[0:05] I'm Mayor Mandy Martin, and I call this township of
[0:08] Crammy special council meeting. Friday, January 24 at order.
[0:19] We are meeting at the Keeler center and there is
[0:21] some hybrid or Zoom connection going on. For people as
[0:25] well. As we gather, we would like to formally recognize
[0:30] the traditional keepers of this land and specifically our neighbors
[0:34] of the Alderville First Nation, we respectfully acknowledge that Crammy
[0:38] Township is located on the Mississauga Ashinabic territory. The traditional
[0:43] territory of the Mississauga. Grammy township respectfully acknowledges that the
[0:49] Mississauga nations are the collective stewards and caretakers of these
[0:53] lands and waters in perpetuity, and they continue to maintain
[0:58] this responsibility to ensure their health and integrity for generations
[1:02] to come. Item three, recording equipment. In accordance with bylaw
[1:08] 20 20 17, members of the public are to advise
[1:11] the mayor or the clerk of the use of devices
[1:14] for transcribing or recording the proceedings of open session by
[1:18] auditory or visual means prior to the meeting. Item four
[1:23] agenda, question period. Have we any questions submitted? Item five,
[1:30] confirmation of our agenda. And the resolution reads, be it
[1:33] resolved, that council approved the agenda. As presented. Could I
[1:36] move her into second, or. Please. Move to Hamilton second.
[1:42] Any discussion. All in favor? Aye, Arthur. I Hamilton ice
[1:50] driver benign. Martin I. The resolution is carried. Have any
[1:59] members of council, any declarations of conflict. By their pecuniary
[2:03] or otherwise, to declare. Seeing none. We will have opening
[2:10] comments regarding our budget deliberations this morning from our treasurer
[2:14] rub nadim. Please proceed. Thank you through your madam. Merit
[2:20] to the members of council. Good morning, everybody. This is
[2:24] part two of. Our budget meetings for 2025, where we
[2:28] are reviewing all the issue papers that have been submitted.
[2:31] By the departments. When we met last time we covered
[2:35] up until the recreation. And parts and recreation issue papers.
[2:40] So we'll be starting with facilities, which is Fac. 125,
[2:44] which is the first issue paper to be reviewed. Thank
[2:47] you. And the resolution reads, be it resolved, that council
[2:56] approve, deny or defer this budget request of $8,000 funded
[3:02] through reserves to repair the Colburn town clock. Could I
[3:05] move her? Into second or please. And then discussion. Second
[3:13] scrabber. Discussion. This is an upper limit, is
[3:23] that correct? This is an upper limit for this. Yes.
[3:33] Upper limit. Okay. Pardon me. Yeah, it was on last
[3:39] year's budget, et cetera, was dropped. There may be other
[3:43] ways to cut costs. And of course, we are encouraging
[3:45] all departments to be innovative. And examine all options. Is
[3:53] there any discussion on this? Is this pro or con?
[3:58] Joel. Through you, Madam mayor. Maybe. I guess to rub
[4:04] out. I'm just curious. I think last year when this
[4:06] came to us, it was proposed to come out of
[4:08] taxation, and I see this. Here. It's reserves. Are you
[4:12] able to say what reserve it's getting pulled from, potentially?
[4:16] Sure. So it's coming out from the Colburn town hall
[4:19] reserves, the same reserves that. Were referred to last time
[4:22] we and we met for the filing. For all the
[4:28] record management. Yes. Last year it was proposed to be
[4:31] funded through taxation. This year. The way the issue paper
[4:34] was brought forward, it is to be funded through reserves
[4:36] for 8000. It'll be the Quoburn Town hall resource. Yes,
[4:42] deputy mayor Arthur. And if I may, through you to
[4:48] rub up rubb. What is our reserve amount in that?
[4:51] Account. So it was about 90,000 before we actually funded
[4:57] the other project from it, so I believe the cost
[5:00] of that was about 10,000, but with the understanding that
[5:02] it could be more than that. It was at that
[5:06] amount. So we have to take the 10,000 off of
[5:08] the 90. So about 80, roughly. Thank you. And if
[5:13] I may. I 100% agree. We've got to look at
[5:19] covering costs. And on the other side, of it is.
[5:21] How long do we let a building look at? It's
[5:24] something not working. People coming into the municipality. I'm not
[5:29] saying that they all are going to look high and
[5:30] see the clock, but. On the same side. If we're
[5:32] not looking after things for long periods of time, that's
[5:35] not good for us either. So with that amount being
[5:38] in reserves, I'm going to say I agree to proceed
[5:42] with it this year. Are you moving that?
[5:52] Scriber. I will second that. Any further discussion. All in
[5:59] favor? Aye, Arthur. I hamilton. Ice driver.
[6:09] Naveen eggman. I'm Andy Martin. So it carries eight AB
[6:16] facilities. Report 225 Castleton Town hall, brickwork. Be it resolved,
[6:22] that council approved, denied or defer this budget request for
[6:25] $30,000 for the Castleton town hall brickwork funded through taxation.
[6:30] Could I have a mover? Into seconder, please. Moved Hamilton
[6:34] second scriber. Discussion. Yay or nay, folks?
[6:44] I will. Go ahead. It is time to do the
[6:48] pointing on some of that and even some of the
[6:50] bricks, actually. Have to be replaced. It's another one of
[6:53] these. Well, do you fix it or get. Rid of
[6:55] it, and we can't get rid of it, so we
[6:57] got to fix it. Councilor Hamilton. Thank you, Madam Mayor.
[7:02] Through you to the rest of council, as the daughter
[7:04] of a bricklayer. I looked at that and I'm like,
[7:07] we have to fix that sooner. Rather than later. Okay.
[7:17] Do we have a mover? I will move that we
[7:22] repair the building. For an upper limit of $20,000.
[7:34] Do we have a secondary. Please note that the resolution
[7:36] is for $30,000. Second Hamilton for 30,000.
[7:46] Right. Are we adjusting the number? To what? It's the
[7:49] ask. Deputy mayor Arthur.
[8:00] Thank you. And if I may, as one follow up.
[8:03] Can you just confirm the corner that this is at?
[8:05] Is this anything to do with the north? Side and
[8:07] the slope roof problems we've had before where all the
[8:09] water was going in. That is now fixed. Three you,
[8:18] Madam Mayor, to members of council, specifically deputy mayor Arthur.
[8:22] My understanding is there is some. Brickwork on the side,
[8:24] but majority of this is at the front door that's
[8:27] falling. Off. Yes, I do want to state it is
[8:31] in the report that this is a heritage building as
[8:33] well, so it's prudent that it's be fixed and maintained
[8:37] as it should. Any further discussion. All in favor? Aye,
[8:45] Arthur. Aye. Hamilton, ice driver. Ben Egman? Aye. Mark Nye.
[8:52] The resolution is carried. Eight AC facilities report 325, counsel
[8:59] floor. Repair. The resolution reads, be it resolved that council
[9:02] approve, deny or defer this budget request for $10,000 for
[9:07] the Castleton town hall floor repair, funded through tax. Taxation.
[9:11] Could I have a mover in a second, or. Please.
[9:14] Move, scriber. To start discussion all second. Discussion, Mr. Van
[9:23] eggman. No. There's a lot of things in this township
[9:29] that needs upgrading before the floor and the. Town hall
[9:37] there, or whatever we want to call that upstairs. There
[9:41] are some raw areas, but it doesn't need to be.
[9:43] It's not a priority. Any further comments? Do you want
[9:48] to make a motion? Motion to deny. Yes, I'll second
[9:55] that. Building is beautiful, and I'm glad we're getting the
[10:00] front of it repaired, but. Just in the essence of
[10:03] prudence. I don't think it's the right time. To do
[10:05] the floor. It's a shame because it's a beautiful building,
[10:07] but I'll second that. In any further discussion. All in
[10:14] favor of turning this down? I. Am. Okay, ice driver.
[10:23] Benign. Martin I the resolution. Do not proceed with. This
[10:29] is carried eight b. Transportation services public works issue paper
[10:35] 125 2025. Gravel crushing. And the resolution reads, be it
[10:40] resolved, that council approve, deny or defer this budget request
[10:44] to fund. $75,000 for gravel crushing, funded through taxation. Could
[10:49] I remove her into second or. Please. Move to an
[10:52] eggman. Second, Hamilton. Discussion. I need a motion. Maybe I
[11:02] just have a very quick question on the paper. There's
[11:09] a line item for the rehabilitation that Tim and Phil.
[11:13] I'm just curious. Like, from my own understanding. What that
[11:17] consists of. Through the ministry. We have to do some
[11:25] rehabilitation on the pit. In the yearly and it's reported
[11:29] basically to the ministry. So part of it is, along
[11:33] with the agravel and nagra produced, we have to do.
[11:35] Some rehab. So along with them producing the gravel, there
[11:39] is rehab that's done every year. For the pit. Yeah,
[11:43] thanks for that. I just wasn't sure.
[12:08] I. Hamilton ice driver benigmund. Aye, martin, I.
[12:18] Voted to approve eight BB public works. Workswalk replacement. Be
[12:26] it resolved, the council approve, deny or defer this budget
[12:28] request to fund $25,000 from taxation for the replacement of
[12:33] the crosswalk. Could I move her into seconder, please? I
[12:36] will move just for discussion at this point. Second. Discussion.
[12:45] Deputy mayor. Thank you. And if I may so this
[12:48] one's concerning to me just as what are we replacing
[12:51] it with? Because the concern that I have is this
[12:54] crosswalk. I don't think we've had any serious accidents, but
[12:58] I'll tell you. Sometimes in the afternoon, it's not bright
[13:01] enough. I don't know if it's. Not loud enough, it's
[13:03] not bright enough. Are we looking at something? To better
[13:09] the area there. Like a larger one, louder one, brighter
[13:13] one. What are we looking at? We're looking at an
[13:17] r 920 MX. It's got rfbs that's. Actually flashing beacons
[13:23] on it. It's a solar powered, if you want to
[13:25] look. At one. It's going across some lake Ridge Chrysler
[13:27] and Port Hope. They've got the same setup that we're
[13:29] looking at it through, named the companies through Carmont and
[13:32] goes through ats. So that's we're looking at and taking
[13:35] off. That. So if there's heavy equipment or something going
[13:39] through, Sandra. That it'll be too going. So there's flashing,
[13:43] so it's more prevalent. Basically coming in instead of just
[13:45] the little lights on top. So we're looking at the
[13:47] same thing as in port hope that they did for
[13:50] it, and it does have the flash and beacons with
[13:53] the button, and it's a solar pallet with a solar
[13:55] powered with. A backup electric. So, Tim, this is the
[14:00] one in front of the bank. I was all along
[14:07] thinking it was the corner one, which is a bigger
[14:09] problem. Because you can pull up to the crosswalk there
[14:13] and not see any traffic coming. So I'm not. Sure
[14:19] that will have to be addressed at some point, and
[14:21] the same as the crosswalk that comes across the park
[14:25] and enters. Onto. Would that be Percy? I'm not even
[14:28] sure what that would be like in the middle of
[14:31] across the dentist office. And I think maybe we could
[14:35] have that one joined to the one at the corner.
[14:36] But the one at the corner is too far up,
[14:39] so you can't see the traffic coming. I was just
[14:42] confused. And now it's clear because it says highway too.
[14:49] King street. Yeah. There's a couple of different spots, but
[14:58] we're starting with the King street. One, too. That there's
[15:01] been. It's been frozen a lot of times, been fixed.
[15:05] So we're starting with the king street one and then
[15:07] with new subdivisions coming on as well, there's going to
[15:08] have to be further crosswalks. And look at what design
[15:12] is going to have to be is further even down
[15:13] towards foxtale on. King street, coming across from Foxtail south
[15:19] there. Getting across to the sidewalk on the other side.
[15:22] So there's a number of places that we could start
[15:24] putting the crosswalks also. Legislation of seeing where exactly and
[15:28] what type of crosswalk has to be put there. But
[15:31] the intention of this one, councilman, was the King street
[15:35] one in front of the bank. But if you guys
[15:37] want to put $50,000, we can put another one. Across.
[15:44] Or we can switch that one or put it there.
[15:48] Or leave the one on King Street. I will add
[15:52] that the one that is at the bank. Was. Designed.
[16:00] By. It was in place by a welder. It's timely
[16:04] change that one to get. Up to where everything sets
[16:10] back, basically. Yes, Councilor Hamilton. Thank you, Madam
[16:20] Mayor. Through you to the rest of council and staff,
[16:23] I agree that we need to replace. This crosswalk, but
[16:28] I would like to echo councilor van Eggman's concerns about
[16:31] the entire area around Victoria park, that is. A very
[16:36] high risk area for all traffic, pedestrian, car, you name
[16:40] it. I think we need at some point to put
[16:43] that high on the priority list. As needing a solution
[16:48] or multiple solutions, if I may. So what do we
[16:52] have here? The resolution is to accept. So that is
[16:57] our resolution. It's on the floor to approve. All in
[17:02] favor? Aye. Arts. I, hamilton ice driver bennigma.
[17:14] Martin I. It is proved eight BC Public Works report
[17:18] 325. A new half ton truck. The resolution reads, be
[17:22] it resolved, that council approved deny or defer. This budget
[17:26] request of $50,000 to purchase a new half ton truck
[17:31] funded through taxation. Could I have a move in a
[17:34] second, or. Please, for discussion. Moved Hamilton. Second van Eggman.
[17:41] Discussion. Deputy Merritt. Thank you. And through you two. I'll
[17:50] do this to rub up first because I spoke to
[17:51] her on this. I was wondering. If we have a
[17:55] map of some sort that goes, that shows us the
[17:58] amount of vehicles that we have thank you. In each
[18:01] one of the departments. It just allows us a visual
[18:03] as to how many we have, what needs to be.
[18:05] Can we share something? Whatever, and I ask for it.
[18:08] For the fire department as well, because when they talk
[18:10] about numbers on the trucks. Yes, we're, somewhat familiar, but
[18:13] if you've got a visual. With a number. What's it
[18:16] north? What's it south? The same thing with some. Of
[18:18] these snowflake trucks, et cetera. Even the half tons and
[18:21] parks should be included. In this as well. Just allows
[18:24] us. Allows me, anyway. I don't know, maybe arrested council.
[18:27] Doesn't have the concern. How many trucks do we have?
[18:31] Yes, you see it on our asset management list, but
[18:34] it's not showing just where they all are. So you've
[18:37] got something? Yes, we do have a list that was
[18:42] used for another project. Trackmatics. That list all of the
[18:44] fleet. It doesn't have the age on it again, we
[18:47] can put something more. Comprehensive together. Or it does. It
[18:50] has a year. Sorry. My bad. Okay. It has a
[18:55] year of the vehicle, so I can just regulate this.
[18:58] 1 second.
[19:37] Okay, while everybody's studying this, let's keep moving. What are
[19:44] the questions that you have? Deputy mayor Arthur. As a
[19:50] follow up to that. So this 2009. Again. So which
[19:54] one would that be on this particular list? And the
[19:58] other thing is, what are we looking at that we're
[20:00] looking at a half. Ton for $50,000. Not that I'm
[20:03] picking on anyone here. But a year ago, I bought
[20:07] a half ton. That can be the most basic of
[20:08] all basics. And there was nowhere near. So do we
[20:11] have privilege pricing that we're getting this, that? We know
[20:13] that we can be at $50,000. I just would like
[20:16] to have a follow up, please. Yes, we have a
[20:19] quote right here. We did a lot of research to
[20:21] find the best deal. We can and actually went to
[20:24] a dealership that will give us a municipal discount. And
[20:28] we have all the paperwork right here. We're also looking
[20:31] at a basic. Some of them, even now, is you
[20:34] can still get inventory that's on the ground for 0%
[20:36] financing we've done went down that. Path if there is
[20:39] something there. But we do have all of the, not
[20:42] all of the dealerships. Will offer you a municipal discount.
[20:45] Some of them will give you. A fleet discount, but
[20:51] will now give you a municipal discount. Fortunate. There is
[20:55] one that will give us a municipal discount. In the
[20:57] truck that he had there. Was just at $50,000. For.
[21:01] That was a four x four, brand new. That was
[21:04] a 2020. It was between 2025. GM. That we're looking
[21:10] at. Because it's going to be with what he has
[21:13] on the ground.
[21:30] Any other questions? Yes. Council,
[21:39] shredder. Yeah, through you, Madam Mayor. Tim, am I correct
[21:43] to say the nine is not on the list just
[21:45] because it's not in service right now. I don't think
[21:47] it's on here, but maybe I'm. Not seeing it right.
[21:51] Yeah, it's out of service. Yes. The truck that we're
[21:55] requesting to replace it is out of service and like
[21:58] the report says it is used beyond. Eight to nine
[22:04] years beyond its expected useful life at this point. And
[22:07] it's beyond the repair stage. That's why it had to
[22:10] be pulled out of service. There's also a 2011 that's
[22:14] rusted out completely. We can trade. If you want to
[22:22] save, we can take one of parks and recs or.
[22:24] Building departments trucks and get them a car or something
[22:27] like we're willing to work with. Whatever has to be
[22:29] done. And we're willing to take a four cylinder as
[22:32] opposed to an eight cylinder if it's going to be
[22:33] patrolling, so we're willing to work. With it at ever.
[22:38] I think what should be emphasized here is that some
[22:40] of these trucks are in bad shape. They could be
[22:48] pulled right now, frankly. So the other thing that I'm
[22:52] really pleased about is the innovation and the pricing and.
