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Okay.

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Good evening ladies and gentlemen.

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Welcome to the zoning Board of Adjustment for May 7th, 2026.

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Please rise for the Pledge of Allegiance.

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Allegiance, lives of the United States of America,

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and two three Republic for which it stands.

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One Nation under God, individual liberty

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and justice for all.

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Okay, good evening everybody,

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and welcome to the zoning board room for the evening.

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And before we proceed, let's start

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by introducing our members as we're hosts for the evening.

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All the way to my far left, please. Anthony Henry Michael

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Donlin.

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A Richard Trip, I'd be Lynn Perkins. Acting chair

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Brent Ow. Jim Dietzel.

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Jason Ney. And all the way

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to the far right we have code enforcement.

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Carrie Owen with us and our clerk is Carrie Owen.

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She's in the back. Before we proceed,

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please shut off all cell phones.

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I, Eileen. I'm sorry, Eileen, what did I say? Carrie

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Owens?

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I did, I said, didn't I say your name afterwards?

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I was, oh, did I really? Oh, there it is.

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I hit my quota for names tonight.

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Everybody else is in trouble.

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Just other announcements,

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please shut off all your cell phones, iPhones,

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any electronic gadgets

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that could create distractions to the proceedings.

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These scheduled are scheduled to terminate at 10:00 PM

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and they are audio video recorded

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and it seems like I'm forgetting another thing there, but

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nonetheless, we can proceed.

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Case of an emergency.

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Oh yes. Thank you very much Mr. Dahlin. Case of emergency.

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That's the most important thing is getting

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everybody out of the building.

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So don't use the elevator and please wait at the stairs

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and someone will assist you and get you out of the building.

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So anyway, moving forward.

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First case up is

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case number 26 dash 1 0 5.

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As we have a lot of maneuvering in seats.

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Bear with me as I put some other things together

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to fill in for those who aren't with us right now.

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Case number 26 dash 1 0 5 is a motion

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for re-hearing tabled from April 2nd, 2026.

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We have Daniel and Jennifer Lan re

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requesting through their son

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No motion for rehearing.

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Mr. Trip, would you like to open with

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that on some information?

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Yes, I would. Okay.

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Mr. Phelan's, motion for rehearing

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pursuant to RSA 6 77 2,

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that's basically three points.

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The first point is Mr.

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Lan says the board authorized a second

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home business at the property.

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I took the time to took contact

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the code enforcement head to find out

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how many special exceptions Mr.

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Marian has, and she told me she had none,

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which means that the

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special exception that we

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authorized his is first

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and only, so that bullet is rebutted.

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The second point is that

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the firearm visit does not fall

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within any of the categories.

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The home business permitted

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the, this

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is the odd part about this whole discussion is that

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he only wanted to be permitted to have a business,

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but he was not going to actually run a business.

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And so I consider

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that will it rebutted to,

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It was pertaining to the FFL itself, correct?

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Yes. Okay, thank you.

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The final bullet was that

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the board exceeded its jurisdiction in attempting

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to regulate firearm discharge.

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Well, there's a, one of the things

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that the board does a lot is we set conditions

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that the applicant must follow in order to

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get his variance or or special exception approved.

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And Mr. Lan, well he is a lawyer, obviously,

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does not practice law in

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the great state of New Hampshire.

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I will read the,

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a zoning board of adjustment has the ability

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to attach conditions to any relief

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that is within the jurisdiction, which means that we,

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as a matter of practice set conditions that the

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applicant must comply with in order

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to have the variance and the basis for our being able

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to set conditions is

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Michael J. Robinson versus, oops, excuse me,

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Town of Hudson.

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The, the only condition is that the, the Condit, the

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conditions must be real relatable, reason, reasonable

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and relate to the spirit of the ordinance in question

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and the actual use of the land.

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So in, in addition to

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being able to, I don't know how many conditions we had on

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that, but I think there were several, one of which was

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that he was not going to

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fire any weapons at his house.

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Mr. LAN's con contention was that, that

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we cannot require Mr.

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Marin to comply with that.

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And the thing is, he has

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to comply if he wants to get approval

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of his special exception, if he decides that he wasn't,

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doesn't want to comply with the, the requirement

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that he not fire weapons

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at his house, then he won't get a special exception.

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So three contentions or,

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and I believe we have valid reasons

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for enforcing those. Very good. So,

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And Mr.

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Tripp, thank you. Did you find any other information that,

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that would justify rehearing in the failing application?

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No. Okay. Very good.

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Just for the record, I've appointed Mr.

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Ani to this case and Mr. Donlin as well. Mr.

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Donlin, do you find any new information in

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this beyond what Mr.

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Tripp has specified worth

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that would suggest we should rehear this case

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Beyond what Mr.

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Tripp stated? No, sir.

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Okay. Anything else there that's important to you?

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No, sir. Okay. Mr.

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Ani, anything that would stand out for you at this time

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regarding this case to be reheard?

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No, I think Mr. Tripp explained it perfectly. Thank

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You.

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Very good. Mr. Dietzel, any thoughts?

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Y yeah, I'm gonna differ from Mr.

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Trip on a, on a couple of matters here

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on 0.1 about whether there are

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two home businesses operating.

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That was one I really wrestled with

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and I tried to find a legal definition

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or case law that actually defines what a home business is.

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We have granted in the past an except special exemption, say

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for a hairdresser where the woman actually wanted

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to set up chairs in her home

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and do hairstyling there

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and run the business out of her home.

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She could have easily,

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and at the time she did, she was moving the business,

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have a business downtown

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and just do administrative duties in an office in her home.

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Is that a home business?

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Likewise, is

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what this applicant proposing is

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that a home business when he says

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that he's not gonna engage in sales, whether

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basically he's doing it just to get a license.

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And if the answer is yes, then I think

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whether or not the special exemption is on the construction

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business or not, I think the construction business is more

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of a home business than what he's proposing

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with the gun business.

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So that would be two home businesses.

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I don't see why it can be

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considered not a home business just

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because he didn't get a special exemption

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that he's required to.

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So I think that either there are two home businesses

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on the property or there are no home

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businesses on the property.

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If there are no home businesses on the property,

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why are we giving him a special exemption other than

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to allow him to get the gun permit?

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The gun permit is really not

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a con a zoning concern per se.

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So that's, that's where I, I wrestle with, with that,

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whether or not that's an error on the part of the board

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or a matter of my opinion.

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Differing. Well, that's debatable too.

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I'm gonna say that we're, we made that board made an error

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and that there would be two

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businesses operating on that property. Second,

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So, so Mr.

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Okay. Dietzel,

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I just wondered if you found anything here worthwhile to,

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that has been presented to rehear this case,

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if you can modify that a little bit or if you

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See some points.

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Yes. I, I found that this, this memo presenting the, the,

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the five or the three objections in addition,

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the, the, the more of the explanation

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and my research, I,

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that's what changed my mind.

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I believe that his, his arguments are convincing that,

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that we made an erroneous determination.

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I'm gonna go down a different shoot here, Ms.

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Oan, how do you typically establish a home use business?

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So that's a, it's,

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that's a great question.

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It is a, it is a fine line definition.

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So registering, simply registering a home business at a,

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at a, at a residence without actually having operations,

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whether it's meeting with clients at that residence

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or conducting business deals, that is a, you know,

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that is a legitimate business.

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If you're working from home and you have a home office

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and you're set up to be able to work remotely,

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that's not necessarily a home business.

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If you're parking a work vehicle,

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'cause you're using it as transportation to

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and from your residence to your place of business,

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then I don't classify that as a home business.

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It's more of a parking space

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and I, it it, if we start seeing

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commercial vehicles or lettered vehicles on a property,

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one vehicle, okay, if it starts expanding beyond that,

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then we start questioning what that operation may be.

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Often whether or not you have clients coming in

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and out of the property often applies to like dental

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or hairdressers or,

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or clergymen or attorneys.

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And understanding in that light that you've sculpted

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that if it's somebody with that's just commuting and,

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and using it in

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and out, they're not processing,

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that's typically not someplace that you categorize as a,

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as a home used business, right?

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That's correct in this regard

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and this board going in a little deeper into the weeds than

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we normally do in these cases,

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but often what we also find is that

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that shipping and receiving

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and whatnot can be a, a, a tip off.

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The last point for me is that the applicant indicates

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that he's receiving his mail outside of the state

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and outside of that address.

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So that's where I rebut there in this case.

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We have a motion to read.

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Anybody have any last comments before we move forward? Ms.

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Dietzel? You all satisfied?

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Well, the last point is whether

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or not it meets the definition of an allowed

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special exemption use

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and I just don't see where

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under the enumerated allowable businesses

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where firearm sales falls.

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It's not a clergy, it's not a doctor's office, it's not it,

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I don't see where it falls in those categories.

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Okay. Y'all set? I I I guess yeah,

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I mean if you have any more you wanna say go ahead, but I

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Well, I, I, I'll, I do rebut a couple of the,

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I don't believe that we denied the council his ability

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to represent his client.

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In fact, you, Mr. Chair questioned him about his

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authority to represent, he satisfied your question.

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You allowed him to represent the applicants remotely.

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So we certainly are allowing him

264
00:15:22,345 --> 00:15:23,685
to practice before this board.

265
00:15:23,705 --> 00:15:28,205
So I I rebut that and as far as he's asserting that

266
00:15:30,895 --> 00:15:33,565
we're suggesting that the applicant could

267
00:15:33,715 --> 00:15:38,485
otherwise discharge firearms, I I don't see,

268
00:15:39,005 --> 00:15:42,205
I don't read the ruling that way, so I'm, I'm, I wouldn't,

269
00:15:43,605 --> 00:15:46,125
I would refute that assertion

270
00:15:48,055 --> 00:15:49,205
we're allowed as Mr.

271
00:15:49,275 --> 00:15:50,645
Chip put out to put on,

272
00:15:51,025 --> 00:15:53,285
put reasonable restrictions on the operation

273
00:15:53,285 --> 00:15:57,565
of the property in order to minimize well noise,

274
00:15:57,945 --> 00:16:01,165
safety, odors, pollution and so forth.

275
00:16:01,225 --> 00:16:02,965
So I think our restriction is, is fine.

276
00:16:03,225 --> 00:16:05,005
So it's those two points, having two,

277
00:16:05,465 --> 00:16:07,365
two home businesses on one property

278
00:16:07,705 --> 00:16:10,405
and the fact that it doesn't meet the definition

279
00:16:10,545 --> 00:16:12,925
of a approved use.

280
00:16:13,285 --> 00:16:14,445
Approved use. Okay. Thank

281
00:16:14,445 --> 00:16:15,445
You Mr.

282
00:16:15,445 --> 00:16:16,085
Chairman. You good now? Yes. Thank you.

283
00:16:16,105 --> 00:16:17,485
All right, very good. Thank you very much.

284
00:16:19,715 --> 00:16:21,485
That being said, we've heard from all five

285
00:16:21,485 --> 00:16:23,125
members deciding on this.

286
00:16:23,155 --> 00:16:24,605
With that we can take a motion.

287
00:16:26,385 --> 00:16:28,085
We don't need to go into deliberation,

288
00:16:28,265 --> 00:16:30,325
but I could take a motion to

289
00:16:32,315 --> 00:16:33,925
move forward for a vote on this.

290
00:16:35,435 --> 00:16:38,845
Okay, Ms. Chair, I, I I move that

291
00:16:39,505 --> 00:16:43,965
we approve the for a vote. The

292
00:16:43,965 --> 00:16:44,965
What?

293
00:16:44,965 --> 00:16:45,725
We make a motion for a vote.

294
00:16:46,305 --> 00:16:49,685
Oh, alright. What is the motion?

295
00:16:49,955 --> 00:16:52,285
Well, we need to read the motion, so, okay.

296
00:16:52,865 --> 00:16:55,965
In understanding that when we do special request

297
00:16:55,985 --> 00:16:57,525
for rehearing, it breaks us out

298
00:16:57,525 --> 00:17:00,565
and we've already deliberated out loud here.

299
00:17:00,745 --> 00:17:02,885
So if you'd like Mr.

300
00:17:02,915 --> 00:17:04,205
Trip, would you like to read the motion?

301
00:17:04,665 --> 00:17:08,005
Aye, fair enough. I make a motion on case number 26 dash

302
00:17:08,105 --> 00:17:09,165
1 0 5 for Daniel

303
00:17:09,265 --> 00:17:12,325
and Jennifer Phelan to grant the request for rehearing

304
00:17:12,585 --> 00:17:16,125
for the January 19th, 2026 decision by the town

305
00:17:16,125 --> 00:17:19,365
of Jerry Zoning Board of Adjustment granting the request

306
00:17:19,605 --> 00:17:21,085
for a variance to permit a type

307
00:17:21,665 --> 00:17:25,285
oh one federal firearms license at the residence

308
00:17:25,285 --> 00:17:27,445
of 38 Ves Drive

309
00:17:28,755 --> 00:17:31,205
That motion's made by Mr. Trip. I have a second,

310
00:17:31,745 --> 00:17:32,745
Second.

311
00:17:32,745 --> 00:17:34,245
Mr. Donlin has a second on that.

312
00:17:35,145 --> 00:17:37,245
Mr. Chair, may I Yes, you may

313
00:17:37,545 --> 00:17:39,085
Ask a question just

314
00:17:39,525 --> 00:17:42,245
'cause this one's a little bit different than normal.

315
00:17:42,505 --> 00:17:47,085
Yep. So a, a no vote for this would be to deny the request

316
00:17:47,085 --> 00:17:48,565
for hearing and a yes vote would be

317
00:17:49,315 --> 00:17:51,125
that you would request a rehearing,

318
00:17:51,125 --> 00:17:52,125
Correct?

319
00:17:52,125 --> 00:17:55,485
That is correct. Yep. Yes.

320
00:17:55,535 --> 00:18:00,325
Again, yes means you motion for approve for a rehearing

321
00:18:00,325 --> 00:18:01,965
and no means you deny that.

322
00:18:03,025 --> 00:18:04,765
All right, Mr. Donlin, you wanna lead forward?

323
00:18:05,725 --> 00:18:08,805
I vote no. Mr. Dietzel,

324
00:18:09,745 --> 00:18:12,885
I'm gonna vote yes because not

325
00:18:12,885 --> 00:18:15,885
because of the two businesses on the property,

326
00:18:15,885 --> 00:18:18,445
because I believe that was in a, a matter of opinion

327
00:18:18,505 --> 00:18:21,125
of this board and I don't, I can't say conclusively

328
00:18:21,125 --> 00:18:22,165
that that would be an error.

329
00:18:22,955 --> 00:18:25,165
However, I am gonna vote yes

330
00:18:25,165 --> 00:18:28,485
because I believe this board made an error in its

331
00:18:28,485 --> 00:18:32,325
interpretation of allowed uses Permi permissible uses

332
00:18:32,345 --> 00:18:33,805
as a special exception.

333
00:18:33,955 --> 00:18:37,925
Very good. Thank you. Mr. Trip?

334
00:18:39,225 --> 00:18:44,085
I'm gonna vote no because I believe that the three reasons

335
00:18:44,315 --> 00:18:47,965
that Attorney Lan presented to

336
00:18:49,475 --> 00:18:52,965
justify having a re-hearing were rebutted by the board

337
00:18:53,345 --> 00:18:55,565
and that there's,

338
00:18:55,865 --> 00:18:58,205
and subsequently there's no reason to have a re-hearing.

339
00:18:58,275 --> 00:19:02,525
Very good. Mr. Dani? I vote no o

340
00:19:04,705 --> 00:19:06,005
For reason, specified for

341
00:19:06,005 --> 00:19:09,845
Reason specified that I think we,

342
00:19:11,085 --> 00:19:14,325
I think that we disputed all those,

343
00:19:16,265 --> 00:19:17,445
all about all of his comments.

344
00:19:17,955 --> 00:19:18,955
Okay.

345
00:19:22,135 --> 00:19:23,765
Chair votes No on that as well.

346
00:19:23,765 --> 00:19:27,085
Making a four to one decision to deny

347
00:19:27,085 --> 00:19:31,005
that the rehearing request from the LAN's son,

348
00:19:31,745 --> 00:19:33,085
and I think Mr.

349
00:19:34,875 --> 00:19:37,885
Dietzel, you made a a point there to emphasized a point,

350
00:19:37,885 --> 00:19:40,565
which was that we established that he could speak

351
00:19:40,705 --> 00:19:45,365
as their son even though he didn't have certification to

352
00:19:45,425 --> 00:19:47,125
or authorization to do that.

353
00:19:47,185 --> 00:19:49,245
But we gave him his, his time to speak.

354
00:19:49,385 --> 00:19:53,205
So at any rate, I concur with the comments that Mr.

355
00:19:53,275 --> 00:19:57,005
Trip laid out as well as I rebutted Mr.

356
00:19:57,425 --> 00:19:59,565
Diet's comments regarding whether

357
00:19:59,565 --> 00:20:02,125
or not there was already an established use

358
00:20:02,225 --> 00:20:03,725
as a business going on there.

359
00:20:04,625 --> 00:20:08,885
And so the debate becomes the, the authorized use

360
00:20:08,955 --> 00:20:11,285
that the board has granted and has granted

361
00:20:11,445 --> 00:20:12,525
likewise in the past.

362
00:20:12,745 --> 00:20:14,485
So, at any rate, Mr. Chairman Yes sir.

363
00:20:17,125 --> 00:20:21,205
I don't believe that Attorney Phelan's

364
00:20:21,615 --> 00:20:25,085
discussion on whether he has permission to

365
00:20:26,245 --> 00:20:30,165
practice law in New Hampshire has any bearing

366
00:20:30,625 --> 00:20:31,845
on our decision tonight.

367
00:20:32,405 --> 00:20:35,405
I I agree. I I would concur. You know, did I

368
00:20:35,465 --> 00:20:36,645
Get that from you Mr. Donlin?

369
00:20:36,885 --> 00:20:37,885
I agree as well. Okay,

370
00:20:38,435 --> 00:20:39,435
Very good.

371
00:20:40,455 --> 00:20:42,325
Thank you Mr. Tripp for pointing that out

372
00:20:42,385 --> 00:20:44,165
and also for your support, Mr.

373
00:20:44,385 --> 00:20:47,565
Donlin. So at any rate, we have that decision

374
00:20:47,785 --> 00:20:50,365
and just want to go through finding a fact real quick

375
00:20:50,665 --> 00:20:52,885
for this, this,

376
00:20:54,555 --> 00:20:57,485
this application was for Mr.

377
00:20:59,065 --> 00:21:03,965
Marion and at, was it 37?

378
00:21:04,285 --> 00:21:08,245
Reva? 38? 38. At 38 DVAs Drive.

379
00:21:09,385 --> 00:21:13,965
And we, the board found that the,

380
00:21:15,385 --> 00:21:16,925
as a majority found

381
00:21:17,115 --> 00:21:21,045
that the applicant was not already doing an existing

382
00:21:21,445 --> 00:21:22,525
business and,

383
00:21:27,185 --> 00:21:31,005
and that he was just looking

384
00:21:31,145 --> 00:21:35,325
for a location to establish for contact

385
00:21:36,105 --> 00:21:39,405
and not for sales as the conditions that the board put on.

386
00:21:39,635 --> 00:21:41,445
Anybody else have any rebuttals there?

387
00:21:42,205 --> 00:21:45,125
I would like to point out that

388
00:21:47,755 --> 00:21:52,645
whether he is running another business

389
00:21:53,495 --> 00:21:57,325
isn't really pertinent to the finding of facts.

390
00:21:57,645 --> 00:21:59,525
I think what is pertinent is

391
00:21:59,525 --> 00:22:02,245
that the zoning board has not granted him

392
00:22:03,125 --> 00:22:07,125
a previous special exception to have a home business.

393
00:22:07,715 --> 00:22:11,245
Okay. You know, and since that's the case,

394
00:22:12,175 --> 00:22:14,405
there can be no double

395
00:22:17,115 --> 00:22:20,045
home business permitted by the zoning board.

396
00:22:21,465 --> 00:22:23,005
You know, the one that we granted

397
00:22:26,505 --> 00:22:31,205
at the previous hearing is the only home business that

398
00:22:31,825 --> 00:22:36,485
is permitted at 38 vets

399
00:22:37,385 --> 00:22:38,385
At 38?

400
00:22:38,385 --> 00:22:39,805
Yep. Okay.

401
00:22:40,845 --> 00:22:43,005
Does that mean you wanna retract, you'd like

402
00:22:43,005 --> 00:22:45,325
to retract the comment I made earlier

403
00:22:47,465 --> 00:22:49,165
on the second business?

404
00:22:49,225 --> 00:22:50,485
The comment to that or not?

405
00:22:52,315 --> 00:22:56,445
Well that's, I, I would say yes. Okay.

406
00:22:56,665 --> 00:22:59,205
You know, 'cause the other thing I did is I went to the

407
00:23:00,125 --> 00:23:03,405
Department of Secretary of State's

408
00:23:04,725 --> 00:23:05,805
business website.

409
00:23:05,905 --> 00:23:07,405
Yep. And Mr.

410
00:23:07,505 --> 00:23:11,165
Marion does not have a business registered there either, so.

411
00:23:12,395 --> 00:23:15,405
Alright, so it sounds like he's just parking

412
00:23:15,565 --> 00:23:16,645
a vehicle or equipment.

413
00:23:16,745 --> 00:23:19,365
Yes. Very good. Alright. Noted.

414
00:23:19,505 --> 00:23:23,485
We will strike, we'll, I'll withdraw the comment on the,

415
00:23:23,585 --> 00:23:24,645
on the double business

416
00:23:24,945 --> 00:23:28,005
and we can, we'll stick with your comments Mr.

417
00:23:28,075 --> 00:23:30,165
Trip. Mr. Donlin, you all set there?

418
00:23:30,405 --> 00:23:31,445
Anything you want to add or change?

419
00:23:32,385 --> 00:23:34,285
I'm good Mr. Chair. Mr. Dietl?

420
00:23:34,905 --> 00:23:38,205
All set, Mr. Chair? Thank you Mr. Ghani. Sounds good.

421
00:23:38,205 --> 00:23:42,525
Thank you. Very good. We'll, con con we will conclude

422
00:23:42,525 --> 00:23:45,645
that case is completed and we're all set.

423
00:23:47,265 --> 00:23:51,805
All right. Next case up. I would ask Mr.

424
00:23:51,825 --> 00:23:53,925
Donald and Msca to sit,

425
00:23:54,665 --> 00:23:58,605
we have 24 dash one 15, this is a request

426
00:23:58,905 --> 00:23:59,725
for extension

427
00:24:04,985 --> 00:24:09,205
24 dash one 15 is the parcel

428
00:24:09,715 --> 00:24:14,485
down at the bottom of the hill here at 19 Elm Street.

429
00:24:15,145 --> 00:24:16,085
The board heard,

430
00:24:20,465 --> 00:24:21,845
was it two years ago now?

431
00:24:22,835 --> 00:24:24,125
Yeah, June the 24th.

432
00:24:24,515 --> 00:24:28,605
Okay. Anyway, there's,

433
00:24:29,045 --> 00:24:33,285
apparently there's extension extenuating circumstances

434
00:24:33,635 --> 00:24:36,605
regarding testing of the soil.

435
00:24:37,155 --> 00:24:39,005
This is a town owned property

436
00:24:39,905 --> 00:24:44,165
and the request was to put multi-family housing there

437
00:24:46,465 --> 00:24:50,805
and, and they are looking for an extension until all those

438
00:24:51,635 --> 00:24:55,205
that testing and all the other analysis can be done.

439
00:24:57,265 --> 00:24:59,005
Mr. Donlin, any thoughts here?

440
00:25:02,515 --> 00:25:06,525
It's not completely unheard of in a project of this scope

441
00:25:06,745 --> 00:25:09,445
to meet delays, especially with

442
00:25:10,915 --> 00:25:13,365
environmental testing.

443
00:25:13,745 --> 00:25:17,165
And, and I believe there's mitigation on this property

444
00:25:17,165 --> 00:25:18,485
if memory serves as well.

445
00:25:19,905 --> 00:25:23,165
So not surprising that it's delayed, it's,

446
00:25:23,435 --> 00:25:26,725
it's not unprecedented for us to meet the extension either.

447
00:25:27,595 --> 00:25:28,965
Okay. Mr. Trip?

448
00:25:30,845 --> 00:25:33,725
I agree. If, if the environmental testing

449
00:25:33,985 --> 00:25:38,965
or mitigation hasn't been completed,

450
00:25:38,965 --> 00:25:43,205
then there's no way that they could comply with

451
00:25:43,845 --> 00:25:46,765
building the, what is it,

452
00:25:46,765 --> 00:25:49,925
26 unit multifamily workforce housing.

453
00:25:51,425 --> 00:25:56,285
Oh, Mr. Sca, I know you're fairly new to this process.

454
00:25:56,585 --> 00:25:57,585
Any thoughts from you?

455
00:25:58,745 --> 00:26:00,125
No, that I agree as well.

456
00:26:01,085 --> 00:26:04,165
I would like to see everything be accomplished, so

457
00:26:04,165 --> 00:26:08,125
therefore I believe that this would be justifiable.

458
00:26:08,755 --> 00:26:11,285
Very good. Yeah.

459
00:26:11,285 --> 00:26:14,685
This, this property is similar to the Abbott Court.

460
00:26:15,555 --> 00:26:18,005
It's a property that the town has taken over

461
00:26:18,345 --> 00:26:21,085
and needs to get back on its tax rolls.

462
00:26:21,595 --> 00:26:24,045
It's a complicated lot and,

463
00:26:27,155 --> 00:26:30,015
and so the extension again, is warranted just

464
00:26:30,015 --> 00:26:31,655
to the complexities of trying

465
00:26:31,655 --> 00:26:33,695
to find a use for this property.

466
00:26:35,805 --> 00:26:39,015
Similarly, just the hardship of it alone to find, try

467
00:26:39,015 --> 00:26:43,135
and find a proper use for it is, is a challenge.

468
00:26:43,385 --> 00:26:45,485
So in this

469
00:26:45,505 --> 00:26:49,565
regard, Mr.

470
00:26:49,795 --> 00:26:51,885
Dietzel, would you like to read the motion on this?

471
00:26:53,715 --> 00:26:56,805
Well, yeah. Would you not like

472
00:26:57,435 --> 00:26:59,965
Well, I, I just wanted to say that I concur

473
00:26:59,965 --> 00:27:01,925
with the other people and Okay.

474
00:27:02,045 --> 00:27:04,285
I would've actually have been surprised if they had gotten

475
00:27:04,385 --> 00:27:06,165
it completed in two years.

476
00:27:06,305 --> 00:27:10,805
So I'm, I'm for the extension and therefore

477
00:27:11,155 --> 00:27:12,155
Okay.

478
00:27:12,155 --> 00:27:12,445
Thank you.

479
00:27:14,045 --> 00:27:18,765
I make a motion on case number 24 dash one 15 for the town

480
00:27:18,765 --> 00:27:21,645
of DER to grant the request for extension.

481
00:27:22,075 --> 00:27:23,685
That concludes the reading of the motion.

482
00:27:23,865 --> 00:27:25,005
May I have a second please?

483
00:27:26,275 --> 00:27:29,245
I'll second the motion. Mr. Lusca has a second,

484
00:27:29,665 --> 00:27:30,245
Mr. Chair.

485
00:27:30,665 --> 00:27:33,525
Mr. Donlin, I believe there's multiple,

486
00:27:37,225 --> 00:27:39,225
multiple variances associated with this case.

487
00:27:39,485 --> 00:27:41,945
Should we put it in the motion

488
00:27:41,975 --> 00:27:43,705
that we're voting on all four?

489
00:27:46,605 --> 00:27:48,465
Yes. Good point.

490
00:27:48,755 --> 00:27:52,145
Let's, let's add that Mr.

491
00:27:53,815 --> 00:27:56,065
Dietzel would, can you amend that on the fly?

492
00:27:56,645 --> 00:28:00,665
Yes. That it's applying to

493
00:28:02,845 --> 00:28:06,145
You have the cover sheet from the, the administration here.

494
00:28:06,445 --> 00:28:11,265
Mr. Dietzel? Mr. Dietzel? Mr. Dietzel sir.

495
00:28:11,515 --> 00:28:13,065
Thank you. Thank you Mr, let's go.

496
00:28:18,485 --> 00:28:20,665
So if you would cite those articles

497
00:28:20,665 --> 00:28:22,065
that we gave the extensions

498
00:28:22,065 --> 00:28:23,065
To.

499
00:28:23,065 --> 00:28:26,545
Oh, okay. I'll make a motion on the case

500
00:28:27,205 --> 00:28:30,545
number 24 dash one 15 for the town of Derry

501
00:28:30,545 --> 00:28:35,305
to grant the request for extension parcel ID number

502
00:28:35,645 --> 00:28:39,585
2 9 1 2 8 zone MHR two is presented

503
00:28:39,585 --> 00:28:40,705
with the following conditions

504
00:28:41,005 --> 00:28:44,945
and this variance will grant relief as follows.

505
00:28:45,095 --> 00:28:50,065
Article three, section 1 65 dash one zero Article

506
00:28:50,485 --> 00:28:54,665
six and sections 1 65 dash 45

507
00:28:56,445 --> 00:28:59,425
B2 little D article

508
00:29:00,885 --> 00:29:05,305
six sections 1 65 dash 45 B

509
00:29:06,285 --> 00:29:09,505
two little a article

510
00:29:10,165 --> 00:29:13,705
six sections 1 65 dash 45

511
00:29:14,965 --> 00:29:16,025
B2 E

512
00:29:16,645 --> 00:29:21,425
and article nine sections 1 65 dash 73.

513
00:29:22,685 --> 00:29:24,785
And the variance is subject

514
00:29:24,785 --> 00:29:27,185
to the following conditions obtaining all state

515
00:29:27,185 --> 00:29:30,145
and town permits and inspections subject

516
00:29:30,145 --> 00:29:32,225
to the technical review committee approval

517
00:29:32,845 --> 00:29:35,265
and subject to planning board approval.

518
00:29:36,295 --> 00:29:37,625
That concludes the reading

519
00:29:37,645 --> 00:29:39,625
of the motion. May I have a second please?

520
00:29:40,295 --> 00:29:41,295
I'll Second that.

521
00:29:41,345 --> 00:29:45,885
Mr. Dani has the, sorry Mr. SCA has the thanks.

522
00:29:46,105 --> 00:29:47,645
Second on that. Thank you.

523
00:29:47,825 --> 00:29:49,085
And thank you for the amendment

524
00:29:49,265 --> 00:29:50,725
and the attention to that Mr.

525
00:29:51,025 --> 00:29:53,565
Donlin. That's seconded.

526
00:29:53,945 --> 00:29:55,805
Let me do the finding of fact real quick.

527
00:29:56,605 --> 00:30:00,405
This parcel is at, this

528
00:30:01,065 --> 00:30:03,685
parcel is at 19 Elm Street in Derry.

529
00:30:04,355 --> 00:30:06,685
This parcel is owned by the town of Derry.

530
00:30:07,635 --> 00:30:11,125
This was previously approved for construction

531
00:30:11,305 --> 00:30:13,965
of multi-family par housing

532
00:30:15,025 --> 00:30:19,885
and the property has had environmental

533
00:30:19,915 --> 00:30:23,325
testing done to make sure that it's properly,

534
00:30:23,765 --> 00:30:28,005
properly remedied for that residential purpose.

535
00:30:28,745 --> 00:30:30,885
Are there any amendments to the finding of fact

536
00:30:32,905 --> 00:30:34,165
seeing no gestures there?

537
00:30:34,685 --> 00:30:38,165
All in favor of moving the motion for a votes Say aye. Aye.

538
00:30:38,345 --> 00:30:41,605
Aye. Any opposed? All right, Mr. Sca?

539
00:30:42,365 --> 00:30:46,245
I vote yes. Okay. Mr. Donlin?

540
00:30:46,785 --> 00:30:48,085
Yes. Mr. Tripp?

541
00:30:48,345 --> 00:30:50,005
Yes. Mr.

542
00:30:51,765 --> 00:30:53,995
Dietzel? Dietzel.

543
00:30:54,355 --> 00:30:56,715
I got it. Dietzel, I'm looking for his name on the sheet.

544
00:30:56,875 --> 00:30:59,035
I thought they took it off. Mr. Dietzel? Yes.

545
00:30:59,145 --> 00:31:00,315
Alright, very good.

546
00:31:01,015 --> 00:31:04,795
And the chair will vote yes as well, making it unanimous

547
00:31:04,815 --> 00:31:06,035
by a vote of five to zero.

548
00:31:06,245 --> 00:31:06,755
Thank you.

549
00:31:18,865 --> 00:31:20,915
Next case up is case number

550
00:31:21,975 --> 00:31:23,995
24 dash 1 0 9.

551
00:31:25,855 --> 00:31:26,855
Mr.

552
00:31:29,535 --> 00:31:34,435
Get this up. Mr. Dani, would you sit on this for us?

553
00:31:34,975 --> 00:31:39,355
Yes sir. And Mr. Henry,

554
00:31:39,445 --> 00:31:40,875
would you sit on this for us?

555
00:31:41,015 --> 00:31:42,395
Yes. Mr. Chair. Very good.

556
00:31:42,455 --> 00:31:43,955
Mr. Henry, you've seen

557
00:31:43,975 --> 00:31:46,155
how the two processes before this went along.

558
00:31:46,155 --> 00:31:47,155
You comfortable with that?

559
00:31:48,135 --> 00:31:49,795
Yes, I am. Thank you. Okay.

560
00:31:57,945 --> 00:32:02,875
This, this request is 24 dash 1 0 9 submitted

561
00:32:02,875 --> 00:32:05,635
by promised land survey on behalf

562
00:32:05,635 --> 00:32:08,155
of Comos Beach Redevelopment LLC.

563
00:32:08,825 --> 00:32:11,235
It's at 74 Beaver Lake Ave.

564
00:32:17,655 --> 00:32:22,075
Ms. Owen, can you help us with where this case is at? Yes.

565
00:32:26,675 --> 00:32:29,675
I don't know if it's in planning or what the status is.

566
00:32:30,105 --> 00:32:33,475
Sure. So we actually had our third TRC meeting on

567
00:32:33,475 --> 00:32:34,955
April 10th, 2026.

568
00:32:35,255 --> 00:32:37,355
And this project had kind of evolved over time

569
00:32:37,385 --> 00:32:41,285
with conservation with the wetlands.

570
00:32:42,105 --> 00:32:45,485
So they have a west wetlands restoration plan, a permit

571
00:32:45,545 --> 00:32:48,285
by notification as well with a wetland.

572
00:32:50,225 --> 00:32:53,565
And it's gone through three rounds of TRC most recently,

573
00:32:53,565 --> 00:32:54,645
like I mentioned, April 10th.

574
00:32:56,665 --> 00:32:59,645
And they are working towards planning board

575
00:32:59,645 --> 00:33:02,565
submission after this evening.

576
00:33:03,185 --> 00:33:06,765
And there's two sections that the variance was granted on.

577
00:33:06,765 --> 00:33:09,805
This was granted May 16th, 2024.

578
00:33:10,585 --> 00:33:14,205
It was to article three, section 1 65 dash nine

579
00:33:14,905 --> 00:33:19,205
and article six, section 1 65 dash 46

580
00:33:20,825 --> 00:33:24,685
C2 to allow the property to be subdivided into two lots.

581
00:33:25,225 --> 00:33:27,245
One with frontage on a private road,

582
00:33:27,255 --> 00:33:28,765
which is Jenny Dickey way.

583
00:33:30,405 --> 00:33:35,005
It is subject to technical review committee approval

584
00:33:35,385 --> 00:33:38,965
as well as planning board approval

585
00:33:39,785 --> 00:33:41,845
and state shoreland permits

586
00:33:42,745 --> 00:33:45,765
and municipal waiver of liability is also required

587
00:33:45,765 --> 00:33:46,845
to be recorded with the deed.

588
00:33:48,505 --> 00:33:49,725
So this is an honest effort

589
00:33:49,725 --> 00:33:51,445
to continue on working with this.

590
00:33:51,505 --> 00:33:53,765
Is that what I'm seeing here? Correct.

591
00:33:54,025 --> 00:33:55,925
And per statute we can grant the

592
00:33:55,925 --> 00:33:57,965
extension to two years, correct?

593
00:33:58,035 --> 00:34:00,085
Correct. All right, very good.

594
00:34:01,715 --> 00:34:04,165
Anybody have any comments on that Mr. Trip?

595
00:34:07,025 --> 00:34:08,285
No. Okay. This is

596
00:34:08,285 --> 00:34:11,245
how things happen when you're on a late front.

597
00:34:11,315 --> 00:34:14,525
Alright, very good. And we have DES to contend with.

598
00:34:14,635 --> 00:34:16,645
Alright, Mr. Ani, any thoughts?

599
00:34:18,565 --> 00:34:20,125
I agree with Mr. Trip.

600
00:34:20,385 --> 00:34:21,965
Oh, when you're dealing with wetlands

601
00:34:21,985 --> 00:34:23,565
and many hands in the pot,

602
00:34:23,565 --> 00:34:25,325
sometimes it does takes a little bit longer.

603
00:34:26,615 --> 00:34:30,065
Very good. Mr. Henry, I have nothing further to add.

604
00:34:30,435 --> 00:34:33,105
Thank you. Very good. And did I,

605
00:34:33,125 --> 00:34:35,465
who did I forget? Mr. Dietzel?

