silent mode. As a reminder, the board sorry, as a reminder to board members,
please avoid side conversations and cross talk. Again, welcome to the
meeting. Okay. So, um the first order of business
is the adoption of last month's minutes. Um
there weren't I mean I don't think there were any major changes that need to be
made. So, they are as they appear. Um is someone willing to make a motion to
approve the minutes from last month's meeting?
» Approve. >> Okay. A second.
» Second. >> All those in favor, please raise your
hand. >> Okay. Minutes have been approved
unanimously. That moves us on to the action items for tonight. So our first
of three tonight, the first one is 2025 AR06. Applicant Spencer Hyatt from
Signet Tiger Realy has requested approval of new signage at 412 College
Avenue. So we will first hear from Jacob.
» Sure. So although this property is part of a PD um and the PD ordinance does
state that they are going to comply with the um CM zoning district standards and
the AR District 2 standards. Um the sign is presented does comply with those
standards. The let's see what's in front of you now is just for the o the um
residential component of it, not for the individual businesses that'll come in at
a later date. It's just for the apartment complex itself. It's channel
lit letters with an acrylic face with LED lights. Um as far as recommendations
from the staff is just that um a dimmer be placed on it so that we can adjust it
if it is too bright. Um, with that I just turn it over to the applicant for
their presentation. >> Okay.
» Good evening everybody. Um, I believe you all have the the package that was
submitted. Um, my name is Spencer Hyatt on behalf of site signic tiger realy. I
know this signage as Jacob said is part of kind of a followup from the PD
ordinance approval uh part of the overall project. Um we were coming in
just for the residential portion of the signage. Um one of the items we kind of
wanted to bring to attention um really just from the residential portion we
have two illuminated signs uh from on the parapit. Uh both what we wanted to
approve kind of achieve was kind of an offset look where we have on the
northern portion of the uh west parapit. Uh we have a uh lighting sign that
measures 15t 7 in by 3t tall uh running the length there. Um we also have the
other identical sign uh on the western portion of the south facade um showing
from that uh piece but identical in nature again from a a channel lit kind
of 180°ree beam lit angle which you guys kind of know from a from the technical
standpoint. We had uh Jacob and the city team review provide any commentary to
see where it met. So um with that um open up to any questions. I am very
sorry. I should have caught this earlier, but the one facing the
neighboring property is not allowed. We only allow made identification one
madeification side facing the street itself. We do not have a provision that
would allow the one on the side of the building.
» Well, aside from that. Okay. >> Yeah.
» Yeah. We have both on that facade. So, >> you can only have it facing the street.
» Yep. >> So, we'll be looking at that and then
the sign over the entryway. Is that correct?
» Yes. The sign of the entryway um which you look is kind of the letter the
lettering measuring one inch uh or 1 foot 2 in each on the letters. Um what
you're looking at I think from color kind of a 6500 K pure white color
that we're trying to achieve with kind of a square kind of trying to match what
we've seen among some of the other um the other signage within kind of the the
College Avenue corridor.
Thank you. And then um I just wanted to see if there was any public input on
this project. >> Yes, sir.
» But feel free ask questions while he's up at the podium.
» So what is this uh this P1 or
the color? Is it a blue color? >> No, it's a pure white. Now, the frame,
» the frame, yes, it is. It is a blue, but the the illumination is is a white, so
it matches kind of our our branding blue that we've got.
» Uh, but the that is not illuminated. Only the white is illuminated.
» Quick question on the enter exit down here. Are those lit as well?
» No. >> I guess blue letters.
» Just more for uh Yeah, just more for traffic pattern.
» Okay. I have a fundamental question.
» Why do we allow lighted signs on the top of tall buildings in this town? I mean,
it begins to look like uh Las Vegas around here with all these housing. You
know, I just have a blanket opposition to lighted
signs on the top of tall buildings in this town. It's just it to me it's just
trashy. And I don't know why anyone needs a sign on the on the top of the
building. I could understand a sign at the entrance
um to let people know where to go, but I mean really
it's just I'm I'm opposed to but it's a blanket thing. I know it's within the
zoning ordinance right now, but I do think it's something that we should
address as a as a as a city.
Every every tall residential building now has one on it. And it's like a
competition of of lighted signs.
I don't know what purpose they serve other than as an advertisement. It's
like a billboard. >> I think that's purpose advertisement.
» Yeah. But so does every hotel, but that's easier to find the hotels, I
guess. >> So
» highway hotels, one thing, but urban hotels.
» Yeah. What is the color that this is against?
Um I think in the future it'd be good color rendering
the context of the colors that these signs
» would be a gray facade as we were showing here. But that's a that's a good
point just to kind of show exactly what the the color is behind it that's kind
of backing up to this because these are kind of mounted against the facade
itself. Uh specifically on the parapit,
» do you know off hand which Yeah, it's the exact same. It's the dark
gray that's um that's showing on that that hard corner part of the uh I think
the pal the mockup we just uh we just went through.
So also looking at the smaller sign, I mean you
sign is is simplistic in nature and requires line
to be understood during the daylight and your the
supports going between the letters on your stack sign
» um definitely doesn't help with the understanding.
So, I would I would recommend that those match the color of whatever the
background structure is or something. >> I mean, is the board just
» I don't know what the rest of the the board thinks, but I feel like during the
daytime >> look like
» you start seeing a lot of extra blue lines.
» I might be old, but I'm I was still trying to figure out what it said. I
think it'd be I think it'd be a more clear expression if it were a not the
same color as the letters. >> So, or if they released thinner so they
want the same line weight, we'll say, of the the outline of each letter, it was
say half the thickness.
No talk to the sign design company and just give them that feedback and they
may
» I don't understand why it's not on a solid field
just have a square field around you know behind the signs uh the letters
» it's sitting on the awning correct or is it against
» on the awning? Yeah, there's kind of a it's a bracket kind of pedestal
bracketing um that's kind of coming up from the top of the
» Yeah, similar to what was that the FS boutique that went
» Yeah. Yeah. there. >> Oh, there's mounted up on the awning.
» That could be a whole plate behind there. It doesn't have to be bars.
» Going back to the one on the college or the large one with parapit. Are the four
letters individual letters mounted to the Okay. Okay. So, there is no backing
or anything. >> No backing.
» Okay.
» But those letters are 5 in deep. It looks like the side profile is 5 in. Is
that >> Yeah, that's correct. The side profile
of each. >> Yeah, it's a huge sign.
» Well, it it's a huge sign, but at 40t in the air, it's going to look pretty
small. >> I'm sorry. Not
» did say it's
» and it's going to be a sorry >> we're limited to 3ft tall letters at
that height >> and only buildings that are 40t tall are
allowed to have >> three foot is a massive size.
» Yeah. >> Do you understand how big those letters
are? >> Yeah. If but again like you said it had
to be 40t tall to have that big. >> It's doesn't need to be 3t.
Okay, >> we can look into changing that.
» So, I'm a little confused. I'm looking at the side view on the upper side.
» And is it 5 in of white? So, it looks like there's 3 in of blue.
And then it's not just the face that glows, it's actually the whole side
profile that glows as well. >> I'm sorry, which uh which sheet you got?
I just want to make sure I'm following along with you. 22.
» Yeah. So up here, >> so you have the the blue right there and
then five inches of white acrylic here.
» Mhm. >> Is that is that is that all glowing as
well? >> It's just if you will look at the actual
letters on page bear with me. We should have kind of an actual
illumination key. I think that's shown just the white is
going to be eliminated and not the not the blue,
» right? >> So that's kind of the key.
» Right. But is the 5 in exposure on the sides of the white letters actually
glowing? >> They will. So it's 180°ree kind of show.
Um so but it'll kind of dim as it kind of turns. So if you're looking from the
side, you will be able to see that is it is illuminated. So it's not just front
facing. Is that what you're asking? >> So So the blue doesn't border on the
sides, it just moves from the back. It's just a background like that.
» So, it's just the white that's illuminated. The blue is not. But you'll
see the white from the side. >> Get that.
» Yeah. >> I'm
seems a little much. >> Yeah.
» I can see the blue turning. >> Yeah. Can we have the blue border it on
the sides? >> Block that sidelight.
» Probably accent the blue a little bit better.
