1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:01,120 Oh, 2 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:03,439 >> yeah. Showing up the day after surgery, 3 00:00:03,439 --> 00:00:07,759 you get the uh gold star. 4 00:00:07,759 --> 00:00:09,920 >> Luckily, I feel good. So, 5 00:00:09,920 --> 00:00:10,480 >> good. 6 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:12,960 >> I'm glad. 7 00:00:12,960 --> 00:00:14,320 >> I've started the recording, 8 00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:15,599 commissioners. 9 00:00:15,599 --> 00:00:19,920 >> Okay, it is 9 o'clock uh [clears throat] 10 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:22,720 to welcome everyone to uh the Department 11 00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:25,519 of Commerce, Division Real Estate, Real 12 00:00:25,519 --> 00:00:28,240 Estate Commission meeting for July. 13 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:30,720 We'll go ahead and call the meeting to 14 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:32,559 order. 15 00:00:32,559 --> 00:00:35,440 Um, 16 00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:38,719 first item uh on the agenda is uh 17 00:00:38,719 --> 00:00:40,559 consideration approval of our meeting 18 00:00:40,559 --> 00:00:47,430 minutes of uh June 10th, 2026. 19 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:49,600 » Motion to approve. 20 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:53,280 >> Oops, sorry. Beat you Marie. 21 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:54,160 >> Second. 22 00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:56,079 >> Motion and a second to approve the 23 00:00:56,079 --> 00:00:59,199 minutes. All in favor? 24 00:00:59,199 --> 00:01:01,680 >> I 25 00:01:01,680 --> 00:01:05,040 >> Okay, I as well. That passes 26 00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:08,960 unanimously. Um 27 00:01:08,960 --> 00:01:13,040 moving moving quickly here. U do we have 28 00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:16,720 this is our period for public comment. 29 00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:20,080 Um do we have anybody that wishes to 30 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:21,600 make public comment address the 31 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:29,990 commission? 32 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:33,920 Um, I have a question. 33 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:38,880 I'm just wondering, um, if the 34 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:43,360 commission has re-evaluated the laws 35 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:46,399 regarding limited agency or if you're 36 00:01:46,399 --> 00:01:52,310 looking into that at all. 37 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:56,320 I I don't think that we uh we are at the 38 00:01:56,320 --> 00:01:57,600 moment. Can you give us a little more 39 00:01:57,600 --> 00:01:59,840 context to that? 40 00:01:59,840 --> 00:02:03,520 >> Yeah, just with the 41 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:08,160 increase in um well with the with the 42 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:12,480 changes that NAR made in 2024 43 00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:16,400 um with requiring an agency agreement to 44 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:19,760 show homes. Um, I'm just noticing a lot 45 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:22,720 more buyers 46 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:24,560 going online 47 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:29,840 >> and um thinking that they are 48 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:31,599 requesting a showing from the listing 49 00:02:31,599 --> 00:02:35,040 agent. They're being asked to sign a 50 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:37,360 buyer broker agreement 51 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:39,599 um in order to see homes or being 52 00:02:39,599 --> 00:02:42,000 required to sign a buyer broker 53 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:44,160 agreement in order to see homes. They're 54 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:46,640 not really necessarily 55 00:02:46,640 --> 00:02:49,120 being explained agency is from what I'm 56 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:52,800 noticing or experiencing. They're 57 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:56,480 um and then they're being directed to 58 00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:59,599 the listings of those agents that are 59 00:02:59,599 --> 00:03:02,239 capturing them off of Zillow and other 60 00:03:02,239 --> 00:03:04,879 websites as opposed to being shown homes 61 00:03:04,879 --> 00:03:07,440 that they're requesting to see. 62 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:11,200 So, I'm noticing a lot more 63 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:13,519 homes that are being sold uh with 64 00:03:13,519 --> 00:03:16,720 limited agency or dual agency. And I'm 65 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:19,599 just wondering if the way things are 66 00:03:19,599 --> 00:03:21,760 changing now with big brokerages and 67 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:24,959 teams and collaborations of companies if 68 00:03:24,959 --> 00:03:26,720 that's in the best interest of the 69 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:39,589 consumers. 70 00:03:39,599 --> 00:03:43,120 I to I totally understand uh what you're 71 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:47,440 saying, Miss Larson. And uh as a broker, 72 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:50,720 um I hate 73 00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:57,112 uh limited agency from a single agent uh in the same transaction. 74 00:03:57,112 --> 00:03:59,040 [clears throat] And yet 75 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:01,280 sometimes it's better than unrepresented 76 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:05,920 buyers because uh there's, you know, so 77 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:08,959 many things you can't do as an as a 78 00:04:08,959 --> 00:04:11,360 sellers's agent with an unrepresented 79 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:14,159 buyer that uh the public is probably 80 00:04:14,159 --> 00:04:16,079 better off sometimes being in a limited 81 00:04:16,079 --> 00:04:18,160 agency situation. And I never thought I 82 00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:20,400 would say that, but as many 83 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:22,320 unrepresented buyer transactions as 84 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:24,800 we've seen over the past year and a 85 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:27,040 half, uh 86 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:29,040 I don't know. It's a It's definitely an 87 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:33,280 issue. There's no question about it. 88 00:04:33,280 --> 00:04:37,440 >> Yeah. And I I'm just seeing a lot of 89 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:39,520 these buyers, you know, they they think 90 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:41,919 they're clicking to see, you know, 91 00:04:41,919 --> 00:04:43,600 talking to the listing agent just to see 92 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:45,440 a home. you know, they may not even be 93 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:47,440 ready to buy, but then they're being 94 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:49,840 locked into a buyer broker agreement for 95 00:04:49,840 --> 00:04:53,759 a year or, you know, and and I've had 96 00:04:53,759 --> 00:04:57,280 three occasions where it's been a friend 97 00:04:57,280 --> 00:04:58,880 or a family member or something like 98 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:01,919 that and then they come to me 99 00:05:01,919 --> 00:05:04,800 saying, you know, we want to buy a 100 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:06,560 house, but now we're we've signed 101 00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:08,080 agreement with these people because we 102 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:10,000 just wanted to see a house and now we 103 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:11,919 can't have our own representation that 104 00:05:11,919 --> 00:05:14,240 we actually wanted. 105 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:16,479 Yeah, I think that's the bigger issue in 106 00:05:16,479 --> 00:05:18,400 my mind is just that these buyers are 107 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:21,680 getting forced into signing an agreement 108 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:23,360 and locking themselves up with the 109 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:25,440 buyer's agent, which is a result of the 110 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:27,120 lawsuit. 111 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:28,960 >> I don't like doing business that way. I 112 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:30,160 want to make sure that they feel 113 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:32,960 comfortable working with me and I think 114 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:35,039 that's caused a lot of problems. 115 00:05:35,039 --> 00:05:36,400 >> Yeah. The agent doesn't know whether 116 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:38,160 they want to work with this client and 117 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:39,948 vice versa. 118 00:05:39,948 --> 00:05:40,400 >> [clears throat] 119 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:43,039 >> That's why we typically 120 00:05:43,039 --> 00:05:45,759 will do a limited showing agreement on 121 00:05:45,759 --> 00:05:48,720 that first house before we 122 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:50,320 know whether we want to sign a buyer 123 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:53,600 broker agreement and they want to. 124 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:56,880 >> Maybe a better question would be should 125 00:05:56,880 --> 00:06:01,199 the division or commission um 126 00:06:01,199 --> 00:06:03,759 come up with a standard form for that so 127 00:06:03,759 --> 00:06:05,360 that the buyer broker agreement isn't 128 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:08,000 the only option. 129 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:11,120 I know U looked seriously into that and 130 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:15,199 uh there were so many um 131 00:06:15,199 --> 00:06:19,600 so many different um issues with it and 132 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:22,560 so I know that the 133 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:24,720 uh Washington County Board put together 134 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:27,360 one um that's pretty good. That's what 135 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:32,080 our company uses. So, but yeah, I don't 136 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:33,919 know whether it's the state's obligation 137 00:06:33,919 --> 00:06:37,280 because the state this the N lawsuit 138 00:06:37,280 --> 00:06:39,520 doesn't affect the state law. 139 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:42,870 >> Right. 140 00:06:42,880 --> 00:06:45,039 » Chair Danny Naylor's got his hand 141 00:06:45,039 --> 00:06:49,830 raised. 142 00:06:49,840 --> 00:06:51,919 » Danny, go ahead. Are you 143 00:06:51,919 --> 00:06:52,400 >> Yeah. 144 00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:54,400 >> wanting to talk on this topic? 145 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:57,120 >> Yeah, this topic. Um just uh briefly, 146 00:06:57,120 --> 00:07:00,880 I've been working on a proposal for um 147 00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:03,280 the topic of a single agent limited 148 00:07:03,280 --> 00:07:05,919 agency and potentially making that 149 00:07:05,919 --> 00:07:08,319 illegal. And I think that type of action 150 00:07:08,319 --> 00:07:10,240 might help with these situations because 151 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:13,360 I think agents would be less eager to 152 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:15,599 put someone under a long-term contract 153 00:07:15,599 --> 00:07:18,000 if they didn't have that limited agency 154 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:20,880 possibility. Um I've got a lot more to 155 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:22,479 talk about on that topic, but I didn't 156 00:07:22,479 --> 00:07:24,000 have it all prepared today. I just 157 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:25,520 wanted to mention that since it was 158 00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:27,840 brought up. 159 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:31,440 >> Okay. Uh Amanda Men and all is this on 160 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:32,720 the same topic? 161 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:36,240 >> Yes. Thank you, um chair. So, um I think 162 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:39,440 that if the commission were ever to um 163 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:42,560 look at limited agency and right here, 164 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:44,479 the way that Miss Larson's raising it, I 165 00:07:44,479 --> 00:07:46,240 don't think it really is the limited 166 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:48,160 agency that's the problem. um the 167 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:50,479 commission would need to um consider how 168 00:07:50,479 --> 00:07:52,560 that would disproportionately affect the 169 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:54,720 rural communities because in the rural 170 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:57,919 communities I mean essentially if if an 171 00:07:57,919 --> 00:08:01,039 agent has a buyer broker and can not 172 00:08:01,039 --> 00:08:03,759 show that buyer their own listings 173 00:08:03,759 --> 00:08:06,639 that's that's only harming the consumer. 174 00:08:06,639 --> 00:08:08,560 So I just think that that needs to 175 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:10,160 really be considered because you know in 176 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:12,160 Salt Lake it's a little bit different 177 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:14,560 but um you know in somewhere in a small 178 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:16,639 town like Monaceel 179 00:08:16,639 --> 00:08:20,080 that would have an extraordinary effect 180 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:22,720 and harm on the consumer. So 181 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:25,440 >> I I think that's a a very valid point. 182 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:28,720 Thank you for that Miss Menhal. Um, and 183 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:30,879 I don't know 184 00:08:30,879 --> 00:08:32,479 that 185 00:08:32,479 --> 00:08:35,680 there's an inherent problem with limited 186 00:08:35,680 --> 00:08:38,320 agency. I think limited agency actually 187 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:42,000 spells out pretty well uh the the buyer 188 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:43,839 obligations 189 00:08:43,839 --> 00:08:46,080 uh or or the agent obligations to both 190 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:49,600 parties. Um 191 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:51,839 maybe there needs to be some consumer 192 00:08:51,839 --> 00:08:53,839 education. 193 00:08:53,839 --> 00:08:58,720 Uh, I mean, I I I see more sophisticated 194 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:01,360 uh buyers 195 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:03,600 saying, you know, hey, we want to see 196 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:06,959 this property uh specifically and we 197 00:09:06,959 --> 00:09:10,800 only want to sign a property specific uh 198 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:13,680 buyer broker agreement. Um, so I think 199 00:09:13,680 --> 00:09:16,480 there's some awareness there. Um, you 200 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:18,480 know, I think it's a great great topic 201 00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:22,800 and something to consider. Um I but I 202 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:30,800 I'm I'm not sure I'm really inclined to look at at banning limited agency. Um 203 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:33,760 and I don't know that we can require 204 00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:34,880 I mean you know we're dealing with 205 00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:38,160 national websites and it is you know it 206 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:40,320 certainly is a challenge. I mean, I I 207 00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:44,320 just had a similar situation where 208 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:46,080 uh 209 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:49,120 past client of mine contacted me about a 210 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:51,440 house that his daughter was interested 211 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:53,360 in and and after a little bit of 212 00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:58,000 discussion, I I said, "Well, has your daughter seen the house?" "Yes, 213 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:01,360 she's seen it. Did she sign anything?" 214 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:03,200 "Well, I'll have to check." And it it 215 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:05,920 happened to be through uh through 216 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:09,040 Zillow. And uh 217 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:10,320 it was interesting because they ended up 218 00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:12,560 making an offer, signing by book 219 00:10:12,560 --> 00:10:15,600 agreement, making an offer. Uh the dad 220 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:18,160 got involved. These were firsttime 221 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:19,760 buyers. 222 00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:22,160 The house really didn't meet their needs 223 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:23,519 and it was an area that they were 224 00:10:23,519 --> 00:10:29,839 unfamiliar with and they subsequently uh cancelled the transaction. But it it 225 00:10:29,839 --> 00:10:32,079 certainly highlights this this exact 226 00:10:32,079 --> 00:10:34,560 situation. Uh 227 00:10:34,560 --> 00:10:37,920 so, you know, it it it's probably one of 228 00:10:37,920 --> 00:10:39,519 the 229 00:10:39,519 --> 00:10:41,440 not necessarily unintended consequences, 230 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:43,360 but one of the problematic consequences 231 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:45,760 of of of what's happened over the last 232 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:49,040 couple years of the market. So, 233 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:50,399 >> is there any Go ahead, Commissioner 234 00:10:50,399 --> 00:10:50,720 Smith. 235 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:54,800 >> Yeah. As much as I uh dislike um single 236 00:10:54,800 --> 00:10:57,680 agent limited agency, most of the time, 237 00:10:57,680 --> 00:11:00,959 there are definitely times when it is um 238 00:11:00,959 --> 00:11:03,200 when it is the right thing to do. Um 239 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:05,440 someone calls that you have a 240 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:07,360 relationship and they see that you just 241 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:09,279 listed such and such property and you 242 00:11:09,279 --> 00:11:11,200 have rep you have relationships with 243 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:14,560 both parties uh already. Um I think 244 00:11:14,560 --> 00:11:17,200 that's one good example. like Amanda 245 00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:20,000 said, the the rural areas, it's very 246 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:23,839 common um where there are lots fewer 247 00:11:23,839 --> 00:11:27,760 agents to to see that uh scenario. So, 248 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:29,519 yeah, I'm not inclined while I'm a 249 00:11:29,519 --> 00:11:37,360 commissioner to to u make dual agency um 250 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:40,320 illegal like some states have. I think 251 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:43,600 they they have seen some some problems 252 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:47,360 with that since doing that. And uh so 253 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:53,519 I'm probably not inclined as much as I dislike it, but u definitely 254 00:11:53,519 --> 00:11:56,000 issues that need to be more thoroughly 255 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:58,880 vetted for sure since the N lawsuit 256 00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:00,079 settlement. 257 00:12:00,079 --> 00:12:02,000 >> Yeah, I think a a lot more of the 258 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:03,600 concern that I'm seeing I'm in St. 259 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:06,399 George [clears throat] for the most part 260 00:12:06,399 --> 00:12:08,320 and a lot of the concern I'm seeing 261 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:10,639 especially with the um experiences that 262 00:12:10,639 --> 00:12:14,560 we we've had is not necessarily a single 263 00:12:14,560 --> 00:12:16,720 agent limited agency but within the 264 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:20,000 brokerage or company um where it's 265 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:21,680 they're just passing them on to their 266 00:12:21,680 --> 00:12:24,160 team and where there's these bigger 267 00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:26,053 teams that are basically a brokerage. 268 00:12:26,053 --> 00:12:27,279 [laughter] 269 00:12:27,279 --> 00:12:29,600 um you know, they're they're kind of 270 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:31,920 keeping things in house and and 271 00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:33,839 directing the buyers from the home that 272 00:12:33,839 --> 00:12:37,519 they want to see to a team or a 273 00:12:37,519 --> 00:12:39,600 brokerage listing. 274 00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:42,480 And so it's more like limited agency 275 00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:45,200 within a brokerage than just like a 276 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:46,959 single agent. 277 00:12:46,959 --> 00:12:49,200 Um, but definitely there needs to be 278 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:51,279 more education I think for the 279 00:12:51,279 --> 00:12:54,560 consumers, especially when they're being 280 00:12:54,560 --> 00:12:58,240 um I I feel misled, you know, when they 281 00:12:58,240 --> 00:12:59,760 think that they're clicking on a listing 282 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:01,519 to see it through the listing agent and 283 00:13:01,519 --> 00:13:04,480 then they're being taken somewhere else. 284 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:07,519 Um, are you seeing more complaints with 285 00:13:07,519 --> 00:13:10,800 the division as far as that goes, like 286 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:15,990 from agents or consumers? 287 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:19,040 I I can comment on that. I um so I 288 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:20,639 appreciate you bringing this up, Miss 289 00:13:20,639 --> 00:13:23,519 Larson, because um I was recently 290 00:13:23,519 --> 00:13:24,959 reading something. I want to say it 291 00:13:24,959 --> 00:13:26,320 might have been from the Consumer 292 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:28,560 Federation of America. I'm not sure 293 00:13:28,560 --> 00:13:31,440 about this. Um, I I'm pretty sure what 294 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:32,880 you're talking about is when when they 295 00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:35,920 go on a site and they see a home they 296 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:38,079 like and they think that when they click 297 00:13:38,079 --> 00:13:39,920 to speak with an agent that's the 298 00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:42,800 listing agent, but in fact it is an 299 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:43,839 agent seeking [clears throat] to 300 00:13:43,839 --> 00:13:47,040 represent a buyer um who has maybe paid 301 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:50,240 some sort of fee to to the service. Um, 302 00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:52,240 say that this is something we're looking 303 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:53,839 at. I'm not sure that we've received 304 00:13:53,839 --> 00:14:00,959 complaints because um I don't know how much consumers are realizing what's 305 00:14:00,959 --> 00:14:04,000 happening there. Um I think inherently 306 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:06,560 they they're sensing like, "Oh, I 307 00:14:06,560 --> 00:14:07,839 thought I was going to talk to the 308 00:14:07,839 --> 00:14:12,240 person who had listed this property, but they can't really sense So, it's 309 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:13,920 definitely something on our radar just 310 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:17,839 because um you know, we we want 311 00:14:17,839 --> 00:14:20,240 consumers um you know, if they want 312 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:21,680 representation, we want to make sure 313 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:24,720 that they're able to find licensed um 314 00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:27,120 individuals to help represent them. Um 315 00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:31,839 but we don't want them to um be kind of 316 00:14:31,839 --> 00:14:33,839 maybe misled a little bit into who 317 00:14:33,839 --> 00:14:36,560 they're actually reaching out to. So, 318 00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:38,800 um, the short answer is I'm not sure 319 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:40,480 that we've seen a lot of complaints, but 320 00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:41,519 it's definitely something on the 321 00:14:41,519 --> 00:14:44,079 division's radar. 