[0:00] I call the meeting of the board of
adjustments to order. We'll start with
[0:04] the pledge of allegiance.
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
[0:09] United States of America to the republic
for which it stands, one nation under
[0:15] God, indivisible, with liberty and
justice for all.
[0:20] » And we have a calling, official calling
of the roll, please.
[0:32] our coffee.
[0:37] [clears throat]
>> We can just have everybody announce
[0:40] themselves.
>> That's okay.
[0:43] » Go ahead. You can start. Mike is here.
>> Don Lynn. We have three uh members here
[0:52] which happens to be the whole board and
that forms a quorum. So we will be uh
[0:57] con considering the first case and only
one for tonight
[1:03] uh for the U
brought before the board. It is file
[1:07] number BA25
010.
[1:12] The applicant is Vining Capital
Properties 4 LLC
[1:17] and the location uh under consideration
is 127 8th Avenue, Dayton, Kentucky.
[1:26] change from one non-conforming use as an
applica as an attached two family unit
[1:33] to a detached to family unit with the
second dwelling above the garage.
[1:41] Um, is there any particulars that you
want to bring out? I I mean, we've got
[1:46] this here, but I didn't want to go
directly into quest into questions
[1:50] unless you've got
specific.
[1:55] » Okay.
[2:00] » Okay.
>> So, what what we can do is um we can
[2:04] start off by allowing the board to after
having read the appropriate doc document
[2:12] that was sent out ask any questions. U
you're Mr. Viny.
[2:20] » Okay. uh we'll start by uh directing our
questions towards you. If uh you're not
[2:27] the correct person, you can maybe steer
us to the one and we'll go from there.
[2:33] Uh if any of the board members have a
question right now, um I'll open it up
[2:40] and recognize whoever has the questions.
>> Mike, Bob,
[2:45] » I'm good.
I do have one on the staff comments kind
[2:50] of confused me a little bit which is we
all know is easy to do but
[2:54] [clears throat] it's in the one two
three fourth paragraph you're saying the
[2:58] KRS 10247
doesn't allow for the increase in
[3:03] density free dwelling
single family home shall not be sub
[3:09] subset is a rental okay as a rental into
two dwelling
[3:14] is recommended if the property is not
actively used as a rental for more than
[3:18] one family. I used to refer to that of a
single family.
[3:23] Can you give me a little more explain
that a little bit more?
[3:26] » Well, the the basic um tenor of the
paragraph is that [clears throat]
[3:32] zoning part of what zoning controls is
density. So currently have a net two
[3:39] dwelling units, one of which is
grandfathered and one of which is legal
[3:42] conforming. So in [clears throat]
essentially doing by swapping it from a
[3:48] two unit to a a unit with an accessory
unit. We're not changing the net uh
[3:54] amount of dwelling units or the net of
density of the area
[4:04] » and we're not increasing it to three.
>> That's correct.
[4:08] » Mhm.
[4:11] » Okay.
>> I apologize. I didn't read this whole
[4:15] thing. I glanced at it on my email, but
u this over garage, is that going to be
[4:20] rehabed?
>> That's what's been rehabbed. Yes.
[4:24] » What kind of egress does it have?
>> I think
[4:27] » I mean I see a door and nothing.
[4:32] » Just can you address that the
>> design there?
[4:36] » Sure. So Jack Atlin on behalf of the
Vining Group. So, I have and I don't
[4:40] know if it was in the staff report, but
I do have um what was submitted for the
[4:47] building permit, which shows where all
the ingress and egress is.
[4:52] » Okay, great.
>> Um
[4:54] » is it still going to be used as a
garage?
[4:56] » So, underneath
>> So, here's the drawings of it. Um
[5:00] [clears throat]
>> Oh, you know what? I knew I had actually
[5:04] brought copies if I may approach y'all.
>> Certainly.
[5:07] » All right. Every city has different
levels of formality.
[5:10] » Oh, I understand. We We don't stand high
on formality.
[5:16] » Just want to be careful.
>> I understand.
[5:20] » Okie do.
>> So, this is the application that was
[5:24] made building permit. You can see that
um and the building permit was granted.
