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started.

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We've got a lot to get through here in the hour that we have. So, I want to

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respect everybody's time.

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Thank you all for being flexible and

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rescheduling for this afternoon.

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And we just had have some rules that we

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have to follow and we're following them. So,

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it looks like based on who who we have

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here, we've got a quorum for the

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committee, which is fantastic.

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And I guess let's just do some quick

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introductions for the folks online.

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Jeff St. Bliker Jacobs

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>> John West, Division of Wildlife

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>> Ben Sherman, Forest Preserve District of

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Lake County

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>> Anna Freeze, Commissioner's Office

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>> Christine Ramsey, USGS

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>> Brian Rowland, USGS

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>> Angela Gong, Forest Preserve District of

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Lake County

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>> All right, and then I saw Rob DeBuke

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online,

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Tim Hawks

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and Jake Alexander

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Jim Harris, Illinois EPA

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and Craig Miller

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and Ted Ballew

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All right.

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Great. Well,

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both are there. Okay.

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All right. Fantastic. So, the the

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purpose of today's meeting at our last

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meeting on May 27th, we had a great

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discussion talking about the burn and

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specifically talking about the

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reduction or decline in nitrogen

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concentrations in the South Arm and what

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and talked about the significance of

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that, what have the historical patterns

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been that we observed, and then what are

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some options given the concern with

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declining nitrogen,

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what are the options that we have for um

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mitigating that or at least slowing it

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down. And the the option that we talked

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about um at the end of the last meeting

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was to run an experiment here for

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several months um

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where we would remove the berm or lower

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the berm back down to its original um

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configuration and elevation at 4183

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uh

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for several months until we have to

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raise it again to 4190 um when the lake

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level drops

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that low. Um

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and so there

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a number of homework items that we had

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that action items that came out of that have here in the agenda. Um one is

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there was a good question with regard to

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you know we saw the results with total

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dissolved nitrogen.

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Um

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but Thomas had asked if if there was a

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similar pattern with regard to total

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nitrogen. Um and

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the base I guess the background there is

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just are we measuring cellular nitrogen

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in the phytoplankton or not.

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So is there a change does that affect

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the outlook? Um

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you know the second number three there

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is what is the best estimate of when the

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lake hits 4190. Um

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so are we going to have to raise the

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berm here in a month or are we going to

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have until November

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uh for an experiment that will inform

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that.

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Um one concern that was raised um was

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with regard to the salinity rule that um

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DWQ helped um

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I guess in response to the legislature

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and and Joe's question was you know if

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we we lower the berm and the salinity in

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the south arm goes up um that's an

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artificial change in the salinity and

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does the rule have any latitude in

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there. Um

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so that they're not now if the if the

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salinity does go above 150 that now they

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have to change the operation because of

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an experiment that this committee

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recommended.

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Um, and then just the little logistics

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of

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getting permits and you know, making the

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actual making the modification. Um,

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so that's all kind of preamble to kind

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of updates on some of these things, um,

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homework items. And really the

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discussion, um,

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that we want to be able to make sure

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we've got time to talk about is is to

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answer the question, should the burn be

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modified now as an experiment? Um,

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and I took the language, you know, that

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we had talked about at the last meeting

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and and drafted a motion. You know,

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there was several different attempts to

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start a motion and so I kind of stitched

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them all together into this text that's

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in the agenda here. Um,

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and we can review that when we get

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there. So.

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>> Jeff, just one quick, uh, thought. Just

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because this is so important to me, do

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we really want to consider it an

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experiment? Because I really think this

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is just testing our ability to bring

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back salt, but I think we know what the

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goal is. So if we know what the likely

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outcome would be,

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I just think maybe framing it as an

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experiment makes it sound like we're,

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you know,

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a test tube in the Great Salt Lake a

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little bit.

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» That's a good question. I I mean, I

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think that's

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you know, I mean, what does the rest of

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the committee think? I mean, I think the

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perception and perception is is a

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definite consideration.

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>> I I just like my personal thought on

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this is that

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to me this isn't much of an experiment

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cuz I think we know what the desired

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outcome is and I think we know what

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we're trying to really what we're

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testing here is like, are we able to

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bring the salt back, you know, and and

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what could the potential impact on

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nutrients be along with that so we can

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determine, you know, how we balance this

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out in the future. And it's more of a

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finding this, but I I just would hate to

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think like the, you know, seeing a

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headline that's like state's

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experimenting on this cuz that's really,

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like we've had we've come a long ways to

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get to this point and I don't want it to

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seem like we're not we don't know what

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we're doing cuz I think we do.

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So I just want to make sure that like

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that's not how this gets phrased later

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as

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we're performing an experiment. So I

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don't know. Just wanted

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I don't know that it matters that much,

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but

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>> Well, I I agree. I think it's it's a

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database it's a data-backed decision,

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you know? Like we have a lot of data to

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suggest this path forward.

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>> Spent five or six years developing that,

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right? So now we're asking we're

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flexing. We're going to see how well we

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can

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do what we think we can do, which we we

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haven't quite done yet on the

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north to south coast, so

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Okay.

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Cool. So maybe if we get to the point of

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making a recommendation, we don't use

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the word experiment.

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>> Manage.

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>> Yes.

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>> So may I

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ask if this is material?

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>> Mhm.

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>> Is there Do you have a feel for how

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much the railroad is going to be so

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generous with their efforts and time and

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to do some of these things to a point

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where they just say

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now now it's up to you.

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>> Yeah, I That's a good question. I I was

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going to touch on that a little bit, but

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I'll just

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throw that out there now that um Eric

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Gibson from water resources has had a

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good working relationship with these

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guys, so we've all kind of stayed in

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contact as the construction and whatnot

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has happened. Um

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and he reached I asked him if he would

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reach out after our last meeting just to

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gauge interest from them on whether they

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could do this if we if we got to go

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through procurement, and they said that

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they they would be willing to lower it

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and raise it. Um so they're willing to

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do that work at this point. I We

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obviously have to work with their

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schedule, but it sounded like they were

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willing to help out again. Um it sounds

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like they're also busy, you know, right

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now, so we'll have to figure out when

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they can get out there, but it sounds

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like they would be willing to both raise

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and lower it, and then we also have

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ongoing funding we can use if we have to

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procure something

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um to do that. So I think we're we're in

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good shape that way. But they but

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honestly, like they'll get it done

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faster too cuz they have people, they

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have equipment, they have rock. And free

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is also a price I really like. So,

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Yeah.

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>> Thanks.

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Great. That's great news.

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>> Yeah.

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>> Well, good. Well, Christine, do you want

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to

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kick us off and just uh

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bring us back up to speed on the

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nitrogen data and

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» Question.

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>> Thanks, Eric.

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Yes.

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Cool.

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Okay. So, I'm just going to jump into

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calculations like I showed last time.

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Um, I did kind of a

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series of analyses looking at total

239
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dissolved nitrogen in the South Arm and

240
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then comparing that to flux at the new

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gradation. So, I'm just repeating that

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essentially but looking at total

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nitrogen instead.

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And I'm putting this giant disclaimer

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um, because these are all preliminary

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results subject to revision and we're

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doing this for time to meet the need for

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time revised science. So, take it with a

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grain of salt but it's

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Um, I'm doing my best to put all of it.

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So, with South Arm, here just a kind of

252
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a plot of raw data that we collect in

253
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the South Arm from 2010 to present. And

254
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these Sorry. These are nutrient

255
00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:08,160
concentrations um, in milligrams per

256
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liter. On the left is total nitrogen and

257
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this is total dissolved nitrogen.

258
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Just to kind of show you the raw data

259
00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:16,040
set. Again, when we have presence of the

260
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deep run there, we see higher

261
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concentrations at depth for both total

262
00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:21,440
nitrogen and dissolved nitrogen. And the

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vast or the a large fraction of nitrogen

264
00:09:24,560 --> 00:09:26,800
in the system is dissolved fraction. So,

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just a little bit of context there. And

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then these two lines represent when the

267
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berm was modified.

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After that point, many of you know we

269
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had to switch labs. So, there is also a

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change in

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00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:39,000
analytical labs that have had to be used

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which is important when you talk about

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total nitrogen in particular. And that

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is because they're much it's much more

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difficult to analyze than the total

276
00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:48,720
dissolved nitrogen has been. So, if we

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just focus on this top left plot, the

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00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:54,320
take home is that if I compare our

279
00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:56,080
nutrient nutrient record from

280
00:09:56,080 --> 00:09:57,960
International Water Quality Lab up to

281
00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:00,040
about 2023-2024

282
00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:02,720
versus just the biological lab results

283
00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:04,680
after that time prepared samples where

284
00:10:04,680 --> 00:10:06,280
we have prepared samples.

285
00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:08,200
Chusty Biological Lab is measuring about

286
00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:10,440
24% higher than National Water Quality

287
00:10:10,440 --> 00:10:12,360
Lab. So, keep that in mind for the

288
00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:15,600
subsequent analyses. That's why we've

289
00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:17,440
really honed in on total dissolved

290
00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:19,640
nitrogen for the last analysis which

291
00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:22,360
compares much better between the two

292
00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:24,080
labs. So,

293
00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:25,800
that this is um

294
00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:27,080
yeah, just keep that in mind when we

295
00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:29,880
start look at masses and concentrations.

296
00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:31,440
And then kind of I know it's hard to see

297
00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:33,600
on the right plot, but essentially we've

298
00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:36,360
also done tests at the lab to look at

299
00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:37,960
spike recoveries which is essentially a

300
00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:40,600
technique to see how well an analysis is

301
00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:42,839
performing in total dissolved nitrogen

302
00:10:42,839 --> 00:10:44,960
performs or sorry, total nitrogen

303
00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:47,240
performs the worst. So, just keep that

304
00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:50,560
in mind. I wanted to address Thomas's uh

305
00:10:50,560 --> 00:10:52,600
question here, but the data there was a

306
00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:54,240
reason we haven't used total nitrogen

307
00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:55,600
previously.

308
00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:58,560
So, just looking at volume weighted

309
00:10:58,560 --> 00:11:00,600
total nitrogen concentration in

310
00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:02,360
milligrams per liter for the South Arm

311
00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:06,560
in 2010 to present, if I do statistical

312
00:11:06,560 --> 00:11:08,320
analyses kind of on a total time before

313
00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:10,800
and after berm modification, there is no

314
00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:12,480
statistically significant difference

315
00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:14,960
between after berm modification and

316
00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:17,160
before berm modification for total

317
00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:18,920
nitrogen. There was for total dissolved

318
00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:20,839
nitrogen. And keep in mind again that

319
00:11:20,839 --> 00:11:22,680
we're dealing with kind of a biased

320
00:11:22,680 --> 00:11:24,920
after berm the berm was modified because

321
00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:27,960
of that new lab we had to switch to.

