1 00:00:00,719 --> 00:00:05,879 Call me county official for July 106 2 00:00:07,040 --> 00:00:17,080 to the flag of the United States of America and 3 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:17,080 it stands nation 4 00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:22,039 with all 5 00:00:23,119 --> 00:00:26,519 previous meeting 6 00:00:27,599 --> 00:00:35,440 previous meeting that I sign the motions. 7 00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:38,760 » First motion 26-311 to approve the consent agenda. 8 00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:49,640 26-312 to recess the open meeting and go into 9 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:49,640 executive session to discuss RJA 10 00:00:52,399 --> 00:00:59,800 26-313 Executive session to discuss the health 11 00:00:55,920 --> 00:00:59,800 department director applicants 12 00:01:00,260 --> 00:01:02,280 [snorts] 13 00:01:02,719 --> 00:01:07,680 26-314 executive session to discuss health 14 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:11,040 director health department director applications 15 00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:21,560 26-315 executive session to discuss legal 16 00:01:16,960 --> 00:01:21,560 advice regarding projects 17 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:29,720 and 26-316 executive session to discuss road 18 00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:29,720 bridge. 19 00:01:48,731 --> 00:01:50,751 » [snorts] 20 00:01:51,840 --> 00:02:00,240 » Thank you. Thank you, Lisa. >> Thank you, commissioners. 21 00:01:57,200 --> 00:02:06,399 » All right. Looks like we're going to start with the 22 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:10,160 reason for everyone's here today. Um, we have zoning Mr. May Smith, Mr. Joshua 23 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:13,520 Allen, presenting the planning and zoning recommendations. 24 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:19,440 » Start us off. >> You get to start us off. What we'll do 25 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:26,000 the day today. Good morning. >> Good morning, commissioners. 26 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:28,800 Um to begin this, as you have in front of you, you have motions of 27 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:33,920 recommendation u that have been presented by the 28 00:02:31,599 --> 00:02:37,280 planning zoning commission for Crawford County. 29 00:02:35,519 --> 00:02:43,840 Um to go through and explain these, we went 30 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:49,040 through and voted article by article. The reason why we did article by article 31 00:02:45,920 --> 00:02:54,800 instead of voting it as a book as a book and hold is to allow the commissioners 32 00:02:52,000 --> 00:03:00,319 to decide if there are additions and corrections for each individual article 33 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:06,400 that we wouldn't have to send the entire book back but only that article. 34 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:12,480 And that way it will streamline the process and keep us on a better time 35 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:19,440 limits that we need to be on. Um also included in these 36 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:26,159 motions of recommendation there are also uh certain things that should be added 37 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:30,640 index page represent or ref referencing applications 38 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:34,319 a different different form style things that would have to be approved at a 39 00:03:32,159 --> 00:03:37,840 later date but the actual idea of them will be put into these motions of 40 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:41,799 recommendation. The final approval of the form will be a policy. 41 00:03:42,799 --> 00:03:50,319 As you're coming through this, these motions of recommendations go by article 42 00:03:46,879 --> 00:03:54,080 on article in numerical order and it definitely excludes other types of 43 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:59,439 articles that we chose to exclude altogether. 44 00:03:56,480 --> 00:04:03,599 The last part of these motions of recommendations is the final motion of 45 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:11,760 recommendation on the issue of countywide zoning. 46 00:04:08,159 --> 00:04:16,400 Uh which would be to zone Crawford County by the full meets and bounds of 47 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:21,519 all unincorporated areas of Crawford County, Kansas. 48 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:26,160 And so today what we will do I will give you sort of a procedure is in front of 49 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:30,080 you uh you have the zoning recommendations that we have passed at 50 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:35,440 the planning zoning commission. There are a few um scrier errors and things 51 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:39,360 like that that need to be changed as well as one or two additional amendments 52 00:04:37,919 --> 00:04:45,440 that might need to be brought back before the commission. 53 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:49,840 Along with that there has been submitted public comment 54 00:04:47,840 --> 00:04:56,720 um specifically uh uh as uh submitted and in front of 55 00:04:53,440 --> 00:05:02,400 the commissioners you have uh public comment from a Russell Smith 56 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:07,919 of Deer Creek and uh Timothy Kundinger 57 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:11,919 of uh a business owner there in Pittsburgh, Kansas. 58 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:16,880 Those are the two specific written public 59 00:05:13,840 --> 00:05:25,759 comments that we have today. During our uh approval meeting, there 60 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:30,479 were participants within the uh crowd in the public audience as well. Uh we 61 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:36,639 accepted questions and responses from them. Uh those have been considered as 62 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:41,280 well into these recommendations. At this time, um, I will leave it up to 63 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:44,960 you as the commissioners to determine what order you would like to take this. 64 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:50,800 If you would like to go with the meats and bounds issue first or if you would 65 00:05:47,759 --> 00:05:58,160 like to go with the book and article by article amendments first, 66 00:05:54,639 --> 00:06:02,080 what do you recommend, Jim? >> We can go either way. Josh can go 67 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:05,840 through article by article. It's kind of how it's presented. All right. Or we can 68 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:10,639 start kind of wind up. It doesn't matter. 69 00:06:07,919 --> 00:06:12,400 Doesn't matter to me. All has to be addressed. So, 70 00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:17,039 » yes, >> let's just go article by article. Here 71 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:22,639 we go. >> All right. Starting off with article 72 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:30,720 one. This is our title and purpose page. Um, this is your basic statement of 73 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:36,960 rules and how the um the affiliation is supposed to go. um basically outlines 74 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:39,440 the scope. >> Is this anywhere on where I can put it 75 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:45,280 on? >> It should be on the website. 76 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:51,160 » That's okay. >> Sure. 77 00:06:47,919 --> 00:06:51,160 » You're fine. 78 00:06:52,639 --> 00:07:01,319 I'm going to make sure I keep hydrated here during the last meeting of 79 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:01,319 your eye. 80 00:07:06,409 --> 00:07:08,429 » [clears throat] 81 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:19,440 » Josh, it's fair to say definitions, all that stuff pretty standard. It's just 82 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:24,639 nothing specific to Crawford County. It's just a pretty much generic 83 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:29,360 » correct view of what each word or grouping words means. Correct. 84 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:34,639 » Correct. There are specific definitions in there that are legal in uh size and 85 00:07:32,479 --> 00:07:39,440 scope. Uh mainly talking about manufactured homes versus mobile homes 86 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:44,319 versus travel trailers and things such as that. Those give dimensional um 87 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:52,639 definitions to be able to differentiate between the types. Um but um overall 88 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:59,759 the definitions that are presented in article 2, which we'll get to in a 89 00:07:54,319 --> 00:08:04,639 second, um outside of a few um additions to those definitions that are 90 00:08:02,319 --> 00:08:11,720 included to be comprehensive throughout the entire uh 91 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:11,720 the entire book. 92 00:08:12,319 --> 00:08:19,879 So going past the table of contents here, you'll start it on page four. 93 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:27,840 This is article one. These were that's basically giving us 94 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:33,919 our title. It's our zoning regulations. It gives the statutory uh inferences and 95 00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:40,560 allowances. It gives you the idea of how public zoning is supposed to go, what 96 00:08:36,399 --> 00:08:45,760 and how and why we zone. Um variety of zoning districts. It gives just a basic 97 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:49,040 overlay of everything. The last thing here 98 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:58,480 um is the jurisdictional part on page four 99 00:08:54,080 --> 00:09:04,320 or [clears throat] five on your sorry once again my working document is 100 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:09,600 a little bit different. Um, but the jurisdictional statement at 101 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:18,320 the bottom is the one thing that could change depending on later votes because 102 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:24,800 this one proposes an approval. Um, and before we would approve article one, I 103 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:29,200 would uh argue and and tell you that we would have to design that count or 104 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:34,080 decide that countywide because the jurisdictional statement would then have 105 00:09:31,279 --> 00:09:39,760 to change [snorts] to specifically those things that are indicated in the current 106 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:44,240 uh county zoning map. And we would go through and have to actually point out 107 00:09:42,399 --> 00:09:48,880 the meats and mouths for the sections that are included. and the sections that 108 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:53,200 are not included. And it gets a little bit more of a complicated jurisdictional 109 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:57,839 statement at that point. And so at this time, I'm not asking for an approval of 110 00:09:55,680 --> 00:10:04,519 article one, but mainly to table it until we decide the moment uh or the 111 00:10:00,399 --> 00:10:04,519 nature of countywide zoning. 112 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:12,399 Article two is a rules and interpretations as well as definition 113 00:10:09,680 --> 00:10:17,519 section. This is a section that we've spent an exceptional amount of time. Uh 114 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:22,640 the rules are general rules that we use for interpretation uh explaining things 115 00:10:20,399 --> 00:10:28,800 such as conjunctions, technical terms, non-technical terms, how we apply rules 116 00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:33,760 and different meanings as well as overlapping or contradictory meanings. 117 00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:38,880 Um these are pretty well standard throughout. We have a severability 118 00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:43,839 clause that goes in and says if one part is found to be nonapplicable or 119 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:48,399 non-compliant that it doesn't mean that the entire book or the entire article is 120 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:51,920 non-compliant. It is just that specific thing 121 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:56,480 going through the definition sections there are certain things that are 122 00:10:54,480 --> 00:11:01,200 definition put in to be congruent throughout. So a land lot size for 123 00:10:59,279 --> 00:11:07,839 agricultural use. What you'll see in here is also in conjunction with the 124 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:13,120 same land lot sizes that we put for the agricultural district. 125 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:17,760 Same thing with residential things like that. But overall, the definitions 126 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:25,360 themselves are all standard definitions that have been either used in our prior 127 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:29,120 uh zoning rules that we currently have or have been approved through other 128 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:33,240 planning and zoning to have their regular meetings at that time. 129 00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:43,360 specifically to go through a very specific highlight of this and what we 130 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:52,160 have disguised or talked about at uh quite a bit is having the on page 18 131 00:11:49,519 --> 00:11:56,720 having definitions of their legal meanings for licensed providers and 132 00:11:54,880 --> 00:12:02,160 making sure that we point specifically to the statutes for those instead of 133 00:11:58,959 --> 00:12:05,920 giving them their own definitions here. lot coverage. Those are standard 134 00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:13,360 technical terms that are used in planning uh planning and zoning rules. 135 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:21,440 What I really want to point out is definition on page 19 uh manufactured 136 00:12:17,279 --> 00:12:28,160 homes. This is always been a a issue within the county. uh reviewing uh some 137 00:12:25,279 --> 00:12:34,079 of the minutes that I had to go over from our last planning and zoning when 138 00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:38,320 you adopted this back in 2017. Manufactured homes, trailer homes, those 139 00:12:36,079 --> 00:12:42,959 things were an important thing at that point in time. And so we wanted to make 140 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:49,279 sure that the definition clearly defined the the differences between what a 141 00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:54,639 manufactured home is, what a mobile home is, what a travel home is, and those 142 00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:59,839 things. We decided to go specifically with and as you see here in this 143 00:12:56,480 --> 00:13:05,519 definition the federal code under the HUD code which gives it its actual 144 00:13:02,959 --> 00:13:10,399 definition will give it its more design and it's by its federal and legal 145 00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:16,639 standards. Same thing that we talked about modular 146 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:22,639 homes on page 20. We went with an international code term. While we do not 147 00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:27,920 have any or use any international code terms, for the purpose of this 148 00:13:24,959 --> 00:13:32,880 particular item, we adopted this international code term to allow us to 149 00:13:30,959 --> 00:13:36,880 give a clear definition for what a mobile or modular [clears throat] is 150 00:13:34,560 --> 00:13:42,720 going to be. Outside of that, the majority of all the 151 00:13:39,839 --> 00:13:50,639 rest of these are going to be uh specific to or just standard type or 152 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:56,959 sorry standard uh definitions throughout the book. The last definition I will 153 00:13:52,320 --> 00:14:02,720 point to is that on page 23, the residential design manufactured home. 154 00:14:00,560 --> 00:14:09,040 Um, this has a dimensional requirement and a foundational requirement. And 155 00:14:05,519 --> 00:14:14,399 those things that we put in those are to specifically give us ideas of how 156 00:14:12,560 --> 00:14:19,120 they're going to differentiate from the other definitions within the code. 157 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:21,360 Are there any questions or comments about article 2? 158 00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:27,920 » Yes. >> Okay. I figure there would be. Let's go. 159 00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:31,839 Uh, page eight accessory use. >> Okay. And I know on a zoning board and I 160 00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:35,360 know we have some zoning board members here. Appreciate their work and spent a 161 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:41,360 lot of time on this, but I know one of the topics that May continually 162 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:47,519 addresses is what uh what types of homes are are allowed and and what areas and 163 00:14:44,959 --> 00:14:54,160 accessory use talks about uh subordinate use on a on a uh on a 164 00:14:50,959 --> 00:14:57,760 main that's page page eight there, Lisa. um 165 00:14:55,839 --> 00:15:04,399 including like tennis courts, swimming pools, air conditioners, etc. to include 166 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:08,079 uh the modular container home, uh a tiny home, and a mother-in-law 167 00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:11,040 suite. So, I just I just wanted to point that out that that would be allowed 168 00:15:09,519 --> 00:15:16,880 those will be allowed as an accessory use on a on a property as the way the 169 00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:19,839 definition sits. Um and that may be a little different than what we've used to 170 00:15:18,639 --> 00:15:23,360 what we used to have. So, I'm just pointing that out. Not 171 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:28,320 » I'm happy to go over that specifically. So we went through and had this long 172 00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:35,120 conversation about the practicalities of what we are experiencing in the county 173 00:15:30,399 --> 00:15:40,000 today is that in giving specific consideration to bringing in an 174 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:45,199 excessively large amount of land that has previously been unzone. 175 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:51,279 » Yes. We wanted to be more inclusive of things that you would see out there, 176 00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:56,959 including some things that we have noticed throughout the county, including 177 00:15:53,199 --> 00:16:01,839 tiny homes. Uh as you noticed on 69 highway, there is a container home 178 00:15:59,279 --> 00:16:08,880 builder that would fall under this uh this type of building uh model. As well 179 00:16:06,399 --> 00:16:14,079 as things that we have noticed with mother-in-law sweeps or some type of 180 00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:18,320 living apartment or compartment above a garage that may not be attached to a 181 00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:26,480 building. That would be what we would consider a mother-in-law suite. or under 182 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:30,320 your old code, any work garage, metal shop, or anything that had a restroom 183 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:36,000 and a kitchen and it would have qualified for a an additional 184 00:16:33,759 --> 00:16:41,920 residential property that would not have been allowed under the new code. And the 185 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:47,040 reason why we added this in is to be more inclusive of those properties that 186 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:50,320 we would have seen in the full meets and bounds of the county, not just 187 00:16:48,639 --> 00:16:58,000 necessarily what's currently in the zoned area. What we are trying to do is 188 00:16:54,639 --> 00:17:03,680 the old book was fairly stringent and straightforward about disallowing very 189 00:17:00,399 --> 00:17:09,360 specific things. By allowing these things as accessory uses, it gives us 190 00:17:06,079 --> 00:17:13,679 also more maneuverability as our changing standards come that we can 191 00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:19,600 include different things as accessory uses as they appear. And so it wouldn't 192 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:24,240 be a giant amendment or things that come into this, but it would be a simple 193 00:17:22,319 --> 00:17:29,679 change in front of the commissioners to allow certain things as an accessory 194 00:17:26,559 --> 00:17:33,360 use. By broadening our accessory use definition to allow these types of 195 00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:38,480 things, it just gives us a lot more flexibility. 196 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:42,880 So I guess my question when you say um commissioners to allow is this something 197 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:46,400 that would come before us >> as a use 198 00:17:45,039 --> 00:17:49,440 from a recommendation of the zoning board? 199 00:17:47,120 --> 00:17:55,039 » Correct. So right now this is the recommendation is that 200 00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:59,600 we allow these specific things modular container homes. The reason why we do 201 00:17:56,720 --> 00:18:04,720 this is that they meet HUD standings. They meet all our federal regulations. 202 00:18:02,559 --> 00:18:08,880 And if we're talking about a property value 203 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:17,000 standard here, there are several container homes, tiny homes, that's 204 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:17,000 overall property value is greater than 205 00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:25,440 a fairly decent portion of homes that are already existing that are stick 206 00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:33,440 build homes. Right now, the average property value for a 12,200 square ft 207 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:42,600 stick built home when our housing inventory is approximately 70 years old 208 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:42,600 is going to be around $49,500. 209 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:52,880 When you have a container modular home that is going to be significantly have 210 00:18:49,120 --> 00:18:59,039 more value and actually by allowing these we're protecting more of the 211 00:18:55,200 --> 00:19:08,400 property value for those buildings than we are by disallowing it. And so also 212 00:19:03,679 --> 00:19:12,640 talking about our overall theme there's things that we have to consider public 213 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:17,840 health safety and welfare. Welfare in this manner also means affordability of 214 00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:21,919 homes. And by allowing this and having a greater ability to have a greater 215 00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:26,880 inventory would benefit the public welfare of Crawford County. And we 216 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:33,640 determined at that point in time that to use these as an accessory use would be 217 00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:33,640 beneficial for the county overall. 218 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:41,280 you know, we uh are these uh container homes, are they going to have to be on 219 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:46,160 two acres? >> If they're going to be on a residential 220 00:19:43,120 --> 00:19:51,919 property or at that point in time, they have to still meet the rule residential 221 00:19:48,799 --> 00:19:55,039 area qualifications and setbacks. They still have to have water hookups and 222 00:19:53,679 --> 00:20:00,480 everything that would be necessary. Right now, we're doing them as an 223 00:19:57,280 --> 00:20:04,480 accessory use, meaning that there's already going to be a residential 224 00:20:01,919 --> 00:20:10,480 property there. This is going to be an addition to it. 225 00:20:07,120 --> 00:20:15,679 So, so who's who's going to police this here? If someone puts a a small 226 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:19,440 container, well, they have to go before the zoning board 227 00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:24,160 » there. Again, you know, I know where they have some in another county. 228 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:29,039 They don't even have hooked up to the sewer system. 229 00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:32,960 » And unfortunately, here's the problem is that Crawford County currently doesn't 230 00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:38,320 have the resources to police it as it is. If there was a container home within 231 00:20:35,360 --> 00:20:45,760 the zone meets and bounds, we are a complaint driven county. We do not have 232 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:51,600 a certified inspector or a certified compliance officer that is going to come 233 00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:56,559 in and actually inspect this. How we will handle this and how we would be 234 00:20:54,240 --> 00:21:00,080 notified of this is through the zoning process and a building permit. They 235 00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:05,440 would have to come in for a building permit and that building at that point 236 00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:09,840 in time per that building permit would have to meet the regulations as set 237 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:14,159 forth here. Rules are for rules followers, not for 238 00:21:12,559 --> 00:21:17,360 rule breakers. There's always going to be rule breakers and there's always 239 00:21:15,679 --> 00:21:22,320 going to be compliance issues. If there is a time where we find a compliance 240 00:21:19,039 --> 00:21:27,520 issue, it goes before uh depending on what it is, if it's a nuisance issue or 241 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:32,080 if it's an actual uh use here, it goes before the commission to handle as 242 00:21:29,679 --> 00:21:39,280 according to the rules. So in other words, uh if a person like say we split 243 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:47,679 some of these uh properties up to 2 acres or 2 and 1/2 acres, person people 244 00:21:43,360 --> 00:21:53,600 build $200,000 house and then you go through the comm uh zoning people and 245 00:21:50,799 --> 00:21:57,679 they can come in there and put us one of storage containers. 246 00:21:54,720 --> 00:22:03,919 » Yep, they could with an additional building. I I I would 247 00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:09,600 see it the same way as if somebody built a 248 00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:14,720 million-doll home right out here on 47 highway, still in the zoned area, but 249 00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:19,520 they're professional. They may have an office here in town or 250 00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:24,159 an office in Pittsburgh, but me as a personal professional, I have an office 251 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:28,240 at home. And I [clears throat] sure wish at times that my office was not in my 252 00:22:26,559 --> 00:22:32,159 home as opposed [laughter] to outside of my home because it's more professional, 253 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:38,400 but it's secluded. It has different things. I propose building an office on 254 00:22:36,159 --> 00:22:44,640 our farmland in Panee County several times. But if I were to build an office 255 00:22:41,919 --> 00:22:49,039 that was just a shed, it'd be fine. But the second that I wanted to put a 256 00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:52,320 bathroom in there and some water, it would have to fall into these 257 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:57,600 compliance. And if it wasn't listed as an accessory use already, then I could 258 00:22:55,200 --> 00:23:03,039 not do that. It's more about inclusion for what we are offering 259 00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:07,600 now with the changing landscape of things versus 260 00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:11,200 okay, we're going to disallow it as a whole. 