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Okay.

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Good evening ladies and gentlemen.

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Welcome to the zoning Board of Adjustment

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for May 21st, 2026.

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Please rise for the Pledge of Allegiance.

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Pledge Allegiance to the flag of the United States, states

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of America to three public award to stands,

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one Nation under liberty and justice for all.

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All right, thank you everybody.

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And just to begin on our my far left,

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please introduce ourselves,

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Anthony Henry Michael Donlin, Mr.

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Trip, crystal Morin,

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Allen Perkins, chair Gus Bo Biba.

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Jim Dietzel, Jason Ney.

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And we have Code enforcement Officer Carrie Owen with us

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and our clerk would be Eileen Boudreaux.

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How'd I do? All right. Excellent.

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Got all everybody's names through tonight.

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Alright, before proceeding, please shut off all cell phones,

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iPhones, anything that could create a distraction

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of the proceedings in the event of an emergency,

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please exit to the rear of the room.

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And these proceedings are audio video recorded

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and scheduled to terminate at 10:00 PM as they always do.

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Besides that, let's get into our agenda.

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The election of officers is,

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was first on the agenda, but Mr.

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Corbett is not here. He'll be tardy.

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So a motion to put that to the end of the meeting please.

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I motion. Thank you Mr. Ani. Second. Thank you.

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All in favor a aye. Aye. Thank you. All right.

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First case up is 22 dash 1 34, request for extension. Mr.

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Donlan, you sit on this, please? Yes, sir. All right.

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Is the applicant present?

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Gentlemen, this is just brief

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but kind of a formality if you'd like to go ahead

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and tell us what's going on with your project.

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Yeah, so we need to fulfill some requirements for town

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of Auburn before we are able

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to pursue a building permit with Town and Derry.

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We've made progress. It took about a year

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and a half to get the

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driveway plan designed and so forth.

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And then we had several meetings with Town of Auburn

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planning and we then had to delineate the wetlands.

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So we did that and we also hired an attorney

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to draft the, the shared driveway agreement.

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So the only thing that is pretty much outstanding

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for Auburn is to get the agreement signed

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and registered at the County of Deeds.

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And that's pretty much it. Then we can get that final letter

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to then send to dairy and take it from there.

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Is the wetlands engineering due to Auburn or dairy?

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It was requested by Auburn

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and I am not sure if we need to for dairy,

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but I mean, it's already done, so.

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Okay. Just contributes to your delay? Correct. Alright.

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But you're in process and it sounds like

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Ms. Owen, anything there from you?

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Nothing. Just to kinda re reiterate on this case,

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to remind everybody this previously was granted a variance

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June 2nd, 2022

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and was granted a two year extension, June 6th, 2024.

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And obviously things are still underway and in process.

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Okay, very good as the Stated. Good, thank you.

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Yep. Anybody have any comments before we move forward?

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Questions, concerns? No. All right. Very good.

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Okay, well let's motion this.

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Ms. Warren, Warren, sorry.

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It's okay. Found to happen in the night.

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Would you like to motion on this, please?

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I do. I make a motion on case number

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two two dash 1 34

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to grant a variance extension

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that was granted on June 22nd, 2022 to the terms

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of Article three, section 1 65 dash nine

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of the town of Dairy zoning ordinance

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and New Hampshire RSA

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6 7 4 4 1 to allow the construction

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of a single family dwelling on the property,

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which does not have frontage on a town approved street

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parcel id 1 4 0 2 1 zoned LMDR

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as presented with the following conditions, one Subject

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to obtaining astate town permits and inspections.

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And that concludes the reading of the motion.

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I need a second. Second.

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Thank you Mr. Donlin. Just a quick finding of fact.

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The applicants obviously have been in process

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development following the intentions of, of the,

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of planning layout for this project.

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Sounds like there

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that their delays are no fault of their own.

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Anybody have any amendments or anything to add to that?

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Seeing no gestures there?

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Moving this forward for a vote

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motion on the floor then seconded.

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All in favor of moving this for a vote? Say aye. Aye. Aye.

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Any opposed?

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Mr. Donlin? Yes. Mr. Trip?

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I vote yes. Ms. Morin? Yes.

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Who am I? Oh, Mr. Dietzel. Yes. Okay.

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And the chair will make it five to zero. Unanimous.

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So congratulations gentlemen.

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You're all set on that extension. You've got two years.

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Thank you very much. Thank you.

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All right, have a good evening.

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Next up is case number 26 dash one 14

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promised land survey on behalf of Craig and Jennifer.

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Who are they? What's their last name?

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Pea. Oh, Peabody. I'm sorry. Alright,

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Are those folks here?

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Anybody from You're Mr. Peabody?

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No, I'm, my name is Brandon from Promised Land Survey.

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Oh, very good. Okay. That's,

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we've requested that that be tabled.

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The client asked.

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So it, it was in the agenda that it was asked

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to be tabled, but Yep.

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I didn't know if it had become official or not.

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I'm not prepared to present it tonight.

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No, no, that's, that's fine. We got it. Just wasn't sure.

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The names always get me. Yeah.

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Alright, so we're looking for an extension there. Mr.

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Oba, would you sit for this please? I, Mr. Jeff? Yeah.

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Anybody have any qu comments before we read the motion? No.

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Alright. Very good. Mrs.

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Morn, would you read the motion for this please?

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Just to table it? Yes, please.

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I make a motion on case number two six dash four

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to table the meeting until the next meeting.

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June 4th, 2026.

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And that concludes the reading

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of the motion. I need a second.

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Second. All right.

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I don't see a reason for a finding

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of fact this is a date certain moving it forward.

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So motion's been made and seconded.

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All in favor of votes? Aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Mr.

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O Bimba?

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Yes. Okay. Mr. Trip?

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Yes. Mr. Mrs. Morin? I'm sorry.

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Yes. And Mr. Dietzel?

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Yes. And chair will make that unanimous as well.

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So we'll see you on 6 4 26. Okay. Thank you.

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Case number 26 dash one 10.

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Michelle Lamont, Laina and John Lamont.

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Mr. Dani, would you sit on this please? Yes, sir.

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You folks are joint owners on the property or single?

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No, technically I own it. I'm sorry. On

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The mortgage it's me. Okay.

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It's not But we're married. It's not

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Joint.

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Huh? It's not joint? No. Okay.

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You are married? Yes, obviously. Okay. Good enough. Alright.

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A lot of moving pieces this evening

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as you may have witnessed from the prior meeting.

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Alright, so you have your application there.

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I'm gonna have you read it for the record, okay.

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And then we'll just ask you some questions.

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So read the application that I,

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'cause there's all different, what is it?

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The one through should

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Have nine points on it.

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Have dairy application for exception.

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Yeah, it's there application is that

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you must have the following.

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So it's not that I don't know what it's, oh,

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the dwelling is his or her legal.

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So what, the thing that begins with number

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one is should this document right here?

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Yeah. So number one is the

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applicant claims of the dwelling.

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That's the first sentence there for number one unit as his

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or her legal residence.

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Yes. That's the application.

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Okay. All right. The re the residential use of,

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We're gonna ask your applicant to read. Okay.

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I thought we both kind of were. Okay.

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So the application claims as a dwelling unit as his

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or her legal residence.

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The residential use was established by the applicant prior

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to the filing of the requested for a special exemption.

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It was established December 18th, 2018.

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The purpose, the purpose of the house business will not be

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in offensive to the neighborhood by reason of the admission

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of odor, fumes, dust, smoke, vibration, noise

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or other, or other cause.

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No, the home business will be conducted within the resident

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structure of other existing structure

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or other existing structure.

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It will not exceed 25% of the finish

193
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and living area of the dwelling.

194
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Yes. The home

195
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and business was use will not change the resident's

196
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character of the dwelling or property?

197
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No. Not more than one sign

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or other advertising device will be displayed on the

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property and it will not exceed

200
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three square feet of service.

201
00:11:36,225 --> 00:11:39,805
Yes. Not more than one person.

202
00:11:41,305 --> 00:11:44,165
Not res, not resided in the dwelling unit will be employed

203
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on the premises at the same time.

204
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Total number of non-resident employees is zero

205
00:11:49,565 --> 00:11:50,845
sufficient off street parking will be

206
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provided for employees, clients,

207
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and customers where the lot, where the lot size permits,

208
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the pocket will not be

209
00:11:57,445 --> 00:12:01,765
provided within 25 feet of the front of the lot line

210
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nor within 10 feet of the side of the rail.

211
00:12:04,745 --> 00:12:09,005
Lot line must provide sketch shown pocket. Yes.

212
00:12:10,105 --> 00:12:13,165
Not more than one home business use will be

213
00:12:13,165 --> 00:12:14,245
conducted on the property?

214
00:12:14,345 --> 00:12:15,345
Yes.

215
00:12:20,065 --> 00:12:21,885
Did you provide a sketch for your parking?

216
00:12:24,365 --> 00:12:25,765
I believe I did. Okay.

217
00:12:30,565 --> 00:12:34,365
Is right in on the lot, the lot size I see

218
00:12:34,365 --> 00:12:35,365
Right in the thing.

219
00:12:35,365 --> 00:12:39,965
Yeah. So you, you provided the copy of the site plan? I did,

220
00:12:39,985 --> 00:12:40,605
Yes. Okay.

221
00:12:41,155 --> 00:12:44,925
Alright. Any questions from anybody on the board?

222
00:12:45,645 --> 00:12:50,325
I seeing nobody wanna ask?

223
00:12:50,325 --> 00:12:53,965
Well, guess, is this gonna be by appointment only?

224
00:12:54,345 --> 00:12:55,365
It is by appointment only.

225
00:12:57,185 --> 00:13:01,805
So that you, you are working hours are, are dependent

226
00:13:01,805 --> 00:13:04,045
Upon on nine to five What? Nine to five by nine

227
00:13:04,045 --> 00:13:04,925
To five? Yes. All right.

228
00:13:05,025 --> 00:13:07,405
That's good. Monday through Friday? Yeah,

229
00:13:07,585 --> 00:13:08,585
It is correct.

230
00:13:08,825 --> 00:13:12,445
And, and you have parking available on, on the property

231
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Driveway parking? Yes.

232
00:13:14,045 --> 00:13:16,605
Driveway parking? Yep. Very nice. Thank you.

233
00:13:17,955 --> 00:13:21,765
Anybody else? Mr. No. Oh,

234
00:13:23,745 --> 00:13:24,745
Mr.

235
00:13:25,265 --> 00:13:28,245
Ani, anything? Not at this moment.

236
00:13:28,635 --> 00:13:30,485
Okay, Mr. Omba? All

237
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Set.

238
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Mr. Henry? I'm

239
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All set.

240
00:13:34,765 --> 00:13:37,085
Thank you. Okay. Anything else you wanna share

241
00:13:37,085 --> 00:13:39,005
with us other than the script you had to read?

242
00:13:40,045 --> 00:13:43,165
No. Okay. All right.

243
00:13:44,465 --> 00:13:47,805
Oh, I don't see any problems here so far.

244
00:13:48,025 --> 00:13:49,965
Let me just make a call to public. Okay?

245
00:13:50,325 --> 00:13:52,645
So if anybody comes up, you'll have, has anything to say

246
00:13:52,645 --> 00:13:54,725
that you'll have an opportunity to rebut if it's

247
00:13:54,945 --> 00:13:56,325
for you or against you, okay?

248
00:13:56,355 --> 00:13:59,445
Okay. At this point, this will be an opportunity for anybody

249
00:13:59,445 --> 00:14:03,965
that wishes to speak in support of this application

250
00:14:03,985 --> 00:14:08,645
to come forward and seeing nobody arise, anybody wish

251
00:14:08,705 --> 00:14:10,205
to speak in opposition to this,

252
00:14:10,205 --> 00:14:11,885
this would be your opportunity to come forward.

253
00:14:13,575 --> 00:14:15,885
Looks like you folks are unscathed here.

254
00:14:18,145 --> 00:14:22,245
If you don't have anything else to say, add, take a motion,

255
00:14:22,345 --> 00:14:24,485
go into deliberation, please. So

256
00:14:24,485 --> 00:14:25,485
Moved.

257
00:14:25,485 --> 00:14:29,045
All right, I'll second, second please. Thank you. Mrs.

258
00:14:29,585 --> 00:14:33,285
Mor has a second. All in favor

259
00:14:33,285 --> 00:14:35,005
of deliberation, say aye. Aye.

260
00:14:35,065 --> 00:14:38,725
Aye. Aye. Any opposed? All right.

261
00:14:39,065 --> 00:14:41,285
Aye, anybody have anything they wanna start off

262
00:14:41,285 --> 00:14:42,965
with in regards to this?

263
00:14:44,435 --> 00:14:46,005
Well, I guess I, I did have

264
00:14:46,245 --> 00:14:47,325
probably a couple more things to ask.

265
00:14:47,565 --> 00:14:50,045
I should have asked what the days

266
00:14:50,045 --> 00:14:51,445
of operation should have been.

267
00:14:51,765 --> 00:14:54,405
They were nice enough to tell me that the hours

268
00:14:55,315 --> 00:14:56,685
were nine to five.

269
00:14:57,405 --> 00:14:59,845
I, I interjected with that piggybacked.

270
00:14:59,845 --> 00:15:01,085
And that was Monday through Friday.

271
00:15:01,145 --> 00:15:02,405
Monday through Friday? Yep.

272
00:15:02,995 --> 00:15:06,275
Alright. Well thank you for

273
00:15:06,945 --> 00:15:07,945
Piggyback.

274
00:15:07,945 --> 00:15:11,035
Covering my, my back. It's All right. Anybody else?

275
00:15:12,835 --> 00:15:15,355
I believe this is a permitted use.

276
00:15:15,765 --> 00:15:16,795
She's a professional

277
00:15:18,175 --> 00:15:21,435
and I believe she meets all nine criteria.

278
00:15:22,755 --> 00:15:24,395
I really don't see any problem with this.

279
00:15:24,785 --> 00:15:27,515
Okay. Very good. Thank you Mr. Dietzel. Mr.

280
00:15:27,905 --> 00:15:28,905
Dani, you're all set.

281
00:15:30,155 --> 00:15:31,195
I would just agree with him.

282
00:15:31,255 --> 00:15:35,715
It fits in the, the lot plot it fits in the house.

283
00:15:36,135 --> 00:15:39,555
It also fits on the lot. I don't see an issue. Okay.

284
00:15:39,555 --> 00:15:40,635
With any of the criteria.

285
00:15:43,165 --> 00:15:43,875
Lemme find.

286
00:15:52,375 --> 00:15:54,915
All right, let's structure the motion

287
00:15:55,555 --> 00:15:56,915
subject to obtaining all.

288
00:15:57,945 --> 00:15:59,835
Well, sorry, I skipped you Mrs. Owen.

289
00:16:00,315 --> 00:16:01,595
I knew I was forgetting something.

290
00:16:02,815 --> 00:16:04,115
Did you want to add anything here?

291
00:16:05,225 --> 00:16:07,995
There's not much to add. Obviously.

292
00:16:08,015 --> 00:16:10,795
We, we reviewed the size of the room in comparison

293
00:16:10,855 --> 00:16:12,915
to the overall home and meet's the requirements.

294
00:16:13,095 --> 00:16:14,835
We understand that there's parking in the driveway.

295
00:16:15,515 --> 00:16:18,475
I just wanna mention that if a sign is requested,

296
00:16:18,865 --> 00:16:21,035
we'd be requiring a separate sign permit in the future.

297
00:16:22,105 --> 00:16:25,075
Very good. Thank you. Thank you. Alright.

298
00:16:27,355 --> 00:16:29,555
Structuring the motions of the town's state

299
00:16:29,555 --> 00:16:31,315
and town permits and inspections.

300
00:16:31,985 --> 00:16:34,195
Anybody else have a condition they want to put on this?

301
00:16:36,095 --> 00:16:37,955
Seeing no gestures. All right, good enough.

302
00:16:38,025 --> 00:16:40,195
Well then let's take a motion come out.

303
00:16:41,155 --> 00:16:44,355
Actually, let's make sure we specify the hours there.

304
00:16:45,695 --> 00:16:49,075
Number two would be hours of operation

305
00:16:50,375 --> 00:16:54,955
Monday through Friday, nine to five.

306
00:16:58,185 --> 00:17:01,355
Okay, that's appointment only. I'm sorry. Again,

307
00:17:01,555 --> 00:17:02,995
Appointment only Adam.

308
00:17:03,495 --> 00:17:05,315
No, I I I'm not gonna say that

309
00:17:05,315 --> 00:17:07,955
because we're, we've indicated what the hours

310
00:17:08,015 --> 00:17:10,435
of operation are permitted for.

311
00:17:10,575 --> 00:17:14,715
So I, whether it's appointment only or just people walking

312
00:17:14,815 --> 00:17:16,435
and I'll leave that to the discretion.

313
00:17:16,945 --> 00:17:19,755
Obviously if parking becomes an issue then

314
00:17:21,655 --> 00:17:23,435
it gets dealt with in a different manner.

315
00:17:26,015 --> 00:17:28,195
Now, since it's a special exception, it

316
00:17:29,535 --> 00:17:31,395
it sunsets with the owner.

317
00:17:32,015 --> 00:17:33,595
It does. Yes. Yep.

318
00:17:37,015 --> 00:17:40,755
All set. Alright, take a motion. Come on. Deliberation.

319
00:17:41,255 --> 00:17:43,155
So moved. I'll second.

320
00:17:43,835 --> 00:17:47,315
Mr. Ani has a second. All in favor say aye. Aye. Aye.

321
00:17:47,375 --> 00:17:50,605
Any opposed? All right. Mr.

322
00:17:51,505 --> 00:17:52,725
Umm, you have a motion to read?

323
00:17:53,085 --> 00:17:56,965
I do. Thank you. I make a motion on case number two six

324
00:17:57,115 --> 00:18:01,805
dash zero Michelle Le Madina

325
00:18:01,865 --> 00:18:03,805
to grant a special exception as

326
00:18:04,125 --> 00:18:08,045
provided in Article six, section 1 65

327
00:18:08,915 --> 00:18:12,285
dash four eight A, one of the town

328
00:18:12,345 --> 00:18:15,645
of dairy zoning ordinance to allow the operation

329
00:18:15,705 --> 00:18:18,325
of a wig salon at the residence.

330
00:18:19,025 --> 00:18:23,045
Parcel ID 0 9 0 4 9 dash

331
00:18:23,355 --> 00:18:24,405
0 0 1.

332
00:18:25,135 --> 00:18:27,765
Zoned LDR as presented

333
00:18:27,765 --> 00:18:30,165
with the following conditions, we have two.

334
00:18:31,025 --> 00:18:32,045
One subject

335
00:18:32,105 --> 00:18:35,525
to obtaining outstate in-town permits and inspections.

336
00:18:36,265 --> 00:18:39,525
Two. The hours of operation will be Monday through Friday,

337
00:18:39,675 --> 00:18:41,885
9:00 AM to 5:00 PM And

338
00:18:41,885 --> 00:18:44,205
that concludes the reading of the motion. I need a second.

339
00:18:44,785 --> 00:18:49,365
Second. I put that motion on the floor.

340
00:18:50,455 --> 00:18:53,845
We're gonna go with the finding of fact

341
00:18:55,625 --> 00:18:57,885
the applicant is requesting special exception

342
00:18:57,905 --> 00:19:00,765
to allow the operation of a wig salon at the residence.

343
00:19:01,105 --> 00:19:03,325
The property is located in the low density

344
00:19:03,515 --> 00:19:05,245
residential zoning district.

345
00:19:05,625 --> 00:19:10,325
The salon will operate within an existing 166 square foot

346
00:19:10,325 --> 00:19:12,285
room on the first floor of the home.

347
00:19:12,745 --> 00:19:14,965
If a sign is requested, permit is required.

348
00:19:15,995 --> 00:19:17,885
Anybody have any addendums to add to that?

349
00:19:18,865 --> 00:19:20,765
Seeing no gestures. Okay.

350
00:19:20,905 --> 00:19:24,525
All in favor of moving this motion for a vote. Say aye. Aye.

351
00:19:24,585 --> 00:19:28,365
Aye. Aye. Any opposed? All right, Mr. Dietzel? Yes.

352
00:19:29,705 --> 00:19:30,705
Mr. Tripp?

353
00:19:31,565 --> 00:19:32,885
I vote yes. I find

354
00:19:32,885 --> 00:19:35,325
that the applicants have met all the criteria

355
00:19:35,465 --> 00:19:36,845
of the special exception.

356
00:19:37,545 --> 00:19:39,205
Mrs. Mor chair vote Yes.

357
00:19:41,105 --> 00:19:43,205
Mr. Dani? I vote yes.

358
00:19:44,025 --> 00:19:46,765
And the chair will make that unanimous five to zero.

359
00:19:46,945 --> 00:19:48,725
So congratulations. You're all set.

360
00:19:48,725 --> 00:19:51,925
Anybody agreed by this has 30 days, bring attention back

361
00:19:51,925 --> 00:19:54,245
to the board after that recourse will be superior court.

362
00:19:54,345 --> 00:19:56,845
But I think where there's no

363
00:19:57,455 --> 00:19:59,405
opposition here this evening

364
00:19:59,625 --> 00:20:02,045
and all butters have been notified, you should be safe.

365
00:20:02,155 --> 00:20:04,325
Okay. Great. Thank you. Have a good evening.

366
00:20:07,235 --> 00:20:10,445
Next up is case number 26 1 11.

367
00:20:11,435 --> 00:20:14,605
This is promised land survey representing s

368
00:20:14,605 --> 00:20:17,525
and t Trust Tracy and Steven Lannan.

369
00:20:18,545 --> 00:20:20,885
Mr. Chair, I'm gonna recuse myself on this case.

370
00:20:21,605 --> 00:20:23,645
I have a personal relationship with the landowner.

371
00:20:24,155 --> 00:20:28,645
Very good. Mr. Donlin and Mr.

372
00:20:29,075 --> 00:20:31,325
Dani, would you sit on this case please? Yes,

373
00:20:31,345 --> 00:20:32,345
Sir.

374
00:20:32,345 --> 00:20:32,585
Yes sir.

375
00:20:33,345 --> 00:20:37,005
All right. And good evening. Good evening.

376
00:20:37,725 --> 00:20:38,925
Promised land survey. Yep.

377
00:20:38,955 --> 00:20:40,925
Brandon Wing from promised Land survey,

378
00:20:40,955 --> 00:20:42,165
what would you like me to do first?

379
00:20:42,755 --> 00:20:44,765
Introduce it or read through the application.

380
00:20:47,075 --> 00:20:47,925
Hang on a sec

381
00:20:52,395 --> 00:20:53,085
wing, correct?

382
00:20:53,545 --> 00:20:56,085
Yes, sir. WING. Write it down. Alright.

383
00:20:57,425 --> 00:20:59,485
All right. So why don't we just start typical

384
00:20:59,715 --> 00:21:01,845
with the reading of the application. Okay.

385
00:21:02,075 --> 00:21:06,725
Okay. Go right to the points is that, that

386
00:21:07,165 --> 00:21:08,165
Criteria is fine.

387
00:21:08,165 --> 00:21:10,325
If you want to introduce it in the, the face page

388
00:21:10,325 --> 00:21:12,485
of the application, what you're doing, that's fine as well.

389
00:21:12,875 --> 00:21:15,245
I'll just skip to the points if that's okay. That's fine.

390
00:21:15,605 --> 00:21:17,845
The variance will not be contrary to the public interest

391
00:21:17,845 --> 00:21:19,165
because Whitney's Grove Road,

392
00:21:20,285 --> 00:21:22,405
I wrote Whitney Grove Road in a lot of places,

393
00:21:22,585 --> 00:21:27,125
as you'll notice, and I I it's written Whitney's

394
00:21:27,125 --> 00:21:29,205
and a lot of online information

395
00:21:29,205 --> 00:21:33,605
and Whitney, so I'll try to amend it to Whitney's.

396
00:21:33,955 --> 00:21:37,525
Whitney's Grove Road already serves as the only access

397
00:21:37,585 --> 00:21:39,005
for several dwellings in the neighborhood.

398
00:21:39,345 --> 00:21:41,445
And no new access roads are proposed.

399
00:21:42,665 --> 00:21:45,605
The spirit of the ordinance is observed

400
00:21:45,605 --> 00:21:48,645
because the proposed use, which is a residential dwelling,

401
00:21:48,985 --> 00:21:50,925
is consistent with the allowable uses

402
00:21:50,925 --> 00:21:52,845
for the LDR zoning district.

403
00:21:53,185 --> 00:21:55,565
We are not asking for relief of any dimensional

404
00:21:55,585 --> 00:21:56,685
or use requirements.

405
00:21:57,595 --> 00:21:59,125
Substantial justice is done

406
00:21:59,235 --> 00:22:00,805
because the existing lot

407
00:22:00,805 --> 00:22:03,725
of record is currently accessible over

408
00:22:03,725 --> 00:22:05,125
and across the existing roadway

409
00:22:05,665 --> 00:22:07,845
and cannot be accessed via any other route.

410
00:22:09,625 --> 00:22:11,965
The values of surrounding properties are not diminished

411
00:22:11,965 --> 00:22:15,605
because new construction homes invariably add aesthetic

412
00:22:15,655 --> 00:22:17,085
value to a neighborhood,

413
00:22:17,105 --> 00:22:19,205
but they also benefit the local real estate market

414
00:22:19,505 --> 00:22:21,445
by increasing the property values

415
00:22:21,585 --> 00:22:23,845
for comparative market market analysis,

416
00:22:25,955 --> 00:22:28,245
literal enforcement of the provisions

417
00:22:28,245 --> 00:22:31,085
of the ordinance would result in an unnecessary hardship.

418
00:22:31,645 --> 00:22:34,725
A for purposes of this subparagraph unnecessary hardship

419
00:22:34,725 --> 00:22:38,325
means that owing to special conditions of the property

420
00:22:38,325 --> 00:22:40,725
that diminish it from other properties in the area,

421
00:22:42,525 --> 00:22:43,845
lower eye, no fair

422
00:22:43,905 --> 00:22:46,165
and substantial relationship exists

423
00:22:46,165 --> 00:22:47,765
between the general public purposes

424
00:22:47,765 --> 00:22:48,805
of the ordinance provision

425
00:22:49,425 --> 00:22:50,925
and the specific application of

426
00:22:50,925 --> 00:22:52,525
that provision to the property.

427
00:22:53,585 --> 00:22:55,245
The special condition of this property is

428
00:22:55,245 --> 00:22:56,805
that it is landlocked and has

429
00:22:57,625 --> 00:23:00,205
its only access over Whitney's Grove Road,

430
00:23:00,895 --> 00:23:03,085
which is not an approved public street

431
00:23:05,625 --> 00:23:08,125
And lower I two i.

432
00:23:08,225 --> 00:23:12,005
The proposed use is a reasonable one as we see it.

433
00:23:12,005 --> 00:23:13,565
This is not only a reasonable request,

434
00:23:13,585 --> 00:23:16,445
but a necessary one as Whitney's Grove Road is the intended

435
00:23:16,505 --> 00:23:18,765
and only access to the subject parcel.

436
00:23:20,225 --> 00:23:23,565
And just back you up your written application on that

437
00:23:24,515 --> 00:23:29,285
five, that I section you had said, which is

438
00:23:30,505 --> 00:23:33,205
not an approved, your application says

439
00:23:34,265 --> 00:23:35,965
is an approved public street,

440
00:23:35,985 --> 00:23:37,765
but that's not the case, correct

441
00:23:38,225 --> 00:23:39,525
It, correct? I'm I'm

442
00:23:40,195 --> 00:23:41,195
What?

443
00:23:41,195 --> 00:23:41,765
The record record. I don't see what you're talking about,

444
00:23:41,765 --> 00:23:43,205
but I probably have a typo in there.

445
00:23:43,915 --> 00:23:45,165
Yeah, just the bottom of Wendy's.

446
00:23:45,355 --> 00:23:48,125
Yeah, The bottom line on this F first

447
00:23:48,235 --> 00:23:49,235
Page.

448
00:23:49,235 --> 00:23:51,685
Okay. Oh yeah. It is not an approved public

449
00:23:51,685 --> 00:23:52,805
street. That is correct.

450
00:23:53,305 --> 00:23:57,565
So let the record reflect that change on that application.

451
00:23:57,875 --> 00:23:59,485
Alright. Please proceed.

452
00:24:05,355 --> 00:24:07,285
Okay. So the,

453
00:24:07,755 --> 00:24:09,925
I'll just read my introduction if that's okay.

454
00:24:10,985 --> 00:24:13,445
The purpose of this application is to request a variance

455
00:24:13,445 --> 00:24:17,325
to the terms of article three, section 1 65 dash nine,

456
00:24:17,575 --> 00:24:20,005
which corresponds to the general court statute

457
00:24:20,525 --> 00:24:24,685
RSA 6 74 41 IC one.

458
00:24:25,195 --> 00:24:29,085
That statute grants local governing body the jurisdiction

459
00:24:29,085 --> 00:24:32,005
to authorize the issuance of a building permit on private

460
00:24:32,145 --> 00:24:35,125
or other non town approved highways and rights of way.

461
00:24:36,745 --> 00:24:39,245
We are requesting this variance to allow the construction

462
00:24:39,245 --> 00:24:43,085
of a dwelling and garage on map 15 lot 16 dash three.

463
00:24:46,265 --> 00:24:49,525
The lot is subsized by the current zoning ordinance,

464
00:24:49,525 --> 00:24:51,645
but is a pre-existing non-conforming lot

465
00:24:51,645 --> 00:24:56,445
of record created in 1970, which is prior to the adoption

466
00:24:56,445 --> 00:24:57,765
of the current zoning ordinance.

467
00:24:57,995 --> 00:25:00,005
Even though the lot is subsized, we're not looking

468
00:25:00,005 --> 00:25:01,645
for any relief of any of the setbacks

469
00:25:01,645 --> 00:25:04,525
as there a sufficient area to build a dwelling and garage.

470
00:25:05,345 --> 00:25:07,325
The owners purchased this lot with the intent

471
00:25:07,325 --> 00:25:09,165
of building a house for their daughter and her family.

472
00:25:09,785 --> 00:25:11,645
The dwelling will be serviced

473
00:25:11,645 --> 00:25:13,405
by private onsite well and septic.

474
00:25:13,505 --> 00:25:16,765
And I've received state shoreline shoreland permit

475
00:25:16,945 --> 00:25:19,125
and construction approval for a septic system.

476
00:25:20,265 --> 00:25:22,285
The parcel currently has access to

477
00:25:22,285 --> 00:25:24,965
and from Island Pond Road via Whitney Whitney's Grove Road,

478
00:25:25,305 --> 00:25:26,765
and there are deeded access

479
00:25:26,825 --> 00:25:30,485
and flowage rights which date back to 1929

480
00:25:32,045 --> 00:25:34,565
when Arlington Mills granted the parcel to William Chase.

481
00:25:35,475 --> 00:25:37,445
Whitney's Grove Road provides access

482
00:25:37,445 --> 00:25:39,285
to all the abutting lots, including the parcel

483
00:25:39,345 --> 00:25:42,765
that's immediately to the east of this our subject parcel,

484
00:25:43,135 --> 00:25:46,005
which was granted the same variance we're requesting on

485
00:25:46,005 --> 00:25:47,205
January 8th of this year.

486
00:25:50,965 --> 00:25:53,485
I understand that there were concerns voiced by some

487
00:25:53,485 --> 00:25:54,925
of the abutters about which condition

488
00:25:55,185 --> 00:25:57,005
and upkeep of the existing traveled way.

489
00:25:57,725 --> 00:26:01,845
I understand those concerns and truly sympathize with them.

490
00:26:01,845 --> 00:26:04,045
However, I do wanna re reiterate

491
00:26:04,045 --> 00:26:05,805
that we are not creating any new lots.

492
00:26:06,155 --> 00:26:08,965
This subject lot was created nearly 56 years ago.

493
00:26:09,345 --> 00:26:11,725
So it is a legal lot of record with ample room to build

494
00:26:11,725 --> 00:26:14,525
what we're proposing and it does have deeded rights

495
00:26:14,525 --> 00:26:15,685
to you as the existing road.

496
00:26:17,545 --> 00:26:19,645
And that's, that's all I have by way of introduction

497
00:26:19,645 --> 00:26:21,605
and I'm happy to take any questions.

498
00:26:21,935 --> 00:26:25,405
Could you replay that January, did you say January 8th?

499
00:26:25,705 --> 00:26:27,765
Yes. Okay. And it seemed like

500
00:26:28,275 --> 00:26:30,205
this had some familiarity to it.

501
00:26:30,395 --> 00:26:34,805
Yeah. When

502
00:26:34,805 --> 00:26:37,165
that came in, was it under the current owner

503
00:26:38,475 --> 00:26:39,965
When, in January 8th?

504
00:26:41,045 --> 00:26:43,805
I don't, I don't remember who, who owned that one.

505
00:26:44,245 --> 00:26:46,325
I haven't looked at the deed for transfer. So

506
00:26:46,325 --> 00:26:51,165
I, I have, at the time of my submittal,

507
00:26:51,165 --> 00:26:52,325
my application submittal,

508
00:26:54,525 --> 00:26:57,285
I have Helen Russell Protection Trust.

509
00:26:57,635 --> 00:27:00,325
Okay. I don't, I don't know if it's changed hand since.

510
00:27:04,785 --> 00:27:06,205
Is that under purchase and sale,

511
00:27:07,185 --> 00:27:09,365
The one to the east? I, I'm not sure if it,

512
00:27:09,545 --> 00:27:11,005
So is this the same property that was?

513
00:27:11,185 --> 00:27:13,325
No. I see. Okay. That's what I was looking for. Clarity.

514
00:27:13,585 --> 00:27:14,765
Oh no, I'm sorry. Fair enough.

515
00:27:15,265 --> 00:27:16,765
The one to the east, the property of the east

516
00:27:17,685 --> 00:27:20,445
received a variance for exactly

517
00:27:20,565 --> 00:27:21,685
what we're requesting tonight.

518
00:27:22,105 --> 00:27:24,885
So are you looking for a travel lane for the same,

519
00:27:25,635 --> 00:27:28,125
same corridor that the prior application was?

520
00:27:28,435 --> 00:27:29,765
It's the same, yeah.

521
00:27:30,245 --> 00:27:32,245
Existing Whitney's Grove Road, it's a private road

522
00:27:32,545 --> 00:27:35,285
and it's, it's access to this property as well.

523
00:27:41,815 --> 00:27:43,355
Any questions from anybody on the board

524
00:27:43,355 --> 00:27:44,435
just to keep things rolling?

525
00:27:56,155 --> 00:27:57,795
I have a question. Yes. Mr. Trip.

526
00:27:58,335 --> 00:28:02,715
So Whitney's Grove Road is a private road. Yes.

527
00:28:03,245 --> 00:28:05,075
Which means you probably need an easement.

528
00:28:06,255 --> 00:28:10,235
No, there's there deeded rights already exist.

529
00:28:11,175 --> 00:28:12,595
Not, not title but rights.

530
00:28:12,695 --> 00:28:16,475
So the access is already granted to the people

531
00:28:16,575 --> 00:28:17,715
who use it.

532
00:28:19,535 --> 00:28:21,995
So it is a deeded easement even though there's not

533
00:28:21,995 --> 00:28:23,475
necessarily any math on it.

534
00:28:23,545 --> 00:28:25,515
It's a deeded right of way. Okay.

535
00:28:25,515 --> 00:28:28,195
There's, there are access rights over it. So

536
00:28:28,195 --> 00:28:29,795
It's, it's it's a shared right of way.

537
00:28:30,095 --> 00:28:31,155
Yes. Okay. Thank you.

538
00:28:34,145 --> 00:28:38,395
Just to be clear, the shared driveway is starting when it

539
00:28:38,635 --> 00:28:40,195
branches off of Whitney Grove Road.

540
00:28:40,255 --> 00:28:43,235
Is that what I'm understanding from the survey?

541
00:28:47,855 --> 00:28:49,515
You're looking at the plan, right?

542
00:28:49,895 --> 00:28:53,195
The, the words that say existing access, yes.

543
00:28:53,465 --> 00:28:57,835
That goes to my client's home property right there.

544
00:28:58,255 --> 00:29:00,355
And then ano another abutting property.

545
00:29:01,015 --> 00:29:04,915
And we are proposing to branch off of Whitney's Grove there.

546
00:29:04,975 --> 00:29:08,755
So to be clear, there, there's no, there's no court or,

547
00:29:08,755 --> 00:29:11,475
or right of way that exists on Whitney's Grove Road.

548
00:29:11,785 --> 00:29:14,475
It's just a, it's, it is where it is.

549
00:29:14,665 --> 00:29:17,075
It's where it's been for many, many years

550
00:29:17,075 --> 00:29:18,795
and there's rights to pass over it,

551
00:29:19,135 --> 00:29:21,435
but there's no math like there are on

552
00:29:21,455 --> 00:29:22,555
all the streets around here.

553
00:29:23,775 --> 00:29:28,155
So it's a, it's not a a right of way that's definable,

554
00:29:29,065 --> 00:29:33,355
it's, it's deeded rights over an existing way.

555
00:29:37,065 --> 00:29:38,875
Tell you what, let's get staff report.

556
00:29:39,495 --> 00:29:42,165
Ms. Owen, you wanna help us out with some clarity here

557
00:29:42,265 --> 00:29:44,885
as well as the status of Whitney Grove Road?

558
00:29:45,195 --> 00:29:48,605
Sure. Thank you. As the applicant stated,

559
00:29:48,605 --> 00:29:51,005
they're requesting a variance to allow construction

560
00:29:51,005 --> 00:29:54,085
of a single family dwelling on a lot which does not have

561
00:29:54,085 --> 00:29:56,125
frontage on a town approved public street.

562
00:29:56,275 --> 00:29:59,445
This is a preexisting non-conforming lot of record

563
00:30:00,165 --> 00:30:02,045
with frontage on Whitney's Grove Road,

564
00:30:02,095 --> 00:30:04,125
which is a private Class six

565
00:30:04,635 --> 00:30:06,365
road not maintained by the town.

566
00:30:07,345 --> 00:30:09,885
The property is located in the low density residential

567
00:30:09,885 --> 00:30:12,805
zoning district, which requires a minimum 200 feet

568
00:30:12,805 --> 00:30:15,205
of frontage along an approved public street.

569
00:30:15,595 --> 00:30:17,725
Therefore, the variance is being requested this

570
00:30:17,925 --> 00:30:20,045
evening if approved.

571
00:30:20,265 --> 00:30:21,365
As the applicant stated,

572
00:30:21,705 --> 00:30:24,045
the future dwelling would be serviced by private well

573
00:30:24,045 --> 00:30:25,125
and private septic.

574
00:30:26,105 --> 00:30:30,405
As the law states today, per RSA 6 74 41,

575
00:30:31,165 --> 00:30:33,965
a notice of waiver of municipal liability

576
00:30:33,965 --> 00:30:37,965
and responsibility must be recorded with the deed as well

577
00:30:37,965 --> 00:30:39,405
as town council authorization

578
00:30:39,405 --> 00:30:42,605
to issue the building permit if approved.

579
00:30:42,695 --> 00:30:46,325
Based on the plan layout on the proposed plan

580
00:30:46,325 --> 00:30:47,765
that we have in front of us this evening,

581
00:30:49,005 --> 00:30:50,845
I believe a shoreland permit would be required

582
00:30:50,865 --> 00:30:53,085
to construct the proposed deach garage

583
00:30:54,705 --> 00:30:56,205
and then appropriate permits

584
00:30:56,205 --> 00:30:58,205
and inspections would be required as normal.

585
00:30:59,345 --> 00:31:00,565
So for this lot,

586
00:31:00,585 --> 00:31:03,285
as the applicant was stating this is an existing deeded

587
00:31:03,305 --> 00:31:07,605
access, similar to what we had witnessed for the property

588
00:31:07,625 --> 00:31:09,365
to the west, the way

589
00:31:09,365 --> 00:31:11,365
that Whitney's Grove is right now is it's,

590
00:31:11,795 --> 00:31:13,965
it's a gravel drive, you know,

591
00:31:14,035 --> 00:31:17,525
it's a one-way access pretty much in private street.

592
00:31:17,665 --> 00:31:22,405
So this deeded access allows, it's basically at the corner

593
00:31:22,405 --> 00:31:24,645
of their lot, but allows the access through their lot

594
00:31:24,645 --> 00:31:28,565
to access 17 and continue on to the lot to the west as well.

595
00:31:30,595 --> 00:31:33,415
And I think that's what I was looking for to Mr.

596
00:31:33,645 --> 00:31:35,455
Tripp's question, which was that this,

597
00:31:35,485 --> 00:31:38,855
that Whitney's Grove Road is, is class six and I Correct.

598
00:31:38,895 --> 00:31:42,455
I think I was trying to get a handle on that. Anything else?

599
00:31:42,965 --> 00:31:44,135
That is it. Thank you.

600
00:31:44,595 --> 00:31:46,015
Any questions from the board on that?

601
00:31:46,875 --> 00:31:50,535
So what kind of frontage does it have on Whitney Road?

602
00:31:52,795 --> 00:31:54,535
It does, it, it, I know

603
00:31:54,535 --> 00:31:55,615
Whitney Road's not an official

604
00:31:55,615 --> 00:31:56,935
Right. I'm just trying to figure out the,

605
00:31:57,485 --> 00:32:00,215
It's, It's, if, if you want, we can direct that

606
00:32:00,275 --> 00:32:01,535
to Mr. Wing.

607
00:32:01,725 --> 00:32:05,895
Okay. It has essentially a point of access.

608
00:32:06,355 --> 00:32:11,215
It has, like I mentioned, it's not a real right of way.

609
00:32:11,755 --> 00:32:15,335
So it, it just has access across that property.

610
00:32:15,795 --> 00:32:18,375
It is not defined or clear at all in the deeds.

611
00:32:19,795 --> 00:32:23,815
So it has access from Whitney Grove over

612
00:32:23,815 --> 00:32:28,375
and across Whitney's Grove and to it Yes.

613
00:32:28,915 --> 00:32:33,655
But like what's, but as far as frontage Yes, no frontage.

614
00:32:33,755 --> 00:32:35,295
It doesn't have frontage on it really.

