[2:06] silent mode. As a reminder, the board
sorry, as a reminder to board members,
[2:09] please avoid side conversations and
cross talk. Again, welcome to the
[2:13] meeting.
Okay. So, um the first order of business
[2:18] is the adoption of last month's minutes.
Um
[2:23] there weren't I mean I don't think there
were any major changes that need to be
[2:26] made. So, they are as they appear. Um is
someone willing to make a motion to
[2:32] approve the minutes from last month's
meeting?
[2:36] » Approve.
>> Okay. A second.
[2:37] » Second.
>> All those in favor, please raise your
[2:39] hand.
>> Okay. Minutes have been approved
[2:42] unanimously. That moves us on to the
action items for tonight. So our first
[2:45] of three tonight, the first one is 2025
AR06. Applicant Spencer Hyatt from
[2:51] Signet Tiger Realy has requested
approval of new signage at 412 College
[2:56] Avenue. So we will first hear from
Jacob.
[2:59] » Sure. So although this property is part
of a PD um and the PD ordinance does
[3:05] state that they are going to comply with
the um CM zoning district standards and
[3:10] the AR District 2 standards. Um the sign
is presented does comply with those
[3:14] standards. The let's see what's in front
of you now is just for the o the um
[3:21] residential component of it, not for the
individual businesses that'll come in at
[3:24] a later date. It's just for the
apartment complex itself. It's channel
[3:29] lit letters with an acrylic face with
LED lights. Um as far as recommendations
[3:34] from the staff is just that um a dimmer
be placed on it so that we can adjust it
[3:39] if it is too bright. Um, with that I
just turn it over to the applicant for
[3:44] their presentation.
>> Okay.
[3:48] » Good evening everybody. Um, I believe
you all have the the package that was
[3:52] submitted. Um, my name is Spencer Hyatt
on behalf of site signic tiger realy. I
[3:58] know this signage as Jacob said is part
of kind of a followup from the PD
[4:03] ordinance approval uh part of the
overall project. Um we were coming in
[4:08] just for the residential portion of the
signage. Um one of the items we kind of
[4:13] wanted to bring to attention um really
just from the residential portion we
[4:17] have two illuminated signs uh from on
the parapit. Uh both what we wanted to
[4:23] approve kind of achieve was kind of an
offset look where we have on the
[4:27] northern portion of the uh west parapit.
Uh we have a uh lighting sign that
[4:34] measures 15t 7 in by 3t tall uh running
the length there. Um we also have the
[4:42] other identical sign uh on the western
portion of the south facade um showing
[4:48] from that uh piece but identical in
nature again from a a channel lit kind
[4:53] of 180°ree beam lit angle which you guys
kind of know from a from the technical
[4:57] standpoint. We had uh Jacob and the city
team review provide any commentary to
[5:02] see where it met. So um with that
um open up to any questions. I am very
[5:10] sorry. I should have caught this
earlier, but the one facing the
[5:14] neighboring property is not allowed. We
only allow made identification one
[5:18] madeification side facing the street
itself. We do not have a provision that
[5:22] would allow the one on the side of the
building.
[5:24] » Well, aside from that. Okay.
>> Yeah.
[5:27] » Yeah. We have both on that facade. So,
>> you can only have it facing the street.
[5:32] » Yep.
>> So, we'll be looking at that and then
[5:36] the sign over the entryway. Is that
correct?
[5:39] » Yes. The sign of the entryway um which
you look is kind of the letter the
[5:42] lettering measuring one inch uh or 1
foot 2 in each on the letters. Um what
[5:48] you're looking at I think from
color kind of a 6500 K pure white color
[5:54] that we're trying to achieve with kind
of a square kind of trying to match what
[5:59] we've seen among some of the other um
the other signage within kind of the the
[6:04] College Avenue corridor.
[6:11] Thank you. And then um I just wanted to
see if there was any public input on
[6:16] this project.
>> Yes, sir.
[6:17] » But feel free ask questions while he's
up at the podium.
[6:22] » So what is this uh
this P1 or
[6:28] the color? Is it a blue color?
>> No, it's a pure white. Now, the frame,
[6:37] » the frame, yes, it is. It is a blue, but
the the illumination is is a white, so
[6:41] it matches kind of our our branding blue
that we've got.
[6:44] » Uh, but the that is not illuminated.
Only the white is illuminated.
[6:48] » Quick question on the enter exit down
here. Are those lit as well?
[6:53] » No.
>> I guess blue letters.
[6:56] » Just more for uh Yeah, just more for
traffic pattern.
[7:00] » Okay.
I have a fundamental question.
[7:05] » Why do we allow lighted signs on the top
of tall buildings in this town? I mean,
[7:11] it begins to look like uh Las Vegas
around here with all these housing. You
[7:17] know, I just have a blanket opposition
to lighted
[7:21] signs on the top of tall buildings in
this town. It's just it to me it's just
[7:26] trashy. And I don't know why anyone
needs a sign on the on the top of the
[7:31] building. I could understand a sign at
the entrance
[7:34] um to let people know where to go, but I
mean really
[7:40] it's just I'm I'm opposed to but it's a
blanket thing. I know it's within the
[7:44] zoning ordinance right now, but I do
think it's something that we should
[7:47] address
as a as a as a city.
[7:54] Every every tall residential building
now has one on it. And it's like a
[7:58] competition of
of lighted signs.
[8:03] I don't know what purpose they serve
other than as an advertisement. It's
[8:06] like a billboard.
>> I think that's purpose advertisement.
[8:10] » Yeah. But so does every hotel, but
that's easier to find the hotels, I
[8:15] guess.
>> So
[8:18] » highway hotels, one thing, but urban
hotels.
[8:20] » Yeah. What is the color that this is
against?
[8:25] Um I think in the future it'd be good
color rendering
[8:31] the context of the colors that these
signs
[8:34] » would be a gray facade as we were
showing here. But that's a that's a good
[8:37] point just to kind of show exactly what
the the color is behind it that's kind
[8:41] of backing up to this because these are
kind of mounted against the facade
[8:44] itself. Uh specifically on the parapit,
[8:49] » do you know off hand which
Yeah, it's the exact same. It's the dark
[8:52] gray that's um that's showing on that
that hard corner part of the uh I think
[8:58] the pal the mockup we just uh we just
went through.
[9:03] So also looking at the smaller sign, I
mean you
[9:10] sign is is
simplistic in nature and requires line
[9:17] to be understood
during the daylight and your the
[9:23] supports going between the letters on
your stack sign
[9:27] » um definitely doesn't help with the
understanding.
[9:30] So, I would I would recommend that those
match the color of whatever the
[9:36] background structure is or something.
>> I mean, is the board just
[9:42] » I don't know what the rest of the the
board thinks, but I feel like during the
[9:47] daytime
>> look like
[9:50] » you start seeing a lot of extra blue
lines.
[9:55] » I might be old, but I'm I was still
trying to figure out what it said. I
[10:00] think it'd be I think it'd be a more
clear expression if it were a not the
[10:06] same color as the letters.
>> So, or if they released thinner so they
[10:11] want the same line weight, we'll say, of
the the outline of each letter, it was
[10:16] say half the thickness.
[10:20] No talk to the sign design company and
just give them that feedback and they
[10:24] may
[10:28] » I don't understand why it's not on a
solid field
[10:34] just have a square field around you know
behind the signs uh the letters
[10:39] » it's sitting on the awning correct or is
it against
[10:42] » on the awning? Yeah, there's kind of a
it's a bracket kind of pedestal
[10:46] bracketing um that's kind of coming up
from the top of the
[10:52] » Yeah, similar to what was that the FS
boutique that went
[10:54] » Yeah. Yeah. there.
>> Oh, there's mounted up on the awning.
[10:58] » That could be a whole plate behind
there. It doesn't have to be bars.
[11:04] » Going back to the one on the college or
the large one with parapit. Are the four
[11:08] letters individual letters mounted to
the Okay. Okay. So, there is no backing
[11:12] or anything.
>> No backing.
[11:13] » Okay.
[11:18] » But those letters are 5 in deep. It
looks like the side profile is 5 in. Is
[11:24] that
>> Yeah, that's correct. The side profile
[11:26] of each.
>> Yeah, it's a huge sign.
[11:32] » Well, it it's a huge sign, but at 40t in
the air, it's going to look pretty
[11:37] small.
>> I'm sorry. Not
[11:43] » did say it's
[11:48] » and it's going to be a sorry
>> we're limited to 3ft tall letters at
[11:52] that height
>> and only buildings that are 40t tall are
[11:56] allowed to have
>> three foot is a massive size.
[11:59] » Yeah.
>> Do you understand how big those letters
[12:02] are?
>> Yeah. If but again like you said it had
[12:04] to be 40t tall to have that big.
>> It's doesn't need to be 3t.
[12:10] Okay,
>> we can look into changing that.
[12:12] » So, I'm a little confused. I'm looking
at the side view on the upper side.
[12:19] » And is it 5 in of white?
So, it looks like there's 3 in of blue.
[12:27] And then it's not just the face that
glows, it's actually the whole side
[12:33] profile that glows as well.
>> I'm sorry, which uh which sheet you got?
[12:37] I just want to make sure I'm following
along with you. 22.
[12:41] » Yeah. So up here,
>> so you have the the blue right there and
[12:46] then five inches
of white acrylic here.
[12:50] » Mhm.
>> Is that is that is that all glowing as
[12:53] well?
>> It's just if you will look at the actual
[12:57] letters on page bear with me.
We should have kind of an actual
[13:02] illumination key.
I think that's shown just the white is
[13:06] going to be eliminated and not the not
the blue,
[13:09] » right?
>> So that's kind of the key.
[13:11] » Right. But is the 5 in exposure on the
sides of the white letters actually
[13:16] glowing?
>> They will. So it's 180°ree kind of show.
[13:20] Um so but it'll kind of dim as it kind
of turns. So if you're looking from the
[13:24] side, you will be able to see that is it
is illuminated. So it's not just front
[13:28] facing. Is that what you're asking?
>> So So the blue doesn't border on the
[13:31] sides, it just moves from the back. It's
just a background like that.
[13:35] » So, it's just the white that's
illuminated. The blue is not. But you'll
[13:38] see the white from the side.
>> Get that.
[13:40] » Yeah.
>> I'm
[13:43] seems a little much.
>> Yeah.
[13:46] » I can see the blue turning.
>> Yeah. Can we have the blue border it on
[13:50] the sides?
>> Block that sidelight.
[13:55] » Probably accent the blue a little bit
better.
[13:57] Like because if you start thinking about
I mean your letters
[14:02] are probably going to be about five
inches or so wide and then you add 5 in
[14:09] there. Nothing visually is going to
>> as as you're viewing from the side,
[14:14] nothing is going to differentiate
between the side and the face,
[14:18] » right?
>> You know, you may have a little bit
[14:20] thicker, but I'm guessing it's sheet and
sheet of of white. And so the only thing
[14:27] that's going to stand out is probably
the adhesive line
[14:31] » if you even see that. So that's a 10-in
thick visual
[14:37] like that becomes
I think it it will blur and and not
[14:44] actually make it legible.