261 00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:16,159 What we would rather have is compliance through notice. Come and get your 262 00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:20,880 building permit. Let us know it's here. That way it's properly taxed. That way 263 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:26,240 it's properly assessed and appraised and that way we also are informed about 264 00:23:24,159 --> 00:23:32,080 what's going on in the county. >> Well, drive [clears throat] uh there's 265 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:36,720 one spot that's in a zoned area. They got probably five or six of these 266 00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:40,720 storage buildings that people use for storage. 267 00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:46,159 People's living in them and we couldn't do nothing about it 268 00:23:43,919 --> 00:23:49,760 » in his own area. But and at this point in time, if there wasn't a complaint 269 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:53,200 issued, I mean, >> there was a complaint issued. 270 00:23:51,360 --> 00:23:56,720 » So, but you know where we go with that? 271 00:23:54,799 --> 00:24:00,880 Zero. >> Sometimes I will tell you that the law 272 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:06,480 is not always going to be on your side for every compliance issue. It's the 273 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:09,120 what we do is we make rules for those who are going to follow the rules. 274 00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:13,360 There's always going to be issues with people. 275 00:24:11,279 --> 00:24:18,559 like this particular one. If we had had it back then, why can't we make it that 276 00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:24,080 they have to come in front of the zoning board in a zoned area to to do all this 277 00:24:22,559 --> 00:24:29,840 here? We couldn't touch it. So, is that in 278 00:24:27,279 --> 00:24:33,919 this book here showing that we can now if someone tried to pull this? 279 00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:39,200 » Yeah. Well, you would have certain abilities to go forth, send cease and 280 00:24:37,360 --> 00:24:43,679 desist letters. Do you have an ability to 281 00:24:41,919 --> 00:24:46,559 » uh I don't know how the process went the last time. I I will tell you 282 00:24:45,039 --> 00:24:51,679 » how the process go this time. >> Well, the process this time would be you 283 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:55,360 have a complaint that's issued by a neighbor to the pl to the zoning 284 00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:58,960 administrator. The zoning administrator would then send them a cease and desist 285 00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:04,720 letter letter. Go out and inspect the pro or look at the property to make sure 286 00:25:01,120 --> 00:25:07,679 that the complaint is is valid. At that point in time, if it is a valid 287 00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:14,159 complaint, you have two different options. Option A is you turn it to your 288 00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:19,440 county counselor to seek uh further compliance issues. But the proper way is 289 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:25,440 that May informs them this is the violation. This is your compliance. 290 00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:27,760 The goal is to get them into compliance, right? 291 00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:31,760 » And so if we say this is what you need to do to get compliance, if they don't 292 00:25:29,679 --> 00:25:38,799 comply with that, then you have two options. Option A, you go through the 293 00:25:35,360 --> 00:25:44,799 legal action. You remove the building as an entirety of issue. Whether or not 294 00:25:42,159 --> 00:25:49,200 your judge down upstairs is going to enforce that on equitable issues is 295 00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:55,360 entirely up to the facts surrounding the case itself or you do it through a tax 296 00:25:53,279 --> 00:25:59,279 abatement issue. But those are the types of things that 297 00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:03,760 you're going to have to deal with. That's just things that happen with 298 00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:07,919 planning and zoning al together. >> Okay. Okay. 299 00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:10,720 » Okay. Sorry if you want to jump in for a minute. I have a couple questions on 300 00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:14,080 this. >> What we talked about in our planning 301 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:18,480 zoning meetings as far as these sheds are concerned. You told us we cannot 302 00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:20,000 limit how many sheds people put on their property. 303 00:26:19,039 --> 00:26:24,640 » A shed is a shed. >> A shed is a shed. So if you turn one 304 00:26:21,919 --> 00:26:28,240 shed into a residence, that's what you did. You made it a residence. Correct. 305 00:26:26,799 --> 00:26:32,559 And it has to have. >> So when we go back to the accessory part 306 00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:36,880 of this, when you said it would have to go to planning and zoning, it 307 00:26:35,039 --> 00:26:40,799 necessarily does not if they just have to get a building permit. Correct. 308 00:26:38,559 --> 00:26:43,760 » Correct. But the building permit has to be in compliance. If it's not in 309 00:26:42,559 --> 00:26:47,200 compliance, then it would be a conditional in compliance to what 310 00:26:45,679 --> 00:26:51,520 standards. I guess if we have no building codes or inspectors, what am I 311 00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:57,039 enforcing? >> What you're enforcing is the actual 312 00:26:53,360 --> 00:27:01,039 knowledge that it is there. number one. And if it's going to be an accessory use 313 00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:06,159 where there's going to be a residence that it's hooked up to sewer and water. 314 00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:11,200 » So that so they so we're being clear that as far as if I get a phone call 315 00:27:08,799 --> 00:27:14,400 from somebody that has this home and they want to put on a mother-in-law 316 00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:17,919 suite as long as it's hooked up a sewer and water and they get a building 317 00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:21,840 permit, they're okay. >> That's it does not go to planning and 318 00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:23,360 zoning. It does not go any further than me. 319 00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:26,400 » That's it. >> Okay. I just want that clear for 320 00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:31,279 everybody in the room. >> Okay. So, let's get this straight right 321 00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:34,559 now. I don't like it. So, what's the procedure we do? Mark it down and send 322 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:40,480 it back to the zoning. >> That's it. 323 00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:43,919 » Okay. So, is there a number of these tiny little sheds that we can that they 324 00:27:43,360 --> 00:27:48,159 can put? >> We were told we were not if the way or 325 00:27:46,559 --> 00:27:52,240 else we would have, but we were told we cannot cover how many sheds. I can't 326 00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:57,279 call you up and tell you how many sheds you're allowed. So, I got six kids, I 327 00:27:54,720 --> 00:28:00,320 could put six and put one in each house. >> And from what this is understanding, if 328 00:27:58,799 --> 00:28:04,480 it's hooked up sewer and water and they get a building permit, if I followed all 329 00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:08,240 this correct, these are calls I take all the time. 330 00:28:05,919 --> 00:28:12,480 » Well, what whatever the number it is, I mean, I didn't get through all the book, 331 00:28:09,919 --> 00:28:17,279 but mark that down that I'm opposed to that. If we have to go, whatever the 332 00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:21,840 seizures going to be, I want that going. That would be a question for council. 333 00:28:20,159 --> 00:28:25,600 You understand? Jim, you was with me on this problem that I had. 334 00:28:23,679 --> 00:28:29,360 » Oh, I remember that. Can we discuss this now and vote on what we want to do? 335 00:28:27,919 --> 00:28:36,679 » This is just the old definition. We haven't got to the article. 336 00:28:32,159 --> 00:28:36,679 » The definition that Josh is telling 337 00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:43,880 right now. 338 00:28:46,799 --> 00:28:52,880 Well, I appreciate the conversation every 339 00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:58,640 conversation. So, it's good to have it. >> I'd rather get it out on the table now. 340 00:28:56,080 --> 00:29:01,679 » You know, Jim, you got you got another few. Yes. 341 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:06,559 » Okay. Salvage. >> Yes. 342 00:29:02,159 --> 00:29:12,799 » Okay. Uh, you know, I have a lot of problems and with this, 343 00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:18,880 especially with the vehicles and the ones that one guy, uh, he he's got a 344 00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:22,960 bunch of these travel, not travel trailer, little storage trailers. They 345 00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:25,440 all all around. He's got half a dozen in his yard. He's got a S in his yard. 346 00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:32,480 » Uhhuh. >> And we've been telling, hey, put that 347 00:29:28,559 --> 00:29:39,279 behind. We're not being shown. on the county in his own area. So how do we 348 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:43,919 contend to that? I mean right now we got one that brings vehicles in, strips 349 00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:47,840 them, 2 days later he pulls them out, takes them someplace else 350 00:29:46,799 --> 00:29:52,000 down. >> I would hope that he would be smart 351 00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:58,159 enough to go to KDH and get a license to be 352 00:29:54,880 --> 00:30:03,120 » don't have so. So salvage yardage is one of those specific things that's an 353 00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:06,320 allowed use in a specific area. If it's not an allowed use, then it's a 354 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:10,559 conditional use permit and it goes through the conditional use process. 355 00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:16,559 That's before the planning and zoning commission itself. 356 00:30:13,679 --> 00:30:20,640 » Okay. Well, the ones I've been dealing with, they have five or six. Well, 357 00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:27,120 » and they would qualify under this definition after that third inoperable 358 00:30:23,679 --> 00:30:32,880 vehicle. So, you know, I lived in the country for 359 00:30:29,279 --> 00:30:39,679 quite a while my life and I I work on cars myself. I have project 360 00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:44,320 cars. They're going to be inoperable if I currently I have a 55 Ford frame 361 00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:48,480 that's sitting out there. That's an inoperable vehicle. And I guarantee that 362 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:52,880 one day if I decide to put two more in there, uh, where my shop is located, 363 00:30:51,279 --> 00:30:56,640 they will definitely come down on me hard. You know, I don't mind farms. 364 00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:59,440 Everybody's got a hedge. >> Yeah. 365 00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:06,399 » You know, stuff they rub parts off and all that. But these people, they deliver 366 00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:09,520 it. I mean, they they love junk. And I'm talking about they stack it next to 367 00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:15,440 their house. >> So, but we've been fighting a couple of 368 00:31:13,279 --> 00:31:18,640 them. They'll clean it up a little bit. Then 369 00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:21,600 you got to go back. We have no one that completes this. How long do we get it 370 00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:26,640 from? >> And 371 00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:31,520 to be honest with you, Commissioner, the best answer that I can give you is 372 00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:37,039 actually a fiscal answer is that if you want greater compliance, then your 373 00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:42,760 answer is a certified building inspector and compliance officer. 374 00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:42,760 » Okay. 375 00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:54,320 agricultural use. >> Thank you. 376 00:31:52,159 --> 00:31:57,279 » And this may just be uh something that you were fixing, Josh. There was a 377 00:31:56,159 --> 00:32:00,080 couple blank >> Yeah. 378 00:31:57,679 --> 00:32:03,919 » lines there. And I just want everybody I just want to point it out cuz we're 379 00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:08,480 we're 3 acres for an act lot. So probably not less than 3 acres, 380 00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:12,480 which is which is different. I think that I think that's fine. But then I 381 00:32:11,039 --> 00:32:14,880 didn't know. Were there some other definitions that 382 00:32:13,679 --> 00:32:19,039 » there's the egg >> look like there's like BC and H were 383 00:32:18,559 --> 00:32:22,559 left out. >> We had some other things that we 384 00:32:20,799 --> 00:32:27,279 addressed specifically in the article that we decided not to put into the 385 00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:32,320 actual definition itself. >> Um and those were kind of there. There 386 00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:40,240 were certain things like green houses or heads rows corn mazes things like that. 387 00:32:35,039 --> 00:32:45,440 » Okay. Uh, couple more. Base 17. Uh, Junk, I was wondering if unless it's 388 00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:49,480 coming somewhere else that we've had an issue here if 389 00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:55,360 I thought maybe we should add tires to that. 390 00:32:53,840 --> 00:33:00,960 » Okay, good idea. >> I think that tires might have its own, 391 00:32:58,399 --> 00:33:02,960 but I think it ought to be in there anyway 392 00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:07,519 » with the junk itself. >> We're going to that. Yes, of course. 393 00:33:05,519 --> 00:33:10,720 Okay, tires isn't in here. So, let's add it 394 00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:14,200 here to junk. >> Appreciate that. 395 00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:17,640 » Tires. 396 00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:32,480 I think that was it for definitions. 397 00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:38,240 Okay. Now, uh Josh is this is two of the people that are having trouble 398 00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:43,360 They got all this stuff. So what would be the procedure 399 00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:47,120 at making them come into compliance? >> Well, junk itself would go under your 400 00:33:45,519 --> 00:33:52,159 nuisance code and it would go through your nuisance court. 401 00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:56,399 » Okay. Right. And we'll see later that's going to be 402 00:33:53,360 --> 00:34:00,559 an option even for enforcement, but we're not there yet. So 403 00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:04,320 » we have a nuisance code that is full meetats and bounds of the county itself 404 00:34:02,799 --> 00:34:09,599 at this point. Um, and that nuisance code is actually 405 00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:13,440 very encompassing and very broad to allow us to handle a lot of these issues 406 00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:21,320 that might come up under planning and zoning to use utilize that system that 407 00:34:17,359 --> 00:34:21,320 we've already been approved for. 408 00:34:29,359 --> 00:34:36,240 Any other comments or questions about definitions? 409 00:34:33,599 --> 00:34:39,240 everything. Good. 410 00:34:41,599 --> 00:34:49,000 » Okay, this time um we'll move on to article three 411 00:34:50,159 --> 00:34:53,320 get there. 412 00:34:55,599 --> 00:35:04,320 Article 3 is the explanation of our uh districts themselves. It starts on page 413 00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:11,839 29. Thank you. Um, so our old book here 414 00:35:09,359 --> 00:35:16,880 has quite a few different types of districts. 415 00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:24,880 Um, and I've said lots of times that it'd be great for Overland Park or a 416 00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:30,079 city, not a rural county. Uh the problem with having too many 417 00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:37,920 districts is you have too many inconsistencies and contradictory terms 418 00:35:32,720 --> 00:35:43,040 that are coming into a place where 98% of the unzoneed area is going to be 419 00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:49,280 agriculture. And within the zone area, these three 420 00:35:45,839 --> 00:35:52,400 definitions would qualify 90 421 00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:59,359 99% with outside of unincorporated 422 00:35:55,599 --> 00:36:03,760 uh zoning areas such as like Farlington, our towns, Brazleton, things like that 423 00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:09,599 which we would address in different manners. And so the specifics were to 424 00:36:07,599 --> 00:36:14,800 drop it down to three specific districts. an agricultural district, a 425 00:36:13,119 --> 00:36:20,240 rural residential district, and a general commercial district. Zoning 426 00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:24,320 maps, a zoning map has not been produced until we come once again to that 427 00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:28,079 jurisdictional matter about where the zoning is. 428 00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:33,280 The other part about putting a zoning map together would also be an approval 429 00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:39,200 part of the comprehensive plan. Uh specifically talking about 430 00:36:36,240 --> 00:36:43,720 approached and considered overlays that we would also add to a zoning map. 431 00:36:44,240 --> 00:36:53,920 Annexation uh this is just a basic uh annexation 432 00:36:49,599 --> 00:36:58,720 term rules for uncertainties. Um 433 00:36:55,520 --> 00:37:05,359 these are basic rules that we put down uh to go and basically how to read 434 00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:10,800 things variances and exceptions. Um there's a process for these and 435 00:37:07,119 --> 00:37:15,200 violations as well. Along with this is a flood plane management conditional use p 436 00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:20,960 standards permit application requirements. 437 00:37:17,119 --> 00:37:27,040 Um along with this we would add an index section that include forms and different 438 00:37:23,839 --> 00:37:31,599 things to use uh for our conditional use permits. That way we had a consistent 439 00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:36,960 onesize form that was compliant with the article itself. 440 00:37:34,720 --> 00:37:40,960 Questions and comments concerns about article 3. 441 00:37:39,119 --> 00:37:46,560 » Um the question I had >> Okay. um section 35 442 00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:50,400 item for a >> uh 443 00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:54,640 » when you are the the phrase was or land to be used 444 00:37:52,720 --> 00:38:00,720 except for the purpose permitted in the district. So I guess my clarification 445 00:37:57,119 --> 00:38:03,440 would be if we went with the general commercial 446 00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:09,760 zone >> Mhm. Is it only is general commercial 447 00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:12,640 only allowed in that zone >> without a variance? Yes. 448 00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:16,320 » Okay. >> Or a reszoning. 449 00:38:14,240 --> 00:38:20,320 » I mean the residential be the same thing. If I have residential area then 450 00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:24,640 it's considered residential but that's purposeless. 451 00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:28,960 » Yeah. So there's certain permitted uses. You have a nonconformity 452 00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:33,520 procedure, a variance procedure, conditional use. Those types of 453 00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:40,640 procedures are put in there. But this is all part of the orderly planning itself. 454 00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:45,119 Uh in school, we always use the the mantra, you don't want to put a strip 455 00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:49,760 club next to a school, right? And and that's the the governance here is that 456 00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:56,160 we want to make sure that our districts are separated. I'm not going to put a 457 00:38:52,720 --> 00:39:03,280 subdivision or a rural residential property intentionally within the 458 00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:08,400 minimum setback of a hog farm or something along that lines because 459 00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:14,880 you're going to see automatic issues that come out of that. Uh we have a you 460 00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:20,880 know Supreme Court cases that have been just devoted to just that those 461 00:39:17,839 --> 00:39:26,560 nuisances issues. And so part of the orderly planning and zoning is to allow 462 00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:30,960 what those permitted uses is are. And then if there's another issue, we have a 463 00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:35,520 conditional use permit variances and other mechanisms to look at individual 464 00:39:33,599 --> 00:39:40,880 cases as they come. >> Okay. 465 00:39:37,119 --> 00:39:49,119 » Okay. Say we annexation. You're talking about bordering a corporate city uh like 466 00:39:45,359 --> 00:39:52,079 Pittsburgh to the county. Oh, is this is this is this the annexation you're 467 00:39:50,960 --> 00:40:00,240 talking about? >> So, what would happen is this 468 00:39:55,599 --> 00:40:04,640 if a piece of land was annexed that is So, we [clears throat] currently own a 469 00:40:01,599 --> 00:40:14,079 piece of land. Uh it is within our zoned area. It is zoned as rural residential. 470 00:40:09,119 --> 00:40:19,680 If it were to be annexed into a city without it being reszoned for a 471 00:40:16,720 --> 00:40:25,599 different purpose, that zoning would still apply. What we're doing is is even 472 00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:31,520 if something is annexed into a city, we're trying to protect the citizens of 473 00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:36,400 Crawford County that were part of this zoning. And so whether or not they went 474 00:40:34,240 --> 00:40:40,400 into a city, this is the zoning that they're expected to have. These are the 475 00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:46,880 setbacks that they built on. These are the setbacks. These are the rules that 476 00:40:42,720 --> 00:40:51,839 they followed to have this regard >> through us to make sure that they don't 477 00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:55,040 come in annex something and then automatically try to say you're 478 00:40:53,200 --> 00:41:01,000 non-compliant. >> So we would govern 479 00:40:57,760 --> 00:41:01,000 an annexation 480 00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:07,680 owned it. We just still tell them what they could put there. 481 00:41:05,119 --> 00:41:12,079 » No, that's not what this means. What it means is when a city annexes a piece of 482 00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:16,800 property, >> okay, 483 00:41:13,119 --> 00:41:21,359 » that that zoning is there, that rules that that house was zoned under when 484 00:41:19,119 --> 00:41:26,720 they were annexed is what the city has to follow, not us specifically saying, 485 00:41:24,720 --> 00:41:31,200 okay, you can't do anything else with this. And what it's saying is that 486 00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:35,359 you're going to have to get this property owner's approval or this go 487 00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:39,440 through a zoning process if you're going to change anything that we've done here. 488 00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:42,680 It's to protect the citizen that is being annexed. 489 00:41:43,359 --> 00:41:51,200 » I don't uh we're not on the same page, but I'll try to explain myself. Okay. We 490 00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:55,359 had a the casino come in. >> Uh-huh. 491 00:41:52,720 --> 00:41:58,480 » Okay. Uh they didn't want to do a spot zoning. 492 00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:04,480 » Mhm. >> Okay. We give permission. So you're 493 00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:09,359 saying if we have this these rules in place, we would govern the city of 494 00:42:07,839 --> 00:42:15,280 Pittsburgh. Got it. >> No, we don't govern it. All we're saying 495 00:42:12,240 --> 00:42:20,079 is that once they annexed it, what they annexed it as is what zoning that we 496 00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:22,960 gave it. That's what we're trying to say here is that 497 00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:30,160 » that's what I'm trying to say. If it's in a rural area, I mean an agriculture 498 00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:34,319 area, Pittsburgh wants to annex it, then then then the people that live around 499 00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:39,520 there, they can say, "No, we don't want it." 500 00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:41,920 But still yet, it gets annexed into the city of Pittsburgh. I'm just using this 501 00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:46,240 for example. >> So, what I'm trying to tell you here is 502 00:42:43,839 --> 00:42:50,240 that we have no continual governance. That's what this is saying. What it's 503 00:42:48,240 --> 00:42:57,599 saying is that if you annex something in, you can't say that that citizen is 504 00:42:53,280 --> 00:43:01,200 non-compliant based upon your So if >> the city can't come in and annex a 505 00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:04,160 property that joins a city. >> Uhhuh. 506 00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:07,440 » With really kind of sole purpose that I want to take this, I want to change you 507 00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:12,640 and I want to make you conform to our rules because we don't like whatever's 508 00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:18,640 going on there. That's that's what the this is saying is that if a city is 509 00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:24,000 trying to annex something, we don't have continual authority, but that citizen is 510 00:43:21,119 --> 00:43:27,440 expected to have these zoning rules when they're annexed. And if there's 511 00:43:25,839 --> 00:43:32,079 something that happens further down the road, we don't have a dog in that fight, 512 00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:35,440 but we protected the citizens before they were annexed and while they were 513 00:43:33,839 --> 00:43:41,040 annexed. Carla said they annex 20 acres of your 514 00:43:38,240 --> 00:43:46,560 property and you've got cattle. The city annexes it and the city rules are you 515 00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:52,319 can only have one animal on a on a lot of property. But based on this 516 00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:56,960 regulation that that property is still protected as a county a use zoning even 517 00:43:55,440 --> 00:44:01,760 though it got moved into the city limits. They still have to keep it as 518 00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:06,960 county as they are. >> That's not for all time. We might go 519 00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:11,680 through a process to reszone that, but but that be pretty difficult. 