06,800 --> 04:32:17,600
then? Cuz we don't want to cover every
law that in Canada with our county if if

2308
04:32:14,479 --> 04:32:22,960
it seems like a a moot point. If they're
illegal, you can't buy them.

2309
04:32:20,800 --> 04:32:25,279
Correct. Can we can because you can't
buy them anywhere.

2310
04:32:24,080 --> 04:32:30,239
» Correct. You cannot buy them.
>> So, we can't buy them and we can't have

2311
04:32:27,760 --> 04:32:32,800
them if they're already illegal. Seems
like we don't even need number three in

2312
04:32:32,080 --> 04:32:36,159
there.
>> So again, I think

2313
04:32:34,560 --> 04:32:39,520
» just some clarity on them, too. If if
you can buy them at the store, then they

2314
04:32:37,840 --> 04:32:43,040
shouldn't fall that that device that
they're selling at the store should not

2315
04:32:41,120 --> 04:32:47,328
fall within the explosives. What the
explosives act is designated a

2316
04:32:45,040 --> 04:32:50,720
firecracker specifically. So there
[clears throat] are some pyrochnics that

2317
04:32:48,960 --> 04:32:55,760
you can buy that are still considered a
firework because they have some kind of

2318
04:32:52,399 --> 04:32:59,840
visual display like a sparkler or uh
something of that nature that would not

2319
04:32:57,680 --> 04:33:04,879
be considered a firecracker. I think
this is specifically in here because our

2320
04:33:01,920 --> 04:33:10,719
legal uh our legal council told us that
it should be listed in this portion of

2321
04:33:06,400 --> 04:33:14,480
the bylaw. Um but uh you would be
correct like if it is listed in the

2322
04:33:12,400 --> 04:33:17,039
explosives act that it is illegal. We
don't necessarily need to reference it

2323
04:33:15,760 --> 04:33:21,520
in our bylaw as long as we're
referencing that only legal fireworks

2324
04:33:19,279 --> 04:33:24,160
under the explosives act are are
permitted under this by

2325
04:33:23,119 --> 04:33:27,359
» Yeah. [clears throat] seems like we're
just kind of

2326
04:33:25,119 --> 04:33:30,799
» if I can just add in there, I I think
that there's provisions, if I remember

2327
04:33:29,359 --> 04:33:36,480
correctly, and I don't have it in front
of me, uh, in the Federal Explosives

2328
04:33:33,600 --> 04:33:39,600
Act, there's regulation for
um,

2329
04:33:38,418 --> 04:33:43,680
[clears throat] like you go to a concert
and they have some type of a, you know,

2330
04:33:42,480 --> 04:33:48,080
show, [snorts]
fire, firecrackers, fireworks. there's

2331
04:33:46,719 --> 04:33:52,561
provisions in there for them to be
permitted for those type of events, but

2332
04:33:50,480 --> 04:33:58,879
for like the general population, they
are they're not allowed. Um, so I think

2333
04:33:56,400 --> 04:34:03,600
my interpretation of of uh the legal
team's recommendation to include that is

2334
04:34:01,119 --> 04:34:06,959
is because of that.
Yeah. Pyrochnics, for example, in a

2335
04:34:05,279 --> 04:34:10,561
movie set, right? If they were filming a
movie in Clear Water Count, they would

2336
04:34:08,561 --> 04:34:14,400
have they would have licensed pyro
technicians that are there to do that

2337
04:34:12,480 --> 04:34:18,080
show and provide those special effects
for the movie. they have different rules

2338
04:34:16,480 --> 04:34:21,840
under the explosives act on what they
can use to simulate, you know, gun

2339
04:34:20,320 --> 04:34:25,199
blasts and explosions and things like
that that the normal population aren't

2340
04:34:23,520 --> 04:34:29,039
aren't legally allowed to possess and
utilize day-to-day. So that's part of

2341
04:34:27,039 --> 04:34:33,279
the reason why there's some clarity in
here on that, you know, if you have a

2342
04:34:30,799 --> 04:34:36,879
firework, you can't use it in clear or a
firecracker, you can't use it in

2343
04:34:34,561 --> 04:34:42,879
Clearwater County. that doesn't preclude
a licensed power technician from from

2344
04:34:40,080 --> 04:34:47,439
putting a uh an event permit forward
that they would normally have to do now

2345
04:34:44,480 --> 04:34:50,400
anyway. So, for an example, if we had a
a commercial fireworks show in Caroline

2346
04:34:49,814 --> 04:34:53,920
[clears throat and cough]
uh in Clearwater County today,

2347
04:34:52,160 --> 04:34:58,959
independent of this bylaw existing or
not, uh commercial grade fireworks need

2348
04:34:56,799 --> 04:35:03,279
a fire safety plan uh that's signed off
by the fire department. They need uh

2349
04:35:01,199 --> 04:35:06,959
licensed power technicians with their
license numbers on that application.

2350
04:35:04,799 --> 04:35:10,561
They need to show us their their uh
danger area, their fall area, where the

2351
04:35:09,039 --> 04:35:13,520
components of that are going to go. They
have to put all of that into place and

2352
04:35:11,920 --> 04:35:18,320
have a plan set ahead that we have to
sign today. That's under the explosives

2353
04:35:15,279 --> 04:35:23,439
act. Uh so that still exists today, even
independent of this bylaw. This is

2354
04:35:20,080 --> 04:35:28,879
talking specifically about the public
utilizing things like that on dayto-day.

2355
04:35:25,920 --> 04:35:32,320
And and I can, you know, from a fire
perspective, there's a fire risk to

2356
04:35:30,400 --> 04:35:38,480
firecrackers. There's also a health risk
to firecrackers, but there's also a law

2357
04:35:33,920 --> 04:35:42,320
enforcement uh, you know, asked to not
have these things in in ready use

2358
04:35:40,719 --> 04:35:45,920
around. You can imagine that they sound
very similar to guns being fired, all

2359
04:35:44,719 --> 04:35:49,520
kinds of things, right? So, there's a
lot this is very encompassing piece on

2360
04:35:48,320 --> 04:35:54,006
where a lot of this information
legislation come from, not necessarily

2361
04:35:51,039 --> 04:35:58,000
just fire risk.
[snorts]

2362
04:35:55,039 --> 04:36:03,359
» Yeah. None of that.
I mean, if you if you got firecrackers,

2363
04:36:00,719 --> 04:36:07,760
it's just like anything else. If you you
know, it's

2364
04:36:05,439 --> 04:36:12,480
it's illegal to have firecrackers. It's
illegal to rob a bank. I don't think we

2365
04:36:09,600 --> 04:36:18,160
need to put it in here that in our stuff
that it's it's already illegal. Just

2366
04:36:14,719 --> 04:36:21,279
seems like it's redundant to me. Um
council,

2367
04:36:18,639 --> 04:36:26,080
» I'm not sure. just it just does because
no matter any way you look at it, it's

2368
04:36:23,920 --> 04:36:30,240
legal to buy them. If you got a special
permit because you were doing this and

2369
04:36:27,760 --> 04:36:34,480
you were going to put on a special show,
you would have to get that at a way

2370
04:36:32,240 --> 04:36:38,080
higher level than what we are at and
they would h they would either have that

2371
04:36:36,160 --> 04:36:42,400
to have it or they wouldn't or they
wouldn't have it. They'd use something

2372
04:36:39,359 --> 04:36:45,680
else. So, um just a redundancy and I'll
I'll let it go now.

2373
04:36:44,080 --> 04:36:51,279
» Yeah. If I can just add some perspective
to [clears throat] that potentially

2374
04:36:46,799 --> 04:36:57,279
would be uh the enforcement uh side of
that by not having it in a bylaw. Uh the

2375
04:36:54,480 --> 04:37:00,480
county would have no no provision to uh
enforce any compliance around that

2376
04:36:58,719 --> 04:37:06,160
either. It would be just federal which
would be just the RCMP under the federal

2377
04:37:03,119 --> 04:37:11,039
explosives act. Uh so probably another
reason why the legal team would have

2378
04:37:08,400 --> 04:37:15,840
recommended including it in this bylaw
um [snorts]

2379
04:37:11,840 --> 04:37:20,639
and and uh making it holistic that way.
>> Yeah. And I still think if it's a law

2380
04:37:18,799 --> 04:37:26,240
enforcement issue, they would be the
ones we'd want to to deal with that, not

2381
04:37:23,439 --> 04:37:31,760
us. My take on it. And I just think we
don't want to overlap into their

2382
04:37:28,320 --> 04:37:35,840
jurisdiction. Um,
I'll leave that one go now because I I

2383
04:37:33,840 --> 04:37:42,561
just don't I think there's still some
stuff that we need to address in here.

2384
04:37:38,959 --> 04:37:47,359
One of them comes back to the fire pits
and I expressed my thoughts on that last

2385
04:37:45,039 --> 04:37:51,760
time. It's uh
everywhere you go that just because it's

2386
04:37:50,000 --> 04:37:57,439
in the fire protection area and just
because some other counties say that

2387
04:37:54,799 --> 04:38:02,959
three foot is the is the size when we
know that we have

2388
04:38:00,320 --> 04:38:06,879
multiple fire pits in our county that
are over three foot. We shouldn't be

2389
04:38:05,039 --> 04:38:15,039
putting a a [clears throat] size
restriction on that's going to impose

2390
04:38:12,160 --> 04:38:20,080
restrictions on our current residents,
on a large population of our residents

2391
04:38:18,000 --> 04:38:25,119
that have that live out in the country
and have a a 4ft or a 5ft fire pit and

2392
04:38:22,879 --> 04:38:28,879
have for years. [clears throat] Uh
crusher cones are a great example.

2393
04:38:27,279 --> 04:38:34,240
They're they're very safe to have a fire
in a crusher cone. Um,

2394
04:38:32,719 --> 04:38:40,160
and they're utilized throughout the
county, but they're way they're they're

2395
04:38:36,879 --> 04:38:44,719
larger than 3 foot. So, for us to put a
a restriction like that on them just

2396
04:38:42,080 --> 04:38:51,279
doesn't seem right. I think we need to
revisit this in a little more detail.

2397
04:38:47,439 --> 04:38:54,561
There's there's some issues here.
Thank you, [clears throat] councelor

2398
04:38:51,920 --> 04:38:58,240
Humphrey. I did see councelor Pal. Did
you have indicated you had garments? No.

2399
04:38:56,480 --> 04:39:04,000
Councelor McCauley,
>> just on the fire pits, our current bylaw

2400
04:39:01,359 --> 04:39:07,520
is more restrictive right now for the
entire county on fire pits.

2401
04:39:06,000 --> 04:39:10,520
» Correct.
>> Okay.

2402
04:39:14,160 --> 04:39:22,561
» Yeah, I think uh just having a just for
charging devices for the computers.

2403
04:39:20,799 --> 04:39:26,920
» Yeah, technical difficulties. We'll take
a just a fivem minute recess here.

2404
04:40:22,240 --> 04:40:25,280
before we go back to live

2405
04:42:43,760 --> 04:42:49,360
Welcome back from our short recess.
Councelor Lewin uh his charger was not

2406
04:42:47,760 --> 04:42:52,878
working on his device there, but uh
everything is good now. So, uh welcome

2407
04:42:51,360 --> 04:43:00,080
back and we'll resume the meeting and we
are on item uh 6.2, fire

2408
04:42:57,360 --> 04:43:05,040
services bylaw. Councelor Le, do you
have comments? Um yeah, when it comes to

2409
04:43:02,160 --> 04:43:08,638
the size of the fire pits, uh instead of
stipulating the size of the fire pits,

2410
04:43:06,798 --> 04:43:13,760
what about a safe non-burn zone around
the fire pit? So if you wanted a meter

2411
04:43:11,200 --> 04:43:19,280
and a half fire pit or 2 m fire pit,
you'd have to have a longer no fire zone

2412
04:43:16,638 --> 04:43:27,120
around that, a b a boundary or border
around that, you know, introduce

2413
04:43:21,360 --> 04:43:33,040
something like that. is I know um I know
lots of people that have the cones but

2414
04:43:30,480 --> 04:43:37,200
they'll have a size outside of this
table that is all green rock nothing

2415
04:43:35,280 --> 04:43:42,400
growing there at all and the trees are
all back there's no upper branches or

2416
04:43:38,718 --> 04:43:46,718
whatever. So this is suggestment or or a
way of manipulating that grab. I

2417
04:43:44,000 --> 04:43:51,840
» I mean I I think that's a possibility. I
would maybe just put out there that uh

2418
04:43:49,440 --> 04:43:55,440
there could be many that also do have
combustible material right up to them as

2419
04:43:53,760 --> 04:43:59,120
well. Just as many as the people who
have them safely, you know, gravel

2420
04:43:57,680 --> 04:44:04,878
around them, etc. You'll probably have
just as many with grass around them and

2421
04:44:02,560 --> 04:44:11,200
and realistically that grass is only a
hazard in the spring while it's dead,

2422
04:44:07,680 --> 04:44:15,680
unmowed, and cured uh until it greens up
and then it becomes less of a less of a

2423
04:44:13,200 --> 04:44:19,840
problem uh throughout the year. So, but
but definitely possibilities to look at

2424
04:44:17,920 --> 04:44:23,600
that. We could look at uh increasing the
size

2425
04:44:20,958 --> 04:44:27,600
» uh to what maybe council thinks would
capture the majority of the residents.

2426
04:44:25,440 --> 04:44:32,638
Uh you know, like DC Stewart has
suggested, we we need to have a standard

2427
04:44:29,600 --> 04:44:38,638
of of some sort uh to put in here moving
forward. The intention was never to go

2428
04:44:35,040 --> 04:44:44,400
after somebody who had a fire pit over 3
ft or 1 meter um just because it was,

2429
04:44:41,520 --> 04:44:48,320
you know, new in the bylaw. Um there is
you are right there's a lot of safe

2430
04:44:46,160 --> 04:44:52,160
larger probably larger fire pits out
there and I would suggest not many are

2431
04:44:50,480 --> 04:44:55,440
greater than a crusher cone would
probably be the most common one.

2432
04:44:54,160 --> 04:44:59,200
» Mhm.
>> Thank you

2433
04:44:57,360 --> 04:45:05,360
councelor Serach. Go ahead. You know,
with the fire pits, I kind of agree that

2434
04:45:01,920 --> 04:45:11,120
you need a standard and anything outside
of that standard should be permitted and

2435
04:45:08,480 --> 04:45:15,718
be allowed
and it's just a one-time permit.

2436
04:45:16,798 --> 04:45:22,560
Yeah, that's that's an option we can
explore as well. We can we could leave

2437
04:45:20,320 --> 04:45:27,280
the bylaw as written uh with that
standard for [clears throat]

2438
04:45:24,480 --> 04:45:31,360
new development um or or the in
installation of a new fire pit. Uh and

2439
04:45:29,600 --> 04:45:36,240
anybody, you know, the communication
could be that if your uh fire pit is

2440
04:45:33,600 --> 04:45:41,440
outside of these parameters, please get
a hold of us and over time we could

2441
04:45:39,120 --> 04:45:45,520
visit them and and inspect them and
permit them. uh that just does increase

2442
04:45:43,360 --> 04:45:51,920
workload uh on on the fire services team
to to do that for every resident

2443
04:45:47,440 --> 04:45:57,600
potentially in in Clearwater County.
>> But that way there it'd be safe and

2444
04:45:54,240 --> 04:46:02,080
health and and healthy for our people
for our constituents.

2445
04:45:59,760 --> 04:46:06,718
» Absolutely.
>> And if you are building a new one, then

2446
04:46:04,320 --> 04:46:13,000
you know what the standard is, what's
acceptable

2447
04:46:08,400 --> 04:46:13,000
with the exception of a permit.

