Okay, the hour of 6:30 having arrived,
I'd like to call the regular plan
commission meeting for the city of
Columbus to order.
Mike, will you call the roll?
» Binkler
>> Here.
» Here.
>> Myers
» Myers
>> Here.
» That was weird.
Albright
>> Present.
» Present.
>> Uriah
» Uriah
>> Present.
» Present.
>> Juszkiewicz
» Juszkiewicz
>> Here.
» Here.
>> Stuke
» Stuke
>> Here.
» Here.
>> We have a quorum. Great.
» We have a quorum. Great.
>> [sighs and gasps]
» [sighs and gasps]
>> Okay, this meeting was properly posted
» Okay, this meeting was properly posted
in accordance with state law.
Uh there's a agenda in your packets.
I'll entertain a motion to approve or
amend.
>> I'll move to approve.
» I'll move to approve.
>> Second.
» Second.
>> I have a motion and a second. All those
» I have a motion and a second. All those
in favor signify by I.
>> I.
» I.
>> I.
» I.
>> Opposed?
» Opposed?
We have our agenda.
Uh minutes are also in your packet from
last month.
I'll entertain a motion to approve or
amend.
» I'd make a motion to approve.
» I'll second that.
>> I have a motion and a second. Any
» I have a motion and a second. Any
discussion?
All those in favor signify by I.
>> I.
» I.
>> I.
» I.
>> Opposed?
» Opposed?
Minutes are approved.
Okay, moving on to our first item of
regular business. We have a public
hearing regarding the amendment of
parking spaces requirements
section 114-26.
All right, I'll open the public hearing
and ask if any member of the public
wishes to speak on this item.
For a second time, does any member of
the public wish to speak on this item?
Mike, was anything sent to you?
>> No.
» No.
>> Okay.
» Okay.
>> Nothing.
» Nothing.
>> Receive no comments.
» Receive no comments.
>> Okay.
» Okay.
>> And for a final time, any member of the
» And for a final time, any member of the
public wishing to speak on this item.
Hearing none, I'll close the public
hearing and move on to item three for
the commission to consider and take
action regarding the repeal and
replacement of municipal code 114-126
regarding required parking spaces.
>> Um this is
» Um this is
what we discussed
uh
pre- previously earlier in the year. The
reason we're doing this separate is to
support uh WEDA programs for residential
housing in in downtown.
Um that application period is
in October and beginning in November.
So, if we don't get this adopted now,
then then people aren't eligible for low
interest loans for downtown uh project
redevelopment projects.
Um so, this is one of the items on
today's agenda that helps to move us
allow
people to access those low interest loan
funds.
So,
um this is essentially what we discussed
previously. Um
uh
This is just the parking space amendment
to the section of the parking code that
addresses number of parking spaces
required. It doesn't address other
parking stuff. So,
um we're trying to keep it simple and
still
meet the requirements for uh WEDA
financing. So,
um
Any questions?
» Questions? You know, we've we've talked
about this at length, so.
Um, all right. Well, for that reason,
if there's no comment or discussion,
I'll entertain a motion to
uh, recommend to council.
>> I'll move to recommend to council for
» I'll move to recommend to council for
approval.
>> I'll second.
» I'll second.
>> Have a motion and a second.
» Have a motion and a second.
All those in favor signify by saying I.
>> I.
» I.
>> I.
» I.
>> Opposed?
» Opposed?
Great.
Please forward to council.
All right.
More organization is necessary. Hang on
just a moment.
Okay.
Uh, moving on to item four, consider and
take action regarding the condominium
plat for Lamps Landing LLC located on
Tower Drive.
All right. Mike, you want to introduce
your staff report here?
>> Yeah, um,
» Yeah, um,
this is uh,
the
eight twin home units, four buildings,
eight dwelling units.
Um, previously you approved the CSM
um,
with conditions, um, and we just
uh, took
that CSM, the uh, changes have been
received recently, so we're checking
those over.
Um,
we also have items in the review letter
for the condo plat from our city
engineer. Um, about a half hour ago we
received an updated condo plat
um, addressing many of those things.