322 00:14:44,079 --> 00:14:46,959 >> It it might be interesting to look at it 323 00:14:46,959 --> 00:14:50,320 from a from a standpoint of are those 324 00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:53,120 websites engaging in deceptive 325 00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:59,110 practices. 326 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:01,519 Yeah, the opposite side of that of that 327 00:15:01,519 --> 00:15:04,399 whole scenario is 328 00:15:04,399 --> 00:15:09,600 um all idx solutions go away because 329 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:13,440 when you look at at Zillow or Realtor or 330 00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:16,079 any of these other big portals, they all 331 00:15:16,079 --> 00:15:19,199 have on there marketed by such and such, 332 00:15:19,199 --> 00:15:21,360 which is the requirement for an idx 333 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:25,120 solution. And uh so more consumer 334 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:27,920 awareness is probably probably the 335 00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:29,600 answer because I don't think any of us 336 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:32,560 want to to lose all of our idx solutions 337 00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:34,959 out there 338 00:15:34,959 --> 00:15:37,839 >> and it may be you know on a on a broader 339 00:15:37,839 --> 00:15:44,240 scale an M MLS policy issue with N 340 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:46,160 out outside of [clears throat] you know 341 00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:48,880 state licensing law. 342 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:51,120 So, 343 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:52,959 >> okay. Thank you. 344 00:15:52,959 --> 00:15:54,000 >> Thanks for bringing that to our 345 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:56,079 attention, Mson. 346 00:15:56,079 --> 00:15:58,560 Any other comments from uh from the 347 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:01,680 public at this time? 348 00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:05,199 Uh let's see. I think we have Mike 349 00:16:05,199 --> 00:16:07,759 Selco. 350 00:16:07,759 --> 00:16:10,800 >> Yes, that's correct. [clears throat] 351 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:11,839 Go ahead. 352 00:16:11,839 --> 00:16:13,600 >> Hi, my name is Michael Selco. I'm a 353 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:15,199 homeowner in Salt Lake County. On 354 00:16:15,199 --> 00:16:17,600 December 9th, 2025, I filed a complaint 355 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:19,360 with Division of Real Estate against a 356 00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:21,680 licensed associate broker who 357 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:23,279 participated in what I believe is an 358 00:16:23,279 --> 00:16:26,320 unlawful foreclosure rescue transaction. 359 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:28,320 The scheme is the classic sale leaseback 360 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:30,560 model. Same type of scheme that this 361 00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:33,120 division warned licences about in its Q4 362 00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:35,680 2023 newsletter just 6 months before my 363 00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:37,680 transaction occurred. The division 364 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:39,040 followed that warning with another one 365 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:42,160 in its Q1 2025 newsletter specifically 366 00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:44,240 addressing foreclosure rescue and equity 367 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:46,320 stripping schemes. Despite those 368 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:48,399 warnings, I was one of the victims. Uh I 369 00:16:48,399 --> 00:16:50,399 submitted contracts that were drafted by 370 00:16:50,399 --> 00:16:52,399 the respondents themselves, emails, 371 00:16:52,399 --> 00:16:55,759 docuign, court filings, sworn affidavit 372 00:16:55,759 --> 00:16:58,240 under penalty of perjury, all proving 373 00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:01,279 the statutory violation. Um, and I've 374 00:17:01,279 --> 00:17:03,040 even submitted sworn testimony from 375 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:05,520 third district court um by the 376 00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:08,240 respondent where she admits 377 00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:10,240 um violating every element of the 378 00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:13,199 statute. Um, since my filing, I've 379 00:17:13,199 --> 00:17:15,360 identified 10 similar transactions 380 00:17:15,360 --> 00:17:17,600 throughout the state um all with the 381 00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:19,520 same boilerplate 382 00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:21,919 uh contracts, all the same actors, same 383 00:17:21,919 --> 00:17:24,000 participants uh and the same forclosure 384 00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:26,480 rescue structure. I was the second of 385 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:29,280 those 10 who was evicted. Since I filed 386 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:31,440 my complaint with this division, three 387 00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:33,520 additional homeowners have been evicted. 388 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:35,360 So that brings the total to five. So 389 00:17:35,360 --> 00:17:37,039 half of half of the ones that I found 390 00:17:37,039 --> 00:17:40,640 have now been evicted. Um 391 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:43,600 so yesterday I asked uh director for an 392 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:45,039 update. She informed me investigation 393 00:17:45,039 --> 00:17:46,960 remains ongoing. Uh and you haven't 394 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:49,200 reached any conclusions and it's not 395 00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:52,480 appropriate for comment. I I guess I I 396 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:54,000 don't understand that but I'll accept 397 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:56,880 it. Um, but I also want to point out 398 00:17:56,880 --> 00:17:58,880 that the legislature anticipated this 399 00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:01,200 situation where ongoing harm to the 400 00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:04,320 public is occurring. Um, in Utah code 401 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:07,520 section 61-2F-407, 402 00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:09,200 it specifically provides that the 403 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:11,520 director shall issue a cease and desist 404 00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:14,000 order when the director has reason to 405 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:16,960 believe that a person has been engaging 406 00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:19,679 or is engaging or is about to engage in 407 00:18:19,679 --> 00:18:22,640 conduct violating the act and that when 408 00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:24,000 stopping the act is in the public 409 00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:26,559 interest. The legislature didn't use the 410 00:18:26,559 --> 00:18:29,120 word may. It uses the word shall and in 411 00:18:29,120 --> 00:18:32,400 statutory language for Utah that means 412 00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:35,440 uh shall means must. Um so in my opinion 413 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:37,120 the legislature understood something 414 00:18:37,120 --> 00:18:40,000 fundamental there irreparable harm is 415 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:41,520 happening to these homeowners and these 416 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:43,280 families who are being evicted and 417 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:45,919 stripped of their equity um while this 418 00:18:45,919 --> 00:18:48,960 investigation is ongoing and irreparable 419 00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:51,280 harm occurs when they get evicted. You 420 00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:53,360 can't put you can't put all those pieces 421 00:18:53,360 --> 00:18:56,160 back together later. 422 00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:57,520 though this is exactly why the 423 00:18:57,520 --> 00:18:59,440 legislature created the cease and desist 424 00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:01,919 authority for the director. Um the 425 00:19:01,919 --> 00:19:03,360 mission of the division of real estate 426 00:19:03,360 --> 00:19:05,039 is to protect the public. The 427 00:19:05,039 --> 00:19:07,520 legislature has given the director um 428 00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:11,760 the power to stop these these evictions 429 00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:14,080 and stop the enforcement and stop the 430 00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:16,559 damage from happening. So my question to 431 00:19:16,559 --> 00:19:18,720 the commission is pretty simple. There's 432 00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:20,960 seven months of investigation, 10 433 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:23,039 similar transactions. 434 00:19:23,039 --> 00:19:25,039 um the respondent's own contracts, 435 00:19:25,039 --> 00:19:26,880 communications, sworn affidavit in 436 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:31,360 courts of law, all all all 437 00:19:31,360 --> 00:19:33,200 um identify that every element of the 438 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:36,880 statute has been violated. Um and people 439 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:39,200 continue to lose their homes. And so at 440 00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:40,960 what point, how many more people need to 441 00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:42,559 lose their homes before this division 442 00:19:42,559 --> 00:19:46,000 will step in and stop it? Um and so 443 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:47,840 that's really my question. Or how much 444 00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:50,799 evidence is is necessary? 445 00:19:50,799 --> 00:19:52,080 Thank you. 446 00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:55,039 Mr. Sco. 447 00:19:55,039 --> 00:19:58,880 Um, director, do you want to 448 00:19:58,880 --> 00:19:59,280 Yes. 449 00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:00,880 >> on 450 00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:03,440 and I don't Elliot uh with the AG's 451 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:06,523 office needs to jump in at this point or 452 00:20:06,523 --> 00:20:07,360 [clears throat] 453 00:20:07,360 --> 00:20:12,880 >> Thank you, Chair Southwick. So, um and I want to thank Mr. Selco for for 454 00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:16,400 his public comment. Um as he stated, we 455 00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:20,000 have corresponded via email. Uh there is 456 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:23,600 a pending investigation into Mr. Selco's 457 00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:26,000 complaint. It is assigned to 458 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:29,840 investigator Martenddale um who and uh 459 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:32,000 chief investigator Kalin has been 460 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:36,159 involved in that process as well. Um I 461 00:20:36,159 --> 00:20:40,320 would say at this point no options in 462 00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:43,919 terms of our legal recourse avenues have 463 00:20:43,919 --> 00:20:47,840 been ruled out. Um Mr. Selco mentions 464 00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:50,720 the cease and desist power that the 465 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:54,720 director holds. Um and so while I can't 466 00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:58,159 opine as to um 467 00:20:58,159 --> 00:21:01,039 our deliberative process in Mr. Celco's 468 00:21:01,039 --> 00:21:03,520 specific case. Um I can just state 469 00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:05,280 generally uh the way the cease and 470 00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:07,840 desist power works is that the director 471 00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:10,080 can issue an order to someone um 472 00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:12,880 basically to cease and desist violating 473 00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:16,000 um either a provision of the act or the 474 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:19,760 whole act and its associated rules. um 475 00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:22,799 that uh any proceeding following that 476 00:21:22,799 --> 00:21:24,640 the issuance of the cease and desist is 477 00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:27,760 a formal proceeding versus an informal 478 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:30,559 and a respondent has 10 days within 479 00:21:30,559 --> 00:21:35,840 which to request a hearing. Um and so uh 480 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:37,760 that hearing goes before the commission 481 00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:39,760 just like our other hearings and if the 482 00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:42,240 order is upheld the respondant is 483 00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:45,120 required to continue to comply. Um the 484 00:21:45,120 --> 00:21:46,640 important thing about a cease and desist 485 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:51,280 order is that um it it is immediately 486 00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:53,679 effective as soon as I issue that order. 487 00:21:53,679 --> 00:21:57,440 It is not um stayed or or held off 488 00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:01,120 pending a hearing. It is in place. Um 489 00:22:01,120 --> 00:22:03,440 which the division appreciates is a is a 490 00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:06,960 very um serious exercise of governmental 491 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:09,520 power. Um again, not saying it's not 492 00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:11,360 appropriate in Mr. Selco's complaint, 493 00:22:11,360 --> 00:22:13,520 but I wanted to make sure the commission 494 00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:15,600 um had a picture of that authority 495 00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:17,280 because I don't know how many times the 496 00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:21,360 division has used it in the past. Um if 497 00:22:21,360 --> 00:22:23,280 the order is upheld and a respondent 498 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:27,200 continues to uh engage in the conduct or 499 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:28,880 um 500 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:31,280 otherwise not comply with the order, the 501 00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:33,919 division has the power to seek recourse 502 00:22:33,919 --> 00:22:36,960 in court, which is um unlike some other 503 00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:39,120 divisions. uh division of real estate 504 00:22:39,120 --> 00:22:42,480 doesn't typically originate actions in 505 00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:45,280 civil court. Um but that's one avenue um 506 00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:47,440 for us if the respondent continues to 507 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:50,640 violate. Um something important um is 508 00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:54,640 that what is not within our power is to 509 00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:58,559 um step into a proceeding like an 510 00:22:58,559 --> 00:23:01,200 eviction proceeding and halt that 511 00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:03,520 proceeding. The division can't enter 512 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:06,480 into that civil case and stop that. um 513 00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:09,280 we can order individuals to stop 514 00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:10,880 violations 515 00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:14,559 um but but uh there is a limit to um 516 00:23:14,559 --> 00:23:18,400 what we are able to um prevent or halt 517 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:21,440 on on the civil lawsuit side. So um 518 00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:22,960 happy to answer any questions the 519 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:24,400 commission has but I hope that 520 00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:27,200 background is is at least helpful. Um 521 00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:29,600 and again thank you Mr. Selco for for 522 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:33,669 your comment 523 00:23:33,679 --> 00:23:35,840 » Mr. Clark, the Attorney General's 524 00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:36,559 office. 525 00:23:36,559 --> 00:23:38,320 >> Thanks. Yeah, I just wanted to say so, 526 00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:40,240 uh, Mr. Selco, my name is Elliot Clark. 527 00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:41,919 I'm the assistant attorney general who 528 00:23:41,919 --> 00:23:44,480 represents the commission. And so within 529 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:46,480 title 61, you'll see there's a division 530 00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:49,039 of respons responsibilities between the 531 00:23:49,039 --> 00:23:51,360 division and the commission. And so 532 00:23:51,360 --> 00:23:52,640 that's sort of the situation we're 533 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:54,000 dealing with. This is a commission 534 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:56,720 meeting. Um, as far as I'm aware, this 535 00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:58,400 hasn't ended up on the commission's 536 00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:02,400 plate yet, which is why, you know, it's still working through the process 537 00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:05,120 on the division side. Um, if it ends up 538 00:24:05,120 --> 00:24:07,200 on the commission's agenda after that 539 00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:09,919 process, we'll address it then. But, um, 540 00:24:09,919 --> 00:24:11,600 and of course, you're welcome to make 541 00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:13,360 public comment as you have, but at this 542 00:24:13,360 --> 00:24:14,400 point, the commission doesn't really 543 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:16,240 have anything more to say other than 544 00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:17,760 that. We'll just see how it plays out on 545 00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:19,279 the division side, and if we deal with 546 00:24:19,279 --> 00:24:22,320 it at a later date, you'll be made aware 547 00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:30,070 it'll be on the agenda. 548 00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:33,279 Thank you, Elliot. Um, 549 00:24:33,279 --> 00:24:38,400 you know, I I guess as um 550 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:40,320 you know, I 551 00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:42,400 speaking for myself, I guess my request 552 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:46,000 would simply be that uh this particular 553 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:47,919 investigation 554 00:24:47,919 --> 00:24:50,640 be given the highest priority. So we I 555 00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:55,279 mean clearly it's uh 556 00:24:55,279 --> 00:24:58,640 indicates some some some serious issues 557 00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:02,789 and and uh 558 00:25:02,799 --> 00:25:04,559 need for protection of the public. So if 559 00:25:04,559 --> 00:25:07,520 we can, you know, Mr. Martindell and and 560 00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:11,120 the staff can make it a top priority, we 561 00:25:11,120 --> 00:25:12,880 I think we would the commission would 562 00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:20,789 appreciate that. 563 00:25:20,799 --> 00:25:22,240 Mr. Sco, I don't know if you have any 564 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:23,840 further comment or 565 00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:25,760 >> No, I appreciate it. I just I wanted to 566 00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:28,320 raise it um raise it and see. I 567 00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:30,720 understand um the director's points 568 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:32,400 about that's a serious the cease and 569 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:36,320 desist is a serious use of authority. Um 570 00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:39,279 at the same time, for us homeowners who 571 00:25:39,279 --> 00:25:41,039 are having our lives ripped apart, it's 572 00:25:41,039 --> 00:25:45,039 pretty serious. Um and we we can't can't 573 00:25:45,039 --> 00:25:48,640 get it back. And so, um, anyway, so I 574 00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:50,480 understand Elliot's point that it's not 575 00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:53,200 on the commission's plate yet. So, um, I 576 00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:54,400 guess I don't have any other option to 577 00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:56,240 wait and see. I would also just suggest 578 00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:58,640 the court system. Um, first of all, most 579 00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:00,880 of the victims, if you're in a 580 00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:02,640 foreclosure rescue, you don't have money 581 00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:05,120 to go file civil suit. And so, the 582 00:26:05,120 --> 00:26:07,919 offenders know that. Um, I have been 583 00:26:07,919 --> 00:26:11,039 able to do that. And so, but the court 584 00:26:11,039 --> 00:26:13,120 um the courts also even in the eviction 585 00:26:13,120 --> 00:26:14,880 hearing, they look to the division and 586 00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:16,400 say, "Hey, this is for the division to 587 00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:19,039 go police." And so, we're all just kind 588 00:26:19,039 --> 00:26:20,880 of standing here looking and and saying, 589 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:23,600 "When when will the division act?" Um I 590 00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:25,120 know in the last commission meeting 591 00:26:25,120 --> 00:26:27,200 there was a there was a hearing or 592 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:29,760 whatever for for somebody for tax fraud. 593 00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:32,640 Um I think about the same time frame. I 594 00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:34,400 would just suggest this is a a serious 595 00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:36,080 issue and if we could get it get it 596 00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:37,760 raised up and moved along quickly that 597 00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:40,720 would that would help us us public who 598 00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:42,880 are hoping you guys will protect us. 599 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:44,320 >> So thank you. I appreciate it. 600 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:45,600 >> Thank you. Thank you for bringing this 601 00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:49,750 to our attention. 602 00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:52,320 Is there any anyone else wishing to 603 00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:54,080 address the commission during our public 604 00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:57,669 comment period? 605 00:26:57,679 --> 00:27:00,799 Seeing none, uh, we will move to our 606 00:27:00,799 --> 00:27:04,080 division section reports and start with 607 00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:06,559 director Vette. 