322
00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:30,000
If we look at masses, this is total

323
00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:32,720
nitrogen mass. You can visually see how

324
00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:34,440
it looks like there's kind of a drop

325
00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:35,960
after berm was modified so that would

326
00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:38,240
indicate less total nitrogen in the

327
00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:40,000
South Arm after berm modification.

328
00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:41,240
However,

329
00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:42,720
the statistical tests were not

330
00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:44,760
significant indicating that before and

331
00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:46,720
after berm modification total nitrogen

332
00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:49,400
masses are the same. Again, keep in mind

333
00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:51,200
the bias that are present in the data

334
00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:52,480
set.

335
00:11:52,480 --> 00:11:54,760
If we pivot to the nutrient flux at the

336
00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:56,160
New Reach,

337
00:11:56,160 --> 00:11:57,960
I basically repeated the analysis that

338
00:11:57,960 --> 00:11:59,760
Scott had done. So on this plot on the

339
00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:01,280
right, we're looking at total nitrogen

340
00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:03,720
concentrations in milligrams per liter

341
00:12:03,720 --> 00:12:05,080
since the time the New Reach has been

342
00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:08,400
opened, so about 2017 to present. Um

343
00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:10,720
just context, South to North

344
00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:12,440
concentrations of total nitrogen are

345
00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:15,240
around 4 and 1/2 milligrams per liter

346
00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:16,840
and then for North to South, they're

347
00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:18,760
much higher around 9 to 10 milligrams

348
00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:19,560
per liter

349
00:12:19,560 --> 00:12:21,680
for total nitrogen.

350
00:12:21,680 --> 00:12:23,200
Um so what we're kind of getting back

351
00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:24,680
from the North is a much higher

352
00:12:24,680 --> 00:12:27,040
concentration of the nutrient.

353
00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:29,440
Um and if you look at fluxes, this also

354
00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:31,240
is very similar to what we saw for total

355
00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:33,000
dissolved nitrogen.

356
00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:35,760
Um the red dots are North to South, the

357
00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:37,760
green dots are South to North. And so

358
00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:39,400
after berm modification, that kind of

359
00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:41,040
orange dash line, you can see how the

360
00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:43,440
fluxes of North to South

361
00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:45,360
uh input of nutrients just really drop

362
00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:48,000
off. And comparing the two time periods

363
00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:50,920
from about 2017 to 2022, we estimate

364
00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:54,160
that we were getting about 7.59

365
00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:56,800
uh tons per day of

366
00:12:56,800 --> 00:12:58,920
nu- of nitrogen coming in from the North

367
00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:00,920
Arm and after the berm was modified,

368
00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:03,560
that was reduced to about 0.9 uh tons

369
00:13:03,560 --> 00:13:05,640
per day. So a really substantial

370
00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:07,520
decrease in load coming in from the

371
00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:10,200
North Arm estimated to be around 2,400

372
00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:11,600
tons per year if we were actually to

373
00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:13,480
extrapolate that rate to an annual

374
00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:15,670
basis.

375
00:13:15,680 --> 00:13:17,760
And just looking at the net flux, so

376
00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:19,680
that's kind of comparing what's going

377
00:13:19,680 --> 00:13:22,200
out um of the South Arm to what's coming

378
00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:24,480
in from the North Arm at the New Reach.

379
00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:27,040
On the right shows the condition before

380
00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:28,840
the berm was modified. And these

381
00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:30,200
positive values just indicate that

382
00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:31,880
there's kind of always a loss of

383
00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:33,680
nitrogen at the breach, but after the

384
00:13:33,680 --> 00:13:35,880
berm was modified, we see a much greater

385
00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:38,040
loss of nitrogen. That loss of nitrogen

386
00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:40,160
to the to the North Arm. And we're not

387
00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:42,400
just again not getting uh much flux

388
00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:45,200
back. So, that's really all I had um

389
00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:46,760
prepared for that, Jeff. If you have any

390
00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:48,600
other questions, I can answer it, but

391
00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:50,920
essentially the data are less reliable.

392
00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:53,240
Um they're not showing a change between

393
00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:55,680
pre- and post-berm, but again, I have

394
00:13:55,680 --> 00:13:56,960
the highest confidence in the total

395
00:13:56,960 --> 00:13:59,440
nitrogen values that I showed last time.

396
00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:01,680
>> But it's not in conflict with the story

397
00:14:01,680 --> 00:14:03,560
we're seeing from the total dissolved

398
00:14:03,560 --> 00:14:04,960
nutrients.

399
00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:06,400
>> Not necessarily. It's just less

400
00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:10,120
statistically robust, but yeah.

401
00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:15,950
>> Any questions from from anybody?

402
00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:18,320
» Uh I have a just a general question

403
00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:19,640
about,

404
00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:21,320
you know, making sure that if we go over

405
00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:23,080
the berm, that we're tracking the right

406
00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:24,400
information,

407
00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:25,600
you know, in the time period when it's

408
00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:27,560
low, so we can kind of validate some of

409
00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:29,480
these assumptions. Do we feel like we

410
00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:31,960
have the right monitoring right now

411
00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:34,120
um for nutrients, you know, between the

412
00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:36,080
breach, or is there any additional

413
00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:37,839
sampling, testing, monitoring, anything

414
00:14:37,839 --> 00:14:39,680
that we need to be considering to make

415
00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:40,960
sure we take this

416
00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:43,320
valuable time that we're

417
00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:44,800
>> I would consider monitoring more

418
00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:46,880
frequently. So, typically you know, she

419
00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:49,240
has what we do is we monitor during

420
00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:51,200
runoff every month to try and capture

421
00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:52,880
kind of a more hydrologically dynamic

422
00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:54,520
period, and then we have to back off

423
00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:56,560
after runoff is over. But if we do

424
00:14:56,560 --> 00:14:57,920
something like this, I would suggest

425
00:14:57,920 --> 00:14:59,560
that we just get more measurements

426
00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:01,000
during that time, maybe the two or three

427
00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:02,880
months in which it's able to be open,

428
00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:04,839
whether that's monthly or even every few

429
00:15:04,839 --> 00:15:07,680
weeks, to just make sure we're correctly

430
00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:09,880
measuring all the nutrient constituents.

431
00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:11,839
In terms of measuring more nutrient

432
00:15:11,839 --> 00:15:13,160
constituents, if there's any analyte

433
00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:14,400
we're missing, I don't think so. We're

434
00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:16,800
kind of doing the full suite, but given

435
00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:18,280
the uncertainty, especially in total

436
00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:19,720
nitrogen values, if we're interested in

437
00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:22,080
that, I do think more samples would be

438
00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:22,640
useful.

439
00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:24,400
>> Okay. I I think that that would be

440
00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:25,960
useful even if it's not just for

441
00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:27,880
nitrogen or, you know, nutrients. I

442
00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:30,000
think like understanding what's going on

443
00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:30,560
out there

444
00:15:30,560 --> 00:15:31,120
>> Mhm.

445
00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:32,720
>> and then doing more frequent sampling

446
00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:33,880
and monitoring would be

447
00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:34,560
>> Definitely.

448
00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:36,400
>> good to know and deal with this in the

449
00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:36,840
future.

450
00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:37,960
>> I don't know Ryan's thoughts on this,

451
00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:39,600
but even just being able to get more

452
00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:41,480
discharge measurements, if you open up

453
00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:42,680
the breaches and if we're going to have

454
00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:45,200
bi-directional flow again, and my crew

455
00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:46,560
member tells me this all the time, who

456
00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:47,960
is very familiar with new breach

457
00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:49,960
discharge, every time we modify that

458
00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:51,160
cross section, we basically have to

459
00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:52,880
start from scratch in trying to build a

460
00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:55,160
relationship between discharge reading

461
00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:57,080
and a and a late stage. And so, we're

462
00:15:57,080 --> 00:15:58,520
kind of starting from scratch in our

463
00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:00,840
ability to kind of develop a continuous

464
00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:02,960
uh relationship there. So, I would say

465
00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:04,800
just more the more measurements the

466
00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:06,240
better in terms of discharge. And

467
00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:07,800
really, because you have to understand

468
00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:09,240
every time we go out there, it's a it's

469
00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:11,360
one point in time. And, you know, that's

470
00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:12,840
it's pretty good during stable, you

471
00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:14,160
know, um

472
00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:15,960
I can say calm conditions, where, you

473
00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:17,160
know, the physics are what they are and

474
00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:19,000
the flow's going to flow how it is. But,

475
00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:21,080
the more conditions we can capture, the

476
00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:23,320
windier it is, um there's slightly more

477
00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:24,720
north-south flow for some reason, I

478
00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:26,200
think.

479
00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:27,800
>> Totally. Yeah. No,

480
00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:29,960
she's yeah. I think that I'm just

481
00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:31,640
thinking out loud. I

482
00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:33,280
Every couple of weeks we probably want

483
00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:37,070
to do a discharge measurement.

484
00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:39,839
Schedule samples as well, so

485
00:16:39,839 --> 00:16:42,080
We need to hire a bridge troll who lives

486
00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:43,560
under there and continuously monitors

487
00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:45,400
and samples.

488
00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:47,200
We need a future close. We need to

489
00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:49,320
invent a drone uh acoustic Doppler

490
00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:52,631
current profile.

491
00:16:52,641 --> 00:17:00,080
» [laughter]

492
00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:01,520
>> Uh all right. Thanks. Thanks, Christine.

493
00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:03,760
I appreciate that.

494
00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:05,079
>> When you had

495
00:17:05,079 --> 00:17:06,959
the nitrogen values sample you

496
00:17:06,959 --> 00:17:09,199
collected, are those from the actual

497
00:17:09,199 --> 00:17:11,360
deep brine flowing through the breach,

498
00:17:11,360 --> 00:17:15,319
or is that a sample from the north arm?

499
00:17:15,319 --> 00:17:17,280
>> It's it's off the breach. So, what we do

500
00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:18,560
is we have what's called a Nansen

501
00:17:18,560 --> 00:17:20,720
sampler, so you kind of lower it as it's

502
00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:22,400
closed and then you lower it and then

503
00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:25,520
open it and then fill it up.

504
00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:26,959
Um and that we weren't able to do that

505
00:17:26,959 --> 00:17:28,240
for a long time cuz there just actually

506
00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:29,440
wasn't enough

507
00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:31,440
water and it was flowing, but we've been

508
00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:32,600
doing that recently.

509
00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:34,600
>> Okay.

510
00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:38,590
Any other questions?

511
00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:40,950
All right.

512
00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:44,440
Okay. All right. Well, let's um move on

513
00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:47,480
to the next one. And Christine, question

514
00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:49,600
we had was with regard to when do we

515
00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:51,320
think we might hit 4190?

516
00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:51,680
>> Yes.

517
00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:53,200
>> Get your crystal ball out.

518
00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:55,040
>> Of course. Yes. And I immediately was

519
00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:56,000
like, yeah, sorry.

520
00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:57,040
>> The Christine ball.

521
00:17:57,040 --> 00:17:58,142
>> Oh, right.