[22:55] Looking at the options, and, senator, you're talking about an
[22:59] inventory of all the vehicles and. So on. And we
[23:01] look at each other and compare across, and I think
[23:04] that is what we have to do. We have to
[23:05] look across all departments and look at our inventory and
[23:09] how we can. Maximize use between departments as well, and
[23:14] I think that's what's happening here. I think that's what's
[23:18] being looked at. I think 50,000 comes with an actual
[23:22] quote. An actual offer. Anyway. Yes, Councilor Hamilton and then
[23:31] councilor van Eggman and then councilor Luxon. Shriver. I'm sorry.
[23:40] I'll kick this off. Thank you, Madam Mayor. To the
[23:43] rest of council, I am in. Favor of upgrading this
[23:46] fleet. I think we've known since I was elected that
[23:50] the fleet for the transportation department is. Aging would be
[23:54] a polite word. It looks like the homework has been
[23:58] done. And I have to admit, and I said this
[24:00] at our last meeting that when I first went through
[24:02] these issue papers and saw that they had identified a
[24:05] potential purchase for $20,000 less than what the parks and
[24:09] rec issue paper identified. I am in favor of us
[24:16] making this purchase and allowing it to move forward. Yeah.
[24:23] When they've got to hand me down and it's still
[24:25] in use and it's one of their better trucks. And
[24:30] when the MPO sets up at 401 and when you
[24:32] got to drive around. And I know what that's all
[24:35] about. I take a different road. And our works department.
[24:38] Shouldn't have to do that, and I know that's happening.
[24:42] May I just say, the Lovesham family was very famous.
[24:49] In Durham, actually, in what is now Clarington. Lufton was
[24:53] a judge, and his son was an MP and then
[24:56] an MP. And you would look very much like the
[25:03] sun. So. I'm sorry, that's from. Years ago. My old
[25:06] Rolodex is slipping. Thank you for that. The only comment
[25:10] through you, madam Air. Yeah. Maybe. Can't say I'm new
[25:15] anymore, but it's really valuable for me. To see the
[25:18] inventory. And a lot of these trucks are really old,
[25:19] so all the questions are just. Like the hardware stuff
[25:24] is sometimes hard for me to wrap my head around,
[25:26] but the 50K is a tremendous deal, and we'd be
[25:29] remiss not to take advantage of it. Because. It's essentially
[25:32] almost half price, assuming. The municipal discount can come through,
[25:36] so. Yeah. Well done, guys. We got eight and eleven
[25:41] s and 13s on here. It's now 2025. So well
[25:45] done. Okay. Do we have a resolution for approval? Moved.
[25:53] Van eggman. Second, Hamilton. Any further discussion. All
[26:03] in favor? Aye, Arthur. I Hamilton Ice driver Benigmund. Aye,
[26:11] Martin. I. It is approved eight BD public works. Single
[26:17] axel plow reserve transfer. Be it resolved, that council approved,
[26:22] deny or defer this budget. Request to allocate $75,000 to
[26:27] reserves in 2025 using taxation revenue for a purchase of
[26:32] a single axle plow to be replaced in 2026. If
[26:37] I have a mover into seconder, please? Moved Hamilton second
[26:42] scriber. Discussion. Yes. Thank you, madam Mayor. My question
[26:52] is regarding the numbers in the body of the issue
[26:55] paper. Allocate 70,000 them, but later it's requesting 75,000. Can
[27:03] we get clarification on whether it's 70 or 75? Yes,
[27:08] my apologies on that. That should be 75. That's what
[27:11] the resolution reads is 75. It shouldn't say 70 on
[27:14] top of the first line of the issue paper. It
[27:16] should. Be 75. By May mandy. This is not a
[27:26] new truck, though, is it? This is just putting money
[27:29] into reserves. Talk to Rubb. There's about 330,000. In the
[27:33] road equipment reserves currently. So we're looking to order a
[27:39] truck. That would be, hopefully if we get ordered for
[27:44] winter of next year to get through with the four
[27:46] and five single locks that we have currently. And that
[27:49] would be hopefully becoming by December of this year beginning.
[27:53] So for, hopefully for snow season if we get something
[27:55] through and ordered. So it's also coming down the pipe
[27:59] that once that is, the reserves will be gone, basically.
[28:02] So we're looking to. Because down the road, it'll be
[28:04] looking. For tandem axle. Next we'll be in building the
[28:08] reserves for that, so that's. Why we just put the
[28:10] 75,000. That would cover the cost. It's around $350,000. For
[28:14] an ordered truck that we're sitting at right now. If
[28:17] we get it. Order. Could I ask? Is the order
[28:24] going in now so that we're going to be bound
[28:26] to it? Because right now, There are a lot of
[28:31] trucks out there that are with less than 20,000k on
[28:35] them that could be adopted to what we need now.
[28:38] I know we need to plow on. Right. And it
[28:41] has to have a spreader or no spreader. We're constantly
[28:46] looking at different options, Ed, and researching. The Internet with
[28:52] what's available there. And the problem is, it's a single
[28:55] axle. Snow plow truck. And with the new subdivisions and
[28:58] everything we have coming on, we need that. Single axle.
[29:03] And they are out there. But the whole problem is
[29:06] getting the rate spring weight in them. The front end
[29:11] and the rear end for hauling the sand and everything.
[29:15] It's kind of a specialty truck in the single axle.
[29:18] Lots of single axles, but. Not with the springs and
[29:22] what you need available in the truck and when. It
[29:27] comes with that truck. Everything's all plumbed and everything. It's
[29:31] hard to find a single axle that'll actually do what
[29:34] we need to. Do going into the future. Yeah. The
[29:41] only question I had. I guess it's farew Bob through
[29:46] Madam air. I'm just curious. Is there any other mechanism
[29:49] we could pull the money from? Like, can we use
[29:50] the gas tax? Or is there any other reserve that
[29:53] we could use? That's for sure. I mean, we can
[29:55] look at the gas tax funding. I'm not entirely sure.
[30:00] My guess is that, yes, we can use the funding,
[30:02] but I can confirm that for us if this could
[30:04] be funded through. Gas tax funding. I also like to
[30:09] mention that. As Tim pointed out, there's $330,000 left on
[30:15] the reserves, and if we make the issue paper is
[30:18] about just transferring additional 75,000 into reserves. So when we're
[30:21] ready to make that purchase. There are funds available and
[30:24] that we're not going to deplete the reserves completely after
[30:26] this purchase. But, yeah, I can look into the gas
[30:29] tax. Funding. I'd like to add, too. Actually, the truck
[30:33] we are replacing is, well, the oldest one. Is an
[30:37] four and the other one is an five where every
[30:40] time we go out, we're. Constantly fixing it, nursing it
[30:43] through for the next storm. But the one that we
[30:48] do actually have, there's absolutely no floors left in the
[30:51] truck. So this is definitely something we need. To put
[30:56] in place. Capable of decision. Cokes capable of a motion
[31:05] here. Move by Mr. Van Eggman to approve. Is there
[31:12] a secondary? Yeah. The only thing I'd add is I'd
[31:21] like to explore ways to not. Take the money from
[31:23] taxation if we can do it. I'm in favor of.
[31:29] Supporting it. But if we can find alternative ways to
[31:32] fund it, like the gas tax and I'd be in
[31:34] favor of that. All in favor?
[31:45] Aye, Arthur. I. Hamilton ice driver benigmund. Aye. Martin, I.
[31:55] The resolution is approved with caveats for alternate investigation of
[31:59] funding. Construction. Hca construction.
[32:10] Construction projects. Be it resolved that council approve, deny or
[32:13] defer this budget request for all construction projects to be
[32:17] funded through OSIF gas tax funding and taxation. Could I
[32:21] have a mover? Into secondary, please. Moved Hamilton. Second van
[32:29] ignited. Discussion. The issue paper outlines the projects that are
[32:34] proposed. Yes.
[32:45] Thank you, Madam Mayor. Through you to the rest of
[32:47] council. The funding options are listed, and I'm wondering if
[32:54] we have any kind of a breakdown. Of how much
[32:57] will come from where? It's actually on. The second last
[33:04] page of the issue paper, right under financial impact. It
[33:09] says the following projects will be funded through OSF grant
[33:11] for $153,763 the gas tax reserves for 350,000 and taxation
[33:18] for 757 849. You're welcome.
[33:29] If I may rub, can we review that one more
[33:31] time? Because in the financial impact, it says 861,000. And
[33:36] those three figures certainly don't add up to 861,000. Or
[33:40] over a million. Yes, because that is because. If you
[33:47] look at the summary of the issue papers, we break
[33:50] out the construction projects and the rehabilitation and the sidewalk
[33:54] replacement. So they are all listed at two different categories.
[33:57] That's what we've done historically is we like to break
[34:00] out the cost on the summary paper, so if you
[34:03] add the 861 612 plus the two, plus the two,
[34:06] that would add up. To the number. Thank you. I'm
[34:09] going to add a bomb here. I'd like to see
[34:15] the downtown streetscape addressed and completed. The share I would
[34:21] like to see the. And again, it's under safety as
[34:24] well. The curves at the bottom of maybe lane. Finished
[34:30] as was originally proposed. We sat on this project for
[34:34] six years, and that's where the money that we originally
[34:37] got from the province was supposed to go. And it
[34:41] disappeared here, there and everywhere. I would like to see
[34:44] the downtown. Project. Streetscape finished. In the range of $50,000.
[34:53] So in terms of construction or how you put it,
[34:56] under sidewalks or you do safety or whatever, There are
[35:02] any number of ways we can assign it and assess
[35:05] it, but it has to be completed. As far as
[35:09] I'm concerned. So. I proposely add $50,000 to the
[35:18] construction budget one way or the other for the downtown
[35:21] streetscape completion. What we're trying to do with the sidewalks.
[35:30] Is right now we're working on the east end, so
[35:33] as we come into the town, Because I had a
[35:36] lot of complaints last year about weeds and things growing
[35:39] up through the sideblocks. So what we're doing is. We
[35:44] started this year right around the doctor's office where we
[35:47] left off previous three years. Ago or two years ago,
[35:50] and I'm trying to take it right down to the
[35:52] east. That way. As you approach Colburn, you're coming in
[35:57] and we're trying to. Get everything set up so that
[35:59] we can work towards some crosswalks, some signage, and make
[36:04] everything safe, because I've really been noticing that the traffic
[36:08] coming into town, coming from the east. Basically, it's crazy.
[36:14] We've got no windows for snow removal anymore. I can't
[36:17] believe how busy it is uptown. So to me, this
[36:21] is very important that we get everything lined up with
[36:24] our sidebox, our curbs. And so on. So once we
[36:28] can get our signs in place and maybe get some
[36:30] radar signs, and then bring it into town and get
[36:33] the proper crossbox in place and then bring them. Around
[36:37] the park and maybe put some crosswalks in there, but
[36:40] that's what the intent is to start down that way.
[36:44] And we're almost there, basically. And we're at a point
[36:48] now where this year, where we can start making both
[36:52] sides. Look really nice. As you enter the village. It's
[36:56] not just a matter of aesthetics. It's all part of
[36:58] this crosswalk. Replacement as well, and the safety. The maybe
[37:08] lane one way traffic up is the road is chewed
[37:13] to heck and the curbs are all raw and exposed
[37:17] and people trip and carry on and whatever. It's as
[37:22] much safety as anything. It's not just. Aesthetic. I think
[37:27] that this needs to be completed, and then we can
[37:30] build on this in terms of. The whole blow of
[37:34] the traffic around Victoria park and how we have to
[37:37] once again, Pound on the county doors and get them
[37:41] to recognize that we do indeed have some issues here.
[37:45] And they keep saying there isn't enough traffic. All they
[37:48] have to do is stand there on the step. And
[37:52] watch the zoo. On some afternoons, particularly with the EDR.
[37:58] Designation that we have running through town. All of this
[38:01] matters. All of this. Which is another reason. Why that
[38:04] crosswalk has to come out. Some of the transport trucks
[38:07] are oversized and they're catching on that sign like it's.
[38:11] Nuts. We have to do it. And by the way,
[38:14] I don't see anybody else provincially. Stepping in to help
[38:17] us. So I'm done with them. We're going to do
[38:20] it ourselves. To the best of our ability and for
[38:24] the safety of our people. So. Yes, Councilor Hamilton. Thank
[38:31] you, Madam Mayor. Through you to the rest of council
[38:33] and staff, I echo your concerns about. The remaining dangling
[38:39] safety issues in the downtown core. I do think that
[38:42] they, at the very least, need to be addressed, and
[38:45] at some point. I'm in favor of beautification of that
[38:49] area as well, and making it more user friendly in
[38:52] terms of. Sitting places. And greenery. And such. So I
[39:01] would like the downtown court to stay on the radar
[39:04] for this municipality as well. If I could add that
[39:08] we do now know that the connecting link. Has nothing.
[39:14] Is owned by Crammy Township. I've talked to the county
[39:17] numerous times. And we are in possession of the connecting
[39:22] link from Ontario street to Colton. So that area in
[39:26] between is our responsibility to take care of. So what
[39:31] you're talking about from the town? Haller man. That's on
[39:34] crammy. From what I understand is what? It's our responsibility
[39:40] to take care of it, and I might add, with
[39:42] the area of the crosswalk. That is a terrible. Most
[39:47] dangerous spot in the township right now, like the curb
[39:50] work and the catch basin. Are so far out of
[39:54] elevation, it's hard to clean, it's hard to do. The
[39:57] snow work there. We're catching. There actually was an accident.
[40:04] There. The last apple, boss. And we had uptown before
[40:06] this previous one. So it's a really bad spot there,
[40:10] and we could do a lot to make it. A
[40:11] lot safer. Thank you. When the provincial government throws snap
[40:18] election, they don't have time to give us any grants.
[40:21] So I know there's no money coming in. It's a
[40:23] good move that way. For them. If it's not already
[40:28] on the floor, I'll make a motion. That we go
[40:32] ahead with what's planned and also the 50,000 added wherever
[40:36] we have to add it. To finish the downtown, but
[40:39] it should be done after. The crosswalk is done for
[40:43] sure. Arthur. Thank you. When I look at this, the
[40:49] main one is. The pulverization and base repairs. Some of
[40:56] this work was done there in the fall. My one
[40:59] concern is on Orchard Road from Big Apple. We went
[41:02] from Orchard Road, big Apple to the west. Honest to
[41:05] God, from County Road 25 to the Apple entrance is
[41:08] a disgrace. I mean, the holes and the things and
[41:10] the cost and complaints that we get and the amount
[41:12] of traffic we have. Why are we not including that
[41:15] in this? One of my questions, the other is. Last
[41:20] year we did something different. Where we had Lake Road
[41:23] and Lake Road took an awful lot. Of my time
[41:25] this past summer with constant complaints from everybody where we
[41:28] worked it up and we didn't do the surface treatment
[41:30] back. And was that really to our advantages or ways
[41:35] that we can not do that in the future? In
[41:39] that particular one. I mean, obviously we had lots of
[41:41] people concerned with. Well, I mean, we know that there
[41:44] was orchards there. We know that there was livestock there.
[41:48] Can we look at a different way of doing that,
[41:49] or is that really to our advantages to what we
[41:51] did. As I've explained numerous times. We now are to
[41:58] a point where we can actually do our construction a
[42:02] lot faster, and we have the ability. Now that we're
[42:05] in the position. Like, for example, this year we're going
[42:09] to be surface treating in June. So that gives us
[42:13] more time to get what we it took. I thought
[42:16] it would take five. Years. As I explained numerous times,
[42:18] it's taken three. So now we are in a position.
[42:22] Where we can actually plan this out. And get things
[42:26] done as we do. As far as Lake Road. The
[42:30] problem we had out there is again, we had that
[42:32] property bar. In the middle of the intersection. So that
[42:34] was a reason that we couldn't surf a street. I
[42:37] don't know if everyone was aware of that, but that
[42:39] was an issue that we had to take care of
[42:42] through other avenues. If we go back to the big
[42:46] apple there. Sandra, I totally agree. I would love to
[42:49] do something there, but again. We're working with the big
[42:56] Apple, trying to figure out what they want. Do they
[42:58] want. The water. Do they want the sewer? So that
[43:02] area should actually. Be asphalt. And therefore, I think with
[43:08] the Big Apple, the amount of traffic they have going
[43:10] in there should be input from them to assist in
[43:13] Crammy township with the traffic in there and how. It
[43:16] should be hot asphalt, maybe curb and gutter. And at
[43:19] the time we do that, we put in the sanitary
[43:22] sewers in the water main, because right now we have
[43:24] the water meat. Running. Across property. So this is kind
[43:29] of what we're waiting for. With the big Apple. We're
[43:33] in talks with them. That never seemed to go too
[43:35] far. But. This is the problem there, but I would
[43:39] definitely agree with you 100%. It's a section that needs
[43:42] to be done, but we need the big apple. In
[43:45] place. Also to decide how we're moving with the sewer
[43:49] and water. If I may, can we not do a
[43:53] simple solution from the apple back to 25? My simple.
[43:56] Terms of shaven pave. I mean, so something that's done
[43:59] on a temporary basis. Is definitely not going to until
[44:02] we get that agreement for the sewer or water, but
[44:06] at least it's something because. Some of those holes that
[44:12] are constantly, if we leave them like that, we're probably
[44:15] spending more in colpatch and staff time, et cetera, going
[44:19] there and then the potential of the lawsuits we have
[44:22] because some of them have become greaters. The whole. So
[44:26] is there something we can look at? As I say,
[44:28] as simple as a shave. And pave until we get
[44:30] in full agreement. That's not a lot of money lost.
