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How you doing?
>> I'm good.

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» Danny Danny called me that one day this
week or I guess

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maybe Friday or Saturday, I don't know.
And he just showed up and I called him

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back.
And I called his voice and I'm like

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Who is this? He said Danny. So I thought
it was Danny and so he got so much going

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on. He was calling me about a car to
pick up.

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» [laughter]
>> And I think what was he calling you

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about?
>> A car somebody was selling a right-hand

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drive mail truck.
I don't know. I was like

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I thought it was Danny.
>> [laughter]

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» Oh yeah, he'll be trying to call him at
work. He'll call me.

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» Yeah, I was really thinking it was
Danny.

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» [clears throat]
>> Is that your Pepsi?

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» Yeah.
>> Is it really?

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» Yeah, I'm thinking it was Yeah, cuz
she's not going to be here. So I figured

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I better get some extra space.

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I went to the eye doctor today. I had my
eyes done. I can't I can see y'all and I

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can't see y'all now.
>> That's probably a good thing.

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» I need
you ready?

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I already you ready?

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» Thank you for being here tonight. We'll
call this meeting to order.

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We do have a quorum present and we will
start with invocation by council member

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Natalie Cox.
>> Good evening everyone.

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Dear Lord, we thank you for this day. We
thank you for the sunshine. We also

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thank you for the rain, Lord. We thank
you for all those that turned out today

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that have a concern about the city,
Lord. I ask that you Um, that we make

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the right decision
and what's pleasing to this town, Lord.

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And I ask that you be with our children,
our school teachers as everybody starts

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back to school to tomorrow. In your name
we pray. Amen.

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» Amen.
>> [clears throat]

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» I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
United States of America

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and to the republic for which it stands,
one nation under God, indivisible, with

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liberty and justice for all.

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» Okay.

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Now is our time for public comment. I
know we got a lot of people here that

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may not come to council meetings all the
time, so I just want to make sure that

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everybody knows exactly how how these
things go.

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Um, you know, city council meetings are
basically purpose is for council to

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discuss and act on issues in a public
setting. So we're this meeting is for us

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to be talking with each other. Um, we do
offer we're not required to offer time

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for public comment, but we do cuz it's a
courtesy to our citizens.

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Um, our ordinance allows for a total of
20 minutes, but we going to let

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everybody speak that signed up.
Um,

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most cities or a lot of cities allow
only citizens who live inside the city

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limits to speak, but we going to let
everybody talk.

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Um, everybody's got 2 minutes to make
comments.

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It's um, it's not a question and answer
time, so be organized and be ready.

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Please state your name clearly and when
you begin. Miss Lewis, right there, wave

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your hand. Miss Lewis will have a timer
that will sound at the 2-minute mark.

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Um,
when when your 2 minutes are up, please

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respect the citizens coming after you
and on their time and stop when the

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alarm sounds. If you have notes that you
want to

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have attached to anything, you can leave
those with Ms. Lewis. So, Ms. Lewis, we

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will ask you to call our citizens and we
will

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continue on.
>> Ms. Jeanie Browning.

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» Good evening.
>> Good evening.

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» Uh
pleasure to see you again.

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Um I am simply giving you a report about
what I said last time.

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Uh I was talking about the planning
stages of some events in Clinton

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and uh we had our annual third annual
Art Clinton 2026 Festival.

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Uh that entailed 119 works of art,
42 artists from 12 cities

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on display in 17 Clinton businesses.
We gave away $2,000 in cash awards given

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to 13 exhibiting artists.
We had 28 painters in the outdoor art

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battles consisting of 11 adults and 17
children on the square.

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And we also had five sales of artworks
during the festival.

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So, artists and visitors came to our
city from Laurens, Greenwood, Whitmire,

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Mount Holly, Honea Path, Lake Greenwood,
Donalds, Union, Rock Hill, Spartanburg,

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and Anderson.
Uh

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I want to invite you
to our next event. You have this in your

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papers already passed out.
Uh you have the information for the

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gallery on one side. On the reverse,
there's an invitation.

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Uh Uh you're invited to
the Clinton Art Gallery's next themed

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exhibit for the month of August. It is
Let's Face It. It's a portrait exhibit

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of faces,
and over 20 artists have already

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submitted work, and I have more coming
this week.

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We have both traditional artwork,
realistic, and also abstract and

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whimsical.
The reception is August the 11th

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at 6:30 p.m. at 113 North Broad Street,
and you're all invited.

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Uh thank you, Mr. Smith, for attending
our last reception for Art Clinton. Your

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presence was noted and appreciated.
I appreciate your support, and uh

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hope to see you soon. Thank you.
>> Thank you.

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» Miss Sarah Whitman.

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» Hello.
Um my name is Sarah Whitman, and I'm

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going to be discussing uh Cambridge
Farms development. So, I live at 23

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Cambridge Road, which is the first house
uh right on the corner when entering the

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Mary Oaks neighborhood. Um and there is
no doubt that this um developmental plan

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will bring much more additional traffic,
noise, and safety concerns to Highway

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56, which will directly affect my house
and my family. The SCDOT had previously

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reviewed a traffic study and required
right turn lanes at both proposed

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entrances, and that an additional right
of way may be needed.

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If this development is passed, how does
the city of Clinton plan to take the

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SCDOT findings into consideration? Who
will be funding the necessary

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improvements?
On May 8th, 2025, the Laurens County

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senior planner wrote that two accesses
for over 500 homes would be a traffic

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nightmare inside and outside of the
project.

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The plan before the city today has the
same two access points, but now includes

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a commercial parcel, which would bring
even more cars to the area. If traffic

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and entrances were an issue then, the
problem will only increase with this new

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proposal. Has the city completed a new
traffic study to include how a

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commercial parcel will affect traffic?
Motorists already go well beyond the

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speed limit on Highway 56. Are there
plans to reduce the speed limit coming

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into this stretch of highway from both
directions?

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Or to add speed patrols to help ensure
the safety of the families who already

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live and drive this stretch of road
daily?

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Residents deserve to have these
questions answered before any new zoning

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is approved. The city deserves smart and
responsible growth, and unfortunately, I

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do not believe Cambridge Cambridge Farms
fits the bill, which is why I

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respectfully ask you to put safety first
and vote no today. Thank you.

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» Thank you.
>> Mr. Ed Gooch.

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» My name is Ed Gooch, [clears throat]
and I come to talk to you in the name of

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uh safety.
I could make this really short and say

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what she said.
But uh

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I want you council members
to consider

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driving down Broad Street from the north
to the south.

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And coming to that place at the uh
southern end Broad Street where the road

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diverges,
and you've got Highway 72 on the right,

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and you've got Highway 56 on the left.
And then I want you to uh continue

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imagining, if you will, going down 56.
Nice four-lane,

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well-developed, speed limit is uh 35, I
believe.

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And then you come down to the National
Healthcare. I think you all know where

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that is.
And the road narrows, four lanes become

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two lanes.
Not only that, the speed limit rises

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from 35 to 45.
Now, I live in the neighborhood across

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uh the road from 56 on the eastern side
of 56, across from the area where

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development is being proposed.
So, um I um get to see a lot of the

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folks that drive on 56. I get to deal
with them. Some of them don't know what

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uh 45 really means. I I think they read
it a little bit higher than that.

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I only ask you, please, to consider the
impact of

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um a development on the traffic that
Highway 56 will bear

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uh if the development occurs. And I ask
you to consider that in your

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deliberations. Thank you for listening
to me.

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00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:45,960
» Thank you.
>> Mr. Corey Cannon.

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» [clears throat]

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» Council, good evening. My name is Corey
Cannon. My wife, Sue, and I reside at

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207 Mixon Drive, about 30 seconds from
the proposed subdivision.

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I arrive before you tonight to discuss
uh

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the negative issues
that will be caused by this subdivision.

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The proposed zoning has five zoning
categories.

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An agricultural district, three
residential districts,

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and then a commercial district.
If you think we need more commercial

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00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:33,920
district, please walk down
the streets in

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Clinton.
We've got ample

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space
for commercial development there.

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Trafficability.
Yes, I believe that the plan supports

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turn lanes in the Cambridge Farms
uh southbound, but northbound don't

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believe there's any plan uh to widen the
road, provide for passing lanes

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northbound.

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Density.
We have over 2,000 approved building

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sites in the city of Clinton.

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Do we really need any more?
Emergency services.

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If this subdivision materializes,
we will need to add fire and police

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protection.
Stormwater management.

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Bush River is inundated with flooding
now.

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When the subdivision is built and the
property is denuded,

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the runoff will be significant. Yes, it
can be designed for 100-year flood,

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but that doesn't mean there won't be a
500-year flood back-to-back.

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I prefer that the property remain timber
land and undisturbed, but that's not

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within my purview.
I just don't support this annexation

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00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:11,160
as it stands.
You must make an informed decision, and

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00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:11,160
I'm sure you will.

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Just think about this.
If this subdivision was proposed in your

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neighborhood,
would you be in favor of the annexation?

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00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:31,920
I surely hope not. And in conclusion,
I would request tonight, strongly

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00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:36,120
request recommend that you table this
action for the following reasons.

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00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:41,040
Would you table till you have all the
facts?

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00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:47,640
Secondly, until all council members can
be present

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and cast their vote.
Added to litigation has been completed

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between Lawrence County and the
developer.

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Thank you so much for your time. I do
appreciate the process. Might not agree

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00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:02,994
with what's going on, but I appreciate
the process. Thank you.

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00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:08,560
» Thank you.
>> [clears throat and cough]

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00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:08,560
» Miss Betsy Washam.

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00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:18,800
Hello, I'm Betsy Washam. I live on
Nottingham Nottingham Road.

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00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:24,640
And I address you tonight as elected
governmental gatekeepers of Clinton.

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00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:28,280
Your job is to guard what comes into
Clinton and protect the community from

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harm.
I quote from one of you sitting board

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00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:38,560
members from a recent publication.
"We're seeing new housing developments

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00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:44,080
and some industrial expansion, but it's
important that we grow in a way that

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enhances employment opportunities and
quality of life for all citizens. Simply

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00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:55,600
adding businesses or residences isn't
enough. We need to make decisions today

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that will set Clinton up for success,
not just the next few years, but for

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future generations." End quote.
My question is, will Cambridge Farm

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00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:14,600
enhance quality of life or simply add
residencies? Will Cambridge Farm

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generate a or will it bring a
generational

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00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:25,640
type of living or temporary stay?
I have been surveying our community and

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00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:31,360
talking personally to residents.
I have met, for example, five households

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00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:35,680
who have moved here in the last year to
get away from the situation this

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00:15:33,680 --> 00:15:40,320
developer is trying to impose on
Clinton. They came here because the

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00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:46,120
Clinton community is not like
Greenville, Charleston, Beaufort, and

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00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:51,760
other cities that have unfettered
residential expansion. These people all

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00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:58,200
seem to be solid folks who want to put
down roots, stay in Clinton, and enhance

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00:15:54,680 --> 00:16:03,280
it. None of them live in houses or on
small lots like this developer wants you

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00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:08,520
to agree to.
Are we setting Clinton up for success?

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00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:13,280
That's the question tonight. Consider
carefully

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00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:17,160
the impact, your legacy.
It will be

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00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:22,760
This decision will impact at least a
generation out whom each of you may long

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00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:27,880
be gone from.
So, I thank you for your time, and I ask

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00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:32,640
that you also consider
taking the

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00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:38,800
information and your experience from
other housing projects that have gone on

200
00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:42,160
in Clinton and applying that to this.
Thank you.

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00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:42,160
» Thank you, ma'am.

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00:16:42,161 --> 00:16:47,560
» [clears throat]
>> Mr. Tommy Pinson.

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00:16:55,320 --> 00:17:02,240
» Thank you. My name is Tommy Pinson. I
live out in Mayeaux.

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00:16:59,839 --> 00:17:07,800
We have been My family's been here for
46 years now, moved up from Georgia.

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00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:12,800
When we came into town,
there was no housing available,

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00:17:10,079 --> 00:17:16,959
but plenty of industry.
Right around now,

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00:17:14,839 --> 00:17:20,640
we We very little industry.
Our streets are empty almost with

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00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:24,079
empty
uh buildings.

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00:17:22,199 --> 00:17:30,760
But we got plenty of houses. Any
neighborhood you want to go into

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00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:35,240
is empty and has housing available.
I ask you to take a good hard look at

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00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:40,600
what we need
in the city of Clinton and in here in

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00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:45,600
Lowndes County as far as
what is really good for the people here

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00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:50,280
in town.
The idea of putting

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00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:54,320
450 houses
into a neighborhood when there's already

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00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:58,400
plenty available
just does not seem what we need at this

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00:17:56,760 --> 00:18:03,800
time.
The last time I was here, we were

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00:17:59,920 --> 00:18:10,600
talking about if we made everything R1.
Now all of a sudden we're talking about

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00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:15,520
R1, R2, R3, and commercial.
Sooner or later we have to make a

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00:18:12,120 --> 00:18:20,440
decision. What is really needed
for the city? Is it more housing

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or is it something else where we can
provide more for our residents?

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Thank you.
>> Thank you, sir.

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» Mr. Michael Corley.

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00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:44,360
» Good evening. My name is Michael Corley.
I'm a Clinton native, uh but also the

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00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:48,120
deputy director of the South Carolina
Environmental Law Project, which is an

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organization that among other things
works statewide to ensure the lawful

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00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:55,360
functioning of land use decisions.
The question I'll pose to you all

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00:18:53,360 --> 00:18:58,480
tonight is what does this project mean
for the relationship between the city

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00:18:57,240 --> 00:19:02,280
and the county?
And I ask that because, of course, this

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00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:05,720
is not the first time we've been
presented with this project. It's been

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00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:08,400
before you previously. So, what
happened?

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00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:13,280
Well, what happened is the developer
made the conscious decision to stop

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00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:18,760
pursuing camp city approval a city
process in favor of pursuing county

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00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:23,120
approval and a county process. That was
his choice. Developer chose the county

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00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:27,800
approval process.
And that gamble did not pay off.

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00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:30,400
Um this subdivision was unanimously
denied by Lawrence County Planning

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00:19:29,360 --> 00:19:35,160
Commission. Do you believe that?
Unanimously denied. Uh in my line of

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00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:37,640
work, I wish I saw that more often. Um
do you know how many projects are

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00:19:36,120 --> 00:19:40,080
proceeding in the county right now?
They're everywhere. All of those

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00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:43,800
proceeding with no problem. This one
unanimously denied.

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00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:47,840
So what did the developer then do in
response to that denial?

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00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:52,080
What he did was sue the county. Sue the
county because he didn't agree with the

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00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:56,680
decision. And by doing that, chose to
continue the county process. Chose to

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00:19:54,360 --> 00:20:01,320
continue pursuing the county approval by
his own choice by filing this lawsuit.

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00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:05,840
That lawsuit, the one that he chose to
file, is still pending. Whatever lawyer

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00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:10,080
talk you may hear tonight, whatever kind
of obfuscation you may try to hear of

246
00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:14,160
the basic facts, look up the docket
number in the court of appeals. His case

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00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:18,800
that he chose to file about the county
process is still pending. Which means

248
00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:23,000
that the county process he chose to
pursue is ongoing.

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00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:27,040
So in light of those things,
I have to wonder what are we doing here

250
00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:30,800
in the room tonight? Is the city really
willing to step in

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00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:35,000
and save this developer from the choices
he made to pursue the county process at

252
00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:38,080
the cost of treading all over the
county's authority?

253
00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:41,080
There's already an answer to that
question though, and you have to look no

254
00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:44,440
further than the comprehensive plan that
you all just issued. Just went out to

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00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:47,920
the public. Hasn't even had a chance to
be effective yet. And that comprehensive

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00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:51,560
plan is supposed to guide the future
Clinton, which I am very excited about.

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00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:54,720
But if it's going to guide the future
Clinton, we can't ignore it before it

258
00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:59,240
even has a chance to take action, which
is what is called for tonight. Because

259
00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:04,520
what that comprehensive plan says
specifically in relation to annexation,

260
00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:07,600
okay? Quote, "Coordination with Lawrence
County will be critical in managing

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00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:10,400
growth along the city's fringe.
Coordination with Lawrence County along

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00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:13,880
the fringe.
It also says

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00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:18,280
the comprehensive plan urges a
collaborative approach to development.

264
00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:21,680
Collaborative approach. It It urges a It
says that county coordination is

265
00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:25,280
essential. Does the action requested of
you today reflect, quote, coordination

266
00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:29,520
with the county? Does the action
requested of you today reflect a

267
00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:32,760
collaborative approach with the county?
Clearly it doesn't because if you

268
00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:37,040
advance the annexation, you're
invalidating the county process, the

269
00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:40,080
county approval, that the developer
himself chose to pursue.

270
00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:42,560
» Thank you, Mr. Corley.
>> Respect the county, respect the comp

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00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:45,920
plan, defer to section.
>> Thank you.

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00:21:44,774 --> 00:21:49,280
» [clears throat]
>> Ms. Teresa Corley.

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00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:04,040
» I'm not as smart as the last Corley,
I'll wait to tell you.

274
00:22:02,460 --> 00:22:07,400
» [laughter]
>> I live in the neighborhood across

275
00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:12,080
Highway 56 from the proposed
development. I'm very opposed to the

276
00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:16,560
development. I realize that Clinton
needs to grow, but realistically, is

277
00:22:14,120 --> 00:22:20,320
this the right way to go?
I've been to every meeting concerning

278
00:22:18,360 --> 00:22:24,560
the proposed development.
At every meeting, we've heard about

279
00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:29,760
their traffic study and how few cars
come down Highway 56 in a day.

280
00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:34,800
I do not know who or when this study was
done. I've lived there 42-plus years and

281
00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:38,760
I have never seen a traffic study being
conducted. I've also talked to some

282
00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:42,400
neighbors and nobody else has seen one
happen, either.

283
00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:45,800
Today, I decided to do my own traffic
study.

284
00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:55,640
I sat in a parking lot on Highway 56 for
1 hour, sweating it up, from 12:16 to

285
00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:58,360
1:15 p.m. 444 cars and 37 18-wheelers, a
lot of them were from Georgia, passed

286
00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:02,280
by.
I have a tally sheet right here that

287
00:22:59,920 --> 00:23:07,120
I'll gladly share with you.
That is a far cry from the count that

288
00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:12,600
they have given you. I could tell you
that I am thin, young, and beautiful,

289
00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:12,600
but we all know it ain't so.

290
00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:17,786
Do a traffic study yourself. Don't do it
in the middle of the night like they

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00:23:16,360 --> 00:23:20,280
must have done.
>> [clears throat]

292
00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:24,520
» We want and need growth, but please be
considerate of the lifelong residents of

293
00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:29,480
this community. I want Clinton to be a
place that I tell people I'm from and

294
00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:32,840
say it with pride. I always have.
Please do what you know is right.

295
00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:35,280
Thank you.
>> Thank you.

296
00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:40,360
» Mr. Nick Nichols.

297
00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:51,920
» I want to
give you all a copy of the 2019

298
00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:54,080
» Just give that to give that to Miss Miss
Lewis and we'll she'll pass it out to

299
00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:57,320
us.
>> There we go.

300
00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:59,480
There's plenty of them.
Oh.

301
00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:08,240
Which I think is still in effect.
Um

302
00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:14,760
It states in there on wetlands on page
uh 21 and 22

303
00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:14,760
that uh

304
00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:24,000
before any activity takes place on
proper property, either the maps or

305
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:27,960
personnel from the Corps of Engineers
should be consulted.

306
00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:30,960
Because of the position of the city
along ridges between two drainage

307
00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:37,120
basins,
the only area with flood potential are

308
00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:37,120
along Bush River and Shell Creek.

309
00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:43,880
Controlling this development
is

310
00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:49,360
the potential dangerous areas would
benefit the citizens of Clinton.

311
00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:54,120
I think yesterday we had a little over 2
in of rain.

312
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:56,692
And the citizens of Clinton
felt

313
00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:59,840
development
>> [clears throat]

314
00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:03,600
» with Shell Creek Manor.
I think uh

315
00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:07,000
Calvert Avenue got flooded a little bit
yesterday.

316
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:10,880
Well, I know it did. We
we were out riding after the storm.

317
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:14,720
So,
and there's no rooftops down there yet.

318
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:24,480
But, when there's rooftops down there,
and you put 500 plus rooftops

319
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:30,240
on Bush River,
and Shell Creek dumps into Bush River,

320
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:35,320
then
it's going to be a problem. So,

321
00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:38,840
before you vote
yes,

322
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:41,400
please have this study. Call these
folks.

323
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:46,600
And get it done.
Thank you.

324
00:25:44,120 --> 00:25:46,600
» Thank you.

325
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:52,000
» Miss Charlotte Strickland.

326
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:05,160
» I'm Charlotte Strickland. I'm a native
Clintonian, and after much research done

327
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:09,000
by many citizens, I'd like to share some
alarming inaccuracies that developer

328
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:12,040
Patrick McNair made at the Planning
Commission meeting last month.

329
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:16,360
He walked the commission through a
Lexington neighborhood he presented as

330
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:19,880
his own work. A partner and I built this
neighborhood, and this is what we did

331
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:23,000
citing it as the model for Cambridge
Commons.

332
00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:26,720
Pin location on Long Ridge Drive is a
Stanley Martin Homes community in

333
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:31,040
Lexington,
which Veranda has no affiliation with.

334
00:26:29,360 --> 00:26:34,920
According to the Stanley Martin Homes
website, they're the developers for

335
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:38,840
Longview subdivision, which Patrick
McNair claims is his own.

336
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:42,880
Patrick and his partner once worked for
Stanley Martin Homes before starting

337
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:47,960
Veranda. According to the Veranda
website, Veranda Homes was founded in

338
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:52,320
2024, and this is confirmed by the South
Carolina Patent Office.

339
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:56,880
Veranda's own website history page makes
no claim of founding in 1993 as he

340
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:59,800
stated at the last meeting. They
describe partnering with local

341
00:26:58,360 --> 00:27:02,760
developers.
I suspect that this is what we might get

342
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:06,240
here.
As of 2 years ago, they were operating

343
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:10,440
in the red and when he was questioned
about that, he skirted around the issue

344
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:13,920
saying that all companies are in the red
their first year.

345
00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:18,560
But he had previously said they've been
in operation since 1993.

346
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:22,920
He went on and on about this being his
development. Longview that he claimed

347
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:28,040
this this project was begun in 2015 by
Essex Home and was purchased by Stanley

348
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:32,720
Martin Homes in 2020. Patrick Minyard
and his partner once worked for Essex

349
00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:36,480
Homes. There's no mention
of Patrick in Longview's recorded chain

350
00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:39,720
of title.
I've heard a planning commission member

351
00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:42,760
and a and a council member say that
people in these surrounding

352
00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:47,040
neighborhoods on 56 don't live in the
city limits and they don't matter.

353
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:50,240
I don't mean any disrespect to anybody,
but I want to remind y'all there's not

354
00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:53,880
one
department head that works for this city

355
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:58,320
that lives in the city limits.
That's including our city manager.

356
00:27:56,000 --> 00:28:01,960
Many of them live out of town
or even out of the county.

357
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:05,760
That's who's running our city.
Of course these citizens matter. These

358
00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:09,840
are Clintonians, too. They're our
friends, neighbors, and co-workers. Many

359
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:12,480
have lived in this area for 50 or 60
years.

360
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:16,800
They go to church here, they send their
kids to school here, they shop here.

361
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:20,160
They aren't commuters who will be living
in this development. They will not be

362
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:24,480
leaving Clinton
to go to work and then come back home.

363
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:28,560
The Marriott residents buy their power
and water from the city and pay 1 and

364
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:31,760
1/2 times the water that we pay. Our
comprehensive plan states that

365
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:35,320
neighborhoods should always reflect
established development patterns within

366
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:38,280
the city.
States that you are to prevent

367
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:41,520
overcrowding and avoid undue
concentration of population and

368
00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:45,200
congestion.
This project goes against everything in

369
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:49,760
the comprehensive [clears throat] plan.
I urge you to vote no, prevent

370
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:53,400
annexation, and against this Veranda
project. Thank you.

371
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:53,400
» Thank you.

372
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:58,800
» Ms. Nancy Garrison.

373
00:29:00,355 --> 00:29:02,375
» [clears throat]

374
00:29:04,940 --> 00:29:06,960
[snorts]

375
00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:16,960
» Good evening. My name is Nancy Garrison
and I'm here because of experienced

376
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:21,840
first hand what can happen when storm
water is not adequately managed during

377
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:25,480
the construction of a large development.
Several years ago a subdivision started

378
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:30,440
the process of being built beside my
property. Once the land was cleared and

379
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:35,560
the vegetation removed, it didn't take
major storm. It was modest rainfall, and

380
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:39,880
sometimes only an inch or two, to send
muddy storm water sediment onto our

381
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:44,320
property. South Carolina DHEC, now the
Department of Environmental Services,

382
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:48,800
cited that project twice for sediment
entering the waters of the state.

383
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:53,960
My family ultimately filed a lawsuit and
we prevailed, but I can assure you that

384
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:58,120
no lawsuit ever makes up for months of
damage to your property.

385
00:29:55,960 --> 00:30:02,720
Prevention is far better than trying to
repair the damage afterward. The reason

386
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:07,080
I share that experience is because the
same engineering firm that designed that

387
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:11,800
project is involved in the proposed
Kinsley development. I am not here to

388
00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:16,280
say history will repeat itself, but I'm
here to say that my experience gives me

389
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:21,360
every reason to ask this council to
carefully examine the storm water design

390
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:25,400
and downstream impacts before moving
forward.

391
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:30,000
We also know storm water is becoming a
growing regional concern. The state of

392
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:33,560
South Carolina has recognized that rapid
development population growth have

393
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:37,080
increased storm water runoff to the
point of existing culverts in the

394
00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:41,960
northern part of Laurens County are
being overwhelmed, requiring major

395
00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:45,320
public investment to replace them. They
should remind us that growth has

396
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:49,640
consequences when our infrastructure
can't keep up with the pace. This

397
00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:54,160
project drains toward Shell Creek and
ultimately Bush River. Those waterways

398
00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:58,720
deserve every protection we can give
them. I respectfully ask you to ensure

399
00:30:56,720 --> 00:31:03,200
that storm water design, erosion and
sediment controls, downstream impact

400
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:07,080
analysis, and all environmental reviews
are complete before approving

401
00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:12,320
annexation. My experience has taught me
one lesson. Once the damage is done, it

402
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:16,596
is too late to wish more questions had
been asked beforehand. Thank you.

403
00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:19,680
» Thank you.
>> [cough and clears throat]

404
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:22,320
» Claire Young?
>> Claire Young?

405
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:30,080
» Hey there. Um my name's Claire Young. I
live on Young Road. I just relocated

406
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:35,280
back here from Charleston, South
Carolina. And um I don't think too much

407
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:38,800
explanation needs to be told as to why I
relocated back here from Charleston

408
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:43,960
because
they have

409
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:47,000
this problem a hundredfold. Um I just,
you know, we I could echo everything

410
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:52,720
that everybody else has said about
traffic, about storm water, about where

411
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:55,840
are all these children? 500 new homes,
what are they going to go to Clinton

412
00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:59,080
High School? Are we going to increase
the amount of teachers we have?

413
00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:02,560
I just want everybody to think about the
quality of life. Um

414
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:06,840
I think our
quality of life in Clinton has been

415
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:12,800
wonderful. My family's owned a farm here
since 1779.

416
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:18,800
And I would really love for my family in
the future to enjoy the same

417
00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:24,280
rural life and beauty of this city that
I have enjoyed growing up and and so

418
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:28,400
glad and proud to return to. So, I just
want you to consider the quality of life

419
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:33,080
for everybody and I appreciate you. I
would encourage you to vote no on the

420
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:35,600
Cambridge as well. Thank you.
>> Thank you.

421
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:39,800
» Woody Robinson

422
00:32:41,092 --> 00:32:46,800
» [clears throat]
>> Hello. I am Woody Robinson. I live in

423
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:52,000
Mary Oaks and my husband Shep is
speaking after me. Um

424
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:56,000
before Shep discusses some financial
projections, he wanted me to share a few

425
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:59,640
things about Veranda.
During the past few weeks, Shep has

426
00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:04,120
personally visited all of Veranda's
current projects in Greenville,

427
00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:07,280
Columbia, Fountain Inn, and Grey Hawk
market areas.

428
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:12,760
The Veranda projects are typically
small, 20 to 50 units/houses,

429
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:17,280
and do not compare at all to what would
be required at Cambridge Farms.

430
00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:20,560
Veranda has squeezed in as many
houses/townhouses

431
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:24,000
as they can in their existing
developments.

432
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:29,480
Most of Veranda's developments are
infill developments and are not large

433
00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:34,440
residential suburban neighborhoods.
Foxbank in Grey Court is a large

434
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:38,400
residential development. It's important
to note that Veranda is purchasing

435
00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:44,680
roughly 30
of the finished lots with plans to build

436
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:50,320
houses on the lots. Veranda did not work
on the horizontal lot development.

437
00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:54,960
At these projects, Veranda has not done
any extensive horizontal development

438
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:58,280
similar to what would be required at
Cambridge Farms.

439
00:33:56,560 --> 00:34:03,360
Nothing indicates that they have the
expertise to successfully manage this

440
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:07,080
type of project, which includes 490 home
sites,

441
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:13,000
seven retention ponds, wetlands
mitigation, and roughly 2 miles of road

442
00:34:09,399 --> 00:34:17,520
construction over hilly, rocky terrain.
Carl Haslinger, the CEO of Veranda,

443
00:34:15,639 --> 00:34:23,040
seems to be the principal who may have
more experience with horizontal land

444
00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:26,800
development versus any Veranda employee.
Given the fact that Cambridge Farms is

445
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:32,200
significantly larger than any other
Veranda project, and that it would

446
00:34:28,879 --> 00:34:35,760
require substantial capital to fund, we
would have expected Karl to be actively

447
00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:41,360
involved.
However, Hassinger has not participated

448
00:34:38,879 --> 00:34:46,360
in any of the other planning commission,
city council, or county council public

449
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:51,600
meetings. Where is Karl?
How involved will he be in this project?

450
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:55,520
Who Everanda has the expertise to
execute a major project like Cambridge

451
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:59,640
Farms?
Thank you to each one of you for your

452
00:34:57,240 --> 00:35:05,280
service. I respectfully ask for your
vote no tonight. I know the city needs

453
00:35:02,720 --> 00:35:10,200
the impact fees, but as Shep will show
next, this project will not produce the

454
00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:14,600
fees it promises. Please consider
shifting the focus to bringing

455
00:35:11,720 --> 00:35:19,360
businesses and industries to Clanton to
offer jobs to our current residents and

456
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:23,280
those coming to the 22 homes already
committed. Thank you.

457
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:23,280
» Thank you.

458
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:27,880
» Shep Robinson.

459
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:37,840
» Uh
thank you, Woody.

460
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:41,800
It has been mentioned frequently during
this process that the math does not add

461
00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:45,360
up.
In recent weeks, I've analyzed the math

462
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:50,320
based on the available public
information and on reasonable

463
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:55,080
supportable assumptions. I generated two
profit loss scenarios.

464
00:35:52,880 --> 00:36:00,869
My assumptions include the following.
Land development costs of $42 million

465
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:03,360
or $86,000 a lot.
>> [clears throat]

466
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:06,765
» These costs are based on the developers
stated infrastructure costs at the plan

467
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:09,840
planning commission
>> [clears throat]

468
00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:15,200
» uh meeting of $30 million plus $2.5
million in estimated land acquisition

469
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:20,800
cost, a $3 million contingency, $6
million in interest carry, and $500,000

470
00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:25,720
for various fees.
The home building costs are based on

471
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:31,120
published data containing the average
building costs per square foot for a

472
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:37,000
standard mid-range home located in South
Carolina in 2026.

473
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:40,920
Scenario number one uses the developers
estimated selling prices as stated at

474
00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:47,240
the PC meeting,
which were 300,000 for the R3 homes, 350

475
00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:51,040
for the R2 homes, and 450 for the R1
homes.

476
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:54,600
Scenario two uses selling prices based
on sales comp and market market data in

477
00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:59,080
Clinton.
There are no sales comps in Clinton

478
00:36:56,440 --> 00:37:05,800
which support the developers estimates.
The prices used in this scenario are 245

479
00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:10,920
for the R3 homes, 260,000 for the R2,
and 350 for the R1.

480
00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:15,560
The results of this analysis are
staggering. Under scenario number one,

481
00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:21,720
which uses the these developers
estimated selling costs, the projected

482
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:26,400
loss is 37.9 million dollars.
Under scenario two, which uses the more

483
00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:32,960
conservative selling prices, the
projected loss is 75.4 million dollars.

484
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:37,560
Obviously, the math really does not add
up. This project does not make economic

485
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:41,760
sense.
Under both of these scenarios, the city

486
00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:45,920
of Clinton would suffer financially, and
the Clinton community would likely be

487
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:51,320
forced to look at a failed, uncompleted
project for many years.

488
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:55,960
I've left copies of my analysis right
here for everybody. If anybody wants a

489
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:59,360
copy of my Excel spreadsheet, let me
know.

490
00:37:57,200 --> 00:38:02,200
Thank you all for your service,
and respectfully ask you to vote no

491
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:05,560
tonight.
>> Thank you.

492
00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:05,560
» Thank you.

493
00:38:05,976 --> 00:38:09,280
» [clears throat]
>> Ashley Martin.

494
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:23,960
» Hello, my name is Ashley Martin, and I
live at 106 Shell Creek Court. I also

495
00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:27,520
own the building at 107 East Main Street
of Clinton.

496
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:32,800
Um first I'd like to talk about this
project in the sense of it's bounced

497
00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:37,160
back and forth from the city to the
county. And like Ms. Poorly, I've been

498
00:38:34,720 --> 00:38:44,520
at almost every meeting.
What you said last year when you denied

499
00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:48,880
this project was that it had to be R1
only. That is not the project being

500
00:38:46,720 --> 00:38:54,120
presented today.
The neighborhood around this, including

501
00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:58,120
the neighborhood that I live in, has
large lots and I know everyone doesn't

502
00:38:56,280 --> 00:39:04,760
want a large lot.
And it has traditionally built homes.