So, it's saying it's better to have the
[14:49] blue have the blue kind of
>> block off the sides so everything is
[14:56] » Yep.
>> to one level instead of having the blue
[15:00] behind and the white in front.
>> I mean, cuz that honestly that that
[15:04] white letter doesn't need to come out
that far at all. It it could come out
[15:10] maybe an inch and a half. All it has to
do is clear the LEDs.
[15:18] So, I I think that's completely
excessive as far as how far that sticks
[15:23] out.
>> And especially the glowing at night.
[15:27] During the day, not a big deal, but at
night, that's going to be
[15:33] I don't think that's going to work.
[15:40] And then the photos of the blue bar that
it sits on is going to be painted the
[15:44] color of the
>> that's all that all sits within the blue
[15:47] cabinet.
>> Correct.
[15:49] » Nathan, make sure I'm understand your
comments. So, it's is it because of the
[15:53] three the 3 in plus the 5 in? Uh
>> I don't mind the 3-in blue because that
[15:59] 3 in is basically your blue cabinet.
What what I'm opposed to and I'm I'm not
[16:05] speaking for the whole board is I just
want to make sure
[16:08] » is the five inch lit profile
of the letters
[16:14] » because you're not just lighting the
front. So yes, it's very nice that you
[16:19] showed what it's going to look like at
night lit. What you're not showing is
[16:25] the extra five inches of that leather
that's being lit on the side
[16:30] » that's competing with the front,
>> right?
[16:33] So,
[16:36] if you're not looking straight on that
sign, which no one's 40t tall looking
[16:41] straight on that sign, it's going to be
looking like you've had a few too many
[16:47] beers because it's going to be this
weird angled blur. And I don't one I
[16:55] think it's going to be annoying. Two, I
don't think it's going to be successful.
[16:59] Would you think the fact we do have we
don't have a cut off the way we're set
[17:04] up on the side and it's kind of goes a
full 180 degrees from where it's uh
[17:09] projecting out. Condensing that would
that make it a little like a little bit
[17:13] more of a cute and kind of how it's
projecting because I think we just kept
[17:16] it completely open and eliminated on all
sides. Would that kind of bringing that
[17:20] off to where it's protruding maybe just
more directly
[17:25] help a little bit?
I don't know if I understood what you
[17:29] just said.
>> So, not coming out as far five inches.
[17:32] Is that what you're saying?
>> Correct. And so, therefore, you're not
[17:35] having as much of the
>> side profile
[17:37] » the side profile bleed or, you know,
from how that's projecting.
[17:43] » I mean, I think it could be an inch and
a half. I think all they have to do is
[17:48] clear the LEDs.
>> Yeah.
[17:50] » And I would be okay if it was lit at an
inch and a half. I think if they needed
[17:55] more space, then it needed to be a
different color. It needed to be painted
[18:00] blue or
>> or extend the border all the way out to
[18:02] » done it blue or do something.
>> I think if you can keep it shallow, the
[18:07] light off the sides is more effective.
>> Yeah. Tolerable loss.
[18:13] » Yeah, I believe our minimum tolerance is
at least an inch and a half, but we'll
[18:16] have to add a little bit for the wee
pole at the bottom to give some
[18:18] breathing room because I think the LED
backing is what about
[18:24] I think that was what close to an inch
and then another half an inch on
[18:29] sidewalls. So, we'd have to compress it
down. We can look to compress it down a
[18:34] little bit, but we'll just see what the
the minimum tolerances would be to make
[18:37] sure it's still functioning properly.
[Music]
[18:57] And
I may have missed it. Have any other
[19:01] signs been submitted? Any other
businesses for retail?
[19:07] » Retail?
>> Not yet. Yep.
[19:11] » So, here's
and I guess this is to the board more
[19:15] than to you. I want to make sure that
with approving
[19:21] the business sign,
this being the first one, we set a
[19:27] standard for the rest of the businesses
that are going in there
[19:32] to to hold everything to. Because if we
start stacking and we have all these
[19:38] other businesses, not every business is
going to have a sign that, you know, can
[19:46] stack and fit a certain way, you know,
on on top of this overhang.
[19:52] Um, you know, every other business has
an awning. Like, how do we want
[19:59] the rest of these to feel?
So I think we have to keep that in mind.
[20:09] » Well, I mean in my opinion
the sign that is the address for the
[20:16] building is as a whole the residential
part probably can be distinctive from
[20:21] the signs for the commercial businesses.
Again I don't see any need for a sign
[20:26] anything other than at the entrance.
Um but um
[20:34] I think we just have to take those one
at a time. But
[20:38] » I agree. I mean you want you wouldn't
want some signs sitting out on the
[20:40] awnings and some
>> you know on the brick,
[20:44] » right?
>> Like it would just get too busy.
[20:46] » Now
Bixby be across the street. You guys
[20:49] approved a signed package basically said
you know these are the criteria and the
[20:54] individual businesses didn't go in front
of you guys. It was the whole overall
[20:58] there's basically a I don't know an area
over each commercial unit where they go
[21:01] and they have to be the cattle letters.
>> So all the stores shown here that are
[21:06] crossed out in red
>> in this. But
[21:09] » we're we're not we're not doing the
commercial at this time.
[21:11] » No, I understand. But what they're
showing is above the awning on the
[21:18] » facade of the building.
>> Yes.
[21:20] » So that is where those are supposed to
go in the future. Is that a
[21:28] general correct statement?
>> Again, we haven't got a formal
[21:32] submission, but that's what's been
rendered so far. I
[21:35] » mean, some of them could put their
signage on the windows
[21:39] » and not up there.
>> Right.
[21:42] » So, we would just set the president with
the first business that comes before us,
[21:46] right?
>> I mean, it's unless they want to come
[21:48] back with like a signed package and say
this is going to be basic criteria and
[21:52] they're and then they hold it at once,
but or you do it case by case. Either
[21:55] way,
[22:04] » I just want to make sure we don't get
seven different styles of signs.
[22:08] » Well, you can see a lot of corp a lot of
franchises and corporate uh
[22:13] um business going in. They're going to
have their own logos going in. So, the
[22:16] signs are going to be different as long
as you keep it within the same size
[22:19] constraints, right? I
>> think it's the only thing we can do. But
[22:22] you know just the way these franchises
have logo designs are going to be
[22:26] different.
>> Would the dimmer make any difference on
[22:30] the lighting on the side?
>> Not on the side prof not on my opinion
[22:35] of the side profile. I mean it will on
the you know effect from above you know
[22:41] being able to see it.
[22:47] I think it was Jimmy Johnson. You guys
think that you required the edge of of
[22:51] the sign to be solid so just light shine
through.
[22:58] So, what I'm hearing is when it comes to
the sign over the awning at the
[23:02] entrance, we would like for, for lack of
a better term, the bracing between the
[23:07] letters to be painted
a color similar to the background in the
[23:12] building
or explore maybe putting it just on a
[23:16] panel. I don't know if there's a
preference either way among the board.
[23:20] And then when it comes to the sign up at
the parapit, the idea of bringing in
[23:25] that front face to make it more shallow
in order to still allow the light
[23:31] through the side. Um but explore is how
shallow can that be? Right. As shallow
[23:36] as possible and still clear the LEDs and
have the weep hole. Um was there and
[23:41] then the dimmer of course. Was there
anything else that was
[23:44] » the location on the south facade? Um
because that's not compliant. Correct.
[23:51] » Now, how do y'all feel if the sidewalls
are not
[23:56] because they do call it something
different? I just don't know based on
[24:02] this drawing. If the sidewalls are not
transparent,
[24:06] are you all okay with it at 5 in or
>> I'm not okay with the sign period. So,
[24:12] » okay. So, I want to make eye contact
with you.
[24:14] » If it blocks the side 100%, it comes all
the way out into blue and blocks the
[24:18] light. It could be as deep as it needs.
I'm fine with the five if it were
[24:23] » as long as we cut the right
>> as long as we cut the side light out
[24:26] » channel to the front.
>> I think that would accomplish what we're
[24:31] » Yeah.
>> putting forward.
[24:33] » So, does that make sense?
>> It does. I think so.
[24:36] » Because they call it a 063 sidewall,
>> right?
[24:41] » They're not calling it out as acrylic.
>> Mhm. which makes me second guess whether
[24:47] it is opaque
>> or metal
[24:51] » or transparent
>> or metal.
[24:54] » Right.
>> It just says white returns.
[24:57] » So
>> did you see just the sidewalls are
[24:59] painted details
>> is what it's saying. So
[25:02] » details suggest that it's metal.
>> It's a metal enclosure with a white with
[25:08] an acrylic face.
[25:12] That's so because it doesn't specify the
material, but if you look at the
[25:17] drawing, the material on the sidewalls
on the perimeter are the same thickness
[25:23] as the backing.
So, it's like a metal pan with an
[25:28] acrylic face.
[25:32] » So, in that case, we want it to be the
blue.
[25:38] Yeah,
I think so.
[25:46] » I mean, anything to make the sign less
obtrusive and garish.
[25:54] » Okay. So, I would say if it's if it's if
it's not if it's metal and it's not
[26:02] transparent, the depth doesn't matter,
>> right?
[26:05] » If it's if it's if If if the face panel
wraps the sides,
[26:12] which this detail does not clearly show,
definitely does not show, then it should
[26:17] be thinner. But um
so if we approve it as it's detailed,
[26:24] then we specify that the sidewalls are
metal
[26:28] » or just opaque.
>> Opaque.
[26:31] So,
[26:36] is there any other feedback or comments
before we move forward?
[26:42] » Okay. So, I'm going to read out where I
feel like the the board is and then
[26:47] we'll be looking for a motion that um
the signage will first of all the south
[26:51] facing sign is gone because that's not
permissible. the sign over the entryway
[26:56] on the first floor. We want that um
bracing to be a color that matches the
[27:02] background versus the blue that the
lettering is in. And then that the um
[27:06] signage and the parapit will be if it is
opaque on the sides that it be the blue
[27:12] that matches the um the blue backing.
But if it is translucent, then it
[27:19] becomes more shallow, just enough to
clear the LED lights and allow for a wee
[27:24] pole
and of course dimmers as well. Um, would
[27:29] anybody like to make a motion
for that?
[27:33] » So moved.
>> Second.
[27:37] » All those in favor, please raise your
right hand.
[27:41] » Okay. with one abstain or one against
opposed.
[27:46] Okay, thank you very much.
>> Thank you. Appreciate it.
[27:52] » Okay, so that moves us to our second
action item. Uh 2025 A05. Applicant Zeve
[27:59] Josman or Josman, I'm sorry, is
requesting approval of a new Papa Bear
[28:03] car wash at 890 Tiger Boulevard. So,
we'll hear from Jacob first. Um, well,
[28:09] they've already in front of you once
since the last time. The only thing that
[28:13] I just want to bring up is, you know, I
drove by the one in Anderson and just
[28:17] noticed a lot of flashing lights on it
and string light going around it. And,
[28:21] you know, our does not allow for string
lights or flashing lights. So, I just
[28:26] kind of want to put the applicant on
record that, you know, that's no flash.