522
00:17:58,142 --> 00:18:00,750
>> [laughter]

523
00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:02,280
» If your rooting index is low, you cross

524
00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:06,470
fire.

525
00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:08,080
» I still got it. I would love that.

526
00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:11,120
Um all right. So, yeah, then I kind of

527
00:18:11,120 --> 00:18:12,560
initially said, "No, we can't do that."

528
00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:14,520
And then Brian and Mike and everyone was

529
00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:15,800
like, "Yeah, you can do that." Okay,

530
00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:18,447
sorry. I don't know. Um so, but anyway,

531
00:18:18,447 --> 00:18:18,760
>> [laughter]

532
00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:21,400
>> what I did was I because the like the

533
00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:22,960
rate of decline changes throughout the

534
00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:25,040
season, right? So, during June 15th to

535
00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:26,640
September 15th, the slope of that

536
00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:28,600
decline is the is kind of steepest and

537
00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:30,080
that's where we're headed into. So, I

538
00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:32,040
what I did I know that's overwhelming.

539
00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:33,160
We don't have to look at this slide too

540
00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:35,480
much, but it's just for me. But from

541
00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:37,600
June 15th to September 15th, I basically

542
00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:39,640
said for every year during that time

543
00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:41,320
period, I'm going to calculate how much

544
00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:42,760
we're dropping every day in like

545
00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:44,480
elevation. And kind of so, that those

546
00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:46,240
black dots are the distribution of that

547
00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:48,600
from 1960. So, it's just been going up

548
00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:50,960
steadily over time. And then that um

549
00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:52,320
blue line is kind of an average

550
00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:54,560
condition of all those trend lines.

551
00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:56,360
Um and then looking at this

552
00:18:56,360 --> 00:18:58,880
distribution, I considered three three

553
00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:01,560
scenarios. So, one is like the average

554
00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:03,440
rate of decline, that kind of number

555
00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:06,040
one. Uh the second one is a higher end

556
00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:08,000
cuz I think we all can all kind of guess

557
00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:09,920
that this might be a kind of a we might

558
00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:11,000
lose a lot of water this year in the

559
00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:12,560
South Park. So,

560
00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:14,040
kind of a higher end and then the the

561
00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:15,840
third one I I I chose was the highest

562
00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:17,800
observed ever to just give you a range.

563
00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:18,800
So,

564
00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:20,040
um doing the math on all of that, which

565
00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:21,240
I showed in the slide, but I won't go

566
00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:23,960
through um for at an average condition

567
00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:24,600
I'm

568
00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:26,640
we're estimating about September 10th is

569
00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:28,640
when we'd hit 4190

570
00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:31,120
or a kind of a highish end rate of

571
00:19:31,120 --> 00:19:33,360
decline August 23rd and then for the

572
00:19:33,360 --> 00:19:36,000
highest we've ever observed August 15th.

573
00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:37,880
And I have to say, looking at the data,

574
00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:40,240
that highest observed

575
00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:43,630
um

576
00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:46,680
I think that was 2024 or even 2023.

577
00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:48,560
Anyway, I got the impression that it

578
00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:50,120
kind of happened on years that we had a

579
00:19:50,120 --> 00:19:52,040
lot of water coming in in the spring cuz

580
00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:53,880
we had a lot of water to come.

581
00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:54,840
So, that might have been due to the

582
00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:57,200
breach. So, take that highest observed

583
00:19:57,200 --> 00:19:59,360
the grain of salt. Um it might kind of

584
00:19:59,360 --> 00:20:00,840
be in a condition where it actually

585
00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:03,160
froze a lot and then

586
00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:05,560
>> Yeah. Just out of curiosity, could you

587
00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:08,040
look [clears throat] at the rise or the

588
00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:10,320
decline this year to see if there's any

589
00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:12,360
trend based on whether we're average or

590
00:20:12,360 --> 00:20:14,520
below or above based on the data?

591
00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:16,400
>> It kind of followed the shapes that it

592
00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:24,840
has over the last like 10 years or so, it's kind of hard to kind of isolate it where it might be.

593
00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:27,520
>> Is it a confounding variable that we

594
00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:30,000
don't have any of our prior data below?

595
00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:30,800
Um

596
00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:33,080
or we haven't in the past a lot of this

597
00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:34,760
data, right? Or a lot of that data

598
00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:37,840
that's plotted up there. So, that introduces some more

599
00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:39,960
uncertainty into the excess volume.

600
00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:41,160
Well, that's okay though. I think that

601
00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:42,920
the bottom line is it's probably going

602
00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:46,680
to fall below 4190 before the we hit

603
00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:49,160
bottom this year, right? I mean, that's

604
00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:51,320
in any scenario that's likely the case.

605
00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:52,680
>> that is the

606
00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:54,000
>> Okay.

607
00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:56,160
Um I would just a point on that is I'd

608
00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:57,280
like to make sure that in the

609
00:20:57,280 --> 00:20:58,680
recommendation, you know, we we normally

610
00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:00,880
talk about like a plan for, you know,

611
00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:03,040
when we would raise it, but I think here

612
00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:04,240
it's going to be based off of an

613
00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:06,240
observation that we see in the breach,

614
00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:08,440
like how well it's salt. Maybe it

615
00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:10,080
imports salt so well that we need to

616
00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:11,480
think about doing it sooner, but I think

617
00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:14,640
just like you know, constant um

618
00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:17,120
observation and maybe ramping up on our

619
00:21:17,120 --> 00:21:18,680
um testing and sampling to understand

620
00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:19,920
what's going on there.

621
00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:21,600
And then reconvening, but

622
00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:22,520
I think that's something we should

623
00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:24,040
consider

624
00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:25,240
if we're going to make any

625
00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:28,670
recommendations today.

626
00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:31,520
» I I guess the question is is

627
00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:32,160
you know,

628
00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:34,560
is is 4190 the trigger where we

629
00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:35,080
literally

630
00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:37,200
>> have to go out and

631
00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:39,080
release it right away, or how urgent is

632
00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:39,200
it?

633
00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:41,600
>> we need to figure that out, too. I mean,

634
00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:42,920
I know what the law says, but I think we

635
00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:45,080
have some things to work out on our end.

636
00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:46,800
Got to make sure that we're interpreting

637
00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:47,840
it the right way. So, I think that's

638
00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:49,520
what I think this is just, you know,

639
00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:51,680
what the goal is now, which I think is,

640
00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:53,760
you know, we wanted to import salt right

641
00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:54,640
now.

642
00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:56,200
Um and we stick with that, and then

643
00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:58,720
we'll we'll probably have some

644
00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:00,760
discussion items that need to happen

645
00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:02,920
sooner than later.

646
00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:05,270
>> Okay.

647
00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:08,400
Great. Then our um so,

648
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:11,040
moving on, um the next question was for

649
00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:12,400
Jim

650
00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:13,720
Harris, um

651
00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:15,720
just with regard to the the salinity

652
00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:17,080
rule,

653
00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:19,800
and uh the concern that

654
00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:20,400
um

655
00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:22,400
if we're importing salt,

656
00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:24,240
or if if we're artificially importing

657
00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:26,680
salt, and that raises the salinity of

658
00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:29,400
the South Arm uncomfortably high, then

659
00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:31,800
does that will that affect operate

660
00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:35,390
mineral operations?

661
00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:38,040
» Yeah, um well, as you're all aware, as

662
00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:39,320
it's written,

663
00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:41,710
um

664
00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:43,960
in a 90-day window,

665
00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:45,400
which would which would would define the

666
00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:47,760
most recent current salinity,

667
00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:50,320
if it goes above the 150,

668
00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:52,400
um

669
00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:54,520
the way it's written, there'd be um

670
00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:57,440
prohibition on any discharge of salts to

671
00:22:57,440 --> 00:22:59,200
the South Arm.

672
00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:01,040
Um there is one

673
00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:04,080
off-ramp to that is if

674
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:07,040
it is considered to be a de minimis

675
00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:10,320
impact and we wrote those into the rule

676
00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:13,600
to allow for operational uh maintenance

677
00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:18,440
and and things like that um so that uh

678
00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:20,920
um compasses facilities can actually

679
00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:23,720
continue to run and not not necessarily

680
00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:26,960
flush the ponds but allow for their

681
00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:28,960
processing to continue.

682
00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:31,240
Um so you know what we haven't had a

683
00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:32,760
chance to um

684
00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:35,480
meet with our AG on this but um as it's

685
00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:37,880
written it's not something that could be

686
00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:39,160
necessarily

687
00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:41,280
deferred. Um

688
00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:42,880
I I I think we ought to we still haven't

689
00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:44,440
had a chance to consult with Forestry

690
00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:47,080
Fire and State Lands on this either so

691
00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:48,320
I think we

692
00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:49,960
I'd like to better understand what their

693
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:52,400
limitations are um and what kind of

694
00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:54,480
flexibilities we might have

695
00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:57,520
um in that documentation.

696
00:23:57,520 --> 00:23:59,400
And then ultimately, you know, one of

697
00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:01,720
the concerns I have is seeing exactly

698
00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:03,560
how much salt are we bringing in, how

699
00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:05,800
high are we going to let the lake go in

700
00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:09,000
terms of the salinity and will that

701
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:11,600
potentially rebound before say

702
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:12,880
um

703
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:14,480
that uh

704
00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:18,840
you know um it's might discharge into the lake

705
00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:21,880
cuz I I just you know there's some

706
00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:23,320
side effects of this obviously that I

707
00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:25,840
wouldn't want a management to

708
00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:28,680
necessarily impair um somebody's ability

709
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:31,600
to operate.

710
00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:33,440
>> Hey Jim, but I just a quick thought and

711
00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:34,800
I know you and I haven't talked more

712
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:36,920
than what we did in the last

713
00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:39,000
you know sort of last second meeting or

714
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:41,200
during but you know it seems to me like

715
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:43,920
the de minimis impact um it was really

716
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:45,680
targeted on like releases that wouldn't

717
00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:48,040
negatively affect the salt balance in

718
00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:49,600
the lake and to me when we're actively

719
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:51,840
trying to import salt and that's the

720
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:54,040
whole goal of the management, I I wonder

721
00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:55,720
if there's a way to squeeze that into

722
00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:57,440
the de minimis impact side of things and

723
00:24:57,440 --> 00:24:58,800
just say, you know, the impact isn't

724
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:01,080
there because we're actually trying to

725
00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:02,720
bring back salts. And then, if that

726
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:04,120
can't happen,

727
00:25:04,120 --> 00:25:05,480
I would say that it would be really

728
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:07,880
interesting to explore the rules, and

729
00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:10,160
just see if maybe we ought to consider

730
00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:11,840
adding to that de minimis impact, just

731
00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:14,040
like when the state is actively managing

732
00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:16,000
the burn for import of salt from north

733
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:18,160
to south, that this, you know, that

734
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:19,600
would also be a time where they would

735
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:21,000
not be,

736
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:22,800
you know, regulated for discharge of

737
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:24,440
salt. Because I think it's just, you

738
00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:27,400
know, I obviously, the intent was to

739
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:29,280
limit discharges of salt at times we're

740
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:31,600
trying to manage to keep it fresher on

741
00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:33,840
the the south arm. In this case, it's

742
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:36,360
the same thing. So, I I know that

743
00:25:36,360 --> 00:25:38,160
doesn't resolve anything for today.

