[5:33] Okay, let's go ahead and get started. This is the tax road correction board. Thursday, August the 27th. Call the meeting to order, roll call please. Here, here, here, here, we have a quorum. Okay. Notice that the meeting was properly posted on August 25th. Item number one is discussion possible action to approve the minutes from the regular meeting held on July 27th.

[6:03] by the 30th,

[6:07] motion and second.

[6:09] Roll call please.

[6:11] Grissom.

[6:11] Yes.

[6:12] Thompson.

[6:13] Yes.

[6:13] Corp.

[6:14] Yes.

[6:14] Mission carries.

[6:16] Okay.

[6:16] Next up is public comment.

[6:18] No one signed up.

[6:19] Okay.

[6:21] Item number two is discussion possible action regarding the notice of schedule of our regular

[6:27] meetings of the Cleveland County tax roll correction.

[6:32] That'll be held during the 27 calendar year.

[6:35] Okay,

[6:39] now second that motion and a second, Rokall.

[6:42] Chris Tomson.

[6:45] Yes.

[6:46] Mission carried.

[6:47] Item number three, discussion possible action regarding complaint, erroneous assessment,

[6:55] amputation for correction.

[6:59] Okay.

[6:59] I'd like to, the petition submitted, I would like to strike two petitions from the agenda.

[7:08] that would be petition number 4 0 0 3 2 and 4 0 0 3 3 I'd like to those were

[7:18] submitted in air from my office I'd like to make a motion to strike those from

[7:24] today's meeting. With a motion to strike I'll make a motion to strike 4 0 0 3 2 and

[7:34] was 0, 0, 3, 3, 3.

[7:36] OK.

[7:37] Got a motion.

[7:38] Roco.

[7:40] Christmas.

[7:41] Yes.

[7:41] Thompson.

[7:42] Yes.

[7:43] War.

[7:43] Yes.

[7:44] Mission carried.

[7:46] OK.

[7:47] OK.

[7:47] Following the other petitions from petition 4, 0, 0, 3, 1,

[7:56] skipping 3, 2, and 3, 3, then going forward

[7:58] to the rest of the petitions all the way

[8:01] to 4, 0, 0, 5, 0.

[8:03] So, I'd like to make a motion to pass

[8:10] those as submitted, to prove those as submitted.

[8:14] Can you do?

[8:15] Is there anybody here who's talking about that we have no one sign up?

[8:20] Is there a little bit of a story behind the more urban, urban, urban, urban, urban, urban?

[8:26] Yeah, they buy, by the time they buy lots in this one area, it's an addition in Norman,

[8:33] or in more where it hadn't developed and the city,

[8:38] more urban renewals trying to kind of take all the lots back to review something with it.

[8:43] And a lot of time when they buy it, they don't come forward and let us,

[8:47] we don't know or et cetera, so they end up getting taxed, but they actually shouldn't be taxed.

[8:52] So basically, these corrections are removing their back taxes they have that they shouldn't have.

[8:59] So so

[9:01] petition 4 0 0 3 1 and then beginning at 4 0 0 3 4 3 and including 4 0 0 5

[9:11] I'll second that I have motion a second broke off

[9:15] Grisa. Yes, Thompson. Yes more. Yes, I should carry

[9:22] Okay,

[9:25] new business unfinished business. Do we have any new business? We have an end to report. Okay

[9:31] Okay, unfinished business, item number four, discussion possible action regarding the following complaint of the Ronious Assessment and order correction that was postponed during the meeting held June the 30th, item number one, that is item 39, 9, 9, 9, 5, dash, 33, 222.

[9:54] and these

[9:58] are all of this...

[10:03] I think that we ought to take those separately. Okay. That's what you recommend, wasn't it? Yeah, it's a separate case. There's different discussion on any of the.

[10:18] So, Doug, which which one is item number one,

[10:26] the Greenland?

[10:27] I get one last thing, 222, 222, 232.

[10:33] Okay, that's this one.

[10:34] So that's number 19.

[10:40] 399-Mod.

[10:45] 399-Mod.

[10:47] 396-Mod.

[10:56] So, number two is 323.

[11:00] Okay.

[11:04] Okay,

[11:38] so item number one,

[11:47] That is the pink law.

[11:50] Doug, is that?

[11:52] Is that law only service the noun for parking?

[11:58] That one's pretty much blocked off our system, the noun parking.