[28:32] And with that, I'll turn over the the
applicant to tell us what if any changes
[28:36] have been made and to um go through the
application.
[28:44] » Good evening.
>> Hey, good evening.
[28:45] » And if you do state your name before you
start presenting and
[28:48] » Sure. I'm Craig Condro with the Arbor
Companies and
[28:53] I think we address all the comments that
you guys had on the last one. Then I've
[28:57] got the sample board and the stone
sample as well.
[29:05] This one's kind of heavy.
[29:10] » That's great.
>> Thank you, sir. Sorry.
[29:25] They don't make those any smaller, do
they?
[29:29] » I'll
[29:34] think.
>> What slide you want to go to?
[29:40] » You can actually go back.
the actual
[29:46] I think the main comments were had
around the wall. So we have a 12 wall in
[29:51] the back showing the siding also metal
cap on the top
[29:57] similar to the mat wash area
[30:02] all the canopies are right at 12 foot
but they match the same height so they
[30:07] look consistent throughout the entire
site as the back canopies as well as the
[30:12] pay station
building and also the detail canopy cars
[30:18] come
going into the back of the building
[30:30] and then did bunch of renderings looking
from all four corners.
[30:36] You had a question about Holly Avenue
and Holiday East in the back corner of
[30:42] the property. What would it look like
with the wall in the back
[30:47] and also on the front corner. Basically,
all four corners of the building to look
[30:53] see what it looks like from the road. We
try to keep elevation as close to eye
[30:58] level as possible so it's
>> reflective what you see from
[31:09] the back wall. The coloring, that's the
actual color, but the the lighting and
[31:16] blue is a little bit difficult to get.
>> Yeah, the color.
[31:21] » It's a darker green color.
>> What What's the color of the trim?
[31:25] Because I don't see that color
represent.
[31:27] » The trim is actually that lighter color
on the top.
[31:30] » This white.
>> Yes.
[31:32] » Yeah.
>> Cuz it's shown as dark like red.
[31:35] » Oh, I'm that that matches the canopy.
The wood color. It's the same stain
[31:41] color.
>> Yes.
[31:42] » Yes.
>> So, it's actually like a bronze.
[31:45] » Yeah. It's It's an opaque stain. Um it's
an art opaque stain.
[31:57] So, this is stained hill country color.
Is that the
[32:01] » that one stain?
[32:17] That's the same colors as
[32:31] I'm just wondering are these brand
specific colors?
[32:35] » Yes. Yeah, they've got five different
locations.
[32:39] » And one just point of clarity now,
you're going to come back later for the
[32:43] sign package.
>> Yeah, that's
[32:45] » because the signs have been different on
different renders.
[32:47] » Yeah, that's just a placeholder on the
side.
[32:49] » That's fine. Get you started and then
come back in.
[32:52] » Okay.
[33:12] Can you just walk me really quickly
through that wall that faces the
[33:15] residential neighborhood behind? I see
it called out, but I just want to make
[33:19] sure I'm seeing it correctly. So, it's a
masonry wall, right?
[33:24] » Um, so just talk about how that's
finished for me so I can make sure I
[33:27] have a clear. it it'll be painted on the
inside of the site and then on the
[33:32] outside will be the same siding. The
corner and the back will all be the same
[33:36] siding, the same green siding
>> and then have a metal cap on top of it,
[33:41] you know, to cover the siding in the in
the bar.
[33:45] » This here is the detail for that wall.
>> But it's that
[33:49] » it's got siding on it even though it's
mason,
[33:52] » but it's more that buttermilk green
color.
[33:55] » It's it's not the
>> that Yeah.
[34:00] » Now, is the siding on both sides both
facing the residential and the inside?
[34:03] » No, it's just on the outside.
>> Just on the outside.
[34:07] » Got it.
[34:13] » Um,
[34:17] Mr. Chairman, I I was not present at the
previous meeting. What was the
[34:25] consensus or input that they came back
with specifically
[34:30] that the board or issues that the board
had at the last meeting? Um there
[34:35] weren't really a lot of issues per se
other than we talked about the um
[34:40] awnings being at the same height. We
wanted to make sure that um all the
[34:45] noise making machinery was housed within
the building.
[34:49] Um we did talk about that back wall. We
did not get into vegetation though. We
[34:53] did not talk about that. But in terms of
overall like plan, it was really just
[34:58] clarifying questions asked. There
weren't any.
[35:02] » Yeah, that's the article for the meeting
was more not that something had to be
[35:05] changed, more things had to be clarified
>> because we had some audience members who
[35:09] asked some questions for clarity and we
do have some public comment as well, but
[35:12] was mainly just getting clarity on a
couple of things. There there wasn't
[35:16] really any direction.
the there was just some concerns about
[35:20] the queueing of the cars, which I think
the plan demonstrates how that happens.
[35:25] » Oh, and we wanted more renderings of
what it looked like approaching it.
[35:32] » Thank you.
>> Now, we did get two uh emails in public
[35:35] comments on this one. Um I think one of
them was probably ahead of time and we
[35:40] got one today.
>> I only have the one from
[35:42] » Well, we got the one from Raj that was
sent in earlier with the application.
[35:46] I've got one from Stephanie.
>> This is just the We only see one here.
[35:51] » You don't have it.
>> Okay. Well,
[35:53] » check the folder.
>> It was
[35:56] We got a copy.
>> Yeah, they got a copy of it. It was sent
[35:58] out.
>> We have a copy of it sent out with the
[36:00] stat, right?
>> But basically, the property owner of
[36:04] Ruby Tuesdays said that they're
concerned with noise in the future.
[36:07] » Oh, yeah. We got that emailed to us,
>> correct? Yes.
[36:09] » You guys got that email to you a while
ago.
[36:11] » Got it.
>> So, that was their concern with noise
[36:14] for future development. I'll be
completely honest with you. Guy who owns
[36:17] it does hotels. So I think he's worried
about you know future um you know if he
[36:22] does a hotel there um you know noise
from it in
[36:26] » any any businesses like St. Residential
under the same noise order and so they'd
[36:30] have to adhere to everything you know
that we all adhere to downtown
[36:35] » or nois put the vacuums upstairs inside
the building as well. Well, the way the
[36:39] noise orders reach is 24/7. You got to
make sure you don't from 100 ft from the
[36:45] source. It cannot be sustained over 90
dB or over 90 dB intermittently over a 5
[36:50] minute period. Um, after 10:30 you it
doesn't matter after 10:30 to 7:00 a.m.
[36:56] If we hear anything, somebody can go and
complain. So, if there I don't I doubt
[37:00] you guys are open 24/7. So, as long as
there's no noise after 10:30 at night
[37:05] » and somebody's washing your car at 4 in
the morning, you might want to go check
[37:08] the trunk.
[37:12] » The equipment does shut down when you
close.
[37:14] » Yes.
>> And how about the lighting? Is the
[37:18] lighting on the property shut down or
other than like security lighting?
[37:24] » Yeah. Yeah. So, we can we
>> you can come up and
[37:27] » we have full control over all the
lighting. We can do whatever you guys
[37:30] ask us to do when it comes to lighting.
The only thing that will be on are the
[37:33] street lamps that are in the parking lot
and lighting underneath the vacuum area.
[37:38] Um we can have it turn off. That's not
like we can set timers. Like we have
[37:43] timers on everything now. Um we just
like for instance Anderson allows us to
[37:48] have the lights on. So, when it comes to
crime and homelessness, going through
[37:53] and undoing cyclones and going through
our trash and stuff like that, it does
[37:57] kind of thwart that. Um,
so that we can put anything on a timer
[38:03] though that you guys want.
And I just want to clarify. I'm sorry.
[38:08] 100 ft 90.
>> You can you can look it up on the
[38:11] website. It's under orders.
>> Yeah, I just sent it to you guys.
[38:13] » Just want to make sure. I believe we
were under 80 um in our other locations.
[38:18] That's thing. We can run a sound test
for you guys. It's no problem.
[38:22] » Great.
>> Um I'm just going to go ahead and just
[38:24] read the other public input and then we
can get into some specifics. Um so this
[38:30] is from Stephanie Platt who is um a
resident in Clemson that says, "I oppose
[38:35] the idea of building another car wash in
the city of Clemson. We have enough car
[38:39] washes already. I would rather see a
city parking garage at this location so
[38:43] people would have easier access to the
businesses on 123. If you want car
[38:48] washes, let these massive student
housing projects have these have these
[38:52] » own for their have them for their own
residents.
[38:56] » So,
[39:01] [Music]
financial
[39:05] » we probably rent out all the storage
facility there.
[39:08] » I mean, I I would be interested in the
idea of the lighting because it is ab
[39:11] budding so much residential property. I
mean I but we need safety and security
[39:15] but I also would like to minimize
you know how much light is
[39:20] agree to put them in on timers and then
if in the future if it's requested we
[39:24] can you know adjust the time
[39:31] all the pillars have up down lighting
um that we typically for us at least
[39:43] You said all the pillars.
>> I'm sorry.
[39:48] » Yeah, the columns.
>> The columns have
[39:50] » like for all
>> those have up
[39:54] there. Not all the posts like for the
>> No, no, no. That's just under lighting
[39:59] under the canopies and stuff. But on all
those columns, we have an up down light.
[40:03] That's
>> okay.
[40:04] » Color.
>> We can make it any color,
[40:06] » right?
Okay.
[40:10] » That's not on the on the back side. It's
only on the side facing the vacuum
[40:14] machines, right?
>> Yeah. It's on the the front and the side
[40:16] facing the car.
>> Yeah. In the back, I believe.
[40:19] » Yeah. I think they're show two shown on
there. But if
[40:22] » right here,
>> they don't put out much light, but if if
[40:25] you're concerned about res,
[40:29] » but there's none shown on this side
here.
[40:32] » Right.
>> There's one.
[40:33] » Not on the Ruby. Yeah. on the roof
>> which is the Ruby TC side.
[40:36] » Yeah. You look in the elevation on the
right side on the top.
[40:41] » Oh, you know there are actually shown
here. There's in the light.
[40:45] » I can take this off. There's no need for
me to be on that side.
[40:49] » Yeah.
[40:59] And so just to reiterate what Jacob was
saying earlier and I've seen car washes
[41:02] where there's light that reflects off
the suds, right? So no flashing or
[41:06] multiolor lights or rope lights or
anything like that.
[41:10] » Well, throughout the day there would be.
>> But is is that all interior?
[41:15] » Yeah, that's all inside the car wash.
>> But is is it like facing out the end of
[41:18] it or is it like
>> No. So like there like they're above the
[41:21] windows inside to provide the show
inside the car wash. So when you drive
[41:25] by, you're going to see some lighting
from the show during the day.
[41:32] » The end is where the blowers are that's
facing the street. So all the lights
[41:38] inside the tunnel behind the blowers,
there's big arches, they have blowers
[41:43] that would kind of block the view of any
lights that you can see.
[41:47] » Yes. You don't like physically see the
light itself. You just see the the the
[41:51] the color. It's not
At night it's a show, but during the day
[41:57] it's
>> What time you guys are going to be
[41:59] closing?