503
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:08,560
They are spread out. That is not what
this community that they plan to build

504
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:14,840
is.
500 homes in one spot is not great.

505
00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:19,800
That's plopping another small town on
the outskirts of ours.

506
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:26,640
Recently, I've heard multiple people
say, "We need affordable housing."

507
00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:33,240
And exactly what Shep just said,
our median income household income in

508
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:33,240
Clinton is $44,522.

509
00:39:35,240 --> 00:39:44,480
Who will be purchasing that as an
affordable home if that is what we need?

510
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:49,600
Recently, I listened to Jeff Siegler and
sat in a Zoom meeting. He is the Revive

511
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:56,240
Live or Die person.
I want to read what he recently posted.

512
00:39:53,480 --> 00:40:00,080
He said, "We know what people want, so
why don't they get it?

513
00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:05,520
Three reasons.
One, I think it's the nail on the head.

514
00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:11,400
Low standards.
Communities say yes to bad projects

515
00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:16,040
because they're afraid nothing better
will come along.

516
00:40:13,240 --> 00:40:19,880
So, they keep accepting less
and that's why things keep getting

517
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:26,600
worse.
Two, no actions. Plans and studies are

518
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:31,880
worthless without swift implementation.
Just as Michael Corley said, with our

519
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:36,840
new plan.
No vision.

520
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:42,840
Cities aren't outcome oriented.
They're process driven. Every department

521
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:48,840
does the its own thing
with no overarching vision of what the

522
00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:53,120
place should actually become.
Fix these three things and the rest will

523
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:56,240
fall in place.
Thank you.

524
00:40:53,720 --> 00:40:56,240
» Thank you.

525
00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:59,440
» Brenda Stewart.

526
00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:11,000
Thank you. I'm a member um
a 35-year resident of Mary Oaks and I

527
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:13,800
know many of you. Appreciate your
service.

528
00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:18,800
The developer keeps telling you and
everyone else that the lots need R1

529
00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:24,000
size. Size was never the issue with
this. R1 requires 70 ft of frontage.

530
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:31,120
He's asking for RS2 and RS3 so he can
build on 50. What 50 lots gets him

531
00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:36,800
is a lot smaller lot, um but not similar
to the ones in the surrounding property.

532
00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:41,280
Going from 70 ft to 50 puts about 29%
more houses on every foot of road and

533
00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:44,520
pipe he has to build. His cost goes
down. Nothing gets better for the

534
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:49,040
neighborhood.
In 2015 your own planning commission

535
00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:56,040
said no and please come back to us with
R1. Now he's back with R1, RS2, RS3,

536
00:41:54,000 --> 00:42:00,000
commercial, and ag.
That's not the same.

537
00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:03,360
Also, through a FOIA request, I have
reviewed the planning commission

538
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:07,200
training records. Three of of seven
members have no proof of the 6-hour

539
00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:10,840
requirement
and orientation training required by

540
00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:15,880
state law in order to sit. No
certificate, no transcript. All three of

541
00:42:13,720 --> 00:42:20,600
their forms carry signature dates that
are not have not yet occurred. October

542
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:25,520
26th, November 26th, and one was even
signed hand signed August 11th, 2028. Go

543
00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:29,160
figure.
Three of your seven commissioners appear

544
00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:33,200
to be out of compliance with the
requirements, but they're voting on

545
00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:37,160
things as important as this.
That seems really wrong.

546
00:42:35,240 --> 00:42:41,080
At the July 14th after the [laughter]
vote was taken, oh, I'm sorry, and the

547
00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:44,880
July 14th vote was taken without an
answer to an important question.

548
00:42:43,240 --> 00:42:48,480
One of the commissioners asked that that
the applicant about a development in

549
00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:52,200
Graycourt. You heard about it recently
or earlier.

550
00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:55,560
That damaged a neighbor's property. Um,
when he was asked if that was his

551
00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:58,480
property, he said no, but that was an
error of omission because standing next

552
00:42:57,200 --> 00:43:02,160
to him was a representative from
Bluewater Civil Engineering, and they

553
00:43:00,720 --> 00:43:05,720
were on that project, and that's what
the commissioner meant. I know because I

554
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:09,320
met with him the day before.
Um, so I wrote a note and I gave it to

555
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:13,680
the city planner, and I asked him to
please let this be a point of

556
00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:18,480
clarification before the vote. I went up
again and asked him to please do that

557
00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:21,920
before the vote. Um, it was not provided
to him them until after adjournment. I

558
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:25,320
wonder why.
Um,

559
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:29,880
lastly, I am also submitting tonight to
the clerk a petition against this

560
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:33,400
development signed by nearly 500 people,
all of which are city of Clinton utility

561
00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:38,560
customers. Some of us outside the city
limits, we actually get to pay more.

562
00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:42,560
I saw my bill this week, trust me.
Um,

563
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:45,880
this is an important decision and not
one you should make lightly. There are

564
00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:49,440
loopholes all day long. They're going to
try and plug some of those tonight, but

565
00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:54,280
there are genuine answers you need to
get, and I implore you to please look at

566
00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:58,200
your own planning documents and vote no
tonight. Thank you.

567
00:43:55,720 --> 00:43:58,200
» Thank you.

568
00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:10,800
» I believe this is uh, Betsy McKay.
>> McKinney.

569
00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:10,800
» McKinney.

570
00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:20,240
» Thank you for having this hearing.
I appreciate it.

571
00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:23,640
There've been many concerns, valid
concerns expressed, and I won't

572
00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:27,920
reiterate on those.
I'm just mentioning this from a common

573
00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:31,800
sense standpoint.
The outline plan, which is all we've had

574
00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:37,400
to go on,
simply does not

575
00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:42,240
add to our neighborhoods
the right housing plan.

576
00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:47,160
There's simply too many houses planned
on too small of acreage, and that simply

577
00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:52,200
will not work.
There's nothing more sad

578
00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:57,400
than a a failed shopping center or
failed project.

579
00:44:54,480 --> 00:45:02,040
And I encourage you to consider the
validity of what's being proposed and to

580
00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:07,080
use your wisdom
to make the right decision. Thank you.

581
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:07,080
» Thank you, ma'am.

582
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:12,640
» That's all, sir.
>> Thank you.

583
00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:18,320
Thank you. That concludes all of our
folks that have signed up. I appreciate

584
00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:21,240
everybody's comments and uh
certainly your

585
00:45:21,556 --> 00:45:25,000
» [clears throat]
>> your passion and your

586
00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:29,720
thoughts and the research that's been
done.

587
00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:35,160
Okay, next on the agenda is the approval
of minutes from the July 6th,

588
00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:39,280
2026 council meeting.
And um we will

589
00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:42,480
entertain a motion to approve those
minutes, that's the will of this group.

590
00:45:41,720 --> 00:45:47,160
» So moved.
>> Have a mo- motion from Mr. Smith, second

591
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:54,120
from Mr. Kirkendall.
Um any questions or comments? Any

592
00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:54,120
corrections, additions, deletions?

593
00:45:54,240 --> 00:45:58,080
Not all in favor, please say I.
>> I.

594
00:45:56,440 --> 00:46:01,640
» All opposed, no.
And [clears throat] the minutes are

595
00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:05,480
approved. Okay, we've got two
proclamations.

596
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:11,400
Um and
one is we're going to proclaim August as

597
00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:15,240
Clinton goes back to school month in the
city of Clinton.

598
00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:19,360
And I'm very thankful for this cuz I got
three grandchildren that have been in my

599
00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:22,920
house all summer. So
I said it's a it's a wonderful day

600
00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:26,800
tomorrow.
Um

601
00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:29,840
also August as connecting cops to
communities month in the city of

602
00:46:28,680 --> 00:46:34,360
Clinton.
And um I'll entertain a motion to make

603
00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:36,360
these proclamations if that's the will
of this group.

604
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:42,160
» So moved.
>> Motion from Mr. Cook, second from Ms.

605
00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:46,280
Coxwell. Any questions or comments?
If not, all in favor please say I.

606
00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:50,680
All opposed [cough and clears throat]
no, and we are so proclaimed.

607
00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:57,640
Okay, Mr. Medders.
>> Thank you, sir. Good evening.

608
00:46:55,240 --> 00:47:02,040
Uh the next item on the agenda is for
council to consider first reading of an

609
00:47:00,240 --> 00:47:08,160
ordinance to amend the city of Clinton
zoning ordinance uh single family

610
00:47:04,640 --> 00:47:12,120
residence as permitted use in the RM8
zoning district.

611
00:47:10,240 --> 00:47:18,920
Um
Mr. Blinder discovered um

612
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:24,640
recently that we have two properties two
subdivisions Autumn Woods and Copeland

613
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:30,440
Estates that it was originally called. I
think it's known as Blossom Meadows now.

614
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:36,480
Um this is up behind the old Har-
Blossom Meadows is up behind the old

615
00:47:32,240 --> 00:47:42,360
Hardee's uh restaurant on Highway 76.
And those were

616
00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:47,960
uh permitted for family single family
homes in the RH

617
00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:55,600
um MH RMH
uh zoning and they were assumed that uh

618
00:47:52,960 --> 00:48:00,720
possibly that the single family homes
were allowed in there with mobile homes.

619
00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:02,960
That's what RMH is, the mobile home
zoning.

620
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:08,520
So,
uh Mr. Lindler has put together uh

621
00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:13,680
information to
take this RMH zoning and add the single

622
00:48:11,720 --> 00:48:18,360
family to it since that's what is
actually there now and uh

623
00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:22,600
he is here if you [snorts] have any
questions uh

624
00:48:20,080 --> 00:48:25,680
pertaining to this.
>> Okay, thank you. Let's get a motion so

625
00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:29,120
we can put it on the floor for
discussion.

626
00:48:27,120 --> 00:48:33,960
Have a motion from Ms. Walsh. Is there a
second from Mr. Kirkendall? Um okay.

627
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:37,560
Questions or comments?
>> You all feel

628
00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:41,360
» So, I'm a little confused. Now, I know
now that you

629
00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:45,160
described them when they were
there's actually mobile homes in those

630
00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:49,360
areas?
Is that what I'm hearing?

631
00:48:46,120 --> 00:48:53,280
» Right. Originally, Copeland Estates was
set up for mobile homes and that's what

632
00:48:51,720 --> 00:48:55,920
went there originally.
>> And that What was the date of that?

633
00:48:55,000 --> 00:49:01,120
» Uh
Mr. Kirkendall, that was probably back

634
00:48:58,920 --> 00:49:04,040
in 2000s
in that neighborhood.

635
00:49:03,560 --> 00:49:08,440
» Okay.
>> There's two local gentlemen started that

636
00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:11,080
up there next to Copeland Plaza.
>> So,

637
00:49:09,480 --> 00:49:14,520
So, they're in the They're in the city
limits.

638
00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:19,840
» They are in the city limits. And
they were zoned for mobile homes.

639
00:49:17,400 --> 00:49:25,120
» So, since we changed our ordinance
ordinance of no more mobile homes in the

640
00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:27,160
city and I forget when we did that.
>> That

641
00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:28,080
» These would have been grandfathered in?
>> Yes, sir.

642
00:49:27,680 --> 00:49:31,840
» Okay.
>> Yes, sir.

643
00:49:29,120 --> 00:49:36,440
And after that time, uh there were
another couple developers came in and

644
00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:40,240
wanted to build single family homes
there, which that's their single family

645
00:49:38,640 --> 00:49:43,720
homes there now.
And hence the name was changed to

646
00:49:42,040 --> 00:49:49,040
Blossom Meadows.
So, we want to clarify and correct the

647
00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:54,160
RMH
in those areas to allow single family

648
00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:59,760
homes
in the corresponds with the RMH plus the

649
00:49:57,640 --> 00:50:02,080
single-family homes in those two areas
now.

650
00:50:02,200 --> 00:50:06,760
» That doesn't open us up for any more
mobile home stands, what I'm trying to

651
00:50:05,920 --> 00:50:12,440
clarify.
>> Well, it with it being zoned that, yes,

652
00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:13,760
you can put another mobile home there.
>> Mhm.

653
00:50:12,800 --> 00:50:18,880
» But it's
the mobile homes are already in the

654
00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:24,160
area. There's not a lot left in Blossom
Meadows or Cochran Estates, but with it

655
00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:28,480
being zoned that way and having
single-family there also,

656
00:50:27,600 --> 00:50:33,080
that's
the most

657
00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:35,520
the best way to handle this situation.
>> Were you asking if that changes?

658
00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:38,640
» Yes.
>> It That It doesn't change that, does it?

659
00:50:37,280 --> 00:50:40,600
Like they're they're currently at You're
currently allowed to put mobile homes

660
00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:44,040
there.
>> and it's still zoned and you correct me

661
00:50:42,720 --> 00:50:51,040
if I'm wrong.
They are. That

662
00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:56,840
that the RMH, the mobile homes, will be
allowed also with single-family housing.

663
00:50:55,280 --> 00:50:58,840
» But But you're currently allowed to do
that under the current zoning.

664
00:50:58,200 --> 00:51:02,160
» Yes, sir.
>> Okay.

665
00:50:59,440 --> 00:51:05,040
» I'm I'm totally confused.
>> [laughter]

666
00:51:02,560 --> 00:51:09,960
» I thought our ordinance was that and I
forget when we passed this ordinance,

667
00:51:06,840 --> 00:51:14,640
but it's been during my seat on council
that we would not in the city limits

668
00:51:11,960 --> 00:51:20,600
allow another home mobile home to be put
in city Clinton city limits.

669
00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:26,200
If there were ones already in place,
that was okay, but no more additions.

670
00:51:24,080 --> 00:51:28,760
» That's not what this ordinance before
you tonight has anything really to do

671
00:51:28,320 --> 00:51:31,280
with.
>> Okay.

672
00:51:29,240 --> 00:51:38,880
» Specifically, what this ordinance is
saying is that you currently in your RMH

673
00:51:34,760 --> 00:51:44,840
zone, you allow for duplexes.
You allow for multi-family residential.

674
00:51:42,160 --> 00:51:49,000
You allow for civic buildings and you
allow for mobile and manufactured homes.

675
00:51:47,720 --> 00:51:54,200
It doesn't say anything about
residential single family.

676
00:51:51,120 --> 00:51:57,800
In the intent of the of the RMH zone, it
says it is intended to accommodate

677
00:51:55,960 --> 00:52:02,120
manufactured housing development in
concert with conventional dwellings.

678
00:52:01,080 --> 00:52:07,440
So,
your intent of the or- of the district

679
00:52:05,120 --> 00:52:11,400
is to allow for single family and
manufactured homes.

680
00:52:09,240 --> 00:52:15,680
When you go into the details of the of
the section, it doesn't allow for single

681
00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:21,800
family homes. So, this would allow for
single family homes in addition to the

682
00:52:17,680 --> 00:52:28,560
existing uses in that zone as we have
allowed apparently in the past.

683
00:52:24,680 --> 00:52:31,800
So, this is clarifying the situation.
>> So, you're saying as it's written right

684
00:52:30,040 --> 00:52:35,280
now, a single family home is not
supposed to be there.

685
00:52:32,600 --> 00:52:38,920
» We cannot permit, by ordinance, a single
family home on a property that's zoned

686
00:52:37,440 --> 00:52:40,800
RMH.
>> And that's what that's zoned as right

687
00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:43,840
now.
>> Correct. That would allow us to allow

688
00:52:43,040 --> 00:52:46,320
for a single family
>> know how many single family homes are

689
00:52:45,560 --> 00:52:49,200
there now?
>> There are a number in those two areas

690
00:52:48,320 --> 00:52:52,040
that Mr. Maddox
>> So, how did that take place? I mean,

691
00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:56,760
where are we
>> I don't know if the ordinance has been

692
00:52:53,480 --> 00:53:00,600
changed at a later time after permitting
or if those have been permitted in

693
00:52:58,120 --> 00:53:03,760
error. I don't I can't determine that.
>> So, there's probably as many single

694
00:53:01,800 --> 00:53:07,080
family homes as trailers there at this
time.

695
00:53:04,240 --> 00:53:10,640
» But if you make this change, then all of
those

696
00:53:08,720 --> 00:53:14,360
technically non-conforming single family
homes will become conforming.

697
00:53:14,400 --> 00:53:23,840
» My
question is, will they be

698
00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:26,480
R1s, R2s, R3s inside the mobile home
zone?

699
00:53:25,120 --> 00:53:30,280
What will they be?
>> They would be RMH. So, it'd be the

700
00:53:28,800 --> 00:53:33,080
standards that are allowed under the
RMH.

701
00:53:30,720 --> 00:53:38,000
» So, a single family home can be built
and designated as an RMH?

702
00:53:37,280 --> 00:53:41,040
» If we vote
>> is already designated

703
00:53:39,320 --> 00:53:46,440
» I understand that, but I'm saying future
homes. We can't do anything about the

704
00:53:43,280 --> 00:53:52,080
ones there now, but we have ordinances
on the books now and zoning. So, what if

705
00:53:50,120 --> 00:53:57,600
another single-family home is to be
built in there, what will it follow as

706
00:53:54,800 --> 00:54:01,400
far as a single-family home? Will it not
have any restrictions at all?

707
00:53:59,280 --> 00:54:05,800
» No, you already have restrictions in
there that identify your minimum lot

708
00:54:03,120 --> 00:54:08,800
sizes, your minimum lot widths,
setbacks, height of the structure, all

709
00:54:08,280 --> 00:54:14,077
that.
>> But, that's for mobile homes.

710
00:54:10,160 --> 00:54:16,480
» It's for all of all types of uses.
>> [snorts]

711
00:54:14,480 --> 00:54:20,400
» Civic uses,
um duplexes,

712
00:54:19,040 --> 00:54:25,400
all that.
>> So, are we contradicting ourselves when

713
00:54:22,160 --> 00:54:27,520
we talk about R1 and R2 and R3 and R2S
and R3S?

714
00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:33,360
» No, sir.
This is just a an additional zone that

715
00:54:29,880 --> 00:54:33,360
you have available to you.

716
00:54:33,400 --> 00:54:39,080
» But, we're building single-family
resident homes in there.

717
00:54:37,960 --> 00:54:45,240
» There have been residential
single-family homes in these two areas.

718
00:54:42,840 --> 00:54:48,280
» It says the minimum lot size is 5,000 in
that.

719
00:54:46,640 --> 00:54:50,840
» Okay.
>> Currently.

720
00:54:50,960 --> 00:54:56,600
» So, it would be and it says one housing
unit per lot permitted. And so, that has

721
00:54:54,920 --> 00:55:01,160
to follow the lot permit.
>> Correct. One per lot.

722
00:54:59,520 --> 00:55:04,680
The only thing we're adding is the
allowance for a single-family home to be

723
00:55:03,320 --> 00:55:09,360
permitted.
>> Is it Am I hearing this correctly? If If

724
00:55:06,720 --> 00:55:12,360
y'all are concerned about mobile homes,
this

725
00:55:10,360 --> 00:55:14,680
this gives each lot in there a chance to
be a home instead of a mobile home.

726
00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:18,480
» Correct.
>> And if we if we vote no on it,

727
00:55:17,000 --> 00:55:21,720
technically, they should only put mobile
homes in MH.

728
00:55:20,760 --> 00:55:23,120
» Or a duplex.
>> Or

729
00:55:22,120 --> 00:55:24,320
» Or a multi-family.
>> Right.

730
00:55:23,800 --> 00:55:26,800
» building.
>> Correct.

731
00:55:30,160 --> 00:55:34,043
» Any other questions?
>> [laughter]

732
00:55:39,228 --> 00:55:43,840
[clears throat]
>> Has everybody had a questions answered?

733
00:55:42,200 --> 00:55:45,920
» No.
>> Okay.

734
00:55:44,320 --> 00:55:47,400
» Keep going. We're okay. We're okay,
guys.

735
00:55:46,040 --> 00:55:51,600
» Well, I just I I
I clearly understand that

736
00:55:49,720 --> 00:55:57,080
sometime back
we had a ordinance for the city of

737
00:55:54,320 --> 00:56:02,960
Clinton that no more additional mobile
homes would be be allowed

738
00:56:00,520 --> 00:56:07,040
because of the danger, the fire,
everything that's associated with the

739
00:56:05,240 --> 00:56:11,480
safety.
That was That was a clear ordinance that

740
00:56:09,200 --> 00:56:16,840
we did.
>> I I'm going off memory here,

741
00:56:13,440 --> 00:56:23,280
but I want to say you said that for
different residential zones

742
00:56:19,760 --> 00:56:25,040
because there were some mobile homes in
R-1

743
00:56:24,160 --> 00:56:28,440
» There were some.
>> R-2. If you remove one, they're

744
00:56:26,800 --> 00:56:30,160
grandfathered, but if you remove it, you
could not

745
00:56:28,760 --> 00:56:33,320
» You could go back in with one. That's
correct.

746
00:56:30,600 --> 00:56:38,240
» But you you have a zone for mobile homes
specifically, and that does allow

747
00:56:36,080 --> 00:56:40,120
for a mobile home to be brought in if it
>> meets the

748
00:56:38,800 --> 00:56:41,720
» meets certain age requirements. I think
it's five It has to be five years or

749
00:56:41,600 --> 00:56:44,840
five
>> Five years. That's right.

750
00:56:42,680 --> 00:56:49,160
» That's within your mobile home zoning
classification. So, you have that, and

751
00:56:46,480 --> 00:56:51,440
it does allow for that to be brought in.
>> It

752
00:56:49,920 --> 00:56:56,040
So, it doesn't allow for old mobile
homes to be brought in. It only allows

753
00:56:53,240 --> 00:56:59,120
for for the ones that have been five
years or

754
00:56:57,560 --> 00:57:03,600
» Yeah, and I think what Mr. Kirkendall's
remembering is that you did put a stop

755
00:57:01,120 --> 00:57:05,640
to bringing mobile homes back into the
different residential zoning

756
00:57:04,920 --> 00:57:10,440
classification.
>> Whether they be new or old.

757
00:57:07,920 --> 00:57:10,440
» That's correct.

758
00:57:10,560 --> 00:57:17,120
» There's only a handful of these.
>> Yeah, how many How many RMH zones are

759
00:57:15,480 --> 00:57:19,840
there? Do you know,
Mr. Woman?

760
00:57:17,880 --> 00:57:23,960
» Well, there's um
North route, there's two mobile home

761
00:57:22,280 --> 00:57:27,240
parks there.
Um

762
00:57:25,760 --> 00:57:29,800
I'm trying to remember
from memory.

763
00:57:30,600 --> 00:57:35,280
There's one down on West Centennial
Street.

764
00:57:34,000 --> 00:57:40,160
Um
And and then those two that were started

765
00:57:37,640 --> 00:57:45,160
out there.
>> And so that and that this is limited to

766
00:57:42,760 --> 00:57:49,120
those
areas that are already zoned and then it

767
00:57:47,280 --> 00:57:55,160
would be up to this council or future
councils if you were to annex something

768
00:57:51,640 --> 00:57:59,280
to change the zoning, but
under your intention and mine as well,

769
00:57:56,880 --> 00:58:01,680
we would not be adding more RVs.
>> That's right.

770
00:58:02,320 --> 00:58:08,760
But but correct me if I'm wrong, if
someone were to come in [clears throat]

771
00:58:06,760 --> 00:58:13,440
to the planning commission and want to
have another mobile home park, we do

772
00:58:11,960 --> 00:58:17,480
have that
RMH that they could take a look at.

773
00:58:17,080 --> 00:58:20,960
» Right.
>> Whether they approved it or not,

774
00:58:19,560 --> 00:58:23,360
that's that would be left to the
planning commission.

775
00:58:21,760 --> 00:58:26,960
» Right.
>> Because the zoning is there.

776
00:58:30,160 --> 00:58:36,080
» Okay.
We're ready to vote on first reading.

777
00:58:34,600 --> 00:58:38,280
Okay, all in favor please say aye.
>> Aye.

778
00:58:36,680 --> 00:58:41,720
» All opposed, no.
And the motion carries. Thank you.

779
00:58:46,200 --> 00:58:53,960
» Uh next item on the agenda is for
council to consider first reading of an

780
00:58:51,440 --> 00:58:55,320
ordinance for annexation and of
continuous

781
00:58:55,075 --> 00:58:59,640
» [clears throat and cough]
>> real property in the corporate city

782
00:58:57,120 --> 00:59:05,160
limits of Clinton located at the
intersection of South Carolina Highway

783
00:59:01,600 --> 00:59:10,240
56 and Cambridge Road identified as
Laurens County tax map numbers

784
00:59:07,240 --> 00:59:10,240
617-00-00-028,

785
00:59:14,960 --> 00:59:17,960
617-00-00-015,

786
00:59:20,840 --> 00:59:24,120
and 617-00-00-016.

787
00:59:29,960 --> 00:59:39,360
» Okay, so this is um recommendation from
staff and it comes as approval from the

788
00:59:36,400 --> 00:59:44,760
planning commission. Am I correct?
>> Okay, so to get this on the table for

789
00:59:42,160 --> 00:59:47,120
discussion, I'll entertain a motion.
>> So moved.

790
00:59:45,640 --> 00:59:53,120
» Have a motion from Ms. Walsh.
>> Second.

791
00:59:47,600 --> 00:59:57,600
» Second from um Mr. Smith. Okay. Now, oh
we're going to get

792
00:59:54,600 --> 01:00:02,000
some information to get to start start
on that now, so let's go.

793
00:59:58,680 --> 01:00:07,040
» Can I Can I add a motion?
>> No, no, we we've got this motion on the

794
01:00:04,160 --> 01:00:10,800
table, yeah. No, we're not we're not
going to do that.

795
01:00:08,440 --> 01:00:10,800
Okay.

796
01:00:14,600 --> 01:00:17,000
» Good evening.
>> Good evening.

797
01:00:15,920 --> 01:00:20,520
» How are you?
Well, um

798
01:00:18,160 --> 01:00:24,200
I can safely say I'm not here asking for
RMH zoning, so I'm a little confused. Uh

799
01:00:22,920 --> 01:00:29,960
but
um My name's Patrick McNair. Um and I

800
01:00:28,240 --> 01:00:34,640
just thought I'd start out my We've got
a presentation here. I think you all

801
01:00:31,640 --> 01:00:36,960
have it as well on the TV. Um I will try
to move through it quickly. I know it's

802
01:00:35,960 --> 01:00:38,880
already been presented to planning
commission. I know they're

803
01:00:37,640 --> 01:00:43,280
» They're moving, but we've got it.
>> Yeah, you can move it You can move it

804
01:00:40,600 --> 01:00:45,360
that way. We have it in front of us.
Um

805
01:00:43,680 --> 01:00:47,480
» No, we we've got it on our TV.
>> it toward toward the audience.

806
01:00:47,040 --> 01:00:51,120
» There you go.
>> We've got little screens up here.

807
01:00:50,080 --> 01:00:54,840
Um
so I thought, you know, I I'd start with

808
01:00:53,400 --> 01:00:59,440
at least introducing our team. I think I
missed doing that in the planning

809
01:00:56,480 --> 01:01:04,440
commission. Um and you know, I know
there's been some questions on um you

810
01:01:02,080 --> 01:01:07,120
know, our our ability to execute
developments or maybe our resume. And so

811
01:01:06,080 --> 01:01:12,320
I'll just give you a quick introduction
of the team. Um so myself, Patrick

812
01:01:09,640 --> 01:01:15,640
McNair, uh president of Brand Homes uh
and co-owner with my business partner

813
01:01:13,880 --> 01:01:21,760
Paul Passenger, who who is here, by the
way. Um and so um

814
01:01:18,840 --> 01:01:25,760
but uh I I in development My family My
my father, uncle, grandfather developed

815
01:01:24,200 --> 01:01:28,720
in the state of South Carolina my entire
life. Um that's what we did.

816
01:01:28,120 --> 01:01:32,160
Um
I moved into sales and then into a

817
01:01:30,160 --> 01:01:36,000
position of the head of finance.
Where for Carl, I ran underwriting,

818
01:01:33,520 --> 01:01:41,160
reporting, and banking relationships,
securing funding for major projects

819
01:01:39,120 --> 01:01:45,160
like this one for years.
Um so I'm very familiar with how to fund

820
01:01:43,320 --> 01:01:49,040
these and am open to any questions on
that. Um cuz that's what I did for a

821
01:01:47,960 --> 01:01:51,800
long time.
Uh

822
01:01:50,160 --> 01:01:55,320
during that process, secured almost 200
million in bank funding

823
01:01:53,880 --> 01:01:59,280
which gave Essex the fuel to grow to a
top 50 builder in the United States.

824
01:01:57,680 --> 01:02:01,760
Built by this guy here.
Um

825
01:02:00,000 --> 01:02:04,840
and I'll get more on Carl in a second.
Uh at that point, Essex Homes was

826
01:02:03,520 --> 01:02:07,560
purchased by Stanley Martin, so there
was a comment on

827
01:02:06,320 --> 01:02:10,720
Stanley Martin finishing Longview. That
is correct. It was the back end of

828
01:02:09,160 --> 01:02:14,680
Longview, but it was all developed and
started by this group and Essex Homes

829
01:02:13,000 --> 01:02:18,000
which he owned.
Um

830
01:02:16,520 --> 01:02:20,400
at that time, we were purchased and Carl
and I became executives at Stanley

831
01:02:19,200 --> 01:02:23,760
Martin Homes, which is a national home
builder.

832
01:02:21,720 --> 01:02:26,400
Um which we did learn a lot from. Um I
was I had the privilege of becoming the

833
01:02:24,800 --> 01:02:30,440
youngest executive in Stanley Martin
history by two decades.

834
01:02:28,120 --> 01:02:33,960
Um and uh that was
a nod from a president of that company

835
01:02:32,840 --> 01:02:39,360
that has been in home building his
entire life who trusted that I could run

836
01:02:37,000 --> 01:02:43,600
an operation, run projects like this. Um
and we did. Um and actually we took the

837
01:02:41,640 --> 01:02:47,240
division um that I took over in the
market which was here in the Upstate

838
01:02:45,680 --> 01:02:50,640
from last place in the company to first
place in the entire nation in the

839
01:02:49,840 --> 01:02:53,640
company
under

840
01:02:51,640 --> 01:02:56,480
my leadership.
Major projects that I developed ranging

841
01:02:55,200 --> 01:03:01,240
to 4 to 500 lots. There were some
questions on that. Um in a 4-year span,

842
01:02:59,280 --> 01:03:04,360
Bridgeport, Carlin, and the Hamptons.
You can look that up on Stanley Martin's

843
01:03:02,360 --> 01:03:08,080
website. No, I did not own that company,
but I was the division president. I did

844
01:03:06,520 --> 01:03:11,000
underwrite those. I did stand in front
of councils like just like this and

845
01:03:10,080 --> 01:03:14,760
develop and see those through.
Bridgeport's 500 lots in the center of

846
01:03:13,480 --> 01:03:18,640
Greenville.
Very complicated development we executed

847
01:03:16,760 --> 01:03:22,360
and is now the best-selling
neighborhood in the entire Upstate for

848
01:03:20,560 --> 01:03:26,240
all builders.
And we did execute that that well. Um

849
01:03:25,000 --> 01:03:29,440
projects overseen, underwritten, and
obtained funding for Longview is one of

850
01:03:28,520 --> 01:03:31,200
them.
Um

851
01:03:30,200 --> 01:03:35,280
Yes,
we we we were the team that did that.

852
01:03:33,320 --> 01:03:39,000
Carl Astor, Frank Berry is in the room.
He was the head of development for that

853
01:03:36,360 --> 01:03:41,960
project. Um we were Essex Homes. He
owned it, we worked for it.

854
01:03:40,880 --> 01:03:46,320
Um
and Shaping Place, Four Lakes, over 20

855
01:03:44,160 --> 01:03:49,640
projects in the 100 to 300
to lot range.

856
01:03:48,120 --> 01:03:54,400
Um
also um on the homeowners association

857
01:03:51,800 --> 01:03:58,280
board here locally.
Um and have won builder of the year

858
01:03:56,640 --> 01:04:01,080
three different times at three different
operations.

859
01:03:59,560 --> 01:04:03,400
Um
Look, I don't say that to bang on my

860
01:04:02,280 --> 01:04:06,600
chest. That's about as far as you're
going to hear me talk about me.

861
01:04:05,040 --> 01:04:08,760
Um
you know, I I think there was some

862
01:04:07,680 --> 01:04:11,600
mention
of do we have the resume? And I'm just

863
01:04:10,280 --> 01:04:14,560
trying to introduce the people you have
here so you at least understand cuz you

864
01:04:12,520 --> 01:04:19,320
don't know us from Adam, right?
Um you know, my goal in these meetings,

865
01:04:17,040 --> 01:04:24,240
my goal in what I've done in the past,
um we're local home builder.

866
01:04:22,760 --> 01:04:27,800
There are two local home builders I can
count in this state

867
01:04:26,280 --> 01:04:29,960
that have the ability to execute a
development like this, and we're one of

868
01:04:29,200 --> 01:04:33,600
them.
Um

869
01:04:31,440 --> 01:04:37,000
and at the end of the day,
we're not here to be the rest of the

870
01:04:35,160 --> 01:04:40,480
guys. I know there was comments, look at
the other builders,

871
01:04:38,640 --> 01:04:44,200
look at what they've done.
Our entire mission,

872
01:04:42,800 --> 01:04:46,800
I'd still be working in a national home
builder right now if that's what I

873
01:04:45,480 --> 01:04:50,960
wanted to do,
right? Our our entire mission is to

874
01:04:49,480 --> 01:04:54,280
bring back the reputation that Essex
Homes had,

875
01:04:52,440 --> 01:04:58,120
which was the local builder of choice
that built a better home and did a

876
01:04:55,640 --> 01:05:01,760
better job. And anyone
during that period from 1993 to 2020 in

877
01:05:00,560 --> 01:05:04,840
West Essex, which Essex Homes was
operated and owned by this guy right

878
01:05:03,040 --> 01:05:07,960
here,
that sold homes or was around it will

879
01:05:06,320 --> 01:05:10,760
confirm that was the mission and the
motto. And that's what we're here to do.