[5:29] Uh this actually was kind of a snafu
that popped up uh when we went for or
[5:33] when our client went for an occupancy
permit. So you can see that the bottom
[5:36] floor is still going to be a garage. Uh
operates as a garage. Uh you can enter
[5:40] there the stairs and then the second
floor is the living space. And again,
[5:44] all that's happening here and and I
don't want to talk over staff, but all
[5:47] that's really happening is it was an
existing duplex and a garage that was
[5:50] behind that was kind of in bad shape. It
was in rough shape. Um our client uh
[5:56] kind of had a little bit of a
misunderstanding. He thought he was
[5:59] going to be able to have three units out
here. uh made an application for a
[6:03] building permit, has already renovated
and put a fair amount of time and money
[6:06] into that garage unit. We understand
now, he understands now that obviously a
[6:12] this board doesn't have any ability to
extend it beyond the two. And and all
[6:15] we're requesting is to basically take
that duplex and to make it now one
[6:20] single family and to to have that
non-conforming building now be garage
[6:25] with full residence above, which my
understanding is that the building
[6:29] inspector, Mr. foul uh had no issues
with ready to give an occupation permit
[6:34] other than the issue of it third
dwelling that was I think a general
[6:40] misunderstanding.
[cough and clears throat]
[6:43] » Now I understand from what I've read in
here and what you've been saying that um
[6:51] the uh this new renovation is done.
>> It is correct. It's I I think you have
[6:58] some finishing touches. Yeah.
[7:09] » So you ran new electric out there and
water and all that stuff from what? The
[7:17] existing first front building.
Okay.
[7:23] » Okay.
And
[7:26] we weren't trying to go around this
process. He went to the city, applied
[7:30] for a building permit, it was granted.
It just, like I said, was a little bit
[7:34] of a snafu on on three units versus two,
>> but we're just wanting to
[7:39] » Yeah. So, let me get back to the front
uh house, which I think you can answer
[7:46] it. I read through your statements.
>> Yeah. And basically what I'm
[7:51] understanding is, okay, now instead of
getting $2,500 for the front one, you're
[7:58] going to change that and you're only
going to have one family in there.
[8:04] » And so even though the the
[clears throat] house is set up to have
[8:08] two families and everything you need to
have because there must be a kitchen
[8:13] upstairs,
>> correct? And you have all separate
[8:17] utilities upstairs.
>> Uh,
[8:21] » yes. No, maybe.
>> Uh, electric. Yes.
[8:23] » You have electric. Okay.
>> Yeah.
[8:26] » Um, and the water comes off of them. But
you me are you metered separately on
[8:31] that
>> on the water?
[8:33] » Yeah.
>> Just one.
[8:35] » So if you had rented it out as two
parties,
[8:39] you they would have paid you for the
water bill or how would that have
[8:42] worked?
>> I take care of the water. Okay. Yeah.
[8:45] And I plan to keep taking care of the
water bill.
[8:48] » Okay. Yes, sir.
>> If you're smart, you'll have that water
[8:50] separated into two meters. Believe me,
>> they won't let me.
[8:53] » Well, no, he can't now. No, he can't now
because he wants one unit.
[8:57] » Well, they they said I can submeter it
and keep track of it myself, but SD1 and
[9:01] uh Northern Kentucky said we're all
trying to get it on one. So, which I
[9:05] allow.
>> Yeah. So, are you going to remodel the
[9:08] upstairs
to to remove what would have normally
[9:14] been the kitchen into something else?
>> Um, I wasn't planning on it.
[9:21] » Well, here's my dilemma. If you're
saying to us we ain't going to put three
[9:27] tenants in there,
>> right?
[9:29] » But the second floor of the house is
still set up for that.
[9:35] We have no way of knowing whether you
decreased it or you just told us you
[9:41] would and then later on because
everything's a possible and I'm not
[9:45] saying you'll do it it would happen
immediately but say you sell the
[9:49] building
>> now we're back in the same dilemma of
[9:54] you can't have two and yet the house is
set up for two.
[9:57] » Yeah. So I I'll jump in there. Okay.