2448
04:46:13,040 --> 04:46:21,760
That's my feeling, gentlemen. Then
>> okay,

2449
04:46:17,760 --> 04:46:27,200
councelor, uh, Deputy Ree, go ahead.
>> Thanks, Re. Um, maybe it would be be

2450
04:46:24,878 --> 04:46:32,000
appropriate at this time to, uh, make a
motion

2451
04:46:28,958 --> 04:46:37,200
that, uh, we seem to be hung up on on
three specific things here being

2452
04:46:33,520 --> 04:46:42,160
fireworks, fire pits, and, uh, the dates
required for burn permits.

2453
04:46:40,000 --> 04:46:47,520
So, Would it maybe be appropriate to
request that fire services come back

2454
04:46:43,760 --> 04:46:53,040
with more information regarding
uh leaving the dates until I believe it

2455
04:46:50,560 --> 04:46:59,360
was the end of March before instead of
the end of February as well as having

2456
04:46:56,958 --> 04:47:09,000
fireworks requiring a permit only during
fire season as well as fire pits being

2457
04:47:04,240 --> 04:47:09,000
1.5 m rather than 1 m.

2458
04:47:11,840 --> 04:47:19,120
or is there really anything else to
bring back?

2459
04:47:16,958 --> 04:47:22,718
» I'm not sure if it There we go. Um, we
we can definitely do that, Deb. Uh, we

2460
04:47:21,280 --> 04:47:25,680
can come back with some information for
council on those changes and what those

2461
04:47:24,240 --> 04:47:31,200
look like. Um, [clears throat] just for
clarity, the March 31st versus March

2462
04:47:28,718 --> 04:47:37,200
1st. The current fire season that the
province uh speaks about is March 1st.

2463
04:47:33,600 --> 04:47:40,000
It was March 31st
or

2464
04:47:38,798 --> 04:47:43,840
about 10 years ago.
>> Yeah. So, the old provincial legislation

2465
04:47:41,680 --> 04:47:49,280
was was April, but they've moved it up
to March. So, it's March 1st to October

2466
04:47:46,320 --> 04:47:54,080
31st is the provincial fire season. And
we would align our

2467
04:47:52,080 --> 04:47:59,760
the wording in here that's been adjusted
presented to you today makes that

2468
04:47:55,840 --> 04:48:06,840
adjustment to uh match that fire season.
>> So, that's provincial. Okay. So that one

2469
04:48:01,520 --> 04:48:06,840
is kind of struck off the list if Yeah.

2470
04:48:10,878 --> 04:48:16,958
» One other thing to address councelor
Serach's comments as well too is is you

2471
04:48:15,600 --> 04:48:20,958
know we can we can really take a look at
this bylaw and how it's written here

2472
04:48:18,560 --> 04:48:27,120
now. I I believe the way it's written
allows that today. Um essentially that

2473
04:48:24,718 --> 04:48:32,560
what it's saying is a is a fire pit that
meets what's in this does not require a

2474
04:48:29,440 --> 04:48:36,160
permit. If your if your fire pit is
built this way, you do not need a

2475
04:48:34,000 --> 04:48:39,520
permit. Anytime during the year, as long
as there's no fire ban or fire

2476
04:48:37,600 --> 04:48:45,040
restriction in place limiting your
burning, uh you don't need a fire permit

2477
04:48:42,240 --> 04:48:49,120
for this. Anything outside of that would
be considered a permittable burn. So, if

2478
04:48:46,878 --> 04:48:52,958
you have a bigger pit uh or you want or
it doesn't meet these requirements, you

2479
04:48:50,718 --> 04:48:57,760
could request a fire permit. We could do
it similarly to how we do burning

2480
04:48:54,560 --> 04:49:01,760
barrels where they get a permit and for
the life of it could be for the life of

2481
04:48:59,520 --> 04:49:06,878
that burn barrel. Uh it could be as long
as it's stays in in uh in the way it's

2482
04:49:05,280 --> 04:49:11,040
manufactured when we issue the permit.
It is a permitted burn barrel. Now uh we

2483
04:49:09,520 --> 04:49:14,080
could do something similar with fire
pits where if it doesn't meet this

2484
04:49:12,560 --> 04:49:17,920
requirement and you want to maintain it,
you could request a permit. We could go

2485
04:49:15,680 --> 04:49:24,320
out take a look. we could permit that
pit because it has, you know, a safe

2486
04:49:20,718 --> 04:49:28,160
boundary around it or it is it is a safe
crusher cone and it's not within 3

2487
04:49:26,080 --> 04:49:32,240
meters of anything that's burnable. Uh
we could give them a permit for that

2488
04:49:29,760 --> 04:49:35,520
pit. Uh so that's another way we could
handle that as well too. Really what

2489
04:49:34,000 --> 04:49:39,200
this bylaw is saying is this is the
standard that it needs to meet if you

2490
04:49:37,600 --> 04:49:42,798
don't want to have to get a permit when
you burn in it. Uh if you want to burn

2491
04:49:41,440 --> 04:49:47,120
something outside of this, you would
require a permit. Um, so I I believe the

2492
04:49:45,760 --> 04:49:51,200
way the B is written today would allow
us to do that. It would allow somebody

2493
04:49:48,560 --> 04:49:55,680
that has a a crusher comb pit that's 1.5
meters to ask uh for a permit and we

2494
04:49:53,840 --> 04:50:00,958
could permit it or we could simply
change uh our safe standard to encompass

2495
04:49:59,200 --> 04:50:03,920
the majority of the pits in Clearwater
County that exists today

2496
04:50:02,240 --> 04:50:08,320
» which would drastically reduce the
workload.

2497
04:50:05,040 --> 04:50:12,958
» Yeah. And and we specifically didn't put
uh in the bylaw a time restriction on

2498
04:50:11,200 --> 04:50:17,440
the duration of the permit. We left that
up to the issuing officer at the time or

2499
04:50:15,200 --> 04:50:22,160
fire fire services personnel so that
maybe it is a lifetime permit on this

2500
04:50:20,000 --> 04:50:28,320
burn barrel, this fire pit. Maybe it's
annual, maybe it's 2 weeks, right? But

2501
04:50:26,320 --> 04:50:31,920
but for something like that, we would we
don't want to be running out there every

2502
04:50:29,600 --> 04:50:35,440
time you want to roast a wiener uh in
your backyard. So those would be things

2503
04:50:33,520 --> 04:50:41,040
we would treat at least annually, I
would suggest, if not greater. But by

2504
04:50:38,240 --> 04:50:44,000
going from 1 meter to 1.5, we would
eliminate 90% of those that need to be

2505
04:50:43,200 --> 04:50:46,240
permanent.
>> Correct.

2506
04:50:45,360 --> 04:50:49,760
» Potentially.
>> Yeah. I'm I'm not familiar with how

2507
04:50:47,920 --> 04:50:52,400
many, but it would be probably a
significant amount that would we we

2508
04:50:51,280 --> 04:50:57,160
would reduce requirement.
>> Sorry, we shouldn't use percentages, but

2509
04:50:54,160 --> 04:50:57,160
Yeah.

2510
04:50:59,200 --> 04:51:03,480
» Do you have any further comments, Deputy
Reef?

2511
04:51:03,920 --> 04:51:09,440
» Yeah. No, it's uh there's a lot of
discussion. And I think there's it's a

2512
04:51:06,798 --> 04:51:14,292
good bylaw in many ways and there's been
a significant amount of discussion, but

2513
04:51:10,878 --> 04:51:17,040
it does, you know, we'll have a
[clears throat]

2514
04:51:15,440 --> 04:51:19,760
before the question is called, I think
council needs to have a good

2515
04:51:18,638 --> 04:51:27,680
understanding whether they're in
supportive of this bylaw or not. Um,

2516
04:51:24,400 --> 04:51:32,560
councelor Humphrey, I'll be quick. I
just think it would simplify everything

2517
04:51:29,600 --> 04:51:39,360
a lot and lighten your load if if we
just [snorts] made it 1.5. that would

2518
04:51:34,240 --> 04:51:43,920
cover the vast majority of them. And any
that were would be able were larger than

2519
04:51:42,160 --> 04:51:48,000
that
would still be able to get a permit for

2520
04:51:46,080 --> 04:51:51,360
them if they were an existing one and
you'd be able to check, but it would

2521
04:51:49,280 --> 04:51:56,798
just eliminate
a whole bunch of extra

2522
04:51:54,000 --> 04:52:02,560
steps and paperwork. So, I I think that
1.5 is a good idea, but I think we need

2523
04:51:59,200 --> 04:52:06,080
to have all that brought back. I agree.
So, thank thank you, councelor

2524
04:52:04,072 --> 04:52:09,120
[clears throat] Humphrey. And uh if
council was to move, we could uh

2525
04:52:07,760 --> 04:52:12,400
potentially direct administration to
bring back additional information on the

2526
04:52:10,560 --> 04:52:18,240
implications of increasing the size to
the 1.5 fireworks and the dates is what

2527
04:52:16,400 --> 04:52:20,958
I'm hearing. And then that could be
brought brought back for consideration

2528
04:52:19,600 --> 04:52:25,920
and the implications of what that could
look like at a future

2529
04:52:24,560 --> 04:52:28,878
at a future council meeting. I think if
we're going to adopt a bylaw, we might

2530
04:52:27,120 --> 04:52:32,718
as well do take the time and and do it
appropriate and do it right to best

2531
04:52:30,480 --> 04:52:38,480
serve the community.
Deputy Eve, go ahead.

2532
04:52:35,840 --> 04:52:42,240
» Yeah. Um, I guess is there anything else
anybody wants to add to this so that it

2533
04:52:40,320 --> 04:52:44,958
does just come back once? I mean, I I
know I kind of took the liberty of

2534
04:52:43,520 --> 04:52:48,000
listing those three, but maybe there's
more.

2535
04:52:46,240 --> 04:52:51,760
» What I'm hearing is that consensus is
sort of those have been the three items

2536
04:52:49,280 --> 04:52:55,840
has been the dates, the fireworks, and
the size of the fire pits. Councelor

2537
04:52:55,040 --> 04:53:02,638
Humphrey
>> also whether also in regards to the fire

2538
04:53:00,000 --> 04:53:11,760
protection area versus the remainder of
the county. I I think we need to

2539
04:53:08,560 --> 04:53:17,440
or I need some clarification on on that
yet. So on

2540
04:53:15,280 --> 04:53:21,840
whether it's essential that we
differentiate

2541
04:53:18,958 --> 04:53:29,360
that line so that
uh is our is our

2542
04:53:25,600 --> 04:53:34,080
permitting time going to be
any different

2543
04:53:31,520 --> 04:53:39,200
for
one side of the line now or the other

2544
04:53:35,840 --> 04:53:45,680
with with the province having said this
is when you need burn notifications. Are

2545
04:53:42,320 --> 04:53:53,440
we still there
for the nonfire protection area?

2546
04:53:50,160 --> 04:53:58,718
» So, right now, this bylaw is written, it
would align both sides uh of of the

2547
04:53:56,480 --> 04:54:04,000
line, both inside and outside the forest
protection area of Clearwater County.

2548
04:54:01,600 --> 04:54:10,878
So, eliminating any confusion that
currently exists.

2549
04:54:06,878 --> 04:54:16,080
So is our notification time now as it
sits is different?

2550
04:54:13,200 --> 04:54:22,320
» Our notification time currently is year
round.

2551
04:54:18,240 --> 04:54:30,000
» Okay. On both sides.
>> On both sides for the county.

2552
04:54:25,520 --> 04:54:34,320
» So our permitting time on both sides is
not the same right now. Currently, we

2553
04:54:31,920 --> 04:54:37,920
don't have a permitting system uh in
Clearwater County, but the province

2554
04:54:36,320 --> 04:54:42,638
requires
uh fire permits during their fire

2555
04:54:40,320 --> 04:54:44,080
season, which is March 1st to October
31st.

2556
04:54:43,600 --> 04:54:47,840
» Okay.
>> In the FPA.

2557
04:54:45,760 --> 04:54:53,440
» So, which is about 4 fifths of
Clearwater County.

2558
04:54:50,958 --> 04:54:59,120
» Just just for some clarity uh for for
council as well uh on process. So today

2559
04:54:56,638 --> 04:55:03,280
we're in the fire season, although it
has rained and the wildfire risk is

2560
04:55:00,878 --> 04:55:08,320
extremely low here right now. If you
want to burn something that isn't in a

2561
04:55:05,840 --> 04:55:12,718
uh an approved fire pit based on the
FPPA or the Forestry Prairie Protection

2562
04:55:10,000 --> 04:55:17,440
Act and its regulations,
your first stop is to get a fire permit

2563
04:55:15,280 --> 04:55:21,600
from Alberta Forestry. If you're in the
forest protection area, our current

2564
04:55:19,264 --> 04:55:25,920
[snorts] bylaw then asks those people to
notify the county as well because we

2565
04:55:24,080 --> 04:55:30,958
when it when [snorts] a 911 call comes
in for a fire, it comes to us first and

2566
04:55:28,560 --> 04:55:34,000
we generally notify Alberta wildfire
that there's a wildfire in their area,

2567
04:55:32,878 --> 04:55:37,920
especially if it's in one of the
populated parts of Clearwater County.

2568
04:55:35,520 --> 04:55:42,400
So, we ask for that notification.
We actually don't have authority in the

2569
04:55:39,840 --> 04:55:46,160
forest protection area to change the way
the province does anything, but we're

2570
04:55:43,920 --> 04:55:50,240
asking that they add one more step west
of the of that line to notify us as the

2571
04:55:48,878 --> 04:55:54,638
regional fire service because we're
going to get the 911 call and have to

2572
04:55:51,840 --> 04:55:58,240
respond there as well. Uh if you're
outside that line and you're east of the

2573
04:55:56,638 --> 04:56:02,320
forest protection area, your first stop
and only stop is to notify Clearwater

2574
04:56:00,560 --> 04:56:05,600
County. So people in the forest
protection area today have to get a

2575
04:56:03,680 --> 04:56:10,638
permit from Alberta Wildfire and notify
us. That permit is only in fire season,

2576
04:56:08,000 --> 04:56:15,280
March 1st to October 31st. That
notification is 365 days a year in the

2577
04:56:13,680 --> 04:56:17,920
FBA. So even if they're burning in the
winter and they're burning a brush pile

2578
04:56:16,560 --> 04:56:22,560
the size of a house, we want them to
notify us.

2579
04:56:20,400 --> 04:56:28,160
Outside the FBA, we still have that
annual notification, but there's no

2580
04:56:25,280 --> 04:56:33,120
permitting at all any time of the year.
Currently today, this bylaw is asking

2581
04:56:30,240 --> 04:56:38,560
that the first stop for people outside
the FPA be a permit from us instead of

2582
04:56:36,638 --> 04:56:42,560
just notifying us and then burning
whenever they'd like, whatever they'd

2583
04:56:40,080 --> 04:56:47,120
like. So, we're we're basically trying
to decrease the amount of escaped

2584
04:56:44,718 --> 04:56:53,040
wildfires we have in March, April, and
May are are usually April and May are

2585
04:56:49,840 --> 04:56:58,080
busiest times of the year. Uh because of
many reasons why uh these burns get away

2586
04:56:55,760 --> 04:57:03,520
on land owners. Some of it's negligence,
some of it is is happen stance, bad

2587
04:57:00,958 --> 04:57:07,920
things, but the majority of them can be
prevented by us double-checking where

2588
04:57:06,560 --> 04:57:11,120
they want to burn, what they want to
burn, and making sure they understand

2589
04:57:09,440 --> 04:57:15,200
the requirements of extinguishment when
it's done. And that's what we don't have

2590
04:57:13,440 --> 04:57:19,360
today. And this is what this bio is
intending to bring us is the ability to

2591
04:57:17,280 --> 04:57:22,798
to talk to them first before they start
their burn. Today, they just have to

2592
04:57:20,958 --> 04:57:27,440
tell us. And that can come on a Saturday
through email when no one's in the

2593
04:57:24,958 --> 04:57:30,480
office to process that. They can send an
email in through the county website on a

2594
04:57:29,040 --> 04:57:35,280
Saturday and say they're burning that
Saturday. And that can be in May uh when

2595
04:57:33,440 --> 04:57:38,798
wildfires can get away on us. And
there's no check and balance for us to

2596
04:57:37,120 --> 04:57:42,160
say, "Hey, no, wait. Let us come look at
this and see if it's safe for you to

2597
04:57:40,638 --> 04:57:46,080
burn it or do you have the appropriate
means to extinguish it or are you going

2598
04:57:43,840 --> 04:57:48,958
to be able to to look after this burn
while you're burning it? Do you know

2599
04:57:47,360 --> 04:57:51,680
that the weather is going to change in 2
days from now and you need to make sure

2600
04:57:50,240 --> 04:57:55,040
it's extinguished? things like that.
That's what the intent is for is to put

2601
04:57:53,760 --> 04:58:00,080
that [snorts] check in place and try and
decrease the amount of escaped wildfires

2602
04:57:56,958 --> 04:58:03,360
we have from burns that are happening in
Clearwater County outside the forest

2603
04:58:01,760 --> 04:58:07,760
protection area. This spring is a great
example of that. We had almost 30

2604
04:58:05,680 --> 04:58:11,600
escaped wildfires in the non-forest
protection area in Clearwater County.