Uh, we haven't had time to look those
over, but uh they are moving forward
with trying to get that um done. Um
So, essentially, there's uh um you can
kind of see also see the future layout
of the apartment um
to the north, but that's not the issue
today. It's the twin homes um
and the platting of that, and uh our
city engineer uh provided comments
um
that need to be addressed, and uh
uh
You know, you can see it includes
stormwater
um
Uh the development agreement, you know,
limited access to Tower Drive to two
driveways because of traffic concerns on
Tower, so this would be one of the two
driveways.
Um
Any questions?
>> How are they owned?
» How are they owned?
>> Uh twin homes uh through a condominium
» Uh twin homes uh through a condominium
association.
>> Okay.
» They considered town homes?
Because there are two, or no?
>> They're considered twin homes.
» They're considered twin homes.
>> Okay.
» Like a duplex, except not,
probably.
>> No, I I don't recall us ever calling
» No, I I don't recall us ever calling
them
>> I don't
» I don't
That's all.
» Is the legal arrangement that defines
what the common areas are and the
private areas are? Is that all part of
the condo plat that we're approving
tonight, or is that a separate
instrument?
» Um
That would That would be separate
instrument.
Um
I'd have to pull up the review letter. I
thought maybe that was addressed in
there.
Um
But yeah
um
that would be
addressed in there um
Let me just pull up the review letter
and see what else.
» Cuz there's always a lot of moving
parts, right? There's the There's the
legal record of the the
the condo plat. There's the site plan
which we're not we're not reviewing.
>> They still need to uh include covenants
» They still need to uh include covenants
and those kinds of things too uh that
that that should be part of the condo
plat.
Um and Josh is online.
>> Yep, I'm here.
» Yep, I'm here.
>> There he is.
» There he is.
>> Yep, I'm here.
» Yep, I'm here.
You know, Mike, I have all the condo
docs. All that stuff's done and uh I can
send it to you. You know, it's it's set
up just like a normal small condo
association set up.
» I I guess my question is that is that
part of
the plat itself?
>> No. Typically, I mean, the city council
» No. Typically, I mean, the city council
would approve that portion, I would
think. You know, that's how they did it
in Windsor and Deforest, but I've never
done a condo project in Columbus.
It's pretty straightforward. I mean, I I
I'd rather have an apartment building
there, but that's what you guys wanted
me to put there, so.
>> Yeah, I mean, I understand it's I
» Yeah, I mean, I understand it's I
understand the documents are not
complicated. I I guess what I'm trying
to make sure that I'm asking is that
if this if the
recorded part of the
condo agreement is part of the plat
then doesn't it stand to reason that it
should be in front of us here for
>> I don't know what you're going to do
» I don't know what you're going to do
with the
I don't know what you're going to do
with the condominium documents, but
I mean, they were sent
they were done 2 months ago.
Like I said, if this doesn't get taken
care of and approved, I'm not going to
do this stuff till next year. So, I I
build stuff in the fall, so it's done in
the summer. That's my timeline. And if
if it's not going to work, then we'll
just revisit next year.
I'll start my SunPrairie project then.
>> I understand. I'm not trying to be
» I understand. I'm not trying to be
combative. I'm trying to make sure that
>> I'm not trying to be combative either,
» I'm not trying to be combative either,
but what's supposed to be in front of us
here? I told the city of Columbus when I
bought this property from them that I
wanted to do this this year. I mean,
there there is a need for housing in
Columbus. I mean, those 45 apartments
rented out in 30 days.
And if we can't figure that out, then we
might as well just get our ducks in a
row and do this in uh 2028.
» Will you give us a minute?
>> Sure.
» Sure.
>> Great.
» Um
we shared this with the city engineer,
and I don't see any
uh
comments regarding that.
Um
This is middle of real car.
This may not include all city
requirements for the submittal.
Right. Right.
» The
council, are we
are we actually approving or is it are
we recommending?
Council
>> We're recommending.
» We're recommending.
>> Right. You're recommending.
» Right. You're recommending.
>> Yeah, it's going to council.
» Yeah, it's going to council.
>> Um right. Land division still goes to
» Um right. Land division still goes to
council. Yeah.