>> 8 o'clock.
[42:00] » Okay. So, you won't have to work one
night. So,
[42:02] » yeah. Only in December and January.
>> Is that Is that an issue at all?
[42:08] » Well, I mean, we don't It's mostly
exterior. I don't think we really
[42:12] regulate the flashing lights inside
because then we'd have to start doing it
[42:14] for like bars and stuff like that. We've
never gotten that before. It's external
[42:19] lights. You can't have flashing and rope
lights. Um, and I I think it, you know,
[42:24] can only be on when someone's going
through it. We don't want it to be
[42:27] shining just all the time.
>> Yeah. I go to Mod Wash all the time and
[42:30] now I went there today. You can't even
see it when you're outside.
[42:33] » Yeah.
>> Yeah.
[42:34] » It's real. I mean, during the day, it's
real that, you know, the the thing about
[42:37] is at night and we're happy.
>> You guys have a lot more open
[42:41] » windows.
>> Windows.
[42:42] » Again, we can shut them off at 8:00 when
we close if that's what
[42:47] we need to do.
Yeah, I would definitely say the
[42:51] flashing lights get shut off on you
guys.
[42:54] I just don't want the other one is
bright. Are
[42:58] » those all windows on the side open?
>> No, it's but it's windows all the way
[43:04] down the side. The very last one in the
back that can be opened during the
[43:08] summer. That's where the car enters onto
the conveyor. There's no equip equipment
[43:14] right there. It's just where they bring
it. If it gets really hot, they'll open
[43:18] the door. It's a rolling door.
>> Yes.
[43:21] » That's basically on the property line.
[43:35] So,
[43:38] I'm the one that gets to deal with
plants.
[43:43] Uh, you have a note here. um along
Holiday Avenue
[43:49] row screening uh one shrub every 3 ft.
Uh but the shrub you're using is
[43:58] a shrub that stays small. So I'm
wondering
[44:03] what you're screening or is it just
meant to be a row of shrubs?
[44:10] When I think screening, I think five,
six feet tall.
[44:15] Um there's a requirement for a
three-foot BM on there and then those be
[44:21] on top of
[44:30] » I don't think you have a foot BM there.
>> Hey, I'm Jared St. Yes. There is a
[44:36] requirement for a car wash to have a
threeoot BM on every street bridge. So
[44:42] » which on this plan would be the left,
the bottom and the right.
[44:46] » So you don't show that as a cont.
It's not a grading plan. So it's called
[44:52] out on the site plan. Um
survey done yet to be fair. So there is
[45:00] no of that in there yet. But that's what
the code request
[45:06] conditions allow a car wash and whatever
this is. Would be nice to see
[45:13] section through there. It shows if the
shrubs are
[45:19] uh like the bottom of that burm or
sitting on the top of that burm or you
[45:23] know and it would be it would be good to
see a section through there from the
[45:29] curb out into the into the
canopy area.
[45:36] [Music]
I think they're along the sidewalks to
[45:40] kind of provide some separation.
>> I understand. But you understand that if
[45:44] a if a small shrub is at the base of the
burm versus at the top of the burm, it's
[45:50] going to provide a different screening
function. It won't provide any screening
[45:53] function as Nathan pointed out just a
shrub. And then if it's at the bottom of
[45:58] the burm, it also won't provide any
screening function. You see what I'm
[46:01] saying? I get it. But
>> I don't I don't think we want to provide
[46:04] a three-ft tall burm than a six foot
tall bush on top of that. either.
[46:08] » Well, I I'm saying it could be a shorter
bush if it's on the top of the burm. If
[46:12] it's
>> right, if it's
[46:13] » so based on its proximity to the
sidewalk, the the likelihood that it's
[46:19] on top of a 3-ft burm,
>> it is not. I would say it's definitely
[46:22] not on top of the burm there because
that burm
[46:25] » is basically like at the at the bottom
left hand side of that page. It's 12
[46:29] feet from the sidewalk.
>> So, basically your sod would be the
[46:34] burm,
>> right? What from what my understand so
[46:37] what I'm thinking is if that shrub layer
got moved back to on top of your burm
[46:43] and your sod layer came up next to your
sidewalk one it it's less of a pruning
[46:50] maintenance issue because you're not
trying to always keep holl
[46:58] your BMS act and your plantings are
working together to accomplish the
[47:03] intent of the burm planting combination.
>> Um, I do have a question about this
[47:10] area.
So, as we're I have had a topographic
[47:15] survey done since we did this and I got
it back like last week. So, we've been
[47:18] working on this in our office this week.
This area is about roughly right now two
[47:22] foot above the sidewalk. So, is a
three-foot BM
[47:27] 3T like if the if the back of the curb
is 3 feet above the sidewalk or is it
[47:31] supposed to be three foot up and then
three foot back down? I'm I'm asking. It
[47:36] says threeight. It's pretty loose,
right? So, if it's just total if the if
[47:40] the vacuum spaces were 3 ft above the
sidewall there and we had bushes, you
[47:46] know, closer to the vacuums, I guess, to
to screen along along there. Is that is
[47:50] that the same intent?
>> Let's see. That's where the section
[47:52] comes in handy. I don't if you're saying
the vacuum the paving at the vacuum is 3
[47:59] foot above the sidewalk
>> to
[48:03] » it's a generic question.
>> I mean that's where the section would
[48:06] help us.
>> If you look at the matwash enclosure
[48:09] area
>> I I put bushes there. Those those bushes
[48:12] are 3 foot tall. It's on A103B.
[48:18] » Like I said it's just a section would be
helpful.
[48:20] » I 100%. It doesn't show a burm at all.
You see what we're saying?
[48:25] » Right. Right there. If you look on the
>> I understand. Yeah. I'm looking at Yeah.
[48:30] But there's no burm there.
>> Yeah. The the burm would be this side of
[48:33] the those bushes. And if the bushes I
think show two foot minimum height is
[48:41] what it shows.
>> You would actually see the burn on the
[48:44] inside. All I'm saying is I think a
section would make it so that we all
[48:49] have a mutual understanding of what
you're doing there.
[48:52] » But going back to that earlier question,
I would think the intent is you want
[48:55] height above.
>> I would assume the property
[48:59] » that the that the burm was going to be 3
ft above where the general, you know,
[49:04] parking lot
>> no matter where it lands on the sidewalk
[49:08] side.
>> Correct.
[49:09] » The idea is that you're
>> Yeah,
[49:13] that's why I'm asking. It doesn't say
that the intent of the BM it doesn't say
[49:16] that the intent of the BM is to do X or
Y. And I'm okay with it either way. I'm
[49:20] just I'm just trying to as we as we
really working through this,
[49:25] » you know, this is a schematic set of
plans.
[49:27] » I think the thoughts were that um in
general car washes have a you know a lot
[49:32] of cars parked in them and the vacuums
are usually considered ugly. So it's
[49:35] basically a way to screen the usually
car wash considered off level and it was
[49:41] an idea of screening more of the whole
thing from view. So the idea is that the
[49:46] burm would be above and then the
plantings on that and then the you know
[49:49] the development will be down below.
>> That's what I thought. I'm just
[49:53] » yeah I need to adjust it and
>> yeah I just want to make sure you know
[49:57] it creates a little bit of a drainage
problem.
[49:59] » Yeah. Truthfully, but I do see that
>> it's going to be a little it's going to
[50:02] be a little tricky at the front where we
have a side where the we have the
[50:05] sidewalk coming out um to Tiger
Boulevard.
[50:09] » Yeah. I mean, we understand I mean
there's obviously
[50:13] potentially have retaining wall and you
know sidewalk goes through it.
[50:16] Obviously, the sidewalk's not going to
go over the burl,
[50:18] » right?
>> Yeah. We we got we get there's going to
[50:20] be
>> I just want you know we also have a sign
[50:22] out there and it's for our conversation
is pretty much right on the rideway.
[50:27] » Mhm. And that's okay, too. Um,
I don't think your
[50:33] » BM
tapered into the BM. It's cutting into
[50:36] the BM, right?
>> It would be in this scenario. Yes. And
[50:39] and I'm okay with doing that. I just I
don't think you want the sign on top of
[50:42] the BM. So,
>> no, there's a whole other regulation
[50:46] about that, too.
>> Okay. I'm not trying to do that.
[50:49] » Let's not get into signage today. We'll
resubmit for that.
[50:53] » Yeah. We don't not here for signage. I'm
just saying as a section would be
[50:56] helpful and having us all have a mutual
understanding of what you're doing
[50:59] there.
>> Understood.
[51:00] » Okay.
>> Got it.
[51:02] » And it seems to me that the BM side is
harder to maintain than because it's all
[51:09] slope. Um but anyway, um yeah, let let's
rethink that area. But overall, I mean,
[51:15] it's a very thorough set of drawings.
You know, it's probably one of the nicer
[51:20] car washes I've ever seen. uh
potentially. Um and so I mean I think
[51:26] that's main my main concern is what what
what happens there.
[51:30] » I have a question too about the trees. I
have a per I'm not a landscape architect
[51:34] to be 100% clear.
I hate when I see a tree island that has
[51:40] a buttressing I think is the word where
they build up the tree island three or
[51:43] four feet and then put a tree at the top
of that. Is that what you want to see?
[51:47] Is the tree on the top of this burm as
well? Are you looking for bushes on top
[51:51] of the burm and tree at the bottom of
the b?
[51:52] » I would rather the trees be on the
bottom of the burm and the shrubs that
[51:57] are evergreen be at the top of the burm.
>> Did I say that correctly?
[52:02] » I think you did.
>> Maybe. Um
[52:04] » just want to throw in something. If the
trees are within 4t of the sidewalk,
[52:08] you're required to have a root barrier
in.
[52:10] » Yeah, you did ask us to move them off
the sidewalk here, which is part of what
[52:13] this shows because we got the shrub edge
here. I'm just saying I'm just trying to
[52:17] think will be you're going to get start
getting a little tricky when you're
[52:19] starting to do the uh everything.
>> But also keep in mind and and it
[52:23] actually doesn't look bad if you did
your evergreen shrubs with trees in line
[52:28] with those shrubs. Then you have your
evergreen line, the trees coming up
[52:33] through. if they're being maintained
properly, then you have this nice screen
[52:38] hedge with the vertical of the trunks
coming up and then the canopies of the
[52:43] trees coming out out of that. So,
there's ways to do it. You're the island
[52:50] sort of volcano tree scenario I don't
think applies. I understand because I
[52:56] don't like that either. Um, but I think
in a linear burm
[53:01] » it would look better than in like a
volcano that I think in that makes
[53:06] sense.
>> But I have to say overall your plant
[53:09] selections are great. The only thing I
see and this is just due to personal
[53:14] experience is your last plant. The uh
the Mexican feather grass tends to not
[53:22] be as hearty as we would want it to be.
Um,
[53:28] so a substitution for that which does
the exact same thing, same height, uh,
[53:33] would be a ham hamlin grass. H A M E L N
grass accomplishes the exact same thing,
[53:42] but it's a lot harder.