606
00:34:36,215 --> 00:34:38,545
Yeah, I agree with what's been said.

607
00:34:38,905 --> 00:34:40,825
They're moving the, moving it forward.

608
00:34:42,945 --> 00:34:43,945
I don't see a problem.

609
00:34:48,775 --> 00:34:51,505
Okay. Very good. All right.

610
00:34:51,625 --> 00:34:53,985
I have no f nothing further. Mr.

611
00:34:54,935 --> 00:34:56,385
Dietzel, would you like to read the motion?

612
00:34:58,185 --> 00:35:02,345
I make a motion on case 24 dash zero nine for the town

613
00:35:02,345 --> 00:35:06,385
of Derry to grant the request for extension on parcel ID

614
00:35:07,015 --> 00:35:11,705
5 1 0 8 4 zoned MDR has presented

615
00:35:11,705 --> 00:35:13,905
with the following conditions, one subject

616
00:35:13,925 --> 00:35:17,305
to obtaining Allstate and town permits and inspections.

617
00:35:17,445 --> 00:35:21,665
Two. Technical review committee review.

618
00:35:21,955 --> 00:35:25,145
Three, planning, view board committee review

619
00:35:25,605 --> 00:35:28,905
and seven municipal waiver of liability.

620
00:35:29,695 --> 00:35:30,705
That concludes the reading

621
00:35:30,705 --> 00:35:32,345
of this motion. May I have a second please?

622
00:35:32,845 --> 00:35:36,065
Second, Would we also add the,

623
00:35:37,345 --> 00:35:39,605
the two variances like we did with the other

624
00:35:39,605 --> 00:35:40,605
One?

625
00:35:40,605 --> 00:35:40,845
Oh, I didn't know there were two

626
00:35:41,385 --> 00:35:43,285
If you would like to amend that.

627
00:35:43,865 --> 00:35:46,085
Mr. May I also make a quick comment? I apologize.

628
00:35:46,325 --> 00:35:49,605
I I would like to refute an i a comment

629
00:35:49,605 --> 00:35:51,365
that I made no further.

630
00:35:51,685 --> 00:35:52,725
TRC is required,

631
00:35:52,865 --> 00:35:56,045
but planning board approval is required as well

632
00:35:56,045 --> 00:35:58,125
as the state shoreland permit

633
00:35:58,865 --> 00:36:01,005
and the municipal waiver of liability.

634
00:36:01,155 --> 00:36:04,125
Very good. So on on the motion, just

635
00:36:04,145 --> 00:36:06,725
as a learning lesson here, we wanna just stick

636
00:36:06,725 --> 00:36:08,045
to what's on the motion, Mr.

637
00:36:08,515 --> 00:36:09,645
Dietzel. Okay. Thank.

638
00:36:09,705 --> 00:36:14,565
And, and then we do want to amend the, the variance articles

639
00:36:14,595 --> 00:36:16,125
that, that are part of it,

640
00:36:16,905 --> 00:36:19,525
but the other developments that

641
00:36:20,115 --> 00:36:23,365
code enforcement has recommended will add to our finding

642
00:36:23,385 --> 00:36:24,885
of fact and leave off the motion

643
00:36:26,995 --> 00:36:27,995
Very well then.

644
00:36:27,995 --> 00:36:28,645
Thank you.

645
00:36:29,495 --> 00:36:33,765
Shoot for it again. So we, we have just one

646
00:36:34,605 --> 00:36:35,685
variance that

647
00:36:35,685 --> 00:36:37,045
Were, we have two variances.

648
00:36:37,065 --> 00:36:39,965
Two variances so I can, I'll recite the sections.

649
00:36:40,115 --> 00:36:43,725
Article three, section 1 65 dash nine

650
00:36:45,225 --> 00:36:46,445
and article six,

651
00:36:46,835 --> 00:36:51,525
section 1 65 dash 46 C two,

652
00:36:53,075 --> 00:36:56,645
Article six or article five, article

653
00:36:56,825 --> 00:36:57,825
Six.

654
00:36:57,825 --> 00:37:00,725
I have six. I have the

655
00:37:01,125 --> 00:37:02,525
original motion right here.

656
00:37:06,245 --> 00:37:10,005
I make the motion on case number 24 dash 1 0 9

657
00:37:10,105 --> 00:37:11,925
for the town of Derry to grant the request

658
00:37:11,945 --> 00:37:16,925
for extension parcel ID 510 84 zoned

659
00:37:17,285 --> 00:37:21,405
MDR as presented with the following conditions subject

660
00:37:21,425 --> 00:37:25,165
to obtaining all state and town permits and inspections.

661
00:37:26,345 --> 00:37:27,765
And this is for

662
00:37:31,895 --> 00:37:34,935
variance grant grants relief in the terms of article

663
00:37:37,565 --> 00:37:40,895
Article three, section 1 65 dash nine

664
00:37:41,115 --> 00:37:45,775
and article six, section 1 16 5 dash four six C

665
00:37:47,115 --> 00:37:50,295
two of the Tom Dairy zoning ordinance.

666
00:37:51,325 --> 00:37:52,815
That concludes the reading of the motion.

667
00:37:53,365 --> 00:37:54,975
Very good, thank You. Second,

668
00:37:55,525 --> 00:37:57,375
I'll second Who?

669
00:37:57,395 --> 00:38:01,215
Who had the second? Oh Mr. Dani? Yes. Okay. Good enough.

670
00:38:01,315 --> 00:38:03,535
Didn't recognize the, the voice. Okay.

671
00:38:03,755 --> 00:38:08,095
Yep that puts that motion on the floor finding

672
00:38:08,195 --> 00:38:12,415
of fact this parcel is at, is asking

673
00:38:12,595 --> 00:38:13,855
for an extension.

674
00:38:14,555 --> 00:38:16,615
It is in the MDR zone.

675
00:38:17,755 --> 00:38:20,495
It has currently been through technical review committee

676
00:38:21,925 --> 00:38:23,815
dealing with conservation

677
00:38:24,795 --> 00:38:27,895
and issues

678
00:38:28,395 --> 00:38:31,975
and still has to go through planning.

679
00:38:32,675 --> 00:38:37,085
But progress has been made on the parcel, moving it,

680
00:38:37,085 --> 00:38:38,965
advancing it towards approval.

681
00:38:40,305 --> 00:38:42,565
Any other amendments to finding a fact,

682
00:38:43,905 --> 00:38:45,365
seeing no gestures there.

683
00:38:46,395 --> 00:38:47,525
This is for two years, right?

684
00:38:47,675 --> 00:38:48,805
This is for two years. Yep.

685
00:38:52,225 --> 00:38:53,925
Seeing no amendments

686
00:38:53,985 --> 00:38:57,205
or gestures there all in favor of moving this for a votes.

687
00:38:57,305 --> 00:39:02,005
Say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Mr. Dani? Yes. Mr. Henry?

688
00:39:02,785 --> 00:39:05,845
Yes. Mr. Tripp? Yes. Mr. Dietzel? Yes.

689
00:39:06,065 --> 00:39:08,685
And the chair will make it unanimous. Five to zero.

690
00:39:08,905 --> 00:39:10,285
So that has been approved.

691
00:39:31,585 --> 00:39:34,405
Oh my god. Okay,

692
00:39:37,115 --> 00:39:41,525
Next case up is case number 26 dash 1 0 9

693
00:39:45,425 --> 00:39:48,205
and that is presented by Edward

694
00:39:48,345 --> 00:39:51,925
and Herbert Associations on behalf of Craig

695
00:39:52,105 --> 00:39:53,485
and Snow Bono.

696
00:40:02,675 --> 00:40:04,565
Oops. How are you tonight? Very

697
00:40:04,565 --> 00:40:05,325
Well. Good.

698
00:40:06,315 --> 00:40:08,485
Alright, here to identify yourselves

699
00:40:09,425 --> 00:40:10,425
For the record.

700
00:40:10,425 --> 00:40:12,445
My name is Shane Jen and I'm employed with Herb Associates

701
00:40:12,665 --> 00:40:14,725
and with me this evening I have Craig Bono

702
00:40:14,725 --> 00:40:15,965
who is the property owner

703
00:40:31,175 --> 00:40:34,495
Folks, a lot of moving pieces tonight.

704
00:40:35,015 --> 00:40:36,735
Yeah. And we're missing our secretary.

705
00:40:37,835 --> 00:40:39,575
Yes, we're missing our secretary

706
00:40:39,955 --> 00:40:41,215
So That too.

707
00:40:42,435 --> 00:40:45,135
All right. I think you recall Mr.

708
00:40:45,205 --> 00:40:46,695
Gendron being here with us

709
00:40:46,695 --> 00:40:49,415
before, we just ask you to read your application

710
00:40:49,475 --> 00:40:52,055
for the record and then we'll bounce questions

711
00:40:52,115 --> 00:40:53,135
off of you and so on and

712
00:40:53,135 --> 00:40:54,135
So forth.

713
00:40:54,135 --> 00:40:55,935
Sounds good. Okay. Okay.

714
00:40:57,455 --> 00:40:59,375
Variance is not contrary to public interest

715
00:40:59,375 --> 00:41:01,695
because it's an area of Central street

716
00:41:01,695 --> 00:41:04,055
that is predominantly residential multifamily use.

717
00:41:04,525 --> 00:41:07,095
Therefore the proposed use would be in keeping with the area

718
00:41:07,935 --> 00:41:10,815
construction of town homes is an appropriate for the area

719
00:41:11,035 --> 00:41:14,335
and the in increase front setback is appropriate

720
00:41:14,335 --> 00:41:15,335
for this residential use.

721
00:41:16,055 --> 00:41:18,415
Surrounding lots have pure purely residential uses and

722
00:41:18,415 --> 00:41:20,175
therefore a variance on the commercial requirement

723
00:41:20,175 --> 00:41:21,215
for this lot is appropriate.

724
00:41:21,835 --> 00:41:23,415
The applicant has been working closely

725
00:41:23,445 --> 00:41:24,975
with town planning engineering

726
00:41:24,975 --> 00:41:27,695
and DPW departments to design a desirable project

727
00:41:27,725 --> 00:41:29,775
that provides the most benefit to this neighborhood.

728
00:41:30,835 --> 00:41:32,655
Two, the spirit of the ordinance is observed

729
00:41:32,655 --> 00:41:34,485
because the ordinance allows

730
00:41:34,485 --> 00:41:36,445
for residential usage on the upper floors

731
00:41:36,865 --> 00:41:39,285
and the residential usage is in keeping with the area.

732
00:41:39,875 --> 00:41:42,125
None of the surrounding lots will be negatively impacted

733
00:41:42,125 --> 00:41:44,325
by the increase of the front setback and the rear

734
00:41:44,325 --> 00:41:46,165
and side setbacks will be met.

735
00:41:46,285 --> 00:41:48,445
There'll be no impact to any of the floodplain

736
00:41:49,245 --> 00:41:50,885
three substantial justices done.

737
00:41:52,105 --> 00:41:54,205
The use being proposed would allow the property owner

738
00:41:54,295 --> 00:41:56,205
reasonable use of the property consistent

739
00:41:56,205 --> 00:41:58,765
with other properties in the area increasing the front

740
00:41:58,795 --> 00:42:01,645
setback, better separation from surrounding properties.

741
00:42:02,555 --> 00:42:04,165
Four. The values of surrounding

742
00:42:04,165 --> 00:42:05,205
properties are not diminished.

743
00:42:05,985 --> 00:42:08,165
The area would be cleared of a dangerous unsightly,

744
00:42:08,235 --> 00:42:11,205
fire damaged building and new construction of town homes.

745
00:42:11,315 --> 00:42:13,565
Residential units would be in keeping with the area

746
00:42:13,905 --> 00:42:17,205
and would raise the value on the subject property in turn.

747
00:42:17,205 --> 00:42:18,685
Raising surrounding property values.

748
00:42:19,105 --> 00:42:20,645
The applicant has been working closely

749
00:42:21,075 --> 00:42:22,525
with town planning engineering

750
00:42:22,525 --> 00:42:24,805
and DVW departments to design a desirable project

751
00:42:25,275 --> 00:42:27,285
that provides the most benefit to this neighborhood.

752
00:42:29,035 --> 00:42:31,405
Five. No fair and substantial relationship exists

753
00:42:31,405 --> 00:42:34,005
between the general purpose and a specific

754
00:42:34,005 --> 00:42:35,245
application to this property.

755
00:42:35,245 --> 00:42:37,045
Because I'm trying to conform

756
00:42:37,045 --> 00:42:38,245
to the zoning would be difficult

757
00:42:38,265 --> 00:42:40,845
as the lock lot is unique in shape and configuration

758
00:42:41,265 --> 00:42:43,445
and does not make it conducive for commercial use.

759
00:42:43,665 --> 00:42:45,565
It is surrounded by residential properties

760
00:42:45,565 --> 00:42:47,285
and makes this proposal in keeping

761
00:42:47,285 --> 00:42:49,685
with the neighborhood limited area for parking

762
00:42:50,865 --> 00:42:52,965
for the residential use with its small area

763
00:42:53,145 --> 00:42:57,205
of garages is ideal for this lot in five

764
00:42:58,125 --> 00:43:01,405
i, the property is located on a lot that's surrounded

765
00:43:01,405 --> 00:43:04,525
by multi-family residential units which suits this proposal.

766
00:43:04,985 --> 00:43:08,005
The proposal plan would allow revitalization of the area,

767
00:43:08,425 --> 00:43:10,685
the proposal will not impact wetlands or floodplain

768
00:43:10,685 --> 00:43:12,645
and will meet all the rear and side setbacks.

769
00:43:13,105 --> 00:43:15,245
It will not pose any public health or safety

770
00:43:15,785 --> 00:43:17,405
and will meet all other building codes.

771
00:43:19,875 --> 00:43:23,205
Okay. So hold on just a second there. Mr. Sca and Mr.

772
00:43:23,585 --> 00:43:26,885
Donlin, would you sit on this case please? Yes sir. Yes.

773
00:43:27,185 --> 00:43:31,245
Yes. Okay, thank you. Alright, so

774
00:43:32,825 --> 00:43:33,845
you've been here before,

775
00:43:34,425 --> 00:43:37,045
had a bigger approval. Did you go through planning?

776
00:43:37,985 --> 00:43:41,685
We have been through A TRC, we been through several

777
00:43:42,255 --> 00:43:46,965
iterations of the plan with TDPW,

778
00:43:47,075 --> 00:43:49,245
with planning, we've gone back

779
00:43:49,245 --> 00:43:52,325
and forth with four different proposals as far as

780
00:43:52,325 --> 00:43:54,365
where the building's gonna be placed, trying

781
00:43:54,365 --> 00:43:56,405
to meet the zone and make this lot work.

782
00:43:56,465 --> 00:43:57,965
And what we're finding is that we're trying

783
00:43:57,965 --> 00:43:59,685
to put a square peg in a round hole.

784
00:44:01,385 --> 00:44:05,885
That's why you're here. We basically met most recently

785
00:44:05,945 --> 00:44:09,685
on March 3rd with planning staff, DPW Mark LaRue,

786
00:44:09,685 --> 00:44:12,885
your town engineer and the building department.

787
00:44:13,545 --> 00:44:17,005
And Mr. LaRue was the one that pushed us really to come in

788
00:44:17,005 --> 00:44:18,525
and asked to push the buildings back.

789
00:44:19,675 --> 00:44:21,165
What happens with this lot is

790
00:44:21,165 --> 00:44:22,725
that we only have about 68 feet

791
00:44:22,725 --> 00:44:24,005
of frontage on Central Street.

792
00:44:24,235 --> 00:44:26,405
It's very narrow because

793
00:44:26,405 --> 00:44:28,005
of the building setback requirements.

794
00:44:28,005 --> 00:44:29,565
In this new zone, we're supposed

795
00:44:29,565 --> 00:44:31,620
to be eight feet from the street or frontline.

796
00:44:32,095 --> 00:44:34,645
We're allowed to be five feet off the side property line.

797
00:44:35,555 --> 00:44:38,645
Elizabeth Du felt that we were crowding some

798
00:44:38,645 --> 00:44:41,085
of the existing pre-existing non-conforming uses,

799
00:44:41,085 --> 00:44:43,005
which are basically tenant houses.

800
00:44:43,075 --> 00:44:46,565
There's some larger homes that have multiple units in them.

801
00:44:47,625 --> 00:44:50,285
And so they basically asked us, look, what could you do?

802
00:44:50,285 --> 00:44:52,445
Could you go back to zoning board, see what kind

803
00:44:52,445 --> 00:44:53,725
of relief you could get.

804
00:44:54,275 --> 00:44:55,325
What we felt was

805
00:44:55,325 --> 00:44:58,005
that if we're gonna push the building back 130 feet

806
00:44:58,005 --> 00:45:00,045
and we're gonna create, you know,

807
00:45:00,045 --> 00:45:01,645
residential town home style units,

808
00:45:01,825 --> 00:45:02,845
it really doesn't make sense

809
00:45:02,845 --> 00:45:04,165
to have a commercial component to it.

810
00:45:04,595 --> 00:45:06,325
It's just, it's too far off the road.

811
00:45:06,635 --> 00:45:08,045
There's no other commercial

812
00:45:08,155 --> 00:45:10,605
that would be in, in keeping with that.

813
00:45:11,025 --> 00:45:12,725
It just didn't make sense for the property.

814
00:45:13,185 --> 00:45:15,485
We presented this to the staff, they agreed,

815
00:45:15,485 --> 00:45:17,285
they thought this was the best use of the property.

816
00:45:17,285 --> 00:45:19,485
They thought this was the best layout

817
00:45:19,915 --> 00:45:21,685
that my office had proposed as far

818
00:45:21,685 --> 00:45:23,725
as this property is concerned and,

819
00:45:23,725 --> 00:45:25,005
and that's why we're here this evening.

820
00:45:26,285 --> 00:45:29,885
I think with the being able to push the building back into,

821
00:45:30,035 --> 00:45:32,285
into the bigger area of the lot, we're able

822
00:45:32,285 --> 00:45:33,365
to have better circulation.

823
00:45:33,535 --> 00:45:34,765
We're able to be a little bit

824
00:45:34,765 --> 00:45:36,045
more creative with the drainage.

825
00:45:36,045 --> 00:45:37,445
The lot is very, very flat

826
00:45:37,905 --> 00:45:40,205
and getting water to move from one side of that parking area

827
00:45:40,205 --> 00:45:41,645
to the other is a struggle.

828
00:45:43,065 --> 00:45:46,245
And I just think that the layout we have, we agree

829
00:45:46,245 --> 00:45:48,365
with the town staff, we think that this is a good layout

830
00:45:48,545 --> 00:45:50,085
and that's why we're here before you.

831
00:45:50,665 --> 00:45:53,165
So it looks like you're reducing the impact from

832
00:45:53,165 --> 00:45:54,485
everything I can see here.

833
00:45:54,875 --> 00:45:57,565
Yeah, so originally I think we were here back in February

834
00:45:57,565 --> 00:45:59,525
of 2025 and we had requested, at

835
00:45:59,525 --> 00:46:01,045
that time we were doing 11 units.

836
00:46:02,385 --> 00:46:04,125
We were down to the five units,

837
00:46:04,545 --> 00:46:06,165
but they would be purely residential.

838
00:46:07,775 --> 00:46:11,425
Okay. Well in case I've taken you off your script, I yield

839
00:46:11,445 --> 00:46:13,545
to you and go ahead and finish your presentation

840
00:46:13,605 --> 00:46:15,625
and the board can ask you questions.

841
00:46:16,095 --> 00:46:18,785
Yeah, I I think that, you know, I've,

842
00:46:18,785 --> 00:46:20,745
ive gone over pretty much everything, you know,

843
00:46:20,745 --> 00:46:22,025
between the five criteria.

844
00:46:22,475 --> 00:46:24,745
We're looking at better circulation of traffic.

845
00:46:24,795 --> 00:46:27,465
We're not having any turning movements going on within the

846
00:46:27,705 --> 00:46:28,905
driveway access area.

847
00:46:29,045 --> 00:46:32,105
By pushing that building back, we have more flexibility

848
00:46:32,105 --> 00:46:33,385
with the drainage and utilities.

849
00:46:33,715 --> 00:46:37,265
We're able to provide adequate snow storage, adequate area

850
00:46:37,265 --> 00:46:41,505
for the dumpster and obviously clean up a site that's kind

851
00:46:41,505 --> 00:46:44,025
of an eyesore that Mr.

852
00:46:44,215 --> 00:46:46,585
Bono would like to get, you know, cleaned up and,

853
00:46:46,585 --> 00:46:47,825
and get going on his project.

854
00:46:48,445 --> 00:46:50,705
And I think that what we're proposing this evening is

855
00:46:50,705 --> 00:46:52,345
something that town staff's gonna get behind

856
00:46:52,805 --> 00:46:54,545
and that we can move this forward and and,

857
00:46:55,005 --> 00:46:57,145
and come to some resolution on this property.

858
00:46:57,765 --> 00:46:59,585
If there's any questions, I'm happy to answer them

859
00:47:00,755 --> 00:47:02,665
Board open to the board for questions.

860
00:47:04,295 --> 00:47:08,585
Alright. It appears you're asking for

861
00:47:13,245 --> 00:47:14,745
to be allowed to have residential on

862
00:47:14,745 --> 00:47:15,825
the ground floor. Is that correct?

863
00:47:16,565 --> 00:47:17,825
Yes. We're actually asking

864
00:47:17,885 --> 00:47:20,025
for all residential in this situation.

865
00:47:20,025 --> 00:47:22,425
Yeah. So part of the requirement would be there'd be a

866
00:47:22,595 --> 00:47:24,385
commercial component to this project.

867
00:47:24,875 --> 00:47:26,105
We're asking there to be no

868
00:47:26,105 --> 00:47:27,425
commercial component to this project.

869
00:47:27,895 --> 00:47:29,185
It'd be purely residential.

870
00:47:29,965 --> 00:47:33,725
Previously, back in February, 2025, we asked to allow not

871
00:47:33,725 --> 00:47:35,405
to have commercial on the ground floor

872
00:47:35,405 --> 00:47:37,045
because we were doing the town home style

873
00:47:37,045 --> 00:47:38,165
units with the garages.

874
00:47:38,505 --> 00:47:39,605
That's still the proposal,

875
00:47:39,905 --> 00:47:41,725
but in this case this evening we're asking

876
00:47:41,785 --> 00:47:43,365
for no commercial component to it.

877
00:47:43,815 --> 00:47:47,885
Right. And the other variance you're asking for is that

878
00:47:50,465 --> 00:47:54,525
the front yard depth is gonna be what, zero,

879
00:47:54,695 --> 00:47:57,325
About 130 feet where it's required

880
00:47:57,325 --> 00:47:59,045
to be eight feet from the street line.

881
00:47:59,195 --> 00:48:02,525
Yeah. And in this case, because of the shape of that lot

882
00:48:02,525 --> 00:48:05,365
and it being so narrow, I think it just makes more sense

883
00:48:05,365 --> 00:48:06,445
to push the building back.

884
00:48:06,995 --> 00:48:10,485
Yeah, that's, that's very true. Thank you

885
00:48:11,945 --> 00:48:12,945
Mr.

886
00:48:12,945 --> 00:48:13,525
Sca. Any questions?

887
00:48:14,725 --> 00:48:15,965
I have none at this time. Mr. Chairman.

888
00:48:16,225 --> 00:48:20,565
Mr. Donlin? I do roughly, you don't have

889
00:48:20,565 --> 00:48:21,645
to gimme an exact number here,

890
00:48:21,645 --> 00:48:25,285
but as far as like lot coverage is concerned,

891
00:48:25,285 --> 00:48:27,125
where do we stand now with the five units

892
00:48:27,265 --> 00:48:28,525
as opposed to the 10 prior?

893
00:48:29,925 --> 00:48:31,645
I, I don't have an exact calculation

894
00:48:31,645 --> 00:48:32,885
but we've cut it down in half.

895
00:48:33,065 --> 00:48:36,245
As far as building coverage, driveway is similar

896
00:48:37,005 --> 00:48:38,525
'cause we really haven't cut down on driveway

897
00:48:38,525 --> 00:48:41,205
because we're still providing that same driveway width

898
00:48:41,625 --> 00:48:43,805
and we're going down the length of the, the building,

899
00:48:43,985 --> 00:48:46,325
but we can get the storm water to work.

900
00:48:46,385 --> 00:48:48,805
We did a full mockup, full set of plans,

901
00:48:48,895 --> 00:48:51,965
fully engineered on the 11 units and got that to work.

902
00:48:52,865 --> 00:48:54,925
We don't, we won't have a problem with the five units.

903
00:48:55,395 --> 00:48:59,885
Perfect. Thank you Mr. Dani.

904
00:49:01,965 --> 00:49:03,765
I have no questions Mr.

905
00:49:04,165 --> 00:49:06,005
Zel, I have no questions. Thank you Mr. Chair.

906
00:49:06,165 --> 00:49:07,845
I got a question real quick Mr. Chair. Mr.

907
00:49:08,165 --> 00:49:11,165
Sca, Just a question. How many floors are these?

908
00:49:11,265 --> 00:49:13,285
Are they gonna be ground, garage floor,

909
00:49:13,375 --> 00:49:14,765
first floor and a second floor?

910
00:49:14,835 --> 00:49:16,605
Yeah, so there'll be garages on the ground level.

911
00:49:17,115 --> 00:49:20,485
Walk up to first floor, second floor living and third floor.

912
00:49:20,595 --> 00:49:22,325
Okay. Typical town, town, home style.

913
00:49:25,105 --> 00:49:27,205
Are these by chance one or two bays?

914
00:49:28,385 --> 00:49:30,245
Single, single bay garages.

915
00:49:30,645 --> 00:49:32,285
But we have on the plan, as you notice,

916
00:49:32,555 --> 00:49:36,605
offered some additional parking we're not required to

917
00:49:36,605 --> 00:49:39,125
because the state has changed the parking regulations

918
00:49:39,185 --> 00:49:41,445
for residential units down to one.

919
00:49:41,545 --> 00:49:44,725
Yep. So we cover with the garage, but Mr.

920
00:49:44,865 --> 00:49:46,845
Bono's planning on maintaining this property

921
00:49:46,845 --> 00:49:48,325
and probably renting the units

922
00:49:48,465 --> 00:49:50,325
and he would like to have an attractive project

923
00:49:50,475 --> 00:49:52,845
that has ample parking for his residence.

924
00:49:57,885 --> 00:49:59,365
Mr. Henry, you have any questions?

925
00:50:00,625 --> 00:50:02,405
I'm all set, thank You. Okay, you're welcome.

926
00:50:04,065 --> 00:50:05,365
All right, well let's go over to staff.

927
00:50:06,385 --> 00:50:10,525
Mrs. Owen, any thoughts?

928
00:50:11,055 --> 00:50:15,485
Thank you. There was a, a very well stated presentation.

929
00:50:16,345 --> 00:50:19,045
As we as we know, the applicant's seeking approval

930
00:50:19,145 --> 00:50:22,525
to raise the existing non-habit structure.

931
00:50:22,665 --> 00:50:23,965
It was destroyed by a fire

932
00:50:24,745 --> 00:50:27,485
and construct five residential townhouses on the property,

933
00:50:27,655 --> 00:50:31,005
which will not include mixed use commercial component

934
00:50:31,265 --> 00:50:33,405
and will be located greater than eight

935
00:50:33,405 --> 00:50:34,565
feet from the property line.

936
00:50:34,785 --> 00:50:37,085
So there's two variances being sought this evening.

937
00:50:38,165 --> 00:50:40,925
Property is located in CBD district which requires an eight

938
00:50:40,925 --> 00:50:43,165
foot maximum front yard setback

939
00:50:43,985 --> 00:50:47,165
and proposed structure as we're aware, is being proposed

940
00:50:47,225 --> 00:50:50,565
to be approximately 130 feet set back from the front

941
00:50:50,885 --> 00:50:52,365
property line at its closest point.

942
00:50:52,905 --> 00:50:56,165
So the first variance request is to article six,

943
00:50:56,675 --> 00:51:00,725
section 1 65 dash three lowercase C do four.

944
00:51:02,585 --> 00:51:05,765
The second variance being requested is to article six,

945
00:51:05,835 --> 00:51:10,245
section 1 65 dash 33 B five,

946
00:51:10,835 --> 00:51:13,925
lowercase B three I,

947
00:51:14,975 --> 00:51:17,485
which permits multi-unit residential uses

948
00:51:17,485 --> 00:51:18,685
as mixed use in conjunction

949
00:51:18,875 --> 00:51:21,085
with permitted non-residential uses.

950
00:51:21,185 --> 00:51:24,405
So it prohibits residential below the second floor

951
00:51:25,385 --> 00:51:27,645
as the applicant stated in the presentation.

952
00:51:27,775 --> 00:51:30,085
There will be residential living via garage

953
00:51:30,105 --> 00:51:31,165
on that first floor level.

954
00:51:31,345 --> 00:51:33,965
So variance is being requested to that provision.

955
00:51:34,985 --> 00:51:36,885
The property is serviced by municipal water

956
00:51:36,905 --> 00:51:38,925
and sewer if approved.

957
00:51:39,645 --> 00:51:43,805
The proposal will require technical review committee as well

958
00:51:43,805 --> 00:51:45,445
as planning board site plan approval.

959
00:51:46,285 --> 00:51:49,445
They'll review items like lighting, parking, landscaping,

960
00:51:49,525 --> 00:51:53,485
drainage and and architectural design review as well.

961
00:51:54,785 --> 00:51:56,405
Beyond that, if it's approved this evening,

962
00:51:56,405 --> 00:51:59,125
appropriate permits and inspections are required

963
00:51:59,885 --> 00:52:03,205
and there's also pictures on file as well. Thank you.

964
00:52:03,835 --> 00:52:06,525
Alright, anybody have any questions for code enforcement?

965
00:52:08,025 --> 00:52:10,045
All set gentlemen.

966
00:52:10,045 --> 00:52:11,365
Have anything else you wanna share with us?

967
00:52:11,835 --> 00:52:13,285
There's any other questions from the board?

968
00:52:13,285 --> 00:52:15,125
I'm happy to answer otherwise I think we're good.

969
00:52:15,955 --> 00:52:18,925
Alright, well let's take, let's make a call

970
00:52:18,945 --> 00:52:20,165
to public, alright?

971
00:52:20,345 --> 00:52:21,805
And if anyone comes up,

972
00:52:21,805 --> 00:52:23,365
you know you have an opportunity to rebut.

973
00:52:23,595 --> 00:52:26,165
Okay? Anybody here wishes

974
00:52:26,265 --> 00:52:28,125
to speak in favor of this application?

975
00:52:28,155 --> 00:52:30,485
This would be your opportunity to come forward and be heard.

976
00:52:31,785 --> 00:52:32,925
Seeing no gestures

977
00:52:32,925 --> 00:52:36,725
or anyone in the room arising, anybody in opposition

978
00:52:36,885 --> 00:52:37,885
to this application.

979
00:52:37,995 --> 00:52:39,845
This would be your opportunity to be heard

980
00:52:39,845 --> 00:52:44,165
and come forward Again, seeing no one come forward.

981
00:52:45,305 --> 00:52:47,485
Mr. Chair, I would like to bring to your attention

982
00:52:47,555 --> 00:52:50,325
that we do have attendees that are raising their hand.

983
00:52:50,585 --> 00:52:51,685
We may wanna remind folks

984
00:52:51,685 --> 00:52:55,725
of the zoning board's policy on remote participation.

985
00:52:56,755 --> 00:53:00,685
Yeah. The board no longer provides a remote

986
00:53:00,725 --> 00:53:03,045
presentation or input.

987
00:53:08,445 --> 00:53:10,525
I can, whereas there are people there,

988
00:53:12,915 --> 00:53:17,255
but we still have a URL on there and an enter meeting.

989
00:53:18,295 --> 00:53:20,095
I suppose that's just for people

990
00:53:20,115 --> 00:53:23,575
who wanna view, is that correct? It is.

991
00:53:23,575 --> 00:53:27,005
Mr. Chair, there are other, other ways we can view

992
00:53:27,065 --> 00:53:30,005
and perhaps we could discuss that inclusion

993
00:53:30,065 --> 00:53:31,285
of offline sometime.

994
00:53:31,285 --> 00:53:32,285
Alright.

995
00:53:32,835 --> 00:53:36,365
Whereas the board no longer offers remote input,

996
00:53:36,465 --> 00:53:41,125
we would have be obligated to take a motion to hear anybody

997
00:53:41,355 --> 00:53:45,205
that is remote if anybody would like to make that motion.

998
00:53:45,965 --> 00:53:48,805
I second Now. Somebody needs to make the motion first.

999
00:53:48,955 --> 00:53:50,405
I'll make the motion to hear

1000
00:53:50,465 --> 00:53:53,245
remote testimony or questions.

1001
00:53:54,145 --> 00:53:55,365
Common mistake Mr.

1002
00:53:55,575 --> 00:53:57,325
Lusca, but you're welcome to second now.

1003
00:53:57,765 --> 00:53:58,805
Sorry, I second that.

1004
00:53:59,345 --> 00:54:01,765
Any discussion on remote input?

1005
00:54:03,465 --> 00:54:06,445
All in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed?

1006
00:54:07,005 --> 00:54:10,045
I I say no. You say no. All right.

1007
00:54:10,045 --> 00:54:13,045
That's four to one Mr.

1008
00:54:15,025 --> 00:54:17,565
One of the things we'll have to realize here is that

1009
00:54:18,115 --> 00:54:20,965
sometimes we won't be able to verify

1010
00:54:21,625 --> 00:54:24,245
who the people are for sure.

1011
00:54:24,505 --> 00:54:27,725
And so we need to ascertain whether

1012
00:54:27,725 --> 00:54:31,245
or not the individuals speaking are truly

1013
00:54:33,445 --> 00:54:37,165
aggrieve by any decision this board would make versus just

1014
00:54:38,055 --> 00:54:40,365
after we take their commentary.

1015
00:54:40,505 --> 00:54:42,285
So Mr. Dietz, Mr.

1016
00:54:43,985 --> 00:54:45,965
If you'd like to guide these folks in,

1017
00:54:45,965 --> 00:54:47,485
we're welcome to hear 'em.

1018
00:54:47,825 --> 00:54:51,005
Yes. At this, at this time, the number is reduced to one.

1019
00:54:51,555 --> 00:54:53,925
This person is identified as James

1020
00:54:54,665 --> 00:54:57,325
and we can allow them to speak at this time.

1021
00:54:57,835 --> 00:55:01,045
Very good. They should be able to

1022
00:55:03,105 --> 00:55:07,935
unmute and speak at this time.

1023
00:55:15,945 --> 00:55:20,855
Hello? Hello. And it

1024
00:55:20,855 --> 00:55:22,935
appears they have lowered their hand.

1025
00:55:23,525 --> 00:55:26,615
Okay. And chose not to speak.

1026
00:55:27,165 --> 00:55:30,455
Alright, very good. Now they've raised their hand.

1027
00:55:36,505 --> 00:55:38,085
You know, this takes me back to one

1028
00:55:38,085 --> 00:55:40,445
of the cases we had once when we did remote

1029
00:55:40,545 --> 00:55:42,805
and I asked the individual, I asked him

1030
00:55:42,805 --> 00:55:44,085
to verify his address

1031
00:55:44,145 --> 00:55:46,925
and I said, are you at such and such an address?

1032
00:55:46,985 --> 00:55:49,125
And he said, no, I'm in my kitchen. So yeah,

1033
00:55:49,655 --> 00:55:51,885
Hence The complications of remote input.

1034
00:55:53,305 --> 00:55:56,405
Is this individual satisfied? Can we tell

1035
00:55:56,855 --> 00:55:59,645
Their hand is raised But we can't get

1036
00:55:59,765 --> 00:56:00,765
'em with, with it?

1037
00:56:00,765 --> 00:56:01,885
Likely that they might be be having some

1038
00:56:01,955 --> 00:56:03,085
technical difficulty.

1039
00:56:03,315 --> 00:56:06,005
Okay. We may want to guide them to dial into the

1040
00:56:06,955 --> 00:56:08,805
recording secretary's phone

1041
00:56:08,985 --> 00:56:11,965
and we can help guide them through what's

1042
00:56:11,965 --> 00:56:12,965
That phone number?

1043
00:56:12,965 --> 00:56:13,605
Eight four five

1044
00:56:15,145 --> 00:56:16,205
Should be right on there.

1045
00:56:16,325 --> 00:56:17,525
I don't recall it off the top.

1046
00:56:18,345 --> 00:56:21,165
No. Should be alright.

1047
00:56:21,635 --> 00:56:23,380
Nothing there, Ms. Boudreaux.

1048
00:56:26,395 --> 00:56:28,925
Okay, I don't know what that phone number is.

1049
00:56:41,915 --> 00:56:43,775
Do we wanna reconsider taking

1050
00:56:43,915 --> 00:56:44,915
Public?

1051
00:56:44,915 --> 00:56:47,455
We'll just let's square this up and we'll move

1052
00:56:47,455 --> 00:56:48,455
Along.

1053
00:56:58,915 --> 00:57:01,775
All right, nothing there. We got

1054
00:57:09,985 --> 00:57:10,985
3, 4, 5.

1055
00:57:12,465 --> 00:57:13,465
Thank you.

