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All right, it's 7 o'clock, so we'll call

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the meeting to order. Um, so first we'll

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start with the pledge of allegiance.

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Thank you, Ken, for rescuing the flag.

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To the flag of the United States of

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America and to the republic for it

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stands one nation underyice

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for all.

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» Thank you everyone. Uh so we have no one

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here for public comment so we'll just

11
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move on. Um one thing I was going to

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just say to the board is um we do have a

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pretty packed agenda today. Um, so just

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sort of in the spirit of trying to keep

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things moving along and making sure

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everyone has a chance to speak. Just a

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reminder to um try to run all questions

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through me first. Um, we'll try to keep

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this as efficient as possible. Um, so

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the first item uh was supposed to be a

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presentation by Cornerstone Financial um

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on the trust and the investments and the

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strategy. Um, so unfortunately they were

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not able to present tonight. Um I had a

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conversation with um uh Greg Miner

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earlier in the week and Cornerstone on

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their end made some changes to their

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compliance standards and because of

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those changes because this meeting is

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televised this is now considered a

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advertisement um which means that his

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presentation would need to get reviewed

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by their compliance team which takes two

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weeks and he just found this out earlier

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in the week. So nonetheless the last

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they won't be able to present tonight.

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Um given that it has been a while since

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they presented I think one of the um

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options we discussed if people are okay

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with this would be to have cornerstone

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present at some point in July or August

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when we're not meeting present to the

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investment committee of the board so we

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can sort of get an update on the fund

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talk about investment strategy things

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like that and then we can report back to

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the full board for a discussion in

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September. Um, do you folks I don't know

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if we have to vote on that, but just

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wanted to see if folks feel okay with

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that course of action.

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» Okay.

53
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>> Would it be okay if I just attended only

54
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because I have no clue about it?

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>> So,

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>> or does that throw off the quorum idea

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or the

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>> I think we'd have to check. Um, so let

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>> just let me know. Otherwise, that's

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fine.

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>> Yeah. I mean, and we could one option

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too would be to have a meeting over the

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summer then have them come back in

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September. I think Greg's perspective

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was he just didn't want to wait until

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September um just because it has been

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like I haven't heard a presentation

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since I've been on the board. So that

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could be an option too is that we have

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the meeting and then we can have a more

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focused presentation for September. So

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maybe that's the best course. Donna,

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>> but one thing I can add to that because

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I think what we wanted to do after his

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presentation was see about reinvesting

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our money or going with their

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recommendation.

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>> We won't be able to vote on it until

79
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September anyways, right? So maybe it

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wouldn't matter if you waited till

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September because you'd have the

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information, but we couldn't vote until

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we had a meeting.

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>> That's true.

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>> Just throwing that back out.

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>> Yeah,

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>> I'm okay with whatever we choose to do,

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but it really doesn't matter if he comes

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now or comes in September.

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>> Okay. Um I can I can speak to Greg again

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and just sort of get his thoughts on

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what he thinks might be most effective

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as well.

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>> Any other thoughts on that topic?

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>> Sure.

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>> So I'm sorry. What he's saying that

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because we public now because it's

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televised.

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>> Yeah. So from from their perspective, it

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could be viewed as advertising

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cornerstone financial services. So and

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because they're a regulated industry,

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anything that's an advertisement needs

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to be approved to make sure the

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messaging is correct. So, um, what he

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basically said was, um, but what would

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be ideal for him is if we could provide

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him a list of questions two weeks before

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the full presentation, which would be in

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September, and then he would prepare

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answers based on that and could get that

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reviewed by the compliance team, which I

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told him that would be fine.

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>> Okay.

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» Questions in advance, maybe it makes

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sense to have that meeting July.

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>> That's what I was thinking.

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Have an

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initial conversation to sort of

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keep the scope narrow and focused and

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then we could put a call out to the rest

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of the board for additional questions.

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>> Yeah.

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>> That way that way we're making the best

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use of his time in that September

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meeting.

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>> Yeah.

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>> So,

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>> yeah. I mean, if I'm correct, you can

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communicate outward to the board your

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takeaways from a meeting like that as

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long as we don't have a back and forth

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discussion. You can like share with the

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greater board kind of what the overall

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recommendation would be so that we can

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be efficient in our conversation about

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it at the next meeting.

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>> Okay. and Ellen. Um, if you wanted to

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get monthly statements, you you can we

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can set we can uh that there's um a

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contact that we can have and you can get

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updates of every month of what

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>> I don't think I need.

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>> Okay, I DON'T NEED ALL THAT. I JUST WANT

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to know over like just because I'm new.

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But thank you.

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>> But you don't want more emails.

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>> I don't need more. I just want a good

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feeling for an idea of what what it all

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is. Yeah.

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>> Okay. Well, I will. Any other thoughts,

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Mike?

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Okay. Um, so yeah, so I I'll connect

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with Greg and then I'll connect with all

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of you and share the next steps. Um, so

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we'll move on to vote to approve the

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minutes of the May 2020 20 May 20, 2026

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meeting, which thank you to Julian. I

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know there were some updates that were

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sent out. So did everyone have a chance

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to review those updates? And I did did

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include the new minutes separately in

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your folders and everybody's folders so

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that there was no confusion of which

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minutes in case you printed out the old

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packet yourself.

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>> Um, so can we have a motion to approve

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the minutes from May 20th?

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>> So moved.

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>> Second. Okay.

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>> Would have been in this.

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>> All those in favor of approving the

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minutes from May 20th.

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>> I I opposed.

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Okay.

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>> Nice and easy.

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I'll just remind people to make sure

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you're speaking into your microphones.

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>> Thank you.

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>> Um so now we'll move on to the trustes

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reports. Um from my position the chair

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was really just that update around um

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cornerstone financial. Um so we move on

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to the treasures report.

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>> Sure. U so I have reached out to I have

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reached out to Greg. Um so he has my

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information. So, I think that process is

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moving forward. In terms of just the

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transition uh as treasurer, I will reach

190
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out with Jenny who is um the accountant.

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I'm scheduled to meet up with her next

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week. So, we'll see. Hopefully, that'll

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be fine. And then I do have the the data

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that I sent you already, Julie. I'll

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just read it out loud. It's

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>> beginning balance of 73734,845.

197
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15

198
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zero on deposits. Income of $9932

199
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withdrawal of 15,000

200
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expenses zero change in value 23,230

201
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237.44

202
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ending balance of 744,076.2.

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And can I get a motion to approve the

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treasur's report?

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>> So moved.

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>> I have a second.

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>> Second.

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>> Any discussion?

209
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>> All right. All those in favor of

210
00:17:02,959 --> 00:17:06,319
approving the treasures report.

211
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>> Any opposed?

212
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>> All right. Making this easy so far.

213
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Great job. Thanks. Yeah.

214
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>> Zipping through.

215
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>> Um, okay. Friends of the library update.

216
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>> Um, so they did not have a meeting uh

217
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this month because of the book sale.

218
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basically, which is happening right now.

219
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So, if you haven't been to the book

220
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sale, you still have tomorrow's

221
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Thursday, Thursday, Friday, and Saturday

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until 2 PM to uh go by the book sale. Uh

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they had an opening night last night,

224
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preview night, um that I checked in on,

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and they had um like a good number of

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people, a lot of book sellers will show

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up to that first one and like grab boxes

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of books. Um but they said this morning

229
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was even busier than it was last night.

230
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So, um so they feel like they're they're

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doing really well. So that's uh that's

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great. Um and you know a little tech

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glitch glitch here or there but

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otherwise uh that's all that's all I

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have for right now um because they have

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not otherwise met. So

237
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>> excellent.

238
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>> Nice and easy.

239
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>> Um

240
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>> I will I will say I was just there

241
00:18:09,120 --> 00:18:10,640
before this meeting. They do have a lot

242
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of Elvis books. So if you like Elvis for

243
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some reason they have a lot of Elvis

244
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books.

245
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>> Interesting.

246
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>> Did you purchase any?

247
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>> I did not.

248
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I know.

249
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>> Yeah. Somebody somebody's uh it was

250
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either their father or grandfather or

251
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something had this giant collection and

252
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they donated the whole whole collection

253
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of Elvis items, books and all sorts of

254
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things. So they're like, "Do you want

255
00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:35,200
Elvis things?" No,

256
00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:37,840
>> nothing against the gentleman who does

257
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the Elvis um impersonation at the Falcon

258
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Fest event. He's always there and he's

259
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very good.

260
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>> I know.

261
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>> Very good. Well, um

262
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>> I'll see if I

263
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>> That's right. Yeah.

264
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>> reach out to someone at Falcon

265
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>> if anybody Yeah. before before Saturday.

266
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Um what they do at the end of the sale

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is um they contract with they there's

268
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like various companies that are willing

269
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to pick up books because they're free to

270
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them and then they do whatever they do

271
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with them. So I think it's I want to say

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it's called Bayate Books, but I could be

273
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wrong. Um but they'll be coming like

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right at two o'clock on Saturday and

275
00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:12,960
we'll scoop up everything that's left

276
00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:16,720
over. So, so the revel impersonator

277
00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:18,559
wants to know anything before then, let

278
00:19:18,559 --> 00:19:21,280
me know and uh I'll I'll make sure they

279
00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:23,840
save the Elvis books for him. Maybe he'd

280
00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:25,280
want them. Maybe he's like, "Please

281
00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:27,120
know.

282
00:19:27,120 --> 00:19:29,120
Maybe already has plenty of them."

283
00:19:29,120 --> 00:19:31,039
>> So, we'll keep it rolling with Noel into

284
00:19:31,039 --> 00:19:32,160
the director's report.

285
00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:33,039
>> Uh indeed,

286
00:19:33,039 --> 00:19:34,880
>> which we all should have received or you

287
00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:35,679
all should have received.

288
00:19:35,679 --> 00:19:38,080
>> Should be should be in your packet. Um,

289
00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:40,799
and I'll I'll keep things brief, but

290
00:19:40,799 --> 00:19:43,440
I'll first just ask if anybody has any

291
00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:45,039
comments or questions about what I wrote

292
00:19:45,039 --> 00:19:46,320
in my report, and then I just have a few

293
00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:46,880
extra notes.

294
00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:47,600
>> Yeah.

295
00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:48,559
>> Go Julie.

296
00:19:48,559 --> 00:19:53,360
Um, I was very interested to

297
00:19:53,360 --> 00:19:56,400
um read about the archives won an uh

298
00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:57,360
auction.

299
00:19:57,360 --> 00:19:58,160
>> Yes.

300
00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:01,600
>> And um, you know, it it's amazing. It

301
00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:03,440
sounds amazing.

302
00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:05,280
>> Uh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I've not seen

303
00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:08,400
any of these. I think he has them now.

304
00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:09,760
It's a it's a tricky thing with the

305
00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:10,960
auctions because, you know, they want

306
00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:12,559
payment like right away and it's like

307
00:20:12,559 --> 00:20:15,440
kind of very very tense. Um but and I

308
00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:17,039
think the price went up higher than he

309
00:20:17,039 --> 00:20:20,799
wanted it to go uh for it. But um but

310
00:20:20,799 --> 00:20:23,600
yeah, it's a it's I mean we do have um

311
00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:25,760
one of the largest collections I guess

312
00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:29,280
of anything of Samuel Holton. So um it's

313
00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:32,159
a real coup to be able to have you know

314
00:20:32,159 --> 00:20:34,480
add to that collection.

315
00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:39,919
And and the other thing is this um

316
00:20:39,919 --> 00:20:41,919
viewing of the two declaration of

317
00:20:41,919 --> 00:20:43,440
independence.

318
00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:44,559
>> Yes.

319
00:20:44,559 --> 00:20:46,159
>> Yeah. I definitely will be there for

320
00:20:46,159 --> 00:20:46,960
that.

321
00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:48,640
>> Yeah. We originally they were

322
00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:51,039
considering um having it happen with the

323
00:20:51,039 --> 00:20:54,000
annual Fourth of July reading of the

324
00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:56,240
declaration, but we thought that that

325
00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:57,919
would end up being too limiting. Like

326
00:20:57,919 --> 00:20:59,120
there's not that many people who

327
00:20:59,120 --> 00:21:01,039
actually go to that um and not that many

328
00:21:01,039 --> 00:21:02,880
people would see it. So, uh Richard and

329
00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:05,200
I discussed Yeah. moving it to being

330
00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:06,480
like that first. So that's the first

331
00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:09,600
night of the concerts as well. Um and so

332
00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:12,320
I did contact uh the the Danvers Police

333
00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:14,720
Department about getting a detail

334
00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:17,280
officer for that as well. Um since those

335
00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:20,240
are both very valuable documents that we

336
00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:23,440
have. Um not not that many places have

337
00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:26,559
declarations. So um yeah, but that

338
00:21:26,559 --> 00:21:27,760
should be cool. I think that's I think

339
00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:29,200
that's great and I hope a lot of people

340
00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:31,520
go into popping to see it. So

341
00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:33,520
>> are there from the cost perspective is

342
00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:35,760
there like additional costs that like

343
00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:37,600
were not covered in the bud budget or is

344
00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:38,480
there any

345
00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:41,200
>> in regards to the or the

346
00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:43,679
>> for the broad size is the cost just is

347
00:21:43,679 --> 00:21:45,600
it just just for the details

348
00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:47,520
>> yeah it's just for the details yeah like

349
00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:50,320
um yeah and and that's you know I I

350
00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:51,679
don't think there's probably a real

351
00:21:51,679 --> 00:21:53,760
threat but you never know right you

352
00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:55,120
never know where people might yeah

353
00:21:55,120 --> 00:21:56,480
better to be safe so that's yeah that's

354
00:21:56,480 --> 00:21:57,600
the only

355
00:21:57,600 --> 00:21:59,280
>> the only thing

356
00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:01,520
>> um that Yeah. And he's Yeah. hoping to

357
00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:04,720
have like the the alarm company come and

358
00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:06,559
um maybe another person or two,

359
00:22:06,559 --> 00:22:10,080
whatever, to do an honor guard kind of situation.

360
00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:11,120
>> That would be nice.

361
00:22:11,120 --> 00:22:12,799
>> Yeah. Yeah. They did that um for the

362
00:22:12,799 --> 00:22:15,679
archives um for hisif the 50th

363
00:22:15,679 --> 00:22:17,039
anniversary of the archives. Like they

364
00:22:17,039 --> 00:22:18,480
had that honor guard as well.

365
00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:19,919
>> They could have shoot their guns on it.

366
00:22:19,919 --> 00:22:22,000
>> I hope not.

367
00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:23,039
>> Especially since they're inside the

368
00:22:23,039 --> 00:22:26,080
building. So, please don't.

369
00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:28,400
>> How much was how much did uh was spent

370
00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:31,039
at the auction?

371
00:22:31,039 --> 00:22:33,840
It was a lot. It was um I don't have the

372
00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:35,520
exact number in my head. I want to say

373
00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:38,799
it was around $20,000 though. Yeah.

374
00:22:38,799 --> 00:22:41,840
Right. Right around there.

375
00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:44,559
>> Um one number um under the archives

376
00:22:44,559 --> 00:22:46,880
report the second item which I found

377
00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:49,440
rather interesting that the American

378
00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:51,760
Revolution would apply for a grant

379
00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:54,480
>> in order to further preserve the Holton

380
00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:57,200
Homestead. Do we actually have a copy of

381
00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:01,120
the letter that the D are sent to the

382
00:23:01,120 --> 00:23:02,559
historic preservation. I'd like to read

383
00:23:02,559 --> 00:23:04,400
that because that seems as though to me

384
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:07,840
like a rather important thing for us to zero in on.

385
00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:11,440
>> Um I do not know. I'm sure Richard does.

386
00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:13,760
Like I'm sure he probably has a copy of

387
00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:16,240
whatever they they submitted. I'm sure.

388
00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:18,400
So um we can we can apply to him for

389
00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:18,640
that.

390
00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:19,520
>> Would you would you mind doing

391
00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:20,960
>> Yeah. Yeah. Let me write myself a note.

392
00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:22,480
>> Thank you very much.

393
00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:23,200
>> All right.

394
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:25,039
>> I'm sorry, Charles. That was a letter

395
00:23:25,039 --> 00:23:25,760
that was

396
00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:27,120
>> Yeah. The Daughters of the American

397
00:23:27,120 --> 00:23:29,600
Revolution applied to the Massachusetts

398
00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:32,159
Historic Association for an emergency

399
00:23:32,159 --> 00:23:35,039
grant to further restore the Holton

400
00:23:35,039 --> 00:23:37,600
Homestead Home here in Danvers. And

401
00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:39,200
Richard wrote a letter in support of

402
00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:41,440
their applications. So, I'm interested

403
00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:44,880
in seeing specifically what the D said

404
00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:48,400
about the condition of the home and

405
00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:50,000
maybe that's something that we as a

406
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:52,960
group might want to further support in

407
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:55,679
some way. I I don't know because This is

408
00:23:55,679 --> 00:23:57,360
the first I've actually heard about it.

409
00:23:57,360 --> 00:23:58,480
>> Yeah. I didn't know anything about it

410
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:00,640
either until he he looped me in on it,

411
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:02,559
so I was like, "Oh,

412
00:24:02,559 --> 00:24:05,919
you never know." Um, yeah. So, I'll see what there is. I don't know

413
00:24:05,919 --> 00:24:07,520
what there is, but I'll see.

414
00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:08,159
>> Appreciate it.

415
00:24:08,159 --> 00:24:10,000
>> Of course.

416
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:11,760
>> Any other questions for Noel about the

417
00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:12,320
report?

418
00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:14,880
>> Yes, I do, Mr. Chairman. Uh, on the

419
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:16,720
everything else about the hate speech

420
00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:19,679
message discovered by the teen room week

421
00:24:19,679 --> 00:24:22,559
of June 1st, you were on vacation, but

422
00:24:22,559 --> 00:24:24,720
you notified Tim McD. Do you know if the

423
00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:26,400
police filed a report or was it just a

424
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:27,600
call to the police or

425
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:29,919
>> uh No, they f they came and filed the

426
00:24:29,919 --> 00:24:31,520
report because we I I wanted it to make

427
00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:32,159
sure it was on record.

428
00:24:32,159 --> 00:24:33,840
>> What type of message was it? Can you

429
00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:37,039
elaborate without um causing any issues

430
00:24:37,039 --> 00:24:37,919
on the air?

431
00:24:37,919 --> 00:24:39,279
>> Uh

432
00:24:39,279 --> 00:24:40,240
>> it was not nice.

433
00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:42,559
It was a I hate a

434
00:24:42,559 --> 00:24:43,279
particular

435
00:24:43,279 --> 00:24:45,360
>> Was it a race race or

436
00:24:45,360 --> 00:24:47,760
>> Yes, it was a racial racial slur.

437
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:49,760
>> Racial and gender and stuff like that.

438
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:51,919
>> Yes, it was a racial slur.

439
00:24:51,919 --> 00:24:53,200
>> Yes.

440
00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:55,039
And you're receiving multiple posts on

441
00:24:55,039 --> 00:24:56,720
what on the um

442
00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:58,799
>> so we we have on our social media we

443
00:24:58,799 --> 00:25:00,799
have multiple posts especially last last

444
00:25:00,799 --> 00:25:02,880
week that were uh either talking about

445
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:05,360
the upcoming pride events or uh we have

446
00:25:05,360 --> 00:25:08,559
a pride uh book I have a we have a

447
00:25:08,559 --> 00:25:10,400
display out in the lobby right now and a

448
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:12,000
book list and everything. So you know

449
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:13,600
people

450
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:15,840
make derogatory comments about things.

451
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:18,000
It's really just a few people. It's like

452
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:19,360
you see the same people.

453
00:25:19,360 --> 00:25:20,400
>> Well, actually, I have a question

454
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:22,720
because I think there's a typo in the um

455
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:25,760
>> Yeah, there is a made mostly by

456
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:28,080
>> redacted. I was just gonna say by the

457
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:30,000
same few people was what I meant to say.

458
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:31,919
Apparently, I stopped typing.

459
00:25:31,919 --> 00:25:32,480
>> There.

460
00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:34,720
>> So, just like a couple of people making

461
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:35,600
lots of comments.

462
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:36,799
>> Yes, it was a couple of people making

463
00:25:36,799 --> 00:25:37,279
many.

464
00:25:37,279 --> 00:25:38,720
>> Yes, I received one of those.

465
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:39,520
>> Yeah. Yeah.

466
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:40,320
>> Yeah.

467
00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:41,120
>> Really?

468
00:25:41,120 --> 00:25:43,440
>> It could be anybody really false name.

469
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:43,919
Yeah.