[44:33] But maybe it's even something that the apple would change.
[44:36] If not, it's something we should do or we're going
[44:38] to be in lawsuits. 100%. I'd love to do that.
[44:42] We could use a premium regrind and. Just like we
[44:46] did on Tarot street down there. I've been watching it
[44:48] for three. Years now. It worked really well. We just
[44:52] have to do some ditching there. And again. The areas
[44:57] that we did pulverize late in the year. These were
[45:01] areas that we're going to constantly patching, putting bandaids on
[45:04] them that we no longer could fix anymore. And every
[45:07] day we patch them, we plow. The next day. All
[45:09] the material end up in the ditch. We're spending a
[45:12] lot of money on these. Spots so in my mind.
[45:16] I had them pulverized because. They're actually liabilities. They are
[45:21] not assets. Them. Sections of roads are not assets for
[45:24] us right now. They're huge. Huge liabilities. Very unsafe. I
[45:29] bought school buses. Yes. With council support. I would love
[45:36] to take these areas and just do something to get
[45:40] us through. The next couple, three, four, five years. And
[45:45] like I said, what we did with Ontario Street, I
[45:47] watched for four. It's going on four years now, so.
[45:52] I know that it would last and. It would be
[45:55] actually help us out a lot and save a lot
[45:56] of money, a lot of citywide calls, complaints, tires, rims,
[46:01] front ends. So, yeah, it would work. I'm quite confident.
[46:07] Are we at with a resolution? Yeah. If you'd like
[46:14] to throw orchard on there from 25 in, then that's.
[46:17] Definitely something. That we could. Take care of.
[46:30] Three amount of marriage members of council Debbie Mayor Arthur
[46:33] for Orchard I think we need to be cautious of
[46:35] how we proceed forward with Orchard Road. I understand that
[46:38] that section. Is in need of repair. But the big
[46:42] apple brings in over 200 buses a day. On top
[46:46] of the vehicles and on top of everything else. If
[46:48] you're going to bring a road to a grade. It
[46:50] must be a grade that's going to support the second.
[46:52] You touch it. So if you're going to touch that
[46:54] road and you're going to put something in that isn't
[46:56] up to the standard that's going to hold. We're in
[46:57] the same predicament as we are in the beginning, so
[47:00] to me, if you're going to do it, you do
[47:02] it right the first time as opposed to putting something
[47:04] on it that could potentially. Isn't going to last with
[47:07] the amount of traffic that's there in the first place
[47:09] is a connecting link to the MTO, which has a
[47:12] easement through that section. It also connects to a county
[47:14] road. So this isn't just our portion. It's also the
[47:17] portion that connects to and what that is and how
[47:20] that supports. So to me, I think there's some more
[47:22] investigation that needs to go forward before we put an
[47:25] amount. Or what we're going to do there, but that's
[47:27] my opinion. I couldn't agree more, but I just know
[47:32] that there is something that we can do. There to
[47:35] do a light pulverization. Of take it down an inch
[47:43] or whatever, level it out, do a little bit of
[47:45] ditching. That would. Save the staff time and the problems
[47:49] with the we definitely have to do something soon to
[47:53] fix the holes up there. Whatever we can do up
[47:57] there, it would be good to be able to do
[47:59] something.
[48:09] And if I may, and I agree with. What our
[48:16] Cao was saying. But on the same side, it's not
[48:19] just the big Apple. That use that road. There's lots
[48:21] of us as residents that use that road on a
[48:24] constant basis. And even these storms are going, so we're
[48:29] not going to stop that. Is it something that? Yes.
[48:32] We need to further investigate to see whether MTO or
[48:35] different ones want to participate. In this, such as the
[48:38] apple as well. But for right now, If we're going
[48:43] to put $50,000 in. For the downstairs, maybe lane. These
[48:50] graders. I mean, if anybody hasn't been through it, and
[48:53] I mean, the guys go, and do it. And I
[48:54] mean within the first rainfall or whatever. Those secretarian. It's
[48:59] awful. So we can't just leave it like that, but.
[49:02] They're constantly just filling it up in a day or
[49:04] two later or a week, depending. On what mother nature
[49:06] is doing to us is back. Somebody is going to
[49:08] get seriously hurt or some serious damage done that's going
[49:12] to cost us, so I would like to see extra.
[49:15] Money, whatever that potential may be, so. Whether we defer
[49:18] this until our next meeting and maybe staff are able
[49:21] to bring back the possibility of. What to do. A
[49:25] quick shave and pay would be. And if they come
[49:27] back and say it's? $200,000. No, I don't want to
[49:29] waste the taxpayers money. $200,000 but on the same side,
[49:33] if it's less and we can do something. Then I'm
[49:35] for that. So I would defer this until we can
[49:37] possibly come back. Maybe look at the options that you've
[49:40] asked on. Maybe lean, maybe look at the potential. Of
[49:42] what that would be from 25 to the. Apple entrance.
[49:47] For now. Then I would suggest that that be a
[49:50] separate issue paper then not to prefer all of these.
[49:53] For the sake of that. The other thing. With that
[49:58] section of road, the whole road is compromised. It needs
[50:02] a whole road, as Holly was. Trying to indicate or
[50:05] did indicate. It's not just a matter of prettying it
[50:09] up. The whole road is compromised now, every time we
[50:13] go there. And try to talk to them about water
[50:17] or sewer or. Other expanding infractions. We come away with
[50:23] something that we think we have an agreement, we think
[50:25] they're going to do it this way or they're going.
[50:28] To install a waterline along the roadway to facilitate whatever.
[50:34] Two weeks later, the water line is going squirrely all
[50:37] over the property. So we delay and we meet and
[50:41] we negotiate and we talk and we thought, what's the
[50:43] best way and for the future. It is becoming quite
[50:48] impossible. To the point where really. Get your shit together.
[50:56] Because I'm done. I couldn't agree more, but there again,
[51:00] I've been hearing these stories for 15 years. So council.
[51:09] Has to. Counsel has to make some hard decisions here.
[51:15] So that's all we ever do is wait. Well. We
[51:21] got to make a move because someone is going to
[51:23] get hurt in these spots. You guys do whatever you
[51:27] want, but if you're just going to keep waiting for
[51:28] all these things. It's never going to happen. So we
[51:36] have to do something up there. It's cost us a
[51:38] lot of money. It's a huge liability. So whether or
[51:41] not we go in there and fix the road, right?
[51:43] Or just make it so it's accessible for next couple
[51:46] of years, whatever. But we have to do something. We
[51:50] just can't keep waiting. They are our roads, and someone
[51:56] is going to. Get. We're constantly up there. Something's going
[52:00] to happen. Someone's got to take the initiative to a
[52:04] curb and gutter that put some catch. Basins in, get
[52:07] your storm sewers in, get your sanitary in and water.
[52:14] And then work it from there, but. This has got
[52:17] to happen. Landing coordinator Victoria Heffernan. Good morning, members of
[52:24] council. I just want to point out that there's a
[52:25] lot of development that is being proposed on this road,
[52:28] and we need to take that into account in consideration.
[52:34] When the Rose department designs said road so it can
[52:37] handle all of that traffic. Because it's not going to
[52:40] be just for pedestrian use or for transportation use. It's,
[52:43] also going to be for construction, so it needs to
[52:45] withhold all the weight that's. Going to be associated with
[52:49] upgrading the property, bringing in infrastructure input, installing infrastructure. And
[52:55] then also the repair that has to go afterwards at
[52:57] the cost of the developer. Thank you. Mr. Ben eggman.
[53:05] We don't have a pulverizer yet, do we? No. But
[53:14] it is. Something that for the past five years has
[53:18] been an issue. We always have to get somebody in
[53:22] to pulverize, and it's maybe a piece of machinery that
[53:26] we're going to have to. Get some quotes on. I
[53:30] know that. We bought some crazy stuff in the past
[53:34] that isn't even being used right now. So let's also.
[53:39] Get a quote. On some sort of a pulverized. It
[53:42] doesn't have to be the top of the line, but
[53:44] something that our tractors can handle. And go from there,
[53:48] because it's not just orchard. Or it's also dudley the
[53:52] rest of the way to our property line and beyond.
[53:56] Actually. So this is something that has to be done
[53:59] on more roads and seems like we are doing more
[54:02] pulverizing, and we should be. Ready for the stuff that
[54:06] comes off the 401. When they take the pavement and
[54:11] look for places to have that put. There will be
[54:15] tons and tons of material coming from the 401 when
[54:19] they redo it, so. We need to be ready for
[54:22] all that. When they start to do that work. It
[54:27] would be as simple as to go up there and
[54:29] pulverize, level it out, put a crown on the road,
[54:31] so at least the water can shed the road. That
[54:35] way, at least the water is working. The road is
[54:38] working a little bit better. Do we need to go
[54:40] in there and do a full on. Excavation in there
[54:43] now? No, we can stabilize it long enough that it's
[54:46] actually safer than what it really is, it'd be a
[54:49] matter of a couple of days. If that. And the
[54:53] other thing is with. Yes, with the pulverizers that I
[54:56] totally. Agree with what you say. Any of the equipment
[54:59] that we have bought as far as like for example,
[55:02] the Quad saw. That saw paid for itself. In a
[55:06] week. So now with some of this equipment that is
[55:10] paid for something, we use that. We're done using. I'd
[55:12] like the ability to be able to sell it and.
[55:14] Buy something like a small popularizer. We can go around
[55:18] and touch up some of these bad. Areas. Can we
[55:20] full on pulverize like the big ones do? No, because
[55:24] we would never. Get the depth. But in sections where
[55:28] we could go two inches in level at our roads,
[55:31] put a crown on them, get them working again. It
[55:33] would save this township huge. And as far as a
[55:38] pulvarizer, I have one price there last year with $30,000.
[55:42] It would have paid for itself already for the money
[55:45] we've spent on putting coal patch in that won't stabilize
[55:50] because it's impossible. When you put in coal pots, you
[55:54] need something to hold it there. And. I just need.
[56:21] Some of these things we can do are small. The
[56:25] grinder that we could have got was $30,000. Like the
[56:28] quad saw. For example. Some are old plows and stuff
[56:32] like that. Like we could get rid of the scrap
[56:35] metal. And stuff. To buy, but I need that support
[56:38] from council to go ahead, move forward with that and
[56:40] just make this happen. And I think. There's some other
[56:46] things that we could sell. Like we got to brush
[56:48] your head there. But a lot of these things, we
[56:51] could do it in house. And buy it through what
[56:56] we have. But a grinder is definitely something that. Would
[57:00] be a great option for us because we could do
[57:03] a lot with. It. Where are we at? Okay, so
[57:12] we'll do this motion in terms of what is proposed
[57:15] originally, and then Sandra is going to come back with
[57:17] another motion. To investigate. The big app drive. Okay, so
[57:24] this one is to approve. Do I have a mover?
[57:28] In a second. I'm sorry, ma'am. As far as the
[57:34] big opera, we can bring that into just maintenance and
[57:37] operations in our hard top maintenance budget. Grinding is. If
[57:45] we just had a bit extra money in our operation
[57:47] maintenance budget, we can do these things. So it doesn't
[57:51] need an issue paper. It's maintenance. But you have to
[57:56] put it somewhere. In mentioning it, that's all. And I
[58:03] agree. A department, as far as I'm concerned, has a
[58:07] budget, and they should be able to administer it. We
[58:11] can't be involved in absolutely every decision. And who's getting
[58:15] the weed whacker and who isn't. Really. This is a
[58:19] business. This is a corporation. But I think when you're
[58:23] asking for extra. Be it 50 or whatever. We need
[58:28] some justification, that's all, as we go through this. Budget.
[58:33] You're upping your budget. You're upping your budget, so we
[58:37] want to know why it doesn't have to be a
[58:39] detailed issue paper. Just come back and you're going to
[58:43] say, this much will give us so much ease. Of
[58:46] mind. We're not saying perfection, just ease of mind. Mindy
[58:51] Lane and for Orchard? For both. So this is not
[58:54] having an additional fixing onto it. This is not. Sander
[58:58] is going to make a second motion to have that
[59:01] brought back. Okay. All in favor of approval of this
[59:05] one? As it sits, as it stands. I answer?
[59:17] I Hamilton ice driver benigmund. Aye, martin, I resolution is
[59:24] approved. Sandra, would you like to. Now introduce. And then
[59:29] I would like to request. That the basic report is
[59:35] brought back. The additional request for the maybe lane concerns
[59:42] as well as options. Or options and budget costs. For
[59:48] orchard drive from 25 to apple entrance. And then. That's
[59:56] what. A motion will be. The comment is if you
[59:59] come back to us and say it's only going to
[1:00:01] be $10,000. And at that point, we can say that'll
[1:00:03] be an issue paper. Or at that point we'll say
[1:00:06] we'll increase the operation. We can make that decision at
[1:00:08] that time, but at least you have brought something back
[1:00:11] to us. As council. The thing with doing up there
[1:00:15] is we'll actually use the material that's in. The road,
[1:00:18] so I know that there's four or five inches out
[1:00:20] asphalt. So we'll reactivate that. So I'm quite confident that.
[1:00:26] It's basically, as I say, operational maintenance. And these are
[1:00:32] health and safety risks. And if we could somehow get
[1:00:36] a budget in place or. A line where we can
[1:00:38] address these issues. Without. Having to go to council and
[1:00:44] everything where I can act on these quickly and take
[1:00:47] care of them before they do cause a problem and
[1:00:48] cost us a lot of money. Thank you. I just
[1:00:52] remind you that the maybe lane one was already included
[1:00:56] in the resolution that we approved. Previously. You don't need
[1:00:59] a separate report, right? We didn't add it in, okay?
[1:01:11] Right on. Second scriber.
[1:01:21] All in favor? Aye, sir. I hamilton.
[1:01:31] Ice driver. Venegman. Aye. Martin, I. Approved. Moving on to
[1:01:40] environmental services. Eight DA environment zero, 125 water meter upgrades.
[1:01:47] Be it resolved, the council approve, deny or defer this
[1:01:50] budget request for $120,000. For the RF water meter upgrade
[1:01:55] to be funded through user fees and reserves. Could I
[1:01:59] be moving to secondary, please? Move to Arthur second Hamilton.
[1:02:07] Discussion. Counter tribal. I guess the only. And maybe Phil,
[1:02:13] you can speak to this or you, madam mayor. But
[1:02:14] this is a three year process, right, that we've been
[1:02:17] already started. Yes.
[1:02:36] User fees and reserves are funding this. Any further discussion.
[1:02:46] All in favor? I Hamilton ice driver. Benign.
[1:02:57] Martin I. That is carried. Does anybody want to break.
[1:03:03] Or keep plumbing. Okay. Eight db environment report 225. 2025
[1:03:12] water studies. Be it resolved, that council approved, deny or
[1:03:15] defer this budget request for $59,000 for water studies to
[1:03:21] be funded through user fees and reserves. Could I have
[1:03:24] a mover in a second, or please. Moved Hamilton. Second
[1:03:30] scriver. Any discussion. All in favor? I himilt ice
[1:03:40] driver, Bennegman. Aye, Martin, I. That's carried eight dc. Environment
[1:03:47] 325 portable trash pump. Be it resolved that council approve,
[1:03:52] deny, or defer this. Budget request to fund $25,000 for
[1:04:00] the purchase of a portable trash pump for wastewater treatment
[1:04:05] plant funded through user fees and reserves. Could I be
[1:04:09] mover into second, or. Please. Aye. Hamilton, second. Van Eggman.
[1:04:16] Any discussion. Deputy mayor Arthur. And councilor Hamilton. Thank you.
[1:04:24] And if I may, through you to staff. And that
[1:04:27] is what is this new that we have or what
[1:04:31] has been happening in the past. I mean, $25,000 for
[1:04:34] something. That the plant's been operational for many years without.
[1:04:37] Why all of a sudden, do we need one. Okay,
[1:04:44] I can gladly speak to that. When the plant was
[1:04:48] put online. At that time. We have groundwater pumps that
[1:04:54] exist in and around a clarifier, aeration, everything, so. These
[1:04:57] groundwater pumps were never installed because the plant again, when
[1:05:03] it came time to commission it, it never got actually
[1:05:05] what needed done. So right now what we do is,
[1:05:09] if we have to dump the clarifier or aeration. We
[1:05:13] put a trash pump in there, and we go back
[1:05:16] every 4 hours and add gas to it. Sometimes it
[1:05:18] takes two days. To bring their groundwater around these tanks.
[1:05:25] To drain them down. Because what will happen is when
[1:05:28] the clarifier in your aeration is full and you don't
[1:05:31] have your groundwater taken away from around it as you
[1:05:34] empty that tank, it'll push it up out of the
[1:05:36] ground. So. It's very important to have the groundwater drain
[1:05:42] down below them. Tank levels in the bottom. So what
[1:05:45] we've been doing is using a trash pump. To suck
[1:05:49] down the groundwater. Keep it running, and we keep going
[1:05:52] back every 4 hours, fill it. With gas. But this
[1:05:54] year we have to dump our aeration and our clarifier.