608 00:27:06,559 --> 00:27:08,720 >> Thank you, chair, and good morning, 609 00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:11,200 commissioners. It's great to see y'all. 610 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:13,360 Um, so the first thing I wanted to touch 611 00:27:13,360 --> 00:27:16,240 on is that the division has received 612 00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:19,200 approval from the Department of Commerce 613 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:23,120 to hire a office specialist who will be 614 00:27:23,120 --> 00:27:25,440 a real estate licensing specialist on a 615 00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:27,440 temporary basis. So right now we're 616 00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:30,000 looking at a duration of about 3 to 6 617 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:34,480 months. Um we as as I think the 618 00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:36,240 commission knows uh the division has 619 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:40,240 received some um feedback um that we 620 00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:42,640 appreciate. I I do want to thank uh 621 00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:45,840 those licences and stakeholders who have 622 00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:48,159 reached out to us to help us uh 623 00:27:48,159 --> 00:27:52,000 understand um how a licensing processing 624 00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:55,200 timeline is impacting them especially in 625 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:58,320 um today's economy. Um and because we 626 00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:00,240 received that candid feedback, we were 627 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:03,039 able to uh work with the department on 628 00:28:03,039 --> 00:28:06,480 some potential solutions. Um and one of 629 00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:08,799 those is the hiring of this office 630 00:28:08,799 --> 00:28:12,880 specialist. Um, so Laurel North, our 631 00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:14,880 licensing and education manager, has 632 00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:18,000 gotten that job posted. Um, it can be 633 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:21,120 found uh by anyone interested by going 634 00:28:21,120 --> 00:28:27,190 to dhrm.utah.gov 635 00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:28,960 and then if people scroll down, they can 636 00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:32,960 click search jobs and it's job posting 637 00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:35,279 1748. 638 00:28:35,279 --> 00:28:37,520 Um, and I believe it the title of it is 639 00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:42,080 real estate licensing specialist. Um, it 640 00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:44,799 is a pretty tight application window. It 641 00:28:44,799 --> 00:28:47,760 closes um, I believe at midnight 642 00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:52,320 tomorrow on the 16th. And so um, we are 643 00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:55,039 hoping uh, to get this person hired 644 00:28:55,039 --> 00:28:57,919 quickly. Um, and like I said, the hope 645 00:28:57,919 --> 00:28:59,840 is that they'll they'll stay with us for 646 00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:03,440 at least 3 to six months. um and to help 647 00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:07,279 us speed up um our processing times and 648 00:29:07,279 --> 00:29:09,919 our ability to handle [clears throat] 649 00:29:09,919 --> 00:29:14,320 volume of applications. So um again we 650 00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:17,679 are we uh are very thankful for the 651 00:29:17,679 --> 00:29:19,840 candid feedback we've received and and 652 00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:21,919 we are uh doing our best to respond to 653 00:29:21,919 --> 00:29:24,320 it and provide um some solutions for 654 00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:26,240 lences. 655 00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:28,480 Um, I just wanted to touch on that the 656 00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:30,480 division will be closed for the Pioneer 657 00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:34,720 holiday on the 24th. Um, as I think most 658 00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:36,799 of you know, I came to Utah from out of 659 00:29:36,799 --> 00:29:38,399 state and so Pioneer Day was a new 660 00:29:38,399 --> 00:29:40,960 holiday to me. So, um, in case any 661 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:43,600 members of the public um, are wondering, 662 00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:45,919 we will be closed on that day. So, um, 663 00:29:45,919 --> 00:29:48,720 but we will, um, open for business the 664 00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:52,960 next business day that occurs. Um 665 00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:55,200 I wanted to touch also on the topic of 666 00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:59,120 fees. Um and so I understand that per 667 00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:04,000 statute um the uh commission um works 668 00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:06,320 with the division um and concurs on 669 00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:09,919 setting fees. Um we have a new license 670 00:30:09,919 --> 00:30:12,480 coming online in January, the property 671 00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:15,840 manager license. And so we need to set 672 00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:17,840 fees for that so that when we start 673 00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:20,159 accepting applications, we have 674 00:30:20,159 --> 00:30:23,440 associated fees. Um [clears throat] we 675 00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:25,600 know how that works on our end through a 676 00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:27,440 law called the budgetary procedures act. 677 00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:30,320 It involves a public fee hearing. Um but 678 00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:31,840 I was wondering if anyone on the 679 00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:35,840 commission um had any preference for how 680 00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:38,320 we handle y'all's concurrence on those 681 00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:42,640 fees. Um the fee hearing is set for July 682 00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:45,840 27th. So, I was thinking if if that 683 00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:47,600 hearing goes well about adding it to 684 00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:49,520 your August agenda for the commission's 685 00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:51,051 ratification. 686 00:30:51,051 --> 00:30:52,799 [snorts] Um, 687 00:30:52,799 --> 00:30:55,760 I believe, if I'm remembering correctly, 688 00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:59,120 um, we have set the fees initially or 689 00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:01,360 hope to set them at the same cost for a 690 00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:05,520 sales agent application. Um, because we 691 00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:07,520 anticipate it will take about the same 692 00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:10,399 amount of work to process. Um, that 693 00:31:10,399 --> 00:31:12,799 being said, once we start the licensing 694 00:31:12,799 --> 00:31:14,480 program, we will have a better idea of 695 00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:16,480 what the appropriate fee is and we can 696 00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:19,200 revisit it as we know what the licency 697 00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:21,440 pool will be. Um, because you can't 698 00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:24,000 really adequately calibrate a fee until 699 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:26,320 you know how many applicants or renewals 700 00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:28,960 you're going to have. Um, so all that 701 00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:30,399 being said, does that sound like a good 702 00:31:30,399 --> 00:31:33,039 plan to the commission? Is that is that 703 00:31:33,039 --> 00:31:34,480 really different from what y'all have 704 00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:36,320 done in the past? I I I just want to 705 00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:38,399 make sure we're um we're doing it right 706 00:31:38,399 --> 00:31:41,120 from y'all's perspective. 707 00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:43,039 >> I'm not I'm I can't remember last time 708 00:31:43,039 --> 00:31:45,519 we actually addressed fees, so I'm not 709 00:31:45,519 --> 00:31:47,840 sure 710 00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:50,240 uh [clears throat] if or when the last 711 00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:53,760 time was there was any uh change to 712 00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:56,240 fees. So, 713 00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:59,600 given it's been a while, I you know, I 714 00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:01,840 wonder if it's appropriate to look 715 00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:05,120 across the board at uh 716 00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:12,880 whether our current fees meet uh meet the uh the cost of the division and and if there further review that's 717 00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:16,000 needed. But I I I think it it's probably 718 00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:18,480 appropriate to just plan on having it on 719 00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:22,320 our next uh agenda, 720 00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:24,640 >> next meeting agenda. That sounds great 721 00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:26,960 and I agree with you, chair. I think um 722 00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:29,440 the department's engaged overall in a 723 00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:31,120 cost accounting project that will help 724 00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:33,360 us better calibrate fees. So I 725 00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:36,320 anticipate that in the future that will 726 00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:38,000 be something that we can revisit with 727 00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:40,480 the commission kind of an overview of do 728 00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:42,080 all of these fees are they correctly 729 00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:44,559 calibrated? If possible, I'll also try 730 00:32:44,559 --> 00:32:46,559 to have our finance director join us at 731 00:32:46,559 --> 00:32:48,720 your next meeting in case y'all have any 732 00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:51,279 more indepth questions about fees and 733 00:32:51,279 --> 00:32:54,000 things like that just as a resource. So, 734 00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:58,080 um, we'll plan to proceed that way. 735 00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:00,240 >> Commissioner Mlone. 736 00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:02,240 >> Yes. Thank you. I think it might be 737 00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:04,080 helpful if during that meeting if we 738 00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:07,039 have those current fees available. Um, I 739 00:33:07,039 --> 00:33:08,960 I'm not aware of those fees. So, that 740 00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:11,440 might be helpful information as we're 741 00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:13,600 moving forward and approving the fees 742 00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:17,360 for the property management licensing. 743 00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:19,519 >> Thank you so much. I will put together a 744 00:33:19,519 --> 00:33:21,440 fee schedule document for you all so 745 00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:23,840 you've got all of the fees that you can 746 00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:25,919 look at, not just what we're proposing 747 00:33:25,919 --> 00:33:28,000 for property management. 748 00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:33,360 >> And and and just giving the given the staffing challenges that we've we've 749 00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:35,600 heard about, are we you know, are these 750 00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:38,559 current fees sufficient or should we be 751 00:33:38,559 --> 00:33:40,399 looking at at trying to add additional 752 00:33:40,399 --> 00:33:44,640 staff to to serve the lences? 753 00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:45,279 >> Absolutely. 754 00:33:45,279 --> 00:33:48,799 >> Timely fashion. So, 755 00:33:48,799 --> 00:33:51,679 >> okay. 756 00:33:51,679 --> 00:33:55,600 >> Thank you. 757 00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:58,080 Um, and I think that's all I had for 758 00:33:58,080 --> 00:33:59,919 y'all today, but I'm happy to answer any 759 00:33:59,919 --> 00:34:02,399 questions on that or those topics or any 760 00:34:02,399 --> 00:34:05,669 other. 761 00:34:05,679 --> 00:34:12,480 » Okay. Thank you. Guess we we'll move forward then u and hear from Laurel 762 00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:15,599 North on licensing and education. We've 763 00:34:15,599 --> 00:34:19,119 got a couple items uh showing on on our 764 00:34:19,119 --> 00:34:24,550 agenda with her. 765 00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:25,839 » Good morning. Thank you, Chair 766 00:34:25,839 --> 00:34:28,159 Southwick, and good morning, Commission. 767 00:34:28,159 --> 00:34:30,480 I popped our current fee schedule in the 768 00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:32,960 notes if you want to have a heads up on 769 00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:35,280 what our current fees are. Uh just so 770 00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:36,960 you can have a look at those before 771 00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:40,639 August meetings, but um 772 00:34:40,639 --> 00:34:42,320 you have any questions about that, have 773 00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:44,079 them ready for us on August would be 774 00:34:44,079 --> 00:34:47,520 great. Um I do have a handful of things 775 00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:51,359 for you today. Uh let's do uh we 776 00:34:51,359 --> 00:34:53,520 received a request from a sales agent 777 00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:56,320 applicant Brigham Howard and he is 778 00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:58,644 joining us virtually 779 00:34:58,644 --> 00:35:00,320 [clears throat] so he can answer any 780 00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:02,640 questions but I'll just do a brief 781 00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:04,960 update. He requested 782 00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:08,160 a lensure. He passed his exam in May but 783 00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:10,160 he needs the commission's approval to 784 00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:12,880 wave a high school diploma GED 785 00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:16,000 requirement for real estate lensure. 786 00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:18,079 He submitted four documents that you 787 00:35:18,079 --> 00:35:23,200 should have received in your email. Um, 788 00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:25,359 let me go over them real quick. Uh, his 789 00:35:25,359 --> 00:35:28,000 educational summary. He completed his 790 00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:29,920 secondary education through my tech 791 00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:32,560 high. [clears throat] It is a state 792 00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:35,680 recognized structured homeschool program 793 00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:37,839 and it required weekly progress and 794 00:35:37,839 --> 00:35:40,320 logging. It does seem to cover all of 795 00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:42,160 the statewide 796 00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:44,480 uh curricula including English, 797 00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:47,920 literature, math, science, and history. 798 00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:49,760 He personally did five years of formal 799 00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:52,000 speech, debate, and logic training, 800 00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:53,760 which included competing in statewide 801 00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:56,480 tournaments multiple times a year. 802 00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:59,680 Additionally, he has completed some 803 00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:01,920 foundational business courses through 804 00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:04,960 BYU's independent study program. 805 00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:08,079 um his professional experience. Uh he 806 00:36:08,079 --> 00:36:10,000 currently serves as a project manager 807 00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:12,720 for Ironwood Partners where he oversees 808 00:36:12,720 --> 00:36:14,560 acquisitions, renovations, and leasing 809 00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:17,520 for Light Industrial Real Estate. He can 810 00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:19,280 explain more about what that is if you'd 811 00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:22,160 like. Uh prior to this, he founded and 812 00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:24,720 scaled Serene Outdoor Living, merging 813 00:36:24,720 --> 00:36:26,800 the business transition into real estate 814 00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:29,200 full-time. He also brings valuable 815 00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:31,040 operational leadership from his time as 816 00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:34,079 general manager for Olympus Landscaping 817 00:36:34,079 --> 00:36:36,400 where he directed hiring sales and field 818 00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:40,000 operations for six crews. Um if lenture 819 00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:42,800 is granted, Mr. Howard will join a line 820 00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:45,839 complete real estate services and as an 821 00:36:45,839 --> 00:36:48,720 agent. Jonah Hornsby, who is a sales 822 00:36:48,720 --> 00:36:51,520 agent with that company currently and 823 00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:53,520 one of the owners of Ironwood Companies 824 00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:56,880 and the Wine Complete has provided just 825 00:36:56,880 --> 00:37:05,109 Oh, sorry about that. 826 00:37:05,119 --> 00:37:08,990 Sorry, my dog got a bottle behind me. Um 827 00:37:08,990 --> 00:37:10,000 [clears throat] 828 00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:17,599 uh the owner Yeah, here we go. Uh his 829 00:37:17,599 --> 00:37:19,200 recommendation has provided a strong 830 00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:20,640 recommendation testifying to Mr. 831 00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:24,320 Howard's character and readiness. Um the 832 00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:26,079 educational requirement for lenture 833 00:37:26,079 --> 00:37:28,320 exists to ensure candidates possess 834 00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:29,760 communication, analytical, and 835 00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:32,400 mathematical skills necessary to safely 836 00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:35,040 represent the public. Mr. Howard's 837 00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:37,200 background uh managing commercial real 838 00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:40,160 estate operations, municipal permitting, 839 00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:42,800 and profitable businesses clearly 840 00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:45,280 demonstrate these capabilities. 841 00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:48,320 Uh we we respectfully request that the 842 00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:51,200 commission uh wave the standard high 843 00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:54,160 school GED requirement on his behalf and 844 00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:57,040 accept his Mitech high certificate of 845 00:37:57,040 --> 00:37:59,599 completion and professional history as a 846 00:37:59,599 --> 00:38:01,680 satisfying equivalent. 847 00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:03,599 um he did receive that certification 848 00:38:03,599 --> 00:38:08,000 back in May 18th, 2018. So that was in 849 00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:11,599 line with his um secondary studies. 850 00:38:11,599 --> 00:38:13,359 Any questions? Mr. Howard, would you 851 00:38:13,359 --> 00:38:15,599 like to say a few words since you're 852 00:38:15,599 --> 00:38:18,320 here? 853 00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:20,720 >> Yeah, definitely. Thank you for for um 854 00:38:20,720 --> 00:38:21,920 reviewing that and for your help with 855 00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:23,440 everything. I appreciate that. And 856 00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:24,800 sorry, I'm in a truck. I was at a job 857 00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:26,400 site and wasn't able to make it back to 858 00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:27,680 the office in time, so I didn't want to 859 00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:30,240 miss it. But no, I think that's great. I 860 00:38:30,240 --> 00:38:32,079 think that covers a lot of what I did. 861 00:38:32,079 --> 00:38:34,400 It's just um the homeschool route is a 862 00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:36,000 little bit different which me and all my 863 00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:37,280 siblings have run into this a couple 864 00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:39,520 times just where we have to submit our 865 00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:42,000 my highaya application or certificate of 866 00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:44,000 completion and then demonstrate what we 867 00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:45,680 learned but we went through the full 868 00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:47,280 curriculum that you would normally have 869 00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:51,920 K through 12 and we um the my high 870 00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:53,040 essentially what it is is you just 871 00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:54,880 submit the weekly learning log showing 872 00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:57,040 what you did in each core category which 873 00:38:57,040 --> 00:38:59,280 is math, science, history all the same 874 00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:00,960 core learnings and then apart from that 875 00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:03,280 we have the extracurricular activities 876 00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:05,520 like music, the speech and debate, 877 00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:07,200 gymnastics, different things like that. 878 00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:09,680 So, I feel like I was able to cover the 879 00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:11,359 same [snorts] 880 00:39:11,359 --> 00:39:12,720 um the same studies that you would 881 00:39:12,720 --> 00:39:14,079 normally have in the traditional route, 882 00:39:14,079 --> 00:39:16,000 but just a little bit little bit 883 00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:21,589 different route, but I appreciate this. 884 00:39:21,599 --> 00:39:24,480 » Thank you. Um I don't know if any any of 885 00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:27,280 the commissioners have questions. I I 886 00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:30,960 read through everything. you've you've got an impressive track record in 887 00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:34,079 terms of what you've accomplished and uh 888 00:39:34,079 --> 00:39:38,960 I from my perspective you certainly uh 889 00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:42,240 deserve that uh that waiver to to to be 890 00:39:42,240 --> 00:39:44,480 able to become licensed. So if there are 891 00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:45,920 any other comments from commissioner I 892 00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:48,000 guess we guess we'll we'll address this 893 00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:56,400 during our executive session. Um you're welcome to stay uh till we get 894 00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:59,599 through that uh or uh the division will 895 00:39:59,599 --> 00:40:03,040 notify you of our decision. 896 00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:08,550 Any questions from other commissioners? 897 00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:10,960 Okay. Thank you for for appearing before 898 00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:18,480 us and thanks for that uh input from Laurel. Uh let's see. 899 00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:21,520 Thank you. 900 00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:24,160 >> Oh, do you want to go to your next item 901 00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:27,839 that uh regarding the uh instruct 902 00:40:27,839 --> 00:40:29,760 instructor development workshop? 903 00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:32,640 >> Yeah, thank you. Um now that caravan is 904 00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:36,160 in the rearview mirror uh I have IDW on 905 00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:44,630 my mind. So that is as 906 00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:48,800 you're muted somehow it looks like. 907 00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:51,040 Um, I would like to present something. 908 00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:52,640 We've been thinking about this as a 909 00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:56,560 division prior to caravan, but uh, we 910 00:40:56,560 --> 00:40:58,240 met together and I want to present this 911 00:40:58,240 --> 00:41:00,480 idea to see what you guys think. Um, we 912 00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:02,000 did something like this for the mortgage 913 00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:04,480 commission where we reduce barriers to 914 00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:07,440 entry by reducing 15 hours to 5 hours. 