470
00:25:43,919 --> 00:25:46,960
>> Yeah. It was I think it was a um like

471
00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:48,559
Yeah. No, it definitely wasn't a real

472
00:25:48,559 --> 00:25:51,919
name. I said that the Pride Party is my

473
00:25:51,919 --> 00:25:54,559
favorite day in Danverse and I was

474
00:25:54,559 --> 00:25:55,840
called a slur.

475
00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:56,240
>> Yeah.

476
00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:58,240
>> And it took almost a week before

477
00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:00,000
Facebook removed it.

478
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:01,679
>> Yeah. The because that was on the town

479
00:26:01,679 --> 00:26:02,960
one. Was that on the town's post?

480
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:04,240
>> It may have been on the town's post or

481
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:05,520
the library's post. I don't remember.

482
00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:06,960
>> Forget which one. But yeah.

483
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:11,120
>> Yeah. Yeah. People are swell sometimes.

484
00:26:11,120 --> 00:26:13,039
But I thought it was, you know, I'm glad

485
00:26:13,039 --> 00:26:15,600
it was noted here that the library does

486
00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:18,320
not respond,

487
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:21,200
etc. So, just if people were wondering

488
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:23,039
why, you know, there was any sort of

489
00:26:23,039 --> 00:26:24,320
That's because that's why,

490
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:26,080
>> right? Yeah, that's part of the overall

491
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:28,240
time policy as well as to not respond to

492
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:31,360
the comments. Um, and I I do have some

493
00:26:31,360 --> 00:26:33,200
staff who, you know, were kind of like,

494
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:34,640
is there a way for us to respond? And

495
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:36,720
I'm like, that just gives them more

496
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:39,120
fire, right? Fuel to the fire.

497
00:26:39,120 --> 00:26:41,039
I would just like to say continuing to

498
00:26:41,039 --> 00:26:43,440
have what you have is enough response.

499
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:44,159
>> Yeah. Right.

500
00:26:44,159 --> 00:26:45,039
>> That's Yeah.

501
00:26:45,039 --> 00:26:48,799
>> Yes. Yes. Yes. It's like you don't have

502
00:26:48,799 --> 00:26:50,960
to like it. It's okay. Don't come.

503
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:51,600
That's fine.

504
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:52,799
>> Don't show up. That is your right.

505
00:26:52,799 --> 00:26:54,799
>> That is your right. It's fine. That's

506
00:26:54,799 --> 00:26:57,440
fine. Library is for all the people.

507
00:26:57,440 --> 00:26:59,360
Whichever way they feel.

508
00:26:59,360 --> 00:27:01,360
>> Uh any any other comments about the

509
00:27:01,360 --> 00:27:02,640
report? And then I just have a couple

510
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:06,320
things. Nothing. All right. Um, so the

511
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:08,559
just the other couple things I'll just

512
00:27:08,559 --> 00:27:10,880
mention. So I know we talked briefly

513
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:13,200
about um the threat to the Marblehead

514
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:14,320
Library that they were looking at

515
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:16,240
getting slashed in half, but they did

516
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:17,919
fully pass their top tier of their

517
00:27:17,919 --> 00:27:20,240
override. So they will be fully funded

518
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:22,880
again. So yay. Um, so that was good. We

519
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:24,960
don't have to vote to say we're not

520
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:31,919
going to serve my head. Uh, so that's really wonderful. Um, and then

521
00:27:31,919 --> 00:27:32,559
oh my gosh,

522
00:27:32,559 --> 00:27:34,159
>> that's the great news. Yeah, it's it's

523
00:27:34,159 --> 00:27:36,159
really it's really really really really

524
00:27:36,159 --> 00:27:38,159
good news. Um, and we did have and I

525
00:27:38,159 --> 00:27:39,760
know I put my report already that we

526
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:43,279
were having um Shannon Phelin who did

527
00:27:43,279 --> 00:27:46,159
get uh our position of assistant head of

528
00:27:46,159 --> 00:27:47,919
reference and she did get to start

529
00:27:47,919 --> 00:27:49,200
yesterday all her paperwork went

530
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:51,840
through. So, yay. That's wonderful, too.

531
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:53,279
We're very happy to have her on board

532
00:27:53,279 --> 00:27:57,360
full-time. She's quite lovely um as a as

533
00:27:57,360 --> 00:27:59,919
a worker. And I was like, what was the

534
00:27:59,919 --> 00:28:01,039
other thing I was going to say? I think

535
00:28:01,039 --> 00:28:02,799
I said all my things already. Oh, wait.

536
00:28:02,799 --> 00:28:04,240
Oh, the other thing I said was uh so

537
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:06,720
today I actually met this afternoon with

538
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:08,000
um Heather Bachmann from the

539
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:09,200
Massachusetts Board of Library

540
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:11,840
Commissioners uh to talk about the

541
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:15,279
process of applying for the state

542
00:28:15,279 --> 00:28:17,120
construction grants if we want to move

543
00:28:17,120 --> 00:28:19,679
forward with renovation of the library.

544
00:28:19,679 --> 00:28:21,840
Um so that was really I showed her the

545
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:23,200
building and that was very informative.

546
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:25,760
So she kind of gave me what the process

547
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:29,200
looks like. Um it is a very long

548
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:31,120
process. Um they do walk you through

549
00:28:31,120 --> 00:28:33,840
every single step of the way and as she

550
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:35,039
was saying, there's really nothing to do

551
00:28:35,039 --> 00:28:37,039
right now. Uh they because they they

552
00:28:37,039 --> 00:28:40,159
only do the grant rounds every so often.

553
00:28:40,159 --> 00:28:42,240
So they're looking to do another grant

554
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:44,559
round um to be begin applying for

555
00:28:44,559 --> 00:28:48,480
another grant round, probably in FY27,

556
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:50,799
maybe FY28. So it's another year, year

557
00:28:50,799 --> 00:28:53,760
and a half out before you can apply.

558
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:55,520
and she's like, "They don't want you to

559
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:58,960
do basically any pre-work until you

560
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:00,799
actually do the they have like a list of

561
00:29:00,799 --> 00:29:01,919
things you need to do and they want you

562
00:29:01,919 --> 00:29:03,679
to do it as up to date, you know, as

563
00:29:03,679 --> 00:29:06,640
possible." Um, so,

564
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:09,200
uh, and if we don't apply this round, so

565
00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:10,720
even if we apply, it's it's about a

566
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:14,880
six-year process, like if we get they approve our application,

567
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:16,240
everything, it's like a six-year process

568
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:17,760
before you're talking about having a

569
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:20,880
building at least. Um, and there's a lot

570
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:23,120
of steps in between there. So, uh, if we

571
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:25,600
don't apply in the next upcoming grant

572
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:27,120
round, then it'll probably be about five

573
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:29,360
years before we can apply again. So,

574
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:31,679
>> so 11 years to

575
00:29:31,679 --> 00:29:33,679
>> So, yeah. Yeah. Well, so yeah. Well, so

576
00:29:33,679 --> 00:29:34,640
if we

577
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:36,960
>> Yeah. So, yeah. So, it would be about

578
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:40,480
seven years from now that we could apply

579
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:42,159
for if we didn't if we don't try to

580
00:29:42,159 --> 00:29:43,679
apply for this grant round,

581
00:29:43,679 --> 00:29:45,520
>> then it'd be like seven years before we

582
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:46,000
can apply.

583
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:47,360
>> And then it's a six-year process.

584
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:49,039
Yeah.

585
00:29:49,039 --> 00:29:50,960
>> And this would be for renovation. This

586
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:53,600
would be for renovation. Um the uh thing

587
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:55,520
that she did mention was that they do

588
00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:59,279
ask for you to have two sites. So she

589
00:29:59,279 --> 00:30:01,440
like you can have your site but they do

590
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:03,760
want you to have a backup site whether

591
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:05,760
that's another building or whether

592
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:08,399
that's a plot of land

593
00:30:08,399 --> 00:30:11,360
>> um just in case you know one thing

594
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:13,440
doesn't become feasible. So you have

595
00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:14,640
that's a whole another thing to figure

596
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:18,159
out. So like I don't know. Um

597
00:30:18,159 --> 00:30:20,240
>> um are there costs associated like with

598
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:21,760
just the application?

599
00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:24,640
>> Just the application itself? No. But uh

600
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:26,159
but there there's there's a lot of

601
00:30:26,159 --> 00:30:27,600
pieces and like one of the one of the

602
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:29,440
costs that would end up coming through

603
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:32,559
it um would be that you do have to get a

604
00:30:32,559 --> 00:30:35,200
study done of the building and just like

605
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:37,200
basically the condition it's a

606
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:38,559
conditions

607
00:30:38,559 --> 00:30:41,039
>> um survey basically so that so you would

608
00:30:41,039 --> 00:30:42,880
pay like end up paying for that thing.

609
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:44,080
So, you know, once you're doing the

610
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:45,279
application, there are things that will

611
00:30:45,279 --> 00:30:47,760
incur costs getting there. And then, you

612
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:49,440
know, as she was telling me, like

613
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:51,919
there's a lot of towns who have done

614
00:30:51,919 --> 00:30:53,840
this process, you know, and gone through

615
00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:56,000
and they're, you know, they gotten the

616
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:59,039
grant, but then the towns have voted

617
00:30:59,039 --> 00:31:00,080
down,

618
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:01,840
>> you know,

619
00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:03,600
funding it. So, so they kind of like end

620
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:05,760
up in a they're still there and like

621
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:07,279
kind of in a queue, but because it's

622
00:31:07,279 --> 00:31:08,880
voted down like they will move up other

623
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:10,480
people on the wait list. Do you know

624
00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:12,799
like roughly roughly what percent of the

625
00:31:12,799 --> 00:31:15,039
cost the grant covers? I'm very curious.

626
00:31:15,039 --> 00:31:17,360
>> It's it's so it's variable um is what

627
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:18,960
she was explaining to me. So it depends

628
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:22,960
uh you get um graded on a list depending

629
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:25,360
on your town. So what your like the

630
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:26,640
population of your town is like the

631
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:28,159
needs of your town. So like a

632
00:31:28,159 --> 00:31:31,440
Springfield is going to do you know is

633
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:33,679
going to get more granted to them than

634
00:31:33,679 --> 00:31:34,960
Welssley is going to get granted to

635
00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:36,640
them. Right. So I mean so I don't know

636
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:38,559
where we would fall on that list. um in

637
00:31:38,559 --> 00:31:39,039
the middle.

638
00:31:39,039 --> 00:31:40,080
>> Yeah, probably I was gonna say probably

639
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:41,440
in the middle like we'd probably be in

640
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:43,360
the middle. Um yeah, so it's so it's

641
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:45,039
really dependent on like a bunch of

642
00:31:45,039 --> 00:31:46,880
factors.

643
00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:47,760
>> So So

644
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:50,720
>> I think um there's a green initiative

645
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:52,640
going on right now. I forget what it's

646
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:54,559
called. They had a a thing with the

647
00:31:54,559 --> 00:31:55,200
planning

648
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:55,919
>> resilient damage.

649
00:31:55,919 --> 00:31:57,440
Thank you. That's what

650
00:31:57,440 --> 00:31:59,120
it's called. So, they're talking about

651
00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:01,840
changing um you know, if you green build

652
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:04,399
and it's specific to town buildings and

653
00:32:04,399 --> 00:32:05,760
they're to talking about whether or not

654
00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:07,440
they're going to pass that and it has

655
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:10,080
grants involved as well and maybe we

656
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:11,200
should just make sure we're paying

657
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:12,399
attention to both

658
00:32:12,399 --> 00:32:12,799
>> right

659
00:32:12,799 --> 00:32:14,159
>> as we go along.

660
00:32:14,159 --> 00:32:15,840
>> Yeah. Say like this is right now we're

661
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:17,360
just in a it's like we're just basically

662
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:19,200
in a waiting phase. Um but I just want

663
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:21,279
to make sure it's on our minds

664
00:32:21,279 --> 00:32:23,360
>> um as something that we'll you know be

665
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:25,440
looking at hopefully pursuing. Um, and

666
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:26,799
I'll have some, you know, more

667
00:32:26,799 --> 00:32:29,120
conversations with the town manager, um,

668
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:32,320
to discuss, you know, what we think

669
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:34,159
about it and like I, you know, who

670
00:32:34,159 --> 00:32:35,600
knows? Who knows?

671
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:39,279
>> Do we have a sense for like ballpark

672
00:32:39,279 --> 00:32:40,799
costs for like what that study would

673
00:32:40,799 --> 00:32:42,159
look like? I assume we need to have

674
00:32:42,159 --> 00:32:43,279
that. That all needs to be determined.

675
00:32:43,279 --> 00:32:44,399
>> That's all that's all stuff I know

676
00:32:44,399 --> 00:32:46,240
nothing about, right? At this point in

677
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:48,159
time, I really don't know anything. I I

678
00:32:48,159 --> 00:32:50,000
mean, I did talk when I talked to uh

679
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:51,440
architects about it originally, I think

680
00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:53,120
they they cited me something like a

681
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:56,720
$30,000 to do um like a conditions or

682
00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:59,360
feasibility study, but I don't know if

683
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:01,600
that's true or just a number they made

684
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:03,200
up.

685
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:05,440
So

686
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:07,600
>> yeah, I'd like to just suggest that um

687
00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:10,240
you know in light of the fact for almost

688
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:12,559
as long as I can remember being being on

689
00:33:12,559 --> 00:33:15,200
the library board, we've had discussions

690
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:19,120
about the archival collection that the

691
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:22,480
Danver Historical Society, the library

692
00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:25,120
and others in Dan's

693
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:28,320
um I mentioned the historical society um

694
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:32,240
there's um just such a wealth of

695
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:33,200
there is

696
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:35,360
>> resides in Bambber that really doesn't

697
00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:38,559
have a home. It does not have a display

698
00:33:38,559 --> 00:33:41,200
facility. It doesn't have a product

699
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:44,559
staff to develop articulation agreements

700
00:33:44,559 --> 00:33:46,960
with schools and other aid organizations

701
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:49,919
in Andrews. So it seems though to me

702
00:33:49,919 --> 00:33:52,640
that especially in the 250th anniversary

703
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:56,399
of the the nation that this might be an

704
00:33:56,399 --> 00:33:58,720
appropriate time to really think about

705
00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:00,799
whether or not

706
00:34:00,799 --> 00:34:04,320
a real investment in um the archival

707
00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:07,279
center here in Damas. This is a such a

708
00:34:07,279 --> 00:34:10,399
rich historical community. So many

709
00:34:10,399 --> 00:34:13,200
things that have their historical roots

710
00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:15,040
here in Damas and so many people we just

711
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:16,560
talked about the Holton House just a few

712
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:20,480
minutes ago. Um so um I'd like to just

713
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:22,879
recommend that we very seriously take a

714
00:34:22,879 --> 00:34:24,480
look at whether or not an application

715
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:27,119
centered around the archival collection

716
00:34:27,119 --> 00:34:29,280
which we spent hundreds of thousands of

717
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:33,119
dollars on And you cannot even put a

718
00:34:33,119 --> 00:34:35,440
dollar figure on the knowledge that Mr.

719
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:38,800
Tra has. You couldn't put a a department

720
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:40,960
at a college or university that would

721
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:43,359
have better information or greater

722
00:34:43,359 --> 00:34:45,760
insight than he has relative to the

723
00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:47,440
historic significance of what we're

724
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:49,919
doing. So this may be a chance to pull

725
00:34:49,919 --> 00:34:51,919
all of this together and all of the

726
00:34:51,919 --> 00:34:54,240
concerns that we've been discussing over

727
00:34:54,240 --> 00:34:56,240
the literally over the decades about

728
00:34:56,240 --> 00:34:58,880
this. This could be an opportunity to

729
00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:00,800
really seize the moment and do something

730
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:03,280
significant for the generation that will

731
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:06,000
be following all of us sitting here

732
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:08,560
relative to preservation of the rich

733
00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:10,079
historical history of the town of

734
00:35:10,079 --> 00:35:12,400
Jambers and the people who live here and

735
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:14,560
the sacrifices they've made for this

736
00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:16,000
democracy.

737
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:18,480
>> Yeah, and I well said and I'll I'll say

738
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:22,160
that um you know I I agree with you and

739
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:24,560
I think that you know part you know the

740
00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:26,320
library itself is on the national

741
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:30,880
historic register and um there's that's

742
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:32,000
going to be something that's going to

743
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:33,920
have to be considered you know very

744
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:36,320
strongly when we are moving forward with

745
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:40,079
this process because you know a lot of

746
00:35:40,079 --> 00:35:42,160
it is thinking about you know what what

747
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:44,960
do what needs do we have you know for

748
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:46,720
the for the library and what and that's

749
00:35:46,720 --> 00:35:48,320
going to include like what what's that

750
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:51,839
what does that archives need you know so

751
00:35:51,839 --> 00:35:52,400
um

752
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:53,760
>> this would be a great fundraising

753
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:56,079
opportunity for

754
00:35:56,079 --> 00:35:58,480
I think if we were to get the historical

755
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:01,599
society and other concerned citizens and

756
00:36:01,599 --> 00:36:04,400
others and danders behind this that we

757
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:07,520
could make a strong and compelling case.

758
00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:09,920
I think that the people of Danver myself

759
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:12,079
included would be happy to support an

760
00:36:12,079 --> 00:36:14,800
effort like this right now for us to

761
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:17,200
sort of take hold of this and make this

762
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:19,200
something that we all all of us that are

763
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:21,839
sitting here on this board will go on in

764
00:36:21,839 --> 00:36:24,720
history. names will be

765
00:36:24,720 --> 00:36:27,440
in history for doing this. This is our

766
00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:30,720
chance to seize the moment and actually

767
00:36:30,720 --> 00:36:33,040
do something that would change the whole

768
00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:35,040
dynamic of what's been going on in

769
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:37,920
dances for the last 50 years.

770
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:40,079
>> Yeah. Well, we're not quite there yet,

771
00:36:40,079 --> 00:36:42,240
but but fundraising will be a big big

772
00:36:42,240 --> 00:36:46,320
piece of it. So, yeah. Yeah.

773
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:48,000
>> Mr. Chairman, I have one more question

774
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:51,599
about the uh about the uh viewing

775
00:36:51,599 --> 00:36:58,240
>> uh Declaration of Independence uh in the archives the afternoon.

776
00:36:58,240 --> 00:37:00,880
I'm looking at it and it uh having

777
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:03,839
somewhat uh 42 years law enforcement

778
00:37:03,839 --> 00:37:05,440
experience

779
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:07,119
and knowing what the the criminal

780
00:37:07,119 --> 00:37:10,560
element is out there and then I see that

781
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:13,119
the alarmist company and others may help

782
00:37:13,119 --> 00:37:16,160
with the viewing. Is that a a damis

783
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:17,839
police officer on detail?

784
00:37:17,839 --> 00:37:19,200
>> Yes. So, yes, detail officer.

785
00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:19,920
>> Great idea, I think.

786
00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:21,920
>> Yep. Detail officer for sure.

787
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:24,720
>> Um and then yeah, the Richard's working

788
00:37:24,720 --> 00:37:26,800
on um yeah, I'm already in touch with

789
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:28,720
I've already talked to the chief about

790
00:37:28,720 --> 00:37:30,640
the detail. I've already done that.

791
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:32,320
>> Um so, he's we're on the we're on the

792
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:34,160
list. We're on the list the detail list

793
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:37,359
already. And um then, uh yeah, and

794
00:37:37,359 --> 00:37:39,359
Richard's working on having you know,

795
00:37:39,359 --> 00:37:42,160
historical society alarm company folks

796
00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:43,839
to be there. What what what's it going

797
00:37:43,839 --> 00:37:45,839
to be in like a a case or

798
00:37:45,839 --> 00:37:48,240
>> Yeah. So uh so yeah, there's a we have

799
00:37:48,240 --> 00:37:48,960
like a case

800
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:51,440
>> is it can you carry it?

801
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:53,680
>> No, you know it's a standing case. It's

802
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:54,800
like about

803
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:56,240
>> I know in the state house in the

804
00:37:56,240 --> 00:37:57,839
archives they have

805
00:37:57,839 --> 00:37:59,119
>> you know you're not going to carry those

806
00:37:59,119 --> 00:37:59,760
with 10 people.

807
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:00,400
>> Yeah. No, I mean

808
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:01,760
>> and you can look and write then see it.

809
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:02,079
But

810
00:38:02,079 --> 00:38:03,680
>> Yeah. Yeah. So yeah. So it's like a it's

811
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:06,240
a you know it's like a wooden podium

812
00:38:06,240 --> 00:38:09,200
kind of thing with a cover like a glass

813
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:11,359
cover over it. So like the documents

814
00:38:11,359 --> 00:38:13,280
will be inside, you know, under that

815
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:14,480
>> not easily carried away.