Like because if you start thinking about I mean your letters
are probably going to be about five inches or so wide and then you add 5 in
there. Nothing visually is going to >> as as you're viewing from the side,
nothing is going to differentiate between the side and the face,
» right? >> You know, you may have a little bit
thicker, but I'm guessing it's sheet and sheet of of white. And so the only thing
that's going to stand out is probably the adhesive line
» if you even see that. So that's a 10-in thick visual
like that becomes I think it it will blur and and not
actually make it legible. So, it's saying it's better to have the
blue have the blue kind of >> block off the sides so everything is
» Yep. >> to one level instead of having the blue
behind and the white in front. >> I mean, cuz that honestly that that
white letter doesn't need to come out that far at all. It it could come out
maybe an inch and a half. All it has to do is clear the LEDs.
So, I I think that's completely excessive as far as how far that sticks
out. >> And especially the glowing at night.
During the day, not a big deal, but at night, that's going to be
I don't think that's going to work.
And then the photos of the blue bar that it sits on is going to be painted the
color of the >> that's all that all sits within the blue
cabinet. >> Correct.
» Nathan, make sure I'm understand your comments. So, it's is it because of the
three the 3 in plus the 5 in? Uh >> I don't mind the 3-in blue because that
3 in is basically your blue cabinet. What what I'm opposed to and I'm I'm not
speaking for the whole board is I just want to make sure
» is the five inch lit profile of the letters
» because you're not just lighting the front. So yes, it's very nice that you
showed what it's going to look like at night lit. What you're not showing is
the extra five inches of that leather that's being lit on the side
» that's competing with the front, >> right?
So,
if you're not looking straight on that sign, which no one's 40t tall looking
straight on that sign, it's going to be looking like you've had a few too many
beers because it's going to be this weird angled blur. And I don't one I
think it's going to be annoying. Two, I don't think it's going to be successful.
Would you think the fact we do have we don't have a cut off the way we're set
up on the side and it's kind of goes a full 180 degrees from where it's uh
projecting out. Condensing that would that make it a little like a little bit
more of a cute and kind of how it's projecting because I think we just kept
it completely open and eliminated on all sides. Would that kind of bringing that
off to where it's protruding maybe just more directly
help a little bit? I don't know if I understood what you
just said. >> So, not coming out as far five inches.
Is that what you're saying? >> Correct. And so, therefore, you're not
having as much of the >> side profile
» the side profile bleed or, you know, from how that's projecting.
» I mean, I think it could be an inch and a half. I think all they have to do is
clear the LEDs. >> Yeah.
» And I would be okay if it was lit at an inch and a half. I think if they needed
more space, then it needed to be a different color. It needed to be painted
blue or >> or extend the border all the way out to
» done it blue or do something. >> I think if you can keep it shallow, the
light off the sides is more effective. >> Yeah. Tolerable loss.
» Yeah, I believe our minimum tolerance is at least an inch and a half, but we'll
have to add a little bit for the wee pole at the bottom to give some
breathing room because I think the LED backing is what about
I think that was what close to an inch and then another half an inch on
sidewalls. So, we'd have to compress it down. We can look to compress it down a
little bit, but we'll just see what the the minimum tolerances would be to make
sure it's still functioning properly. [Music]
And I may have missed it. Have any other
signs been submitted? Any other businesses for retail?
» Retail? >> Not yet. Yep.
» So, here's and I guess this is to the board more
than to you. I want to make sure that with approving
the business sign, this being the first one, we set a
standard for the rest of the businesses that are going in there
to to hold everything to. Because if we start stacking and we have all these
other businesses, not every business is going to have a sign that, you know, can
stack and fit a certain way, you know, on on top of this overhang.
Um, you know, every other business has an awning. Like, how do we want
the rest of these to feel? So I think we have to keep that in mind.
» Well, I mean in my opinion the sign that is the address for the
building is as a whole the residential part probably can be distinctive from
the signs for the commercial businesses. Again I don't see any need for a sign
anything other than at the entrance. Um but um
I think we just have to take those one at a time. But
» I agree. I mean you want you wouldn't want some signs sitting out on the
awnings and some >> you know on the brick,
» right? >> Like it would just get too busy.
» Now Bixby be across the street. You guys
approved a signed package basically said you know these are the criteria and the
individual businesses didn't go in front of you guys. It was the whole overall
there's basically a I don't know an area over each commercial unit where they go
and they have to be the cattle letters. >> So all the stores shown here that are
crossed out in red >> in this. But
» we're we're not we're not doing the commercial at this time.
» No, I understand. But what they're showing is above the awning on the
» facade of the building. >> Yes.
» So that is where those are supposed to go in the future. Is that a
general correct statement? >> Again, we haven't got a formal
submission, but that's what's been rendered so far. I
» mean, some of them could put their signage on the windows
» and not up there. >> Right.
» So, we would just set the president with the first business that comes before us,
right? >> I mean, it's unless they want to come
back with like a signed package and say this is going to be basic criteria and
they're and then they hold it at once, but or you do it case by case. Either
way,
» I just want to make sure we don't get seven different styles of signs.
» Well, you can see a lot of corp a lot of franchises and corporate uh
um business going in. They're going to have their own logos going in. So, the
signs are going to be different as long as you keep it within the same size
constraints, right? I >> think it's the only thing we can do. But
you know just the way these franchises have logo designs are going to be
different. >> Would the dimmer make any difference on
the lighting on the side? >> Not on the side prof not on my opinion
of the side profile. I mean it will on the you know effect from above you know
being able to see it.
I think it was Jimmy Johnson. You guys think that you required the edge of of
the sign to be solid so just light shine through.
So, what I'm hearing is when it comes to the sign over the awning at the
entrance, we would like for, for lack of a better term, the bracing between the
letters to be painted a color similar to the background in the
building or explore maybe putting it just on a
panel. I don't know if there's a preference either way among the board.
And then when it comes to the sign up at the parapit, the idea of bringing in
that front face to make it more shallow in order to still allow the light
through the side. Um but explore is how shallow can that be? Right. As shallow
as possible and still clear the LEDs and have the weep hole. Um was there and
then the dimmer of course. Was there anything else that was
» the location on the south facade? Um because that's not compliant. Correct.
» Now, how do y'all feel if the sidewalls are not
because they do call it something different? I just don't know based on
this drawing. If the sidewalls are not transparent,
are you all okay with it at 5 in or >> I'm not okay with the sign period. So,
» okay. So, I want to make eye contact with you.
» If it blocks the side 100%, it comes all the way out into blue and blocks the
light. It could be as deep as it needs. I'm fine with the five if it were
» as long as we cut the right >> as long as we cut the side light out
» channel to the front. >> I think that would accomplish what we're
» Yeah. >> putting forward.
» So, does that make sense? >> It does. I think so.
» Because they call it a 063 sidewall, >> right?
» They're not calling it out as acrylic. >> Mhm. which makes me second guess whether
it is opaque >> or metal
» or transparent >> or metal.
» Right. >> It just says white returns.
» So >> did you see just the sidewalls are
painted details >> is what it's saying. So
» details suggest that it's metal. >> It's a metal enclosure with a white with
an acrylic face.
That's so because it doesn't specify the material, but if you look at the
drawing, the material on the sidewalls on the perimeter are the same thickness
as the backing. So, it's like a metal pan with an
acrylic face.
» So, in that case, we want it to be the blue.
Yeah, I think so.
» I mean, anything to make the sign less obtrusive and garish.
» Okay. So, I would say if it's if it's if it's not if it's metal and it's not
transparent, the depth doesn't matter, >> right?
» If it's if it's if If if the face panel wraps the sides,
which this detail does not clearly show, definitely does not show, then it should
be thinner. But um so if we approve it as it's detailed,
then we specify that the sidewalls are metal
» or just opaque. >> Opaque.
So,
is there any other feedback or comments before we move forward?
» Okay. So, I'm going to read out where I feel like the the board is and then
we'll be looking for a motion that um the signage will first of all the south
facing sign is gone because that's not permissible. the sign over the entryway
on the first floor. We want that um bracing to be a color that matches the
background versus the blue that the lettering is in. And then that the um
signage and the parapit will be if it is opaque on the sides that it be the blue
that matches the um the blue backing. But if it is translucent, then it
becomes more shallow, just enough to clear the LED lights and allow for a wee
pole and of course dimmers as well. Um, would
anybody like to make a motion for that?
» So moved. >> Second.
» All those in favor, please raise your right hand.
» Okay. with one abstain or one against opposed.
Okay, thank you very much. >> Thank you. Appreciate it.
