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Okay.

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Good evening ladies and gentlemen.

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Welcome to the zoning Board of Adjustment.

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Please rise for the pledge of Allegiance,

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P of Allegiance two, the United States of America

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to the Republic for which stands under God in his role.

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Liberty Justice for all.

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Alright, and good evening to everybody.

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Please shut off all cell phones, iPhones,

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any electronic gadgets that could create a distraction

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of the proceedings in the event of an emergency.

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Please exit to the rear of the room.

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Do not use the elevator.

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These proceedings are audio video recorded

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and scheduled to end at 10:00 PM That being said,

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let's start with, continue

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with introductions from the board. Tell my left,

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My name's Brent LaSow, Michael Donlin, Richard Trip,

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Lynn Perkins, chair Craig

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Corbett, vice Chair Gas Biba, Jim Dietzel,

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And we have code enforcement.

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All the way down to the right. It's Kerry Owen,

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and our clerk is Eileen Boudreaux.

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Got your name this time. And

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so without any further hesitation, let's move on.

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The first case is 20 dash 12 three.

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Mr. Omba, would you sit on this, please?

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Yes, Mr. Chair. All right, thank you.

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This is a request for extension from

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representing the ney

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Point of order.

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Mr. Chair. I am a permanent member

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now we still only have four.

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Mr. Dietzel. Excuse me, sir,

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we still only have four members election.

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What's your point? I just wanted to, well, I wanted

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to clarify that I was on this.

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I forgot that we had four. Congratulations. Oh, thank you.

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You good? Thank you. I'm good, thank you. All right.

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Thank you Mr. Chair. Good enough.

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Promised land survey representing the Steven

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and Shannon Ney.

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This is a request for an extension.

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I'm gonna zip over to Ms. Owen.

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You refer, do you recall the, well, actually,

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let me back up for a second.

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'cause we just, I just got a notice.

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Ms. Owen and I were speaking of this, just anybody here

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for two Scottish Way, which is case number 26 dash 1 0 6.

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That case is not being heard tonight.

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Sorry, the extension for variances, not

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remembering it right offhand,

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but we have given two extensions on this statute says two

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year one, two year extension.

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Am I correct? Correct.

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Two year. All right.

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So anything else from staff on

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that you wish to share with us?

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No, we, we've kind of reviewed this on a conceptual level

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a few weeks ago or so, maybe a month ago or so.

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And the applicant had seems to be going in the,

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in the direction that will meet our regulations.

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So I think it's an it, it comes before us today

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and is moving forward in the TRC process.

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So, so they are in that process now.

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We have it scheduled, I believe

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is it next Friday the 10th, the 17th.

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All right. April 17th

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In the immediate foreseeable future. Correct.

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In Two weeks. Is this, is this a

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requiring planning board review?

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Yes, it will. Alright, And where are they at in this?

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So this is a subdivision. Okay.

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At five for land.

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Sorry for jumping around.

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Been a lot of things jumping out at us all week. Right?

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Oh, sorry. You're looking for more information.

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So the original ask, so there, there's

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an existing duplex on the property.

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They're looking to subdivide to add a second lot

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with a proposed duplex.

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And that's scheduled for planning as well.

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That will move from TRC to planning? Correct. Alright,

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Very good.

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I would say that if neither of those were the case,

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I would have voted to suspend the variance or,

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or not grant the extension.

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Thank you for that input. My feelings were just expressed.

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Anybody else have anything they wish to add here

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or question regarding this first case? No,

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It seems, it seems like a fair request with the

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uncertainty currently at play.

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Okay, Mr. Omba? I'm all set. All right. Mr.

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Trip, you all right with an extension? Sure.

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Okay. Alright, very good.

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Let's read a motion there.

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Would you like to read the motion Mr.

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Trip or would you like me to?

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I'll read the motion. Alright,

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Good enough.

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Thank you.

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Are we ready? Go ahead.

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I make a motion on case number 20 dash 1 23

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to grant a variance extension for Steven

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and Shannon Vadney ney five Fernand

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Fernand Drive as allowed per state statute

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parcel number ID 3 1 0 1 7 dash zero

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one dash 0 0 2.

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Zone MHR two.

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All right. Very good. Mr. Cor,

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I need a second.

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I'll second That. Thank you Mr. Rou. Mr.

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Corbe, you have a finding fact established for this.

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I know it's so out of the ordinary, right?

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Finding a fact for case

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20 dash 1 23.

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The request for extension board found that due to

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there have previously been two, two year extensions granted

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for this variance that was originally granted on

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June 4th, 2020, granting relief from the terms

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of Article six, section 1 65 dash 45 1A

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to allow the construction of a two-family dwelling

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after the subdivision of the subject property within the M

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HDR two zoning district.

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Due to feedback with the town staff

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and at the TRC review, it has been recommended

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for an extension to place this on hold for the time being.

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Does the board have any addendums

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or additions to make to this?

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Seeing none. All right.

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All in favor moving this for a vote. All thank you

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sheet.

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There we go. All right. Mr. Bumba? Yes.

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Mr. Trip? Yes. Mr. Corbet? Yes. Who would I, Mr.

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Dietzel? Yes. And the CH chair will make that unanimous.

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So extension is granted.

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All right, next up we have

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case number 26 dash 1 0 5 motion for re-hearing,

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referencing the draft minutes.

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I'm not prepared to vote on this.

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We, the board is accepting the application for rehearing

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without a, a decisive yes or no this evening.

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So I need a motion to table that

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to the next scheduled meeting.

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So moved. Thank you. Second. Seconded by Mr. Donlin.

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All in favor of that motion say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed?

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Hearing none. So we'll hear that, that motion

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for rehearing decide at the next meeting is Owen.

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Okay. Next up we have

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case number 26 dash 1 0 7, which is Byrd Enterprises,

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LLC Jay Yako, dually authorized

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and representation here.

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Very good. Gentlemen, come right up.

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Thank you very much Mr. Chair.

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Greetings of the Honorable Board.

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Just remind me of your name if you would.

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Yes, my name is Christopher Drescher.

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I am an attorney with Cronin Bis and Zelinsky.

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John Cronin had a family thing he couldn't get out

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of tonight, so I'm pinch hitting tonight.

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Alright, well welcome. What we ask for protocol is just

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that you read the five criteria.

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Yep. And then the floor is yours to

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go about how you'd like. Great,

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Well thank you very much.

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I'll just give a a brief in introduction again.

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I'm Chris Drescher and I'm here on behalf

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of Bird Enterprises LLC.

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With me tonight is the human behind

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that corporate entity Jay Eneco.

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The address at issue is 1 8 7 Hempstead Road,

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Hempstead Road, excuse me.

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In New Hampshire, the requested relief is a variance from

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dairy zoning ordinance Article 12

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Roman 12, section 1 65 dash 1 0 1 0.1.

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For the record, the property itself is 8.76 acres.

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It's in the low medium density residential district.

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It's known as having a former vacant Catholic church there

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and has sat empty since 2020.

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Mr. Dreher? Yes. Could I pause you for just one second Mr.

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Donlin, would you sit on this please? Yes sir.

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Alright, I'm sorry I didn't mean

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To break.

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No problem at all, Mr. Chair.

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Well, no, it's quite all right.

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So from 2020 to 2025,

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there were few attempts to make use of this property.

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None of them were successful,

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but in January 25, the applicant purchased the property

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with the intent of redeveloping it with two businesses.

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The first business is a sports education facility

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for youth athletes.

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Primary focus is baseball.

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But I'd like to make a a point

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to put an emphasis on the educational piece of that.

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The other use is the that of a nursery

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and a landscaping business.

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The applicant tends to

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relocate established businesses from Wyndham to dairy.

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Historically, they used to call it the church.

201
00:10:01,185 --> 00:10:05,085
For what that's worth, this property is considerably larger

202
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than any of the other surrounding lots in the area.

203
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And that's probably giving this property its most

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distinguishable characteristic.

205
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The only other property in that area

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that comes close is a five acre lot at one

207
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90 Hampstead Road.

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Otherwise, every other lot in the immediate area is roughly

209
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three, 3.5 acres or so or or less.

210
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And we did attach a tax map, if I'm not mistaken

211
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to the application, where you can see that for yourself.

212
00:10:29,035 --> 00:10:30,485
It's a commercial use on this,

213
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on this lot and it is allowed.

214
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So we need some adequate signage so that folks

215
00:10:35,525 --> 00:10:37,805
that are trying to find this property by car can find it.

216
00:10:39,195 --> 00:10:40,565
This two business set up

217
00:10:40,565 --> 00:10:41,925
that they're gonna have there is quite unique

218
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and it lends itself to a a, a good use there

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that's gonna bring some jobs and property tax and business.

220
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And as with any business, you need a sign.

221
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Now the only signs that your ordinance allows are

222
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for residential properties.

223
00:10:55,315 --> 00:10:56,725
When I read that section of the ordinance,

224
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it looks like it's three square feet

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and you're allowed your name and address,

226
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which is, I dunno, essentially a mailbox.

227
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And then if you have a home occupation, you can have,

228
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you know, some, some other small signage.

229
00:11:07,305 --> 00:11:10,445
But it simply does not allow for commercial signage.

230
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Although the applicant's use is allowed strict conformance

231
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with your ordinance would not allow for any kind

232
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of logical commercial type signage.

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And that is why we are here for relief.

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Now, as we all know, the applicant was already here

235
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last summer asking for a variance

236
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for this very matter back in 2025.

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And that sign included an electronic reader

238
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component to it.

239
00:11:38,265 --> 00:11:40,005
Now this ZBA did grant

240
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that variance, I believe three to two.

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It was ultimately reversed by the superior court.

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Now, in light of that court's decision,

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what the applicant has tried to do is materially

244
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change the circumstances so that we can come back here

245
00:11:54,045 --> 00:11:56,205
and try and do this again under different circumstances.

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And what he has done is he's removed that reader board.

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It seemed that the reader board was certainly the central

248
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point of the court's analysis as well as a lot

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of the opposition to the sign.

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So he's taken that off and,

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and we have a, a typical pylon that is in,

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in the application that you can see for yourself.

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And once I'm done with the five criteria,

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I have the applicant here to answer any

255
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technical questions about that sign.

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So with those elements, the variance will not be contrary

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to the public interest because, well the lawful,

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the legal standard for this prong

259
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is if you grant the variance, will it one

260
00:12:34,895 --> 00:12:36,805
alter the essential character of the neighborhood

261
00:12:37,705 --> 00:12:41,405
or two negatively impact the health, safety

262
00:12:41,545 --> 00:12:43,325
and welfare of the public.

263
00:12:44,285 --> 00:12:47,125
And I always like to throw in the same case that cites

264
00:12:47,125 --> 00:12:50,685
that also says, you know, mere conflict with the ordinance

265
00:12:51,465 --> 00:12:53,005
is insufficient as all.

266
00:12:53,665 --> 00:12:55,885
Or you know, all variances are gonna be somewhat

267
00:12:55,885 --> 00:12:56,965
averse to an ordinance.

268
00:12:57,125 --> 00:12:58,205
I always like to make that point.

269
00:12:58,965 --> 00:13:02,045
I also like to make this point too with prong one,

270
00:13:02,185 --> 00:13:04,205
the variance will not be contrary to public interest.

271
00:13:04,205 --> 00:13:06,005
Well that's in the negative, right?

272
00:13:06,005 --> 00:13:08,445
So we don't have to prove it's in the public interest, just

273
00:13:08,445 --> 00:13:10,525
that it's not contrary to the public interest.

274
00:13:11,265 --> 00:13:14,125
So what the applicant is trying to do here is to seek

275
00:13:14,125 --> 00:13:15,485
to reuse an existing building

276
00:13:15,485 --> 00:13:16,765
that was once a Catholic church,

277
00:13:17,385 --> 00:13:20,525
the proposed use in the zone is allowed.

278
00:13:20,665 --> 00:13:21,925
And the only variance that we need

279
00:13:21,925 --> 00:13:24,165
and we're asking for is to allow for this sign.

280
00:13:25,085 --> 00:13:27,365
A sign is customary addition to any business.

281
00:13:28,385 --> 00:13:29,405
Now we don't contend

282
00:13:29,405 --> 00:13:31,965
that this pylon sign is gonna overburden the property

283
00:13:32,425 --> 00:13:35,005
or the character of the neighborhood as this.

284
00:13:35,005 --> 00:13:39,805
There's always been a non-residential use at this

285
00:13:40,125 --> 00:13:43,605
property and the church itself had a sign when it was there.

286
00:13:43,825 --> 00:13:46,005
So it's kind of always been a sign present there.

287
00:13:47,195 --> 00:13:50,165
More importantly though, this lot is over eight acres

288
00:13:50,785 --> 00:13:55,125
and the size of the sign that we're proposing here seems

289
00:13:55,125 --> 00:13:57,765
to be logical and appropriate for the size of the lot.

290
00:13:59,685 --> 00:14:03,605
Secondly, it's worth mentioning that the business

291
00:14:03,605 --> 00:14:05,925
that's gonna be there, that one of the businesses

292
00:14:05,925 --> 00:14:08,045
for the sign is this baseball school.

293
00:14:08,255 --> 00:14:10,925
Right? So emphasis again on school,

294
00:14:11,435 --> 00:14:13,325
I've never seen a school that didn't have a sign.

295
00:14:14,545 --> 00:14:16,805
And secondly here we have a school, it's an athletic one

296
00:14:16,805 --> 00:14:18,085
but it's a school and this is one

297
00:14:18,085 --> 00:14:20,565
where you're gonna have parents doing the as as a parent

298
00:14:20,565 --> 00:14:23,765
to a 6-year-old, the proverbial drop off in pickups.

299
00:14:24,055 --> 00:14:27,725
Right? Those parents are gonna need to sign to know where,

300
00:14:27,735 --> 00:14:28,765
where to turn into.

301
00:14:28,905 --> 00:14:30,805
Mr. Chair? Yes sir. I'm sorry

302
00:14:30,805 --> 00:14:34,325
To interrupt if I may, just for the interest of the

303
00:14:34,855 --> 00:14:36,645
kinda getting on the record, could you please just read

304
00:14:36,915 --> 00:14:38,045
exactly as it's written

305
00:14:38,065 --> 00:14:40,565
and then once you finish, dive into all

306
00:14:40,565 --> 00:14:42,605
of everything else? Oh, okay. Thank you.

307
00:14:42,915 --> 00:14:43,765
That is our normal

308
00:14:44,085 --> 00:14:45,165
protocol, however, that's a normal protocol.

309
00:14:45,165 --> 00:14:47,605
I apologize and I, you know, try to emphasize that.

310
00:14:47,665 --> 00:14:50,285
But to understand there's time available.

311
00:14:50,565 --> 00:14:52,965
I, I let it go but I'm fine with Mr.

312
00:14:53,115 --> 00:14:54,885
Corby's request. That's fine. Thank

313
00:14:54,885 --> 00:14:55,885
You.

314
00:14:55,885 --> 00:14:56,685
Just helps me keep it a little straighter

315
00:14:56,685 --> 00:14:58,405
as I don't lose my spot on the page.

316
00:15:04,715 --> 00:15:06,725
Essentially what's written we want on the record.

317
00:15:06,965 --> 00:15:09,645
I understand it considered a sworn testimony.

318
00:15:09,945 --> 00:15:11,485
Got it. Alright.

319
00:15:11,485 --> 00:15:13,725
So then going back to that variance will not be contrary

320
00:15:13,725 --> 00:15:15,005
to the public interest because in order

321
00:15:15,005 --> 00:15:16,525
to determine if a variance is contrary

322
00:15:16,525 --> 00:15:17,925
to the public interest, the zoning board

323
00:15:17,925 --> 00:15:20,285
of adjustment must determine if the requested relief alters

324
00:15:20,285 --> 00:15:22,045
the essential character of the neighborhood

325
00:15:22,185 --> 00:15:24,405
or threatens public health, safety or welfare.

326
00:15:24,405 --> 00:15:25,605
That is the harbor side case

327
00:15:26,505 --> 00:15:29,565
1 62 New Hampshire 5 0 8 2011.

328
00:15:30,385 --> 00:15:32,885
The applicant seeks to reuse an existing building

329
00:15:32,885 --> 00:15:34,085
that was once a Catholic church.

330
00:15:34,105 --> 00:15:36,525
The proposed use is allowed in the zone

331
00:15:37,145 --> 00:15:39,405
and the only variance required is for signage.

332
00:15:39,645 --> 00:15:42,245
A sign is a customary addition to any business

333
00:15:42,355 --> 00:15:44,925
because the pylon sign will not overburden the property,

334
00:15:44,925 --> 00:15:46,685
the character of the neighborhood will not change.

335
00:15:47,465 --> 00:15:48,485
The sign will not threaten

336
00:15:48,485 --> 00:15:49,805
public health, safety, or welfare.

337
00:15:50,105 --> 00:15:51,605
On the contrary, the sign will

338
00:15:52,155 --> 00:15:54,245
help make the allowed use safer.

339
00:15:54,985 --> 00:15:57,965
The signage will n not impact sight lines on the roads

340
00:15:57,965 --> 00:15:59,765
and it will assist people in finding the property.

341
00:16:00,425 --> 00:16:01,805
The sign is an overall benefit

342
00:16:01,805 --> 00:16:03,405
to public health, safety and welfare.

343
00:16:04,465 --> 00:16:06,045
The spirit of the ordinance is observed

344
00:16:06,045 --> 00:16:09,605
because the intent of the zoning, any zoning ordinance is

345
00:16:09,605 --> 00:16:12,205
to protect health, safety, and welfare of the community.

346
00:16:12,715 --> 00:16:15,205
Signage will assist these goals by making

347
00:16:15,825 --> 00:16:17,365
an allowed use safer.

348
00:16:17,905 --> 00:16:20,325
The proposed sign will not include any reader boards

349
00:16:20,325 --> 00:16:23,685
or electronic signage making traffic flow.

350
00:16:23,735 --> 00:16:26,125
Safer traffic is within the spirit of the ordinance.

351
00:16:26,755 --> 00:16:28,165
Substantial justice is done

352
00:16:28,165 --> 00:16:31,125
because substantial justice is measured by whether the loss

353
00:16:31,125 --> 00:16:32,365
of the applicant in the event

354
00:16:32,385 --> 00:16:34,405
of a variance denied outweighs any gain

355
00:16:34,405 --> 00:16:36,325
to the general public In denying the variance.

356
00:16:36,475 --> 00:16:38,965
Here, the applicant has two businesses that are allowed

357
00:16:38,965 --> 00:16:40,045
to operate on the property,

358
00:16:40,065 --> 00:16:41,605
but the zoning ordinance does not allow

359
00:16:41,605 --> 00:16:43,005
for signage to the property.

360
00:16:43,615 --> 00:16:47,405
Signs are important for any business without it finding the

361
00:16:47,565 --> 00:16:49,565
business would be difficult and the applicant would be

362
00:16:49,565 --> 00:16:51,885
barred from a basic form of advertisement.

363
00:16:52,465 --> 00:16:54,925
The public would not see any gain in denying the variance.

364
00:16:54,925 --> 00:16:56,405
Rather it would be a detriment to traffic

365
00:16:56,785 --> 00:16:58,565
and the proposed sign would not negatively

366
00:16:58,585 --> 00:16:59,645
impact the general public.

367
00:17:00,665 --> 00:17:03,365
The value of surrounding properties are not diminished

368
00:17:03,365 --> 00:17:05,165
because there's no indication

369
00:17:05,165 --> 00:17:07,165
that a sign will impact the surrounding property values.

370
00:17:07,425 --> 00:17:09,845
The sign does not encroach onto abutting properties

371
00:17:09,845 --> 00:17:11,205
and will not obstruct any views.

372
00:17:11,825 --> 00:17:14,885
The sign will be, the sign will not have the reader board.

373
00:17:15,025 --> 00:17:17,325
So any concern regarding the moving signs

374
00:17:17,545 --> 00:17:20,885
or a a sign is moot hardship.

375
00:17:21,225 --> 00:17:24,485
The property is a commercial property in a residential zone.

376
00:17:25,105 --> 00:17:27,005
It is surrounded by residential properties,

377
00:17:27,005 --> 00:17:28,885
but a commercial use has long been established.

378
00:17:29,105 --> 00:17:30,805
The dairy zoning ordinance does not allow

379
00:17:30,805 --> 00:17:32,805
for commercial signage in the LMDR

380
00:17:33,225 --> 00:17:35,365
and the applicant requires signage for its business.

381
00:17:35,985 --> 00:17:38,205
The property has historically had a

382
00:17:38,285 --> 00:17:39,405
sign on it for the church.

383
00:17:40,625 --> 00:17:42,165
The proposed use is reasonable

384
00:17:42,165 --> 00:17:43,925
because the sign is a reasonable size.

385
00:17:44,225 --> 00:17:48,405
It provides enough notice to those passing by that our

386
00:17:49,325 --> 00:17:51,245
businesses on the property but does not

387
00:17:51,245 --> 00:17:52,285
overburden the property.

388
00:17:52,665 --> 00:17:54,525
The applicant is presenting this application

389
00:17:54,525 --> 00:17:56,525
as a reasonable compromise with the abutters

390
00:17:56,525 --> 00:17:58,965
who raised concerns regarding the prior variance approval.

391
00:17:59,335 --> 00:18:01,485
Thank you very much. Sure. And now feel free

392
00:18:01,585 --> 00:18:02,925
to elaborate in your own words.

393
00:18:02,985 --> 00:18:04,405
You were sure. That'd be great. A nice job. Thank you.

394
00:18:04,405 --> 00:18:06,165
Thank you. Yeah.

395
00:18:06,165 --> 00:18:08,765
You know, so just taking back where I left off here,

396
00:18:09,005 --> 00:18:11,205
I was talking about the drop off in pickups of students.

397
00:18:12,305 --> 00:18:16,045
You know, any school has students, excuse me,

398
00:18:16,185 --> 00:18:17,805
any school has students that obviously

399
00:18:17,805 --> 00:18:19,045
change from year to year.

400
00:18:20,705 --> 00:18:22,165
So there's gonna be lots of folks coming

401
00:18:22,165 --> 00:18:23,725
and going that are not necessarily gonna

402
00:18:23,725 --> 00:18:24,805
be familiar with the area.

403
00:18:25,825 --> 00:18:29,445
And what's unique about this particular baseball school

404
00:18:30,265 --> 00:18:32,325
is it's a baseball school, right?

405
00:18:32,345 --> 00:18:35,005
And it's owned and operated by a, a, a professional,

406
00:18:35,125 --> 00:18:36,645
a former professional baseball player.

407
00:18:37,985 --> 00:18:41,645
So it's likely that this is gonna be of a, a unique niche

408
00:18:42,325 --> 00:18:46,125
interest to a lot of kids out there want to play baseball.

409
00:18:46,265 --> 00:18:48,325
So you're likely gonna get folks that are traveling from,

410
00:18:48,325 --> 00:18:49,805
you know, Hey, Chelmsford Mass

411
00:18:49,825 --> 00:18:52,645
or up north are coming from Maine that just don't know dairy

412
00:18:53,625 --> 00:18:55,365
and especially your residential streets.

413
00:18:55,825 --> 00:18:57,725
So it makes sense to have something there

414
00:18:57,755 --> 00:18:59,245
that identifies this business.

415
00:18:59,385 --> 00:19:00,845
So, so folks can pull in and see it.

416
00:19:03,185 --> 00:19:04,925
The sign's not gonna threaten public

417
00:19:04,925 --> 00:19:06,125
health, safety or welfare.

418
00:19:06,345 --> 00:19:09,005
On the contrary, you know, a sign like this helps

419
00:19:09,145 --> 00:19:11,085
to make a site like this safer.

420
00:19:11,275 --> 00:19:12,805
It's not gonna impact the sight lines.

421
00:19:12,805 --> 00:19:13,885
The sight lines are fine

422
00:19:14,385 --> 00:19:16,125
and it's gonna insist assist

423
00:19:16,155 --> 00:19:17,525
with people finding the property.

424
00:19:18,145 --> 00:19:19,205
Now I acknowledge

425
00:19:19,205 --> 00:19:21,525
that when I read the decision from the court,

426
00:19:22,095 --> 00:19:24,245
there was some evidence presented the last time around

427
00:19:24,245 --> 00:19:26,685
that the reader board could cause some sort

428
00:19:26,685 --> 00:19:28,285
of traffic impediment.

429
00:19:28,915 --> 00:19:30,125
Well, that's not an issue now

430
00:19:30,365 --> 00:19:32,845
'cause we've gotten rid of that and it's just a, a sign

431
00:19:34,865 --> 00:19:36,005
the spirit of the ordinance.

432
00:19:36,025 --> 00:19:38,325
You know, the only elaboration I'll make beyond

433
00:19:38,325 --> 00:19:40,925
what I've already stated on the record is that the analysis

434
00:19:40,925 --> 00:19:42,805
for the spirit of the ordinance prong is the same

435
00:19:43,065 --> 00:19:44,405
as the first prong.

436
00:19:44,505 --> 00:19:46,125
So says the case in Harborside.

437
00:19:46,465 --> 00:19:48,405
So generally when I get to that point, I say,

438
00:19:48,755 --> 00:19:50,125
I'll just reiterate what I just said.

439
00:19:50,125 --> 00:19:51,245
And you can see that in the record.

440
00:19:52,665 --> 00:19:53,885
As for the substantial justice,

441
00:19:53,915 --> 00:19:55,645
what I'll, you know, expound on that.

442
00:19:58,145 --> 00:20:00,085
You know, here the applicant has two businesses.

443
00:20:00,115 --> 00:20:01,885
They're allowed to operate at this property.

444
00:20:01,915 --> 00:20:03,445
It's just that he's not allowed to have the sign

445
00:20:03,465 --> 00:20:05,445
and signs are important for any commercial business.

446
00:20:06,035 --> 00:20:08,365
Without it, it's gonna be difficult for people to find it.

447
00:20:09,225 --> 00:20:11,885
You know, the public's not gonna see any gain in it.

448
00:20:11,885 --> 00:20:13,565
And rather it might be a detriment to traffic

449
00:20:13,565 --> 00:20:15,485
because if you have folks

450
00:20:15,485 --> 00:20:18,485
that are traveling down a residential street, they're trying

451
00:20:18,485 --> 00:20:21,365
to find the baseball school, they don't see it at first

452
00:20:21,365 --> 00:20:22,605
because they didn't see a sign.

453
00:20:22,605 --> 00:20:24,885
Guess what they're gonna do? They're gonna pull around

454
00:20:25,025 --> 00:20:28,685
and turn around in somebody's driveway down the road, right?

455
00:20:28,685 --> 00:20:29,885
And turn around and come back.

456
00:20:30,505 --> 00:20:31,525
And finally I'll add

457
00:20:31,525 --> 00:20:33,605
that this is a good tax boost for the town.

458
00:20:35,185 --> 00:20:38,445
So the public would not gain that if, if there was a problem

459
00:20:38,445 --> 00:20:41,885
for this business being there surrounding property values.

460
00:20:42,365 --> 00:20:43,765
There's simply no indication

461
00:20:44,635 --> 00:20:47,605
that this sign is gonna impact the negative property values.

462
00:20:47,655 --> 00:20:49,485
Again, it's not encroaching, as we said,

463
00:20:49,485 --> 00:20:50,765
it doesn't obstruct any views.

464
00:20:51,035 --> 00:20:52,765
There's not gonna be a reader board.

465
00:20:53,185 --> 00:20:56,685
So that problem is gone and we've submitted a letter to you.

466
00:20:56,845 --> 00:20:58,485
I hope you have it in case you do not.

467
00:20:58,605 --> 00:20:59,605
I do have extra copies.

468
00:20:59,985 --> 00:21:01,645
It is from one of the abutters who's a realtor

469
00:21:01,865 --> 00:21:04,005
who spoke favorably about this application

470
00:21:04,105 --> 00:21:06,085
and also opined that it's not going

471
00:21:06,085 --> 00:21:08,845
to negatively impact any property values.

472
00:21:09,505 --> 00:21:11,285
And finally, hardship. Thank you.

473
00:21:12,365 --> 00:21:13,965
Hardship is always a three step analysis.

474
00:21:14,995 --> 00:21:17,525
What are the special conditions, the fair

475
00:21:17,525 --> 00:21:18,685
and substantial prong?

476
00:21:18,945 --> 00:21:20,365
And is the use reasonable?

477
00:21:21,435 --> 00:21:24,165
Well, the special conditions are satisfied due

478
00:21:24,165 --> 00:21:27,605
to the uniquely large size of this lot

479
00:21:28,705 --> 00:21:30,845
as compared to others in the area.

480
00:21:31,185 --> 00:21:33,725
It is significantly larger than any other lot in the area.

481
00:21:34,475 --> 00:21:35,525
There's gonna be a type

482
00:21:35,525 --> 00:21:37,925
of school in a structure that is already there.

483
00:21:38,225 --> 00:21:41,085
And a structure can also speak to the special conditions,

484
00:21:41,705 --> 00:21:45,565
as was pointed out by the court in its decision on page 17,

485
00:21:45,745 --> 00:21:49,925
citing to that Harborside case, which in that case the size

486
00:21:49,925 --> 00:21:53,445
of the hotel at issue in the harbor in the Harborside case,

487
00:21:54,305 --> 00:21:56,245
was ultimately deemed by the Supreme Court

488
00:21:56,245 --> 00:21:59,485
to be a special condition in relation to the size

489
00:21:59,485 --> 00:22:02,645
of the sign that they were trying to apply for.

490
00:22:02,645 --> 00:22:05,405
In that case, the ordinance in Portsmouth only allowed

491
00:22:05,405 --> 00:22:06,845
for a sign, you know, yay big.

492
00:22:07,115 --> 00:22:08,485
They wanted to sign this big

493
00:22:08,745 --> 00:22:10,165
and the Supreme Court said, you know what?

494
00:22:10,165 --> 00:22:13,085
The hotel's a big building, it needs that big sign.

495
00:22:13,505 --> 00:22:15,365
So I only raised that point to say that these

496
00:22:16,085 --> 00:22:19,925
structures there, location, their makeup is all relevant too

497
00:22:19,925 --> 00:22:20,925
to the special condition.

498
00:22:21,025 --> 00:22:23,765
And those structures are pushed way back from the road.

499
00:22:24,305 --> 00:22:26,765
So I know he is already got a clear, clean variance

500
00:22:26,825 --> 00:22:28,525
for signage on those buildings.

501
00:22:28,525 --> 00:22:29,845
But you can't see that from the road.

502
00:22:29,985 --> 00:22:32,165
You still need something from the road to kind of grab 'em.

503
00:22:35,855 --> 00:22:38,115
And the court did acknowledge in that decision

504
00:22:38,345 --> 00:22:39,795
that the setback

505
00:22:40,015 --> 00:22:42,115
of those buildings could be a special condition.

506
00:22:42,115 --> 00:22:44,875
It's the problem was the last time around the,

507
00:22:45,215 --> 00:22:47,595
the presentation never connected those dots.

508
00:22:48,015 --> 00:22:49,955
So that's what I'm trying to do here today.

509
00:22:54,495 --> 00:22:56,675
You know, if the buildings were actually closer to the road,

510
00:22:56,675 --> 00:22:57,715
we probably wouldn't need to be here.

511
00:22:57,875 --> 00:22:58,795
'cause he could have just put

512
00:22:58,795 --> 00:22:59,915
the sign on the side of the building.

513
00:23:00,135 --> 00:23:04,675
But now the property is a commercial property in a

514
00:23:04,675 --> 00:23:05,675
residential zone.

515
00:23:06,535 --> 00:23:09,675
Now the court said you can't exactly use that

516
00:23:09,735 --> 00:23:12,635
as a special condition, at least with respect to

517
00:23:13,385 --> 00:23:16,275
this one step of hardship, the special condition.

518
00:23:16,695 --> 00:23:17,755
The reason is, is

519
00:23:17,755 --> 00:23:20,715
because it's not really a problem with the land as much

520
00:23:20,715 --> 00:23:23,635
as it's a legislative problem with the ordinance.

521
00:23:23,635 --> 00:23:27,435
So you've got this commercially zoned lot, not really zoned,

522
00:23:27,435 --> 00:23:29,315
but you have this use, this commercial use

523
00:23:30,415 --> 00:23:31,675
in a residential area.

524
00:23:32,375 --> 00:23:36,515
But it's certainly a, a viable factor to bring up

525
00:23:36,515 --> 00:23:37,715
for prongs one through four.

526
00:23:38,575 --> 00:23:41,355
And it's also a viable step in the analysis

527
00:23:41,355 --> 00:23:43,675
of hardship once you get past those special conditions.

528
00:23:45,185 --> 00:23:48,445
So again, you have the big lot, the business,

529
00:23:48,875 --> 00:23:51,445
it's pushed back, hence why it's

530
00:23:51,445 --> 00:23:52,765
logical to put a sign there.

531
00:23:54,065 --> 00:23:56,645
And you have this commercial use that's surrounded

532
00:23:56,665 --> 00:23:58,965
by all these residential properties.

533
00:24:00,505 --> 00:24:03,965
So you know that the size of the lot, the need

534
00:24:03,965 --> 00:24:06,605
for the sign in of itself is a special condition.

535
00:24:07,945 --> 00:24:09,525
And when you turn to that fair

536
00:24:09,525 --> 00:24:11,885
and substantial prong, which is always a mouthful,

537
00:24:11,885 --> 00:24:13,965
when you actually say the language from the court and,

538
00:24:13,985 --> 00:24:16,885
and i, I once read in the instructions of

539
00:24:17,345 --> 00:24:19,205
for the variance criteria in London dairy,

540
00:24:20,005 --> 00:24:21,045
somebody described it quite well.

541
00:24:21,045 --> 00:24:23,645
They said another way to say that is, is

542
00:24:23,645 --> 00:24:25,165
that if you grant the variance,

543
00:24:25,875 --> 00:24:30,285
does it unreasonably frustrate the purpose of the ordinance

544
00:24:31,105 --> 00:24:32,445
for which you're seeking relief.

545
00:24:33,105 --> 00:24:36,325
So, okay, so you gotta look at the purpose of the ordinance.

546
00:24:37,305 --> 00:24:40,125
The ordinance at issue is about signage in,

547
00:24:40,125 --> 00:24:41,285
in a residential area.

548
00:24:41,285 --> 00:24:42,085
In other words, you're not really

549
00:24:42,245 --> 00:24:43,045
supposed to have any right?

550
00:24:43,065 --> 00:24:45,005
Except you know, this small sign with your name

551
00:24:45,025 --> 00:24:47,565
or you know, home occupation saying, Hey, I've got a,

552
00:24:47,605 --> 00:24:48,725
I cut hair or whatever.

553
00:24:48,825 --> 00:24:53,045
I'm A CPA. Well, why do you have that?

554
00:24:53,045 --> 00:24:54,965
Well, you have that for the obvious reason

555
00:24:54,965 --> 00:24:56,085
that you don't want a bunch

556
00:24:56,085 --> 00:24:57,725
of signs in a residential neighborhood,

557
00:24:58,025 --> 00:24:59,245
you know, and we get that.

558
00:25:00,265 --> 00:25:02,245
But guess what, this is not a residential lot.

559
00:25:03,275 --> 00:25:04,605
It's not, it's a commercial lot.

560
00:25:05,785 --> 00:25:07,045
And that's where it comes in.

561
00:25:07,385 --> 00:25:11,445
So as long as that sign doesn't overly offend

562
00:25:11,445 --> 00:25:14,165
that ordinance, you get across that.

563
00:25:14,165 --> 00:25:16,565
And I would say it, it doesn't offend that we got rid

564
00:25:16,565 --> 00:25:19,165
of the reader board, the obnoxious moving

565
00:25:19,165 --> 00:25:20,325
lights that everybody hates.

566
00:25:20,325 --> 00:25:23,565
We, we get that. And now you have a straightforward sign

567
00:25:24,165 --> 00:25:26,285
identifying two businesses in a lot.

568
00:25:26,285 --> 00:25:27,525
That's eight and a half acres.

569
00:25:28,465 --> 00:25:30,645
So we would say that's not unreasonably frustrating,

570
00:25:30,645 --> 00:25:31,685
that purpose of the ordinance.

571
00:25:32,265 --> 00:25:34,805
And then the last step of the hardship analysis is whether

572
00:25:34,805 --> 00:25:35,845
the use is reasonable.

573
00:25:36,755 --> 00:25:40,765
That one's easy, it's allowed, the use is allowed,

574
00:25:40,765 --> 00:25:45,205
it's commercial use on a commercially commercial

575
00:25:45,305 --> 00:25:46,485
lot that's otherwise allowed.