520 00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:16,400 » That all it's saying is it keeps the same zoning. So if the casino is running 521 00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:22,800 out in the county as a casino and they have zoning as a commercial casino, the 522 00:44:19,839 --> 00:44:26,720 if the city annex is that zoning stays as a commercial casino and they can't 523 00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:32,079 tell them that it has to be residential or multifamily or or whatever. It just 524 00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:37,280 keeps the same It keeps the same zoning when it's brought into a city. Now, 525 00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:42,480 the time when this probably comes into play more is when there's annexations 526 00:44:39,599 --> 00:44:45,440 that are more confrontational. Most of the ones we've had lately are 527 00:44:44,720 --> 00:44:49,839 » voluntary >> voluntary zoning or voluntary annexation 528 00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:54,560 » where someone's requesting to be annexed. It's it's really when the city 529 00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:59,359 takes over a neighborhood maybe that that where some of the some of the 530 00:44:56,800 --> 00:45:04,079 people maybe wanted it but some didn't. But they can't change the the folks that 531 00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:06,800 did still get to maintain. A lot of times I think it's probably for egg use 532 00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:10,640 where they're still allowed to have their animals and they're still allowed 533 00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:13,520 to do possibly some things that wouldn't be allowed in the city. 534 00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:19,680 » So, but they're protected. >> The best example is an egg use. Um, the 535 00:45:17,119 --> 00:45:27,119 city I represent did an adjacent lot annexation because we needed to for 536 00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:33,440 water improvements and we had to have um an available area for wetland cells. 537 00:45:31,119 --> 00:45:38,720 Part of our agreement in that is to allow them because even that city does 538 00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:45,359 not allow boine within the city limits unless they are 539 00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:53,200 FFA or or some type of feeder calf or something along those lines. This was on 540 00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:58,319 a ranch on a uh thousand acre ranch. And so we annexed it, but understanding 541 00:45:56,400 --> 00:46:01,839 that there was going to be cows on that property and we didn't care because we 542 00:46:00,079 --> 00:46:08,000 needed to have that piece of property so we could buy it and then put a wetland 543 00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:14,240 cell on it. But that's the goal is that we couldn't annex it and say, "Oh, guess 544 00:46:11,040 --> 00:46:18,480 what? You don't have any cows anymore. put a fence here and keep your cows on 545 00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:22,960 that side of the fence. That's not what this is about. 546 00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:28,319 So, that's what we're talking about here is that we can't annex something and 547 00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:32,319 then say, "Guess what? You're now in the city. You have to follow these rules." 548 00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:37,200 No. These are the rules that I had. I have proper zoning here. You annexed me 549 00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:41,920 knowing these rules. It's the notice issue. 550 00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:48,880 I'll give you one more example which most of the cities is corporate they 551 00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:53,440 have they got development outside their city limits 552 00:46:50,720 --> 00:46:58,640 and we'll say they want to the city wants to annex it to get more revenue 553 00:46:56,079 --> 00:47:06,400 you know increase their population or what have you and it's already zoo uh 554 00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:13,200 zoomed probably would be residential just made it possible probably is. 555 00:47:08,720 --> 00:47:18,480 » Yeah. So, how would that change with these new rigs as far as we'll say 556 00:47:16,319 --> 00:47:22,800 Gard telling the people outside the city limits that you're going to do this, 557 00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:25,839 this, and this because now you're under Gerard's rules. 558 00:47:24,319 --> 00:47:29,680 » They can't. >> They can't. And that stays forever. 559 00:47:28,079 --> 00:47:35,119 » That stays until they go through a reszoning process. If you forcefully try 560 00:47:32,720 --> 00:47:40,960 to reszone somebody, it is a judicial mechanism that you either do it 561 00:47:37,599 --> 00:47:45,680 voluntary, but if you do it compulsory, then you require notice, you have public 562 00:47:44,079 --> 00:47:50,880 hearings and things that go along with it through your planning and zoning, and 563 00:47:47,520 --> 00:47:55,920 then you have an ability to appeal it to the district court on top of it. What we 564 00:47:53,599 --> 00:47:59,680 are telling this is that it is not an automatic thing is that you're going to 565 00:47:57,839 --> 00:48:04,640 have to go through hell and high water to change this. 566 00:48:01,839 --> 00:48:08,319 » Now if these people did not want to be annexed to draw we for example 567 00:48:07,760 --> 00:48:13,440 » Uhhuh. >> can they draw cannot take them? Well, 568 00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:20,160 that's an annexation rule that I can't answer on this one because what we're I 569 00:48:17,359 --> 00:48:24,000 I think the better example is this is we put in a subdivision under a county 570 00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:27,200 subdivision rule. >> Okay. 571 00:48:24,640 --> 00:48:32,720 » If that subdivision gets zoned or annexed into a city, they can't change 572 00:48:30,079 --> 00:48:37,280 our subdivision rules automatically to comply with whatever 573 00:48:34,720 --> 00:48:40,480 they want it to be. Our subdivision rules still are going to stand until 574 00:48:39,040 --> 00:48:46,880 they have to go through the full procedure. Give the people notice. Go 575 00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:52,160 through divided application. Go through those magic five things. Your five 576 00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:56,720 words, public health, safety, general welfare, those types of things, public 577 00:48:54,880 --> 00:49:02,160 policy, all those things have to be addressed before they can do anything to 578 00:48:59,359 --> 00:49:07,839 change one iota of that subdivision rule. 579 00:49:04,240 --> 00:49:13,440 So if the people that's trying to end it, they have to group together to fight 580 00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:17,520 like the city of Gerard in theory. 581 00:49:16,079 --> 00:49:22,960 You're you're >> I know 582 00:49:19,599 --> 00:49:27,359 at the doors now I I understand that. What this is just saying is what they're 583 00:49:24,559 --> 00:49:30,400 zoned at now is what they stay zoned at if they 584 00:49:28,559 --> 00:49:32,319 » Yeah. It's a good thing. It's not a bad thing. 585 00:49:30,720 --> 00:49:38,079 » It's not a bad thing. This is uh something to protect our citizens. 586 00:49:35,440 --> 00:49:44,000 » Okay. Sorry for the interruptions. >> You're fine. 587 00:49:39,839 --> 00:49:48,559 Any other questions, comments, concerns? >> No, I think I'm doing that one. 588 00:49:45,440 --> 00:49:52,359 » All right. Moving on to article 4 starting on page 33. 589 00:49:52,880 --> 00:50:01,440 This is the agricultural district. Now, I want to point this out uh at the very 590 00:49:58,720 --> 00:50:06,319 beginning of this title. is, and I'm going to read this for the 591 00:50:04,319 --> 00:50:11,839 record, nothing in these zoning regulations shall conflict with 592 00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:19,599 agricultural exemptions specifically stated in KSA 192921 593 00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:26,319 and 192908. Kansas is a right to farm state. 594 00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:30,920 We are not here to interfere with any agricultural 595 00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:30,920 operation. 596 00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:39,920 And I'll repeat that. We are not here to interfere with any 597 00:50:37,119 --> 00:50:46,720 legitimate agricultural operation. 598 00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:52,160 What this says is that to be an egg, this is what we expect you 599 00:50:49,839 --> 00:50:56,400 to be doing. Crop production, livestock, farmsteads, barn silos, roadside stands, 600 00:50:54,480 --> 00:51:02,559 home occupations, all these things we expect in here. We have conditional 601 00:50:59,119 --> 00:51:08,480 uses. All these conditional uses are agricultural purposes that are 602 00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:13,119 agriculture related but need additional safety, health and welfare things to 603 00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:17,920 work properly. And that is why we ask them to be conditional uses, 604 00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:22,480 things that have like commercial feed lots, farm equipment repair. All of 605 00:51:20,640 --> 00:51:25,920 these different places have additional zoning regulations because they have 606 00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:29,920 additional needs and safety requirements. If you're going to be 607 00:51:27,440 --> 00:51:33,440 dealing with a bunch of diesel fuel, we want to make sure that you have a proper 608 00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:37,119 fire procedure, if you're going to be dealing 609 00:51:35,599 --> 00:51:42,000 with a commercial feed lot, you're going to be dealing with KDHE anyway. We just 610 00:51:40,319 --> 00:51:47,599 need to make sure that you've got the proper setbacks, you've got water silos, 611 00:51:45,119 --> 00:51:53,040 you've got everything that you need because not only that is your 612 00:51:50,640 --> 00:51:59,920 significant feed lot operation is going to require water. 613 00:51:56,880 --> 00:52:03,839 And so your conditional use permit might talk about geography and topography and 614 00:52:02,079 --> 00:52:08,640 it might talk about whether or not water usage is accessible to that type of 615 00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:13,000 place. So those are the reasons why we ask for conditional use purposes. 616 00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:21,440 Now I I'm sure that there will be a question 617 00:52:18,240 --> 00:52:26,480 about number five under conditional use permits specifically 618 00:52:24,160 --> 00:52:32,880 the utility scale renewable energy projects when installed. 619 00:52:30,240 --> 00:52:36,880 This is a conditional use permit. We do it as a conditional use permit is not 620 00:52:34,720 --> 00:52:43,040 only do we have additional regulations within the the 621 00:52:39,440 --> 00:52:48,880 code itself to specifically deal with any additions onto unzoneed areas if it 622 00:52:45,839 --> 00:52:53,040 were to happen, but to also maintain and to give us some authority for the 623 00:52:51,200 --> 00:52:58,559 current projects that are already within the county. 624 00:52:55,599 --> 00:53:05,920 Any type of production of energy projects 625 00:53:02,240 --> 00:53:13,839 is broad enough to allow us to also have an ability to have a conditional use 626 00:53:09,280 --> 00:53:18,319 repermit process where there's a review where there's procedures and things that 627 00:53:15,920 --> 00:53:24,079 need to go through whether even if it's not wind and solar, if it's something 628 00:53:20,559 --> 00:53:28,960 new that we don't know exists, if it's something like somebody wants to do uh 629 00:53:26,960 --> 00:53:33,720 the new one I heard the other day was a modular nuclear reactor. 630 00:53:34,640 --> 00:53:44,400 This would give us the process still to say we're going to review this and judge 631 00:53:41,359 --> 00:53:48,640 it upon that public safety, health, and general welfare to determine if that is 632 00:53:47,119 --> 00:53:53,839 the proper thing that we want in Crawford County. And we have a process 633 00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:58,720 under our conditional use permits to judge that. 634 00:53:56,559 --> 00:54:06,319 By having a conditional use permit, it gives us the authority to not just have 635 00:54:02,400 --> 00:54:12,000 a basic standard of bare minimums, but also gives us the authority on an 636 00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:16,640 individual casebycase basis to determine what is more appropriate for that 637 00:54:14,559 --> 00:54:21,599 particular project, that particular piece of land. 638 00:54:19,520 --> 00:54:26,079 And that is why it is put in this specific section and where it is put 639 00:54:24,240 --> 00:54:31,440 today. Going further on, we have setbacks. Uh 640 00:54:29,040 --> 00:54:36,400 these are general agricultural and most setbacks from loads. The only thing that 641 00:54:33,920 --> 00:54:40,079 I have here that might be contentious is height limits. 642 00:54:38,319 --> 00:54:44,800 Um there are some silos that go higher than 643 00:54:42,079 --> 00:54:50,079 35 ft. Um there's some grain bins that might go that high. Um that would be a 644 00:54:48,079 --> 00:54:52,960 conditional use permit and we would go through that process 645 00:54:51,440 --> 00:54:56,000 » and that's just something that would be reviewed that yeah 646 00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:59,760 » you know if it's a fit it's >> it's a fit it's a fit. So the the height 647 00:54:57,920 --> 00:55:03,319 because that's one question I had the height is 648 00:55:03,760 --> 00:55:12,000 but it said exempt agricultural. >> Yeah. Except for so we're really going 649 00:55:09,760 --> 00:55:16,960 on there's what I'm really thinking about when we put this in there is we 650 00:55:14,400 --> 00:55:20,800 have a high limit because there's FAA requirements and things such as that. We 651 00:55:19,520 --> 00:55:24,559 want to know if something that's going to go above those requirements what they 652 00:55:22,880 --> 00:55:28,079 are and if it's just going to be something 653 00:55:26,079 --> 00:55:32,960 that's already going to be permitted, we want to know about it so we can just say 654 00:55:30,720 --> 00:55:38,160 okay and then make sure the FAA is going to be informed to put it on a a plane. 655 00:55:36,400 --> 00:55:41,839 » I had no because I was having a hard time reading. 656 00:55:38,720 --> 00:55:47,760 » That's right. Because there's an and >> Josh the second sentence where it says 657 00:55:44,640 --> 00:55:52,559 » except building say 35 ft except for exempt a structures and she'll have no 658 00:55:51,040 --> 00:55:58,000 height limit. >> Yeah. So a silo figure that out. Okay. 659 00:55:55,599 --> 00:56:02,240 » Yeah. So a silo a grain bin that's going to exceed that 35 ft. It's an 660 00:55:59,920 --> 00:56:05,040 agricultural. We expect it to be there. >> The hope is is that you're going to give 661 00:56:03,520 --> 00:56:06,400 us a building permit that we know that it's there. 662 00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:10,640 » Okay. >> Yeah. 663 00:56:07,359 --> 00:56:14,720 » Okay. Good. non-conforming uses uh existing non-aggriculture uses that 664 00:56:13,200 --> 00:56:19,119 predate the zoning ordinance may continue but expansion or change of 665 00:56:16,960 --> 00:56:22,480 requires zoning video and approval. So anything that you've got out there now 666 00:56:20,720 --> 00:56:28,000 is going to stay out there. We're not changing a dang thing. If you're going 667 00:56:25,680 --> 00:56:35,359 to add on to it, get a building permit. That's what we're asking. 668 00:56:31,040 --> 00:56:39,000 We go to the next page in number 10 on page 34. 669 00:56:40,079 --> 00:56:45,680 Uh-huh. Municipal waste. >> What we talking about waste there? 670 00:56:44,160 --> 00:56:51,119 » Yeah, you're talking about wetland cells. Um, 671 00:56:48,400 --> 00:56:55,839 you're going to have water. It could include 672 00:56:52,640 --> 00:57:00,640 water um filtration systems, things like that. 673 00:56:57,440 --> 00:57:08,559 I'm not talking about uh waste from no wanted to run a a CND or a 674 00:57:06,160 --> 00:57:11,440 operation that uh you know has got contaminants in it. 675 00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:14,640 » You're still going to have a conditional use permit if they're going to try to do 676 00:57:12,880 --> 00:57:17,640 that. You have the opportunity to review it. 677 00:57:17,839 --> 00:57:26,319 » Could they fight us on that? Yeah, >> I fight you if I want to leave my lawn 678 00:57:23,599 --> 00:57:30,040 no more than 6 in, but it it doesn't mean that I'm going to win. 679 00:57:30,640 --> 00:57:36,400 » They understand that we don't want no hazardous materials. 680 00:57:34,720 --> 00:57:40,240 » But then you're going to get into a fight about what a hazardous material 681 00:57:38,559 --> 00:57:43,920 is. You're there's there's a lot more 682 00:57:42,160 --> 00:57:48,000 nuances. The goal is if we put it under 683 00:57:45,920 --> 00:57:53,760 conditional use permit, once again, it could be individualized. We can review 684 00:57:50,000 --> 00:57:58,720 it plan by plan, side by side. Carl, anybody can buy anything. 685 00:57:55,520 --> 00:58:04,480 » Yeah. No, but what I'm saying is the county or the people can't fight big 686 00:58:02,319 --> 00:58:08,799 corporates. So, what do you do then? If you have it, 687 00:58:07,280 --> 00:58:13,119 if you have it. Yeah. I mean >> if you deny a conditional 688 00:58:10,240 --> 00:58:16,480 » in other words I I feel southeast Kansas is nothing but a double ground everybody 689 00:58:15,280 --> 00:58:22,160 don't want nothing that comes to Crawford County period and I don't think 690 00:58:19,520 --> 00:58:26,960 it's right cuz we don't have the the power or the money to fight stuff this 691 00:58:25,359 --> 00:58:32,000 is the same they would have to get a conditional use permit if they wanted to 692 00:58:29,599 --> 00:58:39,200 do that activity they have to get our approval so they don't they 693 00:58:36,640 --> 00:58:42,160 I I don't know what I really want I just don't want it where anyone can dump 694 00:58:41,200 --> 00:58:45,599 here. >> But not anyone can dump. It's only 695 00:58:44,400 --> 00:58:49,359 approved people. >> Approved people that they turn around 696 00:58:47,520 --> 00:58:54,480 and invite you and fight you and fight you. Well, you don't have to land. 697 00:58:51,599 --> 00:59:00,480 » If I put a a complete If I put a complete uh statement that 698 00:58:58,079 --> 00:59:05,760 says this shall not be allowed, what happens if Pittsburgh comes in and says 699 00:59:03,280 --> 00:59:11,040 KDH says we need to have a new wetland cell? But it 700 00:59:07,920 --> 00:59:14,720 » uh nope. We don't allow it. Period. >> Well, we we can't control what does in 701 00:59:14,079 --> 00:59:17,680 our area. >> We can't in our area. 702 00:59:16,079 --> 00:59:23,040 » Yes, but you said >> Well, but what I'm telling 703 00:59:19,599 --> 00:59:28,960 » what I'm saying is that >> what what I'm saying is that they may 704 00:59:25,520 --> 00:59:33,520 not want to annex, buy a land, or where they have it have a contiguous issue. 705 00:59:31,839 --> 00:59:39,200 What we're saying is that they have to come to you to have approval no matter 706 00:59:35,280 --> 00:59:44,000 what. But if I outlaw it out outright, there might be an unincorporated area 707 00:59:41,680 --> 00:59:48,559 that has municipal services that we need to do. But that would also include 708 00:59:45,520 --> 00:59:55,760 things like rural water if they needed to have a wetland cell for disposing. If 709 00:59:52,720 --> 01:00:00,559 Chikapi needed something specifically, they're within our pure view. But if we 710 00:59:58,079 --> 01:00:05,359 outlaw it outright, then they don't get the services. 711 01:00:02,880 --> 01:00:10,720 Period. Because there's no way for us to change a blatant outlaw without coming 712 01:00:08,480 --> 01:00:18,400 back here and rechanging this and going through the amendment process. That's 713 01:00:14,400 --> 01:00:22,559 hinders our citizens abilities to get the services that they need. 714 01:00:20,160 --> 01:00:28,079 » Well, for an example, I'll tell you one that I was involved in was the Sandy 715 01:00:25,280 --> 01:00:34,400 landfill. We took it all the way to the Kansas Supreme Court. 716 01:00:32,079 --> 01:00:38,240 They got it. So, we spent not hundreds of dollars, 717 01:00:36,720 --> 01:00:43,280 quite a bit of money. There was five of us involved here. [clears throat] 718 01:00:40,720 --> 01:00:47,680 But what I'm saying, you really don't you don't you own the land, but if 719 01:00:45,920 --> 01:00:50,559 corporate wants to come in here and do something, 720 01:00:49,359 --> 01:00:54,720 you know, they can do what they want to do if it's next as long as it's not your 721 01:00:52,480 --> 01:00:59,680 land. If it's next door to your land, then what do you do? I can't control 722 01:00:57,359 --> 01:01:03,040 everything, but I'm telling you that if we put in here, 723 01:01:01,040 --> 01:01:07,119 » what I'm telling you, this is what we put in there is a conditional use 724 01:01:04,720 --> 01:01:12,880 permit. So, we can accept or deny it. But if we outright deny it, then that 725 01:01:09,920 --> 01:01:18,000 also prohibits our citizens from getting services. And we can't do that either 726 01:01:14,960 --> 01:01:23,200 because that's contrary to what we're supposed to be doing, which is the 727 01:01:19,359 --> 01:01:28,720 public health, safety, and welfare. There might be a time where that big 728 01:01:25,200 --> 01:01:33,040 corporate comes in and determines that this needs to be there. And if it's 729 01:01:30,720 --> 01:01:37,119 under the public safety and health and welfare and they can prove that, there's 730 01:01:35,280 --> 01:01:43,280 not a dang thing I'm going to do to stop it because those rules, those governing 731 01:01:40,160 --> 01:01:49,200 principles are the foundation of your job as commissioners is to protect the 732 01:01:46,640 --> 01:01:54,240 public safety, health, and welfare. And if we don't like the way that something 733 01:01:50,960 --> 01:01:58,720 looks or smells or sounds, but it's for that purpose, we're going to have a darn 734 01:01:56,799 --> 01:02:04,680 hard fight no matter what rules I put down in a book. 735 01:02:01,680 --> 01:02:04,680 Okay. 736 01:02:10,400 --> 01:02:17,440 Aquarium mining. This is another big issue. Uh this is a specific section. 737 01:02:15,040 --> 01:02:23,520 When we talk about our process, this still is a conditional use permit. What 738 01:02:19,359 --> 01:02:28,559 this is is a minimum standard. Minimum standard. It's always going to be 739 01:02:25,760 --> 01:02:32,640 specific to the property, places, the people around it. This is on page 35 and 740 01:02:31,280 --> 01:02:38,480 36. >> How does this compare to what we have? 741 01:02:35,119 --> 01:02:44,480 Do you also know the old ranks on this? >> Um, it's a little bit uh more 742 01:02:42,079 --> 01:02:52,960 streamlined than our previous one. Our previous one had a lot of things that 743 01:02:48,240 --> 01:02:58,240 necessarily might happen. Um I actually So every time I come to a work session, 744 01:02:55,760 --> 01:03:03,359 I decide that I pick five different sections of the county that I'm going to 745 01:03:00,480 --> 01:03:08,480 go through and explore and figure out if there's actual needs or things or how 746 01:03:05,440 --> 01:03:14,079 that works. Three of your mine are your mining and quarry sites are actually on 747 01:03:10,720 --> 01:03:21,200 county roads that are paved and some are accessible through only gravel roads. 748 01:03:16,960 --> 01:03:26,640 Some of our regulations kind of uh don't incorporate anything about gravel roads 749 01:03:23,760 --> 01:03:31,440 and gravel usage. What this does is gives us a bare minimum but still puts 750 01:03:28,559 --> 01:03:37,280 us in that conditional use theory that we can go through and approve sight by 751 01:03:33,520 --> 01:03:42,480 sight, project by project. Just like anything, if this something 752 01:03:40,160 --> 01:03:44,880 comes down that we have to change this to address a certain activity that we 753 01:03:44,640 --> 01:03:47,920 can't >> there's an art there's an article for 754 01:03:46,720 --> 01:03:51,440 amendments in here. >> Perfect. 755 01:03:49,920 --> 01:03:53,920 » Any other comments, questions? >> Yeah, I've got a comment on 35. 756 01:03:53,440 --> 01:03:58,559 » Okay. >> Hall road maintenance. 757 01:03:55,440 --> 01:04:03,200 » Uhhuh. Uh here we go again. We designated a hall road or hall route. 758 01:04:01,920 --> 01:04:08,000 Mhm. we can't get it enforced. 759 01:04:05,599 --> 01:04:11,599 » So, what language do we need in there that we can enforce it? 760 01:04:09,119 --> 01:04:16,079 » That's a criminal code. I don't have a dog fight criminal code. 761 01:04:13,520 --> 01:04:20,400 But if you designate a a whole route that requires a common carrier or a 762 01:04:18,559 --> 01:04:25,680 tractor trailer to go down that road and a highway patrolman, county sheriff sees 763 01:04:23,119 --> 01:04:29,760 them, that is a traffic citation. That citation goes to criminal court and is 764 01:04:28,160 --> 01:04:35,599 handled right then and there. sheriff's department. But still yet, 765 01:04:32,880 --> 01:04:41,280 we get the complaints that are now running the hall road or the hall route, 766 01:04:39,280 --> 01:04:47,200 you know, that the sheriff or the highway patrol did. So, 767 01:04:44,880 --> 01:04:49,680 what we got riding there with don't mean squat. 768 01:04:48,000 --> 01:04:53,520 » This isn't it does not enforce. No, 769 01:04:51,760 --> 01:04:57,760 » but what I'm telling you here is this gives us the ability to designate it. 770 01:04:55,920 --> 01:05:02,640 This this isn't about enforcement. This is about designation based upon quarry 771 01:05:00,319 --> 01:05:07,839 and mining saying that if you're going to haul quarry rock from point A to 772 01:05:05,599 --> 01:05:13,359 point B, this is the how hall route that you have to use. We as county 773 01:05:10,799 --> 01:05:19,039 commissioners make rules. We are not the enforcement wing of the government. In 774 01:05:16,720 --> 01:05:23,599 this particular instance, this is the judicial branch. It would be to 775 01:05:20,960 --> 01:05:27,839 interpret the rule of the law. the county sheriff would come in under their 776 01:05:25,520 --> 01:05:32,400 oath and enforce the law as it is written. This gives us the ability under 777 01:05:30,720 --> 01:05:36,240 our planning and zoning rules to designate that route. When we give 778 01:05:34,160 --> 01:05:40,400 notice of that route and publish it as part of this, 779 01:05:38,160 --> 01:05:45,359 then they have the authority to stop that tractor trailer. 780 01:05:42,880 --> 01:05:50,559 This isn't this rule here isn't about operations, it's about designation. 781 01:05:49,200 --> 01:05:54,720 that gives us the authority to designate, not necessarily how to 782 01:05:52,640 --> 01:05:59,680 enforce because that's not in our purview. 783 01:05:57,119 --> 01:06:03,440 » I'm a planning and zoner. I >> I understand the county attorney. It 784 01:06:01,760 --> 01:06:09,359 » just seems like the only ones that I brought up that seems like the county 785 01:06:06,400 --> 01:06:14,319 could have more little bit. So just general because like I say the thing is 786 01:06:12,400 --> 01:06:19,359 Carl is we could have all the body in the world but if it's not getting 787 01:06:17,119 --> 01:06:24,319 enforced there you go then >> why you have it 788 01:06:20,559 --> 01:06:31,039 » well because we have it our sheriff's department would enforce it and that's 789 01:06:27,760 --> 01:06:34,039 where that problem lies if there is a problem. 790 01:06:34,079 --> 01:06:41,599 » Am I wrong? Oh, that's it. Is that we have the ability to designate, we make 791 01:06:39,440 --> 01:06:45,280 the rule, it's up to the sheriff to enforce it in that one because it's a 792 01:06:43,599 --> 01:06:49,920 public safety road and things such as that. Other enforcement issues, like I 793 01:06:47,920 --> 01:06:56,559 said, it's more of a fiscal issue. If you want more enforcement, certified 794 01:06:52,640 --> 01:07:00,079 inspector and and compliance officer. So, 795 01:06:57,039 --> 01:07:05,039 » there you go again. That's just more staff we have to put on. 796 01:07:02,319 --> 01:07:08,319 » Well, compliance requires staff. I mean, I don't see this as a bite. I 797 01:07:06,720 --> 01:07:12,000 see this as foreseeing the issues we want to have, trying to address the 798 01:07:09,920 --> 01:07:18,720 issue before it's an issue, and then having steps to make sure that we can 799 01:07:14,720 --> 01:07:22,559 keep our race safe and and try to and you're going to have issues. I mean, we 800 01:07:20,160 --> 01:07:27,280 all know that, but I >> I don't have a problem. 