[0:00] and in the next day or two, you'll see
it on the YouTube channel.
[0:05] All right. Um,
recognition of the public,
[0:11] we have Jennifer Campbell. First on the
list.
[0:26] Yep. Jennifer Campbell, 1480 Counto
Creek Road, Manchester. Um, short and
[0:32] brief. Me and my husband, we were
looking. Not sure if this has been
[0:37] updated or if you guys even called these
guys and let them know, but this paper
[0:42] is still and it's on the website and
it's all over on, you know, online or is
[0:47] still stating that Rex Roth's property,
the properties down along Mil Creek. Uh
[0:54] there's uh another one on here that is
uh still on proposal for AI buildings.
[1:02] » Okay. Can we see that? I'm not aware
that that's on there. Sure.
[1:06] » And I don't think if if it's not
anything that came from the township,
[1:10] I'm not sure we can do anything.
>> It has the township's uh name and
[1:15] everything else on it. That's the the
the data center where you can go online
[1:20] with the county and see where they all
are.
[1:23] » Okay.
>> Yeah, we keep an eye on that all the
[1:25] time.
>> Okay.
[1:27] » Is that the county?
>> If you could Well, the count wouldn't
[1:31] the county not be updated until we send
them something? Well, that's what I was
[1:35] wondering if you guys had
>> remember we are still in we're still
[1:39] discussing every month, right? We're
sitting down. We're refining the map and
[1:44] we're refining the ordinance together.
Once we're done that, then it goes to
[1:48] the county because they look at it and
and then they'll probably update that on
[1:52] their side. So, you're probably going to
still see old stuff with the county
[1:56] because we're still working through our
ordinance together.
[1:59] » Okay.
>> Does that make sense?
[2:00] » It makes sense. That's why I figured,
you know, I would, you know, ask
[2:05] » you go from there. It does state on
there that it was updated
[2:09] » as of April, but it has not been updated
since.
[2:13] » Yeah.
>> So,
[2:14] » yeah,
>> we started meeting in July uh to to
[2:18] publicly discuss changes. So,
>> right.
[2:21] » I I don't believe this is even your
county. I know there are several
[2:25] websites that are tracking
proposed
[2:30] data centers, planned, approved data
centers, etc. Um, some of that
[2:34] information is provided by
interested people. Some are are factual.
[2:40] So, if I could get the the actual source
of this, we can look into it more, but I
[2:44] can tell you honestly to this to date,
we've had no formal applications for
[2:49] » No, it's not an application. That's just
saying that it's actually a a a piece of
[2:53] property that is proposed
and allowed to be an AI building.
[2:59] » Yeah. All that is
>> proposed. That could be an applicant
[3:03] allowed. The township decides where land
uses are allowed through our zoning. We
[3:09] have not allowed data centers anywhere.
We're developing an ordinance to say
[3:12] they can be in this one geographic area,
but that's for an unofficial government
[3:18] website to say this. is allowed there.
It doesn't really mean much. It's
[3:22] » right. Well, again, like I said, I I've
just figured that most likely the word
[3:26] needs to come from you all. Let them
know correct that that piece of property
[3:32] is all contained.
>> Yep.
[3:33] » Okay.
>> That's what I'm saying. If I can if I
[3:35] know where it is, I can I can contact
them and let them know that that that is
[3:39] currently not an active.
>> But for the for the integrity of what
[3:42] we're doing, we we have not we have not
released anything outside of of the
[3:46] township.
>> Yeah. All right. So, yeah, because the
[3:49] rest of the neighbors all through there,
they're like, "Well, I thought you kind
[3:53] of said that that was off the table when
I showed them the new map from when we
[3:57] were at the church."
>> Yeah.
[3:59] » So, there's people are kind of like
getting on a little up for again because
[4:04] they [snorts] think that something's
being shoved.
[4:06] » Okay.
>> So, clarification.
[4:09] » Okay. Thank you, Mrs. Campbell.
>> And Mark, you're going to see if we can
[4:15] trace that down somewhere.
>> Yeah, if you can. If you can give me the
[4:18] where what the source is of this, I'll
look it up.
[4:21] » Yeah, I will.
>> Thanks.
[4:22] » Actually, while we're while we're uh
Mark, you kind of went through the
[4:27] process of what what happens when we
kind of finally say, "Okay, this is this
[4:32] is what we're moving ahead with." Let's
walk through real quickly what happens
[4:37] process-wise so everybody's on the same
page because I think some people here
[4:41] were not at the the meeting at the the
church. So, just that way it's on the
[4:46] record. So after we say this is our last
meeting, we feel this is what we're
[4:50] moving ahead with. What's the next step?
>> So good plan.
[4:53] » Pre pre that statement um we have
adopted a moratorum which gives us 180
[4:58] days to get an ordinance in place and
that's important. So nothing can come in
[5:02] right now even if they want to. Um we
have said no we're in the process of
[5:07] developing an ordinance. We have 180
days which takes us to don't quote me
[5:11] the date is July or January
>> 1st 3rd 4th something like that. Um, so
[5:16] in that time frame, we are in the
process and we have a draft. We've had
[5:19] this two public meetings down at the
church. Uh, the next public meeting will
[5:23] take place at the planning commission
meeting where we'll go through it again.
[5:26] The planning commission will will look
at this ordinance. Um, after we get it
[5:32] to a point where we are comfortable with
it, it'll be advertised as a as an
[5:37] ordinance, then brought forward to a
supervisor's meeting for formal action.
[5:42] Um, we hope to do that in November at
the latest would be at the December
[5:47] meeting and then it takes a place soon
after. Like Steve, is there a time frame
[5:51] on those when they take place as
immediate or is is there like a 7-day
[5:55] delay on on that type of ordinance? I
forget.
[5:59] » I think we can do it immediately. So, it
would be effect the next day. So at that
[6:02] point then we will be adopting both an
ordinance which provides guidance and
[6:08] regulations on how if a data center
application is submitted here how it
[6:12] comes in. What we're proposing is to do
it through a conditional use process,
[6:16] which would mean then that any applicant
who wants to propose a data center as a
[6:21] principal use here in the township would
have to come before the board of
[6:25] supervisors in a formal hearing. And
it's a conditional use hearing. And
[6:29] under [snorts] Pennsylvania law, a
conditional use is it's it's a use
[6:32] that's allowed under specific criteria.
And the supervisors then have the
[6:37] ability to attach reasonable conditions
to that decision. So that's what that
[6:41] process means. Um in addition to
adopting the ordinance, um we have also
[6:47] proposed a map because this is being
done as an overlay and we've talked
[6:50] about this at the meetings where an
overlay district says within this
[6:54] district there may be some underlying
zoning um industrial, it could be
[7:00] commercial, etc.
Within that district on top of the
[7:06] underlying zoning, a data center would
be allowed by conditional use. So that's
[7:09] the process we're going through now. And
going forward, should someone want to
[7:13] apply, that's the process they'd have to
go through to get one approved here. So
[7:19] it it takes months. If if we do get a
formal application, it would take months
[7:23] for it to get to a point where it comes
to before the board of supervisors for
[7:27] formal action and decision.
>> Even if I say even if they wanted to,
[7:33] » even if they wanted to. And the orders
draft that we have right now is is
[7:37] fairly strict. I mean, there's a lot of
conditions and regulations on it that
[7:40] we're working through now, but that's
that's where it stands.
[7:43] » Okay. Thank you, Jennifer. Uh Jamie
Lagana.
[7:52] » Jamie Lana, 535 East Butter Road. Um so,
there's been quite a few questions
[7:58] recently about the cost of township
supervisors
[8:02] um salaries and what exactly they're
cost in the township and things like
[8:06] that. So, I have those numbers for us
tonight. [clears throat]
[8:09] Um, Mr. McDonald received a raise this
year because he was just uh reelected,
[8:14] [cough] which is great. His salary went
from $2500 that the other two get to
[8:19] 4190.
Um, they the two gentlemen both get a
[8:23] $4,500 HSA allowance. Uh, Loretta does
not because she's on Medicare. They all
[8:29] three get a $3,000
uh insurance cost for uh vision.
[8:35] They all get a $600.
>> I am I am dental.
[8:38] » Let me keep talking, please.
>> She is correct. It is visiting dental. U
[8:43] They all get a $600 cell phone allowance
yearly. Uh like I said, Loretta and
[8:47] Brian both get $2,500 for their position
and John does get $41.90.
[8:53] Um Pat stews, they get $700 a piece.
They get a convention aotment of 195 and
[9:02] they get $200 a year for their uniforms.
I don't know how a college shirt that
[9:07] you wear once a month is a uniform, but
in the end, Loretta cost us one uh
[9:14] $18,886
[9:17] a year, while Brian cost us $45,7512
[9:26] a year. And Mr. McDonald cost us
47,4412.
[9:32] This has all been done by right to know.
So those numbers are 100% accurate. Um I
[9:37] want to let it be known that I do intend
to run in 2028. As I've spoken before,
[9:41] one of the first things I will be asking
to do is getting rid of all of that
[9:45] other than to pay the 25 or what will be
$4,190.
[9:50] They don't there's no reason that we're
paying these. Um, two of the three are
[9:55] self-employed and make millions. Well,
one makes millions, so I don't know what
[9:58] the other one makes. There's absolutely
no reason, in my opinion, we're sitting
[10:02] on the seat at this point just for
insurance. We're ensuring them, the
[10:06] three of them, their spouses, their
children, some of which are out of the
[10:10] house, working on their own, but they
are under 26, so by law they can be
[10:14] covered. In my opinion, I don't think we
should be covering anybody that doesn't
[10:18] sit specifically on the seat, and even
so, they shouldn't even be covered. Um,
[10:25] I don't know if that my my goal here
isn't to create an issue. It's to to
[10:29] quiet questions because there's been a
lot of questions. I see them on Facebook
[10:32] and I keep getting asked getting asked.
So, finally we got the information. Um,
[10:37] $50,000 a person essentially is what it
costs. Loretta's is less expensive
[10:43] because she's on Medicare. So, that's
great because of age, whatever.
[10:47] Can't fault her for that. Um, should I
be elected, I will be declining
[10:51] everything up there to include the pay.
The pay will go to Nor Eastern school
[10:55] district to be in football program. And
I know of at least two other people that
[10:59] plan to run as well that we're going to
do the same. Furthermore, we have it
[11:03] approved with the county. We did get
enough signatures. It will be on the
[11:06] ballot next time around in November. You
will be asked yes or no. Do you want the
[11:11] the seat to go from three to five? Keep
in mind there is a cost with that of
[11:15] course, but again at least three of the
people that I know that are running,
[11:19] myself included, will be working to get
rid of that.
[11:23] Have a good evening. [applause]
[11:31] » You're done. I can talk.
>> I stopped you because you you uh
[11:35] violated my first amendment right by
interrupting me during my three-minute
[11:38] time period. You're not legally allowed
to interrupt. I'm tired of seeing it.
[11:42] Well, you can give me the dirty look all
you want. There is an amendment right
[11:45] there.
>> All right, we'll continue. Um I actually
[11:48] did this uh the right to know for Mrs.
Farry and uh I did all these figures. So
[11:54] that's exactly where he's getting them.
And I think uh when they were before I
[12:00] go to that u Mark I wanted to ask you
when we videotape
[12:06] can we pull back the camera a little bit
because I notice that all we see is the
[12:11] board here.
>> Yeah.
[12:13] » I don't know if that's possible.
>> I I I will look and see if I can do it
[12:18] but definitely I'm ready for the next
meeting. We'll back it up.
[12:20] » Okay. All right. So I have the figures
here. So if anybody wants them, they
[12:26] could come up and get them then. But
it's exactly uh what Mr. Lagona was
[12:30] saying. Um
by right
[12:36] and and I'll actually read it from the
uh PAT's uh laws here. Supervisors,
[12:44] whether or not they are employed by the
township and their dependent, are
[12:47] eligible for inclusion in group life,
health, hospitalization, medical
[12:52] service, and accident insurance paid in
whole or in part by the township.
[12:57] Supervisors and their dependents who are
um over 65 years of age are eligible for
[13:04] inclusion in the supplemental Medicare
uh insurance coverage paid in whole or
[13:10] part by the township. So, it's always
been done forever. Um, supervisors,
[13:17] believe me, $18,000.
I'm not here for the money.
[13:22] » Eligible doesn't mean
>> Oh, you're excuse you're interrupting
[13:25] me. It's my first amendment, right?
>> You're you're a township. Uh,
[13:29] » okay. So, anyways, um, when you have the
floor, I'll let you speak.
[13:36] So, um, it's up to people if they want
you get what you pay for. So, just be
[13:44] aware. And did you want to go to the
podium?
[13:48] » I only have one more question. For how
many hours?
[13:53] » Well, it's not really hours. Um, now I'm
in administration, so I'm here three to
[14:00] four times a week and sometimes I'm here
for hours. Um, the other two, if they
[14:09] have questions, if they're going through
something, they come in and maybe how
[14:13] many times? once or twice a week.
>> Twice a month. But that doesn't count
[14:17] the times that we are on the phone or
discussing issues or I'm on the phone
[14:23] with Mark discussing what you know there
might be a a crisis or a followup or
[14:29] maybe we're also out you know in the
township walking you know walking
[14:33] streets or whatever. So there's never
really an hour limit on it. So, um, you
[14:40] know, one month I may, you know, I may
be involved in 10 hours worth of work
[14:44] and another month I may be in two hours.
I don't know. It depends. But whatever
[14:48] the township needs is there's not
really, you know,
[14:52] » and you're always available for phone
calls. And Brian, you also you bought
[14:56] the roads and, you know, do a lot
>> roads. We were just out down here. Uh,
[15:01] » is it what is it? Kentwell.
>> Kentwell. We were down there meeting
[15:04] with two contractors. Uh, and that's
that's an ongoing thing. I mean, it's
[15:08] it's and it's through the day, you know,
when everybody else is available. Uh,
[15:13] and there is phone calls in the middle
of the night. Sometimes police will call
[15:17] me. Uh, I'm I'm I'm down the list a
little bit, but if no one else answers,
[15:22] they call me then if they have an issue,
need road closed or something. And
[15:25] » you got a call the other night.
>> Uh,
[15:28] » yeah, I got a call the other night and
we're on call 247.
[15:33] So, the other night I got a call from
the uh security system. Uh, our front
[15:40] door was breached, so I had to come down
and check out what was going on. Um,
[15:46] different times I come down. Last
weekend, somebody forgot to pick up the
[15:50] key for the rental. So, I came in on a
Sunday and went down, got the key for
[15:55] him. So, it's like we're always on call.
>> Yeah. And it for those of you that have
[16:01] emailed me directly, I also try to
respond pretty pretty timely as well.
[16:05] So, I mean, it's not, you know, just
because we're here once a month doesn't
[16:10] mean that that's all we're working. So,
>> yeah, it's not all we're doing. It's
[16:14] there's there's a lot of times
throughout the week that I got to go
[16:18] meet somebody to discuss a road issue or
traffic issue sometimes even that we get
[16:23] involved with. Uh but yeah,
>> and then we each have a leazison
[16:28] position. So we me with Northern
Regional. I go to their meetings. I go
[16:33] to all their uh different functions they
have. J um Jeremy, are you playing with
[16:38] the lights back there?
>> I am not. [laughter]
[16:42] » Do we still have a road master that
would meet with the construction and
[16:47] engineers throughout the day and and
Mark himself?
[16:50] » Okay. Right now we don't have a a title
of road master. We have a um lead person
[16:58] for the road crew.
>> Are they out meeting with the uh
[17:02] » Yeah, I suppose.
>> Yeah, they are as well.
[17:04] » Yeah. And so yeah, too.
>> Yeah.
[17:07] » Yeah.
>> Yeah. Yeah. But
[17:09] » you still want to be redundant and
double up on it.
[17:12] » Well, you want more than one person's
input on, you know, project. uh
[17:17] » and since it's a supervisors that make
the ultimate decision that a supervisor
[17:22] should be there at any of the meetings a
supervisor should be there.
