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Pledge allegiance to flag of the United States of America

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and to the republic, which it stands, one nation under God,

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indivisible of liberty and justice for all

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The details.

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Details, right. So I wanna welcome all of you

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to the board meeting tonight, just as a protocol.

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Let's introduce ourselves as the host of the evening,

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Michael Donlin,

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Crystal Morin, secretary.

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I'm Lynn Perkins, the chair, Jim Dietzel, gas Bimba.

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We have code enforcement Officer Kerry Owen with us.

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And Eileen Boudreaux is our clerk. How's that?

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Fewer people up here. I can remember more names.

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Just matter of housekeeping here.

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Please shut off all your cell phones, iPhones, anything

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that could create a distraction of the proceedings.

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Please limit your conversations.

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I know you want to chat,

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but just so we can keep the

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distractions down for the record.

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Speaking of the record, these are audio,

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video recorded proceedings

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and schedule to terminate at 10:00 PM

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And in the event of an emergency, please exit to the rear

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of the room and someone will assist you.

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Don't use the elevator.

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So anyway, on this agenda we have

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request to table the case 26 dash 115

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to June 18th, 2026.

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If anybody is here for that, could I have a motion

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to table that please?

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Chair. I'll make a motion to table

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case number 26 dash 15 to the following meeting.

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June 18th, 2026.

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Very good. Second. Thank you Mr. Donlin.

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All in favor of tabling that to that meeting. Say aye. Aye.

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Aye. Any opposed? Hearing none.

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Alright, so we're up to our regular agenda

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and Mr.

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O Bimba, I'm gonna have you sit

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for this and probably the likely the next case.

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The next case up is 26 dash 12.

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Applicant is Jeffrey Molton,

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representing owner Benjamin Powell.

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Mr. Moten,

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good evening sir.

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Good evening. And I think you know,

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our protocols just introduce on the application if you'd

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like and then get into that five criteria for the record.

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Sure. Alright.

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So the proposal is to allow the construction

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of a second story expansion

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to an existing single story garage,

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which is located less than 35 feet to front property line

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and less than 15 feet to side property line as permitted

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by a variance granted in 2016.

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Number one, the variance will not be contrary

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to the public interest

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'cause the original setbacks will be maintained from the

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2016 variance

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garage modification allows more storage

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and reduces lock clutter.

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Number two, the spirit of the ordinance is observed

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because garage setbacks are consistent

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with other structures in the area

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and the project maintains existing setbacks.

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Acts Number three, substantial justice is done

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because the project will maintain the same lot coverage

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with no effect on lake quality

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and provides more functionality for the owner.

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Number four, the values

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of surrounding properties are not diminished

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because project setbacks are consistent

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with other properties in the area

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and increased storage will reduce lot clutter

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and provide better aesthetics.

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Number five, little enforcement of the provision

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of the ordinance would result in an unnecessary hardship.

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A i no fair

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and substantial relationship exists

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between the general public purposes

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of the ordinance provision

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and the specific application of

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that provision to the property.

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The lot is narrow limiting options for expansion.

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The lot also has a high water table preventing a basement,

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a second floor garage modification is the least

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intrusive solution.

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Double i The proposed use is a reasonable one.

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Proposed garage modification is a permitted use under the

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ordinance and has no effect on lot setbacks or lot coverage.

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Very good. And please proceed.

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So I think if you take a look at,

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say the tax map, that kind of gives you an idea for,

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for this lot 9 0 91.

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But you can see in,

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in general the houses in the neighborhood that are,

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they're very close to the lot lines and and to the road.

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So this is very much in character to what,

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what's already been built in the neighborhood.

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If you go back to the, some of the architectural plants,

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you'll see the really all we're doing here is we're raising

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the roof and putting a a, a higher wall

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and that allowss gonna

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storage up in that facility.

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There'll be no living quarters, there's no heat,

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there's no water up there.

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It's just more storage facilities.

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And we included some pictures that,

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that shows the existing garage and house

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and as I said, the roof will be raised

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and it'll allow more storage space.

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And then lastly, we included a drawing that shows

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is consistent with the drawing that was approved in 2016

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that shows the existing setback from the west po,

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the west slot line of six feet

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and 26 feet from the Germantown Road.

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Any questions?

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I'm sure that your intended, you may have expressed this,

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but the, let's go to the last photo

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with the porta potty on it.

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Is that roof facing the lake? The water?

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Yes. Okay. The lake is on the other side of the

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Do you have any impervious issues

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or permitting that is relevant to this at all?

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There's no increase in impervious footprints

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And not all overly familiar with this,

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but is the, is the permitting on an addition like this

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separate from if you just dug it into the ground?

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'cause I, I guess the, the first question is,

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is it 250 feet to the water's edge?

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And it is. And so is the permitting when you do something

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like this sep different than if you were

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to just dig a, a new hole and

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There's no permit required from Shoreland as

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you're not increasing the impervious footprint,

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Right?

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No. I mean if you had dug this freshly

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and were building this, not just going up a second story,

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that, that's where the

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Absolutely permiting Comes from.

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Yes. Alright, let me rest.

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Anybody else have any questions Mr. Donlin?

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Not at this time. Mrs. Warren.

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I have none at this time.

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He answered the questions I had about

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what would occupy up there.

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Okay.

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Should I suppose I Mr.

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Chair, I do have a question. Yes, sir.

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The, The proposed ridge height relative to the

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existing dwellings ridge height, where,

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where are we talking relative to one another there?

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How much higher Will the new ridge

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of the garage be higher than

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the ridge of the existing house? Yep.

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We, we included a, a profile of the,

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the section and it shows that the

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we're raising at about eight feet on the backside.

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Okay. Whereas if you look at the pictures, you can see the,

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the, the slope of the existing roof comes right

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down to the edge.

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So then the, the backside will go up eight feet.

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Okay.

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You satisfied Mr.

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Donlin? Yeah, sir. I'm all right. Mr.

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O Bimbo, I'll do the math.

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Donlon, ask my question maybe for code enforcement,

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do we enforce averages for roof ridge heights

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for similar addition

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Averages?

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Yeah. Like look at similar roofs in the area.

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Let's go over code enforcement.

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Now, Mrs. Owen, if you'd like to do your staff

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and answer that at the same time, you're welcome to.

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Absolutely. Thank you. So as the applicant stated,

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seeking a variance to allow the construction

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of a second story expansion

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to the existing single story detached garage,

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located less than 35 feet from the front property line

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and less than 15 feet from the side property line,

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this property was granted a variance November 17th, 2020,

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2016, to construct the detached garage,

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which is 22 feet by 22 feet.

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And it's in its current position, it was approved

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within the setbacks.

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So the second story expansion is expanding

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the original permitted footprint.

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Therefore, the variance is required for this.

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As we are aware, this is along big island pond.

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So this is a waterfront property.

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It abuts a beach area for use

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by the residents on Germantown Road.

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Germantown Road is also a private road

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not maintained by the town.

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And as the applicant confirmed,

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a shoreland permit will not be required

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because the impervious surface is not being increased.

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And then just standard permitting would

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be required moving forward.

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And regarding the ridge height, I

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I we don't, we do look at averages in certain districts,

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not necessarily in this residential area.

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I'm not necessarily convinced that the ridge is

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in increasing by eight feet.

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It's more the dormer in the back

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of the right doesn't, that's increasing height of

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The overall height doesn't Increase.

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Increase, yeah. So the, the ridge height

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will remain the same, the back wall will be lifted up

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to allow for head height and storage in the, in the space.

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Well, it's that Mr. Chair. Okay, Mr. Dietzel?

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No. Thank you Mr. Chair. Alright.

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I think relevant to ridge height,

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and I don't, I'm not sure if this is where you were going

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with that Mr.

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Bumba. There are, there are Ridge Heights

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and BA building heights that

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the building code does observe,

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but not so pertinent here.

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I don't know if there was any, any restriction there that

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the, that the designer self-imposed,

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but I just add that it's a little more clarity for you.

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All right, you're all set. Mr.

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Moulton, let's make a call to public.

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Anybody in favor of this application direct abuts.

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If you'd like to come forward

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and support this application,

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this would be your opportunity to do so.

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Seeing no one in the room rise, let's make a call

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to any opposition, anybody opposed to this application,

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this would be your opportunity to come forward as well.

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Seeing no one rise for that. Mr.

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Molton, if you are all set,

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we'll take a motion to deliberate.

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You all set? Alright, can I have that motion please?

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Mr. Dietzel, you wanna help me out?

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I make a motion to go into deliberation

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And Mr. Omba,

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I'll second the motion.

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Alright, all in favor of deliberation, say aye. Aye. Aye.

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Any opposed? Hearing none.

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Anybody wish to lead off?

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I will. I guess I think this is a pretty

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straightforward application.

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The five criteria I believe were met.

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I, I looked at the property

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and I don't see, I don't think that

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what they're proposing is really outta line.

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I don't think it changes the essential

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character or the neighborhood.

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I and I, I believe that

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strict enforcement of the rule

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or literal enforcement would, would deny a, a reasonable use

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of this piece of property.

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I don't, I don't have any problem with it.

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Mr. Bumba? I agree with Mr. Dietzel.

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I think all the five points have been addressed

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and they're pretty clear.

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It's not an excessive ask.

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We are not increasing footprint to the impermeable surface.

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Surface. We changing

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and I think setbacks are staying the same.

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It's, it's, it's the height.

265
00:14:01,405 --> 00:14:04,005
I think it's a reasonable request for the board to consider.

266
00:14:04,555 --> 00:14:07,845
Alright, very good. Mr. Don?

267
00:14:10,405 --> 00:14:12,285
I too believe it's a reasonable request

268
00:14:13,425 --> 00:14:16,405
for all the reasons stated prior.

269
00:14:18,625 --> 00:14:21,045
No expansion of the,

270
00:14:21,825 --> 00:14:23,885
the actual footprint impervious areas.

271
00:14:24,955 --> 00:14:27,925
Generally a bigger concern by the water especially.

272
00:14:29,775 --> 00:14:31,285
Seems, seems reasonable.

273
00:14:31,865 --> 00:14:33,445
All right. Mrs. Morin,

274
00:14:35,185 --> 00:14:38,745
I agree as well that the all five has been met, he could

275
00:14:39,495 --> 00:14:42,505
essentially do it without changing anything,

276
00:14:42,575 --> 00:14:43,945
just not comfortably.

277
00:14:44,445 --> 00:14:49,385
So I think he should be allowed to do it comfortably.

278
00:14:49,935 --> 00:14:50,225
Okay.

279
00:14:56,825 --> 00:14:59,765
And I, I too seems fairly simple.

280
00:15:00,085 --> 00:15:02,965
I think we've clarified all the permitting issues

281
00:15:03,385 --> 00:15:04,965
and whereas the permit

282
00:15:05,105 --> 00:15:07,245
and the variance were already approved

283
00:15:09,985 --> 00:15:13,845
and an addition was put in off of that variance,

284
00:15:14,635 --> 00:15:16,645
this increases the building size

285
00:15:16,825 --> 00:15:18,565
but not the outward dimensions.

286
00:15:18,865 --> 00:15:23,005
So this is, I don't see this overly complex.

287
00:15:24,025 --> 00:15:27,205
We could structure the motion, which would be, I think

288
00:15:28,065 --> 00:15:31,805
simple would be subject to obtaining all State town

289
00:15:32,315 --> 00:15:33,605
permits and inspections.

290
00:15:34,035 --> 00:15:35,565
Does anybody have any other

291
00:15:36,955 --> 00:15:38,765
addendums they'd like to add to the motion?

292
00:15:40,305 --> 00:15:42,685
Seeing no gestures there. Alright, very good.

293
00:15:43,885 --> 00:15:45,885
That being said, we can come out of motion

294
00:15:45,945 --> 00:15:47,165
to come out of deliberation.

295
00:15:47,755 --> 00:15:49,565
I'll make a motion to come Out of deliberation.

296
00:15:49,575 --> 00:15:51,845
Thank you Mr. Dietzel. Second. Mr.

297
00:15:52,025 --> 00:15:53,485
Donlin has a second on that.

298
00:15:53,585 --> 00:15:56,565
All in favor of coming out of deliberation? Say aye. Aye.

299
00:15:56,865 --> 00:15:59,365
Aye. The opposed Hearing none.

300
00:16:00,185 --> 00:16:02,285
Mrs. Moore, you have a motion to read?

301
00:16:02,765 --> 00:16:07,565
I do. Thank you. I make a motion on case number two six

302
00:16:07,835 --> 00:16:12,205
dash 12 Jeffrey Molton to grant a variance

303
00:16:13,345 --> 00:16:15,765
as provided in Article six,

304
00:16:15,795 --> 00:16:20,085
section 1 65 dash four eight B four

305
00:16:20,705 --> 00:16:23,445
of the town of dairy zoning ordinance

306
00:16:23,905 --> 00:16:28,245
to allow the construction of a second story expansion

307
00:16:28,545 --> 00:16:31,885
to an existing single story garage,

308
00:16:32,535 --> 00:16:35,525
which is located less than 35 feet

309
00:16:35,585 --> 00:16:37,085
to the front property line

310
00:16:37,545 --> 00:16:41,645
and less than 15 feet to the side property line parcel

311
00:16:42,185 --> 00:16:46,685
ID 1 9 0 9 1 zoned LDR

312
00:16:47,065 --> 00:16:50,325
as presented with the following conditions We have one,

313
00:16:50,905 --> 00:16:52,965
one subject to obtaining all state

314
00:16:52,985 --> 00:16:54,885
and town permits and inspections.

315
00:16:55,065 --> 00:16:56,925
And that concludes the reading of the motion.

316
00:16:57,085 --> 00:16:58,645
I need a second. Second.

317
00:16:59,705 --> 00:17:02,645
What's that motion on the floor for consideration?

318
00:17:03,775 --> 00:17:05,485
Let's get into the finding of fact.

319
00:17:06,705 --> 00:17:11,565
The board found that the applicant is in the low

320
00:17:11,565 --> 00:17:13,285
density residential district.

321
00:17:13,985 --> 00:17:18,005
The parcel was granted a variance in 2016

322
00:17:18,145 --> 00:17:21,005
to build a 22 by 22 foot garage.

323
00:17:21,865 --> 00:17:25,405
The application is to expand that on the second floor.

324
00:17:26,065 --> 00:17:30,765
The road in on that this is on is on a private road

325
00:17:31,375 --> 00:17:34,045
along the lake and the property is serviced

326
00:17:34,185 --> 00:17:36,245
by private water and sewer.

327
00:17:36,345 --> 00:17:38,765
Any addendums to the finding of fact

328
00:17:40,225 --> 00:17:41,765
seeing no gestures there?

329
00:17:44,705 --> 00:17:48,525
All in favor of moving this for a vote? Say aye. Aye.

330
00:17:48,945 --> 00:17:51,885
May Opposed? Hearing none. Mr. Dietzel?

331
00:17:52,065 --> 00:17:56,965
Yes. Mr. Donlin? Yes. Mrs. Moore? Yes. Mr. Omba?

332
00:17:57,065 --> 00:18:00,605
Yes. And the chair will make that unanimous by a vote

333
00:18:00,705 --> 00:18:02,125
of five to zero.

334
00:18:02,875 --> 00:18:07,605
Anybody of course agree by this decision has 30 days to ask

335
00:18:07,665 --> 00:18:09,685
for reconsideration from the board.

336
00:18:09,685 --> 00:18:11,605
After that recourse will be to superior court.

337
00:18:12,105 --> 00:18:14,565
So congratulations Mr. Moulton. Nice presentation.

338
00:18:14,755 --> 00:18:16,165
Alright, thank you. Thank you.

339
00:18:29,995 --> 00:18:33,725
Next case up is 26 dash one 13,

340
00:18:33,945 --> 00:18:36,565
tabled from May 21st, 2026.

341
00:18:37,225 --> 00:18:41,085
The applicant is Edward Herbert representing Craig

342
00:18:42,275 --> 00:18:44,005
Bono construction company.

343
00:18:55,795 --> 00:18:56,605
Good evening folks.

344
00:18:57,285 --> 00:18:58,205
Good evening Mr. Chairman.

345
00:18:58,205 --> 00:18:59,245
Members of the board for the record.

346
00:18:59,265 --> 00:19:01,645
My name is Shane Jenn, I'm employed with Herbert Associates

347
00:19:02,185 --> 00:19:04,685
and with me this evening I have Craig Bono who's

348
00:19:04,685 --> 00:19:05,885
the property owner.

349
00:19:09,625 --> 00:19:13,165
As you may recall, our protocols just get us into the

350
00:19:13,515 --> 00:19:15,845
Five criteria Application base

351
00:19:15,945 --> 00:19:17,845
and the five criteria. Yes sir. Sure.

352
00:19:17,855 --> 00:19:18,925
Thank you. So what we're looking

353
00:19:18,925 --> 00:19:21,525
to do is subdivide this property into three lots.

354
00:19:22,665 --> 00:19:25,685
One of those lots is not gonna make the three acre minimum

355
00:19:25,715 --> 00:19:27,845
requirement and that's what the variance is about.

356
00:19:28,225 --> 00:19:30,205
And with that I will read the five criteria.

357
00:19:33,345 --> 00:19:35,525
One, the variance is not contrary to public interest

358
00:19:35,525 --> 00:19:38,245
because two of the lots will be three acres and

359
00:19:38,245 --> 00:19:41,525
therefore meet zoning A wetland forms a natural boundary

360
00:19:41,545 --> 00:19:44,325
for the third lot, which will be approximately 2.4 acres.

361
00:19:44,835 --> 00:19:46,965
This is larger than any of the surrounding lots

362
00:19:46,965 --> 00:19:49,845
that abut this parcel and provides more than adequate area

363
00:19:49,905 --> 00:19:51,125
for the proposed improvements.

364
00:19:51,405 --> 00:19:53,445
Granting the variance will not pose any threat

365
00:19:53,445 --> 00:19:55,085
to public health, safety, or welfare

366
00:19:55,265 --> 00:19:56,965
and will not interfere with the public's use

367
00:19:56,965 --> 00:19:59,525
of Winchester Terrace or Pingree Hill Road.

368
00:20:00,505 --> 00:20:02,925
Two. Spirit of the ordinance is observed

369
00:20:02,925 --> 00:20:05,925
because the proposal for three lots does not conflict

370
00:20:05,925 --> 00:20:08,005
with any of the purposes of the zoning ordinance.

371
00:20:08,105 --> 00:20:10,445
As stated in section 1 65 dash three,

372
00:20:10,825 --> 00:20:12,005
it will give the owner the highest

373
00:20:12,025 --> 00:20:13,205
and best use of the property.

374
00:20:13,425 --> 00:20:15,725
If the variance is granted, it will meet all other zoning,

375
00:20:15,725 --> 00:20:17,725
health, safety and building requirements.

376
00:20:18,535 --> 00:20:20,405
Three substantial justice is done.

377
00:20:21,025 --> 00:20:23,605
The use that we're requesting is an allow is an allowed use

378
00:20:23,605 --> 00:20:25,405
in the low density residential district

379
00:20:25,625 --> 00:20:27,925
and is consistent with all of the surrounding lots.

380
00:20:28,465 --> 00:20:30,365
It will allow the owner to make reasonable use

381
00:20:30,365 --> 00:20:31,645
of the northerly end of this lot,

382
00:20:31,645 --> 00:20:33,005
which is physically isolated

383
00:20:33,005 --> 00:20:35,525
by a wetland making this land unusable

384
00:20:35,525 --> 00:20:36,885
to the existing home site.

385
00:20:37,345 --> 00:20:39,445
All three proposed lots will be larger than any

386
00:20:39,445 --> 00:20:43,125
of the surrounding lots that abut this parcel in accordance

387
00:20:43,125 --> 00:20:46,445
with 1 65 dash three H of the zoning ordinance.

388
00:20:46,445 --> 00:20:48,405
This proposal gives reasonable consideration

389
00:20:48,405 --> 00:20:50,045
to the character of the area involved

390
00:20:50,545 --> 00:20:51,845
as this parcel was surrounded

391
00:20:51,845 --> 00:20:55,525
by undersized lots propose lot one 2.31 acres

392
00:20:55,705 --> 00:20:57,685
for which the variance is sought is larger than

393
00:20:57,685 --> 00:20:58,765
any of the abutting lots.

394
00:20:59,465 --> 00:21:03,525
And the next largest lot is abutting 14 dash 26 dash 10 at

395
00:21:03,555 --> 00:21:05,405
only 2.16 acres.

396
00:21:06,385 --> 00:21:08,565
The value of surrounding properties is not diminished.

397
00:21:09,685 --> 00:21:12,525
A wetland forms a natural boundary on the northernmost lot.

398
00:21:13,495 --> 00:21:15,355
The other two lots will meet the three acre

399
00:21:15,385 --> 00:21:16,515
requirement for zoning.

400
00:21:16,775 --> 00:21:18,995
One proposed lot has an existing home.

401
00:21:19,215 --> 00:21:22,595
The other two lots lot, the other two lots are large enough

402
00:21:22,595 --> 00:21:23,835
for sizable attractive homes

403
00:21:23,835 --> 00:21:25,755
that will meet all the building setbacks.

404
00:21:26,395 --> 00:21:28,315
Increase property values for surrounding lots,

405
00:21:28,485 --> 00:21:31,475
there will be no negative impact to surrounding properties.

406
00:21:32,785 --> 00:21:33,995
Five I no fair

407
00:21:34,055 --> 00:21:35,715
and substantial relationship exists

408
00:21:35,715 --> 00:21:37,075
between the general public purpose

409
00:21:37,815 --> 00:21:39,995
and the provision specific to that application.

410
00:21:40,655 --> 00:21:42,915
The general purpose of the ordinance is

411
00:21:42,915 --> 00:21:45,635
to ensure adequate land areas available for the construction

412
00:21:45,635 --> 00:21:47,195
of a house a well and a leach area.

413
00:21:47,615 --> 00:21:49,675
The two proposed lots on the southerly portion

414
00:21:49,695 --> 00:21:51,635
of the parcel will meet the zoning requirement.

415
00:21:52,135 --> 00:21:55,075
The north most proposed lot is physically isolated from the

416
00:21:55,395 --> 00:21:57,515
existing home area by a wet area that it

417
00:21:57,575 --> 00:21:59,595
and is too remote from the house to be usable.

418
00:22:00,085 --> 00:22:03,035
There is no land to add to this lot to make it conform

419
00:22:03,035 --> 00:22:04,875
because all a budding lots are undersized

420
00:22:04,935 --> 00:22:07,115
and the northerly line is the Chester town line.

421
00:22:07,735 --> 00:22:09,275
The lot will have adequate land area

422
00:22:09,295 --> 00:22:10,715
for a house well leach bed.

423
00:22:11,095 --> 00:22:12,835
It will meet all soil-based lot sizing

424
00:22:12,935 --> 00:22:14,155
and require no waivers.

425
00:22:16,425 --> 00:22:18,235
It's the proposed use is reasonable.

426
00:22:19,115 --> 00:22:21,355
The lot is in the Lowden City residential zone.

427
00:22:21,695 --> 00:22:24,315
The proposed use is similar to all of the surrounding lots

428
00:22:24,315 --> 00:22:25,595
and it's an allowed use in the zone.

429
00:22:26,055 --> 00:22:28,555
All three proposed lots exceed frontage requirements

430
00:22:28,555 --> 00:22:30,795
and have adequate area for the proposed improvements

431
00:22:32,055 --> 00:22:34,555
and be special conditions

432
00:22:34,555 --> 00:22:36,715
that distinguishes property from other properties.

433
00:22:37,515 --> 00:22:40,715
The southerly portion of lot 14 dash 24 can easily be

434
00:22:40,715 --> 00:22:42,675
subdivided to form two three acre lots

435
00:22:42,675 --> 00:22:44,115
that conform with the zoning ordinance.

436
00:22:44,345 --> 00:22:46,355
However, the portion of the lot to the north

437
00:22:46,455 --> 00:22:49,155
of the wetland cannot reasonably be used without a variance

438
00:22:49,155 --> 00:22:51,235
being granted for the house lot due

439
00:22:51,235 --> 00:22:52,995
to the natural boundary that this wetland creates.

440
00:22:56,465 --> 00:22:58,275
Alright, sounds like you have a bit

441
00:22:58,275 --> 00:22:59,395
of explaining to doula.

442
00:22:59,745 --> 00:23:03,515
Sure. So this is an 8.44 acre parcel

443
00:23:03,985 --> 00:23:07,435
that my client purchased that has an existing home on it.

444
00:23:07,975 --> 00:23:09,795
And Craig is a builder.

445
00:23:09,865 --> 00:23:11,435
He'd like to develop the property, he'd like

446
00:23:11,435 --> 00:23:12,835
to develop it into three lots.

447
00:23:14,335 --> 00:23:17,155
The first step that we do when we take on a project like

448
00:23:17,155 --> 00:23:19,315
this is we look at, obviously we survey the lot

449
00:23:19,315 --> 00:23:21,075
and we have the wetlands flagged out.

450
00:23:21,375 --> 00:23:23,955
We hired Luke Hurley of Hurley environmental land planning

451
00:23:24,095 --> 00:23:27,875
to flag the wetland that basically runs from the back

452
00:23:27,875 --> 00:23:29,195
of the lot between lot one

453
00:23:29,195 --> 00:23:30,635
and two all the way to the front of the lot.

454
00:23:31,025 --> 00:23:33,315
There's a culvert that runs under Pingry Hill

455
00:23:33,315 --> 00:23:36,835
and that wetland continues on between that wetland

456
00:23:36,895 --> 00:23:39,235
and the 75 foot wetland buffer on

457
00:23:39,235 --> 00:23:40,355
either side of that wetland.

458
00:23:40,655 --> 00:23:43,555
It creates quite a separation there from the the area

459
00:23:43,895 --> 00:23:44,915
around the house to

460
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:46,685
and then that area to the lot of the north.

461
00:23:47,515 --> 00:23:50,445
This lot has long frontage on Pingree Hill Road

462
00:23:51,465 --> 00:23:54,685
has 974 feet of frontage on Pingree Hill

463
00:23:54,745 --> 00:23:57,765
and has 440 feet of frontage on Winchester Terrace.

464
00:23:59,795 --> 00:24:02,485
Obviously lots two and three meet the zoning requirements.

465
00:24:02,825 --> 00:24:06,045
Lot one to the north, which is physically isolated is

466
00:24:06,045 --> 00:24:08,765
where we'd be looking for the variance.

467
00:24:10,405 --> 00:24:11,485
A little about this property.

468
00:24:11,485 --> 00:24:13,645
If you look at it on the tax map

469
00:24:13,645 --> 00:24:15,605
that was included on the variance plan.

470
00:24:15,945 --> 00:24:19,485
You'll notice almost every lot in this neighborhood is well

471
00:24:19,485 --> 00:24:21,485
below the acreage that we're proposing here.

472
00:24:21,705 --> 00:24:23,845
We are completely, almost, completely surrounded

473
00:24:23,845 --> 00:24:24,885
by one acre lots.

474
00:24:29,575 --> 00:24:31,085
Other than that, I mean the lot will

475
00:24:31,085 --> 00:24:32,165
meet all of the requirements.

476
00:24:32,165 --> 00:24:33,405
Obviously it would have to go

477
00:24:33,405 --> 00:24:35,325
before planning board for subdivision approval.

478
00:24:35,385 --> 00:24:37,325
It would have to get a state subdivision approval

479
00:24:38,385 --> 00:24:40,485
and then there would be septic designs.

480
00:24:40,485 --> 00:24:41,485
It would have to be approved

481
00:24:41,485 --> 00:24:42,605
through the state of New Hampshire.

482
00:24:55,225 --> 00:24:59,285
Is lot one the

483
00:25:00,005 --> 00:25:02,405
conflicted lot that does not meet the acreage?

484
00:25:03,145 --> 00:25:04,445
It is. Okay.

485
00:25:08,715 --> 00:25:11,885
Your frontage there is 3 79 0.71.

486
00:25:11,985 --> 00:25:14,565
That's correct. And your other three,

487
00:25:14,755 --> 00:25:16,805
your other two lots meet the frontage.

488
00:25:22,105 --> 00:25:24,725
I'm looking for that length on the ex

489
00:25:24,775 --> 00:25:26,725
where the existing dwelling is

490
00:25:27,705 --> 00:25:28,705
2 1 5.

491
00:25:28,705 --> 00:25:31,405
Sure. I have it written down right here.

492
00:25:32,425 --> 00:25:33,405
2 1 3 5.

493
00:25:40,545 --> 00:25:41,965
It appears to be two 15

494
00:25:42,945 --> 00:25:45,685
On where the existing lot is. Mr. Donlin.

495
00:25:45,685 --> 00:25:48,685
Yeah, look just north of where it says LP G tank.

496
00:25:48,845 --> 00:25:51,005
I believe the L referenced there is the link. Oh,

497
00:25:51,005 --> 00:25:51,725
Very good. Yeah, that's

498
00:25:51,725 --> 00:25:54,605
2 15 80 plus there's another 72 41.

499
00:25:54,745 --> 00:25:58,885
So you're looking at 290 feet almost.

500
00:25:59,475 --> 00:25:59,765
Okay.

501
00:26:04,705 --> 00:26:07,725
And the, the frontage in this area is 200 feet, correct?

502
00:26:07,785 --> 00:26:09,325
200 feet requirement frontage. Yes.

503
00:26:11,125 --> 00:26:15,885
Anybody else have any questions to throw at Mr.

504
00:26:16,025 --> 00:26:20,165
Jen? Mr. Omba?

505
00:26:20,505 --> 00:26:24,185
No questions for now. Mr. Dietzel? No

506
00:26:24,185 --> 00:26:24,905
Thank you Mr. Chair.

507
00:26:25,525 --> 00:26:27,905
Mr. Donlin? Not at this time. Mr. Chair.

508
00:26:28,375 --> 00:26:28,665
Okay.

509
00:26:33,805 --> 00:26:36,465
And trying to grasp that wetland setback.

510
00:26:41,925 --> 00:26:45,805
And I see the 75 foot wetland setback line.

511
00:26:47,075 --> 00:26:49,325
It's just to the left of the proposed well on

512
00:26:49,325 --> 00:26:50,885
that lot one. Am I correct?

513
00:26:51,065 --> 00:26:55,565
That's correct. So the proposed structure is

514
00:26:55,565 --> 00:26:56,805
75 feet away.

515
00:26:58,755 --> 00:27:02,125
It's more than 75 feet. Got it.

516
00:27:02,385 --> 00:27:06,485
Yep. There's over an acre of usable buildable land on

517
00:27:06,485 --> 00:27:10,285
that lot and there's almost two acres of upland high

518
00:27:10,285 --> 00:27:11,765
and dry land on that that lot.

519
00:27:16,535 --> 00:27:19,475
How do you determine on that lot your

520
00:27:21,035 --> 00:27:22,275
septic location there?

521
00:27:23,015 --> 00:27:25,395
So we're required by state of New Hampshire

522
00:27:25,395 --> 00:27:27,955
and I believe dairy subdivision regulations just show

523
00:27:27,955 --> 00:27:29,835
what we call a 4,000 square foot area.

524
00:27:30,255 --> 00:27:31,595
That's a state requirement.

525
00:27:32,505 --> 00:27:34,835
Typically a leach field is somewhere between three

526
00:27:34,895 --> 00:27:35,995
and 500 square feet.

527
00:27:36,095 --> 00:27:38,595
So the state is basically required us

528
00:27:38,595 --> 00:27:39,995
to show an area that's large enough.

529
00:27:40,815 --> 00:27:43,635
We dig a couple of test bits in that area to show that

530
00:27:43,635 --> 00:27:44,675
that area proves out.

531
00:27:44,965 --> 00:27:46,595
We've already done the test bits on this.

532
00:27:47,295 --> 00:27:49,875
All the test bits were greater than five feet

533
00:27:50,685 --> 00:27:53,435
reasonable water tables 'cause we're up on a hill.

534
00:27:55,115 --> 00:27:56,755
I don't see any issues with septic.

535
00:27:57,945 --> 00:28:00,835
Yeah. So they give you a target 4,000 square feet

536
00:28:00,835 --> 00:28:03,115
and then you can kind of throw the dart at it, correct?

537
00:28:03,215 --> 00:28:03,795
That's correct.

538
00:28:09,385 --> 00:28:12,875
Well let's, if you don't have anything else, Mrs. Owen,

539
00:28:12,935 --> 00:28:14,635
you have any feedback for us?

540
00:28:15,805 --> 00:28:18,195
Thank you Chair. Not a lot to add.

541
00:28:18,275 --> 00:28:19,995
I think the applicant did a great job presenting.

542
00:28:20,975 --> 00:28:23,715
As we're aware, this is a variance being requested

543
00:28:23,715 --> 00:28:26,395
to allow the property be subdivided into three lots

544
00:28:26,685 --> 00:28:28,475
where one of the lots will be less than

545
00:28:28,475 --> 00:28:29,795
the required three acre minimum.

546
00:28:30,535 --> 00:28:32,995
The property is located in the low density residential

547
00:28:33,235 --> 00:28:36,315
district, which requires a minimum lot area of three acres.

548
00:28:37,055 --> 00:28:40,635
It this proposed three lot subdivision will result two lots

549
00:28:40,635 --> 00:28:41,955
meeting the three acre minimum

550
00:28:42,095 --> 00:28:45,795
and the one lot will be approximately 2.3 acres.

551
00:28:45,795 --> 00:28:47,675
Therefore the variance is being requested

552
00:28:47,675 --> 00:28:48,915
for the undersized lot.

553
00:28:49,815 --> 00:28:51,035
The existing residents

554
00:28:51,095 --> 00:28:52,795
and proposed new lots are serviced

555
00:28:52,795 --> 00:28:54,675
by private septic and private well.

556
00:28:55,815 --> 00:28:57,795
And as the applicant stated, if approved,

557
00:28:57,815 --> 00:29:00,315
the planning board subdivision approval will be required.

558
00:29:01,255 --> 00:29:03,635
And that's it. Thank you. Alright,

559
00:29:03,725 --> 00:29:04,725
Thank you.

560
00:29:05,895 --> 00:29:08,315
All right, well let's make a call to public gentlemen.

561
00:29:08,315 --> 00:29:10,435
You know how we handle that. So let's see if anybody comes

562
00:29:10,455 --> 00:29:12,075
up and gives us some feedback.

563
00:29:13,025 --> 00:29:15,075
Anybody wishing to speak in favor

564
00:29:15,095 --> 00:29:17,355
of this application in support?

565
00:29:17,915 --> 00:29:21,035
This is your opportunity if you're directly, but to come up

566
00:29:22,575 --> 00:29:25,995
and be heard seeing anybody rise,

567
00:29:26,425 --> 00:29:29,875
anybody in opposition to this parcel in this development.

568
00:29:29,875 --> 00:29:31,235
You may come forward now. No.

569
00:29:45,715 --> 00:29:48,085
Good evening your name.

570
00:29:48,515 --> 00:29:50,805
Good evening. My name is Jonathan Bresnan.

571
00:29:51,605 --> 00:29:53,285
I own 55 Pingree Hill Road.

572
00:29:55,115 --> 00:29:58,605
Okay. A week

573
00:29:58,605 --> 00:30:03,485
before the last town hearing was when I heard about this,

574
00:30:04,445 --> 00:30:06,405
I was informed by the post

575
00:30:06,405 --> 00:30:07,325
Office. Yeah,

576
00:30:07,325 --> 00:30:08,325
That's lovely.

577
00:30:08,325 --> 00:30:09,965
So I haven't had much time to prepare

578
00:30:10,625 --> 00:30:14,765
and I definitely didn't, I wasn't given the plans,

579
00:30:14,825 --> 00:30:17,245
so I didn't really know too much about them.

580
00:30:17,445 --> 00:30:19,245
I came here to observe and learn. Okay.

581
00:30:19,545 --> 00:30:22,325
But my understanding based on the plans is they want

582
00:30:22,325 --> 00:30:24,085
to put a home directly in front of my property.

583
00:30:27,735 --> 00:30:30,085
Where is your property in relationship to this?

584
00:30:31,325 --> 00:30:32,565
I was trying to see from the back of the room.

585
00:30:32,605 --> 00:30:35,205
I could not. I live at 55 Pingree Hill Road.

586
00:30:35,225 --> 00:30:38,485
If you can see it based on the design of the road,

587
00:30:38,765 --> 00:30:41,005
I would say I'm at the top of lot one.

588
00:30:41,515 --> 00:30:44,725
Okay. So they want to put it in front of your house.

589
00:30:46,785 --> 00:30:48,165
Is that what prop house stands for?

590
00:30:49,355 --> 00:30:51,925
Prop proposed property house. Proposed a proposed house.

591
00:30:52,065 --> 00:30:53,925
It looks roughly where I live. I don't,

592
00:30:54,005 --> 00:30:57,085
I don't see my home listed on the map, so I don't know.

593
00:30:57,485 --> 00:30:58,605
I don't, no one came to talk to me.

594
00:30:58,605 --> 00:31:00,325
Well, I I don't think your home will be on this property

595
00:31:01,145 --> 00:31:02,525
Across the street from my property.

596
00:31:03,065 --> 00:31:04,125
Oh, I thought you said they're

597
00:31:04,125 --> 00:31:05,245
putting it in front of your house.

598
00:31:05,825 --> 00:31:07,325
Yes. Oh, across the street. You

599
00:31:07,565 --> 00:31:09,885
I would live across they, the current home 34.

600
00:31:10,625 --> 00:31:12,245
My neighbors that recently deceased

601
00:31:13,075 --> 00:31:14,565
that Craig bought their house.

602
00:31:14,755 --> 00:31:16,645
Okay. That they lived there for decades. Yep.

603
00:31:16,835 --> 00:31:18,205
I've lived in my house for seven years.

604
00:31:19,465 --> 00:31:20,765
My neighbors have all lived in the,

605
00:31:20,905 --> 00:31:22,765
the area for 40 plus years.

606
00:31:23,375 --> 00:31:26,605
Every one of 'em, none of us know Craig.

607
00:31:27,085 --> 00:31:30,085
I met him for the first time last meeting and it was brief.

608
00:31:31,105 --> 00:31:32,085
He didn't come to any of our

609
00:31:32,085 --> 00:31:33,165
houses and talk to us about this.

610
00:31:33,165 --> 00:31:34,805
And the only reason we heard about this was because

611
00:31:35,345 --> 00:31:36,285
You were notified. We were

612
00:31:36,445 --> 00:31:37,445
Informed.

613
00:31:37,445 --> 00:31:38,565
So still processing it to fair.

614
00:31:38,565 --> 00:31:40,125
You received, received a certified letter, correct?

615
00:31:40,475 --> 00:31:42,645
Correct. And I'm still processing it to be fair

616
00:31:42,645 --> 00:31:44,245
because I've lived in my home for seven years

617
00:31:44,625 --> 00:31:46,205
and the purpose of me buying my home

618
00:31:46,225 --> 00:31:47,365
for my family was the privacy.

619
00:31:48,485 --> 00:31:50,845
That was a big selling point to my family.

620
00:31:51,005 --> 00:31:54,485
I have two children and when we bought the home,

621
00:31:54,865 --> 00:31:57,405
we were actually told that it was conservation land.

622
00:31:57,585 --> 00:32:00,765
And I, a couple weeks ago found out it's

623
00:32:00,765 --> 00:32:01,845
not because of that letter.

624
00:32:02,265 --> 00:32:04,285
So then I looked into the land

625
00:32:04,385 --> 00:32:06,765
and I believe it's parallel to conservation land,

626
00:32:06,765 --> 00:32:09,525
which a little further in behind me is

627
00:32:09,525 --> 00:32:10,645
also conservation land.

628
00:32:11,105 --> 00:32:13,645
So in the seven years I've lived in my home,

629
00:32:14,675 --> 00:32:17,965
I've witnessed a lot of beautiful natural life.

630
00:32:18,945 --> 00:32:22,165
You know, frequent the property across the street.

631
00:32:22,245 --> 00:32:24,485
I watch turkeys sleep in those trees.

632
00:32:26,305 --> 00:32:29,285
And so for me to not know really what's happening,

633
00:32:29,505 --> 00:32:32,725
but to not let this pass by and not say a thing.

634
00:32:32,795 --> 00:32:34,605
Sure. I chose to be here tonight.

635
00:32:34,785 --> 00:32:38,685
And so my greatest opinion on this would be,

636
00:32:38,785 --> 00:32:41,325
it would be a catastrophe to tear down this beautiful forest

637
00:32:41,795 --> 00:32:43,725
that we have enjoyed in this neighborhood

638
00:32:44,265 --> 00:32:47,085
to put two homes on along with the existing home.