>> I mean a motion could be made depending
» I mean a motion could be made depending
on any additional requirements.
Right?
Can I just ask a question, Uriah?
>> Yeah.
» Yeah.
>> Is it required to have the condo
» Is it required to have the condo
agreement
>> know. My question was a honest question
» know. My question was a honest question
that was not intended to be any kind of
gotcha.
>> Right. Right. You're just trying to ask
» Right. Right. You're just trying to ask
if it is required.
>> Right. Is if it's part of the condo plat
» Right. Is if it's part of the condo plat
then
it stands to reason that it should be
part of this packet part of this
consideration.
» [snorts]
>> Um
» Um
So, my I guess I do have a So, why do we
think there's a possibility that would
have to be in the development phase? To
me, that seems like that's closer to the
you know um
or when the buildings are up or almost
up. You know what I'm saying? Like this
is like pre-development.
>> Yeah.
» Yeah.
>> I'm wondering why Why would that be a
» I'm wondering why Why would that be a
concern in pre-development versus what
during the development phase? Or towards
the end.
>> To me, this is also similar, you know,
» To me, this is also similar, you know,
condominium documents are about the
ownership of the property, not the
layout of the property.
>> Okay.
» Okay.
>> And uh our city attorney really
» And uh our city attorney really
I think in the past has not had like,
you know, a single-family traditional
development did not want the city
approving the covenants that go with
that cuz that's really the developer's
document for guide, you know, uh it's
more of a private document.
>> Right.
» Right.
>> So, to in my mind, that would be in line
» So, to in my mind, that would be in line
>> According to Google
» According to Google
it they do not go together.
>> Okay.
» Okay.
>> I mean, for what it's worth. It was a
» I mean, for what it's worth. It was a
quick Google search.
>> [laughter]
» [laughter]
>> Sure. All right.
» Sure. All right.
Uh like I said, I'm just trying to make
sure that we're
>> No, he's
» No, he's
>> that we've we've got all this stuff
» that we've we've got all this stuff
aired out in public
>> I can double-check if if if you want to
» I can double-check if if if you want to
forward it on
for approval to council. I can double
check with
the city attorney in between now
and the
What is it? September 5th?
>> Sure.
» Sure.
I'm satisfied with that.
» We can address it that way, too.
>> Okay.
» Okay.
>> So we we talked about the fourplex.
That was that was
presented to do us before.
» And is is the
>> This is the This is the first time this
» This is the This is the first time this
has been presented to the planning
commission as a development project.
There's been no development plans for
the twin homes previously till tonight.
>> Okay.
» Okay.
>> Mhm. But we saw something for the
» Mhm. But we saw something for the
apartment building.
» There's been no development plans for
the apartment building as of
>> We've seen ideas.
» We've seen ideas.
and ideas.
>> conceptual ideas that were included in
» conceptual ideas that were included in
the request for proposal.
>> That's what I was just going to say
» That's what I was just going to say
that.
>> That's not development plans at all.
» That's not development plans at all.
>> Okay. I guess I thought I would thought
» Okay. I guess I thought I would thought
I remember certified site map, but maybe
I'm wrong. That's what this is, right? I
mean
>> All right, let me Let me
» All right, let me Let me
>> All right, yeah. Real estate
» All right, yeah. Real estate
>> Previous previous at the July meeting,
» Previous previous at the July meeting,
you recommended approval of the
certified survey map which splits the
parcel into three three parcels.
>> Oh, yeah.
» Oh, yeah.
>> One for the apartment, the middle one
» One for the apartment, the middle one
for the twin homes, and the
bottom one for parkland.
>> Right.
» Right.
>> So that breaks it into two three lots.
» So that breaks it into two three lots.
What this is doing today is breaking it
down into further
air quotes lots for twin home
development. So it's it's it's now going
to the next level, but only for that
middle lot.
» Okay, thank you.
Does this go to council?
>> Yes.
» Yes.
>> Okay.
» Okay.
>> Just like just like a regular plat, like
» Just like just like a regular plat, like
Cardinal Heights, that goes to council.