>> I mean, obviously, if this board
[10:01] approves this as a uh variance, you're
going to make it very clear as a part of
[10:05] your findings that there can only be two
units on this property. Okay?
[10:09] » Right?
>> So, obviously, it then becomes a code
[10:11] enforcement issue. If there is any
evidence of a third family in there, and
[10:15] it's not going to be hard, in my
opinion, from a code enforcement
[10:18] perspective to determine there's going
to be a third family in there, and then
[10:21] he can be cited. I Yeah,
>> I mean, I don't Mr. Evansson, if you
[10:25] want to weigh in any more on that. I I I
guess my thought is is I think the
[10:28] purview of this board is to determine
whether this is a reasonable
[10:34] um variance to maintain a non-conforming
use. I think as far as enforcement of
[10:39] that being only two families, I think
that's a code enforcement issue outside
[10:43] of the purview of this board.
>> It it is, but
[10:47] » you don't want to set yourself up for
failure. I understand.
[10:49] » Yes. That's that's really where we're
coming from is we get we leave the
[10:54] enforcement people with a inability to
do their job because how would anybody
[11:01] ever know that there were two tenants in
that building and one tenant in the back
[11:07] building?
There's would be no vis probably no
[11:10] visible signs that would dictate that.
>> Well, maybe this will help us a
[11:16] clarification and just some general
questions. Um, have have you removed
[11:21] like the the identity of the second unit
that's on that's in [clears throat]
[11:26] that? Meaning like have you taken out
the kitchens for example? The kitchen
[11:30] the second
>> I have I haven't done any of that
[11:32] because there's people living.
>> Okay. Yeah. So,
[11:35] » how many people are living there? Two
families.
[11:38] » Well, no, just one one person each.
They're just single. So, one person
[11:42] down, one person up. Okay. So, right now
it is being lived in by two separate
[11:47] entities.
>> Correct. But one of those tenants wants
[11:50] to move to the the project we're doing
garage and
[11:54] » Okay.
>> And her lease the the downstairs is up
[11:57] in February. So, it's good timing on my
end to get him to the back to offer her
[12:03] the whole house. Uh and if not, I find
another tenant. I was going to do one
[12:09] lease. I I know what your concern is,
but
[12:11] » Yeah. And I just bought the property, so
I intend to hold it.
[12:15] » Yeah. And and I I understand that, you
know, the intent here is one property,
[12:21] front property, one family, the back
property, one family. Whether it's a
[12:25] single individual or a family, probably
have to be a no more than two.
[12:30] The the problem is that
if we grant this, how are we giving the
[12:37] code enforcement people the ability to
differentiate whether you have one lease
[12:44] or two leases in the front building
while still having a lease in the back
[12:49] building
and in the GU and converted garage. You
[12:54] see what I'm saying? Well,
>> there's there's no way e externally to
[12:58] tell that.
>> But what if I mean what if in my own
[13:01] home residence I wanted to have three
kitchens? That doesn't mean I've got
[13:06] three families living in there, right?
>> I understand.
[13:08] » So, I mean, it's
>> But see, we we aren't talking tonight
[13:13] about your family, your house.
>> Well, it is.
[13:16] » We're talking Huh.
>> This is my property. This is my house.
[13:19] » Well, and it is, and I understand that,
>> right? But at this time it is rent all
[13:25] rental property.
>> It is
[13:27] » and so you know the opening question
would is always going to be
[13:32] in code enforcement which is what
brought you here.
[13:36] How are they to differentiate when you
have complied from when you have not
[13:41] complied since there's no external way
if you leave that kitchen in?
[13:47] » Well, one point of clarification. It
wasn't code enforcement that brought us
[13:50] here. It was the building inspector when
he came for the occupancy permit saying
[13:55] you couldn't grant the occupancy permit
because it was non-conforming. Um I I
[14:00] guess what assurances can you provide
them that you will only have one family
[14:04] confront you after you that person?
>> I mean I guess from a paperwork
[14:09] standpoint one lease. I mean that was
the intent [clears throat]
[14:12] one.
>> Okay.
