1 00:00:09,580 --> 00:00:25,740 Okay, welcome back for November 25th meeting of the committee of the whole. Next on the agenda is approval. Resolves that the agenda for the November 25th, 2025 committee of the whole meeting be approved as presented. Will we're secular, please? 2 00:00:39,580 --> 00:00:40,300 I'd be adopted. 3 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:42,240 Move your second, please. 4 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:45,780 Councilor Zaguerre, Councilor Noble. 5 00:00:46,700 --> 00:00:47,600 All in favor? 6 00:00:48,500 --> 00:00:49,380 Motion carries. 7 00:00:51,380 --> 00:00:53,000 Any disclosure of beginning of interest 8 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:54,160 through nature thereof? 9 00:00:55,820 --> 00:00:56,780 Not seeing any? 10 00:00:57,260 --> 00:01:00,040 Next, any members' motions? 11 00:01:02,380 --> 00:01:02,900 I see any. 12 00:01:03,300 --> 00:01:05,200 Down to item six, 6.1, 13 00:01:05,340 --> 00:01:07,320 manager of procurement risk general insurance 14 00:01:07,860 --> 00:01:09,940 and risk management services program 15 00:01:09,940 --> 00:01:12,300 for 2026. Welcome, Mike. 16 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:15,980 Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Warden. Through to County Council. 17 00:01:16,660 --> 00:01:21,860 So this report provides details regarding the general insurance and risk management services for 2026. 18 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:29,060 So Marsh was selected in 2021 through a competitive RFP process to provide the services for up to five years. 19 00:01:29,780 --> 00:01:32,140 So this is the final year of that contract term. 20 00:01:33,100 --> 00:01:38,160 The proposed insurance premium cost for 2026 is just over $620,000. 21 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:41,860 a 0.3% increase from the 2025 premium. 22 00:01:43,300 --> 00:01:46,940 And I'll know that's a welcome change to our last large percentage increases. 23 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:51,480 The attached premium comparison provides a difference for each policy line. 24 00:01:52,340 --> 00:01:55,540 You'll note that we've added in the cost of provincial sales tax as well. 25 00:01:56,480 --> 00:01:58,860 And as that cost is not rebated to the county. 26 00:01:59,920 --> 00:02:03,540 At this time, we're recommending renewal of this program for one year term and 27 00:02:03,540 --> 00:02:06,560 the issuance of a new RFP process in 2026. 28 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:10,820 The two staff recommendations are before you, at this time, I'd be pleased to answer any questions. 29 00:02:11,700 --> 00:02:12,420 Thank you, Mike. 30 00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:14,180 Congratulations, please. 31 00:02:15,500 --> 00:02:21,680 Resolved that the general insurance and risk management services program proposed by Marsh Canada Limited 32 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:32,320 be approved at the annual premium cost of $620,684 plus tax, 8% PST, commencing December 15th, 2025, 33 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:35,300 and expiring on December 15th, 2026. 34 00:02:35,300 --> 00:02:39,560 and that the manager of procurement and risk and director of financial services 35 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:42,160 treasurer be authorized to renew the policy. 36 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:44,360 We're in second, please. 37 00:02:45,340 --> 00:02:51,380 Councilor Latham, Deputy Warden Ketchbaw, any discussion, questions from Mike. 38 00:02:54,340 --> 00:02:58,660 Seeing any, all in favor, motion carries. 39 00:02:59,120 --> 00:02:59,460 Thank you, Mike. 40 00:03:01,990 --> 00:03:05,290 Next, we have Director of Planning, Development, County Planning, Update, 41 00:03:05,730 --> 00:03:07,170 welcome, Matt, floor is yours. 42 00:03:07,170 --> 00:03:08,250 Good 43 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:17,900 afternoon, through the warden to members of the committee and council. 44 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:24,640 The report before you highlights the evolution of the planning department here at the county. 45 00:03:25,780 --> 00:03:30,840 What started with a team that was primarily focused on policy and development matters here 46 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:36,120 at the county, we've expanded, we're currently providing planning service to two of our local 47 00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:38,780 municipal partners, Dutton Dunwich and Southwold. 48 00:03:38,780 --> 00:03:46,820 Most recently, we have had two other of our local municipal partners, councils decide 49 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:51,160 to sign on with the planning service, which is pretty exciting. 50 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:57,240 Growth with our department is something that will really be focusing on in 2026. 51 00:03:58,220 --> 00:04:04,880 So, the report before you breaks down the numbers, projected revenues, projected costs. 52 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:14,620 We're looking to hire an additional development planner to help us with the increased workload that the two LMPs will bring with them to our department. 53 00:04:15,540 --> 00:04:20,500 Any additional details? I'm here for questions, but I can leave it there. Thanks very much. 54 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:23,720 Thank you, Matt. Congratulations, please. 55 00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:31,700 Results at the report titles County Planning Update from the Director of Planning and Development dated November 25th, 2025. 56 00:04:31,700 --> 00:04:38,440 be received and filed and that county council direct planning staff to proceed with hiring a new planner FTE 57 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:43,760 to increase the county's planning staff complement to provide planning services to West Elian. 58 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:53,940 Move her a seconder please. Councillor Hance, Councillor Atham, questions from that? 59 00:04:58,660 --> 00:04:59,540 The answer is your gear. 60 00:05:00,700 --> 00:05:04,960 Just a couple of clarifications. Thank you for the good report through you, Mr. Warden. 61 00:05:05,820 --> 00:05:13,740 The planning consultant, do we need to have a retainer fee to maintain his or her availability? 62 00:05:14,780 --> 00:05:20,820 And my second question is when it comes to service that you talk about being available 63 00:05:20,820 --> 00:05:28,480 in the office, do you mean the office here at sunset or an office in the municipality? 64 00:05:29,420 --> 00:05:34,340 Through the warden to Councillor Jagerre, we do not pay a retainer fee for our consultant. 65 00:05:35,060 --> 00:05:40,840 The consultant is a long time consultant. It's Paul Hicks office out of Montreal. 66 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:47,260 That service has been going well for us. We've been drawing on it as a needed basis. 67 00:05:48,700 --> 00:05:55,420 Your second question in regards to service in the office, we will be providing in office 68 00:05:55,420 --> 00:05:59,740 the service at the each municipality as requested. 69 00:06:00,820 --> 00:06:04,840 So currently our service to done which in office 70 00:06:04,840 --> 00:06:06,320 has been put on hold, 71 00:06:06,620 --> 00:06:09,200 but we do provide a day of service 72 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:10,700 in the South Hold Office. 73 00:06:10,700 --> 00:06:14,260 We'll be providing a day at the West Algan Office 74 00:06:14,260 --> 00:06:15,880 and a day at the Bayam office. 75 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:17,200 And then in addition to that, 76 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:19,860 we are also available all the time in our office. 