[0:06] You guys are so well behaved.

[0:09] Quiet down before our meeting starts at

[0:11] 8:30.

[0:16] » I thought maybe I was late this morning

[0:17] because everyone was here on time. So,

[0:20] >> like some friendly chitchat.

[0:32] » [clears throat]

[0:33] >> depending on which you look at it. So, um Paul is our is recording. He's our

[0:40] AV assistant today. So, Paul, we'll go

[0:43] ahead and start recording if you can.

[0:46] >> Thank you. Recording has started.

[0:50] >> All right. Thanks, Paul. I'm Elisa

[0:52] Richards, chairperson for the Utah

[0:54] Geological Survey Board, and I'd like to

[0:55] call this meeting for the Utah

[0:57] Geological Survey Board to order. It is

[0:59] now 8:30 a.m. on August 12, 2026. This

[1:04] meeting is held [clears throat] both in

[1:06] person and virtually with Google Meet in

[1:08] compliance with Utah's open meeting

[1:10] laws. This meeting is being recorded in

[1:12] its entirety. The recording is

[1:13] classified as a public record. And the

[1:16] following board members are in

[1:17] attendance. Elisa Richards, Ken Fleck,

[1:20] Becky Hammond, Neil Bert, Riley

[1:21] Ringerhoff, Michael Hansen, Rich Gordon,

[1:24] and Andy Bettingfield from

[1:27] zero board members are absent. That's

[1:29] great. The following individuals

[1:31] representing the UGS geological survey

[1:33] and the Department of Natural Resources

[1:35] are in attendance. Darling Battalion,

[1:37] Stephan Herby, W Seymour, Cheryl Wing,

[1:40] Mike Vanderberg. I know we had a couple

[1:42] more come in, but I think you're going

[1:43] to introduce us introduce them to new

[1:46] stuff. I know that's exciting. We're

[1:48] always excited to meet new staff. And

[1:50] then do we have any other guests?

[1:54] >> My name is Lacy.

[1:56] >> That's right. Okay. Welcome, Lacy. And

[2:00] um we welcome all visitors and

[2:01] interested persons. As a courtesy to

[2:03] everyone participating in this meeting,

[2:05] at this time we ask for all cell phones,

[2:07] pagers, and other electronic devices to

[2:10] be turned off or um changed to silent

[2:12] mode. Board motions and votes will be

[2:14] reflected in the minutes and recorded by

[2:16] individual board member. And let's now

[2:18] proceed with the agenda.

[2:20] >> Thank you, Madam Chair.

[2:24] If we could get our slides to change.

[2:34] Now what?

[2:39] Sorry. Excuse me. My presentation is

[2:41] being

[2:44] [snorts]

[2:47] okay. Sorry about the delay. First item

[2:51] is action items for the Okay. I um I'd

[2:57] like to uh call a motion to approve the

[3:00] minutes from the April 15 26 uh board

[3:03] meeting. Who would like to formally

[3:08] first? And who will send somebody

[3:09] second? Okay, first and second. Thank

[3:11] you. All those in favor of approving the

[3:14] minutes from the UGS board meeting April

[3:16] 15, 2026, say I.

[3:19] >> I. Any opposed say no.

[3:22] >> All right. It's a unanimous decision

[3:24] that the UGS board meeting minutes from

[3:25] April 15, 2026 have been approved.

[3:29] [clears throat]

[3:32] Next item is approval of projects.

[3:37] >> All right. Um,

[3:40] oh, okay, there we go. There's our And

[3:42] we've been we've been seeing a lot of

[3:43] those come across our desk. This is

[3:44] great. I would also like to have a

[3:46] formal approval of all of the projects

[3:48] that we have reviewed since our April uh

[3:51] board meeting. All of those uh I'd like

[3:54] to have a motion to approve those.

[3:56] >> So moved.

[3:56] Ken and a second.

[3:58] >> I second.

[3:59] >> Becky, thank you. Um let's go ahead and

[4:03] have a vote. All of those who formally

[4:05] approve the contract proposals from the

[4:07] April meeting say I.

[4:10] >> I. Any oppose? Say no.

[4:13] Those all of the contract proposals

[4:15] since our April board meeting have been

[4:18] unanimously approved.

[4:20] And we're off. Thank you, chair. this

[4:24] just watching these totals here. It's

[4:26] quite a significant amount of potential

[4:29] new income um to UGS and new project

[4:33] work. Um some of these are quite large.

[4:36] This multi-state

[4:38] um

[4:40] uh geothermal. So, which kind of leads

[4:44] to our next agenda topic, which is

[4:48] opportunity to introduce a couple of our

[4:50] new staff members. So um looking at our

[4:54] project workload um particularly in the

[4:57] energy and minerals group and the

[4:58] groundwater and wetlands group we were

[5:02] very thoughtful um but have made the

[5:04] decision to hire some additional

[5:07] temporary staff. These are you know

[5:09] minimum probably couple year uh roles

[5:12] for them. So if I can take a moment I'd

[5:15] like to introduce Eton. So Eton has just

[5:18] joined our energy and minerals team.

[5:20] who's going to be working with Steph

[5:22] Mills.

[5:23] >> Um

[5:25] hang out back here. Yeah. So, um on the

[5:28] intrusive face map, do you want to just

[5:29] introduce yourself and a little bit

[5:31] about your background?

[5:32] >> Yeah. Uh so, I just graduated from

[5:34] University of Arizona where I did my

[5:37] dissertation on order closets in the

[5:39] Paradox Basin, not too far from here. Um

[5:43] I have a little bit of experience in

[5:45] industry as well working for lithium

[5:47] America's and Exxon Mobile

[5:51] short stints but uh I'm here to work

[5:53] with stiff mills and the rest of the

[5:56] energy and minerals group on the

[5:58] intrusive base map project and then help

[6:00] out a little bit with the uh BHP expport

[6:03] project as well. So put my education to

[6:06] work see.

[6:09] >> Yeah. So, welcome. And you started

[6:11] couple three weeks ago.

[6:13] >> End of June.

[6:14] Okay. So, a month. Great.

[6:17] Yeah. Really happy to have a on board.

[6:19] And then Stephen H. I

[6:22] >> Hello. Hello. I'm Stephen. I'm a Utah

[6:24] native here. Um just joined in the as

[6:27] the wetlands group. I'm working on a

[6:29] project right now with just stern where

[6:31] we're looking at the different laws that

[6:32] protect wetlands throughout the state as

[6:35] well as um developing more monitoring

[6:37] protocols with wetlands here in the

[6:40] state. Um my background um I have a

[6:42] master's degree in environmental science

[6:44] where I worked with the division of air

[6:46] quality actually um passing some some

[6:50] rules with them. Um, and then I've also

[6:53] worked as an environmental consultant

[6:54] with wetlands.

[6:58] » To be here.

[6:59] >> Yeah, thank you. Really happy to have

[7:01] you on board too as well. So, this was

[7:04] an example where I think we were looking

[7:06] for someone at kind of a lower level and

[7:08] were able to hire in somebody with more

[7:10] expertise and experience and so really

[7:13] happy to have both of you guys on board.

[7:15] So, welcome to UGS. And is this a good

[7:18] time maybe to just go around and do

[7:20] introductions? We do have a couple new

[7:22] people. We're still waiting for Brian to

[7:24] join us. Um, actually, we do have one

[7:27] more, I think. Well, we have a couple

[7:29] more staff news things, but maybe we'll

[7:31] just take a minute and do introductions.

[7:34] >> Sure. Um, or we can wait till Brian gets

[7:37] here. Is Brian gonna make it?

[7:38] >> No, he is. Sorry. Did you see my text

[7:40] message?

[7:41] >> I'm sorry. What?

[7:41] >> Did you see my text?

[7:42] >> No.

[7:43] >> Okay. So, he he did text me saying he

[7:45] had a family conflict this morning. So,

[7:47] but he will be here just a little bit

[7:49] later.

[7:49] >> A little bit later. So, we'll just move

[7:51] things around in our agenda.

[7:53] >> Okay. I was trying to text you telling

[7:54] you I was on the way and that Brian was

[7:56] on the way and sorry, we didn't

[7:58] >> I was probably working on setting up and

[8:01] chatting here. Okay, that's fine. So,

[8:03] we'll maybe we'll wait till Brian gets

[8:04] here and then we'll do introductions.

[8:06] I'll just keep going with staff news.

[8:08] Um, do you guys remember Martha Hayden?

[8:11] One of our longest, if not one of our

[8:14] longest serving

[8:17] members. Do you want to say a few words

[8:19] about Martha?

[8:20] >> You know Martha has again she had 43

[8:23] total years of state service. Uh she

[8:26] came to us when the paleo program was

[8:28] incorporated into UGS. Before that she

[8:31] was with doing paleo stuff but with

[8:34] state history. Um her time here she has

[8:37] done she's basically been the heart of

[8:39] the paleo program. She's built a

[8:41] one-of-a-kind paleo site and resource

[8:44] database for the whole state that is

[8:46] used by Settla, BLM, private folks all

[8:50] over the state to manage these

[8:51] resources. She also

[8:54] was one of the instigators and then main

[8:56] contributors to Utah Friends of

[8:58] Paleontology. That's a really active

[9:00] volunteer group. They've done all kinds

[9:02] of stuff for paleo in the state. She she

[9:06] was involved in that for I think close

[9:08] to 40 years.

[9:10] Um yeah, so she finally retired. Um we

[9:15] wish her well in her retirement, but

[9:17] yeah, it's it's going to be kind of hard

[9:18] to replace this. She's left us those

[9:21] important legacy pieces of a really

[9:23] strong Utah paleontology and then this

[9:25] one-of-a-kind data set of paleo sites in

[9:28] Utah. Um, so in the future, and I'm not

[9:31] sure if you have a slide on this, but we

[9:33] actually have a Paleo job open that has

[9:35] just closed that we'll do a hiring

[9:37] process for because she is the first of

[9:39] the Paleo folks who's going to retire

[9:42] over the next couple years. So, we'll do

[9:43] some rolling openings to replace those

[9:46] folks.

[9:47] >> Yeah, I don't really have a slide for

[9:48] this. So, um, the Paleo Group and Stefan

[9:52] have really kind of built out a

[9:53] succession roadmap. Um because coming on

[9:57] the heels of Martha retirement, Don

[9:59] DeLau, our assistant state

[10:01] paleontologist, is also planning on

[10:03] retiring at the end of the year and he

[10:06] and Jim Kirkland are like, you know, big

[10:08] brother, little brother. And so it's

[10:11] going to be tough to see Don leave. Um,

[10:15] and so what the paleo team is looking

[10:17] for is in replacing Martha, we're really

[10:20] looking for that next level of, you

[10:23] know, a paleontology,

[10:25] you know, kind of leader, co-lead for

[10:27] the state. And that job position has

[10:30] been opened and I think just closed,

[10:33] >> recently closed. We have 76 or 78. We've

[10:36] got a bunch of strong applicants. We'll

[10:38] go through a multi-stage hiring process.

[10:42] We'll hope to make a decision probably

[10:44] early or middle of September and then

[10:46] see when we can get somebody in the

[10:47] door. Um, we're being kind of

[10:49] open-minded in terms of skill sets.

[10:51] There are some things that we certainly

[10:52] need like the ability to prep fos cells

[10:54] and do field work, but we're really

[10:56] trying to find the right person for the

[10:58] next couple decades in the program and

[11:00] start that turnover process.

[11:03] So, if you're a paleontologist out there

[11:05] in the world and you see this job

[11:06] opening here in Utah, it's really a kind

[11:09] of a worldass opportunity to come work

[11:11] for a state geological survey that has

[11:13] incredible paleontology resources and

[11:16] Jim and Don have really laid and Martha

[11:19] really have really laid the foundation

[11:23] um for who comes next in this role. It's

[11:25] a It's a great opportunity and

[11:27] paleontology for me personally as

[11:29] director is something that I think we

[11:31] should really be leaning into. I I think

[11:34] we could do more by our paleontology

[11:36] resources in Utah. So,

[11:39] um so yeah, we said farewell to Martha.

[11:42] She had a heck of a retirement party,

[11:44] too. She has a

[11:45] >> She did. Yeah, she has a lot of

[11:46] >> She has a big network out there.

[11:48] >> She is well loved. Yes,

[11:50] >> she was. Um service awards. We have two

[11:54] service awards to celebrate. Uh well

[11:57] actually we have a number of service

[11:58] awards to celebrate. Um Star Soul I know

[12:02] one of our uh executive assistant um who

[12:08] along with Cheryl just carries a huge

[12:10] load for UGS with almost 90 people. We

[12:14] have a lot of administrative

[12:15] responsibilities and you know they do so

[12:19] much for us. Um, Star's been here for,

[12:22] it's hard to believe, but for 20 years.

[12:24] Um, Cheryl's got her beat by what, a

[12:27] couple, eight,

[12:29] >> eight, almost 20 years.

[12:31] >> Oh my gosh. So, we're really lucky to

[12:34] have that kind of institutional

[12:35] knowledge and longevity for us. Um, she

[12:39] helps our team out every day. And then

[12:41] Steph Carney, um, our lead editor, uh,

[12:44] who combs through all of our

[12:46] publications and survey notes, articles,

[12:49] um, and does a great job for us. She's

[12:51] written our style guide. Um, she takes

[12:54] great care of all of our publications.

[12:58] Some five-year service awards. Uh,

[13:00] Jackson Smith is part of our geologic

[13:03] information and outreach group. He for a

[13:06] long time has been focused on education.

[13:09] um particularly earth science week and

[13:12] that kind of thing. We've asked our GIO

[13:14] team to do more in terms of public

[13:17] outreach. So he's really helped us move

[13:19] into conference planning um outreach for

[13:23] our geologic hazards as we publish maps

[13:25] and really need to connect with local

[13:27] communities. So he's been kind of a

[13:29] go-to guy for me in those efforts as

[13:32] well and I really appreciate him. He's a

[13:34] great communicator. Um Troy Duncan is um

[13:38] a geo tech I believe um in our hazards

[13:43] group and has also really been expanding

[13:46] her capabilities. She's a drone pilot

[13:48] now. She's helping with landslide stuff.

[13:51] She recently pitched a proposal to us

[13:53] and did a great job. She's kind of

[13:54] building the budget um for that. Um so

[13:58] she's been here for five years. And then

[13:59] Kayla Smith is in our energy and

[14:01] minerals group. Mike, do you want to say

[14:03] a word about what Kayla's working on?

[14:06] uh she's slotted under our geothermal

[14:09] geopysics team. So does a lot of

[14:12] geoysics fieldwork, gravity, TN mg

[14:17] um and then also takes that data, does a

[14:20] lot of the processing and

[14:22] interpretation.

[14:23] Uh she's a drone pilot, does a lot of

[14:26] drone work, drone based LAR,

[14:32] Jess.

[14:37] » Thank you.

[14:39] And then 10 years for Jen Miller, our

[14:42] lead graphics designer and publications

[14:45] manager, um who again is an integral

[14:48] asset for everything that goes out the

[14:51] door. She she makes it look good. Her

[14:53] team makes it look good. Uh she does our

[14:56] calendar

[14:58] um survey notes. We're working on an

[15:00] annual report. So um again, just a huge

[15:05] integral part of our work. We talk a lot

[15:08] about the science that we do. We often

[15:10] don't talk enough about the people who

[15:13] are kind of behind the scenes um making

[15:15] that science accessible to everybody

[15:18] that we reach. So appreciate

[15:22] And then 15 years for two of our

[15:24] geoccientists, Adam Hiscocock. Adam

[15:26] Hiscocock is in our geological hazards

[15:28] group. He is one of our lead earthquake

[15:31] scientists. Um both field and in terms

[15:34] of publication, he supported the Utah

[15:36] Seismic Safety Commission kind of as the

[15:38] commission secretary. He's recently

[15:40] stepped into a role with the Utah

[15:43] Earthquake Engineering Research

[15:45] Institute. Again, as a secretary, he's

[15:47] pretty connected out there. Um great

[15:49] field geologist. we recently promoted

[15:51] him to a senior geologist. Um, and I

[15:55] think he's on a Colorado River trip

[15:57] right now. And then Christian Hardwick,

[16:00] who's been leading, you know, leader in

[16:02] our energy and minerals team. He's

[16:04] really leading out on our geohysical, I

[16:06] mean our geothermal work. Um,

[16:09] anything else you want to add about

[16:10] Christian? Um Christian has a huge

[16:14] breadth of knowledge when it comes to

[16:16] geophysics, surface geophysical

[16:18] techniques. He many of those 15 years he

[16:23] was kind of working behind the scenes in

[16:24] the geothermal world before geothermal

[16:27] exploded the last few years.

[16:28] [clears throat]

[16:29] And a lot of that foundational work is

[16:32] being used today by geothermal companies

[16:35] in Utah. Like Furbo is drilling in the

[16:38] Black Rock Desert based on work that

[16:40] Christian did 10 years ago. Um and so

[16:44] it's nice to see him kind of more

[16:46] elevated now and he's been extremely

[16:50] successful in getting very large DOE

[16:54] funded projects. He was instrumental in

[16:56] us getting the very large geothermal

[16:58] building block from the legislature. So

[17:02] yeah, he's really [clears throat]

[17:04] stepped up and it's fun to see him

[17:06] finally get some recognition for all the

[17:08] work he's done many years.

[17:10] >> Yeah, geothermal is having a moment kind

[17:13] of like critical minerals. So um

[17:16] [clears throat]

[17:16] and and again you know Christian's uh

[17:20] project workload has become

[17:23] um robust enough that we're additionally

[17:26] looking to hire someone to support him

[17:29] in that role as well. So

[17:37] » geothermal geopysics

[17:40] person hopefully soon

[17:45] So again, you know, these new hires that

[17:47] we've made are really intentional. You

[17:50] know, we've looked at our staff

[17:52] bandwidth. We've looked at the amount of

[17:54] grant funding that has come in to be

[17:57] able to execute that work. We're really

[17:59] careful about hiring and that work, you

[18:02] know, has long legs. Those, you know,

[18:04] budget numbers are pushing out two to

[18:06] three years. And we really do want to be

[18:08] intentional about hiring. So, you know,

[18:10] the addition of Stephen of Eton of the

[18:14] geothermal project geologist

[18:16] um and our our paleontology replacement,

[18:19] you know, have been pretty well thought

[18:21] out here. But, um we're also excited to

[18:24] add to our team geothermal the

[18:26] geothermal work that is out there, the

[18:28] minerals work that is out there, the

[18:30] groundwater and wetlands work that is

[18:32] out there. You know, that is what the

[18:33] state is asking from us and the funding

[18:36] is out there. So, let's do the good

[18:38] science and bring the people in to to

[18:41] get it done.

[18:43] Uh, next in my slide deck was um

[18:47] welcoming Brian Summers, the executive

[18:49] director of the Utah Mining Association.

[18:51] So, he'll be here. He's just running

[18:53] late. So, if you don't mind, should I

[18:56] just continue with [laughter] the

[18:58] director's report?

[18:59] >> Yes.

[19:00] >> Thank you. So, we'll come back to that

[19:02] when I arise and we'll do introductions

[19:05] when it gets here, too. Okay. So, I'll

[19:07] just

[19:08] >> Have you hired the uh the new mapping?

[19:12] >> He did. Yeah.

[19:12] >> Oh, that's right.

[19:13] >> Yeah. He doesn't. So, we hired uh David

[19:16] Kenova. It was a lengthy process, very

[19:19] competitive. Um he's he'll be joining us

[19:21] after completing his PhD.

[19:24] Uh he's he's got mapping skills at

[19:28] various scales, regional uh

[19:31] cross-sections,

[19:33] strategraphy. He's an interesting

[19:35] candidate. Um he's a he's a native of

[19:38] the inner mountain west. Went to Fort

[19:40] Lewis College I think initially and then

[19:43] has did a master's did a masters and

[19:46] then he's completing a PhD in kind of

[19:48] salt tectonic stuff

[19:50] >> in Spain.

[19:51] Yeah.

[19:52] >> He'll be joining us in early October.

[19:56] And his the goal his focal his focus

[19:58] area will be the Utah's west desert

[20:00] basically. And the point of getting him

[20:03] here now is to overlap with Don Clark

[20:06] who will be retiring in the future.

[20:09] >> Yes. So that big big scale mapping,

[20:11] right? So one of the things I was really

[20:14] intrigued about with David Kenova as a

[20:17] potential hireer is he spent some time

[20:19] as a USGS map editor. Is that his role?

[20:23] >> Mappings and publication skills are just

[20:27] incredible. Like his maps are beautiful

[20:29] products. like he understands that and I

[20:32] think having him come into our mapping

[20:34] and even our GIS team may level us up a

[20:37] bit right in terms of what we do and and

[20:40] what we're able to produce. So it'll be

[20:41] exciting to see I think he's going to

[20:43] integrate into our mapping team really

[20:45] well.

[20:49] » Speaking of publications then um let's

[20:54] go through them because it's been a busy

[20:56] time since we last met. uh survey notes

[20:59] came out recently and we actually are

[21:02] working on our next issue of survey

[21:04] notes right now. That will be the last

[21:07] uh September issue of survey notes I

[21:10] think that we'll do. We're going to

[21:12] start reducing the number of survey

[21:14] notes and putting out an annual report

[21:16] in December I believe is our target. And

[21:20] that's really a document that we can tee

[21:22] up for the legislature um to kind of

[21:26] showcase what UGS has been working on

[21:28] through the year and help the

[21:30] legislature understand our role and how

[21:33] we put the money that they give us to

[21:35] use. Uh statewide inventory of Utah's

[21:39] significant mine waste features. So this

[21:42] was a large compilation took kind of a

[21:45] super team of GIS

[21:48] um folks as well as Claire Decker to put

[21:50] together all of the mind waste features.

[21:53] Mike, is that like a single map with a

[21:55] supporting document?

[21:58] So that's um that's basically a GIS

[22:01] compilation of all the we use

[22:03] significant mine waste features in the

[22:04] state and we paired that with as much um

[22:07] mineral occurrence data that we have so

[22:10] that we can there's a lot of disclaimer

[22:12] language in the report but so that we

[22:14] can provide a very high level um

[22:17] inventory of where mine waste is and

[22:19] what could potentially be in it for

[22:21] people who are interested in it for a

[22:23] whole variety of reasons. So Claire did

[22:25] a great job on this. I think this will

[22:27] be one of our one of the foundational

[22:29] data sets that we kind of use and that

[22:31] we get asked for quite a lot. So, we're

[22:33] very excited to have more fun.

[22:36] >> We will be very interested.

[22:37] >> Yeah. Okay. I [laughter] didn't even see

[22:39] that. I'm looking at the back of my head

[22:41] most of the time.

[22:44] » Awesome. A pilot study to eval to

[22:47] evaluate measurement of evapo

[22:49] transformation in fragmite stand

[22:52] farmington bay. So if you follow the

[22:54] great salt lake news, eggies is an

[22:58] invasive reed. It has taken over tens of

[23:02] thousands of acres probably along the

[23:05] edge of the great salt lake and it

[23:06] consumes a great deal of water. And so

[23:10] one of the issues with trying to get

[23:12] water to the Great Salt Lake is that

[23:13] these stands of fragmitees are in the

[23:15] way. Um, and so, uh, our our groundwater

[23:20] wetlands teams have been installing

[23:22] these really cool flux towers. They're

[23:25] called Eddie co-variance towers. This is

[23:28] something that Paul Inc. Brandt has been

[23:29] leading out. They're super technical.

[23:31] Um, there is a nationwide flux network

[23:34] that the data gets kind of shared out

[23:36] to. Um but installing one in a stand of

[23:39] fragmitees allowed them to try to get a

[23:42] better handle on the actual

[23:44] evapotranspiration rate of fragmitees

[23:47] which is tied to how much water it

[23:49] actually consumes. Um it's a managing

[23:52] fragmitees and treating it has been a

[23:55] inter agency effort. It's forestry fire

[23:58] and state lands. It's wildlife

[24:00] resources. It's our information on the

[24:02] data side. And so this data really

[24:05] matters to the uh efforts to treat and

[24:09] eradicate fragmitees. Um the TLDDR

[24:13] version of this is it does use less

[24:17] water than we thought. We thought it

[24:18] used four times the amount of water as

[24:21] maybe a more typical wetland vegetation.

[24:24] It's more probably in the range of two

[24:26] to three times as much water. Um but

[24:30] that's still a lot. I think the actual

[24:32] data point was 36 inches a year of water

[24:36] that it consumes which if you look at

[24:38] how dense a stand of fragmitees is and

[24:40] there are photos of these stands in this

[24:42] report that's still a lot of water. So

[24:45] in my book uh for restoration of the

[24:47] great salt lake fragmitees is public

[24:49] enemy number one. Um and this study will

[24:53] go a long ways I think to try to help um

[24:56] manage it.

[24:58] And then here come the state map

[25:00] deliverables. Right. You want to kind of

[25:03] go through these Mills Junction. This

[25:05] was Emily's

[25:07] and Adam's map.

[25:10] >> Yeah. So, so we uh in the board the

[25:13] descriptive packet we I describe our

[25:16] this the full trench of deliverables

[25:18] basically that we

[25:19] >> we provided USGS at the end of June. We

[25:22] delivered on time for the third straight

[25:24] year. We published more of our maps than

[25:27] ever before. Uh we also included more

[25:29] digital data than ever before. Um so

[25:33] let's see. We started off with Mills

[25:34] Junction. That's in Tula Valley.

[25:36] Includes a bunch of the Great Salt Lake.

[25:38] It's basically all lustr deposits.

[25:41] There's one little piece of bedrock and

[25:42] smolder basin fill, but it's all lustr

[25:44] deposits from very, very young up

[25:46] through Bonavville age. Uh let's see,

[25:49] north part of Real Creek. This was a

[25:51] trainer quad for Keely. She did a great

[25:53] job on this. Uh this includes part of

[25:55] Castle Valley in the Sand Flats wreck

[25:58] area. Um it it actually is a nice map

[26:01] for hazard stuff going forward. This is

[26:03] a this is a well-loved and used area.

[26:06] This will help folks manage that area.

[26:08] Uh then we had a kind of a cleanup map

[26:11] on Santa Quinn. This was a piece of work

[26:14] that Adams had out there for a while. Um

[26:17] I'm a contributor on there as well. And

[26:19] then Ron Harris from BYU. It's a really

[26:22] cool map. Um complicated severe

[26:25] structure was fault stuff. Bonavville

[26:29] and some volcanics. Um Old Jetto. That's our first map for the Navajo

[26:35] Nation. So that's down just east of

[26:38] Monument Valley. This was we went down

[26:40] to them and asked what they wanted. We

[26:41] did this map to help them with water

[26:43] resources. That's uh Matthew's first map

[26:47] down there. We also have a we had a

[26:49] press release that just came out

[26:50] yesterday afternoon that shared with the

[26:53] USGS and the Navajo Nation about this

[26:55] map because it's unique. So kind of some

[26:57] national level press on that one.

[26:59] >> Are we going to see that on our channel?

[27:01] >> We are. Yeah, we'll talk about that. We

[27:02] we're basically going to do a field

[27:05] review of that map on that first day of

[27:06] the field trip. Um the next one, the

[27:10] geologic map of Bryce, that's another

[27:12] wonderful map. It'll it'll help folks

[27:14] manage the resources down there. It's

[27:16] already really popular. It's been like

[27:18] our most downloaded map and one of our

[27:20] most downloaded publications since it

[27:22] came out. It's got a great

[27:23] cross-section, great pictures, strap

[27:25] columns. It's a neat map.

[27:27] >> Geological hazards that were mapped as

[27:28] part of this that should really help the

[27:30] park managers as well. So,

[27:33] >> but a gorgeous map and that that also

[27:35] will build into a piece of work that we

[27:37] hope to complete in the next fiscal

[27:39] year, which is a revised geologic map of

[27:41] the whole park of Bryce.

[27:43] Um, geez. [clears throat] Wow. This is a

[27:47] stack.

[27:47] >> Yeah. Uh, this first one is a outside

[27:51] publication.

[27:53] Um,

[27:55] so was one of our

[27:57] was somebody a contributor on this from

[28:01] Um, so Christine and Scott are at USGS

[28:05] here in town water

[28:08] science center. Um, and the Great Salt

[28:11] Lake Solenity Advisory Committee, Andrew

[28:15] and Elliot participate on that.

[28:18] >> Sorry,

[28:18] >> I didn't realize this was in the middle

[28:19] state map. So,

[28:21] >> that's okay. Um, Woodland was another

[28:23] one. That's one of Lauren's quads. So

[28:26] now we have new mapping that covers

[28:28] basically the areas that are most likely

[28:30] to be developed in Summit County coming

[28:32] up. One of the adjoining quads has been

[28:35] consistently used by con consultants.

[28:37] The woodland quad's really cool. It's

[28:40] got kind of the tip out of the south

[28:41] flank fault that bounds the really neat

[28:45] structure, some cool strategraphy,

[28:47] volcanics. Warren did a great job. It

[28:49] also has that quad's really cool. It's

[28:51] got these what look like really old

[28:53] glacial deposits. of things that are uh

[28:56] pre kind of B lake age they're way up

[28:58] high we're working on some uh some folks

[29:01] from University of Minnesota trying to

[29:02] get those dated could be a cool story

[29:05] there summit quad uh that includes part

[29:08] of the Powan Valley and adjoining

[29:10] uplands that's a map that t that's been

[29:12] rolling around for a little while Tyler

[29:14] finally published

[29:16] let's see north Ogden that's another one

[29:18] that's been rolling around that's got

[29:20] some really complicated uh severe belt

[29:23] structures And then a bunch of

[29:25] Bonavville stuff, Wasach fault stuff and

[29:28] big liquefaction features too. So it'll

[29:31] be real important for hazard kind of

[29:33] mitigation stuff.