744
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:39,000
>> Right.

745
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:40,040
>> We're going to make a recommendation

746
00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:41,200
that might put some of the mineral

747
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:42,800
companies in a hard spot, but I do think

748
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:43,640
like

749
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:45,400
I think it's really obvious what the

750
00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:47,280
goal is, and so I think that, you know,

751
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:49,400
I'd recommend we find a solution, so

752
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:51,120
we're not hamstringing ourselves over

753
00:25:51,120 --> 00:25:54,040
such a I don't know, weird thing that is

754
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:55,200
counterintuitive to what we're actually

755
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:57,120
trying to do.

756
00:25:57,120 --> 00:26:00,120
>> Correct. Great. And I And I think

757
00:26:00,120 --> 00:26:01,200
you know, one thing we might need to

758
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:04,880
have in line is map out exactly

759
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:06,880
that, um,

760
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:12,640
that proposed salinity um,

761
00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:19,280
adjustment, so that we can we can have a data-based decision for our director

762
00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:21,040
to make in terms of what is de minimis,

763
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:22,498
what is not.

764
00:26:22,498 --> 00:26:22,600
>> [clears throat]

765
00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:25,840
>> Um, so anyways, go ahead.

766
00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:28,120
>> Yeah, uh, you you you're right, Jim. Um,

767
00:26:28,120 --> 00:26:29,760
you know, the de minimis was, um, you

768
00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:32,160
know, it was intended to, uh, you know,

769
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:33,800
allow for continued plant water

770
00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:36,080
discharge, which in you know, is orders

771
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:37,960
of magnitude smaller than, you know,

772
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:42,480
mineral return. Um, by by volume, and, you know, mass is that's that's

773
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:44,800
being sent back to the lake. It It seem

774
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:46,400
It seems like, you know, what Ben had

775
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:49,240
just suggested, you know, could be

776
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:51,880
integrated into, you know, the UPDES

777
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:55,200
permit. Um

778
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:56,760
you know,

779
00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:58,600
I think that would be pretty pretty

780
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:01,040
straightforward. Um

781
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:03,000
You know, to allow for allow for you

782
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:05,200
know, all discharges when when there's

783
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:07,693
active measures being taken to um

784
00:27:07,693 --> 00:27:08,040
>> [clears throat]

785
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:13,190
>> you know, import salt to the South Arm.

786
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:14,720
» Yeah, and I and I'll I'll I just want to

787
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:16,440
make sure Jim I don't put you guys in a

788
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:17,840
hard spot cuz I know that's like it's

789
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:19,600
not our rule to make. Just debated in

790
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:21,080
the writing but I just think it's

791
00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:22,600
important for us to like go back and try

792
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:23,520
to

793
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:25,080
um you know, problem solve this and I I

794
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:28,080
really think like at this point it um

795
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:30,080
I I think it'd be worth hitting the

796
00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:31,800
books again and I Joe, I know that's not

797
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:32,880
going to make it easy for you to like

798
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:34,960
make a vote today but I think it um you

799
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:36,280
know, if we get to that point but I do

800
00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:38,320
think like again, this is going to I

801
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:40,160
don't want to get held up just because

802
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:42,280
we can't figure out this weird you know,

803
00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:45,040
this weird nuance. So

804
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:46,560
>> Bill

805
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:48,280
>> Yeah, in the in the many meetings we had

806
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:50,800
discussing the rule

807
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:53,440
this came up, right? We we talked about

808
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:57,560
needing to look at at loads

809
00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:01,160
and expected impacts of the loads.

810
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:03,680
And and Jim, are you effectively I I

811
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:06,360
agree with it that the rule has also had

812
00:28:06,360 --> 00:28:09,350
to be simple.

813
00:28:09,360 --> 00:28:11,040
But we we had recognized this could

814
00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:13,360
happen and we thought at the time that

815
00:28:13,360 --> 00:28:15,640
there'd be enough wiggle room

816
00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:17,760
to address a case like this. So whether

817
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:20,320
it's UPDES permit or or what I but we we

818
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:23,360
anticipated this kind of a uh

819
00:28:23,360 --> 00:28:24,680
you know, a shortcoming of the

820
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:27,280
simplicity of the rule. So we should

821
00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:29,280
Jim, I can't remember what exactly that

822
00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:31,240
out is but it seems like we designed it

823
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:35,310
to allow an out.

824
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:37,120
» Well, well like I mentioned, the one off

825
00:28:37,120 --> 00:28:39,240
ramp was was the de minimis

826
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:41,160
determination. The other off ramp was

827
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:42,600
having um

828
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:44,120
where for those operations that were

829
00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:47,560
actually removing salt from their upper

830
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:51,240
so the South arm operations were allowed

831
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:53,280
them to discharge back in the lake when

832
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:58,240
it was above 150 cuz in essence they're removing salt mass from the lake

833
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:00,760
and they're and they're um

834
00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:04,000
operations but those are the two

835
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:06,440
off-ramps.

836
00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:08,480
And we added also a provision that

837
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:11,200
allowed the director to determine if

838
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:15,160
this group forecasted a future

839
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:16,560
that

840
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:18,720
um where you were certain that it was

841
00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:21,000
going to go above 150 that they could

842
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:23,000
preventatively

843
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:25,560
uh preemptively sort of so to speak

844
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:27,840
stop any additional discharges to the

845
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:28,920
lake so

846
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:30,320
>> Right and this is the other side of

847
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:30,720
that.

848
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:31,520
>> Yes yeah.

849
00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:33,920
>> Yeah. No that's good. That that is what

850
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:35,800
it was. Thank you for reminding me.

851
00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:36,800
>> Yeah.

852
00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:38,160
Right then just put a note in there

853
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:40,480
yeah. The other off-ramp is

854
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:44,280
when it's still is below 150 so that was what kind of one of my

855
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:46,200
fundamental questions was

856
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:47,800
can we do this operation and keep it

857
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:52,200
below 150? Uh I I don't know that I was seeing a good

858
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:55,230
projection

859
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:56,600
would allow

860
00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:59,680
rotation of the nutrients and still

861
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:02,400
prevent it from going above 150

862
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:06,320
say this winter. Um

863
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:10,280
>> The the other the other um aspect that

864
00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:11,440
you know

865
00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:13,720
that's on my radar is our voluntary

866
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:16,480
agreement. And and this is admittedly an

867
00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:20,280
extreme um condition but if on June 15th

868
00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:23,200
uh in future years um the lake is 4190

869
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:25,040
or below um

870
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:26,920
we're effectively shut down.

871
00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:28,200
So

872
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:28,800
uh

873
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:30,080
you know I I I

874
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:32,200
in my view I

875
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:34,160
you know I I see that as not not a not a

876
00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:40,200
possibility in 2028 but but you know if we had another poor snowpack and

877
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:42,960
followed by another we we we you know

878
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:45,520
very well could be in that paradigm. So,

879
00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:49,080
um I I I look at maintaining um

880
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:51,320
elevation in the South Arm is is you

881
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:52,120
know

882
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:56,800
as important and and this action will you know it'll reduce elevation um

883
00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:59,320
in South Arm um

884
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:01,480
it'll it'll accelerate it from from

885
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:04,160
status quo, I guess.

886
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:05,360
We're going to we're going to take more

887
00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:06,720
from the South Arm and and move it to

888
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:07,920
the north and you're you're going to be

889
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:09,400
at a faster rate of decline if I'm

890
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:11,040
thinking about it.

891
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:13,280
>> Well, maybe temporarily. I think it's

892
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:15,280
preparing us for the other side of that

893
00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:17,640
coin though, right, Joe?

894
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:19,800
So, and we can't I think that you know,

895
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:22,560
we've discussed this in depth, but

896
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:24,120
you know, like we can't leave it where

897
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:25,640
it's at. We know we're going to have to

898
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:28,120
probably raise it at some point based on

899
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:28,880
what this

900
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:31,280
process so do we do what we can right

901
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:32,920
now to prepare to raise it so we can

902
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:34,680
maximize the benefits of raising it and

903
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:36,520
I think that's where, you know, if you

904
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:38,080
really want to talk about offsetting

905
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:40,400
potential curtailment or you know, those

906
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:43,120
reductions like that that's where you're

907
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:45,000
going to we're going to see that you

908
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:47,240
know, that benefit. But, another thing I

909
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:49,346
just wanted to point out as well as that

910
00:31:49,346 --> 00:31:49,360
>> [clears throat]

911
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:51,520
>> um you know, the salinity forecasts were

912
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:53,240
like hovering right around 150. It's not

913
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:54,880
like we were like blowing that out of

914
00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:57,560
the water. So, I would anticipate that

915
00:31:57,560 --> 00:31:59,840
this is going to be fairly temporary in

916
00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:03,520
nature. Like immediately once we um you

917
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:05,880
know, raise that berm again and stop the

918
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:07,960
bidirectional flows, it's it's

919
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:10,360
immediately going to become dropping I

920
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:12,240
would assume you know, especially if

921
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:13,680
we're raising it at the you know, the

922
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:15,800
end of the evaporation season as we

923
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:17,400
start to see more inflows from the Bear

924
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:19,840
River and whatnot. So, I would imagine

925
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:20,840
that's going to be very temporary. So,

926
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:22,560
another thing I would say is like if

927
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:24,360
there's an operational efficiency that

928
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:26,680
you guys have Joe where you know, maybe

929
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:27,920
you don't do that for those couple of

930
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:30,440
months and in the meantime we also work

931
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:32,080
with DEQ to see if there's like

932
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:33,680
exceptions in the rules for when we're

933
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:35,000
actively trying to do this and we just

934
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:37,160
It's work in good faith to figure out

935
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:38,480
you know, what a solution looks like.

936
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:40,440
There I think I think we all know what

937
00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:42,120
you know, what the intent is. It's just

938
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:43,880
trying to figure out like how do we

939
00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:47,680
actually arrive at that solution. So.

940
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:49,880
>> Yeah, and and I I offered before Ben

941
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:52,360
last meeting, you know, we're actively

942
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:54,240
negotiating the you know, our up these

943
00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:56,880
renewal. Um, you know, by end of

944
00:32:56,880 --> 00:32:59,440
October. So, I think we can you know,

945
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:01,520
engage you know, on on this and the

946
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:03,680
other other aspects of this.

947
00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:04,200
>> Okay.