915 00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:09,599 This is the same idea. We're just trying 916 00:41:09,599 --> 00:41:12,720 to reduce the barriers um to keep our 917 00:41:12,720 --> 00:41:15,440 educators good and trained. So we want 918 00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:18,240 to work on modernizing 919 00:41:18,240 --> 00:41:20,880 instructor development workshop. Um our 920 00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:23,040 current administrative rules mandate 921 00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:26,160 that certified instructors must attend a 922 00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:28,560 division sponsored approved instructor 923 00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:32,640 development workshop every two years and 924 00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:35,359 typically this has been a two-day event 925 00:41:35,359 --> 00:41:37,920 for all day. Now keep in mind that we 926 00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:40,880 have licences from all over the nation. 927 00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:42,640 So this is going to require them uh 928 00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:47,520 travel time. Um I I feel that it is 929 00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:51,119 restrictive for cost. Um I was surprised 930 00:41:51,119 --> 00:41:53,760 that I met people from which I loved 931 00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:56,160 though you know Maine and New Jersey 932 00:41:56,160 --> 00:41:58,800 coming into Salt Lake for this training. 933 00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:01,760 But um I feel that while it's 934 00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:03,839 well-intentioned, the requirement has 935 00:42:03,839 --> 00:42:05,760 become restrictive, creating a 936 00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:07,520 significant administrative and time 937 00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:09,920 burden without delivering substantive 938 00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:12,240 value, especially for our veteran 939 00:42:12,240 --> 00:42:14,400 instructors, some of whom have been 940 00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:16,960 teaching for decades. 941 00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:21,680 Um I talked to and Danny Naylor's here, 942 00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:24,960 but I wanted to talk to um one of our 943 00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:27,280 premier education providers to get his 944 00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:29,839 take on it. And he says the traditional 945 00:42:29,839 --> 00:42:32,800 IDW focuses almost exclusively on 946 00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:35,440 teaching live performance which not 947 00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:37,520 everybody does like so many people take 948 00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:40,000 these online classes but he said a 949 00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:41,760 modern instructor's workload is heavily 950 00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:44,560 weighted towards behind the scenes data 951 00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:47,280 management course design structure and 952 00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:50,319 keeping complex content legally 953 00:42:50,319 --> 00:42:52,560 um up todate. 954 00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:55,040 So in addition to the barriers barriers 955 00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:58,240 of cost for our out of state, I want to 956 00:42:58,240 --> 00:43:00,880 add his thoughts as a veteran person and 957 00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:03,200 of course he can speak for himself here 958 00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:05,920 in a bit. Um we did a comparison with 959 00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:08,640 our neighbor neighboring states. So we 960 00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:11,280 did Arizona, New Mexico, Idaho, 961 00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:14,240 Colorado, Nevada, Montana, Wyoming to 962 00:43:14,240 --> 00:43:16,640 see what they were doing. Um, and we 963 00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:19,200 found that only three of them 964 00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:23,760 require an IDW like renewal process. The 965 00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:27,839 other ones do not. So, 966 00:43:27,839 --> 00:43:30,640 uh, and everybody but us, we by far have 967 00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:34,000 the most restrictive, um, rules. This is 968 00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:37,760 why we're hoping to, um, you know, 969 00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:41,440 soften them up a little bit. uh all of 970 00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:43,520 the other states that require up three, 971 00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:45,760 they also allow like a third party or 972 00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:48,640 another vendor and as an option for them 973 00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:50,720 to complete this rather than just go to 974 00:43:50,720 --> 00:43:52,319 IDW. 975 00:43:52,319 --> 00:43:54,480 So, we want to give educators more 976 00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:59,040 flexibility. Um attending state or REA 977 00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:01,520 approved two-day instructor workshops. 978 00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:03,200 Um we probably make it within the last 979 00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:06,240 year before renewal. holding specific 980 00:44:06,240 --> 00:44:10,560 credentials maybe like DEI or CDEI 981 00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:12,560 um being an active approved instructor 982 00:44:12,560 --> 00:44:14,640 with NEB 983 00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:16,880 or their affiliates. 984 00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:20,960 So if you and I I I fully expect 985 00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:22,400 discussion, but if you're amanable to 986 00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:24,960 these suggestions or ideas, the division 987 00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:27,119 would like to prepare an updated version 988 00:44:27,119 --> 00:44:29,839 of these rules for your consideration at 989 00:44:29,839 --> 00:44:32,640 the next commission meeting. So, uh, we 990 00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:35,119 are open to have a pre- comment like 991 00:44:35,119 --> 00:44:37,599 during the whole month or comment here 992 00:44:37,599 --> 00:44:39,760 since it's a new idea. We just want to 993 00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:41,440 get your ideas on what you think moving 994 00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:45,910 forward, 995 00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:47,119 » commissioners. 996 00:44:47,119 --> 00:44:48,960 >> Yeah, I'd be open to see what you come 997 00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:51,040 up with and are there any virtual 998 00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:55,990 options as well, 999 00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:58,079 » Commissioner Smith? 1000 00:44:58,079 --> 00:45:00,480 >> Yeah, I appreciate that. I think uh I 1001 00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:02,560 think we need to update a lot of things 1002 00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:05,839 as we go along. Um I have another 1003 00:45:05,839 --> 00:45:07,760 question that's related but not 1004 00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:13,041 necessarily to IDW. What is in maybe 1005 00:45:13,041 --> 00:45:14,000 [gasps] 1006 00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:18,880 well what's the process for getting um 1007 00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:21,599 getting certified as a CE instructor? We 1008 00:45:21,599 --> 00:45:24,720 had some, my reason for asking, we had 1009 00:45:24,720 --> 00:45:26,560 someone in our office the other day that 1010 00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:28,480 was invited in because it was a friend 1011 00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:32,560 of one of our affiliates and she was 1012 00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:35,520 absolutely horrible. She had she had 1013 00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:39,040 zero well, I could tell she had studied 1014 00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:43,359 the the um you know, the outline, but 1015 00:45:43,359 --> 00:45:47,119 she had no physical knowledge of of the 1016 00:45:47,119 --> 00:45:50,160 subject matter. And I felt like I was 1017 00:45:50,160 --> 00:45:52,880 training the whole time because she 1018 00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:59,520 didn't know the answers and she didn't even know glossery of vocabulary. 1019 00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:02,480 uh she was saying saying things 1020 00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:07,680 incorrectly and uh so anyway that I'm 1021 00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:11,200 sure that's a very rare situation but 1022 00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:14,079 I'm just curious if what we have in 1023 00:46:14,079 --> 00:46:21,440 place for um someone to show that they have the 1024 00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:24,319 expertise to teach on a specific 1025 00:46:24,319 --> 00:46:25,599 subject. 1026 00:46:25,599 --> 00:46:27,920 So Randy, I'm wondering if do you know 1027 00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:29,839 if that instructor was just a CE 1028 00:46:29,839 --> 00:46:33,040 instructor? IDW is required for a 1029 00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:36,000 mandatory and pre-licensed instructors 1030 00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:38,240 which are really kind of a leveled up 1031 00:46:38,240 --> 00:46:40,640 and I didn't explain that so I apologize 1032 00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:44,319 but I this is like the the worst thing 1033 00:46:44,319 --> 00:46:46,880 we want to hear, right? But in answer to 1034 00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:49,119 your question um I've asked our 1035 00:46:49,119 --> 00:46:52,160 education coordinator Regina Duncan to 1036 00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:54,880 join us. Regina, can you just give them 1037 00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:58,160 the um I think if we could just have a 1038 00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:00,720 short summary of what it takes to become 1039 00:47:00,720 --> 00:47:03,680 a C instructor as opposed to like the 1040 00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:05,839 pre-licicensing and mandatory 1041 00:47:05,839 --> 00:47:09,200 instructor. I feel like on the in intake 1042 00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:13,359 we have a good um plan, but Regina, do 1043 00:47:13,359 --> 00:47:15,680 you have a couple thoughts for us? I 1044 00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:17,359 know we have a pretty full agenda and 1045 00:47:17,359 --> 00:47:19,920 I'm okay to do this offline if that's if 1046 00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:21,920 that's better because uh 1047 00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:24,480 >> yeah sounds good some time 1048 00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:28,000 >> I think it sounds like uh 1049 00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:29,760 >> we want you to move forward with this 1050 00:47:29,760 --> 00:47:32,079 proposal that it that it makes sense to 1051 00:47:32,079 --> 00:47:35,280 update and modernize the options uh 1052 00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:37,200 available on this. So we'll we'll look 1053 00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:39,119 forward to hearing 1054 00:47:39,119 --> 00:47:42,000 a specific proposal next month or 1055 00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:43,520 whenever it's ready. 1056 00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:48,400 >> Thanks. Great. Do you want to uh 1057 00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:52,480 touch base touch on uh the statistics? 1058 00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:53,200 Uh 1059 00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:55,359 >> yeah, I I have a couple things. I 1060 00:47:55,359 --> 00:47:57,760 apologize for taking your time, but um 1061 00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:00,240 I'm a busy bee over here and I want to 1062 00:48:00,240 --> 00:48:03,760 cover all the bases. Um we are pleased 1063 00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:06,079 to report that our serious technical 1064 00:48:06,079 --> 00:48:08,560 difficulties impacting my license one 1065 00:48:08,560 --> 00:48:10,720 have been resolved. Now you know we have 1066 00:48:10,720 --> 00:48:12,960 been struggling with this system since 1067 00:48:12,960 --> 00:48:15,839 it was instituted but um we really had 1068 00:48:15,839 --> 00:48:19,440 systems failure and it was bedlum so I 1069 00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:22,640 apologize for this um we do seem to have 1070 00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:24,000 things fixed and it's actually working 1071 00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:26,079 better than it has applications are 1072 00:48:26,079 --> 00:48:28,240 coming through faster affiliations are 1073 00:48:28,240 --> 00:48:30,480 working roster management is working 1074 00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:33,119 will this break again I have no idea but 1075 00:48:33,119 --> 00:48:35,839 we have got some traction that we 1076 00:48:35,839 --> 00:48:38,400 haven't received before 1077 00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:40,319 and looking towards the future. We're 1078 00:48:40,319 --> 00:48:42,400 going to have a new system. You probably 1079 00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:45,359 knew that was coming anyway, but um we 1080 00:48:45,359 --> 00:48:47,680 have some headway where either the 1081 00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:49,839 director or I will have direct impact on 1082 00:48:49,839 --> 00:48:53,280 whether this new program is going to 1083 00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:56,240 work for our tiered system, which the 1084 00:48:56,240 --> 00:48:58,400 one that we have just isn't working. So, 1085 00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:00,240 we will have input on that and we won't 1086 00:49:00,240 --> 00:49:02,319 choose a system that doesn't work for 1087 00:49:02,319 --> 00:49:07,839 us. Um neither the director or I were in on the selection process. So, we 1088 00:49:07,839 --> 00:49:09,760 have a vested interest into getting a 1089 00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:12,800 good program up and running. And we're 1090 00:49:12,800 --> 00:49:14,079 thinking that instead of just like 1091 00:49:14,079 --> 00:49:16,480 saying boom, here try this out, we're 1092 00:49:16,480 --> 00:49:18,240 going to ask for a sixmonth kind of 1093 00:49:18,240 --> 00:49:20,079 trial period where commissioners can 1094 00:49:20,079 --> 00:49:23,040 test this out. Uh, division tested it 1095 00:49:23,040 --> 00:49:25,520 out, but keep in mind we don't have like 1096 00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:27,760 active brokers working on rosters, that 1097 00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:29,280 kind of thing. So, we couldn't really 1098 00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:30,559 test everything. So, we're going to do 1099 00:49:30,559 --> 00:49:33,359 it better this time. So, um, I just 1100 00:49:33,359 --> 00:49:36,880 appreciate your patience with us. Uh we 1101 00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:39,440 uh Randy, you always talk about our 1102 00:49:39,440 --> 00:49:43,040 turnover time with our applications. Um 1103 00:49:43,040 --> 00:49:46,240 so I have been asking for new people. I 1104 00:49:46,240 --> 00:49:48,000 just have to let you know. So we are 1105 00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:50,720 going to use this time limited person. 1106 00:49:50,720 --> 00:49:52,640 I'm not going to make this a secret, but 1107 00:49:52,640 --> 00:49:55,520 I want to keep them forever. But um so 1108 00:49:55,520 --> 00:49:57,119 far we just have funding for 3 to 6 1109 00:49:57,119 --> 00:50:01,280 months. We are going to uh improve our 1110 00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:04,079 systems. We are going to fasttrack this. 1111 00:50:04,079 --> 00:50:06,319 If somebody turns in a 100% complete 1112 00:50:06,319 --> 00:50:09,119 application, we will fasttrack that and 1113 00:50:09,119 --> 00:50:11,599 get it approved as soon as possible. Um, 1114 00:50:11,599 --> 00:50:14,720 we have been just uh taking from the 1115 00:50:14,720 --> 00:50:17,119 latest or the like the latest submission 1116 00:50:17,119 --> 00:50:19,520 and making sure they submit, but 40 to 1117 00:50:19,520 --> 00:50:21,440 60% of our applications come in 1118 00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:22,960 incomplete. 1119 00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:25,520 So, we're going to have a template and 1120 00:50:25,520 --> 00:50:27,760 say, "Hey, boom. We need these things 1121 00:50:27,760 --> 00:50:31,359 within 30 days." if we don't get it. Um, 1122 00:50:31,359 --> 00:50:34,480 I'm not saying we're going to deny it, 1123 00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:35,760 but they're not going to get our full 1124 00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:37,119 attention. We're going to put our full 1125 00:50:37,119 --> 00:50:39,520 attention on people that really pay 1126 00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:41,760 attention to what we need. And after 1127 00:50:41,760 --> 00:50:43,280 all, those are the people we want in our 1128 00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:44,880 business, right? They read instructions, 1129 00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:46,880 they complete forms, they do their 1130 00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:48,880 education. So, I think we're going to 1131 00:50:48,880 --> 00:50:50,480 see some progress there. And we're going 1132 00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:53,359 to put uh the time limited new person, 1133 00:50:53,359 --> 00:50:55,280 which I hope to have hired within a 1134 00:50:55,280 --> 00:50:58,319 couple weeks fully on staff. uh we're 1135 00:50:58,319 --> 00:51:00,160 going to have them turn our sales a 1136 00:51:00,160 --> 00:51:04,000 agent applications as a first duty. So 1137 00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:07,040 we should see that improve and then 1138 00:51:07,040 --> 00:51:09,760 we'll do an audit process and hopefully 1139 00:51:09,760 --> 00:51:12,400 this will improve enough have the extra 1140 00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:15,599 help before we consider options like a 1141 00:51:15,599 --> 00:51:18,800 provisional lensure. We talked about it. 1142 00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:22,480 I'm not psyched about it because of um 1143 00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:24,800 just problems that I foresee but it is 1144 00:51:24,800 --> 00:51:27,280 on the table right. We want to help you 1145 00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:30,079 turn these things faster and do a better 1146 00:51:30,079 --> 00:51:33,520 job. Um, any I didn't want to just brush 1147 00:51:33,520 --> 00:51:35,680 our our failure under the table. I 1148 00:51:35,680 --> 00:51:37,599 wanted to just address it and say we're 1149 00:51:37,599 --> 00:51:39,760 aware of it and we're working on it. Any 1150 00:51:39,760 --> 00:51:41,280 questions for that part? 1151 00:51:41,280 --> 00:51:43,920 >> Yeah, Laurel. So now, do we have those 1152 00:51:43,920 --> 00:51:45,839 two separate tracks or is it like first 1153 00:51:45,839 --> 00:51:48,480 in first out? I mean, if it's 100% 1154 00:51:48,480 --> 00:51:50,400 complete, does that go down another 1155 00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:51,920 track or is that something that is 1156 00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:57,599 coming? Um I I mean I we actually found 1157 00:51:57,599 --> 00:51:59,680 this because one of our uh we call him 1158 00:51:59,680 --> 00:52:02,240 the Jeff of all trades, Jeff Rose, um 1159 00:52:02,240 --> 00:52:04,240 was helping us with applications and he 1160 00:52:04,240 --> 00:52:07,920 was like uh I can look at 80 of these 1161 00:52:07,920 --> 00:52:10,640 and see which ones are complete and 1162 00:52:10,640 --> 00:52:12,240 yeah, it's kind of a different track, 1163 00:52:12,240 --> 00:52:14,960 right? You send them an email and they, 1164 00:52:14,960 --> 00:52:16,800 you know, they can correspond with you, 1165 00:52:16,800 --> 00:52:18,720 turn things in, but the other one is 1166 00:52:18,720 --> 00:52:20,880 just, you know, like that. I don't want 1167 00:52:20,880 --> 00:52:22,240 to say immediate turnover, get your 1168 00:52:22,240 --> 00:52:24,240 hopes up or anything, but certainly 1169 00:52:24,240 --> 00:52:26,559 faster than 30 days, right? They don't 1170 00:52:26,559 --> 00:52:28,079 have criminal problems. They don't have 1171 00:52:28,079 --> 00:52:30,960 anything. It would be, as you said, a 1172 00:52:30,960 --> 00:52:32,640 different track, although it's all going 1173 00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:34,880 to be tracked on one central system. 1174 00:52:34,880 --> 00:52:35,200 >> Yeah. 1175 00:52:35,200 --> 00:52:37,119 >> Um, and right now we all of the 1176 00:52:37,119 --> 00:52:38,640 licensing specialists have separate 1177 00:52:38,640 --> 00:52:40,559 ones, but we're going to combine it so 1178 00:52:40,559 --> 00:52:42,880 everyone can see everything. So, anyone 1179 00:52:42,880 --> 00:52:44,880 that calls in, um, they will be able to 1180 00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:46,960 help with any license. We're going to do 1181 00:52:46,960 --> 00:52:49,359 away with the A through Z. So any of our 1182 00:52:49,359 --> 00:52:52,559 licency specialists can help you um with 1183 00:52:52,559 --> 00:52:54,079 any of your questions. Okay. 1184 00:52:54,079 --> 00:52:56,800 >> So we're hoping it opens up enough that 1185 00:52:56,800 --> 00:52:58,640 um 1186 00:52:58,640 --> 00:53:00,480 >> I I'm kind of excited about it. I think 1187 00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:02,160 it should work great, but we'll try it 1188 00:53:02,160 --> 00:53:02,720 and see. 1189 00:53:02,720 --> 00:53:04,640 >> Is it still running like two to three 1190 00:53:04,640 --> 00:53:06,559 weeks? I know you're saying 30 days, but 1191 00:53:06,559 --> 00:53:10,559 what's if it's all complete? Is it still 1192 00:53:10,559 --> 00:53:13,520 a two or three week process? 1193 00:53:13,520 --> 00:53:16,960 >> Um I guess I would toss this. It's 1194 00:53:16,960 --> 00:53:19,839 faster, right? I don't I just want to 1195 00:53:19,839 --> 00:53:21,920 preface it with this. I don't foresee me 1196 00:53:21,920 --> 00:53:24,000 changing the date 1197 00:53:24,000 --> 00:53:27,200 um to less than 30 days because of you 1198 00:53:27,200 --> 00:53:31,599 know this 40 to 60% input that we have. 1199 00:53:31,599 --> 00:53:34,480 But I want to say I don't I don't want 1200 00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:38,000 to put words into my um licensing 1201 00:53:38,000 --> 00:53:40,319 specialist mouth but I am hoping we can 1202 00:53:40,319 --> 00:53:41,680 get it under two weeks. 1203 00:53:41,680 --> 00:53:42,880 >> Okay. 1204 00:53:42,880 --> 00:53:46,720 >> Um now we have to make this practical 1205 00:53:46,720 --> 00:53:49,520 right? I don't want to, but in my mind 1206 00:53:49,520 --> 00:53:51,680 how this is going, I'm thinking we could 1207 00:53:51,680 --> 00:53:53,599 speed it up and you know, if everything 1208 00:53:53,599 --> 00:53:55,760 comes in, maybe we can do it faster, but 1209 00:53:55,760 --> 00:53:57,040 until we try it, I don't want to get 1210 00:53:57,040 --> 00:53:58,160 your hopes up. 1211 00:53:58,160 --> 00:54:00,000 >> Well, we we appreciate all the hard work 1212 00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:02,319 you're doing and looking at all the 1213 00:54:02,319 --> 00:54:04,800 different available options to make it a 1214 00:54:04,800 --> 00:54:07,599 smoother system. And I mean, uh, we 1215 00:54:07,599 --> 00:54:09,839 really appreciate all you're doing. 1216 00:54:09,839 --> 00:54:11,440 >> Randy, I know you've got your hand. I I 1217 00:54:11,440 --> 00:54:15,520 just want to say I I guess you know I I haven't been 1218 00:54:15,520 --> 00:54:17,839 uh you know principal broker managing 1219 00:54:17,839 --> 00:54:20,800 broker for a while but I'm a little I 1220 00:54:20,800 --> 00:54:23,440 guess I'm a little surprised to hear 1221 00:54:23,440 --> 00:54:26,000 that we're processing 1222 00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:28,400 in incomplete applications and I don't 1223 00:54:28,400 --> 00:54:32,559 know if I'm if if if that's just a 1224 00:54:32,559 --> 00:54:35,589 terminology 1225 00:54:35,599 --> 00:54:41,760 issue but I mean in in in most systems 1226 00:54:41,760 --> 00:54:43,920 I mean, if if an application's not 1227 00:54:43,920 --> 00:54:45,440 complete, 1228 00:54:45,440 --> 00:54:48,559 you can't submit it. So, 1229 00:54:48,559 --> 00:54:52,480 >> we we get incomplete applications and um 1230 00:54:52,480 --> 00:54:54,079 we're good at holding hands, I'll tell 1231 00:54:54,079 --> 00:54:56,480 you, but we're going away from it. Um if 1232 00:54:56,480 --> 00:54:58,960 the if the application's incomplete, 1233 00:54:58,960 --> 00:55:02,720 it's going to be template and um get it 1234 00:55:02,720 --> 00:55:04,960 back to us at your leisure, but it's not 1235 00:55:04,960 --> 00:55:06,800 going to be turned over quickly, right? 