2605
04:58:09,840 --> 04:58:16,560
All of those was a response from us.
Usually multiple stations, you know, 15

2606
04:58:14,320 --> 04:58:22,000
to 20 firefighters from us for hours to
go and extinguish this. Risk to traffic

2607
04:58:19,200 --> 04:58:25,520
on highways because of smoke. Risk to
adjacent land owners, us having to

2608
04:58:23,760 --> 04:58:30,080
evacuate people from their homes
temporarily because a landowner let a

2609
04:58:28,240 --> 04:58:35,040
burn get away from them on an adjacent
parcel. Um, and we had a large response

2610
04:58:33,360 --> 04:58:40,400
from Alberta wildfire to many of those
fires as well. So the dollar value in

2611
04:58:37,120 --> 04:58:44,240
response to these fires is astronomical
in a in a year. When we talk about how

2612
04:58:42,240 --> 04:58:47,920
much we spend Clearwater County and
Alberta Forestry on responding to these

2613
04:58:46,160 --> 04:58:52,240
escaped wildfires, we're trying to
decrease that. We were lucky this year

2614
04:58:50,160 --> 04:58:55,760
that the mutual aid assistance program
came into effect where Alberta Wildfire

2615
04:58:54,080 --> 04:59:01,680
will come and assist us on these fires
outside the FBA and the first $125,000

2616
04:58:59,120 --> 04:59:06,000
of that response is is a wash. They
won't bill us for it. But the second a

2617
04:59:03,600 --> 04:59:12,638
fire goes over that, which can happen
really quickly depending on what's going

2618
04:59:07,600 --> 04:59:17,520
on, um, we start as the county receiving
bills from the province. And because we

2619
04:59:15,520 --> 04:59:21,840
don't have a bylaw in place, we have no
way of penalizing those individuals or

2620
04:59:20,080 --> 04:59:26,560
trying to recuperate any of those costs.
that every other land owner in

2621
04:59:23,920 --> 04:59:30,080
Clearwater County that is burning safely
is now on the hook for their tax dollars

2622
04:59:28,400 --> 04:59:34,638
paying for that individual that wasn't
burning safely because we have no way of

2623
04:59:32,480 --> 04:59:38,638
recovering that or or penalizing that
individual. And we have been to repeat

2624
04:59:37,040 --> 04:59:42,160
offenders year over year over year,
sometimes the same individual in the

2625
04:59:40,400 --> 04:59:46,400
same year or we go back to the same
property for unsafe burns or people not

2626
04:59:44,718 --> 04:59:49,840
extinguishing piles correctly or burning
them in areas they shouldn't be burning.

2627
04:59:48,160 --> 04:59:54,000
and we're trying to reduce that and put
some mechanisms in place where we have

2628
04:59:51,520 --> 04:59:58,718
some enforcable means in a bylaw to to
decrease that from happening. That's

2629
04:59:56,638 --> 05:00:02,718
that's why the permitting piece exists
in here. That's why we've put everything

2630
05:00:00,000 --> 05:00:06,080
into the bylaw to try and manage it
similarly to wildfire. Not just to

2631
05:00:04,480 --> 05:00:09,200
decrease confusion to the public, but
actually put something enforceable in

2632
05:00:07,520 --> 05:00:13,840
place to decrease the frequency of us
going to these fires. It is a it is a

2633
05:00:11,600 --> 05:00:20,080
significant energy for us in the spring
that I I we ran for probably two and a

2634
05:00:16,958 --> 05:00:23,440
half weeks in May, April 28th to May
15th this year. We were out on at least

2635
05:00:22,240 --> 05:00:27,920
one if not more than [clears throat] one
a day north and south, east and west. We

2636
05:00:25,760 --> 05:00:32,240
had fire trucks all over the county with
wildfire, helicopters, crews all over

2637
05:00:29,840 --> 05:00:36,320
the place chasing escaped wildfires. And
all but one of them was natural cause,

2638
05:00:34,320 --> 05:00:39,600
was human caused. Only one was lightning
cost. every other one was human cause

2639
05:00:38,240 --> 05:00:44,560
and the majority of them was people
either willfully burning when they

2640
05:00:41,280 --> 05:00:49,200
shouldn't or an a brush pile that was
burnt two weeks before that that they

2641
05:00:46,958 --> 05:00:54,480
didn't extinguish properly.
And I I'll just add to that that that's

2642
05:00:52,080 --> 05:00:58,958
why initially the the first iteration of
the bylaw presented to you required year

2643
05:00:56,638 --> 05:01:04,160
round permitting from our side was
because we wanted to know where people

2644
05:01:01,040 --> 05:01:08,400
were burning all times because a a fire
in

2645
05:01:06,160 --> 05:01:12,440
December, January
can show itself in May.

2646
05:01:12,798 --> 05:01:21,200
Okay. So the way way we have it now
it would be permitted

2647
05:01:19,280 --> 05:01:25,040
March fire season, right?
>> March 1st to October 31st.

2648
05:01:23,040 --> 05:01:30,160
» Yeah.
>> Okay. I can probably wrap my head around

2649
05:01:26,958 --> 05:01:35,680
that one. Um there has to be some time
in the winter when uh when people can

2650
05:01:33,120 --> 05:01:40,878
responsibly go out and just if it snows
a foot on Friday night,

2651
05:01:38,958 --> 05:01:45,360
they can light that brush pile. And I
think the the intent of the the force

2652
05:01:43,120 --> 05:01:49,680
protection having the March 1st, October
31st was to direct most people to

2653
05:01:47,680 --> 05:01:50,718
burning in the winter months when it was
safer.

2654
05:01:50,320 --> 05:01:54,240
» Yeah.
>> Right. [snorts] And um you know, Chief

2655
05:01:52,718 --> 05:01:58,080
Neck alluded to the reason why we
originally came with year round is

2656
05:01:55,840 --> 05:02:01,600
because we are seeing that fire season
extend in the spring. It's happening

2657
05:01:59,760 --> 05:02:06,480
earlier. It's going later in the fall.
And there is talk at the provincial

2658
05:02:03,680 --> 05:02:09,680
level now uh of them changing the act
for year- round permitting as well. that

2659
05:02:08,000 --> 05:02:13,840
hasn't come to fruition. But if that
happens, we may be back in front of

2660
05:02:11,840 --> 05:02:18,080
council in coming years to ask to amend
that to realign with year- round

2661
05:02:15,520 --> 05:02:21,600
permitting. But the the reason being is
that you guys have probably heard in in

2662
05:02:20,240 --> 05:02:25,200
the news quite a bit about these, they
call them zombie fires in the media, but

2663
05:02:23,440 --> 05:02:29,520
essentially the industry term is a
holdover fire. That can be days, it can

2664
05:02:27,280 --> 05:02:33,920
be months, it can be a fire that burned
last year that burns all winter

2665
05:02:31,680 --> 05:02:37,440
underground and then re reignites in the
spring. They happen more than you'd

2666
05:02:35,360 --> 05:02:40,400
think. Uh with our drought codes
becoming higher and higher in the

2667
05:02:38,958 --> 05:02:45,040
province every year. It's a big problem
up north. It's been a problem in the

2668
05:02:42,000 --> 05:02:48,320
south. Um anytime you burn on an old
standard timber where there's a lot of

2669
05:02:46,320 --> 05:02:53,440
what we call duff soil or or burnable
organic soil or on a muskag pete pete

2670
05:02:51,680 --> 05:02:58,400
field, things like that, if they burn on
that, if they're not dug up down to

2671
05:02:55,360 --> 05:03:03,280
mineral soil, they very commonly burn
below grade and will smolder all winter.

2672
05:03:01,040 --> 05:03:08,638
And then as soon as we have our hot,
dry, uh, southeast winds that we

2673
05:03:05,600 --> 05:03:11,040
generally get in the in the spring dip,
they wake up and away they go. And

2674
05:03:10,320 --> 05:03:14,320
everybody thought they were
extinguished, but they take off on

2675
05:03:12,480 --> 05:03:18,160
people. And we've seen that as a
municipal fire service here. We've we've

2676
05:03:15,840 --> 05:03:23,680
had a fire up north of Leyville that
showed up three years in a row. Mhm.

2677
05:03:20,878 --> 05:03:29,200
» And and so so f further to that, you
know, while having our mimic uh the

2678
05:03:27,520 --> 05:03:35,520
forest protection area during fire
season uh is acceptable to me is because

2679
05:03:32,878 --> 05:03:43,600
this bylaw also includes new provisions
for us to uh pursue that negligence if

2680
05:03:40,080 --> 05:03:46,638
if that's the case. Um because as as
much as I agree with you that, you know,

2681
05:03:45,040 --> 05:03:50,160
it snows a foot on Friday night and
people should be able to go out there

2682
05:03:47,600 --> 05:03:54,718
and light their brush pile up and and
dispose of it, I want them to go out

2683
05:03:52,320 --> 05:03:59,920
there with that same enthusiasm uh to
make sure it's extinguished, which which

2684
05:03:57,280 --> 05:04:03,760
is really the problem. Um people aren't
following up on the extinguishment side.

2685
05:04:02,000 --> 05:04:09,280
It's easy to throw the match. It's a lot
more difficult to uh to ensure that fire

2686
05:04:06,638 --> 05:04:13,440
is out. and this new [clears throat]
bylaw the way it's written uh would

2687
05:04:11,360 --> 05:04:18,718
allow us at least to follow up with that
person whether permanent or not

2688
05:04:16,560 --> 05:04:24,160
um depending on on the fire season time.
So I I agree aligning for for

2689
05:04:20,958 --> 05:04:29,520
consistency um [snorts] across you know
the entire entirety of Clearwater County

2690
05:04:27,040 --> 05:04:34,718
uh and try to eliminate that this side
that side of the line um works great for

2691
05:04:32,000 --> 05:04:40,240
me. It's a it's a good suggestion. Um,
but more importantly, this bylaw allows

2692
05:04:36,638 --> 05:04:46,400
us to to follow up when when uh required
or needed.

2693
05:04:43,200 --> 05:04:51,760
» Yeah. I I uh I'm just not a big
proponent of you've got a few bad apples

2694
05:04:48,958 --> 05:04:56,878
and we and we go out and we penalize
everybody because some people don't use

2695
05:04:54,638 --> 05:05:00,160
their head and don't think, oh, this,
you know, it's dry. I'm going to light

2696
05:04:58,638 --> 05:05:05,600
it anyhow because I got to get it burnt.
That's a bad idea. But then we punish

2697
05:05:02,718 --> 05:05:12,400
everybody. So that's why I've got all
these questions and and stuff on on

2698
05:05:09,520 --> 05:05:16,000
these issues cuz I I've never been a fan
of that. You know, if we've got a few

2699
05:05:13,840 --> 05:05:19,120
bad apples, well, let's deal with the
bad apples,

2700
05:05:17,840 --> 05:05:23,600
» right? Okay.
>> CEO Simpson, go ahead, please.

2701
05:05:21,040 --> 05:05:26,718
» Just to to point out, without the bylaw,
we can't even punish the bad apples. And

2702
05:05:25,360 --> 05:05:30,480
the good apples wouldn't receive any
punishment if they were following the

2703
05:05:28,000 --> 05:05:34,000
specs. Just to make council aware, one
of the questions that I will direct my

2704
05:05:32,080 --> 05:05:38,240
fire chief and the deputy chief to
examine is whether or not the greater

2705
05:05:36,160 --> 05:05:41,200
permissions around fire pit sizes and
such may have any impact on our

2706
05:05:39,600 --> 05:05:45,920
insurance or whether it may negatively
impact the insurance eligibility

2707
05:05:44,000 --> 05:05:48,638
eligibility, sorry, for the folks who
have those larger ones. That's just

2708
05:05:47,440 --> 05:05:52,240
something that wasn't covered in
discussion. And at all times when we

2709
05:05:50,638 --> 05:05:56,560
talk about fires, the other side of the
coin is insurance coverage. So, we will

2710
05:05:55,040 --> 05:06:00,480
also try to get some information on that
to inform council when they're having

2711
05:05:58,718 --> 05:06:05,760
these conversations. I think it's great
that we're considering the enjoyment of

2712
05:06:02,798 --> 05:06:09,440
use for the rateayers. However, uh our
duty must also examine that liability

2713
05:06:08,000 --> 05:06:14,560
coverage and whether we increase our own
risk for being named as an additional in

2714
05:06:11,600 --> 05:06:18,878
a lawsuit where a claim was successfully
awarded due to something that was

2715
05:06:16,798 --> 05:06:22,878
permitted in our fire bylaw, such as an
overly large fire pit size. Now, that's

2716
05:06:20,878 --> 05:06:25,840
an outside gamble, but I think it's
prudent that we examine that. So, just

2717
05:06:24,400 --> 05:06:28,560
be aware. Hopefully, we'll have some
answers on that, too, whether it

2718
05:06:27,040 --> 05:06:33,200
increases or doesn't make any difference
at all whether it changes our premiums,

2719
05:06:30,878 --> 05:06:37,440
whether rateayers may want to know that
having a a fire pit that's 5t wide as

2720
05:06:35,680 --> 05:06:41,040
opposed to the provincial standard of 24
in, which may or may not be considered

2721
05:06:39,680 --> 05:06:43,600
by the courts as the reasonable
standard. And we talked about that the

2722
05:06:42,320 --> 05:06:46,958
last time this came up about what
reasonable would be. So I will be

2723
05:06:45,840 --> 05:06:49,920
directing them to do that and hopefully
they'll have some answers for you by the

2724
05:06:48,240 --> 05:06:55,760
time this comes back if that's okay.
>> Excellent. Thank you. CEO Emmens um to

2725
05:06:54,160 --> 05:06:59,200
bring back that information for council
consideration. Um would administration

2726
05:06:58,080 --> 05:07:04,718
if you've been able to capture
discussions taking place by council or

2727
05:07:01,280 --> 05:07:09,400
is a motion required?
I was just uh looking to administration

2728
05:07:06,400 --> 05:07:09,400
for

2729
05:07:10,480 --> 05:07:17,040
» Okay. So, okay. So, I'm getting no
motion would be required. Administration

2730
05:07:15,520 --> 05:07:22,000
will bring that information forward.
>> I am hearing from my uh legislative

2731
05:07:19,760 --> 05:07:26,376
coordinator that a specific motion would
be best.

2732
05:07:22,718 --> 05:07:26,376
» Yeah, absolutely. Okay. [clears throat]

2733
05:07:27,680 --> 05:07:34,560
Before we get to a motion, I'm going to
defer to councelor Powell.