[17:26] » How do we how does the township decide
on health insurance and the benefits? Is
[17:32] it something you vote on or is it just
something that's
[17:36] » during budget and budget's coming up? So
that's coming up in October. So
[17:40] everybody's welcome to come to our
budget meetings and we do have a
[17:44] insurance broker that we go through and
they give us oh probably like six or
[17:50] eight different u plans and we pick out
one that uh is you know the best plan
[17:59] for everybody. to kind of vote on the
budget for healthare.
[18:02] » Yeah. Yeah.
>> And who's our insurance? Is it Long or
[18:09] Long
>> Longly Insurance? I don't know if you
[18:11] know.
So,
[18:16] Mr. Garzana, did you have anything
further?
[18:21] Okay. Thank you. All right. Um, anybody
else?
[18:27] Okay, we'll move on.
Adoption
[18:32] of the agenda as prepared.
>> I'll make a motion to approve the agenda
[18:35] as prepared.
>> I'll second.
[18:37] » All in favor say I.
>> I.
[18:39] » I. Now, that's the amended one. And the
only reason we amend the agenda is
[18:44] because somebody will come in late and
we had a couple people this time twice,
[18:50] wasn't it, Mark?
>> Yeah. Um, under under Pennsylvania uh
[18:55] the sunshine law, the agenda, the final
agenda has to be posted 24 hours prior
[18:59] to the meeting. Once we post it, if
there's any changes to the agenda, then
[19:04] we post the the amendment to that agenda
so that it's clear what was originally
[19:09] posted and what changed. And we try to
highlight the changes so you can see
[19:11] what was added or deleted.
>> Yeah. And I think somebody asked us to
[19:15] add the time when it was changed. Did
you do that?
[19:18] » That was me asking for it to be
highlighted. Yeah.
[19:21] » And stuff so that we knew.
>> See, we hear you. [laughter]
[19:25] Okay.
approval of the previous minutes. That's
[19:30] the August 2026 minutes.
>> And then there's also the July workshop
[19:36] meeting.
>> Okay. That was my paper.
[19:39] » Yeah.
>> Okay. Uh July workshop
[19:42] » minutes. So both of them we'll do it as
a glyco.
[19:45] » Yeah. I'll I'll make a motion to approve
uh July workshop minutes and August 2026
[19:50] minutes.
>> You weren't
[19:52] » That was one church, correct? Is that
the one you're talking about? All right.
[19:55] Let's do them individually.
>> Okay.
[19:56] » Uh July workshop minutes.
>> Uh
[19:59] » you approve it?
>> Yes.
[20:01] » I'll second. All in favor say I.
>> I.
[20:04] » I. And Brian, you abstain.
>> Correct.
[20:07] » Yes. Correct.
>> Okay. August the 26th.
[20:10] » I'll make a motion to approve the August
26
[20:13] » 206.
>> And I'll second.
[20:15] » All in favor say I.
>> I.
[20:17] » I.
planning and zoning.
[20:24] » Who do we have?
>> Yes, sorry. Thank you. Um
[20:28] just so we I know we've already talked
about it, but we did hold the second
[20:31] meeting on the on the data center. I
just want to say again, I appreciate um
[20:36] the people who have come out and have
have participated and given input on
[20:40] these these meetings. Uh the meetings
were, you know, well attended. uh they
[20:45] were handled in a respectful manner and
I appreciate that. I realize that if you
[20:50] read the news, you turn on the TV,
anything. I mean, data centers across
[20:54] the US are are a hot topic and and I
feel like we're um as a community, we're
[20:59] trying to address it as a community and
I just thank everyone who's
[21:02] participating in this to make it a a
good process. I think it's going well.
[21:06] Um quick updates. There's no there was
no zoning hearing board in August and
[21:09] there is no one planned for September at
this time. planning commission met on
[21:13] the 24th. Um in that meeting, Freedom
Square was on the agenda. Um
[21:20] the only thing that we talked about
during the planning commission meeting
[21:23] were the modifications that are coming
up. It's going back to the planning
[21:27] commission again for still making a
recommendation. So that's that's still
[21:31] in process.
And Rebecca March, our new zoning
[21:35] officer, was able to attend a two-day
zoning academy class last week hosted by
[21:39] PAT. So, we've talked about, you know,
the importance of training here and I
[21:44] it's good that we're, you know,
Rebecca's been able to get out there and
[21:47] get some of the training and and all of
us are the public works staff go to
[21:52] training. We all do training all the
time and so that was just a a good class
[21:55] for her to attend. So, I think that's
it.
[21:58] » Okay.
>> Can I mention something to all of you?
[22:01] So, during that planning commission
meeting, I did uh bring something up to
[22:06] Mr. Bosch. Um, another citizen here in
the township did uh called u
[22:13] the York County tax and found out that
he was $82,000
[22:17] behind in taxes and that he's now being
taken off clean and green which
[22:21] eventually would happen. But you figure
that's probably another what 50 or more
[22:27] in money. He very he took him very
lightly. Very lightly. He's like at
[22:32] first he wouldn't admit it and then he
was like we'll just deal with it when
[22:35] they get to me.
[22:39] Yeah,
>> I hope that we never do anything again
[22:43] with that man. That's my opinion.
>> We had a couple developers that were
[22:48] very difficult to work with.
>> Well, he is no better.
[22:51] » Yeah,
>> he was more interested in showing his
[22:53] little lion up in the air than
discussing business. Okay.
[22:58] » He held him up like a lion.
>> He has he has a new little baby and he's
[23:04] » six months old. That's why he hasn't
been around to work, he said,
[23:07] » cuz he was too busy.
>> He was too busy with the baby.
[23:10] » Okay. All right. Thank you.
>> Real quick, um, uh, September, are we
[23:14] planning another another round?
>> So, we'll have that at the planning
[23:18] commission meeting. So, we'll bring up
that the data center will be on the
[23:21] agenda at planning commission, uh, for
that discussion.
[23:24] » Okay.
>> Okay. Uh, reports, we had the building
[23:28] report, the police report. Um, okay.
Okay. As far as the police report, our
[23:34] numbers really went down. Um for the
month of July, the um our calls were
[23:41] down 204 calls. Um also year to date,
they're down 588 calls, which is great.
[23:50] Uh during July, patrol and criminal
investigation department arrested 254
[23:56] criminal defendants. Um 66 more arrests
than in July of last year. Of the 254
[24:03] arrests, 29 were felonies, 160 were
misdemeanors, and 65 were summaries.
[24:12] We had um unfortunately there were five
overdose overdose deaths uh during the
[24:19] month of July. Um
we had um fortunately none were in
[24:26] Kowaka Township, so we're really good
about that. uh Kawaga Township, we had
[24:31] some charges of uh um simple assault,
aggravated assault, bad checks. Uh there
[24:37] are a lot of reports and Jamie, you can
agree to this of um bikes, ebikes and
[24:44] little motorcycles and things. people
put them on Facebook and what happens
[24:49] they put their address and everything
and uh these this group I think it's a
[24:56] group of people that go around and
breaking in the shed and then steal the
[24:59] bikes you know before they have a chance
to sell them. So there were quite a few.
[25:05] Anything else Jamie on that?
[25:10] » That's a common ebikes is what's now but
they did it they do it with bikes, four
[25:16] wheelers. I mean, it's common.
>> Yep. And they list their address, so
[25:20] that's what makes it bad.
[clears throat]
[25:26] All right. There's uh one of our um uh
civilian positions up at Northern
[25:32] Regional is uh retiring in January and
uh Lori Morard and they put applications
[25:39] out and they got 86 applications.
>> Wow. So there was a lot of interest and
[25:45] I think they actually narrowed down to
14 out of that and then they were doing
[25:50] uh thorough interviews and really uh
lowering that. Also
[25:56] um [clears throat] they met with
Jefferson uh the staff met with
[25:59] Jefferson Burough officials. They have
an interest in police services but they
[26:04] haven't heard anything back just yet.
Also um there's uh where's the other
[26:10] one?
What was the other community?
[26:15] » Handover or what was it?
>> Springrove.
[26:18] » Springrove. Springrove Burrow. Uh
they're also interested in starting
[26:22] police service at the beginning of the
year. Um we're in the beginning stages
[26:28] of a planning a September 17th
remembrance event uh for the officers
[26:33] and most likely will be held at Clauser
Park in Manchester Township.
[26:42] That was it. So, I hear a motion to
accept those reports.
[26:47] » I'll make a motion to approve the police
report and the building permit reports
[26:50] and I'll second.
>> All in favor say I.
[26:53] » I
>> I treasures report. Everybody had a
[26:57] chance to review.
>> Yes.
[26:59] » Okay. Do I hear a motion?
>> I'll make a motion any
[27:04] » I'll make a motion to approve the August
treasures report. I'll second that.
[27:08] » All in favor say I.
>> I. I
[27:12] manager the red report.
>> Thank you. Um
[27:17] » transportation is always a big topic.
>> Our picture.
[27:21] » Yeah, we'll get to the picture. Don't
don't please don't look on the picture
[27:24] on the right hand side. Um exit 28. Uh
we've been talking about this for a
[27:29] while now. There the the plan is to add
I saw you looking. Stop looking at the
[27:33] picture. You can't. Um we are planning
on adding a right turn lane when you
[27:38] come off the ramp. That work will begin
next Tuesday. So, it's going to get
[27:45] busy. It's going to get a little
ask people to slow down and be very
[27:49] careful going through that area as the
construction begins. Um, they're hoping
[27:53] to make the the work go as as
efficiently as possible. So, they've
[27:58] asked for permission to run two 12-hour
shifts. So, they'll run 24 hours a day
[28:02] to get that that ramp expansion and
widening done as as efficiently as
[28:06] possible.
Um during that time there will be a lane
[28:10] shift. The the shoulder will be closed
and and they're trying to on on a
[28:14] Saturday or a Sunday limited times.
They'll be a temporary closure. It's
[28:18] just they can finish some work in in the
road. Um Locust Point um is closed and
[28:24] will stay closed through December. That
is because the warehouses up there um
[28:30] for their Pendot permit had to do some
realignment and regrading work on the on
[28:34] the sharp curb right there. that work is
in process now. Um so that that road is
[28:40] closed and and causing it detours which
is again putting more pressure in that
[28:44] suspended trail area. So I'm just asking
again people be patient. Um traffic's a
[28:49] bit crazy. Um Canal Road Betterment
Project. Um the development team is
[28:56] working with all the utility companies
now to get all their utility plans in
[28:59] and set. Um, it's one of the big things
that that we try to look at ahead of
[29:03] time is, you know, everything that we
don't see. All the stuff that's
[29:07] underground, a lot of it has to be
moved, relocated, adjusted. The bridge
[29:11] there on canal by 83 is being replaced.
So, everything that's attached to that
[29:16] has to come off and be relocated
somewhere else. So, there's a lot of
[29:19] work that goes into getting this stuff
done. Um, Columbia Gas, as part of that
[29:23] is they're trying to get ahead of this
project and so they are continuing to
[29:26] work. You'll see their staging down at
um, Zan View Park. Uh they are working
[29:30] now on replacing their gas mains through
the intersection of Canal Road and
[29:35] Suspender Trail. Um some good news uh
we've been working with Med and we met
[29:41] with an engineer out there to look at
bringing electricity into Mil Creek
[29:45] Park. One of the main drivers for that
is we have our food truck Fridays and we
[29:50] want to be able to bring power into the
gazebo or into the pavilions and other
[29:55] facilities so that if we wanted to and
have live music out there, we can have
[29:58] amplified sound, not be running
generators, etc. So, um, we're getting a
[30:02] quote now on seeing what that's going to
cost to bring the electric into the
[30:06] park.
>> Yeah. And we checked with a couple
[30:08] different bands and things and they
don't want to come out with generators.
[30:11] They want electric.
So I think once we do that, we'll get
[30:15] more interest and we can get more um
more entertainment out there.
[30:18] » Yeah. And so this has nicer events out
there, etc. Um so that that work is
[30:24] continuing. Um big news for us in the
office is every year we have to have an
[30:29] audit um by the Pennsylvania Auditor
General uh to look at our liquid fuels
[30:34] expenses. So they they came in, they met
with us, Aaron for a couple hours. He
[30:38] was here. Um and we passed our audit.
Yes. Um it's always a a good feeling.
[30:45] All right. Now, if you draw your eyes to
the picture on the right, um one of the
[30:51] big tasks that we've been wanting to do
now is to get a tree that we can
[30:55] decorate during the holiday season. And
so we had two highly trained experts uh
[30:59] went out to a a unknown tree farm
somewhere in northern um
[31:05] » we got lost a little bit but we
>> got lost a little bit
[31:08] » ended up at a diner somewhere. Um so we
are looking at putting a tree right out
[31:12] back here by the playground. And so in
the coming around Christmas time they'll
[31:17] we'll put lights on it and decorate it.
And that's going to be part of a new
[31:20] process and we'll talk about it the next
meeting in more detail, but there'll be
[31:24] a new process we'll have for the holiday
celebrations. So,
[31:27] » we'll have a tree lighting ceremony. And
uh just to tell you the size of the
[31:32] tree. Um the one on the right is four
feet high. [laughter]
[31:37] The one on the left is five. So, you
could see how tall the tree is. It might
[31:41] be
>> 11 12
[31:43] » 10 11 12. Yeah, somewhere up there. I
wanted to put her on my shoulders, but
[31:47] she she don't want to. [laughter]
>> Yeah.
[31:52] » So, that's it. Thank you.
>> I have a question.
[31:54] » Yeah.
>> The uh Canal Road government project,
[31:59] you may not know it, but you may.
>> When they start that and they take the
[32:04] bridge out, they're going to open up
regional way
[32:07] » first.
>> Yeah, that's the plan right now.
[32:10] Actually, that's
>> to divert the traffic. So it one of the
[32:15] it's actually been the main issue and
why the project's been
[32:19] » yes is it took a lot of negotiating
between developers that were already
[32:25] involved in the project and then North
Point being a new member of the project.
[32:30] So, North Point with the construction
and ultimate dedication of regional way
[32:35] that provided a necessary detour route,
but there is a connection that has to
[32:41] occur between regional way and canal
road. That connection will likely have
[32:45] to happen twice. Once in current
conditions and once in future conditions
[32:49] when the new bridge isn't in the road,
>> right? And then men them together.
[32:52] » Correct. Correct. So, I can I can save
you uh geez probably nine months of my
[32:58] life and just tell you that was not a
fun negotiation with all the developers
[33:01] to get them to decide who's doing what
when and who's paying for what. So,
[33:06] that's delayed the project to this
point. It really we thought it'd be
[33:10] happening this year. Uh but it's as it
stands right now, regional way will be
[33:15] connected in a temporary alignment
[clears throat] with existing canal road
[33:19] to provide a detour route when the
bridge goes out.
[33:22] » Correct. And when the bridge goes in,
it'll
[33:24] » When are they supposed to open up the
culde-sac there?
[33:27] » Because I know the plans are in at the
black top plant.
[33:31] » Correct.
>> I I already know that.
[33:33] » So, the HOP the HOP is submitted uh
right now. Actually, what they're
[33:38] working on, I don't believe they're
going to do any major work on canal
[33:41] until they can get the utilities
relocated.
[33:44] » Correct. Put the lines in now. So, we
are actually we were kind of just dealt
[33:49] some interesting news this morning that
the water line relocation is going to
[33:53] cost much more than anticipated. So,
what I'll say I don't fresh news that we
[33:58] just learned today. That's the next
thing that's got to get worked out. So,
[34:02] we don't have a formal timeline yet. It
seems like as soon as every soon as one
[34:06] thing gets solved, something else comes
up and then we have to bring the brain
[34:10] trust together and
>> No, I get it. Figure it out.
[34:13] » Point point well taken. I get that. But
in all honesty, if they would actually
[34:18] open up and just temporarily open up the
culac
[34:21] » right now, that would get them trucks
off that bridge
[34:24] » because I think the problem is
>> that bridge is compromised bad.