880
01:05:09,520 --> 01:05:15,440
And and so most cities and
municipalities I as a walk into

881
01:05:12,960 --> 01:05:19,560
welcome us with open arms because we are
willing to build a better product. We do

882
01:05:17,480 --> 01:05:23,800
live here. We are local.
You don't have to call DC or Texas to go

883
01:05:21,800 --> 01:05:28,200
and get an answer about it.
It's not That's not right. It's right

884
01:05:25,640 --> 01:05:30,800
here. We're here. And so our goal is to
build something better and I'm going to

885
01:05:29,000 --> 01:05:36,720
show you that in the site plan. Another
person I introduced Frank Berry um

886
01:05:33,440 --> 01:05:39,640
He's been in development since 1992. Um
He was the head of development back

887
01:05:38,720 --> 01:05:41,800
there in the corner if you raise your
hand. [laughter]

888
01:05:40,520 --> 01:05:46,080
Uh he was the head of development for
the Longview project and many many

889
01:05:43,200 --> 01:05:49,080
others. Um started as an engineer.
Moved into development in 2005.

890
01:05:47,800 --> 01:05:53,960
Responsible for the development of over
4,000 lots and oversaw development

891
01:05:51,440 --> 01:05:56,840
developers on far far more. So yes, like
the Foxbank project we are buying lots

892
01:05:55,440 --> 01:06:01,480
from other not the developer. Most home
builders of any size do not develop

893
01:05:59,480 --> 01:06:04,800
every single project they have. They
balance the portfolio, right? We're

894
01:06:03,600 --> 01:06:07,320
going to develop some. There's some
benefit to that, right? In the right

895
01:06:06,160 --> 01:06:10,040
areas with the right project we're going
to do that. Some we have good

896
01:06:08,800 --> 01:06:12,440
development relationships so we buy lots
from them.

897
01:06:10,800 --> 01:06:15,560
Um
He's also the chair of planning

898
01:06:13,920 --> 01:06:19,800
commission in the town of Lexington and
has been part of municipal planning and

899
01:06:17,520 --> 01:06:22,600
planning commission since 2003. So we do
have somebody on our staff very good

900
01:06:21,160 --> 01:06:25,160
knowledge of what y'all do and by the
way

901
01:06:23,560 --> 01:06:28,480
appreciate what y'all do. I know none of
this is easy no matter what questions

902
01:06:27,040 --> 01:06:32,680
get asked to me no matter what your
decision is. I know

903
01:06:30,400 --> 01:06:36,360
this is all tough and and so I
appreciate what you do.

904
01:06:34,080 --> 01:06:40,560
Um Carl Hassinger
um

905
01:06:37,120 --> 01:06:45,920
Carl started building homes in 1986.
He started Essex in 1993.

906
01:06:43,960 --> 01:06:48,640
He made it through 2008 without any
layoffs.

907
01:06:48,840 --> 01:06:53,760
I don't know another builder that did
that.

908
01:06:51,720 --> 01:06:57,760
We talk about failed developments
a company that's going to have a failed

909
01:06:54,920 --> 01:06:57,760
development

910
01:06:58,360 --> 01:07:02,440
That guy right there made it through '08
without layoffs.

911
01:07:02,600 --> 01:07:06,360
That's pretty strong.
Um

912
01:07:08,000 --> 01:07:13,160
He grew Essex to be a top 50 builder in
the United States across two states,

913
01:07:11,440 --> 01:07:16,160
five markets
selling over 1,000 homes a year. He did

914
01:07:14,880 --> 01:07:19,160
sell to Stanley Martin Homes, became a
regional president and executive there

915
01:07:17,560 --> 01:07:21,800
for years.
He's experienced in development, home

916
01:07:20,280 --> 01:07:24,760
building, developmental funding. Fun
fact about him, he's actually a nuclear

917
01:07:23,200 --> 01:07:29,311
engineer, so he's way smarter than I am.
So, I don't know why I'm here talking.

918
01:07:27,291 --> 01:07:29,311
» [laughter]

919
01:07:29,480 --> 01:07:36,520
» Uh and has been on the state housing
board for 4 years. So, um he he has

920
01:07:33,840 --> 01:07:38,320
given back to the state in that regard.
Um

921
01:07:37,200 --> 01:07:41,400
and so, there's a lot of work that goes
into that. And also, I have Heath Davis,

922
01:07:40,680 --> 01:07:44,560
um
8 years of commercial development across

923
01:07:43,200 --> 01:07:48,360
two states,
um and has been on the economic

924
01:07:46,320 --> 01:07:52,480
economic, excuse me, development board
for Greenwood for almost 3 years.

925
01:07:51,080 --> 01:07:55,800
Was the chair of government relations
for Greenwood.

926
01:07:54,080 --> 01:08:00,120
He is local.
And his team has been developing and

927
01:07:57,080 --> 01:08:03,120
contracting subdivisions for 30 years.
So,

928
01:08:01,440 --> 01:08:05,880
all that to say, I think I might have
failed in introducing our team in

929
01:08:04,600 --> 01:08:09,000
planning commission. I know there's been
a lot of questions around, can we do it?

930
01:08:07,800 --> 01:08:13,720
Do we know what we're doing? And I at
least want to answer that, right? Um and

931
01:08:10,840 --> 01:08:15,840
so, with that said, um and I'll let
Heath say some things at the end of

932
01:08:14,840 --> 01:08:19,160
this, but I'm going to run you through
here and try to get you through a little

933
01:08:17,600 --> 01:08:22,319
quicker than I had it planned. So, we're
at 5 minutes.

934
01:08:20,480 --> 01:08:24,319
Um all right, Cambridge Farms. Uh we go
to the next slide, if you don't mind.

935
01:08:24,277 --> 01:08:28,080
» [clears throat]
>> Location. Uh I believe it will be six,

936
01:08:26,160 --> 01:08:30,600
right next to the Ingles. Um
I think everybody's pretty familiar with

937
01:08:29,080 --> 01:08:35,960
the location. That's been explained many
times. We go to the next slide.

938
01:08:33,600 --> 01:08:43,080
Um so, the first plan we brought, yes,
we we did bring a plan to the city.

939
01:08:38,400 --> 01:08:45,720
That original plan was 607 lots.
Um one of the biggest things that was

940
01:08:44,359 --> 01:08:49,000
brought up in that meeting was the fact
that in the R3 classification we were

941
01:08:47,160 --> 01:08:52,400
asking for, there was concern on
multi-family. And and totally understand

942
01:08:50,799 --> 01:08:56,319
that, right? I um
have no desire to do that here.

943
01:08:54,839 --> 01:09:00,640
I really we want to make our name off of
being the single-family home builder.

944
01:08:59,040 --> 01:09:03,720
You know, like many builders, we've had
to go in and build some townhome

945
01:09:01,839 --> 01:09:06,120
neighborhoods in certain areas, but that
is not our bread and butter. And if you

946
01:09:04,799 --> 01:09:09,359
look at our backlog of what's coming,
not what's on our website,

947
01:09:07,839 --> 01:09:11,440
you'll see it's mostly stuff like this
because that's where we want to make our

948
01:09:10,319 --> 01:09:14,240
name.
We're not going to make our name against

949
01:09:13,480 --> 01:09:18,440
I'm not going to mention the big
national names that are in town.

950
01:09:16,960 --> 01:09:23,240
Going against them cost by cost, that's
not how we do it, right? We have to be

951
01:09:20,640 --> 01:09:27,200
better. We have to build better. We have
to have a better name and have better

952
01:09:24,359 --> 01:09:30,600
subdivisions, or we won't compete.
They build 90,000 homes a year. We'll

953
01:09:28,960 --> 01:09:32,799
never compete with that, right? So, we
have to be better. We have to build

954
01:09:31,680 --> 01:09:34,640
better.
Um

955
01:09:33,560 --> 01:09:38,960
And so, we didn't have any intention on
multi-family. And so, R3S zoning was

956
01:09:37,600 --> 01:09:43,000
created with you, you know, that's
great. We saw that opportunity and and

957
01:09:40,839 --> 01:09:45,040
R2S. And so,
it actually fit the bill even better

958
01:09:44,188 --> 01:09:48,960
[clears throat] for us cuz we had no
desire to go multi-family.

959
01:09:47,720 --> 01:09:52,080
And so,
with that and also on this version that

960
01:09:50,960 --> 01:09:56,520
we brought you last time, we only had a
clubhouse and a pool. Someone pointed

961
01:09:53,279 --> 01:09:59,440
that out and explain why later. So, we
we were

962
01:09:57,760 --> 01:10:06,120
at the time, you go to the next slide,
please. Um at the time, we were

963
01:10:03,360 --> 01:10:11,640
Well, we are, I guess, in the county and
zoned by right. Um we took this site

964
01:10:08,920 --> 01:10:15,000
plan, which is 5.3 lots, a little less,
to the county, which is effectively R1,

965
01:10:13,360 --> 01:10:17,680
R2, and R3. You can see the color
coordination there.

966
01:10:16,680 --> 01:10:23,360
Um
and we did receive a staff approval

967
01:10:20,520 --> 01:10:26,800
letter that said that we were approved
by the ordinances, by the law, publicly

968
01:10:25,360 --> 01:10:29,560
posted.
Um and you guys know the rest of the

969
01:10:28,600 --> 01:10:34,440
story.
Um and if we need questions answered on

970
01:10:32,680 --> 01:10:37,080
that, I know that
you're planning there's some question

971
01:10:35,360 --> 01:10:41,360
around around me not being an attorney,
and I am not. So,

972
01:10:39,120 --> 01:10:44,880
first admit that. Um we did bring our
attorney, Robert Bond's here, was on the

973
01:10:43,200 --> 01:10:48,560
actual case.
Um and so, he's the attorney that

974
01:10:46,680 --> 01:10:52,600
actually sat in the courtroom, actually
knows all the facts. And so, if you have

975
01:10:51,280 --> 01:10:54,720
any questions on it,
our whole team is here to answer

976
01:10:53,560 --> 01:10:58,200
questions for y'all. So, I just want to
bring somebody that's more credible than

977
01:10:56,360 --> 01:11:02,240
me so on that.
Um and so, if we just go uh uh to the

978
01:11:00,560 --> 01:11:05,000
next slide,
go to the next. I think everybody knows

979
01:11:03,600 --> 01:11:08,520
the outcome.
Um

980
01:11:05,800 --> 01:11:11,640
So, the new River City plan.
Look,

981
01:11:10,280 --> 01:11:17,360
Patrick,
if the judge overturned the order and

982
01:11:16,040 --> 01:11:22,640
you have invested in an approved site
plan per judge order

983
01:11:19,560 --> 01:11:25,560
and can go forward while you're here.
Probably valid question that you might

984
01:11:24,200 --> 01:11:30,280
ask me already. So, I'll
throw it out there. Um look, I have

985
01:11:28,240 --> 01:11:33,760
worked with the city for over a year and
a half on this project.

986
01:11:32,040 --> 01:11:38,320
I said earlier we're a local builder
that makes our name on relationships

987
01:11:36,840 --> 01:11:42,000
and building
better neighborhoods and better homes.

988
01:11:43,600 --> 01:11:50,280
This housing development right here is
right on the border of the city.

989
01:11:48,480 --> 01:11:54,720
This project can do a lot of great
things for the city that I'll list out

990
01:11:52,120 --> 01:11:58,000
on another slide.
And I think I'd be remiss to not come

991
01:11:55,920 --> 01:12:02,760
back to the city who has worked for me
worked with me, I've had meetings with,

992
01:12:00,520 --> 01:12:06,800
right? Asked for feedback on what the
city would want

993
01:12:04,720 --> 01:12:11,200
to bring it into the city
and let the city get the revenue and the

994
01:12:08,440 --> 01:12:13,480
benefit from it
because we don't plan on this being our

995
01:12:12,400 --> 01:12:18,520
last
community in Clinton.

996
01:12:16,280 --> 01:12:21,240
We're the South Carolina
We're a local South Carolina builder and

997
01:12:20,000 --> 01:12:24,440
we're going to make our name on building
throughout South Carolina. And we do, we

998
01:12:23,080 --> 01:12:28,120
build in in five markets in South
Carolina.

999
01:12:26,160 --> 01:12:32,640
Some of the things we added to this,
other than reducing lots of what we

1000
01:12:29,920 --> 01:12:37,120
could go do with 523 lots,
we added an 11-acre

1001
01:12:35,560 --> 01:12:41,960
central park amenity that was not on
what you saw the first time.

1002
01:12:38,840 --> 01:12:44,720
And it was also not on the county plan
that is approved.

1003
01:12:45,080 --> 01:12:49,080
We also have the pool and the amenity.

1004
01:12:49,680 --> 01:12:54,200
And we reduced lots
and we added in the commercial. Why did

1005
01:12:52,560 --> 01:12:58,040
we add in the commercial?
We've had meetings

1006
01:12:56,760 --> 01:13:01,880
with the city,
with citizens. We have had meetings with

1007
01:12:59,360 --> 01:13:07,000
some citizens, and meetings with staff,
different members of of commission, etc.

1008
01:13:05,320 --> 01:13:09,960
Not to be underhanded, but to ask what
does the city want?

1009
01:13:08,680 --> 01:13:15,200
And the thing that I heard over and over
again was that the city wants

1010
01:13:12,720 --> 01:13:18,040
better restaurants, grocery stores, nice
boutique retail.

1011
01:13:17,000 --> 01:13:20,720
And that's what we intend to do there.
That's why I put that there. I'm not a

1012
01:13:19,280 --> 01:13:25,200
commercial developer. That is not what I
do.

1013
01:13:22,280 --> 01:13:27,440
My grandfather was, but I am not.
Um

1014
01:13:26,080 --> 01:13:30,680
And so, because of that, I brought in an
experienced commercial developer. But,

1015
01:13:29,560 --> 01:13:33,920
the kind of cycling we could do is all
residential, because that's who we are.

1016
01:13:31,800 --> 01:13:37,440
We're we're residential home builders.
Um

1017
01:13:35,280 --> 01:13:41,040
but we had that added that because we
had heard so much feedback that

1018
01:13:38,840 --> 01:13:45,760
residents wanted
restaurants, grocery stores.

1019
01:13:43,360 --> 01:13:49,800
Maybe daycare. And so,
that's why that was added in there.

1020
01:13:47,720 --> 01:13:49,800
Um

1021
01:13:49,880 --> 01:13:57,360
With that, the zoning R1, um those lots
are bigger than the current R1 lot

1022
01:13:55,040 --> 01:14:03,400
minimum. R1 lot minimum 7,100 square
feet. Those are 10,500 square feet. R2S,

1023
01:14:01,040 --> 01:14:09,040
um those are 8,700 square foot lots.
R3S, 7,500 square foot lots.

1024
01:14:06,880 --> 01:14:13,000
Small commercial parcel, and then the AR
zoning is for the current home. We just,

1025
01:14:11,200 --> 01:14:16,800
you know, that's not going to go with
the development.

1026
01:14:14,560 --> 01:14:22,040
Um
we're going to have walking trails,

1027
01:14:19,040 --> 01:14:22,040
sidewalks,

1028
01:14:22,720 --> 01:14:30,400
major amenities with a central park,
athletic field, fire pit, playgrounds.

1029
01:14:28,840 --> 01:14:33,520
Put in a lot of infrastructure to make
sure that this is something nice,

1030
01:14:31,840 --> 01:14:36,976
because what
we would like this to be, is I can

1031
01:14:35,200 --> 01:14:39,080
promise you
>> [clears throat]

1032
01:14:37,120 --> 01:14:41,560
» there is nothing like that. And I'm I'm
building

1033
01:14:40,280 --> 01:14:44,000
and and and I have land throughout
Lawrence County. There's nothing like

1034
01:14:42,400 --> 01:14:49,320
that in Lawrence County right now.
And there are a lot of jobs coming.

1035
01:14:46,120 --> 01:14:52,760
With that kind of amenity,
with those size lots, there's not.

1036
01:14:53,320 --> 01:14:55,760
Um

1037
01:14:56,240 --> 01:14:59,960
So, to me, I see this as a destination
community.

1038
01:14:59,080 --> 01:15:01,880
And that's what we're trying to build
here.

1039
01:15:00,720 --> 01:15:07,840
Um
Next slide.

1040
01:15:04,320 --> 01:15:11,440
So, why R2S and R3S?
So, one quote from the comp plan, so I

1041
01:15:09,560 --> 01:15:17,440
heard "Hey, stick with the comp plan" a
lot tonight. I would encourage that.

1042
01:15:14,080 --> 01:15:21,840
Um if you look at the section we're in,
we're actually uh bringing in a lesser

1043
01:15:19,400 --> 01:15:25,520
density than what the use says is called
for in that area. Um so, I would stick

1044
01:15:24,440 --> 01:15:29,440
with the comp plan. I agree with
everybody who has said that. Um

1045
01:15:27,440 --> 01:15:31,880
so, residential growth and housing
diversity is a quote from the comp plan.

1046
01:15:30,760 --> 01:15:35,760
Planned residential development
highlights the need for additional

1047
01:15:33,960 --> 01:15:38,880
housing capacity.
This is the This is the city's comp

1048
01:15:37,240 --> 01:15:45,280
plan. I didn't I didn't write this.
The need for additional housing capacity

1049
01:15:41,240 --> 01:15:45,280
and a broader range of housing types.

1050
01:15:46,560 --> 01:15:53,000
Would going in and putting in
500 of the same type house accomplish

1051
01:15:51,680 --> 01:15:57,240
that?
I think it would, right? And and here's

1052
01:15:55,720 --> 01:16:02,000
the reasoning
that we're asking for R2S and R3S. Yes,

1053
01:16:00,000 --> 01:16:05,800
it is the lot width. Yes,
if you see on this exhibit,

1054
01:16:04,120 --> 01:16:11,080
if I have a 70-ft wide lot, I have to
eat 70 ft of very expensive

1055
01:16:07,840 --> 01:16:15,040
infrastructure, which is roads, curb,
gutter,

1056
01:16:12,600 --> 01:16:18,360
sewer, water lines, a lot of things,
right?

1057
01:16:16,120 --> 01:16:22,680
So, when you look at the R3S, let's
start there.

1058
01:16:20,120 --> 01:16:26,200
That section,
I believe your emergency services

1059
01:16:24,720 --> 01:16:29,520
personnel should be able to live in a
neighborhood that's nice like that.

1060
01:16:30,440 --> 01:16:36,760
And that addresses the need for
additional housing capacity and a

1061
01:16:33,880 --> 01:16:40,360
broader range of housing types.
Um

1062
01:16:38,760 --> 01:16:44,840
Well, at the end of the day, and not
just them, teachers, right? Any Anyone

1063
01:16:43,280 --> 01:16:48,880
who is looking for an affordable new
single family home

1064
01:16:47,280 --> 01:16:51,840
with warranties and a nice neighborhood
with big amenities.

1065
01:16:52,040 --> 01:17:00,880
If I eat an additional 20 ft
of all of those infrastructures, all of

1066
01:16:57,320 --> 01:17:04,320
the infrastructure into that lot,
that is going to add to the cost of the

1067
01:17:02,280 --> 01:17:08,800
home, and that buyer is very sensitive
on on payment.

1068
01:17:06,480 --> 01:17:12,640
They might not qualify for the home.
That's the intention of it.

1069
01:17:10,240 --> 01:17:16,160
But because of that, and and because I
want you to know that I'm not going to

1070
01:17:13,760 --> 01:17:20,120
go below 7,500 sq ft,
there's a development agreement that's

1071
01:17:17,960 --> 01:17:25,040
been put forth that was mentioned at
planning, and that was how it was

1072
01:17:22,920 --> 01:17:28,080
recommended and approved by planning.
Um and I'll go through those bullet

1073
01:17:26,160 --> 01:17:32,320
points later.
But the development agreement

1074
01:17:30,160 --> 01:17:35,120
is me saying I'm here to do what I say
I'm going to do.

1075
01:17:33,760 --> 01:17:39,600
I am not the other builders or
developers who came behind me.

1076
01:17:38,280 --> 01:17:42,120
Here to do what I'm I'm I say I'm going
to do, and I'm willing to back that up

1077
01:17:41,240 --> 01:17:46,160
with a development agreement that
restricts me

1078
01:17:44,360 --> 01:17:48,960
to where I won't go below 7,500 sq ft.
And by the way,

1079
01:17:47,440 --> 01:17:54,000
if you look on the right, if I do it on
a 50-ft wide lot and leave it at 7,500

1080
01:17:51,000 --> 01:17:59,160
sq ft, that's 150 ft of depth, where the
people get a much bigger backyard.

1081
01:17:57,240 --> 01:18:02,240
Do people fence in their side yard or
their back yard?

1082
01:18:00,720 --> 01:18:04,600
Their back yard.
And the kids play in the back yard.

1083
01:18:03,520 --> 01:18:09,480
They're going to get more back yard out
of this.

1084
01:18:06,320 --> 01:18:13,640
Um next slide.
So, these are our homes that'll go in

1085
01:18:12,000 --> 01:18:17,640
the R3S.
Um

1086
01:18:15,080 --> 01:18:20,120
these square feet foot range in the in
the low 2,000s.

1087
01:18:19,480 --> 01:18:25,000
Um
they are bigger than what one of our

1088
01:18:23,200 --> 01:18:28,440
competitors' neighborhoods, which if you
want to run through the underwriting, it

1089
01:18:26,240 --> 01:18:31,720
was mentioned earlier, happy to do that.
Um

1090
01:18:29,200 --> 01:18:35,360
was mentioned um that competitor between
1,200 and 1,700 sq ft. We don't have a

1091
01:18:33,480 --> 01:18:39,200
single house in here that's small.
Um and that was used in the comp study

1092
01:18:37,880 --> 01:18:41,440
to prove out the numbers, but I'm happy
to run through that.

1093
01:18:40,520 --> 01:18:45,240
Um,
so that's it and I'll say this, looking

1094
01:18:43,520 --> 01:18:48,600
at that hopefully you see that that is a
our our goal is nicer elevations which

1095
01:18:47,080 --> 01:18:51,680
create nicer streetscapes, better
landscaping packages which when you pull

1096
01:18:50,080 --> 01:18:55,040
up through our neighborhood, you don't
wonder

1097
01:18:52,720 --> 01:18:57,400
which builder is this on the builder 100
list, right? You pull through our

1098
01:18:56,400 --> 01:19:00,240
neighborhood and immediately know this
is this is a Veranda Homes community

1099
01:18:58,960 --> 01:19:05,000
just like you did when it was an Essex
Homes community.

1100
01:19:01,880 --> 01:19:09,120
Um, next slide, please.
So, this is the R2 S section. So, this

1101
01:19:07,200 --> 01:19:15,360
is a little little larger house. Um,
you'll run in the mid 2000s to high 2000

1102
01:19:11,680 --> 01:19:19,280
square foot range. Um, in this lot size
and buyer type which we're trying to hit

1103
01:19:17,000 --> 01:19:24,080
multiple buyers within the city, right?
Um, you can do two things typically. Uh,

1104
01:19:22,040 --> 01:19:28,200
it can be a first move up buyer,
uh, two-story home, a little larger,

1105
01:19:25,720 --> 01:19:30,800
family that's growing, right? Um, or it
can be a move down buyer as you see a

1106
01:19:29,560 --> 01:19:33,040
ranch plan right there which is our
Redbud plan which is one of our

1107
01:19:31,840 --> 01:19:34,960
best-selling homes.
>> [clears throat]

1108
01:19:33,280 --> 01:19:38,960
» Um, and is being sold. It is the model
of Foxbank. Um, it's been mentioned.

1109
01:19:37,160 --> 01:19:42,240
Next slide.
Um,

1110
01:19:40,160 --> 01:19:46,360
so then we have the 52-foot plans.
Um, that is your R1.

1111
01:19:44,920 --> 01:19:49,640
Um,
what's shown there is your what's

1112
01:19:48,000 --> 01:19:52,035
popular right now which is the farmhouse
style, but we have all kinds of

1113
01:19:50,760 --> 01:19:54,120
different elevations, right?
[clears throat]

1114
01:19:52,760 --> 01:19:57,640
Um, this is what I would call our our
bigger luxury home

1115
01:19:56,040 --> 01:20:01,840
um, that'll run
in the 3000 to 4000 square foot range.

1116
01:20:00,360 --> 01:20:04,280
Um,
next slide.

1117
01:20:02,240 --> 01:20:07,440
» quick question. That would go on what
width lot?

1118
01:20:06,280 --> 01:20:09,280
» Can I answer her?
Come back here.

1119
01:20:08,200 --> 01:20:12,440
» Yes, ma'am. What's the question?
>> Those those houses

1120
01:20:10,440 --> 01:20:14,520
» Yes, ma'am. 75
75-foot wide ma'am.

1121
01:20:13,880 --> 01:20:17,480
» And so 52
>> Yes, ma'am.

1122
01:20:16,080 --> 01:20:20,200
Yes, ma'am.
>> So, you have

1123
01:20:17,920 --> 01:20:22,920
» Okay, let's let's let let's let let's
let the Let's keep going with the

1124
01:20:22,440 --> 01:20:24,400
» Yeah.
>> with the

1125
01:20:24,040 --> 01:20:26,960
Mr.
>> So, the

1126
01:20:25,720 --> 01:20:30,160
The deal with these materials I I
actually printed them out, but I know

1127
01:20:28,720 --> 01:20:33,680
you have them you've been sending
they've been sending it you. Um, if

1128
01:20:31,960 --> 01:20:39,160
anybody needed them,
um, we do have a wetland study.

1129
01:20:35,640 --> 01:20:42,040
And so Laura Belanger is here. Sorry, I
hope I didn't screw up your last name.

1130
01:20:41,160 --> 01:20:46,120
» [laughter]
>> But she is the wetlands consultant on

1131
01:20:44,880 --> 01:20:48,520
this project. And so I thought I'd bring
her along this time. There's been a lot

1132
01:20:47,080 --> 01:20:52,600
of questions on it. So I want like I
said, I'm open to questions. And so

1133
01:20:50,360 --> 01:20:54,960
please ask away. But I want to bring the
experts. And so y'all can get the

1134
01:20:53,840 --> 01:20:59,400
answers straight from them. And it's not
just me up here talking. Um

1135
01:20:57,960 --> 01:21:04,800
We have the property survey, the site
plan which you've seen.

1136
01:21:00,560 --> 01:21:08,000
Um traffic study. Um and yes, that will
be updated.

1137
01:21:06,240 --> 01:21:12,320
So standard
anywhere in the state of South Carolina

1138
01:21:09,840 --> 01:21:16,400
that is not updated and reviewed
typically in an annexation and zoning

1139
01:21:14,480 --> 01:21:20,160
meeting, we update that just before the
planning commission meeting for site

1140
01:21:17,920 --> 01:21:23,560
plan approval. Um but we did go ahead
and get one so we were aware at least of

1141
01:21:21,880 --> 01:21:26,280
what the impact would be at least
typically

1142
01:21:24,880 --> 01:21:30,800
what kind of traffic improvements we
would be required to do for budgeting

1143
01:21:28,520 --> 01:21:32,960
purposes. So we do have one um and it
will be updated before planning

1144
01:21:32,120 --> 01:21:38,480
commission meeting for site plan
approval. Um and you know

1145
01:21:36,440 --> 01:21:43,400
that
um

1146
01:21:40,480 --> 01:21:46,880
traffic study
per SCDOT

1147
01:21:44,960 --> 01:21:51,120
Highway 56
the capacity that Highway 56 was

1148
01:21:49,640 --> 01:21:56,640
designed for
right now what's going through it and

1149
01:21:52,400 --> 01:21:59,640
this is not me. It's per SCDOT is at low
use right now.

1150
01:21:58,320 --> 01:22:03,840
It is. That's not me saying that's a
governmental agency who created that.

1151
01:22:01,440 --> 01:22:07,240
And actually, interestingly enough
right here

1152
01:22:05,320 --> 01:22:09,680
is your comp plan, page from your comp
plan.

1153
01:22:10,440 --> 01:22:19,560
Page 7-5
figure 7.4 average annual daily traffic.

1154
01:22:17,920 --> 01:22:22,520
You have five levels of traffic and
there's a circle right in front of our

1155
01:22:20,920 --> 01:22:26,320
site.
This is in the mid level.

1156
01:22:24,360 --> 01:22:30,520
This is the city's comp plan. And in the
city's comp plan, it says, "Fortunately

1157
01:22:29,000 --> 01:22:34,040
for Clinton,
the town already benefits from a solid

1158
01:22:32,280 --> 01:22:38,520
base of roadway infrastructure built
over prior decades,

1159
01:22:36,600 --> 01:22:43,800
which provides a strong foundation for
mobility and connectivity.

1160
01:22:42,320 --> 01:22:46,920
As new residential, commercial, and
industrial development moves forward,

1161
01:22:45,480 --> 01:22:51,560
future roadway construction will
primarily focus on providing new access

1162
01:22:49,760 --> 01:22:55,400
to newly developed properties for
connecting internal streets,

1163
01:22:53,760 --> 01:22:59,920
rather than constructing entirely new
primary thoroughfares."

1164
01:22:57,720 --> 01:23:03,280
Which applies to this because we,
as a developer, will

1165
01:23:01,480 --> 01:23:06,200
put in improvements.
When new roads are created for access to

1166
01:23:04,920 --> 01:23:08,920
new developments, these roadways are
typically constructed by private

1167
01:23:07,480 --> 01:23:12,200
developers, inspected by the local
government, and then either dedicated to

1168
01:23:10,240 --> 01:23:15,720
the city or maintained by private entity
like a homeowners association. So,

1169
01:23:16,120 --> 01:23:22,440
if you don't believe SCDOT or our
traffic study engineer, who is licensed,

1170
01:23:20,440 --> 01:23:24,680
your own comp plan says it.
So,

1171
01:23:23,240 --> 01:23:26,840
not up here lying.
Um

1172
01:23:27,000 --> 01:23:32,760
So, we also have a phase one ESA,
um just to make sure the property's free

1173
01:23:31,560 --> 01:23:36,240
of environmental hazards. We have that,
we've submitted it, you have that, and

1174
01:23:34,160 --> 01:23:41,280
utility will serve letters as well. So,
all that's done. Next slide, please.

1175
01:23:38,720 --> 01:23:43,880
Um benefits to the city, um you know,
revenue

1176
01:23:42,520 --> 01:23:46,880
is an obvious one.
Um you know, look,

1177
01:23:48,880 --> 01:23:54,360
I don't have to pay $4,800 impact fees
in the county when my current site plan

1178
01:23:52,960 --> 01:23:59,920
is approved.
Do 490 * $4,800.

1179
01:23:57,560 --> 01:24:04,280
Right? I- If If you didn't think I was
here in earnest before,

1180
01:24:01,480 --> 01:24:04,280
that's a big number.

1181
01:24:05,680 --> 01:24:11,200
Um
And so, that revenue is obviously a big

1182
01:24:08,520 --> 01:24:14,640
number, the tax base is a big number.
Um

1183
01:24:12,160 --> 01:24:14,640
you know,

1184
01:24:15,360 --> 01:24:21,240
also the ballpark and industrial park.
This will bring bring jobs to people, no

1185
01:24:20,320 --> 01:24:24,360
matter what, right? There's an
industrial park coming, there's a

1186
01:24:22,480 --> 01:24:28,960
ballpark coming, there's hotels in that,
there's restaurants. That is going to

1187
01:24:25,800 --> 01:24:33,200
bring people and traffic and and jobs.
But for the industrial park to get

1188
01:24:30,200 --> 01:24:35,840
filled out with businesses,
you're going to need rooftops.

1189
01:24:35,120 --> 01:24:38,920
Um
I said my my grandfather was in

1190
01:24:37,200 --> 01:24:42,560
commercial real estate my whole life.
And

1191
01:24:40,000 --> 01:24:47,800
my father and uncle did it as well.
And the first question that any business

1192
01:24:45,240 --> 01:24:51,720
or any restaurant or retailer asked when
they walked in that door is how many

1193
01:24:49,000 --> 01:24:55,680
rooftops are around them.
You're already planning for growth. It's

1194
01:24:53,440 --> 01:24:58,360
not a question of if you are. You got an
industrial ballpark, you got the

1195
01:24:56,680 --> 01:25:02,520
industrial facility, you got all this
stuff.

1196
01:24:59,440 --> 01:25:06,680
By the way, the empty retail shops, you
know how those get filled?

1197
01:25:04,000 --> 01:25:11,480
Rooftops.
That is the number one thing needed for

1198
01:25:09,000 --> 01:25:14,920
anything commercial business
or retail.

1199
01:25:13,800 --> 01:25:18,960
Um
the utilities, um

1200
01:25:16,840 --> 01:25:23,080
you know, right now the water capacity
largely largely underutilized. I I know

1201
01:25:20,800 --> 01:25:28,240
y'all know that. Um so, plenty of room
there.

1202
01:25:23,880 --> 01:25:31,920
Um jobs, you know, look,
this improves quality of life in the

1203
01:25:30,040 --> 01:25:36,569
fact that
the average median annual income

1204
01:25:35,160 --> 01:25:39,120
goes up
>> [clears throat]

1205
01:25:36,880 --> 01:25:41,680
» with this. We create jobs with the
boutique retail, right?

1206
01:25:41,120 --> 01:25:47,440
Um
we bring in the people that can fill the

1207
01:25:43,960 --> 01:25:50,720
businesses that will come, right?
Quality of life improves.

1208
01:25:49,320 --> 01:25:54,200
Restaurants and grocery stores, like I
said, in the in the commercial section,

1209
01:25:52,880 --> 01:25:56,520
citizens We we can do that because we
heard the citizens were asking for it.

1210
01:25:55,320 --> 01:26:01,480
That's literally why we put that in
there. Um and the school system right

1211
01:25:58,800 --> 01:26:05,080
now is currently so underutilized and at
risk in Clinton

1212
01:26:03,440 --> 01:26:09,200
that if it is not
filled more, it will be enveloped into

1213
01:26:06,880 --> 01:26:12,880
the Lauren schools.
That is a fact.

1214
01:26:11,240 --> 01:26:16,560
Keep the Clinton schools the Clinton
schools.

1215
01:26:14,040 --> 01:26:20,960
And how do you do that? Rooftops.
People.