[12:02] That's what it states.

[12:04] Does anybody else use that for parking?

[12:06] Does the church ever use that?

[12:08] Not to my knowledge on that law.

[12:09] No, but it's kind of fenced off separate than the others, okay, but yeah, to get it to that log

[12:19] You have to come in through the now. Yeah, there's a passage what he comes through here and then it comes out so

[12:27] Right, so you know when there's a church

[12:31] If a person wanted to they there's no there's no blockade. There's no gate. There's no nothing keeping that so they could come

[12:39] down this drive in the parking. So what's your name? I'll call the second. Is she going to talk on this?

[12:55] Did you have any comments today at all?

[12:57] As to item number one, yes, I do, and my comments really are addressed to each item as a whole rather than one at a time, so I'm sure you're taking them one at a time.

[13:17] Excuse me. Can I get your name full name?

[13:19] Thank you

[13:31] so we're on item number one now

[13:38] If you look at page two of the handout I just gave you

[13:43] That's a copy of the assessor's map that was distributed last month during your meeting

[13:50] I simply recopy it. I believe item number one addresses area and pink. Correct. It is a

[14:01] part of property the church leases to the noun hotel. Now the county looks at

[14:11] these as separate parcels. The church, of course, does not. The only place we've

[14:16] seen the the division into these separate parcels is through the assessors

[14:21] notifications so there is one lease between the mountain hotel and the church

[14:29] and the pink area on your map is a part of that lease it is used for parking

[14:37] and if you look at the third page of the handout I just gave you it references that

[14:44] that as one of the three areas covered by that lease.

[14:49] That law is primarily used by the noun.

[14:53] There are provisions in our lease

[14:55] that when we need the parking for a particular...

[15:01] We can make arrangements with them for use of it, but I acknowledge that it is primarily used by the NAMP.

[15:12] So you have to access that, because there's metal ballards down there on the, that would be the east end of that parking. You have to go through that.

[15:31] like the entry way to the noun. Is that correct?

[15:35] Yes, except that those posts that you're referring to are removable.

[15:40] It's not the only way but that's the way most commonly accessed is through the nouns driveway.

[15:47] So how much can you tell me how much that the church has used that since you leased it to the noun?

[15:58] No, I don't know the, I think you're asking me for a number of days or a number of events and I don't have that information, I'm sorry.

[16:05] So if the President Chair and Chair said, okay, we, this is, we own all this parking and we let somebody else use it occasionally, but we want that.

[16:13] We own, yes.

[16:14] We have not stolen it.

[16:15] Yeah, and we're, and we want to, the church, for whatever reason wants to park there, then you would let the Namno and they would remove those ballads.

[16:23] They're removable and then that would be open easy passage for any from the same entry way that we enter the big blue area

[16:31] So talk about layer

[16:33] Yes, and

[16:36] I've provided

[16:37] In the third page of the handout I've provided information about what we've

[16:43] Received in terms of

[16:45] Income from the noun and what we've taken at all taxes

[16:50] I did not break the first two down

[16:53] by individual number although the tax statements are a part of this handout, so you could see the specifics of each person in terms of the assessed value in the taxes paid.

[17:11] But again, the lease is one lease that covers everything the noun, the lease.

[17:17] Yeah, so they're probably separate because you probably purchase those at different times.

[17:24] Well, I did a little bit of research and you couldn't really identify one of their separate,

[17:28] but you may be right, it occurred many years ago apparently and so, you know,

[17:34] the history is a little murky there.

[17:35] Yeah, so I think that's why they've been taking in different parcels.

[17:39] Am I right?

[17:40] Yeah, sometimes people buy things at different times, sometimes it might go from one side

[17:46] of division to another, sometimes they're platted,

[17:49] like locked locks, sometimes they're unplatted.

[17:52] So as they're acquired and less the owner,

[17:53] those properties come forward and tries to combine them,

[17:56] we just have an individual account.

[17:58] Sometimes you can't combine them

[18:01] because at the time they buy a new parcel,

[18:03] they have a mortgage on it,

[18:05] it can't be attached to an existing property.

[18:07] There's a lot of different reasons,

[18:08] but the main thing is ownership of the property,

[18:11] which we agree the church owns them

[18:14] and how they're split up, probably not affected what we're looking at today.

[18:21] Okay, so I think we should take them one at a time.