[1:05:58] To do a major clean out. So when we do
[1:06:01] that, We have to rent a big pump so we
[1:06:05] can do it fast. Get everything back online quick. And
[1:06:08] last time we did, I think our pump rentals were
[1:06:11] between pump rentals and what? We had to do with
[1:06:14] Clinton sewer came into around $20,000. So my idea I
[1:06:19] said that at that time, next time we do this,
[1:06:22] we're going to have the. Equipment. We need to do
[1:06:24] this. Renting it out, and then we have that piece
[1:06:29] of equipment for. Future work that is necessary if you
[1:06:32] have to bypass the sewer or if we have to
[1:06:35] suck. Out a big hole or whatever. This is just
[1:06:39] the device that will allow us to do our work
[1:06:41] much easier, faster, and be very cost effective. Yeah, and
[1:06:46] it could be used anywhere, any department, in the rural
[1:06:48] end, urban end, parts and rec. It's just a matter
[1:06:55] of. It's a bigger trash pump faster. And has more
[1:06:59] economical through the process. Of the project. Up till now.
[1:07:08] We just kind of did what we had to do
[1:07:09] to keep things going, but at this point, we got
[1:07:12] some. In the future. We could also use it to
[1:07:16] dream one of our ponds, for example. Go from cell
[1:07:20] one to cell two. Or. Supernatant office. L. Two into
[1:07:25] one. It's something that would be two durabilities instead of
[1:07:29] renting. Yes. Thank you. As a follow up, So we
[1:07:35] say the groundwater pumps were never installed. So is that
[1:07:38] something we need to be looking at to get to
[1:07:40] fix at this point. And then the other is when
[1:07:43] we say that in the past. We've used someone like
[1:07:46] Quinnie Sewer. So Quinnie Sewer comes in with their big
[1:07:48] truck, obviously, and they're sucking it out. So even with
[1:07:50] this trash pump, you're. Still going to need the additional
[1:07:53] support of somebody else that when you're pumping that, it's
[1:07:55] going to wear. Right. So we're still going to have
[1:07:58] those additional costs, will we not? No, we won't. Because
[1:08:03] the depth of the clarifier and aeration tanks. Is. That's
[1:08:06] why we bring Quinnian to suck the bottom output when
[1:08:08] we get this. Pump. We can get right down in
[1:08:12] low with it. And have it so it'll suck it
[1:08:16] right out and we can actually transfer it into. A
[1:08:20] channel that will take it right out to our cell
[1:08:24] to where our sludge is supposed. To be. You were
[1:08:27] mentioning. It can be used for other things. Can you
[1:08:35] help me? How would parks and rec use it, for
[1:08:38] example, or how would the fire department use it? Or
[1:08:42] whatever. I'm just naturally curious. Well, this is basically just
[1:08:48] a big trash pump that you can move high volumes
[1:08:51] of water, really. Fast, and that'll take sewage and chunk
[1:08:55] of stuff, and it's just a matter. Of. It's a
[1:08:59] four inch pump. That is designed. To pump higher volumes,
[1:09:07] but, yeah, like the fire department could use it. Parks
[1:09:09] and rack like it's. Fulfilling like a water truck. Tanks.
[1:09:14] We could have it set up. For multiple things. Here's
[1:09:18] where I'm coming from. We had, for example, a request
[1:09:22] from the fire department coming up. We need. Better pumping
[1:09:27] capacity. Well, anyway, I'm just curious. Would it apply? It
[1:09:36] would apply in a lot of different areas. These things
[1:09:39] are used for a lot of things. But right now.
[1:09:43] It's something that. We could really utilize at the plant.
[1:09:46] Of course, we're going to still have Quinn to do
[1:09:49] cleaner grit channels and stuff like that. But. We don't
[1:09:53] have to have them sitting there for hours and hours
[1:09:55] and hours. We can do the major work ourselves. Get
[1:09:58] them back, they can suck out the bad spots in
[1:10:00] 2 hours. Where they're not sitting there. The other pumps
[1:10:04] are plugging. It's so cost effective that. It can't be
[1:10:12] without it, really. And as far as groundwater pumps. They're
[1:10:17] against Sander. We might as well wait until we expand
[1:10:19] or whatever like we've. Gone this long with the groundwater
[1:10:22] pumps like that. We're talking probably $100,000. Put them in
[1:10:27] place, they'll get into your scada. It was never done.
[1:10:32] There's. The existing pumps are actually still in there, but
[1:10:34] the old pumps that were with the plant. They sat
[1:10:37] in there. But they're not hooked to disconnects or hooked.
[1:10:41] To skater. They're not wired in properly. So this was
[1:10:45] a problem. That goes way back. Twelve years ago, but
[1:10:49] again, We just kept everything going. So just as one
[1:10:54] quick follow up, the $20,000 you spoke of that that
[1:10:57] cost. On the pumps for the rental and quinty, et
[1:11:00] cetera. How often do we do this? Has this been
[1:11:05] the first time in a number of years? Is this
[1:11:06] something on an annual basis? Actually, we did it. I
[1:11:10] think it was about four years ago. We dumped the
[1:11:12] aeration because. You have to do more maintenance, and your
[1:11:21] diffusers never even get plugged up. But it's something that
[1:11:24] if we had the equipment, it would be routinely done,
[1:11:27] probably every two years. So that you're cleaning out, because
[1:11:30] if your diffusers get plugged up, then your aeration isn't
[1:11:32] right and you can't treat the sewage rate, but so
[1:11:36] if we had the equipment in place, yes. It would
[1:11:39] be something that be done on a two year basis.
[1:11:50] Anybody want to make a motion? Motion to approve.
[1:12:00] Is there a seconder? Moved by Sherry and seconded by
[1:12:07] Ed. Any further discussion? All in favor? Nay, Arthur.
[1:12:17] I. Hamilton ice driver ben eggman. Aye, Martin, I that
[1:12:24] is carried. Thank you. Eight e building services. Eight. Ea.
[1:12:31] Intern inspector. Be it resolved that council approve, deny or
[1:12:35] defer this budget request for an internship. Building inspector, funded
[1:12:41] through taxation. Could I have a mover into second, or,
[1:12:43] please? Moved Hamilton. Second scriber.
[1:12:54] Discussion. Should solve himself, okay?
[1:13:05] All in favor of having Nathan speak to this? Go
[1:13:09] for it, Nathan, please. Madam and members of council. Sorry.
[1:13:16] I've been in and out today. It's a good example
[1:13:19] as to what we're speaking to today, actually. We are
[1:13:23] short staffed at town hall. With our permanent administrator away.
[1:13:30] So this issue paper before you is a request to
[1:13:34] hire an intern inspector. The province of Ontario is struggling
[1:13:40] to find qualified building officials. There is not a very
[1:13:46] big hiring pool and. As you can see, if you
[1:13:51] look at other municipalities, building officials are constantly moving around.
[1:13:56] And again, the hiring pool is just not very good.
[1:14:00] So there is a provision in the Ontario building code
[1:14:02] to permit the hiring of an intern inspector. Who does
[1:14:06] not have the qualifications of a building official, but who
[1:14:09] can work under a building official. There are some restrictions
[1:14:13] to what they can do. And how long they can
[1:14:16] stay on, which is outlined in the issue paper here.
[1:14:20] And what it would help. With. Currently, the Ontario building
[1:14:26] code requires an inspection to be conducted within 24 hours.
[1:14:32] 48 hours. Pardon me of a request being put in.
[1:14:35] In the past, cramming township has hired intram inspectors who
[1:14:40] are on contract and can step in when needed. That
[1:14:47] is expensive as well. And it doesn't really provide longevity
[1:14:52] for the township. Should we ever need to expand. There
[1:14:57] is a lot of upcoming projects, a lot of subdivisions
[1:15:02] that we're trying to get. Prepared for. And having someone
[1:15:06] on board who can assist in plans, review and inspections
[1:15:10] of residential dwellings. Would be a huge asset to the
[1:15:13] building department. I'm welcome to any questions.
[1:15:24] Of course you're going to get me on this. Anyways.
[1:15:29] What is the advantage to. Having an intern to. An
[1:15:36] actual building inspector. An intern. Would they not be continuously
[1:15:42] upgrading to become an inspector? Which goes to my point.
[1:15:49] I would like to get somebody on the ground floor
[1:15:52] that builds. His. Reputation. Is on the way up. And
[1:15:58] maybe in two years we'll have another building inspector. Which
[1:16:03] I know is needed because of all the extra building,
[1:16:06] because the building specter of the time ten years ago.
[1:16:09] Said it was needed and we didn't have all this
[1:16:11] building going. On. This now seems like a part time.
[1:16:15] Is this a part time? My first question. What is
[1:16:24] the advantage to having. Someone without the owners. To maybe
[1:16:32] have someone come here and stay with us if the
[1:16:35] owners was in place. That could go to keeping him
[1:16:40] here. Thank you.
[1:16:50] Yes. Through you, Councilor Vanigman. So the part time question.
[1:16:58] No, they wouldn't be part time. The restriction that. The
[1:17:03] Ontario building code puts on an intern inspector is the
[1:17:06] length of time that they can stay. Working under that
[1:17:09] discipline, so. They don't want us to hire an intern
[1:17:13] inspector and them to become stagnant. So it encourages them
[1:17:19] to, yes, get their qualifications, pass their exams, to move
[1:17:22] into a full time. Position. So as you're explaining, yes,
[1:17:25] that is the goal, is that they would become a
[1:17:28] full time. Well, sorry, saying full time. Full time, full
[1:17:32] hours. The intern inspector is on full hours, but without
[1:17:37] the limitation. Of the time frame of them having to
[1:17:41] leave. So, yeah, that would be ideal for them to
[1:17:46] come on board the Omers portion, so I was speaking
[1:17:49] with our previous. Hr. When I prepared this issue paper.
[1:17:58] Whether or not we pay them omers. I'm not totally
[1:18:01] sure if we have to do that. Sorry, that's not
[1:18:04] really. I think Rhub and I did have a discussion
[1:18:07] about this, and she may be able to speak to
[1:18:09] it. Thank you. Yeah. So the cost that's mentioned on
[1:18:14] the issue paper, it says without Omars, because it's not
[1:18:17] including the cost of omrs we have to provide with
[1:18:20] them. With Omars because they're eligible for that, whether they're
[1:18:22] full time or part. Time. Even part timers now are
[1:18:26] eligible to participate in the pension program. So what this
[1:18:31] issue paper is saying to us is that it's not
[1:18:33] including the cost. So the cost in front of you
[1:18:35] does not include the employer cost of paying Omars to
[1:18:39] this employee. So the Omars would definitely then be applied.
[1:18:43] And that's where I was going. I want the Omrs
[1:18:46] to be attached to it. And if I may remar.
[1:18:56] Remarry busy. And you will need to help with the
[1:19:05] intern. What would he or she. Be able to do.
[1:19:08] You still have to physically be the one that examines
[1:19:10] everything. Goes on site, does the inspections, et cetera. And
[1:19:15] under the program, the interns, they get the orientation. They
[1:19:17] get this, they get that, but to me, at the
[1:19:21] moment, it's going to take more of your time in
[1:19:22] the training, which I think is still great, and maybe
[1:19:25] the individual will stay. But on the same side, I
[1:19:27] believe this route versus maybe another plan. Planning firm shared
[1:19:33] municipal services within wherever that we might be able to
[1:19:37] bring somebody on is another option. This one. It's great.
[1:19:41] And if the interns don't get the opportunity, how? Do
[1:19:42] they grow? So this is good for crammy, but on
[1:19:44] the same side, I don't know where it's helping you.
[1:19:48] Thank you. Yes, Madam Mayor. Yet that is something I
[1:19:52] definitely considered. It is going to be an investment in
[1:19:54] my time. They are permitted to do inspections without me.
[1:20:01] But I would be reviewing the reports. And making sure
[1:20:05] that everything. Is proceeding properly. I can accompany them on
[1:20:12] the occasional inspection, and I definitely would be doing that
[1:20:16] at the beginning. So the construction industry. And all trades,
[1:20:24] for that matter. Education is through apprenticeship. And it is
[1:20:30] known that when you hire an apprentice, you are going
[1:20:32] to be investing time in that individual. And I mean,
[1:20:36] that is, I think I mentioned it in my issue
[1:20:38] paper. That is obviously a risk is we are investing
[1:20:41] my time. And other resources. In this individual who. Could
[1:20:47] find their work elsewhere. But that goes with any of
[1:20:50] our staff. So, yeah, it is a mentorship and it
[1:20:54] is an apprenticeship that. Will be an investment, but. It
[1:21:00] will permit me to take a holiday without having to.
[1:21:05] Worry about having coverage as well as. Again with the
[1:21:10] upcoming subdivisions. It's just having another body is going to
[1:21:13] be a huge asset. I hope that answered your question.
[1:21:18] Nathan. They would come in with a minimum. They would
[1:21:21] come in with the building envelope, would they? Not. So
[1:21:26] I would have to refresh my memory. I believe I
[1:21:28] may have mentioned it here. We would want them to
[1:21:33] have. Their legal. So, to obtain a BCin, you do
[1:21:39] require to pass one exam. And the BCN. Sorry, the
[1:21:45] building code identification number, which all building officials and designers
[1:21:48] have. You would have to pass one exam, which would
[1:21:52] be the legal. And that would be the starting point.
[1:21:57] So, yeah, there is going to be a barrier of
[1:22:00] entry. For that. Yeah, I guess through you, Madam Mayor.
[1:22:03] So, Nathan, very thoughtful report, and I appreciate you putting
[1:22:06] it. Together and. It's nice to see the province being
[1:22:13] proactive and trying. To get some more people trained up
[1:22:17] for this service. I'm just curious. And I know we've
[1:22:21] got some subdivisions approved that we're going to see houses.
[1:22:23] Being built. But am I correct to say in 24,
[1:22:26] we saw a pretty big decline in the number of
[1:22:28] building permits we issued. Yes, three. Madam Mayor, I was
[1:22:32] actually prepared. To give you some numbers. As you've probably
[1:22:38] seen in our building reports. In 2021. We accepted 158
[1:22:45] permits. And then going through the years, 157 permits, 125
[1:22:51] permits. And then last year, we accepted 114 permits. Covid
[1:22:57] obviously boosted those numbers because everyone stayed home and put
[1:23:00] an addition on their home or renovated a bathroom. But
[1:23:08] last year, I think the economy took a pretty big
[1:23:11] hit and interest rates were quite high. We do see
[1:23:16] an uptick already. We have east fields starting up. Which
[1:23:21] I just issued. Victoria and I just issued. Eight building
[1:23:26] permits this morning. So. They are going to come very
[1:23:31] fast. So I guess where I struggle is, if the
[1:23:34] demand is there. How does it not offset the fees
[1:23:40] associated with hiring a new employee? So. Should the building
[1:23:45] department be sort of neutral in terms of. The money
[1:23:49] it brings in covers most of its fees or most
[1:23:52] of its costs. Sorry. Yeah. Through you, Madam Mayor. Yes,
[1:23:59] that's quite a possibility. I don't recall what I projected
[1:24:04] for our fees to be this year. But, yeah, I
[1:24:09] did project an uptick. I don't know if the complete
[1:24:12] cost would cover the complete wages of this individual. But
[1:24:17] we would be able to cover some of that for
[1:24:20] sure. Rhub. Ain't be better to speak to that. I
[1:24:29] believe what we're referring to is the revenue coming in
[1:24:31] from the building permits, so. It was budgeted for $170,000,
[1:24:33] and it is budgeted at 200,000. But there is a
[1:24:39] legislation. Within. I can't recall the actual legislation for the
[1:24:45] building, but it means any excess revenue. Coming into the
[1:24:48] building needs to flow into their building reserves at the
[1:24:51] end of the year. So this position was most likely
[1:24:54] be funded through taxation. You met a marriage members of
[1:25:04] council. I think it's also prudent to point out that
[1:25:10] the years that you're. Stating that there was. A higher
[1:25:15] number of building permits. We actually did have two people
[1:25:18] in those departments from 2021 up. So it wasn't just
[1:25:22] functioning with one as such, as yourself. So there is
[1:25:25] a difference. That even though there's a decline of 20
[1:25:27] permits, That you're still only operating at, at one person,
[1:25:31] as opposed to the dual rule that was supported there.
[1:25:35] I would also like to point out that earlier on
[1:25:38] in the budget process, You deferred a support for the
[1:25:42] fire chief? My recommendation, and it's completely up. To council.
[1:25:46] Before you deny or approve that, maybe you defer this
[1:25:49] one. And on whatever date we decide today to come
[1:25:53] back for the operations, we will be going in. Camera
[1:25:56] to discuss the structuring of the township and positions therein
[1:26:01] and the reason that will be in camera is because
[1:26:03] we will be speaking to specific positions already that are
[1:26:06] in house. That we have. And identified individuals. So it
[1:26:11] could be a time that we could discuss multiple options
[1:26:14] on what is being asked and questioned. May I?
[1:26:24] Thank you, Madam Mayor, just a quick question about that.
[1:26:30] And this? You may or may not be able to
[1:26:32] answer me, Haldi. Do you see overlap? In a position
[1:26:37] between the building department and. Fire services. No, I'm just
[1:26:44] stating that I think we need to look at the
[1:26:46] current structure of. What we have. Part time position, full
[1:26:50] time positions. We need to look at what we can
[1:26:52] utilize. In house how that could work. But because we're
[1:26:59] speaking to certain individuals positions, then we can't discuss that
[1:27:02] in open. Through you, Madam Mayor. To Holly. I'm just
[1:27:11] curious, historically. Mr. Butwell was our previous inspector, and there
[1:27:16] was two folks in the role previously, and I'm just
[1:27:19] curious. Why there was a business decision made to only
[1:27:23] move to one at one point or. How did the
[1:27:26] second role deteriorate? Through you, Madam mayor, to members of
[1:27:31] council. I'm going to weasel through this one.