816
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:16,079
>> Yeah. No, no, yeah. No, you you would I

817
00:38:16,079 --> 00:38:17,599
mean you would have to knock a few

818
00:38:17,599 --> 00:38:19,280
people over and then take the glass off

819
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:21,440
and then take the documents and then you

820
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:22,960
know how you even going to fence them,

821
00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:26,079
you know. I don't know. So I don't know.

822
00:38:26,079 --> 00:38:28,400
But I mean I think I think we'll be you

823
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:30,160
know in a good good and like you know

824
00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:31,839
and Richard you feels very strongly

825
00:38:31,839 --> 00:38:34,720
about being there present um you know

826
00:38:34,720 --> 00:38:36,720
while this is all happening and

827
00:38:36,720 --> 00:38:39,200
everything too. So, so they'll it'll be

828
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:41,359
under eyes all the time.

829
00:38:41,359 --> 00:38:44,560
>> So, I know we talked um before that Is

830
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:46,000
this working? Yeah.

831
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:49,680
>> Um that there is like a a trail of these

832
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:52,160
documents around Boston that like

833
00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:53,839
libraries and I know that we're not

834
00:38:53,839 --> 00:38:56,240
doing it on the 4th, but

835
00:38:56,240 --> 00:38:59,040
>> is that sort of a an opportunity that we

836
00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:02,160
could not advertise, but like

837
00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:03,760
>> let people know that we have this

838
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:07,040
document to to show them so that we can

839
00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:09,119
get the best turnout and then have them

840
00:39:09,119 --> 00:39:10,560
all go to the concert after.

841
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:13,520
>> Yeah. Let me let me see. Yeah. Like uh I

842
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:14,800
don't even know how to get on that list.

843
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:17,040
So, I'll see. Okay. Yeah, I don't

844
00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:18,480
either, but just

845
00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:19,680
>> I know there is a list. You're right.

846
00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:22,160
There is like a list. Sorry, didn't mean

847
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:23,839
to put that on you.

848
00:39:23,839 --> 00:39:26,640
>> Thanks. No, just kidding.

849
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:28,560
>> Yeah, I'll check into that. Okay, I'll

850
00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:31,760
check into that.

851
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:33,040
What is that?

852
00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:35,680
>> So there I know there uh Jessica had

853
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:38,000
brought up before um there's kind of

854
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:40,240
like a website or a list somewhere of

855
00:39:40,240 --> 00:39:42,880
like other um municipalities that have a

856
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:45,520
copy of like the declaration. So she was

857
00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:47,520
just saying like can we get on that sort

858
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:48,800
of like a trail is

859
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:50,880
>> right. Yeah. So like on it it's for the

860
00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:53,599
two 250th anniversary. They're all sort

861
00:39:53,599 --> 00:39:55,359
of laying them out and that they're on a

862
00:39:55,359 --> 00:39:57,440
map and people can go to each one

863
00:39:57,440 --> 00:39:59,040
>> if they want to. they want to, but I

864
00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:00,160
know we're not doing it on the actual

865
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:01,680
fourth, but just to

866
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:02,800
>> Yeah. And I don't know how many are

867
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:04,079
doing it on the fourth, but

868
00:40:04,079 --> 00:40:04,560
>> Okay.

869
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:05,680
>> I don't I don't even know either.

870
00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:06,800
There's I think that's been under

871
00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:08,160
discussion of like when people are doing

872
00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:13,839
it. And one of our copies, as I say, is special because it has uh the printer

873
00:40:13,839 --> 00:40:16,960
decided to put like George Washington's

874
00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:19,440
head on it.

875
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:22,640
>> And I knew General Gage. It's General

876
00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:24,560
Gage. He didn't. So like no one knew

877
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:25,040
what they looked like.

878
00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:25,920
>> He didn't know what they looked like.

879
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:27,359
Yeah. So they just made up what they

880
00:40:27,359 --> 00:40:29,040
looked like. But it's General Gage and

881
00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:31,760
George Washington's little heads are on

882
00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:33,280
there. Though apparently it doesn't look

883
00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:34,160
anything like them.

884
00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:35,200
>> No.

885
00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:38,000
>> But but that that's that's Yeah. So

886
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:39,680
that's one of ours is is special that

887
00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:41,680
way.

888
00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:46,079
>> Anything else for the director's report?

889
00:40:46,079 --> 00:40:48,640
Okay. All right. So we'll move on to uh

890
00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:50,400
we have Kate Connley, town council here

891
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:51,599
to talk answer questions about

892
00:40:51,599 --> 00:40:53,119
indemnification insurance.

893
00:40:53,119 --> 00:40:54,640
>> So you have your own mic over there,

894
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:59,270
Kate.

895
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:01,200
and it appears to be on. Good evening

896
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:03,680
everybody. I'm Kate Connelly with Murphy

897
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:06,400
Hessie Tumi and Laane Town Council.

898
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:09,040
>> Um we I can't hear you so I don't know

899
00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:09,839
if anybody else

900
00:41:09,839 --> 00:41:11,760
>> Does the green light mean it's on?

901
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:12,880
>> Much closer to it.

902
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:16,470
>> Okay.

903
00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:16,960
» There you go.

904
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:21,510
>> All right. I'll try to speak loudly.

905
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:24,560
» All right. So, I'm here to address an

906
00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:26,800
issue that this board raised with

907
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:29,280
respect to indemnification. And my

908
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:32,000
understanding is this came up because

909
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:33,920
the retirement board brought it to the

910
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:36,079
attention of the town that they thought

911
00:41:36,079 --> 00:41:38,960
a town meeting article needed to be put

912
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:41,680
on the warrant for um approval so that

913
00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:44,240
the retirement board would be

914
00:41:44,240 --> 00:41:46,560
indemnified should anything happen in

915
00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:48,880
the course of the member's duties um

916
00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:50,319
conducting their various duties so that

917
00:41:50,319 --> 00:41:51,920
they would not be personally held liable

918
00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:54,240
and they'd be protected by the town. And

919
00:41:54,240 --> 00:41:56,319
it turns out they've already accepted

920
00:41:56,319 --> 00:41:58,720
the statute that they needed to accept.

921
00:41:58,720 --> 00:42:00,319
And looking at my notes here, chap

922
00:42:00,319 --> 00:42:03,359
general law chapter 32, section 2A

923
00:42:03,359 --> 00:42:05,280
relates to indemnification and legal

924
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:07,280
protection of public retirement boards

925
00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:09,599
and board members in conducting their

926
00:42:09,599 --> 00:42:12,000
functions. The statute dictates whether

927
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:13,760
a retirement board member is shielded

928
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:15,760
from personal financial loss in the

929
00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:18,400
event of a civil lawsuit related just to

930
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:21,119
their official duties. The statute only

931
00:42:21,119 --> 00:42:22,960
protects retirement boards, however, so

932
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:25,200
it has no application to the library

933
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:28,560
trustees. Um, so whether the library

934
00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:31,040
trustees would be indemnified under the

935
00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:33,359
town's what you'd look to that next is

936
00:42:33,359 --> 00:42:35,119
insurance. So under the town's general

937
00:42:35,119 --> 00:42:38,160
liability policy depends on whether it

938
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:40,800
is under the umbrella of the town. And

939
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:42,720
if that is the case, and I touched on

940
00:42:42,720 --> 00:42:44,720
this a little bit at this the training

941
00:42:44,720 --> 00:42:47,040
that I did, but I think a couple I see a

942
00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:48,400
couple familiar faces, but I don't think

943
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:49,680
everybody was there. But I did a

944
00:42:49,680 --> 00:42:51,760
training for town boards and commissions

945
00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:54,400
at the request of the town manager on

946
00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:57,119
things like open meeting law, conflict

947
00:42:57,119 --> 00:42:59,359
of interest, public records, and

948
00:42:59,359 --> 00:43:01,839
conducting effective meetings and all of

949
00:43:01,839 --> 00:43:03,440
the requirements that go into that. And

950
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:05,359
one of the things that did come up, I

951
00:43:05,359 --> 00:43:07,920
think, in questions and answers was um

952
00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:09,920
about indemnification. And I said that

953
00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:12,960
if a municipal board or any town

954
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:15,200
official is acting in the course of its

955
00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:16,880
employment, there is something called

956
00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:18,960
the Massachusetts Tort Claims Act, which

957
00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:21,839
is general law chapter 258. And under

958
00:43:21,839 --> 00:43:23,280
that there is the what's called the

959
00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:25,520
discretionary function exemption. And

960
00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:26,800
that means if you're doing a

961
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:28,319
discretionary job, say you're the

962
00:43:28,319 --> 00:43:29,440
building commissioner and you're

963
00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:31,680
determining whether to issue a building

964
00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:34,480
permit based on the Is this is this

965
00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:35,200
feedback?

966
00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:37,040
>> No,

967
00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:40,319
it's just in my ears. Um, if you make a

968
00:43:40,319 --> 00:43:41,760
mistake and somebody brings a lawsuit

969
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:44,400
against you in that capacity, if you

970
00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:46,640
didn't do something willfully reckless,

971
00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:48,880
uh, just just a negligent thing, you

972
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:51,280
would be protected by the Tor claims act

973
00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:53,119
by the discretionary function exemption

974
00:43:53,119 --> 00:43:55,440
section 13, it has to be adopted by the

975
00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:57,920
town for it to apply. Um, looking

976
00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:00,800
further into that, even if the town owns

977
00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:02,480
the library, which it does, and the

978
00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:04,400
board's duties are then set forth,

979
00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:06,720
there's another statute, chapter 78,

980
00:44:06,720 --> 00:44:09,440
that governs what the board does in the

981
00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:11,200
course of business. What this board does

982
00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:13,839
is it manages the trust, uh, which is

983
00:44:13,839 --> 00:44:16,079
not town property, and thus it's not

984
00:44:16,079 --> 00:44:17,760
protected by the town's insurance

985
00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:20,560
policy. So, the town would not be

986
00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:22,560
responsible for a separate entity

987
00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:25,359
managing a separate entity's money fund.

988
00:44:25,359 --> 00:44:27,119
So, you would not, this board would not

989
00:44:27,119 --> 00:44:28,640
be protected under the Massachusetts

990
00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:31,359
Tort Claims Act. And there is case law.

991
00:44:31,359 --> 00:44:33,280
I didn't um and I'm happy to give you

992
00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:34,640
this paper that I'm reading from. It's

993
00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:36,079
just a one page that I sort of put

994
00:44:36,079 --> 00:44:38,720
together um to cite the relevant

995
00:44:38,720 --> 00:44:40,400
statutes. But there is case law that

996
00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:43,119
says that if the main function of a

997
00:44:43,119 --> 00:44:45,200
board is managing a trust fund, which is

998
00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:48,480
what this board does, but you also um

999
00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:51,520
appoint the library director.

1000
00:44:51,520 --> 00:44:53,440
Um anyway, this board also appoints the

1001
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:55,200
library director, but it's the library

1002
00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:56,640
director who's responsible for the

1003
00:44:56,640 --> 00:44:58,079
day-to-day administration of the

1004
00:44:58,079 --> 00:45:00,160
library, including supervision,

1005
00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:02,079
direction, and evaluation of library

1006
00:45:02,079 --> 00:45:04,480
staff and for implementing policies

1007
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:06,880
established by the board. So there's a

1008
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:08,960
couple of cases that examine and it they

1009
00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:10,319
come out differently depending on what

1010
00:45:10,319 --> 00:45:11,839
the library board or the library

1011
00:45:11,839 --> 00:45:14,560
trustees do. But when it's a trustee

1012
00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:18,160
issue where they the main function is to

1013
00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:20,000
manage the trust funds and especially

1014
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:24,000
where they are not town funds those

1015
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:26,240
trustees or those boards are not

1016
00:45:26,240 --> 00:45:28,400
protected under the TOR claims act. And

1017
00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:29,760
there's there's plenty of case law on

1018
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:31,680
that. didn't cite any in this memo, but

1019
00:45:31,680 --> 00:45:33,760
I have I have a longer one that I sort

1020
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:35,920
of just wrote for my own notes in which

1021
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:39,599
I do cite those. So, um that's the short

1022
00:45:39,599 --> 00:45:41,200
answer to that. There's no need to adopt

1023
00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:42,960
a statute because there isn't one that

1024
00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:45,119
applies. Um it would be the tort claims

1025
00:45:45,119 --> 00:45:50,079
act, but um based on the facts and the case law that interprets those facts

1026
00:45:50,079 --> 00:45:53,760
and whether the tort claims act applies,

1027
00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:57,680
it would not apply to this board. So, um

1028
00:45:57,680 --> 00:45:59,119
are there questions on that?

1029
00:45:59,119 --> 00:46:00,640
>> Yeah. or Okay,

1030
00:46:00,640 --> 00:46:03,680
>> I I respectfully disagree with you

1031
00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:05,920
saying that the only thing that we

1032
00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:09,760
really are in charge of is trust funds.

1033
00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:13,680
I I I respectfully disagree with that.

1034
00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:16,640
>> Okay. Well, the courts have decided

1035
00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:18,560
those facts and found that if the main

1036
00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:19,440
responsibility

1037
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:20,319
>> you said it.

1038
00:46:20,319 --> 00:46:21,760
>> Yeah. I'm telling you what the courts

1039
00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:23,760
how courts have interpreted the

1040
00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:25,200
Massachusetts Tor claims act.

1041
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:26,880
>> The court know what we do and what we

1042
00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:29,680
don't do. So the courts have interpreted

1043
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:32,000
similar cases in which trustees have

1044
00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:35,440
been sued in other towns and the facts

1045
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:37,359
in the cases where the court said no,

1046
00:46:37,359 --> 00:46:39,760
they are not protected were very similar

1047
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:42,800
to this board.

1048
00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:45,920
>> Do you even know what this board does?

1049
00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:47,359
>> I'm not here to argue with you. I'm just

1050
00:46:47,359 --> 00:46:48,079
here to tell you.

1051
00:46:48,079 --> 00:46:49,280
>> Am I asking you a question?

1052
00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:50,720
>> I I just told you what my understanding

1053
00:46:50,720 --> 00:46:52,400
of what this board does is. Let me read

1054
00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:55,119
it again.

1055
00:46:55,119 --> 00:46:57,520
While the board hires, evaluates, and

1056
00:46:57,520 --> 00:46:58,960
where appropriate may recommend

1057
00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:00,880
discipline or termination of the library

1058
00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:03,200
director subject to applicable law and

1059
00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:05,280
any employment agreement, that is the

1060
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:07,280
board's only other responsibility

1061
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:10,079
besides managing the trust. It is the

1062
00:47:10,079 --> 00:47:11,920
library director who is responsible for

1063
00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:13,760
the day-to-day administration of the

1064
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:15,760
library, including supervision,

1065
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:18,000
direction, and evaluation of library

1066
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:20,960
staff and for implementing policies.

1067
00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:24,960
>> Can I ask you that?

1068
00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:27,280
from looking at all of the documents

1069
00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:29,119
that was provided including the website

1070
00:47:29,119 --> 00:47:32,319
for the library. Yeah, just to jump in

1071
00:47:32,319 --> 00:47:34,480
just if I can clarify that what I'm the

1072
00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:36,480
interpretation I'm reading is the key

1073
00:47:36,480 --> 00:47:39,280
thing is the main function right like

1074
00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:41,119
our main function as a trust we may do

1075
00:47:41,119 --> 00:47:43,680
other things but our primary role is

1076
00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:45,280
managing administering the trust which

1077
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:46,960
is I think is where the distinction

1078
00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:48,560
comes in it's not saying we don't do

1079
00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:51,040
other things we do but our primary role

1080
00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:53,599
is to manage the trust which law comes

1081
00:47:53,599 --> 00:47:53,839
from

1082
00:47:53,839 --> 00:47:55,599
>> I'm happy to be corrected like I said

1083
00:47:55,599 --> 00:47:57,520
there's other cases that go other ways

1084
00:47:57,520 --> 00:47:59,760
but in those cases the courts

1085
00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:01,359
itemized. I'll I'll send you the

1086
00:48:01,359 --> 00:48:02,720
citations if you want to read those

1087
00:48:02,720 --> 00:48:05,040
cases. The courts looked at everything

1088
00:48:05,040 --> 00:48:06,880
that that particular board did or those

1089
00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:09,920
trustees and determined in some cases

1090
00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:11,760
they do many other things besides

1091
00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:14,160
managing the trusts and in those cases

1092
00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:16,160
they were found to be covered and some

1093
00:48:16,160 --> 00:48:17,599
of them were in different states that

1094
00:48:17,599 --> 00:48:19,280
don't have the Massachusetts Tort Claims

1095
00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:21,440
Act obviously but they had similar other

1096
00:48:21,440 --> 00:48:24,400
statutes that if the court decided yes

1097
00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:26,480
this board does all these other things

1098
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:28,800
then they were protected and and

1099
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:30,640
indemnified.

1100
00:48:30,640 --> 00:48:34,079
So if if so and just to clarify, if we

1101
00:48:34,079 --> 00:48:35,760
did want to become indemnified, we would

1102
00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:38,720
basically as a board need to go seek out

1103
00:48:38,720 --> 00:48:40,319
essentially private indemnification

1104
00:48:40,319 --> 00:48:42,800
insurance. Correct. So as a board, we

1105
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:44,880
could choose to seek out indemnification

1106
00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:47,200
insurance as a board on our own.

1107
00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:47,599
Correct.

1108
00:48:47,599 --> 00:48:48,800
>> Honestly, I'd have to look into that

1109
00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:50,640
because you're still a municipality. You

1110
00:48:50,640 --> 00:48:54,640
can have private insurance, but it's a different type of insurance,

1111
00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:56,319
general liability for municipalities.

1112
00:48:56,319 --> 00:48:58,000
It's a little bit different than just a

1113
00:48:58,000 --> 00:49:00,400
private insurance policy. Um, there are

1114
00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:02,720
like Maya though I forget what that even

1115
00:49:02,720 --> 00:49:05,359
stands for. MIA is one of the big

1116
00:49:05,359 --> 00:49:07,200
companies. It's it's Massachusetts

1117
00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:10,559
something insurance is one of the eyes

1118
00:49:10,559 --> 00:49:12,240
>> association.

1119
00:49:12,240 --> 00:49:14,160
>> Yeah, it's MIA, but that Yeah, it's

1120
00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:16,319
Massachusetts something insurance

1121
00:49:16,319 --> 00:49:18,079
association. Uh, and there are other

1122
00:49:18,079 --> 00:49:20,319
companies that do it, but that that

1123
00:49:20,319 --> 00:49:21,920
might be an avenue.

1124
00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:22,720
>> Okay,

1125
00:49:22,720 --> 00:49:24,720
>> madame councel, thank you for coming. My

1126
00:49:24,720 --> 00:49:26,720
name is Mike Hagen and I I was the one

1127
00:49:26,720 --> 00:49:28,880
that originally brought it up at the

1128
00:49:28,880 --> 00:49:31,119
open meeting and then uh all the way

1129
00:49:31,119 --> 00:49:33,599
along here I'm on the retirement board

1130
00:49:33,599 --> 00:49:36,640
and we manage over $18 million and you

1131
00:49:36,640 --> 00:49:39,359
can imagine why somebody would be

1132
00:49:39,359 --> 00:49:41,359
concerned about indemnification. M

1133
00:49:41,359 --> 00:49:44,480
>> so then sitting here with 70 plus

1134
00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:47,040
million I brought this up to the board

1135
00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:48,160
itself

1136
00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:49,280
>> 700,000

1137
00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:51,280
>> uh thinking that maybe

1138
00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:53,040
>> we should check into as to whether we

1139
00:49:53,040 --> 00:49:55,440
are indemnified or not. It sounds like

1140
00:49:55,440 --> 00:49:59,680
we aren't. Now is there any uh is there

1141
00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:02,640
any possibility that uh the board could

1142
00:50:02,640 --> 00:50:09,359
pass uh in our uh bylaws to identify

1143
00:50:09,359 --> 00:50:11,680
ourselves? Is that possible?

1144
00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:12,960
>> It wouldn't be something you could do

1145
00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:14,559
under a local bylaw, it's covered by

1146
00:50:14,559 --> 00:50:15,280
statute.

1147
00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:17,359
>> Okay. I mean, one way that if it was

1148
00:50:17,359 --> 00:50:19,119
that important to the board and if it

1149
00:50:19,119 --> 00:50:21,280
fit with everything else, personnel

1150
00:50:21,280 --> 00:50:25,520
rules that the town has, you might

1151
00:50:25,520 --> 00:50:28,240
reorganize what you do and and develop

1152
00:50:28,240 --> 00:50:30,880
other management responsibilities that

1153
00:50:30,880 --> 00:50:32,960
>> I mean, I I've been on here almost 30

1154
00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:35,520
years and only one or two instant like

1155
00:50:35,520 --> 00:50:37,920
somebody run over on Silvin Street and

1156
00:50:37,920 --> 00:50:40,400
they brought a suit and town council.