1236 00:55:06,800 --> 00:55:07,839 These are the ones that are going to 1237 00:55:07,839 --> 00:55:11,440 take the 30 days. So, um, yeah. Anyway, 1238 00:55:11,440 --> 00:55:13,280 yeah, we were processing everything, 1239 00:55:13,280 --> 00:55:15,520 just making sure that the people that, 1240 00:55:15,520 --> 00:55:17,359 uh, turned them in first got taken care 1241 00:55:17,359 --> 00:55:20,319 of. But, um, it's too burdensome. We 1242 00:55:20,319 --> 00:55:23,119 can't do that anymore. 1243 00:55:23,119 --> 00:55:24,079 >> Randy? 1244 00:55:24,079 --> 00:55:26,400 >> Yeah. Two things. Uh, first of all, on 1245 00:55:26,400 --> 00:55:28,960 the same line that Rick was talking, uh, 1246 00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:33,839 is is there some coding that can be do 1247 00:55:33,839 --> 00:55:36,000 can be done up front? Because I love you 1248 00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:38,160 got a great checklist. 1249 00:55:38,160 --> 00:55:42,000 um is if a check mark is not on that 1250 00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:44,400 checklist or or they haven't uploaded 1251 00:55:44,400 --> 00:55:47,599 the current doc or what's needed uh is 1252 00:55:47,599 --> 00:55:49,839 there any way to say they can't even 1253 00:55:49,839 --> 00:55:52,640 submit the application until 1254 00:55:52,640 --> 00:55:56,240 till that is finalized so we're not 1255 00:55:56,240 --> 00:55:59,200 spinning our wheels as education 1256 00:55:59,200 --> 00:56:03,200 >> so in my ide ideal world 1257 00:56:03,200 --> 00:56:05,839 >> um and Junka will get to you for sure um 1258 00:56:05,839 --> 00:56:08,559 in my ideal world new system, it's going 1259 00:56:08,559 --> 00:56:12,079 to have automatic um approvals. 1260 00:56:12,079 --> 00:56:13,680 So, that's what I'm going for. Right 1261 00:56:13,680 --> 00:56:16,319 now, we don't have that system. Our um 1262 00:56:16,319 --> 00:56:18,480 >> our licensing system doesn't allow for 1263 00:56:18,480 --> 00:56:21,200 that. So, we do actually have to have 1264 00:56:21,200 --> 00:56:24,079 our lead, Sarah Thaylor, who is looking 1265 00:56:24,079 --> 00:56:26,720 at the system, building it for us as she 1266 00:56:26,720 --> 00:56:29,119 has the most experience to kind of 1267 00:56:29,119 --> 00:56:31,200 filter these through. So, she will be 1268 00:56:31,200 --> 00:56:33,040 looking at these every morning, every 1269 00:56:33,040 --> 00:56:36,720 night, um to ensure that we're making 1270 00:56:36,720 --> 00:56:39,280 good progress and getting the 100% 1271 00:56:39,280 --> 00:56:42,160 completes. So, I don't know. It's it's 1272 00:56:42,160 --> 00:56:43,760 very early on. She probably doesn't have 1273 00:56:43,760 --> 00:56:48,880 an idea of um the track system um that 1274 00:56:48,880 --> 00:56:51,280 Bringhurst was talking about. But 1275 00:56:51,280 --> 00:56:52,079 >> anyway, 1276 00:56:52,079 --> 00:56:54,640 >> that brings up my my second point. Uh 1277 00:56:54,640 --> 00:56:56,319 when we switched from Realms to my 1278 00:56:56,319 --> 00:56:58,960 license one, we had talked about several 1279 00:56:58,960 --> 00:57:00,559 times when we knew that was coming down 1280 00:57:00,559 --> 00:57:03,200 the pike. Please don't turn off Realms 1281 00:57:03,200 --> 00:57:07,040 until we know the new one works. And 1282 00:57:07,040 --> 00:57:08,880 then it was just an automatic switch 1283 00:57:08,880 --> 00:57:10,960 over and we were told that sorry, it was 1284 00:57:10,960 --> 00:57:13,920 cost prohibitive. We couldn't do it. Um, 1285 00:57:13,920 --> 00:57:18,240 and so, um, I really hope that we can 1286 00:57:18,240 --> 00:57:20,799 have some beta testing on the new system 1287 00:57:20,799 --> 00:57:25,119 and and not, uh, not 1288 00:57:25,119 --> 00:57:27,119 go full boore on it until we know it 1289 00:57:27,119 --> 00:57:29,280 works and it's been tested. 1290 00:57:29,280 --> 00:57:30,799 >> That's our plan. 1291 00:57:30,799 --> 00:57:32,720 >> Jen Co, do you have something to add? 1292 00:57:32,720 --> 00:57:34,400 >> Yeah, just to add a little bit. So, the 1293 00:57:34,400 --> 00:57:37,200 way that the current system works is um, 1294 00:57:37,200 --> 00:57:39,839 there are some fields that will prevent, 1295 00:57:39,839 --> 00:57:41,359 you know, applicants from moving 1296 00:57:41,359 --> 00:57:43,760 forward. For instance, if they say they 1297 00:57:43,760 --> 00:57:45,920 passed their exam, you know, outside of 1298 00:57:45,920 --> 00:57:48,880 the 90-day period, it will stop them. 1299 00:57:48,880 --> 00:57:52,079 Some of the fields that are in my in my 1300 00:57:52,079 --> 00:57:53,440 like estimation are a little more 1301 00:57:53,440 --> 00:57:55,440 problematic is is that a field will ask 1302 00:57:55,440 --> 00:57:59,280 for a document upload and you know that 1303 00:57:59,280 --> 00:58:03,040 document may or may not be complete. Uh 1304 00:58:03,040 --> 00:58:04,960 it could be a picture of their dog, you 1305 00:58:04,960 --> 00:58:07,040 know, just just you know, something 1306 00:58:07,040 --> 00:58:12,079 that's totally not related. So there are options. I know in some 1307 00:58:12,079 --> 00:58:14,559 systems where if they're asking for 1308 00:58:14,559 --> 00:58:19,119 let's say um a birth certificate there are technologies out there that'll 1309 00:58:19,119 --> 00:58:22,000 be able to tell if this is actually a 1310 00:58:22,000 --> 00:58:23,440 birth certificate or it's something 1311 00:58:23,440 --> 00:58:25,839 unrelated or a driver's license copy. So 1312 00:58:25,839 --> 00:58:28,559 for the most part the system does do 1313 00:58:28,559 --> 00:58:30,240 checking. But let's say you know they 1314 00:58:30,240 --> 00:58:31,760 just send us a completely blank 1315 00:58:31,760 --> 00:58:34,079 activation form. The system is not smart 1316 00:58:34,079 --> 00:58:36,720 enough to realize that this form is not 1317 00:58:36,720 --> 00:58:38,319 filled out. So, it does catch some 1318 00:58:38,319 --> 00:58:40,000 stuff, but it's really the document 1319 00:58:40,000 --> 00:58:42,640 uploads and more of the specific things 1320 00:58:42,640 --> 00:58:45,520 that, you know, hold up things. 1321 00:58:45,520 --> 00:58:48,079 >> Thanks. Thanks for that explanation 1322 00:58:48,079 --> 00:58:49,280 that's helpful. 1323 00:58:49,280 --> 00:58:51,680 >> I'll do a quick stats if you don't have 1324 00:58:51,680 --> 00:58:54,400 any questions. Um, because I did more 1325 00:58:54,400 --> 00:58:58,000 comprehensive last year. Uh, we have 1326 00:58:58,000 --> 00:59:00,480 from May to June, total licenses grew by 1327 00:59:00,480 --> 00:59:04,480 about 300. uh our all-time high total 1328 00:59:04,480 --> 00:59:07,670 32,727. 1329 00:59:07,680 --> 00:59:09,760 The growth was driven by an increase of 1330 00:59:09,760 --> 00:59:11,599 active sales agents and a rise in 1331 00:59:11,599 --> 00:59:14,400 inactive licenses. Um and then we just 1332 00:59:14,400 --> 00:59:16,559 had a little dip of nine registered 1333 00:59:16,559 --> 00:59:19,440 entities. And that's all I have. I thank 1334 00:59:19,440 --> 00:59:21,599 you for your time a little longer for 1335 00:59:21,599 --> 00:59:25,440 licensing, but uh we had to do it. So, 1336 00:59:25,440 --> 00:59:27,119 thank you. 1337 00:59:27,119 --> 00:59:29,760 >> Thanks. 1338 00:59:29,760 --> 00:59:33,920 >> Thank you. Uh, next on the agenda, uh, 1339 00:59:33,920 --> 00:59:35,920 Commission Industry issues with Mr. 1340 00:59:35,920 --> 00:59:39,750 Barney. 1341 00:59:39,760 --> 00:59:42,000 » Yes. Thank you. I appreciate your time 1342 00:59:42,000 --> 00:59:44,160 here. I know it's been, uh, a little bit 1343 00:59:44,160 --> 00:59:46,319 longer than we we sometimes have for 1344 00:59:46,319 --> 00:59:48,319 meeting, so appreciate your attention 1345 00:59:48,319 --> 00:59:51,119 here, and I'll be brief. Um the 1346 00:59:51,119 --> 00:59:55,280 commission's aware that the um the 1347 00:59:55,280 --> 00:59:59,280 division uh has been working on 1348 00:59:59,280 --> 01:00:03,520 a rule amendment or a new rule for the 1349 01:00:03,520 --> 01:00:06,480 property management licenses 1350 01:00:06,480 --> 01:00:10,880 and uh with direction from McMy we were 1351 01:00:10,880 --> 01:00:15,200 looking at a whole new rule that 1352 01:00:15,200 --> 01:00:17,440 uh gave us some problems. we had some 1353 01:00:17,440 --> 01:00:20,400 issues. It was basically 1354 01:00:20,400 --> 01:00:22,720 uh copying a bunch of sections and 1355 01:00:22,720 --> 01:00:24,720 anyway it wasn't working out very well. 1356 01:00:24,720 --> 01:00:27,520 We since have been working on and 1357 01:00:27,520 --> 01:00:29,440 director Vett's gotten involved and we 1358 01:00:29,440 --> 01:00:32,480 appreciate that working on just a new 1359 01:00:32,480 --> 01:00:35,839 rule. We think that uh I'm sorry working 1360 01:00:35,839 --> 01:00:38,960 on amending the current real estate rule 1361 01:00:38,960 --> 01:00:42,559 and so we're looking at that. Uh I think 1362 01:00:42,559 --> 01:00:45,040 uh we have a working draft there. So, 1363 01:00:45,040 --> 01:00:46,640 we're making progress, but this has been 1364 01:00:46,640 --> 01:00:48,799 a long long process, and we appreciate 1365 01:00:48,799 --> 01:00:54,230 your patience on it. Any questions? 1366 01:00:54,240 --> 01:00:56,559 » Are are you anticipating a a meeting of 1367 01:00:56,559 --> 01:01:01,359 the subcommittee um on that or 1368 01:01:01,359 --> 01:01:03,920 >> uh I think yes, that is uh the 1369 01:01:03,920 --> 01:01:08,000 expectation. So, we can uh I know uh 1370 01:01:08,000 --> 01:01:10,559 Rick, you're on that committee, so we'll 1371 01:01:10,559 --> 01:01:12,880 make sure you get notice of that. 1372 01:01:12,880 --> 01:01:16,630 >> Thank you. Yep. 1373 01:01:16,640 --> 01:01:20,789 And any other questions? 1374 01:01:20,799 --> 01:01:23,200 » All right. Thank you for your time. 1375 01:01:23,200 --> 01:01:27,520 >> Thank you, Mr. Barney. Now, uh we'll go 1376 01:01:27,520 --> 01:01:31,119 to enforcement with uh with Miss Kalin. 1377 01:01:31,119 --> 01:01:33,359 >> Thank you, Chair. Uh the enforcement 1378 01:01:33,359 --> 01:01:36,400 team has continued to demonstrate uh 1379 01:01:36,400 --> 01:01:39,359 streamlined operations and dedication to 1380 01:01:39,359 --> 01:01:42,240 reducing our overall case load. While 1381 01:01:42,240 --> 01:01:44,400 the incoming workload remains steady 1382 01:01:44,400 --> 01:01:47,359 with 32 new complaints, uh that is a 1383 01:01:47,359 --> 01:01:50,079 slight decrease from last month, uh the 1384 01:01:50,079 --> 01:01:52,640 team has dramatically outpaced demand by 1385 01:01:52,640 --> 01:01:55,040 closing 69 complaints, effectively 1386 01:01:55,040 --> 01:01:58,079 cutting into our backlog and doubling 1387 01:01:58,079 --> 01:02:00,880 our monthly intake. Uh the division is 1388 01:02:00,880 --> 01:02:04,160 currently managing 199 total active 1389 01:02:04,160 --> 01:02:07,119 cases and thanks to the team's 1390 01:02:07,119 --> 01:02:10,079 investigations, 23 of these cases have 1391 01:02:10,079 --> 01:02:12,160 been successfully prepared and are now 1392 01:02:12,160 --> 01:02:15,359 pending formal legal action. Justin 1393 01:02:15,359 --> 01:02:16,880 delivered outstanding results in 1394 01:02:16,880 --> 01:02:20,319 licensing. Uh he took on 10 licensing 1395 01:02:20,319 --> 01:02:23,040 action cases and successfully resolved 1396 01:02:23,040 --> 01:02:25,760 nine of those. And by closing more than 1397 01:02:25,760 --> 01:02:27,440 twice the number of complaints received 1398 01:02:27,440 --> 01:02:29,440 this month, the team is actively 1399 01:02:29,440 --> 01:02:33,280 reducing um the backlog and we are 1400 01:02:33,280 --> 01:02:35,760 attempting to reduce the timeline of 1401 01:02:35,760 --> 01:02:37,839 complaints and ensure swift fair 1402 01:02:37,839 --> 01:02:41,520 enforcement across all of the 1403 01:02:41,520 --> 01:02:44,240 industries. Um and again I just want to 1404 01:02:44,240 --> 01:02:47,200 say uh thank you to the team for their 1405 01:02:47,200 --> 01:02:50,319 efforts. Um are there any enforcement 1406 01:02:50,319 --> 01:02:54,799 questions as far as the stats? 1407 01:02:54,799 --> 01:02:57,440 I don't have any uh the numbers speak 1408 01:02:57,440 --> 01:03:00,160 for themselves and uh you know I think I 1409 01:03:00,160 --> 01:03:02,160 speak for the entire commission and and 1410 01:03:02,160 --> 01:03:04,880 commending you and your team for huge 1411 01:03:04,880 --> 01:03:07,839 progress. I think that uh that that 1412 01:03:07,839 --> 01:03:09,520 current number of open cases is an 1413 01:03:09,520 --> 01:03:11,040 all-time low since I've been on the 1414 01:03:11,040 --> 01:03:12,400 commission. So 1415 01:03:12,400 --> 01:03:14,400 >> that's great great to see. 1416 01:03:14,400 --> 01:03:17,280 >> We're hoping to keep that under the 200. 1417 01:03:17,280 --> 01:03:19,680 It's just right there where we were 1418 01:03:19,680 --> 01:03:22,079 excited to see that number come down. So 1419 01:03:22,079 --> 01:03:25,280 thank you. Um if there's no more stat 1420 01:03:25,280 --> 01:03:27,920 questions, I would like to move to the 1421 01:03:27,920 --> 01:03:30,400 stipulations we have um for your 1422 01:03:30,400 --> 01:03:33,440 consideration today. We have five 1423 01:03:33,440 --> 01:03:36,480 stipulations and uh the first is 1424 01:03:36,480 --> 01:03:38,720 regarding the facts and conclusions 1425 01:03:38,720 --> 01:03:41,520 regarding the stipulation and order for 1426 01:03:41,520 --> 01:03:45,039 Blake Floyd Cousins. Mr. The Cousins has 1427 01:03:45,039 --> 01:03:47,920 held a Utah principal broker license 1428 01:03:47,920 --> 01:03:51,839 since July 2016. And while acting as the 1429 01:03:51,839 --> 01:03:54,000 property manager for the Cedarbend and 1430 01:03:54,000 --> 01:03:57,200 Artisian Park HOAs, he unlawfully 1431 01:03:57,200 --> 01:03:59,440 withdrew and transferred funds from the 1432 01:03:59,440 --> 01:04:01,839 association's bank accounts for personal 1433 01:04:01,839 --> 01:04:04,880 use. Following police reports filed in 1434 01:04:04,880 --> 01:04:09,280 December of 2024 and January of 2025, he 1435 01:04:09,280 --> 01:04:11,440 was arrested and charged with 10 counts 1436 01:04:11,440 --> 01:04:15,119 of unlawful fiduciary dealings. On March 1437 01:04:15,119 --> 01:04:19,119 27th, 2025, Mr. Cousins plead guilty in 1438 01:04:19,119 --> 01:04:21,760 US District Court to felony wire fraud 1439 01:04:21,760 --> 01:04:24,079 and bank fraud. He admitted to 1440 01:04:24,079 --> 01:04:26,880 embezzling funds and agreed to pay over 1441 01:04:26,880 --> 01:04:29,680 2.1 million in restitution to his 1442 01:04:29,680 --> 01:04:31,440 victims. 1443 01:04:31,440 --> 01:04:33,839 Mr. Cousins admits that his actions 1444 01:04:33,839 --> 01:04:35,920 violated multiple Utah real estate 1445 01:04:35,920 --> 01:04:38,400 codes, specifically those prohibiting 1446 01:04:38,400 --> 01:04:41,440 the comingling and diverting of funds, 1447 01:04:41,440 --> 01:04:44,319 engaging in dishonest dealing and being 1448 01:04:44,319 --> 01:04:47,359 convicted of a felony. As a full 1449 01:04:47,359 --> 01:04:49,200 settlement of these issues, the 1450 01:04:49,200 --> 01:04:51,280 finalized order dictates the following 1451 01:04:51,280 --> 01:04:54,480 penalties. Mr. Cousins Utah principal 1452 01:04:54,480 --> 01:04:56,640 broker license will be immediately 1453 01:04:56,640 --> 01:04:59,280 revoked. Furthermore, he will be 1454 01:04:59,280 --> 01:05:02,640 restricted from pro um prohibiting or 1455 01:05:02,640 --> 01:05:04,480 excuse me, he will be prohibited from 1456 01:05:04,480 --> 01:05:07,359 reapplying for any license with the Utah 1457 01:05:07,359 --> 01:05:09,200 Division of Real Estate until he can 1458 01:05:09,200 --> 01:05:12,000 provide certified documentation from the 1459 01:05:12,000 --> 01:05:14,799 court proving that all courtordered 1460 01:05:14,799 --> 01:05:18,160 restitution has been paid in full. I 1461 01:05:18,160 --> 01:05:20,400 also want to note here that even when 1462 01:05:20,400 --> 01:05:24,240 the applicants reapply for that lensure, 1463 01:05:24,240 --> 01:05:26,400 um they're not guaranteed lensure at 1464 01:05:26,400 --> 01:05:28,480 that point. his application will go 1465 01:05:28,480 --> 01:05:30,880 through review. And then I would also 1466 01:05:30,880 --> 01:05:32,559 like to note for the commission that 1467 01:05:32,559 --> 01:05:34,799 because of the natural timeline of Mr. 1468 01:05:34,799 --> 01:05:37,920 Cousins licensing cycle, the division's 1469 01:05:37,920 --> 01:05:40,720 opportunity to execute this revocation 1470 01:05:40,720 --> 01:05:43,359 expires at the end of this month. 1471 01:05:43,359 --> 01:05:45,920 Allowing the lency to expire without 1472 01:05:45,920 --> 01:05:48,000 action prevents the division from 1473 01:05:48,000 --> 01:05:50,400 recording a formal revocation on his 1474 01:05:50,400 --> 01:05:52,799 record and eliminates the enforcement 1475 01:05:52,799 --> 01:05:55,520 mechanism and the restitution safeguards 1476 01:05:55,520 --> 01:05:58,799 established in this particular order. 1477 01:05:58,799 --> 01:06:00,799 Are there any questions regarding this 1478 01:06:00,799 --> 01:06:05,349 issue? 1479 01:06:05,359 --> 01:06:09,440 Okay. Um, I would like to move to Paula 1480 01:06:09,440 --> 01:06:11,760 to present the next stipulation in order 1481 01:06:11,760 --> 01:06:13,760 for your consideration in the matter of 1482 01:06:13,760 --> 01:06:19,750 Ashley web. 1483 01:06:19,760 --> 01:06:21,200 » Good morning, commissioners. My name is 1484 01:06:21,200 --> 01:06:22,720 Paula Ferber and I work with the 1485 01:06:22,720 --> 01:06:24,480 attorney general's office and represent 1486 01:06:24,480 --> 01:06:26,720 the division of real estate. Also on 1487 01:06:26,720 --> 01:06:28,880 this meeting today, we have Kimberly 1488 01:06:28,880 --> 01:06:31,359 Smith who is the count counsel for 1489 01:06:31,359 --> 01:06:33,680 Ashley Webb, the respondent in this 1490 01:06:33,680 --> 01:06:35,119 matter. 1491 01:06:35,119 --> 01:06:36,640 Thanks for your time today. I'm 1492 01:06:36,640 --> 01:06:38,400 presenting the stipulation of proposed 1493 01:06:38,400 --> 01:06:40,960 order in the matter involving Ashley 1494 01:06:40,960 --> 01:06:43,599 Webb, a licensed real estate agent. The 1495 01:06:43,599 --> 01:06:45,440 division and respondent have reached a 1496 01:06:45,440 --> 01:06:46,960 settlement that is before you for 1497 01:06:46,960 --> 01:06:49,920 approval. Mr. Webb has been licensed as 1498 01:06:49,920 --> 01:06:52,720 a real estate agent since March 5th of 1499 01:06:52,720 --> 01:06:54,400 2007. 1500 01:06:54,400 --> 01:06:56,880 His license is affiliated with Equity 1501 01:06:56,880 --> 01:06:58,640 Real Estate, a brokerage licensed by the 1502 01:06:58,640 --> 01:07:01,839 division. The case involved real estate 1503 01:07:01,839 --> 01:07:05,200 transactions in San Pete County, Utah. 1504 01:07:05,200 --> 01:07:07,359 Over several transactions involving the 1505 01:07:07,359 --> 01:07:09,599 same party. Respondent acted as agent 1506 01:07:09,599 --> 01:07:12,559 for both buyer and seller. In one of 1507 01:07:12,559 --> 01:07:14,640 those transactions, Mr. Webb failed to 1508 01:07:14,640 --> 01:07:17,520 obtain a written agency agreement from 1509 01:07:17,520 --> 01:07:21,119 the principles. This conduct violates 1510 01:07:21,119 --> 01:07:24,319 Utah code 612F-412 1511 01:07:24,319 --> 01:07:27,200 and the related rules specifically 1512 01:07:27,200 --> 01:07:29,440 representing both parties without 1513 01:07:29,440 --> 01:07:32,160 written informed consent. Utah code 1514 01:07:32,160 --> 01:07:34,160 612F-412 1515 01:07:34,160 --> 01:07:36,400 says it is unlawful to act for more than 1516 01:07:36,400 --> 01:07:38,720 one party in a transaction without the 1517 01:07:38,720 --> 01:07:41,599 informed consent of the parties. And 1518 01:07:41,599 --> 01:07:44,960 then it Utah administrative code rule 1519 01:07:44,960 --> 01:07:47,839 1622F41 1520 01:07:47,839 --> 01:07:49,760 says that if representing both parties 1521 01:07:49,760 --> 01:07:52,559 in a transaction as a limited agent, 1522 01:07:52,559 --> 01:07:55,920 they must obtain prior informed consent 1523 01:07:55,920 --> 01:07:58,480 explaining in writing to both parties 1524 01:07:58,480 --> 01:08:00,559 that each may be represented by a 1525 01:08:00,559 --> 01:08:02,720 separate agent. The type of information 1526 01:08:02,720 --> 01:08:04,720 that would be held confidential and the 1527 01:08:04,720 --> 01:08:06,000 type of information that will be 1528 01:08:06,000 --> 01:08:08,720 disclosed. The circumstances under which 1529 01:08:08,720 --> 01:08:10,240 withholding of information would 1530 01:08:10,240 --> 01:08:13,599 constitute a material misrepresentation. 1531 01:08:13,599 --> 01:08:15,200 Obtaining a written acknowledgement from 1532 01:08:15,200 --> 01:08:17,040 a party affirming that the party waves 1533 01:08:17,040 --> 01:08:20,000 the right to undivided loyalty, absolute 1534 01:08:20,000 --> 01:08:22,799 confidentiality, and full disclosure. 1535 01:08:22,799 --> 01:08:24,880 So, a petition was filed in this case. 1536 01:08:24,880 --> 01:08:26,880 In order to resolve the pending matter, 1537 01:08:26,880 --> 01:08:28,560 the parties have agreed to this 1538 01:08:28,560 --> 01:08:30,799 stipulation and now requested that the 1539 01:08:30,799 --> 01:08:33,359 commission adopt the following order. 1540 01:08:33,359 --> 01:08:35,600 Respondent admits the facts and 1541 01:08:35,600 --> 01:08:37,679 violation as outlined in the 1542 01:08:37,679 --> 01:08:40,400 stipulation. Respondent shall pay a 1543 01:08:40,400 --> 01:08:43,679 civil penalty of $5,000 to the division 1544 01:08:43,679 --> 01:08:47,040 within 90 days of the signed order. He 1545 01:08:47,040 --> 01:08:49,600 will complete at least three hours of 1546 01:08:49,600 --> 01:08:52,560 continuing education on agency law above 1547 01:08:52,560 --> 01:08:54,239 the 1548 01:08:54,239 --> 01:08:56,000 and those hours don't count toward the 1549 01:08:56,000 --> 01:08:58,799 next license renewal cycle. And Mr. 1550 01:08:58,799 --> 01:09:00,560 Webb's license will be placed on 1551 01:09:00,560 --> 01:09:05,920 probation until March 31st of 2029. 1552 01:09:05,920 --> 01:09:07,359 The division asked the commission to 1553 01:09:07,359 --> 01:09:09,279 approve and adopt this stipulation and 1554 01:09:09,279 --> 01:09:11,359 order as presented. And I'm available to 1555 01:09:11,359 --> 01:09:13,199 answer any questions or provide further 1556 01:09:13,199 --> 01:09:18,149 details if you have any questions. 1557 01:09:18,159 --> 01:09:20,880 You didn't mention I I thought I read 1558 01:09:20,880 --> 01:09:23,040 that it did. Does it also include public 1559 01:09:23,040 --> 01:09:24,080 reprimand? 1560 01:09:24,080 --> 01:09:27,040 >> Yes. Yes. Sorry. P reprimand in the 1561 01:09:27,040 --> 01:09:28,080 newsletter. 1562 01:09:28,080 --> 01:09:30,433 >> Thank you. Thank you. 1563 01:09:30,433 --> 01:09:31,040 [clears throat] 1564 01:09:31,040 --> 01:09:32,239 >> Any other questions? 1565 01:09:32,239 --> 01:09:35,040 >> Yeah. I just had a question on the how 1566 01:09:35,040 --> 01:09:36,560 did you come up with the date March 1567 01:09:36,560 --> 01:09:39,040 31st, 2029. Usually we do the next 1568 01:09:39,040 --> 01:09:41,679 licensing cycle and so I'm just curious. 1569 01:09:41,679 --> 01:09:43,199 Uh, 1570 01:09:43,199 --> 01:09:44,799 I thought that that was the next 1571 01:09:44,799 --> 01:09:47,279 licensing cycle. That was Is that not 1572 01:09:47,279 --> 01:09:48,799 the 1573 01:09:48,799 --> 01:09:50,960 >> Well, licens are only good for two 1574 01:09:50,960 --> 01:09:52,560 years, so probably not. 1575 01:09:52,560 --> 01:09:56,080 >> Probably not. 1576 01:09:56,080 --> 01:09:58,159 >> Uh, if you don't mind, I'd like to add 1577 01:09:58,159 --> 01:10:01,120 um something to what Miss Berber said. 1578 01:10:01,120 --> 01:10:03,440 Um I she mentioned it, but she kind of 1579 01:10:03,440 --> 01:10:05,840 glossed over it. I just wanted to give 1580 01:10:05,840 --> 01:10:08,880 the context that this was there were 1581 01:10:08,880 --> 01:10:11,600 three transactions where Mr. Web was 1582 01:10:11,600 --> 01:10:13,520 representing the buyer and the seller 1583 01:10:13,520 --> 01:10:17,360 and he did get written uh limited or 1584 01:10:17,360 --> 01:10:19,600 written limited agency consent 1585 01:10:19,600 --> 01:10:21,120 agreements in the first two 1586 01:10:21,120 --> 01:10:23,920 transactions. Uh so I just think that 1587 01:10:23,920 --> 01:10:26,320 context is important here because I mean 1588 01:10:26,320 --> 01:10:28,000 I don't want to downplay the importance 1589 01:10:28,000 --> 01:10:31,760 of you know consent to these limited 1590 01:10:31,760 --> 01:10:33,520 agency 1591 01:10:33,520 --> 01:10:36,960 uh transactions but I like because of 1592 01:10:36,960 --> 01:10:39,280 the context here there were two prior 1593 01:10:39,280 --> 01:10:40,320 transactions where [clears throat] there 1594 01:10:40,320 --> 01:10:42,719 was written consent. So I just wanted to 1595 01:10:42,719 --> 01:10:46,159 make that clear to the commission. 1596 01:10:46,159 --> 01:10:48,800 >> Thank you. 1597 01:10:48,800 --> 01:10:50,560 Any any other questions on the 1598 01:10:50,560 --> 01:10:54,470 stipulation? 1599 01:10:54,480 --> 01:10:56,800 Thank you. 1600 01:10:56,800 --> 01:11:00,709 >> Thank you, commissioners. 1601 01:11:00,719 --> 01:11:03,840 » We have three more um matters for your 1602 01:11:03,840 --> 01:11:07,360 consideration. Bill will present the 1603 01:11:07,360 --> 01:11:10,790 remainders. 1604 01:11:10,800 --> 01:11:13,360 » Well, good morning, commissioners. 1605 01:11:13,360 --> 01:11:15,360 So, I have three stipulations for your 1606 01:11:15,360 --> 01:11:18,320 consideration. Uh the first one is in 1607 01:11:18,320 --> 01:11:21,520 the matter of Stephanie Dixon. At all 1608 01:11:21,520 --> 01:11:24,080 times relevant, uh respondent Stephanie 1609 01:11:24,080 --> 01:11:26,560 Dixon was licensed as a principal broker 1610 01:11:26,560 --> 01:11:28,880 by the division of real estate under 1611 01:11:28,880 --> 01:11:31,600 license number 6225642 1612 01:11:31,600 --> 01:11:33,199 PB0000. 1613 01:11:33,199 --> 01:11:35,120 She has been licensed with the division 1614 01:11:35,120 --> 01:11:38,560 since May of 2006 and held a principal 1615 01:11:38,560 --> 01:11:42,159 broker license since April 2022. 1616 01:11:42,159 --> 01:11:46,080 So on January 28th, 2026, 1617 01:11:46,080 --> 01:11:48,159 um the sellers of a residential property 1618 01:11:48,159 --> 01:11:51,040 in Leighton, Utah, retained the response 1619 01:11:51,040 --> 01:11:53,760 list of property and they executed the 1620 01:11:53,760 --> 01:11:55,360 standard seller property condition 1621 01:11:55,360 --> 01:11:58,320 disclosures because the transaction was 1622 01:11:58,320 --> 01:12:01,199 structured as an estate sale. The 1623 01:12:01,199 --> 01:12:04,000 signing seller explicitly noted on a 1624 01:12:04,000 --> 01:12:05,679 document that they had not resided in 1625 01:12:05,679 --> 01:12:07,920 the home for approximately 20 to 38 1626 01:12:07,920 --> 01:12:11,199 years. Shortly after respondent listed 1627 01:12:11,199 --> 01:12:13,760 the property, those disclosures were 1628 01:12:13,760 --> 01:12:16,000 completed by the seller and the property 1629 01:12:16,000 --> 01:12:18,719 went under contract with an initial a 1630 01:12:18,719 --> 01:12:20,960 prospective buyer. 