2734
05:07:32,080 --> 05:07:40,718
» It's kind of passed now, but I just
thank you for everything you do. I have

2735
05:07:36,080 --> 05:07:45,040
been firsthandly experienced 5t of snow.
people burning and then in the spring

2736
05:07:42,718 --> 05:07:49,520
they were huge huge brush piles and they
did start back up and it happens quite

2737
05:07:47,040 --> 05:07:53,600
often more than people I think realize
and no matter how responsible you are

2738
05:07:51,520 --> 05:07:58,480
stuff does happen and I totally think
that even though this may seem like red

2739
05:07:55,920 --> 05:08:01,200
tape to some people fire is so dangerous
and it moves so quickly and I just want

2740
05:07:59,920 --> 05:08:04,718
to thank you guys so much for everything
that you did this spring because I have

2741
05:08:02,718 --> 05:08:09,600
firsthandly seen people who I thought
had were being responsible fires take

2742
05:08:07,440 --> 05:08:15,120
off like crazy and when they go across
those fields they go fast. So, thanks

2743
05:08:11,440 --> 05:08:19,600
for everything you're doing,
>> Councelor Serach.

2744
05:08:16,400 --> 05:08:25,920
» Yeah, getting to the fire bits. If we're
going to go the 50% larger

2745
05:08:23,680 --> 05:08:32,638
and there was two to my questions and
one was the insurance. I was going to

2746
05:08:28,638 --> 05:08:38,638
ask that the CEO already did, but mine
is that if we're going to go 50% larger

2747
05:08:35,440 --> 05:08:46,440
on the fire itself, then are we going to
go 50% larger on the non-combustible

2748
05:08:43,120 --> 05:08:46,440
around it?

2749
05:08:46,878 --> 05:08:54,878
Uh right now, counselor, uh I'm not I'm
not sure. I'll explore that as we do the

2750
05:08:52,638 --> 05:08:59,040
research around uh what that might look
like.

2751
05:08:56,160 --> 05:09:02,958
um
potentially I I I just can't say without

2752
05:09:01,440 --> 05:09:05,600
kind of doing some homework on that for
you.

2753
05:09:03,280 --> 05:09:09,840
» Okay.
>> Thank you.

2754
05:09:08,160 --> 05:09:13,840
» Okay. So, we're going to attempt a
motion here uh to capture the discussion

2755
05:09:11,760 --> 05:09:19,680
that has taken place here today. And
that was the fire pit size,

2756
05:09:16,560 --> 05:09:22,680
the firework permitting,
the

2757
05:09:23,040 --> 05:09:27,400
dates in the fire protection area.

2758
05:09:31,280 --> 05:09:40,240
Is that the three items that uh
CEO Simpson?

2759
05:09:37,760 --> 05:09:44,638
» Uh also just a question on firecrackers
because um there was one comment on it.

2760
05:09:43,040 --> 05:09:48,560
uh it was pointed out we can't enforce
it and it would fall to the RCMP. So the

2761
05:09:47,040 --> 05:09:52,400
plain question to council on that one
would be do you want us to remove that

2762
05:09:50,638 --> 05:09:56,718
definition and not have our peace
officers be able to respond and enforce

2763
05:09:54,080 --> 05:10:00,718
it and leave that to the RCMP.
I would suggest that it is highly

2764
05:09:59,120 --> 05:10:04,560
unlikely they will attend that call if
they are dealing with other files.

2765
05:10:02,080 --> 05:10:09,520
However, we don't necessarily have peace
officers working the night shift either.

2766
05:10:06,878 --> 05:10:14,560
So, do you want us to just pull that one
out or leave it in and leave it subject

2767
05:10:12,878 --> 05:10:18,560
to the discretion of any peace officer
that's called at the time? But I have a

2768
05:10:16,718 --> 05:10:23,830
question, CI Simpsons. Would our peace
officers have jurisdiction to enforce

2769
05:10:20,560 --> 05:10:25,760
that for firecrackers?
[snorts]

2770
05:10:23,920 --> 05:10:30,160
» Not without it being included in this
bylaw

2771
05:10:28,718 --> 05:10:33,680
» because we don't have the ability to
enforce under the act for the

2772
05:10:32,400 --> 05:10:38,878
designation of authority that peace
officers hold. So, um, they have limited

2773
05:10:37,120 --> 05:10:42,798
jurisdiction in certain statutes such as
the upward of traffic safety act, I

2774
05:10:41,040 --> 05:10:46,718
believe, is one of them, right? But they
can't do firecrackers, but if you put it

2775
05:10:44,400 --> 05:10:49,920
in the bylaw, yes, we could impose our
own municipal tags for violations with

2776
05:10:48,400 --> 05:10:52,920
respect to possession and discharge of
firecrackers.

2777
05:10:54,160 --> 05:10:58,798
» Councelor Pal,
>> I guess I would just comment on that if

2778
05:10:57,200 --> 05:11:03,600
it was referred by legal, there may be
some legal. I'm not a lawyer. And if if

2779
05:11:01,600 --> 05:11:06,718
legal has
asked that it be in there and that we

2780
05:11:05,280 --> 05:11:09,760
didn't put it in there, sorry, you guys
didn't put it in there. If legal has

2781
05:11:08,080 --> 05:11:13,440
requested it to be in there, maybe
there's a reason that they have that

2782
05:11:11,760 --> 05:11:17,680
none of us here are aware of. And that
probably before it's taken out should,

2783
05:11:16,000 --> 05:11:21,440
in my opinion, maybe be looked at. Just
a suggestion.

2784
05:11:19,520 --> 05:11:25,040
» We can bring the rationale around the
firecracker piece back as part of that

2785
05:11:23,440 --> 05:11:27,600
discussion with the other information if
council wishes. That would be prudent

2786
05:11:26,560 --> 05:11:31,120
perhaps.
>> Okay. If council's going to take the

2787
05:11:29,600 --> 05:11:34,080
time and administration has presented a
lot of information to council, if we're

2788
05:11:32,718 --> 05:11:38,240
going to adopt a bylaw, we should do it
the right way. So, um, I'm going to move

2789
05:11:36,240 --> 05:11:44,160
that council direct administration to
bring back additional information

2790
05:11:39,760 --> 05:11:49,920
regarding the fire pit sizes,
firework permitting,

2791
05:11:47,600 --> 05:11:54,798
firecrackers,
and the dates of the fire protection

2792
05:11:52,080 --> 05:11:58,718
area.
I think that captured most of the

2793
05:11:56,160 --> 05:12:04,000
discussion.
Miss Thompson,

2794
05:12:00,718 --> 05:12:08,560
» I had it noted to clarify whether it's
beneficial or not to differentiate

2795
05:12:06,400 --> 05:12:12,240
between the FPA and the non-FPA. Do you
want that included or not?

2796
05:12:10,320 --> 05:12:18,280
» Yes, please include that in in the
information that'll be brought back to

2797
05:12:13,600 --> 05:12:18,280
council for future consideration.

2798
05:12:19,920 --> 05:12:26,000
Miss Thompson, have you been able to
capture the motion?

2799
05:12:23,360 --> 05:12:29,760
would uh just for council's
information if we can get a repeat of

2800
05:12:27,760 --> 05:12:33,360
that motion and then we'll have a vote
>> that council direct administration to

2801
05:12:31,600 --> 05:12:39,280
bring back further information regarding
allowable fire pit sizes firework

2802
05:12:36,240 --> 05:12:43,280
permitting the dates of the fire season
rationale surrounding firecrackers and

2803
05:12:41,680 --> 05:12:49,280
whether it's beneficial or not to
differentiate between the FPA and non

2804
05:12:46,400 --> 05:12:52,878
FPR FBA.
>> Okay,

2805
05:12:50,878 --> 05:12:56,480
thank you Miss Thompson. Seeing no
further discussion, I'll call the

2806
05:12:54,240 --> 05:13:01,440
question on that motion. All those in
favor

2807
05:12:58,718 --> 05:13:07,920
and those opposed. That motion is
supported by the majority of council.

2808
05:13:05,840 --> 05:13:13,600
Thank you again to chief and deputy
chief for all the information. And uh

2809
05:13:11,120 --> 05:13:20,440
move into item
actually looking at item 6.3. We need a

2810
05:13:16,000 --> 05:13:20,440
motion to postpone item 6.3.

2811
05:13:21,760 --> 05:13:26,080
Council, that one. You're willing to
make the motion to postpone item 6.3. I

2812
05:13:25,520 --> 05:13:30,440
see.
>> Okay, I'll make that motion to postpone

2813
05:13:31,360 --> 05:13:35,440
» 6.3.
>> Excellent.

2814
05:13:33,200 --> 05:13:39,920
» We have a motion from councelor Lewin to
postpone

2815
05:13:36,958 --> 05:13:45,520
bylaw 26103, revising former village of
Caroline Community Standards bylaw.

2816
05:13:42,560 --> 05:13:51,360
I've got a question. All those in favor?
That motion is carried.

2817
05:13:48,798 --> 05:13:55,600
I'm going to go back to item 7.1.1 which
is the Caroline 4-way stop. That item

2818
05:13:53,840 --> 05:13:58,878
was tabled.
So, um

2819
05:13:57,760 --> 05:14:04,240
I'll [clears throat] move that we lift
item 7.1.1 from the table. That is the

2820
05:14:02,240 --> 05:14:08,240
motion on the floor to lift it from the
table. Call question. All those in

2821
05:14:05,920 --> 05:14:11,520
favor?
Motion is carried. Councelor Lewin, do

2822
05:14:10,320 --> 05:14:13,120
you have comments?
>> No, I have my hand up.

2823
05:14:12,718 --> 05:14:17,040
» Okay,
>> we voted.

2824
05:14:14,320 --> 05:14:20,638
» Yes. Yeah. No. Excellent. I just seen
your light was on so I just wasn't sure

2825
05:14:18,320 --> 05:14:26,320
if you had any comments that you wanted.
>> All is good. So moving back to item

2826
05:14:23,600 --> 05:14:32,638
7.1.1 which is regarding the Caroline
four-way stop and I see that

2827
05:14:29,040 --> 05:14:35,638
um director Magnus has joined us here
again.

2828
05:14:35,760 --> 05:14:41,680
I would like to uh do you have any
comments Mr. Magnus at this time or if

2829
05:14:39,360 --> 05:14:46,160
not I do have a proposed motion.
>> Uh no no comments at this time.

2830
05:14:44,000 --> 05:14:49,520
» Thank you very much Director Magnus. So
on this item, I'll move uh that council

2831
05:14:48,000 --> 05:14:53,760
direct administration to draft a letter
to the Ministry of Transportation and

2832
05:14:51,120 --> 05:14:58,638
Economic Corridors requesting a review
and consideration of implementing the

2833
05:14:56,160 --> 05:15:03,360
following. The four-way stop be
implemented to a two-way stop at the

2834
05:15:01,360 --> 05:15:06,638
concerned intersection.
Number two,

2835
05:15:05,280 --> 05:15:12,400
the maximum speed limit through the
Hamletic Airline on Highway 54 be

2836
05:15:08,560 --> 05:15:16,400
decreased from 50 km an hour to 30 km/h.
Item three, a digital speed warning

2837
05:15:14,080 --> 05:15:22,000
device be placed on both east and west
portion of Highway 54 within the Hamlet

2838
05:15:18,798 --> 05:15:26,560
of Caroline. Number four, a placement of
no engine retarder brakes signage on

2839
05:15:24,480 --> 05:15:30,798
Highway 54 prior to entering the Hamlet
of Caroline. And number five, the

2840
05:15:28,958 --> 05:15:37,240
placement of crosswalk with indicator
lights crossing Highway 54 at the

2841
05:15:33,760 --> 05:15:37,240
concerned intersection.

2842
05:15:38,160 --> 05:15:44,798
That is the motion on the floor.
Director Magnus

2843
05:15:42,160 --> 05:15:48,160
» that uh I concur with those uh
recommendations.

2844
05:15:46,080 --> 05:15:50,958
» Excellent. Thank you for your input.
Deputy Reeve,

2845
05:15:49,280 --> 05:15:55,520
» just one quick question. Ree, just
regarding the uh the speed limit through

2846
05:15:53,200 --> 05:16:01,760
Caroline with that
30 km an hour then be placed out at the

2847
05:15:58,400 --> 05:16:07,440
museum where the current 50 is
that might be problematic.

2848
05:16:03,920 --> 05:16:13,360
» Yeah. So typically what happens is um
there is a progression. So they'll Yeah,

2849
05:16:10,878 --> 05:16:18,080
exactly. do that. They'll probably leave
the 50 and then it then it goes down to

2850
05:16:16,320 --> 05:16:20,480
30 typically. That's how the sign
package goes.

2851
05:16:18,878 --> 05:16:23,600
» I just want to clarify. Thank you.
You're welcome.

2852
05:16:22,240 --> 05:16:26,958
And uh some of that additional
information would come back from Alberta

2853
05:16:25,280 --> 05:16:31,680
Transportation Economic Corridors with
the review of that intersection and

2854
05:16:28,400 --> 05:16:34,798
maybe this is the best solution um to
currently leave status quo with the

2855
05:16:33,200 --> 05:16:38,160
four-way stop that might come out of
that review or there might be a better

2856
05:16:36,560 --> 05:16:43,920
option to better serve the community.
Councelor Humphrey, I just had a couple

2857
05:16:41,040 --> 05:16:49,760
things. So there is not a engine
retarder brake sign at either ends of

2858
05:16:47,040 --> 05:16:54,400
the town currently.
>> Okay. Yeah. Not that I'm aware of at

2859
05:16:51,600 --> 05:16:57,280
this time unless we've Northcaught. Uh
>> that's odd because

2860
05:16:56,160 --> 05:17:01,760
» because there should have been a long
time ago. Most towns have that when

2861
05:16:59,760 --> 05:17:09,440
you're coming into most.
>> So I was just surprised. And uh

2862
05:17:05,200 --> 05:17:15,680
» my my next concern would be on the on
the four-way stop. We're talking just a

2863
05:17:12,000 --> 05:17:18,718
two-way. So the there just be
the requirement to stop going east and

2864
05:17:18,080 --> 05:17:22,958
west.
>> That's correct.

2865
05:17:20,718 --> 05:17:27,440
So then um I'm I'm wondering how that
would be better than having a stop and

2866
05:17:25,440 --> 05:17:33,600
go because you could end up sitting at
those other ones for a long time before

2867
05:17:28,958 --> 05:17:38,400
you got through. I I just seems
I I thought maybe we'd be wanting a

2868
05:17:36,080 --> 05:17:42,718
four-way rather than a cuz it it
regulates your traffic. It completely

2869
05:17:40,958 --> 05:17:47,280
stops the traffic and what happens or
what I've observed is it actually

2870
05:17:43,920 --> 05:17:49,760
creates congestion and traffic backup.
um

2871
05:17:48,878 --> 05:17:53,360
the uh community.
>> Oh, so you're having you're thinking

2872
05:17:51,120 --> 05:17:56,000
stop signs just on the north south,
>> right?

2873
05:17:54,080 --> 05:17:58,878
» Yeah, that's why I said east west. So
you're you're talking taking it out on

2874
05:17:57,840 --> 05:18:00,958
the highway.
>> Yeah, you would flow through going east

2875
05:18:00,480 --> 05:18:06,798
west.
>> East west 30 km an hour rather than 50.

2876
05:18:04,480 --> 05:18:09,040
» Okay. So traffic going north and south
would stop.

2877
05:18:07,360 --> 05:18:13,440
» Yeah. I I was thinking, oh, you're going
to take the stop signs out going north

2878
05:18:11,280 --> 05:18:15,680
and south and you sit there for days to
get through.

2879
05:18:14,560 --> 05:18:19,680
» Okay.
>> Yeah. Yeah, clarification on which is

2880
05:18:17,920 --> 05:18:20,718
the two-way stop should be added to
that.

