[0:00] order today is July 14th, 2026. I've got
[0:05] 5:02 p.m.
[0:06] Um
[0:08] we are ending this meeting for the
[0:14] Utah OHV Advisory Committee
[0:17] or Council, excuse me.
[0:19] Um
[0:20] Just [snorts] a couple items on the
[0:22] agenda. Um real quick, let's go through
[0:25] and do introductions. We have a couple
[0:27] of new members we'd like to welcome
[0:29] um Dean and Lacy to our Council
[0:33] as our newest members.
[0:35] Um we'll have
[0:38] uh introductions here real quick. We'll
[0:40] go around the room.
[0:42] Um we'll start in the
[0:45] uh office in Salt Lake. If you guys
[0:47] don't mind going around the room
[0:49] and tell us your name and what your role
[0:52] is in relation to the Council
[0:54] and then we'll go through everybody
[0:58] that's online.
[1:01] » Okay. Uh my name is Rachel Toker. I
[1:03] oversee and manage the OHV Recreation
[1:06] Grant for the state.
[1:08] >> I'm Maureen Casper. I manage contracts
[1:10] and compliance for the division.
[1:12] >> I'm Evan Bych. I administer the
[1:13] recreational trails program for the
[1:15] division.
[1:18] » I'm Wendy Harley, Land Trails and
[1:19] Planning Program Director.
[1:22] >> Tara McKee, uh Deputy Director over grants and youth
[1:27] and um
[1:28] Come on.
[1:32] Youth engagement, sorry.
[1:33] >> I'm Thomas Shoemaker, Program
[1:35] Superintendent. I oversee all things
[1:37] Shoemaker in the
[1:38] state of the division.
[1:41] >> Mike Ennis, I'm the Operations
[1:43] Coordinator for the Trail Crew Program.
[1:46] >> Jason Curry, Division Director.
[1:48] >> Okay, thank you. Um we'll go around to
[1:51] the Council members now. I'm Jason
[1:53] Blank, an at large and chairman of the
[1:55] Council. Uh I am
[1:58] calling in from Vernal.
[2:00] Let's go to Scott.
[2:06] Can't hear you, Scott.
[2:09] Got to unmute.
[2:12] >> I'm sorry about that. I'm getting slow.
[2:15] I'm the off-road road
[2:17] off-road motorcycle rep and I live in
[2:20] Price, Utah.
[2:22] >> Okay, Mike.
[2:24] >> Uh Mike Cook. I'm the safety rep
[2:29] and I'm in
[2:31] >> Okay, Brody.
[2:33] >> Brody Johnson. I am the ATV
[2:35] representative from Enoch, Utah.
[2:39] >> Okay, Nicole.
[2:41] >> I'm Nicole Nelson. I'm with the Public
[2:43] Lands Policy Coordinating Office and I
[2:45] am also in Price, Utah.
[2:49] >> Okay, Brett.
[2:51] >> I am the full-size four-wheel drive rep
[2:55] and usually I'm in Draper, but today I'm
[2:57] in the bustling Midvale metroplex.
[3:03] » Okay, Russum.
[3:05] >> Russum.
[3:07] » Going down. Sorry. Russ.
[3:13] » Yeah, Russ Kazaer with Russ Lands
[3:15] Administration.
[3:17] I'm in Davis County. Layton is the city
[3:19] I live in.
[3:21] >> Thank you, Sheriff Curtis.
[3:25] » Sheriff Nathan Curtis, Sevier County
[3:26] Sheriff. I'm in Richfield and I am the
[3:29] search and rescue representative.
[3:33] » Okay, thank you. Um
[3:36] and then I think that's
[3:39] all of our
[3:40] standing board members that are here.
[3:42] Let's go ahead. Dean, why don't you
[3:44] introduce yourself?
[3:47] >> I'm I'm Dean Harris. I live in Mendon.
[3:50] Uh,
[3:50] I'm obviously the newest one of the
[3:52] newest members here and excited to join
[3:55] and
[3:56] learn some of the
[3:58] ins and outs of this division.
[4:01] >> Thank you, Dean. Lacey.
[4:04] >> Hi, I'm Lacey and I own D&P Performance
[4:08] in Cedar City.
[4:10] I'll be the dealer shop representative.
[4:14] >> Excellent. Welcome aboard.
[4:16] Um, and now Wade, why don't we have you
[4:19] introduce yourself?
[4:21] >> Yeah, Wade Alston, the OHV program
[4:23] manager.
[4:26] » Okay, thanks, Wade. I think that's
[4:28] everybody.
[4:30] Go ahead and move on to
[4:33] the first action item on our agenda,
[4:35] which is approval of the June 17 meeting
[4:37] minutes.
[4:39] Does anybody Everybody have chance to
[4:41] review those? Any comments or concerns
[4:43] or things that need to be adjusted?
[4:46] >> I do.
[4:51] You want to hear my my complaint?
[4:54] >> Yep.
[4:55] >> Okay, at 136.07,
[5:00] it talks about a fuel issue in Logan
[5:02] Canyon. I don't recall talking about
[5:05] anything in Logan Canyon dealing with
[5:07] single track and fuel shortages. So, I'm
[5:12] not sure where that came from, but I
[5:14] didn't say anything about it, I don't
[5:15] believe.
[5:20] » Where was that at again?
[5:22] >> I think it was This is Chair Curtis. I
[5:25] think there was a discussion about
[5:27] a project that had taken place up there
[5:29] at one time, getting fuel up to or a a
[5:33] coordinated project.
[5:36] That's what I remember that was talked
[5:37] about.
[5:39] >> I I know that our snowmobile club
[5:41] actually put a fuel tank up by the
[5:45] U dot shed for the groomers. That's
[5:48] probably what's what you're talking
[5:49] about.
[5:51] >> It is probably just a misprint of the
[5:54] name. Can you repeat the time period for
[5:57] it?
[5:58] >> 136.07
[6:02] » Okay.
[6:07] Uh,
[6:11] This would probably just be weighed.
[6:13] >> Yeah, you're giving me credit for
[6:14] something I didn't do.
[6:16] >> No, this was in our discussion about
[6:18] Dean.
[6:20] >> Yeah. [clears throat]
[6:22] » Snowmobiling single track fuel issues in
[6:25] Logan Canyon.
[6:29] It was probably snowmobile fuel issues.
[6:30] Is that Is that right?
[6:32] >> It was for the groomer.
[6:36] Groomers, I should say.
[6:39] >> Yes, that that's correct. Um, it
[6:42] probably ties back to that to the top of
[6:44] Utah helping us get us a temporary tank
[6:47] up there and we got a new one that's on
[6:50] the process of being up there.
[6:55] » We will
[6:57] make that change and change the name so
[6:59] that it no longer says Scott Wheeler.
[7:03] >> Okay. Thank you. Any other changes that
[7:05] need to be made?
[7:13] Okay.
[7:14] Um,
[7:16] All right, I'll accept the motion to
[7:18] approve the minutes as amended.
[7:21] >> This is Brody. I would I make a motion
[7:23] to approve the minutes as amended.
[7:28] >> This is Scott Wheeler. I will second
[7:29] that.
[7:31] >> Okay. Motion by Brody, second by Scott.
[7:34] All those in favor?
[7:36] >> I.
[7:40] » Any opposed?
[7:44] And
[7:45] Dean and Lacy, you can abstain from this
[7:47] one since you weren't part of that
[7:48] meeting.
[7:52] Okay.
[7:54] Um
[7:55] many meeting minutes have been approved.
[7:58] Um now we'll move on to our heavy
[8:00] equipment trail crew update. Um
[8:03] just to keep us all on schedule, we we
[8:07] need to uh keep this
[8:10] conversation brief.