1157
00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:42,160
No, no, no. You guys aren't even close.

1158
00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:45,599
But I mean if it came to a personnel

1159
00:50:45,599 --> 00:50:48,400
issue, a personnel issue where an

1160
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:50,079
employee

1161
00:50:50,079 --> 00:50:52,240
uh decided to bring suit against the

1162
00:50:52,240 --> 00:50:55,359
library for possible wrongdoing and here

1163
00:50:55,359 --> 00:50:57,520
we are being

1164
00:50:57,520 --> 00:50:59,839
in charge of the library and we could be

1165
00:50:59,839 --> 00:51:02,480
named in that, right? personally

1166
00:51:02,480 --> 00:51:05,200
if somebody say an employee felt they

1167
00:51:05,200 --> 00:51:06,480
were wrong and they brought a suit

1168
00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:09,440
against the director and the board.

1169
00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:12,240
>> Well, first of all, you can't be sued

1170
00:51:12,240 --> 00:51:13,680
personally when you're acting in your

1171
00:51:13,680 --> 00:51:16,880
capacity as a municipal board member or

1172
00:51:16,880 --> 00:51:18,960
any kind if you're acting in your role

1173
00:51:18,960 --> 00:51:21,040
and you didn't go outside that role and

1174
00:51:21,040 --> 00:51:22,720
do something criminal or something that

1175
00:51:22,720 --> 00:51:24,480
just you did and the other board members

1176
00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:26,400
didn't do. the whole board makes a

1177
00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:28,079
decision on something. The reason I said

1178
00:51:28,079 --> 00:51:30,400
that is uh in my many years experience

1179
00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:32,640
uh I was of the DS police department and

1180
00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:34,800
we had issues where

1181
00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:37,920
people uh tried to source individually

1182
00:51:37,920 --> 00:51:40,640
and collectively

1183
00:51:40,640 --> 00:51:42,160
you know

1184
00:51:42,160 --> 00:51:42,800
>> you can't

1185
00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:45,839
>> that was that came from the towns we had

1186
00:51:45,839 --> 00:51:47,839
an issue the town was going to sue us

1187
00:51:47,839 --> 00:51:50,720
individually and collectively so now I'm

1188
00:51:50,720 --> 00:51:51,839
trying to figure out

1189
00:51:51,839 --> 00:51:53,920
>> it depends on every individual situation

1190
00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:55,440
like you mentioned something about a car

1191
00:51:55,440 --> 00:51:57,440
accident I have no idea what that would

1192
00:51:57,440 --> 00:51:59,599
30 years ago, somebody got run over on

1193
00:51:59,599 --> 00:52:01,680
Silven Street and they were near the

1194
00:52:01,680 --> 00:52:03,520
pond and they thought,

1195
00:52:03,520 --> 00:52:05,119
>> we thought at one time we owned all the

1196
00:52:05,119 --> 00:52:06,880
way down to the pond. Well,

1197
00:52:06,880 --> 00:52:08,880
>> we don't.

1198
00:52:08,880 --> 00:52:10,559
>> Yeah, I don't see how that would invoke

1199
00:52:10,559 --> 00:52:12,480
any liability for the library trustees

1200
00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:13,920
>> bringing those issues up.

1201
00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:16,000
>> It would depend on what the issue was,

1202
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:18,240
but you typically, as I said, when

1203
00:52:18,240 --> 00:52:20,319
you're acting as one member of a board,

1204
00:52:20,319 --> 00:52:21,680
it's kind of like the zoning board of

1205
00:52:21,680 --> 00:52:23,119
appeals because they get sued all the

1206
00:52:23,119 --> 00:52:25,200
time. the zoning board of appeals, they

1207
00:52:25,200 --> 00:52:26,960
sue the members and there's there's case

1208
00:52:26,960 --> 00:52:29,599
law on this that you have to sue all of

1209
00:52:29,599 --> 00:52:31,200
the named members even if somebody

1210
00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:33,359
wasn't at the meeting that night because

1211
00:52:33,359 --> 00:52:35,839
they're act and people board members get

1212
00:52:35,839 --> 00:52:37,920
upset about that and they think oh no my

1213
00:52:37,920 --> 00:52:39,920
name is on it I've been sued personally

1214
00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:41,680
and some attorneys are really mean about

1215
00:52:41,680 --> 00:52:43,200
it because they they serve them with

1216
00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:44,960
their papers at home which they don't

1217
00:52:44,960 --> 00:52:49,280
have to do. I always serve people if I'm I don't I'm on the side of

1218
00:52:49,280 --> 00:52:50,880
municipal boards. I'm not suing them,

1219
00:52:50,880 --> 00:52:53,440
but if I'm suing someone else, if I'm

1220
00:52:53,440 --> 00:52:55,359
the plaintiff and my municipality wants

1221
00:52:55,359 --> 00:52:57,520
to bring action against someone, um if

1222
00:52:57,520 --> 00:52:59,119
they're a municipal employee, I serve

1223
00:52:59,119 --> 00:53:01,680
them at the town hall. I don't send, you

1224
00:53:01,680 --> 00:53:04,240
know, stuff to people's homes. But when

1225
00:53:04,240 --> 00:53:05,839
those zoning board of appeals members

1226
00:53:05,839 --> 00:53:07,920
get sued, even if their name is on

1227
00:53:07,920 --> 00:53:09,440
there, they're not sued in their

1228
00:53:09,440 --> 00:53:11,040
personal capacity. They're not going to

1229
00:53:11,040 --> 00:53:12,400
lose their house. they're not going to

1230
00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:13,920
have to pay any money even, you know, if

1231
00:53:13,920 --> 00:53:16,720
the board loses. It's just the zoning

1232
00:53:16,720 --> 00:53:18,800
decision. So, it's it's something that

1233
00:53:18,800 --> 00:53:20,400
it it's nerve-wracking if you see your

1234
00:53:20,400 --> 00:53:22,880
name on a complaint. But that's all the

1235
00:53:22,880 --> 00:53:24,960
more reason why when when a court says

1236
00:53:24,960 --> 00:53:27,359
no, even if you weren't at that meeting

1237
00:53:27,359 --> 00:53:28,800
or you didn't you weren't even on the

1238
00:53:28,800 --> 00:53:30,640
board, then you joined after, if the

1239
00:53:30,640 --> 00:53:32,000
decision came out while you're a board

1240
00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:33,760
member, you need to be named too. And

1241
00:53:33,760 --> 00:53:35,040
that's good because that means you're

1242
00:53:35,040 --> 00:53:37,760
only being named as a board member. So

1243
00:53:37,760 --> 00:53:40,400
similar if this board were sued for

1244
00:53:40,400 --> 00:53:42,960
something, it's it would really I don't

1245
00:53:42,960 --> 00:53:44,400
can't even think of too many things that

1246
00:53:44,400 --> 00:53:45,920
it could be other than mismanagement of

1247
00:53:45,920 --> 00:53:47,599
the trust fund if that's the main thing

1248
00:53:47,599 --> 00:53:48,559
the board does.

1249
00:53:48,559 --> 00:53:50,079
>> May I may I ask you a question? Thank

1250
00:53:50,079 --> 00:53:51,599
you. Um thank you for that

1251
00:53:51,599 --> 00:53:53,920
clarification. I from my initial

1252
00:53:53,920 --> 00:53:56,400
research I um concluded the same thing

1253
00:53:56,400 --> 00:53:58,480
that in terms of like a workplace

1254
00:53:58,480 --> 00:54:00,160
discrimination something like that that

1255
00:54:00,160 --> 00:54:02,480
we would be protected that we wouldn't

1256
00:54:02,480 --> 00:54:04,079
be the suit wouldn't be brought against

1257
00:54:04,079 --> 00:54:06,559
us personally like a personal liability

1258
00:54:06,559 --> 00:54:08,720
in terms of like coming out of our bank

1259
00:54:08,720 --> 00:54:12,000
accounts. Um but the mismanagement of

1260
00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:14,640
the trust is something that could be

1261
00:54:14,640 --> 00:54:16,720
brought a suit could be theoretically

1262
00:54:16,720 --> 00:54:18,960
brought against us by somebody who

1263
00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:20,400
believed that we were grossly

1264
00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:22,480
mismanaging the trust. The problem with

1265
00:54:22,480 --> 00:54:24,559
trying to indemnify against that is that

1266
00:54:24,559 --> 00:54:27,599
you can't I if you miss if we mismanage

1267
00:54:27,599 --> 00:54:30,960
this trust then people have the right to

1268
00:54:30,960 --> 00:54:35,200
sue us for that and saying like you know

1269
00:54:35,200 --> 00:54:40,240
I want full protection to do anything

1270
00:54:40,240 --> 00:54:42,000
we can't I don't think we can achieve

1271
00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:46,800
that. I think we have to engage in by

1272
00:54:46,800 --> 00:54:51,680
the rules and adhere to the to the open

1273
00:54:51,680 --> 00:54:53,839
meeting law and make everything very

1274
00:54:53,839 --> 00:54:56,960
transparent. And that is our

1275
00:54:56,960 --> 00:55:00,240
indemnification is that we all

1276
00:55:00,240 --> 00:55:04,400
serve faithfully and have no ulterior

1277
00:55:04,400 --> 00:55:07,440
motives to steal from our community and

1278
00:55:07,440 --> 00:55:11,280
hopefully nobody would randomly sue us.

1279
00:55:11,280 --> 00:55:13,520
But I'm very glad for the clarification

1280
00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:15,200
around

1281
00:55:15,200 --> 00:55:18,559
finer decisions, you know, that where a

1282
00:55:18,559 --> 00:55:20,319
suit might be brought against the

1283
00:55:20,319 --> 00:55:23,040
municipality via our board. Right.

1284
00:55:23,040 --> 00:55:25,520
>> So, if I might, Mr. Chairman, so we're

1285
00:55:25,520 --> 00:55:27,119
protected for everything but the trust

1286
00:55:27,119 --> 00:55:29,760
with you with the town council. You will

1287
00:55:29,760 --> 00:55:31,839
you uh any action brought against the

1288
00:55:31,839 --> 00:55:33,920
library other than the other than the

1289
00:55:33,920 --> 00:55:37,119
trust, you represent us. Is that what

1290
00:55:37,119 --> 00:55:39,280
I'm hearing?

1291
00:55:39,280 --> 00:55:41,119
>> No. But what I'm saying is that the

1292
00:55:41,119 --> 00:55:42,800
you're not covered under the town's

1293
00:55:42,800 --> 00:55:46,160
general liability policy because the

1294
00:55:46,160 --> 00:55:46,800
only

1295
00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:48,240
>> on our own, right?

1296
00:55:48,240 --> 00:55:49,599
>> If you're not doing anything wrong,

1297
00:55:49,599 --> 00:55:51,920
there's nothing to worry about. But the

1298
00:55:51,920 --> 00:55:54,400
main thing that this board does is

1299
00:55:54,400 --> 00:55:57,599
manage the trust. So that's why the

1300
00:55:57,599 --> 00:55:59,760
courts have found in interpreting the

1301
00:55:59,760 --> 00:56:02,480
case law that the toy claims act doesn't

1302
00:56:02,480 --> 00:56:04,079
apply to employees who are managing

1303
00:56:04,079 --> 00:56:06,160
private funds. Even if it's a even if

1304
00:56:06,160 --> 00:56:08,799
the library is owned by the town, if the

1305
00:56:08,799 --> 00:56:11,520
main function of the trustees is to

1306
00:56:11,520 --> 00:56:13,040
manage a private trust with private

1307
00:56:13,040 --> 00:56:15,200
trust funds, it's not even town money,

1308
00:56:15,200 --> 00:56:17,920
then no, you're not protected if there

1309
00:56:17,920 --> 00:56:20,880
should be a valid lawsuit against you,

1310
00:56:20,880 --> 00:56:22,960
against the board.

1311
00:56:22,960 --> 00:56:24,880
>> But I mean, I'm just trying to clarify

1312
00:56:24,880 --> 00:56:27,359
my mind. If an employee brings an action

1313
00:56:27,359 --> 00:56:30,240
against the board for alleged

1314
00:56:30,240 --> 00:56:33,200
wrongdoing, naming all of us, are we

1315
00:56:33,200 --> 00:56:35,839
protected by town council?

1316
00:56:35,839 --> 00:56:37,440
>> If an employee of the library,

1317
00:56:37,440 --> 00:56:39,200
>> employee of the library feels wronged

1318
00:56:39,200 --> 00:56:41,599
something. They It's possible today's

1319
00:56:41,599 --> 00:56:43,440
society, somebody may feel they're

1320
00:56:43,440 --> 00:56:45,359
discriminated against or something, they

1321
00:56:45,359 --> 00:56:47,680
bring an action against they're gonna

1322
00:56:47,680 --> 00:56:49,839
the director, the the board. Are we

1323
00:56:49,839 --> 00:56:52,799
protected by the town council?

1324
00:56:52,799 --> 00:56:56,160
depending on what the action is. You do

1325
00:56:56,160 --> 00:56:58,559
have labor counsel that's my firm as

1326
00:56:58,559 --> 00:57:01,200
well. So if an employer

1327
00:57:01,200 --> 00:57:02,960
>> if an employee were to bring an action

1328
00:57:02,960 --> 00:57:04,559
if you're talking about something like

1329
00:57:04,559 --> 00:57:06,559
sexual harassment or gender

1330
00:57:06,559 --> 00:57:09,200
discrimination or anything like that on

1331
00:57:09,200 --> 00:57:10,480
anything right

1332
00:57:10,480 --> 00:57:11,760
>> that would not be an action of the

1333
00:57:11,760 --> 00:57:13,359
board. I've never heard of an entire

1334
00:57:13,359 --> 00:57:15,440
board you know harassing someone or

1335
00:57:15,440 --> 00:57:17,440
discriminating against someone. So that

1336
00:57:17,440 --> 00:57:18,880
>> because we're not involved in personnel

1337
00:57:18,880 --> 00:57:20,240
matters. So I

1338
00:57:20,240 --> 00:57:23,440
>> I mean that's So like

1339
00:57:23,440 --> 00:57:24,960
I I don't know. I don't know if it's

1340
00:57:24,960 --> 00:57:25,920
productive to go down these

1341
00:57:25,920 --> 00:57:28,480
hypotheticals because

1342
00:57:28,480 --> 00:57:29,599
you can't really comment on

1343
00:57:29,599 --> 00:57:32,799
hypotheticals. Um so I mean I think it's

1344
00:57:32,799 --> 00:57:35,040
probably I think what we're hearing is

1345
00:57:35,040 --> 00:57:37,280
we're not indemnified. If there's

1346
00:57:37,280 --> 00:57:38,400
something we wanted to pursue, we'd have

1347
00:57:38,400 --> 00:57:39,920
to do it on our own. But it sounds like

1348
00:57:39,920 --> 00:57:42,559
our liability is quite narrow.

1349
00:57:42,559 --> 00:57:42,960
>> Yes.

1350
00:57:42,960 --> 00:57:45,119
>> Because it would basically involve us.

1351
00:57:45,119 --> 00:57:46,720
We're likely only getting sued if we

1352
00:57:46,720 --> 00:57:48,480
grossly mismanage the funds, right? And

1353
00:57:48,480 --> 00:57:50,000
if we grossly mismanage the funds, we're

1354
00:57:50,000 --> 00:57:51,920
all going to prison. So,

1355
00:57:51,920 --> 00:57:55,119
>> well, and that's the thing. There's a big difference between

1356
00:57:55,119 --> 00:57:56,160
>> You're clear.

1357
00:57:56,160 --> 00:57:57,599
>> There's a big difference between a

1358
00:57:57,599 --> 00:58:00,720
simple mistake like typographical error

1359
00:58:00,720 --> 00:58:04,640
and intentional gross mismanagement. Um,

1360
00:58:04,640 --> 00:58:07,119
I don't do labor law. my firm does, but

1361
00:58:07,119 --> 00:58:09,280
we did prepare a memo and I I don't know

1362
00:58:09,280 --> 00:58:10,960
if that was sent to you, Noel, if it was

1363
00:58:10,960 --> 00:58:13,760
sent to the town manager, but it it

1364
00:58:13,760 --> 00:58:15,920
talks about all of the possible

1365
00:58:15,920 --> 00:58:19,680
personnel um issues that could occur and

1366
00:58:19,680 --> 00:58:22,559
the various responsibilities of the

1367
00:58:22,559 --> 00:58:24,319
library, the library director, the

1368
00:58:24,319 --> 00:58:27,119
board, and it kind of sets out all of

1369
00:58:27,119 --> 00:58:29,760
the legal ramifications and what would

1370
00:58:29,760 --> 00:58:31,280
happen if, you know, sort of all these

1371
00:58:31,280 --> 00:58:33,760
different scenarios. and I can check the

1372
00:58:33,760 --> 00:58:35,440
status of that and see who that was sent

1373
00:58:35,440 --> 00:58:36,880
to and if that's something that could be

1374
00:58:36,880 --> 00:58:37,280
shared.

1375
00:58:37,280 --> 00:58:39,599
>> So, the town manager does have that. And

1376
00:58:39,599 --> 00:58:41,440
so, she we're going to hopefully meet

1377
00:58:41,440 --> 00:58:43,760
within the next week. Noah and I will

1378
00:58:43,760 --> 00:58:45,599
meet with her hopefully within the next

1379
00:58:45,599 --> 00:58:48,640
week or so to go over the memo and then

1380
00:58:48,640 --> 00:58:50,480
it'll

1381
00:58:50,480 --> 00:58:52,480
be out in the wild, I guess.

1382
00:58:52,480 --> 00:58:54,000
>> Okay.

1383
00:58:54,000 --> 00:58:55,760
Shared.

1384
00:58:55,760 --> 00:58:57,839
And on that note, she did want me to go

1385
00:58:57,839 --> 00:58:59,599
over I know some of you, like I said,

1386
00:58:59,599 --> 00:59:01,119
some of you were at the training, but

1387
00:59:01,119 --> 00:59:04,000
she um we discussed just talking about

1388
00:59:04,000 --> 00:59:05,680
some of the open meeting law things that

1389
00:59:05,680 --> 00:59:07,920
we discussed at the training, and I know

1390
00:59:07,920 --> 00:59:09,359
you have other things on your agenda, so

1391
00:59:09,359 --> 00:59:10,240
I won't go through the whole

1392
00:59:10,240 --> 00:59:11,680
presentation because it was on a number

1393
00:59:11,680 --> 00:59:14,160
of topics, but um but the open meeting

1394
00:59:14,160 --> 00:59:16,480
law changed a few years. Well, gosh,

1395
00:59:16,480 --> 00:59:20,480
it's like 15 years ago now. and it came

1396
00:59:20,480 --> 00:59:23,119
up with a definition of a meeting which

1397
00:59:23,119 --> 00:59:25,760
is and this is important because if

1398
00:59:25,760 --> 00:59:27,920
you're not meeting like right now is

1399
00:59:27,920 --> 00:59:29,920
sort of a training I' I've just switched

1400
00:59:29,920 --> 00:59:31,839
into from answering your indemnification

1401
00:59:31,839 --> 00:59:34,000
question to kind of just going over some

1402
00:59:34,000 --> 00:59:38,240
general things even if we have a quorum

1403
00:59:38,240 --> 00:59:39,920
and if it was locked and the public

1404
00:59:39,920 --> 00:59:41,680
couldn't come in it's not a violation of

1405
00:59:41,680 --> 00:59:43,200
the open meeting law because a training

1406
00:59:43,200 --> 00:59:45,280
is not subject to the open meeting law

1407
00:59:45,280 --> 00:59:47,280
the definition is a meeting has to be a

1408
00:59:47,280 --> 00:59:49,839
deliberation by a public body with

1409
00:59:49,839 --> 00:59:52,240
respect to any matter within the body's

1410
00:59:52,240 --> 00:59:54,720
jurisdiction. There has to be a quorum

1411
00:59:54,720 --> 00:59:57,119
of the public body which we have here.

1412
00:59:57,119 --> 00:59:59,440
Uh it must be related to any public

1413
00:59:59,440 --> 01:00:01,359
business within the public body's

1414
01:00:01,359 --> 01:00:04,000
jurisdiction and the deliber it has to

1415
01:00:04,000 --> 01:00:06,079
involve deliberation and a vote.