639
00:32:49,025 --> 00:32:51,805
And that is not of the character of the neighborhood.

640
00:32:52,145 --> 00:32:54,445
The neighborhood itself is very spread out now.

641
00:32:54,505 --> 00:32:57,205
My street is a five mile long street

642
00:32:57,655 --> 00:33:00,165
where we have four different towns on my street.

643
00:33:00,225 --> 00:33:01,525
I'm the last home in Derry.

644
00:33:02,585 --> 00:33:04,365
My next hou my next neighbor is Chester.

645
00:33:05,105 --> 00:33:07,885
You go down a little further, you get to Auburn, you go

646
00:33:07,885 --> 00:33:10,405
to the very end of the road, it becomes Manchester.

647
00:33:11,825 --> 00:33:14,645
If you walk that street, you'll notice that every home on

648
00:33:14,645 --> 00:33:16,965
that street does not typically have

649
00:33:18,165 --> 00:33:19,565
a home across the street from them.

650
00:33:19,665 --> 00:33:22,325
And they're spread out. It's a low density area.

651
00:33:22,345 --> 00:33:24,965
And that's the reason why I bought the home.

652
00:33:25,505 --> 00:33:27,365
And when I started my family,

653
00:33:28,385 --> 00:33:30,565
the day we bought the house was the day my son was

654
00:33:30,565 --> 00:33:31,605
born and moved in.

655
00:33:32,065 --> 00:33:33,965
And so that's all they've known.

656
00:33:34,985 --> 00:33:37,725
And I'm also very concerned about the construction.

657
00:33:38,465 --> 00:33:41,845
I'm in construction myself. I understand the timeline.

658
00:33:41,865 --> 00:33:43,925
It could be a long time to tear a forest

659
00:33:43,995 --> 00:33:45,605
down to build homes on.

660
00:33:46,075 --> 00:33:47,085
It's a dangerous corner.

661
00:33:47,565 --> 00:33:49,685
I watch kids all the time fly around that corner

662
00:33:49,865 --> 00:33:52,885
and then they gun it up our street for some fun.

663
00:33:53,685 --> 00:33:54,925
I can't imagine what it would be like

664
00:33:54,945 --> 00:33:57,205
to see construction trucks backing outta that area.

665
00:33:57,385 --> 00:33:58,805
And who knows what could happen.

666
00:33:59,325 --> 00:34:01,205
I have little kids, six and four years old.

667
00:34:02,085 --> 00:34:05,805
I I know our neighborhood walks that street regularly.

668
00:34:06,555 --> 00:34:08,045
It's a very comfortable neighborhood.

669
00:34:08,145 --> 00:34:11,125
We all know each other, we all say hello. I don't know.

670
00:34:11,125 --> 00:34:14,965
Craig and Craig didn't bother to get to know any of us.

671
00:34:15,345 --> 00:34:17,485
So this is alarming.

672
00:34:18,545 --> 00:34:20,285
And I am actually a little disappointed.

673
00:34:20,445 --> 00:34:21,605
I believe I'm the only person

674
00:34:22,085 --> 00:34:23,885
representing, I could be wrong.

675
00:34:24,225 --> 00:34:26,285
But that being said, a lot

676
00:34:26,285 --> 00:34:27,965
of this neighborhood is in for towns.

677
00:34:29,155 --> 00:34:31,965
It's not like anyone else was informed.

678
00:34:32,025 --> 00:34:33,205
My neighbors to the right of me,

679
00:34:33,205 --> 00:34:35,005
were not informed they're in Chester,

680
00:34:35,385 --> 00:34:36,965
but this is gonna happen right next to them.

681
00:34:40,545 --> 00:34:42,045
So That's Yeah.

682
00:34:42,045 --> 00:34:43,765
I'll leave it for questions. Yeah. What questions do you have?

683
00:34:43,785 --> 00:34:45,405
Me? So did you, and, and I understand where you're at,

684
00:34:45,475 --> 00:34:46,765
like, you know,

685
00:34:51,215 --> 00:34:52,925
urban growth right?

686
00:34:52,925 --> 00:34:56,445
Affects everybody. Time changes things and,

687
00:34:58,025 --> 00:35:01,725
and everybody particularly over the last handful

688
00:35:01,785 --> 00:35:04,245
of years has seen their environment change.

689
00:35:05,145 --> 00:35:10,085
And but where I would direct you to is the relative

690
00:35:10,085 --> 00:35:12,525
to the five criteria that were read into the record,

691
00:35:12,655 --> 00:35:15,045
which are your guidelines by statute.

692
00:35:16,065 --> 00:35:18,485
So first one is to the public, right, which would be me

693
00:35:18,825 --> 00:35:19,565
To the what? To

694
00:35:19,565 --> 00:35:22,005
The public Public interest. Yeah.

695
00:35:22,005 --> 00:35:24,005
It doesn't meet my interest on my, the the public.

696
00:35:24,995 --> 00:35:26,885
Well that's, that is true.

697
00:35:26,885 --> 00:35:30,645
However, you also have to balance the,

698
00:35:31,545 --> 00:35:33,845
the constitutional aspects that the,

699
00:35:34,275 --> 00:35:36,005
that the New Hampshire constitution allows.

700
00:35:36,005 --> 00:35:38,965
Then he has the right to buy a home and build land is

701
00:35:39,265 --> 00:35:40,405
or apply to build land.

702
00:35:40,425 --> 00:35:41,425
Is that what you're referring to?

703
00:35:42,445 --> 00:35:43,565
I didn't hear everything you said.

704
00:35:45,145 --> 00:35:46,725
Go ahead. I I apologize I cut you off.

705
00:35:46,765 --> 00:35:48,005
I should have just let you finish your sentence.

706
00:35:48,105 --> 00:35:50,445
No, just saying that the con the constitutional right to

707
00:35:50,445 --> 00:35:51,845
to buy land and develop it is

708
00:35:51,845 --> 00:35:53,085
what you're referring to. Yeah.

709
00:35:53,085 --> 00:35:55,685
Reasonable, excessive, that kind of thing. Right.

710
00:35:55,945 --> 00:35:59,005
And a lot of times that guide is your ordinances

711
00:35:59,145 --> 00:36:02,725
and what's allowed within a district and,

712
00:36:03,385 --> 00:36:04,805
and a zoning district.

713
00:36:04,805 --> 00:36:08,685
Right. And so the test here is that

714
00:36:10,145 --> 00:36:12,925
the third lot, which is lot one

715
00:36:13,445 --> 00:36:17,325
apparently across from your home, that's, that becomes the,

716
00:36:17,465 --> 00:36:20,485
the tipping point of those five criteria.

717
00:36:20,665 --> 00:36:25,205
And whether or not that lot is, is permitted

718
00:36:25,425 --> 00:36:28,085
or granted a variance and granted relief.

719
00:36:28,855 --> 00:36:32,765
Right. So you focus essentially wraps back

720
00:36:32,925 --> 00:36:34,405
around those five criteria

721
00:36:34,745 --> 00:36:38,085
and the it is up to the applicant to prove their case.

722
00:36:39,265 --> 00:36:42,565
And you could try to disprove that case.

723
00:36:43,625 --> 00:36:45,245
And so you're welcome to do so.

724
00:36:45,385 --> 00:36:47,885
I'm just giving you those guidelines, those rules that,

725
00:36:48,355 --> 00:36:50,685
that this board is obligated to follow.

726
00:36:51,175 --> 00:36:55,485
Right. So I made a few

727
00:36:55,935 --> 00:36:59,205
notes based on my last time spent here.

728
00:36:59,235 --> 00:37:01,525
This is the first two times I've ever

729
00:37:01,835 --> 00:37:03,325
visited a town hearing.

730
00:37:03,825 --> 00:37:05,925
So very unprepared for how they go.

731
00:37:06,025 --> 00:37:08,205
But didn't even realize I'd be on television.

732
00:37:10,475 --> 00:37:11,925
It's quite a show.

733
00:37:12,225 --> 00:37:13,645
How does it Feel? Interesting.

734
00:37:14,905 --> 00:37:17,925
I'm sure we all feel very interesting about it.

735
00:37:18,805 --> 00:37:21,285
I don't enjoy it. But I don't mind talking

736
00:37:21,305 --> 00:37:23,445
to you guys about this because I take this very serious.

737
00:37:23,805 --> 00:37:26,165
I am going to live in my home for a very long time.

738
00:37:26,445 --> 00:37:27,245
I don't plan on leaving

739
00:37:31,355 --> 00:37:32,405
down the road from us.

740
00:37:32,405 --> 00:37:35,765
English Ranch was recently developed

741
00:37:36,785 --> 00:37:39,645
on a hill where the home was sold

742
00:37:40,705 --> 00:37:43,285
and they built four, I believe four homes on that land.

743
00:37:46,155 --> 00:37:47,535
And now I've watched those

744
00:37:48,095 --> 00:37:50,015
surrounding neighbors sell their homes.

745
00:37:51,355 --> 00:37:54,535
And that's one of my biggest fears as well as a homeowner

746
00:37:54,635 --> 00:37:56,255
of this property on this land.

747
00:37:57,125 --> 00:38:00,495
I've watched people sell beautiful homes that I admired

748
00:38:01,115 --> 00:38:03,015
and enjoyed.

749
00:38:03,695 --> 00:38:04,735
I enjoyed passing by

750
00:38:04,835 --> 00:38:07,255
and I could not imagine selling the

751
00:38:07,255 --> 00:38:08,335
home that they're willing to sell.

752
00:38:08,395 --> 00:38:10,935
But I'm pretty positive it has a lot to do with

753
00:38:11,855 --> 00:38:14,855
somebody throwing four homes on a plot of land

754
00:38:15,475 --> 00:38:18,735
and we all hate it.

755
00:38:19,685 --> 00:38:22,015
Yeah. The, particularly in New Hampshire,

756
00:38:22,055 --> 00:38:25,015
I think the average median age is

757
00:38:25,585 --> 00:38:27,495
40, 49 years old.

758
00:38:27,955 --> 00:38:31,815
And like other states like Colorado, the median age is 29.

759
00:38:32,675 --> 00:38:35,640
But going beyond the median age, you have a, a lot of people

760
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:36,645
that are aging out.

761
00:38:38,005 --> 00:38:39,245
I think a lot of discussions

762
00:38:39,245 --> 00:38:43,165
that occur in within the state are that people would like

763
00:38:43,165 --> 00:38:44,685
to move, they'd like to downsize,

764
00:38:45,065 --> 00:38:49,005
but the, the way the economic drivers on housing is going

765
00:38:49,005 --> 00:38:52,645
right now, there's a lot of people that can't move and,

766
00:38:52,985 --> 00:38:55,205
or it doesn't make economic sense to do so.

767
00:38:55,865 --> 00:38:58,765
So those are the contrasting factors that

768
00:38:58,865 --> 00:39:00,725
as you're expressing this and

769
00:39:00,785 --> 00:39:03,245
and very well may be that those folks are moving

770
00:39:03,245 --> 00:39:06,045
because all of a sudden they've lost their force,

771
00:39:06,595 --> 00:39:07,685
whoever's phone that is.

772
00:39:07,685 --> 00:39:08,805
Could you shut that off please?

773
00:39:10,465 --> 00:39:12,565
I'm just contrasting your, your points. Right,

774
00:39:12,565 --> 00:39:13,565
That's fair.

775
00:39:14,545 --> 00:39:16,365
You know, if you go through the five criteria,

776
00:39:16,465 --> 00:39:17,525
the public interest,

777
00:39:18,625 --> 00:39:22,045
the argument very well could be the public interest is

778
00:39:22,235 --> 00:39:25,085
serving a direction that the state is pushing

779
00:39:25,265 --> 00:39:26,285
for economic drivers.

780
00:39:26,295 --> 00:39:29,125
Right. Your your your perception

781
00:39:29,125 --> 00:39:30,445
of public interest might be,

782
00:39:30,445 --> 00:39:32,005
well it's not in my public interest

783
00:39:32,005 --> 00:39:33,725
because I've enjoyed the wooded areas,

784
00:39:34,795 --> 00:39:36,885
Paid taxes to live on my property.

785
00:39:37,075 --> 00:39:38,925
Yeah. That's Seven straight years in

786
00:39:38,925 --> 00:39:40,125
dairy. It's not cheap.

787
00:39:40,865 --> 00:39:43,645
But there again, it's not your property. Right. And

788
00:39:43,785 --> 00:39:44,785
No.

789
00:39:44,785 --> 00:39:45,885
Correct. I i I figured I don't have much say in this,

790
00:39:45,885 --> 00:39:47,165
but I'm gonna say what I have to say

791
00:39:47,165 --> 00:39:50,525
because if I don't then I'm gonna regret letting this happen

792
00:39:50,585 --> 00:39:52,045
and not saying anything

793
00:39:52,045 --> 00:39:54,285
and then watch construction happen in front of my property

794
00:39:54,285 --> 00:39:56,445
for the next few years and watch a forest I've enjoyed

795
00:39:57,395 --> 00:39:59,845
sitting on my front porch and, and looking at and

796
00:40:01,385 --> 00:40:03,765
and watching it get torn down with no say would be

797
00:40:04,725 --> 00:40:06,125
a tremendous tragedy of my own.

798
00:40:06,725 --> 00:40:07,845
So that's why I'm here.

799
00:40:08,405 --> 00:40:10,125
I don't know if I'll have the right things to say,

800
00:40:10,545 --> 00:40:11,885
but I'm gonna say what I can

801
00:40:11,945 --> 00:40:13,445
or I'll gladly answer any questions.

802
00:40:13,445 --> 00:40:15,365
But if you want just send me pack in at some

803
00:40:15,365 --> 00:40:16,485
point. Just send me pack in.

804
00:40:16,715 --> 00:40:18,885
Yeah. And it's not to be dismissive, it's kind

805
00:40:18,885 --> 00:40:22,405
of giving you the overview of the ground rules that govern

806
00:40:22,635 --> 00:40:27,085
what we do and, and the education for yourself.

807
00:40:27,265 --> 00:40:31,125
You know, get familiar with what you're dealing with

808
00:40:31,425 --> 00:40:33,005
and, and hear you out.

809
00:40:33,185 --> 00:40:36,765
So. Sure. Is there anything else you wish to add?

810
00:40:38,125 --> 00:40:39,925
I hope it doesn't go through. I'm sorry.

811
00:40:40,085 --> 00:40:41,525
I hope it doesn't happen. Alright.

812
00:40:41,635 --> 00:40:44,685
Anybody don't go away. Anybody have any questions for Mr.

813
00:40:44,795 --> 00:40:48,925
Bresnahan? No. Thank you Mr. No. Okay. Very good. Thank you.

814
00:40:49,595 --> 00:40:51,885
Okay. Anybody else wish to speak in opposition?

815
00:40:55,225 --> 00:40:56,365
Seeing no one rise?

816
00:40:58,675 --> 00:41:00,605
Alright gentlemen, you wanna come back up?

817
00:41:09,865 --> 00:41:11,165
You of course have rebuttal

818
00:41:11,185 --> 00:41:13,645
to the remorseful losing the wooded lot

819
00:41:14,225 --> 00:41:15,365
and my suspect is

820
00:41:15,365 --> 00:41:18,365
that the real estate agent may have suggested one thing

821
00:41:18,365 --> 00:41:22,005
to the individual and that of course was not the case.

822
00:41:22,875 --> 00:41:25,445
Obviously otherwise you wouldn't be here if trying

823
00:41:25,445 --> 00:41:27,365
to build a house on conservation land, correct?

824
00:41:27,465 --> 00:41:30,325
No. Is that conservation land right next to lot one?

825
00:41:30,665 --> 00:41:31,845
Not that we know of, no. No.

826
00:41:32,845 --> 00:41:34,445
Just to clear up a couple of things, Mr.

827
00:41:34,685 --> 00:41:38,045
Chairman, we, we did notify folks in Chester. Yep.

828
00:41:38,665 --> 00:41:41,085
For whatever reason those folks in Chester have a,

829
00:41:41,085 --> 00:41:42,085
have a dairy address.

830
00:41:42,405 --> 00:41:43,845
I don't, I don't know why, but when you go

831
00:41:43,845 --> 00:41:46,525
to their assessing software, they, I checked it,

832
00:41:46,765 --> 00:41:48,525
I checked it twice 'cause I thought my staff had made a

833
00:41:48,525 --> 00:41:51,285
mistake, but they have dairy addresses.

834
00:41:51,525 --> 00:41:54,445
I don't know why. Maybe it has something to do

835
00:41:54,445 --> 00:41:58,005
with your postal service or something going into Chester.

836
00:41:58,225 --> 00:42:01,125
I'm not sure. But all the abutting parcels,

837
00:42:01,125 --> 00:42:02,885
including the Chester parcels were notified.

838
00:42:03,865 --> 00:42:05,645
We did speak with a couple of homeowners.

839
00:42:06,265 --> 00:42:08,845
One homeowner came out while we were digging test bits.

840
00:42:08,945 --> 00:42:12,845
We spoke with them. Craig is actually rehabbing the existing

841
00:42:12,845 --> 00:42:13,885
home for his daughter,

842
00:42:14,105 --> 00:42:15,805
so his daughter's gonna be inhabiting that house.

843
00:42:16,305 --> 00:42:18,845
So he does have stake in the property

844
00:42:18,985 --> 00:42:20,605
and it's not like he's just trying

845
00:42:20,605 --> 00:42:21,965
to develop it and flip everything.

846
00:42:22,105 --> 00:42:24,405
His daughter will be there and

847
00:42:24,755 --> 00:42:26,085
Craig's a pretty quality builder.

848
00:42:26,085 --> 00:42:27,245
He is done a lot of stuff in dairy

849
00:42:27,305 --> 00:42:29,485
and I think most of the stuff that he's done has,

850
00:42:29,505 --> 00:42:31,005
has turned out pretty well for the town.

851
00:42:32,645 --> 00:42:34,685
I I get it. You know, people don't want to see

852
00:42:35,235 --> 00:42:36,245
land get developed,

853
00:42:36,825 --> 00:42:39,365
but I do think that this is probably the highest in

854
00:42:39,385 --> 00:42:41,485
and best, you know, use for the property.

855
00:42:41,955 --> 00:42:43,205
It's zoned for residential use

856
00:42:43,265 --> 00:42:45,925
and there there's certainly plenty of area to develop.

857
00:42:47,395 --> 00:42:51,285
Yeah. The frontage seems more than ample.

858
00:42:51,625 --> 00:42:56,485
Yes. And you are almost there on the completed

859
00:42:56,485 --> 00:42:57,685
three, three lots.

860
00:42:57,745 --> 00:42:59,005
The three acre lots. Right.

861
00:42:59,125 --> 00:43:01,245
I mean, you're not, you're miss not missing it by much

862
00:43:02,025 --> 00:43:06,125
and essentially it has

863
00:43:07,595 --> 00:43:11,165
your protective rights as the property owner to do

864
00:43:11,195 --> 00:43:15,085
what you'd like other than putting up an industrial plant

865
00:43:15,145 --> 00:43:18,325
or something that just doesn't go with the ordinances.

866
00:43:18,325 --> 00:43:23,125
Right, right. Anybody else have any questions, Mr.

867
00:43:23,555 --> 00:43:26,285
Omba? Mr. Dietzel? No thank you to my left. Ms.

868
00:43:27,265 --> 00:43:29,245
Mrs. Morin or Mr. Donlan?

869
00:43:29,945 --> 00:43:33,485
No, sir. Okay. Ms.

870
00:43:33,485 --> 00:43:35,725
Boudreaux, do you have finding of facts at all?

871
00:43:42,745 --> 00:43:45,605
All right, well that being said, I would take a motion

872
00:43:45,705 --> 00:43:47,205
to go into deliberation,

873
00:43:48,795 --> 00:43:50,525
Make a motion to go into deliberation.

874
00:43:50,865 --> 00:43:51,865
Second.

875
00:44:00,745 --> 00:44:05,245
Motion made for deliberation seconded by Mr.

876
00:44:05,555 --> 00:44:08,245
Dietzel, correct? Correct. Yes sir.

877
00:44:08,905 --> 00:44:12,285
All in favor of deliberation, say aye. Aye. Any opposed?

878
00:44:13,475 --> 00:44:17,045
Hearing none. All right.

879
00:44:18,595 --> 00:44:21,205
Anybody wish to lead off Mr. Donlin?

880
00:44:22,425 --> 00:44:25,405
I'm sure Mr. Chair. I feel

881
00:44:25,425 --> 00:44:29,845
as though the five criteria have been met, specifically

882
00:44:31,145 --> 00:44:34,205
as it relates to the surrounding lot sizes

883
00:44:34,745 --> 00:44:39,125
and being similar to what's being proposed in this area.

884
00:44:39,305 --> 00:44:43,845
Is not ag egregiously off as far as

885
00:44:45,065 --> 00:44:47,605
the square footage under is concerned?

886
00:44:50,045 --> 00:44:51,205
Rel you know, especially relative

887
00:44:51,205 --> 00:44:52,605
to the surrounding lot sizes

888
00:44:52,825 --> 00:44:56,685
and the, the overage on the frontage as well

889
00:44:56,685 --> 00:44:59,805
as not needing any other variances as far

890
00:44:59,805 --> 00:45:01,565
as setbacks are concerned.

891
00:45:01,625 --> 00:45:04,405
And we're not worried about well and septics

892
00:45:04,425 --> 00:45:08,845
or shoehorning anything and speaking.

893
00:45:10,235 --> 00:45:14,605
That seems like a reasonable use of, of a lot in a time when

894
00:45:15,705 --> 00:45:17,165
people are looking for lots.

895
00:45:19,975 --> 00:45:21,385
Okay. Ms. Moore,

896
00:45:23,675 --> 00:45:28,145
While they were talking, I was writing down from the GIS

897
00:45:28,165 --> 00:45:30,625
for dairy, the lot sizes

898
00:45:30,725 --> 00:45:34,385
and there's only one that does go above the two acre lot.

899
00:45:34,405 --> 00:45:37,345
And I know it's not to set a precedent,

900
00:45:37,565 --> 00:45:40,385
but it would keep in with the character

901
00:45:40,385 --> 00:45:41,625
of the neighborhood though.

902
00:45:42,605 --> 00:45:47,505
So I feel that it meets the five criteria in

903
00:45:47,505 --> 00:45:48,665
that it would fit.

904
00:45:50,435 --> 00:45:54,895
Did you, you in indicated that in the surrounding lots,

905
00:45:54,925 --> 00:45:58,015
that you only found one that was above the two acres

906
00:45:58,155 --> 00:45:59,575
or, or less than Correct.

907
00:46:00,125 --> 00:46:01,415
It's three acre minimum,

908
00:46:01,525 --> 00:46:02,525
Correct.

909
00:46:02,525 --> 00:46:05,215
All, so I haven't gotten to the Chester butters yet,

910
00:46:05,955 --> 00:46:08,295
but the other 10

911
00:46:08,315 --> 00:46:10,175
or so were an acre,

912
00:46:11,165 --> 00:46:15,175
like across from the property it's 1.3, then 1.6

913
00:46:15,555 --> 00:46:16,935
and 1.59.

914
00:46:17,345 --> 00:46:20,415
Those are the acreages of those lots, correct? Yeah. Okay.

915
00:46:21,965 --> 00:46:24,455
Alright. Mr. Dietzel,

916
00:46:27,995 --> 00:46:30,535
I'm certainly sympathetic to Mr.

917
00:46:30,845 --> 00:46:35,575
Breenan his concerns, but

918
00:46:37,165 --> 00:46:39,485
whenever we build new houses, trees get cut down

919
00:46:40,185 --> 00:46:42,925
and I think probably when 55 Pingree Hill

920
00:46:43,665 --> 00:46:47,165
was built in 1977, they had to cut some trees down.

921
00:46:49,265 --> 00:46:51,085
So I'm gonna stick to the five criteria,

922
00:46:51,085 --> 00:46:53,445
particularly the one non-conforming lot.

923
00:46:53,625 --> 00:46:57,165
If we were just dividing it into the two three acre plus

924
00:46:57,475 --> 00:47:00,005
lots, then he would need a variance at all.

925
00:47:00,065 --> 00:47:02,405
So it's just that one non-conforming lot

926
00:47:02,405 --> 00:47:03,605
that we're discussing here.

927
00:47:05,305 --> 00:47:08,005
The reason we have the low density

928
00:47:09,715 --> 00:47:13,005
residential zone is to keep a rural feel,

929
00:47:13,525 --> 00:47:17,845
prevent overcrowding, proximity

930
00:47:17,845 --> 00:47:19,325
of the houses and so forth.

931
00:47:20,665 --> 00:47:22,565
And I think literally enforcing

932
00:47:22,565 --> 00:47:26,285
that ordinance in this particular non-conforming lot is,

933
00:47:26,385 --> 00:47:27,725
is really not feasible.

934
00:47:28,105 --> 00:47:32,805
And it would deny the property owner an opportunity

935
00:47:32,985 --> 00:47:36,005
to reasonably use this piece of property,

936
00:47:37,015 --> 00:47:40,245
given the proximity of the wetlands

937
00:47:40,545 --> 00:47:43,005
and just the nature of this lot.

938
00:47:43,825 --> 00:47:45,605
If we were to deny the variance,

939
00:47:45,605 --> 00:47:47,805
that lot would be essentially

940
00:47:49,245 --> 00:47:52,165
rendered useless as oppo.

941
00:47:52,435 --> 00:47:56,525
Well possibly just to expand the adjacent yard,

942
00:47:57,225 --> 00:48:00,005
but that's, that's not what the,

943
00:48:00,225 --> 00:48:02,005
the property owner is requesting.

944
00:48:02,125 --> 00:48:05,285
I think what he is requesting is reasonable.

945
00:48:05,885 --> 00:48:07,045
I don't think it, it,

946
00:48:08,945 --> 00:48:12,445
it substantially changes the, the

947
00:48:14,255 --> 00:48:17,195
the surrounding neighborhood character of the neighborhood,

948
00:48:17,195 --> 00:48:18,275
character of the neighborhood.

949
00:48:18,335 --> 00:48:20,515
And so I, I believe all five criteria are

950
00:48:20,515 --> 00:48:23,155
met. Thank you Mr. Chair.

951
00:48:23,415 --> 00:48:24,435
Yep. Mr. Rab Bimba,

952
00:48:24,975 --> 00:48:27,715
Not much to the, it's already been stated

953
00:48:29,575 --> 00:48:33,955
to emphasize that if, if we go by averages

954
00:48:33,955 --> 00:48:37,715
of the abiding lots, he's still within that number.

955
00:48:38,295 --> 00:48:40,195
And for the three parcels,

956
00:48:40,655 --> 00:48:43,435
the one he's requesting is still larger than

957
00:48:44,255 --> 00:48:46,355
if you look at just the numbers, the other lots

958
00:48:46,355 --> 00:48:47,555
that surround the area.

959
00:48:49,175 --> 00:48:54,035
So by quote unquote right, he'll still be able to subdivide

960
00:48:54,035 --> 00:48:55,475
and develop those properties.

961
00:48:57,115 --> 00:48:58,715
I feel they've met all the five criteria.

962
00:48:59,305 --> 00:49:00,795
They've been clearly stated

963
00:49:00,795 --> 00:49:03,075
by the members who've spoken prior.

964
00:49:03,595 --> 00:49:04,715
I have nothing else to add.

965
00:49:09,265 --> 00:49:12,995
Yeah, so the, you know, if you took away the oh seven,

966
00:49:13,055 --> 00:49:15,555
the oh six on the lots two and three,

967
00:49:15,655 --> 00:49:17,755
and you add it to this lot, one, they're off

968
00:49:17,755 --> 00:49:18,835
by half an acre.

969
00:49:18,855 --> 00:49:23,515
But I think the, the applicant expresses the

970
00:49:23,705 --> 00:49:26,315
general spear of the ordinance in this regard,

971
00:49:26,485 --> 00:49:30,395
which is still fairly rural development

972
00:49:31,095 --> 00:49:32,475
at three acres a piece.

973
00:49:33,025 --> 00:49:34,795
Understanding there's some peace

974
00:49:34,815 --> 00:49:37,195
and solitude that the neighbors probably have

975
00:49:37,195 --> 00:49:38,235
liked out in that area.

976
00:49:38,735 --> 00:49:41,395
Looked around there myself from time to time

977
00:49:42,575 --> 00:49:45,555
and it's a, it's a nice area.

978
00:49:47,015 --> 00:49:48,275
As I indicated to Mr.

979
00:49:48,465 --> 00:49:50,755
Bresnahan, the, you know, the, the basis

980
00:49:50,855 --> 00:49:53,235
of the arguments become, you know, the spirit

981
00:49:53,235 --> 00:49:56,555
of the ordinance or public interest and,

982
00:49:57,895 --> 00:50:02,715
and often what you end up finding on, on other decisions

983
00:50:02,825 --> 00:50:07,235
that the, the public interest is the

984
00:50:07,235 --> 00:50:08,315
development and,

985
00:50:09,975 --> 00:50:13,795
and more housing needs

986
00:50:13,985 --> 00:50:15,755
that are within the state.

987
00:50:15,905 --> 00:50:19,835
It's not the financial hardship that we preside over,

988
00:50:20,095 --> 00:50:22,075
but it is the basis of

989
00:50:22,105 --> 00:50:25,915
what the ordinances establish in their, in their sphere

990
00:50:25,915 --> 00:50:28,125
of the ordinance and their intention.

991
00:50:28,385 --> 00:50:33,005
So I think we have a concurrence there within the board.

992
00:50:35,175 --> 00:50:36,285
Let's structure the motion.

993
00:50:36,605 --> 00:50:41,325
I think it's pretty self-explanatory in that we often have

994
00:50:41,915 --> 00:50:45,725
lead off with subject to permits inspections,

995
00:50:48,325 --> 00:50:50,335
Then subject to planning board

996
00:50:51,515 --> 00:50:55,055
And subject to planning board review.

997
00:50:55,235 --> 00:50:59,575
Yes. I'm looking for that motion sheet.

998
00:50:59,675 --> 00:51:02,935
Do I have you have that one there? Yes.

999
00:51:03,475 --> 00:51:06,695
And subject to planning board subdivision approval.

1000
00:51:08,685 --> 00:51:09,255
Very good.

1001
00:51:14,385 --> 00:51:16,135
Other than those two conditions,

1002
00:51:16,725 --> 00:51:18,375
does anybody have any amendments

1003
00:51:18,395 --> 00:51:20,255
or addendums they'd like to add to the motion?

1004
00:51:21,675 --> 00:51:24,855
Seeing no adjusters, you're all set Mr. Donlin? I am sir.

1005
00:51:25,275 --> 00:51:28,935
All right. No, and but I just to say it out loud,

1006
00:51:29,075 --> 00:51:33,015
to take the abutters into consideration when building

1007
00:51:34,075 --> 00:51:35,175
is always friendly

1008
00:51:39,555 --> 00:51:40,845
Well, and understanding Mr.

1009
00:51:40,955 --> 00:51:43,925
Bresnahan point about safety as children

1010
00:51:44,185 --> 00:51:49,085
and yes, we understand the construction vehicles are, are in

1011
00:51:49,085 --> 00:51:50,285
and out of that area

1012
00:51:50,625 --> 00:51:55,205
and often professional truck drivers are more cautious than

1013
00:51:55,265 --> 00:51:57,645
the teenagers that are speeding up and down the hill

1014
00:51:57,745 --> 00:51:59,005
or up and down the road.

1015
00:51:59,985 --> 00:52:03,485
And so we don't take his commentary lightly.

1016
00:52:04,485 --> 00:52:09,085
I think we have the motion structured adequately.

1017
00:52:09,265 --> 00:52:11,125
So with that we can take a motion

1018
00:52:11,265 --> 00:52:12,525
to come out of deliberative.

1019
00:52:13,075 --> 00:52:14,645
I'll make the motion to come out

1020
00:52:14,745 --> 00:52:16,045
of the deliberative session.

1021
00:52:16,855 --> 00:52:18,725
Thank you Mr. Omba. Mr.

1022
00:52:18,905 --> 00:52:22,805
Donlin has a second All in favor of that and say aye. Aye.

1023
00:52:23,345 --> 00:52:26,965
And the opposed that

1024
00:52:27,045 --> 00:52:28,445
motion's on the floor.

1025
00:52:29,265 --> 00:52:33,205
And would you happen to have finding effect with you Mr.

1026
00:52:33,385 --> 00:52:35,805
Corbit? If you'd like, if you'd like to, if you do,

1027
00:52:35,805 --> 00:52:37,845
you're welcome to come up and, and

1028
00:52:38,505 --> 00:52:39,505
Sit with us.

1029
00:52:40,145 --> 00:52:41,845
We are at 1 1 3.

1030
00:52:56,545 --> 00:52:59,005
Do you have another motion sheet there?

1031
00:52:59,565 --> 00:53:01,165
I don't seem to have mine from this

1032
00:53:01,315 --> 00:53:01,965
Case. Can I find your

1033
00:53:01,965 --> 00:53:02,965
Motion?

1034
00:53:02,965 --> 00:53:03,285
Can you give this to Mr. Chair?

1035
00:53:04,205 --> 00:53:06,485
Thank you can. Oh, you've got one? Okay. Yeah. Thank you.

1036
00:53:07,435 --> 00:53:11,405
Alright. I think you, you do. I don't. Oh, you don't? Okay.

1037
00:53:11,405 --> 00:53:14,525
Alright. Alright.

1038
00:53:14,545 --> 00:53:16,885
So that motion was when I leave off,

1039
00:53:17,365 --> 00:53:18,365
I have to read the Motion.

1040
00:53:18,785 --> 00:53:20,885
Yes, read the motion please. Thank you.

1041
00:53:22,765 --> 00:53:27,245
I make a motion on case number two six dash 13

1042
00:53:27,665 --> 00:53:31,365
to grant a variance to the terms of article six,

1043
00:53:31,675 --> 00:53:36,005
section 1 65 dash 48 B one

1044
00:53:36,585 --> 00:53:40,245
of the town of dairy zoning ordinance to allow the property

1045
00:53:40,245 --> 00:53:44,565
to be subdivided into three lots where one

1046
00:53:44,585 --> 00:53:48,365
of the lots will have less than the three acre minimum

1047
00:53:48,865 --> 00:53:52,085
parcel ID 1 4 0 2 4

1048
00:53:53,095 --> 00:53:57,445
zoned LDR as presented with the following conditions.

1049
00:53:58,105 --> 00:54:01,885
We have two, one subject to obtaining all state

1050
00:54:02,025 --> 00:54:04,005
and town permits and inspections.

1051
00:54:04,705 --> 00:54:08,085
Two, subject to planning board subdivision approval.

1052
00:54:08,625 --> 00:54:10,365
And that concludes the reading of the motion.

1053
00:54:10,645 --> 00:54:11,645
I need a second,

1054
00:54:13,195 --> 00:54:14,445
I'll second motion.

1055
00:54:14,445 --> 00:54:17,165
Thank you Mr. Omba. It's motion seconded by Mr.

1056
00:54:17,445 --> 00:54:20,085
O Bimba motion on the floor.

1057
00:54:20,275 --> 00:54:24,965
Therefore we can evaluate the finding of fact

1058
00:54:28,585 --> 00:54:33,125
in the first leg of the finding of fact.

1059
00:54:35,325 --> 00:54:39,925
Contrary to the public interest, I would say

1060
00:54:39,955 --> 00:54:43,805
that the public interest is served more by

1061
00:54:45,305 --> 00:54:49,965
the development of the property versus any

1062
00:54:50,885 --> 00:54:52,005
takeaway from the public.

1063
00:54:52,965 --> 00:54:55,745
Mr. Dietzel, how do you feel about that? I

1064
00:54:55,905 --> 00:54:58,185
I agree with your analysis.

1065
00:54:58,925 --> 00:55:00,745
I'm sorry. I Agree with your analysis.

1066
00:55:00,935 --> 00:55:03,425
Very good. You have that Mrs. Boudreaux.

1067
00:55:03,425 --> 00:55:05,785
Alright, good enough. Mr. Omba,

1068
00:55:06,325 --> 00:55:07,325
Mr.

1069
00:55:07,325 --> 00:55:09,105
Chair. I do agree with your analysis.

1070
00:55:09,735 --> 00:55:14,545
Okay, Mr. Donlin? I do agree

1071
00:55:14,725 --> 00:55:17,875
In the, okay.

1072
00:55:18,415 --> 00:55:19,755
Mrs. Morn. Jerry,

1073
00:55:19,875 --> 00:55:22,795
I also agreed that it won't be contrary to the public

1074
00:55:23,115 --> 00:55:24,115
Interest.

1075
00:55:24,115 --> 00:55:24,835
Alright, is your microphone on?

1076
00:55:25,205 --> 00:55:29,355
Sorry. Okay, Mr. Viner, you have that All right?

1077
00:55:30,135 --> 00:55:34,635
Yes sir. Alright. Spirit of the ordinance, the intention

1078
00:55:34,695 --> 00:55:38,435
of the spirit of the ordinance has been expressed as,

1079
00:55:41,655 --> 00:55:46,035
as keeping open spaces and,

1080
00:55:47,015 --> 00:55:50,595
and more spread out development.

1081
00:55:52,295 --> 00:55:56,435
And though lot one does not meet the

1082
00:55:56,975 --> 00:55:57,395
entire

1083
00:56:02,745 --> 00:56:06,955
acreage requirement, it gives ample frontage

1084
00:56:07,055 --> 00:56:09,755
to the property and it also

1085
00:56:12,255 --> 00:56:15,355
has the intention of meeting that, that

1086
00:56:16,855 --> 00:56:18,155
spread out development.

1087
00:56:21,695 --> 00:56:25,165
Mr. Donlin, how does that strike you?

1088
00:56:25,925 --> 00:56:28,885
I certainly agree and with respect to that, the

1089
00:56:29,565 --> 00:56:31,485
neighboring properties, with the exception

1090
00:56:31,485 --> 00:56:35,645
of the two three acre parcels within the subdivision,

1091
00:56:35,715 --> 00:56:37,405
this will be the,

1092
00:56:38,185 --> 00:56:42,125
the undersized lot will still be the second largest lot in

1093
00:56:42,125 --> 00:56:43,765
the forest in the near

1094
00:56:45,725 --> 00:56:47,685
neighboring area. I guess you could say

1095
00:56:48,465 --> 00:56:49,465
Ms.

1096
00:56:49,465 --> 00:56:50,105
Mrs. Moore

1097
00:56:50,855 --> 00:56:53,965
Chair being familiar with that part of town.

1098
00:56:54,265 --> 00:56:58,045
In looking at the spirit of ordinance, pinky Hill

1099
00:56:58,225 --> 00:57:01,445
and English range, both have numerous duplexes.

1100
00:57:01,705 --> 00:57:05,765
So I could see maybe that was what they were trying to stop.

1101
00:57:06,085 --> 00:57:10,565
I have no clue why the reason was the ordinance was made,

1102
00:57:10,565 --> 00:57:12,245
but that would've been my best guess.

1103
00:57:12,905 --> 00:57:16,325
So I agree that it doesn't go against the spirit

1104
00:57:16,345 --> 00:57:17,965
of the ordinance as it's

1105
00:57:18,695 --> 00:57:21,525
still plenty large in the, with the frontage.

1106
00:57:22,515 --> 00:57:24,405
Very good. Mr. Dietzel?

1107
00:57:25,725 --> 00:57:27,605
I agree. I don't think it,

1108
00:57:30,105 --> 00:57:32,565
it conflicts with the basic zoning objectives

1109
00:57:32,585 --> 00:57:34,445
to a market market degree.

1110
00:57:36,125 --> 00:57:37,205
I think it's reasonable.

1111
00:57:37,755 --> 00:57:39,085
Very good. Mr. Omba,

1112
00:57:39,645 --> 00:57:41,285
I to agree.

1113
00:57:41,805 --> 00:57:44,965
I believe that the purpose of the ordinance

1114
00:57:45,025 --> 00:57:46,845
to promote health safety

1115
00:57:47,385 --> 00:57:49,965
and not of a crowd, the area

1116
00:57:50,985 --> 00:57:52,565
is being met given the size

1117
00:57:52,565 --> 00:57:55,365
of the lot we've seen in the evidence

1118
00:57:55,925 --> 00:57:59,965
provided to the board that the septic, the well have enough

1119
00:58:02,435 --> 00:58:06,325
area to be placed, all the frontages are being made.

1120
00:58:06,645 --> 00:58:08,645
I do believe that we are meeting

1121
00:58:08,705 --> 00:58:09,845
the spirit of the ordinance.

1122
00:58:10,495 --> 00:58:13,205
Right. Substantial justice.

