[0:00] The following program was produced by
[0:02] CTV Community Television.
[0:04] >> All right, let's call this meeting to
[0:06] order. Uh, please stand for the pledge
[0:08] of allegiance.
[0:10] I
[0:10] >> pledge algiance to the flag of the
[0:13] United States of America and to the
[0:16] republic for which it stands, one nation
[0:19] under God, indivisible, with liberty and
[0:23] justice for all.
[0:26] >> All righty.
[0:28] Roll call. Tom Schwehoffer
[0:31] >> here.
[0:32] >> James Arlo
[0:33] >> here.
[0:35] >> Carol Pushard
[0:36] >> here.
[0:37] >> Ellen Jones
[0:38] >> here.
[0:40] >> Greg Bozelle
[0:41] >> here.
[0:42] >> Roger Beac is absent, excused. And Lance
[0:45] Certigon here.
[0:48] All right. Uh public hearing
[0:53] for the proposed ordinance amendment to
[0:56] 132.14.3
[1:01] accessory building ordinance building
[1:03] size.
[1:05] Uh this is the stuff I believe that uh
[1:08] we've been going through
[1:11] for this is for square footage. Correct
[1:14] Ash?
[1:14] >> That's correct.
[1:16] Okay, let's open the public hearing at
[1:22] 6:33.
[1:28] Is there anybody in the audience that
[1:30] would like to speak to this ordinance?
[1:52] I will make a motion that we will close
[1:54] the public hearing at 6:34.
[1:57] >> I'll second it.
[2:00] >> All in favor signify by saying I.
[2:03] >> I.
[2:04] >> Opposed. Okay. Motion carries.
[2:20] All right. Uh, agenda approval.
[2:24] Any additions or deletions at this
[2:26] point?
[2:40] I will entertain a motion.
[2:43] >> I'll make a motion that we accept the
[2:45] agenda as written.
[2:46] >> I'll second it.
[2:51] » Okay. All in fig all in favor signify by
[2:54] saying I.
[2:56] >> I
[2:57] >> opposed.
[3:03] All righty. Approval of the minutes from
[3:06] August 19th, 2026.
[3:10] Any additions or deletions?
[3:26] » All right. I will entertain a motion.
[3:32] I'll make the motion that the
[3:35] minutes are approved. Is written.
[3:38] >> I'll second.
[3:41] » Okay. Uh, all in favor signify by saying
[3:45] I.
[3:46] >> I.
[3:47] >> Opposed. Okay. Motion carries.
[3:53] Communications. We have none.
[3:56] Public comments on agenda items only.
[3:59] Any
[4:01] public comments?
[4:10] All right. Unfinished business.
[4:13] Um the site plan review for Cortis
[4:15] Brothers. We're still waiting to see if
[4:18] that I believe it went to planning up at
[4:21] the county, but we haven't heard
[4:22] anything back and Greg and Angela
[4:25] checked on it and we haven't heard
[4:27] anything at all. Supposedly, it was
[4:30] already approved up there, but we have
[4:31] nothing signed back from them. So, what
[4:36] we're looking to do at this point in
[4:38] time, um, I would entertain a motion for
[4:42] us to table this
[4:44] till hopefully next meeting and
[4:46] hopefully we can get it approved at that
[4:48] point in time. But that's where it
[4:51] stands with uh, Metro Planning at this
[4:54] point.
[4:55] I'll make a motion then it gets table
[4:58] next meeting.
[5:00] >> I'll sign.
[5:01] >> I'll second.
[5:02] >> Okay.
[5:05] >> All right. All in favor signify by
[5:07] saying I.
[5:09] >> I.
[5:10] >> Opposed.
[5:14] Motion carries.
[5:23] All right. Uh,
[5:26] accessory building
[5:29] ordinance,
[5:31] building size.
[5:33] Uh, Ashley is obviously going to say
[5:36] something here.
[5:37] >> I'm happy to just introduce us,
[5:39] especially as we have um a new trustee
[5:41] here, just to make sure everyone's on
[5:42] the the same page as to what we're what
[5:44] we're talking about. So, um, we just
[5:46] held a public hearing for an amendment
[5:47] to section 132 uh.1404,
[5:51] our accessory building ordinance. Um,
[5:53] the planning commission has been having
[5:55] some challenges um with the maximum size
[5:58] of accessory buildings. As it stands,
[6:01] that is um a a universal standard no
[6:04] matter the district, no matter the lot
[6:06] size. All accessory buildings are capped
[6:08] at 2600 square ft. And so this ended up
[6:12] uh leading to some cases where there
[6:14] were really large often industrial lots
[6:16] who felt um that that standard um didn't
[6:21] allow them to do business they as they
[6:22] would like. Um and in other cases on
[6:25] really small lots you would have you
[6:27] know oversized accessory buildings. And
[6:29] so um over the past few months we've
[6:31] been working um together to craft some
[6:35] regulations that are based on lot size.
[6:38] So, as the lot size increases, the
[6:40] allowable size of your accessory
[6:42] building also increases to be a bit more
[6:44] fair and just to um offer some visual
[6:47] cohesion across the the township. So, um
[6:51] if uh in your packets, you should see um
[6:54] a table on on
[6:58] I don't know what number it is in your
[6:59] packet, but page three um for that that
[7:02] memo. It'll be table 132.14.9.A.
[7:07] a accessory building ground floor area.
[7:10] So that's what's proposed. Um we've
[7:12] talked about it the last couple of
[7:13] meetings and um it seemed like we had a
[7:16] consensus here. We haven't heard uh any public comment in opposition of
[7:21] that. Um and so if um if there if we
[7:25] would want to if we want to discuss it
[7:27] more, I'm happy to to do so. Um but
[7:30] pending any other feedback, our
[7:32] recommendation is that um the planning
[7:34] commission go ahead to recommend this up
[7:36] to the St. Clair County Metrop
[7:38] Metropolitan Planning Commission uh to
[7:40] adopt this this update. Um so happy to talk through it more as as
[7:46] needed.
[7:47] >> Okay, that's it.
[7:50] 132.1404.9,
[7:53] right?
[7:54] >> That's the one.
[7:55] >> Okay.
[7:56] >> It should be all in.
[7:57] >> That's the very last one.
[7:59] >> Yeah, it should be all in red.