801 01:07:25,039 --> 01:07:32,400 » I have this common talk on a regular basis. I I love talking about truckers 802 01:07:30,640 --> 01:07:36,400 and over the road truckers versus regional route truckers versus local 803 01:07:34,720 --> 01:07:41,440 route truckers. So regional route trucker doesn't have to abide by the 11 804 01:07:38,480 --> 01:07:47,200 hour rule. They can drive for 20 hours straight if they felt like it because it 805 01:07:43,680 --> 01:07:50,319 only applies to over the road truckers. And so if they're an over the road 806 01:07:48,880 --> 01:07:59,760 trucker, they have to abide by that 11-hour rule. Regional truckers do not. 807 01:07:54,720 --> 01:08:06,160 And so how we interpret the rules is the important part. We designated the hall 808 01:08:02,880 --> 01:08:12,000 route. It's up to how we're going to enforce it through what policies we put 809 01:08:10,400 --> 01:08:17,279 in with the county sheriff on these roads 810 01:08:13,520 --> 01:08:23,279 with if we decide fiscally that it's we want more compliance. It's like 811 01:08:19,279 --> 01:08:27,040 everything else. If you feel like you have a part-time financial officer for 812 01:08:25,440 --> 01:08:30,400 the county, but you need some more economic development, you're going to 813 01:08:28,480 --> 01:08:34,880 have to hire somebody to do economic development. If you feel like the 814 01:08:32,400 --> 01:08:41,199 compliance in this is lacking, you have to as a fiscal manager 815 01:08:38,719 --> 01:08:49,319 find a way to do it. Either reassign somebody to have that job or hire 816 01:08:45,120 --> 01:08:49,319 somebody who knows what they're doing. 817 01:08:49,600 --> 01:08:56,400 Any other questions and comments on article four? 818 01:08:54,080 --> 01:09:01,199 Okay, moving on to article five. This is the 819 01:08:58,719 --> 01:09:05,679 rule residential district. So the permitted are obviously those 820 01:09:03,199 --> 01:09:08,799 that are residential in nature. Uh we talk about home occupations 821 01:09:07,279 --> 01:09:15,199 specifically. Uh agriculture uses confined 822 01:09:13,359 --> 01:09:20,000 animal feeding and we're talking about feed lots and things such as that. We 823 01:09:17,279 --> 01:09:23,679 have our conditional uses. Basically, most of these uses in here, 824 01:09:22,480 --> 01:09:27,359 most of the time you're not going to have a problem with, but we like to have 825 01:09:25,440 --> 01:09:31,600 notice that they're coming in. New churches, private public schools, bed 826 01:09:29,600 --> 01:09:35,759 and breakfastes, greenhouse, plant nurseries, things such 827 01:09:33,440 --> 01:09:38,799 as that. We want to make sure that they have the proper parking lot 828 01:09:37,199 --> 01:09:45,120 measurements, and everything else that goes into it. These are our general bulk 829 01:09:42,319 --> 01:09:50,000 regulations for setbacks. The one I will point to specifically on 830 01:09:47,279 --> 01:09:56,480 page 38 here is the maximum lot coverage. Given the rule residential 831 01:09:54,000 --> 01:10:01,840 uh nature of this, the rule part still stands out. And the only thing that 832 01:09:58,960 --> 01:10:07,280 might prohibit the amount of sheds that you have on your property is how much 833 01:10:03,760 --> 01:10:13,360 lot coverage it has. Um these are our rules is that you can have no more than 834 01:10:09,760 --> 01:10:20,239 50% of your property in coverage. And so you can't go and get a 2 acre 835 01:10:16,960 --> 01:10:24,400 track and I just fill it up with a bunch of modular homes. That becomes a 836 01:10:22,080 --> 01:10:32,000 subdivision issue. We have subdivision rules for a reason. And so those are the 837 01:10:27,920 --> 01:10:36,159 types of things that we handle there. Additional regulations, we talk about 838 01:10:34,080 --> 01:10:41,440 driveway access, uh waste disposal, water supply, those 839 01:10:39,199 --> 01:10:45,920 things are essential here. Outside of that, residential is always going to be 840 01:10:43,199 --> 01:10:49,360 the most straightforward place here. We have our general setbacks. You need to 841 01:10:47,679 --> 01:10:54,880 have water. You have to have those issues. I'm just popping in here again, 842 01:10:51,840 --> 01:10:58,400 but this is one for me on 52. Number two, the accessory buildings and 843 01:10:56,400 --> 01:11:02,400 structures. Just again, I just want to make this clear that they somebody wants 844 01:11:00,560 --> 01:11:06,400 to put in an additional structure, as long as it's hooked up to water and 845 01:11:03,760 --> 01:11:12,400 sewage on the property, it is permitted by right. So we can have people living 846 01:11:08,880 --> 01:11:16,320 in little houses off the big houses >> in this based upon our definitions. 847 01:11:14,800 --> 01:11:19,040 That's correct what it says. >> Okay. 848 01:11:16,719 --> 01:11:23,280 » Uh unless definitions are requested it be amended. That's what it would be 849 01:11:20,719 --> 01:11:28,000 said. >> Questions about article five. 850 01:11:25,840 --> 01:11:35,280 » So in terms of because I know we talked a little bit about it but the 851 01:11:31,920 --> 01:11:39,679 the tiny houses and such. >> Yeah. 852 01:11:36,880 --> 01:11:42,159 They are allowed only as an accessory building, not as a primary building. 853 01:11:41,679 --> 01:11:44,800 » Correct. >> Under this code, 854 01:11:43,280 --> 01:11:52,239 » they would have to be an accessory building, not the primary. So, you can't 855 01:11:46,880 --> 01:11:58,080 go out and get a a lot under this code and put a tiny home on it specifically. 856 01:11:55,199 --> 01:12:03,040 If it had a residential building as defined in here, 857 01:12:00,800 --> 01:12:07,120 then it would be allowed. >> Okay. So I guess my next question would 858 01:12:04,800 --> 01:12:11,760 be that single family detached dwellings without any codes or inspectors and 859 01:12:09,040 --> 01:12:16,719 knowing people live in tiny houses and container houses. So I can So that's not 860 01:12:14,640 --> 01:12:19,920 allowed for that to be their main house. >> Correct. 861 01:12:17,760 --> 01:12:24,320 » So where do they live? I guess is my this is where we're residential district 862 01:12:22,400 --> 01:12:29,040 but we don't have codes or inspectors but I can't tell them what they can't 863 01:12:26,560 --> 01:12:33,840 you know that just doesn't make sense. Once again, it's a compliance issue. If 864 01:12:30,960 --> 01:12:38,159 you're going to we we can talk about the compliance issues, 865 01:12:35,760 --> 01:12:44,000 a single family. We have a definition for it. We have a separate definition 866 01:12:41,280 --> 01:12:49,960 for modular homes and container homes. And we have a separate definition for 867 01:12:45,920 --> 01:12:49,960 accessory use. Specifically, 868 01:12:50,239 --> 01:12:59,800 that definition for single family homes. We want to go back to 869 01:12:55,840 --> 01:12:59,800 this article 2. 870 01:13:08,480 --> 01:13:11,560 » All right. 871 01:13:12,560 --> 01:13:20,239 » So, we don't have a single family detached dwelling definition. 872 01:13:17,440 --> 01:13:25,760 » So, if that's the case, we would if you want to Well, I just know I've had 873 01:13:23,120 --> 01:13:31,440 somebody call me recently and they are they got a building permit for a tiny 874 01:13:28,800 --> 01:13:35,679 house while they built their new house. So now they can't do this. If somebody 875 01:13:34,159 --> 01:13:41,440 calls me, they're not allowed to do that now. And we've increased our coverage by 876 01:13:38,480 --> 01:13:45,840 70 some%. So >> we haven't 877 01:13:42,880 --> 01:13:50,239 » we have at this point if you want something along those lines and be more 878 01:13:47,760 --> 01:13:54,320 specific, but you're also by creating a new definition for it, you're also 879 01:13:52,480 --> 01:13:58,480 limiting one way or another. >> Well, we are limiting one way or 880 01:13:55,760 --> 01:14:04,560 another. It sounds like >> Josh, do you see this is just 881 01:14:02,719 --> 01:14:11,760 thinking outside the box a little bit? >> Mhm. Um cuz I I understand as far as 882 01:14:09,440 --> 01:14:14,960 rural residential that the likeness of a neighborhood when you have a 883 01:14:13,199 --> 01:14:18,800 neighborhood that typically the house next to it 884 01:14:17,199 --> 01:14:22,880 » maybe doesn't even be exactly the same but similar structure and that's where 885 01:14:20,800 --> 01:14:29,679 maybe a tiny house doesn't fit. >> Yeah. Um, but when we're talking about 886 01:14:26,480 --> 01:14:35,760 more the rural area, you know, when you have a a primary 887 01:14:32,880 --> 01:14:40,880 house that let's say mold, for example, and there's no one around, 888 01:14:38,719 --> 01:14:44,400 does a tiny house really hurt anyone? I mean, I'm just thinking for the the 889 01:14:42,719 --> 01:14:49,360 questions I want to have to ask because it it may be it may be enough for one 890 01:14:46,880 --> 01:14:53,600 person or for a personal for a person that in that area [clears throat] that 891 01:14:51,760 --> 01:14:57,360 doesn't belong next to a half million dollar house. I get that as well. I'm 892 01:14:55,840 --> 01:15:02,159 just throwing a question out there. >> Here's here here's my statement about 893 01:14:59,040 --> 01:15:08,560 it. Our housing inventory and our housing changes as a society overall are 894 01:15:06,560 --> 01:15:13,760 changing. The idea of tiny homes would have never 895 01:15:11,199 --> 01:15:16,640 been considered beyond what we used to call the cracker jack houses back in the 896 01:15:15,920 --> 01:15:21,840 50s. >> Right? 897 01:15:18,400 --> 01:15:28,480 » Nobody would have considered it now. The idea that we are off-rid or all 898 01:15:26,000 --> 01:15:35,120 these different things have changed how we look at housing in entirety 899 01:15:32,080 --> 01:15:40,480 and the availability of materials and those types of things. Reuse, repurpose 900 01:15:38,480 --> 01:15:46,080 All these things have changed what we normally do. 901 01:15:42,480 --> 01:15:51,199 The accessory building use allowance was specifically for things that we could 902 01:15:48,239 --> 01:15:57,920 foresee. But if somebody wanted to put a tiny home onto a piece of property, say 903 01:15:53,760 --> 01:16:05,120 a single bachelor farmer, that you know, I've got this land. Um I used to have a 904 01:16:01,520 --> 01:16:09,920 t a house in town. My wife died. I sold my house. My kids aren't coming back for 905 01:16:07,520 --> 01:16:14,320 any reason. I'm going to put this container house that I bought down on 69 906 01:16:12,320 --> 01:16:18,560 Highway right here on my ground. I've got a little pasture. I've got a shop 907 01:16:16,239 --> 01:16:22,080 that's got a shower and a tub and bathroom in there. I put a little hot 908 01:16:20,560 --> 01:16:25,080 plate in there and I'm perfectly content. 909 01:16:25,760 --> 01:16:34,080 My question in our type of world is how much authority do we have to tell him 910 01:16:32,080 --> 01:16:37,679 that he can't live like that? >> That's my question. That's my question 911 01:16:35,840 --> 01:16:39,840 too because you basically said that we're not going to let them look like 912 01:16:39,199 --> 01:16:45,840 that. >> But the the basis for that is also on 913 01:16:43,679 --> 01:16:52,320 the previous conversations and what's in our previous code. 914 01:16:48,080 --> 01:16:57,360 That conversation is a theoretical and and philosophical argument that I hope 915 01:16:54,719 --> 01:17:03,698 we have here. Cuz at this point in time, you would be telling me that anything 916 01:17:01,440 --> 01:17:09,040 that is designed for the sole purpose [clears throat and cough] of residential 917 01:17:05,360 --> 01:17:13,920 living is a permitted as a single family detached dwelling. 918 01:17:10,960 --> 01:17:18,400 » Should we get those inspectors? I mean, that's just the whole thing. It 919 01:17:15,760 --> 01:17:22,400 goes back to that in my world and you tell people that oh this is just 920 01:17:20,239 --> 01:17:28,719 theoretical but don't build please. I mean 921 01:17:24,080 --> 01:17:30,880 » I I mean I'm just curious how this I mean this is the time to address this 922 01:17:30,239 --> 01:17:35,120 obviously. >> Yeah. 923 01:17:31,280 --> 01:17:42,480 » Um because I do see a niche where those are not only adequate but I mean pretty 924 01:17:39,040 --> 01:17:46,560 cool. I wish I had 15 acres of my walnut and had a tiny house on it and I would I 925 01:17:44,880 --> 01:17:50,560 would would live there probably, but I would stay there. 926 01:17:47,840 --> 01:17:56,159 » I have a hunting ground. We have a tin. >> For me, that's kind of a they do have 927 01:17:53,679 --> 01:18:00,159 their niche now. I get the neighbor that doesn't want to have one right next 928 01:17:57,600 --> 01:18:04,320 door, right across the street in a in a nice neighborhood. I understand that as 929 01:18:01,440 --> 01:18:08,320 well. So, how do we address that? That's 930 01:18:06,800 --> 01:18:11,320 right. I'm going to say how we address this. 931 01:18:14,480 --> 01:18:22,000 » That would have been my next suggestion. The actual what I would say is we 932 01:18:19,040 --> 01:18:25,840 changed the definition for the accessory use. And if you want to allow modular 933 01:18:24,159 --> 01:18:30,719 tiny homes, you add them as a conditional use. And that way you have 934 01:18:27,920 --> 01:18:33,440 the ability to designate them and determine their uh 935 01:18:32,719 --> 01:18:39,920 » fit >> their fit on a case by case basis. 936 01:18:36,480 --> 01:18:45,840 That's what it works. Well, my uh opinion about that is if you 937 01:18:43,199 --> 01:18:49,520 let one, you're going to have another one and you're going to have another one 938 01:18:47,280 --> 01:18:54,320 and you're going to have another one cuz they say you went so and so put one in 939 01:18:51,920 --> 01:19:00,960 and this person here owns ground next to $200 or $300,000 house. He's the person 940 01:18:58,159 --> 01:19:04,274 owns the ground. How you how you going to stop him? [cough] 941 01:19:04,400 --> 01:19:12,480 Here's my direct statement. I >> I really I I mean, you know the area, 942 01:19:10,159 --> 01:19:17,600 but I don't think I You just don't know how people operate here. I'm sorry. 943 01:19:15,120 --> 01:19:20,640 » And that's true. I haven't lived here in 20 years. 944 01:19:18,719 --> 01:19:25,280 » But you know the area in general. >> Yeah. And here's what I would tell you. 945 01:19:22,239 --> 01:19:29,360 I live in community just like this cuz guess what? 946 01:19:27,120 --> 01:19:35,600 Andover has some of the most expensive houses in Sedwick County. 947 01:19:32,880 --> 01:19:41,760 They took their subdivision for the most expensive houses and they split it off 948 01:19:38,640 --> 01:19:46,640 from the city as a whole, completely 949 01:19:43,679 --> 01:19:53,440 created a outside world by adding screening by the tune of 30 foot pines 950 01:19:51,199 --> 01:19:58,400 and then put gated community doors at it. So if you want to live in the $5 951 01:19:56,080 --> 01:20:03,440 million homes, that's where you're going cuz that's where they're built. 952 01:20:00,800 --> 01:20:09,280 My direct statement to the tiny home versus putting it in next to a $300,000 953 01:20:06,640 --> 01:20:14,960 home is planning and zoning allows us to have 954 01:20:11,679 --> 01:20:22,239 authority on those golden rules, public safety, health, and general welfare. 955 01:20:19,360 --> 01:20:29,760 If it fits to where it is the antagonist of one of those things, we can limit it. 956 01:20:26,159 --> 01:20:35,920 If it does not, you better be able to defend it. 957 01:20:33,120 --> 01:20:40,320 » Does it would have got something to highlight back here cuz under 958 01:20:37,840 --> 01:20:45,679 conditional use permit standards, you have is compatible with existing and 959 01:20:43,760 --> 01:20:50,159 permitted land use. >> Where' you? 960 01:20:46,400 --> 01:20:55,199 » I'm on page 32, but when I read that is compatible with existing Yeah. would be 961 01:20:52,880 --> 01:20:58,159 similar to a city that you know if I want to put a development in this area 962 01:20:56,719 --> 01:21:02,640 they got curbing gutter I have to have curbing gutter well this is gerard 963 01:20:59,920 --> 01:21:09,760 standards if I don't have curbing gutter then I can do you know just or 964 01:21:06,880 --> 01:21:13,920 whatever so can that termin be used and something like that as far as 965 01:21:11,280 --> 01:21:18,400 conditional use item that you know what is 966 01:21:15,679 --> 01:21:22,719 the word I said there compatible >> compatible with neighboring properties 967 01:21:21,040 --> 01:21:25,280 it it can Um 968 01:21:23,520 --> 01:21:30,159 » I mean obviously conditional use it would come to us for approval and then 969 01:21:27,760 --> 01:21:33,600 the neighbors would have the right to be involved well go to the zoning board. 970 01:21:32,080 --> 01:21:36,560 Sorry. Yes. Neighbors would have the right to 971 01:21:34,320 --> 01:21:42,480 » to come in whatever >> and so we go during that commit that 972 01:21:39,360 --> 01:21:47,760 conditional use hearing process. There's the need notice requirement uh and 973 01:21:45,199 --> 01:21:53,520 that's from the corners of in the meats and bounds of the property,000 ft 974 01:21:51,199 --> 01:21:58,560 right out there. If your neighbors have a problem with it 975 01:21:55,920 --> 01:22:03,600 and they come in and launch a protest and they are able to articulate the same 976 01:22:01,440 --> 01:22:09,920 rules of why they are just in a different way, then your planning 977 01:22:06,400 --> 01:22:16,280 commission has the authority to consider those as part of their decision as well. 978 01:22:13,280 --> 01:22:16,280 » Okay. 979 01:22:17,280 --> 01:22:22,320 » Yeah. I'm just trying to figure out a way to be fair. So, what I would suggest 980 01:22:20,400 --> 01:22:28,639 is based on the comments that I'm hearing is for article 5 is consider 981 01:22:25,920 --> 01:22:34,880 taking those modular uh [clears throat] tiny homes out of the 982 01:22:31,440 --> 01:22:43,520 accessory use definition itself and allow them as 983 01:22:38,639 --> 01:22:47,760 as a conditional use within the district or 984 01:22:45,199 --> 01:22:50,719 to to have further discussions upon those 985 01:22:49,520 --> 01:22:54,000 clarification. >> Okay, 986 01:22:51,440 --> 01:22:58,880 » there again, I I I know you I know what you're going to say. I just 987 01:22:57,280 --> 01:23:01,120 » We don't need it. >> Okay, 988 01:22:59,280 --> 01:23:04,800 » but like I say, we went through this on other articles, so 989 01:23:02,960 --> 01:23:12,080 » I'm not going to repeat myself. >> Okay. 990 01:23:06,719 --> 01:23:19,040 Any other comments on article five? Um what what's the purpose of uh 991 01:23:15,520 --> 01:23:20,880 no more than 10 acre just 992 01:23:19,600 --> 01:23:25,480 » more than 10 acres you should be agricultural use that's why 993 01:23:26,080 --> 01:23:36,159 » I'm just curious on that >> you're on an animal cropless farm grace 994 01:23:31,120 --> 01:23:38,239 grass cut you got so yeah that makes sense 995 01:23:47,360 --> 01:23:50,360 102. 996 01:23:52,080 --> 01:23:58,920 Yeah. So that's the maximum for res 997 01:24:01,679 --> 01:24:07,543 but it's on agricultural land too. >> [cough and clears throat] 998 01:24:08,400 --> 01:24:16,960 » General commercial article six. This is your general commercial areas. Um this 999 01:24:15,520 --> 01:24:21,760 will have a lot more to do with your comprehensive planning secondary because 1000 01:24:20,400 --> 01:24:26,719 when you're doing comprehensive planning, you'll um do commercial 1001 01:24:24,320 --> 01:24:32,320 overlays and corridors. But these are your basic permitted uses. It's not an 1002 01:24:29,120 --> 01:24:38,080 exhaustive list. conditional uses, accessory uses. 1003 01:24:35,440 --> 01:24:43,199 Uh these are your maximum lot coverages and things such as that, sign areas, 1004 01:24:40,880 --> 01:24:46,880 parking requirements. Uh the parking requirements we actually discussed at 1005 01:24:44,800 --> 01:24:52,000 Nazium pretty well to make sure that we felt that there was [snorts] enough 1006 01:24:47,920 --> 01:25:00,880 parking area, land and service areas, and your signage. 1007 01:24:55,840 --> 01:25:06,159 We do not have a full sign code uh is in the previous book and I know 1008 01:25:04,320 --> 01:25:10,159 that that might be a contentious area here based upon previous conversations 1009 01:25:08,719 --> 01:25:14,239 that we've had within the commission itself. 1010 01:25:11,679 --> 01:25:19,600 » That's something we can look at if if needed. If it's a contentious 1011 01:25:17,120 --> 01:25:26,480 thing that we need more of a definition than what is in the book, 1012 01:25:22,480 --> 01:25:30,719 I invite you to come back with specific instructions on what you're wanting and 1013 01:25:28,639 --> 01:25:34,960 looking at. is your sign regula. My problem is is 1014 01:25:33,040 --> 01:25:41,679 that the current sign regulations here dwell into other 1015 01:25:39,840 --> 01:25:47,600 areas where we might not necessarily have the ability to actually 1016 01:25:44,239 --> 01:25:54,000 do any compliance and there might be arguments of whether or not those codes 1017 01:25:51,040 --> 01:25:59,760 there would infringe upon other basic rights of businesses themselves. 1018 01:25:56,800 --> 01:26:05,360 I would prefer to see it more if you have a basic and if they want to do 1019 01:26:01,760 --> 01:26:12,440 something better or bigger, grander. It falls off of the conditional use permits 1020 01:26:09,440 --> 01:26:12,440 area 1021 01:26:13,199 --> 01:26:21,639 and uh if you want to add it, that's where I would add it as a conditional 1022 01:26:18,239 --> 01:26:21,639 use consideration. 1023 01:26:22,320 --> 01:26:28,960 The only thing I have um just an idea 1024 01:26:28,560 --> 01:26:34,320 » uh >> as far as the permitted by right 1025 01:26:32,560 --> 01:26:38,080 » cuz we don't even know where the general commercial district will lie yet because 1026 01:26:36,159 --> 01:26:42,400 you haven't established the map. >> Yeah. 1027 01:26:40,639 --> 01:26:48,320 » Is it okay? Well, I guess I know it's okay. 1028 01:26:43,760 --> 01:26:53,360 My recommendation is that we stall on the permitted by right piece 1029 01:26:50,480 --> 01:26:59,600 until we get a feel for this and if we transition into that later whenever 1030 01:26:56,800 --> 01:27:06,480 we know what that looks like because I guess explain permitted by right to me 1031 01:27:02,080 --> 01:27:12,400 if it's already z so currently you have a commercial district and an 1032 01:27:08,719 --> 01:27:16,400 industrial district in here you have maybe eight total properties that might 1033 01:27:14,719 --> 01:27:19,520 be actually zoned commercial, >> right? 1034 01:27:16,960 --> 01:27:23,280 » All with existing businesses on them. Most of the time when you're doing a 1035 01:27:21,040 --> 01:27:27,040 commercial business, it's either going to be a conditional use permit for one 1036 01:27:25,120 --> 01:27:33,400 of your other or as a whole reszoning part. 1037 01:27:33,815 --> 01:27:40,800 [sighs] When we do a a new zoning, what we're 1038 01:27:38,400 --> 01:27:45,840 saying is that the future planning of this means that while this may be an 1039 01:27:43,440 --> 01:27:50,239 agricultural non-compliant use right now, 1040 01:27:48,159 --> 01:27:55,360 any additional or new [clears throat] building needs to be going through our 1041 01:27:53,120 --> 01:28:00,560 proposed general commercial district and what we do a permitted right for those 1042 01:27:58,719 --> 01:28:05,440 corridors. So that's where the comprehensive plan comes in specifically 1043 01:28:02,719 --> 01:28:09,920 and says this is where we foresee businesses coming in. This is where we 1044 01:28:07,199 --> 01:28:14,560 foresee what needs to be here and these are the types of businesses that we 1045 01:28:12,480 --> 01:28:20,800 would allow in these areas without needing to go 1046 01:28:18,400 --> 01:28:25,520 through a full hearing only a building permit. So retail sales and services, 1047 01:28:24,400 --> 01:28:32,159 these are going to be your grocery stores, the personal services, salons, 1048 01:28:28,880 --> 01:28:37,040 all these things outside of a m mixeduse development is one of those things that 1049 01:28:34,239 --> 01:28:41,920 I always say it can go either way for conditional use. 1050 01:28:40,239 --> 01:28:47,199 But those are the general businesses that we 1051 01:28:43,760 --> 01:28:51,920 want to have in our community. They have community purpose and community 1052 01:28:49,360 --> 01:28:57,040 strengths. They have everything that you want and we do not want to be seen as 1053 01:28:54,639 --> 01:29:02,560 specifically trying to limit business at all. But for these businesses, come 1054 01:29:00,480 --> 01:29:06,880 right in. We're proud to have you in Crawford County. We're proud to have you 1055 01:29:04,239 --> 01:29:10,239 here. We're not going to interfere with you at all. Just let us know you're 1056 01:29:08,480 --> 01:29:13,920 coming. We're friendly. We're welcoming. Come on 1057 01:29:12,480 --> 01:29:18,880 in. The only thing I can because I've had 1058 01:29:15,920 --> 01:29:23,920 conversations with people that have are looking to buy a property I've done 1059 01:29:21,840 --> 01:29:28,560 several times with people looking to buy a property. They have to do a change in 1060 01:29:25,920 --> 01:29:32,880 use because it's zone >> and then obviously we most time that 1061 01:29:30,800 --> 01:29:38,320 drives them off. Yeah, >> I'm okay with the idea of the, 1062 01:29:37,040 --> 01:29:42,880 you know, the general commercial district depending on where they fall 1063 01:29:40,880 --> 01:29:49,360 » and the idea that these are pretty much same as a shoe in not a problem. 1064 01:29:46,320 --> 01:29:53,360 » I still think it's important for us to be involved in that process in the 1065 01:29:51,840 --> 01:29:58,320 beginning steps of this. And that's what that's all I'm asking is the fact that 1066 01:29:55,679 --> 01:30:01,679 that Okay. Yeah. Yeah. You're running a a medical clinic. you're not going to 1067 01:30:00,159 --> 01:30:05,679 have a problem with reszoning, but this is what the process looks like and we 1068 01:30:03,360 --> 01:30:07,600 want to work with you. Does that make sense? 1069 01:30:06,239 --> 01:30:10,239 » It it makes sense. >> I know what you're trying to I 1070 01:30:09,120 --> 01:30:14,159 understand what you're doing because it's more of an approach that these 1071 01:30:12,320 --> 01:30:18,960 things are automatically checked off. May does it, she as long as the permit 1072 01:30:16,560 --> 01:30:24,080 goes as long as it checks that box, it gets approved and we're not involved is 1073 01:30:21,040 --> 01:30:28,239 how I feel in my graphic. Right. >> It checks these boxes. These are the 1074 01:30:26,400 --> 01:30:31,600 things we're good at. >> Yeah. And it's going to make sure that 1075 01:30:29,600 --> 01:30:34,560 you have that parking storage, you've got this, you got that, you've got 1076 01:30:33,360 --> 01:30:38,400 loading, you've got access. >> I don't have I don't have a problem with 1077 01:30:36,080 --> 01:30:43,440 this list. I think it's great because then So, if there's a property that 1078 01:30:40,400 --> 01:30:46,400 falls within that to make one right now, the person's wanting to buy it, but 1079 01:30:44,960 --> 01:30:52,320 they're scared going shut down the zoning. I think that the idea that it's 1080 01:30:49,360 --> 01:30:54,880 on this list as one of these uses is same as yeah, you're going to get 1081 01:30:53,600 --> 01:30:59,920 through unless there just something major that comes up. It's not the same 1082 01:30:57,199 --> 01:31:05,920 as changing the zoning use, turning a restaurant to a, you know, manufacturing 1083 01:31:02,320 --> 01:31:09,600 facility or the idea too is it's a district. It's commercial district is 1084 01:31:08,080 --> 01:31:14,000 going to be in that district. >> You're going to put everything that's 1085 01:31:11,360 --> 01:31:20,320 going in is going to be commercial. I look at this specifically right there. 1086 01:31:16,800 --> 01:31:24,719 uh north or just to the west of Armo where they put the Dollar General. 1087 01:31:22,960 --> 01:31:29,440 That's agricultural land that was converted into commercial use. You got 1088 01:31:27,120 --> 01:31:34,880 that Dollar General there. You have that as a corridor because we already have an 1089 01:31:32,000 --> 01:31:41,120 anchor property. Now, it makes better sense for us to 1090 01:31:37,920 --> 01:31:45,040 designate that as a future commercial use. So, we're saying, "Okay, this 1091 01:31:43,520 --> 01:31:50,159 property, we're saying we want this developed. We 1092 01:31:47,920 --> 01:31:55,280 want you to come in here. Give us a pitch." And if you come in and it's a 1093 01:31:53,360 --> 01:32:02,880 retail store, so we've got Dollar General there. Uh, say you want to put, 1094 01:32:00,480 --> 01:32:09,840 you know, a ace there, nice hardware store, Tractor 1095 01:32:07,280 --> 01:32:15,120 Supply, something along those lines. Well, now we're saying, "Okay, you come 1096 01:32:12,560 --> 01:32:20,480 in here, you check off these boxes, you give me your plan, I give you your 1097 01:32:17,199 --> 01:32:27,840 building permit, and unless something comes up that we're off the walls, we're 1098 01:32:24,639 --> 01:32:34,639 accomplishing our goal is developing that portion for commercial use." 1099 01:32:31,600 --> 01:32:39,120 And that's what we want to do is we're saying these are the areas where we find 1100 01:32:37,120 --> 01:32:47,480 we have commercial use. this is where we wanted. Let's go ahead and do it. 1101 01:32:43,199 --> 01:32:47,480 Having our fingers in the pie. 1102 01:32:48,080 --> 01:32:57,920 Going through and having a conditional use permit for every business that comes 1103 01:32:53,199 --> 01:33:03,920 into a a community is just that it can be a hindrance. 1104 01:32:59,760 --> 01:33:08,880 Um, I'll tell you as as an attorney representing those businesses, 1105 01:33:07,199 --> 01:33:14,560 me telling them that they're going to have to come in and hire me, 1106 01:33:12,000 --> 01:33:19,679 that this is the $800 that they're going to spend on the permit itself, 1107 01:33:17,600 --> 01:33:26,320 that this is how much the survey is going to cost. This is how much I 1108 01:33:23,440 --> 01:33:30,159 already just spent $350,000 on a flat property. 1109 01:33:28,800 --> 01:33:36,480 You're telling me I'm going to have to drop another five to 10 grand to be able 1110 01:33:33,760 --> 01:33:40,960 to use it when this is something that we're 1111 01:33:38,239 --> 01:33:45,440 saying, you know, put it in Dollar General. That's that's my only concern. 