948
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:06,560
>> And and to just just to be clear, I'm

949
00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:07,600
not sure if I mentioned it in front of

950
00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:10,400
this group, you know, we've temporarily

951
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:11,200
um

952
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:13,510
uh

953
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:15,360
temporarily terminated operations on on

954
00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:16,760
the west side

955
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:19,560
when the lake is below 4190

956
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:22,120
four. Uh we just can't operate enough

957
00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:28,920
pumps and evaporation rate exceeds pumping rate. And so it's it's a it's a waste of resource and and

958
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:31,440
time and effort. So, um

959
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:33,760
uh Compass is less sensitive to South

960
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:36,160
Arm I'm sorry, North Arm elevation as we

961
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:40,080
were you know, in 2021 22 time frame.

962
00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:41,720
So, I just wanted to throw that data

963
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:45,350
point out there.

964
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:46,920
» Okay.

965
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:49,200
>> Great. Well, I So, I guess to try to

966
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:51,040
summarize, um

967
00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:54,280
we don't have a clear answer um

968
00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:58,400
on this um flexibility of the rule. It sounds

969
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:00,840
like we will probably have to

970
00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:03,160
have some more discussions um

971
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:05,960
to find where the flexibility is. So,

972
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:08,720
that we recognize the fact that we are

973
00:34:08,720 --> 00:34:11,040
if we modify the berm, we're making this

974
00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:12,639
the choice to

975
00:34:12,639 --> 00:34:15,280
um modify the salinity that um we will

976
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:17,520
be importing salt into the South Arm.

977
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:19,960
And so, we recognize we're doing that.

978
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:22,240
Um but sounds like the common you know,

979
00:34:22,240 --> 00:34:24,679
the conversation will need to continue

980
00:34:24,679 --> 00:34:26,520
um you know,

981
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:28,800
to find the flexibility perhaps through

982
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:31,679
the um up these permit that um Compass

983
00:34:31,679 --> 00:34:33,760
is negotiating now.

984
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:39,520
Um perhaps you know via the rule.

985
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:43,159
But we don't we don't have it's not

986
00:34:43,159 --> 00:34:45,600
black and white but there's sounds like

987
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:48,760
the intent is that recognizing that we

988
00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:50,760
are modifying the salinity

989
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:52,840
and we don't want to have to affect

990
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:54,080
their operation.

991
00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:55,080
>> Well, I think we don't want to affect

992
00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:56,360
their operation but we also don't want

993
00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:58,120
to let this lake

994
00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:01,240
salinity time period you know, the the

995
00:35:01,240 --> 00:35:02,160
time period in which they wouldn't be

996
00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:03,520
able to discharge dictate how we're

997
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:04,880
going to manage the bird because I think

998
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:06,240
that's also

999
00:35:06,240 --> 00:35:08,120
that you know, could be have a massive

1000
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:10,920
impact into the future on how we how we

1001
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:12,760
do this. So

1002
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:14,960
both nutrients and salt mass.

1003
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:17,040
>> Okay.

1004
00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:19,400
Great. Well, let's um

1005
00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:21,160
I guess touch on the last question with

1006
00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:23,760
regard to regulatory and construction.

1007
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:25,280
>> Yeah, we've already covered Yeah, I

1008
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:26,920
think Union Pacific can get out there

1009
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:28,680
soon. We will have to talk with them

1010
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:30,240
about specifics once we have a little

1011
00:35:30,240 --> 00:35:31,800
bit of official, you know, plan and

1012
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:34,160
whatnot. And the other thing too is I

1013
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:35,800
don't know that they'll they're going to

1014
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:37,040
be able to I don't know that we should

1015
00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:39,160
even make a an attempt to say we want it

1016
00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:40,960
at this level. I think we want to be a

1017
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:42,120
little bit loose on that because they're

1018
00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:43,200
going to be doing this with equipment

1019
00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:44,120
that they own. They're not going to

1020
00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:47,320
have, you know, getting down to 4183

1021
00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:48,480
might be pretty challenging and then

1022
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:50,600
measuring that. Also

1023
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:52,320
Yeah, it's it's it's something where I

1024
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:53,120
think we're going to have to be a little

1025
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:54,640
bit loose about. You know, let's try to

1026
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:56,040
make it as flat as possible, you know,

1027
00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:57,440
uniform and flat as possible for

1028
00:35:57,440 --> 00:35:59,360
monitoring and being able to measure

1029
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:01,840
those things but also understanding that

1030
00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:03,280
like they're going to have to do this

1031
00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:04,880
all from the bank cuz you know, before

1032
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:05,720
when they've done this they've been able

1033
00:36:05,720 --> 00:36:07,760
to walk out the equipment as they build

1034
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:09,800
it but never have we like lowered it

1035
00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:11,360
like this. So it'll be a little bit

1036
00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:12,520
different than what we've done before.

1037
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:14,560
So hopefully they can get out there, do

1038
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:16,560
what they got to do but I think you

1039
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:17,960
know, any potential recommendation ought

1040
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:19,360
to be based on like getting it as close

1041
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:21,640
to 4183 as possible

1042
00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:24,000
or whatever elevation we decide and then

1043
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:26,960
also the timing will have to be because

1044
00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:28,280
procurement will take a hell of a lot

1045
00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:29,600
longer than

1046
00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:31,080
um working with the railroad. We would

1047
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:32,800
have to be at the whim of their

1048
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:34,360
schedule.

1049
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:35,840
You know, same thing with on raising. I

1050
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:37,600
think we can we can leave that up in the

1051
00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:40,920
air right now about based on regulation

1052
00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:43,200
monitoring and also

1053
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:44,920
the status of the elevation of the lake

1054
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:47,200
so we can just make that determination

1055
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:49,920
further off the day. That's that's my

1056
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:51,120
sense and then as far as other

1057
00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:52,600
regulations, Army Corps we've been down

1058
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:54,040
this path before.

1059
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:56,120
They already evaluated impacts of this

1060
00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:57,560
permit area so we know there's nothing

1061
00:36:57,560 --> 00:36:58,760
we need to do with them. I didn't even

1062
00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:00,680
check because last time we did they said

1063
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:02,840
no because we've done this before. So,

1064
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:03,880
I'm going to assume we're still in the

1065
00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:06,920
same graces of the Army Corps and that's

1066
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:09,040
the only okay. The only other one that I

1067
00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:10,320
can think of that we'd have to check the

1068
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:11,080
box on.

1069
00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:12,840
>> Great.

1070
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:14,680
Super, well thank you. So, then I I

1071
00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:16,960
think that the question is is should the

1072
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:19,080
burn be modified now?

1073
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:20,920
We'll drop the experiment of modifying

1074
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:22,240
the burn.

1075
00:37:22,240 --> 00:37:23,560
And and the intent is that it's a

1076
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:25,800
short-term modification

1077
00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:28,120
uh recognizing that the lake is likely

1078
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:31,680
going to drop below 4190 this fall and

1079
00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:32,600
um

1080
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:34,440
so we'll have to raise the burn back up

1081
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:36,240
this fall.

1082
00:37:36,240 --> 00:37:38,920
>> And I and if we again just like I if we

1083
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:40,600
can stay away from timing on the raising

1084
00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:42,080
of that, I think we need to be flexible

1085
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:43,880
based off of what's observed in the

1086
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:46,320
conditions. So, right now if we can

1087
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:47,760
you know, focus on the recommendation of

1088
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:49,320
the you know, what it is that we're

1089
00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:51,200
trying to do and I think right now it's

1090
00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:53,640
important to solve the preparation for

1091
00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:55,760
you know, future years. So,

1092
00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:57,680
um I think we just make a recommendation

1093
00:37:57,680 --> 00:37:59,680
of what the elevation we want to target

1094
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:02,120
on the lowering then we can continuously

1095
00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:04,240
monitor perhaps put together a you know,

1096
00:38:04,240 --> 00:38:04,800
a

1097
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:06,800
meeting time where we can go over the

1098
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:08,840
results of what we've observed over the

1099
00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:10,720
you know, summer months maybe it's

1100
00:38:10,720 --> 00:38:13,440
sometime in late August or late July or

1101
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:14,760
something after we've done a few rounds

1102
00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:17,480
of bi-weekly monitoring and then decide

1103
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:19,320
what the next step looks like and we'll

1104
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:20,920
be closer on the elevation and then

1105
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:24,390
what's going on there.

1106
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:27,920
» Great. Any Any discussion or questions

1107
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:38,430
from the rest of you?

1108
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:40,360
» So, I

1109
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:42,080
um

1110
00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:44,200
I think the the draft motion that's on

1111
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:46,520
the table I you know is what I had I had

1112
00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:48,320
drafted based on the previous

1113
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:49,840
discussion.

1114
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:51,800
Um

1115
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:54,600
you know, we could delete

1116
00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:58,390
that part because

1117
00:38:58,400 --> 00:38:59,480
it doesn't sound like it's

1118
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:01,760
>> So, Jeff, if we can delete that part,

1119
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:03,280
here's here's what I'd like to see out

1120
00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:04,840
of this is we can delete that part

1121
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:06,120
because we obviously need to have more

1122
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:08,160
discussion with water quality on you

1123
00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:09,800
know, what's possible

1124
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:11,440
and then you know, I would assume like

1125
00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:13,520
right now let's operate under the status

1126
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:15,200
of what the existing rule is in the

1127
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:17,400
existing NPDES permit. I wouldn't

1128
00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:18,960
anticipate the change, but I think we

1129
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:20,920
can agree that we'll like all in good

1130
00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:23,720
faith Jim, Joe, myself, and others who

1131
00:39:23,720 --> 00:39:25,840
are interested work to to make sense of

1132
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:28,080
that rule and then also can we get rid

1133
00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:32,480
of the last sentence um about like when

1134
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:33,600
we're going to do that. I think right

1135
00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:35,680
now because there's some interpretation

1136
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:37,280
there. I'd like to leave that open and

1137
00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:38,760
we'll work through that on our end to

1138
00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:40,320
see what is going to be required and

1139
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:41,280
when.

1140
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:43,280
>> And that work can start.

1141
00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:45,680
>> Yeah, and the

1142
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:48,840
relation to experiment we can

1143
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:50,720
You could have if you if it's necessary

1144
00:39:50,720 --> 00:39:51,880
we could have some information there

1145
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:53,600
about like helping to refine our

1146
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:54,960
knowledge of like that

1147
00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:56,080
but I think that's the only thing that

1148
00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:57,920
we're really trying to better understand

1149
00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:01,400
right is like the nutrients

1150
00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:02,880
that that are coming through. But even

1151
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:04,840
that I think it sounds like it's a good

1152
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:08,310
idea what's going on.

1153
00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:09,720
Other than that I think

1154
00:40:09,720 --> 00:40:11,480
I'm good.