1123
00:58:13,765 --> 00:58:17,405
I think Mrs. Moore brought forward the other size

1124
00:58:17,465 --> 00:58:19,045
of lots along the road

1125
00:58:19,505 --> 00:58:23,245
and those are now non-conforming lots though we're not going

1126
00:58:23,245 --> 00:58:25,085
to require them to tear their homes down

1127
00:58:25,085 --> 00:58:26,445
to meet this requirement.

1128
00:58:26,865 --> 00:58:30,965
But I think substantial justice works in this regard that

1129
00:58:32,305 --> 00:58:34,765
the best development of this parcel,

1130
00:58:35,705 --> 00:58:38,045
the eight point whatever acres

1131
00:58:41,145 --> 00:58:42,925
is fair and,

1132
00:58:43,745 --> 00:58:48,085
and matches the overall development of the neighborhood

1133
00:58:48,225 --> 00:58:51,485
that's been in development for 50 years plus.

1134
00:58:53,505 --> 00:58:55,485
Mr. Donald, you have anything tied to

1135
00:58:55,485 --> 00:58:56,525
that or is that acceptable?

1136
00:58:56,605 --> 00:58:58,045
I agree that seems reasonable.

1137
00:58:58,515 --> 00:59:01,245
Okay. Mrs. Morhan Chair? I agree.

1138
00:59:02,465 --> 00:59:05,565
Mr. Dietzel, I also agree for recent stated,

1139
00:59:06,035 --> 00:59:07,035
Okay.

1140
00:59:07,035 --> 00:59:07,645
Mr. O Bimba. I

1141
00:59:07,645 --> 00:59:08,645
Do agree Mr. Chair.

1142
00:59:09,355 --> 00:59:12,645
Okay. The values of surrounding properties,

1143
00:59:18,045 --> 00:59:20,145
the development meets the,

1144
00:59:20,405 --> 00:59:24,525
of these parcels meets the overall layout of the road.

1145
00:59:25,745 --> 00:59:28,165
Do we see that more homes there

1146
00:59:28,865 --> 00:59:32,925
and probably pricier homes are going

1147
00:59:32,925 --> 00:59:37,045
to be a detriment to the, to the values

1148
00:59:37,105 --> 00:59:38,645
of the surrounding properties?

1149
00:59:40,815 --> 00:59:44,455
I certainly don't think so. Okay. Mrs. Moore?

1150
00:59:45,735 --> 00:59:47,095
I don't think so as well.

1151
00:59:47,455 --> 00:59:50,135
I do remember on English range them showing

1152
00:59:51,165 --> 00:59:55,095
when new properties are built that it, if anything, it helps

1153
00:59:55,795 --> 00:59:57,175
the other property values.

1154
00:59:59,315 --> 01:00:04,295
Oh yes. The old rising tides lift all boats thing. Right.

1155
01:00:04,475 --> 01:00:05,575
Mr. Dietzel?

1156
01:00:07,615 --> 01:00:11,575
I agree. For recent stated, Okay. Mr. Omba,

1157
01:00:13,335 --> 01:00:16,975
I believe new homes will increase the value

1158
01:00:16,995 --> 01:00:18,295
of surrounding properties.

1159
01:00:18,695 --> 01:00:23,535
I was doing some research on the property that was mentioned

1160
01:00:23,535 --> 01:00:27,735
that was sold and it fetched a pretty good sum

1161
01:00:27,875 --> 01:00:29,215
and I'm assuming it's

1162
01:00:29,415 --> 01:00:31,655
'cause the new houses were also pretty very

1163
01:00:31,655 --> 01:00:32,855
expensive in the area.

1164
01:00:33,675 --> 01:00:38,395
So I believe that the values

1165
01:00:38,455 --> 01:00:41,555
of surrounding properties will be increased.

1166
01:00:42,065 --> 01:00:46,675
Okay. So a hardship, the

1167
01:00:47,195 --> 01:00:51,155
hardship here is that the, in my view is

1168
01:00:51,155 --> 01:00:55,115
that the parcel is not a perfect cube

1169
01:00:55,615 --> 01:00:59,115
and the, the geography

1170
01:00:59,575 --> 01:01:01,555
and the size of the parcel

1171
01:01:02,135 --> 01:01:05,395
and its shape create a hardship

1172
01:01:05,865 --> 01:01:10,435
that would leave significant amount of the, of the land

1173
01:01:13,475 --> 01:01:18,355
unusable for the intent that this district has provided.

1174
01:01:20,455 --> 01:01:23,595
Mr. Donlin, how do you feel on that?

1175
01:01:24,315 --> 01:01:27,995
I agree and I'll add to the, I agree with what you said

1176
01:01:27,995 --> 01:01:29,235
and I'll add to that, that it's

1177
01:01:32,945 --> 01:01:35,555
just shy of the nine and,

1178
01:01:35,775 --> 01:01:38,075
and certainly while this,

1179
01:01:38,285 --> 01:01:41,275
these parcels were being divided up some 50 years ago,

1180
01:01:41,855 --> 01:01:44,435
if it was in keeping with everything else around

1181
01:01:44,465 --> 01:01:46,435
that was like a one or a one

1182
01:01:46,435 --> 01:01:49,995
and a half acre lot prior to any changes in the zoning.

1183
01:01:51,305 --> 01:01:53,435
This, I mean, conceivably could be five

1184
01:01:53,435 --> 01:01:57,715
or six lots if it was happened to be developed back then.

1185
01:01:58,185 --> 01:01:59,435
Yeah. Good

1186
01:01:59,435 --> 01:02:03,795
point. Mrs. Moore,

1187
01:02:04,635 --> 01:02:06,715
I agree with what has been stated

1188
01:02:07,015 --> 01:02:11,675
and there where the natural line

1189
01:02:12,435 --> 01:02:16,475
property line is to that you really can't try to take from

1190
01:02:17,525 --> 01:02:21,485
other properties without it looking or being in odd shape

1191
01:02:23,465 --> 01:02:24,925
or more odd shape, I guess

1192
01:02:27,265 --> 01:02:28,325
Mr. Dietzel,

1193
01:02:29,285 --> 01:02:30,285
I, I think Mr.

1194
01:02:30,285 --> 01:02:31,645
Donlin made a very good point

1195
01:02:31,665 --> 01:02:34,885
and I agree that the fifth criterion, the,

1196
01:02:34,885 --> 01:02:37,445
the hardship criterion has been met, met

1197
01:02:39,135 --> 01:02:40,445
based on the recent stated

1198
01:02:43,145 --> 01:02:45,835
Mr. Bumba,

1199
01:02:46,795 --> 01:02:48,795
I am in agreement with what's been stated.

1200
01:02:51,675 --> 01:02:53,835
I look at the ship of the property and, and,

1201
01:02:53,835 --> 01:02:58,355
and the problem the wetland creates,

1202
01:02:58,935 --> 01:03:02,995
it makes it difficult to subdivide this to meet

1203
01:03:03,855 --> 01:03:07,035
zoning ordinance requirements

1204
01:03:07,135 --> 01:03:10,355
and still be able to make good use of that third parcel.

1205
01:03:12,935 --> 01:03:17,345
Okay, I think that wraps up our finding of fact.

1206
01:03:20,245 --> 01:03:23,945
All in favor of moving this motion for votes. Aye. Aye. Aye.

1207
01:03:23,945 --> 01:03:27,495
Any opposed? Mrs. Moore

1208
01:03:27,745 --> 01:03:28,695
Chair? I vote yes.

1209
01:03:29,275 --> 01:03:33,695
Mr. Dietzel? Yes. Mr. Donlin? Yes.

1210
01:03:34,555 --> 01:03:35,815
Mr. Omba? Yes.

1211
01:03:36,955 --> 01:03:39,535
The chair will make that unanimous as well

1212
01:03:39,595 --> 01:03:41,055
by a vote of five to zero.

1213
01:03:42,525 --> 01:03:46,095
Anybody agree by this decision has 30 days to ask this board

1214
01:03:46,115 --> 01:03:47,175
for reconsideration?

1215
01:03:47,385 --> 01:03:49,535
After that recourse will be superior of court.

1216
01:03:49,915 --> 01:03:51,335
Congratulations gentlemen.

1217
01:03:51,905 --> 01:03:53,655
Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate it. Thank you.

1218
01:04:04,235 --> 01:04:05,235
Hey Greg,

1219
01:04:08,085 --> 01:04:09,085
Welcome back.

1220
01:04:10,635 --> 01:04:12,975
Did somebody leave a cell phone here? Yes. Someone

1221
01:04:14,125 --> 01:04:15,125
Message.

1222
01:04:15,125 --> 01:04:16,255
Who is this? Just counter every

1223
01:04:19,795 --> 01:04:21,535
Ms. Owen, is this yours?

1224
01:04:23,165 --> 01:04:25,855
Yeah. Yep.

1225
01:04:28,445 --> 01:04:29,655
Just a scary note.

1226
01:04:42,595 --> 01:04:47,575
Do we have, are we on to 1 0 7 at this point?

1227
01:04:47,875 --> 01:04:48,215
We are.

1228
01:05:04,225 --> 01:05:06,735
Who's here for 26 and a half? Ballard Road.

1229
01:05:09,725 --> 01:05:12,535
Okay, We had a case

1230
01:05:12,765 --> 01:05:15,295
that was 26 dash one 15.

1231
01:05:15,475 --> 01:05:16,615
Is there anybody here for that?

1232
01:05:18,235 --> 01:05:20,245
Alright, so that has been tabled

1233
01:05:20,345 --> 01:05:25,345
to the next meeting folks.

1234
01:05:27,225 --> 01:05:30,805
26 dash one 15 has been tabled to the next meeting date.

1235
01:05:33,565 --> 01:05:36,205
I just see a lot of people here so I just wanna make sure

1236
01:05:36,235 --> 01:05:38,245
that we've cleared up everything.

1237
01:05:39,465 --> 01:05:42,485
Is anybody here for 26 dash one 16,

1238
01:05:42,575 --> 01:05:44,365
which is the Kilduff Realty?

1239
01:05:46,305 --> 01:05:49,405
Are the presenters here for that case? You are. Okay.

1240
01:05:49,405 --> 01:05:53,005
Alright. Makes sense about all the people.

1241
01:05:55,225 --> 01:05:56,765
All right, we're gonna see how we do here.

1242
01:06:00,425 --> 01:06:03,925
We may not get to that last case I mentioned.

1243
01:06:06,855 --> 01:06:08,445
Let's see how we do in the next hour.

1244
01:06:09,025 --> 01:06:13,685
All right, next case up is 26 dash one 13.

1245
01:06:13,945 --> 01:06:17,885
We have been, I'm sorry, 26 dash 1 0 7

1246
01:06:19,195 --> 01:06:22,765
Bird Enterprises, LLC, Mr.

1247
01:06:23,505 --> 01:06:26,245
KO and Mr. Dresser, you wish to come up please?

1248
01:06:30,865 --> 01:06:32,045
You all set on that?

1249
01:06:37,395 --> 01:06:39,965
Alright gentlemen, so you gave us some amendments

1250
01:06:40,425 --> 01:06:41,425
Yes.

1251
01:06:41,425 --> 01:06:42,845
To sign? Yes. And thank you Mr.

1252
01:06:42,855 --> 01:06:45,325
Chair for this last opportunity to speak.

1253
01:06:45,385 --> 01:06:47,645
So we sent in a couple letters.

1254
01:06:47,765 --> 01:06:52,165
I was hoping to get in, get them in on one on May 29th.

1255
01:06:52,225 --> 01:06:56,245
But we were still waiting to hear from the my client's

1256
01:06:57,035 --> 01:06:58,125
sign person, if you will.

1257
01:06:59,705 --> 01:07:02,325
So basically what we've

1258
01:07:02,565 --> 01:07:04,085
provided to you, I do have extra copies

1259
01:07:04,185 --> 01:07:06,285
of this exhibit in case anybody doesn't have it.

1260
01:07:07,295 --> 01:07:10,965
We've revised the, signed to some extent

1261
01:07:11,525 --> 01:07:14,885
essentially in, in a nutshell, smaller, shorter, darker.

1262
01:07:16,545 --> 01:07:19,525
And so the letter that is dated May 29th,

1263
01:07:21,195 --> 01:07:22,725
both these letters are meant to more

1264
01:07:22,725 --> 01:07:24,245
or less be very matter of fact

1265
01:07:25,785 --> 01:07:29,325
was just acknowledging the differences that between,

1266
01:07:30,025 --> 01:07:31,165
you know, previous plans that have

1267
01:07:31,165 --> 01:07:32,245
been presented to you in this one.

1268
01:07:32,245 --> 01:07:34,285
And so I'll just read them for the sake of the record.

1269
01:07:35,085 --> 01:07:37,285
And these were altered in light of comments

1270
01:07:37,425 --> 01:07:39,125
by the ZBA as well as the abutters.

1271
01:07:39,545 --> 01:07:41,925
The sign pole now stands at 13 feet total height,

1272
01:07:41,925 --> 01:07:43,645
which is down from 15 feet

1273
01:07:43,645 --> 01:07:45,965
and 11 inches from the original proposal.

1274
01:07:47,225 --> 01:07:49,445
The maximum height of the proposed signs boxes,

1275
01:07:49,545 --> 01:07:53,285
that's the actual signs themselves, is at 12 feet

1276
01:07:53,625 --> 01:07:55,325
and five inches.

1277
01:07:55,325 --> 01:07:56,765
That's how high they go.

1278
01:07:57,785 --> 01:08:01,165
Two, the proposed sign box dimensions are 60 inches wide

1279
01:08:01,465 --> 01:08:04,205
by 102 inches tall.

1280
01:08:05,255 --> 01:08:06,925
Those figures are relative

1281
01:08:06,925 --> 01:08:08,845
to both those sign boxes together.

1282
01:08:09,845 --> 01:08:12,845
Thus the individual height for each box is 51 inches.

1283
01:08:14,305 --> 01:08:18,725
The figures are down from 120 inches tall collectively from

1284
01:08:19,035 --> 01:08:20,765
both boxes from the original proposal.

1285
01:08:21,775 --> 01:08:26,125
Third, the proposed sign's lower box is 43 inches from the

1286
01:08:26,125 --> 01:08:29,405
ground, which is down from 72 inches

1287
01:08:30,155 --> 01:08:31,445
from the original proposal.

1288
01:08:32,545 --> 01:08:37,005
And as to lighting this,

1289
01:08:37,035 --> 01:08:38,805
this new, this new version

1290
01:08:38,805 --> 01:08:41,285
that we've presented here will be constructed

1291
01:08:41,355 --> 01:08:43,805
with an opaque vinyl around it.

1292
01:08:44,745 --> 01:08:45,765
And you get a sense of that.

1293
01:08:45,765 --> 01:08:47,365
If you look at this exhibit here,

1294
01:08:47,865 --> 01:08:49,765
we have a day view and a night view.

1295
01:08:49,785 --> 01:08:50,845
And this is the night view.

1296
01:08:51,505 --> 01:08:53,845
And as you can see, the sign's been made to look dark

1297
01:08:53,845 --> 01:08:56,645
because that has that opaque back to it,

1298
01:08:56,895 --> 01:08:58,445
which I've been told.

1299
01:08:58,645 --> 01:09:01,445
I had a conversation with his sound, excuse me,

1300
01:09:01,445 --> 01:09:03,405
sign designer who told me absolutely no light gets

1301
01:09:03,405 --> 01:09:08,125
through the opa and by doing so, this reduces the lumens

1302
01:09:08,125 --> 01:09:11,885
by more than 50%, which is more than what we even

1303
01:09:13,085 --> 01:09:15,445
opined about at the last hearing, which was 25%.

1304
01:09:15,465 --> 01:09:17,605
And finally there was a little light at the very top

1305
01:09:17,705 --> 01:09:19,645
of the post, which is now gone.

1306
01:09:20,585 --> 01:09:22,125
And then on June 1st we

1307
01:09:22,365 --> 01:09:25,005
provided a letter just and I, I believe it was Mr.

1308
01:09:25,005 --> 01:09:26,525
Corbitt that originally asked for this stuff

1309
01:09:26,525 --> 01:09:29,365
and I wanted to get it to him, which is is some more

1310
01:09:29,765 --> 01:09:31,445
specifications as to lighting.

1311
01:09:32,365 --> 01:09:35,325
So when I spoke with the engineer, he advised

1312
01:09:35,635 --> 01:09:38,525
that the light output now is going to be

1313
01:09:40,565 --> 01:09:42,525
about 70 to 75%

1314
01:09:43,005 --> 01:09:46,165
diffused if you want numbers.

1315
01:09:46,965 --> 01:09:48,885
The L the LEDs that are

1316
01:09:48,885 --> 01:09:52,605
inside the signs emit 7,448 lumens

1317
01:09:53,885 --> 01:09:56,885
applying that 70% reduction from the new material

1318
01:09:56,885 --> 01:09:58,165
that will be covering those lights.

1319
01:09:58,235 --> 01:09:59,485
It's an estimated output

1320
01:09:59,485 --> 01:10:03,005
of 5,214 lumens through that signed face.

1321
01:10:03,705 --> 01:10:07,045
The newly added blackout film that we have there

1322
01:10:07,105 --> 01:10:09,485
to the background, no, virtually no light comes through that

1323
01:10:10,345 --> 01:10:14,725
and it's estimated that approximately 50

1324
01:10:14,825 --> 01:10:17,805
to 60% of the illuminated area is going to be blocked,

1325
01:10:18,475 --> 01:10:20,405
resulting in a visible light output.

1326
01:10:20,425 --> 01:10:24,005
And this is really at nighttime of 2100

1327
01:10:24,065 --> 01:10:26,165
to 2,600 lumens.

1328
01:10:26,305 --> 01:10:28,005
So of course I don't know what a lumen is,

1329
01:10:28,625 --> 01:10:29,725
so I had to look that up.

1330
01:10:30,105 --> 01:10:32,165
And so for some per perspective,

1331
01:10:32,785 --> 01:10:36,245
2000 lumens are the equivalent of a 27 to 50

1332
01:10:37,645 --> 01:10:38,965
LED watt light bulb

1333
01:10:39,345 --> 01:10:43,045
or about a 150 watt incandescent bulb.

1334
01:10:44,025 --> 01:10:45,685
And that was the information

1335
01:10:45,685 --> 01:10:48,525
that we've submitted since we last met.

1336
01:10:48,525 --> 01:10:50,125
We're happy to answer any questions if we can.

1337
01:10:51,425 --> 01:10:53,645
Do you, you still are proposing a,

1338
01:10:54,045 --> 01:10:57,645
a timeline on when this light is going to go off, is that

1339
01:10:57,645 --> 01:10:58,645
Correct?

1340
01:10:58,645 --> 01:10:59,765
Yeah, I think, I think we'll we'll stand by what we had

1341
01:10:59,765 --> 01:11:02,245
before, which was there would be a timer set

1342
01:11:02,245 --> 01:11:05,245
that would effectively go on when it starts to get dark

1343
01:11:05,245 --> 01:11:06,925
and it's off by nine I believe this time.

1344
01:11:06,925 --> 01:11:08,525
Yes. Yeah. Nine 9:00 PM that area. Yep.

1345
01:11:08,525 --> 01:11:12,925
Yep. And you had a down lighting on the topper

1346
01:11:13,025 --> 01:11:14,925
of this post is that the topper will

1347
01:11:14,925 --> 01:11:17,565
Be Removed it so there's not going to be a light on

1348
01:11:17,565 --> 01:11:18,565
There.

1349
01:11:18,565 --> 01:11:18,805
That's correct. It's gone. Okay.

1350
01:11:22,745 --> 01:11:25,245
So passerbys are going to be able to identify

1351
01:11:25,275 --> 01:11:29,325
with this location and safely and,

1352
01:11:30,825 --> 01:11:33,725
and it sounds like you've been able to decrease the,

1353
01:11:34,345 --> 01:11:36,965
the element that will affect any, any

1354
01:11:36,965 --> 01:11:39,645
of the really two abutters in this matter? I

1355
01:11:39,645 --> 01:11:41,725
Think I've done everything I possibly can do.

1356
01:11:41,725 --> 01:11:43,245
Yeah. Yeah. I, I think, I think, yeah,

1357
01:11:43,245 --> 01:11:45,605
the applicant I think has done a lot to, to try to,

1358
01:11:45,705 --> 01:11:47,365
you know, you know, we, we, we heard everybody

1359
01:11:47,385 --> 01:11:48,725
and we're we're doing what we can.

1360
01:11:48,995 --> 01:11:51,405
Yeah. We'll never make everybody happy, you know, so.

1361
01:11:51,405 --> 01:11:53,965
Yeah. Yeah. And the questions in this regard, by the way,

1362
01:11:53,985 --> 01:11:56,765
are more to make sure that it's clarified for the record

1363
01:11:56,875 --> 01:11:58,045
what your changes are.

1364
01:11:59,105 --> 01:12:00,885
Do you still want the motion

1365
01:12:01,145 --> 01:12:04,125
for lighting separated from the motion of the sign

1366
01:12:04,125 --> 01:12:06,125
or you want to keep those combined?

1367
01:12:07,245 --> 01:12:09,565
I, I have no objection to that. Okay. You're

1368
01:12:09,565 --> 01:12:10,565
Alright.

1369
01:12:10,565 --> 01:12:10,965
Fine. Okay.

1370
01:12:11,975 --> 01:12:14,525
We'll have to make that motion on the fly I think

1371
01:12:14,725 --> 01:12:17,005
'cause I, I think we I didn't do that.

1372
01:12:17,525 --> 01:12:20,125
I didn't do that housekeeping though. It had dawned on me

1373
01:12:23,755 --> 01:12:24,755
That worse.

1374
01:12:25,985 --> 01:12:28,285
I'm sorry that Mumble was worse than, oh, sorry.

1375
01:12:30,235 --> 01:12:33,325
Alright. Anything you wish to add here?

1376
01:12:33,885 --> 01:12:34,765
I think, I think we've,

1377
01:12:34,815 --> 01:12:36,125
we've said all that can be said at,

1378
01:12:36,465 --> 01:12:37,465
So Ms.

1379
01:12:37,465 --> 01:12:40,085
Oland, you've sent out these proposals

1380
01:12:40,185 --> 01:12:41,365
to three of the abutters.

1381
01:12:41,705 --> 01:12:43,405
Did you hear anything back? I did

1382
01:12:43,405 --> 01:12:44,405
Not.

1383
01:12:44,405 --> 01:12:46,165
Okay. Very good. With that being said,

1384
01:12:46,255 --> 01:12:48,125
we'll take a motion, go into deliberation.

1385
01:12:51,105 --> 01:12:52,245
Are we not in public

1386
01:12:52,245 --> 01:12:53,245
Session Now?

1387
01:12:53,245 --> 01:12:55,005
You are. Your hearing time is done.

1388
01:12:55,265 --> 01:12:56,605
You can sit down. We're not in

1389
01:12:56,605 --> 01:12:57,605
Public session Now.

1390
01:12:57,865 --> 01:12:59,525
We are. This is, we move out

1391
01:12:59,565 --> 01:13:01,165
A public session at the end of the last hearing.

1392
01:13:01,435 --> 01:13:05,285
This is not a public session. We followed our policies.

1393
01:13:05,505 --> 01:13:08,845
All abutters were given an opportunity to rebut. So

1394
01:13:08,845 --> 01:13:10,045
You were moved into deliberative

1395
01:13:10,045 --> 01:13:11,045
Session.

1396
01:13:11,045 --> 01:13:12,405
We are moving into deliberative session. You've already

1397
01:13:12,405 --> 01:13:13,405
Moved into deliberative Session.

1398
01:13:13,625 --> 01:13:16,365
We are moving into deliberative session right now. Is this a

1399
01:13:16,365 --> 01:13:17,365
Public hearing or not?

1400
01:13:17,435 --> 01:13:19,445
This is not a public hearing. This what is this?

1401
01:13:19,595 --> 01:13:23,205
This is their opportunity to make their formal request

1402
01:13:23,275 --> 01:13:26,605
that they are altering their original motion and,

1403
01:13:26,825 --> 01:13:29,005
and compromising to the abutters.

1404
01:13:29,185 --> 01:13:32,285
So they have, I'm not going to go back and forth, Mr. Foley.

1405
01:13:32,305 --> 01:13:33,925
You can return to your seat, but breaking the law.

1406
01:13:34,365 --> 01:13:35,605
I am not breaking the law. They have

1407
01:13:35,605 --> 01:13:36,605
Submitted a new proposal.

1408
01:13:36,795 --> 01:13:38,405
They accepted after you went into

1409
01:13:38,835 --> 01:13:40,605
session and the fact of the matter,

1410
01:13:40,905 --> 01:13:42,885
We have not gone into deliberative session

1411
01:13:43,135 --> 01:13:44,405
until right now hearing

1412
01:13:44,565 --> 01:13:46,525
I have the right to speak since they've always,

1413
01:13:46,555 --> 01:13:47,645
they have spoken again.

1414
01:13:47,825 --> 01:13:49,925
Mr. Dresser, you have any comments here,

1415
01:13:51,585 --> 01:13:52,585
Mr.

1416
01:13:52,585 --> 01:13:55,325
Chair? At our last hearing that was supposed

1417
01:13:55,325 --> 01:13:58,005
to be our last final word, there was a request made to us

1418
01:13:58,145 --> 01:14:01,005
to provide some last bit information

1419
01:14:01,005 --> 01:14:04,125
that was really just matter of fact as I just read,

1420
01:14:04,555 --> 01:14:05,885
that has been submitted.

1421
01:14:06,345 --> 01:14:07,725
We are not opining here,

1422
01:14:07,825 --> 01:14:09,765
we are not making any more arguments.

1423
01:14:10,185 --> 01:14:12,405
The public has been heard multiple times.

1424
01:14:12,705 --> 01:14:15,285
The changes here are really more

1425
01:14:15,285 --> 01:14:16,805
of a revision or an amendment.

1426
01:14:17,025 --> 01:14:20,165
And I think everybody has said enough at this point and it,

1427
01:14:20,165 --> 01:14:22,765
and it is supposed to be that the applicant is supposed

1428
01:14:22,765 --> 01:14:24,085
to have the last word anyway.

1429
01:14:24,435 --> 01:14:27,325
Very good. I, it's, it's always been my perception. Yeah.

1430
01:14:27,325 --> 01:14:28,805
So complete

1431
01:14:29,045 --> 01:14:30,045
Redesign of the sign.

1432
01:14:30,675 --> 01:14:32,485
It's a change in the height of the sign.

1433
01:14:34,945 --> 01:14:37,485
So I would like to have, make sure that the minutes

1434
01:14:37,505 --> 01:14:41,325
of this meeting make it quite clear that

1435
01:14:42,405 --> 01:14:44,965
a new design has been submitted

1436
01:14:45,015 --> 01:14:46,365
after you left public session

1437
01:14:48,645 --> 01:14:51,325
that requires notification in the hearing.

1438
01:14:51,705 --> 01:14:53,925
We received this information on the second agreement

1439
01:14:55,225 --> 01:14:56,765
I'm supposed to never has occurred

1440
01:14:56,765 --> 01:14:59,165
before in my time on this board.

1441
01:14:59,265 --> 01:15:01,365
And we've always been able to make amendments,

1442
01:15:01,365 --> 01:15:04,205
especially when the public input has given us

1443
01:15:04,235 --> 01:15:05,485
direction to do so.

1444
01:15:05,865 --> 01:15:07,485
And do you have the right to, are you fair with that?

1445
01:15:07,985 --> 01:15:10,525
We have the right to Contest Mr. Foley,

1446
01:15:10,545 --> 01:15:13,125
you can either sit down or I will have you

1447
01:15:13,125 --> 01:15:14,205
removed from the building.

1448
01:15:14,745 --> 01:15:17,405
Our meeting only ended because of time. If

1449
01:15:19,575 --> 01:15:21,365
We're all set to go, we're in deliberative.

1450
01:15:22,325 --> 01:15:25,845
I asked for deliberation. Did we go get a motion there?

1451
01:15:26,705 --> 01:15:29,325
No, We do.

1452
01:15:29,345 --> 01:15:33,245
We have Mrs. Moore will be sitting in for Mr.

1453
01:15:33,415 --> 01:15:36,285
Tripp who is absent and

1454
01:15:37,385 --> 01:15:38,385
We need another one.

1455
01:15:39,825 --> 01:15:42,565
You're on. It's five Mr. Donlin.

1456
01:15:43,595 --> 01:15:47,205
Okay. Okay, Mr. Donlin, you're all set to proceed.

1457
01:15:47,755 --> 01:15:49,365
Okay. All right.

1458
01:15:49,475 --> 01:15:52,485
That being said, I need a motion for deliberation.

1459
01:15:54,515 --> 01:15:56,445
I'll make a motion to go into deliberation.

1460
01:15:56,655 --> 01:15:59,845
Thank you. Second. Seconded by Mr. Donlin.

1461
01:16:00,025 --> 01:16:02,965
All in favor of deliberation, say aye. Aye. Aye.

1462
01:16:02,985 --> 01:16:05,085
Any opposed? All right.

1463
01:16:10,785 --> 01:16:11,805
So public input

1464
01:16:12,345 --> 01:16:15,405
and the compromise of the

1465
01:16:16,165 --> 01:16:20,925
property owner have brought forward the proposed

1466
01:16:22,165 --> 01:16:25,725
reductions in the, in the sign

1467
01:16:26,435 --> 01:16:28,645
that was asked for relief.

1468
01:16:30,185 --> 01:16:35,085
The board has had given direction

1469
01:16:35,505 --> 01:16:38,925
as we tabled this without deliberation

1470
01:16:39,785 --> 01:16:41,045
the prior meeting.

1471
01:16:45,985 --> 01:16:50,765
And can we, can we make up a separate proposal

1472
01:16:51,625 --> 01:16:54,165
as the applicant had asked for to separate the

1473
01:16:55,925 --> 01:16:58,485
lighting from the, from the sign?

1474
01:17:02,565 --> 01:17:05,305
So this one only has the one. Yep.

1475
01:17:06,265 --> 01:17:08,625
I don't have, I don't know what he's asking

1476
01:17:08,765 --> 01:17:09,765
For.

1477
01:17:11,625 --> 01:17:15,065
I think we're making, we're designating relief

1478
01:17:16,605 --> 01:17:19,305
for the, for lighting on this.

1479
01:17:19,365 --> 01:17:23,865
Do Ms. Owen, do we have a separate lighting aspect

1480
01:17:23,885 --> 01:17:27,505
to signage in the three pages of ordinances?

1481
01:17:28,055 --> 01:17:30,305
What I'm trying to find In

1482
01:17:30,505 --> 01:17:31,225
Relation to Lumens,

1483
01:17:39,125 --> 01:17:40,865
Who else has a motion sheet?

1484
01:17:40,925 --> 01:17:45,505
Mr. Donlin, do you have one of these with you? Can I, Mr.

1485
01:17:45,935 --> 01:17:48,585
Emba, did you get one of these? I do.

1486
01:17:48,595 --> 01:17:50,065
Could I have yours please? Yes.

1487
01:17:59,415 --> 01:18:00,785
Just hand that down to me.

1488
01:18:23,925 --> 01:18:24,925
Yes, thank you.

1489
01:18:31,405 --> 01:18:36,405
1 0 2, 2

1490
01:18:45,425 --> 01:18:45,785
And a half

1491
01:18:52,165 --> 01:18:52,945
square feet.

1492
01:18:53,335 --> 01:18:57,985
Okay, so that motion on this is going

1493
01:18:57,985 --> 01:19:01,905
to be 50 square feet, but 42 and and a half.

1494
01:19:04,165 --> 01:19:06,585
The other motion is going to be

1495
01:19:10,755 --> 01:19:15,405
Do allow The installation, we're going

1496
01:19:15,405 --> 01:19:17,765
to go make motion

1497
01:19:19,045 --> 01:19:21,605
code duly authorized to grant the variance

1498
01:19:21,665 --> 01:19:23,085
of one oh section

1499
01:19:23,265 --> 01:19:26,685
1 0 6, 1 65 1 0 1 0.1

1500
01:19:31,815 --> 01:19:32,815
Chair.

1501
01:19:32,815 --> 01:19:34,045
I'm not finding anything separate in the ordinance.

1502
01:19:34,235 --> 01:19:35,235
Very good.

1503
01:19:36,825 --> 01:19:41,085
All Right. So we will revise a second motion

1504
01:19:41,625 --> 01:19:44,045
as the applicant had requested.

1505
01:19:45,095 --> 01:19:49,765
Would we, Mrs. Owen, would we think

1506
01:19:49,995 --> 01:19:53,725
that as we're separating the motion of,

1507
01:19:54,305 --> 01:19:56,765
and I'm sorry that we're doing this at this moment.

1508
01:19:57,905 --> 01:20:00,565
1 1 65 1 0 1 0.1.

1509
01:20:01,185 --> 01:20:03,325
Is that all encompassing of all signs

1510
01:20:04,225 --> 01:20:05,765
In this district? Yes, I would agree.

1511
01:20:05,875 --> 01:20:09,045
Okay. Alright, so we'll leave the section

1512
01:20:09,225 --> 01:20:13,605
1 65 1 0 1 0.1 of the town of dairy

1513
01:20:14,265 --> 01:20:17,645
of zoning ordinance to allow the installation of

1514
01:20:20,085 --> 01:20:22,525
a lit sign.

1515
01:20:26,755 --> 01:20:29,165
Does it need to be clarified that it's internally lit?

1516
01:20:32,075 --> 01:20:37,005
Yeah, we can do that. And do we want to

1517
01:20:38,745 --> 01:20:43,085
record the numbers that were presented of from the report of

1518
01:20:43,085 --> 01:20:47,045
what it illuminates so that there is a,

1519
01:20:50,395 --> 01:20:52,045
With decreased luminance?

1520
01:20:52,545 --> 01:20:56,455
No, I'm, I'm trying let sign

1521
01:20:56,525 --> 01:20:58,895
with decreased lumens

1522
01:20:59,395 --> 01:21:01,695
Or no higher than 2,600 luminance.

1523
01:21:03,495 --> 01:21:06,995
Is that what it Is? It says between 21 to 26

1524
01:21:08,605 --> 01:21:09,605
Permission.

1525
01:21:10,585 --> 01:21:15,245
Okay. Yeah. 2100, right.

1526
01:21:15,245 --> 01:21:17,005
2,127.

1527
01:21:17,225 --> 01:21:20,285
If it says approximately, maybe it's a, yeah,

1528
01:21:20,865 --> 01:21:22,325
put it within a wheelhouse, but at least

1529
01:21:22,865 --> 01:21:24,565
cap capture a maximum.

1530
01:21:25,275 --> 01:21:26,365
Okay. Lumens?

1531
01:21:27,655 --> 01:21:29,325
Sorry, I probably right Crystal, I think I jumped on.

1532
01:21:29,505 --> 01:21:30,685
No, that's all right. And

1533
01:21:35,825 --> 01:21:39,755
with time lit with time lighting as specified.

1534
01:21:53,065 --> 01:21:55,515
Okay. All right.

1535
01:21:57,975 --> 01:21:58,995
We will do that separately.

1536
01:22:00,095 --> 01:22:02,115
Can I see yours just so I can have the same

1537
01:22:02,135 --> 01:22:06,075
For, and again, you want to change

1538
01:22:06,075 --> 01:22:08,595
that 50 square foot to 42.5?

1539
01:22:08,945 --> 01:22:11,315
Correct. And

1540
01:22:14,575 --> 01:22:17,715
on a condition of that, number two, Ms. Moore, you want

1541
01:22:17,715 --> 01:22:22,515
to note that the L

1542
01:22:22,655 --> 01:22:25,755
lit topper to be removed

1543
01:22:40,615 --> 01:22:41,355
all set there.

1544
01:22:44,415 --> 01:22:45,715
All set last morning? Yes. Yep.

1545
01:22:45,775 --> 01:22:49,275
You have that lit topper removed there. Correct.

1546
01:22:50,815 --> 01:22:52,235
Do you wanna put it as a condition?

1547
01:22:52,555 --> 01:22:54,475
I do want put it as a condition. Yep.

1548
01:22:54,695 --> 01:22:58,835
And, and this is to appease, I think the davisons

1549
01:22:59,175 --> 01:23:03,315
who had concerns about compliance after the fact

1550
01:23:07,225 --> 01:23:07,445
and

1551
01:23:20,305 --> 01:23:24,325
all right, I think let's get into the discussions here

1552
01:23:29,145 --> 01:23:33,005
In the first of the five legs, the question becomes contrary

1553
01:23:33,005 --> 01:23:34,085
to the public interest

1554
01:23:34,505 --> 01:23:36,805
and does the sign alter the essential

1555
01:23:36,805 --> 01:23:38,245
character of the neighborhood?

1556
01:23:41,825 --> 01:23:46,525
My feeling on this, this, as we've discussed prior,

1557
01:23:47,595 --> 01:23:51,645
that this road is a main commuter thoroughfare

1558
01:23:52,785 --> 01:23:54,485
and double yellow line.

1559
01:23:56,235 --> 01:23:59,805
It's not an intimate neighborhood setting like something in

1560
01:23:59,805 --> 01:24:01,325
around a school zone.

1561
01:24:03,535 --> 01:24:07,765
There are similar or larger signs along the same roadway.

1562
01:24:08,575 --> 01:24:13,405
Prior we referenced when the focus was solely on the

1563
01:24:13,405 --> 01:24:14,725
electronic messaging sign.

1564
01:24:14,785 --> 01:24:18,205
We referenced another sign

1565
01:24:18,825 --> 01:24:23,005
at the far end of Hampstead Road as it enters,

1566
01:24:23,085 --> 01:24:27,965
I guess Hampstead, but half a

1567
01:24:27,965 --> 01:24:32,085
mile away on the same thoroughfare is a larger sign,

1568
01:24:32,725 --> 01:24:33,725
40 square feet.

1569
01:24:34,585 --> 01:24:35,845
The Mr.

1570
01:24:36,405 --> 01:24:40,765
Roge brought the various signs of in the community

1571
01:24:40,905 --> 01:24:45,085
to other like businesses to the attention of the board

1572
01:24:46,555 --> 01:24:49,565
measuring those signs at similar locations

1573
01:24:49,565 --> 01:24:51,845
that he had shown us.

1574
01:24:51,895 --> 01:24:56,165
Those signs vary in size

1575
01:24:57,465 --> 01:25:01,565
and are larger than what the ordinance specifies

1576
01:25:02,065 --> 01:25:03,205
for such a,

1577
01:25:04,675 --> 01:25:08,125
such a venture like this in any of the other districts.

1578
01:25:08,125 --> 01:25:09,885
And that would be 24 square feet.

1579
01:25:11,425 --> 01:25:15,765
The Calvary Christian Church

1580
01:25:17,185 --> 01:25:21,205
up the road probably closer to the roses than this is,

1581
01:25:21,205 --> 01:25:23,365
this is almost a quarter of a mile away,

1582
01:25:24,345 --> 01:25:28,045
has a 40 square foot sign and it's backlit

1583
01:25:28,385 --> 01:25:32,525
and it is also at a facility that is closer

1584
01:25:32,585 --> 01:25:37,445
to the road easily two times than the,

1585
01:25:38,235 --> 01:25:41,405
than this facility at 180 7 Hampstead Road.

1586
01:25:42,795 --> 01:25:43,885
Anybody else wish

1587
01:25:43,905 --> 01:25:47,365
to give some feedback on the public interest aspect of this

1588
01:25:48,365 --> 01:25:50,285
I Mr.

1589
01:25:50,745 --> 01:25:51,745
Donlin?

1590
01:25:52,435 --> 01:25:54,405
Sure, I would agree.

1591
01:25:54,585 --> 01:25:59,485
And I would add that being that some

1592
01:25:59,485 --> 01:26:04,125
of the clients may be first time

1593
01:26:05,035 --> 01:26:07,605
that they are visiting the property,

1594
01:26:08,955 --> 01:26:11,965
this would cut down on any erratic traffic patterns

1595
01:26:12,105 --> 01:26:16,445
or erratic driving behavior on what we conclude

1596
01:26:16,445 --> 01:26:20,765
to be a busy road could eliminate some of that confusion

1597
01:26:22,475 --> 01:26:23,475
Essentially.

1598
01:26:23,475 --> 01:26:25,685
Safety, I think is in some aspect of

1599
01:26:25,685 --> 01:26:26,845
what you're getting at. Correct.

1600
01:26:27,075 --> 01:26:29,445
Certainly turning into

1601
01:26:30,695 --> 01:26:33,725
other properties in an effort to, to turn around

1602
01:26:33,745 --> 01:26:35,445
and then backing out into the road and all that.