[29:36] >> Awesome. Could you remind me the term

[29:39] interim applied to all these? What does

[29:41] that

[29:42] >> So we Well, that actually builds into

[29:44] something else that we're working on in

[29:46] mapping. It's kind of revising how we

[29:48] publish or map the actual publication

[29:50] titles. We use interim. We've used that

[29:52] to say that this isn't final. We It has

[29:54] known issues that we didn't address yet.

[29:56] And sometimes those are outstanding lab

[29:58] work. Sometimes there's known problems

[30:01] that we haven't figured out yet. We

[30:03] don't feel that it's final. And that's

[30:04] why it's an OFR. We are looking at kind

[30:06] of changing this and going to more of a

[30:08] versioned map series. So if you look at

[30:10] the quality of these interim maps,

[30:12] they're every bit equivalent to our old

[30:14] final maps. That makes sense. So there's

[30:17] really no re, you know, we'll probably

[30:19] move into a mode where we're not doing

[30:20] as many open file maps in the future.

[30:22] We're doing a map series map that then

[30:24] gets versioned and updated as like lab

[30:27] data comes in or we figure out a given

[30:29] area.

[30:30] >> Okay. And the OFR that's like your first

[30:33] um draft.

[30:35] >> Yeah, it's the first draft.

[30:37] >> Okay.

[30:37] >> Yeah. But like I say, these these first

[30:41] drafts these days, these have all those

[30:42] are DM. So they all have full digital

[30:44] data. the quality of these products is

[30:47] it's in many times greater than what we

[30:49] were doing like 15 years ago for our

[30:51] final publications. So, it's time to

[30:53] it's an instance where we I think we

[30:55] need to adjust our publication series a

[30:57] little bit to fit what we're actually

[30:59] doing.

[31:00] >> Is there a timeline associated with

[31:02] that? So, you identify something as an

[31:04] OFR report. Are you trying to get it

[31:07] finalized within like five years, 10

[31:09] years?

[31:09] >> That's one that's one of the issues.

[31:11] >> Question.

[31:12] >> That's a great question. So for these

[31:14] for maps to meet our contract

[31:16] requirement, we just have to publish.

[31:18] They don't care whether it's an OFR, map

[31:20] series or whatever we want to call it.

[31:21] We just have to publish. So that leaves

[31:24] us in a position when we publish these

[31:26] things. It's hard to come back to them,

[31:28] right? It's hard to get money for it.

[31:29] Many of these OFRs need a small amount

[31:32] of work. They need like a few weeks of

[31:34] work. It's hard to get money for that.

[31:36] And thereby, it's also hard to plan for

[31:39] it. You know, it's hard to say, oh this

[31:41] year versus two years or five years or

[31:43] whatever.

[31:45] >> A lot of it comes to edge mapping too,

[31:46] right? Where you're trying

[31:48] [clears throat]

[31:49] >> that's one of the fundamental issues in

[31:50] here too. You know, does this make sense

[31:52] versus the

[31:55] >> but we are we are actively working on

[31:57] revising the publication

[32:00] s what what we call publications via map

[32:03] series or OFRs to account for this in

[32:05] the future. There's always a lot of maps

[32:13] » and these things are always works in

[32:14] progress. That's why I want to go to

[32:16] this idea of version maps. So it'll be

[32:19] version one, version two, version three.

[32:21] They're never really fully done. There's

[32:23] always things you can you can improve.

[32:25] So

[32:26] >> So do you know or even keep track of how

[32:30] this level of production of maps stacks

[32:32] up against other states? Yeah, I have an

[32:34] idea of that. Um, I mean that's that's a

[32:37] whole other topic. We're kind of in the

[32:39] top uh Colorado map really good about

[32:43] >> Yeah, we're in the top like four. We're

[32:45] in the top four or five in the country

[32:47] nationally in terms of map production

[32:49] map quality. Um,

[32:52] >> which is a that's a big deal because

[32:54] we're up against some organizations that

[32:56] are much larger than ours like

[32:57] California.

[33:03] » Okay. Well, perfect timing before we

[33:05] move to the next topic because Brian

[33:08] Summers has been able to join us. So,

[33:11] um, I thought we'd take a minute to

[33:14] introduce Brian and then we can do

[33:16] introductions maybe while we try to load

[33:20] your slides for you. Um, so why don't we

[33:26] start with you?

[33:27] >> Uh, hi everybody. I'm Brian Summers from

[33:29] the Pris Mining Association. So, I've

[33:32] worked with a few of you before, but I'm

[33:33] very happy to be here and I appreciate

[33:35] the invitation. Thanks for being

[33:37] flexible with my schedule, too. I had

[33:39] some extra dad duties this morning that

[33:41] I hadn't anticipated. So,

[33:45] >> absolutely fine.

[33:46] >> So, yeah, really glad you could join us.

[33:51] Uh Brian, I'm you know me, I'm Rich for

[33:55] go way back from the dog and board, but

[33:58] uh I'm now on the UGS board representing

[34:01] the [snorts] metals mineral industry.

[34:03] >> Awesome. [clears throat]

[34:05] >> And I'm Andy Bettingfield, um managing

[34:07] director of energy and minerals. Sibla

[34:10] has a non voting place on this board and

[34:12] so I fill that seat.

[34:15] >> I'm Ken Fleck. I'm a retired coal

[34:17] geologist formerly from Energy West

[34:20] Mining Company down in

[34:24] Price

[34:26] Drop. Yes,

[34:29] >> Mike Vandenberg here at UGS, head of the

[34:32] energy group

[34:35] at UGS. I am the finance manager.

[34:38] >> Elisa Richards, the board chair, the CEO

[34:41] of the National Energy Foundation.

[34:44] I'm Cheryl Wing. I'm with you, Jess. I'm

[34:45] the administrative assistant secretary.

[34:51] » I'm Neil Burke. I'm a hydro geologist.

[34:55] My role on the board is the groundwater

[34:57] section.

[34:59] >> I'm Becky Hammond and I'm a retired

[35:02] geologist

[35:04] and I represent scientific interests on

[35:07] the board.

[35:10] >> Michael Hansen. an engineering geologist

[35:13] works at

[35:14] civil and geotech engineering.

[35:18] >> And I'm Stephan Kirby. I'm the deputy

[35:20] director geological survey.

[35:22] >> Then

[35:24] I'm Stephanie Mills. I help with

[35:26] critical minerals in the survey. Sorry,

[35:28] I was also late. I also had unexpected

[35:30] kid duties this morning. We're in the

[35:32] same boat.

[35:34] While we get Brian's presentation

[35:36] loaded, do you guys want to just take

[35:37] like a little break or something? And

[35:39] then

[35:43] we want to do our

[35:46] >> This won't be our formal break. Just

[35:48] quick break.

[35:58] » Um,

[36:14] » so do you have the calendar?

[36:21] » [laughter]

[36:26] » Yeah, it should actually [laughter]

[36:31] » um there's a lot of peritting challenges

[36:33] because they're on the back

[36:35] side of wildlife refuge and the front

[36:37] side of

[36:40] >> Sorry, everyone online, if there's

[36:42] anyone online, we're breaking

[36:52] infrastructure. So that's

[36:55] maybe

[37:21] Yeah,

[37:23] the problem when you go with a very

[37:25] strong market polyc

[37:30] is processing facent.

[37:45] » [clears throat]

[37:54] » department,

[38:00] right?

[38:00] >> Huh?

[38:16] probably

[38:30] » my brother

[38:45] Love American

[38:50] Warrior.

[39:04] very busy.

[39:07] Those are the only

[39:36] I'm not a geologist.

[39:38] [laughter]

[39:42] I've been around

[39:59] » and that's where I'm not

[40:13] And basically

[40:23] we don't need space to work.

[40:27] We're not going to take

[40:34] » [laughter]

[40:45] » It's

[40:46] the technology

[40:51] all that

[40:54] you know that last bill that bill last

[40:57] year

[40:58] the My name is

[41:36] No.

[41:53] » He was really great to us.

[42:06] aren't

[42:08] just a

[42:19] doing a great job.

[42:28] » All right.

[42:40] Go ahead and call back to order.

[42:50] » We'll come back to our meeting. Um,

[42:53] again, we're really happy to have Brian

[42:55] here. Brian was part of my interview

[42:57] panel when I was interviewing for this

[42:59] job. And one of the questions I asked

[43:01] him was what do you need from EGS and

[43:03] what do you need from from me in

[43:06] particular? I'm really happy that he's

[43:08] been able to

[43:11] um you know visit our board and share a

[43:13] little bit about you Utah Mining

[43:16] Association. There is time for

[43:18] discussion after this. Um one of the

[43:21] topics to discuss is we will be

[43:23] recruiting

[43:25] that represents industrial minerals. So

[43:27] we can have a little chat about that.

[43:29] Andrew Ruffy, who is our industrial

[43:32] minerals lead, unfortunately, is on a

[43:35] field trip with legislators. Um,

[43:40] took the state plane down somewhere. I'm

[43:42] not sure where. Um, so yeah. So, sorry

[43:46] he can't be here. We'll continue that

[43:48] discussion, but I guess I'll turn it

[43:49] over to Brian who's prepared a

[43:51] presentation for us. Thank you.

[43:53] >> Well, again, thank you for the

[43:54] opportunity to come and present. Um, so

[43:57] I I talked to to Darlene and Stephanie a

[43:59] little bit beforehand about what to

[44:02] present and to be honest, this is I do a

[44:03] lot of presentations and this one I

[44:05] haven't quite known how to prepare for

[44:07] because I haven't worked with uh the UGS

[44:09] board, I'm sure, as much as I I should

[44:11] have. Um, and so something I thought

[44:13] might be useful is just to to give you

[44:16] guys a sense. I get asked to do a lot of

[44:18] presentations, especially on kind of the

[44:19] state of the mining industry and what's

[44:21] happening in mining. Um, and so I

[44:23] thought what I'd do is just do a very

[44:25] abbreviated version of uh the

[44:27] presentation that I, you know, tend to

[44:29] give out in in public. Um, I'm not gonna

[44:31] I'm going to go through some of these

[44:32] slides very quickly because frankly a

[44:34] lot of them are based on data that you

[44:35] guys have produced and so you don't need

[44:37] me to talk to you about what critical

[44:39] minerals we have or whatever. Um, so but

[44:42] I thought that it might be just an easy

[44:43] way to sort of start the the

[44:45] conversation and then um, as mentioned,

[44:47] I'd love to have some, you know,

[44:49] discussion and and answer any questions.

[44:51] And I'm I'll have some questions for you

[44:53] as well. So if that's okay. Um, again,

[44:56] [clears throat] I'm going to go through

[44:56] this pretty quickly. So uh, if you do

[44:59] want me to stop on something, please

[45:00] don't hesitate to just, you know, uh,

[45:02] type up and let me know.

[45:05] >> Sorry. Uh, I shouldn't be presenting.

[45:07] So,

[45:08] >> well, you can just just Oh, yeah.

[45:10] Maximize your

[45:11] >> max.

[45:12] >> Yeah. And then you'll be able to see.

[45:15] >> Sorry.

[45:17] >> Where am I going here?

[45:20] >> Just say cancel and then go up to the

[45:23] Yeah, the window thing. There you go.

[45:25] about that. Thank you.

[45:36] » Just Sorry, I'm just looking for a way

[45:38] to maximize the screen here and minimize

[45:40] the

[45:42] >> I think if you hit the three dots

[45:44] towards the middle.

[45:46] >> Yeah, that one. Then go up to full

[45:48] screen.

[45:51] >> Thank you.

[45:52] >> Yeah, he's a little

[45:54] Okay. Um,

[45:56] so usually when I give presentations, I

[45:59] kind of t start by talking about Utah's

[46:01] mining history. Um, you know, I'll

[46:03] always mention this is my favorite part

[46:04] of the capital. When you go into the the

[46:06] cycle realm in the rotunda and you see

[46:07] General Connor, there's a panel of

[46:09] General Patrick Connor inaugurating

[46:11] mining in the state, commercial mining

[46:12] in the state in 1863. Um, there's two

[46:15] beautiful paintings in the governor's

[46:17] office of the Bingham Canyon Mine by HLA

[46:20] Culmer, who was a very famous Utah

[46:21] artist. Um, we actually had these

[46:24] removed for a show at the Utah Museum of

[46:27] Fine Arts a number of years ago, and

[46:28] that was incredibly controversial

[46:29] because it's the only time that they've

[46:31] been out of the governor's office. Um,

[46:33] obviously, if you go up to the cap,

[46:35] you'll see Daniel Jaclyn, he's finally

[46:36] back on his perch in the the courtyard

[46:38] there. Um, after all the construction,

[46:42] and of course, we always have to remind

[46:43] the governor that he lives in a house

[46:44] that was, you know, built with mining

[46:45] money in the Kern's mansion. Um, one of

[46:48] the the first um what I like to call,

[46:51] you know, economic development

[46:52] initiatives that was uh ever created by

[46:55] the territorial legislature way back in

[46:57] 1854 was actually a cash reward for

[47:00] anybody that could find uh coal within

[47:02] 40 miles of Salt Lake City. Nobody

[47:05] actually was able to claim this reward.

[47:06] you know, ultimately our coal was found

[47:08] a little bit further away from Salt

[47:09] Lake, but this was, you know, the

[47:11] recognizing very early on in our state's

[47:14] history how important minerals and

[47:16] especially energy minerals were. Um, and

[47:18] then of course we always have to remind

[47:20] people when they go to places, great

[47:21] places like Park City and Moab that

[47:23] those obviously started out as as mining

[47:26] towns and have really rich mining

[47:28] history. Um, and part of obviously what

[47:30] brings you uh people to Utah and mining

[47:32] is that we've got such an amazing uh

[47:35] mineral endowment. uh geological

[47:37] endowment here. You know, these are just

[47:38] some of the the minerals that are are

[47:40] being produced in Utah. Again, the

[47:42] critical minerals. I won't spend too

[47:44] much time on this because, you know, we

[47:45] have experts here that um I know I've

[47:48] stolen most of this from. Um one thing I

[47:50] do like to talk about is showing the

[47:52] mineral commodity summary that comes

[47:53] from the US Geological Survey. And

[47:55] obviously when I show this slide, nobody

[47:57] can actually read it, but I I always

[47:59] just say, you know, blue is bad on this chart, right? Blue means that

[48:02] we're import dependent for these

[48:04] important mineral commodities. Um and

[48:06] you know that's obviously a challenge

[48:08] for us. So you know 50% import

[48:10] dependence for 52 different mineral

[48:12] commodities, more than 50% import

[48:14] dependence and 100% for 16 different

[48:16] mineral commodities. So I mean that

[48:18] represents a real national security

[48:19] threat for our country especially

[48:21] because China is the leading import

[48:22] source for most of those minerals. Um

[48:25] and just you know to give one example of

[48:27] many you could give you know just with

[48:28] rare earth elements. How many rares go

[48:30] into things like an F-35 Lightning or an

[48:33] Arley B destroyer, Virginia class

[48:35] submarine? I mean, 9,200 pounds of

[48:37] rarers. I mean, that's what that's

[48:38] something that actually really blows my

[48:40] mind because I mean, as you know, rarers

[48:41] are, you know, usually used in fairly

[48:43] small quantities. So, to have to have

[48:45] 9,200 pounds in a Virginia class

[48:47] submarine is quite a thing. Um, and you

[48:51] know, the wonderful number that you guys

[48:52] have come up with that we host 50 to 60

[48:54] critical minerals. I know you guys have

[48:56] to uh you know do this every few years

[48:59] to update that number, but I love that

[49:01] we've got nice, you know, 50 out of 60.

[49:02] That was much better than the 48 out of

[49:04] 60 that I had come up with. So luckily

[49:06] you guys corrected me on that.

[49:08] [clears throat] Um [laughter] and then

[49:10] the way that I've sort of talked about

[49:11] this, which is slightly different than

[49:13] um you know, I know you guys take

[49:15] obviously a much more scientific view

[49:17] and I'm more of a you know, an advocacy

[49:20] guy, a marketing guy. Um, and so what I

[49:22] talked about is, you know, minerals

[49:23] where we have uh current production or

[49:25] what I what I call installed capacity.

[49:27] And so these are minerals that, you

[49:29] know, we have produced in the recent

[49:30] past where we actually have the

[49:31] facilities where we could be producing

[49:33] them again, even if we're not currently

[49:34] doing it. I think a really great example

[49:36] of this is venadium. Um, I mean, we

[49:38] haven't actually done a venadium run at

[49:39] White Mesa for Stephanie, what two or

[49:42] three years probably.

[49:45] >> Yeah. But I mean, we can produce

[49:46] venadium if we if we need to. [cough] um

[49:49] you know magnesium is a little more

[49:50] tricky right now but I mean we do have

[49:52] the facilities um to do that and so I

[49:54] mean this is what I like to talk about

[49:56] where again you know we have either

[49:57] current production or installed cap

[50:03] we have [clears throat] you know

[50:04] historical production or known resources

[50:06] and again I'm sure that the scientists

[50:07] in the room you know would equival

[50:12] to make the point that in many cases you

[50:14] know we we have produced significant

[50:15] quantities of these minerals in the past

[50:17] um or we have you known resources where

[50:20] you you could go out and produce them in

[50:22] uh you know in mining terms relatively

[50:24] short order because the resource has

[50:25] been proven. Um and you know I mean

[50:27] obviously indium is the one we always

[50:29] kind of point to with this although

[50:30] there's you know lots of examples of

[50:32] that. Um and then uh I talk about

[50:36] critical mineral projects you know we do

[50:38] have like the occurrences and everything

[50:39] else but I mean that tends to sort of

[50:41] you know distract a little bit from the message that hey you should come and

[50:44] invest your money here. Um, so I I will

[50:47] talk too about critical mineral projects

[50:49] that are currently in development in

[50:50] Utah. Um, and these are all in in

[50:53] various stages. So I mean there's you

[50:54] know things like uh you know copper

[50:57] projects that are much further along and

[50:59] you know and other ones that are

[51:00] definitely still more in in development

[51:02] or you know study phase. Um I haven't

[51:05] really figured out how to talk about um

[51:07] ionic. So I just kind of call that our

[51:09] poly metallic deposit because I don't

[51:11] know how else to talk about it. Um but

[51:13] you know it is pretty encouraging to see

[51:15] how this list has grown over the past

[51:16] few years as we've seen more interest in

[51:18] critical minerals and more investment um

[51:20] come both from the private sector and

[51:22] from government sources. Um this is a

[51:26] great thing that I totally stole from

[51:27] you of Kennot. Some of you I'm sure have

[51:29] seen this before. Um but this just shows

[51:31] that you know there is huge benefit in

[51:34] looking at our existing permanent

[51:35] operations because you know a lot of

[51:38] them have potential to develop a lot

[51:39] more minerals that they're currently

[51:41] producing. Um so this is actually a

[51:44] chart that um that Don Wellman who uh a

[51:47] lot of you guys know actually presented

[51:49] at our conference a couple of years ago

[51:51] and you know this has changed but um you

[51:54] know it shows like you know the critical

[51:56] minerals they're producing the ones that

[51:57] they could produce kind of in the near

[51:58] term and then things that they could do

[51:59] longer term um but you know a

[52:01] significant amount of minerals that

[52:03] could come out of just this one

[52:04] operation

[52:06] >> out of Bingham Canyon.

[52:06] >> Yeah. out of Canyon and and these all

[52:09] come from sort of different sources and

[52:10] so in some cases like the germanium and

[52:12] gallium I mean that's you know

[52:13] potentially from their smelter dust you

[52:16] have other things that could come from

[52:17] their acid mine drainage there's other

[52:18] things that they believe are in the

[52:19] tailings pile that that they could

[52:21] develop um and so you know different

[52:24] sort of parts of the process where these

[52:25] minerals could potentially fall out and be produced um but again a lot of

[52:30] this depends on you know on market

[52:32] conditions and investment and in most

[52:34] cases you know riotentto not going to

[52:37] make a lot of money on these uh critical

[52:38] minerals which is one of the real

[52:40] challenges. Um but you know if they have

[52:42] a company for example that comes to them

[52:44] like with a torum where they have a

[52:46] solar company and says hey we're we

[52:48] don't want to produce our toium in China

[52:50] anymore so we'd like for you guys to do

[52:51] it and we're willing to pay the price to

[52:53] make that happen. Um you know the

[52:55] defense department's always bugging them

[52:56] about certain minerals like reium and

[52:58] other things. Um, but there really does

[53:00] have to be, you know, the market

[53:02] conditions or an offtaker that is

[53:04] willing to pay the higher prices because

[53:06] obviously all of these can be produced

[53:08] more cheaply in China because they have

[53:10] no labor environmental controls. So

[53:12] that's exciting. Um, another great

[53:14] example that we like to uh talk about

[53:16] and again as mentioned there's a bunch

[53:18] of uh legislators and state officials

[53:20] that are going down to energy fuels

[53:22] today. Um but you know how energy fuels

[53:24] has been able to use their existing

[53:25] facility to start producing rares where

[53:28] again they're bringing in an outside

[53:29] mineral monocy. We've had to sort of

[53:31] talk about how we t you know talk about

[53:32] rares because we do have rares um you

[53:35] know present in the in the mineral

[53:37] endowment here but what's actually being

[53:39] produced on the rare side or you know

[53:41] from minerals that are being being

[53:42] brought from out of state. Um but

[53:44] they're using you know a feed stock of

[53:47] monzite that's being brought from from

[53:49] out of state and potentially overseas in

[53:51] the future. um to you know produce the rarers. Um [clears throat]

[53:56] and the the thing that I I love about

[53:58] this I mean this is such a great story

[54:00] where you know again they're they

[54:02] essentially stole what they were doing

[54:03] from the Chinese because the Chinese

[54:04] have been doing this for a long time.

[54:06] They said hey you know monocy it's got

[54:07] all these rarers but it's also got a lot

[54:09] of ingrain and thorium in it. We can

[54:10] deal with the radioactive elements and

[54:12] then you know isolate the rarers. At

[54:14] first they were sending all these to

[54:15] Estonia because that was the only

[54:17] facility outside of uh outside of China

[54:20] that had the ability to do the

[54:21] separation of the individual rares. But

[54:23] then they built those circuits on their

[54:24] own. Um and now they're you know have

[54:27] announced an expansion to where uh

[54:29] they'll be essentially have the ability

[54:31] to produce any of the rarers that are in

[54:34] uh uh in the moni which is basically all

[54:36] of them. You know they've been doing

[54:38] neodymium and crazymian for two or three

[54:42] years now. um you know they've just

[54:44] announced turbium asp and then with this

[54:46] expansion once that's up and running

[54:48] they can produce any of the rarest you

[54:49] know assuming again there's an offtaker

[54:52] so again a really great opportunity with

[54:54] a permitted operation that doesn't have

[54:56] to go through all of the you know the new permitting challenges that can

[55:00] come with a mining operation that I know

[55:02] you're all familiar with. Um I talk a

[55:04] little bit about you know some of the

[55:05] differences we've seen with this current

[55:07] administration that's very excited about

[55:10] producing critical minerals. There was

[55:11] just another event on Friday, actually

[55:13] last week, where the president announced

[55:14] another $3 billion of investment in the

[55:16] critical mineral sector. Um, this

[55:18] doesn't always come in the most um, you

[55:21] know, predictable or rational ways. Um,

[55:23] and I'll talk about that a little bit

[55:25] later, too. But um, it is great to see

[55:27] that the federal government has

[55:28] recognized that. I mean, this really is

[55:30] an economic national security issue for

[55:32] us to be so dependent on foreign

[55:33] producers for our critical mineral

[55:36] supplies. Um, you know, part of the the

[55:39] unpredictability of of what uh the

[55:41] federal government is doing, they have

[55:42] made some really significant investments

[55:44] in places like Mountain Pass, um, in the

[55:48] Antimony, the Stite Mine up in Idaho and

[55:51] others. Um, in some cases, I I sort of

[55:54] wish that they had made some different

[55:56] investments. I think, you know, Mountain

[55:58] Pass is a proven producer. Some of the

[55:59] other rare earth investments they've

[56:01] made are with what I would call very

[56:02] non-proven producers. Um, you know,

[56:04] luckily Energy Fuels did get a loan

[56:06] guarantee from the Department of Energy

[56:07] for $750 million, which is huge. Um, but

[56:11] some of the investments that have been

[56:13] made are really being made on the basis

[56:15] of, you know, producers saying that they

[56:17] can do something even though they don't

[56:18] really have a track record of doing

[56:20] those things. And that makes me a little

[56:21] bit nervous. Um, just me personally

[56:24] speaking, as Brian, I don't also love

[56:27] the equity stakes are being taken in

[56:28] some of these companies. Um, you know, I

[56:30] don't necessarily worry about it with a

[56:32] friendly administration, but at some

[56:34] point we'll have an unfriendly

[56:35] administration. And, you know, having

[56:36] government ownership and mining

[56:38] operations with an unfriendly

[56:39] administration freaks me out. Um, so,

[56:41] you know, it's it's been a little bit of a bumpy road, but we're in a much

[56:44] better place now than we were a few

[56:46] years ago. Um, this is part of the

[56:49] problem we have. Um, I stole this from

[56:51] Joe Mansion, um, who's, you know, no

[56:53] longer in the Senate, but, um, and this

[56:56] has actually been simplified a tiny

[56:58] little bit, but not much. Um but this

[57:00] was the you know critical minerals

[57:01] ecosystem um in the federal government

[57:04] according to senator former senator Joe

[57:06] Mansion. Um and and I mean all of you

[57:09] guys that have worked in you know in the

[57:11] federal government understand how

[57:12] complicated this can be. So these are

[57:14] all the different agencies and offices

[57:16] that have some touch point in the

[57:18] critical minerals and uh you know

[57:20] materials ecosystem. And so, you know,

[57:22] even with a friendly administration, I

[57:24] mean, getting through uh existing

[57:26] bureaucracy, a lot of this obviously

[57:27] was, some of this was set up by statute,

[57:29] some of this was set up by, you know, by

[57:31] rule and by, you know, the the creative

[57:33] ideas of bureaucrats in Washington. Um,

[57:36] and so, I mean, this is a very

[57:38] complicated ecosystem still. And that's

[57:40] part of why we're also seeing a little

[57:41] bit of disjointedness with investment

[57:43] coming in because there's so many

[57:45] different people that have touch points,

[57:47] frankly, so many different people that

[57:48] have checkbooks and little weird pots of

[57:50] money. And so that's why, you know,

[57:51] there hasn't been sort of a unified

[57:54] funding effort as much as we'd like

[57:56] liked to see that. Um but um this is

[57:59] again better than it was a few years

[58:01] ago, but still the federal government,

[58:04] so it's still very complicated.

[58:06] Um I also uh talked to to folks about

[58:10] what I call the Diamond Mountain

[58:11] problem. Um and I don't know if any of

[58:13] you guys know this story. This is

[58:15] something that I learned a few years

[58:16] ago, but um there is a mountain out in a

[58:19] basin that's uh that's called Diamond

[58:21] Mountain. And the reason for that,

[58:23] accord, if you know, if the the stories

[58:25] are correct, is that you know, back in

[58:26] the in the late 1800s, there were some

[58:28] very enterprising uh you know,

[58:30] entrepreneurs that decided that they

[58:32] were going to sell shares in a diamond

[58:33] mine in county uh to uh some some fairly

[58:37] sophisticated investors actually. I

[58:39] mean, people like Louis Tiffany of

[58:40] Tiffany & Company, the guy that founded

[58:42] the bank of California were actually

[58:43] stockholders in this uh in this diamond

[58:46] mine. Um, as I'm sure all of the

[58:48] geologists know, we don't have diamonds

[58:49] in New County or anywhere in Utah. Um,

[58:52] and so this was a toll scam. Um, you

[58:54] know, they actually would go out there

[58:56] and they'd like sprinkle broad diamonds

[58:57] just, you know, in very, you know,

[58:59] obvious places and they take people in

[59:00] on a train and then they blindfold them

[59:02] and they take them out to where they'd

[59:03] spread the diamonds. I mean, it was a

[59:04] whole, it was a total scam. Um, and I do

[59:07] worry a little bit that um, you know, I

[59:09] don't know that we have outright scams

[59:10] today, but we definitely have people

[59:12] that are overselling their operations

[59:13] and overselling the their ability to

[59:15] produce some of these critical minerals.