[8:00] >> Yep. Anything new is in is in red. Um,
[8:04] we're also proposing some language in
[8:06] there that just um
[8:09] uh clarifies that accessory buildings
[8:12] may not exceed the lot coverage maximum of the district. That was always
[8:17] the case. We're just adding language in
[8:19] there to make sure that it's very very
[8:20] clear.
[8:21] >> Yeah.
[8:21] >> So,
[8:22] >> and the big thing is that still has to
[8:24] come and meet all setbacks and
[8:26] everything else when it is put up.
[8:28] >> Exactly. So this maximum size permitted
[8:31] um will still be required to meet
[8:34] setbacks, lot coverage percentages, um
[8:37] any other um uh dimensional regulations
[8:41] on that lot. So um even those those
[8:44] square footages that you see in that
[8:45] table, it's unlikely that any of those
[8:47] accessory buildings would actually be
[8:49] built up to that size. This is just, you
[8:51] know, before taking into consideration
[8:53] those those other um regulations.
[8:57] We've had some issues on the riverfront
[8:59] area and stuff like that with the 2600
[9:02] square foot buildings.
[9:04] >> Yeah.
[9:04] >> I mean, there's been it it could be
[9:07] built, but the 2600 square foot, it's
[9:10] long and slender and it's like a wall up
[9:13] there and a lot of people don't on the
[9:16] riverfront or they don't like it because
[9:18] it's so huge and everything else.
[9:21] And here again, you you you fight which
[9:24] is the front yard and which is the rear
[9:26] yard on the riverfront.
[9:28] >> Yeah.
[9:28] >> I mean, some people say that they don't
[9:30] have a rear yard. They have two front
[9:31] yards, but that's not true.
[9:33] >> Yeah.
[9:33] >> It doesn't work that way.
[9:34] >> We can't get it straight in our own
[9:36] household. So, I don't expect
[9:38] >> with and with you living there, you know
[9:40] it firsthand at this point.
[9:42] >> We don't.
[9:42] >> And that's the reason why we went from
[9:44] the 2600 square foot to if it's less
[9:47] than one acre, it's 900 square foot.
[9:49] >> Okay.
[9:50] We kind of trimmed that back because the
[9:54] 2600 foot buildings are just they were
[9:57] out of control.
[9:58] >> Yeah.
[10:00] >> Can you can can you they go in front of
[10:02] the planning commission and try to get a
[10:03] variance?
[10:04] >> You go before ZBA in order to get a
[10:06] variance. But
[10:07] >> at this point in time, the big thing is
[10:10] was meeting setbacks with a big
[10:13] building,
[10:13] >> right? And what it ends up being, say
[10:16] you got a 70 foot lot, which I think a
[10:19] lot of those are
[10:20] >> on the river. Yeah.
[10:21] >> On the river, and you do, you know, 40
[10:25] ft by the time you meet a setback on the
[10:27] left and the setback,
[10:29] >> your driveway is damn near over on your
[10:30] neighbor's property,
[10:31] >> right?
[10:33] >> To actually be around it. So that's the
[10:35] reason why we kind of went back and and
[10:37] went through this
[10:39] >> and tried to come up with something that
[10:41] we thought was fair.
[10:44] and would work for all districts at this
[10:48] point. And the big thing is you still
[10:49] have to meet setbacks. So, it still has
[10:51] to to do everything it's supposed to and
[10:54] then some.
[10:55] >> The ones that are on the river or the
[10:57] big the big how long have they been
[10:59] there? Is it been I mean, they're
[11:01] obviously grandfathered in, but is it
[11:02] two, three years or
[11:03] >> No, there's some that's only been there
[11:05] two, three years. Someone fairly new.
[11:07] >> That's what I thought. So, this is just
[11:10] we we never fought it before. We just
[11:12] never really had any guidelines or
[11:14] >> Well, the way this first come about, we
[11:17] were addressing
[11:19] pieces of property out here,
[11:22] >> right? And we never actually thought
[11:24] about
[11:25] >> the river riverfront district until I
[11:28] think it was Steve Tusenowski was one
[11:31] that come in and there was a couple
[11:34] other people from the riverfront that
[11:35] come in and were questioning
[11:38] about the square footage and everything
[11:39] else and why are they so big and they
[11:42] exceed the some of them exceed the the
[11:45] size of the original the dwelling.
[11:47] >> Yeah. The house. Yeah. So, and that's
[11:49] the reason why we brought this all back.
[11:52] Kind of went through all the surrounding
[11:54] communities with East China, China, Ira
[11:56] Township, and everything else to try to
[11:58] make things comparable to a point where
[12:02] we would,
[12:03] >> you know, be fair but still be
[12:05] >> right.
[12:06] >> So,
[12:06] >> yeah. Yeah, we looked at um the to to
[12:09] Lance's point um the accessory building
[12:12] ordinances of the townships surrounding
[12:14] Kotchville and almost every single one
[12:17] uses a similar structure.
[12:18] >> I looked Yeah, I think
[12:20] >> right. So,
[12:21] >> in fact, if you look when you get above
[12:24] I believe it's the 10 acre parcel, a lot
[12:27] of them cut it off at 3600 square ft. M
[12:29] >> we figure as long as you're able to meet
[12:31] setbacks and everything else, that's why
[12:33] we broke it up between 10 and 15 and
[12:35] then 15 acres or more,
[12:37] >> right?
[12:38] >> So
[12:38] >> yeah, if you've got 10 acres, a 6,000
[12:41] foot pole barn is not
[12:42] >> crazy.
[12:43] >> No. And as long as you're meeting
[12:44] setbacks.
[12:45] >> Yeah,
[12:46] >> there should be no issues with it.
[12:50] So, if we're happy with with where this
[12:53] at this time, as I said, our
[12:55] recommendation is that um the um
[12:58] commission makes a motion to recommend
[13:00] this uh amendment to the St. Clair
[13:02] County Metro Planning Commission and the
[13:04] Township Board um for approval.
[13:07] >> Does
[13:09] at 25% now, does that come into play on
[13:11] this particular thing, too?
[13:13] >> Um it does. Totally. So, for some for
[13:15] some context, um we've been kind of
[13:17] doing a deep dive on our accessory
[13:19] building ordinance and just
[13:20] understanding how accessory buildings
[13:22] come up in different districts. Um and a
[13:24] couple cases have come before us uh in
[13:27] the industrial district. Um and we
[13:30] realized that the industrial district
[13:32] didn't have any lot coverage maximum.