[18:25] Because I do think this from my own, like one opinion, one vote here,

[18:29] I do think how they're divided does make a difference.

[18:32] Because I think my viewpoints on this are that if it's available to the,

[18:39] and I realize this is one of a number of different situations that may or may not be similar,

[18:45] but I think if it's available for the people of the church, when they need it or want it,

[18:51] then I think that that's going to draw my, like, okay, well, if it's owned by the church and the

[18:56] church can have access to whatever they want it, then I view that as being that that's church property.

[19:02] However, on this particular drawing, this parcel in green 33199, the really isn't access

[19:13] there aren't parking spaces there, and a portion of that is actually inside the courtyard

[19:20] of the name.

[19:22] And I realize that I may be jumping again, Mr. Chairman, a little bit, but my vote is...

[19:29] That's item number four.

[19:30] Yeah, so that's that's the parcel 3-3-1-9-9 and and if if you know like I said there's a courtyard

[19:41] Most of the rest of it is transportation access for these other parcels including the noun's own parcel there just to the south and so

[19:52] If the chair will allow I would like to make a motion that we take parcel 3

[20:00] Number three, one, nine, nine, and remove it from the exemption. Number four. Number four. Can we take these one through four? We can vote on them separately, but I'm going to make a motion. That would say that particular parcel, three, three, one, nine, nine, would go on the tax rolls, but the rest of the parcels would not go on the taxes. And we can do that motion. However,

[20:29] we see fit.

[20:31] I can't remember our promotions.

[20:33] Or we can, however chair prefers to do that.

[20:38] Yeah, you got anything that you want to add?

[20:42] As to partial three, three, one, nine, nine,

[20:45] the green area, which is toxic, I know,

[20:48] it's really difficult for a church member

[20:49] to park in that patio.

[20:52] I would point out to this board that when this property

[20:57] was initially assessed in 25. We did not receive the initial notices so we were not aware

[21:03] until the tax bill came. And the tax bills came for three properties not full. The fourth one did

[21:11] not come until March of 26 and it is the green parcel. It is perhaps the most obvious to you, Mr. Thompson,

[21:23] of what should be taxed.

[21:26] I would call your attention to the tax statement.

[21:29] It's in the packet that account number is up

[21:32] and upper left form, and I've attached the envelope,

[21:36] which shows that we didn't get mail until March.

[21:41] So it's puzzling to us that somehow it

[21:48] wasn't considered taxable until March of this year.

[21:54] long after the initial notices would have gone out, which we did not receive, and long after

[22:02] the tax bills went. When we paid in December half of the taxes were paid on three properties,

[22:09] not this one. And then in March, we were confronted with this fourth bill for taxes. It has been

[22:16] It was paid in March, but there's no understanding or explanation to the church as to why it was added and why it was added when it was.

[22:33] So that's a piece of the mystery on this project.

[22:37] So your saying there's been a continuing dialogue between you and your colleagues at the church and the assessor's office.

[22:42] This isn't a conversation that's been going on.

[22:44] I met with Mr. War in February after we had been denied our petition for informal review

[22:54] by the assessor and the request to have the Aprilization Board review, both of those

[23:00] have been denied as well as the Nile of our initial payments in December under protest,

[23:07] they denied the protest.

[23:08] So, in February, and this is not an area of the law I had ever dealt with.

[23:15] Sure.

[23:16] So, I went to George's office and said, you know, this is kind of crazy.

[23:21] What can we do here?

[23:24] And he told me about your board.

[23:26] It was kind enough to share the arms with me that bring petitions before your board.

[23:31] And at that time, we had discussions about three pieces of property,

[23:36] the three that we had been assessed and that we paid half of that up to that one.

[23:44] Never in that discussion was there a court team's discussed.

[23:49] So yes, I've had three discussions on that occasion with Mr. Warp, but not ongoing discussions

[23:58] after that.

[23:59] Doug, do you want anything to make it?

[24:02] Yeah, I don't agree with that statement.

[24:05] but we send out notices each year,

[24:07] and by law we send them to the last known address

[24:10] that we know of that person that owns that property.

[24:14] So yeah, we have sent notices when you did come to my office,

[24:17] I explained that to you and told you missed out to protest.

[24:21] You have a certain time fine by law

[24:22] when you can protest a value each year.

[24:25] You missed that for 25,

[24:27] and I told you about this avenue

[24:28] that you can go for this board

[24:30] where the board agrees with you're not.