1216
01:26:18,480 --> 01:26:20,960
Right?

1217
01:26:21,720 --> 01:26:24,240
Next slide.

1218
01:26:24,320 --> 01:26:28,360
So,
a lot of things were said earlier.

1219
01:26:27,280 --> 01:26:31,360
There's been a lot of questions
submitted. I'm not going to take time to

1220
01:26:30,520 --> 01:26:35,600
go through each one of these
individually cuz I I promise you I'm

1221
01:26:33,520 --> 01:26:38,040
trying to get through this. So, just
know

1222
01:26:36,680 --> 01:26:41,680
we have a whole team here and we're here
to answer any of the questions that were

1223
01:26:39,160 --> 01:26:46,080
asked earlier. We we actually welcome
the questions. I've had some meetings

1224
01:26:43,400 --> 01:26:49,480
with citizens just welcoming questions.
Um

1225
01:26:46,720 --> 01:26:52,400
so, next slide.
Uh why Veranda? Local ownership.

1226
01:26:51,895 --> 01:26:55,040
» [clears throat]
>> Um and I've covered a little bit of

1227
01:26:53,480 --> 01:26:58,880
this, so I won't spend too much time on
it. Um we did win HBA Greenville's

1228
01:26:57,160 --> 01:27:01,800
Builder of the Year this year. I mean, I
I you don't do that for doing a terrible

1229
01:27:00,520 --> 01:27:04,520
job.
Um

1230
01:27:02,560 --> 01:27:07,920
uh and a good partner to the city to
grow the right way. Um

1231
01:27:06,520 --> 01:27:11,440
look,
I'm telling you I've worked in the

1232
01:27:09,600 --> 01:27:14,640
bigger builder sphere. I know what it
looks like and I left it for a reason.

1233
01:27:13,280 --> 01:27:18,040
Um
what I what we're saying we're going to

1234
01:27:15,880 --> 01:27:21,640
do here, we're going to do
and it will be better streetscapes and

1235
01:27:20,360 --> 01:27:23,440
better homes.
Promise that.

1236
01:27:22,880 --> 01:27:26,360
If I can give you one [clears throat]
promise here.

1237
01:27:24,680 --> 01:27:28,960
Um
we also have a local partnership with

1238
01:27:27,560 --> 01:27:32,400
Heath Davis who has a 10-year track
record in commercial.

1239
01:27:30,560 --> 01:27:36,400
Strong financial backing with a local
approach. As you can imagine selling a

1240
01:27:34,480 --> 01:27:39,710
top 50 builder in the United States, we
were very sound in financial backing. I

1241
01:27:38,680 --> 01:27:42,560
know there's questions on that.
[clears throat]

1242
01:27:40,440 --> 01:27:45,680
Happy to elaborate on that.
Um

1243
01:27:43,320 --> 01:27:49,360
and we have documented success with
neighborhoods like Long View which was

1244
01:27:47,440 --> 01:27:52,040
mentioned earlier. But first, before we
go to the tour Long View and I'll leave

1245
01:27:51,040 --> 01:27:57,320
you all with the option if you want me
to tour you Long View. But um go to the

1246
01:27:55,120 --> 01:28:03,720
next slide, please. Um so, our request
for approval, what is it? So, this is

1247
01:27:59,720 --> 01:28:08,200
the request for approval that was
recommended and approved by planning

1248
01:28:05,840 --> 01:28:10,760
commission.
Um

1249
01:28:10,880 --> 01:28:14,800
I mean, I think they did that for a
reason.

1250
01:28:13,360 --> 01:28:17,040
I think this is a better site plan for
the city

1251
01:28:15,920 --> 01:28:19,920
than what we have in the county right
now. I truly do.

1252
01:28:20,520 --> 01:28:25,920
Might be less homes for me, but it's
better amenities,

1253
01:28:24,080 --> 01:28:29,360
bigger central park,
nice boutique retail

1254
01:28:27,720 --> 01:28:34,320
to tie into that. I think it becomes a
destination. I think it's better.

1255
01:28:31,680 --> 01:28:38,160
And I'm willing to pay $4,800 a lot more
and come into the city to do it.

1256
01:28:36,800 --> 01:28:43,400
Um
with that request of R1, R2S, R3S,

1257
01:28:41,480 --> 01:28:47,560
commercial and and
uh agricultural for the the home that's

1258
01:28:46,120 --> 01:28:51,760
that's staying.
Um

1259
01:28:48,680 --> 01:28:54,840
we request approval with conditions on
city council approval of development

1260
01:28:53,160 --> 01:29:00,200
agreement with the draft has has been
provided. Um

1261
01:28:57,600 --> 01:29:05,200
and suggested terms of that agreement.
Some of the concerns on R3S, R2S,

1262
01:29:02,920 --> 01:29:08,160
Patrick, once we do it, you can go just
you can you don't have to leave your

1263
01:29:06,160 --> 01:29:11,240
lots at at 7,500 square feet. You can go
do as many as you want. So, I'm going to

1264
01:29:09,360 --> 01:29:15,480
suggest in that agreement we'll put our
money where our mouth is and we will

1265
01:29:13,600 --> 01:29:19,120
restrict ourselves to exactly how many
lots we're presenting you today.

1266
01:29:17,520 --> 01:29:23,880
So, under no circumstance can I go
higher than that. Um

1267
01:29:21,640 --> 01:29:26,720
true R1, by the way, in in in the first,
you know, a year and a half ago as

1268
01:29:24,640 --> 01:29:31,000
mentioned, we we we showed we had a
presentation and showed how many lots I

1269
01:29:29,000 --> 01:29:34,160
could get on 300 acres with true R1. It
was 700.

1270
01:29:35,480 --> 01:29:40,280
So, we're asking for 409.
Um

1271
01:29:40,480 --> 01:29:46,600
we would like to restrict ourselves to a
7,500 square foot minimum lot size

1272
01:29:43,720 --> 01:29:50,480
because we know that R3S and R2S uh
allow smaller lots. So, we want we want

1273
01:29:48,880 --> 01:29:54,080
to restrict ourselves to that to make
sure you get the lot size of R1.

1274
01:29:54,320 --> 01:30:00,800
We will guarantee the 10-plus acre
central park in the community.

1275
01:29:58,720 --> 01:30:04,240
We will guarantee the amenity package
that is shown here, so you know I won't

1276
01:30:02,520 --> 01:30:06,720
deviate from what I'm showing you and
show you something and and go do

1277
01:30:05,360 --> 01:30:09,760
something different later, right? I know
you've been you've had some experiences

1278
01:30:08,640 --> 01:30:13,560
like that with developers and builders
in the past. And so, putting all this on

1279
01:30:11,560 --> 01:30:16,440
here is not who we are.
Um

1280
01:30:15,120 --> 01:30:20,200
the community will be encumbered by an
HOA and we'll guarantee that in writing.

1281
01:30:18,080 --> 01:30:24,240
I would have done it anyways. It needs
to be managed by an HOA and we are very

1282
01:30:22,440 --> 01:30:27,240
strict on that. Um
all the way down to the fence types. So,

1283
01:30:26,080 --> 01:30:30,360
you can't have a chain link fence then a
wooden fence then a chain You know what

1284
01:30:28,360 --> 01:30:34,200
I mean? We we're very very strict on
HOAs. So, we will make [snorts] sure

1285
01:30:31,600 --> 01:30:37,160
this is maintained through that. Um
we'll also offer a minimum of 18 ft

1286
01:30:35,920 --> 01:30:42,560
between house pads. So, one of the
concerns with I know R3S and R2S

1287
01:30:40,400 --> 01:30:44,800
you don't want this to be one of those
communities that I won't name the name

1288
01:30:43,800 --> 01:30:48,720
of the builder where you can drive down
385 and see those houses stacked right

1289
01:30:46,480 --> 01:30:53,720
on top of each other.
I know that. Um

1290
01:30:50,840 --> 01:30:57,400
your R1 required width between homes is
15 ft.

1291
01:30:56,240 --> 01:31:03,760
Those homes you're looking at are
anywhere between 10 to 12 ft.

1292
01:30:59,760 --> 01:31:03,760
We're going to offer 18 ft.

1293
01:31:04,680 --> 01:31:09,720
that you can
handcuff us to that I can't get out of

1294
01:31:08,280 --> 01:31:13,480
in the development agreement, which is
greater than your R1 width.

1295
01:31:12,000 --> 01:31:17,000
It's 15.
I'm offering more.

1296
01:31:15,040 --> 01:31:20,680
Um
and then covenants and restrictions on

1297
01:31:19,000 --> 01:31:24,800
commercial use and type.
Um as I mentioned earlier, homes have to

1298
01:31:22,520 --> 01:31:28,440
come for commercial to come.
Commercial won't be built right away.

1299
01:31:27,120 --> 01:31:30,480
Homes have to come. They have to see the
rooftops so you're not going to get them

1300
01:31:29,600 --> 01:31:36,280
to come.
Um but those homes and rooftops will get

1301
01:31:32,880 --> 01:31:38,480
them to come for sure. Um
but

1302
01:31:37,280 --> 01:31:43,000
with that said, we don't want to just
build anything and honestly, it would

1303
01:31:39,520 --> 01:31:46,280
hurt me if I went and built retail that
wasn't attractive, right? That wasn't

1304
01:31:44,520 --> 01:31:50,920
what I'd call boutique retail, nice
restaurants, or a daycare, something

1305
01:31:47,920 --> 01:31:54,640
like that. If I built something that was
an eyesore right at the front of my

1306
01:31:52,480 --> 01:31:57,640
community entrance
doesn't help me

1307
01:31:55,760 --> 01:32:01,560
at all. And so, I'm going to show you
I'm earnest in that.

1308
01:31:59,120 --> 01:32:04,160
And within
the development agreement submitted, we

1309
01:32:02,920 --> 01:32:08,120
listed
a long list of items of what we cannot

1310
01:32:05,960 --> 01:32:10,960
do, even though it says in that zoning
that we can.

1311
01:32:09,360 --> 01:32:15,480
We'll take all this out, and honestly,
I'm open to adding to it.

1312
01:32:12,920 --> 01:32:19,520
Uh we we our goal is boutique retail
because it helps our community.

1313
01:32:17,400 --> 01:32:22,480
I have no reason to build anything else.
Um it ties in our community. It needs to

1314
01:32:21,400 --> 01:32:24,120
be nice.
Um

1315
01:32:23,328 --> 01:32:27,440
» [clears throat]
>> And so

1316
01:32:25,760 --> 01:32:32,480
with that
uh uh said,

1317
01:32:29,360 --> 01:32:35,960
that is our request for approval. Um
I can take you through the long view if

1318
01:32:34,880 --> 01:32:38,240
there's interest, or I can just stop
here.

1319
01:32:38,680 --> 01:32:44,440
» Questions from council.
Can Can we go back to the R1 elevation

1320
01:32:43,360 --> 01:32:46,760
slide? I think
>> Yes, sir.

1321
01:32:45,080 --> 01:32:50,720
» I think the question that some people
may have had is how you can fit that,

1322
01:32:48,320 --> 01:32:53,440
and I guess you're getting the some from
one lot, and

1323
01:32:52,240 --> 01:32:58,080
anyway, can you explain that?
>> Yes. Uh so, 53 2-ft [clears throat] on

1324
01:32:56,320 --> 01:33:01,360
75-ft wide.
Um

1325
01:32:59,240 --> 01:33:07,000
by the way, R1 is 70-ft wide, so you're
75, so you're wider than that. Um

1326
01:33:04,440 --> 01:33:09,520
so, that leaves you
with

1327
01:33:10,040 --> 01:33:17,880
What is that, Carl? It's 43? 23 ft?
Chemical engineer.

1328
01:33:16,384 --> 01:33:20,600
» [laughter]
>> 23 ft.

1329
01:33:19,840 --> 01:33:23,680
Um
so,

1330
01:33:21,920 --> 01:33:26,360
we said eight Your your your ordinance
is 15.

1331
01:33:26,640 --> 01:33:30,640
» 23 ft on both sides, but
>> No, it's

1332
01:33:29,240 --> 01:33:33,240
» Okay.
>> 23 total.

1333
01:33:31,600 --> 01:33:35,960
» Total.
>> Yeah.

1334
01:33:33,920 --> 01:33:41,520
» Distributed between the sides, what
would happen is one house would be

1335
01:33:38,800 --> 01:33:46,560
sitting 11 and 1/2 ft from the property
line. The next house on the other lot

1336
01:33:44,040 --> 01:33:50,720
would be sitting 11 and 1/2 ft from the
property line.

1337
01:33:48,280 --> 01:33:54,880
So, you'd have a combined 23 ft between
them, although it's not all on one lot,

1338
01:33:52,880 --> 01:33:58,920
and that would be and it it the house
could vary a little bit, you know, a

1339
01:33:57,320 --> 01:34:02,920
foot or two either way on the lot
depending on some things, but generally

1340
01:34:01,200 --> 01:34:08,800
you have a neighborhood where the
spacing between the adjacent houses is

1341
01:34:05,000 --> 01:34:08,800
23 ft on the average.

1342
01:34:10,094 --> 01:34:15,200
» [clears throat]
>> In that

1343
01:34:12,600 --> 01:34:21,080
» One thing we did as a company is we
always bought bigger lots to put our

1344
01:34:18,520 --> 01:34:24,760
houses on than our competitors did
because we liked

1345
01:34:22,600 --> 01:34:28,800
the larger lots and we felt like it
helped our neighborhoods hold their

1346
01:34:26,040 --> 01:34:31,760
values and that is one thing in a
neighborhood that's got a little more

1347
01:34:30,000 --> 01:34:35,760
space between the houses, they generally
do hold their value better.

1348
01:34:33,800 --> 01:34:41,720
» And and and once again
15 ft total is your R1 ordinance between

1349
01:34:39,720 --> 01:34:44,320
the homes, not from the house to the
property line, right?

1350
01:34:42,360 --> 01:34:47,400
» So like 7 and 1/2 ft to your fence,
basically.

1351
01:34:45,640 --> 01:34:50,080
That's your R1 zoning, right? And so
what I'm what I'm saying is we're bigger

1352
01:34:48,680 --> 01:34:53,240
than that, right? We're 23. So we're
bigger than R1's width.

1353
01:34:53,480 --> 01:34:58,280
» Mr. Mayor, I got several questions and
they're going to go to different people.

1354
01:34:56,880 --> 01:35:01,960
So if I could kind of run through my
questions

1355
01:34:59,760 --> 01:35:08,400
counsel, I'll yield to the floor later
to you guys.

1356
01:35:03,680 --> 01:35:13,440
Right now, our C3 allows for R3 inside
of a C3 by ordinance.

1357
01:35:11,520 --> 01:35:18,720
That was not taken into consideration to
my knowledge by planning commission.

1358
01:35:16,280 --> 01:35:25,360
So I'm asking our plan city planner and
city manager, what will need to be done

1359
01:35:22,240 --> 01:35:29,760
to prohibit at some point in time,
whether it's these current developers or

1360
01:35:27,480 --> 01:35:34,360
someone else later down the road, from
being able to go in there and put an R3

1361
01:35:32,120 --> 01:35:36,920
inside that C3
zone.

1362
01:35:38,000 --> 01:35:42,240
» The development agreement that they're
proposing

1363
01:35:40,280 --> 01:35:45,880
specifies
that as as one of the

1364
01:35:43,720 --> 01:35:49,200
» But that's only with this developer. If
they were to sell

1365
01:35:47,840 --> 01:35:56,120
that development agreement doesn't
necessarily carry to the next. So to me,

1366
01:35:52,920 --> 01:36:01,720
if the it could change. It can go to It
can go to court. It can change. I'm a

1367
01:35:58,320 --> 01:36:08,080
banker. It things can change, okay?
It's not guaranteed forever. It can

1368
01:36:04,560 --> 01:36:14,520
change. My question, why we going to go
against our ordinance before planning

1369
01:36:10,880 --> 01:36:19,880
commission and we as a council decide
not to leave that R3 inside of a C3?

1370
01:36:20,720 --> 01:36:27,160
» I'm confused. What's the
Convert the R3 C3 mean commercial?

1371
01:36:25,840 --> 01:36:29,920
» Commercial zone.
>> about the front

1372
01:36:28,040 --> 01:36:32,600
» The commercial zone, the red zone.
>> Okay.

1373
01:36:30,440 --> 01:36:40,880
» If for some reason they do not get
enough retail in there,

1374
01:36:35,440 --> 01:36:43,840
they can start putting R3s in there.
>> Well, they can't because they'll be

1375
01:36:42,200 --> 01:36:47,040
signing a development agreement. But,
you're saying someone else could buy it

1376
01:36:45,240 --> 01:36:50,480
from them and then do that.
>> Well,

1377
01:36:48,760 --> 01:36:54,400
I mean, that may be on that list of what
they won't do.

1378
01:36:52,640 --> 01:36:59,680
But, right now,
the ordinance allows for an R3 to be

1379
01:36:56,840 --> 01:37:03,120
built in a C3 zone.
>> Okay.

1380
01:37:01,320 --> 01:37:07,320
» With the development agreement
restricting

1381
01:37:04,400 --> 01:37:13,160
rental homes from doing that,
then in the meantime, we can go back

1382
01:37:10,000 --> 01:37:17,920
and review the C3 zoning and make
changes that need to be there to prevent

1383
01:37:15,200 --> 01:37:22,120
that from happening in the future.
>> Okay. Can we

1384
01:37:19,440 --> 01:37:26,360
Can that be done prior to our second
reading

1385
01:37:23,920 --> 01:37:29,680
or final approval? Because I I think
we're getting into a lot of

1386
01:37:27,360 --> 01:37:33,320
contingencies that do not need to be
there.

1387
01:37:30,720 --> 01:37:37,280
This is too big a deal for both them and
us.

1388
01:37:35,200 --> 01:37:40,400
And that is a big contingency in my
books.

1389
01:37:38,480 --> 01:37:46,640
Okay, that's first question that y'all
may need to think on for a minute.

1390
01:37:42,880 --> 01:37:50,840
At what point do you guys break even in
this project.

1391
01:37:49,280 --> 01:37:57,280
Break even.
Where you can start making profits.

1392
01:37:53,840 --> 01:38:01,320
How many homes will you have to build
to break even,

1393
01:37:59,200 --> 01:38:05,760
whether they're all ones or two s's or
three s's,

1394
01:38:03,480 --> 01:38:08,760
or even the commercial? At what point do
you break even?

1395
01:38:07,560 --> 01:38:12,800
» Do you want to say it again? Here's your
own problem, your mic.

1396
01:38:10,040 --> 01:38:12,800
» I can't

1397
01:38:13,640 --> 01:38:19,960
I can't break it down to an exact number
like 23 and a half percent,

1398
01:38:18,560 --> 01:38:24,320
but
it's a mistake to believe that we would

1399
01:38:22,680 --> 01:38:28,800
go in and develop
all this property at one time. We would

1400
01:38:27,560 --> 01:38:32,720
develop
some of the larger lots, some of the

1401
01:38:30,480 --> 01:38:37,120
medium lots, and some of the smaller
lots, so we would be selling

1402
01:38:34,920 --> 01:38:41,840
houses in three price points.
So, typically,

1403
01:38:39,000 --> 01:38:47,000
you want a neighborhood that pays off
for that section of the development at

1404
01:38:44,240 --> 01:38:52,240
about 65%. That's when you try to get
your land.

1405
01:38:48,240 --> 01:38:55,320
Maybe 70% is when the land's paid for,
but the individual houses that you would

1406
01:38:54,280 --> 01:38:58,240
buy
um

1407
01:38:56,440 --> 01:39:02,120
we would make the attempt would be to
make a profit on each house.

1408
01:39:00,960 --> 01:39:04,040
» Yeah, there's there's the development
side and the home building side, I would

1409
01:39:03,560 --> 01:39:08,640
say.
>> Right, I understand. Okay.

1410
01:39:06,000 --> 01:39:13,600
So, then that leads me to the question,
I I think I heard listening here say you

1411
01:39:11,800 --> 01:39:19,640
will not do the horizontal development,
you have another developer that would do

1412
01:39:16,280 --> 01:39:24,720
that part of the plan building.
>> property

1413
01:39:21,080 --> 01:39:29,000
through the years in multiple ways, and
we have developed some very large

1414
01:39:26,360 --> 01:39:33,640
subdivisions individually inside of the
companies that we've owned.

1415
01:39:31,280 --> 01:39:37,040
Um we have entered into partnerships.
Probably

1416
01:39:34,960 --> 01:39:41,640
um 2/3 of what we've developed we
partnered with other people and brought

1417
01:39:39,120 --> 01:39:48,160
them in for for for reasons.
and uh so um um

1418
01:39:45,120 --> 01:39:50,840
can't say exactly right now, but uh
um

1419
01:39:49,040 --> 01:39:57,240
» But that's important to us to kind of
know who we will be working with and

1420
01:39:54,800 --> 01:40:00,200
relying on to build to do all the
infrastructure. So

1421
01:39:58,560 --> 01:40:02,120
» Right now, plan is for us to build it.
That's the plan.

1422
01:40:00,560 --> 01:40:06,440
» So you will be able So based on the
numbers you shared with the planning

1423
01:40:03,520 --> 01:40:09,160
commission, there's a lot of money going
to flow out on the front end

1424
01:40:08,720 --> 01:40:13,280
» Yes, sir.
>> with the infrastructure built out.

1425
01:40:11,680 --> 01:40:15,600
» That's pretty typical on a development.
You know,

1426
01:40:14,080 --> 01:40:17,960
it's heavy on the front end.
Um and to clarify on the planning

1427
01:40:16,760 --> 01:40:23,200
commission numbers, so there was a
number given earlier that said I gave 30

1428
01:40:21,120 --> 01:40:28,000
million in infrastructure. So
that is 61,000 a lot. Okay? It did It

1429
01:40:25,880 --> 01:40:32,120
does It does not cost us 61,000 a lot to
develop the infrastructure. That's more

1430
01:40:29,760 --> 01:40:36,600
like 40 or 45. So on those numbers that
were given, they added 9 million in soft

1431
01:40:34,760 --> 01:40:40,360
costs to that
30 30 million number that was and

1432
01:40:38,560 --> 01:40:45,480
contingencies that was already in my
number.

1433
01:40:42,480 --> 01:40:50,600
» Okay. Y'all are too smart of gentlemen
not to done your spreadsheets and Excel

1434
01:40:48,000 --> 01:40:54,880
Excel spreadsheets. So you know, in the
very beginning when we met almost a year

1435
01:40:53,200 --> 01:40:57,560
and a half ago
in the boardroom across the way over

1436
01:40:56,560 --> 01:41:02,760
there,
I asked for a lot of things about

1437
01:40:59,880 --> 01:41:07,880
seeing profit and loss
balance sheets, and I never got them.

1438
01:41:05,080 --> 01:41:10,000
They were in the middle of the audit.
And

1439
01:41:08,880 --> 01:41:14,880
I never got them.
>> I think we did give it because a citizen

1440
01:41:12,200 --> 01:41:19,080
got a hold of it and spoke about it at
the planning commission of the county.

1441
01:41:17,840 --> 01:41:22,320
Um
>> I was told you were in the middle of the

1442
01:41:20,560 --> 01:41:26,120
audit and it wasn't any use till we got
through the audit to give them so we

1443
01:41:24,240 --> 01:41:28,520
could share that you we could have that
information.

1444
01:41:27,120 --> 01:41:31,080
» time, we we did get it I don't know
maybe it didn't land in your hands, but

1445
01:41:30,040 --> 01:41:33,280
I I we did send it to the city cuz
that's how the citizen got a hold of it

1446
01:41:32,280 --> 01:41:37,840
and shared it with the planning
commission in county. Um Um, and and

1447
01:41:36,120 --> 01:41:39,120
yes, that was our first 9-months of
operation.

1448
01:41:38,560 --> 01:41:42,040
» Right.
>> Business school

1449
01:41:40,360 --> 01:41:43,320
2 to 3 years.
>> Sure.

1450
01:41:42,280 --> 01:41:48,080
» 2 to 3 years in business is what
companies take to start up. Uh, some

1451
01:41:45,240 --> 01:41:51,760
take five. Uh, here in year two, this is
full second full year, we will profit.

1452
01:41:50,640 --> 01:41:55,480
Um, which is ahead of most.
>> Okay.

1453
01:41:52,360 --> 01:41:59,080
» Um, and Um, I don't have anything else
on that. But, uh, yes, sir. I mean, if

1454
01:41:57,360 --> 01:42:01,600
you didn't get out, I mean, I did send
send to the city.

1455
01:42:00,360 --> 01:42:02,960
Um, that's how that person got a hold of
it during the

1456
01:42:02,600 --> 01:42:05,280
» Okay.
>> planning commission. I I

1457
01:42:04,160 --> 01:42:07,560
Sorry, I
I don't I don't know.

1458
01:42:06,400 --> 01:42:10,680
» Can you clarify that?
>> Yeah.

1459
01:42:07,960 --> 01:42:13,840
» Those those were the first set that they
were working on with the auditors, and

1460
01:42:12,360 --> 01:42:16,640
that's when it went out to the county.
That information went to the county. At

1461
01:42:15,520 --> 01:42:20,200
that point,
I didn't ask for a second set of records

1462
01:42:18,680 --> 01:42:23,400
because
they were at the county at that point.

1463
01:42:22,760 --> 01:42:25,880
» Okay.
>> Can I ask you something?

1464
01:42:24,720 --> 01:42:29,240
You don't mind?
So, if you go back, can y'all hear

1465
01:42:27,900 --> 01:42:32,320
[clears throat] me okay?
Well, I thank y'all for coming.

1466
01:42:31,160 --> 01:42:35,560
Uh,
you know, it's

1467
01:42:33,640 --> 01:42:39,200
We got families just like y'all,
and we're not here to

1468
01:42:37,600 --> 01:42:43,160
have any problems. We're just here for
the future.

1469
01:42:40,520 --> 01:42:45,560
And I'm sure we're all living it now.
So, I I I

1470
01:42:45,640 --> 01:42:50,200
I guess y'all where you live and that's
your main goal.

1471
01:42:48,840 --> 01:42:52,720
It's just for
But,

1472
01:42:51,080 --> 01:42:58,040
what we are doing
a little bit different

1473
01:42:55,640 --> 01:43:01,840
is on on a lot of the developments you
see now,

1474
01:42:59,520 --> 01:43:07,040
they would take this and cut everything
out, uh, and bring it down to bare

1475
01:43:04,200 --> 01:43:10,200
bones, and you can see red dirt.
Okay?

1476
01:43:08,600 --> 01:43:12,280
We're not doing that.
>> That's right.

1477
01:43:10,480 --> 01:43:16,280
» It's a beautiful beautiful property back
here. So, everybody Earlier, they were

1478
01:43:14,680 --> 01:43:19,640
talking about, well,
you know, if you don't manage it, then

1479
01:43:17,960 --> 01:43:23,640
we're here, you're going to see nothing
but bad stuff.

1480
01:43:21,600 --> 01:43:27,360
So, how we're developing this starting
with

1481
01:43:24,720 --> 01:43:29,600
is in phases, like he said earlier. 1 2
3 to 5 phases.

1482
01:43:28,800 --> 01:43:32,640
» And it might take
>> 10 to 12 years.

1483
01:43:31,560 --> 01:43:37,160
» How long did it
take to develop?

1484
01:43:33,920 --> 01:43:41,640
» The reason we did the commercial
is because your city

1485
01:43:39,360 --> 01:43:46,160
asked us to work with them to bring
something nice retail or restaurant to

1486
01:43:44,400 --> 01:43:50,720
your area.
Because

1487
01:43:47,520 --> 01:43:55,160
we we already had a plan of close to 600
homes.

1488
01:43:52,560 --> 01:43:59,000
So, we worked with your city
you city people

1489
01:43:56,600 --> 01:44:02,000
to see what we could do here
to bring something nice

1490
01:44:02,240 --> 01:44:08,920
something that these people in the all
communities

1491
01:44:06,160 --> 01:44:12,440
something that a family could go in
not a vape shop

1492
01:44:10,600 --> 01:44:17,520
not a liquor store but something you
could take your little kid or grandkid.

1493
01:44:14,960 --> 01:44:21,720
But when we did this in phases
you know, all this right here your

1494
01:44:19,720 --> 01:44:23,920
timber and your
and

1495
01:44:22,480 --> 01:44:28,000
everything you see that's what we're
buying.

1496
01:44:25,760 --> 01:44:31,920
Only till you get to the to the fourth
and fifth of that this phase two. So, I

1497
01:44:30,400 --> 01:44:34,800
want you to understand, too. So, that
keeps your cost down.

1498
01:44:34,160 --> 01:44:37,640
» Yeah, we
>> says 30 million

1499
01:44:36,160 --> 01:44:40,560
» Yeah. So,
one one of the quotes earlier was that

1500
01:44:39,360 --> 01:44:43,360
we would have 20 million dollars in
funding outstanding we're paying

1501
01:44:41,560 --> 01:44:47,160
interest on. That's not how development
of this size works. Um you you divide

1502
01:44:45,880 --> 01:44:51,200
that into phases, right? Some some
builders do, right? They got a ton of

1503
01:44:48,840 --> 01:44:53,720
money and they're they're the big guys
and the big players and they'll come in

1504
01:44:52,360 --> 01:44:58,040
and just scorch earth, right? They'll
just blow everything out, right? But

1505
01:44:55,840 --> 01:45:02,320
look, I was in
Finance is what I did for him.

1506
01:45:00,400 --> 01:45:05,280
Make sure he uses money wisely. I I
handled all the relationships with the

1507
01:45:03,440 --> 01:45:09,480
bankers. That's what I did. Right? And I
and I got deals financed like this many

1508
01:45:07,600 --> 01:45:12,320
times over. Never had one not get
financed. Um but

1509
01:45:11,600 --> 01:45:14,440
» spending 30 million.
>> Yeah, but at the end of the day, it

1510
01:45:14,200 --> 01:45:18,840
would be
>> But at some point you will come close to

1511
01:45:16,520 --> 01:45:22,760
that number based on your projections
that you work with at this point in

1512
01:45:20,520 --> 01:45:26,520
time. That is a real number.
>> It is it is it is

1513
01:45:24,360 --> 01:45:27,840
» be spent day one, but at some point But
it

1514
01:45:26,680 --> 01:45:29,920
» be outstanding at one
>> Right. That's all I'm saying.

1515
01:45:28,680 --> 01:45:33,960
» Yeah, yeah, yeah. It'll be
>> Divide that into five, right? And that's

1516
01:45:31,760 --> 01:45:39,040
probably at any given time maybe what's
outstanding, but yeah, yes, sir. Yeah.

1517
01:45:36,360 --> 01:45:42,280
» All right. And I understand why our city
staff may have talked about the need for

1518
01:45:41,000 --> 01:45:49,640
commercial,
but at the same time, we have 25

1519
01:45:45,160 --> 01:45:54,520
buildings downtown empty today.
And that's a scary thought. Now, we just

1520
01:45:51,680 --> 01:45:57,800
had our first meeting last week
No.

1521
01:45:54,880 --> 01:46:01,680
» Yeah, last week to talk about how can we
revitalize our downtown and not let it

1522
01:46:00,920 --> 01:46:05,360
die.
>> Yes, sir.

1523
01:46:02,320 --> 01:46:10,360
» But if we start taking a lot more retail
out there or out there, which is going

1524
01:46:08,000 --> 01:46:11,720
to happen with the baseball complex and
things of that,

1525
01:46:11,160 --> 01:46:17,840
» Yes, sir.
>> we've got to figure out a way to keep

1526
01:46:13,520 --> 01:46:21,600
our downtown or we lose that quality
that we you know,

1527
01:46:19,320 --> 01:46:25,080
» I agree, and I think
490 homes is a way that you revitalize

1528
01:46:23,760 --> 01:46:29,880
that, right? Getting people there. And
our site won't just rob that, right?

1529
01:46:27,280 --> 01:46:33,920
We're We're It's not like that's the
entire downtown of retail, right? I

1530
01:46:31,720 --> 01:46:36,880
mean, it you know, it's it will these
people are not far from downtown.

1531
01:46:35,360 --> 01:46:42,160
They'll drive down there and utilize it.
It'll help, hopefully, with that, right?

1532
01:46:38,720 --> 01:46:47,360
» But it it is a concern we've got to have
to think about whether, you know,

1533
01:46:44,480 --> 01:46:51,960
because it's new, it's fresh, it's
vibrant looking versus what we have

1534
01:46:49,600 --> 01:46:56,760
right now downtown is not. Now,
>> One other consideration for that is that

1535
01:46:53,880 --> 01:47:00,520
um as far as the commercial goes,
that will not be built until later in

1536
01:46:59,440 --> 01:47:03,960
the project. You're going to get a lot
of homes in that really will service

1537
01:47:02,320 --> 01:47:08,280
your downtown for years and years and
years without any of that competition.

1538
01:47:06,720 --> 01:47:11,600
Um and then at the point which this it
gets further in, that's when those

1539
01:47:10,120 --> 01:47:15,520
retailers will commit and say, "Okay,
well, there's enough people that can go,

1540
01:47:13,440 --> 01:47:19,040
you know, frequent downtown, but then
now also support this." And they'll do

1541
01:47:17,160 --> 01:47:23,960
that math. Like, they won't come to us
if if it if it's not supported. Um and

1542
01:47:22,440 --> 01:47:27,920
and we just thought it was relevant
certain eagles right there. Right, it's

1543
01:47:26,080 --> 01:47:32,080
it's that area is designated a
commercial corridor in the comp plan and

1544
01:47:30,640 --> 01:47:34,600
and so we just thought maybe hey, this
is a good

1545
01:47:33,160 --> 01:47:37,920
good what If we were going to tie in, we
tie in there. It just felt that's what

1546
01:47:37,000 --> 01:47:43,120
for us that's why we put it there.
>> We had volunteered our services I did to

1547
01:47:40,240 --> 01:47:46,360
your city to help grow uh do the theater
downtown.

1548
01:47:44,360 --> 01:47:53,120
I I did do that.
>> The comprehensive plan you have quoted

1549
01:47:49,760 --> 01:47:55,520
from and worked with, is that our 2019
plan or is that the draft?