2881
05:18:20,080 --> 05:18:22,878
» It is.
>> Okay.

2882
05:18:21,040 --> 05:18:24,958
» Yeah, we mentioned I missed that. I'm so
sorry.

2883
05:18:23,360 --> 05:18:29,520
» Yeah, we mentioned and our apologies.
Yeah, Ree Northcut during the uh putting

2884
05:18:27,920 --> 05:18:33,600
the motion forward. It's that we
specifically asked for 50th Street.

2885
05:18:32,160 --> 05:18:37,040
» Okay.
>> Yeah.

2886
05:18:36,400 --> 05:18:42,240
» Yeah,
>> that makes sense. Didn't make sense.

2887
05:18:40,400 --> 05:18:45,680
So, and and like I say, it's just
requesting review and possible

2888
05:18:43,760 --> 05:18:50,320
consideration of implementation of this.
Um, it might be identified that the the

2889
05:18:48,320 --> 05:18:57,280
current four-way stop is the best to
serve the community. So,

2890
05:18:54,000 --> 05:18:58,718
with that being said, uh, director
>> Yeah.

2891
05:18:57,680 --> 05:19:03,360
» Magnus, do you have any further
comments?

2892
05:19:01,200 --> 05:19:07,760
Yeah, what we found is uh with uh
Alberta transportation economic

2893
05:19:04,958 --> 05:19:13,040
corridors is to u be as specific as
possible and usually we found most

2894
05:19:09,760 --> 05:19:16,798
success with that um number of years
ago, two three years ago and Reeve

2895
05:19:15,040 --> 05:19:23,840
Northcot was involved in that too in
highway 54 and 22 in regards to um that

2896
05:19:20,798 --> 05:19:32,320
intersection and uh we specifically
asked them uh uh provided some requests

2897
05:19:27,280 --> 05:19:37,680
and uh actually they where they uh um um
agreed with it. I believe if you

2898
05:19:34,400 --> 05:19:41,360
remember uh Reef Northcot and us putting
the letter forward to them, it ended up

2899
05:19:39,280 --> 05:19:47,920
being a flashing stop sign [snorts]
and rumble strips. At that time that was

2900
05:19:44,240 --> 05:19:52,718
not there and uh so we tried to be as
specific as possible and um they

2901
05:19:50,480 --> 05:19:58,160
reviewed that intersection and they
agreed with us and implemented. So, like

2902
05:19:55,600 --> 05:20:02,718
Reeve Northcot indicated as well, uh
they may come back upon the review and

2903
05:20:00,320 --> 05:20:08,080
stick to the four-way stop, but
nonetheless, we may still be successful

2904
05:20:05,840 --> 05:20:13,520
in some of the other requests in regards
to that. So, yeah.

2905
05:20:11,680 --> 05:20:17,600
Okay. Seeing Thank you very much,
Director Magnus, for that. I'm seeing no

2906
05:20:15,440 --> 05:20:24,360
further discussion. Um I'll call the
question. All those in favor?

2907
05:20:20,080 --> 05:20:24,360
And that motion is supported by council.

2908
05:20:27,120 --> 05:20:32,600
Moving on in our agenda to item 7.2.1.

2909
05:20:33,760 --> 05:20:40,160
It is the is under agricultural and
community services the Alberta community

2910
05:20:37,840 --> 05:20:45,638
partnership intermunicial collaboration
grant application. It is on page 93.

2911
05:20:51,360 --> 05:20:55,240
Welcome director Van Newkerk.

2912
05:20:58,240 --> 05:21:04,560
» Good afternoon council.
Um as the reef mentioned, this is in

2913
05:21:03,200 --> 05:21:09,920
regard to the Alberta Community
Partnership um intermunicipal

2914
05:21:07,120 --> 05:21:13,680
collaboration grant application.
For some background information, the

2915
05:21:12,080 --> 05:21:18,878
town of Rocky Mountainhouse has started
the process of engaging consultants to

2916
05:21:15,520 --> 05:21:21,600
prepare a multiplex concept plan. The
town council and Clearwater

2917
05:21:20,146 --> 05:21:24,958
[clears throat] Council have met to
discuss the project and the town has

2918
05:21:23,120 --> 05:21:30,240
requested that the county reallocate
$50,000 from the recreation expansion

2919
05:21:27,600 --> 05:21:34,638
expansion concept drawings
project which was a carry forward

2920
05:21:31,840 --> 05:21:39,680
project from the 2025 to the new
multiplex concept plan project and

2921
05:21:36,718 --> 05:21:44,878
approve the submission of the ASP ACP
grant application. There is an

2922
05:21:42,000 --> 05:21:48,878
opportunity to apply for up to $150,000
from the Alberta Community Partnership

2923
05:21:46,878 --> 05:21:54,000
Intermunicipal Collaboration Grant
Program to help fund the multiplex

2924
05:21:51,200 --> 05:22:00,160
concept plan project. Maximum pro
provincial support per IC project

2925
05:21:56,480 --> 05:22:04,878
reduced to $150,000 from 200,000 to
enable extended program reach. There is

2926
05:22:02,798 --> 05:22:10,160
a cost share requirement introducing a
10% municipal contribution toward total

2927
05:22:08,080 --> 05:22:14,400
project costs.
The cost share requirement will need to

2928
05:22:12,160 --> 05:22:19,520
be met by the town and county's budget
commitment for the project. As part of

2929
05:22:17,120 --> 05:22:23,920
the ACP grant application, both the town
and county must provide a resolution

2930
05:22:21,440 --> 05:22:28,560
approving the submission of the ACP
grant application.

2931
05:22:25,920 --> 05:22:32,000
The town of Rocky Mountain House um town
council has passed a resolution

2932
05:22:30,320 --> 05:22:36,240
supporting the grant application at
their September 1st, 2026 regular

2933
05:22:34,080 --> 05:22:40,400
council meeting. The deadline for
submitting the application is October

2934
05:22:37,840 --> 05:22:46,240
1st, 2026. While no funds have been
expended to date, the grant is

2935
05:22:41,920 --> 05:22:52,080
retroactive to April 1st, 2026.
And we do have two recommendations for

2936
05:22:48,638 --> 05:22:56,400
this as it's kind of a two uh part uh
recommendation. Uh firstly, that council

2937
05:22:54,798 --> 05:23:00,718
support the town proceeding with the
submission of the Alberta Community

2938
05:22:58,000 --> 05:23:05,120
Partnership intermunicipal collaboration
grant application for the multiplex. And

2939
05:23:03,680 --> 05:23:08,718
then secondly, the council direct
administration to draft a letter of

2940
05:23:06,638 --> 05:23:14,080
support for the Alberta Community
Partnership intermunicipal collaboration

2941
05:23:10,878 --> 05:23:19,798
grant application for the multiplex
project to be included um in the town's

2942
05:23:16,798 --> 05:23:19,798
application.

2943
05:23:19,840 --> 05:23:27,680
And that's all I've got on that.
Thank you for Thank you, Director

2944
05:23:25,908 --> 05:23:32,200
[clears throat] Newkerk.
Council comments, questions, or motions.

2945
05:23:33,120 --> 05:23:38,480
» Deputy Ree, go ahead.
>> Thanks. I'll make the first motion the

2946
05:23:37,040 --> 05:23:42,240
council support the town proceeding with
the submission of the Alberta Community

2947
05:23:39,840 --> 05:23:46,480
Partnership Intermunicipal Collaboration
Grant for the multiplex project.

2948
05:23:45,120 --> 05:23:51,920
» Okay, we have a motion on the floor from
Deputy Re.

2949
05:23:49,600 --> 05:23:54,878
As he's indicated, the council that
council supports town proceeding with

2950
05:23:53,280 --> 05:23:59,920
the submission of the Alberta Community
Partnership intermunicipal collaboration

2951
05:23:56,638 --> 05:24:05,200
grant application for the multiplex
project. Seeing no discussion,

2952
05:24:02,560 --> 05:24:10,480
councelor.
So the second recommendation says to be

2953
05:24:08,480 --> 05:24:16,080
included in the town's application. Do
we we would not want to include it with

2954
05:24:13,360 --> 05:24:20,400
or we got to make two motions.
>> Oh, good grief. Okay.

2955
05:24:18,080 --> 05:24:23,840
» Okay. as part of the requirements. Yeah.
>> So, two motions.

2956
05:24:21,760 --> 05:24:28,160
» Thank you for clarification.
>> Excellent. Motion on the floor from

2957
05:24:25,840 --> 05:24:31,200
Deputy Reeve Mccay. Seeing no further
discussion, I'll call the question. All

2958
05:24:29,280 --> 05:24:35,120
those in favor?
That motion is supported by councel?

2959
05:24:33,440 --> 05:24:37,840
Councelor Humphrey. I'd like to make a
motion that

2960
05:24:36,958 --> 05:24:41,360
council [clears throat]
direct administration to draft a letter

2961
05:24:39,680 --> 05:24:46,000
of support for the Alberta Community
Partnership intermunicipal collaboration

2962
05:24:43,600 --> 05:24:50,320
grant application for the multiplex
project to be included in the town's

2963
05:24:47,840 --> 05:24:54,718
application.
Excellent. I've officially placed that

2964
05:24:52,718 --> 05:24:59,120
motion that councelor has just indicated
on the floor for a vote. See no

2965
05:24:57,280 --> 05:25:03,520
discussion. I'll call the question. All
those in favor?

2966
05:25:01,440 --> 05:25:08,840
Those opposed?
Okay, that motion is supported by the

2967
05:25:05,440 --> 05:25:08,840
majority of council.

2968
05:25:12,878 --> 05:25:19,760
Moving on to item 7.3.1, development
node area structure plans and memorandum

2969
05:25:17,520 --> 05:25:25,680
of understanding. I do see that Miss
Gillum has joined us here today. So,

2970
05:25:22,480 --> 05:25:30,480
when you're when you're ready, Miss Gil.
>> Sorry, I was like, oh, I'm next.

2971
05:25:27,520 --> 05:25:34,480
» No worries. Uh,
>> whenever you're ready.

2972
05:25:31,520 --> 05:25:38,080
» Um, yeah. So, uh, members of council and
county administration met with two

2973
05:25:36,080 --> 05:25:42,240
branches of the provincial government,
Alberta tourism and sport and forestry

2974
05:25:40,160 --> 05:25:46,240
and parks to discuss changes to the
development node ASPs discussion about

2975
05:25:44,878 --> 05:25:50,080
uh, next steps based on feedback
received at the open houses. The county

2976
05:25:48,240 --> 05:25:54,320
hosted uh, this spring and the what we
heard report. The provincial

2977
05:25:51,840 --> 05:25:58,878
administration agreed uh, with council
that changes could be made to the ASPs

2978
05:25:56,400 --> 05:26:03,440
to suit the needs of both groups. So it
is uh was indicated that the memorandum

2979
05:26:01,280 --> 05:26:06,718
of understanding should be updated to
address the current desires. Further

2980
05:26:05,360 --> 05:26:11,040
administrative discussions will be
required to make those changes. Council

2981
05:26:08,958 --> 05:26:14,400
also requested that more research and
information be made available from the

2982
05:26:12,958 --> 05:26:18,160
province regarding support in these
areas. So administration is now bringing

2983
05:26:16,400 --> 05:26:22,798
this in to council for further
direction. So um we are asking that

2984
05:26:21,280 --> 05:26:26,320
council direct administration to work
with the province um the sorry the

2985
05:26:24,718 --> 05:26:29,680
provincial government to update and
renew the current memorandum of

2986
05:26:27,760 --> 05:26:33,040
understanding review and amend
development node area structure plans

2987
05:26:31,120 --> 05:26:37,120
and identify pressures and solutions
related to infrastructure operational

2988
05:26:35,040 --> 05:26:43,120
supports emergency response and v
visitor management strategy. Sorry.

2989
05:26:40,638 --> 05:26:47,040
» Excellent. Thank you Miss Gillum for
that. We'll open the floor for

2990
05:26:44,798 --> 05:26:51,440
discussion or comments. Deputy Ree go
ahead. Thank you. Uh I would make the

2991
05:26:49,520 --> 05:26:55,760
motion that council direct
administration to work with the province

2992
05:26:54,080 --> 05:27:02,200
to update and renew the current
memorandum of understanding and bring it

2993
05:26:58,160 --> 05:27:02,200
back to council for approval.

2994
05:27:04,400 --> 05:27:11,760
» Thank you for the motion, Deputy Reev.
Just a question for administration.

2995
05:27:07,680 --> 05:27:15,840
Prior to that, um, my my comment that
I'd like to make is will council have an

2996
05:27:14,000 --> 05:27:18,798
opportunity to provide input into this
memorandum of understanding?

2997
05:27:18,080 --> 05:27:23,160
» Yes.
>> Okay. Just wanted to have that clear

2998
05:27:23,440 --> 05:27:30,400
council.
>> So inut number on the staffing. Did I

2999
05:27:28,958 --> 05:27:35,120
just hear that correctly?
>> Yes. So if coun administration will make

3000
05:27:33,360 --> 05:27:39,840
amendments and then will that be sent to
council for consideration or input

3001
05:27:37,680 --> 05:27:43,600
» before the province is that correct?
>> Yeah, I think the discussions will be

3002
05:27:41,680 --> 05:27:46,320
had with theou with the province and
like administration will try to work

3003
05:27:44,958 --> 05:27:49,360
with the provincial administration to
come up with updates based on what we

3004
05:27:47,680 --> 05:27:52,718
had discussed and then we'll bring
something forward for you for you to

3005
05:27:50,718 --> 05:27:56,480
consider and then if council would have
to be comfortable that obviously before

3006
05:27:54,160 --> 05:28:00,080
anything was signed.
I just guess my concerns are the

3007
05:27:58,320 --> 05:28:03,280
province has their vision, Clearwater
County and its residents have their

3008
05:28:01,600 --> 05:28:08,958
vision when it comes to these
development notes. So th this is Yes.

3009
05:28:07,040 --> 05:28:12,798
Fair. Um the memorandum of understanding
is just agreement about how we work

3010
05:28:10,638 --> 05:28:16,878
together um with the the province and
and you guys would have the final

3011
05:28:14,718 --> 05:28:19,760
approval on that anyways. Yes.
>> Okay. Thank you.

3012
05:28:18,480 --> 05:28:25,120
Just to get a little bit more clarity,
Miss Gil, the perspectives from council,

3013
05:28:22,320 --> 05:28:28,400
can that input be gathered and put into
the memorandum of understanding before

3014
05:28:27,040 --> 05:28:33,360
it is sent to the province for their
consideration rather than having the

3015
05:28:31,120 --> 05:28:37,920
considerations of the province brought
back to council. Can we have that an

3016
05:28:35,760 --> 05:28:41,680
opportunity for council to have input
for a draft memorandum of understanding

3017
05:28:40,240 --> 05:28:46,240
to go to the province before it goes
there? I think I think they were going

3018
05:28:43,840 --> 05:28:50,718
to be drafting it with us andor drafting
it, but um James might have some other

3019
05:28:49,040 --> 05:28:54,718
thoughts.
>> Maybe I'll just Okay.

3020
05:28:53,120 --> 05:29:00,878
» Um
to the re uh to council um the

3021
05:28:58,878 --> 05:29:02,320
memorandum of understanding you already
have one.

3022
05:29:01,680 --> 05:29:08,400
» Y
>> this is updating and revising it. We

3023
05:29:06,240 --> 05:29:14,558
will have meetings with the province to
discuss what sort of items that they

3024
05:29:10,958 --> 05:29:21,440
will want to update along with the
direction from council as to what things

3025
05:29:18,000 --> 05:29:26,320
we want to update based on our our last
conversation with the province.