[59:18] Um, and my concern as the industry guy

[59:20] is that, you know, for every legitimate

[59:22] project, um, you know, if you have an

[59:24] illegitimate project that gets attention

[59:26] and gets funding, it's taking away from

[59:28] those legitimate projects. like I don't

[59:29] want you know the cylinder of the the

[59:31] mining industry to to materialize so

[59:34] that you know people say oh you know all

[59:35] these mining people are just a bunch of

[59:37] sinko salesman a bunch of you know

[59:39] garbage and they can't really produce

[59:40] any of this stuff and we should just go

[59:41] and be nice to China and whatever and so

[59:44] you know that's why it's very important

[59:45] for us to have good data um you know for

[59:48] us to to to make sure that the the

[59:50] fundamentals of any mining project you

[59:52] know whether that's those you know the

[59:53] geological data the you know the

[59:55] technological data for how they're going

[59:57] to produce and process these uh these

[1:00:00] critical minerals are are real so that

[1:00:02] you know we don't end up having people

[1:00:04] invest in things that you know are the

[1:00:07] modern day equivalent of diamond.

[1:00:10] Um another thing I talk about is that

[1:00:12] you know in the mining industry we

[1:00:14] really do need patient capital. Um you

[1:00:17] know nothing in the mining industry is

[1:00:18] like silicon slopes. You know you don't

[1:00:20] have somebody that starts a you know a

[1:00:22] mining company in their garage and then

[1:00:24] a year later they've got a billion

[1:00:25] dollar valuation. That's just not how

[1:00:26] mining works. Um, you know, most of

[1:00:28] these projects are very hard to get off

[1:00:30] the ground. Um, in many cases, you're

[1:00:32] going to have many, many years until you

[1:00:33] actually get to profitability. In many

[1:00:35] cases, the the margins are very, very

[1:00:37] small, although, you know, they can

[1:00:38] obviously pay off over time. So, it

[1:00:41] takes a different type of capital than,

[1:00:42] you know, what is generally used in the

[1:00:44] venture capital space, which is, you

[1:00:46] know, we want to invest in software

[1:00:48] companies. And again, we want to go

[1:00:49] from, you know, a billion dollar value,

[1:00:52] you know, from from ping pong table to a

[1:00:54] billion dollar valuation in like a year.

[1:00:56] And that just that does doesn't happen

[1:00:57] in in

[1:01:00] the mining sector. That being said, I

[1:01:01] mean, we are seeing some new investors

[1:01:03] come in. This is actually a picture from

[1:01:05] uh what's was the Lisbon Valley mount is

[1:01:07] now called Marion Copper One. And this

[1:01:09] was a mine that was acquired actually by

[1:01:11] some folks that came out of the Tesla

[1:01:13] world, out of the Tesla. um you know,

[1:01:15] lithium and and uh you know, and some of

[1:01:17] the other critical mineral supply chains

[1:01:19] and started their own company and

[1:01:21] actually have brought a little bit of

[1:01:22] you know, that Silicon Valley uh you

[1:01:24] know, investment ethos into the mining

[1:01:26] sector. And so this is actually an

[1:01:28] autonomous hall truck. You've got your

[1:01:29] little autonomous robot dog here. Um you

[1:01:32] know, that does some of the the site

[1:01:33] monitoring and other things. And so I

[1:01:35] mean it is very exciting to see this. Um

[1:01:37] they're using a lot of AI, a lot of

[1:01:38] machine learning, other things. you

[1:01:40] know, they build this huge control

[1:01:41] center that they actually call the

[1:01:42] bridge, which is hilarious because

[1:01:43] they're a bunch of bunch of nerds. Um,

[1:01:47] and you know, they have brought sort of

[1:01:48] that Silicon Valley ethos um, you know,

[1:01:50] into this the mind that, you know, have

[1:01:52] been operating very traditionally for a

[1:01:54] number of years and it's exciting to see

[1:01:55] those two worlds come together. Um, and,

[1:01:58] uh, you know, they're they're doing a

[1:02:00] lot of amazing work there. So, it really

[1:02:01] is a great example. But again, you know,

[1:02:04] these luckily these guys have been in

[1:02:06] the, you know, the mining and mineral

[1:02:07] space before and so they do understand

[1:02:09] that even though they want to move a lot

[1:02:10] quicker than we have traditionally in

[1:02:12] the mining industry, it's still not, you

[1:02:14] know, these these quick turnaround type

[1:02:15] of operations.

[1:02:18] Um, anyway, this is a little quote from

[1:02:21] Secretary Bergam that, you know, I

[1:02:23] always like to make the point that, you

[1:02:25] know, if you want to invest in mining

[1:02:26] and you want to actually produce these

[1:02:27] minerals, you need to invest in the

[1:02:28] states where these minerals actually

[1:02:30] exist. So, you know, when I see mineral

[1:02:32] investments going to, you know, places

[1:02:35] like Louisiana or Oklahoma, it always

[1:02:36] bothers me a little bit because those

[1:02:38] are, you know, it's fine if you want to

[1:02:39] do processing there, but I'd much rather

[1:02:41] do the processing and have those

[1:02:43] investments in the states where the

[1:02:44] minerals actually exist and where we

[1:02:46] have the the expertise in the background

[1:02:48] to produce them and the the regulatory

[1:02:50] environment. And so, that leads me into

[1:02:52] these last slides. You know, why do you

[1:02:53] want to invest in Utah? You know, 163

[1:02:56] years of commercial mining, we're top

[1:02:58] mining global jurisdiction. I mean the

[1:03:00] you know I used to be really excited

[1:03:02] about the Fraser Institute survey when

[1:03:03] we were number one but now we're not and

[1:03:05] so I think it's much garbage now but

[1:03:07] >> [laughter]

[1:03:07] >> um anyway those those bounce all over

[1:03:10] the place um but we do have a

[1:03:11] world-class modern mining industry here

[1:03:14] you know we've been a top 10 hard rock

[1:03:15] mineral producer for a number of years I

[1:03:18] don't know when the last time we were

[1:03:19] out of the top 10 is I'm sure one of you

[1:03:21] guys would know that but um you know

[1:03:24] been a top 10 mineral producer for a

[1:03:25] long time we've kind of fallen out a

[1:03:27] little bit on the coal side Um there's

[1:03:29] some production slowdowns, but we'll get

[1:03:31] back into the top 10 there as well. Um

[1:03:33] and then on the business side, a top

[1:03:34] state for business, you know, high

[1:03:35] rankings for economic outlook and

[1:03:37] quality of life, things of that nature.

[1:03:39] Um you know, a history of recruiting

[1:03:41] talent and businesses. We've got great

[1:03:42] research universities here. And then

[1:03:44] also a young population, which means

[1:03:46] that we have the potential for workforce

[1:03:48] growth in a way that other states don't.

[1:03:50] even though obviously we have a lot of

[1:03:51] workforce challenges with not as many

[1:03:53] people going into uh you know into the

[1:03:56] mining sector and into some of the other

[1:03:58] disciplines that feed into the mining

[1:03:59] sector as we need and that's something

[1:04:01] that we're working very hard on with the

[1:04:03] University of Utah and our other

[1:04:04] institutions of higher education here um

[1:04:07] and also you know we have a culture of

[1:04:09] collaboration here I think that you know

[1:04:11] the state government works very well

[1:04:12] with industry we try and work very well

[1:04:14] with our other states with uh the

[1:04:16] federal government um you know we do

[1:04:18] have a lot of of uh interstate

[1:04:20] collaboration here. So, I mean, you

[1:04:22] know, I have very close relationships

[1:04:23] with all the other mining associations,

[1:04:26] western mining associations. We actually

[1:04:27] just met a couple of weeks ago in

[1:04:28] Nevada. Um, you know, history of

[1:04:30] regional partnerships and also a great

[1:04:33] history of, you know, federal and state

[1:04:35] partnerships. And so, I think you guys

[1:04:37] just saw recently the announcement

[1:04:39] there's going to be a couple of mineral

[1:04:40] processing facilities out of the to Army

[1:04:42] Depot. We still know exactly what that

[1:04:44] looks like to be honest, but again it's

[1:04:46] just an example that you know we we can

[1:04:48] make sure that you know if the federal

[1:04:50] government does have a a project or goal

[1:04:52] that you know Utah can help to

[1:04:53] facilitate that. And so on that note

[1:04:56] that's one of the reasons oh well

[1:04:57] actually I'll get to this. These are

[1:04:59] some of the things we've done over the

[1:05:00] last few years to try and expand the

[1:05:02] mining industry the exploration tax

[1:05:03] credit infrastructure tax credit

[1:05:06] expanding at TIFF and inland port

[1:05:08] project areas. We want to make sure that

[1:05:10] there are investment incentives that are

[1:05:12] targeted specifically for the mining

[1:05:14] industry and other heavy industries and

[1:05:16] not just the ones that have been there

[1:05:17] traditionally. Um, you know, like ETIF,

[1:05:20] for example, ETIF is an economic job

[1:05:22] creation tax credit that's been in use

[1:05:25] in Utah for a long time, but we've been

[1:05:26] able to expand it so it's more useful in

[1:05:28] the mining industry. It's more useful in

[1:05:30] rural areas. um and just make sure that

[1:05:33] again we're we're providing the

[1:05:34] investment uh opportunities for Utah so

[1:05:37] that that capital can come here versus

[1:05:39] other places.

[1:05:41] So um I want to just end by talking

[1:05:43] about this is the the governor's mission

[1:05:46] critical critical minerals policy

[1:05:48] framework. Um so this was a great

[1:05:51] example of uh something that had been uh

[1:05:54] happening for a long time with a lot of

[1:05:55] partners. Um you know we we've had lots

[1:05:58] of discussions with the governor's

[1:06:00] office and with the legislature with a

[1:06:02] lot of different agencies including the

[1:06:04] UGS um you know world trade center AUI a

[1:06:07] lot university of Utah a lot of partners

[1:06:09] have been talking about how do we really

[1:06:12] uh put together a a framework so that

[1:06:14] Utah can take a leadership position on

[1:06:16] the critical minerals front. Um the

[1:06:18] governor kind of took this and gave it a

[1:06:20] fancy name and um you know some nice

[1:06:22] graphics and so this is uh essentially

[1:06:25] what is in the governor's mission

[1:06:27] critical uh that you know we we have um

[1:06:31] increased permitting efficiency that you

[1:06:33] know we increase our permitting uh

[1:06:36] turnaround by uh you know 50% to less

[1:06:38] than 18 months where you can go from

[1:06:40] submitting a permit to actually having

[1:06:42] that permit uh

[1:06:45] um [clears throat]

[1:06:45] granted. um that we're capturing 20 to

[1:06:49] 25% of the US domestic mineral crit

[1:06:52] critical mineral demand um which you

[1:06:55] know I think given our our mineral

[1:06:57] resources it's not you know it's it's a lift but it's a I think a re goal

[1:07:02] um that we're retaining more of the

[1:07:04] economic value of that that we're not

[1:07:05] just mining state that we also become a

[1:07:07] processing state that we become you know

[1:07:09] a manufacturing state on the mineral

[1:07:11] front um again energy fuels is a great

[1:07:13] example of this where you know not only

[1:07:16] they going to be doing the processing

[1:07:17] for rare earth. But they also just

[1:07:18] announced that um you know they've

[1:07:20] acquired a an Australian uh rare earth

[1:07:24] alloying company and they're going to be

[1:07:26] creating an alloying facility here in

[1:07:28] Utah and we'd love to then see you know

[1:07:30] the manufacturing for rare earth magnets

[1:07:32] and other things also follow along

[1:07:33] there. Um and then also that we're a

[1:07:36] leader in innovation. Um and so I want

[1:07:38] to talk a little bit about the mind

[1:07:40] center. I'm sure many of you have heard

[1:07:41] about this. So this was created in some

[1:07:43] legislation that was passed in the last

[1:07:46] session uh HB24

[1:07:49] from Senator Milner. Um and this created

[1:07:51] a number of things on the critical

[1:07:52] minerals front. First it created a

[1:07:54] critical minerals council so that we'll

[1:07:55] have statewide coordination on critical

[1:07:57] mineral issues and we've got

[1:07:59] representatives from the legislature and

[1:08:01] from industry and academia and DNR and

[1:08:04] other state agencies on there. But it

[1:08:06] also created um there's also some

[1:08:07] accelerated permitting and other things

[1:08:09] like that. But it also created what's

[1:08:11] called the mine center. So this is

[1:08:12] minerals for industrial, national and

[1:08:13] economic security. And what we're

[1:08:16] envisioning with this, this would

[1:08:17] actually be a processing uh test bed and

[1:08:20] scale up facility. Um so you know so

[1:08:22] obviously there's a lot that's happening

[1:08:24] you know with the universities and you

[1:08:26] know being able to sort of test

[1:08:28] processing new processing on on kind of

[1:08:30] a bench scale. Um, but we want to be

[1:08:32] able to get from, you know, that kind of

[1:08:33] kilogram level up to, you know, a

[1:08:36] multiple ton per day level to where we

[1:08:38] can actually, you know, have industry

[1:08:39] come in and and create design criteria

[1:08:42] for processing projects so that then

[1:08:43] they can go and and justify those making

[1:08:45] those investments for standalone

[1:08:48] facilities at their at their operations.

[1:08:51] Also, there's the potential to, you

[1:08:52] know, modularize some of these things to

[1:08:54] where, you know, you could have some of

[1:08:55] these processing technologies that you

[1:08:57] can put in, you know, shipping

[1:08:58] containers and and, you know, get out to sites very quickly. And so that the

[1:09:03] facility will be designed as that. You

[1:09:05] know, you'll be able to to bring in feed

[1:09:07] stocks from different mining operations

[1:09:09] and and test them and test different

[1:09:11] processing uh technologies, you know,

[1:09:15] using heat, using, you know, chemical,

[1:09:16] using, you know, flotation, I mean,

[1:09:18] other things like that. Um, and you

[1:09:21] know, again, get from that that sort of

[1:09:23] kilogram level up to a multiple ton per

[1:09:24] day level so that you can, you know,

[1:09:26] create those those design criteria and make the the the investments that

[1:09:31] are needed. Um, we'd like in the future

[1:09:33] to, you know, make sure that all this is

[1:09:34] obviously has an AI lens. We've talked

[1:09:37] about, you know, autonomous test beds,

[1:09:39] underground test beds, and things like

[1:09:40] that. I think there's a lot of

[1:09:41] opportunities for growth in the future.

[1:09:43] So, we actually got $11 million from the

[1:09:46] legislature to do sort of the first

[1:09:47] phase of this and we're actually using

[1:09:49] that to lobby the federal government to

[1:09:51] try and get some national resources. Um,

[1:09:54] you know, with $1 million I think we

[1:09:55] could create a very sort of nice

[1:09:57] state-sized facility, but ultimately

[1:09:59] we'd like this to be sort of a national

[1:10:01] scale facility and for that we'd

[1:10:02] obviously need national resources. And

[1:10:05] so, that's something that we're working

[1:10:06] very hard with the federal government to

[1:10:08] try and get some more national

[1:10:09] resources. And people have talked about

[1:10:11] this as, you know, potentially becoming

[1:10:13] kind of a critical minerals national

[1:10:14] lab. I I don't [clears throat] want to

[1:10:16] talk about national labs because that

[1:10:17] just freaks out the existing national

[1:10:18] labs, but I think that's really could be

[1:10:20] sort of a national center of excellence

[1:10:21] for critical minerals and help to you

[1:10:24] know be sort of the the the hub of a a

[1:10:27] regional system too where you you know

[1:10:30] bring in opportunities from that are

[1:10:32] happening in other states. Um, but we

[1:10:34] feel that Utah is the place to do that.

[1:10:36] And partly because again, you know, it's

[1:10:37] going to be much better to have a a

[1:10:39] national sort of center of excellence in

[1:10:41] Salt Lake City where you can recruit

[1:10:43] people and where you've got all the

[1:10:44] logistical um connections and you know

[1:10:47] again the high quality of life and all

[1:10:49] those things versus you know trying to

[1:10:51] stick this in Nevada or Cheyenne

[1:10:53] Wyoming. So um that obviously you know

[1:10:56] reveals my state bias but that's okay.

[1:10:58] Um, so that's the end of my

[1:11:01] presentation. Um, and yeah, love to

[1:11:06] answer any questions or have some

[1:11:09] discussions about what we can do to

[1:11:11] support you guys.

[1:11:18] » How do you So, a question I have, um, I

[1:11:21] work with groundwater a lot. like what's

[1:11:23] your general response when people bring

[1:11:25] up concerns about the environmental

[1:11:27] consequences of uh you know mining and

[1:11:30] things like that?

[1:11:31] >> Um so a couple of things I mean one is

[1:11:34] that I I think that people have to

[1:11:35] recognize that I mean first of all you

[1:11:38] know the these minerals are if we don't produce them here they're

[1:11:42] going to be be produced somewhere else

[1:11:44] and generally in places that don't have

[1:11:46] any environmental controls that don't

[1:11:48] have any labor standards. Um, and so I

[1:11:50] think, you know, if you're really

[1:11:51] concerned about, you know, the sort of

[1:11:53] worldwide, you know, environment, then

[1:11:56] it's much better to produce minerals in

[1:11:58] countries that that have stringent

[1:11:59] environmental labor standards. Um, and I

[1:12:02] also think that especially when a lot of

[1:12:04] the minerals exist in the west, I mean,

[1:12:06] water for in particular is something

[1:12:08] that we really have to deal with. Um and

[1:12:11] you know mining obviously can be water

[1:12:14] intensive but I think that's part of the

[1:12:15] reason that we also need to make

[1:12:17] investments in uh in research and

[1:12:19] innovation so that we can you know

[1:12:21] reduce water usage um and and even when

[1:12:23] there is sort of necessary water usage I

[1:12:26] mean even doing the research to figure

[1:12:28] out you know how can we make sure that

[1:12:29] any water that is being used can be

[1:12:31] recycled you know or if it does have to

[1:12:33] be released to make sure that you're

[1:12:34] releasing you know water that has the highest purity standards that we can

[1:12:38] have and also I mean frankly too. You

[1:12:40] know, if you're releasing water that

[1:12:42] doesn't, you know, meet the kind of

[1:12:43] criteria you want, well, I mean,

[1:12:45] obviously it has to meet, you know,

[1:12:47] discharge criteria that, you know, the state and the the federal government

[1:12:52] require, but um I mean, even with some

[1:12:54] of the dissolve solids and other things

[1:12:55] that are that, you know, are permissible

[1:12:57] in in uh um in in water releases, in

[1:13:02] most in most cases, those are minerals

[1:13:04] that could potentially be productively

[1:13:05] used. And so um I do think again there

[1:13:08] needs to be more research and innovation

[1:13:10] so that we can figure out how to you

[1:13:12] know be as friendly as possible. Um you

[1:13:15] know one of the challenges we have is

[1:13:17] that you know we we have had you know we

[1:13:19] did have many years of uh you know of

[1:13:24] not having those kind of environmental

[1:13:26] controls in the mining industry and not

[1:13:27] just the mining industry. I mean most

[1:13:29] heavy industry I mean you know I mean

[1:13:31] when I was born you still didn't have to

[1:13:33] have seat belts in your car for heaven's

[1:13:34] sake. So, you know, I I think that these

[1:13:36] things evolve over time, but again, what

[1:13:38] happens today in the mining industry is

[1:13:40] so vastly different than what happened

[1:13:41] 50 years ago, but I mean that legacy is

[1:13:44] something that gets kind of thrown in

[1:13:45] our face pretty frequently. Um, so

[1:13:48] again, there's, you know, a big

[1:13:49] contingent down in southern Utah and

[1:13:50] like you never hear about what is

[1:13:52] happening in southern Utah right now.

[1:13:53] You hear about what happened during the

[1:13:54] uranium boom back in the, you know, 50s

[1:13:57] and 60s and but, you know, that's a

[1:13:59] legacy that has to be dealt with. But um

[1:14:02] yeah, I I I do think that a lot of the

[1:14:04] technologies that are in use today are

[1:14:06] so much better than they were even a few

[1:14:08] years ago. Um and you know, the mining

[1:14:10] industry is always looking to lessen its

[1:14:12] environmental impact. one because that

[1:14:14] helps us maintain our social license to

[1:14:16] operate, but also because um I mean

[1:14:19] frankly that um you know

[1:14:25] being able to to minimize the amount of environmental impact is ultimately

[1:14:29] good for business because I mean you're

[1:14:31] not dealing with these kind of you know

[1:14:32] legacy sites that are going to you know

[1:14:34] require you know maintenance and

[1:14:36] monitoring for years into the future. So

[1:14:39] okay,

[1:14:39] >> I'd also add there is this there's an

[1:14:41] equity and social justice component to

[1:14:43] this as well because here in the west we

[1:14:45] do enjoy a very high standard of living

[1:14:47] a very mineral intensive standard of

[1:14:50] living and by refusing to take on and

[1:14:52] manage our fair share of the resource

[1:14:54] impact globally we're shoving that off

[1:14:57] into other countries and making them

[1:14:58] deal with the impacts and the outcomes

[1:15:00] while we are the ones who tend to have

[1:15:02] the benefit of the very resource

[1:15:04] intensive. So I also think there's kind

[1:15:06] of a global social justice and equity

[1:15:09] component to this of the US needing to

[1:15:11] really um start managing our fair share

[1:15:14] of the resources that make our lifestyle

[1:15:16] what it is today. So I do think there's

[1:15:17] a component of that as well.

[1:15:20] >> And that that's a great point. I mean,

[1:15:21] nobody's willing to, you know, give up

[1:15:23] the, you know, all the devices and, you

[1:15:25] know, our cars and everything else that

[1:15:26] we use. And, yeah, I mean, it is a

[1:15:28] little bothersome to me when you have

[1:15:29] people that'll, you know, drive across

[1:15:31] town for a fair trade coffee bean and

[1:15:32] they're, you know, an electric car

[1:15:34] that's full of cobalt from, you know,

[1:15:36] child miners and the Congo. So, I mean,

[1:15:38] that's just that's not acceptable. So, I

[1:15:40] think that that's something that that

[1:15:42] does have to be dealt with and and we

[1:15:43] can deal with it. And it's not just the

[1:15:45] US. I mean there's a lot of you know

[1:15:46] responsible mining jurisdictions but um

[1:15:49] you know unfortunately a lot of the

[1:15:50] minerals that are in use today are

[1:15:53] produced in very you know unregulated

[1:15:57] jurisdictions and you know jurisdictions

[1:15:59] where things happen that you know would

[1:16:02] appall the average you know person in an

[1:16:04] industrialized country if they want to

[1:16:05] pay attention to it.

[1:16:09] » Could you just give us a thumbnail

[1:16:11] sketch of the Utah Mining Association?

[1:16:13] um you know organization membership etc.

[1:16:18] >> Um so the Utah Mining Association was

[1:16:20] founded in 1915 and so we're one of the older mining associations in the

[1:16:25] country. Um you know there's a couple

[1:16:27] that have us be you know in Colorado and

[1:16:29] others but that's okay. Um so you know

[1:16:32] we were uh created obviously to you know

[1:16:34] be an advocacy organization for the

[1:16:36] mining industry. Um, our founding

[1:16:38] members were actually, you know, what

[1:16:40] was the Utah Copper Company at the time,

[1:16:41] now you know, known as Riot Kenn. Um,

[1:16:44] and we were actually created originally

[1:16:46] as a chapter of the American Mining

[1:16:47] Congress, which no longer exists, but we

[1:16:49] became, you know, independently, uh, uh,

[1:16:52] incorporated back in the the 60s. Um, so

[1:16:56] our membership, uh, we basically have,

[1:16:58] uh, you know, all most of the major

[1:17:00] mining operations in the state. We still

[1:17:02] have a few holdouts that we always have

[1:17:03] to work on. Um and then a lot of service

[1:17:05] companies that work in the mining

[1:17:07] industries and these can be you know

[1:17:09] anything from uh you know engineering

[1:17:11] firms to law firms to equipment

[1:17:13] providers to um you know consumable

[1:17:16] providers. I mean anybody that has a

[1:17:18] stake in you know servicing the mining

[1:17:20] industry and wants the mining industry

[1:17:21] to stay healthy we try and go after them

[1:17:23] to be uh to be our members. Um so

[1:17:26] currently we've got a little over 180

[1:17:28] members. Um again most of the major

[1:17:30] mining operations in the state and then

[1:17:32] a lot of service members. Um, and our

[1:17:35] primary responsibility as the mining

[1:17:37] industry are to to be advocates. I mean,

[1:17:39] I'm a registered lobbyist. Um, I do a

[1:17:41] lot of work with our our legislature,

[1:17:43] with our state agencies, with, you know,

[1:17:45] local governments and with the federal

[1:17:47] government, our f federal regulatory

[1:17:49] agencies, our federal delegation. Um,

[1:17:51] and so, anything that is going to make

[1:17:54] it better to mine in Utah, we want to

[1:17:56] promote those policies. And anything

[1:17:57] that makes it a problem to mine in Utah,

[1:17:59] we want to try and fix those policies or

[1:18:02] make them go away. Um so um in some

[1:18:05] cases that is you know passing

[1:18:06] standalone bills like the the critical

[1:18:08] mineral bills that I I bill that I

[1:18:10] talked about. Um in some cases it's just

[1:18:12] making little you know tweaks to bills

[1:18:14] where there's just something where you

[1:18:16] know maybe money got pulled into it you

[1:18:17] know inadvertently into a bill and we

[1:18:19] just try and you know get ourselves

[1:18:21] exempted out of those things. Um in some

[1:18:24] cases those can be very specific to to

[1:18:27] mining. In some cases there I mean I

[1:18:28] worked on an insurance bill last session

[1:18:31] which made me really cranky but I mean

[1:18:33] anything that you know is problematic

[1:18:34] for our members I mean that particular

[1:18:36] insurance bill is going to be really

[1:18:38] costly to rein they have a high level of

[1:18:40] self insurance so I had to get involved

[1:18:43] and so you know really anything again

[1:18:45] that's going to be damaging to the

[1:18:47] mining industry we want to fight against

[1:18:48] those things. Um we also try and do a

[1:18:51] lot of public awareness um help people

[1:18:53] understand um the modern mining industry

[1:18:56] versus you know again the industry from

[1:18:58] a long time ago. Um we do a lot of

[1:19:00] education work. So you know we have

[1:19:02] people in the industry that we send into

[1:19:04] to schools to do presentations. Um you

[1:19:07] know to help kids understand you know

[1:19:09] where their the minerals come from you

[1:19:11] know where all the stuff in their phone

[1:19:12] and their toothpaste and whatever else

[1:19:14] comes from. Um we've also gotten very

[1:19:16] involved with STEM education efforts

[1:19:19] because um that's something where we

[1:19:20] want people to understand all the STEM

[1:19:22] opportunities that are available in the

[1:19:23] mining industry. Uh so we we uh have had

[1:19:26] a booth at STEMfest for the last number

[1:19:28] of years that the state puts on where

[1:19:30] we've got you know 14,000 kids coming

[1:19:32] through the America Expo Center and you

[1:19:34] know talking about STEM careers. We

[1:19:36] bring in always a big piece of

[1:19:37] equipment. So, we had a massive front

[1:19:39] end loader last time and the kids can

[1:19:40] come and, you know, climb in the bucket

[1:19:42] and climb up in the cab and, you know,

[1:19:44] we throw hard hats on them and then talk

[1:19:45] about all the cool stuff you can do in

[1:19:47] mining. Um, so we do a lot of that. Um,

[1:19:51] and then also opportunities for uh

[1:19:53] business development and networking for

[1:19:55] our members. Um, so we have a few big

[1:19:57] events every year. We have an award

[1:19:59] scaler where we recognize safety

[1:20:00] performance and also environmental

[1:20:02] stewardship and other things like that.

[1:20:05] Um, we have a big golf tournament that

[1:20:06] we just had a couple of weeks ago where,

[1:20:08] you know, we give people an opportunity

[1:20:10] to come out and have a little bit of

[1:20:11] fun, do some employee recognition, but

[1:20:13] also give especially our service

[1:20:15] companies an opportunity to, uh, you

[1:20:17] know, sell their services to the mine

[1:20:19] operators. And then we have a big

[1:20:20] convention in the fall. This year it'll

[1:20:22] be November 3rd through 4th at the Salt

[1:20:25] Palace, which we signed up for before

[1:20:27] they told us they were like closing the

[1:20:29] Salt Palace, which is exciting. um and

[1:20:32] you know give opportunities to talk

[1:20:33] about um you know best practices uh

[1:20:36] policy issues and also you know

[1:20:38] networking and business development

[1:20:39] opportunities for our members. So we've

[1:20:41] actually had um a number of uh UGS folks

[1:20:45] that have um you know Andrew and

[1:20:47] Stephanie and um Michael I think have

[1:20:49] all presented our conference if I'm

[1:20:51] remembering correctly. Um so that's a

[1:20:55] great opportunity for us. So when people

[1:20:57] ask me probably I spend 90% of my time

[1:21:00] on lobby and advocacy activities and

[1:21:02] then you know 10% on all that other

[1:21:05] stuff. So um yeah I'm here to here to be

[1:21:09] your friendly mining lobbyist. So

[1:21:14] » great

[1:21:16] I have a question about workforce.

[1:21:17] >> Yeah.

[1:21:18] >> So you mentioned workforce and I think

[1:21:20] Rich and I were talking a little bit

[1:21:22] about workforce. what's the, you know,

[1:21:25] what does it look like out there? And I

[1:21:27] guess from our from our industry members

[1:21:30] on the board, you know, how is the

[1:21:32] workforce looking out there? Are we

[1:21:34] finding the people with the right

[1:21:36] education that we need to, you know, to

[1:21:39] do the work? And if this really does

[1:21:41] expand, you know, who do we hire? Where

[1:21:44] do we find them?