[34:28] » I think it's that the problem is the
height of the road and if they're going
[34:32] to do
>> there that's why there's it's a it's a
[34:36] temporary connection is what they'll
build first.
[34:38] » Correct.
>> And then the permanent because the the
[34:40] road will come up when the new bridge
comes in.
[34:43] » But right now they have a stone pile.
It's a stone board firm to keep
[34:48] » guys from going past that cauticide.
>> Right. What what's holding it up right
[34:52] now again [clears throat] that that that
connection even in a temporary form is
[34:58] part of the overall project and part of
the overall HOP.
[35:02] » Okay.
>> So that piece was going to be bid I
[35:04] believe with the bridge relocation.
Okay. That would have been step one of
[35:08] the bridge replacement. But without the
bridge replacement moving that
[35:11] connection isn't moving.
>> Correct.
[35:12] » So unless doing two HOs at the same
>> Well, there's a there's Yeah, there's an
[35:19] HOP for the bridge
>> and then there's going to be an HOP for
[35:22] the road wide.
>> Okay. So, honestly, Jennifer, what they
[35:26] may do is depending upon how long this
waterline delay is or depending upon
[35:32] what happens with the bridge, they're
inspecting it every six months. Correct.
[35:35] It could cause something some part of
this to break loose into more of an
[35:39] emergency situation than
>> Correct. because the the the metal
[35:43] structure actually popped up the other
day.
[35:45] » So it so I mean be very careful going
over if you're coming from
[35:51] » East Manchester heading toward the
trail, be very careful because that
[35:55] metal girder has popped up.
>> Yeah, it's quite a bump. Yeah. So
[35:59] » Okay, Mark, do you have anything else?
>> That's it. Thank you.
[36:02] » Okay, thank you. Um solicitor's report.
>> So
[36:09] couple of things. Um,
we have an ongoing litigation matter
[36:14] with uh for some of the condemnation
that's been done around the canal road.
[36:19] There was a board appointed in that
recently. Um,
[36:24] nothing that needs any action, just an
update.
[36:26] » Could you turn your mic?
>> Oh, sorry. Try and leave it off so I
[36:30] don't. Um, so I was just saying for in
case anyone didn't hear, there's some
[36:36] property that is involved with the Canal
Road project that was condemned to use
[36:42] for some rightways and other things.
There was a uh board of viewers that was
[36:46] appointed which just sets the price at
which um that will be compensated. So
[36:51] that was recently filed work in the
courts. Um
[36:56] there was a uh
the bond has been called in for the
[37:02] enclave. Um that's been started by our
firm um you know to get compensation for
[37:08] that see if we can recover what's done.
Um it's helpful that we had been in
[37:14] touch with the developer for you know re
up until recently. So that will help our
[37:18] case um to show you know that we were
under the belief that they were going
[37:23] that they were going to do this. Um so
that will that will assist in
[37:27] » uh you know with that case. Um,
and then something that that uh isn't
[37:34] for now, but just kind of I'm planting
the seed for down the road is I you know
[37:38] I think and I've been talking with Mark
about this and this might be relevant to
[37:42] some of the items under the the the new
business, but you know, Konowago's
[37:48] ordinances are have been on the books
for a long time and I think there's
[37:51] certainly a need to kind of do a
comprehensive
[37:55] review and update of those. I mean, I I
know Mark's in the process of gathering
[37:59] all the ordinances that are kind of
everywhere and making a compilation of
[38:04] those, but I think once, you know, even
once we get them all together that um
[38:10] you know, I I would suggest that I think
you need to do some stuff that, you
[38:13] know, times have changed and a lot of
those ordinances are outdated. It makes
[38:17] it hard to enforce things because
there's so many changes in the language
[38:21] may may or may not, you know, apply to
things anymore. So, sometime in the
[38:25] next, you know,
year or two, I would say, you know,
[38:30] we're gonna I'm going to suggest that
you, you know, that we look at doing an
[38:33] updated ordinance system, you know,
comprehensive. I think it would go well
[38:37] with some of the other stuff that we're
trying to do that, you know, the new
[38:40] plans and and things like that. Um,
and there are new tools that I think
[38:46] that will make that more efficient.
AI, you know, we just need more we just
[38:51] need more data centers. So, we
>> saw a tomato. [laughter] I have a tomato
[38:54] down here.
Go there and make the tomatoes.
[38:58] » Yeah,
>> I got tomatoes down here.
[39:01] » We'll throw some lettuce and some
croutons up here and I'll mix up a
[39:04] little bacon and we're good. [laughter]
>> Okay, that's it.
[39:09] » Okay. All right. Any questions?
All right.
[39:15] Thank you, Steve. Engineers report.
>> Okay. So it it has been a very busy
[39:21] month especially with uh wrapping up
road projects and uh dealing with so
[39:26] many coordination issues with Pendot. So
as I was sitting here and looking
[39:30] through the manager's report which the
manager always goes before me so he
[39:34] talks about all the engineering stuff
[laughter]
[39:36] um that he asked me about. No just kid.
So I can I can report that I was
[39:41] involved in every one of those items
except the Christmas tree on March
[39:45] [laughter] happily. But it's been a
again it's been a busy month. The uh the
[39:50] chip seal uh the chip sealing was done
uh the f with the fog seal going down
[39:55] yesterday on those roads. Um we've been
inspecting and troubleshooting a couple
[40:01] areas out on Bremer that needs to be
cleaned up after the paving. Um some
[40:05] drainage issues that we need to deal
with. So that's ongoing. Uh but that
[40:09] pretty well brings a close to the 2026
street bids as of as of yesterday.
[40:15] And I will give a just a quick update on
developments for those of you who are
[40:20] not at the planning commission meeting.
Again, we did we did have a discussion
[40:25] with uh Tim Pash on Freedom Square phase
2. Um phase one has resumed
[40:30] construction. I know it's been sitting
for a while, but that resumed
[40:33] construction as of late last week, early
this week.
[40:36] » Uh phase two is submitted. The big thing
that we're waiting on on the planning
[40:42] commission end is again the sewer. um
they'll [cough] have to do a a planning
[40:46] module with a memorandum of
understanding related to future
[40:49] capacity. That all needs to be worked
out with the sewer authority and
[40:53] ultimately approved by DP to approve
that capacity for phase two. And so
[40:59] basically at the at the last planning
commission meeting, we just held the
[41:02] discussion about the the development,
what the future plans are, what the
[41:06] future phasing might be. No action was
taken by the planning commission and at
[41:10] this point I cannot see the township
taking any action on it until the
[41:14] planning module is figured out for phase
two. But phase one now has started up
[41:18] and and continues.
We'll talk about uh the other the other
[41:22] big development here going is the
Carbana development. We'll talk about
[41:25] that with the time extension item on the
agenda in a minute.
[41:29] » Okay. All right.
>> Any questions?
[41:33] » All right. Thank you, Derek. Yep. Uh
unfinished business. We're back to
[41:38] Carvana.
Did you want to take that Mark then?
[41:43] » Oh, Derek.
>> It does. Yes. So,
[41:46] » sorry.
>> That's fine. So, uh this evening on the
[41:49] agenda is to discuss a a time extension
for Carvana. The uh township's uh
[41:56] responsibility to act on this plan was
was going to expire here in September. A
[42:01] time extension gives us more time to
review the plan. um because if we
[42:06] wouldn't if we would be forced to act on
it tonight, we would have to deny it for
[42:12] unadressed comments and we don't want to
do that. So, we want to extend it to
[42:15] give some more time to figure it out. Uh
probably the biggest topic of uh on this
[42:20] plan has been traffic. Um, as many of
you are aware, uh, at recent discussions
[42:26] with PennDOT, um, right now what we're
kind of waiting for on the township side
[42:30] is we're waiting to see how the highway
occupancy permit uh, plays out is there
[42:36] are likely going to be some improvements
that Pandot is going to require either
[42:41] locally or regionally. Uh, yet to be
determined. Um, and Corey Green's here
[42:46] tonight. I'll let him talk in a little
bit here. Um, but basically we're The
[42:51] state is currently discussing with the
developer uh the the potential traffic
[42:56] impact from the site, the existing
traffic conditions in the area and
[43:01] discussions are ongoing about what what
can be done and what can reasonably be
[43:05] done um or reasonably expected of this
developer um to address it. So, we're
[43:10] taking a little bit of a pause on
approving the plan at this point. It's
[43:14] really the the last technical issue that
we have to address would be this
[43:18] traffic.
Cory, if I've missed anything or
[43:21] » No, I I think you pretty much covered
all the points. I don't really have
[43:26] anything to add unless there's questions
for me.
[43:32] » So, I'll recommend the uh supervisors
accept the uh time extension from
[43:38] » Carvana.
[43:46] questions.
[43:50] » Question.
>> Okay.
[43:53] » Just I'm understanding the the process a
little bit
[43:57] develops. Um so without the sewer module
has not been approved yet because it's
[44:04] only been submitted D. So really you can
move on with development from based off
[44:08] your other projects D until you have
that approval on the sewer as well. Is
[44:12] that correct? So with with this one,
it's not as severe as Freedom Square.
[44:18] Um, so with Freedom Square, I wouldn't
want to move forward on a planning
[44:22] module. I wouldn't want to move forward
on approving the plan because that's
[44:25] creating parcels.
>> So I don't want to see phase two
[44:29] creating parcels without sewer capacity
[clears throat] with this. In this
[44:32] situation, the parcel exists. It's just
a question of whether or not the
[44:35] building can be constructed. So what
you'll see kind of in our land
[44:39] development planning phase here if the
planning module we can take action on
[44:43] the plan and conditionally approve the
plan pending the planning module which
[44:48] may likely happen here because I think
we have protection that if we
[44:52] conditionally approve the plan they
can't record the plan or construct it
[44:56] until the planning module is approved.
If for some reason the planning module
[45:00] doesn't get approved, then the project's
plug is pulled or they've got to come
[45:04] back and revise their project in the
parameters that will meet what can be
[45:08] approved through the planning module.
>> Okay, that helps. And just one more kind
[45:11] of follow up on that then um with the
extension to allow them to be able to
[45:16] develop those mitigation for the traffic
impacts. Will they bring those back to
[45:20] us as a community? because there was a
lot of talk last time when they had
[45:24] their pictures up there and their lines
and their back and forth with the trucks
[45:28] and the cars.
>> Will that come back to the community
[45:31] again?
>> So, whatever improvements are proposed
[45:36] will come back to the supervisors. I
believe the the planning commission
[45:40] already conditionally approved the plan
um pending PENDOT's uh pending Pendot's
[45:47] comments. So, the plan now sits with the
supervisors. We're looking to see those
[45:52] improvements incorporated and we'll be
able to throw them up on the screen
[45:56] before the supervisors take action on
the plan.
[45:58] » Okay. Thank you. That was very helpful.
>> Yep.
[46:02] » Okay. Any other questions? And so
tonight we're just granting additional
[46:07] time.
>> You're just acknowledging acknowledging
[46:10] receipt of the time extension.
>> Okay. Do we have a a date on that time
[46:14] extension?
>> Be 45 days from September 26th, I
[46:20] believe.
to November 10th, 2020.
[46:23] » November 10th.
>> November 10th. Yeah.
[46:25] » Okay.
>> All right. Do I hear a motion to accept
[46:30] um and acknowledge that um extension
till November 10th?
[46:37] » I'll make a motion to acknowledge the
extension till November 10th or the car
[46:42] project. [snorts]
>> I'll second that.
[46:43] » All in favor say I. I.
>> I. Okay. Thank you, Cory.
[46:48] » Thank you. Thanks, G.
Okay, new business.
[46:53] Uh, trash bids. Erin, do you have
anything for us?
[46:58] » Um, I don't have anything else.
>> What your mic?
[47:02] Sorry.
>> Um, it does look like that goods was the
[47:07] overall low bidder um for a one day a
week service. Um, answer site was low
[47:13] bidder if we went with a two-day a week
trash service. Um, Steve, I'll ask that
[47:18] you talk a little bit more on this. We
did get sent a letter by form waste
[47:22] asking that we rebid um just because of
how the bid sheet was interpreted by
[47:28] alers.
>> Yeah. So, we got a letter from from
[47:33] Penways just saying, "Look, we thought
the bid the
[47:38] that it was confusing because there were
so many because there was variables,
[47:42] whether it was one day, whether it was
two days, whether we were supposed to
[47:44] bid on the whole three-year period,
whether each year could be bid separate,
[47:50] you know, was it a three-year total
price? Was it a per year price, etc."
[47:54] But, you know, we also got responses
from some of the other
[47:58] biders saying basically like, "Hey, this
was as you know, this was as good and
[48:02] detailed a bid as as we've seen." So,
you know, I'm I'm fine. I don't think
[48:06] there's any reason to
do anything or change the bids or pull
[48:10] the bids or do anything like that that
that Penwaist was asking. I mean, they
[48:14] they had the chance to bid with
everybody else. Um I I don't you know I
[48:19] think this is just [clears throat]
they didn't have the lowest bid and I
[48:23] think they're looking for a second bite
at the apple and I you know I I think
[48:26] that uh you know to see what everybody
else did and then maybe adjust. I don't
[48:30] think that's necessary. I think we had a
number of people they were the only ones
[48:33] that had questions. They basically
didn't say anything at the time they
[48:37] were submitting their bid like well
we're confused. We we don't understand
[48:40] how to bid or anything like that. So,
I'm, you know, I I think we're fine and
[48:44] and there's no reason to do anything
other than accept the bids that are the
[48:47] most advantageous to the township.
>> Okay. So, um since goods was the lowest
[48:56] bid, uh could you explain a couple of
the things? Um are we having one or two
[49:02] day on that?
>> So, I think it would be ad just to stick
[49:06] with one day. Um, I don't think there's
really anybody who would want to utilize
[49:12] that two-day service. And that would
mean trash trucks coming through here
[49:16] constantly. It would be non-stop,
>> but we would we would have um them go
[49:21] into different areas different days of
the week.
[49:24] » Yeah, you'd still have traffic through
there like all but all non-stop with
[49:28] that.
>> Yeah, I think one day a week would
[49:30] » Yeah. So, so far I haven't heard anybody
ask for more than one collection per
[49:37] week.
>> Our our our trash bills if we go two
[49:40] days a week would double.
>> Oh, yeah.
[49:42] » So, we're not in favor of that.
>> Sure.
[49:45] » Um services would pretty much stay the
same as they are now. Um your trash day
[49:50] may change. Um that was one concession
we made to try and get more biders. um
[49:56] is allowing them to come in more days a
week than just the two or three that
[50:02] there are now. So, your trash day could
change. That would be about the only
[50:06] [clears throat] major change. Um Goods
is local. They're located here in
[50:11] Manchester as well. Um they've picked up
several contracts and I so far haven't
[50:18] heard
>> Yeah, I was going to ask
[50:19] » anything adverse about that.
>> Yeah. Okay.
[50:21] » And they have low volume bags.
>> They do have the low volume service.
[50:25] Yes, they'll be offering a low volume
just as you have right now.
[50:29] » And they're a decent group of guys.
>> Okay.
[50:31] » Yeah.
>> So, that I do know. I know a couple of
[50:33] them.
>> Awesome.
[50:36] » Throwing our trash cans down.
>> Well, it would be a whole new set of
[50:40] trash cans.
>> Well, I haven't gotten mail for a couple
[50:43] days because they continuously put the
trash cans when they're done
[50:47] [clears throat] right on my mailbox. So,
I know on trash day I'm not going to get
[50:50] mail. No matter where we put them, they
go back in front of the mailbox.
[50:54] » Well, that's good news. There's no
bills. [laughter]
[50:57] » Got a couple questions in the back.
>> So, you said that they are going to do
[51:03] the bag as well. [clears throat]
Um, and then will we also have the
[51:07] option for no cost bulk pickup because
right now I don't have to pay for extra
[51:12] pickups.
>> Yep. You'll still get the the one item
[51:15] per week. um whether or not you'll have
to call in to schedule that or whether
[51:20] they'll just allow for you to put it
out. Um that is something that will
[51:24] relay to you further process.
