[0:06] My name is Jocelyn Bravo. I am a member of the Humboldt County
[0:10] Superintendent Student Council.
[0:12] I go to Arcata High, and I am currently a senior there.
[0:16] Here we have Charron Blank, who works here at
[0:20] HCOE, and Michael Davis Hughes, the county superintendent.
[0:24] Hello. Good to see you, Jocelyn. Good to see you, Charron.
[0:28] Very good.
[0:30] Would you guys like to explain a little bit about your jobs and what you guys do
[0:33] here at HCOE?
[0:36] Yes. My name is Charron Blank, and I am the learning specialist for
[0:40] equity and inclusion.
[0:42] It's a newer position, and I've been
[0:46] in this role for five years.
[0:49] My name is Michael Davis Hughes. I'm the county superintendent, and each of the
[0:53] 58 counties in California has a county superintendent, and I represent
[0:57] Humboldt County. And my primary responsibility is
[1:01] for the County Office of Education and our
[1:04] 380 employees. And we
[1:08] serve the students in Humboldt County through our own programs, and then
[1:12] also through the 30 school districts and 15 charter
[1:16] schools in Humboldt County. Each district has its own
[1:19] superintendent that is responsible
[1:23] for their district. So even
[1:27] though the county superintendent has oversight,
[1:32] I don't have the authority for the day-to-day
[1:35] operations of any one school or district.
[1:39] So my primary role is one of support.
[1:42] Thank you, guys. So basically, on the student council here at
[1:46] HCOE, we have broken up into groups where we all are
[1:50] assigned
[1:53] kind of like a genre, and my group project is
[1:57] focusing on safety and equity in schools.
[1:59] And so I am here today to ask you guys some questions and
[2:05] hear from some of your guys' experiences.
[2:07] So we can start off with the first question, and it is: Was
[2:11] racism ever an issue at your guys' school?
[2:16] And we're going to hear from you as well, right?
[2:19] Yeah.
[2:19] So all three of us get to share our experiences.
[2:22] So, I think context is
[2:26] important.
[2:28] For those that are hearing this, I'm a
[2:32] 61-year-old Black woman, and
[2:36] I went to school in Phoenix and in Los
[2:39] Angeles. I
[2:43] don't remember racism being an issue in my
[2:47] schools growing up in Los Angeles.
[2:50] It was a very
[2:52] mixed area
[2:54] where I grew up. However, when I was thinking of
[2:58] this podcast, one of the things that I remembered
[3:03] was I was in the fourth grade the first time I was called the
[3:06] N-word at school,
[3:08] and I remember it so distinctly because I didn't know what it
[3:12] meant, but I knew it was bad by the way the person said
[3:16] it.
[3:17] And I went to my mom and I'm like, "Mom, this was said to me.
[3:20] I don't know what it means." And she explained it to me.
[3:24] So,
[3:26] because I grew up in a place with so many people from different
[3:29] backgrounds,
[3:33] I don't really remember
[3:35] any
[3:37] other issues like that, but that distinct one I remember when I
[3:41] was quite young.
[3:43] Michael, how about your experience?
[3:46] Yeah. So I grew up in Wales in the United Kingdom,
[3:50] went to elementary school and secondary school or high
[3:54] school over there, and I also have no
[3:57] recollection of
[4:00] issues around racism
[4:04] and racial remarks. I went to a very small
[4:07] school, so we all knew one another, both in
[4:11] elementary school and in high school.
[4:13] So no, it really was not something that came to my
[4:18] consciousness until much later in life.
[4:23] Interesting. So I grew up here in Humboldt County.
[4:27] I
[4:29] went to Pacific Union growing up, and I went there from TK through eighth
[4:33] grade, and then now I go to Arcata High.
[4:36] I would say,
[4:39] I feel like it was definitely taught
[4:44] and
[4:47] spoken about more. But I have seen
[4:51] certain instances of not
[4:55] necessarily straight racism, but definitely a lot of
[4:58] microaggressions.