[8:11] Um so
[8:13] we can all get on to the other things in
[8:15] our lives that are going on. So, some
[8:17] people have to be out of here at a hard
[8:19] 5:30, so let's make sure that we're efficient with our conversation
[8:24] and discussion today and
[8:26] um that being the case, uh Mike, if
[8:29] you've got a minute to go over the heavy
[8:32] equipment trail crew
[8:33] and where we're at. Um we recently
[8:37] funded
[8:38] or approved to fund um some heavy
[8:41] equipment
[8:43] uh for the trail crew and
[8:46] yeah, Mike, go ahead and take it away
[8:49] and then we'll have a discussion about
[8:51] it.
[8:53] >> Yeah, this is Mike Thomas. You get two
[8:54] Mikes on stage today, so um we'll work
[8:56] that out. But just just a really quick
[8:57] statement in the name of time, like you
[8:59] said, I respect that. We just appreciate
[9:01] um being here and
[9:02] >> [clears throat]
[9:02] >> as you've already set it up and teed it
[9:03] up great for us, we're looking at the
[9:05] heavy equipment section of the program
[9:07] and
[9:07] um it'll hopefully, you know, uh
[9:10] contribute to a more statewide effort
[9:11] and bigger scope of work and more things
[9:13] done. So,
[9:14] I won't stay online. I'll pass it to
[9:16] Mike Innis, operations coordinator, to
[9:19] go over details.
[9:21] >> Okay, yeah, thank you, everyone. This is
[9:23] what we're talking about here is a big
[9:24] step for this program that we're really
[9:26] excited about. Um so, we just wanted to
[9:28] run through this with you so you're all
[9:31] informed on our intended path forward.
[9:34] Um I'll try to get through this pretty
[9:36] quick and leave plenty of time for
[9:37] questions at the end, but um, just some
[9:39] background here as you all know,
[9:42] um, we're in year three of
[9:43] uh, having four
[9:45] uh, regional crews around the state um,
[9:48] conducting trail work. Over the years
[9:49] we've had an increasing demand for heavy
[9:52] equipment work and this year we did
[9:54] receive that funding.
[9:56] Um, so
[9:57] in original talks about this uh, heavy
[10:01] equipment operation, um, the original
[10:03] idea was that we would like we have uh,
[10:05] two newly hired employees that would
[10:09] function as the heavy equipment crew.
[10:11] Um, they would be based out of Richfield
[10:14] and be traveling around the entire state
[10:17] conducting that work. Uh, when we
[10:19] started looking into how this would
[10:21] work, we started
[10:22] um,
[10:23] realizing we we had a lot of variables,
[10:25] a lot of um,
[10:28] potential concerns and and a lot of
[10:30] costs associated with that operation.
[10:33] Um, so on this slide here we have just
[10:36] some of those things that um, we had
[10:38] uh, kind of realized throughout the
[10:40] planning process. Uh, those travel costs
[10:43] being a huge one. Um, just what it would
[10:45] take to actually move those people and
[10:47] equipment on a regular basis around the
[10:49] entire state of Utah.
[10:51] Um, with with some more concerns
[10:54] um, and and potentially roadblocks um,
[10:57] also listed on here, but this kind of
[10:59] made us uh, shift our focus
[11:02] um, sort of back to our trail crew
[11:05] program as a whole and the operation
[11:07] that we have been functioning off of um,
[11:10] with a regional approach. Um, we've been
[11:13] very successful with this operation. Um,
[11:16] just this past year we completed 156
[11:19] projects around the state
[11:21] um, with over 1500 hours of of crew time
[11:23] on that.
[11:25] Um, and so
[11:26] we are now looking to build upon that
[11:29] and just enhance what we're already
[11:31] operating out of
[11:33] when it comes to heavy equipment
[11:34] operation. And so our plan as of now,
[11:38] um
[11:39] this [snorts] is just the the house bill
[11:41] information coming from this
[11:42] legislation. Um and I do believe
[11:45] everything that we are planning to move
[11:47] forward does satisfy the language in
[11:49] this.
[11:50] And so our our plan now is to take again
[11:55] the the current model we're running with
[11:56] and have [clears throat] our crew
[11:58] supervisors be trained um to become
[12:01] equipment operators. Um so they would
[12:03] still stay within their regions. We
[12:05] would just get machines to them.
[12:07] Um and a big part of that also would be
[12:11] us creating four new positions for the
[12:13] program. So currently our crew leads are
[12:17] just seasonal roles. Um so a big part of
[12:20] this plan would be uh creating those
[12:22] four positions into full-time
[12:23] year-round.
[12:24] >> So can I just clarify that real quick?
[12:25] We're not creating four new positions.
[12:27] We're still creating two.
[12:29] But transit We're doing that by
[12:31] increasing four of them by half.
[12:33] >> Yes.
[12:33] >> That's probably a little There's a lot
[12:35] of nuance to that, but just want to make
[12:36] sure I'm clarifying. We're not adding
[12:38] four.
[12:39] We're just increasing four so that we
[12:41] have the equivalent of two FTEs added.
[12:43] >> Yes.
[12:43] >> Money-wise and position-wise.
[12:45] >> That is the intent to make them more
[12:46] capable, more robust. Yes.
[12:48] >> Yeah.
[12:48] >> Thanks, Jason.
[12:49] >> Thank you.
[12:50] Yeah, so what our plan for this and and
[12:52] the reason behind it would be this will
[12:54] allow us to now once once our
[12:56] supervisors are up and running with
[12:58] equipment operation, that'll allow them
[13:01] to then take a crew member um
[13:03] go and and conduct a a heavy equipment
[13:06] project while at the same time that crew
[13:08] lead is running the hand crew on a
[13:11] different project elsewhere. So really
[13:13] maximizing the amount of projects that
[13:15] we're able to to
[13:16] continue doing through the year.
[13:18] Um what adding that full-time year-round
[13:20] position also does is allows us to then
[13:24] uh continue to to do heavy equipment
[13:26] works throughout that off season,
[13:29] especially in our southern regions. And
[13:32] so, um we have already started planning
[13:35] for training opportunities. Um and here
[13:38] it says
[13:39] that we would be prioritizing this this
[13:42] off season, which is true, but
[13:44] we've already planned to to have to or
[13:47] to initiate
[13:48] our folks into training starting next
[13:51] month. Um so, we're already lining that
[13:53] up and and getting that stuff ready
[13:56] um when it comes to preparation.
[13:59] Um like I had mentioned before, the the
[14:01] travel aspect of that one crew working
[14:03] all around the state was
[14:05] a huge barrier and and I think would
[14:07] really reduce the amount of work done.
[14:10] With this model that I'm talking about
[14:12] right now,
[14:14] we will at minimum be doubling the
[14:16] amount of projects around the state that
[14:18] we would be able to do with that one
[14:20] crew. And I think we'll be able to do it
[14:22] much more effectively and be able to
[14:24] spread that work around the state much
[14:26] more effectively.
[14:29] Um so, here
[14:31] just some more general benefits of of
[14:34] what we're talking about here.
[14:36] More operators that are capable to do
[14:38] this work around the state.
[14:40] Drastically reducing ongoing costs when
[14:43] it comes to travel
[14:45] and and those types of expenses.
[14:48] And
[14:49] more career progression. We're really
[14:51] hoping that this is something that
[14:53] will help us with both recruitment and
[14:55] retention when it comes to our employees
[14:57] cuz we're really giving them the skills
[14:59] and certifications to really to build a
[15:02] career within DNR.
[15:04] Um
[15:07] So,
[15:08] the funding that we're receiving was
[15:10] noted on one of the earlier slides, but
[15:13] it was broken down to ongoing and then
[15:15] we are receiving some one-time funding.
[15:17] So, we do we are cutting um of the the
[15:22] one-time funding needs um through this
[15:25] model when it comes to additional
[15:28] uh vehicles and trailers and things like
[15:30] that. Um but we hope to be able to use
[15:32] some of that money to purchase more
[15:34] equipment um that we can distribute
[15:36] throughout the state so we're not having
[15:37] to do as much sharing and transporting
[15:40] machines um when needed.
[15:43] Um but that is our plan there.