>> Okay,
[53:45] » so
[53:52] » you're welcome. You said it. I
appreciate that.
[53:55] » Not L E N.
>> Correct.
[53:57] » I I
make sure sound like what you spelled.
[54:01] So that's why I was asking. So thank you
for that. Um and that we are still going
[54:05] to provide. I noticed that when I I
spent a lot of time out there yesterday
[54:07] and today
>> there's a sidewalk on the other side of
[54:10] the road already next to the Hitburger.
>> Yes.
[54:12] » So sidewalk on both sides of the road is
the intent and the desire. And that's
[54:16] fine. I just And there's a lot of
I'm going to use it evergreen. There's a
[54:22] lot of overgrown shrubbery along
Holiday East now.
[54:27] » Yeah,
>> it's very nasty, truthfully.
[54:30] » Provides a great screen for those
people, but that's not going to be
[54:33] there. No
>> when we take put the sidewalk in and
[54:35] everything else.
>> Take out that like
[54:38] » that's gone
>> and it's going to be gone. I'm just
[54:40] making sure we're all clear on that.
That's okay.
[54:41] » Yeah. And the neighbors are aware of
that.
[54:43] » Okay. So, something you may want to
consider
[54:47] is your mulched areas with the trees
along Holiday East is you may want to
[54:56] switch that to evergreens.
Again, accomplishing something. You
[55:02] could even do the trees with evergreens
and shrubs doing the same thing but sort
[55:08] of providing I mean I know those are
>> sort of company colors but the bottom
[55:17] right evergreen foam or fog or whatever
that is is
[55:23] » material. Uh yes, sorry. That's that's
[Laughter]
[55:30] » that color is not quite it. If I was
living there, I would want that
[55:35] screened.
>> That is a It's not It's a little
[55:38] » It's
Yeah, it's quite right. It's It's kind
[55:43] of got a seaf foam green and it needs to
be more of a like a woodland green based
[55:49] on what you're talking
>> and so um I would even be okay and and
[55:56] if because that screening probably
doesn't need to be company colors for
[56:02] that fence.
um going with something like a
[56:07] Charleston green or black forest green
>> that would be just a lot more
[56:14] visibly
not present
[56:17] » might be a better option.
>> Is that the only place that color shows
[56:21] up?
>> No, that's on the building as well. But
[56:24] this is on
>> is this facing away towards Holiday
[56:27] East?
>> This is facing away towards Holiday
[56:30] East. If if it got screened with the
trees,
[56:35] » basically what that color is is is if
you squint at a shrub, it's the shade.
[56:41] » It's the shadow. It looks black with a
little bit of green in it. And so it is
[56:47] truly a color that helps disappear.
>> I do like the fact that you're putting
[56:52] the fence on top of the burm, which
means we have privacy fence and burm,
[56:57] which is great. But that just makes that
color even a little more prevalent.
[57:04] » That's
>> better than a white fence
[57:08] » probably. Maybe not. I don't know.
>> And that's okay. We can Yeah, we can
[57:11] show that.
>> I'm going to keep white clean.
[57:14] » That's going to drive me nuts.
>> But you know the the parking deck behind
[57:16] Bixby, it went darker for that reason.
And it wasn't a Charleston green, but
[57:20] it's darker and it does
>> blend in better.
[57:29] I mean, even if it was stained or
something, I just It's got to be not
[57:34] that.
>> I mean, even if you put maybe the bronze
[57:37] of the
>> Yeah. the brown.
[57:40] » Yeah. The age of brown.
>> You go the brown.
[57:42] » Yeah. Brown's fine.
>> Aged bronze
[57:45] » and and evergreens instead of the
>> Okay.
[57:49] What you said was these are acer rub. So
that's red maples on the back street
[57:53] there along Holly east ever
>> like evergreen. You could do something
[57:59] right or something like that.
>> I I would do something dense like a
[58:04] Robin Holly something like that.
Something narrow evergreen not going to
[58:09] be a big issue. Okay. Um
[58:15] so
[58:18] » so I tried to take good notes. So I will
verbalize this and then we'll just make
[58:23] sure we're all on the same page. Right.
So we'll let's start with um when it
[58:28] comes to lighting the idea of making
sure like you said the lighting is on
[58:32] timers and if we if you know the city
needs to revisit you know lights getting
[58:37] turned off at a certain time at night
that that would be desirable. Um,
[58:44] we talked about the placement of the
shrubs in relation to the burm. The idea
[58:49] of maybe bringing the grass forward and
then the shrubs up more in line with the
[58:52] trees toward the top of the burm. We
talked about replacing the Mexican
[58:57] feather grass with emerald grass. Is
that right? Um, and then on the back
[59:02] side, changing the back wall from the
corporate green color that's proposed to
[59:07] a darker color and then using some
evergreens in between the trees as well
[59:11] to help kind of blend. Um,
>> or evergreens instead of the
[59:16] » instead of the trees. And you
recommended the Robin Holly, right? Yes.
[59:19] For that,
>> was there anything else? I would like a
[59:24] section through the
>> section
[59:26] » along Holland Street and and College
[59:33] » supposed to have a a row of shrubbery
along Holiday East as well.
[59:38] » It's a different type of buffer than the
other sides.
[59:40] » It's a different type of buffer.
>> Okay. I just want to make sure it wasn't
[59:43] It's not there under the
>> Oh, and then the sconces along the north
[59:48] side along the Ruby Tuesday.
>> Ruby side. You want those?
[59:52] » East side. East side.
>> East side. Yes.
[59:56] » Got it.
>> Well, it is north. It says according to
[59:58] this
>> boulevard is north.
[1:00:00] » Well, your north arrow is then
[1:00:05] » north arrow on that plan is wrong.
>> Landscape plan. Yeah, that one's wrong.
[1:00:10] » So, Scott says removed on the Ruby
Tuesday side of the facade
[1:00:14] » sections across college and what's the
other one?
[1:00:19] » College and Holly.
>> Holly.
[1:00:21] » Okay.
>> Holiday. holiday. Yeah.
[1:00:25] » And
we're okay. There were two sconces on
[1:00:30] the rear of the building as well, right?
Is that was that fine to leave?
[1:00:34] » I was I'm okay with that. Are y'all
coming back with an official lighting
[1:00:38] plan with all the post lights or was
that
[1:00:46] » It's right after landscape.
>> Oh, yeah. Page.
[1:00:58] seems very small for some reason. I
apologize for that.
[1:01:03] I think we need to note that uh that
you know the timing of the lighting or
[1:01:12] you know the percentage of the lighting
that's off at night type of thing um be
[1:01:18] addressed. I don't know how best way to
evaluate that
[1:01:24] if that's a
>> lighting security.
[1:01:28] » Yeah.
>> But that's that's a sub
[1:01:32] that's a subjective measurement,
>> right?
[1:01:35] » Could y'all could you all come with a
proposal for what you think would be
[1:01:40] appropriate in terms of minimal lighting
on it?
[1:01:43] » Can we respond to that? Can I um Yeah.
Can I test it at a couple of our other
[1:01:47] sites and just see what we think is
>> maybe every other column instead of each
[1:01:52] one on that side?
>> Every other column.
[1:01:55] » Well,
>> I just think I just think that the doors
[1:01:58] and any security points they want to
have light.
[1:02:01] » Yeah.
>> The Ruby Tuesday site.
[1:02:05] » We won't have any sconces on that side.
>> No, I think that's what you said, right?
[1:02:10] You guys wanted the sconces removed from
the Ruby Tuesday side. Is that correct?
[1:02:13] There's a lot of mechanical equipment on
these projects, right? So, they don't
[1:02:16] want people coming in and trying to, you
know, strip the wires out of them and,
[1:02:18] you know, go through the trash cans and
things like that. That's why they
[1:02:21] typically leave the lights on at most of
these places.
[1:02:24] » Maybe a little lower level, but they're
on just
[1:02:26] » mostly to keep people.
>> We can certainly see about Denver. Let
[1:02:29] me just test it at one of our others.
>> No, sorry.
[1:02:32] » Yeah, holiday but not holiday.
>> Oh, not holiday, but holiday comfortable
[1:02:36] with take a look at it. See if we think
it works.
[1:02:39] » Just test it at some of the other sites
and just see what
[1:02:41] » you know.
We can't dim the ones that are
[1:02:45] completely over.
>> We can't dim the street lights
[1:02:49] » that are on the site,
>> but we'll
[1:02:53] » let me test it. Let me see what I can
turn off and I can take some pictures so
[1:02:57] you guys can see what it looks like at
night with the tunnel lights off.
[1:03:02] » But definitely turning off the flashing
interior lights at night.
[1:03:05] » For sure. No problem. Was there anything
else that in terms of guidance?
[1:03:13] » Okay. Thank you all so much. We
appreciate it.
[1:03:16] » Thank you guys.
>> Thank you for your time.
[1:03:19] » Oh, you have bullets.
>> Oh, yes. Or they
[1:03:24] » Yeah, we're going to hold on to those
boards.
[1:03:27] » Unless something's changing, we're going
to hold on to those that the rest of the
[1:03:30] night.
>> Just like that.
[1:03:35] » Okay. Thank you. Thank y'all. So, this
moves us through our our to our third
[1:03:39] action items tonight. 2025 A07.
Applicant Quinton Brown. That was just
[1:03:44] » Oh, goodness.
>> Did you guys want to make a decision or
[1:03:47] » Oh, I thought it was just preliminary
like guidance.
[1:03:51] » Under action items.
>> It was They had came back from this was
[1:03:54] their second time in front of you guys,
but they didn't seem to be I think
[1:03:57] they're aware that they're coming back.
>> I felt like there were enough things to
[1:04:01] look at.
>> Yeah.
[1:04:03] » Okay. Okay,
>> sorry. I saw that preliminary and I was
[1:04:05] like, okay. Um, and then,
okay, 2025 AR7 applicant Quinton Brown,
[1:04:13] C CNW Estates LLC is requesting
preliminary review of a new commercial
[1:04:18] building at 203 frontage road. So, we'll
hear from Jacob to begin with.
[1:04:22] » Yes, this property is zoned CP1 in AR
District 5. Um, this is phase two of
[1:04:28] 2011 fronted road. I think I've passed
out some uh pictures of what the current
[1:04:33] phase looks like. Um
basically they're pretty early on in the
[1:04:39] design. Wanted you guys get your
feedback right away. When they come back
[1:04:42] in front of you, they're going to have
to ask for a waiver from having the
[1:04:44] parking in front of the um
building between the building and
[1:04:49] street. But because of how the first
phase was developed, there's really no
[1:04:54] other choice. And
>> part's already in place, is it not?
[1:04:57] Yeah, there there'll be some more added
to this, but yes, there's parking's
[1:05:00] already in place. Also, there's roads on
three sides actually.
[1:05:05] » Yeah, everything is
>> it's an eyeball.
[1:05:07] » So, it's
>> Yeah. So, we're just just to be aware
[1:05:11] that they will be get asking for a
waiver and city will be the staff will
[1:05:15] be recommending approval of it of that
waiver. Um
[1:05:22] I guess with that, I'll just turn it
over to the applicant, let them give
[1:05:25] their presentation.