1550
01:47:54,880 --> 01:47:57,360
» draft.
>> Yes, sir.

1551
01:47:55,720 --> 01:48:02,640
» Okay, which we have not been given a
copy of. So, we do not have reference to

1552
01:48:00,640 --> 01:48:05,000
what you've been working with.
>> Okay.

1553
01:48:03,080 --> 01:48:08,120
» Um, and yeah.
Of course, planning commission still

1554
01:48:06,520 --> 01:48:09,800
waiting on receipt.
>> Huh?

1555
01:48:08,440 --> 01:48:12,840
» We have received it.
>> We have electronically but not

1556
01:48:11,880 --> 01:48:14,160
» As a group.
>> As a group.

1557
01:48:13,560 --> 01:48:17,160
» Okay.
>> Yeah.

1558
01:48:15,200 --> 01:48:19,600
They mean with that.
Um

1559
01:48:20,720 --> 01:48:27,440
Based on your projections of what you
see over a course of time.

1560
01:48:28,480 --> 01:48:34,960
We've talked a lot about oh, it's going
to be great. The tax revenue will be

1561
01:48:32,800 --> 01:48:40,920
fantastic for our city because the
impact fees are very designated and very

1562
01:48:37,880 --> 01:48:44,520
specific. We need them desperately. But
a comment was made in the planning

1563
01:48:42,440 --> 01:48:47,800
commission the city was broke. We are
not broke.

1564
01:48:46,040 --> 01:48:52,160
I just want to clarify that right now.
Could we use a lot more money?

1565
01:48:49,200 --> 01:48:56,320
Absolutely. Could we do more things, you
know, yes, absolutely. But we also know

1566
01:48:54,800 --> 01:49:00,480
we're going to have to build more
another fire substation, maybe two at

1567
01:48:58,560 --> 01:49:06,080
some point. We may need another fire
truck. That's what things and will be

1568
01:49:03,480 --> 01:49:12,440
used with those impact fees.
Based on your schedule of building

1569
01:49:10,080 --> 01:49:16,920
and I realize that's a a guessing number
right now.

1570
01:49:14,000 --> 01:49:22,520
But for us to recognize
property tax revenues at what point you

1571
01:49:20,640 --> 01:49:27,200
think we're going to see significant
[clears throat] dollars coming in

1572
01:49:25,440 --> 01:49:30,680
that we can then use in our operating
budget.

1573
01:49:27,800 --> 01:49:35,760
» Yes, sir. Um well, you know,
I would give it every bit

1574
01:49:33,640 --> 01:49:39,800
to to to get to building homes, right?
From where we stand today, and some of

1575
01:49:37,960 --> 01:49:42,600
that is dependent on obviously we've got
to create a full set of construction

1576
01:49:41,320 --> 01:49:45,520
drawings. That's got to go back to
planning and your staff has to review

1577
01:49:43,960 --> 01:49:48,640
it. There's all kinds of things that
y'all will have control over, right? And

1578
01:49:47,440 --> 01:49:51,840
the city that's another good thing too
here being with y'all versus the county

1579
01:49:50,200 --> 01:49:54,840
is like gives you that control to take
to have all those reviews and and

1580
01:49:53,480 --> 01:49:57,120
address some questions that were asked,
which were good questions.

1581
01:49:56,520 --> 01:50:00,440
Um
you know, I every bit of two every bit

1582
01:49:58,960 --> 01:50:05,080
of two years if not, you know, your two
to three to get the homes started.

1583
01:50:02,920 --> 01:50:08,760
Um you know, and then
from there,

1584
01:50:06,320 --> 01:50:12,520
um you know, you're going to run,
you know,

1585
01:50:09,680 --> 01:50:15,480
every I'd I'd say another I mean, how
many homes you're looking for

1586
01:50:14,200 --> 01:50:18,800
to get to you the revenue you're looking
for or you just want all of it? How long

1587
01:50:17,280 --> 01:50:21,760
» No, I'm just wondering how much, you
know, would be a a really

1588
01:50:20,880 --> 01:50:25,360
a
correct and more accurate number to use

1589
01:50:24,280 --> 01:50:27,960
» At least another
>> financial planning.

1590
01:50:26,520 --> 01:50:30,720
» I mean, to get to 100 homes, you're at
least another two or three years

1591
01:50:29,640 --> 01:50:33,400
depending on market. Right now, the
market's slow. And I'm going to that's a

1592
01:50:32,160 --> 01:50:36,280
national news. Everybody knows it,
right? You know, if you underwrite a

1593
01:50:34,480 --> 01:50:40,320
project right now, you're under writing
at the dip, right? And it's slow. If it

1594
01:50:38,320 --> 01:50:43,760
turns back up, that number could go
faster, right? And so, I mean, standing

1595
01:50:42,040 --> 01:50:46,920
right here right now with what I know
you're I think you're probably everybody

1596
01:50:45,120 --> 01:50:51,440
three years get to 100 homes. That's
that's solid revenue to me.

1597
01:50:49,880 --> 01:50:55,586
You know, I'm I'm not
that's not my area of expertise, but

1598
01:50:53,566 --> 01:50:55,586
» [laughter]

1599
01:50:57,240 --> 01:51:01,520
» Danny, you getting close?
>> Yeah, I'm finished.

1600
01:51:00,440 --> 01:51:05,000
» All right.
I'm like Danny, I'm going to be here a

1601
01:51:02,920 --> 01:51:07,000
little bit, so um
some of this going to be just

1602
01:51:05,880 --> 01:51:12,360
statements, some of it's going to be
questions. I don't need deep

1603
01:51:09,640 --> 01:51:16,360
in-depth explanation. You said hired you
used to to tell it city utilities. will

1604
01:51:15,160 --> 01:51:20,160
help our rates." I've asked that
question before. Our utility rates will

1605
01:51:18,080 --> 01:51:25,960
not go down, no matter how many houses
we get. You said there's 18 ft between

1606
01:51:22,840 --> 01:51:29,760
houses. There is no house in Mary Oaks
that is 18 ft apart. They're right up

1607
01:51:27,720 --> 01:51:34,360
there. I deliver their mail.
90% of them are up there. So, that is

1608
01:51:32,400 --> 01:51:39,000
not so. Um
um my question, I don't need to answer,

1609
01:51:36,600 --> 01:51:44,880
why aren't we going against the county?
And this is a question. Y'all came to

1610
01:51:41,080 --> 01:51:48,640
us, we approved y'alls a R1.
We give y'all an opportunity. Y'all went

1611
01:51:47,080 --> 01:51:51,840
to the county, y'all did not like our
R1. Why did you go to the county?

1612
01:51:50,600 --> 01:51:55,800
Because you didn't like the county, so
you come back to us.

1613
01:51:53,920 --> 01:52:01,080
» So, we got We went back to the county
and what we presented was R1.

1614
01:51:58,800 --> 01:52:04,680
Well, it was R2, R3 back then, but
effectively we're looking for R1, R2s,

1615
01:52:03,200 --> 01:52:10,840
R3s.
Um and so, that was not

1616
01:52:07,360 --> 01:52:15,720
agreed upon. Um once again, I think it
doesn't go with the comp plan to build

1617
01:52:13,680 --> 01:52:19,360
500 homes of the same type over and over
again. Uh comp plan

1618
01:52:17,360 --> 01:52:22,560
clearly does not state that that's your
goal.

1619
01:52:20,520 --> 01:52:27,120
Um it's not our goal, either.
Uh let's offer homes in a nice

1620
01:52:24,760 --> 01:52:30,480
neighborhood to multiple buyer types and
multiple people. I think that the the

1621
01:52:29,240 --> 01:52:32,720
emergency services folks and the
teachers and everything matter.

1622
01:52:32,200 --> 01:52:33,800
» All right.
>> Right? They should be able to live in

1623
01:52:33,400 --> 01:52:37,880
that neighborhood.
>> that. Um

1624
01:52:34,880 --> 01:52:42,800
the next one was like you um
We did agree to all R1. You said we want

1625
01:52:39,960 --> 01:52:45,840
multiple. No, we did not agree to R1,
R2, R3. So, no, we did not agree to

1626
01:52:44,680 --> 01:52:48,960
multiple.
So, um

1627
01:52:47,720 --> 01:52:53,200
And y'all didn't like that, that's why
y'all went to the county and came back.

1628
01:52:51,200 --> 01:52:56,200
As you can see, I'm not a BS, excuse me.
Um

1629
01:52:54,360 --> 01:52:58,080
You said the width lot for R1 the
requirement is 70.

1630
01:52:57,760 --> 01:53:00,960
» That's right.
>> You're saying if you're going to go

1631
01:52:59,160 --> 01:53:05,520
back, you're only going to make it 50.
That does not meet R1 requirement.

1632
01:53:04,160 --> 01:53:07,040
Um
>> Is that a question or is that what

1633
01:53:06,480 --> 01:53:09,200
you're saying?
>> Okay. Um

1634
01:53:07,760 --> 01:53:12,200
» Is that a question or
>> And the

1635
01:53:10,440 --> 01:53:16,440
» you said, "Okay, so we're actually the
county is in litigation right now

1636
01:53:14,840 --> 01:53:20,680
addressing this matter." I don't
understand why we're even addressing it

1637
01:53:18,360 --> 01:53:26,320
until that gets taken care of.
Everybody in here, I live in a trailer.

1638
01:53:23,280 --> 01:53:31,200
Not ashamed of it. Ain't nobody in here
out here live in a mobile home.

1639
01:53:28,760 --> 01:53:36,280
Um not ashamed of it. Um but would
anybody else want anybody on this board

1640
01:53:33,560 --> 01:53:41,120
want this in their subdivision?
Does any of y'all live in a subdivision?

1641
01:53:39,800 --> 01:53:45,000
Um
Uh and I don't I don't like being feel

1642
01:53:43,600 --> 01:53:48,760
like we're being pressured. You got two
times in this thing that says

1643
01:53:47,760 --> 01:53:52,880
um
you said uh well, first you said it was

1644
01:53:50,480 --> 01:53:56,400
previously approved by the county, which
it was not. It was shot down.

1645
01:53:55,320 --> 01:53:59,920
Um
and then

1646
01:53:57,880 --> 01:54:03,920
um
in this thing you said, "If the property

1647
01:54:01,760 --> 01:54:07,960
is not annexed into the city, the
property should be developed in Lawrence

1648
01:54:05,880 --> 01:54:12,200
County development standards."
Once again, you mentioned that again.

1649
01:54:10,520 --> 01:54:16,720
"If the site is not annexed into the
city limits, the development will occur

1650
01:54:14,800 --> 01:54:21,120
prob- probably with more lots that is
currently being proposed here. If and

1651
01:54:19,120 --> 01:54:26,080
not annexed, the city is obligated to
provide services like fire and police."

1652
01:54:24,120 --> 01:54:30,160
So, basically you give us two ultimatums
that if we don't accept it, you're going

1653
01:54:28,200 --> 01:54:33,320
to the county anyway. So, you're pushing
us. You went to the county, but you came

1654
01:54:31,880 --> 01:54:38,360
back.
>> So, let me answer the question. So, I

1655
01:54:35,720 --> 01:54:42,960
with that, I was asked a question
um

1656
01:54:39,760 --> 01:54:47,040
directly of "What happens if this is
denied?" I was asked that question. I

1657
01:54:44,560 --> 01:54:50,520
said, "Well, my answer to that, you can
look back at the video. My answer to

1658
01:54:48,600 --> 01:54:53,560
that was
well,

1659
01:54:51,760 --> 01:54:57,200
I'd rather not be penned into a corner
and have to do that. I'm bringing

1660
01:54:55,600 --> 01:55:02,800
something that I think is better here.
It's less lots, it has better amenities

1661
01:54:59,280 --> 01:55:07,000
to the city, it gives city impact fees.
But we are approved in the county. I

1662
01:55:04,680 --> 01:55:11,440
have a judge order that states it and
yes, anyone on earth can appeal a

1663
01:55:08,880 --> 01:55:16,200
decision. There are inmates on death row
that appeal decisions. Do Does that make

1664
01:55:13,160 --> 01:55:20,440
them correct? No. And I have our
attorney here. If anybody want Well, if

1665
01:55:17,640 --> 01:55:20,440
anybody wants

1666
01:55:21,160 --> 01:55:25,240
» We have an approved site plan. So, if
anybody wants He was attorney on the

1667
01:55:23,960 --> 01:55:30,080
case. If you have any questions on the
appeal itself, happy to have him answer

1668
01:55:27,280 --> 01:55:34,920
them. Look, we have a signed order by a
judge that agreed with us on three

1669
01:55:32,840 --> 01:55:39,440
counts. I've never in my career seen a
case won on three counts where the

1670
01:55:36,840 --> 01:55:42,160
municipality is hard enough to get one.
Three.

1671
01:55:40,440 --> 01:55:46,040
It There is
If there's 10% of appeals in the United

1672
01:55:44,320 --> 01:55:51,000
States that get approved and this one
has a less percent chance of that.

1673
01:55:49,080 --> 01:55:53,840
I've seen these.
And if you want

1674
01:55:52,360 --> 01:55:57,480
comments from our attorney who's on the
case, sitting in that courtroom.

1675
01:55:55,760 --> 01:55:59,400
I mean, would y'all like him to speak on
it?

1676
01:55:58,360 --> 01:56:04,920
» I have some questions for him.
>> Well, I got one more question and I'm

1677
01:56:01,840 --> 01:56:09,120
done with the BS. Um
Um

1678
01:56:06,880 --> 01:56:13,840
This property, he's I don't see him here
sitting here, but somebody has offered

1679
01:56:11,240 --> 01:56:17,640
the same amount of money to Mr. Wyman or
whoever owns this land

1680
01:56:15,800 --> 01:56:20,760
as y'all. But they're basically saying
his money ain't no good. So, there's

1681
01:56:19,560 --> 01:56:25,440
something
behind the scenes if this guy is wanting

1682
01:56:23,080 --> 01:56:30,640
to purchase for the exact same price.
There's something behind the scenes.

1683
01:56:27,360 --> 01:56:30,640
» It would be a contract.

1684
01:56:31,200 --> 01:56:35,760
» Money talks.
>> That's That's Well, no, I mean, a

1685
01:56:33,480 --> 01:56:39,080
legally binding contract, which we are
out of due diligence on and we are

1686
01:56:37,240 --> 01:56:41,640
buying the property. So, no, no one else
is going to buy the property. I'm going

1687
01:56:40,680 --> 01:56:44,560
to own it.
We've already come out of due diligence.

1688
01:56:42,920 --> 01:56:49,400
We've already let our money go hard. We
are buying the property. We are going to

1689
01:56:46,800 --> 01:56:49,400
develop it.

1690
01:56:49,560 --> 01:56:54,880
I mean, just being honest.
>> He said they're going to develop. Y'all

1691
01:56:52,240 --> 01:57:00,520
heard it. Go Kirkwood. I'm done.
>> No, no, if I can follow that, thank you.

1692
01:56:57,760 --> 01:57:03,520
I just have a question. quick question.
Sure.

1693
01:57:01,200 --> 01:57:07,280
» to address some of the comments that the
young lady made here.

1694
01:57:05,400 --> 01:57:10,960
And she was asking, why do we want the
R3 zoning before we can do it in our

1695
01:57:09,360 --> 01:57:15,960
lot?
When I started building houses 40 years

1696
01:57:13,440 --> 01:57:22,440
ago, we started building the small lot
was 100 ft wide, and people built on big

1697
01:57:19,520 --> 01:57:27,680
lots, we used septic tanks, and the lot
was a smaller part of the price of the

1698
01:57:25,000 --> 01:57:34,040
house. Over the years,
lots have become a much more expensive

1699
01:57:30,880 --> 01:57:38,320
part of the house. The impact fees, the
sewer, the water have have risen and

1700
01:57:37,080 --> 01:57:44,360
risen
now to where lots are

1701
01:57:41,320 --> 01:57:48,680
of the sales price of the house 25%.
If you take that back to the raw numbers

1702
01:57:46,960 --> 01:57:54,040
of building a house,
and we're just talking about sticks and

1703
01:57:50,680 --> 01:57:59,680
bricks and labor, a lot is really more
like 35-40% of the cost of the house.

1704
01:57:57,200 --> 01:58:03,880
It's the builder's response
to the change in the economics of of the

1705
01:58:02,720 --> 01:58:07,320
nation
to build a smaller lot so they can build

1706
01:58:05,920 --> 01:58:11,320
houses
for people.

1707
01:58:08,760 --> 01:58:16,760
And we all know that the the pyramid of
people buying houses is much bigger at

1708
01:58:15,480 --> 01:58:22,400
the bottom
than it is at the top. You have the

1709
01:58:18,480 --> 01:58:28,560
wealthy individuals that right now in
Greenville are buying houses on acre

1710
01:58:25,640 --> 01:58:31,920
lots that are 4,500 sq ft that sell for
over a million dollars.

1711
01:58:30,560 --> 01:58:36,680
But
and I'm on the the South Carolina Board

1712
01:58:34,400 --> 01:58:40,160
of Housing Finance and Development.
We deal

1713
01:58:38,000 --> 01:58:44,640
with affordable housing all the time.
There is a huge pool of buyers that need

1714
01:58:43,040 --> 01:58:47,680
to be thought about, and I'm not talking
about

1715
01:58:45,760 --> 01:58:51,360
subsidized housing. I'm talking about
your firemen, your teachers,

1716
01:58:49,840 --> 01:58:55,720
people
that make the 45,000 and their wife

1717
01:58:53,520 --> 01:59:01,560
makes 45,000. They want to buy a nice
house, but to get on a lot that they can

1718
01:58:59,120 --> 01:59:05,120
afford for a house that's
275,000,

1719
01:59:03,120 --> 01:59:11,600
325,000,
we need to have the small lot because if

1720
01:59:08,360 --> 01:59:17,800
we were developing lots that were 120 ft
wide now, we would be talking about 120,

1721
01:59:15,160 --> 01:59:21,560
150,000 dollars to develop those lots by
the time we could develop them and mark

1722
01:59:20,160 --> 01:59:25,920
them up and
get them to the market. Then we'd be

1723
01:59:23,000 --> 01:59:32,480
talking about
600,000, 700,000 dollar houses.

1724
01:59:29,560 --> 01:59:35,400
And your buying pool in Clinton for that
is

1725
01:59:33,720 --> 01:59:39,400
small.
So we're we're trying to provide housing

1726
01:59:38,080 --> 01:59:41,600
for people
for the average person that lives

1727
01:59:40,847 --> 01:59:45,480
[clears throat] in Clinton.
>> Just coming to what you said, R2 and R3,

1728
01:59:44,120 --> 01:59:49,760
we have
anywhere the numbers keep changing

1729
01:59:47,360 --> 01:59:55,320
anywhere from between 1,200 and 1,900
homes proposed already at that level

1730
01:59:52,520 --> 02:00:00,720
that are not R1. So that's why from this
level we're trying to get all R1 there

1731
01:59:57,640 --> 02:00:05,040
because the 1,900, 1,200 homes
are already R2, R3. We've got plenty of

1732
02:00:03,720 --> 02:00:08,120
R2 and R3 going up.
>> And I think we're giving you a good mix.

1733
02:00:06,880 --> 02:00:14,360
You know, I know that over and over
again 2,200 homes in the pipeline was

1734
02:00:11,000 --> 02:00:17,520
mentioned in planning and and really
number one, those aren't getting all

1735
02:00:15,480 --> 02:00:20,960
eaten in a year. We know that if you've
been through development and you know,

1736
02:00:19,200 --> 02:00:25,320
small chunk of that a year. So it's not
really contributing 2,200 in a year. Um

1737
02:00:23,680 --> 02:00:30,040
the other part is in the state of South
Carolina

1738
02:00:26,920 --> 02:00:33,640
currently is short almost 90 to 100,000
homes.

1739
02:00:32,120 --> 02:00:36,440
2,200 homes ain't going to be a drop in
that bucket.

1740
02:00:34,840 --> 02:00:38,880
And and believe me, everywhere in the
state

1741
02:00:37,680 --> 02:00:42,000
is growing. You're seeing it. Your
industrial park is coming here. You got

1742
02:00:40,640 --> 02:00:47,840
the baseball field coming here. This is
the large This is the fastest, highest

1743
02:00:44,640 --> 02:00:52,440
influx state in the nation right now.
Unless we want to

1744
02:00:49,760 --> 02:00:54,800
put up walls, that's not stopping.
>> Yep.

1745
02:00:53,280 --> 02:00:58,640
» And right now the state is short 90 to
100,000 homes.

1746
02:00:57,200 --> 02:01:02,240
And that's data from the HBA happy
share.

1747
02:00:59,480 --> 02:01:05,240
» Okay, let's go to Mr. Kirkendall.
So,

1748
02:01:03,640 --> 02:01:08,960
I'm just looking at some of the
litigation information that you've got

1749
02:01:07,200 --> 02:01:11,560
going on right now.
And this is no this is no this is

1750
02:01:10,583 --> 02:01:12,800
[clears throat] lawyer question right
now.

1751
02:01:11,680 --> 02:01:16,400
» Okay. All right.
>> But I was surprised to see that you've

1752
02:01:14,440 --> 02:01:21,240
got Bush River Sporting Clays and
Properties as a partner.

1753
02:01:18,720 --> 02:01:24,520
» Seller. No, sir. That's the seller.
>> Oh, it's the seller.

1754
02:01:22,040 --> 02:01:27,280
» Seller. They were on the case. They were
an interested party in the case. Yes,

1755
02:01:26,200 --> 02:01:30,080
sir. Just cuz they were the seller and
they were being impacted by the

1756
02:01:28,280 --> 02:01:32,920
decision, too. So, they decided to sign
on. Yes, sir.

1757
02:01:31,400 --> 02:01:36,200
Yes, sir.
>> That's all we have.

1758
02:01:34,840 --> 02:01:40,160
Mr. Smith.
>> Um a few minutes ago you said that you

1759
02:01:38,720 --> 02:01:42,880
offered to help with the downtown
revitalization. Can you say I haven't

1760
02:01:42,200 --> 02:01:46,800
heard that?
>> Yes, sir.

1761
02:01:44,600 --> 02:01:50,080
He was talking about the empty buildings
and stuff.

1762
02:01:47,960 --> 02:01:54,560
And I told him first asked you all had
an economic development group, you know,

1763
02:01:52,000 --> 02:02:00,320
inside the city or town.
And they are everything. And I told him

1764
02:01:57,840 --> 02:02:02,960
that I did would not mind meeting with
them

1765
02:02:01,240 --> 02:02:06,400
or other business people and see if we
could

1766
02:02:03,840 --> 02:02:11,840
get someone in those places. Just like I
don't mind meeting with Ingles when we

1767
02:02:09,800 --> 02:02:15,600
start things down there to see if Ingles
would upgrade y'all's Ingles down there.

1768
02:02:14,360 --> 02:02:18,720
You know, because Ingles don't want
another

1769
02:02:16,560 --> 02:02:22,440
another grocery store anywhere, you
know.

1770
02:02:19,720 --> 02:02:25,640
And we think with this coming and
talking to Ingles they would do that for

1771
02:02:24,160 --> 02:02:30,160
y'all. I would think.
Um you know, but I don't mind like I

1772
02:02:28,520 --> 02:02:35,200
said, every one of y'all can have my
phone number, but I don't mind helping

1773
02:02:32,240 --> 02:02:40,080
y'all try to bring some industry some
restaurants or or businesses in. More

1774
02:02:37,920 --> 02:02:44,080
than happy to do that at no cost right
now. I told him I'd be more happy to

1775
02:02:42,120 --> 02:02:47,960
meet with him and help him.
>> And he did see each day that he's doing

1776
02:02:46,160 --> 02:02:51,360
and has done that in Greenwood and South
side Greenwood cuz that's I mean you you

1777
02:02:49,840 --> 02:02:54,600
could be a better now, but that's an
area that's been largely neglected in

1778
02:02:53,200 --> 02:02:59,880
Greenwood for years, right?
>> So, in Greenwood, which we had 100%

1779
02:02:56,880 --> 02:03:02,880
support, hadn't had anybody upset,
uh

1780
02:03:01,000 --> 02:03:06,120
is that we're
in South end of Greenwood, which I live

1781
02:03:04,680 --> 02:03:10,240
there. Uh
and we've never had anything like our

1782
02:03:08,360 --> 02:03:14,000
neighbors on North end or East end or
West end.

1783
02:03:11,320 --> 02:03:18,920
So, we're finally bringing restaurants
down there uh

1784
02:03:15,720 --> 02:03:24,280
and and other aspects of businesses
along with some homes as well, but we

1785
02:03:21,880 --> 02:03:28,120
need those homes to get the businesses.
Now, we're starting to do a couple of

1786
02:03:26,160 --> 02:03:34,240
those businesses soon uh before the
homes get built. Uh but uh but people

1787
02:03:31,560 --> 02:03:39,400
are thankful for it. And and that's why
I really I mean I respect him. I mean I

1788
02:03:36,320 --> 02:03:42,960
really do for coming here. But, we'll do
you know, I've offered I think they'll

1789
02:03:41,120 --> 02:03:47,080
tell you I've offered my hand if
anything I can help y'all with

1790
02:03:45,240 --> 02:03:50,960
you know, down here. Plus, it's a
possibility we could look for some

1791
02:03:48,600 --> 02:03:55,720
grants too and work with y'all uh trying
to get those places filled, especially

1792
02:03:53,360 --> 02:04:00,280
since you got homes coming here.
You know, all over the 2,000 homes.

1793
02:03:57,560 --> 02:04:04,800
» And he and I also offered happy to have
community meeting and get feedback on

1794
02:04:02,680 --> 02:04:07,920
commercial or different elements. Happy
to do that. We we have met with some

1795
02:04:05,960 --> 02:04:11,880
citizens, but I mean I'm happy to have a
community community meeting here that.

1796
02:04:09,840 --> 02:04:16,400
Um I mean there's not not every builder
and every developer's going to do that.

1797
02:04:13,960 --> 02:04:19,520
Right? But, we're the local builder.
We did.

1798
02:04:17,040 --> 02:04:23,120
» Okay, let's jump in to Mr. Smith.
>> Uh Mr. Wham, are you

1799
02:04:21,440 --> 02:04:25,240
are you knowledgeable about the county
process? Could I ask you a couple

1800
02:04:24,400 --> 02:04:30,080
questions about that?
>> A little bit. Yes.

1801
02:04:26,400 --> 02:04:33,040
» Okay. Um so, when we if we have
something already in the city and the

1802
02:04:31,520 --> 02:04:36,240
and a developer comes and wants to build
it up, it goes to planning commission,

1803
02:04:34,360 --> 02:04:40,960
they make a recommendation, and then we
vote on whether we to approve it or not.

1804
02:04:38,760 --> 02:04:46,040
How is that the same or different from
how that process happens in the county?

1805
02:04:44,360 --> 02:04:50,800
» It's a little different. Um
there's similarities, but uh the county

1806
02:04:48,880 --> 02:04:53,840
has I think you you may have read it in
that order.

1807
02:04:52,640 --> 02:04:57,160
They have what's called the technical
review committee.

1808
02:04:55,360 --> 02:04:59,680
Which is more of a I'd say the county's
approaches maybe more administrative.

1809
02:04:58,680 --> 02:05:01,080
Y'all been through it, maybe you can
comment on that.

1810
02:05:00,680 --> 02:05:02,080
» Yes sir.
>> Um

1811
02:05:01,440 --> 02:05:05,280
» The TRC.
>> Where the TRC could have actually

1812
02:05:03,560 --> 02:05:08,520
approved
Well, let me back up.

1813
02:05:07,160 --> 02:05:12,680
That is not the case anymore. I
understand the county has changed that

1814
02:05:10,040 --> 02:05:16,920
in large part because of
what happened with this development. So,

1815
02:05:14,760 --> 02:05:22,106
um the ordinance before said that
um either the TRC

1816
02:05:20,240 --> 02:05:25,120
uh could approve of plat of
[clears throat]

1817
02:05:22,720 --> 02:05:29,160
subdivision plan or the planning
commission uh and or the planning

1818
02:05:26,960 --> 02:05:34,160
commission. So, it left it open so that
the TRC could actually approve that plan

1819
02:05:32,920 --> 02:05:36,880
without going to the planning
commission. And that's actually what

1820
02:05:35,200 --> 02:05:38,120
happened, which is actually why they won
the

1821
02:05:37,520 --> 02:05:42,400
» Mhm.
>> lawsuit is because

1822
02:05:40,560 --> 02:05:45,520
they had vested rights. The TRC had
approved it, that was

1823
02:05:44,040 --> 02:05:48,720
that was correct
most likely under the county ordinance

1824
02:05:47,040 --> 02:05:51,560
at the time. Again, the county has has
shifted. I think you probably have to

1825
02:05:49,960 --> 02:05:54,920
get both now if you were to bring
something before the county.

1826
02:05:53,760 --> 02:05:58,200
Um so, the county has a planning
commission, but I think before it was

1827
02:05:56,520 --> 02:06:01,520
based on if you had a variance, you had
to go to the planning commission. If

1828
02:05:59,920 --> 02:06:05,560
there was no variance or it was a small
subdivision,

1829
02:06:03,000 --> 02:06:08,560
the TRC could stamp it and that would
allow them to move forward. So,

1830
02:06:07,760 --> 02:06:11,000
um
>> The county doesn't really have any

1831
02:06:09,640 --> 02:06:13,200
zoning, does it?
>> Yes sir.

1832
02:06:11,600 --> 02:06:15,920
» The county doesn't have any zoning.
>> It's up It's up to them.

1833
02:06:14,320 --> 02:06:20,760
» I mean, it's No, that's correct. Which
adds a layer obviously to this process

1834
02:06:17,720 --> 02:06:23,560
because you you have the
you have the say in whether or not this

1835
02:06:22,120 --> 02:06:25,720
comes into the city. You want this
property within the city limits.

1836
02:06:24,987 --> 02:06:27,920
[clears throat] And that's effectively
what

1837
02:06:27,400 --> 02:06:29,880
» In in the
>> One of the major differences between

1838
02:06:28,920 --> 02:06:33,000
what the county did and
>> what you're doing.

1839
02:06:30,520 --> 02:06:36,520
» In getting that letter, the the TRC
approval letter, what that explains is

1840
02:06:34,880 --> 02:06:40,120
every department has to check it to say
does it meet your ordinances

1841
02:06:38,360 --> 02:06:43,640
that are publicly posted. When a
developer goes before a planning

1842
02:06:42,080 --> 02:06:46,440
commission with a site plan that robust,
with that much due diligence, they've

1843
02:06:44,800 --> 02:06:50,040
spent probably over a hundred thousand
dollars to get there. Um not very

1844
02:06:48,960 --> 02:06:53,040
litigious.
You look back at my history, don't have

1845
02:06:51,160 --> 02:06:56,600
a lot of those on my rap sheet, but I
will tell you this,

1846
02:06:54,640 --> 02:07:02,120
when I get an approval letter from TRC
that says we have met to the T

1847
02:06:59,800 --> 02:07:06,120
publicly posted ordinances
and in good faith of those publicly

1848
02:07:03,640 --> 02:07:10,000
posted ordinances, spent six figures to
get there,

1849
02:07:08,320 --> 02:07:14,360
and then it goes
and is inexplicably denied by a planning

1850
02:07:12,200 --> 02:07:17,400
commission with a TRC approval letter,
that's that's why we we found ourselves

1851
02:07:16,520 --> 02:07:21,200
in that situation.
>> So, as soon as the TRC

1852
02:07:19,800 --> 02:07:25,680
gave you approval, you were allowed to
build.

1853
02:07:22,800 --> 02:07:29,160
» The the site per the judge's order,
the TRC approval letter

1854
02:07:27,560 --> 02:07:33,800
did confirm that we met all ordinances
and that was deemed as an approval.

1855
02:07:32,760 --> 02:07:36,600
And
correct me if I'm wrong. Um

1856
02:07:35,640 --> 02:07:41,400
» Can I make I'm going to have a question
for him, too. So, can you step up?

1857
02:07:38,200 --> 02:07:44,360
» Um and so, the site plan is approved
and vested per the judge's order. It's

1858
02:07:42,960 --> 02:07:47,880
on the judge's order.
>> I saw that.

1859
02:07:45,680 --> 02:07:52,320
» Yes, Judge Vance's order does state that
as of

1860
02:07:49,320 --> 02:07:56,800
June 23rd, which is when that TRC
approval letter came through, uh that

1861
02:07:54,520 --> 02:08:01,080
vested rights uh they were vested at
that time.

1862
02:07:58,040 --> 02:08:07,120
Uh in the alternative, Judge Vance also
ruled um that

1863
02:08:03,240 --> 02:08:11,000
if uh for argument's sake, if the county
was allowed to uh

1864
02:08:09,160 --> 02:08:17,360
subject uh [clears throat] Cambridge
Farms to the uh dual uh approval process

1865
02:08:15,400 --> 02:08:23,920
as they did, which Judge Vance found
that that was not proper, um that

1866
02:08:22,200 --> 02:08:29,200
the planning commission's decision to
with uh to refuse that duplicate

1867
02:08:26,400 --> 02:08:32,600
approval was arbitrary, capricious, and
an abuse of discretion,

1868
02:08:30,880 --> 02:08:37,200
and it lacked any legal evidence to
support it. Um Judge Vance's order

1869
02:08:35,840 --> 02:08:40,360
specifically found that neither the
Technical Review Committee nor the

1870
02:08:38,560 --> 02:08:44,800
Planning Commission identified any
specific deficiencies, uh

1871
02:08:42,360 --> 02:08:50,240
non-conformity, or violations of
applicable ordinance with the respective

1872
02:08:46,960 --> 02:08:53,480
preliminary plat. Um in addition,
the order stated that the court finds

1873
02:08:51,920 --> 02:08:57,640
the petitioners complied with every
applicable requirement of the county's

1874
02:08:55,120 --> 02:09:00,040
ordinance and regulations. And so, along
with being

1875
02:08:59,040 --> 02:09:05,240
um
unlawfully subjected to the dual review

1876
02:09:03,880 --> 02:09:08,920
process,
um their Lawrence County Planning

1877
02:09:07,160 --> 02:09:12,040
Commission's decisions arbitrary,
capricious, and an abuse of discretion.