1112 01:33:43,440 --> 01:33:49,840 » Yeah. But I tell you right now, the ones we've dealt with in my last 8 years have 1113 01:33:47,679 --> 01:33:53,360 been almost scratched out on paper. Here's what I'm planning on doing, and I 1114 01:33:52,000 --> 01:33:57,360 don't think they spent anything other than their day coming over and talking 1115 01:33:54,800 --> 01:34:01,440 to us. And I'm not disagreeing. I'm sure it's like that most of these things 1116 01:34:00,000 --> 01:34:03,440 right now are happening within the cities and we're not even involved. 1117 01:34:03,120 --> 01:34:06,880 » Yeah, >> I could count three maybe that we've 1118 01:34:05,600 --> 01:34:12,560 been involved in. >> It'd be nice to see more, but it's just 1119 01:34:08,800 --> 01:34:16,239 a fact that uh all three of those at least the last one, the one that 1120 01:34:13,920 --> 01:34:21,679 happened in Franklin, you know, it was it brought out good conversations. We 1121 01:34:19,280 --> 01:34:25,760 went back to the zoning committee and they resolved the things and they got 1122 01:34:23,440 --> 01:34:30,080 approved and it was building done. Yeah. But so I'm just asking cuz I just that's 1123 01:34:28,480 --> 01:34:32,080 how I read it. I just clarifying that's what it meant. 1124 01:34:31,360 --> 01:34:36,560 » Yeah, >> I don't necessarily mind it as far as me 1125 01:34:34,800 --> 01:34:41,440 being responsible for everything. I almost would like more than just do you 1126 01:34:39,199 --> 01:34:46,400 have 3 acres and enough parking spots because I I can't tell you what hours 1127 01:34:44,400 --> 01:34:50,560 you can be open and closed. I can't tell you your lighting. I can't tell you your 1128 01:34:48,239 --> 01:34:54,560 security. You could play music for all night for all we know. I know that goes 1129 01:34:52,239 --> 01:35:00,239 back to the spirit, but at the same token, I just signed off on it and you 1130 01:34:57,280 --> 01:35:04,000 did live. You gave me something, you did another, but you're permitted by right 1131 01:35:02,080 --> 01:35:07,360 because you still fall under that. You see where I'm going a little bit with 1132 01:35:05,360 --> 01:35:12,239 it? These are just thoughts that I have when I'm home at night. As far as me 1133 01:35:10,000 --> 01:35:16,880 permitting this and me being responsible for any business on 6,900 that 1134 01:35:14,639 --> 01:35:22,560 everybody's going to see when they come to town. 1135 01:35:19,840 --> 01:35:26,159 So, I don't know how this do it differently without going into a 1136 01:35:24,320 --> 01:35:30,480 full-blown conditional land use, but I'd like to maybe see something a little bit 1137 01:35:28,400 --> 01:35:36,719 in between if it's possible. >> But, but they we run through the same 1138 01:35:33,040 --> 01:35:41,440 thing here parking lot. The people across the 1139 01:35:39,040 --> 01:35:47,360 street was fighting it. They got together with the zoning administrator 1140 01:35:44,639 --> 01:35:51,840 and uh went and took care of. But my problem is if if you don't have no 1141 01:35:49,520 --> 01:35:55,280 nothing down in writing, then people could tell you'll fly kite. The ones is 1142 01:35:53,840 --> 01:35:59,840 doing this. Yeah. >> Because I own the ground. But if we 1143 01:35:57,920 --> 01:36:04,320 don't have no regulations up there, just like I was reading about that sign there 1144 01:36:02,239 --> 01:36:10,320 and also at the same time, I'm taking your part. Uh home occupations, there's 1145 01:36:07,280 --> 01:36:15,120 a lot of that popping up. A 4ft sign. Hey, it it they're doing this in 1146 01:36:12,880 --> 01:36:19,360 residential areas in the county. How much is there? So, what we don't have no 1147 01:36:17,760 --> 01:36:25,440 power to stop it. >> Home occupations have a different sign 1148 01:36:21,280 --> 01:36:31,840 on their definition specifically, but >> you're right on your argument. 1149 01:36:28,239 --> 01:36:36,480 There should be a 24-hour fitness stand to play music, keep people pumped up all 1150 01:36:33,840 --> 01:36:44,400 afternoon. That's I did that. 1151 01:36:39,920 --> 01:36:48,800 » Well, I know that article going to come with a map. 1152 01:36:46,480 --> 01:36:51,800 So, he's address 1153 01:36:53,360 --> 01:37:00,239 our chair. Come on. 1154 01:36:57,440 --> 01:37:05,119 » Well, I see what's going on. The best bet to handle this situation, listen to 1155 01:37:02,560 --> 01:37:09,840 what everybody's saying is put it in a conditional use where it comes in front 1156 01:37:07,199 --> 01:37:16,480 of the zoning board. You got what, eight, nine members there 1157 01:37:12,880 --> 01:37:22,719 to approve it. Plus, when you do that, you get people in the surrounding areas 1158 01:37:19,199 --> 01:37:28,639 have input into it. So, we get a good way of getting everybody's input into it 1159 01:37:25,600 --> 01:37:36,480 instead of just one person. Well, what I mean, you're right, but 1160 01:37:32,639 --> 01:37:40,400 what I'm saying is where do you have the teeth? 1161 01:37:38,320 --> 01:37:45,760 Like, if you bring it up to us or May brings it up to us and someone says, 1162 01:37:42,880 --> 01:37:51,199 "Well, this is not so and so." Hey, where do we have that? Just like this uh 1163 01:37:48,480 --> 01:37:55,440 home occupation. Okay, I'll tell you. I don't We don't have all 1164 01:37:53,360 --> 01:38:00,480 this. We don't have it down for this is the way it is. I'll tell you guys what I 1165 01:37:57,840 --> 01:38:05,440 brought up down in the meetings more than one time and even at the last 1166 01:38:02,560 --> 01:38:10,639 meeting before up here I said let's put a resolution in there that you inspector 1167 01:38:09,040 --> 01:38:15,960 because that's what it's going to take to enforce the regulations you have 1168 01:38:16,159 --> 01:38:23,679 it's either that or you get the sheriff and then people behind it which you're 1169 01:38:22,000 --> 01:38:30,679 doing I mean we need an inspection 1170 01:38:26,800 --> 01:38:30,679 this I know that's 1171 01:38:33,119 --> 01:38:39,920 because what you want to do that's what it's 1172 01:38:37,280 --> 01:38:45,920 going to take for all this 1173 01:38:42,639 --> 01:38:52,000 but you just go back and look at this any municipalities 1174 01:38:49,119 --> 01:38:57,760 or incorporated like Pittsburgh they all got the same missions we have 1175 01:38:55,199 --> 01:39:02,960 they have to get somebody to enforce it and then you have to spend the money go 1176 01:39:00,480 --> 01:39:09,719 whatever and some of these issues out there can 1177 01:39:05,600 --> 01:39:09,719 run through your nuisance court 1178 01:39:09,760 --> 01:39:20,320 I mean I but how can you do this you know people don't think 1179 01:39:16,639 --> 01:39:25,199 I'm holding on this deal occupation hey they can run 24/7 they can have two 1180 01:39:22,880 --> 01:39:28,440 people in there three people in there But rather 1181 01:39:32,320 --> 01:39:42,440 say operations or something that's one of the things 1182 01:39:39,440 --> 01:39:42,440 they 1183 01:39:43,600 --> 01:39:53,800 can be put off is operation and we've done that 1184 01:39:50,800 --> 01:39:53,800 occoning 1185 01:39:55,520 --> 01:40:01,679 meeting. If it's going on in the four walls of their home and nowhere else 1186 01:39:59,440 --> 01:40:06,719 isn't our business and we talked about that. 1187 01:40:02,800 --> 01:40:11,440 » Yeah, but it's a business people having party share for noise. 1188 01:40:09,280 --> 01:40:14,800 This is why it'll be talked about this if it happens 1189 01:40:13,119 --> 01:40:18,480 in the four walls of their house. >> I agree with what you're saying. It's in 1190 01:40:16,639 --> 01:40:25,119 the four walls of their house. But the part that concerns me is the coming and 1191 01:40:20,960 --> 01:40:29,280 going if that's going to impact. >> And typically like in our old like when 1192 01:40:27,119 --> 01:40:34,159 we had a whole occupation, we had like attorney, architect, hairdresser, stuff 1193 01:40:31,760 --> 01:40:38,560 like that. That's not a high traffic event. It was the same people like my 1194 01:40:36,719 --> 01:40:43,360 hairdresser has the same people over and over. And that was it's just something 1195 01:40:41,040 --> 01:40:46,239 to think about. These are we're here today to have this discussion. 1196 01:40:44,960 --> 01:40:53,520 » That's right. And that's what we're trying to do. I mean seriously but it 1197 01:40:49,119 --> 01:40:59,199 just seems like but the way I see the on commercial stuff eas 1198 01:40:56,560 --> 01:41:06,639 would be unconditional use it's a starting point 1199 01:41:02,000 --> 01:41:10,280 where this all goes I do understand it's a lot of change 1200 01:41:12,719 --> 01:41:19,360 I mean it's a lot of change we're Well, I I I 1201 01:41:17,360 --> 01:41:23,040 understand the message I had to clean up a couple months ago with this whole 1202 01:41:20,960 --> 01:41:26,239 talk. You know, it's not we're not tell people what to do and this that I'm 1203 01:41:25,040 --> 01:41:29,760 hearing we're not getting enough bite, not enough teeth on all this stuff and 1204 01:41:27,840 --> 01:41:33,600 it's starting to make me a little upset. I mean, I'm trying to be realistic with 1205 01:41:31,360 --> 01:41:38,719 the idea that I understand these things are come here. I know it adds a little 1206 01:41:36,239 --> 01:41:41,280 bit more stress on our zoning board to to hear some of these. But sometimes 1207 01:41:40,000 --> 01:41:46,159 there's a little conversation we're dealing with one a year or maybe two a 1208 01:41:43,760 --> 01:41:51,119 year is it's worth it until we get to the point where we can maybe look at 1209 01:41:48,639 --> 01:41:56,080 » a codes enforcer if that ever comes to a point fruition and [clears throat] look 1210 01:41:52,960 --> 01:41:59,920 at that transition because if we grow that will happen. 1211 01:41:57,760 --> 01:42:05,679 » And that's the point here is the rules might have 1212 01:42:02,800 --> 01:42:12,239 some growing pains. probably will >> and and that's just part of why [snorts] 1213 01:42:09,119 --> 01:42:15,679 part of the rules are also meant to go along with what our comprehensive plan 1214 01:42:14,480 --> 01:42:19,920 is >> to help us grow so we might have some 1215 01:42:17,760 --> 01:42:26,320 revenue to be able to pay for a building inspector thing I understand um what I 1216 01:42:23,600 --> 01:42:32,000 would suggest is this is a complete change of once again instructions 1217 01:42:29,600 --> 01:42:36,560 thoughts uh that way when we come back to it we already have an idea idea of 1218 01:42:34,560 --> 01:42:40,800 what you guys are thinking here because once again we make recommendations 1219 01:42:38,880 --> 01:42:46,080 » right what I would like to see personally what I would like to see is a 1220 01:42:43,040 --> 01:42:50,400 model that grows towards this I think it's this is a big jump for us right now 1221 01:42:48,000 --> 01:42:56,639 I think I think this is end goal this is where we need to be but even if it's a 1222 01:42:53,840 --> 01:43:02,080 4year plan or threeear plan then we look at this every year and try to get closer 1223 01:42:58,400 --> 01:43:05,679 to that I get the purpose behind it and I think it becomes easier when you start 1224 01:43:04,000 --> 01:43:11,199 taking some of those areas. When you take that uh commercial district and you 1225 01:43:08,639 --> 01:43:14,159 you have one here and you have one here and fill it up in the middle, it's not a 1226 01:43:12,719 --> 01:43:18,639 big deal anymore because you're already surrounded with two businesses. It it 1227 01:43:16,239 --> 01:43:22,480 kind of helps itself. But with some of this blank canvas, it's going to be 1228 01:43:21,119 --> 01:43:28,400 difficult in the beginning. >> Yep. And I understand the grow paints 1229 01:43:24,639 --> 01:43:32,080 and that's what this meeting is about. Bob and I had this conversation before 1230 01:43:30,480 --> 01:43:36,400 you. I have never walked into a county 1231 01:43:34,159 --> 01:43:41,600 commission after giving them a new set of regulations, especially changing 1232 01:43:39,119 --> 01:43:46,719 something like this, and not expect to come back and have recommendations, 1233 01:43:44,560 --> 01:43:53,360 changes, and things like that. It's just not possible. And that's why we did it 1234 01:43:50,560 --> 01:43:57,360 in article by article. We know that those changes are going to come. The 1235 01:43:55,119 --> 01:44:00,639 things that we know are good, we leave. The things that we need to change, we're 1236 01:43:59,040 --> 01:44:05,440 not redoing entire book. We're just doing article by article. 1237 01:44:03,040 --> 01:44:08,440 Any other thoughts on article 6 for conversation? 1238 01:44:09,760 --> 01:44:17,600 Okay. Article 7 subdivisions. Now, this is a article that is near and dear to 1239 01:44:15,280 --> 01:44:22,480 May's heart and uh she has her definite opinions 1240 01:44:20,080 --> 01:44:28,719 about it that I appreciate because you guys have an entire set of regulations 1241 01:44:26,000 --> 01:44:33,760 all together. And so we tried to take some of the 1242 01:44:30,800 --> 01:44:39,679 things for subdivisions in there and we put it out here. The thought for my 1243 01:44:36,960 --> 01:44:43,440 subdivision recommendations and what we talked about in the plans and I know 1244 01:44:41,280 --> 01:44:47,679 that May has her disagreements and I understand because she's going to be the 1245 01:44:45,040 --> 01:44:55,199 one that's doing this is that no subdivision is equal to the next. 1246 01:44:51,520 --> 01:45:01,679 that every subdivision has to be its own entity, its own rules, its own 1247 01:44:58,719 --> 01:45:07,280 everything because you're grouping all these properties together and trying to 1248 01:45:04,320 --> 01:45:14,960 maintain them in one unique form and idea. And so my subdivision and what we 1249 01:45:12,320 --> 01:45:22,159 talked about here and and went through down 1250 01:45:16,480 --> 01:45:27,840 is a way for us more of having that conditional use style going through and 1251 01:45:25,199 --> 01:45:34,960 looking at this individually having that premeating with with 1252 01:45:32,400 --> 01:45:41,199 May public hearings planning commission recommendation and then coming up for 1253 01:45:37,280 --> 01:45:47,280 governing body approval. But the administration also comes in and 1254 01:45:44,560 --> 01:45:51,840 talks about monitoring, enforcement and remedies, how we are 1255 01:45:49,360 --> 01:45:56,480 going to enforce it. We use civil penalties, injunction, illegal action, 1256 01:45:54,239 --> 01:46:00,639 stop work orders, all those things. appeals reporting. 1257 01:45:58,719 --> 01:46:10,040 Those are the sections that we put in there specifically to try to come out 1258 01:46:04,639 --> 01:46:10,040 and look at things to make it 1259 01:46:10,159 --> 01:46:20,000 conducive for growth, but not overly saying, well, this is one shoe fits all, 1260 01:46:17,119 --> 01:46:25,280 one half fits all. Everything has to be different. If I'm going to put a bunch 1261 01:46:22,000 --> 01:46:30,159 of houses that go along a hill that has a large strip pit that I'm using as a 1262 01:46:28,080 --> 01:46:33,920 recreational fishing hole and things like that and I'm using that as my 1263 01:46:31,679 --> 01:46:39,679 basis, that is going to be completely different from a subdivision that's over 1264 01:46:37,119 --> 01:46:45,600 by Franklin that is on completely flat ground that is just that. It's a 1265 01:46:42,320 --> 01:46:50,960 subdivision of houses. And so that was the common goal here. 1266 01:46:48,560 --> 01:46:56,000 Going to page 45. Uh, lot splits. This is another thing 1267 01:46:53,119 --> 01:47:03,560 that we went and had a significant lot of conversation about. 1268 01:46:59,520 --> 01:47:03,560 How we do lot splits, 1269 01:47:03,600 --> 01:47:13,280 uh, types of lot splits. Specifically, what we're talking about is your, 1270 01:47:11,199 --> 01:47:19,520 uh, your agricultural splits and your actual 1271 01:47:16,159 --> 01:47:25,600 splits. the the four to one. So you have a parent track of one, you can split it 1272 01:47:22,159 --> 01:47:31,199 off three, four total, have basic view paths and things like 1273 01:47:28,239 --> 01:47:38,400 that. Lot splits are are very very interesting 1274 01:47:34,400 --> 01:47:42,239 things. They always are going to be um some counties don't allow lot splits at 1275 01:47:40,320 --> 01:47:45,239 all and make you doladding for everything. 1276 01:47:45,520 --> 01:47:54,000 What we're talked about, 1277 01:47:50,639 --> 01:47:58,560 what we talked about is the 3 one. You have one parent that splits off into 1278 01:47:56,719 --> 01:48:04,560 splits all three and have four total tracks with a minimum. 1279 01:48:02,320 --> 01:48:10,239 That felt like a reasonable, but it's still a oneandone split like it is per 1280 01:48:08,080 --> 01:48:16,239 in your current book. It's a one and done. 1281 01:48:12,639 --> 01:48:21,600 We understand that we talked at Nauseium about 1282 01:48:17,760 --> 01:48:27,360 uh about the estate planning aspects of it. How we have mom and Paul want to 1283 01:48:24,960 --> 01:48:31,520 spill off their land and I've got five kids. Well, I can only make three tracks 1284 01:48:29,840 --> 01:48:36,719 of property. How am I going to split my land up to my kids [clears throat] 1285 01:48:34,000 --> 01:48:44,000 without, as we put it, coming in and putting a maze subdivision 1286 01:48:39,199 --> 01:48:48,239 out there on the property or replatting? Those were the things that we had to 1287 01:48:45,600 --> 01:48:52,239 talk about. And I understand that May has her comments and I'll invite her up 1288 01:48:49,920 --> 01:48:56,480 here to give you what her thoughts are because I know she has and I can feel 1289 01:48:54,239 --> 01:49:02,320 them. Oh, yes. coming from behind me here 1290 01:48:59,199 --> 01:49:07,040 because this is one thing that uh you know as a pragmatist this is also going 1291 01:49:05,679 --> 01:49:13,280 to be one thing that she's going to know more about because she sees it more 1292 01:49:08,719 --> 01:49:18,800 differently in her in her everyday uh work that I don't see as an attorney. My 1293 01:49:16,719 --> 01:49:24,159 job is to find ways around these rules or to bid these rules or deal with that 1294 01:49:21,520 --> 01:49:28,000 for a private person but when trying to enforce these it's really May's idea. 1295 01:49:26,480 --> 01:49:31,679 So, I want May to come up and talk to you a little bit more about the wind 1296 01:49:29,360 --> 01:49:36,639 splits before we go anywhere. >> All right. I got a few thoughts about 1297 01:49:34,400 --> 01:49:42,080 splits because they come up quite a bit on your own subdivision. You would be a 1298 01:49:38,400 --> 01:49:45,920 good example on that. The the one the splitting it off three times. Not a huge 1299 01:49:44,159 --> 01:49:50,719 fan of because at that point you've made a shortcut subdivision without any 1300 01:49:48,080 --> 01:49:56,239 regulations. So, I'm not a huge fan of it. And I guess I went back and forth on 1301 01:49:53,360 --> 01:50:01,520 it because one of my thoughts was if the property was over 50% act, you could 1302 01:49:59,040 --> 01:50:05,520 only split up the part that wasn't act. But then what if it sells? I mean, 1303 01:50:04,000 --> 01:50:10,400 Bruce, do you have the same rights if you buy it from Carl that Carl had? 1304 01:50:08,000 --> 01:50:16,000 » Are you This is where I get stuck on it. This is 1305 01:50:12,400 --> 01:50:20,960 where I'm completely stuck. We've been at an amate house with all of us at the 1306 01:50:18,159 --> 01:50:26,400 board meetings over this of what do we do? Do you make uncontrolled growth by 1307 01:50:23,440 --> 01:50:32,880 letting farmer Joe split it up or do you make farmer Joe now developer Joe split 1308 01:50:29,920 --> 01:50:37,360 up his land that way for his kids cuz say he wants to do he has eight acres 1309 01:50:35,520 --> 01:50:42,719 and he wants to do four splits. He's got four kids. He wants to do 20 20 20. Two 1310 01:50:40,239 --> 01:50:48,000 of the 20 don't exactly touch the roof. So instead of making a simple easement 1311 01:50:44,880 --> 01:50:53,280 access, Joe, like I said, not farmer Joe, developer Joe now is putting in a 1312 01:50:50,880 --> 01:50:56,480 road with water and electricity in the rideway at his expense to 1313 01:50:55,531 --> 01:51:00,880 [clears throat] split up the farm ground. And per our regulations, if 1314 01:50:59,199 --> 01:51:05,600 you're going to split something up and you want if you're splitting it up more 1315 01:51:03,199 --> 01:51:09,920 than once and there's land that's not going to touch a county road, you're 1316 01:51:07,920 --> 01:51:14,080 putting infrastructure. I can't bring up a planet here to tell you guys, oh, they 1317 01:51:11,679 --> 01:51:18,880 don't have road, they don't have water, it's going to get shot down. 1318 01:51:16,400 --> 01:51:22,880 » So, that's where I'm at in all of it. And I know our boards went back and 1319 01:51:20,560 --> 01:51:27,840 forth on it. And I really have just been wondering where you guys sit on it on 1320 01:51:25,440 --> 01:51:33,360 what's fair. I mean, I can see both sides of it and 1321 01:51:30,960 --> 01:51:38,400 it's hard to regulate the future. you know, sometimes 1322 01:51:36,080 --> 01:51:41,920 if you buy that 20 acres, >> then you assume that 20 acres, I have 1323 01:51:40,239 --> 01:51:48,320 the same right to do whatever because I bought that 20 acres. It goes back to my 1324 01:51:44,480 --> 01:51:52,400 land rights. Um, but as far as Yeah, I don't know the answer on that. I And I 1325 01:51:50,400 --> 01:51:56,639 get it. I don't have never really thought of it before that way. If you 1326 01:51:53,840 --> 01:52:00,639 look at the if you're divided up, I mean, three I think is really fair. 1327 01:51:59,920 --> 01:52:04,000 » It is. >> I think it's really fair, but I'm just 1328 01:52:02,159 --> 01:52:09,040 thinking about my own situation. If my kids want to build a house on a property 1329 01:52:06,080 --> 01:52:12,960 that is nice enough to accommodate, then which one do I choose? 1330 01:52:11,119 --> 01:52:17,520 » Exactly. And it's kind of like say you do that for your kids and one of your 1331 01:52:15,199 --> 01:52:21,040 kids wants to keep it out. Your other kid doesn't live in town. Says, "All 1332 01:52:19,199 --> 01:52:25,840 right, with it. I'm selling it. Let him split it up. Let's do whatever." So then 1333 01:52:23,440 --> 01:52:30,239 your kid got that piece. Then he needs to split it up three more times. So, and 1334 01:52:28,480 --> 01:52:34,159 then again, and then say your kid next door, you got three kids and the other 1335 01:52:31,920 --> 01:52:39,040 one that I don't want either. So, then you've got possibly six lots on a car 1336 01:52:37,199 --> 01:52:45,119 road and you pretty much made uncontrolled growth. So, it's 1337 01:52:41,599 --> 01:52:50,400 » there's just there's no way to do it. >> My question my question will be is uh 1338 01:52:48,000 --> 01:52:54,800 this any of this land you always say county road. So every everyone that got 1339 01:52:52,639 --> 01:52:56,639 a split has got access to the county road 1340 01:52:55,360 --> 01:53:02,080 » to a certain extent >> to a certain if not you're going to land 1341 01:52:59,119 --> 01:53:10,920 off the back instead of that would be where you would record an access 1342 01:53:04,719 --> 01:53:10,920 survey. No this time it's you 1343 01:53:11,599 --> 01:53:14,599 can 1344 01:53:17,840 --> 01:53:22,639 do that but see that would be a total subdivision. Yeah, 1345 01:53:21,040 --> 01:53:27,440 » because you're splitting too many times. >> How many times can you split 1346 01:53:24,800 --> 01:53:32,639 » once? Right now we are at over 40 acres. You can split it up once and then 10 you 1347 01:53:30,080 --> 01:53:36,719 can split it once provided it meet sanitation code and everything. Cuz I 1348 01:53:35,119 --> 01:53:40,000 get a lot of requests from people that have 10 acres don't want to get half of 1349 01:53:39,440 --> 01:53:42,719 their kids. >> Yeah, right. 1350 01:53:40,960 --> 01:53:46,880 » Cuz they're not and they want their kid next door because they know their kids 1351 01:53:44,560 --> 01:53:52,080 will wind up with the house anyway. Only thing I see I mean if I were on 40 acres 1352 01:53:50,080 --> 01:53:57,760 if someone gets landed >> well and that's where per our 1353 01:53:54,239 --> 01:54:03,040 regulations I can't where it would be instead of you providing access with the 1354 01:54:00,480 --> 01:54:07,440 survey where if we split it up more than what's allowed you were putting in a 1355 01:54:05,040 --> 01:54:12,800 full-blown road with water and electric in the right way 1356 01:54:10,239 --> 01:54:16,080 » and for what you you did all that and you destroyed your ad. 1357 01:54:14,239 --> 01:54:20,239 » That's right. cuz you might as well figure you're going to take out a 1358 01:54:17,119 --> 01:54:24,400 quarter of a mile 20 ft wide >> and our our regulations you have to have 1359 01:54:21,840 --> 01:54:27,119 a 60ft driveway for a road even for the private standard. So you're taking 1360 01:54:26,320 --> 01:54:32,719 » 60 ft too. >> Yeah. 60 ft 20 ft driving surface and 1361 01:54:30,719 --> 01:54:35,440 then the rest is on >> what would you deal with it all the 1362 01:54:34,639 --> 01:54:39,840 time? >> I don't know. Trust me, I hate telling 1363 01:54:37,360 --> 01:54:42,960 people I'm sorry I can't help you but I don't know do it. 1364 01:54:40,880 --> 01:54:46,480 » See that's something else we don't have. I don't know what's in the book or not. 1365 01:54:44,719 --> 01:54:49,520 We need stuff that before they come to you that people know what they can do. 1366 01:54:48,159 --> 01:54:53,520 » Well, and even when I tell them what they can and can't do, it still isn't 1367 01:54:52,000 --> 01:54:59,280 the fair, you know, they don't listen number one or if they want to listen, 1368 01:54:56,080 --> 01:55:04,080 they it's they get it's not a fair system for it to happen 1369 01:55:01,920 --> 01:55:08,880 cuz like I only have one kid, you have three. It would be completely different 1370 01:55:06,239 --> 01:55:12,480 for you splitting up your land versus me. 1371 01:55:10,560 --> 01:55:16,480 So, the one time split works perfect. It's hers. You have two other cases that 1372 01:55:14,960 --> 01:55:19,440 are going to be bad like Bruce said. Which one do you pick? 1373 01:55:17,599 --> 01:55:26,239 » Yeah. >> Without creating a subdivision whereas a 1374 01:55:21,920 --> 01:55:31,199 survey is a simple probably 2500 maybe. >> Is that what So 1375 01:55:28,639 --> 01:55:35,040 when you get into planning and to me and to all of that you're jumping up into 1376 01:55:33,280 --> 01:55:40,880 the 8 to 10 grand range. >> Okay. that split split a 40 1377 01:55:38,719 --> 01:55:43,520 or uh you'd have to would you have to plat it 1378 01:55:42,000 --> 01:55:46,480 » if you want to do it more than once you want to have more than one split. Yeah, 1379 01:55:46,000 --> 01:55:50,639 there's >> again what subdivision 1380 01:55:48,000 --> 01:55:58,560 » there there's a reason why some counties don't do splits because it's easier for 1381 01:55:54,960 --> 01:56:02,119 them on the whole McGill to say everybody replaces 1382 01:56:06,000 --> 01:56:16,239 that mainly dealt with access. So we have public streets uh lack of public 1383 01:56:13,760 --> 01:56:21,920 right away with or landlocked areas required easements locks meet minimum 1384 01:56:19,360 --> 01:56:29,440 requirements no more than a quarter to one lock depth. I mean we try to be as 1385 01:56:26,560 --> 01:56:32,560 fair as possible in it. The answer is I'm not going to make anybody everybody 1386 01:56:31,119 --> 01:56:36,159 happy and I'm not going to make everybody angry. There are going to be 1387 01:56:34,800 --> 01:56:42,800 some that are going to be happy, some that are going to be mad. 1388 01:56:38,719 --> 01:56:48,639 The best that we can do here is is try to figure out a ratio number that 1389 01:56:46,400 --> 01:56:55,840 protects property rights but still allows you to have some access over what 1390 01:56:51,040 --> 01:57:00,000 you want with land. I will tell you that mother county for instance has lot 1391 01:56:57,920 --> 01:57:06,159 splits but only agriculture and it's one and done one and one. That's it. You 1392 01:57:03,679 --> 01:57:11,280 take a 80 and drop it into 40s. So, but say you did that with the land 1393 01:57:08,800 --> 01:57:14,800 and then I bought a 40. What's my rights on that 40? 1394 01:57:12,400 --> 01:57:18,639 » Well, so and that's where we're going to come in and say, well, this is the one 1395 01:57:16,880 --> 01:57:23,280 and done. You bought your property. We're going to say that if you want to 1396 01:57:20,239 --> 01:57:28,719 split this again, it's going to be a unfortunate thing. I mean, it sounds 1397 01:57:25,440 --> 01:57:33,040 like that we're trying to >> trying to make everybody happy without 1398 01:57:31,199 --> 01:57:36,320 » But we're trying to detour the people that are going to abuse the system. 1399 01:57:36,000 --> 01:57:41,440 » Yes. >> And not pay for. So, is there a way you 1400 01:57:38,560 --> 01:57:44,800 put a timeline on that that that 40 becomes 1401 01:57:42,880 --> 01:57:47,760 » you split it after a certain period of time where 1402 01:57:45,760 --> 01:57:51,599 » it's a possibility that we can put it >> where if I'm a developer, I can't do it 1403 01:57:49,679 --> 01:57:56,159 this year and then next 6 months I split this year and keep splitting it. So 1404 01:57:54,000 --> 01:58:02,880 there are some counties that use it can be done no more than one time in 10 1405 01:57:59,040 --> 01:58:07,840 years or more no more than one time than 21 years because we use the rule of 1406 01:58:04,719 --> 01:58:11,520 perpetuities as our guideline. Um >> that's interesting. I've heard a lot 1407 01:58:09,119 --> 01:58:19,440 about this. But this is something that's a major part of your code 1408 01:58:14,400 --> 01:58:24,560 that May deals with regularly. And I I counted it up last week when I was 1409 01:58:22,320 --> 01:58:29,119 sitting here prepping for this meeting about how many emails back and forth 1410 01:58:26,800 --> 01:58:34,080 we've had about lot splits and how many conversations we've had about lot 1411 01:58:30,960 --> 01:58:38,080 splits. And I will tell you it's getting quite high up there. 