[0:04] all right let's call this meeting to
order trustee heading will you lead us
[0:07] in the pledge yes thank you everyone can
stand up
[0:15] the please states of america and to the
republic for which it stands one nation
[0:21] under god indivisible with liberty and
justice for all
[0:31] thank you
[0:33] this evening we have three items under
the fiscal officer and that one first
[0:38] one is the purchase orders
and the amount of 59
[0:42] and
473 dollars
[0:45] with various departments
the next one is the payment by
[0:50] resolution
and that's resolution 2021-45
[0:55] and it is for one item out of various
departments and the last one
[1:01] is for supplemental appropriations
primarily around the cruise list
[1:08] largest one there is for the kingsmill
area
[1:12] for the streets
um
[1:15] there's any questions happy to take them
i have not
[1:20] i haven't remember
anyone
[1:22] is very emotion freely for disorders
i'll make a motion to approve the
[1:26] purchase orders as presented second you
got a much fun mr cisciano and second by
[1:31] miss heading to approve the purchase
orders as presented
[1:35] yes
yes
[1:37] yes
and then is there a motion for
[1:40] resolution 2021-45
i will go ahead and make a motion to
[1:45] approve resolution 2021-45
second you got a motion system on a
[1:50] second line of statement number 2021
[2:05] and is there a motion for our next
resolution
[2:21] the resolution improving supplemental
appropriations for 2021 dispensing with
[2:26] the second reading candidate during the
emergency room
[2:29] yes
[2:32] yes
thank you board
[2:34] thank you are there any items to be
removed from the cassette and don't know
[2:40] i have none
do i have emotions
[2:43] i don't have a motion to approve the
consent agenda as presented second good
[2:47] motion by mr ceciliano
[2:57] all right thank you
and that brings us down to our
[3:02] public hearing that we have we continued
hearing progress from last time so we're
[3:06] going to
uh first i'll make a motion to
[3:10] reopen the public area
in progress
[3:14] second
we've got a motion blind
[3:20] [Music]
[3:27] yes
okay and so how this is going to go is
[3:31] we're going to have a quick uh type is
going to give us a summary of the
[3:35] powerpoint that she showed last time
not the full thing but just the
[3:38] highlights
since we were all here last time and
[3:42] then we're going to open it up for the
public well
[3:46] the developer going to yeah so then you
guys can speak and then we'll open up
[3:50] the public comment for everyone here
who's born against the development if
[3:55] everyone who is going to speak tonight
would be willing to stand up against
[3:58] sworn in now you can do that
thanks
[4:02] and then i'll just swear everyone in and
just a reminder for those that perhaps
[4:06] weren't here the last time when it does
come your turn to speak if you would do
[4:09] so from the podium and then just provide
your name give your address and confirm
[4:13] the fact that you've been sworn in my
apologies in advance and inevitably
[4:16] someone forgets and i really interrupt
you to get that but with that said go
[4:21] ahead
do you solemnly swear affirm that the
[4:23] testimony you were about to give will be
true and accurate to the best of your
[4:26] knowledge of belief i do
and then one other point i'll also make
[4:30] is if you feel free to sit
um it's like church where you forget to
[4:34] tell the
people to sit down um we have all the
[4:38] sign-in sheets for everyone that
submitted one um
[4:50] if you submitted one last time
[5:01] just a minute our batteries died
[5:31] as you guys all heard this is a continue
in progress case that's public hearing
[5:36] from the trustees meeting that took
place on august 3rd
[5:41] and
this case in front of you tonight again
[5:46] case 2021-85
[5:49] and this
case and staff report was presented in
[5:54] its entirety and all we serve and today
just a summary to what was presented at
[6:00] that meeting
and the applicant is silverman company
[6:04] and the property owner is charlie
and bonnie lawson and total across is
[6:11] 17.581
and the property is located at 6810
[6:17] tylersville road and is currently zoned
residential single family the
[6:21] application today is a request to result
into neighborhood
[6:26] business
plant unit development
[6:32] the applicant is proposing uh the
196th attacher
[6:38] detached the residential
uh multi-family building
[6:43] and three commercial lot within with an
intensity of 17
[6:50] dwelling unit per acre
uh three commercial loft
[6:56] along uh tyler's delivered
multi-family and commercial nine
[7:00] building for a two house
hundred ninety six dwelling unit
[7:05] two-story apartment not to exceed 35
feet in height and it is mixed of one
[7:13] bedroom
[Music]
[7:15] unit and two bedroom
density is a proposed as a
[7:20] growth density as the
applicant calculated
[7:25] growth as we stated it is
the entire acreage of the land uh while
[7:31] uh different townships only resolution
required net density which deducts 35
[7:37] percent
for infrastructure roads and easement
[7:42] including 20 percent green open space
[7:48] uh the main access to the development is
uh of tylersville road there will be
[7:54] stop to the property to the west and
there is an emergency exit
[7:59] at the corner of sunderly and
sunny drive
[8:05] sidewalk are proposed around the
development and along the years below
[8:10] a deerfield township require two parking
space per unit and it's provided with a
[8:15] total of 392
[8:19] parking spaces and it is uh distributed
in garages and surface
[8:25] spaces tandem garage and 20 detached
garage tool
[8:30] to the north
[8:35] let's keep on buffering
20
[8:39] green open space is required and
um
[8:44] 38.5 is provided and the same 25
of the 20 supposedly to be active and
[8:52] they are providing 48 and for uh
active open space
[8:58] landscape buffering a 70 foot
landscape buffer is proposed along nano
[9:06] side about engrossment south residential
single family with six foot privacy fans
[9:12] will be placed on the peak under
of the
[9:17] amount
the buffer with amount of
[9:22] six feet
so it will totally will be nine foot uh
[9:27] above existing ground
and this is a
[9:31] section
of how would be demand with the fans
[9:36] and the distance from the residential
first residence to resident to the
[9:43] north
and that
[9:46] until it get to the first building will
be over 104 feet
[9:54] the neighbor went with the development
and requested a buffer along the
[9:59] building 9 and was provided to protect
this residential single family that was
[10:05] recently built in
in february
[10:09] there are two retention pounds proposed
one to the northwest and one to the
[10:14] south east
and
[10:17] the buffers stop here but there is a
fence
[10:21] provided along this section
of the pump to the nose and i stated the
[10:28] access on sunbury and sunny drive is for
emergency use only
[10:36] the elevation two-story not to exceed 35
feet which is required for residential
[10:42] single family
to keep the the character of the area as
[10:48] a residential
farmhouse sky
[10:54] the board is to debate and discuss this
uh
[10:58] proposed development in light of
deerfield township comprehensive plan uh
[11:04] looking at adjacent land use
in the surrounding
[11:09] if there is an any unique feature and
correct
[11:12] characteristic of the land and
the quality and character of the
[11:18] proposed open space
from planning perspective this
[11:24] development was designed sensitively to
meet
[11:27] requirement as stated in the pud
requirement for the preliminary site
[11:32] plan in deerfield township zoning
resolution
[11:38] and board action
there are 18 conditions
[11:43] um as proposed in the staff report
that was provided to you
[11:50] that's concluded the presentation
sam hell is here and myself will try to
[11:55] answer any question you may have
[11:59] thank you
questions that i do actually um so there
[12:04] was a little confusion the past couple
of meetings about on the staff report
[12:08] page 14. might you have that my class
yes
[12:19] on page 14 in the first paragraph where
it says most of those uses are permitted
[12:25] either by right or by specific standards
in the neighborhood business district
[12:29] except for the multi-family
do you have the same page i have yes i
[12:35] do
can you maybe expand on what that means
[12:38] i've seen a lot of confusion around that
statement that's a legitimate confusion
[12:43] yes absolutely i have seen it's typo you
think it's a type of absolutely okay
[12:50] assam do you agree
[12:56] multi-family
multi-family is permitted
[13:00] with the condition that it's
above
[13:03] commercial so that's why that statement
is in there
[13:07] so it has to be
under straight zoning it has to be
[13:12] above the first level of commercial so
commercials on tylersville directly
[13:16] behind would be
multi-family that's what you're saying
[13:21] no so if it was a straight
neighborhood business zone it would have
[13:25] to be like a first level store second
level three level the only way you can
[13:30] the only way residential is permitted
with commercials would be
[13:36] you know stacking essentially yeah so a
mixed-use building is what you would
[13:41] have to have
under straight zone
[13:44] and there's a percentage that
is capped for
[13:49] the residential component of any type of
mixed use
[13:53] development
based on
[13:56] the overall square footage
of the buildings
[14:03] when the confusion comes that we went
right to page 14 yes it's in confusion
[14:08] but if you go back to page 13 when it
was it's explained that the current
[14:14] proposed use is for a horizontal
um
[14:19] of mixed use horizontal which means not
like what's required like the first
[14:25] floor commercial and multi-family on top
or residential anchor
[14:30] okay
[14:34] yes sorry that's why i want to pay and
the whole thing makes sense
[14:40] thank you
[14:44] okay and then do we have representatives
from silverman
[14:48] yes thank you
my name is ryan silverman vice president
[14:52] of silverman company and i have been
sworn in
[15:09] so you can
[15:25] thank you good evening everybody uh
before i get started i'd just like to
[15:29] take
a few moments to
[15:33] uh introduce some other members of our
team
[15:35] we have house silverman president of
silverman company with us tonight tim
[15:39] burgoyne is our director of
site acquisition and development we have
[15:43] michael den with
market foresight michael's one of the
[15:46] country's premier experts in
housing demand analysis
[15:51] demand
forecasting for housing and feasibility
[15:54] you'll be hearing from michael a bit
later in our presentation we also have
[15:58] john del verne and alex bash with
fairbacker
[16:01] engineers and we'll be hearing from
them a bit later as well
[16:08] we're excited to be before you this
evening to present our preliminary
[16:11] development plan and request for stage
one zoning map amendment to allow for
[16:15] new horizontally integrated mixed-use
development in deerfield township
[16:20] proposed plan incorporates a mix of
commercial residential uses
[16:25] into a cohesive
plan that will feature
[16:28] pedestrian-friendly infrastructure and
plentiful open space
[16:33] as we will demonstrate this evening the
proposed site plan is consistent with
[16:37] several the development guidelines and
goals stated in the deerfield township
[16:41] comprehensive plan vision for 2035.
we'll make mention of these
[16:45] consistencies throughout our
presentation
[16:48] deerfield township is currently in the
process of updating its comprehensive
[16:51] plan via the becoming deerfield
initiative
[16:54] the becoming deerfield initiative's
proposed landing's designation for this
[16:57] particular site is area b2
which recommends a mix of uses that will
[17:01] provide for gradual transition from
tylersville road to the residential
[17:06] subdivision
to the north known as rosemont cell
[17:10] as illustrated on our site plan the
proposed development as mixed use in
[17:14] nature provides for gradual step down
and use intensity incorporates sound
[17:19] planning principles
and demonstrates consistency with the
[17:22] current pattern of development that's
occurred along this portion of the
[17:26] tylersville road corridor
as you will see the commercial component
[17:31] of our site is located along tylersville
road which is a major thoroughfare
[17:37] essentially connecting i-71 with i-75 so
we're proposing three commercial
[17:43] buildings with a mix of uses that could
consist of retail
[17:48] restaurant
office space and some medical uses as
[17:52] well
we also have the clubhouse building for
[17:55] the apartment community that will sit
north of the commercial uses along
[17:59] tylersville road as well
the clubhouse will feature
[18:03] a slew of amenities that we'll touch on
later as well as leasing and management
[18:07] offices
the primary point of access for this
[18:11] development will be via a
signalized access point at tylersville
[18:16] road and fireside drive
and then as haifa mentioned in her staff
[18:20] report
the
[18:22] warren county engineer's office is
requiring we provide a
[18:27] gated access point from this site to
thornberry court a gated access will be
[18:32] for emergency services vehicles only
[18:38] as i mentioned the commercial uses
as we head north will step down and
[18:43] transition and transition to two-story
multi-family buildings in the middle of
[18:48] the site
and then further transition to a very
[18:51] robust landscape buffer
with mounting and a privacy fence
[18:56] near the northern border of the site a
landscaped mount will be approximately
[19:00] 70 feet wide and approximately nine feet
in height
[19:03] with a six foot high privacy fence
being installed on top of the mount
[19:09] the proposed landscape mound is
consistent with the transition section
[19:13] of the vision for 2035 comprehensive
plan which states that landscape buffers
[19:18] fences
and or walls should be used between
[19:20] adjacent developments of different land
uses
[19:27] i mentioned earlier
about the the
[19:31] vehicular accessibility i wanted to
touch on the robust network of
[19:36] pedestrian infrastructure we're
proposing to install throughout this
[19:39] development as you can see we have
sidewalks
[19:44] throughout the entire development to
promote
[19:46] pedestrian walkability
from for the residents here
[19:53] and
to access various uses throughout the
[19:57] residential component and also to be
able to access the commercial buildings
[20:01] along tylersville and also get access to
the sidewalk system that we will tie
[20:07] into that's already installed along
portions of tylersville road
[20:12] the foregoing will promote walkability
and is consistent with the circulations
[20:16] and connections guidelines within the
vision for 2030
[20:19] 2035 comprehensive plan
which says the vehicular pedestrian
[20:23] connectivity should be provided between
existing and new developments to avoid
[20:27] creation of isolated islands of
development
[20:30] initially
um
[20:34] you know there were there was talk about
connecting here uh the red that was a
[20:38] concern of the residents which we'll
touch on later and the warren county
[20:42] engineer
uh the warren county engineer's office
[20:45] simply said just
that we can gate it off and make it
[20:48] emergency access only
in terms of storm water management we'll
[20:52] have detention basins in both the
southeast and northwest corners of the
[20:56] site
here's a detention pond
[20:59] at the southeast corner of the site and
another smaller one at the northwest
[21:03] corner of the site
the detention basin at the southeast
[21:07] corner of the site will have a walking
trail around it that will tie into the
[21:10] rest of our
pedestrian sidewalk
[21:14] system we have provided for a very
generous amount of open space on the
[21:19] site
the deerfield township ped zoning
[21:22] regulations require 20 percent of open
space with 25 percent of that open space
[21:27] being designated is active
in terms of total open space on our
[21:31] proposed plan
we're far exceeding what is required is
[21:34] we have provided total open space of
approximately
[21:39] 6.76 acres which is equal to 38.5
percent uh total open space
[21:46] which which is significantly higher than
the 20 percent requirement with 3.235
[21:51] acres of that
uh being designated as
[21:54] active open space which is equal to 48
um
[21:59] of the total open space being designated
as active which is significantly higher
[22:03] than the 25 percent
requirement in the zoning
[22:07] code
the mis the mixed use nature of the
[22:10] proposed development the overall site
design and the plentiful open space
[22:14] provided are all consistent with goal
numbers three and five contained within
[22:18] the vision for 2035 plan goal number
three is identified as township identity
[22:23] and states promote mixed use plan
development through community character
[22:27] and land-use guidelines and the zoning
resolution to create neighborhoods with
[22:31] distinct identities
goal number five is title parts and open
[22:35] space suggests
suggests to promote the retention of
[22:39] open space which can be used for active
and passive purposes and the private
[22:43] development process the site layout and
as you will see next the architecture
[22:48] will both serve to create a unique sense
of place with plentiful green space and
[22:52] walkability
[22:55] our vision for the multi-family
component of the site
[22:59] is to create an architectural design
that mimics high-end single-family homes
[23:03] currently
seen in the region
[23:06] we're proposing what's known as a
farmhouse style aesthetic that is that
[23:09] is inspired by current upscale
single-family home designs
[23:13] examples of this style can be found
throughout deerfield township including
[23:17] several examples from the kensington
subdivision which hosted home in 2019.
[23:23] next you fought the the next few slides
just showed some
[23:26] examples of farmhouse architecture
within single-family home product that
[23:33] served as
the inspiration
[23:36] for the design that we came up with for
the multi-family buildings on our parcel
[23:40] so
there's an actual
[23:43] elevation of
what we're proposing for the
[23:47] multi-family component
the high quality architecture is
[23:50] consistent with the guideline within the
vision for 2035 comp plan that states
[23:55] development should re-analyze building
materials and other similar features to
[23:58] ensure the projects function efficiently
and effectively
[24:02] as you can see the buildings exhibit a
far farmhouse style of architecture
[24:06] our two stories in haydn have pitched
roots they were designed to mimic the
[24:10] look of a single family home we plan on
incorporating two to three
[24:14] different color schemes in order to
create an appropriate architectural
[24:17] rhythm
throughout the site and there's
[24:20] a few slides that show some of the
proposed color combinations
[24:27] the proposed architectural styling
[24:36] is consistent with the transitions
guideline contained in the vision for
[24:39] 2035 comprehensive plan which states
that infill new redevelopment projects
[24:44] should be compatible with existing or
planned adjacent land uses in terms of
[24:49] size height scale materials and design
elements
[24:53] the image currently on the screen
is actually a photorealistic digital
[24:57] image
that was
[25:01] super
this
[25:03] the these are real wireframe models
of our architectural drawings that were
[25:08] then
superimposed on drone aerial photography
[25:12] so you could really get a sense for what
this development is going to look like
[25:16] in in
in the real world not just on a flat
[25:19] elevation drawing i think this
rendering
[25:22] while it's a little bit outdated because
this is from the original site plan that
[25:27] we submitted back in
early in the year which shows 30 town
[25:32] homes along the northern
property line which we'll talk about
[25:36] later we've actually eliminated those to
create a larger buffer but i think if
[25:40] you look at the middle of the site
and the commercial uses along
[25:45] tylersville they blend in very well with
the existing uses
[25:49] the buildings are two stories in height
have pitched roofs
[25:53] which are
similar to the single-family homes
[25:56] located to the north and then the
commercial buildings are very similar to
[26:00] the commercial uses that you see along
tylersville road
[26:04] both east and west of this site
[26:09] uh as i mentioned we have made some
changes to the site plan which we'll
[26:12] summarize later
but i'd like to point out that while
[26:16] this image includes conceptual
architectural renderings for the
[26:19] commercial portion of the site
we would bring in actual
[26:25] commercial renderings um or actual
renderings for the commercial uses at
[26:29] the stage two
um at the stage two you know for for
[26:34] stage two's any commission approval
while for multi-family we can develop
[26:39] elevations and we know exactly who our
target market is with commercial uses
[26:43] it's it's different because
often uh the design of a of a commercial
[26:49] building is user driven it's market
driven so
[26:52] these are just conceptual what the
buildings could look like but ultimately
[26:56] the users that would be attracted to the
site will have some influence on on
[27:03] the architectural aesthetic of these
buildings
[27:07] the nature
of commercial development as i mentioned
[27:11] is user driven we're already seeing
significant interest from commercial
[27:16] uses for this location and we're very
confident that the commercial space
[27:20] we're proposing on tylersville road will
fill very quickly given the site's
[27:24] visibility along tylersville convenient
access and pedestrian-friendly mixed-use
[27:29] design
that will
[27:32] that will allow for pedestrian access
and the signalized
[27:37] access point on tylersville road will
allow for very easy and convenient
[27:41] vehicular access
[27:44] the apartment homes you're proposing on
the site will be designed to appeal to
[27:48] both working professionals and empty
nesters who are renters by choice and
[27:52] demand a maintenance free lifestyle that
apartment living provides
[28:00] our plans call for a mix of both one and
two bedroom floor plans the one bedroom
[28:04] floor plans will generally range in size
from 775 to 930 square feet with a rent
[28:10] range of twelve fifty to fourteen
hundred dollars a month all the two
[28:13] bedroom floor plans which will all the
two veteran floor plans also have two
[28:17] full bathrooms those generally would
range in size from eleven hundred and
[28:21] thirty to twelve hundred fifty square
feet with a rent range of a pro of
[28:25] approximately sixteen seventy five to
eighteen
[28:28] fifty per month we've developed two
other high-end apartment communities in
[28:32] deerfield township over the last few
years we've found that empty nesters
[28:36] find our two-bedroom floor plans very
attractive we expect similar demand
[28:39] levels from empty nesters at this
community which is consistent with goal
[28:43] number seven of the vision for 2035 plan
called housing quality and diversity
[28:48] goal number seven states
that new development should promote
[28:52] housing types that are attractive for
older adults and close proximity to
[28:56] groceries retail and healthcare
facilities to increase mobility options
[29:00] outside of auto dependency
the residential component of this
[29:04] development will provide an attractive
housing alternative crafty nesters who
[29:08] are renters by choice and wish to
downsize into a housing choice that is
[29:12] 100 percent maintenance-free
the pedestrian infrastructure that we
[29:17] that will be provided within our
development will connect to adjacent
[29:20] pedestrian infrastructure will provide
walkability to retail restaurant and
[29:25] several healthcare uses including a
pharmacy
[29:30] each apartment home will feature 9-foot
ceilings throughout quartz or granite
[29:34] countertops in every kitchen and
bathroom stainless steel appliances led
[29:38] lighting washers and dryers many
many apartment communities only come
[29:44] equipped with the hookups but we
actually provide a full size
[29:47] washer and dryer
in every every home within our
[29:51] communities
the apartment community will be fully
[29:54] amenitized and professionally managed
with a clubhouse that will feature
[29:57] on-site leasing and management offices a
resident lounge
[30:01] game room
co-working space conference room
[30:04] state-of-the-art fitness center pet spa
complimentary wi-fi and coffee bar
[30:11] some of the outdoor amenities that will
be included throughout the site
[30:14] are
the aforementioned a robust amount of
[30:17] green space a dog park resort style pool
fire pit gaming lawn
[30:22] and outdoor gathering spaces
[30:27] it's one thing to tell you how nice the
residential component of the proposed
[30:30] development will be but we'd like to