1056
00:57:14,115 --> 00:57:16,535
All right. Whereas the board has motioned

1057
00:57:16,595 --> 00:57:19,295
and made a decision to allow public input,

1058
00:57:19,345 --> 00:57:20,375
we'll give him one minute

1059
00:57:20,475 --> 00:57:22,855
and that is the gentleman online

1060
00:57:22,925 --> 00:57:24,615
that keeps raising his hand.

1061
00:57:25,355 --> 00:57:27,935
If you're having technical difficulties getting in,

1062
00:57:28,315 --> 00:57:30,855
you can call 8 4 5 5 5 8 5.

1063
00:57:33,565 --> 00:57:36,575
He's got his hand raised. Is it? It is number nine,

1064
00:57:36,575 --> 00:57:38,415
Currently raised at this time. Mr. Chair,

1065
00:57:38,675 --> 00:57:39,675
Was it number nine?

1066
00:57:39,675 --> 00:57:41,735
He presses to get in or I

1067
00:57:41,735 --> 00:57:44,895
Believe this individual's not dialed in by phone,

1068
00:57:44,995 --> 00:57:47,375
but if he were, that would be star nine to raise your hand.

1069
00:57:47,375 --> 00:57:49,295
I see. And star six to mute or unmute?

1070
00:57:49,895 --> 00:57:52,375
There should be a mute button at the bottom of his green.

1071
00:57:53,245 --> 00:57:58,095
Okay. Or, or it could be at the top, but either way.

1072
00:58:06,395 --> 00:58:11,015
Of course that number again was 8 4 5 5 5 8 5 8 5.

1073
00:58:11,015 --> 00:58:11,135
Yep.

1074
00:58:15,555 --> 00:58:16,185
There you go.

1075
00:58:18,405 --> 00:58:19,505
Go ahead and answer. Yeah,

1076
00:58:37,545 --> 00:58:38,545
Use that theme.

1077
00:58:38,545 --> 00:58:39,205
Music

1078
00:58:56,655 --> 00:58:57,655
Canal.

1079
00:59:03,945 --> 00:59:04,295
Let's,

1080
00:59:14,995 --> 00:59:15,735
hi, how you doing?

1081
00:59:17,075 --> 00:59:17,575
What's that?

1082
00:59:33,985 --> 00:59:37,125
You got copies of that? Do you have copies

1083
00:59:37,185 --> 00:59:38,205
of these or you need these?

1084
00:59:41,105 --> 00:59:42,105
Are we all set? Mr.

1085
00:59:59,545 --> 01:00:01,605
Mr. Chair? The, the gentleman's name is actually

1086
01:00:01,735 --> 01:00:02,735
Steve.

1087
01:00:02,735 --> 01:00:03,725
Okay. It

1088
01:00:03,725 --> 01:00:05,045
Seems to be a a butter.

1089
01:00:05,095 --> 01:00:07,005
We're gonna see if we can get it in through this style.

1090
01:00:07,155 --> 01:00:09,045
He's having problems with his computer at all.

1091
01:00:09,555 --> 01:00:11,405
Okay. Does his car

1092
01:00:41,565 --> 01:00:42,895
It's a better night curve.

1093
01:00:42,985 --> 01:00:46,655
Balls. How about for you?

1094
01:00:47,195 --> 01:00:48,015
Any curve balls?

1095
01:00:51,965 --> 01:00:52,575
Equipment.

1096
01:00:59,015 --> 01:01:03,445
Great. By any chance,

1097
01:01:03,455 --> 01:01:05,165
wanna just take your hat off?

1098
01:01:06,905 --> 01:01:08,765
You wouldn't by any chance. Wanna take your hat off?

1099
01:01:16,305 --> 01:01:17,165
No, you look fine.

1100
01:01:26,365 --> 01:01:27,635
We're trying to get someone in

1101
01:01:27,635 --> 01:01:29,835
that raise their hand and I don't want to

1102
01:01:36,445 --> 01:01:37,445
Hello?

1103
01:01:37,445 --> 01:01:38,355
Okay sir, can you hear me?

1104
01:01:39,815 --> 01:01:40,915
Can you hear? Can you hear me?

1105
01:01:42,815 --> 01:01:44,195
Hi, I'm gonna make it brief.

1106
01:01:45,415 --> 01:01:48,275
Oh, this is Steve PI own 21 Central

1107
01:01:48,295 --> 01:01:50,475
Street in dairy.

1108
01:01:51,175 --> 01:01:52,955
Are you a director? Property Mr. Ano.

1109
01:01:52,955 --> 01:01:54,875
And what he is planning to do will benefit the

1110
01:01:54,875 --> 01:01:56,035
neighborhood tremendously.

1111
01:01:58,865 --> 01:02:00,875
I've owned a property for over 50 years

1112
01:02:01,695 --> 01:02:04,195
and I never seen anyone take an interest like he has.

1113
01:02:04,615 --> 01:02:06,995
So I would, I would say that he would be the best guy

1114
01:02:06,995 --> 01:02:09,435
to vote in for his.

1115
01:02:10,415 --> 01:02:11,415
For his.

1116
01:02:14,465 --> 01:02:17,435
Okay, so you're in support? Yes.

1117
01:02:19,015 --> 01:02:20,445
Steve, you're in support. Steve,

1118
01:02:20,445 --> 01:02:21,445
You're in support.

1119
01:02:23,125 --> 01:02:24,445
I didn't hear you. Can you repeat please

1120
01:02:25,675 --> 01:02:26,725
Have anybody follow you?

1121
01:02:26,725 --> 01:02:28,005
Say you're in support of this, Steve.

1122
01:02:33,315 --> 01:02:34,765
Okay. All right.

1123
01:02:35,595 --> 01:02:38,485
Well, from what I detected he's in support of this.

1124
01:02:41,445 --> 01:02:41,925
I agree.

1125
01:02:46,505 --> 01:02:46,725
And

1126
01:02:53,665 --> 01:02:53,965
all right.

1127
01:02:54,225 --> 01:02:56,085
It sounded like he's in support of this.

1128
01:02:57,035 --> 01:02:58,925
That was my takeaway. Okay, good enough.

1129
01:02:59,845 --> 01:03:02,645
I think we've heard from all butters Are any

1130
01:03:02,645 --> 01:03:04,165
interested parties in this?

1131
01:03:05,595 --> 01:03:07,325
Gentlemen, you're welcome to come back up.

1132
01:03:11,555 --> 01:03:13,365
It's Gotta be something in the moon tonight.

1133
01:03:16,395 --> 01:03:21,045
Alright, Sony last comments before we move forward?

1134
01:03:21,595 --> 01:03:22,925
Nope. The board. Any questions?

1135
01:03:22,945 --> 01:03:24,565
We happy to try and answer 'em, but

1136
01:03:24,565 --> 01:03:25,645
otherwise I think we're good.

1137
01:03:29,435 --> 01:03:31,325
There's a difficulty with the zone

1138
01:03:31,625 --> 01:03:35,805
and in complying with what you're wanting to do,

1139
01:03:37,705 --> 01:03:39,605
you know, with not the non-conformity

1140
01:03:39,625 --> 01:03:41,285
and the time that e evolves.

1141
01:03:41,585 --> 01:03:45,765
How old was the house that's there? 200 years? Yeah.

1142
01:03:45,765 --> 01:03:46,885
Oh yeah. Victorian?

1143
01:03:47,385 --> 01:03:48,645
No, no, no.

1144
01:03:48,645 --> 01:03:50,005
Just a typical

1145
01:03:52,415 --> 01:03:54,015
colonial type of house.

1146
01:03:54,015 --> 01:03:55,175
Single, single story.

1147
01:03:55,645 --> 01:03:58,055
It's been there for 10 years in its condition?

1148
01:03:58,515 --> 01:04:01,495
No, no, we're probably on year three and a half.

1149
01:04:02,155 --> 01:04:04,575
Oh, it's, it has only been that long. Yeah.

1150
01:04:04,755 --> 01:04:07,455
Oh, seems like it's been there forever.

1151
01:04:07,455 --> 01:04:10,095
Burned out. It seems like that to me. Yeah.

1152
01:04:10,285 --> 01:04:13,575
Yeah. Well it's a, it's certainly a safety hazard

1153
01:04:13,915 --> 01:04:16,855
and the modification that I think that you've asked

1154
01:04:16,915 --> 01:04:19,895
for seems a little less impactful.

1155
01:04:20,215 --> 01:04:23,335
I was impressed with the first presentation a year ago,

1156
01:04:23,675 --> 01:04:26,295
you know, in the way you were trying to fit this in.

1157
01:04:26,395 --> 01:04:29,055
So, and I can relate to the

1158
01:04:29,755 --> 01:04:31,535
square peg in the round hole thing.

1159
01:04:31,715 --> 01:04:36,055
So I think all the board is all set. Yes sir. Okay.

1160
01:04:36,935 --> 01:04:39,375
We've heard from public we've satisfied that statute,

1161
01:04:39,935 --> 01:04:42,815
therefore we can take a motion to go into deliberation. So

1162
01:04:42,815 --> 01:04:43,815
Moved.

1163
01:04:43,815 --> 01:04:44,015
Second. Thank you.

1164
01:04:45,755 --> 01:04:49,255
All in favor of deliberation, say aye. Aye. Any opposed?

1165
01:04:49,805 --> 01:04:50,805
Okay, so

1166
01:04:58,875 --> 01:05:00,975
I'm on the wrong page, that's why I can't find

1167
01:05:01,065 --> 01:05:02,065
Who's sitting.

1168
01:05:03,205 --> 01:05:07,775
Anybody Wish to lead off in this? Mr. Dietzel?

1169
01:05:09,455 --> 01:05:11,455
I think this is pretty straightforward proposal.

1170
01:05:11,685 --> 01:05:13,335
I've reviewed the five criteria.

1171
01:05:13,615 --> 01:05:16,455
I believe that it fits in the current neighborhood.

1172
01:05:17,125 --> 01:05:20,565
I really don't see how a commercial enterprise would fit in.

1173
01:05:21,075 --> 01:05:24,605
Like the applicant council said, it's, it is a, a,

1174
01:05:25,405 --> 01:05:29,965
a square peg in a round hole as far as the hardship,

1175
01:05:29,995 --> 01:05:34,685
this is certainly this property has special conditions

1176
01:05:34,685 --> 01:05:38,125
which did not lend well to a commercial property

1177
01:05:38,865 --> 01:05:43,325
and it does lend well to a reasonable use of the property,

1178
01:05:43,325 --> 01:05:46,205
which is the, the, the town homes.

1179
01:05:46,645 --> 01:05:49,885
I do not see a problem with this applicant application.

1180
01:05:50,935 --> 01:05:51,935
Thank you Mr. Chair.

1181
01:05:52,845 --> 01:05:55,165
Mr. Don? Yeah, I agree.

1182
01:05:55,185 --> 01:06:00,085
And, and just to touch on the variance requested

1183
01:06:00,145 --> 01:06:03,325
for the setback, I,

1184
01:06:03,685 --> 01:06:06,565
I think the lot itself specifically calls

1185
01:06:06,585 --> 01:06:08,085
for these units to be setback.

1186
01:06:08,925 --> 01:06:13,405
I don't think it's in any way an egregious

1187
01:06:15,155 --> 01:06:16,765
footprint on the lot

1188
01:06:16,945 --> 01:06:20,165
and the setback gives them some flexibility

1189
01:06:20,165 --> 01:06:23,645
and extra parking, which is only gonna give relief

1190
01:06:23,645 --> 01:06:26,525
to the neighboring properties as far

1191
01:06:26,525 --> 01:06:28,765
as street is concerned.

1192
01:06:28,785 --> 01:06:31,325
So that's a a, a win in my book.

1193
01:06:32,875 --> 01:06:35,805
Okay. Mr. Tripp,

1194
01:06:39,915 --> 01:06:42,845
This is not what I would consider a perfect lot.

1195
01:06:44,435 --> 01:06:47,885
It's a lot of challenges, a lot of wetland

1196
01:06:50,985 --> 01:06:54,925
and apparently you have may have standing water issues,

1197
01:06:55,625 --> 01:06:57,845
but I'm sure you guys can figure that out.

1198
01:07:00,195 --> 01:07:04,735
I think that the housing being

1199
01:07:04,735 --> 01:07:07,015
what it is, five extra houses

1200
01:07:07,355 --> 01:07:10,175
or town condos would, would help.

1201
01:07:11,115 --> 01:07:16,095
And I think it's, I think it's a good idea.

1202
01:07:18,725 --> 01:07:19,015
Okay.

1203
01:07:27,335 --> 01:07:28,355
Mr. Swa,

1204
01:07:29,435 --> 01:07:30,475
I think this is a great idea.

1205
01:07:30,995 --> 01:07:33,195
I think it'll boost the area

1206
01:07:33,695 --> 01:07:36,475
and I think the way that they have it now designed is

1207
01:07:37,425 --> 01:07:40,075
well fit for what the lot entails.

1208
01:07:40,255 --> 01:07:42,195
So I'm, I'm all for this.

1209
01:07:45,545 --> 01:07:48,875
Yeah, I like the, for myself, I like the reduced impact

1210
01:07:49,825 --> 01:07:53,955
even though it's conflicting with the non-commercial use

1211
01:07:55,185 --> 01:07:59,515
requirement that that's established in this district,

1212
01:08:00,275 --> 01:08:01,995
I think it's, it's just difficult,

1213
01:08:02,005 --> 01:08:05,195
which is why this board is a, a relief valve

1214
01:08:06,575 --> 01:08:10,595
to be able to, you know, kind of see

1215
01:08:11,535 --> 01:08:16,205
in a more finite way aspects of the geography or,

1216
01:08:16,345 --> 01:08:20,365
or just the historic aspects that don't quite keep up

1217
01:08:20,365 --> 01:08:22,845
with the zoning requirements that we have.

1218
01:08:22,945 --> 01:08:27,045
So overall, I, I like the plan, I like the reduced impact

1219
01:08:27,705 --> 01:08:30,525
and, and I think it's a good fit in there.

1220
01:08:30,555 --> 01:08:33,485
It's, it's actually gonna be kind of concealed so

1221
01:08:34,725 --> 01:08:36,205
I don't see any conflicts with that.

1222
01:08:36,285 --> 01:08:37,845
I think greater than that is the fact

1223
01:08:37,845 --> 01:08:39,645
that staff has worked with the owner.

1224
01:08:40,315 --> 01:08:43,605
They understand the hardship that's there in trying

1225
01:08:43,605 --> 01:08:46,925
to make this parcel not just become a blighted piece

1226
01:08:47,665 --> 01:08:48,765
in the center of town

1227
01:08:48,765 --> 01:08:51,045
because it doesn't just comply with every ordinance

1228
01:08:51,045 --> 01:08:53,085
that's been established and that's why we're here.

1229
01:08:55,055 --> 01:08:57,365
Other than that I have no other commentary.

1230
01:08:57,905 --> 01:09:01,765
We have subject to obtaining all state

1231
01:09:02,425 --> 01:09:04,245
and town permits and inspections

1232
01:09:05,145 --> 01:09:07,765
and subject to technical review committee

1233
01:09:07,945 --> 01:09:10,405
and planning boards, site plan approval.

1234
01:09:12,785 --> 01:09:15,965
Mrs. Owen, are we, how far are they into,

1235
01:09:18,515 --> 01:09:21,045
into the planning board phase of this?

1236
01:09:21,745 --> 01:09:22,965
So this is a new concept

1237
01:09:23,185 --> 01:09:25,805
so we would still require technical review committee

1238
01:09:26,685 --> 01:09:28,125
approval first and then planning

1239
01:09:28,125 --> 01:09:29,885
board approval from there. Okay.

1240
01:09:29,885 --> 01:09:32,805
Alright. And so and so in that case, no extension

1241
01:09:32,805 --> 01:09:35,325
of the vari of a variance is gonna be necessary either?

1242
01:09:35,325 --> 01:09:38,845
Correct. Okay, very good. I'm good with where we're at.

1243
01:09:38,945 --> 01:09:41,765
If unless somebody has that something else to add,

1244
01:09:41,825 --> 01:09:44,685
we can take a motion to come out of deliberation. Mr. Dona,

1245
01:09:45,235 --> 01:09:47,325
Make a motion to come out of deliberative session.

1246
01:09:47,665 --> 01:09:49,805
Second. Thank you Mr. Trip has a second.

1247
01:09:51,785 --> 01:09:55,005
All in favor of coming outta deliberation, say aye. A Aye.

1248
01:09:55,065 --> 01:09:57,285
Aye. Any opposed? All right, Mr.

1249
01:09:57,335 --> 01:09:58,725
Tripp, you have a motion to read?

1250
01:09:59,365 --> 01:10:02,245
I make a motion on case number 26 dash 1 0 9

1251
01:10:02,425 --> 01:10:05,645
for Edward n Herbert Associates Inc.

1252
01:10:06,265 --> 01:10:07,445
To grant a variance is

1253
01:10:07,685 --> 01:10:11,605
provided in Article six, section 1 65 dash 33

1254
01:10:12,565 --> 01:10:16,005
B five B triple I

1255
01:10:16,625 --> 01:10:20,805
and section 1 65 33 C

1256
01:10:22,715 --> 01:10:25,365
four of the town of dairy zoning ordinance

1257
01:10:25,425 --> 01:10:27,845
to allow the construction of five

1258
01:10:28,395 --> 01:10:30,405
residential townhouses on the property,

1259
01:10:30,405 --> 01:10:32,885
which will not include a mixed commercial component

1260
01:10:33,225 --> 01:10:36,565
and which will be located greater than eight feet from the

1261
01:10:36,565 --> 01:10:41,365
front property line parcel ID 26 1 69 zone CBD

1262
01:10:42,145 --> 01:10:44,885
as presented with the following conditions, subject

1263
01:10:44,945 --> 01:10:47,525
to containing all state and town permits

1264
01:10:47,525 --> 01:10:50,445
and inspections subject to technical review committee

1265
01:10:50,505 --> 01:10:52,645
and planning board site plan approval

1266
01:10:55,725 --> 01:10:56,725
Completes the reading of the motion.

1267
01:10:57,305 --> 01:10:59,805
Second. Alright, thank you Mr.

1268
01:10:59,985 --> 01:11:03,845
Donlin Has that motion seconded. It's on the floor.

1269
01:11:06,495 --> 01:11:07,515
Mr. Corbett,

1270
01:11:08,465 --> 01:11:11,595
because of other obligations is good enough to be here

1271
01:11:11,595 --> 01:11:13,125
with us now and I'm gonna let him him

1272
01:11:13,125 --> 01:11:14,325
read the finding of fact.

1273
01:11:14,615 --> 01:11:18,285
Thank you Mr. Chair. On May 7th, 2026,

1274
01:11:18,585 --> 01:11:20,925
the ZBA heard the application of Edward

1275
01:11:21,025 --> 01:11:22,565
and Herbert Associates, Inc.

1276
01:11:22,565 --> 01:11:25,325
Concerning the property located at 23 Central Street.

1277
01:11:25,505 --> 01:11:29,325
Parcel ID 2 6 1 6 9 notice was

1278
01:11:29,485 --> 01:11:31,325
provided to the immediate abutters per statute.

1279
01:11:32,025 --> 01:11:33,965
The board received testimony from the applicant

1280
01:11:34,025 --> 01:11:36,325
and counsel, town staff and Abutters

1281
01:11:36,325 --> 01:11:39,445
and members of the public documentary evidence included,

1282
01:11:39,445 --> 01:11:41,565
but was not limited to site plans, photos,

1283
01:11:41,595 --> 01:11:43,245
records, and expert testimony.

1284
01:11:44,065 --> 01:11:46,245
The property is located in the central business district.

1285
01:11:46,915 --> 01:11:49,045
This is a different request than the prior variance

1286
01:11:49,045 --> 01:11:52,205
that was granted on February 20th, 2025, which was

1287
01:11:52,205 --> 01:11:55,205
to article six, section 1 65 dash 33

1288
01:11:55,885 --> 01:11:58,045
B five BI ii

1289
01:11:58,585 --> 01:12:02,325
and Article nine, section 1 65 dash 73

1290
01:12:02,745 --> 01:12:04,445
to allow the redevelopment of the property

1291
01:12:04,505 --> 01:12:05,725
as mixed use consisting

1292
01:12:05,725 --> 01:12:08,125
of 10 residential style townhouse condominium units

1293
01:12:08,385 --> 01:12:11,045
and three stories of commercial use facing Central Street.

1294
01:12:11,345 --> 01:12:14,645
Excuse me. The applicant is now seeking to approve approval

1295
01:12:14,785 --> 01:12:17,765
to raise the existing non-habit single family residential

1296
01:12:17,965 --> 01:12:19,365
structure that was destroyed by a fire

1297
01:12:19,865 --> 01:12:22,805
and cons construct five residential townhouses on the

1298
01:12:23,005 --> 01:12:25,005
property, which will not include a mixed commercial

1299
01:12:25,005 --> 01:12:28,045
component and which will be located greater than eight feet

1300
01:12:28,045 --> 01:12:29,125
from the front property line.

1301
01:12:29,745 --> 01:12:31,205
The proposed new structure appears

1302
01:12:31,205 --> 01:12:34,005
to be set back approximately 135 feet from the front

1303
01:12:34,285 --> 01:12:35,645
property line at its closest point.

1304
01:12:36,035 --> 01:12:38,285
Therefore, the first variance is being requested

1305
01:12:38,285 --> 01:12:42,565
to Article six, section 1 65 dash 33 C four.

1306
01:12:43,715 --> 01:12:46,205
Then because the five unit residential townhouse townhouses

1307
01:12:46,405 --> 01:12:48,405
proposed with residential living on the first floor,

1308
01:12:49,005 --> 01:12:51,405
a second variance is being requested to Article six,

1309
01:12:51,405 --> 01:12:55,605
section 1 65 dash 33 B five

1310
01:12:56,125 --> 01:13:00,645
BI ii, which permits multiple unit residential mix uses

1311
01:13:00,785 --> 01:13:02,325
as mixed use and conjunction

1312
01:13:02,355 --> 01:13:05,805
with permitted non-residential uses while prohibiting

1313
01:13:05,805 --> 01:13:07,485
residential use below the second floor.

1314
01:13:08,105 --> 01:13:10,685
The board weighed testimony for the proposal.

1315
01:13:11,865 --> 01:13:14,085
Now a change for this to the board.

1316
01:13:14,625 --> 01:13:16,165
I'm now gonna go through the five criteria

1317
01:13:16,345 --> 01:13:19,405
and I'm going to come to each of you to ask whether you feel

1318
01:13:19,595 --> 01:13:21,325
that the criteria has been met

1319
01:13:21,905 --> 01:13:25,605
or if it is not, feel free to elaborate as much

1320
01:13:25,785 --> 01:13:29,405
or as little as needed for this Mr.

1321
01:13:29,435 --> 01:13:33,565
Dietzel because you offered it during deliberative.

1322
01:13:33,585 --> 01:13:34,805
I'm gonna start with you on the first one,

1323
01:13:35,125 --> 01:13:37,445
the board's findings that the unnecessary hardship is

1324
01:13:37,645 --> 01:13:38,965
demonstrated because a hardship relates

1325
01:13:38,985 --> 01:13:40,925
to the unique characteristics of the property.

1326
01:13:41,785 --> 01:13:44,685
You had mentioned special conditions did not lend well

1327
01:13:44,685 --> 01:13:45,765
to the commercial property.

1328
01:13:47,305 --> 01:13:49,045
Is there anything else that you would like to add to this

1329
01:13:49,065 --> 01:13:51,885
or do I have that correctly for the unnecessary hardship?

1330
01:13:52,265 --> 01:13:53,765
That's accurate, Mr. Vice Chair.

1331
01:13:54,095 --> 01:13:56,205
Thank you Mr. Dietzel. Mr.

1332
01:13:56,205 --> 01:13:57,245
Trip, do you feel

1333
01:13:57,635 --> 01:14:00,925
that the unnecessary hardship is demonstrated due

1334
01:14:00,925 --> 01:14:02,565
to the unique characteristics of the property?

1335
01:14:04,585 --> 01:14:08,245
Yes, as I mentioned there previously, that

1336
01:14:08,835 --> 01:14:11,485
there's a substantial wetland on a lot

1337
01:14:12,225 --> 01:14:16,485
and the, the

1338
01:14:17,775 --> 01:14:22,165
which it reduces the what can be done with the lot.

1339
01:14:25,045 --> 01:14:27,645
I do appreciate the applicant I

1340
01:14:29,665 --> 01:14:33,725
making use of the, the property to build

1341
01:14:34,915 --> 01:14:37,685
housing because of the housing crisis

1342
01:14:37,755 --> 01:14:39,085
that the state is in right now.

1343
01:14:39,745 --> 01:14:43,445
So I think it'll be a, a, a, a good solution to

1344
01:14:44,805 --> 01:14:48,645
a lot that is somewhat marginal.

1345
01:14:49,855 --> 01:14:51,645
Thank you, Mr. Trip. Mr.

1346
01:14:51,745 --> 01:14:54,125
Donlin, do you find that the unnecessary hardship is

1347
01:14:54,325 --> 01:14:56,365
demonstrated due

1348
01:14:56,365 --> 01:14:57,965
to the unique characteristics of the property?

1349
01:14:59,365 --> 01:15:00,565
I do for reasons stated.

1350
01:15:03,705 --> 01:15:08,295
Thank you Mr. Lusca. I also do

1351
01:15:08,665 --> 01:15:10,375
Thank you. And Mr. Chair?

1352
01:15:11,235 --> 01:15:13,975
Yes. I feel that the hardship exists

1353
01:15:13,975 --> 01:15:16,655
because of the non-conformity

1354
01:15:16,675 --> 01:15:19,055
of the lots in those districts to begin with.

1355
01:15:19,275 --> 01:15:20,575
And restoration,

1356
01:15:20,835 --> 01:15:23,735
the needed restoration without abandonment is

1357
01:15:24,445 --> 01:15:26,055
necessary for this approval.

1358
01:15:26,265 --> 01:15:26,735
Thank you.

1359
01:15:34,275 --> 01:15:36,335
All right. That takes us to number two.

1360
01:15:37,005 --> 01:15:40,375
I'll now, I'll start to my far left foot. Mr. Donlin. Mr.

1361
01:15:40,395 --> 01:15:44,415
Donlin, do you find, or do you feel the board's findings is

1362
01:15:44,415 --> 01:15:46,415
that this is not contrary to the public interest?

1363
01:15:49,095 --> 01:15:53,855
I find that it is not contrary to the public interest for

1364
01:15:54,045 --> 01:15:56,215
what we discussed during deliberation

1365
01:15:56,235 --> 01:15:59,295
and elsewise, that this is a very unique property.

1366
01:15:59,415 --> 01:16:03,175
I think it's a good use of the property in the neighboring

1367
01:16:03,825 --> 01:16:07,215
areas as well as the need

1368
01:16:07,215 --> 01:16:09,335
for housing writ lodge in the community.

1369
01:16:10,185 --> 01:16:12,535
Thank you. Mr. Chirp.

1370
01:16:14,335 --> 01:16:16,735
I believe that the spirit of the ordinance is observed

1371
01:16:18,445 --> 01:16:20,535
because the, oh,

1372
01:16:20,535 --> 01:16:21,695
I'm, I'm gonna, sorry, I'm gonna skip to that one.

1373
01:16:21,855 --> 01:16:22,935
This one is just public interest.

1374
01:16:23,115 --> 01:16:25,615
Oh, public interest. Do you feel

1375
01:16:25,615 --> 01:16:27,415
that this is not contrary to the public interest?

1376
01:16:28,795 --> 01:16:32,575
Yes. I think that any more housing that we can,

1377
01:16:32,675 --> 01:16:35,935
we can have is definitely in the public interest.

1378
01:16:36,925 --> 01:16:39,015
Perfect. Mr. Perkins?

1379
01:16:39,445 --> 01:16:42,655
Yeah, I find that the public interest is served here

1380
01:16:43,195 --> 01:16:48,135
and there's no, there's no lack of public interest

1381
01:16:48,275 --> 01:16:50,295
by granting this application.

1382
01:16:50,985 --> 01:16:52,175
Thank you Mr. Lusca.

1383
01:16:53,135 --> 01:16:55,015
I think this would be great. The fact

1384
01:16:55,015 --> 01:16:57,015
that their townhouses gives it a little more square footage

1385
01:16:57,515 --> 01:16:59,655
for the people buying or renting.

1386
01:16:59,715 --> 01:17:03,135
And I think it's a, it's a great, it's a great idea.

1387
01:17:03,945 --> 01:17:05,375
Thank you. And Mr.

1388
01:17:05,375 --> 01:17:06,775
Dietzel, do you feel that this is

1389
01:17:06,955 --> 01:17:08,375
not contrary to the public interest?

1390
01:17:08,755 --> 01:17:10,645
Yes, I agree with everything that's been said.

1391
01:17:10,665 --> 01:17:14,765
In fact, not only will it not be contrary

1392
01:17:14,825 --> 01:17:16,965
to the public interest, I believe it is in

1393
01:17:17,145 --> 01:17:18,285
the public interest.

1394
01:17:18,425 --> 01:17:21,245
So yes, I agree that criteria one has been met.

1395
01:17:21,495 --> 01:17:25,205
Thank you. And then I will stay with you for this one.

1396
01:17:26,305 --> 01:17:30,045
Mr. Dietzel, do you find that this application is consistent

1397
01:17:30,045 --> 01:17:31,405
with the spirit of the ordinance?

1398
01:17:31,705 --> 01:17:35,245
Yes. For a reason. Stated, Thank you Mr. Awa.

1399
01:17:35,465 --> 01:17:38,765
Yes, Mr. Perkins.

1400
01:17:39,245 --> 01:17:41,925
I find it satisfactory to the spirit of the ordinance.

1401
01:17:45,475 --> 01:17:46,935
One second before we go to Mr. Trip.

1402
01:17:51,295 --> 01:17:53,815
I find it in the spirit of the ordinance.

1403
01:17:54,075 --> 01:17:58,975
The, i I think having to make this

1404
01:18:01,725 --> 01:18:06,375
dual use would be actually a, a detriment

1405
01:18:06,375 --> 01:18:07,655
to the property.

1406
01:18:09,305 --> 01:18:13,895
Thank you. And Mr.

1407
01:18:13,995 --> 01:18:14,995
Donlin?

1408
01:18:15,715 --> 01:18:20,095
Yes, I do feel it meets

1409
01:18:20,555 --> 01:18:24,455
for the spirit of the OR ordinance for a reason. Stated

1410
01:18:24,985 --> 01:18:25,985
Thank you.

1411
01:18:26,875 --> 01:18:28,695
And I'll leave it with you and we'll come back down.

1412
01:18:33,715 --> 01:18:35,015
So, Mr. Donlin, do you feel

1413
01:18:35,045 --> 01:18:37,695
that substantial justice would be served

1414
01:18:37,755 --> 01:18:39,415
by denying this variance request.

1415
01:18:42,855 --> 01:18:46,685
I feel like substantial justice is served

1416
01:18:46,985 --> 01:18:48,245
by granting this request.

1417
01:18:48,375 --> 01:18:50,325
Thank you. Mr. Trip.

1418
01:18:51,745 --> 01:18:56,565
The i

1419
01:18:56,965 --> 01:18:59,365
I believe that subj substantial justice.

1420
01:19:01,945 --> 01:19:05,805
It would be done by granting the ordinance as

1421
01:19:06,425 --> 01:19:09,645
it takes a piece of property that has been

1422
01:19:10,545 --> 01:19:13,365
at a burned out hawk for a year

1423
01:19:14,305 --> 01:19:17,285
and replacing it with five condos.

1424
01:19:17,785 --> 01:19:21,765
Is it condos? Townhouse townhouses. Alright.

1425
01:19:23,535 --> 01:19:24,925
Thank you. And Mr. Chair?

1426
01:19:25,785 --> 01:19:28,205
Yes. Substantial justice is being served here.

1427
01:19:28,265 --> 01:19:33,245
It allows the reasonable use of the, of the parcel

1428
01:19:34,185 --> 01:19:35,725
in the same community

1429
01:19:35,725 --> 01:19:40,445
that there's already similar properties existing in.

1430
01:19:40,655 --> 01:19:43,525
Thank you. And Mr. Awa? I, I agree.

1431
01:19:43,895 --> 01:19:46,525
Thank you. And Mr. Dietzel?

1432
01:19:47,005 --> 01:19:49,885
I agree. I believe there's very little

1433
01:19:49,985 --> 01:19:51,405
or no loss of the public,

1434
01:19:51,505 --> 01:19:54,605
but there would be a significant gain for

1435
01:19:55,205 --> 01:19:57,645
allowing the applicant reasonable use of this property.

1436
01:19:58,015 --> 01:20:02,605
Thank you. All right.

1437
01:20:02,605 --> 01:20:03,725
And then Mr. Dietzel, I'm gonna

1438
01:20:03,725 --> 01:20:04,885
stay with you for the last question.

1439
01:20:05,765 --> 01:20:08,285
I do you feel that the applicant has adequately demonstrated

1440
01:20:08,285 --> 01:20:10,645
that surrounding property values will not be diminished?

1441
01:20:10,945 --> 01:20:13,605
Yes. I see no evidence whatsoever

1442
01:20:13,675 --> 01:20:15,765
that surrounding properties will not.

1443
01:20:17,905 --> 01:20:19,125
In Fact, if anything, they'd

1444
01:20:19,125 --> 01:20:20,205
be enhanced, in my opinion.

1445
01:20:20,255 --> 01:20:21,255
Thank you.

1446
01:20:22,705 --> 01:20:24,405
Swa? Yeah, I was gonna say the same thing is,

1447
01:20:24,545 --> 01:20:25,925
if anything, it's gonna bring 'em up.

1448
01:20:26,455 --> 01:20:27,455
Thank you,

1449
01:20:30,665 --> 01:20:31,285
Mr. Chair.

1450
01:20:31,975 --> 01:20:34,005
Never thought I'd be the one to say this

1451
01:20:34,105 --> 01:20:36,085
as someone else on this board said it,

1452
01:20:36,085 --> 01:20:38,005
but rising tides lift all boats.

1453
01:20:38,005 --> 01:20:40,485
And I think that's certainly the case here.

1454
01:20:41,145 --> 01:20:45,445
That's a nice homage there. Mr. Trip?

1455
01:20:46,785 --> 01:20:49,565
The, I believe it's,

1456
01:20:51,355 --> 01:20:54,205
like I said previously, anything

1457
01:20:54,475 --> 01:20:57,205
that replaces the burned out Hulk is

1458
01:20:57,645 --> 01:20:58,685
probably better than nothing.

1459
01:20:59,465 --> 01:21:00,465
You

1460
01:21:01,925 --> 01:21:03,395
Thank you. And Mr. Donlin?

1461
01:21:03,795 --> 01:21:05,435
I believe the surrounding properties

1462
01:21:06,745 --> 01:21:07,955
will not be diminished.

1463
01:21:08,215 --> 01:21:10,155
In fact, I believe they will be.

1464
01:21:10,695 --> 01:21:14,075
The values will go up for reasons stated

1465
01:21:14,835 --> 01:21:18,435
specifically the fire damage building as removal

1466
01:21:18,575 --> 01:21:22,195
and in new houses or townhouses being built.

1467
01:21:23,875 --> 01:21:24,995
Excellent. Thank you all. And that

1468
01:21:25,155 --> 01:21:26,435
concludes the finding of fact.

1469
01:21:26,755 --> 01:21:29,155
Does anybody have any additions that they would like

1470
01:21:29,155 --> 01:21:30,435
to make prior?

1471
01:21:32,465 --> 01:21:34,635
Nope. See no gestures there.

1472
01:21:35,495 --> 01:21:38,835
All in favor of moving this motion for a vote? Say aye. Aye.

1473
01:21:39,215 --> 01:21:43,995
Aye. Any opposed? Seeing none, Mr.

1474
01:21:44,065 --> 01:21:47,795
Dietzel? Yes. What? Say you Yes. Mr. Trip?

1475
01:21:49,095 --> 01:21:53,035
Yes. Mr. Donlin? Yes. Mr. Sca? Yes.

1476
01:21:53,495 --> 01:21:54,995
And the chair will make you unanimous

1477
01:21:54,995 --> 01:21:56,275
by a vote of five to zero.

1478
01:21:56,375 --> 01:21:59,595
So, congratulations, gentlemen, on your modification.

1479
01:21:59,725 --> 01:22:02,355
Sorry to take you through the painful steps,

1480
01:22:02,895 --> 01:22:05,875
but those authorities above us, this is what they'd like

1481
01:22:05,875 --> 01:22:08,435
to see us try and do. Thank

1482
01:22:08,435 --> 01:22:09,275
You very much. Thank

1483
01:22:09,275 --> 01:22:10,275
You.

1484
01:22:10,275 --> 01:22:11,275
Alright. Very good. Have a good evening. You too. You too.

1485
01:22:11,275 --> 01:22:13,075
Thank you. Good luck.

1486
01:22:22,145 --> 01:22:25,755
Okay. You

1487
01:22:25,755 --> 01:22:26,755
Need a few minutes?

1488
01:22:26,855 --> 01:22:29,075
What's that? You need a few minutes or you all set?

1489
01:22:29,195 --> 01:22:31,755
I think I'm alright. You need a few minutes?

1490
01:22:33,105 --> 01:22:38,075
Sure. We're gonna take five. Okay. Gentlemen, Mr.

1491
01:22:38,375 --> 01:22:39,915
Venter, let's give us five minutes.

1492
01:22:40,415 --> 01:22:41,315
Yes, Mr. Chair.

1493
01:28:27,325 --> 01:28:29,575
Okay. Very good. We're moving on again, folks.