1603
01:26:36,545 --> 01:26:37,765
Mr. Ms. Mul,

1604
01:26:37,965 --> 01:26:38,965
I wanna add to what Mr.

1605
01:26:39,115 --> 01:26:42,845
Donolan said though too, that the reasonable

1606
01:26:43,685 --> 01:26:47,085
identification as well for emergency responders.

1607
01:26:47,435 --> 01:26:48,435
That was

1608
01:26:49,815 --> 01:26:50,815
Ellen.

1609
01:26:51,475 --> 01:26:54,285
Yeah. How does a property get identified?

1610
01:26:54,785 --> 01:26:55,925
Any, any property

1611
01:26:56,265 --> 01:27:00,965
and I think as I closed out our last meeting, I said

1612
01:27:00,965 --> 01:27:03,365
that there is no district within this town

1613
01:27:03,755 --> 01:27:06,365
that does not allow some kind of business sign.

1614
01:27:06,465 --> 01:27:09,485
If you look through all of our ordinances, either

1615
01:27:09,595 --> 01:27:12,805
through the effect of, of a special exception

1616
01:27:13,385 --> 01:27:17,805
or as, as designated for a business.

1617
01:27:17,865 --> 01:27:19,205
And it wasn't a matter of whether

1618
01:27:19,205 --> 01:27:23,525
or not this business should have a sign, it's what type

1619
01:27:23,525 --> 01:27:25,125
of sign, how large

1620
01:27:25,905 --> 01:27:27,885
and what is fitting in a district

1621
01:27:27,975 --> 01:27:32,405
where there's an approved use for that.

1622
01:27:32,515 --> 01:27:37,125
That facility and it's a signage is

1623
01:27:37,575 --> 01:27:42,245
needs to be identified or needs to identify a location.

1624
01:27:42,505 --> 01:27:44,365
And as you've pointed out Mrs. Moore,

1625
01:27:44,705 --> 01:27:46,605
for safety issues as well.

1626
01:27:47,585 --> 01:27:51,045
Mr. Dietzel, any thoughts there under public interest

1627
01:27:53,945 --> 01:27:54,945
For recent stated?

1628
01:27:55,085 --> 01:27:58,285
I don't believe it's contrary to the public interest.

1629
01:27:58,315 --> 01:27:59,725
Alright. Mr. Corbett?

1630
01:28:01,955 --> 01:28:04,085
There's been a lot. You know,

1631
01:28:04,085 --> 01:28:05,685
as I look at the latest changes,

1632
01:28:05,845 --> 01:28:07,125
I don't necessarily think they're material.

1633
01:28:08,155 --> 01:28:09,445
Just to go back to that, from

1634
01:28:09,445 --> 01:28:13,365
what we saw at the last meeting, I think the new background

1635
01:28:14,225 --> 01:28:17,645
on the type of material for the sign, you know,

1636
01:28:17,645 --> 01:28:19,205
it wasn't necessarily within our purview

1637
01:28:19,225 --> 01:28:22,325
and just shrinking it from the 50 to the 42

1638
01:28:22,325 --> 01:28:24,325
and a half, I think is typically within changes

1639
01:28:24,325 --> 01:28:26,685
that we've seen come through right beforehand.

1640
01:28:26,825 --> 01:28:28,845
But with that, you know, as I look at this

1641
01:28:29,715 --> 01:28:31,925
driving down this road a lot, you know,

1642
01:28:31,925 --> 01:28:34,245
over the last two months while we've been hearing this,

1643
01:28:35,405 --> 01:28:38,165
I do believe it's tough to see that church back there,

1644
01:28:38,165 --> 01:28:40,485
especially when you're coming around the corner

1645
01:28:40,595 --> 01:28:42,005
with another church right back there.

1646
01:28:42,925 --> 01:28:45,765
I do think that this current sign that, you know,

1647
01:28:45,765 --> 01:28:48,685
while it is larger than a couple of the other ones in that

1648
01:28:49,645 --> 01:28:52,485
general vicinity, I think it's appropriately scaled.

1649
01:28:52,845 --> 01:28:55,005
I think it, I think it works for where it is.

1650
01:28:57,125 --> 01:28:59,165
I don't think it's gonna adversely affect traffic.

1651
01:28:59,605 --> 01:29:02,085
I think if anything it will help with the traffic, you know,

1652
01:29:02,085 --> 01:29:04,365
especially knowing the age groups, people

1653
01:29:04,365 --> 01:29:06,885
that are gonna be coming in and looking for this, the time

1654
01:29:06,885 --> 01:29:08,845
of night that they may be arriving or leaving.

1655
01:29:09,645 --> 01:29:11,005
I really don't think that it's contrary

1656
01:29:11,005 --> 01:29:13,205
to the public interest on the larger scale.

1657
01:29:13,865 --> 01:29:15,005
You know, when thinking about the town

1658
01:29:17,945 --> 01:29:21,525
On the spirit of the ordinance, as I indicated,

1659
01:29:21,525 --> 01:29:23,165
there's not a district in the town

1660
01:29:23,165 --> 01:29:26,805
that does not allow a sign of some sort for a business.

1661
01:29:27,185 --> 01:29:31,765
And I, I won't go back through the, the structural sizes

1662
01:29:32,435 --> 01:29:37,285
that were here, but the, the sphere

1663
01:29:37,285 --> 01:29:40,005
of the ordinance allows

1664
01:29:40,425 --> 01:29:43,365
for different signage in different districts.

1665
01:29:44,785 --> 01:29:47,645
And we see this along this roadside

1666
01:29:48,705 --> 01:29:50,285
at Meadowbrook Farm.

1667
01:29:50,545 --> 01:29:54,365
We see it at, at the church

1668
01:29:55,825 --> 01:30:00,725
and likewise in the reverse direction on this same roadway.

1669
01:30:02,625 --> 01:30:05,525
So to me, the spirit of the ordinance is met

1670
01:30:06,235 --> 01:30:10,845
when a business, albeit is, is a unique business,

1671
01:30:12,175 --> 01:30:14,325
needs to be able to promote itself.

1672
01:30:14,515 --> 01:30:19,245
It's not about, it's not about more revenue,

1673
01:30:19,705 --> 01:30:23,245
but to be able to just be existent and,

1674
01:30:23,905 --> 01:30:25,965
and be identified.

1675
01:30:26,635 --> 01:30:31,485
There's not a building in this town, this building as well,

1676
01:30:31,555 --> 01:30:34,085
that does not have some kind of signage on it.

1677
01:30:35,505 --> 01:30:37,805
And it, it doesn't matter whether it's a school,

1678
01:30:38,445 --> 01:30:41,605
a fire station, the municipal center,

1679
01:30:42,305 --> 01:30:47,285
or any of the other privately owned businesses.

1680
01:30:47,625 --> 01:30:50,605
All of them are allowed some kind of signage

1681
01:30:52,025 --> 01:30:55,605
to be able to let the public know that they're there

1682
01:30:56,425 --> 01:31:00,125
and it would be a hardship to take that away from them.

1683
01:31:01,585 --> 01:31:04,645
But going to the spirit of the ordinance, Mr. Donlin,

1684
01:31:05,725 --> 01:31:06,725
I agree.

1685
01:31:06,725 --> 01:31:08,125
I I would just reiterate

1686
01:31:08,225 --> 01:31:10,765
by saying I I believe it's reasonably similar

1687
01:31:10,945 --> 01:31:12,725
to other signage in the general

1688
01:31:14,085 --> 01:31:15,325
geographical area of the building.

1689
01:31:19,045 --> 01:31:23,345
Mrs. Moore, I think given the property's unusual

1690
01:31:23,655 --> 01:31:27,065
setback, it reduced visibility from the roadway that the

1691
01:31:27,735 --> 01:31:29,865
requested relief is reasonable

1692
01:31:30,245 --> 01:31:31,585
and it allows the property

1693
01:31:31,645 --> 01:31:33,985
to function in a manner consistent

1694
01:31:34,015 --> 01:31:37,185
with other properties in the area while maintaining the

1695
01:31:37,185 --> 01:31:39,065
overall intent of the ordinance.

1696
01:31:41,285 --> 01:31:45,105
Mr. Dietzel? Yeah, regarding the spirit

1697
01:31:45,105 --> 01:31:49,065
of the ordinance, the abutters

1698
01:31:50,785 --> 01:31:55,705
previously had stated that we're conflating the business

1699
01:31:55,735 --> 01:31:59,205
with the sign, and I don't know if we are or not,

1700
01:31:59,545 --> 01:32:04,125
but I I don't see how the two can be completely separated.

1701
01:32:06,865 --> 01:32:10,765
As you said, this business needs a sign of some sort.

1702
01:32:11,805 --> 01:32:14,765
I think that the spirit of the ordinance

1703
01:32:15,185 --> 01:32:18,445
and the, the

1704
01:32:19,835 --> 01:32:23,365
essential character

1705
01:32:23,365 --> 01:32:26,725
of the neighborhood was blown when they put the church in

1706
01:32:27,505 --> 01:32:29,565
and many, many years ago.

1707
01:32:30,065 --> 01:32:31,885
And were stuck with the fact that we had

1708
01:32:31,885 --> 01:32:32,925
to put the church in there

1709
01:32:33,785 --> 01:32:37,965
and given the fact that something had to go in there

1710
01:32:38,755 --> 01:32:42,405
that was not conforming with the zoning ordinance,

1711
01:32:42,725 --> 01:32:47,205
I don't see how a sign of this nature is

1712
01:32:47,955 --> 01:32:51,725
significant compared to what has already been done.

1713
01:32:53,145 --> 01:32:57,645
And there is case law that says that it,

1714
01:32:57,705 --> 01:32:59,125
it must unduly

1715
01:32:59,185 --> 01:33:01,445
and in a market degree conflict

1716
01:33:01,445 --> 01:33:05,045
with the basing zoning objectives of the ordinance.

1717
01:33:05,665 --> 01:33:10,565
And I don't think this sign does that in a market

1718
01:33:10,625 --> 01:33:15,125
to a market degree and in an unduly fashion.

1719
01:33:17,025 --> 01:33:18,765
The harms have been done by the church.

1720
01:33:19,225 --> 01:33:22,525
We can't go back now, we're just talking about the sign.

1721
01:33:23,325 --> 01:33:24,645
I think the sign is reasonable

1722
01:33:25,585 --> 01:33:30,325
and I think the, I think the spirit of the ordinance has,

1723
01:33:31,265 --> 01:33:32,445
is observed.

1724
01:33:32,795 --> 01:33:34,045
Okay. Mr. Corbet,

1725
01:33:35,465 --> 01:33:37,025
I agree with what you and Mr.

1726
01:33:37,215 --> 01:33:38,825
Dietzel really have stated.

1727
01:33:39,265 --> 01:33:40,705
I think that, you know,

1728
01:33:41,285 --> 01:33:44,265
what's allowed there is now lawfully authorized, you know,

1729
01:33:44,265 --> 01:33:45,225
and that happened through a prior

1730
01:33:45,465 --> 01:33:46,585
decision outside of our board.

1731
01:33:46,685 --> 01:33:50,985
And I think that, you know, what's allowed to, excuse me,

1732
01:33:50,985 --> 01:33:53,145
exists there, you know, they do need a clear identifier

1733
01:33:53,525 --> 01:33:55,865
and I don't think that a sign goes against the spirit

1734
01:33:55,865 --> 01:33:58,185
of the ordinance now understanding

1735
01:33:58,215 --> 01:33:59,865
what we're utilizing the property for

1736
01:34:01,965 --> 01:34:04,705
or what we've deemed the property is allowed to be used for,

1737
01:34:04,705 --> 01:34:05,945
I guess I should, that the town is allowed

1738
01:34:05,945 --> 01:34:07,145
the property to be used for

1739
01:34:09,005 --> 01:34:12,265
So substantial justice is the loss

1740
01:34:12,285 --> 01:34:15,065
to the individual outweighed by a gain to the public.

1741
01:34:18,525 --> 01:34:22,105
The abutters had an opportunity to address this matter.

1742
01:34:22,485 --> 01:34:26,185
In fact, during the process, we tried to correct

1743
01:34:26,805 --> 01:34:30,545
one abutter in the fact that he was

1744
01:34:31,445 --> 01:34:36,385
solely talking about the prior case that focused

1745
01:34:36,385 --> 01:34:38,665
around electronic messaging signs,

1746
01:34:39,605 --> 01:34:44,305
but not presenting the objection to any of the five criteria

1747
01:34:44,655 --> 01:34:48,665
that is relevant to this case here.

1748
01:34:49,765 --> 01:34:52,905
And as much as we tried to engage with him,

1749
01:34:53,925 --> 01:34:55,185
he resisted and,

1750
01:34:55,325 --> 01:34:58,405
and really didn't want to engage back with us.

1751
01:34:59,105 --> 01:35:02,725
It leaves us to the, is it Davis' or the Davidson's?

1752
01:35:02,725 --> 01:35:05,125
Davidson Davidson's, yeah.

1753
01:35:06,895 --> 01:35:09,525
Their, their concerns are, are understood

1754
01:35:10,465 --> 01:35:13,485
and I think that the applicant

1755
01:35:14,385 --> 01:35:16,765
has done an awful lot to,

1756
01:35:19,865 --> 01:35:23,445
you know, kind of diminish the impact and,

1757
01:35:23,665 --> 01:35:27,085
and honor what their feelings are here.

1758
01:35:27,265 --> 01:35:31,885
And I think that this compromise that they asked for

1759
01:35:32,545 --> 01:35:35,445
and the abutter notably,

1760
01:35:35,585 --> 01:35:39,045
or the applicant notably gave

1761
01:35:40,545 --> 01:35:43,525
is, is justice in itself.

1762
01:35:44,065 --> 01:35:46,725
Mr. Donnelly,

1763
01:35:48,925 --> 01:35:50,405
I tend to agree with you, Mr.

1764
01:35:50,455 --> 01:35:53,925
Chair would go back

1765
01:35:53,945 --> 01:35:55,885
to something, the point Mr.

1766
01:35:55,995 --> 01:36:00,405
Corbert was just making in his closing statement

1767
01:36:00,425 --> 01:36:01,445
to the spirit of the on

1768
01:36:01,585 --> 01:36:05,235
and that the, the, we're not,

1769
01:36:05,575 --> 01:36:08,715
our board is not here to decide the use of the land.

1770
01:36:09,215 --> 01:36:13,475
So would it be reasonable to contend that

1771
01:36:15,155 --> 01:36:16,435
a business needs a sign?

1772
01:36:16,775 --> 01:36:19,475
And I would agree that that is

1773
01:36:20,025 --> 01:36:21,675
substantial justice for a business.

1774
01:36:23,015 --> 01:36:26,355
Mrs. Moore, I agree with what has been stated

1775
01:36:26,655 --> 01:36:30,075
and I feel the request it signed, it's not intended

1776
01:36:30,175 --> 01:36:33,675
to expand or intensify the already approved use,

1777
01:36:33,735 --> 01:36:35,755
but like I'd said, but rather

1778
01:36:35,815 --> 01:36:40,395
to provide reasonable identification of the property

1779
01:36:40,735 --> 01:36:43,115
and then the relief requested is limited in scope

1780
01:36:43,175 --> 01:36:47,675
and directly related to the unique carriers

1781
01:36:47,675 --> 01:36:49,395
that sticks of the property.

1782
01:36:51,655 --> 01:36:55,645
Mr. Dietzel? I I agree.

1783
01:36:56,485 --> 01:37:01,445
I I think the, the substantial justice substan justice has

1784
01:37:01,445 --> 01:37:02,805
been met that criterion. Yeah.

1785
01:37:02,835 --> 01:37:04,085
Okay. Mr. For recent stated,

1786
01:37:04,465 --> 01:37:05,465
Mr.

1787
01:37:05,465 --> 01:37:05,685
Corbitt,

1788
01:37:07,045 --> 01:37:08,045
I think you made a good point.

1789
01:37:08,045 --> 01:37:09,965
I think that, you know, when you look at the substantial

1790
01:37:09,965 --> 01:37:12,405
justice, if we were to, to deny this variance,

1791
01:37:12,645 --> 01:37:15,965
I think it causes more of a burden to the applicant that,

1792
01:37:16,625 --> 01:37:19,125
you know, again, the signs a reasonable identifier

1793
01:37:19,305 --> 01:37:21,365
for something that's, you know,

1794
01:37:21,925 --> 01:37:23,725
a multiple approved onsite uses.

1795
01:37:24,905 --> 01:37:28,885
And if you approve the sign, I'm sorry I bit short

1796
01:37:28,885 --> 01:37:31,405
of breath tonight, but if you approve the sign, you know,

1797
01:37:31,445 --> 01:37:35,405
I really don't think that it results in much harm

1798
01:37:35,425 --> 01:37:38,725
to the public, especially having a chance now

1799
01:37:38,725 --> 01:37:42,085
to really look at this, to see these lights turn down,

1800
01:37:42,265 --> 01:37:45,605
you know, what it, what was originally proposed,

1801
01:37:45,715 --> 01:37:48,285
what there is now, you know, when it was the church with the

1802
01:37:48,865 --> 01:37:50,885
bat signals going up into the steeple

1803
01:37:50,885 --> 01:37:53,165
that are no longer there and the other light shining from

1804
01:37:53,165 --> 01:37:57,325
the, from the building that we saw, you know,

1805
01:37:57,325 --> 01:37:58,485
almost made it look like an airport.

1806
01:37:58,545 --> 01:38:00,005
You know, I think that the sign is a much,

1807
01:38:00,755 --> 01:38:01,845
much more reasonable use.

1808
01:38:04,185 --> 01:38:08,395
Well I think that we honored testimony even though the Mr.

1809
01:38:08,755 --> 01:38:13,275
Roge has other live-in

1810
01:38:14,005 --> 01:38:18,715
Renee Cloutier and or motivated tiger or whatever.

1811
01:38:20,555 --> 01:38:24,035
I think that the board also has honored what it is

1812
01:38:24,035 --> 01:38:26,995
that they were advocating for with some compromise,

1813
01:38:28,185 --> 01:38:31,755
even though they have not been able to identify

1814
01:38:31,975 --> 01:38:33,675
how they would be aggrieved by this.

1815
01:38:34,135 --> 01:38:37,315
And I think that goes back to the, you know, emphasizes

1816
01:38:37,315 --> 01:38:41,715
that substantial justice, which is what, what is,

1817
01:38:42,305 --> 01:38:45,075
what does the public gain if you don't allow

1818
01:38:45,075 --> 01:38:46,595
this business to promote itself?

1819
01:38:46,675 --> 01:38:50,995
I think it becomes a detriment diminuation

1820
01:38:50,995 --> 01:38:52,035
of property values.

1821
01:38:53,855 --> 01:38:57,195
The board has seen the broker opinion supporting both sides

1822
01:38:57,215 --> 01:38:58,355
of this argument.

1823
01:38:58,715 --> 01:39:01,875
I, again, I think that we've, that the compromise

1824
01:39:01,935 --> 01:39:04,115
by the applicant has allowed

1825
01:39:06,705 --> 01:39:10,395
what is I think something that is very less offensive

1826
01:39:10,975 --> 01:39:15,915
and to the abutters, particularly at night.

1827
01:39:18,175 --> 01:39:22,155
And, and the higher courts have allowed zoning boards

1828
01:39:22,175 --> 01:39:26,275
to determine the relevance of the information to

1829
01:39:27,265 --> 01:39:29,035
diminuation of property values.

1830
01:39:29,255 --> 01:39:33,155
And I find that between the two arguments, it's a neutral,

1831
01:39:33,315 --> 01:39:36,635
I don't see that it, that this facility cleaned up

1832
01:39:36,635 --> 01:39:40,555
as it is not vandalized windows all boarded up,

1833
01:39:41,555 --> 01:39:45,475
a vacant lot just sitting there to go into disrepair.

1834
01:39:47,075 --> 01:39:50,115
I think that this, as you go by this property,

1835
01:39:51,375 --> 01:39:55,755
it actually improves the property values not,

1836
01:39:56,815 --> 01:39:58,315
not diminishes it.

1837
01:39:58,455 --> 01:40:00,915
Mr. Cor Donlin,

1838
01:40:02,235 --> 01:40:03,235
I agree with Mr.

1839
01:40:03,235 --> 01:40:05,395
Chair and I, I will reiterate the,

1840
01:40:07,415 --> 01:40:10,555
the concessions that have been made along the way to

1841
01:40:12,315 --> 01:40:14,955
minimize any effects while still maintaining

1842
01:40:16,105 --> 01:40:18,195
effectiveness in regards to the

1843
01:40:18,905 --> 01:40:20,875
sign serving its purpose as needed.

1844
01:40:21,385 --> 01:40:23,155
Okay. Mrs. Moore,

1845
01:40:24,755 --> 01:40:26,955
I agree with what has been stated,

1846
01:40:27,095 --> 01:40:29,995
but also I had looked at the town's,

1847
01:40:32,435 --> 01:40:33,675
I forget what it's called already.

1848
01:40:34,855 --> 01:40:36,955
The vision. Yeah, the vision plan

1849
01:40:37,255 --> 01:40:41,155
and the number one thing that was in it was

1850
01:40:41,685 --> 01:40:43,755
youth activities, keeping youth.

1851
01:40:43,895 --> 01:40:47,035
And so I think having that property, having

1852
01:40:47,035 --> 01:40:49,235
that in town won't just, you know,

1853
01:40:49,465 --> 01:40:52,035
help their property values but everyone else's

1854
01:40:52,035 --> 01:40:55,685
because of the recreation part of it.

1855
01:40:57,135 --> 01:40:58,505
Very good. Mr. Dietzel?

1856
01:40:59,335 --> 01:41:02,345
Yeah, I agree with what the chair

1857
01:41:02,365 --> 01:41:06,665
and Mr. Morin said about the, about the business itself

1858
01:41:08,255 --> 01:41:10,905
enhancing property values.

1859
01:41:11,605 --> 01:41:14,345
But I'm gonna focus on the sign and

1860
01:41:14,655 --> 01:41:19,545
because we've already, the, the, the business itself is,

1861
01:41:19,765 --> 01:41:21,505
is kind of a past issue.

1862
01:41:23,085 --> 01:41:24,905
I'm just looking at it from my standpoint.

1863
01:41:24,965 --> 01:41:27,425
If I were to move into this, if I'm looking for a house

1864
01:41:27,445 --> 01:41:31,385
and I wanna live in a particular neighborhood, maybe

1865
01:41:32,665 --> 01:41:35,585
I wouldn't want to live right near that business

1866
01:41:35,615 --> 01:41:39,185
because it's, you know, too busy or too lit

1867
01:41:39,185 --> 01:41:41,025
or I don't want to live near a business.

1868
01:41:42,805 --> 01:41:45,105
But if I want to live there, am I gonna turn around

1869
01:41:45,125 --> 01:41:49,665
and say, well I I want to reduce the price of the, my offer

1870
01:41:49,765 --> 01:41:50,825
by $50,000.

1871
01:41:51,105 --> 01:41:54,705
'cause of the sign, I don't see it as you stated, Mr.

1872
01:41:54,755 --> 01:41:57,105
Chair, I believe the sign itself is neutral.

1873
01:41:57,905 --> 01:42:00,505
I don't see any adverse effect on property tax

1874
01:42:00,845 --> 01:42:01,985
or property values.

1875
01:42:03,015 --> 01:42:04,105
Okay. Mr. Corbit,

1876
01:42:05,665 --> 01:42:06,705
I agree with the way Mr.

1877
01:42:06,935 --> 01:42:08,665
DE's looking at it. You know,

1878
01:42:08,925 --> 01:42:10,425
we heard testimony on both sides.

1879
01:42:10,425 --> 01:42:12,545
We have the letter from the abutters

1880
01:42:12,545 --> 01:42:13,705
that say that it would reduce the value.

1881
01:42:13,765 --> 01:42:15,625
We have the letters from the applicant saying

1882
01:42:15,645 --> 01:42:16,745
it would enhance the value.

1883
01:42:18,725 --> 01:42:21,385
You know, to your point, the Supreme Court, you know,

1884
01:42:21,385 --> 01:42:22,745
precedent doesn't allow the board, you know,

1885
01:42:22,745 --> 01:42:24,105
if you know the area, it's one of the reasons I've been

1886
01:42:24,105 --> 01:42:25,585
driving through it as often as I have.

1887
01:42:26,185 --> 01:42:27,425
It's continued to get a feel

1888
01:42:27,775 --> 01:42:30,785
that you can rely on your own experience too, as just

1889
01:42:30,785 --> 01:42:32,265
as much testimony, if not more.

1890
01:42:33,045 --> 01:42:36,905
And to Mr Diet's point, what I, which I wholeheartedly agree

1891
01:42:36,905 --> 01:42:38,985
with is that I think you

1892
01:42:38,985 --> 01:42:42,145
and Ms. Moore make a good point that what is there now just

1893
01:42:43,005 --> 01:42:44,985
the improvement to the property is

1894
01:42:45,025 --> 01:42:46,185
an increase to the property value.

1895
01:42:46,365 --> 01:42:47,665
You know, I think as it is,

1896
01:42:48,165 --> 01:42:49,985
the property values are already increasing

1897
01:42:49,985 --> 01:42:52,505
because of what, you know, the broken windows, everything

1898
01:42:52,505 --> 01:42:53,625
that we've seen and kind

1899
01:42:53,625 --> 01:42:55,785
of the dilapidated church over the last decade are gone.

1900
01:42:56,805 --> 01:42:59,025
But what I look at now is that

1901
01:43:01,445 --> 01:43:05,065
to say that a sign, you know, located

1902
01:43:06,165 --> 01:43:08,385
at an area that was on the site plan review

1903
01:43:08,385 --> 01:43:10,585
that allowed the business to go in the first place is now

1904
01:43:10,585 --> 01:43:13,545
going to be what reduces the, the neighborhood value.

1905
01:43:14,505 --> 01:43:16,585
I just don't see it, I don't think that the sign can bring,

1906
01:43:18,145 --> 01:43:19,305
I don't think the sign is a negative.

1907
01:43:20,025 --> 01:43:21,665
I think it's at anything, it is neutral.

1908
01:43:21,865 --> 01:43:24,225
I think that it would be a negative to the applicant.

1909
01:43:24,465 --> 01:43:26,345
I just don't see how it would assign itself

1910
01:43:26,345 --> 01:43:27,425
would affect the properties.

1911
01:43:27,785 --> 01:43:30,505
I think that it's already, you know, quote a famous line.

1912
01:43:30,545 --> 01:43:31,505
I think the rise, the rising

1913
01:43:31,505 --> 01:43:32,745
tide already raised all the ships

1914
01:43:37,705 --> 01:43:38,705
Hardship.

1915
01:43:39,615 --> 01:43:40,625
Everybody's favorite.

1916
01:43:41,055 --> 01:43:42,625
Everybody's favorite. That's right.

1917
01:43:46,405 --> 01:43:48,105
Oh, lemme see where this is at.

1918
01:43:54,795 --> 01:43:58,565
Looking at how this,

1919
01:44:00,795 --> 01:44:04,485
this property is and what the hardship is

1920
01:44:05,905 --> 01:44:06,125
and

1921
01:44:11,945 --> 01:44:15,885
the unique setting and whether

1922
01:44:15,905 --> 01:44:18,925
or not the property is unfairly burdened

1923
01:44:20,465 --> 01:44:21,885
by its location,

1924
01:44:25,305 --> 01:44:28,285
the first thing is that this parcel,

1925
01:44:29,545 --> 01:44:33,725
the hardship is, was established some time ago, not

1926
01:44:34,025 --> 01:44:37,005
to the applicant's doing,

1927
01:44:38,225 --> 01:44:42,765
but as someone mentioned already, the church or Mr.

1928
01:44:42,795 --> 01:44:44,805
Dietzel suggested that the church

1929
01:44:46,665 --> 01:44:48,565
was established some time ago,

1930
01:44:50,195 --> 01:44:53,085
poor endeavor on behalf of the archdiocese,

1931
01:44:53,865 --> 01:44:57,765
but They established the hardship

1932
01:44:57,825 --> 01:45:01,685
and they created this building that was designed for a lot

1933
01:45:01,685 --> 01:45:04,485
of parishioners who didn't seem to go there.

1934
01:45:05,585 --> 01:45:08,325
And now you have this, this structure

1935
01:45:08,545 --> 01:45:09,765
and what do you do with it?

1936
01:45:11,385 --> 01:45:16,045
No, no less than than other times when we see people come

1937
01:45:16,145 --> 01:45:19,205
for development of property and they, they claim hardship.

1938
01:45:20,115 --> 01:45:23,765
This individual made a usage of this,

1939
01:45:24,145 --> 01:45:27,645
of this property, which is a reasonable use.

1940
01:45:28,465 --> 01:45:32,685
But as a capitalistic society, the, the idea

1941
01:45:32,755 --> 01:45:34,965
that a business can be there

1942
01:45:35,105 --> 01:45:38,525
but can't ever promote itself, show itself

1943
01:45:39,465 --> 01:45:42,845
or display itself is I,

1944
01:45:43,125 --> 01:45:45,565
I think creates the hardship in itself.

1945
01:45:48,065 --> 01:45:50,565
The proper, the the structure and the,

1946
01:45:50,665 --> 01:45:55,325
and the pictures that were given to the board as well

1947
01:45:55,325 --> 01:45:59,045
as my own drive-bys of this property almost create a,

1948
01:45:59,205 --> 01:46:00,245
a safety risk.

1949
01:46:00,465 --> 01:46:03,725
If you're heading east on this, on, on Hampstead Road,

1950
01:46:04,425 --> 01:46:08,085
you have to rubberneck back in order to see the facility

1951
01:46:08,185 --> 01:46:10,125
and be able to identify what it is.

1952
01:46:10,945 --> 01:46:15,325
And you have people that may, patrons that may want to go

1953
01:46:15,325 --> 01:46:20,005
to this or families that may want to bring their children

1954
01:46:20,345 --> 01:46:23,325
for the baseball school or camp

1955
01:46:24,505 --> 01:46:28,605
and maybe end up having to drive by multiple times or twice.

1956
01:46:28,985 --> 01:46:30,965
And because they overshoot the driveway

1957
01:46:30,965 --> 01:46:32,205
because they don't see it there.

1958
01:46:32,845 --> 01:46:35,165
I understand this technology and GPSs,

1959
01:46:35,185 --> 01:46:37,085
but I happen, my own experience

1960
01:46:37,475 --> 01:46:40,405
that I've been watching on the road helping to enhance

1961
01:46:41,025 --> 01:46:42,925
safety issues, not help.

1962
01:46:43,505 --> 01:46:47,045
So I'm, I'm gonna rest, almost rest on that hardship.

1963
01:46:47,745 --> 01:46:49,365
But the property,

1964
01:46:51,055 --> 01:46:54,445
there are other parcels on this same stretch of road

1965
01:46:55,595 --> 01:46:59,485
quarter, half mile on this double yellow line road

1966
01:47:00,435 --> 01:47:03,885
that are allowed to have signs,

1967
01:47:04,745 --> 01:47:08,765
larger signs than what the ordinance would allow.

1968
01:47:09,585 --> 01:47:11,125
And they're closer to the road.

1969
01:47:11,475 --> 01:47:15,045
This prop, this structure is two times,

1970
01:47:15,295 --> 01:47:18,765
three times further from the road than those referenced

1971
01:47:18,825 --> 01:47:21,245
and the other five criteria, and

1972
01:47:21,915 --> 01:47:26,765
therefore the signage is necessary as I think has proposed

1973
01:47:27,425 --> 01:47:32,045
and improved in the compromise for the, for this applicant.

1974
01:47:32,505 --> 01:47:33,605
Mr. Donlin?

1975
01:47:34,605 --> 01:47:36,685
I agree Mr. Chair. I, I'd just reiterate,

1976
01:47:37,205 --> 01:47:40,205
I believe this is reasonably similar to other,

1977
01:47:41,975 --> 01:47:45,805
other similar properties in the area

1978
01:47:45,945 --> 01:47:50,685
and I I will also reiterate the setback from the street is

1979
01:47:52,995 --> 01:47:56,485
certainly much more than the other properties around,

1980
01:47:57,545 --> 01:47:59,325
in my opinion, further facilitating the

1981
01:47:59,325 --> 01:48:00,405
need for the signage.

1982
01:48:00,835 --> 01:48:01,835
Okay.

1983
01:48:02,745 --> 01:48:05,005
And I guess that would be the signage

1984
01:48:05,065 --> 01:48:09,525
as they're proposing here, which is smaller than the,

1985
01:48:10,035 --> 01:48:12,085
than the other or than the ordinance

1986
01:48:12,875 --> 01:48:14,645
sign ordinance specifies

1987
01:48:14,645 --> 01:48:17,765
through oth other parts of the community. Would you agree?

1988
01:48:17,965 --> 01:48:19,485
I would. Ms. Warren.

1989
01:48:21,005 --> 01:48:23,645
I agree because it's an approved use

1990
01:48:23,825 --> 01:48:28,405
and where it is set really far back, it's unreasonable

1991
01:48:28,465 --> 01:48:31,565
to expect them to like lift the pro the building

1992
01:48:31,665 --> 01:48:32,685
and move that forward.

1993
01:48:34,705 --> 01:48:37,085
So the building was put where it was put

1994
01:48:37,465 --> 01:48:41,645
and it where other businesses in that area

1995
01:48:42,105 --> 01:48:46,445
as well have a sign and it's closer to their building.

1996
01:48:47,555 --> 01:48:49,445
Okay, Mr. Dietzel,

1997
01:48:53,425 --> 01:48:55,725
The hardship is a, a difficult one for me,

1998
01:48:57,425 --> 01:49:01,605
so I'm just gonna go by this, the, the wording

1999
01:49:05,345 --> 01:49:08,205
due to the conditions of the property, no fair

2000
01:49:08,225 --> 01:49:10,405
and substantial relationship exists

2001
01:49:10,405 --> 01:49:13,045
between the general public purposes of the ordinance.

2002
01:49:13,425 --> 01:49:15,445
And I think that pretty much means we shouldn't just be

2003
01:49:16,275 --> 01:49:19,525
enforcing it literally for the purpose

2004
01:49:19,665 --> 01:49:22,005
of enforcing it.

2005
01:49:22,505 --> 01:49:24,965
It should be tied to the, the goals of the ordinance.

2006
01:49:25,345 --> 01:49:29,365
And that goes back to the, the other four criteria,

2007
01:49:29,885 --> 01:49:33,485
specifically the spirit of the ordinance and,

2008
01:49:36,985 --> 01:49:40,405
and substantial justice.

2009
01:49:41,345 --> 01:49:43,965
And so I I I believe that,

2010
01:49:44,835 --> 01:49:48,005
that there is a special condition for this property

2011
01:49:49,875 --> 01:49:51,325
that we've already discussed.

2012
01:49:51,835 --> 01:49:56,445
It's, it, it's a commercial enterprise

2013
01:49:56,755 --> 01:49:59,925
that I don't believe I would've granted a variance for

2014
01:50:00,945 --> 01:50:02,565
had it not been a church before.

2015
01:50:02,945 --> 01:50:04,365
It all goes back to the, the,

2016
01:50:04,385 --> 01:50:06,205
the original problem with the church.

2017
01:50:06,745 --> 01:50:10,045
So given the fact that we have a business there, that

2018
01:50:10,045 --> 01:50:12,965
that's a special condition because what are you gonna do?

2019
01:50:13,665 --> 01:50:17,285
And then the second part, is it reasonable?

2020
01:50:18,035 --> 01:50:21,165
Well I didn't think an electronic messaging

2021
01:50:21,455 --> 01:50:23,005
board was reasonable.

2022
01:50:23,165 --> 01:50:24,405
I thought that was excessive.

2023
01:50:25,085 --> 01:50:29,125
I think their downscaled compromised proposal based on

2024
01:50:31,345 --> 01:50:34,605
the, the, the little picture they gave

2025
01:50:34,985 --> 01:50:39,365
and what I'm, I'm seeing in my imagination,

2026
01:50:40,205 --> 01:50:42,765
I believe what they're proposing is reasonable.

2027
01:50:43,785 --> 01:50:47,725
And so I believe that the hardship criterion

2028
01:50:48,385 --> 01:50:53,325
is now met with this application.

2029
01:50:54,705 --> 01:50:58,245
So you find this parcel to have to be a unique setting.

2030
01:50:59,565 --> 01:51:01,365
I do a unique setting

2031
01:51:01,945 --> 01:51:06,285
and a unique overall condition given the history

2032
01:51:07,025 --> 01:51:08,365
of the, the use

2033
01:51:08,865 --> 01:51:10,565
And unfairly burdened compared

2034
01:51:10,565 --> 01:51:12,005
to other properties in the same road

2035
01:51:12,165 --> 01:51:13,165
Unfairly burdened.

2036
01:51:13,395 --> 01:51:15,285
Very good. Thank you Mr. Corbett.

2037
01:51:17,965 --> 01:51:19,965
I think Mr. Diet's done a very good job, you know,

2038
01:51:19,965 --> 01:51:22,685
over the years of reminding the board how the hardship,

2039
01:51:22,825 --> 01:51:25,205
you know, relates to the characteristics of the property.

2040
01:51:25,585 --> 01:51:30,485
Not to the business, not to the applicant, not to, you know,

2041
01:51:30,485 --> 01:51:31,525
really anything else that you hear.

2042
01:51:31,705 --> 01:51:34,485
And when I review the site, you know, when I look at

2043
01:51:35,035 --> 01:51:38,085
that makes this unique is it's a residential zone that

2044
01:51:39,005 --> 01:51:40,245
a church is allowed to build in

2045
01:51:40,485 --> 01:51:42,005
'cause the churches are allowed to build anywhere,

2046
01:51:42,615 --> 01:51:44,405
which then led us to a situation

2047
01:51:44,405 --> 01:51:47,765
where the church goes vacant for years, you know,

2048
01:51:47,765 --> 01:51:49,085
the property becomes an eyesore.

2049
01:51:49,745 --> 01:51:52,805
The ZBA itself, you know, we declined how many uses for

2050
01:51:52,805 --> 01:51:55,925
that building over the years, but then a mixed use was

2051
01:51:56,085 --> 01:51:58,325
approved by planning, you know, and then that

2052
01:51:58,475 --> 01:52:00,285
therefore makes this property unique

2053
01:52:00,305 --> 01:52:01,925
as it's now a commercial property

2054
01:52:02,395 --> 01:52:04,045
that exists in a residential area

2055
01:52:05,105 --> 01:52:09,565
and by right, you know, as we see with Jot down.

2056
01:52:09,785 --> 01:52:13,205
But so through the RSA 6 74 33, you know,

2057
01:52:13,205 --> 01:52:15,805
on the harbor side case that was discussed at length early

2058
01:52:15,865 --> 01:52:18,205
on with this, the applicant just needs

2059
01:52:18,205 --> 01:52:19,605
to show the signs necessary

2060
01:52:19,865 --> 01:52:21,365
or it doesn't need to show that it's necessary.

2061
01:52:21,435 --> 01:52:23,005
They just need to show that it's reasonable

2062
01:52:23,665 --> 01:52:26,445
and I think that a sign for

2063
01:52:27,085 --> 01:52:29,365
a commercial use in a residential area is reasonable.

2064
01:52:32,675 --> 01:52:33,165
Very good.

2065
01:52:38,005 --> 01:52:40,105
Our, let's get into structuring motion

2066
01:52:40,405 --> 01:52:42,705
unless anybody has anything left to add.

2067
01:52:46,825 --> 01:52:47,845
We have two motions.

2068
01:52:49,225 --> 01:52:51,885
One is for the installation of a 42

2069
01:52:51,885 --> 01:52:53,765
and a half foot pylon sign.

2070
01:52:56,375 --> 01:52:58,445
We're gonna take these motions one at a time

2071
01:52:58,545 --> 01:53:00,965
and identify finding of fact for each.

2072
01:53:05,225 --> 01:53:08,965
We have subject to obtaining Allstate and town permits

2073
01:53:08,965 --> 01:53:11,805
and inspections on, on both the,

2074
01:53:11,985 --> 01:53:14,125
the variance application

2075
01:53:14,425 --> 01:53:18,885
or motion for the, the sign as well as the,

2076
01:53:18,945 --> 01:53:20,325
the lighting for the sign.

2077
01:53:21,985 --> 01:53:22,205
And

2078
01:53:28,305 --> 01:53:30,965
we can structure both of those motions simultaneously.

2079
01:53:31,445 --> 01:53:35,005
I guess we have, that's, that's

2080
01:53:35,665 --> 01:53:40,085
the standard is the 42 and a half square foot pylon sign.