>> Okay, that's good to know. Do you have a
[51:28] sidebyside comparison though of like
what we get now and what goods disposal
[51:33] is offering and what the cost difference
is
[51:37] » that can be shared?
[51:41] » Yeah, we can I can put that together
formally. I don't have anything right
[51:45] now in hand, but I can definitely put
that together formally for you and um
[51:50] email you or put that on the website.
>> Yes.
[51:53] » Okay. Yeah, that would be appreciated
just so we know what what changes may
[51:57] occur, but it doesn't sound like there's
going to be a lot, but I don't want
[52:00] » Right.
>> Do you know what you're paying now?
[52:02] » Uh I think I just paid my 97.
>> 97 every three months.
[52:08] » Every three months.
>> A lot of money.
[52:10] » That's a lot of money.
>> It is.
[52:12] » Yeah. So this one would be this is for
the whole year, correct?
[52:16] » That 300.
>> Yes.
[52:19] » $33421.
>> But will they bill it quarterly?
[52:24] » Probably.
>> Probably. Or
[52:26] » do we have somebody from goods here?
>> Okay.
[52:29] » Sorry, I didn't want to jump in.
[laughter]
[52:32] » We will build quarterly just as you're
used to it. I I can't think of anything
[52:35] that changes at all in the program.
>> Okay. Um the only thing only
[52:39] recommendation I would make is people
you know for the low volume we could
[52:43] also provide carts which any of the
haulers would do but the bag thing is
[52:47] kind of it's [snorts] messy stuff gets
everywhere but you know if you could do
[52:52] it all carts but it's still you know
still a low volume system.
[52:56] » Oh so you can get the can but do the low
volume
[52:58] » smaller can
>> the smaller can for both recycle and
[53:03] » trash. So that's good to know
>> because Larry, you have a gross of um
[53:10] bags, don't you?
>> At least at least a one year contract.
[53:15] » Uh that's Well,
>> is that a three-year contract?
[53:19] » It would be a three-year contract with
two um optional one-year extensions. So,
[53:23] at the end of the three years, we would
evaluate if we wanted to continue with
[53:27] goods or place our work out for bid. Um
and then if we accepted the extension,
[53:32] we would do the same thing for the
second year. We would reevaluate at the
[53:35] end of that first year um and see if we
wanted to
[53:38] » increase for four years.
>> I'm sorry.
[53:40] » Possibly no price increase for four
years then.
[53:43] » No, it would it would increase right uh
for the first three years it would be
[53:47] $33421.
[53:50] Uh the first extension on
[clears throat] the fourth year it would
[53:54] be 370.
So it would go up like
[54:00] » and then for the next year it's 383. So,
[54:06] » which would still be cheaper.
>> Well, looks like it jumps. No, it does.
[54:10] It jumps. It jumps every year though.
>> It does. It's 334 the first year, 33421.
[54:16] » Oh,
>> the first year, 345
[54:19] 91 the second year, and 35801
the third year.
[54:24] » Okay.
[54:29] » Is that right? Because I'm seeing 310.
I'm seeing 310 for 2027,
[54:34] » 321 for 2028.
[54:39] » That's the low volume. Okay. Okay. Okay.
Sorry about that.
[54:45] » Okay, [laughter]
numbers on this sheet.
[54:49] » Mr. Lagani, you had a question.
>> So, they provide [clears throat] the
[54:53] totes. Is there a rental fee for the
totes or can you buy it outright so you
[54:56] don't have to pay a monthly fee for the
tote?
[54:58] » There's no monthly fee for the tote.
[55:02] Good question.
>> I I think there's a little confusion
[55:06] with all those numbers because they they
actually bid it incorrectly. They filled
[55:11] the bid form out incorrectly. There was
only one line for the price. Um but they
[55:19] they filled out a lot.
>> Okay.
[55:24] » What you're saying this this bid we have
is incorrect.
[55:28] » They they filled it out incorrectly.
But they're going to honor it.
[55:33] » I think his point is the other companies
could have filled it out incorrectly as
[55:36] well and maybe gave you better prices.
And you're not looking at apples and
[55:39] apples now. You're looking at one apple
versus orange.
[55:42] » Okay. We have a question.
>> I'm with Ben Waste and that's exactly
[55:45] why we submitted the form across the
[clears throat] board. Each provider
[55:52] did different things. Cella provided an
annual rate. goods provided broken out
[55:58] by three years when the bid specifically
stated he wanted a fixed threeyear rate
[56:03] one year for the first year extension
and the second year extension. That's
[56:08] the only reason we offered or asked
about possible rebid because you are not
[56:14] comparing apples to apples based on how
it's how they were submitted.
[56:20] » And are you with a different company?
[56:27] » [laughter]
[56:29] » Well,
>> do we hear
[56:32] » even if you look at Well, even a couple
years ago you wanted to start our own
[56:37] trash company. It's like, yeah, okay.
>> But even if we look at these numbers,
[56:44] » it doesn't matter if we do one, two,
three, four, five years. [clears throat]
[56:49] Goods is lower in all of them.
I [clears throat] guess the point is if
[56:55] you request it in the bid specs, you
must honor the bid specs. Even if we are
[57:00] not the low bidder, that's I'm not
trying to say you need to go with pen
[57:05] waste. If bid specs requests a fixed
three-year rate, that's what should be
[57:10] submitted. If it's not,
>> I don't it's not responsive.
[57:16] » Can I ask a question on that though? Is
low bid our only determining factor that
[57:21] you're utilizing to make that decision?
>> No.
[57:23] » Or are there other
>> service services as well as as far as
[57:27] someone that we have? You know,
>> we've had a lot
[57:31] » of complaints
>> complaints with Absolutely.
[57:33] » Oh, yeah.
>> and that's one thing.
[57:38] [laughter]
>> I just want to like kind of put that out
[57:41] there that it's not just
>> No, it's not.
[57:46] » So, you take it consideration the best
value.
[57:50] » Right. Right.
>> Yeah. And and usually you do take the
[57:55] low bid unless there's we know there's
an issue.
[57:59] » Yeah.
>> I think you need to clarify that it's
[58:01] not this is not like a like a bundle
meal here. It's it's the lowest
[58:05] responsive bidder. So you can't pick
like the fourth because you think it's
[58:10] the best value.
>> Okay. You have to start at the bottom
[58:13] and actually disqualify biders until you
Yes,
[58:16] » that's what I was looking at.
>> Yeah, we Yeah, just clarify.
[58:19] » Yeah, those others can be used as
factors if you want to eliminate
[58:22] somebody like if you're if you've had a
problematic history or something or you
[58:26] were aware of some other thing.
>> We we had that with we had that with
[58:30] line pain. The one company that we had
um they were inferior. So even when they
[58:36] bid, we would not take their bid.
>> Mr. have gone.
[58:40] » As the solicitor, can you verify that
we're not opening ourselves up to a
[58:43] lawsuit if we accept the first bid and
then the other two say, "Well, you
[58:47] should have took their bid and then
>> Here's here's here's what I'm going to
[58:51] answer." And this is a question that I
get all the time. If you're asking
[58:54] » sue anybody for anything.
>> Yes.
[58:56] » Oh my goodness. [snorts]
>> I I can't tell.
[58:59] » I wanted it to be thought of, that's
all.
[59:01] » Yeah. Yep. Well, one question I would
have for uh the attendees here, how many
[59:06] of our residents want to continue with
the trash service we have? Let's see
[59:10] some hands.
[59:13] » Okay, I think that tells you right
there.
[59:17] » What was the what was the the current um
price per for
[59:24] » and change?
So are I mean granted there are are some
[59:30] adjustments that township makes to
account for like things like
[59:33] delinquencies. Oh no no no actually I'm
sorry. No that's on us. Yeah. Um our
[59:39] price our quarterly price as the lowest
responsive bidder was 9450 per quart.
[59:49] So we are we're lower than current
[59:54] and we are the lowest responsive bid. We
fil we filled the form out. Correct.
[59:59] » Okay. Well, we have till December. Do we
want to put this on homemark?
[1:00:03] » If you want to we can we can tailor this
till the next meeting if you want. But
[1:00:06] » may I jump in here? So I did ask a
question to the township which was
[1:00:10] answered. They were looking for
according to Miss Dell and I don't know
[1:00:14] if you know consult with your township
manager but they were looking for a per
[1:00:19] unit price per year. That's the way we
broke it out. uh you're also looking for
[1:00:24] a low volume service which we broke out.
There's nothing wrong with breaking out
[1:00:29] your prices. You want to add the three
together, you get the same number that
[1:00:32] they're at or average. Uh the reason we
did it that way was to be responsive
[1:00:37] because if you're asking for low volume,
you can't go into a bid and say, "All
[1:00:42] right, our regular price is 334." And
then all of a sudden you accept our bid,
[1:00:46] but we didn't give you a low volume
price. So to me and as a township
[1:00:50] resident I would want visibility to all
those things which we provided very well
[1:00:54] laid out there for the threeear and then
plus the two extra terms. So to me it
[1:00:59] seems very straightforward.
There was an option for the low volume
[1:01:03] price though was there was an op there
was a a line portion that asked for the
[1:01:08] price for the bag
which was the low volume option that was
[1:01:13] presented
>> which was filled out on the
[1:01:19] » you [clears throat] had another resident
question
[1:01:23] » oh sorry are we are they still going to
take big items and and brush Yes.
[1:01:32] That's that's part of the that's part of
the the township put that together. That
[1:01:35] that's part of it.
>> And Christmas tree, I suppose.
[1:01:39] » Yes.
>> Yeah. Is Darl
[1:01:42] » um during the last negotiations years
ago, we got a number of dumpsters
[1:01:48] included in the bid. Are you
>> with the fire company? You're saying
[1:01:51] » is that still going to be included?
>> I believe that was in the bid.
[1:01:55] » Yes, they were included.
>> Yep.
[1:01:57] » Okay. Stop by.
>> Yeah, good question. Would there be u
[1:02:03] any uh reason for us not to vote on it
tonight? I
[1:02:07] » mean, their highest year [clears throat]
is still lower than everybody else's
[1:02:12] average, right? So,
I don't see there's any reason to delay
[1:02:17] this. I'm I'm comfortable. Again, you
know, I I can't say what how every
[1:02:22] anybody's going to respond, but I think
it's entirely defensible that we took a
[1:02:26] bid that was significantly lower than
everybody else.
[1:02:29] » Okay.
>> In in the bid contract and and Erin and
[1:02:34] I went through this, we did ask for our
bid for the first three years, we didn't
[1:02:37] say it had to stay the same all three
years. And I think that's where good
[1:02:41] simply said each year we do it
differently. So, I don't I don't find
[1:02:44] that being unresponsive or
non-responsive. I think they chose to
[1:02:47] break it out differently than at one
price for the first three years, then
[1:02:50] escalator for the next two. That's how I
saw it.
[1:02:55] [snorts]
[1:02:58] » But then again, if we take the first
three years, um the other companies,
[1:03:03] they're the same for all three years.
>> Right.
[1:03:05] » But they're still higher. They're still
higher.
[1:03:07] » But they're still higher.
>> Correct. Right. Correct.
[1:03:09] » Uh so each one is higher than even our
third year.
[1:03:14] » Right. That's what I'm saying. actually
down to uh the second year extension
[1:03:18] which is five years.
>> Yeah.
[1:03:20] » So
>> which is why we kind of we took the
[1:03:23] charge and then summed at the bottom
looking at the first three years that's
[1:03:26] that in the initial three-year cost per
household
[1:03:30] » just to try to give a fair way to make
sure we're looking at it right. We
[1:03:33] balanced them out and and goods came out
lower. And if others had chosen to to
[1:03:38] alter their price per year each year, we
we would have run those numbers and
[1:03:43] looked at it. But based on the total bid
value looking at the first three years
[1:03:48] and the two escalator years I believe
goods was a response to better in the
[1:03:52] lowest.
[1:03:58] » The totes
>> well if and if you have if you have low
[1:04:03] volume they're still going to get some
kind of a um can card or something.
[1:04:07] » That's what I'm suggesting. The midsp
spec do bags. I can tell you I can speak
[1:04:11] probably for everybody in this row. bags
are an issue problem rather give smaller
[1:04:16] to the low volume than do bags.
>> Well, we can we can give the toters out
[1:04:21] for $39 [clears throat] a year.
>> I can say that
[1:04:25] » I like the large to even though I'm by
myself. I still like having the large.
[1:04:33] » Okay. Do um I hear any uh
recommendations for um approval to vote
[1:04:40] on this tonight? Yeah, I think we can
prove on it. What's your thoughts, John?
[1:04:43] » Uh, I think we're fine. Let's do it.
>> I'll make a motion to approve goods as
[1:04:47] the new trash hauler.
>> And I'll second that.
[1:04:50] » All in favor say I.
>> I.
[1:04:52] » I.
>> Any discussion?
[1:04:56] » Good.
>> Okay. All right. Thank you.
[1:05:01] » Okay. Uh 2027 SPCA animal care and
housing agreement. Now, that's one I
[1:05:08] would like to hold off on a little bit.
>> I didn't really get a chance to read
[1:05:13] through everything.
[1:05:18] » I really didn't get a chance to read
through everything. So, did you guys
[1:05:21] have a chance to
>> Yeah, I did it. And and Okay, I did have
[1:05:25] a question on the one here. One of the
specs to what we took in here.
[1:05:30] » Yeah, I did too. And I was looking at
that and I thought that's an awful lot
[1:05:33] of questions.
>> Well, okay. What what is the the TNR
[1:05:36] cats? [clears throat]
>> Trap SN
[1:05:39] » trap and release.
>> Trap and release. Okay. What's the SN
[1:05:42] stand for?
>> Spay and neuter. Okay. I'm thinking I'm
[1:05:47] thinking serial level.
>> Yeah. [laughter] They're they're feral
[1:05:50] cats that they uh trap and then they
take them in and then they spay and
[1:05:55] neuter them and they clip their ear. So
if they are trapped again, they know
[1:06:00] that they're uh not going to raise the
price on that, I believe.
[1:06:04] » Okay. So you got what a
>> So the stray Okay. What What are the
[1:06:08] just the strays at? Is that just a stray
that someone took in?
[1:06:12] » Well, there are people here in the
township that actually will catch them
[1:06:15] where they're running around at and go
get them spayed and ne and they bring
[1:06:19] them back from where they called them
and let them go. I'm glad
[1:06:22] » owner surrendered with seven
>> and then the forms do that.
[1:06:27] Like a lot of farmers do that.
>> It's not just like there are places
[1:06:31] where people do not
>> because I have multiple stray cats in my
[1:06:38] » my dog hates cats too,
>> but it's okay.
[1:06:43] » So studies have shown that the the TNR
program, which is trap, neuter, release,
[1:06:49] is one of the most effective ways to
manage deferral cat population. If you
[1:06:54] go and you trap them and you relocate
them, it just creates a vacancy, if you
[1:06:59] will, in that colony and the colonies
will only get so big and then it it's
[1:07:04] they move on. So, if they keep having
babies, then then the colonies spread
[1:07:08] and they get bigger and bigger. Correct.
>> If you do a TNR program, um, then you
[1:07:12] are limiting the reproductive process of
these feral cats.
[1:07:17] It is. But my concern with all that is
the fact that this township paid them
[1:07:21] more money to keep them and then they
raised the cost of that. I believe it's
[1:07:27] now like $40. Is anybody on there with
it? Used to be 20, but I think it's 40
[1:07:32] now. If if we as a township do not sign
an agreement with the SPCA, then that
[1:07:40] creates problems for us because then if
we have stray animals, then we have not
[1:07:44] able to take them there.
>> Yeah. if we don't have an agreement with
[1:07:47] them.
>> And we had a big problem last year
[1:07:50] because if we didn't sign a contract, u
not only would they not take it, but if
[1:07:56] we did sign a contract at that time,
they had to be brought in by
[1:08:02] police officer who who wants to put a
crazy dog in the back of their car.