[15:47] And
[15:49] yeah, that's the
[15:51] very high-level overview of what we're
[15:53] looking to do. So I just wanted to open
[15:54] up um open it up to you all for any
[15:57] questions you have.
[16:00] >> Uh this this is Brody. I got um a
[16:02] couple, but I'll just start out with the
[16:04] first one.
[16:05] Is
[16:06] your the the when you say full-time or or year-round, on here it said during
[16:14] the off-season you'd be doing training.
[16:15] So during the off-season there would be
[16:17] no heavy equipment work?
[16:20] >> Um no, so that when I mentioned that um
[16:23] that would be prioritizing heavy
[16:26] equipment training during this
[16:28] off-season of of 2026.
[16:31] Um and that that's just because that
[16:33] would be the the most amount of time we
[16:36] would have to just be able to just focus
[16:38] on that and not have those supervisors
[16:40] working heavy crew projects at the same
[16:42] time. Um but yeah, ongoing into the
[16:45] future we would with with these two
[16:47] employees that would be working through
[16:49] the winter in each region, um we would
[16:52] plan to continue heavy equipment
[16:53] projects throughout the winter.
[16:56] >> Now, when you say region, uh besides
[16:59] the Richfield, what other two regions
[17:01] are you talking about?
[17:06] » Are are you referring to where work
[17:09] would be
[17:09] >> You said three regions. What what are
[17:12] the three regions?
[17:14] >> Um so four regions we have right now. We
[17:16] have our northern region, um which is
[17:19] Salt Lake City all the way over to
[17:21] Vernal.
[17:22] And then we have southeast, which is
[17:25] based out of Moab, central in Richfield,
[17:28] and southwest out of Cedar City.
[17:30] >> All right. And then
[17:32] do you anticipate using the heavy
[17:34] equipment crew
[17:36] in northern Utah during the winter?
[17:41] » Sorry,
[17:43] >> All right. Do you anticipate a need or
[17:46] are you using the heavy equipment crew
[17:49] in northern Utah during the winter
[17:51] months?
[17:53] >> I think the the work need would be the
[17:56] lowest with our northern crew throughout
[17:59] the winter.
[18:00] But again, that that region is our
[18:02] biggest. It spans all the way over to
[18:04] the Vernal area. And so I think there still is potential there.
[18:08] And I think that off-season will also
[18:10] give us the opportunity to have regions
[18:13] combine on projects, too. And so I I
[18:16] think it it could definitely be
[18:19] an ongoing thing where our north region
[18:22] employees could go down to Moab or
[18:26] the Cedar City area and assist with
[18:29] heavy equipment projects having multiple
[18:31] machines on those projects as well.
[18:33] >> And then my last one for a little bit
[18:35] cuz I'm hogging up the time.
[18:38] Will the heavy equipment crew be used on
[18:41] anything non-motorized?
[18:46] » Yeah, we're we're still talking about
[18:49] all of that.
[18:51] I think the intention here would be
[18:53] initially they would be focused on on
[18:55] motorized work. But I think just over
[18:58] time we would weigh kind of
[19:01] what time we have and how to distribute
[19:03] that work.
[19:04] >> And and I And to be clear, too, this is
[19:06] a this is a legislative appropriation.
[19:08] Legislature appropriated funds to pay
[19:10] for these two employees.
[19:12] Some of those funds came from the OHV
[19:14] account, some of them came from the
[19:15] outdoor adventure fund. So, there's
[19:18] justification for some non-motorized,
[19:20] but like Mike said, pretty much
[19:22] exclusively motorized.
[19:24] >> Yes.
[19:25] So, how much of the total amount was
[19:28] from the OHV fund and how much from the
[19:30] legislature? Was that the
[19:34] that
[19:35] 15 or 80,000 or whatever that was? Um
[19:38] 80,000?
[19:40] >> Yeah, it was 80,000 from outdoor fund
[19:43] and and 380 from OHV.
[19:46] >> And what was from And and which was from
[19:48] Sorry, again. What was from the
[19:49] legislature out of those that that fund?
[19:52] >> Okay, it was all from the legislature,
[19:55] but the legislature appropriates funding
[19:57] from different sources. One source, uh
[20:00] the OHV restricted account, 380.
[20:02] >> Yes.
[20:03] >> And then another source, the outdoor
[20:05] adventure fund, they appropriated
[20:07] >> 80.
[20:07] >> Yeah, another 80. So, yeah. So, a total of 460. So, yeah,
[20:12] the vast majority of it from the OHV
[20:15] restricted account.
[20:16] >> Okay. Thank you.
[20:19] >> I have a just a comment, no questions.
[20:22] Uh 20 minutes isn't enough time to
[20:24] discuss what's going on here.
[20:26] Uh
[20:27] so, I'm just throwing that out. There's
[20:29] no way we can discuss the needs of this
[20:31] and come up with a consensus
[20:33] in 20 minutes. And so, that's my two
[20:36] cents.
[20:38] >> I would agree with Scott on this. Um I
[20:41] have
[20:42] I don't know. I have some concerns.
[20:44] Seems like uh we're
[20:47] getting awful close to mixing motorized
[20:49] with non-motorized. I realize that
[20:51] there's a portion of the money that came
[20:52] from the outdoor adventure fund, but um
[20:56] I just
[20:58] I visited with Mike Johnson
[21:00] just real quick before the meeting. I
[21:02] want to visit with him more, but I kind of expressed I'm not sure how
[21:07] you'll save and travel.
[21:09] You know, cuz if you have to load those
[21:11] up,
[21:12] you know, unless you're working in your
[21:13] backyard, you have to load that
[21:15] equipment up and
[21:17] you know,
[21:18] pay people to go out to burn oil per se,
[21:20] you know, so you you're still going to
[21:22] have to pay the per diem
[21:24] and everything.
[21:26] Um
[21:27] seems like it might be easier to
[21:29] designate them as a motorized crew
[21:32] and have people that are super good at
[21:34] running the equipment.
[21:36] Uh not like that they wouldn't be, but
[21:39] it takes a long time to learn how to run
[21:41] equipment efficiently.
[21:43] Um
[21:46] seems like you'd be
[21:47] might be better off to designate them as
[21:50] a motorized crew and then
[21:53] use some of the if there is a
[21:54] non-motorized project to use some of
[21:57] that 80
[21:58] >> [cough and clears throat]
[21:59] >> to pay them to move in and clean up a
[22:02] trail head or something like that. Um
[22:05] then to kind of mix the pot.
[22:08] Uh
[22:09] I don't know. It just seems like it's
[22:10] complicating something that may not be
[22:14] uh
[22:15] might be easier to separate them and
[22:17] then just pull that money,
[22:19] you know, if we're needing motorized for
[22:21] not or heavy equipment for non-motorized
[22:23] projects, I have no problem with that.
[22:26] Uh but it might be easier to almost run
[22:29] them from the OHV program.
[22:31] Um and that that would keep everything
[22:34] clear and it'd be easy to see where the
[22:36] money's going.
[22:38] And I think I think one crew that has a
[22:41] little bit more flexible schedule
[22:44] actually, in my eyes, might be more
[22:46] efficient than four crews that are tied down cuz
[22:51] what if a job takes
[22:53] a three-day job turns into a five-day
[22:55] job or something like that. Um
[22:58] you know, you just can't necessarily go,
[23:00] "Oh,
[23:02] done our three days and we're gone." You
[23:04] know, especially with heavy equipment.
[23:07] Um but but I do
[23:09] agree with Scott. 30 minutes isn't or 20
[23:12] minutes isn't
[23:14] time enough to discuss all this, I don't
[23:16] think.
[23:17] So.
[23:18] >> What type of training have you looked at
[23:21] for this and what what's going to be
[23:22] required to do to operate this equipment
[23:25] on forest and
[23:27] um BLM ground?