2081
01:53:41,345 --> 01:53:45,885
And then on the other motion, which the applicant

2082
01:53:46,545 --> 01:53:50,205
has authorized us to do that will be

2083
01:53:50,735 --> 01:53:55,005
internally lit sign with 2100

2084
01:53:55,105 --> 01:53:59,165
to 2,700 lumens with timed lighting

2085
01:53:59,505 --> 01:54:00,605
as specified.

2086
01:54:01,825 --> 01:54:04,405
So those are the two motions that we're structuring,

2087
01:54:04,435 --> 01:54:07,445
both subject to obtaining state

2088
01:54:07,445 --> 01:54:09,205
and town permits and inspections.

2089
01:54:12,195 --> 01:54:15,565
Anybody have any additional conditions to those

2090
01:54:15,635 --> 01:54:16,685
that they'd like to add?

2091
01:54:17,065 --> 01:54:18,065
Mr. Donlin?

2092
01:54:20,195 --> 01:54:23,435
I don't have any additional things to add,

2093
01:54:23,495 --> 01:54:26,835
but I, I think that the, the

2094
01:54:28,265 --> 01:54:30,615
lumen specification is a little too

2095
01:54:32,945 --> 01:54:36,175
Vague Or strident really like it,

2096
01:54:36,175 --> 01:54:38,095
it was approximations

2097
01:54:38,435 --> 01:54:41,975
and it's so much lower than what we were talking about

2098
01:54:43,245 --> 01:54:47,215
that it's like, I think even if you just said like 3000,

2099
01:54:47,235 --> 01:54:50,735
it would be well in keeping with the, with the, in the,

2100
01:54:50,735 --> 01:54:51,735
in a compromising mindset

2101
01:54:52,555 --> 01:54:54,335
Rather than holding it to such a tight number

2102
01:54:54,795 --> 01:54:56,815
or it could just yeah. Be off by feel

2103
01:54:57,715 --> 01:55:00,455
Up to 3000 lumens.

2104
01:55:03,225 --> 01:55:04,525
Is that what you're getting at Mr.

2105
01:55:05,145 --> 01:55:07,125
And I think that gives him a little bit of,

2106
01:55:07,375 --> 01:55:09,965
gives everybody a little bit of leeway

2107
01:55:09,965 --> 01:55:13,845
because this is, you know, based on approximations

2108
01:55:13,865 --> 01:55:16,365
but keeps it from becoming totally

2109
01:55:16,965 --> 01:55:18,485
egregiously bright, which was the goal.

2110
01:55:18,485 --> 01:55:20,085
They're not gonna want to go on the bright side

2111
01:55:20,085 --> 01:55:22,965
of the 2,600 number. Right. If you give them

2112
01:55:23,525 --> 01:55:24,525
A cap.

2113
01:55:24,525 --> 01:55:27,245
I think the difference between that is, is like setting nine

2114
01:55:27,245 --> 01:55:30,245
and setting 10 on your kitchen dimmer, like it's not much.

2115
01:55:32,585 --> 01:55:37,085
Ms. Owen, you have a 3000 lumens tester, do you?

2116
01:55:38,145 --> 01:55:39,245
We have a lumen tester.

2117
01:55:39,395 --> 01:55:40,685
Okay, good enough. Thank you.

2118
01:55:41,395 --> 01:55:44,245
Alright, so those Ms Mrs. Moore, anything you wish

2119
01:55:44,245 --> 01:55:46,445
to restructure or add to those two motions?

2120
01:55:47,515 --> 01:55:50,325
Well, I just wanna confirm, do you want lit topper

2121
01:55:50,325 --> 01:55:52,885
to be removed on the actual sign itself?

2122
01:55:53,625 --> 01:55:57,285
Yes. Okay. And then in internally lit sign

2123
01:55:58,075 --> 01:56:00,925
with less than 3000 is what we Yes.

2124
01:56:01,115 --> 01:56:02,325
Okay, Thank you

2125
01:56:04,265 --> 01:56:05,265
Mr.

2126
01:56:05,265 --> 01:56:05,745
Corbet.

2127
01:56:06,705 --> 01:56:09,325
We said we're putting in the down lighting top,

2128
01:56:09,505 --> 01:56:11,005
the down lighting topper is being removed?

2129
01:56:11,105 --> 01:56:13,125
Yes. Yeah, that works as it is on the rendering.

2130
01:56:13,435 --> 01:56:15,885
Okay. Otherwise I think you have the hours, you have,

2131
01:56:16,385 --> 01:56:17,725
you've capped the lumens.

2132
01:56:20,805 --> 01:56:22,125
I think the request was to make sure

2133
01:56:22,125 --> 01:56:24,925
that everything was clearly documented as to what we were

2134
01:56:24,925 --> 01:56:26,005
or were not approving.

2135
01:56:26,205 --> 01:56:29,365
I don't, I don't know what other guys's i's.

2136
01:56:29,365 --> 01:56:31,725
Were dotted and t's were crossed that we may be missing.

2137
01:56:31,885 --> 01:56:34,295
I think this is, I think this is everything.

2138
01:56:34,885 --> 01:56:37,975
Okay. Mr. Dietzel?

2139
01:56:39,075 --> 01:56:40,935
No, I'm all set. Thank you. Okay.

2140
01:56:41,395 --> 01:56:45,655
And are we putting light to be turned off at 9:00 PM or

2141
01:56:45,805 --> 01:56:48,775
Yeah, we have with timed lighting as specified.

2142
01:56:49,565 --> 01:56:50,565
Okay.

2143
01:56:52,685 --> 01:56:54,455
Yeah, 'cause they had an on and an off I believe.

2144
01:56:55,235 --> 01:56:58,975
And that would be with the internally lit motion?

2145
01:56:59,915 --> 01:57:00,495
That's correct.

2146
01:57:12,325 --> 01:57:12,615
Okay.

2147
01:57:13,595 --> 01:57:16,575
Yes. All right. With

2148
01:57:16,575 --> 01:57:18,735
that I think our motions are structured.

2149
01:57:18,875 --> 01:57:21,655
We can take a motion to come out of deliberation.

2150
01:57:23,645 --> 01:57:25,015
I'll make that motion. Mr.

2151
01:57:25,015 --> 01:57:27,335
Corbit motions out of deliberation. Mr.

2152
01:57:28,395 --> 01:57:30,015
Donlin Donlin seconds

2153
01:57:30,755 --> 01:57:32,735
and all in favor of coming outta deliberation?

2154
01:57:32,835 --> 01:57:36,335
Say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? All right,

2155
01:57:40,555 --> 01:57:41,645
Read the 42.

2156
01:57:42,515 --> 01:57:46,085
Yeah, let's do the 42.5 motion first.

2157
01:57:46,385 --> 01:57:49,365
We all set to roll through finding of fact.

2158
01:57:49,955 --> 01:57:51,805
Okay. What

2159
01:57:51,805 --> 01:57:52,805
Was the term that we got earlier?

2160
01:57:52,805 --> 01:57:53,605
It's uneven waters.

2161
01:57:55,505 --> 01:57:59,205
All right, Mrs. Moore, you have a motion to read?

2162
01:57:59,565 --> 01:58:04,365
I do. Thank you. I make a motion on case number 26 dash

2163
01:58:05,035 --> 01:58:09,405
zero seven for by enterprises LLCJ

2164
01:58:09,985 --> 01:58:14,525
yco duly authorized to grant a variance to the terms

2165
01:58:14,625 --> 01:58:18,485
of article three, section 1 65

2166
01:58:18,995 --> 01:58:22,605
dash 1 0 1 0.1 of the town

2167
01:58:22,625 --> 01:58:26,125
of dairy zoning ordinance to allow the installation

2168
01:58:26,465 --> 01:58:30,845
of a 42.5 square foot

2169
01:58:31,595 --> 01:58:35,925
poly sign parcel ID 1 0 0 1 2

2170
01:58:36,255 --> 01:58:40,805
zoned LMDR as presented with the following conditions.

2171
01:58:41,065 --> 01:58:44,165
We have two, one subject to obtaining Allstate

2172
01:58:44,185 --> 01:58:46,365
and town permits and inspections.

2173
01:58:47,065 --> 01:58:50,245
Two, the lit topper is to be removed

2174
01:58:50,465 --> 01:58:52,405
and that concludes the reading of that motion.

2175
01:58:52,645 --> 01:58:53,645
I need a second.

2176
01:58:55,765 --> 01:59:00,325
A second. Oh. Motion seconded by Mr. Corbit. I think

2177
01:59:01,205 --> 01:59:02,805
I just wanted to make a correction.

2178
01:59:02,885 --> 01:59:06,325
I believe it's a 42.5 square foot pylon sign

2179
01:59:07,465 --> 01:59:10,365
Versus what did you hear?

2180
01:59:11,065 --> 01:59:14,445
Not pylon. Oh, include pylon into,

2181
01:59:14,715 --> 01:59:16,165
Yeah, sorry.

2182
01:59:16,235 --> 01:59:17,605
Okay. No, I think you said it.

2183
01:59:18,005 --> 01:59:19,685
I just wanted to make sure

2184
01:59:19,685 --> 01:59:21,965
that it was heard clearly by everyone.

2185
01:59:22,275 --> 01:59:25,405
Okay. Any other changes

2186
01:59:25,745 --> 01:59:27,605
or motions on the floor?

2187
01:59:27,745 --> 01:59:30,405
Mr. Dietzel? You all set? Yes. Okay.

2188
01:59:33,075 --> 01:59:34,285
Motions on the floor.

2189
01:59:34,985 --> 01:59:38,485
So we will go into finding a fact.

2190
01:59:42,185 --> 01:59:44,005
You have all that paperwork there? One of them.

2191
01:59:44,005 --> 01:59:45,685
Do you have the second one or a template?

2192
01:59:46,725 --> 01:59:46,965
I do.

2193
01:59:52,075 --> 01:59:55,125
Finding a fact for case 26 dash 1 0 7

2194
01:59:55,855 --> 02:00:00,845
Originally heard April 2nd, 2026 continued May 7th,

2195
02:00:02,425 --> 02:00:06,805
May 21st and concluded on June 4th, 2026.

2196
02:00:07,345 --> 02:00:10,605
The ZBA heard the application of Bird Enterprises LLC

2197
02:00:11,445 --> 02:00:14,285
represented by counsel concerning the property located at

2198
02:00:14,285 --> 02:00:19,005
180 7 Hampstead Road parcel ID 1 0 0 2 1 2

2199
02:00:19,705 --> 02:00:22,445
notice was provided to the immediate abutters per statute

2200
02:00:23,105 --> 02:00:25,205
and the board received testimony from the applicant

2201
02:00:25,205 --> 02:00:28,765
and legal counsel, town staff, and both Abutters

2202
02:00:28,765 --> 02:00:32,245
and members of the public documentary evidence included

2203
02:00:32,305 --> 02:00:35,805
but was not limited to site plans, photos, records

2204
02:00:36,105 --> 02:00:37,165
and expert testimony.

2205
02:00:38,145 --> 02:00:40,085
The property is located in the low medium density

2206
02:00:40,115 --> 02:00:41,485
residential zoning district.

2207
02:00:42,385 --> 02:00:45,085
The property is approximately 8.76 acres

2208
02:00:45,265 --> 02:00:48,765
and is currently a mixed youth nursery slash youth athletics

2209
02:00:48,765 --> 02:00:49,765
school and facility.

2210
02:00:50,945 --> 02:00:54,845
The proposal concerns variance relief from Article 12,

2211
02:00:54,915 --> 02:00:59,525
section 1 65 dash 1 0 1 1 for a 42

2212
02:00:59,525 --> 02:01:01,405
and a half square foot pylon sign.

2213
02:01:02,225 --> 02:01:04,325
The board weighed testimony both for

2214
02:01:04,345 --> 02:01:06,805
and against the proposal over the course of

2215
02:01:07,625 --> 02:01:09,165
the prior three meetings.

2216
02:01:13,025 --> 02:01:17,325
Now with that we'll enter into discussing the five criteria.

2217
02:01:18,125 --> 02:01:23,005
I will start at the unnec at the board's findings as

2218
02:01:23,005 --> 02:01:25,405
to whether the unnecessary hardship was demonstrated

2219
02:01:26,195 --> 02:01:28,565
because of the hardship as it relates

2220
02:01:28,565 --> 02:01:30,485
to the unique characteristics of the property.

2221
02:01:33,685 --> 02:01:35,605
Starting to my right, I will start with Mr. Dietzel.

2222
02:01:36,385 --> 02:01:38,125
Yes, I believe that criteria end was

2223
02:01:38,185 --> 02:01:39,185
Met.

2224
02:01:41,495 --> 02:01:43,205
Would you care to elaborate at all or

2225
02:01:44,265 --> 02:01:48,685
Due to the nature of the property being a

2226
02:01:50,095 --> 02:01:52,445
commercial property in a residential zone

2227
02:01:53,625 --> 02:01:57,965
and the setback from the street, a sign is necessary

2228
02:01:58,345 --> 02:02:01,405
and denying the

2229
02:02:02,515 --> 02:02:07,365
application would not

2230
02:02:07,365 --> 02:02:11,925
allow him to use his property in a reasonable manner.

2231
02:02:13,375 --> 02:02:16,805
Thank you Mr. Diesel. Mr. Chair. I'll continue to my left.

2232
02:02:17,325 --> 02:02:20,285
I believe that the parcel under hardship is,

2233
02:02:21,185 --> 02:02:23,725
and we will cover all five criteria, correct?

2234
02:02:23,725 --> 02:02:24,725
Yes. We'll go through each of them.

2235
02:02:25,795 --> 02:02:28,285
That the property is, is in a unique setting

2236
02:02:28,505 --> 02:02:33,445
and that the burden, the property is burdened to be able to

2237
02:02:34,905 --> 02:02:38,445
be useful and the use currently

2238
02:02:39,305 --> 02:02:43,165
cannot be accompanied reasonably without a sign.

2239
02:02:43,945 --> 02:02:47,125
The property is not the only parcel

2240
02:02:47,705 --> 02:02:50,805
of this similar nature along the same roadway,

2241
02:02:51,615 --> 02:02:55,045
which has signage that is slightly larger

2242
02:02:56,465 --> 02:02:59,725
in, in places related

2243
02:02:59,865 --> 02:03:01,845
to their, their locale.

2244
02:03:04,295 --> 02:03:05,645
Thank you Mr. Chair. Ms. Mor,

2245
02:03:06,845 --> 02:03:10,445
I agree that it has been met with the properties

2246
02:03:11,705 --> 02:03:12,965
unique setback

2247
02:03:13,985 --> 02:03:18,525
and the sign is needed

2248
02:03:18,525 --> 02:03:23,045
because of the distance between the building and the road.

2249
02:03:25,035 --> 02:03:27,005
Okay, Mr. Dolan?

2250
02:03:27,785 --> 02:03:30,205
Yes, I too believe the HUD ship criteria has been

2251
02:03:30,385 --> 02:03:31,605
met for reasons stated.

2252
02:03:35,055 --> 02:03:39,595
Thank you Mr.

2253
02:03:39,655 --> 02:03:41,275
Corbet. Yep. And vice chair.

2254
02:03:41,365 --> 02:03:43,275
Sorry, starting this last one down

2255
02:03:43,275 --> 02:03:45,995
before I move, I also believe

2256
02:03:46,195 --> 02:03:48,435
that the hardship was displayed as I noted

2257
02:03:48,455 --> 02:03:50,555
before, especially due

2258
02:03:50,715 --> 02:03:52,915
to it being a non-residential mixed use allowed

2259
02:03:52,915 --> 02:03:54,035
within the residential zone.

2260
02:03:55,295 --> 02:03:59,155
As I went back through, again referencing RSA 6 74 dash 33

2261
02:03:59,595 --> 02:04:02,515
and the Harborside case that we heard about very early on,

2262
02:04:03,615 --> 02:04:05,395
the applicant's not required to show that it's necessary,

2263
02:04:05,395 --> 02:04:07,715
just that it's a reasonable use given the property

2264
02:04:07,715 --> 02:04:08,795
special conditions.

2265
02:04:09,295 --> 02:04:11,395
You know, as I stated before, I believe that

2266
02:04:12,515 --> 02:04:16,355
the planning board determining that, I don't believe that

2267
02:04:16,885 --> 02:04:19,195
their approval means that it should be rubber stamped,

2268
02:04:19,415 --> 02:04:21,275
but I do think that their determination

2269
02:04:21,275 --> 02:04:23,315
that the use is allowed, that it's relevant when you

2270
02:04:23,555 --> 02:04:26,195
evaluating it, that they have a fair right

2271
02:04:26,255 --> 02:04:27,475
not to show that the sign exists.

2272
02:04:29,145 --> 02:04:33,235
Okay. Next,

2273
02:04:33,415 --> 02:04:34,415
Moving along.

2274
02:04:35,505 --> 02:04:37,525
I'll start with Mr. Donlan. Mr.

2275
02:04:37,545 --> 02:04:39,325
Donlin, do you find that the board's finding,

2276
02:04:40,825 --> 02:04:43,205
do you find the board's findings that this is not contrary?

2277
02:04:43,495 --> 02:04:45,245
Sorry, are your findings

2278
02:04:45,245 --> 02:04:47,125
that this is not contrary to the public interest?

2279
02:04:49,265 --> 02:04:51,685
Yes. My findings are that this is not contrary

2280
02:04:51,685 --> 02:04:55,485
to the public interest for all the reasons that we stated

2281
02:04:55,945 --> 02:04:57,325
during the deliberative station.

2282
02:04:59,085 --> 02:05:00,445
I can reiterate them.

2283
02:05:06,585 --> 02:05:11,425
I believe I agreed with the comments made during

2284
02:05:11,575 --> 02:05:16,265
that time and added, which I'll add again here just to, to

2285
02:05:16,785 --> 02:05:19,225
reiterate the, the traffic patterns

2286
02:05:19,285 --> 02:05:23,265
and adverse effects of

2287
02:05:24,885 --> 02:05:28,865
people out of town without the, without knowing

2288
02:05:29,695 --> 02:05:31,105
what they're coming up upon.

2289
02:05:34,115 --> 02:05:36,185
Thank you, Ms. Morton.

2290
02:05:36,865 --> 02:05:39,865
I agree that the variance will not be contrary

2291
02:05:40,005 --> 02:05:41,305
to the public interest.

2292
02:05:41,985 --> 02:05:43,705
I feel the sign being there,

2293
02:05:43,885 --> 02:05:46,385
it will eliminate potential hard braking

2294
02:05:46,525 --> 02:05:48,865
and, you know, dangerous U-turns.

2295
02:05:53,115 --> 02:05:55,145
Thank you, Mr. Chair.

2296
02:05:55,535 --> 02:05:58,665
Yeah, I, I believe that the public interest is served.

2297
02:05:59,025 --> 02:06:02,665
I think that the sign does not alter the essential

2298
02:06:02,665 --> 02:06:03,865
character of the neighborhood.

2299
02:06:05,515 --> 02:06:07,665
There are sporadic signs of this nature

2300
02:06:09,835 --> 02:06:11,465
along this same stretch.

2301
02:06:11,775 --> 02:06:14,985
I've reiterated that, just wanna articulate it clearly.

2302
02:06:15,455 --> 02:06:17,225
This is not an intimate neighborhood

2303
02:06:17,645 --> 02:06:21,665
and it is a thoroughfare through way

2304
02:06:22,605 --> 02:06:24,105
for a lot of commuter traffic,

2305
02:06:24,205 --> 02:06:27,425
and I think that this enhances signage will enhance

2306
02:06:27,485 --> 02:06:32,105
and help with safety and identification for emergencies.

2307
02:06:33,695 --> 02:06:36,685
Okay. One moment.

2308
02:06:40,545 --> 02:06:41,545
Mr. Dietzel.

2309
02:06:43,245 --> 02:06:45,565
I agree it's not contrary to the public interest

2310
02:06:46,085 --> 02:06:47,125
for the reasons stated

2311
02:06:49,425 --> 02:06:51,445
by the other proceeding members.

2312
02:07:07,695 --> 02:07:11,155
And as I mentioned during deliberative, I believe the sign

2313
02:07:11,775 --> 02:07:13,075
has been appropriately scaled.

2314
02:07:13,435 --> 02:07:14,875
I think it's been appropriately designed.

2315
02:07:15,155 --> 02:07:17,555
I think it's been revised in a manner

2316
02:07:17,555 --> 02:07:18,715
that works with the property.

2317
02:07:19,305 --> 02:07:21,795
Also, while considering the surrounding residential

2318
02:07:21,795 --> 02:07:24,275
character, I don't think it's gonna adversely affect traffic

2319
02:07:25,175 --> 02:07:26,875
safety or the visual conditions.

2320
02:07:27,935 --> 02:07:29,555
And I believe that the revised changes

2321
02:07:29,655 --> 02:07:31,755
to the light brightness and the hours are gonna ensure

2322
02:07:31,755 --> 02:07:33,595
that the internal lighting doesn't create a material

2323
02:07:33,985 --> 02:07:35,965
different aesthetic from what previously existed

2324
02:07:35,965 --> 02:07:37,885
with the church, with the spotlights

2325
02:07:37,885 --> 02:07:39,245
and with everything that was bringing attention

2326
02:07:39,685 --> 02:07:42,845
with the externally illuminated signs, I do not think

2327
02:07:42,845 --> 02:07:44,845
that it results in a substantial detriment

2328
02:07:44,845 --> 02:07:46,805
to the public good or a der

2329
02:07:47,925 --> 02:07:49,685
derivation from the intent of the zoning bylaw.

2330
02:07:54,945 --> 02:07:58,365
Now, Mr. Dietzel, do you find that

2331
02:07:58,915 --> 02:08:00,605
this application is consistent

2332
02:08:00,605 --> 02:08:01,965
with the spirit of the ordinance?

2333
02:08:02,865 --> 02:08:03,525
Yes, I do.

2334
02:08:08,705 --> 02:08:10,765
The spirit of the ordinance is to keep the,

2335
02:08:11,025 --> 02:08:12,525
the area residential

2336
02:08:13,065 --> 02:08:17,925
and I don't see how this sign in its in its

2337
02:08:19,125 --> 02:08:21,845
diminished capacity from the, the, the

2338
02:08:22,765 --> 02:08:25,765
previous proposals would have any effect on the,

2339
02:08:25,785 --> 02:08:29,285
on the essential character or of the, of the neighborhood.

2340
02:08:29,485 --> 02:08:31,685
I don't think it's a material difference.

2341
02:08:32,175 --> 02:08:34,245
Thank you Mr. Zel, Mr. Chair

2342
02:08:38,575 --> 02:08:39,805
Spear of the ordinance, correct?

2343
02:08:39,985 --> 02:08:43,085
Yes. Yeah, I believe

2344
02:08:43,085 --> 02:08:45,285
that this meets the spear of the ordinance.

2345
02:08:45,425 --> 02:08:47,925
As I've indicated, there's not a district in the town

2346
02:08:47,925 --> 02:08:51,325
that does not allow some sort of signage for a business

2347
02:08:52,305 --> 02:08:56,205
either through special exception or otherwise.

2348
02:08:56,785 --> 02:09:00,725
And therefore not allowing that same privilege here

2349
02:09:01,305 --> 02:09:05,445
for this applicant would be a detriment to to them.

2350
02:09:05,465 --> 02:09:08,845
And I think that that meets this spirit of the ordinance.

2351
02:09:10,775 --> 02:09:14,485
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Ms. Morin, do you believe that

2352
02:09:15,635 --> 02:09:17,525
this is consistent with the spirit of the ordinance?

2353
02:09:18,125 --> 02:09:22,205
I do because it's a permitted commercial use on the

2354
02:09:22,445 --> 02:09:25,405
property and reasonable

2355
02:09:25,885 --> 02:09:27,845
identification is necessary.

2356
02:09:34,035 --> 02:09:38,945
Sorry, I'll get you in one moment, Mr. Doman. Sorry.

2357
02:09:38,945 --> 02:09:40,185
Reasonable identification.

2358
02:09:40,975 --> 02:09:45,945
Yeah, because where it's a permitted use. Yep,

2359
02:09:46,425 --> 02:09:47,425
I got it.

2360
02:09:47,425 --> 02:09:48,745
I forgot the last word. Alright, Mr.

2361
02:09:49,025 --> 02:09:50,825
Lin, do you feel that this is consistent within

2362
02:09:50,885 --> 02:09:51,905
the spirit of the ordinance?

2363
02:09:53,225 --> 02:09:55,985
I do feel that this is consistent with the spirit

2364
02:09:55,985 --> 02:09:58,745
of the ordinance for reasons discussed

2365
02:09:58,745 --> 02:10:01,145
during deliberative session, and I believe

2366
02:10:01,145 --> 02:10:02,825
that this is reasonably similar

2367
02:10:02,925 --> 02:10:05,945
to other signage in the general area

2368
02:10:16,945 --> 02:10:18,485
And vice chair.

2369
02:10:18,605 --> 02:10:20,725
I also believe the spirit of the ordinance is met.

2370
02:10:20,845 --> 02:10:23,725
I believe the sign serves clear identification function

2371
02:10:23,785 --> 02:10:26,125
for uses that have already been lawfully authorized

2372
02:10:26,705 --> 02:10:28,245
on the property through the planning board's,

2373
02:10:28,245 --> 02:10:29,005
mixed use approval,

2374
02:10:34,235 --> 02:10:34,925
four or five.

2375
02:10:36,225 --> 02:10:37,725
Mr. Donlin, do you find

2376
02:10:37,725 --> 02:10:39,685
that substantial justice would be served

2377
02:10:39,785 --> 02:10:41,445
by denying this variance request?

2378
02:10:44,565 --> 02:10:48,685
I do not. I feel like substantial justice is done

2379
02:10:49,985 --> 02:10:52,285
in granting the variance

2380
02:10:56,095 --> 02:10:58,795
as for reasons we discussed during deliberative session.

2381
02:11:01,205 --> 02:11:03,395
Thank You. Use case

2382
02:11:08,895 --> 02:11:09,895
And Ms. Martin.

2383
02:11:10,595 --> 02:11:13,915
I believe substantial justice is done as it's reasonable.

2384
02:11:14,615 --> 02:11:15,715
The request is,

2385
02:11:23,975 --> 02:11:25,395
And Mr. Perkins, Mr. Chair,

2386
02:11:25,585 --> 02:11:28,195
There's no gain to the public by denying this.

2387
02:11:28,735 --> 02:11:31,115
The applicant has revised their plans

2388
02:11:31,175 --> 02:11:33,675
to accommodate the direct abutters

2389
02:11:34,135 --> 02:11:37,755
of which there are only two households

2390
02:11:37,755 --> 02:11:40,075
that have protested this.

2391
02:11:40,455 --> 02:11:44,515
And I think that their accommodations have met the,

2392
02:11:45,015 --> 02:11:47,875
the testimony given by those individuals.

2393
02:11:49,485 --> 02:11:49,915
Thank you.

2394
02:11:54,345 --> 02:11:56,365
And the vice chair agrees with the chair.

2395
02:11:56,405 --> 02:11:58,525
I believe that denying the variance would impose a real

2396
02:11:58,525 --> 02:11:59,885
and practical burden on the applicant

2397
02:12:00,285 --> 02:12:02,525
and that it would limit the reasonable identification

2398
02:12:02,525 --> 02:12:04,525
of the multiple approved onsite uses.

2399
02:12:05,325 --> 02:12:07,765
I think ranting it results in little

2400
02:12:07,765 --> 02:12:09,285
to no corresponding harm to the public.

2401
02:12:09,445 --> 02:12:09,725
I agree.

2402
02:12:15,395 --> 02:12:18,295
All right. And lastly, oh, sorry Ms. Fu,

2403
02:12:20,255 --> 02:12:22,255
I, My, my sincere apologies on that.

2404
02:12:23,375 --> 02:12:26,255
I agree. For recent state by chair and vice chair.

2405
02:12:28,465 --> 02:12:30,085
All right. I'm not gonna make that mistake twice.

2406
02:12:30,465 --> 02:12:34,045
So why don't you tell me if you feel if the applicant has

2407
02:12:34,325 --> 02:12:36,285
adequately demonstrated that the surrounding property

2408
02:12:36,285 --> 02:12:37,485
values will not be diminished?

2409
02:12:39,485 --> 02:12:42,765
I believe he has. The applicant has by,

2410
02:12:43,705 --> 02:12:46,285
by greatly reducing the size and,

2411
02:12:46,345 --> 02:12:47,685
and the brightness of the sign.

2412
02:12:47,805 --> 02:12:51,805
I think he's, he's demonstrated that this would be neutral

2413
02:12:51,835 --> 02:12:53,805
with respect to surrounding property values.

2414
02:12:56,745 --> 02:12:58,335
Thank you Mr. Chair.

2415
02:12:59,125 --> 02:13:00,215
Yeah, I don't believe

2416
02:13:00,215 --> 02:13:02,815
that there's any diminuation of property value.

2417
02:13:03,015 --> 02:13:04,855
I think the prior building that was there,

2418
02:13:05,515 --> 02:13:07,375
or that was existing

2419
02:13:07,375 --> 02:13:09,375
before the applicant took it over

2420
02:13:10,035 --> 02:13:13,655
is an increase in property value and by Right.

2421
02:13:13,665 --> 02:13:17,975
Their ability to communicate with the public

2422
02:13:20,035 --> 02:13:23,495
in a modified sense is not going

2423
02:13:23,495 --> 02:13:25,295
to diminish anybody's property value.

2424
02:13:27,545 --> 02:13:31,445
Thank you. Ms. Moore.

2425
02:13:32,565 --> 02:13:33,845
I feel that the values

2426
02:13:34,065 --> 02:13:38,845
of surrounding properties are not dis diminished either due

2427
02:13:38,845 --> 02:13:42,725
to evidence that the abutters had given us

2428
02:13:42,865 --> 02:13:43,965
and the applicant

2429
02:13:44,035 --> 02:13:47,245
that it would essentially, to me it's neutral.

2430
02:13:49,375 --> 02:13:50,605
Thank you Mr. Dolan.

2431
02:13:51,205 --> 02:13:52,765
I believe the values of the surrounding

2432
02:13:52,765 --> 02:13:53,925
properties are not diminished.

2433
02:13:55,055 --> 02:13:57,965
Again for reasons we discussed in the deliberative session,

2434
02:13:58,185 --> 02:14:01,045
as well as reiterated here by the chair.

2435
02:14:03,735 --> 02:14:04,205
Thank You.

2436
02:14:12,025 --> 02:14:15,045
And as I noted during deliberative, you know, we,

2437
02:14:15,065 --> 02:14:16,845
we heard testimony from both sides on this one,

2438
02:14:18,145 --> 02:14:19,485
but I'm looking at this

2439
02:14:19,485 --> 02:14:22,405
through the new New Hampshire State Supreme Court precedent

2440
02:14:22,405 --> 02:14:24,045
that, you know, we can rely on our own knowledge

2441
02:14:24,385 --> 02:14:28,285
and the knowledge and expertise driving through the area.

2442
02:14:28,465 --> 02:14:30,125
You know, I really believe that the sign

2443
02:14:30,225 --> 02:14:31,885
and a well-designed sign of that at the entrance

2444
02:14:31,885 --> 02:14:34,045
of the property at a location that was approved

2445
02:14:34,045 --> 02:14:35,285
during a site plan review,

2446
02:14:35,965 --> 02:14:38,165
I don't think it's gonna negatively impact the values

2447
02:14:38,265 --> 02:14:39,285
of the surrounding properties.

2448
02:14:39,765 --> 02:14:44,125
I just, I don't see it. So with that,

2449
02:14:44,445 --> 02:14:46,645
that concludes the finding of fact.

2450
02:14:47,235 --> 02:14:51,085
This also includes all testimony that took place

2451
02:14:51,745 --> 02:14:52,925
during the meeting minutes.

2452
02:14:53,515 --> 02:14:56,165
Does anybody have any additions or addendums to make?

2453
02:14:58,705 --> 02:14:59,965
All right. Scene adjusters.

2454
02:15:01,535 --> 02:15:04,685
Shall we make the finding of fact applicable

2455
02:15:04,745 --> 02:15:06,325
to both motions?

2456
02:15:08,555 --> 02:15:11,365
I'll make a motion to, we find the use the finding

2457
02:15:11,385 --> 02:15:13,165
of fact on both motions.

2458
02:15:13,315 --> 02:15:15,445
Very good. Mr. Dietzel a second, please.

2459
02:15:15,995 --> 02:15:17,765
I'll second. Anybody Wanna discuss that?

2460
02:15:19,415 --> 02:15:22,335
I specifically didn't mention any lighting,

2461
02:15:23,835 --> 02:15:26,655
so I would hate for it to come back, you know,

2462
02:15:26,655 --> 02:15:27,975
based on that technicality.

2463
02:15:28,805 --> 02:15:32,015
However, the reasons that I stated for each

2464
02:15:32,015 --> 02:15:36,855
of the five criteria, I think that having, you know,

2465
02:15:36,935 --> 02:15:41,265
a diminished light to me it's the same as the sign.

2466
02:15:41,285 --> 02:15:43,625
You know, I, I understand that we've separated it,

2467
02:15:43,625 --> 02:15:46,465
but it doesn't affect the facts

2468
02:15:46,465 --> 02:15:47,905
that I found on the five criteria.

2469
02:15:48,165 --> 02:15:51,265
So perhaps I would apply it

2470
02:15:51,265 --> 02:15:53,585
or note that my other notes is that

2471
02:15:53,685 --> 02:15:55,065
to me the lighting doesn't change

2472
02:15:55,065 --> 02:15:56,105
any of the opinions I gave.

2473
02:15:56,495 --> 02:16:01,145
Okay, so finding a fact applies to both

2474
02:16:01,695 --> 02:16:03,745
motions, correct?

2475
02:16:04,715 --> 02:16:06,725
Yeah. Alright. Mr.

2476
02:16:07,195 --> 02:16:11,725
Dietzel made the motion seconded by I second Mrs. Mor.

2477
02:16:11,825 --> 02:16:15,405
All in favor say aye. Aye. Opposed? All right.

2478
02:16:15,965 --> 02:16:17,285
That becomes less painful.

2479
02:16:18,545 --> 02:16:20,005
All right, so all in favor

2480
02:16:20,025 --> 02:16:22,725
of moving the first motion ahead for votes.

2481
02:16:23,025 --> 02:16:26,685
Aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Any? None. Mr. Corbett?

2482
02:16:27,565 --> 02:16:29,365
I vote yes. Mrs. Moore

2483
02:16:29,535 --> 02:16:30,365
Chair? I vote yes.

2484
02:16:30,505 --> 02:16:31,845
Mr. Dietzel? Mr.

2485
02:16:31,845 --> 02:16:34,565
Is for, sorry, just to act for the 42 and a half, correct?

2486
02:16:34,995 --> 02:16:39,325
That is for the four, two and a half? Yes. Yep. Mr. Mr.

2487
02:16:39,435 --> 02:16:43,045
Dietzel? Yes. Okay. Mr. Donlin? Yes.

2488
02:16:44,745 --> 02:16:46,045
Mr. Moore, you voted already?

2489
02:16:46,285 --> 02:16:47,365
I did. I voted yes.

2490
02:16:47,435 --> 02:16:50,845
Alright, so the chair votes yes as well by, makes that

2491
02:16:52,115 --> 02:16:54,085
unanimous by a vote of five to zero.

2492
02:16:56,225 --> 02:16:58,485
MSS Moore, you have a second motion to read? I

2493
02:16:58,485 --> 02:16:59,485
Do.

2494
02:16:59,765 --> 02:17:04,325
I make a motion on case number two six dash 1 0 7

2495
02:17:04,905 --> 02:17:09,645
for Byrd Enterprises, LLCJ KO

2496
02:17:10,635 --> 02:17:13,485
duly authorized to grant a variance to the terms

2497
02:17:13,625 --> 02:17:14,805
of Article three,

2498
02:17:14,915 --> 02:17:19,885
section 1 65 dash 1 0 1 1

2499
02:17:20,185 --> 02:17:23,365
of the town of dairy zoning ordinance to allow

2500
02:17:25,225 --> 02:17:27,325
and internally lit sign

2501
02:17:27,515 --> 02:17:29,645
with less than 3000

2502
02:17:30,005 --> 02:17:34,855
lumens and

2503
02:17:36,755 --> 02:17:38,095
Lit topper to be removed

2504
02:17:38,395 --> 02:17:40,255
In the lit topper to be removed.

2505
02:17:40,715 --> 02:17:45,655
Parcel ID 1 0 0 1 2 Zoned

2506
02:17:45,775 --> 02:17:48,815
LMDR as presented with the following conditions,

2507
02:17:49,875 --> 02:17:52,015
we have two.

2508
02:17:52,235 --> 02:17:55,215
One subject to all state and town permits and inspections

2509
02:17:55,555 --> 02:17:58,775
and the second would be with the time that was specified.

2510
02:17:59,315 --> 02:18:00,935
And that concludes the reading of the motion.

2511
02:18:01,355 --> 02:18:04,295
And that would be time lighting as specified? Yes.

2512
02:18:04,495 --> 02:18:07,135
Sorry, with time delighting as specified.

2513
02:18:07,245 --> 02:18:11,015
Very good. Any addendums

2514
02:18:11,015 --> 02:18:13,175
or changes proposed to that motion?

2515
02:18:13,815 --> 02:18:15,335
I think we can capture the time. All right.

2516
02:18:15,335 --> 02:18:17,735
In the minutes after from Very good. Okay.

2517
02:18:18,675 --> 02:18:22,495
All in favor of moving that motion for a vote? Say aye. Aye.

2518
02:18:22,635 --> 02:18:27,415
Aye. Mr. Dietzel? Yes. Mr. Corbett? Yes. Ms. Morn? Yes.

2519
02:18:27,635 --> 02:18:29,335
Mr. Donlin? Yes.

2520
02:18:29,795 --> 02:18:32,895
And Mr. Perkins will make that unanimous as well

2521
02:18:32,995 --> 02:18:34,415
by a vote of five to zero.

2522
02:18:35,925 --> 02:18:39,975
Gentlemen, you've been approved for this painful trail

2523
02:18:40,315 --> 02:18:44,615
as it is and I, I appreciate your compromise to the abutters

2524
02:18:44,795 --> 02:18:46,935
and all the testimony that was given.

2525
02:18:47,725 --> 02:18:51,055
Obviously anybody agreed by this has 30 days to bring

2526
02:18:51,055 --> 02:18:52,575
that forward to the board and

2527
02:18:52,575 --> 02:18:55,895
after that recourse would be to some other venue.

2528
02:18:56,705 --> 02:18:57,975
Thank you for your patience

2529
02:18:58,315 --> 02:19:01,935
and sorry for the, the pain that this has been.

2530
02:19:02,325 --> 02:19:05,895
Wish you well, sorry. Thank you. Thank you. Good luck.

2531
02:19:11,625 --> 02:19:11,925
I'm sorry.

2532
02:19:17,035 --> 02:19:19,365
Yeah. All right.

2533
02:19:21,115 --> 02:19:22,165
What do we have left here?

2534
02:19:22,265 --> 02:19:24,445
We have Promise Promised Land here.

2535
02:19:26,565 --> 02:19:29,205
Promised land survey, you're here. Okay.

2536
02:19:31,065 --> 02:19:33,845
You had Kilduff Realty Trust is here.

2537
02:19:34,315 --> 02:19:38,245
Alright, I don't think we can get to you folks. Yes. Okay.

2538
02:19:39,185 --> 02:19:41,245
If you'd like, we can extend you

2539
02:19:41,245 --> 02:19:43,445
to the next scheduled meeting. Okay.

2540
02:19:44,115 --> 02:19:48,045
Just sheriff, I've asked, so on behalf of building trust,

2541
02:19:48,365 --> 02:19:50,925
I think there are a number of members of the public here.

2542
02:19:51,905 --> 02:19:53,685
The other motion 1 1 4.

2543
02:19:54,185 --> 02:19:56,205
Do you have a sense if we could at least

2544
02:19:56,745 --> 02:19:58,805
my presentation would take under 10 minutes,

2545
02:19:59,105 --> 02:20:00,105
Who are you?

2546
02:20:00,105 --> 02:20:02,165
Brandon Wilson, Marine Planning

2547
02:20:02,185 --> 02:20:05,445
and Design LLC from on behalf of the buildups?

2548
02:20:06,465 --> 02:20:07,965
No, we're not gonna take any testimony,

2549
02:20:07,965 --> 02:20:09,605
we're not gonna take anything on that.

2550
02:20:09,925 --> 02:20:12,965
I think what we're going to do is let you reschedule.

2551
02:20:14,405 --> 02:20:16,125
I can't get into, you know, you're gonna open

2552
02:20:16,125 --> 02:20:19,045
with five criteria and then you're gonna get into testimony

2553
02:20:19,145 --> 02:20:23,685
and I don't see that getting abbreviated in in any sense.