3026
05:29:24,400 --> 05:29:30,480
And you'll have an opportunity to
provide input and direction on those

3027
05:29:28,958 --> 05:29:36,240
items
uh while we're having those initial

3028
05:29:32,558 --> 05:29:41,200
conversations. And then ultimately when
there's a draft

3029
05:29:38,480 --> 05:29:46,400
um memorandum of understanding that
draft will will be circulated to council

3030
05:29:43,600 --> 05:29:53,040
for your feedback and comment
and once it's into a proposed um

3031
05:29:50,480 --> 05:29:57,604
component that's when council would look
at appro going through the the process

3032
05:29:55,040 --> 05:30:01,360
of approving it.
>> [snorts]

3033
05:29:57,680 --> 05:30:07,040
» So it's it's it's not a onestep today is
not to approve anou by any

3034
05:30:05,840 --> 05:30:10,958
shape or form.
>> Okay. No, and I abs I think that's very

3035
05:30:09,120 --> 05:30:14,558
well understood by council. Just wanted
to have that reassurance that council

3036
05:30:12,878 --> 05:30:19,360
will have an opportunity to have input
into that memorandum of understanding

3037
05:30:16,320 --> 05:30:24,798
before it's um
>> we may even sorry um it it may depending

3038
05:30:23,200 --> 05:30:27,440
on what comes out of those discussions
and those drafts. We may even have

3039
05:30:26,480 --> 05:30:31,440
another meeting with the province
similar to what we had before to discuss

3040
05:30:29,280 --> 05:30:36,000
the items within theou and how it can be
adjusted and come up with you know a

3041
05:30:34,080 --> 05:30:40,480
revised item before it would be coming
back officially to council for review.

3042
05:30:39,120 --> 05:30:43,200
» Okay. Thank you, Miss Gil. Councelor
Lewin, go ahead.

3043
05:30:41,360 --> 05:30:47,360
» Yeah, I guess where I'm coming from, I'm
just a little bit scared that if uh you

3044
05:30:45,920 --> 05:30:51,120
have meetings with the province and the
province thinks haha, they're doing what

3045
05:30:48,958 --> 05:30:54,878
we want, comes back to council and we
say, "No, that's not what we want." And

3046
05:30:53,280 --> 05:30:59,840
then we start friction right off the
top. That's my concern.

3047
05:30:57,760 --> 05:31:02,798
» I I mean, we did already have the those
discussions with them at that last

3048
05:31:01,360 --> 05:31:07,440
meeting, and I think they have a pretty
good idea of where this council is is

3049
05:31:05,200 --> 05:31:11,680
wanting to go um and what they're
comfortable with. So I don't know that

3050
05:31:09,200 --> 05:31:16,000
we'll be um we'll be too far off the
mark. I would hope anyway

3051
05:31:13,600 --> 05:31:19,760
» based on those those past discussions.
>> Okay. Thank you.

3052
05:31:18,400 --> 05:31:23,920
» Okay. So we have a motion on the floor
from Deputy Ree Mccay that council

3053
05:31:22,160 --> 05:31:27,040
direct administration to work with the
provincial government to update and

3054
05:31:25,360 --> 05:31:32,440
renew the current memorandum of
understanding. That is a motion on the

3055
05:31:29,440 --> 05:31:32,440
floor.

3056
05:31:32,558 --> 05:31:38,240
Is there any more discussion on that
motion? Seeing none, I'll call the

3057
05:31:35,520 --> 05:31:43,120
question. All those in favor?
That motion is supported by councel.

3058
05:31:41,360 --> 05:31:48,160
Further discussion or additional
motions. Councelor McCauley.

3059
05:31:46,080 --> 05:31:52,798
Make a motion that council or direct
staff to review and amend development

3060
05:31:50,400 --> 05:31:58,124
node structure
development node area structure plans.

3061
05:31:56,080 --> 05:31:59,680
» Excellent.
[clears throat]

3062
05:31:58,320 --> 05:32:07,200
» Thank you for the motion, councelor
McCauley. Um, Deputy Ree, go ahead.

3063
05:32:04,240 --> 05:32:15,760
I may have misunderstood, but were we
not was step one not to uh renew theou

3064
05:32:11,280 --> 05:32:19,680
before proceeding with the ASP
review or reconstruction.

3065
05:32:18,240 --> 05:32:22,240
» I believe that is like the beginning
part of the process. This is just

3066
05:32:21,040 --> 05:32:26,000
getting the directions so we don't have
to come back to you guys every step of

3067
05:32:23,920 --> 05:32:29,840
the way. Like we I mean the ASP review
is going to happen as well, right?

3068
05:32:27,840 --> 05:32:32,798
That's the plan is to do the M. So just
basically getting directions. So this

3069
05:32:31,200 --> 05:32:36,400
we'll start off with theou and then move
into the ASP once we have that newou

3070
05:32:34,958 --> 05:32:41,120
kind of nailed out.
>> I'm just asking procedurally

3071
05:32:38,558 --> 05:32:44,558
» if step one needs to be completed first
or if we can make all three motions.

3072
05:32:43,040 --> 05:32:47,520
» I I think all three motions are fine
today. It's just so we don't have to

3073
05:32:45,760 --> 05:32:50,400
return to council to like knowing that
we're planning to move through those

3074
05:32:48,958 --> 05:32:55,040
process or steps. Yeah.
>> Thank you.

3075
05:32:52,480 --> 05:32:59,360
» Excellent. So we have a motion on the
floor from council mccully that uh

3076
05:32:58,080 --> 05:33:03,520
council direct administration to work
with the provincial government to review

3077
05:33:00,718 --> 05:33:08,718
and amend the development node area
structure plans.

3078
05:33:05,840 --> 05:33:14,480
Seeing no discussion
go ahead council not really to amend but

3079
05:33:11,760 --> 05:33:19,760
to review and then to report back right
we don't want them to amend anything

3080
05:33:16,400 --> 05:33:27,120
without us talking about it.
>> Yeah. Um the review sorry the review and

3081
05:33:23,840 --> 05:33:29,760
amendment um would be like obviously
council had expressed that they would

3082
05:33:28,400 --> 05:33:33,280
like to see changes in it. So we
anticipate amendments. So obviously

3083
05:33:31,360 --> 05:33:38,480
there's going to have to be review and
suggested areas of of edit and change

3084
05:33:35,840 --> 05:33:41,600
and then we'll bring it back. But um yes
initially we'll go through but we there

3085
05:33:40,320 --> 05:33:46,400
have been areas that have been
identified based on previous discussions

3086
05:33:43,120 --> 05:33:50,320
of where changes will likely be made. Um
and obviously we will have to get um

3087
05:33:48,638 --> 05:33:54,878
further direction from council on where
those are but theou is a factor and then

3088
05:33:52,878 --> 05:33:59,920
obviously that third point identifying
the pressures and solutions um is going

3089
05:33:57,440 --> 05:34:04,080
to factor in to probably some of those
changes as well. So we may actually have

3090
05:34:02,160 --> 05:34:08,718
to like during theou process and or
after get some hopefully some of that

3091
05:34:06,080 --> 05:34:13,320
information from the province as well in
order to make some of those changes to

3092
05:34:10,160 --> 05:34:13,320
the ASP.

3093
05:34:14,798 --> 05:34:21,360
Councelor McCauley, if I may, you're
looking, if I may have heard that right,

3094
05:34:19,840 --> 05:34:25,120
potentially make amendments, but have
those amendments back come back for

3095
05:34:22,958 --> 05:34:27,280
council consideration.
>> Yes.

3096
05:34:25,920 --> 05:34:30,320
» Is that that's kind of what I'm hearing
and that's I think the balance of

3097
05:34:28,958 --> 05:34:36,000
council would probably agree as well,
but go ahead, director Mak.

3098
05:34:32,000 --> 05:34:40,240
» Uh through the Ree Council, the
area structure plan is a statutory

3099
05:34:38,000 --> 05:34:46,320
document. So any amendments would have
to be publicly advertised and brought

3100
05:34:43,280 --> 05:34:52,320
before this council through the regular
public process.

3101
05:34:48,558 --> 05:34:57,600
Um so reviewing it, amending it is just
giving us direction that uh you'd like

3102
05:34:55,360 --> 05:35:01,440
administration [clears throat] to
proceed with working with the province

3103
05:34:59,920 --> 05:35:06,160
to make sure that we can get those
amendments

3104
05:35:02,958 --> 05:35:11,440
understood so when it's brought back uh
with to council that we're incorporating

3105
05:35:09,360 --> 05:35:16,638
the what we heard report comments that
were received from the community.

3106
05:35:14,080 --> 05:35:20,718
» Okay. If maybe the word just a slight
amendment to the wording, but uh

3107
05:35:18,480 --> 05:35:23,440
potentially the motion could be better
suited if it read that council direct

3108
05:35:22,480 --> 05:35:28,638
administration to work with the
provincial government to review and

3109
05:35:26,080 --> 05:35:31,200
prepare amendments
to the development node area structure

3110
05:35:30,480 --> 05:35:34,558
plans.
>> Yeah. Even draft amendments.

3111
05:35:32,638 --> 05:35:36,080
» Yeah.
>> Would you accept that?

3112
05:35:35,600 --> 05:35:40,400
» Yes.
>> Amend or amendment to the motion. Can

3113
05:35:39,040 --> 05:35:44,958
councelor McCully has agreed that he
would accept those amendments with that

3114
05:35:42,718 --> 05:35:48,480
wording? Seeing no further discussion,
I'll call the question. All those in

3115
05:35:46,320 --> 05:35:52,718
favor,
that motion is supported by council.

3116
05:35:50,718 --> 05:35:56,638
There's one last third third item on
this. Further discussion motions.

3117
05:35:54,958 --> 05:36:00,160
Councelor Humphrey, go ahead.
>> I'd like to make a motion that council

3118
05:35:58,480 --> 05:36:04,638
direct administration to work with the
provincial government to identify

3119
05:36:02,320 --> 05:36:09,200
pressures and solutions relating to
infrastructure, operational supports,

3120
05:36:07,200 --> 05:36:13,360
emergency response, and visitor
management strategy.

3121
05:36:12,080 --> 05:36:19,360
» Excellent. Thank you very much councelor
Humphrey. Um this process has uh

3122
05:36:17,760 --> 05:36:22,480
allowed for an opportunity to have many
discussions and build a relationship

3123
05:36:20,878 --> 05:36:26,798
with the provincial government regarding
this and uh I know initially the motion

3124
05:36:25,040 --> 05:36:31,840
was to repeal the area structure plans
which this council chose not to do but

3125
05:36:28,958 --> 05:36:35,120
has able to gain in many ways a better
relationship with the provincial

3126
05:36:33,040 --> 05:36:41,280
government and more opportunity to
better serve the residents of not only

3127
05:36:36,638 --> 05:36:44,400
Clearwater County but the region and uh
it's been a lot of work on council and

3128
05:36:43,040 --> 05:36:48,718
I'd like to Thank administration for
doing all that work. So we have a motion

3129
05:36:46,320 --> 05:36:51,360
in four from councelor Hunt Humphrey
that council direct administration to

3130
05:36:50,080 --> 05:36:54,958
work with the provincial government to
identify pressures and solutions

3131
05:36:52,798 --> 05:37:02,400
relating to infrastructure
operational supports emergency response

3132
05:36:58,558 --> 05:37:06,798
and visitor management strategy.
Seeing no further discussion, councelor

3133
05:37:03,920 --> 05:37:14,000
Humphrey, do you have comments? Okay,
councelor McCauley,

3134
05:37:08,320 --> 05:37:17,920
» just on the uh the area. So I guess it's
we would be thinking that this is just

3135
05:37:15,440 --> 05:37:22,000
covering the ASP nodes or maybe the
areas that are covered under theou but

3136
05:37:20,240 --> 05:37:26,718
after that meeting is this is really
about either all of the county or the

3137
05:37:24,320 --> 05:37:31,520
entire west country as a whole not just
the ASP nodes and the and the area

3138
05:37:28,558 --> 05:37:35,760
discussed but with in theou. So, is that
something that we could change to either

3139
05:37:33,280 --> 05:37:41,520
have theou encompass all of the west
country or to add the entirety of the

3140
05:37:39,920 --> 05:37:47,040
west country to the end of that last
motion?

3141
05:37:43,440 --> 05:37:50,160
I think if if I was to um through some
of the discussions that we have with the

3142
05:37:48,240 --> 05:37:54,160
province, the visitor management
strategy was encompassing more of the

3143
05:37:52,080 --> 05:37:58,638
county and the region as a whole. uh the
memorandum of understanding was more

3144
05:37:55,760 --> 05:38:02,480
specific to those area structure plans,
but I think with additional information

3145
05:38:00,878 --> 05:38:06,638
from administration and discussion that
they have with the province, we can we

3146
05:38:04,320 --> 05:38:11,120
can have those further discussions and
uh once that information is brought back

3147
05:38:08,878 --> 05:38:16,480
to council but I do see Mr. Mazak or
director Mazak would like to speak. Go

3148
05:38:12,638 --> 05:38:23,120
ahead please. uh through the uh reeve to
um council.

3149
05:38:19,520 --> 05:38:27,760
The other option or the other additional
consideration where we say operational

3150
05:38:25,840 --> 05:38:33,520
supports
um we may want to consider capital

3151
05:38:30,798 --> 05:38:40,958
supports as well.
um given the commitments for certain

3152
05:38:37,280 --> 05:38:48,080
types of things that the province may
wish to pursue that do not become the

3153
05:38:44,558 --> 05:38:52,320
obligations of Clearwater County.
>> Excellent. So potentially we could have

3154
05:38:50,798 --> 05:38:58,718
an amendment to councelor Humphrey's
motion to include uh capital

3155
05:38:57,760 --> 05:39:04,840
» infrastruure
>> capital and operational supports

3156
05:39:01,520 --> 05:39:04,840
» yeah cab

3157
05:39:07,200 --> 05:39:12,160
» capital supports council arrey you'd
accept that amendment to your motion

3158
05:39:10,400 --> 05:39:15,160
» yes I accept that amendment
>> okay

3159
05:39:16,718 --> 05:39:21,520
miss gllum
>> sorry I just wanted to know one thing

3160
05:39:19,040 --> 05:39:27,040
just based on uh council's comments too.
Um you definitely could identify the um

3161
05:39:25,440 --> 05:39:31,520
last point related to West Country or
the county as a whole. I think the MLOU

3162
05:39:29,280 --> 05:39:36,160
it it's because it's like provincial
land and so our agreement of being able

3163
05:39:33,440 --> 05:39:40,718
to like manage those um manage those
lands and development within those lands

3164
05:39:38,000 --> 05:39:45,120
is kind of the the concept of theou
being that they're the kind of like the

3165
05:39:42,320 --> 05:39:49,040
land holder. So that's um I don't know
if it would make sense to have the MLOU

3166
05:39:47,440 --> 05:39:54,280
the whole area or if it would be a
separate thing, but I just wanted to to

3167
05:39:51,040 --> 05:39:54,280
note that

3168
05:39:55,280 --> 05:39:59,440
» I'm really looking forward to a lot of
the information that's going to be

3169
05:39:57,520 --> 05:40:02,160
coming back to council for consideration
through the discussions that we've had

3170
05:40:00,638 --> 05:40:05,040
with the province and now giving
administration formal direction from

3171
05:40:04,000 --> 05:40:08,240
council.
>> I think there'll be some great

3172
05:40:06,400 --> 05:40:12,958
information that's brought back.
Director Mesa, go ahead.

3173
05:40:10,480 --> 05:40:19,440
Yeah, my my recommendation to council
would not necessarily to um hamster

3174
05:40:16,638 --> 05:40:28,320
yourself to being west country for the
development nodes. It's both crown land

3175
05:40:23,840 --> 05:40:33,360
and non-crown land within the that
geographical location that we need to

3176
05:40:31,600 --> 05:40:39,958
mitigate a number of different issues
and concerns and this is our opportunity

3177
05:40:36,240 --> 05:40:39,958
to to do so.