1631 01:12:20,960 --> 01:12:23,600 During the first escrow period on 1632 01:12:23,600 --> 01:12:27,280 February 22nd, 2026, the initial buyers 1633 01:12:27,280 --> 01:12:29,440 conducted a professional sewer scope 1634 01:12:29,440 --> 01:12:31,840 inspection and revealed a severe 1635 01:12:31,840 --> 01:12:34,000 material defect within the main sewer 1636 01:12:34,000 --> 01:12:38,800 line. The next day, February 23rd, 26, 1637 01:12:38,800 --> 01:12:41,520 both the respondent and the sellers 1638 01:12:41,520 --> 01:12:44,400 received a YouTube link containing the 1639 01:12:44,400 --> 01:12:46,880 recorded video footage of this sewer 1640 01:12:46,880 --> 01:12:49,360 scope. And based on the documented 1641 01:12:49,360 --> 01:12:52,080 effect, the buyer uh submitted a formal 1642 01:12:52,080 --> 01:12:54,159 request for sewer related repairs 1643 01:12:54,159 --> 01:12:58,790 totaling $49,99969. 1644 01:12:58,800 --> 01:13:00,400 And that was supported by a professional 1645 01:13:00,400 --> 01:13:02,560 estimate. When the parties were 1646 01:13:02,560 --> 01:13:05,040 ultimately unable to reach an agreement 1647 01:13:05,040 --> 01:13:07,760 um regarding this repair request, the 1648 01:13:07,760 --> 01:13:10,080 initial buyers canled the contract and 1649 01:13:10,080 --> 01:13:13,040 the property went back on the market. 1650 01:13:13,040 --> 01:13:17,199 Moving forward, uh on March 3rd, 2026, 1651 01:13:17,199 --> 01:13:19,360 the complaintant entered into a contract 1652 01:13:19,360 --> 01:13:21,840 to purchase the property as a second 1653 01:13:21,840 --> 01:13:24,480 buyer. So despite having the possession 1654 01:13:24,480 --> 01:13:26,480 of the video evidence documenting the 1655 01:13:26,480 --> 01:13:29,199 failing sewer line and having a detailed 1656 01:13:29,199 --> 01:13:33,280 knowledge of the prior $49,99969 1657 01:13:33,280 --> 01:13:36,000 repair demand for more than a week, the 1658 01:13:36,000 --> 01:13:37,679 respondent failed to have the sellers 1659 01:13:37,679 --> 01:13:39,760 updates or the seller disclosures 1660 01:13:39,760 --> 01:13:43,040 updated by the sellers um with the 1661 01:13:43,040 --> 01:13:45,440 previous sewer scope findings and 1662 01:13:45,440 --> 01:13:48,400 actually given to the upcoming buyer. 1663 01:13:48,400 --> 01:13:50,719 As the transaction proceeded, the 1664 01:13:50,719 --> 01:13:53,040 buyer's agent [clears throat] verbally 1665 01:13:53,040 --> 01:13:55,360 notified the respondent on March 4th, 1666 01:13:55,360 --> 01:13:58,080 2026 that they have an intention to 1667 01:13:58,080 --> 01:14:00,480 perform an independent sewer scope. They 1668 01:14:00,480 --> 01:14:02,080 were completely unaware that the 1669 01:14:02,080 --> 01:14:04,239 professional a professional inspection 1670 01:14:04,239 --> 01:14:06,320 had already identified the major system 1671 01:14:06,320 --> 01:14:08,480 failure and the buyer signed the 1672 01:14:08,480 --> 01:14:11,120 unupdated disclosures on March 9th of 1673 01:14:11,120 --> 01:14:15,840 2026 and personally paid $684.95 1674 01:14:15,840 --> 01:14:18,320 out of pocket to schedule their own 1675 01:14:18,320 --> 01:14:21,760 property inspection and sewer scope. 1676 01:14:21,760 --> 01:14:24,719 And during the um the inspection the 1677 01:14:24,719 --> 01:14:27,520 next day um it was conducted by Beehive 1678 01:14:27,520 --> 01:14:29,280 Plumbing. The technician flagged a 1679 01:14:29,280 --> 01:14:31,679 severe clog in the sewer line which 1680 01:14:31,679 --> 01:14:33,920 prompted a buyer agent to uh formally 1681 01:14:33,920 --> 01:14:35,600 request that the sellers have the line 1682 01:14:35,600 --> 01:14:39,120 professionally jetted and cleaned. 1683 01:14:39,120 --> 01:14:42,000 Then March 11th, 2026, 1684 01:14:42,000 --> 01:14:43,840 one day after the buyer and inspector 1685 01:14:43,840 --> 01:14:45,840 flagged the clog and requested that the 1686 01:14:45,840 --> 01:14:48,880 line be jetted, the respondent finally 1687 01:14:48,880 --> 01:14:51,440 texted the sewer scope link, the YouTube 1688 01:14:51,440 --> 01:14:54,000 link to the buyer's agent. The 1689 01:14:54,000 --> 01:14:55,760 respondent had been in possession of 1690 01:14:55,760 --> 01:14:57,679 this video and fully aware of the sewer 1691 01:14:57,679 --> 01:15:01,199 line defect since February 23rd, 2026, 1692 01:15:01,199 --> 01:15:02,880 but withheld this information for over 1693 01:15:02,880 --> 01:15:04,719 two weeks. 1694 01:15:04,719 --> 01:15:07,199 And then on March 12th, 2026, the 1695 01:15:07,199 --> 01:15:09,040 buyer's plumber conducted a detailed 1696 01:15:09,040 --> 01:15:11,520 review of this sewer system and 1697 01:15:11,520 --> 01:15:14,000 confirmed a major structural failure, 1698 01:15:14,000 --> 01:15:15,600 noting a negative slope and physical 1699 01:15:15,600 --> 01:15:17,440 drop in the pipe. So, upon learning the 1700 01:15:17,440 --> 01:15:19,199 extent of the damage, the buyer 1701 01:15:19,199 --> 01:15:20,560 immediately submitted the formal 1702 01:15:20,560 --> 01:15:24,320 cancellation of this transaction. 1703 01:15:24,320 --> 01:15:25,840 And during the interview with the 1704 01:15:25,840 --> 01:15:28,560 complainant on April 13th, the 1705 01:15:28,560 --> 01:15:30,320 complaintant emphasized that the sewer 1706 01:15:30,320 --> 01:15:32,560 defect if it had been properly disclosed 1707 01:15:32,560 --> 01:15:34,480 up front, he would have cancelled the 1708 01:15:34,480 --> 01:15:36,480 contract immediately. Because he cannot 1709 01:15:36,480 --> 01:15:39,120 afford to repair that size, he had um he 1710 01:15:39,120 --> 01:15:40,640 would have skipped both the home 1711 01:15:40,640 --> 01:15:43,520 inspection and his sewer scope entirely, 1712 01:15:43,520 --> 01:15:45,280 avoiding the necessary out-of- pocket 1713 01:15:45,280 --> 01:15:47,199 costs. 1714 01:15:47,199 --> 01:15:52,880 And then during another interview with a respondent that was on April 17, 2026, 1715 01:15:52,880 --> 01:15:54,880 the respondent admitted that she had 1716 01:15:54,880 --> 01:15:56,480 been in possession with the sewer scope 1717 01:15:56,480 --> 01:16:00,800 video since February 23rd, 2026. 1718 01:16:00,800 --> 01:16:02,320 She explained that she would have held 1719 01:16:02,320 --> 01:16:03,760 this information because she didn't 1720 01:16:03,760 --> 01:16:05,600 considered a defect that was confirmed 1721 01:16:05,600 --> 01:16:08,320 at the time in fear that disclosing it 1722 01:16:08,320 --> 01:16:10,159 would uh put a black mark on the 1723 01:16:10,159 --> 01:16:12,960 property. However, the respondent 1724 01:16:12,960 --> 01:16:14,880 ultimately acknowledged in hindsight 1725 01:16:14,880 --> 01:16:16,640 that she had a professional obligation 1726 01:16:16,640 --> 01:16:18,480 to document the defect in writing and 1727 01:16:18,480 --> 01:16:20,159 should have disclosed it to the incoming 1728 01:16:20,159 --> 01:16:22,400 buyer immediately. 1729 01:16:22,400 --> 01:16:24,400 So in this transaction, commissioners, 1730 01:16:24,400 --> 01:16:26,159 the uh responded in the midst of 1731 01:16:26,159 --> 01:16:28,239 violating 1732 01:16:28,239 --> 01:16:31,840 sorry Utah code 612F41, 1733 01:16:31,840 --> 01:16:33,520 grounds for disciplinary action. The 1734 01:16:33,520 --> 01:16:36,080 following acts are um unlawful in 1735 01:16:36,080 --> 01:16:37,760 grounds for disciplinary action for a 1736 01:16:37,760 --> 01:16:39,840 person l required to be licensed under 1737 01:16:39,840 --> 01:16:42,640 this chapter. One e making a false 1738 01:16:42,640 --> 01:16:44,320 representation or promise of character 1739 01:16:44,320 --> 01:16:47,120 likely to influence, persuade or induce 1740 01:16:47,120 --> 01:16:50,080 by presenting the um unupdated 1741 01:16:50,080 --> 01:16:52,400 disclosures. So under Utah 1742 01:16:52,400 --> 01:16:54,320 administrative instrument administrative 1743 01:16:54,320 --> 01:16:57,520 code R1622F41A 1744 01:16:57,520 --> 01:16:59,120 administrative duties required to 1745 01:16:59,120 --> 01:17:01,120 license individuals 1746 01:17:01,120 --> 01:17:03,679 uh individual license shall one uphold 1747 01:17:03,679 --> 01:17:05,760 the following fiduciary duties in the 1748 01:17:05,760 --> 01:17:08,159 course of representing a principle. D 1749 01:17:08,159 --> 01:17:10,560 full disclosure which obligates the 1750 01:17:10,560 --> 01:17:12,560 agent to inform any principle of any 1751 01:17:12,560 --> 01:17:15,440 material fact the agent learns about and 1752 01:17:15,440 --> 01:17:18,080 two the transaction and D 1753 01:17:18,080 --> 01:17:19,679 confidentiality which prohibits the 1754 01:17:19,679 --> 01:17:22,080 agent from disclosing without permission 1755 01:17:22,080 --> 01:17:24,239 any information given to the agent by 1756 01:17:24,239 --> 01:17:25,840 the principal that would likely weaken 1757 01:17:25,840 --> 01:17:27,679 the principal bard's position if it were 1758 01:17:27,679 --> 01:17:30,480 known but accepting any known material 1759 01:17:30,480 --> 01:17:32,800 fact concerning one a defect in a 1760 01:17:32,800 --> 01:17:34,880 property 1761 01:17:34,880 --> 01:17:38,320 and Utah administrative code R1 1622F 1762 01:17:38,320 --> 01:17:40,080 401B 1763 01:17:40,080 --> 01:17:42,239 prohibit conduct as applicable to 1764 01:17:42,239 --> 01:17:44,800 licensed individuals. One, an individual 1765 01:17:44,800 --> 01:17:47,600 lency may not a engage in any practices 1766 01:17:47,600 --> 01:17:50,560 described in section 612F41 1767 01:17:50,560 --> 01:17:52,480 and the following sections whether 1768 01:17:52,480 --> 01:17:54,800 acting as an agent or in the licensing 1769 01:17:54,800 --> 01:17:57,520 account in the manner that one fails to 1770 01:17:57,520 --> 01:17:59,120 conform with accepted standards of real 1771 01:17:59,120 --> 01:18:01,120 estate sales, licensing and management 1772 01:18:01,120 --> 01:18:02,800 industry. 1773 01:18:02,800 --> 01:18:05,199 and commissioners. In full settlement of 1774 01:18:05,199 --> 01:18:08,640 this matter, the division proposes that 1775 01:18:08,640 --> 01:18:10,400 the respondent shall pay a civil penalty 1776 01:18:10,400 --> 01:18:13,199 of $2,000 to the division within 90 1777 01:18:13,199 --> 01:18:15,360 days. Complete 3 hours of continuing 1778 01:18:15,360 --> 01:18:18,000 education specifically focused on Utah 1779 01:18:18,000 --> 01:18:20,320 law providing a comprehensive review and 1780 01:18:20,320 --> 01:18:21,840 statutes or rules applicable to the real 1781 01:18:21,840 --> 01:18:24,000 estate lenses which shall not count 1782 01:18:24,000 --> 01:18:26,080 toward the renewal cycle and be subject 1783 01:18:26,080 --> 01:18:27,760 to the publication of these findings in 1784 01:18:27,760 --> 01:18:30,400 the division's quarterly newsletter. and 1785 01:18:30,400 --> 01:18:32,480 to provide context for the commission's 1786 01:18:32,480 --> 01:18:35,520 review. The respondent did cooperate 1787 01:18:35,520 --> 01:18:38,239 with the division's investigation and 1788 01:18:38,239 --> 01:18:41,199 took responsibility for the oversight. 1789 01:18:41,199 --> 01:18:42,960 She admitted in hindsight she should 1790 01:18:42,960 --> 01:18:44,239 immediately updated the written 1791 01:18:44,239 --> 01:18:46,080 disclosures to reflect a sewer line 1792 01:18:46,080 --> 01:18:48,239 effect and her legal team fully 1793 01:18:48,239 --> 01:18:50,560 supported this emission. While the uh 1794 01:18:50,560 --> 01:18:52,719 buyer did pay um for their own 1795 01:18:52,719 --> 01:18:54,640 inspection, 1796 01:18:54,640 --> 01:18:57,199 there was really no no other out-of- 1797 01:18:57,199 --> 01:19:00,000 pocket cost, no physical damage to the 1798 01:19:00,000 --> 01:19:02,080 uh property. And additionally, this is 1799 01:19:02,080 --> 01:19:04,480 respondent's first offense. So, she has 1800 01:19:04,480 --> 01:19:06,080 maintained a completely clean record for 1801 01:19:06,080 --> 01:19:08,400 no prior violations since obtaining her 1802 01:19:08,400 --> 01:19:10,480 real estate license. She now fully 1803 01:19:10,480 --> 01:19:12,159 understands her duty to disclose 1804 01:19:12,159 --> 01:19:13,760 material defects in writing and is 1805 01:19:13,760 --> 01:19:15,280 committed to meeting those professional 1806 01:19:15,280 --> 01:19:17,600 standards in the future. With this 1807 01:19:17,600 --> 01:19:19,440 respondent submission and agreed upon 1808 01:19:19,440 --> 01:19:21,520 terms along with her legal team, the 1809 01:19:21,520 --> 01:19:23,760 divisions respectfully submits this 1810 01:19:23,760 --> 01:19:25,600 stipulation for your approval. I'm happy 1811 01:19:25,600 --> 01:19:27,199 to address any questions on this 1812 01:19:27,199 --> 01:19:30,470 stipulation. 1813 01:19:30,480 --> 01:19:34,790 » Any questions from the commission? 1814 01:19:34,800 --> 01:19:37,679 » Okay, let's let's move uh Randy. 1815 01:19:37,679 --> 01:19:39,120 Commissioner Smith. 1816 01:19:39,120 --> 01:19:41,760 >> Yes, Randy. M 1817 01:19:41,760 --> 01:19:45,040 >> Randy, you're muted. 1818 01:19:45,040 --> 01:19:46,800 >> Sorry about that. 1819 01:19:46,800 --> 01:19:48,239 Just looking at these last two 1820 01:19:48,239 --> 01:19:50,080 stipulations, 1821 01:19:50,080 --> 01:19:55,040 um it seems like this the penalty was uh 1822 01:19:55,040 --> 01:19:57,120 significantly less than I would expect. 1823 01:19:57,120 --> 01:19:59,120 And it seems like on the last one for 1824 01:19:59,120 --> 01:20:02,480 the lack of uh signed limited agency 1825 01:20:02,480 --> 01:20:05,760 consent when there had been two previous 1826 01:20:05,760 --> 01:20:08,800 ones with the same buyer, uh that one 1827 01:20:08,800 --> 01:20:12,239 seemed exceedingly harsh in my opinion. 1828 01:20:12,239 --> 01:20:15,920 And so just just curious if you have any 1829 01:20:15,920 --> 01:20:21,430 comment on that. 1830 01:20:21,440 --> 01:20:23,920 » Are you referring to my stipulations on 1831 01:20:23,920 --> 01:20:25,600 the next one with um 1832 01:20:25,600 --> 01:20:29,280 >> well both the the one previous uh what's 1833 01:20:29,280 --> 01:20:33,679 the name? uh Ashley Webb 1834 01:20:33,679 --> 01:20:36,239 was the maximum 1835 01:20:36,239 --> 01:20:41,360 amount even though there had been two 1836 01:20:41,360 --> 01:20:45,040 previous transactions with the same 1837 01:20:45,040 --> 01:20:46,960 client that had the limited agency 1838 01:20:46,960 --> 01:20:49,360 consent and they missed it on the third 1839 01:20:49,360 --> 01:20:50,880 one 1840 01:20:50,880 --> 01:20:52,800 versus this one here. Failure to 1841 01:20:52,800 --> 01:20:56,800 disclose a huge material fact 2,000 1842 01:20:56,800 --> 01:20:58,640 bucks seems like a real slap on the 1843 01:20:58,640 --> 01:20:59,760 hand. 1844 01:20:59,760 --> 01:21:01,920 Yeah, this was negotiated with legal 1845 01:21:01,920 --> 01:21:04,400 counsel with her. Um, and we took into 1846 01:21:04,400 --> 01:21:06,239 consideration it was her first offense. 1847 01:21:06,239 --> 01:21:08,800 She's never had any violations. 1848 01:21:08,800 --> 01:21:12,560 Um, and she was trying to say that she 1849 01:21:12,560 --> 01:21:15,520 it wasn't a confirmed defect, but the 1850 01:21:15,520 --> 01:21:18,320 statue, you know, specifically says you 1851 01:21:18,320 --> 01:21:20,719 just have to disclose it. So, it was 1852 01:21:20,719 --> 01:21:23,199 like a learning process. Um, so we took 1853 01:21:23,199 --> 01:21:25,920 those into consideration to uh come to 1854 01:21:25,920 --> 01:21:27,440 an agreement with council with this 1855 01:21:27,440 --> 01:21:29,360 $2,000 fine. 1856 01:21:29,360 --> 01:21:31,520 >> Thank you. And then Miss Maybe Pollock 1857 01:21:31,520 --> 01:21:34,800 can uh speak to the other one. 1858 01:21:34,800 --> 01:21:37,199 >> Um, yes, thank you. We uh had some 1859 01:21:37,199 --> 01:21:39,360 concerns with the other limited agency 1860 01:21:39,360 --> 01:21:41,520 agreements and the timing on those and 1861 01:21:41,520 --> 01:21:44,640 when those were obtained um in the 1862 01:21:44,640 --> 01:21:47,199 process. So we this was just a 1863 01:21:47,199 --> 01:21:51,280 negotiated settlement with the the uh 1864 01:21:51,280 --> 01:21:54,080 respondent admitting to the one that was 1865 01:21:54,080 --> 01:21:57,360 a a clear violation 1866 01:21:57,360 --> 01:21:59,840 um and not taking into account the other 1867 01:21:59,840 --> 01:22:03,520 two that we had some questions on. 1868 01:22:03,520 --> 01:22:07,280 And then I believe the the licensing 1869 01:22:07,280 --> 01:22:12,560 date on that was expiring. Uh and so we 1870 01:22:12,560 --> 01:22:15,360 went 2 years from the next renewal 1871 01:22:15,360 --> 01:22:18,550 cycle. 1872 01:22:18,560 --> 01:22:24,229 » Thank you. 1873 01:22:24,239 --> 01:22:26,480 » Okay. Any further questions? If if not, 1874 01:22:26,480 --> 01:22:28,880 let's go ahead with your next one. Bill. 1875 01:22:28,880 --> 01:22:30,800 >> Okay. Thank you, commissioners. In the 1876 01:22:30,800 --> 01:22:34,320 matter of Jared V. Smart at all times 1877 01:22:34,320 --> 01:22:37,760 relevant. Um the respondent Jerevy Smart 1878 01:22:37,760 --> 01:22:39,520 was licensed as a sales agent by the 1879 01:22:39,520 --> 01:22:41,120 division of real estate license number 1880 01:22:41,120 --> 01:22:43,199 5504195 1881 01:22:43,199 --> 01:22:46,000 that's A00. He has been licensed with 1882 01:22:46,000 --> 01:22:48,960 the division since April uh 2020 20 or 1883 01:22:48,960 --> 01:22:53,120 2003. So the facts of this case in or 1884 01:22:53,120 --> 01:22:55,920 about August 20th, 2024, the respondent 1885 01:22:55,920 --> 01:22:57,520 received a check in the amount of 1886 01:22:57,520 --> 01:23:01,189 17,814.14 1887 01:23:01,199 --> 01:23:04,159 issued by Banner Economics LC. The check 1888 01:23:04,159 --> 01:23:06,960 was payable to Bonnieville Realy and was 1889 01:23:06,960 --> 01:23:08,639 specifically intended to fund a new 1890 01:23:08,639 --> 01:23:10,960 business association, the Dino Crossing 1891 01:23:10,960 --> 01:23:13,520 Association for a commercial property 1892 01:23:13,520 --> 01:23:16,080 managed by the respondent in St. George, 1893 01:23:16,080 --> 01:23:18,800 Utah. Upon receipt, the respondant was 1894 01:23:18,800 --> 01:23:21,040 under a strict regulatory obligation to 1895 01:23:21,040 --> 01:23:22,560 immediately deliver the check to his 1896 01:23:22,560 --> 01:23:25,120 principal broker or deposit into a 1897 01:23:25,120 --> 01:23:26,960 designated broker's trust account. 1898 01:23:26,960 --> 01:23:29,360 Instead of fulfilling his duty, the 1899 01:23:29,360 --> 01:23:31,440 respondent failed to record or report 1900 01:23:31,440 --> 01:23:33,840 the transaction in any capacity and 1901 01:23:33,840 --> 01:23:36,239 chose to withhold the check in an office 1902 01:23:36,239 --> 01:23:38,960 check room for several months. 1903 01:23:38,960 --> 01:23:42,480 On January 2nd, 2025, the respondent 1904 01:23:42,480 --> 01:23:46,390 deposited the $17,814.14 1905 01:23:46,400 --> 01:23:48,960 check directly into his personal Golden 1906 01:23:48,960 --> 01:23:50,719 West Credit Union business checking 1907 01:23:50,719 --> 01:23:52,960 account. The account was registered 1908 01:23:52,960 --> 01:23:56,239 under the name BRMS LLC, a personal 1909 01:23:56,239 --> 01:23:58,719 entity the respondent and his wife had 1910 01:23:58,719 --> 01:24:00,480 established entirely outside of the 1911 01:24:00,480 --> 01:24:02,960 brokerage. Because this transaction was 1912 01:24:02,960 --> 01:24:04,560 bypassed and never entered to the 1913 01:24:04,560 --> 01:24:07,840 brokerage central register or QuickBook, 1914 01:24:07,840 --> 01:24:09,760 the principal broker was kept entirely 1915 01:24:09,760 --> 01:24:12,239 unaware of this existence. The 1916 01:24:12,239 --> 01:24:15,040 unauthorized diversion of funds remained 1917 01:24:15,040 --> 01:24:18,320 completely undetected until March of 26. 1918 01:24:18,320 --> 01:24:21,440 Um so a a group a new business ownership 1919 01:24:21,440 --> 01:24:23,760 um took the transition a transition took 1920 01:24:23,760 --> 01:24:25,679 place and at this time the new ownership 1921 01:24:25,679 --> 01:24:28,239 group discovered the missing funds after 1922 01:24:28,239 --> 01:24:30,239 the underlying property owner made a 1923 01:24:30,239 --> 01:24:32,560 direct inquiry regarding the status of 1924 01:24:32,560 --> 01:24:35,760 the unestablished associated account and 1925 01:24:35,760 --> 01:24:37,760 follow the discovery of the financial 1926 01:24:37,760 --> 01:24:40,080 discrepancy by the new management. The 1927 01:24:40,080 --> 01:24:42,400 respondent coordinated an emergency wire 1928 01:24:42,400 --> 01:24:45,360 transfer from his aunt to obtain a 1929 01:24:45,360 --> 01:24:47,440 Golden West Credit Union's cashiier 1930 01:24:47,440 --> 01:24:51,040 check on May 15, 2026, which he used to 1931 01:24:51,040 --> 01:24:54,320 repay the 17,81414 1932 01:24:54,320 --> 01:24:56,639 in full. While the respondent initially 1933 01:24:56,639 --> 01:24:58,400 claimed his personal deposit was a 1934 01:24:58,400 --> 01:24:59,679 temporary measure driven by 1935 01:24:59,679 --> 01:25:01,120 administrative difficulties in 1936 01:25:01,120 --> 01:25:03,600 reinstating a lapsed corporate entity, 1937 01:25:03,600 --> 01:25:06,400 text messages recovered from May 18th of 1938 01:25:06,400 --> 01:25:09,520 2026 confirmed a deliberate intentional 1939 01:25:09,520 --> 01:25:11,760 diversion of client funds. And those 1940 01:25:11,760 --> 01:25:14,080 messages responded explicitly stated, "I 1941 01:25:14,080 --> 01:25:15,920 had every intention of paying the Dino 1942 01:25:15,920 --> 01:25:18,480 Crossing Association funds when we sold 1943 01:25:18,480 --> 01:25:20,159 the house. I was going to use my 1944 01:25:20,159 --> 01:25:22,560 proceeds." The investigation revealed 1945 01:25:22,560 --> 01:25:24,960 that this was not an isolated incident. 1946 01:25:24,960 --> 01:25:27,280 During his employment, the respondent uh 1947 01:25:27,280 --> 01:25:29,280 routinely bypassed the brokerage and 1948 01:25:29,280 --> 01:25:31,360 accepted unauthorized 1949 01:25:31,360 --> 01:25:33,199 direct payments from property owners 1950 01:25:33,199 --> 01:25:36,000 into his personal BRMS account. His 1951 01:25:36,000 --> 01:25:38,000 personal transaction included 1952 01:25:38,000 --> 01:25:40,639 unauthorized Christmas bonuses and 1953 01:25:40,639 --> 01:25:44,480 approximately $75,000 construction fees. 1954 01:25:44,480 --> 01:25:46,400 In this transaction, the respondent 1955 01:25:46,400 --> 01:25:50,239 amidst the violating Utah code 612F401, 1956 01:25:50,239 --> 01:25:52,320 grounds for disciplinary action. The 1957 01:25:52,320 --> 01:25:54,239 following acts are unlawful and grounds 1958 01:25:54,239 --> 01:25:56,080 for disciplinary action or a person 1959 01:25:56,080 --> 01:25:57,840 licensed or required to be licensed 1960 01:25:57,840 --> 01:26:00,719 under this chapter. 4. A failing within 1961 01:26:00,719 --> 01:26:03,280 a reasonable time to account for or emit 1962 01:26:03,280 --> 01:26:04,880 money that belongs to another and comes 1963 01:26:04,880 --> 01:26:08,000 to a personal a person's possession. 4 B 1964 01:26:08,000 --> 01:26:10,000 comingling money described in subsection 1965 01:26:10,000 --> 01:26:12,960 4 A with a person's own money. 4 C 1966 01:26:12,960 --> 01:26:14,880 diverting money described in in 1967 01:26:14,880 --> 01:26:17,120 subsection 4A for the purpose of the 1968 01:26:17,120 --> 01:26:20,000 money received and 15 breaching a 1969 01:26:20,000 --> 01:26:22,320 fiduciary duty owed by the lency to the 1970 01:26:22,320 --> 01:26:24,080 lency's principal in a real estate 1971 01:26:24,080 --> 01:26:25,679 transaction 1972 01:26:25,679 --> 01:26:30,800 in Utah uh administrative code R1622F41A 1973 01:26:30,800 --> 01:26:32,400 affirmative duties required of a 1974 01:26:32,400 --> 01:26:34,239 licensed individual a licensed 1975 01:26:34,239 --> 01:26:36,880 individual uh an individual licency 1976 01:26:36,880 --> 01:26:39,280 shall one uphold the following fiduciary 1977 01:26:39,280 --> 01:26:41,199 duties in the course of representing a 1978 01:26:41,199 --> 01:26:42,000 principal 1979 01:26:42,000 --> 01:26:44,400 FA and accounting for any money and 1980 01:26:44,400 --> 01:26:47,120 property entrusted to the agent. 15 1981 01:26:47,120 --> 01:26:48,960 timely informed the lences principal 1982 01:26:48,960 --> 01:26:50,719 broker or branch broker real estate 1983 01:26:50,719 --> 01:26:53,520 transactions in which a the lys involved 1984 01:26:53,520 --> 01:26:56,480 an agent or principal b the lency was 1985 01:26:56,480 --> 01:26:58,080 receive funds on behalf of the principal 1986 01:26:58,080 --> 01:27:00,320 broker or c an offer has been written 1987 01:27:00,320 --> 01:27:03,440 and 24 immediately deliver uh money 1988 01:27:03,440 --> 01:27:05,199 received in a real estate transaction in 1989 01:27:05,199 --> 01:27:08,639 the principal broker for deposit. 1990 01:27:08,639 --> 01:27:10,800 In this full settlement, the division 1991 01:27:10,800 --> 01:27:13,600 proposed that the respondent sales agent 1992 01:27:13,600 --> 01:27:16,159 um license is revoked and the respondent 1993 01:27:16,159 --> 01:27:18,480 shall pay a civil penalty of $4,000 to 1994 01:27:18,480 --> 01:27:21,199 the division to be paid in a structured 1995 01:27:21,199 --> 01:27:23,760 12-month development plan beginning 30 1996 01:27:23,760 --> 01:27:25,360 days from the date of the commission and 1997 01:27:25,360 --> 01:27:27,120 director sign the final order in this 1998 01:27:27,120 --> 01:27:29,760 matter and be subject to the publication 1999 01:27:29,760 --> 01:27:31,280 of these findings in the division's 2000 01:27:31,280 --> 01:27:33,440 court of the newsletter. to provide 2001 01:27:33,440 --> 01:27:35,440 additional context uh for the 2002 01:27:35,440 --> 01:27:38,000 commission's review. The responder took 2003 01:27:38,000 --> 01:27:40,320 full responsibility and cooperated 2004 01:27:40,320 --> 01:27:42,239 during investigation and he was 2005 01:27:42,239 --> 01:27:44,400 completely forthright uh uh during the 2006 01:27:44,400 --> 01:27:47,360 investigative interview. Um he admitted 2007 01:27:47,360 --> 01:27:49,920 to taking the funds for personal use. He 2008 01:27:49,920 --> 01:27:52,159 admitted taking the Christmas bonuses 2009 01:27:52,159 --> 01:27:55,199 and the construction fee for personal 2010 01:27:55,199 --> 01:27:58,960 use. Um, but he did actually restore the 2011 01:27:58,960 --> 01:28:01,760 17,81414 2012 01:28:01,760 --> 01:28:04,400 uh back by getting the cashier's check. 2013 01:28:04,400 --> 01:28:06,560 Um, also the respondent is no longer 2014 01:28:06,560 --> 01:28:09,040 actively practicing real estate. He 2015 01:28:09,040 --> 01:28:11,840 poses no ongoing risk of public harm and 2016 01:28:11,840 --> 01:28:13,679 he fully understands his absolute 2017 01:28:13,679 --> 01:28:15,199 obligations regarding the proper 2018 01:28:15,199 --> 01:28:16,639 handling, safeguarding, immediate 2019 01:28:16,639 --> 01:28:18,080 delivery trust funds to the principal 2020 01:28:18,080 --> 01:28:20,960 broker. The 12-month payment plan is 2021 01:28:20,960 --> 01:28:22,719 requested due to the respondent's 2022 01:28:22,719 --> 01:28:26,480 financial hardship um and and mental 2023 01:28:26,480 --> 01:28:28,960 well-being as his uh real estate license 2024 01:28:28,960 --> 01:28:30,800 is being revoked. He's no longer earning 2025 01:28:30,800 --> 01:28:33,280 an income from real estate transactions 2026 01:28:33,280 --> 01:28:35,520 and he had had to rely to borrow funds 2027 01:28:35,520 --> 01:28:38,239 from his aunt to make the 17,81414 2028 01:28:38,239 --> 01:28:40,159 restitution payment. And with the 2029 01:28:40,159 --> 01:28:41,920 respondent submissions in agreed upon 2030 01:28:41,920 --> 01:28:44,239 terms, the division respectively submits 2031 01:28:44,239 --> 01:28:45,920 this stipulation for your approval. Is 2032 01:28:45,920 --> 01:28:48,560 there any questions on this stipulation? 