1412 01:58:35,440 --> 01:58:41,360 » It is. Well, an example, a subdivision I get, I'm not going to say their names, 1413 01:58:39,760 --> 01:58:46,080 was the one we did for estate planning by Red Fox. 1414 01:58:43,440 --> 01:58:50,880 They wanted to do more lots to split off for all their grandkids, but they could 1415 01:58:48,239 --> 01:58:55,360 only do those four because they weren't financially prepared to put in the road 1416 01:58:53,280 --> 01:58:59,040 and the water lines and everything for that land that was probably never going 1417 01:58:56,880 --> 01:59:04,320 to get used, just split up amongst the family. But they were nowhere near 1418 01:59:01,199 --> 01:59:09,040 financially prepared to do that. And I can't take that to hearing without all 1419 01:59:06,960 --> 01:59:14,719 the infrastructure in place per our regulations. So they got stuck and we 1420 01:59:11,280 --> 01:59:19,760 split up four times and I think shaft did a couple cricket kids I think. But 1421 01:59:16,960 --> 01:59:25,679 that's what happens. But the the answer to that is the same thing I told you. We 1422 01:59:23,040 --> 01:59:30,320 have a response to it. Replay. 1423 01:59:28,000 --> 01:59:37,040 And there's going to be times when what we want to do with our land 1424 01:59:34,480 --> 01:59:43,520 is going to protect us down the line by having to pay it now because doing a lot 1425 01:59:39,760 --> 01:59:48,480 split now. That way you're going to just kick the can cuz that's what a lot is. A 1426 01:59:46,080 --> 01:59:54,480 lot split is for all intents and purposes it is kicking a replat can down 1427 01:59:51,440 --> 02:00:01,360 the road. It's somebody else's problem. I did what I was supposed to do. I've 1428 01:59:57,760 --> 02:00:07,599 only got three kids. Let's split this bad boy up into four. 1429 02:00:04,960 --> 02:00:14,080 Now my kids have their individual lives. I did what I'm supposed to. Now Johnny's 1430 02:00:10,560 --> 02:00:20,320 got three kids. So he has option A, sell. Sell the property, give cash. Cash 1431 02:00:18,639 --> 02:00:28,639 ding. Option B, I replant my property now into 1432 02:00:24,880 --> 02:00:28,639 beach property for my kids. 1433 02:00:29,760 --> 02:00:37,199 This is the the common what you see in front of you is our compromise. 1434 02:00:35,040 --> 02:00:41,679 » It it truly is our compromise. Once again, 1435 02:00:38,800 --> 02:00:45,760 it is not going to make everybody happy. May not make everybody mad. Bruce only 1436 02:00:44,159 --> 02:00:52,679 has three kids, so he I mean, >> yeah, that's what I think. The 1437 02:00:47,679 --> 02:00:52,679 administrative split is that 1438 02:00:53,199 --> 02:01:01,280 » I mean, explain that. That's >> which is the administrative split. 1439 02:00:58,320 --> 02:01:06,239 » Administrative splits are done specifically uh without flag. It's 1440 02:01:04,320 --> 02:01:12,159 taking an 80 and dropping it into a four. You what you would do is it's a 1441 02:01:09,599 --> 02:01:19,679 straight meets and bounds split that you have general authority to do. We do them 1442 02:01:15,040 --> 02:01:25,920 on on well so pasture A doesn't have a center pivot. 1443 02:01:22,560 --> 02:01:31,360 Pasture B does uh I don't want them both to be taxed at pasture B's center pivot 1444 02:01:29,360 --> 02:01:37,440 improvement. I do an administrative split split pure A pasture B together so 1445 02:01:34,639 --> 02:01:44,639 I don't have to stay talking the same way a lot of times those they happen 1446 02:01:40,000 --> 02:01:49,199 without they get recorded and done even >> they're done done take it up the 1447 02:01:46,719 --> 02:01:54,719 register files and we're done. What do you think about time? 1448 02:01:52,320 --> 02:01:57,520 » It would be okay. But then again, are we going to track it through register of 1449 02:01:56,159 --> 02:02:02,880 dates? Are we going to track it through GIS? What is going to be the 1450 02:02:00,719 --> 02:02:06,800 coming back to who's going to I I can babysit it, but it's not really my 1451 02:02:04,560 --> 02:02:10,320 full-time job. So, I mean, I was thinking I just want 1452 02:02:09,040 --> 02:02:13,920 to know what you guys thought about all this. I like he said, we spend a lot of 1453 02:02:13,280 --> 02:02:19,199 time. >> Yeah. I mean, I'm not worried about 1454 02:02:17,040 --> 02:02:21,840 worrying about the whatifs on this one, >> you know, because we're talking about 1455 02:02:20,400 --> 02:02:24,560 somebody trying to manipulate the system. 1456 02:02:23,944 --> 02:02:27,920 [clears throat] >> You got to have a little bit of 1457 02:02:26,080 --> 02:02:31,199 integrity and believe people are doing it for the right thing. If it's 1458 02:02:29,760 --> 02:02:34,719 somebody's doing that, you're going to know because it won't be just once. 1459 02:02:32,800 --> 02:02:39,199 It'll be probably several properties and then we have to address it. 1460 02:02:37,280 --> 02:02:42,480 » You know, I don't know exactly when it was split. I don't know. Sometimes when 1461 02:02:40,880 --> 02:02:47,760 they come to me and I look at it on the map, I don't know if it was done legally 1462 02:02:44,159 --> 02:02:51,760 or legally, but it's kind of hard to deny a building permit for a nice 1463 02:02:50,000 --> 02:02:56,960 structure that's going to be built just because they might not have split it up 1464 02:02:54,080 --> 02:03:01,440 there. It puts me in a spot. >> Sure. 1465 02:02:59,360 --> 02:03:04,320 » Cuz we want the tax value, but we want to play by these rules, too. 1466 02:03:03,920 --> 02:03:09,840 » Yeah. >> And we were doing one of three. Is that 1467 02:03:07,360 --> 02:03:12,159 what we were? That's where what our final version. Didn't we wind up with 1468 02:03:11,280 --> 02:03:17,199 one and done? >> So one one split you're done. But you 1469 02:03:15,040 --> 02:03:23,520 can take one parent and split it up into four separate tracks. So three sub 1470 02:03:20,560 --> 02:03:27,520 subtracts into one. So it's a four to one. 1471 02:03:25,599 --> 02:03:31,760 » So we end up with four. >> Yeah. You take a 40 and drop it into two 1472 02:03:30,320 --> 02:03:37,280 or four 10. >> I think that's 1473 02:03:33,760 --> 02:03:43,679 that's 10. We could our old regulations back I 1474 02:03:40,800 --> 02:03:49,679 started with years ago what was it 10 g 10 all day long you 1475 02:03:47,599 --> 02:03:55,880 could split 10 all day >> the minimum lot area for a new is a 10 1476 02:03:52,159 --> 02:03:55,880 » 10 that's what I thought 1477 02:03:56,080 --> 02:04:00,040 » you can't go two two two 1478 02:04:00,480 --> 02:04:09,520 stops if he does that if Josh does that 10 stops 1479 02:04:06,719 --> 02:04:12,400 um Bob for buying it and then making his splits out 1480 02:04:10,320 --> 02:04:15,280 » because he can't split it if it's under that 10. 1481 02:04:13,199 --> 02:04:18,520 » But you're starting with 10. So that doesn't really 1482 02:04:18,639 --> 02:04:26,800 people get technical to it, right? 1483 02:04:23,840 --> 02:04:30,280 » Yeah, it is a 10. Technically, it's a 10 to start with. 1484 02:04:30,320 --> 02:04:39,440 » It says right there, minimum line area. And I put this in specifically for you 1485 02:04:35,360 --> 02:04:43,280 of the new lot is 10 acres. >> That's how I put that in there just for 1486 02:04:41,440 --> 02:04:48,360 you. >> I see one page 46. 1487 02:04:48,719 --> 02:04:57,440 I mean I think I know some people argue about 41's pretty fair. 1488 02:04:53,440 --> 02:05:02,480 » It's all the way at the bottom there. enforce whatever we go with. But I just 1489 02:04:59,760 --> 02:05:06,239 said just to me it can create that control growth which goes back to what's 1490 02:05:04,159 --> 02:05:09,840 important to subdivision regulation. If we're going to let you split it and 1491 02:05:07,440 --> 02:05:14,159 build whatever you want, >> did you do the short 1492 02:05:12,400 --> 02:05:17,840 plan is four lots or less off of a county road. Yes. 1493 02:05:16,560 --> 02:05:20,480 » And that's basically what we're creating. 1494 02:05:18,560 --> 02:05:25,280 » Just repeat what you just said. >> A short plan is four lots or less off of 1495 02:05:22,719 --> 02:05:27,920 a county road. And what you do, like I said, 1496 02:05:26,480 --> 02:05:32,960 traditionally, if you want to do four lots, you can do it along the county 1497 02:05:31,040 --> 02:05:36,520 road. You want to do five lots, you're putting in a road. 1498 02:05:36,800 --> 02:05:40,560 » Okay. >> I'm thinking of one that we got right 1499 02:05:40,320 --> 02:05:44,400 now. >> Well, and they're putting in a road for 1500 02:05:42,000 --> 02:05:49,040 the remaining lots. So, that makes it qualified as OPW. 1501 02:05:46,480 --> 02:05:53,840 » Yes. Before I forget it, you go. >> That's downstairs. 1502 02:05:51,360 --> 02:05:57,920 Thanks. Am I good? You're good. All right. 1503 02:05:55,360 --> 02:06:00,920 Okay. Any other questions about article seven? 1504 02:06:03,360 --> 02:06:14,080 » I I don't think so. >> Okay. Article 8, wind energy conversion 1505 02:06:09,840 --> 02:06:16,159 system. Do you mind if we take a 5? I'll 1506 02:06:14,239 --> 02:06:21,639 » make a motion to take a five minute recess. 1507 02:06:18,400 --> 02:06:21,639 A second. 1508 02:12:08,880 --> 02:12:12,119 Just go. 1509 02:12:18,880 --> 02:12:25,639 I know these places. >> Did you say use 1510 02:12:27,920 --> 02:12:33,811 mainly the county could round about way? [laughter] 1511 02:12:34,000 --> 02:12:39,440 » All right. So, do [clears throat] we call meeting back to order? Sorry about 1512 02:12:37,840 --> 02:12:44,639 that. We just finished seven, correct? 1513 02:12:42,480 --> 02:12:49,760 » Yep. We are beginning on article 8. Article 8 is the wind energy conversion 1514 02:12:47,199 --> 02:12:53,119 systems. >> So, we have to have this article in 1515 02:12:51,760 --> 02:12:59,119 there because we already have wind energy conversion systems. Regardless of 1516 02:12:56,320 --> 02:13:02,880 whether or not we allow or disallow, we have to have some regulations for 1517 02:13:01,040 --> 02:13:06,199 something that we already have in the county. Regardless, 1518 02:13:06,400 --> 02:13:13,360 » so we're going to go through this. Uh, I'm going to try to keep it out. The 1519 02:13:11,599 --> 02:13:18,520 bigger parts that you're going to want to know are on starting on page 50. 1520 02:13:19,199 --> 02:13:26,719 These are our our development plan standards. 1521 02:13:24,400 --> 02:13:30,400 Going down to the bottom of the page, we've literally outlined what our 1522 02:13:28,560 --> 02:13:37,199 development plans are at the bottom of page 50. Going down to the title, how 1523 02:13:33,520 --> 02:13:43,520 this application is supposed to look. uh location of any operation facilities. 1524 02:13:41,040 --> 02:13:46,560 The big part here that everybody would want to know about is the reclamation 1525 02:13:45,119 --> 02:13:51,599 plan. What are we going to do when this is over? 1526 02:13:49,082 --> 02:13:56,960 [clears throat] Project descriptions. We outline. We try to be as precise in this 1527 02:13:54,400 --> 02:14:02,400 particular one as possible because it's the one thing that we 1528 02:14:00,639 --> 02:14:08,000 believed given the current climate that would be 1529 02:14:05,440 --> 02:14:11,840 most have opposition petitions to. And so we wanted to make sure that all the 1530 02:14:10,000 --> 02:14:17,199 information that we could possibly give as well as engineers and things like 1531 02:14:14,400 --> 02:14:22,079 that can look at this and give us a good idea of what is going to be good and 1532 02:14:19,599 --> 02:14:25,679 what's going to be bad. the site plans going down. 1533 02:14:23,920 --> 02:14:29,760 Specifically, we want to talk about nuisance issues. 1534 02:14:27,360 --> 02:14:38,079 And this starts on the bottom of page 52, but really is enumerated on page 53. 1535 02:14:36,079 --> 02:14:43,040 And so, we want to talk about things like off-site infrastructure. 1536 02:14:40,800 --> 02:14:46,719 Do you need an office in town to maintain this? Is there going to be a 1537 02:14:44,880 --> 02:14:51,040 place where you're going to have maintenance vehicles? 1538 02:14:48,800 --> 02:14:55,520 overview of the existing environment. Is this up in by Headler where we got a 1539 02:14:53,040 --> 02:14:59,040 bunch of burr, less of a little bit more harsher environment? Not necessarily. 1540 02:14:57,599 --> 02:15:04,079 Some of it's going to be farm, some of it's not going to be farm. We're going 1541 02:15:00,480 --> 02:15:09,840 to have or is this going to be where what are we doing with this noise? 1542 02:15:07,199 --> 02:15:16,639 This comes down to your take that you're using. How many decb are they going to 1543 02:15:11,840 --> 02:15:21,440 be running? Cuz unlike most things, it's supposed to be going 1544 02:15:19,679 --> 02:15:26,639 24/7. So the noise is going to be constant. So 1545 02:15:23,440 --> 02:15:30,239 we want to know what is your rated level of decibel level for this turbine. 1546 02:15:28,800 --> 02:15:36,880 Things like that. We want to know about groundwater, surface water is if you're 1547 02:15:34,159 --> 02:15:40,639 going to put this tower here and you're going to put enough footings in and 1548 02:15:38,960 --> 02:15:46,000 wires and everything else. Is it going to upset our groundwater table, surface 1549 02:15:43,440 --> 02:15:51,360 water? What is it going to do to the probably the most important resource 1550 02:15:47,679 --> 02:15:56,079 that we have here in Crawford County? We want to know about ISO, fire hazards, 1551 02:15:53,760 --> 02:15:59,920 communications, everything that we can think about. And then we go into this 1552 02:15:58,000 --> 02:16:06,000 decommissioning and reclamation plans, what you can do, 1553 02:16:03,679 --> 02:16:11,360 what do the things that affect the cities and the counties, roadviews, 1554 02:16:08,400 --> 02:16:16,960 bridge plans. And we put in things here specifically that says if you're going 1555 02:16:13,280 --> 02:16:24,800 to have this, we have a bond. We have other things that we can use 1556 02:16:20,800 --> 02:16:30,560 as a financial incentive on people to comply with us. 1557 02:16:28,079 --> 02:16:36,240 We have performance standards. Now these are not just things but every one of 1558 02:16:34,559 --> 02:16:41,679 these projects is going to be done by conditional use. 1559 02:16:38,639 --> 02:16:48,000 This first statement on page 54 talks about our inherent 1560 02:16:45,840 --> 02:16:53,599 authority to control what's going on in Crawford County and us to give rules and 1561 02:16:52,000 --> 02:16:59,760 different things that we want to talk about offside infrastructure 1562 02:16:56,479 --> 02:17:04,160 extensions. What we're going to do, how we're going to deal with all these 1563 02:17:01,599 --> 02:17:10,760 different things that come up with these wind energy things. If you get to page 1564 02:17:07,760 --> 02:17:10,760 57, 1565 02:17:12,080 --> 02:17:18,960 this is their decommissioning and reclamation of the main towers. How we 1566 02:17:16,800 --> 02:17:23,840 want to see it. We say if you're not producing 20% of the average amount of 1567 02:17:21,439 --> 02:17:30,474 electricity produced by such turbines. So if you're not doing at least 20% of 1568 02:17:26,399 --> 02:17:32,559 your original, that bad boy is done. [cough] 1569 02:17:31,280 --> 02:17:37,439 Get out of here. You're either going to fix it, you're going to do it. You're 1570 02:17:34,479 --> 02:17:43,679 going to leave ground z. It has to at least be five feet down. Means that a 1571 02:17:41,200 --> 02:17:48,800 standard plow, standard drag nail is not going to hit. If you're dragging down 1572 02:17:46,240 --> 02:17:55,200 beyond 5 ft, we're going to have some conversations anyway. We want to know 1573 02:17:51,760 --> 02:17:59,679 where subsurface measurements and ground issues are there. And we want to put it 1574 02:17:56,880 --> 02:18:04,800 on our GIS. We want to show everybody what all this stuff is. 1575 02:18:02,080 --> 02:18:10,960 Additional conditions talk about our setbacks. 1576 02:18:07,040 --> 02:18:16,240 Height of it shall not exceed 600 ft. 50 ft from the edge of the rice layer 1577 02:18:13,679 --> 02:18:25,120 rose plus. So I mean is that's 600 ft plus an 1578 02:18:20,240 --> 02:18:28,800 additional 50 ft. So 650 ft away from any public road. 1579 02:18:27,120 --> 02:18:33,519 » Can I just stop you? How come you didn't talk about decommission? Well, we did go 1580 02:18:31,439 --> 02:18:40,319 over I just glanced over. >> Okay. Uh my problem that I see one that 1581 02:18:37,599 --> 02:18:46,080 we had experience with was they was going to use a they said 1582 02:18:43,359 --> 02:18:51,280 the security bond but never it's hit. How come here? Here here we got cash 1583 02:18:48,479 --> 02:18:54,719 currency. Uh how come we don't use cash currency? Because if you know that 1584 02:18:53,040 --> 02:18:58,639 yourself these things are going to change. They're going to change hands. 1585 02:18:57,599 --> 02:19:02,160 So >> security bond is a 1586 02:19:00,319 --> 02:19:06,399 » security bond is not really worth the paper it's written on. That's 1587 02:19:04,240 --> 02:19:10,719 » change. No. Okay. I've been down that road a little bit. 1588 02:19:07,679 --> 02:19:14,800 » We talk about letters of credit. >> Letters of credit aren't worth what 1589 02:19:12,399 --> 02:19:21,280 they're written on. Security bonds are insured FDIC approved 1590 02:19:18,319 --> 02:19:24,639 » back. This here is about 35 40 years ago. No 1591 02:19:22,559 --> 02:19:29,760 » that about the experience I had. you know, but I can't say why can't they use 1592 02:19:27,760 --> 02:19:34,559 a cash bond? >> So, a cash bond, a shy cash bond is the 1593 02:19:32,880 --> 02:19:38,559 same thing. They're still backed. You're prepaying something. The difference is 1594 02:19:36,559 --> 02:19:45,280 one is an insurance policy and one is not. That's why the FDIC comes into 1595 02:19:42,960 --> 02:19:50,880 bonds themselves. We do not allow letters of credit 1596 02:19:47,679 --> 02:19:58,479 because they change. That shy bond does not change from owner to owner. they 1597 02:19:54,000 --> 02:20:03,520 have to post that bond at that project and that bond will stay there until the 1598 02:20:00,479 --> 02:20:08,960 end of that project. Letters of credit can change from time to time to time and 1599 02:20:07,359 --> 02:20:13,920 it's only as good as the credit of the person that you're writing for. That is 1600 02:20:10,960 --> 02:20:19,680 where we said as fiduciaries of the county and of the county trust 1601 02:20:17,040 --> 02:20:25,439 that we could not depend on somebody's credit rating solely as a basis for 1602 02:20:22,560 --> 02:20:28,439 these decommissioning. Good. 1603 02:20:29,920 --> 02:20:36,640 Okay. We had additional monitoring and review 1604 02:20:34,319 --> 02:20:43,920 requirements that we added into this. Um but going back down into the setbacks 1605 02:20:40,000 --> 02:20:48,160 um height of it distance equal to twice the wave energy height from a 1606 02:20:46,080 --> 02:20:54,479 residential structure twice. 1607 02:20:51,120 --> 02:21:00,720 we put in a 1.1 multiplier uh from any property line 1608 02:20:58,800 --> 02:21:05,200 at least another 300 feet from any property tower because and this was a 1609 02:21:03,040 --> 02:21:11,760 contention that we were asked about and and here's how I propose it is if a 1610 02:21:08,960 --> 02:21:17,040 tower falls and hits another tower I don't care 1611 02:21:14,800 --> 02:21:23,439 that's their problem a tower falls and goes over a public 1612 02:21:19,920 --> 02:21:26,960 ride way or a tower falls and goes on somebody's house, I definitely care 1613 02:21:25,200 --> 02:21:31,600 about that. If you're going to put it so close that 1614 02:21:29,120 --> 02:21:37,439 if that malfunctions and damages your property, that's on you. What we're 1615 02:21:34,960 --> 02:21:41,240 concerned about is our public center and public property trust 1616 02:21:42,880 --> 02:21:50,240 only in public runways. So, you can't just keep on dating for no 1617 02:21:47,840 --> 02:21:56,439 apparent reason. maintain limited liability as well as 1618 02:21:53,040 --> 02:21:56,439 their own. 1619 02:21:57,680 --> 02:22:06,240 These are the things that we thought were necessary to be in here as the bare 1620 02:22:03,840 --> 02:22:11,040 minimum. Conditional use permits can always have 1621 02:22:08,399 --> 02:22:17,600 more if there is reason to give more for public safety, health and welfare. 1622 02:22:14,880 --> 02:22:24,880 We have next domestic land owners. We change domestic when domestic is based 1623 02:22:21,200 --> 02:22:31,680 upon how much power it puts off. What type of power it puts off. 1624 02:22:27,600 --> 02:22:36,560 120 kow is the uh maximum. High towers are different. But that's what we do is 1625 02:22:34,560 --> 02:22:40,680 we base it off of how much kilowattage it has and how big it is. 1626 02:22:50,560 --> 02:22:55,880 I thought there was something in here about third party engineers. 1627 02:23:12,720 --> 02:23:16,359 There was a proposed 1628 02:23:17,040 --> 02:23:20,040 review. 1629 02:23:20,720 --> 02:23:28,399 » We require the adequacy of each application to be approved by an 1630 02:23:25,520 --> 02:23:33,760 engineer which is provided or the cost of which is provided by 1631 02:23:30,399 --> 02:23:39,680 behalf of Kent. But we choose who we're going to use as our own engineer. 1632 02:23:36,720 --> 02:23:45,680 These are our basic rules that I have proposed. We had 1633 02:23:41,920 --> 02:23:50,319 multiple changes to these rule rules. Uh commissioner specifically I remember 1634 02:23:47,600 --> 02:23:54,160 Michael came in with a large list of things that we wanted to consider and 1635 02:23:52,000 --> 02:23:58,960 that we went through and talked about. Uh we had individual thoughts. We heard 1636 02:23:56,800 --> 02:24:04,720 public comments about this. We had obviously public hearings about these. 1637 02:24:01,840 --> 02:24:10,000 We had as much as that information that we possibly could. This conversation was 1638 02:24:06,960 --> 02:24:15,359 even put into the public survey. We had as much thought into this one as we 1639 02:24:12,000 --> 02:24:21,520 could. This is what we came up with as a conglomeration of what we felt were the 1640 02:24:17,439 --> 02:24:27,640 needs of the sit and of the county's interest at all. 1641 02:24:24,640 --> 02:24:27,640 questions. 1642 02:24:31,600 --> 02:24:40,800 Any questions? Nope. Question. Come on. After after hearing 1643 02:24:38,960 --> 02:24:47,359 this, it made me think on the reformation part of it. We need to add 1644 02:24:43,840 --> 02:24:54,880 in there that they are responsible for hiring an inspector of our choice and 1645 02:24:50,880 --> 02:25:01,439 pay for it to monitor that because like Carl's been talking about how how do we 1646 02:24:58,000 --> 02:25:09,080 uh enforce it? Well, that'll be a way to we have to hire us an inspector to 1647 02:25:04,160 --> 02:25:09,080 inspect that project on recation. 1648 02:25:10,080 --> 02:25:17,319 We have it on the on the the application but we don't have a lot of reformation 1649 02:25:21,280 --> 02:25:32,520 also we can put it in 13 about the commission when I won't know when it's 1650 02:25:28,800 --> 02:25:32,520 not producing 20%. 1651 02:25:39,120 --> 02:25:47,359 Okay. And Josh will come back to this, but I'm I 100% agree that we need to 1652 02:25:44,399 --> 02:25:49,680 have language that addresses the current project we have. 1653 02:25:49,120 --> 02:25:54,319 » Correct. >> And that's I 1654 02:25:52,240 --> 02:25:59,920 I appreciate that. I'm sure this will come up here a little bit later. 1655 02:25:56,720 --> 02:26:03,840 The idea now going off our previous statements, we have the current 1656 02:26:01,280 --> 02:26:11,319 moratorum and we've had conversations related to the comprehensive plan about 1657 02:26:05,760 --> 02:26:11,319 the outright allowance of new projects. 1658 02:26:11,760 --> 02:26:22,960 That is a motion and a suggestion that needs to be brought back for uh to be 1659 02:26:20,240 --> 02:26:27,120 admitted into this particular if that's the area or the way that wants to 1660 02:26:25,040 --> 02:26:32,240 happen. is what we would add is a separate 1661 02:26:29,040 --> 02:26:38,960 article at the very beginning or not an article but a separate section 1662 02:26:34,960 --> 02:26:41,960 to change the intent and scope of this completely 1663 02:26:42,080 --> 02:26:47,640 very onset 1664 02:26:48,479 --> 02:26:58,240 and add an additional section is no future projects. 1665 02:26:55,520 --> 02:27:05,280 and that we limit that these regulations only apply to the current 1666 02:27:02,960 --> 02:27:08,800 uh wind and energy systems that already exist 1667 02:27:06,800 --> 02:27:14,479 in Crawford County at the time of the adoption regulations. 1668 02:27:12,000 --> 02:27:17,760 » But that is a recommendation that has to come back from the public. 1669 02:27:15,920 --> 02:27:21,359 » Well, so to be fair with that, I think we have to get to the article that 1670 02:27:19,520 --> 02:27:26,720 addresses zoning. Yeah, >> I think that's the 1671 02:27:24,399 --> 02:27:31,680 » the piece that all the rest of these will fall in after. 1672 02:27:28,240 --> 02:27:38,200 » And and I will say that a lot of this goes one way or the other based upon 1673 02:27:34,000 --> 02:27:38,200 full meets and bounds. I mean, 1674 02:27:38,319 --> 02:27:45,240 I'll get to that when we get to that. >> That's fine. I'm just like I said, we'll 1675 02:27:41,680 --> 02:27:45,240 be back to this one. 1676 02:27:48,880 --> 02:27:57,120 solar energy collection systems. Um, a lot of these are going to mirror 1677 02:27:54,880 --> 02:28:02,800 that of what you have except for the setbacks. 1678 02:27:59,120 --> 02:28:10,080 Setbacks were presented and talked about specifically 1679 02:28:06,880 --> 02:28:14,240 and a lot of conversation and this one also came with Mr. Boy's 1680 02:28:12,240 --> 02:28:21,680 recommendations. He did extensive research to to bring in 1681 02:28:18,720 --> 02:28:28,960 his ideas and we presented them in these work sessions to really give a full idea 1682 02:28:25,760 --> 02:28:36,720 of what the neighborhoods or what the idea of other Kansas counties really 1683 02:28:34,080 --> 02:28:39,720 would be expecting. So if you go to page 70, 1684 02:28:42,960 --> 02:28:54,080 the setbacks for this are rather maximum and like we said with article 8, this 1685 02:28:51,040 --> 02:28:58,080 can be changed and amended with your recommendations, but how you recommend 1686 02:28:55,760 --> 02:29:04,560 it. But the setbacks for the height ray should be no more than 35 ft. Boundary 1687 02:29:01,280 --> 02:29:09,160 setbacks. All projects shall be set back 300 ft from the boundary. 1688 02:29:09,760 --> 02:29:15,280 Fencing 6T minimum secure perimeter fencing with appropriate screening. 1689 02:29:13,840 --> 02:29:20,880 Screening shall be required to protect from player noise, lighting, signal 1690 02:29:18,080 --> 02:29:27,680 and these are minimums size of project no less than 25 hours. 1691 02:29:24,960 --> 02:29:34,080 These are your basic setbacks. And that setback boundary setback is 1692 02:29:30,399 --> 02:29:40,479 your biggest setback because it is well take green bush for instance. 1693 02:29:37,280 --> 02:29:47,000 Uh I went and measured it about 3 months ago right at about 25 ft from the 1694 02:29:43,040 --> 02:29:47,000 boundary line just 1695 02:29:47,439 --> 02:29:58,720 um and that's generally going to be your minimum setback is at 25. 1696 02:29:53,840 --> 02:30:05,840 The maximum that I saw was 300 feet. That is the maximum setback that I saw. 1697 02:30:02,160 --> 02:30:11,120 Um, and obviously there's a wide range in there. 1698 02:30:09,040 --> 02:30:17,200 And it's up to you guys to send back information on how you want to deal with 1699 02:30:13,040 --> 02:30:20,399 this, but whether or not uh how you want to handle these projects and whether or 1700 02:30:19,040 --> 02:30:24,240 not there's something in the middle you want to consider or along those lines. 1701 02:30:22,399 --> 02:30:30,080 What I'm telling you what's in here is the proposed was the maximum of what 1702 02:30:27,040 --> 02:30:34,399 we've seen throughout the state. >> Okay. 1703 02:30:31,200 --> 02:30:39,439 » Questions, comments about article 9. >> Um, 1704 02:30:36,399 --> 02:30:44,319 in article 9, you know, going back to the protect public health, safety, 1705 02:30:41,359 --> 02:30:48,160 welfare, is there a list of associations that are involved 1706 02:30:46,399 --> 02:30:54,399 in that or what's that look like? I mean, uh, protect public health, safety, 1707 02:30:51,280 --> 02:30:58,080 welfare. on page 61. Okay. >> I mean that's the overall theme of this 1708 02:30:56,880 --> 02:31:01,120 whole document. But >> yeah, 1709 02:30:58,640 --> 02:31:06,640 » who's involved in that? You know, KH, EPA, who who typically gets involved in 1710 02:31:03,600 --> 02:31:08,479 things like this and gives approval >> beyond us. 1711 02:31:07,600 --> 02:31:10,560 » It's you guys. >> It's us. Okay. 1712 02:31:10,000 --> 02:31:13,840 » The >> is there something we can stipulate that 1713 02:31:12,240 --> 02:31:18,560 we have approval from those organizations? 1714 02:31:15,200 --> 02:31:24,960 » Well, so KDH doesn't necessarily approve projects. 1715 02:31:20,560 --> 02:31:28,399 um they approve and look at causes and nuisances that are surrounded around 1716 02:31:26,960 --> 02:31:33,520 them. Okay. >> There's other organizations that you 1717 02:31:31,280 --> 02:31:38,000 look at and when you do a review process, I told May that we ever had 1718 02:31:35,760 --> 02:31:41,760 this, the first time she got one of these applications, I would come down 1719 02:31:39,600 --> 02:31:48,439 with her and we would go over it together and we would talk about what to 1720 02:31:44,560 --> 02:31:48,439 mean and how this means. 