576
00:25:46,585 --> 00:25:50,245
So it's reasonable. And that is all I have.

577
00:25:50,445 --> 00:25:52,045
I have the applicant here with Can,

578
00:25:52,045 --> 00:25:53,565
I probably got a few things you wants to say

579
00:25:53,585 --> 00:25:54,765
and you go however ahead.

580
00:25:54,985 --> 00:25:56,685
No, thank you, Mr. Feel free. You're done.

581
00:25:56,745 --> 00:25:58,085
Can you guys hear me? Is this on?

582
00:26:00,185 --> 00:26:02,725
So again, thank you for, for hearing my case.

583
00:26:02,845 --> 00:26:04,445
I know I've been here before. I see some,

584
00:26:04,475 --> 00:26:05,725
some recognizable faces.

585
00:26:06,385 --> 00:26:07,525
My name is Jay Yco.

586
00:26:07,705 --> 00:26:08,805
I'm the, the applicant

587
00:26:08,805 --> 00:26:11,645
and the owner, last time I was here is at the beginning

588
00:26:11,645 --> 00:26:15,205
stages of this, this process for both my business

589
00:26:15,345 --> 00:26:17,965
and obviously the signage contingency.

590
00:26:19,365 --> 00:26:22,405
I do not, please don't take it personally, Chris,

591
00:26:22,525 --> 00:26:24,325
I I do not wanna bring an attorney to this.

592
00:26:24,885 --> 00:26:26,405
When I came before I didn't do that.

593
00:26:27,485 --> 00:26:29,005
I just wanna come and speak to you,

594
00:26:29,105 --> 00:26:30,365
you know, as a resident as well.

595
00:26:30,365 --> 00:26:31,405
I'm not a resident of dairy, but

596
00:26:31,405 --> 00:26:33,685
as a business owner in dairy as I did before,

597
00:26:33,785 --> 00:26:35,725
but now I feel like I have that need.

598
00:26:36,065 --> 00:26:38,205
So unfortunately that's the situation I'm in.

599
00:26:38,225 --> 00:26:39,765
So that's, that's the reasoning for that.

600
00:26:39,785 --> 00:26:42,325
But I'd still like to speak to you as the business owner,

601
00:26:42,385 --> 00:26:44,325
as someone that, that occupies that property

602
00:26:44,585 --> 00:26:46,365
and explained to you what's hap what,

603
00:26:46,365 --> 00:26:47,685
where I'm at since that time.

604
00:26:49,145 --> 00:26:50,725
You know, obviously we talked about,

605
00:26:50,745 --> 00:26:53,485
and I won't, you know, belittle it, the the need

606
00:26:53,485 --> 00:26:55,685
for a signage at a business and new business.

607
00:26:55,705 --> 00:26:57,245
And I, I did, I took a leap of faith

608
00:26:57,805 --> 00:26:59,125
and I've spent an awful lot of money.

609
00:26:59,365 --> 00:27:01,525
I know that's not of a concern to a board. It is to me.

610
00:27:02,125 --> 00:27:04,685
I spent an awful lot of money coming to that property

611
00:27:04,685 --> 00:27:05,885
and building that property out.

612
00:27:07,035 --> 00:27:09,765
I've taken something that was an eyesore that was being used

613
00:27:09,825 --> 00:27:12,325
for, I don't even wanna say it on television

614
00:27:13,105 --> 00:27:14,885
and being abused and turned it into

615
00:27:14,885 --> 00:27:17,805
what I consider a nice use of that property

616
00:27:17,865 --> 00:27:19,965
and cleaned that property up 100%.

617
00:27:20,445 --> 00:27:21,925
I hear nothing but positive things.

618
00:27:22,045 --> 00:27:24,325
I know there's some folks in the room that might not feel

619
00:27:24,325 --> 00:27:25,365
that way, but I hear nothing

620
00:27:25,385 --> 00:27:27,005
but positive things from the neighbors

621
00:27:27,315 --> 00:27:28,645
that are all around me.

622
00:27:29,105 --> 00:27:31,365
Any Steri drive that road frequently.

623
00:27:31,705 --> 00:27:34,165
It is not a, it is not a rural road any longer.

624
00:27:34,805 --> 00:27:37,125
It is a busy road. And I hear nothing

625
00:27:37,145 --> 00:27:40,045
but positive from, from those folks, including, you know,

626
00:27:40,045 --> 00:27:41,525
my customer, my new customer base.

627
00:27:43,205 --> 00:27:44,205
I went through the whole process.

628
00:27:44,525 --> 00:27:47,485
I was granted that the signage here, we, we, you know,

629
00:27:47,525 --> 00:27:49,765
I couldn't wait forever to put a sign up.

630
00:27:50,165 --> 00:27:52,845
And we, and I wa was told, you know, it can take forever

631
00:27:53,435 --> 00:27:55,445
appeals and on and on and I, I have to run a business.

632
00:27:55,445 --> 00:27:57,965
So I put the sign up based on the, the approval

633
00:27:59,475 --> 00:28:00,485
that was granted to me.

634
00:28:00,865 --> 00:28:02,165
And, and now we're at this process.

635
00:28:02,345 --> 00:28:04,765
But what I can say from that time, from that, from

636
00:28:04,765 --> 00:28:08,165
that point on is that, you know, I again took a leap

637
00:28:08,165 --> 00:28:09,325
of faith, bringing a business here

638
00:28:09,325 --> 00:28:12,325
and started a business up in this area, which was, was,

639
00:28:12,425 --> 00:28:15,005
was a, a new business being the baseball side of things.

640
00:28:15,905 --> 00:28:17,045
And also my nursery

641
00:28:17,045 --> 00:28:18,805
that was established in Windham, but not in dairy.

642
00:28:19,265 --> 00:28:21,125
And literally from the minute the sign

643
00:28:21,125 --> 00:28:22,325
went up, my business increased.

644
00:28:23,365 --> 00:28:26,285
I, I saw it exponentially. It's, it's a massive need for me.

645
00:28:27,645 --> 00:28:30,885
I have a lot of the, the nursery's only open about half

646
00:28:30,885 --> 00:28:32,805
of the year, not really during the winter time.

647
00:28:33,065 --> 00:28:34,725
The baseball is during this time.

648
00:28:34,785 --> 00:28:37,885
And, and throughout the whole year since that time,

649
00:28:37,945 --> 00:28:41,085
we have had people come by, drop in, I saw you sign,

650
00:28:41,165 --> 00:28:42,445
I wanted to see what was going on here.

651
00:28:42,825 --> 00:28:44,845
Had no idea what was going on at our property.

652
00:28:44,945 --> 00:28:47,725
Now they've come with kids to, to come

653
00:28:47,725 --> 00:28:49,685
to our pitching clinics and our pitching schools

654
00:28:49,685 --> 00:28:53,765
and our hitting schools from Hampstead, from sand down,

655
00:28:54,225 --> 00:28:56,045
lampre River, little League dairy,

656
00:28:56,045 --> 00:28:58,685
little League Dairy Diamonds, Windham,

657
00:28:58,685 --> 00:29:00,085
little League, London Dairy.

658
00:29:00,845 --> 00:29:01,885
A lot of that has been

659
00:29:01,885 --> 00:29:03,685
because I've been able to, I've been seen

660
00:29:03,745 --> 00:29:05,845
and those people are coming from a great distance coming

661
00:29:05,875 --> 00:29:07,485
into dairy, spending money in dairy.

662
00:29:07,485 --> 00:29:09,405
Obviously if they're there dropping off for an hour, hour

663
00:29:09,405 --> 00:29:11,805
and a half, we have everything on our website to tell you

664
00:29:11,805 --> 00:29:13,405
that you can go to Shaw's and you go to Hannaford

665
00:29:13,405 --> 00:29:14,805
and do all that stuff while you're waiting.

666
00:29:15,945 --> 00:29:18,805
But as well as they're coming from a distance,

667
00:29:18,805 --> 00:29:21,205
they don't travel down Hampstead Road every day.

668
00:29:21,665 --> 00:29:23,125
So they don't, they wouldn't know

669
00:29:23,255 --> 00:29:25,685
where I am without seeing something kind of in their face.

670
00:29:25,685 --> 00:29:30,205
They need that. Our baseball program runs in the evenings

671
00:29:30,665 --> 00:29:32,045
as it gets, as it gets dark.

672
00:29:32,105 --> 00:29:34,005
So we need something. So we can see that.

673
00:29:35,125 --> 00:29:36,565
I also have noticed personally,

674
00:29:36,585 --> 00:29:38,445
and some of my employees have noticed

675
00:29:38,505 --> 00:29:41,310
and mentioned it from literally from the moment moment the

676
00:29:41,310 --> 00:29:44,645
sign went up, the traffic became easier to get in and out.

677
00:29:46,025 --> 00:29:48,765
It became safer for our, our customers coming in

678
00:29:48,765 --> 00:29:50,525
and out, say a landscape customer with a trailer.

679
00:29:50,525 --> 00:29:53,525
Because as you come up to our property on either direction,

680
00:29:53,545 --> 00:29:55,005
you see something and you know,

681
00:29:55,005 --> 00:29:56,085
there's something going on there.

682
00:29:57,025 --> 00:29:59,965
So people tend to, when that happens, I'm teaching my 15

683
00:29:59,985 --> 00:30:01,885
and a half year old how to drive right now.

684
00:30:02,185 --> 00:30:04,405
So I kind of give the old, Hey, you know,

685
00:30:04,505 --> 00:30:05,765
if you see something going on,

686
00:30:05,785 --> 00:30:07,205
you someone puts their brakes on,

687
00:30:07,205 --> 00:30:08,965
there's a reason slow down.

688
00:30:09,185 --> 00:30:10,525
And that has happened in that area.

689
00:30:10,525 --> 00:30:13,205
People coming around that corner, I've, we've noticed that,

690
00:30:13,205 --> 00:30:16,485
that, that, that significantly, you know, safer

691
00:30:16,665 --> 00:30:18,085
to be honest since that went up,

692
00:30:18,085 --> 00:30:20,885
because there is something recognizable in that area.

693
00:30:22,785 --> 00:30:24,245
That's, that's really where I'm at.

694
00:30:24,245 --> 00:30:25,405
I'll answer any questions.

695
00:30:25,605 --> 00:30:28,325
I, I've, I've gone into grave detail before for you folks.

696
00:30:28,505 --> 00:30:30,245
I'm happy to do it again if I'm asked a question,

697
00:30:30,305 --> 00:30:32,645
but, you know, I'm just asking for a leaf so I can

698
00:30:33,285 --> 00:30:34,845
continue doing what I'm doing and, and,

699
00:30:35,025 --> 00:30:37,645
and try to continue to be successful with my business.

700
00:30:38,275 --> 00:30:41,445
Well, your, your time, your, your passion is understood.

701
00:30:41,445 --> 00:30:43,805
However, let's, let's go back to your attorney

702
00:30:43,905 --> 00:30:45,725
or let's talk about case law Sure.

703
00:30:45,725 --> 00:30:47,285
And the merits of that.

704
00:30:48,045 --> 00:30:50,365
You've spoken about Harborside Associates

705
00:30:50,465 --> 00:30:52,565
and you've put that on your application.

706
00:30:55,065 --> 00:30:57,365
You care to elaborate on that case at all

707
00:30:57,945 --> 00:31:00,125
and a little more on how it applies here.

708
00:31:00,545 --> 00:31:04,925
Oh, well, I, I was the reason, well it's first of all

709
00:31:04,925 --> 00:31:06,165
where the rules come from.

710
00:31:06,645 --> 00:31:09,325
So for prongs one and two, that's where you get those.

711
00:31:09,565 --> 00:31:10,725
I mean, it's, it's in other cases,

712
00:31:10,825 --> 00:31:12,485
but that's the biggest one that it comes from

713
00:31:14,185 --> 00:31:16,525
the o The other reason I raised it was, it was,

714
00:31:16,945 --> 00:31:19,725
it was mentioned on page 17 of the court decision

715
00:31:20,075 --> 00:31:21,605
that overturned the variance.

716
00:31:22,305 --> 00:31:25,085
And what it mentioned was is that the, the building,

717
00:31:25,265 --> 00:31:28,805
the structure in that case can be a special condition.

718
00:31:29,185 --> 00:31:30,285
So I was raising that here

719
00:31:30,285 --> 00:31:34,605
because I drawing that similarity, if you will,

720
00:31:34,935 --> 00:31:37,365
where here we have these structures on his lot,

721
00:31:37,915 --> 00:31:42,645
they're pushed back, hence, you know, creating the,

722
00:31:42,705 --> 00:31:44,285
the sort of need or the condition

723
00:31:44,285 --> 00:31:45,725
for the sign to be by the road.

724
00:31:46,665 --> 00:31:49,005
And that's based on where that structure is.

725
00:31:49,005 --> 00:31:52,045
So if the structure can be considered part

726
00:31:52,045 --> 00:31:53,645
of a special exception is why I raised it.

727
00:31:54,245 --> 00:31:57,845
I find that the sign is replacing a sign, albeit it was

728
00:31:57,905 --> 00:32:01,685
for a, you know, for the, the,

729
00:32:01,825 --> 00:32:03,005
the church, right?

730
00:32:03,005 --> 00:32:04,085
Yeah. Sizable.

731
00:32:04,115 --> 00:32:07,645
There's the, the contention between what this version

732
00:32:08,745 --> 00:32:13,645
of your client is looking for versus something

733
00:32:13,645 --> 00:32:15,285
that was concealed in bushes

734
00:32:15,785 --> 00:32:18,085
and probably harder to see despite the fact

735
00:32:18,085 --> 00:32:19,565
that I think it was 30 feet long.

736
00:32:21,145 --> 00:32:24,885
You indicated earlier that the significance of the sign

737
00:32:25,495 --> 00:32:27,445
helps people find the location

738
00:32:28,105 --> 00:32:31,085
and indicate people perhaps from Haverhill, right.

739
00:32:31,155 --> 00:32:32,925
That they don't understand that they don't know.

740
00:32:32,925 --> 00:32:34,245
They're stuff familiar with the area, the

741
00:32:34,245 --> 00:32:35,245
Community, right?

742
00:32:35,245 --> 00:32:37,205
Yeah. But you used the phrase Residential Street.

743
00:32:37,215 --> 00:32:40,325
Would you, would you categorize this as a residential street

744
00:32:40,465 --> 00:32:41,605
or more of a bypass?

745
00:32:42,875 --> 00:32:43,885
It's, you know, I'm, I'm,

746
00:32:44,305 --> 00:32:46,045
you're probably more familiar with the area than I am.

747
00:32:46,365 --> 00:32:48,045
I don't have because I didn't do it yet.

748
00:32:48,305 --> 00:32:51,005
But you know, the traffic count there is not, I know,

749
00:32:51,165 --> 00:32:52,405
I know some folks have come up in the past

750
00:32:52,405 --> 00:32:54,965
and say we live in a, a rural east area

751
00:32:54,965 --> 00:32:56,045
is a very rural town.

752
00:32:56,145 --> 00:32:58,925
It is, if you get off of east every road, right?

753
00:32:59,565 --> 00:33:01,445
I mean, I'm sorry east, every road in Hampstead Road

754
00:33:02,355 --> 00:33:05,845
that is not a, you know, rickety bypass.

755
00:33:06,605 --> 00:33:07,725
I mean it's, it is a bypass.

756
00:33:08,005 --> 00:33:09,565
I would consider it like bypass 28.

757
00:33:09,925 --> 00:33:12,205
It is, it is a heavily traveled road at this point.

758
00:33:13,305 --> 00:33:16,725
And a but said both of that, it's a super busy road.

759
00:33:16,725 --> 00:33:17,885
This is a very big concern.

760
00:33:18,305 --> 00:33:20,965
And then, you know, in a later statement they said this is a

761
00:33:20,965 --> 00:33:22,445
rural backwoods area.

762
00:33:22,445 --> 00:33:23,485
It's, it's a busy road.

763
00:33:23,595 --> 00:33:26,245
It's a very busy road and it connects sand down

764
00:33:26,245 --> 00:33:28,565
and Hampstead two, two der

765
00:33:29,505 --> 00:33:31,285
two two pretty good sized towns also.

766
00:33:31,695 --> 00:33:35,765
Those two, the, the Hampstead also is a,

767
00:33:35,865 --> 00:33:37,765
is a sending town to Pinton Academy.

768
00:33:38,225 --> 00:33:40,565
So it, it is a direct throughway to that.

769
00:33:40,745 --> 00:33:43,245
And I would also speak to the, your question

770
00:33:43,245 --> 00:33:46,085
or your comment on the, the previous sign for the,

771
00:33:46,505 --> 00:33:49,645
the Catholic church that was there for 25 years.

772
00:33:49,745 --> 00:33:53,205
Yes, it was, it was 30 feet long. It was four feet tall.

773
00:33:53,625 --> 00:33:55,925
It didn't have the same appearance as the sign I have.

774
00:33:56,485 --> 00:33:59,525
I would note that the two different businesses,

775
00:33:59,525 --> 00:34:01,405
if we'll call a Catholic church the business,

776
00:34:02,515 --> 00:34:04,885
they had the same people go every Sunday, sir.

777
00:34:05,225 --> 00:34:06,885
And I have different people coming in

778
00:34:06,885 --> 00:34:09,365
and out all the time trying to game my business each year,

779
00:34:09,875 --> 00:34:11,645
literally daily or weekly.

780
00:34:11,985 --> 00:34:15,005
So it's, it's a different clientele need

781
00:34:15,145 --> 00:34:17,165
for the signage for sure. A hundred percent.

782
00:34:17,625 --> 00:34:20,245
Do you find Simplex has some significance

783
00:34:20,475 --> 00:34:21,645
into this case at all?

784
00:34:22,705 --> 00:34:24,365
The old Simplex standard? Yeah.

785
00:34:26,605 --> 00:34:28,965
I mean they, they get into the hardship, the ability

786
00:34:29,025 --> 00:34:32,085
of a board to, you know,

787
00:34:32,585 --> 00:34:35,325
and I think you touched on it earlier about, you know,

788
00:34:35,325 --> 00:34:38,405
there's three basic principles to the hardship aspect

789
00:34:38,585 --> 00:34:41,285
of this, which is where Simplex is going.

790
00:34:41,985 --> 00:34:45,645
And, and I think that's the biggest constraint here.

791
00:34:45,665 --> 00:34:48,965
And I think it's noted in the, in the former case as well.

792
00:34:49,675 --> 00:34:50,965
Yeah. I think that, well the,

793
00:34:50,985 --> 00:34:52,765
the tough part about when you say the former case,

794
00:34:52,765 --> 00:34:54,605
you're talking about the, the court case, right?

795
00:34:54,605 --> 00:34:57,605
This here. Yep. You know, I read that very carefully

796
00:34:57,825 --> 00:35:01,085
and I have a lot of experience in front of Judge K class

797
00:35:02,025 --> 00:35:05,565
and what he's getting at with the special conditions.

798
00:35:05,565 --> 00:35:06,685
That was what it was for him.

799
00:35:07,945 --> 00:35:11,725
You know, his, the, the biggest push, I think the last trip

800
00:35:11,725 --> 00:35:15,045
around was this is a commercial

801
00:35:16,345 --> 00:35:19,165
lot stuck in a residential zone.

802
00:35:19,605 --> 00:35:20,925
That's the special condition.

803
00:35:22,235 --> 00:35:24,005
I've, I've already been in front of class when,

804
00:35:24,005 --> 00:35:27,005
when he's done this too, where he said, well,

805
00:35:27,625 --> 00:35:28,845
you can change the zoning.

806
00:35:30,035 --> 00:35:32,405
It's the land. That's the, that's

807
00:35:32,405 --> 00:35:33,845
what makes it the special condition.

808
00:35:34,045 --> 00:35:37,245
Hmm. The makeup of the land as well as the structures on it.

809
00:35:37,705 --> 00:35:40,685
And that's what he said in that decision is he said,

810
00:35:40,945 --> 00:35:43,005
you know, and he cites the harbor sites saying, you know,

811
00:35:43,005 --> 00:35:44,245
you can use the, the structure.

812
00:35:44,785 --> 00:35:47,165
He even stated in no uncertain terms in

813
00:35:47,165 --> 00:35:49,805
that decision saying the distance of those buildings back

814
00:35:50,695 --> 00:35:51,925
could be a special condition,

815
00:35:51,925 --> 00:35:54,245
but nobody ever bothered to really make that connection.

816
00:35:54,315 --> 00:35:56,965
Instead they spent all the time talking about commercial

817
00:35:56,985 --> 00:35:58,085
versus residential.

818
00:35:58,085 --> 00:35:59,365
Commercial versus residential.

819
00:35:59,885 --> 00:36:02,565
I mean, theoretically he could

820
00:36:03,955 --> 00:36:06,455
get a petition warrant article up for the next march

821
00:36:06,675 --> 00:36:09,935
and change the zoning and, and possibly and,

822
00:36:09,935 --> 00:36:11,055
and do it legislatively.

823
00:36:12,355 --> 00:36:15,135
But what we're saying here is that the sign is necessary

824
00:36:15,135 --> 00:36:17,095
because of the size of the lot.

825
00:36:17,645 --> 00:36:19,815
Well, the size, the way the size of the lot really speaks

826
00:36:19,815 --> 00:36:23,615
to it is it speaks to the uniqueness of the lot as well

827
00:36:23,635 --> 00:36:26,975
as the proportionality of the sign that's before you

828
00:36:27,835 --> 00:36:30,855
and saying that, you know, it's appropriate size,

829
00:36:31,045 --> 00:36:33,375
it's appropriate sign the signs needed.

830
00:36:33,575 --> 00:36:35,495
'cause the special condition of the houses being,

831
00:36:35,555 --> 00:36:37,215
the structures being pushed all the way back.

832
00:36:37,215 --> 00:36:40,535
Nobody knows it's there and you know, people are liable

833
00:36:40,535 --> 00:36:41,815
to blow right by it.

834
00:36:41,815 --> 00:36:42,855
And like I said, you know,

835
00:36:43,405 --> 00:36:45,335
when people miss their turn, what do they do?

836
00:36:45,725 --> 00:36:46,815
Turn around in the driveway,

837
00:36:47,155 --> 00:36:48,655
you know, some of the, a lot of the times. So,

838
00:36:49,435 --> 00:36:52,095
So, but isn't the emphasis in this and,

839
00:36:52,155 --> 00:36:54,815
and you see it in a couple of cases that the,

840
00:36:55,315 --> 00:36:56,535
the courts have decided

841
00:36:57,125 --> 00:36:59,975
that the hardship can't be self-imposed.

842
00:37:00,765 --> 00:37:02,495
Yeah. Can't be self-imposed. Sure.

843
00:37:02,715 --> 00:37:06,175
And and do we find that, like in this case, you know,

844
00:37:06,175 --> 00:37:08,575
this is, this is not a non-conforming

845
00:37:09,015 --> 00:37:11,695
pre-existing, you know, business.

846
00:37:12,245 --> 00:37:14,415
This is something that's an approved use

847
00:37:14,675 --> 00:37:16,495
by the planning board here in town.

848
00:37:17,405 --> 00:37:19,815
Does that disqualify the idea

849
00:37:19,885 --> 00:37:21,815
that this is a self-imposed hardship?

850
00:37:21,995 --> 00:37:24,175
Not at all. I think any commercial business needs a sign.

851
00:37:24,325 --> 00:37:25,335
Yeah. Yeah.

852
00:37:27,635 --> 00:37:29,855
All right, I'll, I'll back off for a minute. Anybody else?

853
00:37:30,175 --> 00:37:33,135
Mr. Corbet? Anybody? Mr. Trip? Yes sir.

854
00:37:33,795 --> 00:37:36,655
You've kept talking about the buildings being

855
00:37:36,755 --> 00:37:37,775
set back from the road.

856
00:37:38,195 --> 00:37:41,375
Do you have an estimate on how far the building is set back?

857
00:37:42,395 --> 00:37:44,255
Do you know Sir? 300 feet. 300 feet?

858
00:37:44,895 --> 00:37:46,495
I mean, from the driveway

859
00:37:46,695 --> 00:37:47,855
entrance? Well, you can see it. Yes.

860
00:37:47,855 --> 00:37:50,015
300 feet. Yeah. It, I I said an estimate.

861
00:37:50,235 --> 00:37:51,935
It doesn't have to, yeah. Yes, it doesn't have

862
00:37:51,935 --> 00:37:53,295
to be 3 0 1 0.5.

863
00:37:53,865 --> 00:37:56,055
Thank you. Yeah, the,

864
00:37:58,975 --> 00:38:03,375
I I, I know we've been talking about, you know,

865
00:38:07,245 --> 00:38:11,985
why we need a sign, but we haven't managed

866
00:38:11,985 --> 00:38:14,145
to get around to talking about, you know,

867
00:38:15,875 --> 00:38:18,495
how big a sign it's gonna be, you know,

868
00:38:18,495 --> 00:38:21,615
because I think, you know, that probably has an effect on,

869
00:38:21,835 --> 00:38:24,095
you know, whether the,

870
00:38:25,155 --> 00:38:28,935
the sign is a, an annoyance.

871
00:38:29,635 --> 00:38:31,335
Now I know the, the,

872
00:38:31,335 --> 00:38:34,215
the reason the sign was an annoyance last time was

873
00:38:34,215 --> 00:38:36,605
because of the reader board.

874
00:38:36,655 --> 00:38:41,125
Right. You know, is the sign this go

875
00:38:41,125 --> 00:38:45,045
around basically the same size as the previous sign? So

876
00:38:45,105 --> 00:38:46,805
No, we lost 30 square feet

877
00:38:46,805 --> 00:38:47,925
by getting rid of the reader board.

878
00:38:49,185 --> 00:38:50,185
So it's less

879
00:38:51,465 --> 00:38:55,005
So that the, the bottom two pieces are basically the same

880
00:38:55,545 --> 00:38:56,965
as previously

881
00:38:57,585 --> 00:38:58,585
Top two pieces?

882
00:38:58,585 --> 00:39:00,325
Yes. The top two pieces. Oh, Yes.

883
00:39:00,855 --> 00:39:03,245
Which makes it about 50 square feet or whatever.

884
00:39:04,085 --> 00:39:06,165
I think so. Yeah. I have to,

885
00:39:06,205 --> 00:39:07,285
I have to look at the specs quickly.

886
00:39:08,415 --> 00:39:09,485
Maybe even a little less than that.

887
00:39:09,665 --> 00:39:11,125
The drawing shows it has two, five

888
00:39:11,145 --> 00:39:12,145
By five.

889
00:39:12,145 --> 00:39:14,365
I know, but I wanted him to say that, you

890
00:39:14,365 --> 00:39:16,605
Know, the record shows 50 square feet

891
00:39:17,825 --> 00:39:18,825
Now.

892
00:39:18,825 --> 00:39:21,885
'cause know there's a reason it's 50 square feet

893
00:39:21,915 --> 00:39:25,045
because it's, it needs to be big enough that it's, you know,

894
00:39:25,485 --> 00:39:27,685
visible from the, the road.

895
00:39:28,305 --> 00:39:29,565
You know, what's the purpose

896
00:39:29,585 --> 00:39:31,605
of having a sign if nobody sees it? Right,

897
00:39:32,155 --> 00:39:33,155
Exactly.

898
00:39:33,155 --> 00:39:34,115
Yeah.

899
00:39:35,305 --> 00:39:36,965
Do you, I'm sorry, go ahead, Mr.

900
00:39:37,125 --> 00:39:42,085
I noticed in the zoning ordinance it says that any sign

901
00:39:43,195 --> 00:39:47,645
that is greater than

902
00:39:49,625 --> 00:39:52,525
six square feet has to be 10 feet from the,

903
00:39:52,625 --> 00:39:53,885
the front lot line.

904
00:39:54,585 --> 00:39:57,205
Now where, where do you an anticipate putting

905
00:39:57,655 --> 00:39:58,965
these signs? Now? I

906
00:39:58,965 --> 00:40:00,485
Be, I believe we're, yeah,

907
00:40:00,485 --> 00:40:01,725
I think we're, well, well beyond that.

908
00:40:03,015 --> 00:40:04,925
Lemme see if I can get on the plan here, sir.

909
00:40:07,195 --> 00:40:11,325
Yeah, I think it's 30 feet, 30 feet back from the road.

910
00:40:16,415 --> 00:40:17,955
10 feet. 10 feet.

911
00:40:22,655 --> 00:40:24,675
So the thing is this, the sign is visible,

912
00:40:25,175 --> 00:40:27,515
but it's not the

913
00:40:27,515 --> 00:40:28,755
Sign Sticking out,

914
00:40:29,355 --> 00:40:30,355
Sticking out at you.

915
00:40:31,835 --> 00:40:35,315
I said the sign is visible, but it's, it is not, you know,

916
00:40:37,015 --> 00:40:38,275
It, it's certainly not on top

917
00:40:38,275 --> 00:40:39,875
of the road if yes, if that's a concern.

918
00:40:39,875 --> 00:40:41,475
Yeah. We're not in the right way or anything like

919
00:40:41,475 --> 00:40:42,475
That.

920
00:40:42,475 --> 00:40:42,955
And the sign is big enough that you

921
00:40:42,955 --> 00:40:44,115
can see it from the road.

922
00:40:44,145 --> 00:40:45,395
Correct. You know, so,

923
00:40:45,855 --> 00:40:46,855
And that's the idea.

924
00:40:46,855 --> 00:40:49,195
It's, it's proportional to the size of the lot. Yes.

925
00:40:49,385 --> 00:40:50,475
Yeah. That's The point.

926
00:40:50,475 --> 00:40:53,515
Yeah. Right. Thank you. Yep. Mr. Darwin?

927
00:40:54,335 --> 00:40:55,475
I'm good right now. Mr. Chip,

928
00:40:55,655 --> 00:40:56,515
Mr. Corbit,

929
00:40:57,075 --> 00:40:58,395
I have no questions at this time, Mr.

930
00:40:58,395 --> 00:41:01,195
Chair. I think Harborside keeping me busy for the moment.

931
00:41:01,195 --> 00:41:03,995
Alright, Mr. Dietzel? No, thank you, Mr. Chair.

932
00:41:04,065 --> 00:41:08,075
Okay, hang on just a second, folks.

933
00:41:13,315 --> 00:41:15,035
I find that, that Mr.

934
00:41:15,035 --> 00:41:18,715
Drescher, when you're referencing Judge Class's comments

935
00:41:19,095 --> 00:41:20,355
and Mr.

936
00:41:20,815 --> 00:41:23,275
Trip's question, you know,

937
00:41:23,345 --> 00:41:27,355
talking about the 300 foot significance of the building off

938
00:41:27,355 --> 00:41:32,315
of the, the road edge and that there's this acceptance

939
00:41:32,815 --> 00:41:36,205
and, and not even questioned by the Abutters appeal

940
00:41:37,375 --> 00:41:40,285
about the, the fact that that building is

941
00:41:40,305 --> 00:41:41,725
so far back from the road,

942
00:41:41,905 --> 00:41:45,565
but it, it needs signs for itself in order to be recognized.

943
00:41:47,465 --> 00:41:49,485
And your point is that if the building were closer

944
00:41:49,485 --> 00:41:52,285
to the road, you could have just put the signs on the

945
00:41:52,405 --> 00:41:54,525
building, but it's so far back, it's,

946
00:41:54,755 --> 00:41:56,005
it's hard to recognize.

947
00:41:56,065 --> 00:42:00,005
And Mr. Tripp's question about that, that distance from the,

948
00:42:00,045 --> 00:42:03,045
I guess the road edge to the building is about 300 feet.

949
00:42:03,865 --> 00:42:05,125
And, and please keep in mind

950
00:42:05,125 --> 00:42:07,205
that I think everyone's been by this building.

951
00:42:07,405 --> 00:42:10,405
I I I'm assuming and if you live in town once or twice.

952
00:42:10,595 --> 00:42:14,405
Yeah. Yeah. So it's, it, it still sets

953
00:42:14,425 --> 00:42:18,445
as a church trying very hard to let people know it's not,

954
00:42:18,585 --> 00:42:20,165
but it's still, when people drive by,

955
00:42:20,195 --> 00:42:21,725
they have to question that fact.

956
00:42:21,825 --> 00:42:24,165
Of course. That it still has the appearance of a church.

957
00:42:24,365 --> 00:42:25,485
I think we've done a good job so far,

958
00:42:25,485 --> 00:42:27,645
but it's still, it is in the works, you know, it's,

959
00:42:27,745 --> 00:42:28,805
it is very unique

960
00:42:28,805 --> 00:42:30,525
because it still has the appearance of a church.

961
00:42:30,905 --> 00:42:35,125
Got it. Okay. Mr. O Bimba or Mr.

962
00:42:36,505 --> 00:42:38,045
Ani, I think you came in, am I correct?

963
00:42:38,115 --> 00:42:42,525
Anybody else have any questions? Mr. Sca? You all set?

964
00:42:42,625 --> 00:42:43,965
I'm good. Okay. Very good.

965
00:42:44,625 --> 00:42:46,565
All gentlemen, well, we'll make a call to,

966
00:42:46,565 --> 00:42:48,845
unless you wanna add anything else, we'll make a call

967
00:42:48,845 --> 00:42:51,445
to public and you'll have an opportunity to rebut. Yeah, I,

968
00:42:51,605 --> 00:42:52,765
I have nothing further at this time.

969
00:42:52,765 --> 00:42:54,285
Do you have anything? No. Okay, we're fine.

970
00:42:54,595 --> 00:42:57,165
Good enough. Okay. We'll have you sit back

971
00:42:57,185 --> 00:42:59,285
to the front row and I know there's some folks

972
00:42:59,745 --> 00:43:00,745
One question.

973
00:43:00,745 --> 00:43:03,165
Yeah. Yeah.

974
00:43:04,355 --> 00:43:07,565
Gentlemen, all set? Yeah. Clear out.

975
00:43:07,995 --> 00:43:09,005
Make a call to public.

976
00:43:09,075 --> 00:43:11,685
Anybody in support of this application,

977
00:43:12,235 --> 00:43:14,565
this is your opportunity to come forward and be hurt.

978
00:43:15,825 --> 00:43:20,325
Seeing nobody rush the dais here. Anybody opposed?

979
00:43:20,435 --> 00:43:21,485
This is your opportunity.

980
00:43:31,505 --> 00:43:35,885
Mr. Foley. Have you

981
00:43:35,885 --> 00:43:37,285
introduced yourself for the record by

982
00:43:37,395 --> 00:43:38,395
I'll do that.

983
00:43:38,395 --> 00:43:39,645
My name is Jim Foley. I live at 1 78

984
00:43:40,085 --> 00:43:41,365
Hamstead Road here in dairy.

985
00:43:41,905 --> 00:43:42,925
Pardon me, Mr. Chair,

986
00:43:43,005 --> 00:43:45,245
if we could ensure proximity to the microphone, please.

987
00:43:45,705 --> 00:43:47,285
Can you speak? There you go. You got that.

988
00:43:48,265 --> 00:43:49,405
My name is Jim Foley.

989
00:43:49,405 --> 00:43:52,405
I live at 1 78 Hamstead Road here in dairy,

990
00:43:52,405 --> 00:43:54,725
and I'm one of the abutters to this property.

991
00:43:56,385 --> 00:43:59,285
So here my neighbors and I are, again,

992
00:44:01,985 --> 00:44:06,575
after two hearings in front of the ZBA last June

993
00:44:08,675 --> 00:44:12,215
and a decision that only five people

994
00:44:12,965 --> 00:44:16,115
thought was right, that would be the applicant,

995
00:44:16,455 --> 00:44:18,315
the three members of the board that voted for it.

996
00:44:19,335 --> 00:44:22,905
And Mr. Mackey, the variance was granted

997
00:44:22,965 --> 00:44:24,665
for an oversized commercial sign.

998
00:44:25,725 --> 00:44:27,145
Now, I mentioned Mr. Mackey

999
00:44:27,975 --> 00:44:32,835
because in doing our research for our appeal, we found some,

1000
00:44:32,835 --> 00:44:34,315
what we consider to be curious

1001
00:44:34,415 --> 00:44:36,635
and even disturbing emails between Mr.

1002
00:44:36,815 --> 00:44:40,535
Mackey and the sign company that was building the sign.

1003
00:44:41,315 --> 00:44:42,735
And I'm gonna hold you up right there

1004
00:44:42,735 --> 00:44:44,695
because I would, I would caution you

1005
00:44:44,695 --> 00:44:47,175
to stay on point about your, your the,

1006
00:44:47,315 --> 00:44:48,735
the lawfulness of this.