>> Um I move to approve the
» Um I move to approve the
um I move to
recommend approving of the condo plat um
to council
with the following conditions, items in
the review letter be addressed, and a
sewer tap application for all dwellings
on the parcel be submitted to Columbus
Utilities, and all fees paid in full.
>> I second.
» I second.
>> I have a motion and a second.
» I have a motion and a second.
Any further discussion?
I have another question, Mike.
>> Mike um
» Mike um
Oh.
Online.
>> Josh, yes.
» Josh, yes.
>> Yeah, Mike Mike I I I just want to state
» Yeah, Mike Mike I I I just want to state
something, you know, in regards to the
sewer stuff, you know, it it would be
nice if the uh the the company, Columbus
Water and Light, would know exactly what
they're doing. You know, they we were
completely blindsided by a bill 13
months later from when we started that
project. And uh you know, it's that's
not how you do business. I mean I mean I
love Columbus. I grew up there.
>> Josh,
» Josh,
Josh, we're talking about the twin homes
here.
>> Yeah, I know that. I know that, but I'm
» Yeah, I know that. I know that, but I'm
just explaining. Like like like
hopefully they have their stuff figured
out because I'm very patient. A lot of
these developers are not patient.
>> You're talking about a previous
» You're talking about a previous
property, which is not on the agenda, so
can't be discussed right now. We are
purely talking about what's on the
agenda.
>> Yeah. Yeah, Josh, I'd appreciate if you
» Yeah. Yeah, Josh, I'd appreciate if you
brought that up with with staff cuz
what we're doing is we're simply
recommending to council to follow a
staff
comment.
>> Yeah, that's fine.
And I did send you guys all the
condominium documents. I have not signed
those cuz my attorney has not told me to
sign them yet, but I do have them. Mike
has them. So, if you guys would like to
see those, I'm fine with him sharing
those with you.
» All right. Staff can contact you.
So.
I did have one last question, Mike.
And that is um
the
is the fact that there are multiple
buildings on this parcel part of
basically what we're approving as
as a condo plat. So, this serves the
function of what would otherwise be a
conditional use.
» It is a condo plat, not a conditional
use.
>> I understand.
» I understand.
>> Yeah. Yeah. I Those are two very
» Yeah. Yeah. I Those are two very
different things.
Um I would This is really it it it's
it's similar to a site plan, but not
exact. Um it's similar to a site plan.
>> Okay.
» Okay.
>> plan
» plan
>> The fact that we're approving this is
» The fact that we're approving this is
in and of itself approval of having
multiple buildings on a parcel that
would otherwise not be allowed to have
multiple buildings.
» You can do multiple buildings in
different ways. This is one way to do
it.
>> Okay. There. It's That's
» Okay. There. It's That's
>> I think we would have figured it out if
» I think we would have figured it out if
if there was something.
>> Yeah. Yeah. I'm curious.
» Yeah. Yeah. I'm curious.
>> It's kind of sterile.
» It's kind of sterile.
>> So.
» So.
>> Yeah. It it it's it's it's just one way
» Yeah. It it it's it's it's just one way
to doing it. I think if if if uh
if the layout worked better and they
wanted uh he wanted to have and we do
have this in Columbus twin homes on
their own individual lot.
>> Right.
» Right.
>> Um we have that in Columbus. Um so, that
» Um we have that in Columbus. Um so, that
would be another way to do that. So,
there's more This is just
one way of doing it and it's not
any
it's not a bad way.
>> No, it's not. I'm not saying it's good
» No, it's not. I'm not saying it's good
or bad.
>> It's just one
» It's just one
>> You answered my question three sentences
» You answered my question three sentences
ago, so we're good. All right.
All right, we have a motion a second.
Any other discussion? Everybody's hoping
that
>> I say one more thing? Can I Mike, this
» I say one more thing? Can I Mike, this
is how you guys wanted this done. That
That's why the the engineers and set it
up this way. You know, I I would have
rather had
>> Josh, I'm not questioning or opposing
» Josh, I'm not questioning or opposing
this. I mean I'm just asking questions
>> I'm just talking about
» I'm just talking about
>> Yeah, that's what we recommended for
» Yeah, that's what we recommended for
approval. I think you're good, Josh. So
we can move
>> to explain. I wanted them zero lot line
» to explain. I wanted them zero lot line
duplexes and you guys didn't want them
that way. So this this was the way that
that I was told that we should do this
and so that's how we set it up.