[1:05:29] And
[1:05:36] » thank you, sir.
>> Good evening, Quinton Brown. Uh, so what
[1:05:43] we're looking to do is build a retail
building, 7,000 ft², walk out basement
[1:05:47] style, 203 front ended road. Kind of
want to
[1:05:52] complement the building next to it. Uh,
as you can see is there's already a
[1:05:56] building next door. So, we're building
on the lot beside it. Uh, parking will
[1:06:00] be in front and in back. Uh, so with a
walkout basement, you'll have a bottom
[1:06:05] floor and a top floor. Um, the top floor
has the uh magnolia
[1:06:11] and uh see I'm not sure what the tree is
back there, but there's uh there's
[1:06:16] coverage on 93 uh and then the exog 123.
So, we'll be adding landscape to the
[1:06:23] front uh kind of following the landscape
plan of what he asked uh in phase one.
[1:06:29] And
um
[1:06:33] the landscape plan is slightly different
from the other plan we submitted because
[1:06:38] we're trying to add a little bit more
parking.
[1:06:41] So, we'll adjust landscape plan to
reflect the new parking in the future. I
[1:06:46] just want to represent that we're going
to try to follow his current landscape
[1:06:50] plan.
And y'all want this sample uh of the
[1:06:54] roof
or y'all go with it just up front.
[1:06:59] Does that match the roof on the existing
building that you
[1:07:02] » that I don't know. I'm not sure exactly
the roofy's used. Uh this is just a
[1:07:07] preferred color we did.
>> So are these buildings connected?
[1:07:14] » No.
>> Okay.
[1:07:16] just go up close to each other.
>> I couldn't tell based on the site plan.
[1:07:22] » I think this the parking lot's
connected. Uh obviously it's a very
[1:07:26] unique building there.
>> It looked like right there,
[1:07:29] » but I think that's just part of the
>> the lot.
[1:07:32] » Yeah, there is a shared drive uh and and
the parking lots will connect both top
[1:07:35] and bottom.
>> Basically about two parking lots with
[1:07:39] wide separation
>> on the landscape plan. There's a
[1:07:42] connection.
>> Oh, yeah. See, so the landscape plan is
[1:07:46] kind of old old to be honest with you.
>> It is. It's from 2013 when he originally
[1:07:51] built it.
[1:07:55] » So in between, is there a road access in
between or is this just going to be like
[1:07:59] a grassway walkway?
>> It's one unified park
[1:08:02] » in between the two buildings. Is it
going to be connected with the parking
[1:08:05] lot with the parking or is it just going
to be?
[1:08:07] » Yeah, walkway.
>> So the parking just goes right around.
[1:08:12] It's one unified parking that's single
access.
[1:08:19] » I'm trying to get a sense of
height of this building relative to the
[1:08:24] existing building.
I'm trying to
[1:08:28] » Well,
I've got comments on the design. So,
[1:08:31] » it it's going to be a little bit shorter
than the existing building. Uh I can't
[1:08:37] can't quite read out. I want to say
we're like 22 feet up there.
[1:08:42] uh total.
>> Yeah.
[1:08:44] » Yeah. And then
>> if if I had to guess because I don't
[1:08:48] know how tall his building is, uh he
he's probably
[1:08:52] 22 feet from the pack. So, we're going
to be slightly shorter. We're going to
[1:08:55] be a story shorter than him. And that's
simply for call sake. We didn't want to
[1:09:00] put on cuz he's got a steep pitch bonus
room up top that he used for like his uh
[1:09:06] his employees to use. And we're not
going to put a bonus above. They're just
[1:09:10] going to build it low pitch roof.
>> Well, that's that's where my concerns
[1:09:15] lie is that this looks like, you know,
uh is it's a fundamentally different
[1:09:21] building than the building there.
>> That's correct.
[1:09:24] » And and I think it needs to match the
pitch of the roof, match the materials,
[1:09:30] match the window styles, match the
entrance details.
[1:09:34] I mean,
um, because the these are really like a
[1:09:39] couplet and I think it's going to look
really awkward
[1:09:43] and and frankly diminish the value of
the property next to you to not get be
[1:09:49] consistent with with the style of the
building. Now, if you didn't need the
[1:09:55] extra floor
needs, then maybe you build the second
[1:09:59] level into the roof, bring the roof down
and still use the dormers as a way to
[1:10:05] get the floor to floor height down of
there and entrance into that upper
[1:10:08] level. But but it to me it
is it doesn't have the same character or
[1:10:18] or um as the existing building at all
and they're so close. They're really a
[1:10:23] pair.
Um,
[1:10:26] another, you know, thing you might look
at is just if you're trying to deal with
[1:10:32] the cost, then reduce the footprint and
get the extra floor in there. But, um,
[1:10:41] but
it just seems like a fundamentally
[1:10:44] different building, a much more
utilitarian building than the one that's
[1:10:47] there.
>> Yeah. I mean, am I just rebuttal
[1:10:52] respectively? I mean, I disagree. I
think the building uh as far as like
[1:10:56] we're going to try to use a a very
similar color scheme to what he's he's
[1:10:59] got and it's a walk out basement style
as far as like diminishing the value. I
[1:11:04] I disagree. I mean, you have Publix
right next to um an old changing place.
[1:11:09] You know, you have the brick building,
the all red brick building right there
[1:11:13] on Tiger Boulevard next to a six center
shopping uh shopping retail space. So, I
[1:11:21] mean, this is a unified
retail parcel that's really an island.
[1:11:28] Uh, and it's um,
you know, I I think there's there's much
[1:11:34] stronger obligation to be consistent
with the with the style of the existing
[1:11:39] building. Um, I mean, the windows look
like they're just like I mean, it's it's
[1:11:46] just a completely different different
style. Um,
[1:11:52] and the slope of the roof makes a big
difference, too.
[1:11:58] Um,
the materials that you're showing
[1:12:03] were those your brick samples.
>> Yeah, that was a brick sample. That
[1:12:08] doesn't look like the brick on that
building at all.
[1:12:10] » Yeah, we didn't want to look like his
brick. Uh we we think his brick is a
[1:12:14] dated look. It looks more like a
lakehouse uh brick, whereas I think our
[1:12:19] brick will
>> Is it stone or brick? Stone.
[1:12:22] » Yeah. Yeah, stone. So, he's got more of
like a lake lodge look. We're going for
[1:12:26] more of a retail upscale uh kind of
white white versus dark look. Uh I think
[1:12:33] it's going to really elevate the space.
[1:12:40] And I actually do have his color. So
like the hardy color I have this
[1:12:45] » and the color hardy that we're going to
use is very similar. So it's I can pass
[1:12:49] this around
>> like or we can use the same color if
[1:12:52] that's
>> Yeah. And if we have to we could use the
[1:12:54] same color Hardy. Uh we have that. It's
pero
[1:12:59] Williams but we're looking at prelude.
So I'll pass this around too. So the the
[1:13:04] small sample is the one that you're
proposing and the bigger one is the one
[1:13:08] that's currently on the neighborhood.
>> That's correct.
[1:13:12] » Oh yeah, that looks like purpose.
[1:13:17] Use that color.
>> So we we are trying to complement the
[1:13:20] building some somewhat, but we also want
it to be different. We don't want it to
[1:13:25] look the exact same as his. Well, I
think this building here is so unique to
[1:13:30] try to match it and would be asking a
little bit too much. I mean, it's trying
[1:13:34] to match the windows, the brick or the
stone, the pitch on a roof. That's
[1:13:38] asking a lot.
>> I don't think you can halfway match it.
[1:13:41] It would just look off.
>> Yeah, it's a very unique looking
[1:13:46] building.
>> Yeah, that's more of a question for the
[1:13:48] architects here. Not, you know, from a
business standpoint driving by, uh, I
[1:13:53] don't think you can match this building
without spending a lot of money.
[1:13:59] I have a lot of ambivalence here because
I'm torn in two directions. I mean, I
[1:14:03] could see
>> because I just remember back when it was
[1:14:06] first developed, there was a rendering
that showed the mirroring building, you
[1:14:09] know, and so and I I see the mirror in
the consistency in this parcel.
[1:14:20] I guess for me it's the conversation of
how much is too much alike or not enough
[1:14:23] alike and where how do you find that?
Well, there's ways as a designer to make
[1:14:27] it,
>> but I mean material is one thing, pitch
[1:14:31] is another, proportion is another.
>> Okay. And and this has none of that. So,
[1:14:37] » and for me, I think the proportion is
almost too different. Like I'm I'm torn
[1:14:43] because like for me, I guess the
proportion is bothering me the most out
[1:14:46] of everything. But
I don't know. It's really kind of a
[1:14:51] ranch proportion. What's a ranch house?
a low slug with the walk out.
[1:14:57] » Yeah. Horizontal windows.
[1:15:01] » Yeah. It just it's it's to me it's it's
it's potentially going to reduce the
[1:15:09] value of the neighboring property.
Um
[1:15:13] and um
[1:15:18] and I think it's just going to look
really odd on the island. Sorry, unified
[1:15:22] landscape.
[1:15:29] help me understand this is two distinct
properties owned by the same property
[1:15:34] owner.
>> No, no. Um I believe you own this
[1:15:37] property.
>> Yeah, I own the property and Mark
[1:15:40] McKinnus, the orthodontist, owns the
property next door.
[1:15:43] » Okay. And the greater what's called the
greater common plan when it was
[1:15:46] developed.
>> Um but they're individual lots.
[1:15:50] » Okay.
And then is there a significance to it
[1:15:54] being deemed a phase two as part of this
review or
[1:15:58] » um well just because of how the parking
lots are connected and how it was again
[1:16:03] created as a greater common plan. So I
mean there's lots of examples for that
[1:16:08] with all over Lowe's with the different
out parcels of buildings there. Um you
[1:16:13] know there's public is another prime um
example. Um but yeah, it's a
[1:16:20] you know part of phase of the same
project. This is just it's the second
[1:16:25] phase of it.
>> Yeah.
[1:16:32] So without going
[1:16:41] I'm wondering if going with gable ends
just said hip versus hipped roofs
[1:16:51] like even if the pitch didn't match but
it still felt like it was
[1:17:01] from the same country,
you know, like like
[1:17:08] I'm just trying to think of how
>> which which one of those we can can be
[1:17:13] chosen,
>> right,
[1:17:14] » to focus on
>> how do you accomplish cuz proportionally
[1:17:18] due to the fact that your brick comes up
as almost like a water table to your to
[1:17:25] the bottom of the windows on the second
story, it feels feels like your
[1:17:30] office building is wearing high waters.
Like it feels like your bricks pulled up
[1:17:35] like like to your armpits a little bit.
So it makes the top portion feel very
[1:17:41] squatty. Uh and I don't think it
actually lends to the to the
[1:17:49] like I don't think it accomplishes the
elegance that you're wanting to
[1:17:53] accomplish. Um
>> you're going to have to go higher. I
[1:17:56] mean, if you want if you're if you're
worried about cost,
[1:18:00] then you know, I mean, first of all,
light under dark is is an awkward thing.