1007
00:44:49,245 --> 00:44:52,415
I've heard this before and I don't think it's accurate.

1008
00:44:52,635 --> 00:44:55,775
You've tried to indicate that he had some kind

1009
00:44:55,775 --> 00:44:56,895
of impression on the board.

1010
00:44:57,115 --> 00:45:00,855
The board never saw those emails and we don't get into that.

1011
00:45:01,045 --> 00:45:02,535
It's between code enforcement

1012
00:45:02,535 --> 00:45:05,375
and the code enforcement is by statute allowed

1013
00:45:05,375 --> 00:45:08,415
to give direction and helpfulness to the public

1014
00:45:08,835 --> 00:45:10,335
And superior court ruled that

1015
00:45:10,525 --> 00:45:11,855
that was not accurate. Okay.

1016
00:45:11,925 --> 00:45:16,135
This is my term. I did, I I didn't

1017
00:45:16,135 --> 00:45:16,735
Hear anything. So

1018
00:45:17,735 --> 00:45:19,495
I I would just state to the, The point fine.

1019
00:45:19,535 --> 00:45:21,535
I I will say this. I if there a question that was me.

1020
00:45:21,595 --> 00:45:22,775
You find it curious and unusual.

1021
00:45:23,035 --> 00:45:24,895
Mr. Foley. I'm sorry, I yelled at the attorney.

1022
00:45:24,895 --> 00:45:26,495
I think that was me who said Superior Court?

1023
00:45:26,655 --> 00:45:28,295
I didn't, I thought it came from behind you. Yes.

1024
00:45:28,615 --> 00:45:29,615
Superior Court found that that was

1025
00:45:29,615 --> 00:45:30,815
inaccurate. I just wanna restate

1026
00:45:30,815 --> 00:45:31,815
That.

1027
00:45:31,815 --> 00:45:32,375
It's not, it's not Mr. Mackey giving

1028
00:45:32,895 --> 00:45:34,815
a citizen direction how to get a separate system. Right.

1029
00:45:34,815 --> 00:45:36,455
Again, the Superior Court has ruled that

1030
00:45:36,455 --> 00:45:37,655
what you're stating is inaccurate.

1031
00:45:37,875 --> 00:45:40,055
What's that? That there was not any,

1032
00:45:40,125 --> 00:45:42,695
that we were not influenced by this, which is what Mr.

1033
00:45:42,715 --> 00:45:44,655
Per said. That was argument was never made

1034
00:45:44,655 --> 00:45:45,815
in front of the Superior Court.

1035
00:45:46,075 --> 00:45:48,135
The argument was we just filed that we felt

1036
00:45:48,135 --> 00:45:50,895
that there was some bias on this court towards the people

1037
00:45:50,895 --> 00:45:53,095
that were against this and the way that they were treated.

1038
00:45:55,995 --> 00:45:59,655
So in any case, a hearing was held in early November

1039
00:45:59,655 --> 00:46:00,975
before the Hillsborough Superior Court,

1040
00:46:00,975 --> 00:46:04,295
which Byrd Enterprise had not intervened, did not attend.

1041
00:46:04,945 --> 00:46:07,455
Again, relying on the town's attorney to prevent its case.

1042
00:46:08,515 --> 00:46:11,375
And a ruling handed down on the 31st of December,

1043
00:46:11,915 --> 00:46:15,215
the Hillsborough Superior Court ruled that

1044
00:46:15,825 --> 00:46:17,775
ruled against overturn the ZBA a's division

1045
00:46:17,795 --> 00:46:19,055
and vacated the variance.

1046
00:46:20,275 --> 00:46:22,855
No motion was for reconsidered as fired by the town

1047
00:46:23,435 --> 00:46:25,295
and no appeal was made to the Supreme Court.

1048
00:46:26,475 --> 00:46:27,695
The court's analysis

1049
00:46:28,235 --> 00:46:33,055
and decision rest on two points that first of all,

1050
00:46:33,915 --> 00:46:38,735
on four of the requirements for exceptions, no record made.

1051
00:46:39,355 --> 00:46:41,575
No record was made are appears in the record

1052
00:46:42,155 --> 00:46:45,855
for real estate values of good faith with the ordinance

1053
00:46:47,275 --> 00:46:48,535
and substantial justice.

1054
00:46:49,235 --> 00:46:51,575
But the other thing it did, they said there was enough

1055
00:46:51,575 --> 00:46:55,735
of a record that neither the applicant or this court

1056
00:46:55,915 --> 00:46:59,615
or this board had met the standard about

1057
00:46:59,805 --> 00:47:01,375
unnecessary hardship.

1058
00:47:02,235 --> 00:47:06,015
And nothing I've heard tonight changes that

1059
00:47:06,915 --> 00:47:09,335
the argument made tonight is virtually identical

1060
00:47:09,555 --> 00:47:12,495
to the application that was filed last June.

1061
00:47:12,495 --> 00:47:14,735
That was heard last June. Virtually identical.

1062
00:47:16,715 --> 00:47:18,935
Now this idea that we have compromised

1063
00:47:19,135 --> 00:47:20,455
'cause you remove the messaging center,

1064
00:47:20,805 --> 00:47:22,055
doesn't change the fact

1065
00:47:22,405 --> 00:47:25,535
that there's an oversized commercial sign

1066
00:47:26,965 --> 00:47:29,685
back lit in a residential neighborhood.

1067
00:47:31,215 --> 00:47:33,875
And whatever anecdotal stories we have about traffic

1068
00:47:33,935 --> 00:47:36,275
or whatever are the rest, it's a residential neighborhood.

1069
00:47:39,015 --> 00:47:41,755
The court ruled that you can't come to the hardship.

1070
00:47:42,895 --> 00:47:45,995
The court ruled that you can't have a self-created hardship

1071
00:47:46,255 --> 00:47:47,435
and then get a variance for it.

1072
00:47:48,945 --> 00:47:51,315
Bird Enterprise knew exactly what this land was,

1073
00:47:51,565 --> 00:47:52,635
where things were located

1074
00:47:52,655 --> 00:47:55,635
and what was going to happen to them before he purchased it.

1075
00:47:57,985 --> 00:47:59,685
If the business decision was

1076
00:47:59,685 --> 00:48:01,925
to invest over a million dollars in a property

1077
00:48:02,615 --> 00:48:04,605
based on a oversized commercial sign

1078
00:48:04,605 --> 00:48:07,085
and residential area, it's a bad business plan.

1079
00:48:08,425 --> 00:48:10,925
The court specifically rejected this theory,

1080
00:48:11,495 --> 00:48:14,285
which was argued by the town's attorney

1081
00:48:15,235 --> 00:48:18,245
that this is an acceptable business use

1082
00:48:20,505 --> 00:48:23,165
And that business usage commercial areas like this

1083
00:48:23,375 --> 00:48:24,685
could have signs like this.

1084
00:48:25,715 --> 00:48:27,525
What it ignores is the InBetween.

1085
00:48:27,875 --> 00:48:29,325
This is not a commercial lot.

1086
00:48:29,875 --> 00:48:31,565
Wait, could you repeat that last portion?

1087
00:48:31,565 --> 00:48:33,005
They stated the sign

1088
00:48:33,025 --> 00:48:34,645
and the business were both not permitted. The

1089
00:48:34,645 --> 00:48:35,845
Thing is, is that what they No, no, no.

1090
00:48:35,845 --> 00:48:37,805
Please what repeat, could you just repeat what you said?

1091
00:48:37,805 --> 00:48:39,445
You said the sign and the business were not,

1092
00:48:39,445 --> 00:48:40,405
they've ruled the sign and the,

1093
00:48:40,525 --> 00:48:41,485
I missed, I just missed what you said.

1094
00:48:41,485 --> 00:48:42,445
I'm, I don't understand what

1095
00:48:42,445 --> 00:48:43,445
You're asking.

1096
00:48:43,445 --> 00:48:45,165
I'm asking to repeat what you just said like 15 words ago.

1097
00:48:45,275 --> 00:48:49,725
What I'm saying is, is that the town attorney tried

1098
00:48:49,725 --> 00:48:52,685
to bootstrap that this is an allowed

1099
00:48:54,495 --> 00:48:56,205
usage in a residential area.

1100
00:48:56,345 --> 00:48:58,325
The sign, the no, the business,

1101
00:48:58,905 --> 00:49:02,445
the business is an allowed usage in a residential area.

1102
00:49:02,505 --> 00:49:04,365
The planning board made that decision. Yes.

1103
00:49:04,425 --> 00:49:08,885
If this is an allowed usage, then they try to bootstrap

1104
00:49:08,945 --> 00:49:13,445
by saying that businesses like this commonly have signs

1105
00:49:13,955 --> 00:49:15,925
like the one they're asking the variance for what

1106
00:49:15,925 --> 00:49:17,565
You just said that the business wasn't approved though.

1107
00:49:17,565 --> 00:49:18,845
Who stated that? What's

1108
00:49:18,845 --> 00:49:19,285
That? You

1109
00:49:19,285 --> 00:49:21,165
Said that business wasn't approved, which

1110
00:49:21,165 --> 00:49:23,325
Is what So the business was an approved use in a,

1111
00:49:23,545 --> 00:49:24,565
in a residential area.

1112
00:49:24,625 --> 00:49:26,605
Are you saying wasn't or I can't was Okay.

1113
00:49:26,685 --> 00:49:27,885
I misunderstood. That's, I'm sorry.

1114
00:49:27,885 --> 00:49:28,925
It was, I I thought you keep

1115
00:49:28,925 --> 00:49:30,765
saying wasn't That's why I was lost. I'm sorry. So,

1116
00:49:30,825 --> 00:49:31,885
So and this,

1117
00:49:31,905 --> 00:49:35,285
but to say that this is a sign that goes with this type of

1118
00:49:35,925 --> 00:49:38,185
business, you can't bootstrap them.

1119
00:49:38,365 --> 00:49:42,705
It is a allowed use within a residential area

1120
00:49:44,645 --> 00:49:46,665
and that's what differentiates from Harborside.

1121
00:49:47,685 --> 00:49:50,145
You had a commercial business

1122
00:49:50,645 --> 00:49:54,665
and a commercial area zone commercial.

1123
00:49:57,175 --> 00:49:58,825
Nothing that's been said tonight.

1124
00:49:58,855 --> 00:50:00,505
None of the presentations tonight.

1125
00:50:00,805 --> 00:50:03,065
The applicant is virtually the same

1126
00:50:03,525 --> 00:50:05,545
as the application was made in next last June

1127
00:50:05,765 --> 00:50:07,025
and has been overturned.

1128
00:50:08,965 --> 00:50:10,665
So you're Mr. Trip,

1129
00:50:11,885 --> 00:50:12,885
Can I ask you a question?

1130
00:50:13,045 --> 00:50:16,825
Yes. So it was a planning board that determined

1131
00:50:17,695 --> 00:50:22,385
that this was a commercial lot.

1132
00:50:24,045 --> 00:50:26,225
It was the planning board that said that the use,

1133
00:50:28,165 --> 00:50:29,525
I mean the history here is quite simple.

1134
00:50:29,585 --> 00:50:31,965
You can put a church anywhere you want to in, in this,

1135
00:50:32,065 --> 00:50:34,565
in this town, except there's one or two exceptions.

1136
00:50:34,625 --> 00:50:36,885
Church is put there, church goes outta business.

1137
00:50:37,825 --> 00:50:41,205
So it is this odd church use commercial, whatever.

1138
00:50:41,715 --> 00:50:44,925
What the applicant did was what before the planning board

1139
00:50:45,665 --> 00:50:48,005
and the planning board accepted the fact that the uses

1140
00:50:48,005 --> 00:50:50,525
that he wanted make of it was not such a change

1141
00:50:50,835 --> 00:50:53,045
that they could not, that they needed to go in front

1142
00:50:53,045 --> 00:50:54,525
of the zoning board to get it done.

1143
00:50:55,425 --> 00:50:58,005
So the use of the land

1144
00:50:58,745 --> 00:51:01,365
is an approved use within a residential area.

1145
00:51:01,705 --> 00:51:03,925
It is not a commercial lot.

1146
00:51:07,785 --> 00:51:09,645
So it is a Approved use.

1147
00:51:09,945 --> 00:51:12,245
It is an approved use of

1148
00:51:12,245 --> 00:51:14,845
that property within a residential area.

1149
00:51:16,265 --> 00:51:18,245
And the planning board determined that? Yes.

1150
00:51:20,575 --> 00:51:21,845
Thank you. Okay.

1151
00:51:23,625 --> 00:51:25,525
So that's what differentiates from Harborside.

1152
00:51:27,025 --> 00:51:29,555
What they're trying to do is put a commercial sign up

1153
00:51:30,535 --> 00:51:32,355
in a residential area.

1154
00:51:35,835 --> 00:51:37,565
They couldn't overcome the hardship

1155
00:51:38,125 --> 00:51:39,605
obstacle at the superior court,

1156
00:51:40,825 --> 00:51:42,325
nor tonight have they come over any

1157
00:51:42,325 --> 00:51:44,805
of the other obstacles about granting the variance.

1158
00:51:46,345 --> 00:51:47,685
Now the fact of the matter is,

1159
00:51:47,905 --> 00:51:50,525
is despite the variance being overturned,

1160
00:51:51,225 --> 00:51:53,085
the applicant went ahead and put the sign up.

1161
00:51:53,505 --> 00:51:54,485
And that's what makes things,

1162
00:51:54,675 --> 00:51:55,805
that makes some things different.

1163
00:51:57,155 --> 00:51:58,845
This is no longer in the hypothetical.

1164
00:51:59,505 --> 00:52:03,295
The sign's there, we know what it looks like.

1165
00:52:04,335 --> 00:52:07,195
We know what a nuisance it is. We can see it.

1166
00:52:07,495 --> 00:52:10,315
And I have a packet here for you folks that has,

1167
00:52:10,315 --> 00:52:14,475
among other things, the court's ruling my memorandum of law

1168
00:52:14,475 --> 00:52:15,515
that I presented to the court.

1169
00:52:15,985 --> 00:52:20,855
That is the basis for its ruling the picture

1170
00:52:21,155 --> 00:52:25,975
of the sign of the signs from my household, my house.

1171
00:52:26,395 --> 00:52:27,535
The fact of the matter is,

1172
00:52:27,975 --> 00:52:30,815
although this has been an, has been a violation

1173
00:52:30,815 --> 00:52:33,455
of the zoning ordinances since the 31st of December,

1174
00:52:34,275 --> 00:52:37,395
the applicant has made no move, no move

1175
00:52:38,255 --> 00:52:41,395
to take the thing down or even turn the lights off.

1176
00:52:42,295 --> 00:52:44,075
Now we were promised, when you look at your notes,

1177
00:52:44,295 --> 00:52:46,515
we were promised that this might be a sign be off at

1178
00:52:46,525 --> 00:52:48,395
7, 8, 9 after dark whatever.

1179
00:52:48,395 --> 00:52:50,235
They closed signs on all night,

1180
00:52:51,005 --> 00:52:53,555
signs on from dusk until dawn.

1181
00:52:54,695 --> 00:52:58,515
So just relevant to the information you wish to disperse,

1182
00:52:58,585 --> 00:53:00,635
this board's all is all aware

1183
00:53:00,855 --> 00:53:03,035
and probably have seen all of those documents.

1184
00:53:03,035 --> 00:53:05,515
But you should also understand this is not an appeal

1185
00:53:05,535 --> 00:53:07,035
of the Superior Court's ruling.

1186
00:53:07,425 --> 00:53:12,155
This is separate but references for clarity of exactly

1187
00:53:12,155 --> 00:53:15,395
what you're speaking of, which is you're, you're insinuating

1188
00:53:15,395 --> 00:53:19,075
that there's no changes that you're hearing now versus

1189
00:53:19,185 --> 00:53:20,955
what you heard several months ago.

1190
00:53:21,535 --> 00:53:22,635
I'm going to dispute that.

1191
00:53:22,815 --> 00:53:25,205
I'm gonna get into that in a couple minutes with you,

1192
00:53:26,025 --> 00:53:27,445
but I don't want to throw you off of your,

1193
00:53:27,885 --> 00:53:29,165
You you're not, you're not throwing off.

1194
00:53:29,255 --> 00:53:31,805
There are no changes. There is no hardship.

1195
00:53:31,805 --> 00:53:35,685
There's what is the claim is, is, is that there's a hardship

1196
00:53:35,685 --> 00:53:40,525
to the applicant that there's a financial hardship

1197
00:53:40,555 --> 00:53:42,285
here, neither of which

1198
00:53:42,645 --> 00:53:45,285
I didn't hear him say the sign was a financial

1199
00:53:45,525 --> 00:53:46,845
hardship. I heard him say, he said

1200
00:53:46,845 --> 00:53:47,965
That he needed, he Talked about

1201
00:53:48,195 --> 00:53:49,645
investing in his business.

1202
00:53:49,675 --> 00:53:51,845
Yeah. And he put his heart and his money into it.

1203
00:53:51,905 --> 00:53:55,165
But I didn't hear him say the sign is a financial hardship.

1204
00:53:55,165 --> 00:53:56,205
This is, which by the way,

1205
00:53:56,205 --> 00:53:58,045
is a disqualifier or another case law.

1206
00:53:58,265 --> 00:53:59,685
So let's make this clear.

1207
00:54:00,315 --> 00:54:02,085
This is also something that happened here

1208
00:54:02,085 --> 00:54:05,495
before we keep conflating the

1209
00:54:05,735 --> 00:54:07,175
business and the sign.

1210
00:54:09,595 --> 00:54:10,735
Mr. Chair, if we could just

1211
00:54:11,395 --> 00:54:12,975
Get closer to the mic. Get closer to the mic. Thank

1212
00:54:12,975 --> 00:54:13,975
You.

1213
00:54:13,975 --> 00:54:15,855
We keep conflating the business and the sign.

1214
00:54:17,605 --> 00:54:19,615
Last time we were here and the decision was made,

1215
00:54:20,195 --> 00:54:22,255
no one talked, no one gave a record,

1216
00:54:22,265 --> 00:54:23,615
which the court pointed out

1217
00:54:24,795 --> 00:54:25,855
No, no, no, no, no.

1218
00:54:26,155 --> 00:54:30,055
You wanted, you wanted a verbatim record minutes.

1219
00:54:30,355 --> 00:54:31,535
And that's what the court says.

1220
00:54:31,635 --> 00:54:32,655
Why is this confrontational?

1221
00:54:33,165 --> 00:54:34,255
It's not confrontational,

1222
00:54:34,435 --> 00:54:36,095
but I'm going to stand the ground here

1223
00:54:36,095 --> 00:54:38,255
because I'm not the one coming out

1224
00:54:38,255 --> 00:54:41,135
with false assertions against, against people,

1225
00:54:41,135 --> 00:54:42,775
people who've retired by now.

1226
00:54:43,315 --> 00:54:46,295
And so I want to just make sure the record is clear on this

1227
00:54:46,515 --> 00:54:48,655
and I happen to think that I have the same intensity

1228
00:54:48,805 --> 00:54:50,455
that you probably have towards me.

1229
00:54:50,635 --> 00:54:51,775
You don't live next to the sign,

1230
00:54:52,235 --> 00:54:53,235
It doesn't matter.

1231
00:54:53,235 --> 00:54:54,815
You're kid, you're, you're indicating that I'm

1232
00:54:55,335 --> 00:54:57,695
confrontational and I don't find that to be the case at all.

1233
00:54:58,365 --> 00:55:00,015
This is a quasi-judicial board.

1234
00:55:00,015 --> 00:55:02,055
My point is it's not, it's not a legislative

1235
00:55:02,515 --> 00:55:03,655
or executive board.

1236
00:55:03,915 --> 00:55:06,335
And it's gotta kept, be kept in that, in that light.

1237
00:55:06,895 --> 00:55:10,415
I fully understand that. My point is this, the court ruled

1238
00:55:10,685 --> 00:55:13,615
that there was not enough evidence within the record,

1239
00:55:14,275 --> 00:55:18,615
within the record on the other four prongs

1240
00:55:18,615 --> 00:55:22,575
for granting a variance that is within the court record.

1241
00:55:23,135 --> 00:55:26,135
I find it more to the point of the not declaring

1242
00:55:26,135 --> 00:55:27,815
what the unnecessary hardship is.

1243
00:55:28,755 --> 00:55:30,775
And it's been cited by attorney drescher.

1244
00:55:32,655 --> 00:55:34,795
You're, you're indicating that, and

1245
00:55:34,815 --> 00:55:36,995
and you referenced this a couple of minutes ago,

1246
00:55:37,345 --> 00:55:39,955
that there can't be a self-imposed hardship.

1247
00:55:40,235 --> 00:55:42,915
I don't happen to think this is a self-imposed hardship.

1248
00:55:43,415 --> 00:55:45,475
The, whether it's a commercial lot or,

1249
00:55:45,655 --> 00:55:50,275
or a approved use in a residential zone is, is kind

1250
00:55:50,275 --> 00:55:52,355
of immaterial on the hardship point.

1251
00:55:53,615 --> 00:55:57,235
The the hardship is not self-imposed in my view.

1252
00:55:57,535 --> 00:56:01,475
If the planning board has granted authorization, which,

1253
00:56:01,885 --> 00:56:05,275
which as you may recall, created quite a, quite a Firestone

1254
00:56:06,185 --> 00:56:09,915
firestorm of accusations when we heard this the first time,

1255
00:56:10,655 --> 00:56:13,235
the idea that the zoning board was in on it

1256
00:56:13,235 --> 00:56:17,115
with the planning board and, and the the general I was

1257
00:56:17,115 --> 00:56:18,115
Part of that conversation.

1258
00:56:18,115 --> 00:56:20,155
I'm sorry. Why you're bringing it up now. Well,

1259
00:56:20,415 --> 00:56:22,075
I'm just trying to clarify what my meeting

1260
00:56:22,175 --> 00:56:23,175
Is.

1261
00:56:23,175 --> 00:56:23,925
What I'm trying to clarify is this, and

1262
00:56:23,925 --> 00:56:25,005
you say this doesn't exist.

1263
00:56:25,115 --> 00:56:26,445
This is the court ruling.

1264
00:56:26,595 --> 00:56:28,805
However, here, based on the record

1265
00:56:28,825 --> 00:56:32,365
before it, the court cannot ascertain how the ZBA engaged

1266
00:56:32,365 --> 00:56:34,805
with the evidence and reach the conclusion the applicant

1267
00:56:35,165 --> 00:56:38,365
satisfied the first four variance criteria stated in the

1268
00:56:38,365 --> 00:56:40,245
context of the court's reviewing standard.

1269
00:56:40,505 --> 00:56:43,885
The record's not clear which evidence constitutes the ZBA

1270
00:56:43,905 --> 00:56:46,485
a's factual finding that this court must treat

1271
00:56:46,665 --> 00:56:48,605
as ly lawful and reasonable.

1272
00:56:50,275 --> 00:56:53,765
Well, we also didn't have somebody coming to us presenting

1273
00:56:54,345 --> 00:56:55,765
the variance in this style.

1274
00:56:55,825 --> 00:56:58,685
And I will say to you that in trying to,

1275
00:57:00,585 --> 00:57:04,125
in trying to accommodate the concerns of yourself

1276
00:57:04,305 --> 00:57:07,205
and your neighbors opening the door up,

1277
00:57:07,205 --> 00:57:09,325
and you may recall this, my, my gesture

1278
00:57:09,585 --> 00:57:12,565
to code enforcement about referencing

1279
00:57:12,665 --> 00:57:14,165
how the approval on this came

1280
00:57:14,275 --> 00:57:15,405
because it goes to

1281
00:57:15,405 --> 00:57:17,725
what I was just saying when you interrupted me a couple

1282
00:57:17,725 --> 00:57:22,165
minutes ago, is setting what the, what the environment was

1283
00:57:22,545 --> 00:57:24,925
for that meeting and what we were,

1284
00:57:25,075 --> 00:57:26,125
what we were dealing with.

1285
00:57:26,685 --> 00:57:29,125
I will share with you probably on the record,

1286
00:57:29,305 --> 00:57:31,685
it was not this board's best moment.

1287
00:57:32,545 --> 00:57:34,205
And every once in a while you get one

1288
00:57:34,205 --> 00:57:35,805
where it slips through the cracks.

1289
00:57:38,105 --> 00:57:41,165
But we're gonna talk about what's pertinent in this case

1290
00:57:41,505 --> 00:57:42,565
now, not,

1291
00:57:42,945 --> 00:57:46,285
not keep reflecting on the board's errors the last time.

1292
00:57:46,735 --> 00:57:48,925
Let's keep this in mind that the,

1293
00:57:48,995 --> 00:57:52,045
that the applicant has the ability, if this gets voted down

1294
00:57:52,665 --> 00:57:55,525
to come back, modify their sign application

1295
00:57:55,545 --> 00:57:56,565
and come back again.

1296
00:57:57,065 --> 00:57:58,885
If it's denied by code enforcement,

1297
00:57:58,885 --> 00:58:00,565
they have the right legally to ask

1298
00:58:00,565 --> 00:58:03,765
for an administrative appeal and come before the board

1299
00:58:03,765 --> 00:58:04,885
and ask for that clarity.

1300
00:58:05,785 --> 00:58:09,765
So, you know, ref continuing to reflect on, on

1301
00:58:09,765 --> 00:58:12,125
what happened several months ago, other than

1302
00:58:12,125 --> 00:58:15,205
to be constructive, to move this forward is

1303
00:58:15,235 --> 00:58:17,445
what I'm really trying to, to accomplish

1304
00:58:17,445 --> 00:58:18,445
Here.

1305
00:58:18,445 --> 00:58:18,645
Well, I I really don't

1306
00:58:18,645 --> 00:58:19,765
understand what you're trying to accomplish.

1307
00:58:19,765 --> 00:58:20,845
What I'm saying to you is

1308
00:58:20,845 --> 00:58:23,645
that I see in this application no significant difference

1309
00:58:23,755 --> 00:58:25,925
than the application that was prevented last June

1310
00:58:26,225 --> 00:58:28,965
and which the Superior Court overturned. Well this,

1311
00:58:29,115 --> 00:58:31,125
Well, the significant difference is the electronic

1312
00:58:31,125 --> 00:58:34,005
messaging sign and you had, is not attached

1313
00:58:34,025 --> 00:58:35,045
to this application.

1314
00:58:35,465 --> 00:58:39,125
And you had neighbor, you had people who were your neighbors

1315
00:58:39,145 --> 00:58:41,725
who were adjoined with you in your action.

1316
00:58:42,225 --> 00:58:44,885
And some of them were asked right out front, did you,

1317
00:58:44,905 --> 00:58:47,725
is is the problem here, the electronic messaging sign?

1318
00:58:47,865 --> 00:58:49,685
Or is it the pylon sign?

1319
00:58:49,745 --> 00:58:51,965
And it was the electronic messaging sign.

1320
00:58:52,345 --> 00:58:56,485
And as what was relayed by the applicant's attorney is that

1321
00:58:56,485 --> 00:58:58,005
that becomes the focal point

1322
00:58:58,425 --> 00:59:01,125
and why the board ends up tabling to the next meeting.

1323
00:59:01,355 --> 00:59:03,845
Because there's the, there's the, there's the,

1324
00:59:04,065 --> 00:59:05,885
the information about whether

1325
00:59:05,905 --> 00:59:09,165
or not that electronic messaging sign was going

1326
00:59:09,165 --> 00:59:10,965
to be a safety hazard along the road

1327
00:59:10,985 --> 00:59:12,565
or not. That was its focus.

1328
00:59:12,915 --> 00:59:15,765
Okay. And the focus is now the sign's up

1329
00:59:16,225 --> 00:59:18,205
and now we're opposed to the sign, we're opposed

1330
00:59:18,225 --> 00:59:22,845
to a 50 square foot back lick sign that is on

1331
00:59:23,445 --> 00:59:27,405
18 hours out of the day that can be seen in the houses

1332
00:59:27,705 --> 00:59:29,045
of all the abutter neighbors.

1333
00:59:29,265 --> 00:59:31,765
And you'll be prevented photographic signs of that.

1334
00:59:32,705 --> 00:59:35,085
And I would concur with you that the board's

1335
00:59:35,845 --> 00:59:40,045
decisions supported that there was conditional times that

1336
00:59:40,045 --> 00:59:41,645
that light would, would be on.

1337
00:59:41,745 --> 00:59:43,485
And, and I can't speak to whether

1338
00:59:43,485 --> 00:59:46,925
or not there's a, Mrs. Owen can maybe speak to this.

1339
00:59:47,065 --> 00:59:49,045
Is there an official complaint that the,

1340
00:59:49,045 --> 00:59:50,725
that the sign is on at night?

1341
00:59:50,945 --> 00:59:52,805
Yes, because I, there is there on record,

1342
00:59:53,295 --> 00:59:54,925
There is not a written complaint.

1343
00:59:55,035 --> 00:59:56,245
I've received conflicting

1344
00:59:56,245 --> 00:59:57,405
information over the last few weeks.

1345
00:59:58,275 --> 00:59:59,405
Alright. How about

1346
00:59:59,405 --> 01:00:01,485
after, what, what was the anniversary

1347
01:00:02,125 --> 01:00:03,925
decision on This came out January 2nd.

1348
01:00:04,465 --> 01:00:07,365
Yes. So yeah. So was there anything after January 2nd?

1349
01:00:08,545 --> 01:00:10,645
Yes, I was made aware a few weeks ago

1350
01:00:10,645 --> 01:00:11,965
that the, it may have been on.

1351
01:00:11,965 --> 01:00:14,445
Okay. About a week later, someone had notified me

1352
01:00:14,445 --> 01:00:15,485
that it had been turned off

1353
01:00:16,185 --> 01:00:18,565
and then last week I was notified that it may be on again.

1354
01:00:18,785 --> 01:00:22,005
So, and, and, and constructively when the board sets

1355
01:00:22,005 --> 01:00:24,285
conditions like that, it is to try

1356
01:00:24,285 --> 01:00:27,925
and appease those who have given co commentary

1357
01:00:28,185 --> 01:00:31,565
or opposition to an application so that you have your rights

1358
01:00:31,565 --> 01:00:34,565
to be able to, to, to complain about it.

1359
01:00:34,745 --> 01:00:37,525
And, and, and you're, you're allowed to do that.

1360
01:00:39,005 --> 01:00:41,365
I can't speak to the actions beyond, beyond

1361
01:00:41,365 --> 01:00:42,565
what goes on in this room.

1362
01:00:43,615 --> 01:00:47,365
There is no hardship in the land itself

1363
01:00:47,915 --> 01:00:50,445
that requires an oversized commercial sign.

1364
01:00:52,985 --> 01:00:55,245
You're correct. There may not be a

1365
01:00:56,405 --> 01:00:57,885
hardship in the land itself,

1366
01:00:58,385 --> 01:01:02,885
but the case law on hardship is broken into two, two phases.

1367
01:01:03,105 --> 01:01:05,605
And it's not just about the, the land itself.

1368
01:01:05,985 --> 01:01:09,885
The second prong of the two of the hardship question is

1369
01:01:10,405 --> 01:01:14,445
owing to specific circumstances to the land is not usable.

1370
01:01:14,465 --> 01:01:16,245
And that's not what's being asked here.

1371
01:01:17,585 --> 01:01:19,365
That's, it's, we're saying the same thing.

1372
01:01:20,005 --> 01:01:22,005
Whatever that specific circumstances is

1373
01:01:22,145 --> 01:01:24,605
to the land does not constant hardship

1374
01:01:24,985 --> 01:01:27,725
to putting up a commercial sign in residential areas. So it

1375
01:01:27,725 --> 01:01:29,485
Goes to the other prong of the hardship

1376
01:01:29,915 --> 01:01:31,085
Goes to both prongs.

1377
01:01:31,085 --> 01:01:32,085
There is no hardship.

1378
01:01:32,425 --> 01:01:36,765
And the fact of the matter is as again, argument made

1379
01:01:36,765 --> 01:01:39,765
before the judge is, is the fact of the matter is, is

1380
01:01:39,765 --> 01:01:42,485
that he specifically said there was no hardship.

1381
01:01:43,025 --> 01:01:44,805
And whether, you know, folks, what were argued, what

1382
01:01:44,805 --> 01:01:46,805
that sort of stuff, it does not change the fact

1383
01:01:48,605 --> 01:01:51,015
that this is a approved use.

1384
01:01:51,165 --> 01:01:53,855
It's not a commercial lot that

1385
01:01:53,855 --> 01:01:56,255
however wonderful that business is,

1386
01:01:56,585 --> 01:01:58,735
which is now being called a school instead of a clinic

1387
01:01:58,875 --> 01:02:02,695
as it was originally proved use, whatever that use is

1388
01:02:02,695 --> 01:02:03,975
and how good it is and how good it is

1389
01:02:03,975 --> 01:02:05,495
to have a baseball thing here,

1390
01:02:05,495 --> 01:02:08,735
as we heard in the last hearings, the fact of the matter is

1391
01:02:09,905 --> 01:02:12,095
we're talking about the sign not the business.

1392
01:02:13,515 --> 01:02:17,535
And there is no hardship created that allows

1393
01:02:17,535 --> 01:02:18,775
that sign to be up there.

1394
01:02:19,455 --> 01:02:21,525
Along with that I would disagree.

1395
01:02:21,705 --> 01:02:24,365
We also, we have our letters from our realtors

1396
01:02:24,795 --> 01:02:26,845
that say it does diminishes our land value.

1397
01:02:27,625 --> 01:02:31,765
It is not, it is against the idea of the, of the ordinance,

1398
01:02:31,765 --> 01:02:33,525
which is to maintain this residential area.

1399
01:02:34,475 --> 01:02:36,245
Anecdotally, you can say whatever you

1400
01:02:36,245 --> 01:02:37,405
want about Hamstead Road.

1401
01:02:37,605 --> 01:02:40,805
I live on it. Speed limit's still 30, 35 miles an hour

1402
01:02:40,805 --> 01:02:43,805
depending where you are bypass 28 is 45 or 50.

1403
01:02:44,905 --> 01:02:45,905
But it's busy, isn't It?

1404
01:02:45,905 --> 01:02:48,085
What's that? It's a busy road, isn't it? Yes. What's that?

1405
01:02:48,085 --> 01:02:50,165
And there's been accidents there. Correct?

1406
01:02:50,415 --> 01:02:53,805
Where the road that you just referenced, the very one

1407
01:02:53,805 --> 01:02:55,445
that you live on that you said Hamstead

1408
01:02:55,445 --> 01:02:57,765
Road is, is, is, I have no doubt it's a busy road.

1409
01:02:57,765 --> 01:02:59,405
It's still a road in a residential area.

1410
01:03:00,025 --> 01:03:02,845
The usage of the road does not change the residential area.

1411
01:03:03,545 --> 01:03:05,125
You can't bootstrap that one either.

1412
01:03:06,115 --> 01:03:09,685
Bootstrap. Well, I'm, I I guess my, my thought on,

1413
01:03:09,825 --> 01:03:12,485
on whether or not I, I use the reference whether it's

1414
01:03:13,645 --> 01:03:16,445
a residential street or, or kind of a bypass

1415
01:03:16,595 --> 01:03:18,525
because it is, it is different.

1416
01:03:18,915 --> 01:03:20,485
It's not Olson road is it?

1417
01:03:20,905 --> 01:03:22,405
How does it change? But it's not ol

1418
01:03:22,845 --> 01:03:23,845
Olson road is it?

1419
01:03:23,845 --> 01:03:24,325
How does it change the zoning? How does

1420
01:03:24,325 --> 01:03:26,085
that change the busyness of the road?

1421
01:03:26,305 --> 01:03:27,685
How does that change that,

1422
01:03:28,575 --> 01:03:30,035
the characterization of

1423
01:03:30,035 --> 01:03:31,435
that zoning? How does that change that?

1424
01:03:31,735 --> 01:03:34,675
The the point is that is that it goes no, hey, hey,

1425
01:03:34,795 --> 01:03:36,795
I I'm not gonna talk back and forth over you.

1426
01:03:36,895 --> 01:03:38,875
We need a clean record. You asked a question.

1427
01:03:38,895 --> 01:03:40,515
Yes, I'm answering the question. Right.

1428
01:03:40,895 --> 01:03:44,635
It goes to the difference of, of what that road is and,

1429
01:03:44,855 --> 01:03:47,555
and how it's, how it's shaped and how it's designed.