1155
00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:12,920
I guess

1156
00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:14,400
Any

1157
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:17,030
How about

1158
00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:18,760
» Yeah, the the only thing I'd add to it

1159
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:21,160
is that there's a downside risk here

1160
00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:23,040
because there's a limited flux that we

1161
00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:25,320
can even get through the

1162
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:27,240
through this mechanism,

1163
00:40:27,240 --> 00:40:28,640
you know, over the time period we're

1164
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:31,040
looking at. So,

1165
00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:32,480
you don't want people to think oh this

1166
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:34,080
is a dramatic shift. I mean we're going

1167
00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:35,760
to measure what comes through and and

1168
00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:38,840
the impact it has, but it's limited. So,

1169
00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:40,480
there is a low downside risk. I would I

1170
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:43,400
would emphasize that.

1171
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:45,320
>> Agreed.

1172
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:46,760
Also, one other thing I noticed on there

1173
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:48,400
is we have that

1174
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:50,920
configuration and elevation of 4183. I

1175
00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:52,320
think we should soften that a little bit

1176
00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:53,360
just knowing that it's going to be

1177
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:55,680
difficult to like survey that and say

1178
00:40:55,680 --> 00:40:58,120
this is you know, the target of 4183 or

1179
00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:05,750
something.

1180
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:17,390
It'd be picking three, I believe.

1181
00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:20,800
I think that could do it. So, target near the

1182
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:23,920
original as constructed configuration.

1183
00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:27,120
Maybe as constructed isn't

1184
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:28,400
Yeah, I think just configuration is

1185
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:31,150
great.

1186
00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:33,520
That makes sense to me.

1187
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:36,223
All right.

1188
00:41:36,233 --> 00:41:36,480
» [clears throat]

1189
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:37,880
>> So,

1190
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:41,080
I think Phil's point is well taken is,

1191
00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:42,680
you know, the

1192
00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:44,600
if we're operating this

1193
00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:47,000
even up until November, I think those

1194
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:48,840
are the numbers I gave

1195
00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:52,400
on last the last meeting.

1196
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:55,080
And we we should be able to measure and

1197
00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:59,120
then estimate what the flux is through here. We probably won't be able

1198
00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:00,800
to measure a difference in the lake

1199
00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:02,800
itself.

1200
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:07,840
But we can we can measure the flux and the risk of and then I guess the

1201
00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:10,880
estimates that we have as Bill noted is,

1202
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:12,440
you know, the risks

1203
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:13,800
are

1204
00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:15,680
pretty low at at this for that short

1205
00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:16,880
period of time.

1206
00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:18,080
>> Just another thought, do you want to put

1207
00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:19,720
something in there, maybe a

1208
00:42:19,720 --> 00:42:21,640
recommendation that increased monitoring

1209
00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:22,880
occurs during the time of the

1210
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:24,560
modification?

1211
00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:27,320
Just so we are collecting data that may

1212
00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:29,760
be valuable or useful

1213
00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:31,120
as we make these decisions in the

1214
00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:34,870
future.

1215
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:38,440
Unless anybody disagrees with that.

1216
00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:51,830
>> I like that idea.

1217
00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:53,440
» We'll We'll work with Christina and her

1218
00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:56,520
team to see what's possible.

1219
00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:57,760
Okay.

1220
00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:00,240
>> A caveat to be transparent, that we will

1221
00:43:00,240 --> 00:43:02,000
not get the nutrient results back in

1222
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:03,680
time to kind of reconvene after this

1223
00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:05,000
works, so that'll have to be kind of

1224
00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:06,680
>> We'll collect that, so we'll we'll be

1225
00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:07,440
able to do it.

1226
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:08,440
>> Yeah, that's good. The turnaround time

1227
00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:09,720
just isn't there.

1228
00:43:09,720 --> 00:43:11,440
>> Okay.

1229
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:12,720
All right.

1230
00:43:12,720 --> 00:43:17,590
So, I any concerns?

1231
00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:18,360
Anything

1232
00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:20,760
>> from our I mean, I I you know, I think I

1233
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:22,320
think our concerns are, you know,

1234
00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:23,960
obvious. Jeff Jeff's willing to spend

1235
00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:25,920
time on that. Just because of a lot of

1236
00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:27,680
these things aren't buttoned down.

1237
00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:27,840
>> Right.

1238
00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:29,800
>> It's a fact. I just have to say that.

1239
00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:30,480
>> Yeah.

1240
00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:32,280
No, I don't want to give you a chance to

1241
00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:33,480
say that.

1242
00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:34,680
Um

1243
00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:38,000
So, if not, then I guess

1244
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:41,350
I Yeah, it's him.

1245
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:43,120
» Yeah, hi guys. Just

1246
00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:44,320
I don't want to overcomplicate the

1247
00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:45,800
motion, and maybe we don't need it here,

1248
00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:48,160
but um

1249
00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:50,320
obviously we'd like to

1250
00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:52,600
somehow communicate the reason why. I

1251
00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:53,920
mean, as I read the motion right now, it

1252
00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:55,840
really doesn't say

1253
00:43:55,840 --> 00:43:57,680
it says we're going to do it,

1254
00:43:57,680 --> 00:44:00,200
and we're going to monitor this stuff.

1255
00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:02,800
It doesn't really speak to the why.

1256
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:03,760
So,

1257
00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:05,200
um anyway, I don't know if we Do you to

1258
00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:07,200
work that into the motion, or just be

1259
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:08,800
cognizant of the fact that if that this

1260
00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:10,520
is just read to a layperson, that they

1261
00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:11,920
don't really know why we're doing what

1262
00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:16,870
we're doing.

1263
00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:19,640
» Have any thoughts?

1264
00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:24,430
Others?

1265
00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:27,480
Thinking in the past we've

1266
00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:30,080
had a letter, um we've had a motion to

1267
00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:32,880
do this and then we

1268
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:35,400
drafted letter that provided

1269
00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:36,920
basis for it.

1270
00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:38,680
Um

1271
00:44:38,680 --> 00:44:41,160
>> I think anything that can that context

1272
00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:42,840
doesn't need to be in the motion, but if

1273
00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:43,880
it's in the letter or other

1274
00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:46,360
communication, I think that would be

1275
00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:49,040
um valuable to just state the the why of

1276
00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:51,280
it.

1277
00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:52,520
>> Okay.

1278
00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:53,320
So

1279
00:44:53,320 --> 00:45:00,870
adequate, um and Craig?

1280
00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:03,200
uh I think we lost Craig.

1281
00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:04,360
>> Well, we're waiting for Craig to come

1282
00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:06,520
back. But would it be Tim, do you think

1283
00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:08,760
it would capture that if we just put

1284
00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:10,600
Oh, there's Craig. Go ahead, Craig.

1285
00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:13,880
>> I'm sorry. I didn't unmute myself. So,

1286
00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:18,880
uh along with the why, it might be useful to put in if as long

1287
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:20,600
as you're monitoring things, what are

1288
00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:23,720
your targets? What are what are these uh

1289
00:45:23,720 --> 00:45:26,560
salinity and the nitrogen concentrations

1290
00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:29,640
that you would like to see that would uh

1291
00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:32,240
require the the the berm to be

1292
00:45:32,240 --> 00:45:35,040
reconstructed as a block.

1293
00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:36,280
You know, there's something something

1294
00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:37,920
like that uh

1295
00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:40,160
the additional anal- analysis might be

1296
00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:41,920
required for that, but

1297
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:43,360
that would be something that I think

1298
00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:45,720
would be helpful.

1299
00:45:45,720 --> 00:45:47,000
>> If you just

1300
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:49,630
Okay.

1301
00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:50,480
» So,

1302
00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:52,320
one quick thought on this and it was

1303
00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:54,800
kind of stated before, but I think we

1304
00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:57,000
agreed that the results are not going to

1305
00:45:57,000 --> 00:45:59,040
be monumental. We're going to get a

1306
00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:02,440
limited amount of salt return or I mean

1307
00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:03,520
inflow

1308
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:05,360
or flux from the north arm. And so I

1309
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:06,720
think like we're going to understand a

1310
00:46:06,720 --> 00:46:08,200
little bit about the concentrations, but

1311
00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:09,720
it's more about like figuring out what

1312
00:46:09,720 --> 00:46:12,240
the salt mass is that comes back. And so

1313
00:46:12,240 --> 00:46:14,480
to Tim's point, I think, you know, maybe

1314
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:16,920
discussing that, you know, we we're we

1315
00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:19,240
become we become really efficient at

1316
00:46:19,240 --> 00:46:22,040
exporting salt. But that's a limited

1317
00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:23,680
salt return. So we have an opportunity

1318
00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:26,120
right now as we're considering what the,

1319
00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:29,400
you know, what may be future actions to

1320
00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:30,960
raise the berm.

1321
00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:32,960
You know, we we're we basically have an

1322
00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:34,640
opportunity right now to import salt for

1323
00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:36,160
a temporary time period that will

1324
00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:38,520
prepare us for future modifications that

1325
00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:39,560
might,

1326
00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:41,040
you know,

1327
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:43,960
related to raising the berm or continued

1328
00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:46,040
export of salts. But it's kind of like a

1329
00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:48,040
rebalancing. And so I think just not

1330
00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:49,600
knowing exactly where we're heading with

1331
00:46:49,600 --> 00:46:52,080
it. Um knowing that this is we're just

1332
00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:53,520
attempting to kind of rebalance that to

1333
00:46:53,520 --> 00:46:54,760
allow us to have a little bit more of a

1334
00:46:54,760 --> 00:46:56,720
buffer so we can continue with, you

1335
00:46:56,720 --> 00:46:58,920
know, normal operations or, you know,

1336
00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:00,320
additional modifications. And I think

1337
00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:01,440
that could be done with the letter as

1338
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:03,950
well.

1339
00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:05,480
» So does that

1340
00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:07,520
I can draft a letter after this meeting

1341
00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:09,240
and get it back out to everybody. And we

1342
00:47:09,240 --> 00:47:11,840
have a meeting next week on the 25th.

1343
00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:12,680
Um

1344
00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:15,600
does that slow you down if if we were to

1345
00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:17,400
vote and to approve this?

1346
00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:20,400
>> Could we do without the meeting on the

1347
00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:22,440
25th if we do this?

1348
00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:23,720
I'm just wondering if we need to turn

1349
00:47:23,720 --> 00:47:25,360
around and have a meeting in in like a

1350
00:47:25,360 --> 00:47:29,320
week. But this is going to be

1351
00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:32,880
>> Um I guess the other agenda items were

1352
00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:34,400
just talking about flows. We wanted to

1353
00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:37,000
talk about the hydraulic modeling that

1354
00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:40,000
Craig at Water Resources has been doing.

1355
00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:42,040
And we also had some membership changes

1356
00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:43,480
that we wanted to

1357
00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:44,920
talk about.

1358
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:46,160
So

1359
00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:48,680
I agree. There's We probably don't need

1360
00:47:48,680 --> 00:47:51,360
another update on lake conditions this

1361
00:47:51,360 --> 00:47:53,680
quickly. Um

1362
00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:56,000
and I think like those were the three

1363
00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:57,600
other agenda items we had in the agenda

1364
00:47:57,600 --> 00:47:58,800
that

1365
00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:00,360
we pushed off. All right.