[5:00] There was an experience my freshman year at Arcata High,
[5:04] where that's where I learned what microaggression was,
[5:08] because we were basically in the quad of my school,
[5:12] and an adult came over and started
[5:16] basically speaking to me and my friends in a
[5:20] mocking way in Spanish. And so we were just kind of thrown off
[5:23] because
[5:25] it was not just
[5:28] an adult that was an educator, it was
[5:32] an adult who probably should've known better than that.
[5:35] And so we were kind of just like, "Mm.
[5:37] How does he know we speak Spanish?"
[5:40] We were just wondering what he was thinking, and why he would
[5:45] make that assumption. But then we ended up going and talking to
[5:49] a teacher we trusted, and so basically she told us that that probably
[5:53] wasn't very good. And so then we
[5:56] filled out,
[5:58] it's basically a report form that we have at our school that you basically scan,
[6:02] and so basically it takes you through this process
[6:05] whereYou meet with the vice principal, and then
[6:09] they come up with a solution
[6:12] to make you feel most comfortable to receive
[6:16] an apology with. And so,
[6:19] a meeting ended up getting scheduled, and that adult did
[6:23] apologize, and we did make it known how we felt,
[6:27] and how that probably wasn't the best idea
[6:31] for him to do. And so, back to the
[6:34] question, I would say that
[6:38] it's
[6:39] more so microaggressions that I do see pretty often.
[6:44] From what you said, I think,
[6:48] Michael, I wonder if a piece of it, at least for me, of
[6:52] not recognizing it when I was younger is
[6:56] we didn't have the language that we have now.
[6:59] I was probably 40 years old before I heard the term
[7:02] microaggressions. So, I think when you have
[7:06] language for things, you can identify it, and then you can talk
[7:10] about it and engage in conversations with people.
[7:13] But if you don't have language for the thing, it makes it much
[7:18] harder to engage with it.
[7:20] Yeah.
[7:22] It's one of the things I'm so impressed with our students here,
[7:27] is
[7:30] being able to engage in
[7:33] conversations that 10 years ago weren't happening at
[7:37] all. And,
[7:40] it's impressive. It's impressive that our students can
[7:43] identify things and call it out.
[7:46] The bias reporting tool that you're talking about,
[7:50] I was part of the group that was in those conversations when it was being
[7:54] developed
[7:56] in your district. And it's good to hear that it's being
[7:59] used,
[8:01] because that's exactly why it was created, and it was created with
[8:04] students, really taking the lead to make sure that
[8:08] it was effective for your experiences.
[8:12] Yeah. I really think it's being more implemented in classrooms, and
[8:15] it's being more put out there, I guess.
[8:18] Mm-hmm.
[8:18] It's being advertised more. But I really think it's a great tool
[8:22] that kids are finding
[8:25] as a resource.
[8:26] Yeah.
[8:26] Justin, I'm wondering
[8:28] how you felt following that
[8:33] resolution or restoration-
[8:36] Mm-hmm
[8:36] ... how that apology for you and your friends.
[8:40] Did you feel
[8:42] safer
[8:44] within your school knowing that there
[8:48] was accountability for not
[8:51] just students, but for adults?
[8:53] Yeah.
[8:55] So obviously when it did happen, I was like, "I don't know how public
[8:59] schools are putting this out and wanting to be
[9:03] very inclusive and
[9:07] really promoting like, 'Oh, yeah.
[9:10] We should all be friends.' But then we have adults
[9:13] doing this." I think, me and my two other
[9:17] friends did feel like we kind of
[9:21] felt like outsiders a little bit within the school.
[9:23] And we were like, "Well, how is this supposed to make us feel more
[9:27] included?"
[9:29] But I do think that the
[9:32] apology and the accountability the person took really made us feel like
[9:36] we kind of had a voice. It
[9:41] gave us that closure that there's other people who are paying attention and who
[9:44] do care.