show you some pictures from two other
[30:34] high-end apartment communities that
we've developed in deerfield township
[30:36] over the past few years
i'm confident these photos will
[30:40] effectively illustrate the high quality
development we're proposing to build on
[30:44] this site
in each case we took architectural cues
[30:47] from surrounding development to arrive
at an appropriate architectural
[30:50] treatment so all the exterior
architectural styling of these two
[30:54] communities is very different than what
we're proposing on tylersville road the
[30:58] interior finishes floor plans and
amenities at the proposed
[31:02] development will be very similar to
those found at these other communities
[31:05] this first photo on the screen is one of
our buildings at one deerfield
[31:10] you can see it's a different style what
we're proposing at tylersville but this
[31:14] this blends in with
some of the buildings located in close
[31:18] proximity some of the use is located in
close proximity to one deerfield
[31:23] i'll flip through these quickly that's
that's uh that's a photo of our
[31:27] leasing lounge and leasing lobby at one
deerfield
[31:31] there's a photo of the resident lounge
space game room
[31:36] that's our library which which we call
our co-working space our library it's
[31:41] great space for
residents to work and collaborate
[31:46] leveraging off of our high speed
complementary wi-fi and powerful usb
[31:50] ports throughout that space
there's a photo of the main lobby of the
[31:55] building
here's a photo of some of our outdoor
[31:58] amenities that's our wine and beer
garden at one deerfield
[32:02] this is our fitness center lounge so our
fitness center actually has its own
[32:06] lounge where we provide complimentary
bottles of water and juices for our
[32:11] residents
there's our fitness center
[32:15] it's a very typical kitchen
in one deerfield you can see the quartz
[32:20] countertops 42 inch wall cabinets
high end led pendant lighting
[32:26] this is a typical master bedroom one of
our two bedroom units all of our two
[32:30] bedroom units come with a double bowl
master vanity which is a really nice
[32:35] feature
all of our bedroom sizes are
[32:39] are
generous and allow for
[32:42] king-sized beds
it's not a very exciting photo but shows
[32:46] just the very
generous amount of closet space that we
[32:50] provide
in our bedrooms closet space is actually
[32:53] very
very important although not not too
[32:56] exciting it's
something that's very important to to
[33:00] our residents it's a photo of a laundry
room these next slides that are that's
[33:05] an exterior photo of the grandstone
grandstone once again is in a different
[33:10] part of the township we took cues from
the surroundings to arrive at an
[33:15] appropriate architectural treatment this
is much more traditional than what we're
[33:20] proposing at tylersville road
there's a photo of our pool it's great
[33:24] great space that our residents love
there's a photo of a dog park a resident
[33:29] lounge at the grandstone
this is green space courtyard between
[33:35] two of the buildings at the grandstones
it's a great space for residents to
[33:38] relax socialize
hang out
[33:43] throughout this process
we have
[33:48] listened to
many concerns from neighbors
[33:52] um we
reached out to the rosemont south
[33:57] homeowners association in march to
schedule a
[34:00] really in a formal
for unfortunately we couldn't do it in a
[34:03] face-to-face fashion was done via zoom
on march 29th
[34:07] and we invited you know kind of uh gave
a brief overview of what we're proposing
[34:12] and invited
residents of rosemont south or any other
[34:16] nearby
subdivisions to to ask us questions
[34:20] we also heard additional concerns from
residents that were voiced during the
[34:26] three zoning commission meetings
one of the
[34:30] first concerns we heard was traffic i'd
like to point out that we've engaged
[34:33] bearer vector engineers to complete a
traffic impact study a traffic impact
[34:37] study has been completed
and submitted to the warren county
[34:42] engineer's office it's been reviewed and
approved by the warren county engineers
[34:46] office
and we as the applicant would be
[34:48] required to make any traffic
improvements
[34:51] per warren county engineer's office
requirements
[34:56] it's also important to note that
apartments do generate less peak
[35:01] impact the retail restaurant or office
space
[35:08] another neighbor concern that we heard
initially with schools
[35:12] it's important to note that the proposed
departments will be very similar
[35:16] although wrapped up in a different
package they'll be very similar to what
[35:20] we've built at the grand student one
deerfield
[35:23] both of those communities as well as
this community are designed to appeal
[35:27] to ranchers by choice who are typically
working professionals or empty nesters
[35:34] so we find that the
impact of schools from the grand stone
[35:38] and one deerfield has been very minimal
as further illustrated by this slide the
[35:43] urban land institute in conjunction with
the national multi
[35:47] housing council and the sierra club
along with the american institute of
[35:52] architects published a study called high
density development myth in fact the
[35:57] study concluded that single-family homes
averaged 64 children per 100 units while
[36:03] apartments averaged 21 children per 100
units apartments generate real estate
[36:08] tax revenue for local school districts
while generating very little additional
[36:12] demand on schools
this evidence is further supported by
[36:16] the fact that very few children live at
the grandstand in one deerfield both
[36:19] communities have rates of children per
100 units that are significantly below
[36:24] the national averages reported so the
grandstone
[36:28] uh at last check was was just under
seven
[36:31] per 100 units and one deer field was
only at approximately 2.91
[36:37] children per 100 units so these these
two
[36:40] developments
generate significant amount of tax
[36:43] revenue for local schools without
without providing much in the way of any
[36:47] additional burden
another neighbor concern we heard was
[36:51] property values
there's another study that was
[36:54] commissioned by the national association
of home builders that found
[36:57] the value of single-family homes within
300 feet of a multi-family community
[37:02] increased 2.9 percent per year
compared with value single-family homes
[37:06] not near a multi-family community
increasing at only 2.7 per year
[37:12] the study concluded the possible reasons
for this
[37:15] are the new apartments are an indicator
that an area's economy is vibrant and
[37:19] growing i think that's certainly the
case in deerfield township
[37:22] multi-family housing may increase pool
the pool of potential future home buyers
[37:26] creating more demand for homes
we'll touch on that again in a moment a
[37:31] new multi-family especially as part of
mixed use often makes an area more
[37:34] attractive than other communities that
have fewer housing and retail choices i
[37:39] just want to touch for a moment that we
we find
[37:41] um and have found at the grandstand of
one deerfield that they they contribute
[37:45] very positively to what
michael den and i call the
[37:50] circulation of housing so we've had
many people move into the say the
[37:54] grandstone it's a little older than one
deerfield it has a five and a half year
[37:58] almost six year operating history people
that move in maybe they work for procter
[38:02] and gamble maybe they work for luxxotica
maybe they work for cintas
[38:06] intelligated you name it any of the area
employers
[38:09] and
you know they might be single at the
[38:11] time they're working professionals and
maybe maybe they find a significant
[38:15] other during their time
living at the grandstone and then
[38:19] eventually they might they might have a
child and they've then outgrown the
[38:21] apartment and
when somebody moves out they have to
[38:25] provide a form to us called a notice of
intent to move out and on that form they
[38:29] state their forwarding address so we can
return their security deposit and we
[38:33] find that a significant percentage of
the time
[38:37] those folks are buying a home
with a mason ohio mailing address which
[38:42] means it could be deerfield township it
could be mason
[38:45] but it's in in the area um
and and many of those are in deerfield
[38:50] township some are mason but the point is
these folks
[38:55] are are choosing
for their first many of their first time
[38:59] living in this area to live in an
apartment
[39:01] they love living here they see the great
community the deerfield is and all the
[39:04] amenities and all the the community
amenities but also the amenities in
[39:08] terms of
shopping and retail and restaurants and
[39:11] park space like like hotel
and then you know when they're ready to
[39:15] purchase they're they're keeping their
roots in
[39:19] in the area so i think that's
speaks volumes
[39:25] it's also important to note that the
newest section of beacon hill which is
[39:29] the townhome condominium community along
wilkins boulevard the last section of
[39:34] that is located at the intersection of
parkway drive
[39:38] and
wilkins boulevard and one deerfield
[39:42] commenced construction during the third
quarter of 2018 and that's also when
[39:49] beacon hill was finishing their last
phase i think it's important to note
[39:53] from this slide
the number of sales of condominiums at
[39:56] beacon hill that occurred after one
deerfield commenced construction i know
[40:01] these footnotes at the bottom are hard
to read there were actually three
[40:04] three sales
that actually sold
[40:08] while one deerfield was under
construction and then sold subsequently
[40:12] when one deerfield was even further
under construction and those three sales
[40:17] all sold for more after one deerfield
started construction than they did prior
[40:20] to one deerfield starting construction
so i think that also
[40:24] um
speaks uh
[40:27] in a in a
positive way about some of the concerns
[40:30] that we heard and the
living near rental housing options does
[40:35] not have a negative impact on property
values
[40:38] another concern we heard was safety
i think it's once again it's important
[40:43] to note the operating history of the
grand stone and also the the more
[40:48] the newer operating history of one
deerfield but they're both very quiet
[40:52] and extremely well maintained
communities and each has been a very
[40:55] positive addition to deerfield township
both the grandstand and one deerfield
[41:00] are adjacent to owner-occupied homes
it's important to note that all of our
[41:04] residents undergo stringent credit and
criminal background screening
[41:08] and it's important to remember that our
residents are making a lifestyle
[41:12] decision to not own for many reasons
including busy careers
[41:15] and a desire for a maintenance-free
living experience
[41:21] there have also been some studies done
on
[41:26] studies that compare
crime rates in single-family homes
[41:29] versus crime rates and apartments
the particular the
[41:34] the most well-known study was conducted
by the arizona multi-family housing
[41:38] association
and concluded that the perception of
[41:41] more crime
around apartment communities many times
[41:45] comes from the practice of reporting
crime statistics by address for example
[41:50] apartment community with 100 units
at the same address so it might be the
[41:54] same
same street address but each unit has
[41:58] each apartment home within the community
has its own unit number
[42:02] but they may be reported as
is
[42:06] you know several incidences at the same
address but it might just be that you've
[42:10] got 100 100 homes at one address
the study concluded that when police
[42:15] data is analyzed on a per unit basis
instead of a per address basis the rate
[42:19] of police activity in apartment
communities is no worse than
[42:22] single-family subdivisions and in many
cases is lower than single-family
[42:27] residential areas
at this point i'd like to introduce
[42:31] michael den
as i mentioned earlier michael
[42:35] is with market foresight and he's going
to share a few of his conclusions
[42:38] regarding demand for the proposed
development
[42:48] up here
it is
[43:03] thank you
[43:08] good
[43:23] how am i getting over there
[43:34] that's not that
[43:59] yes
[44:11] is
[44:25] sam is not
caught
[44:40] okay
is this yours or this will happen
[44:47] this right
here that's it
[44:53] there you go great thank you
ladies and gentlemen i'm michael den i'm
[44:58] the principal of market foresight my
address is 124 garrett street in
[45:01] covington kentucky
41011 and i've been previously sworn in
[45:06] good evening
[45:08] i've been serving your township for well
over 10 years
[45:12] i've been an advisor to the other
projects mentioned this evening the
[45:15] grand stone
at one deerfield
[45:19] i've been serving teams and
civic leadership like yours for 21 years
[45:24] now
[45:26] i'm currently
looking at projects in mason lebanon
[45:30] blue ash in westchester i've served
of late the cities of hamilton and
[45:34] middletown
i just want to establish a level of
[45:38] trust and who i represent represent you
your neighbors
[45:42] your future and as an expert by dealing
data
[45:46] and experience
[45:51] the result of that is that our household
has changed
[45:53] forced in part by the downturn in 2007
financial crisis 2008 through about 2010
[46:00] and that downturn revealed that we had
uncovered a brand new household
[46:05] throughout our region
an affluent upscale renter renter by
[46:09] choice we'll come back to that phrase
a little bit
[46:12] then we had the 14-month pandemic to
really put a punctuation point on that
[46:17] working from home being huddled in
our home was our office it was our
[46:22] our place of worship it was our
classroom
[46:32] i've got a few slides here probably too
many for tonight
[46:38] i start this assessment like the
hundreds of others that i've done
[46:41] and the blue pin you see is the site and
i create for the township the
[46:46] surrounding neighborhoods uh some trade
areas
[46:50] for your neighbors the right area you
see is a nine minute drive in any
[46:53] direction from the site
the green reading you see is an
[46:57] additional six minutes of area we can
influence just kind of where i start
[47:01] looking at
the profiles
[47:04] now i subscribe to all the demographics
that
[47:08] you've all seen before and i have all
these tables here and i start to learn
[47:11] the language but i don't rest on them
very often
[47:15] it turns out that my value that i've
learned over the years
[47:18] is to before i get into the housing
stock and square footage and two
[47:22] bedrooms or granite countertops
i want to take the time to learn who's
[47:27] behind the front door
in your township
[47:32] not just by a census number not just by
any camera age
[47:35] and there's a service i employ
using market segmentation it's called
[47:40] tapestry by esri another license that i
have
[47:44] and i've used this for many many years
what i found is that when you can
[47:48] combine
deep data not just census data
[47:52] but school records
voting records credit card usage
[47:57] travel internet
you can paint a picture anywhere in the
[48:01] country
on in your neighborhood the kind of
[48:04] lifestyle who's behind that front door
now this service provides 67 different
[48:09] segments they'll have goofy names like
brightness professionalism but i use
[48:12] this because it helps me
help you understand who's nearby what's
[48:17] happened
since the pandemic perhaps what's
[48:19] happened since the downturn what's
happened last
[48:23] 20 years
within that
[48:26] magnet
drive today
[48:30] our 30 000 households and
727 by measure
[48:35] rental households one out of four
of the households in that red area
[48:39] are renters and they rent something
they might rent a house they might rent
[48:43] your condo
they might be in an old duplex they
[48:45] might live in a duplex and rent out the
other side
[48:48] we'll get into housing's talking
[48:54] in that green ring a little further out
of area influence are twice the number
[48:57] of renters almost fifteen thousand
that just describes a depth of market
[49:03] and when i brief clients like the silva
medic company
[49:06] they want to first understand what's the
character and depth of the people we're
[49:11] going to serve before we think about
land price
[49:14] and zoning and square footage and we did
that for this one i was available for
[49:18] the grandstone
and for
[49:21] one deerfield
and when you start the language this way
[49:25] what happens is you begin to erase some
of the old attitudes
[49:28] the old stigmas
about renters
[49:33] the cries of low income
of higher crime
[49:37] of lower values
can quickly be
[49:41] countered
by significant data that describes who
[49:43] these householders really are
the reality is today that we have a very
[49:48] valued householder that chooses to rent
it's not about income
[49:52] it's usually about a smaller family size
in almost every case it's about mobility
[49:57] i'm going to be here for two years
if i choose to stay as ryan very
[50:01] eloquently said
that the probability of now then buying
[50:06] close by in your township because of the
existing grids is very high
[50:12] we say renter by choice because in fact
and i have details later if you wish
[50:18] the renters were talking about starting
at 1200 1300 1400 a month can afford to
[50:23] buy the vast majority of houses here in
deerfield township because also had the
[50:27] down payment of course but in terms of
that
[50:31] they choose to be here as a renter not
because of
[50:35] their income because their connection
so i'm going to represent you i've got a
[50:40] few more slides to discuss
represent your household your
[50:43] constituents and frankly i want to
represent 196 households can't be here
[50:48] tonight
because they don't get live here
[50:54] my job for the clients of you tonight is
to measure this
[50:58] accurately some of the segments
deal with people you understand one of
[51:02] the segments i looked at was called
enterprising professionals they're
[51:05] throughout the township
they look like the young couple there
[51:09] they like attached the housing actually
looks like our applicant's housing
[51:13] and throughout the nation they're about
a median age half above and half below
[51:17] 35 years old about 2.48
in household size they don't yet have
[51:22] children
and
[51:25] they don't yet have a mouse that works
there we go
[51:30] i found the adjacent households fit this
profile
[51:33] by the inside about half of them choose
to rent their home
[51:37] and i found these in great numbers
around the side of the new township
[51:42] they're not found everywhere they're
found in
[51:45] by docs there you can see the west coast
over to new england down in atlanta
[51:50] columbus cincinnati
[51:54] this slide just shows in that same
perimeter area that these two
[51:57] neighborhoods one just south of site
the majority
[52:02] of all the householders in there are
these enterprising professionals what i
[52:06] do with this
in terms of metrics this is where
[52:09] numbers
offer some clarity yes for all the
[52:12] segments i can find i do some math and i
create a table that measures demand i
[52:18] look at their lifestyle
i look at a threshold income of say
[52:21] twelve hundred dollars
and i'll turn to my client or i'll turn
[52:24] to the board of trustees and say
by conservative measure nearby
[52:30] we've found a few thousand
by a lifestyle they're existing renters
[52:36] and they have the income to afford
fourteen hundred dollars one month
[52:41] lenders and underwriters use this
development teams even the architects
[52:45] use this
on the supply side i mentioned who who
[52:49] who rents nearby 7 500 folks let me show
you
[52:53] in an area by that blue shade which
covers pretty much all of that core area
[52:57] of nine minutes
be kind of hard to see but the vast
[53:00] majority of rental housing stock are
scaled apartments older apartments over
[53:06] 200 units big vast all of the same
there's a small share of rental homes
[53:11] and detached homes
conducts and so on
[53:16] i can show you where they are
what jumps out of me as i see this plot
[53:20] all the symbology you see are scaled
multi-family the red dots are those that
[53:25] are coming they're in development right
now
[53:27] is in the crossroads of your township
in a connector between the two uh
[53:32] there's there's no
no place to land it's in this corridor
[53:36] i'm not sure you can see my cursor
corridor down to the south of my
[53:40] client's minutes over towards mesa
a lot going on over here near union
[53:44] center
over in butler county
[53:48] and a little bit further north by
liberty all the players
[53:52] many of these developers are my clients
[54:01] i can also plot for you rental
condominiums and pockets of condom
[54:04] projects where the absentee owner is now
renting you their economy
[54:08] all this is meant to do on the supply
side is trying balance if i find 7 500
[54:13] runners i want to find 7 500
occupied rental housing stock and see
[54:19] where the unmet demand is
just for fun there all those red dots
[54:24] are rental detached homes in in and
around the township
[54:30] may be hard to see and i that's hard for
me to see
[54:33] but from there one of the key
intersections i offer any development
[54:38] team
any planning director
[54:41] politician or lender
is the opportunity that lies ahead
[54:47] for a new development here for those
that can afford over fourteen hundred
[54:52] dollars a month i found over five
thousand target renters
[54:57] in the core market i found only about
2800
[55:00] scale departments at those rents or
higher in fact if i count only new
[55:05] projects it's only about 1600 and
they're going to ask me what are they
[55:08] running
there's two answers one is
[55:13] they couldn't find the right apartment
that's close to them so they'll run a
[55:16] house so they'll rent your old condo
but by and large what mostly happens is
[55:20] these very deserving households that
want to be in your township that
[55:23] probably have come from the township
and create that rotation that ryan
[55:27] talked about because they settled
they could afford 1400 a month easily
[55:32] but the best department they could find
was 11.50 so that's what they're renting
[55:35] and when you think about it the risk
horizon for those families and
[55:39] households is only 12 months
[55:43] upscale renters the most liquid
residents and and fuel for property
[55:48] values and new development in our
country
[55:52] and in terms of detail because i want to
serve you an ongoing basis
[55:56] i provide a proprietary study
to my client i'd be available with their
[56:01] consent to show you more detail about
this
[56:04] especially as their designs evolve but
we can zoom down to the driveway level
[56:08] the site is over
here guys you can see the neighborhoods
[56:12] and the folks have been here notice that
just
[56:15] just northeast of the site is a
condominium community where there's a
[56:18] lot of absenteeism
condos
[56:28] i always wanted to be an architect
i served some time in the navy before
[56:34] and then got involved in this and but i
was i just like architecture
[56:39] i get to sit in the room often with
their designers and say that really fits
[56:42] the fabric and there's really a lot of
appeal you can charge more for that they
[56:46] look here when you say that i find that
this this approach the examples they
[56:51] used the the architecture and the
message of the building to be
[56:56] cutting edge for all the developments
that i got to serve
[57:02] what questions would you have with me
[57:16] myself available either throughout this
hearing or later as allowed to speak for
[57:21] your market
the competition and what has been
[57:25] clearly measured as an unmet demand for
these kind of
[57:28] rental units
in your township
[57:31] thank you very much
[57:50] how do we get ours
back up would you go back to your
[57:54] powerpoint
yeah
[58:08] yes
[58:11] [Music]
[58:23] yes
[58:47] thank you michael for that excellent
information
[58:51] the site plan that's currently on the
screen shows the original site plan that
[58:55] we submitted back in
january or february
[59:00] as you can see
this site plan included 30
[59:05] two-story
three-bedroom two-and-a-half bath town
[59:08] homes near the northern
near the northern property line
[59:12] and a smaller
buffer zone behind it
[59:16] i'd like to talk about some of the
changes and revisions that we made in
[59:20] the site plan as we've continued to
[59:25] listen to to feedback
from our neighbors
[59:31] we we removed these 30 townhomes
um along the northern property line
[59:38] and that resulted in a decrease
from
[59:44] 216 homes to 196 homes
and an overall bedroom crown a bedroom
[59:50] count decrease of 70.