615
00:32:35,315 --> 00:32:37,095
It just has access to and from it.

616
00:32:38,675 --> 00:32:41,445
So the frontage I, I think could be argued it's,

617
00:32:42,065 --> 00:32:45,765
the frontage may be as wide as the, the proposed driveway

618
00:32:45,785 --> 00:32:47,325
or, or whatever you might wanna say.

619
00:32:48,305 --> 00:32:51,045
So just for clarity, the application is

620
00:32:51,705 --> 00:32:56,565
to allow the construction of a single family dwelling on, on

621
00:32:57,115 --> 00:32:59,965
that does not have frontage on a town approved road.

622
00:33:00,235 --> 00:33:01,245
Yeah. And so this,

623
00:33:01,385 --> 00:33:04,125
so Whitney's Grove Road is not a town approved road.

624
00:33:04,275 --> 00:33:05,685
It's a private road. I got that.

625
00:33:05,905 --> 00:33:08,765
So, so there's no access on a town approved road.

626
00:33:09,225 --> 00:33:11,405
Yes, I understand that. So there's no frontage there at all.

627
00:33:11,595 --> 00:33:15,325
Yeah. Alright. Anything Ms.

628
00:33:15,415 --> 00:33:17,645
Solan, I might have missed there. No, that

629
00:33:17,645 --> 00:33:18,805
Was a good way to state it.

630
00:33:18,805 --> 00:33:19,805
Thank you.

631
00:33:20,345 --> 00:33:25,245
So y'all all set Mr. Dani? Yeah. Okay. Good enough. Mr.

632
00:33:25,385 --> 00:33:26,385
Donlin, anything?

633
00:33:29,025 --> 00:33:32,325
Not at this time. Mr. Henry. Ms. I'm all set.

634
00:33:32,325 --> 00:33:35,565
Thank you Mrs. Moore. Anything? I don't have anything. Okay.

635
00:33:36,085 --> 00:33:37,685
Mr. Wing, you have anything else to add?

636
00:33:38,965 --> 00:33:41,405
I don't, I don't believe so. Okay, thank you.

637
00:33:43,635 --> 00:33:47,085
It's an existing lot of records since 1970 you said? Yes.

638
00:33:47,275 --> 00:33:48,765
Okay. Emphasis on that.

639
00:33:50,955 --> 00:33:52,965
Alright, well let's make a call the public

640
00:33:54,625 --> 00:33:56,285
May, may I add one more thing though?

641
00:33:56,705 --> 00:33:58,485
The lot was created in 1970

642
00:33:58,825 --> 00:34:02,245
but the, the rights to that section, the, it,

643
00:34:02,465 --> 00:34:04,525
the lots were made smaller in 1970,

644
00:34:04,985 --> 00:34:08,485
but there, the property that was there had deeded rights

645
00:34:08,485 --> 00:34:12,525
as well back to like 1920 something I believe

646
00:34:12,675 --> 00:34:13,885
When God made the lake.

647
00:34:13,935 --> 00:34:16,325
Right. Got it. Alright.

648
00:34:17,475 --> 00:34:19,445
Alright, well let's make a call to public.

649
00:34:19,445 --> 00:34:22,965
Anybody wishing to speak favorably to this application,

650
00:34:22,965 --> 00:34:24,565
this would be your opportunity to come forward.

651
00:34:26,185 --> 00:34:29,165
We have one individual and I think this is your client.

652
00:34:29,435 --> 00:34:32,405
Yeah. Should we allow him to speak? Sure. All right.

653
00:34:32,865 --> 00:34:34,085
Mr. Lannan, have a seat. Yeah,

654
00:34:34,085 --> 00:34:35,085
I'm the owner of the Property.

655
00:34:35,085 --> 00:34:36,685
Have a seat and I'll let you

656
00:34:36,685 --> 00:34:37,925
introduce your name for the record.

657
00:34:38,305 --> 00:34:41,565
Steven Lannan. Okay. Owner of the property. Got it.

658
00:34:41,905 --> 00:34:44,565
And yeah, when I bought the, when I purchased the piece

659
00:34:44,565 --> 00:34:48,165
of land in hopes I bought two pieces of land

660
00:34:48,585 --> 00:34:50,925
and one in hopes to put a house on there

661
00:34:51,425 --> 00:34:53,285
for my daughter when I was there.

662
00:34:53,945 --> 00:34:57,565
So my concern was more when my ne I had one neighbor come up

663
00:34:58,105 --> 00:35:00,845
and, and voice their concerns about traffic on the road.

664
00:35:01,585 --> 00:35:03,725
And very, I, it'll be a very low impact.

665
00:35:03,725 --> 00:35:05,845
It's gonna be my daughter, her husband, and the kids.

666
00:35:06,785 --> 00:35:08,645
And I don't see any more than that.

667
00:35:08,705 --> 00:35:10,325
You know, it, it's summer traffic.

668
00:35:10,455 --> 00:35:13,045
We're going to see when I drive in

669
00:35:13,045 --> 00:35:15,805
and out of that road, I may see a car every

670
00:35:16,595 --> 00:35:17,885
five times in and out.

671
00:35:19,155 --> 00:35:20,165
It's lack of traffic.

672
00:35:20,645 --> 00:35:24,725
I work in maintenance on the road as many,

673
00:35:24,935 --> 00:35:28,885
every time there was snow, my truck plowed on that road.

674
00:35:29,595 --> 00:35:31,485
I've limbed those trees in that road.

675
00:35:31,755 --> 00:35:33,325
Snow limbs wouldn't come down.

676
00:35:33,665 --> 00:35:34,885
So I'm definitely there to help.

677
00:35:34,885 --> 00:35:36,285
That's what I know how to do is work.

678
00:35:37,145 --> 00:35:40,285
And I just hope we can get this through.

679
00:35:40,475 --> 00:35:42,965
It's, it's a variance to get access to the lot.

680
00:35:43,785 --> 00:35:45,565
Mr. Trip, you brought something attention.

681
00:35:46,045 --> 00:35:48,725
This is the owner of the property? Yep. Yep.

682
00:35:48,995 --> 00:35:50,445
Does did he give us his address?

683
00:35:51,235 --> 00:35:54,245
Well, we'll you, what's your actual legal address?

684
00:35:54,245 --> 00:35:56,365
23 Whitneys Grove Road. Very

685
00:35:56,365 --> 00:35:57,365
Good.

686
00:35:57,365 --> 00:36:00,645
And this is for 17 Whitneys Grove Road, correct? Yep.

687
00:36:01,305 --> 00:36:03,525
All set. Mr. Tripp. Thank you. Yep, you're welcome.

688
00:36:04,305 --> 00:36:08,725
And so I think prior on the January 8th case,

689
00:36:09,455 --> 00:36:11,805
there was questions raised about maintenance

690
00:36:11,805 --> 00:36:13,725
or sh shared maintenance or whatever.

691
00:36:14,025 --> 00:36:16,765
I'm sure you have access to some gravel

692
00:36:16,765 --> 00:36:18,085
or stone once in a while.

693
00:36:18,265 --> 00:36:19,645
Yes. Yeah. Alright. And

694
00:36:19,665 --> 00:36:22,285
so it sounds like you're already participating towards that.

695
00:36:22,545 --> 00:36:25,085
All right, any other questions from anybody on the board?

696
00:36:26,705 --> 00:36:30,925
Seeing none. Okay, let's make a call to opposition.

697
00:36:30,925 --> 00:36:34,965
Anybody else here to speak favorably? Okay. Alright.

698
00:36:35,335 --> 00:36:37,485
We're gonna have you guys take a step back

699
00:36:37,625 --> 00:36:39,525
and you'll have an opportunity to rebut.

700
00:36:39,525 --> 00:36:43,245
Correct. And so anybody in opposition

701
00:36:43,245 --> 00:36:45,285
of this application may come forward at this time?

702
00:36:50,535 --> 00:36:52,555
Oh yeah. Come right over. Sit right down.

703
00:36:55,015 --> 00:36:57,115
Hi, my name's Wendy Schoenberger.

704
00:36:57,115 --> 00:36:58,915
I live at number 15, Whitney Grove.

705
00:36:59,965 --> 00:37:04,435
We've been there since 1989, so maybe 34 years.

706
00:37:06,315 --> 00:37:08,155
I have a number of issues to bring up,

707
00:37:08,155 --> 00:37:10,595
but first I'd like to comment on a few of the questions

708
00:37:10,595 --> 00:37:14,075
that I can answer for you in regard to the road

709
00:37:14,375 --> 00:37:16,675
and comments from tonight.

710
00:37:19,125 --> 00:37:22,555
Let's see. The first one would be that I know

711
00:37:23,185 --> 00:37:25,515
without question that when that house was

712
00:37:25,775 --> 00:37:27,675
for sale last summer, the

713
00:37:27,675 --> 00:37:29,475
House of the lot At number 23, which

714
00:37:30,055 --> 00:37:34,635
at the time it was 23 slash or 17 slash 23.

715
00:37:35,135 --> 00:37:36,355
And I will explain that,

716
00:37:36,415 --> 00:37:38,915
but there was never any implication

717
00:37:38,915 --> 00:37:41,115
that a home could be built on that property.

718
00:37:42,335 --> 00:37:44,875
I'm sorry, yeah, on that property it was said

719
00:37:44,875 --> 00:37:49,435
that you could potentially build a 30 by 50 foot,

720
00:37:50,555 --> 00:37:54,435
I think they called it a shed, which was implying a garage.

721
00:37:54,635 --> 00:37:57,835
I know that because A, I looked into the property,

722
00:37:57,955 --> 00:38:00,275
I was watching it carefully throughout.

723
00:38:00,835 --> 00:38:03,675
I was there at the time, five years earlier when

724
00:38:03,675 --> 00:38:04,675
that house was built.

725
00:38:04,775 --> 00:38:06,355
And I was there at the time, three years

726
00:38:06,375 --> 00:38:09,875
before that when it came up in town auction.

727
00:38:10,695 --> 00:38:11,695
So,

728
00:38:12,815 --> 00:38:13,915
So when you say the house,

729
00:38:13,975 --> 00:38:16,035
are you talking about the house on this lot

730
00:38:16,035 --> 00:38:17,755
that the applications for number

731
00:38:17,755 --> 00:38:18,755
Seven?

732
00:38:18,755 --> 00:38:20,275
Well that's what I wanna explain is that number 17

733
00:38:20,335 --> 00:38:22,675
and 23 were one unit

734
00:38:23,055 --> 00:38:26,275
and the reason that number 23 was allowed

735
00:38:26,275 --> 00:38:30,115
to build a three bedroom, three bath, 2,400 foot,

736
00:38:30,435 --> 00:38:33,915
whatever it is home there is because the septic tank,

737
00:38:34,215 --> 00:38:36,525
and I believe the, well I'm not sure about

738
00:38:36,525 --> 00:38:40,165
that is all on number 17, which is now

739
00:38:40,165 --> 00:38:42,405
where they wanna build another home.

740
00:38:42,795 --> 00:38:44,925
They split that property off last year.

741
00:38:45,025 --> 00:38:48,645
But it was very clear if you look it up on Zillow using the

742
00:38:48,805 --> 00:38:51,725
s 'cause the road is called Whitney's as plural now

743
00:38:52,785 --> 00:38:54,445
you'll see that on there clearly.

744
00:38:56,785 --> 00:39:00,125
And when it was created in 1970, it was,

745
00:39:01,625 --> 00:39:06,125
it was a cottage at number 23 was 17, I believe attached

746
00:39:06,145 --> 00:39:07,645
to it just until last year.

747
00:39:10,225 --> 00:39:13,005
Number 19 was approved in January

748
00:39:13,385 --> 00:39:16,205
for a year round home to be built on it.

749
00:39:16,625 --> 00:39:18,125
But that lot is about two

750
00:39:18,125 --> 00:39:21,205
and a half acres as compared to this lot, which

751
00:39:21,945 --> 00:39:23,605
is really only one acre.

752
00:39:23,625 --> 00:39:26,925
But it already is part of a variance of the two lots

753
00:39:26,925 --> 00:39:30,645
that they have put together equaling 1.7 acres

754
00:39:31,435 --> 00:39:33,525
that they already have this lodge home on.

755
00:39:33,525 --> 00:39:36,965
And they already used the variance for 17 to make

756
00:39:36,965 --> 00:39:39,605
that happen because they needed the septic system there.

757
00:39:40,865 --> 00:39:42,165
All right. So I just need to be clear

758
00:39:42,405 --> 00:39:43,445
'cause you're talking about a bunch

759
00:39:43,445 --> 00:39:45,205
of different Whitney's Grove addresses.

760
00:39:45,265 --> 00:39:48,085
So the one here on the application is

761
00:39:48,085 --> 00:39:49,605
for 17 Whitney's Grove.

762
00:39:49,825 --> 00:39:54,805
Yep. The other one that was associated with it was 2323,

763
00:39:54,805 --> 00:39:56,845
Which is where the Landons live right now.

764
00:39:57,635 --> 00:39:58,925
Okay. Very nice neighbors.

765
00:40:00,705 --> 00:40:03,005
And number 19 is the lot that's behind

766
00:40:03,075 --> 00:40:04,365
that, that's on the lake.

767
00:40:04,745 --> 00:40:07,285
And that has been up for sale for about five years.

768
00:40:07,545 --> 00:40:10,885
And that was it got the permit in here in

769
00:40:10,885 --> 00:40:12,325
January and it did close.

770
00:40:12,905 --> 00:40:16,805
It did in fact belong to the Russells for years and years.

771
00:40:17,425 --> 00:40:21,845
And it now belongs to John Mason. He's a builder.

772
00:40:22,305 --> 00:40:24,645
He has a four bedroom I believe permit

773
00:40:24,665 --> 00:40:26,685
and he's gonna build and sell.

774
00:40:27,395 --> 00:40:28,525
He's in construction.

775
00:40:31,185 --> 00:40:34,405
So there's a lot of concerns

776
00:40:35,155 --> 00:40:36,645
that are coming from me.

777
00:40:37,265 --> 00:40:40,405
You did mention that the driveway situation, the condition

778
00:40:40,405 --> 00:40:42,125
of the road and everything that came from an another

779
00:40:42,525 --> 00:40:46,485
neighbor, the cars, they actually said they don't feel

780
00:40:46,485 --> 00:40:47,805
that they needed to come tonight

781
00:40:47,805 --> 00:40:50,645
because they were sure you guys wouldn't forget about them

782
00:40:50,905 --> 00:40:52,445
and their concerns with the road.

783
00:40:55,105 --> 00:40:57,245
So let's see.

784
00:40:57,245 --> 00:40:59,965
The first concern and the biggest concern that my husband

785
00:41:00,065 --> 00:41:03,205
and I have, and he's here too if you wanna hear from him,

786
00:41:03,305 --> 00:41:04,885
but is a fire hazard.

787
00:41:05,025 --> 00:41:06,725
The way the road works, Whitney Grove,

788
00:41:06,725 --> 00:41:10,205
Whitney's Grove is actually a half a mile long road

789
00:41:11,465 --> 00:41:14,605
and that half a mile road goes all the way up to the top

790
00:41:14,665 --> 00:41:15,805
to Island Pond Road.

791
00:41:18,985 --> 00:41:22,405
So the lot that we're talking about tonight,

792
00:41:22,405 --> 00:41:25,605
number 17 not only has a septic field

793
00:41:26,025 --> 00:41:29,325
and all of the attached items that need to go

794
00:41:29,325 --> 00:41:33,325
with the septic field, but it also has a right of way on it.

795
00:41:33,325 --> 00:41:38,085
That takes number 19 from Whitney's Gro into their lot

796
00:41:38,085 --> 00:41:39,605
because that is

797
00:41:42,495 --> 00:41:44,365
landlocked without that right of way.

798
00:41:44,985 --> 00:41:47,125
So this one acre lot that we have,

799
00:41:50,535 --> 00:41:53,925
which I think is about 43,500 feet,

800
00:41:54,515 --> 00:41:58,365
already has a septic on it, already has

801
00:41:59,625 --> 00:42:03,685
an obligation to duplicate that septic system.

802
00:42:04,075 --> 00:42:06,085
Exactly. According to state laws,

803
00:42:06,325 --> 00:42:07,365
I don't remember the number

804
00:42:07,425 --> 00:42:10,285
but I think I might have it in the back if you need it.

805
00:42:11,465 --> 00:42:14,565
So assuming that that's at least two

806
00:42:14,625 --> 00:42:18,085
or 3000 feet, then there's another two

807
00:42:18,085 --> 00:42:20,165
or 3000 feet gone from that.

808
00:42:21,135 --> 00:42:23,445
There are several rights of way on our road.

809
00:42:23,995 --> 00:42:26,205
There's the property at number one.

810
00:42:26,205 --> 00:42:30,045
There's a right of way for all of us to go across their lot

811
00:42:30,225 --> 00:42:34,685
or land 35 feet wide to get to number three,

812
00:42:34,685 --> 00:42:36,245
which then has a right of way.

813
00:42:37,145 --> 00:42:39,925
And then to number 21, which has a right of way.

814
00:42:39,925 --> 00:42:41,805
And that's where the road cuts off.

815
00:42:42,465 --> 00:42:46,045
And when it cuts off, I don't know if they stick

816
00:42:46,045 --> 00:42:48,445
with number 21

817
00:42:48,625 --> 00:42:52,925
or number, the car resident, whatever number that is,

818
00:42:52,925 --> 00:42:56,285
which is probably 20 or something like that in there.

819
00:42:57,305 --> 00:42:59,605
And then my part of Whitney Grove is the one

820
00:42:59,605 --> 00:43:02,125
that goes straight on down to the lake from there.

821
00:43:02,265 --> 00:43:06,965
So my house is on kind of the bottom, you know, do south

822
00:43:06,985 --> 00:43:08,165
of that red spot.

823
00:43:08,865 --> 00:43:11,085
So when you go down there, there's three houses.

824
00:43:11,385 --> 00:43:15,325
One of 'em says proton technologies and there's one more.

825
00:43:16,385 --> 00:43:18,685
And my biggest concern is a fire hazard.

826
00:43:18,745 --> 00:43:21,045
And where you have that pointer right at this moment,

827
00:43:23,245 --> 00:43:25,765
sometime about, I'm gonna guess six

828
00:43:25,765 --> 00:43:28,285
or seven years ago, that house caught on fire.

829
00:43:28,735 --> 00:43:30,365
There was a little boy living at the house,

830
00:43:30,365 --> 00:43:32,565
he was maybe 14 years old at the time.

831
00:43:33,245 --> 00:43:37,285
I think he's 20 or 21 now. So maybe it's seven years ago.

832
00:43:37,945 --> 00:43:40,485
The house caught fire. He came running over to our house,

833
00:43:40,545 --> 00:43:44,285
we had snow, thank God my husband and my son were at home.

834
00:43:44,345 --> 00:43:45,685
We were all sitting in the kitchen.

835
00:43:46,235 --> 00:43:47,685
He's banging on our slider,

836
00:43:47,685 --> 00:43:49,525
my house is on fire, my house is on fire.

837
00:43:50,125 --> 00:43:52,805
I immediately called 9 1 1, my husband

838
00:43:52,945 --> 00:43:55,685
and my son immediately ran over to that residence.

839
00:43:56,465 --> 00:43:59,765
My son, just by strange coincidence, had just finished

840
00:43:59,835 --> 00:44:04,245
that fire academy number two training as a teenager.

841
00:44:04,785 --> 00:44:06,245
And they went over there and they got

842
00:44:06,245 --> 00:44:07,605
that fire under control.

843
00:44:08,675 --> 00:44:13,245
They brought the, the mother of the, the wife of

844
00:44:13,245 --> 00:44:15,005
that residence over to my house.

845
00:44:16,345 --> 00:44:19,165
And I kept an eye on her because she was all burnt up.

846
00:44:19,185 --> 00:44:20,765
It was a horrifying night.

847
00:44:21,465 --> 00:44:24,885
And the fire department, when they arrived at that house,

848
00:44:24,985 --> 00:44:27,805
it, it was a, a dryer fire.

849
00:44:28,185 --> 00:44:31,365
But when they arrived at that house, they said to everyone,

850
00:44:31,745 --> 00:44:34,605
if my husband and my son hadn't been there, not only would

851
00:44:34,605 --> 00:44:36,205
that house have gone down,

852
00:44:36,345 --> 00:44:38,405
but we would've lost the whole area.

853
00:44:38,505 --> 00:44:39,965
You can see all the trees there.

854
00:44:40,305 --> 00:44:41,525
The ambulance had to come,

855
00:44:41,545 --> 00:44:44,285
she had burns all the way up her arms on both sides.

856
00:44:44,625 --> 00:44:47,045
She wasn't back in the house for three to six months.

857
00:44:47,145 --> 00:44:48,525
She didn't work for months.

858
00:44:48,945 --> 00:44:51,525
It was a really devastating time for all of us,

859
00:44:51,595 --> 00:44:53,125
even us next door

860
00:44:53,125 --> 00:44:57,485
because it's impossible to think of getting to the water

861
00:44:58,515 --> 00:45:01,125
when I know that you see the lake is right there,

862
00:45:01,265 --> 00:45:02,525
but when it's cold out,

863
00:45:02,525 --> 00:45:04,325
if there's ice, et cetera, et cetera.

864
00:45:04,505 --> 00:45:07,165
And we're talking about just really just kind of

865
00:45:07,165 --> 00:45:08,605
around the corner from us

866
00:45:08,605 --> 00:45:12,205
because number 19, that you gave the permit on in January

867
00:45:13,025 --> 00:45:14,765
is right next to my property.

868
00:45:15,305 --> 00:45:18,965
It has been vacant for 40 years or more.

869
00:45:19,785 --> 00:45:22,885
And with that in mind, so kind of where the red spot is,

870
00:45:23,235 --> 00:45:25,965
there's deadwood all over the place.

871
00:45:26,185 --> 00:45:28,285
I'm sure it'll be cleaned up somewhat

872
00:45:28,665 --> 00:45:30,365
and all of that area, there's,

873
00:45:30,365 --> 00:45:31,885
there's a lot of land up there.

874
00:45:33,475 --> 00:45:36,285
It's just, it's just a fire waiting to happen.

875
00:45:36,825 --> 00:45:40,245
And with that in mind, we are all terrified at the bottom.

876
00:45:40,665 --> 00:45:43,765
You can see if a fire truck comes down just at your,

877
00:45:44,185 --> 00:45:46,805
you know, right there and it turns left in there

878
00:45:48,505 --> 00:45:50,165
if fire trucks get backed up there

879
00:45:50,365 --> 00:45:53,125
'cause there's only room for one vehicle to go in there,

880
00:45:54,225 --> 00:45:55,565
we are not gonna be able to get out.

881
00:45:55,625 --> 00:45:58,285
We will have no chance of survival unless we

882
00:45:58,345 --> 00:46:00,085
and our family jump in a lake.

883
00:46:00,265 --> 00:46:02,725
That's it. And once that place burns down,

884
00:46:02,835 --> 00:46:05,325
it's not just rebuild your house,

885
00:46:05,935 --> 00:46:09,605
we're talking about it could be all trees there burnt out

886
00:46:10,225 --> 00:46:11,445
and have a no home.

887
00:46:12,065 --> 00:46:13,525
So that's my biggest concern.

888
00:46:14,035 --> 00:46:15,725
There's already gonna be a right

889
00:46:15,725 --> 00:46:18,165
of way across this number 17 lot

890
00:46:18,515 --> 00:46:22,165
that is gonna allow number 19 to get in and out.

891
00:46:23,465 --> 00:46:27,205
And it's already being a very congested area down there.

892
00:46:28,425 --> 00:46:30,725
So I first we'll talk about that.

893
00:46:31,065 --> 00:46:33,285
And then the next item of safety concern

894
00:46:33,285 --> 00:46:35,485
to me is the blind spots and traffic.

895
00:46:36,035 --> 00:46:39,605
It's a half a mile single lane

896
00:46:39,635 --> 00:46:41,165
road up and down.

897
00:46:41,265 --> 00:46:43,485
And I know Steve goes out early in the morning,

898
00:46:43,585 --> 00:46:44,725
he says he doesn't happen

899
00:46:44,825 --> 00:46:46,805
to see anybody when he comes and goes.

900
00:46:46,985 --> 00:46:49,685
But just today I went halfway up the road

901
00:46:50,545 --> 00:46:52,685
and Steve was there coming down

902
00:46:53,105 --> 00:46:55,725
and there was also a neighbor that he was talking to,

903
00:46:55,775 --> 00:46:56,805
which is fine.

904
00:46:57,465 --> 00:46:58,805
But I had to sit there

905
00:46:59,045 --> 00:47:01,365
and wait while they finish their conversation.

906
00:47:01,425 --> 00:47:04,885
And then I had to wait in the one area that there is,

907
00:47:04,955 --> 00:47:08,485
it's kind of at the halfway point for us to pass each other

908
00:47:08,555 --> 00:47:11,005
because there's no room on the road for us to pass.

909
00:47:11,385 --> 00:47:13,525
But it doesn't just happen with people talking

910
00:47:13,625 --> 00:47:16,685
to the neighbors, it happens with the UPS, the, you know,

911
00:47:16,685 --> 00:47:19,565
you name all the trucks that are coming down the dump truck,

912
00:47:19,665 --> 00:47:23,925
the the water delivery, it just goes on and on and on.

913
00:47:24,465 --> 00:47:27,245
And it could be that we are keeping different hours

914
00:47:27,425 --> 00:47:29,685
but there is a lot of traffic on the road.

915
00:47:30,105 --> 00:47:34,685
As a matter of fact, when in 1985 when the road was built,

916
00:47:34,685 --> 00:47:36,805
there were three round year round homes

917
00:47:36,865 --> 00:47:39,365
and there were a couple of cottages on the road.

918
00:47:39,935 --> 00:47:42,725
Right now we have 24 drivers on the road.

919
00:47:43,385 --> 00:47:45,325
We are talking about one more house,

920
00:47:45,905 --> 00:47:49,245
but one more house setting precedent for another family

921
00:47:49,275 --> 00:47:50,965
that owns 14 acres there.

922
00:47:50,965 --> 00:47:54,045
Are we gonna let them build 12 more houses on a road

923
00:47:54,065 --> 00:47:55,125
that's single lane.

924
00:47:55,725 --> 00:47:59,165
I mean it's just, it's out of control there as it is.

925
00:48:00,585 --> 00:48:03,445
So with all of that, you know, we have had very serious

926
00:48:03,965 --> 00:48:06,245
accidents, especially in the wintertime on the road.

927
00:48:06,965 --> 00:48:11,165
I personally was driving up the hill and it was icy

928
00:48:11,165 --> 00:48:12,965
but it wasn't a storm or anything.

929
00:48:13,105 --> 00:48:16,845
And as I was going up the main hill, another neighbor,

930
00:48:16,895 --> 00:48:20,485
she's from number 11, was driving in

931
00:48:20,585 --> 00:48:23,005
and I saw that she was sliding on the ice.

932
00:48:23,285 --> 00:48:26,765
I threw my car in reverse and went down the hill

933
00:48:26,865 --> 00:48:29,205
and during the time I was driving down the hill,

934
00:48:29,625 --> 00:48:32,285
she hit a rock, she flipped up in the air,

935
00:48:32,625 --> 00:48:34,325
her car landed on my hood

936
00:48:34,705 --> 00:48:36,805
and it fell to the ground in front of me.

937
00:48:37,065 --> 00:48:39,365
And while it was on the ground, it crushed

938
00:48:39,585 --> 00:48:41,325
and she could barely crawl out.

939
00:48:41,425 --> 00:48:44,125
And she still is having surgeries today,

940
00:48:44,975 --> 00:48:47,285
after about eight to 10 years.

941
00:48:47,845 --> 00:48:49,765
I had a child in the car at the time

942
00:48:50,265 --> 00:48:53,565
and if she landed on the roof we would have both been dead.

943
00:48:54,025 --> 00:48:56,845
And I know that you think, well you never run into anybody.

944
00:48:56,905 --> 00:48:58,445
But that day we ran into somebody

945
00:48:58,825 --> 00:49:01,085
and also the guy that lives at number 13,

946
00:49:01,225 --> 00:49:04,325
he came over the other hill, which is all blind spots.

947
00:49:04,425 --> 00:49:06,525
And I do have pictures on my phone if

948
00:49:06,525 --> 00:49:07,645
there's a way to show them.

949
00:49:08,185 --> 00:49:09,685
But as he came over the hill

950
00:49:09,705 --> 00:49:13,605
and I was coming up the other hill, he turned off

951
00:49:13,745 --> 00:49:17,245
and he slid about 30 or 40 feet into the woods.

952
00:49:17,745 --> 00:49:19,805
My husband came up with a big tractor.

953
00:49:20,025 --> 00:49:22,365
And even with the tractor, they couldn't get 'em out

954
00:49:22,365 --> 00:49:25,405
of there because it was so deep in, okay,

955
00:49:25,405 --> 00:49:27,005
So let me, I'm gonna stop you there

956
00:49:27,245 --> 00:49:29,605
'cause I, I, I appreciate the anecdotes and,

957
00:49:29,705 --> 00:49:33,365
and the excitement on Whitney's Grove Road that goes on.

958
00:49:33,465 --> 00:49:36,365
But I want to focus on something you opened up with,

959
00:49:36,365 --> 00:49:37,885
which was the septic system.

960
00:49:38,105 --> 00:49:40,685
So understand that in the guidelines

961
00:49:40,715 --> 00:49:44,125
that this board's looking at a lot of times whether

962
00:49:44,125 --> 00:49:47,845
or not the property can be develop, developed, built on and

963
00:49:48,145 --> 00:49:49,485
and acquire a permit

964
00:49:50,205 --> 00:49:52,485
becomes the most substantial point of this.

965
00:49:52,485 --> 00:49:53,485
Oh okay. Yep. Okay. But

966
00:49:53,505 --> 00:49:58,045
but that aside, what I'm gathering from your testimony is

967
00:49:58,045 --> 00:50:01,725
that you feel like the area is full at this point

968
00:50:02,185 --> 00:50:04,125
and that anybody else with property

969
00:50:04,155 --> 00:50:06,845
that has not had the fortune of developing it

970
00:50:06,845 --> 00:50:10,645
or using it to its reasonable use

971
00:50:12,875 --> 00:50:14,525
that the, that the barrel's full

972
00:50:14,525 --> 00:50:17,125
and nobody else should be able to use that. Am I correct?

973
00:50:17,715 --> 00:50:20,485
Well I think that if somebody has a three acre lot,

974
00:50:20,485 --> 00:50:22,325
which is the requirement in our area,

975
00:50:22,915 --> 00:50:24,045
that shouldn't be a problem.

976
00:50:24,705 --> 00:50:28,205
But if we're approving one acre lots with a lot of

977
00:50:29,315 --> 00:50:32,925
acreage or land that's not available on that one acre lot,

978
00:50:33,075 --> 00:50:34,645
then we're kind of opening it up

979
00:50:34,645 --> 00:50:36,565
to people making half acre lots.

980
00:50:37,325 --> 00:50:41,965
I don't think it's gonna increase the value as far

981
00:50:41,965 --> 00:50:43,485
as it goes with that house right now.

982
00:50:43,825 --> 00:50:47,885
Or I wanna say with that land right now there's a septic on

983
00:50:47,885 --> 00:50:49,805
that land for three bedroom, three bath,

984
00:50:49,895 --> 00:50:51,565
which is at number 23.

985
00:50:51,625 --> 00:50:55,365
But that's where 23 got its approval to build

986
00:50:55,365 --> 00:50:57,605
with a variance because of this piece of land.

987
00:50:58,065 --> 00:51:01,565
And if they're allowed to build another one in addition to

988
00:51:02,945 --> 00:51:06,965
the boundary buffer that a septic tank has to have

989
00:51:07,065 --> 00:51:11,405
or a septic field, they have to have I,

990
00:51:11,655 --> 00:51:13,725
let's see, 75 feet from the lake

991
00:51:13,725 --> 00:51:15,565
and wetlands, there's a lot of wetlands.

992
00:51:15,865 --> 00:51:18,645
So again, I don't want to, I don't want to stop you okay.

993
00:51:18,745 --> 00:51:22,565
But I want to kind of abbreviate this a little bit. Okay.

994
00:51:22,835 --> 00:51:25,205
They can't get a permit if they don't meet the things

995
00:51:25,205 --> 00:51:27,565
that you're requiring that you're speaking of.

996
00:51:27,905 --> 00:51:31,365
And so if this board were to grant their application,

997
00:51:31,965 --> 00:51:34,605
they still have to get those items in line in order

998
00:51:34,605 --> 00:51:35,605
to get the building permit.

999
00:51:36,235 --> 00:51:39,605
Okay. Now the acreage issue is not noted here.

1000
00:51:40,675 --> 00:51:42,605
What is the size of this lot?

1001
00:51:42,905 --> 00:51:45,245
So based on the plans we have, it's 1.1 acres.

1002
00:51:45,485 --> 00:51:47,085
I see, okay. Yes. Okay.

1003
00:51:47,945 --> 00:51:50,645
And does it say that they are, they have, they have

1004
00:51:50,645 --> 00:51:52,845
to give a right of way to number 19 on it,

1005
00:51:52,845 --> 00:51:55,805
which we have right of aways to some, a couple

1006
00:51:55,825 --> 00:51:57,525
of different people through our property

1007
00:51:57,745 --> 00:52:00,205
and it's 35 feet for the length of it.

1008
00:52:00,645 --> 00:52:02,045
I don't know what that length would be.

1009
00:52:02,185 --> 00:52:04,005
I'd say it's more than a hundred feet.

1010
00:52:04,625 --> 00:52:07,565
So will we require a municipal waiver

1011
00:52:07,585 --> 00:52:08,605
of liability on this?

1012
00:52:09,085 --> 00:52:10,085
Absolutely. And that's gonna be

1013
00:52:10,085 --> 00:52:11,125
a condition to this if it can,

1014
00:52:11,125 --> 00:52:12,485
That is a condition, correct?

1015
00:52:12,585 --> 00:52:15,925
Yep. Requirement in this area is three

1016
00:52:15,935 --> 00:52:17,005
acres zone, correct?

1017
00:52:17,105 --> 00:52:19,085
Yep. And but this is one acre,

1018
00:52:19,435 --> 00:52:21,485
It's a preexisting non-conforming lot of record.

1019
00:52:21,755 --> 00:52:22,755
Yeah.

1020
00:52:23,275 --> 00:52:26,325
Okay. There is a state approved septic design

1021
00:52:26,345 --> 00:52:27,645
as well on record for this

1022
00:52:27,645 --> 00:52:28,645
One on record.

1023
00:52:28,645 --> 00:52:31,565
And that's relatively new. It's not expired. That

1024
00:52:31,565 --> 00:52:32,845
Is, oh, it's for number 23.

1025
00:52:34,265 --> 00:52:39,165
No, I can't find the

1026
00:52:39,165 --> 00:52:40,325
date clearly in front of me,

1027
00:52:40,425 --> 00:52:44,485
but looks like it's dated March 19th, 2026.

1028
00:52:45,075 --> 00:52:46,565
Okay. And,

1029
00:52:47,105 --> 00:52:52,045
and we'll let the applicant rebut this.

1030
00:52:53,705 --> 00:52:55,365
We really don't want to get into car

1031
00:52:55,605 --> 00:52:56,925
accidents. It's not significant.

1032
00:52:56,925 --> 00:52:59,525
No, I don't, I especially don't want the teenagers

1033
00:52:59,525 --> 00:53:00,565
To Hang on a minute.

1034
00:53:00,905 --> 00:53:03,685
If you wanna abbreviate it by talking about just the safety

1035
00:53:03,705 --> 00:53:05,445
of the road and the narrowness, that's fine.

1036
00:53:05,465 --> 00:53:08,685
We get that. But you know, hearing about each accident

1037
00:53:08,785 --> 00:53:10,485
and whatnot probably is not pertinent.

1038
00:53:10,515 --> 00:53:12,285
Okay. I'm gonna hold you there for a second.

1039
00:53:12,995 --> 00:53:16,565
Does the acreage size on this matter?

1040
00:53:17,105 --> 00:53:19,205
No. Okay. Alright.

1041
00:53:21,265 --> 00:53:23,085
Why don't you go ahead and finish up your points.

1042
00:53:23,195 --> 00:53:26,045
I'll, if you can state to those that are significant to

1043
00:53:26,805 --> 00:53:29,125
what this board has purview over. Okay.

1044
00:53:29,125 --> 00:53:31,965
Okay. So if there's a pub, if there's a driveway

1045
00:53:31,965 --> 00:53:33,645
that's coming out onto a public road,

1046
00:53:33,665 --> 00:53:38,005
you generally want 200 feet visibility on each side

1047
00:53:38,025 --> 00:53:41,005
and we have impossible situation up there

1048
00:53:41,005 --> 00:53:43,005
that maybe you can see 10

1049
00:53:43,025 --> 00:53:45,365
or 15 feet one way and 30 the other way.

1050
00:53:45,365 --> 00:53:47,045
Okay, so let me hold you there. I know it's

1051
00:53:47,045 --> 00:53:48,045
A private road.

1052
00:53:48,045 --> 00:53:50,085
Lemme hold, wait a minute. I'm gonna hold you there.

1053
00:53:50,395 --> 00:53:53,885
Okay, Ms. Owen, does the sight line issue

1054
00:53:54,325 --> 00:53:57,205
for driveways apply on non town approved roads?

1055
00:53:57,225 --> 00:53:58,365
No, it does not. Alright, very good.

1056
00:53:58,515 --> 00:53:59,885
Alright, please proceed.

1057
00:54:01,535 --> 00:54:06,345
Okay, so it is wetlands.

1058
00:54:06,345 --> 00:54:07,505
We are in a drought right now

1059
00:54:07,525 --> 00:54:09,545
and you don't really see that if you look at it,

1060
00:54:09,565 --> 00:54:12,905
but it has been expected for number 19, the hub,

1061
00:54:12,965 --> 00:54:15,505
the property behind when they make their right of way,

1062
00:54:15,815 --> 00:54:19,065
that it may even need to be a bridge on a wet y year.

1063
00:54:19,245 --> 00:54:21,585
I'm not in any way familiar with

1064
00:54:21,585 --> 00:54:24,025
what their permits have been at this point,

1065
00:54:24,685 --> 00:54:26,105
but it definitely is.

1066
00:54:26,185 --> 00:54:28,185
Wetlands is so there that has

1067
00:54:28,185 --> 00:54:31,825
to fit in the septic tank. And so

1068
00:54:31,825 --> 00:54:34,905
Just just so you know, wetlands delineation will apply

1069
00:54:34,905 --> 00:54:37,025
with the septic permit. Okay?

1070
00:54:37,095 --> 00:54:41,105
Okay. Yep. And so I'm just gonna close out in the spirit

1071
00:54:41,165 --> 00:54:43,865
of the ordinance would be to allow a home

1072
00:54:43,865 --> 00:54:46,825
to be built on less than three acres in our part of town.

1073
00:54:47,095 --> 00:54:49,025
This land has already been used as

1074
00:54:49,485 --> 00:54:51,185
for a variant to build another home.

1075
00:54:52,045 --> 00:54:54,465
It already has the septic plus the second

1076
00:54:54,465 --> 00:54:55,985
identical area for that home.

1077
00:54:55,985 --> 00:54:58,865
It has the right of way, it has shoreline restrictions,

1078
00:54:58,925 --> 00:55:01,305
access to the road is dilapidated and may

1079
00:55:01,325 --> 00:55:02,465
and not maintained.

1080
00:55:02,925 --> 00:55:04,745
So we already have about 10 houses

1081
00:55:04,925 --> 00:55:07,465
and we have no agreement on this road.

1082
00:55:08,125 --> 00:55:11,305
And I don't see any way in the near future

1083
00:55:11,365 --> 00:55:13,945
or the distance future that we're gonna figure this out

1084
00:55:13,995 --> 00:55:16,625
about having two-way traffic.

1085
00:55:17,885 --> 00:55:20,545
And we don't think it is in our best interest

1086
00:55:20,565 --> 00:55:24,625
to have another small home thrown into that area

1087
00:55:24,625 --> 00:55:27,265
because it's already pretty congested down there.

1088
00:55:27,445 --> 00:55:30,025
So I don't think that the property values are gonna change

1089
00:55:30,025 --> 00:55:32,305
over this in a positive way,

1090
00:55:32,925 --> 00:55:36,065
but I do think that if an approval comes in

1091
00:55:36,125 --> 00:55:38,865
for a lot like this, that is not only an acre,

1092
00:55:38,865 --> 00:55:41,105
but it has all these other things going on,

1093
00:55:41,165 --> 00:55:44,865
it degrades the whole intention of the three acre

1094
00:55:44,925 --> 00:55:49,425
or even one acre property minimum in this town. So,

1095
00:55:49,895 --> 00:55:50,825
Okay. Anything

1096
00:55:50,825 --> 00:55:51,825
Else?

1097
00:55:51,825 --> 00:55:52,145
Thank you for your time. You're welcome.

1098
00:55:52,585 --> 00:55:54,185
I have a question, Mr. Trip.

1099
00:55:54,925 --> 00:55:57,745
So you, you made the statement

1100
00:55:57,775 --> 00:56:02,505
that there's no agreement on this access road

1101
00:56:02,685 --> 00:56:04,705
for you to be able to use it.

1102
00:56:05,895 --> 00:56:07,785
Well, I don't mean an agreement to use it.

1103
00:56:07,785 --> 00:56:10,465
We have right away across all of those different pieces

1104
00:56:10,565 --> 00:56:13,705
of land we talked about, it's an agreement with the people

1105
00:56:13,725 --> 00:56:16,545
who live on the road now to maintain it.

1106
00:56:17,445 --> 00:56:19,865
So even though there's big ruts, there used

1107
00:56:19,865 --> 00:56:22,545
to be three houses we'd all pitch in, we'd do what needed

1108
00:56:22,545 --> 00:56:25,445
to be done, but there's several people living there now

1109
00:56:25,445 --> 00:56:28,045
and they, nobody, just, nobody chooses

1110
00:56:28,045 --> 00:56:29,885
to agree on anything we wanted.

1111
00:56:29,885 --> 00:56:31,165
Even put in mailboxes

1112
00:56:31,185 --> 00:56:34,045
and nobody could agree on $50 each for mailboxes.