[1:27:41] It is my understanding. In being in positions here, that
[1:27:46] it had been a supported position, because maybe not necessarily
[1:27:49] the people being hired were at full capacity of being
[1:27:51] a building official, so they needed support from other building.
[1:27:55] Officials to get their training in to bring them forward,
[1:27:58] but was always shared in a dual role. There was
[1:28:00] a lot of permits that were not closed, so they
[1:28:03] had to be brought up. And it was just too
[1:28:04] much of a workload to be put on, too. That's
[1:28:07] still an ongoing process that I know Nathan deals with
[1:28:09] currently. When don. Our previous CBO came in, it was
[1:28:13] just him, but he was given the additional support of.
[1:28:16] The admin assistant on the front desk, which we do
[1:28:19] have, which did alleviate some of that. But we did
[1:28:22] also have to have Ken Anders come in and support
[1:28:26] as well. So there is always been a support in
[1:28:29] some sort. To that department. Yeah, that's super helpful. I'm
[1:28:36] happy to defer this and see. What you guys pull
[1:28:40] together and get your thinking on it, I will say.
[1:28:45] Personally. I maintain we're in an economic environment where it's
[1:28:50] very difficult to add staff. Regardless of whether or not
[1:28:53] their interns are part time or full time. And I
[1:28:56] just remind council. Our. Initial budget didn't include. The proposed
[1:29:02] levy didn't include any staff. So any staff increases would
[1:29:06] be in addition to what the draft budget looked like
[1:29:09] originally. So anyway. That's just my thinking on it, but
[1:29:11] I'm certainly happy to defer and understand what the broader
[1:29:14] thinking is because it would be interesting to see that.
[1:29:18] Sorry I turned on my way. Thank you, madam Mayor.
[1:29:25] I would second. The motion to defer for all of
[1:29:28] the reasons that council Scriber is deciding, I think. A
[1:29:31] more fulsome discussion around how we're stopping and where the
[1:29:35] needs are. It's very clear that our planning and building
[1:29:38] department has become. A very busy place. Have a mover
[1:29:44] in a second or any further discussion. I'm sorry.
[1:29:56] All in favor? Aye, Arthur. I Hamilton I scriber.
[1:30:05] Voting nay only because I don't think it should be
[1:30:08] deferred. I think this is a known position, and the
[1:30:12] problem is not going to go away by deferring it.
[1:30:15] For a couple of days and having. Another look at
[1:30:18] it. I support the brewing till the 29th. Thank you.
[1:30:26] Recess. Short recess. Coffee and tea are over here. We
[1:30:33] need a motion to have a break, please. Move to
[1:30:37] break. Second, Hamilton. All in favor?
[1:30:49] Recording stopped.
[1:44:36] Recording in progress.
[1:44:52] Okay.
[1:45:17] But we're missing one, counselor. Shall we? Shall we resume?
[1:45:28] Next one is grant application. Applications. So nine a is
[1:45:35] Crammy Hill cemetery. The amount requested is 540.
[1:45:46] So we have one, two, three. Cemeteries. Do you want
[1:45:51] to do them all at once? They are all asking
[1:45:54] for $540. And that is. For Grammy Hill Cemetery, Shiloh
[1:46:03] Cemetery, and wait Cemetery. The resolution, be it resolved, that
[1:46:08] council approved, deny or deferred these budget requests in the
[1:46:12] amount of $540. For Cremy Hill cemetery, Shiloh cemetery and
[1:46:18] wait cemetery? Could I be mover into seconder? Please. Motion
[1:46:23] to approve. Second scriver. Is there any discussion? Do you
[1:46:31] want to wait or do you want to.
[1:46:44] Deputy mayor Arthur, please. Thank you. Just back, we had
[1:46:49] a conversation. In regard. I think it was the issue
[1:46:53] papers for the cemetery, software and different things. We were
[1:46:55] talking about? Did we not say that there was a
[1:46:59] possibility of us not even doing this, that this should?
[1:47:02] Be something that should be cost amongst the cemetery boards
[1:47:05] themselves that they need to. Look at this. Did we
[1:47:10] not kind of have a brief discussion? A brief discussion
[1:47:13] amongst us? That. I get it and I understand. But
[1:47:19] again, it's something that we need to look at as
[1:47:21] well as the council. Is that board not charging enough?
[1:47:26] When the burials come? Are these all filled up cemeteries
[1:47:31] now that there would be no additional income coming in?
[1:47:33] Is this. What we're doing. I don't want to be
[1:47:34] the negative person here, but we need to try and
[1:47:37] break things up. Three. You, madam mayor, to deputy mayor
[1:47:40] Arthur. They're private cemeteries. We have no sanction or governing
[1:47:48] over them. So how they use their money, how they
[1:47:50] charge their fees, what they do. I can guarantee if
[1:47:53] ours is outdated, theirs. Is most likely outdated and the
[1:47:56] process to update your fees. Is quite Oneis and I
[1:48:00] know that we're going through it. I have no problem.
[1:48:03] Reaching out to every one of them. When we do,
[1:48:04] increase our fees and bring our bylaws. Forward if we
[1:48:07] can assist and support them in any way to do
[1:48:10] so. Or help them with any type of information or
[1:48:14] supports that way. Sorry for being late, but coming into
[1:48:18] this. All the cemetery boards are asking for the insurance
[1:48:25] cost, period. If they cannot have the insurance costs, guess
[1:48:31] what? We're going to get them. Because. It's above what
[1:48:36] the cost to them is. And when they had to
[1:48:38] get insurance in that came back. Six, seven years ago.
[1:48:44] They all had to get insurance, and that was to
[1:48:46] the tune of $540. And that's the ask for, I
[1:48:50] believe, every one of them. Is. The insurance cost. For
[1:48:56] all three, okay? And I agree. Other
[1:49:06] than the Cranberry Hill cemetery, they have theirs identified. I
[1:49:09] know the request is only 540, but on their expense
[1:49:12] sheet, it's one $200 where the other two are both
[1:49:14] 540. I get it, and I don't want to take
[1:49:21] anything away. And know we as the municipality do not
[1:49:25] have to get these cemeteries back and. Be even a
[1:49:29] higher cost than what we're currently or what that would
[1:49:31] be. Okay, I'll check that. So shriver. Yeah.
[1:49:43] I agree. And 540. Is relatively modest, but just. As.
[1:49:50] You guys continue to update the township. Operated cemeteries and
[1:49:58] this money goes out, it might be worth having a
[1:50:00] discussion with them just around. How we're approaching rates and
[1:50:05] the idea. Of. Checks and credits balancing. But having said
[1:50:12] that, I think it's a modest investment. Compared to what
[1:50:18] the alternative would be. Any further discussion. All in favor?
[1:50:29] Aye, Arthur. I Hamilton ice driver. Benigmund. Aye, Martin, I.
[1:50:39] Resolution is carried. 9d colton street repairs. The resolution reads,
[1:50:48] be it resolved, that council approved and I deferred this
[1:50:51] budget request in the amount of $1,500 for the 103
[1:50:55] Colton street ratepayers. Could I move her into second, or
[1:50:59] please. Move, van eggman. Second scriber. And so we have
[1:51:07] a list of these private roads and their requests for
[1:51:11] grants. And I think. Holly, would you like to speak
[1:51:18] to this? Not to put you on the spot. Okay.
[1:51:24] Sorry. Thank you. Do you want this one? Three, Madam
[1:51:27] mayor, two members of council. We did have a meeting
[1:51:30] with the public or, sorry, private. Roads owners. There was
[1:51:36] quite a few in attendance. Councilor Scriber as well as
[1:51:40] councilor van Eggman. Attended. The meeting, I felt, went very
[1:51:44] well in terms of the message that we were relaying.
[1:51:50] We did have. Legal in support as well as. Dave
[1:51:54] McGlennan from insurance to help answer questions or concerns. The
[1:51:59] bottom line is that they are private roads. So it
[1:52:04] was a private meeting because they own their roads. It
[1:52:06] belongs to them. It's not the municipality. We have no
[1:52:08] sanction, we have no way to govern. It is nothing
[1:52:11] within. Our control. They are private. They're owned by the
[1:52:14] landowners that are adjoined to those roads. So it was
[1:52:17] more of a support in terms of moving forward. It's
[1:52:21] just. That we have no say over. Your road. And
[1:52:25] as far as the funding goes, that's completely up to
[1:52:27] council, whether you support or you don't support, we can
[1:52:30] go on. What you've done in the past and. What
[1:52:31] you haven't and all those wonderful things. But basically it
[1:52:35] comes down to as private road owners, they need to
[1:52:37] form committees, they need to form committees that adhere to
[1:52:41] insurance, that adhere to their liabilities, and all those wonderful
[1:52:44] things that come with owning a private road. If and
[1:52:48] when it ever became part of a conversation for the
[1:52:50] municipality to take over a private road. That's a whole
[1:52:53] other conversation in itself that we did not steer into.
[1:52:56] But as it stands. We just wanted everybody to be
[1:52:58] on the same plane, field and to the same hearing.
[1:53:01] The same thing, which is you own a private road
[1:53:04] and it is yours, so it's. Your due diligence to
[1:53:06] maintain it. It is your. Due diligence to bring it
[1:53:09] up to whatever standard needs to be in order to
[1:53:11] get. Any type of health and safety there, whether it
[1:53:15] be Ms. or fire or all of those things. And
[1:53:18] we don't touch your road. I'm sure that councilor Scriber
[1:53:21] can. Add to that as well as Ed van Eggman,
[1:53:23] and let them see what their opinion or Endor. Thoughts
[1:53:26] on that arc? I'd like to concur with Holly on
[1:53:29] most of the stuff. There is a formula in place.
[1:53:37] I'm not sure where that formula is, but it does
[1:53:40] lower some of these asks the formula should be adhered
[1:53:45] to. But these people pay for the rest of the
[1:53:48] roads that are in the township also. It's not just
[1:53:51] their own road. They pay for their other roads in
[1:53:54] their taxes. They are asking for. Most of these are
[1:53:58] asking for the amount that the formula allows them. So
[1:54:03] I'm not sure if planning would have that formula or.
[1:54:06] I'm not sure. If the treasurer has that formula, but.
[1:54:10] It goes to kilometers number of houses. And there was
[1:54:15] one other thing, but anyway. They are all okay with
[1:54:19] having the board? Most of them have the board. There's
[1:54:24] not always full attendance at those meetings. But. Our main
[1:54:29] concern at the last. Year's thing was that we would
[1:54:36] be liable for these roads. Insurance and legal said. We
[1:54:43] are not held to a higher degree of liability just
[1:54:47] because we are funding them. And I want to make
[1:54:49] that clear. These people. Are looking just the same thing
[1:54:55] as the township gets the rest of the people that
[1:54:58] live on. Public roads. They are just looking for that
[1:55:02] same amount. That amount. That they are set out in
[1:55:06] the formula, and most of these have done that. There
[1:55:09] are a couple of these roads that have gone over
[1:55:11] and above, and I don't understand why. And I think
[1:55:14] some of it has to do because their funding was
[1:55:16] cut last year. So as a counselor, I just like
[1:55:20] to say the formula needs to be adhered to. If
[1:55:23] there's something extra. That they need that needs to be
[1:55:26] spelled out, but. It should be administered with the yearly
[1:55:32] cola added. And that's my stand on it. Three. You,
[1:55:39] Madam mayor, two members of council, and specifically councilor van
[1:55:42] Eggman. There's no formula in minutes. So this is a
[1:55:45] formula that I think was agreed upon in a handshake.
[1:55:47] Or somewhere or whatever that they just sort of passed
[1:55:50] through. We have nothing and have found nothing and a
[1:55:52] record to stand. True that it's an agreement or an
[1:55:54] approval of. Counsel to the formula that this would be
[1:56:00] moving forward and this is how it would go. So
[1:56:04] in lack there of that, if that's what you're going
[1:56:07] on, I would like that on record in minutes, if
[1:56:09] that's how you're going to formulate. How? You're going to
[1:56:12] hand out funding towards these roads, depending on which way
[1:56:16] that goes, just. So that we do have it on
[1:56:17] record. Yeah. So through you, Madam mayor, to members account.
[1:56:23] So. I think just to reiterate Ed's point, the one
[1:56:28] thing that. 's quite clear now. That was less clear.
[1:56:32] Last year was liability. There's no concern for anyone on
[1:56:35] this council to believe that we hold any liability from
[1:56:40] an insurance or from a legal perspective, both those parties
[1:56:42] agreed that the road owners were solely the ones responsible
[1:56:46] for any accidents. Or liabilities that take place on. Their
[1:56:50] property. And what was, I guess, reiterated in the meeting
[1:56:54] is that it's up to this council. To approve a
[1:56:57] grant on any given year. So the ball is certainly
[1:57:00] in our court in terms of how we want to
[1:57:02] proceed with private roads. I'd be curious because to me,
[1:57:07] I was looking at, because if we look at these,
[1:57:09] five. And there's a couple of them on their balance
[1:57:15] sheet that are contributing. Reddick Road. The residents of Reddick
[1:57:18] Road and the residents of Trinir are both throwing in
[1:57:21] over $1,000 to their private roads, and the other three,
[1:57:25] according to their balance sheets, are not and that's greatly
[1:57:28] reducing the amount that they're asking for. And I don't
[1:57:32] mind meeting in the middle somewhere. I'd like to see
[1:57:34] the residents contributing, and I don't mind. The township. In
[1:57:40] principle, if we found the right mechanism to do something
[1:57:43] similar. And I was thinking. About a formula in my
[1:57:46] head, and if I look at what people have asked
[1:57:49] for and I was wondering again. I'm just making up
[1:57:52] ideas here. I have no idea. In absence of the
[1:57:55] actual formula or whatever was used originally. But we've got
[1:57:58] some of these roads with. They're all relatively short, between
[1:58:02] 500 meters, I'd say, in a kilometer. And, for example,
[1:58:06] you could consider doing. $4,000 a kilometer and making it
[1:58:11] prorated based on if you were half a kilometer, then
[1:58:14] you got $2,000. If you were a kilometer, you got
[1:58:16] $4,000. And doing it just based on distance, for example.
[1:58:21] But as it stands, I just find it we've got
[1:58:24] a couple of roads that are contributing and that's bringing
[1:58:26] down their ask, and it's kind of. Unfair to you.
[1:58:29] See a couple that are coming to the table and
[1:58:31] all throwing in some money. And the other three are
[1:58:33] not. To me, it does make sense to have a
[1:58:37] bit of. If we do proceed to fund these. In
[1:58:39] any way, it does make sense to have a formula
[1:58:41] to bring a bit of consistency to it. And thank
[1:58:50] you. So if there was a formula, and God forbid
[1:58:54] we've been discussing this. For years. I am sure somebody
[1:58:57] must have it. And if we, as council and staff
[1:59:00] and whoever. Don't have it. I'm sure somebody from one
[1:59:02] of these roads committees must have. It and bring it
[1:59:04] forward to throw it in our face, not in a
[1:59:06] negative way. But, I mean, here's the formula, right? So
[1:59:11] that we have it, we're saying, no. They're saying yes,
[1:59:14] and they provided it. We can't find it, but nobody's.
[1:59:17] Brought that forward, so I can't see there being one,
[1:59:19] and maybe it was only a verbal discussion way back
[1:59:22] in the day. I don't remember that. But again, giving
[1:59:26] money. Where. So the very first one we have is
[1:59:30] Colton. The street repairs. I mean, they've given us a
[1:59:33] summary on the back that they paid for snow plowing.
[1:59:36] They paid for this? How do I know, as a
[1:59:38] counselor, before I give money for the next year, that
[1:59:41] they did? That there's no backup. I'm not saying that
[1:59:43] we need to waste paper that. They have to provide
[1:59:45] the copy. But if we're giving out money and not
[1:59:47] seeing anything. Done. That's not where I want to be
[1:59:52] for the other taxpayers of the municipality either, so. There's
[1:59:55] got to be some responsibility here on everybody. Just my
[2:00:00] quick thought. As for my department, the roads, I've been
[2:00:05] involved with these private roads numerous times and there is
[2:00:08] a formula. I have seen it. And we actually went
[2:00:15] by it for numerous years. So if you want. I
[2:00:21] can probably find that formula somewhere because I have actually
[2:00:24] witnessed it with my own eyes, so. It is there
[2:00:26] somewhere, because. We've went by on loads of travel and
[2:00:31] how we were to move forward with these. Private roads.
[2:00:35] So I've been involved with it before, and I've actually
[2:00:38] seen something. In writing, which stated how this was to
[2:00:42] be planned out. So. I can definitely look into where
[2:00:47] it is or how I could find it. Thank you,
[2:00:51] Madam Mayor. I think everybody. Well, maybe everybody doesn't remember.
[2:00:58] I was quite shocked when I first realized that. Municipal
[2:01:01] taxpayers are funding private roads. And I still can't get
[2:01:06] my head around that. So, if I may, I would
[2:01:10] like to defer all this. For the private roads until
[2:01:16] we receive the formula. If Phil's able to bring that
[2:01:18] back. To our next meeting. Okay. Is that a motion?