» Okay, so that moves us to our second action item. Uh 2025 A05. Applicant Zeve
Josman or Josman, I'm sorry, is requesting approval of a new Papa Bear
car wash at 890 Tiger Boulevard. So, we'll hear from Jacob first. Um, well,
they've already in front of you once since the last time. The only thing that
I just want to bring up is, you know, I drove by the one in Anderson and just
noticed a lot of flashing lights on it and string light going around it. And,
you know, our does not allow for string lights or flashing lights. So, I just
kind of want to put the applicant on record that, you know, that's no flash.
And with that, I'll turn over the the applicant to tell us what if any changes
have been made and to um go through the application.
» Good evening. >> Hey, good evening.
» And if you do state your name before you start presenting and
» Sure. I'm Craig Condro with the Arbor Companies and
I think we address all the comments that you guys had on the last one. Then I've
got the sample board and the stone sample as well.
This one's kind of heavy.
» That's great. >> Thank you, sir. Sorry.
They don't make those any smaller, do they?
» I'll
think. >> What slide you want to go to?
» You can actually go back. the actual
I think the main comments were had around the wall. So we have a 12 wall in
the back showing the siding also metal cap on the top
similar to the mat wash area
all the canopies are right at 12 foot but they match the same height so they
look consistent throughout the entire site as the back canopies as well as the
pay station building and also the detail canopy cars
come going into the back of the building
and then did bunch of renderings looking from all four corners.
You had a question about Holly Avenue and Holiday East in the back corner of
the property. What would it look like with the wall in the back
and also on the front corner. Basically, all four corners of the building to look
see what it looks like from the road. We try to keep elevation as close to eye
level as possible so it's >> reflective what you see from
the back wall. The coloring, that's the actual color, but the the lighting and
blue is a little bit difficult to get. >> Yeah, the color.
» It's a darker green color. >> What What's the color of the trim?
Because I don't see that color represent.
» The trim is actually that lighter color on the top.
» This white. >> Yes.
» Yeah. >> Cuz it's shown as dark like red.
» Oh, I'm that that matches the canopy. The wood color. It's the same stain
color. >> Yes.
» Yes. >> So, it's actually like a bronze.
» Yeah. It's It's an opaque stain. Um it's an art opaque stain.
So, this is stained hill country color. Is that the
» that one stain?
That's the same colors as
I'm just wondering are these brand specific colors?
» Yes. Yeah, they've got five different locations.
» And one just point of clarity now, you're going to come back later for the
sign package. >> Yeah, that's
» because the signs have been different on different renders.
» Yeah, that's just a placeholder on the side.
» That's fine. Get you started and then come back in.
» Okay.
Can you just walk me really quickly through that wall that faces the
residential neighborhood behind? I see it called out, but I just want to make
sure I'm seeing it correctly. So, it's a masonry wall, right?
» Um, so just talk about how that's finished for me so I can make sure I
have a clear. it it'll be painted on the inside of the site and then on the
outside will be the same siding. The corner and the back will all be the same
siding, the same green siding >> and then have a metal cap on top of it,
you know, to cover the siding in the in the bar.
» This here is the detail for that wall. >> But it's that
» it's got siding on it even though it's mason,
» but it's more that buttermilk green color.
» It's it's not the >> that Yeah.
» Now, is the siding on both sides both facing the residential and the inside?
» No, it's just on the outside. >> Just on the outside.
» Got it.
» Um,
Mr. Chairman, I I was not present at the previous meeting. What was the
consensus or input that they came back with specifically
that the board or issues that the board had at the last meeting? Um there
weren't really a lot of issues per se other than we talked about the um
awnings being at the same height. We wanted to make sure that um all the
noise making machinery was housed within the building.
Um we did talk about that back wall. We did not get into vegetation though. We
did not talk about that. But in terms of overall like plan, it was really just
clarifying questions asked. There weren't any.
» Yeah, that's the article for the meeting was more not that something had to be
changed, more things had to be clarified >> because we had some audience members who
asked some questions for clarity and we do have some public comment as well, but
was mainly just getting clarity on a couple of things. There there wasn't
really any direction. the there was just some concerns about
the queueing of the cars, which I think the plan demonstrates how that happens.
» Oh, and we wanted more renderings of what it looked like approaching it.
» Thank you. >> Now, we did get two uh emails in public
comments on this one. Um I think one of them was probably ahead of time and we
got one today. >> I only have the one from
» Well, we got the one from Raj that was sent in earlier with the application.
I've got one from Stephanie. >> This is just the We only see one here.
» You don't have it. >> Okay. Well,
» check the folder. >> It was
We got a copy. >> Yeah, they got a copy of it. It was sent
out. >> We have a copy of it sent out with the
stat, right? >> But basically, the property owner of
Ruby Tuesdays said that they're concerned with noise in the future.
» Oh, yeah. We got that emailed to us, >> correct? Yes.
» You guys got that email to you a while ago.
» Got it. >> So, that was their concern with noise
for future development. I'll be completely honest with you. Guy who owns
it does hotels. So I think he's worried about you know future um you know if he
does a hotel there um you know noise from it in
» any any businesses like St. Residential under the same noise order and so they'd
have to adhere to everything you know that we all adhere to downtown
» or nois put the vacuums upstairs inside the building as well. Well, the way the
noise orders reach is 24/7. You got to make sure you don't from 100 ft from the
source. It cannot be sustained over 90 dB or over 90 dB intermittently over a 5
minute period. Um, after 10:30 you it doesn't matter after 10:30 to 7:00 a.m.
If we hear anything, somebody can go and complain. So, if there I don't I doubt
you guys are open 24/7. So, as long as there's no noise after 10:30 at night
» and somebody's washing your car at 4 in the morning, you might want to go check
the trunk.
» The equipment does shut down when you close.
» Yes. >> And how about the lighting? Is the
lighting on the property shut down or other than like security lighting?
» Yeah. Yeah. So, we can we >> you can come up and
» we have full control over all the lighting. We can do whatever you guys
ask us to do when it comes to lighting. The only thing that will be on are the
street lamps that are in the parking lot and lighting underneath the vacuum area.
Um we can have it turn off. That's not like we can set timers. Like we have
timers on everything now. Um we just like for instance Anderson allows us to
have the lights on. So, when it comes to crime and homelessness, going through
and undoing cyclones and going through our trash and stuff like that, it does
kind of thwart that. Um, so that we can put anything on a timer
though that you guys want. And I just want to clarify. I'm sorry.
100 ft 90. >> You can you can look it up on the
website. It's under orders. >> Yeah, I just sent it to you guys.
» Just want to make sure. I believe we were under 80 um in our other locations.
That's thing. We can run a sound test for you guys. It's no problem.
» Great. >> Um I'm just going to go ahead and just
read the other public input and then we can get into some specifics. Um so this
is from Stephanie Platt who is um a resident in Clemson that says, "I oppose
the idea of building another car wash in the city of Clemson. We have enough car
washes already. I would rather see a city parking garage at this location so
people would have easier access to the businesses on 123. If you want car
washes, let these massive student housing projects have these have these
» own for their have them for their own residents.
» So,
[Music] financial
» we probably rent out all the storage facility there.
» I mean, I I would be interested in the idea of the lighting because it is ab
budding so much residential property. I mean I but we need safety and security
but I also would like to minimize you know how much light is
agree to put them in on timers and then if in the future if it's requested we
can you know adjust the time
all the pillars have up down lighting um that we typically for us at least
You said all the pillars. >> I'm sorry.
» Yeah, the columns. >> The columns have
» like for all >> those have up
there. Not all the posts like for the >> No, no, no. That's just under lighting
under the canopies and stuff. But on all those columns, we have an up down light.
That's >> okay.
» Color. >> We can make it any color,
» right? Okay.
» That's not on the on the back side. It's only on the side facing the vacuum
machines, right? >> Yeah. It's on the the front and the side
facing the car. >> Yeah. In the back, I believe.
» Yeah. I think they're show two shown on there. But if
» right here, >> they don't put out much light, but if if
you're concerned about res,
» but there's none shown on this side here.
» Right. >> There's one.
» Not on the Ruby. Yeah. on the roof >> which is the Ruby TC side.
» Yeah. You look in the elevation on the right side on the top.
» Oh, you know there are actually shown here. There's in the light.
» I can take this off. There's no need for me to be on that side.
» Yeah.