77 00:06:20,460 --> 00:06:24,080 So if something comes up and somebody would like to speak 78 00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:26,360 to us in person, and it's not on a day that we're there. 79 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:30,300 They're invited to come to the county's office, and there'll be someone here that's available. 80 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:36,000 I guess I can comment from selfless perspective. 81 00:06:36,140 --> 00:06:39,800 It's worked out very well, having Paul in the office once a week. 82 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:44,080 And if there are questions from our own staff, they know where to call. 83 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:45,700 It's worked out very well. 84 00:06:48,490 --> 00:06:49,630 The other questions from Matt? 85 00:06:51,470 --> 00:06:53,250 Matt, we'll go ahead, Deputy Warden. 86 00:06:55,190 --> 00:06:56,070 Just for a clerk, 87 00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:00,960 does your motion need to include Bayham as well? 88 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:05,840 I really don't care, because we're going to do it regardless, but. 89 00:07:06,740 --> 00:07:12,020 Through the awarding, just for clarification, when I started writing this report, at the 90 00:07:12,020 --> 00:07:17,980 time, only West Elgin had indicated interest in signing up to the County's Planning Service, 91 00:07:18,420 --> 00:07:22,660 and then halfway through writing the report, we were notified that Bayham was as well, so 92 00:07:22,660 --> 00:07:25,120 and that park doesn't need to be updated to include them, please. 93 00:07:30,140 --> 00:07:33,900 I think that's a good new story, maybe. 94 00:07:35,820 --> 00:07:37,460 Any further comments? 95 00:07:39,220 --> 00:07:40,260 I'll call vote, all in favor. 96 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:42,600 Motion carries. 97 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:43,520 Thanks, Matt. 98 00:07:46,820 --> 00:07:52,840 Next, Jeff, Director of Financial Services, the Treasurer, regarding Eldon County Grant Funding Request. 99 00:07:54,300 --> 00:07:55,000 Floor is yours, Jen. 100 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:58,080 Through you, Mr. Warden, to members of Council. 101 00:07:58,940 --> 00:08:04,940 In 2024, Council approved a new and simplified grant and sponsorship policy. 102 00:08:05,220 --> 00:08:11,320 Then ensures that all funding requests submitted to the county are handled in a consistent, fair and equitable manner. 103 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:24,740 The policy is provided for you in Appendix 1, and through this program, the county of Algonn allocates grants and sponsorships to eligible organizations and initiatives that support the county's current mission. 104 00:08:24,740 --> 00:08:28,140 vision and values and council's strategic plan. 105 00:08:29,100 --> 00:08:43,440 Council awarded sponsorships to 24 applicants in 2025 and has awarded one grant to date in 2025 in the amount of $5,700 to the Wallace Town Fair Agricultural Society for their office building project. 106 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:50,340 Council allocated $240,000 in the 2025 budget towards the capital grant program. 107 00:08:51,020 --> 00:08:57,060 The purpose of this report is to seek council's direction regarding awarding the grant funding 108 00:08:57,060 --> 00:09:02,060 for three additional applications that have been received under the grant stream of the program. 109 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:07,860 Applications have been submitted by the South Doorchester Home and School Association, 110 00:09:08,560 --> 00:09:13,940 the Port Burwell Home and School Association, and the Hospice of Elgin for Capital Projects. 111 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:18,400 Details regarding each application are provided below, as well, 112 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:24,240 While each application is provided in your agenda package under appendix 2, 3 and 4. 113 00:09:27,530 --> 00:09:32,070 The three applications submitted under the County of Algon Grant and Sponsorship Program 114 00:09:32,070 --> 00:09:37,050 demonstrate strong community leadership and alignment with Council's commitment to supporting 115 00:09:37,050 --> 00:09:42,010 projects that enhance the quality of life and promote community well-being across Algon 116 00:09:42,010 --> 00:09:42,430 County. 117 00:09:43,210 --> 00:09:48,890 Both the South Doorchester and Port Burwell Community well-being, home and school association 118 00:09:48,890 --> 00:09:58,250 have met all eligibility requirements under the policy, and their playground projects will provide lasting recreational and social benefits for children and families. 119 00:09:59,010 --> 00:10:13,190 The Hospice of Elgin Project, while providing an essential community service, does not fully comply with the terms of the county's grant and sponsorship policy due to its faith-based affiliation, multi-year funding request, and submission timing. 120 00:10:13,190 --> 00:10:24,870 Staff are requesting that Council provide direction regarding the funding requests received from the South Doorchester Home and School Association, the Port Burwell Home and School Association, and the Hospice of Algan. 121 00:10:25,530 --> 00:10:26,950 I'd be happy to answer any questions. 122 00:10:28,670 --> 00:10:31,510 Thank you, Jen. Questions, concerns? 123 00:10:31,510 --> 00:10:42,090 I guess I would like to address the hospice of Elgin with regards to affiliated health 124 00:10:42,090 --> 00:10:43,870 care of face-based organizations. 125 00:10:44,330 --> 00:10:46,670 I think that's false. 126 00:10:48,410 --> 00:10:55,250 Yes, it is an associate of the St. Joe's health care, but I've spoken to management, 127 00:11:01,470 --> 00:11:01,490 I've 128 00:11:04,510 --> 00:11:08,710 There's a team that has put this proposal together. 129 00:11:10,890 --> 00:11:14,510 You can walk in that door, it doesn't matter what faith you are. 130 00:11:14,750 --> 00:11:18,110 It's the same as walking into St. Joe's Hospital for a shoulder repair. 131 00:11:19,230 --> 00:11:21,450 They don't, there's no faith involved. 132 00:11:21,950 --> 00:11:26,430 It's this funding from the province to ensure that she get proper care. 133 00:11:27,390 --> 00:11:30,050 This is no different at the hospice. 134 00:11:31,550 --> 00:11:33,510 They have a chaplain on site. 135 00:11:34,030 --> 00:11:37,310 Chaplain is trained in multiple face, 136 00:11:38,170 --> 00:11:41,110 whether it's Muslim, Buddhist, whatever. 137 00:11:41,590 --> 00:11:45,730 They are then trained to fill the needs 138 00:11:45,730 --> 00:11:47,450 of whoever walks through that door. 139 00:11:48,170 --> 00:11:51,370 With regards to maid, I know that's been mentioned before. 140 00:11:51,370 --> 00:12:00,170 or most hospice in Ontario do not promote me, whether they're associated with the hospital 141 00:12:00,170 --> 00:12:05,630 or private clinics, there's only a couple that do that. 142 00:12:06,210 --> 00:12:14,190 This is based on the thought process of what a hospice is and the hospice is not part 143 00:12:14,190 --> 00:12:19,110 of, or made is not part of that program for majority of hospice in Ontario. 144 00:12:19,110 --> 00:12:28,890 So I really argue the fact that this is a faith-based organization because they support 145 00:12:28,890 --> 00:12:32,250 all faiths and without question. 146 00:12:33,650 --> 00:12:39,770 So with regards, I do have an issue with the Yask or five years, I think it should be, 147 00:12:40,850 --> 00:12:46,130 and I told people that this should be a one-year ask and keep coming back and applying, and 148 00:12:46,130 --> 00:12:53,810 you either get or you don't get it but that's my statement for that one and I'll leave it there. 149 00:13:01,780 --> 00:13:09,540 So Catherine would like to do each request individually so we'll start down that list then. 150 00:13:09,980 --> 00:13:17,000 All right thank you Mr. Warden. So the first resolution would be that county council provide funding 151 00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:21,460 in the amount of $12,000 for the South Doorchester Home and School Association. 