[1:08:07] » That's that's not a good use of
>> or we had to have a uh animal uh
[1:08:12] » controller
>> controller,
[1:08:13] » which we don't have right now either. We
don't have an animal. So, two separate
[1:08:16] pieces. One is having the SPCA as a
place we can take the animals to and
[1:08:20] then animal control officer that goes
out and gets them. I know Becky, you had
[1:08:23] done some research on this when we you
first started. Um, is there anything you
[1:08:28] want to add to this about what you
learned?
[1:08:30] » Well,
you already said basically what I
[1:08:34] learned that that you want the contract
because otherwise you have no recourse.
[1:08:40] If an animal shows up and you're trying
to get it someplace, there's just
[1:08:45] nothing. They will turn you away. They
will not accept it if you don't have the
[1:08:49] contract.
>> And the animal control officer helps
[1:08:53] because that's somebody who can respond
and take it from your property and
[1:08:58] [snorts] get it to the SBCA. If you
don't have that, then that falls on the
[1:09:04] property owner, whoever is there dealing
with with the stray animal.
[1:09:08] » Right.
>> You had a question. Um I have like
[1:09:11] followed the SPCA. The one thing was
last year um Adams County asked um
[1:09:16] nobody in this area to keep bringing
their we've been taking our cats over to
[1:09:21] Adams County because the SPCA in York
was not taking cats.
[1:09:26] » So I would kind of be hesitant on what I
agree with with the SPCA. Also their
[1:09:33] their person in charge um doesn't like
smells of cats. don't doesn't like the
[1:09:40] environment, so they rent out the um the
bank next door and that's where he works
[1:09:45] out of.
>> So, um
[1:09:48] » Wow.
>> Yeah.
[1:09:49] » I mean,
>> are you talking about Stephen?
[1:09:52] » Is that the guy?
>> I think so. Yeah, he's the guy in
[1:09:56] charge.
>> Yeah, he was the guy that wouldn't leave
[1:09:59] unless I signed a contract.
>> Wow.
[1:10:02] » And then I just got up and left the
room. So, I guess he left. Or is he
[1:10:06] still back here? [laughter]
I'm just saying they feel like they're
[1:10:11] the only game in town.
>> Yeah. Well, and basically they are and a
[1:10:15] lot of people when they they wouldn't
take them they would take them up to
[1:10:18] Adams County and then Adams County was
really throwing a fed. So when I went up
[1:10:22] to Yeah. When I went up to Northern
Regional, um, it wasn't about police
[1:10:27] work or anything, but I asked all the
other commissioners from other
[1:10:30] municipalities, you know, what their
thought was, and I got with them to bulk
[1:10:36] about it. And we ended up through the 11
municipalities having that change that
[1:10:43] yes, they would take the animals
>> because before and it started out at
[1:10:48] like 3,000, $4,000, kept going up. This
year it's $7,759.
[1:10:54] » I think if you look at their pay, like
this the person in charge.
[1:10:58] » Oh yeah, they're getting paid.
>> Yeah, it's a lot of money.
[1:11:00] » Well, it looks like if if I'm calculate
the numbers right, it looks like they
[1:11:03] took in 199 cats and at that price
that's $39 a cat
[1:11:12] for last year.
>> Well, they taking dogs, too.
[1:11:16] » Well, I'm just Well, it just says stray
intakes.
[1:11:18] » Oh, okay. So, they took in 199 animals
from what I
[1:11:24] » do. [snorts] We want to do we want to
review this a little bit.
[1:11:27] » Sure. There's no rush.
>> Yeah.
[1:11:29] » Uh we have till December something here.
I forget what the date was um to
[1:11:35] » I think it's mid December to sign this.
>> We could discuss it especially during
[1:11:41] our budget meeting. Right.
>> We can.
[1:11:45] They do they do a lot of work. If um
there's an abusive family uh and
[1:11:50] somebody one of the spouses has to move
out or the children, they take in the
[1:11:55] animals at no charge.
>> The only thing is with that though, and
[1:11:59] I know this for firsthand, I know too
many people that have lost their animals
[1:12:03] by doing that. They get homeless and
they're stuck somewhere and they have no
[1:12:08] other recourse to do except take their
animal there to be on a 30 day hold so
[1:12:15] they can get back on their feet and then
within
[1:12:19] » a week of that animal being there, that
animal is gone.
[1:12:24] They don't uphold what they say.
>> Well, when we went in there and did the
[1:12:28] Torah, the only thing I seen in there
were cats and pitbulls.
[1:12:32] That was the, you know, basically the
only animal they had
[1:12:35] » $40 now for TNR and it used to be 20.
>> So that's a lot of money for people who
[1:12:42] are volunteeringly picking that animal
up, taking it there, getting it taken
[1:12:47] care of, and then coming back to get it
because there are people who are
[1:12:51] actually citizens who are putting that
out of their pocket to control the
[1:12:55] population,
right? And for them to keep raising the
[1:12:59] cost and then asking for more money from
us.
[1:13:02] I I got a little bit. [cough]
>> Well, that's why we every year it's just
[1:13:06] you can always count on her Loretta
getting irritated about it. So,
[1:13:11] » well, I'm right there with you because I
don't feel like
[1:13:14] » Well, and you always hear uh people
because uh money to them through, you
[1:13:19] know, funerals and things and uh you
know, they seem to get a lot of money
[1:13:23] and they get a lot of food donations. I
mean, bags and bags. When I went in
[1:13:27] there, they had they had skids of food
and they had um and they said that this
[1:13:33] was all donated and cases of cat food
and litter and
[1:13:38] » and we need to do a right to know. But
point well taken though if if they would
[1:13:43] keep the price at $20 an hour. It is
actually saving the SBCA anyway because
[1:13:50] it it's they're doing it as by their
doctors. But if per say uh if they ch
[1:13:57] raise the the price for you know the TNR
at 40 people are not going to want to do
[1:14:04] that. So then the cats are going to just
multiply. People are just going to just
[1:14:07] let them row. Okay. Then you're going to
have all these people gathered getting
[1:14:11] fit by or getting strapped by strays
that don't have their vaccinations and
[1:14:16] so forth. Then you have um
>> just other just other things to where
[1:14:22] the animals are not being taken care of.
>> But if you keep it if they would
[1:14:26] actually keep it at $20 where people are
okay with that, they're still getting
[1:14:31] the animal back. They're feeding it.
Sometimes they can get them nice enough
[1:14:36] to where they'll actually bring them in
their house and they get their shots.
[1:14:39] » Yeah.
>> Yeah.
[1:14:40] » It's just I think it's a money grab
through SPC.
[1:14:44] » I think you're right. And at at some
point to your point, Sherry Sheree, is
[1:14:48] that uh people will be like, why what's
what's the point, you know, why get
[1:14:52] involved? Because it's too expensive.
>> We got we got a rabies outbreak up in
[1:14:55] Ed.
>> Yes. I've seen Yeah. Somebody was bit
[1:14:57] by.
>> I've read somewhere it's been several
[1:15:00] now.
>> Yeah. Yeah. The only thing if we don't
[1:15:04] sign it, they kind of have you over a
barrel. If you don't sign it, they won't
[1:15:07] take any of your animals, which which is
bad.
[1:15:10] » Can we counter propose at all?
>> Maybe we need to get with other.
[1:15:14] » Do you ever talk to Stephen? What's
Steven's last name?
[1:15:17] » Martinez.
>> Martinez. Do you ever talk to Steven
[1:15:20] Martinez? He's an idiot.
>> Maybe we need to get through his
[1:15:24] township.
>> All the townships put their foot down
[1:15:28] saying this what we'll do. So we all get
together with different townships and
[1:15:32] become a team.
>> Yeah. And that's what happened last time
[1:15:35] and then they agreed. Okay. Okay. We'll
take them. So, [clears throat]
[1:15:39] » all right. Well, we'll put that on hold.
>> Question. Um, I know you guys said
[1:15:45] you're going to put it on hold and
investigate a little bit more and maybe
[1:15:48] you have the numbers up there, but it'd
be interesting to see on their special
[1:15:52] programs as well, how many of those that
they're actually doing and how many of
[1:15:58] » benefit Konaga Township residents,
>> right? How is this benefiting Konagago
[1:16:02] Township?
>> Yeah,
[1:16:03] » because if not, there is the option that
you could look at working with a
[1:16:09] private nonprofit instead.
[1:16:13] one at a time. There's a couple of them
out [laughter] there.
[1:16:19] » We looked at them before and no one
wanted to help us.
[1:16:23] » I was a couple years ago now.
>> I just want to let you like the York
[1:16:28] Revolution. They do
the beneficiary this year.
[1:16:34] » So they do have a lot of money coming in
from private organizations. Yeah.
[1:16:39] » And when I went in and toured uh when we
balked about it last year, uh Northern
[1:16:45] Regional Chief went along in and a bunch
of people and uh they kind of have a um
[1:16:52] uh conveyor line that when
[clears throat] they spay or neuter uh
[1:16:56] the one and it only takes a couple
seconds to do it because the one person
[1:17:02] gives them the anesthesia and they pass
them down the table. The next one shaves
[1:17:06] them, pass down the table, next one cuts
them open, and then the doctor, it takes
[1:17:11] a like I forget how many she said she
did in like in an hour. It was
[1:17:18] unbelievable how many. Then they just
send it down and somebody stitches them
[1:17:22] up and gives them the u puts them back
in their cage and they're good to go.
[1:17:27] And it takes very little time. It's
almost like, you know, an assembly line.
[1:17:32] » Conveyor belt.
>> Yeah. It's like a conveyor belt going
[1:17:35] down. [laughter]
Okay, we're going to u you ought to go
[1:17:37] in there and tour it sometime and and uh
tell Stephen Martinez I sent you.
[1:17:42] » I just to just to follow up on um
[laughter] the comment made, I I think
[1:17:48] we should definitely investigate other
other opportunities for the township to
[1:17:53] maybe there are other nonprofits that we
should welcome into the township. I
[1:17:58] mean, I mean, maybe you've done we've
done research before, but let's let's
[1:18:02] take another look.
>> Well, and when Shannon was here, uh, she
[1:18:05] asked them for a detailed list of how
many dogs we got and how many cats it
[1:18:10] came out of Connival Township, and they
said, "Oh, if we do that for everybody,
[1:18:16] we're going to hire more people. It's
going to cost more money." And they they
[1:18:19] wouldn't give it to us.
>> So, I don't know if you could do it
[1:18:22] right to know on a nonprofit like that.
I don't know.
[1:18:26] » You you check that out. I think that's
on the planning.
[1:18:28] » I'll just play a field trip.
>> The planning department that's a zoning
[1:18:32] that's a zoning issue. Yeah, the zoning
on the zoning board a little bit.
[1:18:36] » Okay, you get on that, Sherry. All
right. Uh, so we're going to just table
[1:18:40] that. Okay.
[1:18:45] » All right. The next one, uh, brush truck
for Strtown Fire Company.
[1:18:49] » Yep. Okay, I'll take this. Um,
I'm the liaison for Strtown Fire
[1:18:55] Company. Um, I also sit as an officer on
there. I'm a I'm the chief engineer,
[1:19:00] which I'm in charge of all the the
equipment. Um, our brush truck failed
[1:19:06] inspection. It's a 1997 Ford. I think
it's a 450. Yeah, right there it is.
[1:19:12] Actually, that that failed inspection
here. It's 30 years old. Um, it has low
[1:19:18] miles on, but we right now it's out of
service uh because it won't pass
[1:19:23] inspection. So, I hate to put money in
an old 30-y old truck. I just can't see
[1:19:30] putting money into it. Um,
so I Let me just go down through some
[1:19:35] numbers here. What what we're looking at
here. We're 100% volunteer. Last year
[1:19:41] for 2025, we ran 459 calls.
And then I I'll just go down through the
[1:19:47] list of equipment here of what year it
is, how old it is. Engine 261 is a 2023,
[1:19:53] which is our newest piece. Engine 262 is
a 2003.
[1:19:58] Engine 263 is a 1991.
Engine 264 is a 2001. [clears throat]
[1:20:05] Our rescue is a 2006, which was donated
by ES3.
[1:20:11] Um, our tanker is a 1999.
Our brush truck is a 1997.
[1:20:18] The chief's truck is a 2024
and our traffic unit is a 2017.
[1:20:26] Now, we do take in we do take in the
fire tax which is including everyone's
[1:20:31] [clears throat] taxes for their
property. Last year, we took in on the
[1:20:35] fire tax was 181,000 in fire tax.
In 2025, our expenses were all but
[1:20:42] 226,000.
So, we're we're we have a shortfall of
[1:20:47] roughly 44,000 a year that we have to
raise.
[1:20:51] Now, we do get state relief money which
comes to the township and which gets
[1:20:56] then transferred directly to the fire
company. Um that was 65,000
[1:21:02] last year and that varies. One year
it'll be 50ome,000, the next year it'll
[1:21:07] be more. and and that that that is
outofstate insurance money that it comes
[1:21:12] back to the and they distribute that to
the the fire companies within
[1:21:16] Pennsylvania. So, you never know exactly
what you're getting there. That money
[1:21:20] has to be used for
um safety safety of firefighters is what
[1:21:27] it has to be used for. Um you know,
equipment certain things equipment wise
[1:21:31] on the trucks. Uh we can't use it for a
building. We can't use it for a truck.
[1:21:37] We can't use it for anything else. Um,
our chicken barbecues,
[1:21:43] we're if if the ones we do there now, I
mean, it's a whole day. You got a whole
[1:21:49] I don't know how how many people help
with that, Darl? Do you know? And 15
[1:21:53] » of the members.
>> Yeah, probably 15, 20, 25 members help
[1:21:56] with that. That's a whole day. We make
like $2,000 on that.
[1:22:00] » How many do you have a year?
>> Uh, typically two.
[1:22:04] » How many do you have this year?
>> We had one already. We have another one.
[1:22:07] We have another one scheduled. We
actually have a shrimp feed um that you
[1:22:11] had to buy tickets for that is actually
in like two weeks. So, we are we are
[1:22:15] doing fundraisers, but
we we are trying to raise money
[1:22:20] ourselves as far as that. But my gosh,
it it for $2,000 for a whole day's work
[1:22:25] for 20 people, it's just not worth it.
We might as well each donate a hundred
[1:22:28] bucks and stay home. Uh but it it's uh
so I I'm I'm coming to the township to
[1:22:36] ask if the township would consider
buying either a brush truck or a mini
[1:22:41] pumper for the fire company and that and
that serves our whole community here and
[1:22:46] and actually surrounding community. We
get called out to Manchester, York
[1:22:50] Haven. Uh we we get called all over the
place that we respond to which if we
[1:22:55] need help, everybody comes in. I when we
had that field fire down there at Rex
[1:23:00] Roth, there was [clears throat] there
was I I think I remember seeing a
[1:23:03] Maryland fire company there with a brush
truck because we needed brush trucks.
[1:23:06] There was there was fire companies from
everywhere. Uh
[1:23:10] plus we had we had we had two or three
of our engines there plus our brush
[1:23:14] truck. But uh the the brush truck is a
vital piece for us because it we have a
[1:23:21] lot of mountain area. We do have a lot
of areas that we can't get an engine in.
[1:23:26] uh whether it's trees that overhang
driveways, whether the driveways are too
[1:23:30] steep, um someplace we got to cross a
culvert and we can't get our we don't
[1:23:35] want to take a you know a million and a
half dollar engine in there just because
[1:23:39] we're afraid we're going to end up in
the culvert. Uh,
[1:23:43] so I I'm I'm requesting
through the fire company. Basically, I'm
[1:23:48] I'm initiating this to see if the
township would would help us or or even
[1:23:55] or even pay for an either a fresh truck
or or a I I personally would like to see
[1:24:02] a mini pumper. A mini pumper is about
$100,000 more. Um, if we in my, this is
[1:24:10] only my opinion now, if we were able to
get a mini pumper,
[1:24:13] » I could see us selling our 1991 engine 3
and get that out of service. Get sell
[1:24:19] it. Um, engine two would become a a
reserve engine. And we would probably
[1:24:25] respond out of station two here with a
mini pumper. Um, which typically the
[1:24:32] mini pumper is is going to get to the
our mountain areas first.