[9:47] Part of the conversations when that tool was being
[9:51] developed was students saying that they would have something
[9:55] happen and they might mention it to
[9:59] an administrator or a teacher,
[10:01] but then it would disappear. It's like they never knew what happened, if anything
[10:04] happened.
[10:06] There wasn't any explicit, "This is how this is going to work." And
[10:10] one of the things that tool was supposed to address was to make a really
[10:14] explicit path so that this is where you go when it happens,
[10:18] and these are the steps that are going to take place.
[10:24] Yeah, so people have a place to go and know that it's going to be taken
[10:27] seriously.
[10:28] Mm-hmm.
[10:29] Yeah. And I think your district might be one of the only districts
[10:33] that
[10:34] worked on something like that and has it implemented.
[10:37] Yeah. I think it was developed really nicely because after you do file
[10:41] that incident report, there is a follow-up, and then there's a little
[10:45] questionnaire on how you would like
[10:48] that justice for yourself.
[10:52] Mm-hmm.
[10:55] Honestly, I would say it was a little bit uncomfortable.
[11:00] But it is good to hold people accountable-
[11:03] Mm-hmm
[11:03] ... because that's how people learn from their mistakes.
[11:09] So, I have another question for you guys.
[11:12] I would say, how do you think educators navigate
[11:17] racism?
[11:22] I'm happy to start on that.
[11:26] I think that
[11:27] even as adults, maybe especially as adults,
[11:32] we have a lot to learn about
[11:35] the language around racism and the behaviors around
[11:38] racism. I think that there's a reluctance,
[11:43] as adults, to talk about it,
[11:46] because we don't want to make mistakes, or there's a tendency
[11:50] to avoid conversations where one is
[11:54] afraid to say the wrong thing.
[11:58] And I think one of the most powerful tools to
[12:01] address that is knowledge,
[12:05] information, and learning,
[12:08] so that you
[12:09] can feel that it'sThat it's okay
[12:13] to make mistakes and learn from them.
[12:17] I think the worst thing that we can do as adults, and the worst thing that we can
[12:20] model for students,
[12:22] is to avoid or ignore issues around
[12:26] racism when we see them because we don't feel like we know
[12:30] what to do with them.
[12:32] We have to confront those issues,
[12:35] but what's the right way of doing it?
[12:38] And I think that's where things around professional development or
[12:42] training for adults can be
[12:46] really helpful.
[12:48] I've certainly been
[12:52] informed about situations where there's been an incident in a
[12:56] school,
[12:58] and it was
[13:01] ignored,
[13:02] or steps weren't taken that could've been taken
[13:06] because partially,
[13:08] the person that
[13:12] saw what occurred or heard about what occurred didn't
[13:16] have the tools to be able to address it
[13:20] in a way that they felt comfortable.
[13:23] So,
[13:25] yeah, I think that that's an area that we are continually
[13:29] needing to work on.
[13:33] Could you say the question again, friend?
[13:34] How do you think educators navigate racism?
[13:41] I think,
[13:43] from what I've heard from students,
[13:46] is that what they need is adults to
[13:50] interrupt it, to say something.
[13:54] And what I've found
[13:56] in
[13:58] my time working with educators is that there tends to be a
[14:01] real
[14:03] fear around doing it wrong.
[14:08] And
[14:11] we forget, I think, as adults, when we do something
[14:14] new, it's going to be messy.
[14:17] Learning is messy. When you learn something new, it's messy.
[14:21] It's part of the definition of learning.
[14:24] And I think having
[14:28] a realization that it's more important to take
[14:31] action than to wait to do it extremely
[14:34] well, it's more important to interrupt behavior that
[14:38] is harmful to students in the moment than to do it
[14:42] well, is important. That's what
[14:46] students constantly tell me and what I hear.
[14:50] And
[14:52] I think, as adults, we
[14:55] need to
[14:57] be comfortable and find our way of
[15:01] doing things messy.