152 00:13:23,230 --> 00:13:33,890 As for a mover and a seconder, Councillor Noble, Councillor Gagher, any discussion, all in 153 00:13:33,890 --> 00:13:36,790 favour? Motion carries. 154 00:13:44,250 --> 00:13:48,790 Resolves that County Council provide funding in the amount of $2,000 for the Port Burwell 155 00:13:48,790 --> 00:13:50,250 Home and School Association. 156 00:13:50,250 --> 00:13:56,370 I have a mover and seconder please, Councillor Hance, Councillor Noble, discussion, 157 00:13:58,610 --> 00:13:59,610 all in 158 00:13:59,610 --> 00:14:02,170 favour, motion carries. 159 00:14:09,590 --> 00:14:17,800 And the third is that county council provide funding in the amount of $1 million over 160 00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:20,620 a five-year period to hospice of Elgin. 161 00:14:20,620 --> 00:14:22,700 over in seconder, please. 162 00:14:27,190 --> 00:14:32,540 Councilor Noble, seconder. Councilor Ziegair. 163 00:14:35,890 --> 00:14:36,610 Discussion? 164 00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:39,980 I guess 165 00:14:39,980 --> 00:14:44,870 I've stated my case as I'll leave it at that. 166 00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:48,980 Go ahead, Councilor Ziegair. No. 167 00:14:53,010 --> 00:14:58,750 So, through you, Mr. Morgan, so what would 168 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:27,880 I'm wondering if the committee should be considering a one-year commitment and what that would look like. So, we're, I don't know, staff of the comment of what that amount could be if we were to pro-read it to one year. I would agree. I can't support five years, but I definitely would consider one year commitment and then be considered again in a future year. 169 00:15:29,880 --> 00:15:30,400 Jen? 170 00:15:31,180 --> 00:15:37,680 You mean Mr. Warden to members of Council, at this point, if the two other ones are approved, 171 00:15:37,940 --> 00:15:44,780 there would be approximately 222,000 left in that pot, so that would be the maximum amount 172 00:15:44,780 --> 00:15:46,440 for this year that we could allocate. 173 00:15:50,750 --> 00:15:54,650 We have a mover second, would you like to throw it in hell? 174 00:16:01,420 --> 00:16:09,760 So we could add that amount to the motion then, if the mover is willing that the committee 175 00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:15,140 consider funding the hospice to the tune of 222,000. 176 00:16:16,780 --> 00:16:18,260 So that's okay with the mover. 177 00:16:18,820 --> 00:16:18,840 Yeah. 178 00:16:24,330 --> 00:16:25,310 Thank you, Mr. Warden. 179 00:16:25,810 --> 00:16:31,650 So if the mover and seconder are okay with it, we could modify the resolution to say that 180 00:16:31,650 --> 00:16:39,330 that the County of Elgin provide funding in the amount of $220,000 in 2025 to hospice of Elgin. 181 00:16:41,140 --> 00:16:42,260 Is it 20s? 182 00:16:43,140 --> 00:16:44,160 It's this year. 183 00:16:48,610 --> 00:16:49,330 Councillor Giorgio? 184 00:16:50,390 --> 00:16:51,670 Thank you, Mr. Warden. 185 00:16:51,850 --> 00:16:59,670 So based on your statement earlier and based on the report, so that means this amount is already 186 00:16:59,670 --> 00:17:01,410 accounted for in the budget. 187 00:17:01,410 --> 00:17:16,330 So it's been allocated by this Council for the 2025 budget and if we consider the comments from the warden, then this would qualify under this policy. 188 00:17:16,530 --> 00:17:29,990 So in other words, if it fits policy and it's already in the budget, there's not a lot more to debate or any reasons to not support it. 189 00:17:33,590 --> 00:17:42,310 I guess if I had a wish, there's a couple of open houses at the hospice and where they 190 00:17:42,310 --> 00:17:47,250 walked you through the process and I think that would have been clear in the presentations 191 00:17:47,250 --> 00:17:52,750 from all the different managers that work in there including the chaplain of how things 192 00:17:52,750 --> 00:17:53,070 work. 193 00:17:53,070 --> 00:18:00,910 and so I think I was probably the only one from County that went through the open house, 194 00:18:01,010 --> 00:18:09,250 but anyway, it's just food for thought, but that has been backed up by management and as well 195 00:18:09,250 --> 00:18:16,370 as the two doctors which I highly respect as being professionals and not and being very upfront 196 00:18:16,370 --> 00:18:17,890 with how the process works. 197 00:18:23,060 --> 00:18:26,420 There's nothing else to other questions at Deputy Warden. 198 00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:26,700 Go ahead. 199 00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:31,980 Just an observation, Mr. Warden, it seems to me 200 00:18:31,980 --> 00:18:36,760 that if the county worked down this road, it's changing horses, 201 00:18:36,980 --> 00:18:40,460 sort of speak, in a direction that it had already mapped out previously. 202 00:18:42,420 --> 00:18:45,860 I wouldn't wonder that this might be considered a bit of an insult 203 00:18:45,860 --> 00:18:51,690 call to those who pioneered the idea of serenity house. 204 00:18:53,070 --> 00:18:56,290 I don't agree with your assessment on not being faith-based. 205 00:18:57,310 --> 00:19:01,790 There were three categories here that staff had identified that it didn't meet the criteria. 206 00:19:02,430 --> 00:19:07,490 We've leapfroged through and perhaps tried to convince ourselves that in two categories it does. 207 00:19:08,250 --> 00:19:10,390 I'm sorry, I just can't support this. 208 00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:17,220 Councillor Gagard, go ahead. 209 00:19:17,220 --> 00:19:19,880 Thank you, Mr. Warden. 210 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:23,960 So can we clarify the other two areas? 211 00:19:24,220 --> 00:19:27,520 So I think one of them was that it was a five-year ask. 212 00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:31,460 So we would be modifying this to a one-year commitment. 213 00:19:32,060 --> 00:19:34,740 And what was the third criteria that it didn't meet? 214 00:19:35,020 --> 00:19:37,200 Submission one year before project meeting. 215 00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:38,240 Gotcha. 216 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:51,700 And I guess I would say with submission, they have submitted the pass because of procedure they were turned down in the past. 217 00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:59,000 I can't exactly remember what the reasoning was, but they think they're too late at the time before. 218 00:19:59,900 --> 00:20:07,040 Memory serves me that I know they tried to apply in whatever reason that didn't happen. 219 00:20:12,390 --> 00:20:20,550 If I, Mr. Warden, if I may, my recollection is that then they came before us, there was 220 00:20:20,550 --> 00:20:23,950 an initial ask at the time, we didn't have a policy in place. 221 00:20:24,330 --> 00:20:32,350 So we kind of put it on hold, council asked staff to develop a policy to help us deal with 222 00:20:32,350 --> 00:20:33,310 these types of requests. 223 00:20:33,310 --> 00:20:42,050 they then returned last June, I believe, or may, they had a delegation at which point, 224 00:20:42,410 --> 00:20:48,910 and if I recall that delegation didn't have a specific ask, so Council said, now that we have a 225 00:20:48,910 --> 00:20:56,130 policy in place, could you please come back and with a specific ask, so Council could consider it. 226 00:20:56,470 --> 00:21:00,490 So that was my interpretation as to why that criteria in terms of the timing. 227 00:21:01,830 --> 00:21:08,410 in fairness to them, we've put them on hold so that we could sort out our mechanism 228 00:21:08,410 --> 00:21:16,090 for making a decision. They have been quite patient and have followed all of the requirements 229 00:21:16,090 --> 00:21:21,130 we put before them. So that's why in my interpretation, I was waiving that third criteria. 