1878
02:09:10,880 --> 02:09:15,440
» So,
I'm sure it's part of the process, but I

1879
02:09:13,400 --> 02:09:19,120
don't understand it. If you had If the
TRC said they approve and you're allowed

1880
02:09:17,840 --> 02:09:23,000
to build,
how did you end up in front of the

1881
02:09:20,720 --> 02:09:25,000
Planning Commission and the County
Council?

1882
02:09:23,840 --> 02:09:27,440
» So,
in front of the county

1883
02:09:25,960 --> 02:09:30,520
» Council or in front of Planning?
>> Yeah, so we went in front of Planning.

1884
02:09:28,960 --> 02:09:32,600
I'm sorry if I misspoke.
>> You We were never in front of County

1885
02:09:31,840 --> 02:09:37,560
Council?
>> There There is no

1886
02:09:34,640 --> 02:09:41,240
So, it's open zoning, so we we would not
have to go in front of County Council to

1887
02:09:39,360 --> 02:09:46,080
ask for zoning. Right now, we're in a
zoning annexation meeting.

1888
02:09:43,200 --> 02:09:48,920
With open zoning, that step skips, and
you go straight to a site plan approval,

1889
02:09:47,600 --> 02:09:52,360
which is with Planning Commission, just
like you guys. Site plan approval would

1890
02:09:50,680 --> 02:09:55,960
be after this if you voted, "Hey, we're
good with this today and in the next

1891
02:09:54,200 --> 02:09:59,440
reading." Our next step would be we
would go and create a

1892
02:09:57,720 --> 02:10:03,120
full set of construction drawings, a lot
of detail, a lot of questions to ask,

1893
02:10:01,280 --> 02:10:06,400
and then we would go in front of your
Planning Commission. Well,

1894
02:10:04,800 --> 02:10:12,200
that's the step you just go
You You can go straight to, don't have

1895
02:10:08,360 --> 02:10:15,760
to go straight to, but they
tried to push us to even even with the

1896
02:10:14,720 --> 02:10:19,000
approval.
>> How long do you expect the appeal to

1897
02:10:17,360 --> 02:10:23,240
take?
>> So, as of right now, initial briefing of

1898
02:10:21,080 --> 02:10:27,960
that appeal is not complete. Um I
believe off the top of my head, uh this

1899
02:10:25,560 --> 02:10:31,840
coming Friday, the first brief from
Lawrence County is due. Uh that is

1900
02:10:29,720 --> 02:10:34,640
assuming no extensions.
Um

1901
02:10:32,600 --> 02:10:38,840
initial briefing can take anywhere from
probably

1902
02:10:36,600 --> 02:10:42,760
two to three months. Um maybe longer
depending on

1903
02:10:40,880 --> 02:10:47,520
um extensions.
As far as the time when that appeal will

1904
02:10:44,920 --> 02:10:54,000
be heard in front of the court of
appeals, that can range I mean anywhere

1905
02:10:50,200 --> 02:10:57,600
from a year to two years. Um after that,
the time that it would take for the

1906
02:10:55,320 --> 02:11:00,560
court of appeals to issue an opinion uh
could be an additional year if not

1907
02:10:59,480 --> 02:11:05,000
longer.
Um so I mean it could end up being a

1908
02:11:02,160 --> 02:11:08,000
multi-year process.
>> So, does that have anything to do with

1909
02:11:06,400 --> 02:11:12,320
y'all wanting to be
in the city because that that just goes

1910
02:11:09,840 --> 02:11:15,920
away and
>> Like I mean, if we're going to

1911
02:11:14,000 --> 02:11:20,120
take the time
to go through the appeal process, which

1912
02:11:18,680 --> 02:11:23,520
at this point, if you really read the
facts of the case, it is very strong.

1913
02:11:22,080 --> 02:11:26,720
And correct me if I'm wrong, they cannot
bring in any new facts. It is a review

1914
02:11:25,080 --> 02:11:30,080
of the facts of the case as it stands.
>> Uh

1915
02:11:27,440 --> 02:11:32,760
yes, so the appellate um
the

1916
02:11:31,000 --> 02:11:36,160
standard of your review would be the
facts as it was there presented in front

1917
02:11:34,640 --> 02:11:40,280
of the planning commission. That record
has been set.

1918
02:11:37,720 --> 02:11:42,880
Um that was set in the circuit court.
>> I mean

1919
02:11:43,000 --> 02:11:48,680
So, with that said,
we can go forward

1920
02:11:46,680 --> 02:11:52,440
with that and and we're willing to fight
that battle, go down that route. The

1921
02:11:50,800 --> 02:11:57,760
county is going to spend money on that
legally.

1922
02:11:53,760 --> 02:12:02,360
We will spend money on it. Right?
We had a site plan here that

1923
02:11:59,920 --> 02:12:05,920
we spent a lot of time on with the city
and

1924
02:12:04,080 --> 02:12:09,880
made better
per the vision of the city.

1925
02:12:08,120 --> 02:12:12,240
So, while we're in this
process right now, instead of sending

1926
02:12:11,120 --> 02:12:15,560
the county down a path where they're
going to spend a whole lot of money

1927
02:12:14,360 --> 02:12:19,440
and we're going to be be to go do it
anyways, you know,

1928
02:12:17,400 --> 02:12:23,320
why not take it forward
with a city that has seemed

1929
02:12:21,720 --> 02:12:26,520
like they appreciate the site plan,
appreciate

1930
02:12:25,040 --> 02:12:29,960
this and the growth,
need it, right,

1931
02:12:28,520 --> 02:12:32,040
and can benefit from it.
So,

1932
02:12:30,440 --> 02:12:35,760
» Mr. Causey, I want to say something. The
other week,

1933
02:12:33,680 --> 02:12:39,360
uh when he was asked the question, it
wasn't that he was being rude. They

1934
02:12:37,920 --> 02:12:42,880
said, "Are you going to go ahead no
matter if we

1935
02:12:40,760 --> 02:12:46,360
approve this or not?
If we don't approve it, are you going to

1936
02:12:44,280 --> 02:12:50,040
go ahead and build with these 600
something homes?"

1937
02:12:47,800 --> 02:12:55,440
And what what he's got in there and
what's passed through the county

1938
02:12:53,280 --> 02:12:59,520
through that court,
then yes, he would. He wouldn't be a

1939
02:12:57,320 --> 02:13:02,480
rude man. They asked a direct question
about it. So, [clears throat] I want you

1940
02:13:01,280 --> 02:13:05,960
to understand that. He wouldn't be a
rude man.

1941
02:13:03,080 --> 02:13:09,680
» And I'm not being rude to you, you. I
I'm really not being rude to you. I have

1942
02:13:07,440 --> 02:13:14,080
read the body language the whole time. I
was over there. Um

1943
02:13:11,520 --> 02:13:16,360
and I have no problem with R1. I voted
R1. That's what we passed the first

1944
02:13:15,520 --> 02:13:20,640
time.
I don't like to be lied to. I don't like

1945
02:13:18,520 --> 02:13:24,000
to be BSed. And I'm not talking to you.
I think I've been very polite, you as

1946
02:13:22,400 --> 02:13:27,120
well. Um
I don't mind speaking with him as an

1947
02:13:25,520 --> 02:13:31,600
individual.
But that's what he told me it's going.

1948
02:13:29,440 --> 02:13:35,520
» The way I look at it, it's a
117

1949
02:13:33,200 --> 02:13:40,200
117 homes less
and you all would

1950
02:13:38,160 --> 02:13:43,920
gain the taxation.
And and that's the plus side, I guess

1951
02:13:42,400 --> 02:13:48,440
you'd say.
>> That that brings up a point I wanted to

1952
02:13:45,520 --> 02:13:48,440
make, and that's

1953
02:13:48,480 --> 02:13:54,080
Planning Commission did approve or
recommend that we approve this as all

1954
02:13:51,920 --> 02:13:56,880
R1, and we and we did that. And many
people in this room were at that

1955
02:13:55,280 --> 02:14:00,440
meeting.
And at that time, everybody was telling

1956
02:13:59,000 --> 02:14:03,160
us, "You have to do what Planning
Commission recommends."

1957
02:14:02,160 --> 02:14:06,480
And now Planning Commission is
recommending we approve this plan, and

1958
02:14:04,720 --> 02:14:10,720
they want us to go against
what Planning Commission recommends.

1959
02:14:08,640 --> 02:14:14,560
So,
I don't know what to do with that, but

1960
02:14:12,920 --> 02:14:17,000
we have we already approved more lots
than this.

1961
02:14:15,680 --> 02:14:21,640
Um
the the wetlands concerns, all all that

1962
02:14:19,400 --> 02:14:25,600
stuff, the traffic, it's all valid.
We voted to approve it with more homes.

1963
02:14:24,120 --> 02:14:29,280
They've come back, in my opinion, with a
better plan.

1964
02:14:27,280 --> 02:14:34,200
Um the commercial, people have concerns
about that. I think I hope we can

1965
02:14:32,080 --> 02:14:37,960
fix the issue with the R3. I think we
can, especially if they're going to do a

1966
02:14:35,800 --> 02:14:43,160
development agreement that gives us time
to do a similar We changed our zoning

1967
02:14:40,560 --> 02:14:45,680
based on the concerns from a lot of the
crowd

1968
02:14:44,360 --> 02:14:48,800
that they were going to build they
wouldn't build what they said they

1969
02:14:46,640 --> 02:14:51,560
would. But R R2 and R3 allowed
multifamily, and people said, "Well, as

1970
02:14:50,360 --> 02:14:55,840
soon as you give them that zoning,
that's what they'll do." So, we created

1971
02:14:53,520 --> 02:14:59,360
two new zoning designations.
Um

1972
02:14:57,200 --> 02:15:05,000
I think coming back with
with R2S and R3S, that's kind of what we

1973
02:15:02,720 --> 02:15:08,400
asked them to do. It's fewer homes,
and we we fixed the zoning. I know

1974
02:15:06,680 --> 02:15:13,400
people still don't like the narrow lots.
I I get that. Um that's valid. But, the

1975
02:15:11,720 --> 02:15:17,520
main concern I remember from the first
meetings was that they would build

1976
02:15:15,000 --> 02:15:20,640
multifamily, no matter what we did.
Um

1977
02:15:19,120 --> 02:15:25,000
to answer your question, Ms. Cogsdell,
about would you live there? I would. I

1978
02:15:23,200 --> 02:15:29,760
mean, I don't I don't have a problem
with this type of neighborhood.

1979
02:15:27,080 --> 02:15:32,600
Pool, cabana, 10-acre central park,
athletic fields, cooking area, walking

1980
02:15:31,400 --> 02:15:36,200
trails.
Um I have I have cousins in Missouri

1981
02:15:34,880 --> 02:15:40,120
that grew up in a neighborhood very
similar to this,

1982
02:15:38,000 --> 02:15:43,520
and I was always jealous when I went to
their house. I lived in the middle of

1983
02:15:41,600 --> 02:15:46,800
nowhere and had one neighbor.
And some people want that, but some

1984
02:15:44,760 --> 02:15:50,760
people want this. Uh I've I've been in a
lot of neighborhoods like this. I've

1985
02:15:49,240 --> 02:15:54,160
I've visited in them. I know people that
live in them. My mother-in-law lives in

1986
02:15:52,280 --> 02:15:56,800
a neighborhood similar to this.
The people there all know each other.

1987
02:15:55,440 --> 02:15:59,920
They get along.
Um

1988
02:15:57,720 --> 02:16:03,000
I don't I don't view this as something
negative for Clinton. I think if you

1989
02:16:01,280 --> 02:16:06,600
asked many people in Clinton, would you
rather stay where you're at or move into

1990
02:16:04,760 --> 02:16:09,240
this neighborhood, they would choose
this neighborhood if they could afford

1991
02:16:07,840 --> 02:16:14,040
it.
Um

1992
02:16:11,160 --> 02:16:18,200
So, that that's just my honest answer.
If this was If something like this was

1993
02:16:15,920 --> 02:16:21,720
being put in near my house,
I'd I would be okay with that. And I'm

1994
02:16:20,440 --> 02:16:24,880
just trying to be honest. I know people
may not believe that, but that's my

1995
02:16:22,960 --> 02:16:28,200
honest take on it.
Um

1996
02:16:26,040 --> 02:16:32,360
So, the and and
to to to talk about the wetlands,

1997
02:16:30,720 --> 02:16:34,960
I I've heard from so many people in this
room and people that aren't in this

1998
02:16:33,440 --> 02:16:39,400
room. I've also heard from a lot of
people in the community that aren't here

1999
02:16:37,559 --> 02:16:43,480
that speak positively about it, that see
the positive attributes, that see how it

2000
02:16:41,760 --> 02:16:46,880
will help our city both financially and
with a customer base for downtown

2001
02:16:45,559 --> 02:16:51,160
businesses.
Um it's very hard to be the to be in a

2002
02:16:49,880 --> 02:16:54,800
room where a bunch of people are against
something and stand up and say, "I think

2003
02:16:52,599 --> 02:16:59,200
it's a good idea." So, I don't expect to
hear a lot of people in Clinton that

2004
02:16:56,800 --> 02:17:00,760
would be positive about it.
Um

2005
02:16:59,960 --> 02:17:03,760
» Coming here.
>> Co- coming here to speak in front of I

2006
02:17:02,280 --> 02:17:06,920
mean, and even on like Facebook and
things, there's no reason to put your

2007
02:17:04,960 --> 02:17:11,479
neck on the line and say, "Well,
I I kind of like it or whatever."

2008
02:17:09,000 --> 02:17:14,760
Um it just puts you in an awkward spot.
>> [cough and clears throat]

2009
02:17:12,880 --> 02:17:18,200
» As far as the
the I do [snorts] want to clarify a

2010
02:17:16,120 --> 02:17:21,760
couple things because the number 2200
has been in the planning commission

2011
02:17:19,800 --> 02:17:26,719
meetings and different areas.
I tried to get a an actual number on

2012
02:17:24,639 --> 02:17:28,920
that, and the number that we have that I
got from our planning

2013
02:17:28,320 --> 02:17:33,679
um
planning department,

2014
02:17:31,800 --> 02:17:40,040
thought I had it up here.
Uh is it 15 and 30, Phil? 1530.

2015
02:17:37,760 --> 02:17:42,719
Um one of them that was on the initial
list,

2016
02:17:41,639 --> 02:17:46,519
one of them that was on the initial
list, we we didn't approve. That was the

2017
02:17:44,639 --> 02:17:49,440
one Mr. Meters, can you help me out by
the ball our ball fields?

2018
02:17:48,080 --> 02:17:52,120
» Red Complex.
>> Valley Valley Acres.

2019
02:17:50,760 --> 02:17:55,960
» Valley Acres.
Um Hampton Woods is already done

2020
02:17:54,320 --> 02:17:59,559
building, so they shouldn't be on the
approved. They already exist, and I

2021
02:17:57,559 --> 02:18:05,280
guess most of them are sold.
And what was the other one that was on

2022
02:18:01,000 --> 02:18:05,280
our list initially that got us to 1908.

2023
02:18:06,240 --> 02:18:11,719
There was one that's no longer. Highland
Park, was it?

2024
02:18:09,960 --> 02:18:14,960
Okay, Highland Park, they're they've Are
they decided not to move forward or

2025
02:18:13,280 --> 02:18:17,679
we've Have we done something with that
or previous

2026
02:18:22,320 --> 02:18:24,719
Okay.

2027
02:18:33,679 --> 02:18:41,120
Okay. So, I mean, that may still be a
big number for people, but it's it's

2028
02:18:37,280 --> 02:18:45,280
different than 2200 and the homes that
we have the option to approve tonight

2029
02:18:43,320 --> 02:18:48,480
doesn't even get us to 2200 based on
what we have

2030
02:18:46,719 --> 02:18:52,519
currently approved.
Um couple more things I want to say. I

2031
02:18:50,400 --> 02:18:55,880
know I'm going kind of long.
Uh

2032
02:18:54,400 --> 02:18:58,320
the development agreement, I think it's
huge.

2033
02:18:57,160 --> 02:19:01,719
Um
we definitely have to have that in

2034
02:18:59,480 --> 02:19:05,880
place, and I think that would ease a lot
of people's minds.

2035
02:19:03,400 --> 02:19:05,880
Um

2036
02:19:06,880 --> 02:19:12,679
The the real issue for me
tonight is that

2037
02:19:11,440 --> 02:19:17,360
whether or not you think it's a good
chance or bad chance, I've read the

2038
02:19:14,160 --> 02:19:20,840
court documents.
Um I I'm not going to put a percentage

2039
02:19:19,480 --> 02:19:24,840
on it. It looks like they have a good
case. Y'all got approved before the

2040
02:19:22,760 --> 02:19:29,599
moratorium was put in place.
Um some people may think that the appeal

2041
02:19:27,040 --> 02:19:33,240
has a chance, and maybe it's also people
just want that process to happen because

2042
02:19:31,360 --> 02:19:36,800
it would delay these guys 2 years. I'm
not sure.

2043
02:19:34,880 --> 02:19:41,000
Um but it looks like it has a great
chance

2044
02:19:38,080 --> 02:19:46,320
of being upheld, in my opinion.
Um so, the the greatest risk to the city

2045
02:19:44,040 --> 02:19:49,800
tonight, in my opinion,
is that we don't approve it,

2046
02:19:48,519 --> 02:19:52,800
and then they build anyway in the
county,

2047
02:19:51,000 --> 02:19:56,280
and we've still got the wetlands issue,
we've still got flooding, we've still

2048
02:19:54,200 --> 02:20:00,280
got traffic. We've mentioned a lot of
cons to the project.

2049
02:19:58,320 --> 02:20:03,800
Um and there are I I see a lot of
positives to it, but we've talked a lot

2050
02:20:01,800 --> 02:20:07,760
about the negatives.
And the

2051
02:20:05,400 --> 02:20:11,080
the best chance of what could happen is
that it gets approved in the county

2052
02:20:09,120 --> 02:20:16,520
anyway and it's built and those problems
all exist anyway and we don't get any of

2053
02:20:13,320 --> 02:20:20,400
the impact fees or the taxes.
Um

2054
02:20:18,920 --> 02:20:24,240
I I've heard a lot of you. I've talked
to a lot of you.

2055
02:20:22,120 --> 02:20:29,320
The the part that makes this job hard is
that even though we hear concerns,

2056
02:20:27,040 --> 02:20:32,280
so many of them are valid and and good
concerns and things that we're going to

2057
02:20:30,680 --> 02:20:36,720
do everything we can
to fix. We still have to vote yes or no

2058
02:20:34,560 --> 02:20:39,280
on things. And what puts me over the
edge, I'll I'm going to vote yes

2059
02:20:38,120 --> 02:20:43,040
tonight.
What puts me over the edge is knowing

2060
02:20:41,080 --> 02:20:46,880
that there's a good chance that it's
going to happen anyway.

2061
02:20:44,760 --> 02:20:51,280
Um so we've spent all this time talking
about do we like the project or not?

2062
02:20:49,560 --> 02:20:54,400
But there's still a good chance hanging
over our heads that it's going to be

2063
02:20:52,280 --> 02:20:57,280
built whether we do like it or not.
Um

2064
02:20:55,520 --> 02:21:00,840
I haven't taken that as a threat, but I
I've I've just seen that's probably the

2065
02:20:59,400 --> 02:21:04,880
reality.
Um so

2066
02:21:02,360 --> 02:21:07,880
acknowledge I I'll just acknowledge the
risks involved with voting no or tabling

2067
02:21:06,960 --> 02:21:10,400
it.
Um

2068
02:21:08,880 --> 02:21:13,840
that those are the positive things about
it. I obviously don't see neighborhoods

2069
02:21:11,920 --> 02:21:16,960
like this as something super negative. I
feel like we're talking about data

2070
02:21:14,920 --> 02:21:20,400
centers and it's just homes where people
are going to live.

2071
02:21:18,400 --> 02:21:24,160
Um I understand people don't like it.
Some people say, "I don't want to live

2072
02:21:22,240 --> 02:21:27,440
that close to my neighbors." If people
didn't like this type of neighborhood,

2073
02:21:25,600 --> 02:21:31,320
they wouldn't buy the homes. And we have
people calling us all the time looking

2074
02:21:29,520 --> 02:21:34,720
for exactly this.
Um

2075
02:21:32,840 --> 02:21:38,200
You add on the risk that I mentioned,
that that's why I'm going to vote yes

2076
02:21:36,160 --> 02:21:41,720
tonight. That's all I have.
>> Corey You Bill Megan and we'll speak

2077
02:21:39,520 --> 02:21:45,240
back to Danny. I have no problem with
the layout or whatever. All these

2078
02:21:43,160 --> 02:21:49,560
amenities are great. And if you remember
there in the first time it came through,

2079
02:21:47,200 --> 02:21:54,280
it got it was a big issue. And the only
way we would pass it was as R1. That's

2080
02:21:52,080 --> 02:21:58,400
the only way it got passed. I don't have
a problem. If we could go all R1, I

2081
02:21:56,760 --> 02:22:01,280
absolutely have no problem with this.
I'm

2082
02:21:59,400 --> 02:22:05,600
they saying single family, whatever. And
I've told this to Megan before. My

2083
02:22:02,760 --> 02:22:10,640
trailer does not belong in Mary Oaks. I
know that.

2084
02:22:07,120 --> 02:22:14,240
And I mean, if it goes all R1, I'll tell
you, yes, I'll vote yes. But it right

2085
02:22:12,560 --> 02:22:18,720
now, I'm a no.
But and I think it's a great layout, but

2086
02:22:16,160 --> 02:22:23,880
just you got R1 in the front, well, then
you got R3, just say BP and my trailer

2087
02:22:21,440 --> 02:22:29,280
at the back. Well, these other 400 homes
has got to go back through R1. So, these

2088
02:22:26,880 --> 02:22:31,920
people that's done spent $450,000 on a
home,

2089
02:22:30,480 --> 02:22:35,680
well, you got me and my little beep beep
raggedy car coming through this nice

2090
02:22:34,080 --> 02:22:39,240
neighborhood.
And I'm just saying, I'm not being

2091
02:22:36,800 --> 02:22:42,640
smart. I'm just Look,
I'm from this side of town. I apologize,

2092
02:22:41,160 --> 02:22:45,280
but and I'm not being smart. I'm just
stating facts.

2093
02:22:43,760 --> 02:22:47,480
» All right.
>> And we can agree to disagree.

2094
02:22:46,840 --> 02:22:49,760
» Okay.
>> My turn.

2095
02:22:48,640 --> 02:22:56,440
» Okay.
Um so,

2096
02:22:51,960 --> 02:23:01,920
um first, can we have your wetlands um
expert talk to us about Would that also

2097
02:22:59,680 --> 02:23:03,920
Would you also speak to stormwater
runoff?

2098
02:23:03,080 --> 02:23:06,920
» Uh
>> That's someone else.

2099
02:23:05,080 --> 02:23:09,800
» Yeah, she have two experts to handle the
wetlands.

2100
02:23:07,040 --> 02:23:12,800
» Great. I'd love to hear from two strong
women. I love it.

2101
02:23:12,280 --> 02:23:17,880
Go.
>> Uh so, my name's Laura Belanger. I am a

2102
02:23:15,800 --> 02:23:23,400
wetland scientist. So, we deal
specifically with identifying streams

2103
02:23:20,400 --> 02:23:29,600
and wetlands on the undeveloped site.
Uh we did our delineation in December of

2104
02:23:27,440 --> 02:23:34,880
2024. That's when we bring the field
scientists out, and we're looking at

2105
02:23:31,760 --> 02:23:38,680
soils, hydrology, vegetation, following
Army Corps of Engineers standard

2106
02:23:37,160 --> 02:23:44,360
practices.
Then we had representatives from the

2107
02:23:41,640 --> 02:23:51,400
Army Corps of Engineers out on site at
the end of February 2025.

2108
02:23:47,600 --> 02:23:56,920
Um so, they have been on site. Um and we
have the wetland delineation report. It

2109
02:23:54,240 --> 02:24:06,000
identified a total of
9.11 acres of aquatic resources on the

2110
02:24:01,000 --> 02:24:06,000
site. Um and that included 6,879

2111
02:24:06,200 --> 02:24:12,920
linear feet of tributary.
Um

2112
02:24:09,760 --> 02:24:18,120
what the Army Corps of Engineers
regulates are those aquatic resources

2113
02:24:16,000 --> 02:24:24,800
that are protected under the Clean Water
Act. And so, that is our very narrow

2114
02:24:21,320 --> 02:24:29,800
specialty is all we do is Clean Water
Act regulations. So, we get brought out

2115
02:24:27,960 --> 02:24:33,360
pretty early in the due diligence
timeline.

2116
02:24:31,640 --> 02:24:39,080
And so, what
does this meet the requirements? Is it

2117
02:24:37,040 --> 02:24:42,720
in line with
Army Corps of Engineers?

2118
02:24:40,680 --> 02:24:48,520
» Yes. So, what they have The way the
process works is the first thing that

2119
02:24:44,800 --> 02:24:52,480
happens is those resources that are
protected under the Clean Water Act are

2120
02:24:50,600 --> 02:24:55,960
identified on site. So, that was what
happened in December.

2121
02:24:54,400 --> 02:25:03,360
And we coordinated with Army Corps of
Engineers. If they are going to do any

2122
02:25:00,240 --> 02:25:09,520
work within those areas,
a permit will have to be obtained from

2123
02:25:05,680 --> 02:25:13,520
the Army Corps of Engineers before that
can happen and the forest going to have

2124
02:25:11,440 --> 02:25:18,360
to authorize that.
Um based on their site plan, it looks

2125
02:25:15,640 --> 02:25:23,320
like they have avoided the vast majority
of impacts

2126
02:25:20,040 --> 02:25:26,000
um to aquatic resources the way they've
laid everything out.

2127
02:25:25,080 --> 02:25:30,800
» Okay.
>> So, then it will become a question of

2128
02:25:27,840 --> 02:25:35,400
engineering, but the Army Corps has very
specific

2129
02:25:32,480 --> 02:25:40,520
rules on what they will approve.
Um so, for example, road crossings have

2130
02:25:37,840 --> 02:25:43,440
very specific culvert requirements.
Those were just updated in March of this

2131
02:25:42,960 --> 02:25:46,600
year.
>> Okay.

2132
02:25:44,000 --> 02:25:51,200
» So, that I think the site plan has to
get further along to know what those

2133
02:25:48,480 --> 02:25:54,160
impacts will be, but they will have to
coordinate further with Army Corps for

2134
02:25:53,280 --> 02:25:57,240
that.
>> Thank you.

2135
02:25:54,600 --> 02:26:00,520
» I appreciate scientific expertise, and I
especially appreciate seeing women in

2136
02:25:59,120 --> 02:26:03,400
STEM. So, thank you.
>> Thank you.

2137
02:26:01,000 --> 02:26:07,120
» Um so, you can speak to the storm water
runoff. That would be fantastic.

2138
02:26:05,560 --> 02:26:11,240
» Yes, ma'am.
Chrissy Terrell Drake, I'm a partner at

2139
02:26:09,360 --> 02:26:14,720
Bluewater Civil Design.
Um I'm project manager on this. I've

2140
02:26:13,120 --> 02:26:18,560
been involved with it for the past 2
years, so any questions you have, I can

2141
02:26:16,640 --> 02:26:23,680
definitely answer.
>> Well, tell me what speak to the concerns

2142
02:26:21,080 --> 02:26:29,640
that people have um addressed especially
regarding um the Bush River.

2143
02:26:26,480 --> 02:26:32,166
» Absolutely. So, um just to piggyback off
of what Laura was speaking about with

2144
02:26:31,120 --> 02:26:33,960
those wetlands,
>> [clears throat]

2145
02:26:32,200 --> 02:26:38,840
» we're going to have two wetlands
crossings for roadways. So, that is

2146
02:26:37,080 --> 02:26:43,000
standard permitting procedures that we
have to go through. We work with Laura

2147
02:26:41,120 --> 02:26:47,040
all the time on those and what those
regulations that we have to meet, and

2148
02:26:45,360 --> 02:26:51,480
that is specifically because the
property is bisected by a tributary. You

2149
02:26:49,640 --> 02:26:56,480
cannot get to the back of that property
without having an impact. Now, we have

2150
02:26:54,080 --> 02:27:01,240
limited that impact to only be the road
crossings at this point in time. There's

2151
02:26:58,760 --> 02:27:06,080
nothing with our lots. We won't have
grading outside of the what has to be

2152
02:27:03,520 --> 02:27:10,320
for that road crossing and that culvert
in any of the wetland areas, including

2153
02:27:08,280 --> 02:27:13,920
there's buffers set to those
those wetland areas as well with the

2154
02:27:12,240 --> 02:27:17,760
delineations, and we're not near
anywhere in those buffers, either.

2155
02:27:18,000 --> 02:27:24,240
To piggyback off of some other issues
that have come up um specifically with

2156
02:27:22,602 --> 02:27:27,120
[clears throat] the Bush River. So, I
believe I was asked this at planning

2157
02:27:25,960 --> 02:27:30,720
commission, and I think there was just
some confusion with the question. I was

2158
02:27:28,920 --> 02:27:35,280
being asked to
elaborate if there was an Army Corps of

2159
02:27:32,760 --> 02:27:39,400
Engineer delineated report for the
flooding.

2160
02:27:36,880 --> 02:27:44,920
Your flood zones are established by
FEMA, which is your Federal Emergency

2161
02:27:42,080 --> 02:27:49,560
Management Agency.
They do their own studies. They come

2162
02:27:47,080 --> 02:27:55,160
through and they evaluate what those
zones are. So, on our site specifically

2163
02:27:52,680 --> 02:28:01,920
along that back edge, there's small
parts of the site that have that zone AE

2164
02:27:59,040 --> 02:28:07,000
signature on it. So, in that area, it is
a flood zone. We cannot add any fill. We

2165
02:28:04,760 --> 02:28:13,080
cannot do any disturbance. And there's a
base flood elevation set that we have to

2166
02:28:09,800 --> 02:28:16,760
design homes at least 6 ft taller than.
I went ahead and ran a preliminary

2167
02:28:14,760 --> 02:28:21,640
evaluation of what those base flood
elevations are and where our closest

2168
02:28:19,320 --> 02:28:26,840
roadway and
uh lots that back up to that flood area

2169
02:28:24,120 --> 02:28:33,240
is, and we're 20 ft in the air.
Above what that established flooding

2170
02:28:30,040 --> 02:28:38,440
elevation is by national data.
So, there's nothing that we will be

2171
02:28:34,960 --> 02:28:43,640
doing in that flood zone.
When it comes to storm water, we also

2172
02:28:41,000 --> 02:28:46,840
have state regulations that we have to
meet.

2173
02:28:44,840 --> 02:28:53,120
In the city of Clinton, that goes
directly to SEDES.

2174
02:28:49,640 --> 02:28:57,200
They evaluate our designs. We have peak
rate attenuation that we have to meet

2175
02:28:54,800 --> 02:29:02,120
for our development. There's watershed
elevations in our ponds that we have to

2176
02:28:59,120 --> 02:29:06,240
meet that are all state regulated. And
those are who come out, perform

2177
02:29:04,680 --> 02:29:10,680
annual inspections, and make sure
everything in the site is per design and

2178
02:29:09,280 --> 02:29:16,560
up to code.
So, there's no

2179
02:29:14,120 --> 02:29:19,880
detrimental
Let me rephrase Let me rephrase that.

2180
02:29:18,960 --> 02:29:25,360
Excuse me.
At this point in time with our design

2181
02:29:23,120 --> 02:29:29,040
meeting those state regulations, we are
going to be at code there.

2182
02:29:29,600 --> 02:29:35,600
We have enough space available that we
are willing to go above. Just from my

2183
02:29:34,160 --> 02:29:40,320
engineering
my name is going on these plans. I'm

2184
02:29:37,840 --> 02:29:44,680
liable. I'm a state licensed
professional engineer. My number is

2185
02:29:42,080 --> 02:29:49,840
410730 if you want to look me up. I've
got 12 years of experience.

2186
02:29:48,120 --> 02:29:54,240
I would not feel comfortable putting my
name on these plans without the

2187
02:29:51,280 --> 02:29:58,280
designing to the 100-year storm.
So, you have my guarantee as a partner

2188
02:29:56,600 --> 02:30:01,720
in this company that that will be
happening.

2189
02:30:00,080 --> 02:30:08,400
We we
sign an oath to not harm.

2190
02:30:05,440 --> 02:30:13,000
To not perform any engineering that is
going to cause issues and harm to

2191
02:30:10,560 --> 02:30:16,280
downstream neighbors.
So, I I hope that gives you a little bit

2192
02:30:15,040 --> 02:30:19,560
of
>> reassurance.

2193
02:30:17,080 --> 02:30:24,693
» I also again, I appreciate women and
still and I appreciate the

2194
02:30:22,440 --> 02:30:27,320
the engineering creed
>> [clears throat]

2195
02:30:24,960 --> 02:30:31,360
» to do no harm. I mean, I I I
I think we are

2196
02:30:29,520 --> 02:30:33,600
uh as
uh

2197
02:30:32,240 --> 02:30:38,800
someone who believes in science, we're
going to see more floods, more and more

2198
02:30:35,840 --> 02:30:44,760
floods. That's just a fact um
because um

2199
02:30:41,320 --> 02:30:51,320
that's fact. Um so, I
at least a 100-year flood standard is

2200
02:30:47,360 --> 02:30:55,600
what have to be forward thinking of um
but I

2201
02:30:52,800 --> 02:31:00,280
I appreciate your input um and
addressing the concerns of those um

2202
02:31:00,360 --> 02:31:03,480
Thank you.
>> Yes, ma'am.

2203
02:31:02,280 --> 02:31:06,320
» Um
Okay, I've got some other things.

2204
02:31:05,880 --> 02:31:11,640
Um
>> May I May I May I ask a follow-up

2205
02:31:08,000 --> 02:31:19,240
question while she's up here, please?
>> Will your report be done in phases as

2206
02:31:15,240 --> 02:31:23,600
development occurs based on current
structures and then as more added or do

2207
02:31:22,160 --> 02:31:27,200
you do it on the front end in the
beginning and then it's not done anymore

2208
02:31:26,200 --> 02:31:30,680
till
it's completed out?