1430
01:03:47,815 --> 01:03:50,155
And it's going to go to those other four prongs

1431
01:03:50,155 --> 01:03:52,435
that you declare that the board did not

1432
01:03:52,435 --> 01:03:54,475
have adequately on record. So,

1433
01:03:54,855 --> 01:03:57,515
So it is your, it is your contention

1434
01:03:59,845 --> 01:04:04,675
that a road is what changes the zoning ordinance.

1435
01:04:04,895 --> 01:04:07,075
It is my contention that it could attribute

1436
01:04:07,095 --> 01:04:10,995
to the five criteria in total and what the board may decide

1437
01:04:10,995 --> 01:04:11,995
And which criteria does.

1438
01:04:11,995 --> 01:04:13,635
And which criteria does that attribute to,

1439
01:04:13,635 --> 01:04:14,675
which is the five criteria

1440
01:04:15,355 --> 01:04:19,715
Public interest of spirit of the ordinance.

1441
01:04:20,615 --> 01:04:21,635
Spirit of the ordinance.

1442
01:04:21,635 --> 01:04:23,115
Is is that that's a residential area.

1443
01:04:23,255 --> 01:04:25,155
Please explain to me again. 'cause I've heard this.

1444
01:04:25,415 --> 01:04:26,715
I'm not going to explain it to you.

1445
01:04:26,785 --> 01:04:29,355
It's not my, it's not my job to spent,

1446
01:04:29,485 --> 01:04:30,485
Spent a lot time doing it.

1447
01:04:30,485 --> 01:04:34,715
Mr. Perkins explaining to me what's going on in my

1448
01:04:35,535 --> 01:04:37,355
zoning in my, in my district.

1449
01:04:37,425 --> 01:04:41,355
That it's a very busy road. Yeah, that was my point.

1450
01:04:42,775 --> 01:04:44,875
I'm not gonna be badged by you. I'm not nor as the

1451
01:04:44,875 --> 01:04:46,195
Board. I don't What's that sir?

1452
01:04:46,205 --> 01:04:48,075
We're not going to be badged by you.

1453
01:04:50,175 --> 01:04:51,555
And you know, the fact of the matter is,

1454
01:04:51,555 --> 01:04:53,315
is you just said it wasn't your best moments.

1455
01:04:54,035 --> 01:04:57,275
I said everyone, Everyone, everyone who appeared

1456
01:04:57,275 --> 01:04:59,635
before you the last three times regard,

1457
01:04:59,635 --> 01:05:01,515
the last two times regarded this felt

1458
01:05:01,515 --> 01:05:02,795
that we were badgered by the board

1459
01:05:03,615 --> 01:05:04,615
That's given.

1460
01:05:04,615 --> 01:05:06,915
And I've, and I've defined for you what this board is.

1461
01:05:08,875 --> 01:05:12,795
I I your your your tenor, your, your, your,

1462
01:05:15,545 --> 01:05:17,485
your temperament is probably the

1463
01:05:17,485 --> 01:05:18,605
same that you're seeing from me.

1464
01:05:19,065 --> 01:05:21,925
We don't have to sit here and, and and be badgered, right?

1465
01:05:22,285 --> 01:05:25,125
I am again, here we are again.

1466
01:05:25,235 --> 01:05:28,605
Yeah. We have a we have

1467
01:05:30,045 --> 01:05:31,245
a zoning violation,

1468
01:05:33,375 --> 01:05:37,605
Which is what An oversized commercial sign which has no

1469
01:05:37,605 --> 01:05:39,125
variance in a residential area.

1470
01:05:40,435 --> 01:05:43,925
Okay. And neither this board

1471
01:05:43,925 --> 01:05:46,005
or the town seems to be interested in that fact.

1472
01:05:47,235 --> 01:05:49,965
Well, and the fact, I can't say we're not interested in

1473
01:05:49,965 --> 01:05:51,845
it, but you're, you're bringing up some points

1474
01:05:51,845 --> 01:05:53,365
that are self-focused.

1475
01:05:54,995 --> 01:05:56,285
What, what's that? What I

1476
01:05:56,285 --> 01:05:57,405
don't understand what that means.

1477
01:05:58,155 --> 01:06:02,125
Self focus means let's reference the idea that you have,

1478
01:06:03,115 --> 01:06:05,965
that you have that property values will,

1479
01:06:05,965 --> 01:06:06,965
would be diminished.

1480
01:06:07,185 --> 01:06:09,885
And you have your documents. Mr.

1481
01:06:11,115 --> 01:06:15,085
Drexler has, drescher has presented two documents from

1482
01:06:15,105 --> 01:06:16,285
two different resources.

1483
01:06:16,745 --> 01:06:19,325
But the courts, the higher courts have established

1484
01:06:19,325 --> 01:06:22,325
that the board has, has that ability within itself

1485
01:06:22,665 --> 01:06:23,765
to establish whether

1486
01:06:23,785 --> 01:06:27,845
or not the, the documents presented, which is

1487
01:06:27,845 --> 01:06:30,725
what we did the last time several months ago,

1488
01:06:31,345 --> 01:06:33,685
has the knowledge to be able to regard

1489
01:06:33,705 --> 01:06:36,645
or disregard that information as accurate or valid.

1490
01:06:41,715 --> 01:06:45,805
Okay. I'm not sure where

1491
01:06:45,805 --> 01:06:47,045
that, where that question was.

1492
01:06:47,305 --> 01:06:48,645
The fact is, is that to this point,

1493
01:06:49,635 --> 01:06:52,445
this whole discussion has been over the hardship

1494
01:06:53,145 --> 01:06:56,165
and the hardship has already been ruled on.

1495
01:06:56,425 --> 01:06:58,005
And there's no substantial difference

1496
01:06:58,005 --> 01:07:00,765
between the applicant application before.

1497
01:07:00,765 --> 01:07:01,845
And the application now

1498
01:07:03,185 --> 01:07:04,685
Except substantial difference doesn't have an

1499
01:07:04,685 --> 01:07:05,885
electronic messaging sign.

1500
01:07:05,885 --> 01:07:10,405
And it's the applicant's right to be able to continue to, to

1501
01:07:11,025 --> 01:07:12,565
adjust the application

1502
01:07:12,785 --> 01:07:15,885
and ask for relief in different venues.

1503
01:07:16,035 --> 01:07:17,445
Okay? The sign is different.

1504
01:07:17,905 --> 01:07:21,845
The reasoning behind GI putting a commercial sign in a

1505
01:07:21,845 --> 01:07:23,085
residential area okay.

1506
01:07:23,585 --> 01:07:25,245
Has not changed. But

1507
01:07:25,245 --> 01:07:27,445
Mr. Foley Is, the AR arguments are virtually the same.

1508
01:07:27,815 --> 01:07:30,245
Could it be argued that the commercial sign is for a com?

1509
01:07:30,245 --> 01:07:31,565
It's for a commercial use though,

1510
01:07:31,675 --> 01:07:33,885
because the property is now, is now commercial.

1511
01:07:34,595 --> 01:07:35,805
Like what's there is commercial.

1512
01:07:35,805 --> 01:07:39,005
What was there previously institutionally was a church.

1513
01:07:39,225 --> 01:07:40,485
See this is, we now have, excuse me,

1514
01:07:40,485 --> 01:07:41,965
we now have multiple approved uses

1515
01:07:42,435 --> 01:07:44,685
that there is a special condition.

1516
01:07:45,185 --> 01:07:46,685
So now that makes it

1517
01:07:46,685 --> 01:07:48,725
that we have a lawful use of the property.

1518
01:07:49,465 --> 01:07:52,085
Why aren't they allowed now to identify that lawful use?

1519
01:07:52,315 --> 01:07:54,365
That that is the definition of a hardship.

1520
01:07:55,705 --> 01:07:57,725
The the judge addresses that matter.

1521
01:07:57,805 --> 01:07:59,645
I doesn't that That's not this case. Doesn't case.

1522
01:07:59,645 --> 01:08:00,965
That's not this case though. What's

1523
01:08:00,965 --> 01:08:01,965
That?

1524
01:08:01,965 --> 01:08:02,645
That was not for this case.

1525
01:08:03,915 --> 01:08:05,325
It's gonna be the same argument.

1526
01:08:06,315 --> 01:08:07,765
It's going to be the same argument.

1527
01:08:07,865 --> 01:08:10,685
You cannot bootstrap off the fact that it's an approved use.

1528
01:08:10,955 --> 01:08:12,085
It's not a commercial lot.

1529
01:08:12,555 --> 01:08:14,765
It's approved use within a residential zone.

1530
01:08:15,905 --> 01:08:18,205
Yes. But now, And his sign,

1531
01:08:18,385 --> 01:08:20,405
Excuse me, you can't Mr. Foley.

1532
01:08:20,525 --> 01:08:22,405
I understand, but listen, I apologize

1533
01:08:22,405 --> 01:08:23,725
before that I misheard you.

1534
01:08:23,945 --> 01:08:25,805
But you have come up extremely aggressive

1535
01:08:26,105 --> 01:08:27,925
and for someone who has gone before the town council

1536
01:08:28,265 --> 01:08:29,645
and is referred to us as demeaning,

1537
01:08:29,645 --> 01:08:30,845
condescending, and misogynistic.

1538
01:08:30,865 --> 01:08:32,085
You were, I no, we were not.

1539
01:08:32,225 --> 01:08:35,605
And again, that's liable and I really don't appreciate it.

1540
01:08:35,605 --> 01:08:37,965
You're up here again attacking. We're trying to speak.

1541
01:08:38,105 --> 01:08:40,765
I'm not why can't, why am I catching all of your fire?

1542
01:08:41,425 --> 01:08:42,885
I'm trying to like, I'm trying to sit here.

1543
01:08:43,395 --> 01:08:44,645
I've left my family. I'm listening.

1544
01:08:44,645 --> 01:08:46,565
But you just come up and attack like can we please,

1545
01:08:46,665 --> 01:08:48,045
all I'm asking is when we all just be calm.

1546
01:08:48,985 --> 01:08:50,765
I'm sorry. Having looked at the tapes

1547
01:08:50,765 --> 01:08:52,605
of the first hearing on this and being involved.

1548
01:08:52,665 --> 01:08:53,885
Yes. When your neighbor came up and said

1549
01:08:53,885 --> 01:08:55,445
Being involved in the second one, confrontation

1550
01:08:55,445 --> 01:08:56,645
started on the side of this board.

1551
01:08:56,785 --> 01:08:58,165
No, it came up when your neighbor said

1552
01:08:58,165 --> 01:09:00,525
that we formulated a plan behind closed doors legally

1553
01:09:00,705 --> 01:09:03,165
and thought we were the planning board and attacked us.

1554
01:09:03,275 --> 01:09:05,125
That is where it started. And you could see on June 5th.

1555
01:09:06,025 --> 01:09:07,805
And so I would hope that when the chair

1556
01:09:08,065 --> 01:09:10,205
or the town council does review it again this time

1557
01:09:10,385 --> 01:09:11,725
as they stated that they see

1558
01:09:11,725 --> 01:09:13,285
that once again you came up attacking

1559
01:09:13,545 --> 01:09:15,165
and I know you're gonna misrepresent it again

1560
01:09:15,345 --> 01:09:18,085
as we have a long history of doing. So let's please just

1561
01:09:18,695 --> 01:09:19,525
Stick to the case. I have a history.

1562
01:09:20,425 --> 01:09:22,605
Yes. Okay. So let's please stick to the case at hand.

1563
01:09:22,785 --> 01:09:27,525
The case at hand is this, the application except

1564
01:09:27,525 --> 01:09:31,045
for the size of the sign is virtually identical

1565
01:09:31,705 --> 01:09:33,405
to the applications made last June.

1566
01:09:35,435 --> 01:09:37,565
They have made no new arguments

1567
01:09:37,785 --> 01:09:39,645
or different arguments than the one

1568
01:09:39,645 --> 01:09:41,405
that was presented last June

1569
01:09:41,785 --> 01:09:45,965
or was presented in front of the court in October last year.

1570
01:09:48,205 --> 01:09:49,805
I think that's, I think that's your opinion.

1571
01:09:51,265 --> 01:09:54,925
And I I what I'm gonna suggest is that instead of continuing

1572
01:09:54,925 --> 01:09:57,045
to reference what happened last June

1573
01:09:57,105 --> 01:09:59,405
and then again last October, the decision

1574
01:09:59,405 --> 01:10:02,885
that was rendered in January 2nd is that your contention is

1575
01:10:02,885 --> 01:10:06,565
that the first four prongs you felt we didn't satisfy

1576
01:10:07,465 --> 01:10:10,605
you keep resting on the unnecessary hardship is

1577
01:10:10,605 --> 01:10:12,045
not adequate this time.

1578
01:10:12,825 --> 01:10:15,325
Why don't you try and make your case on the other four

1579
01:10:15,465 --> 01:10:19,165
prongs and then you can rest and have somebody else come up.

1580
01:10:19,465 --> 01:10:21,165
We made the case on the other four

1581
01:10:21,305 --> 01:10:23,365
prongs on our previous hearing.

1582
01:10:23,785 --> 01:10:25,565
I'm waiting for you to do it on this

1583
01:10:25,565 --> 01:10:26,565
Hearing.

1584
01:10:26,565 --> 01:10:27,925
I'll tell you that. An oversized commercial sign

1585
01:10:27,945 --> 01:10:29,325
and we have our own letters

1586
01:10:29,985 --> 01:10:32,525
and a residential area which can be seen

1587
01:10:32,545 --> 01:10:34,565
and actually shines into the houses

1588
01:10:34,665 --> 01:10:37,605
of the abutters diminishes land values. I'm

1589
01:10:37,605 --> 01:10:39,325
Sure we'll address the light on at night.

1590
01:10:39,385 --> 01:10:41,405
Am I correct Ms. Owen? Yes. All right.

1591
01:10:42,035 --> 01:10:43,645
That aside, what next?

1592
01:10:44,505 --> 01:10:46,925
It is not in the spirits of the ordinance.

1593
01:10:47,875 --> 01:10:52,325
This is meant to be a low medium residential density area.

1594
01:10:53,625 --> 01:10:54,885
It is a residential area.

1595
01:10:55,205 --> 01:10:57,125
Whatever you wanna say about the road is a residential.

1596
01:10:57,545 --> 01:11:01,695
It is, it will be the only

1597
01:11:02,905 --> 01:11:04,895
commercial sign on Hamstead Road.

1598
01:11:07,935 --> 01:11:10,565
There is no substantial hardship as we have gone over

1599
01:11:11,905 --> 01:11:14,805
and there is no substantial justice being served here.

1600
01:11:16,945 --> 01:11:18,845
It is the neighborhood that's being diminished.

1601
01:11:19,385 --> 01:11:22,005
Not the applicant. The applicant.

1602
01:11:22,865 --> 01:11:26,045
Go ahead. I wanted the answer

1603
01:11:26,045 --> 01:11:28,005
to something you were gonna say, but go ahead. What's

1604
01:11:28,005 --> 01:11:29,005
That?

1605
01:11:29,005 --> 01:11:30,125
You proceed. The Applicant.

1606
01:11:30,265 --> 01:11:34,455
The applicant, his

1607
01:11:35,115 --> 01:11:37,695
his business does not rely on this sign.

1608
01:11:40,305 --> 01:11:42,125
The business does not rely on this sign.

1609
01:11:42,955 --> 01:11:46,365
It's as simple as that. If the business, if the amount

1610
01:11:46,365 --> 01:11:48,205
of money that he's invested in, the passion, all that

1611
01:11:48,205 --> 01:11:51,805
that he's invested in in this business relies on

1612
01:11:51,805 --> 01:11:53,445
that sign then I'll say it again.

1613
01:11:53,795 --> 01:11:55,125
It's a bad business plan.

1614
01:11:55,395 --> 01:11:58,005
Basically he wants this sign,

1615
01:11:59,905 --> 01:12:02,995
there's no other reason for it doesn't need the sign.

1616
01:12:03,065 --> 01:12:04,065
It's not required.

1617
01:12:06,585 --> 01:12:08,795
What is the basis for the decision on Harbor

1618
01:12:08,795 --> 01:12:10,315
Harborside? Do you remember?

1619
01:12:11,125 --> 01:12:14,795
Basis, but again, I will distinguish it from Harborside.

1620
01:12:14,995 --> 01:12:16,795
I will distinguish it from Harborside.

1621
01:12:16,975 --> 01:12:19,355
And that Harborside was a commercial

1622
01:12:19,635 --> 01:12:20,955
building in a commercial.

1623
01:12:21,955 --> 01:12:23,515
I I know what it, a commercial. I know what it was.

1624
01:12:23,695 --> 01:12:25,875
I'm asking you if you knew what the, the basis

1625
01:12:26,015 --> 01:12:27,475
for the decision was. That

1626
01:12:27,595 --> 01:12:28,595
The, the, and You've

1627
01:12:28,595 --> 01:12:29,555
Referenced it.

1628
01:12:29,555 --> 01:12:31,835
The fact is is that the fact is the signs were too small

1629
01:12:31,855 --> 01:12:33,115
for the area that it was in.

1630
01:12:33,115 --> 01:12:35,795
It was an unnecessary hardship upon it created an

1631
01:12:35,795 --> 01:12:39,115
unnecessary hardship upon that particular lot in

1632
01:12:39,115 --> 01:12:41,195
that particular situation. Again,

1633
01:12:41,575 --> 01:12:44,475
My recollection is the decision rendered around the fact

1634
01:12:44,475 --> 01:12:46,755
that it didn't change the character of the neighborhood.

1635
01:12:47,175 --> 01:12:48,795
And that's the focus of the four

1636
01:12:48,815 --> 01:12:50,555
of the other prongs that you're getting at.

1637
01:12:50,565 --> 01:12:52,515
Which is the argument I'm waiting for you to make.

1638
01:12:52,985 --> 01:12:55,355
Does it change the characteristics of the neighborhood?

1639
01:12:55,635 --> 01:12:56,635
I will. Does this sign?

1640
01:12:56,815 --> 01:12:58,395
Of course it does. In which way?

1641
01:12:59,265 --> 01:13:01,115
It's an oversized commercial sign. See,

1642
01:13:01,475 --> 01:13:03,555
I I don't care about the sign the size.

1643
01:13:03,695 --> 01:13:06,235
It was, that was part of the issue with Harborside.

1644
01:13:06,585 --> 01:13:09,475
What, how does this sign set back from the road

1645
01:13:09,615 --> 01:13:12,955
as it is affect the characteristics of the neighborhood?

1646
01:13:13,175 --> 01:13:16,635
It is the only oversized commercial sign

1647
01:13:17,335 --> 01:13:18,875
on Hampstead Road being

1648
01:13:18,895 --> 01:13:19,895
The only sign.

1649
01:13:19,895 --> 01:13:21,835
Like that is not the only reason

1650
01:13:22,025 --> 01:13:25,075
that it changes the characteristics of the neighborhood.

1651
01:13:25,255 --> 01:13:26,755
And that's the argument right now.

1652
01:13:26,815 --> 01:13:28,915
I'm waiting for you to make the argument I made,

1653
01:13:29,235 --> 01:13:31,995
I made the reference that three miles down the road there's

1654
01:13:31,995 --> 01:13:33,755
another similar sign just like this.

1655
01:13:34,135 --> 01:13:35,595
And if you come east or

1656
01:13:35,615 --> 01:13:38,235
or west of that, there's another sign similar to that.

1657
01:13:38,535 --> 01:13:41,155
But they're spread out and they're given acceptance.

1658
01:13:41,535 --> 01:13:44,795
One because it's not within the, the parameters

1659
01:13:44,795 --> 01:13:46,475
of the community and the other

1660
01:13:46,475 --> 01:13:49,355
because of the dating of, of the establishment

1661
01:13:49,355 --> 01:13:50,835
that's been there for 200 years.

1662
01:13:52,095 --> 01:13:54,035
So these are all the special exceptions that,

1663
01:13:54,105 --> 01:13:57,915
that the court grants this board the, the ability to,

1664
01:13:58,375 --> 01:14:01,635
to find relief when it's being asked for.

1665
01:14:01,815 --> 01:14:04,995
And you still haven't been able to identify what the focus

1666
01:14:05,055 --> 01:14:06,835
of Harborside was, which is,

1667
01:14:07,225 --> 01:14:09,555
it's in its district three in Portsmouth.

1668
01:14:09,735 --> 01:14:13,405
The hotel next to it is in district four, but it didn't,

1669
01:14:13,405 --> 01:14:15,165
but the signs don't change the

1670
01:14:15,165 --> 01:14:16,485
characteristic of the neighborhood.

1671
01:14:16,745 --> 01:14:18,605
And that's the focus of the argument

1672
01:14:18,745 --> 01:14:20,565
and that's what case law supports.

1673
01:14:21,625 --> 01:14:23,445
The fact of the matter is, is is

1674
01:14:23,445 --> 01:14:25,085
that the sign three miles down the road,

1675
01:14:25,315 --> 01:14:26,325
it's in a different town.

1676
01:14:26,645 --> 01:14:28,925
I already said that. Okay. So how does, how does

1677
01:14:28,925 --> 01:14:30,245
that affect my residential area?

1678
01:14:30,385 --> 01:14:32,245
But you do see that out there and you,

1679
01:14:32,305 --> 01:14:35,605
and it's not up to me to prove to you that it's going

1680
01:14:35,605 --> 01:14:37,205
to affect your residential area.

1681
01:14:37,475 --> 01:14:39,965
It's up for you to establish that it will

1682
01:14:40,825 --> 01:14:42,765
No, it's up to him to prove

1683
01:14:42,765 --> 01:14:45,245
that it doesn't affect the residential area. But you

1684
01:14:45,245 --> 01:14:47,125
Are the abutter and you're supposed to make

1685
01:14:47,125 --> 01:14:48,725
that case for yourself.

1686
01:14:49,585 --> 01:14:50,925
And I don't think you have yet,

1687
01:14:51,465 --> 01:14:52,965
and I'm just being fair about this,

1688
01:14:52,985 --> 01:14:54,125
You're not being fair at all.

1689
01:14:54,315 --> 01:14:55,405
Okay? You're not being fair at all.

1690
01:14:55,545 --> 01:14:57,605
You bring up a sign that's in a different town.

1691
01:14:58,385 --> 01:15:00,485
How does that affect my zoning?

1692
01:15:00,865 --> 01:15:03,485
It goes to the sporadicness of that road

1693
01:15:03,745 --> 01:15:06,405
and the, the design of that road,

1694
01:15:06,535 --> 01:15:09,605
which you asked me about 10 minutes ago, what that had to do

1695
01:15:09,605 --> 01:15:11,005
with, with this question.

1696
01:15:11,615 --> 01:15:13,445
Again, I don't understand how,

1697
01:15:14,075 --> 01:15:15,075
Alright, Mr.

1698
01:15:15,075 --> 01:15:17,045
Chair, I don't understand how

1699
01:15:17,565 --> 01:15:18,725
I yield Mr. Donlan

1700
01:15:19,305 --> 01:15:20,305
If I'm not mistaken.

1701
01:15:20,495 --> 01:15:24,405
Isn't there a ho a horse property like within a quarter mile

1702
01:15:24,405 --> 01:15:29,045
of this property that has a sign on the street so that

1703
01:15:29,265 --> 01:15:30,685
Not back lit or oversized?

1704
01:15:31,075 --> 01:15:34,085
Well, I I don't know how exacting the oversized is.

1705
01:15:34,105 --> 01:15:36,085
Can you define what oversized is somewhere?

1706
01:15:37,555 --> 01:15:41,205
Yeah. The, the, the zoning ordinance allows certain signs,

1707
01:15:41,905 --> 01:15:43,245
allows certain variances.

1708
01:15:43,505 --> 01:15:46,365
Now that sign that's there has been there for as long

1709
01:15:46,425 --> 01:15:50,165
as I have been in dairy, which is now 26 years.

1710
01:15:51,025 --> 01:15:54,325
So to characterize an oversized sign

1711
01:15:55,345 --> 01:15:56,965
as being oversized simply

1712
01:15:56,965 --> 01:15:59,685
because there is no dimensions

1713
01:15:59,685 --> 01:16:02,565
for the sign seems somewhat arbitrary to me.

1714
01:16:04,165 --> 01:16:05,365
'cause you can't reference it as an

1715
01:16:05,365 --> 01:16:06,605
oversized commercial sign.

1716
01:16:06,605 --> 01:16:09,445
If you want to reference it to the residential sign size

1717
01:16:12,635 --> 01:16:17,015
Within the zoning ordinances, there is a, there are rules

1718
01:16:17,115 --> 01:16:18,735
for how large the signs can be.

1719
01:16:19,425 --> 01:16:22,975
Right? Okay. And for him to grant a variance

1720
01:16:23,635 --> 01:16:25,215
to put a commercial sign in there

1721
01:16:25,365 --> 01:16:29,175
that doesn't meet those means that that sign is oversized.

1722
01:16:30,315 --> 01:16:31,975
It means that the sign's not allowed.

1723
01:16:31,975 --> 01:16:33,455
That's why he's here for the variance.

1724
01:16:36,445 --> 01:16:39,185
Yes. So I'll again say that he's asking

1725
01:16:39,185 --> 01:16:42,105
to put out oversized backlit sign

1726
01:16:42,725 --> 01:16:44,025
in a residential neighborhood.

1727
01:16:45,365 --> 01:16:47,705
So is the backlit part is a,

1728
01:16:47,725 --> 01:16:49,065
is a contention to you as well?

1729
01:16:50,325 --> 01:16:52,025
Yes. Okay. It's a huge contention.

1730
01:16:52,085 --> 01:16:53,745
That's what shines into my house at night.

1731
01:16:55,095 --> 01:16:56,465
What if it was a flagpole?

1732
01:16:58,305 --> 01:16:59,705
I don't know how that's relevant.

1733
01:17:00,565 --> 01:17:01,665
It would be lit, wouldn't it?

1734
01:17:03,225 --> 01:17:04,265
I don't know how that's relevant.

1735
01:17:05,215 --> 01:17:06,425
Well, if the light is offensive,

1736
01:17:06,835 --> 01:17:08,185
would the light of a flat, I think would Mr.

1737
01:17:08,345 --> 01:17:10,125
I don't want it would, would be lit with the light.

1738
01:17:10,475 --> 01:17:12,805
It's in a residential neighborhood. I'm just trying

1739
01:17:12,805 --> 01:17:14,045
to get the context of it.

1740
01:17:14,185 --> 01:17:16,365
Is this like a, a beam of light in your house

1741
01:17:16,385 --> 01:17:17,685
or is it just ambient light?

1742
01:17:19,555 --> 01:17:20,685
It's flashes in my house.

1743
01:17:20,735 --> 01:17:22,685
We'll be presenting pictures that show you

1744
01:17:22,685 --> 01:17:24,245
what the sign looks like from my bed.

1745
01:17:25,545 --> 01:17:28,025
I have that packet for the, for the, for the board.

1746
01:17:28,615 --> 01:17:32,555
Very good. Mr. Trip, did you have a question?

1747
01:17:34,195 --> 01:17:35,275
I think you gestured earlier.

1748
01:17:35,505 --> 01:17:39,995
Well, I was, I've heard the same sad story

1749
01:17:40,335 --> 01:17:44,435
and that might be a little contentious over and over again.

1750
01:17:45,225 --> 01:17:46,595
What I'm interested in

1751
01:17:47,095 --> 01:17:51,235
and is, you know, a a,

1752
01:17:51,355 --> 01:17:53,435
a brief succinct, you know,

1753
01:17:56,265 --> 01:18:00,275
listing of what is wrong with the sign.

1754
01:18:00,695 --> 01:18:03,515
And once you, I believe you told us that several times,

1755
01:18:04,055 --> 01:18:08,675
so I believe, I understand why you don't want to sign,

1756
01:18:09,855 --> 01:18:12,475
but we've seemed to got into the

1757
01:18:14,625 --> 01:18:16,035
back and forth, back and forth, back

1758
01:18:16,035 --> 01:18:19,555
and forth, so, you know, I understand why you think

1759
01:18:20,505 --> 01:18:21,515
this is a bad idea,

1760
01:18:22,455 --> 01:18:25,235
but I'd like to hear the rest of the people that are here

1761
01:18:25,235 --> 01:18:28,115
to testify, to find out what their thoughts are.

1762
01:18:30,585 --> 01:18:33,795
Fine. I bring up one other thing about the sporadic nature

1763
01:18:33,855 --> 01:18:38,075
of whatever the signs I point you to parole versus the town

1764
01:18:38,075 --> 01:18:40,395
of New Hampton, the zoning board.

1765
01:18:40,415 --> 01:18:43,235
By granting the variance without bird, meaning any

1766
01:18:43,235 --> 01:18:45,435
of the burdens for granting a variance could lead

1767
01:18:45,435 --> 01:18:47,635
to the installation of other commercial signs,

1768
01:18:47,635 --> 01:18:49,995
oversized commercial size, resented districts,

1769
01:18:50,215 --> 01:18:52,755
and that those opposed the variance are rightfully concerned

1770
01:18:52,895 --> 01:18:54,035
by the cumulative effect

1771
01:18:54,215 --> 01:18:56,435
of similar variances in the neighborhood

1772
01:18:58,165 --> 01:18:59,345
For all versus New Hampton.

1773
01:19:00,305 --> 01:19:03,385
I will hand in the, i I have the memo that I'll put in

1774
01:19:03,385 --> 01:19:05,505
with my packet that I'm giving you folks.

1775
01:19:06,485 --> 01:19:08,025
So it is, it's New Hampshire, it's

1776
01:19:08,645 --> 01:19:10,145
parole versus the town of New Hampton.

1777
01:19:20,485 --> 01:19:23,225
You wish to have handouts for us, Mr. Foley?

1778
01:19:23,825 --> 01:19:25,865
I do You have enough for everybody?

1779
01:19:27,025 --> 01:19:28,025
I do. Alright,

1780
01:19:28,565 --> 01:19:29,565
Ms.

1781
01:19:29,565 --> 01:19:30,665
Zan, would you receive those for me please?

1782
01:19:33,345 --> 01:19:36,585
I chair You wanna make a motion to accept testimony? Yes.

1783
01:19:36,925 --> 01:19:39,185
If you'd like the, the applicant,

1784
01:19:39,365 --> 01:19:40,825
the abutters don't have the same

1785
01:19:40,825 --> 01:19:42,025
restrictions. The applicant.

1786
01:19:42,415 --> 01:19:46,745
Okay. And then the last thing is about

1787
01:19:46,745 --> 01:19:48,185
complaints to the zoning board.

1788
01:19:48,645 --> 01:19:51,345
The ruling came down on the 31st of December.

1789
01:19:53,345 --> 01:19:57,505
I met with the code enforcement officer on the

1790
01:19:59,325 --> 01:20:02,985
28th of February in regards to the sign and the back lit

1791
01:20:03,005 --> 01:20:04,825
and the light and the complaints about

1792
01:20:04,825 --> 01:20:05,945
that and made that complaint.

1793
01:20:06,045 --> 01:20:07,765
Met with her in person.

1794
01:20:09,585 --> 01:20:12,115
Can I what Would you like? Thank you.

1795
01:20:12,465 --> 01:20:17,155
Wait, I, I want, I've written down the two things

1796
01:20:18,105 --> 01:20:20,875
that I believe you are concerned

1797
01:20:20,875 --> 01:20:23,435
about with this sign.

1798
01:20:24,455 --> 01:20:29,275
Number one, it's an outsized commercial sign in

1799
01:20:29,315 --> 01:20:30,635
a residential zone.

1800
01:20:30,935 --> 01:20:32,035
Is that correct? That's

1801
01:20:32,035 --> 01:20:33,035
Correct.

1802
01:20:33,945 --> 01:20:38,195
It's a back lit sign with a light on all night.

1803
01:20:38,455 --> 01:20:39,555
Is that correct? That's

1804
01:20:39,555 --> 01:20:40,555
Correct.

1805
01:20:40,555 --> 01:20:43,795
Is there anything else Now that we see? Yes.

1806
01:20:44,195 --> 01:20:46,555
I mean that's, that's the point now that it's there.

1807
01:20:46,665 --> 01:20:48,915
Okay, so those two things are what is wrong.

1808
01:20:50,975 --> 01:20:53,315
The fact is, is that now that the sign is there,

1809
01:20:54,245 --> 01:20:56,155
we're all very aware of what the sign now looks

1810
01:20:56,155 --> 01:20:57,435
like and it's

1811
01:20:57,895 --> 01:21:00,355
So the sign is offensive Sign's offensive? Yes.

1812
01:21:01,265 --> 01:21:03,075
Okay. That, I'll write that down.

1813
01:21:04,905 --> 01:21:07,275
When we just had this discussion last time,

1814
01:21:07,275 --> 01:21:09,555
we had the hearing before the sign was a hypothetical.

1815
01:21:10,225 --> 01:21:11,995
It's no longer hypothetical. Okay.

1816
01:21:12,925 --> 01:21:16,035
Could you elaborate on why the sign is offensive?

1817
01:21:18,265 --> 01:21:20,915
It's 50 square feet backlit sign.

1818
01:21:21,015 --> 01:21:23,915
So it's an outsized commercial sign? Yes.

1819
01:21:23,975 --> 01:21:25,475
That's why it's offensive. That

1820
01:21:26,125 --> 01:21:28,955
Interferes with my enjoyment of my property.

1821
01:21:33,575 --> 01:21:35,435
The sign interferes with your enjoyment.

1822
01:21:35,745 --> 01:21:39,875
It's a visual, it's a visual interference with my use

1823
01:21:39,915 --> 01:21:41,195
of my property and my house.

1824
01:21:43,305 --> 01:21:46,435
Your house is almost, it's over 400 feet away.

1825
01:21:47,135 --> 01:21:48,315
You have pictures in front of you

1826
01:21:48,315 --> 01:21:49,635
that shows you the picture of the sign

1827
01:21:49,705 --> 01:21:50,955
from the window of my bedroom.

1828
01:21:51,815 --> 01:21:53,635
But it is over 400 feet away

1829
01:21:54,295 --> 01:21:55,435
And it's clearly visible.

1830
01:21:56,175 --> 01:22:00,035
And anytime that this, that this board would like to do a,

1831
01:22:00,195 --> 01:22:01,515
a view, feel free.

1832
01:22:03,355 --> 01:22:04,875
I just note that earlier Mr.

1833
01:22:04,965 --> 01:22:07,275
Tripp asked for, for how far away the,

1834
01:22:07,615 --> 01:22:10,635
the sign was from the building and it was 300 feet.

1835
01:22:10,635 --> 01:22:13,875
And it was hard to, to, it was not hard to see.

1836
01:22:13,995 --> 01:22:15,475
I mean, you could see the building, right?

1837
01:22:16,175 --> 01:22:18,635
But understanding what's on the building

1838
01:22:18,775 --> 01:22:21,155
or what's at the building would be difficult.

1839
01:22:21,625 --> 01:22:24,635
Otherwise the church would've probably had Holy Cross

1840
01:22:24,895 --> 01:22:26,635
Church on the building.

1841
01:22:26,685 --> 01:22:28,675
Right. I mean, I'm just seeing

1842
01:22:28,675 --> 01:22:30,275
that parallel. You're, you're,

1843
01:22:30,515 --> 01:22:31,675
I don't understand what you're saying.

1844
01:22:32,025 --> 01:22:33,795
Well, I, that's probably convenient,

1845
01:22:33,895 --> 01:22:37,875
but I'm no, I'm, I'm looking at the comparison between Mr.

1846
01:22:38,015 --> 01:22:40,515
Trip's question about to the applicant about

1847
01:22:40,515 --> 01:22:43,795
how far away the building was from the road signs on their

1848
01:22:43,955 --> 01:22:46,715
building and the fact that you're,

1849
01:22:46,715 --> 01:22:48,595
you're a little further away from that and,

1850
01:22:48,775 --> 01:22:50,755
and it's affecting your quality of life.

1851
01:22:51,975 --> 01:22:54,795
And again, I I'd I would, I would ask for you

1852
01:22:54,815 --> 01:22:56,595
to articulate exactly what you're saying.

1853
01:22:56,945 --> 01:23:00,235
What does the sign being 300 feet from the, from the

1854
01:23:01,235 --> 01:23:03,995
building have to do with my house?

1855
01:23:04,305 --> 01:23:06,325
With my question to you, which is

1856
01:23:06,585 --> 01:23:09,045
how is it really affecting your quality of life?

1857
01:23:09,585 --> 01:23:12,805
You can see the sign from my house.