1721 02:31:48,479 --> 02:31:55,520 Kansas Water Office. There are a lot of different entities that have their 1722 02:31:52,960 --> 02:31:58,960 fingers into this pie whether or not the Southern Power Pool is going to be 1723 02:31:56,960 --> 02:32:04,720 coming into this, the Kansas Corporation Commission. So, they're actually your 1724 02:32:00,640 --> 02:32:10,319 main governing body here because on a scale of this, it's a utility scale. If 1725 02:32:08,399 --> 02:32:15,560 it's producing energy at that utility scale, it becomes the purview of the 1726 02:32:12,000 --> 02:32:15,560 corporation commission. 1727 02:32:15,760 --> 02:32:22,720 They're going to have certain approvals and things like that to hook into 1728 02:32:19,920 --> 02:32:26,319 transmission lines um to connect to the southern power pool to do those types of 1729 02:32:25,120 --> 02:32:32,880 things, but they're going to be your main regulatory body one way or another. 1730 02:32:29,920 --> 02:32:35,120 » They will come in before us. Correct. They need that approval before they come 1731 02:32:34,640 --> 02:32:39,520 to the >> Well, they need to at least provide some 1732 02:32:37,359 --> 02:32:43,200 of those plans to ACC before they do it because if you don't have a transmission 1733 02:32:40,880 --> 02:32:45,280 line, you're kind of stuck. how you're going to come to a substation, 1734 02:32:44,640 --> 02:32:49,120 » right? >> They're going to get in there with AMG 1735 02:32:46,880 --> 02:32:54,399 and other places, uh, whoever owns the substation at that point in time to be 1736 02:32:51,359 --> 02:32:59,040 able to really get into those things. Before one of these would be granted, 1737 02:32:57,040 --> 02:33:03,720 even at the application stage, there's going to be so many moving parts 1738 02:33:04,479 --> 02:33:12,560 and dominoes that have to be stacked up before one of these even gets close to 1739 02:33:10,080 --> 02:33:17,920 getting to a PNZ year. Okay. 1740 02:33:14,640 --> 02:33:22,160 » And frankly, you'll know about a project before it even comes to your guys's desk 1741 02:33:20,560 --> 02:33:26,800 because there will be so many parts about it that you will have to deal with 1742 02:33:24,560 --> 02:33:31,120 on an individual regulatory and how you guys handle things specifically or 1743 02:33:29,120 --> 02:33:35,280 roaded bridge is consulted because we need to know which bridges are going to 1744 02:33:33,120 --> 02:33:40,479 be there. Do they have weight limits? What are the weight limits? Are there 1745 02:33:37,520 --> 02:33:45,040 real water connections? fire and maintenance, 1746 02:33:42,720 --> 02:33:49,680 health, ambulance, all the small little parts that you guys are already going to 1747 02:33:46,640 --> 02:33:55,040 control have to have individual parts into this before it even comes to your 1748 02:33:52,479 --> 02:34:00,560 desk or on the PNC. And so that's where you're going to get 1749 02:33:57,359 --> 02:34:06,160 into this is there's so many moving parts here that one of these projects is 1750 02:34:04,399 --> 02:34:11,040 going to be is going to be infallible or not 1751 02:34:08,240 --> 02:34:17,840 infallible. That's wrong. It would be to the point where it' be noticeable from 1752 02:34:14,160 --> 02:34:24,399 any point of view and you'd have to really look at because 1753 02:34:21,359 --> 02:34:30,280 these projects are huge but they consist of so many moving parts that you just 1754 02:34:27,280 --> 02:34:30,280 can't 1755 02:34:30,319 --> 02:34:37,920 and I guess to add a little bit um back [clears throat] to 61 1756 02:34:36,319 --> 02:34:41,280 or which is a little bit different way of saying it but 1757 02:34:39,439 --> 02:34:43,359 preserve the community aesthetics and property values. 1758 02:34:42,640 --> 02:34:49,920 » Y >> kind of dictates where could potentially 1759 02:34:47,359 --> 02:34:51,600 fit and where it absolutely doesn't fit. >> So the 1760 02:34:50,560 --> 02:34:54,960 » I like that in there. >> Preserving the community aesthetics and 1761 02:34:53,280 --> 02:34:58,560 property values. Put that in there specifically because you don't want to 1762 02:34:56,720 --> 02:35:04,560 put a solar field right next to a residential 1763 02:35:00,720 --> 02:35:08,399 um a residential neighborhood. Those 1764 02:35:06,080 --> 02:35:12,399 panels move up and down, up and down. You're catching the sun. At a certain 1765 02:35:10,080 --> 02:35:16,800 point of day, they're going to be facing that neighborhood 1766 02:35:15,280 --> 02:35:20,319 at a certain point of day. And so, unless we're going to regulate how far 1767 02:35:18,319 --> 02:35:24,479 they're going to tilt to catch this or something, 1768 02:35:22,720 --> 02:35:29,680 preserving the community and the aesthetic, 1769 02:35:26,800 --> 02:35:33,760 I'm not going to put a solar field right in the middle of a subdivision. I'm not 1770 02:35:31,760 --> 02:35:39,359 going to do it because it doesn't make sense. And preserving the aesthetic will 1771 02:35:36,560 --> 02:35:44,880 also deal with that general welfare portion of this because if you're 1772 02:35:42,640 --> 02:35:51,800 constantly being bombarded with nuisance issues because of it, 1773 02:35:47,680 --> 02:35:51,800 we're going to have problems regardless. 1774 02:35:52,240 --> 02:35:59,920 So can I ask you going back to the statements I made earlier just like the 1775 02:35:57,120 --> 02:36:04,880 one you just made now how can you do that and further we was 1776 02:36:02,479 --> 02:36:10,479 talking I don't know which one uh about conditions or put it in there 1777 02:36:08,319 --> 02:36:17,439 that you can't do that but you know you just got to be saying that you can't put 1778 02:36:13,040 --> 02:36:22,399 it in a a like a residential area. So what's the difference between this 1779 02:36:20,640 --> 02:36:26,880 versus what I was complaining about earlier to you? You can't do that. You 1780 02:36:24,479 --> 02:36:30,960 can't do that. I was looking for teeth, but here we got teeth that we can we can 1781 02:36:29,520 --> 02:36:34,800 tell them they can't put it in a residential 1782 02:36:31,680 --> 02:36:40,399 » because a municipal waste system is a completely different type of public 1783 02:36:36,640 --> 02:36:44,000 service than an optional solar uh field. 1784 02:36:41,920 --> 02:36:51,920 So municipal waste the way that it's written is something that is required 1785 02:36:47,680 --> 02:36:57,760 and the state can jump in and say you have to have this waste system. 1786 02:36:55,359 --> 02:37:03,120 This is an optional system and when it is optional we have more abilities 1787 02:37:01,280 --> 02:37:07,560 municipal waste cuz we were talking specifically about municipal waste. 1788 02:37:08,240 --> 02:37:14,640 Landfills and waste are two different things. 1789 02:37:12,240 --> 02:37:19,920 And when I talk about municipal waste systems specifically, 1790 02:37:17,280 --> 02:37:26,240 99% of all waste systems are actually mandated by growth and by 1791 02:37:21,934 --> 02:37:31,040 [clears throat] the state. Um I when was the last time you guys had to deal with 1792 02:37:28,080 --> 02:37:37,800 a uh underserved wetland system or add a new cell to a 1793 02:37:34,240 --> 02:37:37,800 water district? 1794 02:37:40,479 --> 02:37:49,760 One of my cities right now I'm dealing with $4.5 million water project because 1795 02:37:47,359 --> 02:37:55,720 every pipe in that entire town was pre902 and is lined with lead and 1796 02:37:52,720 --> 02:37:55,720 asbestous. 1797 02:37:56,000 --> 02:38:06,080 So we are replacing every single pipe in the town. But along with that, because 1798 02:38:02,479 --> 02:38:13,439 we now have a new sewer system, our wetland cells are no longer 1799 02:38:10,640 --> 02:38:19,200 adequate. And so when we are doing this $4.5 1800 02:38:16,479 --> 02:38:25,479 million project for a town that has a tax base of $523 1801 02:38:22,479 --> 02:38:25,479 people. 1802 02:38:25,840 --> 02:38:34,240 We are now asked to do another $718,000 wetland cell project mandated by the 1803 02:38:32,880 --> 02:38:41,040 Kansas Department of Health and Environment. And we'll find the town 1804 02:38:37,359 --> 02:38:44,920 $10,000 per day that we are out of compliance 1805 02:38:45,520 --> 02:38:51,000 because you can only charge $10,000 per fine. 1806 02:38:51,920 --> 02:38:59,359 Most mo municipal waste systems that is how it's mandated. Nobody does it 1807 02:38:57,520 --> 02:39:03,120 intentionally and unless you have a water treatment facility. You say our 1808 02:39:01,040 --> 02:39:07,439 water treatments facilities garbage and we're building them and that's what 1809 02:39:06,000 --> 02:39:12,319 true >> that's the optional portion would be the 1810 02:39:09,680 --> 02:39:18,479 difference. And the other thing I got uh is about defense. You know, a minimum 1811 02:39:15,120 --> 02:39:26,680 number is the maximum 6t. >> Next, you know, even you and I can jump 1812 02:39:21,520 --> 02:39:26,680 over that if you want to get in there. 1813 02:39:30,000 --> 02:39:34,200 I mean the standard 1814 02:39:34,800 --> 02:39:42,080 » because we do a smaller fence if it's a smaller array. Take green bush for 1815 02:39:39,920 --> 02:39:47,920 instance. Those are very shallow and short arrays. A 6ft fence which what 1816 02:39:45,439 --> 02:39:52,000 they have is perfectly acceptable for that type of array. 1817 02:39:50,080 --> 02:39:57,600 If they're putting more industrial cuz that is a tiny 1818 02:39:54,800 --> 02:40:03,920 tiny solar field. An industrial solar field will have a 1819 02:40:00,399 --> 02:40:10,319 minimum 12 array because that panel has to have enough 1820 02:40:07,359 --> 02:40:14,800 wobble back and forth to collect. And if they have a higher array, 1821 02:40:13,040 --> 02:40:19,680 we want to make sure we have a higher fence. For those smaller systems, we 1822 02:40:17,840 --> 02:40:23,760 have a minimum for a reason. But because it's a conditional use pyramid, we 1823 02:40:22,000 --> 02:40:27,359 adjust to the height of the system itself. It's a higher array. I'm going 1824 02:40:26,000 --> 02:40:29,280 to put a 12T fence there. >> You have the authority to 1825 02:40:28,720 --> 02:40:32,000 » Yeah. >> to adjust that. 1826 02:40:30,640 --> 02:40:37,439 » You put a 20 foot there. >> Well, same with the screening cuz that's 1827 02:40:33,680 --> 02:40:41,280 my question is appropriate screening. If that can be dictated what that looks 1828 02:40:39,680 --> 02:40:45,920 like or >> Well, and that's it. Is here the 1829 02:40:43,200 --> 02:40:52,080 screening itself. It's appropriate to protect against these things. 1830 02:40:48,560 --> 02:40:56,800 If I've got houses or a school nearby, I'm going to ask for edge row screening 1831 02:40:55,200 --> 02:41:01,520 because not only is that going to give me visual screening, but it's going to 1832 02:40:58,560 --> 02:41:05,200 give me some audio screening. It's going to give me a little bit of glare 1833 02:41:02,960 --> 02:41:09,359 screening and it's actually going to do a little bit more. And if I put a hedge 1834 02:41:07,439 --> 02:41:11,920 row next to a solar, like it's going to grow like gang busters and be even 1835 02:41:11,120 --> 02:41:17,280 taller, >> right? And and so that's what we're 1836 02:41:14,800 --> 02:41:21,920 saying when it's appropriate, we're still in that conditional use theory. 1837 02:41:19,439 --> 02:41:28,800 We're still in conditional use where we have the ability to bob and weed as it 1838 02:41:25,200 --> 02:41:34,720 comes at us. Cuz my thoughts are hypothetical. Yeah. Rule community 1839 02:41:32,800 --> 02:41:39,680 neighboring properties. It's a main idea outside of the neighboring property, but 1840 02:41:37,200 --> 02:41:44,000 just for I guess neighbor being neighborly if 1841 02:41:42,160 --> 02:41:49,439 they want screening so they can physically see it. Is that something we 1842 02:41:46,080 --> 02:41:54,640 dictate? We can if we come in and say, "All right, this becomes a nuisance 1843 02:41:51,200 --> 02:42:02,880 thing for public health and we have a protest petition within 1844 02:41:57,520 --> 02:42:06,080 1,000 ft says at 6:00 that that panel is going to be shining right through my 1845 02:42:04,399 --> 02:42:10,960 kitchen window." And guess what? I'm cooking at 6:00. 1846 02:42:08,560 --> 02:42:16,800 So, I don't want it there. And we can say, "Well, we have two options. We can 1847 02:42:14,319 --> 02:42:21,200 deny that overall we're going to have issues if they decide to find that or we 1848 02:42:19,359 --> 02:42:27,439 can come back and say you need to have appropriate screening high enough that 1849 02:42:24,319 --> 02:42:33,760 the visual glare will not affect the health or the private use of this 1850 02:42:30,880 --> 02:42:39,439 resident when we send it back down for conditions and that we now see from an 1851 02:42:37,600 --> 02:42:44,960 engineering standpoint that we need to have screening of at least 12 to 15 ft. 1852 02:42:42,960 --> 02:42:51,520 uh we were proposed that you do that through Jasper lines or something like 1853 02:42:47,439 --> 02:42:55,240 those but that would be how that type of procedure would look 1854 02:42:56,960 --> 02:43:02,760 other questions comments. Okay. 1855 02:43:05,680 --> 02:43:11,680 Okay. Article 10 special events. I'm going to 1856 02:43:09,600 --> 02:43:17,840 tell you I took this straight out of your old book and put into your book. 1857 02:43:13,520 --> 02:43:24,160 Want to know why? May loves her special. Um, these are the types. The only thing 1858 02:43:21,520 --> 02:43:28,000 different is the data index does allow us to have a fee schedule 1859 02:43:26,399 --> 02:43:33,439 that goes along with this because I think schedules are a lot better for 1860 02:43:30,479 --> 02:43:39,520 having random things. And that would be the application would 1861 02:43:35,040 --> 02:43:46,439 be under 106 page 74. questions, comments about our special 1862 02:43:41,680 --> 02:43:46,439 events on that one. 1863 02:43:48,388 --> 02:43:50,407 [clears throat] 1864 02:43:51,040 --> 02:43:55,640 Okay, nonconformities. 1865 02:43:55,680 --> 02:44:03,680 This talks about non-conforming lots of record, how we show them, how we meet 1866 02:44:01,279 --> 02:44:08,880 with them. So, this is where we get our authority 1867 02:44:05,680 --> 02:44:14,399 to act on all conformities. We can require things including up to 1868 02:44:11,760 --> 02:44:19,520 enlargement repair, destruction of property or moving of property or the 1869 02:44:16,560 --> 02:44:24,399 non-conforming use. We have ability to give extensions for 1870 02:44:22,160 --> 02:44:30,160 non-conforming uses and things such as that. But it also gives us our 1871 02:44:26,080 --> 02:44:36,960 authority. That is where our authority to act comes out of. It gives us the 1872 02:44:34,560 --> 02:44:41,920 authority under our civil penalties and it gives them notice 1873 02:44:40,080 --> 02:44:46,000 for us to act. So our notice requirements at least on the initial 1874 02:44:43,840 --> 02:44:50,279 point allows us a little bit more authority at this point. 1875 02:44:50,640 --> 02:45:00,240 This is a general statement of nonconformities. Um it's not very uh 1876 02:44:57,120 --> 02:45:07,479 shown or not very uh added or subtracted to but it is basic standard language. 1877 02:45:02,720 --> 02:45:07,479 Any questions or comments on that one? 1878 02:45:07,680 --> 02:45:16,080 Okay, moving on to art 12, planning and zoning. 1879 02:45:13,200 --> 02:45:22,640 So, part of this book gives the zoning administrator more authority than always 1880 02:45:19,200 --> 02:45:27,840 having to go to a planning and zoning. When you give the zoning author or the 1881 02:45:25,600 --> 02:45:33,040 zoning administrator any authority, you have to create a board of zoning 1882 02:45:29,920 --> 02:45:37,279 appeals. Most counties, the board of zoning appeals and the board of uh 1883 02:45:35,760 --> 02:45:41,920 planning and zoning commissioners are the same people. You have the same 1884 02:45:39,760 --> 02:45:45,680 meetings and the same everything else. They just have a different name for half 1885 02:45:43,520 --> 02:45:52,319 of the meeting. Uh what this does is this outlines the 1886 02:45:49,200 --> 02:45:56,160 procedure. Um what will happen is once these are approved I will write a 1887 02:45:53,760 --> 02:46:04,240 resolution for you to pass to implement those and to promptly appoint uh 1888 02:46:00,960 --> 02:46:12,160 whomever or reappoint whomever at that point. Um it outlines the purpose 1889 02:46:08,319 --> 02:46:18,720 meetings and hearings the zoning process the appeals process for both types of 1890 02:46:15,279 --> 02:46:23,840 hearings what each does. Uh the big thing for zoning appeals is 1891 02:46:21,200 --> 02:46:28,240 they appeal the zoning administrator and the zoning appeals board actually hears 1892 02:46:25,920 --> 02:46:31,680 variances. Other than that most of this is going to 1893 02:46:30,240 --> 02:46:36,960 be done by the planning commission themselves. So 1894 02:46:34,479 --> 02:46:41,520 we have a basic planning procedure that we added to this uh procedure for 1895 02:46:39,680 --> 02:46:48,160 meetings application process 1896 02:46:43,760 --> 02:46:53,520 conflicts and amendments that may be done ahead of time time 1897 02:46:50,479 --> 02:46:59,800 but this is just a basic adoption type uh process. 1898 02:46:55,200 --> 02:46:59,800 So any questions comments or concerns? 1899 02:47:03,200 --> 02:47:11,520 All right, amendments and reszoning. So, what this does is it outlines our policy 1900 02:47:08,479 --> 02:47:17,680 and procedure for amendments and reszoning. gives you the specifics 1901 02:47:15,760 --> 02:47:22,960 including publishing in the morning sun,000 ft of property line mail 20 days 1902 02:47:20,960 --> 02:47:28,479 in advance. Florida County Commissioners hearings 1903 02:47:24,880 --> 02:47:31,760 two3 votes super majority votes and you guys 1904 02:47:30,000 --> 02:47:37,600 a super majority doesn't work for you in the same way. It's unanimous. So um when 1905 02:47:35,120 --> 02:47:42,880 you have a three member board instead of additional members, 1906 02:47:39,760 --> 02:47:46,960 these are also pretty standard um conditions and things such as that. 1907 02:47:44,479 --> 02:47:52,479 There might be an opinion or something that Jim might want to come back for the 1908 02:47:50,000 --> 02:47:56,319 BOCC policy or procedure of it or how they want to handle or if he wants to 1909 02:47:53,920 --> 02:48:02,000 add something specifically. But those are your general procedures. Any 1910 02:47:58,080 --> 02:48:06,479 questions, comments or concerns? Our last section is your enforcement 1911 02:48:04,160 --> 02:48:09,479 violation and felony. So what we did here 1912 02:48:09,840 --> 02:48:18,240 is we opened up how we deal with conflicts 1913 02:48:15,680 --> 02:48:21,240 and enforcement um 1914 02:48:21,520 --> 02:48:28,000 how we do penalties, how we issue penalties. So, your board of zoning 1915 02:48:26,319 --> 02:48:34,720 appeals, because we have a board of zoning appeals, can hear certain types 1916 02:48:31,680 --> 02:48:40,560 of violations themselves and determine up to fines up to $500. 1917 02:48:38,160 --> 02:48:49,200 It's up to us to enforce those zoning laws, but that's the basic idea there. 1918 02:48:45,680 --> 02:48:55,359 We have other things that we can do into this, including the codes. So under this 1919 02:48:52,720 --> 02:49:02,319 section, we gave authority to the codes court that you already have to be able 1920 02:48:59,200 --> 02:49:08,080 to hear some of these violations and regulations including zoning. This 1921 02:49:04,720 --> 02:49:13,600 allows us to go through planning or go through and do tax statements. We can do 1922 02:49:11,359 --> 02:49:20,880 fines. Most of this is going to be tax related. That's what this happens in. We 1923 02:49:17,600 --> 02:49:26,439 only generally for zoning things only have financial powers of incentive. 1924 02:49:27,040 --> 02:49:35,359 Um we have requirements of of building permits and things such as that. And our 1925 02:49:33,600 --> 02:49:39,920 last statement is our effective date. But outside of 1926 02:49:38,080 --> 02:49:45,960 that, that is our general rules for enforcement. Are there any questions, 1927 02:49:42,240 --> 02:49:45,960 comments, or concerns? 1928 02:49:46,399 --> 02:49:49,399 Okay, 1929 02:49:53,040 --> 02:50:02,000 before we move forward, um, let's go ahead and go to the countywide zoning. 1930 02:49:59,439 --> 02:50:05,319 So, I'm going to pull this up for a second here. 1931 02:50:07,439 --> 02:50:11,640 in your motions of recommendation. 1932 02:50:12,800 --> 02:50:20,720 Uh as a recommendation, motion was made by Jeff Brooks and 1933 02:50:18,240 --> 02:50:24,479 seconded by Tracy Palos and a motion and recommendation to Crawford County Board 1934 02:50:22,399 --> 02:50:30,880 of Commissioners for full meets and bound zoning for all 1935 02:50:26,800 --> 02:50:38,240 uninorporated areas of Crawford County. This means expanding our zoning map and 1936 02:50:34,560 --> 02:50:41,240 our authority for zoning under chapter 19 1937 02:50:42,399 --> 02:50:52,840 to the full meets and bounds of the unincorporated areas. Right now we are 1938 02:50:46,720 --> 02:50:52,840 currently zoned about 40% of the county. 1939 02:50:52,960 --> 02:51:02,000 What this does is to give us authority to enact these rules throughout the 1940 02:50:58,880 --> 02:51:02,000 entire county. 1941 02:51:04,960 --> 02:51:11,760 We've talked about this one quite a bit as well. 1942 02:51:09,439 --> 02:51:17,600 Meats and bounds in an unincorporated area. Our authority 1943 02:51:15,279 --> 02:51:21,520 ends and begins with our home rule authority. Courts have determined that 1944 02:51:19,520 --> 02:51:26,960 our home authority is appropriate through planning and zoning as our 1945 02:51:23,120 --> 02:51:36,080 inherent ability to control. And so in order to incorporate 1946 02:51:31,520 --> 02:51:41,760 uh not only the structured growth but to maintain the public welfare safety and 1947 02:51:38,880 --> 02:51:46,240 health of Crawford County, the Planning and Zoning 1948 02:51:44,080 --> 02:51:50,160 Commission brings to you this recommendation. 1949 02:51:48,080 --> 02:51:55,040 Outside of that, each one of these motions of recommendations 1950 02:51:52,479 --> 02:51:59,880 uh recommends each article separately for the county commission to consider. 1951 02:52:00,080 --> 02:52:07,600 Thank you. That's my presentation. Thank you, Josh. I'd like to make one 1952 02:52:04,960 --> 02:52:10,960 comment. There's been a lot of talk that 1953 02:52:09,279 --> 02:52:18,160 everybody wants to stop wind and solar in Crawford 1954 02:52:15,359 --> 02:52:26,000 County. The best way for we can handle it is by countywide zoning because then 1955 02:52:21,920 --> 02:52:31,279 we get a chance to look at each situation because there may be some that 1956 02:52:28,720 --> 02:52:36,560 will come up that is perfect and there may be some that come up that are not 1957 02:52:33,680 --> 02:52:40,640 and that way we can control but if we don't have it they can go into the 1958 02:52:38,479 --> 02:52:46,000 county and other parts of the county that we're 1959 02:52:42,960 --> 02:52:50,479 not zone and do whatever they want. So that's just the comment that I wanted to 1960 02:52:48,560 --> 02:52:56,160 make to make sure everybody understands that because I've heard seen a lot of 1961 02:52:53,040 --> 02:53:03,040 comments and stuff about it all. And I one other statement a statement was made 1962 02:52:59,439 --> 02:53:11,200 on one of the websites that in our meetings we did not allow the public to 1963 02:53:06,479 --> 02:53:16,479 speak. And that is totally incorrect because even when we had special 1964 02:53:13,200 --> 02:53:22,080 meetings that were closed to the public when we had our meeting there was only a 1965 02:53:19,760 --> 02:53:27,520 few people there. I even opened the floor up to the people sitting there to 1966 02:53:25,200 --> 02:53:33,840 see what else they would have. And we did that even in our public uh public 1967 02:53:30,640 --> 02:53:39,680 meetings after we we said you had to uh register to speak before time. I opened 1968 02:53:37,120 --> 02:53:43,680 the floor up afterwards and let anybody speak I wanted to speak. So I don't know 1969 02:53:42,240 --> 02:53:47,840 who may where they found that information out but that is totally 1970 02:53:45,359 --> 02:53:52,800 incorrect. >> Clarification there. 1971 02:53:50,000 --> 02:53:57,439 » There were no private meetings. All of them were public work sessions. 1972 02:53:54,640 --> 02:54:01,880 They were private or closed to public comment during session. 1973 02:54:02,479 --> 02:54:06,439 make sure that we're that 1974 02:54:08,160 --> 02:54:18,399 » um No, I appreciate the zoning board time. It's been a lot. 1975 02:54:15,200 --> 02:54:23,920 It's been a lot. Yeah. But I want to thank the zoning board as well even for 1976 02:54:21,120 --> 02:54:29,359 coming today because I'm sure you've heard and learned more about this than 1977 02:54:26,160 --> 02:54:34,560 you ever thought about because I know we have. So again, I just want to thank you 1978 02:54:31,600 --> 02:54:40,479 guys for that. >> I want to tell the zoning board me lobby 1979 02:54:38,000 --> 02:54:45,680 for being the chair. I really appreciate everything you've done and we still I 1980 02:54:43,520 --> 02:54:49,600 feel there's still more work to do, but I think we're getting in the right 1981 02:54:47,200 --> 02:54:52,600 direction cuz we need zoning planning close. 1982 02:54:52,800 --> 02:55:00,479 » All right. Well, 1983 02:54:57,520 --> 02:55:06,640 what else? I mean I know I mean you elected we need to make a decision on 1984 02:55:02,560 --> 02:55:11,760 zoning because that drives a lot of this vote 1985 02:55:09,120 --> 02:55:16,160 » um discussion on that. 1986 02:55:14,399 --> 02:55:23,840 » Yes. Go ahead. >> Well I tell you what like Bobby said 1987 02:55:19,439 --> 02:55:28,240 three words. Zoning protects the people from, you know, if they don't have 1988 02:55:25,920 --> 02:55:35,359 zoning, like you said, then go out there and do anything and try to get by with 1989 02:55:31,040 --> 02:55:41,520 it. I in favor of zoning. Uh I live in a zoned area all my life and never have. 1990 02:55:39,279 --> 02:55:48,399 I've been on the zoning board. I've been up here as a commissioner. Only one time 1991 02:55:44,000 --> 02:55:52,399 do we ever deny somebody. It was because what they wanted to bring in out of 1992 02:55:50,319 --> 02:55:57,840 Oklahoma and that's only the one time and that 1993 02:55:54,560 --> 02:56:02,319 same particular day was only another party that they could do it but the 1994 02:56:00,399 --> 02:56:08,319 other was this what they was bringing in. So we want to help people. We want 1995 02:56:04,880 --> 02:56:12,800 Crawford County to grow but we everybody thinks well we're going to manage it. No 1996 02:56:10,160 --> 02:56:18,479 we're not. We're not going to manage it. We're going to protect you. That's just 1997 02:56:15,120 --> 02:56:18,479 how I feel about it. 1998 02:56:20,640 --> 02:56:31,040 What I might add is I've sat here a long time, almost 30 years, and I have been 1999 02:56:27,279 --> 02:56:38,399 involved in offering countywide zoning on several occasions. And I'm somewhat 2000 02:56:34,960 --> 02:56:43,760 flabbergasted that it's just us today because normally it would be not only 2001 02:56:41,520 --> 02:56:48,720 packed in here, but packed out there. They'd be to the tune of two, 300 2002 02:56:45,920 --> 02:56:55,279 people, angry people. But I gotta agree with Carl. Things are 2003 02:56:51,439 --> 02:57:00,800 different now than they were 10, 20, 30 years ago. Uh there's something new 2004 02:56:58,319 --> 02:57:07,200 that's coming and there's concern with alternate energy. Um and I'm not against 2005 02:57:04,160 --> 02:57:13,760 alternate energy, but I am against it in certain spots. And I think by offering 2006 02:57:11,279 --> 02:57:19,359 countywide zoning that it gives protection 2007 02:57:15,680 --> 02:57:25,840 to have some teeth. I keep going back to what Josh said 2008 02:57:22,560 --> 02:57:32,080 months ago and when we were upstairs and that's if 2009 02:57:27,680 --> 02:57:37,120 we have zoning, we can fight to see that it goes the direction that we want to 2010 02:57:34,000 --> 02:57:42,160 see it go. If we don't have zoning, there's not a damn thing we can do about 2011 02:57:38,800 --> 02:57:50,160 it. It will go to court. Each case will be individual. It will cost to the tune 2012 02:57:45,600 --> 02:57:55,600 of a half million and 7 years of fighting and your chances of winning are 2013 02:57:52,800 --> 02:58:02,319 less than 50%. I myself don't like the odds, the expense. So, by offering 2014 02:57:59,040 --> 02:58:09,520 zoning, we at least can look at it. We're not saying yes. We're not saying 2015 02:58:04,160 --> 02:58:14,960 no, but we're giving it an avenue to go to where we do have some say. So that's 2016 02:58:12,800 --> 02:58:20,720 my take. >> Yeah, I appreciate that. And 2017 02:58:17,760 --> 02:58:27,840 yeah, that's a that's been hard cuz well the map's covered right now, but 2018 02:58:23,840 --> 02:58:31,120 the unzoneed area is mostly mine. I see it both ways. I understand both sides of 2019 02:58:29,840 --> 02:58:34,479 it. I've been in the zoned area. It hasn't affected me at all. To be honest 2020 02:58:33,200 --> 02:58:38,880 with you, I've built stuff without a permit. 