1494
01:28:30,635 --> 01:28:33,975
Who is here for case number 26? One 12?

1495
01:28:36,085 --> 01:28:39,815
That would be under Jeffrey Molton. Okay.

1496
01:28:40,575 --> 01:28:42,295
I don't think we're gonna get to you tonight.

1497
01:28:42,435 --> 01:28:44,415
You're welcome to stick it out if you'd like.

1498
01:28:44,515 --> 01:28:47,055
Or we can motion to table you to the next meeting,

1499
01:28:48,995 --> 01:28:49,995
Whatever the board's.

1500
01:28:49,995 --> 01:28:53,835
Pleasure. I've been asked to come here

1501
01:28:53,835 --> 01:28:57,935
and we were told ahead

1502
01:28:57,935 --> 01:29:00,015
of time to it.

1503
01:29:00,685 --> 01:29:02,165
Okay. All right.

1504
01:29:02,165 --> 01:29:05,205
Well let's, let's motion and get you, give you excused

1505
01:29:05,205 --> 01:29:07,525
and then we can get you back on the next meeting.

1506
01:29:07,635 --> 01:29:10,325
Okay. Instead of having you sit around

1507
01:29:10,345 --> 01:29:11,405
for another hour and a half.

1508
01:29:11,745 --> 01:29:13,445
Mr. Chair, Mr.

1509
01:29:13,445 --> 01:29:15,805
Chair, I'll make a motion to table case two six dash

1510
01:29:15,825 --> 01:29:17,805
1 1 12 to our next meeting. Very good. Thank

1511
01:29:17,805 --> 01:29:18,805
You.

1512
01:29:18,805 --> 01:29:21,125
Second. Second by Mr. Trip. All in favor of that say aye.

1513
01:29:21,225 --> 01:29:23,605
Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Very good. You're excused.

1514
01:29:23,955 --> 01:29:25,005
Guys can take off.

1515
01:29:29,825 --> 01:29:31,285
Mr. Landon, are you here?

1516
01:29:33,205 --> 01:29:35,525
I can give you the same courtesy if you'd like.

1517
01:29:35,575 --> 01:29:37,325
It'll be cutting, but I don't,

1518
01:29:37,465 --> 01:29:39,645
IM thinking you won't get heard tonight.

1519
01:29:39,665 --> 01:29:42,085
If you'd like us to give you the extension now we can.

1520
01:29:42,505 --> 01:29:44,445
And you can be dismissed to the next meeting.

1521
01:29:47,275 --> 01:29:48,275
Your call

1522
01:29:49,355 --> 01:29:50,485
That, is it two weeks?

1523
01:29:51,025 --> 01:29:53,765
Yes. Yeah, David. Alright,

1524
01:29:53,765 --> 01:29:54,765
Very good.

1525
01:29:54,765 --> 01:29:56,685
So case number 26 1 11. Mr.

1526
01:29:56,955 --> 01:29:58,205
Corbett, I'll make motion

1527
01:29:58,225 --> 01:30:01,405
to table case 26 dash 1 1 1 till the next meeting.

1528
01:30:01,595 --> 01:30:03,765
Very good. Second. Second by Mr. Tripp.

1529
01:30:03,825 --> 01:30:06,445
All in favor of tabling that case. Say aye. Aye. Aye.

1530
01:30:06,595 --> 01:30:08,885
Opposed? Very good. We'll see you folks in two weeks.

1531
01:30:10,145 --> 01:30:12,045
All right. Let's get back to our,

1532
01:30:12,305 --> 01:30:13,885
our regularly scheduled program.

1533
01:30:14,175 --> 01:30:17,405
We've got case number 26 dash 1 0 7.

1534
01:30:18,345 --> 01:30:22,205
We have some housekeeping rule stuff to take care of.

1535
01:30:23,005 --> 01:30:24,645
Before we go any further with this,

1536
01:30:27,185 --> 01:30:31,445
all board members had the prior application before Mr.

1537
01:30:31,665 --> 01:30:35,005
Donlin. You'll are sitting on this with us. Yes, sir.

1538
01:30:35,505 --> 01:30:38,925
And we had the prior application from,

1539
01:30:39,245 --> 01:30:40,605
I think almost a year ago.

1540
01:30:41,745 --> 01:30:46,085
And we need to review

1541
01:30:46,545 --> 01:30:50,245
to make sure that the board is, how the board feels

1542
01:30:51,645 --> 01:30:54,485
relative to the material information

1543
01:30:54,785 --> 01:30:56,805
of this case versus the prior.

1544
01:31:01,345 --> 01:31:06,165
The prior application was stated for

1545
01:31:07,045 --> 01:31:11,405
a wall cabinet channel letters,

1546
01:31:14,415 --> 01:31:15,925
Della Hunte channel letters,

1547
01:31:17,525 --> 01:31:21,165
pylon sign 156 inches by 60 inches

1548
01:31:22,505 --> 01:31:25,965
and an inclusive three by five full color.

1549
01:31:26,245 --> 01:31:28,165
LED, electronic Messaging Center.

1550
01:31:34,655 --> 01:31:36,805
Lemme grab that other application

1551
01:31:36,915 --> 01:31:39,845
here. Do you

1552
01:31:39,845 --> 01:31:41,845
Have their face page, Mr.

1553
01:31:42,145 --> 01:31:44,405
Corbet? I believe so.

1554
01:32:06,315 --> 01:32:07,525
Hang on a second.

1555
01:32:10,565 --> 01:32:12,405
I was looking for the face page on that.

1556
01:32:13,665 --> 01:32:15,645
On this current application, do you have,

1557
01:32:15,645 --> 01:32:17,645
does anybody happen to have a, what's the face page?

1558
01:32:17,825 --> 01:32:19,405
The face page would look like this.

1559
01:32:23,705 --> 01:32:26,525
The, yeah. Do you have that right there?

1560
01:32:29,635 --> 01:32:32,125
Yeah. Right there. That's it. Perfect. Thank you.

1561
01:32:41,615 --> 01:32:44,385
This does not spell out as succinctly

1562
01:32:44,525 --> 01:32:45,265
as the prior

1563
01:32:45,375 --> 01:32:49,905
application. All right. I'll

1564
01:32:49,905 --> 01:32:50,905
Bring this Back to you Mr.

1565
01:32:50,905 --> 01:32:51,545
Trip. Thank you.

1566
01:32:56,535 --> 01:32:59,425
This application that we are currently hearing

1567
01:33:03,685 --> 01:33:07,665
is asking for the similar post

1568
01:33:09,165 --> 01:33:10,265
to remain in place.

1569
01:33:13,125 --> 01:33:16,345
And it is asking for two

1570
01:33:22,495 --> 01:33:23,465
wall cabinets.

1571
01:33:26,205 --> 01:33:26,425
Mr.

1572
01:33:31,435 --> 01:33:35,145
Yanko, sorry, too many names tonight. And I see Mr.

1573
01:33:35,245 --> 01:33:36,505
Cronin is with you as well.

1574
01:33:37,435 --> 01:33:39,065
We'll come back around to you shortly.

1575
01:33:40,805 --> 01:33:43,105
Why don't you gentlemen come up to the dais.

1576
01:33:53,625 --> 01:33:55,825
I am reading from the original application,

1577
01:33:55,825 --> 01:33:57,665
however that would be inaccurate

1578
01:33:57,665 --> 01:34:00,225
because I believe in the prior case you had,

1579
01:34:01,485 --> 01:34:03,105
you had made some amendments

1580
01:34:03,605 --> 01:34:05,625
to your application during the hearing.

1581
01:34:05,735 --> 01:34:09,345
This goes back to last July, right?

1582
01:34:09,425 --> 01:34:10,465
That is correct. Okay.

1583
01:34:11,125 --> 01:34:15,625
Can you refresh my memory as to your revisions

1584
01:34:15,625 --> 01:34:18,345
that you had that the board finally decided on

1585
01:34:19,045 --> 01:34:20,145
In it last July?

1586
01:34:20,405 --> 01:34:22,025
Yes. Maybe.

1587
01:34:22,755 --> 01:34:27,225
Maybe. Yeah. So the revisions, I think we made at

1588
01:34:27,225 --> 01:34:30,385
that point where if, if memory serves correct,

1589
01:34:30,725 --> 01:34:34,585
the electronic reader board at the time, the town

1590
01:34:35,215 --> 01:34:37,145
town ordinance or the state ordinance,

1591
01:34:37,425 --> 01:34:40,985
whatever it's referred to, had it changing no more

1592
01:34:41,225 --> 01:34:44,265
frequently than seven seconds. I'm going to, yep.

1593
01:34:44,535 --> 01:34:47,145
Plea 7, 8, 6. I don't know the answer to that.

1594
01:34:47,905 --> 01:34:49,545
I had made an offer at that point, or,

1595
01:34:49,605 --> 01:34:51,505
or a vision at that point that I wouldn't change it.

1596
01:34:52,385 --> 01:34:54,705
I, I made a concession

1597
01:34:54,705 --> 01:34:57,145
that I would change it no less than five minutes.

1598
01:34:58,315 --> 01:35:00,405
That was a major change. I believe at that point.

1599
01:35:01,165 --> 01:35:02,445
I believe I made a change

1600
01:35:02,445 --> 01:35:04,045
that the electronic reader board would

1601
01:35:04,045 --> 01:35:05,085
shut off at nine o'clock.

1602
01:35:05,705 --> 01:35:09,765
At that time I had a,

1603
01:35:10,925 --> 01:35:12,485
I believe there was a stipulation at that point

1604
01:35:12,485 --> 01:35:15,725
that I was gonna put that, that sign on a time clock

1605
01:35:15,725 --> 01:35:17,725
that was also gonna be shutting off at a particular

1606
01:35:17,725 --> 01:35:18,885
time, nine or 10 o'clock.

1607
01:35:19,015 --> 01:35:20,925
Again, have to go back and read that.

1608
01:35:21,045 --> 01:35:23,045
I, I don't know, it's so long ago at this point.

1609
01:35:23,545 --> 01:35:25,485
And there's been a lot that's changed since then.

1610
01:35:28,285 --> 01:35:30,685
I do believe from the initial application to

1611
01:35:30,685 --> 01:35:32,205
what was approved by the board,

1612
01:35:32,495 --> 01:35:35,525
there was a reduction in size for some extent

1613
01:35:35,525 --> 01:35:38,005
because there was a third tenant sign

1614
01:35:38,005 --> 01:35:41,325
that we just had put in there originally that was removed.

1615
01:35:41,655 --> 01:35:43,485
Again, I can't tell you how many square feet

1616
01:35:43,485 --> 01:35:45,685
or inches was removed, but that was conceded.

1617
01:35:46,885 --> 01:35:50,005
I believe those were the generic concessions

1618
01:35:50,145 --> 01:35:51,765
or changes at that time.

1619
01:35:52,575 --> 01:35:54,485
Since that time, we've also come back

1620
01:35:54,485 --> 01:35:55,885
with some additional concessions

1621
01:35:55,885 --> 01:35:57,285
and I have some additional tonight,

1622
01:35:57,345 --> 01:36:00,285
but I believe on the original case, that was

1623
01:36:01,315 --> 01:36:02,965
what my memory serves best.

1624
01:36:03,485 --> 01:36:05,245
I think I recall you correct, there was,

1625
01:36:05,485 --> 01:36:06,925
there was a third tenant sign

1626
01:36:06,925 --> 01:36:08,725
that you had originally entered with

1627
01:36:10,105 --> 01:36:12,485
and you had the electronic messaging sign,

1628
01:36:12,485 --> 01:36:15,005
which is indicated on the former application.

1629
01:36:16,185 --> 01:36:19,445
The pile on this, which I guess would be the pole

1630
01:36:19,445 --> 01:36:23,085
that all this is mounted on, was 1 56 by 60 inches.

1631
01:36:24,505 --> 01:36:28,685
But those two primary changes from the original application

1632
01:36:29,545 --> 01:36:32,845
now that we're discussing it, stand out for, for me.

1633
01:36:33,555 --> 01:36:36,325
Anybody else have on the board have any recollections

1634
01:36:37,075 --> 01:36:39,205
that they wish to characterize here? So I

1635
01:36:39,365 --> 01:36:40,725
Re I reviewed this in depth

1636
01:36:40,725 --> 01:36:43,045
after our last meeting, so I requested more time to be able

1637
01:36:43,045 --> 01:36:45,085
to go through the minutes and those were all the concessions

1638
01:36:45,085 --> 01:36:48,205
that I noted as well between the original hearing

1639
01:36:48,305 --> 01:36:50,525
and the second day that we heard the case.

1640
01:36:51,865 --> 01:36:54,845
In addition to that, where it went through, you know,

1641
01:36:54,845 --> 01:36:55,885
what I found was,

1642
01:36:57,855 --> 01:37:00,505
What I found was murky last meeting was whether

1643
01:37:00,505 --> 01:37:03,745
or not we separated the sign from the electronic messaging.

1644
01:37:03,885 --> 01:37:05,545
And we know that we kept it all as one,

1645
01:37:06,045 --> 01:37:07,865
but all, I don't wanna say all,

1646
01:37:07,865 --> 01:37:10,465
but the heavy majority of all

1647
01:37:10,465 --> 01:37:13,265
of our discussions surrounding the hours, the strength

1648
01:37:13,265 --> 01:37:18,105
of the lights and safety, the timing, yeah,

1649
01:37:18,105 --> 01:37:20,705
the safety of, the timing of was all towards the electronic

1650
01:37:20,705 --> 01:37:23,625
messaging portion, not the entirety of the sign.

1651
01:37:23,945 --> 01:37:27,305
I think in, in, you know, by saying that,

1652
01:37:27,385 --> 01:37:29,505
I do think there was oversight on our behalf with that.

1653
01:37:29,645 --> 01:37:32,185
You know, we should have kind of realized

1654
01:37:32,185 --> 01:37:35,145
that we were just focused on one of three portions of it.

1655
01:37:35,765 --> 01:37:38,625
But because of that, I do feel that this is now, you know,

1656
01:37:38,625 --> 01:37:39,825
again, because of our error, I do feel

1657
01:37:39,825 --> 01:37:41,665
that this is a materialistic change

1658
01:37:42,265 --> 01:37:43,225
Material different. Yeah.

1659
01:37:43,445 --> 01:37:47,625
Yes. And also now, sorry, last piece.

1660
01:37:47,645 --> 01:37:50,505
As I measured it, it appears the sign itself now is also

1661
01:37:50,505 --> 01:37:51,905
42 and a half square feet.

1662
01:37:51,905 --> 01:37:54,145
Granted, I'm, my math isn't the greatest. Okay.

1663
01:37:54,205 --> 01:37:56,645
But it looks like we have a slight reduction

1664
01:37:56,645 --> 01:37:59,445
as overall from the 50 that was proposed.

1665
01:38:01,185 --> 01:38:03,405
Got it. And, and Mr.

1666
01:38:03,675 --> 01:38:06,685
Yako, was that a modification that you made at that time?

1667
01:38:07,025 --> 01:38:08,445
Do you recall? Mr. Corbet?

1668
01:38:09,005 --> 01:38:10,565
I went off the math on the, the drawing

1669
01:38:11,215 --> 01:38:13,005
Where I size again, Mr.

1670
01:38:13,005 --> 01:38:15,405
Chair, I, I'm not a hundred percent sure of Yep.

1671
01:38:15,555 --> 01:38:19,765
That change, I do know that the third tenant portion

1672
01:38:19,825 --> 01:38:22,525
of the sign that I originally had there, if I, again,

1673
01:38:22,525 --> 01:38:25,165
if you recall, my explanation for that was that, you know,

1674
01:38:25,165 --> 01:38:27,205
my family is, has had this happen over time

1675
01:38:27,225 --> 01:38:29,125
and we made the mistake of not having an extra space.

1676
01:38:29,125 --> 01:38:32,365
Right. I had no tenant. It was just to have the extra space.

1677
01:38:32,675 --> 01:38:34,925
Sure. And it was gonna be blank, you know, whatever.

1678
01:38:35,545 --> 01:38:37,845
So I think that reduction probably brought you down

1679
01:38:37,845 --> 01:38:39,165
to the square footage that Mr.

1680
01:38:39,315 --> 01:38:40,925
Corbett said 60

1681
01:38:41,025 --> 01:38:42,925
By 1 0 2 is now what's Yeah.

1682
01:38:42,925 --> 01:38:44,285
Remaining just of that. And, and,

1683
01:38:44,345 --> 01:38:45,525
and also with the reduction

1684
01:38:45,525 --> 01:38:47,365
of the electronic reader board portion,

1685
01:38:47,395 --> 01:38:49,205
that reduces the sign again as well.

1686
01:38:57,155 --> 01:38:59,255
So, to answer your question, in general terms,

1687
01:38:59,665 --> 01:39:02,535
since the initial application till today, it's significantly

1688
01:39:03,245 --> 01:39:04,735
changed in sizing. Smaller.

1689
01:39:04,985 --> 01:39:06,175
Right. 'cause the, the electronic

1690
01:39:06,175 --> 01:39:07,415
reader board is now gone.

1691
01:39:07,675 --> 01:39:09,255
It is gone, yeah. Okay.

1692
01:39:12,915 --> 01:39:16,415
Mr. Trip to what we've been discussing,

1693
01:39:16,915 --> 01:39:20,775
how do you feel on this current application

1694
01:39:20,915 --> 01:39:23,895
and the testimony has been given so far?

1695
01:39:24,565 --> 01:39:28,255
It's, there are material substantial difference here,

1696
01:39:28,315 --> 01:39:33,215
in your view for this application presented versus the one

1697
01:39:33,605 --> 01:39:34,855
last, last year.

1698
01:39:35,955 --> 01:39:38,975
The, as Mr.

1699
01:39:39,115 --> 01:39:43,695
Corbit said, the, the original meeting, we,

1700
01:39:43,795 --> 01:39:48,695
we definitely got sidetracked on the electric

1701
01:39:49,365 --> 01:39:51,055
messaging sign

1702
01:39:51,835 --> 01:39:56,695
and there's hardly any discussion on the remainder

1703
01:39:56,715 --> 01:39:58,575
of the application.

1704
01:39:59,315 --> 01:40:02,775
You know, the, I believe that

1705
01:40:04,105 --> 01:40:07,975
since the, the sign the electric messaging sign is, is,

1706
01:40:08,555 --> 01:40:13,015
is no longer part of the application, you know, that

1707
01:40:14,435 --> 01:40:18,245
should, you know, if we accept the application,

1708
01:40:18,465 --> 01:40:20,125
should make it a lot easier to,

1709
01:40:23,785 --> 01:40:24,885
to go through the, the

1710
01:40:27,035 --> 01:40:28,035
Five criteria.

1711
01:40:28,105 --> 01:40:29,245
Yep. The five criteria.

1712
01:40:29,675 --> 01:40:31,405
Okay. Mr.

1713
01:40:31,625 --> 01:40:34,645
Donlin, as you sat on this, on its first evening,

1714
01:40:34,675 --> 01:40:35,965
this current application,

1715
01:40:36,265 --> 01:40:38,525
and I think you were here for, for the prior

1716
01:40:38,665 --> 01:40:42,685
or have seen the original face page of the application.

1717
01:40:43,395 --> 01:40:47,125
What are your view, your viewpoints on the, on this matter?

1718
01:40:47,965 --> 01:40:49,325
I, I agree that the lack

1719
01:40:49,325 --> 01:40:51,125
of the electronic reader board makes

1720
01:40:51,125 --> 01:40:52,325
this substantially different.

1721
01:40:52,435 --> 01:40:54,805
This application tonight

1722
01:40:55,505 --> 01:40:57,725
in substantially different relative

1723
01:40:57,725 --> 01:40:59,485
to the prior request from a year ago.

1724
01:40:59,915 --> 01:41:02,365
Okay. Mr. Dietzel, your thoughts here?

1725
01:41:03,825 --> 01:41:05,885
You asked for recollections as I recall.

1726
01:41:06,065 --> 01:41:09,885
You asked, I I think you asked me, you asked all the members

1727
01:41:10,475 --> 01:41:13,805
whether you objected to just the electronic portion

1728
01:41:13,865 --> 01:41:16,165
of the sign or the sign altogether.

1729
01:41:16,785 --> 01:41:20,605
And I, I think I kind of, I was wishy-washy

1730
01:41:20,725 --> 01:41:22,205
'cause I wanted to discuss it more

1731
01:41:22,205 --> 01:41:25,205
and I, I said the whole sign, but then, like Mr.

1732
01:41:25,275 --> 01:41:28,525
Corbitt said, we sort of focused on the electronic portion

1733
01:41:29,305 --> 01:41:32,005
and I don't think we really deliberated

1734
01:41:32,465 --> 01:41:36,005
or focused on the sign as its entirety.

1735
01:41:36,385 --> 01:41:38,645
So I agree with what the others said.

1736
01:41:38,995 --> 01:41:40,285
This is different in

1737
01:41:40,285 --> 01:41:43,325
that it does not include the electronic messaging portion.

1738
01:41:43,435 --> 01:41:44,605
It's just the sign itself.

1739
01:41:44,665 --> 01:41:49,565
And I, I think this is, this warrants a new hearing.

1740
01:41:49,915 --> 01:41:51,005
Okay. And,

1741
01:41:51,105 --> 01:41:54,325
and I will say that, you know, I think I recall asking

1742
01:41:54,925 --> 01:41:57,125
specifically to one of the abutters, you know,

1743
01:41:57,135 --> 01:41:58,525
their objection to this.

1744
01:41:58,625 --> 01:42:02,845
And, and I even, we tabled the meeting specifically to,

1745
01:42:03,945 --> 01:42:07,405
to have information rel relative to the impact

1746
01:42:07,585 --> 01:42:09,445
of the electronic messaging sign.

1747
01:42:10,545 --> 01:42:14,925
And that became a primary focus that out outside of that,

1748
01:42:16,345 --> 01:42:19,445
you know, the questions that went on in that hearing

1749
01:42:20,465 --> 01:42:23,085
in 2025, I think the,

1750
01:42:23,265 --> 01:42:25,805
and my feeling is that the initial application

1751
01:42:25,985 --> 01:42:28,405
that's being asked for now honors

1752
01:42:28,405 --> 01:42:32,285
and respects the higher court's rulings on the matter.

1753
01:42:32,945 --> 01:42:36,565
And, and this is substantially different

1754
01:42:38,065 --> 01:42:39,245
and similar but,

1755
01:42:39,345 --> 01:42:43,445
but substantially different to warrant the process

1756
01:42:43,865 --> 01:42:46,925
and the testimony that we've allowed to

1757
01:42:47,585 --> 01:42:49,005
be presented at this point.

1758
01:42:50,105 --> 01:42:53,685
So I'll just ask for a quick motion on that, that the board,

1759
01:42:54,545 --> 01:42:59,085
Mr, that the board approves this application as,

1760
01:42:59,225 --> 01:43:03,965
as different from the prior application in 2025.

1761
01:43:05,065 --> 01:43:06,445
You wanna move that Mr. Trip?

1762
01:43:06,745 --> 01:43:11,325
So move. I'll Second Mr. Corbett. All in favor say aye.

1763
01:43:11,445 --> 01:43:14,805
A Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Very good. No one opposed.

1764
01:43:15,025 --> 01:43:17,125
All right. So let's proceed on

1765
01:43:17,125 --> 01:43:19,685
with this hearing on this, on this case.

1766
01:43:23,115 --> 01:43:25,885
Gentlemen, do you have anything that you'd like to,

1767
01:43:25,985 --> 01:43:27,685
we heard some good ideas we heard

1768
01:43:28,185 --> 01:43:30,605
and good dialogue at our last meeting.

1769
01:43:31,625 --> 01:43:33,485
Do you have anything that you'd like to

1770
01:43:34,195 --> 01:43:35,405
suggest or open up with?

1771
01:43:35,525 --> 01:43:37,085
Y Yes, I would. And for, for the record,

1772
01:43:37,145 --> 01:43:41,365
I'm Chris Drescher, counsel for the applicant with me as,

1773
01:43:41,665 --> 01:43:43,765
as well as you saw in the audience is John Cronin.

1774
01:43:45,105 --> 01:43:46,245
Yes, Mr. Chair. Thank you.

1775
01:43:46,365 --> 01:43:48,805
I think when we tabled the meeting last time,

1776
01:43:48,805 --> 01:43:49,925
and I'm not gonna belabor any

1777
01:43:49,925 --> 01:43:51,165
of the testimony we've already put in.

1778
01:43:51,165 --> 01:43:52,205
I'll simply say I defer to

1779
01:43:52,205 --> 01:43:53,405
the testimony that's already on record.

1780
01:43:54,305 --> 01:43:56,365
But the, I think the biggest discussion was lighting

1781
01:43:57,025 --> 01:43:59,245
as we were sort of ending the, the last meeting

1782
01:44:00,245 --> 01:44:03,525
specifically, you know, the, the Abutters address or,

1783
01:44:03,665 --> 01:44:05,765
or you know, put forward concerns about

1784
01:44:05,765 --> 01:44:07,085
certain lights, specifically.

1785
01:44:07,705 --> 01:44:09,445
One that's off the top of my head were the lights

1786
01:44:09,445 --> 01:44:10,885
that were shining up at, I guess

1787
01:44:10,885 --> 01:44:12,565
what was once a a church people.

1788
01:44:12,875 --> 01:44:14,525
Yeah, we'll just say those lights have been there

1789
01:44:14,525 --> 01:44:17,885
for 27 years, but my client went ahead and removed those.

1790
01:44:18,435 --> 01:44:20,045
He's turned off the lights at night.

1791
01:44:20,835 --> 01:44:22,885
He's doing his best working with code to try

1792
01:44:22,885 --> 01:44:25,325
to strip the sign down until we can hopefully legitimize

1793
01:44:25,325 --> 01:44:26,525
what we're trying to do here tonight.

1794
01:44:27,965 --> 01:44:30,645
But something that my client showed up with here tonight

1795
01:44:30,645 --> 01:44:32,485
that I thought was very helpful I think would be very

1796
01:44:32,485 --> 01:44:34,285
helpful for the board is I have,

1797
01:44:34,375 --> 01:44:35,765
these are just multiple copies,

1798
01:44:35,865 --> 01:44:37,365
but just two single pieces of paper

1799
01:44:38,305 --> 01:44:40,045
and I'll be happy to hand them to you.

1800
01:44:40,265 --> 01:44:43,645
Or is that the process? I'm gonna, do you accept those Ms.

1801
01:44:43,835 --> 01:44:47,925
Hand 'em campaign? Alright, so I'm gonna take one from each

1802
01:44:47,925 --> 01:44:49,925
of these just to, so I can talk about 'em.

1803
01:44:49,925 --> 01:44:52,805
Thank you so much. So what's being handed

1804
01:44:52,825 --> 01:44:54,045
out are two pieces of paper.

1805
01:44:54,235 --> 01:44:57,845
This first one here, they don't have titles at the top,

1806
01:44:57,845 --> 01:45:00,325
but you'll just see that there's some instructions about

1807
01:45:00,325 --> 01:45:01,325
turn on and turn off.

1808
01:45:01,745 --> 01:45:04,565
And what this is, is he has reached out to, I guess,

1809
01:45:04,565 --> 01:45:08,645
an electrician who has provided us with some technology

1810
01:45:08,705 --> 01:45:10,925
and evidence of that technology that can demonstrate

1811
01:45:10,925 --> 01:45:12,365
that these lights can be on a timer

1812
01:45:12,705 --> 01:45:13,925
and they can be turned off.

1813
01:45:14,905 --> 01:45:19,085
The second page here, which offers up a grid

1814
01:45:19,625 --> 01:45:24,285
of times of the day, is when is sunrise, sunset.

1815
01:45:24,935 --> 01:45:27,205
Thank you. That kind of thing.

1816
01:45:27,205 --> 01:45:28,925
And it gives it during the winter, the spring,

1817
01:45:29,025 --> 01:45:30,285
the summer in the autumn.

1818
01:45:30,925 --> 01:45:32,565
What my client is proposing is

1819
01:45:32,565 --> 01:45:36,045
that this sign would not be turned on until

1820
01:45:36,725 --> 01:45:38,365
essentially dusk or sundown.

1821
01:45:38,745 --> 01:45:40,605
And then at 9:00 PM they would be shut off.

1822
01:45:41,905 --> 01:45:44,365
And what very interesting fact I think

1823
01:45:44,365 --> 01:45:46,165
that would be in here is this, you'll see right up here at

1824
01:45:46,165 --> 01:45:47,565
the top of this one, it says, on average

1825
01:45:47,625 --> 01:45:50,685
for the entire year, there are approximately one hour

1826
01:45:50,745 --> 01:45:53,125
and 55 minutes of darkness between sunset

1827
01:45:53,425 --> 01:45:54,845
and 9:00 PM in dairy.

1828
01:45:55,705 --> 01:45:59,805
So on average that the sign, if, if per missed

1829
01:46:00,325 --> 01:46:02,685
that we can have it, we'll only be on for an average

1830
01:46:02,825 --> 01:46:04,965
of approximately two hours a day.

1831
01:46:06,425 --> 01:46:08,525
And if I can just add in, go ahead. By all means.

1832
01:46:08,585 --> 01:46:10,805
So if I can just add in the, the first sheet of paper is,

1833
01:46:10,905 --> 01:46:13,965
is a new technology that's, I say new technology.

1834
01:46:13,965 --> 01:46:15,365
It's been around for eight or 10 years now,

1835
01:46:15,965 --> 01:46:19,365
but it is called the Lutron device rather than just the old

1836
01:46:19,465 --> 01:46:20,725
school timer clock.

1837
01:46:21,425 --> 01:46:24,245
It is actually an app. It's programmable, it's smart.

1838
01:46:24,665 --> 01:46:26,525
So it come, it, it is gonna be set

1839
01:46:26,525 --> 01:46:30,085
that this ti this sign will actually turn on based on the,

1840
01:46:30,425 --> 01:46:33,725
the zip code of Dairy New Hampshire at sunset every day

1841
01:46:33,825 --> 01:46:36,605
and go off at 9:00 PM in Dairy New Hampshire every day.

1842
01:46:36,945 --> 01:46:39,525
So it changes daily based on the sundown.

1843
01:46:40,065 --> 01:46:44,445
That's how I, that's how it comes up with the time of,

1844
01:46:44,905 --> 01:46:46,845
you know, the average time throughout the course

1845
01:46:46,845 --> 01:46:49,645
of 365 days a year in the town of Derry.

1846
01:46:49,835 --> 01:46:52,285
They're between the, between sundown

1847
01:46:52,305 --> 01:46:54,325
and 9:00 PM is an hour and 55 minutes.

1848
01:46:55,075 --> 01:46:58,525
Fortunately for us folks that are getting a little older,

1849
01:46:58,525 --> 01:46:59,965
that is a chat GPT

1850
01:47:00,065 --> 01:47:02,805
or a Gemini search that gives you the smart search

1851
01:47:02,865 --> 01:47:05,205
of what's happens in every zip code in the country

1852
01:47:05,305 --> 01:47:08,325
and tells you exactly how many hours of darkness

1853
01:47:08,325 --> 01:47:12,725
between sunset and 9:00 PM You will see monthly.

1854
01:47:12,855 --> 01:47:15,005
Daily if you wanna go into a further search.

1855
01:47:15,025 --> 01:47:17,605
But it'll be on average of an hour and 55 minutes.

1856
01:47:17,605 --> 01:47:18,725
That sign will be on a day

1857
01:47:19,345 --> 01:47:22,365
and it will be on a smart timer that will go on at sunset

1858
01:47:22,465 --> 01:47:23,485
and go off at 9:00 PM

1859
01:47:26,345 --> 01:47:27,345
You want to ask a question?

1860
01:47:27,345 --> 01:47:28,165
I have a quick one. Just go ahead.

1861
01:47:28,165 --> 01:47:29,645
The app, a quick question on the app.

1862
01:47:29,645 --> 01:47:32,365
Right now at work we've got what we call bots that go

1863
01:47:32,365 --> 01:47:33,125
through, they make everything

1864
01:47:33,125 --> 01:47:34,885
automated, supposed to make life awesome.

1865
01:47:35,075 --> 01:47:36,805
It's the kind of the bane of my existence to be honest.

1866
01:47:37,245 --> 01:47:39,685
'cause they don't always work in this scenario.

1867
01:47:40,225 --> 01:47:42,325
Lutron doesn't turn off when it was supposed to.

1868
01:47:42,325 --> 01:47:43,525
You get notified, you're,

1869
01:47:44,145 --> 01:47:46,125
you're wherever you're in Massachusetts sort of reason.

1870
01:47:46,665 --> 01:47:47,765
Can you override through the

1871
01:47:47,765 --> 01:47:48,765
App?

1872
01:47:48,765 --> 01:47:50,365
I I don't know the answer if I get notified. Okay.

1873
01:47:50,745 --> 01:47:51,885
I'd be surprised if I didn't.

1874
01:47:51,885 --> 01:47:52,965
Just with today's technology,

1875
01:47:53,405 --> 01:47:56,205
I already have the Lutron device on some of my home things.

1876
01:47:56,225 --> 01:47:58,325
So if I'm, if if I'm coming home

1877
01:47:58,325 --> 01:48:00,125
and, you know, my daughter's coming home at 10 o'clock,

1878
01:48:00,245 --> 01:48:01,445
I can go on my app and hit on

1879
01:48:01,445 --> 01:48:03,765
and it turns the lights on it, it's an automated app,

1880
01:48:03,905 --> 01:48:05,765
so yes, you can do it manually as well.

1881
01:48:06,225 --> 01:48:10,645
But I was actually unknown, unbeknownst to me this,

1882
01:48:10,905 --> 01:48:13,165
it actually has the feature that it can go on at sunset

1883
01:48:13,385 --> 01:48:16,005
and go off at 9:00 PM so that's just an added feature.

1884
01:48:16,365 --> 01:48:18,565
I can also manually go in like an old school time clock

1885
01:48:18,565 --> 01:48:21,405
and say, I want it to go on at 7:00 PM every day

1886
01:48:22,105 --> 01:48:23,525
and go off at 9:00 PM Oh,

1887
01:48:23,525 --> 01:48:24,005
That's good. I I

1888
01:48:24,305 --> 01:48:26,285
But then it's on during the daylight. I don't need that.

1889
01:48:26,945 --> 01:48:27,885
Oh, it works. I just wanna make sure

1890
01:48:27,885 --> 01:48:28,885
there was some type of Yes,

1891
01:48:28,885 --> 01:48:29,885
There is a manual.

1892
01:48:29,885 --> 01:48:31,805
Manual of course. Yeah. There's actually a switch in the

1893
01:48:31,885 --> 01:48:33,485
building too that you can actually turn on and off.

1894
01:48:33,515 --> 01:48:35,845
It's just, it has the smart features.

1895
01:48:36,725 --> 01:48:40,605
I think one of the things I'd like to look at is in,

1896
01:48:40,825 --> 01:48:43,405
in some of the considerations in the discussions

1897
01:48:43,405 --> 01:48:48,165
that have gone back and forth is in, in your own testimony,

1898
01:48:49,145 --> 01:48:52,925
you know, your, your importance or your understanding

1899
01:48:55,185 --> 01:48:58,365
or our understanding of the legitimacy of a business

1900
01:48:58,985 --> 01:49:01,845
that's in a location that needs advertising.

1901
01:49:02,385 --> 01:49:03,605
And I think in all of this,

1902
01:49:03,625 --> 01:49:05,925
and hearing the arguments going back

1903
01:49:05,925 --> 01:49:09,885
and forth, it's how much is required

1904
01:49:10,145 --> 01:49:14,645
or significant or necessary in that area or, or in any area.

1905
01:49:14,645 --> 01:49:17,165
Right. I think this has caused me

1906
01:49:17,185 --> 01:49:19,125
to look at the ordinances overall.

1907
01:49:19,345 --> 01:49:21,725
And I think one of the abutters is, you know, his,

1908
01:49:21,865 --> 01:49:26,045
his commentary at the last meeting really opened my eyes a

1909
01:49:26,045 --> 01:49:29,245
bit more to three pages of ordinances relative

1910
01:49:29,245 --> 01:49:31,165
to signs in our, in our community.

1911
01:49:31,785 --> 01:49:36,445
And even with churches that are in non-residential

1912
01:49:36,505 --> 01:49:40,325
or in residential areas, there's restrictions with the ideas

1913
01:49:40,625 --> 01:49:43,445
of lighting and what that, what a sign for

1914
01:49:43,445 --> 01:49:46,805
that would be would, would what's necessary there.

1915
01:49:47,505 --> 01:49:49,805
And, and relating to your own testimony

1916
01:49:50,745 --> 01:49:53,005
and your drive to have a sign there,

1917
01:49:53,005 --> 01:49:56,645
which I think is a legitimate requirement here.

1918
01:49:57,595 --> 01:50:00,285
It's just how far does that legitimacy go

1919
01:50:00,585 --> 01:50:04,805
and do, what is the necessity of lighting for this

1920
01:50:05,785 --> 01:50:10,325
parcel or for these signs, you know, in, at, at all

1921
01:50:11,345 --> 01:50:15,605
if your operations are limited to daytime hours to begin

1922
01:50:15,605 --> 01:50:19,605
with in understanding the corridor that you're operating in.

1923
01:50:20,865 --> 01:50:23,405
You know, that's, that's one of the areas that I'm wrestling

1924
01:50:23,405 --> 01:50:27,205
with is in, in reviewing our own ordinances.