>> Yeah, I'm just I'm asking questions
» Yeah, I'm just I'm asking questions
about a proposal in front of me and I'm
not opposing.
>> I'm not sure you guys got stuck with me.
» I'm not sure you guys got stuck with me.
My My engineer was supposed to be there.
He had a family emergency, so he had to
drive to the Twin Cities. I don't
typically always deal with this stuff.
I'm more on the construction side of it
once it's approved. So
>> No problem. We'd like to move on with
» No problem. We'd like to move on with
our vote.
>> Perfect.
» Perfect.
>> All those in favor signify by I.
» All those in favor signify by I.
>> I.
» I.
>> Opposed?
» Opposed?
Okay.
Pass it on to council, please.
All right, moving on to
Where is my agenda?
Moving on to number five.
Consider and take action regarding a
land division in the town of Elba in
Dodge County
under City of Columbus extraterritorial
jurisdiction for the Phyllis Hammond
estate. Dodge County activity number
as printed.
>> [snorts]
» [snorts]
>> All right.
» All right.
So this is outside the city of Columbus
in our extraterritorial area.
So state law state law
requires the city
to take action on lot splits within that
1 and 1/2 mile area of the city. Um
this is a property
east of city limits.
Um
there isn't a super good map, but it's
uh kind of
south of Rotary Park, south and east of
Rotary Park.
Um and the railroad tracks, there's a um
properties in there. Um
and so uh
if you approve this, it it moves on. If
you deny it, the split, my understanding
is the split is denied. But if you
approve it tonight and the
town doesn't approve it, then it can
also stop. So it doesn't get your
approval does not guarantee approval
throughout the process. So um
uh these are large. There's a uh um
this is large parcels. We don't have any
policies
uh in our comprehensive plan or in our
ordinances that would that kind of
contradict uh
uh large splits and those kinds of
things. So um I don't see any problems
with the split.
» East of the city?
>> Uh think Rotary Park.
» Uh think Rotary Park.
Stay on that side of the river and kind
of go down along the river to the
railroad tracks.
>> And
» And
the north?
>> South of Rotary Park.
» South of Rotary Park.
>> South of the
» Outside the city limits.
» [snorts]
» Any questions? Any discussion?
I agree with you, Mike. This looks like
it's
getting carved off to include buildings
on the property and
it's almost a it's still a it's still a
33-acre piece.
>> Rotary Park?
» Rotary Park?
City property?
>> Yes.
» Yes.
>> And you're saying to the south?
» And you're saying to the south?
South and east. Southeast.
Cuz the
river kind of curves around, so it's
>> But really really to get there, Mike,
» But really really to get there, Mike,
you'd go across the bridge on 60, go a
couple streets up and hang a left before
you got to
the grainery.
That's how you That's how you'd actually
get there by car.
» The grainery. Like a block past the dam.
Is that
where this is?
>> Yeah, it'd be Yeah, it'd be on the
» Yeah, it'd be Yeah, it'd be on the
opposite side of the dam.
>> Okay.
» Okay.
>> Yeah.
» Yeah.
>> That's here.
» That's here.
>> Okay.
» [snorts]
» Any other questions, Mike?
>> No.
» No.
>> Okay.
» Okay.
>> Okay.
» Okay.
>> Um
» Um
I'll entertain a motion.
>> I'd make a motion to approve the
» I'd make a motion to approve the
request.
» I second.
>> I have a motion and a second.
All those in favor signify by I.
>> I.
» I.
>> I.
» I.
>> Opposed?
Great.
And that's really a motion of
non-objection to the
county, to Dodge County, right?
>> It's an
» It's an
It's an approval.
>> Okay.
» Okay.
>> It's It's an approval.
We have the same thing on the item
number six, that it's a different
property.
>> Okay, so we'll move on to that item on
» Okay, so we'll move on to that item on
the agenda.
Can you describe to us where this one
is, Mike?