And so just to reiterate what Jacob was saying earlier and I've seen car washes
where there's light that reflects off the suds, right? So no flashing or
multiolor lights or rope lights or anything like that.
» Well, throughout the day there would be. >> But is is that all interior?
» Yeah, that's all inside the car wash. >> But is is it like facing out the end of
it or is it like >> No. So like there like they're above the
windows inside to provide the show inside the car wash. So when you drive
by, you're going to see some lighting from the show during the day.
» The end is where the blowers are that's facing the street. So all the lights
inside the tunnel behind the blowers, there's big arches, they have blowers
that would kind of block the view of any lights that you can see.
» Yes. You don't like physically see the light itself. You just see the the the
the color. It's not At night it's a show, but during the day
it's >> What time you guys are going to be
closing? >> 8 o'clock.
» Okay. So, you won't have to work one night. So,
» yeah. Only in December and January. >> Is that Is that an issue at all?
» Well, I mean, we don't It's mostly exterior. I don't think we really
regulate the flashing lights inside because then we'd have to start doing it
for like bars and stuff like that. We've never gotten that before. It's external
lights. You can't have flashing and rope lights. Um, and I I think it, you know,
can only be on when someone's going through it. We don't want it to be
shining just all the time. >> Yeah. I go to Mod Wash all the time and
now I went there today. You can't even see it when you're outside.
» Yeah. >> Yeah.
» It's real. I mean, during the day, it's real that, you know, the the thing about
is at night and we're happy. >> You guys have a lot more open
» windows. >> Windows.
» Again, we can shut them off at 8:00 when we close if that's what
we need to do. Yeah, I would definitely say the
flashing lights get shut off on you guys.
I just don't want the other one is bright. Are
» those all windows on the side open? >> No, it's but it's windows all the way
down the side. The very last one in the back that can be opened during the
summer. That's where the car enters onto the conveyor. There's no equip equipment
right there. It's just where they bring it. If it gets really hot, they'll open
the door. It's a rolling door. >> Yes.
» That's basically on the property line.
So,
I'm the one that gets to deal with plants.
Uh, you have a note here. um along Holiday Avenue
row screening uh one shrub every 3 ft. Uh but the shrub you're using is
a shrub that stays small. So I'm wondering
what you're screening or is it just meant to be a row of shrubs?
When I think screening, I think five, six feet tall.
Um there's a requirement for a three-foot BM on there and then those be
on top of
» I don't think you have a foot BM there. >> Hey, I'm Jared St. Yes. There is a
requirement for a car wash to have a threeoot BM on every street bridge. So
» which on this plan would be the left, the bottom and the right.
» So you don't show that as a cont. It's not a grading plan. So it's called
out on the site plan. Um survey done yet to be fair. So there is
no of that in there yet. But that's what the code request
conditions allow a car wash and whatever this is. Would be nice to see
section through there. It shows if the shrubs are
uh like the bottom of that burm or sitting on the top of that burm or you
know and it would be it would be good to see a section through there from the
curb out into the into the canopy area.
[Music] I think they're along the sidewalks to
kind of provide some separation. >> I understand. But you understand that if
a if a small shrub is at the base of the burm versus at the top of the burm, it's
going to provide a different screening function. It won't provide any screening
function as Nathan pointed out just a shrub. And then if it's at the bottom of
the burm, it also won't provide any screening function. You see what I'm
saying? I get it. But >> I don't I don't think we want to provide
a three-ft tall burm than a six foot tall bush on top of that. either.
» Well, I I'm saying it could be a shorter bush if it's on the top of the burm. If
it's >> right, if it's
» so based on its proximity to the sidewalk, the the likelihood that it's
on top of a 3-ft burm, >> it is not. I would say it's definitely
not on top of the burm there because that burm
» is basically like at the at the bottom left hand side of that page. It's 12
feet from the sidewalk. >> So, basically your sod would be the
burm, >> right? What from what my understand so
what I'm thinking is if that shrub layer got moved back to on top of your burm
and your sod layer came up next to your sidewalk one it it's less of a pruning
maintenance issue because you're not trying to always keep holl
your BMS act and your plantings are working together to accomplish the
intent of the burm planting combination. >> Um, I do have a question about this
area. So, as we're I have had a topographic
survey done since we did this and I got it back like last week. So, we've been
working on this in our office this week. This area is about roughly right now two
foot above the sidewalk. So, is a three-foot BM
3T like if the if the back of the curb is 3 feet above the sidewalk or is it
supposed to be three foot up and then three foot back down? I'm I'm asking. It
says threeight. It's pretty loose, right? So, if it's just total if the if
the vacuum spaces were 3 ft above the sidewall there and we had bushes, you
know, closer to the vacuums, I guess, to to screen along along there. Is that is
that the same intent? >> Let's see. That's where the section
comes in handy. I don't if you're saying the vacuum the paving at the vacuum is 3
foot above the sidewalk >> to
» it's a generic question. >> I mean that's where the section would
help us. >> If you look at the matwash enclosure
area >> I I put bushes there. Those those bushes
are 3 foot tall. It's on A103B.
» Like I said it's just a section would be helpful.
» I 100%. It doesn't show a burm at all. You see what we're saying?
» Right. Right there. If you look on the >> I understand. Yeah. I'm looking at Yeah.
But there's no burm there. >> Yeah. The the burm would be this side of
the those bushes. And if the bushes I think show two foot minimum height is
what it shows. >> You would actually see the burn on the
inside. All I'm saying is I think a section would make it so that we all
have a mutual understanding of what you're doing there.
» But going back to that earlier question, I would think the intent is you want
height above. >> I would assume the property
» that the that the burm was going to be 3 ft above where the general, you know,
parking lot >> no matter where it lands on the sidewalk
side. >> Correct.
» The idea is that you're >> Yeah,
that's why I'm asking. It doesn't say that the intent of the BM it doesn't say
that the intent of the BM is to do X or Y. And I'm okay with it either way. I'm
just I'm just trying to as we as we really working through this,
» you know, this is a schematic set of plans.
» I think the thoughts were that um in general car washes have a you know a lot
of cars parked in them and the vacuums are usually considered ugly. So it's
basically a way to screen the usually car wash considered off level and it was
an idea of screening more of the whole thing from view. So the idea is that the
burm would be above and then the plantings on that and then the you know
the development will be down below. >> That's what I thought. I'm just
» yeah I need to adjust it and >> yeah I just want to make sure you know
it creates a little bit of a drainage problem.
» Yeah. Truthfully, but I do see that >> it's going to be a little it's going to
be a little tricky at the front where we have a side where the we have the
sidewalk coming out um to Tiger Boulevard.
» Yeah. I mean, we understand I mean there's obviously
potentially have retaining wall and you know sidewalk goes through it.
Obviously, the sidewalk's not going to go over the burl,
» right? >> Yeah. We we got we get there's going to
be >> I just want you know we also have a sign
out there and it's for our conversation is pretty much right on the rideway.
» Mhm. And that's okay, too. Um, I don't think your
» BM tapered into the BM. It's cutting into
the BM, right? >> It would be in this scenario. Yes. And
and I'm okay with doing that. I just I don't think you want the sign on top of
the BM. So, >> no, there's a whole other regulation
about that, too. >> Okay. I'm not trying to do that.
» Let's not get into signage today. We'll resubmit for that.
» Yeah. We don't not here for signage. I'm just saying as a section would be
helpful and having us all have a mutual understanding of what you're doing
there. >> Understood.
» Okay. >> Got it.
» And it seems to me that the BM side is harder to maintain than because it's all
slope. Um but anyway, um yeah, let let's rethink that area. But overall, I mean,
it's a very thorough set of drawings. You know, it's probably one of the nicer
car washes I've ever seen. uh potentially. Um and so I mean I think
that's main my main concern is what what what happens there.
» I have a question too about the trees. I have a per I'm not a landscape architect
to be 100% clear. I hate when I see a tree island that has
a buttressing I think is the word where they build up the tree island three or
four feet and then put a tree at the top of that. Is that what you want to see?
Is the tree on the top of this burm as well? Are you looking for bushes on top
of the burm and tree at the bottom of the b?
» I would rather the trees be on the bottom of the burm and the shrubs that
are evergreen be at the top of the burm. >> Did I say that correctly?
» I think you did. >> Maybe. Um
» just want to throw in something. If the trees are within 4t of the sidewalk,
you're required to have a root barrier in.