the other thing on the original site
[59:55] plan
because it was a pud we were requesting
[1:00:01] a variance on parking so
deerfield township zoning code for
[1:00:07] multi-family requires two
parking spaces per
[1:00:12] residential unit irrespective of unit
type so
[1:00:16] irrespective of it being a two bedroom
or one bedroom the deerfield township
[1:00:20] zoning code requires
two spaces per unit so when we did the
[1:00:24] grand stone or developed the grand stone
that's 122 units and we have
[1:00:30] two two parking spaces per unit and we
are
[1:00:34] way over parked there um we've done
studies when we're at full occupancy
[1:00:39] and we're effectively parking at 1.35 to
1.4 spaces per unit
[1:00:46] same thing with one deerfield one
deerfield we were granted a variance
[1:00:49] we're about 1.6 spaces per unit at one
deerfield and we've done the same kind
[1:00:54] of study there and we're right in with a
1.35 to 1.4 spaces per unit which
[1:01:00] equates to
less than one space per bedroom
[1:01:04] so when we came in with this original
plan
[1:01:07] we were at about 1.8 1.85 spaces per
unit is what we were requesting
[1:01:13] and we did hear concerns from
neighbors that
[1:01:18] you know
they were concerned that we didn't have
[1:01:22] enough parking
we did we had plenty of parking but
[1:01:25] just belt and suspenders we decided to
go back and revise the plan
[1:01:30] and and we were able to get rid of
the townhomes in the back and do some
[1:01:36] other things and we now have
two parking spaces per dwelling unit so
[1:01:41] we have
plenty of parking
[1:01:44] that's just on the residential component
of course for each commercial outlet
[1:01:49] when we bring those in for stage two
depending on the uses
[1:01:54] that sort of show up to the dance so to
speak we would have um
[1:01:58] the part you know we've got a couple
restaurants on one outlet then
[1:02:03] we might need more parking if we've got
a medical use
[1:02:06] on another one we might need less
parking but those of course would be
[1:02:09] brought in and the parking for those
would be
[1:02:12] the zoning commission would have a
chance to scrutinize that during the
[1:02:15] stage 2 approval process as i mentioned
earlier
[1:02:18] we spent a lot of time this evening
talking about the multi-family component
[1:02:22] that's because
we know exactly who our market is
[1:02:26] we have experience uh with this with
this product type and we're able to
[1:02:31] knowing who our target market is design
a unit mix and design an architectural
[1:02:36] aesthetic that we know is going to
strike a very positive chord with our
[1:02:41] target market commercial we're every bit
as excited about the commercial
[1:02:46] uses avalon tyler's mills we are
the uh residential component but it's a
[1:02:53] different paradigm and commercial
development and in retail in particular
[1:02:57] it's really user driven so we've already
had some very positive conversations
[1:03:01] with with medical uses and
restaurant uses and
[1:03:06] as this progresses we're very confident
that
[1:03:10] this will be very high demand space as i
mentioned earlier given the
[1:03:14] accessibility given the pedestrian
walkability given its its prominence on
[1:03:19] tylersville road given the fact that
retailers and restaurants love it when
[1:03:23] you've got a captive audience on site in
this case 196 homes directly behind it
[1:03:28] that's a captive audience that can they
can
[1:03:31] walk to you on a on a daily basis to
support your business so
[1:03:36] one of the other site plan revisions
that we
[1:03:40] made
uh the when we we were showing the 30
[1:03:44] town homes we had a buffer zone that was
about or 44 feet wide with a six foot
[1:03:50] high mound
by eliminating these town homes which if
[1:03:54] you look at the current site plan
that's before you this evening by
[1:03:58] eliminating those 30 town homes we're
now able to increase
[1:04:02] the width of the
buffer from 44 feet to 100 feet and
[1:04:07] increase the mound height from six feet
to nine feet and as mentioned earlier
[1:04:12] we're proposing to install
a
[1:04:15] six foot privacy fence
on top of the mountain and of course
[1:04:19] we'd have plantings on the mound as well
to provide a nice natural buffer
[1:04:25] with these changes
[1:04:29] let me get this on the screen okay with
these changes we're now able to achieve
[1:04:34] the following distances so the distance
from the back
[1:04:39] one thing i forgot to mention
when when when we got rid of the 30 when
[1:04:43] we eliminated the 30 town homes
increased the buffer and the buffer
[1:04:48] width and increased amount height we
added 20 detached garage structures
[1:04:53] along uh near the northern property line
but south of the buffer so you can see
[1:04:58] those proposed structures there we're
proposing
[1:05:01] 20 of those and those you can see those
on your site plan
[1:05:04] but now when you look at the distance
from the back of the proposed attached
[1:05:08] garages
to the property line
[1:05:11] where we're at 104 feet
when you look at the distance from the
[1:05:15] back of the detached garages to the
nearest house it's 177
[1:05:20] feet when you look at the distance from
the nearest dwelling units
[1:05:25] to the nearest house
it's approximately 259 feet
[1:05:30] and as mentioned earlier with these
changes we've also significantly
[1:05:34] increased
our
[1:05:38] open space acreage
and our active open space acreage as
[1:05:41] well
at one of the zoning commission meetings
[1:05:45] i believe it was a rosemont south
subdivision
[1:05:49] resident referenced the typical distance
between
[1:05:52] the houses right here on the east side
of sunny drive
[1:05:56] so the distance between the back of
these houses
[1:06:00] to the west side of the condominiums
on clear water drive
[1:06:05] so as this can be seen from this side we
took a representative measurement the
[1:06:09] distance from the homes on the east side
of sunny drive the back of those homes
[1:06:13] to the multi-family
units to the east is approximately 215
[1:06:18] feet
so by eliminating the town homes
[1:06:22] we now have a distance from the north
side
[1:06:25] of our multi-family dwelling units to
the south side of the homes on glenstone
[1:06:31] way
of approximately 259 feet
[1:06:35] which is 44 feet longer
than this distance so
[1:06:40] we've
we've exceeded
[1:06:43] the the comparable uh distance that is
kind of on the ground today between the
[1:06:49] east the east side of the sunny drive
home
[1:06:52] uh the the sunny drive homes and the
west side of the
[1:06:56] of the multifamily
along
[1:06:59] clear water drive
[1:07:06] as i mentioned
a moment ago
[1:07:10] we've now increased the width of the
buffer to 100 feet and now the mound
[1:07:15] that we're proposing is 70 feet wide
once again six foot high privacy fence
[1:07:21] on top of the mount for a total peak
height of 15 feet
[1:07:24] and we're proposing to plant evergreens
on the
[1:07:28] north side of the mountain
[1:07:36] [Applause]
[1:07:40] we also heard safety concerns from
residents
[1:07:45] relative to the
detention pond located here at the north
[1:07:50] west corner of the site
in response to those safety concerns
[1:07:55] we've proposed to install
a
[1:07:58] privacy fence north of the pond and on
this 45 degree angle
[1:08:03] heading
southwest
[1:08:06] and then
here
[1:08:08] on our property we're proposing to
install
[1:08:11] a a four foot high black aluminum fence
so upon to address safety concerns
[1:08:18] would be completely
fenced
[1:08:22] in um
the other concern that we heard and we
[1:08:27] didn't hear this one really until the um
right before the last meeting
[1:08:32] was
um
[1:08:34] residents expressed the concern that the
mound here so the 70 foot wide mound
[1:08:41] didn't extend
all the way
[1:08:44] to our western property line
and the reason
[1:08:49] that
[1:08:52] it's difficult to do that is because
this this this detention pond needs to
[1:08:57] be
in this location uh we've had bear
[1:09:00] becker we've taken last couple weeks to
have bear becker our civil engineer do
[1:09:04] some further study on the grades and the
volumes required on that pond i'm
[1:09:09] actually going to invite john del verne
who's a principal with bear becker
[1:09:14] to to come up and speak to you a little
bit about about this pond about the size
[1:09:18] of it and some ideas we have
to to provide a buffer between the north
[1:09:24] side of this pond and the resonance to
the north so john
[1:09:34] the next three slides are really
and then there's one more after that it
[1:09:39] shows you the cross section
okay
[1:09:49] good evening again john delbert with
fairbacker 6900 towersville road mason
[1:09:54] ohio four five zero four zero
i have been sworn in
[1:09:59] yeah i'd like to try to mention i'd like
to share some information about the
[1:10:03] stormwater management program for the
for the project
[1:10:06] i have advanced
some study of the of the grades and the
[1:10:11] stormwater
analysis
[1:10:14] basically an effort to confirm that you
know what we're shown on the conceptual
[1:10:17] pud plan is realistic
so
[1:10:21] basically we'll start with the drainage
area and it's a little hard to see the
[1:10:24] unfortunately see the existing
topography on this
[1:10:26] on this site that's what i start with
they're actually two distinct drainage
[1:10:30] areas that we that the project will
drain to the
[1:10:34] the
ridgeline high point of the site really
[1:10:37] kind of runs like this
so everything
[1:10:41] south and east drains to tylersville
road into the roadside ditch ends up in
[1:10:46] a culvert at
these property line here and heads east
[1:10:50] everything
north and west of this ridgeline
[1:10:54] heads north and ends up in a culvert in
rosemont it's one two three four right
[1:11:00] here stashed in there it's hard for me
to see from here but a 48 inch culvert
[1:11:04] pipe
that extends into rosemont
[1:11:08] not only is it it's about seven acres
here
[1:11:10] that drains that way
and the other 10 and a half drains this
[1:11:14] way in addition to that 48 inch that
tributary to that 48 inch culvert pipe
[1:11:19] is really a large part of this parcel
remaining partial to the west it all
[1:11:23] drains north and runs along the rear
property line and ends up in this 48
[1:11:26] inch culvert
so
[1:11:30] logically we have our two drainage
outlets one of our goals when we're
[1:11:34] designing sites is to maintain the
pre-developed drainage sheds try to
[1:11:38] mimic those in the post developed as
best as we can we don't always get it
[1:11:40] exact but we get pretty close
so to do that we need to put a detention
[1:11:46] basin close to the outlet here can't be
up here on the high ridge it's got to be
[1:11:50] here
at the low spots we can capture as much
[1:11:52] of our
development as possible so we can
[1:11:56] control that stormwater rate that we
release to the downstream system
[1:12:01] same here we've got our outlet point
here
[1:12:04] we've got the potential basin located
primarily in the lowest spot of the site
[1:12:09] the stormwater basins are required by
warren county and the ohio epa
[1:12:14] they're two separate requirements we
usually address both of them in
[1:12:18] a detention or retention basin
moore county stormwater regulations
[1:12:24] primarily focus on flood control so
we're looking at larger storm events to
[1:12:28] control the release from those events
usually one year storms to like 100 year
[1:12:33] storm event
then the ohio epa focuses on water
[1:12:36] quality so we're talking about more
frequent storm events
[1:12:40] and smaller storm events than the ones
that we look at for flood control
[1:12:44] so we kind of could get said and
accommodate both of those in the
[1:12:47] stormwater basins
so this is really where
[1:12:52] these bases are necessary by regulation
i think any
[1:12:56] development that would increase or add
impervious area to the site would
[1:13:00] require storm water bases and they i
would think even a different plan you
[1:13:04] would see a storm water basin in this
location and a second one here and
[1:13:07] that's the way the right way to design
the stormwater program for this site
[1:13:13] let's see if i can go to the next slide
here these are just some blowups of the
[1:13:16] two basins this is the one in the
northwest corner i just have some more
[1:13:20] detail on the one in the southeast
corner
[1:13:24] both basins have about the same
ponding depth
[1:13:29] between the normal pool they are white
basins between the normal pool and it's
[1:13:32] not raining
elevation and 100 year elevation about a
[1:13:36] little over five feet each
of storm water depth
[1:13:41] the good news is my preliminary analysis
really confirms the sizes in the
[1:13:48] footprints that are shown on the
conceptual ped plant it's about the
[1:13:51] right size
very similar in footprint they the
[1:13:54] footprint of the water shifts a little
bit you have to
[1:13:57] accommodate grades to create a berm to
create the impoundment so it may shift a
[1:14:01] little bit but it's really really very
consistent with the
[1:14:06] conceptual pud site plan
[1:14:10] and as ryan mentioned
there were some concerns about sidelines
[1:14:14] in the northwest corner where the
large buffer mound here has to terminate
[1:14:20] so we can construct a detention space at
this location
[1:14:24] so we decided to do a cross section
there
[1:14:26] the cross section is plotted along this
red line so that's what you see down
[1:14:30] below is a slice along the red line
looking west
[1:14:34] so for example for reference this is our
north property line for the project that
[1:14:39] property line is represented right here
by this dashed line
[1:14:42] center line of that drive aisle
right here ceremony on the drive aisle
[1:14:47] here
in between this the center line and the
[1:14:50] north property line is our detention
basin it's the low area it's a low area
[1:14:54] between these two lines right here
represents our detention basin and then
[1:14:58] to the right of that is that our berm
that we're using to create the
[1:15:01] impoundment the top of that berm is at
an elevation of 874.3 based on
[1:15:06] preliminary analysis if you compare that
with the elevation of the at the
[1:15:11] property line at 860 i think it was 868.
it's about as little over 6 foot called
[1:15:17] 6.3 feet
in height
[1:15:20] so to supplement that
um screen at that location we proposed
[1:15:25] to put a uh a fence on top of the burner
and that fence is shown you can see as
[1:15:30] it comes down the larger mound comes
down to our detention base and we just
[1:15:33] run it right around here
in that area right on top of the berm so
[1:15:38] i show an
eight foot high fence on the berm on
[1:15:41] this particular graphic which will give
you a little over a 14 foot screen from
[1:15:45] the elevation at the property lines at
the top of the fence
[1:15:49] so with that those are basically my
comments with regards to stormwater if
[1:15:52] you're happy to answer any questions
excuse me john yes um it's been brought
[1:15:58] up that in 2014 the student health is in
a different location for a prior
[1:16:02] development
and
[1:16:05] i wonder if you know anything about that
or if you could speak to maybe theirs
[1:16:08] was in the
wrong place or the right place for that
[1:16:12] time or so it was more in the middle of
this property well
[1:16:18] so
so it was a prior concept plan that was
[1:16:21] did not move forward
it wasn't ours okay you know um
[1:16:27] the the culvert pipe is right here
so this is the inlet of it and where the
[1:16:33] storm sewer system runs downhill to the
north and through the development i mean
[1:16:37] i could see potentially this pond moving
east a little bit you know if i had it
[1:16:42] centered right on top of that culvert
pipe that could be
[1:16:46] that could be one solution right
but i don't see it moving
[1:16:51] south
for example because now you're moving
[1:16:53] uphill
and it really needs you know water needs
[1:16:55] to drain downhill to capture all of the
water otherwise now you're
[1:16:59] bringing water uphill and then trying to
take it back downhill and it gets very
[1:17:02] difficult i haven't said i haven't done
it before but it gets
[1:17:05] very difficult very tricky and there's
usually some sort of compromise
[1:17:09] in the design if if you have to do that
so
[1:17:12] i can see it moving maybe a little bit
east but i don't see it moving
[1:17:17] i don't see it moving south how does
adding in the nine foot tall
[1:17:22] sperm of
planting how does that affect the way
[1:17:25] the water's flowing because when that
effect that would essentially change if
[1:17:28] we were to build
that uh mound all the way across that
[1:17:32] would change where the low point of the
high point of the land would be right
[1:17:36] right right well
as far as the amount here um
[1:17:40] right now the water you know the high
points down here somewhere the water
[1:17:44] just sheds this way nothing impedes it
right it's all downhill
[1:17:48] from south to north
when we put the mound in what's going to
[1:17:51] happen is the top of the mountain that
water's going to shed off into the rear
[1:17:55] yards here but everything
south of that mound is going to come
[1:17:59] back to our storm sewer system to be
piped into the basin
[1:18:02] so we're actually it's actually going to
help us collect and maintain keep water
[1:18:07] on on the site so we can
treat it and store it in our detention
[1:18:11] basis
[1:18:15] but i think we're already moving dirt
around right yeah we can create like a
[1:18:19] new low area just because i i'm
concerned that
[1:18:24] first of all like where that is
and and looking at your your drawing
[1:18:28] here i mean people's headlights are
going to be coming in because it's
[1:18:31] uphill
where the road is from where these
[1:18:34] people's houses are i feel like
headlights are making them right they're
[1:18:36] back into their bedroom windows out of
their backyard your headlights aren't
[1:18:40] usually focused
up and out they're usually focused out
[1:18:43] and down a little bit but that's right
across from where the entrance is so
[1:18:47] cars are going to be coming in all night
yeah and they're down and so i imagine
[1:18:51] right here you see the road line you can
see the road and that's the car it goes
[1:18:55] straight it looks like it goes straight
across and through there so just from a
[1:18:59] grading perspective
you know the ridgeline's down here
[1:19:02] somewhere right we're going to probably
mimic that with our proposed grid so
[1:19:05] we're going to be in a downward
trajectory as we
[1:19:08] this road will be falling down
so it's not like they're coming up a
[1:19:13] hill and shining lights up they're going
to be shining lights down
[1:19:16] typically screens screening requirements
for all parking lots for headlights 30
[1:19:20] inches i would say
you know we're going to have a fence
[1:19:24] that's going to be
top of that it's going to be roughly 82
[1:19:29] 882 i believe
we're at probably 75-ish that's an
[1:19:34] average grade might be even lower here
might be closer to 74. so we're going to
[1:19:38] be five six feet you know easily
seven feet
[1:19:42] easily below the top of our screen here
so i just don't see that as a
[1:19:49] as an issue if anything i think we're
helping the situation out here
[1:19:55] so if we come back to
the
[1:19:59] detention pond
um if we can kind of
[1:20:06] if you were to extend that berm all the
way to the property line wouldn't that
[1:20:11] then funnel the water back down into the
pond if you were to lower that
[1:20:17] um and then still be able to have that
burn
[1:20:20] and then the you know the water
to the north would go to
[1:20:24] the the drainage into the south it would
funnel then
[1:20:27] into
a pond if you were to move it say south
[1:20:31] a little bit
in terms of that great
[1:20:34] because you'd have you know that high
burn right
[1:20:37] would that funnel that down into
in that area and then you wouldn't have
[1:20:40] to necessarily worry about
where you know where it's going and
[1:20:44] trying to pump it back
right i think the the problem with that
[1:20:48] is the footprint of that mound is is
very large
[1:20:52] um
and it would i looked at trying to get a
[1:20:55] basin in this location it just isn't
possible it's just to you know without
[1:21:00] sacrificing a major portion of the plan
it's it's just it's not feasible
[1:21:06] one thing the one of the previous
[1:21:11] sections that was shown earlier you know
shows that mound pretty uniform well the
[1:21:16] problem is you know grades on this side
are a few feet higher than they are here
[1:21:20] so at three to one slope you've got more
more slope to get to the peak so you
[1:21:25] need more run
on the north side to get to the peak so
[1:21:29] it pushes the pushes the um
the mound you know further further south
[1:21:35] and maybe what that shows that simple
section shows
[1:21:40] so just the footprint of it just
the foot they've created the top of that
[1:21:44] mound where it's shown here the
footprint of it it just totally wipes
[1:21:48] out my detention base and you can see if
you can send these contours straight
[1:21:51] through
and then come back down to the bottom i
[1:21:53] mean i might have a ditch here there
just won't be any storage
[1:21:58] i mean i firmly believe this is the
place the pond needs to go
[1:22:02] i think it'll it'll function very well
at that location
[1:22:15] i'm just looking looking at the contours
that i can see on that map i mean
[1:22:19] they're very
they kind of go towards like the south
[1:22:24] east
almost
[1:22:26] so
i mean we have to lose some parking
[1:22:30] lot
you know we already said we're over we
[1:22:33] have more parking spaces than we really
need that can be something that we give
[1:22:38] up for the sake of
being able to extend is not if you can
[1:22:41] move that south a little bit because
then follow the contours
[1:22:44] into the kink where that parking lot is
you see what i'm saying yeah i
[1:22:48] understand i understand what you're
saying i think when you start to move
[1:22:53] this infrastructure south i mean you
start to destroy the circulation i mean
[1:22:57] it'll really ripple through the project
[1:23:13] you know again let's not
discount the fact that you know i think
[1:23:16] from the property line up to the top of
that fence we're going to be at plus 14
[1:23:19] feet
for a screen
[1:23:23] and i think that's pretty significant i
think headlights will be definitely tall
[1:23:26] enough to block headlights definitely
you know tall enough to block you
[1:23:30] especially from the first floor down
um yes i think the important thing to
[1:23:35] note is that
if you're if you're a resident and
[1:23:39] you're you're north of the mound
okay so if you're standing
[1:23:55] if you're standing here and if you could
just do a pretty good job of doing this
[1:24:00] for the mic so that everybody can hear
it
[1:24:03] there you go
if um
[1:24:05] if you're standing north of the mound
here
[1:24:10] you're seeing basically
a
[1:24:13] slope
what john is three to one three three
[1:24:15] four three to one slope
that's
[1:24:18] you know you've got a mound that's
roughly
[1:24:20] nine feet high with a six foot fence
that's a 15 15 feet of total buffer if
[1:24:25] you're standing here
in front of what i'll call berm this
[1:24:30] berm that's
you know it's like half of a mound right
[1:24:35] it's really an analogous condition in
terms of what you're looking at because
[1:24:40] you've got a mound that's
six feet high and we're talking about
[1:24:44] doing a bigger fence there an eight foot
high fence so you've got roughly
[1:24:48] 14 feet i mean you're you're within a
foot
[1:24:51] and i mean visually this would be a
three to one slope roughly right three
[1:24:55] to one slow three to one slope plantings
you know evergreens etc
[1:25:00] same thing here so i think visually
um if you're looking from the north
[1:25:05] looking south
i think the visual impact is
[1:25:10] very analogous i think it's
i think it's very very similar
[1:25:14] almost the same what you don't get is
is is the amount that's on our property
[1:25:20] because
and i mean nobody here can see that
[1:25:24] here instead of having the mounds slope
down three to one heading south
[1:25:28] that berm falls off into
into the pond right here
[1:25:32] [Music]
[1:25:36] okay thank you do you have anything else
to present or should we open up we're
[1:25:40] almost done just a couple of couple last
points
[1:25:43] thank you john
[1:25:49] so just just continuing a few more
points on some of the revisions that
[1:25:53] we've made to the plan throughout the
process as mentioned earlier
[1:25:58] you know originally we had a full access
point because
[1:26:03] warren county requested it and then they
they took a look at the functionality of
[1:26:08] some of the other intersections in the
area and said look we're okay with with
[1:26:12] it just being you can cut off the access
point to thornberry court and just
[1:26:17] provide a gate that emergency services
vehicles can use that was a big concern
[1:26:21] early on from neighboring residents was
they didn't like the fact that we had a
[1:26:26] connection to thornbury court so that
that
[1:26:30] that's been resolved
the other comment that we got fairly
[1:26:34] recently was building nine which is kind
of in the northwest excuse me northeast
[1:26:39] corner of the site um
there's a home that doesn't show in this
[1:26:43] area but there's a home there now and
some of the rosemont south residents
[1:26:47] request you know asked us a requested us
to look at um beefing up a visual buffer
[1:26:53] here so we
we kind of pushed the sidewalk south and
[1:26:57] this one sat further south and this one
north and we've been able to create
[1:27:01] a
mound here uh that's roughly four or
[1:27:05] four feet high and then we would provide
plantings throughout that amount so
[1:27:09] that'll provide a very nice
landscape buffer the one the last thing
[1:27:14] in terms of revision
the zoning commission had a comment on
[1:27:18] building one which you have that on your
site plan that's not on the screen
[1:27:23] building one the north face of building
one was
[1:27:27] was further north than the north face of
buildings um
[1:27:35] let me see if i can quickly get it back
on the screen just so
[1:27:49] okay so here you can see building one
the north face of that
[1:27:54] is is
is beyond the north face of these two
[1:27:59] buildings so we had a comment from a
zoning commission member said hey
[1:28:03] can you look at
scooching this building down so that the
[1:28:07] north face of building one doesn't
extend beyond the north face of these
[1:28:11] buildings and we were
you know we were we were we looked at
[1:28:14] that and we were able to accommodate
that request so if you look
[1:28:17] now
on the site plan
[1:28:21] that you have in your packet i'll try to
quickly scoop back there
[1:28:28] can see now that building one is the
north face of building one does not
[1:28:31] extend beyond
the north faces of these buildings
[1:28:35] so
with that i would just say that
[1:28:39] in conclusion the proposed development
is consistent with the historical
[1:28:43] pattern of development seen along this
portion of tylersville road