» It is
>> out there.
» Yeah. Um
Nina Buck Road.
>> Yeah.
» So, it's out of ways.
So, you got parcel A, parcel B.
Again, fairly large splits of land.
Again, uh there's
we don't have anything in our code or
this stuff
wouldn't seem to impede any kind of
growth of the city or anything like
that, so
So, these are outside the city limit and
we're just They just provided us a
letter of intent notification.
The city really doesn't have any say,
but they don't
>> City has say, yes.
» City has say, yes.
>> We have say.
» We have say.
>> Yep.
» Yep.
>> Anything within what, a mile and a half?
» Anything within what, a mile and a half?
>> Mile and a half is It's called the
» Mile and a half is It's called the
extraterritorial zone.
>> Right.
» Right.
>> And we have the ability to approve or
» And we have the ability to approve or
deny this. If we approve it,
um
it still may not be approved pending the
town's approval.
So, this is There's multiple approvals
needed for the split.
Um and the city deals with it prior to
the town.
» So, they would be held accountable to
wetlands and all the normal
state
>> Yeah,
» Yeah,
you know, town subdivision as well.
>> Yeah.
» Yeah.
Yeah, this isn't even in our comp plan
area.
We didn't do our current comp plan does
not do any kind of
doesn't have any policies addressing
growth areas outside the city.
>> So, that's part of the reason it's kind
» So, that's part of the reason it's kind
of like what what would we hang our hat
on for denial?
We don't really have anything.
» Any further questions or discussion?
Okay.
I'll entertain a motion.
>> I'll move to approve subdivision
» I'll move to approve subdivision
activity number 2026-0356
for David and Marie O'Crawley.
>> I will second.
» I will second.
>> I have a motion and a second. Any
» I have a motion and a second. Any
further discussion?
Hearing none, all those in favor signify
by I.
>> I.
» I.
>> I.
» I.
>> Opposed?
» Opposed?
Great.
>> Please forward our approval to the
» Please forward our approval to the
county.
» All right. Last item of business is this
uh
consider and take action regarding the
housing survey in support of updating
the city's comprehensive plan.
» So, we put together the survey. We tried
to keep it as succinct as possible.
There's a couple things in there we're
kind of like, well, how do we do this?
It blends in a little bit in the land
use a little bit, but we tried to keep
it succinct. Um we do now have a
subscription to SurveyMonkey,
which allows us to
do survey and analysis and all that kind
of stuff uh
uh in a
in a efficient way. Um but we have uh a
number of questions here.
Try to break it out it identify who's
taking the survey, address housing
affordability,
housing types,
also city engagement in affordable
housing,
timing and growth rate cuz that's a big
part of
of kind of it's a little bit more land
use but
they do
they blend so much together it's kind of
hard to stay out of that
but it does give us a
some questions on
kind of how to approach things.
Talks about infill and outward expansion
a little bit
and then
the big debate always in surveys is do
you have an open-ended question? The
negative on that is
the comments are usually all over the
map and there's no way to summarize
those comments
unlike the 12 questions.
The the positive of having it it gives
someone the opportunity to address, have
a say, an open-ended say about something
that maybe wasn't addressed in the
survey.
But what yet you know what how do we
communicate that when we complete the
survey?
Staff could try to summarize it the best
we could we can include a list of every
single comment
but it's not going to be
easily necessarily depending on how many
people respond doesn't mean it's going
to be very digestible
but that's in the draft.
We will have hard copies available here
at City Hall. It'll be online. We'll
promote it through social media channels
and uh uh
we'll have the results for the September
Plan Commission meeting.
>> Um
» Um
have you So, you said you were going to
have it online and are we going to send
this out via mail at all or no? It's
just going to be you're going to
advertise it, people are going to have
to go and
>> do it
» do it
fairly similarly to the Park and Rec
outdoor recreation
>> which we had I think 350
» which we had I think 350
responses.
>> Well, that's good.
» Well, that's good.
>> Which is I think I did the calculations
» Which is I think I did the calculations
on that. For Columbus, that's uh
statistically appropriate sample.
350 responses.
Somewhere Whatever the number was, it
was in that ballpark.