[14:15] Um I this is a first for me so I don't
know what other insuranceances I mean
[14:21] » obviously everyone respects their own
privacy right
[14:24] » sure absolutely
>> I wouldn't want someone coming into my
[14:27] house three kitchen and I don't think
that's what you're getting at um
[14:32] » well but as long as there are two
kitchens in that front in that home
[14:37] » right
>> we have a situation where at any point
[14:40] in time there could be two different
tenants
[14:45] Mr. Chair, I have a few comments if you
don't mind.
[14:47] » Fine.
>> Um, in terms of zoning, we don't limit
[14:50] the number of kitchens that you can have
in place.
[14:53] » Um, so there's a couple things. Uh, and
I'm kind of go through a few bullets. In
[14:58] the city of Dayton, you have a rental
license.
[15:00] » So, the city won't give them a separate
license for the upstairs. Uh, another
[15:05] thing is with this decision that you
make, I record a land use restriction on
[15:08] the deed. So, it sticks with the land.
Another thing that's kind of maybe a
[15:12] little bit outside of the box thinking
that is the accessory dwelling unit
[15:16] concept is becoming much more po
popular. So not only are you creating an
[15:20] accessory dwelling unit on this
property, [clears throat] but in effect
[15:23] that upstairs can be seen as an
accessory dwelling unit. There might be
[15:27] a situation where you've got an aging
relative or an adult child that wants
[15:32] some independent living, but it's all
under one lease. And this this layout
[15:35] would work out really nicely for that
particular type of customer because they
[15:38] do have their own um kitchen, bathroom,
entrance, but it's still under one
[15:44] lease. Technically, an accessory
dwelling unit, which is a single family
[15:48] house with an accessory dwelling unit.
So, from a zoning perspective, I'm not
[15:52] too concerned about this getting outside
of our control because there will be
[15:57] [clears throat] paper trail, like I
said, the land use restriction and there
[16:00] will also be the rental license that
they'll have to get to rent it out.
[16:09] So the my other question is okay you
you've rehabbed this uh carriage house
[16:16] and um I'm very familiar with that
because when I was in college I lived in
[16:20] a carriage house in Columbus, Ohio. But
the thing that caught me about this was
[16:27] I saw the pictures that you that were
submitted and from what your detail
[16:34] tells me is every you've rehabbed the
place.
[16:38] What does it look like now? I mean, you
said it was pretty dilapidated before
[16:43] you got started.
So, I'm kind of curious, for lack of a
[16:48] better phrase, as to what it looks like
now as Have you redone the outside also,
[16:54] by the way?
>> Yes, sir.
[16:56] » Okay.
>> Can I approach?
[16:57] » Sure.
>> Oh, absolutely. Come forward.
[17:01] » Oh, yeah. I was just noticing a moth.
It's just odd to see a big moth like
[17:05] that this time of [laughter] year.
>> Cold weather drove him in.
[17:16] Okay.
[17:25] » Okay.
Unfortunately,
[17:28] that is a new garage door.
>> And is that a key or an activated?
[17:37] I I wondered about that cuz I figured
nobody's going to park in that garage if
[17:41] you can't activate the garage door from
the outside when you drive up.
[17:46] » You raised a roof or was it always?
>> Uh, it was always
[17:51] windows up there.
[17:57] » Okay.
>> Do you have any pictures of the I'm
[18:00] sorry, I knocked it off. Can you see
pictures of the inside?
[18:04] » Did you actually do the work or
myself.
[18:09] » Okay.
[18:13] » When you say I know you said this is
your part-time job, you have a full-time
[18:17] job.
>> Okay.
[18:21] » And so, how does that work when you have
a crew and you're working a full-time
[18:25] job?
>> That's my wife.
[18:27] » Oh, okay.
>> Look at my hands. I just came from
[18:33] » Oh, I'm hardwork.
>> Oh.
[18:37] Well, the fact that you've done all this
in that amount of time.
[18:44] » So is now that's a picture. Is that as
far as you've gotten now?
[18:48] » I haven't got any pictures.
>> Okay.
[18:52] » Okay. So when when this is all finished,
you'll have a bedroom, a kitchen,
[18:57] any is is that the extent of the space
available? [clears throat]
[19:00] » Studio. Yes, sir.