[1:18:08] So, you've got a lighter brick material
than a darker siding. So, generally the
[1:18:13] base wants to be darker than the the the
upper level. Um, I would get a a if
[1:18:22] you're going to go with brick instead of
stone, at least I'd go with a brick that
[1:18:25] has a similar color palette to that. Uh,
I would lower the brick and eliminate it
[1:18:33] as much as possible. Um, and then at
least there's more of the siding on the
[1:18:40] building. That's a cost differential
because the brick is going to be more
[1:18:42] expensive than the siding.
and um and then use that to get some
[1:18:50] better windows in there
um that have a proportion. I mean, this
[1:18:56] does it look it's a ranch house.
[1:19:00] Um everything about it is about a ranch
house horizontal proportion where
[1:19:05] everything about this other building is
more vertically oriented.
[1:19:10] uh the windows are the ratio of the
width to the height of the windows, the
[1:19:14] subdivision of the windows, all those
things. Um
[1:19:22] it just
there's there's really there's ways to
[1:19:28] do this without copying that building,
but you haven't captured it in this
[1:19:32] design.
Um and um
[1:19:46] Well, I I can definitely lower brick. I
mean, uh I don't think it'll be a
[1:19:50] problem at all. Um
>> that's if you're trying to I mean, I
[1:19:53] just lower the brick to save you money
to put in somewhere else on this
[1:19:57] building to make it fit more. And I
would certainly at the very least go
[1:20:02] with the color scheme of the roof and
the and the and the and the um Hardy on
[1:20:09] the other building. Um
[1:20:14] and earlier you talked, you know, like
the broken roof line, like is there a
[1:20:17] way to maybe break up the roof line?
Like you know, you've got the dormers.
[1:20:21] I believe there's some on the front of
that building, right?
[1:20:24] » Oh, sorry.
>> There are. Yes.
[1:20:26] » Right. The gables may help you. Gable
ends may help you some.
[1:20:32] Um,
[1:20:35] I honestly don't know that keeping the
pitch on the roof is going to materially
[1:20:40] impact your
[1:20:46] cost.
You're going to get a little bit more
[1:20:49] roof area of the shingle material,
the trusses.
[1:20:56] See that being
a different thing?
[1:21:03] Well, I mean, when you increase the
pitch of the roof, I mean, increases
[1:21:06] everything. Labor,
shingles, sheathing, wood,
[1:21:12] all overall cost is going to go up. So,
at that point, you know, I'd be better
[1:21:17] just to put a bonus up there and build
in just like you did upstairs in.
[1:21:24] If I if I got to if I got to change the
pitch, I might as well build a bonus
[1:21:27] into it because, you know, that would
match his a little bit better. And then
[1:21:31] throwing a dormer in there probably
wouldn't be a hard thing to do. Very
[1:21:35] least we could use it as like a
second floor elevated space. They put a
[1:21:41] nice light fixture or something. I don't
know.
[1:21:45] » So, think on that one.
I'd consider two things. One, you can
[1:21:50] always I'm I'm guessing ADC is who drew
these.
[1:21:54] » Yes.
>> So, you can, you know, always go back to
[1:21:58] ADC. I don't know them personally. Um,
but I'm just saying you could all if if
[1:22:05] they can't accomplish a architectural
style marriage between these two
[1:22:12] buildings, then you may want to get
guidance from someone else because
[1:22:19] that's what your architect. You don't
just want a drafts person to draw up a
[1:22:24] building for you. uh you know the the
skill and the design and the you know
[1:22:29] being able to match these architectural
languages and accomplish the cost
[1:22:34] savings things like that. Um that's
their job and that's what you're paying
[1:22:40] them to do. Uh so you know there's
there's tons of people u out there who
[1:22:47] who can look at this and look at that
and say okay here is a an an appropriate
[1:22:55] you know, so so it is a marriage between
these two buildings because they're so
[1:23:01] close. Um, I know you don't, you know,
no, they don't have to be identical, but
[1:23:08] they can at least
happily coexist on this lot where this
[1:23:13] is going to end up, I think, creating a
a visual
[1:23:18] hodge podge that that isn't actually um
probably isn't successful.
[1:23:27] Um,
>> yeah. And the architect should probably
[1:23:31] be the one here too with you.
>> He was supposed to be here. His kid some
[1:23:35] kind of game.
[1:23:39] » It's just an interesting lot and you
know, there's something to be said for J
[1:23:42] position, but at the same time there's
it it's kind of a floating little
[1:23:46] development, right? That kind of
visually
[1:23:50] » Now, this might this is an idea. It
might cost way more. It might not
[1:23:55] accomplish anything you guys want at
all. Now, if they were to redo the site
[1:23:59] design and push the building kind of to
the other side and have parking in
[1:24:02] between and make like a more of a
separation,
[1:24:06] would that help in any way?
>> No, I don't think so. I don't think
[1:24:11] parking in between anyway. Right now,
the as the buildings sit, they're
[1:24:15] probably only going to be 10 or 15 feet
away from each other.
[1:24:17] » Well, that's why I was wondering move
the whole building so they weren't as
[1:24:20] close. So they don't
>> I don't think they get as much parking
[1:24:22] if they brought the parking between the
buildings.
[1:24:24] » Well, and it's so steep, too. I mean,
you got a 12oot drop off right there
[1:24:28] from the top top side to the bottom.
>> Yeah. Yeah. With the parking going
[1:24:31] around the edge there.
>> Spend some money. You changed the site
[1:24:35] design.
>> Yeah, you're right. You're absolutely
[1:24:37] right.
>> Okay. Yeah. I'm trying to keep it as as
[1:24:41] close to the original site design as
possible.
[1:24:44] » Yeah.
>> With with
[1:24:45] » We applaud that
>> updated uh building look. was properly
[1:24:50] here.
>> Have you um just as um some context,
[1:24:55] have you have you actually seen a
rendering of this building up against
[1:24:58] the existing building?
>> I have not. I've talked to the architect
[1:25:02] about that. Um and he just said it was
going to take him some time. He just
[1:25:05] didn't have enough time to get it before
our meeting today. because I mean it
[1:25:08] might inform you and make you you know I
mean I think there's some power in that
[1:25:13] because it's
>> I mean I can be creative and visually
[1:25:16] put them together but when you showed
that kind of angle I was like wait a
[1:25:20] minute it kind of changed my perspective
on like that's a different reality with
[1:25:24] that
>> we need to see them together
[1:25:35] » and so what I'm hearing is the party.
You want it to be the same color. You
[1:25:39] want the turquoise the same color he
used and you want the window tiles to be
[1:25:43] the same.
>> At least the same proportion. I mean,
[1:25:46] whether or not you you go to the window
manufacturer that he went to or not, I
[1:25:54] don't know. But but at least think about
how the the windows broken up. I mean,
[1:26:00] the you know, these really are
horizontal ribbon windows. looks like
[1:26:05] horizontal storefront, you know, at the
base and and and it just it needs more
[1:26:13] articulation.
[1:26:19] » Looks like he's using mostly
residential.
[1:26:22] » Yeah, it looks like a residential
building. We were trying We were trying
[1:26:24] to stay away from the residential look.
[1:26:30] And I think I mean I think there's a way
to accomplish a similar aesthetic but
[1:26:34] still maybe pull back from it a little
bit. You know, maybe not go quite as but
[1:26:39] take your cues from it but don't follow
it lock step.
[1:26:42] » Don't get me don't mistake my comments.
I mean I think there's a way to make a
[1:26:47] more contemporary looking building that
fits with this.
[1:26:50] » Yeah.
>> Okay. If that's what your intent is.
[1:26:55] » That is the intent. But I I find it it's
going to be hard to do with the steep
[1:26:59] roof and the window styles and the stone
color that he has. It's just going to
[1:27:03] look like a residential building um that
I would put on the lake somewhere.
[1:27:07] » Well, this looks like a residential
building, too. It's just a very
[1:27:10] different kind of resial.
>> Yeah, we were trying to look a little
[1:27:12] different. That that was the intent.
Yeah.
[1:27:14] » Yeah. That was the intent to look.
>> The intent is not to make it
[1:27:17] residential.
>> Is this early 20?
[1:27:20] » Like I or was I going to say 20,000? 201
something.
[1:27:26] » His is early 2000 Lake. Yours is 1980s
ranch.
[1:27:31] » And so true.
>> Um I and I don't know if you will really
[1:27:35] want to go back to 1980s ranch.
>> Um I I would heir on the side of
[1:27:42] » I'm going to give it a little more
credit than that. I think it's a little
[1:27:44] I think I meant I'm going to go a little
more prairie. Like I I think it's a
[1:27:49] little I think I like it better. It's
not first ranch.
[1:27:54] » It's ranch.
>> I think you just
[1:27:57] look it over. Choose one thing that
you're willing to make a compromise, if
[1:28:03] I would use that word, that looks like
the other.
[1:28:07] Do that and then the other aspects of
your building to fit your taste.
[1:28:13] materials proportionate
[1:28:18] then and articulation are the key
things. Okay.
[1:28:22] » Matching the materials,
getting the proportions comparable.
[1:28:27] Okay.
>> Yeah.
[1:28:29] » And then figuring out certain details.
Okay. I mean because um
[1:28:36] » and you wouldn't want to do some of
those things without the proport like
[1:28:38] you don't want to match some of it and
then the proportions be off because then
[1:28:42] it's going to look like
>> right
[1:28:45] » well I guess my next question is if we
wanted to make make it look identical to
[1:28:49] this one. Do I need those gables coming
off the front over the front doors too?
[1:28:54] » No. I mean again there can be very I'm
not asking you to make a direct copy of
[1:28:59] that building. I actually think there's
a I'm an architect so there's a
[1:29:03] contemporary way to make it more
contemporary not get into all the
[1:29:06] details but again the overall
proportions of the building okay because
[1:29:11] yours is really horizontally oriented
that one is not okay the building is
[1:29:16] broken up with different materials
vertically
[1:29:19] okay so this you know as opposed to
horizontally I mean you've just
[1:29:24] basically in this proposal it's
everything that's this is everything
[1:29:28] that's the antithesis to this. Okay.
Okay. Does that make sense?
[1:29:33] » Uh so um so I think if you if you find
some ways to deal with proportions
[1:29:39] materials
in a way that is more sympathetic
[1:29:44] uh and window patterns that are that are
uh more sympathetic to that then I think
[1:29:51] you can do that without copying the
existing building.
[1:29:56] » Okay. Sure.
>> But your architect really needs to hear
[1:30:00] this. I mean, he really good for him to
have a conversation with us.
[1:30:05] » Sure. Yeah. I mean, yeah, like I said,
he was supposed to be here. That was
[1:30:08] that was the intent, but um
>> I think luckily the recording is online.
[1:30:12] » I was about to say this is all published
and and stuff, so he he'll get
[1:30:17] » um I'll make sure he hears it and see
what we can come up with. But I guess
[1:30:22] what I'm kind of struggling with is I
hear like a broad like a like I'm not
[1:30:26] getting like definite like this is what
we need from you because I don't want to
[1:30:30] keep the same brick.