2033 01:28:48,560 --> 01:28:52,000 Yeah, I have a question on 5C. 2034 01:28:52,000 --> 01:28:54,320 It says that if the respondent fails to 2035 01:28:54,320 --> 01:28:57,920 comply, uh, then his, uh, license shall 2036 01:28:57,920 --> 01:28:59,679 be immediately 2037 01:28:59,679 --> 01:29:02,239 suspended. So, I'm maybe I'm reading 2038 01:29:02,239 --> 01:29:04,400 that wrong, but and a it says that it's 2039 01:29:04,400 --> 01:29:08,950 being revoked. 2040 01:29:08,960 --> 01:29:10,639 » 5C. 2041 01:29:10,639 --> 01:29:16,239 Yeah, on on page four of 11, I see a C 2042 01:29:16,239 --> 01:29:18,400 that says if respondent fails to comply 2043 01:29:18,400 --> 01:29:20,719 in full, then maybe that shouldn't be in 2044 01:29:20,719 --> 01:29:22,560 there. You didn't discuss that, but it's 2045 01:29:22,560 --> 01:29:24,400 in this order 2046 01:29:24,400 --> 01:29:26,159 >> or stipulation. 2047 01:29:26,159 --> 01:29:28,400 >> Jim, I think that comes just from our 2048 01:29:28,400 --> 01:29:30,480 template and it should have been 2049 01:29:30,480 --> 01:29:32,480 removed, but I don't think it's 2050 01:29:32,480 --> 01:29:36,880 problematic. Um obviously 2051 01:29:36,880 --> 01:29:40,719 um he won't have a license to suspend. 2052 01:29:40,719 --> 01:29:41,600 >> Okay. 2053 01:29:41,600 --> 01:29:44,880 >> Yeah. Yes. But we're asking for 2054 01:29:44,880 --> 01:29:46,080 revocation. 2055 01:29:46,080 --> 01:29:47,920 >> I just wanted you to know that I 2056 01:29:47,920 --> 01:29:48,880 >> Okay. 2057 01:29:48,880 --> 01:29:49,440 >> Good. 2058 01:29:49,440 --> 01:29:52,159 >> I appreciate that. 2059 01:29:52,159 --> 01:29:53,600 >> Is there any other questions on the 2060 01:29:53,600 --> 01:29:57,750 stipulation? 2061 01:29:57,760 --> 01:29:59,679 » Okay. Then the last one. Commissioners 2062 01:29:59,679 --> 01:30:00,080 is 2063 01:30:00,080 --> 01:30:02,880 >> Marie had a question. I thought 2064 01:30:02,880 --> 01:30:06,880 >> Yes, I do. Thank you. Do we know if he 2065 01:30:06,880 --> 01:30:10,639 uh paid back the $75,000 2066 01:30:10,639 --> 01:30:13,679 as well as the Christmas bonuses? 2067 01:30:13,679 --> 01:30:17,760 >> He did not. He did not pay those back. 2068 01:30:17,760 --> 01:30:20,639 >> Is there a civil case pending? 2069 01:30:20,639 --> 01:30:24,639 >> Um I know there was a legal investig uh 2070 01:30:24,639 --> 01:30:27,280 um police investigation, but that's 2071 01:30:27,280 --> 01:30:28,639 pretty much all I know. they didn't want 2072 01:30:28,639 --> 01:30:33,760 to pursue it because the uh broker um I 2073 01:30:33,760 --> 01:30:35,280 guess apparently did want to pursue that 2074 01:30:35,280 --> 01:30:37,040 part. So the only evidence we had is 2075 01:30:37,040 --> 01:30:42,239 what with this um the 14 the $17,000 2076 01:30:42,239 --> 01:30:44,960 check. So I'm not sure. 2077 01:30:44,960 --> 01:30:45,920 >> Thank you. 2078 01:30:45,920 --> 01:30:51,990 >> Mhm. You're [clears throat] welcome. 2079 01:30:52,000 --> 01:30:53,440 » Okay. If there's no other questions, the 2080 01:30:53,440 --> 01:30:55,520 last one is a matter of Justin Rogers 2081 01:30:55,520 --> 01:30:57,360 stipulation. 2082 01:30:57,360 --> 01:30:59,520 So at all times relevant, respondent 2083 01:30:59,520 --> 01:31:01,920 Justin Rogers was licensed as a sales 2084 01:31:01,920 --> 01:31:04,000 agent by the division of real estate 2085 01:31:04,000 --> 01:31:07,280 license number 9498075 2086 01:31:07,280 --> 01:31:09,600 SAE0000. He has been licensed with the 2087 01:31:09,600 --> 01:31:13,120 division since August of 2015. 2088 01:31:13,120 --> 01:31:15,280 So at all times relevant also the 2089 01:31:15,280 --> 01:31:17,040 complaintant is also a licensed real 2090 01:31:17,040 --> 01:31:18,960 estate agent with the division of real 2091 01:31:18,960 --> 01:31:21,280 estate and the complaintant's employer 2092 01:31:21,280 --> 01:31:24,320 was an active real estate um brokerage 2093 01:31:24,320 --> 01:31:26,960 in the state of Utah. 2094 01:31:26,960 --> 01:31:30,239 uh in 20 2022 2095 01:31:30,239 --> 01:31:31,760 the complaintant established a 2096 01:31:31,760 --> 01:31:34,000 friendship with a mutual acquaintance of 2097 01:31:34,000 --> 01:31:36,639 the respondent. The mutual acquaintance 2098 01:31:36,639 --> 01:31:38,400 had previously been in a committed 2099 01:31:38,400 --> 01:31:41,199 relationship with a respondent which had 2100 01:31:41,199 --> 01:31:46,800 been you know concluded but during that they worked together. So do 2101 01:31:46,800 --> 01:31:49,280 this. The dispute escalated on March 2102 01:31:49,280 --> 01:31:53,040 21st, 2026 after respondent learned that 2103 01:31:53,040 --> 01:31:54,719 the complaintant and the mutual 2104 01:31:54,719 --> 01:31:56,320 acquaintance had spent the evening 2105 01:31:56,320 --> 01:31:59,040 together. The respondent sent hostile 2106 01:31:59,040 --> 01:32:01,520 text messages to the complaintant that 2107 01:32:01,520 --> 01:32:03,760 included the photograph and and the 2108 01:32:03,760 --> 01:32:05,520 mutual acquaintance and personal 2109 01:32:05,520 --> 01:32:07,679 accusations labeling the complaintant a 2110 01:32:07,679 --> 01:32:09,920 home record. Uh, crucially, these 2111 01:32:09,920 --> 01:32:12,159 initial messages also contain an 2112 01:32:12,159 --> 01:32:14,800 explicit thread uh to contact the 2113 01:32:14,800 --> 01:32:17,280 complaintant's brokerage employer as 2114 01:32:17,280 --> 01:32:18,960 part of their deliberate effort to ruin 2115 01:32:18,960 --> 01:32:20,239 the complaintant's professional 2116 01:32:20,239 --> 01:32:23,120 reputation. Over the following week, the 2117 01:32:23,120 --> 01:32:25,840 harassment intensified on March 28th and 2118 01:32:25,840 --> 01:32:28,800 29th, 2026. The respondant used a 2119 01:32:28,800 --> 01:32:30,560 secondary phone number to bypass 2120 01:32:30,560 --> 01:32:32,560 barriers and send explicit intimate 2121 01:32:32,560 --> 01:32:35,280 videos of himself and the mutual 2122 01:32:35,280 --> 01:32:36,400 acquaintance directly to the 2123 01:32:36,400 --> 01:32:39,280 complaintant's phone. After this uh same 2124 01:32:39,280 --> 01:32:41,040 time, the respondent access to mutual 2125 01:32:41,040 --> 01:32:43,199 acquaintance business Instagram account 2126 01:32:43,199 --> 01:32:46,000 without authorization. He utilized this 2127 01:32:46,000 --> 01:32:49,840 business platform to publish multiple 2128 01:32:49,840 --> 01:32:52,080 defamatory posts containing personal 2129 01:32:52,080 --> 01:32:54,400 accusations against the complaintant. To 2130 01:32:54,400 --> 01:32:57,120 ensure maximum professional exposure, 2131 01:32:57,120 --> 01:32:59,440 the per uh respondent linked and tagged 2132 01:32:59,440 --> 01:33:00,800 these posts directly to the 2133 01:33:00,800 --> 01:33:02,320 complaintant's personal Instagram 2134 01:33:02,320 --> 01:33:04,719 account and the official Instagram 2135 01:33:04,719 --> 01:33:06,800 account of the complaintant's brokerage 2136 01:33:06,800 --> 01:33:10,960 employer, specifically targeting the brokerage management to 2137 01:33:10,960 --> 01:33:13,199 draw them into the personal dispute, 2138 01:33:13,199 --> 01:33:14,880 which became professional when he did 2139 01:33:14,880 --> 01:33:17,440 this. Following these uh targeted 2140 01:33:17,440 --> 01:33:19,840 messages in a public social media post, 2141 01:33:19,840 --> 01:33:21,280 the complaintant contacted law 2142 01:33:21,280 --> 01:33:23,199 enforcement and petitioned the court for 2143 01:33:23,199 --> 01:33:28,000 protective relief. On April 22nd, 2026, 2144 01:33:28,000 --> 01:33:30,159 uh the district court formally entered a 2145 01:33:30,159 --> 01:33:32,080 civil stalking injunction against a 2146 01:33:32,080 --> 01:33:34,639 respondent armed with this protective 2147 01:33:34,639 --> 01:33:36,320 order. Then the complaintant came to the 2148 01:33:36,320 --> 01:33:38,719 division and filed a complaint on Mar uh 2149 01:33:38,719 --> 01:33:41,360 May 13, 2026. 2150 01:33:41,360 --> 01:33:43,840 In a written response and subsequent 2151 01:33:43,840 --> 01:33:45,920 interview with the respondent, he 2152 01:33:45,920 --> 01:33:48,080 admitted to entirety of all the 2153 01:33:48,080 --> 01:33:50,880 allegations. He confessed in sending the 2154 01:33:50,880 --> 01:33:53,040 harassing text text messages and 2155 01:33:53,040 --> 01:33:55,679 explicit videos from his primary phone 2156 01:33:55,679 --> 01:33:58,080 and secondary phone and admitted to 2157 01:33:58,080 --> 01:34:00,320 hijacking the business Instagram account 2158 01:34:00,320 --> 01:34:02,719 to defame the complaintant and target 2159 01:34:02,719 --> 01:34:04,400 the complaintant's employer. The 2160 01:34:04,400 --> 01:34:06,639 respondent also admitted that he lied 2161 01:34:06,639 --> 01:34:08,719 under oath while testifying during the 2162 01:34:08,719 --> 01:34:10,719 evidentiary court hearing for the civil 2163 01:34:10,719 --> 01:34:13,280 stalking junction. 2164 01:34:13,280 --> 01:34:14,880 And in this matter, the respondant 2165 01:34:14,880 --> 01:34:19,280 admits to violating Utah code 612F4116, 2166 01:34:19,280 --> 01:34:21,360 grounds for disciplinary action. The 2167 01:34:21,360 --> 01:34:22,800 following acts are unlawful on grounds 2168 01:34:22,800 --> 01:34:24,320 for disciplinary action for a person 2169 01:34:24,320 --> 01:34:26,000 licensed to require a license under his 2170 01:34:26,000 --> 01:34:29,120 chapter subsection 16. Any other conduct 2171 01:34:29,120 --> 01:34:31,040 with with constitutes dishonest 2172 01:34:31,040 --> 01:34:34,159 dealings. um and Utah administrative 2173 01:34:34,159 --> 01:34:37,120 code R1622041B 2174 01:34:37,120 --> 01:34:39,760 prohibited conduct as as applicable to a 2175 01:34:39,760 --> 01:34:42,080 licensed individual. One, an individual 2176 01:34:42,080 --> 01:34:44,880 license may not engage in any practices 2177 01:34:44,880 --> 01:34:48,320 uh described in section 61241 2178 01:34:48,320 --> 01:34:49,760 and the following sections whether 2179 01:34:49,760 --> 01:34:52,000 acting as an agent or on the license on 2180 01:34:52,000 --> 01:34:54,719 account in a matter that one fails to 2181 01:34:54,719 --> 01:34:56,320 conform with the accepted standards of 2182 01:34:56,320 --> 01:34:58,639 real estate licensing or sales, leasing 2183 01:34:58,639 --> 01:35:00,800 and management industries and two could 2184 01:35:00,800 --> 01:35:02,400 jeopardize a public health, safety and 2185 01:35:02,400 --> 01:35:04,320 welfare and three violates any 2186 01:35:04,320 --> 01:35:07,280 provisions of title 61 chapter 2F or the 2187 01:35:07,280 --> 01:35:09,760 rules of this chapter. 2188 01:35:09,760 --> 01:35:11,520 So, in full settlement of this matter, 2189 01:35:11,520 --> 01:35:12,880 commissioners, the division proposed 2190 01:35:12,880 --> 01:35:15,440 that the respondent pay a civil penalty 2191 01:35:15,440 --> 01:35:18,719 of $3,000 to division via structured 2192 01:35:18,719 --> 01:35:20,480 again 12-month installment plan 2193 01:35:20,480 --> 01:35:22,159 beginning 30 days from the date the 2194 01:35:22,159 --> 01:35:23,760 commission and director sign the final 2195 01:35:23,760 --> 01:35:26,159 order this matter. complete a minimum of 2196 01:35:26,159 --> 01:35:28,239 three hours of continuing education 2197 01:35:28,239 --> 01:35:30,400 specifically focused on Utah law 2198 01:35:30,400 --> 01:35:32,000 providing a comprehensive review of 2199 01:35:32,000 --> 01:35:34,239 statutes and rules applicable to real 2200 01:35:34,239 --> 01:35:36,639 estate licences which shall not count 2201 01:35:36,639 --> 01:35:38,639 toward a renewal cycle and is subject to 2202 01:35:38,639 --> 01:35:40,560 the publication of these findings in the 2203 01:35:40,560 --> 01:35:43,040 division's quarterly newsletter and to 2204 01:35:43,040 --> 01:35:45,520 provide additional contact or context 2205 01:35:45,520 --> 01:35:48,080 with the fees and the 12 uh month 2206 01:35:48,080 --> 01:35:50,719 payment plan etc. Um, the respondent 2207 01:35:50,719 --> 01:35:52,560 took responsibility and cooperated 2208 01:35:52,560 --> 01:35:53,760 during the investigation by 2209 01:35:53,760 --> 01:35:56,320 acknowledging his misconduct, expressing 2210 01:35:56,320 --> 01:35:58,960 sincere remorse uh for acting out in the 2211 01:35:58,960 --> 01:36:01,440 heat of passion and submitted a written 2212 01:36:01,440 --> 01:36:03,840 statement taking full accountability. He 2213 01:36:03,840 --> 01:36:05,440 is entirely forthright during the 2214 01:36:05,440 --> 01:36:07,120 recorded interview, explaining that he 2215 01:36:07,120 --> 01:36:09,600 lied under oath out of fear to protect 2216 01:36:09,600 --> 01:36:11,440 his clean record nearly 11 years with 2217 01:36:11,440 --> 01:36:13,920 the division. He also understands that 2218 01:36:13,920 --> 01:36:15,679 it was a severe act with dishonest 2219 01:36:15,679 --> 01:36:17,760 dealings that he that could imple 2220 01:36:17,760 --> 01:36:19,600 directly impact his fitness to hold a 2221 01:36:19,600 --> 01:36:21,360 professional license by lying under 2222 01:36:21,360 --> 01:36:24,239 oath. He is requesting a structured 2223 01:36:24,239 --> 01:36:26,239 12-month installment plan to 2224 01:36:26,239 --> 01:36:28,400 systematically satisfy his financial 2225 01:36:28,400 --> 01:36:30,719 obligation to the division demonstrating 2226 01:36:30,719 --> 01:36:32,560 his ongoing commitment to full 2227 01:36:32,560 --> 01:36:34,320 compliance and resolving this matter in 2228 01:36:34,320 --> 01:36:36,560 cooperative manner. There was no missing 2229 01:36:36,560 --> 01:36:39,040 funds. There's no property damage. Um 2230 01:36:39,040 --> 01:36:40,960 and then there has been no contact 2231 01:36:40,960 --> 01:36:42,400 between the parties since his double 2232 01:36:42,400 --> 01:36:44,560 civil stock double stalking injunction 2233 01:36:44,560 --> 01:36:46,800 was issued and the respondent fully 2234 01:36:46,800 --> 01:36:48,560 understands his obligations regarding 2235 01:36:48,560 --> 01:36:50,320 professional standard honesty and 2236 01:36:50,320 --> 01:36:52,560 truthfulness under oath. While the 2237 01:36:52,560 --> 01:36:54,239 respondent submission in agreed upon 2238 01:36:54,239 --> 01:36:56,000 terms, the division respectfully submits 2239 01:36:56,000 --> 01:36:58,080 this stipulation for your approval. I'm 2240 01:36:58,080 --> 01:36:59,840 happy to address any questions with this 2241 01:36:59,840 --> 01:37:05,270 stipulation. 2242 01:37:05,280 --> 01:37:12,950 » Okay. Um, 2243 01:37:12,960 --> 01:37:15,119 there's no questions on that. Does that 2244 01:37:15,119 --> 01:37:17,920 It looks like that concludes our 2245 01:37:17,920 --> 01:37:19,920 stipulations. 2246 01:37:19,920 --> 01:37:20,480 >> Thank you. 2247 01:37:20,480 --> 01:37:26,719 >> Um, thank you. Um, okay. 2248 01:37:26,719 --> 01:37:30,719 Looks like we've got now a one hour uh 2249 01:37:30,719 --> 01:37:35,199 informal licensing hearing. Um, 2250 01:37:35,199 --> 01:37:38,080 want to let's see, we're 10 We're almost 2251 01:37:38,080 --> 01:37:40,480 10:40. Want to take a 10-minute break 2252 01:37:40,480 --> 01:37:42,800 before we start that informal licensing 2253 01:37:42,800 --> 01:37:46,800 hearing? Are the uh uh 2254 01:37:46,800 --> 01:37:52,719 is uh is Mr. Walker uh present? 2255 01:37:52,719 --> 01:37:53,840 >> Yeah, I'm here. 2256 01:37:53,840 --> 01:37:56,239 >> Okay. All right. We'll uh we'll pause 2257 01:37:56,239 --> 01:37:57,840 for 10 minutes and then we'll uh 2258 01:37:57,840 --> 01:38:00,000 reconvene and and start the informal 2259 01:38:00,000 --> 01:49:50,229 hearing. Thank you. 2260 01:49:50,239 --> 01:49:52,960 Okay, looks like we're there. We are, 2261 01:49:52,960 --> 01:49:55,760 Jim. Okay. Um, 2262 01:49:55,760 --> 01:49:59,360 this is uh is the time now for the 2263 01:49:59,360 --> 01:50:01,679 informal licensing hearing in the matter 2264 01:50:01,679 --> 01:50:04,800 of the application of uh Jaden Riley 2265 01:50:04,800 --> 01:50:08,239 Walker to act as an associate broker. 2266 01:50:08,239 --> 01:50:11,830 Um, 2267 01:50:11,840 --> 01:50:15,199 In this proceeding, uh the division 2268 01:50:15,199 --> 01:50:18,320 director Vette will act as the presiding 2269 01:50:18,320 --> 01:50:20,239 officer. 2270 01:50:20,239 --> 01:50:22,639 Um 2271 01:50:22,639 --> 01:50:25,520 and and 2272 01:50:25,520 --> 01:50:30,149 see so 2273 01:50:30,159 --> 01:50:35,280 Mr. Walker, are you here and ready to to 2274 01:50:35,280 --> 01:50:36,960 proceed? 2275 01:50:36,960 --> 01:50:40,560 >> Uh yeah. Do I just get right into it? 2276 01:50:40,560 --> 01:50:43,040 >> Well, well, let's see. Is Director Vette 2277 01:50:43,040 --> 01:50:44,239 on? 2278 01:50:44,239 --> 01:50:45,440 >> Yes, Chair. 2279 01:50:45,440 --> 01:50:48,000 >> Okay. Um, we'll let we'll let the 2280 01:50:48,000 --> 01:50:50,960 director explain the uh the the the 2281 01:50:50,960 --> 01:50:54,480 process and then we'll uh we'll hear 2282 01:50:54,480 --> 01:50:58,960 from uh we'll we'll proceed accordingly. 2283 01:50:58,960 --> 01:51:02,400 >> Thank you, Chair Southwick. Um, as the 2284 01:51:02,400 --> 01:51:05,040 chair indicated, uh, we're here, uh, for 2285 01:51:05,040 --> 01:51:06,400 a hearing in the matter of the 2286 01:51:06,400 --> 01:51:09,119 application of Jaden Riley Walker to act 2287 01:51:09,119 --> 01:51:12,000 as an associate broker. The docket 2288 01:51:12,000 --> 01:51:14,080 number assigned to this matter is 2289 01:51:14,080 --> 01:51:19,109 RE202670. 2290 01:51:19,119 --> 01:51:23,119 This is a licensing hearing. Um, 2291 01:51:23,119 --> 01:51:25,040 basically what that means is that we are 2292 01:51:25,040 --> 01:51:28,080 here upon the request of Mr. Walker for 2293 01:51:28,080 --> 01:51:31,040 the commission to um consider his 2294 01:51:31,040 --> 01:51:35,280 application denovo. Um which means as if 2295 01:51:35,280 --> 01:51:38,400 uh the underlying decision um by the 2296 01:51:38,400 --> 01:51:40,560 division had had not occurred, the 2297 01:51:40,560 --> 01:51:42,480 commission is is making a decision on 2298 01:51:42,480 --> 01:51:45,440 their own based on on materials and this 2299 01:51:45,440 --> 01:51:48,320 hearing. Um this has been designated as 2300 01:51:48,320 --> 01:51:51,280 an informal proceeding under the Utah 2301 01:51:51,280 --> 01:51:53,360 Administrative Procedures Act and 2302 01:51:53,360 --> 01:51:56,080 associated rules. Uh my name is Lee 2303 01:51:56,080 --> 01:51:58,159 Veet. I'm the division director and I'll 2304 01:51:58,159 --> 01:52:00,080 be serving as the presiding officer in 2305 01:52:00,080 --> 01:52:02,239 this hearing. Um, which basically means 2306 01:52:02,239 --> 01:52:04,719 I'm just here to facilitate and and 2307 01:52:04,719 --> 01:52:09,440 conduct the hearing. Um, we uh this 2308 01:52:09,440 --> 01:52:11,599 hearing has been allocated for 1 hour. 2309 01:52:11,599 --> 01:52:15,599 It is now 10:52 a.m. So, the hearing 2310 01:52:15,599 --> 01:52:20,480 needs to conclude um at or before 11:52 2311 01:52:20,480 --> 01:52:23,440 a.m. So, I would ask that um all parties 2312 01:52:23,440 --> 01:52:28,400 be mindful um of that time frame. Um and 2313 01:52:28,400 --> 01:52:30,560 Mr. Walker, you indicated that you are 2314 01:52:30,560 --> 01:52:33,840 present, correct? 2315 01:52:33,840 --> 01:52:35,119 >> Yep. 2316 01:52:35,119 --> 01:52:38,080 >> Okay. And uh who do we have here on 2317 01:52:38,080 --> 01:52:39,920 behalf of the division? 2318 01:52:39,920 --> 01:52:44,880 >> Tyler Huff. Okay, wonderful. Um, 2319 01:52:44,880 --> 01:52:47,679 do we have uh Mr. Walker, do you have 2320 01:52:47,679 --> 01:52:50,800 any witnesses that you plan to call um 2321 01:52:50,800 --> 01:52:53,199 during the hearing uh so that we can get 2322 01:52:53,199 --> 01:52:55,360 them sworn in? 2323 01:52:55,360 --> 01:52:56,400 >> No. 2324 01:52:56,400 --> 01:52:58,639 >> Okay. Mr. Huff, do you have any 2325 01:52:58,639 --> 01:53:00,400 witnesses you plan to call during the 2326 01:53:00,400 --> 01:53:01,920 hearing that you would like to get sworn 2327 01:53:01,920 --> 01:53:02,800 in? 2328 01:53:02,800 --> 01:53:06,880 >> We have uh Jaden Walker listed, but uh 2329 01:53:06,880 --> 01:53:10,239 so we may have some questions for him. 2330 01:53:10,239 --> 01:53:13,040 Okay. Um, Mr. Walker, let's go ahead and 2331 01:53:13,040 --> 01:53:15,199 get you sworn in at this time just so we 2332 01:53:15,199 --> 01:53:18,159 can get that out of the way. Um, if you 2333 01:53:18,159 --> 01:53:20,000 could could you please turn your camera 2334 01:53:20,000 --> 01:53:21,840 on for the hearing? 2335 01:53:21,840 --> 01:53:24,800 >> Uh, this computer doesn't have a camera. 2336 01:53:24,800 --> 01:53:26,400 Unfortunately, 2337 01:53:26,400 --> 01:53:29,520 I can uh I can tell you I'm raising my 2338 01:53:29,520 --> 01:53:33,040 right hand. If that 2339 01:53:33,040 --> 01:53:35,520 >> that should be sufficient. Uh, Mr. 2340 01:53:35,520 --> 01:53:37,199 Barney, the division's hearing officer, 2341 01:53:37,199 --> 01:53:39,440 will swear you in. 2342 01:53:39,440 --> 01:53:42,560 Yes. Thank you. So, Mr. Walker, will you 2343 01:53:42,560 --> 01:53:44,320 please raise your right hand? 2344 01:53:44,320 --> 01:53:45,679 >> Okay, it's raised. 2345 01:53:45,679 --> 01:53:47,679 >> Do you solemnly swear or affirm under 2346 01:53:47,679 --> 01:53:49,679 penalty of perjury that the testimony 2347 01:53:49,679 --> 01:53:51,199 you're about to give in this proceeding 2348 01:53:51,199 --> 01:53:54,320 is the truth and nothing but the truth? 2349 01:53:54,320 --> 01:53:55,360 >> Yes. 2350 01:53:55,360 --> 01:53:57,440 >> Thank you. 2351 01:53:57,440 --> 01:54:00,719 >> Okay. Thank you. Um, so because we are 2352 01:54:00,719 --> 01:54:03,119 here on Mr. Walker's request, he he 2353 01:54:03,119 --> 01:54:04,960 bears what's called the burden of proof 2354 01:54:04,960 --> 01:54:07,840 in this matter. So um the order of these 2355 01:54:07,840 --> 01:54:10,400 proceedings is going to proceed with Mr. 2356 01:54:10,400 --> 01:54:12,800 Walker going first and then the division 2357 01:54:12,800 --> 01:54:16,800 going second uh to reflect that um that 2358 01:54:16,800 --> 01:54:21,920 burden. Um we will start right now with 2359 01:54:21,920 --> 01:54:25,199 just opening remarks. Mr. Walker, do you 2360 01:54:25,199 --> 01:54:26,960 have any opening remarks you would like 2361 01:54:26,960 --> 01:54:29,119 to make to the commission at this time? 2362 01:54:29,119 --> 01:54:30,639 >> Uh yes. I'm actually going to be 2363 01:54:30,639 --> 01:54:33,760 requesting a 60-day continuance. Uh, I 2364 01:54:33,760 --> 01:54:35,679 turned in a grandma request through the 2365 01:54:35,679 --> 01:54:38,880 state of Utah on May 7th and it was 2366 01:54:38,880 --> 01:54:42,320 assigned to Tyler Huff on May 13th and I 2367 01:54:42,320 --> 01:54:44,320 did not get a response to that grandma 2368 01:54:44,320 --> 01:54:49,119 request until July 13th at 5:27 p.m. So, 2369 01:54:49,119 --> 01:54:50,719 I have not been able to present anything 2370 01:54:50,719 --> 01:54:54,000 to my legal counsel to then show up to 2371 01:54:54,000 --> 01:54:57,599 this and represent me. So, I have a 2372 01:54:57,599 --> 01:55:00,239 30-day period to appeal the grandma 2373 01:55:00,239 --> 01:55:03,599 request answer and then from there, um, 2374 01:55:03,599 --> 01:55:06,239 I need to get that to my lawyer. 2375 01:55:06,239 --> 01:55:09,280 >> Um, so, Mr. Walker, were you in receipt 2376 01:55:09,280 --> 01:55:14,080 of the hearing packet and exhibit list 2377 01:55:14,080 --> 01:55:16,000 um, 2378 01:55:16,000 --> 01:55:18,960 compiled by the division in this matter? 2379 01:55:18,960 --> 01:55:21,840 >> Tyler Huff did send me that July 13th at 2380 01:55:21,840 --> 01:55:23,920 5:27 p.m., 2381 01:55:23,920 --> 01:55:26,639 >> which was this just Monday. 2382 01:55:26,639 --> 01:55:28,719 Mr. Huffer, Mr. Barney, do you have any 2383 01:55:28,719 --> 01:55:31,119 additional context to add? 2384 01:55:31,119 --> 01:55:35,119 >> Yeah, I can respond to that. So, um, the 2385 01:55:35,119 --> 01:55:39,040 reason why we the grammar request, um, 2386 01:55:39,040 --> 01:55:40,639 took a little bit longer was because we 2387 01:55:40,639 --> 01:55:43,119 were trying to resolve some questions 2388 01:55:43,119 --> 01:55:46,320 with the documents before we responded. 2389 01:55:46,320 --> 01:55:48,639 That being said, the documents that were 2390 01:55:48,639 --> 01:55:51,280 available in the grammar to submit 2391 01:55:51,280 --> 01:55:53,440 through the grammar request were always 2392 01:55:53,440 --> 01:55:55,920 available to Mr. Walker. So it would 2393 01:55:55,920 --> 01:55:59,280 have been the order from May 1st which 2394 01:55:59,280 --> 01:56:02,800 he was provided a copy with and the um 2395 01:56:02,800 --> 01:56:05,440 district court's order granting motion 2396 01:56:05,440 --> 01:56:07,679 for default judgment which were which 2397 01:56:07,679 --> 01:56:09,280 are publicly available through the 2398 01:56:09,280 --> 01:56:12,719 court's website. Um that being said um 2399 01:56:12,719 --> 01:56:14,639 if Mr. Walker wishes to continue the 2400 01:56:14,639 --> 01:56:18,400 hearing then the division won't object. 2401 01:56:18,400 --> 01:56:20,800 >> Thank you Mr. Huff. Commissioners any 2402 01:56:20,800 --> 01:56:24,080 questions or comments? Ultimately, it's 2403 01:56:24,080 --> 01:56:27,199 the commission's decision um on whether 2404 01:56:27,199 --> 01:56:29,599 to grant Mr. Walker's continuence. Oh, 2405 01:56:29,599 --> 01:56:31,440 sorry, Mr. Barney. Please proceed. 2406 01:56:31,440 --> 01:56:33,119 >> Thank you. Yes, you asked me also for 2407 01:56:33,119 --> 01:56:36,320 some context. So, I've had several phone 2408 01:56:36,320 --> 01:56:39,599 conversations with Mr. Walker. Uh he 2409 01:56:39,599 --> 01:56:43,119 called after the uh order that the 2410 01:56:43,119 --> 01:56:46,719 division entered uh was provided to him 2411 01:56:46,719 --> 01:56:49,760 and asked about his uh right to have 2412 01:56:49,760 --> 01:56:52,080 that order reviewed. So that that 2413 01:56:52,080 --> 01:56:53,760 happened 2414 01:56:53,760 --> 01:56:57,280 uh two or more months ago. Don't know 2415 01:56:57,280 --> 01:57:00,400 the exact timing. And and so we have 2416 01:57:00,400 --> 01:57:02,400 been in touch and he's been aware and we 2417 01:57:02,400 --> 01:57:06,560 appreciate his appearance today. As uh 2418 01:57:06,560 --> 01:57:09,599 Mr. Huff indicated, we don't necessarily 2419 01:57:09,599 --> 01:57:11,599 oppose the 2420 01:57:11,599 --> 01:57:14,080 uh extension of this date for the 2421 01:57:14,080 --> 01:57:15,679 hearing. 