[1:28:47] and incorporates a step down in use
intensity
[1:28:51] moving south to north that exhibits
sound planning and zoning principles
[1:28:58] the
[Music]
[1:29:00] the the site is uh this plan is in a
convenient easily accessible location
[1:29:06] and i think we've demonstrated the high
quality developments that we've brought
[1:29:09] to deerfield township in the past with
the grandstand one deerfield
[1:29:13] and the proposed development will be of
the same high quality
[1:29:16] i also like to mention again that all
the all the consistencies of this plan
[1:29:21] relative to
the current deerfield township
[1:29:25] comprehensive plan as well as the
proposed update
[1:29:29] i thank everybody for their
time this evening and
[1:29:32] myself and all the members of our team
will be available
[1:29:36] to answer any questions that you might
have thank you thank you
[1:29:40] okay so now we're going to move on to uh
public comment and if you filled out a
[1:29:45] sheet from our last meeting right here
again we have it we're going to call you
[1:29:49] up
uh if you're not here we'll set it off
[1:29:52] to the side in case that person shows up
and then anyone else knew who killed
[1:29:58] that one today it's like you're bringing
it up you can bring them up to mr yoder
[1:30:01] here we'll call you and then just to
remind you when you come up state your
[1:30:05] name your address
and whether you've been sworn in for the
[1:30:09] record and you have miss warnings and
this reader will store you in
[1:30:13] and uh we're gonna do a five minute
limit on everyone's comments you can get
[1:30:18] everyone in i'll find you
[1:30:26] um and i saw a fair number of people
walking in too perhaps are there people
[1:30:30] that intend to speak that were
sworn in already tonight is there a
[1:30:34] decent amount or not
maybe
[1:30:37] well there's only one i could just
handle that when we go there but i
[1:30:40] thought maybe there was a bunch we had a
couple answers about this if there's
[1:30:44] anybody that hasn't been sworn in
already tonight that things they might
[1:30:47] want to give a testimony go ahead
[1:30:51] all right
perfect do you solemnly swear our
[1:30:54] affirmative testimony you'll give
tonight will be true and accurate to the
[1:30:57] best of your knowledge and belief yeah
great thanks you can be sued
[1:31:00] so with that we'll go ahead and get
started
[1:31:03] first person is tim bradshaw
[1:31:14] [Music]
first um so my name is tim radzick 6595
[1:31:19] glenstone way i have been sworn
[1:31:23] um
so i probably won't well i certainly
[1:31:27] don't have any pretty pictures or the
gravitas of some of the previous
[1:31:30] presenters i'm just the guy who plunked
down
[1:31:33] several hundred thousand dollars for a
home
[1:31:36] in deerfield because i love what i saw
there and i love the community and i
[1:31:41] have some concerns
and i don't think they've yet been
[1:31:44] addressed so that's why i'm speaking
today
[1:31:48] according to the speakers i should be
very happy that there's this development
[1:31:51] being built next to my house or it's
down the road from my house
[1:31:57] apparently my property values are going
to increase
[1:32:00] uh crime's going to go down
everything's going to be better or at
[1:32:04] least the same
of course that sort of excludes the fact
[1:32:07] that if something is the same or better
then there's probably some that's going
[1:32:10] to be worse
property values will increase within 300
[1:32:14] feet of the property
apparently due to a study but maybe the
[1:32:19] homes that are right next to the
development aren't going to increase
[1:32:22] that
[1:32:25] apparently
i have misconceptions about renters
[1:32:29] i'll just state i've been in the air
force for 23 years and i've lived
[1:32:33] everywhere i've lived in a metal shack
in baghdad
[1:32:38] and i've lived in a same family home
i lived in uh four bridges apartments
[1:32:44] owned several homes around the country
um
[1:32:47] so i have a pretty good experience of
what it's like to be a renter and a
[1:32:50] homeowner
and
[1:32:53] i would say that i prefer being a
homeowner and i know what it's like to
[1:32:56] live in an apartment with renters and
as much as it's been told to me that i
[1:33:02] shouldn't be happy and i have
misconceptions i don't feel i have them
[1:33:05] i've been one and i know what my
neighbors were like and they were very
[1:33:09] nice people but it's a different
environment and the home next to that is
[1:33:13] a different environment as well
um
[1:33:16] i would say that most every homeowner
here would not be happy if their home
[1:33:19] was torn down or the home next to them
was torn down
[1:33:22] and an apartment community was built
there
[1:33:25] so that on itself
says something about the the data that
[1:33:29] says we should be happy
with this development
[1:33:33] so
um
[1:33:36] i guess my main concern is that this
doesn't seem like a planned urban
[1:33:39] development to me
talked about a little bit right at the
[1:33:42] beginning there's a little sidebar
conversation about
[1:33:46] apartments above businesses or off to
the side if you can draw a line
[1:33:51] through the development and everything
commercials on one side
[1:33:55] and everything residential is on the
other side i don't see how that's
[1:33:58] diversity of housing
i don't see how it's intermingled or
[1:34:02] integrated
i don't see how it's horizontally
[1:34:05] integrated there's a step
so i think it's segregated
[1:34:11] and it doesn't really meet the
sort of definition of a planned unit
[1:34:16] development as i see it
simply saying something is a fact
[1:34:21] doesn't necessarily make it so
a lot of things were said
[1:34:24] i actually think this could be an
interesting development
[1:34:27] i think there are some tweaks that that
should be made i think i think the
[1:34:31] property owners deserve
to earn some money for their property
[1:34:35] and the city
or the the township deserves to have a
[1:34:38] good development that meets the needs of
the people
[1:34:41] but this is sort of being presented as a
false dichotomy
[1:34:45] that
almost like the people who are against
[1:34:48] it
aren't for having businesses a long time
[1:34:51] as well but i would wager to say that
almost everyone here
[1:34:55] is fine with having businesses along
tylersville they just want their
[1:34:58] backyard
i came to ohio and one of the neat
[1:35:02] things i saw different from california
was that
[1:35:05] we have a backyard and it's the next
people's backyard and it's also the next
[1:35:09] people's backyard and you can see all
around and you can have your kids play
[1:35:13] with your neighbors
they're taking the backyard away
[1:35:17] and
maybe that doesn't show up in some of
[1:35:20] the data
but it shows up in the fact that
[1:35:23] no one no one along
glenn stone that i know
[1:35:27] is happy about this development
[1:35:31] i don't think the only option is a high
density housing development which is
[1:35:35] what this is there's a high density
housing development which could
[1:35:39] legitimately be
zoned as such
[1:35:42] and a commercial development next to it
that could legitimately be zoned as such
[1:35:47] and that isn't how a pud should be
the density is odd
[1:35:52] 13.32 units per acre but is presented as
11 units per acre seems kind of like a
[1:35:58] dodge to me
i don't know how you guys define that
[1:36:02] you're definitely the experts in that
but that seems awful to me
[1:36:07] it was interesting that it was presented
as
[1:36:11] our development is going to look like a
modern farmhouse
[1:36:14] how about put a modern farmhouse
that's the promise that was made
[1:36:24] [Music]
[1:36:29] for those people that choose to clap or
be disorderly i will have you escort
[1:36:33] down
people can speak but this is not going
[1:36:36] to be a popularity contest or against it
so please don't test me
[1:36:40] we want to hear everyone but that's all
we want to hear thank you
[1:36:44] so i know that zoning is exciting your
five minutes are up also just you know
[1:36:47] is that when i write what they applauded
is when the alarm went off so if you can
[1:36:51] just wrap up really quickly please okay
i know that zoning isn't a promise it's
[1:36:54] not set in stone changes are made but i
think it's important that all
[1:36:58] stakeholders are considered
that
[1:37:01] especially those who are having harm
done to them should maybe be considered
[1:37:04] a little bit more than those who are
looking to gain something for it and
[1:37:07] again i'm i'm a conservative capitalist
i totally understand the property
[1:37:11] developers needs
but i feel like a promise was made that
[1:37:16] we were going to have at least some
attention considered look at other
[1:37:20] options
to what might
[1:37:22] go behind our homes
rather than to have you know
[1:37:27] 13.32
units per acre
[1:37:31] so my parents always taught me before
you tear a fence down how long it's
[1:37:34] longer because your time really is is
several minutes before you tear a fence
[1:37:38] down you should know why the fence is
put up in the first place i think
[1:37:41] there's a reason why this was zoned as
uh residential
[1:37:44] in the way it was zoned and i think the
change has been appropriate
[1:37:49] [Music]
[1:37:54] all right next person that's out there
is raj up and drums
[1:38:07] my name is raj rupinram
i live on here 65-15 glenn stoneway
[1:38:12] mason ohio i've been swallowing
good evening everybody um
[1:38:16] you know this is the very first time uh
we are presenting um
[1:38:20] from our rosemont south community to the
trustees
[1:38:24] uh and i'm the rosemont south
association president
[1:38:28] uh besides me with other um
board of members in the rosemont
[1:38:32] association we have had several number
of conversations with our um neighbors
[1:38:38] regarding many concerns about this
proposal just to give a quick background
[1:38:42] because like i said this is the first
time we're presenting to you um you know
[1:38:46] when we all bought our houses in like 10
years or 16 years ago we were all pro we
[1:38:51] were all promised that there's going to
be single family houses right behind our
[1:38:55] neighbor like in our backyard but
apparently that didn't happen in 2014
[1:39:01] since then a couple of developers came
into picture and they proposed some
[1:39:04] weird uh you know and greedy proposals
such as they're trying to build some big
[1:39:09] commercial complexes right behind our
neighborhood you know um trying to make
[1:39:14] money um they're all trying to make
money at the cost of our uh you know
[1:39:18] privacy and the cost of our quality of
our life and compromising on the traffic
[1:39:22] and safety concerns and all that so
since then um you know like i said
[1:39:26] couple of uh developers came into
picture and they tried to present it to
[1:39:29] the the trustees and the zoning
commissions and we all came here um
[1:39:34] hundreds of people all the neighbors
came and raised our voices we were very
[1:39:38] clear and loud that we want to maintain
our quality of our life in this single
[1:39:42] family homes because we paid so much of
money into our home for many of us it's
[1:39:48] a it's our dream you know for some of
the people some of the neighbors it's
[1:39:51] their kids education some of their
neighbors it's a retirement amount so
[1:39:56] you know with keeping all those things
um you know the the trustees and the
[1:40:01] past committees they listened to us they
respected our opinion they respected our
[1:40:05] you know the concerns and all that and
they rejected their proposals
[1:40:09] recently when uh the last time the very
first time mr silverman company came and
[1:40:13] presented their proposal it was very
similar to what the previous developers
[1:40:17] did that i mean it was they built the
houses the proposal was very uh close to
[1:40:22] the commercial complexes very right
behind our neighborhood no buffer
[1:40:25] nothing there is no um character no
transition uh been uh followed through
[1:40:32] and we again raised our concern i mean
this might be the eighth or tenth time
[1:40:37] we are coming to this room sometimes we
feel like we are coming more than the
[1:40:40] deerfield officer enquiries here you
know we've been so used to this and this
[1:40:44] has been going on since 2014. finally um
i know every time whenever silverman
[1:40:50] presents his uh presentation those are
very beautiful uh um you know um
[1:40:56] facilities that they're providing like
beautiful lodges and all that but for us
[1:41:00] it doesn't really matter i mean whether
they put the commerce with the golden
[1:41:03] gold plated commerce in their restrooms
or whether they keep the juice water or
[1:41:08] water or you know whatever it's in the
refrigerators we don't care i mean for
[1:41:11] us it no it's nothing for us that might
be for the people who are renting it so
[1:41:15] every time i never come to this meeting
sometimes i feel like i came to rent an
[1:41:18] apartment but most of the times i mean
the the major concern that we raised
[1:41:23] last time too was uh you know
these are all going to be rented out
[1:41:28] to
you know for the rental people and they
[1:41:30] have no vested interest in developing
the community values or relations there
[1:41:35] that that's just their pit stop they
just stay here today and they're gone
[1:41:38] tomorrow so that's why we wanted a
privacy we wanted you know traffic to be
[1:41:43] maintained as well as a security
concerns we raised all that last meeting
[1:41:47] and you know the current proposal they
came up with we kind of uh agreed to
[1:41:52] that because you know we know for sure
that there is going to something is
[1:41:57] going to happen in the backyard you know
and we're not crazy to stop everything
[1:42:01] we we're not asking a single family base
uh single family homes all the way to
[1:42:05] the taylor's room now i know it's a fine
land road we're not doing that
[1:42:09] but the way this is proposed is not
consistent or you know the transition is
[1:42:13] not appropriate and one side it's 16
feet on the glenstone houses now it's
[1:42:18] only six feet or whatever that just
explained what today tonight's my
[1:42:23] request from the homeowners association
is very simple and straightforward we
[1:42:28] wanted to have the developer maintain
the burn consistency across the
[1:42:33] development throughout the development
moving the retention point all the way
[1:42:36] to the south side and we have a bill
here tonight to speak about the
[1:42:41] retention field if if that
retention field is moved to south side
[1:42:45] what are the technical challenges you
know then as far as we know
[1:42:49] there are no technical challenge
challenges involved in moving the
[1:42:52] retention pond
from north to the south probably you
[1:42:56] know we will they'll be compromising on
the building number one and you know if
[1:43:00] they maintain the same consistency and
the thornberry code they'll be
[1:43:02] compromising on the building number nine
and that i'm going to talk about the
[1:43:06] density as well the last time mr
silverman companies presented the
[1:43:10] density
numbers
[1:43:12] they were taking uh the density of 196
units for the whole entire 17.5 acres
[1:43:18] that is not correct that math is not
correct
[1:43:21] 17 point out of 17.5 acres three end of
acres is discard for the commercial side
[1:43:26] so they have to take into consideration
only that 14 acres land 14 acres divided
[1:43:32] by 192 units that's the density that
they need to look at so the density is
[1:43:37] really so high with 196 homes behind our
neighborhood if they they can take out
[1:43:42] the building number one and building
number nine so that they can move this
[1:43:45] retention part all the way to the south
we know for sure the retention point is
[1:43:49] required in the previous meetings
silverman companies presented that
[1:43:52] retention fund is required required they
kept it kept saying 100 we all know that
[1:43:56] for sure that the retention point is
very much required but all we're asking
[1:44:00] is move the retention point towards the
south side and maintain the consistency
[1:44:04] across throughout the development that
will be a nice transition and and there
[1:44:08] is another
16 acres parcel right next to this
[1:44:11] current proposal i'm sure that that is
ready and it's going to be developed
[1:44:15] anytime within no time you know that's
ready for that so once this burn height
[1:44:20] and everything is set
appropriately consistently across this
[1:44:25] will be the precedence for the next
parcel development as well and when we
[1:44:29] are here for the next partial
development hearing the meeting will be
[1:44:32] done in 15 minutes and they maintain the
same same consistency that's all we are
[1:44:36] asking tonight please maintain the same
burn consistency across the development
[1:44:41] so that you know all the glenster
neighbors will have the equal uh quality
[1:44:45] of life and equal uh privacy of their
families that's the main request here
[1:44:50] tonight and also thinking about the
density that density is so high so if
[1:44:55] they can compromise on the building
number one and building number nine that
[1:44:58] takes care of the
the entire issue so that's all i'm here
[1:45:02] for thank you so much for giving this
opportunity
[1:45:06] and um before i leave um i just would
like to um give this copies to the
[1:45:11] trustees um because of the covert
situation not many people can attend
[1:45:15] this meeting today and of course the
lord we have room limitations here as
[1:45:18] well so
all the neighbors almost 120 neighbors
[1:45:21] to sign the petition uh um whatever that
i just asked for and i would like to
[1:45:27] give this to you and there is a um
i mean mr bills bill is our uh building
[1:45:32] inspection engineer he gave a certified
copy of
[1:45:36] uh the saying that the retention pond
can be moved without any technical
[1:45:40] challenges we have that certified letter
here as well and he's been here he's
[1:45:44] been in this field for almost 30 years
which is very well expert expert on that
[1:45:48] so i'm going to give this to you
thank you so much
[1:45:55] all right next person up is chandra
pangalan
[1:46:19] okay
[1:46:36] [Music]
[1:46:52] yes yeah
[1:47:11] is
[1:47:26] i live in 6539 glenn stoneway i've been
sworn in earlier today
[1:47:32] thanks uh dear friend trustee signed
previously all the board members giving
[1:47:36] us this opportunity are presented in the
past but i'm going to present today
[1:47:41] i've heard mr silverman today and in the
past so um
[1:47:46] i will i will basically start with the
plan the majority of the issues that we
[1:47:50] have right now
are because of the light pollution and
[1:47:53] the screening that we have with this
road uh i think a
[1:47:58] lot of trustees you have asked us
questions uh earlier but i just want to
[1:48:01] add on to your questions earlier
from your their presentation
[1:48:06] so
looking at this plan
[1:48:12] the looking at this plan the entrance to
this is most of the entrance is this one
[1:48:16] so we have about 400
car spaces and then
[1:48:20] this is not clearly presented what's
going to come here but i physically
[1:48:24] counted all these parking spaces they
come out to be roughly
[1:48:27] 120
so
[1:48:30] for all of these the entrance is this
one
[1:48:33] day and night 24 hours they use this
space to enter this so what
[1:48:41] so
[1:48:45] so they're going to come using the same
entrance to come into that so
[1:48:50] the mound
earlier was presented that yeah they're
[1:48:53] going to add a 70 foot width with a nine
four to a nine foot mount with a six
[1:48:58] foot uh fence fixed pixel fence on top
of it with some more tree coverage which
[1:49:04] i don't know how long it's gonna take
grow long power or what but it will take
[1:49:08] some time right so the main concern that
we have is these this pond this pond is
[1:49:14] in a terribly worst location that it
could be
[1:49:18] for most of the residents beyond that
area
[1:49:22] uh i'm going to tell uh go to
height
[1:49:25] difference here
bring it down
[1:49:30] so
so this is this is tylersville road
[1:49:33] sorry i put it in a different angle this
is talusville road the future road
[1:49:37] expansion is going to come here so i
think earlier one of the
[1:49:41] person has mentioned that the the
majority of this is this is this is a
[1:49:45] peak of that land the water is going to
come this side right so i measured this
[1:49:50] in a google earth that's about i got it
here 266 meter height that which means
[1:49:56] it's that land that piece of land is
about 260 feet 66 feet above sea level
[1:50:02] right
and then this piece of land here is at
[1:50:06] 263 ps which is my backyard are several
other people's back hairs
[1:50:12] 263 so that's about three feet which
roughly calculates to 10 10 foot high so
[1:50:18] there is a 10 foot height difference car
coming here
[1:50:23] so where is what where is the light
gonna go
[1:50:27] right in here
into my second floor
[1:50:30] i have a picture of that i'm gonna show
that so
[1:50:34] so and then there is a water issue right
and then before i go into the next slide
[1:50:39] i'm going to talk about it there is a
sick 265 here there is a 265 here there
[1:50:45] is 265 there is not much difference in
this entire line in how it is landscaped
[1:50:51] that is from the google earth data which
we believe is mostly very one percent
[1:50:56] up to one percent it is accurate okay
so the argument of that pod cannot be
[1:51:01] moved anywhere is not technical at all
it is purely commercial how much
[1:51:07] building that they wanted to build
that's the argument i'm trying to make
[1:51:11] here
go to number three
[1:51:15] so
so i i just so i had another slide here
[1:51:19] it's actually says 257 but it is that
point is little bit but it's 200 i give
[1:51:24] a little bit more to developer this is
262
[1:51:29] right under the swale and the swale is a
20-foot swale which is in under our
[1:51:34] property the rosemont home owner south
of station property and earlier the
[1:51:38] developer perspective they are actually
down pour all the water into our soil
[1:51:42] which is already a big problem which i
already mentioned with the several devil
[1:51:46] field
stop department already
[1:51:50] so
so
[1:51:53] so
and look at
[1:51:55] look at and i just wanted to make up
use this slide to talk about something
[1:51:59] else so talking about other neighbors if
you look at
[1:52:03] all of these
the this is a condominium complex next
[1:52:07] to us
this that's the uh west border that's
[1:52:11] the
that's the south border everywhere it is
[1:52:14] a 12 foot bomb a 13 foot burn okay and
with a tree line
[1:52:21] just
[1:52:23] 12 foot there is nowhere there is a pond
if the pond is placed it's right in the
[1:52:28] middle of their property line it's right
in the middle of the property line this
[1:52:32] is right these are the homes
but there is a street and no property
[1:52:37] line these are the condominiums this is
a single family a big tree line with a
[1:52:41] burma
but there is
[1:52:44] so the proposal of that pond is not
gonna work for us
[1:52:47] okay please next slide
number four
[1:52:52] so earlier one of these days i have
taken a picture from a tallest wheel
[1:52:56] road driving on my travel spill road
this is right on the tylersville road
[1:53:00] okay we know that is the highest spot
and actually the highest spot is
[1:53:05] somewhere there but this is little bit
one foot one meter down if you from a
[1:53:09] tallest wall it goes higher and then it
goes down slowly from here if if i could
[1:53:15] sorry please
keep it there keep it there that's fine
[1:53:19] uh from here i can see see the if if i'm
standing here my vehicle facing north
[1:53:25] where those are the windows on the
second floor you can see that
[1:53:29] because i couldn't go into there without
trespassing their property so i took it
[1:53:33] from the street so the light is it's a
lot of light pollution
[1:53:38] so
the builder has no concern about it
[1:53:41] looks like he was talking about
something something screening but
[1:53:45] it will not provide anything for those
families it's a it's a 500 vehicle
[1:53:50] traffic not 400 vehicle traffic because
of the future
[1:53:54] businesses that's going to come there
[1:53:59] yeah
so i would like other opportunity to
[1:54:02] utilize here
so this is the very very building the
[1:54:06] building we are sitting here okay
so
[1:54:09] see this is where we are right now
this is where we are
[1:54:14] this is the this is the i think this
building was built later on
[1:54:17] after this this single family home
this is that this is a mound of 12 feet
[1:54:24] or something
look at the tree line
[1:54:27] yes tree line takes long time to build
but
[1:54:30] they have used 70 foot plus another 20
foot or something 20 25 foot and it's a
[1:54:35] big tree line there is no pond nothing
here if the pond were to build build
[1:54:40] somewhere else so this is the kind of
view we like if there is a light
[1:54:44] it will never pass through this
that is a screen that we will have
[1:54:56] so yeah earlier today
earlier today
[1:55:00] that i think we were playing with my son
was playing with it it's not to scale
[1:55:04] but this is this is our uh
this is our backyard sitting on our deck
[1:55:10] see the light coming in that's the view
we have
[1:55:14] would you want me to have that kind of a
view 24 hours in a day the lights
[1:55:19] headlights coming in this is building
one this is only six foot mount this
[1:55:23] tree will take up to 10 years 20 years
to grow to block that
[1:55:28] so after 20 years i am going to face
this light 24 hours a day
[1:55:32] that's not that's not fair that's not i
signed in so i'm going back to my single
[1:55:37] family argument the single family we
signed up this home after checking with
[1:55:41] haifa deerfield township and we
purchased this land
[1:55:44] hoping that one day this something will
come and that something will be single
[1:55:48] family home and they will have kids so
all 360 side degrees of my home there
[1:55:52] will be single family families living
kids living
[1:55:56] but here the developer is doing a a plan
which is uh
[1:56:01] empty nesters and young families
probably less kids according to this
[1:56:05] statistic they'll be only having 0.2 per
home or something like
[1:56:10] 20
so we are already missing out something
[1:56:14] right so that is something that we are
trying to give to the developer we
[1:56:17] worked with him he worked with us
we met them we met him many times
[1:56:22] not me personally but our hr members and
other people met them personally spoke
[1:56:26] about this very issue me and my wife
spoke to mr silverman right in this bill
[1:56:31] in this room after the end of the
previous meeting and we talked to talk
[1:56:35] to him about this issue so this is the
issue i mean i you could physically see
[1:56:39] this what's what's the issue there right
there
[1:56:43] so this is this plan as is it's not
going to work
[1:56:48] the density had to be reduced the
building had to go away that's what my
[1:56:51] request is so that everyone is
it will work for everyone and uh
[1:56:57] yeah my my greatest hope is to get a
feel family but something had to come