[2:01:26] The motion on the floor is. This one, and then.
[2:01:34] So, do you want to defer, then? Make it a
[2:01:38] deferral. We get this formula?
[2:01:51] If we find the formula, and I know it's out
[2:01:54] there because I helped write it. So it is out
[2:01:57] there somewhere. And the roads. People had to sign it
[2:02:01] to agree to what? The township brought to them in
[2:02:04] the early days, they would be able to get gravel
[2:02:07] at the gravel pit, and we cut that out already.
[2:02:11] If that has to go back in that they get
[2:02:13] free gravel, maybe it's going to cost us more in
[2:02:15] the end, too. So I would be okay with the
[2:02:21] deferral. Till. We get? Whatever agreement it is. And maybe
[2:02:29] some of the ratepayer roads. The private roads people, they
[2:02:34] might have that formula with them because they all come
[2:02:37] up with different ideas here, different numbers. And so there
[2:02:40] is a formula somewhere that we have to have. Seconds.
[2:02:45] Driver. All in favor? Aye, Arthur. Nay, Hamilton.
[2:02:55] Ice driver. Vinigmund? Aye. Martin? Nay. Resolution is carried.
[2:03:15] So, if I may, I will put a motion forward
[2:03:18] that the balance of the grant applications for. 2025 being
[2:03:21] McDonald Road, Reddick Road, Strawberry Lane repairs, Trina Road. Are
[2:03:30] deferred to our next meeting so that we can research
[2:03:33] the formula, so that we know what we need to
[2:03:35] do moving forward on these projects. Second scriber any further
[2:03:43] discussion. The question. What meeting are we talking about? Our
[2:03:50] council meeting or our next budget meeting? Our next budget
[2:03:55] meeting. Has that date finally been determined? Because I'm not
[2:04:02] going to follow all the female lines. That's what I
[2:04:06] thought. All in favor? Aye, Arthur.
[2:04:14] Nahilton ice driver Benningman. Martin? Nay. And the resolution is
[2:04:22] carry to deferred. Nine I Castleton Sports Club. The amount
[2:04:28] requested is $4,600. Resolution reads, be it resolved, that council
[2:04:33] approved deny, defer this budget request in the amount of
[2:04:35] $4,600 to the Castleton Sports Club. Could I have a
[2:04:40] mover in a second or please. Move, van eggman. Second,
[2:04:44] Hamilton. Any discussion. Deputy Merrith thank you. And again, just
[2:04:52] for accountability, there's not really a breakdown of what the
[2:04:55] costs are that they're looking for. It says for operations,
[2:05:02] this and that. But if there's. A broader breakdown of
[2:05:06] what we could do. I would like to see before
[2:05:08] we go. Three, Madam Mayor to members of council and,
[2:05:11] I believe, Janet. Are you still sitting on the committee?
[2:05:14] For the sports club because every year that I had
[2:05:16] sat on the committee, they asked for the property tax.
[2:05:20] That's what the money was funded for. Was to cover
[2:05:27] the property taxes. Of the sports field. I can look
[2:05:33] into the taxation part. I would just like to point
[2:05:35] out that they're. Requesting $3,000 of grant and then one
[2:05:38] $600 for in kind use of the Castleton town hall,
[2:05:43] so it's 3000 in the grand. There's also the additional
[2:05:45] 1600 and I can look at the taxes right now
[2:05:48] as we discussing this. Thank you. I also just want
[2:05:57] to say that the Castleton sports club is used by
[2:06:00] so many and it's a great thing to the community,
[2:06:02] and by all means, I'm not trying. To take anything
[2:06:04] away. I'm only asking for accountability. I'm
[2:06:14] surprised that this is the only ask they have, actually,
[2:06:17] Sandra, because if you went down there and realized all
[2:06:21] the things that those people did down there. For basically
[2:06:29] just a taxation portion and in kind use which really
[2:06:33] costs us nothing. At the castleton town hall. Golly. We
[2:06:41] just gave. A whole shitload. To downtown here on things
[2:06:47] that weren't even needed. And here we're going to question
[2:06:50] this. I don't agree. Are we very far away from
[2:06:59] tax? Yes, I'm still looking for that. Sorry.
[2:07:26] It's on the floor for approval. I'm putting it to
[2:07:28] the vote. All in. Favor. I answer? I. Hamilton Ice
[2:07:36] driver vanigman. Martin. I it is carried. Colburn curling club.
[2:07:46] Yes, sure. Sorry. The taxes for the Castleton Sports Club
[2:07:52] for 2024 were $3,107. Good. Okay. Nine J the.
[2:08:03] Culvert Curling Club. Resolution reads, be it resolved, the council
[2:08:07] approved. Deny or defer this. Budget request in the amount
[2:08:10] of $5,000 to the Colbert Curling Club. Could I be
[2:08:14] mover in a second, or please. Move, Scrabber. Second, Hamilton.
[2:08:25] Discussion. Yes, Councilor Schriver. Yeah, I'm curious to get other
[2:08:31] counselors opinion on. This. I know. They've got some more
[2:08:37] activities taking place there at the curling center now, but
[2:08:39] I believe the last couple of years, they've asked for
[2:08:41] the five and we've given them. The 2500. So another
[2:08:47] super valuable member of the community, and it's wonderful that
[2:08:50] they manage. This facility themselves. But just am curious to
[2:08:55] get other folks thoughts on it as well. Councilor hamilton.
[2:09:02] Thank you, Madam Mayor. Yes. The Coburn Curling Club has
[2:09:06] managed to turn that facility into a year round user
[2:09:10] facility by offering it to the pickleball club. In the
[2:09:15] summer months. So I do think it's valuable. We wouldn't
[2:09:20] have pickleball in Colburn or Crammy if it weren't. For
[2:09:24] the fact that they had the foresight to do that.
[2:09:33] Personally. I'll go over the 2500, but I will not
[2:09:38] go for the 5000. This is another group that asked
[2:09:41] for their taxation in the beginning, and I believe that
[2:09:44] that was 2500 at that time, and that's what we
[2:09:48] gave them. I'm with Mandy. 5000 is too high. Do
[2:09:55] you want to speak, Sandra? Yeah. Deputy Mayor Arthur and
[2:09:58] I agree with what both of you. Are saying. The
[2:10:00] other thing that I see in here is that they
[2:10:02] wanted extra. They had a major dehumidifier purchased last year.
[2:10:06] Well, yet in the financial documents, I don't. See it.
[2:10:12] So I'll stay with the 2500. So we need a
[2:10:16] motion, and I can't make it. Joel and Sherry, do
[2:10:22] you agree to the 25. Okay. All in favor? Aye,
[2:10:29] Arthur. I himut ice driver Benigmund I. Martin, I approved
[2:10:38] for 2500. Community care, Northumberland. Amount requested, $14,000. Be it
[2:10:44] resolved, that council approved and I defer. This budget request
[2:10:47] in the amount of 14,000. To community care North Amberland.
[2:10:52] Could I be mover in a second, or. Please, for
[2:10:54] discussion. I moved to approve. Second scriber. And.
[2:11:06] If we could just elaborate what it's for, just so
[2:11:08] people know we're not. Silver plating, anything. So community care
[2:11:15] provides programs such as meals and wheels, wellness programs in
[2:11:18] home services, broken worker, ruler transit and specialized transportation in
[2:11:23] our area for the township. Are we still administering that?
[2:11:34] Yes. I've been trying to get other municipalities, and I've
[2:11:38] been communication with community care. To try and have another
[2:11:43] township take over because that was the director from the
[2:11:46] council. We haven't been able to do that, really, and
[2:11:49] it's mainly because it's been really busy, so I will
[2:11:51] take the blame for that. I haven't had a chance
[2:11:53] to. Reach out to the treasurer at the county, but
[2:11:55] I will be for a year. 2020. Five, we will
[2:11:58] see an agreement coming to council. To sign for the
[2:12:01] funding, so we'll be doing that just for up until
[2:12:04] 2024. And hopefully 2025, someone else can take over. Thank
[2:12:08] you, Rubb. I know this is taken. As you said,
[2:12:11] it's taken a lot. Of your time and Crammy has
[2:12:12] had it for quite some time. Do we have a
[2:12:17] ballpark? How many hours that is on an annual basis.
[2:12:21] Is this something that if they were contributing, the other
[2:12:23] municipalities were contributing to us? Could we keep it knowing
[2:12:26] that we're getting some assistance back financially? Or is this
[2:12:30] something that. How difficult? Would it be to transfer from
[2:12:33] crammy? This year, Brighton. Next year, the next one, the
[2:12:35] next year. Is that a lot of confusion for when
[2:12:37] the funding applications come where we know it? But let's
[2:12:40] get help. With it. Unfortunately, it just sits very low
[2:12:45] on the priority list here because. We've been really busy
[2:12:50] and we are the smallest township with the lowest staff
[2:12:53] in the finance department in the north of veronan county,
[2:12:56] so that definitely puts a strain on that, but I
[2:12:59] think. There's a lot of paperwork involved. I don't believe
[2:13:02] we can be in a situation where it can be
[2:13:04] transferred to each township every year. I was talking to
[2:13:08] the province on this, and they suggested the county takeover.
[2:13:12] And. That was just last week. That was as recent
[2:13:16] as last week, so I've yet to contact the treasurer
[2:13:18] at the county and see what the hepatitis. Yes. Ruba.
[2:13:26] If I'm not totally wrong, most of this is funded
[2:13:30] from the gas tax that we receive. For this operation?
[2:13:34] And is this our share or is this the total
[2:13:38] amount that all the communities. Are we paying this because.
[2:13:43] We get the gas tax refund? No. So the province
[2:13:47] provides funding, and all we're doing is we're signing the
[2:13:50] agreement. We're passing the bylaw because they can directly provide
[2:13:53] the funding to the community. Care. So we act as
[2:13:56] the medium for that. So we received the funding and
[2:13:58] then we pass. It on to them. So that funding
[2:14:00] is separate from what we're approving today. This is our
[2:14:03] contribution as crammy towards community care for providing the specialized
[2:14:07] transit. In addition to whatever funds that they get. In
[2:14:11] transit gas tax from the province and each member of
[2:14:14] municipality. So other townships and even the county, if I
[2:14:17] remember correctly, also contributes to this. And that's what we
[2:14:21] report to MTO. At the end of the year. So
[2:14:25] do we. Handle everything coming from the government as a
[2:14:28] grant or a refund or whatever it is, and. Then
[2:14:32] we dole out checks to each individual. Municipality. So we
[2:14:39] received the funding from the province and we give it
[2:14:41] to community care. So it's. An in and out for
[2:14:43] us. However, I would just like it noted that they
[2:14:48] are not always on their toes and they suddenly demand
[2:14:51] things within three days because they have a deadline to
[2:14:54] file for their tax purposes or whatever. And that throws
[2:14:57] us into the loop. Whatever. And we have been on
[2:15:00] notice for five years now. That we have done this.
[2:15:06] For over ten, if not 15. And it's time that
[2:15:08] other municipalities stepped up and took it. I might also
[2:15:13] add that community care has greatly expanded, greatly expanded in
[2:15:18] terms of what they qualify. Et cetera. They have Ed's
[2:15:21] house, for example. They have all kinds of other outreach
[2:15:26] programs now. And many more staff members than us. And
[2:15:31] I think this does need to be reviewed and give
[2:15:34] it back to the province or to the county. They
[2:15:39] keep dumping this stuff down the line. And it's time.
[2:15:43] Like, we have lines here now and. Need to hold
[2:15:47] them because they're not giving us any grants. Time out.
[2:15:53] Yeah. So do you think that we should be paying
[2:15:57] $14,000 given that they've closed our office here in Colburn.
[2:16:02] That's my question. Because we're not getting the service that
[2:16:05] we used to have. There is no community care office
[2:16:07] here in town anymore. But they stop. Yes, and transportation
[2:16:15] and so on. But all I'm saying is that we
[2:16:17] are not. Getting the services we used to get. In
[2:16:23] terms of. Equipment. Borrowing equipment. For walkers and all that
[2:16:29] stuff. And yes, they do. Meals on wheels, which is
[2:16:35] great, twice a week, et cetera. Absolutely. I support that
[2:16:38] program. Or whatever, but we do not have the contact.
[2:16:41] For example, people calling in, for example, yesterday asking for
[2:16:44] help with snow removal, and they're used to administer a
[2:16:48] list of volunteers and services for our local. Well, now
[2:16:53] you have to call through to Brighton and nobody seems
[2:16:55] to know anything. And where is colburn anyway. And whatever.
[2:17:00] Yeah. So this is the first time I'm hearing this.
[2:17:02] I was not aware of that. I could reach out
[2:17:06] to community care and ask for clarification on the levels
[2:17:08] of service. That has been provided in the township before
[2:17:10] we approve this. And Sandra, you talk about accountability and
[2:17:15] knowing and having. I'd like to see what are you
[2:17:18] giving us? What are you giving us? And they're a
[2:17:23] great organization. No problem. But we have to account for
[2:17:27] everything. We're not getting reports, we're not getting updates. With
[2:17:32] community care. And if it is money in, money out.
[2:17:39] Then the accountability is probably sent somewhere, maybe not to
[2:17:42] this municipality. And so if that's being done, then? Yes.
[2:17:46] I'd like to see the paperwork, but. If it's not
[2:17:50] coming out of taxation. So I just like to clarify
[2:17:54] that. So this 14,000 is coming out of taxation because.
[2:17:57] That is our personal contribution as the township towards the
[2:18:00] community care. So what I do with the province for
[2:18:03] them is the funding that they get from the province.
[2:18:05] So that's separate. So maybe they get 50,000 from the
[2:18:07] province each year we receive that fund, and then. We
[2:18:13] send them a check for that funding. But then this
[2:18:14] is in addition to the 50 that they already received
[2:18:17] from the province and other municipalities also provide these grants
[2:18:21] to community care because of the services that they provide
[2:18:24] in addition to the gas tax funding. So this 14,000
[2:18:27] will be funded through taxation on our end. Having heard
[2:18:31] that, then I would put it out to the rest
[2:18:33] of municipalities that have community care. That. Our allotment will
[2:18:40] decrease, so theirs will have to increase because we're doing
[2:18:44] all the work. And you know what? It's longer than
[2:18:47] five years, Mandy. It's before. You were on council because
[2:18:51] we were already then saying we were putting too much
[2:18:54] time into this. And I'm sure it was ten years
[2:18:56] ago that this. Came up that this was supposed to
[2:18:59] have been switched and nothing on our staff. Our staff
[2:19:02] is. Doing it all. But if that's the case, then
[2:19:07] the rest of them are going to have to pay.
[2:19:08] A little bit more because we're doing all the legwork.
[2:19:12] We're under no obligation like this is a grant, so
[2:19:14] the approval is entirely up to. Council's decision. Thank you,
[2:19:19] Madam Mary. Having heard much of this information for the
[2:19:27] first time today. I have questions about the level of
[2:19:31] service as well. Before. We would just kind of check
[2:19:35] for 14 grand. So I think we need to know.
[2:19:40] What is happening in our community. And traditionally. It was
[2:19:49] in the 10,000 mark or somewhere, if not less. So
[2:19:53] I don't. Know, if we defer this, we're going to
[2:19:55] have a long list of deferrals. For the next meeting.
[2:19:57] And here we go again. So. I would suggest, let's
[2:20:04] just make it 10,000. And you come and see us.
[2:20:08] And then we can explain. It. Sorry, came back on
[2:20:15] without asking. I still have questions about levels of service,
[2:20:20] whether it's 10,000 or 14,000 if they've closed their office
[2:20:24] in our municipality. And we've got residents who normally would
[2:20:28] have relied on being able to get out of their
[2:20:31] house by calling community care for the list of volunteers.
[2:20:37] What are we still getting? I have that question. Still.
[2:20:42] Councilor Shriver. Council. And any councilor Ben Eggman. And also
[2:20:45] it's pointed out. It's attached. The services that they say
[2:20:51] they provide. Right in the issue paper. But we're short
[2:20:56] on detail. Okay, let's go. Who was next? Through you,
[2:21:01] madam, maybe to rub into members of council. So they
[2:21:04] had a pretty thorough application and. It looks like they've
[2:21:06] got 76,000. From the gas tax. But outside of the
[2:21:14] crammy line item, which is the first one, they got
[2:21:17] another grant. For 20 grand. So is there just one
[2:21:20] other township supporting them? I'd be curious to know. What
[2:21:25] other townships are doing to contribute because it looks like
[2:21:27] there's only one other one. Potentially. I have a breakdown
[2:21:32] from year 2023. Of what other? It's on a report.
[2:21:38] I can definitely share that information. I'm not sure what
[2:21:41] they've listed as other grant. I'm thinking that. Is the
[2:21:43] grants from other townships, but I can't confirm that.
[2:22:04] Yes, please. Three amount of marriage members of council, I
[2:22:06] think what we're trying to point out. Is that on
[2:22:08] the issue paper that they've submitted? The first line item
[2:22:16] is municipal grant requested is 14,000 from Crammy Township. Other
[2:22:19] grants total 20. So if you've got three, I think
[2:22:21] you listed three municipalities feeding into that you've got three
[2:22:24] giving 20, but they're requesting 14 from Crammy. Another 1000
[2:22:28] for donations. So it would be interesting to see what
[2:22:32] other municipalities are all contributing in terms of. So a
[2:22:37] breakdown from year 2022 2023 because. They do pass over
[2:22:43] the year end the calendar year. So Hamilton Township contributed
[2:22:47] 9000. Port hope 9000 County 9500 anh 2000. And we
[2:22:55] do the work. Not on. Not on.