1113
00:56:35,785 --> 00:56:37,365
But you, you have written agreement,

1114
00:56:37,435 --> 00:56:39,205
written permission to use that road.

1115
00:56:39,665 --> 00:56:42,085
It, it, it's written right away to use

1116
00:56:42,305 --> 00:56:44,645
to cross those people's land. But so

1117
00:56:44,675 --> 00:56:47,405
It's a cross and recross type easement.

1118
00:56:48,025 --> 00:56:49,765
Say it again? It's A, this is a cross

1119
00:56:49,785 --> 00:56:50,965
and recross. Easement.

1120
00:56:51,155 --> 00:56:53,725
Yeah. Oh, I think it's a actual right away.

1121
00:56:53,845 --> 00:56:55,485
I, I'm not sure what you mean

1122
00:56:55,505 --> 00:56:57,005
by easement instead right away.

1123
00:56:57,435 --> 00:57:01,125
Okay. But it's in our deed that we can get back and forth.

1124
00:57:01,125 --> 00:57:03,325
Okay, thank you. That's, that's

1125
00:57:03,325 --> 00:57:05,285
what I was wondering if it's in the deed.

1126
00:57:05,285 --> 00:57:06,645
It's in the deed. Yep. Okay.

1127
00:57:06,665 --> 00:57:10,965
And it's registered and you can get it, you can prove

1128
00:57:10,965 --> 00:57:13,765
that you have right permission.

1129
00:57:14,455 --> 00:57:15,455
Thank you.

1130
00:57:16,515 --> 00:57:21,085
Anybody else? I think you're all set. Thank you.

1131
00:57:21,085 --> 00:57:25,365
Thank you. Anybody else wish to speak in opposition

1132
00:57:25,425 --> 00:57:26,765
of application?

1133
00:57:26,865 --> 00:57:29,085
26 dash one 11.

1134
00:57:29,995 --> 00:57:32,485
Alright, seeing nobody else rise gentlemen,

1135
00:57:32,485 --> 00:57:34,125
if you like come back up you can rebut.

1136
00:57:42,585 --> 00:57:44,845
Yes. I would like to address some of the issues.

1137
00:57:47,425 --> 00:57:51,365
It was mentioned that these two lots used was,

1138
00:57:51,465 --> 00:57:53,525
was one were were one lot

1139
00:57:53,585 --> 00:57:56,725
and that they were separated recently.

1140
00:57:57,265 --> 00:57:59,205
That's the, they've been separate map

1141
00:57:59,205 --> 00:58:03,285
and lot numbers for si since the seventies, since 1970.

1142
00:58:04,125 --> 00:58:05,365
No new lots were created.

1143
00:58:07,225 --> 00:58:09,565
The septic is a shared septic

1144
00:58:09,985 --> 00:58:12,565
and I have received state

1145
00:58:13,165 --> 00:58:14,725
construction approval for another one.

1146
00:58:17,545 --> 00:58:20,965
The new one I, the state really is cracking down

1147
00:58:21,105 --> 00:58:22,565
on septics.

1148
00:58:22,565 --> 00:58:25,445
There's a really big rewrite of the rules which took effect

1149
00:58:25,445 --> 00:58:26,605
of February of this

1150
00:58:26,605 --> 00:58:30,525
year and lot loading.

1151
00:58:30,625 --> 00:58:32,205
I'm not sure if many

1152
00:58:32,225 --> 00:58:34,325
or any of you are familiar with lot loading.

1153
00:58:34,705 --> 00:58:37,645
Lot loading requires a certain amount of land

1154
00:58:37,905 --> 00:58:42,365
or area For

1155
00:58:42,555 --> 00:58:45,245
certain amount of gallons per day of effluent.

1156
00:58:45,745 --> 00:58:49,815
You 2000 gallons per day.

1157
00:58:50,155 --> 00:58:52,055
One acre with perfect soils

1158
00:58:52,055 --> 00:58:55,295
and perfect slope can take 2000 gallons of effluent a day

1159
00:58:57,235 --> 00:58:59,015
to, to meet that requirement.

1160
00:58:59,035 --> 00:59:03,575
You remove well radii easements, steep slopes, ledge,

1161
00:59:03,845 --> 00:59:05,815
very poorly drained soils, all of that stuff.

1162
00:59:05,955 --> 00:59:08,495
And what you have left is the amount of area you can,

1163
00:59:08,955 --> 00:59:11,055
you can do a septic in.

1164
00:59:12,215 --> 00:59:15,295
I have proven out the lot loading for this lot,

1165
00:59:16,565 --> 00:59:17,895
including the load

1166
00:59:18,035 --> 00:59:19,855
of the abutting lot where my client lives.

1167
00:59:19,875 --> 00:59:22,485
The three bedroom, three or three bedroom,

1168
00:59:22,825 --> 00:59:26,165
the lots septic sizing by the state is done by bedrooms.

1169
00:59:28,065 --> 00:59:31,125
So this lot can support the

1170
00:59:31,645 --> 00:59:34,445
existing septic from my client's current dwelling

1171
00:59:34,665 --> 00:59:35,925
and what we are proposing.

1172
00:59:37,545 --> 00:59:40,325
And I have received state construction approval for that.

1173
00:59:44,145 --> 00:59:46,685
It was mentioned that rights

1174
00:59:46,685 --> 00:59:48,805
of way existed across this property.

1175
00:59:49,485 --> 00:59:52,125
You'll notice if you look at the plan, I show them there's,

1176
00:59:52,125 --> 00:59:54,685
there's not one but two wanting either end.

1177
00:59:54,725 --> 00:59:57,405
I had to remove those areas to meet lot loading.

1178
00:59:59,905 --> 01:00:02,445
So we are not proposing any construction

1179
01:00:02,825 --> 01:00:05,205
or impedance on those easements at all.

1180
01:00:05,205 --> 01:00:07,325
Those are free and clear in

1181
01:00:08,505 --> 01:00:11,885
and the, the lot immediately to the east of this,

1182
01:00:11,885 --> 01:00:13,045
which received variance in January.

1183
01:00:13,515 --> 01:00:15,565
They're in fact using that easement

1184
01:00:15,705 --> 01:00:17,765
as their access, proposed access.

1185
01:00:23,265 --> 01:00:27,325
The fire concern, I, I can't disagree with that. Right.

1186
01:00:27,435 --> 01:00:28,685
None of us can disagree with that.

1187
01:00:28,685 --> 01:00:32,605
This, there's, it would be difficult for a firetruck

1188
01:00:32,605 --> 01:00:33,725
to get down there and turn around,

1189
01:00:35,625 --> 01:00:38,325
but as is required by rs by

1190
01:00:39,555 --> 01:00:44,445
statutory rule, the this sort of thing has to sign like a,

1191
01:00:44,725 --> 01:00:47,685
a hold harmless document and record it.

1192
01:00:47,745 --> 01:00:50,645
So that will be, that will be recorded.

1193
01:00:51,245 --> 01:00:52,285
A municipal waiver of

1194
01:00:52,285 --> 01:00:53,285
Liability.

1195
01:00:53,285 --> 01:00:57,805
Yes, exactly. Site distance.

1196
01:00:58,865 --> 01:01:01,805
Mrs. Owen mentioned that that's not relevant to

1197
01:01:02,405 --> 01:01:03,805
a non-approved town road.

1198
01:01:05,945 --> 01:01:08,765
The wetlands on the lot, I, I'm a wetland scientist

1199
01:01:08,785 --> 01:01:10,805
and I did delineate the wetlands per,

1200
01:01:13,575 --> 01:01:16,955
per the Army Corps of Engineer regulations

1201
01:01:19,575 --> 01:01:21,475
and per state regulations.

1202
01:01:22,905 --> 01:01:27,045
And we are, we are meeting all

1203
01:01:27,045 --> 01:01:30,045
of the required distances and separations from the wetlands.

1204
01:01:33,305 --> 01:01:37,845
So the geography now is separated the topography I guess

1205
01:01:38,495 --> 01:01:43,165
prior to your loading calculations for your leaching system.

1206
01:01:44,385 --> 01:01:46,845
The Is, I think that's what you were saying,

1207
01:01:47,565 --> 01:01:51,285
I I removed all of the things I needed to remove area wise

1208
01:01:51,965 --> 01:01:53,045
and what's remaining.

1209
01:01:53,505 --> 01:01:55,285
That's what I do my calculations from.

1210
01:01:55,825 --> 01:01:58,485
And that calculation does not include this other

1211
01:01:58,595 --> 01:02:02,645
speculative lot that, that your client currently

1212
01:02:02,645 --> 01:02:03,645
Owns.

1213
01:02:03,645 --> 01:02:05,325
It does include it because there is a shared septic

1214
01:02:05,325 --> 01:02:07,845
with easement on this, on the subject property.

1215
01:02:08,205 --> 01:02:11,645
I see. Okay. They pump from 23, which which is on the water.

1216
01:02:11,645 --> 01:02:14,005
If you look at your plan 23 is

1217
01:02:14,005 --> 01:02:15,645
to the right side on the plan.

1218
01:02:15,875 --> 01:02:19,645
Okay. By the north arrow

1219
01:02:21,155 --> 01:02:23,165
that, that's where my client lives.

1220
01:02:23,505 --> 01:02:25,725
His septic pumps up to this lot.

1221
01:02:25,995 --> 01:02:29,165
There's a little dash dot line right

1222
01:02:29,165 --> 01:02:30,405
above the proposed garage.

1223
01:02:31,145 --> 01:02:32,685
That's the existing septic field.

1224
01:02:33,505 --> 01:02:37,845
We are, I, I don't,

1225
01:02:37,965 --> 01:02:39,445
I don't know if you have the exist, the,

1226
01:02:39,465 --> 01:02:40,685
the new septic design.

1227
01:02:41,085 --> 01:02:45,485
I included it, but yes we do. Okay.

1228
01:02:45,485 --> 01:02:47,845
That, that you'll see the new design

1229
01:02:47,845 --> 01:02:49,805
between the proposed garage

1230
01:02:49,805 --> 01:02:54,605
and the proposed house, which is it, it allows

1231
01:02:55,185 --> 01:02:58,645
all the room required for the current septic as well.

1232
01:02:58,825 --> 01:03:02,965
And the lot does support both by, by rule.

1233
01:03:03,425 --> 01:03:05,365
And I can see your elevations off

1234
01:03:05,365 --> 01:03:06,565
to the left of that plan.

1235
01:03:07,505 --> 01:03:08,805
Yes. It would be your slope.

1236
01:03:09,945 --> 01:03:12,325
The, the ones Separate from the leach field? Yes.

1237
01:03:12,465 --> 01:03:16,165
Yep. Yep. And is that slope

1238
01:03:16,825 --> 01:03:20,725
that's depicted there on the left, left lower corner

1239
01:03:20,785 --> 01:03:21,925
of your septic plan?

1240
01:03:22,125 --> 01:03:24,965
Is that actually going in the direction of the lake?

1241
01:03:26,155 --> 01:03:30,485
That, that was an area that was excavated? It's the,

1242
01:03:31,265 --> 01:03:32,485
And I'm not trying to get the bottom

1243
01:03:32,485 --> 01:03:33,485
House.

1244
01:03:33,485 --> 01:03:35,005
I'm the bottom of the house right there. Yeah.

1245
01:03:35,065 --> 01:03:37,045
Is the lower part of that? Is that what you're asking?

1246
01:03:37,435 --> 01:03:40,245
Well I just, I'm curious to orientation, that's all. Yeah.

1247
01:03:40,265 --> 01:03:42,405
I'm not trying to override your license.

1248
01:03:42,545 --> 01:03:44,765
The further, the further left you go on the plan,

1249
01:03:45,025 --> 01:03:46,165
the more uphill it goes.

1250
01:03:47,115 --> 01:03:50,525
Okay. Got it. Alright. That's just my orientation. Yeah.

1251
01:03:50,525 --> 01:03:51,725
They're tricky sometimes. Yep.

1252
01:03:52,155 --> 01:03:53,245
Okay. Thank you.

1253
01:03:56,705 --> 01:04:00,365
And then it was mentioned that

1254
01:04:01,295 --> 01:04:03,365
there was a concern about contribution

1255
01:04:03,365 --> 01:04:05,045
to the maintenance of the road.

1256
01:04:05,705 --> 01:04:08,005
My client does contribute I think

1257
01:04:08,005 --> 01:04:09,365
significantly to the maintenance of that.

1258
01:04:09,385 --> 01:04:11,965
So, and I trust that that will continue.

1259
01:04:13,195 --> 01:04:15,045
Many of you know who the Landons are there.

1260
01:04:16,275 --> 01:04:18,005
Just off the side note. Right.

1261
01:04:18,065 --> 01:04:21,365
Is there any way, 'cause Whitney's Grove Road is, I,

1262
01:04:21,805 --> 01:04:24,485
somebody said it was only a half mile from

1263
01:04:25,635 --> 01:04:27,885
from Island Pond Road looks like

1264
01:04:27,885 --> 01:04:29,085
it could be a little longer than that.

1265
01:04:29,525 --> 01:04:31,765
I I truly don't know that. I can't answer to that.

1266
01:04:32,105 --> 01:04:35,085
If, if she said that it's a half hour, I'm sure it is.

1267
01:04:35,285 --> 01:04:37,885
I mean half hour, half a mile. Half a mile, yeah.

1268
01:04:37,915 --> 01:04:39,285
Yeah. Been a long day.

1269
01:04:39,945 --> 01:04:44,335
And are there any plans or discussions?

1270
01:04:45,015 --> 01:04:47,655
I don't wanna say to form an association,

1271
01:04:47,835 --> 01:04:50,735
but to start to deal with this stuff is,

1272
01:04:50,895 --> 01:04:54,335
I, I haven't heard of any, this sort

1273
01:04:54,335 --> 01:04:56,655
of thing isn't allowed anymore by,

1274
01:04:58,035 --> 01:05:00,855
by any board because of this.

1275
01:05:00,995 --> 01:05:05,375
Mm. So any sort of subdivision that occurs that's

1276
01:05:06,045 --> 01:05:08,055
privately owned and maintained, there has

1277
01:05:08,055 --> 01:05:09,495
to be some sort of association.

1278
01:05:09,665 --> 01:05:12,735
Right. But the, the ones that are old that have been around

1279
01:05:12,875 --> 01:05:17,205
for a hundred years, they, that they aren't like that.

1280
01:05:17,385 --> 01:05:21,285
So I I have not heard if there's a, there are plans. Okay.

1281
01:05:21,285 --> 01:05:23,085
It would behoove the people to have one,

1282
01:05:23,625 --> 01:05:25,605
but it's hard to commit.

1283
01:05:25,605 --> 01:05:27,765
Alright. You know, I can understand that. Well

1284
01:05:27,765 --> 01:05:31,085
And just trying to nip at that safety issue,

1285
01:05:31,105 --> 01:05:33,245
the fire issue that, that's brought up

1286
01:05:33,425 --> 01:05:38,005
and, you know, these lots were around for a long time.

1287
01:05:38,565 --> 01:05:40,085
It's not like they were a bunch of bare land

1288
01:05:40,085 --> 01:05:43,405
that you're just carving into separate sections now.

1289
01:05:44,065 --> 01:05:48,885
And so that's, you know, I kind of understood that the,

1290
01:05:48,905 --> 01:05:50,965
the, the term is a reasonable use

1291
01:05:52,865 --> 01:05:56,445
and where it's a lot of record that essentially

1292
01:05:58,715 --> 01:06:00,725
kind of establishes that. Right.

1293
01:06:01,105 --> 01:06:04,365
And, and deeded rights exist to access it.

1294
01:06:05,395 --> 01:06:07,925
Okay. Anything else you wanna

1295
01:06:09,165 --> 01:06:10,165
I don't believe so.

1296
01:06:10,165 --> 01:06:12,525
I think I, I I hope to address all the issues

1297
01:06:13,625 --> 01:06:16,925
and I, to be clear, I have no problem

1298
01:06:16,995 --> 01:06:18,565
that these were brought up at all.

1299
01:06:19,875 --> 01:06:22,605
Okay. I, I wanna, I wanna make sure that I address 'em.

1300
01:06:22,605 --> 01:06:24,205
So if I've missed anything that was mentioned,

1301
01:06:24,825 --> 01:06:26,205
you can remind me and I'll try to

1302
01:06:26,515 --> 01:06:29,845
Yeah, no, I think, I think we've looked at all of it,

1303
01:06:30,305 --> 01:06:33,125
the questions that the Abutter brought up.

1304
01:06:35,865 --> 01:06:38,445
So unless Mr. Ani you have anything?

1305
01:06:40,425 --> 01:06:42,905
I, well, I guess my question is like, how many,

1306
01:06:44,365 --> 01:06:47,345
how much housing can you put on a road

1307
01:06:47,345 --> 01:06:50,145
that is at this stage?

1308
01:06:51,185 --> 01:06:53,105
I mean, you're saying you are, you, you mentioned

1309
01:06:53,105 --> 01:06:55,185
that we would, you know, just

1310
01:06:55,185 --> 01:06:58,385
because there's lots, are there, are we filling them all up

1311
01:06:58,485 --> 01:07:02,705
or is there a limit to how wide and how big that road is?

1312
01:07:04,695 --> 01:07:06,105
Well, essentially

1313
01:07:09,345 --> 01:07:11,565
you've got the key points here are

1314
01:07:11,675 --> 01:07:13,125
that this is a lot of record.

1315
01:07:14,665 --> 01:07:19,205
And so someone owns a parcel there that dates back

1316
01:07:19,895 --> 01:07:21,045
50 years or so,

1317
01:07:22,945 --> 01:07:24,805
and it's, it's on a path

1318
01:07:26,325 --> 01:07:31,045
a little more than a path Class six road that has been known

1319
01:07:31,505 --> 01:07:34,405
as the access point to all these parcels.

1320
01:07:35,625 --> 01:07:39,925
And to look at this in a way that you might be

1321
01:07:40,435 --> 01:07:45,405
raising your question suggests that these folks would have

1322
01:07:45,405 --> 01:07:46,525
to abandon their parcel.

1323
01:07:49,165 --> 01:07:50,505
No, I'm not saying that they would have

1324
01:07:50,505 --> 01:07:52,865
to abandon a parcel, but at one point with the,

1325
01:07:55,605 --> 01:08:00,285
when the road is a regularized road,

1326
01:08:00,985 --> 01:08:02,125
it could accommodate more.

1327
01:08:02,125 --> 01:08:04,685
Doesn't mean that it's abandoned, it just might mean it's

1328
01:08:06,445 --> 01:08:09,325
a usable portion at this point.

1329
01:08:09,995 --> 01:08:13,365
Yeah. And I may mistaken where your question was going,

1330
01:08:15,185 --> 01:08:18,005
but essentially when you are, when you're raising

1331
01:08:18,005 --> 01:08:19,365
that question, how many more

1332
01:08:20,125 --> 01:08:21,645
buildings can you put on this road?

1333
01:08:22,305 --> 01:08:26,845
If the, if there's lots of record, each lot has its right

1334
01:08:26,845 --> 01:08:28,725
to come forward and ask for that relief.

1335
01:08:29,515 --> 01:08:32,565
Okay. And just, just my clarification and,

1336
01:08:32,585 --> 01:08:35,765
and just understanding when these were made 50 years ago,

1337
01:08:35,785 --> 01:08:37,605
we had no idea what they put on them.

1338
01:08:37,605 --> 01:08:38,605
Correct.

1339
01:08:40,775 --> 01:08:42,395
Say that again. Well,

1340
01:08:42,645 --> 01:08:46,355
these were lots were made 50 years ago with a intention

1341
01:08:46,775 --> 01:08:50,515
of having them as, you know, cabins

1342
01:08:51,275 --> 01:08:54,155
seasonal or were they intentions

1343
01:08:54,155 --> 01:08:56,955
of having a full fledged home on that lot?

1344
01:08:57,115 --> 01:08:59,235
I guess that's just what I was just trying to figure out.

1345
01:09:00,895 --> 01:09:03,995
If I take you back a hundred years

1346
01:09:04,015 --> 01:09:06,835
or so, when the nation was growing

1347
01:09:07,215 --> 01:09:09,915
and the government was giving out parcels,

1348
01:09:11,055 --> 01:09:12,515
I'm thinking back then nobody,

1349
01:09:12,855 --> 01:09:14,315
nobody in their right mind knew

1350
01:09:14,315 --> 01:09:16,195
what was coming a hundred years later.

1351
01:09:16,855 --> 01:09:19,915
So in that regard, I don't know

1352
01:09:19,915 --> 01:09:21,995
that people had a necessary plan.

1353
01:09:22,495 --> 01:09:24,595
I'm sure back in the,

1354
01:09:24,695 --> 01:09:27,995
did you say the early 19 hundreds these things were formed?

1355
01:09:27,995 --> 01:09:30,675
Yeah, I have it back to the twenties. Yeah.

1356
01:09:30,785 --> 01:09:33,635
Yeah. A bunch of guys went out on a weekend, dug a ditch,

1357
01:09:33,655 --> 01:09:34,915
it became Island Pond,

1358
01:09:35,495 --> 01:09:37,195
and somebody said, let's,

1359
01:09:37,365 --> 01:09:39,275
let's grab some piece of land there.

1360
01:09:39,295 --> 01:09:41,235
We can go camping on the weekends. You know,

1361
01:09:41,915 --> 01:09:43,195
I guess that's my point. Yeah.

1362
01:09:43,375 --> 01:09:47,915
If, if new lots are created, the,

1363
01:09:48,255 --> 01:09:51,115
the road, the, the town would require the road

1364
01:09:51,115 --> 01:09:53,235
to be upgraded to current standards.

1365
01:09:54,355 --> 01:09:56,015
But existing lots,

1366
01:09:57,955 --> 01:10:00,205
like Mr. Perkins mentioned that, you know,

1367
01:10:01,155 --> 01:10:02,645
each one has the right to come

1368
01:10:02,645 --> 01:10:04,285
and ask for, for this variance.

1369
01:10:05,065 --> 01:10:06,205
If a new lot's created,

1370
01:10:06,205 --> 01:10:07,805
then it's a different, different game.

1371
01:10:09,035 --> 01:10:11,325
Yeah, I mean the, the planning process, right?

1372
01:10:11,425 --> 01:10:14,205
If somebody came in and said, we want to, we want

1373
01:10:14,205 --> 01:10:17,285
to grab this 25 acres out here on the road edge,

1374
01:10:17,345 --> 01:10:18,605
on the pond edge and,

1375
01:10:19,185 --> 01:10:22,365
and put in a 10 house development, the town,

1376
01:10:22,385 --> 01:10:26,325
the planning board would say, well start digging your road

1377
01:10:26,325 --> 01:10:30,245
because you're not gonna get it on a, on a class six road.

1378
01:10:32,035 --> 01:10:34,405
Okay. That's my, where my question was going. Alright,

1379
01:10:35,525 --> 01:10:36,525
I got a question.

1380
01:10:36,525 --> 01:10:40,885
Mr. Trip. Is there a utilities provided out there?

1381
01:10:41,445 --> 01:10:42,445
Electric.

1382
01:10:43,125 --> 01:10:45,885
Electric, yes. And private. Well, and septic on the lot.

1383
01:10:46,035 --> 01:10:47,405
Yeah. But, you know, but

1384
01:10:48,435 --> 01:10:50,205
Yeah, there, there's electric down through there. Yes.

1385
01:10:50,835 --> 01:10:55,725
Alright. Anybody else on my left?

1386
01:10:55,905 --> 01:10:56,905
Mr. John,

1387
01:10:57,955 --> 01:10:59,685
Just to be clear, there's no

1388
01:11:00,295 --> 01:11:03,245
everything else about the garage in the house

1389
01:11:03,425 --> 01:11:06,325
and you elaborated on the septic in great detail.

1390
01:11:06,325 --> 01:11:09,645
Thank you. Everything else about this is conforming

1391
01:11:09,665 --> 01:11:12,445
to setbacks and wetland setbacks and all that.

1392
01:11:12,465 --> 01:11:14,965
The only variance we're talking about right now is the,

1393
01:11:15,065 --> 01:11:16,485
the lack of road frontage, correct?

1394
01:11:17,225 --> 01:11:21,995
Yes. All set. Mr.

1395
01:11:22,055 --> 01:11:24,515
Donlin? I am Mr. Henry, anything from you?

1396
01:11:25,295 --> 01:11:27,715
I'm all set. Thank You. All right, Mr. Bumba. All set.

1397
01:11:27,865 --> 01:11:28,155
Okay.

1398
01:11:34,055 --> 01:11:35,355
All right. I think we're all set,

1399
01:11:35,575 --> 01:11:37,875
and if you have nothing else, we can take a motion

1400
01:11:37,935 --> 01:11:39,115
to go into deliberation.

1401
01:11:39,525 --> 01:11:40,995
Thank you. You're all set.

1402
01:11:41,175 --> 01:11:42,435
So moved. Second.

1403
01:11:43,045 --> 01:11:45,475
Thank you Mr. Tripp. As the motion Mr.

1404
01:11:45,815 --> 01:11:48,715
Donlin makes the second Mrs. Boudreaux. All right.

1405
01:11:49,055 --> 01:11:52,995
And all in favor of deliberation, say aye. Aye. Aye. Aye.

1406
01:11:53,215 --> 01:11:56,355
Aye. Thank you. Any opposed? Hearing none.

1407
01:11:58,015 --> 01:12:00,435
All right. So we know we're gonna add a condition,

1408
01:12:00,435 --> 01:12:02,075
municipal waiver of liability.

1409
01:12:02,205 --> 01:12:04,915
Could be presumed that that would be part of the permitting

1410
01:12:05,535 --> 01:12:08,595
and inspections aspect of this,

1411
01:12:08,695 --> 01:12:10,755
but I, I want to make that separate.

1412
01:12:12,105 --> 01:12:15,315
That would of course get registered with the deed.

1413
01:12:17,065 --> 01:12:21,875
Anybody else have anything they want to talk about here? Mr.

1414
01:12:22,225 --> 01:12:23,435
Dani? You asked good question.

1415
01:12:23,875 --> 01:12:26,155
Anything that you have questions about that you wish

1416
01:12:26,175 --> 01:12:27,315
to speak to?

1417
01:12:29,375 --> 01:12:32,435
No, I think that's, I think we answered all my

1418
01:12:32,635 --> 01:12:33,635
Questions.

1419
01:12:33,635 --> 01:12:34,515
All right. Mr.

1420
01:12:34,645 --> 01:12:36,355
Tripp, you know, there's a reference

1421
01:12:36,415 --> 01:12:39,835
to the January 8th hearing on a, on an abutting lot.

1422
01:12:39,975 --> 01:12:43,395
You had a lot of questions similar to those that you asked

1423
01:12:43,535 --> 01:12:44,875
of one of the abutters.

1424
01:12:45,895 --> 01:12:48,635
Any concerns there that you see you need to address?

1425
01:12:51,705 --> 01:12:56,275
Well, the thing is, since it is a lot of record, then

1426
01:12:58,145 --> 01:13:03,095
they have, there's no restrictions

1427
01:13:03,385 --> 01:13:06,845
other than code codes

1428
01:13:07,385 --> 01:13:11,045
on them being able to build a house, you know,

1429
01:13:11,385 --> 01:13:15,005
and as, as you mentioned, the only

1430
01:13:15,655 --> 01:13:19,565
thing the variance the applicant is asking for is

1431
01:13:20,885 --> 01:13:24,725
a variance for no frontage on a public road.

1432
01:13:25,625 --> 01:13:29,045
So it's one of these things that when,

1433
01:13:32,155 --> 01:13:33,565
when somebody wants to buy this,

1434
01:13:36,715 --> 01:13:41,165
they should be aware of the limitations

1435
01:13:42,265 --> 01:13:46,245
of, you know, getting to the property,

1436
01:13:49,115 --> 01:13:52,895
you know, transportation wise, you know,

1437
01:13:52,915 --> 01:13:53,135
and

1438
01:13:57,965 --> 01:14:00,735
weather wise, you know, the,

1439
01:14:03,155 --> 01:14:07,255
And I, and I think in this regard, it was mentioned

1440
01:14:07,285 --> 01:14:10,655
that the owners currently live there.

1441
01:14:10,815 --> 01:14:14,125
I think think the, it suggested that the subdivision or,

1442
01:14:14,305 --> 01:14:16,085
or not the subdivision,

1443
01:14:16,185 --> 01:14:19,125
but the use of the abutting lot is maybe

1444
01:14:19,385 --> 01:14:21,405
for one of the children.

1445
01:14:22,825 --> 01:14:26,925
But often in a listing if a real estate sale, you would see

1446
01:14:27,535 --> 01:14:29,685
those points implied.

1447
01:14:30,105 --> 01:14:33,965
But certainly someone that would look at an image on

1448
01:14:34,505 --> 01:14:35,925
the multiple listing service

1449
01:14:36,145 --> 01:14:39,325
and say, well, I'm gonna go look at this house,

1450
01:14:39,945 --> 01:14:41,565
and then they'd drive down this road

1451
01:14:41,585 --> 01:14:42,805
and they'd probably figure it out.

1452
01:14:44,265 --> 01:14:46,725
So. Yeah. Well, the other thing that I was thinking is,

1453
01:14:47,465 --> 01:14:50,725
you know, somebody mentioned that

1454
01:14:53,405 --> 01:14:58,245
septic tanks are, are built to number

1455
01:14:58,305 --> 01:15:00,165
of bedrooms they have to

1456
01:15:01,505 --> 01:15:04,405
su supply to.

1457
01:15:05,305 --> 01:15:07,965
And I think somebody said that the, the,

1458
01:15:09,065 --> 01:15:13,165
the one lot has a building with four bedrooms on it,

1459
01:15:13,345 --> 01:15:15,365
and this one is gonna be three bedrooms.

1460
01:15:15,385 --> 01:15:19,845
So something I should ask the

1461
01:15:20,005 --> 01:15:23,325
applicant was, is the existing tank, which is going

1462
01:15:23,325 --> 01:15:26,085
to be shared, you know, suitable

1463
01:15:26,225 --> 01:15:28,645
for seven bedrooms? You know,

1464
01:15:28,925 --> 01:15:30,895
I, I, go ahead, Mr.

1465
01:15:31,045 --> 01:15:34,295
Dong. The way I understood that was that there's

1466
01:15:34,835 --> 01:15:37,695
an existing septic area on this lot

1467
01:15:37,725 --> 01:15:41,095
that is servicing the lot, the other house 23

1468
01:15:41,315 --> 01:15:43,055
as we were referring to it.

1469
01:15:43,315 --> 01:15:45,935
And there's a whole new leaching field

1470
01:15:45,995 --> 01:15:48,935
and septic system that will service this

1471
01:15:49,775 --> 01:15:52,455
proposed three bedroom dwelling and proposed garage.

1472
01:15:53,475 --> 01:15:56,615
And I, and I think what I had heard off of that also is

1473
01:15:56,615 --> 01:16:00,215
that the, that the application for this septic is shared

1474
01:16:00,395 --> 01:16:03,135
and, but all the design criteria

1475
01:16:03,475 --> 01:16:06,295
and lot loading, the loading

1476
01:16:06,315 --> 01:16:09,295
for the bedrooms are separate from both components are

1477
01:16:09,405 --> 01:16:10,535
part of this design.

1478
01:16:10,875 --> 01:16:12,095
Oh. And,

1479
01:16:12,155 --> 01:16:16,775
and understanding that, that the septic design is, you know,

1480
01:16:16,775 --> 01:16:20,495
it's, it's a good narrative that creates understanding

1481
01:16:20,595 --> 01:16:22,415
for the board, but it's, it's,

1482
01:16:22,715 --> 01:16:25,375
the permitting itself is not in our purview.

1483
01:16:25,515 --> 01:16:30,455
Yep. Only to know that it's, it can be done. Anything else?

1484
01:16:33,435 --> 01:16:35,015
No. Mr. Donlin, anything?

1485
01:16:37,645 --> 01:16:38,935
Yeah, I got a few points.

1486
01:16:39,215 --> 01:16:43,735
I, I think that there needs to be a

1487
01:16:44,775 --> 01:16:46,775
emphasis on the major distinction

1488
01:16:46,775 --> 01:16:50,135
between an existing non-conforming lot in a new

1489
01:16:51,065 --> 01:16:53,135
subdivided lot off of a different parcel.

1490
01:16:54,115 --> 01:16:56,495
To me, that's a huge distinction.

1491
01:16:57,955 --> 01:17:02,895
As in, so if thi if this was hypothetically one four

1492
01:17:02,895 --> 01:17:05,135
acre lot, they were trying to carve a one acre lot out

1493
01:17:05,135 --> 01:17:07,655
of it, I would see this in a completely different light than

1494
01:17:07,655 --> 01:17:10,365
an existing non-conforming lot that's been there for

1495
01:17:11,095 --> 01:17:12,605
let's just say 50 plus years.

1496
01:17:12,795 --> 01:17:16,565
Sure. And so you are, you're,

1497
01:17:17,185 --> 01:17:20,125
you would just prefer clarity down the road, I guess

1498
01:17:21,005 --> 01:17:22,325
I just wanted to bring that up

1499
01:17:22,345 --> 01:17:24,325
for anybody who was listening.

1500
01:17:24,675 --> 01:17:27,605
Okay. I guess I would have one more thing to say. Mr.

1501
01:17:27,635 --> 01:17:31,885
True. The lady that was up here speaking, she said

1502
01:17:31,885 --> 01:17:36,685
that her access was recorded in her deed.

1503
01:17:38,725 --> 01:17:42,885
I, I guess I would have to ask, is this lots access

1504
01:17:43,445 --> 01:17:45,205
recorded in its deed?

1505
01:17:47,045 --> 01:17:49,445
I would get the sense that Whitney's Grove

1506
01:17:50,145 --> 01:17:52,845
as it's class six and I'm, I'm guessing,

1507
01:17:52,865 --> 01:17:55,085
but we could come out of protocol if you wanted

1508
01:17:55,085 --> 01:17:56,125
to ask the question,

1509
01:17:57,145 --> 01:18:01,405
but Whitney's Grove as it's a deeded access

1510
01:18:01,585 --> 01:18:05,805
or as a Class six, is probably the deeded access for all

1511
01:18:05,805 --> 01:18:08,205
of these parcels when they were created.

1512
01:18:09,315 --> 01:18:12,245
Well, the thing is, it appears that this lot, which is

1513
01:18:13,155 --> 01:18:17,645
16 dash three, has access from 16

1514
01:18:18,195 --> 01:18:20,765
dash 15 to Whitney's Grove.

1515
01:18:21,825 --> 01:18:25,785
You know, so would,

1516
01:18:27,995 --> 01:18:30,305
would it have in its deed that

1517
01:18:33,405 --> 01:18:35,385
it would get that a access across

1518
01:18:36,015 --> 01:18:38,065
16 dash 15 to Whitney's Grove?

1519
01:18:41,295 --> 01:18:43,985
When I'm looking on their deed that we have in our files,

1520
01:18:44,165 --> 01:18:49,065
it does say processing lot 15 and 16 on their deed.

1521
01:18:49,245 --> 01:18:51,625
Oh, alright. Good. Thank you Mr.

1522
01:18:52,015 --> 01:18:54,825
Dani, you good there Mr. Tripp?

1523
01:18:55,065 --> 01:18:59,105
I am. Okay. And so, Mr. Dani, anything else from you?

1524
01:19:00,285 --> 01:19:03,145
No, I think Donnelley helped clarify it. Thank you.

1525
01:19:03,375 --> 01:19:06,745
Okay. And Mr. Moore, you're all set?

1526
01:19:07,205 --> 01:19:10,505
No, I had just one thing to go off of what Mr.

1527
01:19:10,535 --> 01:19:14,985
Donnellan said. It is the preexisting non-conforming lot

1528
01:19:14,985 --> 01:19:18,225
of record, but the town did own it just 10 years ago

1529
01:19:18,805 --> 01:19:20,705
and nothing changed when it sold.

1530
01:19:20,765 --> 01:19:24,985
So I just wanna make that point to have that on the record

1531
01:19:25,135 --> 01:19:27,865
that it was town owned only 10 years ago.

1532
01:19:28,295 --> 01:19:28,585
Okay.

1533
01:19:34,085 --> 01:19:36,615
Alright. So in, in my regard

1534
01:19:37,195 --> 01:19:41,255
and being have gone down this road myself in the past,

1535
01:19:41,925 --> 01:19:44,415
usually lots of record that are historic,

1536
01:19:45,535 --> 01:19:48,935
insulate themselves from some of the normal criteria,

1537
01:19:49,005 --> 01:19:53,415
updated zoning ordinances that may

1538
01:19:54,575 --> 01:19:58,095
commonly surround

1539
01:19:58,495 --> 01:19:59,895
development of property.

1540
01:20:00,715 --> 01:20:03,415
And overall, I, I don't,

1541
01:20:03,475 --> 01:20:05,215
I'm not seeing a conflict with this.

1542
01:20:05,385 --> 01:20:07,135
We've, we've granted this, that

1543
01:20:07,305 --> 01:20:09,125
as Mrs. Moore has just indicated,

1544
01:20:09,185 --> 01:20:11,645
the town owned this property 10 years ago.

1545
01:20:12,795 --> 01:20:16,765
They sold that by the, the town sold it off by their right.

1546
01:20:18,025 --> 01:20:20,205
And so that right should be perpetual

1547
01:20:20,305 --> 01:20:25,305
to the next owners structuring the motion.

1548
01:20:25,825 --> 01:20:27,885
We have subject to obtaining all state

1549
01:20:27,885 --> 01:20:29,565
and town permits and inspections.

1550
01:20:30,345 --> 01:20:31,685
The second condition on

1551
01:20:31,685 --> 01:20:33,885
that would be a municipal waiver of liability.

1552
01:20:34,825 --> 01:20:37,805
The board does not hold any

1553
01:20:40,215 --> 01:20:44,125
delegation here to address maintenance of this road.

1554
01:20:44,235 --> 01:20:47,245
It's a private road class six road.

1555
01:20:47,625 --> 01:20:49,485
So that's not in our purview.

1556
01:20:50,475 --> 01:20:53,085
Does anybody else have any other conditions they see

1557
01:20:53,085 --> 01:20:54,365
appropriate on this motion

1558
01:20:54,465 --> 01:20:56,845
before we come outta deliberation?

1559
01:20:58,865 --> 01:21:01,805
No, I think where it's already allot of record.

1560
01:21:02,075 --> 01:21:03,965
Very good. No gestures there.

1561
01:21:04,105 --> 01:21:07,245
So in that case, let's come outta deliberation.

1562
01:21:07,725 --> 01:21:09,245
Gimme a motion. Mr. Dani?

1563
01:21:09,715 --> 01:21:13,085
Yeah, I a motion to come outta deliberation.

1564
01:21:13,365 --> 01:21:15,685
I have a second please. Second. Thank you Mr.

1565
01:21:15,945 --> 01:21:17,005
Donlin. Yours

1566
01:21:17,105 --> 01:21:18,105
To read for.

1567
01:21:18,775 --> 01:21:19,835
Can I read for you?

1568
01:21:20,505 --> 01:21:22,235
Sure. There you go.

1569
01:21:22,975 --> 01:21:26,315
All in favor of coming out of deliberation, say aye. Aye.

1570
01:21:26,655 --> 01:21:29,875
Aye. Any opposed? Mrs. Moore,

1571
01:21:30,015 --> 01:21:32,395
you have a motion to read?

1572
01:21:32,755 --> 01:21:36,515
I do. Thank you. I make a motion on case number two six

1573
01:21:36,585 --> 01:21:41,115
dash one promised land survey LLC

1574
01:21:41,375 --> 01:21:43,155
to grant a variance as

1575
01:21:43,515 --> 01:21:48,355
provided in Article three, section 1 65 dash nine

1576
01:21:48,535 --> 01:21:52,715
of the town of dairy zoning ordinance in New Hampshire, RSA

1577
01:21:53,415 --> 01:21:57,035
6 7 4 4 1 to allow the construction

1578
01:21:57,035 --> 01:21:59,915
of a single family dwelling on the lot,

1579
01:21:59,915 --> 01:22:03,515
which does not have frontage on a town approved street

1580
01:22:04,455 --> 01:22:06,275
on a town not approved street

1581
01:22:06,815 --> 01:22:11,675
parcel ID 1 5 0 1 6 dash 0 0 3

1582
01:22:12,165 --> 01:22:14,395
zoned LDR as presented

1583
01:22:14,395 --> 01:22:17,235
with the following conditions we have two.

1584
01:22:17,935 --> 01:22:19,995
One subject to obtaining all state

1585
01:22:19,995 --> 01:22:21,915
and town permits and inspections.

1586
01:22:22,455 --> 01:22:26,475
Two will require a municipal waiver of liability.

1587
01:22:26,775 --> 01:22:28,635
And that concludes the reading of the motion.

1588
01:22:28,835 --> 01:22:29,835
I need a second.

1589
01:22:30,735 --> 01:22:35,435
Second. Alright. Thank you Mr. Tripp.

1590
01:22:36,065 --> 01:22:38,315
That puts that motion on the table.

1591
01:22:40,455 --> 01:22:41,555
I'm sorry, on the floor.

1592
01:22:44,055 --> 01:22:48,715
That's like saying water over the bridge. Right. All right.

1593
01:22:48,715 --> 01:22:51,275
Finding a fact for case number 26 dash

1594
01:22:54,615 --> 01:22:58,535
one 11 Heard

1595
01:22:58,595 --> 01:23:02,055
May 7th, 2026 as ZBA heard the application

1596
01:23:02,055 --> 01:23:05,645
of promised land survey LLC on behalf of s

1597
01:23:05,645 --> 01:23:08,565
and t nominee trust

1598
01:23:09,085 --> 01:23:13,125
concerning the property located at 17 Whitneys Grove Road

1599
01:23:13,145 --> 01:23:17,525
parcel ID 1 5 0 1 16 dash 0 0 3

1600
01:23:17,905 --> 01:23:20,765
notice was provided to the immediate abut per statute.