[24:32] It's after this three-member board.

[24:33] so I don't agree with that, but probably the owner was notified.

[24:38] Does it abide by mail?

[24:40] Yes, my regular mail.

[24:42] Certified mail?

[24:43] No, regular mail.

[24:44] By statute, it then requires them to certify things like that.

[24:49] So it was mailed from your office, but you don't have any knowledge or way to know that it was received or that it got through certain times?

[24:56] Yes, if it comes back, we try to...

[25:09] We have a lot of people here, but just individuals say they never received it, etc., and that's been tried and courted and stuff like that. So, I do have a few other statements. One income doesn't have anything about this. It doesn't matter if the church or anybody else makes income off of it. That's nothing to do with that.

[25:30] with it. It's basically based on use, the church signed leases with the nouns. They've changed

[25:36] it from exempt to a commercial use. And that's why we put it on this taxable. So I still

[25:42] think all four parts of the arson should be taxable.

[25:49] It's pretty simple for us. House of

[25:51] being used. They've got signs of things of QR codes. You park there, you got to pay. It's

[25:58] pretty simple.

[26:01] Okay, should have you get anything that you want to add about partial number

[26:07] one, the paints. Jews, 99% by the noun, you know, the 400 billet out says is it is exclusively

[26:17] for religious purpose now that if they only had the hotel park there once, once or twice,

[26:25] Well, you know, we wouldn't change it, but I'm like on a discretionary use, but here they've got a

[26:32] Sign lease agreement on all four of these

[26:35] Not only I'm going to get to the blue and the bigger ones. It's not only used by the

[26:39] It's got some you could have some now parking there, but a lot of it's designated the students are parking there right now

[26:47] So since since we're looking at all these together. I'd rather take these one at a time. The orange

[26:55] area. Is that all in the access area you can drive in? There's a little booth where I went by the other day.

[27:05] The booth was a language yesterday. It's got somebody in the booth.

[27:09] The orange ones right there that has signs that say those are designated for now and parking specifically signs there.

[27:16] But you go into that gate and you go into the blue area and there's some of the packets we've handed out last time.

[27:22] You can't park there unless you pay. I think the church may

[27:27] Use it maybe on Sunday or something. I'm not sure about that, but

[27:32] Basically, that's if we go there right now probably most of its fullest to the park

[27:37] And if you don't pay you get a ticket are

[27:41] The parking for two and three

[27:48] and that yellow area too. Is that all one track on the yellow part? Chris, you know, on

[27:57] the yellow part? Is that part of the blue?

[28:01] The yellow is part of the blue because of the yellow area. It just don't happen that yellow.

[28:20] Yeah, so what about the orange?

[28:32] I'm pretty sure that's true now.

[28:41] So how about item number three?

[28:46] How much do you think the church uses that property?

[28:50] That

[28:53] orange section is entered through the same driveway that the blue is.

[29:01] Right.

[29:02] There's no separation of those two areas within the church parking lot.

[29:07] They are separate upon your assessor parcel numbers.

[29:11] There's a different piece of the coin.

[29:14] And so when you enter, the signage says that that orange strip,

[29:20] It's one row of parking is for the noun, and it is covered by the noun's lease between the church and the noun hotel, but it is

[29:30] It is available for use by the church, again, in working with the noun when we need it and there is no

[29:44] There's no barrier. There's no separate way to entrance. This is simply identified by signs. Yeah

[29:50] I would call your attention to the case law.

[30:01] Mr. Orr's office had pointed out last month the committee watch case, this is on the back page of the handout for me this morning.

[30:13] As Mr. Orr has said, the use of the property, not the income is the appropriate standard by which these matters are reviewed. And so, the question then becomes.

[30:32] Okay, how do we establish use exclusively for religious purposes?

[30:39] And in reviewing not only in Queen City Lodge case, but many other cases,

[30:46] these issues have come before the public court on buildings and structures,

[30:52] which is different than a parking lot.

[30:55] In that, if you rent a space in a building,

[30:59] you're not keys to it, you have the exclusive use of it.

[31:03] Nobody else can come use it.

[31:05] When you rent a space in a parking lot,

[31:07] you rent it for a matter of a few hours,

[31:10] or maybe it won't out.

[31:11] And when you're done with it, can you drive away?