[23:30] » Uh yeah, so BLM doesn't currently have
[23:33] any policy on this. Um the forest does
[23:35] have a certification program and I've
[23:38] spoken with Grant Julander from the
[23:40] Fishlake National Forest and he's he's
[23:42] certified to certify individuals on any
[23:46] type of heavy equipment. Um so he has
[23:48] agreed to to work with and and certify
[23:50] our crews on on all the machines that we
[23:53] will be working on.
[23:55] Um and then the the training that we're
[23:57] planning on sending folks to next month.
[24:00] >> Mike can leave you a little more info on
[24:02] that.
[24:02] >> Yeah, that's just something we've
[24:04] actually had invoice to every year no
[24:06] matter what staff we have. It's been out
[24:08] of Weber Basin for heavy equipment.
[24:11] Weber Basin Job Corps puts on one that
[24:13] actually it's the Forest Service that's
[24:15] partnership with them and they usually
[24:16] invite us every year to participate in.
[24:18] So we're going to make use of that even
[24:20] if that means
[24:21] we're going to go a little deeper to
[24:23] enhance the training for our specific
[24:24] purposes as well.
[24:28] » And uh
[24:30] this is Carly here. I'm just curious
[24:32] what other questions or information we
[24:34] could provide um if this is a
[24:37] conversation that needs more long-form
[24:39] discussion. We do a really great job of
[24:42] uh
[24:43] capturing all of the work that our trail
[24:45] crews do um on on the ground and so we
[24:49] are really confident in our ability to
[24:51] say, you know, our goals for the other
[24:53] crews are 50% non-motorized, 50%
[24:56] motorized. Um and so we can be really
[24:58] strategic in the way we plan out the
[25:00] season ahead to honor that percentage
[25:03] split between the
[25:04] um, outdoor adventure fund money and
[25:06] then the OHV account. So,
[25:09] I thought is a the big that's the
[25:11] concern that I'm kind of hearing
[25:13] here. Uh, and you know, Mike I think
[25:14] Mike Cook brought up a couple um, other
[25:17] concerns as well. But, um, just wanting
[25:19] to to have you all know that we're
[25:21] really confident in our ability to help
[25:23] track that. Um, and it's very it's
[25:27] plays into our integrity for where these
[25:28] funds come from, right? Um, I think we
[25:31] all look at ourselves as taxpayer
[25:33] stewards and if we can do something with
[25:36] the um,
[25:37] the allotment that we've been
[25:40] um,
[25:41] awarded, uh, entrusted with, if we can
[25:45] look at that money and and do more with
[25:47] it that we we that's why we wanted to
[25:49] have this conversation
[25:50] today with you all because we think we
[25:52] can really deliver more impact with
[25:55] these dollars
[25:57] by leveraging the efficiencies that
[25:59] already exist in our current operations.
[26:13] » Wade, do you have any input on this? I
[26:15] know you've got to take off here pretty
[26:16] quick, but
[26:19] if you don't mind.
[26:22] » You know, I I think this model could work.
[26:26] Um, I think the accountability piece
[26:29] needs to be in place.
[26:31] I do have some of the concerns
[26:34] uh, of, you know, making sure that uh,
[26:38] that it's focused primarily on
[26:42] um, motorized work rather than
[26:45] non-motorized. I think that was the
[26:47] spirit behind it. Regardless of where
[26:49] the funding comes from, I think that was
[26:51] how it was presented. That it was going
[26:54] to be working on motorized trails. So, I
[26:57] think we need to be
[26:59] pretty strong in that area. Um
[27:02] cuz that was the intent of it.
[27:06] >> Thank you.
[27:08] >> Yeah, maybe [clears throat] I'll just
[27:09] add a little bit more color to this cuz
[27:11] you hopefully you recall we um we sought
[27:15] the council's advice on the heavy
[27:17] equipment crew last year or earlier this
[27:20] year because that was our intent was to
[27:22] um
[27:23] to petition the legislature for an
[27:25] additional appropriation. So, um as it
[27:28] was uh
[27:29] as it was laid out at that time, it was
[27:31] a single crew.
[27:33] Um and so,
[27:35] when the legislature heard from me, uh
[27:37] the way I laid it out was a a crew based
[27:40] in Richfield, um heavy equipment for
[27:42] motorized use. And as um
[27:45] Mike Innis and Mike Thomas they have
[27:49] looked at it, they they have um
[27:51] a different approach. So, that's why we
[27:53] want to seek your advice is basically on
[27:57] that change of course. Is is this really
[28:00] um something that you you know, we're
[28:02] seeking your advice on? What do you What
[28:04] is your advice? Should we stick to the
[28:05] original plan, or should we modify it um
[28:09] to reflect this um
[28:11] and I do believe it it could really work
[28:14] better from an efficiency standpoint.
[28:16] You know, you talk about travel and per
[28:17] diem.
[28:18] A lot of these folks are probably going
[28:20] to be doing work within their home unit.
[28:22] So, they won't even have to do travel at
[28:23] all. If it's a Richfield-based crew,
[28:25] they would almost always have to travel
[28:26] unless they're doing it at in Richfield.
[28:28] So, there is that. I 100% agree, and
[28:31] it's my main focus is to make sure we
[28:32] get really solid, good operators out of
[28:35] this effort. I want to make sure that we
[28:38] have
[28:39] solid, solid training so that we are the
[28:41] experts so we can become through, you
[28:44] know, the the
[28:46] sort of distribution of this program
[28:48] throughout the four regions that that we
[28:50] get
[28:51] four really good strong experts in heavy
[28:53] equipment operation and and off-highway
[28:55] vehicle trail maintenance. I do agree
[28:58] with what Carly said, we're we've gotten
[28:59] a system down pat to where
[29:02] you know, mixing of motorized
[29:04] non-motorized and the hours that are
[29:05] spent I just don't see that happening.
[29:07] We've got a really really good system.
[29:09] The crews are meticulous in how they
[29:11] report that time. So,
[29:13] um
[29:15] just a little bit more flavor to it.
[29:16] Again, it's something that it's it
[29:18] represents a change in how we originally
[29:22] proposed this. And that's why we want
[29:23] your advice is to say, should we stick with the
[29:27] original plan or should we
[29:29] be agile and
[29:31] take a different approach?
[29:35] » I have a comment here right now.
[29:38] Is there a chart that's been put
[29:40] together where the the centralized where
[29:42] the most trails that need heavy
[29:45] equipment on in the state? I would
[29:47] assume more in the central part of the
[29:49] state would be where most of the
[29:52] maintenance is being done by heavy
[29:54] equipment. I don't know how much usage
[29:57] there is on non-motorized in the
[29:59] northern part, but
[30:01] I think the central part of the state
[30:03] has the the majority of
[30:06] the usage right now. I'm not sure, but
[30:08] does that has anybody kept track of
[30:10] that?
[30:11] >> That's a a great question. I'll chime in
[30:13] on that, too. So, one side of our team
[30:15] is on the trails, you know, they're
[30:16] moving dirt on the ground and the other
[30:18] side of our team is pretty sophisticated
[30:21] GIS mapping and data analytics experts.
[30:25] And we've been measuring outdoor
[30:27] recreation trends
[30:29] throughout the state of Utah and in doing some regional planning
[30:34] efforts where we're trying to unearth
[30:36] what are the community values,
[30:39] where do we need to put our resources?
[30:41] And overwhelmingly in the central part
[30:43] of the state. We're hearing
[30:45] that the motorized recreation is a huge
[30:48] part of the culture and and what makes
[30:50] that place so wonderful
[30:52] and that maintenance is a big huge
[30:54] priority. So, we are looking at at that.
[30:57] We still have more work to do and
[30:59] relying on locals to help lead the way
[31:02] and and and guide us.
[31:04] Um, since they know their backyards
[31:07] more than anyone else.
[31:10] >> How much
[31:11] coordinating goes on with the There's
[31:13] other
[31:15] pieces of heavy equipment that, you
[31:17] know, the the some of the the groups
[31:18] have, some of the the counties have. How
[31:21] much coordinating is going on with those
[31:23] groups in doing the heavy work?