1925
01:50:27,505 --> 01:50:30,205
What's, what's really truly necessary here

1926
01:50:30,465 --> 01:50:33,165
for lighting in at all for the signs?

1927
01:50:33,715 --> 01:50:35,205
Well, I think if I, I could comment

1928
01:50:35,225 --> 01:50:36,605
and then I'll let my client speak

1929
01:50:36,845 --> 01:50:38,605
because he has taken down the sign

1930
01:50:38,965 --> 01:50:40,565
and it's already had an impact on his business.

1931
01:50:40,755 --> 01:50:43,165
Yeah. To his detriment, which he can speak to.

1932
01:50:43,925 --> 01:50:46,245
But I I will say that, you know, driving around that area,

1933
01:50:46,275 --> 01:50:48,125
once it gets dark, there needs to be some kind

1934
01:50:48,125 --> 01:50:49,165
of light to see the sign.

1935
01:50:49,605 --> 01:50:52,165
I mean, the business is going to be open at, at least

1936
01:50:52,465 --> 01:50:55,245
for a period of time when it is dark out,

1937
01:50:56,105 --> 01:50:58,245
as you just heard him say, the sun, the sign wouldn't be lit

1938
01:50:58,455 --> 01:51:00,765
until, until it's nighttime.

1939
01:51:01,865 --> 01:51:03,085
And I agree with you at least

1940
01:51:03,785 --> 01:51:04,725
why would you need the lighting

1941
01:51:04,725 --> 01:51:05,845
when it's broad daylight, right?

1942
01:51:05,845 --> 01:51:08,085
Yeah. So I think I could, I could totally understand that.

1943
01:51:08,465 --> 01:51:10,205
But what he's suggesting is that it just needs

1944
01:51:10,205 --> 01:51:11,525
to be lit once it's dark.

1945
01:51:12,065 --> 01:51:14,205
And as he can speak to the, the kind

1946
01:51:14,205 --> 01:51:15,445
of hit he's been taking in the past couple

1947
01:51:15,445 --> 01:51:16,565
of weeks at his business, just 'cause

1948
01:51:16,565 --> 01:51:17,685
of people literally calling him

1949
01:51:17,685 --> 01:51:19,165
and saying, Hey, what's going on?

1950
01:51:19,365 --> 01:51:20,685
I, you know, and it's Mother's Day

1951
01:51:20,685 --> 01:51:22,165
and he has got a landscaping business there.

1952
01:51:22,185 --> 01:51:23,485
So I dunno if you wanna comment on

1953
01:51:23,515 --> 01:51:24,515
That.

1954
01:51:24,515 --> 01:51:25,365
Yeah, I mean certainly I, you know, I,

1955
01:51:25,445 --> 01:51:27,405
I don't have enough history there to tell you what my,

1956
01:51:27,465 --> 01:51:28,565
you know, what, what my loss

1957
01:51:28,565 --> 01:51:30,045
of business is from year over year.

1958
01:51:30,785 --> 01:51:32,765
But what I can tell you is that I have a significant,

1959
01:51:32,985 --> 01:51:34,125
you know, impact at this point.

1960
01:51:34,125 --> 01:51:36,845
People think I'm outta business. That's been certainly the

1961
01:51:36,845 --> 01:51:39,045
first thing that happened when I had to remove the sign.

1962
01:51:39,055 --> 01:51:41,325
Right? People don't believe I'm there now.

1963
01:51:41,395 --> 01:51:43,005
They call and see if we're still

1964
01:51:43,005 --> 01:51:44,165
in business, if we're still around.

1965
01:51:44,725 --> 01:51:46,325
So certainly it's been a huge impact on that.

1966
01:51:47,425 --> 01:51:50,765
As far as, you know, speaking to the, the timings

1967
01:51:50,825 --> 01:51:52,765
or the, the necessity for myself

1968
01:51:52,765 --> 01:51:57,525
and my businesses at that location to have a sign

1969
01:51:57,545 --> 01:51:59,845
and a sign that is illuminated for a period of time,

1970
01:52:00,215 --> 01:52:01,885
which I believe that the concessions

1971
01:52:01,885 --> 01:52:04,245
that I'm offering are the bare minimums.

1972
01:52:04,245 --> 01:52:06,765
What I'm, I, I really need from my requirement

1973
01:52:07,025 --> 01:52:08,845
to operate a viable business there.

1974
01:52:09,645 --> 01:52:11,805
I think that the, that in the past, the, you know,

1975
01:52:11,805 --> 01:52:13,965
my buyers have come up with several other signs from

1976
01:52:13,965 --> 01:52:15,005
landscape companies

1977
01:52:15,145 --> 01:52:17,525
or landscapers that don't do retail businesses

1978
01:52:17,625 --> 01:52:19,005
and have signs and so forth

1979
01:52:19,025 --> 01:52:22,205
and shown those that, you know, the, the, the thing that's,

1980
01:52:22,205 --> 01:52:23,525
that's lost here is I own a,

1981
01:52:23,685 --> 01:52:26,125
I own a sports business there as well.

1982
01:52:26,155 --> 01:52:29,645
That the impact is crucial on the nighttime business.

1983
01:52:30,265 --> 01:52:31,245
You know, I'm approved to be

1984
01:52:31,245 --> 01:52:32,245
open till nine o'clock at night.

1985
01:52:32,985 --> 01:52:35,445
We do have, we, we, we, you know, people are there

1986
01:52:35,445 --> 01:52:38,885
until at nine o'clock and then they leave, you know,

1987
01:52:38,885 --> 01:52:40,285
or thereafter until they get out.

1988
01:52:41,345 --> 01:52:44,405
You know, that is a business that is open in the wintertime

1989
01:52:44,405 --> 01:52:46,430
where it is, is longer, darker hours.

1990
01:52:47,425 --> 01:52:50,005
My commercial slash residential

1991
01:52:50,515 --> 01:52:52,125
landscape business really does

1992
01:52:52,125 --> 01:52:53,405
virtually no business in the winter.

1993
01:52:54,265 --> 01:52:56,165
We don't need to turn the sign on in the morning.

1994
01:52:57,285 --> 01:52:59,405
I almost don't need the sign at all lit ever

1995
01:52:59,665 --> 01:53:01,285
for my commercial landscape business.

1996
01:53:01,425 --> 01:53:04,245
And my, my sale of products we're closed

1997
01:53:04,245 --> 01:53:05,365
before the darkness.

1998
01:53:05,395 --> 01:53:06,725
That, that has no bearing on that.

1999
01:53:07,235 --> 01:53:10,245
What it does have a huge bearing on is my sports business,

2000
01:53:10,245 --> 01:53:12,365
people coming from outside of the town

2001
01:53:12,385 --> 01:53:13,405
or even within the town,

2002
01:53:13,805 --> 01:53:16,085
driving down a very busy road in the dark,

2003
01:53:16,455 --> 01:53:17,605
could be four 30 in the

2004
01:53:17,605 --> 01:53:18,885
afternoon, in the middle of the winter.

2005
01:53:19,105 --> 01:53:20,565
And I have no advertising

2006
01:53:20,565 --> 01:53:23,525
that can be seen if it isn't illuminated at that time.

2007
01:53:23,625 --> 01:53:27,005
So the impact for me, for the, for the allowed business for

2008
01:53:27,005 --> 01:53:30,205
that area is a massive impact without any

2009
01:53:30,205 --> 01:53:31,445
illumination on that sign.

2010
01:53:32,165 --> 01:53:35,445
And I think that the concessions that I'm offering or

2011
01:53:35,585 --> 01:53:39,685
or asking for are, I think they're very fair.

2012
01:53:39,925 --> 01:53:41,325
I really do. I think they're very

2013
01:53:41,325 --> 01:53:42,445
fair for what I'm offering.

2014
01:53:42,545 --> 01:53:44,005
I'm not looking to have the sign on all night.

2015
01:53:44,465 --> 01:53:46,365
I'm not looking for the electronic reader board anymore.

2016
01:53:46,785 --> 01:53:48,605
I'm not looking to turn the sign on in the morning.

2017
01:53:49,265 --> 01:53:51,645
I'm looking for the sign to be on so people

2018
01:53:51,855 --> 01:53:53,965
after dark know where I am.

2019
01:53:54,745 --> 01:53:56,085
And just to embellish on a point,

2020
01:53:56,085 --> 01:53:57,885
he just made a little bit of, when you talk about a,

2021
01:53:57,885 --> 01:53:59,885
like a baseball camp or a school

2022
01:53:59,945 --> 01:54:01,165
or whatever you wanna call it,

2023
01:54:01,465 --> 01:54:02,885
that's gonna be an after school thing.

2024
01:54:02,885 --> 01:54:04,885
That's gonna be something that's going on after school

2025
01:54:04,945 --> 01:54:07,085
and into the evenings that, you know, kids are going from,

2026
01:54:07,305 --> 01:54:08,845
you know, high school or wherever and coming there.

2027
01:54:08,865 --> 01:54:10,685
So it's gonna be a little dark at times.

2028
01:54:11,105 --> 01:54:14,205
So that substantiates the need for, for at least one

2029
01:54:14,205 --> 01:54:16,605
of the signs after dark.

2030
01:54:17,785 --> 01:54:19,795
Well, They're the same cabinet, but yes.

2031
01:54:20,145 --> 01:54:22,475
Okay. Mr. Mr. Corbit.

2032
01:54:22,615 --> 01:54:25,755
So I have a, I have a question regarding that kind of,

2033
01:54:26,095 --> 01:54:27,555
not necessarily just the light as Mr.

2034
01:54:27,715 --> 01:54:30,075
Chairman's going to, but the overall size

2035
01:54:30,555 --> 01:54:33,475
as we discussed concessions.

2036
01:54:34,175 --> 01:54:37,475
So I drove by a few times when the sign was up.

2037
01:54:38,775 --> 01:54:42,075
And admittedly, I think the sign is very,

2038
01:54:42,175 --> 01:54:44,235
it was done very tastefully, I will say that.

2039
01:54:45,095 --> 01:54:48,635
And I thought the size of the overall sign, I didn't find

2040
01:54:48,775 --> 01:54:50,475
to be egregious personally.

2041
01:54:50,755 --> 01:54:53,035
I thought that coming down the road, it actually jumped out.

2042
01:54:53,035 --> 01:54:55,835
It, it was actually in my opinion, necessary to find it.

2043
01:54:56,575 --> 01:55:00,595
But what really jumped out at me was the almost 16 foot

2044
01:55:00,835 --> 01:55:03,315
pylon that we're now attached to that I think was designed,

2045
01:55:03,735 --> 01:55:04,755
or I know was designed,

2046
01:55:04,755 --> 01:55:07,075
but we had, when you guys had the electronic messaging sign

2047
01:55:07,275 --> 01:55:10,435
attached to it, that depiction, it looked like

2048
01:55:12,015 --> 01:55:14,075
the sign started roughly four.

2049
01:55:14,215 --> 01:55:15,995
The bottom of the electronic messaging started

2050
01:55:15,995 --> 01:55:17,115
about four feet off the ground.

2051
01:55:17,535 --> 01:55:19,355
And then the D honey sign went all the way to the top.

2052
01:55:20,095 --> 01:55:22,315
Now, especially with the electronic messaging sign down,

2053
01:55:22,705 --> 01:55:25,995
does the opportunity exist to cut the pylon portion

2054
01:55:25,995 --> 01:55:27,555
of this, you know, almost in half.

2055
01:55:27,565 --> 01:55:28,995
Could we look, could you look

2056
01:55:28,995 --> 01:55:31,395
to almost reduce the overall size?

2057
01:55:31,815 --> 01:55:32,795
You know, that maybe it's

2058
01:55:32,795 --> 01:55:33,755
only coming up a little bit higher?

2059
01:55:36,055 --> 01:55:37,075
I'm Not sure. I, I don't, I I,

2060
01:55:37,295 --> 01:55:39,235
to be quite frank, I don't know the answer to that.

2061
01:55:39,475 --> 01:55:42,115
I mean, in my limited knowledge of signage and,

2062
01:55:42,255 --> 01:55:46,485
and you know, steel, yes, I think it's very possible,

2063
01:55:47,385 --> 01:55:49,005
but I can't, I'm not a sign expert,

2064
01:55:49,005 --> 01:55:50,045
so I can't speak to that.

2065
01:55:52,445 --> 01:55:53,685
Probably be a discussion we'd have to have

2066
01:55:53,685 --> 01:55:56,125
with the installer, I would think.

2067
01:55:57,155 --> 01:55:58,965
Okay. But not something that would, you'd

2068
01:55:58,965 --> 01:56:00,325
Be opposed to off The bat at this moment?

2069
01:56:02,045 --> 01:56:03,965
I mean, right now I can't give you an answer to it if

2070
01:56:03,965 --> 01:56:05,285
that's, if we're in the move of hearing to look at hearing

2071
01:56:05,505 --> 01:56:07,445
to look, I have no problem I guess

2072
01:56:07,585 --> 01:56:08,965
asking the question. Yeah.

2073
01:56:09,485 --> 01:56:11,525
I guess if, yeah, so I'll leave it at

2074
01:56:11,525 --> 01:56:15,045
That, you know, the, the board formed some questions and,

2075
01:56:15,145 --> 01:56:18,285
and went through with planning, you know,

2076
01:56:18,465 --> 01:56:21,845
and understanding, you know, the plight here.

2077
01:56:21,845 --> 01:56:26,405
Correct. Which is, you know, you're given approval

2078
01:56:27,065 --> 01:56:29,805
to operate a business there and,

2079
01:56:31,985 --> 01:56:35,645
and make use of, make a useful purpose of, of this parcel.

2080
01:56:35,985 --> 01:56:39,005
And you know, I think there's mixed reviews about that

2081
01:56:39,155 --> 01:56:40,365
with the abutters,

2082
01:56:40,425 --> 01:56:44,445
but you know, it's, it's, you know, the horse is out of the,

2083
01:56:44,545 --> 01:56:47,325
the barn on that part point, right.

2084
01:56:48,545 --> 01:56:52,285
But at some point, and it's within our own ordinances,

2085
01:56:52,285 --> 01:56:55,485
it establishes the criteria for the planning board to

2086
01:56:56,305 --> 01:56:59,805
review your site plan and, and what was going on there.

2087
01:57:00,265 --> 01:57:02,805
And it's, and it's pointed out that it was noted

2088
01:57:02,805 --> 01:57:07,445
that you had an existing location for a sign that was part

2089
01:57:07,445 --> 01:57:09,285
of your site plan.

2090
01:57:09,955 --> 01:57:13,685
What was your understanding of being able to have a sign

2091
01:57:14,065 --> 01:57:17,845
for, to operate at this business at that time?

2092
01:57:17,945 --> 01:57:18,945
Do you recall?

2093
01:57:19,765 --> 01:57:22,805
I, I don't recall. And I wasn't here at the time. I

2094
01:57:22,805 --> 01:57:24,405
Mean, it is noted on your site plan

2095
01:57:24,405 --> 01:57:27,925
that there would be a sign at that for this location.

2096
01:57:28,105 --> 01:57:29,925
And I think that's a legitimate thing. Yeah.

2097
01:57:29,925 --> 01:57:32,245
If, if I remember correctly, and I know that the, the,

2098
01:57:32,345 --> 01:57:33,765
the town officials have actually

2099
01:57:33,765 --> 01:57:34,845
changed since that point too.

2100
01:57:34,945 --> 01:57:36,245
I'd have to defer back to that,

2101
01:57:36,245 --> 01:57:37,645
those conversations if possible.

2102
01:57:37,945 --> 01:57:40,885
But I think the conversation at that point was that if I was

2103
01:57:40,885 --> 01:57:43,525
to move forward with doing anything, an additional signage,

2104
01:57:43,965 --> 01:57:45,205
I would be before you.

2105
01:57:45,475 --> 01:57:49,285
Yeah. Okay. I remember that was the understanding I had.

2106
01:57:50,945 --> 01:57:53,925
And but you at no time had any indication

2107
01:57:53,955 --> 01:57:56,045
that you would not be allowed to have a sign,

2108
01:57:56,105 --> 01:57:57,285
but that you would just have to

2109
01:57:57,385 --> 01:57:58,285
Go Oh, I was never given the

2110
01:57:58,285 --> 01:57:59,525
indication I wouldn't be allowed to have a sign.

2111
01:57:59,545 --> 01:58:01,965
No. Alright. Not this particular sign. A sign.

2112
01:58:01,965 --> 01:58:03,325
Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Okay. A hundred percent

2113
01:58:04,345 --> 01:58:04,885
Mr. Trip.

2114
01:58:05,565 --> 01:58:08,405
I was gonna say that I, I spent a lot of time

2115
01:58:09,325 --> 01:58:11,565
watching videos and that's

2116
01:58:12,105 --> 01:58:14,525
the exact Im impression I got.

2117
01:58:14,945 --> 01:58:18,365
And that's also the impression I got from reading the,

2118
01:58:18,385 --> 01:58:19,725
the planning board minutes.

2119
01:58:20,225 --> 01:58:24,765
You know, they pretty much washed their hands of any

2120
01:58:26,135 --> 01:58:30,085
assistance on what the method

2121
01:58:30,345 --> 01:58:33,965
for getting a sign would be, you know, which

2122
01:58:36,125 --> 01:58:37,685
I guess kind of makes sense.

2123
01:58:37,905 --> 01:58:41,685
But, you know, knowing that, as you said, the

2124
01:58:42,795 --> 01:58:46,245
this is, this is not, you know, a a commercial

2125
01:58:47,965 --> 01:58:50,885
district in, in town where there's lights everywhere,

2126
01:58:51,345 --> 01:58:55,125
as you said that, you know, there's, there's

2127
01:58:55,665 --> 01:58:59,805
no lights out on 180 7 H road, you know, so

2128
01:59:01,145 --> 01:59:05,325
you, you need a, a illuminated sign in order for people to,

2129
01:59:05,385 --> 01:59:08,685
to see it, you know, when the sun's down, you know.

2130
01:59:09,025 --> 01:59:12,605
So, you know, I I,

2131
01:59:12,925 --> 01:59:16,405
I don't wanna say that, that this is a, a,

2132
01:59:17,045 --> 01:59:21,605
a misstep in the, in the process for, for the planning board

2133
01:59:21,605 --> 01:59:24,965
because obviously, you know, that's what we're for,

2134
01:59:25,265 --> 01:59:30,085
you know, to make a determination of, you know,

2135
01:59:31,235 --> 01:59:34,645
what should be done in your particular situation.

2136
01:59:35,585 --> 01:59:38,125
And like I said, it's one of those things that, you know,

2137
01:59:38,185 --> 01:59:41,445
you need to have a sign that identifies

2138
01:59:41,455 --> 01:59:42,565
where your business is

2139
01:59:43,465 --> 01:59:47,205
and the sign should also, you know, give some indication as

2140
01:59:47,205 --> 01:59:48,925
to, you know, what services

2141
01:59:49,065 --> 01:59:51,805
or products you're, you're providing, you know, so it's,

2142
01:59:52,545 --> 01:59:53,565
and it needs to be led.

2143
01:59:54,795 --> 01:59:56,725
Yeah. That, that was my goal on the electronic greeter

2144
01:59:56,725 --> 01:59:57,885
board was to, to allow people

2145
01:59:57,885 --> 01:59:59,205
what services and products I have.

2146
01:59:59,205 --> 02:00:00,965
Yeah. But I'm now just looking

2147
02:00:01,025 --> 02:00:03,685
to now let people know I'm even there and open, so.

2148
02:00:03,715 --> 02:00:06,165
Yeah. Well, you know,

2149
02:00:06,325 --> 02:00:09,365
'cause you know, I, I spent considerable time driving

2150
02:00:09,365 --> 02:00:13,725
around, you know, dairy looking to see what kind of signs

2151
02:00:14,925 --> 02:00:19,125
businesses in, in rural areas have,

2152
02:00:19,825 --> 02:00:23,765
and I, I will admit that there,

2153
02:00:23,925 --> 02:00:26,965
I don't believe I've seen any that are illuminated, but,

2154
02:00:29,385 --> 02:00:34,035
but you know, the, they're

2155
02:00:34,575 --> 02:00:37,195
fairly close to the road, you know, to where they're,

2156
02:00:37,195 --> 02:00:41,635
they're highly observable now, which is, I think

2157
02:00:42,265 --> 02:00:44,755
your, your, your sign is probably 50 feet off the road.

2158
02:00:45,175 --> 02:00:46,955
No, it's not that far off. I think it might be 15,

2159
02:00:46,955 --> 02:00:49,075
20 feet off whatever the, the ordinance is. Yeah.

2160
02:00:49,495 --> 02:00:54,195
But it's, it's something that, you know, you have to,

2161
02:00:54,975 --> 02:00:58,475
you know, the, the sign has to serve its purpose, you know,

2162
02:00:58,815 --> 02:01:02,835
if if it's, if it's, if you, if you don't notice it,

2163
02:01:02,835 --> 02:01:04,075
then it's not serving its purpose

2164
02:01:04,215 --> 02:01:08,315
and you're, you're, you're not providing a

2165
02:01:11,135 --> 02:01:14,475
Was, sorry, I'm strip Was this rendering depicted,

2166
02:01:14,475 --> 02:01:16,435
do you know, depicted within the site plan that was

2167
02:01:16,635 --> 02:01:19,715
provided to planning with the pylon sign

2168
02:01:19,715 --> 02:01:21,595
and the electronic messaging? Or was that

2169
02:01:22,195 --> 02:01:23,235
I don't believe so. Okay.

2170
02:01:23,945 --> 02:01:26,115
Yeah, I'm not certain, but I don't believe so.

2171
02:01:28,095 --> 02:01:29,595
Mr. Don, any questions?

2172
02:01:30,075 --> 02:01:33,635
I do not to belabor the,

2173
02:01:33,775 --> 02:01:35,235
the light anymore,

2174
02:01:35,295 --> 02:01:38,395
but kind of stepping on the back of what Mr.

2175
02:01:38,405 --> 02:01:41,245
Tripp was saying, and an overarching question I have

2176
02:01:41,545 --> 02:01:46,085
for discussion is, I, I have seen

2177
02:01:46,595 --> 02:01:50,285
some, and I believe there was testimony last hearing

2178
02:01:50,865 --> 02:01:54,245
of lights that projected up at a sign, as opposed, does,

2179
02:01:54,395 --> 02:01:59,125
does anybody on the board have any thought as to this, any

2180
02:01:59,645 --> 02:02:03,685
material difference between a light,

2181
02:02:03,885 --> 02:02:06,605
a floodlight shining up at a sign as opposed to

2182
02:02:06,635 --> 02:02:07,805
what we keep referring to

2183
02:02:07,805 --> 02:02:10,245
as like a backlit sign in any material way?

2184
02:02:10,245 --> 02:02:12,845
Does that change your opinion of light luminescence?

2185
02:02:13,705 --> 02:02:15,365
We asked that specifically to planning

2186
02:02:15,665 --> 02:02:18,365
and we did, the answer we got back was just the definition

2187
02:02:18,505 --> 02:02:20,685
of what the difference between internal and external is.

2188
02:02:21,105 --> 02:02:23,685
So I actually, I, it makes me think it's material,

2189
02:02:24,145 --> 02:02:28,245
but I actually question honestly if everyone understands it.

2190
02:02:28,505 --> 02:02:30,205
And to this specific question.

2191
02:02:31,085 --> 02:02:32,405
I didn't see that one. Yeah.

2192
02:02:32,405 --> 02:02:36,565
It's at number four.

2193
02:02:39,915 --> 02:02:42,845
Yeah. Churches in residential neighborhoods shall not be

2194
02:02:42,845 --> 02:02:45,645
internally lit, but maybe externally lit.

2195
02:02:45,785 --> 02:02:48,045
And could you explain the significance of this

2196
02:02:49,105 --> 02:02:50,165
and externally lit?

2197
02:02:50,235 --> 02:02:51,245
Yeah. As Mr.

2198
02:02:51,315 --> 02:02:53,765
Corbitt said, all, all you got was the definition

2199
02:02:53,765 --> 02:02:56,685
between the differences, but not what the true,

2200
02:02:57,035 --> 02:02:58,525
what the intention was, which,

2201
02:02:58,705 --> 02:03:01,845
And certainly not in the context of, of, of this.

2202
02:03:02,415 --> 02:03:03,725
Right. Right. And,

2203
02:03:03,825 --> 02:03:05,125
and so as the board tries

2204
02:03:05,125 --> 02:03:07,725
to figure out what's just in this matter

2205
02:03:07,865 --> 02:03:09,725
and you're looking at the spirit of the ordinance

2206
02:03:09,745 --> 02:03:12,205
and what's appropriate for this use

2207
02:03:13,085 --> 02:03:16,525
getting you towards the hardship, this becomes kind

2208
02:03:16,525 --> 02:03:17,965
of a significant piece to it.

2209
02:03:18,255 --> 02:03:21,365
Right. What is the difference between the two?

2210
02:03:22,355 --> 02:03:24,925
Certainly. And, and that's the, the discussion, right.

2211
02:03:24,985 --> 02:03:29,245
And if the overarching objective is so that the sign is

2212
02:03:30,235 --> 02:03:32,805
able to be read in times of, you know,

2213
02:03:32,805 --> 02:03:33,925
the sun's not adequate.

2214
02:03:34,055 --> 02:03:37,485
Right. Do you find a material difference in

2215
02:03:37,505 --> 02:03:40,285
how it affects the surrounding areas as

2216
02:03:40,285 --> 02:03:42,165
to whether the light's shining up or out? Oh yeah.

2217
02:03:42,545 --> 02:03:43,845
So per, I didn't miss,

2218
02:03:43,885 --> 02:03:45,605
I didn't understand the question at first to me, yeah.

2219
02:03:45,885 --> 02:03:48,245
I would think that if it's externally lit, you know,

2220
02:03:48,245 --> 02:03:50,525
almost a flood light shining on it, I think about trick

2221
02:03:50,525 --> 02:03:52,445
or treating, you know, really when the houses have those

2222
02:03:52,475 --> 02:03:53,965
kind of projecting the kids

2223
02:03:53,985 --> 02:03:56,045
or somebody kicks it over within, you know,

2224
02:03:56,045 --> 02:03:57,645
the first three cars that pull up.

2225
02:03:58,105 --> 02:03:59,925
Now what happens when that flood light gets kicked

2226
02:03:59,925 --> 02:04:02,525
and now it's shining directly into an abutters window rather

2227
02:04:02,525 --> 02:04:04,165
than the internal lit that's just in

2228
02:04:04,165 --> 02:04:05,365
that one spot all the time?

2229
02:04:05,885 --> 02:04:08,245
I think you're opening up a lot of, a lot more cans

2230
02:04:08,245 --> 02:04:10,765
of worms if it was external myself.

2231
02:04:10,865 --> 02:04:11,865
But

2232
02:04:12,285 --> 02:04:13,445
I, I would tend to agree,

2233
02:04:13,465 --> 02:04:16,845
if you eliminate kids kicking it even right

2234
02:04:17,425 --> 02:04:19,445
to your point is, is like, I would think

2235
02:04:19,445 --> 02:04:23,725
that it would be more likely for a floodlight in,

2236
02:04:23,935 --> 02:04:25,965
let's just say that it faces east

2237
02:04:26,045 --> 02:04:27,525
and west for the sake of argument.

2238
02:04:27,915 --> 02:04:31,365
Anybody on a light that's facing east on the Eastwood side

2239
02:04:31,365 --> 02:04:32,365
of it is gonna,

2240
02:04:32,395 --> 02:04:34,525
it's gonna be more like a beam facing into the house

2241
02:04:34,525 --> 02:04:36,045
where this is just like radiant

2242
02:04:37,185 --> 02:04:39,405
and not as egregious in that manner.

2243
02:04:39,415 --> 02:04:42,285
Which I bring that up

2244
02:04:42,285 --> 02:04:44,565
because that was something that was discussed prior.

2245
02:04:45,785 --> 02:04:47,005
One of the opinions, let's

2246
02:04:47,005 --> 02:04:50,005
Go by the thinking, I think if I may, it, it,

2247
02:04:50,005 --> 02:04:51,845
it is also possible when you have those lights in the ground

2248
02:04:51,845 --> 02:04:54,805
that are facing up, that they can, they can be, you know,

2249
02:04:54,805 --> 02:04:57,645
manipulated and they could accidentally go somewhere.

2250
02:04:57,645 --> 02:05:00,045
They could also affect traffic if they point at the road.

2251
02:05:00,155 --> 02:05:02,325
I've, we've seen that in other towns that I've been in, so,

2252
02:05:03,035 --> 02:05:05,085
Well, I think something that, something else

2253
02:05:05,085 --> 02:05:09,245
that the voters mentioned at the last meeting was when,

2254
02:05:09,245 --> 02:05:12,685
when the light, when the sign was on all the time, they said

2255
02:05:12,685 --> 02:05:15,685
that it was very bright.

2256
02:05:16,685 --> 02:05:21,645
I noticed on your sheet that you handed out that the,

2257
02:05:22,905 --> 02:05:27,765
the Lutron has the ability

2258
02:05:27,785 --> 02:05:30,485
to, to dim the intensity of the,

2259
02:05:31,305 --> 02:05:33,285
the internal illumination. Is that correct?

2260
02:05:33,925 --> 02:05:35,965
I don't know the answer to that. It it, it may,

2261
02:05:36,605 --> 02:05:39,205
I just was focusing on, when I printed that out

2262
02:05:39,205 --> 02:05:41,045
for you folks, I was focusing on the fact

2263
02:05:41,045 --> 02:05:42,725
that it can go on at sunset.

2264
02:05:42,825 --> 02:05:45,605
Yes. And off at nine. I, I didn't do the research on that.

2265
02:05:45,635 --> 02:05:46,805
That might happen. That may happen.

2266
02:05:47,105 --> 02:05:49,565
But like I said, I think, I think that was, that was one

2267
02:05:49,565 --> 02:05:52,925
of the things that, that was the epiphany I had at the last

2268
02:05:52,925 --> 02:05:57,165
meeting is after listening into the abutters for an hour

2269
02:05:57,185 --> 02:06:00,165
or two, that it finally came down to, oh,

2270
02:06:00,165 --> 02:06:01,245
the light's on all the time

2271
02:06:01,265 --> 02:06:03,885
and it's really bright, you know, so we've,

2272
02:06:03,975 --> 02:06:06,205
we've solved the problem with the light being on all the

2273
02:06:06,205 --> 02:06:09,285
time, you know, and what I'm asking is, you know,

2274
02:06:09,385 --> 02:06:10,805
is there something that can be done

2275
02:06:10,805 --> 02:06:12,245
to make it not quite so bright,

2276
02:06:12,685 --> 02:06:13,685
Mr.

2277
02:06:13,685 --> 02:06:17,085
Trip? So per the document they gave us for the record

2278
02:06:17,645 --> 02:06:19,965
under number one at the third bullet point Yeah.

2279
02:06:20,785 --> 02:06:22,525
To set it, it says when you're turning it on

2280
02:06:22,525 --> 02:06:24,405
or setting for an event specifically Sunset,

2281
02:06:24,985 --> 02:06:27,285
you can select the action, select the lights you want,

2282
02:06:27,305 --> 02:06:30,045
set them to on, or a specific dimming percentage.

2283
02:06:30,075 --> 02:06:31,075
Yeah,

2284
02:06:31,485 --> 02:06:33,085
I, I would be happy to look into that.

2285
02:06:33,285 --> 02:06:34,645
I don't know the answer to that, but,

2286
02:06:34,845 --> 02:06:36,485
'cause like I said, date, Yeah, well obviously

2287
02:06:36,485 --> 02:06:38,845
that would matter on whatever fixture was on the other side.

2288
02:06:38,845 --> 02:06:40,245
Like not every light is dimmable,

2289
02:06:40,605 --> 02:06:41,965
so we don't know what's inside the sign.

2290
02:06:41,965 --> 02:06:43,205
Like if it's a fluorescent then no,

2291
02:06:43,505 --> 02:06:47,645
but if it's, yeah, certain LEDs and yes or incandescent.

2292
02:06:50,345 --> 02:06:52,325
Is it safe to say that it's,

2293
02:06:52,465 --> 02:06:55,645
if it's an internally lit based on this conversation,

2294
02:06:55,755 --> 02:06:59,285
that it's internally lit that it's an easier controlled

2295
02:06:59,855 --> 02:07:03,285
light than just having an external flood floodlight

2296
02:07:03,365 --> 02:07:04,685
flashing up on a sign?

2297
02:07:05,285 --> 02:07:07,805
I would think so. I would think the pictures

2298
02:07:07,805 --> 02:07:11,005
that we got last meeting of the steeple,

2299
02:07:11,065 --> 02:07:13,765
that's no longer really a steeple I think kind

2300
02:07:13,765 --> 02:07:15,165
of shows exactly where it can go wrong.

2301
02:07:15,165 --> 02:07:16,965
Where you now just have the bat signal, you know,

2302
02:07:16,965 --> 02:07:19,885
flying up into East Derry that internally lit.

2303
02:07:19,885 --> 02:07:23,645
Yeah, it's more like a nightlight. And I think to Mr.

2304
02:07:23,765 --> 02:07:25,205
Dallman's point, it's just kind of there

2305
02:07:26,165 --> 02:07:28,125
humming at you all the time, rather than blasting at you

2306
02:07:28,125 --> 02:07:29,325
depending on which angle you're at.

2307
02:07:30,225 --> 02:07:32,565
But again, we have seen that it is a little bright,

2308
02:07:32,585 --> 02:07:36,005
so I'd be curious on, you know, the looming capabilities

2309
02:07:36,005 --> 02:07:37,445
that we have to lower it.

2310
02:07:38,675 --> 02:07:41,405
Okay. Mr. Donlin, anything else?

2311
02:07:43,465 --> 02:07:44,605
Any questions at all or?

2312
02:07:45,545 --> 02:07:46,805
Not at this time, Mr. Chair.

2313
02:07:47,305 --> 02:07:48,965
Mr. Dietzel, I'd like

2314
02:07:48,965 --> 02:07:51,245
to know just a little bit more about the school.

2315
02:07:52,745 --> 02:07:54,285
Mr. I'm sorry.

2316
02:07:57,365 --> 02:07:59,365
I think I got a pretty good handle on the nursery,

2317
02:07:59,385 --> 02:08:01,085
but the school, exactly.

2318
02:08:01,115 --> 02:08:02,725
What are you you doing in there?

2319
02:08:04,155 --> 02:08:07,125
When my son was in little league there, there was a place,

2320
02:08:07,145 --> 02:08:08,805
it may still be there in Salem

2321
02:08:09,135 --> 02:08:12,285
where they had like indoor batting cages

2322
02:08:12,365 --> 02:08:14,965
and they had instruction instructions

2323
02:08:15,385 --> 02:08:18,645
and my son took a a, a class from a,

2324
02:08:18,845 --> 02:08:21,485
a catcher instructor down there

2325
02:08:21,625 --> 02:08:24,805
and they had the teams would go in there

2326
02:08:24,865 --> 02:08:26,765
and they'd have the spot for an hour.

2327
02:08:27,705 --> 02:08:30,645
It was basically a place of practice indoors in the winter.

2328
02:08:31,465 --> 02:08:33,205
And then they had instructors too.

2329
02:08:33,585 --> 02:08:36,365
What's the nature of your school? Who uses it?

2330
02:08:36,385 --> 02:08:39,965
Who are your clients? And the reason I'm asking is I'm

2331
02:08:39,965 --> 02:08:44,525
trying to establish the need for just general passer buys

2332
02:08:44,525 --> 02:08:46,525
to know that you're there versus people

2333
02:08:46,555 --> 02:08:51,285
that are showing up there specifically for instruction

2334
02:08:51,425 --> 02:08:53,005
or as a team or,

2335
02:08:54,835 --> 02:08:55,835
Sure.

2336
02:08:55,835 --> 02:08:56,885
No, I, I can answer that a hundred percent.

2337
02:08:57,385 --> 02:08:59,885
One, what you described, what you first described

2338
02:08:59,885 --> 02:09:01,325
that you took your son to is exactly

2339
02:09:01,325 --> 02:09:02,965
what we do on one side of things.

2340
02:09:03,605 --> 02:09:06,645
We have teams that come in from all surrounding areas

2341
02:09:07,875 --> 02:09:09,645
that come in with their, their groups.

2342
02:09:09,785 --> 02:09:13,605
Hu We have boy, every high school in the area,

2343
02:09:13,605 --> 02:09:15,525
Pinkerton Academy, London area High School,

2344
02:09:16,605 --> 02:09:19,805
Wyndham High School, Haverhill Salem,

2345
02:09:20,015 --> 02:09:22,525
which has turnover every year and every week.

2346
02:09:22,985 --> 02:09:24,805
So they have different players coming in,

2347
02:09:24,805 --> 02:09:26,165
they're just learning how to drive

2348
02:09:27,065 --> 02:09:28,445
or their parents are dropping 'em off.

2349
02:09:28,445 --> 02:09:30,845
So it's not just a one person that just is

2350
02:09:30,845 --> 02:09:32,085
with us for year after year.

2351
02:09:32,145 --> 02:09:33,285
So they need to know

2352
02:09:33,285 --> 02:09:35,845
where we are on any given day coming into us.

2353
02:09:35,905 --> 02:09:38,365
So that's one group. So the, the practicing,

2354
02:09:38,665 --> 02:09:41,445
we do instruction, catchers instruction, just like you said,

2355
02:09:41,475 --> 02:09:42,525
hitting instruction.