2554
02:20:24,025 --> 02:20:27,085
The case number 26 1 1 4 was up next.

2555
02:20:27,105 --> 02:20:30,125
So we're gonna plug them in and hopefully get through that

2556
02:20:30,705 --> 02:20:31,765
before 10 o'clock.

2557
02:20:32,585 --> 02:20:37,165
All right, so we will, who is, who's the,

2558
02:20:37,375 --> 02:20:39,725
who's representing, are you representing Kilda?

2559
02:20:39,745 --> 02:20:42,325
Yes. Okay, so does the next scheduled meeting

2560
02:20:42,395 --> 02:20:43,405
work for you? The

2561
02:20:43,605 --> 02:20:46,125
18th, 18th, Mrs.

2562
02:20:46,595 --> 02:20:51,045
Correct. Owen. Owen, right? Yes. Yes.

2563
02:20:51,265 --> 02:20:53,125
Put you on there for that please.

2564
02:20:53,235 --> 02:20:55,805
Finding a fact obviously is dragging this out.

2565
02:20:58,315 --> 02:21:02,285
Good intentions but anyway.

2566
02:21:02,475 --> 02:21:05,085
Alright, so 26 dash one 16.

2567
02:21:05,545 --> 02:21:09,605
Motion to table to the next meeting. Mr.

2568
02:21:09,955 --> 02:21:13,565
Corbett, has that motion your mic on? No, no. Mr.

2569
02:21:13,595 --> 02:21:14,685
Corbitt has motion. I'll make

2570
02:21:14,685 --> 02:21:15,685
That motion second.

2571
02:21:16,005 --> 02:21:17,565
A second on that please. Second Mr.

2572
02:21:17,795 --> 02:21:21,285
Dietzel seconds that table.

2573
02:21:21,785 --> 02:21:25,525
One to 26 to the next scheduled meeting. June 18th.

2574
02:21:25,585 --> 02:21:29,005
All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Alright.

2575
02:21:29,635 --> 02:21:32,925
Alright, next up is 26 dash 14

2576
02:21:34,405 --> 02:21:38,445
promised land and survey LLC representing

2577
02:21:39,155 --> 02:21:41,565
Peabody Family Revocable Trust

2578
02:21:47,785 --> 02:21:48,785
1 1 4.

2579
02:21:59,515 --> 02:22:01,605
Good evening, Mr. Chairman, members of the board.

2580
02:22:02,035 --> 02:22:04,165
Good evening. My name's Ari ***********>

2581
02:22:04,185 --> 02:22:06,165
I'm an attorney at the Gallagher Callahan

2582
02:22:06,165 --> 02:22:07,205
and Gartrell Law Firm.

2583
02:22:07,405 --> 02:22:11,005
I have a letter of authorization signed by the trustees

2584
02:22:11,065 --> 02:22:13,485
of the Peabody Trust that I'd like to submit

2585
02:22:13,485 --> 02:22:14,765
to staff for your file.

2586
02:22:15,435 --> 02:22:17,645
Very good. Ms. Solan, can you receive that please?

2587
02:22:17,775 --> 02:22:20,605
While I'm heading that way, I also have a broker's opinion

2588
02:22:20,625 --> 02:22:23,045
of value that I'd like to make part of our testimony.

2589
02:22:23,725 --> 02:22:26,045
You have enough copies for Everybody? I do. Okay,

2590
02:22:26,115 --> 02:22:27,115
Very good.

2591
02:22:31,945 --> 02:22:34,125
As I mentioned Mr. Chairman, members of the board,

2592
02:22:34,225 --> 02:22:35,325
my name's Ari *******.

2593
02:22:35,345 --> 02:22:37,645
I'm an attorney here for the Peabody Family Trust,

2594
02:22:37,705 --> 02:22:41,045
the landowners of 26.5 Ballard Road

2595
02:22:41,145 --> 02:22:44,925
and Derry with me this evening are the trustees, Jen

2596
02:22:44,925 --> 02:22:47,285
and Craig Peaty and Craig is seated to my right.

2597
02:22:48,075 --> 02:22:50,485
Also with me in the gallery is Neil McCarthy

2598
02:22:50,485 --> 02:22:51,685
of Promised Land survey.

2599
02:22:52,435 --> 02:22:56,885
Neil actually prepared the application for the Peabody's

2600
02:22:56,945 --> 02:22:59,245
and his firm has surveyed the lot in question.

2601
02:22:59,945 --> 02:23:02,765
I'm late to the party, which is why I have the letter

2602
02:23:02,765 --> 02:23:04,205
of authority for you this evening.

2603
02:23:05,145 --> 02:23:08,645
The application seeks a variance from ordinance section

2604
02:23:08,865 --> 02:23:12,485
1 65 47 to allow development

2605
02:23:12,505 --> 02:23:17,085
of a single family home to hit the elements of the variance

2606
02:23:17,145 --> 02:23:19,205
and then move into explanation.

2607
02:23:19,905 --> 02:23:22,765
The variance will not be contrary to the public interest

2608
02:23:22,765 --> 02:23:26,325
because the proposed single family dwelling is consistent

2609
02:23:26,325 --> 02:23:28,045
with the area's present usage

2610
02:23:28,385 --> 02:23:31,605
and the lot can be improved without overcrowding.

2611
02:23:32,225 --> 02:23:34,045
The spirit of the ordinance is observed

2612
02:23:34,045 --> 02:23:36,525
because the proposed single family dwelling

2613
02:23:37,065 --> 02:23:39,245
is again consistent with the neighborhood

2614
02:23:39,745 --> 02:23:41,685
and the lot has sufficient area,

2615
02:23:43,225 --> 02:23:44,405
but a unique layout

2616
02:23:44,595 --> 02:23:46,925
that provides separation from structures.

2617
02:23:47,555 --> 02:23:49,085
Substantial justice is done

2618
02:23:49,085 --> 02:23:52,045
because the proposed single family dwelling is consistent

2619
02:23:52,455 --> 02:23:54,285
again with the character of the neighborhood

2620
02:23:54,285 --> 02:23:57,005
and the application of the zoning ordinance

2621
02:23:57,005 --> 02:24:00,165
to this uniquely shaped lot would not allow

2622
02:24:00,185 --> 02:24:01,405
for any development.

2623
02:24:01,705 --> 02:24:03,765
The proposal frankly, is consistent

2624
02:24:03,795 --> 02:24:06,525
with other zoning requirements such

2625
02:24:06,525 --> 02:24:08,645
as building setbacks and lot size.

2626
02:24:09,505 --> 02:24:12,205
The values of the surrounding properties will not be

2627
02:24:12,405 --> 02:24:16,085
diminished because the proposed single family dwelling is

2628
02:24:16,325 --> 02:24:18,445
consistent with the homes in the neighborhood

2629
02:24:18,705 --> 02:24:20,205
and the lot can accommodate

2630
02:24:20,205 --> 02:24:22,125
that structure without overcrowding.

2631
02:24:22,715 --> 02:24:25,485
Literal enforcement of the provisions

2632
02:24:25,485 --> 02:24:29,885
of the ordinance would result in an unnecessary hardship due

2633
02:24:29,885 --> 02:24:31,805
to the unique configuration of the lot.

2634
02:24:32,965 --> 02:24:35,285
Restrict adherence to the ordinance will not allow

2635
02:24:35,285 --> 02:24:37,765
for development of a single family home,

2636
02:24:38,015 --> 02:24:39,845
which isn't allowed use in the zone.

2637
02:24:40,665 --> 02:24:43,565
And even though the lot meets the area requirements

2638
02:24:43,905 --> 02:24:47,245
and its unique configuration allows adequate spacing

2639
02:24:47,245 --> 02:24:50,085
and separation between the proposed dwellings

2640
02:24:50,085 --> 02:24:51,365
and the existing dwellings.

2641
02:24:52,305 --> 02:24:55,205
The proposed use is a reasonable one in that it allows

2642
02:24:55,265 --> 02:24:56,525
for a single family home

2643
02:24:56,945 --> 02:24:59,965
to be constructed on a uniquely shaped lot

2644
02:25:01,655 --> 02:25:04,045
consistent with the character of the neighborhood

2645
02:25:04,665 --> 02:25:07,885
and the unique configuration of the lot

2646
02:25:07,985 --> 02:25:11,005
and its narrow frontage is the really the main obstacle

2647
02:25:11,065 --> 02:25:13,285
for development and is the subject

2648
02:25:13,385 --> 02:25:15,285
of the explanation I'd like

2649
02:25:15,285 --> 02:25:16,925
to provide if it pleases the board.

2650
02:25:18,905 --> 02:25:21,125
The parcel contains 2.7 acres

2651
02:25:21,225 --> 02:25:25,245
and it has ample building envelope for a residence.

2652
02:25:26,345 --> 02:25:29,525
We submitted a zoning exhibit with the application, if

2653
02:25:29,525 --> 02:25:32,405
that might be able to be brought up.

2654
02:25:34,305 --> 02:25:37,885
The residential use is allowed or that one would do it.

2655
02:25:38,185 --> 02:25:41,965
The the, the residential use is allowed in the low medium

2656
02:25:41,965 --> 02:25:44,045
density residential district

2657
02:25:44,465 --> 02:25:47,045
and in this case the relief saw is dimensional

2658
02:25:47,065 --> 02:25:51,085
and involves the frontage and driveway to the building area

2659
02:25:51,105 --> 02:25:52,445
or building envelope.

2660
02:25:53,505 --> 02:25:56,885
The building area is accessed via a connection from Ballard

2661
02:25:56,915 --> 02:25:58,325
Road that is eight

2662
02:25:58,865 --> 02:26:02,325
108 feet wide at its frontage approximately

2663
02:26:02,325 --> 02:26:04,845
35 feet wide.

2664
02:26:04,915 --> 02:26:07,285
Over the course of its narrowed length,

2665
02:26:07,825 --> 02:26:10,845
the ordinance requires 150 feet in terms

2666
02:26:10,845 --> 02:26:12,285
of both frontage and width.

2667
02:26:12,305 --> 02:26:15,845
And therefore we've asked for variances in order

2668
02:26:15,865 --> 02:26:19,405
to make the lot buildable for a single family residence.

2669
02:26:20,065 --> 02:26:23,205
The building envelope, the septic field, the existing, well,

2670
02:26:23,435 --> 02:26:26,325
they're all typical of residential development in this

2671
02:26:26,325 --> 02:26:28,565
zoning district and in the surrounding neighborhood.

2672
02:26:28,985 --> 02:26:30,645
And all of those are sufficient

2673
02:26:30,645 --> 02:26:33,365
for construction without special relief.

2674
02:26:34,245 --> 02:26:38,485
The issue, as I mentioned, is the proposed driveway

2675
02:26:39,065 --> 02:26:42,045
and the story of this property started long

2676
02:26:42,045 --> 02:26:44,405
before my clients bought it in 2025

2677
02:26:45,475 --> 02:26:48,405
when they closed last October, they understood

2678
02:26:48,405 --> 02:26:50,405
that a variance that, excuse me,

2679
02:26:50,405 --> 02:26:52,045
that variances had been approved

2680
02:26:52,385 --> 02:26:55,965
and that the lot was developable for their intended use

2681
02:26:56,545 --> 02:26:57,845
as a residence.

2682
02:26:58,655 --> 02:27:02,165
Their only interest in the lot is as residential.

2683
02:27:02,875 --> 02:27:04,325
They reside in London dairy.

2684
02:27:04,325 --> 02:27:05,605
They own a local business

2685
02:27:05,605 --> 02:27:08,165
that operates both in London dairy and in dairy.

2686
02:27:08,505 --> 02:27:11,325
And this lot is intended to be their retirement residence.

2687
02:27:11,635 --> 02:27:15,325
They want to move to dairy after they closed on the lot.

2688
02:27:15,385 --> 02:27:18,365
And as their house plans were progressing towards a spring

2689
02:27:18,725 --> 02:27:21,325
construction start this year, they became aware

2690
02:27:21,325 --> 02:27:24,405
that the lot variances had been valid

2691
02:27:25,145 --> 02:27:28,485
but had expired actually prior to their purchase

2692
02:27:28,625 --> 02:27:31,605
and prior to the lot even being listed for sale.

2693
02:27:32,345 --> 02:27:35,645
So there's something of the, the victim here

2694
02:27:36,145 --> 02:27:39,085
and they unknowingly stepped into some considerable

2695
02:27:39,525 --> 02:27:43,645
procedural history, which frankly is now a a

2696
02:27:43,845 --> 02:27:44,965
a significant burden.

2697
02:27:45,825 --> 02:27:49,765
The variances that expired in 2025 were actually the subject

2698
02:27:49,825 --> 02:27:52,885
of litigation both in front

2699
02:27:52,885 --> 02:27:55,405
of the New Hampshire Housing Appeals Board

2700
02:27:55,425 --> 02:27:58,125
and then even to the New Hampshire Supreme Court.

2701
02:27:58,585 --> 02:28:00,965
And again, before my clients were involved,

2702
02:28:01,035 --> 02:28:05,485
this board actually voted in 2021

2703
02:28:06,265 --> 02:28:10,245
by a vote of two to three to deny the relief.

2704
02:28:10,855 --> 02:28:13,485
Litigation was then brought to determine

2705
02:28:13,485 --> 02:28:16,325
that the variance was appropriate under the circumstances

2706
02:28:17,065 --> 02:28:20,205
and they were approved by the board, affirmed by the court.

2707
02:28:21,345 --> 02:28:23,965
And they lived for two years by statute.

2708
02:28:25,345 --> 02:28:27,885
The building permit was not pulled during that period

2709
02:28:27,985 --> 02:28:32,925
and the variances expired in August of 2025, again prior

2710
02:28:32,945 --> 02:28:35,125
to the listing, prior to my client's closing.

2711
02:28:35,225 --> 02:28:38,085
And of course, sadly prior to their knowledge

2712
02:28:38,085 --> 02:28:40,325
that the variances were no longer valid.

2713
02:28:40,985 --> 02:28:43,765
So we're asking that the property be put back into the

2714
02:28:43,965 --> 02:28:47,445
position where it was left by the courts in 2023

2715
02:28:48,035 --> 02:28:50,685
with variances to allow a residential use

2716
02:28:51,705 --> 02:28:54,045
by driveway constructed from Ballard Road.

2717
02:28:55,355 --> 02:28:59,325
Just to expand a bit on the verbiage in the application,

2718
02:28:59,505 --> 02:29:01,405
and I'll be brief, I know the hour is late,

2719
02:29:02,985 --> 02:29:05,805
the variance will not be contrary to the public interest.

2720
02:29:06,305 --> 02:29:07,845
The district is residential

2721
02:29:08,185 --> 02:29:11,245
and this a single family home is exactly what's proposed.

2722
02:29:11,785 --> 02:29:14,605
The lot's sufficiently sized with a building envelope

2723
02:29:14,605 --> 02:29:15,645
to support a house.

2724
02:29:15,995 --> 02:29:19,245
There's room for water, there's room for septic,

2725
02:29:19,245 --> 02:29:21,405
there's room for driveway, there's room for parking,

2726
02:29:22,115 --> 02:29:23,805
yard setbacks can be honored

2727
02:29:24,185 --> 02:29:26,285
and there's sufficient room for the driveway

2728
02:29:26,345 --> 02:29:29,765
to be laid out in a functional and typical width.

2729
02:29:29,795 --> 02:29:32,205
With its typical shoulders,

2730
02:29:33,305 --> 02:29:36,965
the public interest is served by the creation

2731
02:29:37,025 --> 02:29:38,205
of additional housing.

2732
02:29:38,665 --> 02:29:40,205
And if it weren't for relief,

2733
02:29:40,525 --> 02:29:43,445
this lot would not have a reasonable residential use.

2734
02:29:44,225 --> 02:29:46,605
The spirit and intent of the ordinance would be observed

2735
02:29:46,605 --> 02:29:50,245
because the proposed dwelling is entirely consistent

2736
02:29:50,245 --> 02:29:51,485
with surrounding uses

2737
02:29:51,905 --> 02:29:53,285
and building setbacks

2738
02:29:53,305 --> 02:29:55,925
for the structure can be observed in full.

2739
02:29:56,505 --> 02:29:58,765
The ordinance protects against overcrowding

2740
02:29:58,765 --> 02:30:00,125
and unreasonable massing.

2741
02:30:00,305 --> 02:30:03,165
And in this case, that's exactly what would be accomplished.

2742
02:30:03,645 --> 02:30:05,765
A house that fits nicely between other houses

2743
02:30:05,985 --> 02:30:09,765
and other neighbors, the driveway would again be

2744
02:30:10,325 --> 02:30:11,565
functional and would appear.

2745
02:30:11,645 --> 02:30:14,725
Typical substantial justice is done

2746
02:30:14,725 --> 02:30:17,045
because the residential use of the lots allowed

2747
02:30:17,465 --> 02:30:20,285
and the gain to the landowner is not overshadowed

2748
02:30:20,385 --> 02:30:23,485
by inconvenience or harm to the abutting owners.

2749
02:30:24,715 --> 02:30:25,805
There's more of a burden

2750
02:30:25,825 --> 02:30:28,325
to the applicant if the variance would be

2751
02:30:28,795 --> 02:30:30,205
variances were to be denied.

2752
02:30:30,745 --> 02:30:33,605
And the lot can be developed in the same manner as that,

2753
02:30:33,605 --> 02:30:35,725
which surrounds it with really no greater

2754
02:30:35,785 --> 02:30:37,325
or lesser intensity of use.

2755
02:30:37,475 --> 02:30:39,765
It's more of the same. It's a driveway

2756
02:30:39,765 --> 02:30:41,045
servicing a single home.

2757
02:30:41,905 --> 02:30:44,885
The values of the surrounding properties are not diminished

2758
02:30:44,905 --> 02:30:48,365
by the proposal because the proposed use is again, the same

2759
02:30:48,365 --> 02:30:49,645
as what surrounds it.

2760
02:30:49,865 --> 02:30:52,325
And if anything, the development of new, efficient

2761
02:30:52,325 --> 02:30:54,605
and well-maintained construction will

2762
02:30:54,605 --> 02:30:55,965
enhance neighborhood values.

2763
02:30:56,505 --> 02:30:57,725
And on this point, we've

2764
02:30:57,965 --> 02:31:00,565
provided an opinion from a local broker,

2765
02:31:00,655 --> 02:31:02,725
Julie McMaster of Caldwell Banker.

2766
02:31:03,185 --> 02:31:04,725
She is here tonight. She's available

2767
02:31:04,745 --> 02:31:05,885
to answer your questions.

2768
02:31:06,545 --> 02:31:08,485
In short, I will share with you

2769
02:31:08,545 --> 02:31:10,765
and save you the a moment

2770
02:31:10,835 --> 02:31:14,445
that Julie's letter recites not only her experience in the

2771
02:31:14,445 --> 02:31:18,445
local market, but also her professional opinion that the use

2772
02:31:18,445 --> 02:31:20,645
of this lot for residents will not

2773
02:31:21,205 --> 02:31:22,325
diminish surrounding values.

2774
02:31:22,945 --> 02:31:25,685
One more house won't hurt is essentially the message.

2775
02:31:26,345 --> 02:31:30,045
And she writes that higher ended, excuse me,

2776
02:31:30,045 --> 02:31:32,445
higher end well maintained homes will help

2777
02:31:32,465 --> 02:31:33,765
and not hurt abutting values.

2778
02:31:34,265 --> 02:31:35,405
And that the development

2779
02:31:35,405 --> 02:31:39,205
of vacant lots essentially reserves uncertainty over

2780
02:31:39,315 --> 02:31:41,045
what would be there someday.

2781
02:31:41,345 --> 02:31:43,885
If anything, what you see is what you get.

2782
02:31:45,365 --> 02:31:47,445
I, I am wrapping it up, Mr. Chairman.

2783
02:31:47,715 --> 02:31:51,365
Another factor in valuation is whether the function

2784
02:31:51,425 --> 02:31:54,205
or use of the neighbor's properties would be impaired

2785
02:31:54,305 --> 02:31:58,325
by the variances that are sought in this case.

2786
02:31:58,715 --> 02:32:03,165
Some survey work done prior to the application

2787
02:32:04,005 --> 02:32:07,125
determined that the neighbors to the north, the Harvey's,

2788
02:32:07,225 --> 02:32:10,205
and maybe they're here, were using a driveway

2789
02:32:10,205 --> 02:32:12,525
that they actually, or their predecessors had actually

2790
02:32:12,555 --> 02:32:16,365
constructed over a corner of the subject lot

2791
02:32:17,105 --> 02:32:19,485
and they were using an existing hammerhead

2792
02:32:19,535 --> 02:32:21,405
turnaround near their home.

2793
02:32:21,795 --> 02:32:25,165
That also came over the property line onto the subject lot.

2794
02:32:26,405 --> 02:32:28,485
I can share with you that an easement was granted

2795
02:32:29,065 --> 02:32:33,805
by our sellers in 2025 in connection with the closing

2796
02:32:33,945 --> 02:32:37,325
to my client to rectify this situation

2797
02:32:37,785 --> 02:32:39,125
and the easements on record.

2798
02:32:39,265 --> 02:32:43,525
And it essentially allows their improvements to remain as is

2799
02:32:44,435 --> 02:32:47,325
neither of those easements affects our ability

2800
02:32:47,665 --> 02:32:50,445
to lay down a driveway and it's exam.

2801
02:32:50,665 --> 02:32:53,085
It is an example of neighbors working together

2802
02:32:53,585 --> 02:32:56,245
to accommodate each other and predict value.

2803
02:32:57,945 --> 02:33:00,645
Lastly, literal enforcement would

2804
02:33:01,065 --> 02:33:04,005
of the ordinance would result in UE hardship due

2805
02:33:04,005 --> 02:33:06,685
to the unique configuration of this property.

2806
02:33:06,745 --> 02:33:09,365
You can see it in red on the screen.

2807
02:33:09,945 --> 02:33:11,965
The lot has plenty of building envelope

2808
02:33:12,745 --> 02:33:15,765
and it was actually intended to be a community well for

2809
02:33:16,515 --> 02:33:17,845
this development of homes.

2810
02:33:19,065 --> 02:33:21,205
But there's a minimal access route

2811
02:33:22,075 --> 02:33:24,965
because it was originally intended as a utility parcel.

2812
02:33:25,635 --> 02:33:29,485
Fast forward to today and the issues of frontage

2813
02:33:29,485 --> 02:33:31,005
and width will

2814
02:33:31,005 --> 02:33:35,365
otherwise deprive the landowners of what is a reasonable

2815
02:33:35,425 --> 02:33:39,045
and allowed use that's pursued by all of the properties

2816
02:33:39,045 --> 02:33:40,445
that surround it.

2817
02:33:40,865 --> 02:33:43,885
The lot can be reasonably developed with a typical driveway

2818
02:33:44,185 --> 02:33:46,205
and we're proposing screening

2819
02:33:46,205 --> 02:33:48,445
and landscaping to help shield

2820
02:33:49,385 --> 02:33:51,245
the abutter on the other side

2821
02:33:51,245 --> 02:33:54,165
of the driveway from some concern relating

2822
02:33:54,165 --> 02:33:55,445
to headlight glare.

2823
02:33:56,385 --> 02:33:58,045
At the end of the day, we're talking about

2824
02:33:58,605 --> 02:34:02,645
a typical residential amount of traffic, a few cars coming

2825
02:34:02,665 --> 02:34:04,245
and going from one house the same

2826
02:34:04,245 --> 02:34:06,405
as every other house in the neighborhood.

2827
02:34:07,465 --> 02:34:10,485
And I I, I won't bore you with all the details,

2828
02:34:10,595 --> 02:34:11,725
I'll read the case to you,

2829
02:34:12,385 --> 02:34:15,165
but I can share that the New Hampshire Supreme Court,

2830
02:34:15,545 --> 02:34:19,725
as recently as 2018, did recognize that irregular

2831
02:34:19,825 --> 02:34:24,605
and unique lot shape can serve as a basis for a hardship.

2832
02:34:24,985 --> 02:34:28,845
And that was the Rochester City Council v Rochester ZBA

2833
02:34:29,425 --> 02:34:31,165
two boards in Rochester suing each other.

2834
02:34:31,225 --> 02:34:32,525
It must have been a rip roaring time

2835
02:34:34,085 --> 02:34:37,765
constructing a similarly constructing on a similarly

2836
02:34:37,765 --> 02:34:39,125
shaped panhandle lot.

2837
02:34:40,305 --> 02:34:42,685
Let me just summarize our evidence if I can please.

2838
02:34:43,825 --> 02:34:45,005
The use is reasonable

2839
02:34:45,625 --> 02:34:48,805
and we line up well with the established principles

2840
02:34:49,025 --> 02:34:51,845
of 6 74 33.

2841
02:34:52,665 --> 02:34:55,445
The Peabodys, my clients were not aware

2842
02:34:55,445 --> 02:34:59,565
that the prior variances had expired prior to their purchase

2843
02:34:59,705 --> 02:35:02,645
and frankly they now wish that they were.

2844
02:35:03,785 --> 02:35:06,205
The proposal is for a single family residence.

2845
02:35:06,515 --> 02:35:08,565
It's consistent with everything that surrounds it

2846
02:35:08,825 --> 02:35:11,525
and the house can be built observing setbacks

2847
02:35:11,525 --> 02:35:13,085
and the spirit of the ordinance.

2848
02:35:13,705 --> 02:35:16,565
The lot has a unique shape that justifies relief

2849
02:35:16,945 --> 02:35:19,685
and that shape does not affect the building envelope

2850
02:35:19,785 --> 02:35:24,445
or the ability to lay out a typical driveway of width

2851
02:35:24,825 --> 02:35:26,285
and shoulders.

2852
02:35:26,745 --> 02:35:29,885
The layout accommodates the easements that were granted

2853
02:35:29,905 --> 02:35:34,125
to the north and proposes some screening for the abutter

2854
02:35:34,125 --> 02:35:37,485
to the south, and the usage would be entirely typical

2855
02:35:38,505 --> 02:35:42,045
and light relative to a single residence.

2856
02:35:42,605 --> 02:35:45,725
I mentioned Mc, Ms. McMaster is here for any questions

2857
02:35:45,725 --> 02:35:46,965
regarding her opinion.

2858
02:35:47,585 --> 02:35:51,565
And Mr. McCarthy is here regarding any opinions relating

2859
02:35:51,785 --> 02:35:55,605
to survey or lot layout or building envelope.

2860
02:35:56,505 --> 02:35:57,965
And of course the peabodys

2861
02:35:57,965 --> 02:36:00,605
and I are here for your questions as well.

2862
02:36:01,145 --> 02:36:02,925
Our, our summation is simply

2863
02:36:03,525 --> 02:36:07,285
that the peabodys face considerable financial harm if the

2864
02:36:07,285 --> 02:36:10,725
lot can't be used for a residence that's consistent

2865
02:36:10,955 --> 02:36:12,565
with its surroundings and, and

2866
02:36:12,565 --> 02:36:15,365
otherwise a a reasonable proposal.

2867
02:36:15,735 --> 02:36:17,165
Thank you for your consideration.

2868
02:36:17,705 --> 02:36:19,925
The access easement you're speaking of, is

2869
02:36:19,925 --> 02:36:22,805
that noted in the middle of that driveway stretch?

2870
02:36:23,065 --> 02:36:25,125
Is that where that's at? It is, yep. Okay.

2871
02:36:25,125 --> 02:36:28,765
And what's your proposal on reducing glare or whatever?

2872
02:36:29,425 --> 02:36:32,405
We have some planting shown on that concept plan. Okay.

2873
02:36:32,405 --> 02:36:34,085
We're certainly open to suggestions.

2874
02:36:34,105 --> 02:36:36,925
The idea is something evergreen that will prevent glare

2875
02:36:37,505 --> 02:36:38,565
all seasons of the year.

2876
02:36:39,125 --> 02:36:41,565
I think one of the conflicts that this board saw

2877
02:36:41,565 --> 02:36:44,125
before when it was this case was this lot was

2878
02:36:44,125 --> 02:36:47,925
before us was, I see, I see the plantings

2879
02:36:48,505 --> 02:36:53,365
was travel disturbing of the, of the

2880
02:36:54,245 --> 02:36:57,325
abutters there on 1 0 3 dash 22.

2881
02:36:58,905 --> 02:37:02,845
And so noting that, that the board recognized

2882
02:37:04,185 --> 02:37:09,165
to its failure, the disruption to their property,

2883
02:37:09,365 --> 02:37:13,405
I I can appreciate that and their presence of mind.

2884
02:37:14,525 --> 02:37:17,485
I can appreciate the proposal of the line of trees.

2885
02:37:18,225 --> 02:37:21,005
The easement, circular easement area

2886
02:37:21,075 --> 02:37:23,565
that you've noted on there goes into the back

2887
02:37:23,585 --> 02:37:27,245
of these parcels that are along Ballard Road,

2888
02:37:27,385 --> 02:37:28,605
you know, on the frontage there.

2889
02:37:29,315 --> 02:37:31,325
What is that, what is your intention for

2890
02:37:31,325 --> 02:37:32,965
that radius in there?

2891
02:37:33,195 --> 02:37:35,405
That easement area? You gonna leave it alone?

2892
02:37:36,445 --> 02:37:37,965
I, I believe we're gonna leave it alone

2893
02:37:37,985 --> 02:37:39,525
and use it as it's laid out today.

2894
02:37:39,915 --> 02:37:41,845
Okay, very good. As this plan is

2895
02:37:41,845 --> 02:37:43,045
depicting the That's correct.

2896
02:37:43,265 --> 02:37:47,085
The layout. Okay. I rest for, for now.

2897
02:37:47,365 --> 02:37:51,445
Anybody else on the board have questions? Mr.

2898
02:37:52,895 --> 02:37:55,445
Abiba, can you entertain us on this one? Thank you Mr.

2899
02:37:55,665 --> 02:37:57,005
Donlin. I will.

2900
02:37:57,185 --> 02:38:01,965
You good on that Mr. Dietzel? Any questions?

2901
02:38:02,385 --> 02:38:04,245
No, thank you Mr. Chair. Mr. Corbett.

2902
02:38:06,065 --> 02:38:09,005
So realistically I remember this case well from last time.

2903
02:38:12,425 --> 02:38:14,285
You know, just a couple of points to that.

2904
02:38:14,365 --> 02:38:16,605
I disa just get into it.

2905
02:38:16,605 --> 02:38:19,125
I disagreed with the overturn when it took place.

2906
02:38:19,365 --> 02:38:22,085
I felt the board did dot its i's cross its t's,

2907
02:38:22,665 --> 02:38:25,285
but I don't say that outta a place of bias as I was one

2908
02:38:25,285 --> 02:38:28,285
of the two who voted in favor of the prior applicant.

2909
02:38:30,045 --> 02:38:32,445
I just say that as I look at it again today,

2910
02:38:32,685 --> 02:38:35,245
I don't see any changes to that request

2911
02:38:35,385 --> 02:38:37,845
and my feelings are still, I think I'm just kind

2912
02:38:37,845 --> 02:38:39,485
of getting into my deliberative portion,

2913
02:38:39,585 --> 02:38:41,885
but I have no questions for the applicant at this time.

2914
02:38:42,825 --> 02:38:46,375
I'd like to hear some of, I'd like to hear,

2915
02:38:47,085 --> 02:38:50,775
hear from everybody and then kinda go from there. Sorry.

2916
02:38:51,235 --> 02:38:54,855
That's alright. Mrs. Morin,

2917
02:38:57,495 --> 02:38:59,935
I as well want to hear from others

2918
02:39:00,235 --> 02:39:03,255
as their concerns.

2919
02:39:03,365 --> 02:39:05,415
Okay. Mr. Darlin, you have any questions at all?

2920
02:39:06,015 --> 02:39:08,775
I do not, sir. Alright, let's go over code enforcement.

2921
02:39:08,775 --> 02:39:10,535
Ms. Owen, you wanna help us out with your staff?

2922
02:39:10,985 --> 02:39:12,895
Thank you. Not a lot to add here.

2923
02:39:12,945 --> 02:39:16,095
Other very detailed presentation.

2924
02:39:16,235 --> 02:39:18,895
But as we're aware, the applicants are requesting a variance

2925
02:39:18,895 --> 02:39:20,255
to allow a con, the construction

2926
02:39:20,255 --> 02:39:22,215
of a single family home on a lot

2927
02:39:22,215 --> 02:39:25,215
with less than the required minimum lot width

2928
02:39:25,355 --> 02:39:27,015
or frontage at the minimum lot width.

2929
02:39:29,005 --> 02:39:31,135
This property is located in the low medium density

2930
02:39:31,205 --> 02:39:33,455
residential district, which requires a minimum

2931
02:39:33,515 --> 02:39:35,535
of 150 foot lot frontage

2932
02:39:35,955 --> 02:39:37,615
and a minimum lot width

2933
02:39:37,675 --> 02:39:41,055
of 150 feet at the 35 foot front setback line

2934
02:39:41,515 --> 02:39:44,455
or 150 feet at the front lot line.

2935
02:39:44,645 --> 02:39:47,095
Therefore, the variance is being requested this evening.

2936
02:39:48,555 --> 02:39:50,455
As has been previously stated,

2937
02:39:50,555 --> 02:39:53,495
and the board may recall this parcel was previously denied a

2938
02:39:53,495 --> 02:39:56,695
variance in 2021 to allow the construction

2939
02:39:56,695 --> 02:39:58,095
of a single family home on the property.

2940
02:39:58,245 --> 02:39:59,655
That decision was appealed

2941
02:39:59,915 --> 02:40:02,455
to the Housing Appeals Board in 2022,

2942
02:40:02,585 --> 02:40:05,455
which resulted in the reversal of the ZBA a's decision.

2943
02:40:06,525 --> 02:40:09,775
That decision was subsequent, subsequently appealed

2944
02:40:10,835 --> 02:40:13,015
to the New Hampshire Supreme Court, which

2945
02:40:13,805 --> 02:40:17,445
affirmed Habs decision that was in August,

2946
02:40:17,445 --> 02:40:19,285
August 17th, 2023.

2947
02:40:19,785 --> 02:40:21,805
And it has been si two years since

2948
02:40:22,115 --> 02:40:23,685
that final order was issued.

2949
02:40:23,685 --> 02:40:25,765
Therefore, the variance has expired.

2950
02:40:27,205 --> 02:40:28,765
Property is serviced by private well

2951
02:40:28,825 --> 02:40:31,925
and onsite private septic system if approved.

2952
02:40:31,985 --> 02:40:34,245
The driveway for the new home must be constructed

2953
02:40:34,305 --> 02:40:36,525
to the town of Derry standards as required

2954
02:40:36,525 --> 02:40:38,605
by the land development control regulations

2955
02:40:39,465 --> 02:40:41,205
and if approved standard permits

2956
02:40:41,205 --> 02:40:42,525
and inspections will be required.

2957
02:40:44,465 --> 02:40:46,245
And hence you may have covered this,

2958
02:40:46,245 --> 02:40:49,125
but that's why this, this is back before us now

2959
02:40:49,125 --> 02:40:50,845
because the, the

2960
02:40:50,945 --> 02:40:54,685
as specified by Mr.

2961
02:40:54,835 --> 02:40:57,685
*******, the variance had expired

2962
02:40:59,025 --> 02:41:02,085
and per statute were required to hear that again

2963
02:41:02,085 --> 02:41:04,045
unless an extension had been granted, right?

2964
02:41:04,045 --> 02:41:05,325
That's correct. Very good.

2965
02:41:05,325 --> 02:41:09,125
Thank you folks who have anything else you wish

2966
02:41:09,145 --> 02:41:10,525
to say to us at this point?

2967
02:41:11,085 --> 02:41:12,165
I would only make the comment

2968
02:41:12,275 --> 02:41:15,205
that there were changes in circumstances since the last

2969
02:41:15,205 --> 02:41:17,245
time, which was the granting of an easement

2970
02:41:17,245 --> 02:41:19,845
to benefit the property to the north so

2971
02:41:19,845 --> 02:41:22,965
that their improvements could remain as constructed.

2972
02:41:23,685 --> 02:41:24,925
And I believe as are used

2973
02:41:25,825 --> 02:41:30,285
and the proposed screening on the south side,

2974
02:41:30,645 --> 02:41:33,325
we're doing our best to make a unique

2975
02:41:33,345 --> 02:41:36,765
and oddly shaped property function well for everybody.

2976
02:41:37,675 --> 02:41:40,325
Even with those concessions, the driveway

2977
02:41:40,325 --> 02:41:43,045
that we're proposing would be of compliant with

2978
02:41:43,785 --> 02:41:46,285
and have a, a sufficient traveled way

2979
02:41:46,575 --> 02:41:47,845
along with some shoulders.

2980
02:41:48,195 --> 02:41:49,965
Okay. I I appreciate that clarification.

2981
02:41:50,765 --> 02:41:52,885
I did not mean that, that you guys were,

2982
02:41:52,925 --> 02:41:54,765
I appreciate the clar, the concessions as well.

2983
02:41:54,885 --> 02:41:57,565
I was looking at it more of a setback related

2984
02:41:57,795 --> 02:41:58,805
only certainly.

2985
02:41:58,805 --> 02:41:59,965
So I did not mean to dismiss

2986
02:42:00,755 --> 02:42:02,205
what you guys were working to do as well.

2987
02:42:02,375 --> 02:42:03,525
Thank you. We, we wish

2988
02:42:03,955 --> 02:42:06,525
that an extension request had been filed

2989
02:42:07,025 --> 02:42:09,205
and that we would have been buying something

2990
02:42:09,235 --> 02:42:10,805
with the relief we're requesting,

2991
02:42:11,225 --> 02:42:13,125
but that didn't turn out to be the case

2992
02:42:13,225 --> 02:42:14,725
and we're trying to rectify that

2993
02:42:14,725 --> 02:42:16,085
with this evening's application.

2994
02:42:16,415 --> 02:42:18,685
Thank you. Okay, well let's,

2995
02:42:18,685 --> 02:42:20,765
if you don't have anything else, let's go to public

2996
02:42:20,865 --> 02:42:22,085
and see what they have to say.

2997
02:42:22,825 --> 02:42:25,325
You'll just take a step back,

2998
02:42:25,385 --> 02:42:27,685
but you'll have an opportunity toBut. Okay.

2999
02:42:27,895 --> 02:42:28,965
Thank you. Thank

3000
02:42:28,965 --> 02:42:29,965
You.

3001
02:42:29,965 --> 02:42:31,205
Anybody in support of this application,

3002
02:42:31,205 --> 02:42:32,845
this is your opportunity to come forward.

3003
02:42:35,565 --> 02:42:39,285
I see no one rise, so this would be opportunity to oppose

3004
02:42:39,885 --> 02:42:41,685
anybody wishes to oppose this

3005
02:42:41,685 --> 02:42:45,205
application? Good evening.

3006
02:42:45,635 --> 02:42:46,165
Good evening.

3007
02:42:51,925 --> 02:42:56,325
I am Janet VER 20 Ballard Road, a butter

3008
02:42:56,785 --> 02:42:58,845
to 26.5.

3009
02:43:00,555 --> 02:43:01,605
This is about the third

3010
02:43:01,665 --> 02:43:06,165
or fourth time that I have sat in this seat in this matter

3011
02:43:06,505 --> 02:43:10,245
before the zoning board lot 26.5.

3012
02:43:11,165 --> 02:43:14,805
I should probably have my name printed on the back

3013
02:43:14,915 --> 02:43:15,965
that it's my jail.

3014
02:43:17,265 --> 02:43:21,005
It came before the zoning board in 2003

3015
02:43:22,065 --> 02:43:24,845
and it was turned down due to lack

3016
02:43:24,865 --> 02:43:29,845
of frontage on Ballard Road, 34 point

3017
02:43:30,565 --> 02:43:32,565
14 feet of frontage.

3018
02:43:33,745 --> 02:43:38,285
The LA land sat undisturbed since the end

3019
02:43:38,505 --> 02:43:42,605
of construction of ba, the Ballard Road subdivision,

3020
02:43:43,095 --> 02:43:45,605
which was in 1985.

3021
02:43:47,065 --> 02:43:50,005
But I'm sure this land has been a forest

3022
02:43:50,745 --> 02:43:53,245
for well over 100 years.

3023
02:43:55,145 --> 02:43:58,525
I'm sure some of the board members were weren't even alive

3024
02:43:58,905 --> 02:44:02,485
or did not even live in Derry in 1985.

3025
02:44:03,665 --> 02:44:07,445
You may not even know where this lot is

3026
02:44:08,625 --> 02:44:11,245
or what it topography looks like.