[31:28] » [snorts]
[31:28] >> Yeah, I mean, currently that's that's
[31:29] something that that we're looking at
[31:31] just as a whole. I mean, again, you
[31:33] know, just this is an addition to a
[31:34] section of the program basically is a
[31:36] saying that we're we're ready to take on
[31:38] the heavy equipment world and to be able
[31:39] to coordinate that. So,
[31:41] we're looking looking forward to more
[31:42] collaboration on that.
[31:44] There's also future opportunities which
[31:46] I wouldn't, you know, necessarily
[31:47] promise here without looking at it, but
[31:49] where you got like a if a county has a
[31:51] machine, maybe they got grant funded,
[31:54] you know, a few years back or some at
[31:55] some point, but it may not be getting
[31:57] used. There may be some cross
[31:58] collaboration there where
[32:00] county is a branch of the state
[32:02] risk-wise or stuff that could be
[32:04] possibly worked out for the future for
[32:05] collaboration
[32:07] with those that already have the heavy
[32:08] equipment capability. So, yeah, we would also look forward to that and
[32:11] then I think the supervisors, if they
[32:14] were
[32:14] united in this opportunity,
[32:16] would play a larger role in in
[32:19] establishing those type of partnerships.
[32:23] » [snorts]
[32:25] » So, it sounds like there are are
[32:27] definitely some some lingering questions
[32:29] here.
[32:30] Um, I guess
[32:32] it appears like right now
[32:35] The the council wouldn't be comfortable
[32:37] offering advice either direction.
[32:39] Is that
[32:40] pretty much sum it up?
[32:43] >> Well, it sounds like we need some more
[32:45] discussion.
[32:45] >> more questions about like I said, 20 25
[32:48] minutes isn't enough time to discuss
[32:50] these things. Uh and and actually, I'm
[32:53] not privy to everything that's been
[32:54] going on and it would take a while to
[32:56] bring me up to speed so that I could
[32:59] make a good comment about what to do and not
[33:03] to do, but I would think you would want
[33:05] to centralize the equipment where the work is being done. If there's not
[33:09] any work being done in the northern part
[33:11] of the state, well, you wouldn't have
[33:13] the equipment there. You'd want to have
[33:14] it where the trails are at that's being
[33:16] used. Uh and I it looks like the major
[33:20] percentage of funding is coming from the
[33:23] motorized end of this, but uh and I have no problem in in working
[33:29] with the non-motorized side. I do
[33:31] non-motorized stuff myself.
[33:33] But, I we need to be accountable for
[33:35] where the money and the funding's coming
[33:37] from.
[33:39] >> Yeah, the accountability is not a
[33:40] question in my mind. That's that's very
[33:41] simple and straightforward. This is
[33:43] almost always going to be motorized.
[33:46] If there was non-motorized, it would be
[33:48] an exceptional case, but I don't think
[33:50] we're
[33:50] >> Cleaning up forest fire damage.
[33:54] >> What?
[33:54] >> Maybe cleaning up the damage from all
[33:56] the wildfires that we've had. Just
[33:59] getting the trail cleared off.
[34:02] >> Yeah. Yeah, so anyway, um I'll I'll I'll
[34:05] put it this way. If if, you know,
[34:07] if if there isn't advice either way,
[34:08] we'll probably just proceed with plan A
[34:11] at this point. You know, right now.
[34:13] Based on what we know now, based on what
[34:15] we're committed to,
[34:16] we will probably proceed
[34:18] with the original intent unless the
[34:21] council sees value in what's being
[34:22] proposed here today. But but, you know,
[34:25] open to open to it.
[34:27] >> I I guess ultimately,
[34:29] um
[34:29] maybe some direction on what what is
[34:31] needed from the council. Is it just a a
[34:34] vote to go one way or the other with
[34:36] this? Is it
[34:37] >> We're just seeking your advice. Um you
[34:40] know, plan A as we presented it
[34:42] originally to you all was um we would
[34:44] have one group and it would be based in
[34:46] Richfield. And um and so
[34:49] you know, I wish Mike would have been
[34:51] around at the time to to help with this
[34:52] thought process, but you know, but since
[34:55] we made that you know, that original
[34:58] plan
[34:59] um we're looking to potentially deviate
[35:02] from it and and take this re- more
[35:03] regional type approach. And so the
[35:06] decision's kind of already been made.
[35:07] You guys already bought off on it.
[35:09] Legislature's funded it to do a regional
[35:12] uh not regional, but a Richfield-based
[35:15] heavy equipment crew that will do
[35:17] um off-highway vehicle um trail
[35:20] maintenance from a heavy equipment
[35:22] perspective. Um
[35:24] So, we can't can't you know, what what is your advice when we we have
[35:28] this decision in front of us?
[35:30] That's kind of
[35:31] >> Can I just ask a question with this? And
[35:35] Mike and Mike
[35:36] uh
[35:38] help us understand. I mean
[35:40] dollar for dollar, what do you see
[35:44] um
[35:45] giving us more
[35:47] maintained trail
[35:50] with these two options?
[35:52] >> Yeah, I I I absolutely believe that the
[35:55] regional approach would be the best to
[35:57] use the taxpayer dollars here. I think
[35:59] we would um we would get way many
[36:01] projects out of this. Um from comments
[36:05] made about Central, like yes, we are
[36:07] doing um the our Central crew is doing uh the
[36:11] highest percentage of motorized work out
[36:13] of our other crews. Um and that is
[36:16] associated with the use there. Um but
[36:20] this this model wouldn't be saying that
[36:22] we wouldn't be focusing work there. We
[36:25] would just already have someone there
[36:27] that would be able to work there
[36:28] full-time rather than if we had this one
[36:31] crew
[36:32] for one we we couldn't just allow them
[36:35] to focus time there because this this
[36:37] funding is for a statewide effort.
[36:40] Um, and so
[36:41] having that been said that that if we
[36:44] had one crew there based out of there,
[36:46] they wouldn't be able to be doing
[36:48] projects when they're elsewhere
[36:49] throughout the state. And then on that
[36:51] travel aspect of things as Jason
[36:53] mentioned right now,
[36:55] um, our our projects and work locations
[36:57] if you look at our heat map
[36:59] um, of our regional crews,
[37:01] um, they're on average traveling an hour
[37:03] or less to their project sites. Whereas
[37:06] if this was one crew, they're traveling
[37:09] three plus hours to every project
[37:11] outside of central region. Um, which
[37:13] means that they do have they or they
[37:16] would have to be paid per diem and and
[37:19] we're talking probably a full day of
[37:21] travel out of each project. Um,
[37:25] and another aspect of this when it comes
[37:27] to just
[37:28] um, best use of funds, uh, I've I've
[37:31] talked to other organizations that have
[37:32] done something similar
[37:34] um, and heard a a lot of struggles. For
[37:36] instance, it we were when we were at the
[37:38] Mountain West Trails conference, I I
[37:39] spoke with um, state of Wyoming's trail
[37:43] crew. Um, they have a heavy equipment
[37:46] crew that's based out of one location
[37:47] that travels throughout the state. Um,
[37:49] and they they cannot hold on to
[37:52] employees to save their lives because
[37:54] it's asking a lot of someone um, to take
[37:57] a position where they are on the road
[37:59] almost constantly. Um, and and they even
[38:03] have some resources um, when it comes to
[38:06] lodging and things like that that we
[38:07] don't have access to right now. Um, so
[38:10] that that retention thing is a big part
[38:12] of this as well, but um, yeah, whereas
[38:16] back to the cost and travel and use of
[38:18] funds, I think investing in this um,
[38:22] would get the the most amount of
[38:24] projects throughout the state. I do
[38:26] believe that.
[38:28] >> Uh Jason, this is Scott. Uh
[38:31] what how much say does uh Wade have in
[38:33] what's going on here?