1858
01:23:13,945 --> 01:23:16,045
You can see the sign from inside my house

1859
01:23:16,045 --> 01:23:17,405
and you can shake your head all you want.

1860
01:23:17,465 --> 01:23:18,525
No, I'm just, that's, that's,

1861
01:23:18,905 --> 01:23:20,285
that's the simple, that's the simple fact.

1862
01:23:20,505 --> 01:23:22,685
And you've been provided with pictures of what that is

1863
01:23:22,685 --> 01:23:25,285
and you provided with more pictures with other people

1864
01:23:25,285 --> 01:23:26,485
that are coming up after me.

1865
01:23:27,385 --> 01:23:31,685
But the simple fact of the matter is the what is between,

1866
01:23:31,785 --> 01:23:34,525
you know, the distance between the, the sign and the road

1867
01:23:34,585 --> 01:23:38,045
and all that sort of stuff isn't important.

1868
01:23:38,705 --> 01:23:42,925
What's important is the applicant has not met any

1869
01:23:42,945 --> 01:23:45,685
of the burdens to be granted a variance.

1870
01:23:46,035 --> 01:23:48,245
It's your opinion. Alright, so

1871
01:23:48,385 --> 01:23:49,385
What's Up?

1872
01:23:49,385 --> 01:23:49,925
Well, I don't think we're there yet.

1873
01:23:49,925 --> 01:23:50,965
We haven't made a decision.

1874
01:23:51,115 --> 01:23:52,285
Well, I understand that,

1875
01:23:52,345 --> 01:23:54,485
but I I I find it hard to believe

1876
01:23:54,485 --> 01:23:58,805
that simply removing the message center changes any

1877
01:23:59,435 --> 01:24:00,435
Alright.

1878
01:24:00,435 --> 01:24:03,725
Of the hardship of the, the lack of hardship

1879
01:24:04,235 --> 01:24:07,725
that the court found in their December 31st ruling.

1880
01:24:08,355 --> 01:24:12,805
Okay, So I, can I go back to my list of things that

1881
01:24:15,305 --> 01:24:16,605
are a problem with the sign?

1882
01:24:17,475 --> 01:24:21,245
Okay, so we got it's outsized commercial sign

1883
01:24:21,245 --> 01:24:22,405
and a residential zone.

1884
01:24:23,915 --> 01:24:26,285
It's back lit. So the lights are on all the night

1885
01:24:26,625 --> 01:24:28,685
and you can see it.

1886
01:24:30,185 --> 01:24:34,725
And the sign is offensive in that it disturbs your enjoyment

1887
01:24:34,725 --> 01:24:37,645
of the property because you can see it from Hi,

1888
01:24:37,645 --> 01:24:39,335
your house. Alright,

1889
01:24:39,365 --> 01:24:40,415
From inside my house.

1890
01:24:40,565 --> 01:24:42,695
From inside your house. Alright. Is that it?

1891
01:24:45,705 --> 01:24:46,795
Sure. Thank you.

1892
01:24:47,035 --> 01:24:49,115
I don't, I don't, I'm really quite unsure

1893
01:24:49,115 --> 01:24:50,395
what point you're trying to drive at.

1894
01:24:50,935 --> 01:24:51,995
The fact of the matter is,

1895
01:24:53,395 --> 01:24:55,875
I, it's, it's, it's, no, no, I, it's a public news.

1896
01:24:55,875 --> 01:24:57,515
It's, it's fine. Yeah, that's fine.

1897
01:24:57,775 --> 01:24:59,915
So I, I probably heard what you wanna say

1898
01:25:00,655 --> 01:25:01,875
six times already tonight.

1899
01:25:03,185 --> 01:25:04,555
Hopefully it gets through to you.

1900
01:25:06,605 --> 01:25:07,675
Thank you. Thank You.

1901
01:25:18,335 --> 01:25:18,875
Oh boy.

1902
01:25:32,745 --> 01:25:33,805
You may want to try

1903
01:25:33,805 --> 01:25:36,445
and pull that a little closer for the board if you're trying

1904
01:25:36,445 --> 01:25:37,725
to show that to the board.

1905
01:25:39,705 --> 01:25:44,535
Thank you Ms. Z. Very good. Can everybody see that Mr.

1906
01:25:44,715 --> 01:25:48,535
Donlin? You all right there Mr. Sca? Sure. Yes. I apologize.

1907
01:25:48,715 --> 01:25:50,015
We actually need that for camera placement.

1908
01:25:50,015 --> 01:25:51,135
We're gonna bring it up on the screen for

1909
01:25:51,135 --> 01:25:52,135
You.

1910
01:25:52,135 --> 01:25:54,375
Perfect. Okay, nice. Thank you. Even better.

1911
01:25:55,155 --> 01:25:58,255
Andrew Roja, 1 64 Hampstead Road Dairy.

1912
01:26:03,805 --> 01:26:05,405
I have a prepared statement

1913
01:26:05,585 --> 01:26:09,485
and then I would like to speak to some of what we're heard,

1914
01:26:09,615 --> 01:26:11,285
we've heard tonight, if that's okay with you.

1915
01:26:11,595 --> 01:26:14,125
Sure. To just,

1916
01:26:14,155 --> 01:26:16,525
Just try and stay on point though. Okay.

1917
01:26:16,875 --> 01:26:19,365
I'll do my best. Keep Away from the mud slinging.

1918
01:26:19,875 --> 01:26:23,805
I'll do my best. Mr. Perkins and members of the board.

1919
01:26:24,305 --> 01:26:26,325
I'd like to frame my comments in light

1920
01:26:26,325 --> 01:26:28,565
of the recent New Hampshire Superior Court case,

1921
01:26:28,855 --> 01:26:32,605
Foley versus the zone zoning board of town of Derry,

1922
01:26:33,945 --> 01:26:36,445
the court reversed the prior variance outright.

1923
01:26:36,825 --> 01:26:39,605
It found that the applicant did not meet the statutory

1924
01:26:39,805 --> 01:26:43,325
requirement of unnecessary hardship under RSA

1925
01:26:43,385 --> 01:26:46,245
6 74 33, which requires

1926
01:26:46,245 --> 01:26:48,365
that hardship arise from special conditions

1927
01:26:48,365 --> 01:26:50,965
of the property itself, not the owner's business needs.

1928
01:26:51,745 --> 01:26:52,965
The applicant argued

1929
01:26:52,965 --> 01:26:55,245
that three factors created special conditions,

1930
01:26:56,065 --> 01:26:59,365
one distance from the road the building is set back,

1931
01:26:59,545 --> 01:27:01,565
but the court found no evidence that complying

1932
01:27:01,565 --> 01:27:03,285
with the ordinances sign size

1933
01:27:03,385 --> 01:27:06,605
or lighting limits imposed in unnecessary hardship.

1934
01:27:06,945 --> 01:27:09,965
The setback alone does not justify a larger

1935
01:27:10,035 --> 01:27:11,085
illuminated sign.

1936
01:27:11,945 --> 01:27:14,125
Two trees surrounding the property.

1937
01:27:14,635 --> 01:27:16,405
Many were planted by the applicant.

1938
01:27:16,625 --> 01:27:18,005
The court emphasized

1939
01:27:18,115 --> 01:27:21,485
that self-created conditions cannot establish hardship.

1940
01:27:21,485 --> 01:27:24,085
Simply having trees does not legally justify

1941
01:27:24,155 --> 01:27:25,525
exceeding sign limits.

1942
01:27:26,615 --> 01:27:28,085
Three nature of the business

1943
01:27:28,755 --> 01:27:31,965
operating a permitted commercial business does not create a

1944
01:27:31,965 --> 01:27:33,565
special condition of the land.

1945
01:27:34,025 --> 01:27:37,205
The court rejected the argument that the sign was necessary

1946
01:27:37,305 --> 01:27:38,485
for business viability.

1947
01:27:39,245 --> 01:27:41,205
Hardship must relate to the property itself,

1948
01:27:41,465 --> 01:27:43,045
not the owner's operational needs

1949
01:27:43,555 --> 01:27:46,165
because none of these factors constitute a

1950
01:27:46,165 --> 01:27:47,525
legally sufficient hardship.

1951
01:27:47,825 --> 01:27:48,845
The court concluded

1952
01:27:48,845 --> 01:27:50,685
that the variance should have been denied at

1953
01:27:50,685 --> 01:27:51,805
the town ZBA level.

1954
01:27:52,545 --> 01:27:55,725
The current application still seeks relief from the same

1955
01:27:55,725 --> 01:27:59,205
ordinance provisions regarding size, lighting and placement.

1956
01:27:59,935 --> 01:28:01,885
Those requirements remain in effect

1957
01:28:01,945 --> 01:28:03,805
and the legal standard has not changed.

1958
01:28:04,805 --> 01:28:06,765
Additionally, the sign has remained in place

1959
01:28:06,865 --> 01:28:09,045
for over three months after the court's ruling

1960
01:28:09,045 --> 01:28:10,085
that it is unlawful.

1961
01:28:10,885 --> 01:28:13,325
A pending application does not make a

1962
01:28:13,325 --> 01:28:14,445
non-compliant structure.

1963
01:28:14,785 --> 01:28:18,845
Lawful zoning enforcement depends on applicants following

1964
01:28:18,845 --> 01:28:20,525
the rules while seeking relief

1965
01:28:21,025 --> 01:28:23,765
and continuing to maintain a structure already found

1966
01:28:23,805 --> 01:28:26,885
unlawful raises concerns about future compliance

1967
01:28:27,485 --> 01:28:31,045
granting a variance is an exercise of discretion and trust.

1968
01:28:31,785 --> 01:28:34,765
It allows an exception to rules that apply to everyone else.

1969
01:28:35,385 --> 01:28:37,805
It is reasonable for the board to consider whether

1970
01:28:37,805 --> 01:28:40,125
that discretion is being sought in good faith

1971
01:28:40,385 --> 01:28:42,765
and with a willingness to comply with the outcome.

1972
01:28:43,305 --> 01:28:45,365
For all these reasons, I respectfully request

1973
01:28:45,365 --> 01:28:46,965
that the board deny the variance request.

1974
01:28:54,525 --> 01:28:59,125
I have also brought along a copy of a letter of opposition

1975
01:28:59,345 --> 01:29:03,285
to the electronic signage that was done in June

1976
01:29:03,285 --> 01:29:06,365
of 2025 for the prior variance.

1977
01:29:06,475 --> 01:29:09,725
This has 20 signatures, as you know, of people

1978
01:29:09,825 --> 01:29:12,885
who live within approximately a five minute walk

1979
01:29:12,905 --> 01:29:14,005
of where the sign is.

1980
01:29:14,505 --> 01:29:16,645
I'd like to submit that into

1981
01:29:16,645 --> 01:29:17,685
the official record. If I could.

1982
01:29:18,255 --> 01:29:21,125
We'll take it for the record. You have one copy, I assume

1983
01:29:21,285 --> 01:29:22,605
I I do only have one copy on,

1984
01:29:22,745 --> 01:29:24,805
So I want you'd like to confiscate that.

1985
01:29:24,805 --> 01:29:27,365
That would be fine. Thank you.

1986
01:29:27,915 --> 01:29:31,365
Understanding that that is to be clear, that is the petition

1987
01:29:31,435 --> 01:29:35,165
that was signed last summer not correct for this current.

1988
01:29:35,165 --> 01:29:36,245
Correct. Correct.

1989
01:29:36,665 --> 01:29:39,885
It it was signed for a,

1990
01:29:42,635 --> 01:29:45,285
yeah, for the previous application. So

1991
01:29:45,345 --> 01:29:47,845
Here's, here's the problem that we run into

1992
01:29:47,845 --> 01:29:49,845
with a petition in these matters.

1993
01:29:50,305 --> 01:29:52,485
And I realize we went through it last year,

1994
01:29:53,785 --> 01:29:58,125
but these folks need to be able

1995
01:29:58,185 --> 01:30:03,045
to emphasize how they're aggrieved by

1996
01:30:03,805 --> 01:30:05,085
a decision of this board.

1997
01:30:05,945 --> 01:30:08,765
And case law also will suggest that just

1998
01:30:08,765 --> 01:30:10,565
because they're a taxpayer doesn't mean

1999
01:30:10,565 --> 01:30:12,565
that they have standing in the matter, which is why

2000
01:30:13,915 --> 01:30:16,485
automatically direct abutters are the ones

2001
01:30:16,485 --> 01:30:17,605
that are noticed on this.

2002
01:30:17,705 --> 01:30:20,205
And it's not a it, it is a formal notice.

2003
01:30:20,345 --> 01:30:24,165
The clerk puts out it's advertised as per statute.

2004
01:30:25,025 --> 01:30:28,445
But without that understanding of how these folks,

2005
01:30:28,545 --> 01:30:31,445
and I think we asked Mr. Foley the same Mr.

2006
01:30:32,235 --> 01:30:34,805
Trip and myself trying to get

2007
01:30:35,735 --> 01:30:39,685
definitive on his explanations relative to the,

2008
01:30:39,785 --> 01:30:43,205
the criteria, how exactly those were going

2009
01:30:43,205 --> 01:30:45,565
to affect in those matters.

2010
01:30:45,565 --> 01:30:47,845
Right. And so we run into the same problem

2011
01:30:48,115 --> 01:30:51,565
with this petition is that we don't really know who they are

2012
01:30:51,945 --> 01:30:54,605
and we don't know where their surroundings are.

2013
01:30:55,065 --> 01:30:56,765
If they're within a quarter of a mile

2014
01:30:57,385 --> 01:30:59,525
and they never drive by this, they have to,

2015
01:30:59,635 --> 01:31:00,645
this is just an example.

2016
01:31:00,675 --> 01:31:02,445
They have to define how they're agg grieved

2017
01:31:02,445 --> 01:31:03,925
by the board's decision. You follow?

2018
01:31:04,485 --> 01:31:06,525
I do. Alright, I'll just set that aside

2019
01:31:06,545 --> 01:31:07,605
and, and let you proceed.

2020
01:31:07,775 --> 01:31:11,445
Thank you. A lot of

2021
01:31:11,515 --> 01:31:15,525
what Mr. Foley was talking about with regards to it being

2022
01:31:16,235 --> 01:31:20,765
offensive and a visual intrusion has to do

2023
01:31:20,955 --> 01:31:22,885
with how bright these signs are.

2024
01:31:23,345 --> 01:31:26,925
If you would look at the top left two images, you can see

2025
01:31:28,155 --> 01:31:31,645
both their currently approved building signs that

2026
01:31:32,435 --> 01:31:35,085
what we affectionately call the beacon tower at home.

2027
01:31:36,505 --> 01:31:38,565
The signs are extremely bright.

2028
01:31:40,125 --> 01:31:43,645
I took out my, my phone and just snapped two pictures.

2029
01:31:43,645 --> 01:31:47,445
Those have no playing around with settings, nothing.

2030
01:31:47,505 --> 01:31:51,445
That's just raw pictures. That's how bright these signs are.

2031
01:31:51,745 --> 01:31:55,125
And I don't know if it has

2032
01:31:58,325 --> 01:31:59,605
occurred to this board

2033
01:31:59,605 --> 01:32:02,485
that when Mr. Foley was talking about the visual intrusions,

2034
01:32:02,875 --> 01:32:05,085
he's talking about something that is that bright.

2035
01:32:06,615 --> 01:32:11,245
These are, I mean look at the ground

2036
01:32:11,255 --> 01:32:14,205
underneath the, the pylon sign.

2037
01:32:14,705 --> 01:32:16,605
It is like somebody has a spotlight

2038
01:32:16,685 --> 01:32:18,005
pointing down at the ground.

2039
01:32:19,035 --> 01:32:22,285
They are, in my opinion, ridiculous.

2040
01:32:23,955 --> 01:32:27,885
Furthermore, some nights. Is that actually the spotlight?

2041
01:32:28,865 --> 01:32:33,125
It it, yeah. Yeah. So furthermore, some nights we've noticed

2042
01:32:33,125 --> 01:32:35,205
that the signs have for some reason been off.

2043
01:32:35,225 --> 01:32:37,325
It seems somewhat intermittent

2044
01:32:37,435 --> 01:32:38,565
when they're on, when they're off.

2045
01:32:38,565 --> 01:32:39,725
Usually they're on all night.

2046
01:32:40,225 --> 01:32:44,765
But I did go one one night at 11:40 PM

2047
01:32:45,035 --> 01:32:48,525
this was March 23rd I believe that says,

2048
01:32:49,025 --> 01:32:51,245
and they just have spotlights pointing into the air

2049
01:32:51,245 --> 01:32:52,285
instead of the signs.

2050
01:32:53,335 --> 01:32:54,485
Again, you know,

2051
01:32:54,645 --> 01:32:57,205
talking about visual intrusions from this business

2052
01:32:57,465 --> 01:33:02,325
and talking about, you know, what I referenced at the end

2053
01:33:02,325 --> 01:33:05,645
of my speech, which is, you know, discretion and trust and,

2054
01:33:05,825 --> 01:33:07,165
and wondering, you know,

2055
01:33:09,575 --> 01:33:11,285
about frankly Mr.

2056
01:33:11,875 --> 01:33:15,685
KO's ability to follow the rules that have been laid down

2057
01:33:15,705 --> 01:33:17,925
for him already before they were struck down.

2058
01:33:19,585 --> 01:33:21,445
You know, thi this is what we've been dealing with

2059
01:33:21,445 --> 01:33:24,965
and this is why to a great extent we're

2060
01:33:24,965 --> 01:33:26,765
so upset about all of this at this point.

2061
01:33:29,265 --> 01:33:32,485
On the right hand quadrant of the sign he, sorry,

2062
01:33:32,485 --> 01:33:35,805
of my display here you'll see two photos,

2063
01:33:36,065 --> 01:33:39,085
one just zoomed in, one zoomed out of their current sign,

2064
01:33:39,135 --> 01:33:40,685
which again I would like

2065
01:33:40,685 --> 01:33:43,925
to point out is they're currently unlawfully,

2066
01:33:44,065 --> 01:33:46,485
it has been unlawful since the beginning of this year,

2067
01:33:46,625 --> 01:33:47,685
the first day of this year.

2068
01:33:47,685 --> 01:33:49,125
It has been unlawful since then.

2069
01:33:51,755 --> 01:33:53,845
That is what it currently looks like without their

2070
01:33:53,845 --> 01:33:55,085
electronic messaging center.

2071
01:33:55,155 --> 01:33:57,045
This is what they're applying for, A variance for.

2072
01:33:57,065 --> 01:33:59,085
It is a 50 square foot sign.

2073
01:34:00,845 --> 01:34:02,485
Interestingly, during our last

2074
01:34:03,365 --> 01:34:06,765
sessions here at the ZBA talking about these signs,

2075
01:34:07,835 --> 01:34:11,245
everybody at the ZBA seemed to agree

2076
01:34:11,245 --> 01:34:15,165
that 24 square feet was the legal limit without

2077
01:34:15,165 --> 01:34:16,285
having to have a variance.

2078
01:34:16,945 --> 01:34:19,885
I'm not sure why that conversation appears

2079
01:34:19,905 --> 01:34:21,125
to have changed today,

2080
01:34:22,185 --> 01:34:23,405
but that was what we talked about

2081
01:34:23,405 --> 01:34:25,765
that entire time was 24 square feet.

2082
01:34:26,185 --> 01:34:30,805
And with that in mind, the bottom two images, I

2083
01:34:31,515 --> 01:34:34,205
went ahead and I actually created renders of

2084
01:34:34,205 --> 01:34:38,485
what his sign could look like following within the

2085
01:34:39,135 --> 01:34:40,925
legal ordinance to my understanding

2086
01:34:40,945 --> 01:34:42,965
of 24 square feet and unlit.

2087
01:34:43,145 --> 01:34:45,445
And frankly, I think that the signs are beautiful.

2088
01:34:46,565 --> 01:34:48,685
I know that's my opinion 'cause I made the renders.

2089
01:34:48,705 --> 01:34:52,645
But you know, frankly, those do a very,

2090
01:34:52,995 --> 01:34:56,205
very fantastic job in my opinion of conveying

2091
01:34:56,205 --> 01:34:57,565
what his business is

2092
01:34:58,105 --> 01:35:00,885
and letting people who are driving by these signs,

2093
01:35:00,895 --> 01:35:04,405
which are a mere 10 feet away from the road on a

2094
01:35:04,435 --> 01:35:05,565
very open lot.

2095
01:35:05,665 --> 01:35:07,685
He has a a, a good amount

2096
01:35:07,705 --> 01:35:09,645
of road frontage that is open there.

2097
01:35:11,185 --> 01:35:14,085
You know, in my opinion, those do a great job of conveying

2098
01:35:14,115 --> 01:35:15,405
what his business is.

2099
01:35:15,665 --> 01:35:18,125
And we don't, again, my opinion,

2100
01:35:18,475 --> 01:35:21,925
need this giant 50 square foot sign

2101
01:35:21,995 --> 01:35:23,685
that is very out of character.

2102
01:35:24,375 --> 01:35:27,885
Aside from the fact that at night it is lit up like the sun

2103
01:35:30,725 --> 01:35:35,225
Is the, on the upper left corner, is that a,

2104
01:35:35,495 --> 01:35:37,345
what kind of light is that? Do you know?

2105
01:35:38,215 --> 01:35:41,025
It's, Is that just a spotlight? I I know,

2106
01:35:41,275 --> 01:35:42,275
Sorry.

2107
01:35:42,275 --> 01:35:42,945
The, the very upper left. Yep.

2108
01:35:43,605 --> 01:35:45,785
The, that No, that's his, that's his sign.

2109
01:35:46,085 --> 01:35:48,585
That's his building sign that says NEA.

2110
01:35:49,175 --> 01:35:52,545
Well we, I don't think we put any conditions relative

2111
01:35:52,545 --> 01:35:55,025
to the building signs for lighting.

2112
01:35:55,385 --> 01:35:56,745
I don't know that we did or we didn't.

2113
01:35:57,175 --> 01:35:58,265
Yeah, you did. You asked

2114
01:35:58,265 --> 01:36:01,105
that they follow the town's general ordinance, which is

2115
01:36:01,525 --> 01:36:05,345
for essentially just over ambient at any given time. Okay.

2116
01:36:05,565 --> 01:36:07,025
It does look like there may be a spotlight on the

2117
01:36:07,025 --> 01:36:08,265
roof photo.

2118
01:36:09,135 --> 01:36:12,385
Well I'm thinking it's the airport, but I don't

2119
01:36:12,385 --> 01:36:13,385
Know.

2120
01:36:13,385 --> 01:36:14,065
No, no, no. The, the,

2121
01:36:14,125 --> 01:36:17,945
the bottom right image does show those are actual lights

2122
01:36:17,975 --> 01:36:19,425
mounted on his roof. Bottom

2123
01:36:19,425 --> 01:36:20,025
Left. Sorry,

2124
01:36:20,385 --> 01:36:21,385
Sorry.

2125
01:36:21,385 --> 01:36:22,665
Bottom left. Yeah, those are, those are on his roof.

2126
01:36:23,925 --> 01:36:24,985
Are those Christmas lights?

2127
01:36:25,745 --> 01:36:27,905
I don't know what kind of light other than

2128
01:36:27,905 --> 01:36:28,945
that They're mounted on his roof.

2129
01:36:29,125 --> 01:36:32,465
You can actually see them if you look just under what used

2130
01:36:32,465 --> 01:36:34,305
to be the steeple tower, you can see the

2131
01:36:34,355 --> 01:36:35,905
black blob right there.

2132
01:36:35,975 --> 01:36:38,945
That is the light itself for one of those. Got

2133
01:36:38,945 --> 01:36:39,945
It.

2134
01:36:39,945 --> 01:36:41,145
Okay. I see it. Yep. Thank you Mr. Corbert.

2135
01:36:41,245 --> 01:36:43,345
Oh, okay. I have a question for you. So

2136
01:36:43,345 --> 01:36:44,345
Sorry Mr.

2137
01:36:44,345 --> 01:36:44,625
Trip. Can I ask one question

2138
01:36:44,625 --> 01:36:45,465
about the spotlight before you go?

2139
01:36:45,465 --> 01:36:46,665
Sure. Mr.

2140
01:36:46,795 --> 01:36:49,665
Would it be, I'm not familiar with the spotlight portion.

2141
01:36:49,725 --> 01:36:52,345
Do you rec recollect seeing it there when the,

2142
01:36:52,345 --> 01:36:54,025
like did it used to light up the steeple?

2143
01:36:54,175 --> 01:36:56,745
Were they perhaps existing it? Yeah,

2144
01:36:56,785 --> 01:36:58,065
I believe that it did back then.

2145
01:36:58,095 --> 01:37:00,105
Yeah. Okay. Not that it necessarily right now.

2146
01:37:00,205 --> 01:37:01,625
It serves no purpose in the middle

2147
01:37:01,625 --> 01:37:02,705
of the night though. Nope.

2148
01:37:02,705 --> 01:37:04,345
Alright. Don't disagree with that. Yeah.

2149
01:37:05,725 --> 01:37:08,305
If I may just stand up and I have a question for you.

2150
01:37:08,605 --> 01:37:09,605
Oh, go right ahead.

2151
01:37:10,925 --> 01:37:15,705
The, the middle photo on the top,

2152
01:37:16,525 --> 01:37:17,705
that's your rendering?

2153
01:37:19,045 --> 01:37:22,065
No, mid the, the bottom right two are my renders.

2154
01:37:23,805 --> 01:37:25,905
And those are 24 square

2155
01:37:25,945 --> 01:37:26,945
Feet?

2156
01:37:26,945 --> 01:37:28,025
Those are 24 square feet. Those, yes.

2157
01:37:28,975 --> 01:37:31,545
Look at my screen. Oh, You

2158
01:37:31,545 --> 01:37:32,545
Don't have those?

2159
01:37:32,545 --> 01:37:34,545
As, as unlit signs in our neighborhood,

2160
01:37:34,565 --> 01:37:38,905
in my opinion would be beautiful as simple unlit signs.

2161
01:37:39,245 --> 01:37:43,865
And to that point, we discussed a few different signs

2162
01:37:45,125 --> 01:37:47,465
during your discussion with Mr. Foley.

2163
01:37:47,805 --> 01:37:50,665
And I'd like to illustrate those for this board. If I may.

2164
01:37:51,585 --> 01:37:55,500
I actually have a, a portable projector, so if you,

2165
01:37:55,500 --> 01:37:57,205
if you don't mind, I'm gonna show it

2166
01:37:57,205 --> 01:37:58,245
right on the wall right there.

2167
01:37:58,855 --> 01:38:00,005
These are signs. Ah,

2168
01:38:00,965 --> 01:38:01,965
I think, is That okay?

2169
01:38:01,965 --> 01:38:03,005
It's allowed. I think you may need to check

2170
01:38:03,035 --> 01:38:04,325
with Mr to make

2171
01:38:04,325 --> 01:38:05,325
Sure.

2172
01:38:05,325 --> 01:38:07,245
I'm not sure if we can capture it. We could, we could try.

2173
01:38:07,795 --> 01:38:12,445
Okay. It's bright enough.

2174
01:38:13,355 --> 01:38:16,685
This is the sign that was referenced right down the road.

2175
01:38:16,685 --> 01:38:20,725
This is the horse, the horse business.

2176
01:38:21,385 --> 01:38:25,725
It is again, less than 24 square feet. It is unlit.

2177
01:38:26,105 --> 01:38:29,885
Mr. Chair, before, before we go too much, we, we,

2178
01:38:29,885 --> 01:38:32,845
we can't hear the gentleman and we can't see can you

2179
01:38:32,845 --> 01:38:36,205
Use the microphone as you, We, we also have no way

2180
01:38:36,205 --> 01:38:37,965
to capture that projection.

2181
01:38:38,115 --> 01:38:39,565
Okay. If there's a file,

2182
01:38:39,705 --> 01:38:42,245
we could get it into our computer system here. Yeah. Got

2183
01:38:42,245 --> 01:38:43,245
It.

2184
01:38:43,245 --> 01:38:45,925
So this is at that horse business right down the road.

2185
01:38:46,385 --> 01:38:48,445
And it was referenced earlier in this meeting.

2186
01:38:49,555 --> 01:38:50,605
It's a simple sign.

2187
01:38:50,795 --> 01:38:53,045
It's definitely less than 24 square feet.

2188
01:38:53,105 --> 01:38:56,925
It is unlit, it fits the character of our neighborhood.

2189
01:38:58,845 --> 01:39:01,045
Additionally, we talked about how

2190
01:39:01,185 --> 01:39:04,085
for some reason this is now considered to be a school.

2191
01:39:04,555 --> 01:39:07,045
This is right in our back neighborhood.

2192
01:39:07,715 --> 01:39:11,525
This is the sign for East Derry Memorial Elementary School.

2193
01:39:12,095 --> 01:39:14,125
Again, less than 24 square feet,

2194
01:39:14,975 --> 01:39:17,765
unlit reasonable fits in our neighborhood.

2195
01:39:17,925 --> 01:39:19,485
I mean, this is a carved wooden sign.

2196
01:39:19,515 --> 01:39:21,245
It's beautiful for East Derry. Right.

2197
01:39:21,275 --> 01:39:23,165
Okay. So I'm gonna hold you up there, Mr. Roche.

2198
01:39:23,245 --> 01:39:25,085
'cause we have a tech technical problem.

2199
01:39:26,185 --> 01:39:28,605
Images shown on the wall. Mr.

2200
01:39:28,605 --> 01:39:30,765
Preventers indicate you can't pick it up. Yeah,

2201
01:39:30,765 --> 01:39:31,765
That's right.

2202
01:39:31,765 --> 01:39:32,685
Mr. Chair, if you've got some files,

2203
01:39:32,745 --> 01:39:33,885
we could bring them into the system

2204
01:39:33,885 --> 01:39:35,085
and bring 'em up onto the screen.

2205
01:39:35,315 --> 01:39:36,845
Sure. We're just not able to capture,

2206
01:39:36,965 --> 01:39:37,965
I email you right now.

2207
01:39:37,965 --> 01:39:40,045
Just in the interest of the board, is there any board member

2208
01:39:40,045 --> 01:39:41,165
that did not see that?

2209
01:39:42,155 --> 01:39:43,445
Everybody saw it. Okay.

2210
01:39:43,445 --> 01:39:45,005
Okay. And I have one more photo.

2211
01:39:45,585 --> 01:39:49,845
We, you also talked earlier about the

2212
01:39:50,905 --> 01:39:52,045
old, just gimme one second.

2213
01:39:52,265 --> 01:39:54,805
The old church sign being 30 feet long,

2214
01:39:55,305 --> 01:39:58,245
it definitively was not, this is the old church sign.

2215
01:39:58,865 --> 01:40:03,245
It was maybe 10 feet long and that's being generous.

2216
01:40:03,865 --> 01:40:06,125
It was also not four feet off the ground.

2217
01:40:06,225 --> 01:40:08,125
It was maybe two feet off the ground.

2218
01:40:08,555 --> 01:40:11,365
This was again, a small reasonable sign

2219
01:40:11,365 --> 01:40:12,565
that fits in our neighborhood.

2220
01:40:12,905 --> 01:40:17,845
It was a wooden sign that fits in East DER's atmosphere.

2221
01:40:18,395 --> 01:40:19,925
This is what we're arguing for

2222
01:40:20,465 --> 01:40:24,405
is every other sign in our vicinity has a,

2223
01:40:24,925 --> 01:40:26,565
a feel it has a motif.

2224
01:40:26,875 --> 01:40:30,885
It's reasonable. These signs that

2225
01:40:33,005 --> 01:40:34,185
are being asked for

2226
01:40:34,185 --> 01:40:35,185
In this Mr.

2227
01:40:35,185 --> 01:40:36,465
Chair, if we're gonna continue with the projector, I,

2228
01:40:36,625 --> 01:40:38,505
I would suggest perhaps we take a minute

2229
01:40:38,525 --> 01:40:42,105
and reorient, we do have a white space up on the board,

2230
01:40:42,205 --> 01:40:43,905
but the, we're just not able to capture this

2231
01:40:43,925 --> 01:40:46,905
and we're not picking up the, the voice of the gentleman.

2232
01:40:47,165 --> 01:40:50,185
Is that it for you Mr. Roge on that with your phone?

2233
01:40:50,445 --> 01:40:52,185
It, yeah, it is. I I I think

2234
01:40:52,185 --> 01:40:55,965
that I've hopefully made my point that, you know,

2235
01:40:57,065 --> 01:41:00,765
simply put, there are signs that we've talked about

2236
01:41:01,035 --> 01:41:04,725
that are in our neighborhood that are reasonable

2237
01:41:04,745 --> 01:41:07,925
for our neighborhood and the sign that's being requested.

2238
01:41:08,385 --> 01:41:11,325
And when I say requested, it's already there illegally,

2239
01:41:11,625 --> 01:41:13,325
but the sign that is being requested

2240
01:41:14,035 --> 01:41:15,245
does not fit in with them.

2241
01:41:15,425 --> 01:41:16,485
It is not one of them.

2242
01:41:17,075 --> 01:41:19,525
Well, understanding that, you know, hold your thought Mr.

2243
01:41:19,575 --> 01:41:22,965
Tripp is that the sign was put in under the authorization

2244
01:41:22,985 --> 01:41:26,165
of the board and it did have a permit to a contrary to

2245
01:41:26,165 --> 01:41:29,205
what we have heard already spoken.

2246
01:41:30,425 --> 01:41:32,525
Let me just cover technically Mr.

2247
01:41:32,525 --> 01:41:35,645
Venture, other these images that he's shown.

2248
01:41:35,745 --> 01:41:37,165
Do you feel that we need

2249
01:41:37,165 --> 01:41:39,525
to have those download? Do you want I'll give

2250
01:41:39,525 --> 01:41:41,165
That to your discretion if you would want

2251
01:41:41,165 --> 01:41:42,925
to have them clearly on, on the record,

2252
01:41:43,025 --> 01:41:44,845
on the video recording. Alright. I'm

2253
01:41:44,845 --> 01:41:45,885
Gonna defer to the board.

2254
01:41:46,115 --> 01:41:48,285
Held your thought. Mr. Trip. Mr. Corbett. I

2255
01:41:48,365 --> 01:41:51,645
I think just for the dot i's cross t's I think,

2256
01:41:52,445 --> 01:41:55,325
I think the board is all very familiar with the signs Mr.

2257
01:41:55,665 --> 01:41:59,565
Shared. However, I think we should make a motion to accept

2258
01:42:00,265 --> 01:42:04,045
his email of the photos in for as official record.

2259
01:42:04,105 --> 01:42:05,565
As official record. Thank you Mr. Rabba.

2260
01:42:06,505 --> 01:42:09,565
Mrs. Owen. To Mrs. Owen, you, you would email Yes

2261
01:42:09,805 --> 01:42:10,805
To Mrs.

2262
01:42:10,805 --> 01:42:12,965
Do you have Mrs. Ms Owen's email not being provided?

2263
01:42:13,165 --> 01:42:14,405
I don't, I have it loaded here.

2264
01:42:14,425 --> 01:42:16,405
I'm happy to just hand her my phone to email it to her.

2265
01:42:16,465 --> 01:42:18,485
Oh, perfect. And then we'll file that into the record.

2266
01:42:19,395 --> 01:42:21,125
Richard, we'll go to you next.

2267
01:42:21,465 --> 01:42:24,605
All right, Do need

2268
01:42:24,885 --> 01:42:25,885
Anything?

2269
01:42:25,885 --> 01:42:26,925
Mr. Trip has question.

2270
01:42:27,225 --> 01:42:28,645
Do you need a second memo motion? So Mr. Rose?

2271
01:42:29,065 --> 01:42:32,885
Yes, sir. Hold on. Mr. Trip. Mr. Corbett made a motion.

2272
01:42:33,175 --> 01:42:35,165
Thank you. Mr. Corbett. Could I have a second please?

2273
01:42:35,545 --> 01:42:37,885
Second. Thank you Mr. Trip. All in favor of Mr.

2274
01:42:37,915 --> 01:42:40,005
Corbett's motion on the download?

2275
01:42:40,405 --> 01:42:42,125
Yes. The, the acceptance of the photos. All

2276
01:42:42,385 --> 01:42:44,365
All in favor of those say aye.

2277
01:42:44,625 --> 01:42:47,925
Aye. Any opposed? Hearing none. Thank you Mr. Tripp.