[15:04] Saying, "It's like this is the first time I've done this, so
[15:08] yes, it could've been better, and it's more important that I actually take action,"
[15:13] that's really important.
[15:15] So, just interrupting it, saying, "Nope.
[15:18] We're not doing that here. We're not doing that in front of me.
[15:20] We don't talk to people that way." It's like whatever language you have, use what
[15:24] you have, and then
[15:27] you can always learn more and do it better, but just start where you
[15:30] start. I think that's important.
[15:33] Yeah.
[15:33] And I think also that, as adults, understanding
[15:37] impact to the individual who is feeling
[15:41] this way-
[15:42] Yeah
[15:42] ... rather than how you're feeling about it, because your experience is going to be
[15:46] very different-
[15:47] Mm-hmm
[15:47] ... than the experience of the person who it has impacted.
[15:52] So, having
[15:53] that viewpoint of right, these may not be words
[15:57] that are hurtful to me or that I think
[16:02] should be hurtful to the person that heard them, or it was directed
[16:06] towards, but it's not about me as an adult.
[16:09] It's about the impact to that student and
[16:12] how they received it.
[16:15] And we need to help them from that perspective, not from our perspective.
[16:20] I think that's a very good mindset that every teacher should have.
[16:24] But I think as a student, I think
[16:26] it really depends on the educator
[16:30] and how they navigate it. There's definitely teachers who
[16:35] feel more
[16:39] strongly
[16:40] connected to that because of maybe their ethnicity.
[16:43] I do have a really great Spanish teacher,
[16:48] who if she sees something, she will
[16:51] call it out really quickly and make those kids feel
[16:55] protected in a way.
[16:58] But I do see how there are some educators who
[17:02] are maybe afraid to do something wrong and who maybe just,
[17:07] I don't want to say sweep it under the rug, but kind of want to avoid
[17:10] it. But I do think it really depends
[17:14] on who and how they're navigating it.
[17:17] Mm-hmm.
[17:17] Yeah.
[17:20] Do you guys think there are any repercussions
[17:24] with racism in schools?
[17:29] Do you mean in terms of accountability or
[17:32] consequences for
[17:35] individuals that are displaying
[17:39] racism?
[17:40] Yes.
[17:41] Okay.
[17:43] Because there's no doubt that there are implications
[17:47] when racist actions or words
[17:50] are used. But as far as consequences,
[17:55] Sharron, what have you experienced in working with the schools that you
[17:59] work with in your role?
[18:01] There's a range of experiences.
[18:06] I think that the reporting
[18:09] tool that your district uses is really helpful because
[18:13] it collects the
[18:14] informationAnd I think
[18:18] that's really important, having a record of what's occurring and if it's occurring
[18:22] more or less. If it's occurring in certain places
[18:26] or times of day, that kind of data is really helpful.
[18:29] I think there are things that we can do that would make it
[18:33] better, and I think there's lots of layers to it.
[18:37] Mm-hmm.
[18:37] When I talk to
[18:41] schools about,
[18:44] say, the use of the N word, one of the things I bring up is
[18:48] the curriculum, and it's like, well, when do you talk about
[18:52] Black people other than February and Dr.
[18:56] King's birthday? The more we can
[19:00] bring the fullness of human beings into the curriculum and into our
[19:03] day-to-day education,
[19:06] I think that decreases the likelihood that that would be
[19:09] accepted. It's like the environment isn't accepting
[19:13] that kind of language and behavior.
[19:16] I think that really focusing on what we
[19:20] do as adults first is really important,
[19:24] and then
[19:26] us as adults and how we treat each other, how we behave, the curriculum we
[19:30] use,
[19:32] how we speak about people and groups of people, and then
[19:37] support students, I think is the direction to go.
[19:40] I think we're really quick to correct students
[19:43] before really addressing what we adults have more control
[19:47] over.
[19:51] I think that in regard to repercussions, the first
[19:54] thing that may come to mind is consequences,
[19:59] for students, what discipline might be for that.