[1:57:02] there and after all this we are tired we
cannot come like 20 times uh every year
[1:57:08] for these kind of meetings we don't have
time we have families to raise so
[1:57:12] so we would like to
work with them and then that is that is
[1:57:16] the option like
actually this the light if you see it
[1:57:21] anywhere if the mound is to build the
mound height of the entire plot this
[1:57:27] this is where it need to be
higher like 12 feet 13 feet plus a six
[1:57:31] foot wall plus big trees this is where
it is required more
[1:57:36] if you if you if you look at the
statistics and the data that we i i just
[1:57:40] showed
and the the issue the one more issue i
[1:57:44] would like to bring actually i've shown
a video
[1:57:47] now we have heard from bayern i think
from bayer and decker
[1:57:53] sorry if i get the wrong name wrong so
the water the content of the water where
[1:57:57] it's gonna come it's gonna come into the
soil that we made we're hardly trying to
[1:58:01] maintain this is this is a difficult job
actually i would like to play that video
[1:58:05] if that is possible
uh
[1:58:08] yeah so yeah that's an old video
[1:58:14] yeah let's put it
[1:58:27] yeah so that's the water that's one of
those
[1:58:30] someday this this kind of a water is
going and it's very hard for us to
[1:58:34] manage and i cannot imagine another 7 to
10 acres of water will come and join
[1:58:40] somewhere here and that i our homeowners
all of us have to maintain this water
[1:58:46] there is lot of erosion happening
there's a lot of um um
[1:58:51] and like
insects and everything is growing
[1:58:53] because i i've actually personally paid
money to repair it many times but
[1:58:59] nothing will uh stay because the force
of the water is so heavy that
[1:59:04] i have given up now i'm i need help from
county or deerfield township to take
[1:59:08] care of that issue because
that's that's not possible
[1:59:12] and now adding another seven liters of
water and it's going to come very fast
[1:59:17] that's that's not going that's the
problem will be increased even more
[1:59:21] and i will give my wife to say uh add on
to what you said thank you
[1:59:26] hey ma'am if you just give your name and
confirm the fact that you've been sworn
[1:59:29] in
[1:59:39] yeah my name is malawi panyala
6539 glenstone way
[1:59:44] and
everything that my husband has said and
[1:59:48] raj said and i think other homeowners
are going to speak about that
[1:59:53] but
this is like the full image that we see
[1:59:57] right expanding what my husband was
trying in terms of light pollution but
[2:00:02] the
variability of how that mound would look
[2:00:06] from our backyards right
the light the the the building one
[2:00:11] apartment complex
um you know we did we weren't we're not
[2:00:16] as technologically
savvy
[2:00:19] to do all this cool imagery but
a pond there right
[2:00:25] and then all of that variation that we
have to see every single day
[2:00:30] and i want to show this
our kids
[2:00:36] [Music]
[2:00:50] letters to the government
to listen to them
[2:00:59] you're doing fine
so
[2:01:02] you know outside of all the
technical
[2:01:06] things that my husband and everybody
here is talking about think about all
[2:01:11] our kids what they're losing
with not having other kids to play with
[2:01:17] on the other side that they were hoping
to have
[2:01:20] and you know there is this big huge
construction over there you know however
[2:01:25] long that's going to take right uh we're
being promised some kind of tree line
[2:01:30] which
you know i have never seen like a 20
[2:01:34] foot tree planted anywhere as a new
development those are typically three to
[2:01:38] five feet and i would like to ask like
how many years should i wait to have
[2:01:43] some kind of privacy in my backyard that
i have today that i'm gonna lose so
[2:01:48] these people can make more money off of
this property
[2:01:52] so it makes it a very sad miserable
place for us to live
[2:01:58] and that's all i want to say
thank you so
[2:02:03] uh sorry for that i just want to add one
more thing the rental property and
[2:02:06] everything was mentioned earlier by
silverman and their
[2:02:10] supporters of this group are they from
their group so i have another
[2:02:14] research done by university of colorado
it says the rental within one five mile
[2:02:19] of sold home and negative have a
negative impact on the price of the
[2:02:23] existing home however they said the
value of the homes about one mile down
[2:02:29] will increase
but we our property rosemont is within
[2:02:33] half mile or within one by fourth mile
so that means it's directly
[2:02:38] reducing the value of our home
where they are making money
[2:02:42] who's benefiting it
so i would like to have you um providing
[2:02:46] this small accept that
method from the internet thank you yeah
[2:02:51] and then if you look at the document
like some pictures earlier um
[2:02:57] that
[2:02:59] it's actually
[2:03:04] so this one
if you if we leave this uh
[2:03:09] without not much of the bomb we now we
establish this this is very high right
[2:03:14] we we know a person here this is about a
peak of a high height a person at the
[2:03:18] swimming pool person in this room person
at a second floor standing on this
[2:03:22] balcony
have a direct view of what's happening
[2:03:25] in my back here
so there's no privacy everywhere they
[2:03:29] can see they can see people here people
people from here can see it because
[2:03:33] there is no burn or anything there is no
privacy
[2:03:36] so
if
[2:03:39] and we don't know we don't know how they
are mean they never interact with us
[2:03:42] they are not single family owners we all
come from uh rental background many
[2:03:46] years we saved our money we purchased
home
[2:03:49] uh in a nice neighborhood thinking this
would be but that's not good that looks
[2:03:53] like that may or may not happen i don't
know but it's all in your hand um
[2:03:59] respected trustees so
so i want to mention that as well so
[2:04:04] this this prop this having this is
definitely ruin privacy and the lighting
[2:04:09] and everything and our sleep in the
night
[2:04:11] with the light with the lights yeah
thank you thank you
[2:04:16] sorry there was one clarification to
make my life
[2:04:29] my my son who is a high schooler
he made those images dress and he had to
[2:04:35] do school homework
but he's watching on the live stream and
[2:04:40] he wanted to correct something my
husband said that the image was not the
[2:04:44] skill
and there is a video to show how
[2:04:48] they measured it and that that six foot
wall and the view that we see from our
[2:04:53] deck is absolutely too scale
and he wanted me to tell that
[2:04:58] he just texted me to clarify that for
all of you
[2:05:02] thank you and there is a video we can
provide less how we measure it thank you
[2:05:07] thank you
[2:05:18] all right next up i've got um regender
cinderella
[2:05:26] my preemptive apologies for any
mispronunciation i know you got it
[2:05:41] i just like to let you guys know we've
got the most advanced purifiers in the
[2:05:45] world in this room you see them on the
walls so if you want to take your mask
[2:05:49] off and take a break or whatever this
hair is purified to 99 percent something
[2:05:53] kills everything
you couldn't get sick in here if you
[2:05:56] lift the ground don't lick the ground
and we're not right i just wanted to
[2:06:09] glenn stoneway
i've been sworn in
[2:06:12] i've been a resident of david township
for the last 22 years
[2:06:16] i'm sorry that's all right
thank you sir
[2:06:19] yeah i've been resident of deerfield
township for the last 22 years
[2:06:23] i take pride in staying deerfield
township
[2:06:26] and
i agree with all my neighbors i mean
[2:06:30] this plan you cannot approve
please don't put your names to this up
[2:06:34] this plan don't let's not leave this to
this plan to our kids and grandkids
[2:06:40] you know if i have to give you an
example of any zoning board
[2:06:43] modifications i don't have to give
anything else our own deerfield township
[2:06:48] stood up to walmart and the team of
lawyers
[2:06:51] they came up with every excuse when they
were building the walmart but you guys
[2:06:56] stood
that's why i'm so grateful for you guys
[2:06:59] you guys too stood against walmart and
the lawyers now when we drive on wilkins
[2:07:04] boulevard thanks to your efforts
the residents of long co
[2:07:08] don't see anything of walmart from this
side there's a huge wall and the
[2:07:13] boundary was moved away from wilkins
boulevard and whenever i drive there i
[2:07:18] say thanks to dear friends that's why
time and time again when i came here i
[2:07:23] always thank you guys you have done it
and again now if you approve this plan
[2:07:29] when anybody drives on rhinestone way
this has like to look to think about it
[2:07:33] walmart you build whole wall
this will be like half off
[2:07:38] half side of the residence will have
privacy
[2:07:42] protection from light sound and all
kinds of privacy issues
[2:07:46] either have will not
think about it
[2:07:49] and this will stay forever and your name
will be attached to this one please
[2:07:55] let's not do this let's not approve this
i don't because and our neighbors have
[2:07:59] already spoken about all this i don't
want to
[2:08:02] stress more and the on this one as
shaker mentioned
[2:08:07] there's only one entrance to this
development that is from tylersville and
[2:08:11] the lights are coming straight to these
three buildings
[2:08:14] and the six-fit
boundary will not fix it in fact if
[2:08:19] anybody will have more privacy that
should be these buildings the mount
[2:08:23] should be higher on this side of the
wall on this fire this side of the
[2:08:26] development not the other side
and so therefore please do not approve
[2:08:31] this plan
and that's all i have to say thank you
[2:08:34] very much
[2:08:37] next person's bill turner
[2:08:53] hello my name is bill turner i live at
675 park avenue
[2:08:58] i've been sworn in
[2:09:02] i am building inspection engineers
i'm a licensed engineer in ohio and
[2:09:07] kentucky
and my
[2:09:09] experience is
building engineering
[2:09:13] i work on sites i work on buildings
and the rosemont folks have asked me to
[2:09:18] come and
look at their situation
[2:09:21] and see if maybe there are any options
you've heard a lot of
[2:09:26] uh
stories about how this is probably not
[2:09:30] going to work but let's look at how
maybe it can work if we make some
[2:09:34] changes
the folks from baron becker have talked
[2:09:39] about the ponds
okay
[2:09:42] and because baron becker is involved
this is an engineered pond
[2:09:46] okay this isn't somebody out in
brown county getting a dozer out digging
[2:09:52] a hole in the backyard and calling it a
pond
[2:09:56] this is an engineered pond it has a
specific shape it has a specific size it
[2:10:01] has a specific
depth
[2:10:04] right and because of that
i want to walk up to the picture here a
[2:10:08] little bit
[2:10:22] i want to look at this
area here
[2:10:25] okay and what's left thicker now
[2:10:35] oh thank you
those things hit the red button okay
[2:10:40] okay
[2:10:46] there it is now this
this pond right here
[2:10:50] okay is a third of an acre in size
because there's probably some lots in
[2:10:55] deerfield township that aren't much
bigger than that
[2:10:59] or even that size
so what that is is a big body of water
[2:11:04] okay that could be moved to a safer
place
[2:11:07] the concept of continuing this boundary
all the way across
[2:11:14] is very important
i think we heard mr silverman say a
[2:11:19] little earlier
that the number of kids
[2:11:23] in the neighborhood
is over three times what they are
[2:11:27] in an apartment complex
all right
[2:11:31] so i want to kind of think about that a
minute as i leave
[2:11:35] because all those
neighborhoods don't have fences back
[2:11:39] there
okay they have children that play out
[2:11:42] there
right and now you're building this big
[2:11:46] pond
right next to where everybody plays
[2:11:50] and i just want to think about what is
the risk
[2:11:53] of one child
[2:12:04] next up is jeffrey wu
[2:12:11] oh jeffrey
maybe i can call names again at the end
[2:12:15] or maybe it was here last time but not
this but
[2:12:17] we'll go to the next name then so we've
got
[2:12:20] daru barely
[2:12:29] [Music]
[2:12:41] hello everyone i am drew borelli i am a
sixth grader at
[2:12:46] mi
thank you for your time i
[2:12:51] really do not approve of this because me
and my friends we play a lot in our
[2:12:56] backyards
exactly where we play is where the pawn
[2:13:00] is going to be built
now when we have the pawn it's going to
[2:13:03] be very unsafe for us to play
so we won't i have anything to do and
[2:13:08] it's going to be extremely unsafe
thank you
[2:13:12] mr verily were you sworn
know in everything you just said true
[2:13:17] yes good enough
[2:13:21] thanks for coming
uh we'll go to the next i have robbie
[2:13:25] toptop
[2:13:42] i'm ravi tata i already sworn in
uh i live in 65 55 glenn stoneman mason
[2:13:49] ryo45040
[2:13:52] uh i strongly object
because we have some serious concerns on
[2:13:58] the proposed plan
uh as we are directly impacted one of
[2:14:01] the families directly impacted
i stayed right besides that retention
[2:14:07] point
so
[2:14:09] we are that impacted
so i have
[2:14:13] to tell like two major concerns
one is a retention pond
[2:14:19] because of
health and safety reasons
[2:14:23] because retention pond
obviously
[2:14:27] you'll have a lot of
insects mosquitoes which comes along
[2:14:31] with that and which is which is there
right at the edge of my backyard so that
[2:14:36] is one concern and other thing is like
the privacy so as you see this road
[2:14:42] and building one and building three
they have a direct view and there is no
[2:14:46] absolutely no screen
uh towards our backyard
[2:14:50] so
that is the another major concern i have
[2:14:56] i have two sons who plays soccer
uh most of the times they practice at
[2:15:01] the backyard along with other
neighboring kids having a retention pond
[2:15:06] their
we have that safety concerns as i uh
[2:15:10] already mentioned
uh and also
[2:15:14] uh the privacy like
the building three and building one so
[2:15:18] even though there is a burn across the
other side but where it is exactly
[2:15:21] needed right when you see this road
the traffic coming there
[2:15:26] that is the way actually you need to
have
[2:15:30] if you if you need to have any screening
that's where it should be there
[2:15:34] but as you can see there is no springing
there
[2:15:36] and that is
the concern what i have
[2:15:39] so basically we are compromised on our
privacy
[2:15:43] and health and safety issues because of
retention pond
[2:15:47] so that's all the things i wanted to say
and i agree with my neighbors
[2:15:51] that to keep it consistent the berm
should be extended all the way across
[2:15:55] if not
this plant should be rejected thank you
[2:16:01] all right i'm gonna struggle here
i think it's penmanship issues though
[2:16:06] but um maybe
[Music]
[2:16:10] palm trees yeah
[2:16:27] hello everyone my name
[2:16:30] five one five grand is
at means foreign
[2:16:33] i've spoken several certain times before
and the board of uh the previous coming
[2:16:39] to equal where they were they struck me
off saying that traffic isn't their
[2:16:43] concern and i have to deal with butler
and warren counties but that has that
[2:16:47] has been my concern all the way because
i'm a working mom and in the mornings we
[2:16:51] already have four traffic lights in 0.9
months and we are introducing almost 290
[2:16:58] some apartments
which will i think approximately
[2:17:01] increase the number of cars to at least
500 because every household is two cars
[2:17:06] at least um that's that has been my
concern i know there have been some
[2:17:11] traffic studies that mr silverman has
provided
[2:17:14] but they've been only looking at
taylor's law
[2:17:17] with the roundabout we already have
so much of traffic on glenstone bay and
[2:17:23] with covet i don't know how valid this
traffic stories are honestly um and
[2:17:27] nobody is actually looking at um
sunny drive and glenstone for any of the
[2:17:32] traffic studies so that's like the sad
point
[2:17:34] um one other thing that i was really
really worried about is definitely the
[2:17:39] pond there um
i'm not hit but i want everybody to be
[2:17:46] the same way i am especially in one
glenstone way where everybody is as safe
[2:17:51] because my kids do run with the pond um
so
[2:17:54] please extend the bill
all the way through that's all we are
[2:17:59] asking for and please try to reduce the
density all working moms will definitely
[2:18:04] definitely correlate with me and they
feel the pain in the morning i don't
[2:18:09] know more about the dads but moms do
because it's it's a joke in the morning
[2:18:14] every day and 0.9 miles four traffic
lights and i actually presented several
[2:18:19] studies as to how the burn to
bumper-to-bumper traffic actually
[2:18:24] increases accidents and i actually
propose i actually showed the studies
[2:18:29] where i think the accidents went up like
at least
[2:18:33] 23 percent if not more
in since 2016 since when people have
[2:18:39] started dwelling more and more into our
communities
[2:18:44] so please consider both of them please
think about the density and how many
[2:18:49] people you're introducing
say that empty nesters um in fact when i
[2:18:54] when i said that there were at least 500
cars i was cut shot saying oh no they
[2:18:59] walk
and i'm like seriously there's no
[2:19:03] companies
in a vicinity of 0.6 months
[2:19:08] around that dwelling so you expect
everybody to jog or walk to work in the
[2:19:12] mornings and they're not driving and so
they're not increasing the traffic
[2:19:16] because that's the answer i got
so please think about it and please
[2:19:20] please extend the boom thank you
thank you
[2:19:24] the next person is kashore kalikiri
[2:19:47] mess in ohio
[2:19:50] it feels like the same thing we are
saying over and over again um
[2:19:54] the reason we are doing that is because
with the last meeting we had
[2:19:58] um they kind of got confused the
builders that is that we were all over
[2:20:02] the place
so
[2:20:04] we wanna i wanna say again that
i reject this proposal without any
[2:20:09] modifications as is i won't reject
um
[2:20:13] they have been really hell bent on um
that
[2:20:18] the retention pond there and one of the
main reasons is
[2:20:22] because of what the one of their own
said
[2:20:25] without sacrificing the major portion of
the plan
[2:20:29] we cannot move the retention point and
that's the reason they don't want to
[2:20:33] admit it maybe it was slip of tongue
that
[2:20:36] the the pawn specialist spoke that's in
his own words all we are asking for is
[2:20:42] more modern detergent which means um at
the cost of sacrificing building one
[2:20:47] which they don't want to and i think
my friends have already said given
[2:20:51] enough examples and slides that i don't
want to get into that
[2:20:54] um the other part is um in the last
seven years um
[2:20:59] in western one investigation one in uh
mason two toddlers have died
[2:21:05] in the neighborhood uh swimming pools or
the ponds um not swimming pools actually
[2:21:10] i correct honestly uncorrected retention
ponds two of them died one just a mile
[2:21:14] and a half
during kobe time uh up on snyder road
[2:21:19] so that happened so i and i have a six
year old
[2:21:22] right at that age prime and
i've been friends with those panialas
[2:21:26] and the other people and that's where my
son runs every every evening can i go
[2:21:30] there and play can i go there and play
and i always drop him off and come back
[2:21:34] and pick him up i can't do that anymore
my wife would kill me that means all of
[2:21:38] my evenings are sacrificed you know i
myself am a part-time realtor and one of
[2:21:42] the other things they said oh my god i
can't find the place
[2:21:46] kishore call me
513-666-1259 i will find a place for you
[2:21:50] and i will do a damn good job thank you
sir were you sworn into yes i was thank
[2:21:56] you
[2:22:01] delete burelli
[2:22:18] my name is uh deliberately 6587
glenstone way mason ohio four five zero
[2:22:24] four zero and that makes one
so um
[2:22:29] first you know it's been a long hearing
and uh i thank you all for your patience
[2:22:33] particularly the staff
and
[2:22:37] when i
[2:22:40] was i lived in philadelphia
and i
[2:22:43] was looking to live where i could live
in the country
[2:22:46] okay that's not like philadelphia
i interviewed i'm i'm a physician
[2:22:52] uh god's grace i have the ability to
find a job where i want
[2:22:57] i went out looking all across the
country and then i said you know what
[2:23:01] i'm going to find columbia misery which
is in
[2:23:06] a small town we lived there and then we
thought maybe it's too small
[2:23:10] so it kind of like wanted us a field
that's not
[2:23:14] like
a city like a big city but something
[2:23:17] that where i can raise my kids
[2:23:21] driving on believe me
we were literally driving all the way to
[2:23:26] florida to for to to
look at a practice
[2:23:31] i stopped by here
at the exit
[2:23:34] and then we researched the place looking
then we found out we saw we have some
[2:23:38] friends here
wow
[2:23:40] and then that made us extend the stay we
liked the place after interviewing then
[2:23:45] i said you know what
maybe this is the place
[2:23:48] when i chose
to live in this area i did not have a
[2:23:52] job
i did not have a job
[2:23:55] i thought you know what i'm going to
find a job if not then i'm going to
[2:23:59] start a practice
what attracted me
[2:24:03] was the community
what attracted me is the kid-friendly
[2:24:08] nature what attracted me is when i was
driving and it said mason the seventh
[2:24:13] best place to live
and the reasons behind being
[2:24:17] the kids what comes around the kids
i have two boys
[2:24:23] 10 and 14.
this evening
[2:24:28] i've heard excellent data presented
today
[2:24:32] selling
apartment homes
[2:24:35] unfortunately there is no one here to
speak for
[2:24:39] who wants single family homes
we all live yes we live we start an
[2:24:45] apartment that is what we grow into but
we come and live in single family homes
[2:24:50] that is where children you're looking at
the data i'm seeing data being presented
[2:24:55] let's reduce the number of kids
[2:24:59] where are we heading what direction are
we heading
[2:25:03] he has shown a data that clearly says
that if you have single family homes you
[2:25:07] have more kids
and then if you have homes like this you
[2:25:11] can have we are not here to reduce the
number of kids in the community
[2:25:16] we have built up a great school system
that this county has that this city has
[2:25:21] to make more children that ability to
live here to become more productive in
[2:25:26] their life
we want to be able to do that and that
[2:25:29] kind of like really really hurt me
tonight that there is data being
[2:25:32] presented that let's not have more
children
[2:25:38] it really
hurts the basic roots of why we are
[2:25:42] trying to create communities it's not
all about money
[2:25:47] and tonight
last time i presented a slide he showed
[2:25:51] excellent data as to how this place
could be a great multi-family
[2:25:57] neighborhood
honestly you know what we don't need
[2:26:01] that data we can just walk through
drive through the city most of the
[2:26:05] apartments are 80 90 full
okay
[2:26:09] that data is enough
to say that yes we need something
[2:26:14] but
not to convert a single family home into
[2:26:17] something like this
you
[2:26:22] for some reason somehow somewhere came
up with this illusion saying that this
[2:26:26] land is not suitable for single family
homes
[2:26:30] i
presented why
[2:26:33] you drive east you drive west on
tylersville there is homes there is
[2:26:37] single family homes that back onto
tylersville there is people living on
[2:26:41] tylersville so find another reason as to
why we should change the zoning
[2:26:46] not to say that this is not suitable for
single family homes let's find another
[2:26:50] reason let's find another reason that
makes it really worthwhile to consider
[2:26:55] but not that reason
and if you drive either way on these
[2:26:59] homes
the prices are no less
[2:27:02] the price of these homes are great
they have not reduced in value they are
[2:27:08] not reduced it's not you know what
something
[2:27:11] what does it what makes it unsafe
one of the apartment communities that
[2:27:16] this developer built the grand stone
i can i could take the picture from his
[2:27:22] own presentation
the living room of that apartment is
[2:27:25] literally within 15 feet from the
wilkins boulevard
[2:27:30] if if a car drives in rams into their
into the apartment it will go straight
[2:27:37] into their living room
so let's find another reason as to why
[2:27:42] this area is not suitable for single
family i mean why why you why we want to
[2:27:47] change it
and i looked at this the what what comes
[2:27:52] up what they wanted to do with this one
and i mentioned the word greed
[2:27:58] and everyone has the right to enjoy
their property
[2:28:02] what you get for the property
comes with what that property can do
[2:28:08] so time to time we see people want to
change you know i could have a land in
[2:28:13] the middle of nowhere or what but i
wanted to get the most use possible so
[2:28:17] it gets the most economic value
it doesn't necessarily mean that that is
[2:28:22] good for the community or it is good for
the neighbors around and that is where
[2:28:28] you guys
have the ability to judge
[2:28:31] trying to balance what this community
what this development brings to the
[2:28:36] neighborhood
[2:28:39] townships are in existence for a reason
and that is to create keep a character
[2:28:45] not just by changing the shape of the
building i you know i call this like a
[2:28:50] farmhouse architecture farmhouse has a
lot more you know we don't want farm
[2:28:54] house but at the same time we don't want
apartments to look at look like farmers
[2:28:58] and say that this is hormones
so let's go back to trying to address
[2:29:05] some of the very specific questions that
come
[2:29:09] with regards to
this particular development
[2:29:14] there's a lot of data that's been
presented on the previous
[2:29:19] and the zoning committee that heard this
obviously
[2:29:26] data is something that is
i'm a physician i look at data every day
[2:29:32] when some company comes and says
i want to sell this drug i tend to think
[2:29:37] critically as to what kind of like i
don't just look at the conclusion i look
[2:29:42] into the data what kind of patients they
chose how did they characterize the
[2:29:46] patients how did they differentiate the
patients
[2:29:49] because conclusion is always what
the company wants if i read the
[2:29:55] conclusion it biases me i look at the
data and i start to criticize the data
[2:30:01] okay
so
[2:30:03] people presented the data on how it will
influence traffic and and how it can
[2:30:07] influence the uh the price values and
exactly here's what is the data that you
[2:30:13] know he presented
one of the paper was from 2005.
[2:30:18] you know how many things have happened
in the world since 2005.