2278
01:42:48,345 --> 01:42:53,125
All right. Like I did with Mr. Foley, I I'm trying

2279
01:42:53,125 --> 01:42:56,965
to ascertain what exactly is,

2280
01:42:57,105 --> 01:42:58,205
is wrong with the signs.

2281
01:42:58,465 --> 01:43:02,445
And I believe I already understand from your testimony,

2282
01:43:02,865 --> 01:43:07,245
but I'd like to, you know, repeat it back to you so

2283
01:43:07,245 --> 01:43:09,805
that I can be certain that that's what the,

2284
01:43:11,425 --> 01:43:13,045
what's the facts of the matter.

2285
01:43:13,635 --> 01:43:18,245
Alright. You've, you've,

2286
01:43:18,245 --> 01:43:20,845
you've shown the signs that you rendered

2287
01:43:21,785 --> 01:43:25,685
and your, your interest is in that

2288
01:43:28,105 --> 01:43:30,245
the signs, if there were to be signs,

2289
01:43:31,105 --> 01:43:33,765
and you have indicated that if the signs were

2290
01:43:34,905 --> 01:43:38,045
to your specifications, that you would be in favor of that

2291
01:43:39,185 --> 01:43:41,365
To, to the town's specification

2292
01:43:41,365 --> 01:43:43,245
of 24 square feet and unlit.

2293
01:43:43,305 --> 01:43:45,005
Not my specifications. Okay.

2294
01:43:45,005 --> 01:43:47,005
Yeah. So, so if,

2295
01:43:49,185 --> 01:43:50,205
and you have two signs.

2296
01:43:51,445 --> 01:43:53,565
I, I I just made two renders. Just, okay.

2297
01:43:53,565 --> 01:43:56,325
Yeah. So, so two signs would be acceptable.

2298
01:43:57,425 --> 01:44:01,365
No, those, those are two signs in the same exact location.

2299
01:44:01,745 --> 01:44:04,045
Two different options, two different visuals,

2300
01:44:04,505 --> 01:44:06,525
but one sign in place.

2301
01:44:06,985 --> 01:44:10,165
Oh, so 20, you would, you would limit the signage to

2302
01:44:11,105 --> 01:44:15,405
1 24 foot square or 2024 cubic.

2303
01:44:16,085 --> 01:44:17,965
Again, my my understanding is the

2304
01:44:17,965 --> 01:44:19,325
ordinance limits it. Yes.

2305
01:44:19,515 --> 01:44:24,005
Alright, so it would be a single sign

2306
01:44:25,305 --> 01:44:25,525
at

2307
01:44:25,905 --> 01:44:30,325
24 square feet.

2308
01:44:32,125 --> 01:44:35,325
I believe so. I don't know if the ordinance allows

2309
01:44:35,425 --> 01:44:37,005
for two 12 square foot signs

2310
01:44:37,025 --> 01:44:39,605
or only 1 24 square foot, but yes.

2311
01:44:39,945 --> 01:44:42,285
No. Well, let's, let's determine that

2312
01:44:42,985 --> 01:44:46,765
1 24 foot square would be acceptable first.

2313
01:44:47,135 --> 01:44:49,645
Right. And then we can stretch the Sure.

2314
01:44:51,105 --> 01:44:54,405
To where possibly, you know,

2315
01:44:54,925 --> 01:44:56,965
a a 24 foot square

2316
01:45:00,395 --> 01:45:02,765
sign unlit is acceptable.

2317
01:45:03,135 --> 01:45:04,205
Right. You know,

2318
01:45:04,345 --> 01:45:07,645
and as he has

2319
01:45:08,235 --> 01:45:11,005
essentially two businesses there, it would be,

2320
01:45:12,085 --> 01:45:14,605
I believe justified that there would be two signs.

2321
01:45:15,685 --> 01:45:17,125
I disagree wholeheartedly.

2322
01:45:17,125 --> 01:45:19,925
It goes to the property, not the businesses.

2323
01:45:21,115 --> 01:45:23,365
Just for, for argument's sake, if I may.

2324
01:45:23,465 --> 01:45:25,605
So you, you're saying no. Well if, if,

2325
01:45:25,605 --> 01:45:27,645
if I may's I can make That's okay.

2326
01:45:27,705 --> 01:45:29,765
10 LLCs at my property

2327
01:45:30,225 --> 01:45:33,365
and then I could just put up 10 signs. Alright.

2328
01:45:33,625 --> 01:45:34,645
24 said feet.

2329
01:45:34,645 --> 01:45:37,165
Well, I'm just trying to understand what it is that

2330
01:45:37,755 --> 01:45:40,805
your desires are and I understand one sign

2331
01:45:42,025 --> 01:45:44,365
so we don't have to go into, you know, half hour

2332
01:45:44,925 --> 01:45:46,245
diatribe as to why.

2333
01:45:46,795 --> 01:45:50,205
Yeah. A a again, though, I want to clarify my desire is

2334
01:45:50,205 --> 01:45:52,325
that it follows the ordinance.

2335
01:45:53,135 --> 01:45:56,845
Right? Well, as Chairman Perkins is already,

2336
01:45:57,945 --> 01:46:00,125
you know, told you, you know,

2337
01:46:00,125 --> 01:46:03,645
the reason we sit here is we have to determine whether,

2338
01:46:04,305 --> 01:46:08,325
you know, there is any leeway in the ordinances

2339
01:46:08,665 --> 01:46:12,205
for the app appellant, I mean the applicant to,

2340
01:46:13,065 --> 01:46:15,525
to make him his needs, Matt too.

2341
01:46:15,825 --> 01:46:18,325
So, you know, like I said, this is a compromise

2342
01:46:18,945 --> 01:46:22,645
and I'm just trying to figure out what your desires are.

2343
01:46:23,125 --> 01:46:24,965
'cause I'm pretty sure I already know what the,

2344
01:46:25,225 --> 01:46:28,445
the applicant's desires are, you know, so,

2345
01:46:28,785 --> 01:46:31,485
and I, I believe I understand it now. Yes, thank you. Yes.

2346
01:46:31,875 --> 01:46:36,205
Yeah. My desire specifically would be a 24 square foot

2347
01:46:36,385 --> 01:46:40,005
or under of signage 10 feet

2348
01:46:40,005 --> 01:46:41,885
or more from the road and unlit.

2349
01:46:43,975 --> 01:46:45,715
Mr. Rj, if I can just piggyback off Mr.

2350
01:46:45,715 --> 01:46:48,755
Trips, first one on your renderings, is that the same size,

2351
01:46:49,195 --> 01:46:52,765
just further the image further away to depict?

2352
01:46:52,785 --> 01:46:55,205
Or is the one on the left smaller than

2353
01:46:55,305 --> 01:46:56,305
20?

2354
01:46:56,305 --> 01:46:56,525
Sorry, are you referring to the bottom

2355
01:46:56,665 --> 01:46:57,485
bottom, the bottom right.

2356
01:46:57,485 --> 01:47:01,165
My render, sorry. Yes. It, so, so I took a zoomed in

2357
01:47:01,165 --> 01:47:02,725
and a zoomed out of his real sign.

2358
01:47:02,725 --> 01:47:05,445
Yep. And then I provided you a render of the exact same,

2359
01:47:05,515 --> 01:47:07,525
just zoomed in, zoomed out before looked like, thank you.

2360
01:47:08,945 --> 01:47:10,205
Can I say something, Mr. Chair?

2361
01:47:10,705 --> 01:47:12,045
Yes sir. Mr. Lusca.

2362
01:47:12,905 --> 01:47:17,765
So I see a lot throughout everything that's been said

2363
01:47:17,865 --> 01:47:21,165
and you know, one of the biggest things I feel like

2364
01:47:21,165 --> 01:47:23,525
that you guys have said that it's a big issue is the, the,

2365
01:47:23,545 --> 01:47:25,285
the light and how it illuminates

2366
01:47:27,155 --> 01:47:31,565
when there was a 360 burial of the, what the property,

2367
01:47:32,345 --> 01:47:35,525
it was hard to see any other properties in the vicinity.

2368
01:47:35,625 --> 01:47:38,365
Now I know that once there's 400 feet away,

2369
01:47:40,945 --> 01:47:45,445
I'm trying to think, I mean if we, if it were to prevail

2370
01:47:45,445 --> 01:47:49,005
or whatever, if the light was turned off at a set time,

2371
01:47:49,035 --> 01:47:50,805
like, you know, you see in movies where the,

2372
01:47:50,865 --> 01:47:52,525
the basketball court automatically at

2373
01:47:52,525 --> 01:47:53,565
nine o'clock it just shuts off.

2374
01:47:54,505 --> 01:47:56,045
I'm trying to think of ways that it could work.

2375
01:47:56,145 --> 01:47:57,885
And another thing that came

2376
01:47:57,885 --> 01:48:00,445
to my mind was have you ever been driving down the road

2377
01:48:00,505 --> 01:48:02,005
and then like you're listening to music

2378
01:48:02,025 --> 01:48:03,565
but you can't find where you're trying to go,

2379
01:48:03,565 --> 01:48:05,005
but you accidentally turn down the music

2380
01:48:05,065 --> 01:48:06,085
so you think you can see better?

2381
01:48:06,355 --> 01:48:08,205
Like, or am I just crazy?

2382
01:48:10,865 --> 01:48:15,045
I'm trying to, like if it's the size of the, I dunno this,

2383
01:48:15,185 --> 01:48:16,285
I'm squinting now.

2384
01:48:16,305 --> 01:48:18,885
I'm just curious about the safety of cars

2385
01:48:18,885 --> 01:48:20,285
that aren't familiar with the area

2386
01:48:22,065 --> 01:48:23,725
and they're not really knowing where they're going

2387
01:48:23,725 --> 01:48:25,525
and they're squinting and they're slowing down.

2388
01:48:28,505 --> 01:48:30,805
So let me, let me help you out Ms. Luca.

2389
01:48:31,495 --> 01:48:34,885
These, what you're commenting on is, part of

2390
01:48:34,885 --> 01:48:36,965
what we're hearing is in a dispute now is

2391
01:48:36,965 --> 01:48:39,125
that the lights appear to be on

2392
01:48:39,415 --> 01:48:43,605
after what we had agreed on the former order.

2393
01:48:44,985 --> 01:48:48,845
And so that's, your questions are relevant.

2394
01:48:48,925 --> 01:48:51,165
I just want to help you out here with

2395
01:48:51,255 --> 01:48:52,365
where you might be going.

2396
01:48:52,465 --> 01:48:53,965
And that was the, the conditions

2397
01:48:53,965 --> 01:48:55,325
that the board had set prior.

2398
01:48:56,005 --> 01:48:58,085
We'll have an opportunity for the applicant

2399
01:48:58,085 --> 01:48:59,525
to come back up and address that.

2400
01:49:01,225 --> 01:49:05,045
And so that condition was originally established,

2401
01:49:05,105 --> 01:49:07,605
but is still objected to even

2402
01:49:07,635 --> 01:49:09,925
with the light coming off at a certain times.

2403
01:49:11,745 --> 01:49:13,965
But proceed with any questions if you have them.

2404
01:49:15,165 --> 01:49:18,525
I, I don't really necessarily have a question right now,

2405
01:49:18,625 --> 01:49:20,805
so I'm trying to think. I'm sorry. No,

2406
01:49:20,835 --> 01:49:21,835
It's all right.

2407
01:49:21,835 --> 01:49:25,285
If I can, if I can speak a little bit to the, the idea

2408
01:49:25,285 --> 01:49:27,205
of it turning off at a certain time.

2409
01:49:28,505 --> 01:49:32,205
We have been down this road with our last ZBA approval

2410
01:49:32,205 --> 01:49:35,845
that you guys did where you did require him to do this.

2411
01:49:36,625 --> 01:49:37,845
He has failed to do it.

2412
01:49:38,165 --> 01:49:40,045
I have pictures up here showing you

2413
01:49:40,355 --> 01:49:42,205
that he has just ignored you.

2414
01:49:43,985 --> 01:49:48,125
You know, Ms. Owen here, I spoke to her in person

2415
01:49:49,945 --> 01:49:53,565
and I made a complaint about the lights being on,

2416
01:49:53,655 --> 01:49:54,925
first of all, all night.

2417
01:49:55,305 --> 01:49:58,245
And second of all, clearly far too bright for

2418
01:49:58,245 --> 01:50:01,525
what the ordinance allows, where the ordinance allows,

2419
01:50:02,215 --> 01:50:05,925
again, just over ambient is essentially what the,

2420
01:50:06,145 --> 01:50:07,485
the numbers boil down to.

2421
01:50:08,105 --> 01:50:12,005
And the responses that I got from her were sympathetic.

2422
01:50:12,205 --> 01:50:13,965
I, I don't want to take away from you at all.

2423
01:50:14,875 --> 01:50:19,565
However, she also said that one, it's hard for her to

2424
01:50:21,035 --> 01:50:23,645
enforce the ordinance with, with regards to this

2425
01:50:23,885 --> 01:50:25,725
because she doesn't work at night.

2426
01:50:26,345 --> 01:50:30,125
And two, the town doesn't even own the equipment

2427
01:50:30,505 --> 01:50:32,645
to measure the light output.

2428
01:50:32,705 --> 01:50:35,405
So again, it's hard for her to enforce the ordinance,

2429
01:50:37,065 --> 01:50:40,445
you know, so here we are with an applicant asking

2430
01:50:40,505 --> 01:50:43,205
for an ordinance to keep a lit sign.

2431
01:50:43,835 --> 01:50:45,965
Have after having already shown us

2432
01:50:46,235 --> 01:50:50,605
that he doesn't care about what you impose on him in terms

2433
01:50:50,625 --> 01:50:55,445
of his limits and then the town coming to me

2434
01:50:56,385 --> 01:50:58,445
or, or when I go to the town, they say basically,

2435
01:50:58,445 --> 01:51:00,445
well it's really hard for us to actually

2436
01:51:01,155 --> 01:51:02,965
like forcibly enforce this.

2437
01:51:03,585 --> 01:51:06,405
So, you know, how do we handle this again, you know,

2438
01:51:06,405 --> 01:51:07,485
this comes to my speech

2439
01:51:07,485 --> 01:51:10,325
where I ended it talking about an exercise in trust.

2440
01:51:10,325 --> 01:51:12,365
Right. Frankly, I have none

2441
01:51:12,425 --> 01:51:15,645
and I don't think you should either in the applicant, it's

2442
01:51:17,435 --> 01:51:18,435
Okay.

2443
01:51:18,435 --> 01:51:18,905
No. If I,

2444
01:51:19,405 --> 01:51:21,485
I apologize if I'm opening this can of worms.

2445
01:51:23,265 --> 01:51:25,005
My, and I was just looking through the conditions Mr.

2446
01:51:25,285 --> 01:51:29,885
Je my, I don't dispute what we had discussed, the dimming,

2447
01:51:29,905 --> 01:51:32,525
the, the hours, everything

2448
01:51:32,945 --> 01:51:34,525
but my re I can't find it here so I apologize.

2449
01:51:34,545 --> 01:51:37,045
My recollection, was it specifically tied

2450
01:51:37,045 --> 01:51:39,085
to the message center though, or do you think there could be

2451
01:51:39,085 --> 01:51:41,165
any, and I'm just asking the question,

2452
01:51:41,165 --> 01:51:42,445
do you think there could be any misconception

2453
01:51:42,445 --> 01:51:45,125
that it was tied directly to the electronic message center

2454
01:51:45,145 --> 01:51:47,445
or was your recollection that it was very specifically

2455
01:51:47,445 --> 01:51:49,405
to the entire pile pile on

2456
01:51:49,905 --> 01:51:53,605
The, the entire ZBA process with that was very kind

2457
01:51:53,605 --> 01:51:55,885
of hard to determine what we were talking about.

2458
01:51:57,415 --> 01:52:01,005
There could have been misunderstanding on his end.

2459
01:52:01,205 --> 01:52:05,565
I don't know. My interpretation of going through all of

2460
01:52:06,545 --> 01:52:08,965
the minutes of it is that it is global

2461
01:52:10,465 --> 01:52:12,605
and the town ordinance

2462
01:52:12,605 --> 01:52:15,445
to my understanding also requires the lit

2463
01:52:15,565 --> 01:52:16,645
signs to be turned off.

2464
01:52:17,145 --> 01:52:18,645
So that understanding really

2465
01:52:18,645 --> 01:52:21,325
shouldn't have been there if he had one. I'm

2466
01:52:21,325 --> 01:52:22,325
Trying to justify it.

2467
01:52:22,325 --> 01:52:23,085
Just, sorry, sorry to interrupt.

2468
01:52:23,085 --> 01:52:25,165
Just trying to say, I'm hoping to find that it was just a

2469
01:52:25,415 --> 01:52:26,605
Right, just a mistake.

2470
01:52:26,905 --> 01:52:30,085
I'd like to add too, that in speaking to Ms. Owen,

2471
01:52:31,075 --> 01:52:35,725
when I spoke to her in person again, she explained to me,

2472
01:52:36,185 --> 01:52:37,365
you know, as I was asking

2473
01:52:37,425 --> 01:52:40,245
for updates on basically why hasn't this sign been taken

2474
01:52:40,315 --> 01:52:42,765
down yet, you know, it's been here illegally for this long.

2475
01:52:43,145 --> 01:52:47,765
Her response was that she has stopped by his location

2476
01:52:48,065 --> 01:52:49,365
and you know, knocked on the door.

2477
01:52:49,825 --> 01:52:52,885
She has sent him letters, she has emailed him,

2478
01:52:52,905 --> 01:52:55,525
she has called him and he ignores her at every turn.

2479
01:52:56,225 --> 01:52:58,765
So, you know, a again,

2480
01:52:58,765 --> 01:53:02,005
if we're talking about misunderstandings, if, if he had one,

2481
01:53:02,185 --> 01:53:05,805
he sure tried real hard to avoid being corrected on it.

2482
01:53:07,835 --> 01:53:11,245
Okay. My thought might be if we get to the end,

2483
01:53:11,255 --> 01:53:14,765
maybe we end up tabling a decision to get accurate research

2484
01:53:15,625 --> 01:53:17,805
as to what the prior orders were. Yeah.

2485
01:53:18,025 --> 01:53:19,365
And definitely make sure it's clarified

2486
01:53:19,505 --> 01:53:20,885
or anything is just identified.

2487
01:53:21,035 --> 01:53:23,085
Okay. But I don't, yeah, I agree. Alright.

2488
01:53:23,465 --> 01:53:25,205
May I ask a question, Mr. Darling?

2489
01:53:25,705 --> 01:53:29,205
Is, we spoke on the lights and the size of the signs.

2490
01:53:29,385 --> 01:53:34,205
Is there any particular aversion in your eyes

2491
01:53:34,265 --> 01:53:35,525
to the style of the sign?

2492
01:53:36,085 --> 01:53:39,525
I I notice your renderings were more of like a horizontal

2493
01:53:39,955 --> 01:53:40,955
Yeah.

2494
01:53:41,185 --> 01:53:43,525
You, you mean in terms of it being a

2495
01:53:45,755 --> 01:53:48,925
More of a killer vertical? Yeah.

2496
01:53:49,045 --> 01:53:52,805
A a pylon sign. Yeah. Right. Not, not necessarily.

2497
01:53:53,525 --> 01:53:55,245
Honestly, when I went to make the renderings though,

2498
01:53:55,385 --> 01:53:57,605
it just didn't make sense to have a pylon

2499
01:53:57,745 --> 01:53:59,325
for 24 square feet.

2500
01:53:59,865 --> 01:54:04,085
So I, I made them look more fitting

2501
01:54:04,225 --> 01:54:05,845
to the size that is allowed.

2502
01:54:07,165 --> 01:54:09,885
I don't know that I would object to a pylon itself as long

2503
01:54:09,885 --> 01:54:12,485
as it, it was within the ordinance in terms of size

2504
01:54:12,625 --> 01:54:13,845
and lack of lighting.

2505
01:54:17,195 --> 01:54:20,285
Okay, thank you. So it I was just handed,

2506
01:54:22,805 --> 01:54:26,435
sorry, I was just handed by multiple people documents

2507
01:54:26,435 --> 01:54:30,995
that show that the variance was for the signs,

2508
01:54:31,415 --> 01:54:34,595
not for the, that EMC,

2509
01:54:36,335 --> 01:54:37,395
The DMC

2510
01:54:37,655 --> 01:54:38,995
And one of them says,

2511
01:54:39,375 --> 01:54:43,715
and this is directly out of the meeting minutes, Mr.

2512
01:54:44,325 --> 01:54:47,155
Yanko said he would prefer the sign not

2513
01:54:47,155 --> 01:54:49,115
to be lit 24 hours a day

2514
01:54:49,575 --> 01:54:52,435
and planned to have them lit only when needed.

2515
01:54:53,335 --> 01:54:56,395
So you know, out of KO's, Mr.

2516
01:54:56,865 --> 01:55:00,995
KO's own words from the meeting minutes, you know,

2517
01:55:00,995 --> 01:55:02,315
he says have them lit.

2518
01:55:02,495 --> 01:55:05,395
So that indicates signage, not EMC.

2519
01:55:08,665 --> 01:55:12,835
Okay. Thank you for that. Anything else Mr. Roge?

2520
01:55:14,395 --> 01:55:17,155
I am all set if you are all set with me. Any

2521
01:55:17,315 --> 01:55:18,915
Questions for Mr. Rose from anybody?

2522
01:55:19,015 --> 01:55:20,515
Mr. Dietzel, you're awful quiet.

2523
01:55:21,415 --> 01:55:23,115
I'm all set. Thank you Mr. Chair. All right, Mr.

2524
01:55:23,355 --> 01:55:26,035
Bumba, anything? All set? How about you Mr. Dani?

2525
01:55:26,035 --> 01:55:29,635
You all set? All right, very good. Thank you. Mr. Rose.

2526
01:55:29,805 --> 01:55:32,315
Thank you all for your time. Anybody else?

2527
01:55:38,975 --> 01:55:40,555
I'm being asked for some paperwork back.

2528
01:55:41,425 --> 01:55:44,485
Okay. Just that.

2529
01:55:52,675 --> 01:55:54,375
Hi there. Good evening. Good

2530
01:55:54,375 --> 01:55:55,375
Evening.

2531
01:55:55,375 --> 01:55:56,615
My name's Jessica Cloutier.

2532
01:55:57,055 --> 01:55:59,335
I live at 1 64 Hampstead Road

2533
01:56:00,915 --> 01:56:04,575
and I present, I have a statement that I prepared for

2534
01:56:04,575 --> 01:56:05,575
This evening.

2535
01:56:05,575 --> 01:56:06,335
Could you speak a little louder? Sorry.

2536
01:56:07,545 --> 01:56:11,415
Sorry, I'm quiet. Can you hear me? Yep. Yep. Okay.

2537
01:56:12,875 --> 01:56:15,735
So I oppose the 50 square foot pylon sign.

2538
01:56:15,845 --> 01:56:18,975
Bird Enterprises has requested a variance floor

2539
01:56:21,075 --> 01:56:22,455
For this variance to be granted.

2540
01:56:22,485 --> 01:56:25,215
They must show that their proposal meets all five

2541
01:56:25,235 --> 01:56:26,455
of the following conditions.

2542
01:56:26,805 --> 01:56:29,975
Condition one. There shall be no decrease in the value

2543
01:56:30,035 --> 01:56:32,495
of surrounding properties in the past.

2544
01:56:32,715 --> 01:56:35,295
At June 19th, 2025 meeting abuts

2545
01:56:35,495 --> 01:56:38,215
provided the board with a letter from a licensed real estate

2546
01:56:38,465 --> 01:56:41,815
agent stating that their home value will be affected,

2547
01:56:42,235 --> 01:56:43,255
but it was dismissed

2548
01:56:43,255 --> 01:56:44,815
because it was their realtor's opinion

2549
01:56:44,925 --> 01:56:46,775
that their home value would decrease.

2550
01:56:47,575 --> 01:56:49,655
I don't know what proof the board was hoping for,

2551
01:56:49,755 --> 01:56:52,215
but I think written opinion

2552
01:56:52,235 --> 01:56:54,175
of a professional in the field should be enough.

2553
01:56:55,165 --> 01:56:57,215
Like discussed in past meetings.

2554
01:56:57,695 --> 01:57:00,055
Research can be found for both sides,

2555
01:57:00,395 --> 01:57:02,095
but it's pr pretty obvious

2556
01:57:02,245 --> 01:57:05,855
that property value decreases when a quiet residential area

2557
01:57:06,075 --> 01:57:07,615
begins to look and feel commercial,

2558
01:57:08,065 --> 01:57:09,655
which this type of sign will do.

2559
01:57:09,985 --> 01:57:12,455
These backlit pylon signs are typically designed

2560
01:57:12,475 --> 01:57:15,015
for commercial corridors, not neighborhoods.

2561
01:57:15,545 --> 01:57:18,415
These signs cause a visual intrusion

2562
01:57:18,515 --> 01:57:20,255
and change the character of the neighborhood.

2563
01:57:20,645 --> 01:57:22,695
This is a neighborhood of historic homes

2564
01:57:22,755 --> 01:57:24,855
and farms, not commercial businesses.

2565
01:57:25,845 --> 01:57:28,495
Condition two, they must demonstrate that

2566
01:57:29,055 --> 01:57:31,575
granting the variance would be in the public's interest

2567
01:57:32,085 --> 01:57:34,495
when referring to the public's best interest.

2568
01:57:34,885 --> 01:57:36,495
That also includes the abutters

2569
01:57:36,495 --> 01:57:38,335
and everyone else in the surrounding neighborhoods.

2570
01:57:38,915 --> 01:57:41,695
And we get no benefit from the private business.

2571
01:57:41,695 --> 01:57:46,415
Installing a commercial sign, it brings light pollution,

2572
01:57:46,485 --> 01:57:49,735
traffic, distraction, and disruption to a residential area.

2573
01:57:50,155 --> 01:57:54,095
Public interest lies in preserving neighborhood character,

2574
01:57:54,475 --> 01:57:57,015
not promoting commercial activity in a zone

2575
01:57:57,015 --> 01:57:58,055
that's not meant for it.

2576
01:57:58,915 --> 01:58:02,295
At the June 5th, 2025 meeting, the representative

2577
01:58:02,435 --> 01:58:05,695
for Bird Enterprise stated this condition was met

2578
01:58:05,695 --> 01:58:07,735
because clear signage would help

2579
01:58:08,475 --> 01:58:10,095
secure the future of the business.

2580
01:58:10,735 --> 01:58:11,935
I would have to disagree.

2581
01:58:12,345 --> 01:58:15,015
Della hti has run a successful business

2582
01:58:15,035 --> 01:58:18,735
for 18 years at their Wyndham location without them having

2583
01:58:18,755 --> 01:58:20,375
to have an oversized sign.

2584
01:58:20,795 --> 01:58:22,335
And this makes it clear to me

2585
01:58:22,405 --> 01:58:25,095
that this is something they want for their convenience

2586
01:58:25,095 --> 01:58:26,855
and not something they need to be successful.

2587
01:58:27,285 --> 01:58:30,535
They have successfully operated at their Wyndham location

2588
01:58:30,755 --> 01:58:35,015
for 18 years where they have had an external lit sign

2589
01:58:35,205 --> 01:58:37,375
with a changeable letter sign

2590
01:58:37,425 --> 01:58:39,695
where they can manually update the messages

2591
01:58:39,795 --> 01:58:41,365
by swapping out the letters.

2592
01:58:41,945 --> 01:58:46,285
And if you see at the bottom picture that I have over there,

2593
01:58:47,035 --> 01:58:49,765
that is their old sign from their Wyndham location.

2594
01:58:51,475 --> 01:58:54,365
This type of sign is more appropriate for East area

2595
01:58:54,455 --> 01:58:56,325
where many other businesses use the same type

2596
01:58:56,325 --> 01:58:59,405
of sign condition.

2597
01:58:59,485 --> 01:59:01,205
Three, A hardship must exist,

2598
01:59:01,255 --> 01:59:03,965
which is inherited in the land in question.

2599
01:59:04,875 --> 01:59:07,885
They can make an argument that there is a hardship due

2600
01:59:07,885 --> 01:59:11,005
to a commercial business being in a residential area,

2601
01:59:11,265 --> 01:59:13,405
but he made the choice to move into this low,

2602
01:59:13,405 --> 01:59:15,365
medium density residential district.

2603
01:59:15,675 --> 01:59:18,045
Knowing this to be the case, choosing

2604
01:59:18,225 --> 01:59:20,525
to locate a business in a residential

2605
01:59:20,805 --> 01:59:22,045
district is not a hardship.

2606
01:59:22,155 --> 01:59:24,805
It's a decision and not a physical constraint.

2607
01:59:25,485 --> 01:59:27,845
A hardship must relate to the land itself,

2608
01:59:27,945 --> 01:59:30,005
not the owner's desire to advertise more.

2609
01:59:30,665 --> 01:59:32,245
No legitimate hardship exists.

2610
01:59:33,105 --> 01:59:35,565
The business just wants better visibility,

2611
01:59:35,565 --> 01:59:37,525
which is not grounds for a variance.

2612
01:59:38,315 --> 01:59:41,325
It's been stated that they have a hardship due to location,

2613
01:59:41,505 --> 01:59:44,005
but I do not believe the location is a hardship.

2614
01:59:44,355 --> 01:59:47,765
Hampstead Road is a major roadway with many people driving

2615
01:59:47,825 --> 01:59:50,125
by each day seeing this wide open lot,

2616
01:59:50,125 --> 01:59:51,965
clearly showing what the business is.

2617
01:59:52,305 --> 01:59:56,525
You can clearly see the northeast elite athletic signs on

2618
01:59:56,525 --> 01:59:57,965
the building and the bays

2619
01:59:57,965 --> 01:59:59,805
with landscaping materials in the parking

2620
01:59:59,865 --> 02:00:03,605
lot condition.

2621
02:00:03,605 --> 02:00:07,445
Four, by granting the variance substantial justice will be

2622
02:00:07,445 --> 02:00:09,885
done at the June 5th, 2025 meeting.

2623
02:00:10,305 --> 02:00:12,405
The representative for Bird Enterprise stated,

2624
02:00:12,835 --> 02:00:15,485
substantial justice will be done to the owner

2625
02:00:15,625 --> 02:00:16,965
by granting the variance.

2626
02:00:17,515 --> 02:00:20,885
Signage is going to be a key element in the advertising

2627
02:00:20,985 --> 02:00:23,245
and the success of this unique situation.

2628
02:00:23,755 --> 02:00:26,325
Most facilities of this type are in zones

2629
02:00:26,325 --> 02:00:27,765
that allow adequate signage.

2630
02:00:27,765 --> 02:00:29,005
This is not end quote.

2631
02:00:29,705 --> 02:00:31,605
At this time, I would like to bring your attention

2632
02:00:31,705 --> 02:00:34,245
to the pictures I have brought along with me.

2633
02:00:34,535 --> 02:00:37,925
These are the other facilities of this type that he refers

2634
02:00:37,925 --> 02:00:41,325
to, to that, that are also located in dairy.

2635
02:00:41,385 --> 02:00:43,765
Please note that all these landscaping and

2636
02:00:43,765 --> 02:00:47,405
or nursery businesses have an ex, ex, sorry,

2637
02:00:48,405 --> 02:00:51,845
externally lit sign with a changeable letter sign,

2638
02:00:51,845 --> 02:00:53,205
which is the same type of sign

2639
02:00:53,205 --> 02:00:54,445
that was at the Wyndham location.

2640
02:00:55,265 --> 02:00:58,685
So I, I went around town and I located all the nurseries

2641
02:00:58,985 --> 02:01:02,885
and all of them have these same types of signs.

2642
02:01:03,235 --> 02:01:08,165
They don't have a backlit sign like he is requesting.

2643
02:01:09,385 --> 02:01:11,885
One of these businesses is Spring Look Farm

2644
02:01:11,915 --> 02:01:15,445
that is located at one 12 Island Pond Road here in Derry.

2645
02:01:15,745 --> 02:01:17,645
And they have been in business for decades.

2646
02:01:18,275 --> 02:01:21,565
They are on a more secluded road with a lot less traffic

2647
02:01:21,785 --> 02:01:25,365
and their building is approximately 860 feet from the road

2648
02:01:26,865 --> 02:01:28,205
and out of sight from the road.

2649
02:01:28,625 --> 02:01:29,845
But they have managed

2650
02:01:29,865 --> 02:01:32,525
to successfully stay in business all these years without

2651
02:01:32,565 --> 02:01:33,605
a more modern sign.

2652
02:01:33,985 --> 02:01:37,765
So why does Bird Enterprise need a 50 square foot back lit

2653
02:01:38,165 --> 02:01:41,485
pylon sign to advertise his business when he is on a much

2654
02:01:41,485 --> 02:01:45,205
busier road and only 300 feet from the road

2655
02:01:45,265 --> 02:01:46,645
and is visible from the road,

2656
02:01:47,265 --> 02:01:50,605
he would be the only nursery in town with this type of sign.

2657
02:01:51,465 --> 02:01:54,125
If all these types of businesses in town have these types

2658
02:01:54,145 --> 02:01:56,405
of signs that fit the character of this town,

2659
02:01:56,865 --> 02:02:00,285
why does this location need such a oversized modern

2660
02:02:00,295 --> 02:02:04,045
industrial type sign to draw people in now?

2661
02:02:04,045 --> 02:02:07,365
Condition five. The use must not be contrary to the spirit

2662
02:02:07,505 --> 02:02:09,125
and intent of the ordinance.

2663
02:02:09,545 --> 02:02:11,845
The spirit of the ordinance is separate

2664
02:02:12,915 --> 02:02:14,565
residential and commercial use.

2665
02:02:14,745 --> 02:02:18,045
The ordinance is designed to promote the health and safety

2666
02:02:18,145 --> 02:02:22,445
and welfare of residents granting this variance would under

2667
02:02:22,795 --> 02:02:25,765
undermine the entire purpose of this residential zoning.

2668
02:02:26,665 --> 02:02:29,445
So in conclusion, the applicant does not meet any

2669
02:02:29,445 --> 02:02:31,365
of the five conditions required for variance.

2670
02:02:31,825 --> 02:02:34,645
It would reduce surrounding property values.

2671
02:02:35,025 --> 02:02:36,885
It does not serve the public's interest.

2672
02:02:37,625 --> 02:02:39,445
No land-based hardship exists.

2673
02:02:40,105 --> 02:02:42,645
It one sidedly favors one party over many

2674
02:02:43,025 --> 02:02:44,765
and it clearly violates the purpose

2675
02:02:44,865 --> 02:02:46,765
and intent of the zoning ordinance.

2676
02:02:47,105 --> 02:02:49,525
For these reasons, I respectfully urge the board

2677
02:02:49,525 --> 02:02:52,565
to deny the 50 square foot pile and sign

2678
02:02:52,785 --> 02:02:54,325
and this residential district

2679
02:02:54,345 --> 02:02:57,525
and urge the applicant to rethink the type of sign for

2680
02:02:57,525 --> 02:02:59,205
that location and go for one

2681
02:02:59,205 --> 02:03:00,805
that is better suited for this area.

2682
02:03:06,065 --> 02:03:07,715
Good presentation. Thank You.

2683
02:03:08,625 --> 02:03:11,235
Alright, I've been asked if we can take a break.

2684
02:03:11,735 --> 02:03:13,235
Do you have anything else you want to add?

2685
02:03:15,015 --> 02:03:17,995
No. Okay. Mr.

2686
02:03:18,355 --> 02:03:21,475
Viner, we're gonna take a three, four minute recess.

2687
02:03:22,655 --> 02:03:24,235
All right? Okay. Very good. Thank you.

2688
02:03:25,425 --> 02:03:26,595
Anybody had any questions?

2689
02:03:29,795 --> 02:03:33,035
Can we can pull her back up

2690
02:03:33,035 --> 02:03:35,315
after Oh, we just dismissed.

2691
02:10:00,085 --> 02:10:02,105
Do you have follow up? I do not.

2692
02:10:02,375 --> 02:10:03,705
Okay. Coming up for an interrogation.

2693
02:10:03,965 --> 02:10:05,625
Any questions from anybody on the board?

2694
02:10:06,525 --> 02:10:08,985
Ah, I got a question for you. That's your true. Okay.

2695
02:10:11,425 --> 02:10:12,945
I like your signs. Thank

2696
02:10:12,945 --> 02:10:13,945
You.

2697
02:10:13,945 --> 02:10:16,865
Especially the one with the, the, the top and bottom sign.

2698
02:10:17,685 --> 02:10:20,905
Is that acceptable to you? That's basically two signs.