2209
02:31:28,440 --> 02:31:34,160
» So, we will look at it as a full build
out development for our engineering

2210
02:31:32,560 --> 02:31:37,520
calculations that we need. Cuz you have
to take into account the whole thing

2211
02:31:35,720 --> 02:31:41,640
being developed, all of that impervious
area, the areas going into those ponds.

2212
02:31:39,440 --> 02:31:46,120
Now, we may break our construction
phasing out, but our hydrology and our

2213
02:31:44,160 --> 02:31:49,800
report will be analyzed with the full
build out.

2214
02:31:46,840 --> 02:31:49,800
» Okay. Thank you.

2215
02:31:50,640 --> 02:31:55,760
» Um thank you. I appreciate that. Um

2216
02:31:56,640 --> 02:31:59,480
So, I

2217
02:32:00,360 --> 02:32:09,440
First I'll speak to um the difference
between county and city, just my view of

2218
02:32:06,280 --> 02:32:14,320
it. Um I know this may not be the exact
meaning of home rule, but home rule is

2219
02:32:12,160 --> 02:32:18,040
that municipalities get to decide for
themselves

2220
02:32:15,760 --> 02:32:25,240
what um
what is good for our municipality.

2221
02:32:22,160 --> 02:32:29,080
And so, to say that because cuz the
county

2222
02:32:27,120 --> 02:32:34,280
is fighting it,
uh whatever terminology we want to use,

2223
02:32:31,800 --> 02:32:39,160
that we shouldn't move forward goes
against that

2224
02:32:36,080 --> 02:32:44,080
at least the spirit of home rule. Again,
I'm not assured I know home rule means

2225
02:32:41,360 --> 02:32:50,760
some different things. Some has a legal
terms to it, but that we have the

2226
02:32:46,680 --> 02:32:55,160
capacity as a a council to decide things
for our municipality

2227
02:32:52,960 --> 02:32:59,160
regardless of what as long as we're
following state

2228
02:32:57,160 --> 02:33:05,360
law, you know,
we don't have to follow county. We we

2229
02:33:01,880 --> 02:33:09,560
set more standards for zoning than they
do.

2230
02:33:06,760 --> 02:33:16,960
We would have more control over things
as a part of our city annex. I think

2231
02:33:13,560 --> 02:33:22,800
this fits well into our annexation plan,
which has in the past we have always

2232
02:33:19,640 --> 02:33:27,840
talked about moving out 72 as part of
our annexation plan.

2233
02:33:25,840 --> 02:33:32,880
I have chosen to live in this community
for 18 years. I've raised all of my

2234
02:33:30,520 --> 02:33:38,840
children. My youngest is starting her
senior year tomorrow. Got a lot going

2235
02:33:35,240 --> 02:33:43,800
on, but I love being here to represent
our community.

2236
02:33:40,360 --> 02:33:48,440
Um, I grew up in a very urban area.
Um, houses

2237
02:33:45,600 --> 02:33:53,400
very close together that I I lived on a
peninsula on a peninsula in Florida.

2238
02:33:51,720 --> 02:33:57,680
Probably one of the highest density
areas, Pinellas County,

2239
02:33:55,800 --> 02:34:01,600
in the country. Um,
so I don't know. I grew up okay next to

2240
02:34:00,240 --> 02:34:04,600
neighbors.
Um,

2241
02:34:02,400 --> 02:34:10,240
I live in a high-density area here,
College View. I can hear

2242
02:34:07,760 --> 02:34:14,680
uh, my neighbor Greg when he pulls into
the driveway, which is right next to my

2243
02:34:11,960 --> 02:34:21,320
bedroom, and know if he turns the light
on or off in his, uh, driveway.

2244
02:34:18,560 --> 02:34:25,920
And I I can't throw a ball to the
mayor's house, but I know I could kick a

2245
02:34:23,320 --> 02:34:31,600
ball to the mayor's house. And three
he's three houses down.

2246
02:34:28,360 --> 02:34:35,840
Um, I know there's always there's fear
with change. There's so much fear with

2247
02:34:33,760 --> 02:34:42,080
change. I remember a few years ago when
there was change on my street

2248
02:34:38,760 --> 02:34:47,080
when Thornwill asked to have a roadway
opened to start the farm, and we were

2249
02:34:44,880 --> 02:34:52,880
told that children were going to die,
that it was unsafe. And as of now, no

2250
02:34:50,760 --> 02:34:56,040
children have died on our road.
Everyone's been safe, and I think most

2251
02:34:54,720 --> 02:35:03,600
people would agree that it's been a
positive addition to our city. Um, and I

2252
02:35:00,320 --> 02:35:07,080
like being able to pass by it on my
daily walk.

2253
02:35:05,440 --> 02:35:10,400
Um,
I

2254
02:35:09,040 --> 02:35:16,680
don't
think that commercial growth

2255
02:35:13,480 --> 02:35:23,000
on that end of the city is mutually
exclusive from growth down here. I think

2256
02:35:19,960 --> 02:35:28,560
what we have to do is increase our
median income, and the only way to do

2257
02:35:25,320 --> 02:35:34,680
that is to increase our population.
Um, our schools are not at capacity, and

2258
02:35:31,840 --> 02:35:39,200
we do need to increase those.
Um,

2259
02:35:35,720 --> 02:35:44,480
and we need more teachers. Um, I work in
special education, and it is a beast to

2260
02:35:42,200 --> 02:35:49,880
find teachers who are adequately
certified, who are willing to live. They

2261
02:35:46,880 --> 02:35:53,240
all want to live in Greenville, um, and
people don't want to commute, and

2262
02:35:52,640 --> 02:35:59,120
um
we are losing a lot of our qualified

2263
02:35:56,160 --> 02:36:04,920
teachers, a lot of teachers that, um,
some of you may have had who are aging

2264
02:36:02,000 --> 02:36:09,680
out and have hung on for a long time,
but will [clears throat] retire at some

2265
02:36:06,320 --> 02:36:15,280
point. Um
I was, um, in Fountain Inn

2266
02:36:14,600 --> 02:36:18,600
uh,
this last weekend.

2267
02:36:17,200 --> 02:36:24,280
And
it was so packed, I we couldn't find

2268
02:36:21,000 --> 02:36:30,400
find parking and had to ditch our plans
and go somewhere else, and I think those

2269
02:36:26,200 --> 02:36:34,760
are issues we could only we would
love to dream of having. And 20 years

2270
02:36:33,040 --> 02:36:39,680
ago, I think we will all agree that that
was not where downtown Fountain Inn was.

2271
02:36:37,720 --> 02:36:45,400
It was not the place to be, but it is
now, and it's partially because of um,

2272
02:36:42,640 --> 02:36:51,840
the growth. And I I know it's scary. I
know that change is scary, but we also

2273
02:36:49,080 --> 02:36:58,680
have a fiduciary responsibility
to the citizens of Clinton. And

2274
02:36:56,520 --> 02:37:03,200
if I again, and I don't see it as a
threat. I know, I mean, I don't see it

2275
02:37:00,360 --> 02:37:10,680
as a threat of they're going to build.
That's just a the fact, and

2276
02:37:07,520 --> 02:37:17,160
if we don't annex, we are losing out on
and we will have to service them with

2277
02:37:13,480 --> 02:37:19,600
fire. And if if we annex them, correct
me if I'm wrong, Chief.

2278
02:37:18,920 --> 02:37:23,160
Um
you know, the traffic, as of right now,

2279
02:37:21,640 --> 02:37:27,760
that's out of your jurisdiction,
correct?

2280
02:37:24,840 --> 02:37:32,040
Yes. But if we were to annex,
you would be able to patrol that section

2281
02:37:30,560 --> 02:37:35,240
of road.
For speeding, for

2282
02:37:39,600 --> 02:37:48,800
Okay. So that would extend our ability
to monitor traffic, speeding, that kind

2283
02:37:46,960 --> 02:37:55,120
of thing. Whereas right now, as it
stands, without annexation, you would

2284
02:37:51,320 --> 02:37:57,640
have you would have no ability
Okay.

2285
02:37:56,360 --> 02:38:00,240
Um
so

2286
02:38:00,800 --> 02:38:05,040
I
I

2287
02:38:03,120 --> 02:38:11,440
have looked at the plans when it was all
R1, and it did look a lot more congested

2288
02:38:08,000 --> 02:38:16,400
than this. It was that we you lost all
of that green space between.

2289
02:38:14,160 --> 02:38:21,880
This to me
I I and I again, I know this is a

2290
02:38:18,240 --> 02:38:26,800
bird's-eye view. Um
is

2291
02:38:24,080 --> 02:38:29,840
provides a lot more green space than an
all R1.

2292
02:38:28,600 --> 02:38:33,520
Um
and

2293
02:38:30,960 --> 02:38:37,040
I I have young adult children
who A, think they'll never be able to

2294
02:38:35,400 --> 02:38:39,160
afford a home.
>> Yeah.

2295
02:38:37,720 --> 02:38:43,080
» Period.
Um

2296
02:38:40,560 --> 02:38:46,480
the job market is
dismal

2297
02:38:44,520 --> 02:38:50,480
right now for young adults coming out of
college.

2298
02:38:47,760 --> 02:38:54,720
Um and
to

2299
02:38:51,440 --> 02:38:58,280
everyone I know has a boomerang child in
their house right now.

2300
02:38:56,520 --> 02:39:02,859
Um
and would love to get them out.

2301
02:39:00,840 --> 02:39:02,859
» [laughter]

2302
02:39:02,880 --> 02:39:09,920
» This and and this would not I don't you
know, not necessarily be affordable to

2303
02:39:07,480 --> 02:39:14,680
it, but but
they want to have something

2304
02:39:12,280 --> 02:39:19,480
to aspire to. And And we are the
fastest-growing state in the nation.

2305
02:39:17,480 --> 02:39:26,160
More people moved to South Carolina last
year than any other state, period.

2306
02:39:23,400 --> 02:39:29,440
Um so, those are my Those are my
thoughts.

2307
02:39:28,480 --> 02:39:34,200
» Okay, thank you.
>> You said that Mary Oak, I mean, and I've

2308
02:39:31,760 --> 02:39:37,560
told this before. I mean
I mean, everybody don't

2309
02:39:35,960 --> 02:39:41,920
have to live in Mary Oaks. Everybody
don't belong in Mary Oaks. I mean

2310
02:39:40,520 --> 02:39:46,680
I mean, anybody can live there, I'm just
saying. But, you got these other 1,900

2311
02:39:44,680 --> 02:39:50,640
homes that if
you can't afford a Mary Oaks home, then

2312
02:39:49,240 --> 02:39:58,960
you go to the one of the other 12 or
1,900. I don't I live above my means

2313
02:39:54,560 --> 02:39:58,960
just so I can fit in to go in Mary Oaks.

2314
02:39:59,520 --> 02:40:03,360
» Okay.
>> Can I say one thing

2315
02:40:01,040 --> 02:40:05,600
» Sure. We're not getting ready to close
yet. I'm going to talk first.

2316
02:40:04,680 --> 02:40:07,920
» Well
>> Huh.

2317
02:40:06,400 --> 02:40:09,280
I really like the design.
>> I think

2318
02:40:08,960 --> 02:40:14,520
» Thank you.
>> most everything we've got going

2319
02:40:12,320 --> 02:40:17,480
uh you've come to the table with the
more attractive design.

2320
02:40:16,120 --> 02:40:23,160
» Thank you.
>> But, I have to keep reminding myself

2321
02:40:19,240 --> 02:40:27,640
that whether it's 2,200 or if it's 1,400
we have, at least, I'm going to say

2322
02:40:25,200 --> 02:40:32,400
around 1,600 homes
on the schedule right now.

2323
02:40:30,920 --> 02:40:36,000
And we've, you know, we've talked about
the schools' concerns about filling

2324
02:40:34,120 --> 02:40:41,520
these classrooms.
Those deals that we already have

2325
02:40:39,800 --> 02:40:46,840
on our schedule
is going to make

2326
02:40:43,320 --> 02:40:50,640
a a big impact in the city of Clinton.
And I know most of our focus has been on

2327
02:40:49,000 --> 02:40:55,160
this right now.
But, it seems like we've lost focus on

2328
02:40:53,200 --> 02:41:02,560
these other areas.
But those when we build rooftops where

2329
02:40:59,440 --> 02:41:06,640
we've got already approved
I want somebody to me that's not going

2330
02:41:04,280 --> 02:41:11,280
to impact Clinton
like we're like we're parading this to

2331
02:41:08,880 --> 02:41:11,280
be.

2332
02:41:13,120 --> 02:41:17,360
I'm waiting.
>> I don't understand.

2333
02:41:15,520 --> 02:41:20,840
» What we have already scheduled to be
built in Clinton?

2334
02:41:19,280 --> 02:41:22,480
Do you think it's not going to impact
the city?

2335
02:41:21,520 --> 02:41:27,160
» Of course.
>> All right. How much do we need

2336
02:41:25,680 --> 02:41:30,240
to get to the goals we're trying to
reach?

2337
02:41:28,120 --> 02:41:34,760
Do we want to become
the upper the upper cities that's just

2338
02:41:33,440 --> 02:41:38,320
covered with it?
Or do we want to become the Fort Mills

2339
02:41:36,720 --> 02:41:42,960
that my cousins that live over there
say, "If you can avoid it, please do."

2340
02:41:41,480 --> 02:41:48,000
Or Woodruff,
"If you can avoid it, please do."

2341
02:41:44,680 --> 02:41:50,800
» Well, what we can control is by zoning.
And if we don't

2342
02:41:50,280 --> 02:41:55,120
» we have.
>> If we don't have If we [clears throat]

2343
02:41:53,000 --> 02:42:00,600
are not part of the process, if we don't
annex, we have no say over that zoning.

2344
02:41:57,880 --> 02:42:05,320
And and they can and people can build in
the county and do whatever they want.

2345
02:42:04,240 --> 02:42:10,080
» So, I don't
>> my focus question right now is

2346
02:42:08,040 --> 02:42:15,640
have we not
established

2347
02:42:11,880 --> 02:42:18,960
credibility plans of building homes in
this town

2348
02:42:16,760 --> 02:42:23,440
already?
Signed.

2349
02:42:21,480 --> 02:42:24,600
» I I don't understand your question
>> Okay.

2350
02:42:23,920 --> 02:42:28,080
» about credibility.
>> Okay.

2351
02:42:26,160 --> 02:42:34,280
We've got homes scheduled and they're
building them now at the Commons. 120.

2352
02:42:32,520 --> 02:42:40,000
And then we've got those on Vance
property. How many of those? 300?

2353
02:42:37,440 --> 02:42:42,360
» Vance property was
175 in their [clears throat] first

2354
02:42:42,000 --> 02:42:44,680
phase.
>> First phase.

2355
02:42:43,080 --> 02:42:48,880
» They didn't have any plans for the
second phase.

2356
02:42:44,880 --> 02:42:53,800
» Okay. All right. The uh
The uh Wilder property property?

2357
02:42:52,480 --> 02:42:57,880
» 135 town homes.
>> All right. Then we've got uh

2358
02:42:55,920 --> 02:43:03,080
the Dutton property?
>> That was around 70.

2359
02:43:01,000 --> 02:43:06,440
» And can you tell me what else we've got
cuz we've got to get to 1,500 somewhere.

2360
02:43:05,240 --> 02:43:10,400
» We got Shell Creek.
>> Yeah.

2361
02:43:07,240 --> 02:43:10,400
» That That was

2362
02:43:10,760 --> 02:43:13,840
» Town Mountain
>> 35 Shell

2363
02:43:12,400 --> 02:43:17,600
» Springdale
>> I've got the list.

2364
02:43:15,440 --> 02:43:20,600
» We've got behind Truman orange juice
house over there. No movement on that

2365
02:43:19,880 --> 02:43:23,120
one.
But we've got what?

2366
02:43:22,400 --> 02:43:25,400
» What's up there?
>> They came to us with a preliminary

2367
02:43:25,000 --> 02:43:30,640
» playing
>> And that's one of those that

2368
02:43:27,720 --> 02:43:35,080
the 2-year deal is about up on. So,
it'll can be referred reverted back to

2369
02:43:34,120 --> 02:43:38,160
the
original seller.

2370
02:43:37,240 --> 02:43:41,680
» Okay.
All right. And we've talked about

2371
02:43:39,640 --> 02:43:48,360
traffic. Traffic's been a big concern
about us cleaning this development up.

2372
02:43:45,680 --> 02:43:53,560
The traffic, as I see it,
is not going to be such such a bad spot

2373
02:43:51,640 --> 02:43:58,160
right there where the the the
development's going.

2374
02:43:55,560 --> 02:44:03,640
Those employ Those people are probably
going to be employed either in Columbia

2375
02:44:00,440 --> 02:44:08,120
or in Simpsonville or Spartanburg. Their
pattern of traffic is going to flood

2376
02:44:05,560 --> 02:44:13,480
that ring road.
And the schools like

2377
02:44:10,200 --> 02:44:18,120
uh the uh the grammar school Eastside,
the Pinewood High School,

2378
02:44:15,760 --> 02:44:23,760
the middle school, all those areas are
going to be high-density traffic areas.

2379
02:44:20,880 --> 02:44:29,000
Because those those vehicles are going
to be headed to 385 by 26.

2380
02:44:29,160 --> 02:44:32,120
» Okay.
>> And the ring road right now is

2381
02:44:31,400 --> 02:44:36,040
four-lane.
>> And it is a booger. You You You've been

2382
02:44:34,720 --> 02:44:37,360
out there during school hours?
>> Yes, I have.

2383
02:44:36,720 --> 02:44:40,800
» Okay.
>> Every day.

2384
02:44:38,440 --> 02:44:44,960
» Okay, let me let me
let me say something. It Some point The

2385
02:44:43,640 --> 02:44:48,120
good thing about being in local
government is we get to make all the

2386
02:44:46,400 --> 02:44:51,720
easy decisions.
And

2387
02:44:49,120 --> 02:44:54,040
we get to to hear a lot of different
things.

2388
02:44:52,800 --> 02:44:59,280
One of the things when you're talking
about

2389
02:44:55,440 --> 02:45:05,240
um numbers and about all this traffic, I
just wonder how we how we made it back

2390
02:45:02,040 --> 02:45:10,280
in the '90s because right now we're down
2,000 people

2391
02:45:07,280 --> 02:45:15,200
from '96 when Clanton Mills closed and
Timken closed. And we're projected to go

2392
02:45:12,600 --> 02:45:20,640
down in the next five or seven years
2,000 more. So, you know, we're going to

2393
02:45:18,560 --> 02:45:23,960
go from we're worrying about traffic and
we're not going to have any traffic.

2394
02:45:22,000 --> 02:45:27,040
We're going to be we're we're going to
be

2395
02:45:24,960 --> 02:45:31,960
uh dark.
I've I would

2396
02:45:29,320 --> 02:45:38,200
Everybody that's talked to me and I've
I've talked to folks, you know, I've

2397
02:45:34,440 --> 02:45:43,680
been in this since 1996 and I've uh
it's and it's you always do get um

2398
02:45:42,120 --> 02:45:49,040
everybody that comes to these meetings
is mostly against stuff.

2399
02:45:45,880 --> 02:45:53,400
And but we also I've had numbers and
numbers of folks that have said

2400
02:45:51,280 --> 02:45:58,280
keep going, we're we're doing well, we
want to grow. And we do need to grow. We

2401
02:45:55,680 --> 02:46:03,200
either grow or you die. Is that's my
opinion. I love this place. I'm I'm I'm

2402
02:46:00,800 --> 02:46:08,200
like Fred Chapman used to say, Dr. Fred
Chapman, he said when he was ran for

2403
02:46:05,280 --> 02:46:11,000
school district, he said he was um he
was in line at the grocery store one day

2404
02:46:10,200 --> 02:46:15,280
and
uh he had announced he was going to run

2405
02:46:12,520 --> 02:46:18,560
for school board and he was behind two
ladies in the grocery store and they

2406
02:46:17,120 --> 02:46:22,840
were talking about who was running and
they said some Johnny-come-lately just

2407
02:46:20,480 --> 02:46:28,480
moved here. He'd only been here 20 years
at that point in time. Well, I'm one of

2408
02:46:24,960 --> 02:46:33,280
those 55 to 60-year Johnny-come-latelys
who chose here, raised my children,

2409
02:46:30,920 --> 02:46:39,400
raised my grandchildren, and and love
Clanton. And so, I think, you know, what

2410
02:46:37,360 --> 02:46:44,920
all of us are doing is trying to balance
what's going to be good for Clanton and

2411
02:46:42,080 --> 02:46:49,720
what's not. And and I think this is good
for Clanton. Um

2412
02:46:47,440 --> 02:46:55,400
the traffic Megan
talked about um

2413
02:46:51,960 --> 02:47:00,440
when all we lost um a lot of folks for a
while,

2414
02:46:56,640 --> 02:47:05,160
I I had the idea at one point to add on
to you would talk about would you want

2415
02:47:02,280 --> 02:47:10,680
this near you? Well, my idea was to come
down Maple Street where Thornwell Farm

2416
02:47:07,560 --> 02:47:14,560
is now, but add another block at least
of houses right out there if Thornwell

2417
02:47:12,960 --> 02:47:18,360
would have given up some of that
pasture.

2418
02:47:15,680 --> 02:47:23,000
Um that didn't work obviously, but the
um

2419
02:47:19,080 --> 02:47:27,000
there was a an outcry on having the farm
uh open up. You know, I walk out my

2420
02:47:25,200 --> 02:47:33,200
front door and I can look right right
into everything and it's turned into the

2421
02:47:30,800 --> 02:47:39,280
the only traffic problems we've had is
from the same folks that were that

2422
02:47:36,680 --> 02:47:42,760
drive drove fast before this thing was
built and they've been living there a

2423
02:47:40,680 --> 02:47:48,080
long time and I want to
say anything. They may be kin to me at

2424
02:47:44,840 --> 02:47:51,560
some point. I don't know, but it's it's
um

2425
02:47:49,440 --> 02:47:55,320
it's really been turned out to be a a
good thing.

2426
02:47:52,960 --> 02:47:59,680
One of the things that I've done that
I've heard over the years we've been

2427
02:47:57,320 --> 02:48:04,360
doing economic development, we've been
the first back in 2002 when I first got

2428
02:48:02,800 --> 02:48:08,640
elected mayor,
we were trying to talk to people into

2429
02:48:06,360 --> 02:48:13,080
skipping over Fountain Inn and
Simpsonville and and Gray Court and

2430
02:48:11,280 --> 02:48:18,240
Laurens and coming to Clinton cuz we're
in the located in the absolute best spot

2431
02:48:16,480 --> 02:48:22,800
in the state right here where these two
interstates come together.

2432
02:48:20,120 --> 02:48:27,200
Um manufacturers at that point in time
said, "We'd love to be there, but you

2433
02:48:24,560 --> 02:48:30,680
got no houses. You got no place for
people to live."

2434
02:48:28,760 --> 02:48:36,480
And you know, we're we're answering
that. We're We're not right now

2435
02:48:34,520 --> 02:48:40,760
the houses we've got on the books aren't
going to grow as much. They're going to

2436
02:48:38,120 --> 02:48:45,040
get us hopefully back up to sort of
even.

2437
02:48:41,840 --> 02:48:49,800
You know, it's I'm so I don't you know
the traffic might be more but it might

2438
02:48:47,880 --> 02:48:54,000
be the same as when everybody says we
had this bustling downtown. Well, now

2439
02:48:52,280 --> 02:48:58,640
that you know, we don't have that many
people so downtown doesn't bustle as

2440
02:48:56,440 --> 02:49:02,800
much. Um
I think

2441
02:49:00,560 --> 02:49:06,240
what I entered into all of this for was
to try

2442
02:49:04,840 --> 02:49:12,360
to make us
grow in a smart way

2443
02:49:09,040 --> 02:49:16,160
and so that this place would be fun. It
would be everybody we went to a meeting

2444
02:49:14,520 --> 02:49:21,200
Friday night and everybody said we ain't
got anything to do. And you know, I

2445
02:49:19,160 --> 02:49:25,080
said, well, we're working on that, you
know, restaurants and that kind of thing

2446
02:49:23,240 --> 02:49:29,480
is what everybody wants.
Um all sort of amenities and it requires

2447
02:49:28,120 --> 02:49:34,640
people.
And that's the the the thing Fat's Cafe

2448
02:49:32,880 --> 02:49:40,400
years ago for you know, when it was
running fast, we stood out there to talk

2449
02:49:37,280 --> 02:49:44,720
them into coming here and they said
you don't have enough rooftops. You

2450
02:49:41,840 --> 02:49:49,560
can't make it work. And we finally made
them we finally got them talked them

2451
02:49:46,480 --> 02:49:56,480
into coming and and they realized it you
know, we got 50,000 more people that

2452
02:49:52,000 --> 02:50:00,520
ride by on the interstate. But
it's it's

2453
02:49:57,880 --> 02:50:05,320
the decisions are hard. The decisions
are are the implications are

2454
02:50:04,240 --> 02:50:08,040
um
are

2455
02:50:06,320 --> 02:50:11,840
ch- you know, they change. They're
they're difficult for some folks.

2456
02:50:09,640 --> 02:50:18,200
They're not difficult for other folks.
Um but this this project um I agree with

2457
02:50:15,280 --> 02:50:23,960
Mr. Kirkendall the the is the best plan
we've had, I think. The planning

2458
02:50:20,760 --> 02:50:28,520
commission approved it and we've we've,
you know, I've always voted with the

2459
02:50:26,640 --> 02:50:33,000
planning commission so
um I think it's a it's a good thing.

2460
02:50:31,320 --> 02:50:39,800
It's going to take some work and it's
going to take some, you know, folks

2461
02:50:35,640 --> 02:50:39,800
getting along and understanding, but um

2462
02:50:40,520 --> 02:50:44,000
I think we've talked enough and it's
time to

2463
02:50:43,080 --> 02:50:47,080
» Can I say one more thing?
>> Yeah.

2464
02:50:45,200 --> 02:50:52,320
» And I'd like to speak after Ninnie on
one thing.

2465
02:50:48,320 --> 02:50:56,440
Um we we just received I mean I let me
start out different.

2466
02:50:54,040 --> 02:50:56,440
Um

2467
02:50:56,560 --> 02:51:02,880
we just received all the documents about
the court case in the past I don't know

2468
02:51:01,040 --> 02:51:06,880
I got some of them today. I tried to
read through them as quick as I could.

2469
02:51:04,960 --> 02:51:10,360
Um
I I just want to reiterate I feel like

2470
02:51:08,880 --> 02:51:14,600
and and I would
I would ask the people that are against

2471
02:51:11,800 --> 02:51:18,360
this project to consider also there is
risk involved in this moving forward in

2472
02:51:17,040 --> 02:51:22,280
the county. You may think they have a
great case and they can win, but there

2473
02:51:20,320 --> 02:51:26,600
is risk involved there. They could they
could the appeal could lose and this

2474
02:51:24,840 --> 02:51:30,680
could go forward in the county.
At that time we lose all control over

2475
02:51:29,000 --> 02:51:33,800
the product project. We have no
development agreement.

2476
02:51:32,760 --> 02:51:37,760
We have
I don't think the project they presented

2477
02:51:35,560 --> 02:51:39,880
to the county included some of the
amenities if I'm correct.

2478
02:51:39,200 --> 02:51:43,520
» That's correct.
>> Um

2479
02:51:41,160 --> 02:51:46,640
and we lose all the fees and property
taxes and we still have like we

2480
02:51:44,920 --> 02:51:49,240
discussed we're covering the police and
fire and I know we have a contract and

2481
02:51:48,240 --> 02:51:53,360
things,
but we we essentially lose control of

2482
02:51:51,680 --> 02:51:56,800
the project.
Um

2483
02:51:54,680 --> 02:52:00,640
I I don't know that I have enough
information. I read through the the

2484
02:51:58,440 --> 02:52:03,960
court's finding. I have not seen the
appeal.

2485
02:52:02,000 --> 02:52:09,040
Um maybe that's good information that we
need to to deduct for ourself does the

2486
02:52:06,480 --> 02:52:12,320
county have a chance on this appeal?
Um

2487
02:52:11,000 --> 02:52:16,720
but I feel like that's the most
important thing to consider tonight not

2488
02:52:14,000 --> 02:52:19,640
the merits of the neighborhood because
the merits of the neighborhood we can

2489
02:52:17,880 --> 02:52:24,240
discuss all night and get in the weeds
about lot width and things like that.

2490
02:52:22,920 --> 02:52:28,280
But if it's going to go up in the county
anyway, I I would ask all of us to

2491
02:52:26,360 --> 02:52:30,400
consider what amount of risk are we
willing to take for that?

2492
02:52:29,880 --> 02:52:34,920
» Right.
>> Um because I don't want to see a year or

2493
02:52:32,640 --> 02:52:37,720
two from now the appeal fails and it
goes up and we're thinking well, we

2494
02:52:36,640 --> 02:52:41,880
should have just had it in the city
then. Why did we lose out on all that?

2495
02:52:40,560 --> 02:52:45,800
If there
people on council that feel like they

2496
02:52:43,480 --> 02:52:50,160
don't have a good enough sense of what
the appeal says or what what's going to

2497
02:52:48,160 --> 02:52:54,760
happen how that's going to turn out, I
would change my vote

2498
02:52:51,960 --> 02:52:58,520
to table it. If if we feel like we can
get more information that would help our

2499
02:52:56,280 --> 02:53:01,840
decision because I don't
I'm not comfortable with the level of

2500
02:52:59,880 --> 02:53:05,600
risk right now where I see they're
probably going to win in the county.

2501
02:53:04,440 --> 02:53:07,960
» You say the county you think the
county's going to win or they're going

2502
02:53:06,760 --> 02:53:11,760
to win on appeal?
>> I've only seen what the court said. I

2503
02:53:10,080 --> 02:53:15,400
haven't seen the appeal. But what the
courts what the court sent, they're

2504
02:53:14,000 --> 02:53:18,080
going to have to get it overturned on
three different

2505
02:53:16,720 --> 02:53:19,640
» The authorities
I mean the county

2506
02:53:18,680 --> 02:53:22,520
» What
the county's going to have to get it

2507
02:53:20,680 --> 02:53:26,760
overturned on three different
Is that correct, Mr. Wynn? They have to

2508
02:53:24,560 --> 02:53:29,600
win all three or can they just win one?
>> Well,

2509
02:53:28,600 --> 02:53:34,840
um
And I'll I'll let the developer's

2510
02:53:31,280 --> 02:53:37,800
attorney talk about this, but um
there is no

2511
02:53:36,480 --> 02:53:41,560
you don't have any written material
beyond that court order.

2512
02:53:39,920 --> 02:53:45,520
So, the appeal is just a notice of
appeal

2513
02:53:43,360 --> 02:53:50,080
that's been filed by the county.
And as he mentioned earlier, there will

2514
02:53:47,800 --> 02:53:53,760
be briefs that have to be filed. So so
all that information is it's not there.

2515
02:53:52,520 --> 02:53:56,840
You have
that court order is what is available.

2516
02:53:56,360 --> 02:54:01,520
» Okay.
>> And and that order is where they the

2517
02:53:58,840 --> 02:54:03,440
judge ruled in favor of the developer.
>> Yeah.

2518
02:54:02,040 --> 02:54:06,280
» Um
>> So, would you be able to start the

2519
02:54:04,680 --> 02:54:09,720
process
under that court order?

2520
02:54:08,400 --> 02:54:14,120
» My understanding right now is that we
would be able to start that process. We

2521
02:54:12,080 --> 02:54:19,280
have deemed approval effective as of
June 23rd, 2025. However, I think there

2522
02:54:17,120 --> 02:54:22,200
will be practical implications of trying
to get

2523
02:54:20,720 --> 02:54:27,840
um you know, of
permit from the county while this is

2524
02:54:25,280 --> 02:54:31,480
on appeal. Um however, legally speaking,
my understanding is that we are deemed

2525
02:54:29,680 --> 02:54:35,280
approved and we are entitled to that.
Yes, sir.

2526
02:54:32,640 --> 02:54:38,640
» But they could Could they file a stay?
>> They could attempt.

2527
02:54:37,280 --> 02:54:43,880
I don't know what they would do. I can't
really speak to them, but they may have

2528
02:54:41,520 --> 02:54:47,560
an ability to try to stop that in some
format.

2529
02:54:45,640 --> 02:54:51,480
» Yeah. I mean, I I'll I'll finish with
that. I'm I'm comfortable tabling if we

2530
02:54:49,440 --> 02:54:55,000
feel like we can get more information.
Um

2531
02:54:52,720 --> 02:54:59,720
but but I I think the worst-case
scenario is that it goes up anyway. All

2532
02:54:57,920 --> 02:55:01,200
the people's concerns
are still there.

2533
02:55:00,680 --> 02:55:04,840
» So
>> And it's not in the city.

2534
02:55:02,440 --> 02:55:08,940
» If I may make a clarification,
as far as the initial briefing and what

2535
02:55:06,840 --> 02:55:10,200
would be decided, it would all be based
>> [sighs]

2536
02:55:09,040 --> 02:55:13,360
» on
you know, kind of

2537
02:55:12,000 --> 02:55:17,320
I don't know off the top of my head what
the standard would be for Judge Judge

2538
02:55:15,440 --> 02:55:22,520
Bantz's review, um but it would be
similar to what Judge Bantz did. Uh the

2539
02:55:19,840 --> 02:55:26,120
same arbitrary and capricious analysis.
And they would have to find that Judge

2540
02:55:23,920 --> 02:55:30,800
Bantz abused his discretion or somehow
made an error of law on top of that. So,

2541
02:55:28,520 --> 02:55:35,200
they would not necessarily They would be
doing a review of, you know, again, what

2542
02:55:33,920 --> 02:55:39,240
kind of the same material that was
submitted to Judge Bantz. So, as far as

2543
02:55:36,840 --> 02:55:44,440
new material coming out, uh the record
is set. Um there is, my understanding,

2544
02:55:42,560 --> 02:55:48,360
nothing new can be presented. It's all
based on what was argued to the Planning

2545
02:55:47,200 --> 02:55:53,760
Commission
um and what supported that denial. Uh

2546
02:55:51,400 --> 02:55:56,360
so, to a certain degree, the record is
set.