2356
02:09:42,525 --> 02:09:45,285
We have more technology than probably was there initially

2357
02:09:45,285 --> 02:09:46,605
when you went down with your son.

2358
02:09:46,905 --> 02:09:49,365
So we actually have classes and so forth that we go through

2359
02:09:49,365 --> 02:09:51,965
and talk about progressions on pitching and health

2360
02:09:52,065 --> 02:09:53,645
and fitness and arm care

2361
02:09:53,705 --> 02:09:56,405
and all the things that need to be done, which we do

2362
02:09:56,405 --> 02:09:58,965
with all kinds of individuals from all over the southern

2363
02:09:58,965 --> 02:10:01,445
New Hampshire and, and in northern Massachusetts region

2364
02:10:02,205 --> 02:10:03,885
we have little leagues everywhere from,

2365
02:10:04,165 --> 02:10:05,725
I believe Dairy Little League has come in.

2366
02:10:05,725 --> 02:10:09,045
We have Quinn Town, which is some towns west of us,

2367
02:10:09,545 --> 02:10:12,405
lampre River, Sanborn, all kinds

2368
02:10:12,405 --> 02:10:14,205
of people coming in for those type of things.

2369
02:10:14,275 --> 02:10:17,565
Most of those classes are evening classes in the winter.

2370
02:10:17,985 --> 02:10:19,285
And when I say evening in the winter,

2371
02:10:19,785 --> 02:10:22,805
I'm co considering evening after, after dark.

2372
02:10:23,225 --> 02:10:24,525
So after, you know,

2373
02:10:24,615 --> 02:10:27,325
after dinner time, so 5, 6, 7 o'clock at night,

2374
02:10:27,615 --> 02:10:29,685
these folks come in, they have a class,

2375
02:10:29,865 --> 02:10:31,725
we offer different mini camps,

2376
02:10:32,005 --> 02:10:33,445
pitching classes, hitting classes.

2377
02:10:34,025 --> 02:10:36,165
So I don't know if that a hundred percent

2378
02:10:36,485 --> 02:10:37,965
answered your question.

2379
02:10:38,025 --> 02:10:39,025
It does.

2380
02:10:39,465 --> 02:10:40,765
And if I may It does. Thank you.

2381
02:10:40,795 --> 02:10:42,525
Yeah, I'm sorry, does, I apologize.

2382
02:10:42,645 --> 02:10:45,045
I didn't mean to cut you off the, the last hearing.

2383
02:10:45,205 --> 02:10:47,325
I, I know, I, I tried to make the point to that

2384
02:10:47,325 --> 02:10:49,845
because of the nature of this baseball camp,

2385
02:10:49,845 --> 02:10:52,645
it's gonna bring people that aren't familiar with the area

2386
02:10:53,645 --> 02:10:54,805
that, that are not gonna be

2387
02:10:54,805 --> 02:10:55,965
generally familiar with the area.

2388
02:10:56,025 --> 02:10:57,125
So, okay, thank you.

2389
02:10:57,325 --> 02:10:59,885
'cause I think that was the thrust of my question. Yeah.

2390
02:11:00,395 --> 02:11:01,645
Because I mean,

2391
02:11:01,645 --> 02:11:04,085
you're not just gonna get some person off the

2392
02:11:04,085 --> 02:11:05,165
street driving by.

2393
02:11:05,685 --> 02:11:07,125
Somebody's going to be specifically

2394
02:11:07,125 --> 02:11:08,445
looking for that building.

2395
02:11:08,915 --> 02:11:11,365
It's not just, you know, some store

2396
02:11:11,415 --> 02:11:14,405
where some guy might be hungry and get a snack

2397
02:11:14,545 --> 02:11:15,685
and pass you by.

2398
02:11:15,885 --> 02:11:18,005
'cause he has no idea. You have your convenience store

2399
02:11:18,005 --> 02:11:22,165
there, it's people specifically going tour

2400
02:11:22,785 --> 02:11:25,525
to your business looking for it.

2401
02:11:25,905 --> 02:11:27,405
So if they had their GPS,

2402
02:11:27,535 --> 02:11:29,965
it'll say turn right here, or you have arrived.

2403
02:11:30,665 --> 02:11:34,525
And my GPS sometimes it's too late

2404
02:11:35,025 --> 02:11:37,205
and by the time it says you have arrived,

2405
02:11:37,625 --> 02:11:39,445
I'm 50 feet past the entrance

2406
02:11:39,985 --> 02:11:44,925
and I know that street, there's a difficult, it's difficult

2407
02:11:44,945 --> 02:11:46,445
to find a place to turn around

2408
02:11:46,945 --> 02:11:48,845
and especially if the traffic is heavy.

2409
02:11:49,865 --> 02:11:54,045
And so I'm, I'm just trying to picture myself as a customer

2410
02:11:55,425 --> 02:11:58,685
and how much I would need a sign there

2411
02:12:00,545 --> 02:12:01,885
and I'll, I'll ponder that.

2412
02:12:01,905 --> 02:12:03,525
So thank you. You've answered true in,

2413
02:12:03,525 --> 02:12:04,685
In, in a lot of the,

2414
02:12:04,705 --> 02:12:07,645
the business we had this winter just being open

2415
02:12:07,665 --> 02:12:08,765
and being new to the area.

2416
02:12:08,945 --> 02:12:11,885
And you know, the turnover will continue is

2417
02:12:11,885 --> 02:12:13,805
that Hampstead Road is a busy road

2418
02:12:14,145 --> 02:12:16,565
and it does connect the town of Derry to other towns.

2419
02:12:16,565 --> 02:12:18,805
Now it connects it to sand down Chester

2420
02:12:19,315 --> 02:12:21,085
Hampstead in a significant amount

2421
02:12:21,085 --> 02:12:22,565
of the business we were able to gain where,

2422
02:12:22,565 --> 02:12:23,925
because b people drove by

2423
02:12:24,505 --> 02:12:26,525
and, you know, someone from Hampstead, little league,

2424
02:12:26,525 --> 02:12:27,685
little league stopped in

2425
02:12:27,685 --> 02:12:29,165
and said, Hey, what are you guys about?

2426
02:12:29,305 --> 02:12:31,765
So yeah, that, that certainly is a need

2427
02:12:31,825 --> 02:12:33,725
for sure on both ends of the spectrum.

2428
02:12:33,905 --> 02:12:36,285
Yes. What you spoke to of coming down the street

2429
02:12:36,285 --> 02:12:38,005
with your GPS, you know, on

2430
02:12:38,145 --> 02:12:39,885
and folks just knowing our presence.

2431
02:12:41,755 --> 02:12:43,765
Okay, thank you. Anything else Mr. Diesel?

2432
02:12:44,065 --> 02:12:46,725
No, thank you Mr. Mr. Ani or Mr. Lusca, you have

2433
02:12:47,085 --> 02:12:48,085
Anything?

2434
02:12:48,085 --> 02:12:48,605
Actually, I do have a little bit.

2435
02:12:49,965 --> 02:12:51,965
I didn't realize in the first one we were always talking

2436
02:12:51,965 --> 02:12:55,565
about illumination, how bright it was that crown

2437
02:12:56,505 --> 02:12:59,645
is a very bright crown in the very top of the post

2438
02:13:00,625 --> 02:13:02,325
and that does quite a bit

2439
02:13:02,325 --> 02:13:04,565
of illumination when it was still going on.

2440
02:13:04,565 --> 02:13:05,685
It went by there a couple times

2441
02:13:05,785 --> 02:13:07,525
and it was the brightest part

2442
02:13:07,525 --> 02:13:10,765
where the sign wasn't the biggest offense, but that top was.

2443
02:13:12,545 --> 02:13:14,565
And I just, one other question I have for you.

2444
02:13:14,965 --> 02:13:16,165
I I could be wrong.

2445
02:13:16,285 --> 02:13:17,605
I thought when we were talking before,

2446
02:13:17,705 --> 02:13:19,645
and you're talking about your nursery

2447
02:13:19,685 --> 02:13:22,205
and landscaping, you weren't open for the public,

2448
02:13:22,345 --> 02:13:26,765
you were open for landscapers commercially?

2449
02:13:27,105 --> 02:13:29,005
No, I don't, I don't think I misrepresented that. Okay.

2450
02:13:29,005 --> 02:13:30,125
We've always been open to the public.

2451
02:13:30,565 --> 02:13:33,285
I just want to deal with more landscape customers. Okay.

2452
02:13:33,385 --> 02:13:34,565
We are still open to the public.

2453
02:13:35,625 --> 02:13:38,605
We don't actively, if you live in town, which you all do,

2454
02:13:38,605 --> 02:13:41,165
obviously you're not seeing us market ourselves out in

2455
02:13:41,165 --> 02:13:44,645
newspapers or ads or anywhere else for, for retail.

2456
02:13:44,945 --> 02:13:46,925
But we're happy to sell something to you if you come in.

2457
02:13:46,925 --> 02:13:47,845
But I predominantly our

2458
02:13:48,085 --> 02:13:49,485
businesses is the wholesale business.

2459
02:13:49,605 --> 02:13:51,725
Alright. And I was, I misunderstood that part.

2460
02:13:52,435 --> 02:13:54,805
Well, and, and in the planning notes I saw

2461
02:13:54,805 --> 02:13:57,525
that it was indicated that it was primarily wholesale.

2462
02:13:58,065 --> 02:14:00,485
So I didn't see any mis anything

2463
02:14:00,495 --> 02:14:02,045
misleading about that at all.

2464
02:14:02,645 --> 02:14:05,125
I think other commentary I heard suggested that

2465
02:14:06,105 --> 02:14:08,405
the public may have been deceived by this,

2466
02:14:08,505 --> 02:14:11,365
but I think that based on the application I saw

2467
02:14:11,365 --> 02:14:14,165
with the planning board, they were very open about

2468
02:14:14,615 --> 02:14:15,805
their intentions there.

2469
02:14:17,555 --> 02:14:19,245
Yeah. So that's the part.

2470
02:14:19,305 --> 02:14:21,445
So, you know, when we're talking about mono illuminations,

2471
02:14:21,755 --> 02:14:24,725
when you compare the sign with the top,

2472
02:14:25,245 --> 02:14:27,325
you see a dramatically chi difference.

2473
02:14:27,475 --> 02:14:29,205
Yeah. I'm not sure what you mean by the top.

2474
02:14:29,225 --> 02:14:30,565
Do you mean the, the top sign,

2475
02:14:30,665 --> 02:14:34,885
The very, the very crown it says down lighting

2476
02:14:34,945 --> 02:14:38,365
and that's not down lighting that's illuminating that top

2477
02:14:39,345 --> 02:14:42,645
It, it is down lighting, although I agree with you, it is

2478
02:14:43,045 --> 02:14:45,565
Brighter almost nut It is brighter than it needs to be

2479
02:14:46,345 --> 02:14:49,085
for what the purpose it serves, it serves the purpose

2480
02:14:49,185 --> 02:14:52,525
of showing the address of the, the, the building.

2481
02:14:52,685 --> 02:14:54,005
I see. Which is, is something

2482
02:14:54,005 --> 02:14:55,445
that is a public safety concern.

2483
02:14:55,565 --> 02:14:57,125
I, you know, believe police and fire need

2484
02:14:57,125 --> 02:14:58,485
to know that address.

2485
02:14:58,795 --> 02:15:00,885
That being said, as I just just mentioned

2486
02:15:00,885 --> 02:15:03,365
to my attorney here, I'm completely fine

2487
02:15:03,485 --> 02:15:04,725
with removing those lights.

2488
02:15:05,365 --> 02:15:07,845
I I have no concern with that whatsoever.

2489
02:15:08,245 --> 02:15:11,805
I think they are somewhat unnecessary to, to, to,

2490
02:15:11,945 --> 02:15:13,925
to gentleman's concern.

2491
02:15:13,945 --> 02:15:16,765
And if, if we feel as though the sign is bright enough to

2492
02:15:17,445 --> 02:15:20,485
continue to illuminate the, the address, I have no concerns.

2493
02:15:21,435 --> 02:15:23,605
Okay. And else Mr. Ani?

2494
02:15:23,705 --> 02:15:25,765
No, that was the only questions I had. Thank you. All

2495
02:15:25,765 --> 02:15:26,485
Right Mr. Sca.

2496
02:15:26,905 --> 02:15:29,245
I'm all set. Mr. Chair. Mr. Jen, you all set?

2497
02:15:29,665 --> 02:15:33,045
I'm all set. Okay. Anybody else have any questions?

2498
02:15:34,035 --> 02:15:36,405
Alright, well we're gonna go to Republic and,

2499
02:15:36,505 --> 02:15:37,765
and get some rebuttal there.

2500
02:15:38,015 --> 02:15:39,045
Thank you. Thank you very much.

2501
02:15:40,595 --> 02:15:43,925
Alright folks, I'm sure somebody would like to come up

2502
02:15:43,925 --> 02:15:45,245
and speak here.

2503
02:15:45,945 --> 02:15:47,885
Is there anybody that wants to speak in favor

2504
02:15:47,905 --> 02:15:48,965
of this application?

2505
02:15:50,825 --> 02:15:53,325
So, you know, okay, I was just clarifying you. Yes sir.

2506
02:16:05,665 --> 02:16:07,765
My name is Jim Foley.

2507
02:16:07,965 --> 02:16:11,205
I live at 1 78 Hamstead Road here in Derry

2508
02:16:11,225 --> 02:16:13,125
and I'm a direct ofbut to the

2509
02:16:13,835 --> 02:16:16,485
applicant's property.

2510
02:16:16,965 --> 02:16:19,445
I kind of feel like the

2511
02:16:20,745 --> 02:16:23,965
Tom Hank's character in Forrest Gump when he went

2512
02:16:23,965 --> 02:16:25,845
to the White House for the third time.

2513
02:16:25,845 --> 02:16:30,165
Here we are again. So a couple of things.

2514
02:16:30,735 --> 02:16:33,805
First of all, I just wanna make it clear that we seem

2515
02:16:33,805 --> 02:16:35,005
to be getting on the path again

2516
02:16:35,005 --> 02:16:37,565
of conflating the business with the sign.

2517
02:16:38,545 --> 02:16:41,405
We know what the business does, we understand the business,

2518
02:16:41,465 --> 02:16:43,805
we understand how it, what it brings to the town.

2519
02:16:44,635 --> 02:16:47,085
Nonetheless, this variance is for the sign.

2520
02:16:48,025 --> 02:16:52,285
The second thing is, I want to reiterate is the fact

2521
02:16:52,435 --> 02:16:56,245
that the planning board said that this is approved use on

2522
02:16:56,245 --> 02:17:00,165
that lot does not turn that lot into commercial zone.

2523
02:17:02,025 --> 02:17:06,805
And the continual effort to bootstrap that it's appropriate

2524
02:17:06,805 --> 02:17:08,245
to have a sign for this type

2525
02:17:08,245 --> 02:17:10,525
of business does not apply here.

2526
02:17:11,985 --> 02:17:13,605
But my main argument is this.

2527
02:17:15,105 --> 02:17:17,605
And it was not addressed in any of the hearings previous

2528
02:17:17,605 --> 02:17:22,085
to this or again, tonight the court ruled

2529
02:17:22,995 --> 02:17:27,225
that the applicant has not shown the unnecessary hardship

2530
02:17:28,365 --> 02:17:29,585
to grant this variance.

2531
02:17:30,215 --> 02:17:33,425
Nothing has changed in that land

2532
02:17:34,755 --> 02:17:36,385
since the court made its ruling

2533
02:17:37,415 --> 02:17:39,345
that there is no unnecessary hardship.

2534
02:17:40,565 --> 02:17:43,905
The lots the same size, the buildings are the same,

2535
02:17:44,365 --> 02:17:46,785
the buildings are the same distance off of the property.

2536
02:17:47,565 --> 02:17:50,225
The parking lots are same, the trees are the same,

2537
02:17:50,525 --> 02:17:53,185
the bushes are the same, the neighborhood is the same,

2538
02:17:53,485 --> 02:17:54,625
the zoning is the same.

2539
02:17:55,365 --> 02:17:58,305
But this is not an area of variance. It's a use variance.

2540
02:17:58,445 --> 02:18:01,185
And so you struck the cord about hardship

2541
02:18:01,325 --> 02:18:03,225
and so we're gonna get to that in just a minute.

2542
02:18:03,325 --> 02:18:05,745
But how do you disseminate the difference between

2543
02:18:06,255 --> 02:18:09,825
what you're, you're citing, which is the area variance,

2544
02:18:10,145 --> 02:18:13,905
frontage, square foot, whatever, and the use variance,

2545
02:18:14,685 --> 02:18:15,685
The Court.

2546
02:18:15,685 --> 02:18:16,345
And that's what we're talking about. Court already

2547
02:18:16,355 --> 02:18:17,355
Ruled on that.

2548
02:18:18,605 --> 02:18:20,265
The court already ruled on that.

2549
02:18:21,045 --> 02:18:23,065
But, but this is not that case, Jim.

2550
02:18:23,125 --> 02:18:24,225
And you have to make the, it

2551
02:18:24,225 --> 02:18:25,225
Is the exact same case.

2552
02:18:25,285 --> 02:18:27,185
You have to make the argument for this.

2553
02:18:27,245 --> 02:18:28,865
If you want to hear the board's ears

2554
02:18:30,255 --> 02:18:32,705
Make the argument for what I made the argument in front

2555
02:18:32,705 --> 02:18:34,065
of the superior court in one, it

2556
02:18:34,065 --> 02:18:35,065
Has nothing to do with this case.

2557
02:18:35,065 --> 02:18:37,985
This board has found this to be a new application and

2558
02:18:37,985 --> 02:18:39,825
therefore you have to present to this.

2559
02:18:39,925 --> 02:18:42,625
And now my question to you is this, which is,

2560
02:18:42,625 --> 02:18:45,345
this is a use variance, not an area variance.

2561
02:18:45,765 --> 02:18:48,065
How do you disseminate and how do you correct that?

2562
02:18:48,295 --> 02:18:49,305
Then I would direct the,

2563
02:18:49,425 --> 02:18:51,625
I would ask the the board to look at the same fact.

2564
02:18:51,805 --> 02:18:53,465
You can come in front of this board as many times

2565
02:18:53,525 --> 02:18:55,345
as you want and you can bring up as many

2566
02:18:55,945 --> 02:18:58,705
different variations of this sign that you want.

2567
02:18:59,365 --> 02:19:03,745
If it doesn't meet the residential sign agreements, it does.

2568
02:19:03,895 --> 02:19:06,305
It's, it's, it's, it doesn't, it's not valid

2569
02:19:06,515 --> 02:19:07,515
Court.

2570
02:19:07,515 --> 02:19:10,185
So do you, do you not agree, Jim, that is

2571
02:19:10,185 --> 02:19:11,105
There any opportunity that I

2572
02:19:11,105 --> 02:19:12,785
could actually finish the sentence? Sure.

2573
02:19:12,805 --> 02:19:14,665
Go ahead and finish the sentence. And

2574
02:19:14,665 --> 02:19:16,545
That's exactly what the court ruled.

2575
02:19:16,545 --> 02:19:19,265
There is no unnecessary hardship in this.

2576
02:19:19,325 --> 02:19:21,585
He was asking for a use variance before

2577
02:19:21,805 --> 02:19:23,145
and putting the sign up.

2578
02:19:24,045 --> 02:19:25,625
So are you done with your sentence?

2579
02:19:25,645 --> 02:19:28,445
So now I can interject and ask you a question. Sure.

2580
02:19:28,575 --> 02:19:33,405
Which is, isn't there a hardship when they

2581
02:19:33,425 --> 02:19:37,205
can establish a business as a use variance in

2582
02:19:37,235 --> 02:19:40,085
what should go on with what should be part

2583
02:19:40,085 --> 02:19:41,205
of a business use?

2584
02:19:41,205 --> 02:19:45,525
Because I get, I get lost when you say that the,

2585
02:19:46,995 --> 02:19:51,085
that this is an application for a sign or, or just

2586
02:19:51,085 --> 02:19:52,805
because the business is approved

2587
02:19:52,945 --> 02:19:55,245
or as a use, it doesn't authorize it

2588
02:19:55,245 --> 02:19:57,245
to operate as a business. I don't quite

2589
02:19:57,385 --> 02:19:58,685
Get that. I didn't, I did not say that.

2590
02:19:58,835 --> 02:20:00,525
Well go ahead and clarify The argument in front

2591
02:20:00,525 --> 02:20:03,685
of the superior court and you were there was that

2592
02:20:05,465 --> 02:20:07,205
You keep bringing up the prior case.

2593
02:20:07,465 --> 02:20:09,245
And as you would know at any,

2594
02:20:09,425 --> 02:20:11,245
at any other time, if you remove this, it's

2595
02:20:11,245 --> 02:20:12,365
Going back to the superior court.

2596
02:20:12,545 --> 02:20:15,245
But the statute is that that that

2597
02:20:16,275 --> 02:20:19,405
that a decision on one case is not a, a,

2598
02:20:19,965 --> 02:20:21,725
a prerequisite for another.

2599
02:20:22,505 --> 02:20:23,765
But the fact is, is

2600
02:20:23,765 --> 02:20:26,605
that the precedent has been set, has it not?

2601
02:20:27,845 --> 02:20:29,365
I don't know that it has. What's

2602
02:20:29,365 --> 02:20:30,525
that? I don't know that it has

2603
02:20:30,675 --> 02:20:33,565
Then, then, then I think that you're completely wrong

2604
02:20:33,565 --> 02:20:35,725
and out of bounds on that, the precedents have been set,

2605
02:20:36,225 --> 02:20:39,165
the sign that was that the applicant a application was

2606
02:20:39,165 --> 02:20:42,725
before didn't fit the sign requirements

2607
02:20:42,745 --> 02:20:43,885
of a residential area,

2608
02:20:45,265 --> 02:20:47,925
nor does this sign, even though it's different than

2609
02:20:47,925 --> 02:20:49,045
the sign that was done before.

2610
02:20:49,985 --> 02:20:52,685
And I don't Understand if they don't want, they want

2611
02:20:52,685 --> 02:20:55,885
to put up an oversized commercial sign in a residential

2612
02:20:55,885 --> 02:20:57,645
area, whatever the design of

2613
02:20:57,645 --> 02:21:00,405
that sign is doesn't change that fact.

2614
02:21:00,785 --> 02:21:03,125
So so why do you say it's oversized?

2615
02:21:03,595 --> 02:21:07,125
Because there's in within the I don't think I need to,

2616
02:21:07,285 --> 02:21:09,005
I don't educate the board on

2617
02:21:09,005 --> 02:21:11,605
what signs are allowed in a residential area. Do I?

2618
02:21:11,915 --> 02:21:14,205
Well what what happens is that, that one

2619
02:21:14,205 --> 02:21:17,405
of your other abutters has pointed out the last hearing

2620
02:21:17,545 --> 02:21:19,845
what's, what's an appropriate size for this.

2621
02:21:20,105 --> 02:21:22,405
And he enlightened the board to something

2622
02:21:22,435 --> 02:21:24,765
that caused ma a few of us

2623
02:21:24,785 --> 02:21:28,085
to start researching the three pages of our town ordinances.

2624
02:21:28,425 --> 02:21:31,005
And that is the, the square footage of signs

2625
02:21:31,025 --> 02:21:33,845
that's appropriate usually under the planning board's

2626
02:21:33,855 --> 02:21:37,445
discretion often saw, seen at the beginning

2627
02:21:37,465 --> 02:21:39,525
of a development or a street.

2628
02:21:40,465 --> 02:21:44,325
And, and the questions from the board to the, from the board

2629
02:21:44,385 --> 02:21:48,085
to the planning director are, are the significance

2630
02:21:48,185 --> 02:21:50,485
of the variations of the different sizes

2631
02:21:50,485 --> 02:21:53,365
that are permitted in the ordinances through the town.

2632
02:21:54,585 --> 02:21:57,605
One sign identifying a multifamily complex development

2633
02:21:57,605 --> 02:21:59,285
should be allowed, provided that does not exceed

2634
02:21:59,285 --> 02:22:00,725
24 square feet in area.

2635
02:22:00,775 --> 02:22:05,125
Right. Residents may erect a single free standing sign not

2636
02:22:05,125 --> 02:22:08,205
exceed, exceeding three square feet in area showing the

2637
02:22:08,205 --> 02:22:11,205
owner's name and or address pupil conducting home

2638
02:22:11,315 --> 02:22:14,125
occupations may further erect a single sign not

2639
02:22:14,125 --> 02:22:16,805
to exceed three square feet, if so approved

2640
02:22:16,805 --> 02:22:18,605
by the zoning board of adjustment. So

2641
02:22:18,605 --> 02:22:21,085
Where's the part in there about a church in a,

2642
02:22:21,105 --> 02:22:25,525
in a residential zone allowed to have a 24 square foot sign?

2643
02:22:26,505 --> 02:22:28,645
Are you citing that because that's,

2644
02:22:28,645 --> 02:22:29,845
that's, that's, it's not a church.

2645
02:22:30,425 --> 02:22:31,725
It doesn't matter. It's not a church.

2646
02:22:31,755 --> 02:22:34,365
It's, it's what the, what the board's going to look at is

2647
02:22:34,365 --> 02:22:35,685
what is the spirit of the ordinance?

2648
02:22:35,955 --> 02:22:37,085
What is the hardship?

2649
02:22:37,505 --> 02:22:40,125
And those are the questions that starts being hardship here.

2650
02:22:40,395 --> 02:22:42,045
What is the hardship? What a, what

2651
02:22:42,645 --> 02:22:44,045
hardship has the application,

2652
02:22:44,105 --> 02:22:46,965
has the applicant put forth in any of these hearings

2653
02:22:47,105 --> 02:22:48,405
to have that oversized?

2654
02:22:49,025 --> 02:22:51,765
Do you not think that a, that a business use in a,

2655
02:22:51,785 --> 02:22:55,325
in an unusual circumstance is not a hardship if

2656
02:22:55,325 --> 02:22:56,925
they cannot have a sign? No,

2657
02:22:56,925 --> 02:22:57,925
Don't.

2658
02:22:57,925 --> 02:23:00,085
As a matter of fact, a matter of fact the exact case on that

2659
02:23:00,665 --> 02:23:02,205
is carbon all versus the town

2660
02:23:02,205 --> 02:23:05,205
of Exter one 19 New Hampshire 2 59.

2661
02:23:05,395 --> 02:23:07,725
Okay. Ver Verbatim on that very point.

2662
02:23:08,065 --> 02:23:10,605
The fact that, that as little,

2663
02:23:10,605 --> 02:23:13,325
that this claim hardship has little to do

2664
02:23:13,325 --> 02:23:15,125
with the property's physical attributes.

2665
02:23:15,545 --> 02:23:17,805
It it, but this isn't about physical attribute,

2666
02:23:18,345 --> 02:23:19,445
but what is this is about,

2667
02:23:19,585 --> 02:23:21,205
you keep going back to Can I finish?

2668
02:23:21,345 --> 02:23:23,205
No, you can, you, you, you can give

2669
02:23:23,205 --> 02:23:24,685
and take a little bit, Jim. No,

2670
02:23:24,685 --> 02:23:25,685
I'm not.

2671
02:23:25,685 --> 02:23:27,085
This is, but this seems to be all but this

2672
02:23:27,085 --> 02:23:28,365
Is the but this is the point.

2673
02:23:28,675 --> 02:23:31,085
Okay. You make a point and you want a filibuster,

2674
02:23:31,145 --> 02:23:32,445
but you don't want do, I'm not filibuster

2675
02:23:32,625 --> 02:23:33,625
I'm trying to read the end of the

2676
02:23:33,765 --> 02:23:34,765
Sentence.

2677
02:23:34,765 --> 02:23:35,285
But here here's the point, okay.

2678
02:23:35,495 --> 02:23:38,805
Which is you keep citing that this is an area variance

2679
02:23:38,805 --> 02:23:40,925
and it's not, it's a use variance and those are

2680
02:23:40,925 --> 02:23:42,005
Different. This is, I do

2681
02:23:42,005 --> 02:23:43,005
Not see that.

2682
02:23:43,005 --> 02:23:45,085
And now that you're citing carbon V versus Exeter,

2683
02:23:45,105 --> 02:23:48,445
you're talking about about a, an area variance

2684
02:23:48,445 --> 02:23:51,085
and you're not using the, the, the proper terminology,

2685
02:23:51,095 --> 02:23:52,325
which is a use variance.

2686
02:23:53,305 --> 02:23:54,885
The business preference

2687
02:23:55,025 --> 02:23:59,285
and nu the claim hardship has little to do

2688
02:23:59,285 --> 02:24:01,005
with the property's physical attributes,

2689
02:24:01,305 --> 02:24:03,085
but with bird's business preference

2690
02:24:03,085 --> 02:24:07,165
and economic strategies, carbon all says

2691
02:24:07,685 --> 02:24:10,085
specifically the fact that you can't do

2692
02:24:10,185 --> 02:24:12,965
as well without the sign is not a reason

2693
02:24:12,965 --> 02:24:16,045
to overcome a hardship use specifically.

2694
02:24:17,355 --> 02:24:20,445
This is the we, they went before the superior court

2695
02:24:20,445 --> 02:24:22,485
and you can talk all you want that that was that case.

2696
02:24:22,595 --> 02:24:24,165
There's no significant difference

2697
02:24:24,195 --> 02:24:25,805
between the request in this one,

2698
02:24:26,295 --> 02:24:29,845
which is a sign oversized commercial sign in a residential

2699
02:24:29,845 --> 02:24:33,485
area and the previous one which you lost.

2700
02:24:34,305 --> 02:24:36,485
And that seems to be a bone of contention with you all.

2701
02:24:38,205 --> 02:24:39,525
I don't think the fact of the matter is fact

2702
02:24:39,525 --> 02:24:41,325
that we lost is a bone of contention. Oh,

2703
02:24:41,325 --> 02:24:43,685
You, that re was reversed.

2704
02:24:44,795 --> 02:24:48,325
Your, your application, your, your decision was reversed

2705
02:24:48,515 --> 02:24:52,685
because there was no evidence brought up, nothing

2706
02:24:52,685 --> 02:24:54,685
that was said at the hearings

2707
02:24:54,865 --> 02:24:59,085
or in the Superior Court hearing that said that there was an

2708
02:24:59,725 --> 02:25:02,405
undue hardship with contained within the land

2709
02:25:03,035 --> 02:25:05,245
that would allow the erection of that sign.

2710
02:25:06,025 --> 02:25:08,365
The difference is it didn't get specified in the,

2711
02:25:08,365 --> 02:25:11,205
in the certified record, Jim, that's

2712
02:25:11,205 --> 02:25:12,205
It.

2713
02:25:12,205 --> 02:25:13,765
Oh, no, that's, that's not, that's not true.

2714
02:25:14,035 --> 02:25:16,805
That is true. I would ask you then

2715
02:25:16,805 --> 02:25:18,605
to read section three of the court's ruling

2716
02:25:18,945 --> 02:25:21,685
who found within the certified record, found within

2717
02:25:21,685 --> 02:25:25,055
what passes for a certified record found within

2718
02:25:25,125 --> 02:25:27,535
that certified record that the court had failed.

2719
02:25:27,535 --> 02:25:30,615
That this board had failed to find the unnecessary hardship

2720
02:25:31,155 --> 02:25:33,255
and nothing has changed since that time.

2721
02:25:33,765 --> 02:25:35,095
Okay. The lot is the same.

2722
02:25:35,475 --> 02:25:38,015
The buildings are the same, the distance off is the same.

2723
02:25:38,315 --> 02:25:40,215
So you can throw up any sort of on sort

2724
02:25:40,215 --> 02:25:41,975
of changes in the sign that you wish to.

2725
02:25:42,275 --> 02:25:44,375
The fact of the matter is nothing has changed,

2726
02:25:44,795 --> 02:25:47,175
has not overcome that aspect of it.

2727
02:25:47,315 --> 02:25:49,135
The court found on the other, on the other

2728
02:25:49,695 --> 02:25:53,095
variance request, there was no record. I agree with that.

2729
02:25:53,365 --> 02:25:54,855
Okay. Well, that's what I said.

2730
02:25:54,955 --> 02:25:57,335
But you went on telling me that wasn't the case and

2731
02:25:57,355 --> 02:25:59,255
The unnecessary hardship.

2732
02:25:59,475 --> 02:26:01,415
He found evidence,

2733
02:26:02,915 --> 02:26:06,415
he separated this into three separate areas.

2734
02:26:06,465 --> 02:26:07,655
Three separate sections.

2735
02:26:07,845 --> 02:26:10,775
Section three unnecessary hardship found.

2736
02:26:10,775 --> 02:26:13,815
He said there's sufficient evidence from the ruling below

2737
02:26:13,885 --> 02:26:15,215
that no hardship existed.

2738
02:26:17,155 --> 02:26:19,295
That's what the, that's what the decision says.

2739
02:26:19,525 --> 02:26:20,695
It's clearly in the decision.

2740
02:26:22,045 --> 02:26:24,575
Okay. Go ahead. Finish up.

2741
02:26:24,855 --> 02:26:27,855
I, there's nothing else to be said.

2742
02:26:28,155 --> 02:26:29,895
The fact of the matter is, is thank you.

2743
02:26:29,915 --> 02:26:32,175
The applicant has not, has not

2744
02:26:33,335 --> 02:26:34,815
overcome the unnecessary hardship

2745
02:26:34,915 --> 02:26:37,815
and quite frankly, hasn't even argued about any

2746
02:26:37,815 --> 02:26:39,375
of the other, hasn't presented any

2747
02:26:39,375 --> 02:26:41,615
of the evidence about the other ones about substantial

2748
02:26:41,615 --> 02:26:44,255
justice, spirits of the ordinance contra the public

2749
02:26:44,575 --> 02:26:45,735
interest or land values.

2750
02:26:46,825 --> 02:26:48,735
Would you like him to come up and do that? Now?

2751
02:26:50,395 --> 02:26:51,695
I'm sure he'll come up with a rebuttal,

2752
02:26:52,275 --> 02:26:54,335
But that'd be do it before it's his right. I

2753
02:26:54,335 --> 02:26:55,335
Don't, I really don't.

2754
02:26:55,335 --> 02:26:57,655
You know, you, you folks sit there and say,

2755
02:26:57,655 --> 02:26:58,855
and get all concerned

2756
02:26:58,855 --> 02:27:01,015
because we appear to be confrontational.

2757
02:27:02,205 --> 02:27:05,975
Well, this is why you don't seem to take us seriously. Don't

2758
02:27:05,975 --> 02:27:07,215
You take, take it very seriously.

2759
02:27:07,595 --> 02:27:10,215
And what you can, what you can see if you watch the last

2760
02:27:10,215 --> 02:27:13,695
hearing is your demeanor versus the that of your neighbors'.

2761
02:27:13,695 --> 02:27:15,055
We heard nothing different

2762
02:27:15,395 --> 02:27:16,735
But your behavior versus

2763
02:27:16,805 --> 02:27:18,015
that of your neighbors and your behavior.

2764
02:27:18,205 --> 02:27:20,735
What, sir? There was a nicer exchange versus your,

2765
02:27:20,885 --> 02:27:22,615
your blasting us.

2766
02:27:22,915 --> 02:27:25,055
And, and when we, when you try to make a point

2767
02:27:25,355 --> 02:27:26,575
and I try to interject

2768
02:27:26,595 --> 02:27:29,215
and ask that question interrupt to understand my abuse,

2769
02:27:29,275 --> 02:27:31,535
you can, you can terminology put it whatever

2770
02:27:31,535 --> 02:27:32,815
terminology you want.

2771
02:27:33,125 --> 02:27:34,125
Okay.

2772
02:27:34,675 --> 02:27:36,975
But You, if, if you wanna make bullet points just to

2773
02:27:36,975 --> 02:27:38,335
what you've said so it's clear for the record,

2774
02:27:38,405 --> 02:27:39,495
feel free. I won't interrupt.

2775
02:27:39,575 --> 02:27:41,695
I did make my bullet points. Okay. Clear. This is this.

2776
02:27:41,695 --> 02:27:42,935
Thank you. And I'll state it again.

2777
02:27:42,955 --> 02:27:44,055
You're all set. You're all set.

2778
02:27:44,055 --> 02:27:47,095
Thank you. And you wonder why

2779
02:27:47,685 --> 02:27:50,175
town counselors asked me Thank you to come in front of you.

2780
02:27:50,595 --> 02:27:52,415
You're all set. Thank you, Mr. Foley.

2781
02:27:55,805 --> 02:27:56,455
Anybody else?

2782
02:28:04,855 --> 02:28:07,395
Mr. If you could back, yeah. Yes, Mr. French. Thank you.

2783
02:28:07,605 --> 02:28:08,605
Thank you

2784
02:28:09,855 --> 02:28:10,855
Mr. Rose.

2785
02:28:10,855 --> 02:28:11,595
You made some great points.

2786
02:28:11,705 --> 02:28:13,475
I'll have you introduce yourself for the record.

2787
02:28:14,415 --> 02:28:15,635
Do I really need to by now?

2788
02:28:16,375 --> 02:28:19,555
Andrew Roja, 1 64 Hampstead Road in Derry.

2789
02:28:23,025 --> 02:28:24,045
How are you all doing tonight?

2790
02:28:25,235 --> 02:28:29,685
It's a happy night. All right. Same as last time.

2791
02:28:29,765 --> 02:28:31,045
I have a prepared statement

2792
02:28:31,105 --> 02:28:32,885
and then I have some additional points I'd

2793
02:28:32,885 --> 02:28:33,925
like to discuss with you guys.