1416
01:00:06,079 --> 01:00:08,240
Deliberation is a communication either

1417
01:00:08,240 --> 01:00:10,720
oral or written through any medium

1418
01:00:10,720 --> 01:00:12,559
including email. And that's something

1419
01:00:12,559 --> 01:00:15,119
that had to be clarified in the new open

1420
01:00:15,119 --> 01:00:17,200
meeting law when it was because when

1421
01:00:17,200 --> 01:00:19,359
email became a thing, people didn't seem

1422
01:00:19,359 --> 01:00:21,359
to think that that was governed by the

1423
01:00:21,359 --> 01:00:23,440
open meeting law. So people were board

1424
01:00:23,440 --> 01:00:25,040
members were sending each other emails.

1425
01:00:25,040 --> 01:00:26,799
What do you think about this? Or and

1426
01:00:26,799 --> 01:00:28,240
sometimes they'd send it to the whole

1427
01:00:28,240 --> 01:00:29,920
board and ask for people to comment

1428
01:00:29,920 --> 01:00:32,160
back. No, that's a complete and direct

1429
01:00:32,160 --> 01:00:34,319
violation of the open meeting law. So

1430
01:00:34,319 --> 01:00:36,799
then people started doing what's

1431
01:00:36,799 --> 01:00:39,119
considered serial communications. One

1432
01:00:39,119 --> 01:00:40,960
member would send an email to another

1433
01:00:40,960 --> 01:00:42,079
member. What do you think of this? I

1434
01:00:42,079 --> 01:00:43,680
don't know. Let me ask. So, and and it

1435
01:00:43,680 --> 01:00:45,520
would go from one board member to the

1436
01:00:45,520 --> 01:00:47,119
next. And there's case law on that where

1437
01:00:47,119 --> 01:00:50,480
people got sanctioned for intentionally

1438
01:00:50,480 --> 01:00:52,160
violating the open meeting law by doing

1439
01:00:52,160 --> 01:00:53,920
that. So, you have to be careful, you

1440
01:00:53,920 --> 01:00:55,280
know, when you're emailing, you have to

1441
01:00:55,280 --> 01:00:58,160
remember if you send something oops to

1442
01:00:58,160 --> 01:01:01,040
the entire board, put on the bottom like

1443
01:01:01,040 --> 01:01:02,559
if it's if you're giving something out

1444
01:01:02,559 --> 01:01:03,920
for the next meeting, just put on the

1445
01:01:03,920 --> 01:01:06,640
bottom, please do not reply. And then

1446
01:01:06,640 --> 01:01:08,480
you're not going to have a violation of

1447
01:01:08,480 --> 01:01:11,520
the open meeting law. Um, volunteers are

1448
01:01:11,520 --> 01:01:13,280
subject to the open meeting law just

1449
01:01:13,280 --> 01:01:15,839
like town board members which didn't

1450
01:01:15,839 --> 01:01:19,839
used to be. Um, notice is important and

1451
01:01:19,839 --> 01:01:21,520
I saw you guys did have an agenda for

1452
01:01:21,520 --> 01:01:23,440
tonight. It was posted I believe I

1453
01:01:23,440 --> 01:01:24,880
didn't check when it was posted but it's

1454
01:01:24,880 --> 01:01:27,760
got to be posted within 48 hours. One of

1455
01:01:27,760 --> 01:01:30,160
the changes to the open meeting law and

1456
01:01:30,160 --> 01:01:32,640
I've been doing this for 33 years so I

1457
01:01:32,640 --> 01:01:35,280
have seen how how things have changed in

1458
01:01:35,280 --> 01:01:37,599
terms of posting. It used to be that

1459
01:01:37,599 --> 01:01:40,880
weekends were counted and that ended up

1460
01:01:40,880 --> 01:01:42,640
not really being fair a lot of the time

1461
01:01:42,640 --> 01:01:44,960
because some you'd post something on a

1462
01:01:44,960 --> 01:01:47,839
Friday afternoon for a Monday meeting

1463
01:01:47,839 --> 01:01:49,440
and many people wouldn't know anything

1464
01:01:49,440 --> 01:01:51,680
about it because they were away for the

1465
01:01:51,680 --> 01:01:53,040
weekend or they just weren't checking

1466
01:01:53,040 --> 01:01:55,440
anything. So now weekends don't count

1467
01:01:55,440 --> 01:01:57,760
towards the posting. So if you post

1468
01:01:57,760 --> 01:01:59,440
something on a Friday, you can't have

1469
01:01:59,440 --> 01:02:01,760
that meeting until Wednesday and you've

1470
01:02:01,760 --> 01:02:04,079
got to post it in many more places than

1471
01:02:04,079 --> 01:02:06,400
used to be posted. Um, and every town's

1472
01:02:06,400 --> 01:02:07,520
different. You can, if you have a

1473
01:02:07,520 --> 01:02:09,359
website, fine. But there are still

1474
01:02:09,359 --> 01:02:10,960
towns, mostly out in western

1475
01:02:10,960 --> 01:02:12,720
Massachusetts, and I've represented many

1476
01:02:12,720 --> 01:02:16,640
of them, where they have no website.

1477
01:02:16,640 --> 01:02:19,520
They have no electronic means of

1478
01:02:19,520 --> 01:02:22,079
publication of anything. Um, the town

1479
01:02:22,079 --> 01:02:24,000
clerk takes the files home for the

1480
01:02:24,000 --> 01:02:26,319
weekend. And, you know, some of these

1481
01:02:26,319 --> 01:02:28,079
are just really small towns and they

1482
01:02:28,079 --> 01:02:30,160
don't have this capacity. So the

1483
01:02:30,160 --> 01:02:32,400
revisions to the open meeting law made

1484
01:02:32,400 --> 01:02:36,000
it okay to have a notebook in a place

1485
01:02:36,000 --> 01:02:37,920
that people could visit like the police

1486
01:02:37,920 --> 01:02:39,520
department. So you could town hall

1487
01:02:39,520 --> 01:02:41,599
business could be posted in a paper

1488
01:02:41,599 --> 01:02:43,200
notebook at the police department and

1489
01:02:43,200 --> 01:02:44,720
that would be that was considered

1490
01:02:44,720 --> 01:02:48,000
sufficient. Um when you have your

1491
01:02:48,000 --> 01:02:49,839
meeting you, as I said, you have to have

1492
01:02:49,839 --> 01:02:53,040
an agenda. Put the public session items

1493
01:02:53,040 --> 01:02:55,760
on the agenda. public comment, which I

1494
01:02:55,760 --> 01:02:57,760
know a lot of towns like Danvers does

1495
01:02:57,760 --> 01:03:01,119
have public comment and some towns have

1496
01:03:01,119 --> 01:03:02,640
it at the very beginning of the meeting

1497
01:03:02,640 --> 01:03:07,359
and that causes the meeting to go on and on because people come and speak

1498
01:03:07,359 --> 01:03:08,960
early, you know, before everybody's

1499
01:03:08,960 --> 01:03:11,200
tired. Um, what I've often recommended

1500
01:03:11,200 --> 01:03:12,640
is because people don't really

1501
01:03:12,640 --> 01:03:14,720
understand, if there's a matter on the

1502
01:03:14,720 --> 01:03:16,480
agenda for later in the evening and you

1503
01:03:16,480 --> 01:03:18,880
get up and speak and your whatever your

1504
01:03:18,880 --> 01:03:20,319
position is on at the beginning of the

1505
01:03:20,319 --> 01:03:22,160
meeting and then you go home, you're not

1506
01:03:22,160 --> 01:03:23,920
going to be your testimony will not be

1507
01:03:23,920 --> 01:03:26,559
counted as part of the record of

1508
01:03:26,559 --> 01:03:28,640
whatever that discussion item was. And

1509
01:03:28,640 --> 01:03:30,079
if it's you're at the select board and

1510
01:03:30,079 --> 01:03:32,000
the select board vote on something and

1511
01:03:32,000 --> 01:03:33,440
somebody doesn't like it and you want to

1512
01:03:33,440 --> 01:03:36,079
appeal their decision, your testimony is

1513
01:03:36,079 --> 01:03:37,440
not going to be part of it. If you made

1514
01:03:37,440 --> 01:03:39,280
it in the beginning at public comment,

1515
01:03:39,280 --> 01:03:41,359
you've got to talk at the time that

1516
01:03:41,359 --> 01:03:43,440
they're having the particular discussion

1517
01:03:43,440 --> 01:03:47,920
item. Um, executive session is something

1518
01:03:47,920 --> 01:03:50,880
to be really careful about what you what

1519
01:03:50,880 --> 01:03:53,280
you use executive session for. the

1520
01:03:53,280 --> 01:03:55,039
reasons. There used to be eight and now

1521
01:03:55,039 --> 01:03:56,799
there are 10, but a couple of them they

1522
01:03:56,799 --> 01:03:59,280
just sort of moved around. Um, you can

1523
01:03:59,280 --> 01:04:01,119
go into executive session to discuss

1524
01:04:01,119 --> 01:04:03,760
litigation strategy. You can also go

1525
01:04:03,760 --> 01:04:06,400
into it to discuss reputation,

1526
01:04:06,400 --> 01:04:08,559
character, physical condition, or mental

1527
01:04:08,559 --> 01:04:10,640
health of an individual, but not

1528
01:04:10,640 --> 01:04:12,880
professional competence. So, you don't

1529
01:04:12,880 --> 01:04:16,000
do like performance reviews. Um, real

1530
01:04:16,000 --> 01:04:18,319
estate appraisals because that could

1531
01:04:18,319 --> 01:04:19,760
affect the bargaining position of the

1532
01:04:19,760 --> 01:04:21,359
town. That can be done in executive

1533
01:04:21,359 --> 01:04:23,280
session. There's a there's a whole list

1534
01:04:23,280 --> 01:04:27,520
on chapter 38 section 21. Um

1535
01:04:27,520 --> 01:04:29,359
the chair

1536
01:04:29,359 --> 01:04:31,920
handles the meeting and makes any rules

1537
01:04:31,920 --> 01:04:33,680
as far as like how long people can

1538
01:04:33,680 --> 01:04:35,039
speak. If you have the type of meeting

1539
01:04:35,039 --> 01:04:36,240
where a lot of people want to come and

1540
01:04:36,240 --> 01:04:37,599
talk, whether it's select board or one

1541
01:04:37,599 --> 01:04:39,920
of the land use boards, you just have to

1542
01:04:39,920 --> 01:04:41,920
be fair. So if you give three minutes

1543
01:04:41,920 --> 01:04:44,079
for each person, don't give somebody 10

1544
01:04:44,079 --> 01:04:46,400
minutes. Don't cut somebody else off.

1545
01:04:46,400 --> 01:04:49,359
Some towns allow people to um yield

1546
01:04:49,359 --> 01:04:51,200
their time to somebody else. sometimes

1547
01:04:51,200 --> 01:04:52,799
say, "No, that's not fair. Everybody

1548
01:04:52,799 --> 01:04:57,200
gets the same amount of time." And

1549
01:04:57,200 --> 01:04:59,119
you shouldn't be this. You guys talked

1550
01:04:59,119 --> 01:05:00,400
about this earlier tonight and you're

1551
01:05:00,400 --> 01:05:02,559
absolutely correct that if people are

1552
01:05:02,559 --> 01:05:05,039
putting things on your website that are

1553
01:05:05,039 --> 01:05:07,119
rude and you want to respond to them,

1554
01:05:07,119 --> 01:05:09,039
don't because you're going to get

1555
01:05:09,039 --> 01:05:11,280
yourself into a constitutional issue.

1556
01:05:11,280 --> 01:05:14,319
There was a there was a case um I'm

1557
01:05:14,319 --> 01:05:15,520
forgetting the name of it now, but there

1558
01:05:15,520 --> 01:05:17,280
was a case out in like Minnesota or

1559
01:05:17,280 --> 01:05:20,160
somewhere in the Midwest where there was

1560
01:05:20,160 --> 01:05:22,400
a person who I believe was a city

1561
01:05:22,400 --> 01:05:25,280
councelor who got into a got into a

1562
01:05:25,280 --> 01:05:28,000
fight basically on Facebook with one of

1563
01:05:28,000 --> 01:05:30,079
his constituents and responded to things

1564
01:05:30,079 --> 01:05:32,480
the person said. And there was a lawsuit

1565
01:05:32,480 --> 01:05:35,359
brought and it was really it it kind of

1566
01:05:35,359 --> 01:05:37,200
restricted what municipal officials can

1567
01:05:37,200 --> 01:05:39,680
do because you've got to be clear when

1568
01:05:39,680 --> 01:05:43,200
you have a Facebook page. If it's as an

1569
01:05:43,200 --> 01:05:45,039
official then you got to make that clear

1570
01:05:45,039 --> 01:05:46,640
and and that you're talking about town

1571
01:05:46,640 --> 01:05:49,280
business. That's fine. But you can't One

1572
01:05:49,280 --> 01:05:50,960
of the things that this person did was

1573
01:05:50,960 --> 01:05:53,280
he blocked somebody. You can't do that.

1574
01:05:53,280 --> 01:05:54,799
If you're going to have a Facebook page

1575
01:05:54,799 --> 01:05:56,960
as in your official position, you got to

1576
01:05:56,960 --> 01:05:59,520
let people speak. This individual also

1577
01:05:59,520 --> 01:06:01,280
had pictures of his kids and talked

1578
01:06:01,280 --> 01:06:03,119
about his hobbies and and argued that it

1579
01:06:03,119 --> 01:06:05,440
was a personal Facebook page, but it

1580
01:06:05,440 --> 01:06:08,000
blurred because he also had statements

1581
01:06:08,000 --> 01:06:10,319
about things the municipality was doing.

1582
01:06:10,319 --> 01:06:12,400
So, you just have to be really careful

1583
01:06:12,400 --> 01:06:13,920
and and make sure that there's that

1584
01:06:13,920 --> 01:06:16,240
clear line. If it's if it's yourself as

1585
01:06:16,240 --> 01:06:18,559
a political official, you can't cut

1586
01:06:18,559 --> 01:06:21,200
people off. Um and that's that's sim

1587
01:06:21,200 --> 01:06:23,520
similar slightly different to a case

1588
01:06:23,520 --> 01:06:25,039
that happened a few years ago in

1589
01:06:25,039 --> 01:06:28,960
Southboro which um Baron versus Kenda

1590
01:06:28,960 --> 01:06:31,520
and that was kind of scary because you

1591
01:06:31,520 --> 01:06:34,240
want people to act civily

1592
01:06:34,240 --> 01:06:38,000
but you have to allow people to speak um

1593
01:06:38,000 --> 01:06:40,640
under constitutional law and in that

1594
01:06:40,640 --> 01:06:43,760
situation the select board stifled

1595
01:06:43,760 --> 01:06:46,319
somebody from talking and even if you

1596
01:06:46,319 --> 01:06:48,400
know if you read the case and you see

1597
01:06:48,400 --> 01:06:50,400
what the I believe it was a woman. There

1598
01:06:50,400 --> 01:06:51,359
might have been more than one person,

1599
01:06:51,359 --> 01:06:55,599
but um she said some offensive things

1600
01:06:55,599 --> 01:06:58,240
and yet the court it went up to the

1601
01:06:58,240 --> 01:07:00,000
Supreme Judicial Court found that the

1602
01:07:00,000 --> 01:07:03,280
board should not have been um cutting

1603
01:07:03,280 --> 01:07:06,160
off the meeting and having you know an

1604
01:07:06,160 --> 01:07:08,720
adjournment right when they didn't like

1605
01:07:08,720 --> 01:07:10,640
what somebody was saying. So, it's a

1606
01:07:10,640 --> 01:07:14,000
fine line, but you can't. Unfortunately,

1607
01:07:14,000 --> 01:07:16,319
now based on that case, we advise

1608
01:07:16,319 --> 01:07:18,079
municipal officials to just be careful.

1609
01:07:18,079 --> 01:07:19,920
If someone's speaking, let them speak.

1610
01:07:19,920 --> 01:07:21,680
Don't yell back and call them names just

1611
01:07:21,680 --> 01:07:24,079
cuz they're calling you names. Um, have

1612
01:07:24,079 --> 01:07:25,760
a police officer there so that things

1613
01:07:25,760 --> 01:07:28,160
don't get physical. But unfortunately,

1614
01:07:28,160 --> 01:07:30,160
you got to let people speak. Um, on the

1615
01:07:30,160 --> 01:07:33,359
other side of that, I've seen many towns

1616
01:07:33,359 --> 01:07:36,480
start their meetings with an explanation

1617
01:07:36,480 --> 01:07:38,559
that, and I'm pretty sure Danver does

1618
01:07:38,559 --> 01:07:41,440
this as well, a town meeting, um, that

1619
01:07:41,440 --> 01:07:43,119
let's be civil, let's conduct our

1620
01:07:43,119 --> 01:07:44,720
business tonight, and let's all be kind

1621
01:07:44,720 --> 01:07:46,160
to each other and not make this

1622
01:07:46,160 --> 01:07:47,920
personal. And I think those are really

1623
01:07:47,920 --> 01:07:49,440
helpful to start the meeting out that

1624
01:07:49,440 --> 01:07:51,039
way because then it kind of reminds

1625
01:07:51,039 --> 01:07:52,480
everybody why you're really there.

1626
01:07:52,480 --> 01:07:54,000
You're there to do whatever your mission

1627
01:07:54,000 --> 01:07:57,119
is on the board that you're on.

1628
01:07:57,119 --> 01:08:00,160
Um, oh, and the chair, you guys are

1629
01:08:00,160 --> 01:08:02,160
probably not typically, I mean, this I

1630
01:08:02,160 --> 01:08:04,000
should say this board, you're not in a

1631
01:08:04,000 --> 01:08:05,440
position where you're voting on

1632
01:08:05,440 --> 01:08:07,920
applications and that sort of thing, but

1633
01:08:07,920 --> 01:08:10,319
I've heard many municipal boards say

1634
01:08:10,319 --> 01:08:12,240
that they thought the chair was not

1635
01:08:12,240 --> 01:08:13,920
allowed to vote except in the case of

1636
01:08:13,920 --> 01:08:16,480
breaking a tie. And a lot of towns think

1637
01:08:16,480 --> 01:08:18,080
that. A lot of towns up in this area

1638
01:08:18,080 --> 01:08:19,199
that I've represented, and I've

1639
01:08:19,199 --> 01:08:20,719
explained to them, no, that's not the

1640
01:08:20,719 --> 01:08:22,960
case. Sometimes it's a good idea for the

1641
01:08:22,960 --> 01:08:25,040
chair to wait and vote last because

1642
01:08:25,040 --> 01:08:26,319
especially if it's someone who's been on

1643
01:08:26,319 --> 01:08:27,359
the chair, like a few of you have

1644
01:08:27,359 --> 01:08:28,640
mentioned, you've been on this board for

1645
01:08:28,640 --> 01:08:30,960
30 years. So other newer members might

1646
01:08:30,960 --> 01:08:33,040
look to you and want to copy how you

1647
01:08:33,040 --> 01:08:35,040
vote or just might, you know, sort of

1648
01:08:35,040 --> 01:08:36,960
listen to what you say and want to sort

1649
01:08:36,960 --> 01:08:39,920
of support what you say. So a lot of

1650
01:08:39,920 --> 01:08:41,839
times the chairs will wait. Chairs

1651
01:08:41,839 --> 01:08:43,359
who've been doing it for a while might

1652
01:08:43,359 --> 01:08:45,920
wait and vote at the end, but you're not

1653
01:08:45,920 --> 01:08:48,400
prohibited from v voting. You're just,

1654
01:08:48,400 --> 01:08:49,839
you know, you're not there just to break

1655
01:08:49,839 --> 01:08:53,440
a tie. Um,

1656
01:08:53,440 --> 01:08:54,880
so rather than go through the whole rest

1657
01:08:54,880 --> 01:08:57,679
of this, were there specific

1658
01:08:57,679 --> 01:09:00,560
topics that you all had questions about

1659
01:09:00,560 --> 01:09:05,839
or I I don't think so and I think the executive session one was timely

1660
01:09:05,839 --> 01:09:07,520
just because we were going to the next

1661
01:09:07,520 --> 01:09:09,839
item was the director's review and so

1662
01:09:09,839 --> 01:09:11,199
that was a very helpful explanation

1663
01:09:11,199 --> 01:09:13,520
about why we're doing that as an open

1664
01:09:13,520 --> 01:09:14,960
meeting and what the parameters are for

1665
01:09:14,960 --> 01:09:16,239
that discussion. So I thought that was

1666
01:09:16,239 --> 01:09:16,880
really helpful.

1667
01:09:16,880 --> 01:09:18,560
>> Yeah, I saw that on the agenda. Yep.

