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Any

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questions on that?
>> Uh

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just a short thank you. I guess each
time you brought it up a ton of moving

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pieces between the need uh found last
was it December or it was before the

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beginning of the new year. We was the
realization that those cases would be

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new buildings. uh took a lot of people
um to get involved to make a

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determination on space and and
everything else. Not only did they do

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that, but they're also looking at new
programming. Um so, um everybody

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involved with the case and change
programs. Um uh I would like to thank

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for the amount of effort that they put
in. Um we had several meetings directly

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with the leadership of the schools. Um,
and then the move itself, I mean, just

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to take all of those things, get it to a
different location. Um, so obviously all

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of us will have to modify some of our
paperwork, content addresses, and things

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like that for the new year um to make
sure all those things go smoothly. But

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there's a ton of moving parts and I'd
like to thank uh everybody that was

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involved in those small groups as well
as the um uh the change um employees as

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well. They do an amazing job throughout
the year um with creating these new

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programs to deter some of those youth
from being involved in juvenile justice

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system. So

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» moving on discussion of the 2026 adult
um and probation mental health grant

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awarders.

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» Sure.
Um, so

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as I think everybody probably had heard,
the budget for the pot of money that the

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DOC uses um to award things to community
as well as anybody who got opened up

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under the 106 funding
program was reduced statewide. It was

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reduced by about 10%. So um, we all had
to wait to receive our awards to find

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out where we were going to fall in that.
Um, we have spent some time looking at

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the overall awards because it is public
knowledge. So, they do a list showing

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what happened with all the money at
every county that had asked for it. Um,

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and just trying to give an idea of where
I'll say that the department of freshman

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is notoriously known for not sharing
information of how they make their

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decisions. So, if you ask them, you'll
get a pinned answer that doesn't really

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tell you anything. um it'll include
something about the funding formula and

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uh some other information about maybe
program uh reports and things like that.

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So, kind of just taking a look at the
numbers to see if we could discern on

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our own how the decisions were made. Um
what one of the first things that

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becomes obvious is that they made a
decision to cut a lot of the programs

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that received 106 funding or that had
been added in in the last

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decade sometime. Um and those were um
prosecutor diversion programs, jail

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treatment programs, pre-trial, and there
were two AA programs that were uh

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basically cut to zero funding. After
that, it looks like they took

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percentages off of problem solving
courts, probation awards, and both types

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of community corrections awards. For the
DOC, those are separated into community

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supervision and residential. So, um, for
us, for the community supervision and

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the residential, we took about a 9% cut,
which is, uh, more than some places,

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less than a lot of places. So, um, we
cannot, um, be unhappy about that, I

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suppose. Um, there were some counties
that were cut up to 30%. So, 9% doesn't

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seem as bad when you look at it that
way. Um there were some counties smaller

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programs that did only community
provision that had a 0% cut. Um I think

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about maybe 15 or so of those. So um
just estimate I didn't count them. So

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in looking at that um we had to
obviously do some rework for the budget.

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Again our hearing with county council
was on Wednesday. So, we went up um kind

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of presented to them this same
information and then asked for a little

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more assistance so that we would be able
to do staff raises. Obviously, that's a

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question across the board for the county
at this point of whether or not uh any

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kind of employees are going to be
getting raises. So, it was only a

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presentation. Um the other thing that I
also brought to their attention and help

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discuss is possibly taking some things
back over. Um, specifically what I asked

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was for the IT budget. So in the
committee corrections budget, we pay

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about $30,000 a year for software and
servers. And

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I'm I'm not going to try to say because
that that's not what it is. Uh it's

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things that we were not previously
paying for until about a year a year and

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a half ago when for whatever reason um
in the budgets they decided to switch

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that onto our responsibility. So, that's
something I've asked them to possibly

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take back and do the bad thing to the IT
budget out of some other county funding.

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Um, we will have to wait until I believe
September to have answers on that. Uh,

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we did remind the council that our
budgets to the Department of Corrections

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are due on September 1st, which I think
is actually a few days before they are

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set to meet again to do the budget
hearings. So, hopefully we will be

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provided some sort of information before
that time. Sorry about

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» the probation grant. Uh we felt about
the same percentage in cut. Um kind of

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surprised as you take a look at our
grant process. That's one of the only

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other sections that when you take a look
at how they fund pre-trial separate,

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prosecutor diversion and probation are
separate. Um, so I was kind of surprised

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to see that, you know, we still got it,
but at the same time, they did give us a

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percentage cut. Um
they also um when allocating the money