[2:30:22] one of the other papers that he
presented on crime was from 1996
[2:30:26] you know how the demographics and
everything have changed now i'm not
[2:30:30] saying i'm not saying the facts of but
what i'm saying is you pick the paper
[2:30:34] you pick the data that you like and try
to present and make conclusions out of
[2:30:38] it and it is clearly i think we need
someone who will listen
[2:30:43] who will think to the depth of what we
are thinking through
[2:30:48] and
this is the time
[2:30:51] and if we go on
[2:30:54] back in 2015
they presented this
[2:31:00] of doing something over there
it was a long hearing
[2:31:05] and if you look at that
they said
[2:31:09] four things would make this not worth
one
[2:31:13] the intensity of the development
two they mentioned the retention pawn
[2:31:18] three they mentioned the easements
three of those
[2:31:23] and then
he came up with the plan originally i'm
[2:31:26] thinking what is this that someone is
trying to buy this land and i looked at
[2:31:32] the price
and it's like
[2:31:34] 4 million 4.2 million of course you know
if if someone could pay me like 250 200
[2:31:41] dollars for an acre that's a great price
but it comes with the cost it comes with
[2:31:45] changing something it comes with asking
for something from the community okay
[2:31:49] and that's exactly what's happening here
and that's exactly why
[2:31:52] this land has been deemed not suitable
for single family because i'll tell you
[2:31:57] what if you can put single families on
this one and they will sell in
[2:32:02] in a month there are developers who
walked into this saying that they will
[2:32:06] build single family homes
but you know what was it no one can
[2:32:10] build a single family home at 250 000
dollars an acre and make money on it so
[2:32:15] it's a it's a ridiculous price that
you're asking but then you're trying to
[2:32:19] get that price by trying to find someone
like him who will come up bully us
[2:32:23] everybody
and try to get what they want you know
[2:32:27] why i call it bully because back in 15
for the very same reasons the board has
[2:32:33] rejected this plan
meaning it's not apartments but they
[2:32:37] talked about intensity they talked about
the easement on the back they talked
[2:32:40] about the pond and then they said
anyone doing this should first try to
[2:32:45] involve
the neighborhood community and try to
[2:32:48] come up with a plan
and at some point
[2:32:52] in 2015
without involvement of the neighborhood
[2:32:56] plan this land
was changed to mixed use
[2:33:02] what kind of democracy are we talking
about
[2:33:05] if we didn't have an issue before that
said
[2:33:08] please do this when the board of
trustees have said this is a specific
[2:33:12] concern do this in spite of that
that did not happen
[2:33:17] behind the doors
in the closed doors they made a change
[2:33:20] to this neighborhood and called it this
will be mixed use
[2:33:25] and here we are
that there is a plan in our in front of
[2:33:29] us that's exactly the same with the same
concerns like it was before
[2:33:36] i said when i met him once i told him
you know what
[2:33:40] there are you know we really want to
make this work
[2:33:43] there are some technical issues that we
probably won't agree with but you know
[2:33:48] what we are just residents over there
there are some concerns that i have as a
[2:33:53] citizen of the township and there are
some concerns that i have as a
[2:33:56] neighborhood
as a citizen
[2:33:59] i'm going to leave that to you
i'm going to because you guys have i
[2:34:03] would trust that you have the best
vision for the township
[2:34:07] i would trust that you would have
the ability to think critically to
[2:34:12] balance between what the developer wants
what the owner wants and what we can
[2:34:17] give them
i'll leave that to you
[2:34:19] but my idea
of a mixed unit development
[2:34:23] is something like this
mixed unit developments came up with the
[2:34:28] idea most municipalities have started
using mixed unit developments in the
[2:34:31] last 10 years
and then if they came up with something
[2:34:35] like that as you all know to create some
kind of like a flexibility in the plan
[2:34:39] that you could do that something comes
up in the neighborhood that gives to the
[2:34:43] community that takes from the community
it could be used to revitalize some
[2:34:48] communities where
maybe something could be done better to
[2:34:53] improve the lives of people around it
not just for people within that and that
[2:34:58] is the reason why mixed-use communities
came up
[2:35:01] it also came up with the idea to let's
improve more walkability to amenities
[2:35:08] including work
where is a word here that someone can go
[2:35:13] to walk without a car
do you feel one we agree you come on
[2:35:18] this side you walk
you have so many restaurants there
[2:35:23] typically
what you have and my our our
[2:35:26] neighborhood already walks there's a
yogurt place there's a drug mod
[2:35:30] and that's it
there's a couple restaurants
[2:35:33] that's not going to be a good reason to
say that this is a mixed unit never good
[2:35:39] leave alone the fact that what does this
give to the community around it i mean
[2:35:42] you better put we don't even know what's
coming up there
[2:35:46] in those three or three commercial
spaces
[2:35:48] so i'm going to leave that to
your expertise to decide on all of that
[2:35:54] but i'm going to focus on the specifics
that concern to me as a resident of that
[2:35:59] neighborhood
okay
[2:36:03] that is
density
[2:36:06] density and density
that is the core problem of why they are
[2:36:12] not able to move that pawn why they are
not able to increase that burn and it is
[2:36:16] all around density
if this vent project went and said hey
[2:36:21] you know what
i want this as a multi-family
[2:36:24] development or eight done we would all
be fine eight units per acre done
[2:36:30] in the disguise of a pud they want to
get more units out of it
[2:36:35] how is this how is this fair that in in
right into your face they are trying to
[2:36:40] kind of like come in a disguise cheat
and say that this is what it is
[2:36:45] please please don't let this happen
okay and
[2:36:49] the numbers that are presented i've i've
uh i let another speaker
[2:36:54] speak for that
who's done extensive research on the
[2:36:58] number of units in each of these
developments across the townfield town
[2:37:03] across the deerfield township
and
[2:37:06] how this relates to that this is an
extremely more dense and
[2:37:11] i mean i'm just curious as to the three
most this will be the third most dense
[2:37:16] and all of those three will come from
the same developer no other developer
[2:37:20] was able to get some such a density this
is the same developer who will get the
[2:37:24] third most density
[2:37:29] why and how
how is that possible
[2:37:32] okay and
going to the specifics
[2:37:37] going to the specifics of the plan
okay
[2:37:40] the pond
is a concern the pond is a concern to
[2:37:44] say that we can't move the pawn and this
is what i even this even the zoning mode
[2:37:49] mentioned has this so here's the
conversation
[2:37:53] do we have to have a pawn
okay gentleman came up to speak
[2:37:59] the pond is not a hole we know it's not
a hole please give some respect
[2:38:04] we are talking if the pawn has to be
there
[2:38:07] sight size shape
surface and location has to be decided
[2:38:12] by the engineers
it's not a retention pond is an
[2:38:16] engineered pond that means the engineer
can drive it depending on where it ought
[2:38:20] to be placed
i had a small piece of land that i went
[2:38:24] to mason city
on three acres of kingsmill and i said
[2:38:28] you know what let's do this plan
okay you know how many times we moved
[2:38:32] that pawn uh the retention point on that
on that property
[2:38:38] ultimately duke energy came back and
said no you can't put a pawn right next
[2:38:42] to my okay we moved it again it's the
engineer's challenge it's not impossible
[2:38:47] it's a challenge there are people
putting
[2:38:50] retention points under parking lots
there's not so you have a will to do it
[2:38:55] you have a way to do it
okay
[2:38:58] in this one in this particular we had
two issues one is that burn there and
[2:39:04] then how that burn is not extending onto
the building nine okay
[2:39:09] that gentleman that who bought that home
he bought that home as part of this
[2:39:13] recently he had no idea what was coming
there and you have like big apartments
[2:39:17] sitting there right in front sir
i'm gonna respectfully cut you off
[2:39:22] i i just have one i just have one more
minute okay please
[2:39:27] please this is this is the tenth time we
are coming in here
[2:39:30] i understand please just take one more
minute
[2:39:34] so
the
[2:39:37] that's that's we can move that pawn
anywhere so with all respect to john
[2:39:41] from bearbecker he is well respected he
knows the truth and that's why he said
[2:39:46] yes and
off note i want to mention i had a
[2:39:49] conversation with him and i begged him
i told him
[2:39:54] this could be the major issue if you can
please work on that one i think we are
[2:39:59] just willing to ignore and give up on
anything else
[2:40:03] no sensitivity to the issue came back
with the same proposal same plan
[2:40:10] okay so please
i'm just trying to highlight all the
[2:40:14] discrepancies in this okay but that's
mostly to for you to decide because i
[2:40:19] think there's no better judge than uh
and then knowledge person with regards
[2:40:23] to this than you but that pond
has to move out there is a way
[2:40:29] and we can do it if we want to come up
with ideas we will give ideas but we can
[2:40:33] do it thank you very much
thank you
[2:40:37] all right next up is cerini karen
[2:40:53] um
[2:41:04] i'm sorry other side
[2:41:28] uh
i'll just pull this to the right or
[2:41:32] something
[2:42:01] good evening
my name is srini karanam i live on 6578
[2:42:07] glamstone awareness and ohio i've been
swan and
[2:42:11] but
there are a couple of points that i want
[2:42:14] to highlight
from the staff memo
[2:42:18] probably y'all have seen
the types of staff my mom
[2:42:23] so if you turn to page nine
there is a mention about the density
[2:42:30] and several speakers thought about the
density
[2:42:33] but i want to just highlight
a couple of things
[2:42:39] that doesn't look right the way the
density was calculated
[2:42:44] um the total site area is
17.58 acres
[2:42:50] so out of 17.58
14.7
[2:42:55] is used for the residential of the multi
family and the remaining 2.8 acres for
[2:43:00] the commercial
[2:43:03] and
for the whole development is the
[2:43:06] developer is building 196 units
so that way
[2:43:12] as a layman the way the density i look
at it is
[2:43:15] take the number of units which is 196
and take the accuracy which is 14.7
[2:43:22] then 196 divided by
14.7
[2:43:27] that gives to 13.3
[2:43:31] but in his calculation i think all these
calculations are occurred with the
[2:43:35] developer but for the developer
he took the whole
[2:43:39] 17.5 acres for computing the density
that's the reason he got 11.14
[2:43:47] because he totals 17 acres
but if you take only 40 acres the
[2:43:53] density is 13.3
[2:43:57] so the intensity capital is completely
wrong the way he presented
[2:44:01] is trying to bring down the number so
that it looks good on the paper
[2:44:06] same thing with the net density
so net densities basically take 14.7
[2:44:12] acres
take out 30 percent of the land
[2:44:16] which is 9.56 acres
and then take 196x divided by 9.56
[2:44:24] which comes to 20.5
and whereas this number is 17.15
[2:44:32] so if it's a twenty point one five
twenty point five
[2:44:36] that should trigger automatic denial
for the whole proposal
[2:44:41] because based on the comprehensive plan
the maximum the developer can have is
[2:44:46] only 20
units per acre
[2:44:50] and it can vary from eight to twenty
that's how it says
[2:44:53] but you'll
take the highest number so it can be
[2:44:56] eight it could be twenty but even like
you have been talked about even if you
[2:44:59] take 20 it still is more than 20 it's
20.5
[2:45:03] so as is
the density is really really high
[2:45:12] there is another slide on page
11 and the staff member
[2:45:17] so here there is a comparison
of all the
[2:45:21] developments done in the last
10 years
[2:45:25] they're not totally used
if you look at these numbers
[2:45:30] so if you if we take the first half
they were all done
[2:45:35] probably 70 maybe 10 years ago
we look at the densities
[2:45:40] the first one hundreds
it's a the grass is four and net is five
[2:45:45] point nine nine
next one is six point eight seven for
[2:45:48] eleven point two seven if liquidus
number they're really small they're all
[2:45:52] less than ten
but if you look at the second half
[2:45:57] so and some of these are actually living
so if you look at
[2:46:01] the americas
with the density 31.89
[2:46:06] so comparing assistant living with the
apartments is now is not
[2:46:11] like comparing apples with oranges
it's not a true comparison
[2:46:15] because i still live in saddam if
they're done like a hotel it's just like
[2:46:19] one room
but there
[2:46:22] is said living
with the multi-family document
[2:46:27] and if you look at the next one which is
the grand stone
[2:46:31] he said it's a three-story
building they said
[2:46:35] order is 32 but you should say three
story run is surrounded by commercial
[2:46:40] they don't know how there are no single
company homes about operating against
[2:46:44] the property
there's nothing right next floor
[2:46:48] surround surrounded by commercial
and the next one is the the latitude
[2:46:54] which is actually a four story
[2:46:58] and there are a bunch of registered
living
[2:47:02] and for this proposed development is
11.14 and 17.15
[2:47:07] and it's a two-story
so there are no other two-story
[2:47:12] developments within tirified mason area
with this kind of density
[2:47:17] this will be if it is approved this will
be the highest dense ever
[2:47:22] in the default ownership
[2:47:27] so please please reduce the density is
too high
[2:47:33] and i just i want to point out some
demographics
[2:47:36] uh we all live in mason some of them
live in mexico and deerfield
[2:47:41] and uh
it's a peaceful animation they're so
[2:47:44] intermingled
so we don't even know whether you are
[2:47:47] amazing or different when you are
driving down you aren't measuring your
[2:47:50] individual medicine
but for us for most of the time it looks
[2:47:55] very similar masonry is very similar but
if you look at closely
[2:47:59] they are not
you look at the city of mason
[2:48:03] 17 square miles
it has a population of 30 31
[2:48:08] 39 people
and for the deer field it's a 16 square
[2:48:13] miles
the population of 38
[2:48:17] 217.
if you look at the density
[2:48:22] mason city has
1724
[2:48:26] people per square mile
whereas
[2:48:30] built with township
has 2388
[2:48:37] so deal field is
38.5 almost 40 percent more
[2:48:43] dense than medicine
so when i looked at these numbers it
[2:48:47] didn't make sense to me because medicine
is a city and israel is a township
[2:48:52] being in a township we need to preserve
the small town
[2:49:02] is supposed to be
like a countryside living
[2:49:06] more green spaces
more bigger bigger package that's how it
[2:49:10] should be
but the way
[2:49:13] we are moving we are moving
in the wrong direction so
[2:49:17] why mason city why we are more than than
medicine
[2:49:21] is because
there are more i will show you there's
[2:49:25] another slide
[2:49:28] just by adding but generally if you take
this kind of proposal
[2:49:32] so it's proposing 196 units
and if you take two
[2:49:36] people
uh two persons in an apartment so we're
[2:49:40] adding
392 people just with this development
[2:49:44] alone
so that will make
[2:49:47] deerfield
39.97
[2:49:51] more dense
the meson this this development just
[2:49:55] this alone will add 1.5 percent
to the density
[2:50:01] so we need to cut down the density
so if we cut down the density
[2:50:06] that will solve all the problems we can
achieve the burn
[2:50:11] if you take out the buildings 109
that will take out 20
[2:50:16] for i think each one is 11 years it will
be back at 20 minutes
[2:50:20] then that will bring down the density to
decent levels like 11 i think 11 inch
[2:50:24] per acre if you do the math right
so if you cut off the density if you
[2:50:29] take out building 109
then that will provide enough room
[2:50:34] to accept the bomb all the way
and move the pawn
[2:50:39] to the south of the
after the lot
[2:50:43] and also the same kind of burn
uh along the town bearing
[2:50:49] that should take on all the problems if
you if you can cut out the undead stream
[2:50:56] and the developer has been saying this
about the developer has been saying that
[2:50:59] we cannot move upon technically it has
to be there
[2:51:03] but look at the proposal back in 2014
there was another developer
[2:51:08] came up with a
similar kind of proposal
[2:51:11] see we had a party
it's not in the corner
[2:51:15] it's right in the middle
so
[2:51:19] if it is not possible if the topography
is such a way that it hasn't been the
[2:51:23] corner
how can the other developer could do
[2:51:27] with the pond in the middle of the
middle of that lot
[2:51:32] and even this feminist our engineer
he generally said if the pond can be
[2:51:36] moved anywhere this engineered part is
not a natural pond it's engineered
[2:51:40] you're going to dig it up
while doing this development there's a
[2:51:43] lot of that moving around so you can
just put it anywhere you want
[2:51:47] the only reason they don't want to move
it
[2:51:49] just because they are going to lose the
building
[2:51:52] it's just the economic reason that
nothing's technical nothing engineering
[2:51:55] challenge
is just they don't want to lose the
[2:51:58] building
that's the bottom line
[2:52:03] so this is our request
so please
[2:52:07] extend the bend
continuous all the way across
[2:52:13] nine feet bent plus foot fence minimum
[2:52:17] and the second brings reduce the density
by eliminating buildings one on nine
[2:52:24] so but those two are kind of regulated
if you take a
[2:52:36] all right next person up is
[Music]
[2:52:45] you got it
okay
[2:53:04] yes
[2:53:28] hello um my name is patna khan city i'm
arrested in downhill 6493 gladstone lake
[2:53:35] um
[2:53:38] i just moved maybe like three or four
months ago from cherry group community
[2:53:43] which is one of the best communities to
live in mason
[2:53:46] um and i choose to move towards one
because i know it is a
[2:53:51] one of the best communities to raise my
kids i am online strongly and this
[2:53:56] development is directly impacting my
decision to move for my kids
[2:54:01] um
there are a lot of things that were said
[2:54:04] um by my friends and you know all the
people here but i really want to bring
[2:54:09] your attention to some of the deviations
that this plan has that somehow has been
[2:54:14] overlooked um to approve this by the
zoning committee
[2:54:18] um the first deviation is the mixed-use
density there's so much density numbers
[2:54:24] that 17 density uh du uh per dwelling
units per acre
[2:54:29] it's it's it's probably wrong with the
changes that they made but it's still
[2:54:32] not eight volume units per acreage as
for the um
[2:54:37] zoning resolution document if you see
the b under mixed views uh if you see
[2:54:43] the section b the maximum residential
density is eight volume units for april
[2:54:48] and that has been completely overlooked
i would like you to seriously take into
[2:54:53] that uh consideration please uh the next
one is as for the comprehensive plan
[2:54:59] page 41 existing context it clearly
states that a mixed use characteristic
[2:55:05] of a mixed use is it has to incorporate
landscape buffer between the commercial
[2:55:12] and multi-family residential if that's
what the builder wants to do and it is
[2:55:17] in the writing and
you know it is
[2:55:20] it is the existing context that is the
context of the mixed mixed use
[2:55:24] development and that has been completely
ignored there is no buffering
[2:55:29] within the bud like there is no
buffering that is where it is supposed
[2:55:33] to be um between the
apartments and the commercial as for the
[2:55:38] recommendation of
the comprehensive plan that has been
[2:55:42] completely overlooked
um
[2:55:46] i'll go straight to the commercial
development when it comes to density you
[2:55:50] know although
the planning you know
[2:55:54] even
all the numbers they are taking into
[2:55:57] consideration the whole lot that
includes the commercial area right
[2:56:02] but when it when we are talking about
the parking and all of that you know
[2:56:07] they did address the residential because
we did raise that question last time
[2:56:11] they were short and then they
they did something and they changed the
[2:56:15] plan and they
came to two parking lots as per the
[2:56:19] recommendation by um zoning resolution
but the commercial development it is
[2:56:24] still not at risk i don't know why that
that is not being even talked about but
[2:56:30] if you calculate if i do the math right
this has been
[2:56:33] even presented in the uh
other meetings but you should do the
[2:56:37] math um
with the approved uh uh
[2:56:42] businesses that might come into those um
even mr silverman said it could be a
[2:56:47] restaurant or a healthcare facility
healthcare facility actually needs 300
[2:56:52] parking spaces okay and i was
conservative and i took
[2:56:57] one parking space for
200 square feet of the commercial
[2:57:02] development they are
at 85 provided right now and they are
[2:57:07] short of 35 i am not sure where they
plan to do that and are we going to
[2:57:13] allow uh developments to come in with
such a shortage of parking especially
[2:57:18] when you want people to come into those
commercial facilities when you want
[2:57:23] everything to be wiped there's no
parking where are the people going to go
[2:57:27] nowhere they are not going to come
because they know that the the roads are
[2:57:31] jam-packed there's no parking anywhere
around and i i really don't know why
[2:57:36] this has been just overlooked
conveniently
[2:57:40] uh this is the this is the table that i
used to kind of uh uh get the data uh
[2:57:46] for my um
uh for the previous slide and as i said
[2:57:50] uh from the parking spaces that uh uh
that are uh given in the uh document um
[2:57:58] the average comes out to be two one
parking space for 200
[2:58:02] um square foot
development and
[2:58:06] another one is um
if i see the parking spaces okay this is
[2:58:13] again from um i believe the zooming
resolution document
[2:58:17] 8.0.7 b landscaping screening and the
landscaping eye links in between the
[2:58:23] parking spaces i don't know again this
has been completely overlooked i don't
[2:58:27] see enough landscaping islands uh this
is one of the thing that um dfir
[2:58:33] recommends to keep that um you know even
landscaping and screening is intended to
[2:58:39] soften the appearance of large uh it's
kind of parking areas you can read that
[2:58:43] but
it it is recommending it it wants no
[2:58:47] more than 15 parking spaces shall be
located continuously in a row but if you
[2:58:52] can closely look at the
parking spaces that they design and they
[2:58:56] came up with that's that's completely
overlooked as well um
[2:59:00] we we have a density crunch again you
know my calculation is probably based on
[2:59:05] a previous proposal but it is not eight
it is not a dwelling units for apric it
[2:59:11] is still a free this plan is not at
eight dwelling units per acre still
[2:59:16] approved commercial parking we are short
of 35 still approved landscape buffers
[2:59:21] within uh the pud completely ignored
still approved no um enough
[2:59:29] landscaping in between the parking
spaces still approved i really want you
[2:59:34] to take a closer look at all these
that are actually there in the zoning
[2:59:39] resolution document that's there in the
um comprehensive plan you know if if you
[2:59:45] want uh somebody to build something to
the core values of deerfield they will
[2:59:51] have to follow all of these right that's
that's the intent of the documentation
[2:59:55] that you guys work hard to prepare and
uh
[2:59:58] you know again the
data that they presented as my friend uh
[3:00:03] um delete mentioned and shrini
mentioned um
[3:00:09] it is all based on the data that is you
know 96
[3:00:13] 2005 copied last one and a half year it
brought everything upside down right you
[3:00:19] know there's so much changes people want
single family because they don't want to
[3:00:23] be in closed areas where they there may
be more exposure people are dying to buy
[3:00:28] homes right now in mason single family
homes there's a huge line for people who
[3:00:34] want to buy you know it's like everybody
is working from home they need more
[3:00:38] space they have you know there is a
chance that people kids might be doing
[3:00:42] remote again you know think about if
people
[3:00:45] crammed in in 1200 or 1500 square foot
area no people want space they there is
[3:00:51] a huge market for single family homes so
i did not understand what is the need uh
[3:00:58] you know we cannot compare data from
long back we have to compare what is
[3:01:02] there what is the requirement right now
that's all i have to say i see i
[3:01:08] sincerely request um the trustee poor to
give a serious contribution to the
[3:01:14] deviations that were allowed
for this
[3:01:18] plan
and it was somehow approved uh thank you
[3:01:22] very much
next up is a non-condo
[3:01:46] do you want to map or anything up
just just
[3:02:14] here
[3:02:19] um i live at six five zero england
stoneway i think swarning
[3:02:23] i'm part of the hoa board for rosemont
south and uh i know a lot of our
[3:02:28] neighbors and colleagues have spoken
about different things you know they
[3:02:33] presented a lot of data
but the core of uh
[3:02:38] the issue that we wanted to the hoa
board wanted to present was two items
[3:02:44] one is reduced density you know from the
existing
[3:02:48] net
density of 17.1 to something closer to
[3:02:52] 11 or 10
and the second issue was
[3:02:56] to maintain the consistent uh barrier
you know between the existing single
[3:03:01] family homes and
uh the future development
[3:03:05] and these two items are interrelated you
know when we say reduce the density it
[3:03:10] goes hand in hand you know why are we
worried about density you know is
[3:03:14] because it ties up into our
issue of the burn not being consistent
[3:03:19] okay as a hitchhike
board member
[3:03:22] and representing all the
100 plus families you know that about
[3:03:26] the property
we are very clear and consistent you
[3:03:29] know all we are asking for is two things
reduce the density and
[3:03:35] have a consistent barrier between the
single family homes existing single
[3:03:40] family homes and future development
and mr silverman is a very good
[3:03:45] salesperson and we have seen this in the
zoning board meeting where
[3:03:49] his acquisition manager you know twisted
the things and you know when we were
[3:03:53] very clearly saying that please move the
retention pond you know they were
[3:03:56] consistently saying prediction point is
a must you know we need to have it same
[3:04:00] thing they were trying to do today you
know they were saying i heard mr suman
[3:04:04] silverman say you know there's no
difference between having a nine foot
[3:04:08] berm you know for most of the property
and having a six feet five seconds on
[3:04:13] top of it compared to having a six feet
uh berm and eight feet
[3:04:18] uh privacy fence on top of it right next
to the retention pond so why don't we do
[3:04:24] the same thing you know why don't you
put a 14 feet privacy fence
[3:04:28] why can't we do it it just doesn't make
any sense
[3:04:31] and you know mr silverman say was
showing that his development you know is
[3:04:36] having like 250 feet of buffer between
the um
[3:04:42] concrete structure you know our
buildings and their concrete structures
[3:04:45] and he was showing how lens was only 215
feet
[3:04:49] again they're twisting facts here you
know there is no retention pawn between
[3:04:53] our our close bone south and villains
and same thing again you know they uh
[3:04:58] said about the retention pond um
[Music]
[3:05:01] yeah so those were the things that i
wanted to mention and
[3:05:06] we understand
that
[3:05:08] the trustees you know
you have to make a decision keeping
[3:05:13] the greater good of
uh the township in mind but we also want
[3:05:17] you to make sure that
whatever decision you make should be in
[3:05:22] the best interest of our neighborhood
that is advertising the property and
[3:05:28] please ensure that
the nine feet berm and the six feet
[3:05:33] privacy fence on top of it
goes all the way from
[3:05:37] north west of the property to the south
west of uh
[3:05:43] north east to northwest uh you know the
whole perimeter you know and
[3:05:48] like our other um neighbors have
mentioned if you reduce the density all
[3:05:54] we have to do is get rid of building one
and building nine and that will address
[3:05:59] they burn and
like
[3:06:02] the speaker before me mentioned you know
the future commercial not having enough
[3:06:06] parking spaces you know you cannot you
cannot create land from thin air you
[3:06:10] know tomorrow when they come back to you
and we raise the question of where is
[3:06:14] the parking for commercial where are we
going to get it from
[3:06:17] we can address it today
by reducing the density where he'll have
[3:06:21] more land you know to take care of
future issues
[3:06:23] um with that i conclude thank you
[3:06:45] i have been sworn in my name is anne
ball i live at 6863 tylersville road i
[3:06:52] am not in the community rosemont
i have been a resident of deerfield
[3:06:58] township all my life
my husband and i live in my on my
[3:07:03] family's farm what's left of it
in a foreign house
[3:07:08] that has been there for nearly 200 years
um
[3:07:13] i'm going to talk about this from a
little different perspective
[3:07:18] obviously i've lived here all my life
something's going to go on that piece of
[3:07:24] property
it probably will be this
[3:07:28] development
most of you probably know that mr lawson
[3:07:32] has passed away bonnie passed away
a while ago
[3:07:37] so the next piece of property
that belongs to them will be
[3:07:42] here soon i'm sure
talking about something going there
[3:07:49] you have an
opportunity to
[3:07:53] make tylersville something different
than what it currently is
[3:07:58] and i know everybody thinks that
tylersville is a major thoroughfare
[3:08:02] which it is
i live on it i have to get in and out of
[3:08:07] it
i have lived there all my life
[3:08:12] i was there in a two-lane road i didn't
used to be able to see down to the
[3:08:18] intersection of snyder road
or 42.