2794
02:28:35,985 --> 02:28:37,205
We met here a month ago,

2795
02:28:37,505 --> 02:28:39,925
and we've already reviewed the facts.

2796
02:28:40,235 --> 02:28:44,165
That being said, I do wish to reiterate a few things as well

2797
02:28:44,165 --> 02:28:45,285
as make a few new points.

2798
02:28:46,425 --> 02:28:49,165
The New Hampshire Superior Court did reverse the prior

2799
02:28:49,165 --> 02:28:50,645
variance outright on the basis

2800
02:28:50,675 --> 02:28:53,285
that it found the applicant did not meet the statutory

2801
02:28:53,285 --> 02:28:57,245
requirement of unnecessary hardship, which requires

2802
02:28:57,245 --> 02:28:59,845
that hardship arise from special conditions

2803
02:28:59,845 --> 02:29:02,965
of the property itself, not the owner's business needs.

2804
02:29:03,425 --> 02:29:05,565
The special conditions of the property have not

2805
02:29:05,565 --> 02:29:06,765
changed since that time.

2806
02:29:07,625 --> 02:29:08,885
The applicant argued

2807
02:29:08,885 --> 02:29:11,165
that three factors created special conditions.

2808
02:29:11,545 --> 02:29:14,565
One was distance from the road, the building is set back,

2809
02:29:14,625 --> 02:29:17,165
but the court found no evidence that complying

2810
02:29:17,165 --> 02:29:18,645
with the ordinances sign size

2811
02:29:18,645 --> 02:29:21,525
or lighting limits imposed in unnecessary hardship.

2812
02:29:22,145 --> 02:29:24,765
The setback alone does not justify a larger

2813
02:29:24,945 --> 02:29:28,485
or illuminated sign trees surrounding the property.

2814
02:29:28,595 --> 02:29:30,165
Many were planted by the applicant

2815
02:29:30,165 --> 02:29:31,245
and the court emphasized

2816
02:29:31,245 --> 02:29:34,525
that self-created conditions cannot establish hardship.

2817
02:29:34,785 --> 02:29:37,445
Simply having trees does not legally justify

2818
02:29:37,445 --> 02:29:38,605
exceeding the sign limits.

2819
02:29:39,385 --> 02:29:42,605
And three nature of the business operating a permitted

2820
02:29:42,605 --> 02:29:45,325
commercial business does not create a special

2821
02:29:45,325 --> 02:29:46,485
condition of the land.

2822
02:29:46,825 --> 02:29:49,765
The court rejected the argument that the sign was necessary

2823
02:29:49,785 --> 02:29:51,005
for business viability.

2824
02:29:51,805 --> 02:29:54,365
Hardship must relate to the property itself,

2825
02:29:54,545 --> 02:29:56,125
not the owner's operational needs

2826
02:29:56,515 --> 02:29:59,045
because none of these factors constitute a

2827
02:29:59,045 --> 02:30:00,325
legally sufficient hardship.

2828
02:30:00,625 --> 02:30:03,085
The court concluded that the variance should have been

2829
02:30:03,085 --> 02:30:04,685
denied at the town ZBA level.

2830
02:30:05,345 --> 02:30:08,885
We previously discussed the issues that Mr.

2831
02:30:09,295 --> 02:30:11,845
Yanko has created since the time

2832
02:30:11,965 --> 02:30:15,485
that the Superior Court declared the ZBA variance null

2833
02:30:15,485 --> 02:30:17,645
and void in December of 2025.

2834
02:30:18,215 --> 02:30:21,645
Those, those problems

2835
02:30:21,645 --> 02:30:24,005
that he's created include that Mr.

2836
02:30:24,585 --> 02:30:27,365
Yco kept the illegal signage in place for four months.

2837
02:30:27,785 --> 02:30:29,965
In that time, Gary's code enforcement

2838
02:30:29,965 --> 02:30:31,365
attempted to contact Mr.

2839
02:30:31,825 --> 02:30:34,125
Yco to comply with zoning ordinances

2840
02:30:34,185 --> 02:30:35,485
and were ignored at every turn.

2841
02:30:36,145 --> 02:30:40,085
Mr. Yco had the signage brightness at a level that,

2842
02:30:40,765 --> 02:30:42,205
although the town was unable

2843
02:30:42,205 --> 02:30:44,845
to formally test was clearly too bright.

2844
02:30:45,705 --> 02:30:48,845
Mr. Yco had spotlights aimed in the air further causing

2845
02:30:49,375 --> 02:30:51,285
light pollution, and Mr.

2846
02:30:52,065 --> 02:30:54,325
Yco was leaving his signage on all night

2847
02:30:55,015 --> 02:30:57,685
after our last ZBA meeting a month ago.

2848
02:30:57,785 --> 02:31:00,445
Mr. Yco did finally come into compliance

2849
02:31:00,865 --> 02:31:02,365
by taking the signage down.

2850
02:31:03,065 --> 02:31:05,045
And it seems that the public shaming

2851
02:31:05,045 --> 02:31:08,285
that happened here a month ago was what it took

2852
02:31:08,345 --> 02:31:11,365
to finally get him to come into compliance.

2853
02:31:15,785 --> 02:31:20,325
To repeat a still very applicable part of my previous speech

2854
02:31:20,385 --> 02:31:23,645
to this board, granting a variance is an exercise

2855
02:31:23,785 --> 02:31:25,525
of discretion and trust.

2856
02:31:25,985 --> 02:31:28,965
It allows an exception to rules that apply to everyone else.

2857
02:31:29,625 --> 02:31:32,565
And it is reasonable still for this board

2858
02:31:32,585 --> 02:31:35,325
to consider whether that discretion is being sought in good

2859
02:31:35,325 --> 02:31:38,285
faith and with a willingness to comply with the outcome.

2860
02:31:38,985 --> 02:31:43,165
Mr. Yco has demonstrated to us all that he only cares

2861
02:31:43,165 --> 02:31:45,805
to come into compliance when he thinks it best suits him

2862
02:31:46,225 --> 02:31:48,045
and not when the law requires it,

2863
02:31:48,265 --> 02:31:50,845
and certainly not for the betterment of his community.

2864
02:31:51,345 --> 02:31:53,725
For all of these reasons, I respectfully request

2865
02:31:53,725 --> 02:31:55,925
that the board deny the variance request.

2866
02:31:58,185 --> 02:31:59,725
Mr. Rose? Yes, Mr.

2867
02:31:59,725 --> 02:32:02,365
Corbert? Good points. I had had two that I wanted to talk

2868
02:32:02,365 --> 02:32:05,245
to and I admittedly lost one of them as soon

2869
02:32:05,245 --> 02:32:06,605
as I said, oh, I wanna speak to that.

2870
02:32:06,735 --> 02:32:10,085
Right before, I think it was just

2871
02:32:10,085 --> 02:32:12,125
before the, the public shaming portion.

2872
02:32:12,545 --> 02:32:13,605
You had a, you had a point.

2873
02:32:13,715 --> 02:32:15,525
What were, did you go over like your two

2874
02:32:15,525 --> 02:32:17,005
or three points right before that one?

2875
02:32:17,345 --> 02:32:20,285
Are are you asking for just the bullet points?

2876
02:32:20,385 --> 02:32:23,365
He kept the illegal signage in place for four months, et

2877
02:32:23,365 --> 02:32:24,325
Cetera. Prior. Prior, I think prior to that.

2878
02:32:24,335 --> 02:32:24,965
Prior to that,

2879
02:32:30,945 --> 02:32:32,205
do you want to just look at this?

2880
02:32:32,835 --> 02:32:34,205
That would be okay, if you don't mind. Thank you.

2881
02:32:34,525 --> 02:32:37,045
Hang on. Oh, sorry. I actually have to give it to

2882
02:32:37,045 --> 02:32:38,045
Someone.

2883
02:32:39,565 --> 02:32:41,555
Sorry. Thank you. And I'll pass that back once I see it.

2884
02:32:43,655 --> 02:32:44,995
Mr. Je, one of the things

2885
02:32:44,995 --> 02:32:47,395
that you had done at the prior meeting was you had

2886
02:32:48,745 --> 02:32:53,115
brought some points forward relative to other comp, I guess,

2887
02:32:53,385 --> 02:32:55,075
competitors of other businesses

2888
02:32:55,095 --> 02:32:56,235
in the Yeah, in the community.

2889
02:32:56,675 --> 02:32:59,835
I think that testimony was pretty enlightening.

2890
02:33:00,885 --> 02:33:03,315
Thank you. You know, the, the other things

2891
02:33:03,315 --> 02:33:07,275
that you're saying, like the public shaming

2892
02:33:07,275 --> 02:33:10,315
and whatnot, I don't know that that's necessarily the case,

2893
02:33:12,255 --> 02:33:17,195
but the, the other part of this is the

2894
02:33:17,875 --> 02:33:19,355
hardship is self-imposed.

2895
02:33:21,485 --> 02:33:24,995
Would you not agree that if this applicant

2896
02:33:25,725 --> 02:33:29,995
takes a business proposal, takes it to the planning board,

2897
02:33:30,435 --> 02:33:33,515
the planning board reviews, that they see that there's a

2898
02:33:34,275 --> 02:33:37,955
location for a sign on there that this owner is,

2899
02:33:38,255 --> 02:33:41,595
is expecting to open up a business in that area.

2900
02:33:41,985 --> 02:33:46,235
It's a conforming business from the agricultural aspect and,

2901
02:33:46,415 --> 02:33:49,195
and is given that green light with the understanding

2902
02:33:49,265 --> 02:33:53,035
that he would be able to have a sign there, wouldn't you,

2903
02:33:53,085 --> 02:33:55,995
Indic, wouldn't you believe that withdrawing that

2904
02:33:56,045 --> 02:33:58,315
after the fact creates a hardship for him

2905
02:33:58,735 --> 02:34:00,075
and is not self-imposed?

2906
02:34:01,535 --> 02:34:05,235
So I have not seen the, the drawing that you're referring

2907
02:34:05,235 --> 02:34:06,275
to where it shows the sign,

2908
02:34:06,575 --> 02:34:07,915
but my understanding from all

2909
02:34:07,915 --> 02:34:10,675
of the discussion is it didn't show a size of the sign.

2910
02:34:11,015 --> 02:34:13,075
It showed an approximate location for a sign.

2911
02:34:13,575 --> 02:34:17,645
And I would argue Mr. Perkins, that absolutely not.

2912
02:34:17,825 --> 02:34:22,285
It doesn't, you, you know, at at, at the planning board.

2913
02:34:22,445 --> 02:34:24,765
I would not look at, hey, there needs to be a sign here

2914
02:34:24,785 --> 02:34:27,085
and assume that it's a non-conforming sign

2915
02:34:27,265 --> 02:34:28,365
that's being requested.

2916
02:34:28,535 --> 02:34:33,205
There are such things as conforming signs in the LMDR

2917
02:34:34,625 --> 02:34:39,165
and thank you for helping me segue into the bottom images.

2918
02:34:40,585 --> 02:34:44,885
All four from the right to left are in our area

2919
02:34:45,975 --> 02:34:47,485
signs that are conforming.

2920
02:34:47,485 --> 02:34:49,165
Right. And if you look at the bottom right image,

2921
02:34:49,515 --> 02:34:52,685
that is a agricultural business

2922
02:34:52,715 --> 02:34:54,525
that is right down the road from Mr.

2923
02:34:54,935 --> 02:34:57,285
AKA's business. Right. That is a conforming sign.

2924
02:34:58,265 --> 02:35:01,085
And, and can I ask you, what's the size of the sign?

2925
02:35:01,755 --> 02:35:04,845
That one is actually fairly small. It's oval.

2926
02:35:04,905 --> 02:35:06,365
I'm not sure. I haven't measured it.

2927
02:35:06,525 --> 02:35:08,925
I would say it's, it, it's under three square feet.

2928
02:35:10,625 --> 02:35:12,685
I'm not sure what it is per size.

2929
02:35:13,515 --> 02:35:15,525
Well, a, a regular sign,

2930
02:35:15,555 --> 02:35:18,885
like the groundhog sign up there is larger than four

2931
02:35:18,945 --> 02:35:20,165
by six. Wouldn't you say

2932
02:35:20,945 --> 02:35:22,965
The groundhog sign is actually

2933
02:35:23,595 --> 02:35:25,405
deceivingly small from the image.

2934
02:35:26,345 --> 02:35:27,805
I'm, again, I don't have square footage,

2935
02:35:27,805 --> 02:35:29,405
but that's actually quite a small sign.

2936
02:35:30,035 --> 02:35:31,445
It's just a very zoomed image.

2937
02:35:31,445 --> 02:35:33,685
Right. And so the point, the, the point

2938
02:35:33,685 --> 02:35:37,205
that I'm getting at and, and I understand your, your passion

2939
02:35:37,385 --> 02:35:39,245
and the, and the speech and whatnot.

2940
02:35:39,715 --> 02:35:42,005
There's a couple of presumptions that are going on here.

2941
02:35:42,005 --> 02:35:43,805
Number one, that we've already made a decision.

2942
02:35:44,185 --> 02:35:45,565
Number two, that the,

2943
02:35:46,165 --> 02:35:48,885
I I don't think I said that There's presumptions,

2944
02:35:48,955 --> 02:35:51,485
there's presumptions either in, in, in

2945
02:35:51,485 --> 02:35:52,965
what you were reading to Mr.

2946
02:35:53,465 --> 02:35:56,605
Corbet or either or from Mr. Foley.

2947
02:35:56,605 --> 02:35:57,805
There's presumptions that the board

2948
02:35:58,385 --> 02:35:59,445
I'm not Mr. Foley, sir.

2949
02:35:59,945 --> 02:36:01,245
It doesn't, it doesn't matter. Okay.

2950
02:36:01,245 --> 02:36:02,365
It's, you are a group

2951
02:36:02,385 --> 02:36:03,805
and you are a group that were,

2952
02:36:04,315 --> 02:36:06,885
that contested this into the higher court.

2953
02:36:06,885 --> 02:36:08,445
Correct. You were part of at all.

2954
02:36:08,605 --> 02:36:10,045
I I was a part of that court

2955
02:36:10,045 --> 02:36:11,045
Case.

2956
02:36:11,045 --> 02:36:12,325
So, so you just, the generalization. Right.

2957
02:36:12,345 --> 02:36:14,645
And so we're trying to get to what the hardship is

2958
02:36:14,865 --> 02:36:18,045
and if there's existing, if there is an existing hardship

2959
02:36:18,465 --> 02:36:21,525
and the, and, and there are established rules

2960
02:36:21,745 --> 02:36:23,925
for signs throughout the community.

2961
02:36:23,925 --> 02:36:27,325
Usually they focus around 24 square feet.

2962
02:36:28,595 --> 02:36:32,085
Your comment is, well, yes, they may have had this

2963
02:36:32,115 --> 02:36:33,285
with the planning board

2964
02:36:33,305 --> 02:36:35,685
and there was a location established for it,

2965
02:36:36,065 --> 02:36:37,565
but it was a non-con,

2966
02:36:37,745 --> 02:36:39,925
no one knew it would be a non-conforming sign.

2967
02:36:39,985 --> 02:36:42,965
So my question to you is, what's a non-conforming sign?

2968
02:36:43,455 --> 02:36:46,645
Especially in an area that it's, it's unfamiliar

2969
02:36:46,645 --> 02:36:48,245
with this type of practice.

2970
02:36:48,755 --> 02:36:51,005
Yeah, so that, that's something that,

2971
02:36:51,035 --> 02:36:54,005
that we actually touched on when I was up here a month ago.

2972
02:36:54,625 --> 02:36:59,165
And at our previous ZBA meetings,

2973
02:36:59,215 --> 02:37:03,405
there was a, an assertion

2974
02:37:03,555 --> 02:37:06,605
that a conforming sign was 24 square feet

2975
02:37:07,105 --> 02:37:08,645
or under and unlit.

2976
02:37:09,145 --> 02:37:12,405
And even at the last meeting a month ago, I followed

2977
02:37:12,475 --> 02:37:14,525
that assertion because that was the last I heard.

2978
02:37:14,705 --> 02:37:19,605
And if you recall on the top right, I made a rendering

2979
02:37:19,705 --> 02:37:21,885
of what he could potentially have within that.

2980
02:37:24,135 --> 02:37:26,525
Personally, I would actually be okay

2981
02:37:26,525 --> 02:37:28,685
with a 24 square foot or under sign.

2982
02:37:28,685 --> 02:37:32,965
As long as it's unlit, I think that it looks reasonable.

2983
02:37:34,605 --> 02:37:37,085
I don't know what anybody else feels,

2984
02:37:37,185 --> 02:37:40,645
and that's not really my problem, but that's what I feel.

2985
02:37:41,595 --> 02:37:45,325
That being said, there seems to be some discussion now

2986
02:37:45,325 --> 02:37:50,285
that maybe within the LMDR ordinance, it, it,

2987
02:37:50,285 --> 02:37:52,725
it's actually limited to three square feet or under.

2988
02:37:53,345 --> 02:37:57,645
And I'm not really sure how I feel about

2989
02:37:57,645 --> 02:37:58,725
that, if I'm being honest.

2990
02:37:59,185 --> 02:38:03,965
I'm very concerned about this, you know, 50 ish square foot

2991
02:38:03,965 --> 02:38:05,165
that we're talking about right now.

2992
02:38:05,385 --> 02:38:06,565
It looks massive. Mr.

2993
02:38:06,635 --> 02:38:08,805
Corbett, you pointed out it's really tall.

2994
02:38:09,315 --> 02:38:11,645
It's unnecessarily tall.

2995
02:38:14,065 --> 02:38:17,965
And somebody, I apologize,

2996
02:38:18,125 --> 02:38:19,365
I don't recall who I think it was Mr.

2997
02:38:19,465 --> 02:38:21,765
Donlin pointed out that it also has a lit crown,

2998
02:38:21,765 --> 02:38:24,005
which is just a, another bright,

2999
02:38:24,385 --> 02:38:25,605
you know, strange thing on it.

3000
02:38:25,625 --> 02:38:29,685
But you know, to answer your question directly, I don't know

3001
02:38:29,685 --> 02:38:31,965
what the ordinance calls for three or 24

3002
02:38:32,385 --> 02:38:34,725
and I don't know how I feel about the 24.

3003
02:38:34,925 --> 02:38:36,085
I think I'm okay with that.

3004
02:38:37,185 --> 02:38:39,645
Either way, it's supposed to be an unlit sign.

3005
02:38:40,305 --> 02:38:43,245
And I do actually want to touch on that

3006
02:38:43,355 --> 02:38:45,685
because you guys were discussing it a little while ago.

3007
02:38:46,625 --> 02:38:50,565
Mr. Donlin noted the idea of an internal

3008
02:38:50,625 --> 02:38:52,925
or external lit sign

3009
02:38:53,545 --> 02:38:56,365
and kind of was trying to pose the question of, you know,

3010
02:38:56,785 --> 02:38:58,805
how is that, how is one different than the other?

3011
02:38:59,385 --> 02:39:00,645
And Mr.

3012
02:39:00,675 --> 02:39:03,885
Corbett, I I, I'm trying to keep this a a friendly chat back

3013
02:39:03,905 --> 02:39:07,645
and forth, but I do take exception to what you said

3014
02:39:07,975 --> 02:39:10,325
where you said that, you know, if,

3015
02:39:10,385 --> 02:39:13,565
if you put in the externally lit sign, a kid is likely

3016
02:39:13,625 --> 02:39:14,725
to kick it over and then

3017
02:39:14,725 --> 02:39:15,845
it's gonna be pointing somewhere else.

3018
02:39:16,535 --> 02:39:18,685
Personally, I think better of our town than that.

3019
02:39:19,885 --> 02:39:22,485
I don't think that that's a high risk scenario

3020
02:39:22,485 --> 02:39:23,965
that we should be discussing here.

3021
02:39:24,205 --> 02:39:26,285
I I, I, I don't like that assertion.

3022
02:39:26,875 --> 02:39:28,645
Well, but I'll

3023
02:39:28,905 --> 02:39:31,125
But to, to, to, to back that up if I can.

3024
02:39:31,345 --> 02:39:35,845
I'm not it, it's just, you know, if that were to happen,

3025
02:39:36,105 --> 02:39:37,125
it is possible.

3026
02:39:37,275 --> 02:39:41,125
Sure. Just like any other maintenance thing.

3027
02:39:41,125 --> 02:39:42,405
What if a kid took a baseball bat

3028
02:39:42,405 --> 02:39:44,485
to the signed Well, you repair it. No. If, I

3029
02:39:44,485 --> 02:39:46,165
Mean, and if I may, I didn't mean it,

3030
02:39:46,425 --> 02:39:47,885
ill will no will, ill will intended.

3031
02:39:47,885 --> 02:39:50,685
Okay. The exact image that I had Halloween might've been

3032
02:39:50,685 --> 02:39:53,325
where off I think of the kids just as they're running up

3033
02:39:53,325 --> 02:39:54,445
to the house just excited.

3034
02:39:54,445 --> 02:39:56,165
They're not paying attention as they run up.

3035
02:39:56,315 --> 02:39:57,685
It's a cord, it's a kit, not an

3036
02:39:57,685 --> 02:39:58,765
intentional, I'm looking at the sign.

3037
02:39:58,765 --> 02:40:00,965
Sure. And kicking. So did not mean that appreciate that.

3038
02:40:01,245 --> 02:40:03,045
To be very honest, what I was thinking,

3039
02:40:03,185 --> 02:40:05,245
and it was actually the point that I was going back to

3040
02:40:05,925 --> 02:40:07,805
the spotlights in the air, that was exactly

3041
02:40:07,805 --> 02:40:09,645
what it had me thinking of was that Yeah.

3042
02:40:09,715 --> 02:40:12,005
When before those were aimed at the steeple,

3043
02:40:12,145 --> 02:40:13,405
but then when the steeple was gone,

3044
02:40:13,405 --> 02:40:14,765
those lights were still permitted.

3045
02:40:14,875 --> 02:40:17,165
Yeah. So what we ended up having was lights that were now,

3046
02:40:17,265 --> 02:40:18,565
as I referred to as the bat signal,

3047
02:40:18,585 --> 02:40:20,005
the lights just shining to nowhere.

3048
02:40:20,255 --> 02:40:23,005
Right. That's exactly what I was picturing when I thought

3049
02:40:23,005 --> 02:40:25,085
of the external one then aimed at the sign,

3050
02:40:25,465 --> 02:40:27,605
if it was a car backing in, if it was, you know, again,

3051
02:40:27,605 --> 02:40:29,245
just the kid running up, running to the car,

3052
02:40:29,245 --> 02:40:31,805
running from the car and just whatever.

3053
02:40:31,985 --> 02:40:33,685
Now all of a sudden it's shining. Yeah.

3054
02:40:33,925 --> 02:40:35,405
Honestly, the thought I had was shining directly into the

3055
02:40:35,405 --> 02:40:36,645
Davis' bedroom and

3056
02:40:36,705 --> 02:40:37,925
was trying to prevent something like that.

3057
02:40:38,155 --> 02:40:40,805
Okay. So, you know, just just to touch on that,

3058
02:40:41,305 --> 02:40:44,285
the externally lit sign, that lighting

3059
02:40:44,905 --> 02:40:48,485
to my understanding is a part of the sign, so to speak.

3060
02:40:48,645 --> 02:40:50,485
I know that it's staked into the ground separate,

3061
02:40:50,625 --> 02:40:54,565
but as, as, as a use case, it is part of the sign, you know,

3062
02:40:54,785 --> 02:40:58,325
and, and so if the sign were ever removed, yes,

3063
02:40:58,345 --> 02:41:00,245
you have a light pointing out into the air,

3064
02:41:00,545 --> 02:41:04,405
but that's a pretty simple call into, well,

3065
02:41:04,405 --> 02:41:05,445
first of all, your neighbor.

3066
02:41:05,445 --> 02:41:07,725
But then if that goes nowhere into code enforcement saying,

3067
02:41:07,725 --> 02:41:10,965
Hey, there's this leftover thing that shouldn't be there.

3068
02:41:11,955 --> 02:41:13,805
That being said, I, I do just want

3069
02:41:13,805 --> 02:41:15,605
to touch on there actually is a difference

3070
02:41:15,605 --> 02:41:17,605
between an externally lit and an

3071
02:41:17,745 --> 02:41:20,965
and an internally lit sign from a functional standpoint.

3072
02:41:22,595 --> 02:41:26,805
When, when you have a externally lit sign,

3073
02:41:27,465 --> 02:41:30,525
the only outward shining

3074
02:41:30,635 --> 02:41:33,845
that you get away from the sign is whatever is

3075
02:41:33,915 --> 02:41:35,565
reflected off of that sign.

3076
02:41:36,105 --> 02:41:38,165
If you have an internally lit sign,

3077
02:41:38,705 --> 02:41:40,805
it is emanating light outward

3078
02:41:41,345 --> 02:41:43,445
toward the neighbors by design.

3079
02:41:44,315 --> 02:41:46,565
It's, it's the primary thing that it does.

3080
02:41:47,105 --> 02:41:50,325
So, you know, we, if we want to talk about what is the,

3081
02:41:50,385 --> 02:41:52,445
the functional difference, it's huge.

3082
02:41:52,835 --> 02:41:56,165
It's, it's actually either I, I'm shining a light at you

3083
02:41:56,425 --> 02:41:58,085
or I'm shining a light at that wall

3084
02:41:58,185 --> 02:42:00,205
and a little bit of that light reflects back at you.

3085
02:42:00,625 --> 02:42:02,645
That's, that, that's a big difference.

3086
02:42:02,955 --> 02:42:04,165
Yeah. And I think that was what Mr.

3087
02:42:04,505 --> 02:42:07,125
And I were kind of kicking back and forth, did we?

3088
02:42:07,265 --> 02:42:10,725
And even put in perfect world, it's glowing, you know,

3089
02:42:10,725 --> 02:42:13,085
as you said, radiating right now as we see,

3090
02:42:13,085 --> 02:42:14,805
it's not glowing, you know, it's, it's shining.

3091
02:42:15,305 --> 02:42:17,685
So Devin, say I agree with those two things. Yeah.

3092
02:42:18,905 --> 02:42:21,485
Before I go to the other question I have, I don't want

3093
02:42:21,485 --> 02:42:24,085
to interrupt you and chain and go off,

3094
02:42:25,065 --> 02:42:26,565
but I, I think it's a good point on

3095
02:42:26,565 --> 02:42:28,565
that a an external could be hardwired.

3096
02:42:28,905 --> 02:42:30,525
So I think that's the, the possibility.

3097
02:42:30,525 --> 02:42:33,685
I didn't think of that. Right. Are you sent on this portion?

3098
02:42:33,705 --> 02:42:35,205
Can I go to my other question or do you want me to wait?

3099
02:42:35,205 --> 02:42:36,565
Yeah, please. Okay. It's the only one.

3100
02:42:36,585 --> 02:42:37,885
And it came back

3101
02:42:37,945 --> 02:42:41,725
and it was on the hardship, it was on the trees when I took

3102
02:42:41,725 --> 02:42:43,245
that is I, I read it through

3103
02:42:43,565 --> 02:42:45,525
with the superior court findings as well.

3104
02:42:45,795 --> 02:42:47,045
Yeah. And I didn't,

3105
02:42:47,365 --> 02:42:49,005
I don't think it was misrepresented in any way.

3106
02:42:49,165 --> 02:42:52,525
I, I honestly felt that it was misunderstood from

3107
02:42:55,025 --> 02:42:56,205
what's the right word for the judge,

3108
02:42:56,665 --> 02:43:01,245
but from the judge that when the trees were discussed

3109
02:43:01,385 --> 02:43:03,085
and perhaps during a rebuttal, whatever,

3110
02:43:03,365 --> 02:43:06,165
even your feedback on it, I took the trees as

3111
02:43:06,165 --> 02:43:09,005
that they were put in to proactively try

3112
02:43:09,025 --> 02:43:12,165
to create more distance with the houses in the back just

3113
02:43:12,225 --> 02:43:13,725
to create more of a buffer.

3114
02:43:14,265 --> 02:43:16,965
Not that because the buffer was there, the sign was needed.

3115
02:43:19,185 --> 02:43:23,025
Interesting. During the minutes of it,

3116
02:43:23,025 --> 02:43:24,305
that was more of how it was depicted.

3117
02:43:24,305 --> 02:43:25,545
And that, that's the only thing it,

3118
02:43:25,615 --> 02:43:27,465
what you read was directly from the court minutes.

3119
02:43:27,805 --> 02:43:28,865
So as I said, I don't think it was

3120
02:43:29,335 --> 02:43:31,145
intentionally misrepresented on your part.

3121
02:43:31,185 --> 02:43:33,745
I don't think he misrepresent or misrepresented.

3122
02:43:33,825 --> 02:43:35,345
I think he may have just misinterpreted. Okay.

3123
02:43:35,345 --> 02:43:36,825
So that was just my only takeaway.

3124
02:43:36,825 --> 02:43:38,345
Otherwise I thought it was all really good points.

3125
02:43:38,775 --> 02:43:40,105
Okay. I'm, I'm,

3126
02:43:40,225 --> 02:43:41,865
I don't have a response to that either way.

3127
02:43:42,045 --> 02:43:43,345
Oh, okay. Fair

3128
02:43:43,345 --> 02:43:44,345
Point.

3129
02:43:44,345 --> 02:43:47,425
When, when you're talking about the 60 square feet

3130
02:43:47,645 --> 02:43:49,625
or the, I'm sorry, how big is it?

3131
02:43:49,755 --> 02:43:51,225
50 50 square

3132
02:43:51,225 --> 02:43:52,225
Feet.

3133
02:43:52,225 --> 02:43:52,825
Could, could we actually clarify that?

3134
02:43:53,025 --> 02:43:54,505
I don't think in this whole meeting we've

3135
02:43:54,505 --> 02:43:56,345
clarified what the size is. Yeah, it's

3136
02:43:56,345 --> 02:43:57,825
42.5 right now. So

3137
02:43:57,825 --> 02:44:00,865
It's, it is 42.5 60 Feet across and 1 0 2 down.

3138
02:44:01,085 --> 02:44:02,985
But that's just the cabinets.

3139
02:44:03,375 --> 02:44:05,625
Okay. Thank you. Sorry Mr. Perkins.

3140
02:44:05,695 --> 02:44:07,825
Well, no, that's fine. And I think Mr.

3141
02:44:07,855 --> 02:44:10,465
Trip has brought something forward to my attention as well.

3142
02:44:10,605 --> 02:44:15,225
But you know, one, one box

3143
02:44:15,805 --> 02:44:19,345
is certainly less than the 24 square feet that's allowed

3144
02:44:19,405 --> 02:44:21,465
and I think permitted in this district as well,

3145
02:44:21,555 --> 02:44:23,145
under certain circumstances.

3146
02:44:23,885 --> 02:44:26,985
And, but when you're citing the, the total size,

3147
02:44:27,075 --> 02:44:31,345
which was 50 square feet, you're talking about two signs.

3148
02:44:32,365 --> 02:44:34,945
But these are a sign for each business

3149
02:44:34,945 --> 02:44:37,065
that is operating at that facility.

3150
02:44:38,015 --> 02:44:39,185
Yeah. You know, you,

3151
02:44:39,185 --> 02:44:40,745
you did bring this up at our last meeting

3152
02:44:41,005 --> 02:44:45,065
and I, I, I very much disagree with it.

3153
02:44:46,025 --> 02:44:48,465
I have an LLC registered to my property

3154
02:44:48,785 --> 02:44:50,065
'cause I have a home office there,

3155
02:44:50,645 --> 02:44:55,065
and I could very easily register three more LLCs

3156
02:44:55,165 --> 02:44:57,705
and put up a sign for each one

3157
02:44:57,705 --> 02:45:00,425
and try to claim that I'm within the ordinance

3158
02:45:00,425 --> 02:45:01,785
and I don't need a variance.

3159
02:45:02,205 --> 02:45:04,305
And then I could have as many square feet

3160
02:45:04,305 --> 02:45:05,505
of signage as I want if I just

3161
02:45:05,825 --> 02:45:06,825
Register an I.

3162
02:45:06,825 --> 02:45:09,025
That's where I'm going with it. I i, it's going back to the,

3163
02:45:09,205 --> 02:45:11,785
the hardship question, which is that he has,

3164
02:45:12,055 --> 02:45:15,465
he's been given approval for use here by the planning board

3165
02:45:16,125 --> 02:45:17,425
and for both uses.

3166
02:45:17,725 --> 02:45:21,065
And what we're trying to get down to the bottom to is

3167
02:45:23,535 --> 02:45:26,905
does each business, should each

3168
02:45:26,905 --> 02:45:28,945
of the two businesses be permitted

3169
02:45:28,945 --> 02:45:30,785
to have its own individual sign?

3170
02:45:31,785 --> 02:45:33,065
I I do not think so.

3171
02:45:33,065 --> 02:45:35,225
They are both owned by the same person,

3172
02:45:35,365 --> 02:45:36,905
the same entity really.

3173
02:45:38,025 --> 02:45:40,265
I mean, this, we're talking about bird enterprises

3174
02:45:40,645 --> 02:45:44,385
and he may run two different profit streams.

3175
02:45:44,385 --> 02:45:46,665
There being, you know, I

3176
02:45:47,015 --> 02:45:48,985
Yeah, but now you're kind of touching into that,

3177
02:45:48,985 --> 02:45:50,985
that court, that higher court ruling.

3178
02:45:50,995 --> 02:45:54,345
Right. Which is that the finance is, is not a, a problem,

3179
02:45:54,525 --> 02:45:55,705
you know, should not be a,

3180
02:45:56,065 --> 02:45:58,425
I I'm not, I'm not trying to touch into

3181
02:45:58,425 --> 02:45:59,825
that. I'm not talking about the dollars,

3182
02:46:00,245 --> 02:46:02,305
But to this point, right, you're talking about, well,

3183
02:46:02,305 --> 02:46:03,545
it's Bird Enterprises.

3184
02:46:03,545 --> 02:46:07,545
He owns both of them, but it's not Bird Enterprises

3185
02:46:07,545 --> 02:46:10,285
that's selling the unique features of each

3186
02:46:10,285 --> 02:46:11,325
of the two businesses.

3187
02:46:11,375 --> 02:46:14,685
One's a baseball camp, one's trees, plants,

3188
02:46:16,025 --> 02:46:19,685
It, it's, it's one address.

3189
02:46:19,835 --> 02:46:22,245
It's one building. It's one person.

3190
02:46:22,785 --> 02:46:24,965
I'm, I'm sorry, I, I just, I don't see it. Okay.

3191
02:46:25,325 --> 02:46:28,125
I just wanted to clarify my question so I knew

3192
02:46:28,155 --> 02:46:29,605
what you were, you were answering to.

3193
02:46:29,675 --> 02:46:31,845
Yeah. There, there's dispute going back

3194
02:46:31,845 --> 02:46:36,365
and forth about not contentious dispute, about whether

3195
02:46:36,385 --> 02:46:38,405
or not it should be internally lit

3196
02:46:38,425 --> 02:46:41,525
or externally lit, what the differences are.

3197
02:46:41,525 --> 02:46:44,765
There's nothing to suggest, this is disparaging on Mr.

3198
02:46:44,875 --> 02:46:47,685
Corbett's part, but I think you go, you can see

3199
02:46:47,785 --> 02:46:50,645
by his questions the line of expansive thinking that

3200
02:46:51,675 --> 02:46:54,805
that happens when you're on, you know, in this board.

3201
02:46:54,805 --> 02:46:57,405
And you've seen as many cases as we had, right? Yeah.

3202
02:46:57,565 --> 02:47:00,885
Nobody's trying to indicate that there's gonna be a rash

3203
02:47:00,905 --> 02:47:02,765
of vandalism, but anything could happen.

3204
02:47:03,585 --> 02:47:08,045
But in regards to the lighting of these signs, if,

3205
02:47:08,265 --> 02:47:09,405
if there was no lighting

3206
02:47:09,465 --> 02:47:11,645
and both of these signs were of a design

3207
02:47:11,645 --> 02:47:14,085
that you had established the last time you were here,

3208
02:47:14,495 --> 02:47:16,005
where do you stand on this now?

3209
02:47:17,425 --> 02:47:19,405
I'm sorry, can you repeat the actual question there? You

3210
02:47:19,765 --> 02:47:21,525
Proposed some kind of sign design

3211
02:47:21,665 --> 02:47:23,885
before, which showed both signs

3212
02:47:24,065 --> 02:47:26,525
and it showed them in a spirit that Mr.

3213
02:47:26,715 --> 02:47:30,365
Corbett has alluded to about lowering those, those two boxes

3214
02:47:30,965 --> 02:47:32,045
cabinets down lower, right?

3215
02:47:32,045 --> 02:47:33,045
Yeah. On the top right. Yeah.

3216
02:47:33,105 --> 02:47:36,005
And so if, if the proposal was to do that

3217
02:47:36,035 --> 02:47:38,045
with no lighting, where do you stand on that?

3218
02:47:40,145 --> 02:47:43,445
If it were conceptually speaking, that sign

3219
02:47:43,705 --> 02:47:46,045
as shown on the top right with no lighting,

3220
02:47:46,485 --> 02:47:47,605
I would be fine with it.

3221
02:47:47,685 --> 02:47:48,765
I wouldn't be sitting here arguing

3222
02:47:49,695 --> 02:47:51,045
Personally, those two signs.