[31:15] You don't have any other use of that space,

[31:17] unless you come back and rent it again.

[31:22] So we can't really equate parking lots

[31:25] with rental spaces and buildings

[31:27] because of the nature of the temporary use of a parking lot.

[31:33] I couldn't find any cases that deal with parking lots.

[31:37] So I went looking for what else would help us in this situation.

[31:46] And if we look at the Emanuel Baptist Church versus glass case,

[31:54] that's a Oklahoma case from 1972.

[31:59] And the court said, and I quoted in the handout, the exemption authorized by the Constitution,

[32:06] this is the tax exemption, is not restricted to property used exclusively for public

[32:11] worship, but embraces all property exclusively that is primarily used for religious purposes.

[32:19] And went on to say, to say that the exclusive use should be related to the time it is used

[32:27] rather than the purpose is to distort the plain meaning of our Constitution and I

[32:35] got this example was helpful. A sanctuary of a church is used clearly for

[32:40] religious purposes but it's only used a few hours a week. Most of the time it

[32:47] sits empty and yet we all acknowledge that those properties are exempt from

[32:54] taxation. The parking lot is necessary for the church to use the church property. We can't

[33:05] attend if we don't fill up the park. And so it is incidentally necessary to the use of the

[33:12] buildings that the church owns. Now in the analysis as I understand it of the assessor, they look

[33:24] down if each of these spaces were rented out, that would give the public a huge number

[33:36] of spaces in this blue lot, which you'll get to in a minute I guess, but they're looking

[33:41] at the income that would be generated.

[33:43] I think this case talks about each used as being incidental to the uses and purposes of

[33:50] a religious organization and so I want the board to be aware that this is this is

[34:00] not something that we have a case that says here tell you do it. We have to

[34:06] interpret it from other cases that don't deal with the same facts and Queen

[34:12] Cedulage as well as other cases acknowledges that these decisions are fact

[34:16] specific. And so we're kind of struggling here with how to apply the law to these particular facts.

[34:26] I would also point out to you that this is probably going to come up repeatedly because

[34:32] Mr. Ford's office did a memo for you all last month that identified a number of properties that

[34:38] are owned by churches and I think there even one or two other newer ones that

[34:47] work on his list. There's a lot of part of a building in that area of town

[34:53] and I would point out that

[35:00] As you look at each of these parcels and make your decision, I think the information in the

[35:07] manual at this church case is illustrative of how you address, okay, this parking lot much

[35:17] of the time is empty. And we can't assume that, okay, that's a commercial purpose, because

[35:25] while the public does have a right to park there if they pay, church members

[35:30] have an even greater right to park there because it belongs to the church.

[35:35] It has been used for eons by the church and so we can't assess it as

[35:41] commercial if we're using it by the church.

[35:48] Mr. Chairman, may I make a couple of comments just about the case that

[35:52] Ms. Meadows cited to make no laugh to church versus class.

[35:56] She did provide me a copy of that,

[35:58] and I've reviewed that the quotes and the citations

[36:01] that Ms. Meadows cited, I agree with,

[36:04] those are from the case.

[36:05] I just want to bring to the board's attention

[36:06] that the property that was that issue this case,

[36:11] I believe the sanctuary was used as an example

[36:13] as you correctly pointed out,

[36:14] but this case was about whether or not a person

[36:17] should be taxed, and so I believe

[36:20] I believe that the assessor's office was trying to tax a

[36:25] personage where the minister resided a full-time

[36:29] service compensation for the church, and so the court did

[36:33] hold that the personage should be found exempt.

[36:38] So I just wanted the board to be aware that the primary issue

[36:43] on that particular case was a personage.

[36:46] And there is another section kind of towards the end of

[36:49] that case where it just it states that we are convinced that the proper interpretation

[36:54] of the words used exclusively in our constitutional provision is the use to which the property

[36:59] is dedicated and devoted. And so in that case they found that a personage was dedicated

[37:05] and devoted to religious purposes. So I just wanted to point out that language to the board

[37:10] and let you all know that the primary, I don't disagree with the comments that was made

[37:15] I just want you know the primary property being looked at that case was a

[37:19] personage. Okay. Okay.

[37:23] The question, so if if this if this they were to come, so let's say that the

[37:28] nouns then whatever they're doing, the President's Church says this is the

[37:34] funeral, the wedding, whatever that circumstances. And under this lease

[37:38] agreement, if you church members went to the noun and said okay well this is a

[37:43] the big event and we're going to need all this parking. Does the noun have the

[37:46] authority to decline or deny you that request?