230 00:21:25,410 --> 00:21:26,530 Anything further? 231 00:21:29,070 --> 00:21:31,710 Then I'll call Councillor Hance. Go ahead. 232 00:21:33,330 --> 00:21:39,710 I'm trying to recall all the details they've been here a number of times and I'm trying 233 00:21:39,710 --> 00:21:47,310 to wrap my head around what's changed this time with their request and I'm having trouble 234 00:21:47,310 --> 00:21:48,710 supporting it at this time. 235 00:21:49,090 --> 00:21:56,890 I think they have the right to come back with a specific ask and I think all we're doing 236 00:21:56,890 --> 00:22:03,650 as changing words and language to somehow try and accommodate and ask that it's nothing 237 00:22:03,650 --> 00:22:10,670 like what I have before me here right now. So I'm having really a challenge with accepting 238 00:22:10,670 --> 00:22:14,690 their request that we've modified in order to make it work. 239 00:22:19,290 --> 00:22:30,610 Okay. Anything further? Not all in favor? We're in favor? Opposed? Opposed? Have a dead 240 00:22:30,610 --> 00:22:32,330 lock. No decision. 241 00:22:39,120 --> 00:22:45,620 Okay moving on to 6-4, Director of Legal Services, kind of shared services. 242 00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:49,700 Nick back there. Yep, here he goes. 243 00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:04,980 Good afternoon, Warden, through you to council. 244 00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:10,600 So the report that I have before you is an update to a report I brought in August of this year. 245 00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:16,900 That's why it's entitled 3-B and remains with the Title County Shared Services. And before I even 246 00:23:16,900 --> 00:23:21,160 start because I'm going to say different words about roughly the same concept. 247 00:23:21,380 --> 00:23:26,680 So earlier this summer, we were talking about the services that the county provides, 248 00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:31,940 either in conjunction with or to the local municipal partners as shared services. 249 00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:36,880 As we went through that early report in August, which is attached to this one for ease of reference, 250 00:23:37,540 --> 00:23:43,520 it became apparent that one of the things we needed to focus on in order to tackle this project 251 00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:47,520 is the ones where we are essentially selling a service like a professional consulting 252 00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:53,040 style service to other local municipal partners or public entities that we have arrangements 253 00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:58,140 with. And so I have moved to more accurately calling those contracted services. So the 254 00:23:58,140 --> 00:24:04,200 policy that's before you today is a contracted services policy and the updated report that's 255 00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:09,860 before you in November uses the terminology contracted services. And so that is the gist 256 00:24:09,860 --> 00:24:16,280 of this report in any event. So on August 12, I guess it's committee of the whole 257 00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:20,680 directed staff to develop a philosophy and policy framework to govern when and how the 258 00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:25,340 county will sell services to external organizations and to return before you today with that. 259 00:24:26,020 --> 00:24:31,520 So that's what we've done. I led the project, but it was in conjunction with all of ELT. We looked 260 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:38,820 at the Algon County Strategic Plan, the most recent service delivery review, which is done back in 261 00:24:38,820 --> 00:24:46,040 2020, and then we all just walked through because we deliver contract and services across 262 00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:51,780 our departments at what some of those merits, benefits, challenges, drawbacks were across 263 00:24:51,780 --> 00:24:56,600 the different departments, and we came up with, first of all, a philosophy that's actually 264 00:24:56,600 --> 00:25:01,440 contained in the report, which is the county may provide contract and services to other 265 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:05,640 public entities where it can be established that providing such service will provide value 266 00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:10,100 for the citizens and ratepayers of Logan County that at the very least the cost will be recovered 267 00:25:10,100 --> 00:25:14,640 to ensure fairness to the county's ratepayers and that there will be no negative impact on county 268 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:19,600 operations or resources including personnel. So I realize it's a very long sentence but I'm trying 269 00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:26,360 to capture all the different ideas in a philosophical statement. If we go to the first appendix which 270 00:25:26,360 --> 00:25:33,600 in the PDF of our agenda starts on page 105, it's just behind my report. If you're looking at the 271 00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:41,080 report separately in eScrib, that policy statement sort of sets out why we're doing this, 272 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:45,960 and then just below that under the main heading purpose, we see an underlying area that 273 00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:51,600 says criteria, and these are really the established criteria that fills that philosophy. 274 00:25:52,380 --> 00:25:56,900 So sorry, I do promise I'm not going to read the entire policy, but I think it's worthwhile 275 00:25:56,900 --> 00:26:01,720 reading the criteria that we set out so that committee can make an informed decision on 276 00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:02,740 whether to approve this policy. 277 00:26:02,740 --> 00:26:07,700 So first of all that a request for contracted services been received by one or more external 278 00:26:07,700 --> 00:26:13,940 public entities and that's just to sort of move forward with the we don't we don't sit 279 00:26:13,940 --> 00:26:18,740 around ELT table and generate ideas of things to sell essentially unless we have some direction 280 00:26:18,740 --> 00:26:23,160 for council to do that. So where this starts with what is the need and that need is usually 281 00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:28,720 described to us by someone who is external to us. Second that there's demonstrated value 282 00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:33,080 for the citizens or ratepayers in Elgan County for the service to be delivered by the county. 283 00:26:33,500 --> 00:26:37,060 The third is that there's sufficient resources at the county to deliver the service, 284 00:26:37,340 --> 00:26:41,560 and that's without materially or substantially delaying other county projects or services 285 00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:47,500 that are core things. That there is a minimum full cost recovery to the county and delivering 286 00:26:47,500 --> 00:26:53,020 the service, and that's to make sure that there's no unfairness to any ratepayers in any portion 287 00:26:53,020 --> 00:26:57,840 of the county. So ultimately, our levy dollars are collected from everyone. If we're unfairly 288 00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:03,900 subsidizing a service to a particular rate payer than the effect of that is shifting the burden of 289 00:27:03,900 --> 00:27:08,120 that service to the other rate payer. There's another municipality. So that's what we're trying to 290 00:27:08,120 --> 00:27:13,340 achieve is the level of fairness. And the reason it says that minimum is there is the option to have it 291 00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:19,620 not just capture cost but to generate revenue that still has a business case to provide value 292 00:27:19,620 --> 00:27:25,000 for citizens so that there is a way to generate revenue for the county and yet it still be cheaper 293 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:28,120 than what would be going to the private sector for the locals. 