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previously had allowed for several um
budget plan items that they had taken

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away from us this time in 9%. So first
they cut us about 10% then they said any

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funds that we give to you can only go to
two things in the 100 series which for

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anybody that's budget that's just salary
infringe. So, we did lose um some

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financial um help with testing uh
because the officer uh Johan Scott who

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takes care of that grant usually uses as
much as she can to help fund our our

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testing budget by using her funds
directly for those on her case load

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test. As of previous years, we got about
$9,000

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um in that we lost that. Um but um
preparing for this uh budget cycle

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myself, Michelle and uh assistant chief
Paul have been meeting since February. I

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mean we extensive amount of planning
while we planned for our the possibility

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that our supplier tester at Gav Labs um
was asking for a possible 10% increase.

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So we added that to our general budget.
Um, and then, uh, Brian and Michelle

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were able to hold them over the barrel
and get a second year freeze on our

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prices. Um, I don't know if we'll get
that next year since we've gone two in a

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row, but we'll try. Um, so ultimately,
we kind of had a zero sum game. We I

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added the money, so we had it there, and
then we didn't get the money from VOC,

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so we should be fine um there. Um but
also having it um limited to the 100

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series is new for us. Um usually we have
some some ability to help with travel

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training in the drug testing. But other
than that, yeah, uh I think both of us

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were
spent about two days looking at every

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other county and every other brand
entity what they got, what they didn't

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get. But I think both of us said, "Yeah,
it's it's not funding for us, but we

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definitely

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Um, so obviously waiting on information
from the council, but then also um

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knowing that our amended budgets are due
by September 1st, the board doesn't meet

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again until September 12th. Do we
believe we need a vote to allow the

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executive committee to approve the
amended budgets before subitted on

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September

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My bad.

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I thought it was late. My bad.

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Sorry.

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Discussion. I'm sure there's a great
deal in in the past that we've been able

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to do the pre-expensive.

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Um
my two sense uh is that that I think is

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appropriate.
>> Do we have is the question is do we have

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to have a motion or do we think they can
just do it?

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» That's what I think just do it. We need
to

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» I would agree. Our original our original
grant request, our original budget

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finds, all of those had an approval over
anything we do now ultimately would

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probably be less than what we requested.
So I think we're operating under the

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authority of

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moving on question regarding mandatory
community therapist work for all

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benefits.
So, I wanted to bring this to the board

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because I think as part of the
participation agreement that we have, it

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is listed in our rules. Um, but it is
something that the staff's been kind of

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discussing a change on. And the reason
for that is, and I was doing research on

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it, kind of looking back into um what
does the most up-to-date research say on

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having community service work as part of
community supervision? It is split.

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there you can find studies that say is
helpful. It's part of community

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reberation things like that and then
find others that say it's not helpful.

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There's no efficacy. Um, but I think
what I was seeing when I looked it up

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kind of tracks along with what our staff
has been feeling and that is

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it works when you do it in more of a
road crew or work through where you take

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people out in a supervised fashion in a
van and you have them do something

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specific or they go to a certain place
and they do that work. Uh, which we do

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not have the ability nor the staff to
supervise.

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um when they're going on their own and
what we're basically doing is expecting

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the people at the community service work
sites to be the supervision, it doesn't

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appear to be working that well. The
problems that we've been seeing with it

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have been um either people going to
their community service work site and

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not actually working, sitting in their
cars, playing on their phones, vaping

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places they're not supposed to be
vaping, including sometimes in the

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buildings. And what we find is that the
um the folks that work at community

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service provision or community service
work sites are very largehearted

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and kind people who don't want to cause
conflict. And so when they have issues

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like this, they either don't know how to
handle it, aren't handling it, or don't

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know how to report it, or wait until
it's happened multiple times before they

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tell us that it's happening. And so what
our discussion has been is basically are

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we in fact actually allowing criminal
thinking and manipulation to continue to

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take place because we're sending folks
out to places where they instead of

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working are having their family come and
meet them and just hang out. Um and

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because we don't have the ability or the
staff at the time to go and supervise by

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ourselves, we're not sure it's being
done properly. What we're kind of

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proposing and I guess asking for the
board's approval for is to remove the

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requirement of automatic and mandatory
community service work for everyone in

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the program and use it instead for only
those who are not employed like you will

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do community service work until you get
employed. That way it's a lesser number

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for us to attempt to supervise and
verify and talk to the site supervisors

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about or as distinction um if we need it
in our as part of our graduate

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distinction process.