» Yeah, you did ask us to move them off the sidewalk here, which is part of what
this shows because we got the shrub edge here. I'm just saying I'm just trying to
think will be you're going to get start getting a little tricky when you're
starting to do the uh everything. >> But also keep in mind and and it
actually doesn't look bad if you did your evergreen shrubs with trees in line
with those shrubs. Then you have your evergreen line, the trees coming up
through. if they're being maintained properly, then you have this nice screen
hedge with the vertical of the trunks coming up and then the canopies of the
trees coming out out of that. So, there's ways to do it. You're the island
sort of volcano tree scenario I don't think applies. I understand because I
don't like that either. Um, but I think in a linear burm
» it would look better than in like a volcano that I think in that makes
sense. >> But I have to say overall your plant
selections are great. The only thing I see and this is just due to personal
experience is your last plant. The uh the Mexican feather grass tends to not
be as hearty as we would want it to be. Um,
so a substitution for that which does the exact same thing, same height, uh,
would be a ham hamlin grass. H A M E L N grass accomplishes the exact same thing,
but it's a lot harder. >> Okay,
» so
» you're welcome. You said it. I appreciate that.
» Not L E N. >> Correct.
» I I make sure sound like what you spelled.
So that's why I was asking. So thank you for that. Um and that we are still going
to provide. I noticed that when I I spent a lot of time out there yesterday
and today >> there's a sidewalk on the other side of
the road already next to the Hitburger. >> Yes.
» So sidewalk on both sides of the road is the intent and the desire. And that's
fine. I just And there's a lot of I'm going to use it evergreen. There's a
lot of overgrown shrubbery along Holiday East now.
» Yeah, >> it's very nasty, truthfully.
» Provides a great screen for those people, but that's not going to be
there. No >> when we take put the sidewalk in and
everything else. >> Take out that like
» that's gone >> and it's going to be gone. I'm just
making sure we're all clear on that. That's okay.
» Yeah. And the neighbors are aware of that.
» Okay. So, something you may want to consider
is your mulched areas with the trees along Holiday East is you may want to
switch that to evergreens. Again, accomplishing something. You
could even do the trees with evergreens and shrubs doing the same thing but sort
of providing I mean I know those are >> sort of company colors but the bottom
right evergreen foam or fog or whatever that is is
» material. Uh yes, sorry. That's that's [Laughter]
» that color is not quite it. If I was living there, I would want that
screened. >> That is a It's not It's a little
» It's Yeah, it's quite right. It's It's kind
of got a seaf foam green and it needs to be more of a like a woodland green based
on what you're talking >> and so um I would even be okay and and
if because that screening probably doesn't need to be company colors for
that fence. um going with something like a
Charleston green or black forest green >> that would be just a lot more
visibly not present
» might be a better option. >> Is that the only place that color shows
up? >> No, that's on the building as well. But
this is on >> is this facing away towards Holiday
East? >> This is facing away towards Holiday
East. If if it got screened with the trees,
» basically what that color is is is if you squint at a shrub, it's the shade.
» It's the shadow. It looks black with a little bit of green in it. And so it is
truly a color that helps disappear. >> I do like the fact that you're putting
the fence on top of the burm, which means we have privacy fence and burm,
which is great. But that just makes that color even a little more prevalent.
» That's >> better than a white fence
» probably. Maybe not. I don't know. >> And that's okay. We can Yeah, we can
show that. >> I'm going to keep white clean.
» That's going to drive me nuts. >> But you know the the parking deck behind
Bixby, it went darker for that reason. And it wasn't a Charleston green, but
it's darker and it does >> blend in better.
I mean, even if it was stained or something, I just It's got to be not
that. >> I mean, even if you put maybe the bronze
of the >> Yeah. the brown.
» Yeah. The age of brown. >> You go the brown.
» Yeah. Brown's fine. >> Aged bronze
» and and evergreens instead of the >> Okay.
What you said was these are acer rub. So that's red maples on the back street
there along Holly east ever >> like evergreen. You could do something
right or something like that. >> I I would do something dense like a
Robin Holly something like that. Something narrow evergreen not going to
be a big issue. Okay. Um
so
» so I tried to take good notes. So I will verbalize this and then we'll just make
sure we're all on the same page. Right. So we'll let's start with um when it
comes to lighting the idea of making sure like you said the lighting is on
timers and if we if you know the city needs to revisit you know lights getting
turned off at a certain time at night that that would be desirable. Um,
we talked about the placement of the shrubs in relation to the burm. The idea
of maybe bringing the grass forward and then the shrubs up more in line with the
trees toward the top of the burm. We talked about replacing the Mexican
feather grass with emerald grass. Is that right? Um, and then on the back
side, changing the back wall from the corporate green color that's proposed to
a darker color and then using some evergreens in between the trees as well
to help kind of blend. Um, >> or evergreens instead of the
» instead of the trees. And you recommended the Robin Holly, right? Yes.
For that, >> was there anything else? I would like a
section through the >> section
» along Holland Street and and College
» supposed to have a a row of shrubbery along Holiday East as well.
» It's a different type of buffer than the other sides.
» It's a different type of buffer. >> Okay. I just want to make sure it wasn't
It's not there under the >> Oh, and then the sconces along the north
side along the Ruby Tuesday. >> Ruby side. You want those?
» East side. East side. >> East side. Yes.
» Got it. >> Well, it is north. It says according to
this >> boulevard is north.
» Well, your north arrow is then
» north arrow on that plan is wrong. >> Landscape plan. Yeah, that one's wrong.
» So, Scott says removed on the Ruby Tuesday side of the facade
» sections across college and what's the other one?
» College and Holly. >> Holly.
» Okay. >> Holiday. holiday. Yeah.
» And we're okay. There were two sconces on
the rear of the building as well, right? Is that was that fine to leave?
» I was I'm okay with that. Are y'all coming back with an official lighting
plan with all the post lights or was that
» It's right after landscape. >> Oh, yeah. Page.
seems very small for some reason. I apologize for that.
I think we need to note that uh that you know the timing of the lighting or
you know the percentage of the lighting that's off at night type of thing um be
addressed. I don't know how best way to evaluate that
if that's a >> lighting security.
» Yeah. >> But that's that's a sub
that's a subjective measurement, >> right?
» Could y'all could you all come with a proposal for what you think would be
appropriate in terms of minimal lighting on it?
» Can we respond to that? Can I um Yeah. Can I test it at a couple of our other
sites and just see what we think is >> maybe every other column instead of each
one on that side? >> Every other column.
» Well, >> I just think I just think that the doors
and any security points they want to have light.
» Yeah. >> The Ruby Tuesday site.
» We won't have any sconces on that side. >> No, I think that's what you said, right?
You guys wanted the sconces removed from the Ruby Tuesday side. Is that correct?
There's a lot of mechanical equipment on these projects, right? So, they don't
want people coming in and trying to, you know, strip the wires out of them and,
you know, go through the trash cans and things like that. That's why they
typically leave the lights on at most of these places.
» Maybe a little lower level, but they're on just
» mostly to keep people. >> We can certainly see about Denver. Let
me just test it at one of our others. >> No, sorry.
» Yeah, holiday but not holiday. >> Oh, not holiday, but holiday comfortable
with take a look at it. See if we think it works.
» Just test it at some of the other sites and just see what
» you know. We can't dim the ones that are
completely over. >> We can't dim the street lights
» that are on the site, >> but we'll
» let me test it. Let me see what I can turn off and I can take some pictures so
you guys can see what it looks like at night with the tunnel lights off.
» But definitely turning off the flashing interior lights at night.
» For sure. No problem. Was there anything else that in terms of guidance?
» Okay. Thank you all so much. We appreciate it.
» Thank you guys. >> Thank you for your time.
» Oh, you have bullets. >> Oh, yes. Or they
» Yeah, we're going to hold on to those boards.
» Unless something's changing, we're going to hold on to those that the rest of the
night. >> Just like that.
» Okay. Thank you. Thank y'all. So, this moves us through our our to our third
action items tonight. 2025 A07. Applicant Quinton Brown. That was just
» Oh, goodness. >> Did you guys want to make a decision or
» Oh, I thought it was just preliminary like guidance.
» Under action items. >> It was They had came back from this was
their second time in front of you guys, but they didn't seem to be I think
they're aware that they're coming back. >> I felt like there were enough things to
look at. >> Yeah.