1668
01:09:18,560 --> 01:09:19,359
>> Um,

1669
01:09:19,359 --> 01:09:22,640
>> I have one, Mr. Chairman, uh discussion

1670
01:09:22,640 --> 01:09:27,920
by uh this board about employees by name

1671
01:09:27,920 --> 01:09:30,319
or medical conditions

1672
01:09:30,319 --> 01:09:32,000
or when they're going to be back to

1673
01:09:32,000 --> 01:09:35,679
work, things like that.

1674
01:09:35,679 --> 01:09:37,679
What's the question?

1675
01:09:37,679 --> 01:09:40,080
>> We can't do that, right? Discuss people,

1676
01:09:40,080 --> 01:09:41,040
personnel,

1677
01:09:41,040 --> 01:09:44,960
>> you HIPPA made that um

1678
01:09:44,960 --> 01:09:46,400
yeah, you you got to be really careful

1679
01:09:46,400 --> 01:09:48,000
what you talk about. I mean, the HIPPA

1680
01:09:48,000 --> 01:09:51,600
law really it applies to insurance

1681
01:09:51,600 --> 01:09:54,400
companies and medical providers.

1682
01:09:54,400 --> 01:09:56,320
So, nobody else can be liable for

1683
01:09:56,320 --> 01:09:58,800
talking. It's just it's not appropriate.

1684
01:09:58,800 --> 01:10:00,400
It's personal information. And that's

1685
01:10:00,400 --> 01:10:01,520
one of the things under the public

1686
01:10:01,520 --> 01:10:04,000
records law. Medical information as well

1687
01:10:04,000 --> 01:10:07,280
as social security numbers, birth dates,

1688
01:10:07,280 --> 01:10:10,159
um cell phone numbers even and addresses

1689
01:10:10,159 --> 01:10:13,440
are not something to be made public. But

1690
01:10:13,440 --> 01:10:15,920
it's not a good practice to talk about

1691
01:10:15,920 --> 01:10:18,960
th this board first of all isn't in

1692
01:10:18,960 --> 01:10:21,280
charge of you pick the director but

1693
01:10:21,280 --> 01:10:22,640
other than that you're not in charge of

1694
01:10:22,640 --> 01:10:25,040
the other employees. So you should not

1695
01:10:25,040 --> 01:10:28,320
be talking about um medical situations

1696
01:10:28,320 --> 01:10:31,520
and if somebody is on a leave you could

1697
01:10:31,520 --> 01:10:33,920
inquire as to when that person if that

1698
01:10:33,920 --> 01:10:36,159
person will be back and when in case

1699
01:10:36,159 --> 01:10:37,600
you're in a position where you need to

1700
01:10:37,600 --> 01:10:39,440
hire somebody. But my understanding is

1701
01:10:39,440 --> 01:10:41,040
that's not a role of this board but

1702
01:10:41,040 --> 01:10:44,719
correct me if I'm wrong. Okay,

1703
01:10:44,719 --> 01:10:48,159
>> I have a clarifying question. Um, I

1704
01:10:48,159 --> 01:10:50,159
totally understand like speaking about

1705
01:10:50,159 --> 01:10:52,560
private personal information about um,

1706
01:10:52,560 --> 01:10:55,280
employees in a board meeting is against

1707
01:10:55,280 --> 01:10:58,880
law. Um, but there has been it has been

1708
01:10:58,880 --> 01:11:00,960
suggested that

1709
01:11:00,960 --> 01:11:03,600
so much as speaking an employees name

1710
01:11:03,600 --> 01:11:06,159
could be a violation somehow of open

1711
01:11:06,159 --> 01:11:08,960
meeting law. Um, which I think

1712
01:11:08,960 --> 01:11:10,880
unfortunately we just need to clarify

1713
01:11:10,880 --> 01:11:13,600
that a little bit. In our normal course

1714
01:11:13,600 --> 01:11:16,000
of business, we mention employees by

1715
01:11:16,000 --> 01:11:18,000
name. Um, your director's report

1716
01:11:18,000 --> 01:11:20,880
frequently has specific employees,

1717
01:11:20,880 --> 01:11:22,320
recognitions that they've earned,

1718
01:11:22,320 --> 01:11:24,560
sometimes even things that are not like

1719
01:11:24,560 --> 01:11:26,400
it's like an outside recognition from

1720
01:11:26,400 --> 01:11:27,120
another

1721
01:11:27,120 --> 01:11:28,080
>> right operational

1722
01:11:28,080 --> 01:11:30,239
>> organization. Yes. So

1723
01:11:30,239 --> 01:11:34,080
>> we we do as part and parcel of our

1724
01:11:34,080 --> 01:11:36,400
normal function, normal duties,

1725
01:11:36,400 --> 01:11:38,560
occasionally mention employees by name.

1726
01:11:38,560 --> 01:11:40,320
And I can think of other situations

1727
01:11:40,320 --> 01:11:41,840
where

1728
01:11:41,840 --> 01:11:44,320
using a name, for example, if an

1729
01:11:44,320 --> 01:11:48,080
employee went to the press and spoke

1730
01:11:48,080 --> 01:11:51,120
about her experience or their experience

1731
01:11:51,120 --> 01:11:56,320
as a li as an employee of this library.

1732
01:11:56,320 --> 01:11:57,920
My understanding is that it wouldn't be

1733
01:11:57,920 --> 01:12:00,880
against the law for us to in this

1734
01:12:00,880 --> 01:12:03,520
meeting say we need to respond to the

1735
01:12:03,520 --> 01:12:06,159
comments that were made by this person

1736
01:12:06,159 --> 01:12:07,840
publicly.

1737
01:12:07,840 --> 01:12:11,280
We need to or like um you know there's a

1738
01:12:11,280 --> 01:12:14,239
question of are you know is this

1739
01:12:14,239 --> 01:12:15,920
affecting the reputation of the library?

1740
01:12:15,920 --> 01:12:18,080
certain things like that where we would

1741
01:12:18,080 --> 01:12:20,480
perhaps deliberate

1742
01:12:20,480 --> 01:12:22,320
on

1743
01:12:22,320 --> 01:12:25,920
some aspect that's not personal health

1744
01:12:25,920 --> 01:12:29,120
information or anything of that nature.

1745
01:12:29,120 --> 01:12:32,000
>> Can you speak at all to the

1746
01:12:32,000 --> 01:12:34,080
>> the first situation you were talking

1747
01:12:34,080 --> 01:12:35,679
about sounded more to me like

1748
01:12:35,679 --> 01:12:37,600
commendations for people talking about

1749
01:12:37,600 --> 01:12:41,679
good things that um people have done and

1750
01:12:41,679 --> 01:12:43,440
that's fine. That's that's never a

1751
01:12:43,440 --> 01:12:45,760
problem. But negative things about

1752
01:12:45,760 --> 01:12:48,400
people um it kind of comes back to what

1753
01:12:48,400 --> 01:12:50,719
is the role of the library board? Do you

1754
01:12:50,719 --> 01:12:52,560
hire and fire the staff? And my

1755
01:12:52,560 --> 01:12:53,840
understanding was that that's all up to

1756
01:12:53,840 --> 01:12:56,480
the library director. So no, you don't

1757
01:12:56,480 --> 01:12:57,440
have a role.

1758
01:12:57,440 --> 01:12:58,400
>> Yeah. No, I think um

1759
01:12:58,400 --> 01:12:59,920
>> but your example of

1760
01:12:59,920 --> 01:13:03,679
>> I think to clarify my example, I would

1761
01:13:03,679 --> 01:13:05,440
suggest that the conversation would not

1762
01:13:05,440 --> 01:13:08,640
be about that the person the cat like

1763
01:13:08,640 --> 01:13:12,000
whatever it was the um the actual

1764
01:13:12,000 --> 01:13:13,520
employee but more about

1765
01:13:13,520 --> 01:13:15,040
>> the reputation. Yeah, that's what I was

1766
01:13:15,040 --> 01:13:19,199
about to address. So like can we if it's affected by something that's

1767
01:13:19,199 --> 01:13:20,880
happened where we have to just at least

1768
01:13:20,880 --> 01:13:23,920
acknowledge the thing that happened and

1769
01:13:23,920 --> 01:13:26,880
then move on to discussing our duties

1770
01:13:26,880 --> 01:13:29,199
which is the reputation of the library

1771
01:13:29,199 --> 01:13:29,920
is one of them

1772
01:13:29,920 --> 01:13:34,800
>> and policies Exactly. Thank you. But

1773
01:13:34,800 --> 01:13:36,800
again correct me if I'm wrong on my

1774
01:13:36,800 --> 01:13:38,719
understanding of what the trustees do

1775
01:13:38,719 --> 01:13:41,040
versus what the library director does.

1776
01:13:41,040 --> 01:13:43,120
My understanding with the information

1777
01:13:43,120 --> 01:13:45,040
I've been provided is that she does the

1778
01:13:45,040 --> 01:13:48,320
hiring, supervising of all personnel and

1779
01:13:48,320 --> 01:13:51,120
implementation of policies. So it would

1780
01:13:51,120 --> 01:13:53,199
be appropriate to have a very brief

1781
01:13:53,199 --> 01:13:55,600
mention that oh I saw this person

1782
01:13:55,600 --> 01:13:57,840
commenting on the library and it gave a

1783
01:13:57,840 --> 01:14:01,440
negative impact or impression to people.

1784
01:14:01,440 --> 01:14:03,199
So could you do something about that

1785
01:14:03,199 --> 01:14:04,719
library director?

1786
01:14:04,719 --> 01:14:06,239
>> She implements the she implements the

1787
01:14:06,239 --> 01:14:08,400
policies but we we have to approve them,

1788
01:14:08,400 --> 01:14:09,920
right? Is that the

1789
01:14:09,920 --> 01:14:11,199
>> Yeah. We have

1790
01:14:11,199 --> 01:14:14,640
>> so without talking about a person just

1791
01:14:14,640 --> 01:14:16,080
there have been negative comments made

1792
01:14:16,080 --> 01:14:17,760
about the library and we don't like that

1793
01:14:17,760 --> 01:14:20,000
and we need to somehow get control over

1794
01:14:20,000 --> 01:14:22,480
that and have that stop. So we'd like to

1795
01:14:22,480 --> 01:14:25,840
implement these policies and

1796
01:14:25,840 --> 01:14:27,440
have a general discussion about that.

1797
01:14:27,440 --> 01:14:29,760
But you can't talk about people.

1798
01:14:29,760 --> 01:14:32,640
>> So can I just clarify? Well just

1799
01:14:32,640 --> 01:14:35,280
>> so basically this employee

1800
01:14:35,280 --> 01:14:38,400
felt disgruntled went to other boards

1801
01:14:38,400 --> 01:14:40,640
and and made a thing about it. I and I

1802
01:14:40,640 --> 01:14:43,120
what I saw before Mike if you don't mind

1803
01:14:43,120 --> 01:14:45,760
Mike's concern was and my understanding

1804
01:14:45,760 --> 01:14:47,760
was the fact that they actually said her

1805
01:14:47,760 --> 01:14:50,159
name out loud though her name was

1806
01:14:50,159 --> 01:14:51,920
everyone was aware of and she outed

1807
01:14:51,920 --> 01:14:54,080
herself was against the public meeting

1808
01:14:54,080 --> 01:14:55,760
laws. It's not against the public

1809
01:14:55,760 --> 01:15:00,159
meeting laws for us to mention her name,

1810
01:15:00,159 --> 01:15:03,199
especially since she she was out talking

1811
01:15:03,199 --> 01:15:05,199
to other groups about and in and the

1812
01:15:05,199 --> 01:15:07,840
town and and the reality is the staff

1813
01:15:07,840 --> 01:15:09,840
and how the staff feels and the policies

1814
01:15:09,840 --> 01:15:12,080
about the staff and the reputation is

1815
01:15:12,080 --> 01:15:13,440
something that we have to address.

1816
01:15:13,440 --> 01:15:14,640
>> The open meeting law is what you're

1817
01:15:14,640 --> 01:15:15,120
talking about.

1818
01:15:15,120 --> 01:15:16,880
>> Well, with the open meeting laws. Yes.

1819
01:15:16,880 --> 01:15:19,040
So, obviously we want to address there's

1820
01:15:19,040 --> 01:15:21,360
a disgruntled reason

1821
01:15:21,360 --> 01:15:23,199
>> went through the town process. It was a

1822
01:15:23,199 --> 01:15:25,679
struggle. Everybody knows her what her

1823
01:15:25,679 --> 01:15:27,600
name is when it happens. She wants

1824
01:15:27,600 --> 01:15:30,960
people to know. She's inviting the town

1825
01:15:30,960 --> 01:15:34,560
community in to see her struggle and for

1826
01:15:34,560 --> 01:15:36,800
how it was or was not addressed

1827
01:15:36,800 --> 01:15:38,560
appropriately.

1828
01:15:38,560 --> 01:15:42,400
It does fall in our lap basically and to

1829
01:15:42,400 --> 01:15:44,159
actually just mention her name is not

1830
01:15:44,159 --> 01:15:46,080
against the public meeting laws. It's

1831
01:15:46,080 --> 01:15:48,239
the obeying law

1832
01:15:48,239 --> 01:15:50,239
speaking negatively about anybody,

1833
01:15:50,239 --> 01:15:51,920
>> but it may not be appropriate or

1834
01:15:51,920 --> 01:15:54,480
professional to say that there was a

1835
01:15:54,480 --> 01:15:56,239
negative thing. And it wasn't that

1836
01:15:56,239 --> 01:15:57,840
anyone was saying anything negative

1837
01:15:57,840 --> 01:16:00,080
about it was basically this is what

1838
01:16:00,080 --> 01:16:01,440
happened to her.

1839
01:16:01,440 --> 01:16:04,400
>> It didn't go well. As a as the trustees,

1840
01:16:04,400 --> 01:16:06,960
we need to do better. And how do we do

1841
01:16:06,960 --> 01:16:09,199
better? The fact that her name was

1842
01:16:09,199 --> 01:16:10,560
mentioned, it's not against the public

1843
01:16:10,560 --> 01:16:11,679
meeting law.

1844
01:16:11,679 --> 01:16:12,640
>> Open meeting law.

1845
01:16:12,640 --> 01:16:15,280
That's it. is public

1846
01:16:15,280 --> 01:16:17,760
records law, open meeting law. The whole

1847
01:16:17,760 --> 01:16:19,360
point of it is transparency. That's why

1848
01:16:19,360 --> 01:16:20,080
they call it open.

1849
01:16:20,080 --> 01:16:22,480
>> Correct. So the open meeting law does

1850
01:16:22,480 --> 01:16:25,679
not say you cannot mention their names.

1851
01:16:25,679 --> 01:16:26,239
>> It just

1852
01:16:26,239 --> 01:16:27,840
>> it doesn't specifically say that, but

1853
01:16:27,840 --> 01:16:29,040
you could get in trouble for other

1854
01:16:29,040 --> 01:16:31,440
reasons for talking about people.

1855
01:16:31,440 --> 01:16:31,920
Correct.

1856
01:16:31,920 --> 01:16:32,960
>> For mentioning people's names

1857
01:16:32,960 --> 01:16:34,640
negatively. And you got to look at what

1858
01:16:34,640 --> 01:16:37,600
your role is and if it's if

1859
01:16:37,600 --> 01:16:41,360
>> it's not to hire and fire or

1860
01:16:41,360 --> 01:16:43,760
>> um it was it had to do with that. It had

1861
01:16:43,760 --> 01:16:45,440
nothing to do with that. The I just want

1862
01:16:45,440 --> 01:16:47,440
to clarify it's not against the open

1863
01:16:47,440 --> 01:16:48,800
public

1864
01:16:48,800 --> 01:16:52,880
>> open meeting law to say someone's name

1865
01:16:52,880 --> 01:16:55,920
>> and how you say it and how you use it

1866
01:16:55,920 --> 01:16:57,520
>> may or may matters.

1867
01:16:57,520 --> 01:16:59,040
>> Another thing to look at though as far

1868
01:16:59,040 --> 01:17:01,120
as the open meeting law the item has to

1869
01:17:01,120 --> 01:17:03,440
be on your agenda. You can't talk about

1870
01:17:03,440 --> 01:17:05,199
things that aren't on the agenda unless

1871
01:17:05,199 --> 01:17:07,120
there's something that the chair

1872
01:17:07,120 --> 01:17:08,000
>> old business

1873
01:17:08,000 --> 01:17:09,600
>> didn't reasonably foresee.

1874
01:17:09,600 --> 01:17:11,760
>> We always have a little old business or

1875
01:17:11,760 --> 01:17:14,560
there generally a reason, but in the big

1876
01:17:14,560 --> 01:17:17,199
scheme of things. I just want to clarify

1877
01:17:17,199 --> 01:17:20,560
that it's not against the open meeting.

1878
01:17:20,560 --> 01:17:22,560
>> It's not a specific thing outlined in

1879
01:17:22,560 --> 01:17:24,719
the open meeting law that you can't talk

1880
01:17:24,719 --> 01:17:28,880
about, but it does there is a limited um

1881
01:17:28,880 --> 01:17:30,239
description of what you're allowed to

1882
01:17:30,239 --> 01:17:32,159
talk about. And that's basically

1883
01:17:32,159 --> 01:17:34,239
employee evaluations if that's your

1884
01:17:34,239 --> 01:17:34,719
role.

1885
01:17:34,719 --> 01:17:35,360
>> That was not it.

1886
01:17:35,360 --> 01:17:36,560
>> But no, I know. But I'm just saying the

1887
01:17:36,560 --> 01:17:38,239
open meeting law doesn't they're not

1888
01:17:38,239 --> 01:17:39,199
going to say something like you can't

1889
01:17:39,199 --> 01:17:41,199
mention a person's name. But there are

1890
01:17:41,199 --> 01:17:44,080
many other statutes that govern if you

1891
01:17:44,080 --> 01:17:45,600
mention a person's name, depending on

1892
01:17:45,600 --> 01:17:47,440
what you're mentioning it for. Agreed.

1893
01:17:47,440 --> 01:17:49,120
You could be in trouble. But the open

1894
01:17:49,120 --> 01:17:51,920
meeting law just says the only re the

1895
01:17:51,920 --> 01:17:54,400
only thing you can talk about um public

1896
01:17:54,400 --> 01:17:56,400
session is an employee evaluation.

1897
01:17:56,400 --> 01:17:58,480
Everything else has to be done in

1898
01:17:58,480 --> 01:18:02,800
executive session. But beyond that and by everything else I mean the things

1899
01:18:02,800 --> 01:18:04,960
I said you know the the reputation

1900
01:18:04,960 --> 01:18:07,199
character somebody's done something

1901
01:18:07,199 --> 01:18:08,719
wrong the physical condition mental

1902
01:18:08,719 --> 01:18:11,120
health of an individual um all of that

1903
01:18:11,120 --> 01:18:12,080
>> in in the honest

1904
01:18:12,080 --> 01:18:14,239
>> and if you do that in executive session

1905
01:18:14,239 --> 01:18:16,800
you have to give the person notice and

1906
01:18:16,800 --> 01:18:18,640
they have to have an opportunity to be

1907
01:18:18,640 --> 01:18:20,800
present with counsel if they want

1908
01:18:20,800 --> 01:18:22,480
>> obviously and I'm gonna say it wasn't

1909
01:18:22,480 --> 01:18:24,080
really about her

1910
01:18:24,080 --> 01:18:25,920
>> I know I know it was about

1911
01:18:25,920 --> 01:18:26,960
>> it wasn't about her

1912
01:18:26,960 --> 01:18:28,080
>> information that was getting out there

1913
01:18:28,080 --> 01:18:29,679
>> it was about what happened.

1914
01:18:29,679 --> 01:18:30,000
>> Yeah.

1915
01:18:30,000 --> 01:18:32,000
>> So that that's the that's the the the

1916
01:18:32,000 --> 01:18:34,000
slice of we have to kind of

1917
01:18:34,000 --> 01:18:35,520
>> Yeah. And again, look at the open

1918
01:18:35,520 --> 01:18:36,640
meeting law, but you also have to look

1919
01:18:36,640 --> 01:18:38,880
at what your role is and what the role

1920
01:18:38,880 --> 01:18:40,159
of the library director is.

1921
01:18:40,159 --> 01:18:41,920
>> Yeah. I think I think we should

1922
01:18:41,920 --> 01:18:43,120
probably, unless there's any more

1923
01:18:43,120 --> 01:18:44,239
questions, I do want to make sure we

1924
01:18:44,239 --> 01:18:46,880
have time to get to the evaluation.

1925
01:18:46,880 --> 01:18:49,440
>> Um so I want to thank town council for

1926
01:18:49,440 --> 01:18:50,640
coming and answering all of our

1927
01:18:50,640 --> 01:18:53,120
questions. Pleas overview.

1928
01:18:53,120 --> 01:18:54,239
>> Thank you very much.