[20:04] And I think there's been a
[20:05] needed emphasis over the past decade
[20:08] on if someone is harmed, how do
[20:12] you repair the harm and restore the relationship,
[20:16] not just
[20:19] how you're going to be punished for doing the wrong thing, right?
[20:22] Because that has consequences for the person who's
[20:26] receiving the punishment,
[20:28] but it does nothing to repair the harm that was
[20:31] done. And I think that the
[20:35] training and the
[20:38] involvement of students and adults in
[20:42] restorative practices when harm is done
[20:46] is a very positive thing in terms of
[20:50] relationship building and maintaining.
[20:53] Mm-hmm. Yeah. I do feel
[20:57] students in our school do feel like there aren't
[21:01] enough repercussions in situations like this, and I think that that's why
[21:05] they don't feel like anything really happens if they do
[21:09] report it. But I think Arcata High and
[21:13] McKinleyville High do a very good job with that because like Michael said,
[21:17] it focuses more on how we can address the
[21:21] situation and all aspects of it, not just
[21:26] what punishment whoever's in the wrong will receive.
[21:31] How would you guys describe your high school experience
[21:35] as your ethnicity?
[21:43] I grew up in LA. I went to
[21:46] LA High, and I graduated from Immaculate Heart,
[21:50] and
[21:52] I hung out with a bunch of other Black girls, and it
[21:56] was great.
[21:58] It was really great.
[22:02] Well, I did not hang out with a group of-
[22:05] Bunch of Black girls?
[22:07] ... Black girls.
[22:07] In Wales?
[22:09] In Wales.
[22:09] That would be a different story, Michael.
[22:14] However, I share the experience of my school
[22:18] experience was great, and I think it was because of the relationships that I
[22:22] had with my peers. The students that I went to
[22:26] school with all the way from elementary, kindergarten, all the way through
[22:30] 12th grade, I
[22:31] became the person I am because of the relationships with them.
[22:36] We leaned on one another. We learned from one another.
[22:39] I
[22:42] look back on it now, and I'm just so grateful. Yeah. It was fantastic.
[22:46] Yeah. I would say my experience was really good.
[22:49] I think
[22:52] my
[22:53] elementary school definitely tied into kind of my
[22:57] childhood,
[22:58] because we did really all grow up together since Pacific Union is
[23:02] a K through
[23:04] eighth.
[23:07] I would say
[23:09] as a Hispanic,
[23:12] I would say that I think I had a very good experience because
[23:15] that school has a lot of diversity.
[23:18] You do get kids of all backgrounds.
[23:23] It's also just a very inclusive school.
[23:27] I felt very welcomed.
[23:29] And I do feel like
[23:33] that could have been the best school for me because there's so much to
[23:37] do, and there's just so
[23:40] much you can get involved in with all of your
[23:43] peers. I would say
[23:45] my experience was definitely good.
[23:47] That's good to hear.
[23:50] And I think that concludes our questions for today. Mm-hmm.
[23:54] Thank you guys, Sharone and Michael Davies-Hughes, for
[23:58] taking the time to be here today. I want to say that
[24:02] I'm very grateful for the opportunity to not only be
[24:05] here filming this podcast and
[24:10] hearing from your guys' experience,
[24:13] but
[24:14] also very grateful that I get to be a part of the
[24:18] Humboldt County Superintendent Student Council because it really gives me an
[24:22] opportunity to
[24:25] advocate and speak up and address some of the issues that are going on
[24:29] within our schools.
[24:32] And yeah, I'm just very happy to be on
[24:36] the student council for my second year now.
[24:41] We're very happy to have you.
[24:43] And your colleagues, your-
[24:46] Yeah ... other fellow students. Yeah.
[24:47] I think we have a really good team and
[24:51] group of students from all of the
[24:55] different schools and even including the charters.
[24:58] I think that we have a very good student council
[25:02] with lots of input.
[25:04] Beautiful.
[25:06] That was the idea.