3178
05:40:40,000 --> 05:40:45,360
No, I really think this is this is a
reflection of this council listening to

3179
05:40:43,600 --> 05:40:48,958
the residents of Clear Roa County and
and uh working very hard on their

3180
05:40:46,958 --> 05:40:57,080
behalf. So, with that said, I'll call
the question. All those in favor?

3181
05:40:52,638 --> 05:40:57,080
And that motion is supported by councel.

3182
05:40:58,718 --> 05:41:05,840
Moving to item 8.1, chief administrative
officer report. And I'm going to pass it

3183
05:41:03,360 --> 05:41:10,400
over to Mr. Simpson.
>> Thank you, Mr. Ree. Uh, short and sweet,

3184
05:41:08,320 --> 05:41:15,360
folks. Uh, just a heads up. Uh, we will
have a road closure in Leslieville on

3185
05:41:12,878 --> 05:41:20,878
September 12th from 8:00 a.m. to 5:00
p.m. due to the Leslieville block party.

3186
05:41:18,798 --> 05:41:23,760
It's a nice community event that is
going to have organizations, not for

3187
05:41:22,558 --> 05:41:27,680
profofits, and businesses from
Leslieville out and about on the

3188
05:41:26,400 --> 05:41:31,520
streets. There will be some live
entertainment, a car show, a craft sale,

3189
05:41:29,920 --> 05:41:34,080
local artisans, and of course, family
activities. So, if you're looking for

3190
05:41:32,638 --> 05:41:37,440
something to do on that particular day,
you should head on down and see for

3191
05:41:35,440 --> 05:41:42,160
yourself all that Leslieville has to
offer.

3192
05:41:38,958 --> 05:41:46,000
Um, as well, just uh two a note on two
uh educational opportunities for elected

3193
05:41:44,080 --> 05:41:51,440
officials. We have the AB MUN's
riskaware webinar series. The uh

3194
05:41:49,120 --> 05:41:54,558
webinars are taking place on three
different dates, three different topics.

3195
05:41:53,040 --> 05:41:59,040
October 5th, we have municipal
sidewalks, managing risk and liability.

3196
05:41:57,040 --> 05:42:03,520
October 21st, emergency management in
Alberta, AMA and what municipalities

3197
05:42:00,958 --> 05:42:07,120
need to know and again harassment of
elected officials and staff, risks,

3198
05:42:05,440 --> 05:42:11,440
liabilities and strategies to deal with
them happening on November 25th. Uh the

3199
05:42:10,240 --> 05:42:15,040
second one would be the elected
officials education program and some

3200
05:42:13,360 --> 05:42:20,000
webinar dates are being offered there
for a class or a course rather.

3201
05:42:17,200 --> 05:42:25,600
Council's role in CIO employment which
will uh I guess give you a a broad

3202
05:42:22,320 --> 05:42:29,280
overview of how you can act as my
employer.

3203
05:42:27,200 --> 05:42:34,558
So, uh, that will be happening on three
different dates from October 7th,

3204
05:42:30,878 --> 05:42:38,638
October 14th, and October 21st at all
occurrences. They are taking place from

3205
05:42:36,080 --> 05:42:41,760
9:00 a.m. to 11:30 a.m. So, do email
administration if you wish to partake in

3206
05:42:40,240 --> 05:42:44,798
any of those educational offerings and
we will get you registered promptly.

3207
05:42:43,200 --> 05:42:49,840
Thank you.
>> Excellent. Thank you, CEO Simpson. Does

3208
05:42:48,240 --> 05:42:53,920
council any council members have any
questions or comments for Mr. Simpson?

3209
05:42:52,480 --> 05:42:59,360
If not, I'd be looking for a motion to
adopt or accept uh CEO Simpson's report

3210
05:42:57,440 --> 05:43:02,320
as information. Councelor McCauley,
you'd like to make that motion? Okay.

3211
05:43:01,120 --> 05:43:07,840
Councilor McCauley makes a motion to
accept CEO report for information. I'll

3212
05:43:05,760 --> 05:43:11,360
call a question. All those in favor?
Motion is supported by councel going

3213
05:43:09,840 --> 05:43:16,320
into verbal council reports. And I'll
start with councelor Powell.

3214
05:43:13,840 --> 05:43:21,520
» Thank you, Reev. Um okay. Well, I hope
everyone had a great long weekend. I got

3215
05:43:18,160 --> 05:43:24,638
to spend mine with my kids. Also just um
watch out for the school buses everybody

3216
05:43:23,120 --> 05:43:31,600
and the kids. They are all back in
school. It was a busy few weeks. Um we

3217
05:43:29,840 --> 05:43:36,718
had a meeting with the town. We had a
meeting with the province to discuss um

3218
05:43:34,400 --> 05:43:40,958
the development nodes. We had a meeting
with Caroline Egg Society. Oh goodness.

3219
05:43:39,680 --> 05:43:48,480
We had a planning and development
workshop which was excellent. um and NIC

3220
05:43:45,520 --> 05:43:52,718
and I will keep saying this every single
verbal counselor report. I sure hope

3221
05:43:50,958 --> 05:43:59,760
people pick up their phones and call
their counselors. Um we are here to

3222
05:43:56,638 --> 05:44:03,600
answer questions and to listen and thank
you.

3223
05:44:01,120 --> 05:44:07,600
» Thank you, Councelor Pal. Are there any
questions for councelor Powell?

3224
05:44:06,000 --> 05:44:14,558
Seeing none. Councelor Lewin, the floor
is yours. Yeah, the same like uh

3225
05:44:11,600 --> 05:44:20,958
councelor Powell mentioned, we met with
um town over the new uh Rex complex

3226
05:44:18,878 --> 05:44:26,958
which or multiplex which we went over
today also and we did the development of

3227
05:44:24,080 --> 05:44:32,558
JSP. Um it was interesting that we got
an ecological reserve

3228
05:44:30,080 --> 05:44:37,680
uh letter from the province for the Kney
Plains that they're doing something out

3229
05:44:35,280 --> 05:44:43,200
there. We're not quite sure yet what.
And we had an egg service board meeting.

3230
05:44:40,400 --> 05:44:48,958
Uh did our strategic plan. We talked
about uh used oil uh getting used oil

3231
05:44:46,718 --> 05:44:53,680
taken out. So if there's any uh farmers
that need to get rid of their used oil,

3232
05:44:50,400 --> 05:44:58,718
their main uh their only drop off is at
their main station out by the airport

3233
05:44:55,280 --> 05:45:07,200
there um two days a week. And other than
that, a few calls from citizens of

3234
05:45:01,200 --> 05:45:11,440
concern over dust control, noise, and um
broadband. Yeah. One one one person was

3235
05:45:09,520 --> 05:45:14,558
very concerned about broadband. It came
within a half mile of their place and

3236
05:45:12,958 --> 05:45:19,040
then slopped and went a different
direction. So,

3237
05:45:17,520 --> 05:45:21,680
and that's all I have for report for
now. Thank you.

3238
05:45:20,080 --> 05:45:26,080
» Excellent. Thank you, Councelor Lewin.
Are there any com comments or questions

3239
05:45:23,360 --> 05:45:32,400
for councelor Lewin's report? Seeing
none, Deputy Reeve, the floor is yours.

3240
05:45:28,958 --> 05:45:38,558
» Thanks, Reeve. Uh, much the same. We,
uh, met with the province last week. We

3241
05:45:36,320 --> 05:45:42,798
had an excellent planning seminar. We
also met with the town regarding the,

3242
05:45:40,638 --> 05:45:48,240
uh, plans for the possible future
multiplex.

3243
05:45:45,200 --> 05:45:55,040
But uh something
extremely important uh that we need to

3244
05:45:52,558 --> 05:45:58,958
bring awareness back to is there was
another accident involving a school bus

3245
05:45:57,040 --> 05:46:06,320
in Clearwater County. I'm not sure if
everyone's aware, but on Highway 11 in

3246
05:46:02,958 --> 05:46:10,798
the exact place that I have been
harping on our enforcement and the RCMP

3247
05:46:09,120 --> 05:46:16,240
and fighting with the school division
about, there was a semi rear ended a

3248
05:46:13,680 --> 05:46:19,920
vehicle right behind a school bus. And
there was two vehicles that would have

3249
05:46:18,320 --> 05:46:24,558
had to have hit the school bus, but they
each had to take the ditch. and the

3250
05:46:23,120 --> 05:46:33,120
young person that was exiting the school
bus had to jump back on the bus again

3251
05:46:28,400 --> 05:46:35,840
to avoid being struck. So, I don't know
what more we need to do.

3252
05:46:35,834 --> 05:46:44,080
» [clears throat]
>> Um, there is some rather uh

3253
05:46:41,120 --> 05:46:51,440
I guess understandable community outrage
as apparently there was only a small

3254
05:46:47,520 --> 05:46:57,600
fine issue to the driver of the semi
and there really doesn't seem to be

3255
05:46:54,400 --> 05:47:02,320
anything else is going to come of this.
So I guess I'm putting it out there to

3256
05:47:00,480 --> 05:47:06,480
administration to other counselors for
suggestions. I know we've already told

3257
05:47:04,480 --> 05:47:12,080
our
our enforcement to focus on that

3258
05:47:08,798 --> 05:47:18,000
specific area. Um I guess that day they
weren't able to be out there, but I

3259
05:47:16,080 --> 05:47:23,480
don't think the next time we're going to
get so lucky.

3260
05:47:20,480 --> 05:47:23,480
Thanks

3261
05:47:24,638 --> 05:47:31,510
» on
Deputy Ree on on that topic and school

3262
05:47:28,958 --> 05:47:35,600
bus safety is highly important
[clears throat] to many of the parents

3263
05:47:32,400 --> 05:47:38,558
in the community. Um,
we could take this time to make an a

3264
05:47:37,040 --> 05:47:43,280
motion to direct administration to write
a letter of concern from Clearwater

3265
05:47:40,878 --> 05:47:49,920
County to the Minister of Transportation
and Economic Corridors. Um, requesting

3266
05:47:47,040 --> 05:47:55,520
mitigation measures and letting them
know that this is an ongoing concern in

3267
05:47:52,480 --> 05:47:59,360
that location.
Would that be appropriate?

3268
05:47:57,360 --> 05:48:07,360
» Yes, I would gladly make that motion.
Could we also add to that motion a

3269
05:48:02,400 --> 05:48:14,200
letter to the RCMP or to the Alberta
Justice requesting

3270
05:48:10,080 --> 05:48:14,200
stiffer penalties and

3271
05:48:14,558 --> 05:48:21,360
I I don't know how how else to word
that, but yeah, I guess just requesting

3272
05:48:19,600 --> 05:48:25,280
stronger penalties for incidents like
this. [sighs]

3273
05:48:23,760 --> 05:48:28,558
So essentially requesting that two
letters be drafted.

3274
05:48:27,200 --> 05:48:32,160
What we could do is we could potentially
have one letter to the Minister of

3275
05:48:30,160 --> 05:48:35,600
Transport Transportation Economic
Corridors to start with and then we

3276
05:48:33,600 --> 05:48:40,718
could potentially have a fall resolution
or a spring resolution at RMA to to

3277
05:48:38,558 --> 05:48:44,160
possibly lobby and have those fines or
penalties increased. But uh and and some

3278
05:48:42,798 --> 05:48:47,440
of that could be pending the information
that we get back from the province. But

3279
05:48:46,240 --> 05:48:51,760
for now, we could have a letter
requesting

3280
05:48:50,240 --> 05:48:56,798
um
mitigation measures andor just notifying

3281
05:48:54,000 --> 05:49:02,718
them that that area where the collisions
are taking place needs to be addressed.

3282
05:48:59,440 --> 05:49:08,920
» That's a great step forward. Yes,
>> absolutely. Mrs. Thompson, were you able

3283
05:49:04,718 --> 05:49:08,920
to capture the wording in that motion?

3284
05:49:09,760 --> 05:49:16,160
Yeah, I believe you landed on directing
administration to draft a letter of

3285
05:49:13,760 --> 05:49:20,558
concern to Alberta Transportation and
economic corridors regarding

3286
05:49:18,240 --> 05:49:24,878
investigating the safety measures
implemented in that location.

3287
05:49:23,520 --> 05:49:27,680
» Does that work, Deputy Reef?
>> It does. Thank you.

3288
05:49:25,680 --> 05:49:32,558
» Excellent. Councelor Lewin, go ahead.
>> Yes. Um, this area of concern, I think

3289
05:49:30,638 --> 05:49:36,558
all areas of concern are out there when
it comes to school buses, children.

3290
05:49:34,958 --> 05:49:42,798
Whereabouts was this one?
>> Highway 11. Highway 11.

3291
05:49:40,080 --> 05:49:46,798
Well, sorry. Just west of Wall Street.
>> Wall Street. Dis west. Okay. Thank you.

3292
05:49:45,788 --> 05:49:51,958
[snorts]
Okay. I have a motion on the floor. Um

3293
05:49:52,718 --> 05:49:56,400
I can't have I can't remember the
wording. Miss Thompson. Would you be

3294
05:49:55,280 --> 05:50:01,280
able to repeat that? And we'll
officially place that on the floor. My

3295
05:49:59,120 --> 05:50:05,280
apologies.
uh directing administration to draft a

3296
05:50:03,600 --> 05:50:10,000
letter of concern to the Minister of
Transportation Economic Corridors uh

3297
05:50:07,920 --> 05:50:16,240
requesting an invest in investigation
for safety measures regarding school bus

3298
05:50:12,958 --> 05:50:18,400
safety in that location or along Highway
11.

3299
05:50:16,958 --> 05:50:22,718
» Yeah.
>> Okay. I'll declare that motion

3300
05:50:20,000 --> 05:50:25,040
officially on the floor for a vote. If
there's no more discussion and I'm

3301
05:50:23,840 --> 05:50:29,520
seeing none, I'll call the question. All
those in favor?

3302
05:50:27,440 --> 05:50:34,080
That motion is supported by council. Are
there any questions for any other items

3303
05:50:31,280 --> 05:50:37,520
on Deputy Reef's [snorts] report? Seeing
none, councelor McCauley, go ahead,

3304
05:50:36,320 --> 05:50:42,558
please.
>> I have most of the same stuff everyone

3305
05:50:39,280 --> 05:50:46,558
else has. Um, just a couple comments.
The, uh, meeting with the province on

3306
05:50:44,718 --> 05:50:51,120
the development nodes was really,
really, um, well, I guess everyone was

3307
05:50:49,600 --> 05:50:56,958
there. They they really were listening
to us, so it felt like we made progress

3308
05:50:53,280 --> 05:51:00,638
in that meeting. Uh I was at Nord Days
all weekend and it was a lot of fun.

3309
05:50:59,200 --> 05:51:05,280
Really good to see all the energy in the
area. Got to watch a helicopter land

3310
05:51:02,480 --> 05:51:10,638
like 40 ft in front of me. So it was uh
it was a lot of fun to see everything

3311
05:51:07,120 --> 05:51:14,320
everyone out there. Um that's really all
I have that's different from everyone

3312
05:51:12,080 --> 05:51:18,638
else. So thanks.
>> Excellent. Any comments or questions for

3313
05:51:16,080 --> 05:51:25,840
councelor McCully? Seeing none.
Councelor Serat, go ahead, please.

3314
05:51:20,638 --> 05:51:31,600
» Thank you. Uh on the 27th of I attended
a meeting out at Caroline with the

3315
05:51:28,638 --> 05:51:37,520
Carolina Society.
It was quite a meeting. I won't go into

3316
05:51:34,080 --> 05:51:43,680
more than that. On the 28th, we were in
here at a planning and council meeting.

3317
05:51:41,440 --> 05:51:48,000
I found that meeting had great
information and insight to what planning

3318
05:51:46,320 --> 05:51:51,840
does and what we can do to help
planning.