[1:21:46] >> Yeah. I mean, and I'd love to hear your

[1:21:49] impressions on this. Um, you know,

[1:21:50] workforce is a real concern. Um, I mean,

[1:21:53] we're frankly just not graduating enough

[1:21:55] uh mining engineers and geologists and

[1:21:58] chemical engineers and all the other uh

[1:22:00] people we need in the mining industry.

[1:22:02] Um, and I I do think again that the

[1:22:05] especially the federal government and

[1:22:07] our universities have recognized that

[1:22:08] this is an issue. Um, so Congressman

[1:22:12] Bruce Owens uh from Utah actually had

[1:22:15] his mining schools bill that he's been

[1:22:17] trying to pass for the past few years.

[1:22:18] actually was able to get that language

[1:22:20] into the what's called the National

[1:22:22] Defense Authorization Act, which is one

[1:22:23] of the few kind of must pass bills every

[1:22:25] year. Um, it's gotten in on the House

[1:22:28] side. We're hoping that the language

[1:22:29] stays in there in the Senate side, but

[1:22:31] that would give some additional

[1:22:32] resources to uh to mining schools to be

[1:22:35] able to go out and recruit more

[1:22:36] students. Um, I I will say that, you

[1:22:39] know, with the University of Utah, um,

[1:22:41] you know, that's our our College of

[1:22:43] Minds, Inner Sciences is at the

[1:22:44] University of Utah. Um, and you know, we

[1:22:47] went through kind of a challenging

[1:22:50] period with the university. Um, you

[1:22:52] know, where we just didn't feel like

[1:22:53] that the administration was giving the

[1:22:55] support that was needed for for that the

[1:22:57] college. Um, and I feel like that's

[1:22:59] really turning around. Um, you know,

[1:23:01] President Randle's been

[1:23:07] » which are combined but separate, which I

[1:23:10] >> don't talk about anymore.

[1:23:12] >> Um, you know, Pearl Sand, she she's

[1:23:14] doing a really great job. Um, you know,

[1:23:16] we've got some good people that are

[1:23:17] committed to making sure that we're out,

[1:23:19] you know, recruiting more students and also just helping people again

[1:23:22] understand the opportunities that are

[1:23:24] available. Um, you know, it's there's

[1:23:27] still work that needs to be done there.

[1:23:29] Um, you know, we still don't have an

[1:23:31] economic geology. Um,

[1:23:33] >> sent an [laughter] email about this

[1:23:34] yesterday. The thing is too about that

[1:23:37] workforce is like we still are kind of

[1:23:39] treating workforce in silos from

[1:23:40] everything I see. like the mining

[1:23:42] engineers, the metallergists, the

[1:23:44] geologists, but like [clears throat] you

[1:23:46] know for example this an economic

[1:23:47] geologist we don't have one at the and

[1:23:49] we don't have one in the state of Utah

[1:23:50] actually right now. I think I and my

[1:23:52] team are the only public facing economic

[1:23:54] geologists in the state right now. Um

[1:23:56] but you don't need that person just to

[1:23:58] train more that geologist. You need that

[1:24:00] person to also train your engineers, to

[1:24:02] also train your metallergists, to also

[1:24:03] train your chemical engineers because it

[1:24:05] ultimately all comes down to the charact

[1:24:06] what we call or body knowledge and whole

[1:24:08] body characterization. Ultimately all

[1:24:10] comes down to the character of the rock.

[1:24:11] So we're just it's hard like hard trying

[1:24:16] to get people to live.

[1:24:17] >> Yeah. So I mean thing things are

[1:24:18] definitely getting better. Um you know I

[1:24:21] mean there used to be this weird silo

[1:24:22] between the college of engineering and

[1:24:24] the college of mining and that's that's

[1:24:26] breaking down. Um it's things are much

[1:24:30] better than they were a few years ago.

[1:24:32] Again, there's still a lot of work to be

[1:24:33] done. There's still many more resources

[1:24:35] that are needed. Um, you know, both

[1:24:37] again in terms of student recruitment. I

[1:24:39] mean, the facilities at the U definitely

[1:24:40] need updating. They're they're very

[1:24:42] antiquated. Um, and also there's other

[1:24:45] universities that you know are

[1:24:46] interested in getting into uh, you know,

[1:24:49] helping with with workforce development

[1:24:51] and haven't quite figured out how to do

[1:24:52] that and we're trying to help on that.

[1:24:54] Um Utah State University uh actually had

[1:24:57] a bill that would have given them

[1:24:59] resources to do a study on creating a

[1:25:01] mining engine like what it would have

[1:25:03] taken to create a mining engineering

[1:25:04] program and that kind of broke down when

[1:25:06] the president previous president left

[1:25:08] and so hopefully we're they're going to

[1:25:09] run that again this year. um you

[1:25:11] [clears throat] know some of the tech

[1:25:12] colleges and um you know those smaller

[1:25:15] universities are interested in in

[1:25:17] helping on the kind of skilled trade

[1:25:19] side because that's one thing I love

[1:25:21] about mine is I mean we need everybody

[1:25:22] you know we need people that are coming

[1:25:24] right out of high school and can just

[1:25:25] get on the job training all the way up

[1:25:27] to you know PhD um you know engineers

[1:25:30] and so um it's it's a challenge though

[1:25:34] because again I think a lot of people

[1:25:35] these days don't understand they don't

[1:25:38] understand the mining industry they

[1:25:39] don't necessarily want to go into STEM

[1:25:40] fields not just at mining but anywhere.

[1:25:43] Um you know I I think that some of the

[1:25:46] um changes that you know and we have

[1:25:49] seen a little bit of you know softening

[1:25:50] of attitudes about the mining industry

[1:25:52] as people you know understood how

[1:25:54] problematic it is to you know again be

[1:25:56] dependent on these foreign supply chains

[1:25:58] but also again that we can produce

[1:25:59] things responsibly here and so you do

[1:26:02] have people that I think you know even a

[1:26:03] few years ago wouldn't have considered a

[1:26:04] career in mining you know now will

[1:26:06] consider it because they do recognize

[1:26:08] hey you know this is a way for us to you

[1:26:10] know help our country meet its you know

[1:26:12] obligations. to produce these minerals

[1:26:14] or you know you can be an

[1:26:15] environmentalist and work in the mining

[1:26:17] industry. You can be a social justice

[1:26:18] warrior and work in the mining industry

[1:26:20] because there's actually you know some

[1:26:22] great outcomes that come when we produce

[1:26:24] you know the minerals that everybody

[1:26:25] relies on responsibly. Um so I I think

[1:26:29] that there have you know been some

[1:26:30] attitudal shifts. Um you know one of the

[1:26:33] challenges we have honestly is that

[1:26:35] there's still some you know

[1:26:36] environmental NOS's that definitely

[1:26:38] haven't had any shifts in their thinking

[1:26:40] about mining. um you know or energy or

[1:26:43] anything else and frankly they have a

[1:26:45] lot of money and they have a lot of

[1:26:46] impact and um you know it's hard to

[1:26:49] combat that sometimes but um you know

[1:26:52] again I I feel much more optimistic

[1:26:54] about us being able to meet our our

[1:26:56] workforce challenges now because people

[1:26:58] are I think moving in the right

[1:27:00] direction and paying attention to these

[1:27:01] issues in a way that they just weren't

[1:27:03] even a few years ago.

[1:27:04] >> What about BYU? They used to produce

[1:27:08] mining geologists. maybe not anymore.

[1:27:11] >> Um I mean I to be honest I haven't had

[1:27:14] as much interaction with BYU just

[1:27:16] because you know we tend to focus on the

[1:27:18] publicly funded universities but um I I

[1:27:21] do believe that they still have a

[1:27:22] geology program is that

[1:27:24] >> they Oh yes they lost.

[1:27:28] >> Yeah. And they did run a search um but

[1:27:31] they the search failed. So they actually

[1:27:34] were trying to recruit um kind of the

[1:27:36] next generation of say like economic

[1:27:37] geologists and things like that but they

[1:27:40] weren't able to

[1:27:43] >> but we need we need this industry to do

[1:27:45] a better job in in working with I mean

[1:27:47] it's just it tends to be a little easier

[1:27:49] to work with the universities that are

[1:27:50] publicly funded because you know they

[1:27:53] have to answer the legislature and I

[1:27:55] mean that's really how we get a lot of

[1:27:56] things done here but um it's it's a well

[1:27:59] taken point. I mean they're obviously a

[1:28:01] massive university and you know we need

[1:28:03] to make sure that they're [snorts] in

[1:28:05] the game as well and even some of our

[1:28:07] other you know UVU is another one where

[1:28:09] we haven't quite figured out how to work

[1:28:11] with UVU but I mean it's a huge

[1:28:13] university and we need to you know make

[1:28:15] sure that

[1:28:16] >> uh you know that they're providing even

[1:28:17] if they don't want to have a straight

[1:28:18] money engineering program that's okay

[1:28:20] [clears throat] I mean just to reinforce

[1:28:21] their you know their engineering

[1:28:23] offerings and things like that would be

[1:28:24] very beneficial and to make sure that

[1:28:26] again if you're a chemical engineer you

[1:28:28] know civil engineer whatever or you

[1:28:30] understand that there's opportunities in

[1:28:32] the mining industry. Um, and you know,

[1:28:34] if you're a civil engineer, you don't

[1:28:35] just have to go and, you know, plant

[1:28:36] subdivisions or whatever. Like, you can

[1:28:38] do some really cool stuff in the mining

[1:28:40] industry that, you know, I think for

[1:28:42] civil engineer, for example, is a lot

[1:28:43] more exciting than planning

[1:28:45] subdivisions.

[1:28:50] » I guess I have one more question. Is

[1:28:52] there is there anything that we as a

[1:28:54] survey

[1:28:56] can do that we're not doing to help the

[1:28:58] [clears throat and cough] work of the

[1:28:59] mining association and just generally

[1:29:01] mining in Utah?

[1:29:03] Well, and and I appreciate all the work

[1:29:05] that you guys do. Um, you know, again, I rely a lot on um, you know, the data

[1:29:10] that you guys produce um, especially for

[1:29:13] helping to educate policy makers and the general public. Um, you know,

[1:29:18] obviously you guys work a lot with our member companies, especially our,

[1:29:22] you know, mining exploration companies

[1:29:23] to to help provide them with, uh, you

[1:29:26] know, the services that they need. Um,

[1:29:29] you know, I I think that, um,

[1:29:33] I think that getting you guys involved

[1:29:35] more with uh, some of the efforts that I

[1:29:38] was talking about like with STEM

[1:29:39] education and other things like that. I

[1:29:41] mean, I would love to have people from

[1:29:42] UGS and STEMfest with us. um you know in

[1:29:45] the past we've had people from dogm and

[1:29:47] from um uh uh from sitla and from uh

[1:29:52] even FFSL have come to that but we've

[1:29:54] never had UGS people there and I think

[1:29:56] that you know especially when you've got

[1:29:59] you know I mean most of the time we'll

[1:30:01] end up having somebody that's got you

[1:30:02] know some geological knowledge that you

[1:30:05] know because we always bring mineral

[1:30:06] samples and things like that but I mean

[1:30:07] it's different having you know somebody

[1:30:10] that just has a little bit of geological

[1:30:12] knowledge versus somebody that has a lot

[1:30:14] that can, you know, pick up one of those

[1:30:15] mineral samples or pick up that tooth

[1:30:17] tube of toothpaste that we have out for

[1:30:18] the kids and explain um, you know, in a

[1:30:21] much more uh, detailed way. Um, you

[1:30:24] know, why they should be excited about

[1:30:26] this stuff. So, I think that's that's

[1:30:28] one thing. Um, and you know, in the past

[1:30:31] there have been some I don't know,

[1:30:34] Darlene and I have talked about this,

[1:30:35] some sort of I don't know how to say

[1:30:37] this, sort of like expeditionary things

[1:30:39] that have happened with, you know,

[1:30:41] projects that that weren't particularly

[1:30:43] helpful to industry that sort of seemed

[1:30:45] like um, you know, I I don't know where

[1:30:49] the impetus was coming from um, you

[1:30:52] know, uh, for for some of these research

[1:30:54] projects that um, you know, may have

[1:30:56] been very interesting on the science

[1:30:57] side, but weren't particularly useful

[1:30:59] for, you know, advancing the the mining

[1:31:01] industry in the state. And, you know, I

[1:31:03] think some of those have, you know, gone

[1:31:05] away with leadership change, but, um,

[1:31:07] you know, I have a study coming out

[1:31:09] that's basically like blaming the mining

[1:31:11] industry for some horrible thing

[1:31:12] happening and it's got the UGS logo on

[1:31:14] it. That's problematic for me. Um, so

[1:31:17] and again I think that you know I'm not

[1:31:19] as worried about that now as I you know

[1:31:21] was with previous leadership but I know

[1:31:24] that that sounded really gauzy but um

[1:31:28] anyway I just I think you know figuring

[1:31:30] out how to provide the data and insights

[1:31:33] that are needed to attract mining

[1:31:35] investment here is you know really what

[1:31:37] we rely on you guys to do. I mean, you

[1:31:39] know, I need to be able to go out and

[1:31:41] tell people, hey, you need to come and

[1:31:42] invest in Utah because, you know, yes,

[1:31:45] we have the policy environment and the

[1:31:46] investment environment, but also, you

[1:31:48] know, we've got the minerals here and,

[1:31:50] you know, they're developable and we've

[1:31:51] got all the great geological data that

[1:31:53] you can rely on and, you know, come to

[1:31:55] Utah and don't go to don't go to Idaho,

[1:31:58] you know, don't go to not that I have

[1:32:00] anything against Idaho, but I'd rather

[1:32:01] have the money come here, right? Um and

[1:32:03] so I think you know just keeping that

[1:32:05] focus on you know I mean ultimately the

[1:32:07] more you guys can help us attract mining

[1:32:10] investment here and also too on the you

[1:32:12] know on the policy side um you know

[1:32:15] we've had some good conversations about

[1:32:17] you know policy issues that affect you

[1:32:19] guys directly but you know I mean

[1:32:21] there's there were 1100 bill files

[1:32:24] opened in last session um and again you

[1:32:27] know we had 155 bills on our tracker and

[1:32:30] not all of those guys you know not all

[1:32:31] [clears throat] those bills you guys

[1:32:32] necessarily going to have an opinion

[1:32:34] about or you know have any insight into

[1:32:35] but a lot of them you will and you know

[1:32:37] I'd love to make sure that you know

[1:32:39] we're getting feedback from uh you know

[1:32:41] from the staff and from your board if

[1:32:43] there's something in a bill that's

[1:32:44] problematic that you know I need to go

[1:32:46] up there and try and fix or we can even

[1:32:48] bring you know you guys in to testify or

[1:32:51] to you know to help with those lobbying

[1:32:53] efforts that would be very beneficial um

[1:32:56] because in many cases a lot of these

[1:32:58] things again they're just kind of

[1:32:59] unintended consequences or you know on

[1:33:01] the proactive side are if there's things

[1:33:03] where you know there are resources or

[1:33:05] policies that that need to be

[1:33:07] implemented that would help you guys do

[1:33:08] your job or that you know things you see

[1:33:10] in other states or you really wish that

[1:33:12] we had in Utah or whatever the case is

[1:33:13] like I'd love to figure out how to make

[1:33:16] those things happen so that um you know I just I want you Utah to be

[1:33:20] the best place to mine and so anything

[1:33:22] that's preventing us from you know from getting there I I want to you know

[1:33:27] clear those obstacles so I need people

[1:33:29] that have that you know in-depth

[1:33:31] knowledge like you guys do to to help

[1:33:33] you do that. Um, you know, I I I know

[1:33:36] enough about a bunch of little things

[1:33:38] that I can, you know, be dangerous up on

[1:33:40] the hill, but, you know, when we get

[1:33:42] into a lot of these technical issues,

[1:33:43] you know, you get I get way over my

[1:33:45] skis. So, I I need the advice and

[1:33:47] expertise of, you know, folks that are

[1:33:49] in this room to make that happen.

[1:33:54] » So, yeah, we can do that. We were busy

[1:33:56] last legislative session, busier than I

[1:33:59] think we have been with kind of popup

[1:34:01] bills that we weren't really aware of.

[1:34:04] >> Um, and I think our staff really tried

[1:34:07] to be responsive to both legislators

[1:34:10] and, you know, internally at DNR as

[1:34:12] well. Ben Dylan sitting at the end of

[1:34:14] the table is wears many hats at UGS.

[1:34:17] He's our contract analyst. He's also one

[1:34:19] of my key strategic adviserss, but he is

[1:34:21] also our legislative liaison. And so we

[1:34:24] can, you know, give you his phone number

[1:34:26] and and hopefully, you know, that works

[1:34:29] both ways as well. So we can talk during

[1:34:31] the legislative session.

[1:34:33] >> So yeah, and then um Mike just brought

[1:34:36] our hot off the press 2025

[1:34:40] Utah money report. So you can

[1:34:42] [clears throat] take that with you um as

[1:34:44] well and distribute it to your

[1:34:46] membership, please. one of our very

[1:34:49] small contributions that has been

[1:34:51] ongoing for

[1:34:54] almost 40 years. So we've started EGS

[1:34:58] started publishing an annual mining

[1:35:00] report. I think the first one was 1988

[1:35:03] somewhere around there. Um it's been

[1:35:05] done every year. There it used to be two

[1:35:07] separate reports a mining report and

[1:35:09] then a coal report. Uh we have just

[1:35:13] combined those into just one big binding

[1:35:15] report. And

[1:35:18] this one is hot off the press. Um just

[1:35:21] came out or it's actually not even

[1:35:23] really published yet. It'll be probably

[1:35:25] published next week. and it is an

[1:35:29] overview of 2025 activities, but also a

[1:35:32] lot of our updates and

[1:35:36] descriptions of the exploration include

[1:35:41] stuff that's happening in 2026 as well.

[1:35:44] So, we try to keep it timely. We

[1:35:47] communicate with all the different

[1:35:49] mining operators. We send out

[1:35:51] questionnaires. I send out

[1:35:53] questionnaires to the coal companies.

[1:35:54] that go and visit the coal companies.

[1:35:57] Steph and Andrew will communicate with

[1:35:59] industrial mineral operations and metal

[1:36:02] operations. So we we try our best to

[1:36:06] summarize everything that's going on

[1:36:08] world. So we hope it's useful to

[1:36:12] everybody to you.

[1:36:14] >> No, this is great and I appreciate that.

[1:36:16] I mean it's a pretty early publication

[1:36:18] date for you guys, too.

[1:36:20] >> We're trying to get it out. Well, yeah,

[1:36:23] we're trying to get it out as soon as we

[1:36:25] can.

[1:36:27] >> We have We have to wait on annual

[1:36:28] reports a lot of times and a lot of

[1:36:29] companies aren't putting their annual

[1:36:31] reports out until March or April. So,

[1:36:32] something like that actually helps us

[1:36:34] back.

[1:36:34] >> This is great. Yeah, there was a few

[1:36:36] years ago when it didn't come out until

[1:36:37] like October or something and that kind

[1:36:39] of freaked me out. So,

[1:36:41] >> not gonna lie, that was the year I had a

[1:36:42] baby.

[1:36:44] >> [laughter]

[1:36:46] » a really good

[1:36:48] something that you find informative

[1:36:51] rely on. Yeah. Great. Is it something

[1:36:53] your membership?

[1:36:55] >> We do. We we send this out to our

[1:36:57] membership. Um I use this you know a lot

[1:36:59] of times especially with our federal

[1:37:01] delegation

[1:37:02] >> like people you know will come and

[1:37:03] they're like oh I have all these

[1:37:04] questions. I'm like okay well here read

[1:37:06] this first and then come back to me with

[1:37:08] questions. So, um, between this and the

[1:37:10] critical minerals report, I mean, those

[1:37:12] are two that I send out to a lot of,

[1:37:15] >> um, you know, legislative staff and, you

[1:37:17] know, and other policy makers. And so,

[1:37:20] um, yeah, this is incredibly helpful.

[1:37:22] So, that's great.

[1:37:23] >> Yeah. Again, this and the critical

[1:37:24] mineral report are the two that I rely

[1:37:26] on probably the most, you know, in the

[1:37:28] work that I do. Um, some of the

[1:37:30] specialized reports are amazing, but

[1:37:31] just get into maybe more detail than I

[1:37:34] need for my, you know, high level,

[1:37:36] >> right? the 67 page.

[1:37:40] [clears throat]

[1:37:41] >> Yeah. Well, would you make sure that you

[1:37:43] let the legislature know about this and

[1:37:46] how how important it is for your

[1:37:48] industry as well? You know, I think I

[1:37:51] think coming from a a third party, you

[1:37:54] know, that leads, you know, one of the

[1:37:55] key industries in the state. I think

[1:37:57] that go over really well with them. We

[1:37:59] often don't get a lot of airplay for

[1:38:01] that kind of work that we do behind the

[1:38:03] scenes. It takes a lot of industry

[1:38:05] knowledge and communication and really

[1:38:09] personal relationships to collect a lot

[1:38:11] of this data.

[1:38:12] >> You know, Mike is especially great at

[1:38:14] putting together, I think, some

[1:38:16] statistics and data around all of that.

[1:38:19] Um, and so I'm glad to hear that it's an

[1:38:21] informative report and that you're

[1:38:23] sharing it so widely. Thank you.

[1:38:26] >> Thank you guys.

[1:38:28] Um I I don't want to overstate my

[1:38:30] welcome, but one other thing that I'd

[1:38:32] love to um you know,

[1:38:35] we were Andy and I were just talking

[1:38:36] about this a little earlier. You know,

[1:38:38] one of the the sort of potential

[1:38:40] conflict points that I do see coming up

[1:38:41] and that I think you guys will have to

[1:38:43] be involved with is you know, on um you

[1:38:46] know, in geothermal and like how do you

[1:38:48] regulate any potential mineral

[1:38:50] production out of geothermal operations?

[1:38:53] Um that's kind of an ongoing discussion

[1:38:55] in the legislature right now. I think

[1:38:56] that having, you know, good data around,

[1:38:59] you know, what is potentially producable

[1:39:01] and and other things from geothermal

[1:39:03] operations and how do we deal with that

[1:39:04] from a kind of regulatory and promoting

[1:39:06] perspective will be really important to

[1:39:08] have you guys in those conversations. I

[1:39:10] mean, you guys are having a little bit

[1:39:12] of a family feud inside of DNR about

[1:39:14] that. um you know between your water

[1:39:17] rights and and doggum and um you know

[1:39:20] unfortunately I got in the middle of

[1:39:21] that during the last session and got

[1:39:22] yelled at and no [cough]

[1:39:25] um [clears throat] but I mean that that

[1:39:26] is going to be an ongoing issue you know

[1:39:28] I mean when you're getting into

[1:39:29] geothermal operations when you're

[1:39:30] getting into you know deep brine

[1:39:32] resources and other things like that

[1:39:33] where you know is this a geothermal

[1:39:36] operation is this a water production is

[1:39:38] this a mineral operation um I mean all

[1:39:40] those things are going to get mixed up

[1:39:42] and I think that you know your

[1:39:44] perspective active on that and also

[1:39:45] being able to figure out you know where

[1:39:47] you can get into that discussion and

[1:39:49] where you have to stay out of it

[1:39:50] internally will be important.

[1:39:52] >> Yeah, thank you. There's a there's an

[1:39:54] internal DNR energy collaborating

[1:39:57] council that meets once a month and

[1:39:59] those those discussions do happen with

[1:40:02] that group. So know that we're engaging

[1:40:05] internally at DNR on that. Um, but I do

[1:40:09] think that the geothermal development

[1:40:12] potential is happening pretty rapidly. I

[1:40:14] think you probably saw Rotherm's

[1:40:16] announcement, you know, what they're

[1:40:18] planning on doing. Um, so thanks for the

[1:40:21] heads up on that. Um,

[1:40:23] >> and and I think that there's ways to

[1:40:25] deal with all of that. I mean, I don't

[1:40:26] think that, you know, especially in

[1:40:28] today's world, that, you know, an

[1:40:29] operation needs to be just one thing. I

[1:40:31] mean, it doesn't just need to be

[1:40:32] geothermal or doesn't just need to be

[1:40:34] oil and gas.

[1:40:35] >> Maybe all of the above.

[1:40:39] Well, and and even produced water. I

[1:40:41] mean, you know, I think that with

[1:40:42] produced water, I mean, you know, the

[1:40:43] fact that a lot of my guys, the only way

[1:40:45] they can water [clears throat] is to

[1:40:46] bless you, the only way they can deal

[1:40:48] with water is just to, you know,

[1:40:49] reinject it back into the formations. I

[1:40:51] mean, you know, maybe that's good, maybe

[1:40:53] it's not because I mean, we're in a

[1:40:55] drought situation. So, maybe we can, you

[1:40:57] know, put that water to productive use,

[1:40:58] but then we run into a bunch of

[1:41:00] regulatory and, you know, rights issues

[1:41:02] that are problematic. So, I I think that

[1:41:04] we're going to have to have some very

[1:41:06] hard discussions about this over the

[1:41:07] next few years. And I just want to make

[1:41:09] sure that, you know, everybody has a

[1:41:11] seat at the table for those discussions.

[1:41:14] Um because, you know, I we can't just

[1:41:18] say, "Oh, you know, this is how we did

[1:41:20] water in 1896 and so we're going to keep

[1:41:22] doing it this way." Well,

[1:41:23] [clears throat]

[1:41:24] you know, that's probably not going to

[1:41:26] work for the future. When you have a lot

[1:41:29] of these operations, they're going to be

[1:41:31] everything. I mean, they're going to be,

[1:41:33] you know, energy operations and mineral

[1:41:35] operations and water operations and who

[1:41:37] knows what else. So, you know, we've got

[1:41:39] to make sure that the regulations are

[1:41:41] keeping up with the reality.

[1:41:43] >> You want to add anything about that?

[1:41:45] >> Um, just part of our role in that is to

[1:41:48] do the analysis to see what is in that

[1:41:51] water, whether it's from thermal and

[1:41:53] produced water. And so, we've done a lot

[1:41:56] of that in the past. We also have two

[1:41:59] rather large DOE budgeted projects

[1:42:01] related to core CN which is carbon ore

[1:42:06] and critical minerals. So it was the

[1:42:09] phase one was focused on coal and coal

[1:42:12] adjacent strata. But phase two, which is

[1:42:14] going to be starting here soon um in

[1:42:18] Colorado Plateau area, but also in Quest

[1:42:20] Desert, is much more broadly defined.

[1:42:24] Part of that new definition is going to

[1:42:26] include produced water. We did a little

[1:42:29] bit of sampling of produced waters for

[1:42:31] Corsium phase one and that data is now

[1:42:34] out there, but we'll have an opportunity

[1:42:36] to do a lot more. Um, and with now the

[1:42:39] West Desert as part of the area of

[1:42:42] interest, that'll include geothermal

[1:42:45] grinds. Like I said, we we have kind of

[1:42:48] a baseline of this data, but we'll have

[1:42:50] the funding here soon over the next year

[1:42:52] to do a lot more

[1:42:55] put out a lot more data.

[1:42:56] >> That's somewhere where interfacing can

[1:42:58] help because operators don't want us to

[1:43:01] come sample water. So, it's also part of

[1:43:03] it too, right? Like we could probably do

[1:43:05] a lot more, but

[1:43:06] >> Huh. I mean the perception would be

[1:43:08] there to meet up and you know problems.

[1:43:10] >> Yeah. Well, that's it because everything

[1:43:11] we do we're going to make public, right?

[1:43:13] So then that's Yeah.

[1:43:16] >> So maybe that's somewhere that we can

[1:43:18] all all work together to make sure

[1:43:20] everyone's soothed and getting getting

[1:43:22] the good data that can help with you

[1:43:25] know policy and managing resources but

[1:43:27] also

[1:43:29] >> shuffling operators. It was the same

[1:43:31] it's the same with mine waste, right?

[1:43:33] >> People can't decide if they want us to

[1:43:34] come tell us there's things in it or

[1:43:35] not. can't make up. I know John Basel

[1:43:38] the previous director at dogam he was

[1:43:41] very interested in produced water

[1:43:43] putting it to beneficial use but in the

[1:43:46] end the data that they had and for my

[1:43:48] experience almost all of it is the

[1:43:50] quality does not allow any the highest

[1:43:53] beneficial use is putting it back in to

[1:43:55] keep the reservoir pressurized

[1:43:58] or your you know

[1:44:00] >> but and I would say there's this is

[1:44:02] where like the mine center might be one

[1:44:03] of these things where it can really help

[1:44:05] because there is all of these leaps and

[1:44:07] bounds being made with that DL

[1:44:09] technology. Well, and not just so that's

[1:44:12] specific to lithium, but basically these

[1:44:13] ionic meshes that you put water through

[1:44:16] and with the different size of the mesh.

[1:44:19] I'm like I don't know, but um there's

[1:44:22] all sorts of advances in like the

[1:44:25] different ways that we can do extraction

[1:44:27] from water. So that's you know one of

[1:44:29] the areas that hopefully that

[1:44:31] metallergical interfacing and chemical

[1:44:32] engineering can really maybe help with

[1:44:34] that. And I know it's like it's also

[1:44:36] super variable produced waters all over

[1:44:38] the place.