>> Kind of a studio room.
[19:03] » Bathroom. Kitchen.
>> Okay. Well, yeah. Bathroom. Obviously,
[19:06] we have to have that.
>> Okay.
[19:09] » So, basically,
all of these together adds up to three
[19:15] bedrooms.
[19:18] » Well, the two two bedrooms in the first
in the front house and one bedroom in
[19:23] the back.
>> Three beds. Yes.
[19:25] » Yeah. Oh, that's what I meant. I didn't
mean to imply it was anything other than
[19:29] that.
>> Okay. And so when this thing is all done
[19:36] and you're going to go out and u you
know rent it. I know you put into your
[19:43] thing here that the original plan was
that the front the house would have had
[19:51] two units one for 1300 and one for
1,200.
[19:56] And now you've got the back unit and the
combined front unit.
[20:00] So, the bottom line is you're going to
what? Have to take the front unit and
[20:08] have less than $2,500
because you probably won't get $2,500
[20:14] rental for that.
>> Oh, absolutely. Yeah.
[20:16] » So, the intent was to have three units,
right?
[20:19] » You understood?
>> 2500 plus probably like,000 or 1,100 for
[20:24] the
>> for the back of the garage, right?
[20:26] » Okay. So that would have totaled 36, 37,
>> right?
[20:30] » I think the front house I'll probably
ask 18 or 19 just depending on,
[20:37] » you know,
>> for the whole thing.
[20:38] » For the whole thing.
>> Okay.
[20:40] » And then for the back unit, probably 11
or 12 at this point. So I'm getting less
[20:45] rent.
>> I was going to say this this is not
[20:50] » worked as well. You're going to get more
rent,
[20:53] » correct? But not as much as the three
units might have garnered for you as a
[20:58] separate
>> hurt even more if we don't go forward
[21:01] with this.
>> Excuse me.
[21:03] » I mean it's it's it's even more painful
if he can't put anybody in the back.
[21:06] » Oh, I understand.
>> Yeah.
[21:08] » You know, cuz he you're you're dealing
with a house that's somewhere between
[21:12] 150 and 125 years old. That's when that
neighborhood was built.
[21:17] » 1865
house.
[21:20] » Okay. Even older than I thought it was.
>> I don't know. I was going for 1875, but
[21:25] okay.
>> I don't think the garage is that old. I
[21:27] know it's not because it's different
stone, but the original house is old
[21:32] stone foundation.
[21:36] » Is that That's pretty amazing. That
means that the first the h the carriage
[21:40] house was actually used for carriages.
>> It's a beautiful property. I'll tour you
[21:45] around [laughter] anytime anytime you
want.
[21:48] » Uh I I understand. And it's u I've been
down 8th Street a lot of I haven't paid
[21:53] particular attention to that uh house
but I know a lot of houses in the in
[21:59] that area have been upgraded and I think
that's wonderful. So u yeah that kind of
[22:05] answered all my questions. Is anybody
else
[22:08] » I just got most
evidence of the case but you paid 2.95
[22:12] for it?
>> Yes sir.
[22:14] » What do you think it's going to appraise
for our computer?
[22:18] forunately not as much as I put into
town.
[22:21] » Uh probably
[22:25] » not bad on a
probably 30 by 100 lot.
[22:29] » Yeah.
>> But it's it's you have my word. We have
[22:32] not spared any expense. I mean I have
>> I I could I
[22:36] » qualified if I didn't know.
>> You don't have off street parking do
[22:38] you?
>> Uh we don't have off.
[22:41] » I mean how do they
>> other than the garage? How how how do
[22:45] they
driveway looked at the house to the
[22:48] right of it?
>> Uh yes.
[22:50] » Okay. That's how they get Okay. Okay.
>> But you know they can park in the garage
[22:54] to be fire rateated the whole
>> Okay.
[22:56] » So you do have all street parking.
>> Yes.
[22:58] » Okay.
>> Yeah.
[23:00] » For that one. And then the the person
that does the front will park on the
[23:05] street.
>> Which is the way it's been for ever and
[23:07] ever.