[13:34] And so if you're trying to um regulate
[13:37] the sizes of accessory buildings, you
[13:39] need a lot coverage maximum to say,
[13:41] "Hey, here's where things get cut off."
[13:43] Um and so prior to doing this ordinance
[13:46] amendment, we uh sent to the St. Clair
[13:49] County uh planning commission um an
[13:51] amendment to establish a 25% lot
[13:54] coverage in the industrial district. And
[13:56] that's just your principal buildings and
[13:58] your accessory buildings. So you can
[14:00] imagine on, you know, a 20 acre
[14:03] property, you still have a ton of square
[14:04] footage to work with for um both your
[14:07] principal buildings and your accessory
[14:08] buildings, but making sure that there
[14:10] was lot coverage helps this ordinance
[14:13] around make sense. Um and so it it will
[14:16] come into play when we have um
[14:19] applicants come in in the industrial
[14:20] district,
[14:21] >> right? That that hasn't been approved
[14:22] yet, though. We're still waiting to hear
[14:23] that.
[14:24] >> That's the one we're waiting for.
[14:27] Yeah. So, it's on its way, but the
[14:29] sequence that we did it was was um I
[14:31] think wise in making sure we had those
[14:33] other regulations in place and then the
[14:35] accessory building uh ordinances can can
[14:38] be reflective of that.
[14:39] >> Okay.
[14:40] >> Yeah.
[14:41] >> Thank you.
[14:43] >> All right. Anything else for Ashley? Any
[14:46] other questions?
[14:52] All right. Um I will make a motion that
[14:56] we take
[14:57] uh the accessory building size section
[15:01] 1321404.3
[15:04] and submit this to metro planning for
[15:08] approval up at the county level.
[15:11] >> I'll second.
[15:16] » All right. All in favor signify by
[15:18] saying I. I
[15:21] >> opposed. Okay. Motion carries.
[15:29] All right. Draft master plan review.
[15:34] » Okay. Um, so our draft master plan is
[15:37] nearing final adoption stages. Uh for
[15:40] context for folks who are new in the
[15:41] room since June 2025 um the township has
[15:44] been working with our team at McKenna to
[15:46] update the community's master plan which
[15:48] uh just sets the next 10 to 20 year
[15:51] strategy for land use, infrastructure,
[15:54] housing, transportation, um economic
[15:57] development. Um and we uh this master
[16:00] plan was informed by both quantitative
[16:02] and qualitative data. We had a community
[16:04] survey. We had a popup event at last
[16:06] year's hood hoods [cough] tunes and
[16:08] [clears throat] bruise. Um, we've
[16:09] discussed the master plan at eight at
[16:12] least eight public meetings. Um, and we
[16:14] had a 63-day public comment period where
[16:17] the master plan was available here at
[16:19] Township Hall and also available
[16:20] publicly um where folks could read the
[16:23] draft and offer some comments. Um, so
[16:26] during that 63-day comment period, um,
[16:29] in addition to receiving comments from
[16:31] staff and from the planning commission,
[16:33] uh, a total of five comments were
[16:35] received through the public comment
[16:37] portal. Um, and so, uh, myself and, uh,
[16:41] the township supervisor and your chair,
[16:43] we sat down to review all of the
[16:45] comments, um, and to make decisions on
[16:48] how to best incorporate those comments
[16:49] into the draft. Um, in your packet,
[16:51] you'll have what kind of looks like a
[16:53] table, and that lists out every single
[16:55] comment that we received, whether it
[16:57] came from planning commissioners or from
[16:59] community members, and how that comment
[17:02] was addressed in the final plan with
[17:05] page numbers if uh if necessary. Um,
[17:10] so we feel as though with these edits,
[17:12] the master plan is in a really good
[17:14] place. We find it to be reflective of
[17:16] everything that we've heard from the
[17:18] community, you know, championing
[17:22] uh rural character, uh thinking wisely
[17:25] about our land use and uh trying to uh
[17:29] continue to make Kraville a great place
[17:30] to to raise a family and to uh grow old.
[17:34] And so um we're happy with where it's
[17:37] at, but would love to hear um any
[17:39] feedback from you all. The next step
[17:42] would be to set a public hearing on the
[17:44] draft master plan um which we hope will
[17:46] be at the next uh planning commission
[17:48] meeting.
[17:57] I did call Ashley today and ask about
[18:02] uh data centers
[18:04] because there was a
[18:07] meeting at the county level yesterday
[18:10] that they are starting to review
[18:14] about data centers and everything else
[18:16] and how we are going to in turn
[18:22] how do I want to say guide those along I
[18:25] guess is the way to put it
[18:26] >> because there's something that Ashley's
[18:28] going to probably start working on a
[18:31] ordinance with Greg on the data centers
[18:34] and stuff like that. I believe he had
[18:37] started something and we're going to
[18:39] probably critique that a little bit and
[18:42] see what we're going to do. Um, the big
[18:46] thing they're worried about is noise,
[18:49] light, the amount of energy that they
[18:52] actually do use,
[18:54] and water.
[18:57] >> Water normally is recycled unless they
[19:00] have open outside cooling. If they have
[19:04] open outside cooling, a lot of it
[19:05] evaporates.
[19:07] Um, unless like where they're talking on
[19:12] putting one possibly is at the old DTE
[19:15] plant up in uh Mary'sville.
[19:18] >> Yeah.
[19:19] >> And that at that point in time they
[19:22] could probably do the same thing that
[19:25] DTE did for ever with cooling
[19:29] properties. They would take river water
[19:31] in and then they would cool everything
[19:34] and they would in turn release the
[19:36] warmer water back to the river. Well,
[19:40] supposedly there were some questions
[19:42] raised last night at the meeting that
[19:45] there's problems with the ecosystem and
[19:47] everything else. That plant's been there
[19:49] for how many years?
[19:50] >> Yeah,
[19:52] >> I don't think there's been any issues
[19:54] downstream that I know of. Um I I do
[19:58] agree that they do warm the water up,
[20:01] but I mean the water mixes. There seems
[20:06] to be no issue that way. Mhm.
[20:08] >> It's not polluted in any way. It's just
[20:10] a temperature change.