3027
02:44:12,235 --> 02:44:16,245
I'll enlighten you. This land is the highest

3028
02:44:16,615 --> 02:44:18,285
point on Ballard Road.

3029
02:44:19,465 --> 02:44:22,125
Yes, it has been mentioned at every hearing.

3030
02:44:23,765 --> 02:44:26,365
A well was driven on this site,

3031
02:44:27,345 --> 02:44:30,965
but not sufficient water could be obtained.

3032
02:44:32,405 --> 02:44:36,125
I ask who drills a well on the highest point

3033
02:44:36,125 --> 02:44:37,925
of land looking for water.

3034
02:44:39,365 --> 02:44:40,645
I might also add

3035
02:44:40,795 --> 02:44:44,845
that it was stated at the last zoning board meeting

3036
02:44:45,665 --> 02:44:50,485
on this lot that the property has not been taxed

3037
02:44:51,345 --> 02:44:53,125
as usable property.

3038
02:44:54,785 --> 02:44:59,125
One would think once a request for variance was denied due

3039
02:44:59,225 --> 02:45:03,445
to lack of frontage, that would be the end of all

3040
02:45:03,445 --> 02:45:04,965
of this back and forth.

3041
02:45:05,675 --> 02:45:10,525
However, not in this case, it came

3042
02:45:10,625 --> 02:45:14,605
before the zoning board in 2021

3043
02:45:15,715 --> 02:45:20,605
with a denied decision in 2022.

3044
02:45:21,835 --> 02:45:24,245
Same road variance issue.

3045
02:45:24,905 --> 02:45:27,205
And here we are back again.

3046
02:45:28,595 --> 02:45:30,605
Well that wasn't the end of it.

3047
02:45:31,595 --> 02:45:34,885
Mark Cooper is a proxy for John

3048
02:45:35,105 --> 02:45:37,165
and the estate of Edward Cooper

3049
02:45:38,265 --> 02:45:41,965
and his attorney of record went

3050
02:45:42,025 --> 02:45:45,445
before the New Hampshire Housing Appeals Board

3051
02:45:46,795 --> 02:45:50,805
made up of an attorney, a real estate agent,

3052
02:45:51,465 --> 02:45:53,885
and the land surveyor, two

3053
02:45:53,885 --> 02:45:57,165
of which oddly have the same last name.

3054
02:45:58,385 --> 02:46:02,885
And they were there to plead for the overturning

3055
02:46:03,305 --> 02:46:05,365
of the zoning board's decision.

3056
02:46:06,725 --> 02:46:10,325
Insufficient frontage in the discussion

3057
02:46:10,505 --> 02:46:12,045
by the appeals board.

3058
02:46:12,755 --> 02:46:16,685
Several frontage numbers were, as the saying goes

3059
02:46:17,385 --> 02:46:21,245
thrown against the wall to see which one would stick.

3060
02:46:22,525 --> 02:46:26,485
Starting with 31 point 14, 34

3061
02:46:26,615 --> 02:46:30,045
0.41, 108

3062
02:46:30,985 --> 02:46:32,365
and 118

3063
02:46:33,255 --> 02:46:36,125
where 150 feet is required.

3064
02:46:37,615 --> 02:46:41,785
With each number change, supposedly the earth expanded

3065
02:46:42,685 --> 02:46:44,505
in the cellar's favor

3066
02:46:46,165 --> 02:46:51,105
During the November 18th, 2021 meeting,

3067
02:46:52,865 --> 02:46:56,105
attorney Sullivan said that the frontage would be

3068
02:46:56,785 --> 02:47:00,585
108 feet, not 31 point 14

3069
02:47:01,765 --> 02:47:04,545
if the cul-de-sac were

3070
02:47:04,865 --> 02:47:07,065
reversed, but it was not.

3071
02:47:08,125 --> 02:47:12,585
So they settled on frontage being 108 feet.

3072
02:47:13,675 --> 02:47:17,785
Funny how the land seems to expand to fit the case.

3073
02:47:19,005 --> 02:47:22,945
Two variances required for this future development,

3074
02:47:23,835 --> 02:47:26,985
maybe even more once new problems arise.

3075
02:47:27,935 --> 02:47:31,985
This is not reasonable. The lot is a circle.

3076
02:47:33,405 --> 02:47:37,745
If it does not fit, do not commit to the allowance

3077
02:47:37,845 --> 02:47:38,865
of this variance.

3078
02:47:40,525 --> 02:47:43,865
I'm going to leave the frontage issue that is

3079
02:47:43,865 --> 02:47:47,665
before the board and go to the real reason

3080
02:47:48,045 --> 02:47:52,785
for the abuts objection to this being a buildable lot.

3081
02:47:54,435 --> 02:47:57,745
There is a saying that we all know water

3082
02:47:58,255 --> 02:47:59,505
runs downhill.

3083
02:48:00,895 --> 02:48:04,345
What I'm all alluding to is once one

3084
02:48:04,685 --> 02:48:08,145
or two acres of land has been deluded,

3085
02:48:09,245 --> 02:48:13,505
the water from rain, et cetera, has only one place to go.

3086
02:48:14,845 --> 02:48:16,505
Not to the original roots

3087
02:48:16,565 --> 02:48:18,385
and vegetation that was there

3088
02:48:19,295 --> 02:48:21,945
that will be gone but downhill.

3089
02:48:22,685 --> 02:48:26,305
And we have four families living in that area.

3090
02:48:27,945 --> 02:48:30,705
I must note that lot 26.5

3091
02:48:31,605 --> 02:48:35,705
is at a higher elevation to the abutting properties.

3092
02:48:36,875 --> 02:48:41,465
There is a rule called the reasonable use rule,

3093
02:48:42,075 --> 02:48:46,585
which says if a property owner's actions

3094
02:48:47,405 --> 02:48:51,105
result in unreasonable amounts of runoff

3095
02:48:51,695 --> 02:48:55,065
that damage neighboring pro properties,

3096
02:48:56,335 --> 02:48:59,425
they the owners can be held legally

3097
02:49:00,085 --> 02:49:02,105
and financially liable.

3098
02:49:03,525 --> 02:49:06,625
Not only the four direct abuts,

3099
02:49:07,665 --> 02:49:11,765
but 17 Mallard Road, which is across from 26,

3100
02:49:13,465 --> 02:49:17,245
has a down sloping driveway through their garage.

3101
02:49:18,185 --> 02:49:22,445
So any excessive runoff could end up in that garage.

3102
02:49:24,465 --> 02:49:29,205
The damage to the abutters that I am talking about is water

3103
02:49:29,725 --> 02:49:32,965
damaging foundations, filling cellars,

3104
02:49:33,795 --> 02:49:38,725
furnace damage, soil erosion pool filled

3105
02:49:38,795 --> 02:49:43,085
with mud and debris, and the rendering of a septic

3106
02:49:43,105 --> 02:49:47,365
and leach field system located in a back lawn

3107
02:49:48,175 --> 02:49:52,325
being completely damaged and in need of replacement.

3108
02:49:53,825 --> 02:49:57,765
We as a buts face all of these outcomes.

3109
02:49:59,475 --> 02:50:00,935
My caution to the board

3110
02:50:01,955 --> 02:50:06,455
and the owners of lot 26.5 is

3111
02:50:06,455 --> 02:50:10,495
that any work done on this property, if zoning allows,

3112
02:50:11,595 --> 02:50:15,795
be managed by a qualified engineer to ensure

3113
02:50:15,945 --> 02:50:20,235
that there is absolutely no runoff at any time

3114
02:50:21,505 --> 02:50:25,075
from whatever is being done has been done

3115
02:50:25,815 --> 02:50:27,755
or will be done in the future.

3116
02:50:29,335 --> 02:50:32,875
We as abuts have lived in peaceful enjoyment

3117
02:50:32,935 --> 02:50:37,235
of our property, taking care of it, improved it,

3118
02:50:38,065 --> 02:50:40,515
enjoyed our decks and backyards,

3119
02:50:41,295 --> 02:50:46,155
and now we lose whatever peace and quiet we once enjoyed.

3120
02:50:46,665 --> 02:50:51,315
Because once the destruction of the forest takes place

3121
02:50:52,175 --> 02:50:55,675
and the construction starts, our peace,

3122
02:50:56,935 --> 02:51:00,915
our quiet, our privacy will all be gone.

3123
02:51:02,075 --> 02:51:05,635
I note that we have two brothers who work from home.

3124
02:51:06,665 --> 02:51:09,795
Imagine what this noise will do

3125
02:51:10,255 --> 02:51:12,115
to their daily work schedule.

3126
02:51:14,135 --> 02:51:17,435
Listen, listening to the presentation by

3127
02:51:18,865 --> 02:51:22,365
the Peabody's attorney, I have two questions.

3128
02:51:23,675 --> 02:51:26,365
When the driveway is constructed,

3129
02:51:27,815 --> 02:51:30,085
especially at the top by the house,

3130
02:51:31,795 --> 02:51:34,965
will there be sufficient room for let's say

3131
02:51:36,545 --> 02:51:40,925
Gary's ladder firetruck to go up there, turn around

3132
02:51:41,185 --> 02:51:42,205
and come back down.

3133
02:51:46,515 --> 02:51:49,805
They also, the New Hampshire zoning,

3134
02:51:51,505 --> 02:51:55,645
New Hampshire Housing Board of Appeals in their

3135
02:51:56,525 --> 02:51:59,645
decision on this, stated

3136
02:51:59,795 --> 02:52:04,045
that screening vegetation shall be planted on the east side

3137
02:52:04,045 --> 02:52:06,485
of the driveway as needed

3138
02:52:07,345 --> 02:52:12,045
to provide a site buffer to the easterly butter.

3139
02:52:13,025 --> 02:52:15,765
It also needs to be a safety buffer

3140
02:52:16,395 --> 02:52:20,845
because 26 Ballard Road has a very young child

3141
02:52:21,465 --> 02:52:23,685
who likes to play in the yard.

3142
02:52:24,465 --> 02:52:28,605
And I can't imagine any UUPS

3143
02:52:28,665 --> 02:52:31,565
or oil truck or whatever coming down

3144
02:52:31,565 --> 02:52:33,525
that road on an icy morning.

3145
02:52:34,065 --> 02:52:37,205
And guess where it's gonna land in the yard

3146
02:52:37,705 --> 02:52:39,085
of 26 Ballard Road.

3147
02:52:40,185 --> 02:52:43,205
So I'd like you to

3148
02:52:43,855 --> 02:52:45,925
think about this.

3149
02:52:46,025 --> 02:52:49,685
If it were your home, my husband

3150
02:52:49,825 --> 02:52:52,485
and I have lived in this house for 41 years.

3151
02:52:53,665 --> 02:52:55,405
We are in our mid eighties.

3152
02:52:56,105 --> 02:52:58,685
We had hope that this would be our last home.

3153
02:52:59,585 --> 02:53:04,165
But with all of this happening, we may be forced to leave.

3154
02:53:05,185 --> 02:53:06,685
But thank you for your attention.

3155
02:53:08,465 --> 02:53:11,165
You know, I had an interesting conversation

3156
02:53:11,275 --> 02:53:14,245
with the two gentlemen at the Housing Appeals Board.

3157
02:53:14,885 --> 02:53:16,565
I asked them the same question you

3158
02:53:16,565 --> 02:53:17,845
presented, were they related?

3159
02:53:18,755 --> 02:53:21,285
They actually, oh they are not. Okay.

3160
02:53:21,625 --> 02:53:23,605
But, but one had long hair

3161
02:53:23,605 --> 02:53:27,285
and the other one didn't looked like total opposites.

3162
02:53:28,425 --> 02:53:31,685
And there was a question in there.

3163
02:53:32,565 --> 02:53:37,125
I mean, I think originally we came up with this, the

3164
02:53:37,705 --> 02:53:39,685
Fisher Doctrine laid into this, didn't it?

3165
02:53:39,685 --> 02:53:43,325
Yes. We ended up reviewing that, I believe between,

3166
02:53:43,585 --> 02:53:48,005
we tabled this the first night we went back to review,

3167
02:53:48,245 --> 02:53:50,525
I believe the 2003 document

3168
02:53:50,665 --> 02:53:53,565
and we reviewed it against the Fisher Doctrine, sorry.

3169
02:53:53,665 --> 02:53:58,485
And determined that we had to go through, it wasn't a,

3170
02:53:58,805 --> 02:54:00,765
I forget the exact, I'd have to have the minutes in front

3171
02:54:00,765 --> 02:54:02,605
of me, but I don't want to complicate it.

3172
02:54:02,605 --> 02:54:04,725
But we said it wasn't duplicative.

3173
02:54:05,625 --> 02:54:07,485
And I think overall we've ruled that we did have

3174
02:54:07,485 --> 02:54:12,205
to vote on it again because in 2003 maybe that's

3175
02:54:12,205 --> 02:54:13,405
where you're going with the Fisher Doc trial.

3176
02:54:13,405 --> 02:54:16,765
And the vote was structured in a very specific way. I know.

3177
02:54:16,985 --> 02:54:18,525
And then it changed that you no

3178
02:54:18,525 --> 02:54:19,885
longer had to do it that way.

3179
02:54:19,885 --> 02:54:23,805
Whereas in oh three every single board member had

3180
02:54:23,805 --> 02:54:25,165
to vote yes or no.

3181
02:54:25,315 --> 02:54:28,445
Unanimously it was simplex Simplex. That's it. Thank you.

3182
02:54:28,625 --> 02:54:30,925
And when we came back we realized that

3183
02:54:30,925 --> 02:54:32,005
what the change in the zoning law,

3184
02:54:32,005 --> 02:54:33,685
it's simplex no longer being applied,

3185
02:54:33,685 --> 02:54:36,805
which is seemingly the basis of the oh three ruling

3186
02:54:37,435 --> 02:54:38,685
that we were able to hear it again.

3187
02:54:39,945 --> 02:54:41,285
So I rest my case.

3188
02:54:41,835 --> 02:54:43,005
Okay. Well thank you.

3189
02:54:43,005 --> 02:54:44,925
Anybody else have any questions for Mrs.

3190
02:54:45,085 --> 02:54:47,405
Ver? No. Okay. Same. Thank

3191
02:54:47,405 --> 02:54:48,405
You.

3192
02:54:49,635 --> 02:54:52,525
Next we're gonna have to go to an extension.

3193
02:54:54,265 --> 02:54:56,005
Gerald, I'll make a motion. 15 minutes.

3194
02:54:56,475 --> 02:54:59,685
Okay. I second motion at 10 15.

3195
02:55:00,185 --> 02:55:02,325
If you would please go to 10 15

3196
02:55:02,325 --> 02:55:03,325
On that.

3197
02:55:03,325 --> 02:55:04,330
A motion to extend to 10 15.

3198
02:55:04,595 --> 02:55:08,165
Okay. Second by Mrs. Moore. And all in favor? Aye. Aye.

3199
02:55:08,265 --> 02:55:11,485
Aye. Any opposed? Hearing none. Good evening. Go ahead.

3200
02:55:12,395 --> 02:55:13,965
Good evening. My name's David Harvey.

3201
02:55:15,025 --> 02:55:17,605
I'm an order of 28 Ballard Road. Me and my wife.

3202
02:55:18,545 --> 02:55:20,805
One of the issues that I'd like to bring your attention

3203
02:55:20,805 --> 02:55:23,605
to is the easement that was supposedly filed.

3204
02:55:24,345 --> 02:55:27,045
If you look at the easement, you won't find mine

3205
02:55:27,045 --> 02:55:28,605
or my wife's signature on it.

3206
02:55:29,505 --> 02:55:32,485
It wasn't considered by us, negotiated by us or anything.

3207
02:55:32,485 --> 02:55:33,845
It wasn't presented to us at all.

3208
02:55:34,345 --> 02:55:36,485
We found out after the fact,

3209
02:55:36,735 --> 02:55:38,805
after the property was sold, that

3210
02:55:38,805 --> 02:55:40,365
that easement was submitted

3211
02:55:41,145 --> 02:55:44,365
and in that easement it says something about maintenance.

3212
02:55:44,365 --> 02:55:46,085
None of that was negotiated with us.

3213
02:55:46,665 --> 02:55:48,765
It was not a case of neighbors helping neighbors.

3214
02:55:49,305 --> 02:55:50,725
We didn't have a discussion about it.

3215
02:55:51,505 --> 02:55:54,805
So I don't know where this easement

3216
02:55:54,905 --> 02:55:56,285
or what this easement means

3217
02:55:57,115 --> 02:55:59,485
because we haven't spoken to the new owners.

3218
02:56:00,155 --> 02:56:01,605
They haven't come to talk to us at all.

3219
02:56:02,705 --> 02:56:07,445
So whatever that easement may provide to them in advance

3220
02:56:07,745 --> 02:56:11,445
to this project, I'm not sure.

3221
02:56:12,665 --> 02:56:14,285
We haven't been consulted or anything.

3222
02:56:14,305 --> 02:56:18,125
So the driveway that was put in,

3223
02:56:18,885 --> 02:56:20,565
I don't know how long it's been there,

3224
02:56:20,585 --> 02:56:24,525
but I would probably assume that it has been that way

3225
02:56:24,625 --> 02:56:27,405
for a very long time. That

3226
02:56:27,545 --> 02:56:29,765
So when you're referring to the driveway, you mean the one

3227
02:56:29,765 --> 02:56:33,845
that gets you from the half oval out to the build site?

3228
02:56:34,985 --> 02:56:37,325
The, the driveway that currently exists. My driveway.

3229
02:56:38,195 --> 02:56:39,685
Okay. That's what I'm trying to find.

3230
02:56:39,715 --> 02:56:42,405
Your driveway or the one that is,

3231
02:56:42,585 --> 02:56:45,445
was essentially a service access to this lot?

3232
02:56:46,605 --> 02:56:50,445
Ye yes. The driveway on the north on the screen

3233
02:56:50,445 --> 02:56:54,445
that's showing right now, the one that says paved running

3234
02:56:54,485 --> 02:56:56,005
to the road, that is our driveway.

3235
02:56:56,705 --> 02:57:00,445
And the easements marked that are supposedly covered by

3236
02:57:00,445 --> 02:57:02,045
that easement doc document.

3237
02:57:02,935 --> 02:57:05,965
Those don't have signatures from my wife

3238
02:57:05,985 --> 02:57:08,365
or myself, either of the owners of our property.

3239
02:57:08,625 --> 02:57:09,925
But you were the owners at the time?

3240
02:57:10,505 --> 02:57:12,045
We were the owners of the point of sale.

3241
02:57:12,825 --> 02:57:15,285
How long you been there? We've been there since

3242
02:57:15,285 --> 02:57:17,685
20 20, 20 24.

3243
02:57:20,785 --> 02:57:23,975
Okay. So you're contesting the easement?

3244
02:57:24,635 --> 02:57:29,335
Yes. If I may, so you were not, so you,

3245
02:57:29,435 --> 02:57:30,695
you were not here when we

3246
02:57:30,895 --> 02:57:32,095
previously heard this case, is that

3247
02:57:32,095 --> 02:57:33,095
Correct?

3248
02:57:33,095 --> 02:57:33,655
No, I was not. Okay.

3249
02:57:34,635 --> 02:57:35,775
So This, I had a question

3250
02:57:35,775 --> 02:57:37,455
regarding that, but it would be irrelevant. So thank you.

3251
02:57:38,165 --> 02:57:41,175
This thing that says trail on it is that that's,

3252
02:57:41,235 --> 02:57:43,615
you are telling us that exists now.

3253
02:57:43,995 --> 02:57:46,175
So that was there when we moved in.

3254
02:57:47,835 --> 02:57:50,295
We used it to move some stuff into our house.

3255
02:57:52,285 --> 02:57:54,665
So that currently is still there.

3256
02:57:55,505 --> 02:57:56,985
I think there might be some rocks on it,

3257
02:57:57,125 --> 02:57:59,105
but it does still exist.

3258
02:58:00,405 --> 02:58:03,725
And the easement in question is between E two and E four.

3259
02:58:05,065 --> 02:58:08,965
Is that a safe, basically where the hammer head is kind of

3260
02:58:09,085 --> 02:58:10,245
E there's E two and E four

3261
02:58:10,385 --> 02:58:14,365
and then there's on the top right corner where the front

3262
02:58:14,365 --> 02:58:17,045
of our driveway crosses over.

3263
02:58:17,235 --> 02:58:18,605
Okay. Right there too. Yeah. Oh, okay.

3264
02:58:18,605 --> 02:58:19,605
Everywhere we got it. Thank

3265
02:58:19,605 --> 02:58:20,605
you. Everywhere. Let's get the lines.

3266
02:58:21,345 --> 02:58:24,725
That's beautiful. And it's important to note

3267
02:58:24,725 --> 02:58:27,685
that the power pole that services our house

3268
02:58:28,475 --> 02:58:29,645
also sits right near there.

3269
02:58:29,725 --> 02:58:32,405
I don't know where it falls on that drawing,

3270
02:58:33,905 --> 02:58:38,765
but it sits right next to our driveway on

3271
02:58:38,795 --> 02:58:41,125
that side, on the property line side.

3272
02:58:41,995 --> 02:58:43,845
Owen, you wanna show us where the power pole is?

3273
02:58:44,535 --> 02:58:45,605
Where the power pole.

3274
02:58:48,555 --> 02:58:51,925
Alright, may I ask a question there?

3275
02:58:52,075 --> 02:58:54,805
Sure. Dr. Ms. Owen, what is the, do you know

3276
02:58:54,805 --> 02:58:57,205
what the typical process is for

3277
02:58:57,205 --> 02:58:58,285
how an easement would get recorded?

3278
02:58:58,705 --> 02:59:01,845
One sided, two sided? Well, how would that normally work?

3279
02:59:01,975 --> 02:59:03,725
Would, to me, I would think it's almost just

3280
02:59:03,725 --> 02:59:05,245
partially executed at this time.

3281
02:59:05,725 --> 02:59:07,325
I think it's partially executed at this time.

3282
02:59:07,525 --> 02:59:09,125
I, I'd have to review that.

3283
02:59:11,205 --> 02:59:13,965
I, I'm, I'm not clear on that process to be honest with you.

3284
02:59:17,475 --> 02:59:22,205
Okay. Any questions for 28 Ballard Road?

3285
02:59:22,835 --> 02:59:26,725
From anybody? Mr. Bumba? Mr. Dietzel? All set. Mr.

3286
02:59:27,585 --> 02:59:29,485
Donald, you all set too? I'm good.

3287
02:59:29,915 --> 02:59:30,925
Okay. Lauren, you're all set.

3288
02:59:31,405 --> 02:59:32,645
I, I'm gonna say I don't tonight,

3289
02:59:32,645 --> 02:59:34,925
but I'm not gonna, I don't wanna lie to the applicant.

3290
02:59:35,005 --> 02:59:37,725
I might by the next meeting if that's

3291
02:59:38,635 --> 02:59:39,725
Okay, If that's okay.

3292
02:59:40,315 --> 02:59:41,885
Alright, we're all set for now.

3293
02:59:42,185 --> 02:59:44,485
If you've all set, you just said that's,

3294
02:59:44,485 --> 02:59:46,565
that's your point is it's a contested easement.

3295
02:59:47,185 --> 02:59:48,485
That's, that's my main point. Yes.

3296
02:59:48,745 --> 02:59:53,725
And I, and I So if the easement were erased right,

3297
02:59:53,905 --> 02:59:57,445
or were found not legitimate,

3298
03:00:01,395 --> 03:00:03,925
what does that do to your parcel, relative

3299
03:00:03,945 --> 03:00:05,605
to this application?

3300
03:00:07,715 --> 03:00:11,085
That I'm not sure I, like I said,

3301
03:00:11,085 --> 03:00:13,605
I haven't had any discussions with, with them

3302
03:00:13,665 --> 03:00:15,725
or anything, so I don't, yes.

3303
03:00:16,085 --> 03:00:17,805
I dunno what the plans are or, or

3304
03:00:18,275 --> 03:00:19,275
Yeah.

3305
03:00:19,275 --> 03:00:20,925
So your, your driveway comes in, it's paved,

3306
03:00:21,045 --> 03:00:23,485
I guess there's a hammerhead there, right?

3307
03:00:23,905 --> 03:00:24,965
Yes. Yeah. Okay.

3308
03:00:25,905 --> 03:00:27,805
And that hammerhead goes into

3309
03:00:27,805 --> 03:00:29,685
where the trail starts at E four?

3310
03:00:30,025 --> 03:00:33,885
Yes. Okay, got it. Okay. I think I'm good for now. So if I

3311
03:00:35,015 --> 03:00:36,045
Ahead speak it in,

3312
03:00:36,245 --> 03:00:37,485
'cause I remember this from the last meeting,

3313
03:00:37,485 --> 03:00:41,605
which is why I asked if he was the owner at the time.

3314
03:00:42,365 --> 03:00:43,925
I believe, and we'll wait when

3315
03:00:43,925 --> 03:00:45,445
the, sorry the applicant's come back up.

3316
03:00:45,445 --> 03:00:46,565
They can correct me if I'm wrong at all,

3317
03:00:46,585 --> 03:00:50,485
but I believe they said that the easement was put in

3318
03:00:50,665 --> 03:00:52,325
by the seller, which I believe was Cooper.

3319
03:00:53,145 --> 03:00:56,405
And remembering the last meeting to Mrs.

3320
03:00:56,565 --> 03:00:59,605
Vers point of why, you know, the Popsicle headache began

3321
03:00:59,605 --> 03:01:00,845
to exist on the frontage.

3322
03:01:01,515 --> 03:01:05,805
They were originally giving a chunk of land to this property

3323
03:01:06,235 --> 03:01:08,085
that was going to then eliminate the

3324
03:01:08,285 --> 03:01:09,405
cul-de-sac, if you remember that.

3325
03:01:09,665 --> 03:01:14,085
And the other, that the owners of lot 1 0 3 24

3326
03:01:14,915 --> 03:01:16,125
weren't aware of that either.

3327
03:01:16,825 --> 03:01:18,845
And all of a sudden it was gonna end up impacting their

3328
03:01:18,845 --> 03:01:22,165
taxes because they were now acquiring more size.

3329
03:01:22,425 --> 03:01:25,405
Mm. Ultimately the applicant then went back

3330
03:01:26,505 --> 03:01:28,565
and if I remember right,

3331
03:01:31,345 --> 03:01:32,365
we stated a preference.

3332
03:01:32,445 --> 03:01:33,885
I think I stated a preference actually,

3333
03:01:34,585 --> 03:01:36,845
but I'd prefer the cul-de-sac to remain.

3334
03:01:37,465 --> 03:01:39,925
And the council for the Coopers at the time noted

3335
03:01:39,925 --> 03:01:41,325
that they were happy to do that

3336
03:01:41,325 --> 03:01:43,245
because that's what would increase their frontage

3337
03:01:43,245 --> 03:01:44,285
to 108 feet.

3338
03:01:45,265 --> 03:01:46,485
So I guess that's where I'm going with that.

3339
03:01:46,545 --> 03:01:48,125
And I'm, I'm sure it's the right way,

3340
03:01:48,145 --> 03:01:52,765
but there is a history from The previous property owners

3341
03:01:52,945 --> 03:01:55,925
of making a move without necessarily consulting.

3342
03:01:55,925 --> 03:01:57,205
I don't know how that goes into anything,

3343
03:01:57,585 --> 03:02:00,405
but I did just wanna share that as it

3344
03:02:00,995 --> 03:02:02,085
continued to weigh on me.

3345
03:02:02,605 --> 03:02:04,925
My, my understanding is that that's been fairly typical

3346
03:02:05,035 --> 03:02:08,285
that there, the consultations didn't,

3347
03:02:08,355 --> 03:02:11,325
weren't very often happening or were contentious at best.

3348
03:02:11,555 --> 03:02:15,125
Yeah. And I, and I just state that again, just to, not

3349
03:02:15,225 --> 03:02:16,925
to go either way with the current applicants,

3350
03:02:16,925 --> 03:02:19,365
but it did seem like everybody's kind of been in a bit

3351
03:02:19,365 --> 03:02:20,925
of a headache from the prior owners.

3352
03:02:21,265 --> 03:02:22,265
Yes.

3353
03:02:23,115 --> 03:02:24,765
Okay. Very good. Thank you. Thank

3354
03:02:24,765 --> 03:02:25,765
You.

3355
03:02:26,075 --> 03:02:28,085
Next up, opposition.

3356
03:02:42,125 --> 03:02:43,155
Hello? Hello,

3357
03:02:43,815 --> 03:02:44,815
I'm Laurie fao.

3358
03:02:44,835 --> 03:02:47,275
I am the owner at 26 Ballard Road.

3359
03:02:47,275 --> 03:02:49,435
And this just feels like a little deja vu

3360
03:02:49,675 --> 03:02:51,035
'cause we've been here before.

3361
03:02:53,435 --> 03:02:54,955
I don't know what I can say that hasn't

3362
03:02:54,955 --> 03:02:56,035
already kind of been said.

3363
03:02:57,125 --> 03:02:59,235
We've talked about this at length, about

3364
03:02:59,535 --> 03:03:02,395
how this was denied at 2003.

3365
03:03:03,295 --> 03:03:06,995
The land has been untouched for over 40 years at this point.

3366
03:03:09,065 --> 03:03:11,915
What was deemed a utility road

3367
03:03:11,915 --> 03:03:14,315
or a paper road has never been used as such.

3368
03:03:14,405 --> 03:03:15,595
Never been used as a road.

3369
03:03:16,195 --> 03:03:19,755
Vehicles have never been gone up that pathway before.

3370
03:03:20,475 --> 03:03:22,995
There was actually a construction vehicle there recently

3371
03:03:22,995 --> 03:03:26,315
while they were surveying that got stuck, that had

3372
03:03:26,315 --> 03:03:28,155
to be moved out.

3373
03:03:29,935 --> 03:03:32,555
It is a kind of a dangerous narrow

3374
03:03:33,145 --> 03:03:35,115
pathway up to that property.

3375
03:03:35,615 --> 03:03:38,795
So whatever you say about the frontage in front might be a

3376
03:03:38,795 --> 03:03:42,435
little bit wider, but the driveway is way more narrow,

3377
03:03:43,125 --> 03:03:44,995
maybe like 30 to 35 feet.

3378
03:03:45,415 --> 03:03:48,875
So to Janet's point about emergency vehicles going up,

3379
03:03:48,985 --> 03:03:50,195
they wouldn't be able to make it

3380
03:03:51,855 --> 03:03:56,355
unless you start encroaching on our properties at 26 and 28.

3381
03:03:57,815 --> 03:04:00,805
Which if you see some of the markers that were placed

3382
03:04:03,265 --> 03:04:07,125
for surveying, there's trees that cut through those markers.

3383
03:04:07,185 --> 03:04:10,925
So that fall onto my property, which I, I mean for me,

3384
03:04:10,965 --> 03:04:12,205
I wouldn't want those cut down.

3385
03:04:12,745 --> 03:04:13,925
And you would need that

3386
03:04:15,265 --> 03:04:17,285
to have enough space for the driveway.

3387
03:04:19,005 --> 03:04:21,765
I mean, trees for privacy is all nice,

3388
03:04:22,025 --> 03:04:23,845
but again, I have a three-year-old

3389
03:04:23,865 --> 03:04:26,725
and a dog that are in that, in that backyard.

3390
03:04:27,345 --> 03:04:31,805
And having a driveway cut through the whole entirety

3391
03:04:31,805 --> 03:04:35,925
of my backyard essentially causes safety concerns for me.

3392
03:04:37,555 --> 03:04:40,125
There's also the issue of drainage.

3393
03:04:40,885 --> 03:04:42,285
'cause again, that property is up higher.

3394
03:04:42,745 --> 03:04:44,165
If there is any kind of flooding,

3395
03:04:44,235 --> 03:04:45,525
it's gonna go right into my

3396
03:04:46,655 --> 03:04:47,695
basement, which will cause damage.

3397
03:04:48,355 --> 03:04:52,615
So you can talk about, it's not gonna change property value.

3398
03:04:52,875 --> 03:04:54,135
You can't really determine that.

3399
03:04:54,165 --> 03:04:55,335
It's all a matter of opinion

3400
03:04:55,335 --> 03:04:57,335
because you don't know what's gonna happen in the next two

3401
03:04:57,335 --> 03:04:59,775
years after the property has been built.

3402
03:05:00,785 --> 03:05:04,095
Right. It could cause damage to the surrounding

3403
03:05:04,945 --> 03:05:06,575
properties, the surrounding houses.

3404
03:05:07,495 --> 03:05:10,135
I mean, do they have enough space in the back? Absolutely.

3405
03:05:10,135 --> 03:05:11,415
That's never been the question.

3406
03:05:11,915 --> 03:05:14,695
The question is on the

3407
03:05:15,335 --> 03:05:18,055
proposed driveway not being big enough

3408
03:05:18,755 --> 03:05:21,495
and encroaching on our property.

3409
03:05:21,635 --> 03:05:25,495
My, my house is only 20 feet away from that path.

3410
03:05:27,525 --> 03:05:29,695
Well, and that was understood I think the first time

3411
03:05:29,695 --> 03:05:30,735
that we heard this.

3412
03:05:30,735 --> 03:05:35,175
Correct. And I think that went to why we were some

3413
03:05:35,175 --> 03:05:39,375
of the concerns of the board relative to your privacy.

3414
03:05:39,465 --> 03:05:42,855
Right? I mean they're, they're looking at a diminuation

3415
03:05:42,855 --> 03:05:43,855
of property value

3416
03:05:43,955 --> 03:05:48,175
or a, a broker survey in regards to how it

3417
03:05:48,845 --> 03:05:52,175
addresses the overall property values around.

3418
03:05:52,395 --> 03:05:57,335
But we also understood that, that it diminishes some of your

3419
03:05:58,015 --> 03:05:59,975
privacy that you've been accustomed to.

3420
03:06:01,165 --> 03:06:03,735
However, in one of these points, you know,

3421
03:06:03,735 --> 03:06:06,495
you were looking at your yours

3422
03:06:06,595 --> 03:06:09,935
and your prior abutter

3423
03:06:10,465 --> 03:06:14,055
expressing the issue about emergency vehicles

3424
03:06:14,615 --> 03:06:17,175
and the town design

3425
03:06:18,495 --> 03:06:19,975
criteria would establish that.

3426
03:06:20,155 --> 03:06:21,855
Is it a hundred or 150 feet?

3427
03:06:22,045 --> 03:06:25,255
Yeah, over 150 feet required to be 14 feet wide.

3428
03:06:25,275 --> 03:06:26,735
And they're required to have a turnaround

3429
03:06:27,315 --> 03:06:28,935
or a hammerhead at the end of the driveway,

3430
03:06:28,935 --> 03:06:30,215
Two feet on each side of the,

3431
03:06:30,235 --> 03:06:32,175
of the stabilized ground grade.

3432
03:06:33,685 --> 03:06:35,815
More than that, preferably for drainage. So

3433
03:06:36,405 --> 03:06:38,095
Yeah, no, I mean as far as clearance

3434
03:06:38,095 --> 03:06:39,975
beyond the driveway, is it over a hundred?

3435
03:06:40,035 --> 03:06:42,215
Is 12 feet or 14 feet?

3436
03:06:42,285 --> 03:06:44,615
Over 150 is, is 14 feet.

3437
03:06:44,835 --> 03:06:46,935
Got it. With two feet on each side of that.

3438
03:06:46,995 --> 03:06:49,135
So that's an eighteen's correct foot swath and,

3439
03:06:49,135 --> 03:06:52,495
and the improvements require DOT grade

3440
03:06:53,595 --> 03:06:56,125
gravel 12 inches down, that kind of thing.

3441
03:06:56,185 --> 03:06:59,805
So that criteria is not within this board's purview,

3442
03:06:59,905 --> 03:07:02,645
but it is to address that concern

3443
03:07:02,825 --> 03:07:06,405
and narrow your, your argument down to, you know,

3444
03:07:06,405 --> 03:07:07,405
the significant points.

3445
03:07:07,465 --> 03:07:09,405
And I'm not diminishing any of them. Hmm.

3446
03:07:10,025 --> 03:07:14,405
How, how deep is your lot? Is it 351 feet?

3447
03:07:14,925 --> 03:07:16,845
I don't know offhand how deep the lot is.

3448
03:07:17,355 --> 03:07:20,485
It's, I think it's something like the whole lot is

3449
03:07:20,485 --> 03:07:22,325
of 1.3 acres or something like that.

3450
03:07:22,345 --> 03:07:25,085
1.23 acres, something like that. 3 51

3451
03:07:25,085 --> 03:07:26,485
0.73.

3452
03:07:26,485 --> 03:07:28,765
Alright. So the, the buffer trees

3453
03:07:28,795 --> 03:07:32,805
that are shown on the screen over my head there, is

3454
03:07:32,805 --> 03:07:36,725
that about where your deck would be in line with

3455
03:07:37,905 --> 03:07:39,605
See The buffer trees up over my

3456
03:07:39,765 --> 03:07:40,765
Shoulder?

3457
03:07:40,765 --> 03:07:41,845
No, it actually is would be a little further back.

3458
03:07:42,085 --> 03:07:45,765
I see the, the, maybe the last one on there. Yeah. Okay.

3459
03:07:45,765 --> 03:07:47,965
No, maybe like the last tree on there is kind of

3460
03:07:47,965 --> 03:07:49,165
where it starts.

3461
03:07:49,225 --> 03:07:51,965
So the whole back of that is missing.

3462
03:07:52,705 --> 03:07:55,005
How far back from the road edge is your house?

3463
03:07:55,515 --> 03:07:57,645
From the, the road edge? Yeah. Or is that,

3464
03:07:59,145 --> 03:08:00,525
I'm sorry, what Do, what do you mean?

3465
03:08:01,105 --> 03:08:03,245
How far back from the road edge is your

3466
03:08:03,245 --> 03:08:04,245
House?

3467
03:08:04,245 --> 03:08:04,445
Oh, the road edge. I didn't, sorry,

3468
03:08:04,445 --> 03:08:05,285
I didn't understand what you said.

3469
03:08:07,085 --> 03:08:08,765
I don't, honestly, I don't know offhand.

3470
03:08:08,765 --> 03:08:11,965
There's a good amount like 40,

3471
03:08:13,055 --> 03:08:14,565
50 feet I'd say.

3472
03:08:14,905 --> 03:08:17,965
So if you are, if your house is, let's just be generous

3473
03:08:18,105 --> 03:08:20,365
and say it's 40 feet wide, you know, the,

3474
03:08:20,585 --> 03:08:22,045
the from the road edge to the back

3475
03:08:22,045 --> 03:08:23,605
of your home is a hundred feet.

3476
03:08:24,235 --> 03:08:27,685
That gives you 250 feet

3477
03:08:28,705 --> 03:08:32,205
of grade behind you to the

3478
03:08:33,475 --> 03:08:34,645
development line

3479
03:08:34,645 --> 03:08:39,245
that the applicant's providing anything else.

3480
03:08:40,395 --> 03:08:42,445
Also, as you know,

3481
03:08:42,445 --> 03:08:44,445
the property was never intended to be built on.

3482
03:08:44,845 --> 03:08:47,365
It was never intended for residential use.

3483
03:08:47,665 --> 03:08:51,445
It was supposed to be a water source. Right.

3484
03:08:51,985 --> 03:08:55,515
And when we all purchased the property, it was told

3485
03:08:55,515 --> 03:08:57,195
that nothing would ever be built back there

3486
03:08:57,945 --> 03:09:00,035
because it was supposed to be a well source,

3487
03:09:00,055 --> 03:09:01,875
it was a water source and oh yeah, hey,

3488
03:09:01,875 --> 03:09:03,995
there's not enough water there to supply the neighborhood,

3489
03:09:04,415 --> 03:09:06,035
but nothing would be built on there

3490
03:09:06,035 --> 03:09:07,315
because there's a water easement.

3491
03:09:09,255 --> 03:09:11,595
So the fact that this has come up a couple times

3492
03:09:11,735 --> 03:09:14,955
and been denied was never intended to be there.

3493
03:09:15,105 --> 03:09:19,435
Everybody who purchased houses there, it would never

3494
03:09:20,215 --> 03:09:22,195
saw that like a house would be built back there.

3495
03:09:22,875 --> 03:09:26,955
I think it kind of diminishes the overall neighborhood

3496
03:09:26,955 --> 03:09:30,355
because there was never an intent from the development back

3497
03:09:30,355 --> 03:09:34,395
in the eighties that this would ever have a house on it. So

3498
03:09:35,025 --> 03:09:38,035
Yeah, the, the board will be in a hard place to,

3499
03:09:38,505 --> 03:09:41,035
even though the technicalities

3500
03:09:41,175 --> 03:09:43,355
of why this has come back to us Mm.