[1:24:36] Uh and and it could be utilized as a
brush truck as well. Um they're
[1:24:42] four-wheel drive. They're half the size
of an engine. Um they carry typically
[1:24:48] around 300 gallons of water where an
engine will carry, you know, 6 to 800
[1:24:53] gallons of water. Um but you can at
least get a quick response on a whether
[1:25:00] it's a house fire, car fire. Uh,
>> so yeah, that that's kind of where I'm
[1:25:06] at.
>> My question to you, what benefits what
[1:25:09] benefits Kanago more?
>> Well, and and this is my personal
[1:25:13] opinion, but I I think I think a a mini
pumper would would serve it would be a
[1:25:19] it would be a first piece out of the
station where a brush truck, you know,
[1:25:26] is only going to come out when we have a
field fire, when we have mountain fire.
[1:25:31] Um, this is the price for a mini pumper.
>> Okay. What's the price for a uh brush
[1:25:38] truck?
>> For a brush truck, you're around 300,000
[1:25:40] for a brush truck. Uh, a mini pumper is
is just under 400,000. Now, that's
[1:25:46] that's no equipment on it. No hose, no
nothing,
[1:25:49] » but you could use your state money for
that.
[1:25:52] » No, you can't use state you can't use
relief money for equipment. Not Not for
[1:25:56] an engine. Am I right in that?
>> Okay. Yeah, you can't you can't use
[1:26:00] relief money for it.
>> Use that relief money to buy the stuff
[1:26:03] that we
>> you can use some but that relief money
[1:26:06] goes typically that goes to to buy stuff
for the current equipment.
[1:26:11] » Okay.
>> Not to I mean we we could cover you know
[1:26:14] some hose and stuff like that.
>> So could we go to some of these
[1:26:17] businesses in the township and ask for
donations?
[1:26:21] » We we tried we've tried that.
>> We do that every year. We bag and we bag
[1:26:26] and we bag.
>> Yeah. They just don't cooperate.
[1:26:29] » Now, see, we did we did
I came up with this when we were putting
[1:26:33] these warehouses in. I asked for the
warehouses to pay [snorts] so much per
[1:26:37] square foot to donate to the fire
company. And those funds are set aside
[1:26:42] for a a truck fund. I don't And we only
have it's
[1:26:47] » it's under 200,000. It's under 200,000
in that truck fund, but that that truck
[1:26:52] fund I would like to keep for some of
our other aging equipment like like the
[1:26:57] engine that sits back here. It's a 2003
uh you know that's already 23 years old
[1:27:03] but 24 years old.
>> Did you guys apply for any of the uh
[1:27:07] state capital grants through
>> that comes up we apply for?
[1:27:12] » So did you not you weren't successful in
getting those?
[1:27:15] » Uh we get we get grants. We do. We just
got one. Uh, and they're and they're all
[1:27:18] specific like we just got one. We put a
an exhaust system in in you know like
[1:27:23] when you start a truck up in the shop or
in the in the uh station there. We have
[1:27:28] an exhaust system now [clears throat]
that every piece hooks to that when you
[1:27:32] start that when you pull out it
automatically disconnects that you know
[1:27:36] you're not breathing the fumes in.
>> Right.
[1:27:38] » Um
uh let's see. I forget what the other
[1:27:41] » What about the uh fundraiser that you
send out the papers? We we do get
[1:27:46] » How much do you get?
>> We do get from that.
[1:27:49] » I'm I'm not sure what that that number
is. I don't have that right.
[1:27:52] » I think she reported like 14 something.
>> 14,000. Yeah.
[1:27:56] » It's time for you guys to hit the roads
with boots.
[1:27:58] » What's that?
>> It's time to hit the corners with the
[1:28:00] boots. [laughter]
>> Well,
[1:28:02] » we need volunteers.
>> Yeah, we need we need volunteers, too.
[1:28:05] So, that that's the other thing. If
>> go to the high school and get the high
[1:28:08] school kids who have to put in volunteer
hours.
[1:28:10] » Well, they got to be 18. I'm talking
firefighters. They got to be 18 to
[1:28:15] » talking. You could get the high
schoolers have to put in volunteer
[1:28:19] hours.
>> Give them a boo.
[1:28:21] » Yeah. One of the things I I will say uh
Loretta and I went to a um uh went to a
[1:28:27] uh York County uh PATS convention. Was
it 2024
[1:28:33] » or 25? Where was last year or the year
before?
[1:28:36] » 24.
the the volunteer fire departments that
[1:28:40] are in Pennsylvania are under extreme
strain right now and that that in 2024
[1:28:47] we were tipped off that
>> eventually it's going to uh we're going
[1:28:52] to hit a cliff and it'll move to a
>> more of a paid type of environment
[1:28:57] because they're on average some of the
fire companies have uh volunteers that
[1:29:02] are in their 70s and 80s and you know
that's just it's not what it was. And
[1:29:08] with that, the the support of those fire
departments are is lacking. And I always
[1:29:14] say this, you don't need them until you
need them. And then all of a sudden, you
[1:29:18] would have, could have, should have. And
then, you know, that doesn't help, you
[1:29:22] know, the community. So, um,
>> well, the beginning of last year, I did
[1:29:26] reach out to Yafer, which is our local
fire department here, uh, that is a paid
[1:29:31] fire department,
>> just to get some numbers to know what
[1:29:34] what we were looking at if we would ever
have to go that route. Uh, it was it was
[1:29:39] like $1.3 million and that that only
gave you two guys for 40 hours a week.
[1:29:44] Um, and that was Yeah, that I mean that
that's what we're
[1:29:48] » Well, you have full coverage, though.
It's not like they'd work 40 hours, go
[1:29:52] home, and you wouldn't have covered.
>> Oh, yeah. Yeah. They're not here.
[1:29:54] They're They're here 40 hours a week.
That's it. And that was two That was two
[1:29:57] guys. Now, if you had That wasn't full
coverage. That wasn't full coverage.
[1:30:03] » Uh,
>> I think we'd have to research it. I I
[1:30:06] just
>> so with our big our big companies like
[1:30:09] Carvana who is sitting here as a
multi-million dollar company in our
[1:30:13] community. Do they not donate or support
our local fire department even though we
[1:30:17] are the ones who respond to their fires?
>> They also well they they also pay the
[1:30:21] fire tax which which whatever their
property is valued at, they're going to
[1:30:24] pay, you know,
>> a proportionate amount.
[1:30:27] » Yeah, it it is.
>> But where does the fire tax go?
[1:30:30] » Where does the fire
>> Does it directly go to you?
[1:30:32] » That goes directly to the fire company.
Yeah.
[1:30:34] » Okay.
>> Yeah.
[1:30:34] » Yeah. Um,
>> which for last year was
[1:30:38] » 18181,000
last year.
[1:30:40] » So, do we have the option to raise our
fire tax?
[1:30:43] » We do.
>> We do.
[1:30:44] » We do, but I I I don't want to do that.
Like right now, the township has money
[1:30:49] in reserves
>> that it's it's your tax dollars anyway.
[1:30:53] » So, so rather than raise that fire tax,
the township has it in reserves now. So,
[1:30:59] I I'm asking the township to pull that
from reserves, give it to the fire
[1:31:03] company to buy this piece up up to this
point to buy that engine or or brush
[1:31:07] truck or whatever we decide.
>> Uh, and and not raise the fire tax. You
[1:31:13] know, I'm not one to raise fire any any
tax. I don't I don't like raising any
[1:31:16] taxes. If we can work within our means,
that's what we're going to do. I
[1:31:20] understand that. But we have some really
big multi-million dollar companies.
[1:31:23] [laughter]
They have a lot of square foot
[1:31:27] » and that's what happened when ES3 came
in.
[1:31:29] » Yeah.
>> Yeah. They Yeah. They donated
[1:31:31] » donated the engine which was a couple
hundred thousand.
[1:31:35] » Yeah. Well, our new engine was was all
but a million bucks for the new engine.
[1:31:40] But, you know, you look at like, who has
the biggest I don't say biggest benefit,
[1:31:44] but you know, they
>> Well, I can tell you I I don't know that
[1:31:49] I've ever been to a call at Carvana.
>> Yeah.
[1:31:52] » Ever,
>> right?
[1:31:53] » You know, even when it was paid, I I I
don't think I've ever been there on a
[1:31:56] call. It's typically a residence
>> or or an accident somewhere. Now,
[1:32:02] granted, ES3, we we're there quite
often. Now, they we bill them, though.
[1:32:07] We build them. Well, usually that's a
false alarm.
[1:32:10] » It is. It's typically a false alarm,
>> but they're build for that.
[1:32:13] » Yeah, but we're getting up at 2 o'clock
in the morning to go to a false alarm.
[1:32:15] » Absolutely.
>> And it's not it's not a lot.
[1:32:18] » No, it's not much. Do you remember how
much that is, Darl? That we
[1:32:22] » the highest amount we ever made.
>> Yeah, but per per call though.
[1:32:26] » Oh, it it they're allowed three and then
charge after
[1:32:30] » and then we charge and I want to Is it
250?
[1:32:34] » Is it
>> after that? It's 250 or 300 something.
[1:32:36] Yeah, they get three three per year and
then after that it's so much per per
[1:32:41] false alarm.
>> It would just go, you know, if the
[1:32:45] community knew that
>> places like that were supporting our
[1:32:49] fire department
>> and they do they like we'll get they
[1:32:52] they'll donate plets of water to us.
They they'll do that kind of stuff. Now
[1:32:56] granted, they're not donating a fire
truck, but
[1:33:00] » I say the marketing just because of all
the fundraising I've done for other
[1:33:03] organizations could really go a long way
towards community support,
[1:33:07] » right,
>> of having 500 trucks go past someone's
[1:33:11] house when they see that there's at
least some community investment. Yeah.
[1:33:14] » Towards that goodwill. Not saying we can
require it.
[1:33:17] » Yeah,
>> I know we can't, right?
[1:33:18] » But that community goodwill goes a long
way when the community knows it happens.
[1:33:23] Well, and I don't know how long ago it's
been um that this um
[1:33:29] » for warehouses that for sings went in,
but a lot of those were 100,000.
[1:33:35] » Uh no, I don't most of them were around
50. Like we had I know we had two one
[1:33:39] time and and that was that was 100,000
at one time, but we only have we only
[1:33:43] have like 200,000 in the truck fund. Uh,
now granted, some of that may have been
[1:33:48] used when we bought the new truck, but
now that that truck's not paid for that
[1:33:52] truck, we have a payment on that truck
every month.
[1:33:55] » When was the last time that the actual
like service fees have been reviewed and
[1:33:59] kind of comped out at the other fire
departments across the area?
[1:34:03] » Service fees for what?
>> Like when do you get those callout fees?
[1:34:06] What is, I don't know, handover township
charging when they get called out to the
[1:34:11] X factory?
>> Right. Right. Yeah. That that
[1:34:13] » When's the last time your fee structure
updated as well as something.
[1:34:17] » Well, and like I said, most of it's
>> the false calls is not where we're
[1:34:22] really headed with this is. I mean, it's
the call volume in general. U you know,
[1:34:26] at 459 calls last year, it's you know,
over a call a day. Now, granted,
[1:34:32] » we I've I've been on calls where we had
four calls in one day and then you don't
[1:34:35] have anything for a week. Uh and it
seemed to all always come in at like
[1:34:39] midnight or 2 o'clock,
>> of course. And on a Saturday.
[1:34:42] » Yeah. Yeah. When you But uh when you go
to different municipalities like Hanover
[1:34:47] or whatever, that's that's just a mutual
>> it's mutual aid.
[1:34:51] » Basic.
[laughter]
[1:34:54] » So I don't know if there's actually a
fee schedule involved in that. No.
[1:34:57] » No, no, no. She's talking about asking
the other count what they charge to go
[1:35:00] to a call like that. That is not
>> I think the bottom line [clears throat]
[1:35:03] is we need the truck.
>> Well, and Okay.
[1:35:06] » Talking about Yafer. I I just listened
to something that was online with them.
[1:35:10] They recorded a meeting that was with
some supervisors and whatnot and they
[1:35:14] there was a couple supervisors that were
upset I just just by listening to what I
[1:35:17] did there. They raised their fire budget
10% every year for the last five years.
[1:35:23] So that's 50% fire. They raised their
fire budget. Um and I know there's been
[1:35:28] a lot of concern with them. They only
have two people on each piece of
[1:35:32] equipment and they want three. That's
the state average is supposed to be
[1:35:36] three. So they're they're they're asking
for this increase in budget to try to
[1:35:41] get more manpower on each on each piece.
Now with us being volunteers,
[1:35:46] » there's times Daryl will go out by
himself. I go out by myself most of the
[1:35:49] time. Uh granted, when we get there,
we're hoping somebody else is there, you
[1:35:52] know, to help. Uh but uh but I I really
think I mean, is anyone opposed? I'll
[1:36:01] ask the public here. You guys are the
taxpayers. Would you be opposed to the
[1:36:05] township purchasing a
a $400,000 mini pumper?
[1:36:13] » What is in the township reserve and what
is the reserve for mentally?
[1:36:20] want to answer that for?
>> Well, we we have a pretty good reserve
[1:36:23] because we're really responsible in in
our spending and uh we have I'm not
[1:36:30] quite sure. It's a couple million
dollars that we do have in there. So,
[1:36:34] » well, and what what's the state the
state tells you to have?
[1:36:37] » You should have two years two years of
uh operating budget and what is ours?
[1:36:42] Three three million a year.
>> A little over three million a year. So,
[1:36:48] we really should have six, seven million
in the reserve and u
[1:36:53] » and I think that's where we're at.
>> Yeah. But, um I have a couple questions
[1:36:57] since you asked since you asked my
opinion.
[1:36:59] » I I do.
>> Okay. Uh one question is, um let me go
[1:37:05] back here and read this stuff. What's
wrong with the truck that it won't pass
[1:37:09] inspection? Is it something major or is
it does it need a new exhaust system?
[1:37:13] » No, no, no. It's it's the the whole back
of the bed is is is rusting out and it's
[1:37:19] it's where it's structural.
>> Okay.
[1:37:21] » I just don't want to see us put, you
know, $20,000 in a 30-y old truck is the
[1:37:26] reason.
>> Yep. I can see that. Um because
[1:37:29] sometimes the maintenance just
overwhelms it. It, you know, you just
[1:37:33] got to keep it, keep it, pour money into
it. Yeah.
[1:37:35] » So, yeah, I agree. Um would you get
money for this?
[1:37:39] » Yeah, we would. Yeah. And that would
that would go back into
[1:37:42] » Okay. And then if you also uh would sell
your white engine. Yep. You'd get money
[1:37:47] for that.
>> You don't get a lot. I mean, we'd be
[1:37:49] lucky to get probably $15,000 for
engine$39.
[1:37:53] » Maybe not even that. Yeah, we'd be lucky
to get that, you know. And that wouldn't
[1:37:56] even that wouldn't even buy the hose to
put on a new truck.
[1:37:59] » Okay.
>> That that stuff is outrageously priced.
[1:38:02] Even trucks are outrageously priced
right now. Everything is overpriced.
[1:38:06] » Okay. And uh one other comment. Okay.
And you might not like this. Excuse me.
[1:38:12] I got thick skin.
>> Ready?
[1:38:14] » Okay. I'm a leazison with Northern
Regional.
[1:38:18] » Yeah.
>> Every month I give a report on Northern
[1:38:20] Regional. Every month Northern
Regionals's here. Where's the fire
[1:38:24] company? Until they want their hand out.
>> No,
[1:38:27] » no. I'm saying other municipalities I go
to, they have the fire chief there and
[1:38:33] they give a report. I don't remember
ever seeing a fire chief here.
[1:38:37] » I don't even know who the fire chief is
right now.