1601
01:23:20,945 --> 01:23:24,245
The board received testimony from the applicant,

1602
01:23:24,295 --> 01:23:28,885
legal counsel, town staff, if appropriate it is

1603
01:23:29,065 --> 01:23:31,445
and abutters in members of the public

1604
01:23:32,325 --> 01:23:33,765
documentary evidence included,

1605
01:23:33,825 --> 01:23:36,725
but was not limited to site plans, photos, records,

1606
01:23:36,945 --> 01:23:38,285
and expert testimony.

1607
01:23:38,675 --> 01:23:42,285
This is the, a pre-existing non-conforming lot of record

1608
01:23:42,315 --> 01:23:44,605
with frontage on Whitney's Grove Road.

1609
01:23:45,125 --> 01:23:48,605
A private class six road that is not maintained by the town

1610
01:23:49,325 --> 01:23:51,765
property is located in the low density residential

1611
01:23:51,865 --> 01:23:52,885
zoning district.

1612
01:23:53,275 --> 01:23:55,765
This district requires a minimum of 200 feet

1613
01:23:55,765 --> 01:23:58,365
of frontage along an approved public street.

1614
01:23:58,365 --> 01:24:01,765
Therefore, a variance is being requested if approved.

1615
01:24:01,905 --> 01:24:06,405
Per RSA 6 74 41 a notice of waiver

1616
01:24:06,465 --> 01:24:07,805
of municipal liability

1617
01:24:07,865 --> 01:24:09,685
and responsibility must be recorded

1618
01:24:09,715 --> 01:24:12,885
with the deed Town council authorization is required

1619
01:24:12,885 --> 01:24:14,165
to issue the building permit.

1620
01:24:14,625 --> 01:24:16,965
The board weighed testimony both for

1621
01:24:17,025 --> 01:24:18,285
and against the proposal.

1622
01:24:19,845 --> 01:24:24,765
A And I've messed up the order here of, of our documents

1623
01:24:24,765 --> 01:24:28,805
that are usually very well prepared till I

1624
01:24:28,805 --> 01:24:29,885
get my hands on 'em.

1625
01:24:30,425 --> 01:24:33,205
So in regards to the board's findings

1626
01:24:33,205 --> 01:24:38,045
of fact on the contrary to the public interest, Mr.

1627
01:24:38,345 --> 01:24:40,725
Donlin, what say you on that regard?

1628
01:24:42,205 --> 01:24:44,845
Gimme one second. I already put my notes away.

1629
01:24:50,305 --> 01:24:52,765
Do you find this meets the public interest? I

1630
01:24:52,765 --> 01:24:54,605
Do find it meets the public interest.

1631
01:24:55,365 --> 01:25:00,005
I don't see it as contrary as it's in keeping

1632
01:25:01,155 --> 01:25:03,845
with the established ne

1633
01:25:03,845 --> 01:25:05,565
neighborhood, for lack of a better term.

1634
01:25:06,035 --> 01:25:10,205
Okay. Mr. Dani, how do you sit on the public interest?

1635
01:25:12,925 --> 01:25:14,365
I don't see any controversy with

1636
01:25:15,505 --> 01:25:16,505
No conflicts.

1637
01:25:16,545 --> 01:25:18,685
No conflicts. Very good. Mr. Tripp,

1638
01:25:24,745 --> 01:25:28,445
As the witnesses said there, this is a

1639
01:25:29,915 --> 01:25:34,485
area that is fairly build up.

1640
01:25:35,745 --> 01:25:38,405
You know, it's one of those things that the addition

1641
01:25:38,405 --> 01:25:40,165
of one more house is not going to

1642
01:25:42,555 --> 01:25:43,805
have that big of impact.

1643
01:25:44,355 --> 01:25:48,865
Alright. Chair sees the public interest in this regard

1644
01:25:49,445 --> 01:25:54,025
is, is met as it grants use

1645
01:25:54,125 --> 01:25:57,145
of the property as the lot

1646
01:25:57,145 --> 01:26:00,145
of record would intend Mrs. Morin.

1647
01:26:00,985 --> 01:26:05,245
I agree. Where there's no new access is being provided.

1648
01:26:05,555 --> 01:26:06,085
Very good

1649
01:26:14,075 --> 01:26:15,255
Spirit of the ordinance.

1650
01:26:15,955 --> 01:26:20,255
Mr. Donlin, you feel this meets the spirit of the ordinance?

1651
01:26:21,695 --> 01:26:24,455
I do. As is an existing non-conforming lot.

1652
01:26:24,475 --> 01:26:27,095
And they're not asking for relief in any

1653
01:26:27,095 --> 01:26:29,775
dimensions or anything else. Just the road.

1654
01:26:30,565 --> 01:26:34,895
Very good, Mr.

1655
01:26:35,405 --> 01:26:36,405
Dani?

1656
01:26:36,935 --> 01:26:38,095
I agree with Donlin.

1657
01:26:41,425 --> 01:26:42,955
Okay. Mr. Trip,

1658
01:26:44,375 --> 01:26:47,735
As Mr.

1659
01:26:47,915 --> 01:26:49,535
Donlin said, this is the only

1660
01:26:51,615 --> 01:26:53,575
variance they're requesting, they're

1661
01:26:53,575 --> 01:26:54,535
otherwise compliant

1662
01:26:58,555 --> 01:26:59,775
to the town's ordinances.

1663
01:27:00,085 --> 01:27:01,415
Okay. This Mrs. Morin

1664
01:27:01,755 --> 01:27:04,655
And Chair, I agree with what has been stated already

1665
01:27:04,725 --> 01:27:06,255
that it is within the spirit.

1666
01:27:07,645 --> 01:27:07,935
Okay.

1667
01:27:12,985 --> 01:27:14,105
I I would concur.

1668
01:27:14,125 --> 01:27:15,665
The spirit of the ordinance is met

1669
01:27:15,725 --> 01:27:19,145
as the parcel is is dated.

1670
01:27:20,005 --> 01:27:24,865
Lot of record, although it is non-conforming just to

1671
01:27:25,605 --> 01:27:29,865
the later ordinance developments in in the community.

1672
01:27:33,375 --> 01:27:34,385
Substantial justice.

1673
01:27:43,315 --> 01:27:44,415
I'm gonna lead with that.

1674
01:27:44,635 --> 01:27:49,295
The substantial justice is met as the,

1675
01:27:50,035 --> 01:27:54,575
as the parcel can be developed as the intention

1676
01:27:54,725 --> 01:27:57,615
that it in the intention that it was

1677
01:27:59,205 --> 01:28:00,535
developed as a lot

1678
01:28:00,535 --> 01:28:04,625
of record. Mr. Donlin?

1679
01:28:05,185 --> 01:28:07,705
I agree. That's what my notes reflect as well.

1680
01:28:07,825 --> 01:28:08,825
A lot of record

1681
01:28:10,285 --> 01:28:11,265
Mr. Dani?

1682
01:28:11,865 --> 01:28:13,785
I agree also. I,

1683
01:28:14,525 --> 01:28:15,525
Mr.

1684
01:28:15,525 --> 01:28:15,895
Trip

1685
01:28:16,815 --> 01:28:17,815
What you said.

1686
01:28:18,255 --> 01:28:20,985
Okay. Do you want me to say lot

1687
01:28:20,985 --> 01:28:22,065
of record for you again?

1688
01:28:22,255 --> 01:28:24,065
That would be fine. Okay. Mrs. Warren?

1689
01:28:25,585 --> 01:28:26,985
I agree with what has been stated

1690
01:28:26,995 --> 01:28:29,105
where it is an existing lot of record.

1691
01:28:29,535 --> 01:28:29,825
Okay.

1692
01:28:34,895 --> 01:28:36,145
Substantial justice.

1693
01:28:40,405 --> 01:28:42,625
Did I just do the substantial justice number four?

1694
01:28:42,925 --> 01:28:45,945
I'm sorry, but I'm writing in the names

1695
01:28:47,245 --> 01:28:49,505
as we go of who's in attendance

1696
01:28:49,605 --> 01:28:51,945
and trying to keep the five criteria separate.

1697
01:28:53,155 --> 01:28:55,225
We're on number four. We're on number four.

1698
01:29:00,455 --> 01:29:00,745
What

1699
01:29:00,745 --> 01:29:01,745
Is number four?

1700
01:29:01,865 --> 01:29:03,445
The value of surrounding properties.

1701
01:29:03,955 --> 01:29:06,325
Okay. Thank you. Value of surrounding properties.

1702
01:29:06,375 --> 01:29:09,885
Thank you. Mr.

1703
01:29:12,065 --> 01:29:13,965
Donlin, do you find the the value

1704
01:29:13,965 --> 01:29:17,125
of surrounding properties will be affected?

1705
01:29:18,365 --> 01:29:21,205
I, my, I feel that the value

1706
01:29:21,205 --> 01:29:23,405
of the surrounding properties will not be diminished.

1707
01:29:24,475 --> 01:29:28,365
Okay. Generally

1708
01:29:29,725 --> 01:29:33,485
speaking, the new construction tends to add values

1709
01:29:33,485 --> 01:29:37,045
to surrounding properties as well as the cleanup

1710
01:29:37,105 --> 01:29:41,005
and whatever else you have to do to the, to the lot

1711
01:29:41,305 --> 01:29:44,525
to construct a home as well.

1712
01:29:44,855 --> 01:29:46,845
Tends to clean up some debris

1713
01:29:46,845 --> 01:29:48,165
and other things that kind

1714
01:29:48,165 --> 01:29:49,525
of pile up in the woods over time.

1715
01:29:50,115 --> 01:29:51,725
Okay. Mrs. Moore?

1716
01:29:52,255 --> 01:29:56,165
Jerry, I agree that the, with new construction, it tends

1717
01:29:56,465 --> 01:29:58,165
to increase value.

1718
01:29:58,795 --> 01:30:03,205
Okay. I would say that substantial justice is done

1719
01:30:03,205 --> 01:30:04,965
because the, or I'm sorry.

1720
01:30:04,965 --> 01:30:07,125
Is that where we're at? Value surrounding value

1721
01:30:07,125 --> 01:30:10,405
of surrounding properties is occurs

1722
01:30:10,405 --> 01:30:14,205
because the development of this lot will help address some

1723
01:30:14,205 --> 01:30:17,805
of the concerns that the Abutter had

1724
01:30:19,245 --> 01:30:24,005
relative to traffic and, and fire hazard and safety.

1725
01:30:24,075 --> 01:30:26,965
That the land will get, start to be cleaned up.

1726
01:30:26,965 --> 01:30:28,965
Whereas before it was isolated

1727
01:30:29,545 --> 01:30:33,165
and it was not so maintainable likely.

1728
01:30:33,405 --> 01:30:37,685
I also see that due to the testimony participants

1729
01:30:38,275 --> 01:30:42,445
occupying this area will help increase the maintenance

1730
01:30:42,625 --> 01:30:44,205
of the Class six road.

1731
01:30:44,345 --> 01:30:45,345
Mr. Trip.

1732
01:30:46,805 --> 01:30:49,725
I think one of the good things that comes out of this is

1733
01:30:50,635 --> 01:30:54,005
when you have one more person using the,

1734
01:30:55,265 --> 01:30:59,125
the limited access, there's a possibility that

1735
01:31:00,385 --> 01:31:03,805
people will get together and maybe improve the access.

1736
01:31:08,825 --> 01:31:10,645
Who did I That'd Be me,

1737
01:31:10,905 --> 01:31:11,905
Mr.

1738
01:31:11,905 --> 01:31:13,485
Dani. Okay, go ahead.

1739
01:31:14,725 --> 01:31:15,885
I agree with Mr. Trip.

1740
01:31:16,635 --> 01:31:19,445
More people that can have access can maybe help

1741
01:31:19,875 --> 01:31:21,165
improve that road as well.

1742
01:31:21,315 --> 01:31:23,205
Very good. It does, does not diminish the values.

1743
01:31:23,885 --> 01:31:26,805
I have all five people on record on that. Yes. Yes. Okay.

1744
01:31:26,805 --> 01:31:27,165
Thank you.

1745
01:31:33,125 --> 01:31:37,685
Hardship is demonstrated because Mr. Donlin,

1746
01:31:39,605 --> 01:31:42,605
Literal enforcement of the provision in this case.

1747
01:31:43,215 --> 01:31:46,005
Again, I I'm gonna go to the, to the law of record

1748
01:31:46,105 --> 01:31:47,565
or existing non-conforming.

1749
01:31:48,195 --> 01:31:52,235
There's no way, there's no,

1750
01:31:53,965 --> 01:31:56,195
there is no 200 feet to be had.

1751
01:31:56,265 --> 01:31:58,115
It's just what it is in this area.

1752
01:32:00,115 --> 01:32:02,645
Okay, Mr. Tripp.

1753
01:32:03,555 --> 01:32:07,735
Well that's, I would agree that

1754
01:32:10,255 --> 01:32:13,785
there's no way that you could get 200 feet line of sight

1755
01:32:13,785 --> 01:32:15,105
or front each.

1756
01:32:16,605 --> 01:32:20,065
So the only way it could be developed would be to be,

1757
01:32:20,365 --> 01:32:21,665
to give a variance to the,

1758
01:32:23,135 --> 01:32:25,745
this particular ordinance code

1759
01:32:26,685 --> 01:32:27,145
Mrs. Mor

1760
01:32:28,035 --> 01:32:29,035
Chair.

1761
01:32:29,035 --> 01:32:31,105
I agree. Where it would essentially be

1762
01:32:31,105 --> 01:32:32,305
landlocked without it.

1763
01:32:33,975 --> 01:32:36,225
Very good, Mr. Dani.

1764
01:32:36,805 --> 01:32:39,665
And I would say because it's an existing lot that's,

1765
01:32:39,815 --> 01:32:40,825
it's nonconforming,

1766
01:32:41,005 --> 01:32:43,505
but that's its hardship

1767
01:32:44,805 --> 01:32:46,545
to be able to be developed.

1768
01:32:47,975 --> 01:32:51,305
Yeah. I I So I find that unnecessary hardship

1769
01:32:51,845 --> 01:32:56,145
com applies here as the parcel is

1770
01:32:56,685 --> 01:33:01,585
so isolated at a time when, when

1771
01:33:02,735 --> 01:33:06,425
development is, is necessary in our, our region

1772
01:33:07,375 --> 01:33:09,305
that this substantiates that

1773
01:33:09,485 --> 01:33:13,105
and allows proper use of the proper of the parcel.

1774
01:33:14,945 --> 01:33:18,705
I think that concludes all five of the five criteria

1775
01:33:18,965 --> 01:33:21,945
for the finding of fact. All Do you

1776
01:33:21,945 --> 01:33:24,385
Need to say the proposed use as a reasonable one?

1777
01:33:25,085 --> 01:33:26,225
I'm sorry, again, Do you need to add

1778
01:33:26,225 --> 01:33:28,225
that the proposed use is a reasonable one?

1779
01:33:28,325 --> 01:33:30,945
No, I think we addressed the, the five adequately.

1780
01:33:31,475 --> 01:33:36,345
Those are a lot of times either or. So in this regard.

1781
01:33:37,125 --> 01:33:38,625
Oh, you have my motion, right?

1782
01:33:39,595 --> 01:33:44,005
It's right here. Yep, that's fine. Okay.

1783
01:33:44,005 --> 01:33:45,965
So the motion's been read all in favor

1784
01:33:45,985 --> 01:33:47,125
of moving that for a vote.

1785
01:33:47,265 --> 01:33:52,125
Say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Mr. Dani?

1786
01:33:52,905 --> 01:33:57,525
Yes. Mr. Donlin? Yes. Mr. Trip? Yes.

1787
01:33:57,945 --> 01:33:59,005
Mrs. Morin? Yes.

1788
01:33:59,225 --> 01:34:01,245
And the chair will make that unanimous

1789
01:34:01,305 --> 01:34:02,645
by a vote of five to zero.

1790
01:34:02,905 --> 01:34:06,765
So, congratulations. Your application has been approved.

1791
01:34:06,995 --> 01:34:10,365
Anybody agree by this has 30 days to ask this board

1792
01:34:10,385 --> 01:34:11,405
for reconsideration?

1793
01:34:11,415 --> 01:34:13,885
After that would be to superior court. Okay.

1794
01:34:14,675 --> 01:34:15,445
Have a good evening

1795
01:34:29,385 --> 01:34:30,685
and welcome Mr.

1796
01:34:31,835 --> 01:34:33,845
Corbett. Hello. Good evening.

1797
01:34:34,585 --> 01:34:36,685
You guys we're all speaking very nice in your microphones.

1798
01:34:37,465 --> 01:34:38,645
Fun to be on that side of things, sir.

1799
01:34:40,785 --> 01:34:42,005
Oh, you could hear us very

1800
01:34:42,005 --> 01:34:43,005
Well.

1801
01:34:43,005 --> 01:34:44,165
I think I know where the weak link on the board is.

1802
01:34:45,955 --> 01:34:48,765
Well, you know, if you, if you talk like this,

1803
01:34:49,195 --> 01:34:51,485
then you're not speaking into the microphone. What about

1804
01:34:51,485 --> 01:34:52,485
Back here?

1805
01:34:52,485 --> 01:34:52,765
This doesn't,

1806
01:34:56,835 --> 01:34:58,205
Well, it's a good thing when you're cute.

1807
01:34:58,205 --> 01:34:59,485
Otherwise you'd get rid of it.

1808
01:35:03,695 --> 01:35:07,285
Speak for yourself. I didn't say I was cute.

1809
01:35:10,945 --> 01:35:12,965
All right. Next up on the agenda.

1810
01:35:13,065 --> 01:35:16,245
It is case number 26 dash 1 0 7.

1811
01:35:19,895 --> 01:35:22,245
Folks, you can sit there for right now.

1812
01:35:22,705 --> 01:35:23,885
And just to let you know

1813
01:35:23,885 --> 01:35:26,525
where we're at in our process per board policies,

1814
01:35:26,785 --> 01:35:28,445
we are going to finish up

1815
01:35:29,235 --> 01:35:33,445
Abutter rebuttal.

1816
01:35:35,305 --> 01:35:38,405
We had taken names of people who wanted to speak to this

1817
01:35:38,465 --> 01:35:40,085
before we adjourned the last meeting.

1818
01:35:40,185 --> 01:35:43,445
So we're gonna go there and then you folks will have an

1819
01:35:43,445 --> 01:35:47,925
opportunity to rebut testimony from the last prior meeting

1820
01:35:48,265 --> 01:35:49,525
as well as this one here.

1821
01:35:49,755 --> 01:35:53,725
Okay? That being the case, Mr.

1822
01:35:54,065 --> 01:35:58,925
Cardin, I think, as I recall, was up here we had to, had

1823
01:35:58,925 --> 01:36:00,965
to suspend testimony.

1824
01:36:01,105 --> 01:36:02,725
So at that point, at this point,

1825
01:36:02,905 --> 01:36:05,925
the testimony is open now for hearing. And

1826
01:36:05,985 --> 01:36:08,125
Do you wanna note also for the record that Mr.

1827
01:36:08,425 --> 01:36:11,085
Donlan will stay on and I will not be on

1828
01:36:11,125 --> 01:36:12,125
It?

1829
01:36:12,125 --> 01:36:14,365
That would be fine. Mr. Donlin, please remain for this case.

1830
01:36:15,465 --> 01:36:15,925
Yes, sir.

1831
01:36:32,425 --> 01:36:34,485
And good evening. Good evening.

1832
01:36:34,905 --> 01:36:36,765
Tom Cardin to Cunningham Drive.

1833
01:36:39,345 --> 01:36:41,485
You probably know I've been following this for

1834
01:36:42,805 --> 01:36:43,925
a little over a year now.

1835
01:36:44,825 --> 01:36:48,685
You know, bird Enterprises asking for a 50

1836
01:36:49,235 --> 01:36:51,045
foot square pylon sign.

1837
01:36:52,785 --> 01:36:56,845
My assumption was that the sign that that was taken down

1838
01:36:57,875 --> 01:37:00,405
back in April, my assumption was that was gonna be the one

1839
01:37:00,405 --> 01:37:02,765
that was gonna be, you know, put back up.

1840
01:37:03,745 --> 01:37:04,885
And at the last,

1841
01:37:05,485 --> 01:37:07,965
I think it was the last meeting in May, I think Mr.

1842
01:37:08,545 --> 01:37:11,005
You know, they were discussing the, the size of it.

1843
01:37:11,085 --> 01:37:12,325
I think Mr. Corbett came up

1844
01:37:12,325 --> 01:37:15,205
with 42 square feet for the sign. Which,

1845
01:37:15,545 --> 01:37:16,545
And I'm sorry to interrupt.

1846
01:37:16,605 --> 01:37:17,605
I was gonna state this

1847
01:37:17,605 --> 01:37:19,245
after I was incorrect on my measurements.

1848
01:37:19,345 --> 01:37:21,485
What's that? I was incorrect on my measurements last time.

1849
01:37:21,625 --> 01:37:23,685
You're incorrect. So I was going to bring that up.

1850
01:37:24,165 --> 01:37:25,885
So thank you for leading. Sorry to interrupt.

1851
01:37:26,345 --> 01:37:28,485
It is a 60 by one 20.

1852
01:37:29,025 --> 01:37:30,165
Oh, it was 65.

1853
01:37:30,505 --> 01:37:33,565
No, 60 feet, or sorry, 60 inches by 120 inches.

1854
01:37:33,625 --> 01:37:36,045
So I then have to do the math, but I was off on my, all

1855
01:37:36,045 --> 01:37:37,765
Right, so that's 50 square foot?

1856
01:37:39,025 --> 01:37:42,925
Yes. Okay. And just to be clear, that's also two signs.

1857
01:37:43,505 --> 01:37:44,965
One for each enterprise.

1858
01:37:45,515 --> 01:37:46,565
Okay. Gotcha. Okay. Okay.

1859
01:37:46,565 --> 01:37:49,405
So they're essentially 60 by 60 size signs.

1860
01:37:49,405 --> 01:37:52,765
Okay. All right. Well that, that clarifies, that gets rid

1861
01:37:52,765 --> 01:37:54,485
of my, my first paragraph here.

1862
01:37:54,865 --> 01:37:56,365
So I do apologize to that confusion

1863
01:37:56,365 --> 01:37:57,565
by No, that, that's quite all right.

1864
01:37:57,605 --> 01:37:59,245
I just wanna make sure the information was correct.

1865
01:37:59,745 --> 01:38:03,365
So I was kind of unsure as to exactly what a pylon sign was.

1866
01:38:03,365 --> 01:38:08,005
So I did look up a couple of definitions of a pylon sign.

1867
01:38:08,105 --> 01:38:10,205
You know, as a pylon sign is a tall,

1868
01:38:10,205 --> 01:38:13,645
freestanding outdoor sign supported by one or more steel

1869
01:38:13,705 --> 01:38:16,845
or aluminum poles, typically exceeding eight feet in height

1870
01:38:17,305 --> 01:38:20,725
and offer high visibility from a distance commonly used

1871
01:38:20,725 --> 01:38:24,885
for shopping centers, gas station hotels, near highways

1872
01:38:24,885 --> 01:38:28,045
that are often internally illuminated.

1873
01:38:28,545 --> 01:38:30,725
The other one was a pylon of signs of freestanding

1874
01:38:31,565 --> 01:38:33,165
advertising structure supported by one

1875
01:38:33,165 --> 01:38:34,325
or two vertical signs.

1876
01:38:34,345 --> 01:38:36,885
The sign is prominently from the ground,

1877
01:38:37,095 --> 01:38:39,885
often visible from across multiple lanes or intersections.

1878
01:38:39,885 --> 01:38:43,365
This makes them particularly valuable for businesses located

1879
01:38:44,155 --> 01:38:46,725
near high speed roads or large parking areas.

1880
01:38:46,825 --> 01:38:50,165
And you know, to me the, you know, the pylon sign is really

1881
01:38:51,385 --> 01:38:52,765
for a commercial area and,

1882
01:38:52,765 --> 01:38:57,245
and definitely not for a, not for a neighborhood.

1883
01:38:58,425 --> 01:39:00,445
And I'm not gonna read one section,

1884
01:39:00,865 --> 01:39:03,765
I'm not gonna read section 1 65 1 0 1 0.1

1885
01:39:04,005 --> 01:39:05,485
'cause I know we've all read it.

1886
01:39:05,485 --> 01:39:07,205
But I just do wanna point out two things.

1887
01:39:07,345 --> 01:39:09,445
And one of us says, you know,

1888
01:39:09,445 --> 01:39:12,965
the sign does not exceed 24 square feet in area

1889
01:39:13,785 --> 01:39:16,565
and one unlit sign.

1890
01:39:16,825 --> 01:39:20,805
So, you know, clearly the, the ordinance is, wants

1891
01:39:20,805 --> 01:39:22,325
to limit the size and the scope

1892
01:39:22,945 --> 01:39:24,805
of signs in a, in a neighborhood.

1893
01:39:26,085 --> 01:39:28,645
I think the sign is contrary to the spirit of the ordinance

1894
01:39:28,665 --> 01:39:29,685
and is not consistent

1895
01:39:29,715 --> 01:39:31,765
with the character of the neighborhood.

1896
01:39:33,065 --> 01:39:36,125
You know, I know Mr. Yco had, had stated in a,

1897
01:39:36,185 --> 01:39:39,165
in a previous meeting that, that it was a hardship

1898
01:39:39,165 --> 01:39:40,405
for him not having the sign.

1899
01:39:41,025 --> 01:39:42,725
And I, I thought about that last week

1900
01:39:42,725 --> 01:39:46,805
and I was like, if I'm, if I'm looking for a facility for,

1901
01:39:48,265 --> 01:39:50,165
you know, for baseball

1902
01:39:50,425 --> 01:39:53,205
and I have a kid that I want him to him

1903
01:39:53,205 --> 01:39:57,485
or her to access their, their

1904
01:39:58,085 --> 01:40:01,045
baseball skills, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go online

1905
01:40:01,045 --> 01:40:04,125
and I'm gonna look for, for a, a facility that does that.

1906
01:40:04,185 --> 01:40:05,765
So I did like, so I googled

1907
01:40:06,925 --> 01:40:09,125
baseball training facilities in Southern New Hampshire.

1908
01:40:09,125 --> 01:40:11,325
And there was, there was, there was a few of 'em.

1909
01:40:11,325 --> 01:40:14,685
There was the one in Exeter,

1910
01:40:14,685 --> 01:40:18,685
there was a couple in Manchester, one in Epping, man,

1911
01:40:19,185 --> 01:40:21,205
Nashua, and of course in dairy.

1912
01:40:21,865 --> 01:40:26,085
So I googled four of them and they all had pretty good ones.

1913
01:40:26,085 --> 01:40:28,205
They all had had pretty good websites.

1914
01:40:28,225 --> 01:40:32,485
But I, I looked at, I looked at, at, at

1915
01:40:33,325 --> 01:40:35,045
Northeast Elite Athletics

1916
01:40:35,505 --> 01:40:38,805
and it stated that it empowers athletes of all ages

1917
01:40:38,805 --> 01:40:41,845
to reach their highest potential in a supportive environment

1918
01:40:42,005 --> 01:40:44,245
where athletes can develop skills, build character,

1919
01:40:44,585 --> 01:40:45,765
and grow with confidence.

1920
01:40:46,065 --> 01:40:48,845
If I'm looking for a baseball facility for my kid to go to,

1921
01:40:48,845 --> 01:40:51,405
that's gonna be the one that I'm gonna look at first.

1922
01:40:51,525 --> 01:40:52,845
I mean, they had an excellent website.

1923
01:40:53,085 --> 01:40:54,685
I have to compliment 'em for that.

1924
01:40:55,785 --> 01:40:57,565
But my point about all this is,

1925
01:40:58,065 --> 01:40:59,445
is it's not gonna be the sign

1926
01:40:59,445 --> 01:41:00,885
that really is gonna be the draw.

1927
01:41:00,945 --> 01:41:02,725
You know, you're gonna look at the, you,

1928
01:41:02,725 --> 01:41:05,205
you're gonna look at, you're gonna look at the website.

1929
01:41:05,205 --> 01:41:06,765
Other people, you're gonna speak to people

1930
01:41:06,765 --> 01:41:10,725
that might go there and, you know, the website is the draw.

1931
01:41:11,445 --> 01:41:12,845
Google map will get 'em there.

1932
01:41:13,145 --> 01:41:17,805
And a sign certainly is gonna be what they're going to look

1933
01:41:17,805 --> 01:41:19,565
for when they, when they finally get there.

1934
01:41:20,065 --> 01:41:21,565
So do they deserve a sign?

1935
01:41:21,585 --> 01:41:23,805
You know, without question, I think everybody realizes they

1936
01:41:23,805 --> 01:41:26,645
need a sign, you know, and,

1937
01:41:26,745 --> 01:41:27,765
and in all honesty,

1938
01:41:27,915 --> 01:41:30,925
Byrd Enterprise is not a bad fit for the area.

1939
01:41:31,285 --> 01:41:32,405
I mean, I think it could be,

1940
01:41:33,365 --> 01:41:34,645
I think it could be a lot worse.

1941
01:41:34,785 --> 01:41:38,365
And, you know, I hope this sign mess gets straightened out

1942
01:41:38,365 --> 01:41:41,245
for them sooner or later.

1943
01:41:41,345 --> 01:41:43,205
And, you know, I, I do wish 'em the best,

1944
01:41:43,265 --> 01:41:46,365
but I, I think the 50 foot square foot

1945
01:41:47,045 --> 01:41:49,005
pylon sign is really not in

1946
01:41:49,005 --> 01:41:50,765
best interest of the neighborhood. Thank you.

1947
01:41:51,395 --> 01:41:53,245
Hang on a second. Anybody have any questions?

1948
01:41:55,705 --> 01:41:57,285
If, if the board approves this

1949
01:41:57,915 --> 01:41:58,915
Yeah.

1950
01:41:58,915 --> 01:42:00,565
How, how do you become aggrieved by it?

1951
01:42:02,805 --> 01:42:04,405
I can say probably not.

1952
01:42:05,155 --> 01:42:07,365
Okay. Well we accept the testimony

1953
01:42:07,385 --> 01:42:10,245
and understand we try to find direct abutters,

1954
01:42:10,245 --> 01:42:11,805
which is usually our cue.

1955
01:42:11,905 --> 01:42:14,765
But I, this question gets looked over

1956
01:42:15,025 --> 01:42:18,045
and being somebody that probably travels down

1957
01:42:18,045 --> 01:42:21,045
that road frequently all the time, you know, I,

1958
01:42:21,285 --> 01:42:24,365
I feel gives you a window to be able express your feelings

1959
01:42:24,465 --> 01:42:25,645
and thank you.

1960
01:42:25,855 --> 01:42:27,205
Think they're articulated well.

1961
01:42:27,465 --> 01:42:29,485
No, I appreciate that. I know I'm not a direct letter.

1962
01:42:29,485 --> 01:42:32,685
Alright. Very good. Thank you. Yep. Anybody else?

1963
01:42:36,115 --> 01:42:37,765
This is just opposition right now.

1964
01:42:51,625 --> 01:42:52,625
Good evening.

1965
01:42:53,425 --> 01:42:54,955
Good evening Will Davison one.

1966
01:42:54,955 --> 01:42:58,835
Wishing Hu Lane Director butter speaking in opposition

1967
01:42:58,835 --> 01:42:59,995
of the proposed sign.

1968
01:43:00,925 --> 01:43:03,075
Wanna be clear? I'm a hundred percent opposed

1969
01:43:03,095 --> 01:43:05,195
to this sign the size of the sign.

1970
01:43:08,055 --> 01:43:09,555
As you know, we had an opportunity

1971
01:43:09,555 --> 01:43:11,995
to see this sign in place without the reader board

1972
01:43:12,015 --> 01:43:15,955
for several months without the reader board on

1973
01:43:19,775 --> 01:43:21,635
it did not and still does not fit

1974
01:43:21,835 --> 01:43:22,995
the character of the neighborhood.

1975
01:43:23,175 --> 01:43:25,715
The sign is visible for more than half of the year

1976
01:43:26,255 --> 01:43:28,835
in my house in my yard.

1977
01:43:30,795 --> 01:43:34,235
I could see it clearly from many windows

1978
01:43:34,335 --> 01:43:36,475
and in many places within my yard.

1979
01:43:38,355 --> 01:43:41,155
And that's between November one and mid-May.

1980
01:43:43,035 --> 01:43:45,315
Allowing this oversized sign is

1981
01:43:45,895 --> 01:43:49,595
of this scale simply does not make sense in this area.

1982
01:43:50,115 --> 01:43:53,325
I also agree to testimony from several neighbors

1983
01:43:54,875 --> 01:43:56,245
last time that we were here

1984
01:43:56,555 --> 01:43:59,085
that this song sign just does not belong here.

1985
01:44:00,745 --> 01:44:04,485
Others have documented opposition, including Andrew

1986
01:44:04,485 --> 01:44:07,205
and Jessica than nearby.

1987
01:44:07,525 --> 01:44:10,845
Business signs are far more reasonable in size

1988
01:44:11,945 --> 01:44:15,725
and these businesses have been in successful within our

1989
01:44:15,725 --> 01:44:17,365
area for decades.

1990
01:44:18,505 --> 01:44:21,085
So the, the size of the sign that they have

1991
01:44:22,305 --> 01:44:24,405
is far more reasonable.

1992
01:44:24,515 --> 01:44:27,405
That was documented through Andrew's

1993
01:44:29,725 --> 01:44:31,165
photos that he put in place.

1994
01:44:33,545 --> 01:44:36,325
As a reminder, my realtor had told, told us

1995
01:44:36,325 --> 01:44:39,685
that our property value was ta already taken hit just simply

1996
01:44:39,685 --> 01:44:40,965
because the business is there.

1997
01:44:43,115 --> 01:44:44,325
They also provided a letter

1998
01:44:44,325 --> 01:44:47,805
that the oversight sign would add additional

1999
01:44:48,715 --> 01:44:50,165
devaluation of my property.

2000
01:44:51,465 --> 01:44:54,645
We submitted that documentation within

2001
01:44:54,985 --> 01:44:56,245
the original proposal.

2002
01:44:56,485 --> 01:44:59,005
I have copies of it here to resubmit tonight.

2003
01:44:59,585 --> 01:45:01,485
So you have that on record.

2004
01:45:04,725 --> 01:45:09,005
I understand that this proposal may ultimately be approved.

2005
01:45:10,065 --> 01:45:12,725
If that happens, then the board owes it to the entire town.

2006
01:45:12,915 --> 01:45:14,085
That to state clearly

2007
01:45:14,225 --> 01:45:16,125
and specifically what is being approved

2008
01:45:16,785 --> 01:45:20,245
and how that approval satisfies the five requirements.

2009
01:45:23,565 --> 01:45:27,925
I also think that the, the board owes to the town

2010
01:45:28,065 --> 01:45:32,325
and the neighbors clear interpretation

2011
01:45:32,325 --> 01:45:37,165
of what's being approved left to being vague,

2012
01:45:37,715 --> 01:45:39,285
already caused many problems.

2013
01:45:39,285 --> 01:45:41,565
Right? So this last time around very vague of

2014
01:45:41,805 --> 01:45:45,205
what was approved, very prob problematic to everybody.

2015
01:45:45,305 --> 01:45:49,685
So I think, you know, we really need

2016
01:45:49,685 --> 01:45:53,445
to have clear definition of exactly the size of the sign.

2017
01:45:54,995 --> 01:45:57,325
Whether the signs should be backlit, the maximum,

2018
01:45:57,755 --> 01:45:59,325
maximum brightness of the signs.

2019
01:46:02,175 --> 01:46:04,165
Who's measuring the brightness of these signs

2020
01:46:05,155 --> 01:46:06,205
when they get measured?

2021
01:46:06,345 --> 01:46:09,565
How often, because we've heard testimony

2022
01:46:09,565 --> 01:46:11,285
that there's the ability to turn it up

2023
01:46:11,285 --> 01:46:14,405
and down now so that that could be an issue.

2024
01:46:17,515 --> 01:46:21,485
That, and then the hours, these signs will be illuminated.

2025
01:46:22,855 --> 01:46:25,285
These details should not be left open

2026
01:46:25,425 --> 01:46:27,605
to interpretation or manipulation.

2027
01:46:30,355 --> 01:46:32,605
This, this concern also applies

2028
01:46:32,605 --> 01:46:35,005
to the two already very large signs on the building,

2029
01:46:35,015 --> 01:46:37,565
which I find very intrusive from my house.

2030
01:46:37,755 --> 01:46:39,885
Very, you know, they're very large.

2031
01:46:40,045 --> 01:46:43,485
I have pictures that I can provide from my yard.

2032
01:46:45,245 --> 01:46:47,885
I still don't know exactly what was approved the first time

2033
01:46:47,905 --> 01:46:49,405
for those signs on the building,

2034
01:46:49,595 --> 01:46:51,325
whether they should have been back lit,

2035
01:46:52,265 --> 01:46:53,485
how large they should have been.

2036
01:46:55,445 --> 01:46:57,965
I don't know if any of us know what was actually approved.

2037
01:47:01,945 --> 01:47:06,925
Having a clear definition of is very paramount to

2038
01:47:07,715 --> 01:47:11,045
make us all aware of what should be, you know,

2039
01:47:11,195 --> 01:47:13,325
what we're being approved tonight.

2040
01:47:19,105 --> 01:47:21,005
So I'm a little lost in my words here.

2041
01:47:21,065 --> 01:47:22,765
So, for the reasons I asked the board

2042
01:47:22,765 --> 01:47:26,725
to deny this request tonight, if the board chooses

2043
01:47:26,725 --> 01:47:27,845
to approve it, then I ask

2044
01:47:28,675 --> 01:47:31,725
that the approval be narrowly written, fully defined,

2045
01:47:31,745 --> 01:47:34,645
and enforceable in clear terms so that residents

2046
01:47:34,665 --> 01:47:37,805
and applicants and the town all understand

2047
01:47:37,805 --> 01:47:39,085
exactly what is permitted.

2048
01:47:42,265 --> 01:47:47,045
Lastly, I just want to say that the public

2049
01:47:47,655 --> 01:47:51,725
input matters when abuts come forward.

2050
01:47:51,725 --> 01:47:55,325
They deserve the board's full attention and respect.

2051
01:47:56,845 --> 01:47:58,325
I hope the concerns raised

2052
01:47:58,385 --> 01:47:59,925
by the residents are taken seriously

2053
01:47:59,945 --> 01:48:01,165
and reflected in the care.

2054
01:48:01,165 --> 01:48:04,005
Careful, transparent decisions you folks make tonight.

2055
01:48:09,155 --> 01:48:11,175
Wasn't very happy about the last meeting

2056
01:48:11,275 --> 01:48:13,815
and some actions that I had seen

2057
01:48:16,045 --> 01:48:20,855
with the abutters when they came to, to sit here and speak.

2058
01:48:20,855 --> 01:48:25,775
It felt as though it didn't even feel I saw people,

2059
01:48:26,595 --> 01:48:30,455
the, your board members on their cell phone on iPads,

2060
01:48:30,905 --> 01:48:33,935
heads down doodling when the Abutter spoke.

2061
01:48:35,705 --> 01:48:38,725
And it was a different story when the applicant

2062
01:48:38,915 --> 01:48:40,285
applicant came and spoke.

2063
01:48:42,665 --> 01:48:44,405
You're referring to the May 7th,

2064
01:48:45,065 --> 01:48:45,925
The last meeting. Yep.

2065
01:48:46,525 --> 01:48:49,045
I, I think one thing you might look at is that,

2066
01:48:49,305 --> 01:48:50,565
and I think this gets,

2067
01:48:50,925 --> 01:48:52,325
I I don't wanna take you off your points

2068
01:48:52,565 --> 01:48:53,805
'cause I want to address 'em all,

2069
01:48:53,945 --> 01:48:57,365
but there are calculations going on as,

2070
01:48:57,625 --> 01:49:01,765
as there's testimony given it's even now I'm writing every,

2071
01:49:01,985 --> 01:49:03,765
all your points and I want to address 'em.

2072
01:49:04,385 --> 01:49:08,605
But it's writing or working on the details of it. Okay.

2073
01:49:08,865 --> 01:49:11,725
No one's watching the Red Sox. Okay. For two reasons.

2074
01:49:12,265 --> 01:49:13,365
One, 'cause they're here because

2075
01:49:13,435 --> 01:49:14,885
they're not very good this year.

2076
01:49:15,475 --> 01:49:18,525
Totally agree with that. Rough year. Rough year.

2077
01:49:21,445 --> 01:49:23,625
Did you con, did you, that concludes

2078
01:49:23,625 --> 01:49:25,265
what I wanted to kind of say.

2079
01:49:25,335 --> 01:49:26,335
Alright.

2080
01:49:27,165 --> 01:49:29,265
How many copies of The letter do you have? I have

2081
01:49:29,285 --> 01:49:30,285
Six.

2082
01:49:30,575 --> 01:49:32,025
There's gonna be, so is this the same

2083
01:49:32,025 --> 01:49:33,065
letter that from last year?

2084
01:49:33,215 --> 01:49:35,425
Okay. That's in the file and don't, okay. But I

2085
01:49:35,425 --> 01:49:38,305
Thought that we couldn't bring stuff from that to this.

2086
01:49:38,455 --> 01:49:39,265
I'll make a motion because we

2087
01:49:39,265 --> 01:49:40,265
couldn't talk about that last meeting

2088
01:49:40,645 --> 01:49:41,645
In this meeting.

2089
01:49:41,645 --> 01:49:43,465
That's, it's, it's still in the file as part

2090
01:49:43,465 --> 01:49:45,065
of the testimony, but we can accept it. Yeah, I'll

2091
01:49:45,065 --> 01:49:46,065
Make a motion to accept it.

2092
01:49:46,065 --> 01:49:47,965
Okay. We can it over? Yeah. I got a second.

2093
01:49:49,865 --> 01:49:52,285
Jim, can you second that second my motion

2094
01:49:52,425 --> 01:49:53,485
to, to accept the document.

2095
01:49:55,305 --> 01:49:56,305
Second. Thank you.

2096
01:49:58,545 --> 01:50:01,325
My name's Brenda Davison. I live at one wishing well.

2097
01:50:01,325 --> 01:50:04,325
Lane again. Brenda Davison.

2098
01:50:04,925 --> 01:50:06,605
I live at one wishing well. Lane,

2099
01:50:07,955 --> 01:50:09,235
I still can't understand you.