2547
02:55:55,000 --> 02:56:00,360
Um
>> So, new information

2548
02:55:58,560 --> 02:56:02,800
coming out is
They're reviewing

2549
02:56:02,040 --> 02:56:08,640
this, right?
>> Correct. The record is set.

2550
02:56:06,000 --> 02:56:12,120
» I understand. I I would I would be open
to hearing from a neutral attorney as

2551
02:56:10,320 --> 02:56:17,360
far as like someone that could give an
opinion that I can't make on what chance

2552
02:56:15,320 --> 02:56:20,560
the appeal has. And I I mean, I would
even be interested in hearing from the

2553
02:56:18,640 --> 02:56:24,200
people who are against this project,
what level of risk are you comfortable

2554
02:56:22,240 --> 02:56:27,800
with knowing that we lose all control of
it and we have

2555
02:56:26,240 --> 02:56:31,360
the best chance we have a development
agreement. We have the best chance of

2556
02:56:29,800 --> 02:56:35,920
making sure they do exactly what they
say they're going to do and we lose

2557
02:56:33,600 --> 02:56:41,760
total control
if it doesn't go through the city. So

2558
02:56:38,480 --> 02:56:46,200
I'm I'm saying I'm open to
getting more information where we can.

2559
02:56:43,520 --> 02:56:49,880
» And this is first reading, too. It's
It's It's not It's not the final.

2560
02:56:49,160 --> 02:56:54,200
» Mr. Mayor
>> Good.

2561
02:56:50,440 --> 02:57:00,040
» I'd like to make a motion to table it
for a minimum of 2 weeks from today.

2562
02:56:57,680 --> 02:57:06,000
Not to hear more about the design of the
plan, not to hear more from pro and con

2563
02:57:03,440 --> 02:57:11,640
about why the subdivision is not there,
but to review

2564
02:57:07,920 --> 02:57:16,960
the proposed comprehensive plan
that is out for review,

2565
02:57:15,000 --> 02:57:22,600
to get a copy of the development
agreement that they're willing that they

2566
02:57:19,840 --> 02:57:29,720
presented for us to review and have
legal counsel look at from our side and

2567
02:57:27,120 --> 02:57:36,200
and then have an independent attorney
talk to us a little bit about the

2568
02:57:32,600 --> 02:57:44,120
appellate process.
Not to be pro or con, just to explain

2569
02:57:40,360 --> 02:57:47,600
um what it is for us and then based on
that information

2570
02:57:46,160 --> 02:57:52,560
we
finish the first reading

2571
02:57:49,960 --> 02:57:55,200
to go from there.
>> I would feel way more comfortable with

2572
02:57:53,880 --> 02:57:58,600
that.
>> Can I

2573
02:57:56,040 --> 02:57:58,600
say something?

2574
02:57:58,880 --> 02:58:03,960
Uh Danny, back to your first question. I
meant to

2575
02:58:02,000 --> 02:58:09,000
answer it and I didn't. Um
the development agreement references a

2576
02:58:06,800 --> 02:58:11,680
set of covenants
that

2577
02:58:10,160 --> 02:58:15,840
will run
perpetually unless Council

2578
02:58:14,200 --> 02:58:20,680
chooses to vote differently. So I did
want to point that out. It's a 30-year

2579
02:58:19,200 --> 02:58:25,360
It's actually a 30-year term, but it
automatically extends for 10 years after

2580
02:58:23,240 --> 02:58:29,440
that, successive periods of 10 years,
unless

2581
02:58:27,200 --> 02:58:32,800
council votes to change that. So, the
city is a party to that. I just wanted

2582
02:58:31,520 --> 02:58:35,440
to highlight that cuz that's part of
that

2583
02:58:33,880 --> 02:58:38,160
development agreement. It does have a
set of covenants. So, just for your

2584
02:58:37,000 --> 02:58:40,240
information, I know you were concerned
about the

2585
02:58:39,120 --> 02:58:45,200
um
C or the R3 and the C3.

2586
02:58:43,520 --> 02:58:47,760
» Yeah. Well, and that's the other thing
I'd like

2587
02:58:45,720 --> 02:58:51,320
» say that's that has not been addressed.
>> That's what the other thing I would like

2588
02:58:49,160 --> 02:58:57,360
for the city to come back and and tell
us how quickly that could be

2589
02:58:54,840 --> 02:59:02,480
handled.
>> So, so that was one thing. Now, that is

2590
02:58:59,120 --> 02:59:05,920
not a prohibited use currently in this
draft. That was what I think Mr.

2591
02:59:04,280 --> 02:59:09,400
Leishman sent, but I and I didn't get a
chance to talk to him. Um but, that was

2592
02:59:08,240 --> 02:59:12,160
something that needs to be highlighted.
But, that should answer some of that

2593
02:59:11,360 --> 02:59:16,880
your question.
>> But, to to to Danny's Mr. Smith's point,

2594
02:59:15,200 --> 02:59:23,680
and I'm sorry Danny used your first name
like that. But, to me, we got a lot of

2595
02:59:20,200 --> 02:59:28,040
documents today after 12:00 today that
we were supposed to have prepared, to

2596
02:59:25,680 --> 02:59:34,400
have studied, understood the
ramifications, good or bad, and we were

2597
02:59:31,440 --> 02:59:39,720
getting them that late today. To me, for
us to make an informed decision

2598
02:59:37,400 --> 02:59:43,920
that we feel comfortable for
in our own heart

2599
02:59:42,200 --> 02:59:48,800
and that we feel like is doing the right
decision for this city, then I think we

2600
02:59:46,520 --> 02:59:52,800
need the documents well in advance to
have that informed decision. And then we

2601
02:59:50,440 --> 02:59:56,560
do it more as a work session with this
kind of information at hand.

2602
02:59:54,240 --> 03:00:00,080
» So, to that, you've got a motion and a
second on the floor

2603
02:59:59,000 --> 03:00:02,560
which will have to be dealt with. Now,
you can do a friendly amendment. I can't

2604
03:00:01,440 --> 03:00:06,200
remember who made the motion and who
made the second.

2605
03:00:03,520 --> 03:00:09,880
» I did. Danny did.
>> In other words, before your motion can

2606
03:00:07,960 --> 03:00:12,960
be taken up, that really ought to be the
the motion has on the floor has to be

2607
03:00:11,320 --> 03:00:15,160
dealt with or
>> I can offer a substitute motion, can I

2608
03:00:14,680 --> 03:00:18,600
not?
>> You could do a friendly amendment would

2609
03:00:16,320 --> 03:00:22,120
be the would be the way to do it, but
>> to my original motion?

2610
03:00:20,680 --> 03:00:26,080
» I'm not sure who made the motion.
>> No, Megan made the motion.

2611
03:00:24,640 --> 03:00:30,320
Oh, you're talking about Oh, you're
talking about with first reading A.

2612
03:00:29,120 --> 03:00:33,840
» Correct.
>> I thought a substitute motion could be

2613
03:00:31,800 --> 03:00:38,320
made in the in the middle of a regular
motion and that has to be dealt with

2614
03:00:35,760 --> 03:00:40,040
before a regular motion can be handled.
>> I'd have to check my Robert's Rules of

2615
03:00:39,680 --> 03:00:42,000
Order.
>> Hamburg.

2616
03:00:41,029 --> 03:00:46,040
» [laughter]
>> My understanding is you've got a motion

2617
03:00:43,920 --> 03:00:47,840
and a second on the floor that
>> And was in discussion.

2618
03:00:47,280 --> 03:00:51,200
» discussion.
>> I brought to the floor a new motion and

2619
03:00:50,440 --> 03:00:56,680
it was seconded.
>> think that can if you're not the

2620
03:00:54,120 --> 03:00:59,400
the the motion maker, I don't think you
can offer a sub

2621
03:00:57,240 --> 03:01:03,800
» As a sub A substitute motion can be made
by anyone.

2622
03:01:02,040 --> 03:01:10,240
» I would never
entertain a another motion unless the

2623
03:01:06,400 --> 03:01:15,320
original motion was dealt with and um
and or either amended by the

2624
03:01:13,280 --> 03:01:20,080
the person that made the motion. I mean,
I think that's the proper way to do it.

2625
03:01:17,920 --> 03:01:20,080
So.

2626
03:01:20,320 --> 03:01:26,680
» Should we just
Well, I'll stand by.

2627
03:01:24,560 --> 03:01:28,880
» Well, with this council of six tonight
that

2628
03:01:27,600 --> 03:01:32,280
I'm just saying that
>> Yeah. I I'll

2629
03:01:37,680 --> 03:01:44,560
Are you
Are you all proposing a maximum of 2

2630
03:01:41,440 --> 03:01:48,520
weeks, a minimum of 2 weeks, uh
>> I I was just looking at my calendar. I I

2631
03:01:46,480 --> 03:01:49,800
don't think we need to prolong this long
and on and on.

2632
03:01:49,320 --> 03:01:53,640
» No, uh
>> But I think as long as we're given the

2633
03:01:51,240 --> 03:01:58,320
documentation within the next 3 to 5
working days

2634
03:01:55,280 --> 03:02:03,360
then we should that would give us 7 to 9
days to study it by the 17th or 18th.

2635
03:02:01,200 --> 03:02:06,836
» And well, I'll be gone the last 2 weeks
of August starting the 17th, but some

2636
03:02:05,160 --> 03:02:11,960
people might be glad I'm gone, so.
[laughter]

2637
03:02:08,480 --> 03:02:11,960
And I'll be glad to be gone, too.

2638
03:02:12,360 --> 03:02:16,400
» Okay.
>> Well, that's easy.

2639
03:02:18,240 --> 03:02:22,640
» Um
I

2640
03:02:20,040 --> 03:02:28,000
I I resend my motion
or amend my motion to table it.

2641
03:02:25,920 --> 03:02:28,000
Um

2642
03:02:28,240 --> 03:02:32,160
» For 2 weeks?
>> For 2 weeks.

2643
03:02:30,960 --> 03:02:37,360
» Okay.
Ms. Walsh um

2644
03:02:34,160 --> 03:02:40,280
amends her motion to table this for 2
weeks.

2645
03:02:38,480 --> 03:02:43,680
We'll need a second.
>> You Well, Mr. Smith has to approve it.

2646
03:02:42,800 --> 03:02:48,920
» Oh, I second that.
>> Okay. So, I was thinking he might.

2647
03:02:46,280 --> 03:02:53,120
Okay. Any any further questions or
comments?

2648
03:02:50,760 --> 03:02:56,800
» I do um if you take the 2 weeks, then
I'm just like I just stated, I'm not

2649
03:02:54,560 --> 03:02:59,160
here, so that's kind of just throwing a
boat out the window.

2650
03:02:57,880 --> 03:03:03,680
» Are you gone
>> the 17th the 2 weeks. So, I'll be gone 2

2651
03:03:01,800 --> 03:03:07,000
weeks 17th through the I'm going to
Texas and Alaska.

2652
03:03:04,720 --> 03:03:09,720
» Was 2 weeks part of your motion?
>> It was. I can

2653
03:03:08,080 --> 03:03:12,440
» You can do it before or after. I have no
problem.

2654
03:03:10,200 --> 03:03:15,360
» Let's just say before.
>> That would be one.

2655
03:03:14,400 --> 03:03:17,480
Well, that would give us one.
>> Let's try after.

2656
03:03:16,240 --> 03:03:22,360
» We could just move it to the next
meeting, the 31st.

2657
03:03:19,160 --> 03:03:29,160
» No. Um that I think if we move it to the
31st, that gives us 2 weeks if we decide

2658
03:03:26,520 --> 03:03:32,200
in part five of this meeting that we
move our September

2659
03:03:30,200 --> 03:03:35,760
» we just table the dagum thing?
>> That would be table to that.

2660
03:03:33,560 --> 03:03:37,480
» That is table to it. You got to
>> address it in

2661
03:03:36,800 --> 03:03:43,600
2 weeks.
>> Okay. She's saying August 31st.

2662
03:03:39,840 --> 03:03:46,040
» You'll be back by August 31st.
>> I don't care.

2663
03:03:44,560 --> 03:03:51,520
» When will you be back?
>> We'll be gone on the

2664
03:03:48,680 --> 03:03:54,280
» We can find a day but I think I think we
need to make sure it's a time where we

2665
03:03:52,760 --> 03:03:58,120
can all meet and that's the important
part. I don't think it would look I

2666
03:03:56,280 --> 03:03:59,680
don't think it's right to table and then
come back without.

2667
03:03:59,080 --> 03:04:02,640
» I agree.
>> Ms. Coggins to

2668
03:04:00,640 --> 03:04:05,800
» We wait? till the time that every
council member is available.

2669
03:04:05,120 --> 03:04:08,320
» I second that.
>> the rules

2670
03:04:07,360 --> 03:04:10,632
» We want you here.
>> She made a motion. What do you want to

2671
03:04:09,320 --> 03:04:13,080
make her do?
>> [laughter]

2672
03:04:12,120 --> 03:04:14,280
» I'm good. Whatever.
>> Okay.

2673
03:04:13,520 --> 03:04:18,960
» Y'all go ahead.
>> Well, that would be what we're voting

2674
03:04:15,920 --> 03:04:23,760
on, that we would table this to a time
that is mutually beneficial

2675
03:04:21,480 --> 03:04:26,520
to all seven council members.
>> Okay.

2676
03:04:24,960 --> 03:04:28,440
And we have a second.
>> Second.

2677
03:04:27,480 --> 03:04:31,480
» Okay.
Anything else?

2678
03:04:32,240 --> 03:04:36,760
If not, all in favor, please say aye.
>> Aye.

2679
03:04:35,080 --> 03:04:42,280
» All opposed, no.
Motion carries.

2680
03:04:39,360 --> 03:04:45,040
So, we are tabled until
>> So, what do [clears throat] we set a day

2681
03:04:43,640 --> 03:04:48,680
or no, we just table it until we find
>> We table this till we find a day. We're

2682
03:04:47,280 --> 03:04:51,120
not going to sit here and scrap it
around right now.

2683
03:04:49,840 --> 03:04:54,000
» We will have to find a day cuz one of
our members is out.

2684
03:04:55,173 --> 03:04:57,192
» [clears throat]

2685
03:05:05,640 --> 03:05:15,840
» All right. Next Next order of business
is Mr.

2686
03:05:12,880 --> 03:05:15,840
» Say it again.

2687
03:05:16,960 --> 03:05:20,520
» We're still meeting. Thank you.

2688
03:05:22,280 --> 03:05:29,400
Please exit quietly. We're still in a
meeting. We We're still got other stuff

2689
03:05:26,400 --> 03:05:29,400
to talk about.

2690
03:05:30,000 --> 03:05:35,000
» Thank you, sir.
Um

2691
03:05:32,360 --> 03:05:40,240
the next item on the agenda is for city
council to consider amending

2692
03:05:37,760 --> 03:05:46,918
uh of the agreement
memorandum of agreement with the YMCA.

2693
03:05:43,400 --> 03:05:48,760
Um the reason I'm asking for this is
>> [clears throat]

2694
03:05:47,960 --> 03:05:55,400
» um
several months ago when we were

2695
03:05:51,880 --> 03:05:59,680
working on building the
recreation complex and most importantly,

2696
03:05:58,040 --> 03:06:05,040
the baseball fields.
We had a gentleman on staff that was up

2697
03:06:02,920 --> 03:06:09,440
to speed, up to date on everything we
needed to do with

2698
03:06:06,840 --> 03:06:13,400
keeping the baseball fields
playable, and that's a year-round

2699
03:06:12,200 --> 03:06:16,920
um
task.

2700
03:06:14,920 --> 03:06:22,000
Um even though they may not be played on
in the you know, in the cold of winter,

2701
03:06:19,120 --> 03:06:26,840
but they still have to be taken care of.
We lost that gentleman uh

2702
03:06:24,760 --> 03:06:31,880
in December of this year
December of last year.

2703
03:06:28,880 --> 03:06:35,920
And so, I've been working with the YMCA,
and they have someone on staff. They

2704
03:06:34,240 --> 03:06:39,440
have a couple of guys on staff there
that are capable of doing what we need

2705
03:06:37,880 --> 03:06:44,840
to do.
And I am requesting that we amend this

2706
03:06:41,920 --> 03:06:49,560
agreement with the YMCA and give them
54,000

2707
03:06:46,960 --> 03:06:56,720
in additional funds uh in addition to
what the 223,000 we're giving them now

2708
03:06:53,920 --> 03:07:01,560
in order for those two gentlemen to help
us uh keep up the uh

2709
03:06:59,840 --> 03:07:05,240
baseball fields at the recreation
complex.

2710
03:07:02,800 --> 03:07:12,120
And as time allows during those those
days that they're there, they will also

2711
03:07:07,720 --> 03:07:18,160
perform other duties as needed.
>> Okay, we have a recommendation from

2712
03:07:14,760 --> 03:07:23,280
staff to uh amend the YMCA memo-
memorandum of agreement to make sure we

2713
03:07:20,920 --> 03:07:27,600
can take care of our um
our municipal um

2714
03:07:26,120 --> 03:07:31,560
ball fields.
I have a motion, Mr. Kirkendall second

2715
03:07:29,720 --> 03:07:34,400
from Mr. Smith.
Uh

2716
03:07:32,400 --> 03:07:38,270
questions or comments? I think it's a
good idea.

2717
03:07:35,360 --> 03:07:41,400
» Have have have you completely
>> [clears throat]

2718
03:07:38,480 --> 03:07:46,880
» in your figures, this 54,000?
Does it Does that include

2719
03:07:43,640 --> 03:07:50,360
I mean, this it being a new
position.

2720
03:07:48,560 --> 03:07:53,160
Have Has everything been studied pretty
good about what it's going to really

2721
03:07:51,960 --> 03:07:57,000
take
to have that person there.

2722
03:07:54,240 --> 03:08:04,000
» They would just provide us with labor to
keep those fields. Our budget is in the

2723
03:08:00,120 --> 03:08:08,320
city's parks and recreation department.
It's funded what we need to do to keep

2724
03:08:06,480 --> 03:08:11,760
those fields up.
They will drag them.

2725
03:08:10,000 --> 03:08:15,120
They will keep the grass cut. They will
make sure the grass is fertilized and

2726
03:08:13,560 --> 03:08:20,160
weeded
as as needed. And they will be there to

2727
03:08:17,800 --> 03:08:25,120
line those baseball fields
when we have games, between games,

2728
03:08:22,440 --> 03:08:27,400
whatever is needed.
>> Yeah.

2729
03:08:26,400 --> 03:08:29,520
» So, yes, sir.
>> Uh

2730
03:08:28,320 --> 03:08:34,000
I just know
it being such a new position, we've

2731
03:08:31,600 --> 03:08:35,880
never owned the recreation facilities
such as this.

2732
03:08:35,000 --> 03:08:40,640
» Right.
>> And uh that that 54 could

2733
03:08:39,520 --> 03:08:43,680
may not be enough.
>> Well,

2734
03:08:41,680 --> 03:08:48,040
it labor-wise
labor-wise, uh right now, yes, it will.

2735
03:08:46,560 --> 03:08:52,920
And there is
some more uh things that we'll bring to

2736
03:08:50,760 --> 03:08:58,160
you later on as they develop, but
there's a possibility at some point down

2737
03:08:54,960 --> 03:09:01,440
the road those fields may be turfed.
So,

2738
03:08:59,840 --> 03:09:05,600
we would you know, they would still need
some attention, but not

2739
03:09:03,680 --> 03:09:08,600
what they get what they will have to
have right now with having dirt and

2740
03:09:07,960 --> 03:09:12,200
grass.
>> So, would

2741
03:09:09,600 --> 03:09:15,680
would this have to be um
renewed annually?

2742
03:09:13,360 --> 03:09:19,960
» Yes, ma'am.
>> I just want to I know there has been

2743
03:09:17,960 --> 03:09:23,800
some comment some
There have been comments in the past

2744
03:09:21,360 --> 03:09:27,200
about how much money we give the Y. What
What's our monthly and then yearly

2745
03:09:26,560 --> 03:09:34,760
um
>> It's $18,000 a month. It's

2746
03:09:30,680 --> 03:09:37,600
18,500 at this time for $222,000
is what's budgeted uh in this year's

2747
03:09:37,080 --> 03:09:41,920
budget.
>> Okay. And I just I just want to I I mean

2748
03:09:40,360 --> 03:09:50,840
I was um
previously on the Y board um and

2749
03:09:46,560 --> 03:09:53,160
I I that number has not changed in
20 years?

2750
03:09:51,840 --> 03:09:56,680
» It's been quite a while.
>> At least 15.

2751
03:09:54,520 --> 03:09:59,640
» He's averaged this the last 2 years.
>> Okay.

2752
03:09:57,200 --> 03:10:00,960
» He raised it $500 a month last year and
then this year.

2753
03:10:00,480 --> 03:10:05,520
» Okay.
>> So, we have tried to address that.

2754
03:10:02,720 --> 03:10:07,680
» Yeah. Yes, my point is it's not been
>> It's not drastic. We have tried to

2755
03:10:07,040 --> 03:10:11,760
address it.
>> Um so, I I just want it on the record

2756
03:10:10,600 --> 03:10:14,840
that
um

2757
03:10:12,800 --> 03:10:20,440
And these are from um
Mr. Nichols, the the head of the Y that

2758
03:10:18,400 --> 03:10:27,520
And this does not include all the Our
prog- Our money is specifically for

2759
03:10:23,040 --> 03:10:33,080
sports programming, correct? Um
They've spent 330,000

2760
03:10:30,920 --> 03:10:39,760
year-to-date for this
calendar year. I I assume they go by um

2761
03:10:37,200 --> 03:10:45,880
a fiscal year of the calendar year. So,
they're 3/4 of the way through their

2762
03:10:41,720 --> 03:10:51,000
year on um programming, which includes
all of um the sports plus some senior

2763
03:10:49,400 --> 03:10:54,200
programming,
um

2764
03:10:51,720 --> 03:10:58,840
adult health wellness programming, which
are things some some cities are able to

2765
03:10:56,320 --> 03:11:02,520
provide. We don't currently provide. So,
I

2766
03:11:00,680 --> 03:11:05,760
I just want to say that every bit of
money that we send them

2767
03:11:04,600 --> 03:11:09,837
» Yes, we all speak to
>> is being spent on the things we intend

2768
03:11:08,440 --> 03:11:11,920
for them to spend it on.
>> [cough]

2769
03:11:09,920 --> 03:11:15,600
» I just want that on the record.
>> I was going to ask, too, is there a job

2770
03:11:14,280 --> 03:11:19,000
description
for that position?

2771
03:11:17,120 --> 03:11:24,640
» We are working on one at this time. I
think the Y M C A already has one.

2772
03:11:22,000 --> 03:11:29,160
But, since we will That person is
employed by the Y.

2773
03:11:27,040 --> 03:11:34,520
So, for the additional work, we're going
to give them the $54,000

2774
03:11:32,360 --> 03:11:36,760
to pay that person.
They will not be an employee of the

2775
03:11:36,160 --> 03:11:40,760
city.
>> So, we're just doing a contract with Y

2776
03:11:39,600 --> 03:11:45,080
to do the S. just
>> just part of that Y M city contract.

2777
03:11:42,840 --> 03:11:47,960
We're not really a hiring a person.
>> Exactly.

2778
03:11:45,800 --> 03:11:49,080
» I think that that takes us out of all of
it.

2779
03:11:48,000 --> 03:11:52,160
» Yeah, we don't have to worry about any
of that kind of stuff.

2780
03:11:51,120 --> 03:11:56,160
» Well, insurance.
>> Insurance, benefits, benefits for them.

2781
03:11:54,920 --> 03:11:59,320
» Where are we going to get the I mean,
then just saying I'm not being smart,

2782
03:11:57,800 --> 03:12:03,520
you know, but saying we're broke, you
know, where is where we I mean, just

2783
03:12:01,280 --> 03:12:06,600
being You know, say can't afford a dog
catcher and all that. And I'm on the Y

2784
03:12:05,080 --> 03:12:09,560
board. I'm you know, if for anything,
but where are we going to get 54,000 to

2785
03:12:09,080 --> 03:12:11,520
give it?
>> We have a

2786
03:12:10,160 --> 03:12:14,200
» budgeted
um

2787
03:12:12,120 --> 03:12:20,120
position in the parks and recreation
complex that is not filled right now.

2788
03:12:17,160 --> 03:12:23,040
So, we're going to use that position
to fund this with the Y.

2789
03:12:21,920 --> 03:12:28,920
» But then okay, and just like you're
saying, if John does decide to turf it,

2790
03:12:25,960 --> 03:12:32,400
this is we can start over with giving
them just an additional 20,000 versus we

2791
03:12:31,080 --> 03:12:36,800
don't have to stick with this additional
54,000. If John turfs the fields, you

2792
03:12:34,680 --> 03:12:40,720
said it's for a year. If John decides to
turf those fields, and they don't need

2793
03:12:38,160 --> 03:12:43,480
that maintenance for 54,000 a year, I'm
saying are we going to have to continue

2794
03:12:42,000 --> 03:12:49,880
to pay that 54,000?
>> No. We will We will work Harold and I

2795
03:12:46,600 --> 03:12:52,360
will work on this agreement every year
going forward.

2796
03:12:50,800 --> 03:12:57,360
» But just like to now, they got two
maintenance guys, uh Jason and Tommy,

2797
03:12:54,520 --> 03:13:01,520
but like people like pay to play sports.
Um you know,

2798
03:12:59,720 --> 03:13:07,440
they're going to use that to pay them I
mean, do you honestly feel like the 54

2799
03:13:03,880 --> 03:13:09,600
is the number? I mean, not 25.
>> I've talked with

2800
03:13:09,040 --> 03:13:16,120
um
Brian and Harold about this, and that's

2801
03:13:12,760 --> 03:13:16,120
the number that we came up with.

2802
03:13:18,320 --> 03:13:21,480
» All right. Um

2803
03:13:21,493 --> 03:13:24,113
» [clears throat]
>> I can't remember

2804
03:13:23,040 --> 03:13:25,360
» We have to vote on it.
>> [laughter]

2805
03:13:24,480 --> 03:13:28,080
» Where we are. Okay.
>> We have to vote.

2806
03:13:25,840 --> 03:13:33,040
» All in favor, please say aye.
All opposed, no.

2807
03:13:29,880 --> 03:13:38,040
And the motion carries. All right. Uh
the next item on the agenda the agenda,

2808
03:13:35,880 --> 03:13:43,120
I hope will be the easiest.
Um

2809
03:13:39,520 --> 03:13:47,640
Um as we set our agenda this year, uh we
inadvertently named September the 7th as

2810
03:13:46,040 --> 03:13:52,160
a meeting date.
I don't think anyone wants to come on

2811
03:13:49,280 --> 03:13:56,880
Labor Day and and meet, so I'm
requesting that we move that day until

2812
03:13:55,000 --> 03:14:01,600
September the 14th, which is the
following Monday.

2813
03:13:59,400 --> 03:14:04,320
» Okay, we have recommendation to move our
meeting from Labor Day to September the

2814
03:14:03,440 --> 03:14:07,120
14th.
>> So moved.

2815
03:14:04,920 --> 03:14:10,240
» There's a motion from Mr. Cook's motion.
>> Second.

2816
03:14:07,880 --> 03:14:15,000
» Second from Mr. Kirkendall.
Um

2817
03:14:12,680 --> 03:14:17,160
Any questions or comments?
Now all in favor, please say aye.

2818
03:14:16,520 --> 03:14:20,400
» Aye.
>> All opposed, no.

2819
03:14:18,720 --> 03:14:26,160
And
we are moved there.

2820
03:14:23,600 --> 03:14:31,200
» Next item on the agenda is for council
to consider a work session date. There's

2821
03:14:28,600 --> 03:14:34,480
several of you at at some point over the
last year has

2822
03:14:32,880 --> 03:14:40,280
has requested that we do some work
sessions. And we we conduct some

2823
03:14:37,000 --> 03:14:43,040
some talks about some things that
may

2824
03:14:41,320 --> 03:14:46,240
normally take a long time for us to
discuss in a council meeting.

2825
03:14:44,920 --> 03:14:53,120
And so
um

2826
03:14:47,800 --> 03:14:56,960
I have August the 17th, 18th, and 20th
for those dates.

2827
03:14:53,920 --> 03:14:59,640
» Miss Cogsdill will be gone.
>> That's okay.

2828
03:14:58,720 --> 03:15:02,080
» No, no, no,
you don't you don't get out of this.

2829
03:15:01,200 --> 03:15:04,329
Uh-uh.
>> I promise I I can miss the other one as

2830
03:15:03,760 --> 03:15:06,920
well.
>> [laughter]

2831
03:15:04,760 --> 03:15:14,160
» Did he say 17, 18, 19?
>> 7, 18, and 20. I think the 19th was a a

2832
03:15:11,120 --> 03:15:16,440
Wednesday, if I remember correctly.
>> And

2833
03:15:15,080 --> 03:15:18,360
Oh, August. I'm in the wrong month.
Okay.

2834
03:15:17,360 --> 03:15:21,200
» It is August.
>> Okay.

2835
03:15:19,560 --> 03:15:26,160
That's Yeah, I was looking at Friday and
Saturday. Like, what?

2836
03:15:24,240 --> 03:15:29,760
» And that's just a work session, so we
won't take any action. Should you should

2837
03:15:28,040 --> 03:15:31,560
be able to be back in
>> You you'll be

2838
03:15:30,520 --> 03:15:34,120
» I can do both of them, though.
>> You can watch us on YouTube.

2839
03:15:33,560 --> 03:15:38,120
» Yeah.
>> I almost had you, okay.

2840
03:15:36,640 --> 03:15:42,160
» So, I'm you know, I'm looking at
discussing today. We're going to have a

2841
03:15:39,720 --> 03:15:44,720
decent CCDC meeting here in just a few
days.

2842
03:15:46,640 --> 03:15:52,680
» I'm okay on the 17th or 18th. I can't do
the 19th, but I'm good on those.

2843
03:15:51,680 --> 03:15:56,920
Monday or Tuesday?
>> 17th, 18th, or 20th.

2844
03:15:54,640 --> 03:16:00,480
» Oh, I'm sorry. I I'm good on any one of
those three days.

2845
03:15:57,480 --> 03:16:07,040
» What time we talking about doing that?
>> 6:00.

2846
03:16:02,160 --> 03:16:07,040
» Do we do it at 5:00? Is that too early?

2847
03:16:07,440 --> 03:16:15,200
Natalie won't be here. She's usually
the one that, you know, still

2848
03:16:12,680 --> 03:16:18,400
especially 17th Oh, yeah. I forgot about
Gary. He works, too.

2849
03:16:19,440 --> 03:16:24,200
You're way
>> How about the 17th?

2850
03:16:21,920 --> 03:16:27,320
» Is
Is 5:00 too early for you, Gary?

2851
03:16:26,320 --> 03:16:30,320
» No, I'll slip out.
>> He can do what he wants to do.

2852
03:16:31,680 --> 03:16:34,160
» All right.
>> Wait a minute.

2853
03:16:32,880 --> 03:16:38,920
» We'll do it uh Monday
>> Let me put it on my calendar.

2854
03:16:35,200 --> 03:16:42,200
» 17th at 5:00 p.m.
And I won't keep you for long.

2855
03:16:43,120 --> 03:16:45,840
» On Monday?

2856
03:16:49,120 --> 03:16:54,920
We'll be done by 7:00, right?
I got to say something.

2857
03:16:57,160 --> 03:16:59,960
» You want to do it Tuesday?

2858
03:17:00,000 --> 03:17:05,520
» Like I said, we're you know, talking
about the CCDC.

2859
03:17:03,360 --> 03:17:09,600
Um I've got some other things that I'll
I'll send out that that we want

2860
03:17:07,960 --> 03:17:14,280
we want to talk about and then there's
anything that

2861
03:17:12,040 --> 03:17:18,360
either of you would like for us to
discuss and get bring you information

2862
03:17:16,160 --> 03:17:22,080
on, just let me know and we'll we'll get
that taken care of on Tuesday.

2863
03:17:20,520 --> 03:17:26,560
Um
Mayor, that's that's all I have for

2864
03:17:24,200 --> 03:17:26,560
tonight.

2865
03:17:28,360 --> 03:17:30,760
» Okay.

2866
03:17:32,640 --> 03:17:35,560
Y'all really want to do reports and
recommendations?

2867
03:17:35,080 --> 03:17:36,720
» Nope.
>> Nope.

2868
03:17:36,040 --> 03:17:41,680
» No.
Everything's good, Carl.

2869
03:17:38,880 --> 03:17:41,680
» Yeah, we're broke.

2870
03:17:41,760 --> 03:17:47,120
» I want to say that.
>> No, my comment was taken out of context

2871
03:17:45,480 --> 03:17:48,760
cuz in my comment never said the city
was broke.

2872
03:17:47,680 --> 03:17:49,320
» I don't think you did weren't the one
that said it.

2873
03:17:49,120 --> 03:17:51,640
» it.
>> You weren't the one that said it.

2874
03:17:50,160 --> 03:17:55,640
» Yeah, you weren't the one that said it.
>> Well, I was quoted that says in the in

2875
03:17:54,000 --> 03:17:58,760
the chronicle saying
>> Oh, really?

2876
03:17:56,440 --> 03:18:00,200
» No, you were not the one that Well, it
was said.

2877
03:17:59,120 --> 03:18:04,400
» Yeah, [laughter] that didn't come from
this council meeting.

2878
03:18:01,320 --> 03:18:04,400
» I only got read about it in

2879
03:18:04,680 --> 03:18:10,080
» All right.
So, we'll enter uh entertain a motion to

2880
03:18:09,120 --> 03:18:11,160
adjourn.
>> So moved.

2881
03:18:10,760 --> 03:18:14,840
» Second.
>> Have a motion from Mr. Kirkendall and a

2882
03:18:12,880 --> 03:18:17,760
second from Mr. Smith.
All in favor, please