1366
00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:02,480
>> My My thought is if it's possible to

1367
00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:03,960
just uh

1368
00:48:03,960 --> 00:48:06,160
you know, prove base the letter off of

1369
00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:07,960
the recommendation today

1370
00:48:07,960 --> 00:48:09,720
and vote and then if anybody feels that

1371
00:48:09,720 --> 00:48:10,640
the letter doesn't capture the

1372
00:48:10,640 --> 00:48:13,440
recommendation, we can reconvene, but I

1373
00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:15,320
think I would rather skip the 25th and

1374
00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:17,640
just have a meeting when it's timely and

1375
00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:18,600
we can go through the whole thing and

1376
00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:21,040
just put that to the next agenda. Should

1377
00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:22,080
have

1378
00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:24,200
um discussion on what not.

1379
00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:25,680
>> Yeah, Greg.

1380
00:48:25,680 --> 00:48:26,720
>> Yeah, uh

1381
00:48:26,720 --> 00:48:28,840
our presentation was going to be trying

1382
00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:30,880
to promote leveling out the berm, but it

1383
00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:32,320
sounds like that's going to be happening

1384
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:33,240
anyway.

1385
00:48:33,240 --> 00:48:35,800
So, uh our presentation isn't that

1386
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:36,840
important.

1387
00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:39,240
>> Um Greg, we we I would acknowledge the

1388
00:48:39,240 --> 00:48:40,680
um I think we've

1389
00:48:40,680 --> 00:48:42,040
and Eric will be involved in this as

1390
00:48:42,040 --> 00:48:43,920
well, but we'll we'll work with Union

1391
00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:45,480
Pacific to try to keep it as level and

1392
00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:46,840
uniform as possible. I think it's going

1393
00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:48,600
to be kind of based on, you know, what

1394
00:48:48,600 --> 00:48:49,800
they can do with their equipment, but I

1395
00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:51,320
think, you know, you talked with Eric

1396
00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:52,400
from your division, I think he's going

1397
00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:55,040
to be involved in this. And so he can uh

1398
00:48:55,040 --> 00:48:56,880
hopefully help guide them or come up

1399
00:48:56,880 --> 00:48:59,400
with some strategies to measure and make

1400
00:48:59,400 --> 00:49:04,590
sure that stays uniform.

1401
00:49:04,600 --> 00:49:06,640
» All right. Well, as one quick option, if

1402
00:49:06,640 --> 00:49:09,680
I add the the phrase that as they see

1403
00:49:09,680 --> 00:49:11,160
the Seliner Advisory Committee

1404
00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:13,960
recognizes an opportunity

1405
00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:15,760
short-term opportunity to measure the

1406
00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:17,040
flux

1407
00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:19,800
and with bi-directional flow.

1408
00:49:19,800 --> 00:49:24,040
Period. The SAC recommends this.

1409
00:49:24,040 --> 00:49:25,120
With that,

1410
00:49:25,120 --> 00:49:26,080
I guess

1411
00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:27,880
then do we need a letter?

1412
00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:30,440
Or is a motion sufficient for the

1413
00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:32,080
agencies or the nations?

1414
00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:33,760
>> I think a motion is good enough for me,

1415
00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:35,200
especially if we just draft it now. I

1416
00:49:35,200 --> 00:49:35,840
don't think we need [clears throat] an

1417
00:49:35,840 --> 00:49:37,480
official letter from the SAC.

1418
00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:39,480
I think a motion we can just take that

1419
00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:41,040
and run with it. I don't know, Jim, do

1420
00:49:41,040 --> 00:49:45,790
you feel differently?

1421
00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:47,240
» I still think we need to have that

1422
00:49:47,240 --> 00:49:48,640
discussion.

1423
00:49:48,640 --> 00:49:49,960
Um and maybe we should have a meeting

1424
00:49:49,960 --> 00:49:53,480
soon to talk about what flexibilities we

1425
00:49:53,480 --> 00:49:55,040
have.

1426
00:49:55,040 --> 00:49:57,040
Again, it may not be it may be a moot

1427
00:49:57,040 --> 00:49:59,040
point if we're not

1428
00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:00,760
if it's not anticipated to change

1429
00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:03,000
salinity that dramatically or that

1430
00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:04,600
urgently

1431
00:50:04,600 --> 00:50:06,880
to to to trigger anything, then it's you

1432
00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:08,080
know

1433
00:50:08,080 --> 00:50:09,640
it's probably not

1434
00:50:09,640 --> 00:50:10,560
uh

1435
00:50:10,560 --> 00:50:11,400
>> I think we

1436
00:50:11,400 --> 00:50:13,080
see conjunction, right? Like they could

1437
00:50:13,080 --> 00:50:15,120
be we could do this in tandem where we,

1438
00:50:15,120 --> 00:50:16,760
you know, work on the berm modification

1439
00:50:16,760 --> 00:50:18,080
then work through the, you know,

1440
00:50:18,080 --> 00:50:21,120
whatever potential interpretations of

1441
00:50:21,120 --> 00:50:23,440
you know, de minimis or rule changes or

1442
00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:25,280
whatever else we need to do, but I think

1443
00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:27,560
at the end of the day, you know,

1444
00:50:27,560 --> 00:50:29,720
we'll we'll have to come to some

1445
00:50:29,720 --> 00:50:31,080
I guess get comfortable with the idea

1446
00:50:31,080 --> 00:50:32,160
that like the rule's not going to be

1447
00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:34,200
changed today. So, we ought to operate

1448
00:50:34,200 --> 00:50:36,040
under the current rule and if, you know,

1449
00:50:36,040 --> 00:50:38,200
Joe if you don't like where it's at, you

1450
00:50:38,200 --> 00:50:39,840
know, your vote could reflect that and

1451
00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:40,880
we could, you know, we'll we'll

1452
00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:41,960
definitely consider that. I think it's

1453
00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:43,200
part of the conversation, but I think

1454
00:50:43,200 --> 00:50:44,720
the, you know, the end of the day as

1455
00:50:44,720 --> 00:50:47,320
well like I think solidity target

1456
00:50:47,320 --> 00:50:50,120
projections were like 147, am

1457
00:50:50,120 --> 00:50:52,240
>> I correct Christine? 147 ish?

1458
00:50:52,240 --> 00:50:54,320
>> That was actually for the scenario where

1459
00:50:54,320 --> 00:50:57,120
we take the berm out. So, just as is no

1460
00:50:57,120 --> 00:50:58,840
berm modifications are 140.

1461
00:50:58,840 --> 00:51:01,040
>> 140, but if we take the berm out with

1462
00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:02,840
the modification we're coming out close

1463
00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:05,760
to 150, but we're maybe not even

1464
00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:07,680
we may not even exceed 150. So, we don't

1465
00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:09,280
know that we're going to exceed it by

1466
00:51:09,280 --> 00:51:11,320
doing this action. We're talking 7 g per

1467
00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:13,240
meter based on projections. We all know

1468
00:51:13,240 --> 00:51:14,880
that that's not perfect like there's

1469
00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:17,160
other things can happen. Evaporation can

1470
00:51:17,160 --> 00:51:18,720
increase. We don't know when we'll have

1471
00:51:18,720 --> 00:51:22,560
to raise the berm if we have to etc. But

1472
00:51:22,560 --> 00:51:24,960
the idea of being that like immediately

1473
00:51:24,960 --> 00:51:27,040
as we hit the low, we're likely going to

1474
00:51:27,040 --> 00:51:28,760
start dropping on salinity based off of

1475
00:51:28,760 --> 00:51:30,000
inflows of Bear River. So, it's going to

1476
00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:32,320
be likely be temporary and it's also to

1477
00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:34,600
prepare us for the continued export of

1478
00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:36,000
salt to the North Arc. So, it's really

1479
00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:37,920
kind of trying to, you know, keep the

1480
00:51:37,920 --> 00:51:39,960
model the machine running and keeping

1481
00:51:39,960 --> 00:51:42,360
everything you know, well balanced. So,

1482
00:51:42,360 --> 00:51:44,160
again, I I think we operate under that

1483
00:51:44,160 --> 00:51:46,240
status, but Jim, I guess my question was

1484
00:51:46,240 --> 00:51:48,360
more about like, you know, do you need a

1485
00:51:48,360 --> 00:51:49,920
letter from the salinity committee for

1486
00:51:49,920 --> 00:51:51,480
your division to take a recommendation

1487
00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:53,600
cuz usually they recommend it back to

1488
00:51:53,600 --> 00:51:55,080
our division and your division and I

1489
00:51:55,080 --> 00:51:56,680
think for our purpose

1490
00:51:56,680 --> 00:51:59,000
if we were to write this now and it's

1491
00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:01,720
just simply uh you know uh

1492
00:52:01,720 --> 00:52:03,480
us taking this recommendation as

1493
00:52:03,480 --> 00:52:05,160
drafted, that would be good enough for

1494
00:52:05,160 --> 00:52:07,640
me. I don't need it to be re-stated on

1495
00:52:07,640 --> 00:52:08,960
the letter. So, I'm wondering if that

1496
00:52:08,960 --> 00:52:10,400
would be good enough for you as well.

1497
00:52:10,400 --> 00:52:11,720
Then then we don't have to worry about

1498
00:52:11,720 --> 00:52:13,400
voting on a letter later.

1499
00:52:13,400 --> 00:52:16,160
>> Yeah. Uh yeah, I don't

1500
00:52:16,160 --> 00:52:18,360
No, I know I know traditionally we have

1501
00:52:18,360 --> 00:52:21,560
done letters, I think, but um

1502
00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:23,480
you know, this is

1503
00:52:23,480 --> 00:52:25,080
That's a I don't know. I don't have an

1504
00:52:25,080 --> 00:52:26,520
answer to that question, to be honest.

1505
00:52:26,520 --> 00:52:27,680
Um if it's good enough for you, I

1506
00:52:27,680 --> 00:52:29,760
suppose it's sufficient as long as

1507
00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:31,000
there's some

1508
00:52:31,000 --> 00:52:33,040
communication to our division.

1509
00:52:33,040 --> 00:52:34,320
>> Good enough for you too, I guess you're

1510
00:52:34,320 --> 00:52:37,030
saying. [laughter]

1511
00:52:37,040 --> 00:52:39,280
No, I That makes sense to me. I We can

1512
00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:41,040
if we need to put it on a letterhead as

1513
00:52:41,040 --> 00:52:43,320
stated, we could do that, right? Jeff,

1514
00:52:43,320 --> 00:52:44,800
you could always do that and it'd just

1515
00:52:44,800 --> 00:52:46,600
be as stated. We don't have to add

1516
00:52:46,600 --> 00:52:48,000
anything to it. So,

1517
00:52:48,000 --> 00:52:51,320
that that'd be fine as well if it's not

1518
00:52:51,320 --> 00:52:53,400
>> So, I mean

1519
00:52:53,400 --> 00:52:54,520
Hopefully you all can see it on the

1520
00:52:54,520 --> 00:52:56,120
screen, but I just added the sentence

1521
00:52:56,120 --> 00:52:58,360
the salinity committee recognizes a

1522
00:52:58,360 --> 00:53:00,800
short-term opportunity to modify

1523
00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:02,720
adaptive management berm in the new

1524
00:53:02,720 --> 00:53:06,080
breach of the UP causeway to measure and

1525
00:53:06,080 --> 00:53:07,720
better understand changes in salt and

1526
00:53:07,720 --> 00:53:11,920
nitrogen flux due to bidirectional flow.