[3:08:23] with all the changes that have been
happened have gone on
[3:08:28] we now have light that comes at our
property and i have a two-story
[3:08:33] home
and
[3:08:37] so i'm going to say to you
when you put the new lights and that new
[3:08:43] load that that new
[3:08:47] the new development
that's going to impact us
[3:08:52] again we live there we do have farm
equipment that still comes in and out of
[3:08:56] our property and we are one voice
to many others and and i'm not saying
[3:09:03] the other
issues aren't an issue
[3:09:07] and
what i'm going to say to you is not
[3:09:10] going to change it but i want you to
think about this
[3:09:13] we have to get in and out of our
property sometimes there's accidents and
[3:09:17] we can't get in and out of our driveway
so
[3:09:22] there's going to be another light
the timing of that light with the timing
[3:09:27] of the light that's at butler warren and
tylersville and then the timing of the
[3:09:31] light that's down at snyder will impact
us
[3:09:34] so i'm going to say make decision what
you're going to do but realize that
[3:09:39] another 200 cars or whatever doesn't
seem much because you don't live there
[3:09:45] and there could be more with with
whatever but
[3:09:50] that timing does impact somebody
that light impacts somebody the other
[3:09:56] thing is that commercial will impact us
and it bothers me that it's a different
[3:10:02] paradigm then that's why you can't talk
about what's going to be there and the
[3:10:07] decision after you okay this commercial
is going to be in phase two i've lived a
[3:10:13] pod the pud across the road from us it
was all supposed to be one-story
[3:10:18] buildings guess what
after the pud was approved they put a
[3:10:23] two-story bank down at the corner yes
that impacted us
[3:10:28] it changed the line of sight that we had
that was free before and would have been
[3:10:35] still free and clear
but they put a two story building down
[3:10:40] there
that's going to possibly happen here
[3:10:44] depending on what the use is i'm sorry
not having a plan with what's going that
[3:10:50] commercial is going to look like
you have a better plan an idea what's
[3:10:56] going to be there if there's interest in
it already there already has to be some
[3:11:01] ability to say what those buildings are
going to be and what and i understand in
[3:11:07] previous
meetings that they're going to be one
[3:11:10] story i don't feel comfortable that once
you approve this that phase two
[3:11:15] something's not going to change it oh we
want to put such and such there and it's
[3:11:19] going to be a two-story building
and the lighting
[3:11:24] it does impact us it has changed i mean
we can see
[3:11:31] the the
the lighting for the signs that you know
[3:11:35] change it's not just a light with a you
know a sign whatever down at snyder road
[3:11:41] we can see that at night
so
[3:11:45] you have an opportunity
with what you allow to be there and
[3:11:51] what's going to come next
and i have to say the neighborhood
[3:11:57] the pd that's across from us the
neighborhood that was behind them they
[3:12:02] fought it because there was going to be
a 24 hour there was going to be a
[3:12:06] restaurant and a bar there
that
[3:12:09] that residential community didn't want
that because they didn't want 24
[3:12:14] you know our
um you know in
[3:12:18] traffic and all of that luckily that's
the one thing about that pud it's a type
[3:12:23] of
[3:12:26] offices that people are there like eight
to five whatever
[3:12:31] who knows it's just more but you've got
the opportunity to change the impact and
[3:12:36] make tylersville road
look
[3:12:40] not like colerain avenue and i know
that most people think it already does
[3:12:46] but you can change it
you can change it and i understand all
[3:12:51] the things that the the rosemont
residents are saying and i would be
[3:12:57] upset with that myself
something will go there
[3:13:01] and when you own a piece of property you
do have the right to sell it
[3:13:06] believe me i wish that i could say that
my property will never be something else
[3:13:12] but
progress is on toll is this what it's
[3:13:16] what it is i wish it was what it was 60
years ago when it was farm and my
[3:13:23] nearest neighbor was
where the lawson's property was and that
[3:13:29] actually was my grandmother's family's
property at one time but it's going to
[3:13:34] change
and
[3:13:36] i appreciate your time
and
[3:13:40] but just realize there is a resident on
tylersville room
[3:13:45] and what you do on those properties
impacts someone else too
[3:13:51] thank you so much miss paul one second i
just one second if you could just walk
[3:13:55] back um i just wanted you to know we do
have a new zone that we're introducing
[3:14:00] into our zoning code that protects
property like yours for residents who
[3:14:04] feel the exact same way that you feel
and they don't want their land turned
[3:14:07] into something down the road so i'll
have somebody from the township reach
[3:14:11] out to you directly for some more
information about that and that gives
[3:14:14] you a lot more freedom to protect your
land
[3:14:18] thank you for a few bucks i'll take the
land and the cows because i think your
[3:14:22] property is amazing but i'll have
somebody from the township regionalities
[3:14:25] i i appreciate that and actually thank
thank goodness there are things called
[3:14:30] ag districts of which we're a part of
that also helps us and i'll put in a
[3:14:36] little plug that's another reason that
we have to maintain cauv as well
[3:14:41] so that people can maintain their
properties and have agriculture and
[3:14:47] green space is not agriculture
green space is not is not what everybody
[3:14:53] claims that it is
so but i do appreciate that thank you so
[3:14:57] much
about that
[3:15:00] all right the last thing i have is just
to recall jeffrey wu from earlier i'm
[3:15:04] not sure
[3:15:13] thank you everyone
[3:15:27] but i do want to thank you all for
coming up and speaking i know
[3:15:30] it's not
always easy and it's always
[3:15:36] groups you're spending your entire
evening with us which is
[3:15:39] i'm sure there's things that would much
rather have been doing on your tuesday
[3:15:42] nights or your monday nights that you
spent coming with zoning commission
[3:15:44] meetings so i want to thank you very
sincerely for that
[3:15:48] um if that said
would you guys like
[3:15:52] the application you know and address
some of the things okay would you mind
[3:15:59] thank
you
[3:16:02] oh
let me just
[3:16:06] what you could lift that mic up to you
yeah
[3:16:10] everyone hear me okay
so
[3:16:16] you know we we've embarked on this
process
[3:16:19] january february is when we submit our
original plan
[3:16:23] and um
you know
[3:16:26] we as a developer sincerely
put our best foot forward
[3:16:31] in everything that we do we have
sincerely throughout these proceedings
[3:16:36] and a couple
meetings
[3:16:40] with rosemont south hoa outside of
formal governmental proceedings
[3:16:45] have listened to
concerns
[3:16:48] and had made best efforts to address
concerns
[3:16:52] and there's several things that i heard
tonight
[3:16:55] that i need i absolutely need to
readdress because as a developer
[3:17:01] we have to stand up here and make sure
all of our eyes are dotted
[3:17:05] and all of our t's are crossed
and there's just some things that i
[3:17:11] think really need to be
reiterated and
[3:17:15] driven home there's a lot
of conversation and dialogue tonight
[3:17:20] about the pond
the pond at the northwest corner of the
[3:17:24] site
this would be a pond there's two types
[3:17:27] of detention dry basins and
wet basins
[3:17:31] most people prefer wet basins because
it's an aesthetic amenity they look nice
[3:17:38] we typically aerate our ponds so
um if you've ever noticed say for
[3:17:43] example the pond in front of mercy
uh medical office building on mason
[3:17:47] montgomery road you know we we own that
pond we put a big fountain there to keep
[3:17:51] the water flowing and to try to cut down
on
[3:17:54] bugs and
geese and everything else
[3:17:58] so
long cove is a great example i mean
[3:18:03] long cove is a pretty flat piece of
ground and
[3:18:07] a bunch of wet detention pond basins
became a real amenity
[3:18:12] i think it's really important to
point out i was looking at google earth
[3:18:16] on my phone before
i just want to make sure you're all
[3:18:19] aware that there are wet detention ponds
in the rosemont south subdivision
[3:18:24] um
i don't i don't think i have access to
[3:18:27] google earth on this laptop or i'd show
you but if you go to google earth and
[3:18:31] you look at the rosemont south
subdivision there are detention ponds
[3:18:35] they are wet they appear to be wet
basins so they're ponds and
[3:18:39] many homes back right up to these ponds
early on
[3:18:44] first zoning commission meeting we heard
concerns about safety we took those
[3:18:50] concerns very seriously so
i just want to reiterate that
[3:18:55] we have proposed
or committed to
[3:19:00] a a six-foot privacy fence behind north
of the pond so to keep
[3:19:07] people out so people can't accidentally
stumble into the pond
[3:19:11] and then and also it's it's a visual
buffer between
[3:19:15] the neighbors to the north and this this
development and then if you see here
[3:19:18] there's a 45 degree angle that that is
in a uh northeasterly southwesterly
[3:19:26] direction
that as well would be a six foot high
[3:19:29] privacy fence then when it gets down on
our property so heading south along our
[3:19:34] western property line heading back east
south of the pond and back up this way
[3:19:39] there we're proposing a a four foot high
fence it's more of the type of safety
[3:19:44] fence that you would see around a
swimming pool which
[3:19:46] you know i think that's the whole reason
that swimming pools are fenced and we're
[3:19:50] proposing the same kind of fence there
so
[3:19:52] in terms of safety of a detention
basin
[3:19:57] i believe we've addressed that i don't
believe that the ponds in rosemont south
[3:20:00] have safety fencing around them
detention ponds i mean i've been
[3:20:06] doing this for quite a while now i i
mean detention ponds are
[3:20:10] necessary
the reason that we have ponds is so as
[3:20:14] john touched on earlier that
the the rate of storm water leaving our
[3:20:20] site
post development
[3:20:25] is equal roughly equal to the amount
that's leaving the site
[3:20:29] pre-development the pond is here
for
[3:20:34] folks that are downstream for their
benefit
[3:20:37] i mean that that's why it's there we
have to hold water in in meter
[3:20:42] you know the water leaving our site
meter it in terms of just you know we
[3:20:46] have to let it let it leave our site at
a certain rate i think that's i think
[3:20:50] that's an important point to make
[3:20:55] i'd like to explain
the berm again that we're proposing
[3:20:59] behind the pond because
i
[3:21:02] you know i've listened to people
speak this evening
[3:21:06] and i'm not sure that there's
and maybe maybe
[3:21:12] it's our
fault for not explaining it well but
[3:21:16] the the visual impact
and the
[3:21:21] buffering that the mound provides this
berm north of the pond
[3:21:26] is going to provide
the same
[3:21:29] visual
buffer so here here's kind of a cross
[3:21:33] section of what we call the mouth this
is the mound that traverses up most of
[3:21:39] the northern property line
as mentioned earlier the mound is nine
[3:21:43] feet in height at the peak
it's 70 feet wide
[3:21:48] and there's a six foot high privacy
fence on top so a nine foot mound plus a
[3:21:53] six foot privacy fence that's 15 feet
the top of the fence is 15 feet
[3:21:59] from roughly from the elevation and our
northern property line
[3:22:03] there's a three to one slope here on the
northern
[3:22:06] uh side of the mound
we're proposing
[3:22:10] plantings just to visually provide some
visual screening from the from the
[3:22:15] privacy fence
so that's what we are calling the mount
[3:22:20] then if we flip
forward a few slides
[3:22:24] um
we can see
[3:22:27] what we're proposing
north of the mount so i'm sorry north of
[3:22:31] the pond so the mound that i just showed
you the cross section of is here
[3:22:34] and then it it it's it extends east west
along most of the site but when you get
[3:22:39] to this last section
of the property in the northwest corner
[3:22:45] we simply don't have room to do the full
amount but
[3:22:49] we call it a berm it's essentially half
of a mound and and if you're standing
[3:22:54] once again at our northern property line
the visual impact is with is from with
[3:22:59] what we're proposing is with is within
one foot
[3:23:03] one foot
of what we're proposing for the mound so
[3:23:07] we've got a three to one slope
looks very similar to
[3:23:11] the three to one slope here
[3:23:15] that mount height i believe is about six
feet and then on top of that
[3:23:19] we have an eight foot high privacy fence
to get to 14 feet
[3:23:23] it's within approximately one foot
um and once again we're proposing to
[3:23:29] provide plantings on this northern face
of this berm to provide the same kind of
[3:23:35] screening so people don't have to look
at the privacy fence i think the concern
[3:23:41] about light spillage from the headlights
i think
[3:23:45] i i mean i don't i think john del vernon
didn't even bear becker and and i just
[3:23:50] want to say bear becker's been in
business for 60 years this is a very
[3:23:54] reputable
civil engineering firm
[3:23:58] they're very very good at what they do
and they've provided engineering for
[3:24:03] you know
developments of all different sizes all
[3:24:07] throughout greater cincinnati northern
kentucky and
[3:24:10] indiana as well so
but
[3:24:14] you know
john gave the the elevations from kind
[3:24:18] of the intersection of fireside drive
and and we don't believe that light
[3:24:22] spillage um
is going to be any concern whatsoever
[3:24:26] for the residents north of here due to
the graves due to this berm due to the
[3:24:31] fence on top of the berm
um so i wanted to run through that again
[3:24:36] i also um
i heard concerns about traffic tonight
[3:24:41] and
i i sometimes feel like when we address
[3:24:44] one issue
[3:24:47] uh there's people that get up and stand
up and go back
[3:24:52] to their original position in other
words we heard a lot of feedback early
[3:24:55] on
in the zenith commission meetings
[3:24:58] that that
the rosemont south neighbors did not
[3:25:02] unequivocally did not want a connection
point
[3:25:05] from this development to thornberry
court
[3:25:08] here let me
let me move back
[3:25:12] okay they did not want this connection
point
[3:25:16] they thought it would
[3:25:19] cause traffic and in their subdivision
which
[3:25:23] you know i think the only
time somebody visiting uh
[3:25:28] a store here or living here would would
drive there would be maybe if they had a
[3:25:32] friend or family member that lived there
but but that was a real concern
[3:25:36] and so the warren county engineers
office agreed to just allow this to be
[3:25:42] emergency access only gated access that
a typical vehicle
[3:25:47] is not going to be able to get from this
this side of the gate to thornbury court
[3:25:52] and then tonight
we hear people concern
[3:25:55] that we only have one point of access
but so
[3:25:59] we heard the concerns loud and clear
about this and then tonight we hear well
[3:26:04] now we only have one point of access so
i mean
[3:26:06] you know we're doing our best to solve
issues but but but then
[3:26:11] you know
i hear a lot of kind of changing
[3:26:16] people changing their positions
the same thing applies to school there
[3:26:20] was a lot
there was a lot of commentary
[3:26:24] from concerned neighbors about the
impacts that this would have to the
[3:26:27] school district concerns about mason
schools it's getting crowded so we
[3:26:32] provided facts that show
the proof that our apartment communities
[3:26:37] in deerfield township are hardly adding
any strain to the schools but but adding
[3:26:42] a significant amount of school
of revenue for the schools so in
[3:26:47] increasing the buffer and eliminating
the town homes which are three bedroom
[3:26:51] units those were the most likely to
attract maybe school-age kids um you
[3:26:56] know we thought we were
solving a couple issues one providing a
[3:27:00] much more robust buffer and two
getting rid of 70 bedrooms and then
[3:27:05] tonight
we hear a lot about
[3:27:08] well there's not going to be any kids
living here but early on at the zenith
[3:27:11] commission meetings that's that's a big
part of what we heard was oh there's
[3:27:15] going to be all these you're adding you
know 196 units and there's going to be
[3:27:18] all these kids and mason schools
requesting at the seams so i wanted to
[3:27:23] point that out
um
[3:27:26] i also want to make it clear i think the
board probably knows this but i just
[3:27:30] want to make it clear to everybody here
tonight
[3:27:32] we were not the developer
that proposed the plan back in 2014. i
[3:27:37] just want to make that unequivocally
clear i don't even know who the
[3:27:40] developer was and i don't really think
that plans at all germane to anything
[3:27:44] we're discussing tonight because in 2014
the vision for 2035 landings plan wasn't
[3:27:51] even adopted
it wasn't adopted in 2014 so that
[3:27:55] developer
i'm not sure if there's a landing's
[3:27:58] planned before that but that developer
even either went in with without any
[3:28:02] kind of guide or
went in with
[3:28:05] you know maybe with looking at the prior
land use plan but
[3:28:10] the vision for for 2035 which is the
current landings plan was not adopted
[3:28:15] until 2015. as a developer we have an
appreciation for how much time effort
[3:28:20] money
communities spent on their comprehensive
[3:28:23] plan on their landings plan for us
that's our guide
[3:28:28] i mean
staff takes it seriously developers take
[3:28:32] it seriously because that is our guide
that is our roadmap
[3:28:36] to to uh guide us to make sure that
we're presenting something that is
[3:28:41] consistent with the township's uh
desires
[3:28:45] uh vis-a-vis our land use plan
and
[3:28:49] there are
this plan is absolutely consistent
[3:28:54] with the land use plan
i think you have an excellent staff here
[3:28:58] i think the staff report
laid out many of the consistencies we
[3:29:03] laid out many of the consistencies this
evening this plant has received support
[3:29:07] from the warren county regional planning
commission unanimous support from the
[3:29:11] deerfield township zoning commission and
every step of the way
[3:29:15] every board that's reviewed this has
felt
[3:29:18] strongly that this plan is in fact
consistent with the land display
[3:29:23] um
[3:29:26] a couple other points i'd like to make
somebody mentioned the
[3:29:31] showed a graphic or a site plan of the
previous plan from 2014
[3:29:36] and showed the pond
the pond
[3:29:39] was at the north right on the northern
property line in the 2014 plan
[3:29:44] it was moved over a little bit
but
[3:29:47] generally in the same vicinity i mean it
was it was there it was maybe right here
[3:29:52] instead of right here but it was right
on the northern property line it wasn't
[3:29:56] down here
it was it was right up here
[3:30:00] so i want to make that point
um
[3:30:05] you know i just i want to correct some
factual error somebody made a comparison
[3:30:09] to the grandstand which was located on
wilkins boulevard and said something to
[3:30:14] the effect that cars could just drive
right into somebody's living room i mean
[3:30:20] the fact is there's a retaining wall
along the entire east face of the
[3:30:25] grandstand of wilkins boulevard so i
mean i i just you know we
[3:30:30] we always have to get up and state facts
and be very careful of facts and i you
[3:30:34] know i i just i want to point that out
because it's just factually untrue
[3:30:39] you know if you listen to that
individual you think that the grandstone
[3:30:42] is on grade with wilkins boulevard
people can just you know drive their car
[3:30:45] right in it's not it sits it sits above
grade it sits
[3:30:49] enough above grade that there's a fairly
significant retaining wall there so i
[3:30:53] just wanted to make that point
um somebody mentioned that during covet
[3:30:58] there's no more demand
for for apartments um
[3:31:05] we have found that uh
the reality is
[3:31:09] diametrically opposite of that um the
demand that we've seen at one deerfield
[3:31:14] which opened last year we are now 100
lease i mean
[3:31:18] the the amount of applications that we
have seen at one deerfield over the last
[3:31:23] six months is astounding it's it's
better than anything we've seen during
[3:31:28] the
best leasing months of a non-pandemic
[3:31:30] year so
while uh
[3:31:33] you know it simply wasn't a factual
statement there there's a lot of demand
[3:31:37] for apartments
we see companies in the deerfield
[3:31:41] township area hiring all the time we see
people transferring in with with with
[3:31:45] jobs you know
honeywell intelligrated png is doing a
[3:31:50] lot of hiring so
it simply was was just not a true
[3:31:54] statement
um
[3:31:58] i think uh the one last thing i want to
point out is
[3:32:02] two last things the green space once
again i just i want to reiterate we have
[3:32:06] almost 40 percent
green space open space
[3:32:11] um
would you
[3:32:13] choose your your terminology
but
[3:32:16] i mean i'm sorry that's that's that's
the old plan let me go flip back to the
[3:32:22] newer plan
[3:32:33] and one of the zoning commission members
made the comment they didn't think
[3:32:36] they'd ever seen a plan come through
deerfield township
[3:32:39] with 40
open space
[3:32:42] 40
and and
[3:32:45] which far exceeds the township
requirement and then uh 48
[3:32:49] of that of that
open space is active open space so we
[3:32:53] have these huge green areas these are
not insignificant and these areas are
[3:32:58] you know
70 80 feet wide
[3:33:01] this buffer is very significant there is
a lot of open space
[3:33:06] within this proposed plan and then
lastly i just want to talk about
[3:33:11] the density because
[3:33:14] i think staff did a really good job with
this this slide i don't think i can get
[3:33:18] it up here but
basically
[3:33:22] the township used to uh calculate
density on a gross density basis
[3:33:26] and and then
something changed and now it's on a net
[3:33:30] density basis i mean basically when
i mean as far as the impact it's exactly
[3:33:37] the same so take grantstone for example
when grandstone went through the
[3:33:41] township was still looking at things on
a gross density basis
[3:33:45] grandstone is 122 units on 5.4 acres
that's 22.59 units per acre
[3:33:51] and
but now if you look at it net density
[3:33:56] it's 33 units in acres so
it's but but the impact of the
[3:34:00] grandstand didn't change on paper
suddenly it went from 22 units an acre
[3:34:04] to 33 units an acre but nothing changed
it's not generating more traffic now
[3:34:09] it's it's numbers on a piece of paper
um
[3:34:12] and and
you know
[3:34:15] this proposal is is half as dense in the
grandstone and in it either way you look
[3:34:20] at it whether you want to look at it on
a gross density or net density
[3:34:24] it's of a lower density than deerfield
springs district of deerfield latitude
[3:34:29] grandstone and it's it's comparable to
nantucket
[3:34:34] so i mean my contention is in our
content is that it's really not it's not
[3:34:39] very dense and there's a lot of green
space and there's a very robust buffer
[3:34:44] and um
you know just
[3:34:47] when the township went from a gross
density calculation to a net density
[3:34:52] everything in the township got more
dense i mean
[3:34:55] every every every community
every every development got more dance
[3:34:59] but that doesn't mean the impacts
have
[3:35:02] have been enhanced or or are more severe
now so
[3:35:07] um appreciate the additional time and um
we're certainly here i don't know if
[3:35:12] anyone else from our team wants to get
up and say anything but we're here to
[3:35:15] answer any questions that you might have
can i have one
[3:35:20] 15 seconds to get you over
we're done
[3:35:25] [Music]
[3:36:04] this will be my last warning to you
[3:36:11] thank you
[3:36:15] all right
we need to make
[3:36:33] sister to close the public comment
portion of this that's my hotel yeah
[3:36:38] yes mr sicily yes all right
all right you know i may go ahead you
[3:36:44] guys are free to watch during this
portion of the prototype portion of this
[3:36:47] is over the whole concept of due process
is allowing everyone an opportunity to
[3:36:52] speak and then it also allows the
opportunity for the applicant to get up
[3:36:57] and say anything in their butt anything
that was said before that once that's
[3:37:01] done you're allowed to participate by
watching but you're not allowed to
[3:37:04] participate by
by talking so they'll deliberate
[3:37:08] publicly and then they'll come to a
decision but this can't be a process
[3:37:12] where whatever they have to say you all
want to say yes but this that'll be it i
[3:37:16] definitely get the
propensity as a resident or an applicant
[3:37:20] for one to do that it was very important
i'll be very
[3:37:23] um insistent on the fact the fact that
this is now their job to do without