[1:44:38] >> Yeah. That I think we we talked for a

[1:44:40] long time about trying to do a really

[1:44:42] big push on produced water studies and

[1:44:44] then ultimately like it was like they're

[1:44:46] captured differently that like it's just

[1:44:48] it was

[1:44:48] >> there's a lot being used for track water

[1:44:51] now some drill water. But that's as far

[1:44:53] as we've gotten

[1:44:55] >> which is awesome beneficial.

[1:44:56] >> Yeah.

[1:44:57] compared to compared to using farmers

[1:44:59] water. This that's a that's a I mean

[1:45:01] you're to avoid taking

[1:45:04] >> drinking water and agricultural quality

[1:45:06] waters and putting them in the ground.

[1:45:08] >> Yeah. So it is a big step up.

[1:45:12] >> I'm sure there's more.

[1:45:13] One last thing is um on the workforce

[1:45:16] services side um you know so I do oil

[1:45:18] and gas and where we've had a lot of

[1:45:20] success is we're in the schools pretty

[1:45:23] constantly and the one thing is the

[1:45:25] schools I work with a lot we don't get

[1:45:27] the mining industry in uh we don't get

[1:45:29] you guys on thesis or field trips or

[1:45:32] presentations and it just takes a lot of

[1:45:34] little touches just to get the students

[1:45:35] aware that that's where it's at to get

[1:45:37] them to take that emphasis and circle

[1:45:39] that to where that correction so you

[1:45:41] know uh we

[1:45:43] interface and somehow get you guys in

[1:45:44] there. I think that would be good for

[1:45:46] everybody.

[1:45:47] >> Yeah, I appreciate that. Yeah, we we do

[1:45:50] have, you know, our mining ambassador

[1:45:52] program, but I mean part of the

[1:45:53] challenge we have is that I mean we're a

[1:45:55] lot more spread out than the oil and gas

[1:45:57] industry in the state. So, I mean, you

[1:45:58] know, we're in so many different parts

[1:46:00] of the state and um and one of the

[1:46:04] things I think that oil and gas has done

[1:46:05] a little bit better than us is that I

[1:46:07] mean, they've also gotten a lot of their

[1:46:08] service companies involved with that.

[1:46:09] Whereas on the mining side, it's

[1:46:11] traditionally been the operators only

[1:46:12] that have really done that. And I don't

[1:46:14] know why that is, but that's something

[1:46:16] where we need

[1:46:16] >> We'll have 80 service companies or 80

[1:46:18] different opportunities for touches

[1:46:20] where of course

[1:46:21] >> Jennif's huge. If they don't have it,

[1:46:23] they might not get that touch.

[1:46:24] >> Exactly. So yeah, we need to figure out

[1:46:26] a way to get our service companies as

[1:46:28] involved in the the education touch

[1:46:30] points. But yeah, in some of the you

[1:46:32] know the rural parts of our state that

[1:46:34] has been a little bit more challenging

[1:46:36] just because you know again you don't

[1:46:37] have that like huge concentration of

[1:46:40] activity like you do in the oil and gas

[1:46:41] industry where it's you know vast

[1:46:43] majority of it's just right there in the

[1:46:44] basin. So um one thing I did want to go

[1:46:48] back on the produced water side. I mean

[1:46:50] one thing that's been a challenge for us

[1:46:51] and you know a couple years ago they

[1:46:53] have a produced water bill that was run

[1:46:54] for oil and gas and originally there was

[1:46:57] a companion bill on mining. we decided

[1:47:00] to hold on the mining side because there

[1:47:01] were some you know particular things for

[1:47:03] oil and gas that were it was just making

[1:47:05] it a little overly complicated to do

[1:47:07] both of them at the same time but then

[1:47:09] you know the state water engineer kind

[1:47:12] of got buyers remorse about the produced

[1:47:14] water bill and so we were never able to

[1:47:16] run ours um and so I mean these are kind

[1:47:19] of things where again I mean you've got

[1:47:20] different sort of regulatory you know

[1:47:23] something that's totally different on

[1:47:24] oil and gas than it is on the mining

[1:47:26] side even though I mean ultimately it's

[1:47:27] the same principle right that what do

[1:47:29] you do with this water that you

[1:47:30] inevitably produce as a result of your

[1:47:32] you know your activities your production

[1:47:34] activities and so um yeah these are the

[1:47:37] kind of things where again I think you

[1:47:38] know over the next few years we're going

[1:47:39] to have to have some really hard

[1:47:41] conversations about how we deal with

[1:47:43] these type of things and um you know and

[1:47:45] I I think to your point earlier Rich I

[1:47:47] think that you know as technology

[1:47:49] develops and you know Stephen was

[1:47:50] talking about you know there's going to

[1:47:52] be more and more uses there's going to

[1:47:53] be more minerals that you can extract

[1:47:55] there's going to be you know you can

[1:47:57] clean up the water better you can find,

[1:47:58] you know, new ways to to recycle. But, I

[1:48:00] mean, even water reuse is really

[1:48:02] controversial. And so, I mean, like,

[1:48:04] these are a lot of conversations that

[1:48:05] we're going to have to have over the

[1:48:06] next few years. And, um, you know, we're

[1:48:10] going to need to make sure that all the

[1:48:12] experts are at the table for that

[1:48:13] because, um, you know, that hasn't been

[1:48:16] the case. Um, you know, with a lot of

[1:48:18] these bills that have been earned over

[1:48:19] the past few um, legislative sessions. I

[1:48:22] mean they've been very narrowly focused

[1:48:24] to kind of provide a you know either fix

[1:48:26] a problem or provide a benefit for a

[1:48:27] very sort of narrow sector of you know

[1:48:29] the geothermal industry or whatever the

[1:48:31] case is and you know we're not dealing

[1:48:33] with some of these bigger issues and um

[1:48:35] you know we've got to deal with them but

[1:48:37] also like want to get yelled at by Mike

[1:48:39] McKill. So um anyway

[1:48:42] >> then that goes back to like this

[1:48:43] cross-disciplinary approach to workforce

[1:48:46] development because if more of whatever

[1:48:48] field you're looking at is aware and has

[1:48:50] had a little bit of training in other

[1:48:51] fields around them. It's easier to look

[1:48:52] for these crossover and improvement.

[1:49:00] » I hope that was correct for us. So,

[1:49:04] thank you so much for for taking the

[1:49:07] time to come to get to know our board a

[1:49:10] little bit more. You're a huge asset for

[1:49:12] us and to talk with us about how we can

[1:49:15] continue to support the mining industry

[1:49:19] and you know the value of our data

[1:49:22] hopefully. So, and we have a big team

[1:49:25] here that's doing a lot

[1:49:27] >> um on the mining side. So,

[1:49:31] keep going on all that.

[1:49:32] >> Yeah. Thank you guys. Thanks for what

[1:49:34] you do. And yeah, if there's anything

[1:49:35] where again we can

[1:49:37] >> be helpful and um you know, we're we

[1:49:41] love to partner with our state state

[1:49:43] partners and our uh just here to make

[1:49:47] things work as well as they can. So,

[1:49:49] thank you.

[1:49:51] >> You missed the very introductory part of

[1:49:52] our meeting. We did introduce um in

[1:49:54] addition to our mineral staff, we have

[1:49:56] quite a bit of outside funding that has

[1:49:58] come in um through staff and her team

[1:50:01] for for minerals exploration work. Um

[1:50:05] and uh there's even a couple other

[1:50:07] larger projects out there. I think

[1:50:09] you're aware of the BHP explore program

[1:50:10] that Steph's been part of. So we did add

[1:50:13] another minerals geologist to our team.

[1:50:15] So we're doing the good work over here.

[1:50:18] That's great. So, can I ask is that

[1:50:20] funny mostly coming from industry or is

[1:50:22] that

[1:50:23] >> Yeah. Do you want me to run through it?

[1:50:24] I don't have any slides, but I can run

[1:50:25] through also for the board if anyone has

[1:50:27] heard of um I think it's in this survey

[1:50:30] note. Does anyone know? We had we ran an

[1:50:32] article about BHP explore and I think

[1:50:34] it's in the survey.

[1:50:34] >> It's in the survey notes that's coming

[1:50:36] out next month.

[1:50:37] >> Okay. Yeah. So, there will be there will

[1:50:40] be an article about this in survey

[1:50:41] notes, [clears throat] but um so my

[1:50:43] project geologist Jim McY and I were in

[1:50:45] this program called BHP explore. So BHP

[1:50:47] is the largest mining company in the

[1:50:48] world. They have what's called an

[1:50:50] accelerator program that's traditionally

[1:50:52] targeted at junior mining companies to

[1:50:54] take essentially a good idea and make it

[1:50:56] investable. And just out of a moonshot,

[1:50:58] I actually applied for us. Um and just

[1:51:01] lo and behold, we've got in. And so

[1:51:02] we're the first government entity,

[1:51:04] academic entity, anything other than

[1:51:06] essentially a junior mining company were

[1:51:07] the first ones in. And so the way that

[1:51:09] we've structured this is focusing on our

[1:51:12] actual um foundational data

[1:51:14] infrastructure. So all the data that you

[1:51:16] need to then take and do your job. Our

[1:51:18] focus is on trying to build those

[1:51:20] foundations for Utah. So we've got a

[1:51:22] couple different themes that are very

[1:51:23] like our nitty-gritty geology like

[1:51:24] intrusive base maps and fertility and

[1:51:26] architecture mapping. So we have, you

[1:51:28] know, it's our kind of stuff, but that

[1:51:29] allows us to build the data foundations

[1:51:31] that we need to then create the products

[1:51:33] that can inform just a basic

[1:51:34] prospectivity map for the state and

[1:51:36] things like that. So it's a half a

[1:51:37] million dollar um grant. We're wrapping

[1:51:40] up the formal part of it.

[1:51:41] >> Liverpool one.

[1:51:43] >> Yeah. So we have a they are the nerdy

[1:51:45] geology deliverables. So we will be

[1:51:47] doing we're doing a regional intrusive

[1:51:49] sampling campaign where we're running

[1:51:51] lithogochemistry, geocchronology, trace

[1:51:53] on geiochemistry and zircon and madenium

[1:51:56] isotopes. So that helps with creatonic

[1:51:58] isotopic mapping age like age and

[1:52:01] fertility assessments across the state.

[1:52:02] So that the whole point of doing that if

[1:52:05] we take all the dirty like nerdy geology

[1:52:07] speak what we're trying to do is area

[1:52:09] reduction for expiration. So we don't if

[1:52:11] an expiration company's coming in, we

[1:52:12] don't want them to have to figure out

[1:52:14] where in the whole state they want to

[1:52:15] pick up ground. We want them to know

[1:52:17] like this 20% of the state is the most

[1:52:19] perspective for the system that you're

[1:52:21] looking for. Um but then we need a lot

[1:52:23] of thin geology to do those assessments.

[1:52:26] So our focus is on de-risisking

[1:52:28] exploration um attracting investment and

[1:52:31] reducing exploration area in the state.

[1:52:33] And when we also reduce the exploration

[1:52:35] area, we can start to integrate above

[1:52:37] ground risk as well risk as well. So we

[1:52:39] can start taking out areas that are

[1:52:40] overly sensitive for environmental

[1:52:42] reasons or for water reasons. So that

[1:52:44] allows us to also promote the

[1:52:45] responsible stewardship of resource

[1:52:47] development. So um our deliverables are

[1:52:50] things like an architecture with the

[1:52:51] spirit map and this regional fertility

[1:52:54] study and a prospectivity map and a

[1:52:55] preservation potential. So those are

[1:52:56] kind of the deliverables that we're

[1:52:58] doing. Everything we're doing will be

[1:53:00] made public. There's a one-year window

[1:53:01] of confidentiality. That is the benefit

[1:53:03] that the HP is getting out of it, but

[1:53:04] overall I would say

[1:53:06] we're getting a lot out of it. Um, so

[1:53:09] yeah, the formal part of the program,

[1:53:11] Jim and I are closing that out actually

[1:53:12] in just a month, but our project will

[1:53:14] actually run through July of next year.

[1:53:17] >> So half a million dollar.

[1:53:20] >> Yeah.

[1:53:21] >> But it will let let us do, you know,

[1:53:24] traditionally we've kind of been able to

[1:53:25] do a lot of postage stamp work and

[1:53:27] trying to get little areas. This is

[1:53:29] letting us do much larger statewide

[1:53:31] assessments and compilation so that we

[1:53:33] can build essentially better products to

[1:53:36] attract exploration and investment into

[1:53:38] the state. So

[1:53:39] >> do you have a feel

[1:53:42] why BHP

[1:53:45] selected the Utah Geological Survey? I

[1:53:48] mean is it because of the resources in

[1:53:50] the survey or the perspective

[1:53:53] terrains geological terrains of Utah or

[1:53:56] bodies or both? Yeah, I think it was

[1:53:59] multi-pronged. I think there was kind of

[1:54:02] a lot of curiosity about how this type

[1:54:04] of public part public private

[1:54:05] partnership could actually work. Um, I

[1:54:07] mean, I do think BHP works very hard to

[1:54:09] be a good community member within the

[1:54:11] mining industry. So, there was that

[1:54:13] aspect kind of the innovative aspect to

[1:54:15] it. There is recognition of the skills

[1:54:18] and the depth of knowledge and um,

[1:54:22] both me and my team like we we deliver

[1:54:24] at a pretty high level and I think we're

[1:54:25] known to deliver at a pretty high level.

[1:54:27] So I will say there was c certainly some

[1:54:29] reputational uh support that went into

[1:54:31] that but then also yeah geologic tree

[1:54:33] and we are kind of only working on the

[1:54:35] western half of the state right now. Um

[1:54:37] but the kind of the skills that we're

[1:54:39] learning because we're getting a lot of

[1:54:41] upskilling as well as far as like how

[1:54:42] they look at a mineral system from you

[1:54:44] know mantle to deposit scale and things

[1:54:46] like that and what kind of data we need

[1:54:47] to collect and how we integrate all

[1:54:49] that. So we're getting a lot of value

[1:54:50] out of it and we'll be able to take that

[1:54:52] to the rest of the state with different

[1:54:54] types of mineral systems. So um right

[1:54:56] now it's very poor free offer focused

[1:54:58] but yeah pulling stuff out into other

[1:55:00] systems as as we're able ultimately are

[1:55:03] still government but we do still not

[1:55:04] work as fast as industry but we're

[1:55:07] getting skills.

[1:55:10] >> Do you want to talk about SEG maybe

[1:55:12] while Brian's here too?

[1:55:13] >> Yeah I know

[1:55:16] looking at who might actually be going

[1:55:17] to SCG

[1:55:19] >> probably.

[1:55:20] >> Yay. Okay so SCG is the society of

[1:55:22] economic geologists. This is an

[1:55:24] international organization um that's

[1:55:26] very technically focused. There's that

[1:55:28] tends to work more on the downstream has

[1:55:30] all your engineers has things like that.

[1:55:32] This is more upstream and it is very

[1:55:33] geoscience centric. So the international

[1:55:36] annual meeting is being held here in

[1:55:38] Salt Lake. I do have the privilege of

[1:55:40] being chair of this conference. So um

[1:55:43] yeah, we've got a lot of UGS impact

[1:55:45] going on. Darlene is going to come give

[1:55:47] some opening comments for us when we

[1:55:49] open the whole thing. It'll be at the

[1:55:50] Salt Powell Center from September 30th

[1:55:52] to October 3rd. Mike's going to run a

[1:55:54] field trip whether he wants to or not.

[1:55:56] [laughter]

[1:55:56] I put it on his calendar about a year

[1:55:58] ago. So, he could tell how many people

[1:56:00] are expected to come. We are currently

[1:56:03] trending above registration numbers from

[1:56:06] last year, which was the record setting

[1:56:07] year of attendance. So, I always felt

[1:56:10] like if we hit a thousand, we'd be doing

[1:56:12] great. But right now, they had 1,200

[1:56:14] last year, and right now our

[1:56:15] registration numbers are trending above

[1:56:17] them. So, we will see. Um, we have some

[1:56:20] really cool uh innovative things. We

[1:56:22] actually sold out our core shack, which

[1:56:24] SCG has one never had a core shack and

[1:56:26] two never managed to sell it out. So,

[1:56:28] we've sold out our core shack. We've

[1:56:29] sold out our exhibits. We've sold out

[1:56:31] our field trips. We've sold out our

[1:56:32] short courses. Um, yeah, we're doing

[1:56:35] some we're doing a rock auction. If any

[1:56:38] anybody has some good geological samples

[1:56:40] that they wouldn't mind donating, we are

[1:56:42] running a rock auction for a scholarship

[1:56:44] fundraiser. So, if you have any nice

[1:56:45] samples, I would

[1:56:46] >> What are you looking for? just things

[1:56:48] that are nice, high quality rock and

[1:56:50] minerals that something that someone

[1:56:51] would want to bid on in a silent

[1:56:52] auction, just that type of thing. Um, so

[1:56:56] yeah, it should be a really good time.

[1:57:00] >> Maybe you could add anything to our

[1:57:01] members at that time rock.

[1:57:04] >> Oh, I've been trying to tell everyone

[1:57:06] that I possibly could. I can send you

[1:57:08] our little graphic.

[1:57:10] >> Yeah, we send it with our newsletter.

[1:57:12] >> Oh, those are donations. So

[1:57:14] >> yeah, you can [clears throat] they can

[1:57:16] just come to us like we'll we'll manage

[1:57:18] getting them to

[1:57:18] >> That's a great idea. And that money

[1:57:20] raises scholarship.

[1:57:22] >> Yep. Scholarship. So research grants and

[1:57:24] conference attendance.

[1:57:25] >> That's a great idea.

[1:57:27] >> Yeah. And Steph's the chair of this. So

[1:57:29] it's kind of a big deal.

[1:57:30] >> Yeah. It should be really fun. It's very

[1:57:32] it's, you know, it's very upstream but

[1:57:34] also for me my argument is always well

[1:57:36] the downstream doesn't exist without the

[1:57:38] upstream. The upstream tends to be a

[1:57:39] little smaller because it's a little

[1:57:40] more focused, a little more technical.

[1:57:42] We don't have as many oper uh like

[1:57:44] service providers. Um but again, if we

[1:57:48] don't do our job well, there's nothing

[1:57:49] that comes after us.

[1:57:51] >> It's great to have in Utah. So that

[1:57:52] gives Utah's, you know, exploration.

[1:57:56] >> A lot of them are exhibiting and West is

[1:57:58] exhibiting. BCM is exhibiting. I almost

[1:58:01] got Hawk Resources, but I think they

[1:58:02] missed out and we sold out. Tenkick is

[1:58:04] exhibiting. Rio's exhibiting. Like

[1:58:06] they're all um yeah, they're all even

[1:58:09] the little ones, they're all showing up.

[1:58:10] Liberty's exhibiting. Yeah,

[1:58:13] >> survival's exhibiting. Yeah.

[1:58:20] » Well, yeah. Send me the the graphic.

[1:58:22] I'll point that out with our newsletter.

[1:58:23] >> Thank you.

[1:58:24] >> I love to see if we can get some samples

[1:58:26] for that. And then if there's anything

[1:58:27] else that we can do to support that from

[1:58:29] the industry side, love to

[1:58:31] >> love to help with that. So,

[1:58:33] >> for sure.

[1:58:35] >> Great.

[1:58:35] >> I assume you're working with you a bunch

[1:58:37] on that, too. not as much because we

[1:58:39] don't have an economic geologist. I

[1:58:41] think Lauren Burnhar is gonna come. Um I

[1:58:43] think she's sending a couple students.

[1:58:44] But um we one thing I will so actually y

[1:58:48] going back to this workforce

[1:58:49] conversation. I worked my tail off to

[1:58:52] get SCG to provide travel support for

[1:58:54] undergrads specifically because SCG this

[1:58:56] is one of my things with SCG they

[1:58:58] traditionally focus very heavily at the

[1:58:59] graduate level and that is too late.

[1:59:01] We've already missed a huge part of the

[1:59:03] workforce pipeline if we're focusing at

[1:59:04] the graduate level. So I worked super

[1:59:07] hard to get undergraduates travel

[1:59:09] support this year. We sent it out to all

[1:59:11] the university we like in the US, you

[1:59:13] know, Arizona, California, all of our

[1:59:15] Utah universities, just everyone. We got

[1:59:17] six applications from the US.

[1:59:21] >> So when I when we say this workforce

[1:59:23] problem is hard and like we're try like

[1:59:26] so you know and and so then that's gonna

[1:59:29] I think everyone liked the idea enough

[1:59:31] that it will still have traction to go

[1:59:32] forward. I think they're going to take

[1:59:33] the program that I built and use it in

[1:59:35] future conferences and obviously there's

[1:59:36] been some lessons learned but um yeah

[1:59:39] the the workforce component is is hard

[1:59:42] and we're trying but it is it is a

[1:59:43] challenge.

[1:59:52] » Thank you so much for your time. Thanks

[1:59:54] for coming to visit us. It's really nice

[1:59:56] to see you here and I appreciate your

[1:59:58] time and your preparation for this. So

[2:00:00] we'll just keep the conversation going.

[2:00:02] I know when I put Brian and you know

[2:00:04] Brian and staff got together for lunch

[2:00:05] and I I really just got out of the

[2:00:07] conversation and took notes they had a

[2:00:08] lot to talk about. It's very engaged. So

[2:00:11] I really appreciate that. So thanks for

[2:00:13] all you're doing.

[2:00:14] >> Oh thank you guys. And one thing too

[2:00:16] again if there's anything that we can do

[2:00:17] as industry to to help and um you know I

[2:00:20] know it's only August so it seems crazy

[2:00:22] to be talking about the legislative

[2:00:24] session but it'll be here before before

[2:00:26] we know it. Um, so yeah, I mean I'd love

[2:00:28] to to have some conversations and if we

[2:00:30] could be helpful as you guys are putting

[2:00:32] your requests for um, you know, for for

[2:00:34] budgets and if you know end up with any

[2:00:36] RFAS or anything like that. I mean, we

[2:00:38] ask for a lot from the legislature, but

[2:00:40] we don't tend to ask for a lot of money.

[2:00:42] Um, and so, you know, if we can support

[2:00:44] things like that, you know, especially

[2:00:46] appropriations requests, like that does

[2:00:48] tend to have an impact because again,

[2:00:49] we're just not in there, you know,

[2:00:52] begging for money every year like most

[2:00:53] people. So, we'd love to do that. what

[2:00:56] to make sure you guys have the resources

[2:00:57] you need both, you know, for your mobile

[2:01:00] operations, but also for these kind of

[2:01:01] projects that you're you're taking on.

[2:01:04] Um, I mean, I would love to see maybe

[2:01:06] there could be a state man, you know,

[2:01:07] that BHP project and just let you, you

[2:01:09] know, expand that. And um, anyway, I

[2:01:13] would love to to be helpful wherever we

[2:01:14] can on the on the legislator side.

[2:01:17] >> We should have talked a week ago. Our

[2:01:19] building block request [laughter]

[2:01:21] yesterday. We'll get you next time.

[2:01:23] >> No, it's fine. Well, the The problem is

[2:01:26] in submitting your building broker

[2:01:27] prices getting, you know,

[2:01:28] >> getting it into the governor's budget.

[2:01:30] But that's okay. We we got we got a

[2:01:32] little leverage. I think

[2:01:34] >> we should recognize the the RFA that we

[2:01:37] got a couple years ago

[2:01:40] 400,000 which I'm sure you helped with

[2:01:42] and we appreciate and we love RFAS

[2:01:45] because they're a little bit easier for

[2:01:46] us.

[2:01:47] >> Yeah. line [clears throat] waste

[2:01:48] inventory actually had a little bit of

[2:01:50] seed funding from USGS but we [snorts]

[2:01:53] as part of this like high priority min

[2:01:56] that went into

[2:01:57] >> yeah let's follow up and send that to

[2:01:59] Brian also

[2:02:00] >> yeah I know I'm sorry there's actually

[2:02:04] » yeah I'd love to help with that I mean

[2:02:06] again RFAS and things like that but I

[2:02:08] mean if you guys are finding problems

[2:02:10] with your you know budget stuff like

[2:02:13] please let me know I mean we can't

[2:02:14] always impact that but we

[2:02:17] I think we don't have a lot of success

[2:02:19] impacting what goes into the governor's

[2:02:20] budget, but we have more success if

[2:02:22] there, you know, are things that maybe

[2:02:23] got missed in the governor's budget and

[2:02:25] you guys can't talk about them anymore,

[2:02:26] but

[2:02:27] >> Okay.

[2:02:27] >> Governor can't fire me, so I can still

[2:02:30] [laughter]

[2:02:30] >> I like that our legislative finance

[2:02:32] analyst, Lacy, is here too. So, she's

[2:02:35] probably listening here. So, we will

[2:02:37] continue that conversation. That's a

[2:02:39] great offer. And thank you very much.

[2:02:41] That is some place, those are, you know,

[2:02:43] two different tracks where you could

[2:02:44] really help us out a lot online. Yeah.

[2:02:46] And you were joking that it's August.

[2:02:48] It's too early to think about the

[2:02:49] legislative session. Aren't you thinking

[2:02:50] about the next legislative session? And

[2:02:52] I think, you know, there's some work

[2:02:54] about road mapping what a strategic plan

[2:02:56] for mineral resources in Utah looks like

[2:02:58] and kind of dovetailing how geological

[2:03:00] research works with the mine center,

[2:03:02] works with all the other initiatives.

[2:03:03] And I think if we work on that, you

[2:03:06] know, we're we're we're very lucky to be

[2:03:08] well funded at the moment. We've had a

[2:03:10] lot of luck with outside grants with no

[2:03:12] match outside grants and trying to find

[2:03:14] and you know we are still working out

[2:03:16] the ends of the RFA but I think uh in

[2:03:19] the next following session I think we

[2:03:21] could maybe put forward some really bold

[2:03:23] ideas about how to truly move the needle

[2:03:25] on what's needed to attract investment

[2:03:27] to the state. Do some big ideas

[2:03:30] >> and and I think one more area is

[2:03:31] EarthMRI

[2:03:33] um is up for review at the federal

[2:03:36] level. It's a really important program

[2:03:39] for Utah. We're I think we're in a good

[2:03:41] place with our fMRI, but for many other

[2:03:44] states, it is a crucial piece of

[2:03:46] collecting, you know, information over

[2:03:49] wider areas. It really helps, you know,

[2:03:51] kind of zero in on relevant areas um for

[2:03:54] exploration and that kind of de-risking

[2:03:56] piece of it. So, you'll hear about that

[2:03:58] and, you know, you can help advocate for

[2:04:00] that federal level. That's really

[2:04:02] important.

[2:04:02] >> Yeah. I mean, have you guys talked to

[2:04:04] Congressman Malloyy's office about that?

[2:04:06] I spoke with Malloy's office last week,

[2:04:08] the one Utah sign. They had a couple of

[2:04:09] coordinators there and they we ran

[2:04:11] through the last five years of Earth MRI

[2:04:13] projects for UGS and what we used them

[2:04:15] for. So I I think they understood the

[2:04:17] significance that we see that the

[2:04:20] program.

[2:04:20] >> Well, yeah, I'd love to coordinate on

[2:04:21] that because we do a lot of work. I

[2:04:22] mean, she's she's on material

[2:04:24] appropriations and so I mean she

[2:04:25] probably has the best um you know, the

[2:04:28] best opportunity to affect that. Um, and

[2:04:31] she's obviously, you know, she's the

[2:04:32] daughter of a minor. So, I mean, she she

[2:04:34] gets the importance of uh, you know,

[2:04:37] this industry and and everything you

[2:04:38] need to support it. So, I think you can

[2:04:40] have some really good inroads there. And

[2:04:42] again, we'd love to help, you know, just

[2:04:43] sort of second whatever you pitch to

[2:04:46] them.

[2:04:47] Whatever you pitch to her office, again,

[2:04:49] we do a lot of work with all our

[2:04:51] delegation offices. if there's things

[2:04:53] where we can be helpful there as well.

[2:04:54] If there's you know federal issues that

[2:04:56] you know we can just give a you know an

[2:04:59] amen to as you guys are advocating there

[2:05:03] potential doors open happy to help with

[2:05:05] that.

[2:05:05] >> Be excellent. I'm looking forward to

[2:05:07] talking. I think we have a lot of ground

[2:05:08] to cover.

[2:05:09] >> Yeah. Mike's going to be in DC at the

[2:05:11] end of next month. The American

[2:05:12] Association of State Geologists has a

[2:05:15] twice yearly legislative liaison, you

[2:05:18] know, outing. And so Mike's going to be

[2:05:21] out there actually for the Earth MRI

[2:05:22] workshop. It's overlaps with AASG's

[2:05:25] legislative leaison. So we're going to

[2:05:27] hit up all of our congressional

[2:05:29] representatives. Um so you know maybe a

[2:05:32] letter of support or something somewhere

[2:05:33] along the way from from your association

[2:05:35] would be great.

[2:05:36] >> Yeah, I'd love to do that.