[20:12] >> The only other way they could do it is
[20:14] be a closed loop
[20:16] >> and either bury a closed loop
[20:18] underground and use that for cooling
[20:20] that way.
[20:22] >> But here again, we have nothing right
[20:24] now on the books, especially with us at
[20:27] this point. and they're still going to
[20:28] have to make and meet all of our
[20:32] setbacks and our ordinances and
[20:34] everything else at that point in time
[20:36] for right
[20:37] >> if they you know if there's a parcel big
[20:39] enough but for the size of parcel they
[20:42] would need you're talking probably
[20:46] 120 acres maybe more for uh a so many
[20:50] gigawatt style uh data center at that
[20:55] point
[20:55] >> how big is the physical building I
[20:57] thought it is only like 40,000 square
[20:59] ft.
[21:00] >> Well, it all matters how how many
[21:02] gigawatt the the data center is.
[21:05] >> Then you have to look into um
[21:10] uh auxiliary power is the other thing,
[21:13] >> right?
[21:14] >> And
[21:16] it's just
[21:17] >> cooling all that, you know, that's
[21:18] >> all that all that building. There
[21:20] there's a lot to it actually.
[21:21] >> See, there's such a high demand for
[21:24] these data centers that people are going
[21:26] to get creative. I thought why not put
[21:27] the whole thing underground.
[21:29] >> It keeps with the noise. I mean, if
[21:31] there if they're that much in demand,
[21:34] >> but they're really not. It's being it's
[21:36] if it's the whole thing is being
[21:38] inflated.
[21:39] >> Well, the big
[21:40] >> because
[21:41] >> the big thing is
[21:42] >> people there isn't a demand for it.
[21:44] >> And that's the problem. I mean, there is
[21:46] to a point, but it's not like I guess
[21:48] >> you and I ain't going to use it to go
[21:49] Christmas shopping like they thought
[21:51] everybody was going to.
[21:52] >> Well, there is a demand for it, but the
[21:54] big thing is do here again
[21:58] >> and then I don't want to get into the
[21:59] political part of this but the issue is
[22:02] >> do you want the United States to lead or
[22:06] do you want China to lead? Do you want
[22:09] this country to lead?
[22:10] >> That's that's where I'm at. And
[22:12] >> guys, I use AI all day every day.
[22:14] >> And as of right now,
[22:15] >> I'm 64 years old. It's not that hard to
[22:17] use. You know, if you can talk, you can
[22:19] use it.
[22:19] >> Yeah. But the the United States is right
[22:22] now leading in the data centers. We have
[22:26] over 5,400
[22:28] some odd data centers as compared to I
[22:31] believe the highest other one is China
[22:32] with about 440 of them.
[22:34] >> Okay.
[22:35] >> So the US is still leading but it this
[22:39] is something that's going to be up and
[22:40] coming and that's the only reason why
[22:42] and if we don't have it in the master
[22:45] plan correctly and everything else it
[22:47] can come back to bite us at that point.
[22:49] I thought when I talked to Greg about,
[22:51] you know, the area that people were
[22:53] looking at, I thought he had them pretty
[22:54] well boxed out by all of the different
[22:57] parameters that he had set for.
[22:58] >> The biggest thing is with data centers
[23:00] here in our township, it has to be on
[23:03] industrial property,
[23:05] >> right? And in in your master plan, we
[23:08] have language that um again, you can't
[23:11] ban any use outright. Um but we have
[23:15] language that establishes your land use
[23:17] priorities. um establishes that you know
[23:19] you're seeking out light industrial uses
[23:23] um that you're trying to maintain the
[23:24] rural character here. So as much as
[23:27] possible and and and we also have
[23:28] language around you know solar and wind
[23:30] energy and and battery storage uh and
[23:33] cell towers as well. So as much as we
[23:36] can align uh the community's intentions
[23:38] with the language in here, we we've done
[23:40] that. Um, and then the next step would
[23:42] be making sure that your zoning
[23:43] ordinance had uh policies to um back
[23:47] that up. Um, and so typically how it
[23:50] works is that, you know, you you um
[23:52] adopt a master plan and then you take a
[23:54] look at your zoning ordinance and make
[23:55] sure that your regulations match the
[23:57] plan. Um, and so we're doing step one
[24:00] here with uh making sure the language is
[24:02] in place and then next step would be
[24:04] your zoning ordinance.
[24:05] So did we was there more language added
[24:08] to the sheet with you know that we were
[24:10] talking about last month you know for
[24:12] the data it was kind of vague I thought
[24:14] >> but did you update this what we had
[24:15] here? So, we've added language uh it's
[24:19] to page 122
[24:22] um in your master plan. Uh we've added a
[24:24] section around battery battery energy
[24:26] storage systems um and uh refine the
[24:30] language around data centers as well.
[24:33] Um,
[24:36] again, you can't you can't outright,
[24:39] you know, ban a use. As much as we can
[24:43] communicate your priorities here, we've done that.
[24:46] >> So, that's what I I guess my question
[24:48] just from this original draft, it's been
[24:51] >> kind of tweaked some.
[24:52] >> It's been critiqued. The big thing I was
[24:55] when I was I talked to Ashley today,
[24:57] >> the next thing we have to do now is we
[25:00] have to work on the ordinance aspect of
[25:01] this.
[25:02] >> Okay.
[25:03] I mean, we're we're covered with our
[25:05] master plan at this point in time, which
[25:07] of course the master plan is what a
[25:09] guide. Yep.
[25:10] >> So, at that point in time, once we get
[25:13] to the point where we get the master
[25:15] plans done and everything else, we can
[25:17] go from there and then we need to work
[25:19] on our ordinance for that aspect.
[25:25] » All right.
[25:26] Any other questions or
[25:27] concerns?
[25:31] Uh I know last month there was we had
[25:34] quite a bit of discussion about this new
[25:36] map they had here.
[25:37] >> The future land use map.
[25:38] >> Yeah.
[25:39] That a future land use compared to
[25:42] what the old one was.
[25:43] >> Yep. So that is um
[25:46] >> I think that was page
[25:47] >> 106
[25:49] >> 107 the one I got here. If I'm on the
[25:51] right one.
[25:52] >> Yeah, you're right. You're right.
[25:53] >> Yeah.