>> I've got two of them parking on the
[23:09] street now.
>> Okay.
[23:12] » Yeah. Yeah. It may go down to one or it
may still be two
[23:16] » depending on
>> depending on you have two bedrooms,
[23:19] » right?
>> You know, you might have a mother,
[23:22] father, and a
>> right
[23:24] » teenage son or something.
>> But it will look like you can even park
[23:27] off the alley in the back, too, if you
want to, I guess.
[23:29] » Yeah, you could. It's right next to the
carriage park.
[23:32] » Okay. I mean, that's if I was going to
pay somewhere, $1,900$2,000 a month, I
[23:37] would
>> I would expect off street park to be
[23:39] honest with you, you know. I don't know
that I've thought of that. I like the
[23:44] idea of it. I just don't know that.
>> Actually, I know I just don't have any
[23:48] space.
>> I say purely irre
[23:51] just
>> Well, right next to the carriage house
[23:53] if you put in a say an asphalt pad
>> could, but it's all raised.
[23:59] » Yeah.
>> Yeah. I couldn't tell from the pictures.
[24:02] Okay.
>> It was a mess getting an excavator back
[24:04] there. I had to knock down a wall to dig
the trench. So,
[24:07] » I have no
>> Yeah, I don't either, Michael.
[24:11] Okay. If there's uh nothing more uh
before the board, we would enter
[24:15] entertain a motion.
>> Make a motion to approve the request to
[24:21] change from a non-performing use
to as a attached two family to a
[24:27] detached two family unit with two
dwelling by the garage. Then the
[24:31] conditions
do I need to go through all those? The
[24:35] one condition I think we do want to make
sure is on record is that if you ever
[24:39] continue If the dwelling unit is
discontinued, I think what is it? 50% of
[24:44] the value is lost, then it has to revert
back to single family. [snorts]
[24:51] » The lapidated again.
>> Yeah, that would be.
[24:55] » Yeah, a fire would be the only thing
that comes to mind that would decrease
[25:00] the availability of the unit.
>> I'll second
[25:05] motion has been for made and seconded.
Uh, what's the vote? I guess I can
[25:11] already know.
>> I don't vote unless there's a tie and
[25:15] there's no tie. [laughter]
>> Let me resend my vote. I just want to
[25:21] see a I've never seen a piece.
>> All right. So b so based upon that your
[25:27] uh uh application is approved and you
will have a uh two dwelling one tenant
[25:34] each dwelling on that property at that
address and we appreciate you taking the
[25:41] time to come down and see us.
>> Seriously swing by and I'll show you
[25:44] around. It's a beautiful property.
>> I I need to drive down I don't normally
[25:48] drive down alleys but I need to probably
go drive down that alley just for
[25:53] » Yeah. Thank you all. Merry Christmas.
Merry Christmas to you.
[25:57] » See you.
>> Have a good night.
[25:59] » Merry Christmas.
>> How's How's your wife? Sorry. I said hi.
[26:03] Hey, man.
>> Okay. So, the only other thing is if
[26:06] there's any old business, anything.
Anybody? I don't have any.
[26:10] » Just us on. That's all.
>> Yeah. The only thing that's old is us.
[26:14] » You too, pal. Just old business.
>> Yeah. He's creeping up on 70.
[26:19] » Wow.
>> And I'm creeping up on 80. What are you
[26:22] doing? I'm 78. I'll be 79 in March.
>> Yeah, I'll be 79 in uh June.
[26:29] » I'm a little bit older.
>> Yeah, just a couple. This is
[26:31] » There you go.
>> But but I still hold the record up in
[26:34] the culdeac. I'm the oldest.
>> Oh, are you?
[26:36] » Yes, I am.
>> But if you come up then I'm second.
[26:40] » Yeah.
>> Well, I'm right there at the quarter, so
[26:43] you could almost include.
>> Yeah. Well, that's probably one time.
[26:46] Well, I guess you could be included. I
said, "I really don't care." [laughter]
[26:51] You're those you're one of those Lincoln
rotors.
[26:53] » Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, bikers.
[26:59] » Uh yes, I am making a motion. U
seconded. Old