[2:05:38] >> Thank you board that when we talk about

[2:05:40] EarthM there's there's funding that

[2:05:41] comes directly to UGS which I think

[2:05:43] would be in excess of 1 million

[2:05:47] generally no match funding. So we've

[2:05:49] brought in a lot of direct funding, but

[2:05:50] also Earth MRI has led fed federal data

[2:05:53] acquisitions over the state exceeding

[2:05:55] $10 million worth of new data as far as

[2:05:58] geoysics, LAR, hyperspectral. Um I know

[2:06:01] I'm forgetting one other one. I can't

[2:06:03] remember what the other one is. There's

[2:06:04] actually a new Aeromag and a rod survey

[2:06:06] that was just released over southwest

[2:06:08] Utah. We'd like to go look at that. It's

[2:06:10] called the iron access survey. So it's

[2:06:12] great.

[2:06:13] >> It's not just about the money that comes

[2:06:14] into UGS specifically. It is about money

[2:06:16] and data over Utah as a whole.

[2:06:22] would say the the only small downside to

[2:06:25] Earth MRI is it's very metals focused,

[2:06:27] critical minerals focused and um talking

[2:06:31] with Andrew Rupy, we're seeing the need

[2:06:33] to look at more industrial minerals and

[2:06:36] there's not a good source of funding to

[2:06:39] [clears throat] study industrial

[2:06:40] minerals and so Andrew and I have been

[2:06:43] talking about that and trying to figure

[2:06:45] out ways for maybe the state to get more

[2:06:47] involved in funding minerals or this

[2:06:50] aggregate although

[2:06:56] Have you uh I mean has there been any

[2:06:58] discussion with USGS about you know sort

[2:07:01] of shifting some of these things to be

[2:07:03] more critical mineral focus versus just

[2:07:05] kind of hard rock I mean there's

[2:07:08] obviously a lot I mean

[2:07:10] >> and other things aren't on there but I

[2:07:11] mean you know potsh and some of the

[2:07:13] other industrial minerals

[2:07:15] >> you could do pot [laughter]

[2:07:18] >> yeah so it it is explicit to critical is

[2:07:21] critical It's not limited to hard rock

[2:07:23] resources and Andrew's done several

[2:07:24] studies on um phosphate

[2:07:28] >> uh I think that was the major

[2:07:30] >> phosphate

[2:07:31] >> chlorine yeah

[2:07:33] >> but yeah we're thinking more about

[2:07:36] aggregates a lot things that fall

[2:07:39] outside the realm of earth we're having

[2:07:41] more trouble finding

[2:07:43] >> yeah and their mineral resources program

[2:07:45] from the USGS like Sarah Rker she was

[2:07:47] starting to make noise in that

[2:07:51] two years ago, but then I think was just

[2:07:54] that yeah, things went crazy. So I don't

[2:07:56] I would

[2:07:58] >> we'll be having those conversations with

[2:08:00] USGS about pushing Earth more into

[2:08:04] desert minerals, but we'll see where it

[2:08:06] goes.

[2:08:08] >> Yeah. And I mean the the aggregate stuff

[2:08:10] is a little tricky on the state side

[2:08:12] just because I mean you know they're

[2:08:14] obviously they're I don't have any

[2:08:15] aggregate members. um you know they

[2:08:18] because they're regulated a little bit

[2:08:20] differently they haven't traditionally

[2:08:21] been part of the mining association they

[2:08:23] have kind of their own coalition

[2:08:25] >> um so yeah I don't have any of the

[2:08:28] aggregate producers and one of the

[2:08:29] challenges we have honestly is that

[2:08:32] >> I mean politically like they'll the

[2:08:34] aggregate producers kind of try and do

[2:08:36] things for themselves and then mining

[2:08:37] gets you know traditional mining gets

[2:08:39] sucked into it and sometimes that's fine

[2:08:41] and other times we have to kind of like

[2:08:43] you know say hey you guys do your thing

[2:08:45] over here and we're going to do our

[2:08:46] thing over year. So, um I mean that's

[2:08:49] another thing I think over the next few

[2:08:50] years we'll probably have to have those

[2:08:52] conversations as to whether aggregate

[2:08:53] needs to be, you know, brought it under

[2:08:55] kind of full state control. Um but I

[2:08:58] mean right now they kind of like their

[2:09:00] weird little, you know, we have some

[2:09:02] state stuff and some local stuff and you

[2:09:04] know, I don't know. I just I don't know

[2:09:06] if that's sustainable long term, but and

[2:09:09] we're going to have another fight this

[2:09:10] year at Balon. Actually, I don't know if

[2:09:12] you guys heard about that. The whole

[2:09:13] Daniels Canyon thing that's happening.

[2:09:16] um like there's going to be a bill run

[2:09:18] on that that you know basically goes

[2:09:20] back and looks at that geological trend

[2:09:21] language that we have

[2:09:24] that's that's how they're justifying

[2:09:26] that that mind and I mean it's

[2:09:28] incredibly controversial and not just

[2:09:30] you know in that community but I mean

[2:09:32] frankly in the industry because I've had

[2:09:34] conversations with my counterparts on

[2:09:36] the aggregate side and I mean they don't

[2:09:37] like it either but we've got to make

[2:09:40] sure that we figure out the right

[2:09:41] language to say okay you know how do we

[2:09:43] you know preserve the intent of this

[2:09:45] which is that you know you can follow

[2:09:47] those geological trends if you're you

[2:09:49] know chasing a gold vein or whatever the

[2:09:51] case is but this doesn't mean that if

[2:09:53] you you know have a mine in in you know

[2:09:55] Janola that you can then have a mine you

[2:09:58] know in peeper because it's the same

[2:10:01] geological trend. It's like yeah I don't

[2:10:03] know that that was really the intent of

[2:10:05] that that statue when it was you know

[2:10:07] created however many years ago that it

[2:10:09] was created. So, but we also want to

[2:10:11] make sure that it's, you know, you guys

[2:10:12] are helping to advise on that and we,

[2:10:14] you know, preserve as much of the

[2:10:16] functionality of that as we can, but

[2:10:18] also don't allow someone to say, "Hey,

[2:10:20] you know, you know, limestone is

[2:10:23] limestone, so I can open one."

[2:10:25] >> Right. I appreciate hearing your

[2:10:28] sensibility about that and offer to kind

[2:10:30] of collaborate on tweaking that so that

[2:10:33] it is appropriate

[2:10:36] >> for your industry as well. So, and this

[2:10:39] again something where we kind of get

[2:10:41] dragged into it and we don't want to see

[2:10:42] you know the that that benefit for our

[2:10:45] industry go away but you know I clearly

[2:10:47] I think this is something that most

[2:10:49] people can agree is an abuse that

[2:10:50] statute and so we need to figure out how

[2:10:52] to re that in without you know without

[2:10:56] taking away a benefit for people that

[2:10:59] want to use it the way it was intended

[2:11:01] to be used. So

[2:11:02] >> maybe that's something we can get ahead

[2:11:03] of prior to legislative session. We're we're trying we actually have a um

[2:11:09] we're going to be putting a meeting

[2:11:10] together with

[2:11:12] >> Okay.

[2:11:13] >> Well, we don't know exactly who the bill

[2:11:14] sponsor is going to be at this point.

[2:11:16] So, um but once we figure that out,

[2:11:18] we'll we'll get everybody together and

[2:11:21] talk through it. So,

[2:11:22] >> okay. Yeah, we're happy to contribute to

[2:11:24] that. We did just have something kind of

[2:11:26] passed through our office around that.

[2:11:28] So, we've got thoughts and can can

[2:11:31] contribute to that. So, all right. Thank

[2:11:33] you.

[2:11:35] Okay. Well, thank you guys.

[2:11:36] >> We turned Brian loose. Thank you so much

[2:11:38] for your time today. It's really great

[2:11:40] to have you here. Really appreciate you.

[2:11:43] >> Thank you.

[2:11:46] >> Why don't we take a break again and I'll

[2:11:48] get our uh the rest of our board meeting

[2:11:51] teed up. We're going to do financials

[2:11:53] next. So, we've got manager

[2:11:59] [laughter]

[2:28:33] Okay, so we're back on the record

[2:28:35] everyone. So at this point in our

[2:28:38] agenda, we'll move to our next item

[2:28:41] which is a financial update. So, uh, we

[2:28:45] close our year end at the end of June

[2:28:48] and begin our next fiscal year. Um, this

[2:28:52] is the time when our relatively new

[2:28:54] finance manager, Win Seymour, um, who's

[2:28:58] wasn't previously with the state, got to

[2:29:00] run through her first closeout,

[2:29:03] um, looking back at our annual, um, at

[2:29:07] everything over the year. and she's run

[2:29:09] a great report for you guys about where

[2:29:11] we stand um at the end of this fiscal

[2:29:14] year and how that te's us up for success

[2:29:17] for fiscal year 27. Um I just want to

[2:29:21] really hand a huge compliment to win.

[2:29:23] She's been a terrific asset for us. She

[2:29:26] was an amazing interview. Um and I think

[2:29:29] we're lucky to have her in UG. She's

[2:29:31] been a great asset to me and to our

[2:29:32] leadership team as is. Ben Zelin is

[2:29:36] gonna follow up with that with kind of a

[2:29:37] look on the contracts and sort of how we

[2:29:40] get our revenue and manage that side.

[2:29:42] But I'm gonna turn it over to W who's

[2:29:44] got a great story to tell you here. Let

[2:29:46] me make that slide.

[2:29:47] >> Perfect.

[2:29:50] >> So if you all recall back in April, um

[2:29:55] so just internal agenda, I'm going to

[2:29:57] walk through just a refresher on the

[2:29:59] funding architecture. So everybody have

[2:30:02] a sense of our funding source and then

[2:30:05] we'll go over the expenditures, our

[2:30:08] fiveyear trend. Um we'll go over our

[2:30:11] carry forward and then our FY27 outlook.

[2:30:15] So if you was here in April, we kind of

[2:30:20] tell a story of where our money come

[2:30:22] from for UGS. Uh we have general fund

[2:30:25] which is 50% of our um funding and then

[2:30:30] we have restricted account. These are

[2:30:32] the money that come from the federal

[2:30:35] lease, the um um my occupation tax um

[2:30:41] and uh our interest income from that and

[2:30:45] then our we have so have a small

[2:30:48] component of land exchange distribution

[2:30:51] account that contributes our restricted

[2:30:54] account. Um and then the outside

[2:30:56] funding. These are the great work that

[2:30:59] uh the grant the federal grant that you

[2:31:02] saw we talk about the private entity

[2:31:05] come in and give us the funding to do

[2:31:07] our work. So

[2:31:10] on the restricted account obviously the risk that we always monitoring

[2:31:15] within UG

[2:31:22] matching up with the appropriation that

[2:31:24] was given to us. So this is something

[2:31:25] that we con constantly are monitoring

[2:31:29] the outside funding. We every year get a

[2:31:33] appropriation which is a max authority

[2:31:35] that we can go out and collect um based

[2:31:38] on the forecast of the work that our

[2:31:42] program manager put together. Uh but the

[2:31:45] actual earning and collections is based

[2:31:48] on the delivery that we are able to

[2:31:51] accomplish for the years. Um so that

[2:31:53] very much dependent on the capacity the

[2:31:56] bandwidth the staff have to be able to

[2:31:59] deliver. So this year's FY26

[2:32:02] as um Darene mentions our fiscal year

[2:32:06] start July 1st 2025 and it ended June

[2:32:10] 30th 2026. So FY26 where we landed in

[2:32:15] term of the um the um funding source we have 8.9

[2:32:24] million from general um that captures

[2:32:27] our general fund our general fund one

[2:32:30] time as well our building block the

[2:32:32] geothermal that you all heard of that

[2:32:35] run multiple years and then the

[2:32:38] restricted account we have 3.29 29

[2:32:42] million in restricted account and then

[2:32:45] outside funding which is 5.51

[2:32:49] uh represent 31% of our funding source.

[2:32:53] Want to pause for a minute here because

[2:32:55] that 5.51

[2:32:57] represent um the 2.53

[2:33:01] chamfer which is the work that we do in

[2:33:05] collaboration

[2:33:06] with our brother or sister agency and

[2:33:09] then the federal grant 2.26 million

[2:33:12] those number those two number are the

[2:33:15] highest realization rate ever in UG

[2:33:19] history. So um a moment of celebration

[2:33:24] here um with the general restricted and

[2:33:27] outside funding that bring our total

[2:33:29] available funding to 17.74 million and

[2:33:34] then how we spend that money. We're

[2:33:36] going to show you our expenditures over

[2:33:39] the last five years so that you can see

[2:33:41] the trend. So

[2:33:44] uh here over the last five years you

[2:33:47] will see that our uh financial footprint

[2:33:50] has expanded uh from 9.49 million to

[2:33:55] 15.24

[2:33:56] million

[2:33:58] personnel is our core asset. people our

[2:34:01] core asset um this year's in FY26 that

[2:34:07] blue component as you can see

[2:34:10] um represents 73% of our expenditures

[2:34:14] and if you look at the expenditures for

[2:34:16] personnel you'll see that over the past

[2:34:18] five years we have every year year over

[2:34:22] year keep growing but in FY26

[2:34:26] um we intentionally

[2:34:29] try to put a pause and take a look at

[2:34:32] our workforce as a whole and kind of

[2:34:35] assess whether we have the bandwidth or

[2:34:40] the funding to keep growing and what the

[2:34:43] work should look like. Um so as you can

[2:34:46] see that component did not grow from

[2:34:50] 2025 to 2026 and actually in the next

[2:34:54] slide you'll see that we kind of pick a

[2:34:56] little dip when it comes to personnel

[2:34:59] and that was an intentional decisions

[2:35:01] that we make. Um and now as we assess

[2:35:05] the workload, the amount of grand work

[2:35:08] that we receive and we see that there is

[2:35:12] enough work um we then make the decision

[2:35:14] to hire and as you see those um new

[2:35:17] personnel that we just saw at the

[2:35:20] beginning of the meeting. The second

[2:35:22] thing that will jump out in here you'll

[2:35:24] see is the pass through amount. uh

[2:35:28] because of the complexity of the work

[2:35:30] the grant that was written uh requires

[2:35:33] to partner with other entity. Um I think

[2:35:37] mice is gone but he could speak to

[2:35:39] certain project that uh requires to

[2:35:43] partner with other um entity and that's

[2:35:47] why that number increase compared with

[2:35:50] previous years. So in summary, the

[2:35:54] expenditures the primary driver for us

[2:35:57] uh for this year's is a building block

[2:36:00] funding that we've got for geothermal

[2:36:02] that run multiple years as well as our

[2:36:06] um record captures in federal fund and

[2:36:09] the work that we perform in

[2:36:11] collaborations with our sister and

[2:36:13] brother agency. And when before you want

[2:36:16] before you change the slide, I want to

[2:36:18] point something out, especially because

[2:36:20] Lacy is here. She's our legislative

[2:36:23] finance officer. I want to point out

[2:36:25] that all of this growth in funding

[2:36:30] has happened without asking the

[2:36:32] legislature for an adjustment to our

[2:36:35] general fund. Right? So the staffing

[2:36:37] growth that we've had, the way we deploy

[2:36:40] our general funds to um you know secure

[2:36:45] match funding for grants, the hiring

[2:36:48] that we've done, this growth is is

[2:36:50] related to transfer funds with other

[2:36:53] agencies with external funding and with

[2:36:56] building blocks. So specific, you know,

[2:36:59] line item type things. So just keep that

[2:37:03] in mind as we talk about our overall

[2:37:06] staff numbers.

[2:37:08] >> Yeah, I might just step back and I just

[2:37:10] mentioned that the work uh for certain

[2:37:12] program require us as we prepare the

[2:37:16] grant to collaborate with other outside

[2:37:19] um entity to deliver that and Mike can

[2:37:22] speak to some of that. Um I think UBML

[2:37:26] is one of example that you could tell

[2:37:29] the board on the work that we partner

[2:37:32] with other entity to deliver.

[2:37:35] >> Yeah, that project is our bathtric light

[2:37:39] project

[2:37:41] and we had initially put in a building

[2:37:44] block. Um the legislature decided to

[2:37:48] take the funds from forest fire state

[2:37:50] lands restricted account which was fine

[2:37:53] with us and so it's a partnership

[2:37:56] between us forest fire state lands to

[2:37:59] collect

[2:38:01] our data out lake which is similar to

[2:38:05] but it laser penetrates the water column

[2:38:08] and gives you high resolution rendering

[2:38:11] of the floor of the lake and gives us

[2:38:14] better elevation models.

[2:38:17] million dollar

[2:38:18] >> $1.8 million the data collection is

[2:38:22] about 1.6 six and we carved off about

[2:38:25] 200k per second.

[2:38:28] >> Darling, would it be fair that you know

[2:38:30] from 2022 to now, but the growth has

[2:38:34] been?

[2:38:35] >> So, some of that growth was driven by um

[2:38:38] like uh bumping up staff to manage data

[2:38:40] preservation grant I think is probably a

[2:38:43] big one. Um where else did we grow

[2:38:46] >> the water program? We had a lot of

[2:38:48] growth.

[2:38:48] >> We had a lot of growth in our

[2:38:49] groundwater wetlands program. Yeah,

[2:38:51] we've we've grown that groundwater

[2:38:53] wetlands work a lot and staff a lot and

[2:38:55] again that's because that is what's

[2:38:57] being asked from us from our state

[2:38:59] partners right forestry far state lands

[2:39:01] right as the attention to water deficits

[2:39:04] in Utah and the great salt lake have

[2:39:06] become more and more kind of a prevalent

[2:39:09] um you know driver and need for our work

[2:39:12] um we have grown our energy and minerals

[2:39:15] team as well um so but again you know

[2:39:18] when I came on you groups for the CCUS

[2:39:22] and then the hydrothermal programs as

[2:39:25] well as the critical me stuff that the

[2:39:28] >> the legislaturator is asking you to do

[2:39:29] anyway.

[2:39:30] >> Yes. Right. And yes, it is right and

[2:39:34] there's a lot of external funding for

[2:39:36] that. Right. So, it's partly like what

[2:39:38] is the state asking us to do? Where are

[2:39:40] their funding opportunities externally,

[2:39:42] especially from DOE and DOI that'll help

[2:39:45] us get that work done? So we're we're

[2:39:47] bringing in you know federal money to

[2:39:50] help achieve that as well as being

[2:39:52] responsive to forestry fire and state

[2:39:54] lands to the division of water rights as

[2:39:56] they've asked us to do basin you know

[2:39:59] groundwater basin water balances across

[2:40:01] the state for communities that are

[2:40:03] experiencing water stress um trying to

[2:40:05] help sit right with with mapping on on

[2:40:08] lands that have potential you know lease

[2:40:11] opportunities. So when I came on, you

[2:40:14] know, I looked at our staffing numbers

[2:40:17] and our mission focus and really just

[2:40:21] tried to align our staffing with what

[2:40:24] our mission needs to be, right? So we

[2:40:27] had some attrition in 2024 and 2025. I

[2:40:32] kind of let that attrition happen. We

[2:40:34] just held our staffing, called it

[2:40:37] measure and monitor mode. Right? where

[2:40:40] are we at with our staffing and I'm

[2:40:42] still looking at rebalancing our

[2:40:44] staffing portfolio a little bit. I think

[2:40:46] there's some opportunities to do that.

[2:40:48] Um so you'll see a few changes. You

[2:40:51] know, we've brought on to be able to

[2:40:53] bring on four scientists I think says a

[2:40:56] lot about how healthy our budget is. And

[2:41:00] again, that was done with a lot of

[2:41:02] thought, with a lot of number crunching,

[2:41:05] um, and you know, making sure that we

[2:41:07] can support that down the road. Mike,

[2:41:11] >> part of that increase in personnel costs

[2:41:13] from 2022 to 24 were pretty massive

[2:41:17] targeted salary increases for

[2:41:19] geologists. uh two years in a row the

[2:41:22] legislator

[2:41:24] uh did studies looking at comparability

[2:41:27] of what we get paid versus private

[2:41:30] industry and there were

[2:41:32] 10% [snorts]

[2:41:33] raises 20% raises there was significant

[2:41:36] raises to level up our salaries compared

[2:41:39] to outside

[2:41:42] so a lot of that is we're not adding

[2:41:44] people but people are getting paid

[2:41:46] better

[2:41:46] >> they're getting paid more yeah that that

[2:41:48] was like that was like a step change or

[2:41:50] staff costs are somewhere it depends on

[2:41:52] the position and the person but up to

[2:41:54] like 30% really over those couple years.

[2:41:56] >> Wow.

[2:41:57] >> This time scale I believe represents

[2:41:59] [clears throat] growth from about 80 to

[2:42:01] 95 employees. So we did add bodies as

[2:42:04] well.

[2:42:05] >> Yeah, we did for sure. But there's a not trivial component of

[2:42:09] changes in mortgages that were they

[2:42:11] occurred as two different step changes

[2:42:13] >> and we're trying to be really careful

[2:42:15] about that right now. You know there's a

[2:42:16] big affordability question happening.

[2:42:19] you know, we're we're trying to help

[2:42:20] people out. We're looking at

[2:42:21] opportunities to to promote staff. But

[2:42:24] again, you know, you can't just give

[2:42:25] everybody a 10% raise when your

[2:42:27] personnel costs are, you know, $1

[2:42:29] million,

[2:42:30] >> right? I do want to echo what both Mike

[2:42:34] and Stephan brought in because if you

[2:42:36] see the headcount world, um the number

[2:42:39] didn't change so much drastically from

[2:42:42] 2022 to 2026.

[2:42:45] Um cuz it's [clears throat] 62 and 62

[2:42:48] right on at the B level schedule B and

[2:42:53] then everything else kind of constant

[2:42:54] but that jump that you saw from the

[2:42:56] previous slide was pretty significant

[2:42:59] and that kind of

[2:43:01] >> B your G right

[2:43:05] >> yeah so TLS

[2:43:07] >> be career science positions or career

[2:43:09] support staff positions as the core of

[2:43:12] the survey

[2:43:13] >> so TLS are, you know, the the two guys

[2:43:16] that were in here, you know, we hire

[2:43:18] those. We carry we carry our TL we carry

[2:43:22] some of our TLS around for a long time

[2:43:24] and I think we probably want to be a

[2:43:27] little more thoughtful about some of

[2:43:28] that. That's what I'm looking at right

[2:43:29] now. Um so but they are um they are

[2:43:34] usually that's the level that we'll hire

[2:43:36] at when we have you know a grant large

[2:43:40] grant opportunity that's come in that

[2:43:42] might take a couple years to to map out.

[2:43:45] So

[2:43:46] >> yeah and one thing that you probably

[2:43:49] don't know I want to give a huge kudo to

[2:43:51] Stephan and Darene because every time

[2:43:53] when somebody bring in any project

[2:43:55] proposal the first question that they

[2:43:58] would ask is is this missions focus and

[2:44:01] I think that helped out a lot with you

[2:44:04] know because I feel like here everybody

[2:44:06] want to do great work and they have

[2:44:08] always have great idea what kind of

[2:44:10] project they will want to work on

[2:44:12] unfortunately we don't have the money to

[2:44:14] do it all because we have constraint and

[2:44:17] Gene and Stephan has been great with

[2:44:18] kind of narrowing people down. Um so on

[2:44:22] this slide just want to bring um kind of

[2:44:25] echo what we discussed in the previous

[2:44:27] slide is that number one personnel is

[2:44:30] our highest um component of total spend

[2:44:33] and that is pretty much aligned with um

[2:44:36] the industry or the service that we

[2:44:38] provide. we are, you know, heavy in

[2:44:41] personnel. And then the

[2:44:44] um cost in term of personnel service for

[2:44:47] 2026, as you can see, we kind of hold

[2:44:50] steady um even bring it down a little

[2:44:54] bit compared to the previous year. Then

[2:44:57] that would allow us to assess for FY27.

[2:45:02] Uh moving on. So as we discussed our

[2:45:06] total available funding was at 17.74

[2:45:11] million from those three source of

[2:45:14] funding our expenditures for FY26

[2:45:18] um ended at 15.24 24 million that

[2:45:22] leaving us with a balance of 2.5

[2:45:25] million. Um of that 2.5 million

[2:45:29] » [clears throat]

[2:45:29] >> um we talked earlier on about those

[2:45:31] program that carry multiple years. Um so

[2:45:34] you talk about the Bonavville salt flat,

[2:45:37] the critical mural RFA and then the um

[2:45:40] geothermal building block. Those three

[2:45:44] program have multiple years um and so

[2:45:46] the carry forward that belong to those

[2:45:48] three program is 1.31

[2:45:51] million and then the nonprogram

[2:45:53] component um of that 2.5 is 1.18

[2:45:58] million. So that is our um carry forward

[2:46:02] allocations for FY27.

[2:46:06] Um at the end of FY27

[2:46:10] uh we do want to have a balanced goal

[2:46:12] for the nun program uh in the same range

[2:46:16] between 1 to 1.2 million and we'll dive

[2:46:19] into that the rationale why we thinking

[2:46:21] that is a healthy number in in the next

[2:46:24] slide. anything you will add to that

[2:46:26] before we moving on any questions from

[2:46:28] the room. Okay.

[2:46:32] Uh so we did touch on the uh restricted

[2:46:38] account at the beginning of our

[2:46:40] conversations is that we have a

[2:46:42] restricted account that we really can't

[2:46:44] control. Uh we was given an

[2:46:47] appropriation but the revenue collected

[2:46:48] from the restricted accounts kind of go

[2:46:50] up and down month over month. Um so for

[2:46:55] FY26

[2:46:56] we started the beginning balance at 1

[2:46:59] million restricted account total we

[2:47:02] wasn't collected in the restricted

[2:47:05] account for FY26 2.68 million um and

[2:47:09] then the appropriations that was given

[2:47:12] to us to withdraw 3.27 27 which we do

[2:47:16] that in every quarter we'll take out 800

[2:47:19] 811k

[2:47:21] and so that leaving us at the end of

[2:47:23] FY26 with a balance of 417K

[2:47:27] [clears throat] um which is what we will

[2:47:29] then start um for FY27 as a beginning

[2:47:33] balance um we touch on that 1.184005

[2:47:40] million that we started as a nonprogram

[2:47:43] carry forward. Um, we put in some

[2:47:47] scenario to kind of help us plan for

[2:47:49] FY27.

[2:47:50] What if we collected the same amount?

[2:47:53] What if we collect 10% more or less than

[2:47:55] 10%? What would happen? And then Mike uh

[2:47:59] also did his um calculation forecast to

[2:48:02] help us figure out out of those three

[2:48:04] scenario where we most likely will land

[2:48:07] in term of the revenue collection

[2:48:08] itself. Um so it might seem to think

[2:48:12] that we will most likely in these two

[2:48:15] scenario where our base will be about

[2:48:17] 2.78 million plus or minus 200k.

[2:48:22] So with those two scenario we're kind of

[2:48:25] looking at a

[2:48:28] deficit um if we continue drawing at the

[2:48:31] 3.3271

[2:48:33] 100 um that was given in terropriations.

[2:48:37] So that 1.184

[2:48:40] 1.18 million that you see we carry

[2:48:42] forward um will net between um 958K

[2:48:48] to 1.1 million

[2:48:52] just from that. Okay.

[2:48:54] >> So this is complicated. So I'm going to

[2:48:57] try to go through it again because I I

[2:48:59] do this really so I can understand it as

[2:49:02] well.

[2:49:04] um our appropriation is 3.27 million out

[2:49:09] of our restricted account.

[2:49:12] So whether this much money comes in or

[2:49:16] not, 811k a quarter gets pushed into our

[2:49:20] account.

[2:49:22] So if only

[2:49:27] 2.684 684 comes in through those mineral

[2:49:30] lease and severance funds, there's a

[2:49:34] deficit and we have to pay that back at

[2:49:37] the end of the year. So, we have to have

[2:49:41] enough carryover

[2:49:43] to

[2:49:45] uh you know adjust this balance, right?

[2:49:49] Or we request a change in our

[2:49:51] appropriation.

[2:49:53] And um since Lacy's here, I'll just say

[2:49:56] we're watching this and so we're not

[2:49:59] going to make a request right now, but

[2:50:02] by December maybe we may have a better

[2:50:04] idea of where we stand. Um Mike has this

[2:50:08] kind of uh very complicated

[2:50:12] method for tracking what is really

[2:50:16] happening in industry that drives this

[2:50:19] on the revenue side. And so he's able to

[2:50:22] give us kind of a, you know, he gets his

[2:50:25] Ouija board out and his crystal ball and

[2:50:28] shakes them all up together and gives us

[2:50:30] kind of a ballpark figure of where he

[2:50:32] thinks that min release is going to come

[2:50:34] in or the restricted account is going to

[2:50:37] come in for the year. We try to budget

[2:50:41] to this,

[2:50:43] not to that. Because if we budget to

[2:50:46] that, we may be over by about $500,000.

[2:50:50] And that's a lot in our in our little

[2:50:52] budget, right? So, um so we either plan

[2:50:57] on having um enough money to, you know,

[2:51:01] have additional carryover, right?

[2:51:03] Ideally, we'd like to be using our

[2:51:04] restricted account to keep money in

[2:51:07] reserve. That's the goal. But there's

[2:51:09] been an offset with industry since our

[2:51:12] appropriation was set about what revenue

[2:51:14] actually comes in.