[3:37:29] additional input
thank you
[3:37:35] thank you sure
so
[3:37:41] you want to start
[3:37:45] well i think that
clearly
[3:37:48] zone changes are the most important
thing that we do this is a change
[3:37:55] so you have to be willing to look at
that
[3:37:58] map and think that yes i need to change
the zone on this and all of these
[3:38:02] reasons we're compelling enough to do it
there's a lot of compelling reasons but
[3:38:07] is it enough it doesn't line up
with
[3:38:11] changing
the color on the map for the zone
[3:38:16] and that's really something we have to
unpack because we have a lot of
[3:38:19] information here
but the one thing that i keep coming
[3:38:23] back to is
growth management growth management for
[3:38:28] advancement this is what we all ran on
smart development
[3:38:34] so i've driven up and down tylersville a
million times in the past decade
[3:38:38] i can't tell you how many times since
this case has been coming before
[3:38:42] the only commission there's houses
there's single family houses all up and
[3:38:45] down tylersville there's single family
houses all up and down based on
[3:38:49] montgomery
find a major road without single family
[3:38:52] on there and explain to me why this
can't be single family
[3:38:56] i think the zone is i think the zone's
correct
[3:39:01] i think the zone is correct
this plan doesn't work for me for a lot
[3:39:06] of reasons this plan is very confused
there's not transition here there's
[3:39:11] commercial here and then there's very
high density apartment buildings and for
[3:39:14] me
even knowing
[3:39:17] that
silverman's products are amazing that my
[3:39:20] 10 year will run away from home right
now to go live in his apartment they are
[3:39:24] classy they're they're brilliant this is
not the right spot for this
[3:39:29] development in my opinion
[3:39:33] so i i'm gonna stand with the the zone
is the right zone single family is
[3:39:39] absolutely the most impossible thing to
get
[3:39:42] in our zip code
if you build it they will come
[3:39:46] and that's not to take away from
anything that
[3:39:50] mr silverman has done at his other
locations
[3:39:54] nothing separate the two is this still
in the right zone
[3:39:58] right now
[3:40:10] through all this time
looking at
[3:40:13] all the
the different versions and proposals and
[3:40:16] everything
that was not something that i had
[3:40:20] considered
[3:40:26] my biggest concerns
are
[3:40:32] it's it's like it's been mentioned
several times before
[3:40:35] some things don't want to be there
um
[3:40:40] what is the smartest
thing for us to focus on
[3:40:46] um
and
[3:40:48] the the thing that keeps coming back to
me is is when
[3:40:52] when i'm taking notes and i hear
um
[3:40:57] it seems like it's so close um
that
[3:41:02] this this development can
can be successful
[3:41:08] but there would like to be just there's
there needs to be a little bit more
[3:41:13] movement
and i know that there's been a great
[3:41:16] deal of compliments
and and i
[3:41:20] i respect that and i appreciate that
that that means a lot to me
[3:41:24] when i'm trying to
think about some of these issues with
[3:41:29] you know compromise for the residents
compromised from the developers and
[3:41:33] their plans and
how this has changed several times um
[3:41:39] so when i looked at it
my thinking wasn't from the standpoint
[3:41:44] of single family my
view of this was
[3:41:50] what can we do
to consider
[3:41:54] all of those houses
at the top
[3:41:57] um
and
[3:41:59] if that means that
we need to consider
[3:42:04] extending that amount
and
[3:42:07] sliding the retention on down
the possibility of doing that i
[3:42:13] understand that that might impact
um
[3:42:17] building more in in this case
[3:42:22] that has the possibility of lowering
some of the density which is something
[3:42:26] that that some of the um the residents
have mentioned it has an impact on
[3:42:34] any possibility of light pollution
that can come in whether it's realized
[3:42:39] or not that has an opportunity to um to
impact those specific houses behind
[3:42:46] their retention pond um
and
[3:42:49] and then if we provide more of that
um
[3:42:54] that sort of barrier between the
families the residences in the north and
[3:43:01] um
the retention pond and that can also
[3:43:04] alleviate some of the uh concerns in
terms of
[3:43:08] safety and and and i appreciate that the
the fencing that goes around i know that
[3:43:13] goes in one way um
but
[3:43:17] you know being able to have that barrier
as well um could alleviate that so it to
[3:43:22] me it seems like that
if if we can evaluate just a little bit
[3:43:28] more of that it would um
it would alleviate a lot of of the
[3:43:35] concerns
from a number of of the residents and
[3:43:39] then
another thing that i that was mentioned
[3:43:42] is
this property
[3:43:44] next to it is is
going to be developed as well um and if
[3:43:51] we can
again include
[3:43:54] sort of that um that barrier up at the
top that burn the top that provides some
[3:44:00] of the consistency into possible future
development whether that's
[3:44:05] you know a
single family or whether that's you know
[3:44:08] another resource density so
when i look at
[3:44:12] this i i think that it could be a
successful
[3:44:18] um
development
[3:44:21] all around
with a little bit of those a little bit
[3:44:25] of those tweaks
so why do you think single family can't
[3:44:28] work for
i'm not saying that it can't
[3:44:33] um
i think some some of my concern is is as
[3:44:38] you have
going
[3:44:42] east down tylersville um you've got
doctors offices you've got you know some
[3:44:48] of some of that commercial um
and then you've got
[3:44:53] the the agriculture area that will be
developed in the future um
[3:45:01] i'm not developing her land yeah well
as as we go as we go further down that's
[3:45:07] that's true um and and i i get that i
understand that's that's the point that
[3:45:12] i'm trying to like i was not thinking
from any
[3:45:15] um in any capacity of single family and
being necessarily
[3:45:21] [Music]
successful
[3:45:24] on
[3:45:35] how can we make this how do we make this
work for everybody
[3:45:39] but this is the first go-around
right
[3:45:42] and so i just want you to really
understand that
[3:45:46] when you make this is your first zone
case right your zoning
[3:45:51] case yeah
yeah like when you change the color it's
[3:45:55] permanent and you know you need to
really understand why you're doing that
[3:46:00] and an example would be the golf center
there the first proposal was 200 and
[3:46:06] some multi-family homes back there we
were told single family could never go
[3:46:09] back there could never work
there's single-family homes back there
[3:46:14] right now they went like this with power
lines through them and everything else
[3:46:18] so
[3:46:20] this is a first go around it doesn't
mean it's even something you have to
[3:46:23] really work with
[3:46:27] but you have to be absolutely committed
that if you're gonna say yeah we should
[3:46:30] change the zone
so our job as trustees
[3:46:36] considering his own change is not to
think of alternate solutions
[3:46:41] to evaluate
is the zone king zone that's on it now
[3:46:45] the highest and best use in alignment
with our comprehensive plan in alignment
[3:46:50] with what's around it in alignment with
what's best for the entire township or
[3:46:56] is this new zone
not is there another zone that could be
[3:46:59] better because that's not on the table
right now
[3:47:02] so
because it kind of sounds like you were
[3:47:05] venturing off into like a little bit of
like uh
[3:47:09] and i don't know if that's what you were
doing
[3:47:11] uh i don't know i'm just reading right
now to be honest with you so okay no
[3:47:15] idea
you give
[3:47:24] no i asked him is he comfortable
changing the zone
[3:47:28] that's what i asked him are you
comfortable doing that and that you
[3:47:31] don't have to figure out what the next
step is you're deciding right now that's
[3:47:34] what i was trying to say you don't have
to figure out what what comes next right
[3:47:37] yeah it's not working to do okay
so
[3:47:41] um
just to get some of my initial thoughts
[3:47:45] out
[3:47:49] the retention i mean i'm hearing that
that we did strike the compromise if
[3:47:53] they extend the berm
and the
[3:47:56] move the retention
bond but then i'm also hearing that you
[3:48:02] know
single family is really like what you
[3:48:05] guys want
you're going to be compromising it's
[3:48:07] going to be
kind of a
[3:48:11] letdown but just to get it that way
which that's not what they want for
[3:48:16] anyone
i'm uncomfortable with the
[3:48:19] commercial out front that we don't
really know what it's going to be
[3:48:23] at this point um and i see like the
common beer company which is right there
[3:48:27] which is
closed and has been empty for a while
[3:48:31] and
would be a great place for another
[3:48:34] restaurant to pop in and hasn't done so
yet and so it makes me uncomfortable at
[3:48:38] this point especially hearing what you
guys are saying
[3:48:41] um
and when they said they didn't know
[3:48:43] exactly what that person was
i'm not comfortable with with approving
[3:48:47] something if i'm not going to know
what's going in there at this point i
[3:48:50] thought we had a better clearer kind of
idea of what was going there
[3:48:56] so
i i appreciate
[3:49:00] everything that
everyone has done and everyone is across
[3:49:04] the table and talk about them
i hear what you're saying about
[3:49:08] if
[3:49:11] but i also see what's in our
comprehensive plan
[3:49:13] where we
said that it should be a step down from
[3:49:19] business down to
because that's alright already is a long
[3:49:23] highly skilled road
[Music]
[3:49:26] so so this is tricky and i guess i'm not
making much sense i'm not steering us in
[3:49:30] a direction either way here right now um
i'm just kind of just part of the
[3:49:35] discussion to try and continue this
session without
[3:49:38] you making a decision myself right now
well the character is a recommendation
[3:49:42] it's not set in stone it's fluent it's a
character area
[3:49:47] and it's saying no to this doesn't mean
no always
[3:49:51] it means this isn't the right plan for
the density for the retail aspect or
[3:49:57] the
transition there's a lot of reasons that
[3:50:01] this isn't the right plan so you stick
with where you're at and
[3:50:07] see what what comes back
breathe forward maybe it's silver maybe
[3:50:11] somebody else but the character area is
the recommendation the zone is permanent
[3:50:32] we have to agree
[3:50:40] but
of course but i'm saying we don't have
[3:50:42] to do something right now just because
of the character area recommendation and
[3:50:46] the first plan
we have so little land to develop in
[3:50:49] deerfield township we have so
little land left
[3:50:55] and we all ran on smart growth smart
development
[3:51:00] we all did so if you do think this is
the smartest thing then do it i don't
[3:51:05] think with his little land as we have
left that this is the smartest use of
[3:51:08] that land
it doesn't make sense there when i think
[3:51:13] of
one's airfield and the grandstone you
[3:51:16] park there you walk everywhere you don't
have to get your car out all weekend if
[3:51:21] you don't want to you walk to the gym
you can walk in groceries you're in
[3:51:24] movies you can walk to the bar you can
walk whatever that's not
[3:51:28] the place for
this
[3:51:31] high-end
apartment complex that has some retail
[3:51:34] in the front it just isn't
[3:51:38] in my opinion it just isn't when you
want to park your car when you've had
[3:51:41] your apartment it is literally so you
can walk anywhere and
[3:51:46] not have to get it in and out and in and
out and now
[3:51:50] it's not anything against the apartment
as well if there's your hand if you've
[3:51:53] never lived in an apartment
right i mean
[3:51:57] so with as little land as we have
and this plan is not a home run for
[3:52:02] anybody here
[3:52:06] and it's zoned for the way it's been
zoned for years for a reason
[3:52:10] and the past has already turned down a
different
[3:52:13] uh you know years ago a different use we
haven't found the right thing yet the
[3:52:18] right thing has not come forward and
this is going to set precedent for the
[3:52:21] iranian land that we have left which is
so little
[3:52:29] so
smart growth
[3:52:31] for me is to say this this is not a
high dense apartment complex no matter
[3:52:38] how beautiful doesn't fit there
it doesn't
[3:52:42] there's nobody going to park there and
walk to
[3:52:45] the chiropractor on the corner
[3:52:52] or the insurance company with
alterations that's what's over there and
[3:52:54] they've driven over there a million
times but if you drive a little further
[3:52:57] down there's homes all the way against
tylersville a beautiful firm
[3:53:02] like there is homes all up and down
pilots though was the last time you were
[3:53:06] on tyler's lawyer it's on your
opposite side of your
[3:53:11] town
oh okay
[3:53:19] so if you wanted to move this along i'm
a no on this
[3:53:23] and
i know we'll see a better plan uh
[3:53:44] um
[3:54:04] and
it is it is tough um you know because
[3:54:10] with a look at
residents
[3:54:14] um
who are
[3:54:17] you know
[3:54:20] have have different thoughts for foods
that are have different
[3:54:24] different
ideas
[3:54:28] and
[3:54:35] um
[3:54:43] best for
for them
[3:54:54] this decision is
it's more than
[3:54:58] those houses there but
those houses are
[3:55:02] pretty important
so that's why it's it's difficult for me
[3:55:06] to
um
[3:55:11] be able to say
this
[3:55:17] so trustee headings and now
i will say that
[3:55:23] the only way i would vote yes on this is
if we extended that verb i never
[3:55:27] so that would be a condition that we
would add to the pov and that's the only
[3:55:31] way that i would say yes
you still don't have your retail
[3:55:35] compliance
[3:55:39] [Music]
[3:55:54] the
apartments you know getting that and
[3:55:57] then
our trusted only commission we appoint
[3:56:00] them
to approve
[3:56:03] the commercial and i trust them to
make wise decisions there and that's
[3:56:07] their job to do have this other
department
[3:56:12] so
[3:56:15] you already got to know
so i'm talking to trustee siciliano here
[3:56:21] to let him know that if that's the way
he wanted to go
[3:56:24] whichever way he wants to go on this but
i would only do it by adding conditions
[3:56:28] that would send the berm all the way
across to keep a consistent smooth
[3:56:31] retention pun
at the expense of it we have to lose the
[3:56:35] building and we can figure the
development
[3:56:41] and if that's too big of a change if we
need to come back and redo this after
[3:56:45] those changes if that's too big
because i don't know because that
[3:56:49] changes that picture completely
[3:57:04] and they have to move their attention on
and then that causes them to have to say
[3:57:08] reconfigure how the buildings are
set up
[3:57:12] does that do they have to come back
through the process or is that something
[3:57:16] that comes through
i would probably say that that's i mean
[3:57:20] we kind of went through this once before
is would that be the equivalent of a
[3:57:23] major modification of the pvd if this
were an existing beauty
[3:57:27] if you want to put on a condition that
says
[3:57:30] um
the mound's got to go the whole length
[3:57:32] of the most outside of the property
and just put that there
[3:57:37] they're going to need to scramble to
figure out can they make that work
[3:57:40] somehow presumably in doing that they'd
have to look at changing
[3:57:45] different areas on the properties use
areas which is one of the standards is
[3:57:50] defining the use of permitted with the
pd the general location of such uses
[3:57:55] things of that nature so but if they had
to basically rework their site pen
[3:58:00] presumably so to where maybe building
one building
[3:58:04] three needs change whatever it would be
then yeah i would think that that would
[3:58:08] regrettably unfortunately but probably
be something that would be tantamount to
[3:58:12] the major beauty to which it would be
the equivalent
[3:58:29] hold on there it's not a concern but
let's just have it so i mean if it's
[3:58:33] listed as a condition
to extend
[3:58:36] and move the pollen to the south
they couldn't bring that vehicle back
[3:58:40] and if the density remains
[Music]
[3:58:50] no they don't have to go all the way
through but i do think that you would
[3:58:53] need to
come back to this
[3:58:56] with public notice and we need the
public to be able to provide i think we
[3:59:00] don't need to go back back through
intelligence oh no sorry if that's how i
[3:59:05] spoke that's not what i mean but i do
think the tantamount to they would just
[3:59:09] they would bring that robotic plan back
to this board based on the additional
[3:59:13] conditions in which you would apply to
the plan before you receive it you get
[3:59:17] to set the rules i mean if you want to
send it back to zoning commission if you
[3:59:19] want a good rpc you can there's no rule
for that but it would be the equivalent
[3:59:24] of a major ped modification to where at
a minimum i'd certainly forgive process
[3:59:29] purposes but think that you want to send
out those revised plans you want to
[3:59:33] allow the neighbors to provide input as
well you can come back and do that
[3:59:37] before this board that's one
[3:59:45] i think to summarize there are currently
18 conditions any other conditions you
[3:59:48] put on they would have to bring back a
division of showing those conditions
[3:59:55] to the extent that it modifies the use
areas of the
[3:59:58] letter literally what you're spelling
out tonight presumably if you say
[4:00:02] helper's got to be all there obviously
the retention area is going to move that
[4:00:06] by itself would probably be grounds for
it maybe not but if you're talking
[4:00:10] holistically of
rearranging buildings things of that
[4:00:13] nature that's
getting pretty close to wanting to do
[4:00:17] another
[4:00:30] if i can if i can throw out a couple
concepts you're kind of doing two things
[4:00:33] here tonight not kind of literally
you're doing a rezoning of the property
[4:00:37] and you're also to the extent you get
past the resulting phase
[4:00:41] then you're choosing whether or not to
put the preliminary
[4:00:44] plan it sounds like trustee petting is
obviously saying no i think that
[4:00:49] it should be
remain residential single family
[4:00:53] that might be a good thing for you to
get through first in your mind's eye is
[4:00:57] do you agree with that or do you not
if you can get past the concept of no i
[4:01:02] think it could be
you know neighborhood mixed
[4:01:06] then maybe then you start getting into
the preliminary pd plan components to
[4:01:09] that and then you start thinking of the
concept of
[4:01:12] do we see if we can extend the buffer
or not those different type things
[4:01:17] the further thing i will say is
at least as of the commercial component
[4:01:21] is this is the preliminary pe plan
and the zoning code lays out what's to
[4:01:26] be specified
like it or not that's just kind of how
[4:01:29] the process works is and it's been that
way all along deerfield
[4:01:33] center areas
unfortunately you know they don't
[4:01:37] typically know what their commercial
development is
[4:01:40] um at this time it's very user specific
at the end um
[4:01:44] so i wouldn't i would be uncomfortable
with you all
[4:01:47] turning in turning approval of their
preliminary pd plan down
[4:01:53] if it were
let's just say party and say exclusively
[4:01:56] on the basis of i don't know what that
commercial will be because the code
[4:02:00] doesn't make them tell you now
what that commercial would be but i just
[4:02:04] wanted to kind of get those out there
but for framing it you should understand
[4:02:08] that think through
step one would be
[4:02:11] are you comfortable with rezoning it if
the answer to that is no
[4:02:16] then that kind of ends your game
if you're conceptually willing
[4:02:20] to think about rezoning it then that's
when you should start thinking about
[4:02:24] kind of the preliminary pd plan what
additional conditions
[4:02:29] etc etc and that's then when you might
get into the concept of how
[4:02:33] much are we re-engineering this to where
we need to come back
[4:02:37] just some kind of
guiding points for along the way
[4:02:41] so there's a lot of plants that can come
back with single family with the
[4:02:44] character areas still on it
that involves single family
[4:02:48] but there's so many ways that that
property can go it can't be developed
[4:02:52] you don't have to be involved with the
first ones and
[4:03:02] also a business component to it
alongside this village i know he's
[4:03:06] saying we have single family and i've
been looking at how the rest of tyler's
[4:03:09] bill is developed
for the consistency
[4:03:14] and
for what else is there i think it does
[4:03:16] make sense to have some kind of business
yeah do you know um do you believe
[4:03:21] on montgomery road what is it called
vintage club
[4:03:26] you have a vintage club
there's a hospital like outpatient in
[4:03:31] the front there's a
yoga studio or pilates or something in
[4:03:35] the front you drive down the driveway
and you see their clubhouse they've got
[4:03:39] one apartment living here beautiful
houses town homes there's
[4:03:42] transition there's diversity and housing
they've got business in the front it's
[4:03:46] right off one of the busiest streets
there
[4:03:49] there is there's
there's uses for this land that can be
[4:03:54] higher
to a higher purpose than the apartment
[4:03:58] complex with some retail in the front
i just think we have to
[4:04:02] understand that
that saying no to this doesn't mean
[4:04:06] saying no forever to anything that could
come before us and it has to be straight
[4:04:10] single family that's not what i'm saying
this plan right now is not the right
[4:04:14] plan for that
property
[4:04:19] do you know that i'm talking about
[4:04:22] like if you go back if you go past
harvard station
[4:04:26] and it's on your left there's a medical
building there's about nearly
[4:04:32] a few years ago
[4:04:44] but it's still communities
[4:04:51] so
there's a lot you can do with single
[4:04:54] families still if it stays single
families once you're done
[4:05:14] you
[4:05:19] [Music]
[4:05:26] this property is going to eventually
become something bigger
[4:05:32] whoever develops the next
harsh portion so whatever you say now
[4:05:36] isn't going to accept them
right there so anything
[4:05:40] i know i said that we can't it's not our
job thing at all right he's not done
[4:05:44] this before i'm just trying to talk him
through like okay
[4:05:53] okay
[4:05:56] to reduce the density you can do
something for our step down that we've
[4:05:59] got in our comments you could do
something like
[4:06:03] commercial down below state town homes
down to single family homes well in the
[4:06:07] updated call plan you guys do remember
has actual lines like that there's
[4:06:11] single family there's one family there's
commercial it's just that we're behind
[4:06:15] on that because
[4:06:19] so they're not wrong
hey here's the character area and here's
[4:06:23] this they don't change they won't change
when it comes back out
[4:06:27] but it's very specific
that
[4:06:30] there's single family of events and
there's multiple
[4:06:51] and i think that kind of touched on
the original
[4:06:55] draft of this that including the talent
exists as more of that step down and
[4:07:01] that was
one of one of the points that you know
[4:07:04] the residents didn't want was
[4:07:30] all right
[4:07:42] you don't have a lot of land
[4:07:49] part left it
[4:08:19] foreign
[4:08:33] okay
[4:08:58] but
after our discussion tonight
[4:09:02] i think what i'm hearing everyone say
what's that none of us are involved with
[4:09:07] um
[4:09:10] so therefore it's maybe not the highest
and best and our job is figuring out
[4:09:16] what is the highest and best use
and what is the best
[4:09:19] vision for this property
[4:09:23] we
keep it as it is for now
[4:09:30] how do you feel about that
and it could even be silverman comes
[4:09:35] back to us they
come back with something else because i
[4:09:39] i love one deerfield it's fantastic
[4:09:52] yeah i mean like
just technology
[4:10:01] um
and i know that the residents um are not
[4:10:06] in love with this
either which
[4:10:10] is
it is important
[4:10:13] for me to hear that so yes at
this point that i
[4:10:20] i i don't i agree with this specific
[4:10:25] i think that
we would have to make
[4:10:29] some big changes to this
[4:10:33] and
[4:10:36] i i i'd be wondering if maybe you use it
and see where
[4:10:41] she was
i mean it did happen at the golf center
[4:10:44] trustee headings not wrong he turned it
down and they came back and
[4:10:49] it was a better plan they said it
couldn't be done it people it was done
[4:10:52] yeah and they sold out and
yeah like that
[4:10:56] so um
[4:11:01] i think uh
with that i will make the motion to deny
[4:11:07] the
change a second
[4:11:10] we've got a question by ms malhotra and
the second five is heading to deny the
[4:11:14] zone change in case number
2021-85
[4:11:32] is
[4:11:39] thank you very much
[4:11:44] [Music]
yes
[4:12:00] [Music]