[2:23:09] If we just reduce it to 10,000, does that make
[2:23:12] them come visit us and explain? I don't think it
[2:23:15] does. If we want to have a conversation with them,
[2:23:19] 2000 will make them come and speak to us. So
[2:23:28] thank you. I mean, I jumped the gun when I
[2:23:30] said the 14th because in the past. It's always been
[2:23:33] a great thing. But now, based on the comments you
[2:23:36] made earlier about the office, not here. Some of the
[2:23:39] other concerns. I get it that you don't want. To
[2:23:42] defer. But on the same side, this, I think is
[2:23:43] very valid that we defer. This one. And until we
[2:23:46] get that further. Information. Because if this is true, that
[2:23:50] they're all, and we're doing the 14,000 we're doing all
[2:23:53] the work. Somebody's got to get the attention. But something.
[2:23:56] Changes. So I would defer and ask for that breakdown.
[2:23:59] And who's going to take over for the next year
[2:24:01] before we proceed to give you any money. I can
[2:24:05] reach out to county. I think the province has sort
[2:24:07] of put that back in my court is to reach
[2:24:10] out to county, and then they would want the crammy
[2:24:12] township in the county to reach out to the province
[2:24:14] collectively to say that this is going to be the
[2:24:16] transition process. Okay. Motion, then, is to defer this. Do
[2:24:24] we have a mover? In a second. Prescriber has to
[2:24:32] cruise. Okay, so to defer. Pending a report. All in
[2:24:39] favor? Aye, Arthur. I Hamilton ice driver. Van Eggman. Martin.
[2:24:48] I agree to defer. Colbert and cremey. If I may,
[2:24:55] just before we start. Yesterday, after the snow, I was
[2:24:58] in town and there was. A gang of kids with
[2:25:03] snow shovels that were going around doing laneways, and that
[2:25:07] needs to be mentioned because there are people within our
[2:25:09] own community. That I told them to get organized and
[2:25:14] have a contact point single because they were still looking.
[2:25:18] For other people to help. So just wanted to say
[2:25:20] that there are people that are helping. Ones who want
[2:25:23] a skate park. Could be. Yeah, I bet it is.
[2:25:32] Right. Okay. Nine. L. Colburn and Crammy Food bank. The
[2:25:37] resolution is, be it resolved. Council approved. And I defer
[2:25:40] this budget request in the amount of $5,000 to the
[2:25:44] culver. And crammy food bank. Could I remove her into
[2:25:46] second, or, please? Motion to approve. Second on eggman. Any
[2:25:52] discussion. All in favor? Aye, Arthur. I, Hamilton Ice
[2:26:01] driver. Ben Eggman. Aye, Martin. I approved nine m crammy
[2:26:08] horticultural society. Be it resolved that council approved, deny or
[2:26:13] defer this budget request in the amount of $2,500. To
[2:26:17] the Kareemi Horticultural Society. Could I have a mover into
[2:26:20] second? Or please. Move. Van Eggman, second scriber. Any discussion.
[2:26:29] All in favor?
[2:26:41] This amount of money is usually used to do the
[2:26:44] baskets in the downtown, throughout the downtown area. Et cetera
[2:26:48] and gardens. At entranceways and so on, Castleton. Colburn and
[2:26:57] whatever. And by the way, the bill is usually more
[2:27:00] than 2500 for those flowers and plants. And so on.
[2:27:05] So I'm calling the vote. All in favor? I, arthur.
[2:27:14] I hamilt? Ice driver van Eggman. Aye, Martin, I that
[2:27:20] is approved. Nine N. Colburn Public School. Be it resolved,
[2:27:25] that council approve, deny, defer this budget request. In the
[2:27:30] amount of $300 to the Colbert public school. Could I
[2:27:33] be mover in a second, please. Motion to approve. Second,
[2:27:39] Hamilton. Any discussion. All in favor? Aye, Arthur. I ham
[2:27:48] up ice driver Ben Eggman. Martin, I. That is approved.
[2:27:55] 9.0 Apple blossom Time Festival. Be it resolved that council
[2:28:00] approve, deny, deferred this budget request in the amount of
[2:28:03] $7,500. To the Apple blossom time festival. Could I have
[2:28:08] a mover into seconder? Please. Move scriber second to get
[2:28:12] it on the table. Discussion. Councilor hamilton.
[2:28:25] Thank you, Madam Mayor. I don't see any financials attached
[2:28:29] to this at all. Council shriver Jeffrey Madam mayor to
[2:28:35] members of council. So obviously, it was great to see
[2:28:37] this event. Re kick off this past year, and the
[2:28:44] weather was terrible, which is too bad, although I think
[2:28:46] the sun did come out on Saturday, if I remember
[2:28:48] right. But, yeah, the application just looks a bit rushed.
[2:28:53] Do you know off the top of your head? Rhubab
[2:28:55] what we know we offered. Space last year, I think.
[2:28:58] And do you happen to know that it didn't come
[2:29:00] through? A grant, but it would have came through. Well,
[2:29:04] maybe it is a grant, but it would have came
[2:29:05] later in the year. Remember we gave them the 2500.
[2:29:11] We can pull the application from last year and look
[2:29:13] at it, but I do remember the person. Coming in
[2:29:15] and making a presentation to council. I just don't know
[2:29:17] if there was a free use authorized, but we can
[2:29:20] look at that. Deputy Mayor Arthur thank you. And if
[2:29:25] I may, 1 of the concerns that I have is
[2:29:28] on item number five within the application. The additional funding
[2:29:31] is to help recover lost revenue from last year. So
[2:29:35] what is that that they paid for out of their
[2:29:37] pockets? That in addition to it's? Just concerning. And I
[2:29:43] through the rumor mail and the rumor mill, only I'm
[2:29:45] hearing that it's. A possibility. It's only going to be
[2:29:47] a one day event this year, versus two. I don't
[2:29:50] know if we have any backup. I would really like
[2:29:52] to see a presentation. By these people. As to possibility
[2:29:56] before I say jump to buy $5,000. So.
[2:30:09] I would suggest we make it 5000.
[2:30:21] I would agree with that. Mandy, this is something that
[2:30:25] we need. A festival back in Colburn. We used to
[2:30:29] have a farm fair at one time. Not even before
[2:30:32] my time, actually. It was on where the Keeler lands
[2:30:37] were at that time. There was room for improvement, but
[2:30:40] a lot of the things that went wrong were due
[2:30:43] to weather. Last time. This is a festival that could
[2:30:45] really take off here, and I want to point everybody
[2:30:49] to. The festival that they have in Brighton where you
[2:30:54] can't even move downtown on that day. So they have
[2:30:58] a concert in the evening, and I'd like to see
[2:31:01] it go that way. I don't think. That they need
[2:31:05] the full 7500. But I've got written down here also
[2:31:09] 5000. So do you want to make a motion or
[2:31:12] amend the motion or whatever? Man, Joel. So I don't
[2:31:20] disagree at all, Ed, but just where I struggle is
[2:31:22] I don't. See a balance sheet. Like, did they spend
[2:31:24] $50,000 last year, or did they spend $8,000 last year.
[2:31:27] You know what I mean? So I don't disagree. And
[2:31:32] 5000 seems like a nice number, but. I would like
[2:31:35] to see a balance sheet. Just understand what they actually
[2:31:38] spent last year. Because maybe. It's very justified that they
[2:31:43] should have more than that. But I just have no
[2:31:47] insight at all on this application other than. They're looking
[2:31:51] to recover costs, it looks like. So I would suggest
[2:31:55] that we make it 5000 contingent on them producing a
[2:31:59] report. We are now coming into the second month of
[2:32:03] 2025. We can't keep restudying all this stuff. So I
[2:32:11] think let's move on. 5000. We know what 5000 can
[2:32:15] do. We have enough experience with. These festivals, et cetera,
[2:32:20] et cetera. It's easy to spend $5,000. It's how they
[2:32:24] choose to spend it, and that's their business. And I
[2:32:27] think it is a success, and I have no problem
[2:32:29] with it being one day only. I mean, obviously the
[2:32:32] car factor last year was the most successful part of
[2:32:36] it all, really. That was really cool. Always has been.
[2:32:42] But times change and we have to go with the
[2:32:45] flow. I don't know what they've got planned, but I
[2:32:47] think 5000 investing in a festival for this community. Is.
[2:32:53] A good investment. And if I may, 5000 is definitely
[2:32:57] a good investment. But where's the money going? Because we're
[2:33:00] recovering last year's cost. So we don't release it until
[2:33:05] we receive a financial report based on the 2024. Event,
[2:33:09] please. That addresses my concern as well. I think we
[2:33:14] need to see the financials. I totally support. This festival's
[2:33:21] return. And last year, the main day, it did rain.
[2:33:25] I was there. It was awful. But it's weather dependent
[2:33:29] because it's an outdoor event. So we're going to always
[2:33:31] be facing that. I want us to support this festival,
[2:33:35] but I want this festival to be open with the
[2:33:39] taxpayer. About what's happening with those dollars. Yes. Rebap. I
[2:33:47] just like to clarify that I just heard a comment
[2:33:49] that maybe they, maybe will approve more so if we
[2:33:52] approve 5000 right now. With the limitation of them coming
[2:33:56] and making a presentation, we can't change that back to
[2:33:58] 7500 because it is being funded through taxation and we
[2:34:02] won't be able to change. That after the budget is
[2:34:04] approved. So if we only approve 5000. Then, however, they're
[2:34:07] doing the presentation, and maybe if we do feel that
[2:34:10] they probably should. Get more money, they would only be
[2:34:12] entitled to that 5000. So what is the resolution? Please,
[2:34:16] Holly. If councilor Scriber and Venna Eggman agree, it is
[2:34:26] to approve the funding of $5,000 to the apple Blossom
[2:34:28] Festival with a caveat that support of financials for 2024
[2:34:33] are to be presented before funding is released. All in
[2:34:39] favor? Aye, Arthur. Aye. Hamilton, ice driver.
[2:34:50] Ben eggman. Aye. Martin I resolution is carried. West north.
[2:34:55] Emily, physician recruitment. They're requesting $9,135. Be it resolved, the
[2:35:01] council approved. Deny, defer this. Budget request in this amount
[2:35:06] to the west earth. Amberland physician recruitment. Could I be
[2:35:09] mover? In a second, or, please. Moved Hamilton. Second, Arthur.
[2:35:19] Discussion. Councilor hamilton. So as a member of that
[2:35:29] board, who has sat with that board for nearly a
[2:35:33] year, I've learned a lot in a year. And. I'm
[2:35:41] supportive of a collaborative effort. No individual municipality is going
[2:35:45] to do this on their own. I do think we
[2:35:49] need to work as a collective with our neighbors in
[2:35:53] order to attract. Good primary health care to our community.
[2:35:59] Having said that. I just came from Roma. And the
[2:36:05] final panel was a healthcare panel. And the chair or
[2:36:10] president. Maybe that's his title. Of the Oma. Was describing.
[2:36:18] Payments to doctors to attract them as the hunger games.
[2:36:24] He said it repeatedly throughout his presentation. This is a
[2:36:26] 33 year old doctor who's taken on the presidency of
[2:36:29] the OMA. I think some of our neighbors are doing
[2:36:33] this. They're putting funds towards attracting dockers. We already know
[2:36:37] that. Docs on the bay, or docs by the bay,
[2:36:41] or whatever they call themselves, or giving $100,000 to a
[2:36:44] doctor to bring them in. It brings them in temporarily,
[2:36:46] it does. But the reality is. We need to be
[2:36:52] more creative. About. How we look at providing. Primary health
[2:36:59] care to our residents. The municipalities. Are already. Funding provincial
[2:37:08] programs to the tune of $68 billion a year. $68
[2:37:14] billion a year. Subsidized. On provincial programs by municipalities. Is.
[2:37:22] I don't want to use the word criminal, but it's
[2:37:24] terrible that's. A terrible number to know that. We only
[2:37:29] have very limited tools with which to gain our tax
[2:37:34] dollars. And we're supporting. Programs that should be provincial. I
[2:37:40] guess I could whine all day about that. But. I'm
[2:37:45] as supportive as I am of a collaborative effort with
[2:37:47] other municipalities. I'm concerned about how much money can be
[2:37:52] burned through while we go down the wrong path. I
[2:37:56] agree with that. We're near the bottom of that step
[2:38:02] ladder. In a group like this. I would rather take
[2:38:10] that money. Find a third year met student and say,
[2:38:15] hey, give us two years or give us a chance.
[2:38:17] To. Be your first place of residency. And. We will
[2:38:23] take care of your education at the tune of 10,000.
[2:38:27] Maybe that's. Illegal? I don't know, but it seems like
[2:38:29] a far better way than to throw our money into
[2:38:31] a pot. That really hasn't helped us in ten years.
[2:38:36] And I know the names have changed. But the idea
[2:38:41] is the same. Well, I sit on that committee, too.
[2:38:49] And. I can no longer support it. I simply can
[2:38:57] no longer support it because I think it's being hijacked.
[2:39:01] The whole committee is being hijacked, and I'm being very
[2:39:03] blunt here and probably be shocked at dawn for this.
[2:39:07] But. There are power games going on. And I will
[2:39:14] be blunt about this, too. I think the hospital. Is
[2:39:19] really protecting its own drive. To recruit doctors. And they're
[2:39:25] trying to sort of take over the recruitment processes and
[2:39:29] programs that have been proposed. I think this Ontario health
[2:39:33] team, Northumberland, which started out with cooperatively all kinds of
[2:39:37] people collaborating. And it had good legs. But. It's being
[2:39:43] undermined. By the hospital. I'll be that blunt. And by
[2:39:48] a few of the doctors who want to protect who
[2:39:51] they recruit and how they recruit. So I cannot support
[2:39:56] this. I'm tired of going to meetings. And saying, we
[2:40:01] should do this and we should do that, and they're
[2:40:03] preparing an ad. For recruitment at whatever. And yes to
[2:40:08] me. It's extraordinarily insulting to me. That people are offering.
[2:40:13] Doctors are offered $100,000 to come to your community as
[2:40:17] they did in Brighton, for example. Two years into the
[2:40:20] game. Which was the term that they were minimum to
[2:40:24] state. The day after that expired, that doctor resigned. That
[2:40:31] to me is not acceptable, not on. And I think
[2:40:37] that's a waste of money. I think we have more
[2:40:40] falling nose, having really researched the Norwood situation, where Norwood
[2:40:45] and the municipality invested in a building, invested in an
[2:40:49] office building, provided the office building. Actually. Supply, administrative support.
[2:40:57] So that a doctor can come in and set up
[2:40:59] shop. And there it is. Because what they don't like
[2:41:02] is assuming all the office work and the administration and
[2:41:04] the paperwork, they just want to come in and practice
[2:41:08] medicine. And that's how they're doing it, and I think
[2:41:12] that's very innovative. And positive, rather than handing somebody a
[2:41:19] check for 100,000 saying, Have a nice life. We've got
[2:41:24] to be more innovative and welcoming in the community. So
[2:41:29] I'm not altogether popular with this committee right at the
[2:41:32] moment, of course. But I'm done. I cannot support it.
[2:41:36] I just cannot. Yes, you may. Thank you, Madam Mayor,
[2:41:44] everyone in the room is aware that in Crammy township
[2:41:47] we recently. Formed a healthcare needs committee. That committee has
[2:41:51] had the opportunity to meet. Twice. And as far as
[2:41:57] I know, in our February meeting, we will actually be
[2:42:00] hearing from the Norwood example. Now, first numbers that I
[2:42:05] heard from Norwood were that it was costing taxpayers annually
[2:42:10] about a quarter of a million dollars to support a
[2:42:13] team. Of three or four doctors, a nurse practitioner and
[2:42:17] other modalities, all in the same building. That. They didn't
[2:42:22] build the building, but they provided signatures that allowed the
[2:42:27] developer to get money. From the bank. So it's a
[2:42:29] creative process as a combination of public private interests that
[2:42:34] move this forward, but currently there are no orphan patients
[2:42:38] in that area that I'm aware. Of so. There are
[2:42:42] models out there. I'm actually encouraged that the Ford government
[2:42:45] has hired Jane, Phil. Pot, too, because if you read
[2:42:48] her book, healthcare for all is quite a different model
[2:42:51] than what we currently live under in terms of health
[2:42:54] care. I'm going to also say that housing has eclipsed
[2:42:58] healthcare as a provincial concern and it's because our health
[2:43:01] care facilities are telling us that housing is the number
[2:43:04] one driver. Of lineups in the emergency wards now. So
[2:43:10] this is a huge issue. I think. Our health care
[2:43:15] needs committee here in Cranby Township is really just in
[2:43:18] the discovery phase. Of what our community needs are. So
[2:43:23] I would be in favor of. Focusing more on that
[2:43:26] as a community, but we do have to absolutely maintain
[2:43:30] partnerships with our surrounding communities because. Health care is such
[2:43:36] a bigger issue. Anyway. I guess that's all I'm going
[2:43:41] to say. And you are right, Mandy, compared to what
[2:43:44] is being said about giving doctors the 100 grand or
[2:43:48] whatever communities happen to be giving. They're doing all kinds
[2:43:51] of little things to attract doctors. The head of the
[2:43:56] OMA, Dr. Dominic Novak, says what doctors really want is.