[37:51] We've never run into that situation because we've had a very

[37:55] formal relationship with them.

[38:01] Because my understanding from the, and I'm trying to really think about this a lot.

[38:05] And, and that, because I do know that this is like the thread in your sweater,

[38:09] if you pull that one thread, your sweater can come unraveled.

[38:13] And so-

[38:14] You have to have a whole bunch of these items actually.

[38:16] Exactly. And so I, my mental test,

[38:19] and I'm not a lawyer, I'll say that out loud to begin with,

[38:22] is that, is that I'm aware, just having these conversations,

[38:27] that there are churches that allow weddings in their church.

[38:31] And sometimes the church will say, well,

[38:33] if you want to have your wedding here,

[38:35] well then we'd like to have this kind of a donation

[38:37] to the church or whatever. There's some financial changing of money that happens in some of

[38:43] those instances of around our community. And so the fact that somebody's having a wedding

[38:47] in a church, they may or may not be a member there, that doesn't really matter. We as the

[38:53] society of community, we don't move back and say, oh well, you know, you're having these events

[38:57] in your church and you may be profiting from that. The money goes into the church's treasury,

[39:03] which is tax exempt under, you know, state tax codes.

[39:07] And so if that is available to those people

[39:11] that are members of that church,

[39:13] on they have the desire,

[39:15] and all the leases I've seen all have that in there,

[39:17] that if the grant or the less or has a need of a reason,

[39:22] then they can exercise that right.

[39:24] Like you said, hardly ever happens, but it can.

[39:27] So to the extent, or I'm gonna land on this,

[39:30] is that if this property is available

[39:32] to the members of the Presbyterian Church whenever they want to choose to want to take the

[39:37] ballers out, they can have that lot. But that particular parcel that's inside the courtyard,

[39:43] well that's not free to use by members of the Presbyterian Church. So I think if we look at

[39:48] church parking lots that are being rented for football game day parking or these lots that have a

[39:56] QR code on a poll and I realize there's been somebody going around town going a week

[40:00] You can make you some money off your parking lot. Well, in my opinion, it doesn't change the nature of that parking lot away from its religious purchase purpose. It might add some texture to that relationship, but it's still those churches still own the property, not selling it. There may be granting some rights that they're keeping their rights for it to be used for the purposes of the church. So my vote will be that if it's available to the members of the church, it might be otherwise used from time to time.

[40:29] time that might be otherwise held in some sort of agreement but if the church has access

[40:34] to it when they want it and I don't think in my opinion I will vote no I don't think

[40:39] it should be taxable but if the property is put in a place where the church members can't

[40:44] have access to it or they lend, lend, lease, arrange for another parking that is somehow

[40:53] you mentioned an apartment so let's say there's an apartment next to a church and the apartment

[40:58] rents that property from the church but they put a fence on it and no parishioners can park

[41:04] there on Sunday or Wednesday night or whenever that is then I'd see a difference there but if

[41:09] those properties are available to the people of the church when they choose to use it then I'm

[41:15] going to vote that it should not be on the tax shows and that goes for Saturday, game day,

[41:19] if revenues all those kinds of things but if just for out loud if the church says we're going to

[41:26] rent or lease that and we're going to fence it off and the people who are

[41:29] members or come to your church can't use it then I think that will be

[41:32] different. Okay okay so and I don't necessarily completely agree with

[41:39] chat but I respect your opinions. I want to do articulate that because I know

[41:43] there's some places where we will disagree but I wanted to make sure that my

[41:47] opinion was hopefully spoken enough that if we go down this road further you'll

[41:52] over in my local state. I do. I say as we talk a time before when check was there on a lot of

[41:59] these it's not ownership we've talked about and you brought it before. I own the building I own

[42:05] the parking lot and I'm leasing it to church even though I'm you know I'm there for personal

[42:11] game for me then it would be exempt. It's based on how it's been in the applications apply for

[42:18] extension say is supposed to be exclusively used for this. It's not how long anybody's

[42:24] been there. We went out, two days ago, looked at a shopping center that it leases to a church

[42:31] and part of that shopping center's exit because of that. And we had some vacant land in the

[42:37] back that was used by a charitable nonprofit that we had it exemplified was used for that

[42:41] That chair went on profit, they're going vegetables and new stuff for kids and it was included,

[42:47] well now they've moved off of all that, so we made it back taxable.