[2:51:17] Maybe just a little bit more background

[2:51:19] especially for newer board members. Um

[2:51:22] we have Utah Geological Survey has

[2:51:24] gotten mineral federal mineral lease

[2:51:27] royalties for a very long time. Um which

[2:51:31] is great. We did a certain percentage,

[2:51:34] but it's complicates our budgeting

[2:51:38] because that number is so uncertain

[2:51:40] because it's based off of commodity

[2:51:42] values. And what really drives it is oil

[2:51:45] and gas and the price of oil and gas.

[2:51:48] So we try to calculate or predict oil

[2:51:52] and gas production on federal lands and

[2:51:54] the price of oil and gas to try to

[2:51:56] [snorts] determine how much money we're

[2:51:57] going to get each year

[2:52:00] to varying degrees of success.

[2:52:04] Then a couple years ago, two or three

[2:52:06] years ago, we started to receive

[2:52:09] additional money into our restricted

[2:52:11] account from state seance tax. Uh so

[2:52:14] that comes from oil and gas, but it also

[2:52:17] comes from money. So it's a little bit

[2:52:20] more diversified out of money. So it's

[2:52:24] from mineral commodities produced

[2:52:26] anywhere in Utah. Whereas the mineral

[2:52:28] lease is only mineral commodities

[2:52:30] produced on federal land. So like think

[2:52:33] of Kakott. We never got any mineral

[2:52:36] lease money from Kakott because Kakott's

[2:52:39] private land. But now we get some money

[2:52:42] from Kakott because they pay minerals

[2:52:45] tax.

[2:52:47] So now we have two unpredictable amounts

[2:52:50] that we try to have to forecast

[2:52:52] severance tax is also based on the value

[2:52:56] of the production. Um luckily the

[2:52:59] formula for how much money we get in

[2:53:02] severance tax is based on or historic

[2:53:05] events. So we can use historic data and

[2:53:10] then use that to calculate mineral lease

[2:53:12] or separates tax for say this year.

[2:53:15] Mineral lease is more of a a real time

[2:53:19] thing to predict. So that's where this

[2:53:22] 2.68

[2:53:24] million comes from. Those two pots of

[2:53:27] money coming into this account from

[2:53:30] those two sources.

[2:53:33] And again, we try to predict what that's

[2:53:36] going to be for the entire fiscal year.

[2:53:39] Um, we get mineral lease checks monthly.

[2:53:43] So, every month once we get check, I

[2:53:46] review all my numbers and update them as

[2:53:49] needed,

[2:53:50] >> which is this number that my talk about.

[2:53:52] So, every month my would do his

[2:53:54] calculation. He'll send it back to he

[2:53:56] say it's going to be this instead of

[2:53:58] that.

[2:54:00] So just last week I tried to calculate

[2:54:03] the what we're going to get for fiscal

[2:54:05] year 27 and landed on that down at the

[2:54:08] bottom that 2.78 million from both

[2:54:12] severance and release.

[2:54:14] >> So instead of 2.6 six because this is

[2:54:17] right now we just take okay what if it's

[2:54:20] this year's the way it is this year 10%

[2:54:24] and this is what Mike uh mentioning that

[2:54:27] it possibly be in FY207

[2:54:31] 2.78 plus or minus 200k

[2:54:35] >> so that that's that's basically at break

[2:54:37] even for our restricted account so in

[2:54:40] terms but remember we started with a

[2:54:43] little bit in our account so there is an

[2:54:46] opportunity when we get to like you know

[2:54:48] maybe December if we if we do feel like

[2:54:50] our budget is pretty healthy and have

[2:54:52] any carryover [snorts]

[2:54:54] maybe we want to adjust that

[2:54:55] appropriation downwards for the year so

[2:54:58] that we can retain some money in our

[2:55:00] restricted account and actually start

[2:55:03] you know using it to to have a little

[2:55:05] bit more cushion. Any carryover is a

[2:55:08] great cushion for us. It gives us

[2:55:10] resilience. Um, you know, there's still

[2:55:13] a lot of uncertainty out there with

[2:55:14] federal government and all that kind of

[2:55:16] stuff. So, we definitely want to have

[2:55:18] that cushion. Um, again, we're being

[2:55:21] really careful about staffing um and the

[2:55:24] rest of our expenses. So, we're just

[2:55:26] kind of in measure and monitor mode, but

[2:55:29] this picture that WIN has built really

[2:55:31] helps us understand where we sit and

[2:55:34] where we're going. So, it's great

[2:55:36] guidance for us.

[2:55:39] >> Anything else you want to add?

[2:55:41] I just say again going back to the

[2:55:43] unpredictability having a restricted

[2:55:46] account removes some of the the

[2:55:49] uncertainty and

[2:55:52] within plugging that money into our

[2:55:54] budget because now we can take money

[2:55:56] from year to year whereas in the past

[2:55:58] the mineral lease we had to spend it

[2:56:01] that year and if I predicted 1.5 but and

[2:56:06] we get three million

[2:56:08] >> get swept away

[2:56:09] >> it gets swept. dur the end of the year

[2:56:11] we're like how can we spend $500 fast

[2:56:15] >> now now we don't necessarily have that

[2:56:18] problem because we have a a mechanism to

[2:56:20] carry that forward but we're we're still

[2:56:23] kind of caught in the unpredictability

[2:56:27] that in say 2015 price of oil and gas

[2:56:32] crashed kind of unexpectedly and wiped

[2:56:36] out $2 million from mineral lease that

[2:56:38] we thought we were going to get All of a

[2:56:39] sudden, a couple months later, we're not

[2:56:42] getting $2 million. And for a UGS budget

[2:56:45] at the time, which was like 10 million,

[2:56:48] losing $2 million overnight, and our

[2:56:51] staffing takes up 90% of our budget,

[2:56:54] that's a huge deal. So, that's why we

[2:56:58] had that's illustrates the importance of

[2:57:01] having that carry forward

[2:57:04] and paying attention and doing good

[2:57:06] budgeting and being good finance.

[2:57:09] Um and that kind of leading into was

[2:57:12] just the same thing for the following

[2:57:14] year that we need to have a healthy uh

[2:57:17] carry forward or do something with our

[2:57:20] budget. Um cuz FY26 we had a balance to

[2:57:24] be with. FY27 we had a beginning balance

[2:57:29] to be with. FY28 we not sure whether

[2:57:33] there'll be a beginning balance in the

[2:57:35] district yet. So then we'll have to be

[2:57:38] um enter cautions. Um not to be worried.

[2:57:42] This is not to be alarming. We are

[2:57:44] starting to go and do our operating

[2:57:46] budget next week with our staff and that

[2:57:49] will inform us what would it take to run

[2:57:53] the um UTS FY20

[2:57:58] seven. Um, also it's very assuring for

[2:58:01] me because a lot of our managers not

[2:58:04] only plan out for their staff with the

[2:58:06] workload and the grant for FY27. Many of

[2:58:10] the managers had plan out two or three

[2:58:13] years. If they staff me just inform me

[2:58:16] that see no two years out for her staff

[2:58:20] and when you talk to groundwater a lot

[2:58:22] of the manager know and they have grand

[2:58:26] or upcoming work for three years. So now

[2:58:30] after this my work is to go and gather

[2:58:32] all that data together to help us then

[2:58:35] plan ahead FY 27 and FY28.

[2:58:41] Um

[2:58:43] okay.

[2:58:45] Um and then yesterday during staff

[2:58:47] meeting I'm mentioned to staff that he

[2:58:50] has a kind of a life cycle of the

[2:58:52] outside funding so that everybody know

[2:58:55] that even though there's a lot of

[2:58:56] opportunity that people see when they do

[2:58:59] the grant proposal at the end of the day

[2:59:01] it's all about deliver get it and on

[2:59:05] time on budget so that actually collect

[2:59:08] the outside funding um as we plan um so

[2:59:12] staff is aware of that. We also show

[2:59:14] them that here are kind of the thought

[2:59:16] of like scope the brand accurately. Um

[2:59:22] check the remaining budget regularly and

[2:59:24] making sure that there's still budget

[2:59:26] and then don't charge to a program or

[2:59:30] project that doesn't have any funding.

[2:59:32] Work with their managers to scope it

[2:59:34] right and that would also help with our

[2:59:36] budget. So, we do everything we can

[2:59:39] internally to kind of making sure that

[2:59:41] we proactively plan for and then

[2:59:44] managing our budget. Um, as you see, we

[2:59:48] do a lot of great work here and there

[2:59:50] just not enough funding to do everything

[2:59:52] that we want to do and our staff are

[2:59:54] incredibly intelligent and smart and

[2:59:57] they have a great lots of great ideas.

[2:59:59] So, uh Ben will then walk you through

[3:00:02] the next component about the program and

[3:00:05] project.

[3:00:07] So for for a lot of our staff these last this financial picture you

[3:00:13] know when delivered a simplified version

[3:00:15] of this to our staff yesterday but these

[3:00:17] last two slides about you know project

[3:00:20] delivery

[3:00:22] um and you know you guys have come from

[3:00:25] the consulting world right so this you

[3:00:28] know revenue collection and recognition

[3:00:31] whip

[3:00:32] um you know actually project delivery

[3:00:35] this is like beat into our heads all the

[3:00:37] time. If you come from consulting, this

[3:00:40] snapshot of where they sit in this and

[3:00:43] how this drives and contributes to our

[3:00:46] financial health, it's probably more, I

[3:00:49] guess, information than they've probably

[3:00:53] had insight into in the past. So, we're

[3:00:56] trying to really coach our staff about

[3:00:58] how the work that they do and the

[3:01:00] importance of as something as simple as

[3:01:01] how they fill out their time sheet

[3:01:04] really contributes to our financial

[3:01:06] health. And I'm not sure that that focus

[3:01:09] was really solidly in place um you know

[3:01:13] under prior leadership, but we're really

[3:01:16] building that now and it has made a huge

[3:01:18] turnaround in our financial health

[3:01:20] already. So, we just kind of continue to

[3:01:23] try to um give our staff some insights

[3:01:26] into where they sit with um with their

[3:01:30] contribution to not only the science

[3:01:32] that we do, but the financial health of

[3:01:34] our organization. And so, these are

[3:01:36] really clear, you know, kind of

[3:01:38] directives from our finance team that

[3:01:41] leaves into Ben.

[3:01:42] >> I think as an addendum to that, a lot of

[3:01:43] our staff has been in academia or

[3:01:45] research. They've never really had to

[3:01:47] deal with the financial component their

[3:01:48] projects. I think the financial project

[3:01:50] management aspect has been somewhat

[3:01:52] lacking. Win is an excellent

[3:01:54] communicator and I think is really

[3:01:55] helping to break down some of those

[3:01:56] issues. I think we're only going to

[3:01:58] continue to see improved discipline and

[3:02:01] billing from our staff. I think folks

[3:02:03] are starting to really understand

[3:02:04] financial health part of the science as

[3:02:07] well, not just doing the science. So I'm

[3:02:09] going to give a slightly larger uh drill

[3:02:12] down view of of some of what just went

[3:02:15] over. So I manage the outside revenue

[3:02:18] collection for UGS. We have about 55 to

[3:02:21] 65 active projects at any given time.

[3:02:23] Right now it's about 20 federal

[3:02:25] projects, about 30 to 35 state level

[3:02:27] projects, and then another handful of

[3:02:29] projects with private companies. So all

[3:02:31] of that we have to guess at the start of

[3:02:33] the year how much do we think we're

[3:02:35] actually going to earn from our

[3:02:36] projects. When I first got to UGS, there

[3:02:39] was a somewhat systemic issue that we

[3:02:41] would consistently underp project or

[3:02:44] we'd overp project by about 15 to 20%.

[3:02:46] At the end of the year, we would have

[3:02:48] collected 15 to 20% less revenue than

[3:02:50] we'd anticipated. Since we've started to

[3:02:53] put some financial controls in place and

[3:02:54] worked with our managers, we've gotten

[3:02:56] much much better. This has been the best

[3:02:59] year since I got to UGS. We collected

[3:03:01] 96% of what we thought we would when it

[3:03:03] came to revenue. On the left side here,

[3:03:05] we have what we thought would happen at

[3:03:07] the very start of fiscal year. We

[3:03:09] thought we'd do about 2.5 million in

[3:03:11] revenue for federal grants, about 2.4

[3:03:13] million in revenue for state grants

[3:03:16] known as transfers. We do just under

[3:03:18] $400,000 in dedicated credits, which are

[3:03:20] more or less the sale of services to

[3:03:22] private companies and about $160,000 in

[3:03:25] expendable receipts, which are similar

[3:03:27] to dedicated credits, but the difference

[3:03:28] is not worth getting into.

[3:03:31] At the end of the year, we'd collected

[3:03:32] 5.3 out of our projected $5.5 million.

[3:03:36] This was the highest ever revenue year

[3:03:37] for UGS. Last year, fiscal year 25 was

[3:03:40] the previous high at about 4.3 million.

[3:03:43] So, we surpassed that significantly.

[3:03:45] Granted, a lot of that was passed

[3:03:47] through money where we received a grant

[3:03:49] and passed money down to a collaborator.

[3:03:51] We don't necessarily earn on that, but

[3:03:53] it's still important to understand the

[3:03:54] scope and the scale of some of these

[3:03:56] projects. 5.3 million is a huge step

[3:03:59] increase for UGS. We collected the 5.3.

[3:04:03] It shifted a little bit from what we

[3:04:04] thought at the start of the year. We

[3:04:06] actually did a little bit more work for

[3:04:07] state contracts. We collected 2.6

[3:04:09] million in transfer funds, only about

[3:04:12] 2.2 2.3 in federal grants, but that's

[3:04:14] fine because those are ongoing. We

[3:04:16] didn't lose any opportunities there. And

[3:04:18] then dedicated credits uh were well

[3:04:20] below at only about $160,000 and about

[3:04:25] 246 for expendable receipts. This was a

[3:04:28] really strong year financially for UGS.

[3:04:30] Our staff got much better at time sheet

[3:04:32] discipline. We got much better at

[3:04:33] billing to the projects and stopping

[3:04:35] once they were over build. And it just

[3:04:38] feels like everything is tightening up a

[3:04:40] little bit. So for my role, these are

[3:04:43] the two numbers I kind of think the most

[3:04:44] about. Where are we saying we're going

[3:04:46] to be at the start of the year and where

[3:04:47] do we actually finish? So to get to that

[3:04:50] $1.2 million of carryover every year

[3:04:52] that keeps our budget healthy, it's

[3:04:54] really important that we stay on top of

[3:04:56] our outside awards.

[3:04:58] Another critical part of our budget is

[3:05:01] our grant match. We have all of these

[3:05:03] awards, but they're not all free. We're

[3:05:06] trying to chase smart money. We want to

[3:05:07] find projects where we're paying into

[3:05:09] the the project as little as possible.

[3:05:12] In the past, our grant match got up to

[3:05:14] as high as $1.2 million. So, this means

[3:05:17] out of that allotted $6 million general

[3:05:19] funds, we're already committing 1.2 to

[3:05:22] grants. That means that if we have any

[3:05:24] projects we want to pursue that aren't

[3:05:26] necessarily funded by an outside ward,

[3:05:28] we have $1.2 million less to pursue

[3:05:31] those. Whether that's staff going to

[3:05:32] conferences, presenting, doing uh

[3:05:35] science that is not necessarily funded

[3:05:36] by an outside award, a trench study

[3:05:38] somewhere in the state. We reduce that

[3:05:40] capacity by $1.2 million. Over the last

[3:05:43] couple years, we've instituted go no-go

[3:05:46] kickoff meetings prior to a pro project

[3:05:48] application. We've tried to chase smart

[3:05:50] money, a grant where we pay 50% cost

[3:05:53] share and don't receive our full

[3:05:55] indirect rate is not something that

[3:05:57] makes sense economically for us. We have

[3:05:59] to find projects that not only match the

[3:06:01] mission and scope of the UGS but make

[3:06:04] sense financially and we've gotten a lot

[3:06:06] better. So you can see on the left side

[3:06:08] of this graph that is our scale for

[3:06:10] match. The y- axis shows how much we are

[3:06:13] uh paying out of general funds for match

[3:06:15] and uh on the right side the y- axis is

[3:06:18] our revenue. Revenue in green match in

[3:06:20] red. Over the last few years, revenue

[3:06:22] has increased significantly from about

[3:06:25] $2.3 million to now about $5.3 million.

[3:06:29] Massive increase. Our grant match over

[3:06:31] that time has fluctuated, but we have

[3:06:32] brought it down from the high of $1.2

[3:06:34] million to this year we were just above

[3:06:37] $400,000 of grant match. That is now an

[3:06:39] additional $800,000 in our general funds

[3:06:42] we are not using and can be applied to

[3:06:44] other projects, can be applied to retain

[3:06:46] talent, hire good talent, and expand our

[3:06:48] operations. Reducing match is almost

[3:06:51] like finding new revenue. I see this is

[3:06:53] more or less $800,000 in additional

[3:06:55] revenue for EGS. I think in terms of our

[3:06:59] financial health, this is one of the

[3:07:00] most impactful things we've done in the

[3:07:02] last few years. This is a lot of cost

[3:07:05] savings. We're very proud of this. Our

[3:07:07] go no-go meetings have been great. Staff

[3:07:09] has gotten a little bit better at

[3:07:10] scoping projects and I think we're a

[3:07:12] little bit tighter when it comes to

[3:07:13] following our mission. We have a lot of

[3:07:16] grants. Don't want people's eyes to

[3:07:17] glaze over. I only want to show these

[3:07:19] two kind of primary big numbers because

[3:07:21] I think these kind of the best KPIs for

[3:07:24] our grant and outside program financial

[3:07:26] health. Stop there. Questions, concerns?

[3:07:32] >> Yes.

[3:07:32] >> What kind of leverage are you typically

[3:07:34] looking for for a match? Like $2 to one,

[3:07:37] three to one.

[3:07:38] >> So in the last couple years, we've

[3:07:41] gotten a lot of grants that have 0% cost

[3:07:43] share for us. Earth MRI is a great

[3:07:45] example of that. A lot of the money that

[3:07:47] Mike and his team gets from DOE is

[3:07:49] between zero and 20% cost share. 20%

[3:07:53] seems to be about the sweet spot for us.

[3:07:55] There's some state level contracts

[3:07:56] where, you know, we want to be good

[3:07:59] collaborators with other sister

[3:08:00] divisions. We'll throw in 50% match, but

[3:08:03] for the most part, 20 is about what

[3:08:05] we're aiming for. And with our full GNA,

[3:08:09] >> which grants have we been passing

[3:08:12] >> that we were doing that that we've cut

[3:08:13] out? I think our emphasis on finding

[3:08:16] smart money has made our job a lot

[3:08:18] easier. Staff aren't bringing grants to

[3:08:20] us at this point that have a 50% cost

[3:08:22] share and limited GNA. We've turned down

[3:08:24] I think one maybe two projects that just

[3:08:26] felt more out of mission than out of

[3:08:29] financial compliance.

[3:08:31] >> I will say a lot of that PE the real

[3:08:33] high match period that was related to

[3:08:35] data preservation

[3:08:37] >> of one particular grant that had a

[3:08:39] really high ceiling for a couple of

[3:08:40] years. I was

[3:08:41] >> it's expensive money. It is expensive

[3:08:44] money for

[3:08:45] >> for what it is. Um, we do still go I

[3:08:48] will make just because I'm a state map

[3:08:50] person I will put out there that we

[3:08:52] still go after things like state map

[3:08:54] which

[3:08:55] >> 50

[3:08:55] >> is 5050 and a reduced GNA but the thing

[3:08:58] about something like state map is we

[3:09:00] can't it is probably the most

[3:09:03] missionoriented

[3:09:04] >> it is opportunity that we have and it's

[3:09:07] like a Swiss army knife it gives us

[3:09:09] money to do things that are foundational

[3:09:11] to the survey all over that there's no

[3:09:13] other way to pay for it and so there's

[3:09:14] always going to be things like that that

[3:09:16] we're gonna go do. Um,

[3:09:18] >> absolutely.

[3:09:19] >> But it's being choosy.

[3:09:20] >> It's being smart about it, right? And we

[3:09:22] want to have room in our budget for

[3:09:25] projects like State Math. We want to

[3:09:27] have room in our projects for data

[3:09:29] preservation, right? Which is also a 50%

[3:09:32] grant, but maybe not $700,000

[3:09:35] in match to scan aerial photos, right?

[3:09:39] Again, the questions I want to hear from

[3:09:41] our staff when they bring a grant

[3:09:43] proposal to us is, is it strategic? It

[3:09:47] is, is it in line with our statutory

[3:09:50] responsibilities, right? How expensive

[3:09:53] of the match is it? Right? Are we

[3:09:56] looking at 50% match, 20% match, 10%

[3:09:59] match, nothing? What's our GNA on this?

[3:10:02] do we have the staff bandwidth to

[3:10:04] actually get this work done or are you

[3:10:07] bringing this and saying I'm going to

[3:10:08] need to hire three people which I think

[3:10:10] when we brought you know a lot of these

[3:10:12] big data preservation grants in we hired

[3:10:14] like five people we're going to be

[3:10:16] really really really careful about doing

[3:10:18] that um so so it's just kind of like

[3:10:22] because there is an opportunity cost to

[3:10:25] us when we allocate $1.2 2 million in

[3:10:28] match. There is an opportunity cost for

[3:10:31] that and we need to be sure that we're

[3:10:33] deploying that money, you know, in

[3:10:36] alignment with what our responsibilities

[3:10:37] are to the state. Are we answering the

[3:10:39] mail with what the state needs from us?

[3:10:42] And so I think these go no-go kickoffs

[3:10:45] have been really kind of a gamecher for

[3:10:47] us. People are thinking through their

[3:10:49] project opportunities.

[3:10:52] uh we're mapping out, you know, in some

[3:10:54] of these some of these groundwater

[3:10:55] wetlands, you know, projects have like

[3:10:57] two to three years of staff, you know,

[3:11:00] contribution, right? So, we're mapping

[3:11:03] out into 2030 at this point for some of

[3:11:05] these grants. And so, we're looking at,

[3:11:08] you know, when you start adding up those

[3:11:10] staff hours, we can start to see really

[3:11:13] quickly, well, is this person going to

[3:11:14] get overcommitted in 2028? And what does

[3:11:17] that mean? We have also used this as an

[3:11:20] opportunity to make sure that some of

[3:11:23] our other project contributors are

[3:11:24] included in the funding. Our data

[3:11:26] [clears throat] management team has done

[3:11:28] a lot of heavy lifting on projects.

[3:11:30] Those their costs were not originally

[3:11:33] included in a lot of our grants. And so

[3:11:36] we've brought in the data management

[3:11:37] team and their piece of it into the

[3:11:39] funding to the point where our data

[3:11:41] management team is now 30% grantf funded

[3:11:44] because their piece of the work and

[3:11:47] creating the databases behind it and

[3:11:49] pushing out, you know, websites and

[3:11:51] stuff is now acknowledged in that grant.

[3:11:53] It's covered in the grant costs and so

[3:11:56] their work is now being funded as well.

[3:11:58] So we're just a lot smarter and we're

[3:12:00] bringing in kind of the whole pieces of

[3:12:02] the project. So this has been great for

[3:12:04] our financial outlook. Um yeah what to

[3:12:09] say about it?

[3:12:11] >> What is a go what does a you know go

[3:12:13] no-go meeting look like? Is that a

[3:12:14] dedicated committee for certain areas or

[3:12:16] for the whole UGS?

[3:12:18] >> It's almost like investment committee

[3:12:19] for a a funding body. We sit down with

[3:12:22] the leadership team. We have the uh

[3:12:25] principal investigator for the project

[3:12:26] come in their manager. They've been

[3:12:28] putting together powerpoints which has

[3:12:30] made it a lot easier.

[3:12:31] >> Yeah. pretty much a pitch deck. Um, we

[3:12:33] sit down, we go over the project, who's

[3:12:35] working on it, how many hours, what do

[3:12:37] their hours, budgets look like for the

[3:12:38] next couple of fiscal years, does this

[3:12:40] make sense? Is this project on scope? Is

[3:12:43] the science that is a priority for us

[3:12:45] and for the state? We pretty much go

[3:12:47] through a couple of different points

[3:12:48] there and then say, okay, is this a

[3:12:50] project that makes sense for us to

[3:12:51] pursue? And UGS has a pretty darn good

[3:12:54] track record when it comes to applying

[3:12:55] for and winning projects, probably 80 to

[3:12:58] 90%. So, we try and start as early as we

[3:13:01] can. Is this smart money? Is this a

[3:13:03] smart project? So, we sit down. There's

[3:13:06] usually five or so of us in the room,

[3:13:08] and it's a pretty good discussion.

[3:13:11] [clears throat] I like that staff takes

[3:13:12] it really seriously. It

[3:13:14] >> they come they come pretty well prepared

[3:13:16] for this. So, and and Ben's usually had

[3:13:18] a peek at the budget already, kind of

[3:13:20] helped them kind of stack the budget.

[3:13:22] So, he's usually already got some

[3:13:23] insider info. I've usually buzz in the

[3:13:26] office about an opportunity. There's

[3:13:27] been a couple that have, you know, have

[3:13:29] been kind of concerned. So, um, we're

[3:13:32] careful.

[3:13:32] >> Yeah, we have passed on things, right?

[3:13:34] We have,

[3:13:35] >> we have passed on things.

[3:13:36] >> By and large, the majority of these are

[3:13:38] approved, but we have passed on things.

[3:13:39] >> Passed on a few things. I'm also, this

[3:13:41] is where I've, you know, from doing

[3:13:44] these where I mean, Stephen Odd was

[3:13:46] hired into our wetlands team because I

[3:13:48] looked at, you know, Becca is our our

[3:13:50] wetlands manager and I looked at her

[3:13:52] team and the work that they had coming

[3:13:54] and I was like, you're going to need

[3:13:55] some help here, right? So, you're going

[3:13:58] to need some help. We've been watching

[3:13:59] Christian's workload with geothermal.

[3:14:02] And you know, Mike was like, "If these

[3:14:04] two projects land, and you just saw them

[3:14:06] on your proposal list, two big DOE

[3:14:08] projects, if they land, we're going to

[3:14:10] need some help." So, we're actually

[3:14:12] reallocating one staff person who's

[3:14:14] internal here. She's a TL, moving that

[3:14:17] person into the ENM team to support that

[3:14:20] as well as probably advertising a

[3:14:21] project geologist position to help help

[3:14:24] that team as well. So, yeah, if we can

[3:14:27] redeploy staff, we will. So, um, but

[3:14:30] yeah, I think they've been they've

[3:14:32] really helped us. And for me as a

[3:14:34] director, it also connects me to the

[3:14:37] project work that people are doing. I

[3:14:40] understand more about what's out there,

[3:14:42] you know, and and what type of work

[3:14:44] we're doing and what's driving that.

[3:14:49] » Any other questions about our finances?

[3:14:52] >> Thank you.

[3:14:53] >> Okay. Thanks everybody. Thanks you guys.

[3:14:55] Uh, we won't, you know, again, this is

[3:14:57] kind of a year end closeout. Um, we

[3:15:00] won't have uh too

[3:15:04] much of some in-depth financial reports

[3:15:06] for the next little while. Um, so I'll

[3:15:09] move to our next item. Oh, I meant to

[3:15:11] talk about this while Brian was here,

[3:15:13] but we got so caught up in talking about

[3:15:14] everything else. We are recruiting an

[3:15:17] additional board member. Um this was uh

[3:15:20] a result of um the statutory intent

[3:15:24] language change that we requested last

[3:15:27] year to add a groundwater resources

[3:15:29] member. Um we were going to swap that

[3:15:31] out for a mineral seat. Um Brian

[3:15:35] actually pushed back and you know to the

[3:15:37] legislature and was like I don't want to

[3:15:39] lose a mineral seat. Let's add a seat to

[3:15:42] board. So, um, we are, uh, recruiting a

[3:15:47] replacement now for this mineral

[3:15:49] industry openc. So, I'll just put it out

[3:15:52] to you guys. Um, after our board field

[3:15:54] trip, which we're going to talk about

[3:15:56] next, um, we will begin kind of

[3:15:59] campassing. If you have people that you

[3:16:00] think would make uh great board members,

[3:16:03] ideally someone who is connected to the

[3:16:06] minerals industry on the exploration

[3:16:08] side, so they can really help us

[3:16:11] understand, you know, that industry and

[3:16:14] what they need from UGS. So, just kind

[3:16:17] of put that out there. I know you guys

[3:16:19] all know people. So, um and we'll we'll

[3:16:22] work with Brian to kind of get that out

[3:16:24] there also.

[3:16:27] And

[3:16:28] >> so so not industrial minerals.

[3:16:32] >> So not industrial minerals. What did I

[3:16:35] say? Did I say industrial minerals?

[3:16:38] >> Yeah, we

[3:16:39] >> Yes, industrial minerals. Oh,

[3:16:41] industrial. Okay,

[3:16:42] >> I think that was

[3:16:43] >> not metallic. Yes,

[3:16:45] >> sort of.

[3:16:45] >> Okay. Yeah, we are looking for somebody

[3:16:47] and that was discussed in our last board

[3:16:49] meeting here about you know where where

[3:16:52] should we fill that seat and you know

[3:16:55] looking at the current makeup of our

[3:16:57] board which I love. I think we have I

[3:16:59] think we have a lot of you know the

[3:17:01] industries that we work with pretty well

[3:17:03] covered. So our agreement was to look on

[3:17:05] the industrial side

[3:17:09] and we will look for your help with

[3:17:12] that.