[38:35] Uh
[38:36] you know, he's supposed to be the OHP
[38:38] coordinator for the state. I I had I don't have enough information to
[38:44] give you an answer with what you're
[38:46] asking me. I have to rely on other
[38:48] people that are in the mix on this and
[38:51] know what's going on. And so, I don't
[38:53] almost have to say you'll have to let
[38:55] somebody else make the decision for me.
[38:58] >> Yeah, thanks [clears throat] Scott.
[38:59] Yeah, we're
[39:01] that's what that's what we're trying to
[39:02] provide here with Mike and Mike and uh
[39:04] you know, as far as Wade's support, I'll
[39:06] let him chime in, but you know,
[39:08] Mike's comment was that it he believes
[39:10] that it could be could be made made to
[39:13] work. Um Wade, anything else to add to
[39:15] that?
[39:16] >> No, I I I I believe this could work. Um
[39:21] and and I appreciate Mike's eyes
[39:24] thought and his forward thinking in
[39:25] this.
[39:26] Um
[39:27] I think just some of the concerns of the
[39:29] council need to be addressed and I I I I
[39:32] think it could work.
[39:34] very well.
[39:36] >> And I I need to I'll come at from a
[39:38] different angle as well. You know, part
[39:39] of my leadership,
[39:41] at least what I've tried to do is to
[39:43] stay ahead of kind of these these trends
[39:45] and these demands that we may have and
[39:47] anticipate some of those. And one
[39:49] important part of history a little bit
[39:50] is is
[39:51] you know, when we started this the trail
[39:53] tree program officially 2021 with two
[39:56] just seasonal employees going around the
[39:57] state that had very little training,
[39:59] very little background. I was able to
[40:01] give very little oversight due to many
[40:03] duties.
[40:04] Um you know, that was already a stretch
[40:05] and then we moved into four and six and
[40:07] grew bigger based on the demand. And one main concern that we did have along
[40:14] the way was
[40:15] how little time that these uh these
[40:17] crews based out of Salt Lake were
[40:20] uh you know, how much time they had to
[40:22] spend traveling, basically, as opposed
[40:24] to boots-on-the-ground work. Um and so,
[40:27] it's the exact same model, the way I see
[40:28] it. And then, from that from that demand
[40:29] grew the the idea of the four of the
[40:31] four regions to be able to multiply our
[40:33] efforts times four, which is where we
[40:35] sit now. So, I I see this as
[40:36] anticipating those issues and
[40:38] not that I want to express anything in
[40:39] the form of worry, but I also um our
[40:42] division worked really hard to secure
[40:43] this funding the way it sits for one
[40:45] region. And of course, we're talking
[40:46] about modifying and trying to enhance
[40:48] it, but
[40:49] I believe that demand will grow if we in
[40:51] any anyways, if we start out with
[40:53] central region, um I believe we will do
[40:55] our jobs and we'll we'll um perform, you
[40:58] know, at the highest level, and then I
[41:00] believe this will be a demand we'll have
[41:01] anyways, and I'm not sure if we'll be in
[41:03] a position to ask for further funding
[41:05] and enhancement later on. It's kind of
[41:07] hard to
[41:08] that's a hard thing to predict. So, um I
[41:10] believe we're getting ahead of trends
[41:11] and demand here as well.
[41:13] >> When we uh talked about this, you talked
[41:16] about the possibility that that the
[41:19] Richfield office or the Richfield heavy
[41:22] equipment equipment crew
[41:24] would set the model throughout the
[41:26] state, and we did forecast that we felt
[41:29] that it was going to
[41:30] work throughout the state, and that the
[41:33] model would start in Richfield to get
[41:35] the bugs worked out, but I think the
[41:37] model that Mike is presenting right now
[41:39] just pushes that along a little bit
[41:41] sooner than than what what we had talked
[41:46] about, but we did we did recognize that this is needed throughout the
[41:50] state, and maybe this model gives that
[41:52] opportunity to push it out a little
[41:54] faster.
[41:56] >> Could [clears throat] I propose to, you
[41:58] know, perhaps I mean, you all are
[41:59] motorized recreation experts. Um maybe
[42:03] you all can be involved in helping kind
[42:05] of set that brainstorming what a
[42:08] potential work schedule could look like,
[42:10] you know, statewide and and hoping
[42:13] helping jot out some of the priorities
[42:15] that you're seeing and hearing
[42:17] from the communities
[42:20] and on the ground.
[42:23] » And Nicole, I think one of your the
[42:26] whoever mentioned the fires earlier
[42:29] spot on. I think that right now is the
[42:32] biggest concern that everybody has is
[42:34] the damage to all the trails from all
[42:37] the fires
[42:38] and the forest service BLM probably
[42:41] won't be able to manage all of that on
[42:43] their own. I'd imagine that the these
[42:46] this heavy equipment crew would be
[42:48] highly focused on repairing all that
[42:51] damage as quickly as possible.
[42:54] And and so unless somebody else sees
[42:57] something different, that's what I'm
[42:59] envisioning right now anyway.
[43:01] >> Yeah, and I can positively speak to our
[43:02] relationship with the region four at
[43:04] forest service. They've group, you know,
[43:06] they've supported our efforts over the
[43:08] years no matter what they what they be what they are. Um
[43:12] and some of those discussions have come
[43:14] up where hey, you know, not that we want
[43:16] to be red carded and going to fight fire
[43:18] directly, but we do want to get trails
[43:20] reopened as quick as possible and
[43:21] protect that access in all areas of the
[43:23] state and efficiently as possible and
[43:25] that did come up where some
[43:27] authorizations could possibly be given
[43:28] for us to get in there as soon as
[43:31] possible to do our our our part in some
[43:33] of that work. So that's some good
[43:35] discussions I've had.
[43:37] >> Nicole, you've got your hand up.
[43:40] >> Yeah, I just kind of I guess now I have
[43:42] two items that I want to
[43:44] mention.
[43:45] Um kind of on the fire rehab one.
[43:47] Uh I've done a quite a bit of fire rehab
[43:50] work in my previous life and uh I would
[43:53] caution to get getting in there too
[43:54] quickly to do any rehab cuz it will take
[43:57] a few years for it to stabilize. So if
[44:00] you get in there immediately
[44:02] you know, one or two years after is a
[44:04] much better choice. So just throwing
[44:06] that out there because of the
[44:07] experiences I've had, but I just want to
[44:09] go back to I think it was Mike that was
[44:11] saying it's hard to see who's in the
[44:12] room, but I do think that what he's
[44:15] talking about with, you know, a
[44:17] work-life balance and having crews
[44:19] spread out across the state is really
[44:21] important because,
[44:23] you know,
[44:24] I mean, we all know people that have
[44:25] worked on construction crews that
[44:27] they're on the road all the time and
[44:28] they burn out pretty pretty heavily, and
[44:31] you know, as I think about, you know, as
[44:33] state employees,
[44:35] we we're here because we're passionate
[44:37] about it, not because of the the
[44:39] paychecks that we get. And so, I can't
[44:41] imagine that the heavy equipment crew is
[44:43] going to, you know, be making big bucks
[44:45] like, you know, some of these
[44:47] construction crews that make the David
[44:48] Bacon wages. So, I do think Mike makes a
[44:52] really good point about a work-life
[44:54] balance and keeping people happy and
[44:56] keeping them there once you've got them
[44:58] trained. So, I just wanted to
[44:59] acknowledge what Mike said.
[45:02] Thank you.
[45:03] >> I think to go along with that, too, um,
[45:05] in my experience,
[45:07] hiring traveling surveyors kind of the
[45:10] same way, it's really difficult to find
[45:12] somebody that's willing to travel.
[45:14] So, I understand that plight as well.
[45:21] Any other [snorts]
[45:22] council members,
[45:24] um,
[45:26] have ideas, questions, need to chime in
[45:28] here?
[45:30] >> I'm curious how you're going to allocate
[45:31] the equipment.
[45:34] I mean, there's two two sets of
[45:36] equipment, four regions. How does How
[45:39] does the equipment get dispersed, and
[45:41] how does that decision get made?