>> We It's not our job to design it. It's
[1:30:34] your architect's job to design it for
you. You're paying them to do that.
[1:30:38] » Like I said, you know, materials both in
selection and color and proportion will
[1:30:44] go a long way.
>> Okay.
[1:30:48] » Okay.
>> All right. When you take your design and
[1:30:51] put it side by side with the one that's
there, if it looks ugly side by side, go
[1:30:55] back to the drawing board because
>> Yeah. And the rendering of both
[1:30:58] buildings together and you should
>> you should ask him for that because
[1:31:04] you need to know how they look together.
[1:31:14] » Okay. Now, as far as deliverables for
the next meeting, what are you guys
[1:31:18] going to be looking for them to give at
that at the at the level? Are you going
[1:31:21] to want them to come back with a similar
like presentation at this level or we
[1:31:26] going to want renderings and everything
at
[1:31:27] » I think a complete site plan as modified
>> renderings of the building in its
[1:31:33] context with the adjacent building.
>> Okay.
[1:31:36] um
would certainly be in terms of in in
[1:31:40] addition to this
be important.
[1:31:48] » I mean is that is the idea like you
would like you'd like this to move
[1:31:51] quickly, right? So the next time you
come before us, you want it to be
[1:31:54] » Absolutely. Yeah. I want to get approved
sooner than than later.
[1:31:57] » Yeah. That would be the goal.
>> So I'd like to break ground, you know,
[1:32:00] November if possible.
So I also understand you know I don't
[1:32:07] know if he charges percentage or hourly
but all of these changes and things you
[1:32:12] know also cost money if if there is a
you know if if
[1:32:20] the next submitt I mean if it falls
under basically the same site plan same
[1:32:24] footprint and you have you know a
proportion I don't think it has to be
[1:32:31] you know quite construction document
full sake, but just you know enough for
[1:32:38] us to get a full idea of what's going
on. then you know that way
[1:32:46] we can say yes or man this is really
still
[1:32:52] missing it because all of these drawings
cost and so
[1:32:56] » so I guess my question would be like but
would he be coming before us for final
[1:33:00] approval if he
>> that's what I'm trying to get at is are
[1:33:03] you guys
>> I don't think we're there yet
[1:33:07] so I think there's something between
>> so that's I'm kind of wondering if maybe
[1:33:10] we come back with a similar level
submission before he goes for full
[1:33:13] rendering
>> because I'd hate for the investors. I
[1:33:16] mean the renderings
>> if he's an architect or she I don't know
[1:33:22] whether
they can generate renderings of this
[1:33:26] project with that. I mean I don't know
what your fee is with your architect
[1:33:30] whether you're paying them hourly or
whether you're paying them as a as a
[1:33:34] percentage of the construction cost or
whatever but it's their responsibility
[1:33:37] to generate the drawings necessary to
get approval.
[1:33:40] » Yeah. I would just hate to go too far
down the path and spend that money and
[1:33:43] it not,
>> you know.
[1:33:45] » Yeah.
>> Yeah. Because that's kind of where I'm
[1:33:47] already at. I've already we're pretty
invested in this this here and and
[1:33:52] basically doing a whole redesign is
going to cost money regardless. Plus
[1:33:56] adding extra floor is going to cost
money. So, it's it's going to really
[1:33:59] stack up soon. And my engineer is going
to also charge for you got to redesign
[1:34:04] or shrink the building or anything like
that because that was one of the other
[1:34:08] questions I had is uh the building's a
lot longer than the other building. Are
[1:34:13] y'all asking me to shrink the building
down and go more vertical or
[1:34:19] » Yeah, I don't know that you need to do
too much the floor plan if you can do it
[1:34:22] within your budget.
>> Okay. Again, you know, I think I think
[1:34:30] your your architect needs to come up
with some better ideas.
[1:34:34] » Just an example of how to act accentuate
the vertical versus the horizontal. If
[1:34:39] you look at this top rendering where the
left section is all brick and if that
[1:34:46] end had a gable end and then the next
section the brick was down at like a
[1:34:52] water table le level next to the door
and you had more siding. Uh then right
[1:34:59] there you have this section that pulls
visually you've now pulled that front
[1:35:04] section out and it it accentuates the
vertical. Um then you're dropping that
[1:35:11] other section which again helps
accentuate the vertical that's next to
[1:35:15] it. But what you've done with the brick
is you've pulled that because your
[1:35:20] building is longer. you've now pulled
this whole band all the way across the
[1:35:24] entire plane which now widens everything
versus so now it just looks like this
[1:35:33] versus accentuating the
>> So if I drop that middle
[1:35:38] section down to like a 4ft water table
>> I would be careful of giving him design
[1:35:44] direction at this point in time let
their architect feel
[1:35:47] » but that's just
>> just changing
[1:35:51] facade can without changing anything.
>> You're just changing the the play of of
[1:35:59] those materials.
>> So,
[1:36:04] » and the next meeting we can do the
one where it was designed like that and
[1:36:08] we told him we didn't like it because we
didn't think it looked good
[1:36:11] » because we thought this looked good, but
>> we can agree to disagree there.
[1:36:16] » Oh, Jacob, we still got to do the
variance on the parking in the front,
[1:36:18] right?
>> Yes.
[1:36:19] » So, we do that next meeting, too.
>> Yeah. We're going to fill that out for
[1:36:22] next meeting.
>> Yep.
[1:36:26] » And do I need to do anything for that?
>> Um, yeah. There'll be a form you got to
[1:36:30] fill out.
>> Okay.
[1:36:31] » Yep. Will you send that to Jam?
>> Absolutely.
[1:36:33] » I appreciate it. No problem.
[1:36:40] » Exactly where it starts to watch
>> like you got to watch.
[1:36:45] » You can watch it at a two one and a half
speed, two speed, whatever. We can keep
[1:36:48] up with
>> go a lot quicker.
[1:36:51] Okay.
>> Any do you need anything else from us in
[1:36:54] terms of
>> uh No, I mean it's it's pretty vague,
[1:36:58] but uh we'll get it done somehow some
way.
[1:37:05] » Okay. Thank you very much.
>> Thanks. Thank you. All right.
[1:37:10] Let's see here. Do we have any staff
reports?
[1:37:13] » Nope.
>> Okay. Any other?
[1:37:15] » No. Do you guys want me to I mean it's a
super easy draft for me to get rid of um
[1:37:22] » tall signs on top of
>> I mean
[1:37:24] » I mean that is an easy thing for me to
do without
[1:37:28] purpose to
>> tall huge signs on top. I mean for
[1:37:34] hotels
>> hotels
[1:37:36] it's a different clientele all
>> together you are dealing with a
[1:37:40] transient client that is looking to find
a place here you have residents
[1:37:45] » uh that need an address
>> is there any other uses that I should be
[1:37:50] thinking about when doing that is there
any other tall buildings besides hotels
[1:37:54] and apartments
>> really
[1:37:55] » going to get built in Clemson the only
tall buildings we're going to get built
[1:37:58] in Clemson are student hous
>> hotels and apartments yeah we're not
[1:38:02] going to get
office building, but even an office
[1:38:04] building, would you ever need a sign at
the top of it?
[1:38:06] » Any any residential building should not
have a
[1:38:10] » Okay.
>> I mean, if it's a hospital
[1:38:12] » we'll have hotels be exempt from it, but
then everything else just take it out.
[1:38:15] » Yeah.
>> I mean, I seemed reasonable to me.
[1:38:20] » I mean, really, they're starting to get
really garish. I mean, in my opinion,
[1:38:24] » are we talking signs at all or
illuminated signs?
[1:38:28] » Up on top.
>> Well, that's what I mean, but like
[1:38:29] illuminated or any sign. I don't see if
there's It doesn't do any purpose if
[1:38:34] it's not illuminated,
>> right?
[1:38:35] » Yeah. They're not going to even do it if
it's
[1:38:40] » okay. I just wanted I mean that's pretty
easy ordinance changed. Doesn't affect
[1:38:43] it much.
>> Yeah.
[1:38:44] » If someone else buys it and they change
the name of it and then you see the
[1:38:47] ghost of the old, you know, it's
>> becomes another apartment complex.
[1:38:52] » I don't even have the ghost down. I
mean, if you if we ended up getting
[1:38:56] corporate office buildings along 123,
maybe you could have a sign up there,
[1:39:01] but I would not say on any res.
>> Well, here's the other thing is that so
[1:39:05] right now,
well, there's there's some exceptions to
[1:39:09] that, but
>> and I still think I mean, if you go to
[1:39:11] the research triangle,
you're not going to see any of that
[1:39:14] stuff.
>> No. Okay. No, it's pretty easy. I mean,
[1:39:18] I can I could do it by AR districts,
too, if you wanted. Like, you know,
[1:39:22] College AB, obviously, just take it
right out of that.
[1:39:25] » Yeah. I just don't think we need it
anywhere.
[1:39:28] » Okay.
>> Hotels would be an exception.
[1:39:31] » Okay. Cuz I was wondering about the
light effect from being up so high
[1:39:38] » and um you know, you wanted to be seen
by people who are all the way down here.
[1:39:42] You know, it's it' be brighter for
somebody.
[1:39:46] » Yeah. Hey, Jacob. Is the one that's on
the side of Bixie, is that one lit up?
[1:39:51] » It is.
>> It is.
[1:39:52] » It's an interesting color. I can't
figure it out.
[1:39:54] » Yeah, it is. I mean, that's the thing.
We've done a bunch of these, so I This
[1:39:59] is the first time I've heard color. I
can't.
[1:40:01] » That's why I know. Okay. I mean, you
center is the one that kind of shoots
[1:40:05] out at me for some reason.
>> Hy one doesn't bother me at all.
[1:40:08] » Halo illuminate, right?
>> I don't know why. The youth center ones
[1:40:11] only what bugs me.
>> But it's just the accumulation of them
[1:40:14] because we're going to have all down
College Avenue and
[1:40:17] » the sevenstory one that's going wants to
go in that's going to want to have one.
[1:40:22] » Yeah.
>> And I mean I just think
[1:40:24] » Yeah. Maybe we uh cut that out now.
>> Sounds great.
[1:40:32] » The plans are in there.
>> It adds up.
[1:40:35] » Yeah. But I don't think the PD has been
finalized.
[1:40:37] » No, no, PD hasn't been finalized.
Neither signage signage because it
[1:40:41] doesn't actually all it says is that you
guys have to approve signage and it
[1:40:45] doesn't have any
>> it doesn't put it at this one says
[1:40:49] specifically these are the guidelines
you go by right now that PD just says
[1:40:53] whatever you guys want
>> is that what 700 750 beds somewhere
[1:40:58] around there.
>> Yeah, right around there. Yeah, 740.
[1:41:01] Yeah. So, have we done a count on how
many beds
[1:41:05] uh we are going to have downtown in
student housing? Tool.
[1:41:10] » Yeah, we have the numbers on that.
>> What is that?
[1:41:11] » And it's more than
>> is it more than what was like
[1:41:17] » anticipated as needing?
>> I'm just trying to figure out the
[1:41:19] proportion of residents. We're still
>> Oh.