[42:51] So these do fluctuate with the users, my opinion, the majority of the use is not by the

[42:59] chair.

[42:59] And I do think that church is, you know, take their assets and use them to create additional

[43:06] revenue for the church.

[43:07] and so if I own the parking lot I say and I and somebody will rent my parking lot and I can make

[43:14] an incidental money we're talking about and that money doesn't go into my for-profit pocket it

[43:20] goes into my mission of a church pocket and that's kind of where I'm looking at this it's like where

[43:24] does the money then go? Well it goes into the church's coffers and they're using it for religious purposes

[43:30] yeah and then you know incidental discretion on some of these that will come in but when you're

[43:37] sign in the lease and they're signing it everywhere.

[43:39] I still believe it should be taxed here.

[43:41] Okay, so back to item number one.

[43:48] Item number one is the pink area.

[43:50] I would make a motion that we approve the assessment on number one.

[43:57] And number one is this, this, yeah, pink.

[44:01] And you're saying approve it.

[44:03] You're saying approve the taxual correction

[44:06] where it's going to be exempt or you're trying to make a motion that it's taxable because it

[44:12] looks to me like you could exclusively be in use by the taxable correction in this instance

[44:18] is to request this board to taxable correction is to take it from taxable to non-taxable.

[44:27] So for number one, I think if you're trying to state that you're trying to make a motion that it

[44:34] this taxable, then we'd want to deny the corrects.

[44:37] Okay.

[44:38] So I'll make a motion to deny number one.

[44:42] And I'm going to, I'm going to, the, no against your motion.

[44:46] And the reason is because that can be made available.

[44:49] So it's not, the ballers can be removed.

[44:51] Anyone who wants to drive down the street

[44:53] and go part back there, that's even the church can do so.

[44:56] But I'm, I'm going to second it.

[44:58] and then what

[45:00] We have a second. Then I think we haven't been in discussion. Okay. So I'm going to second rest. These motion to the nine of our motion and second. You have anything else you want to add? No, I just want to point out that that is available to the members of the church. And, you know, it's got the ballerjub. If we knew how much the church used it, that might change my opinion of it. So we've got a motion and a second on the item number one.

[45:29] one, Rokall.

[45:31] Chrisam?

[45:32] Yes.

[45:33] Thompson?

[45:33] No.

[45:35] War?

[45:35] Yes.

[45:36] Motion carried.

[45:38] Okay.

[45:39] Item number two is the blue law.

[45:44] It

[45:51] gets three, three, two, one.

[45:58] That's been corrected.

[45:59] Three, three, two, one.

[46:03] So, item number two is the blue law.

[46:06] Yes, sir.

[46:06] Okay.

[46:16] So

[46:19] three three two one is the blue parcel and it's number two on the agenda, which includes the yellow and the

[46:28] exclusive parking in the yellow and then the mid first parking in the red.

[46:37] Well, I make a commission that we exempt that property. I'm not sure whether it's for against but that we exempt that parcel

[46:46] 33201 number two on our agenda from that one. Okay. I'll second that

[46:54] Don't you have anything you want to add to that one? I already we all know my opinions. We've already discussed it all right

[47:00] Roco, please

[47:02] Yes.

[47:04] Yes.

[47:04] Thompson.

[47:05] Yes.

[47:05] More.

[47:06] No.

[47:07] Okay.

[47:10] I am number three.

[47:12] I've come got a little heartburn for that because I see that parking lot is usually in the

[47:18] mornings.

[47:19] It's usually full.

[47:20] Looks me like they're now parking.

[47:22] But it is a separate entrance and it's not blocked off to the public.

[47:27] So I would make a motion to approve number three.

[47:31] to be tax exempt. Yes, that would be denied. To deny. Motion to deny.

[47:39] Okay, I'm sorry. I'm

[47:40] confused. Can we clarify that motion? So the results of the motion would be that it is not on

[47:49] the tax rules. Right. So you have to tell us do you want to be yes or no or no? I think if you're

[47:57] that you want it to be tax-exempt and I think the motion would be to grant the

[48:03] taxual correction. Okay that's the motion. No grant then. I think that's the

[48:08] backwards. If you the tax roll right now all four properties are taxable. So the

[48:13] taxual correction was put forward to make them exempt by the church. They're

[48:19] requesting they become exempt. So to deny the taxual correction is to make

[48:24] to make them taxable.