[1:38:39] » That's okay. or US Leazi, you should
give it now. Right now,
[1:38:44] » I can give a report if you'd like it,
but
[1:38:46] » I think you should.
>> The problem is, okay, we have our we
[1:38:48] have our meeting tonight. It would be a
month late because because ours is too.
[1:38:53] » Our meeting Yeah. But our meeting is not
until next week,
[1:38:55] » right?
>> So, it Northern Regional isn't
[1:38:59] » isn't until the third week.
>> Okay.
[1:39:01] » So, we're always a month behind.
>> Okay.
[1:39:03] » So, I think you I'll get to you now.
Sorry. Yeah, I can I can give a monthly,
[1:39:07] » but I think like right now we had no
idea how many calls you had.
[1:39:12] » Yeah.
>> So,
[1:39:14] » if we knew how much you worked and you
know how many people responded to calls
[1:39:19] and everything, I think it would help us
a lot.
[1:39:21] » It would. Yeah.
>> Um, and what about grants? Are you that
[1:39:28] you're not getting grants? Are you not
writing them correctly? We we try every
[1:39:32] time there's a grant out like right now
we're we're applying for one in
[1:39:35] September here.
>> We have a structural issue with our
[1:39:37] station. So we're applying for a grant,
you know, for that.
[1:39:40] » But I'm thinking what if we would hire a
grant writer?
[1:39:44] » We have one that we hire.
>> Oh, yeah. We have one that we've had.
[1:39:47] » Okay.
>> Yeah. And he's he's been very good for
[1:39:49] us, too.
>> Is it good?
[1:39:50] » Yes.
>> Okay. Darl, you had a question. Well,
[1:39:53] I'd like to remind you that when I sat
on the board as the supervisor beside
[1:39:59] you, Loretta,
>> we were giving you quarterly fair
[1:40:03] reports.
>> Yes.
[1:40:05] » So, you have senior reports.
>> Oh, yeah.
[1:40:08] » All you need to do is ask.
>> Yeah.
[1:40:10] » You know,
>> okay. All right. I'm asking for reports.
[1:40:13] » I'll I'll make a [laughter] report. I'll
bore you with a report.
[1:40:18] And actually those reports were all
handwritten on a ledger by um by Mr.
[1:40:24] Hikes. He he did all this.
>> No, no, that was after it was after Ray.
[1:40:28] » Oh, was it?
>> I was on the board of supervisor after
[1:40:31] Ray retired.
>> And I think that's important to give us
[1:40:34] a little report on of what they do.
>> I can do that.
[1:40:36] » Now, as far as uh the money here, um I'm
not in favor of 100%.
[1:40:44] I would be in favor of the 300. What do
you guys say? And then, you know, if
[1:40:48] you're going to get money for the truck,
this truck, that truck, and uh you have
[1:40:52] 200 in there, I think you need to have a
little bit of skin in the game to say.
[1:41:00] » So, I think 300, you do what you want.
If you want this one or if you want the
[1:41:05] brush truck, whatever you want.
>> Well, I'm
[1:41:08] » What's your thoughts?
>> I'm afraid, okay, if we say, "All right,
[1:41:11] we're going to do the 300." Well, then
they're going to settle for a brush
[1:41:14] truck. And I'm just talking out loud
here as as as a engineer, but
[1:41:20] » they'll we they're saving that money for
an engine, not not a smaller piece.
[1:41:26] » But the thing is, when you do get a big
engine, you're going to come back to us.
[1:41:30] » Uh we did in the land. We didn't in
2023. We didn't
[1:41:33] » Yeah.
>> You know, we did that on our own in
[1:41:35] 2023. We did that on our own.
>> Did you get grants for that? Uh two well
[1:41:41] a lot of it% no interest loan% state
grant or state loan 2% state loan.
[1:41:47] » Yeah. Yeah. A low interest loan. Uh you
know I I I think with the volunteers
[1:41:54] that we have I think we have enough skin
in the game, you know, with putting our
[1:41:58] time in.
>> I I have here's where I I sit. I there's
[1:42:04] I have a lot of respect for first
responders and I've seen it all too
[1:42:09] happen where you know we we look at the
dollar amount and it's important that we
[1:42:15] do and there's a lot of things that you
know financially responsible we need to
[1:42:19] make sure but then you know if we step
over a dollar to to save a dime and uh
[1:42:26] you know it'll come back and bite us.
It's I I've seen it happen. Um and
[1:42:33] you know, these guys put their lives on
the line, you know, and they're out
[1:42:38] there uh all the time. I see them, you
know, and I think all of us see them.
[1:42:42] And I don't necessarily feel that, you
know, we're talking $80,000 that they
[1:42:48] it's a it's a a truck that we need for
the community and one of us could be our
[1:42:54] house could be saved or our or one of
our children or whatever and it you
[1:42:59] can't put a price on that. So, um for
me, I'm invoked uh to pay for the whole
[1:43:05] thing and that's
>> Are you going to make that motion? I'll
[1:43:08] make the motion to pay for the pumper at
$379,000.
[1:43:12] » And I suppose you're going to abstain.
>> I just I asked Steve that and he said I
[1:43:17] I don't have to because I'm the liaison
for the fire company and now I presented
[1:43:20] the case. Would you all like me to
abstain or
[1:43:23] » Well, we'll leave you abstain and I'll
second the motion.
[1:43:26] » Oh,
>> so all in favor [laughter]
[1:43:29] I'll save you the grief. I'll save you
the grief.
[1:43:33] » I think you're scared. I I I appreciate
that. And
[1:43:38] » how just out of curiosity, how are you
going to vote?
[1:43:41] » Well, I'm in favor. [laughter] It
doesn't benefit me. It it benefits the
[1:43:45] community.
>> Okay. All in favor say I.
[1:43:47] » I.
>> I. And one of.
[1:43:50] » All right. Thank you.
>> So, here's the thing. When that fire
[1:43:52] truck does pull in, I think you should
plan something with the community. Yep.
[1:43:57] » And bring it out because if you want the
community support, this is how you're
[1:44:00] going to
>> We do open house here. Well, you have
[1:44:02] fire week, too. Fire week at the school
when you get that truck.
[1:44:07] » I think I think so. Brian's going to
break a bottle of champagne across.
[1:44:12] [laughter]
>> I don't have to take it back.
[1:44:16] » And we are we are trying to come up with
ways to to try to motivate some of the
[1:44:21] community to get involved.
>> Well, I'm going tell you, I came down
[1:44:23] and got the application.
>> Yeah.
[1:44:25] » To fill out to come down to volunteer. I
went down. There were several of us. You
[1:44:30] were with me also, right?
I mean, I already have clearances
[1:44:34] through the Woo.
>> Yeah.
[1:44:35] » Okay. But yet, they were asking for
another one, and I get there are ways,
[1:44:39] but like,
>> well, we have to by law,
[1:44:41] » but my clearances should cover that. I
have five different clearances.
[1:44:45] » Yeah.
>> I mean, I'm through the federal whatever
[1:44:47] you can think of, but it's not a like I
>> But we need we need firefighters, too.
[1:44:53] » I'm not doing that for [laughter]
That's what we need. We need
[1:44:57] firefighters. saying like when you do
your chicken stuff, you know, I would
[1:45:03] not mind coming down to help out.
>> Yeah. And then they you can apply for
[1:45:08] » Yeah.
>> Yeah.
[1:45:09] » for social member.
>> Social member. Yeah. Social members do
[1:45:13] that.
>> Well, thank you. I want to thank you on
[1:45:15] behalf of the fire company.
>> Just bring two bottles of champagne. One
[1:45:18] to break on the bow and one for us.
[laughter]
[1:45:21] » Right, John?
>> Amen. Well, thank thank you.
[1:45:23] » He's gonna have nightmares for a little
while.
[1:45:24] » Yeah. Okay. uh property man uh
maintenance ordinance moving forward. Uh
[1:45:32] you had something.
>> Thank you. Um
[1:45:35] » Steve jumped in ahead and he and I
talked about this. Um we have we have
[1:45:40] ordinances that are very old and I just
kind of gave a summary of of just a few
[1:45:44] of the ones that we we look to on a
regular basis. Um ordinance 117
[1:45:49] accumulation of waste was adopted 1972.
um junk and junkyards was adopted in 72.
[1:45:55] Nuisance ordinance was adopted in '84
and we amended it in 97. And then the
[1:46:01] the grass and weeds ordinance was
adopted in 2008. And each one's a
[1:46:05] separate ordinance. Each one has
separate rules and regulations around
[1:46:09] it. And what we'd like to do, and I'm
coming to you guys just to get
[1:46:13] authorization for staff to move forward,
uh work with work with our attorney,
[1:46:18] work with our engineers needed to kind
of combine all these into a property
[1:46:23] maintenance ordinance. Um the IPMC, uh
the International Property Maintenance
[1:46:29] Code is out there. A lot of
municipalities use it. I don't think
[1:46:32] it's right for us. I think that that
that works well in a more urbanized or
[1:46:36] suburban
township, but I think there's stuff in
[1:46:40] there and there's stuff in our current
ordinances that we could utilize and
[1:46:44] massage, clean up,
>> um bring up into modern language, uh
[1:46:49] work with our attorney to make sure that
we're, you know, the enforcement piece
[1:46:52] is correct, the the how we apply is
correct, and [clears throat]
[1:46:56] develop one single ordinance that would
be able to pull all this stuff together.
[1:46:59] Um I think it's worth the time and
effort to do this. Um, okay. So, uh, one
[1:47:05] of the things I want to talk about is,
um, because we've had a lot of
[1:47:09] complaints lately with some of the the
junk that people are collecting.
[1:47:14] » So, one of the things I would ask, and
you know, I don't know if solicitor will
[1:47:19] agree, but definitely make stiffer fines
uh, within these uh, ordinances or I
[1:47:24] guess up to the max that the state will
allow. But then, can we also potentially
[1:47:29] condemn a property um, if they In other
words, they run the risk of the township
[1:47:35] or us going to the port system and
condemning their property and they lose
[1:47:39] their property because they're not able
to maintain.
[1:47:41] » But then where would it go? Would it be
ours? And we certainly don't want that.
[1:47:46] » So, well, I'm trying to I'm thinking of
something has teeth because right now
[1:47:50] right now,
>> you know, we we we go up people letters.
[1:47:53] It takes what? Forever to get anybody to
move anything. Okay. So, so a couple
[1:47:58] things like I don't think I mean we can
look at the the the fines but the fines
[1:48:03] aren't really our biggest issue because
most of them are structured so that
[1:48:09] every day is a continuing violation.
Yeah.
[1:48:11] » Right. Like so I mean if you're if
you've got junk in your yard
[1:48:16] for a month, you know, you're looking at
a $3,000 fine,
[1:48:19] » right? That's I mean it's not it's not
that there isn't teeth there. It's more
[1:48:24] sometimes the language of how we define
something where it's outdated or you
[1:48:29] have like gaps between some of our
ordinances where okay some things fit
[1:48:33] here and some things fit here but then
there's this kind of
[1:48:36] » space in between where we you know we
need different language or broader
[1:48:39] language or more specific language and
I'm just saying like you know enough
[1:48:43] things have changed
>> that's where it is now we can certainly
[1:48:46] look at the at the way we structure some
of the fines I don't think that's really
[1:48:50] the problem it's it's more the language
of it And in terms of like condemnation,
[1:48:56] you know, you can't just use
condemnation because somebody's got some
[1:48:58] junk. I mean, you know, there's there's
pretty clear definitions of what I mean,
[1:49:03] we could condemn somebody's property if
it's, you know, a hazard or it's, you
[1:49:09] know, structurally not sound, but you're
not going to use condemnation just
[1:49:12] because somebody's not complying with,
you know, an everyday ordinance. My
[1:49:16] point I'm making is that there's whether
it's that or something else that gets
[1:49:23] the person to sit up and be like, "Oh,
and pay attention."
[1:49:26] » Yeah. Like, "Hey, it's not just about
the money. I may I may not be able to
[1:49:30] live here anymore or something." You
know?
[1:49:32] » Let me let me tell you. I mean,
>> if you hit somebody with a 3,000 or
[1:49:37] 6,000 or $9,000
citation, you're going to get their
[1:49:42] attention. I mean, our our our fines are
are
[1:49:46] comparable to I mean I've solicitor for
a number of places and and you know we
[1:49:49] represent a number of counties I don't I
don't think our binds are out of line
[1:49:53] like if you if we want to enforce them
we can do that
[1:49:57] » but but it's more like when we appear
before the MDJ and then it has to be
[1:50:02] » is what we're citing for exactly what is
prohibited by an ordinance if the
[1:50:08] language isn't right and that's I think
where Mark and I have looked at this a
[1:50:12] number of times and thought okay you
know like some of the ones that he's
[1:50:15] he's talking about where there's these
cars. Okay. Well, what if somebody has,
[1:50:20] you know, only one car but then they
have this and then they have that or
[1:50:24] what if it's, you know, what if it's in
this condition and then it's like, okay,
[1:50:28] well, we didn't exactly prohibit that.
So, I think that's that's where we kind
[1:50:31] of want to take a look, use some of the
experiences that we've had over the
[1:50:35] years, look at what other townships have
done, look at whether, you know,
[1:50:38] municipalities have done, you know, and
and update some stuff. I think fines are
[1:50:43] fine, but if we could I mean if we could
also look at a punishment as well, maybe
[1:50:47] you know some type of I mean I I just I
just feel that some people just blow
[1:50:52] them off or or I if you know there's 30
days in prison or I don't know you're
[1:50:58] not you're not you're not getting that
for an ordinance violation. That's not
[1:51:04] how
>> a reprieve for 30 days. Okay.
[1:51:07] » Did you have a question?
>> Yeah. You're all in here talking about
[1:51:10] the old cars and this and that and the
other thing. I heard you all make a
[1:51:13] motion made
a thing a while back. You walk the road
[1:51:18] you don't walk ground.
I mean already the road all jacked up
[1:51:22] beautiful black top the runoff can't get
in the culvers. Back in the day, we had
[1:51:27] a record green. They have half the
problem. And you go up that road, I see
[1:51:32] a couple trees have moved since then,
but the better part of six trees on the
[1:51:35] wire and the wires are already hanging
down low enough.
[1:51:39] » We can't touch them.
>> I understand that,
[1:51:41] » but I just heard something about getting
Med or somebody coming.
[1:51:44] » Yeah, Mark, you were working with them
and you did get some of them down on
[1:51:48] » Med's pretty responsive, but Verizon,
the telephone company, no way. They
[1:51:52] won't come until it falls down. Like I
had a landline and I had to get rid of
[1:51:55] it because they're too lazy to take care
of this stuff. But you go around all the
[1:51:59] blinds and everything in them.
>> If they can't accommodate their wires,
[1:52:01] get them the heck out of here.
>> We can't. I wish we could. I hear you.
[1:52:05] » Um they they have a right to be here to
provide those utilities. The only way
[1:52:10] that that I've had success and we we've
seen it recently here is you contact the
[1:52:15] public utility commission and they're
the overseeing body of these utilities
[1:52:19] that have the authority to to manage
them. So that's that's a little outside
[1:52:23] the purview of what we're talking here,
but I
[1:52:26] » but we we do we go through the PUC and
we've gotten some some work done through
[1:52:30] them.
>> Can you contact them for what he's
[1:52:32] talking about?
>> Let me go back to is the
[1:52:34] telecommunications the lines that are
usually the ones that are med if if a
[1:52:40] tree comes down on the electric line,
they're usually there within hours. Um
[1:52:44] it's the telecommunication companies
that just are very slow coming into the
[1:52:48] community. That's so funny. You said he
never came back for my service, but yet
[1:52:52] I had to get rid of my land because they
told me they will not fix it,
[1:52:55] » right?