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I have to leave you in just a moment uh
to get back to the trial but I will say

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I wholeheartedly support that the the
research that I have seen is that it

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serves no rehabilitative purpose and
what you're describing is happening I

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think it's entirely possible that it is
a negative

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situation rather than something
positive. So I I think that that change

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is totally supported as appropriate.
I totally do not support it. I listen to

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what you said. If you want to avoid
people committing a crime with bankrupt,

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a really easy way to do it is you
basically what you're saying is you got

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people going out and acting like Julian.
The whole idea is you're not supposed to

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act like Julian. So the way you do it is
you don't you don't let them just don't

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make them do it. Work it good for your
soul. There's a component to this

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program that goes beyond simply treating
them letting them go to work. They

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should give back.
So I think we should table it because I

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do believe the other part said, okay,
these are good spirited people. They

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they don't have any right to put them in
conflict. You have all those districts.

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We just should try to find out within
the ambit of county government whether

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or not we have the ability to place
these people to do things that are

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positive in the community that give
back. Give you more of the context when

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you're talking about positive roads
working on stuff.

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So my my personal suggestion is you
table it. If indeed you have nothing

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that fits the effective thing that
works,

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I guess. Okay. All right. But on the
other hand, realistically,

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I I would never say no, you don't do
community service just because you're

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showing up and sitting your car not
doing what do you got? Use that as a

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test. might as well eliminate a lot of
other stuff people might want to do

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here.
>> I'm serious. I'm serious. It's like,

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yeah, they don't pay attention to him
and they, you know, they punch each

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other and they screw around. So, that's
not productive. Let's stop MRT. No, no,

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we need to see if we can find something
to address. I think the difference for

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us there is that MRT for example, we
have the ability to supervise and we

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don't have such problems because
>> and I very much I very much do

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understand that and I'm not trying to be
a total contrarian.

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» I am one but I'm not trying to be one
right now. But before you can, I would

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like to find out if we have something in
this camp that could be supervised in

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that fashion. Whether it's road crews,
it's other things that need to be done,

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park people, stuff like that before you
just throw it away.

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» Can I add something? That's
respectfully.

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I stopped recommending community service
for juveniles years and years and years

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ago because it is ineffective because in
order for the juveniles to do it and to

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do it successfully, I would have to go
and supervise and I simply don't have

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the time and I think that is what and
that is what um

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» I very much understand. I very much
understand that

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» and
I and I've seen

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» but until but but until you disture
yourself for instance that Brady Thomas

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isn't willing to put it out there in the
car while these people are working road

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trip something like that don't tell us
don't

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» I don't shove it I think she wants to
say that there special times for in for

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people that are 14
>> I will repeat my grandfather or 190

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to work is good for your soul and it's
good for everyone's soul.

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» I I'll give you this historically u some
of the some of your examples have have

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have uh been examined. Um we can go back
we can examine those again. Um the

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nuance to some portions of that I
absolutely agree with you Judge. It's

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one of those things that had been a
mindset um of reinstituting a community

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thought pattern of reinstituting um some
some some life expectations. Get up

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early, get out of bed, go do something,
get active. Um those kind of things for

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people who may not have before. getting
them slid into um um some some positive

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actual thought patterns that getting out
of bed, going to worry, taking care of

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themselves. Um the other issue that
she's describing, which is a bit of a

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nuance,
and yes, can be solved if we're the ones

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with the accountability.
The question is how how how thin do we

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get spread consistently being the only
ones being the accountability partner?

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The other problem is the moment that's
not us is what she describing is the

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criminal the criminal thinking creeps
back in every single officer available

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has had to do an investigation on a
forgery of community service not unlike

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a forgery of the AA sheet or one of
those other things you know where you

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look at you you allow them um that and
Miss Fogman and I discuss pretty

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regularly
And maybe more intensely in the last

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several weeks, internal and external
controls. You know, we have that

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external control, it's our expectation
and we have to kind of slide them into

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internal controls to where they're
making those positive decisions on their

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own. Coming out here, there's an
extensive amount of expectation for

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external controls in almost all aspects
of their life. this community service

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program as it stands, which you're
correct, maybe there's some other uh

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programming that we can institute starts
actually putting too much internal

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controls for themselves before they're
probably ready for it. So, they're

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making decisions they shouldn't be
before they should be allowed to make

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them. Um, if it was a road crew, yeah,
they wouldn't get a break. They wouldn't

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be able to debate. They'd be held
accountable if they weren't working. All

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the rest of that stuff. what she's
describing is, you know, um placing them

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out in some other places. And yes, she's
correct. They're all very kindhearted

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and wait for about five months before
they call us and say, you know, these

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people did this and this and this and
we're like, why didn't you call us the

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same day? We'll go ahead and handle
that. Um their accountability threshold

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is much different than what we have
expectations for out here. Um

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so it's it's a complicated uh a
complicated issue. Uh I know historic we

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have examined those. Unsure whether
somebody like the sheriff would be

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willing to to get involved and and do
the road through thing. Um but I suppose

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we could examine it if it's if it's um
the direction of the board.