294 00:27:29,020 --> 00:27:31,860 And then the last one is, of course, is that there's a formal agreement in place sitting 295 00:27:31,860 --> 00:27:36,480 out the terms and conditions of how we're going to do that, which will cover all of these 296 00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:36,780 areas. 297 00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:41,400 And the part I'm not going to read every bullet point about it starts in the next page, which 298 00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:42,640 is the assessment factors. 299 00:27:43,380 --> 00:27:49,780 So we came up with a list of essentially factors that we would walk through in a way 300 00:27:49,780 --> 00:27:56,380 to guide or decision making any time that we have a new contracted service proposed to 301 00:27:56,380 --> 00:27:59,820 us or for just re-evaluating one that we already provide. 302 00:28:01,100 --> 00:28:06,040 They are designed to answer the question of are all the criteria met. 303 00:28:07,300 --> 00:28:13,920 So you will see in there things like cost recovery which is toward the bottom of the page is 304 00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:18,220 to include not only all expenses related to directly providing the service but all of the 305 00:28:18,220 --> 00:28:22,900 administrative overhead or corporate support department, so if legal does work for a local, 306 00:28:23,340 --> 00:28:28,880 we have billing, and so my clerk works on it, which is fine, but then also finance supports 307 00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,240 that billing ultimately to reconcile it into our budget. 308 00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:35,740 So there's work that finance is doing that is less apparent than the direct delivery of 309 00:28:35,740 --> 00:28:36,200 the service. 310 00:28:36,980 --> 00:28:40,900 All actual out of pocket expenses, of course, are for purchasing anything for some reason. 311 00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:46,620 Then we will make sure that the county recovers that, and then all indirect expenses, and 312 00:28:46,620 --> 00:28:51,240 And this is one that we don't capture with the high level of exact due to all the time, 313 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:53,020 but what I mean by that is risk. 314 00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:58,120 So often if you're hiring a professional consultant, one of the things you are buying is to offload 315 00:28:58,120 --> 00:28:59,540 risk to the other entity. 316 00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:04,740 And we want to find a way to deliver services at the county in a way that we aren't taking 317 00:29:04,740 --> 00:29:09,260 on the risk of a local municipal partner at the expense of possibly spreading that risk 318 00:29:09,260 --> 00:29:10,180 over the entire county. 319 00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:14,240 So we're going to build in mechanisms into the contracts essentially to take care of that 320 00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:19,480 to again make sure that risk is apportioned fairly, even though we hope nothing ever comes 321 00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:25,900 of those risks in any of it. The next couple of pages capture the procedure. It's relatively 322 00:29:25,900 --> 00:29:30,480 straightforward. I suspect it's what you would imagine would occur when we receive a new 323 00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:36,380 request through administration. Essentially, it will flow through the affected director. If they 324 00:29:36,380 --> 00:29:40,660 think it's possible or a good idea, they'll bring it to executive leadership. That gives the other 325 00:29:40,660 --> 00:29:44,900 directors of what will end up being sort of corporate support to that, the opportunity 326 00:29:44,900 --> 00:29:51,360 to chime in. Ultimately, the CAO will decide whether or not staff should engage, sorry, 327 00:29:51,580 --> 00:29:57,000 recommend engaging in the contracted service, and that is one area. Step five of that procedure 328 00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:59,980 drive inadvertently called a shared service, which will be corrected in the phone. 329 00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:29,780 And then the CAO will advise the entity that initially asked for the service of what the staff recommendation will be, and then we bring a report to council. So whether staff thinks we should deliver the service or not, provided that there's been enough movement to get us to do the entire analysis, we will come to council with our recommendation on whether or not to do it. So council will make that decision. Any time there is a new type or form of contract 330 00:30:30,260 --> 00:30:35,480 And I'll get to how we get to that in a moment when I talk about the existing ones. 331 00:30:36,020 --> 00:30:38,400 There's also a procedure where it's received through Council. 332 00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:44,260 So this flips a bit of the process on its head, which is either through statement by member. 333 00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:52,900 It's just identified at committee of the whole or council that you wish us to assess a contract in service, and that's fine. 334 00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:55,760 Or if there's just a piece of correspondence that appears on the agenda. 335 00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:59,300 As long as there's a resolution by committee of the whole or council to bring a staff report. 336 00:30:59,300 --> 00:31:04,860 we'll just do that, right. So we'll skip over the steps where the department had decides whether 337 00:31:04,860 --> 00:31:09,100 they're interested, that department will still assess it all and bring a report back to you. 338 00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:12,960 For existing contracted services because we have a number of them already, 339 00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:22,260 the requested contract service already exists in a formalized arrangement in this instance. So 340 00:31:22,260 --> 00:31:28,100 one of the ways to put it hopefully fairly easily is for legal services, we have arrangements with 341 00:31:28,100 --> 00:31:33,660 the various LMPs to provide legal advice, so that's an existing contract and service that said 342 00:31:33,660 --> 00:31:38,480 on each and every file I take in, I do actually decide whether or not we have capacity in the moment 343 00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:46,180 to deliver that service in that instance, and so I assess the request. I do this more intuitively 344 00:31:46,180 --> 00:31:50,380 than walking through every bullet point, but going forward we'll go through the bullet points of 345 00:31:50,380 --> 00:31:55,420 the assessment factors, and then they can essentially the director of the primarily affected 346 00:31:55,420 --> 00:31:58,720 department should inquire with other directors if it's not something that's already being 347 00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:01,980 routinely done to make sure that it's not going to cause any obstacles for anyone else. 348 00:32:02,500 --> 00:32:06,180 And then essentially you approve or refuse the provision of the contracted service. 