[45:45] >> Yeah, that's a great question. Um, so,
[45:47] right now, uh, our supervisors are
[45:50] setting their
[45:51] or putting their work schedules for the year,
[45:54] um, together during the winter, usually
[45:56] January-February time frame. Um, so,
[45:59] typically by March or April, they know
[46:02] where they're going to be and what
[46:03] projects they have on the schedule for
[46:05] that entire year. Um so, our plan
[46:08] as of right now would be to just monitor
[46:10] that and kind of make up a plan
[46:13] accordingly. Um we definitely want with
[46:15] the amount of work um and with uh
[46:18] the type of work our crews are doing in
[46:20] Moab right now, um we would definitely
[46:22] want to get equipment there
[46:24] um
[46:25] to live there just because of of how
[46:28] difficult it would be to to transport
[46:30] back and forth to that region. Um
[46:33] but then we would work uh our
[46:35] southwestern central region work very
[46:37] closely together
[46:39] um and so, if we had equipment um staged
[46:42] there as well, it would be really easy
[46:44] for those two
[46:46] um supervisors to to coordinate on on
[46:48] what equipment they needed and when um
[46:51] when it comes to that. But like I had
[46:52] mentioned in the beginning too, we are
[46:54] we're looking at some other funding
[46:56] sources as well to look at purchasing
[46:58] more equipment. Um again, just to to
[47:01] make this operation more efficient if we
[47:03] are to go this route. Um so, so that is
[47:07] uh in in our future plans as well.
[47:12] » Uh isn't there any way to go ahead and
[47:14] coordinate using I brought this question
[47:16] up to begin with what the equipment that
[47:18] the BLM has in Moab and have a trail
[47:21] crew of a dedicated trail go crew go use
[47:24] that equipment. Uh
[47:27] I I know over the years we've bought a
[47:29] um a number of trail cats and
[47:31] I don't know how available those are,
[47:34] but maybe we should pursue that avenue.
[47:39] » Yeah, and and we're totally open to
[47:41] those options. Right now, um
[47:44] the BLM doesn't have any equipment in
[47:45] Moab um but rather with respect to us to my understanding
[47:50] um but we we have a great example of
[47:52] that in Iron County. Um that county
[47:55] there bought a trail cat and in the
[47:59] county is assisting on on both BLM and
[48:01] forest projects there too. And so
[48:04] yeah, definitely looking to do more of that type of
[48:07] coordination into the future.
[48:10] >> Yeah, just to expand on that too. Again,
[48:11] just talking about future opportunities.
[48:13] Sort of like Jason was saying of
[48:15] becoming the experts more and more is
[48:16] you know,
[48:17] there's nothing again I always caveat of
[48:19] like nothing promised today necessarily
[48:21] but I I can see why
[48:24] as these supervisors grow their skills
[48:25] to be able to possibly teach courses at
[48:27] our program as well to be able to
[48:29] empower those that do run heavy
[48:30] equipment as well. So there's
[48:32] potential opportunity when we have a
[48:33] statewide program statewide effort on
[48:35] some of these things. So I I view those
[48:38] as great suggestion and with great
[48:41] opportunities that we could have to
[48:42] partner with the program borrowing of
[48:44] equipment.
[48:45] >> Well Scott, maybe that's a stipulation
[48:46] you want to look into including in
[48:48] future equipment grants for like RTP or
[48:51] over when we're purchasing this
[48:52] equipment for counties or federal
[48:54] partners. Maybe we can include that in
[48:56] the contract language that they provide
[48:58] assistance to our trail group.
[48:59] Just thought.
[49:03] » Maybe by a assistant to the trail crew
[49:06] in the contract it says we since we
[49:09] put a very large amount of money towards
[49:11] this
[49:12] we we can use it when it's not being
[49:15] used by your program.
[49:18] >> There is a
[49:19] an asset
[49:21] rules.
[49:22] >> There's an asset rule but it's not
[49:24] specific that links to the trail crew.
[49:26] >> But [laughter] that's a great great
[49:27] idea.
[49:28] >> But it does say that it's state
[49:29] property.
[49:30] >> Yeah.
[49:31] >> No, it's for asset for 10 years or
[49:33] longer. Yeah, but that's the stipulation
[49:35] that we have in there for equipment
[49:37] currently.
[49:39] >> Could be a good thing to add though for
[49:40] sure.
[49:44] » Okay. Thank you everybody. Any any other
[49:47] questions or comments from the council?
[49:49] [clears throat]
[49:59] » So,
[50:00] what I'm what I'm hearing is there's
[50:02] concerns there's a few things concerns
[50:05] that we make sure that this is going for
[50:07] motorized projects.
[50:09] Um we want to make sure that we're
[50:10] collaborating with
[50:12] uh the local communities and those that
[50:14] already have trail equipment
[50:16] um with these uh operators.
[50:20] And then it sounds like dollar for
[50:22] dollar the trail crew is recommending
[50:25] this change
[50:27] um
[50:28] to get the most out of the money.
[50:30] Um
[50:31] any other consensus thoughts or any
[50:34] other
[50:35] um
[50:37] anything that I'm missing here?
[50:47] Any advice that council members want to
[50:50] provide outside of what we've discussed?
[50:56] » This is Brody. The only thing I would
[50:58] say is
[50:59] be willing to you know if you if you go
[51:02] the route of the the the regional crews
[51:05] like you know
[51:06] then if after a year or two and you're
[51:09] finding that it's just really not
[51:11] working be open to the idea of a
[51:13] centralized crew.
[51:14] Uh don't lock yourself into to one or
[51:17] the other
[51:18] um
[51:19] until you see how Give it a year or two
[51:20] to see how it works.
[51:23] >> Thank you.
[51:24] >> Yeah, it's a good idea.
[51:25] >> Pilot program.
[51:31] » Yeah, I guess I guess if I had to say I
[51:33] mean I can see both sides. I do like the
[51:36] idea of
[51:38] making full-time positions
[51:40] uh
[51:41] year-round
[51:43] as well as keeping them in the regions.
[51:45] It's really hard to find somebody that
[51:47] will travel
[51:49] um especially on a state wage.
[51:51] So,
[51:52] um
[51:53] I I'm I'm leaning to going the direction
[51:56] that has been proposed today.
[52:02] Any Anybody else?
[52:08] » So, are each one of these crews going to
[52:11] be the same size? I would think that
[52:13] where you have the biggest demand, you
[52:14] might need a bigger crew. I don't know.
[52:17] Uh
[52:18] and I don't know the size of these crews
[52:20] for sure, but
[52:22] uh if somebody's in running a bulldozer
[52:24] or a a trail cat and a mini ex, uh do
[52:27] you need How many people do you need to
[52:28] run a mini ex? One person and maybe one
[52:31] watching? I don't know. Uh What about a
[52:33] trail cat? You need maybe somebody to
[52:35] watch and somebody to run it. So, if we
[52:37] have a trail crew that's has four people
[52:39] with one piece of equipment,
[52:42] do we need all four people there?
[52:45] » Yeah, so our our crews would remain the
[52:47] same size. So, our crews currently are six
[52:51] uh made up of six people.
[52:53] Um and so, yeah, that the idea would be
[52:56] when that supervisor would step away for
[52:58] heavy equipment projects, they would be
[52:59] taking one crew member
[53:01] um to do either the brush work or the
[53:03] finish work um behind the machine. Um
[53:06] and then the rest of the four would be
[53:08] continuing to do hand crew work on other
[53:11] projects.
[53:12] >> Yeah, essentially doubling their
[53:14] capacity in capacity from just a project
[53:16] standpoint. So, instead of doing one
[53:17] project with five or six people, now we
[53:19] can do two projects with two here and
[53:23] three here. So, instead of having two
[53:25] full-time employees running all over the
[53:27] state,
[53:28] we're going to keep what we currently
[53:30] have, elevate four of them to full-time
[53:33] where they would be basically that that
[53:36] uh
[53:36] break off. It could either be two people
[53:39] or maybe even could be four, like you
[53:41] say, Scott, depending on the complexity
[53:42] and the needs of the of the project.