1929
01:18:54,239 --> 01:18:56,800
>> My pleasure. Good night all.

1930
01:18:56,800 --> 01:18:58,880
Um, so now we are going to move on to

1931
01:18:58,880 --> 01:19:02,239
the director's review. Um, which and I

1932
01:19:02,239 --> 01:19:03,760
think some folks had a chance to look at

1933
01:19:03,760 --> 01:19:05,440
it beforehand. Has everyone

1934
01:19:05,440 --> 01:19:10,229
>> had a chance to look at it?

1935
01:19:10,239 --> 01:19:10,800
» Yes. Okay.

1936
01:19:10,800 --> 01:19:12,719
>> Did you get one?

1937
01:19:12,719 --> 01:19:14,560
>> So, and again, you know, just as town

1938
01:19:14,560 --> 01:19:16,719
council was mentioning, you know,

1939
01:19:16,719 --> 01:19:18,480
>> we are able to do this meeting. We're

1940
01:19:18,480 --> 01:19:20,719
going to keep it focused on the um

1941
01:19:20,719 --> 01:19:22,560
content of the of the review. So, we

1942
01:19:22,560 --> 01:19:24,320
want to give folks a chance. And just as

1943
01:19:24,320 --> 01:19:27,679
a reminder, this was completed um with

1944
01:19:27,679 --> 01:19:30,320
Donna and Jess um completed the review.

1945
01:19:30,320 --> 01:19:31,360
I don't know if either of you wanted to

1946
01:19:31,360 --> 01:19:33,760
say anything before we just kind of open

1947
01:19:33,760 --> 01:19:38,550
it up to to questions or comments.

1948
01:19:38,560 --> 01:19:43,920
» Um sorry, also um no, just you know, we

1949
01:19:43,920 --> 01:19:47,760
just recognize how much work Noel has

1950
01:19:47,760 --> 01:19:50,640
done this past year in general and she's

1951
01:19:50,640 --> 01:19:53,840
done a great job. Um and that's sort of

1952
01:19:53,840 --> 01:19:56,239
reflected on what we have here. Um not

1953
01:19:56,239 --> 01:19:58,159
as much not much has changed from the

1954
01:19:58,159 --> 01:20:00,719
year before. Um we did add the

1955
01:20:00,719 --> 01:20:02,239
additional comments from board trustees

1956
01:20:02,239 --> 01:20:03,920
at the end of this so that we can add

1957
01:20:03,920 --> 01:20:06,159
any comments that you guys have to be

1958
01:20:06,159 --> 01:20:11,120
part of this um this review of her. So

1959
01:20:11,120 --> 01:20:14,960
um if there's any questions, comments,

1960
01:20:14,960 --> 01:20:16,640
additions that you want to add, please

1961
01:20:16,640 --> 01:20:19,360
feel free.

1962
01:20:19,360 --> 01:20:21,040
>> Um

1963
01:20:21,040 --> 01:20:25,120
I well managing the staff

1964
01:20:25,120 --> 01:20:28,560
um we've given a positive management

1965
01:20:28,560 --> 01:20:30,560
staff relations

1966
01:20:30,560 --> 01:20:32,800
I maintain and we've given a three and

1967
01:20:32,800 --> 01:20:35,920
it's to the best of my knowledge it's

1968
01:20:35,920 --> 01:20:39,600
been that every year if I'm not correct

1969
01:20:39,600 --> 01:20:43,760
feel free to but is there any has the

1970
01:20:43,760 --> 01:20:46,880
director been given any way that she

1971
01:20:46,880 --> 01:20:52,229
could make that a four next year.

1972
01:20:52,239 --> 01:20:54,239
» Well, what what would it take to be a

1973
01:20:54,239 --> 01:20:56,960
four next year?

1974
01:20:56,960 --> 01:20:58,239
>> I mean, I don't know if Donna or

1975
01:20:58,239 --> 01:21:00,560
Desalation

1976
01:21:00,560 --> 01:21:01,920
would want to comment on that.

1977
01:21:01,920 --> 01:21:04,800
>> So, I think

1978
01:21:04,800 --> 01:21:07,679
you want So, I think

1979
01:21:07,679 --> 01:21:09,199
with everything that's happened this

1980
01:21:09,199 --> 01:21:12,320
year, I think it's just been a a sort of

1981
01:21:12,320 --> 01:21:14,880
a learning curve year for for us as well

1982
01:21:14,880 --> 01:21:19,280
as Noel. And I think that, you know, the

1983
01:21:19,280 --> 01:21:22,640
path that's going on currently with HR

1984
01:21:22,640 --> 01:21:24,320
and stuff like that, I think that next

1985
01:21:24,320 --> 01:21:26,080
year,

1986
01:21:26,080 --> 01:21:28,400
this coming year, I think if she stays

1987
01:21:28,400 --> 01:21:30,159
the course, that that will be bumped up

1988
01:21:30,159 --> 01:21:34,159
to a four. Um it's just there's there's

1989
01:21:34,159 --> 01:21:36,880
been unforeseen things this past year

1990
01:21:36,880 --> 01:21:39,040
that I think that has been a challenge

1991
01:21:39,040 --> 01:21:43,199
and um she's work working towards the

1992
01:21:43,199 --> 01:21:48,000
improvement of that. So, um, and if

1993
01:21:48,000 --> 01:21:50,080
people disagree with that, that's fine,

1994
01:21:50,080 --> 01:21:50,800
too.

1995
01:21:50,800 --> 01:21:52,880
>> Did you want to add anything, Donna?

1996
01:21:52,880 --> 01:21:54,800
>> No, not really. Except that a three is

1997
01:21:54,800 --> 01:21:57,520
not bad. Um, it's that they consistently

1998
01:21:57,520 --> 01:21:59,360
meet performance expectations and they

1999
01:21:59,360 --> 01:22:01,280
perform in a professional and competent

2000
01:22:01,280 --> 01:22:05,199
manner, which he does. Um,

2001
01:22:05,199 --> 01:22:07,199
>> I just would like to see it a four next

2002
01:22:07,199 --> 01:22:08,719
year.

2003
01:22:08,719 --> 01:22:10,800
>> I'll work on it.

2004
01:22:10,800 --> 01:22:14,000
And and I know towards the

2005
01:22:14,000 --> 01:22:16,000
sort of earlier this year there were

2006
01:22:16,000 --> 01:22:17,840
some trainings done that were staffwide

2007
01:22:17,840 --> 01:22:21,760
that were I think you know

2008
01:22:21,760 --> 01:22:24,880
uh focused on morale inclusivity etc.

2009
01:22:24,880 --> 01:22:26,560
And I assume more of those trainings

2010
01:22:26,560 --> 01:22:28,880
will be coming through this in

2011
01:22:28,880 --> 01:22:30,639
throughout the rest of this year.

2012
01:22:30,639 --> 01:22:31,040
>> Yes.

2013
01:22:31,040 --> 01:22:32,719
>> Okay.

2014
01:22:32,719 --> 01:22:34,400
>> And we did recognize that many of those

2015
01:22:34,400 --> 01:22:36,719
trainings Noel brought up on her own.

2016
01:22:36,719 --> 01:22:39,360
She was not told by town council to do

2017
01:22:39,360 --> 01:22:40,239
them. Mhm.

2018
01:22:40,239 --> 01:22:44,239
>> So they were her initiative. So there's

2019
01:22:44,239 --> 01:22:46,080
other things in there too under managing

2020
01:22:46,080 --> 01:22:48,080
the staff and we gave her four for the

2021
01:22:48,080 --> 01:22:49,440
um

2022
01:22:49,440 --> 01:22:50,960
>> for the policies.

2023
01:22:50,960 --> 01:22:53,040
>> Yeah. Just just a clarification for

2024
01:22:53,040 --> 01:22:55,840
people at home, you know, three is three

2025
01:22:55,840 --> 01:22:57,199
means effective. The director

2026
01:22:57,199 --> 01:22:58,560
consistently meets performing

2027
01:22:58,560 --> 01:23:00,080
expectations and perform in a

2028
01:23:00,080 --> 01:23:02,960
professional and competent manner. Four

2029
01:23:02,960 --> 01:23:05,280
is highly effective. The director always

2030
01:23:05,280 --> 01:23:07,199
meets and frequently exceeds performance

2031
01:23:07,199 --> 01:23:10,159
expectations. So that's that's the the

2032
01:23:10,159 --> 01:23:10,560
next step,

2033
01:23:10,560 --> 01:23:18,310
>> but I still I would like to see a four.

2034
01:23:18,320 --> 01:23:20,159
» Um,

2035
01:23:20,159 --> 01:23:21,760
well, I guess you prepared this, so I

2036
01:23:21,760 --> 01:23:22,719
don't know if you have any additional

2037
01:23:22,719 --> 01:23:24,239
questions or comments. I just want to

2038
01:23:24,239 --> 01:23:25,520
make sure each person has a chance to

2039
01:23:25,520 --> 01:23:27,760
either comment or ask a question just

2040
01:23:27,760 --> 01:23:29,840
sort of in the spirit of equity. So I

2041
01:23:29,840 --> 01:23:30,800
don't know if you had anything else

2042
01:23:30,800 --> 01:23:32,239
you'd wanted to add, Donna.

2043
01:23:32,239 --> 01:23:36,000
>> No, I I mean Jess and I spent time and

2044
01:23:36,000 --> 01:23:38,400
went over each of these. we had less

2045
01:23:38,400 --> 01:23:42,320
years to base it on. But um

2046
01:23:42,320 --> 01:23:43,920
no, I thought it was a pretty fair

2047
01:23:43,920 --> 01:23:47,360
review. Um the only problem is we needed

2048
01:23:47,360 --> 01:23:49,600
to do this earlier because I think with

2049
01:23:49,600 --> 01:23:53,760
her numbers being as high as they are.

2050
01:23:53,760 --> 01:23:56,000
Um I want to recommend her for a higher

2051
01:23:56,000 --> 01:23:57,360
rate. I would have liked to have

2052
01:23:57,360 --> 01:23:58,880
recommended her for a higher raise, but

2053
01:23:58,880 --> 01:24:00,960
with the budget

2054
01:24:00,960 --> 01:24:03,920
constraints that the town has this year,

2055
01:24:03,920 --> 01:24:05,600
um it was too late to do it by the time

2056
01:24:05,600 --> 01:24:07,280
we got it to them. Okay.

2057
01:24:07,280 --> 01:24:09,920
>> Um that that would probably be the only

2058
01:24:09,920 --> 01:24:11,440
thing. I think she does an excellent

2059
01:24:11,440 --> 01:24:14,239
job. I think we're lucky to have her and

2060
01:24:14,239 --> 01:24:16,400
um most of the people I talk with at the

2061
01:24:16,400 --> 01:24:19,920
library are really happy to be here. So,

2062
01:24:19,920 --> 01:24:23,199
um no, I don't I don't unless somebody

2063
01:24:23,199 --> 01:24:25,199
else has a specific question.

2064
01:24:25,199 --> 01:24:26,480
>> Yeah, I think we'll just go around just

2065
01:24:26,480 --> 01:24:27,679
kind of go around the table. So, Alan,

2066
01:24:27,679 --> 01:24:32,310
if you have any questions or comments

2067
01:24:32,320 --> 01:24:34,639
» Corey, do you have anything?

2068
01:24:34,639 --> 01:24:38,400
Um, no. I think it's a fair evaluation.

2069
01:24:38,400 --> 01:24:41,600
I think, um, you know, I'll continue to

2070
01:24:41,600 --> 01:24:44,960
harp on my, um,

2071
01:24:44,960 --> 01:24:48,000
just encouragement toward

2072
01:24:48,000 --> 01:24:52,239
staff retention and, um, making sure

2073
01:24:52,239 --> 01:24:56,080
that when folks leave their employment

2074
01:24:56,080 --> 01:24:58,480
at our library that they go out and

2075
01:24:58,480 --> 01:25:02,159
speak well of us. Um,

2076
01:25:02,159 --> 01:25:03,760
and

2077
01:25:03,760 --> 01:25:05,679
that hasn't always been the case, but I

2078
01:25:05,679 --> 01:25:11,440
think we're ready for a clean page. And

2079
01:25:11,440 --> 01:25:13,280
>> yeah, and I think on that note, I like

2080
01:25:13,280 --> 01:25:14,560
one of the things that in the report, I

2081
01:25:14,560 --> 01:25:16,719
think it's helpful for us to be able to

2082
01:25:16,719 --> 01:25:18,239
see what trainings are happening, what's

2083
01:25:18,239 --> 01:25:20,639
being scheduled, just so we can sort of

2084
01:25:20,639 --> 01:25:23,440
have that sense of what's in the queue,

2085
01:25:23,440 --> 01:25:25,440
but also just an opportunity to, you

2086
01:25:25,440 --> 01:25:27,120
know, offer insight or reaction to that.

2087
01:25:27,120 --> 01:25:29,600
So I think that transparency in terms of

2088
01:25:29,600 --> 01:25:31,600
what's being done around morale and

2089
01:25:31,600 --> 01:25:33,679
retention and training I think is really

2090
01:25:33,679 --> 01:25:34,560
important.

2091
01:25:34,560 --> 01:25:36,719
>> Yeah. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

2092
01:25:36,719 --> 01:25:38,480
>> Thanks, Mike.

2093
01:25:38,480 --> 01:25:41,440
>> Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh

2094
01:25:41,440 --> 01:25:43,440
>> I I I've always made it no secret that

2095
01:25:43,440 --> 01:25:46,159
I'm one of our biggest supporters

2096
01:25:46,159 --> 01:25:49,920
uh a lot of the time. Um and and looking

2097
01:25:49,920 --> 01:25:52,719
at this the 20 minutes I had before the

2098
01:25:52,719 --> 01:25:54,239
meeting to look at it, even though I had

2099
01:25:54,239 --> 01:25:57,679
the opportunity I saw on line to review

2100
01:25:57,679 --> 01:26:00,560
it. Um,

2101
01:26:00,560 --> 01:26:04,400
I was evaluated for 42 years uh down

2102
01:26:04,400 --> 01:26:06,159
there around 120 street in the police

2103
01:26:06,159 --> 01:26:14,719
department and um evaluations uh subjective in my opinion.

2104
01:26:14,719 --> 01:26:16,320
Um

2105
01:26:16,320 --> 01:26:19,199
who evaluates the evaluator?

2106
01:26:19,199 --> 01:26:22,470
Um

2107
01:26:22,480 --> 01:26:25,280
how do you uh when you when you look at

2108
01:26:25,280 --> 01:26:29,520
this uh like uh the process

2109
01:26:29,520 --> 01:26:32,320
the board of selecting uh who evaluates

2110
01:26:32,320 --> 01:26:35,120
the town manager

2111
01:26:35,120 --> 01:26:38,480
five select members

2112
01:26:38,480 --> 01:26:40,800
five

2113
01:26:40,800 --> 01:26:42,800
not two five

2114
01:26:42,800 --> 01:26:43,840
>> I think they have a subcom

2115
01:26:43,840 --> 01:26:45,600
>> I'm looking at what's that

2116
01:26:45,600 --> 01:26:47,360
>> they do a subcommittee just like you we

2117
01:26:47,360 --> 01:26:49,679
did Okay. When when I'm done here, you

2118
01:26:49,679 --> 01:26:50,400
can help me out here.

2119
01:26:50,400 --> 01:26:51,120
>> Just saying.

2120
01:26:51,120 --> 01:26:57,600
>> But so my even a subcommittee. Well, but

2121
01:26:57,600 --> 01:27:00,880
everybody on the select board has a has

2122
01:27:00,880 --> 01:27:03,360
an opportunity to evaluate

2123
01:27:03,360 --> 01:27:05,520
the manager and I would guess that the

2124
01:27:05,520 --> 01:27:08,320
numbers, you know, year four, year

2125
01:27:08,320 --> 01:27:10,719
three, something like that. They come to

2126
01:27:10,719 --> 01:27:13,280
a consensus.

2127
01:27:13,280 --> 01:27:15,040
looking at her evaluation. I mean, she

2128
01:27:15,040 --> 01:27:19,440
does a great job. Out of uh

2129
01:27:19,440 --> 01:27:24,560
out of 50 58 categories,

2130
01:27:24,560 --> 01:27:27,120
she got 14 fives. That's pretty good.

2131
01:27:27,120 --> 01:27:29,360
That sound good.

2132
01:27:29,360 --> 01:27:33,120
And then looking at looking at u uh

2133
01:27:33,120 --> 01:27:35,199
something like

2134
01:27:35,199 --> 01:27:36,800
I I think it needs to be looked at. The

2135
01:27:36,800 --> 01:27:39,120
process need to be looked at. Uh

2136
01:27:39,120 --> 01:27:42,320
establishing uh priorities. Under number

2137
01:27:42,320 --> 01:27:44,080
14,

2138
01:27:44,080 --> 01:27:45,760
it says director's accomplishments

2139
01:27:45,760 --> 01:27:48,239
reflect and

2140
01:27:48,239 --> 01:27:50,800
relate to the short and long range

2141
01:27:50,800 --> 01:27:54,480
plans. You got a three and then plans

2142
01:27:54,480 --> 01:27:57,840
are updated on a continuous basis to

2143
01:27:57,840 --> 01:28:00,239
reflect change in circumstances. You got

2144
01:28:00,239 --> 01:28:02,800
a a four. I mean it doesn't to me that

2145
01:28:02,800 --> 01:28:05,600
doesn't make sense like uh the ground

2146
01:28:05,600 --> 01:28:08,719
maintenance and construction of physical

2147
01:28:08,719 --> 01:28:11,280
plants you know she's a director the

2148
01:28:11,280 --> 01:28:13,440
town owns the property

2149
01:28:13,440 --> 01:28:16,639
she she contacts build and maintenance

2150
01:28:16,639 --> 01:28:18,320
some need to be fixed some like that she

2151
01:28:18,320 --> 01:28:21,760
does a great job of that but I mean I'm

2152
01:28:21,760 --> 01:28:24,960
not sure that has to be a category for a

2153
01:28:24,960 --> 01:28:28,800
director's eye evaluation but

2154
01:28:28,800 --> 01:28:32,080
u looking at the The last part, staff

2155
01:28:32,080 --> 01:28:34,560
selection.

2156
01:28:34,560 --> 01:28:36,800
The last one down, selection processes

2157
01:28:36,800 --> 01:28:40,560
designed to ensure the selection of the

2158
01:28:40,560 --> 01:28:43,520
best person for the job.

2159
01:28:43,520 --> 01:28:46,320
Comments with the limitations of the

2160
01:28:46,320 --> 01:28:49,040
union contract, Noel is doing a great

2161
01:28:49,040 --> 01:28:51,199
job.

2162
01:28:51,199 --> 01:28:54,000
I dare say sitting here, how many

2163
01:28:54,000 --> 01:28:55,520
trustees know anything about this

2164
01:28:55,520 --> 01:28:57,679
contract?

2165
01:28:57,679 --> 01:29:00,000
In this contract right here, it talks

2166
01:29:00,000 --> 01:29:01,600
about

2167
01:29:01,600 --> 01:29:04,159
seniority procedure for filling a

2168
01:29:04,159 --> 01:29:09,510
vacancy.

2169
01:29:09,520 --> 01:29:11,199
» She's not limited. She signed the

2170
01:29:11,199 --> 01:29:13,600
contract with the town.

2171
01:29:13,600 --> 01:29:15,840
>> The town that they agreed on this. She's

2172
01:29:15,840 --> 01:29:18,320
not limited. This is this is this is the

2173
01:29:18,320 --> 01:29:20,239
>> What it what it means is that just that

2174
01:29:20,239 --> 01:29:21,600
>> what does limitation mean?

2175
01:29:21,600 --> 01:29:23,760
>> Meaning that she has to abide by the

2176
01:29:23,760 --> 01:29:24,560
contract.

2177
01:29:24,560 --> 01:29:26,560
>> That's not a limitation. That's she

2178
01:29:26,560 --> 01:29:28,159
signed the deal.

2179
01:29:28,159 --> 01:29:30,239
>> That's not I think it's limitation in a

2180
01:29:30,239 --> 01:29:31,360
negative sense. She's saying that this

2181
01:29:31,360 --> 01:29:32,239
is what the contract lays

2182
01:29:32,239 --> 01:29:34,880
>> out. Anyway, I think the process in my

2183
01:29:34,880 --> 01:29:37,360
opinion she does a great job.

2184
01:29:37,360 --> 01:29:39,679
>> Um I think the process needs to be

2185
01:29:39,679 --> 01:29:40,560
looked at.

2186
01:29:40,560 --> 01:29:42,159
>> Yeah. I mean, Mike, we're definitely

2187
01:29:42,159 --> 01:29:44,719
open. So if we want, we can talk after

2188
01:29:44,719 --> 01:29:45,120
too.