3319
05:51:49,920 --> 05:52:01,200
That was kind of a close session. So I
won't go into the information on that.

3320
05:51:55,360 --> 05:52:06,638
Um then I was drove to Fort McMurray and
attended the care up there for three

3321
05:52:04,878 --> 05:52:12,638
days.
What a fantastic um

3322
05:52:10,240 --> 05:52:20,000
bunch of information we got from the
people up there. the manager of the um

3323
05:52:16,240 --> 05:52:27,120
waste facility up there does some pretty
fantastic stuff. Anybody in that facil

3324
05:52:23,600 --> 05:52:31,760
in that town of I think there's 60,000
that live in the city,

3325
05:52:29,840 --> 05:52:40,558
they have a compost pile there. They can
go and get this rich black soil, no

3326
05:52:34,320 --> 05:52:49,760
cost. Just drive up there and get it. Um
and and then they they got into the new

3327
05:52:43,840 --> 05:52:57,040
um AER review of
the person that makes the packaging that

3328
05:52:53,440 --> 05:53:04,160
you buy your stuff in has to look after
disposal of that packaging. So the AER

3329
05:53:00,798 --> 05:53:11,840
now has got 500 [snorts]
depots in Alberta

3330
05:53:07,920 --> 05:53:16,700
that they are getting contractors
and they have the contractors have to

3331
05:53:14,080 --> 05:53:20,080
supply the bins
[clears throat]

3332
05:53:17,680 --> 05:53:26,958
and in certain areas I'm in Alberta they
don't have bins they use bags

3333
05:53:23,440 --> 05:53:32,558
the contractors have to use that
the AER have deced decided that if you

3334
05:53:30,480 --> 05:53:38,878
have bins,
the county gets to keep their bins and

3335
05:53:35,760 --> 05:53:44,320
the contractor has to supply new ones,
which is a total waste of money, but

3336
05:53:41,360 --> 05:53:50,400
that's how I how it is.
Um, and all of this stuff has to be

3337
05:53:47,440 --> 05:53:56,240
collected in Alberta, but there's only
two main places where these 500 depots

3338
05:53:53,680 --> 05:54:02,000
have to go to, and that's Calgary and
Edmonton.

3339
05:53:58,160 --> 05:54:05,760
And this all has to be signed by the 1st
of October.

3340
05:54:03,920 --> 05:54:10,638
And they're just starting to do it right
now. They have a lot of work ahead of

3341
05:54:08,558 --> 05:54:13,638
them.
Um,

3342
05:54:14,400 --> 05:54:22,798
and the other part of of the one that we
were at in one meeting that was in, the

3343
05:54:20,798 --> 05:54:28,400
one thing that really stuck out to me is
that onethird of the provincial revenues

3344
05:54:26,320 --> 05:54:35,120
for Alberta
comes from the Fort McMurray area.

3345
05:54:32,558 --> 05:54:44,160
There's one plant there that contributes
11 and a half tr billion dollars a year

3346
05:54:39,120 --> 05:54:50,958
to our coffers. Just one plant up there.
It's amazing the money that is spent up

3347
05:54:47,200 --> 05:54:55,680
in that area.
That's my report.

3348
05:54:53,680 --> 05:54:59,600
Any questions for councelor Serach's
verbal counselor report?

3349
05:54:58,160 --> 05:55:03,600
Seeing none, councelor Humphrey, go
ahead.

3350
05:55:00,958 --> 05:55:08,480
» Yes. Thank you. Um [clears throat] once
gone around the around the room and

3351
05:55:07,120 --> 05:55:17,040
pretty much everything that everybody
else went to and was involved in, I was

3352
05:55:12,718 --> 05:55:22,958
there. Uh with the exception of the uh I
was at a mutual [clears throat] aid and

3353
05:55:19,760 --> 05:55:29,360
industry crime reduction meeting uh in
conjunction then with the West Central

3354
05:55:24,958 --> 05:55:34,718
stakeholders meeting. Uh um it was uh
quite interesting. The uh

3355
05:55:32,286 --> 05:55:40,320
[clears throat] Rocky RCMP and Rimi RCMP
were both represented there. Um, Rocky

3356
05:55:37,920 --> 05:55:47,040
RCMP said their industrial uh related
crimes were were only there was only

3357
05:55:43,600 --> 05:55:54,000
three reported in the in the rock areas
as opposed to uh they had a dozen uh

3358
05:55:51,120 --> 05:55:59,680
industrial crimes. And it's usually the
uh

3359
05:55:55,760 --> 05:56:03,520
theft of copper copper wires and
batteries and that kind of thing that

3360
05:56:01,040 --> 05:56:08,798
there is kind of the big ticket items
that are being gone after. They said uh

3361
05:56:06,160 --> 05:56:13,360
in the Rimi area there was uh a little
uptick, but that's kind of natural for

3362
05:56:11,040 --> 05:56:16,958
the summertime. They said they'll lots
of times get a little uptick in the

3363
05:56:15,280 --> 05:56:22,638
crime and stuff that happens there. They
did get uh two arrests which are be

3364
05:56:20,718 --> 05:56:29,360
followed up with two court appearances.
So, uh there's a opportunity and a good

3365
05:56:25,920 --> 05:56:35,820
chance that maybe some of the bad guys
won't be out on the on the roads for a

3366
05:56:31,680 --> 05:56:38,638
while. So, that's always a positive. Um,
[clears throat]

3367
05:56:36,480 --> 05:56:44,160
at the West Central stakeholders
meeting, I guess one of the things there

3368
05:56:40,480 --> 05:56:52,240
was a uh
there was a presentation uh not a county

3369
05:56:49,920 --> 05:56:59,280
opinion. It was just an information.
There was some information presented on

3370
05:56:56,798 --> 05:57:04,638
data centers. Again, it wasn't anything
to do with the county's opinions on

3371
05:57:02,000 --> 05:57:11,040
them. It was just an information on
water usage and and this kind of things

3372
05:57:07,120 --> 05:57:17,360
and and uh information about the one
that was going to go in down at Olds and

3373
05:57:12,798 --> 05:57:24,240
how it had been uh cancelled.
Just some general information.

3374
05:57:20,080 --> 05:57:28,958
And that's uh pretty much it for
what I have uh to say other than start

3375
05:57:27,360 --> 05:57:36,160
repeating everything that everybody else
said. So I'll sign off.

3376
05:57:33,200 --> 05:57:42,878
Uh thank you councelor Humphrey and uh
regarding the data centers information

3377
05:57:38,878 --> 05:57:46,878
and facts is key on so many subjects of
discussion. So thank you for that. Are

3378
05:57:45,120 --> 05:57:53,120
there any questions for councelor
Humphrey?

3379
05:57:49,120 --> 05:57:56,718
Seeing none. Um my is consistent of many
of the same activities that the balance

3380
05:57:54,480 --> 05:58:01,680
of council has attended. uh the meeting
with the provincial uh representatives.

3381
05:58:00,160 --> 05:58:06,638
I think there's been a a great
relationship gained there over the last

3382
05:58:03,600 --> 05:58:11,200
roughly 10 to 11 months uh to better
serve Clearwater County. Um, regarding

3383
05:58:09,280 --> 05:58:14,400
the recycling conference, uh, the
extended producer responsibility

3384
05:58:12,718 --> 05:58:18,400
program,
many Albertans have been paying the fees

3385
05:58:16,400 --> 05:58:23,440
associated with the product themselves,
but yet municipalities have been having

3386
05:58:20,160 --> 05:58:30,638
to subsidize and/or pay to assist in the
recycling programs where this um there

3387
05:58:26,798 --> 05:58:34,878
was no provincial legislation in place.
This does come into effect October 1st.

3388
05:58:33,040 --> 05:58:38,320
um municipalities will not have to
subsidize or pay for the recycling of

3389
05:58:37,040 --> 05:58:44,400
the materials or getting them to the
recycling depots that uh is now on the

3390
05:58:42,480 --> 05:58:48,638
the producer themselves. So, it's
actually it'll be a benefit to the

3391
05:58:45,840 --> 05:58:53,120
residents. We've we've been paying this
these fees for maybe a decade or more.

3392
05:58:51,360 --> 05:58:57,920
We're just going to be able to get the
benefit from and not have to pay

3393
05:58:55,600 --> 05:59:01,760
additional m municipal taxes for that
service.

3394
05:58:59,600 --> 05:59:05,440
Um,
I've just had uh many great phone calls

3395
05:59:03,680 --> 05:59:10,360
and some great communication with
residents over the last little while.

3396
05:59:07,120 --> 05:59:10,360
But other than that,

3397
05:59:10,480 --> 05:59:17,840
many of many of my meetings have been in
line with the balance of council. Are

3398
05:59:16,240 --> 05:59:22,558
there any questions for me from council
members on my report?

3399
05:59:21,120 --> 05:59:26,000
Seeing none, I'd be looking for a motion
to accept council verbal reports for

3400
05:59:24,400 --> 05:59:29,840
information.
Deputy Reeve McCay makes a motion to

3401
05:59:27,760 --> 05:59:33,120
accept the council verbal council
reports for information. Seeing no

3402
05:59:32,080 --> 05:59:38,160
discussion, I'll call the question. All
those in favor? Motion is supported by

3403
05:59:35,760 --> 05:59:40,798
council. We do have a close session item
on today's council meeting. So, I'd be

3404
05:59:39,600 --> 05:59:43,798
looking for a motion to go into close
session.

3405
05:59:45,200 --> 05:59:52,558
» I do I've been no aware of notices of
motion.

3406
05:59:50,798 --> 05:59:55,280
» There's no notice motion from anybody
coming forward and I'm not aware of any.

3407
05:59:54,160 --> 05:59:59,760
But uh
>> I just haven't know if it had to be

3408
05:59:57,680 --> 06:00:01,840
before or after.
>> Um

3409
06:00:00,638 --> 06:00:05,680
» it can be brought forward at another
meeting then if that's the case.

3410
06:00:03,440 --> 06:00:08,480
» Okay. At this point in time then I can
declare that there's been no notice

3411
06:00:07,120 --> 06:00:14,200
motion being brought forward at this
point in time.

3412
06:00:09,600 --> 06:00:14,200
» Can I make a motion?

3413
06:00:15,120 --> 06:00:21,280
Um
I just I haven't been made aware of

3414
06:00:18,958 --> 06:00:25,280
anything just regarding the agenda, but
um if you'd like to propose a motion, we

3415
06:00:23,360 --> 06:00:28,480
can we'll work through this and uh we'll
direct administration accordingly.

3416
06:00:27,120 --> 06:00:37,600
» It's one that's very simple
>> and it's uh it's um resident to

3417
06:00:33,840 --> 06:00:45,600
resident request. Um, I would like to mo
make the motion that administration

3418
06:00:40,958 --> 06:00:53,320
bring back a proposal for revised stop
when lights flashing stop for school bus

3419
06:00:48,240 --> 06:00:53,320
signs throughout Clearwater County.

3420
06:00:53,440 --> 06:01:01,120
And that information should include
costs and uh appropriate locations, I

3421
06:00:58,798 --> 06:01:06,958
suppose.
Do those signs and this I think that's a

3422
06:01:04,400 --> 06:01:11,040
I would have to support this motion. Um
I do have a question for administration.

3423
06:01:09,360 --> 06:01:17,280
Those signs are they provinially
regulated in any manner or

3424
06:01:15,040 --> 06:01:20,558
» That's a good question.
>> Uh it's unclear to me at this time, Mr.

3425
06:01:19,040 --> 06:01:23,760
Ree. I would suggest you just give us a
little bit of time to make the necessary

3426
06:01:21,840 --> 06:01:27,200
inquiries. That would be uh also cross
referencing the Alberta traffic safety

3427
06:01:25,360 --> 06:01:30,718
act for areas where that may take place
on the provincial roadway and then

3428
06:01:29,120 --> 06:01:33,200
probably some consultation with the
transportation division of the school

3429
06:01:31,920 --> 06:01:36,638
division to see where the bus routes are
and those indicated stops so that we

3430
06:01:34,798 --> 06:01:41,440
might have the ability to cross
reference that with our I guess

3431
06:01:39,040 --> 06:01:45,040
proposal. I'm assuming uh Mr. Deputy
Rearity purposes that this is something

3432
06:01:43,680 --> 06:01:50,400
you would like to incorporate into a
roads bylaw or just that its own

3433
06:01:47,440 --> 06:01:55,040
separate piece of enforcement?
I know it it was more just uh for the

3434
06:01:53,520 --> 06:01:58,558
awareness, you know, like the large
signs that they just say stop when

3435
06:01:57,600 --> 06:02:00,638
lights flashing.
>> Okay. You see them along highways

3436
06:02:00,080 --> 06:02:03,280
occasionally.
>> So placement of additional signage then.

3437
06:02:02,798 --> 06:02:08,480
» Correct.
>> Okay. Thank you.

3438
06:02:05,440 --> 06:02:13,680
» The cost of and location that would be
appropriate.

3439
06:02:11,200 --> 06:02:17,280
» So just uh going to defer to
administration. Could this be brought

3440
06:02:15,680 --> 06:02:21,360
back with information and there could
potentially be additional information

3441
06:02:18,878 --> 06:02:24,558
brought back to a future council meeting
regarding the costs, the locations and

3442
06:02:23,280 --> 06:02:28,558
maybe even there will be some additional
information that may come out of this

3443
06:02:25,840 --> 06:02:32,320
but regarding legislation.
So so information and then if when we

3444
06:02:30,320 --> 06:02:37,040
get that information we can make a
further direction to give with with an

3445
06:02:35,120 --> 06:02:41,840
action with a we'll get the proper
information and then we can move forward

3446
06:02:38,320 --> 06:02:46,160
with an action. Excellent.
>> Miss Thompson, are you able to capture

3447
06:02:43,360 --> 06:02:46,160
that motion?

3448
06:02:46,480 --> 06:02:53,680
Yes. That administration bring back a
proposal for revised and additional

3449
06:02:52,080 --> 06:02:59,558
signage for stop when red lights
flashing signage for Clearwater County

3450
06:02:56,558 --> 06:02:59,558
roadways.

3451
06:03:03,760 --> 06:03:08,558
» Seeing no discussion, I'll place that
motion officially on the floor. Seeing

3452
06:03:07,440 --> 06:03:13,600
no further discussion, I'll call the
question. All those in favor

3453
06:03:10,878 --> 06:03:18,320
and that motion is supported. Now, are
there any other motions or notices of

3454
06:03:16,638 --> 06:03:21,520
motions? I do not believe there are any
at this time. So, we'd be going into

3455
06:03:19,520 --> 06:03:24,080
close session at this time. Council
Humphrey, you're indicating you'd like

3456
06:03:22,638 --> 06:03:28,638
to make the motion for to enter into
close session.

3457
06:03:26,320 --> 06:03:31,680
» Yes, I'd like to make a motion that we
proceed into close session. Okay. Have a

3458
06:03:30,638 --> 06:03:34,718
motion on the floor from Council
Humphrey that we move into close

3459
06:03:32,878 --> 06:03:39,878
session. Call question. All those in
favor? Motion supported by councel.

3460
07:21:33,840 --> 07:21:41,760
Welcome back from our closed session for
our September 8th, 2026

3461
07:21:40,000 --> 07:21:47,280
regular council meeting. There are no
motions coming out of closed. Um that

3462
07:21:44,478 --> 07:21:53,200
does conclude our council meeting for
today. So our last Motion would be item

3463
07:21:50,478 --> 07:21:57,280
number 11, which is adjournment.
Councelor Humphrey makes the motion for

3464
07:21:54,798 --> 07:22:00,718
adjournment. Um, I'll call the question.
All those in favor?

3465
07:21:59,360 --> 07:22:05,558
Motion is supported by council. Thank
you very much for watching and have a

3466
07:22:02,000 --> 07:22:05,558
good evening everybody.