349 00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:13,440 That said, where the intensity or scope of it is just expected to increase in a way that it just 350 00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:19,760 requires a full reconsideration of it, then that will again trigger an assessment as if it's a 351 00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:24,720 new contracted service, including returning to council. So if we have agreed the most likely 352 00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:30,140 scenario where this would occur is essentially to help out and a particular LNP or a bunch of 353 00:32:30,140 --> 00:32:35,140 them with a service area and often it's due to personnel change over or whatever it may be. 354 00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:39,500 If we're then approached later to say we want to make this permanent and we want you to take it all 355 00:32:39,500 --> 00:32:45,520 on not just help us with our most pressing files, then at that point that's such a difference in 356 00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:50,080 magnitude that we will assess it as if it's a new contracted service and return to council with it. 357 00:32:50,620 --> 00:32:54,340 So that council is not only deciding whether we're in a contractual arrangement with 358 00:32:54,980 --> 00:33:08,080 Another public entity did provide these, but you're also deciding the level of service we're providing right because this makes a difference on the workload of our folks what other council priorities you have. So it's making sure that councils a part of this process. 359 00:33:09,300 --> 00:33:13,300 There are a couple of exemptions because we thought it was prudent to build those in. 360 00:33:14,100 --> 00:33:22,400 One is if there's an acute need from the requesting entity for the service, so essentially if an emergency arises, then blame can authorize folks here to work on it. 361 00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:27,880 that the assessment factors are still being considered in the spirit of the criteria. 362 00:33:28,820 --> 00:33:32,920 So we're not just going to do it because someone asked really nicely, 363 00:33:33,100 --> 00:33:37,120 we're still going to go through the exercise to make sure that the spirit 364 00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:41,740 of what this policy set set is meant, that there's a firm end date to temporary assistance. 365 00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:45,380 So if we get a temporary request like, hey, we've run into a jam, can you help us have 366 00:33:45,380 --> 00:33:51,180 for X number of weeks or days, that everyone is clear that there's a firm end date. 367 00:33:51,180 --> 00:33:55,420 And the reason I put that in there is if we go past that, we're getting into the criteria 368 00:33:55,420 --> 00:33:59,360 of when we would come to council them, right, removing beyond that quick level of assistance. 369 00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:02,940 And then lastly, we do still need formal agreements in place. 370 00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:05,940 So this has to do with the risk and the cost recovery. 371 00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:10,880 So even if we're doing something very briefly or just to help out, we do need formal arrangements 372 00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:15,780 in place to make sure if anything goes awry that we can sort through any issues that arise. 373 00:34:17,460 --> 00:34:22,140 And then the other exemption, which is in Section 2, is essentially with the approval of 374 00:34:22,140 --> 00:34:25,940 the CAO, directors can accept requests to provide assistance with specific projects. 375 00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:32,260 So often we are asked to store RFP, things like that, to sit in on an interview panel. 376 00:34:32,740 --> 00:34:37,040 So those are out of this policy, like that's just sort of a one-off. 377 00:34:37,380 --> 00:34:40,240 Everyone knows it'll take a couple hours and we just do it in addition to our work. 378 00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:42,240 So that's my report. 379 00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:44,460 I'm happy to answer any questions you may have. 380 00:34:44,460 --> 00:34:49,200 But I'm hoping that I've captured what the direction was in August, which was to try and 381 00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:56,240 set out both a procedure as well as the factors we're trying to hit that will guide how and when we do these things. 382 00:34:57,680 --> 00:34:58,520 Thank you, Nick. 383 00:34:59,380 --> 00:35:00,520 Any questions for Nick? 384 00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:03,200 Sorry, can't go ahead. 385 00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:13,720 Resolves that the report titled LS253V, county shared services from the director of legal services dated November 25th, 386 00:35:13,720 --> 00:35:20,340 2025, it be received and filed, and that Council for the County of Elgin endorsed the county 387 00:35:20,340 --> 00:35:25,940 contracted services policy attached to this report as Appendix A, and that Council 388 00:35:25,940 --> 00:35:30,280 for the County of Elgin direct staff to create a standardized set of terms and conditions 389 00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:35,720 for the delivery of contracted services by the county that conforms to the county contracted 390 00:35:35,720 --> 00:35:36,840 services policy. 391 00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:51,860 Thank you, Mr. Wardens. 392 00:35:52,140 --> 00:35:57,260 First, I want to thank staff for putting the effort to sort this out. 393 00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:02,760 I think this will be really, really helpful because I've said from the beginning, I certainly 394 00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:07,460 they don't begrudge the collaborative spirit that they're ought to be in the relationship 395 00:36:07,460 --> 00:36:11,300 and the support that they're ought to be between LNPs and the county. 396 00:36:12,020 --> 00:36:17,740 I just want to make sure all along that this was done in a transparent, fair and equitable 397 00:36:17,740 --> 00:36:18,120 way. 398 00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:25,280 And I think you have achieved that with this proposed policy so that we can keep tabs on 399 00:36:25,940 --> 00:36:28,780 where our capacity and resources are going. 400 00:36:29,970 --> 00:36:30,660 So thank you. 401 00:36:30,860 --> 00:36:31,580 Thank you for that. 402 00:36:31,580 --> 00:36:56,480 And even including the risk management, like that was another aspect that I think had not been fully captured before, so that's spot on and I also appreciate the agility that you've left in for, you know, a cute request when you don't have to put time to put an agreement together that there's still room for obviously judgment and agility and flexibility, so thank you for that. 403 00:36:56,480 --> 00:37:25,640 But on that note, I'm wondering then if there's a plan or there could be a plan to report on that minimum once a year to say that in addition to all the contracted services that we've all seen maybe twice a year once a year by the way here are the ones that didn't come to council but here's like roughly how many hours or what types of services were provided to which municipality. 404 00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:29,680 So that way, there's again, that overall transparency provided. 405 00:37:33,660 --> 00:37:36,900 Through you, Ward and Jones, to Councillor Chigarri, yes, absolutely. 406 00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:40,620 We can include that in our regular reporting framework, absolutely. 407 00:37:46,470 --> 00:37:47,410 Any other questions? 408 00:37:51,700 --> 00:37:53,180 That'll call the vote, all in favour? 409 00:37:54,460 --> 00:37:55,280 Well, she carries. 410 00:37:55,780 --> 00:37:56,180 Thanks, Nick. 411 00:37:59,010 --> 00:38:03,210 And next, Director of Engineering Service, Transportation Master Plan, final report. 