3501
03:09:44,215 --> 03:09:47,675
For statute reasons that occurred five years ago

3502
03:09:48,975 --> 03:09:51,835
and knowing the path that this has gone in already

3503
03:09:52,535 --> 03:09:53,805
all the way to Supreme Court.

3504
03:09:55,265 --> 03:09:57,205
You know, there's still some vetting to do here,

3505
03:09:57,305 --> 03:10:00,885
but just understand that the, that where this path has gone

3506
03:10:00,885 --> 03:10:04,725
with this parcel prior makes it tougher for this board

3507
03:10:05,305 --> 03:10:07,445
to render an opposing decision.

3508
03:10:07,995 --> 03:10:09,165
Well if they had a variant

3509
03:10:09,185 --> 03:10:10,925
to build on it, why wasn't it built on?

3510
03:10:10,925 --> 03:10:12,805
Why was it sold after it expired?

3511
03:10:13,595 --> 03:10:16,125
What is your impression of the former owners?

3512
03:10:18,675 --> 03:10:21,085
That is a loaded question, sir. We just

3513
03:10:21,325 --> 03:10:22,325
Document the laugh of record.

3514
03:10:22,485 --> 03:10:24,005
I know everybody behind me is laughing.

3515
03:10:24,005 --> 03:10:26,565
They, they understand. I, I think, think they,

3516
03:10:26,565 --> 03:10:29,805
without getting my personal opinion, it was sold

3517
03:10:30,195 --> 03:10:33,405
with ill intent and they did not disclose the fact

3518
03:10:34,075 --> 03:10:35,885
that they were having issues building on it.

3519
03:10:36,305 --> 03:10:37,525
And it should never have been sold

3520
03:10:37,785 --> 03:10:38,965
as a residential property.

3521
03:10:39,325 --> 03:10:41,165
I understand. Because otherwise they would've built on it.

3522
03:10:41,165 --> 03:10:44,045
They were threatening us to tear down the trees

3523
03:10:44,065 --> 03:10:45,645
and build a house with, they had two

3524
03:10:45,645 --> 03:10:46,765
years to do it, why didn't they do it?

3525
03:10:47,925 --> 03:10:50,325
I understand. Yeah. Alright. Is that it?

3526
03:10:50,905 --> 03:10:53,725
Yep. That's it for me. Any questions for Ms. Fao?

3527
03:10:53,905 --> 03:10:56,125
No, thank you Ms. Fazio. All set? Mr. Dietzel? All set.

3528
03:10:56,125 --> 03:10:57,885
Thank you. Very good. Thank you. Somebody else?

3529
03:11:00,025 --> 03:11:01,165
We have four Minutes. Yeah.

3530
03:11:01,165 --> 03:11:02,525
This might be our last one. Three minutes.

3531
03:11:03,035 --> 03:11:03,325
Yeah.

3532
03:11:08,225 --> 03:11:11,245
Hi, my name is Raymond Veer. I live at 17 Ballard.

3533
03:11:11,745 --> 03:11:15,925
And my problem with this whole thing is right now,

3534
03:11:16,305 --> 03:11:19,925
if you look at the street at 18 Ballard, the road bends

3535
03:11:19,925 --> 03:11:21,285
and comes down to the cleaving.

3536
03:11:21,545 --> 03:11:24,365
So when it rains real hot, the water comes down

3537
03:11:25,545 --> 03:11:27,005
the road is crowned

3538
03:11:27,985 --> 03:11:32,205
and also the ball circle, that is the cl

3539
03:11:32,395 --> 03:11:34,205
that feeds onto that road that comes over.

3540
03:11:34,745 --> 03:11:39,565
And also at 28, his deer driveway there is on a big deity

3541
03:11:39,655 --> 03:11:41,845
where the water comes down, hits the ball circle,

3542
03:11:42,075 --> 03:11:44,485
gets Ballad road, comes over to my property.

3543
03:11:45,025 --> 03:11:48,525
And also if that property, they allow that property

3544
03:11:48,555 --> 03:11:50,485
through a driveway, that's gonna be a

3545
03:11:50,645 --> 03:11:51,685
driveway on an angle too.

3546
03:11:51,945 --> 03:11:55,325
So that's more water coming down. As Ms.

3547
03:11:55,475 --> 03:11:59,725
Burr said, you know, 17, the water, the people

3548
03:11:59,745 --> 03:12:01,845
before me put from between the road

3549
03:12:01,845 --> 03:12:04,565
and my property, put a piece of plastic down

3550
03:12:04,585 --> 03:12:06,045
and put a bunch of gravel on it.

3551
03:12:06,825 --> 03:12:10,085
And when a rain's real hot, that gravel moves.

3552
03:12:10,155 --> 03:12:12,805
There's so much water coming down that that gravel moves.

3553
03:12:12,865 --> 03:12:14,645
And my driveway is on a dec ity.

3554
03:12:14,905 --> 03:12:16,605
And even after these last couple of storms,

3555
03:12:16,605 --> 03:12:17,685
I've got puddles in my garage.

3556
03:12:19,105 --> 03:12:20,565
So that's my problem with the water.

3557
03:12:20,945 --> 03:12:22,805
And you're at 17? Yes.

3558
03:12:23,225 --> 03:12:25,645
And I'm afraid of my property gonna be flooded out

3559
03:12:26,285 --> 03:12:28,205
'cause it gets, if they didn't put some of

3560
03:12:28,205 --> 03:12:30,445
that stone up there that it's kinda holding it back,

3561
03:12:30,445 --> 03:12:32,605
but it's still getting down into my garage. But,

3562
03:12:32,665 --> 03:12:35,485
But isn't that to the road design, not relative

3563
03:12:35,485 --> 03:12:37,445
to this parcel that's being requested?

3564
03:12:37,945 --> 03:12:40,285
No. 'cause all that wa if they put the driveway in,

3565
03:12:40,315 --> 03:12:41,925
it's gonna be on another deity

3566
03:12:41,925 --> 03:12:44,045
and I've got water coming from other three other sources.

3567
03:12:44,785 --> 03:12:45,845
All that water's coming down

3568
03:12:45,845 --> 03:12:48,685
and it's coming across the road into my property. So

3569
03:12:48,685 --> 03:12:51,285
You're, is it safe to assume you're feeling as if

3570
03:12:51,465 --> 03:12:53,405
as it stands today, it's a hazard,

3571
03:12:53,745 --> 03:12:57,845
but any construction to it would increase the hazard?

3572
03:12:58,185 --> 03:13:00,285
Yes. I mean, my property's gonna get flooded

3573
03:13:00,285 --> 03:13:02,365
and I, I don't wanna have to buy flood insurance.

3574
03:13:02,365 --> 03:13:03,485
That's damn expensive.

3575
03:13:04,825 --> 03:13:06,485
And then what kind of damage it's gonna do?

3576
03:13:07,005 --> 03:13:08,885
I mean, it's coming down my driving

3577
03:13:09,025 --> 03:13:10,245
now and they have more water.

3578
03:13:10,245 --> 03:13:11,805
It's gonna come across the front of my lawn

3579
03:13:12,105 --> 03:13:14,125
and my, my land is on an angle too,

3580
03:13:14,125 --> 03:13:16,205
so it's gonna head towards my, my garage again.

3581
03:13:16,795 --> 03:13:20,525
Alright, so you're veu, right? Excuse me? Your veu? Yes.

3582
03:13:20,715 --> 03:13:23,645
Okay. For some reason I thought I heard your name was ver

3583
03:13:23,645 --> 03:13:26,165
and I thought Alan's brother lived across the street.

3584
03:13:26,945 --> 03:13:30,325
No, no, I've been up here before When? In 21.

3585
03:13:30,795 --> 03:13:31,965
Okay. So,

3586
03:13:32,115 --> 03:13:33,605
Alright. Any, anything else?

3587
03:13:34,275 --> 03:13:37,485
Nope. That's my, that's what my, my problem is the water

3588
03:13:37,585 --> 03:13:39,725
and it water and you see the stones we've been having

3589
03:13:39,725 --> 03:13:41,325
lately and even last year.

3590
03:13:41,965 --> 03:13:44,765
Yeah. A lot of water and I've had water in my

3591
03:13:44,765 --> 03:13:46,605
garage all times. Alright,

3592
03:13:46,955 --> 03:13:47,955
Very good.

3593
03:13:47,955 --> 03:13:51,165
Thank you. Thank Gimme an extension.

3594
03:13:51,605 --> 03:13:52,885
15 minutes please. I'll

3595
03:13:52,885 --> 03:13:54,885
Make an extension to 10 32nd.

3596
03:13:55,545 --> 03:14:00,285
All in favor? Aye. Aye. Any opposed? You in favor?

3597
03:14:01,195 --> 03:14:04,005
Yeah. Aye, she's opposed. You all set? Yep, we're all set.

3598
03:14:04,005 --> 03:14:05,725
Thank you Mr. Eu. Anybody else?

3599
03:14:10,215 --> 03:14:13,365
We're only gonna let you go about another 10 minutes.

3600
03:14:13,835 --> 03:14:15,245
Very brief. Well,

3601
03:14:15,245 --> 03:14:17,845
it's not just you that's been said tonight.

3602
03:14:17,875 --> 03:14:20,125
Hold on. It's not just you, it's, I have

3603
03:14:20,125 --> 03:14:21,445
to get other people and Yes.

3604
03:14:21,445 --> 03:14:23,725
So we have 10 minutes. I understand. For testimony. Okay.

3605
03:14:23,985 --> 03:14:27,725
My name is Annette Hyde. Okay. I live on 24 Ballard Road.

3606
03:14:27,995 --> 03:14:30,445
Okay. I've been there since 1995

3607
03:14:31,065 --> 03:14:33,605
and I too am opposed to the building

3608
03:14:34,345 --> 03:14:36,325
of the developed home.

3609
03:14:37,355 --> 03:14:41,685
Mentioned in particular, my neighbor has a little girl

3610
03:14:42,545 --> 03:14:44,205
and she's in her backyard playing.

3611
03:14:44,465 --> 03:14:45,885
And I have three grandchildren

3612
03:14:46,465 --> 03:14:48,285
who will play there quite often

3613
03:14:48,545 --> 03:14:51,325
and I'm very concerned about vehicles,

3614
03:14:52,505 --> 03:14:54,165
trucks, et cetera.

3615
03:14:54,225 --> 03:14:56,445
So without much ado, I'm just here

3616
03:14:56,825 --> 03:15:00,005
to support my neighbors and stating that. Alright.

3617
03:15:00,005 --> 03:15:02,365
But you're north of, I'd like to see that you're north of

3618
03:15:02,365 --> 03:15:05,125
that oval closer towards Hampstead Road.

3619
03:15:05,865 --> 03:15:08,725
No, I'm south. South. You're 24. 24?

3620
03:15:09,105 --> 03:15:12,445
Yes. Oh, I see. Got it. Okay. Okay. Very good.

3621
03:15:12,445 --> 03:15:13,445
Thank you.

3622
03:15:14,305 --> 03:15:17,125
I'm at Hyde. Okay. Anybody else?

3623
03:15:28,305 --> 03:15:28,805
Hi. Hi.

3624
03:15:29,275 --> 03:15:30,805
Good evening. We'll be quick. Okay.

3625
03:15:31,345 --> 03:15:34,445
Lauren Ton. Kevin Ton. We're at three Briar.

3626
03:15:34,455 --> 03:15:35,455
We're actually

3627
03:15:36,195 --> 03:15:37,325
Southwest on the bottom.

3628
03:15:37,775 --> 03:15:40,085
We're on the backside. Very, very small amount

3629
03:15:40,085 --> 03:15:41,125
that we abut their property.

3630
03:15:41,555 --> 03:15:45,685
Okay. We, we aren't personally impacted by this.

3631
03:15:45,765 --> 03:15:47,605
I don't believe too much on I have,

3632
03:15:48,205 --> 03:15:50,205
I have questions actually before I deem that.

3633
03:15:51,145 --> 03:15:52,405
So we haven't seen this before.

3634
03:15:52,585 --> 03:15:55,445
We saw the other map that you had without the house.

3635
03:15:56,065 --> 03:15:57,205
If this goes forward

3636
03:15:57,505 --> 03:16:02,405
and this is their proposed layout, are they able

3637
03:16:02,405 --> 03:16:05,405
to then change it and move the house or

3638
03:16:06,185 --> 03:16:07,845
As long as they're within the setback

3639
03:16:07,845 --> 03:16:09,125
requirements, they would be

3640
03:16:09,125 --> 03:16:10,925
Able to it so they can move it back as far as they want

3641
03:16:11,705 --> 03:16:14,845
Within, they'd still have to keep a specific setback.

3642
03:16:15,805 --> 03:16:17,125
I don't wanna misquote it now,

3643
03:16:17,225 --> 03:16:19,045
but they wouldn't have complete free reign.

3644
03:16:19,045 --> 03:16:21,045
There still would be restrictions

3645
03:16:21,065 --> 03:16:24,085
for each property line that they would have to meet.

3646
03:16:24,955 --> 03:16:26,365
There's also a town forest.

3647
03:16:26,395 --> 03:16:28,325
Does that impact that at all? That's a,

3648
03:16:28,505 --> 03:16:29,725
It would be a property line. Okay.

3649
03:16:29,995 --> 03:16:33,085
What is that rule? What is,

3650
03:16:33,405 --> 03:16:34,605
I guess so, so like right there

3651
03:16:34,795 --> 03:16:36,365
that they put a horse right there for the 26th.

3652
03:16:36,835 --> 03:16:40,245
It's only 54 feet, so can't be that big then I guess.

3653
03:16:41,715 --> 03:16:43,565
Well I'm, I'm gonna guess here,

3654
03:16:43,625 --> 03:16:46,525
but the expense of putting in the driveway is not one

3655
03:16:46,525 --> 03:16:48,325
that is going to suggest they want

3656
03:16:48,325 --> 03:16:50,165
to push their house deeper into the forest.

3657
03:16:50,715 --> 03:16:52,925
Okay. That was one of my main questions.

3658
03:16:54,305 --> 03:16:55,605
You can keep talking now. Yeah,

3659
03:16:55,605 --> 03:16:58,845
Mine was more just the, the neighborhood itself.

3660
03:16:58,995 --> 03:17:03,325
Just if you look, if you expand more on Ballard,

3661
03:17:03,865 --> 03:17:07,005
all the property lines are north of that.

3662
03:17:07,005 --> 03:17:08,325
There's like 10 to 12 property lines

3663
03:17:08,325 --> 03:17:09,525
that are pretty much identical.

3664
03:17:09,525 --> 03:17:12,205
They're all narrow and long properties.

3665
03:17:13,155 --> 03:17:15,245
There's neighbors to the sides, very pretty close

3666
03:17:15,245 --> 03:17:16,885
to the sides of you, but there's nobody behind you.

3667
03:17:17,545 --> 03:17:19,005
So, and they're pretty much all identical.

3668
03:17:19,005 --> 03:17:20,325
This would be a very unique property.

3669
03:17:22,265 --> 03:17:24,525
The the three or four properties that are in front

3670
03:17:24,525 --> 03:17:25,885
of us now are impacted by that.

3671
03:17:26,045 --> 03:17:27,525
'cause now theirs are different than the rest

3672
03:17:27,525 --> 03:17:29,765
of the properties along that road.

3673
03:17:30,425 --> 03:17:32,045
So it kind of changes the structure

3674
03:17:32,045 --> 03:17:34,045
of the neighborhood a little bit for those people.

3675
03:17:34,105 --> 03:17:35,845
And it's different from the rest of the properties,

3676
03:17:36,725 --> 03:17:38,565
I guess in that, if we're talking about property value,

3677
03:17:38,905 --> 03:17:40,925
our property value, I don't see

3678
03:17:40,925 --> 03:17:43,285
how this would increase our property value in

3679
03:17:43,305 --> 03:17:44,405
any way, shape or form.

3680
03:17:45,145 --> 03:17:47,325
Our property is unique

3681
03:17:48,415 --> 03:17:50,485
where we are set back in the woods

3682
03:17:50,785 --> 03:17:53,325
and privacy is one of our number one benefits.

3683
03:17:53,325 --> 03:17:56,205
There's, we can't see another house from our house

3684
03:17:57,905 --> 03:18:01,605
and this would potentially impact that.

3685
03:18:01,735 --> 03:18:04,085
We're not really sure based on the layout.

3686
03:18:04,265 --> 03:18:07,085
And then I guess the property value of the abutters

3687
03:18:07,555 --> 03:18:11,085
that all have very legitimate concerns would definitely

3688
03:18:11,145 --> 03:18:12,285
be diminished.

3689
03:18:12,575 --> 03:18:15,765
Maybe the general overall value of the houses

3690
03:18:15,985 --> 03:18:19,285
and the neighborhood, because a nice house is put in would

3691
03:18:19,285 --> 03:18:21,965
be increased, but the people directly touching would be

3692
03:18:21,965 --> 03:18:24,325
lower because no one wants to move into a house

3693
03:18:24,325 --> 03:18:25,605
with a house in their backyard.

3694
03:18:26,795 --> 03:18:31,045
Well, I, my thinking by the way is that this is 250 feet,

3695
03:18:31,045 --> 03:18:32,245
300 feet away.

3696
03:18:33,045 --> 03:18:35,045
I hope so. But nervous.

3697
03:18:35,045 --> 03:18:38,045
So I, so I'm not sure how that end ends up impacting this.

3698
03:18:38,685 --> 03:18:39,965
I hope so. But you said

3699
03:18:39,965 --> 03:18:41,965
that they could potentially move it back

3700
03:18:42,025 --> 03:18:43,045
so then who knows how

3701
03:18:43,045 --> 03:18:44,045
Close it's No, I didn't, I said

3702
03:18:44,045 --> 03:18:45,285
that it's not likely they're,

3703
03:18:45,385 --> 03:18:47,570
I'm guessing they're gonna push it back further

3704
03:18:47,570 --> 03:18:49,605
because of the cost of putting in the driveway.

3705
03:18:49,845 --> 03:18:52,445
I, I said that it could move within the requirements

3706
03:18:52,445 --> 03:18:53,445
of setback that was

3707
03:18:53,445 --> 03:18:54,645
Made ly because the setbacks,

3708
03:18:55,245 --> 03:18:57,365
I guess one thing that people talked about previously

3709
03:18:57,365 --> 03:19:01,365
that I am not sure of with water, in terms

3710
03:19:01,365 --> 03:19:03,805
of water in the well, is this gonna be on a well?

3711
03:19:04,065 --> 03:19:07,165
And they said something about drilling the

3712
03:19:07,165 --> 03:19:08,245
well and it running dry.

3713
03:19:08,385 --> 03:19:10,965
We are on a well and we can't get on town water

3714
03:19:10,965 --> 03:19:12,405
because of how far back we are.

3715
03:19:13,025 --> 03:19:14,725
So that would be a potential impact

3716
03:19:14,745 --> 03:19:17,285
to us if they're both tapping into the

3717
03:19:17,285 --> 03:19:19,685
same, I forget what it's called.

3718
03:19:20,425 --> 03:19:22,805
Excuse me, Mr. Chair. Yes sir. If we could ensure

3719
03:19:22,805 --> 03:19:24,125
Just some, a little bit closer

3720
03:19:24,125 --> 03:19:25,445
proximity to the microphone.

3721
03:19:25,845 --> 03:19:27,245
We're getting a little bit of feedback

3722
03:19:27,245 --> 03:19:28,245
On.

3723
03:19:28,245 --> 03:19:28,545
Got it. Okay.

3724
03:19:29,395 --> 03:19:31,805
What was, what came through in the application is

3725
03:19:31,805 --> 03:19:33,645
that the property will be serviced by a private well

3726
03:19:33,825 --> 03:19:35,405
and an onsite septic system.

3727
03:19:36,075 --> 03:19:37,485
Okay. As far anything else? I don't,

3728
03:19:37,945 --> 03:19:40,085
So if the water's the same source, I guess

3729
03:19:40,085 --> 03:19:42,925
that could potentially impact us if our wells running dry.

3730
03:19:44,505 --> 03:19:46,995
Yep. There's always that chance.

3731
03:19:47,735 --> 03:19:51,355
Not likely, but there's a chance. Anything else? Nope.

3732
03:19:52,255 --> 03:19:55,115
Any questions for these folks? No, thank you. All right,

3733
03:19:55,655 --> 03:19:56,655
You guys are okay.

3734
03:19:56,655 --> 03:19:58,955
Thank you. So quick. Get before the 10 30. Alright, thank

3735
03:19:58,955 --> 03:19:59,955
You.

3736
03:19:59,955 --> 03:20:01,595
Everybody else? All set in opposition?

3737
03:20:02,785 --> 03:20:04,635
Okay, gentlemen, why don't you,

3738
03:20:05,495 --> 03:20:06,755
Can we get a copy of this?

3739
03:20:08,995 --> 03:20:12,395
I su I suspect so. Okay, thank you.

3740
03:20:14,215 --> 03:20:16,355
So gentlemen, we're not gonna get through all

3741
03:20:16,355 --> 03:20:17,435
of this for you tonight.

3742
03:20:18,655 --> 03:20:21,715
You want to come back and start your rebuttal then?

3743
03:20:21,975 --> 03:20:24,915
Or do you want to try and dig into it now?

3744
03:20:24,995 --> 03:20:26,795
I, we, we can give you about four minutes.

3745
03:20:27,195 --> 03:20:29,115
I, I'll take the four minutes if it's offered.

3746
03:20:29,545 --> 03:20:32,195
Only because these items are now fresh in everybody's mind.

3747
03:20:32,195 --> 03:20:34,675
Okay. Including mine. I'm older than I look

3748
03:20:34,675 --> 03:20:38,595
and I may not remember in two weeks the, a lot

3749
03:20:38,595 --> 03:20:41,635
of comments about the easement to benefit the property

3750
03:20:41,695 --> 03:20:45,115
to the north, which I believe is 26 Ballard.

3751
03:20:46,545 --> 03:20:48,555
I've never spoken to the seller about this.

3752
03:20:48,795 --> 03:20:52,395
I found the easement on, on, you know, in record.

3753
03:20:53,305 --> 03:20:55,235
It's, it is fully executed.

3754
03:20:55,375 --> 03:20:59,515
It grants rights, not obligations to that abutting owner

3755
03:20:59,895 --> 03:21:02,115
to maintain the driveway improvements

3756
03:21:02,115 --> 03:21:05,835
that are currently on 26.5.

3757
03:21:06,615 --> 03:21:09,355
It, it allows them to maintain what

3758
03:21:09,355 --> 03:21:12,395
otherwise would be an encumbrance if they don't want

3759
03:21:12,395 --> 03:21:14,595
to do it, if they want to remove those, if they want

3760
03:21:14,595 --> 03:21:17,515
to release the easement, all of that can be done.

3761
03:21:17,975 --> 03:21:19,115
But my, and

3762
03:21:19,135 --> 03:21:21,355
and again I've, I've got no knowledge of

3763
03:21:21,355 --> 03:21:22,835
what was in the seller's head at the time.

3764
03:21:23,415 --> 03:21:26,315
But I think this was done in an effort to

3765
03:21:27,015 --> 03:21:29,355
simply preserve an existing condition

3766
03:21:29,575 --> 03:21:31,915
and not cause anyone in hardship of

3767
03:21:32,775 --> 03:21:34,795
one fighting over those encroachments

3768
03:21:34,895 --> 03:21:36,355
and two, having to remove them.

3769
03:21:37,965 --> 03:21:39,995
Sorry to interrupt. So I write that down correctly.

3770
03:21:40,015 --> 03:21:42,115
You said maintaining rights to use but not,

3771
03:21:42,425 --> 03:21:44,995
They have a right to maintain the existing

3772
03:21:45,085 --> 03:21:46,285
layout of the driveway.

3773
03:21:46,555 --> 03:21:48,605
They have no obligation to keep it there

3774
03:21:48,605 --> 03:21:50,605
and they have no obligation to maintain it,

3775
03:21:51,005 --> 03:21:54,845
but they have the right to do so if it benefits them to clip

3776
03:21:54,845 --> 03:21:56,085
that corner at the front

3777
03:21:56,585 --> 03:22:00,765
and to come into that E 2 3 4 rectangle.

3778
03:22:00,765 --> 03:22:05,325
Further down the line, there was quite a bit

3779
03:22:05,325 --> 03:22:09,405
of conversation about drainage and cutting of trees.

3780
03:22:10,345 --> 03:22:12,245
Let me be very clear, we have no rights to,

3781
03:22:12,265 --> 03:22:14,365
to do any work on anyone else's property.

3782
03:22:15,065 --> 03:22:17,125
If there are trees on other people's properties

3783
03:22:17,125 --> 03:22:19,205
that they wish to preserve, we will not be touching them.

3784
03:22:19,205 --> 03:22:20,365
We cannot be touching them.

3785
03:22:21,385 --> 03:22:23,605
And as far as drainage is concerned,

3786
03:22:23,605 --> 03:22:25,685
we're talking about a single family residence

3787
03:22:25,915 --> 03:22:28,685
with residential accessory improvements

3788
03:22:29,315 --> 03:22:31,525
just like all the other properties that are there.

3789
03:22:31,545 --> 03:22:33,165
And there's no reason to suspect

3790
03:22:33,515 --> 03:22:35,965
that the impervious coverage associated

3791
03:22:36,155 --> 03:22:40,325
with a single residence would create a significant change

3792
03:22:40,785 --> 03:22:41,845
in the drainage pattern.

3793
03:22:41,985 --> 03:22:44,885
And actually, as was mentioned by one of the speakers,

3794
03:22:45,745 --> 03:22:48,245
we would have responsibility for that if it was

3795
03:22:48,825 --> 03:22:51,365
to be leaving the property flow,

3796
03:22:51,365 --> 03:22:54,285
leaving the property in an unreasonable amount

3797
03:22:54,285 --> 03:22:56,525
that changed the natural drainage pattern.

3798
03:22:56,785 --> 03:22:58,365
We don't have any easements for drainage.

3799
03:22:58,465 --> 03:22:59,605
We don't have any rights

3800
03:22:59,605 --> 03:23:00,885
to drain on other people's property.

3801
03:23:01,105 --> 03:23:02,925
We have to manage our drainage just like

3802
03:23:02,925 --> 03:23:04,205
everybody else is supposed to do.

3803
03:23:05,615 --> 03:23:09,685
There was a, a comment about whether

3804
03:23:09,705 --> 03:23:12,205
or not the house could potentially move back.

3805
03:23:12,625 --> 03:23:14,245
It could potentially move back.

3806
03:23:14,265 --> 03:23:16,085
But I can assure you that nobody wants that

3807
03:23:16,265 --> 03:23:20,845
for reasons the chairman mentioned in terms of the expense

3808
03:23:20,845 --> 03:23:23,645
of a longer driveway and more area of disturbance.

3809
03:23:23,945 --> 03:23:26,805
But also that's a perfectly good location

3810
03:23:27,155 --> 03:23:29,485
that has been scoped out by my client's builder

3811
03:23:29,545 --> 03:23:30,645
and they're quite comfortable

3812
03:23:30,835 --> 03:23:32,445
with the envelope that's put there.

3813
03:23:32,555 --> 03:23:33,885
Does it move a foot or two here

3814
03:23:33,885 --> 03:23:35,725
or there as they get into field conditions?

3815
03:23:35,885 --> 03:23:38,485
I don't know, but, but that's the preferred layout

3816
03:23:38,585 --> 03:23:40,165
and why it's proposed on the plan.

3817
03:23:41,495 --> 03:23:43,725
There was a comment about construction traffic.

3818
03:23:44,185 --> 03:23:47,885
It would be no different than developing another vacant lot

3819
03:23:48,025 --> 03:23:52,165
or redeveloping an existing residential lot with a new home

3820
03:23:53,085 --> 03:23:54,125
anywhere else in the neighborhood.

3821
03:23:54,895 --> 03:23:57,725
We're talking about a use that is sim similar

3822
03:23:58,185 --> 03:24:00,325
or same to all that surrounds it

3823
03:24:00,985 --> 03:24:02,805
and the comments about the width

3824
03:24:02,805 --> 03:24:04,565
and utility of the driveway.

3825
03:24:05,345 --> 03:24:09,405
We believe we can have a fully compliant driveway on this

3826
03:24:09,685 --> 03:24:11,565
property, whether it's 12 feet, 14 feet

3827
03:24:11,875 --> 03:24:13,685
with the required grade

3828
03:24:13,865 --> 03:24:17,765
and the required shoulders so that utility

3829
03:24:17,825 --> 03:24:20,885
and emergency vehicles would have reasonable

3830
03:24:20,905 --> 03:24:21,965
and typical access.

3831
03:24:22,825 --> 03:24:24,885
And that would be on us as the applicant

3832
03:24:25,185 --> 03:24:27,845
for a building permit and the party constructing a residence

3833
03:24:28,145 --> 03:24:29,405
to make sure that at the end

3834
03:24:29,405 --> 03:24:32,205
of the day we've followed the rules to be able

3835
03:24:32,205 --> 03:24:33,365
to occupy the structure.

3836
03:24:34,605 --> 03:24:36,165
I raced, I raced through that Mr.

3837
03:24:36,445 --> 03:24:39,485
Chairman, I, I took you seriously about four minutes. Okay.

3838
03:24:40,305 --> 03:24:42,725
I'm out of breath and I'll stop. Alright, well very good.

3839
03:24:42,865 --> 03:24:45,925
And as one person to another that probably we both forget

3840
03:24:45,925 --> 03:24:47,325
what we had for breakfast this morning.

3841
03:24:47,445 --> 03:24:49,165
I appreciate that. The,

3842
03:24:50,525 --> 03:24:54,365
I I think one thing we'll be curious about is grading.

3843
03:24:54,505 --> 03:24:56,405
And I know you have Mr. McCarthy here.

3844
03:24:56,405 --> 03:24:59,605
Perhaps he can provide that for us prior to the next

3845
03:25:01,015 --> 03:25:03,565
board meeting to,

3846
03:25:04,545 --> 03:25:08,685
and perhaps look at how the drainage is,

3847
03:25:09,225 --> 03:25:10,285
is suspected here.

3848
03:25:10,765 --> 03:25:13,845
I also see the approximate proposed leach bed, which,

3849
03:25:13,945 --> 03:25:16,285
you know, weighs into where the house is.

3850
03:25:16,745 --> 03:25:21,165
Yes. Might go. Is has that test pit been done at this point

3851
03:25:21,225 --> 03:25:22,565
or is that just a building?

3852
03:25:22,825 --> 03:25:25,765
We did a test pit. You did? Yeah. Okay. It's been proof.

3853
03:25:25,765 --> 03:25:28,405
So, so is that going to be your test pit location where

3854
03:25:28,405 --> 03:25:29,525
that's shown on the map?

3855
03:25:29,965 --> 03:25:31,805
I believe so. Okay. And what's your

3856
03:25:31,805 --> 03:25:32,885
water table looking like?

3857
03:25:34,005 --> 03:25:36,405
I, I didn't roughly have the data all. It was good.

3858
03:25:36,705 --> 03:25:40,205
If you can gimme the grading for the next meeting as well as

3859
03:25:40,355 --> 03:25:44,325
that, that, have you gotten an approval from DES yet?

3860
03:25:45,385 --> 03:25:48,805
No. You haven't submitted No. As necessary. Right.

3861
03:25:49,125 --> 03:25:52,245
I suppose when, when this blew up, we hit the brakes. Sure.

3862
03:25:52,245 --> 03:25:54,045
Yeah, no, I get it as necessary. All right.

3863
03:25:54,045 --> 03:25:55,005
I think you'll know what

3864
03:25:55,005 --> 03:25:56,205
we're looking for for the next meeting.

3865
03:25:56,205 --> 03:26:00,405
Appreciate it. Okay. Very good. Motion to table this motion

3866
03:26:00,405 --> 03:26:03,085
Table until Our next meeting on June 18th.

3867
03:26:03,405 --> 03:26:06,645
18th. Very good. Second please. Mr. Donald. Second.

3868
03:26:06,735 --> 03:26:09,565
Thank you very much. All in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Aye.

3869
03:26:09,715 --> 03:26:11,085
Very good. Have a good evening gentlemen.

3870
03:26:11,095 --> 03:26:12,205
Thank you very much for your time.

3871
03:26:12,275 --> 03:26:13,125
Yeah, thank you for staying

3872
03:26:13,125 --> 03:26:14,205
late and we'll see you in two weeks.

3873
03:26:14,225 --> 03:26:18,925
Yes. Appreciate it. Otherwise, pretty good.

3874
03:26:19,525 --> 03:26:22,885
Next up is a review of summer schedule.

3875
03:26:23,105 --> 03:26:27,165
Do you have, does staff have preferred days there

3876
03:26:27,735 --> 03:26:30,765
other than every Friday in the month of July? I

3877
03:26:30,895 --> 03:26:34,445
Think if we follow town council then

3878
03:26:35,315 --> 03:26:38,575
my friend on my left gets a whole week.

3879
03:26:40,035 --> 03:26:42,775
When's town council Mr. Prevent you, do you remember?

3880
03:26:43,425 --> 03:26:44,425
Sorry. That's all right.

3881
03:26:45,215 --> 03:26:47,335
I, off the top of my head, I'm not sure

3882
03:26:47,395 --> 03:26:48,575
of the August month,

3883
03:26:48,595 --> 03:26:50,975
but July I think they're avoiding the first week

3884
03:26:51,235 --> 03:26:52,335
as being the holiday week. Yeah.

3885
03:26:52,885 --> 03:26:54,615
July 2nd, third Week of July.

3886
03:26:55,995 --> 03:26:57,375
I'm Sorry, third week of July.

3887
03:26:57,915 --> 03:27:00,815
You Third week of July. Okay. I won't be here. Okay.

3888
03:27:01,065 --> 03:27:02,375
Third. Oh you won't,

3889
03:27:03,715 --> 03:27:05,135
It would be July 2nd.

3890
03:27:05,305 --> 03:27:07,135
Folks, can I get you to exit the room please?

3891
03:27:09,055 --> 03:27:12,975
Mr. Chair will be out first, second

3892
03:27:12,995 --> 03:27:14,655
and third week of July. Myself,

3893
03:27:14,995 --> 03:27:17,215
I'm sorry again, I'll be out the first, second

3894
03:27:17,235 --> 03:27:19,095
and third week of July

3895
03:27:19,675 --> 03:27:20,675
Far.

3896
03:27:20,675 --> 03:27:21,495
All of July. You'll lose me for week three.

3897
03:27:21,965 --> 03:27:23,975
I'll be gone the first week of July. But

3898
03:27:24,355 --> 03:27:25,695
You're gone the first week of July?

3899
03:27:25,695 --> 03:27:27,775
Yeah, I, I think we're practically going to have

3900
03:27:27,775 --> 03:27:31,135
to be the third week of July because July 4th.

3901
03:27:31,245 --> 03:27:34,055
Okay. And then August, did you have a suggestion?

3902
03:27:34,355 --> 03:27:37,495
I'm not, I'm not sure what the council chose

3903
03:27:37,635 --> 03:27:39,535
For that Second or they chose the first one.

3904
03:27:39,635 --> 03:27:40,655
The first one. So it would be

3905
03:27:40,655 --> 03:27:41,655
August 6th.

3906
03:27:43,165 --> 03:27:44,845
I can Do August 6th does,

3907
03:27:44,935 --> 03:27:47,565
Which would be two weeks after the July meeting.

3908
03:27:48,025 --> 03:27:49,525
You're not sorry again, Ms. Owen

3909
03:27:51,545 --> 03:27:52,545
Jo.

3910
03:27:52,545 --> 03:27:54,165
The, that would be the first meeting in August,

3911
03:27:54,165 --> 03:27:55,405
which would be two weeks after that.

3912
03:27:55,595 --> 03:27:59,245
That meeting in July If you, if you stuck with that.

3913
03:28:00,475 --> 03:28:02,765
Alright. Consistently over the years, it's all,

3914
03:28:02,795 --> 03:28:05,005
it's been the third week of July. Third week of August I

3915
03:28:05,005 --> 03:28:06,005
Think.

3916
03:28:06,005 --> 03:28:06,645
I think the 4th of July impacts it enough

3917
03:28:06,645 --> 03:28:08,165
that we can do the first and third.

3918
03:28:08,545 --> 03:28:09,805
But that would be my recommendation.

3919
03:28:09,915 --> 03:28:12,205
Just historically, it's usually the third week each time.

3920
03:28:12,555 --> 03:28:15,245
Okay. Ms. Boudreaux, that works for you. Did you

3921
03:28:15,305 --> 03:28:19,165
Say the third week of July and then August 6th?

3922
03:28:19,585 --> 03:28:23,365
No, the third week of July. The third week of August. Yep.

3923
03:28:25,385 --> 03:28:28,085
We all in favor of that sir. Very good.

3924
03:28:30,505 --> 03:28:33,845
And then minutes we table please. Yes. Yes.

3925
03:28:33,935 --> 03:28:37,405
Table around a couple of May 7th. I think

3926
03:28:38,965 --> 03:28:41,525
I wanna table last week changes to

3927
03:28:41,525 --> 03:28:42,525
Me.

3928
03:28:42,525 --> 03:28:44,645
Okay. And so I need a motion for

3929
03:28:44,645 --> 03:28:48,645
that approval on the minutes to table 5 7 5 21.

3930
03:28:49,045 --> 03:28:51,245
I make the motion we table both minutes for five,

3931
03:28:51,415 --> 03:28:52,965
seven and 5 21. Very

3932
03:28:52,965 --> 03:28:53,965
Good.

3933
03:28:53,965 --> 03:28:56,405
Second. Second. All in favor? Aye. Any opposed?

3934
03:28:56,515 --> 03:28:59,485
Hearing none to peer properties.

3935
03:28:59,625 --> 03:29:04,005
So we have to bring that back in some way, shape or form.

3936
03:29:05,425 --> 03:29:10,005
Mr. The HAB took a long time to decide this case

3937
03:29:10,185 --> 03:29:11,845
and remand it back to us.

3938
03:29:13,065 --> 03:29:14,925
Mr. Burgess is not here.

3939
03:29:15,385 --> 03:29:20,125
So evaluating deeper discussion on the decision

3940
03:29:21,105 --> 03:29:25,005
is kind of tough to do as he was one of the deciders.

3941
03:29:26,265 --> 03:29:28,565
We can bring this back for a full hearing

3942
03:29:28,905 --> 03:29:33,765
or bring this back for I guess open discussion

3943
03:29:33,985 --> 03:29:37,125
and reevaluating the, the decision.

3944
03:29:39,025 --> 03:29:41,245
The second of the two is more abbreviated.

3945
03:29:42,155 --> 03:29:44,525
Does anybody have a feel for how you'd want to go that

3946
03:29:45,045 --> 03:29:48,525
I missed this, the last meeting that's led

3947
03:29:48,525 --> 03:29:50,165
to this set of appeals?

3948
03:29:51,005 --> 03:29:53,765
I would be content making them come back a third time.

3949
03:29:54,565 --> 03:29:56,325
I would also be had, I'd probably,

3950
03:29:57,125 --> 03:29:58,525
I guess I could sit and step in

3951
03:29:58,665 --> 03:30:00,045
Mr. Burgess, but I would,

3952
03:30:01,975 --> 03:30:04,335
I would think maybe he'd let them just do the revised

3953
03:30:04,445 --> 03:30:06,375
talking points and then dive back into deliberative.

3954
03:30:07,635 --> 03:30:09,535
Almost take it as a man back to us.

3955
03:30:10,205 --> 03:30:14,695
Okay. Anybody have opposition to that?

3956
03:30:15,195 --> 03:30:18,895
I'm okay with it. Alright, very good.

3957
03:30:18,955 --> 03:30:22,655
So Ms. Owen, we'll notify te Pere properties, Mr.

3958
03:30:23,215 --> 03:30:26,495
Attorney Suki that we're gonna bring this back for

3959
03:30:27,065 --> 03:30:28,135
brief discussion

3960
03:30:29,795 --> 03:30:32,575
and reevaluate our vote on it.

3961
03:30:35,105 --> 03:30:38,935
We're not looking for new information on it. Okay.

3962
03:30:39,745 --> 03:30:42,045
All right. Very good. I think we've covered our agenda

3963
03:30:42,065 --> 03:30:45,525
as much as we can for the evening that we can take a

3964
03:30:46,505 --> 03:30:47,685
motion to adjourn.

3965
03:30:48,035 --> 03:30:49,765
Make the motion. Second. Second.

3966
03:30:50,745 --> 03:30:53,565
All in favor of adjournment, say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed?

3967
03:30:53,565 --> 03:30:55,205
Hearing none. Have a good night everybody.