2699
02:10:22,825 --> 02:10:27,145
I think it fits better Yeah. Than what's currently there.

2700
02:10:28,215 --> 02:10:29,865
That is actually their sign.

2701
02:10:29,985 --> 02:10:31,105
I just have it up

2702
02:10:31,105 --> 02:10:35,205
because that is their old sign

2703
02:10:35,205 --> 02:10:36,405
from their Wyndham location.

2704
02:10:36,715 --> 02:10:38,765
Yeah. The top three are

2705
02:10:40,625 --> 02:10:42,845
the only nurseries in landscaping

2706
02:10:42,845 --> 02:10:46,005
that I've came across in dairy that are like his business.

2707
02:10:46,945 --> 02:10:48,285
And that's the signs that they have.

2708
02:10:50,035 --> 02:10:52,965
Well, I know the one sign, the, the groundhog sign.

2709
02:10:53,535 --> 02:10:56,245
Since I live on Wyndham Road, I go up

2710
02:10:56,245 --> 02:10:58,965
and down Bowers quite a bit, you know, and you know what?

2711
02:10:59,445 --> 02:11:00,965
I don't think I've ever noticed it.

2712
02:11:03,335 --> 02:11:04,805
Maybe if it was backlit.

2713
02:11:05,625 --> 02:11:10,205
No, it does have lighting. It does have external lighting.

2714
02:11:11,305 --> 02:11:14,205
No, it looks like they all do. Right? I I I was teasing.

2715
02:11:14,805 --> 02:11:17,925
I know. I'm sure they'll get there. Yeah. Okay.

2716
02:11:18,535 --> 02:11:20,605
We're all set. Yes, Sir. Just

2717
02:11:20,665 --> 02:11:22,125
You all set? I'm all set. Very

2718
02:11:22,125 --> 02:11:23,005
Good. Okay. Thank you.

2719
02:11:23,575 --> 02:11:25,285
Would you just mind repeating your name please?

2720
02:11:25,405 --> 02:11:27,005
I didn't catch it. When you introduce yourself,

2721
02:11:27,075 --> 02:11:28,325
It's Jessica Cloutier.

2722
02:11:28,715 --> 02:11:29,965
Okay. Thank you. Thank you.

2723
02:11:31,195 --> 02:11:32,045
Very good. Thank you

2724
02:11:40,895 --> 02:11:41,245
folks.

2725
02:11:42,965 --> 02:11:46,285
Good evening Will Davison one wishing well. Lane.

2726
02:11:46,825 --> 02:11:49,165
Brenda Davison one. Wishing a lie before.

2727
02:11:50,185 --> 02:11:54,845
Go ahead. Thank you. Andrew Rja, 1 64 Stead Road.

2728
02:11:54,845 --> 02:11:56,165
Again, just wanted

2729
02:11:56,165 --> 02:11:58,085
to see if it would be okay for me to submit these.

2730
02:11:58,085 --> 02:11:59,845
These are the images I put up on the board,

2731
02:12:00,225 --> 02:12:01,845
but physical copies for you guys to keep.

2732
02:12:03,225 --> 02:12:05,645
Do you need those for your master file, you think?

2733
02:12:05,645 --> 02:12:07,565
Thank you. You would prefer those Ms. Owen?

2734
02:12:07,715 --> 02:12:10,285
Yeah, I mean the board's seen them, so we don't need to,

2735
02:12:10,305 --> 02:12:12,085
we don't reflect back on that file.

2736
02:12:12,465 --> 02:12:14,765
If Ms. Owen would like 'em for the file, that's fine.

2737
02:12:15,345 --> 02:12:17,005
We need to make a motion for Mrs. Owen to accept, for

2738
02:12:17,185 --> 02:12:18,185
Accept.

2739
02:12:18,185 --> 02:12:18,725
No, this will stay within the depart,

2740
02:12:18,785 --> 02:12:19,785
So I think you just give 'em Ms. Owen.

2741
02:12:19,785 --> 02:12:20,685
Thank you. Thank you.

2742
02:12:21,595 --> 02:12:22,645
What was your name again?

2743
02:12:23,225 --> 02:12:24,605
Yes, my name is Will Davidson

2744
02:12:24,665 --> 02:12:26,085
and I'm on Davidson one wishing well.

2745
02:12:26,085 --> 02:12:27,085
Lane.

2746
02:12:27,555 --> 02:12:28,565
Okay, folks, go ahead.

2747
02:12:30,385 --> 02:12:33,885
My my opinion reflects the, the same opinions of everybody

2748
02:12:33,885 --> 02:12:35,125
that's been up here this evening

2749
02:12:35,305 --> 02:12:40,285
and opposed to the signs to that sign being continued

2750
02:12:40,285 --> 02:12:41,685
to be on that property.

2751
02:12:42,755 --> 02:12:44,285
It's been ruled to be taken down.

2752
02:12:44,285 --> 02:12:45,965
It still exists on the property

2753
02:12:46,065 --> 02:12:49,085
and I I don't think it belongs there.

2754
02:12:49,425 --> 02:12:53,565
It the, you know,

2755
02:12:53,635 --> 02:12:56,965
when you, well, a couple things.

2756
02:12:56,975 --> 02:12:59,845
First of all, Mr. Trip, you said something about compromise.

2757
02:13:00,205 --> 02:13:02,605
I think we as residents were trying

2758
02:13:02,605 --> 02:13:06,885
to compromise pretty hard in opposing the back lit

2759
02:13:06,905 --> 02:13:08,725
or the message lit sign.

2760
02:13:09,425 --> 02:13:14,245
And you folks all decided that us trying

2761
02:13:14,245 --> 02:13:16,285
to compromise that situation,

2762
02:13:17,105 --> 02:13:18,925
you voted against it a hundred percent

2763
02:13:18,945 --> 02:13:20,285
and went with the whole sign.

2764
02:13:21,265 --> 02:13:25,605
So, I, I just want to say that when you say compromise it,

2765
02:13:25,625 --> 02:13:28,325
it didn't feel like there was compromise one bit from

2766
02:13:28,325 --> 02:13:30,965
that side at that night. Sorry, Mr.

2767
02:13:31,145 --> 02:13:33,685
Do you mean not splitting up the electronic sign with the

2768
02:13:33,685 --> 02:13:34,685
Rest of the time?

2769
02:13:34,685 --> 02:13:37,205
Yeah, a hundred percent. And so today I live

2770
02:13:37,885 --> 02:13:39,205
directly across from that building

2771
02:13:39,905 --> 02:13:44,125
and the, the lights come into three of the, of my bedrooms

2772
02:13:45,225 --> 02:13:47,005
all night and,

2773
02:13:49,145 --> 02:13:50,145
And our dining room.

2774
02:13:50,185 --> 02:13:51,325
And our dining room. And so,

2775
02:13:51,325 --> 02:13:52,405
and in my living room, living room

2776
02:13:52,905 --> 02:13:54,485
All night, All night, all night.

2777
02:13:54,745 --> 02:13:57,125
The signs have been on all night every night.

2778
02:13:57,805 --> 02:13:59,725
I don't know a night that I have not seen 'em off

2779
02:14:01,065 --> 02:14:02,405
on, let me step back.

2780
02:14:02,665 --> 02:14:07,485
The building signs are on 80% of the time all night.

2781
02:14:08,345 --> 02:14:11,845
The pylon sign is on 24 or on every night.

2782
02:14:11,965 --> 02:14:13,525
I have not, I have not seen that sign

2783
02:14:14,075 --> 02:14:15,245
shut off once. They usually

2784
02:14:15,305 --> 02:14:17,205
Go off at, that one goes off at, like,

2785
02:14:17,555 --> 02:14:20,485
this pylon goes off at like six 15 in the morning.

2786
02:14:20,575 --> 02:14:22,805
Right. And so Goes off,

2787
02:14:23,295 --> 02:14:25,805
Shuts off, shuts off at, shuts off at six or seven.

2788
02:14:25,925 --> 02:14:28,005
I understand that in the morning. That's then comes back on

2789
02:14:28,005 --> 02:14:29,325
at, you know, four in the afternoon

2790
02:14:29,345 --> 02:14:31,845
and stays on until six or seven the next morning.

2791
02:14:33,255 --> 02:14:34,485
These are the pylon signs?

2792
02:14:34,785 --> 02:14:36,165
Yes. The pylon signs. Yep.

2793
02:14:36,425 --> 02:14:38,125
And the building signs have been left on

2794
02:14:38,125 --> 02:14:39,565
overnight numerous times.

2795
02:14:40,115 --> 02:14:42,405
Very bright. And from the pictures you saw,

2796
02:14:42,405 --> 02:14:44,445
they're super bright, they're intrusive.

2797
02:14:44,445 --> 02:14:49,365
And my house, I've had family members stay the

2798
02:14:49,365 --> 02:14:50,485
night and they're like, geez,

2799
02:14:50,625 --> 02:14:52,205
you guys have some bright lights out there.

2800
02:14:53,195 --> 02:14:56,245
Like, unbelievable.

2801
02:14:56,585 --> 02:14:59,565
In fact, I'm gonna joke a little bit here.

2802
02:14:59,585 --> 02:15:01,365
The, the, the guys that are going up

2803
02:15:01,585 --> 02:15:03,845
around the moon probably can see those damn

2804
02:15:03,845 --> 02:15:06,885
lights at this point. Just a joke.

2805
02:15:07,105 --> 02:15:09,565
Now you said the pylon lights are on from like four

2806
02:15:09,635 --> 02:15:11,645
till when

2807
02:15:13,345 --> 02:15:14,345
It gets dark.

2808
02:15:14,345 --> 02:15:15,885
Eight o'clock in the morning, four in the afternoon

2809
02:15:15,935 --> 02:15:17,565
until seven or eight o'clock the next morning.

2810
02:15:18,855 --> 02:15:21,585
Well, like six 30 depending.

2811
02:15:23,965 --> 02:15:25,625
And the, and the building lights are on

2812
02:15:27,175 --> 02:15:29,465
Some nights they're on from four o'clock at night

2813
02:15:29,715 --> 02:15:31,705
until 6:00 AM Some nights they're off.

2814
02:15:35,085 --> 02:15:37,585
It may not be a big deal to you guys, but this is our home

2815
02:15:38,405 --> 02:15:40,785
and it's, it's intrusive. It's, well,

2816
02:15:40,785 --> 02:15:41,785
I don't drive out.

2817
02:15:41,785 --> 02:15:42,705
We can sit on back on the road very often

2818
02:15:42,705 --> 02:15:43,985
either, so I don't know.

2819
02:15:43,985 --> 02:15:48,465
Especially at seven o'clock at night. Oh, Hamstead Road.

2820
02:15:49,865 --> 02:15:51,345
I do go Windham Road. That's,

2821
02:15:51,855 --> 02:15:54,825
Anyways, you know, you should drive down there.

2822
02:15:54,975 --> 02:15:56,185
It's it's pretty bright.

2823
02:15:56,185 --> 02:15:59,985
It's a pretty intrusive, bright late area at this point.

2824
02:15:59,985 --> 02:16:02,305
Yeah, yeah. So I'm opposed to it.

2825
02:16:03,445 --> 02:16:05,465
The court has ruled that these lights

2826
02:16:06,125 --> 02:16:08,385
or this, that sign does not belong there.

2827
02:16:08,525 --> 02:16:10,425
And I'm gonna stick with that at this point.

2828
02:16:13,175 --> 02:16:14,665
Well, something I understand

2829
02:16:14,765 --> 02:16:19,025
and I I, you alluded to this with Mr. Foley earlier,

2830
02:16:20,285 --> 02:16:23,865
you know, probably the, the,

2831
02:16:26,205 --> 02:16:29,845
the board, the minutes recorded, you know, that,

2832
02:16:29,845 --> 02:16:32,565
that are are approved by the board and the reflections

2833
02:16:32,955 --> 02:16:33,955
They're on here Yeah.

2834
02:16:34,145 --> 02:16:38,485
Can read. Yeah. Probably weren't the, you know, the,

2835
02:16:38,585 --> 02:16:41,045
the best showing for this board historically.

2836
02:16:42,105 --> 02:16:44,005
And I will,

2837
02:16:44,305 --> 02:16:47,165
and I spoke to this, I referenced the Parkland signed

2838
02:16:47,305 --> 02:16:49,165
and others that we've approved

2839
02:16:49,345 --> 02:16:53,605
and understand the dispute of the safety of it,

2840
02:16:53,605 --> 02:16:57,765
which was the focus of the EMS and whether

2841
02:16:57,765 --> 02:17:00,605
or not it's a distraction and my own history

2842
02:17:00,605 --> 02:17:03,325
and knowledge of it, which the upper courts look for.

2843
02:17:06,435 --> 02:17:09,805
Just said to me, I, I know what this is going to be like

2844
02:17:09,945 --> 02:17:12,405
and I believe the pylon sign will be worse

2845
02:17:13,315 --> 02:17:15,365
than the electronic messaging sign.

2846
02:17:15,385 --> 02:17:17,885
And that was, that was where the majority of the,

2847
02:17:17,985 --> 02:17:19,525
the testimony was focused.

2848
02:17:20,325 --> 02:17:23,045
I think in regards to a compromise.

2849
02:17:23,505 --> 02:17:26,925
And I think you may have heard me say earlier, you know,

2850
02:17:26,925 --> 02:17:29,445
if this, if the applicant doesn't prevail here,

2851
02:17:29,635 --> 02:17:33,565
they have the ability to come back and modify and ask again.

2852
02:17:33,665 --> 02:17:35,045
And the question is, how many times

2853
02:17:35,585 --> 02:17:36,845
do you want to keep doing this?

2854
02:17:37,665 --> 02:17:40,965
And you know, in regards to a compromise, you know,

2855
02:17:41,145 --> 02:17:44,365
the board's decision, my own reflections, I can't speak

2856
02:17:44,365 --> 02:17:46,845
to the reflections of other members that voted on this

2857
02:17:48,345 --> 02:17:52,125
may not be the most advantageous thing as the abutter

2858
02:17:52,545 --> 02:17:53,805
to take a position on.

2859
02:17:54,245 --> 02:17:57,045
It's almost like you're retaliating against the applicant

2860
02:17:57,105 --> 02:17:59,885
for the board's decision, so to speak, is what I'm hearing.

2861
02:18:01,315 --> 02:18:02,685
It's just an advisory thing.

2862
02:18:03,505 --> 02:18:04,525
You're advising me,

2863
02:18:04,915 --> 02:18:06,685
Just suggesting that, you know,

2864
02:18:06,685 --> 02:18:08,965
those reflections are worth considering.

2865
02:18:09,085 --> 02:18:10,485
I think so.

2866
02:18:10,725 --> 02:18:11,765
'cause in the end you don't know where

2867
02:18:11,765 --> 02:18:13,445
the decision's going to go.

2868
02:18:14,585 --> 02:18:15,765
You, you're correct.

2869
02:18:16,625 --> 02:18:20,805
But I can say that you don't know what what it is

2870
02:18:21,215 --> 02:18:24,205
until you see it and then, then it's like, oh my God,

2871
02:18:24,205 --> 02:18:26,165
this is much different than what I thought.

2872
02:18:26,825 --> 02:18:29,565
No doubt. So, you know, I'm not, I will share with you

2873
02:18:29,565 --> 02:18:31,765
that I'm not happy to see these images

2874
02:18:32,185 --> 02:18:35,285
and know that the board put positions on, on the approval

2875
02:18:35,825 --> 02:18:39,725
to try and make sure that there's protections

2876
02:18:39,905 --> 02:18:41,205
for your concerns.

2877
02:18:41,205 --> 02:18:43,725
Yeah. And to hear that isn't isn't making

2878
02:18:43,745 --> 02:18:44,765
me feel good right now.

2879
02:18:44,815 --> 02:18:46,965
Right. So, and I said this

2880
02:18:47,825 --> 02:18:50,525
the last two times was you give an inch,

2881
02:18:50,825 --> 02:18:53,045
you go another inch, another inch, another inch, and it,

2882
02:18:53,045 --> 02:18:57,205
and it continues, you know, at what point does he go back

2883
02:18:57,265 --> 02:18:58,885
and actually turn this into

2884
02:18:59,565 --> 02:19:01,965
a commercials actual commercial lot

2885
02:19:02,225 --> 02:19:03,725
and then he can do whatever he'd like.

2886
02:19:03,845 --> 02:19:06,405
I mean, there's, I I'm afraid

2887
02:19:06,425 --> 02:19:09,365
of the compromise.

2888
02:19:09,745 --> 02:19:10,745
One sided.

2889
02:19:12,395 --> 02:19:14,965
Yeah. Oh, I don't like just painting with a broad brush,

2890
02:19:15,645 --> 02:19:18,085
personalities, businesses, that kind of,

2891
02:19:18,105 --> 02:19:19,245
as you're conveying here,

2892
02:19:19,765 --> 02:19:23,525
because that's not necessarily, so we've had approvals where

2893
02:19:24,055 --> 02:19:26,325
we've, where this board's granted relief

2894
02:19:26,585 --> 02:19:28,805
and the compliance has been,

2895
02:19:29,895 --> 02:19:31,325
we've never had an issue with it.

2896
02:19:31,505 --> 02:19:33,885
So it's, it's hard to paint

2897
02:19:33,885 --> 02:19:35,365
with a broad brush in the light that you

2898
02:19:35,365 --> 02:19:36,365
Just shared.

2899
02:19:36,365 --> 02:19:37,405
Sure. Shared except here we are. Yep.

2900
02:19:37,905 --> 02:19:42,365
And the broad brush is he's ignored the court. I see.

2901
02:19:42,365 --> 02:19:46,605
He's ignored the board. He's ignored Mrs. Owens.

2902
02:19:47,155 --> 02:19:49,125
He's ignored, ignored, ignored.

2903
02:19:50,805 --> 02:19:54,925
I would like to say that I was against the sign the whole

2904
02:19:54,925 --> 02:19:56,365
sign and I said that Yes,

2905
02:19:56,525 --> 02:19:57,725
I was trying to find it in the minutes.

2906
02:19:57,925 --> 02:20:00,365
I can't, but I think I said it to you. Yes, you did.

2907
02:20:00,405 --> 02:20:03,725
I remember. So I did say that. Okay. I was against it.

2908
02:20:06,025 --> 02:20:07,565
The other thing I was gonna say was,

2909
02:20:08,905 --> 02:20:10,085
now I lost my train of thought.

2910
02:20:10,745 --> 02:20:12,205
We just, you know, in the minutes,

2911
02:20:12,225 --> 02:20:13,845
so we can hand this over to you if you'd like,

2912
02:20:13,845 --> 02:20:16,725
but it within the minutes you can read it.

2913
02:20:16,875 --> 02:20:21,205
Yeah, go ahead and read that if you'd like. So this is on

2914
02:20:22,075 --> 02:20:24,325
June 5th, 2025.

2915
02:20:24,345 --> 02:20:26,325
Mr. Yco said he would prefer the sign not

2916
02:20:26,325 --> 02:20:27,645
to be lit 24 hours a day

2917
02:20:28,065 --> 02:20:29,925
and plan to have them lit only when needed.

2918
02:20:30,105 --> 02:20:32,965
Mr. Tripp asked what hours the electronic sign would be lit.

2919
02:20:33,385 --> 02:20:35,885
And Mr. Yco said he planned to have it lit

2920
02:20:35,885 --> 02:20:40,005
during higher traffic hours, which would be seven to 9:00 PM

2921
02:20:44,255 --> 02:20:46,835
Mr. Burgess asked if all signs would be off when the

2922
02:20:46,835 --> 02:20:48,555
electronic message sign was off.

2923
02:20:48,575 --> 02:20:50,795
And Mr. Yco said Yes, that's correct.

2924
02:20:51,625 --> 02:20:53,715
Yeah, we can see that. That's a dispute here.

2925
02:20:53,985 --> 02:20:56,715
I've there's been no hesitation about that.

2926
02:20:57,395 --> 02:21:00,555
I just expressed my Yeah. Concerns about it.

2927
02:21:00,575 --> 02:21:03,115
Yep. My other thing I wanted to bring up was the realtor.

2928
02:21:03,865 --> 02:21:07,235
When I brought documentation from a realtor, it was,

2929
02:21:07,615 --> 02:21:10,355
you told me, do you know what an opinion is?

2930
02:21:11,775 --> 02:21:13,795
But tonight you were saying like his realtor,

2931
02:21:15,375 --> 02:21:16,375
Not such an opinion.

2932
02:21:16,375 --> 02:21:18,715
Not such an opinion. That's what I gathered

2933
02:21:18,715 --> 02:21:20,795
what you said was like, when you say his,

2934
02:21:20,855 --> 02:21:22,875
his realtors are realtors.

2935
02:21:22,895 --> 02:21:25,995
My realtor wasn't a realtor. It's just her opinion. Well,

2936
02:21:25,995 --> 02:21:29,555
We have rendered a decision on this, on in that regard.

2937
02:21:29,555 --> 02:21:32,035
Right. But Mr. Foley brought it up earlier about,

2938
02:21:32,125 --> 02:21:33,835
about having a, a statement.

2939
02:21:34,455 --> 02:21:37,955
The the court's, higher court's rulings are that the board,

2940
02:21:38,145 --> 02:21:40,955
it's one of those things where even when professional

2941
02:21:42,115 --> 02:21:46,995
opinions are given, that the board has the ability to,

2942
02:21:47,375 --> 02:21:51,635
to differentiate that and, and decis decide whether

2943
02:21:51,695 --> 02:21:56,355
or not it's significant or whether or not we know better.

2944
02:21:56,775 --> 02:21:59,195
So are you deciding that his realtors

2945
02:21:59,195 --> 02:22:00,315
would count more than my realtor?

2946
02:22:00,975 --> 02:22:02,875
No, it's not what I just said at all. Okay.

2947
02:22:02,975 --> 02:22:05,315
I'm just saying that the board has that discretion

2948
02:22:05,315 --> 02:22:07,315
and the courts, higher courts support that,

2949
02:22:07,315 --> 02:22:10,995
that we have the discretion to dispute that information and,

2950
02:22:11,095 --> 02:22:13,075
and look at it as relevance or,

2951
02:22:13,135 --> 02:22:14,915
or the relevance of it. Okay.

2952
02:22:15,265 --> 02:22:19,395
Just what, what you said earlier almost felt like when

2953
02:22:19,395 --> 02:22:22,275
that, when the mention of two realtors came up,

2954
02:22:22,275 --> 02:22:25,325
or the realtor next door came up, if

2955
02:22:25,385 --> 02:22:26,565
Seemed like his realtors

2956
02:22:26,565 --> 02:22:27,845
Were more, it felt like it was like,

2957
02:22:28,265 --> 02:22:29,445
in my opinion, dismissive

2958
02:22:29,445 --> 02:22:30,925
Of one and not accepting of the other.

2959
02:22:30,955 --> 02:22:32,085
Yeah. It felt like there was an

2960
02:22:32,085 --> 02:22:33,645
acceptance from you on that. Yeah,

2961
02:22:33,785 --> 02:22:35,045
No, I understand This.

2962
02:22:35,045 --> 02:22:36,245
Why my wife and,

2963
02:22:36,385 --> 02:22:38,245
and berated her a little bit at

2964
02:22:38,245 --> 02:22:39,445
that night, if I remember right.

2965
02:22:39,445 --> 02:22:41,485
I was a little upset about that. You

2966
02:22:41,485 --> 02:22:43,925
Felt I berated her A little, a little bit.

2967
02:22:44,065 --> 02:22:46,085
Yep. Yes.

2968
02:22:46,265 --> 02:22:47,965
By saying, you know, do you know what,

2969
02:22:47,965 --> 02:22:49,045
do you know what an opinion is?

2970
02:22:49,075 --> 02:22:51,645
Just the, the way that you presented it and came at her.

2971
02:22:51,795 --> 02:22:53,565
Okay. Parade her. Okay. Yes.

2972
02:22:54,155 --> 02:22:57,925
Alright. And one other thing was, I did talk

2973
02:22:57,925 --> 02:23:00,205
to Ms. Owens about the lights

2974
02:23:03,505 --> 02:23:06,365
and she said, you know, it's hard to

2975
02:23:08,385 --> 02:23:11,165
do anything about it because it's after work hours. Right.

2976
02:23:11,465 --> 02:23:13,485
So, and you, you folks have heard that.

2977
02:23:13,955 --> 02:23:15,845
Just wanna reiterate, it's not the only one.

2978
02:23:16,305 --> 02:23:19,685
She said it to me too, that it's after work hours. I

2979
02:23:19,685 --> 02:23:21,005
Think that she isn't gonna look, I think there's

2980
02:23:21,005 --> 02:23:22,045
a learning curve everywhere.

2981
02:23:22,445 --> 02:23:25,285
I will share with you that this is not the first time

2982
02:23:25,285 --> 02:23:26,845
that I've had someone call

2983
02:23:27,745 --> 02:23:31,285
or complain, register a complaint about

2984
02:23:31,915 --> 02:23:33,445
something the board did,

2985
02:23:34,025 --> 02:23:35,725
but their intentions were that the,

2986
02:23:35,755 --> 02:23:39,285
that the code enforcement office was to sit outside

2987
02:23:39,285 --> 02:23:43,125
of these people's home every day to watch them.

2988
02:23:43,225 --> 02:23:46,605
And it's not quite the way it can work either. Sure.

2989
02:23:47,025 --> 02:23:49,325
So I think there's a little bit of give and take there.

2990
02:23:49,325 --> 02:23:51,325
Yeah. And, and I get it. And Mrs.

2991
02:23:51,385 --> 02:23:54,925
Owen's newer to the position, so I can't, I can't speak to

2992
02:23:54,925 --> 02:23:58,285
where she's at, but I think that's applicable here.

2993
02:23:58,435 --> 02:24:00,365
Sure is. And she, she knocked on the door,

2994
02:24:00,365 --> 02:24:02,765
she sent the letter, she called and ignored.

2995
02:24:03,705 --> 02:24:05,725
So I'm all set. I

2996
02:24:05,725 --> 02:24:07,005
Have I have one question for you guys.

2997
02:24:07,005 --> 02:24:08,605
Sure. Just to go back to the very beginning

2998
02:24:08,605 --> 02:24:11,565
with the lights coming in, I know this isn't technically,

2999
02:24:11,565 --> 02:24:12,965
you guys aren't next door neighbors, I get that.

3000
02:24:13,825 --> 02:24:15,245
But the dis the distance between you

3001
02:24:15,245 --> 02:24:17,605
and Mr. Foley is very similar.

3002
02:24:17,625 --> 02:24:18,765
200 feet kind of, in my opinion.

3003
02:24:19,465 --> 02:24:21,285
Do you know what the No, I'm probably a hundred feet

3004
02:24:21,285 --> 02:24:22,965
closer to that sign than Mr. Foley

3005
02:24:22,965 --> 02:24:23,845
Just kind of stating that

3006
02:24:23,845 --> 02:24:25,005
for where I'm going with the question.

3007
02:24:25,045 --> 02:24:26,685
I don't know, do you, the photos that were

3008
02:24:26,845 --> 02:24:29,285
provided of it looks like from a window of the sign, was

3009
02:24:29,285 --> 02:24:30,285
that from your guys' house?

3010
02:24:30,505 --> 02:24:31,805
Do you know? Or was that like from Mr

3011
02:24:31,965 --> 02:24:33,405
I forgot our, I was in the ER all night

3012
02:24:33,405 --> 02:24:34,765
with my mother, so I forgot to

3013
02:24:34,845 --> 02:24:35,845
Grab the pictures.

3014
02:24:35,845 --> 02:24:37,325
So our, our, we forgot our pictures,

3015
02:24:37,325 --> 02:24:41,485
but our pictures are e are even brighter because

3016
02:24:41,485 --> 02:24:42,445
You're 150 feet closer,

3017
02:24:42,515 --> 02:24:44,165
even brighter from the ones I've seen. Okay. Yep.

3018
02:24:45,085 --> 02:24:47,885
I can swing by and and drop them off at any point.

3019
02:24:47,885 --> 02:24:49,245
There were good photos. I just wasn't sure if that,

3020
02:24:49,245 --> 02:24:50,605
if I was looking at it from your perspective

3021
02:24:50,905 --> 02:24:51,925
or I was looking at it from,

3022
02:24:52,685 --> 02:24:54,365
I didn't think we forgot ours. Thanks for asking.

3023
02:24:54,385 --> 02:24:56,165
That's okay. Sorry to bring that part up then.

3024
02:24:56,425 --> 02:24:57,845
I'm sorry to hear that your mother's been sick.

3025
02:24:58,015 --> 02:25:02,925
Thank you. Okay. All set then, Mr. You all set? Mr.

3026
02:25:02,955 --> 02:25:06,565
Trip? Okay folks. Thank you. Thank you. Anybody else?

3027
02:25:08,085 --> 02:25:08,205
I,

3028
02:25:20,245 --> 02:25:22,225
You look like you got a bit of a gimp there.

3029
02:25:22,445 --> 02:25:25,005
What's that? I said you look like you have a bit of a gimp.

3030
02:25:25,635 --> 02:25:29,765
Yeah. Bad knees. Tom, give us your name.

3031
02:25:30,195 --> 02:25:32,325
Yeah, Tom Cardin. Two Cunningham Drive.

3032
02:25:32,605 --> 02:25:34,045
I, I am not a direct toBut.

3033
02:25:34,205 --> 02:25:35,725
I live about a mile or so down the road.

3034
02:25:35,905 --> 02:25:40,085
I'm assuming it's okay for me to speak my,

3035
02:25:41,085 --> 02:25:43,805
I have to say a lot of the stuff that, a lot

3036
02:25:43,805 --> 02:25:44,805
of the questions I have and a lot

3037
02:25:44,805 --> 02:25:46,245
of things I was gonna say has already been covered.

3038
02:25:46,265 --> 02:25:48,285
So I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna repeat them,

3039
02:25:48,865 --> 02:25:52,765
but I, I do have a, a couple of questions at first was,

3040
02:25:52,905 --> 02:25:54,685
was there an order to take down

3041
02:25:54,705 --> 02:25:55,805
the present sign that's there?

3042
02:25:56,225 --> 02:25:59,485
The lon sign by the

3043
02:26:00,875 --> 02:26:01,875
Feel free Ms. Owen.

3044
02:26:02,145 --> 02:26:05,685
Huh? And I apologize if for speaking for you earlier.

3045
02:26:06,465 --> 02:26:08,725
So really that's not pertinent to the case that's

3046
02:26:08,725 --> 02:26:09,885
before the board this evening.

3047
02:26:10,155 --> 02:26:11,925
It's what? It's not pertinent

3048
02:26:11,925 --> 02:26:13,445
to the case that's before the board.

3049
02:26:13,445 --> 02:26:15,805
We've got a, a variance application this

3050
02:26:15,805 --> 02:26:16,805
Evening.

3051
02:26:16,805 --> 02:26:18,125
So, so taking the, taking the sign down

3052
02:26:18,145 --> 02:26:19,365
has nothing to do with what

3053
02:26:19,385 --> 02:26:21,405
That's an administrative item right now

3054
02:26:21,435 --> 02:26:23,125
that we are working through

3055
02:26:23,705 --> 02:26:25,165
on the direction of legal counsel.

3056
02:26:25,955 --> 02:26:28,845
Okay. Alright. That's cool. Okay.

3057
02:26:28,845 --> 02:26:32,005
That, I just do wanna say that I know one of the things

3058
02:26:32,005 --> 02:26:33,045
that was said tonight that

3059
02:26:33,955 --> 02:26:36,685
that Hampstead road is similar to the bypass.

3060
02:26:37,005 --> 02:26:38,525
I go by there four or five times a week

3061
02:26:38,525 --> 02:26:40,925
and I couldn't tell you there's nothing like the bypass.

3062
02:26:41,105 --> 02:26:42,405
So just wanted to say that.

3063
02:26:43,145 --> 02:26:46,845
And I too have noticed the signs, the lights on

3064
02:26:46,945 --> 02:26:50,525
as I've come down from, from here,

3065
02:26:50,525 --> 02:26:52,685
from town council meetings and I've seen it lit.

3066
02:26:52,805 --> 02:26:54,925
I probably at the point, I probably at

3067
02:26:54,925 --> 02:26:56,365
that point I should have complained about it,

3068
02:26:56,365 --> 02:26:58,685
but I didn't, I just wanted to for the record to know

3069
02:26:58,685 --> 02:27:01,045
that yes, I have seen it on, so

3070
02:27:01,645 --> 02:27:05,525
I do wanna talk about section 1 65 1 0 1 0.1.

3071
02:27:06,105 --> 02:27:07,365
I'm not gonna read the whole thing,

3072
02:27:07,425 --> 02:27:11,525
but it does say the sign shall not exceed 24 square feet in

3073
02:27:11,525 --> 02:27:16,085
the area and it does not say anything about pylon

3074
02:27:16,105 --> 02:27:17,685
or electronic message board.

3075
02:27:17,745 --> 02:27:21,205
So that's, that's the ordinance, you know, as it pertains

3076
02:27:21,265 --> 02:27:23,285
to signs in residential district.

3077
02:27:24,195 --> 02:27:27,445
Okay. So, you know, that's, that's one of the reasons that,

3078
02:27:27,445 --> 02:27:30,205
that I'm opposed to it, you know,

3079
02:27:30,225 --> 02:27:33,805
and I think the, the ordinance clearly wants

3080
02:27:33,805 --> 02:27:35,445
to limit the size and the scope

3081
02:27:35,705 --> 02:27:38,325
of signs in a residential neighborhood.

3082
02:27:39,145 --> 02:27:42,445
And, you know, I, I think that,

3083
02:27:44,245 --> 02:27:46,165
I think it's contrary to the, the spirit

3084
02:27:46,185 --> 02:27:49,005
of the ordinance if you do approve this, this lit sign,

3085
02:27:52,205 --> 02:27:54,605
I, I also would like to note that, you know,

3086
02:27:54,605 --> 02:27:56,085
meadow Meadowbrook stable

3087
02:27:56,345 --> 02:27:58,085
and Eddie saw, they both have signs

3088
02:27:58,085 --> 02:27:59,365
that, that go along there.

3089
02:27:59,515 --> 02:28:03,445
They're not lit. And so, you know,

3090
02:28:04,705 --> 02:28:06,525
you know, one of, one of my concerns, one

3091
02:28:06,525 --> 02:28:08,685
of my biggest concerns is the fact that those, that

3092
02:28:08,685 --> 02:28:11,605
that sign has been on all night.

3093
02:28:12,625 --> 02:28:17,565
And, you know, clearly the, you know, one of the, one

3094
02:28:17,565 --> 02:28:19,925
of the conditions when this board approved the sign was

3095
02:28:19,925 --> 02:28:21,540
that it had to be turned off at nine o'clock.

3096
02:28:21,665 --> 02:28:24,685
And, you know, the, the, the couple that was here

3097
02:28:24,685 --> 02:28:27,205
that spoke about it, I have a lot of empathy with them

3098
02:28:27,355 --> 02:28:28,965
with those lights shining in their house.

3099
02:28:29,065 --> 02:28:31,125
And I think that's, I think it's just, it's wrong.

3100
02:28:31,905 --> 02:28:36,365
And though I I don't think the,

3101
02:28:36,565 --> 02:28:38,045
I don't think the board should approve it.

3102
02:28:38,805 --> 02:28:41,845
I, I did like the two speakers

3103
02:28:41,845 --> 02:28:44,205
before that that gave suggestions about the sign

3104
02:28:44,205 --> 02:28:46,285
and, you know, certainly the, the business deserves

3105
02:28:46,285 --> 02:28:47,725
to have a sign there and, you know,

3106
02:28:47,725 --> 02:28:48,925
something that people can see.

3107
02:28:50,065 --> 02:28:54,165
I'm just opposed to a lit pile on sign. Okay. Any questions?

3108
02:28:54,825 --> 02:28:56,605
Any questions from anybody? Thank you.

3109
02:28:57,075 --> 02:28:58,205
That Help? No, thank.

3110
02:28:59,035 --> 02:29:00,925
Okay. Alright. Thank you. Thank you Tom.

3111
02:29:00,925 --> 02:29:05,125
Have a good evening. Anybody else, folks,

3112
02:29:05,125 --> 02:29:06,285
your turn to come back up?

3113
02:29:12,175 --> 02:29:13,525
Thank you very much Mr. Chair.