[3:17:14] Okay, just two more topics here. Um, our

[3:17:17] field trip overview and then let's take

[3:17:19] a look after this at our 2027 board

[3:17:22] meeting dates. So, if you remember our

[3:17:25] field trip is the 7th, 8th, and 9th.

[3:17:29] >> So, two nights.

[3:17:30] >> Yeah, a little longer one this year, I

[3:17:32] think. Has everybody

[3:17:34] >> has everybody RSVPd and

[3:17:37] >> Okay.

[3:17:37] >> got reservations. So, this is this one's

[3:17:39] a unique opportunity. We're kind of

[3:17:41] leaning in. Um, so we're the board

[3:17:43] members will fly down to Cayana on the

[3:17:46] state plane. We've got that book. It's moderately affordable. Um, we'll have a a ground crew that'll meet

[3:17:53] you guys in Cayana, which is just south

[3:17:56] of the Utah line in northern Arizona

[3:17:58] near Monument Valley. And then that

[3:18:00] first day, we're going to drive up into

[3:18:02] the Utah part of Monument Valley, and

[3:18:04] we're going to look at the old Jetto 7

[3:18:06] and a half quads and the geology there.

[3:18:08] Uh we'll do we'll do basically typical

[3:18:11] field geology. We're going to hike

[3:18:12] through the permo triacic section. We're

[3:18:14] going to talk scoscience.

[3:18:17] Basically there are some resource

[3:18:19] related issues down there related to

[3:18:21] uranium that we'll deal with. That'll be

[3:18:23] the majority of our first day. Um when

[3:18:26] we're done walking around on the ground

[3:18:28] in Alta, we will get in the vehicles and

[3:18:30] we'll start to head north. Uh we'll

[3:18:32] probably have one intermediary stop in

[3:18:35] Mexican hat and we'll talk about

[3:18:36] pictorile history there and strategraphy

[3:18:39] a little bit bathroom break. Um we will

[3:18:42] likely have dinner in Bluff. Our best

[3:18:45] options are in Bluff. So we'll stop and

[3:18:47] have dinner before we get to the hotel

[3:18:49] in Blanding. Stay up in Blanding at the

[3:18:51] Stone Lizard which is a really nice

[3:18:53] hotel. um wake up in Blanding and then

[3:18:56] the next day uh we wanted to focus on

[3:18:59] start on resources basically and I was I

[3:19:02] was hoping to do most of that day in

[3:19:04] Lisbon Valley with Mike Mike's volunteer

[3:19:06] to help us out with that potentially go

[3:19:09] to the Mi Vita uranium mine and then

[3:19:12] also the copper mine there. Um and then

[3:19:15] also some overview kind of regional

[3:19:17] geology. Uh there we have that critical

[3:19:20] minerals mill is still on there. We

[3:19:22] tried to remove that yesterday. Um, that

[3:19:24] is an option that I guess if the board

[3:19:26] is really interested in, maybe we could

[3:19:28] tour the White Mesa Mill in Blanding,

[3:19:31] but it would really cut into our ability

[3:19:32] to go to Lisbon Valley and spend time

[3:19:34] there. So, I would I think we would have

[3:19:37] to choose [clears throat] either White

[3:19:39] Mesa or the Copper Mine.

[3:19:41] >> Yeah, sorry. We edited this slide

[3:19:43] yesterday to to take the

[3:19:45] >> Yeah, that should actually be in there.

[3:19:47] Um,

[3:19:47] >> so Lisbon Valley is also where the mine

[3:19:49] that Brian mentioned, the Mariana mine,

[3:19:52] um, new copper mine is as well. That

[3:19:54] copper name that Lisbon Valley copper

[3:19:56] mine's been rebranded.

[3:19:58] >> Yeah, we were leaning towards the copper

[3:20:01] mine just because it's a little bit more

[3:20:03] geology than seeing a processing mill.

[3:20:06] But I mean, this is the board feel.

[3:20:08] Yeah, that that's really what the point

[3:20:10] of this discussion here is what do you

[3:20:11] folks think about that? Are you okay

[3:20:13] with this idea of really making that

[3:20:15] second day focusing on Lisbon Valley and

[3:20:18] sort of Paradox Basin stuff near there?

[3:20:21] >> So, I'm unable to go, but I would

[3:20:23] recommend you guys go to the Copper

[3:20:25] Mine. They've done some cool things

[3:20:27] there.

[3:20:27] >> Oh, awesome. Thanks, Andy.

[3:20:30] Yeah,

[3:20:31] >> I'll take that as an affirmative towards

[3:20:34] >> I think it's better to go look in the

[3:20:36] field at the or body instead of a

[3:20:40] process.

[3:20:40] >> Yeah, that's the input I was hoping for.

[3:20:42] So, we'll just that will be formally

[3:20:44] scratched out at this stage. So, we

[3:20:45] really well focus at Lisbon Valley.

[3:20:47] We'll probably add in a stop or two

[3:20:49] related to strategraphy and then

[3:20:51] structure in the paradox basin. There's

[3:20:53] a couple good ones that we can tack on

[3:20:55] before and then after Lisbon Valley. So,

[3:20:57] we'll go to Lisbon Valley, tack on a

[3:20:59] couple stops, and then that evening,

[3:21:01] we'll end up in Moab. So, we'll be

[3:21:03] staying in Moab, dinner in Moab, and

[3:21:06] then wake up in Moab, and Friday will be

[3:21:08] our return day. Uh, I was talking with

[3:21:10] to Mike about this this morning. Um,

[3:21:14] Friday, we'll do a couple morning stops

[3:21:16] on Northern Paradox Basin Resources. So

[3:21:19] potentially a stop at the Big Flat Field

[3:21:21] which is on the way to Island in the Sky

[3:21:24] and then definitely a stop near Crystal

[3:21:26] Geyser at their site of recent cing and

[3:21:29] we'll bring along some of those cores,

[3:21:31] pull them out and talk about talk about

[3:21:34] that piece of work. And then after that

[3:21:37] we'll get in the vehicles and boogie

[3:21:39] back to Salt Lake so we can get you guys

[3:21:41] back here at 5 at the latest on Friday.

[3:21:45] >> So we got you for two nights this time.

[3:21:48] So, three, you know, three days, two

[3:21:50] pretty long days because we're going to

[3:21:51] ask you to meet at general radiation um

[3:21:55] at 8

[3:21:58] a.m.

[3:21:58] >> You'll also be driving through a lot of

[3:21:59] MOS and some of that recent MOS stuff,

[3:22:02] which is a huge interest right now in

[3:22:05] Eastern Utah. A lot of

[3:22:07] lease dollars.

[3:22:08] >> Yes. A

[3:22:08] >> lot of lease dollars that come to you

[3:22:10] guys,

[3:22:10] >> right?

[3:22:11] >> Yeah. You know, that's an that's an

[3:22:12] interesting comment because there is

[3:22:14] Kirkland has some stops that are that

[3:22:16] would be north of Green River that could

[3:22:18] be we might be able to tack one of those

[3:22:20] on

[3:22:20] >> depending on what you wanted to see if

[3:22:22] there's something right off the highway.

[3:22:24] >> That's a good idea.

[3:22:26] >> I found they have shark teeth, but

[3:22:27] they're also kind of

[3:22:28] >> there's some good photography in there.

[3:22:30] >> That could be a good idea. [laughter]

[3:22:31] >> That's a great suggestion.

[3:22:33] >> Um that's a that's our for our our board

[3:22:36] field trip this fall. We'll have more

[3:22:38] details coming up. We need to do some

[3:22:39] dry run and we've got some meetings to

[3:22:41] figure out some of the details, but I

[3:22:43] think we're all booked for rooms. We're

[3:22:45] booked for the plane and this general

[3:22:47] itinerary. So, it should be a good one.

[3:22:49] This is a really rare chance to go see

[3:22:51] this the Monument Valley geology on

[3:22:53] foot. It's really pretty. It's showy.

[3:22:56] And we've Matthew's got some new age

[3:22:58] information about that herotriacic

[3:23:00] contact and the units that join it or

[3:23:04] don't adjoin it. That's really

[3:23:05] interesting that he'll share.

[3:23:07] There's an important groundwater study

[3:23:09] um in Alento also you know one of the

[3:23:12] drivers for doing this mapping was to

[3:23:15] assist the Navajo Nation um with

[3:23:17] understanding their water resources

[3:23:20] there. So, a really key use of this

[3:23:24] mapping is to help, you know, a a

[3:23:27] community that's really, you know,

[3:23:30] challenged, uh, understand their water

[3:23:32] resources and make some pretty key

[3:23:34] decisions about where to spend some of

[3:23:36] their funds.

[3:23:37] >> We were really excited about this

[3:23:39] collaboration with the Navajo Nation for

[3:23:40] the Ghetto Quad. This is the first of

[3:23:42] its kind mapping on the nation. We went

[3:23:45] to them and said, "How can your

[3:23:46] priorities direct our science?" And they

[3:23:48] said, "We need help with groundwater."

[3:23:49] So, we actually put out a press release

[3:23:51] about this yesterday announcing the map

[3:23:53] is out and published. USGS has shared it

[3:23:55] broadly across their accounts. They're

[3:23:57] very proud of this collaboration. It's

[3:23:58] funded by the state map program. This is

[3:24:01] really really excellent work from UGS.

[3:24:03] Very jealous you folks are getting to go

[3:24:05] down and check it out.

[3:24:06] >> It's it's we've built a great

[3:24:08] relationship with them and we're it's

[3:24:09] one of the focal points of mapping going

[3:24:11] forward. We're really going to work on

[3:24:12] southeastern Utah to finish up those 30

[3:24:14] by60s bluff. will be starting on Bluff

[3:24:17] uh in part of the Bluff 30 by 60 in

[3:24:20] September.

[3:24:21] >> And to just close to close the loop on

[3:24:23] that, you know, grant match

[3:24:25] conversation,

[3:24:27] you know, for me as a director, that is

[3:24:30] a really great investment of our dollars

[3:24:34] is to support that 50% match for a

[3:24:37] project like that. That is where I like

[3:24:39] to see our general fund money, you know,

[3:24:41] being deployed. I can't think of a more,

[3:24:44] you know, strategically and statutoily

[3:24:48] important project than something like

[3:24:50] that where, you know, a community is

[3:24:52] able to use that mapping to make

[3:24:54] decisions about a really important

[3:24:55] resource.

[3:24:58] >> Okay. Well, look forward to that. Um,

[3:25:01] you guys don't have to bring your bed

[3:25:02] rolls like we did for Fish Springs. We

[3:25:04] get to eat out. We don't need coolers

[3:25:07] full of food. We saved a lot of money on

[3:25:09] that trip because we didn't pay hotel

[3:25:11] fees. So, we'll use it on this trip uh

[3:25:13] for the planes. Great investment. I'm

[3:25:15] really looking forward to the time we

[3:25:16] get to spend with you guys. So, okay,

[3:25:19] that brings us to future board meetings.

[3:25:22] We'll map these out. I asked Cheryl to

[3:25:24] put some suggested dates on here. This

[3:25:26] is basically based on what we've been

[3:25:29] doing in the past where we have our

[3:25:30] board meeting in the first week or two

[3:25:34] um of the month. I'm going to be honest

[3:25:37] with you that we have our staff meeting

[3:25:40] on the

[3:25:42] first or second Tuesday. Second Tuesday.

[3:25:45] And so what winds up happening is that

[3:25:48] I've got board meetings stacked on top

[3:25:50] of staff meeting. Our staff meeting was

[3:25:52] yesterday. And these are both um really

[3:25:55] important opportunities for us to engage

[3:25:58] with people. Right. I really like the

[3:25:59] opportunity to engage with our staff.

[3:26:01] Love the opportunity to engage with you.

[3:26:03] I'd like to suggest maybe we spread

[3:26:05] those out a little bit. Um, so we could

[3:26:08] look at doing our board meetings the

[3:26:11] third week of the month. This also puts

[3:26:14] us, you know, everybody's coming back

[3:26:17] from the holidays on this date and

[3:26:19] trying to remember what they do for a

[3:26:20] living. And um, so again, this is your

[3:26:24] meeting, so I'll let you guys kind of

[3:26:26] think about these dates. Um, but it

[3:26:28] would be great to, you know, calendar

[3:26:30] these and we can get them on your

[3:26:32] calendars. Um,

[3:26:34] >> 13 works better for me.

[3:26:35] >> And those are the first and second weeks

[3:26:37] of

[3:26:38] >> these are the first and second. So, you

[3:26:40] know, add a week, add a week, add a

[3:26:42] week.

[3:26:43] >> And we can go back and forth, too. We're

[3:26:45] not we're not carved into stone here.

[3:26:48] >> So, I I think I would say that I would

[3:26:51] offer a little later in each month

[3:26:53] generally will work better for us. We'll

[3:26:55] have less conflicts with uh our staff

[3:26:57] meeting or at least less stacking.

[3:26:59] There's not necessarily conflict just

[3:27:01] makes bunch of big meetings back to

[3:27:03] back.

[3:27:04] >> Does anybody have any conflicts later

[3:27:06] January 6?

[3:27:10] » Okay. What about the 20th?

[3:27:12] >> How about So yeah, do you want to check

[3:27:14] your calendars for the 20th? And Cheryl,

[3:27:16] will you

[3:27:18] and then Cheryl when we get some dates

[3:27:20] down

[3:27:22] invite so we block off your

[3:27:25] >> 20th

[3:27:27] >> works

[3:27:28] >> April 21 we just do it for all of them

[3:27:30] >> if you guys Okay. So January 20th,

[3:27:35] >> April 21,

[3:27:38] >> August 25th.

[3:27:39] >> So the important point here is that we'd

[3:27:41] be moving to the

[3:27:42] >> third day of the third week basically in

[3:27:45] the month.

[3:27:46] >> Mike brings up an an important point.

[3:27:48] >> Legislative session starts on 199.

[3:27:51] >> Legislative session starts on the 19th.

[3:27:54] >> Traditionally or historically, we

[3:27:55] haven't presented until the third week,

[3:27:57] >> but you never know.

[3:27:58] So there may be

[3:28:00] maybe we will have to consider an

[3:28:02] adjustment here of doing that board

[3:28:03] meeting right before the week before the

[3:28:05] legislature.

[3:28:09] » Nice.

[3:28:10] >> Yeah. Well, okay. Right. We we have the

[3:28:14] controller of presentation dates sitting

[3:28:17] here with us. So I would be are we do we

[3:28:21] need to be at that first meeting? It's

[3:28:24] just if you want to have the board

[3:28:26] meeting right at the start of the

[3:28:27] session or the week before the session,

[3:28:29] >> you probably don't need to be at that

[3:28:30] first session.

[3:28:32] >> I can be

[3:28:34] someone else can date.

[3:28:35] >> We can certainly find a way to cover it.

[3:28:36] Yeah.

[3:28:38] Do the board meeting. It's just whether

[3:28:40] we have

[3:28:40] >> We can just do that meeting on the 13th

[3:28:42] and

[3:28:42] >> and do the other ones on the third.

[3:28:44] >> What if we do this one on the 13th and

[3:28:46] do the rest of them on the third week?

[3:28:48] You guys okay on the 13th? Is that

[3:28:50] January?

[3:28:51] >> Yeah. And if we need to, we'll move

[3:28:53] staff meeting.

[3:28:55] >> Okay. January 13th. Neil, is that gonna

[3:28:58] be okay with whatever you had on?

[3:29:00] >> Yeah, I just have a conference on the

[3:29:02] 6th through like whatever the end of the

[3:29:03] week.

[3:29:04] >> Okay. Spending the morning with us on

[3:29:06] the 13th.

[3:29:08] >> Yeah, the 13th should be fine. That's

[3:29:09] the following week, correct?

[3:29:11] >> Yeah, that's okay.

[3:29:14] >> Okay. And in August, the 18th is

[3:29:16] actually the third week. Our staff

[3:29:18] meeting is the 10th. It starts beginning

[3:29:20] of the month. So, okay, the 25th would

[3:29:23] be the fourth week. That's fine if you

[3:29:24] want to do it then. Whatever.

[3:29:29] » Why don't we stick with that third week?

[3:29:32] >> Okay. So, January 13th January 13th,

[3:29:35] >> April 21st

[3:29:40] » and August 18th.

[3:29:44] » Yes.

[3:29:46] Okay. [clears throat]

[3:29:46] >> I'll send

[3:29:49] >> Okay. Thank you very much. Yeah.

[3:29:52] >> Uh and then board field trip. I don't

[3:29:53] know. Let's talk about it on this field

[3:29:55] trip. We'll talk about where where to

[3:29:56] take you guys.

[3:29:57] >> Los back. I'll put that out there. We've

[3:29:59] got a bunch of new stuff that's

[3:30:01] happened. What? It could be like Cash

[3:30:03] Valley and down more of a local trip.

[3:30:05] >> That's an option.

[3:30:06] >> I so much.

[3:30:08] >> I like it.

[3:30:09] >> Yeah. Little cheaper.

[3:30:11] >> Could be cheaper. Yeah. offset the cost

[3:30:14] [laughter]

[3:30:17] out over three three years. [laughter]

[3:30:20] >> So I I had one last point before we we

[3:30:23] formally close quickly. Um the geologic

[3:30:26] mapping group is overseen by a state map

[3:30:29] advisory councly

[3:30:32] Becky. Um she is more or less ready to

[3:30:37] step down from that role.

[3:30:39] >> Yeah. Well, I I want to say I've been

[3:30:42] the the chair of this map for six years.

[3:30:47] I keep thinking it's eight years because

[3:30:50] I was a member of this this map for two

[3:30:53] years uh when I was working and I thought, well, wait a minute.

[3:31:01] Okay, I've been a chair for six years.

[3:31:03] Well, maybe somebody else

[3:31:05] uh on the board would like the

[3:31:08] opportunity uh because

[3:31:12] it's fun, it's interesting, and now

[3:31:16] Stefan has it down to the science. I

[3:31:20] mean, the he's he's got the process

[3:31:23] worked out. It's it's efficient. Uh they

[3:31:28] get all their deliverables in on time.

[3:31:31] Uh, it's it's it's it's great. Um, so

[3:31:38] I thought just maybe it was time for me

[3:31:41] to see if anybody else would would like

[3:31:44] to do it.

[3:31:45] >> Yeah. And we've almost always had, well,

[3:31:47] I should say, as far as I can tell, we

[3:31:49] have always had a Smack chair that has

[3:31:51] been a board member, either current or

[3:31:53] past. It's a really good fit for this

[3:31:56] role because you understand the survey

[3:31:58] and you broadly understand what's going

[3:32:00] on in Utah. The actual commitment comes

[3:32:02] down to basically we have a half-day

[3:32:05] meeting in late October that you attend

[3:32:07] and kind of run as a chairperson where

[3:32:10] we go over uh the program and then what

[3:32:12] our proposal will be and then after that

[3:32:16] uh you prepare a letter of support

[3:32:18] basically for our proposal. Those are

[3:32:20] the two primary tasks. So it's a

[3:32:22] relatively low lift. Um, I put it out

[3:32:25] there to this group. Again, I would

[3:32:27] really love if one of the board members

[3:32:29] uh would be willing.

[3:32:30] >> What's your date in October?

[3:32:31] >> I think it's the We haven't quite set

[3:32:34] that. We usually do it the either Monday

[3:32:35] or Tuesday of the final week of October.

[3:32:39] >> Do Tuesday instead of Monday

[3:32:41] >> that love to sign up

[3:32:42] >> if you're interested. I mean, again, I

[3:32:45] think you Riley, you could be a

[3:32:47] wonderful candidate for this.

[3:32:49] >> I'm opinionated about that. [laughter]

[3:32:52] Well, and and and that's and and

[3:32:54] actually that's what we're looking for,

[3:32:55] right? And and actually any of you guys

[3:32:58] would make great Smack members as well.

[3:33:01] And the input is really important. Where

[3:33:04] do we go next? And what are the drivers

[3:33:06] for where we're mapping, right? Is it

[3:33:08] development related?

[3:33:10] >> Is it industry? [laughter] Right. Riley

[3:33:14] is vocal and opinionated

[3:33:17] as you all should be.

[3:33:18] >> Yeah. The committee is a group right

[3:33:20] now. I think we have 20 people who are

[3:33:22] on the committee as state folks who are

[3:33:25] have some [clears throat] vested

[3:33:27] interest in mapping.

[3:33:28] >> Doug's probably on it.

[3:33:29] >> No, Doug is not. Um we have the previous

[3:33:32] mappers commonly attend some of the

[3:33:34] retired folks. Interestingly enough, we

[3:33:37] have representatives from all the

[3:33:38] universities and then all the principal

[3:33:41] um kind of areas of geologic work like

[3:33:44] groundwater hazards, minerals, soil and

[3:33:47] gas, all that kind of stuff. So

[3:33:49] >> BLM form for service federal partners.

[3:33:53] >> Yeah, that's the goal is to get the user

[3:33:55] community and make sure that whatever

[3:33:57] we're doing with mapping or field

[3:33:59] geology in the state.

[3:34:04] » Yeah.

[3:34:04] >> Okay. Well, you're you're hired as far.

[3:34:11] [laughter]

[3:34:15] » Yeah, that's great. Thank you. Yeah,

[3:34:17] this kind of the insights that you guys

[3:34:19] bring are important for us, right? We

[3:34:22] don't work in a vacuum and we're not

[3:34:24] sitting around here doing science for

[3:34:25] the sake of doing science. We have a

[3:34:27] mission and we want to make sure that,

[3:34:29] you know, we're we're going in

[3:34:30] [clears throat] the right direction. The

[3:34:31] support is a great piece of that for us.

[3:34:35] So,

[3:34:36] >> oh, and [clears throat] uh just got the

[3:34:39] award from USG USGS.

[3:34:43] >> Yeah, we did. I didn't see that on our

[3:34:45] thing, but we had a record state map

[3:34:46] award.

[3:34:48] So 660 for two years of federal money.

[3:34:51] So total value is about 1.3

[3:34:54] worth of mapping. And then we funded a

[3:34:56] bunch of because state map is like a

[3:34:58] Swiss Army knife. We've funded some

[3:35:00] other interesting things. a 3D study on

[3:35:02] the mangos in the UA basin that Ryan G

[3:35:05] do and then a stratographic study of the

[3:35:07] Cedar Mountain formation that Jim

[3:35:09] Kirkland to try to capture his knowledge

[3:35:12] of that unit. So

[3:35:17] » it starts it'll start technically start

[3:35:20] in like November

[3:35:22] >> or not November sorry uh September. I

[3:35:24] was gonna make our match grant curve go

[3:35:26] back up again.

[3:35:28] >> Not significantly. [laughter]

[3:35:35] We I'm not afraid brand match. It's, you

[3:35:38] know, it's what we do, right? We just

[3:35:40] want to make sure that it's it's really

[3:35:41] strategically deployed.

[3:35:43] >> We were lucky because as staff

[3:35:45] mentioned, we have those 0% that the

[3:35:48] offset offet

[3:35:52] map will be comparable next year.

[3:35:54] >> Yeah. I mean most of the match that

[3:35:56] you're seeing there is state map anyway

[3:35:57] and state map is remarkably consistent.

[3:36:00] We always get plus or minus about 10% of

[3:36:03] that amount. So it's usually 600ishk

[3:36:07] worth of match to fund.

[3:36:11] » Any questions or followups before we

[3:36:15] close out? Any thoughts from Brian's

[3:36:18] presentation or our finances or anything

[3:36:21] else that

[3:36:24] >> Yes,

[3:36:25] >> this isn't profound or anything, but I

[3:36:27] have a little house in Moab and I might

[3:36:29] be down there in October and I'm want to

[3:36:31] go on the field trip obviously, but

[3:36:34] >> if I do decide to do that, can I just be

[3:36:36] there? Yes.

[3:36:37] >> Get picked up by the

[3:36:39] >> You could get picked up by the For sure.

[3:36:41] It's It's Oh, as opposed to take the

[3:36:43] plane. Yeah, because we do again we have

[3:36:44] to we do have the the two of the cars

[3:36:46] we'll have to drive to the day before.

[3:36:49] >> So the one catch would be if if you're

[3:36:51] going to do that let us know. We'll need

[3:36:52] to get your room in Monument Valley for

[3:36:54] the sixth.

[3:36:56] >> Okay. I will make that decision in the

[3:36:58] next week. [clears throat]

[3:37:00] >> Okay. Get back.

[3:37:01] >> Okay. Let us know on the plane. So we

[3:37:04] might do some math.

[3:37:07] >> Okay.

[3:37:08] >> It's just a great time to be down there.

[3:37:10] It is a great time to be out there. And

[3:37:12] yeah, if you want to get picked up on

[3:37:14] the way, it'll just it'll cut into your

[3:37:15] time a little bit because they'll pick

[3:37:16] you up a day earlier because everybody

[3:37:18] has the vehicles. It's it's a hall. So,

[3:37:23] sure. Yeah. Whatever works out for you.

[3:37:24] Is everybody else

[3:37:26] >> on board with um riding down on the on

[3:37:29] the state plane? I'll just go back to

[3:37:31] this.

[3:37:32] >> Um everybody else is planning on coming.

[3:37:35] >> You're cool with us just leaving the

[3:37:36] cars here at the course a little?

[3:37:39] Yes. Uh, no, you'll be leaving. Yes,

[3:37:42] you'll be meeting here. So, your cars

[3:37:44] will be be secured behind the gate. Then

[3:37:47] we will carpool you over to general

[3:37:50] aviation, which is where the state plane

[3:37:54] um takes off from. You'll get a safety

[3:37:56] briefing before you hop on the plane. It

[3:37:59] is a small plane. So, yeah, it's not

[3:38:02] like

[3:38:04] it's not a jet. It's a Beachcraft. When

[3:38:07] you park, I suggest not parking along

[3:38:09] the fence line because we've had damaged

[3:38:12] vehicles right along the fence line. So,

[3:38:14] park in

[3:38:17] >> I guess they can throw things.

[3:38:19] >> Yeah.

[3:38:22] [laughter]

[3:38:24] » There is there is some talk we're

[3:38:26] starting to talk formally about this DNR

[3:38:29] campus.

[3:38:30] >> So, including the course. So,

[3:38:34] >> it's it's coming for us. Uh we will

[3:38:37] probably need some sort of building

[3:38:38] block or something when it comes time to

[3:38:40] think about a new home for the core

[3:38:42] center. Expensive to move

[3:38:44] >> uh two to three years. The core center

[3:38:46] is a big thing that we will probably

[3:38:48] need. We're going to need board help to make sure that we get it done

[3:38:51] properly. They're going to downsize this

[3:38:53] too because life sucks and then we die.

[3:38:56] But

[3:38:57] >> this I'm glad you brought that up

[3:38:59] because this is a topic that we might

[3:39:00] want to address in more detail at future

[3:39:03] board meeting kind of planning about

[3:39:05] this potential move, right? Because and

[3:39:07] what it's going to take because the the

[3:39:09] core center is a big deal.

[3:39:10] >> It is a big deal. We have dealer

[3:39:12] leadership on board. They realize how

[3:39:14] important this facility is. Um but um it

[3:39:19] is it's coming and so I think we just

[3:39:21] need to plan for it. Um do the cost to

[3:39:24] move. have a I've asked ammon and Mike

[3:39:26] to put together a pretty comprehensive

[3:39:28] proposal about what we need for a new

[3:39:29] core center facility like needs needs

[3:39:33] and wants right larger education center

[3:39:35] better viewing area better temperature

[3:39:37] control you know so I think I think this

[3:39:40] is a plus for us on the downside it's

[3:39:43] just going to be painful to go through

[3:39:45] it so more capacity we've got we're

[3:39:48] turning core away that we could be

[3:39:50] bringing in so I think I actually think

[3:39:53] that this is a great opportunity for us.

[3:39:55] It's just going to be it's going to be

[3:39:57] hard. We're going to need a little help

[3:39:58] from the legislature to to move. I don't

[3:40:01] know if you've been Yes, you have been

[3:40:02] back there. So, Lacy has seen what's

[3:40:05] back there. So, we'll work together on

[3:40:07] that. But again, I'm optimistic about the outcome for this.

[3:40:11] >> You stay in Southern Valley. You go to

[3:40:14] Valley.

[3:40:14] >> Um the court

[3:40:18] possibly just right down the street.

[3:40:19] It's very likely that we'll be in this

[3:40:21] northwest quadrant part of Salt Lake.

[3:40:23] >> And there's a lot there is a lot of

[3:40:26] existing warehouse.

[3:40:28] >> We'll see. We don't want

[3:40:30] >> Yeah, we'll be okay.

[3:40:36] » Really appreciate it. Very good.

[3:40:38] >> Very good. Thank you.

[3:40:44] » Where's the prison?

[3:40:45] >> Well, it's going to be easy for the mic

[3:40:46] because it's right by [snorts]

[3:40:50] >> [clears throat]

[3:40:53] [laughter]

[3:40:54] >> is 1210 and we formally now the meeting

[3:41:04] board meeting

[3:41:12] is

UGS Board Meeting 8/12/2026

Transcript