Most of the responses came in the first
10 days.
Probably 90%
>> Probably have kids, too, right?
» Probably have kids, too, right?
>> 90% of the responses came back in the
» 90% of the responses came back in the
first 10 days.
>> And they people families with kids, I
» And they people families with kids, I
assume, is the majority.
>> I can't remember the results.
» I can't remember the results.
>> Okay.
» Okay.
>> I'd have to refer to that.
» I'd have to refer to that.
>> I know cuz I thought about it and then I
» I know cuz I thought about it and then I
forgot about it. But I don't have I
don't have kids in the system anymore
anyways, but
>> Parks are for all ages.
» Parks are for all ages.
>> No, I know. I I get it. I utilize it. I
» No, I know. I I get it. I utilize it. I
go to the parks and stuff. I wish I
would have remembered.
>> So, what?
» So, what?
>> All right.
» All right.
>> I'm
» I'm
>> Yep, good.
» Yep, good.
>> Just a comment on the wording of of one
» Just a comment on the wording of of one
of the questions. In section two,
question four, approximately what
percentage of your gross monthly
household income is spent on housing
costs and rent or mortgage plus
utilities.
Um I wonder if you might want to include
property taxes in those parentheses,
too. Property taxes are more or less
built into rent uh and in my experience,
cost far more than utilities.
>> Well, if I was answering it, I would
» Well, if I was answering it, I would
include that.
So, I don't know not.
>> that question again?
» that question again?
>> It's the very
» It's the very
>> two, number four.
» two, number four.
>> Yeah, it's the very first question in
» Yeah, it's the very first question in
section two.
Right? Cuz taxes are part of part of
housing.
>> It's it's a hard one. Uh
» It's it's a hard one. Uh
there are
different thoughts on the definition of
how you determine affordable housing.
Some include utilities, some do not. I
have found
contradicting statements on how that is
done.
>> I don't think we're questioning the
» I don't think we're questioning the
utilities. We're talking about property
tax.
So
Yeah, I would too.
>> with you, Steve, cuz
» with you, Steve, cuz
rent is usually got property tax built
in. But mortgage doesn't. So
>> so it's a right.
» so it's a right.
>> It's a equivalent.
» Right. And if people um if their house
is paid off and they still have property
taxes and or utilities, they still have
housing costs.
» Other questions or comments?
» I had a question about section three,
number seven.
There's a
definition there under the bullet point
missing middle housing.
Is that a
>> Hey hey let me
» Hey hey let me
>> Oh, sure.
» Oh, sure.
>> Catching up.
» Catching up.
What is it again? What question?
>> Uh number seven.
» Uh number seven.
>> Okay.
» Okay.
>> You have single family detached homes
» You have single family detached homes
and then something called missing middle
housing. Is that
editorializing that it's missing or is
that actually part of the description of
what those are?
» I think it's up for debate if it's
editorializing or a description.
» Okay.
>> I I think that's the
» I I think that's the
>> But a normal person I would I have no
» But a normal person I would I have no
clue what that means. What is a missing
missing middle housing?
>> Yeah, it is more of a a profession
» Yeah, it is more of a a profession
thing. It The middle is is addressing is
meaning is that a lot of housing that's
being built is either subsidized
through grants based on income at the
low end or the people who have a lot of
money
um where the developers make more money
on their projects.
And then the miss the middle type stuff
like duplexes, twin homes, triplexes,
fourplexes, those types of things
kind of generally a lot of times don't
get built because there's incentives at
the opposite ends to build them.
>> Can we remove the word missing?
» Can we remove the word missing?
>> That's what I'm
» That's what I'm
I
>> We can.
» We can.
>> I don't want somebody to be It really
» I don't want somebody to be It really
confuses me.
>> misled when they're trying to answer a
» misled when they're trying to answer a
question. What should we have? Oh, well,
this is missing so we should have it,
you know.
>> Plus we have duplexes and twin homes
» Plus we have duplexes and twin homes
currently on the
>> Mike following everybody around to
» Mike following everybody around to
explain it and
>> [laughter]
» [laughter]
>> We have those of some of those available
» We have those of some of those available
in this community.