2422 01:57:15,679 --> 01:57:18,560 I would like to say that we know that in 2423 01:57:18,560 --> 01:57:22,239 August there's an an opportunity to hear 2424 01:57:22,239 --> 01:57:24,639 that at the uh August meeting of the 2425 01:57:24,639 --> 01:57:27,040 commission. After that 2426 01:57:27,040 --> 01:57:29,199 uh it would have to be scheduled 2427 01:57:29,199 --> 01:57:31,599 according to the commission's schedule 2428 01:57:31,599 --> 01:57:35,119 and it it might happen in in September 2429 01:57:35,119 --> 01:57:37,840 which would be 60 days or it could 2430 01:57:37,840 --> 01:57:40,880 stretch out longer. Uh in the meantime 2431 01:57:40,880 --> 01:57:43,920 the order is in place which places uh 2432 01:57:43,920 --> 01:57:46,239 Mr. Walker's license on probation. So, 2433 01:57:46,239 --> 01:57:49,520 that won't change. But again, uh we 2434 01:57:49,520 --> 01:57:52,719 appreciate his desire to 2435 01:57:52,719 --> 01:57:55,599 um have some time to review these 2436 01:57:55,599 --> 01:57:58,320 documents even though the the uh two 2437 01:57:58,320 --> 01:58:00,080 that we believe are responsive to his 2438 01:58:00,080 --> 01:58:02,159 grammar request 2439 01:58:02,159 --> 01:58:04,880 are the order that was mailed to him and 2440 01:58:04,880 --> 01:58:06,880 he did receive. We talked about that. 2441 01:58:06,880 --> 01:58:10,000 and the court order, a judge's signed 2442 01:58:10,000 --> 01:58:13,920 order in a civil matter that was 2443 01:58:13,920 --> 01:58:16,320 provided to him through the court 2444 01:58:16,320 --> 01:58:18,880 process and and available to him or to 2445 01:58:18,880 --> 01:58:22,159 anybody in the public through uh contact 2446 01:58:22,159 --> 01:58:26,639 with that court. Um so again, we can do 2447 01:58:26,639 --> 01:58:30,000 that. Oh, I also spoke to him about 2448 01:58:30,000 --> 01:58:32,400 counsel as I understand he has not 2449 01:58:32,400 --> 01:58:34,560 retained counsel. 2450 01:58:34,560 --> 01:58:37,119 uh if he does want to be represented by 2451 01:58:37,119 --> 01:58:39,520 council, he's entitled to that, but his 2452 01:58:39,520 --> 01:58:42,560 council will need to uh contact uh the 2453 01:58:42,560 --> 01:58:47,920 division and provide a uh information to 2454 01:58:47,920 --> 01:58:50,000 us and indicate that he will be 2455 01:58:50,000 --> 01:58:51,722 representing Mr. Walker at 2456 01:58:51,722 --> 01:58:53,840 [clears throat] in this matter. 2457 01:58:53,840 --> 01:58:56,159 >> Thank you, Mr. Barney. Um, commissioners 2458 01:58:56,159 --> 01:58:58,320 and uh, commissions council, assistant 2459 01:58:58,320 --> 01:58:59,840 attorney general Clark, do y'all have 2460 01:58:59,840 --> 01:59:03,280 any questions, um, comments, uh, 2461 01:59:03,280 --> 01:59:09,030 thoughts on on continuence? 2462 01:59:09,040 --> 01:59:12,080 » I I'm fine deferring to the count to uh 2463 01:59:12,080 --> 01:59:15,119 to the commission here. Um, if there are 2464 01:59:15,119 --> 01:59:21,119 materials that Mr. Walker feels like he needs to review and the division is 2465 01:59:21,119 --> 01:59:24,320 fine continuing. Um I don't see a 2466 01:59:24,320 --> 01:59:25,599 problem with that. I mean, as Justin 2467 01:59:25,599 --> 01:59:27,440 said, the order does stay in effect 2468 01:59:27,440 --> 01:59:29,119 during that time. So, it's not like by 2469 01:59:29,119 --> 01:59:32,000 granting a continuence, the uh probation 2470 01:59:32,000 --> 01:59:33,440 is lifted or anything like that. It 2471 01:59:33,440 --> 01:59:35,119 stays in effect and as long as Mr. 2472 01:59:35,119 --> 01:59:38,800 Walker understands that, um I think 2473 01:59:38,800 --> 01:59:40,080 that's fine. It's just a decision for 2474 01:59:40,080 --> 01:59:45,669 the commission to make. 2475 01:59:45,679 --> 01:59:48,239 » So, Mr. Walker, are you are you 2476 01:59:48,239 --> 01:59:51,920 anticipating I mean it it sounds like 2477 01:59:51,920 --> 01:59:54,560 there are no documents in addition to 2478 01:59:54,560 --> 01:59:57,840 the ones that you've received or have 2479 01:59:57,840 --> 02:00:00,320 had access to. Are you thinking there's 2480 02:00:00,320 --> 02:00:03,280 something else uh that you're going to 2481 02:00:03,280 --> 02:00:07,920 uh get in addition to that? Go ahead and 2482 02:00:07,920 --> 02:00:10,800 unmute yourself. So, there was things in 2483 02:00:10,800 --> 02:00:12,719 that grandma request that were denied 2484 02:00:12,719 --> 02:00:14,239 and that's why I need to appeal it 2485 02:00:14,239 --> 02:00:16,000 because it will help my case in this 2486 02:00:16,000 --> 02:00:19,199 hearing. Um, and I just want to clarify, 2487 02:00:19,199 --> 02:00:21,199 Mr. Barney and I have not had several 2488 02:00:21,199 --> 02:00:24,000 conversations. We've had two phone calls 2489 02:00:24,000 --> 02:00:26,320 this year together. One was when I was 2490 02:00:26,320 --> 02:00:28,960 put on probation asking why, and then 2491 02:00:28,960 --> 02:00:32,000 the other one was on July 13th at like 2492 02:00:32,000 --> 02:00:34,880 3:00 when he was asking if we were still 2493 02:00:34,880 --> 02:00:37,040 good for the hearing. I just wanted to 2494 02:00:37,040 --> 02:00:38,639 clarify. We haven't been in 2495 02:00:38,639 --> 02:00:43,430 communication seven times. 2496 02:00:43,440 --> 02:00:45,760 » Mr. Barney, you have your hand raised. 2497 02:00:45,760 --> 02:00:50,400 >> Uh, yes. So, the I think what Mr. Walker 2498 02:00:50,400 --> 02:00:53,199 is saying, those are correct statements. 2499 02:00:53,199 --> 02:01:01,199 The issue is uh also on his uh grammar request. It it references 2500 02:01:01,199 --> 02:01:04,960 this case, but it it asks for uh 2501 02:01:04,960 --> 02:01:07,599 documents that are not part of this 2502 02:01:07,599 --> 02:01:09,920 case. There is a separate investigation 2503 02:01:09,920 --> 02:01:12,239 that the division is undertaking 2504 02:01:12,239 --> 02:01:15,440 regarding possible violations of Utah 2505 02:01:15,440 --> 02:01:18,239 law and administrative rules and and 2506 02:01:18,239 --> 02:01:22,560 that is not part of of u this particular 2507 02:01:22,560 --> 02:01:25,920 proceeding. And so I I think uh there 2508 02:01:25,920 --> 02:01:28,400 would need to be a separate 2509 02:01:28,400 --> 02:01:32,960 uh well he he can re he can appeal that 2510 02:01:32,960 --> 02:01:35,760 but again that is related to a separate 2511 02:01:35,760 --> 02:01:38,239 matter and not to the licensing 2512 02:01:38,239 --> 02:01:40,080 case here. 2513 02:01:40,080 --> 02:01:42,000 >> Thank you 2514 02:01:42,000 --> 02:01:48,070 >> commissioners. 2515 02:01:48,080 --> 02:01:50,880 » So so 2516 02:01:50,880 --> 02:01:53,280 I I guess back to Mr. Walker. Are you 2517 02:01:53,280 --> 02:01:55,840 requesting a postponement of this 2518 02:01:55,840 --> 02:01:57,599 hearing today? 2519 02:01:57,599 --> 02:02:01,679 >> Correct. At least a 60-day 2520 02:02:01,679 --> 02:02:02,960 >> just because we have to get through the 2521 02:02:02,960 --> 02:02:04,800 appeal on the grandma request and I have 2522 02:02:04,800 --> 02:02:06,639 to present it to legal counsel and get 2523 02:02:06,639 --> 02:02:10,310 everything together. 2524 02:02:10,320 --> 02:02:12,159 » Is that something we can address here, 2525 02:02:12,159 --> 02:02:13,920 chair, or do we need to do that in 2526 02:02:13,920 --> 02:02:16,639 executive session? 2527 02:02:16,639 --> 02:02:19,040 >> Yeah, you you can address that here if 2528 02:02:19,040 --> 02:02:20,800 you'd like. 2529 02:02:20,800 --> 02:02:26,320 I'd like to make a motion that we uh 2530 02:02:26,320 --> 02:02:28,719 have this continued for at least 60 2531 02:02:28,719 --> 02:02:30,639 days. 2532 02:02:30,639 --> 02:02:32,560 >> Second. 2533 02:02:32,560 --> 02:02:36,880 >> Okay, we have a motion and a second to 2534 02:02:36,880 --> 02:02:41,119 uh continue this for at least 60 days. 2535 02:02:41,119 --> 02:02:44,800 Um is there any discussion 2536 02:02:44,800 --> 02:02:52,470 on the motion? 2537 02:02:52,480 --> 02:02:55,040 Okay. Um, 2538 02:02:55,040 --> 02:02:58,480 does this need to be a a voice vote or a 2539 02:02:58,480 --> 02:03:00,880 roll call vote? 2540 02:03:00,880 --> 02:03:02,880 >> Let's do a roll call vote. Yeah. 2541 02:03:02,880 --> 02:03:10,390 >> Make it clear. [laughter] 2542 02:03:10,400 --> 02:03:12,639 » Okay. Jim. 2543 02:03:12,639 --> 02:03:15,679 >> Yes. All right. 2544 02:03:15,679 --> 02:03:17,360 Marie 2545 02:03:17,360 --> 02:03:19,119 >> I 2546 02:03:19,119 --> 02:03:20,400 >> Randy 2547 02:03:20,400 --> 02:03:22,320 >> I 2548 02:03:22,320 --> 02:03:25,430 >> Okay. 2549 02:03:25,440 --> 02:03:33,109 Uh that is going to pass. Um 2550 02:03:33,119 --> 02:03:36,719 I'll vote I as well. So that that is 2551 02:03:36,719 --> 02:03:41,840 granted. Uh Mr. Walker will uh 2552 02:03:41,840 --> 02:03:44,880 anticipate seeing you sometime uh after 2553 02:03:44,880 --> 02:03:46,320 60 days. 2554 02:03:46,320 --> 02:03:48,400 >> Awesome. Thank you. And then will I just 2555 02:03:48,400 --> 02:03:51,760 get an email stating when it's scheduled 2556 02:03:51,760 --> 02:03:54,800 again? Is that plan? 2557 02:03:54,800 --> 02:03:56,880 >> Yes. If you if you'll uh stay in touch 2558 02:03:56,880 --> 02:04:00,719 with Tyler Huff, he will uh continue to 2559 02:04:00,719 --> 02:04:02,880 represent the division in this matter. 2560 02:04:02,880 --> 02:04:06,080 And uh the as you probably are aware the 2561 02:04:06,080 --> 02:04:10,000 commission meets once a month and so at 2562 02:04:10,000 --> 02:04:13,440 the next available commission meeting 2563 02:04:13,440 --> 02:04:16,320 uh following the 60 days we can schedule 2564 02:04:16,320 --> 02:04:19,040 that and and uh yeah just please stay in 2565 02:04:19,040 --> 02:04:23,440 touch with Mr. H. So I I don't know if 2566 02:04:23,440 --> 02:04:27,920 um I'm speaking out of turn, but uh the 2567 02:04:27,920 --> 02:04:30,800 meeting in 60 days or after 60 days 2568 02:04:30,800 --> 02:04:33,199 would be September 23rd. I don't know if 2569 02:04:33,199 --> 02:04:36,320 we want to schedule it for that meeting 2570 02:04:36,320 --> 02:04:40,080 um or if uh if Mr. Walk would prefer we 2571 02:04:40,080 --> 02:04:43,280 can just wait until he says um he wants 2572 02:04:43,280 --> 02:04:45,760 to go forward and then we can 2573 02:04:45,760 --> 02:04:48,400 >> What is the 2574 02:04:48,400 --> 02:04:51,599 >> what's the process the timing on the 2575 02:04:51,599 --> 02:04:54,320 appeal of the So there's there's been a 2576 02:04:54,320 --> 02:05:00,149 denial of the of 2577 02:05:00,159 --> 02:05:01,760 » we gave him the documents that we 2578 02:05:01,760 --> 02:05:04,159 thought were relevant but denied the 2579 02:05:04,159 --> 02:05:07,280 documents related to the separate 2580 02:05:07,280 --> 02:05:08,480 enforcement matter. matter that's 2581 02:05:08,480 --> 02:05:09,599 proceeding 2582 02:05:09,599 --> 02:05:12,159 >> and and who makes the determination on 2583 02:05:12,159 --> 02:05:15,920 the appeal of the grammar request. 2584 02:05:15,920 --> 02:05:17,199 >> That would be the Department of 2585 02:05:17,199 --> 02:05:22,080 Commerce. And so they have uh Mr. Walker 2586 02:05:22,080 --> 02:05:23,840 has 30 days from the date that he 2587 02:05:23,840 --> 02:05:26,560 received the grammar request um to 2588 02:05:26,560 --> 02:05:29,679 appeal. And then uh I'm not sure how 2589 02:05:29,679 --> 02:05:32,880 long those appeals take. Um, 2590 02:05:32,880 --> 02:05:35,679 >> so it could be longer than 60 days, but 2591 02:05:35,679 --> 02:05:40,239 it it could be resolved by then as well. 2592 02:05:40,239 --> 02:05:42,719 >> Okay. 2593 02:05:42,719 --> 02:05:44,800 >> We could get it on the calendar for 2594 02:05:44,800 --> 02:05:46,880 September. Assuming, Mr. Walker, that 2595 02:05:46,880 --> 02:05:49,280 September 23rd is a date that works for 2596 02:05:49,280 --> 02:05:52,159 you. And in the event the grammar appeal 2597 02:05:52,159 --> 02:05:54,000 is still pending, we could potentially 2598 02:05:54,000 --> 02:05:56,080 move it just to save the space on the 2599 02:05:56,080 --> 02:05:58,320 commission's agenda. 2600 02:05:58,320 --> 02:06:00,159 >> Yeah, that that sounds good. if we just 2601 02:06:00,159 --> 02:06:02,159 save the date for the 23rd of September 2602 02:06:02,159 --> 02:06:05,040 and then if my part hasn't been resolved 2603 02:06:05,040 --> 02:06:07,199 on the grandma portion, I'll just reach 2604 02:06:07,199 --> 02:06:10,400 out to Mr. Huff and if we need to, you 2605 02:06:10,400 --> 02:06:13,119 know, extend it or have a meeting about 2606 02:06:13,119 --> 02:06:16,080 extending it again, we'll go from there. 2607 02:06:16,080 --> 02:06:19,440 >> Okay. Is that good, commissioners? 2608 02:06:19,440 --> 02:06:20,239 >> Yeah. 2609 02:06:20,239 --> 02:06:20,639 >> Okay. 2610 02:06:20,639 --> 02:06:21,520 >> Yes. 2611 02:06:21,520 --> 02:06:24,400 >> Wonderful. Um, so that concludes the 2612 02:06:24,400 --> 02:06:26,239 hearing for today. It's been continued, 2613 02:06:26,239 --> 02:06:27,840 so I'll turn it back over to you, Chair 2614 02:06:27,840 --> 02:06:29,199 Southwick. 2615 02:06:29,199 --> 02:06:30,000 Okay. 2616 02:06:30,000 --> 02:06:32,880 >> Thank you, director. Um, 2617 02:06:32,880 --> 02:06:35,920 just now, now I'd entertain a motion to 2618 02:06:35,920 --> 02:06:39,119 uh to go into executive session to 2619 02:06:39,119 --> 02:06:42,480 review the uh the stipulations 2620 02:06:42,480 --> 02:06:46,000 that we've heard earlier. 2621 02:06:46,000 --> 02:06:48,000 >> Sorry not to jump in again. Am I good to 2622 02:06:48,000 --> 02:06:50,400 leave? Am I needed? 2623 02:06:50,400 --> 02:06:51,840 >> You're you're good to leave. 2624 02:06:51,840 --> 02:06:53,920 >> Okay, perfect. You guys have a good day. 2625 02:06:53,920 --> 02:06:56,320 >> You too. Thank you. Okay, we've got a 2626 02:06:56,320 --> 02:06:58,480 motion from Commissioner Mlen. Do we 2627 02:06:58,480 --> 02:07:01,280 have a second? 2628 02:07:01,280 --> 02:07:02,480 >> Second. 2629 02:07:02,480 --> 02:07:04,719 >> Okay. 2630 02:07:04,719 --> 02:07:10,159 Second uh as well. Uh all in favor of uh 2631 02:07:10,159 --> 02:07:14,159 motion to go into executive session. 2632 02:07:14,159 --> 02:07:16,400 >> I I 2633 02:07:16,400 --> 02:07:19,360 >> And that passes. Uh 2634 02:07:19,360 --> 02:07:22,400 I'm not sure who our uh 2635 02:07:22,400 --> 02:07:26,239 who our administrative person. You're going to read us into executive 2636 02:07:26,239 --> 02:07:28,880 session. Director Vette. Yes, chair. Let 2637 02:07:28,880 --> 02:07:30,800 the record show that the following 2638 02:07:30,800 --> 02:07:32,719 commission members have voted to close 2639 02:07:32,719 --> 02:07:34,800 this meeting for the sole purpose of 2640 02:07:34,800 --> 02:07:36,719 discussing the character, professional 2641 02:07:36,719 --> 02:07:38,560 competence, or physical and mental 2642 02:07:38,560 --> 02:07:40,960 health of an individual. Chair Rick 2643 02:07:40,960 --> 02:07:43,840 Southwick, Vice Chair Jim Bringhurst, 2644 02:07:43,840 --> 02:07:45,920 Commissioner Marie Mcclullen, and 2645 02:07:45,920 --> 02:07:48,639 Commissioner Randy Smith. So, I will 2646 02:07:48,639 --> 02:07:51,920 open those breakout rooms now. 2647 02:07:51,920 --> 02:43:03,349 >> Thank you. 2648 02:43:03,359 --> 02:43:06,880 Okay, we are uh 2649 02:43:06,880 --> 02:43:09,040 we've concluded our executive session, 2650 02:43:09,040 --> 02:43:13,840 reviewed uh those matters uh that we 2651 02:43:13,840 --> 02:43:17,439 went into executive session to address. 2652 02:43:17,439 --> 02:43:20,960 So, uh we've got a number of items to uh 2653 02:43:20,960 --> 02:43:24,399 take action on now. Uh the first of 2654 02:43:24,399 --> 02:43:27,520 those items 2655 02:43:27,520 --> 02:43:31,840 uh where are we is the um 2656 02:43:31,840 --> 02:43:37,760 >> Brigham Howard uh equation equivalency 2657 02:43:37,760 --> 02:43:40,800 for uh lensure. Uh do we have a motion 2658 02:43:40,800 --> 02:43:42,319 on that matter? 2659 02:43:42,319 --> 02:43:45,279 >> Yes, Mr. Chair. Regarding uh Mr. Brigham 2660 02:43:45,279 --> 02:43:48,479 Howard. Uh I move that we accept his 2661 02:43:48,479 --> 02:43:51,439 alternate alternative education and work 2662 02:43:51,439 --> 02:43:54,800 history in lie of uh GED or high school 2663 02:43:54,800 --> 02:43:55,840 diploma. 2664 02:43:55,840 --> 02:43:57,200 >> Second. 2665 02:43:57,200 --> 02:44:00,399 >> We have a motion ex and a second 2666 02:44:00,399 --> 02:44:02,720 uh to accept the equivalent education 2667 02:44:02,720 --> 02:44:06,720 for Brigham Howard and approved lensure. 2668 02:44:06,720 --> 02:44:10,960 Uh any discussion on that? Uh seeing 2669 02:44:10,960 --> 02:44:14,479 none uh all in favor of that motion? 2670 02:44:14,479 --> 02:44:16,240 I 2671 02:44:16,240 --> 02:44:18,640 >> I let's see. Do we do we have 2672 02:44:18,640 --> 02:44:21,760 Commissioner Mlullen back with us? 2673 02:44:21,760 --> 02:44:24,560 >> She should be joining just now. 2674 02:44:24,560 --> 02:44:26,800 >> Okay, 2675 02:44:26,800 --> 02:44:30,240 Marie, we're just voting on the uh the 2676 02:44:30,240 --> 02:44:32,160 education equivalents for Brigham 2677 02:44:32,160 --> 02:44:44,550 Howard. 2678 02:44:44,560 --> 02:44:46,640 Are you waiting for a vote from me? 2679 02:44:46,640 --> 02:44:47,040 >> Yeah. 2680 02:44:47,040 --> 02:44:48,160 >> Yes. 2681 02:44:48,160 --> 02:44:49,279 >> I 2682 02:44:49,279 --> 02:44:52,399 >> Okay, that uh that passes unanimously 2683 02:44:52,399 --> 02:44:54,399 and does not require concurrence from 2684 02:44:54,399 --> 02:44:57,359 the division. So, uh Mr. Howard, if 2685 02:44:57,359 --> 02:44:59,040 you're still on, uh that's been 2686 02:44:59,040 --> 02:45:01,520 approved. Congratulations. 2687 02:45:01,520 --> 02:45:04,960 Now, uh moving on to our stipulations. 2688 02:45:04,960 --> 02:45:08,160 Uh, first item is the matter of Blake 2689 02:45:08,160 --> 02:45:11,040 Floyd Cousins. 2690 02:45:11,040 --> 02:45:12,880 >> Yes, chair. I'd like to make a motion to 2691 02:45:12,880 --> 02:45:14,960 approve the stipulation in order for 2692 02:45:14,960 --> 02:45:18,790 Blake Floyd Cousins. 2693 02:45:18,800 --> 02:45:21,200 » Thank you. 2694 02:45:21,200 --> 02:45:22,160 >> Second. 2695 02:45:22,160 --> 02:45:25,439 >> Okay, we have a motion and a second to 2696 02:45:25,439 --> 02:45:30,319 approve the cause stipulation. Um, 2697 02:45:30,319 --> 02:45:32,960 all in favor of Do we need a roll call 2698 02:45:32,960 --> 02:45:36,000 on this, Elliot, or 2699 02:45:36,000 --> 02:45:36,399 >> just 2700 02:45:36,399 --> 02:45:37,920 >> I always I always think it's a little 2701 02:45:37,920 --> 02:45:39,600 cleaner to do a roll call. 2702 02:45:39,600 --> 02:45:42,479 >> Okay. All right. Uh, Commissioner 2703 02:45:42,479 --> 02:45:43,920 Bringinghurst. 2704 02:45:43,920 --> 02:45:47,110 >> Hi, 2705 02:45:47,120 --> 02:45:49,359 » Commissioner Mlelen. 2706 02:45:49,359 --> 02:45:51,200 >> I, 2707 02:45:51,200 --> 02:45:53,200 >> Commissioner Smith, 2708 02:45:53,200 --> 02:45:54,640 >> I. 2709 02:45:54,640 --> 02:45:57,359 >> And the chair votes I as well. So that 2710 02:45:57,359 --> 02:46:00,319 passes unanimously. Do we have 2711 02:46:00,319 --> 02:46:02,720 concurrence from the division? 2712 02:46:02,720 --> 02:46:04,319 >> Yes, Chair Southwick. The division 2713 02:46:04,319 --> 02:46:05,439 concurs. 2714 02:46:05,439 --> 02:46:08,640 >> Okay. Thank you. Uh next in the matter 2715 02:46:08,640 --> 02:46:12,550 of Stephanie Dixon. 2716 02:46:12,560 --> 02:46:14,720 » Yeah, Mr. Chair, I'd like to make a 2717 02:46:14,720 --> 02:46:16,880 motion in the matter of Stephanie Dixon 2718 02:46:16,880 --> 02:46:20,479 to approve the stipulation. 2719 02:46:20,479 --> 02:46:23,040 >> Okay. Thank you. 2720 02:46:23,040 --> 02:46:24,880 >> Second. And we've got a motion and a 2721 02:46:24,880 --> 02:46:27,439 second on 2722 02:46:27,439 --> 02:46:30,800 uh Stephanie Dixon stipulation. 2723 02:46:30,800 --> 02:46:32,640 Commissioner Smith 2724 02:46:32,640 --> 02:46:34,240 >> I. 2725 02:46:34,240 --> 02:46:36,160 >> Mr. Mlen 2726 02:46:36,160 --> 02:46:38,399 >> I. 2727 02:46:38,399 --> 02:46:39,760 >> Commissioner Bringhurst 2728 02:46:39,760 --> 02:46:40,960 >> I. 2729 02:46:40,960 --> 02:46:43,760 >> And the chair votes I as well. So that 2730 02:46:43,760 --> 02:46:47,439 passes. Do we have concurrence from the 2731 02:46:47,439 --> 02:46:48,960 division? 2732 02:46:48,960 --> 02:46:50,960 >> Yes, the division concurs. 2733 02:46:50,960 --> 02:46:52,560 >> Okay. 2734 02:46:52,560 --> 02:46:55,359 Thank you, director. 2735 02:46:55,359 --> 02:46:59,439 Next, uh the matter of Jared v. Smart. 2736 02:46:59,439 --> 02:47:03,359 Is there a motion on that stipulation? 2737 02:47:03,359 --> 02:47:06,479 >> Yes, Mr. Chair. Uh regarding the matter 2738 02:47:06,479 --> 02:47:09,120 of Jared v. Smart, 2739 02:47:09,120 --> 02:47:11,760 uh I would move that we approve that 2740 02:47:11,760 --> 02:47:13,279 stipulation. 2741 02:47:13,279 --> 02:47:14,720 >> Second. 2742 02:47:14,720 --> 02:47:17,120 >> Okay, we have a motion and a second on 2743 02:47:17,120 --> 02:47:21,359 Jared Smart to accept that stipulation. 2744 02:47:21,359 --> 02:47:23,600 Uh, Commissioner Mlelen, 2745 02:47:23,600 --> 02:47:25,439 >> I, 2746 02:47:25,439 --> 02:47:27,279 >> Commissioner Smith, 2747 02:47:27,279 --> 02:47:28,160 >> I, 2748 02:47:28,160 --> 02:47:29,680 >> Commissioner Bringinghurst, 2749 02:47:29,680 --> 02:47:30,800 >> I. 2750 02:47:30,800 --> 02:47:34,240 >> Chair votes I as well. That passes. Uh, 2751 02:47:34,240 --> 02:47:35,359 do we have concurrence from the 2752 02:47:35,359 --> 02:47:36,399 division? 2753 02:47:36,399 --> 02:47:38,880 >> Yes, the division concurs. 2754 02:47:38,880 --> 02:47:43,359 >> Thank you, director. Okay. Uh, next, uh, 2755 02:47:43,359 --> 02:47:47,600 the matter of Justin Rogers. 2756 02:47:47,600 --> 02:47:49,680 >> Yes, chair. I would like to make a 2757 02:47:49,680 --> 02:47:52,000 motion to approve the stipulation in 2758 02:47:52,000 --> 02:47:55,040 order for Justin Rogers. 2759 02:47:55,040 --> 02:47:57,040 >> Second. 2760 02:47:57,040 --> 02:47:59,520 >> Okay, we've got a motion and a double 2761 02:47:59,520 --> 02:48:02,399 second on that one. Uh, Commissioner 2762 02:48:02,399 --> 02:48:03,600 Bringinghurst 2763 02:48:03,600 --> 02:48:04,880 >> I. 2764 02:48:04,880 --> 02:48:07,040 >> Commissioner Mlen 2765 02:48:07,040 --> 02:48:08,399 >> I, 2766 02:48:08,399 --> 02:48:10,000 >> Commissioner Smith, 2767 02:48:10,000 --> 02:48:14,319 >> I from the chair as well. Uh, do we have 2768 02:48:14,319 --> 02:48:16,160 concurrence from the division? 2769 02:48:16,160 --> 02:48:18,319 >> Yes, the division concurs. 2770 02:48:18,319 --> 02:48:20,960 Okay. Thank you, director. 2771 02:48:20,960 --> 02:48:24,560 That uh that matter is resolved. Uh 2772 02:48:24,560 --> 02:48:27,439 let's see. The final stipulation in the 2773 02:48:27,439 --> 02:48:30,479 matter of Ashley Webb. 2774 02:48:30,479 --> 02:48:33,120 >> Yeah, Mr. Chair, on the matter of Ashley 2775 02:48:33,120 --> 02:48:34,880 Webb, I'd like to make a motion to 2776 02:48:34,880 --> 02:48:38,399 approve the stipulation presented to us. 2777 02:48:38,399 --> 02:48:39,439 >> Second. 2778 02:48:39,439 --> 02:48:45,750 >> Okay, we have a motion and a second. 2779 02:48:45,760 --> 02:48:46,800 » Mr. 2780 02:48:46,800 --> 02:48:48,319 Go ahead, Commissioner Smith. 2781 02:48:48,319 --> 02:48:50,319 >> I'd like to abstain from the vote on 2782 02:48:50,319 --> 02:48:52,960 this one. Go on record. 2783 02:48:52,960 --> 02:48:54,800 >> Okay. 2784 02:48:54,800 --> 02:48:58,399 >> Duly noted. Okay. Um, Commissioner 2785 02:48:58,399 --> 02:48:59,439 Bringhurst. 2786 02:48:59,439 --> 02:49:00,800 >> I, 2787 02:49:00,800 --> 02:49:02,720 >> Mr. Mlen. 2788 02:49:02,720 --> 02:49:04,240 >> I, 2789 02:49:04,240 --> 02:49:06,720 >> the chair votes I as well. And we note 2790 02:49:06,720 --> 02:49:10,080 the abstension of Commissioner Smith. 2791 02:49:10,080 --> 02:49:12,319 Does the division concur? 2792 02:49:12,319 --> 02:49:14,479 >> Yes, the division concurs. 2793 02:49:14,479 --> 02:49:16,160 >> Okay. 2794 02:49:16,160 --> 02:49:20,000 That concludes our stipulations 2795 02:49:20,000 --> 02:49:23,279 for today. And and just uh noting again 2796 02:49:23,279 --> 02:49:26,399 that we continued the informal licensing 2797 02:49:26,399 --> 02:49:31,200 hearing for uh Jaden Riley Walker for at 2798 02:49:31,200 --> 02:49:35,680 least 60 days. Uh that concludes today's 2799 02:49:35,680 --> 02:49:38,479 uh commission of the Utah or meeting of 2800 02:49:38,479 --> 02:49:40,080 the Utah Real Estate Commission. Unless 2801 02:49:40,080 --> 02:49:42,560 there's any any other matters we need to 2802 02:49:42,560 --> 02:49:42,960 address. 2803 02:49:42,960 --> 02:49:45,359 >> I just like to recognize Mr. Chair Rick 2804 02:49:45,359 --> 02:49:47,920 Southwick for not missing the 2805 02:49:47,920 --> 02:49:49,600 opportunity to ask for concurrence with 2806 02:49:49,600 --> 02:49:52,720 the division. He was 100%. 2807 02:49:52,720 --> 02:49:53,439 So just 2808 02:49:53,439 --> 02:49:55,040 >> we need that on the record because that 2809 02:49:55,040 --> 02:49:57,840 would never happen with me. [laughter] 2810 02:49:57,840 --> 02:49:59,920 >> I'll second that. 2811 02:49:59,920 --> 02:50:04,080 >> Thank you. Thank you. We we we we do our 2812 02:50:04,080 --> 02:50:07,040 best. So sometimes we get it right. 2813 02:50:07,040 --> 02:50:08,640 >> I mean, usually when you're chair for 2814 02:50:08,640 --> 02:50:11,200 the second time, you hopefully get it by 2815 02:50:11,200 --> 02:50:12,000 then. 2816 02:50:12,000 --> 02:50:15,760 >> Yeah. Yeah. as as as uh as they say in 2817 02:50:15,760 --> 02:50:17,760 Wyoming, Commissioner Smith, this is not 2818 02:50:17,760 --> 02:50:19,279 my first rodeo. 2819 02:50:19,279 --> 02:50:21,279 >> Amen, brother. 2820 02:50:21,279 --> 02:50:23,760 >> I'll make a motion to adjourn even 2821 02:50:23,760 --> 02:50:26,880 though stay here all day and you guys, 2822 02:50:26,880 --> 02:50:27,359 but 2823 02:50:27,359 --> 02:50:29,840 >> Okay. Well, uh I I hope you're I hope 2824 02:50:29,840 --> 02:50:32,720 everyone's uh being successful at uh 2825 02:50:32,720 --> 02:50:36,080 coping with this unheavenly heat that 2826 02:50:36,080 --> 02:50:38,960 we're experiencing. So, uh, stay safe 2827 02:50:38,960 --> 02:50:41,840 out there and just like to again, uh, 2828 02:50:41,840 --> 02:50:44,399 commend the efforts of the staff of the 2829 02:50:44,399 --> 02:50:48,960 division in, uh, making massive headway 2830 02:50:48,960 --> 02:50:52,160 with our, uh, complaints and and 2831 02:50:52,160 --> 02:50:55,200 enforcement and and we appreciate the 2832 02:50:55,200 --> 02:50:57,439 efforts of of everyone on the team. So, 2833 02:50:57,439 --> 02:51:00,000 thank you so much for that. And, uh, 2834 02:51:00,000 --> 02:51:01,359 >> I'll second that. 2835 02:51:01,359 --> 02:51:04,720 >> Have a good have a good holiday. uh you 2836 02:51:04,720 --> 02:51:07,359 know this this double holiday month and 2837 02:51:07,359 --> 02:51:09,920 uh look forward to seeing everyone soon. 2838 02:51:09,920 --> 02:51:10,560 Thank you. 2839 02:51:10,560 --> 02:51:12,080 >> Okay. Thanks. 2840 02:51:12,080 --> 02:51:13,760 >> Oh, I guess we need a vote on that uh 2841 02:51:13,760 --> 02:51:16,560 adjournment, don't we? All in favor? 2842 02:51:16,560 --> 02:51:19,120 >> I 2843 02:51:19,120 --> 02:51:22,960 >> Randy already voted and left us. So, 2844 02:51:22,960 --> 02:51:24,399 we'll see y'all. 2845 02:51:24,399 --> 02:51:25,760 >> See you. Thank you. Bye. 2846 02:51:25,760 --> 02:51:28,760 >> Bye.