2100
01:50:09,235 --> 01:50:11,275
David Davidson at one wishing well. Lane. Thank you.

2101
01:50:11,275 --> 01:50:14,435
Talking, wishing, Wishing well. Oh, thank you

2102
01:50:15,965 --> 01:50:16,965
Again.

2103
01:50:16,965 --> 01:50:19,115
I'm against it. I've been against it since the beginning.

2104
01:50:19,335 --> 01:50:21,795
The whole sign, not just the message board.

2105
01:50:24,575 --> 01:50:28,395
And I'm really having trouble trying to figure out

2106
01:50:28,945 --> 01:50:30,675
when I read these five criteria,

2107
01:50:33,295 --> 01:50:35,115
how he's meeting those.

2108
01:50:36,635 --> 01:50:39,915
IJI just, I spent a lot of time today like reading 'em

2109
01:50:39,915 --> 01:50:42,555
and I'm not sure you know him saying

2110
01:50:42,705 --> 01:50:45,515
that he's losing business, he's not gonna get

2111
01:50:45,515 --> 01:50:46,635
as many people in there.

2112
01:50:47,065 --> 01:50:49,035
That has nothing to do with the variance,

2113
01:50:51,145 --> 01:50:53,595
financial gain, any of that.

2114
01:50:54,025 --> 01:50:55,035
It's not a hardship.

2115
01:50:56,935 --> 01:50:59,115
So I don't think that meets the criteria.

2116
01:51:02,535 --> 01:51:04,475
It should be a land-based hardship.

2117
01:51:06,175 --> 01:51:09,475
He has room to put a sign. He doesn't need a big, huge sign.

2118
01:51:12,175 --> 01:51:13,175
So

2119
01:51:13,855 --> 01:51:15,915
Can I, can I get you to pause there

2120
01:51:15,915 --> 01:51:17,755
and I don't want to take you off your points.

2121
01:51:18,345 --> 01:51:21,675
Your husband will Right. Made some points.

2122
01:51:22,125 --> 01:51:24,555
Let's work through those and then we'll come back around.

2123
01:51:24,705 --> 01:51:28,235
Okay. 'cause I think some of what I'm hearing on your,

2124
01:51:28,585 --> 01:51:31,435
from your point of view, you know, we'll come back

2125
01:51:32,015 --> 01:51:35,395
to the board's deliberation on those points.

2126
01:51:37,035 --> 01:51:40,295
But I'm also hearing some things that you're starting to say

2127
01:51:40,295 --> 01:51:44,695
that may get cleared up as I address your husband's issues.

2128
01:51:44,695 --> 01:51:47,895
Okay? Okay. The,

2129
01:51:49,395 --> 01:51:53,535
the view of the sign and from November to May, is that

2130
01:51:53,535 --> 01:51:55,575
because it was lighted or was that

2131
01:51:55,575 --> 01:51:58,415
because of Its, its existence.

2132
01:51:58,925 --> 01:52:02,495
It's huge size. Okay. And and

2133
01:52:02,495 --> 01:52:04,935
There's no leaves on the trees that time either.

2134
01:52:05,325 --> 01:52:09,055
Yeah. So you're referencing the, just the size overall

2135
01:52:09,115 --> 01:52:11,335
as the biggest issue for you on that, in

2136
01:52:11,335 --> 01:52:13,535
that timeframe that you see it.

2137
01:52:14,955 --> 01:52:17,095
So I, let me address it two ways.

2138
01:52:17,355 --> 01:52:21,735
One, the current size is way too large for where we live

2139
01:52:21,755 --> 01:52:25,575
and it doesn't meet the character

2140
01:52:25,715 --> 01:52:27,735
of where that sits.

2141
01:52:28,175 --> 01:52:29,615
Secondly, the brightness

2142
01:52:29,615 --> 01:52:32,615
of the signs when they were lit were ridiculous.

2143
01:52:33,375 --> 01:52:37,015
I understand. So the brightness part is why I, I asked

2144
01:52:37,035 --> 01:52:40,175
for clarity on the November to may issue, which is,

2145
01:52:40,175 --> 01:52:41,575
which is referencing the lighting.

2146
01:52:42,395 --> 01:52:45,565
So if there's no lighting on that size on that sign

2147
01:52:45,665 --> 01:52:48,805
as it sits still on it, this is still an issue for you.

2148
01:52:49,025 --> 01:52:51,405
Yep. The size is still not acceptable.

2149
01:52:51,745 --> 01:52:53,845
Height and, and because of height

2150
01:52:53,985 --> 01:52:56,725
or what is the girth? Girth. Okay.

2151
01:52:56,905 --> 01:53:01,005
You still see it from our house. What's girth round?

2152
01:53:01,025 --> 01:53:03,485
The large, the largeness of it. The total

2153
01:53:03,605 --> 01:53:04,205
Volume. Total

2154
01:53:04,425 --> 01:53:05,425
Volume of it.

2155
01:53:05,425 --> 01:53:09,645
Right. So it's 65 square, square feet I think,

2156
01:53:09,915 --> 01:53:11,405
what was the new math?

2157
01:53:11,655 --> 01:53:15,285
62 6 2 5 by, sorry.

2158
01:53:15,385 --> 01:53:16,925
Two 60 inch by 60 inch signs.

2159
01:53:16,925 --> 01:53:19,565
So it comes out to about 2 25 square inch.

2160
01:53:19,585 --> 01:53:20,845
So 50 square feet total.

2161
01:53:22,805 --> 01:53:25,565
I, my drawing says 1 0 2 by 60,

2162
01:53:26,175 --> 01:53:27,965
which is 42 in change.

2163
01:53:28,475 --> 01:53:30,085
Yeah. Then it was, so

2164
01:53:30,085 --> 01:53:31,525
We'll have to get clarification on that after.

2165
01:53:31,555 --> 01:53:33,765
Yeah. 'cause then we got, Carrie pointed me to the new one

2166
01:53:33,945 --> 01:53:35,005
to be looking at last week.

2167
01:53:35,165 --> 01:53:36,525
'cause that was where I got caught up as well.

2168
01:53:36,815 --> 01:53:39,925
Again, it, this is where I'm looking for clarity is

2169
01:53:39,955 --> 01:53:41,045
what are we approving?

2170
01:53:41,845 --> 01:53:43,645
I, I'm presuming Right, I can't hear you.

2171
01:53:44,325 --> 01:53:48,005
I am, if you could lean to the mic a little bit more for

2172
01:53:48,005 --> 01:53:49,005
Mr.

2173
01:53:49,005 --> 01:53:52,685
Trip. How about now? If I can't hear you, I'll tell you.

2174
01:53:52,895 --> 01:53:53,895
Thank you.

2175
01:53:55,235 --> 01:53:57,445
Rude. So for right now, we'll just go

2176
01:53:57,445 --> 01:54:00,965
that it's 2 25 foot square,

2177
01:54:01,425 --> 01:54:03,085
25 square foot signs.

2178
01:54:03,465 --> 01:54:06,485
Yep. Okay. If we hear different,

2179
01:54:06,485 --> 01:54:08,125
we hear different from the,

2180
01:54:08,325 --> 01:54:10,725
when the abutter has their second rebuttal.

2181
01:54:10,835 --> 01:54:15,085
Okay. The other signs on the building,

2182
01:54:16,955 --> 01:54:19,005
that ship has sailed.

2183
01:54:19,625 --> 01:54:20,765
But are you indicating

2184
01:54:20,765 --> 01:54:23,125
that those are lit on the building as well?

2185
01:54:24,145 --> 01:54:28,365
Not as of today, but I would assume

2186
01:54:29,155 --> 01:54:32,485
that once approved probably we'll see

2187
01:54:32,485 --> 01:54:35,325
that lights will be back on on some of these signs.

2188
01:54:41,145 --> 01:54:45,235
Okay. Again, I guess again,

2189
01:54:45,395 --> 01:54:47,675
i I don't know clearly what's going to be approved.

2190
01:54:47,675 --> 01:54:49,835
Right, right. So that's part of the problem.

2191
01:54:51,105 --> 01:54:55,035
Yeah, I I get it. We're it's kind of through it, right?

2192
01:54:55,225 --> 01:54:58,235
Sure. And your questions, your concerns.

2193
01:54:58,235 --> 01:55:00,315
The applicant has an opportunity to rebut,

2194
01:55:00,725 --> 01:55:04,475
which will take you back to your wife's where she's leading

2195
01:55:04,815 --> 01:55:06,755
and going towards five criteria

2196
01:55:06,775 --> 01:55:08,275
and how the board evaluates it.

2197
01:55:08,275 --> 01:55:12,425
Right. And, you know, I'm not,

2198
01:55:12,445 --> 01:55:17,105
I'm not just disregarding the broker opinion on this.

2199
01:55:17,345 --> 01:55:19,665
I think you had indicated that when the app,

2200
01:55:19,665 --> 01:55:20,745
former application

2201
01:55:20,745 --> 01:55:24,265
for this property was presented last year, I think you felt

2202
01:55:26,255 --> 01:55:28,265
perhaps my comments were condescending,

2203
01:55:28,265 --> 01:55:29,785
which were not intended that way.

2204
01:55:31,855 --> 01:55:33,465
However, the board

2205
01:55:33,645 --> 01:55:37,785
and higher courts do allow the zoning board

2206
01:55:38,345 --> 01:55:42,225
members to evaluate the, the authenticity

2207
01:55:42,225 --> 01:55:44,565
or the reality of what's presented.

2208
01:55:44,765 --> 01:55:48,925
I understand that the applicant as well has presented a,

2209
01:55:49,685 --> 01:55:53,005
a real estate opinion that contradicts you,

2210
01:55:53,145 --> 01:55:54,445
the one that you've presented.

2211
01:55:54,445 --> 01:55:57,125
Yeah, of course it's not being discarded, but it's

2212
01:55:57,865 --> 01:55:59,605
You're saying my property value's gonna go

2213
01:55:59,605 --> 01:56:00,645
up because of business is there

2214
01:56:00,945 --> 01:56:03,005
No, but I, but I am saying thank you.

2215
01:56:03,005 --> 01:56:04,765
They're, thank you're not, they're, they're saying to you

2216
01:56:04,765 --> 01:56:07,685
that it's, it, their present presentation is

2217
01:56:07,685 --> 01:56:10,085
that it's not necessarily affected in the way that your,

2218
01:56:10,475 --> 01:56:11,885
your has been portrayed.

2219
01:56:11,885 --> 01:56:14,565
Alright. So it's up to the board individually

2220
01:56:14,565 --> 01:56:18,645
to evaluate the reality of that broker opinion.

2221
01:56:18,815 --> 01:56:23,645
Right. Lastly,

2222
01:56:23,645 --> 01:56:28,405
what I'm hearing is the signs in the building are backlit,

2223
01:56:30,225 --> 01:56:33,245
and I think you said on the, on the building, but I wa

2224
01:56:33,265 --> 01:56:36,485
but I think I make that note to the backlight sign.

2225
01:56:37,345 --> 01:56:41,205
You know, Mr. Corbett made a point on the,

2226
01:56:41,585 --> 01:56:43,965
in the last meeting relative to whether

2227
01:56:43,985 --> 01:56:46,165
or not the sign should be backlit

2228
01:56:46,825 --> 01:56:49,685
or it should be external.

2229
01:56:50,205 --> 01:56:53,205
External. I think that there was a comment

2230
01:56:56,495 --> 01:56:57,845
indicating that Mr.

2231
01:56:58,155 --> 01:57:00,685
Corbett may have been being derogatory to the,

2232
01:57:00,865 --> 01:57:02,005
to the community.

2233
01:57:02,825 --> 01:57:05,925
But I, I didn't take it that way. I think Mr.

2234
01:57:05,995 --> 01:57:09,405
Trip has pointed out that in the planning board review,

2235
01:57:09,585 --> 01:57:11,645
the building had been vandalized severely

2236
01:57:12,755 --> 01:57:13,885
fire extinguishers.

2237
01:57:15,065 --> 01:57:17,005
And we do know this to be the case.

2238
01:57:17,585 --> 01:57:19,885
And those images were shown at the planning board.

2239
01:57:20,305 --> 01:57:23,005
So I think the reality is that even though Mr.

2240
01:57:23,035 --> 01:57:25,885
Corbett wasn't going that way, the reality is

2241
01:57:25,955 --> 01:57:30,685
that in his own experiences with small children, Halloween

2242
01:57:31,635 --> 01:57:35,205
kids can run off the beaten path and trip over light.

2243
01:57:35,345 --> 01:57:39,845
So I'm taking it back to your point, which is backlit

2244
01:57:39,845 --> 01:57:43,165
of this, of this current sign that we're dealing with

2245
01:57:43,465 --> 01:57:45,285
or externally lit.

2246
01:57:46,105 --> 01:57:48,125
Do you have an opinion on that? Either way?

2247
01:57:51,405 --> 01:57:53,885
I guess my opinion would be if there were

2248
01:57:55,765 --> 01:57:58,845
a right side sign with some lights kind of

2249
01:57:59,515 --> 01:58:04,325
shining down on this sign from both sides

2250
01:58:05,685 --> 01:58:06,885
probably would be okay.

2251
01:58:06,945 --> 01:58:09,125
Or not popular here,

2252
01:58:09,225 --> 01:58:12,325
but some lights in the ground pointing up to that sign.

2253
01:58:13,025 --> 01:58:15,685
So those are externally lit? Yes. Yeah.

2254
01:58:16,595 --> 01:58:19,445
Okay. My, I just have a question.

2255
01:58:19,545 --> 01:58:21,805
And so my fear with the external light where I brought up,

2256
01:58:21,805 --> 01:58:24,645
and again my, I just wanna reiterate my head was not,

2257
01:58:24,985 --> 01:58:26,085
I'm looking at the pictures of the,

2258
01:58:26,245 --> 01:58:27,845
the bour windows now my head was not there

2259
01:58:27,845 --> 01:58:28,925
when I brought that point up.

2260
01:58:29,005 --> 01:58:31,405
I was really just, we have a projection up at Halloween,

2261
01:58:31,405 --> 01:58:32,845
the kids just knock one of the things over.

2262
01:58:33,465 --> 01:58:34,805
That's where my head was going.

2263
01:58:34,805 --> 01:58:38,285
That if this light got hit, would you be at all worried

2264
01:58:38,285 --> 01:58:39,885
that it would then shine at your house?

2265
01:58:39,885 --> 01:58:41,765
Because that's no, to be honest. Okay.

2266
01:58:41,845 --> 01:58:44,605
'cause that's honestly my number one concern with that is

2267
01:58:44,605 --> 01:58:45,725
that all of a sudden you have a beacon,

2268
01:58:45,985 --> 01:58:47,125
you know, hitting you in your living room.

2269
01:58:47,125 --> 01:58:48,685
Sure. And, and this isn't about the

2270
01:58:48,685 --> 01:58:49,965
light, this is about the sign.

2271
01:58:50,225 --> 01:58:52,525
Yep. Yep. But that one, that one

2272
01:58:53,295 --> 01:58:54,845
separation has been the one part,

2273
01:58:54,985 --> 01:58:58,325
but the internal external, as I, as we get further with it,

2274
01:58:59,165 --> 01:59:01,525
I think there's, to your point, there's a few things

2275
01:59:01,525 --> 01:59:03,045
that have to be weighed out here and really have

2276
01:59:03,045 --> 01:59:06,485
to be clear, very clearly defined before a yes or a no vote.

2277
01:59:06,545 --> 01:59:08,245
Either way it has to be laid out

2278
01:59:08,245 --> 01:59:09,845
that we're voting yes or no on it.

2279
01:59:10,705 --> 01:59:12,765
And the light is something that I would like just

2280
01:59:12,785 --> 01:59:14,325
to have addressed.

2281
01:59:14,325 --> 01:59:15,645
Like what we saw before is

2282
01:59:15,645 --> 01:59:17,365
that it looks like there is a down lighting,

2283
01:59:17,375 --> 01:59:19,165
there was internal lighting, there's a lot

2284
01:59:19,165 --> 01:59:20,245
of lighting taking place.

2285
01:59:20,705 --> 01:59:23,125
And now what I see is an opportunity, at least

2286
01:59:23,385 --> 01:59:24,845
to your point, to tighten it up

2287
01:59:25,025 --> 01:59:27,325
and now to really get this in and

2288
01:59:27,465 --> 01:59:29,805
before I suggest an external light,

2289
01:59:29,805 --> 01:59:31,245
that's just really something I want to check

2290
01:59:31,245 --> 01:59:33,005
that we're not now putting you in a spot that

2291
01:59:33,945 --> 01:59:36,605
if a year down the road it's there, you're not,

2292
01:59:36,885 --> 01:59:38,765
I curse me one way or another, but not

2293
01:59:38,765 --> 01:59:39,885
because of a beacon, you know,

2294
01:59:39,885 --> 01:59:42,085
shining at you is really just what I'm trying to avoid.

2295
01:59:42,395 --> 01:59:44,845
Sure. Sometimes you have to wear it a little bit though.

2296
01:59:44,985 --> 01:59:46,445
You just don't know until you don't know.

2297
01:59:47,105 --> 01:59:49,405
No, completely understood. And

2298
01:59:49,405 --> 01:59:50,565
that's all I was just asking for this one.

2299
01:59:51,545 --> 01:59:54,765
So now that we've kind of narrowed some

2300
01:59:54,765 --> 01:59:57,685
of these points down as David's not give you back the floor.

2301
01:59:58,325 --> 02:00:00,925
I mean another thing with the, the signs on the building,

2302
02:00:01,515 --> 02:00:02,845
they're really bright.

2303
02:00:03,475 --> 02:00:05,285
There's two, they're pretty big

2304
02:00:06,105 --> 02:00:09,245
and you can see those from the road quite easily.

2305
02:00:09,835 --> 02:00:13,925
Okay. So does he need the big huge pylon sign

2306
02:00:14,185 --> 02:00:16,085
if he has those as well? No, I don don't.

2307
02:00:16,085 --> 02:00:17,085
Could you speak into the microphone?

2308
02:00:19,145 --> 02:00:20,325
So, Okay.

2309
02:00:22,075 --> 02:00:24,485
Yeah, so it's, you know, you're, you're,

2310
02:00:24,555 --> 02:00:26,525
what you're getting at is that the,

2311
02:00:27,585 --> 02:00:29,045
the building has lights on it.

2312
02:00:29,865 --> 02:00:32,405
The signs on the building are lit.

2313
02:00:33,725 --> 02:00:36,165
I think we heard testimony that suggests that

2314
02:00:36,165 --> 02:00:37,525
that's going to be controlled.

2315
02:00:39,445 --> 02:00:43,605
Understanding that the board's review

2316
02:00:44,945 --> 02:00:48,325
in the issues related to the lighting being on as much

2317
02:00:48,325 --> 02:00:53,085
as it was not having enforcement being able to catch up with

2318
02:00:53,085 --> 02:00:57,445
that was a disappointment I think

2319
02:00:57,445 --> 02:00:58,605
to the board in general.

2320
02:00:58,945 --> 02:01:01,365
So I think we're in tune to what you're saying

2321
02:01:01,985 --> 02:01:05,325
and perhaps the balance between the

2322
02:01:05,855 --> 02:01:07,045
signs on the building

2323
02:01:07,185 --> 02:01:11,685
and lights for this sign get evaluated and,

2324
02:01:12,265 --> 02:01:13,685
and look at a balance for

2325
02:01:13,685 --> 02:01:14,685
That.

2326
02:01:14,685 --> 02:01:14,885
Oh, I don't want the big sign.

2327
02:01:15,345 --> 02:01:16,725
I'm sorry. I don't want the the

2328
02:01:16,725 --> 02:01:17,965
huge pylon sign regardless.

2329
02:01:18,245 --> 02:01:19,725
I understand. Okay.

2330
02:01:24,985 --> 02:01:26,205
Oh, Jim's thing. Yep.

2331
02:01:29,165 --> 02:01:31,805
I did have a question about where'd that go?

2332
02:01:37,195 --> 02:01:42,165
Okay. Yeah. Were you gonna let

2333
02:01:42,695 --> 02:01:43,925
other people speak tonight?

2334
02:01:44,955 --> 02:01:49,645
This is the rebuttal for the abutters per board policy.

2335
02:01:49,785 --> 02:01:52,405
Was Mr, would Mr. Foley be allowed to speak tonight? No.

2336
02:01:52,875 --> 02:01:57,365
Okay, then I'm gonna read something for him. Okay. Mr.

2337
02:01:57,635 --> 02:01:59,325
Corbett was incorrect when he stated

2338
02:01:59,355 --> 02:02:01,565
that the plaintiffs didn't prove bias

2339
02:02:01,565 --> 02:02:02,925
during the superior court hearing.

2340
02:02:03,105 --> 02:02:06,085
It was as with so much that case, the lack of a record

2341
02:02:06,405 --> 02:02:09,245
provided by the minutes of those hearings.

2342
02:02:09,245 --> 02:02:12,085
The bias shown by this board is not just in the

2343
02:02:12,365 --> 02:02:15,205
confrontational, dismissive

2344
02:02:15,225 --> 02:02:18,205
and argumentative manner in which the board addresses any

2345
02:02:18,205 --> 02:02:20,205
that oppose the granting of this variance,

2346
02:02:20,205 --> 02:02:23,245
which includes interruptions of statements, accusations

2347
02:02:23,265 --> 02:02:25,885
of filibustering, admonishments

2348
02:02:26,185 --> 02:02:30,165
and anecdotal anecdotal statements in arguing case law.

2349
02:02:30,195 --> 02:02:33,045
None of these behaviors have been directed at the applicant.

2350
02:02:34,005 --> 02:02:37,085
I believe this is a tactic to make us lose our train

2351
02:02:37,085 --> 02:02:39,485
of thought and frustrate us in presenting our case.

2352
02:02:40,575 --> 02:02:43,285
Would also note that not, I would also note

2353
02:02:43,315 --> 02:02:44,365
that only when those

2354
02:02:44,465 --> 02:02:47,045
who oppose the application were presenting Mr.

2355
02:02:47,195 --> 02:02:48,845
Dietzel was on his personal device

2356
02:02:48,865 --> 02:02:50,365
and not appearing to pay attention.

2357
02:02:51,275 --> 02:02:53,805
It's also clear that this board is desperately trying

2358
02:02:53,805 --> 02:02:56,085
to find theory that would allow them

2359
02:02:56,105 --> 02:02:57,485
to get the result they want.

2360
02:02:58,425 --> 02:03:01,645
The board, not the applicant who has the burden

2361
02:03:01,665 --> 02:03:03,325
of proof brought up the issue

2362
02:03:03,325 --> 02:03:06,005
of whether the new variance application was significantly

2363
02:03:06,005 --> 02:03:08,765
different than the previous overturned variance request.

2364
02:03:09,545 --> 02:03:12,285
The board focused on their own actions from the previous

2365
02:03:12,285 --> 02:03:15,285
hearing and not the current application, claiming

2366
02:03:15,315 --> 02:03:17,845
that they had only discussed one part of the sign

2367
02:03:17,905 --> 02:03:19,205
and not the entire sign.

2368
02:03:19,835 --> 02:03:22,165
This is not reflected in minutes of the previous

2369
02:03:22,305 --> 02:03:23,365
and at least two members

2370
02:03:23,385 --> 02:03:25,325
of the previous voted against the sign.

2371
02:03:26,905 --> 02:03:30,725
As for decision that the slightly smaller backlit,

2372
02:03:30,725 --> 02:03:34,845
oversized commercial sign being materially different from

2373
02:03:34,845 --> 02:03:36,765
the previous sign strains credibility

2374
02:03:37,105 --> 02:03:39,165
as both New Hampshire Supreme cases

2375
02:03:40,585 --> 02:03:42,685
and the New Hampshire Municipal Association.

2376
02:03:42,965 --> 02:03:45,805
Handbooks make clear, minor inconsequential tweaks

2377
02:03:47,715 --> 02:03:52,085
like a slight reduction in square footage are rejected

2378
02:03:52,905 --> 02:03:54,765
the strange tangent by this board

2379
02:03:54,785 --> 02:03:57,365
and not by the applicant into the planning board hearing.

2380
02:03:57,505 --> 02:04:00,165
And in some fashion their decision creates a hardship

2381
02:04:00,165 --> 02:04:02,685
that would allow the granting of the variance.

2382
02:04:03,345 --> 02:04:04,445
So like Mr. Tripp,

2383
02:04:04,685 --> 02:04:06,765
although I have no idea why this is relevant,

2384
02:04:06,765 --> 02:04:08,645
watch the video of the planning board hearing,

2385
02:04:09,115 --> 02:04:12,085
have read the minutes and have reviewed the plans submitted

2386
02:04:12,085 --> 02:04:15,245
by the applicant except for a notation on the plans of

2387
02:04:15,245 --> 02:04:16,925
where the old church sign was.

2388
02:04:17,545 --> 02:04:19,045
The applicant does not bring up,

2389
02:04:19,145 --> 02:04:20,765
nor does the planning board discuss

2390
02:04:20,825 --> 02:04:22,525
or place into their finding any mention

2391
02:04:22,585 --> 02:04:25,365
of an oversized backlit commercial sign for the property.

2392
02:04:26,345 --> 02:04:28,885
The notion of how busy Hampstead Road could create a

2393
02:04:29,085 --> 02:04:31,085
hardship is another theory raised by this board,

2394
02:04:31,095 --> 02:04:34,525
which has no basis in law of facts.

2395
02:04:35,745 --> 02:04:37,765
And I, he has copies of stuff

2396
02:04:37,765 --> 02:04:39,525
that he would like submitted for the record.

2397
02:04:40,165 --> 02:04:42,565
I will say I did talk to the planning board director today

2398
02:04:42,865 --> 02:04:44,005
to ask about the sign

2399
02:04:45,545 --> 02:04:48,565
and she said that the sign,

2400
02:04:49,185 --> 02:04:51,125
the old church sign was on the plan

2401
02:04:53,145 --> 02:04:57,085
and that he didn't present that there was a new sign

2402
02:04:57,085 --> 02:04:58,405
or what's the new sign was gonna be.

2403
02:04:58,425 --> 02:05:03,125
And he had told her that when he knows

2404
02:05:03,125 --> 02:05:04,885
what he is doing for a sign, they would go in front

2405
02:05:04,885 --> 02:05:05,925
of the zoning board for it.

2406
02:05:06,265 --> 02:05:07,405
So just to kind of clarify,

2407
02:05:07,805 --> 02:05:10,045
'cause I know they, somebody said something about the

2408
02:05:10,205 --> 02:05:11,245
planning board should have done it

2409
02:05:11,245 --> 02:05:12,925
or dropped the ball or whatever, but

2410
02:05:13,685 --> 02:05:14,965
I don't, so I did talk to her too.

2411
02:05:14,965 --> 02:05:16,005
We said that they dropped the ball,

2412
02:05:16,145 --> 02:05:18,645
but the site plan does show

2413
02:05:18,645 --> 02:05:20,485
where the new sign would would be

2414
02:05:20,485 --> 02:05:22,165
and it's on that site plan of record.

2415
02:05:23,585 --> 02:05:26,085
So Yeah, I think it just lacked

2416
02:05:26,085 --> 02:05:27,885
of size or anything about it. Right.

2417
02:05:28,065 --> 02:05:29,085
And right. Understand. Apparently

2418
02:05:29,425 --> 02:05:30,425
He told her that.

2419
02:05:31,145 --> 02:05:34,085
So in regards to the statement that you just read,

2420
02:05:34,255 --> 02:05:36,365
let's be clear that's not your statement.

2421
02:05:36,365 --> 02:05:37,725
That is Mr. Foley's.

2422
02:05:37,725 --> 02:05:39,365
What Mr. Foley doesn't seem

2423
02:05:39,365 --> 02:05:43,485
to understand is case law Daniels v London dairy requires

2424
02:05:43,485 --> 02:05:46,445
that the board engage on all points that are presented.

2425
02:05:46,445 --> 02:05:51,285
Otherwise it is applicable for remanding back to the board.

2426
02:05:52,105 --> 02:05:54,725
And so, as Mr. Foley gives his testimony,

2427
02:05:54,825 --> 02:05:56,245
and I'm trying to stop him

2428
02:05:56,265 --> 02:05:58,885
and so I can question certain points he's making,

2429
02:05:59,955 --> 02:06:01,885
same way I've done with both of you.

2430
02:06:02,385 --> 02:06:04,445
He doesn't seem to have the temperament to want

2431
02:06:04,445 --> 02:06:05,725
to hear our questions.

2432
02:06:06,665 --> 02:06:08,085
We don't want to rehear cases,

2433
02:06:08,665 --> 02:06:12,605
but it's Daniel's v London Dairy that creates the, the,

2434
02:06:13,225 --> 02:06:15,685
the path that this board engages

2435
02:06:15,945 --> 02:06:17,805
and asks questions back and forth.

2436
02:06:18,385 --> 02:06:22,925
And I think the false testimony of Mr. Foley both in court

2437
02:06:23,265 --> 02:06:24,645
and in front of his town council

2438
02:06:24,945 --> 02:06:29,805
and then coming up with his accusations as he does, I think

2439
02:06:29,805 --> 02:06:31,245
that paints a larger picture.

2440
02:06:31,305 --> 02:06:32,605
You're saying he lied in court.

2441
02:06:33,065 --> 02:06:35,445
I'm saying he misrepresented points. Hmm.

2442
02:06:36,755 --> 02:06:39,405
Okay. Okay. I think you found,

2443
02:06:39,645 --> 02:06:42,005
I hope you found this engagement fair with you.

2444
02:06:42,365 --> 02:06:44,245
I did. But you guys, I I know fairness,

2445
02:06:44,385 --> 02:06:45,685
you interrupted him a lot.

2446
02:06:46,315 --> 02:06:48,405
Much different all lot tonight than

2447
02:06:48,405 --> 02:06:50,845
what Jim was treated the other night. Yeah. Bang

2448
02:06:50,925 --> 02:06:53,005
A hundred yelling, banging and telling's

2449
02:06:53,005 --> 02:06:54,005
Done.

2450
02:06:54,005 --> 02:06:56,245
He's bringing points up that we have a right to ask him

2451
02:06:56,505 --> 02:06:59,525
for clarity on and he doesn't want to hear any clarity.

2452
02:06:59,915 --> 02:07:02,245
He's already positioned in his mind

2453
02:07:02,555 --> 02:07:07,285
that there's some conspiracy going on versus understanding

2454
02:07:07,435 --> 02:07:08,525
what the process is.

2455
02:07:08,545 --> 02:07:10,445
And I'm willing to bet he doesn't even know

2456
02:07:10,445 --> 02:07:12,725
what Daniel's v London dairy is

2457
02:07:14,075 --> 02:07:15,075
From my point of view.

2458
02:07:16,285 --> 02:07:19,085
I just want to say watching it unfold that night,

2459
02:07:19,265 --> 02:07:21,725
he was interrupted several times, couldn't,

2460
02:07:22,045 --> 02:07:23,885
couldn't gain back his train

2461
02:07:23,925 --> 02:07:25,285
of thought several times. Right.

2462
02:07:25,285 --> 02:07:27,405
Like tonight you waited and you asked at the end

2463
02:07:28,515 --> 02:07:30,005
Much different. Just much different, much

2464
02:07:30,005 --> 02:07:31,005
Different.

2465
02:07:31,005 --> 02:07:32,645
Well he, he throws a lot at you

2466
02:07:32,985 --> 02:07:35,685
and you're trying to bring the temperament down

2467
02:07:35,945 --> 02:07:37,965
and engage in each of those points.

2468
02:07:39,125 --> 02:07:43,725
I, I paused you and Brenda, right? Yeah.

2469
02:07:44,625 --> 02:07:47,685
So I can get clarity on Will's points. Yeah.

2470
02:07:47,905 --> 02:07:50,405
And, and you try to digest these a little bit at a time

2471
02:07:51,355 --> 02:07:55,725
when there's such belligerence coming at you, it's hard

2472
02:07:55,725 --> 02:07:59,405
to get that belligerence to put a pause, make a note of

2473
02:07:59,405 --> 02:08:01,725
where they're at and engage in the questions

2474
02:08:01,725 --> 02:08:02,765
that are being presented.

2475
02:08:03,405 --> 02:08:05,845
Probably vice versa too. I do feel like

2476
02:08:09,265 --> 02:08:10,845
the point he was trying to make was

2477
02:08:12,655 --> 02:08:17,245
we're making this about a sign and not the land use

2478
02:08:18,225 --> 02:08:22,005
and the five criteria that the applicant needs to meet.

2479
02:08:22,635 --> 02:08:24,325
Well he, I think the board's

2480
02:08:24,325 --> 02:08:25,405
gonna come back around to that.

2481
02:08:25,405 --> 02:08:27,725
But one of the comments that I made that he totally

2482
02:08:28,925 --> 02:08:31,445
disagreed and blew off, I don't even know if he heard it,

2483
02:08:31,735 --> 02:08:34,285
which was that these points were discussed.

2484
02:08:34,555 --> 02:08:37,285
They did not get conveyed to the certified record.

2485
02:08:38,175 --> 02:08:40,965
Hence it goes into the next court.

2486
02:08:41,185 --> 02:08:43,765
And some of that record is skewed.

2487
02:08:44,285 --> 02:08:47,845
I don't believe that everything that was was

2488
02:08:49,125 --> 02:08:51,365
provided in the court was accurate.

2489
02:08:51,865 --> 02:08:55,405
But that being said, that engagement occurred,

2490
02:08:55,505 --> 02:08:56,765
the court made its decision.

2491
02:08:57,345 --> 02:09:00,845
And I will also say to you that relative in reflection of

2492
02:09:00,845 --> 02:09:04,525
that decision, it's caused this board

2493
02:09:04,525 --> 02:09:08,565
to take a larger look at this, at these ordinances.

2494
02:09:10,385 --> 02:09:11,885
And I think you're gonna hear that

2495
02:09:12,345 --> 02:09:13,885
as we move forward. Great.

2496
02:09:14,865 --> 02:09:17,405
Can we submit this? What do you for record,

2497
02:09:17,405 --> 02:09:19,765
do you have there Mr. Foley's? Statement?

2498
02:09:19,915 --> 02:09:21,245
Statement and he had some

2499
02:09:21,405 --> 02:09:22,805
Well, I'll tell you what, just give it to Ms.

2500
02:09:23,025 --> 02:09:24,885
Zan and keep it with you Ms. Zan.

2501
02:09:24,885 --> 02:09:27,685
You can put it in the file if you'd like. Alright.

2502
02:09:27,685 --> 02:09:29,005
I think we've heard testimony.

2503
02:09:29,025 --> 02:09:30,525
So any, anything more for me?

2504
02:09:31,025 --> 02:09:34,565
Any questions for these folks? Anybody?

2505
02:09:34,565 --> 02:09:36,285
I know Mr. Trip has one. Mr. Trip.

2506
02:09:36,715 --> 02:09:38,365
Alright, we, me too.

2507
02:09:39,325 --> 02:09:42,885
I I'd like to thank you for coming tonight

2508
02:09:43,745 --> 02:09:45,565
and providing testimony.

2509
02:09:46,365 --> 02:09:50,205
'cause anything that we can get that clarifies

2510
02:09:52,555 --> 02:09:54,805
what the problem is

2511
02:09:56,105 --> 02:09:59,685
and what a possible resolution would be is appreciated.

2512
02:10:02,965 --> 02:10:06,565
I think some of the suggestions you, you made about

2513
02:10:09,065 --> 02:10:13,885
the verification method of, you know, what the lighting is,

2514
02:10:14,425 --> 02:10:18,645
should there be lighting would be a, a a,

2515
02:10:19,045 --> 02:10:21,805
a good step, a step in the right direction

2516
02:10:21,805 --> 02:10:26,365
because typically we take

2517
02:10:27,205 --> 02:10:30,165
testimony on, you know, lighting

2518
02:10:30,625 --> 02:10:34,285
and the, the applicant presents

2519
02:10:36,185 --> 02:10:40,485
expert testimony as to, you know, what the lumens are

2520
02:10:41,225 --> 02:10:43,605
and when the light's gonna be operated

2521
02:10:43,625 --> 02:10:45,285
and da dah da da, you know,

2522
02:10:46,705 --> 02:10:50,565
and we, we accept that we don't question it, you know,

2523
02:10:50,565 --> 02:10:51,725
because they're experts

2524
02:10:51,785 --> 02:10:54,845
and you know, I, I wouldn't know what Illumina is if

2525
02:10:55,405 --> 02:10:59,965
I saw it, but I

2526
02:11:01,045 --> 02:11:02,085
I have a question for you.

2527
02:11:05,065 --> 02:11:07,965
You said you're on wishing well Road Lane. Yeah.

2528
02:11:07,965 --> 02:11:11,805
Wishing well. Lane Road. I'm sorry. That shows it.

2529
02:11:13,545 --> 02:11:17,085
So this is at the rear of the property, I believe.

2530
02:11:17,545 --> 02:11:18,845
Say Again? The which,

2531
02:11:18,845 --> 02:11:21,605
and well, lane is at the rear of the property.

2532
02:11:22,355 --> 02:11:23,365
It's across the street from

2533
02:11:23,365 --> 02:11:25,325
It directly across the street from the sign

2534
02:11:26,425 --> 02:11:29,285
Di Directly across the street from the building inside.

2535
02:11:29,305 --> 02:11:33,085
I'm sorry, decorate directly across Hampstead Road. Yes.

2536
02:11:33,955 --> 02:11:36,765
Okay. So, so you have a,

2537
02:11:39,465 --> 02:11:41,885
you great view, a fairly good view of it then?

2538
02:11:42,625 --> 02:11:46,445
Yes. This is my view from my front lawn.

2539
02:11:47,385 --> 02:11:49,125
I'm happy to provide this for you. Yes.

2540
02:11:49,245 --> 02:11:50,645
I motion to, to take that.

2541
02:11:50,685 --> 02:11:51,725
I think you guys had mentioned

2542
02:11:51,725 --> 02:11:53,245
that a couple of meetings ago.

2543
02:11:53,325 --> 02:11:54,565
I was hoping to see that. Thank you.

2544
02:11:56,665 --> 02:11:58,645
That's our front lawn, our backyard.

2545
02:11:58,985 --> 02:12:00,685
Second. Thank you Mr.

2546
02:12:01,145 --> 02:12:04,245
All in favor of the accepting the photo. Say aye,

2547
02:12:04,975 --> 02:12:06,165
These Are from the front lawn

2548
02:12:06,725 --> 02:12:08,005
Standing right in my front. I

2549
02:12:08,005 --> 02:12:09,005
Have the pictures from the backyard.

2550
02:12:09,915 --> 02:12:12,245
Alright. When it was lit,

2551
02:12:14,845 --> 02:12:16,165
I, I think one of the things that

2552
02:12:18,865 --> 02:12:20,325
the chairman had mentioned was that

2553
02:12:25,105 --> 02:12:28,285
We were probably half to two thirds through

2554
02:12:30,665 --> 02:12:34,125
one of the hearings when it was mentioned by someone that

2555
02:12:35,225 --> 02:12:37,765
the lights were on 24 hours a day.

2556
02:12:38,545 --> 02:12:42,125
Yes. You know, well I don't drive down window

2557
02:12:42,965 --> 02:12:44,285
Hamstead road a lot, so,

2558
02:12:44,705 --> 02:12:47,405
and I, I barely, rarely go out at night.

2559
02:12:47,425 --> 02:12:48,445
So I would, you know,

2560
02:12:48,445 --> 02:12:50,445
and I think there's a lot of people that on the,

2561
02:12:50,445 --> 02:12:52,685
on the board that would concur with me

2562
02:12:52,685 --> 02:12:57,125
that we were unaware of that.

2563
02:12:57,945 --> 02:13:00,525
You know, I I,

2564
02:13:00,825 --> 02:13:04,725
and I did speak with Carrie

2565
02:13:05,385 --> 02:13:08,085
and she said that they never went out at night to see, so

2566
02:13:08,085 --> 02:13:10,685
that they wouldn't know either, you know, so

2567
02:13:13,245 --> 02:13:17,885
I think if you think

2568
02:13:17,885 --> 02:13:19,045
that we're not listening or,

2569
02:13:19,105 --> 02:13:22,645
or we're antagonistic, you know, there's things that,

2570
02:13:22,825 --> 02:13:26,045
you know, that we're unaware of, you know,

2571
02:13:26,625 --> 02:13:29,645
and it, once we found out

2572
02:13:29,875 --> 02:13:31,365
that the lights were on all the time

2573
02:13:31,705 --> 02:13:35,045
or at the lights on the building were pointed up in the,

2574
02:13:35,665 --> 02:13:40,005
the sky like an aircraft lights, you know,

2575
02:13:40,905 --> 02:13:44,165
we could understand something the, the issues

2576
02:13:44,165 --> 02:13:45,445
that you were having with the lights.

2577
02:13:45,785 --> 02:13:49,045
Yes. My point is clear definition

2578
02:13:49,045 --> 02:13:51,645
of exactly what's being approved so that Yeah.

2579
02:13:51,785 --> 02:13:55,725
So that code enforcement can enforce it. Yeah.

2580
02:13:55,865 --> 02:13:59,765
And we can, we can work with code enforcement if need be.

2581
02:14:00,435 --> 02:14:04,205
Yeah. Well I I believe that's, you know, this part

2582
02:14:04,205 --> 02:14:07,165
of the solution of this problem is that, you know,

2583
02:14:08,395 --> 02:14:12,045
when we first heard this case back in November, you know,

2584
02:14:12,155 --> 02:14:14,085
that information might have been presented.

2585
02:14:14,645 --> 02:14:17,965
I, I don't remember the details of

2586
02:14:17,965 --> 02:14:19,365
what the lumens were gonna be

2587
02:14:20,065 --> 02:14:25,005
or, you know, I do remember that when we approved the plan

2588
02:14:25,635 --> 02:14:29,885
that, or the variance that we asked specifically,

2589
02:14:30,585 --> 02:14:32,845
you know, when the lights were gonna be on

2590
02:14:38,705 --> 02:14:41,485
and, and some other details, you know, that,

2591
02:14:43,195 --> 02:14:46,965
like I said, I don't go out there to, to verify

2592
02:14:46,965 --> 02:14:48,405
that stuff, you know?

2593
02:14:49,125 --> 02:14:50,165
I get it. Yep.