2021 02:58:36,479 --> 02:58:43,520 And way years ago, May wasn't here, but nobody came knock on my door and said 2022 02:58:40,319 --> 02:58:49,040 anything otherwise. Um, I mean, I knew zoning was probably going to be the end 2023 02:58:45,920 --> 02:58:53,920 product of today. But if that's the case, then I think we 2024 02:58:51,680 --> 02:58:56,640 address today the items that got us here. And I know we're doing a 2025 02:58:55,120 --> 02:59:01,840 comprehensive plan. I know that's part of the bigger picture here. But really 2026 02:58:58,880 --> 02:59:04,160 the the conversation for the last year, two and a half years, four years, 2027 02:59:03,200 --> 02:59:07,920 whatever the hell you want to call it right now, has been the green energy 2028 02:59:06,160 --> 02:59:13,279 stuff. And I think we address a few of those today. Um 2029 02:59:11,040 --> 02:59:17,600 I just [clears throat] soon move on. We're we're at that point. We've 2030 02:59:15,600 --> 02:59:23,359 listened to comments so many times that I've it's repeated enough that we know. 2031 02:59:21,760 --> 02:59:29,840 I mean, I could predict what Becky would say. She would come up here right now. 2032 02:59:24,800 --> 02:59:33,359 So she doesn't need to. So, um, yeah, I mean, that's re I've been 2033 02:59:32,080 --> 02:59:38,080 telling people the reason we didn't do it when we were vote. There's no sense 2034 02:59:35,920 --> 02:59:42,479 since spend the money on when we're going to reszone. Um, the additional 2035 02:59:40,800 --> 02:59:46,399 survey, there's no sense in spending the money when I know it's going to happen. 2036 02:59:44,800 --> 02:59:50,080 Uh, I'm not going to say I'm 100% 2037 02:59:47,600 --> 02:59:55,520 outnumbered because I see it both ways. I am standoffish, but I I do see the 2038 02:59:54,240 --> 02:59:59,200 bigger picture. There's some scary things out there and we got to protect 2039 02:59:56,960 --> 03:00:02,000 ourselves. And we got to be upfront with the fact that when we did the survey 2040 03:00:00,640 --> 03:00:08,000 from the very beginning, we said we've listened to public input. And when I 2041 03:00:04,640 --> 03:00:12,880 look at the survey, you know, the zoning is right there. It's right on the fence 2042 03:00:10,080 --> 03:00:17,279 for and against it. And you got seven people that obviously 2043 03:00:15,680 --> 03:00:20,760 talked it out and supported it. And I respect your opinion. 2044 03:00:20,960 --> 03:00:25,680 So, I really think it's it's us now. 2045 03:00:26,000 --> 03:00:33,760 So, I make a motion that we zone the whole 2046 03:00:31,040 --> 03:00:39,760 county or the partial of the county that's not zoned. 2047 03:00:36,960 --> 03:00:44,000 » Carl, I'm going to second that with the understanding that we're not saying yes 2048 03:00:42,399 --> 03:00:46,880 or no to anything. We're just saying there's an avenue that has to be taken. 2049 03:00:46,399 --> 03:00:50,880 It does >> and looked at each case individually. 2050 03:00:48,880 --> 03:00:53,279 » Yes, there's right places and wrong places. 2051 03:00:51,279 --> 03:00:59,279 » That is very, very true. Having said that, I will sit 2052 03:00:55,920 --> 03:01:04,720 and I am with the condition condition of I don't want overreach on the unzoned 2053 03:01:02,080 --> 03:01:11,439 area. I want us to be fair with people that make zoned understand what their 2054 03:01:07,040 --> 03:01:16,000 needs are and sounds bad but not have the teeth to control everything to 2055 03:01:14,560 --> 03:01:22,880 because that's what they don't want and I respect that. be realistic in what our 2056 03:01:19,279 --> 03:01:27,600 zoning regulations are and and abide by those. Now, I disagree with Tom a little 2057 03:01:24,960 --> 03:01:31,200 bit because I think right now looking at the survey results and what we've dealt 2058 03:01:29,120 --> 03:01:35,680 with for the last 2 and 1/2 years, I think that when it comes to article 7, I 2059 03:01:33,920 --> 03:01:40,080 think it's seven, the one that has to do with wind energy, that we allow you to 2060 03:01:38,399 --> 03:01:44,640 develop the regulations for the current wind project. 2061 03:01:42,000 --> 03:01:50,560 But I think we look at I I bought this for too much. I I could see um pepper 2062 03:01:48,560 --> 03:01:54,960 farm which I was involved in. I've been there three times in the last 2 weeks. I 2063 03:01:53,680 --> 03:01:59,200 can't say anything bad about it other than the fact that you know some people 2064 03:01:56,800 --> 03:02:05,279 don't like it. I can see he went farm from router Kansas. 2065 03:02:01,520 --> 03:02:12,240 That is a long ways away. My struggle's been how close is too close to Gerard? 2066 03:02:08,800 --> 03:02:16,960 Well, everywhere. It's it's everywhere. I can't say 5 2067 03:02:15,359 --> 03:02:20,880 miles. I can't say seven miles. I can't say a certain route. I don't think land 2068 03:02:19,520 --> 03:02:24,479 at this point from what we went through in the last 2 and a half years fits in 2069 03:02:22,319 --> 03:02:29,040 Crawford County. And I've had land owners here that said, you know, you're 2070 03:02:26,000 --> 03:02:34,319 made you were chosen to make the hard decision to decide if this is good or 2071 03:02:31,760 --> 03:02:40,399 bad. I think for the growth we looking to achieve, I don't think the winds it. 2072 03:02:38,240 --> 03:02:43,760 Um, if I go up to Gailsburg, I don't see the growth. I don't see anything new 2073 03:02:41,920 --> 03:02:50,399 going on up there. It's surrounded by wind turbines. I I I 2074 03:02:47,040 --> 03:02:57,040 think that at this point to honor the survey and the public input that we say 2075 03:02:53,760 --> 03:03:02,800 wind doesn't fit in Crawford County. Solar it's right there 50/50. I think 2076 03:03:00,479 --> 03:03:06,640 you did good on these regulations as far as saying, you know, it doesn't belong 2077 03:03:04,160 --> 03:03:10,960 in certain areas. It doesn't it shouldn't be something that affects my 2078 03:03:08,960 --> 03:03:16,960 property value or affects my way of living. Is there places in the county 2079 03:03:13,600 --> 03:03:20,720 that they could exist and not affect anyone? Absolutely. Gerard's putting 30 2080 03:03:19,279 --> 03:03:23,840 acres out here right now. I don't know if anybody know they started production 2081 03:03:22,479 --> 03:03:26,479 on it because you can't see it. It's outside. 2082 03:03:25,437 --> 03:03:29,439 [clears throat] Gerard's doing it for the right reason. They're trying to 2083 03:03:27,840 --> 03:03:33,520 offset their utility bills. They're trying to keep cost down in Gard. I see 2084 03:03:32,000 --> 03:03:37,439 that as a different different thing. That's a good thing in my mind, but I 2085 03:03:35,840 --> 03:03:45,040 know people don't agree with me on that. So, uh, the wind I think is something 2086 03:03:40,960 --> 03:03:50,160 that I'm comfortable with. The solar, it maybe needs more discussion. 2087 03:03:47,760 --> 03:03:53,920 The data centers, I would like to figure out what that looks like for this plan 2088 03:03:52,560 --> 03:03:59,520 cuz I think that's important. I think our water is beyond important and what 2089 03:03:56,479 --> 03:04:03,120 it does and I don't know enough. And then the battery storage, you know, and 2090 03:04:01,120 --> 03:04:06,800 there's other things. We just need to have the means and mechanisms to address 2091 03:04:04,960 --> 03:04:09,600 these as they come along. And I think Zoe gives us that. 2092 03:04:08,080 --> 03:04:14,960 » No, I know. I know. I'm just saying. But I think that to be fair, we've spent all 2093 03:04:13,040 --> 03:04:18,479 this a lot of this time because of these projects. It would be unfair to say, 2094 03:04:17,200 --> 03:04:22,160 "Okay, we're going to zone everything out west today 2095 03:04:20,720 --> 03:04:26,160 or whatever." You know, we're going to zone everything. We already zoned 2096 03:04:23,680 --> 03:04:31,920 everything without addressing the reason we did it. 2097 03:04:28,560 --> 03:04:36,800 So, I mean, if I can make a motion, my motion would be 2098 03:04:34,000 --> 03:04:40,560 make the regulations to for what we have in terms of wind at Crawford County 2099 03:04:38,399 --> 03:04:45,439 within this to make sure everything's handled properly whenever we 2100 03:04:42,399 --> 03:04:49,840 decommission and all that such. But I I think the language of approving a new 2101 03:04:47,840 --> 03:04:55,359 new wind farm to Crawford County, I I would be against that. I think we allow 2102 03:04:52,560 --> 03:05:02,160 I'm not against that as well, Bruce. Uh I do see a difference in that uh for the 2103 03:05:00,080 --> 03:05:07,000 reasons you stated. >> So the motion on the table is Carl's 2104 03:05:11,200 --> 03:05:16,479 » I just wanted to make sure there is another motion on the 2105 03:05:14,880 --> 03:05:22,160 » Yes. What's this motion? My motion is to say 2106 03:05:18,319 --> 03:05:26,240 that that we don't allow additional wind projects in Crawford County, but we do 2107 03:05:24,240 --> 03:05:31,600 regulate or have regulations for the one we have in place right now. 2108 03:05:29,120 --> 03:05:35,359 » Do we do we really need that? I mean I mean it's already said and established 2109 03:05:33,439 --> 03:05:40,399 that that cuz you made a little bit in your presentation that we have wind 2110 03:05:36,960 --> 03:05:45,120 turbines. Well, I think we currently I think the discussion is Carl do we 2111 03:05:42,640 --> 03:05:48,520 article 7 >> article 8 2112 03:05:48,720 --> 03:05:56,800 um do we as currently written article 8 would allow um would allow for more 2113 03:05:55,434 --> 03:06:01,840 [clears throat] additional wind projects in Crawford County but I think what the 2114 03:05:59,120 --> 03:06:06,720 motion is is to limit article 8 to the existing project 2115 03:06:03,520 --> 03:06:14,120 » the one we have now we have to not allow any future wind projects. 2116 03:06:09,439 --> 03:06:14,120 » I can I was Go ahead. 2117 03:06:14,560 --> 03:06:23,200 » If you're going to make that motion, I would suggest that you also um seek to 2118 03:06:20,080 --> 03:06:30,880 have that congruent with the AR agricultural district for conditional 2119 03:06:25,439 --> 03:06:35,600 use to limit uh that conditional use for commercial energy projects to only 2120 03:06:33,439 --> 03:06:39,600 solar. I I don't disagree with you. That's very 2121 03:06:37,600 --> 03:06:42,240 good point. Does your motion still stand? Yes. 2122 03:06:40,479 --> 03:06:46,720 » Wait a minute. I've got to think on this one. 2123 03:06:45,120 --> 03:06:50,880 » Would you come back up here and repeat yourself? 2124 03:06:47,600 --> 03:06:54,960 » Okay. So, article I believe it's four. Uh now my brain is getting a little 2125 03:06:53,040 --> 03:07:01,439 mushy like everybody else. >> Your way your way for time. You're 2126 03:06:57,279 --> 03:07:06,800 thinking outside the box. Article four under conditional uses we have 2127 03:07:03,840 --> 03:07:14,160 commercial uh energy production as a conditional use. 2128 03:07:09,200 --> 03:07:21,200 If we will limit any wind energy we edit that specific section and amend the uh 2129 03:07:17,439 --> 03:07:28,000 the motion to also amend that portion of article 4 to only allow commercial 2130 03:07:24,960 --> 03:07:34,479 development of solar projects only. >> Okay. You know, what does that do to uh 2131 03:07:30,399 --> 03:07:39,920 uh nuclear? Uh >> we outlaw everything in the state or in 2132 03:07:37,200 --> 03:07:46,359 the Crawford County for commercial production to only solar. That's what 2133 03:07:43,040 --> 03:07:46,359 that does. 2134 03:07:50,000 --> 03:08:00,479 » I mean, I'm sorry. So in other words, what what Bruce said or what you're 2135 03:07:58,160 --> 03:08:06,720 saying is only thing that we're going to allow in Crawford County is solar. 2136 03:08:03,920 --> 03:08:11,279 » Well, I'm not saying we'reow there's a process 2137 03:08:08,800 --> 03:08:19,040 too. >> But if other uh green energy wants to 2138 03:08:14,160 --> 03:08:26,160 come like the nickel area, they're doing pilot programs right now. Yeah, there's 2139 03:08:22,399 --> 03:08:29,760 also the concern in article 8 about uh personal use wind turbines as well under 2140 03:08:28,720 --> 03:08:32,560 8- >> that's different. 2141 03:08:30,640 --> 03:08:36,240 » So, we would limit it from the commercial right now and I don't have an 2142 03:08:34,160 --> 03:08:41,040 issue with those. I think the issue and most people's issue is the fact that and 2143 03:08:38,319 --> 03:08:45,920 I I understand they don't want living in Gerard the zone area even though that's 2144 03:08:44,240 --> 03:08:47,600 now everything's going to be zoned they don't want them outside of Jerard. 2145 03:08:47,200 --> 03:08:52,640 » Okay. >> And I and I respect that. That's what 2146 03:08:49,680 --> 03:08:57,760 that is. So to clarify, Carl, what it's saying is since when is included in 2147 03:08:55,040 --> 03:09:03,439 article 4, it needs to be admitted for that motion to 2148 03:08:59,439 --> 03:09:09,760 » what I would do is restate it is >> that is not inconsistent with this uh 2149 03:09:07,439 --> 03:09:15,200 with the regulations in this book. So if we disallow it specifically in article 8 2150 03:09:13,279 --> 03:09:17,200 by just adding that language there, that's 2151 03:09:15,600 --> 03:09:21,200 » takes out all the rest. It will take it out of all the rest of them. It'll allow 2152 03:09:19,359 --> 03:09:28,479 for anything else to still be there for conditional use permits and uh answer my 2153 03:09:25,520 --> 03:09:34,680 question. Either one of you if you wants to come here in Crawford County, you're 2154 03:09:30,800 --> 03:09:34,680 saying we can't 2155 03:09:34,720 --> 03:09:46,279 go through the process. Okay. What does solar go through the process? 2156 03:09:41,120 --> 03:09:46,279 Okay. So, okay. Okay. 2157 03:09:46,640 --> 03:09:52,479 I'm just saying at this point I don't think with respect to the survey and the 2158 03:09:50,880 --> 03:09:56,479 people took the time because we said we would take stock into this. 2159 03:09:53,920 --> 03:10:00,319 » Absolutely. And if we only approved zoning we picked one little piece and 2160 03:09:58,399 --> 03:10:03,520 now grant this survey address the housing and all the things which are in 2161 03:10:01,760 --> 03:10:07,120 this book and we haven't talked a whole lot about that but we address those 2162 03:10:04,960 --> 03:10:11,520 today but if we if we really take stock into this we're here because of the 2163 03:10:09,279 --> 03:10:16,000 green energy we need to at least address that a little bit. I am comfortable 2164 03:10:13,520 --> 03:10:21,920 saying I don't think wind fits. We address that. We look at the rest of 2165 03:10:19,040 --> 03:10:26,319 them. I think that the regulation we have 2166 03:10:23,439 --> 03:10:30,560 said that you know we're not saying no. We're just saying certain areas are not 2167 03:10:28,319 --> 03:10:34,880 fit. >> And depending on stipulations and such, 2168 03:10:32,720 --> 03:10:40,720 we look at the mini nuclear we cross that bridge when if it ever happens. But 2169 03:10:37,920 --> 03:10:44,560 the same with their processing once I mean we can talk around this for hours 2170 03:10:42,240 --> 03:10:52,560 because I could make up something in my 3 years feeling like that right now. 2171 03:10:47,200 --> 03:10:55,439 » The freshwater salt water mixture seems talking. 2172 03:10:53,279 --> 03:11:00,560 » So my motion is basically saying that the wind project we have right now we 2173 03:10:57,359 --> 03:11:04,240 need to have rules or not regulation but we need to cover ourselves with 2174 03:11:02,479 --> 03:11:08,240 decommission etc which you've done well in here. It's just the fact that future 2175 03:11:06,399 --> 03:11:12,479 projects don't fit in Crawford County in my mind. 2176 03:11:10,640 --> 03:11:16,760 That was the motion. That's the motion if that makes sense. I'll second. 2177 03:11:17,840 --> 03:11:25,240 Josh, I appreciate all this. I appreciate it's been% 2178 03:11:26,479 --> 03:11:36,479 yet. >> We're not 100% yet, but All right. So we 2179 03:11:32,479 --> 03:11:41,120 can uh so we've kind of write something we pick one article 2180 03:11:39,120 --> 03:11:44,000 we're going to go by article now >> okay 2181 03:11:42,640 --> 03:11:45,760 you know there's some things in these articles to me 2182 03:11:45,439 --> 03:11:51,040 » yes >> I hate to not kick it down the road but 2183 03:11:48,319 --> 03:11:53,520 can we look at it and three or four of us discuss it a little bit more in 2184 03:11:52,800 --> 03:12:01,359 detail >> what I would suggest in this case is um 2185 03:11:58,800 --> 03:12:06,080 have a set time certain to produce written instructions back for articles 2186 03:12:04,479 --> 03:12:11,680 or things that you disagree with. >> Okay, that's fine. and uh represent them 2187 03:12:09,359 --> 03:12:16,560 and move as a board when those >> cuz I got two or three that you know I 2188 03:12:14,640 --> 03:12:20,720 mean I'm not saying I disagree with you that uh 2189 03:12:18,880 --> 03:12:27,760 » these are I'll say that these are not Josh Alman 2190 03:12:25,200 --> 03:12:32,720 uh regulations that they're suggestions and recommendations 2191 03:12:30,399 --> 03:12:37,920 and you put a great point earlier I don't live in Crawford County and I 2192 03:12:35,040 --> 03:12:43,279 don't know what I'm Maybe sarcastic, >> but but but it's a true statement. That 2193 03:12:40,560 --> 03:12:47,840 is why you guys make the decisions. We make recommendations and I make 2194 03:12:45,359 --> 03:12:54,240 recommendations to them and they tell me they go, you know, take a hike sometimes 2195 03:12:50,880 --> 03:13:00,640 and sometimes they sometimes they they accept them. But we need the 2196 03:12:57,680 --> 03:13:05,120 participation of all the groups to get what we need. And I appreciate 2197 03:13:03,520 --> 03:13:10,080 you as commissioners that want to take the time to review these and come back 2198 03:13:08,240 --> 03:13:14,160 with written statements for us to look at so we can sit down and have a clear 2199 03:13:12,960 --> 03:13:18,399 picture >> of what you want. 2200 03:13:16,399 --> 03:13:20,800 » Uh and I understand that's going to take time as well cuz we're all busy and 2201 03:13:20,240 --> 03:13:24,479 that's fine. >> That's that's what I would propose. 2202 03:13:22,800 --> 03:13:30,080 » We don't want to rush into it and you know and if I offended you I apologize. 2203 03:13:32,640 --> 03:13:38,640 I live in >> and I admit that I live in Andover and 2204 03:13:36,560 --> 03:13:43,760 my wife kind of put this pretty well the other day for 2205 03:13:41,359 --> 03:13:50,319 » she doesn't travel outside of 2206 03:13:46,640 --> 03:13:56,000 the 5 mile square radius of Andover for 90% of her day. probably more unless 2207 03:13:54,239 --> 03:14:01,600 she's taking the kids to practice which is in Witchah just a few miles away. 2208 03:13:59,200 --> 03:14:09,040 She doesn't leave that area and I made her drive up to Kansas City by herself 2209 03:14:04,720 --> 03:14:13,600 and it was like a foreign world for her that even though she's done it plenty of 2210 03:14:10,800 --> 03:14:18,479 times, she doesn't do it daily. And it makes a difference when you interact 2211 03:14:16,160 --> 03:14:23,200 with them daily and I don't. And that's what I'm saying is I'm not offended. I I 2212 03:14:21,200 --> 03:14:29,520 appreciate that because that's the point is I don't live in, you know, 2213 03:14:26,080 --> 03:14:35,040 Pittsburgh, Gerard, Front Neck, Arma. I don't live in Brazen. I don't live up in 2214 03:14:31,359 --> 03:14:39,680 Hler. And I don't know what they think you guys do. So that's why. 2215 03:14:36,960 --> 03:14:45,840 » Okay. Square. So I guess is it talking to Jim over 2216 03:14:42,640 --> 03:14:50,080 here? A little sidebar. Um, would the commission be okay looking through these 2217 03:14:47,760 --> 03:14:54,239 having recommendations by the 21st? Is that enough for you? 2218 03:14:53,040 --> 03:14:58,640 » That's fine. >> But apparent in July? 2219 03:14:56,399 --> 03:15:02,640 » Yes. Do you need do one more time? >> I'd like to take a little bit more. I'd 2220 03:15:00,080 --> 03:15:06,560 like to at least a couple meetings, you know, with us and maybe I mean, I'm 2221 03:15:04,800 --> 03:15:11,680 saying you go through personally and you figure out what you want personally and 2222 03:15:09,040 --> 03:15:16,359 then we can do our meetings. But for us to sit down and go through all this 2223 03:15:13,359 --> 03:15:16,359 again, 2224 03:15:19,680 --> 03:15:27,279 all I did is go through and highlight areas that I had issues with and then we 2225 03:15:24,479 --> 03:15:32,399 can compile that and agree or disagree. I think my idea will be my idea is work 2226 03:15:30,000 --> 03:15:39,279 of May based on what I've heard so far and then you try to get it set a couple 2227 03:15:35,439 --> 03:15:45,600 pages that we can turn into a motion to recommend back to the zoning board. 2228 03:15:43,279 --> 03:15:50,239 We can make that the 28th. If we want two weeks, we'll make the 28th. 28th. 2229 03:15:47,760 --> 03:15:54,880 Uh, that's right. We can vote. The goal will be to vote on the 28th uh for items 2230 03:15:52,640 --> 03:15:59,120 we were either in approval with or or that we want to send back for further 2231 03:15:56,319 --> 03:16:03,760 review for the zoning board. I think 2232 03:16:00,960 --> 03:16:09,680 I think it's always like I said there's going to be 2233 03:16:06,720 --> 03:16:12,680 pain. >> Sure. 2234 03:16:16,560 --> 03:16:19,560 Monster. 2235 03:16:22,399 --> 03:16:30,080 Yes, we do. How about taking 5 minutes? >> What are you guys doing? Thank you guys 2236 03:16:27,920 --> 03:16:34,399 for taking a very long detailed look into the little orange office in the 2237 03:16:31,840 --> 03:16:38,279 first floor. I do appreciate it. >> Thanks everybody. Don't forget 2238 03:16:39,040 --> 03:16:49,520 want to thank everybody for sitting here and listen to everything we went through 2239 03:16:43,040 --> 03:16:56,640 because we're we're a very close finish. So we're getting there. We're 2240 03:16:52,319 --> 03:17:01,319 about there. We're just about there. Josh now cuz he's got to be busy 2241 03:17:01,920 --> 03:17:04,920 change. 2242 03:17:17,920 --> 03:17:22,439 Yeah, I know where I need to go. 2243 03:21:34,160 --> 03:21:37,560 do that here. 2244 03:21:38,720 --> 03:21:48,359 I used to love those. >> All right, call meeting back to order. 2245 03:21:44,560 --> 03:21:48,359 Uh, new business. 2246 03:21:48,560 --> 03:21:54,560 » Yes, >> Lisa. Sorry. 2247 03:21:50,080 --> 03:21:59,120 » That's okay. Um, I would just want to see if we can schedule [clears throat] 2248 03:21:55,920 --> 03:22:04,960 that work session, a budget work session with Tim Migrit on Tuesday at 9:00 a.m. 2249 03:22:02,800 --> 03:22:08,720 » Tuesday the 14th. Do you not have something? 2250 03:22:06,160 --> 03:22:14,560 » No, we had tentatively scheduled some budget stuff, but we we moved it. 2251 03:22:13,920 --> 03:22:15,760 » I'm good. >> Okay, 2252 03:22:15,040 --> 03:22:21,279 » I'm good. >> Okay, that's all I am. 2253 03:22:20,800 --> 03:22:26,279 That's it. >> And then are we going to do anything 2254 03:22:22,479 --> 03:22:26,279 with the budget budget? 2255 03:22:27,520 --> 03:22:33,680 » We can keep going with the sheriff. I mean, if we get stuff from sheriff, 2256 03:22:31,760 --> 03:22:38,080 we're going to I guess if we get it, we can we can plug it in. 2257 03:22:35,680 --> 03:22:38,960 » If we get it, we can plug it in at that same day. 2258 03:22:38,640 --> 03:22:43,359 » Yeah. >> Yeah. We can just go We'll start at 9:00 2259 03:22:40,960 --> 03:22:45,680 and go to whenever. >> Okay. Thank you. Anything else? 2260 03:22:44,479 --> 03:22:49,840 » Nope. That's it. >> Jim, new business? 2261 03:22:46,880 --> 03:22:54,080 » Yes. Couple items real quick here. A request 2262 03:22:51,840 --> 03:23:00,880 to close close a road for the uh for Camptown 2263 03:22:58,800 --> 03:23:05,359 at the Camptown event center asking for road closing to be 600 Avenue. How long 2264 03:23:04,000 --> 03:23:10,479 close for now? >> July 23rd through the early morning of 2265 03:23:08,319 --> 03:23:17,359 the 26th. So that is the Thursday through Sunday 2266 03:23:14,160 --> 03:23:23,359 morning. And that will help u as I set up for their display as they'll be on 2267 03:23:20,080 --> 03:23:28,880 both sides of the road. Um we can actually close it back at the west end 2268 03:23:25,680 --> 03:23:32,880 of that mile. I don't think the locals try to be still 2269 03:23:30,880 --> 03:23:38,319 allowed to get to properties. I don't think it'll hurt anything. So or will 2270 03:23:35,920 --> 03:23:44,479 they have to will they use that access point to get to the parking lot? 2271 03:23:41,439 --> 03:23:50,160 » Yeah. Well, we figured out the closure closure out. The main thing 2272 03:23:46,720 --> 03:23:54,080 is get the closure out the chairman. If there's no questions on it, we have a 2273 03:23:52,319 --> 03:23:57,080 request. Second, 2274 03:23:57,680 --> 03:24:02,920 I said this to the sheriff bridge 2275 03:24:04,720 --> 03:24:10,880 man. Uh [singing] 2276 03:24:08,239 --> 03:24:16,000 I'm going to I'm going to present this. Let's see what 2277 03:24:13,439 --> 03:24:21,520 it's a lot. And if you want, we can hang on till Tuesday if you want to. We have 2278 03:24:18,640 --> 03:24:28,319 already approved this expenditure. Uh this was the study for uh the 11th 2279 03:24:24,640 --> 03:24:32,880 judicial district for the uh space up here at the courthouse for the for the 2280 03:24:30,560 --> 03:24:36,000 uh [snorts] for the court and then over in Pittsburgh. So, we've already 2281 03:24:34,239 --> 03:24:40,800 approved the expense. This is just the contract between the architect and the 2282 03:24:37,920 --> 03:24:43,920 county to provide this service. And we've already approved it, right? 2283 03:24:42,399 --> 03:24:48,960 » We approved the third their bid. Yeah, this was supposed to 38,000 and we 2284 03:24:46,880 --> 03:24:53,680 approved that. This is just the contract. I'm open for questions. And if 2285 03:24:52,080 --> 03:25:00,080 you want to take a look at we can approve this at this point, you know, 2286 03:24:57,279 --> 03:25:06,640 but one thing I was wondering about uh when we was talking to them there and 2287 03:25:03,920 --> 03:25:10,560 over here, they didn't say anything. I know we need work done over here. I 2288 03:25:08,720 --> 03:25:15,600 mean, design work, but I thought there was the main concern that the main 2289 03:25:13,120 --> 03:25:19,359 concern is Pittsburgh, right? So, how come they're filling this in there? I'm 2290 03:25:17,600 --> 03:25:22,239 just asking. Yeah, I thought they were just going to come over and take a look 2291 03:25:20,560 --> 03:25:25,760 at anything over here. It's just they're 2292 03:25:24,399 --> 03:25:30,560 while they're doing it, I think the judge wants 2293 03:25:28,399 --> 03:25:35,920 the main getting us a plan kind of some 2294 03:25:32,960 --> 03:25:39,920 preliminary ideas for Pittsburgh up here, too. Yes. You want to see what 2295 03:25:37,760 --> 03:25:44,960 space they utilize over here and there may be a great idea to do something more 2296 03:25:43,200 --> 03:25:49,680 centrally located. They may have good ideas. Yeah. But just just look while 2297 03:25:47,680 --> 03:25:56,319 they're here. This is really So you're looking at a motion to I approve the AIA 2298 03:25:53,760 --> 03:26:01,200 doc. We've already approved. Okay. Mr. 2299 03:25:59,359 --> 03:26:06,000 Chairman, I so move authorizing the chairman to sign. I'll second it. 2300 03:26:03,439 --> 03:26:11,319 » Thank you very much. And that is all I have. Two copies of this couple copies. 2301 03:26:12,640 --> 03:26:17,160 Thank you very much. Appreciate that. 2302 03:26:18,239 --> 03:26:23,920 Yes. M executive session at the end of the 2303 03:26:21,680 --> 03:26:27,880 meeting. Three commissioners council 2304 03:26:30,080 --> 03:26:38,560 20 minutes. That's all I have. 2305 03:26:34,239 --> 03:26:44,532 » Okay. I don't have anything this time. >> Um the only thing I have 2306 03:26:42,239 --> 03:26:49,040 not I forgot again. [clears throat] Old landfill. 2307 03:26:45,920 --> 03:26:52,399 » Yes. Okay. Are we okay with them hanging that again this year if they if they 2308 03:26:51,279 --> 03:26:55,600 will do it? >> Yeah. Know if they can do it. Might as 2309 03:26:54,239 --> 03:26:59,120 well. I think they sounds like they will. I kind of forgot, but Tommy 2310 03:26:57,279 --> 03:27:02,960 reached out asked if this will get done. If everybody's okay and we'll give him 2311 03:27:00,560 --> 03:27:06,800 the green light. Give who the green light? 2312 03:27:03,279 --> 03:27:10,720 » Oh, Dave Crystal. Crystal >> to like clean it up or 2313 03:27:08,560 --> 03:27:14,560 » they did he once or twice and he's about the only 2314 03:27:12,319 --> 03:27:18,560 person I can find. >> So, 2315 03:27:16,160 --> 03:27:23,600 everybody Okay. Is everybody a motion necessarily for that? No. Okay, 2316 03:27:21,279 --> 03:27:26,160 that's all I had. Um, old business, Lisa, 2317 03:27:24,319 --> 03:27:30,720 » I have no old business. >> Sir, no sir. I think you guys are 2318 03:27:28,239 --> 03:27:34,520 jumping on this. Carl right now. Okay. 2319 03:27:36,640 --> 03:27:42,080 I make a motion to go to the executive session for the period of 20 minutes of 2320 03:27:40,399 --> 03:27:46,760 attorney privilege three commissioners council in regards to mental health. 2321 03:27:43,760 --> 03:27:46,760 Second, 2322 03:27:48,720 --> 03:27:51,720 » third. 2323 03:43:47,680 --> 03:43:50,680 Excuse 2324 03:43:55,920 --> 03:43:58,920 me. 2325 03:44:00,080 --> 03:44:03,319 » My arms. 2326 03:44:04,399 --> 03:44:07,399 » Yeah. 2327 03:44:08,160 --> 03:44:14,880 » All right. Call me back to order. Is there anything you'd like to discuss 2328 03:44:11,439 --> 03:44:22,520 before I move on to future business? I don't have anything. 2329 03:44:17,040 --> 03:44:22,520 Looks like uh 14th July 900 2330 03:44:22,800 --> 03:44:29,840 to discuss budget um 2331 03:44:26,560 --> 03:44:35,920 July 14th we have 10 a.m. public street 2332 03:44:32,239 --> 03:44:39,520 edition. Okay. And then I guess is there a possibility of discussing other budget 2333 03:44:37,680 --> 03:44:41,359 items between micro and >> yes 2334 03:44:40,000 --> 03:44:46,000 » in regular meetings. possibility 9:30 2335 03:44:43,520 --> 03:44:52,720 » a.m. work session to look at budget. >> Look at the budget. Yeah. 2336 03:44:48,560 --> 03:44:57,085 » On the 14th. All right. Anything else? There's no further go. There's no 2337 03:44:55,040 --> 03:44:59,104 further business. [clears throat]