[25:53] >> Um and so we have made some edits to
[25:57] that chapter. The first is just to add
[25:59] some more educational information around
[26:01] what a future land use map is and the
[26:03] difference between a zoning map and a
[26:05] future land use map. Again, you know, a
[26:07] future land use map guides future
[26:09] development, but your zoning ordinance
[26:10] or the regulations and the districts of
[26:12] today. Um we have added a table that
[26:16] compares uh you know master plans and
[26:19] future land use plans and zoning
[26:20] ordinances and zoning maps. Um we have
[26:24] uh amended the future land use map. Um
[26:29] a new map is on page 107. Uh there were
[26:32] some areas where medium density
[26:35] residential was proposed and I believe
[26:37] we've brought that back down to low
[26:39] density residential. Um,
[26:42] and I believe there were a couple other
[26:44] like parcel level changes down uh near
[26:48] uh
[26:50] >> Well, that's what we wonder about along
[26:51] that drudge cut there, but I don't know
[26:53] if there's any flood planes involved. I
[26:54] mean, on this map, it doesn't show any
[26:56] of that here, but
[26:57] >> yeah, we have a flood plane map in the master plan. Um,
[27:02] that of course would have to be
[27:04] consulted with any new development.
[27:07] Okay,
[27:08] we do it again. [laughter]
[27:14] All right, any other questions?
[27:20] All right. I will make a motion to
[27:22] direct the planner to work with the Clay
[27:24] Township Clerk or the Carterville
[27:26] Township Clerk and set a public hearing
[27:29] on the draft master plan for adoption to
[27:31] be held at the next meeting uh regularly
[27:35] scheduled meeting of the planning
[27:36] commission.
[27:38] >> I'll support it.
[27:40] >> Okay. With motion and support.
[27:44] Uh all in favor signify by saying I. I
[27:48] >> I
[27:49] >> opposed.
[27:51] >> Okay, motion carries.
[27:53] >> Great. And just so um we're all on the
[27:55] same page. So, we'll host a public
[27:56] hearing um at our next meeting on the
[27:58] draft master plan. We'll take, you know,
[28:00] additional public comments. Um and then
[28:02] at that point, we can discuss if we're
[28:04] ready to recommend the master plan on to
[28:06] the township board for adoption.
[28:08] Correct. Um after the public hearing, we
[28:10] can still make some additional changes.
[28:12] So, you know, if you even spend some
[28:13] more time with it or we hear some
[28:15] comments from the public, um, even we
[28:18] can recommend to the township board on
[28:19] the condition of some changes, too. So,
[28:21] there's still time to make some
[28:22] amendments if you see them.
[28:24] >> Okay. Thank you.
[28:25] >> Y,
[28:32] next item on the agenda
[28:35] is a slight plan review for 7347 Marine
[28:40] City Highway.
[28:42] Um,
[28:48] Mr. Elmosaw is here uh in regards to the
[28:52] parcel and what he's looking to do. He
[28:57] actually has a piece of property that
[28:59] they are working on down river from us
[29:03] and he's looking for just what a couple
[29:06] months you were saying about six months.
[29:08] >> I said month and worst case you know six
[29:12] months I hope
[29:13] >> okay
[29:14] >> it shouldn't take that long but just in
[29:15] case if we run into some obstacles
[29:18] >> no I totally understand
[29:20] um I did go walk the parcel today and uh
[29:25] there is no issues that I can see over
[29:27] there it is a heavily treated area
[29:31] around the parcel
[29:34] you can barely see what's back there I
[29:36] mean it's all fully
[29:39] >> you know there is really no issues
[29:41] there. Uh the only issue I could see is
[29:47] um if there was a fire back there, it'd
[29:50] be the only issue being the gate is
[29:52] locked. I was just kind of wondering and
[29:56] if it's only for six months, I guess we
[29:58] probably should be fine. I was just
[30:00] wondering if a key could be given to the
[30:02] fire department if it's longer than six
[30:04] months.
[30:04] >> No problem. We always left that gate
[30:06] open till we find out someone come d
[30:10] Yeah, I did see the pile of shingles
[30:13] that was back there, too. Yes.
[30:19] » Never fails.
[30:20] >> It just never fails.
[30:24] » Um, do you guys have any questions for
[30:27] the gentlemen?
[30:29] I just see a clerical error on the
[30:33] property information. It's addressed as
[30:36] Marine 7347 Marine City Highway, East
[30:39] China.
[30:40] >> Oh, yeah.
[30:43] >> Um,
[30:45] other than that, if there's
[30:48] you're not storing anything in the
[30:50] trailers?
[30:51] >> No, they're empty.
[30:53] >> Some of them got some old used
[30:58] and pallets and shel and stuff. But now
[31:02] with this, I informed the gentleman
[31:06] and explain to him, gave me a copy of
[31:09] our new building.
[31:10] >> He did give us a copy of the new lease
[31:12] for his new property.
[31:14] >> Okay.
[31:14] >> So, all the stuff that's being stored
[31:17] there will be moved when he's ready for
[31:20] it down
[31:21] >> to his place.
[31:24] sitting there money on the ground
[31:27] >> and we need these traders so we can
[31:29] empty them, go through them, take what
[31:32] we need to order to new place. We got
[31:33] 42,000 square ft and there's some rules
[31:37] and things
[31:39] put it back on the road. Some of them
[31:42] worthy
[31:43] >> and anything we don't need, we're going
[31:45] to sell it. Anything old or cannot be
[31:48] sold, go to the scrubard and buy will be
[31:52] empty because we move it to Southfield.
[31:55] We are way out of the way. That's about
[31:57] 90 minutes away and we have no business
[32:00] here. We don't conduct any business in
[32:03] this city. All our business down south.
[32:08] >> Okay.
[32:09] >> He was originally he was originally from
[32:12] Warren and they're moving down river a
[32:14] little bit further. How did you end up
[32:16] here?
[32:18] >> How did you end up in Katraville?
[32:20] >> Oh, that's Mr. Co. [laughter]
[32:24] >> Okay,
[32:25] >> so mess me up.
[32:27] >> Change all the plan. Everything I had
[32:29] planned for has collapsed. So, it's been
[32:33] very very rough three years, last three
[32:36] years.
[32:37] >> But, uh, we'll we'll fight back and uh,
[32:41] finally, I see the light at the end of
[32:43] the tunnel.