2594
02:14:50,665 --> 02:14:55,165
And if, if you would've,

2595
02:14:56,345 --> 02:14:59,405
you know, let the code enforcement officer,

2596
02:14:59,465 --> 02:15:03,085
we did know a little bit sooner then.

2597
02:15:06,065 --> 02:15:09,885
So if you'd like to revisit that there,

2598
02:15:10,155 --> 02:15:13,445
there's testimony of people going to code enforcement

2599
02:15:14,585 --> 02:15:18,085
and code enforcement sending letters, sending emails,

2600
02:15:18,605 --> 02:15:19,925
stopping by, knocking at the door.

2601
02:15:20,905 --> 02:15:22,605
And Mr.

2602
02:15:23,065 --> 02:15:25,085
Yco saying, I never received a letter,

2603
02:15:25,085 --> 02:15:26,205
nobody knocked on my door.

2604
02:15:26,205 --> 02:15:27,885
Nobody called, I never received an email.

2605
02:15:28,305 --> 02:15:31,125
So there's a, he said, she said

2606
02:15:31,845 --> 02:15:33,645
situation there all on its own.

2607
02:15:33,675 --> 02:15:36,845
That kind of materialized

2608
02:15:36,985 --> 02:15:39,085
during the LA two meetings ago, I believe.

2609
02:15:39,905 --> 02:15:43,405
And I didn't want to visit that.

2610
02:15:43,425 --> 02:15:44,525
But since you bring it up,

2611
02:15:45,225 --> 02:15:48,645
that's my fear is non-compliance.

2612
02:15:48,945 --> 02:15:52,245
How do we fix something that we don't even, first

2613
02:15:52,245 --> 02:15:53,365
of all know what it is?

2614
02:15:54,345 --> 02:15:56,285
And then second of all, code enfor,

2615
02:15:56,475 --> 02:15:58,405
code enforcements not there at night.

2616
02:15:58,875 --> 02:16:00,605
They don't have the, they don't have the

2617
02:16:00,605 --> 02:16:01,725
light meter to check it.

2618
02:16:02,105 --> 02:16:03,925
The town doesn't own something to check this.

2619
02:16:04,105 --> 02:16:05,925
So how do you, how do you enforce it?

2620
02:16:06,705 --> 02:16:10,565
So all, all I'm looking for is how do you do those things

2621
02:16:12,425 --> 02:16:15,565
in order to keep the neighbors happy

2622
02:16:16,025 --> 02:16:19,125
and the business happy with how they can run their business.

2623
02:16:19,365 --> 02:16:23,165
I guess my thoughts are as kind of a smaller m smaller sign

2624
02:16:23,545 --> 02:16:25,605
and some something less bright

2625
02:16:25,665 --> 02:16:27,085
and lit than what's there today.

2626
02:16:27,765 --> 02:16:28,805
That's how I see it. Yeah,

2627
02:16:29,465 --> 02:16:32,405
You're legitimately concerned about the compliance issue.

2628
02:16:32,605 --> 02:16:36,285
I think the testimony that was given in early April, I think

2629
02:16:37,365 --> 02:16:40,125
bothered the board to hear that that was occurring

2630
02:16:41,205 --> 02:16:43,645
stipulations with, in, you know,

2631
02:16:43,945 --> 02:16:46,645
the prior case relative to this parcel.

2632
02:16:47,325 --> 02:16:51,285
A lot of focus was on the electronic messaging sign portion

2633
02:16:51,345 --> 02:16:53,165
of this, which I think is where

2634
02:16:53,785 --> 02:16:58,005
the board's eyes has have opened up relative to three pages

2635
02:16:58,065 --> 02:16:59,245
of sign ordinances

2636
02:16:59,785 --> 02:17:01,765
and kind of getting a better comprehension

2637
02:17:02,025 --> 02:17:06,565
of the whole ordinance stipulations regarding signs

2638
02:17:07,265 --> 02:17:08,485
and where they're going to go

2639
02:17:08,945 --> 02:17:10,725
or what they, what's appropriate.

2640
02:17:11,385 --> 02:17:14,805
And I think that's, that this case has been one of those

2641
02:17:14,805 --> 02:17:18,005
that has been more reflective in that regard.

2642
02:17:18,905 --> 02:17:20,285
The hours of operation

2643
02:17:20,285 --> 02:17:22,725
for the electronic messaging sign were stipulated

2644
02:17:23,145 --> 02:17:26,165
and I think, and were, were a lot

2645
02:17:26,165 --> 02:17:28,845
of discussions about 'em almost a year ago

2646
02:17:28,845 --> 02:17:30,045
when it was brought forward.

2647
02:17:30,505 --> 02:17:33,765
And that's why the disappointment of the board has been,

2648
02:17:35,115 --> 02:17:38,925
been made and not, you know, within itself and,

2649
02:17:39,465 --> 02:17:43,965
and understandably bothersome to every member of the board.

2650
02:17:43,985 --> 02:17:46,005
So I appreciate that The, you know,

2651
02:17:46,045 --> 02:17:48,725
I think there's appropriate fines in this regard.

2652
02:17:49,485 --> 02:17:51,485
I think that as we,

2653
02:17:52,745 --> 02:17:56,685
as staff has started to get a better feel of the, the road

2654
02:17:56,685 --> 02:18:00,645
that they deal with, there are fines that are associated

2655
02:18:00,645 --> 02:18:04,845
with non-compliance and I think we're better suited now.

2656
02:18:06,085 --> 02:18:09,845
I think Mrs. Owen has indicated that we are more equipped

2657
02:18:10,305 --> 02:18:12,125
to be able to measure the things

2658
02:18:12,125 --> 02:18:13,405
that you're bringing forward

2659
02:18:13,665 --> 02:18:16,005
and to monitor it better down the road.

2660
02:18:16,265 --> 02:18:19,925
So to that regard, there's a lot of transitions going on

2661
02:18:20,425 --> 02:18:22,685
and none of them are conspiratorial.

2662
02:18:23,215 --> 02:18:25,925
Thank you. Alright, any questions?

2663
02:18:26,365 --> 02:18:27,565
Just one thing, not a question,

2664
02:18:27,665 --> 02:18:29,725
but just for clarity's sake.

2665
02:18:30,365 --> 02:18:33,125
I don't want, I, I write a lot when you guys are up talking,

2666
02:18:33,145 --> 02:18:34,365
mostly all of the abutters.

2667
02:18:34,365 --> 02:18:36,165
I don't want it to come across that I'm doodling

2668
02:18:36,265 --> 02:18:37,485
and I hope that's not the case.

2669
02:18:37,515 --> 02:18:38,805
Just a peek behind the curtain.

2670
02:18:38,985 --> 02:18:40,805
And not that you guys need to see all the sausages made.

2671
02:18:41,285 --> 02:18:42,965
A lot of what I do is just, I'm documenting

2672
02:18:42,965 --> 02:18:44,285
what's being said, what we're seeing.

2673
02:18:44,785 --> 02:18:47,005
And then a lot of it is I try to write down all

2674
02:18:47,005 --> 02:18:49,925
of your testimony really as much as I can to go through

2675
02:18:49,925 --> 02:18:51,125
to make sure that we try to, you know,

2676
02:18:51,125 --> 02:18:52,845
it's about four years cases to make sure we go through

2677
02:18:52,845 --> 02:18:54,165
and try to hit each of the topics.

2678
02:18:54,765 --> 02:18:56,205
A lot of the time I'll highlight

2679
02:18:56,225 --> 02:18:58,045
or underline a few things I might be thinking of

2680
02:18:58,045 --> 02:19:00,605
that you touch upon, but it's usually to reiterate a point

2681
02:19:00,905 --> 02:19:02,965
and just so you, not necessarily

2682
02:19:02,965 --> 02:19:04,125
with the camera, but so you guys see it.

2683
02:19:04,155 --> 02:19:06,365
Also, when I'm on my phone, I'm usually pulling up Google

2684
02:19:06,365 --> 02:19:08,165
Earth and this one was to see a view from,

2685
02:19:08,685 --> 02:19:10,445
honestly just from your property so I can get more of a feel

2686
02:19:10,445 --> 02:19:12,005
as you're talking to see what you're going with.

2687
02:19:12,005 --> 02:19:13,925
Appreciate. So it's just for the general audience

2688
02:19:13,925 --> 02:19:15,565
that if you do see that, I don't want it

2689
02:19:15,765 --> 02:19:17,005
to come across as disrespectful.

2690
02:19:17,195 --> 02:19:18,685
It's truly me trying to think that I'm trying

2691
02:19:18,685 --> 02:19:20,645
to get myself in your shoes and really look at it

2692
02:19:20,645 --> 02:19:21,725
from that point of view as well.

2693
02:19:21,905 --> 02:19:24,525
So, apologize for any, just how that comes across.

2694
02:19:24,805 --> 02:19:26,605
I didn't really think of it that way, Mr.

2695
02:19:26,655 --> 02:19:28,045
Chair. Mr. Dietza,

2696
02:19:28,365 --> 02:19:30,525
Since my name was invoked in that conversation,

2697
02:19:30,665 --> 02:19:31,845
I'd like to respond as well.

2698
02:19:32,485 --> 02:19:36,485
I take notes. I try to get it as carefully, closely to

2699
02:19:36,485 --> 02:19:38,685
what you're saying is I can, so

2700
02:19:38,685 --> 02:19:39,965
that I can respond appropriately.

2701
02:19:40,765 --> 02:19:44,245
I bring up on my iPad the five criteria so I can judge

2702
02:19:44,675 --> 02:19:46,845
what you're saying against the five criteria.

2703
02:19:47,365 --> 02:19:49,925
I also use Google Maps like Mr. Corbit.

2704
02:19:50,255 --> 02:19:52,645
We're not being an an attentive

2705
02:19:53,225 --> 02:19:56,125
or disrespectful to your testimony.

2706
02:19:56,645 --> 02:19:59,845
I am listening with open ears at all times.

2707
02:20:00,225 --> 02:20:01,885
So if you have that misperception,

2708
02:20:01,985 --> 02:20:03,045
I'd like to clear that up.

2709
02:20:03,335 --> 02:20:04,645
Thank you, Mr. Chair.

2710
02:20:04,705 --> 02:20:08,805
You're welcome. Mr. Donlin, anything You all set?

2711
02:20:09,625 --> 02:20:10,885
I'm all set. Mr. Chair.

2712
02:20:10,885 --> 02:20:15,525
Okay. And Mr. Mor is Mr. Henry. Any questions? Mr.

2713
02:20:15,925 --> 02:20:19,205
O Bimba or Mr. Dani? You all set? I'm all set chair.

2714
02:20:19,275 --> 02:20:20,565
Okay, good enough. Can

2715
02:20:20,565 --> 02:20:21,565
I ask one last question?

2716
02:20:21,635 --> 02:20:25,925
Sure. Are any of you baseball coaches for youth or,

2717
02:20:26,225 --> 02:20:30,285
or any of the surrounding community for baseball?

2718
02:20:31,185 --> 02:20:33,365
Yes, I'm part of the Rec Dairy Rec Dairy

2719
02:20:33,365 --> 02:20:34,725
Diamond. I coach for the

2720
02:20:34,825 --> 02:20:35,825
Aaa.

2721
02:20:35,825 --> 02:20:38,045
And do you send kids, do you send kids to this camp? No,

2722
02:20:38,105 --> 02:20:39,205
Not to the camp. Do

2723
02:20:39,205 --> 02:20:41,885
You refer parents to his, to this camp

2724
02:20:42,625 --> 02:20:44,405
or to NEA at all?

2725
02:20:44,745 --> 02:20:47,445
No, I've mentioned NEA 'cause I know kids who play in it.

2726
02:20:47,675 --> 02:20:49,365
I've mentioned that kids play for NEA,

2727
02:20:49,595 --> 02:20:50,925
like when we compete against them,

2728
02:20:50,925 --> 02:20:53,005
there are some pitchers in the majors level that we see,

2729
02:20:53,385 --> 02:20:55,245
but I don't do any business with them. Okay.

2730
02:20:55,545 --> 02:20:57,405
I'm also a baseball coach in town

2731
02:20:57,865 --> 02:20:59,805
and I didn't know this business existed

2732
02:21:00,015 --> 02:21:01,165
until this came before us.

2733
02:21:01,795 --> 02:21:03,205
Okay, thank you. Is

2734
02:21:03,205 --> 02:21:05,205
that this current case or the former one?

2735
02:21:05,225 --> 02:21:06,225
Mr. Donley?

2736
02:21:07,325 --> 02:21:08,765
I wasn't present for the former one.

2737
02:21:08,785 --> 02:21:11,885
Oh, got it. Okay. Alright. All set?

2738
02:21:12,105 --> 02:21:13,165
Yep. Thank you. Very

2739
02:21:13,165 --> 02:21:14,165
Good.

2740
02:21:14,315 --> 02:21:16,845
Alright, I think Mrs.

2741
02:21:17,165 --> 02:21:21,515
Ro, I'll ask your husband

2742
02:21:21,695 --> 02:21:22,475
to stay back

2743
02:21:32,565 --> 02:21:34,095
just for protocol.

2744
02:21:34,235 --> 02:21:37,135
You know we're in rebuttal for butters,

2745
02:21:37,255 --> 02:21:38,575
so this is that protocol.

2746
02:21:38,645 --> 02:21:39,695
Okay. Okay.

2747
02:21:39,695 --> 02:21:43,615
Alright. Alright. My name's Jessica Cloutier.

2748
02:21:44,095 --> 02:21:46,175
I live at 1 6 4 Hampstead Road.

2749
02:21:47,925 --> 02:21:49,775
Tonight I prepared a speech again.

2750
02:21:52,315 --> 02:21:54,255
So at the April zoning board meeting,

2751
02:21:54,415 --> 02:21:57,895
I explained why I believe Bird Enterprises did not meet any

2752
02:21:57,895 --> 02:22:00,695
of the five conditions required for a variance.

2753
02:22:00,925 --> 02:22:04,175
Tonight I am only going to focus on one issue as I don't,

2754
02:22:04,395 --> 02:22:06,095
so I don't take up too much of your time.

2755
02:22:06,195 --> 02:22:07,695
And that issue would be hardship.

2756
02:22:08,145 --> 02:22:11,015
After sitting through these meetings, it seems

2757
02:22:11,015 --> 02:22:12,815
that applicant's main argument is

2758
02:22:12,815 --> 02:22:15,975
that they need this large backlit pylon sign

2759
02:22:16,035 --> 02:22:17,415
so people can find the business.

2760
02:22:18,095 --> 02:22:20,255
I would have to disagree that this type

2761
02:22:20,255 --> 02:22:21,615
of sign is necessary.

2762
02:22:22,635 --> 02:22:26,805
As I mentioned at the April meeting, I visited several

2763
02:22:27,435 --> 02:22:30,565
similar landscaping and nursery businesses around town

2764
02:22:30,945 --> 02:22:32,645
and took photos of those signs.

2765
02:22:33,305 --> 02:22:35,445
Not one of them has this type

2766
02:22:35,445 --> 02:22:38,685
of oversized back lit bylaw sign being requested here.

2767
02:22:39,385 --> 02:22:43,405
One example is Spring Look Farm on Island Pond Road here in

2768
02:22:43,565 --> 02:22:45,485
Derry, they have been in business for decades,

2769
02:22:46,155 --> 02:22:49,485
despite being approximately 860 feet from the road

2770
02:22:50,265 --> 02:22:53,445
and only partially visible for from passing traffic.

2771
02:22:54,035 --> 02:22:56,645
They have managed to operate successfully all these years

2772
02:22:56,645 --> 02:22:58,365
without a large industrial sign.

2773
02:22:58,795 --> 02:23:02,645
Meanwhile, bird Enterprises is located on a much busier

2774
02:23:02,645 --> 02:23:05,725
roadway and only 300 feet from the road

2775
02:23:05,875 --> 02:23:09,165
with a large open lot that includes over 400 feet

2776
02:23:09,185 --> 02:23:11,205
of unobstructed road frontage

2777
02:23:11,575 --> 02:23:15,325
where the business is clearly visible to passing traffic.

2778
02:23:16,225 --> 02:23:18,925
If all these types of businesses in town have this wooden

2779
02:23:18,995 --> 02:23:23,125
type sign that is externally lit that fit the character

2780
02:23:23,125 --> 02:23:26,925
of this town, why does this location need such an oversized

2781
02:23:27,195 --> 02:23:31,005
16 foot tall industrial type sign to draw people in?

2782
02:23:31,385 --> 02:23:34,405
The sign is inconsistent with the residential character

2783
02:23:34,945 --> 02:23:36,565
the ordinance is designed to protect.

2784
02:23:37,345 --> 02:23:41,125
To me, this shows that there is no true hardship inherited

2785
02:23:41,705 --> 02:23:42,885
to the property itself.

2786
02:23:43,465 --> 02:23:47,045
The issue is not visibility, it is simply a preference

2787
02:23:47,045 --> 02:23:50,925
for a larger and more commercial style sign.

2788
02:23:51,805 --> 02:23:54,925
A hardship must come from the land itself, not from a desire

2789
02:23:54,945 --> 02:23:57,045
for a more prominent advertising.

2790
02:23:58,035 --> 02:24:00,445
I'll just briefly go over the five conditions

2791
02:24:00,585 --> 02:24:02,645
and how he meets none of them.

2792
02:24:04,545 --> 02:24:06,765
And I'm gonna read from your application

2793
02:24:08,865 --> 02:24:11,525
for a variance to be granted, you must show that your

2794
02:24:12,445 --> 02:24:15,725
proposal meets all five of the conditions outlined below.

2795
02:24:16,435 --> 02:24:19,325
Condition one. There shall be no decrease in value

2796
02:24:19,385 --> 02:24:20,605
of surrounding properties

2797
02:24:22,065 --> 02:24:26,965
and property values would decline if

2798
02:24:26,965 --> 02:24:28,565
that sign remains there

2799
02:24:28,835 --> 02:24:31,965
because, sorry.

2800
02:24:34,245 --> 02:24:37,285
'cause property values decline when a quiet residential area

2801
02:24:37,355 --> 02:24:41,365
becomes to look and feel more commercial condition.

2802
02:24:41,385 --> 02:24:43,125
Two, granting the variance would be

2803
02:24:43,125 --> 02:24:44,285
in the public's interest.

2804
02:24:46,445 --> 02:24:47,445
I would have to disagree

2805
02:24:47,445 --> 02:24:50,405
because when referring to the public best interest,

2806
02:24:50,555 --> 02:24:52,725
that also include all abutters

2807
02:24:52,725 --> 02:24:55,165
and everyone else in the surrounding neighborhoods.

2808
02:24:55,585 --> 02:24:57,925
And we get no benefit from a private business

2809
02:24:57,925 --> 02:24:59,485
installing a commercial sign.

2810
02:24:59,875 --> 02:25:02,365
This type of sign brings light pollution, traffic,

2811
02:25:02,765 --> 02:25:05,245
distractions, and disruption to a residential area.

2812
02:25:05,825 --> 02:25:09,925
Public interest lies in preserving neighborhood character,

2813
02:25:10,145 --> 02:25:12,045
not promoting commercial activity

2814
02:25:12,265 --> 02:25:13,725
and zones not meant for it.

2815
02:25:15,515 --> 02:25:18,045
Condition three, A hardship must exist,

2816
02:25:18,095 --> 02:25:20,565
which is inherent in the land in question.

2817
02:25:20,865 --> 02:25:23,965
And I've already gone over that condition. Four.

2818
02:25:24,265 --> 02:25:28,325
By granting the variance substantial justice will be done,

2819
02:25:30,425 --> 02:25:34,845
the gain to the business in this situation is far

2820
02:25:35,495 --> 02:25:37,605
outweighed by the harm to the residents

2821
02:25:38,025 --> 02:25:41,605
by the property value decreasing piece

2822
02:25:41,705 --> 02:25:42,725
and light

2823
02:25:42,725 --> 02:25:46,805
pollution in condition five.

2824
02:25:46,865 --> 02:25:49,085
The use must not be contrary to the spirit

2825
02:25:49,425 --> 02:25:50,925
and intent of the ordinance.

2826
02:25:51,345 --> 02:25:52,685
The spirit of the ordinance is

2827
02:25:52,685 --> 02:25:55,005
to separate residential and commercial use.

2828
02:25:55,865 --> 02:25:59,325
The ordinance is designed to promote the health, safety,

2829
02:25:59,385 --> 02:26:00,805
and welfare of residents.

2830
02:26:00,805 --> 02:26:04,125
Granting this variance would undermine the entire purpose

2831
02:26:04,305 --> 02:26:05,645
of residential zoning.

2832
02:26:08,145 --> 02:26:11,165
For these reasons, I respectfully urge the board

2833
02:26:11,185 --> 02:26:15,285
to deny the 16 foot tall pylon sign in this residential

2834
02:26:15,605 --> 02:26:18,805
district and urge the a applicant to rethink the type

2835
02:26:18,805 --> 02:26:22,245
of sign for the location and go, sorry,

2836
02:26:22,345 --> 02:26:24,525
and go for one that is better suited for this area.

2837
02:26:28,995 --> 02:26:29,605
That is all.

2838
02:26:30,545 --> 02:26:33,765
So when you, you know,

2839
02:26:33,765 --> 02:26:35,965
you've heard the Davidsons come

2840
02:26:37,065 --> 02:26:38,765
and their points of view

2841
02:26:39,425 --> 02:26:43,045
and the exchange with that,

2842
02:26:45,915 --> 02:26:48,245
what is acceptable to you in this regard?

2843
02:26:49,835 --> 02:26:52,765
Well, of course I don't have the pictures with me tonight,

2844
02:26:52,825 --> 02:26:57,365
but when I went around town looking at other businesses

2845
02:26:57,365 --> 02:27:00,365
of this type, I came to find that this town,

2846
02:27:03,185 --> 02:27:06,165
but fits the character is more of like,

2847
02:27:06,165 --> 02:27:10,245
of a wooden sign kind of, and it's externally lit.

2848
02:27:10,915 --> 02:27:14,925
Like I have small pictures with me. Sorry. That's fine.

2849
02:27:15,805 --> 02:27:18,845
I feel like that is much more suited for our area

2850
02:27:18,985 --> 02:27:20,085
and fits the character.

2851
02:27:22,635 --> 02:27:27,375
The signs that Andrew Rose brought forward

2852
02:27:28,365 --> 02:27:29,615
have been verified,

2853
02:27:29,735 --> 02:27:31,855
I think the spring look you've referred to.

2854
02:27:33,235 --> 02:27:35,455
And those, the, some

2855
02:27:35,455 --> 02:27:38,495
of these signs are larger than the permitted signs

2856
02:27:38,605 --> 02:27:41,415
that are established in the ordinances,

2857
02:27:42,635 --> 02:27:45,415
but those were used as references as to

2858
02:27:45,415 --> 02:27:46,615
what would be acceptable.

2859
02:27:47,515 --> 02:27:49,335
But that's the size.

2860
02:27:49,595 --> 02:27:52,095
And you're describing different,

2861
02:27:53,655 --> 02:27:55,575
a different design, so to speak.

2862
02:27:55,735 --> 02:27:57,535
A wooden sign, I think Meadowbrook,

2863
02:27:58,035 --> 02:28:00,655
the sign down at Meadowbrook, not the horse farm,

2864
02:28:00,835 --> 02:28:03,175
but the other one is externally lit.

2865
02:28:03,655 --> 02:28:04,655
That's a wooden sign.

2866
02:28:05,605 --> 02:28:07,015
It's rotted and,

2867
02:28:07,435 --> 02:28:11,735
but it is in the, in the 24 square foot size.

2868
02:28:13,245 --> 02:28:16,855
Many of the other signs that have been spoken of are,

2869
02:28:17,475 --> 02:28:18,775
are different variations.

2870
02:28:19,715 --> 02:28:23,645
You have a sign that is six tenths

2871
02:28:23,645 --> 02:28:28,325
of a mile away from this location and that sign is backlit

2872
02:28:28,825 --> 02:28:31,765
and it is I think 40 square feet in

2873
02:28:31,765 --> 02:28:34,125
size that I know of.

2874
02:28:34,125 --> 02:28:37,125
There was no permit issued for that, that sign at the time.

2875
02:28:38,265 --> 02:28:41,685
But I think you are starting to understand

2876
02:28:42,865 --> 02:28:47,245
in some perspective that the signs that have been presented

2877
02:28:47,465 --> 02:28:51,925
as a rational existence aren't quite

2878
02:28:52,725 --> 02:28:55,645
matching all the ordinances as they're depicted either.

2879
02:28:58,305 --> 02:28:59,365
So in that

2880
02:28:59,465 --> 02:29:03,685
and in that regard, also understanding what I've portrayed

2881
02:29:03,745 --> 02:29:06,685
to the other speaker, Mr.

2882
02:29:06,905 --> 02:29:11,645
Cardin, I would ask, whereas you are not a direct abutter,

2883
02:29:11,705 --> 02:29:14,005
how would you be agreed by this if the board

2884
02:29:15,775 --> 02:29:17,845
ruled favorably for the applicant?

2885
02:29:19,435 --> 02:29:22,445
Well, I do live pretty close to it,

2886
02:29:23,785 --> 02:29:26,005
but it would affect, it, it,

2887
02:29:26,025 --> 02:29:28,925
it already affects the neighborhood to be honest though.

2888
02:29:29,025 --> 02:29:33,765
In which way? It just,

2889
02:29:33,785 --> 02:29:37,245
the noise, the atmosphere in general is louder.

2890
02:29:37,245 --> 02:29:42,125
There's more traffic. There's, I feel like

2891
02:29:42,145 --> 02:29:45,405
by adding a sign of this type, it's just

2892
02:29:45,975 --> 02:29:48,005
would change the character even more.

2893
02:29:49,235 --> 02:29:51,805
Like right now it feels like a residential neighborhood,

2894
02:29:51,905 --> 02:29:56,645
but once you come across that sign, it's almost like you're,

2895
02:29:56,785 --> 02:29:58,765
you would think you're almost coming into an area

2896
02:29:58,855 --> 02:30:00,645
where it's more commercial.

2897
02:30:01,955 --> 02:30:04,365
Okay. It, it changes the vibe of the neighborhood.

2898
02:30:04,665 --> 02:30:05,845
I'm sorry, I don't know really how to

2899
02:30:06,275 --> 02:30:07,275
That.

2900
02:30:07,275 --> 02:30:08,725
So, you know, I think we've talked about that this is not

2901
02:30:09,525 --> 02:30:11,565
a quaint neighborhood.

2902
02:30:11,675 --> 02:30:15,485
It's a major th throughway right? Or passageway.

2903
02:30:16,445 --> 02:30:18,645
I think you've stated the five criteria

2904
02:30:18,665 --> 02:30:20,365
and how this doesn't comply,

2905
02:30:21,145 --> 02:30:23,765
but your, your position on this,

2906
02:30:24,425 --> 02:30:27,045
how you would be aggrieved is based on the fact

2907
02:30:27,045 --> 02:30:30,405
that it's agitated neighbors that doesn't fit

2908
02:30:31,025 --> 02:30:32,405
the five criteria either.

2909
02:30:33,635 --> 02:30:35,885
Well, it changes the character of the neighborhood.

2910
02:30:35,905 --> 02:30:39,645
That's, I'm not saying it agitates us. Okay. It's, it's,

2911
02:30:40,475 --> 02:30:41,965
It's, it's not responsible

2912
02:30:41,965 --> 02:30:43,565
for an increase in traffic either.

2913
02:30:43,575 --> 02:30:45,805
Right. We know that that's a busy road.

2914
02:30:45,985 --> 02:30:49,045
And Olson road intersection has been a,

2915
02:30:49,605 --> 02:30:51,045
a hazardous location as well,

2916
02:30:51,045 --> 02:30:52,045
Correct?

2917
02:30:52,045 --> 02:30:54,365
Well, his work trucks have definitely brought more

2918
02:30:55,035 --> 02:30:56,845
traffic to the intersection.

2919
02:30:57,485 --> 02:31:00,085
I, I see. Okay. So I'm sorry Mr.

2920
02:31:00,105 --> 02:31:02,525
Corbet, I, I said to myself the nursery. Okay, sorry.

2921
02:31:02,525 --> 02:31:07,285
Alright, got it. Anybody have any questions? Mr

2922
02:31:07,395 --> 02:31:08,395
Trip?

2923
02:31:08,395 --> 02:31:09,085
I, I guess I have a question.

2924
02:31:13,745 --> 02:31:15,365
Do you believe that he should be able

2925
02:31:15,365 --> 02:31:16,965
to operate in his business there?

2926
02:31:19,115 --> 02:31:20,605
Does that really matter In this case?

2927
02:31:20,615 --> 02:31:21,765
We're talking about the sign.

2928
02:31:22,625 --> 02:31:24,925
Say again? Does that really matter?

2929
02:31:24,945 --> 02:31:26,725
In this case, we're talking about the sign.

2930
02:31:28,315 --> 02:31:31,365
Well, I believe that

2931
02:31:34,245 --> 02:31:38,885
a business owner has a right to advertise

2932
02:31:39,785 --> 02:31:43,845
his location and his products. Yes. So if, if,

2933
02:31:44,025 --> 02:31:46,165
I'm not saying that he shouldn't have any sign,

2934
02:31:46,305 --> 02:31:49,485
I'm just saying the type of sign he has is not suited

2935
02:31:49,485 --> 02:31:50,605
for this area.

2936
02:31:50,995 --> 02:31:53,165
Okay. But can we go back to my question?

2937
02:31:53,225 --> 02:31:55,365
Do you think he should be allowed

2938
02:31:55,365 --> 02:31:56,645
to operate a business there?

2939
02:31:58,035 --> 02:31:59,605
It's a location he chose to be

2940
02:31:59,625 --> 02:32:01,405
and the planning board allowed it. So,

2941
02:32:02,025 --> 02:32:03,025
Say again?

2942
02:32:04,485 --> 02:32:05,485
I didn't hear you.

2943
02:32:06,885 --> 02:32:09,565
I said the planning board allowed it

2944
02:32:10,185 --> 02:32:11,245
and he chose to be there.

2945
02:32:12,195 --> 02:32:16,685
Well actually the planning board permitted

2946
02:32:17,525 --> 02:32:21,615
acknowledged that a nursing

2947
02:32:22,435 --> 02:32:26,495
is permitted by RSA, I don't remember what the number is.

2948
02:32:26,565 --> 02:32:27,775
Statute. Statute.

2949
02:32:28,475 --> 02:32:31,735
And the ordinances permitted

2950
02:32:32,975 --> 02:32:34,295
the operation of the school.

2951
02:32:34,955 --> 02:32:37,775
So it's not, it's not the planning board that

2952
02:32:38,645 --> 02:32:40,455
permitted those uses.

2953
02:32:41,115 --> 02:32:42,115
It was

2954
02:32:42,875 --> 02:32:44,175
By Right by right.

2955
02:32:44,435 --> 02:32:46,375
Yes. So, okay.

2956
02:32:46,555 --> 02:32:50,815
That's, so you think that he should have a right

2957
02:32:50,815 --> 02:32:52,455
to operate those businesses there?

2958
02:32:55,135 --> 02:32:56,935
I don't think they fit under the categories

2959
02:32:56,935 --> 02:32:58,095
that were listed, but

2960
02:32:58,515 --> 02:33:01,415
that's just my opinion. It's not a school.

2961
02:33:02,115 --> 02:33:03,455
Say Again? It's not a school.

2962
02:33:06,315 --> 02:33:07,615
The town believes it's a school.

2963
02:33:08,215 --> 02:33:12,115
Hmm. No, because,

2964
02:33:12,215 --> 02:33:13,315
And I would have to Disagree.

2965
02:33:13,535 --> 02:33:17,155
The thing with that I'm trying to get to is that

2966
02:33:18,495 --> 02:33:22,195
he is permitted to operate two businesses there.

2967
02:33:23,135 --> 02:33:26,675
One being the nursery and the other being the school.

2968
02:33:28,015 --> 02:33:32,755
You know, I, I believe he also should be permitted

2969
02:33:32,775 --> 02:33:36,755
to advertise his location and the products being offered.

2970
02:33:37,495 --> 02:33:39,955
You know, so,

2971
02:33:41,455 --> 02:33:45,835
but it, like I said, it goes back to Do you think

2972
02:33:45,835 --> 02:33:48,275
that he should be permitted to operate a business there?

2973
02:33:49,835 --> 02:33:51,595
I don't think it belongs in the neighborhood, no.

2974
02:33:52,465 --> 02:33:56,395
Okay. Thank you Mr. Dietzel. Any questions?

2975
02:33:57,135 --> 02:33:59,395
No, thank you Mr. Chair. Mr. Donlin?

2976
02:34:00,575 --> 02:34:04,275
No, thank you. Mr. Chair. You also Mr. Corbert? Yes.

2977
02:34:04,315 --> 02:34:06,075
I think Mr. Cloutier, sorry Ms.

2978
02:34:06,755 --> 02:34:11,315
Cloutier did a good job re reiterating on the signs

2979
02:34:11,315 --> 02:34:12,315
and the signs that'll fit in the

2980
02:34:12,315 --> 02:34:13,595
area. I thank you for the testimony.

2981
02:34:14,205 --> 02:34:18,165
Thank you. I also have another statement that I would like

2982
02:34:18,165 --> 02:34:19,925
to read if possible.

2983
02:34:19,995 --> 02:34:22,845
Okay. Is it poignant to this? Yes. Okay.

2984
02:34:23,075 --> 02:34:26,005
Alright. Members of the board, I would like

2985
02:34:26,005 --> 02:34:27,725
to briefly address something

2986
02:34:27,725 --> 02:34:29,685
that was discussed at our previous meeting.

2987
02:34:29,795 --> 02:34:33,365
That the variance request should be viewed as a use variance

2988
02:34:33,365 --> 02:34:34,725
and not an area variance.

2989
02:34:35,265 --> 02:34:38,965
My understanding that an area variance generally concerns

2990
02:34:38,965 --> 02:34:41,925
dimensional requirements such as size, height,

2991
02:34:42,285 --> 02:34:43,445
lighting, and replacement.

2992
02:34:43,695 --> 02:34:46,365
While a use variance concerns a use

2993
02:34:46,365 --> 02:34:50,085
of elsewise not permitted in this district, in either case,

2994
02:34:50,085 --> 02:34:52,525
however, the statutory variance

2995
02:34:53,045 --> 02:34:55,565
criteria still includes unnecessary hardship.

2996
02:34:56,365 --> 02:34:59,765
I recognize that the current application is different from

2997
02:34:59,765 --> 02:35:00,765
the prior one in

2998
02:35:00,765 --> 02:35:03,845
that the electronic message center has been removed

2999
02:35:04,185 --> 02:35:06,245
and the overall sign has been reduced.

3000
02:35:06,435 --> 02:35:10,405
However, the application still seeks relief from the

3001
02:35:10,405 --> 02:35:14,165
ordinance to obtain a non-conforming freestanding

3002
02:35:14,755 --> 02:35:15,845
illuminated sign

3003
02:35:15,845 --> 02:35:18,685
that would elsewise not be permitted at this location.

3004
02:35:19,585 --> 02:35:23,605
In addition, there was some discussion at the prior meeting

3005
02:35:23,795 --> 02:35:28,045
regarding whether the planning board may have created an ex

3006
02:35:28,635 --> 02:35:31,485
expectation that additional signage would be permitted.

3007
02:35:31,925 --> 02:35:34,525
I would like to clarify that I have a packet available

3008
02:35:35,025 --> 02:35:36,485
to distribute to the board,

3009
02:35:36,485 --> 02:35:38,645
which includes the relevant site plan.

3010
02:35:39,315 --> 02:35:42,085
That site plan outlines only the old church

3011
02:35:42,605 --> 02:35:43,845
existing sign at the property

3012
02:35:43,905 --> 02:35:46,165
and does not reflect any approval

3013
02:35:46,745 --> 02:35:50,045
or entitlement for additional signage beyond

3014
02:35:50,045 --> 02:35:52,085
what is currently permitted by ordinance.

3015
02:35:52,745 --> 02:35:54,245
It is also important to note

3016
02:35:54,245 --> 02:35:57,565
that Della hti has since been granted three building signs,

3017
02:35:57,685 --> 02:36:01,405
totaling four point no, 43.1 square feet.

3018
02:36:02,225 --> 02:36:03,325
And despite that approval,

3019
02:36:03,385 --> 02:36:06,525
the applicant is still seeking additional signage relief

3020
02:36:06,625 --> 02:36:09,125
beyond what has already been allowed.

3021
02:36:09,705 --> 02:36:14,365
The signage, despite no, the signage depicted in the

3022
02:36:14,885 --> 02:36:17,805
approval site plan shows the former church sign

3023
02:36:17,955 --> 02:36:20,925
approximately 10 feet by one foot in size

3024
02:36:21,025 --> 02:36:24,885
and two feet from the ground located approximately 42 feet

3025
02:36:24,915 --> 02:36:29,405
from the road, which is 32 feet further back from the

3026
02:36:30,035 --> 02:36:34,245
roadway than the pylon sign Del hti now has

3027
02:36:34,785 --> 02:36:38,565
in the prior litigation, the Superior Court

3028
02:36:39,725 --> 02:36:42,365
analyzed the hardship question as applied to this property.

3029
02:36:42,385 --> 02:36:44,765
The court reviewed whether the characteristics

3030
02:36:44,785 --> 02:36:47,765
of the land justified relief from the ordinance

3031
02:36:48,265 --> 02:36:52,005
and concluded that the hardship required, sorry,

3032
02:36:53,305 --> 02:36:54,845
and the, and concluded

3033
02:36:54,845 --> 02:36:57,005
that the hardship requirement had not been met

3034
02:36:57,155 --> 02:37:01,805
because the present requests still seeks variance relief

3035
02:37:01,945 --> 02:37:05,045
for a non-conforming sign at the same property.

3036
02:37:05,265 --> 02:37:07,925
It would seem that the court's prior hardship

3037
02:37:08,805 --> 02:37:12,805
analysis remains relevant to the board's con consideration,

3038
02:37:12,805 --> 02:37:15,325
even though the applicant has been modified

3039
02:37:15,465 --> 02:37:18,205
and is now being characterized differently.

3040
02:37:19,875 --> 02:37:23,005
Yeah. It's not your statement is it? No, it's not. No. No.

3041
02:37:23,265 --> 02:37:25,685
And all those points that you've just brought up have

3042
02:37:25,685 --> 02:37:27,525
already been discussed by the board

3043
02:37:27,585 --> 02:37:28,765
and reviewed by the board.

3044
02:37:29,145 --> 02:37:31,605
Did you print, did somebody, somebody must

3045
02:37:32,045 --> 02:37:33,045
provided that for you?

3046
02:37:33,985 --> 02:37:35,925
Yes. Yeah. Okay.

3047
02:37:37,485 --> 02:37:41,725
I do have the, the documents

3048
02:37:41,725 --> 02:37:43,205
that was brought up in that though.

3049
02:37:44,785 --> 02:37:45,805
Go ahead and accept it.

3050
02:37:46,005 --> 02:37:47,245
I, I think we have it, but

3051
02:37:50,355 --> 02:37:51,765
everybody on the board, Mr.

3052
02:37:51,845 --> 02:37:53,205
Dietzel, you have the site plan?

3053
02:37:53,805 --> 02:37:55,165
I have the site plan, Yeah, we do have,

3054
02:37:55,165 --> 02:37:56,005
we have the existing one,

3055
02:37:56,005 --> 02:37:57,885
but we can accept this one as well. Just to confirm,

3056
02:37:58,555 --> 02:37:59,555
Make a motion.

3057
02:38:00,115 --> 02:38:01,165
Make a motion to accept.

3058
02:38:01,745 --> 02:38:03,205
Second please. Second, Mr.

3059
02:38:03,455 --> 02:38:05,605
Golan, thank you for the record.

3060
02:38:05,735 --> 02:38:10,645
Board accepts mills of a duplicate site plan.

3061
02:38:11,955 --> 02:38:14,045
Okay. Anything else Ms. Clu? No, that

3062
02:38:14,045 --> 02:38:15,045
Is all.

3063
02:38:15,045 --> 02:38:16,885
Thank you. You're all set? Yep. Okay, thank you.

3064
02:38:21,235 --> 02:38:23,485
Anybody else? Thank you. Rebuttal.

3065
02:38:24,195 --> 02:38:28,325
This was second or rebuttal for Abutters

3066
02:38:28,425 --> 02:38:32,005
or I think we heard everybody that had indicated they wanted

3067
02:38:32,005 --> 02:38:33,325
to speak at the last meeting.

3068
02:38:34,485 --> 02:38:36,925
I think counsel had somebody you were

3069
02:38:36,925 --> 02:38:38,405
gesturing you wanted to speak.

3070
02:38:38,905 --> 02:38:42,485
But before is, is he a direct abutter? No.

3071
02:38:42,505 --> 02:38:46,925
What's the element of his your by his, the, the basis

3072
02:38:46,985 --> 02:38:51,205
of his testimony is. Okay.

3073
02:38:51,865 --> 02:38:53,965
Mr. Chair, prior to this, Mike, can I call Mr.

3074
02:38:53,965 --> 02:38:55,805
Davison back up? I would just like to clarify.

3075
02:39:05,695 --> 02:39:07,125
Could you Go back? Sorry.

3076
02:39:07,585 --> 02:39:09,245
Do you have to say his name again or are we good?

3077
02:39:09,505 --> 02:39:11,085
No, I think you called him up.

3078
02:39:11,085 --> 02:39:12,285
You made his name know. Could you

3079
02:39:12,285 --> 02:39:13,405
Go back to, you asked the question

3080
02:39:13,405 --> 02:39:14,525
before you were asking about the coaches,

3081
02:39:14,625 --> 02:39:16,125
you were asking about business interests.

3082
02:39:16,125 --> 02:39:19,485
So I just wanna clarify, are you asking if I have any type

3083
02:39:19,485 --> 02:39:21,125
of business interest or partnership

3084
02:39:21,225 --> 02:39:22,645
or have I used the facility?

3085
02:39:23,465 --> 02:39:24,805
Use the facility? Yes.

3086
02:39:24,925 --> 02:39:27,045
I have taken this onto to the facility in December.

3087
02:39:27,365 --> 02:39:29,325
I paid for an hour to use the batting cage with them.