Um
But you do are saying townhomes and row
houses
are actually
>> of
» of
of this
is of this question is what housing
types and land use mix do you want to
see? That's the purpose of these
questions.
>> So your comment on the missing middle is
» So your comment on the missing middle is
appropriate.
» Others?
If not, I'll entertain a motion.
>> Move to approve the housing survey.
» Second.
I have a motion and a second. Any other
discussion?
>> Is that with removing
» Is that with removing
the missing?
>> Yeah, I can amend my motion to approve
» Yeah, I can amend my motion to approve
the housing survey with removing the
word missing from missing middle
housing.
>> Do you want to consider Steve's comment
» Do you want to consider Steve's comment
about the
tax part of the mortgage also?
>> And include taxes in the mortgage
» And include taxes in the mortgage
clarification.
» We have a motion.
Do we have a second? Okay.
Motion and second. All those in favor
signify by I.
>> I. I.
» I. I.
>> Opposed?
Great.
Passes.
Last one, any future agenda items?
» Um next meeting we'll have survey
results
draft a draft of the housing chapter.
And draft
uh housing goals
objectives and policies. So, what what
I'm we're going to try to do is
have um
a draft set of goals and objectives for
you to review.
Um and then also um
um so
that's going to be held it's going to be
well we'll have a lot to talk about.
We'll have a zoning rewrite as well.
We're we're going to try to staff is
going to try to write the best goals,
objectives, and policies we can to get
you as close as you can.
Um
um so
you know, reviewing those in advance of
the meeting will be helpful to kind of
move them get the get you there quicker
during the meeting.
Um if you take a look at
I included kind of a process
in the on the previous agenda item.
We will need comments. Uh we will need
to get some fairly good responses from
you on what we submit to you
so that we can have a public hearing
on October 8th
and take it to the council on
the 20th
because we can't we can't take have the
public hearing
at the November plan commission cuz it's
too too late.
And I doubt you want to have a second
October plan commission meeting.
» [snorts]
>> Not unless there's chips.
» Not unless there's chips.
And guacamole.
» [laughter]
>> Homemade.
» Homemade.
>> All right.
» All right.
>> So and then that will have Sonia
» So and then that will have Sonia
rewrite. One of the things I did just
receive a draft chapter of all the
performance standards.
I will email that out to you in the next
day or so
so you have a head start on reviewing it
cuz I know that's what you want to do in
your free time.
Um
but it is
a chunk of stuff. So
but at the next meeting Sonia will have
her summary PowerPoint as well that she
she does such a great job at and um
so we'll be on pace for adopting
adopting this in December.
>> Sweet.
» Sweet.
>> When is the public hearing for that?
» Likely
November, I believe.
I don't think we want to go any later
than that.
That'll get us set up for approval in
December. [snorts]
» Any other future
crystal ball type things?
» At some point here we'll probably bring
through the plan commission
a revision of
I think it's chapter 86, public
rights-of-way and stuff like that.
Um
that section, it's not in the zoning
code, it's in their municipal code,
but we would probably bring that through
here
um for review and recommendation to
council.
It addresses stuff like
if you think especially like stuff in
downtown,
can you have benches in the right-of-way
and on the sidewalk and how do we do
that?
Um there's some really outdated code and
language in there.
So, I have a an initial draft on that
and I'm going to revise it one more time
and then get it to
uh
the public works and utilities
department.
Um so, we'll probably bringing that
through at some point, probably not the
September meeting cuz that's busy
enough.
That will not require public hearing
because it's not part of the zoning
code, but it functions
in many ways like it.
>> Okay.
All right.
>> I'll entertain a motion to adjourn.
» I'll entertain a motion to adjourn.
>> Move to adjourn.
» Nobody wants to
>> Second.
» Second.
>> Second.
» Second.
>> I'll do it. I never do [laughter] that.
» I'll do it. I never do [laughter] that.
>> Great. Have a motion and a second.
» Great. Have a motion and a second.
All those in favor signify by eye.
>> Eye.
» Eye.
>> Eye.
» Eye.
>> Opposed?
» Opposed?
We're adjourned.