[32:45] We're going moving back and we own
[32:48] property down by the airport
[32:51] 43 acres and if it's co did not hit we
[32:56] won't be sitting here talking about
[32:57] today
[32:59] >> but I'll get it going again.
[33:01] >> Well, I hope your luck changes.
[33:03] >> Thank you so much.
[33:05] So at the end of let's say whatever time
[33:08] period it is six months or something and
[33:10] then
[33:11] >> everything that's will be removed from
[33:13] the property then just basically vacant
[33:16] land again.
[33:16] >> The grass can eat it alive. Okay.
[33:18] >> Yeah.
[33:19] >> And it's useless either if I leave it
[33:22] here I don't need it. If I don't need it
[33:24] why sitting here just
[33:29] >> No, I I understand. I agree with you.
[33:31] don't have any motivation to leave
[33:33] it here, but after 6 months, do we have
[33:35] any recourse if we if he doesn't move it
[33:38] or do we even care
[33:39] >> if they're not toxic storage? I don't
[33:42] know.
[33:42] >> The big thing is here is we are if we
[33:46] grant the land use application,
[33:49] >> right?
[33:50] >> The land use application doesn't run
[33:52] out. He's just saying that it'll he'll
[33:55] probably use
[33:57] it up to six months is what he's saying.
[33:59] >> Yep. And then when he leaves the
[34:01] property, you are going to clean the
[34:02] property up. Correct.
[34:04] >> If we if we don't have that meeting
[34:06] today, regardless,
[34:08] I'm moving these triggers any because
[34:11] it's not doing me any good. We are
[34:13] moving down that.
[34:14] >> Right. But all we're doing at this point
[34:16] in time is bringing you into compliance
[34:18] with the way it is right now.
[34:20] >> Yeah. We're focused on the use, not the
[34:21] timing of the use.
[34:22] >> Correct. Right.
[34:23] >> Correct.
[34:24] >> All right. Again,
[34:27] I'm brand new, so I'm asking a lot of
[34:28] questions that maybe I shouldn't be, but
[34:30] >> No, that's that's No, that's that's a
[34:32] fair question. If we were treating it as
[34:33] >> That's what it's about.
[34:34] >> Yeah.
[34:34] No, that's that's fair. If
[34:36] >> like I say, when I when I went out and
[34:38] walked the property, there's a couple
[34:40] there's a tractor, there's a dozer,
[34:42] there's a boat, there's a truck, there's
[34:44] a fuel tank, which is a doublewalled
[34:46] fuel tank. I did look at that. Um, and
[34:50] >> someone pick up a truck. We use it in
[34:52] the yard to fill up the
[34:55] >> Mhm.
[34:56] >> And it's old. We don't need it anymore,
[34:58] but we got to move it out of there. Then
[35:00] the dozer, we left it there because the
[35:03] winter needed to clear
[35:05] >> clear the snow.
[35:06] >> Yeah.
[35:07] >> And then, like I said, then they've got
[35:08] there's probably
[35:11] 10 to 15 tractors for semi-tractors that
[35:15] are there that are in some are in
[35:18] disarray, some are complete. Um, and
[35:22] then there's just trailers pretty much
[35:26] >> that are there now.
[35:27] >> That are there.
[35:28] >> Yeah, correct.
[35:29] >> I think I know exactly what you're
[35:30] talking about.
[35:31] >> I mean, there's every bit of
[35:33] >> Well, if there ain't 100 trailers there,
[35:35] I don't know if there's
[35:35] >> Oh, really?
[35:36] >> Uh, yeah, maybe the amount increased
[35:40] lately because our base is expired.
[35:43] >> Yeah,
[35:44] >> there's there's a lot of them there. I
[35:46] will say that.
[35:48] >> So, we have to like I said, Right.
[35:52] >> So, finally I signed the new lease for
[35:53] the new building.
[35:55] >> Mhm. Okay.
[35:59] >> All right. Uh
[36:01] >> there is um like no bond that's posted
[36:04] for anything like that. The reason I'm
[36:07] asking is many years ago I know somebody
[36:09] they had 40 acres. There was an old
[36:11] house. They wanted to build the new
[36:12] house. They had a post a bond that they
[36:15] didn't get that money back until they
[36:16] tore the first old house down when the
[36:19] new one was completed
[36:20] >> because there's no development
[36:22] happening. I don't think you can require
[36:24] anything like that.
[36:25] >> Yeah.
[36:26] >> Um but it's it's it's a fair point
[36:29] >> and really a bond on our aspect wouldn't
[36:31] be wouldn't be us anyway. That would
[36:34] come out of I believe building and
[36:36] zoning.
[36:37] >> Correct.
[36:38] >> Right. That would happen at the building
[36:39] department. [music] Um,
[36:41] >> but yeah, for for us, you know, the
[36:44] site's largely in compliance with the
[36:46] industrial district standards. That
[36:48] screening piece was the only outstanding
[36:50] piece that the planning commission needs
[36:51] to decide. And um, Lance has stated that
[36:53] there's plenty of tree coverage. We're
[36:55] not abuing any residential properties.
[36:57] So,
[36:57] >> I mean, I think what we we show as being
[37:01] compliant was an 8 foot fence, I do
[37:03] believe. Correct.
[37:04] >> Um, right. And at this the trees are
[37:08] >> the tree line is probably
[37:10] >> 30 40 feet all the way around the
[37:12] parcel.
[37:13] >> You know there's
[37:14] >> the driveway alone it's like you cannot
[37:17] even see it.
[37:17] >> No the driveway the driveway to the
[37:20] gates got to be probably 250 300 feet
[37:23] off the road. So
[37:24] >> like I say and if unless you're looking
[37:27] directly down the driveway
[37:29] >> you don't even know you don't even know
[37:30] it's there. I miss when I come to the
[37:32] yard sometimes once a while I always
[37:35] miss it.
[37:35] >> Pass it up.
[37:42] » So yeah. So at this point you'd be um
[37:45] considering approving the plan on the
[37:46] condition that a key be given to the the
[37:48] fire department.
[37:49] >> The only thing that I mean just just
[37:51] >> Yeah. I think we're smart just in case.
[37:53] there's a fire of some sort
[37:55] back there. And then at the point in
[37:57] time once the property's vacated, if the
[38:00] owner of the property wants the key
[38:02] back, there's no problem there either.