3088
02:39:30,585 --> 02:39:33,845
And then Gary Diamond, I believe rented it

3089
02:39:33,865 --> 02:39:35,725
to do a middle school bootcamp

3090
02:39:36,225 --> 02:39:38,125
and they asked, the league asked me

3091
02:39:38,125 --> 02:39:38,965
to help out on the second

3092
02:39:38,965 --> 02:39:40,085
night 'cause they didn't have enough coaches.

3093
02:39:41,145 --> 02:39:43,165
But there was nothing that exchanged anything with me

3094
02:39:43,405 --> 02:39:45,685
or that I dealt with anyone within NEA other

3095
02:39:45,685 --> 02:39:46,845
than checking in with my son.

3096
02:39:47,305 --> 02:39:49,445
But I just wanted to clarify that so that it didn't,

3097
02:39:50,125 --> 02:39:51,725
I didn't misrepresent anything.

3098
02:39:52,985 --> 02:39:54,925
So if you have any follow up questions, I'm happy to answer,

3099
02:39:54,945 --> 02:39:56,085
but just wanted to make sure

3100
02:39:56,085 --> 02:39:58,125
that I understood the question before.

3101
02:39:58,535 --> 02:39:59,445
Would that being said,

3102
02:40:04,395 --> 02:40:07,885
does that feel to anybody that there's,

3103
02:40:07,995 --> 02:40:09,445
that maybe Mr.

3104
02:40:09,665 --> 02:40:11,485
Corbet should recuse himself from this?

3105
02:40:14,605 --> 02:40:16,925
I don't see a pecuniary interest. Mr.

3106
02:40:17,315 --> 02:40:19,445
Corbett could define it more to the board.

3107
02:40:19,465 --> 02:40:20,805
The board can vote on it.

3108
02:40:21,045 --> 02:40:23,085
I can tell you I haven't used the facility,

3109
02:40:23,465 --> 02:40:25,845
but I've heard the facility advertised on the radio.

3110
02:40:27,065 --> 02:40:28,245
So I know it's purpose.

3111
02:40:28,485 --> 02:40:32,565
I know what it's doing for the, the town or, or people.

3112
02:40:32,885 --> 02:40:34,885
I haven't talked to anybody relative to this.

3113
02:40:36,465 --> 02:40:39,525
So I I'm not seeing a conflict in it.

3114
02:40:41,155 --> 02:40:45,735
He's not a regular participant there from what I can hear.

3115
02:40:45,955 --> 02:40:49,735
And he's certainly not getting any free services there. No,

3116
02:40:49,975 --> 02:40:50,975
I did not.

3117
02:40:51,095 --> 02:40:52,935
I can Add, and if I,

3118
02:40:52,935 --> 02:40:54,735
before Ms. Martin speaks, if I may, my,

3119
02:40:55,595 --> 02:40:58,375
my take on it would be similar to when Sam

3120
02:40:58,375 --> 02:41:01,095
and Lena Patel were at the same property.

3121
02:41:01,155 --> 02:41:03,375
And I typically eat at East Area Cavern often

3122
02:41:03,435 --> 02:41:05,735
as a resident in town and I still voted against them.

3123
02:41:05,755 --> 02:41:08,855
So I don't think that utilizing a use in town

3124
02:41:09,355 --> 02:41:11,775
as a resident necessarily makes you biased.

3125
02:41:12,035 --> 02:41:13,415
But I am happy to hear from the

3126
02:41:13,415 --> 02:41:15,255
board and defer to the board. Okay.

3127
02:41:15,575 --> 02:41:19,455
I wanna say on, I'm a youth coach but not for baseball.

3128
02:41:20,195 --> 02:41:23,695
And there's many times that my kids have gone places

3129
02:41:23,875 --> 02:41:26,775
and to make him tell his kid no would

3130
02:41:26,775 --> 02:41:28,135
not be fair whatsoever.

3131
02:41:28,515 --> 02:41:32,055
You know, if all his buddies are going, they shouldn't have

3132
02:41:32,055 --> 02:41:34,255
to reap anything here.

3133
02:41:34,495 --> 02:41:36,735
'cause like myself, I've been here since the nineties.

3134
02:41:36,875 --> 02:41:38,935
If I had to sit back on every case

3135
02:41:38,935 --> 02:41:42,335
that I might know somebody, I wouldn't be able to be here.

3136
02:41:42,845 --> 02:41:44,215
Fair enough. I thought I had

3137
02:41:44,215 --> 02:41:45,295
a fair question though too. No,

3138
02:41:45,895 --> 02:41:46,895
Absolutely no.

3139
02:41:46,895 --> 02:41:47,735
That's why his kids' not good at, that's why I wanted

3140
02:41:47,735 --> 02:41:49,975
to call you back that he, there was a reason we were in

3141
02:41:49,975 --> 02:41:51,055
there, but that's why I wanted to call

3142
02:41:51,055 --> 02:41:52,215
back up and make sure that I

3143
02:41:52,775 --> 02:41:53,775
Reiterated that.

3144
02:41:53,775 --> 02:41:54,055
Thanks for clarifying.

3145
02:41:55,795 --> 02:41:58,295
May I ask you a question, Mr. Trip? I thank you.

3146
02:41:58,775 --> 02:42:02,855
I I, in your original testimony, you, you made

3147
02:42:03,895 --> 02:42:05,255
a comment about the sign.

3148
02:42:05,275 --> 02:42:07,055
You said it was oversized, it was

3149
02:42:08,325 --> 02:42:11,215
backlit verification methods, brightness,

3150
02:42:12,325 --> 02:42:15,175
when Mrs.

3151
02:42:15,485 --> 02:42:17,575
Moji, I think that's the name, name, Cloutier

3152
02:42:17,645 --> 02:42:18,645
What?

3153
02:42:18,645 --> 02:42:19,975
Ms. Guttier. Ms. Cloutier.

3154
02:42:20,175 --> 02:42:22,175
Cloutier. Alright. Sorry.

3155
02:42:22,475 --> 02:42:25,135
She, she made some comments that

3156
02:42:26,365 --> 02:42:28,095
made me wanna ask you a question.

3157
02:42:28,285 --> 02:42:32,495
Sure. Alright. You had,

3158
02:42:32,715 --> 02:42:34,575
in your original testimony you said

3159
02:42:34,575 --> 02:42:37,905
that it was an oversized sign, right?

3160
02:42:38,445 --> 02:42:41,905
Do you, do you believe that's an oversized sign?

3161
02:42:42,945 --> 02:42:44,505
I believe it does not fit the character

3162
02:42:44,505 --> 02:42:47,345
of the neighborhood and is oversized for our neighborhood.

3163
02:42:47,445 --> 02:42:48,445
Yes.

3164
02:42:48,725 --> 02:42:51,185
In what manner is it oversized

3165
02:42:51,845 --> 02:42:53,705
In the manner that it's larger than

3166
02:42:53,705 --> 02:42:55,865
what this board would permit on a normal basis?

3167
02:42:59,725 --> 02:43:01,505
Height and girth, as I recall,

3168
02:43:02,405 --> 02:43:06,985
Height girth is, yeah, it's a large, large sign.

3169
02:43:07,315 --> 02:43:08,665
Right? 16 foot tall.

3170
02:43:09,495 --> 02:43:12,205
Okay. Okay. And do you,

3171
02:43:12,625 --> 02:43:14,125
Do you Consider 50 square feet,

3172
02:43:14,215 --> 02:43:16,005
65 square feet at one point?

3173
02:43:16,195 --> 02:43:20,285
It's a large sign about the same size

3174
02:43:20,285 --> 02:43:21,365
of that screen right there.

3175
02:43:24,105 --> 02:43:26,285
Say again? It's close to the size

3176
02:43:26,285 --> 02:43:27,325
of that screen right there.

3177
02:43:30,825 --> 02:43:33,885
If you turn it on, its this, if you turned it,

3178
02:43:33,885 --> 02:43:36,365
that's probably, maybe even smaller than

3179
02:43:36,365 --> 02:43:37,925
what the sign actually is.

3180
02:43:40,745 --> 02:43:43,765
So it's a large sign. And then on a large pole,

3181
02:43:44,505 --> 02:43:48,405
The, the current sign, each of those cabinets,

3182
02:43:48,495 --> 02:43:51,245
those two cabinets, they're both 25 square feet,

3183
02:43:52,925 --> 02:43:57,325
I think measures out to, if you go the full five foot high,

3184
02:43:58,015 --> 02:44:02,125
60 inches high, the width of that cabinet is two

3185
02:44:02,125 --> 02:44:06,365
and a half inches wider for each lint each foot up.

3186
02:44:07,165 --> 02:44:11,125
I can't really say if it's the size of that sign that screen

3187
02:44:11,125 --> 02:44:12,845
behind me or not, but wide

3188
02:44:12,845 --> 02:44:15,165
Then I'd need a tape measure to be okay.

3189
02:44:15,305 --> 02:44:17,685
As accurate. But it feels like

3190
02:44:19,245 --> 02:44:20,405
a large sign, right?

3191
02:44:20,595 --> 02:44:22,005
Yeah, I think I, I get your point.

3192
02:44:22,285 --> 02:44:23,645
I have a follow up Mr. Trip.

3193
02:44:24,245 --> 02:44:28,445
I you, you know, there's two businesses there.

3194
02:44:29,885 --> 02:44:31,325
I know there's two businesses there.

3195
02:44:31,605 --> 02:44:33,045
I opposed both businesses,

3196
02:44:33,045 --> 02:44:35,485
but I had no way to oppose both businesses.

3197
02:44:36,195 --> 02:44:38,285
Okay. So I oppose the businesses period.

3198
02:44:38,395 --> 02:44:42,965
Okay. I, I believe that the owner

3199
02:44:43,905 --> 02:44:47,365
is allowed to have a sign for each business.

3200
02:44:47,705 --> 02:44:49,805
So if he had five businesses there,

3201
02:44:49,805 --> 02:44:50,925
he could have five signs.

3202
02:44:52,505 --> 02:44:55,005
If he had 10 businesses there, he could have 10 signs

3203
02:44:57,305 --> 02:44:59,565
or a hundred signs if he had a hundred businesses there.

3204
02:44:59,685 --> 02:45:00,765
I guess where does that stop?

3205
02:45:01,275 --> 02:45:04,205
Yeah, I like, I like the idea of a hundred businesses.

3206
02:45:04,755 --> 02:45:08,925
Well, I think I'm done. I'm, this is full crying loud.

3207
02:45:08,925 --> 02:45:10,125
You're being silly so I can be silly.

3208
02:45:10,345 --> 02:45:11,805
No, I'm not being silly. Alright,

3209
02:45:11,935 --> 02:45:14,445
Let's, let's clarify for the record.

3210
02:45:14,785 --> 02:45:16,925
All right, Mr. Trip, are you all set for right now? I

3211
02:45:16,925 --> 02:45:17,925
Am set.

3212
02:45:17,925 --> 02:45:20,805
And I think to the, the point, Mr. This

3213
02:45:20,925 --> 02:45:22,725
Is how, why people get incited

3214
02:45:22,925 --> 02:45:26,325
'cause crazy questions come up and it's, it's frustrating.

3215
02:45:26,795 --> 02:45:27,965
Well, I'm trying to get back to

3216
02:45:27,965 --> 02:45:29,885
Understood. I'm just telling you my point.

3217
02:45:29,885 --> 02:45:30,965
Your you're right there asking and,

3218
02:45:30,965 --> 02:45:32,285
and kind of clarify for Mr.

3219
02:45:32,415 --> 02:45:36,365
Tripp. I think he's passionate about having more commercial

3220
02:45:36,365 --> 02:45:40,085
development in town, not necessarily where it doesn't,

3221
02:45:40,175 --> 02:45:41,405
where it doesn't fit.

3222
02:45:41,405 --> 02:45:45,725
Well, I think we can agree that because of statute

3223
02:45:46,105 --> 02:45:48,565
and ordinance, the, this is an,

3224
02:45:48,635 --> 02:45:51,845
this certainly was an odd fit that someone would come

3225
02:45:51,845 --> 02:45:53,525
and open up a, a baseball school

3226
02:45:53,705 --> 02:45:55,925
and a nursery all in the same location.

3227
02:45:56,305 --> 02:45:59,165
But it's the perfect storm for, for

3228
02:45:59,315 --> 02:46:00,805
what has has occurred here.

3229
02:46:01,625 --> 02:46:05,685
And I think that there's, I said it at the last meeting,

3230
02:46:05,685 --> 02:46:06,685
there's this perception

3231
02:46:06,685 --> 02:46:08,445
that there was already a decision made.

3232
02:46:08,745 --> 02:46:11,565
We hear that in the tone and the comments that are made.

3233
02:46:11,905 --> 02:46:14,685
Not only that, but you know, a statement that says

3234
02:46:14,685 --> 02:46:16,765
that there's a conspiracy.

3235
02:46:17,065 --> 02:46:18,925
And we heard that last year too.

3236
02:46:20,045 --> 02:46:23,765
I think to your question, if it was a hundred businesses,

3237
02:46:23,955 --> 02:46:27,125
what would be, what would be appropriate?

3238
02:46:27,125 --> 02:46:30,085
Would it be a hundred signs? Well, possibly.

3239
02:46:30,225 --> 02:46:35,005
So, however, the, the design of something of

3240
02:46:35,005 --> 02:46:38,325
that matter would not be in this location.

3241
02:46:38,785 --> 02:46:42,245
The odds of two businesses fitting in this one location

3242
02:46:42,245 --> 02:46:44,725
that would be approved one by statute

3243
02:46:44,915 --> 02:46:48,125
that the town has no say over is unusual

3244
02:46:48,685 --> 02:46:49,765
a hundred businesses in

3245
02:46:49,765 --> 02:46:52,965
that one location would not be permitted at all

3246
02:46:53,355 --> 02:46:56,485
because there's not that many businesses that would be by.

3247
02:46:56,485 --> 02:47:00,365
Right. And in that regard, there's other signed designs

3248
02:47:00,365 --> 02:47:03,805
that this board might have purview over to correct that

3249
02:47:05,315 --> 02:47:07,365
even if it were a hundred businesses in the

3250
02:47:07,365 --> 02:47:08,565
one location. Okay.

3251
02:47:08,575 --> 02:47:10,845
Maybe I was. So I think we've clarified all of that

3252
02:47:11,065 --> 02:47:14,725
and, and I understand that Mr.

3253
02:47:14,835 --> 02:47:17,485
Trip has some levity to, you know, his response

3254
02:47:17,585 --> 02:47:18,725
and back and forth.

3255
02:47:19,585 --> 02:47:21,985
I think I've clarified that aspect of it.

3256
02:47:22,085 --> 02:47:23,385
The a hundred signs and

3257
02:47:23,385 --> 02:47:26,385
that the board's discretion is still lingering

3258
02:47:26,565 --> 02:47:27,665
as to where this goes.

3259
02:47:29,325 --> 02:47:32,865
Yes, you have. Okay. Feels to me that Mr.

3260
02:47:32,955 --> 02:47:35,745
Tripp has made a decision already though, just

3261
02:47:36,765 --> 02:47:40,225
and back to your point where predetermined it feels that way

3262
02:47:40,225 --> 02:47:43,425
because it feels like he's on, the questions

3263
02:47:43,425 --> 02:47:45,705
that he's asking are on the side

3264
02:47:45,725 --> 02:47:47,145
of the business being there.

3265
02:47:47,205 --> 02:47:50,625
He wants more commercial, he wants signs. He's saying it.

3266
02:47:50,625 --> 02:47:52,985
You're saying that that's what he's thinking. So I sound

3267
02:47:52,985 --> 02:47:54,945
Predetermined, but I think the discretion is

3268
02:47:54,945 --> 02:47:58,145
that we understand that the, the, the perfect storm

3269
02:47:58,165 --> 02:47:59,505
of a hundred businesses

3270
02:47:59,505 --> 02:48:02,825
or 50 businesses fitting in this location are, are very odd.

3271
02:48:02,825 --> 02:48:05,105
Okay. So he's being a little facetious. I think

3272
02:48:06,185 --> 02:48:09,945
Possibly, I'm just trying to clarify that these

3273
02:48:10,505 --> 02:48:11,905
businesses are permitted.

3274
02:48:12,615 --> 02:48:13,665
It's a permitted use.

3275
02:48:14,805 --> 02:48:18,385
You, the businesses came in under, you know what,

3276
02:48:18,425 --> 02:48:19,705
I don't want to go down this road.

3277
02:48:19,705 --> 02:48:20,985
That, that's fine because it's, I'm gonna get

3278
02:48:20,985 --> 02:48:22,265
****** it. Alright.

3279
02:48:22,745 --> 02:48:24,065
I remember your point. I, I'll

3280
02:48:24,215 --> 02:48:25,505
They came in undercover.

3281
02:48:26,005 --> 02:48:28,545
I'm not happy about it to begin with. They're there.

3282
02:48:29,855 --> 02:48:31,965
Let's move on if I may, let's move on. I mean, Mr.

3283
02:48:31,965 --> 02:48:33,965
Mr I don't know why I have to revisit this. Yeah,

3284
02:48:33,965 --> 02:48:34,965
Sure.

3285
02:48:34,965 --> 02:48:35,805
He made it very clear at the original meeting

3286
02:48:36,025 --> 02:48:38,685
and we as the board made it very clear it was not within our

3287
02:48:38,685 --> 02:48:39,685
purview to hear it.

3288
02:48:39,705 --> 02:48:41,645
So I, to Mr. Davidson's point, I don't,

3289
02:48:41,705 --> 02:48:43,245
we should not be going back and forth at that point

3290
02:48:43,245 --> 02:48:44,245
Right now. I'm all set.

3291
02:48:44,275 --> 02:48:46,045
Okay. Thank you. Alright.

3292
02:48:46,545 --> 02:48:49,005
We had one Abutter who wanted to give his,

3293
02:48:49,395 --> 02:48:50,725
he's not spoken before.

3294
02:48:51,065 --> 02:48:52,325
I'm gonna give that latitude

3295
02:48:52,325 --> 02:48:53,845
and then give the attorneys back up.

3296
02:48:53,845 --> 02:48:58,765
We're going to, we're gonna take a motion on the 26 dash one

3297
02:48:58,765 --> 02:49:01,445
12 to po to table the next meeting.

3298
02:49:01,875 --> 02:49:05,845
That motion. Very good. Second, seconded by Mr. Donlin.

3299
02:49:06,505 --> 02:49:08,805
Mr. Molton, I do know you're in the room,

3300
02:49:08,865 --> 02:49:10,845
but we're not going to get to you tonight.

3301
02:49:11,615 --> 02:49:14,725
We'll reschedule you for the next meeting,

3302
02:49:14,815 --> 02:49:15,845
which you will be.

3303
02:49:16,785 --> 02:49:18,485
God help us so we can get through this.

3304
02:49:18,715 --> 02:49:21,565
This case, you should be first on the agenda. Okay.

3305
02:49:22,105 --> 02:49:25,165
All in favor of that, of tabling that case.

3306
02:49:25,165 --> 02:49:29,765
26 1 12 to the next meeting. Say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed?

3307
02:49:30,195 --> 02:49:34,645
Very good. Thank you Mr. Molton hearing from one, one last.

3308
02:49:34,755 --> 02:49:35,755
Abutter.

3309
02:49:36,745 --> 02:49:41,405
Is there two? Good evening.

3310
02:49:42,395 --> 02:49:45,045
Good evening. Ben Mitchell, three Belmont Terrace.

3311
02:49:45,985 --> 02:49:49,125
Are you a direct to abut Not a direct toBut?

3312
02:49:49,555 --> 02:49:50,725
There's three. Three what?

3313
02:49:50,935 --> 02:49:52,525
Three Belmont Terrace, thank you.

3314
02:49:52,895 --> 02:49:54,805
About a third of mile down the road.

3315
02:49:55,195 --> 02:49:58,365
Okay. I just wanted to state that

3316
02:49:59,165 --> 02:50:02,285
I don't really understand the whole value,

3317
02:50:02,805 --> 02:50:04,805
property value conversation.

3318
02:50:04,865 --> 02:50:08,685
And part of this about the sign I drive by that

3319
02:50:09,195 --> 02:50:10,845
sign probably multiple times a day,

3320
02:50:12,135 --> 02:50:13,405
never had an issue with it.

3321
02:50:14,315 --> 02:50:17,445
Certainly have not had as big of an issue with it as the

3322
02:50:18,315 --> 02:50:21,205
look of the dilapidated church that was there

3323
02:50:21,305 --> 02:50:22,765
for years prior.

3324
02:50:25,185 --> 02:50:29,885
The, the look of dumpsters in the front yard of

3325
02:50:30,405 --> 02:50:34,445
abutters to the property that we're talking about don't seem

3326
02:50:34,445 --> 02:50:36,645
to be an issue to the property values of the abutters.

3327
02:50:36,745 --> 02:50:40,005
But this beautiful new sign seems to,

3328
02:50:40,885 --> 02:50:42,005
it doesn't make much sense to me.

3329
02:50:43,285 --> 02:50:44,645
I agree with Mr. Tripp.

3330
02:50:44,765 --> 02:50:49,445
I mean, as far as the commercial growth of the town,

3331
02:50:49,465 --> 02:50:51,325
as a, as a taxpayer, I support that.

3332
02:50:52,345 --> 02:50:54,485
And especially a business like this

3333
02:50:55,435 --> 02:50:57,885
that serves the youth of the community.

3334
02:50:59,715 --> 02:51:00,845
Okay. Very good.

3335
02:51:02,055 --> 02:51:06,405
Thank you very much, counsel.

3336
02:51:06,465 --> 02:51:07,605
You are welcome back up.

3337
02:51:08,695 --> 02:51:10,965
We're gonna try and get you done. Yes.

3338
02:51:11,195 --> 02:51:14,925
Okay. And we hope to be very brief, Mr. Chair.

3339
02:51:14,945 --> 02:51:16,685
And thank you to the Honorable Board again

3340
02:51:16,825 --> 02:51:20,525
for one last opportunity to speak for the record.

3341
02:51:20,585 --> 02:51:21,645
My name is Chris Drescher.

3342
02:51:21,645 --> 02:51:23,885
I'm an attorney with Kron Bis and Zelensky outta Manchester.

3343
02:51:23,985 --> 02:51:26,325
And I am the counsel for the applicant,

3344
02:51:27,875 --> 02:51:29,525
Byrd Enterprises, LLC.

3345
02:51:30,165 --> 02:51:32,045
I just wanted to take this opportunity to make two very

3346
02:51:32,045 --> 02:51:34,645
brief points At the last hearing.

3347
02:51:35,625 --> 02:51:36,765
We had some discussion

3348
02:51:36,765 --> 02:51:38,965
with Member Corbitt about a potentially

3349
02:51:40,085 --> 02:51:41,885
shrinking, bringing the sign down.

3350
02:51:43,105 --> 02:51:44,925
We looked into that. We are able to do that

3351
02:51:44,945 --> 02:51:49,525
and are willing to do that, to lose four feet

3352
02:51:50,585 --> 02:51:52,005
off the height of that sign.

3353
02:51:52,185 --> 02:51:53,725
So if you were to approve this,

3354
02:51:54,435 --> 02:51:57,445
we'd be perfectly fine having that as a, as a condition.

3355
02:51:58,585 --> 02:51:59,805
And lastly, I just wanted to say,

3356
02:51:59,865 --> 02:52:02,405
I'm just gonna say I'll defer to my testimony,

3357
02:52:02,545 --> 02:52:04,725
to our pleadings, to everything we've already put in the

3358
02:52:04,725 --> 02:52:06,525
record so we don't have to belabor the point

3359
02:52:06,555 --> 02:52:07,765
much more into this evening.

3360
02:52:08,665 --> 02:52:11,605
But one, one point I made back in April that seems

3361
02:52:11,605 --> 02:52:12,685
to have been lost since then,

3362
02:52:12,705 --> 02:52:14,485
at least from the testimony I've been listening to

3363
02:52:14,485 --> 02:52:16,565
for the past two hearings, is the hardship criteria,

3364
02:52:16,925 --> 02:52:18,525
specifically the special conditions that speak

3365
02:52:18,525 --> 02:52:20,845
to the land itself.

3366
02:52:22,465 --> 02:52:24,525
Now, when I read the Superior Court case,

3367
02:52:24,525 --> 02:52:29,365
what Judge K class said is that the special condition

3368
02:52:29,365 --> 02:52:30,925
that was presented to him was just

3369
02:52:30,925 --> 02:52:32,205
that everything was pushed back

3370
02:52:32,705 --> 02:52:34,165
and that didn't cut it for him.

3371
02:52:34,165 --> 02:52:37,005
However, what I presented back in April when I came to you

3372
02:52:37,005 --> 02:52:39,325
and what was never presented back in the original case,

3373
02:52:39,655 --> 02:52:41,925
which I think absolutely does, is,

3374
02:52:42,165 --> 02:52:44,005
and I'm gonna hold up a tax map here.

3375
02:52:44,005 --> 02:52:46,285
You have a tax map. It's already in your application,

3376
02:52:46,285 --> 02:52:48,205
so we don't need to go through the motions to submit it.

3377
02:52:48,225 --> 02:52:50,085
I'm just gonna hold it up here. But this is

3378
02:52:50,085 --> 02:52:51,205
the largest lot in the area.

3379
02:52:52,155 --> 02:52:53,445
It's bigger than all the others.

3380
02:52:54,185 --> 02:52:55,965
And that is why back in April I

3381
02:52:55,965 --> 02:52:57,125
brought up the Harborside case.

3382
02:52:57,365 --> 02:52:58,525
'cause I, I think Mr. Jerry,

3383
02:52:58,725 --> 02:52:59,965
I know you're familiar with that case.

3384
02:52:59,985 --> 02:53:03,565
And in that case, the sort of nut nutshell I'm taking from

3385
02:53:03,565 --> 02:53:07,565
that is that in that case, the, the Supreme Court said that

3386
02:53:08,245 --> 02:53:11,485
hardship, at least with a respect to special condition,

3387
02:53:11,495 --> 02:53:15,325
could be the size of the hotel that was in that case

3388
02:53:16,405 --> 02:53:17,845
because they needed a bigger sign

3389
02:53:17,845 --> 02:53:19,685
because they had a bigger hotel.

3390
02:53:19,985 --> 02:53:21,445
And that was a special condition.

3391
02:53:21,445 --> 02:53:23,805
And that was one of the bigger takeaways from that case.

3392
02:53:23,825 --> 02:53:24,925
Not the only takeaway of course,

3393
02:53:24,925 --> 02:53:26,085
but one of the major takeaways.

3394
02:53:26,085 --> 02:53:28,725
And I think that is analogous to this situation here.

3395
02:53:29,105 --> 02:53:30,525
We have the largest lot in the area

3396
02:53:30,905 --> 02:53:32,365
and that you haven't allowed use.

3397
02:53:32,685 --> 02:53:34,765
I also heard something about use variances versus

3398
02:53:34,765 --> 02:53:35,845
dimensional variances.

3399
02:53:35,845 --> 02:53:36,885
Not that that matters anymore,

3400
02:53:36,885 --> 02:53:38,605
but if we were talking about dimensions,

3401
02:53:38,685 --> 02:53:39,685
I just gave you the dimensions.

3402
02:53:39,685 --> 02:53:41,405
If we're talking about use, the use is allowed.

3403
02:53:41,835 --> 02:53:43,285
He's got a commercial use, he's entitled

3404
02:53:43,305 --> 02:53:44,685
to a, a sign for his business.

3405
02:53:45,945 --> 02:53:47,445
And that was really all I wanted

3406
02:53:47,465 --> 02:53:51,525
to have my last word be applicant's here.

3407
02:53:51,525 --> 02:53:53,365
If you got any more questions and oh,

3408
02:53:53,365 --> 02:53:54,925
and we'll also reduce the light

3409
02:53:54,945 --> 02:53:57,245
by 25% is what you're saying to me. Okay.

3410
02:53:57,245 --> 02:53:59,925
So I found that out that you can LED lights, it was,

3411
02:54:00,585 --> 02:54:01,965
the question was brought up last time.

3412
02:54:01,985 --> 02:54:04,045
Are you able to turn down the brightness on those signs?

3413
02:54:04,125 --> 02:54:07,005
I reached out to my sign company on three different fronts

3414
02:54:07,005 --> 02:54:08,205
that were brought up last time.

3415
02:54:09,165 --> 02:54:11,445
I heard this board loud and clear last time when we spoke

3416
02:54:11,445 --> 02:54:14,165
about, you know, turning down the volume, trying

3417
02:54:14,165 --> 02:54:16,085
to get this back under, under wraps.

3418
02:54:16,565 --> 02:54:20,045
I believe that every time I've spoken to you, spoken

3419
02:54:20,045 --> 02:54:22,925
to you over the course of, I think we're in five meetings.

3420
02:54:22,925 --> 02:54:25,805
I've been respectful. I've come up, I've spoken in a manner

3421
02:54:25,805 --> 02:54:28,445
that I haven't, I've tried to be professional and so forth.

3422
02:54:28,605 --> 02:54:32,365
I will say tonight I'm very offended. I'm, I'm very upset.

3423
02:54:33,395 --> 02:54:34,725
I've sat here and been dragged

3424
02:54:34,725 --> 02:54:36,205
through the mud for five meetings.

3425
02:54:36,555 --> 02:54:37,685
I've been told that I've lied.

3426
02:54:37,755 --> 02:54:39,085
I've been told that I haven't done things.

3427
02:54:39,355 --> 02:54:40,885
I've been told that I shouldn't be there.

3428
02:54:40,915 --> 02:54:44,525
I've been told pretty much that they, that that my

3429
02:54:44,525 --> 02:54:45,525
Existence, Not,

3430
02:54:45,525 --> 02:54:46,645
Not by the Board, but not by the board.

3431
02:54:46,705 --> 02:54:47,765
No, no, no. I'm sorry. Thank you.

3432
02:54:48,195 --> 02:54:49,565
Very clear by the abutters.

3433
02:54:49,665 --> 02:54:52,365
And, and there's been so many falsities made

3434
02:54:52,705 --> 02:54:54,565
and so many inaccuracies made.

3435
02:54:55,025 --> 02:54:56,445
I'm very, very upset at this point.

3436
02:54:56,725 --> 02:54:59,325
I do not want to go through every inaccuracy with this board

3437
02:54:59,685 --> 02:55:03,765
because this has been a painful process for myself and you

3438
02:55:04,225 --> 02:55:07,445
and my business and my customers and everyone.

3439
02:55:07,445 --> 02:55:09,525
But about three people that love this place.

3440
02:55:10,155 --> 02:55:12,685
Love my sign, love what I've done. Love that.

3441
02:55:12,685 --> 02:55:14,805
I've brought up two businesses to this town.

3442
02:55:15,035 --> 02:55:17,485
Love that I'm working with the youth love that I have a,

3443
02:55:17,565 --> 02:55:19,405
a garden center, but but three

3444
02:55:19,405 --> 02:55:22,405
or four families that consistently drag me through the mud.

3445
02:55:23,045 --> 02:55:24,085
I am not that person.

3446
02:55:24,965 --> 02:55:27,045
I have brought, I have spent a ton of money here.

3447
02:55:27,325 --> 02:55:29,525
I have never said once that my hardship is money.

3448
02:55:29,825 --> 02:55:32,765
Not one time, but I've said I I've been told, I did.

3449
02:55:33,355 --> 02:55:36,165
I've been told that I've ignored knocking on doors,

3450
02:55:36,235 --> 02:55:37,325
I've ignored messages.

3451
02:55:37,325 --> 02:55:39,525
I've ignored these things. That has not happened.

3452
02:55:40,405 --> 02:55:43,205
I have not locked myself in a closet when someone's come

3453
02:55:43,205 --> 02:55:47,405
to my door, you can ask Ms. Owen, I came to her on my own

3454
02:55:47,465 --> 02:55:50,005
to tell her what I was doing with the sign to,

3455
02:55:50,025 --> 02:55:51,565
to tell her what the process was.

3456
02:55:52,045 --> 02:55:54,405
I said I would shut the lights off. I shut the lights off.

3457
02:55:54,805 --> 02:55:56,325
I don't have to shut the lights off in the building.

3458
02:55:57,085 --> 02:55:59,365
I can leave 'em on 24 hours a day if I would like to.

3459
02:55:59,705 --> 02:56:02,445
But I shut 'em off. I also shut off the lights

3460
02:56:02,715 --> 02:56:04,645
that have been in the air for 27 years

3461
02:56:04,915 --> 02:56:06,205
that no one had a problem with.

3462
02:56:06,305 --> 02:56:08,445
I'm sure it's not on the record for 27 years,

3463
02:56:08,505 --> 02:56:10,845
no one said one word until I moved in.

3464
02:56:11,105 --> 02:56:12,205
Now I put up the lights

3465
02:56:12,205 --> 02:56:13,725
that have been referenced as an airport.

3466
02:56:14,565 --> 02:56:15,845
I didn't put those lights up.

3467
02:56:16,155 --> 02:56:19,045
They were preexisting that they had no issues with zero.

3468
02:56:19,115 --> 02:56:22,285
They have a problem with me in that, that that the ordinance

3469
02:56:22,285 --> 02:56:25,765
that they lived in, that they moved to before this,

3470
02:56:25,785 --> 02:56:28,285
before this happened allows this use.

3471
02:56:28,955 --> 02:56:32,045
That is not my fault. That is not your fault.

3472
02:56:34,705 --> 02:56:38,485
It is allowed Simply it is allowed.

3473
02:56:38,925 --> 02:56:40,925
I am not gonna go up and down Hampstead Road

3474
02:56:40,925 --> 02:56:42,765
and call out every business that is out

3475
02:56:42,765 --> 02:56:43,885
of compliance with their signs.

3476
02:56:43,905 --> 02:56:46,445
But there's plenty, there's plenty. Mr.

3477
02:56:46,495 --> 02:56:47,805
Tripp made a comment last time

3478
02:56:47,805 --> 02:56:50,685
that he hadn't noticed any backlit signs in the area.

3479
02:56:50,815 --> 02:56:52,925
There are, there's several.

3480
02:56:53,515 --> 02:56:55,605
There's one at the other end of the road. Yes.

3481
02:56:55,635 --> 02:56:58,645
It's out of town by 50 feet next to another abutter.

3482
02:56:58,795 --> 02:57:01,405
That, that, that the, that that I believe Mr.

3483
02:57:01,405 --> 02:57:04,045
Rosie brought up a sign off. Okay.

3484
02:57:04,145 --> 02:57:06,125
You can see it from the Abutter. So yes.

3485
02:57:06,125 --> 02:57:08,005
It might be another sign. Backlit sign.

3486
02:57:08,095 --> 02:57:09,325
Electronic read aboard.

3487
02:57:09,995 --> 02:57:13,165
Same road less than five minutes away.

3488
02:57:13,555 --> 02:57:16,125
Calvary Christian Church has a backlit sign.

3489
02:57:17,075 --> 02:57:20,125
Doesn't mean they turn it on. They have a backlit sign.

3490
02:57:21,065 --> 02:57:23,805
Can flip it on tonight if they'd like with a reader board,

3491
02:57:23,945 --> 02:57:25,685
not electronic with a reader board.

3492
02:57:26,375 --> 02:57:29,545
Okay. Down the street as you go into the historic district,

3493
02:57:29,905 --> 02:57:31,505
district, there is a reader board.

3494
02:57:31,505 --> 02:57:34,025
There's a backlit sign on the church across the street also

3495
02:57:34,045 --> 02:57:35,945
has, you know, a backlit sign.

3496
02:57:37,895 --> 02:57:40,435
I'm not do, I'm not asking for anything that is out

3497
02:57:40,435 --> 02:57:41,635
of character of the neighborhood.

3498
02:57:41,945 --> 02:57:42,875
I've increased the value

3499
02:57:42,875 --> 02:57:43,995
of the character of the neighborhood.

3500
02:57:44,165 --> 02:57:45,395
There are dumpsters in the front

3501
02:57:45,395 --> 02:57:46,675
yards of people's homes on that road.

3502
02:57:46,685 --> 02:57:47,875
Commercial dumpsters.

3503
02:57:52,155 --> 02:57:54,935
I'm sorry, Excuse me. Sorry to interrupt. Mr.

3504
02:57:54,935 --> 02:57:57,455
Chair duty time. May I motion to extend?

3505
02:57:59,075 --> 02:58:00,495
Oh, 15, 15 minutes please.

3506
02:58:01,305 --> 02:58:04,085
Second please. I'll second. Thank you Ms. Moore. Sorry.

3507
02:58:04,085 --> 02:58:05,405
Back. Say hi

3508
02:58:06,495 --> 02:58:07,495
Chair.

3509
02:58:07,495 --> 02:58:08,405
I may interrupt. I apologize.

3510
02:58:08,885 --> 02:58:10,165
We have one case still pending.

3511
02:58:10,565 --> 02:58:12,085
I don't know if you wanna table that as well.

3512
02:58:13,425 --> 02:58:15,285
You had the molten case and there's

3513
02:58:15,285 --> 02:58:16,845
There's another One after further

3514
02:58:16,845 --> 02:58:17,965
case. Yes. I'm sorry. Yeah.

3515
02:58:17,965 --> 02:58:19,885
26 1 13. Thank you. You're welcome.

3516
02:58:21,395 --> 02:58:26,285
Case 26. Shane. 26, 1 13 you said. Correct. Yep.

3517
02:58:26,565 --> 02:58:28,565
Motion to table to the next meeting

3518
02:58:28,565 --> 02:58:29,565
Please.

3519
02:58:29,565 --> 02:58:30,525
I'll make a motion table case 26 dash

3520
02:58:30,585 --> 02:58:31,965
one 13 to our next meeting.

3521
02:58:32,265 --> 02:58:34,445
Second please. Second Mr. Trip. Second.

3522
02:58:34,585 --> 02:58:37,645
All in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed?

3523
02:58:37,855 --> 02:58:38,855
Sorry folks.

3524
02:58:40,865 --> 02:58:43,605
And, and I think what I'll just say I'm off of that,

3525
02:58:44,065 --> 02:58:48,685
you know, I think some of my clients'

3526
02:58:49,445 --> 02:58:51,045
frustration probably also stems from the fact that,

3527
02:58:51,045 --> 02:58:53,045
you know, we've come here, we've been making these

3528
02:58:53,045 --> 02:58:55,965
concessions, will shrink the sign will make it lower,

3529
02:58:56,035 --> 02:58:58,565
make it smaller, we'll make the lights go off, we'll make,

3530
02:58:58,595 --> 02:58:59,605
make 'em less bright.

3531
02:59:00,665 --> 02:59:02,165
And I, and I just hope

3532
02:59:02,165 --> 02:59:04,165
that doesn't fall on deaf ears that we have done that.

3533
02:59:04,995 --> 02:59:09,765
What is, I think we are looking at the lighting.

3534
02:59:09,835 --> 02:59:11,885
That becomes a big issue, right?

3535
02:59:12,595 --> 02:59:15,685
Yeah. A que So a question that I would have for you guys,

3536
02:59:16,335 --> 02:59:20,725
would you consider breaking up the motion one for a sign

3537
02:59:20,865 --> 02:59:22,285
and then one regarding the lights

3538
02:59:23,585 --> 02:59:25,565
rather than just one motion altogether?

3539
02:59:27,185 --> 02:59:28,805
Is that something that you'd be willing to, I'd have to

3540
02:59:28,855 --> 02:59:29,925
Refer to you on that. I, I,

3541
02:59:30,305 --> 02:59:32,205
So, so I guess could,

3542
02:59:32,205 --> 02:59:33,245
could you make me understand a little more

3543
02:59:33,365 --> 02:59:34,845
member, like, so two motions,

3544
02:59:34,845 --> 02:59:36,725
What I would think is two motions, one that would allow,

3545
02:59:37,105 --> 02:59:40,085
or one that would vote on the sign the size

3546
02:59:40,085 --> 02:59:42,765
of the sign and the area.

3547
02:59:43,345 --> 02:59:46,325
One that would allow for either the backlit

3548
02:59:46,325 --> 02:59:49,885
or external lights or any type of lighting towards the sign

3549
02:59:50,985 --> 02:59:54,445
rather than just one variance that ties everything together.

3550
02:59:54,705 --> 02:59:57,925
So before you, before you get into that, I I i,

3551
02:59:58,085 --> 03:00:00,205
I was on a little bit of a tangent and I apologize for that.

3552
03:00:00,325 --> 03:00:02,005
I didn't do that. I think you can understand why.

3553
03:00:02,235 --> 03:00:04,045
Hold on a second. This is not retaliatory.

3554
03:00:04,315 --> 03:00:06,845
It's breaking down what you're hearing for testimony.

3555
03:00:07,235 --> 03:00:10,165
Nope, I understand. And understanding your frustration

3556
03:00:10,625 --> 03:00:11,685
and from Mr.

3557
03:00:11,875 --> 03:00:15,605
Corbett's perspective, if you break the two apart,

3558
03:00:16,945 --> 03:00:20,005
it doesn't necessarily, both could be challenged if

3559
03:00:20,005 --> 03:00:22,725
that's the course of the abutters,

3560
03:00:22,745 --> 03:00:24,485
but they could be challenged separately.

3561
03:00:24,635 --> 03:00:27,485
They, they may accept some adjustments that you've made

3562
03:00:27,705 --> 03:00:29,925
and challenge a separate part,

3563
03:00:30,105 --> 03:00:31,105
Cor Correct.

3564
03:00:31,105 --> 03:00:32,885
The, the one, the one concern I have,

3565
03:00:33,065 --> 03:00:36,925
and this is something you brought up originally,

3566
03:00:36,945 --> 03:00:39,285
and I think in context that you brought it up, Mr.

3567
03:00:39,355 --> 03:00:42,845
Corbett was, I think you were looking for an example.

3568
03:00:42,945 --> 03:00:44,845
And I have a better example after talking to that.

3569
03:00:44,845 --> 03:00:45,845
So I've done my research

3570
03:00:46,095 --> 03:00:48,845
after each one of these meetings, I spoke to my electrician,

3571
03:00:48,845 --> 03:00:51,165
east Coast Electrical Corporation, big company,

3572
03:00:51,165 --> 03:00:53,205
Massachusetts does a bunch of commercial work,

3573
03:00:53,205 --> 03:00:54,325
does a bunch of residential work.