2189
01:29:45,120 --> 01:29:46,239
>> Changing the process. Yeah.

2190
01:29:46,239 --> 01:29:46,480
>> Okay.

2191
01:29:46,480 --> 01:29:49,040
We can

2192
01:29:49,040 --> 01:29:50,719
>> I'm sorry, but Mike, how many years were

2193
01:29:50,719 --> 01:29:52,159
you chair?

2194
01:29:52,159 --> 01:29:53,120
>> Almost 30.

2195
01:29:53,120 --> 01:29:55,280
You were chair. How many

2196
01:29:55,280 --> 01:29:56,800
times

2197
01:29:56,800 --> 01:29:57,360
I chair?

2198
01:29:57,360 --> 01:29:59,280
>> How many times did you Yes, I asked how

2199
01:29:59,280 --> 01:29:59,840
many times you were.

2200
01:29:59,840 --> 01:30:01,040
>> Mr. Chairman, I'm not here to debate.

2201
01:30:01,040 --> 01:30:02,480
I'm just saying my being.

2202
01:30:02,480 --> 01:30:03,120
>> No. Well,

2203
01:30:03,120 --> 01:30:05,520
>> personal personal you can chair.

2204
01:30:05,520 --> 01:30:07,920
>> All right. Well, Donna, why don't you finish your comment and

2205
01:30:07,920 --> 01:30:10,320
then we'll move on.

2206
01:30:10,320 --> 01:30:12,000
>> You never presented.

2207
01:30:12,000 --> 01:30:13,199
>> Mr.

2208
01:30:13,199 --> 01:30:14,560
>> I have the war.

2209
01:30:14,560 --> 01:30:16,400
>> You just have to say no. I might never.

2210
01:30:16,400 --> 01:30:18,239
>> Just finish your comment. Don't direct

2211
01:30:18,239 --> 01:30:20,000
Mike directly. Just finish your comment,

2212
01:30:20,000 --> 01:30:20,960
please.

2213
01:30:20,960 --> 01:30:24,159
um you never presented the evaluations

2214
01:30:24,159 --> 01:30:25,199
to the

2215
01:30:25,199 --> 01:30:27,199
>> Okay, let's let's not make this about an

2216
01:30:27,199 --> 01:30:27,920
individual member.

2217
01:30:27,920 --> 01:30:30,320
>> I'm just saying we are trying to make

2218
01:30:30,320 --> 01:30:32,159
this more inclusive for the board to

2219
01:30:32,159 --> 01:30:34,159
have an opportunity.

2220
01:30:34,159 --> 01:30:35,920
>> That's what this session is right now.

2221
01:30:35,920 --> 01:30:40,719
So, if some one of the trustees has a

2222
01:30:40,719 --> 01:30:42,639
recommendation or has an opinion or

2223
01:30:42,639 --> 01:30:44,719
thinks something should be changed, now

2224
01:30:44,719 --> 01:30:46,320
is the time to bring it up. Yes,

2225
01:30:46,320 --> 01:30:47,920
>> we listen to the suggestions that were

2226
01:30:47,920 --> 01:30:50,159
made earlier and we're doing our best to

2227
01:30:50,159 --> 01:30:52,560
include everyone in it, but we cannot

2228
01:30:52,560 --> 01:30:54,800
sit with nine people and do this

2229
01:30:54,800 --> 01:30:56,080
>> right. I think we need to have a

2230
01:30:56,080 --> 01:30:57,760
separate more robust conversation about

2231
01:30:57,760 --> 01:30:59,440
the evaluation process well in advance

2232
01:30:59,440 --> 01:31:01,120
of that process starting the next time.

2233
01:31:01,120 --> 01:31:02,880
So, I don't think I think it's good to

2234
01:31:02,880 --> 01:31:04,480
get the feedback now. I don't think this

2235
01:31:04,480 --> 01:31:06,639
is the time to come up with a new

2236
01:31:06,639 --> 01:31:09,199
evaluation process. So, I think the

2237
01:31:09,199 --> 01:31:11,440
feedback is warranted. I think we can

2238
01:31:11,440 --> 01:31:13,760
that'll be a future agenda item

2239
01:31:13,760 --> 01:31:15,520
>> and if there's specific things that's

2240
01:31:15,520 --> 01:31:19,840
what I understand we're doing now. So

2241
01:31:19,840 --> 01:31:28,229
>> after all that Charles

2242
01:31:28,239 --> 01:31:28,800
» it's okay.

2243
01:31:28,800 --> 01:31:31,520
>> No I think it's very difficult to do

2244
01:31:31,520 --> 01:31:33,440
evaluations in the environment that

2245
01:31:33,440 --> 01:31:35,760
we're in right now. Let me just say that

2246
01:31:35,760 --> 01:31:36,400
for a fact.

2247
01:31:36,400 --> 01:31:38,480
>> Charles I'm sorry. Can you speak?

2248
01:31:38,480 --> 01:31:40,400
>> I'm sorry. Yes. I said I think It's

2249
01:31:40,400 --> 01:31:41,520
difficult speaking to the mic.

2250
01:31:41,520 --> 01:31:43,199
>> Oh, speaking to the mic. Okay. Yeah.

2251
01:31:43,199 --> 01:31:46,639
It's not uh exactly easy to u go about

2252
01:31:46,639 --> 01:31:48,480
the whole process of staff oversight and

2253
01:31:48,480 --> 01:31:50,639
staff review is a very complicated

2254
01:31:50,639 --> 01:31:54,719
matter at this time. Um here recently in

2255
01:31:54,719 --> 01:31:56,880
the let's just basically put the cards

2256
01:31:56,880 --> 01:31:58,480
on the table here. I feel it's very

2257
01:31:58,480 --> 01:32:00,880
important for us to do that. We've had a

2258
01:32:00,880 --> 01:32:04,800
number of issues um with regards to the

2259
01:32:04,800 --> 01:32:07,040
very aggressive effort that Danvers has

2260
01:32:07,040 --> 01:32:09,280
been made been making and continuing to

2261
01:32:09,280 --> 01:32:12,320
make to diversify, bring people from

2262
01:32:12,320 --> 01:32:13,760
different backgrounds and different

2263
01:32:13,760 --> 01:32:17,440
experiences into the professional um

2264
01:32:17,440 --> 01:32:19,840
sector here in Danvers. This is a

2265
01:32:19,840 --> 01:32:22,719
relatively new phenomenon and it is not

2266
01:32:22,719 --> 01:32:25,760
something that we walk into with

2267
01:32:25,760 --> 01:32:28,480
complete expertise on every dimension of

2268
01:32:28,480 --> 01:32:33,199
that task being done. Um I think that

2269
01:32:33,199 --> 01:32:35,600
this review reflects the fact that this

2270
01:32:35,600 --> 01:32:38,480
is an ongoing effort that we are working

2271
01:32:38,480 --> 01:32:41,360
on in DNA. Sometimes things have worked

2272
01:32:41,360 --> 01:32:43,679
out perfectly and sometimes there have

2273
01:32:43,679 --> 01:32:45,600
been tensions and we deal with the

2274
01:32:45,600 --> 01:32:48,080
aftermath of those tensions that this

2275
01:32:48,080 --> 01:32:50,800
review in my opinion reflects that. Um

2276
01:32:50,800 --> 01:32:55,440
we all collectively need to u work on

2277
01:32:55,440 --> 01:32:58,800
better understanding how we as a as a as

2278
01:32:58,800 --> 01:33:02,719
a organization can reflect the society

2279
01:33:02,719 --> 01:33:04,880
of which we're all a part and I think

2280
01:33:04,880 --> 01:33:07,199
that this review reflects that as well.

2281
01:33:07,199 --> 01:33:09,840
I think that the the the variable that

2282
01:33:09,840 --> 01:33:12,159
says that this is an issue that we need

2283
01:33:12,159 --> 01:33:14,159
continuing work needs to be done,

2284
01:33:14,159 --> 01:33:16,480
continuing training needs to be done,

2285
01:33:16,480 --> 01:33:18,560
continuing effort needs to be done,

2286
01:33:18,560 --> 01:33:20,480
that's reflected in this review in my

2287
01:33:20,480 --> 01:33:23,520
personal opinion. Um so um I I think

2288
01:33:23,520 --> 01:33:27,520
that um relative to the ongoing concern

2289
01:33:27,520 --> 01:33:29,920
that folks have about this issue, myself

2290
01:33:29,920 --> 01:33:32,880
included, um I think that we just

2291
01:33:32,880 --> 01:33:35,199
continue have to continue to work at

2292
01:33:35,199 --> 01:33:38,320
that with with the clear understanding

2293
01:33:38,320 --> 01:33:43,510
that if there's an issue around

2294
01:33:43,520 --> 01:33:46,560
what what the around the variables that

2295
01:33:46,560 --> 01:33:48,800
caused the concern with this evaluation

2296
01:33:48,800 --> 01:33:50,719
in the first place. If there are

2297
01:33:50,719 --> 01:33:53,120
continuing concerns about that, the

2298
01:33:53,120 --> 01:33:56,159
answer to that is not to not not to

2299
01:33:56,159 --> 01:33:58,560
recommmit ourselves to the fact that we

2300
01:33:58,560 --> 01:34:01,440
want to diversify our staff in all the

2301
01:34:01,440 --> 01:34:03,600
dimensions that are possible and that we

2302
01:34:03,600 --> 01:34:04,960
want to be able to have the skills and

2303
01:34:04,960 --> 01:34:06,400
resources and support for that to

2304
01:34:06,400 --> 01:34:09,840
happen. And so I think that um again as

2305
01:34:09,840 --> 01:34:12,880
I looked at the variables that were in

2306
01:34:12,880 --> 01:34:16,400
section four, section seven, section 8,

2307
01:34:16,400 --> 01:34:19,840
uh section 14, all of those point to

2308
01:34:19,840 --> 01:34:22,560
issues that say that this organization,

2309
01:34:22,560 --> 01:34:25,360
our director is taking seriously the

2310
01:34:25,360 --> 01:34:27,840
concerns that have been raised about the

2311
01:34:27,840 --> 01:34:29,760
tensions that have raised around

2312
01:34:29,760 --> 01:34:31,920
personnel issues at the library. We

2313
01:34:31,920 --> 01:34:33,840
can't go into the details of that today

2314
01:34:33,840 --> 01:34:35,280
for the very reasons that we just heard

2315
01:34:35,280 --> 01:34:39,840
a minute ago. Um however I think um

2316
01:34:39,840 --> 01:34:42,080
what what does need to happen Mr.

2317
01:34:42,080 --> 01:34:45,760
chairman is that um more individual

2318
01:34:45,760 --> 01:34:48,159
conversations need to happen in the year

2319
01:34:48,159 --> 01:34:49,199
ahead

2320
01:34:49,199 --> 01:34:51,440
>> with regards to these variables about

2321
01:34:51,440 --> 01:34:55,440
what are the inputs, supports, advice,

2322
01:34:55,440 --> 01:35:01,360
counsel, suggestions, uh experiential um

2323
01:35:01,360 --> 01:35:02,960
background variables that might be

2324
01:35:02,960 --> 01:35:05,920
helpful for us to grow and to further

2325
01:35:05,920 --> 01:35:09,280
develop as an organization can possibly

2326
01:35:09,280 --> 01:35:11,040
happen by talking with all the people at

2327
01:35:11,040 --> 01:35:11,760
the

2328
01:35:11,760 --> 01:35:14,239
There's brilliant people at this table.

2329
01:35:14,239 --> 01:35:17,600
I've sat here a long time and I know

2330
01:35:17,600 --> 01:35:19,520
that there are people sitting at this

2331
01:35:19,520 --> 01:35:21,920
table who have lots of insights, lots of

2332
01:35:21,920 --> 01:35:23,920
experience and and very clear opinions

2333
01:35:23,920 --> 01:35:25,440
about this stuff. And I think

2334
01:35:25,440 --> 01:35:27,840
collectively when we share our thoughts

2335
01:35:27,840 --> 01:35:29,440
together, we're only going to come out a

2336
01:35:29,440 --> 01:35:31,360
stronger, more effective organization.

2337
01:35:31,360 --> 01:35:33,040
But as far as we're going, I think the

2338
01:35:33,040 --> 01:35:35,440
world has killed ourselves trying to do

2339
01:35:35,440 --> 01:35:37,520
a great job at this. It's not easy to do

2340
01:35:37,520 --> 01:35:40,080
this. It's uh it's difficult. Uh

2341
01:35:40,080 --> 01:35:41,520
sometimes you And then sometimes you

2342
01:35:41,520 --> 01:35:44,400
lose and the the consequences are what

2343
01:35:44,400 --> 01:35:46,880
they are. But we have to go on.

2344
01:35:46,880 --> 01:35:53,030
>> Thank you, Charles. Ken,

2345
01:35:53,040 --> 01:35:53,920
» that was great. That was

2346
01:35:53,920 --> 01:35:56,000
>> no notes.

2347
01:35:56,000 --> 01:35:57,440
>> Uh but that was great. But thank you,

2348
01:35:57,440 --> 01:35:59,360
Charles. And I, you know, I think that,

2349
01:35:59,360 --> 01:36:01,520
um, just, you know, sort of as coming in

2350
01:36:01,520 --> 01:36:04,239
as chair, I would also personally like

2351
01:36:04,239 --> 01:36:05,679
to have a robust discussion about what

2352
01:36:05,679 --> 01:36:07,199
the evaluation process looks like

2353
01:36:07,199 --> 01:36:09,280
because I do think it's important that

2354
01:36:09,280 --> 01:36:10,880
we all feel like we have input in the

2355
01:36:10,880 --> 01:36:12,480
process and that we feel like it's as

2356
01:36:12,480 --> 01:36:14,480
open and transparent as possible within

2357
01:36:14,480 --> 01:36:16,239
the constraints that we have. So, I do

2358
01:36:16,239 --> 01:36:17,600
think, like I said, I don't think we're

2359
01:36:17,600 --> 01:36:18,960
going to hash this out tonight, but I

2360
01:36:18,960 --> 01:36:21,360
think that's a worthy discussion. Um,

2361
01:36:21,360 --> 01:36:23,280
you know, when we reconvene in the fall.

2362
01:36:23,280 --> 01:36:25,360
Um and the time to do it is now so that

2363
01:36:25,360 --> 01:36:27,040
when the next evaluation cycle comes

2364
01:36:27,040 --> 01:36:30,000
through we can be proactive um and again

2365
01:36:30,000 --> 01:36:31,840
make sure that everyone has that that

2366
01:36:31,840 --> 01:36:34,000
input um you know throughout the

2367
01:36:34,000 --> 01:36:36,880
process. Um and again that could look at

2368
01:36:36,880 --> 01:36:38,480
what the evaluation looks like but it

2369
01:36:38,480 --> 01:36:40,320
might you know it might also be other

2370
01:36:40,320 --> 01:36:41,360
things that we want added to the

2371
01:36:41,360 --> 01:36:43,600
evaluation etc. So I think it's a it's a

2372
01:36:43,600 --> 01:36:44,960
good discussion to have.

2373
01:36:44,960 --> 01:36:45,760
>> Um

2374
01:36:45,760 --> 01:36:49,360
>> so any other um anything to add on?

2375
01:36:49,360 --> 01:36:51,199
>> Do we have to vote to accept it or

2376
01:36:51,199 --> 01:36:52,800
>> Yeah. Do that's a good question. We have

2377
01:36:52,800 --> 01:36:54,239
to vote to accept the evaluation or is

2378
01:36:54,239 --> 01:36:55,440
it already been submitted to the town

2379
01:36:55,440 --> 01:36:56,159
manager?

2380
01:36:56,159 --> 01:36:58,719
>> It's already been you you submitted it

2381
01:36:58,719 --> 01:36:59,840
already, right?

2382
01:36:59,840 --> 01:37:00,320
>> Right.

2383
01:37:00,320 --> 01:37:02,159
>> Did you sub you submitted it, right?

2384
01:37:02,159 --> 01:37:03,119
>> No, because we

2385
01:37:03,119 --> 01:37:04,320
>> Oh, because you were waiting to

2386
01:37:04,320 --> 01:37:06,400
>> We're waiting to see what other people

2387
01:37:06,400 --> 01:37:09,360
wanted to add if

2388
01:37:09,360 --> 01:37:13,360
>> Okay. So, um so we will vote to submit

2389
01:37:13,360 --> 01:37:16,239
the evaluation to the town manager. Um

2390
01:37:16,239 --> 01:37:18,400
so, do I have a motion to submit the

2391
01:37:18,400 --> 01:37:20,080
evaluation?

2392
01:37:20,080 --> 01:37:20,719
>> Second.

2393
01:37:20,719 --> 01:37:20,960
>> Okay.

2394
01:37:20,960 --> 01:37:22,880
I'm sorry. Who did the first?

2395
01:37:22,880 --> 01:37:23,760
>> Mike.

2396
01:37:23,760 --> 01:37:24,480
>> Me.

2397
01:37:24,480 --> 01:37:26,400
>> And Donna, you did the second.

2398
01:37:26,400 --> 01:37:28,960
>> Ellen.

2399
01:37:28,960 --> 01:37:33,119
>> Um, any any further discussion?

2400
01:37:33,119 --> 01:37:37,679
>> Okay. Okay. Um, so all um all in favor

2401
01:37:37,679 --> 01:37:39,440
of submitting the evaluation as written

2402
01:37:39,440 --> 01:37:40,800
to the town managers?

2403
01:37:40,800 --> 01:37:41,840
>> I I.

2404
01:37:41,840 --> 01:37:43,360
>> Any opposed?

2405
01:37:43,360 --> 01:37:43,920
>> Nope.

2406
01:37:43,920 --> 01:37:44,239
>> Okay.

2407
01:37:44,239 --> 01:37:46,080
>> All right. And I'll just make the note

2408
01:37:46,080 --> 01:37:49,199
um when I did talk to I'm trying to

2409
01:37:49,199 --> 01:37:50,960
remember when I talked to them the town

2410
01:37:50,960 --> 01:37:53,679
manager and the finance director um they

2411
01:37:53,679 --> 01:37:56,560
did suggest moving the evaluation to

2412
01:37:56,560 --> 01:38:00,880
January uh because the um that's

2413
01:38:00,880 --> 01:38:02,080
basically when we start doing all the

2414
01:38:02,080 --> 01:38:03,920
budgeting right so like if if we do want

2415
01:38:03,920 --> 01:38:07,040
to do if we not you all want to do

2416
01:38:07,040 --> 01:38:08,880
something like you know give me a raise

2417
01:38:08,880 --> 01:38:10,480
or something like that if this money is

2418
01:38:10,480 --> 01:38:13,840
going to be different um then like that

2419
01:38:13,840 --> 01:38:15,360
the very beginning of the year is when

2420
01:38:15,360 --> 01:38:17,040
to do it so that they can make it part

2421
01:38:17,040 --> 01:38:19,040
of the budget season. So just putting

2422
01:38:19,040 --> 01:38:21,040
that in your little calendars.

2423
01:38:21,040 --> 01:38:23,280
>> Yes. Because we were told to do it now

2424
01:38:23,280 --> 01:38:25,119
and turns out that was bad information.

2425
01:38:25,119 --> 01:38:27,600
>> Oh, you want

2426
01:38:27,600 --> 01:38:27,920
>> Okay.

2427
01:38:27,920 --> 01:38:30,320
>> Oh yeah. So

2428
01:38:30,320 --> 01:38:34,080
the evaluations are now

2429
01:38:34,080 --> 01:38:35,760
>> Yeah, we'll collect those back.

2430
01:38:35,760 --> 01:38:39,119
>> Um any new business before we

2431
01:38:39,119 --> 01:38:43,520
>> adjourn? Can I get a motion to adjourn?

2432
01:38:43,520 --> 01:38:45,760
Ellen, can I have a second?

2433
01:38:45,760 --> 01:38:46,880
>> Okay, Campbell second.

2434
01:38:46,880 --> 01:38:48,719
>> I'm sorry. Ellen and who was

2435
01:38:48,719 --> 01:38:49,360
>> Ken.

2436
01:38:49,360 --> 01:38:51,679
>> And can you tell me what time it is?

2437
01:38:51,679 --> 01:38:53,199
>> 8:29.

2438
01:38:53,199 --> 01:38:53,920
>> I'm sorry, what?

2439
01:38:53,920 --> 01:38:54,400
>> 82.

2440
01:38:54,400 --> 01:38:55,360
>> 829.

2441
01:38:55,360 --> 01:38:57,440
>> All those in favor of adjourning?

2442
01:38:57,440 --> 01:38:58,000
>> I.

2443
01:38:58,000 --> 01:39:01,920
>> Any opposed? You're