412 00:38:04,150 --> 00:38:06,210 I bet Peter's been looking forward to this one. 413 00:38:06,210 --> 00:38:13,130 Thank you, Mr. Ward, and yes, this has been a lengthy process, and it deserved the 414 00:38:13,130 --> 00:38:20,550 due consideration and the pause that the report experienced because we received lots of 415 00:38:20,550 --> 00:38:26,810 new information that modified the plan, because growth needs didn't exist when we began 416 00:38:26,810 --> 00:38:28,470 our transportation master plan. 417 00:38:28,470 --> 00:38:37,950 And we were effectively formalizing policies and then power co showed up and so what's 418 00:38:37,950 --> 00:38:44,410 before you today is the final transportation master plan report and it's before council 419 00:38:44,410 --> 00:38:49,390 to receive final approval before it is issued for a final 30 day review period. 420 00:38:50,190 --> 00:38:55,050 The TMP encompassed a number of studies and policy work that span a number of focus areas. 421 00:38:55,050 --> 00:39:00,690 At their September 9th meeting, County Council approved 31 initiatives supporting these 422 00:39:00,690 --> 00:39:06,090 areas, and those are summarized in the Transportation Master Plan final report before 423 00:39:06,090 --> 00:39:06,710 you today. 424 00:39:07,470 --> 00:39:13,350 This includes an action plan, and that starts in Section 5 and on page 48. 425 00:39:13,850 --> 00:39:20,230 That action plan identifies a phasing schedule and high-level cost associated with each one 426 00:39:20,230 --> 00:39:21,810 of these Council-approved initiatives. 427 00:39:21,810 --> 00:39:26,970 In accordance with the class EA planning process, a final 30-day comment period will 428 00:39:26,970 --> 00:39:33,050 commence once County Council approves the final report at their meeting on December 11th. 429 00:39:33,390 --> 00:39:39,530 The final implications resulting from implementing the TMP's recommendations will vary with no financial 430 00:39:39,530 --> 00:39:46,450 impact, and that is simply formalizing existing practices into formal policies, to potentially 431 00:39:46,450 --> 00:39:52,190 very costly investments. In one example, front and center of the TNP is the expansion of 432 00:39:52,190 --> 00:39:57,790 library avenue. Near-term recommendations that require capital improvements, such as 433 00:39:57,790 --> 00:40:04,530 our review of road safety intersection concerns, they are, have been, and council will see them. 434 00:40:04,630 --> 00:40:09,610 They have been included within the county's tenure capital plan. Other initiatives will 435 00:40:09,610 --> 00:40:15,110 require further council input before any investment would be made, and that's once council determines 436 00:40:15,110 --> 00:40:18,650 of direction. And an example of that is the provision of transit services. 437 00:40:19,710 --> 00:40:24,710 The county's LMPs will play an important role in implementing some of the recommended TMP 438 00:40:24,710 --> 00:40:29,530 initiatives, and will require collaboration with LMP specifically for, 439 00:40:30,350 --> 00:40:34,970 carpool lot development, road safety concerns, collecting transportation data, 440 00:40:35,610 --> 00:40:38,450 provision of transit services, and pedestrian crossing infrastructure. 441 00:40:39,030 --> 00:40:42,990 The TMP report will guide policy development and capital planning into the future, 442 00:40:42,990 --> 00:40:52,930 As our communities evolve, it will be important to update the TMP within a five-year time frame to ensure longer-term initiatives continue to meet Council's priorities. 443 00:40:53,630 --> 00:40:55,210 Be pleased to answer any questions you may have. 444 00:40:57,220 --> 00:40:58,080 Thank you, Peter. 445 00:40:58,600 --> 00:40:59,200 Resolution. 446 00:41:00,620 --> 00:41:07,260 Resolved that the report titled Transportation Master Plan Final Report Adoption from the Director of Engineering Services, 447 00:41:07,260 --> 00:41:22,020 dated November 25th, 2025, be received and filed and that the attached transportation master plan final draft report and engagement summary report be approved for a final 30-day public review period to conclude the project. 448 00:41:23,020 --> 00:41:24,420 We'll be very seconder, please. 449 00:41:24,700 --> 00:41:26,120 Councilor Hans, Councilor Latham. 450 00:41:26,860 --> 00:41:29,020 Any further discussion or comments? 451 00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:31,520 Councilor Whitner. 452 00:41:33,060 --> 00:41:35,160 Yes, thank you, Mr. Wardens, here to Peter. 453 00:41:36,500 --> 00:41:38,100 On the weekend, there was an interesting Facebook book. 454 00:41:38,260 --> 00:41:39,640 That one was about Fingall or Shadden, 455 00:41:39,720 --> 00:41:42,460 about agriculture equipment and newly designed roads. 456 00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:44,860 About 350 comments about it. 457 00:41:45,780 --> 00:41:47,220 What are we doing to accommodate 458 00:41:47,220 --> 00:41:48,580 the larger equipment that's on the road 459 00:41:48,580 --> 00:41:49,680 because it is getting bigger? 460 00:41:50,620 --> 00:41:55,120 I just not going to get any smaller, there's a lot of misconceptions we don't belong in 461 00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:58,720 town, so we have to get where we have to get, so what's your take on that, please? 462 00:42:00,340 --> 00:42:05,180 Thank you for the question to you, Mr. Warden to Councillor Woodner and the rest of council. 463 00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:13,140 The TMP formalizes many of the practices the county has been exercising over many, many 464 00:42:13,140 --> 00:42:18,380 years, and that's the guidance of the Transportation Association of Canada or otherwise known as 465 00:42:18,380 --> 00:42:26,220 tack manuals for lane widths, shoulder widths, general roadway design geometry and design 466 00:42:26,220 --> 00:42:32,660 features depending on the classification of a roadway. So for example, arterial roads have 467 00:42:32,660 --> 00:42:37,800 wider lanes and wider shoulders and collector roads or minor arterial roads, all which are 468 00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:44,640 sufficient enough to accommodate agricultural equipment that does create a challenge in urban 469 00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:52,440 areas once curb and gutter are are installed. And so for example in the village of Fingle Reconstruction, 470 00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:59,140 our design team staff and the consultant heard loud and clear from the community in regards 471 00:42:59,140 --> 00:43:06,180 to the challenges of agricultural equipment. What it had transpired in Fingle specifically was in 472 00:43:06,180 --> 00:43:13,260 the pre-design phase, cyclolanes were incorporated into the design consistent with the TMP's recommendations. 473 00:43:14,660 --> 00:43:22,420 Council did not support cycling master plan at this time and they were subsequently removed from Fangle and it created this 474 00:43:22,420 --> 00:43:23,100 potential 475 00:43:23,100 --> 00:43:23,980 challenge 476 00:43:23,980 --> 00:43:26,560 So the design team is going to 477 00:43:27,340 --> 00:43:31,640 Reload look at at the design of Fangle and have already committed to 478 00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:41,080 Accommodating larger of vehicle equipment moves through incorporating laybys or parking bays in strategic areas on every approach 479 00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:49,220 It should be noted that some of these towns had always had restricted areas where 480 00:43:49,220 --> 00:43:51,920 curb and gutter had been present for many, many years. 481 00:43:53,460 --> 00:43:59,820 These are shorter stretches of roads that anybody who lives in these, although there are 482 00:43:59,820 --> 00:44:03,900 towns and villages and populated areas in our rural areas, they're familiar with agricultural 483 00:44:03,900 --> 00:44:04,580 equipment. 484 00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:09,600 They see them a couple times a year, predominantly, and other times a year as well. 485 00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:12,960 In my experience, most people are courteous. 