[2:44:01] To work in teams. They want to be multidisciplinary. They
[2:44:05] don't want the 1600 patient load that is currently projected.
[2:44:11] They want smaller caseloads. They want to be able to
[2:44:12] take vacations just like other people. So we need to
[2:44:16] look at it differently. And I have to agree with
[2:44:20] you. I'm not confident that this committee is on the
[2:44:23] right path and the power struggles are obvious. Well,
[2:44:32] this took an unexpected and very pleasant path, so I'm
[2:44:36] quite inspired.
[2:45:11] If I can say just because I. I sit on
[2:45:13] that board. And I'm wavering with support, so I will
[2:45:21] pull back my motion. And motion to decline. Second van
[2:45:28] Eggman. I will say it is difficult because I know
[2:45:33] that they have in the past done some great but
[2:45:36] now with the information that you have as well as
[2:45:38] Sherry's provided, I have to. Say aye, herther. Epstein.
[2:45:54] Ice driver Ben Eggman. I. Martin, I. Ms declined. Nine
[2:46:03] cube, Brighton auxiliary rescue unit. Be it resolved that council
[2:46:08] approved, deny or defer this budget request in the amount
[2:46:10] of $1,500. To the Brighton auxiliary rescue unit, but I
[2:46:14] have a mover in a second. Please. Move, scriber. Second,
[2:46:20] Hamilton. Any discussion. All in favor? Hi, Arthur.
[2:46:33] Ihama ice grabber benigmund. Aye, Martin, I that is approved.
[2:46:40] Nine r Northumberland Humane Society. Be it resolved, that council
[2:46:43] approved and I defer this budget request. In the amount
[2:46:46] of $1,000 to the Northumberland Humane Society. Could I have
[2:46:50] a mover? In a second, or please. Move, Scrabber.
[2:47:05] Second Arthur for discussion. All in favor? Oh, discussion, rather.
[2:47:12] Excuse me. There's no information given, really, that no backup
[2:47:17] as to what this is for. And currently what I'm
[2:47:24] trying to think what do we have now for if
[2:47:26] we have the lost dogs. What is our current. Shelter
[2:47:31] policy.
[2:47:43] From what I'm hearing, it's about $1,500 quarterly with the
[2:47:47] humane. Society right now. With the bylaw, they entered into
[2:47:49] a new agreement with them, I believe, last year, the
[2:47:51] year before. Yeah, that
[2:48:01] was. Sorry. So we pay $6,000 annually. For pretty much.
[2:48:10] I think most of the services are the same that
[2:48:11] we pay for, and this is, in addition to that,
[2:48:14] This is the first time you receive this application. You've
[2:48:17] already got my 135, so I'm not giving them any.
[2:48:28] Yes, through you, Madam Mayor. I was just curious to
[2:48:30] see if there was any more information related. To this.
[2:48:33] But while it would be charitable, I'm personally not in
[2:48:37] the mood. Okay. The motion is to deny. Could I
[2:48:41] have a vote, please? Hi, arsenal.
[2:48:51] Aye. Hammer. Ice driver. Vinnick. Manai. Martin. I. It is
[2:48:56] denied. Nine S. Royal Canadian Legion. Branch 187. Be it
[2:49:01] resolved, council approved. And I defer this budget request in
[2:49:04] the amount of $1,000 to the Royal Canadian Legion branch.
[2:49:08] 187. Could I have a mover into. Seconder. Please. Motion
[2:49:13] to approve. Second van Eggman. Any discussion. All in favor?
[2:49:22] Aye, Arthur. Aye. Hamilton Ice driver Bennett. Martin. I it
[2:49:29] is approved. 19 Castleton pet parade. Be it resolved that
[2:49:35] council approved deny or defer this budget request. In the
[2:49:39] amount of $500 to the castleton pet parade. Could I
[2:49:42] have a mover? In a second, or, please. Motion to
[2:49:46] approve. Second. Hamilton, any discussion? All in favor?
[2:49:58] Through you, Madam mayor, to members of council. So I'm
[2:50:00] just reopening this because. I can't recall, but am I
[2:50:03] right to say, traditionally, that we've offered these guys free
[2:50:06] facility and. This is separate from that.
[2:50:16] Yes. They use the Castleton town hall as a meeting.
[2:50:19] And the library opened too, to host. People.
[2:50:29] And then, as you said, 500 for insurance.
[2:50:39] We have a resolution. Prove. Deny, whatever. Hello? Calling it
[2:50:47] a vote in approval. Aye, hersa. Aye.
[2:50:57] Hammock ice driver Benny. Martin, I. That is approved. Nine.
[2:51:05] You. Music in the square. Be it resolved, the council
[2:51:09] approved deny or defer this budget. Request in the amount
[2:51:12] of $1,500 to music in the square. Could I remove
[2:51:16] her? In a seconder, please. Move to Hamilton. I'll second
[2:51:23] get it on the floor. Please. Councilor ben eggman. Oh,
[2:51:33] sorry. Did they have music in square last year? They
[2:51:38] did. Okay, so it was done. I was just unclear
[2:51:43] because I know that for a time there they had
[2:51:46] said, well, forget about it. And so I don't know
[2:51:49] what happened there, that's all. Through you, madam mayor. So,
[2:51:53] yeah, the music in the square, the traditional crew was
[2:51:57] able to find the support they required and I think
[2:51:59] proceeded last year. But this is a separate application. Do
[2:52:02] we know anything else, that it's not separate, it's the
[2:52:04] same. Okay, Bill, are you able to provide a background?
[2:52:09] I'm curious. So my understanding is that it's been taken
[2:52:15] over by community living and respite. North Dumberland this year
[2:52:19] and. Those are the people who are requesting this funding.
[2:52:34] Yes, Councilor Hamilton. If I remember correctly, they had an
[2:52:39] issue with not being able to do their 50 50
[2:52:41] rackle. Raffle tickets because. It was through the alcohol and
[2:52:46] Gaming Commission, they would have needed a charity to oversee.
[2:52:51] Or something like that. And so I think that's why
[2:52:54] we're seeing this over. Overseeing organization, doing the application on
[2:52:59] their behalf. Traditionally, we supported this in the
[2:53:08] past. How much have we done in the past? 600,
[2:53:13] so we've given them 623 and 624.
[2:53:23] And if I may. Again. They had the entire year
[2:53:28] last year. I know it got off to a late
[2:53:29] start, but they as the group got it. And again,
[2:53:32] no financial background. All it says is to help enhance,
[2:53:35] but no information, so I'm good with the 600 we've
[2:53:37] done in the past.
[2:53:50] Sandra, could you live with 750? Halfway to the 1500.
[2:53:55] Going once, going twice. So I was going to suggest
[2:54:01] 1000, but 750 would be a good compromise. So is
[2:54:11] that for discussion now? Because I think it should be
[2:54:14] the full 1500. It's an amazing attraction. To the town.
[2:54:22] It's such an asset. We don't have to drag. In.
[2:54:27] The amps and all that stuff. I think it's a
[2:54:29] showcase. I think it's. A good investment. And furthermore, it
[2:54:33] isn't just a one off event. It goes through the
[2:54:36] summer months. Eight weeks, I think. It should be supported.
[2:54:44] It's good value for the money. And people love it.
[2:54:50] If I may. Madamira, I agree with you. This event
[2:54:53] for over an eight week period attracts. A lot of
[2:54:55] people within our community and to our community. So.
[2:55:05] It's. A very good. Friendly thing. Music brings people together.
[2:55:12] Also like to note that the downtown businesses, some of
[2:55:15] the downtown businesses, become quite creative with it. Yes, they
[2:55:22] stay open for the evening. And retro we won. Does
[2:55:24] ice cream specials and so on. And the Royal does
[2:55:28] a special menu, et cetera. Takeout and so on. I
[2:55:32] think it's a good thing. I think it boosts everyone.
[2:55:36] And when businesses honor it that way, they go the
[2:55:39] extra step. That should be honored, I think. I then
[2:55:46] only have one question. What will the funds actually fund?
[2:55:57] They pay for the bands. Bottom line. And a band
[2:56:02] can be anywhere from 750 to 1500. So it may
[2:56:05] be just one special headliner. Quote. Local headliner group or
[2:56:11] whatever. Plus. They do. There are other things that turn
[2:56:16] up. For example? They need a sound system or a
[2:56:19] new mic or whatever. It's easy to go through 1500.
[2:56:25] When you're dealing with live music. The only thing I'll
[2:56:34] add. I know Chris isn't here and I don't. Believe
[2:56:37] we charge for the rental of the park any longer.
[2:56:43] But I do believe there is staff associated with overtime.
[2:56:47] And all those things as well. The township is very
[2:56:49] supportive of it. We also put the Porta potties in
[2:56:53] the park for the season. So you need to support
[2:56:58] that, if only to support the porta bodies. Well.
[2:57:11] I tend to agree with the 1500.
[2:57:30] I will change my motion then to 1500 full amount.
[2:57:38] Through you, Madamora. So I'll play devil's advocate, because I
[2:57:43] find it annoying. That they didn't do anything on this
[2:57:45] application, but if you really need $5000, I think I'd
[2:57:48] actually fill out the application. What I was going to
[2:57:52] use it for, so it makes me believe they actually
[2:57:54] really probably don't. Even need the money. So I'd like
[2:57:58] to see us be a little more stringent on accountability,
[2:58:00] on the money coming and going and what it's being
[2:58:02] used for. 1500, 700, it doesn't really matter. It's a
[2:58:06] drop in the bucket. But it's kind of the principle
[2:58:09] of being such a poor application. Just on one quick
[2:58:13] note, maybe what we do then is our applications for
[2:58:16] municipal grants now have must apply or must attach financial
[2:58:21] document, right? Or we don't accept. So maybe that's what
[2:58:26] we do for the future. Then that way they haven't
[2:58:28] met the criteria. If it doesn't come. I would second
[2:58:32] that motion. I'm going to call a vote on
[2:58:42] 1500 for approval. Hi, Arthur.
[2:58:52] I hamilton. Ice driver. Van Eggman. Aye. Martin, I. The
[2:58:59] resolution is carried. And if I may, then I'll make
[2:59:04] a motion that for the 2026 that our application for
[2:59:08] municipal grants is altered to show that financial information is
[2:59:13] required. Balance sheet. Balance sheet is required. Second hammock. All
[2:59:22] in favor? Aye, Arthur. Ice grabber benign. Martin
[2:59:31] I. Resolution is carried. Open forum. Members of the public
[2:59:36] have three minutes to ask general questions. And are not
[2:59:39] to enter into debate. Please state your name and address
[2:59:42] for the records. Each member may speak only once.
[2:59:57] I can't see against the light. So, do we need
[3:00:03] to discuss the next meeting under new business? Next budget
[3:00:08] meeting, please. Options are.
[3:00:19] The budget meeting is currently scheduled for Wednesday being January
[3:00:22] 29. And our only other option, mainly because of the
[3:00:30] availability of the Keeler center of the hall. We're sitting
[3:00:32] in right now is going to be Monday, February 3.
[3:00:36] So we either stick with our original date of the
[3:00:39] 29th, which also means that we'll have to update everything.
[3:00:42] Over the weekend. Post the agenda by Sunday and council
[3:00:46] members of council have Monday. And Tuesday to review the
[3:00:49] binder and be ready to discuss that information on Wednesday.
[3:00:53] Or we set up the meeting for Monday, February 3.
[3:00:57] Thank you. The only thing that I'll add to that
[3:01:00] is I cannot attend on Wednesday, February 3. The 29th.
[3:01:07] The Wednesday the 29th. I can't make that. Yes, I
[3:01:16] can probably be zoomed, but I'm on my own that
[3:01:19] day, so I could be taken away in the situation,
[3:01:22] so I can't guarantee that I'll be at my desk
[3:01:24] that full day. Just in the interest of having.
[3:01:36] More time with the binder. I would benefit from the
[3:01:39] third, but I can do either day by getting it
[3:01:43] on Monday is a quick turnaround. Otherwise. And I have
[3:01:49] county on February 3, but 01:00. And a public works
[3:01:55] committee, and then I have a tour of the Golden
[3:01:57] Plow Lodge and. A special council meeting at 02:00 p.m.
[3:02:00] on the third, but I can. Be there in the
[3:02:03] morning. Pardon? We need you here. So that's my caveat.
[3:02:11] Can it be done in the morning? Can we do
[3:02:13] it? We can start in the morning. We usually do
[3:02:17] start in the morning. Might not get through all of
[3:02:22] it, which means we'll have to probably select another date.
[3:02:24] But, yeah, we can start morning in the morning and
[3:02:27] see when we have to stop.
[3:02:40] So maybe. Can we ask the killer centers where we're
[3:02:43] having our meetings? Can. God forbid. I don't know why
[3:02:48] we don't have attendance. Everybody likes to. Whatever, but we
[3:02:51] don't have the attendance. Can we go back to the.
[3:02:54] Town hall, council chambers. For that. It can't be hybrid
[3:02:59] because we're only set up here now.
[3:03:23] I can only do zoom on the 29th, and I
[3:03:26] can't guarantee that I'll. Be at the desk all day.
[3:03:36] The time with the binder. It's going to be like
[3:03:38] the only two days. We can start with Monday on
[3:03:46] February 3 and then see how far we get. And
[3:03:49] then maybe you'll have more dates available at that time
[3:03:51] to see when the next meeting can be. Scheduled at
[3:03:54] this point. Let's just get them in calendar. I think
[3:04:01] it'd be better just to get them in calendar.
[3:04:57] That's the same date as the healthcare needs committee. The
[3:05:06] 10th. Yes, we could. And it will depend. They've invited
[3:05:16] a couple of delegations to that. Meeting.
[3:05:31] Only the operational budget that we're going over. Sorry. Well,
[3:05:38] I meant to say that we've already addressed the issue
[3:05:39] papers which do seem to tend to take longer. So
[3:05:44] we have already addressed most of them. So operational budget,
[3:05:48] yes, will take up few hours, but not as long
[3:05:50] as it usually does because we've separated the two items
[3:05:52] together. Sorry. Are we suggesting that we not put in
[3:05:58] any time on February 3 and just move it to
[3:06:02] the 10th or are we going to start on the
[3:06:04] third with the potential of continuing on the 10th. I
[3:06:08] would suggest starting on the third and then maybe do
[3:06:11] half a day on the third. And maybe we can
[3:06:13] start the meeting on the 10th if. You have the
[3:06:16] other meeting? Maybe we can start at twelve. If an
[3:06:19] hour is enough for the. Meeting. We can maybe start
[3:06:21] at twelve or even one and then we can go
[3:06:23] past the 05:00. Mark on February 10. That way we
[3:06:28] have two days lined up for that. Through you, Madam
[3:06:32] mayor, to members of council. We can also piggyback on
[3:06:34] the 11th, which is your council meeting too? Your committee,
[3:06:38] but we can call a special council meeting before the
[3:06:40] committee meeting so that you can. Piggyback onto that. So.
[3:06:51] If I may rub up. When's our binders coming to
[3:06:53] us? I will try to get it Monday, Tuesday as
[3:06:57] soon as possible. Just a couple of changes that I
[3:06:59] have to make after the takeaways from this meeting. Just
[3:07:02] need the time to make those changes. Print the binders
[3:07:04] and have them ready for pickup. Early next week. Okay,
[3:07:12] so that gives us a week with the binders, and
[3:07:14] if we go on February 3, okay.
[3:07:28] So three of mayor to members of council. It would
[3:07:30] be February 3, half day we can start. As early
[3:07:34] as 830 in the morning. We'll start at 830 on
[3:07:38] the February the third. We'll go till weekend. You have
[3:07:42] to leave by what time? Say one. No, I'm at
[3:07:45] meeting strips at one. So I can go. After 1230
[3:07:51] and we'll see how far we get. And then from
[3:07:53] there we can. Reschedule whether we come back on the
[3:07:55] 10th or you can finish before committee of the whole
[3:07:57] on the 11th. Sure. We'll do half day on the
[3:08:05] 10th. We'll book it so that you. Have it in
[3:08:07] your calendars and it will start at twelve. Is that
[3:08:11] okay? Sharing? I would suggest you start at one. One.
[3:08:16] So we'll start at one. On the 10th. Delegation is
[3:08:24] coming to that committee. Fair enough. So we'll start at
[3:08:28] one on the 10th, and then we'll go. Till we
[3:08:30] finish.
[3:08:53] Out of a mover in a second. Or please, for
[3:08:54] the confirming bylaw. Moved, Arthur. Second van acman. All
[3:09:04] in favor? Aye. Arthur. Aye. Hamilton, ice driver. Benegman.
[3:09:14] I. And then councilor van Egman. Oh, madamir, before you
[3:09:20] go. Any idea when the public is going to get
[3:09:24] a copy of the budget? The amount of mayor to
[3:09:33] members of council. The meeting will be on the third,
[3:09:39] so agenda will have to be posted by. This Friday.
[3:09:45] Thursday. Friday of this week. Next. Week. Sorry. I'm sorry.
[3:09:52] Yes. So, the 30th? Are you asking for a final?
[3:10:01] Issue papers and so on have been posted online. Already.
[3:10:06] The rest of the budget. Right. On the 30th. January
[3:10:12] 30 on the 30th. Yes, thank you. Motion to adjourn.
[3:10:23] Second scriber. All in favor? Aye, Arthur. Aye. Hamilton, ice
[3:10:31] driver. Benigmund. Aye.