3223
02:47:51,845 --> 02:47:56,525
I, that's a long way for me. But is is that top right?

3224
02:47:56,545 --> 02:47:57,845
Is that one sign or two?

3225
02:47:58,305 --> 02:48:03,165
It it's one sign, it's one panel showing both Della Hunts

3226
02:48:03,165 --> 02:48:07,525
and NEA, I mean, you know, it's just a conceptual render.

3227
02:48:07,665 --> 02:48:10,405
You can easily put a line between to,

3228
02:48:10,465 --> 02:48:12,125
to distinguish them, but Sure.

3229
02:48:12,565 --> 02:48:14,965
I like the seasonal touch. Yeah. Okay.

3230
02:48:15,905 --> 02:48:18,765
Any idea what that rendering sign size is?

3231
02:48:20,115 --> 02:48:21,925
That was 24 square feet.

3232
02:48:22,155 --> 02:48:25,165
That whole sign there is? Yeah. Is four by six. Yeah.

3233
02:48:25,435 --> 02:48:28,525
Okay. All right. Let me rest Mr. Trip. Do you have a point?

3234
02:48:30,295 --> 02:48:34,865
Well, you pretty much asked the question

3235
02:48:34,865 --> 02:48:36,025
that I was gonna ask.

3236
02:48:36,195 --> 02:48:39,185
Sorry. You know, which is, what is

3237
02:48:40,825 --> 02:48:44,865
a sign that is conforming, I'm sorry

3238
02:48:45,525 --> 02:48:46,705
I'm not speaking in the microphone,

3239
02:48:48,005 --> 02:48:52,065
but I, I happen to have a copy

3240
02:48:52,065 --> 02:48:53,265
of the court's decision

3241
02:48:53,485 --> 02:48:55,945
and the court

3242
02:48:58,685 --> 02:49:02,345
on page 15 seemed to think

3243
02:49:02,415 --> 02:49:06,585
that section 1 65 dash 1 0 1 1

3244
02:49:06,645 --> 02:49:10,405
of the ordinance restricts signs in the LMDR

3245
02:49:10,465 --> 02:49:15,405
to 24 square feet, which we can, we

3246
02:49:15,405 --> 02:49:16,805
Can agree You're looking at the Supreme Court.

3247
02:49:17,305 --> 02:49:19,765
Yes. That I, I can't superior say

3248
02:49:19,945 --> 02:49:20,965
for sure, but, but maybe the

3249
02:49:21,245 --> 02:49:22,245
Superior Court.

3250
02:49:22,245 --> 02:49:23,525
Yeah, sorry, the Superior Court.

3251
02:49:23,575 --> 02:49:26,685
Maybe that's just because that was the assertion that we had

3252
02:49:26,685 --> 02:49:29,485
and it was in the minutes that they were working off of.

3253
02:49:30,325 --> 02:49:31,445
I don't know. But

3254
02:49:32,035 --> 02:49:36,325
What he seemed to be quite careful about

3255
02:49:36,325 --> 02:49:38,765
what he cited in a decision. So I, well,

3256
02:49:38,835 --> 02:49:42,125
Frankly, I think we were all pretty certain

3257
02:49:42,425 --> 02:49:45,085
for whatever reason, and it was in the minutes

3258
02:49:45,115 --> 02:49:47,085
that we talked about 24 square feet.

3259
02:49:47,505 --> 02:49:50,885
Am I wrong about that? I can't

3260
02:49:50,885 --> 02:49:53,245
Recall, I can't recall it being in the minutes.

3261
02:49:53,665 --> 02:49:58,125
But because as, as you've pointed out that it's

3262
02:49:59,755 --> 02:50:01,925
this sign ordinances are

3263
02:50:05,315 --> 02:50:07,365
difficult to understand

3264
02:50:08,465 --> 02:50:10,645
As, as written, I, I I would tend

3265
02:50:10,645 --> 02:50:12,485
to agree it's either three or 24.

3266
02:50:12,505 --> 02:50:15,205
And that's a very big difference, frankly. Say again?

3267
02:50:15,645 --> 02:50:18,605
I, I said I would tend to agree, you know, it's either three

3268
02:50:18,785 --> 02:50:21,325
or 24 and I don't, that's a little

3269
02:50:21,445 --> 02:50:22,445
Bit of difference there.

3270
02:50:22,445 --> 02:50:24,045
That that's what I just said. I'm not sure

3271
02:50:24,715 --> 02:50:27,365
that anybody on this board has kind of stood up

3272
02:50:27,365 --> 02:50:29,805
and said, oh no, it's this number, not that.

3273
02:50:30,305 --> 02:50:32,045
So the fact that nobody has done that

3274
02:50:32,045 --> 02:50:34,645
and clarified it means it's probably a little

3275
02:50:36,675 --> 02:50:37,675
Mahy.

3276
02:50:37,675 --> 02:50:41,685
Yeah, yeah. Because I believe the signs that you're showing

3277
02:50:42,425 --> 02:50:46,365
are probably in the 24 square foot range. No,

3278
02:50:46,925 --> 02:50:48,205
N not all of them.

3279
02:50:49,025 --> 02:50:52,405
So if, if I could just walk you through what these are.

3280
02:50:52,745 --> 02:50:56,205
No, no, that's okay. Well, I I, I do want to walk you

3281
02:50:56,205 --> 02:50:57,445
through it some point ahead so

3282
02:50:57,745 --> 02:50:58,565
You don't mind. Go ahead then.

3283
02:50:59,425 --> 02:51:01,125
What's That? I said please go ahead.

3284
02:51:01,315 --> 02:51:03,605
Okay, so the, the bottom right, I already said

3285
02:51:03,605 --> 02:51:06,565
that is an agricultural business that runs kind of the same

3286
02:51:06,565 --> 02:51:07,645
as Della Hunts does.

3287
02:51:08,465 --> 02:51:10,965
The next one over, you see the greenhouse there,

3288
02:51:11,105 --> 02:51:12,725
that's another agricultural business.

3289
02:51:12,835 --> 02:51:17,605
They have a less than three square foot unlit sign as well.

3290
02:51:18,435 --> 02:51:21,845
Both of those, well, I, I should say the, the bottom right,

3291
02:51:21,985 --> 02:51:24,405
the, the Jolly botanist, they've been in business

3292
02:51:24,405 --> 02:51:26,005
for quite a while successfully.

3293
02:51:26,485 --> 02:51:27,565
They've been there for years.

3294
02:51:28,305 --> 02:51:30,325
The next one over where you see the greenhouse,

3295
02:51:30,325 --> 02:51:33,685
they're pretty new, but they've been pretty busy.

3296
02:51:33,685 --> 02:51:35,205
They're actually my next door neighbor,

3297
02:51:36,225 --> 02:51:39,005
the next one over from that, you know, we keep talking about

3298
02:51:39,105 --> 02:51:42,405
how NEA is a school and schools need signage

3299
02:51:42,505 --> 02:51:47,005
and, you know, we were talking about trying to find the

3300
02:51:47,005 --> 02:51:48,365
after school programs

3301
02:51:48,425 --> 02:51:49,445
and how it's people

3302
02:51:49,505 --> 02:51:51,645
who maybe don't know where they're going or something.

3303
02:51:54,265 --> 02:51:57,085
You know, this, this is an entire school, schools do have

3304
02:51:57,085 --> 02:51:58,365
after school programs.

3305
02:51:58,475 --> 02:52:01,285
They are an unlit small sign in our neighborhood.

3306
02:52:02,265 --> 02:52:06,005
So, you know, again, I would argue, I mean,

3307
02:52:06,295 --> 02:52:08,245
raise your hand if you don't have GPS in your

3308
02:52:08,245 --> 02:52:09,285
phone. I, I mean,

3309
02:52:09,615 --> 02:52:11,565
Sorry, a specific question about that sign.

3310
02:52:12,025 --> 02:52:13,725
The the school? Yeah, the East Area one. Yeah. Yeah.

3311
02:52:13,905 --> 02:52:15,845
That's one of three signs for the school.

3312
02:52:16,235 --> 02:52:18,445
That is the first sign that you come across when you're

3313
02:52:18,445 --> 02:52:19,445
Trying to find the school.

3314
02:52:19,445 --> 02:52:20,245
And then another one at the end. Yeah. Then another one at

3315
02:52:20,245 --> 02:52:21,445
the end of that road, and then another

3316
02:52:21,445 --> 02:52:22,485
one when you enter the school.

3317
02:52:23,385 --> 02:52:24,725
So I guess in that regard,

3318
02:52:24,835 --> 02:52:27,525
what would your thoughts be if they had three unlit signs,

3319
02:52:27,715 --> 02:52:31,405
like in that quarter mile leading up to this facility?

3320
02:52:34,515 --> 02:52:36,805
Well, the, the school's on a, a private road

3321
02:52:36,825 --> 02:52:37,845
for the school, aren't they?

3322
02:52:39,305 --> 02:52:40,205
No, not entirely. No.

3323
02:52:40,505 --> 02:52:41,685
Oh, really? Yeah, dubose residential.

3324
02:52:42,145 --> 02:52:44,885
Oh, interesting. I don't know how that came to be,

3325
02:52:45,025 --> 02:52:47,445
but he's certainly not getting approval

3326
02:52:47,465 --> 02:52:49,245
to put a sign in my property down the road.

3327
02:52:49,545 --> 02:52:51,365
No. Yeah. I was just, I, I noticed it the next day

3328
02:52:51,365 --> 02:52:52,925
and all of a sudden, like it jumped out at me.

3329
02:52:52,925 --> 02:52:54,405
I was like, wow. There's, there's not just one,

3330
02:52:54,405 --> 02:52:56,565
there's three and then just how that, yeah.

3331
02:52:56,625 --> 02:52:58,325
And, and I wasn't trying to mislead anyone.

3332
02:52:58,355 --> 02:53:01,765
This is the sign that you used to find the school though.

3333
02:53:02,795 --> 02:53:05,205
This is, you know, as you're driving down the road looking

3334
02:53:05,305 --> 02:53:06,805
for the school, this is what you see.

3335
02:53:09,385 --> 02:53:13,245
And the next one over that is a horse farm

3336
02:53:13,395 --> 02:53:16,205
that is also a successful business right down the

3337
02:53:16,205 --> 02:53:17,245
road from Della Hunts.

3338
02:53:17,245 --> 02:53:20,045
They're just a few houses down

3339
02:53:20,045 --> 02:53:23,365
and across the street from Alan's Garden.

3340
02:53:24,385 --> 02:53:27,525
And again, you know, they're a small unlit sign.

3341
02:53:27,665 --> 02:53:30,285
It, it's, you know, I really appreciated Mr.

3342
02:53:30,355 --> 02:53:32,725
Trip pointing out that, you know, he drove around town

3343
02:53:32,985 --> 02:53:35,565
and was hard pressed to find a, you know,

3344
02:53:35,865 --> 02:53:40,405
big oversized backlit sign in our rural area.

3345
02:53:41,145 --> 02:53:42,405
And he's, he's right.

3346
02:53:42,405 --> 02:53:45,965
There aren't any, it's it, this is why we're fighting this

3347
02:53:45,965 --> 02:53:47,205
because it doesn't belong.

3348
02:53:47,745 --> 02:53:49,605
That's what it boils down to.

3349
02:53:51,105 --> 02:53:52,445
You know, the next sign over,

3350
02:53:52,505 --> 02:53:53,765
you have, this is the old church.

3351
02:53:53,785 --> 02:53:56,365
We keep talking about the old church sign.

3352
02:53:56,465 --> 02:54:00,285
And I think some people's memories were fuzzy on it

3353
02:54:00,405 --> 02:54:01,845
'cause it's been a while since it's been there.

3354
02:54:01,865 --> 02:54:06,245
But that was a small, small sign that was, you know,

3355
02:54:06,495 --> 02:54:10,525
maybe two feet off the ground total with

3356
02:54:11,185 --> 02:54:13,645
one foot of that actually being the sign

3357
02:54:13,825 --> 02:54:15,325
and it was 10 feet long.

3358
02:54:15,665 --> 02:54:19,445
So that is a, you know, 10 square foot sign for that church

3359
02:54:20,595 --> 02:54:22,525
certainly exceeds the three square foot,

3360
02:54:22,525 --> 02:54:25,365
but it's under 24. Then we

3361
02:54:25,365 --> 02:54:26,365
Have, pardon Mr.

3362
02:54:26,365 --> 02:54:27,725
Chair, if I could bring your attention to the time.

3363
02:54:27,905 --> 02:54:29,485
So you may seek a motion to extend. Thank.

3364
02:54:29,555 --> 02:54:30,805
Very good. Thank you Mr. Prior

3365
02:54:30,805 --> 02:54:33,925
To that, could we make a motion to let Case one 10 leave?

3366
02:54:35,115 --> 02:54:36,685
Yeah, it was the only one we didn't table. Go ahead.

3367
02:54:38,625 --> 02:54:40,845
Yep. I'm gonna make a quick motion. Sorry Mr.

3368
02:54:41,065 --> 02:54:42,685
I'm gonna make a quick motion to table case

3369
02:54:42,685 --> 02:54:44,885
26 1 1 10 to the next meeting.

3370
02:54:44,885 --> 02:54:47,445
Give Mrs. Laina about four minutes back in her night. Mr.

3371
02:54:47,445 --> 02:54:50,045
Donald, you want a second? Sorry. Second. Thank you.

3372
02:54:50,265 --> 02:54:52,365
All in favor of that say aye. Aye.

3373
02:54:52,505 --> 02:54:56,925
Aye folks, for that case you're free to go.

3374
02:54:57,065 --> 02:54:58,805
We will see you a couple weeks.

3375
02:55:01,525 --> 02:55:03,565
I think I made my point regarding these

3376
02:55:03,675 --> 02:55:07,005
that there are no other oversized backlit signs in the area.

3377
02:55:10,545 --> 02:55:12,285
And I think that that's all that I have for the moment.

3378
02:55:12,285 --> 02:55:14,045
Unless you have additional questions.

3379
02:55:15,345 --> 02:55:16,565
Mr. Chair, I have a couple questions. Mr.

3380
02:55:16,735 --> 02:55:21,605
Lusca, On all those other signs that are on Lit,

3381
02:55:21,785 --> 02:55:25,845
how many of them are hours of operation after sundown?

3382
02:55:27,595 --> 02:55:31,445
Good question. I do not, I do not know.

3383
02:55:35,575 --> 02:55:37,695
I don't know if Groundhog Landscaping is,

3384
02:55:38,535 --> 02:55:42,735
I don't know if the horse farm is, the school certainly has,

3385
02:55:44,315 --> 02:55:48,295
you know, things that they do after dark Alan's garden.

3386
02:55:48,855 --> 02:55:51,815
I think that they close at six or 7:00 PM

3387
02:55:52,515 --> 02:55:54,335
and then I don't know the jolly botanist.

3388
02:55:55,205 --> 02:55:56,815
It's a good question. Well, I can speak on behalf

3389
02:55:56,815 --> 02:55:59,415
of Groundhog 'cause I am the abutter to that location.

3390
02:56:00,835 --> 02:56:04,095
But my next question is, well it's not really a question

3391
02:56:04,755 --> 02:56:09,295
per se, but in regards to the school, the elementary school,

3392
02:56:09,635 --> 02:56:13,175
having a kid, if I were to have him going to that school,

3393
02:56:13,255 --> 02:56:16,655
I would know exactly where that school is now.

3394
02:56:17,045 --> 02:56:19,175
Well they, they're asserting that they are a school,

3395
02:56:19,355 --> 02:56:21,455
so yeah, they would know exactly

3396
02:56:21,465 --> 02:56:23,135
where NEA is. You're right,

3397
02:56:23,355 --> 02:56:25,935
So acc one point there so that, I feel like

3398
02:56:25,935 --> 02:56:27,215
that wouldn't have to be lit

3399
02:56:27,215 --> 02:56:29,575
because as a parent you would be fully

3400
02:56:29,575 --> 02:56:30,575
Aware of Where it's

3401
02:56:30,575 --> 02:56:34,175
Fully agree and your GPS counts down one mile 0.9 0.8

3402
02:56:34,435 --> 02:56:39,095
and then tells you turn in 500 feet, 250 there.

3403
02:56:39,695 --> 02:56:42,695
I, I'm sorry Mr. Dietzel, but I, I disagree with you.

3404
02:56:42,795 --> 02:56:45,735
You're not gonna miss your turn with modern GPS. It's just,

3405
02:56:47,235 --> 02:56:50,015
And then with some of his clientele

3406
02:56:50,985 --> 02:56:52,255
being new drivers.

3407
02:56:52,755 --> 02:56:56,655
Yep. Don't you think that A GPS would be a lot more

3408
02:56:56,655 --> 02:56:59,935
of a distraction that could possibly cause a safety issue

3409
02:57:01,035 --> 02:57:02,775
for these 16 year olds that are new to the

3410
02:57:02,775 --> 02:57:03,775
Road?

3411
02:57:03,775 --> 02:57:04,055
No, actually, and, and,

3412
02:57:04,235 --> 02:57:06,815
and this is getting a little personal,

3413
02:57:06,835 --> 02:57:08,255
but a very, very quick story.

3414
02:57:08,525 --> 02:57:11,175
When I got my license, I

3415
02:57:11,795 --> 02:57:14,695
coincidentally started having back pain quite often

3416
02:57:15,195 --> 02:57:17,615
and for Christmas my mom bought me a GPS

3417
02:57:17,635 --> 02:57:19,455
and my back pain magically went away.

3418
02:57:19,775 --> 02:57:21,735
I was stressed out 'cause I had no idea where I was

3419
02:57:21,785 --> 02:57:23,815
until there was a little map in front of me.

3420
02:57:23,995 --> 02:57:26,775
No, your, your GPS is not a distraction in my opinion.

3421
02:57:27,285 --> 02:57:30,455
It's actually something that makes it so you have less

3422
02:57:30,455 --> 02:57:31,655
to worry about in life.

3423
02:57:31,935 --> 02:57:33,455
'cause it, you know where everything is.

3424
02:57:34,155 --> 02:57:37,325
Alright, I, that's all I had for questions. Thank you. All

3425
02:57:37,345 --> 02:57:39,125
Set, Ms, do you all set?

3426
02:57:40,225 --> 02:57:42,725
Do you want me to motion to extend Mr Chair? That

3427
02:57:42,725 --> 02:57:43,725
Would be fine.

3428
02:57:43,725 --> 02:57:45,845
Thank you. Let's go to 10 15.

3429
02:57:46,515 --> 02:57:49,165
Make a motion to extend to 10 15. Second.

3430
02:57:50,105 --> 02:57:53,405
All in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? All right.

3431
02:57:53,905 --> 02:57:56,965
So Mr. Che, right now I just, you know,

3432
02:57:56,975 --> 02:58:00,405
we've pondered about the size of the signs, whether

3433
02:58:00,405 --> 02:58:04,205
or not these signs are exceeding those

3434
02:58:04,315 --> 02:58:07,565
that are permitted within the ordinance, trying to get

3435
02:58:07,585 --> 02:58:08,885
to spirit of the ordinance

3436
02:58:09,105 --> 02:58:11,405
and of course is a question of hardship.

3437
02:58:12,185 --> 02:58:14,045
The other question that's arisen is whether

3438
02:58:14,045 --> 02:58:17,645
or not hardship establishes when the

3439
02:58:18,695 --> 02:58:21,485
owner of the property is permitted, the use

3440
02:58:22,345 --> 02:58:26,205
by the planning board with an established location for

3441
02:58:26,205 --> 02:58:29,045
that sign, which he goes into this knowing that there's a,

3442
02:58:29,045 --> 02:58:33,805
there's a location he can put a sign and then, and,

3443
02:58:33,825 --> 02:58:36,485
and whether or not that creates a hardship or not.

3444
02:58:36,835 --> 02:58:40,165
Sure. And that's one of the things that as we,

3445
02:58:40,235 --> 02:58:44,165
your neighbor was up here trying to get to and, and,

3446
02:58:44,345 --> 02:58:45,605
and have that discussion.

3447
02:58:46,345 --> 02:58:49,485
And I think there's a third point here that we're trying

3448
02:58:49,485 --> 02:58:51,405
to zero in on.

3449
02:58:51,485 --> 02:58:52,645
I think you've touched on the lighting

3450
02:58:53,345 --> 02:58:56,365
and I think that's about where I'm,

3451
02:58:56,545 --> 02:58:58,285
I'm going in my, in my thinking.

3452
02:58:58,565 --> 02:59:00,565
Anything you want to add to that before you step

3453
02:59:00,565 --> 02:59:01,565
Back?

3454
02:59:01,565 --> 02:59:03,845
Yeah, actually you, you just reminded me that

3455
02:59:04,575 --> 02:59:05,925
there was some back

3456
02:59:05,925 --> 02:59:09,045
and forth discussion about, I believe it was Mr.

3457
02:59:09,115 --> 02:59:10,565
Corbett who was a, yeah, it was Mr.

3458
02:59:10,565 --> 02:59:14,045
Corbett asking if he could potentially cut down the height

3459
02:59:14,045 --> 02:59:15,525
of the sign and Mr.

3460
02:59:15,955 --> 02:59:18,485
Yako kind of said, you know, maybe I don't really know.

3461
02:59:18,545 --> 02:59:19,605
We can look into it.

3462
02:59:21,245 --> 02:59:25,485
I do wanna point out that this board

3463
02:59:26,165 --> 02:59:27,885
approved A ZBA variance

3464
02:59:28,385 --> 02:59:31,965
and then it was within a few days we filed

3465
02:59:31,965 --> 02:59:34,245
with Superior Court and notified Mr.

3466
02:59:34,555 --> 02:59:35,925
Yako that it was being challenged.

3467
02:59:36,425 --> 02:59:38,605
He chose to spend the money to put up the sign.

3468
02:59:38,605 --> 02:59:40,845
Wait, I I so I, I don't want to cut you off,

3469
02:59:40,905 --> 02:59:43,445
but here's part of the problem we keep running into Yeah.

3470
02:59:43,505 --> 02:59:46,285
Is that you get off into these anecdotes

3471
02:59:46,345 --> 02:59:49,005
versus the merits of this case. Right. Which is, well,

3472
02:59:49,085 --> 02:59:52,645
I I I just wanna be careful though to, to, you know,

3473
02:59:52,645 --> 02:59:55,245
when he says, well look, maybe I could modify it.

3474
02:59:56,325 --> 02:59:58,005
Honestly, I don't want this board looking at it

3475
02:59:58,005 --> 02:59:59,525
and going, oh, you know, it might cost

3476
02:59:59,525 --> 03:00:00,605
him a lot of money to do that.

3477
03:00:00,785 --> 03:00:04,325
It might be hard. Maybe he can't modify it. Frankly.

3478
03:00:04,465 --> 03:00:06,405
He put it up knowing it was being challenged

3479
03:00:06,405 --> 03:00:07,645
ground. We're all aware if he has to

3480
03:00:07,645 --> 03:00:08,645
Raise it.

3481
03:00:08,645 --> 03:00:09,285
My my point is to the ground,

3482
03:00:09,505 --> 03:00:11,445
you keep going into these anecdotes

3483
03:00:11,545 --> 03:00:13,925
and you're missing, you know, two weeks ago

3484
03:00:14,225 --> 03:00:16,445
or a month ago when you were here, you came in

3485
03:00:16,445 --> 03:00:19,085
with a petition and I explained to you the difficulty

3486
03:00:19,185 --> 03:00:21,765
of a petition and what it does and what it doesn't do.

3487
03:00:22,275 --> 03:00:23,805
It's the same kind of thinking here.

3488
03:00:23,985 --> 03:00:27,405
So getting into the anecdotes, which you've tended

3489
03:00:27,405 --> 03:00:30,245
to branch off quite a bit in the last 20 minutes,

3490
03:00:30,345 --> 03:00:32,045
and this is one as well.

3491
03:00:32,675 --> 03:00:36,645
It's up to the board that to, you know, decide to,

3492
03:00:36,785 --> 03:00:37,805
to decipher that.

3493
03:00:38,065 --> 03:00:40,925
And you know, I just want to emphasize that so

3494
03:00:40,925 --> 03:00:44,645
that we can hear testimony, we can hear poignant testimony.

3495
03:00:44,675 --> 03:00:47,245
Yeah. And not have it be redundant as well.

3496
03:00:48,235 --> 03:00:49,925
Okay. I I'm not sure

3497
03:00:49,925 --> 03:00:51,685
that you're fully understanding me though.

3498
03:00:51,905 --> 03:00:54,525
You're concerned that the board is gonna have empathy

3499
03:00:54,545 --> 03:00:56,245
for the money that he spent when he was

3500
03:00:56,245 --> 03:00:57,365
warned not to put up the

3501
03:00:57,365 --> 03:00:58,365
Sign.

3502
03:00:58,365 --> 03:01:00,845
And the reason that I'm worried about that is because Mr.

3503
03:01:01,195 --> 03:01:04,165
Corbett's question should not have been a question

3504
03:01:04,565 --> 03:01:07,485
respectfully, can you modify it?

3505
03:01:08,305 --> 03:01:10,685
Of course you can. If you have to raise it to the ground,

3506
03:01:10,985 --> 03:01:12,405
The reason Mr, It shouldn't be a

3507
03:01:12,485 --> 03:01:13,485
Question.

3508
03:01:13,485 --> 03:01:14,405
So the rea Yeah, the reason I'm asking that is

3509
03:01:14,405 --> 03:01:17,085
because what's presented to me is a 16 foot sign.

3510
03:01:17,745 --> 03:01:21,085
So right off the bat, I'm really just putting it up there,

3511
03:01:21,115 --> 03:01:22,325
what concessions can be made

3512
03:01:22,325 --> 03:01:23,325
because as you noted,

3513
03:01:23,485 --> 03:01:25,525
I declared 16 feet felt too high for me.

3514
03:01:25,555 --> 03:01:28,605
Yeah. So it's, it's not, I'm nervous about

3515
03:01:28,605 --> 03:01:29,645
how much money is being spent.

3516
03:01:29,665 --> 03:01:32,445
That's, I think you know exactly what I'm asking.

3517
03:01:32,805 --> 03:01:35,565
I I do. And I, I want, I want make sure it's clarified so

3518
03:01:35,565 --> 03:01:36,885
that everybody in this room

3519
03:01:37,105 --> 03:01:38,965
and everybody who's listening also understands.

3520
03:01:38,965 --> 03:01:41,845
Yeah. For anybody who has ever attended a dairy zoning

3521
03:01:41,845 --> 03:01:46,365
board meeting, I can very personally, proudly say,

3522
03:01:46,525 --> 03:01:48,485
I unfortunately do not take into account

3523
03:01:48,485 --> 03:01:51,405
how much money anyone has spent on what they have done prior

3524
03:01:51,405 --> 03:01:52,565
to having to come to us because

3525
03:01:52,915 --> 03:01:54,165
it's unfortunately unrelated.

3526
03:01:54,165 --> 03:01:56,005
Okay. What you're, you're, I think

3527
03:01:56,005 --> 03:01:57,885
what you're doing is you're preaching to the audience

3528
03:01:57,885 --> 03:02:00,925
because we already know what statutes are and what laws are.

3529
03:02:01,025 --> 03:02:04,245
And so when you're concerned about expressing this to us

3530
03:02:04,825 --> 03:02:06,685
and, and just diverting more time

3531
03:02:06,945 --> 03:02:11,285
to caution us about being concerned about somebody else's,

3532
03:02:11,385 --> 03:02:14,445
the money they've spent, I think that's the point I'm trying

3533
03:02:14,445 --> 03:02:17,285
to get at, which is if you could just stick to the merits

3534
03:02:17,285 --> 03:02:19,125
of law with it, it would be helpful.

3535
03:02:19,515 --> 03:02:21,405
Sure. That's it. You all set?

3536
03:02:21,665 --> 03:02:23,325
Yes, sir. Alright. Ken, just

3537
03:02:23,325 --> 03:02:26,525
before we're gonna close this off, is there anybody else

3538
03:02:26,525 --> 03:02:28,925
that wants to speak to this when we reconvene

3539
03:02:29,225 --> 03:02:32,205
and that the next meeting you do.

3540
03:02:32,315 --> 03:02:36,485
Okay. Mr. And Mrs. Davis, did you wanna speak again or not?

3541
03:02:38,365 --> 03:02:40,685
I, Okay. Alright. Very good.

3542
03:02:40,705 --> 03:02:43,285
So we're gonna close this hearing off and Mr.

3543
03:02:43,465 --> 03:02:45,485
Car Carton, we're gonna close this hearing off.

3544
03:02:45,545 --> 03:02:46,845
Did you wanna speak at the next hearing?

3545
03:02:47,785 --> 03:02:49,525
Do I wanna speak at the next meeting? You say

3546
03:02:49,615 --> 03:02:52,085
We're, we're closing testimony off now.

3547
03:02:52,355 --> 03:02:54,765
Okay. So if you, I just asked the question,

3548
03:02:54,905 --> 03:02:56,165
is there anybody else that wants

3549
03:02:56,165 --> 03:02:58,925
to give testimony at the next, when we resume?

3550
03:02:59,475 --> 03:03:00,925
Okay. Do, do you,

3551
03:03:01,505 --> 03:03:02,505
Can I speak?

3552
03:03:02,785 --> 03:03:04,005
Not tonight. Do you like to speak

3553
03:03:04,005 --> 03:03:05,005
At the next meeting?

3554
03:03:05,005 --> 03:03:05,925
We're hearing now, but what

3555
03:03:05,925 --> 03:03:06,925
The next meeting?

3556
03:03:06,925 --> 03:03:09,165
So at the next meeting do you wish to speak

3557
03:03:09,225 --> 03:03:11,205
so we can know Mr. Davis as well?

3558
03:03:11,555 --> 03:03:13,965
Very good. Okay. We got three people scheduled. What

3559
03:03:13,965 --> 03:03:15,405
Is the date of the next meeting?

3560
03:03:16,505 --> 03:03:18,165
May 21st. What?

3561
03:03:18,465 --> 03:03:20,205
May 21st. Two weeks from tonight.

3562
03:03:20,905 --> 03:03:22,765
The Tuesday night. Thursday. Thursday.

3563
03:03:23,145 --> 03:03:24,845
Two weeks from tonight? Huh?

3564
03:03:25,745 --> 03:03:26,965
Two Weeks from tonight.

3565
03:03:28,125 --> 03:03:29,765
I don't think I'm gonna be here two

3566
03:03:29,765 --> 03:03:30,485
Weeks. Oh,

3567
03:03:30,485 --> 03:03:31,485
Sorry.

3568
03:03:31,485 --> 03:03:32,245
Well, we have to close off hearing. I'll tell you what,

3569
03:03:32,245 --> 03:03:35,925
if you want, you can you submit something in writing, okay?

3570
03:03:36,115 --> 03:03:37,885
Okay. Alright. Thank you very much.

3571
03:03:39,695 --> 03:03:41,085
We're gonna close this hearing off.

3572
03:03:41,425 --> 03:03:45,045
We will see all parties back here in two weeks if you wish

3573
03:03:45,045 --> 03:03:47,005
to speak to this or address the board.

3574
03:03:52,825 --> 03:03:55,005
All of the cases have been tabled for the evening.

3575
03:03:55,945 --> 03:03:58,485
The board will now wrap up on the business for the evening

3576
03:04:01,300 --> 03:04:02,765
appointment of officers.

3577
03:04:03,635 --> 03:04:06,605
That has been, I need a motion to table that please.

3578
03:04:06,915 --> 03:04:07,885
I'll make a motion to table that

3579
03:04:07,885 --> 03:04:08,765
to our next meeting. Second.

3580
03:04:08,935 --> 03:04:11,685
Thank you. All in favor of that say aye. Aye. Aye.

3581
03:04:11,734 --> 03:04:14,885
Any correspondence? Mr. Trip?

3582
03:04:14,945 --> 03:04:17,205
Did you indicate there was some correspondence? Yes.

3583
03:04:17,425 --> 03:04:20,445
You wanted mentioned? Okay. Is it this here? Yes. Okay.

3584
03:04:20,465 --> 03:04:22,165
Go ahead and speak to it real quick if you'd like.

3585
03:04:22,165 --> 03:04:26,525
The, when I was up at the Southern

3586
03:04:26,705 --> 03:04:28,165
New Hampshire Planning Commission meeting,

3587
03:04:30,425 --> 03:04:34,285
we had a presentation on accessory dwelling units

3588
03:04:35,145 --> 03:04:39,805
and I got a, a handout from

3589
03:04:40,625 --> 03:04:42,965
the New Hampshire housing.

3590
03:04:44,025 --> 03:04:47,245
So I'm going to gift this to Carrie

3591
03:04:48,145 --> 03:04:50,485
and if anybody wants to check it out,

3592
03:04:51,305 --> 03:04:52,925
you can get it from Carrie.

3593
03:04:53,555 --> 03:04:55,645
It's, it was pretty good information.

3594
03:04:57,145 --> 03:04:58,365
Did I just have that lying around up

3595
03:04:58,365 --> 03:04:59,405
there? Could you grab me a copy?

3596
03:05:00,035 --> 03:05:02,125
What? You, could you grab me an additional copy?

3597
03:05:02,985 --> 03:05:04,205
No, I, they didn't have

3598
03:05:04,205 --> 03:05:05,645
that many copies, so I only took one.

3599
03:05:05,945 --> 03:05:07,565
You don't wanna fight anybody for me? What?

3600
03:05:07,585 --> 03:05:08,725
You don't wanna fight anybody for me?

3601
03:05:09,345 --> 03:05:11,485
No, you can, you can have this one for now

3602
03:05:12,025 --> 03:05:13,205
and then you can give it to Carrie.

3603
03:05:13,905 --> 03:05:16,805
All right. Next, next business second.

3604
03:05:18,725 --> 03:05:21,445
I, we have, we have no correspondence that I can tell.

3605
03:05:22,967 --> 03:05:24,685
Next business is approval of minutes.

3606
03:05:25,085 --> 03:05:27,845
I need an approval of minutes. Excuse me.

3607
03:05:28,145 --> 03:05:30,685
And those have been amended in my correct Ms. Boudreaux.

3608
03:05:31,145 --> 03:05:32,925
Two 19. Okay.

3609
03:05:33,805 --> 03:05:37,405
I need a approval of those men minutes as amended

3610
03:05:38,585 --> 03:05:40,005
for 2 19 26.

3611
03:05:40,345 --> 03:05:42,845
So Moved. Thank you. Second, please. Mr.

3612
03:05:42,905 --> 03:05:45,045
Donlin has that second? Yeah. Thank you.

3613
03:05:45,465 --> 03:05:47,365
All in favor say aye. Aye.

3614
03:05:48,475 --> 03:05:51,085
Sustain need approval of minutes.

3615
03:05:51,665 --> 03:05:54,605
Are there amendments on the four, two? Nothing. Okay.

3616
03:05:56,165 --> 03:06:00,525
Approval of minutes for April 2nd, 26 as presented.

3617
03:06:02,715 --> 03:06:06,015
So moved. Thank You. And a second please. I'll second.

3618
03:06:06,635 --> 03:06:09,215
Who had that? Jason. Mr. Ani. Very good.

3619
03:06:09,875 --> 03:06:13,935
All in favor say aye. A. Aye. Any opposed? All right.

3620
03:06:13,935 --> 03:06:15,175
Hearing none, Mr.

3621
03:06:15,185 --> 03:06:16,615
Chair, I'll abstain from both of those.

3622
03:06:17,045 --> 03:06:19,775
Very good. Thank you. Mr. Henry. Very professional of you.

3623
03:06:19,925 --> 03:06:22,135
Nice going for the first night here. What a rookie.

3624
03:06:24,155 --> 03:06:27,015
All right. We have no other business before us,

3625
03:06:27,035 --> 03:06:29,495
but we will have a busy night the next meeting.

3626
03:06:30,715 --> 03:06:33,335
And with that we can take a motion to adjourn.

3627
03:06:33,485 --> 03:06:35,855
Well, Saturday is the seminar too.

3628
03:06:36,035 --> 03:06:37,615
Yes it is. Yep, we are.

3629
03:06:37,755 --> 03:06:41,175
So has everyone signed in for this? Yes. Yes. Yep.

3630
03:06:41,475 --> 03:06:45,295
Yep. I believe it's ending in the next like 24 hours or

3631
03:06:45,295 --> 03:06:46,295
So.

3632
03:06:46,295 --> 03:06:47,095
Okay. Good enough. Well, I keep,

3633
03:06:47,595 --> 03:06:49,295
Get and ask if I'm gonna sign up. Can we

3634
03:06:49,295 --> 03:06:52,415
Have confirmation of who is attending as well, please?

3635
03:06:52,695 --> 03:06:53,895
I think we all have. Excellent.

3636
03:06:54,565 --> 03:06:57,565
Okay. No pushups

3637
03:06:57,665 --> 03:07:00,245
for us all.

3638
03:07:00,715 --> 03:07:02,805
Take it up long. Entire Saturday. Thank Mr. Dietzel.

3639
03:07:02,805 --> 03:07:04,125
You wanna help us find the door please?

3640
03:07:05,085 --> 03:07:06,365
I make a motion to adjourn

3641
03:07:07,245 --> 03:07:08,245
A second, please.

3642
03:07:08,245 --> 03:07:10,805
Mr. Donlan. Second. All in favor of adjournment, say aye.

3643
03:07:11,225 --> 03:07:14,365
Aye. Any opposed? We adjourned. Have a good night everyone.