» Okay. Okay, >> sorry. I saw that preliminary and I was
like, okay. Um, and then, okay, 2025 AR7 applicant Quinton Brown,
C CNW Estates LLC is requesting preliminary review of a new commercial
building at 203 frontage road. So, we'll hear from Jacob to begin with.
» Yes, this property is zoned CP1 in AR District 5. Um, this is phase two of
2011 fronted road. I think I've passed out some uh pictures of what the current
phase looks like. Um basically they're pretty early on in the
design. Wanted you guys get your feedback right away. When they come back
in front of you, they're going to have to ask for a waiver from having the
parking in front of the um building between the building and
street. But because of how the first phase was developed, there's really no
other choice. And >> part's already in place, is it not?
Yeah, there there'll be some more added to this, but yes, there's parking's
already in place. Also, there's roads on three sides actually.
» Yeah, everything is >> it's an eyeball.
» So, it's >> Yeah. So, we're just just to be aware
that they will be get asking for a waiver and city will be the staff will
be recommending approval of it of that waiver. Um
I guess with that, I'll just turn it over to the applicant, let them give
their presentation.
And
» thank you, sir. >> Good evening, Quinton Brown. Uh, so what
we're looking to do is build a retail building, 7,000 ft², walk out basement
style, 203 front ended road. Kind of want to
complement the building next to it. Uh, as you can see is there's already a
building next door. So, we're building on the lot beside it. Uh, parking will
be in front and in back. Uh, so with a walkout basement, you'll have a bottom
floor and a top floor. Um, the top floor has the uh magnolia
and uh see I'm not sure what the tree is back there, but there's uh there's
coverage on 93 uh and then the exog 123. So, we'll be adding landscape to the
front uh kind of following the landscape plan of what he asked uh in phase one.
And um
the landscape plan is slightly different from the other plan we submitted because
we're trying to add a little bit more parking.
So, we'll adjust landscape plan to reflect the new parking in the future. I
just want to represent that we're going to try to follow his current landscape
plan. And y'all want this sample uh of the
roof or y'all go with it just up front.
Does that match the roof on the existing building that you
» that I don't know. I'm not sure exactly the roofy's used. Uh this is just a
preferred color we did. >> So are these buildings connected?
» No. >> Okay.
just go up close to each other. >> I couldn't tell based on the site plan.
» I think this the parking lot's connected. Uh obviously it's a very
unique building there. >> It looked like right there,
» but I think that's just part of the >> the lot.
» Yeah, there is a shared drive uh and and the parking lots will connect both top
and bottom. >> Basically about two parking lots with
wide separation >> on the landscape plan. There's a
connection. >> Oh, yeah. See, so the landscape plan is
kind of old old to be honest with you. >> It is. It's from 2013 when he originally
built it.
» So in between, is there a road access in between or is this just going to be like
a grassway walkway? >> It's one unified park
» in between the two buildings. Is it going to be connected with the parking
lot with the parking or is it just going to be?
» Yeah, walkway. >> So the parking just goes right around.
It's one unified parking that's single access.
» I'm trying to get a sense of height of this building relative to the
existing building. I'm trying to
» Well, I've got comments on the design. So,
» it it's going to be a little bit shorter than the existing building. Uh I can't
can't quite read out. I want to say we're like 22 feet up there.
uh total. >> Yeah.
» Yeah. And then >> if if I had to guess because I don't
know how tall his building is, uh he he's probably
22 feet from the pack. So, we're going to be slightly shorter. We're going to
be a story shorter than him. And that's simply for call sake. We didn't want to
put on cuz he's got a steep pitch bonus room up top that he used for like his uh
his employees to use. And we're not going to put a bonus above. They're just
going to build it low pitch roof. >> Well, that's that's where my concerns
lie is that this looks like, you know, uh is it's a fundamentally different
building than the building there. >> That's correct.
» And and I think it needs to match the pitch of the roof, match the materials,
match the window styles, match the entrance details.
I mean, um, because the these are really like a
couplet and I think it's going to look really awkward
and and frankly diminish the value of the property next to you to not get be
consistent with with the style of the building. Now, if you didn't need the
extra floor needs, then maybe you build the second
level into the roof, bring the roof down and still use the dormers as a way to
get the floor to floor height down of there and entrance into that upper
level. But but it to me it is it doesn't have the same character or
or um as the existing building at all and they're so close. They're really a
pair. Um,
another, you know, thing you might look at is just if you're trying to deal with
the cost, then reduce the footprint and get the extra floor in there. But, um,
but it just seems like a fundamentally
different building, a much more utilitarian building than the one that's
there. >> Yeah. I mean, am I just rebuttal
respectively? I mean, I disagree. I think the building uh as far as like
we're going to try to use a a very similar color scheme to what he's he's
got and it's a walk out basement style as far as like diminishing the value. I
I disagree. I mean, you have Publix right next to um an old changing place.
You know, you have the brick building, the all red brick building right there
on Tiger Boulevard next to a six center shopping uh shopping retail space. So, I
mean, this is a unified retail parcel that's really an island.
Uh, and it's um, you know, I I think there's there's much
stronger obligation to be consistent with the with the style of the existing
building. Um, I mean, the windows look like they're just like I mean, it's it's
just a completely different different style. Um,
and the slope of the roof makes a big difference, too.
Um, the materials that you're showing
were those your brick samples. >> Yeah, that was a brick sample. That
doesn't look like the brick on that building at all.
» Yeah, we didn't want to look like his brick. Uh we we think his brick is a
dated look. It looks more like a lakehouse uh brick, whereas I think our
brick will >> Is it stone or brick? Stone.
» Yeah. Yeah, stone. So, he's got more of like a lake lodge look. We're going for
more of a retail upscale uh kind of white white versus dark look. Uh I think
it's going to really elevate the space.
And I actually do have his color. So like the hardy color I have this
» and the color hardy that we're going to use is very similar. So it's I can pass
this around >> like or we can use the same color if
that's >> Yeah. And if we have to we could use the
same color Hardy. Uh we have that. It's pero
Williams but we're looking at prelude. So I'll pass this around too. So the the
small sample is the one that you're proposing and the bigger one is the one
that's currently on the neighborhood. >> That's correct.
» Oh yeah, that looks like purpose.
Use that color. >> So we we are trying to complement the
building some somewhat, but we also want it to be different. We don't want it to
look the exact same as his. Well, I think this building here is so unique to
try to match it and would be asking a little bit too much. I mean, it's trying
to match the windows, the brick or the stone, the pitch on a roof. That's
asking a lot. >> I don't think you can halfway match it.
It would just look off. >> Yeah, it's a very unique looking
building. >> Yeah, that's more of a question for the
architects here. Not, you know, from a business standpoint driving by, uh, I
don't think you can match this building without spending a lot of money.
I have a lot of ambivalence here because I'm torn in two directions. I mean, I
could see >> because I just remember back when it was
first developed, there was a rendering that showed the mirroring building, you
know, and so and I I see the mirror in the consistency in this parcel.
I guess for me it's the conversation of how much is too much alike or not enough
alike and where how do you find that? Well, there's ways as a designer to make
it, >> but I mean material is one thing, pitch
is another, proportion is another. >> Okay. And and this has none of that. So,
» and for me, I think the proportion is almost too different. Like I'm I'm torn
because like for me, I guess the proportion is bothering me the most out
of everything. But I don't know. It's really kind of a
ranch proportion. What's a ranch house? a low slug with the walk out.
» Yeah. Horizontal windows.
» Yeah. It just it's it's to me it's it's it's potentially going to reduce the
value of the neighboring property. Um
and um
and I think it's just going to look really odd on the island. Sorry, unified
landscape.
help me understand this is two distinct properties owned by the same property
owner. >> No, no. Um I believe you own this
property. >> Yeah, I own the property and Mark
McKinnus, the orthodontist, owns the property next door.
» Okay. And the greater what's called the greater common plan when it was
developed. >> Um but they're individual lots.
» Okay. And then is there a significance to it
being deemed a phase two as part of this review or
» um well just because of how the parking lots are connected and how it was again
created as a greater common plan. So I mean there's lots of examples for that
with all over Lowe's with the different out parcels of buildings there. Um you
know there's public is another prime um example. Um but yeah, it's a
you know part of phase of the same project. This is just it's the second
phase of it. >> Yeah.