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» We can definitely collect that
information. I think um I know I think

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for us when we looked at it what we saw
was basically if we had and we didn't

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have the expectation for
quite a large number of hours. And so

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part of the problem is uh having that
number of people trying to write

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throughout the community to do these
things. Um and then sometimes we have

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the problem of them uh you know
returning early saying they didn't have

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anything for me to do so that's why I
didn't get my hours done. And then that

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necessitates staff calling to say is
that true and then we have to hold the

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DHB right Steve because that wasn't true
and they just left because they wanted

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to be lazy and all these different
things. And then it ratchets all the way

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up to getting a phone call saying,
"Well, so and so had his significant

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other meet him here and we're pretty
sure they weren't having sex in the car

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in our parking lot." That's a problem.
And part of that is due to the fact that

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we have their time to their location so
restricted as a means of supervising

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program that they go, "Oh, well, if I'm
going to be out of community service,

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this is a perfect place for her to come
meet me because I don't have any other

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opportunity to
do what I want to do." basically. Um, so

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our thought being that we used it more
pointedly for those as a sanction, but

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we thought it would be inappropriate for
the reasons that you were describing.

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Um, but then also for those that are not
employed, it's a good um kind of a good

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motivator, right? You're going to work
either way. So, you should probably work

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making money instead of
>> this.

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Why does it work with people who don't
have jobs? that it doesn't work for

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people who do have jobs or that it not
work for any of them. You're just

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suggesting you continue to throw the
butt at the wall for people who don't

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have jobs.
>> I think she she answered that in the

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fact that there's motivation to when
they're work to have some benefit for

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themselves, you know, if you're out. So,
I guess the clarification is yeah, we're

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not saying no community service for
anybody. it can still be used for

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sanction.
>> I don't have to do it.

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» Okay. Then
>> and then I think secondarily what I

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would add to that is that having only a
certain group doing it for example those

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that are sanctioned or those that are
employed allows our staff much more time

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to make sure that we can supervise it
appropriately and verify make sure that

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things are going the way that they were
supposed to be going instead of trying

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to do that for every participant in the
program.

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» Listen to my simple request. I'm going
to lose it. I know it. I accept it.

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Okay. But before you do it, I would like
you to explore whether there are any

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viable options. And the reason I say
that is this. Sheriff Thomas and I do

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not see eye to eye on security. Anybody
who's been around us knows that we do

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not take at all. But here's the thing.
There has not been one single time I can

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think of that I didn't ask for ter
assistance in doing something and he

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didn't do it.
That's just been my experience with me

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and and so until you until you at least
talk to him find out a few things I I'm

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just not in favor of moving rapidly.
That sounds like a motion to table from

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» second.

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Just quickly question. Isn't there
anything they can do here?

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» Yes. Uh we often have people doing
community service work here and that has

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never been an issue. Um
are the concerns that ever

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» it can be handled.
>> Um

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the concern for us with that is that
well as the rules are written right now

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it's uh three and a half hours a week to
complete and we don't have that much

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work for each person to do three and a
half hours a week.

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Okay. Um, moving on to updates. Uh, just
wanted to give everyone an update that

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our staff, we do continue to work
through our, um, community supervision

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goals that were
developed during our time with the

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Department of Corrections, University of
Cincinnati. Uh we're still working on a

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motivational assessment, uh creating a
transition plan for participants to exit

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the program, piloting a couple
assessments, and uh creating a CQI

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program to kind of run with our
treatment providers. Uh we're going to

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be going out to um sit in on some
groups, see how they're run, and also

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giving participants
exit surveys about treatment to see how

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they felt their time of treatment went.
Um and then we're going to be sharing

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those with the treatment providers so
that they can have uh the information

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that we're also receiving.
And second one, just an update that we

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are going to be starting a six week
class targeting um parenthood issues for

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people in the criminal justice system
and that starts later this month.

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Question concern

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any other business?

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No.
Uh, entertain a motion to adjurnn.

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» So move second. Steve,
>> thank you very much.

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You have next meeting.
>> September 12th, next meeting. Thank you

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all.