[38:05] >> So do we know I mean what
[38:08] >> I guess did I miss what is actually
[38:10] going to be stored there? You know,
[38:11] >> right now
[38:12] >> just it's just a empty trailers and
[38:13] truck.
[38:15] >> All right. There's not we're not storing
[38:16] any materials.
[38:17] >> There's no materials there whatsoever.
[38:19] >> Okay. All right. Cool.
[38:21] >> No everything. Like I say, I looked in
[38:23] threequarters of the trailers. Most of
[38:24] the trailers are all licensed.
[38:27] Uh there's a couple with uh out of state
[38:30] plates that are maybe one year out of
[38:32] compliance that way, but that's not us
[38:34] anyway.
[38:34] >> Yeah, that's not okay.
[38:36] >> Maine Maine.
[38:37] >> Yes.
[38:38] >> If it's Maine, that's not expired.
[38:40] >> Oh, really? Okay.
[38:42] >> A lot of trucking company
[38:46] is good for life.
[38:47] >> Oh, okay. Well, now our permanent
[38:49] trailer plates are now, but they weren't
[38:51] back then.
[38:52] >> Yeah.
[38:53] >> Okay.
[38:56] >> All right. Um,
[38:59] I will entertain a motion to approve the
[39:03] site plan
[39:05] >> on the condition that a key be given
[39:06] >> under the condition that a key be given
[39:08] for the fire department.
[39:14] I'll make a motion that the uh site plan
[39:17] be approved under the condition of the
[39:20] key is given to the fire department.
[39:22] >> Yes.
[39:23] >> And uh we really aren't going to deal
[39:26] with a time frame or nothing. Just
[39:28] basically Okay.
[39:30] As written. So
[39:32] >> yeah. Can I hear a second?
[39:34] >> I'll second.
[39:35] >> Okay.
[39:41] Uh, all in favor signify by saying I.
[39:44] >> I.
[39:45] >> Opposed. Okay. Motion carries. You're
[39:48] all set.
[39:50] >> Thank you for coming.
[39:51] >> Thank you so much. Nice meeting you
[39:53] guys.
[39:53] >> Oh, you too. Good luck.
[39:54] >> Yeah. Good luck.
[39:55] >> Next time I show up, we'll talk about
[40:01] industrial property.
[40:03] >> [laughter]
[40:05] » My plan is just I even I came here with
[40:09] my real estate agent
[40:11] >> and we spoke to the lady in charge and
[40:13] we talk about everything. My plan is to
[40:17] have an industrial part and we start
[40:20] running to a come back and I'll build on
[40:25] the left on the right
[40:29] and you just build them.
[40:33] Awesome.
[40:33] >> And make the right.
[40:36] >> Okay.
[40:36] >> All righty.
[40:37] >> All right, sir. [laughter]
[40:39] >> All right.
[40:39] >> We'll see.
[40:40] >> I'm gonna go play.
[40:43] >> All right.
[40:44] >> Good luck, bud. Good luck. Take care,
[40:46] guys.
[40:47] >> Have a good night.
[40:48] >> See you later.
[40:49] >> All right. Uh, next item on the agenda,
[40:52] public comment and announcements.
[40:56] And I don't see any.
[40:58] >> Commissioner comments. Thomas.
[41:02] No, I'm all set.
[41:04] >> You sure?
[41:05] >> Yeah, I really don't have a lot to say
[41:08] today.
[41:09] >> All right. Uh, Greg,
[41:11] >> uh, thanks for having me. Sorry for the,
[41:14] uh, stupid questions, but you know,
[41:17] >> start somewhere and there's no way. You
[41:20] know, one thing I don't know either is
[41:21] that, you know, I I I'm the leazison on
[41:23] to the board, right?
[41:24] >> Correct.
[41:25] >> Do I do I vote? Do I have any say or do
[41:28] I, you know,
[41:29] >> on our board?
[41:30] >> I don't want to overstep my boundary.
[41:32] No, no,
[41:32] >> I just don't know.
[41:33] >> You're uh you're you're a sitting
[41:35] commissioner just like the rest of us.
[41:37] You're full-fledged.
[41:38] >> The only thing you do at that point in
[41:40] time is if the board asks you any
[41:42] questions, you tell them.
[41:43] >> Yeah.
[41:44] >> Okay.
[41:45] >> What we're doing here basically.
[41:46] >> Yeah. Yeah. I just kind of got thrown
[41:49] into the mix.
[41:50] >> No, you're fine.
[41:51] >> I'm okay. I just wanted to make sure I
[41:53] knew where I stood.
[41:53] >> No, you're fine. James,
[41:56] >> I had mentioned it before and I just
[41:58] still wonder, but I mean like the uh
[42:02] the gravel train traffic, they've kind
[42:05] of like since we've redid the bridge on
[42:08] Chartier now they got the load
[42:10] restrictions off it.
[42:11] >> Mhm.
[42:12] Well, the normal route should be like 26
[42:15] to King Road, Chartier, and to the stone
[42:18] yards, you know, but now there's quite a
[42:20] few of them that are cutting off on
[42:22] Marsh Road, Chartier. It's eliminating
[42:25] one stop sign, but it's, you know, it's
[42:29] more of a residential area where they do
[42:31] have a commercial area where this truck
[42:32] traffic should be going. And Greg, it
[42:35] said something about they're going to
[42:36] look at possibly, you know, putting some
[42:38] signage up or something, you know, no
[42:39] through truck traffic or anything like
[42:41] that. And I mean, how do we approach
[42:43] that to try to I understand deliveries
[42:46] got to go through and if you're building
[42:48] something, but just using it as a
[42:50] throughway is what they're doing now
[42:54] just to get to the stone yard to get
[42:56] back to 26. [clears throat] And I think
[42:57] >> when it's destroying a lot of roads and
[43:00] everything, you know, I mean, it's just
[43:01] bad for the neighbors and I just some
[43:03] way of trying to curve that.
[43:05] >> I don't know. Do we have any
[43:06] jurisdiction on something like that,
[43:08] Ash?
[43:08] >> Um, it might depend on on the road.
[43:11] Exactly. I think a good place to start
[43:12] would be some signage. Um or I don't
[43:15] know if if you you know the the is it a
[43:19] the industrial park where they're
[43:21] headed. I don't know if we know the
[43:22] >> they're going to a grally
[43:25] area on the river actually.