So without going
I'm wondering if going with gable ends just said hip versus hipped roofs
like even if the pitch didn't match but it still felt like it was
from the same country, you know, like like
I'm just trying to think of how >> which which one of those we can can be
chosen, >> right,
» to focus on >> how do you accomplish cuz proportionally
due to the fact that your brick comes up as almost like a water table to your to
the bottom of the windows on the second story, it feels feels like your
office building is wearing high waters. Like it feels like your bricks pulled up
like like to your armpits a little bit. So it makes the top portion feel very
squatty. Uh and I don't think it actually lends to the to the
like I don't think it accomplishes the elegance that you're wanting to
accomplish. Um >> you're going to have to go higher. I
mean, if you want if you're if you're worried about cost,
then you know, I mean, first of all, light under dark is is an awkward thing.
So, you've got a lighter brick material than a darker siding. So, generally the
base wants to be darker than the the the upper level. Um, I would get a a if
you're going to go with brick instead of stone, at least I'd go with a brick that
has a similar color palette to that. Uh, I would lower the brick and eliminate it
as much as possible. Um, and then at least there's more of the siding on the
building. That's a cost differential because the brick is going to be more
expensive than the siding. and um and then use that to get some
better windows in there um that have a proportion. I mean, this
does it look it's a ranch house.
Um everything about it is about a ranch house horizontal proportion where
everything about this other building is more vertically oriented.
uh the windows are the ratio of the width to the height of the windows, the
subdivision of the windows, all those things. Um
it just there's there's really there's ways to
do this without copying that building, but you haven't captured it in this
design. Um and um
Well, I I can definitely lower brick. I mean, uh I don't think it'll be a
problem at all. Um >> that's if you're trying to I mean, I
just lower the brick to save you money to put in somewhere else on this
building to make it fit more. And I would certainly at the very least go
with the color scheme of the roof and the and the and the and the um Hardy on
the other building. Um
and earlier you talked, you know, like the broken roof line, like is there a
way to maybe break up the roof line? Like you know, you've got the dormers.
I believe there's some on the front of that building, right?
» Oh, sorry. >> There are. Yes.
» Right. The gables may help you. Gable ends may help you some.
Um,
I honestly don't know that keeping the pitch on the roof is going to materially
impact your
cost. You're going to get a little bit more
roof area of the shingle material, the trusses.
See that being a different thing?
Well, I mean, when you increase the pitch of the roof, I mean, increases
everything. Labor, shingles, sheathing, wood,
all overall cost is going to go up. So, at that point, you know, I'd be better
just to put a bonus up there and build in just like you did upstairs in.
If I if I got to if I got to change the pitch, I might as well build a bonus
into it because, you know, that would match his a little bit better. And then
throwing a dormer in there probably wouldn't be a hard thing to do. Very
least we could use it as like a second floor elevated space. They put a
nice light fixture or something. I don't know.
» So, think on that one. I'd consider two things. One, you can
always I'm I'm guessing ADC is who drew these.
» Yes. >> So, you can, you know, always go back to
ADC. I don't know them personally. Um, but I'm just saying you could all if if
they can't accomplish a architectural style marriage between these two
buildings, then you may want to get guidance from someone else because
that's what your architect. You don't just want a drafts person to draw up a
building for you. uh you know the the skill and the design and the you know
being able to match these architectural languages and accomplish the cost
savings things like that. Um that's their job and that's what you're paying
them to do. Uh so you know there's there's tons of people u out there who
who can look at this and look at that and say okay here is a an an appropriate
you know, so so it is a marriage between these two buildings because they're so
close. Um, I know you don't, you know, no, they don't have to be identical, but
they can at least happily coexist on this lot where this
is going to end up, I think, creating a a visual
hodge podge that that isn't actually um probably isn't successful.
Um, >> yeah. And the architect should probably
be the one here too with you. >> He was supposed to be here. His kid some
kind of game.
» It's just an interesting lot and you know, there's something to be said for J
position, but at the same time there's it it's kind of a floating little
development, right? That kind of visually
» Now, this might this is an idea. It might cost way more. It might not
accomplish anything you guys want at all. Now, if they were to redo the site
design and push the building kind of to the other side and have parking in
between and make like a more of a separation,
would that help in any way? >> No, I don't think so. I don't think
parking in between anyway. Right now, the as the buildings sit, they're
probably only going to be 10 or 15 feet away from each other.
» Well, that's why I was wondering move the whole building so they weren't as
close. So they don't >> I don't think they get as much parking
if they brought the parking between the buildings.
» Well, and it's so steep, too. I mean, you got a 12oot drop off right there
from the top top side to the bottom. >> Yeah. Yeah. With the parking going
around the edge there. >> Spend some money. You changed the site
design. >> Yeah, you're right. You're absolutely
right. >> Okay. Yeah. I'm trying to keep it as as
close to the original site design as possible.
» Yeah. >> With with
» We applaud that >> updated uh building look. was properly
here. >> Have you um just as um some context,
have you have you actually seen a rendering of this building up against
the existing building? >> I have not. I've talked to the architect
about that. Um and he just said it was going to take him some time. He just
didn't have enough time to get it before our meeting today. because I mean it
might inform you and make you you know I mean I think there's some power in that
because it's >> I mean I can be creative and visually
put them together but when you showed that kind of angle I was like wait a
minute it kind of changed my perspective on like that's a different reality with
that >> we need to see them together
» and so what I'm hearing is the party. You want it to be the same color. You
want the turquoise the same color he used and you want the window tiles to be
the same. >> At least the same proportion. I mean,
whether or not you you go to the window manufacturer that he went to or not, I
don't know. But but at least think about how the the windows broken up. I mean,
the you know, these really are horizontal ribbon windows. looks like
horizontal storefront, you know, at the base and and and it just it needs more
articulation.
» Looks like he's using mostly residential.
» Yeah, it looks like a residential building. We were trying We were trying
to stay away from the residential look.
And I think I mean I think there's a way to accomplish a similar aesthetic but
still maybe pull back from it a little bit. You know, maybe not go quite as but
take your cues from it but don't follow it lock step.
» Don't get me don't mistake my comments. I mean I think there's a way to make a
more contemporary looking building that fits with this.
» Yeah. >> Okay. If that's what your intent is.
» That is the intent. But I I find it it's going to be hard to do with the steep
roof and the window styles and the stone color that he has. It's just going to
look like a residential building um that I would put on the lake somewhere.
» Well, this looks like a residential building, too. It's just a very
different kind of resial. >> Yeah, we were trying to look a little
different. That that was the intent. Yeah.
» Yeah. That was the intent to look. >> The intent is not to make it
residential. >> Is this early 20?
» Like I or was I going to say 20,000? 201 something.
» His is early 2000 Lake. Yours is 1980s ranch.
» And so true. >> Um I and I don't know if you will really
want to go back to 1980s ranch. >> Um I I would heir on the side of
» I'm going to give it a little more credit than that. I think it's a little
I think I meant I'm going to go a little more prairie. Like I I think it's a
little I think I like it better. It's not first ranch.
» It's ranch. >> I think you just
look it over. Choose one thing that you're willing to make a compromise, if
I would use that word, that looks like the other.
Do that and then the other aspects of your building to fit your taste.
materials proportionate
then and articulation are the key things. Okay.
» Matching the materials, getting the proportions comparable.
Okay. >> Yeah.
» And then figuring out certain details. Okay. I mean because um
» and you wouldn't want to do some of those things without the proport like
you don't want to match some of it and then the proportions be off because then
it's going to look like >> right
» well I guess my next question is if we wanted to make make it look identical to
this one. Do I need those gables coming off the front over the front doors too?
» No. I mean again there can be very I'm not asking you to make a direct copy of
that building. I actually think there's a I'm an architect so there's a
contemporary way to make it more contemporary not get into all the
details but again the overall proportions of the building okay because
yours is really horizontally oriented that one is not okay the building is
broken up with different materials vertically
okay so this you know as opposed to horizontally I mean you've just
basically in this proposal it's everything that's this is everything
that's the antithesis to this. Okay. Okay. Does that make sense?
» Uh so um so I think if you if you find some ways to deal with proportions
materials in a way that is more sympathetic
uh and window patterns that are that are uh more sympathetic to that then I think
you can do that without copying the existing building.
» Okay. Sure. >> But your architect really needs to hear
this. I mean, he really good for him to have a conversation with us.