[53:44] Maybe it is two machines and four people
[53:45] and they all team up on it. That would
[53:47] be something they would have to sort of
[53:48] coordinate and decide on a case-by-case
[53:50] basis, but this I think would That
[53:53] That's probably the strongest point for
[53:55] this is just that capacity. Instead of
[53:57] having two people traveling everywhere,
[53:59] we got four able to cover the whole
[54:01] state and less travel.
[54:04] >> Well, my thinking is I'm going to have
[54:05] to leave this with Mike and Wade. And
[54:08] Jason, you guys to make that decision
[54:10] cuz I right now I can't tell you what I
[54:13] want done. I want it to be the most
[54:15] efficient way. You people are in that
[54:18] position. You've worked there. You see
[54:20] what's going on.
[54:21] I'm going to leave it to you to make
[54:23] that decision. And if it's a bad
[54:25] decision, maybe in a year or so we'll
[54:27] see, "Hey, we That was a bad decision.
[54:29] Let's change it."
[54:31] >> We thank you very much for that for what
[54:33] I'm what I'm gathering is is that trust,
[54:35] Scott, and also just, you know, in
[54:37] general to the council. Um I think this is a
[54:40] great launching point for our
[54:42] communication from now on to to help
[54:44] understand the trail crew program
[54:45] operations. I mean, this isn't just a
[54:46] one-off meeting and disappear. And I
[54:48] like that this is a
[54:50] you know, a new branch for us to be able
[54:51] to communicate with you all and update
[54:52] you in the spirit of kind of always
[54:54] improving like Jason's saying and our
[54:56] division kind of has that value. So,
[54:59] uh but yeah, thanks thanks for that that
[55:00] trust. And then I look forward to no
[55:02] matter what happens uh
[55:04] further communication and and better
[55:05] understanding.
[55:07] >> And And thank you for your questions. I really appreciate the questions. Um
[55:10] that's why
[55:11] you know,
[55:12] 4 years ago
[55:13] this would have probably just been
[55:14] something we would just gone ahead and
[55:15] done assuming that the advisory council
[55:18] wasn't interested in providing or didn't
[55:19] have questions. So, so in in another
[55:23] stride effort toward, you know,
[55:25] higher level of of fiscal transparency
[55:28] with this council and and
[55:30] leveraging the interest that you do
[55:31] have, really just want to say thank you.
[55:33] Especially uh Dean and and Lacey,
[55:35] appreciate you being uh the new members
[55:37] being willing to to jump into this and
[55:39] uh appreciate your your time.
[55:42] » And to that point, too, I I think we
[55:44] will expect some updates in our future
[55:48] meetings.
[55:49] Um and hopefully we can have a little
[55:52] bit of time set aside for Mike, um
[55:56] you or Mike to come and give us just a quick update and and
[56:01] keep us in the know.
[56:03] >> And we just definitely a part of the
[56:05] week that we look forward to and you you
[56:06] know, no matter what choices you're we
[56:08] make is you're on the journey with us.
[56:10] That's the way we look at it.
[56:11] So, thank you.
[56:15] » Okay, any anything else from any of the
[56:17] council members?
[56:22] » I like some of the changes I'm seeing in
[56:25] the spreadsheets and some of the other
[56:27] issues that we've had, but I'm assuming
[56:30] that's going to be another discussion.
[56:33] >> What was that?
[56:34] >> Sorry, can you repeat that?
[56:38] » Are you asking me what I said?
[56:40] >> Yeah.
[56:42] >> We didn't hear you.
[56:43] >> Yeah, we didn't hear you.
[56:43] >> He heard spreadsheets and then not much
[56:46] else there. Yeah, I didn't quite pick up
[56:47] on it. If you could repeat it.
[56:48] >> Updated grant spreadsheets. He
[56:50] appreciates what he's seeing and he
[56:53] assumes that that's going to be a point
[56:54] of discussion at our next meeting.
[56:56] >> Yeah, absolutely. And along with some
[56:58] other things. I know we've talked about
[56:59] wildfire and you know, Nicole, to your
[57:01] point, which is which is really
[57:03] forefront of my mind, yes, there are
[57:05] probably some things we can figure out
[57:06] to do in the next fiscal year, but
[57:09] likely we will not know the full extent
[57:11] of what's needed out there on the trails
[57:13] until the year after. So, there may be a
[57:15] discussion, too, of do we want to commit
[57:17] all of our funds this year or do we want
[57:18] to hold some of them back until we know
[57:21] a little bit better picture on on what
[57:23] impacts have been out there from
[57:24] wildfire.
[57:26] >> And Wade and myself have been
[57:27] discussing, um just kind of based off
[57:29] what's been prompted, um I believe by
[57:32] was it legislative Albright?
[57:34] >> Well, yeah, Representative Albright and Commissioner Pearson in Beaver
[57:37] County. They're they're very concerned,
[57:39] rightly so, about their economy in
[57:41] Beaver County. Their outdoor recreation
[57:43] scene is decimated. You know, all of
[57:46] those trails up there, the ski resort,
[57:48] um,
[57:49] you know, they still have the west side,
[57:50] which is open and and ready for
[57:52] business, but the problem is that most
[57:54] people are thinking, "Well, Beaver
[57:55] County isn't you know, isn't open for
[57:57] business when it comes to recreation."
[57:58] So, there's some messaging. There's also
[58:00] some grant opportunities from a tourism
[58:02] the the tourism segment of the the over
[58:04] grant, um, that we think will help those
[58:06] communities.
[58:07] >> And we're going to actually prioritize,
[58:10] that's what Wade and myself were talking
[58:11] about is actually making sure that if
[58:14] the advisory council agrees that we want
[58:15] to prioritize projects that are taking
[58:17] place in counties that have been
[58:18] affected by fires. So, it's actually
[58:20] something that we've been adding into
[58:21] the application.
[58:23] So,
[58:24] just an FYI.
[58:24] >> Thank you for doing that cuz we we
[58:26] really during that like the Silver King
[58:29] fire, we really
[58:31] I've tried [snorts] to focus on recovery
[58:33] for the trails, but also for that
[58:36] county. So, thank you for doing that.
[58:39] >> Yeah.
[58:42] » Okay, do we have Do you need anything
[58:44] else from us from the council moving
[58:46] forward, Jason?
[58:48] >> Um,
[58:49] >> Rachel has an announcement.
[58:50] >> Um,
[58:51] the answer to that question, no, not at
[58:53] this time, but, uh,
[58:55] >> Yeah, um, just an announcement. So, as
[58:58] most of you know, you guys have seen
[58:59] emails from me kind of throughout the
[59:00] couple past couple days. The OHR
[59:03] recreation grant opens tomorrow as well
[59:05] as the outdoor recreation mitigation grant and the outdoor
[59:10] recreation infrastructure grant.
[59:13] >> And infrastructure?
[59:14] >> The outdoor recreation mitigation grant
[59:16] is for search and rescue plus some
[59:20] other,
[59:21] um, infrastructure that has been damaged
[59:24] in a given rural community because of
[59:27] heavy visitation. So,
[59:29] just so you know and pass that around,
[59:31] please.
[59:33] >> Okay.
[59:34] Thank you.
[59:36] All right. Thanks everybody for taking
[59:38] the time tonight. I know we went a
[59:39] little bit longer.
[59:41] Um we appreciate your input and uh at
[59:44] this time we'll accept a motion for
[59:47] adjournment.
[59:50] » This is Brody. I would like to make a
[59:51] motion that we conclude the meeting.
[59:55] » I'll second it. This is Mike.
[59:58] >> Okay.
[1:00:00] Thanks everybody. Meeting is adjourned.
[1:00:02] >> Appreciate y'all.
[1:00:03] >> Thank you.
[1:00:04] all. Thank you.