[43:26] >> Is that it's it's within the township?
[43:29] >> Yeah. Yes.
[43:30] >> It might be Marine City.
[43:34] >> Yeah. They have to go through our
[43:35] township to get to Right.
[43:36] >> But it's not ours.
[43:37] >> Right. So yeah, I mean my recommendation
[43:39] would be to start with some signage and
[43:41] then maybe, you know, get in touch with
[43:43] the management of the the facility
[43:46] there. Maybe Greg can give that guy a
[43:47] call and just let him know, hey, we're experiencing the this cut through
[43:50] traffic. We're putting up some sign
[43:51] start there. And if that doesn't seem to
[43:54] solve problems, then maybe we can look
[43:57] into some other enforcement type
[43:59] options. But um I don't know.
[44:02] >> I just see a lot of signs go up. You
[44:04] know, they're talking about Jake
[44:05] breaking, no engine breaking. You see
[44:07] that? Yeah. And then
[44:09] >> engine braking is not supposed to be
[44:10] used in a residential,
[44:11] >> right? And they're doing it and that's
[44:13] what I mean,
[44:13] >> right? So, it's an enforcement kind of
[44:15] piece. I don't know if that's, you know,
[44:17] public safety.
[44:18] >> Well, you know, when that roundabout
[44:20] comes, it's going to get a lot worse.
[44:22] >> Which roundabout's this?
[44:24] >> Um, Marsh and Marine City Highway.
[44:26] >> Oh, yeah.
[44:27] >> Next year.
[44:27] >> That's supposed to be the next one.
[44:29] >> Yeah.
[44:31] >> They're going to put a roundabout there.
[44:34] When that comes, the trucks rather than
[44:37] make a half circle around, they're going
[44:38] to make a right hand turn and then a
[44:40] rolling left on the chart here
[44:44] and then this straight shot in. So that
[44:46] way they avoid the red light and
[44:48] >> on Marine City Highway and King the red
[44:51] light road. Yeah.
[44:52] >> Plank West Boulevard, whichever way you
[44:54] want to call it
[44:56] >> and a stop sign.
[44:57] >> Yeah. So, they're just it's just a
[45:01] they've got to slow down for the
[45:03] roundabout anyhow.
[45:04] >> So, they're just going to make a right
[45:06] hand turn.
[45:06] >> And the only thing is if the road is
[45:08] rated for their weight, I don't know
[45:11] there's jurisdiction to stop them.
[45:14] When when I
[45:16] when we well when we both built our
[45:18] houses back in the 70s,
[45:23] uh that end of Marsh Road was rated at 9
[45:26] ton when they repaved retopped it here
[45:30] what about six years ago?
[45:32] >> Yeah. No, maybe a little longer.
[45:34] >> Probably six, seven years ago. That's
[45:37] when they took the nine ton ride rating
[45:39] down. Since then, the semi traffic, the
[45:44] gravel train traffic has
[45:47] slowly accelerated, but in the last
[45:50] year, it's picked up a lot.
[45:53] >> Yeah.
[45:54] >> And when that roundabout comes, it's
[45:57] going to pick up a lot more because
[45:59] Marine City Highway has a lot of
[46:02] gravel trains that go to the gravel
[46:04] yards that both yards down there.
[46:08] And they put that new bridge across the
[46:10] drudge cut.
[46:11] >> Right.
[46:12] >> That's that was a capper.
[46:13] >> Yeah. Now they took all the restrictions
[46:15] off right there.
[46:16] >> Right.
[46:17] >> They were, you know, I mean, a two axle
[46:19] truck was barely going to make it over
[46:20] that one at that point, you know.
[46:22] >> Right.
[46:24] >> Yeah. I don't know. Like I said, that's something I don't know. That's
[46:27] kind of out of my my realm. I can tell
[46:29] you that.
[46:29] >> I had talked to Greg and he says
[46:31] something about
[46:33] truck route, you know, signages and
[46:34] stuff because that is supposedly the
[46:37] ideal route. through more the way it's
[46:40] zoned and industrial type thing. I don't
[46:42] >> I actually think that's something that
[46:43] would go I think to the township board.
[46:47] >> Yeah.
[46:47] >> Because I know Clay Township's done it
[46:50] for like the sand pit that was over on
[46:53] Benoy that West Simons used to own.
[46:56] There was a truck route section that had
[46:58] to come in off a marsh. couldn't come in
[46:59] off a stone road and go there
[47:01] >> because you had to use the truck route
[47:03] which the truck route was off a marsh
[47:05] and straight down but in order to get
[47:07] there.
[47:08] >> Okay.
[47:08] >> So, I mean there's probably where
[47:10] there's a will there's a way. It's just
[47:12] I don't know how the township goes about
[47:14] it.
[47:14] >> Yeah, I can look into it just to see
[47:16] what what other communities have done.
[47:18] I'm not
[47:19] >> Yeah, appreciate it because I just
[47:22] >> try to nip it in a bud before it does
[47:24] get too much but you know
[47:25] >> you can slow it down some.
[47:27] >> For sure.
[47:28] >> Yeah.
[47:29] Because
[47:29] >> right
[47:30] >> there's a lot of semis that come up and
[47:33] down now
[47:35] >> and they don't slow down. That's the
[47:36] worst part. They're they're they're
[47:37] hauling. You know, time is money so
[47:39] they're going.
[47:40] >> Yeah.
[47:43] That's all I got. Thank you,
[47:50] » Carol.
[47:51] >> What?
[47:51] >> Anything?
[47:53] >> Nothing.
[47:55] >> Hello.
[47:55] >> No.
[47:57] >> All right. I have nothing. Uh, do I hear
[48:00] a motion?
[48:02] >> I'll make a motion we turn the meeting
[48:05] for tonight.
[48:06] >> Second it.
[48:08] >> All in favor signify by saying I.
[48:11] >> I.
[48:12] >> Opposed.
[48:14] We are adjourned.
[48:16] >> Great.
[48:20] » The preceding program was produced by
[48:24] CTV Community Television. CTV Community
[48:27] Television is supported by the cities of
[48:29] Marine City and St. Claire, East China
[48:32] Township, Carterville Township, and the
[48:35] East China School District.