486 00:44:14,090 --> 00:44:22,880 The messaging and staff has worked with the OFA to develop a logo, share the road flag, and there was a flag raising. 487 00:44:23,580 --> 00:44:31,000 Our education to inform the public on how they should treat slow moving large equipment for their own safety and safety of others. 488 00:44:31,580 --> 00:44:33,860 That education campaign should be ongoing. 489 00:44:33,860 --> 00:44:43,460 The TMP specifically references that road design should accommodate agricultural equipment so it'll be a focus of staff going forward to ensure that those needs are met. 490 00:44:44,360 --> 00:44:56,540 However, it will be a balance going forward because at the same time the public is seeking a change in roadside environment design when they enter in populated areas to attempt to lower speed limits. 491 00:44:56,540 --> 00:44:59,960 And one of the best tools we have is to 492 00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:21,480 To reduce the width of travel lanes that will inherently slow people down. And so we're taking a bit of a hybrid solution here where we're going to have restricted areas to reinforce that message to the majority of the traveling public, while still having design features that to accommodate the larger agricultural government. 493 00:45:25,260 --> 00:45:30,440 I guess I like to address some of that as well, directed at the Shedden. 494 00:45:32,020 --> 00:45:36,000 If you look at before and after pictures, nothing changed. 495 00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:39,480 The road with the still the same as it was before. 496 00:45:40,220 --> 00:45:44,400 The only thing that did change was there's a race curb on the west side of the road that 497 00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:47,420 wasn't there before, but it was parking before. 498 00:45:47,740 --> 00:45:53,600 So vehicles could have been parked in that spot and created the same challenge as what was 499 00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:56,000 shown in a staged photo op. 500 00:45:59,220 --> 00:46:03,360 So there are challenges, but nothing in shed and 501 00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:10,800 changed from before. It's the same with as it was. And that'll be the same in 502 00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:14,980 fingernails. Well, we have a lot of areas where we have various heights of 503 00:46:14,980 --> 00:46:20,860 curves, different configuration of curves. And right now we have square 504 00:46:20,860 --> 00:46:26,660 curves where I think people think they're tapered curves because there's an extra flow to asphalt 505 00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:33,720 that is hidden about that much of the raised curve. So when we put those curves back, we're 506 00:46:33,720 --> 00:46:40,080 talking about doing an angled curve curve of some sort instead of a square curve because 507 00:46:40,620 --> 00:46:47,560 people recognize that as an impediment which it was at some point in the past too. So 508 00:46:48,300 --> 00:47:00,040 Yeah, and there are alternative routes that are only going to increase travel time by 5-10 minutes at the most for any industrial or agricultural equipment. 509 00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:13,300 And myself, I'm retired farmer, I understand it, but there are, we have to look at what the greater good of the community is as well as the farming community. 510 00:47:13,300 --> 00:47:16,120 We're trying to find some happy medium. 511 00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:21,760 It's not going to make everybody happy where we recognize that. 512 00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:24,300 But with when you're looking at growth, 513 00:47:24,300 --> 00:47:31,040 it's going to increase the population of Fingle on Shedden by several 514 00:47:31,040 --> 00:47:35,100 fold, probably another three or four thousand. 515 00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:39,460 So we'll be at the size of Donald Dutton at some point. 516 00:47:39,460 --> 00:47:46,680 and we have to look at this as being an 80-year investment, 60 minimum, probably 80-year investment, 517 00:47:46,860 --> 00:47:52,120 and we have to look at what that 80-years looks like, not just what today looks like. 518 00:47:53,560 --> 00:48:05,340 But there are that post is unfortunate because it does put farming in a bad light to some extent. 519 00:48:05,340 --> 00:48:11,980 We can see by some of the comments after that, that's, when you do stuff like that, you need 520 00:48:11,980 --> 00:48:17,080 to understand what the consequences of those posts are, and I don't think it really 521 00:48:17,500 --> 00:48:24,920 put a cultural, a real good light for the, for the rural, or not the residential areas 522 00:48:24,920 --> 00:48:28,640 of our community that somewhat took offense to it. 523 00:48:30,980 --> 00:48:32,160 Go ahead, Councillor Winnard. 524 00:48:32,720 --> 00:48:36,280 Yes, but as to clarify, you're saying nothing changed in the real profile, but are the 525 00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:37,620 Curb is the same as they were before? 526 00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:42,440 No, the West Side Curb was a rolled up curve 527 00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:47,900 onto a paved area and down it turned into grass at some point. 528 00:48:48,820 --> 00:48:52,140 It's the, there is paved there at the very intersection, 529 00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:54,560 but the pavement did continue on down for a while. 530 00:48:54,740 --> 00:48:56,620 And that doesn't exist now, it's now grass. 531 00:48:57,580 --> 00:49:02,780 But the thing is anybody can still roll up. 532 00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:05,120 You can roll into a driveway and stop 533 00:49:05,120 --> 00:49:11,660 and wait. There's lots of opportunities on there to stop and wait. You can pull off into a driveway, 534 00:49:12,120 --> 00:49:20,080 you can roll up on the curb, like to pick up in the picture. That's not only the question. It's 535 00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:25,960 not only the question for a tractor to roll up on that curb as well. The tractors are built to go 536 00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:31,260 over washouts, combine school, or washouts all the time. It's the same difference as rolling up 537 00:49:31,260 --> 00:49:40,380 a curb. So I wish the farming community would understand that this our communities are built 538 00:49:40,380 --> 00:49:48,120 for both residents and their culture and they have to, I understand they're in a hurry 539 00:49:48,120 --> 00:49:54,680 that's a short time window, but do consideration be given to the public as well? 540 00:49:57,300 --> 00:50:01,520 Thank you for that. I am a huge fan of the rollover curbs because you've got a $15,000 or $20,000 541 00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:05,240 our tire and you paint the side wall because you hit one of those square curves. You're not going 542 00:50:05,240 --> 00:50:10,060 to be happy. I think to me they work better, but that's my opinion, but I do run this big equipment 543 00:50:10,060 --> 00:50:10,960 and I know what can do to you. 544 00:50:15,900 --> 00:50:17,940 Anything further on to the pasture plan? 545 00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:21,120 If that'll call the vote, 546 00:50:21,180 --> 00:50:25,280 call in favor. Motion carries. Congratulations, Peter. 547 00:50:29,180 --> 00:50:30,140 And adjournment. 548 00:50:31,040 --> 00:50:38,700 Result that we do now adjourn at 2.10 pm to meet again on December 11th, 2025 at 9.30 am. 549 00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:41,140 We'll wear a seconder, please. 550 00:50:42,700 --> 00:50:44,860 Wetner and Latham, all in favor. 551 00:50:45,820 --> 00:50:46,660 Motion carries. 552 00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:52,900 We need to go up now again again. 553 00:50:54,960 --> 00:50:57,860 So we're going to take a five minute break while they reset.