1527
00:53:11,920 --> 00:53:13,920
The committee recommends that the berm

1528
00:53:13,920 --> 00:53:15,880
should be lowered as soon as practical

1529
00:53:15,880 --> 00:53:17,160
to a

1530
00:53:17,160 --> 00:53:19,080
target near the original configuration

1531
00:53:19,080 --> 00:53:22,320
and elevation of 41.83. It is intended

1532
00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:24,080
that this modification is temporary and

1533
00:53:24,080 --> 00:53:25,400
will enable close monitoring and

1534
00:53:25,400 --> 00:53:27,560
evaluation of the water salt and

1535
00:53:27,560 --> 00:53:29,000
nitrogen flux through the breach

1536
00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:30,160
opening.

1537
00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:32,040
Monitoring intensity should be increased

1538
00:53:32,040 --> 00:53:38,790
during this period.

1539
00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:40,016
I captured everything.

1540
00:53:40,016 --> 00:53:40,400
>> [clears throat]

1541
00:53:40,400 --> 00:53:42,320
>> I think that works for me.

1542
00:53:42,320 --> 00:53:45,720
>> All right. Well, then I think um

1543
00:53:45,720 --> 00:53:47,720
there isn't any more discussion on that.

1544
00:53:47,720 --> 00:53:49,360
I think let's

1545
00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:50,720
I guess I need somebody from the

1546
00:53:50,720 --> 00:53:54,230
committee to make the motion.

1547
00:53:54,240 --> 00:53:55,560
» So moved.

1548
00:53:55,560 --> 00:53:58,360
>> Don, thank you. Second?

1549
00:53:58,360 --> 00:53:59,680
Anybody like to second it?

1550
00:53:59,680 --> 00:54:01,040
>> Second.

1551
00:54:01,040 --> 00:54:02,640
>> Bill, great.

1552
00:54:02,640 --> 00:54:08,320
Um so then I will just run through the list of

1553
00:54:08,320 --> 00:54:10,960
committee members and you can vote

1554
00:54:10,960 --> 00:54:13,000
yes or no.

1555
00:54:13,000 --> 00:54:15,360
record um

1556
00:54:15,360 --> 00:54:18,160
So Christine and Ryan, you are cannot

1557
00:54:18,160 --> 00:54:19,160
vote

1558
00:54:19,160 --> 00:54:26,000
as per USGS rules. So Bonnie and Baxter.

1559
00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:28,840
>> I I vote yay.

1560
00:54:28,840 --> 00:54:33,440
>> Um I guess Thomas isn't here, but Tim Hawks.

1561
00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:35,320
>> Yes.

1562
00:54:35,320 --> 00:54:37,200
>> Travis Feeney.

1563
00:54:37,200 --> 00:54:39,280
>> No.

1564
00:54:39,280 --> 00:54:40,960
>> Bill Johnson.

1565
00:54:40,960 --> 00:54:43,240
>> Yes.

1566
00:54:43,240 --> 00:54:44,160
>> Tom Loftus.

1567
00:54:44,160 --> 00:54:45,320
>> Yes.

1568
00:54:45,320 --> 00:54:47,000
>> Craig Miller.

1569
00:54:47,000 --> 00:54:49,430
>> Yes.

1570
00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:51,320
» And I think Andrew is not here, so

1571
00:54:51,320 --> 00:54:54,800
Elliot is not here. Elliot, yes.

1572
00:54:54,800 --> 00:54:57,080
And then

1573
00:54:57,080 --> 00:55:01,710
Ryan or Travis.

1574
00:55:01,720 --> 00:55:07,030
I think I saw a Travis Anderson on

1575
00:55:07,040 --> 00:55:09,000
» Yes.

1576
00:55:09,000 --> 00:55:11,080
>> Okay.

1577
00:55:11,080 --> 00:55:15,910
And I think that is

1578
00:55:15,920 --> 00:55:20,680
Yeah, so we have seven yes and one no.

1579
00:55:20,680 --> 00:55:23,080
Um and so I think just with the the way

1580
00:55:23,080 --> 00:55:25,800
we've operated in the past um Joe, if

1581
00:55:25,800 --> 00:55:27,600
there's something you want to provide to

1582
00:55:27,600 --> 00:55:32,150
the agencies as well

1583
00:55:32,160 --> 00:55:34,800
to document your concern then then like

1584
00:55:34,800 --> 00:55:36,880
consider that as well. Um

1585
00:55:36,880 --> 00:55:40,080
but the motion carries and

1586
00:55:40,080 --> 00:55:42,680
I will forward this motion

1587
00:55:42,680 --> 00:55:48,470
to the DEQ and Porsche and say lands.

1588
00:55:48,480 --> 00:55:50,920
Good. Great.

1589
00:55:50,920 --> 00:55:53,600
So any So I guess path forward

1590
00:55:53,600 --> 00:55:55,990
and that's

1591
00:55:56,000 --> 00:55:57,040
» So I think once we get this

1592
00:55:57,040 --> 00:56:00,200
recommendation we'll make a decision

1593
00:56:00,200 --> 00:56:03,360
you know on the burn and then work with

1594
00:56:03,360 --> 00:56:05,760
Union Pacific to get this going.

1595
00:56:05,760 --> 00:56:08,800
And then I think we should probably I'd

1596
00:56:08,800 --> 00:56:11,320
love to meet with you and Christina on

1597
00:56:11,320 --> 00:56:13,280
what this monitoring looks like and

1598
00:56:13,280 --> 00:56:16,040
figure out how we ramp that up based on

1599
00:56:16,040 --> 00:56:18,000
this recommendation and then I I would

1600
00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:20,760
also suggest we cancel the meeting next

1601
00:56:20,760 --> 00:56:24,320
week and reschedule so we can

1602
00:56:24,320 --> 00:56:26,440
do that when we have something more to

1603
00:56:26,440 --> 00:56:27,440
report there.

1604
00:56:27,440 --> 00:56:29,400
>> The next regularly scheduled meeting is

1605
00:56:29,400 --> 00:56:32,000
August 27th and then after that it was

1606
00:56:32,000 --> 00:56:33,320
October 22nd.

1607
00:56:33,320 --> 00:56:34,760
>> Could we do one like the first week of

1608
00:56:34,760 --> 00:56:36,720
August?

1609
00:56:36,720 --> 00:56:38,640
Just cuz if we're our projections are

1610
00:56:38,640 --> 00:56:41,000
showing that like mid to late August

1611
00:56:41,000 --> 00:56:43,160
could be when we're approaching 41 idea

1612
00:56:43,160 --> 00:56:44,920
I think it'd be good to kind of wrap up

1613
00:56:44,920 --> 00:56:47,120
or ramp up

1614
00:56:47,120 --> 00:56:48,680
you know after our ramp up monitoring

1615
00:56:48,680 --> 00:56:50,480
kind of provide those results and make a

1616
00:56:50,480 --> 00:56:51,800
decision then on

1617
00:56:51,800 --> 00:56:53,920
whether or not when

1618
00:56:53,920 --> 00:56:55,320
anything else should happen.

1619
00:56:55,320 --> 00:56:58,960
>> Like Thursday the 6th. August 6th.

1620
00:56:58,960 --> 00:57:01,480
>> You're planning your life out that far.

1621
00:57:01,480 --> 00:57:02,960
I like certainly like that other part

1622
00:57:02,960 --> 00:57:04,080
but I'm wondering do you think we could

1623
00:57:04,080 --> 00:57:05,520
just do a dual

1624
00:57:05,520 --> 00:57:08,000
for that rather than pair to schedule

1625
00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:09,520
since there's only 1 minute left in our

1626
00:57:09,520 --> 00:57:10,960
scheduled meeting.

1627
00:57:10,960 --> 00:57:12,720
>> And then I guess the other thing is just

1628
00:57:12,720 --> 00:57:17,160
that you and and DEQ talk about the

1629
00:57:17,160 --> 00:57:18,320
>> Yeah and I

1630
00:57:18,320 --> 00:57:20,440
Joe like as Jeff offered you know with

1631
00:57:20,440 --> 00:57:22,320
your concern which we I think we all

1632
00:57:22,320 --> 00:57:24,200
understand the concern. I think that'd

1633
00:57:24,200 --> 00:57:25,560
be appropriate if you reached out and

1634
00:57:25,560 --> 00:57:27,880
just asked to you know to discussion

1635
00:57:27,880 --> 00:57:29,800
based on that to see what kind of you

1636
00:57:29,800 --> 00:57:31,920
know flexibility or or how that gets

1637
00:57:31,920 --> 00:57:33,200
covered and then we can take it from

1638
00:57:33,200 --> 00:57:34,240
there and see what we can do in the

1639
00:57:34,240 --> 00:57:35,840
interim, because it sounds like that is

1640
00:57:35,840 --> 00:57:38,840
the the primary concern. So, okay.

1641
00:57:38,840 --> 00:57:40,960
>> Yeah, sounds good. Sounds good, man.

1642
00:57:40,960 --> 00:57:42,480
>> All right. Perfect.

1643
00:57:42,480 --> 00:57:43,200
>> All right.

1644
00:57:43,200 --> 00:57:46,240
So, we'll um Angela's going

1645
00:57:46,240 --> 00:57:48,240
to pass out a doodle poll to schedule

1646
00:57:48,240 --> 00:57:49,800
our next meeting. The intent is the

1647
00:57:49,800 --> 00:57:52,000
first part of August. We're canceling

1648
00:57:52,000 --> 00:57:53,840
next week's meeting, so we'll get that

1649
00:57:53,840 --> 00:57:55,880
off everybody's calendar.

1650
00:57:55,880 --> 00:57:58,160
And um

1651
00:57:58,160 --> 00:58:00,480
I think with that Is there a motion to

1652
00:58:00,480 --> 00:58:02,880
adjourn?

1653
00:58:02,880 --> 00:58:03,440
>> Yes.

1654
00:58:03,440 --> 00:58:04,200
>> Don.

1655
00:58:04,200 --> 00:58:06,840
>> I'll pass. No motion to adjourn.

1656
00:58:06,840 --> 00:58:10,240
>> Second.

1657
00:58:10,240 --> 00:58:11,960
>> All right, thank Bonnie. All right, I

1658
00:58:11,960 --> 00:58:13,280
think we'll adjourn. Thank you,

1659
00:58:13,280 --> 00:58:15,880
everybody.