3574
03:00:54,915 --> 03:00:58,405
They no longer in most towns are allowed to, to install

3575
03:01:00,125 --> 03:01:02,205
external lighting on signs in areas.

3576
03:01:02,345 --> 03:01:04,965
And the reason for it is, is lawn maintenance.

3577
03:01:05,275 --> 03:01:07,285
Lawn maintenance goes around, they hit the signs

3578
03:01:07,305 --> 03:01:11,325
and they turn the, they turn the floodlights into the road.

3579
03:01:13,795 --> 03:01:15,005
They just won't, they're not even

3580
03:01:15,005 --> 03:01:16,085
allowed in a lot of town now.

3581
03:01:16,105 --> 03:01:19,245
So now I'm left with, with, you know, little

3582
03:01:19,305 --> 03:01:20,485
or no lighting down.

3583
03:01:20,485 --> 03:01:22,245
Lit signs have been down.

3584
03:01:22,245 --> 03:01:24,445
Lit signs are, are, have been out in several towns

3585
03:01:24,445 --> 03:01:26,245
for years too, because the same thing, the angle

3586
03:01:26,265 --> 03:01:28,285
of the lights project into people's eyes.

3587
03:01:28,505 --> 03:01:30,085
So backlit signs in, in,

3588
03:01:30,105 --> 03:01:32,165
in East coast Electrical corporation, which has been around

3589
03:01:32,165 --> 03:01:35,685
for many years doing a lot of this is the most, the,

3590
03:01:35,865 --> 03:01:39,445
the best in and safest way to backlit signs.

3591
03:01:39,465 --> 03:01:42,845
And that's why I said I called my sign company, I was able

3592
03:01:42,845 --> 03:01:45,685
to, they said I can reduce the sign by 25% in height

3593
03:01:45,875 --> 03:01:47,205
that brings it down four feet.

3594
03:01:47,805 --> 03:01:50,365
I can reduce the illuminations by 25%.

3595
03:01:51,925 --> 03:01:55,885
I took, the gentleman asked about the, the down lighting on,

3596
03:01:56,105 --> 03:01:59,125
on the top, which is the LEDI removed that.

3597
03:02:01,245 --> 03:02:03,845
I think the concessions I've brought here did exactly

3598
03:02:03,875 --> 03:02:07,005
what this board asked of, of this case before.

3599
03:02:07,025 --> 03:02:10,965
And that's to come to a resolution, try to have a,

3600
03:02:10,965 --> 03:02:13,605
have some sort of a give and take turn down the temperature.

3601
03:02:13,605 --> 03:02:16,285
To some extent, I believe I've done all of that.

3602
03:02:16,305 --> 03:02:19,885
And yet I still am being, you know, berated is just simply,

3603
03:02:19,915 --> 03:02:20,965
they don't want anything there.

3604
03:02:21,025 --> 03:02:22,845
So whatever I come back with for a sign,

3605
03:02:22,865 --> 03:02:24,045
I'm gonna be doing the same process.

3606
03:02:24,635 --> 03:02:27,485
They might disagree, but that is the case.

3607
03:02:27,585 --> 03:02:30,005
So I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm asking for,

3608
03:02:30,105 --> 03:02:32,965
and we can certainly, clarity is one.

3609
03:02:34,365 --> 03:02:38,125
I also have no problem if this board wishes again

3610
03:02:38,305 --> 03:02:39,525
to turn down temperature.

3611
03:02:40,185 --> 03:02:41,365
As of right now, I'm allowed

3612
03:02:41,365 --> 03:02:43,285
to keep my building signs on all, all night.

3613
03:02:44,085 --> 03:02:46,165
I still am allowed to have those, the flood lights go off.

3614
03:02:46,365 --> 03:02:48,245
Although I said in the meeting, I can turn them off.

3615
03:02:48,245 --> 03:02:51,005
I'll turn them off. They're, they're, they're there

3616
03:02:51,005 --> 03:02:53,685
and allowed, I mean, they've been there for 27 years.

3617
03:02:53,685 --> 03:02:55,085
They're part of the original approval.

3618
03:02:55,825 --> 03:02:58,245
But I'm happy to make a concession to that as well

3619
03:02:59,805 --> 03:03:01,055
upon pro upon approval.

3620
03:03:01,695 --> 03:03:03,575
I would happy to have the, the lights on the building

3621
03:03:03,635 --> 03:03:04,695
go off at a certain time.

3622
03:03:04,835 --> 03:03:06,615
I'm happy to never turn the floodlights on.

3623
03:03:07,075 --> 03:03:10,215
I'm happy to have my sign go off at the hours.

3624
03:03:10,315 --> 03:03:13,295
We talked about last time off at nine o'clock on a dusk,

3625
03:03:13,575 --> 03:03:15,855
I explained the method that on, on a,

3626
03:03:15,875 --> 03:03:18,495
on a dusk explained the method that can happen last time.

3627
03:03:19,295 --> 03:03:21,095
I can reduce it by 25% height.

3628
03:03:21,215 --> 03:03:24,975
I can reduce the, the, the illumination by 25%.

3629
03:03:25,175 --> 03:03:26,535
I will take the lights off of the top.

3630
03:03:28,295 --> 03:03:29,295
I think I've made a lot of

3631
03:03:29,295 --> 03:03:30,695
concessions to try to make this work.

3632
03:03:31,215 --> 03:03:32,895
I I I don't, I'm not trying to Yep.

3633
03:03:33,035 --> 03:03:34,695
Get you to break down and I don't think that's

3634
03:03:34,695 --> 03:03:36,335
Yeah, no, I wasn't even getting to your point.

3635
03:03:36,535 --> 03:03:38,455
I was just getting done what I needed to get done. Yeah.

3636
03:03:38,455 --> 03:03:41,375
But I think, I think that you, you hear the testimony

3637
03:03:41,595 --> 03:03:45,015
and we're trying to work through something that we can see

3638
03:03:45,655 --> 03:03:47,335
perhaps a road ahead

3639
03:03:47,395 --> 03:03:51,895
and given opportunity that addresses your concerns as well

3640
03:03:51,895 --> 03:03:54,495
as the abutters and that people, you know,

3641
03:03:54,545 --> 03:03:56,935
leave here in an uncontested.

3642
03:03:57,465 --> 03:03:59,125
And I believe I'm doing that by offering this,

3643
03:03:59,125 --> 03:04:01,005
have the signage on the buildings off at a time. Do that.

3644
03:04:01,005 --> 03:04:03,965
Yep. But I have some questions that I want to ask. Sure.

3645
03:04:04,325 --> 03:04:06,245
Relative to your concessions as well,

3646
03:04:07,005 --> 03:04:09,045
because I wanna make sure that they make sense.

3647
03:04:09,845 --> 03:04:11,325
And so what you're suggesting is

3648
03:04:11,325 --> 03:04:14,605
that you would lower this from approximately 16 feet down

3649
03:04:14,625 --> 03:04:16,125
to 12 feet at the top.

3650
03:04:16,125 --> 03:04:18,965
Correct. But that brings your, the lowest sign.

3651
03:04:19,305 --> 03:04:21,645
And, and by the way, the board still has

3652
03:04:21,645 --> 03:04:25,045
to deliberate about these signs and their sizes

3653
03:04:25,225 --> 03:04:27,485
and how they are structured.

3654
03:04:27,485 --> 03:04:29,645
Right. And so there's a lot of,

3655
03:04:29,975 --> 03:04:32,765
let's just say spit balling going on here to try

3656
03:04:32,785 --> 03:04:34,845
and figure out what works

3657
03:04:35,185 --> 03:04:37,045
and that there's no,

3658
03:04:39,465 --> 03:04:41,085
no regrets later.

3659
03:04:41,135 --> 03:04:42,525
Right. On all parties.

3660
03:04:42,785 --> 03:04:44,365
And essentially you are dealing

3661
03:04:44,395 --> 03:04:46,725
with three parties right now yourselves,

3662
03:04:47,185 --> 03:04:48,485
the abutters in the town.

3663
03:04:49,265 --> 03:04:53,605
And so in that regard, by drop dropping this down four feet,

3664
03:04:53,635 --> 03:04:56,245
that lower cabinet ends up two feet off the ground.

3665
03:04:58,785 --> 03:05:01,125
And is that where you want that cabinet to be?

3666
03:05:01,585 --> 03:05:04,005
And so I'm, where I'm going with this is one

3667
03:05:04,005 --> 03:05:06,405
of the abutters talked about a parallel,

3668
03:05:06,805 --> 03:05:10,005
a horizontal alignment of the cabinets, which

3669
03:05:10,675 --> 03:05:12,445
puts them at an equal height,

3670
03:05:13,345 --> 03:05:14,885
may bring it down a little lower.

3671
03:05:15,465 --> 03:05:18,645
But the question that we, that we come to also is

3672
03:05:18,995 --> 03:05:20,125
that your lighting

3673
03:05:20,305 --> 03:05:23,405
and your need for it going towards the hardship is more

3674
03:05:23,405 --> 03:05:24,565
about the baseball camp.

3675
03:05:25,185 --> 03:05:29,605
And, and that you have, you have a patrons

3676
03:05:29,605 --> 03:05:31,725
that are more likely to be there in the evening

3677
03:05:31,825 --> 03:05:34,885
and that's where that hardship starts to play in.

3678
03:05:34,885 --> 03:05:37,965
Right. You need them to be able to see the location.

3679
03:05:38,705 --> 03:05:43,365
And so in this regard, if you, if you had

3680
03:05:43,365 --> 03:05:45,925
to do a trade off, right, and,

3681
03:05:46,025 --> 03:05:48,645
and honestly, do you need the lights on at dusk

3682
03:05:48,645 --> 03:05:50,765
because everybody's gonna see that sign?

3683
03:05:51,865 --> 03:05:54,325
No. When they're going by in the daylight, right? No.

3684
03:05:55,385 --> 03:05:57,325
Or at at dawn or whatever, right?

3685
03:05:57,565 --> 03:06:00,125
I mean you at some point you're, you No,

3686
03:06:00,125 --> 03:06:01,285
I never have it on in the morning. No.

3687
03:06:01,435 --> 03:06:03,605
Okay. And so, so I get that right.

3688
03:06:04,025 --> 03:06:08,765
And but I think before you follow this full concession

3689
03:06:08,765 --> 03:06:11,165
and the board still needs to deliberate about this,

3690
03:06:11,645 --> 03:06:12,925
I would think about that cabinet

3691
03:06:12,985 --> 03:06:14,365
that's two feet off the ground.

3692
03:06:14,785 --> 03:06:16,045
And if you can do the cabinet

3693
03:06:16,145 --> 03:06:19,045
that's two feet off the ground, perhaps you need to

3694
03:06:19,985 --> 03:06:22,285
put them both at that horizontal

3695
03:06:22,585 --> 03:06:25,445
or bring them up four feet off the ground

3696
03:06:25,465 --> 03:06:26,605
and make 'em horizontal.

3697
03:06:26,835 --> 03:06:28,885
Well the, the, when the

3698
03:06:29,425 --> 03:06:31,725
reader board was initially installed

3699
03:06:32,305 --> 03:06:34,685
and was on the, the bottom of those cabinets,

3700
03:06:35,025 --> 03:06:36,085
it was three by five.

3701
03:06:37,025 --> 03:06:40,125
So it hung below those cabinets three feet. Yep.

3702
03:06:40,465 --> 03:06:42,645
I'm suggesting we go down four feet. Yep.

3703
03:06:42,645 --> 03:06:44,365
When it was down three feet, it was fine.

3704
03:06:44,625 --> 03:06:46,565
It was three feet off the ground and it was no problem.

3705
03:06:48,425 --> 03:06:50,885
So I'm, I'm okay with the two feet.

3706
03:06:51,005 --> 03:06:53,325
I mean, would I prefer it to be a foot higher? Yes, I would.

3707
03:06:53,405 --> 03:06:54,605
I think it'd be more proportional.

3708
03:06:54,885 --> 03:06:57,405
I think it'll look right, but it,

3709
03:06:57,515 --> 03:06:58,805
I've already got a reference point

3710
03:06:58,805 --> 03:07:00,045
because that cabinet was there

3711
03:07:00,045 --> 03:07:02,285
with the reader board that wasn't turned on.

3712
03:07:02,285 --> 03:07:04,245
So I, I know where the bottom was,

3713
03:07:04,305 --> 03:07:06,245
so I'm not, I'm not gonna be shocked by that.

3714
03:07:06,245 --> 03:07:07,245
Put it that way. I'm not.

3715
03:07:08,425 --> 03:07:11,685
So is it more advantageous for two signs to be side

3716
03:07:11,745 --> 03:07:14,165
by side at a certain height off the ground?

3717
03:07:14,845 --> 03:07:15,965
I, I, I don't think so.

3718
03:07:15,965 --> 03:07:19,285
The whole reason why I, the sign was designed this way

3719
03:07:19,305 --> 03:07:20,485
by the, by the sign company.

3720
03:07:20,485 --> 03:07:21,485
We put a lot of thought in this

3721
03:07:21,885 --> 03:07:23,525
because of how busy Hampstead Road is.

3722
03:07:23,585 --> 03:07:25,285
Yep. In in top to bottom.

3723
03:07:25,285 --> 03:07:26,285
People are coming down the road

3724
03:07:26,345 --> 03:07:27,485
and you see the sign that way.

3725
03:07:27,485 --> 03:07:30,325
Yeah. That, that was so, so to be quite honest,

3726
03:07:30,565 --> 03:07:34,565
a sign going, you know, in the other direction is, is not

3727
03:07:35,625 --> 03:07:36,765
not ideal by any means.

3728
03:07:36,865 --> 03:07:38,245
You feel it would have to catch the attention

3729
03:07:38,325 --> 03:07:39,325
A different way.

3730
03:07:39,325 --> 03:07:42,445
Exactly. It's, it's sort of when it's when you have it,

3731
03:07:43,185 --> 03:07:46,085
you know, situated on the road this way the dr it's easier

3732
03:07:46,085 --> 03:07:48,005
for the driver to see where you turn it to, to the road.

3733
03:07:48,005 --> 03:07:49,085
It's more, you know, really

3734
03:07:49,755 --> 03:07:51,245
Just, just as one last point about

3735
03:07:51,245 --> 03:07:52,405
that it's been brought up in

3736
03:07:52,465 --> 03:07:53,565
and it's, it's kind

3737
03:07:53,565 --> 03:07:55,965
of been just labeled at this point, I guess in this room.

3738
03:07:56,225 --> 03:07:57,285
I'm not saying by the board,

3739
03:07:57,385 --> 03:08:00,965
but it's actually been, been communicated back to,

3740
03:08:01,025 --> 03:08:04,285
in questions to the, to the, the abutters.

3741
03:08:04,425 --> 03:08:06,485
The oversized sign. The oversized sign.

3742
03:08:06,905 --> 03:08:07,925
I'm here for variance.

3743
03:08:10,105 --> 03:08:11,765
That's, that's to the eyes of the beholder.

3744
03:08:11,765 --> 03:08:14,445
What the oversight sign is. Mr. Ro came up here.

3745
03:08:14,565 --> 03:08:16,885
I wish he, I, you know, this is the problem

3746
03:08:16,885 --> 03:08:18,245
with the extension of the meetings.

3747
03:08:18,625 --> 03:08:22,445
I'm supposed to be now speaking to images, I don't have,

3748
03:08:24,605 --> 03:08:26,605
I can only guess what those pictures were.

3749
03:08:26,805 --> 03:08:28,285
'cause he doesn't have here. Yeah,

3750
03:08:28,685 --> 03:08:29,685
I think they're the same photos

3751
03:08:29,715 --> 03:08:31,005
that he brought in the prior to

3752
03:08:31,005 --> 03:08:32,005
There.

3753
03:08:32,005 --> 03:08:33,245
I just have to remember Right. I can't see everyone.

3754
03:08:33,275 --> 03:08:34,925
What I do know on those, those photos

3755
03:08:35,035 --> 03:08:38,365
that every business on there closed at, closed before dark

3756
03:08:39,145 --> 03:08:40,845
and everyone was a nursery garden center.

3757
03:08:41,625 --> 03:08:43,805
So we're not comparing apples to apples there.

3758
03:08:43,945 --> 03:08:47,205
The other thing is that I think is, is unique

3759
03:08:47,205 --> 03:08:48,685
and the board should understand this

3760
03:08:49,155 --> 03:08:51,325
because you're trying to listen to both sides of this,

3761
03:08:51,325 --> 03:08:53,125
to the app, to the abutters as well.

3762
03:08:53,125 --> 03:08:57,205
Mr. Rose did a, did a nice sign formation

3763
03:08:57,265 --> 03:08:59,725
and he said, you know, this is a nice three by six sign.

3764
03:09:01,955 --> 03:09:04,325
Fortunately for myself in today's technology,

3765
03:09:04,955 --> 03:09:07,085
what was in front of that sign was a hay bale

3766
03:09:07,985 --> 03:09:09,285
was a what Was a hay bale.

3767
03:09:09,385 --> 03:09:10,525
Oh. When he did the design, I

3768
03:09:10,525 --> 03:09:11,525
Thought you said hate mail.

3769
03:09:12,025 --> 03:09:13,285
No, it might have been some hate mail too.

3770
03:09:13,865 --> 03:09:18,325
But a hay bale, you being able to use AI and so forth.

3771
03:09:18,385 --> 03:09:21,285
Now the sign he showed you was nine feet long

3772
03:09:21,985 --> 03:09:23,965
and in almost five feet,

3773
03:09:23,995 --> 03:09:27,045
five feet tall based on the size of a hay bale.

3774
03:09:27,385 --> 03:09:29,485
So when you measure it out, what he showed,

3775
03:09:29,545 --> 03:09:32,245
and everyone here, all the abutters thought it looked great,

3776
03:09:33,065 --> 03:09:34,365
is actually the same size,

3777
03:09:34,585 --> 03:09:36,725
almost the same size in in square footage

3778
03:09:36,745 --> 03:09:37,805
as the sign I'm presenting.

3779
03:09:38,505 --> 03:09:40,805
And they thought it was cabinet. Yep. Okay.

3780
03:09:41,545 --> 03:09:44,605
Got it. Okay. Yep. So it just, it might've,

3781
03:09:44,605 --> 03:09:46,965
might've said it was smaller, but it didn't show that way.

3782
03:09:46,985 --> 03:09:48,325
And everyone seemed to feel as though

3783
03:09:48,325 --> 03:09:49,765
that size was, was nice.

3784
03:09:50,365 --> 03:09:51,685
Fortunately it was a hay bale air.

3785
03:09:51,685 --> 03:09:54,125
So I know a hay bale is 35 inches long by,

3786
03:09:54,385 --> 03:09:55,485
by 18 inches tall.

3787
03:09:55,505 --> 03:09:56,965
So you can go and start doing it out.

3788
03:09:56,965 --> 03:09:58,365
So you can see that. Alright,

3789
03:09:58,665 --> 03:10:00,725
So your concession is that the,

3790
03:10:00,835 --> 03:10:04,605
that the externally lit signs on the building would be,

3791
03:10:04,975 --> 03:10:07,485
would follow the lighting if

3792
03:10:07,995 --> 03:10:10,645
this could get approved?

3793
03:10:11,625 --> 03:10:13,405
Is that what you're saying to us?

3794
03:10:13,995 --> 03:10:16,565
Yeah, and if I may, and correct me if I speak outta turn

3795
03:10:16,585 --> 03:10:18,845
Jay, but I think with, with two motions,

3796
03:10:18,885 --> 03:10:20,965
I don't have a problem with the two motions I think though.

3797
03:10:20,985 --> 03:10:23,285
But if, when it comes to the lighting, we've heard,

3798
03:10:23,285 --> 03:10:24,725
you've heard 'em, we'll make concessions,

3799
03:10:24,725 --> 03:10:26,445
we'll put the timer on it, they'll turn off,

3800
03:10:26,455 --> 03:10:28,525
we'll make it less bright, et cetera.

3801
03:10:29,345 --> 03:10:32,685
But, but as opposed to internal versus external, I think

3802
03:10:32,865 --> 03:10:35,045
that's just a whole different thing.

3803
03:10:35,745 --> 03:10:37,245
And, and I think, and,

3804
03:10:37,245 --> 03:10:39,245
and I think you've, you've heard it from the applicant

3805
03:10:39,245 --> 03:10:42,405
that I don't think we're we're, we're pro external

3806
03:10:42,585 --> 03:10:44,165
or you know, probably external lighting.

3807
03:10:44,225 --> 03:10:46,525
So that, that, that would probably be the, the line

3808
03:10:46,525 --> 03:10:49,125
that we'd have to draw, so to speak.

3809
03:10:49,465 --> 03:10:52,325
And your, your timeline on when

3810
03:10:52,325 --> 03:10:54,885
that light would be shut off would be, so if, if I were,

3811
03:10:54,965 --> 03:10:56,765
I think you indicated you had some kind of fancy

3812
03:10:56,835 --> 03:10:59,365
Control that Yeah, it's just new technology, right?

3813
03:10:59,665 --> 03:11:03,085
So it can be set at a time to go on, like you said,

3814
03:11:03,085 --> 03:11:04,245
do I need it on at dusk?

3815
03:11:04,785 --> 03:11:08,325
No, but that's the way a timer can work. I get it. Okay.

3816
03:11:08,485 --> 03:11:10,525
So I can set a time, but I'd have to change it all the time.

3817
03:11:11,835 --> 03:11:13,405
Potentially. It might even have

3818
03:11:13,405 --> 03:11:14,525
something in there that you can do.

3819
03:11:14,525 --> 03:11:16,285
You know, there's so much technology now. And

3820
03:11:16,285 --> 03:11:17,885
Then, sorry to interrupt, just to confirm,

3821
03:11:18,085 --> 03:11:19,285
'cause again, the bots at my work

3822
03:11:19,285 --> 03:11:22,165
or the band of my existence, you can manually override this.

3823
03:11:22,345 --> 03:11:23,965
Oh yeah, yeah. It's

3824
03:11:23,965 --> 03:11:26,605
Literally a switch and it would go off at nine o'clock.

3825
03:11:26,835 --> 03:11:28,245
Yeah. If I recall, we, we,

3826
03:11:28,385 --> 03:11:32,125
we submitted some material last time we were here about the

3827
03:11:32,125 --> 03:11:34,525
technology that the, the timers can go on.

3828
03:11:35,385 --> 03:11:37,205
And I think the, the idea was basic.

3829
03:11:37,235 --> 03:11:41,885
Yeah, it goes off at nine, you know, goes on

3830
03:11:41,905 --> 03:11:42,925
as it gets dark out.

3831
03:11:43,505 --> 03:11:45,725
And then when you average it out throughout the year,

3832
03:11:45,745 --> 03:11:47,485
it actually would only average out

3833
03:11:47,485 --> 03:11:49,765
to two hours a day. I think it was

3834
03:11:50,025 --> 03:11:50,925
Two hours and five minutes maybe

3835
03:11:50,945 --> 03:11:51,845
or something. You'd have five hours

3836
03:11:51,995 --> 03:11:52,995
Have to look.

3837
03:11:52,995 --> 03:11:54,445
We submitted those in those attachments

3838
03:11:54,445 --> 03:11:56,685
that we put in last meeting.

3839
03:11:57,785 --> 03:11:59,885
So obviously during the winter on a little longer

3840
03:11:59,885 --> 03:12:01,965
during the summer on a little shorter.

3841
03:12:02,205 --> 03:12:04,205
I mean, it's coming up to the time, it won't go on at all.

3842
03:12:04,345 --> 03:12:06,245
But do you need both cabinets lit?

3843
03:12:10,765 --> 03:12:14,365
I think I would think so, yeah. Just for the, for the

3844
03:12:14,645 --> 03:12:15,845
Advertising, I think just for the, yeah,

3845
03:12:15,905 --> 03:12:16,905
Mr.

3846
03:12:16,905 --> 03:12:17,805
Chairman, I opine on that as a board member.

3847
03:12:18,125 --> 03:12:23,045
I, I would not understand why I would

3848
03:12:23,825 --> 03:12:26,725
see an application with two signs and only one of them lit.

3849
03:12:26,965 --> 03:12:29,045
I would, I would think that would, yeah, I,

3850
03:12:29,685 --> 03:12:31,045
I dunno why we'd ever look into

3851
03:12:31,045 --> 03:12:32,125
something like that in general.

3852
03:12:32,125 --> 03:12:34,165
Like that would Yeah, to Crystal's point,

3853
03:12:34,165 --> 03:12:35,525
it would just look decrepit.

3854
03:12:35,755 --> 03:12:38,325
Well, you would have to prove that in the five criteria

3855
03:12:38,795 --> 03:12:40,685
That I felt a look decrepit. And

3856
03:12:40,685 --> 03:12:42,965
So, so I mean we, we, you know, we're, we're not speaking

3857
03:12:42,965 --> 03:12:46,285
to the fact we're using, we're using the, the, the fact

3858
03:12:46,285 --> 03:12:49,405
that the baseball facility is open at, at later time,

3859
03:12:49,465 --> 03:12:50,685
but I do sell Christmas trees.

3860
03:12:51,405 --> 03:12:54,085
I, you know, we, we do open later

3861
03:12:54,105 --> 03:12:55,645
for the nursery at times of year.

3862
03:12:55,745 --> 03:12:57,845
So now I'd have to say, well, okay,

3863
03:12:57,865 --> 03:13:01,245
but I really want it from November to 15th to this time

3864
03:13:01,245 --> 03:13:03,725
to be on, because that's when we sell Christmas trees

3865
03:13:03,745 --> 03:13:04,805
in the, this time of year.

3866
03:13:05,155 --> 03:13:09,245
Okay. Yeah. I I would just think it would be on, it's

3867
03:13:09,805 --> 03:13:10,805
Relative to the board's decision.

3868
03:13:10,805 --> 03:13:12,445
Yep. And it and, and what

3869
03:13:12,445 --> 03:13:14,085
We, and I would think it would be a better look

3870
03:13:14,085 --> 03:13:15,445
for the surrounding area to calf.

3871
03:13:15,445 --> 03:13:17,085
Just both on, it just looked normal to me.

3872
03:13:18,675 --> 03:13:22,005
Okay. Anything else? I have a question. Mr.

3873
03:13:22,035 --> 03:13:24,805
Trip. The signs

3874
03:13:24,875 --> 03:13:28,285
that you have on the buildings, they are lit?

3875
03:13:28,905 --> 03:13:29,965
Yes. Okay. Thank you.

3876
03:13:32,785 --> 03:13:34,045
Ms. Donlin, do you have anything

3877
03:13:34,045 --> 03:13:35,085
to follow up on to consider?

3878
03:13:35,125 --> 03:13:39,165
I do, they referenced, I believe the word you used was

3879
03:13:39,165 --> 03:13:43,365
brightness of the signs as possible to go down

3880
03:13:43,465 --> 03:13:44,725
by 25%.

3881
03:13:44,745 --> 03:13:49,605
Did they speak to any value

3882
03:13:49,605 --> 03:13:52,325
that's not as vague as brightness in 25%?

3883
03:13:52,355 --> 03:13:55,725
Like is this however many Lumens, candles

3884
03:13:55,825 --> 03:13:57,085
or whatever or something like that? Yeah,

3885
03:13:57,745 --> 03:14:01,565
No, it, it initially in the file you'll find information

3886
03:14:01,585 --> 03:14:02,925
on the lumens of this sign.

3887
03:14:02,945 --> 03:14:05,805
It was presented it originally with our sign company.

3888
03:14:06,665 --> 03:14:11,005
It was designed through the sign engineer,

3889
03:14:11,065 --> 03:14:12,405
if you will, about the lumens.

3890
03:14:12,595 --> 03:14:14,165
There's a, there's a big piece in there.

3891
03:14:14,725 --> 03:14:17,125
I would just simply think in, in basic terms,

3892
03:14:17,375 --> 03:14:18,685
we'll just use it for simple terms.

3893
03:14:18,705 --> 03:14:20,765
If it's currently set at a hundred lumens,

3894
03:14:20,765 --> 03:14:22,085
it will go to 75 lumens.

3895
03:14:22,325 --> 03:14:23,565
I don't like Mr. Trip.

3896
03:14:23,885 --> 03:14:26,445
I don't know what, how I can determine a lumen like that.

3897
03:14:26,605 --> 03:14:28,365
I don't know that. I just know it can be turned down

3898
03:14:28,585 --> 03:14:29,685
in a percentage value.

3899
03:14:30,065 --> 03:14:32,285
So fair to say then, to the best

3900
03:14:32,285 --> 03:14:33,525
of your knowledge right now,

3901
03:14:33,905 --> 03:14:36,485
the sign is at a hundred percent of its brightness?

3902
03:14:37,065 --> 03:14:38,285
Yes. I think that's the default.

3903
03:14:38,665 --> 03:14:40,885
That's what my sign company told me. That's the default.

3904
03:14:41,035 --> 03:14:44,165
Okay. Which is what we presented to the initial,

3905
03:14:45,285 --> 03:14:47,965
I think the initial plan in Lumens

3906
03:14:47,965 --> 03:14:49,645
and so forth, which is the standard,

3907
03:14:51,555 --> 03:14:52,725
what they say is the standard.

3908
03:14:52,985 --> 03:14:55,885
So, but I didn't know either until it was brought up

3909
03:14:56,305 --> 03:14:58,285
and I asked the company and they can be turned down.

3910
03:14:58,975 --> 03:15:00,645
Thank You Mr. Chair. Go

3911
03:15:00,645 --> 03:15:01,645
Ahead.

3912
03:15:01,645 --> 03:15:03,725
If I may, 10, 15 may request a second extension.

3913
03:15:04,385 --> 03:15:06,245
Yep. I'll make a motion to extend

3914
03:15:06,245 --> 03:15:07,245
for an additional 15 minutes.

3915
03:15:08,265 --> 03:15:12,365
Mr. Dietzel. Second. Thank you. All in favor? Aye. Aye.

3916
03:15:12,635 --> 03:15:15,445
Okay. You had a question? I have

3917
03:15:15,445 --> 03:15:16,445
A follow up to Mr.

3918
03:15:16,445 --> 03:15:18,845
Dolan's point. Would, before the next meeting,

3919
03:15:19,705 --> 03:15:22,085
can I request, and I apologize for having to go back

3920
03:15:22,085 --> 03:15:23,165
through the documents, but can I request

3921
03:15:23,165 --> 03:15:24,845
that you guys present us kind of what, with

3922
03:15:25,915 --> 03:15:28,325
what the current 100% lumens are

3923
03:15:28,465 --> 03:15:30,925
and then what the 25% reduction will be, just so we have

3924
03:15:30,925 --> 03:15:33,525
that officially rather than Craig meth taking place?

3925
03:15:35,675 --> 03:15:39,965
Sure. Sure. Mr. Donald, you are all set.

3926
03:15:40,165 --> 03:15:41,405
I, I didn't mean to cut you off.

3927
03:15:42,075 --> 03:15:43,165
It's all right. I'm used to it.

3928
03:15:43,505 --> 03:15:46,925
All right. Thank you Mr. Dietzel. I'm all set. Mr. Chair.

3929
03:15:47,105 --> 03:15:50,565
Mr. Dietzel is used to it too, I guess. Oh, no, Mr.

3930
03:15:50,635 --> 03:15:52,245
Trip, you're all set and

3931
03:15:52,245 --> 03:15:53,365
You're all set. I have no questions.

3932
03:15:53,745 --> 03:15:54,885
All right. I'd like to see,

3933
03:15:54,885 --> 03:15:56,045
I just wanna see that one from the

3934
03:15:56,235 --> 03:15:57,235
Sure.

3935
03:15:57,235 --> 03:15:57,235
Having deliver.

3936
03:16:00,415 --> 03:16:01,965
Let's, let's adjourn this.

3937
03:16:02,545 --> 03:16:05,165
All right. I don't think we have to have any more testimony.

3938
03:16:05,745 --> 03:16:10,005
All right. I agree. Faith that way I don't see us getting

3939
03:16:10,005 --> 03:16:11,365
through a fair deliberation.

3940
03:16:11,365 --> 03:16:12,925
That's the point. I understand. I understand.

3941
03:16:13,065 --> 03:16:15,725
And I don't want it rushed. I'm just Yep. Without a sign.

3942
03:16:16,005 --> 03:16:19,085
I understand. And if it's any,

3943
03:16:20,465 --> 03:16:23,405
any significance to, you don't necessarily need to be here

3944
03:16:23,405 --> 03:16:26,485
for the deliberation that happens either, but Yes.

3945
03:16:26,485 --> 03:16:28,805
I, I can be here in your instead if you like, I'm just

3946
03:16:29,195 --> 03:16:30,845
Request a little bit of all Info.

3947
03:16:30,975 --> 03:16:35,885
We're, we're open to if ideas come from the board members,

3948
03:16:36,435 --> 03:16:40,765
they can be relayed to me and then back to code enforcement.

3949
03:16:40,875 --> 03:16:43,525
Okay. And I think I have a good

3950
03:16:43,525 --> 03:16:46,005
understanding of where you're at.

3951
03:16:47,805 --> 03:16:50,605
I think I can appreciate the amount of concessions

3952
03:16:50,605 --> 03:16:53,205
that you are making and that you're hearing kind

3953
03:16:53,205 --> 03:16:54,405
of the, the back and forth.

3954
03:16:56,225 --> 03:16:58,245
And so it's not falling on deaf ears.

3955
03:16:58,485 --> 03:17:00,045
I don't wanna rush through a deliberation

3956
03:17:00,075 --> 03:17:02,805
that I think is gonna take more than 10 minutes.

3957
03:17:03,315 --> 03:17:05,685
Okay. I understand. I, I understand that a hundred

3958
03:17:05,685 --> 03:17:06,685
Percent.

3959
03:17:06,685 --> 03:17:08,125
And, and just so I'm clear, so we are to try

3960
03:17:08,125 --> 03:17:12,005
to get some information submitted, which I could email in on

3961
03:17:12,925 --> 03:17:14,605
lumens and light measurement.

3962
03:17:14,915 --> 03:17:17,285
Yeah. Something, my specific request would just be

3963
03:17:17,285 --> 03:17:18,885
what the current 100% lumens is.

3964
03:17:18,915 --> 03:17:20,565
Okay. And then just specifically defined

3965
03:17:20,835 --> 03:17:22,805
what the 25% reduction is.

3966
03:17:24,315 --> 03:17:29,165
Okay. I will say to you that there is, there is no

3967
03:17:29,725 --> 03:17:30,885
district in this community

3968
03:17:30,885 --> 03:17:33,005
that does not allow for a business sign.

3969
03:17:33,385 --> 03:17:35,845
If you look at all the ordinance, the three pages of it.

3970
03:17:37,705 --> 03:17:40,205
And so I, I can understand,

3971
03:17:41,585 --> 03:17:46,005
but I have an understanding of, I think Mr. Davidson was up

3972
03:17:46,005 --> 03:17:47,565
and there was an exchange, you know,

3973
03:17:47,565 --> 03:17:48,845
about a hundred businesses.

3974
03:17:49,405 --> 03:17:51,165
I think that has to be evaluated

3975
03:17:51,425 --> 03:17:53,085
and you're not a hundred businesses,

3976
03:17:53,625 --> 03:17:56,205
but I think there's that aspect to it as well.

3977
03:17:56,345 --> 03:18:01,245
So just trying to figure out the best way on this. Okay.

3978
03:18:01,875 --> 03:18:03,525
Okay. Thank, I saw Mr. JE

3979
03:18:04,025 --> 03:18:06,685
And, and la Lastly, are we being continue to date certain,

3980
03:18:07,265 --> 03:18:08,925
I'm sorry again, We being continued

3981
03:18:08,925 --> 03:18:10,645
to date certain for the deliberation. We

3982
03:18:10,645 --> 03:18:12,685
Will take this up again at the next board meeting.

3983
03:18:13,005 --> 03:18:16,525
I think you'll get more information as we kind

3984
03:18:16,525 --> 03:18:20,005
of compile what's been presented. Okay. Okay. Alright.

3985
03:18:20,395 --> 03:18:23,205
That would be June 4th. June 4th.

3986
03:18:23,505 --> 03:18:25,405
Do I ask Ms. Per to keep the sign? Do

3987
03:18:25,405 --> 03:18:26,645
You want keep and I'll be able may

3988
03:18:27,165 --> 03:18:28,165
I don't want see the sign.

3989
03:18:29,035 --> 03:18:30,245
Alright gentlemen. Thank you

3990
03:18:30,245 --> 03:18:30,925
Mr. Per, thank you very much.

3991
03:18:31,895 --> 03:18:34,765
Thank you. Thank you. Jury.

3992
03:18:37,105 --> 03:18:40,405
The same information, exchange of information

3993
03:18:40,405 --> 03:18:42,005
Between, would you like that?

3994
03:18:42,345 --> 03:18:43,525
Yes, please. All right.

3995
03:18:43,525 --> 03:18:45,725
Well, I'll tell you what we will, Mrs.

3996
03:18:45,725 --> 03:18:47,845
Oland, you have contact information with these folks?

3997
03:18:48,125 --> 03:18:50,005
I believe I do. Yes. So what we get, we will,

3998
03:18:50,865 --> 03:18:53,245
we will resource through code enforcement.

3999
03:18:53,595 --> 03:18:56,525
Okay. Thank you. All right.

4000
03:18:59,775 --> 03:19:02,125
Let's get onto the later part of the agenda.

4001
03:19:05,585 --> 03:19:07,845
We gotta bring back appointment of officers

4002
03:19:07,865 --> 03:19:12,325
of which we are a month overdue, taken care of As

4003
03:19:13,285 --> 03:19:17,085
policies allow, each board member is allowed to

4004
03:19:18,105 --> 03:19:20,045
select chair, vice chair

4005
03:19:20,265 --> 03:19:23,165
or nominate chair, vice chair, secretary.

4006
03:19:24,705 --> 03:19:26,885
If it's status quo amongst all members,

4007
03:19:27,665 --> 03:19:29,405
you are welcome to state.

4008
03:19:29,585 --> 03:19:34,045
So would somebody like to, Mr.

4009
03:19:34,115 --> 03:19:36,405
Dietzel, would you like to make a nomination for chair?

4010
03:19:38,105 --> 03:19:39,125
Yes, Mr. Chair?

4011
03:19:39,145 --> 03:19:41,645
I'd like to nominate Lynn Perkins for chair.

4012
03:19:42,075 --> 03:19:45,565
Okay. Mr. Corbett? Yeah, I second that nomination.

4013
03:19:45,865 --> 03:19:48,805
All right, Mrs. Morn and Mr.

4014
03:19:48,875 --> 03:19:53,285
Trip, do either of you have an alternative? No. Okay.

4015
03:19:54,185 --> 03:19:57,805
All in favor of Lynn Perkins being chair. Aye. Aye. Aye.

4016
03:19:57,805 --> 03:20:00,445
Aye. Any opposed? All right. Hearing congratulations.

4017
03:20:01,045 --> 03:20:04,445
Thank you Mr. Corbett. Likewise.

4018
03:20:04,805 --> 03:20:07,885
I, I ask for him to stay as vice chair

4019
03:20:07,905 --> 03:20:09,405
and nominate him as such.

4020
03:20:10,185 --> 03:20:12,485
Second Mr. Dietzel seconds that Mr.

4021
03:20:12,655 --> 03:20:16,205
Tripp, you in favor of that? I am in favor of that. Ms.

4022
03:20:16,265 --> 03:20:19,325
Mor, do you have opposition? I do not. All right.

4023
03:20:19,385 --> 03:20:21,685
All in favor of Mr. Corbit being vice

4024
03:20:21,695 --> 03:20:22,885
chair for another year.

4025
03:20:23,105 --> 03:20:26,205
Say aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Hearing none.

4026
03:20:26,575 --> 03:20:30,565
Thank you. April. Mrs. Moore, I would ask to be

4027
03:20:31,305 --> 03:20:33,605
remain as secretary, board Secretary.

4028
03:20:33,785 --> 03:20:35,485
Mr. Dietzel? What? Say you

4029
03:20:36,065 --> 03:20:37,065
Second.

4030
03:20:37,065 --> 03:20:39,445
All right. Thank you, Mr. Tripp. You okay with that?

4031
03:20:39,865 --> 03:20:41,125
I'm fine with that. Mr.

4032
03:20:41,785 --> 03:20:44,165
Corbet, any alternatives you wanna suggest? No.

4033
03:20:44,165 --> 03:20:45,805
I think Ms. Moore has done an excellent job the last

4034
03:20:46,115 --> 03:20:47,205
four years, give or take.

4035
03:20:47,505 --> 03:20:50,605
All right. Good enough. All in favor of Ms.

4036
03:20:50,705 --> 03:20:54,005
Mor remaining as secretary say, aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed?

4037
03:20:54,115 --> 03:20:57,805
Hearing none. Our only correspondence is a New Hampshire

4038
03:20:57,805 --> 03:20:59,165
Town and City publication.

4039
03:20:59,275 --> 03:21:00,685
Anybody would like to read that?

4040
03:21:00,685 --> 03:21:04,205
You're welcome to take it home and do so. Anyone?

4041
03:21:05,585 --> 03:21:08,125
All right. Seeing no takers, I'll take it home myself.

4042
03:21:09,395 --> 03:21:13,565
That being said, that will wrap up this evening's session,

4043
03:21:14,265 --> 03:21:16,845
and we will continue with the,

4044
03:21:17,465 --> 03:21:21,765
the other cases at our next meeting, which is June 4th.

4045
03:21:21,985 --> 03:21:25,165
Fourth, okay. Any new cases to add to the agenda?

4046
03:21:25,345 --> 03:21:27,205
We have 2 0 2. Okay.

4047
03:21:27,395 --> 03:21:29,405
Well, at least we're slowing down on the pace, right.

4048
03:21:31,065 --> 03:21:35,085
All right. That means said we can take a motion to adjourn.

4049
03:21:35,435 --> 03:21:37,845
I'll make the motion to adjourn. Thank you. Second, Mr.

4050
03:21:38,155 --> 03:21:40,005
Omba. Seconded by Mr. Dietzel.

4051
03:21:40,025 --> 03:21:43,165
All in favor of adjournment, say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed?

4052
03:21:43,675 --> 03:21:45,205
Hearing none adjourned.