[48:28] Right.

[48:29] And I thought that Board Member Grissom said he wanted it to be exempt.

[48:34] Exempt?

[48:34] Yes.

[48:34] So I think it would be to grant the taxual correction to make it exempt.

[48:39] Yes.

[48:40] Okay.

[48:40] That's okay.

[48:41] Okay.

[48:41] So we're going to get confused about this.

[48:43] I just want to read real quick.

[48:44] So the reason I'm voting to grant the exemption on that is because it's really part of that

[48:51] blue parking lot.

[48:52] even though there are signs up there for the noun parking.

[48:56] It's been used exclusive zone for the noun parking because there are signs that restricted.

[49:03] Okay.

[49:03] So we'll get a motion in a second.

[49:05] Uh, Rokal.

[49:07] I'm sure I'd like to have clarity on the motion.

[49:09] I would too.

[49:09] I don't know.

[49:10] I'm sorry.

[49:11] What?

[49:11] Two.

[49:13] Are you wanting to?

[49:14] Are you standing up for me?

[49:16] I don't know.

[49:17] My second chance.

[49:18] It's too emotional that I believe is to exhibit that problem.

[49:20] Yeah.

[49:20] Okay. For the same for the exact same reasons that those those those spaces all over that parking lot are completely available to the members of the Presbyter Church whenever they want.

[49:34] Okay. Roco.

[49:36] Grisa?

[49:37] Yes.

[49:38] Thompson?

[49:39] Yes.

[49:40] War?

[49:40] No.

[49:41] Motion carried.

[49:42] Okay.

[49:44] Next up is item 4, the green area that's got the, I think we're all in the

[49:50] on this one?

[49:52] I make a motion that that be taxed that whether that's a motion in favor against I'll let you figure that out but

[50:00] Okay, and I'll second that,

[50:07] roll call. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Motion carry. Okay. Board member statements.

[50:18] I have no. I don't have anything. I just want to say that I know this. I know this pot's cooking about all these church parking lots, and I think that we need to really carefully think about incidental uses. I know that this.

[50:33] There's a, seems like a program where, you know, some companies sticks a poll in the parking lot and says,

[50:40] here's my QR code and the churches then view that as found income.

[50:45] And so I do think that this is a dialogue that the assessor's office needs to carefully consider.

[50:52] And I do think that whenever there are differences in method or differences in programming, you know,

[51:02] that the leadership of the first press change church

[51:05] in Oman, Oklahoma are some of the most well-known

[51:08] and iconic individuals.

[51:10] Formerly, Miller is on that board.

[51:12] So I don't, I think it's inappropriate

[51:15] that we as a county would say, we mailed them a letter.

[51:19] And did they get it or not?

[51:20] Well, that's on our problem.

[51:21] We mailed them a letter because we have a telephone,

[51:24] we have feet.

[51:25] If we're going to make these kinds of sea changes

[51:27] with tax will not taxable for local churches,

[51:31] I do think it's appropriate for our county to have an outreach of some sort a reasonable outreach of some sort

[51:37] I don't think it's appropriate to mail that or and just say well, we mailed it if they didn't get it

[51:42] That's too bad. I do not think that's an appropriate

[51:45] voter-friendly approach

[51:47] There's manners. Thank you for coming

[51:51] Mr. Chairman if I may I don't want to believe her point. I just want to make sure the record is super clear

[51:57] From the motions that were made in my notes

[51:59] I am showing that item one and four were voted to be taxable, which is the pink and the green and an item two and three, which is the orange and the blue were voted to be exempt.

[52:11] That's correct.

[52:12] Okay, I just want to make sure everybody's clear in that we got that.

[52:16] Thank you.

[52:17] Okay.

[52:19] Motion to adjourn.

[52:21] Motion to second.

[52:22] I'm done.

[52:23] I'll second that.

[52:24] Thompson. Yes. Yes. Thank you. I have something for y'all to sign. You don't need to sign this one here.

[52:34] Yes sir. And then also this is the new schedule for the next year.

[52:39] Here's the last one.

[52:41] Okay.

[52:45] Here you go.

Tax Roll Correction Board on 2026-08-27 9:30 AM

Transcript