3114
02:29:14,765 --> 02:29:17,525
I just, I guess one global point I'll make quickly is that,

3115
02:29:17,545 --> 02:29:20,045
you know, hearing a lot about what happened last June,

3116
02:29:20,045 --> 02:29:22,485
but this is a new application so I think I'd just like to,

3117
02:29:22,625 --> 02:29:26,365
you know, state that as far as the lighting goes, Mr.

3118
02:29:26,395 --> 02:29:28,405
Corbett, I think you, you made a point at one point,

3119
02:29:29,145 --> 02:29:31,565
but geez, was it about the reader board

3120
02:29:31,565 --> 02:29:32,605
or was it about the lights?

3121
02:29:32,905 --> 02:29:34,365
My client was under the impression

3122
02:29:34,365 --> 02:29:35,645
that it was about the reader board.

3123
02:29:35,645 --> 02:29:37,125
So that's what he was turning off at night.

3124
02:29:37,475 --> 02:29:38,485
I'll go right on the record

3125
02:29:38,545 --> 02:29:40,245
and say right now we'll turn it off at night.

3126
02:29:40,925 --> 02:29:43,165
What's going on right now is that the lights are hooked up

3127
02:29:43,165 --> 02:29:44,245
to his emergency lighting.

3128
02:29:44,585 --> 02:29:46,045
So he just needs to get a tech out there

3129
02:29:46,105 --> 02:29:48,725
to put in a new switch and, and he'll have it off at night.

3130
02:29:48,845 --> 02:29:51,165
I mean, we're not gonna, you know, kick up a fuss about

3131
02:29:51,165 --> 02:29:53,245
that as far as code goes.

3132
02:29:53,655 --> 02:29:57,005
We're gonna deal with, with, with code enforcement as well.

3133
02:29:58,025 --> 02:29:59,365
But we wanted to see how we did.

3134
02:30:00,245 --> 02:30:02,085
'cause if we were able to legitimize it then

3135
02:30:02,505 --> 02:30:03,445
it wouldn't, wouldn't it be an

3136
02:30:03,445 --> 02:30:06,045
issue? Did you have anything you wanted?

3137
02:30:06,235 --> 02:30:08,245
Yeah, just to speak to the lighting, I know that's been a,

3138
02:30:08,325 --> 02:30:10,085
a huge point that's gone back and forth

3139
02:30:10,105 --> 02:30:13,165
and I've been unfortunately painted, like I'm a,

3140
02:30:13,245 --> 02:30:15,165
a guy shining, you know, shining lights.

3141
02:30:15,245 --> 02:30:16,725
I go down there and turn 'em on

3142
02:30:16,725 --> 02:30:18,485
and I, I, I don't like hearing that.

3143
02:30:18,485 --> 02:30:20,885
Obviously, you know, this process has been not an,

3144
02:30:20,945 --> 02:30:23,685
not an easy process for me as it has been

3145
02:30:23,685 --> 02:30:24,925
for the, the abutters as well.

3146
02:30:25,905 --> 02:30:27,925
You know, I got approval for the sign, I got approval

3147
02:30:27,925 --> 02:30:29,605
for the, for the reader board and so forth.

3148
02:30:29,605 --> 02:30:33,485
And it went in just to speak to the lighting as it sits

3149
02:30:33,485 --> 02:30:35,005
so we can all kind of understand

3150
02:30:35,065 --> 02:30:36,365
what's going on with this lighting.

3151
02:30:37,145 --> 02:30:39,685
The power was tied in from my parking lot lights,

3152
02:30:40,015 --> 02:30:42,365
which is my emergency lighting for the, to keep the,

3153
02:30:42,365 --> 02:30:43,405
the place safe at night.

3154
02:30:44,705 --> 02:30:48,565
The reader board was the brain of that whole sign.

3155
02:30:48,865 --> 02:30:51,645
It was to go on at exactly a dusk, not

3156
02:30:51,645 --> 02:30:54,285
before it was to go off at exactly a time

3157
02:30:54,285 --> 02:30:55,525
that was set at the reader board.

3158
02:30:55,545 --> 02:30:57,605
The reader board was to be turned was

3159
02:30:57,605 --> 02:31:00,125
to only change every five minutes was a concession.

3160
02:31:00,125 --> 02:31:02,485
If you remember back, if you do, that was what,

3161
02:31:02,485 --> 02:31:03,525
what we, what we had said.

3162
02:31:03,945 --> 02:31:07,245
So the reader board is the brain of that sign's operation.

3163
02:31:07,385 --> 02:31:11,325
So as soon as rulings came down, things came my way,

3164
02:31:11,325 --> 02:31:14,765
which was only one thing I've received from the town.

3165
02:31:14,945 --> 02:31:19,485
No calls, no emails, no no letters, no visits

3166
02:31:19,835 --> 02:31:23,565
that I'm, I I'm aware of Miss I I'm happy to re she's happy

3167
02:31:23,565 --> 02:31:25,045
to rebut this and, and talk about it.

3168
02:31:25,205 --> 02:31:26,645
I know it has nothing to do with this case,

3169
02:31:27,025 --> 02:31:28,845
but I have not received any of that.

3170
02:31:29,325 --> 02:31:31,165
I have received the letter from, from the,

3171
02:31:31,785 --> 02:31:36,165
the town stating the, stating the ruling by the court.

3172
02:31:36,365 --> 02:31:38,045
I immediately turned it over to my counsel

3173
02:31:38,145 --> 02:31:40,565
and they've dealt with, with this from this standpoint.

3174
02:31:41,465 --> 02:31:44,805
But the brains of that, that electronic reader board was

3175
02:31:44,825 --> 02:31:47,365
to do all of what we're talking about to the sign,

3176
02:31:47,675 --> 02:31:49,565
turn it on, turn it off and so forth.

3177
02:31:49,915 --> 02:31:51,965
Once that reader board was, was installed,

3178
02:31:52,235 --> 02:31:55,085
unfortunately very expensive, but was installed

3179
02:31:57,265 --> 02:31:58,445
and, and no one has said

3180
02:31:58,445 --> 02:32:00,925
otherwise when I get the ruling, I never turned the read

3181
02:32:00,925 --> 02:32:02,365
of board on it.

3182
02:32:02,365 --> 02:32:06,445
Never went on it, it, it, it never activated to do

3183
02:32:06,445 --> 02:32:09,285
what it was supposed to do for all of my, my signage

3184
02:32:09,285 --> 02:32:10,285
and everything I'm supposed to do there.

3185
02:32:11,525 --> 02:32:15,965
I did get a certified letter yesterday from the Abutters

3186
02:32:16,395 --> 02:32:18,165
stating about the yesterday day

3187
02:32:18,165 --> 02:32:22,085
before about the lighting supposed to come off.

3188
02:32:22,325 --> 02:32:23,405
I can't be back through.

3189
02:32:23,565 --> 02:32:26,925
I looked, I saw that I can't physically turn it off.

3190
02:32:27,115 --> 02:32:28,965
It's not something I can just go turn off.

3191
02:32:29,225 --> 02:32:31,605
My electrician is coming tomorrow to disconnect the sign

3192
02:32:31,605 --> 02:32:32,965
until it gets settled.

3193
02:32:33,435 --> 02:32:36,365
It's the only way I physically can do it to get it off

3194
02:32:36,365 --> 02:32:37,445
of my parking lot lights

3195
02:32:37,665 --> 02:32:39,765
and I'm not gonna jeopardize the safety

3196
02:32:39,865 --> 02:32:41,845
of people coming in and out at night.

3197
02:32:42,905 --> 02:32:45,245
So everything that was just stated about, you know,

3198
02:32:45,475 --> 02:32:46,805
what I've done and what I haven't done,

3199
02:32:46,965 --> 02:32:49,405
I I never turned on the electronic reader board

3200
02:32:49,405 --> 02:32:52,005
because I know it was a, a huge point of contention.

3201
02:32:52,165 --> 02:32:54,285
Although I got the approval for it, it never went on.

3202
02:32:54,305 --> 02:32:55,885
Not one person has said anything about that.

3203
02:32:56,045 --> 02:32:58,485
I did not do that. As far as the signs on the building,

3204
02:32:58,645 --> 02:32:59,805
I think they're allowed to be on,

3205
02:33:00,205 --> 02:33:02,845
I have no problem shutting them off at, at the hours.

3206
02:33:03,125 --> 02:33:05,805
I no issue with that. I can put it on a time clock.

3207
02:33:05,885 --> 02:33:06,885
I have my electrician come in

3208
02:33:06,885 --> 02:33:08,445
and do that as far as the,

3209
02:33:09,185 --> 02:33:11,045
the lights stood are pointing up in the air.

3210
02:33:11,305 --> 02:33:13,165
The spotlights, they, they were preexisting.

3211
02:33:13,365 --> 02:33:15,645
I I I think they must come on with the parking lot lights.

3212
02:33:15,745 --> 02:33:17,645
I'm not even sure I didn't install 'em.

3213
02:33:17,645 --> 02:33:18,685
I think they were part of the church.

3214
02:33:19,725 --> 02:33:20,845
I don't care if they're on either.

3215
02:33:20,865 --> 02:33:22,445
We can take those so I can remove 'em.

3216
02:33:22,445 --> 02:33:24,485
I don't, it's probably cost me a ton

3217
02:33:24,485 --> 02:33:26,365
of money at night just having spotlights on all night.

3218
02:33:26,405 --> 02:33:28,765
I I don't care about that. Happy to concede that

3219
02:33:30,005 --> 02:33:32,725
Probably if you haven't dis disconnected permanently,

3220
02:33:32,865 --> 02:33:34,005
the savings and electric.

3221
02:33:34,005 --> 02:33:35,605
That's what I mean. I'm fine with it. I could kill us.

3222
02:33:35,715 --> 02:33:38,365
They don't do me any good. I no problem whatsoever.

3223
02:33:38,365 --> 02:33:40,245
Well, you have solar panels to power those. Right.

3224
02:33:40,245 --> 02:33:41,645
There you go. Yeah, exactly right.

3225
02:33:43,305 --> 02:33:45,285
And one other point I'll just make, you know,

3226
02:33:45,405 --> 02:33:47,565
I heard a lot about other signs being, oh,

3227
02:33:47,825 --> 02:33:49,925
the ordinance is 24 feet, 24 feet.

3228
02:33:50,135 --> 02:33:51,925
Again, we're here for a variance from the ordinance.

3229
02:33:51,925 --> 02:33:54,885
But if you read that ordinance, the 24 feet is specific to

3230
02:33:55,605 --> 02:33:58,325
a, a sign naming, a residential development.

3231
02:33:58,945 --> 02:34:02,365
So it's wouldn't even really apply even if we were doing a

3232
02:34:02,365 --> 02:34:04,005
24 square foot sign.

3233
02:34:04,065 --> 02:34:06,245
So, and that's all we have

3234
02:34:06,245 --> 02:34:08,325
unless you folks have more questions for us.

3235
02:34:08,445 --> 02:34:11,085
I think we'll otherwise defer to statements on the record

3236
02:34:11,105 --> 02:34:12,485
and pleadings and all that good stuff.

3237
02:34:13,395 --> 02:34:15,565
What if you were to have no electricity

3238
02:34:15,625 --> 02:34:16,685
on this sign at all?

3239
02:34:18,565 --> 02:34:19,565
Does that work for you?

3240
02:34:21,895 --> 02:34:23,035
No, not really. It doesn't.

3241
02:34:23,105 --> 02:34:25,635
It's, it's, it, it hurts what I'm trying to do

3242
02:34:25,635 --> 02:34:27,835
because my business that I'm trying

3243
02:34:27,835 --> 02:34:30,515
to have there is also running in the evening.

3244
02:34:31,015 --> 02:34:35,435
And a lot of it is over the wintertime, which is more

3245
02:34:35,835 --> 02:34:36,835
Baseball, more Dark.

3246
02:34:36,875 --> 02:34:38,275
I mean it's, it's darker longer.

3247
02:34:39,295 --> 02:34:40,835
During that time, my intention

3248
02:34:41,335 --> 02:34:44,195
and now I'm gonna have to, I talked to my electrician,

3249
02:34:44,195 --> 02:34:45,795
I'm gonna have to come up with some creative way to do it.

3250
02:34:45,915 --> 02:34:50,555
I, I don't know, run all new power out there, I guess is to

3251
02:34:51,225 --> 02:34:52,715
have it go on at dusk

3252
02:34:52,935 --> 02:34:56,555
and go off at our business hours, which was in the record.

3253
02:34:56,755 --> 02:34:57,755
I, it was nine o'clock.

3254
02:34:58,765 --> 02:35:01,275
Again, I, I didn't have the brain to do that with

3255
02:35:01,275 --> 02:35:02,315
that, with that reader board.

3256
02:35:02,315 --> 02:35:04,275
And I, I guess I just, I missed it on. Yeah.

3257
02:35:04,795 --> 02:35:06,195
Interesting. Would the intention be,

3258
02:35:06,215 --> 02:35:08,315
if you have the electrician come out, he's able

3259
02:35:08,315 --> 02:35:11,435
to rewire it, set the timer that when the,

3260
02:35:11,435 --> 02:35:14,435
basically when the, the school, the athletic center,

3261
02:35:14,915 --> 02:35:17,115
the nursery closes that'll go off when you

3262
02:35:17,245 --> 02:35:18,245
Power?

3263
02:35:18,245 --> 02:35:18,595
That's correct. Correct.

3264
02:35:19,455 --> 02:35:22,035
Is it, and I know this gets to a dangerous slope,

3265
02:35:22,035 --> 02:35:23,195
so Mr. Perkins, correct me,

3266
02:35:23,215 --> 02:35:24,675
is it possible when the electrician comes out,

3267
02:35:24,675 --> 02:35:26,475
if they can conduct any type of lumen test

3268
02:35:26,535 --> 02:35:28,395
or see if they can lower the

3269
02:35:28,395 --> 02:35:29,555
lumen at all? Like on the electronic

3270
02:35:29,555 --> 02:35:30,555
Board?

3271
02:35:30,595 --> 02:35:32,955
I, I, I don't know. I'm not an electrician.

3272
02:35:33,195 --> 02:35:35,435
I don't know the answer to that. What I, all I know about

3273
02:35:35,435 --> 02:35:38,635
that is, is I can defer back to the sign company

3274
02:35:38,705 --> 02:35:40,355
that gave at the time,

3275
02:35:41,055 --> 02:35:45,075
and it's probably in your original packet, if we were

3276
02:35:45,075 --> 02:35:49,875
to pull it out, the sign company gave the lumens in the,

3277
02:35:50,015 --> 02:35:54,155
the, the brightness off of that sign, how far it projected.

3278
02:35:54,715 --> 02:35:55,795
I know you guys reviewed that.

3279
02:35:55,855 --> 02:35:58,075
You looked at it and went over that again.

3280
02:35:58,075 --> 02:35:59,915
It was done by someone that's smarter than I am.

3281
02:36:00,035 --> 02:36:01,195
I, I don't know the answer to that.

3282
02:36:01,255 --> 02:36:02,755
I'm sure there's someone that can do it and,

3283
02:36:02,755 --> 02:36:04,075
And, and I, I think I would say to that,

3284
02:36:04,115 --> 02:36:06,675
I think planning must have reviewed that when you went

3285
02:36:06,675 --> 02:36:08,555
through planning for the sign.

3286
02:36:09,735 --> 02:36:10,775
I don't know. I don't Think

3287
02:36:10,775 --> 02:36:11,815
that was, yeah, I think it was just,

3288
02:36:13,405 --> 02:36:18,055
Well I think the, the focus on the lumens was, was

3289
02:36:18,155 --> 02:36:20,015
to the electronic messaging sign.

3290
02:36:20,015 --> 02:36:21,615
That was the, that was believe, so

3291
02:36:21,615 --> 02:36:22,815
that was the primary focus of

3292
02:36:23,325 --> 02:36:24,325
Okay.

3293
02:36:24,325 --> 02:36:26,695
Of the discussion and why that that was tabled

3294
02:36:26,695 --> 02:36:30,615
to a second evening that two parties came back

3295
02:36:30,765 --> 02:36:34,615
with their own commentary about one from Texas,

3296
02:36:34,835 --> 02:36:35,895
one from Canada I think.

3297
02:36:35,895 --> 02:36:40,055
Yeah, Toronto. And so you are correct in that,

3298
02:36:40,245 --> 02:36:41,895
that was in regards to that.

3299
02:36:42,475 --> 02:36:46,175
But I think overall what this board was looking

3300
02:36:46,395 --> 02:36:49,335
for was peace and quiet and,

3301
02:36:49,755 --> 02:36:53,375
and not have to have the contentiousness that it's,

3302
02:36:53,405 --> 02:36:58,335
that it's been, and with that, you know, in the, in the idea

3303
02:36:58,405 --> 02:37:01,015
that, that there's the granting of this

3304
02:37:01,075 --> 02:37:03,815
and the sensitivity of the neighbors to the lighting.

3305
02:37:04,655 --> 02:37:06,335
I, you know, it's almost one of those things

3306
02:37:06,335 --> 02:37:09,415
where it should be self-managed, where you understand

3307
02:37:09,645 --> 02:37:11,255
that it looks like a,

3308
02:37:11,355 --> 02:37:14,615
an air traffic control tower from the images I could see.

3309
02:37:15,425 --> 02:37:17,325
And that is, that is disturbing.

3310
02:37:17,605 --> 02:37:19,245
I mean there's some acceptances here

3311
02:37:19,265 --> 02:37:20,885
and the higher courts give those

3312
02:37:20,985 --> 02:37:22,365
for this board's discretion.

3313
02:37:22,945 --> 02:37:26,245
But when we're, but we're seeing the images of this

3314
02:37:26,345 --> 02:37:30,725
and understand the disturbance that makes it hard to

3315
02:37:31,465 --> 02:37:34,645
con convey a decision that's may be favorable to you.

3316
02:37:35,725 --> 02:37:39,405
I understand. I, the, the, just to speak more on the,

3317
02:37:39,465 --> 02:37:43,205
the lighting, which is clearly the, the concern here is the,

3318
02:37:43,635 --> 02:37:46,565
I've already taken steps to correct the signage.

3319
02:37:46,925 --> 02:37:48,405
I mean that, that has to remediate the signage.

3320
02:37:49,125 --> 02:37:52,405
I had that in place initially with the initial granting

3321
02:37:52,445 --> 02:37:54,205
of the variance with my, with the reader board.

3322
02:37:54,285 --> 02:37:57,325
I thought unfortunately we're here, we're we're going back.

3323
02:37:57,345 --> 02:38:00,685
So it wasn't able to be done as far

3324
02:38:00,685 --> 02:38:03,445
as the building is concerned, whether the I'm allowed

3325
02:38:03,445 --> 02:38:05,125
to keep the signs on all night or not.

3326
02:38:05,285 --> 02:38:06,325
I don't care if they're on all night.

3327
02:38:06,805 --> 02:38:08,965
I actually would, would, I don't want

3328
02:38:08,965 --> 02:38:11,605
to be contentious in any way with, with the abutters,

3329
02:38:11,605 --> 02:38:14,285
but I I don't think they're on much.

3330
02:38:14,565 --> 02:38:16,605
I they're supposed to be shut off every single night.

3331
02:38:17,505 --> 02:38:19,125
So I don't think they're on much, they were supposed

3332
02:38:19,125 --> 02:38:20,285
to be tied to that same brain,

3333
02:38:20,305 --> 02:38:22,165
but we just literally shut them off every night.

3334
02:38:22,225 --> 02:38:25,565
So if they were left on a few nights, that's possible.

3335
02:38:25,725 --> 02:38:27,445
I mean, but it's not, that's not the intention.

3336
02:38:27,745 --> 02:38:31,125
And as far as the, the spotlights, I could,

3337
02:38:31,525 --> 02:38:32,765
I take care of 'em tonight

3338
02:38:33,435 --> 02:38:35,045
Less Well, I'll, they were just there. Right.

3339
02:38:35,755 --> 02:38:37,205
I'll make a suggestion on the record

3340
02:38:37,345 --> 02:38:40,605
as I stare at my client for authority, you know,

3341
02:38:41,115 --> 02:38:43,365
that will turn all the lights on, on the property that

3342
02:38:43,365 --> 02:38:46,365
otherwise don't need to be on lawfully.

3343
02:38:46,485 --> 02:38:48,445
I do understand. I think there are some lights

3344
02:38:48,445 --> 02:38:49,525
that would have to be on.

3345
02:38:50,445 --> 02:38:52,605
I think commercial businesses need emergency lighting

3346
02:38:52,605 --> 02:38:53,765
that that's supposed to be lit.

3347
02:38:54,625 --> 02:38:57,205
That's my recollection from, from owning a law practice

3348
02:38:57,205 --> 02:38:58,885
with my father years ago in Milford,

3349
02:38:59,625 --> 02:39:01,285
we had these lights that had to be outside.

3350
02:39:01,325 --> 02:39:03,325
I mean, I don't know, I'm not a I'm not the expert on it,

3351
02:39:03,325 --> 02:39:06,925
but I think we can go on record as saying that, we'll,

3352
02:39:06,925 --> 02:39:08,005
we'll douse the lights at night.

3353
02:39:08,585 --> 02:39:09,605
I'm completely fine with that.

3354
02:39:10,025 --> 02:39:13,245
How difficult is it for you to rearrange

3355
02:39:13,245 --> 02:39:17,565
that sign the way it's established now that something Mr.

3356
02:39:17,695 --> 02:39:20,725
Tripp was directing his questions towards some

3357
02:39:20,725 --> 02:39:23,965
of the abutters, what their acceptance is.

3358
02:39:24,465 --> 02:39:26,285
You've got this towering sign,

3359
02:39:27,005 --> 02:39:30,125
I understand you've got 24 square feet per business.

3360
02:39:31,585 --> 02:39:32,845
You have any thoughts on,

3361
02:39:33,225 --> 02:39:36,885
on compromise there or do you something

3362
02:39:36,905 --> 02:39:38,445
I'm not, I'm not looking for that tonight.

3363
02:39:38,725 --> 02:39:42,485
I, you know, anything can be done.

3364
02:39:43,275 --> 02:39:47,125
Obviously, you know, I have the sign in place now.

3365
02:39:47,925 --> 02:39:51,045
I think that the sign, you know, looks nice.

3366
02:39:51,145 --> 02:39:53,245
Now that's a matter of opinion.

3367
02:39:53,795 --> 02:39:56,645
Whether it's mine or it's, or it's the abutters.

3368
02:39:57,505 --> 02:39:59,205
I'm told how nice the sign is by many.

3369
02:40:00,785 --> 02:40:03,245
So I, as of right now, that that is

3370
02:40:03,245 --> 02:40:04,765
what we're, we're looking for.

3371
02:40:05,525 --> 02:40:06,885
Anything can be done taking

3372
02:40:06,915 --> 02:40:08,525
that sign down at this point would be

3373
02:40:08,525 --> 02:40:09,685
the same way that was put up.

3374
02:40:09,805 --> 02:40:11,085
I mean, by crane.

3375
02:40:11,305 --> 02:40:14,045
And you know, I know no one cares about dollars

3376
02:40:14,185 --> 02:40:16,965
and I, I was on the zoning board completely understand.

3377
02:40:16,965 --> 02:40:19,485
But it's, it's a $65,000 sign.

3378
02:40:20,305 --> 02:40:22,685
You know, I've already lost 18,000 on the reader board.

3379
02:40:22,705 --> 02:40:26,165
So it would hurt clearly.

3380
02:40:26,515 --> 02:40:28,525
Yeah, I will say that acknowledging that

3381
02:40:28,525 --> 02:40:30,645
that's not a factor for this board to be worried about.

3382
02:40:31,285 --> 02:40:33,045
I will say that, circling back to some

3383
02:40:33,045 --> 02:40:35,485
of the earlier testimony we made about the size of the lot

3384
02:40:36,105 --> 02:40:38,965
versus the size of the sign and it being appropriate.

3385
02:40:39,145 --> 02:40:41,645
And I think that it probably won't be bothering folks

3386
02:40:41,665 --> 02:40:42,725
if it's turned off at night.

3387
02:40:43,355 --> 02:40:46,565
Okay. Alright. Anybody else have any questions, Mr.

3388
02:40:46,665 --> 02:40:48,805
Donlin? Anything follow up on? Yeah,

3389
02:40:50,385 --> 02:40:52,365
Do you, what, what is your normal business hours?

3390
02:40:54,785 --> 02:40:57,085
We are, we close at nine o'clock at night. Nine.

3391
02:40:57,085 --> 02:40:59,525
They vary openings time vary during, throughout the day,

3392
02:41:01,105 --> 02:41:02,965
But certainly not before like 4:00 AM

3393
02:41:03,865 --> 02:41:05,605
No, And just

3394
02:41:07,485 --> 02:41:09,205
I would be fine with, with, with,

3395
02:41:09,915 --> 02:41:13,005
with putting a actual time on it is nine o'clock.

3396
02:41:13,395 --> 02:41:15,885
Okay. I don't, it doesn't have to be at my close. It's just

3397
02:41:16,305 --> 02:41:17,305
For nine o'clock.

3398
02:41:17,305 --> 02:41:19,485
Sure. Probably easier for the automation as well.

3399
02:41:20,105 --> 02:41:22,885
Yes. So just for clarification,

3400
02:41:23,825 --> 02:41:28,005
did you seek approval for the use of the land prior

3401
02:41:28,025 --> 02:41:30,485
to the purchase of the land with the planning?

3402
02:41:30,585 --> 02:41:35,165
Yes. Yes. Yes. I assume as much. I just wanted to clarify.

3403
02:41:35,465 --> 02:41:36,465
Yep.

3404
02:41:38,105 --> 02:41:39,685
All set. Mr. Doman, that's all I got.

3405
02:41:39,825 --> 02:41:42,205
All right. Thank you Mr. Dietzel, you have anything? Nope.

3406
02:41:42,225 --> 02:41:45,525
All set. Thank you Mr. Trip. You all set?

3407
02:41:47,615 --> 02:41:50,505
Sure. Okay. Mr. Corbett as well.

3408
02:41:52,405 --> 02:41:54,025
I'm, I'm all set for tonight.

3409
02:41:56,425 --> 02:41:58,105
I, I dunno if it's the right time for this.

3410
02:41:58,265 --> 02:42:00,385
I would like a little more time to digest everything.

3411
02:42:01,135 --> 02:42:04,185
There's, it's murky on my end.

3412
02:42:04,305 --> 02:42:06,465
I think it was murky on the decision originally

3413
02:42:06,465 --> 02:42:09,505
between the signs, the electronic messaging and the pylon.

3414
02:42:09,505 --> 02:42:11,105
So I'd like a little bit more time to review that.

3415
02:42:11,525 --> 02:42:13,385
We got some of it read in from the abutters,

3416
02:42:13,385 --> 02:42:14,585
so I appreciate, but I just want,

3417
02:42:14,945 --> 02:42:16,745
I do wanna take a little bit of a deep dive between that

3418
02:42:16,745 --> 02:42:17,865
and the, in the video

3419
02:42:18,845 --> 02:42:20,905
and then from there I'd be happy

3420
02:42:20,905 --> 02:42:21,945
to kind of pick this up again.

3421
02:42:21,945 --> 02:42:23,745
Most likely next meeting. But I would like,

3422
02:42:24,805 --> 02:42:25,845
I would like a little bit more time.

3423
02:42:26,475 --> 02:42:29,245
Okay. Yeah, I think that's advisable

3424
02:42:29,245 --> 02:42:30,285
and I can support that.

3425
02:42:30,405 --> 02:42:34,045
I have some stuff I'd like to take a look at as well

3426
02:42:34,885 --> 02:42:35,885
relative to testimony.

3427
02:42:36,605 --> 02:42:41,525
A few folks have any other thoughts on this.

3428
02:42:42,065 --> 02:42:45,045
You certainly would have time to relay those

3429
02:42:45,105 --> 02:42:47,285
to code enforcement and Yeah,

3430
02:42:47,285 --> 02:42:48,645
We'll reach out, we'll reach out to code.

3431
02:42:49,195 --> 02:42:51,645
Yeah. Kind of suggestions through con questions.

3432
02:42:51,645 --> 02:42:53,005
Right? So you all set?

3433
02:42:53,705 --> 02:42:56,685
Can we get a copy of the minutes for that meeting

3434
02:42:57,395 --> 02:42:58,395
Last year?

3435
02:42:58,395 --> 02:43:01,045
June 5th. From the June 22nd? Yeah. Through 19th I think.

3436
02:43:02,265 --> 02:43:05,085
Yes we can. Anything else? Ms. Donlin? Anything you need?

3437
02:43:05,865 --> 02:43:06,965
I'm good Mr.

3438
02:43:07,065 --> 02:43:09,445
Dietle. You all set? All set, sir. Okay. Very good.

3439
02:43:10,805 --> 02:43:13,485
I think with that we'll take a motion and table this.

3440
02:43:13,705 --> 02:43:16,925
So moved. Thank you Mr. Tripp. Second Mr. Corbett seconds.

3441
02:43:17,065 --> 02:43:21,405
All in favor of that say aye. Aye. Aye. Any post hearing?

3442
02:43:21,475 --> 02:43:22,645
None folks,

3443
02:43:22,645 --> 02:43:24,925
we'll take this up at the next meeting, I think. Okay,

3444
02:43:24,925 --> 02:43:25,925
Thank you.

3445
02:43:25,925 --> 02:43:29,805
When is the next meeting? Just we are Christmas. Great.

3446
02:43:29,805 --> 02:43:31,245
Awesome. Are we, it's July. Are we back?

3447
02:43:31,245 --> 02:43:32,285
April or May, July weekend.

3448
02:43:33,025 --> 02:43:34,165
May 7th. May 7th.

3449
02:43:34,335 --> 02:43:36,485
We'll be back. May 7th. Thank you. Thank you.

3450
02:43:36,485 --> 02:43:38,245
The honorable board. Thank you for your time. Alright,

3451
02:43:38,245 --> 02:43:39,245
Have a good evening.

3452
02:43:42,025 --> 02:43:44,965
All right, next up is the,

3453
02:43:48,905 --> 02:43:50,685
oh, we have another other business.

3454
02:43:50,785 --> 02:43:52,645
New Hampshire Town and City publications

3455
02:43:52,835 --> 02:43:54,165
trip. Did you want that this morning? Yeah,

3456
02:43:54,165 --> 02:43:55,485
He also requested it ahead of time.

3457
02:43:55,485 --> 02:43:58,685
Alright. Did I want that? Yeah, why would I want it?

3458
02:43:58,845 --> 02:44:00,365
I don't know. You were all about it for some reason.

3459
02:44:00,465 --> 02:44:01,525
I'm pretty sure I recommend

3460
02:44:01,585 --> 02:44:03,605
or recollect that my gift to you.

3461
02:44:03,605 --> 02:44:06,085
That's when I was on conservation. We can,

3462
02:44:06,585 --> 02:44:07,585
Can we talk?

3463
02:44:07,585 --> 02:44:09,765
Alright, we have two piles of minutes.

3464
02:44:10,145 --> 02:44:12,725
We have for the last one, which was March 5th.

3465
02:44:14,385 --> 02:44:17,045
And I This is

3466
02:44:19,905 --> 02:44:23,165
ro You didn't have any amendments for that? No, I

3467
02:44:23,165 --> 02:44:24,165
Haven't.

3468
02:44:24,165 --> 02:44:27,125
All right. I don't, I I want to table the meeting,

3469
02:44:27,345 --> 02:44:28,965
the minutes for February 19th.

3470
02:44:29,225 --> 02:44:30,965
If we could do start with that please.

3471
02:44:32,085 --> 02:44:35,035
Table the 19th. Oh yeah. We need motion first.

3472
02:44:35,585 --> 02:44:37,195
I'll make a motion. We table the

3473
02:44:37,195 --> 02:44:38,355
minutes for February 19th.

3474
02:44:38,715 --> 02:44:43,475
I second. Very good. Mr. O. Biba first. Mr. Trip Second.

3475
02:44:44,095 --> 02:44:47,155
All in favor? Tabling those minutes. Say aye. Aye. Aye.

3476
02:44:48,005 --> 02:44:52,515
Those are, that's relevant to,

3477
02:44:58,665 --> 02:45:03,355
yeah, we tabled those, right? We just tabled

3478
02:45:03,355 --> 02:45:04,355
Those.

3479
02:45:04,355 --> 02:45:05,075
I think you just made that motion. Thank

3480
02:45:05,075 --> 02:45:06,075
You.

3481
02:45:06,075 --> 02:45:06,835
Alright. And or

3482
02:45:06,835 --> 02:45:07,955
Gaspar made the motion. Anyone second?

3483
02:45:08,095 --> 02:45:09,675
Yep. No, I think we're all set. Okay.

3484
02:45:09,875 --> 02:45:10,755
'cause I asked all in favor, right?

3485
02:45:10,755 --> 02:45:11,315
Sorry I didn't pay attention.

3486
02:45:11,535 --> 02:45:13,475
And March 5th I'm set.

3487
02:45:13,535 --> 02:45:17,075
We can approve unless somebody has amendments.

3488
02:45:17,355 --> 02:45:18,635
I wasn't here. I'm gonna sain from that one.

3489
02:45:20,125 --> 02:45:21,315
March 5th. Anybody?

3490
02:45:22,385 --> 02:45:25,995
I'll make a motion to accept the minutes of March 5th.

3491
02:45:26,435 --> 02:45:28,035
I have a second from the audience, please.

3492
02:45:28,575 --> 02:45:30,715
Second, Mr. Thank you.

3493
02:45:31,425 --> 02:45:33,715
Dani has the second. Oh, D got it.

3494
02:45:33,715 --> 02:45:35,315
Mr. Dani Got it. Sorry sir.

3495
02:45:37,225 --> 02:45:40,915
I'll, you're approving those minutes as as presented say.

3496
02:45:40,915 --> 02:45:43,315
Aye aye. Aye. Any post hearing? None. All right.

3497
02:45:44,445 --> 02:45:47,035
We're a month off before we see each other again.

3498
02:45:47,215 --> 02:45:49,115
So don't let loneliness set in.

3499
02:45:49,455 --> 02:45:51,915
And it's not kind of a, don't worry.

3500
02:45:53,885 --> 02:45:55,435
Other than that, we have no other business

3501
02:45:55,435 --> 02:45:56,715
before the board tonight.

3502
02:45:58,335 --> 02:46:00,675
So one case so far, Ms.

3503
02:46:00,735 --> 02:46:04,755
So plus one case plus the piling from tonight. Yep.

3504
02:46:04,755 --> 02:46:06,355
Correct. All right. Good enough.

3505
02:46:06,615 --> 02:46:11,125
And the request for Rehearing motion.

3506
02:46:11,945 --> 02:46:15,885
Say again? The rest request for rehearing that we tabled.

3507
02:46:15,885 --> 02:46:17,965
Oh, got tabled. And we're tabling that.

3508
02:46:18,165 --> 02:46:20,245
I, I wanna review the minutes for that,

3509
02:46:20,255 --> 02:46:23,365
which are significance to that February 20,

3510
02:46:24,845 --> 02:46:25,725
Whatever the timeline. Yeah,

3511
02:46:26,485 --> 02:46:27,845
February Meeting.

3512
02:46:27,845 --> 02:46:29,165
So we have that one. We had the,

3513
02:46:30,225 --> 02:46:32,045
we have this and we had the other kids.

3514
02:46:32,045 --> 02:46:34,365
Just those three. 'cause that one with the pool.

3515
02:46:34,685 --> 02:46:36,245
I lost John. It's just tabled, right? Yeah.

3516
02:46:36,245 --> 02:46:37,765
I don't think it's as bad as we're making it out today.

3517
02:46:38,285 --> 02:46:39,925
FFL license, Right?

3518
02:46:40,035 --> 02:46:41,965
Okay. And then this one. All right. Yep.

3519
02:46:42,235 --> 02:46:44,085
With that we can take, we can adjourn.

3520
02:46:44,085 --> 02:46:46,205
If somebody wants to help us find the door,

3521
02:46:47,515 --> 02:46:50,165
I'll make the motion with to take off leave.

3522
02:46:50,385 --> 02:46:51,385
Aye

3523
02:46:52,145 --> 02:46:53,145
Second.

3524
02:46:53,145 --> 02:46:54,965
Adjourn. Adjourn? Yep. Alright. Second. Good enough.

3525
02:46:55,055 --> 02:46:58,845
Craig Corvet makes the motion to adjourn. Second. Mr.

3526
02:46:59,035 --> 02:47:01,645
Dola makes a second. All in favor of adjournment, say aye.

3527
02:47:02,025 --> 02:47:04,645
Aye. Aye. Any opposed? We adjourned. Have a good night.