» Sure. Yeah. I mean, yeah, like I said, he was supposed to be here. That was
that was the intent, but um >> I think luckily the recording is online.
» I was about to say this is all published and and stuff, so he he'll get
» um I'll make sure he hears it and see what we can come up with. But I guess
what I'm kind of struggling with is I hear like a broad like a like I'm not
getting like definite like this is what we need from you because I don't want to
keep the same brick. >> We It's not our job to design it. It's
your architect's job to design it for you. You're paying them to do that.
» Like I said, you know, materials both in selection and color and proportion will
go a long way. >> Okay.
» Okay. >> All right. When you take your design and
put it side by side with the one that's there, if it looks ugly side by side, go
back to the drawing board because >> Yeah. And the rendering of both
buildings together and you should >> you should ask him for that because
you need to know how they look together.
» Okay. Now, as far as deliverables for the next meeting, what are you guys
going to be looking for them to give at that at the at the level? Are you going
to want them to come back with a similar like presentation at this level or we
going to want renderings and everything at
» I think a complete site plan as modified >> renderings of the building in its
context with the adjacent building. >> Okay.
um would certainly be in terms of in in
addition to this be important.
» I mean is that is the idea like you would like you'd like this to move
quickly, right? So the next time you come before us, you want it to be
» Absolutely. Yeah. I want to get approved sooner than than later.
» Yeah. That would be the goal. >> So I'd like to break ground, you know,
November if possible. So I also understand you know I don't
know if he charges percentage or hourly but all of these changes and things you
know also cost money if if there is a you know if if
the next submitt I mean if it falls under basically the same site plan same
footprint and you have you know a proportion I don't think it has to be
you know quite construction document full sake, but just you know enough for
us to get a full idea of what's going on. then you know that way
we can say yes or man this is really still
missing it because all of these drawings cost and so
» so I guess my question would be like but would he be coming before us for final
approval if he >> that's what I'm trying to get at is are
you guys >> I don't think we're there yet
so I think there's something between >> so that's I'm kind of wondering if maybe
we come back with a similar level submission before he goes for full
rendering >> because I'd hate for the investors. I
mean the renderings >> if he's an architect or she I don't know
whether they can generate renderings of this
project with that. I mean I don't know what your fee is with your architect
whether you're paying them hourly or whether you're paying them as a as a
percentage of the construction cost or whatever but it's their responsibility
to generate the drawings necessary to get approval.
» Yeah. I would just hate to go too far down the path and spend that money and
it not, >> you know.
» Yeah. >> Yeah. Because that's kind of where I'm
already at. I've already we're pretty invested in this this here and and
basically doing a whole redesign is going to cost money regardless. Plus
adding extra floor is going to cost money. So, it's it's going to really
stack up soon. And my engineer is going to also charge for you got to redesign
or shrink the building or anything like that because that was one of the other
questions I had is uh the building's a lot longer than the other building. Are
y'all asking me to shrink the building down and go more vertical or
» Yeah, I don't know that you need to do too much the floor plan if you can do it
within your budget. >> Okay. Again, you know, I think I think
your your architect needs to come up with some better ideas.
» Just an example of how to act accentuate the vertical versus the horizontal. If
you look at this top rendering where the left section is all brick and if that
end had a gable end and then the next section the brick was down at like a
water table le level next to the door and you had more siding. Uh then right
there you have this section that pulls visually you've now pulled that front
section out and it it accentuates the vertical. Um then you're dropping that
other section which again helps accentuate the vertical that's next to
it. But what you've done with the brick is you've pulled that because your
building is longer. you've now pulled this whole band all the way across the
entire plane which now widens everything versus so now it just looks like this
versus accentuating the >> So if I drop that middle
section down to like a 4ft water table >> I would be careful of giving him design
direction at this point in time let their architect feel
» but that's just >> just changing
facade can without changing anything. >> You're just changing the the play of of
those materials. >> So,
» and the next meeting we can do the one where it was designed like that and
we told him we didn't like it because we didn't think it looked good
» because we thought this looked good, but >> we can agree to disagree there.
» Oh, Jacob, we still got to do the variance on the parking in the front,
right? >> Yes.
» So, we do that next meeting, too. >> Yeah. We're going to fill that out for
next meeting. >> Yep.
» And do I need to do anything for that? >> Um, yeah. There'll be a form you got to
fill out. >> Okay.
» Yep. Will you send that to Jam? >> Absolutely.
» I appreciate it. No problem.
» Exactly where it starts to watch >> like you got to watch.
» You can watch it at a two one and a half speed, two speed, whatever. We can keep
up with >> go a lot quicker.
Okay. >> Any do you need anything else from us in
terms of >> uh No, I mean it's it's pretty vague,
but uh we'll get it done somehow some way.
» Okay. Thank you very much. >> Thanks. Thank you. All right.
Let's see here. Do we have any staff reports?
» Nope. >> Okay. Any other?
» No. Do you guys want me to I mean it's a super easy draft for me to get rid of um
» tall signs on top of >> I mean
» I mean that is an easy thing for me to do without
purpose to >> tall huge signs on top. I mean for
hotels >> hotels
it's a different clientele all >> together you are dealing with a
transient client that is looking to find a place here you have residents
» uh that need an address >> is there any other uses that I should be
thinking about when doing that is there any other tall buildings besides hotels
and apartments >> really
» going to get built in Clemson the only tall buildings we're going to get built
in Clemson are student hous >> hotels and apartments yeah we're not
going to get office building, but even an office
building, would you ever need a sign at the top of it?
» Any any residential building should not have a
» Okay. >> I mean, if it's a hospital
» we'll have hotels be exempt from it, but then everything else just take it out.
» Yeah. >> I mean, I seemed reasonable to me.
» I mean, really, they're starting to get really garish. I mean, in my opinion,
» are we talking signs at all or illuminated signs?
» Up on top. >> Well, that's what I mean, but like
illuminated or any sign. I don't see if there's It doesn't do any purpose if
it's not illuminated, >> right?
» Yeah. They're not going to even do it if it's
» okay. I just wanted I mean that's pretty easy ordinance changed. Doesn't affect
it much. >> Yeah.
» If someone else buys it and they change the name of it and then you see the
ghost of the old, you know, it's >> becomes another apartment complex.
» I don't even have the ghost down. I mean, if you if we ended up getting
corporate office buildings along 123, maybe you could have a sign up there,
but I would not say on any res. >> Well, here's the other thing is that so
right now, well, there's there's some exceptions to
that, but >> and I still think I mean, if you go to
the research triangle, you're not going to see any of that
stuff. >> No. Okay. No, it's pretty easy. I mean,
I can I could do it by AR districts, too, if you wanted. Like, you know,
College AB, obviously, just take it right out of that.
» Yeah. I just don't think we need it anywhere.
» Okay. >> Hotels would be an exception.
» Okay. Cuz I was wondering about the light effect from being up so high
» and um you know, you wanted to be seen by people who are all the way down here.
You know, it's it' be brighter for somebody.
» Yeah. Hey, Jacob. Is the one that's on the side of Bixie, is that one lit up?
» It is. >> It is.
» It's an interesting color. I can't figure it out.
» Yeah, it is. I mean, that's the thing. We've done a bunch of these, so I This
is the first time I've heard color. I can't.
» That's why I know. Okay. I mean, you center is the one that kind of shoots
out at me for some reason. >> Hy one doesn't bother me at all.
» Halo illuminate, right? >> I don't know why. The youth center ones
only what bugs me. >> But it's just the accumulation of them
because we're going to have all down College Avenue and
» the sevenstory one that's going wants to go in that's going to want to have one.
» Yeah. >> And I mean I just think
» Yeah. Maybe we uh cut that out now. >> Sounds great.
» The plans are in there. >> It adds up.
» Yeah. But I don't think the PD has been finalized.
» No, no, PD hasn't been finalized. Neither signage signage because it
doesn't actually all it says is that you guys have to approve signage and it
doesn't have any >> it doesn't put it at this one says
specifically these are the guidelines you go by right now that PD just says
whatever you guys want >> is that what 700 750 beds somewhere
around there. >> Yeah, right around there. Yeah, 740.
Yeah. So, have we done a count on how many beds
uh we are going to have downtown in student housing? Tool.
» Yeah, we have the numbers on that. >> What is that?
» And it's more than >> is it more than what was like
» anticipated as needing? >> I'm just trying to figure out the
proportion of residents. We're still >> Oh.