>> I mean,
[1:52:56] » we have no authority over them. That's
what I'm trying to tell you. That's
[1:52:58] that's the that's one of the areas that
we we can't I can I can jump up and down
[1:53:02] and scream all day at them. They they'll
just hang up the phone. The public
[1:53:06] utility commission is the board that
oversees them. They're the ones that
[1:53:09] have the authority to issue fines to
them and get them moving. So then when
[1:53:12] that big tree falls off that line that's
laying up there around right past 1955
[1:53:16] road falls out and kills somebody then
nobody nobody will have the
[1:53:20] responsibility.
>> No I I don't know if nobody has
[1:53:22] responsibility. I don't I represent the
township we don't have the ability to go
[1:53:26] after them.
>> Well let's let's let's take let's heed
[1:53:30] the warning. Right. You brought it to
our attention. We got we have to do
[1:53:33] something. We can either ignore it
>> trees that's laying there almost
[1:53:36] sticking out on the road.
>> Yeah.
[1:53:38] » We go up and we can trim to a certain
distance. That's as far as we go.
[1:53:40] » Just like right right around probably
the 1500 block. There's a mount of dirt
[1:53:45] that's been mil ever since they black
top road. It would be for the other day
[1:53:48] you went through the street for a
personal back. It would be out on the
[1:53:51] road yet.
>> Yeah.
[1:53:53] » You're all walking the street.
>> Yeah. Got it. We know where it is. All
[1:53:57] right. So, let's let's let's get a hold
of the public utilities.
[1:53:59] » And I think what uh Steve was talking
about uh was enforcement. And in
[1:54:04] previous administrations, a lot of that
wasn't enforced. But now you're going
[1:54:10] through a lot and sending a lot of
letters out.
[1:54:13] » Yeah, we are. And we're we're seeing
some response. We're getting we're
[1:54:16] talking to people and we approach it
from the the fact that we send them a
[1:54:20] letter saying, "Are you aware? This is
the law. This is what you have to do
[1:54:23] work with us." And if they don't work
with us, then we send out a notice of
[1:54:26] violation, which then is the legal tool
that we have to give them a set amount
[1:54:30] of time. If they fail to comply with the
notice of violation, then we issue a
[1:54:34] citation. And then citation like Steve
was saying has to then go before the
[1:54:38] medial district justice
>> and they have the full power and
[1:54:42] authority to decide at that point is it
have we met the conditions in our
[1:54:47] ordinances are they going to fight us on
it and two then what level of fine will
[1:54:51] be assessed up to the state max. So
that's that's the whole process. It's
[1:54:55] never quick. We can't say hey you know
you have junk cars in your in your
[1:55:00] property move them in three days. It it
takes months unfortunately. So, you
[1:55:04] brought up about getting a fire report.
Would it I think it would be really
[1:55:09] beneficial for the community to also get
that in the zoning report or wherever
[1:55:13] that fits that hey this month we've
issued 15 zoning violations or you know
[1:55:19] like a status because you know we hear
that things are happening but without
[1:55:23] that type of numbers it's hard to be
like okay great junk cars are still
[1:55:28] there or you know yeah
>> this this and that's still there. Not
[1:55:31] I'm not saying put everyone's business
out there.
[1:55:34] » So we
>> but at least just like numbers.
[1:55:36] » Good timing. I talked to to Becky about
that today and that'll be in the next
[1:55:39] month's report. We've already discussed
that.
[1:55:41] » Oh, okay. [clears throat]
>> Day late in the dollar store.
[1:55:44] » Oh no. [laughter]
>> No, it's a good point though and I
[1:55:47] » I agree and that's why we want to get
that in there so you guys can see that
[1:55:50] we you know sent out this many zoning
notices, this many notice violations,
[1:55:53] etc. That'll all be in next months.
We'll get that. If there's any reports
[1:55:56] or uh any information that you would
like on a regular basis, just let us
[1:56:00] know. If we can accommodate, we will,
you know, but we don't want to be
[1:56:03] overburdened, you know, but we'll send
it to the zoning and they can work on
[1:56:08] it.
>> Okay. Are you guys good? I don't need a
[1:56:12] motion or anything, but you guys good
that we move forward and get this stuff
[1:56:14] start getting these things cleaned up
>> to authorize you to do the property.
[1:56:18] » If you guys don't.
>> Okay. Um, other business, food truck
[1:56:24] Friday is uh this Friday, September the
4th
[1:56:29] » and u we'll still have one October yet.
Is that
[1:56:33] » the last one then? So next year you'll
see a lot of difference. Uh we are
[1:56:37] working on a memorial up there. I wish
we had the overhead of that.
[1:56:41] » Memorial.
>> No, not yet.
[1:56:42] » Okay.
>> It's a We'll surprise you next month
[1:56:46] with it's really it's really cool. Um,
I had one other thing and this is for
[1:56:54] Miss Ripto.
It's the story you told us last month
[1:56:58] about Zion View. Zans's View.
>> Oh, yeah. I I I did my research.
[1:57:05] » Did you find out why it says New
Cumberland?
[1:57:08] » Yes. I um So, here's what I've been
working on.
[1:57:11] » Okay.
>> So, I kind of like stirred the pot and
[1:57:14] started months ago. I have been working
with
[1:57:18] you did.
>> I've been working with a old resident of
[1:57:22] Shrintown who she's no longer here in
Shrintown. Um I have been researching
[1:57:28] what um has been said that there is a
cemetery at the end of a death there. I
[1:57:34] have the proof there is. I have been
working with Mark. We did discover in
[1:57:39] looking at old maps that to find Stri
you have to go under new Cumberland.
[1:57:45] So originally somewhere down the line
and I'm still working on it. Um
[1:57:50] Shrintown was New Cumberland. It was New
Pleasant Newland.
[1:57:53] » Okay. Well, what it says here is New
Cumberland 14. The 14 means that it's 14
[1:58:00] miles. This is a sign. It's 14 miles
from New Cumberland. And on the other
[1:58:06] one that says uh Strinstown, I forget
what number that was.
[1:58:12] There was another one out there, but
that says 12 miles.
[1:58:16] » Okay.
>> So, that has 12. So, I'll give you
[1:58:18] these.
>> Oh, cool. I I'm working on it. And John,
[1:58:22] I do have postits on my wall at benails.
>> No, no doubt. We don't We don't doubt
[1:58:27] that.
>> No, I've got the information that has
[1:58:30] been given to me. When I get it all
together, I will bring it in and present
[1:58:35] it to you. The information is actually
like it's really shocking.
[1:58:40] and I have been looking at maps.
>> Um the things that I have found out that
[1:58:44] they did to this cemetery is
unbelievable. And now I'm um I'm working
[1:58:50] on connecting them dots. I'm actually
going to the person's house.
[1:58:54] » Um she came out to me and we walked. She
told me all about Stringstown. We walked
[1:58:58] it. We wrote it.
>> You didn't have a shovel with you, did
[1:59:01] you?
>> We used my a shovel. [laughter]
[1:59:04] » Check out the grave.
>> No. Well, there is a spot back there
[1:59:08] that actually indentation that is the
size of about a grade. Um that
[1:59:15] » Carvana did a study though. Did you talk
to him?
[1:59:18] » I did talk to Corey. He left. Um Carvana
did attack talk to the Pennsylvania
[1:59:25] Historical Museum Commission and they
have no
[1:59:27] » thing over that ground. I'm not
>> Yeah, they have no records of it. So,
[1:59:30] » right, there are records.
>> Right. And that's that's what we and I
[1:59:34] talked to Brian about it. We've been
looking to see, you know, to see if
[1:59:37] there's any historical records. Now,
often depending on who's buried there,
[1:59:43] sometimes the records just don't exist.
>> I do have a record for a Civil War
[1:59:47] soldier in there.
>> And I was also told from a family member
[1:59:50] from Stories from his grandpa that it
was actually the Kanago Indians in there
[1:59:55] and the the road that you live on, that
family was also in there.
[2:00:00] » Okay. So I do I do have
>> actually I didn't want to but I do have
[2:00:07] » Yeah, there were a lot of Whitmers out
in Strange Town.
[2:00:09] » I do have written records about the
Civil War soldier
[2:00:14] » that was in there. The family was
approached and they said they were not
[2:00:17] interested. Um so it's just now I'm just
playing with numbers.
[2:00:23] » Um
>> Was it moved? Was it moved at some
[2:00:26] point?
>> No. So here's what I can tell you. The
[2:00:29] school was built in 1928.
The tombstones were moved off of the
[2:00:34] property and dump dumped into the Kobago
Creek right at the Boy Scout ramp,
[2:00:40] » the tombstones were dumped into the
river.
[2:00:42] » That's terrible.
>> And then they just went and built the
[2:00:45] house. So, um, from what I understand
from stories from my son-in-law, his
[2:00:51] greatgrandfather was one of the people
who demolished the school.
[2:00:55] Um, and he is one of them that found the
bones
[2:00:59] » to particularly I've been told that them
bones were picked up and transferred and
[2:01:03] re buried into Shrintown Cemetery
>> and an unmarked grave.
[2:01:09] » That's what I'm taking for granted is an
unmarked grave. Um, I have learned a lot
[2:01:15] about Mount Pleasant Church was actually
Mount Pleasant Union Church. It was also
[2:01:19] you it was used by several community
churches until They built the brethren
[2:01:26] church and then when they built the
brethren church they changed it from
[2:01:29] Mount Pleasant to that.
>> Yeah. Yeah. It was Mount Pleasant and
[2:01:33] then even where I live
>> where I live it was called Mount
[2:01:38] Washington. All all the older people
know as as Mount Washington. So I used
[2:01:42] to tell everybody I live at the top.
>> Your history will show that my
[2:01:45] grandfather
>> is he that
[2:01:48] » his name was Hall Baker. He was actually
the pastor at Strintown Church and Mount
[2:01:53] Washington Church at the same time.
>> That name didn't come as that came up
[2:01:58] » and somebody I will find it. Just give
me [laughter]
[2:02:01] » David Hall.
>> Okay. So, enough for our history lesson
[2:02:04] for tonight. So, does anybody have any
questions? Any more comments?
[2:02:09] » I have a question. I just want to rewind
a little bit and go back to Corona. I
[2:02:14] don't see that expansion being a good
fit in that area. Is the township hands
[2:02:18] tied on that matter as far as the
expansion?
[2:02:22] » Well, I think that as soon as we get u
the report from um about the road about
[2:02:28] the traffic,
>> I think that's what's holding everything
[2:02:32] right now.
>> I mean, it's a it's a permitted use.
[2:02:35] » So, I mean, this is the this is the
issue we're into with zoning is it's a
[2:02:40] » um you know, the zoning laws are are
what they are. We regulate uses. We
[2:02:44] regulate site coverage, building
setbacks, all of that. You know, all
[2:02:49] that stuff in the zoning ordinance. If a
project proposes a a structure or a use
[2:02:55] that fits the zoning ordinance, then
it's permitted to proceed as long as
[2:02:59] they meet all the other ordinance
requirements that we have in our storm
[2:03:02] water and subdivision land development
ordinance. And in this case, we have a
[2:03:05] standalone traffic ordinance as well.
So, like I I understand I understand
[2:03:11] nobody wants another use that's going to
generate more traffic that's going to
[2:03:15] cause more issues at exit 28. I totally
understand that. Um but since
[2:03:21] » we don't really have traffic issues on
that side of 83 there. They're all on
[2:03:24] this side.
>> Well, you don't see it lined up on that
[2:03:28] side.
>> It it all plays together. You you don't
[2:03:32] you don't. But the concern and this is
what we're we're going right now. We're
[2:03:36] fortunate that we don't have issues on
the east side of 83, right?
[2:03:39] » Um I think what we're analyzing here and
why this development is getting a lot
[2:03:44] more
>> uh of a closer look from PennDOT than a
[2:03:48] lot of the other ones, you know, there's
been multiple other developments that
[2:03:51] are built that access exit 28 from the
west side. At this point, you're just
[2:03:57] adding more to an existing problem. This
is a new impact um that could
[2:04:02] potentially provide more, you know, put
more traffic on the east side than ever
[2:04:06] before,
>> which will potentially change the
[2:04:09] lighting phases, but change the turning
movements, change the stacking, and that
[2:04:15] exacerbates everything else around.
>> So, you know, basically this is what
[2:04:21] real quick, let me finish. The what
we're looking at is there is an impact
[2:04:26] that will be created by the traffic. Can
the developer propose mitigations within
[2:04:31] our ordinance requirements and the
PennDOT ordinance requirements or the
[2:04:35] Pendot regulations that address the
standard concern of the traffic impact
[2:04:41] and that's where we're at right now. So,
um they need to come up with some
[2:04:46] options. PENDOT needs to sign off on
them and you know if PENDOT agrees to
[2:04:52] the proposed mitigation measures then I
I do think our hands are a little tight.
[2:04:56] we don't have a a good good reason to
say no, you can't go there because
[2:05:00] they've met all of our other ordinance
requirements.
[2:05:02] » Um, in some other developments, we have
leverage over uses that could be a a
[2:05:08] zoning variance. Um, you know, that's
the first step, uh, which is what you
[2:05:12] guys saw with that, uh, Proser
development that came through, the
[2:05:15] proposed housing development on
Copenhaver, that did not meet our
[2:05:18] ordinance, so we shut it down, um, and
the zoning board voted that down. So, we
[2:05:22] have some power for uses that don't fit
in the current zone. If the use is okay
[2:05:28] and they meet all the dimensional
requirements, then we just have to
[2:05:31] ensure that our other ordinances are,
you know, you're not no traffic impact,
[2:05:35] no storm water impact or impacts within
a reasonable manner, I should say. I
[2:05:41] won't say anything is no impact.
>> But that's basically how this how this
[2:05:45] works. So, um, if they were trying to
put this in a residential zone, then
[2:05:49] yeah, we'd have a lot more power over
it. But where it's at, it's tough. And
[2:05:52] especially with how large that parcel
is, it's a very big parcel. So,
[2:05:56] » okay, Marian, you had a
>> Y
[2:05:58] » for Posh, you said you wanted another
traffic study. Did they comply with
[2:06:03] that? Are they working on that?
>> Uh, it's only been a week, [laughter] so
[2:06:08] I I haven't heard any feedback from
>> Well, he seemed a little hesitant on
[2:06:13] that. That's why
>> he doesn't have a choice. So,
[2:06:15] » yeah. And he's been working on that for
years. So, a week is nothing for the
[2:06:19] years that he' been doing this. So,
>> no, we we've yeah, I have I have heard I
[2:06:25] was copied on email correspondence from
Mr. Pash to his traffic engineer asking
[2:06:29] the traffic engineer to reach out to me
and ask what I want. I have not spoken
[2:06:33] with the traffic engineer at this point.
Um, but I think I was pretty clear in my
[2:06:37] comment letter what I'll be looking for
as far as traffic counts on Coen Haven
[2:06:42] Road that are updated to meet today's
standards before we make any decisions.
[2:06:45] But I do want to prepare you all. They
could do the traffic counts and they
[2:06:50] could find that what that the
development that's going in does not
[2:06:55] pose a measurable impact to the
intersection. So just be prepared. Just
[2:07:00] because we're going through this doesn't
mean that it will require improvements.
[2:07:04] But I'm not comfortable at this point
feeling okay that it doesn't without
[2:07:09] working better numbers. We're too far
away from center here. Um, I want them
[2:07:13] to recalibrate their models, recount,
and then we'll start from here forward.
[2:07:17] » I just wanted to let you know that posh
might forget, but we won't.
[2:07:21] » Don't worry, it's an that's why it's in
my comment letter, and it's a condition
[2:07:24] of the again, we haven't even acted on
the plan to conditionally approve it,
[2:07:28] but it's an open comment on the letter
right now.
[2:07:31] » Yeah. Okay. And I did just look up what
our budget is, and it's uh 3.6 3.6 6
[2:07:38] million for uh the year for the year
2026.
[2:07:43] » So, and then with prices next year
probably be
[2:07:47] » 37
[clears throat]
[2:07:48] » at least. Yeah. Okay. Uh, anybody have
any more questions? Mark, you okay?
[2:07:54] » Good.
>> All right. Thank you everybody for
[2:07:56] coming. Meeting adjourned.
Jeremy, did I give you a chance to talk