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Welcome to the Town of Dairy Planning Board meeting

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for June 17th, 2026.

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We start our meetings with the Pledge of Allegiance,

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so if you would please join

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me. I pledge Allegiance.

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Allegiance to the flag

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of the United States of America in the Republic wishes

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stands, one Nation under God, indivisible,

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with liberty and justice.

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I think the staff

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and members are well aware of the emergency exit,

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so I will wave that.

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Notification of the planning board

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voluntarily continues to offer remote participation.

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Any member of the planning board participates remotely,

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vote shall be by roll call.

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In order to attend this meeting remotely using a computer

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or a smart device like a phone visit www

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zoom us.

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Enter our meeting ID

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seven five four six six three nine one two.

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Or you may call in on the phone for audio only

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by calling 6 4 6 5 5 8 8 6 5 6.

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Same meeting ID 7 5 4 6 6 3 9 1 2.

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And if you have technical difficulties getting in remotely,

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please call

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(603) 845-5585.

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If you're on the phone and you wish to speak, hit start nine

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to request to be recognized.

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And once you have been recognized, hit star six

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to unmute yourself.

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I'll now introduce the members

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and staff who are present tonight

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to my far right is alternate, Mr.

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Mousy, good evening, planning Director at Ms. Robo.

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Good evening Planning intern Ms.

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Bur Planning Clerk, Ms. Wilson

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Town Council Liaison, Mr. Chase.

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Good evening, member Worcester Wood.

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Good evening, member Mr. Menini.

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Good evening, Vice chair. Mr. O'Connor.

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Good evening to my far left is Mr.

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Preventer, who's coordinator for Dairy Cam

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and makes all the wonderful technology happen.

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Good evening Town Administrator Representative Mr. Ello.

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Good evening and member Mr. Pier. Good evening.

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We are missing a couple folks. So I'm gonna ask Mr.

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Moey to sit for Mr. Fishman and I'm gonna ask Mr.

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Pier if he would be willing to act as acting secretary.

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First item on our agenda is an item at escrow.

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Item number 26 dash 21 for Glenco Construction.

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Okay, so this is for the subdivision

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of 3 43 Island Pond Road.

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The developer is Glencoe Construction.

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This is a cash escrow. Parcel ID is map 17 lot two.

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The request is to approve a final release

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of cash escrow in the amount of $4,945.

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For the above noted project, the amount to retain is zero.

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Mr. Chairman, you Second

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Moved by O'Connor, second by Pier to accept

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the escrow as presented.

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Mr. Chase? Yes. Mr. Wood? Yes. Mr. Menini? Yes.

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Mr. O'Connor? Yes. Mr. Mousy? Yes. Mr. Ello? Yes. Mr. Pier?

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Yes. Chair votes? Yes.

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Next item is the approval of minutes for June 3rd, 2026.

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Has everyone had a chance to review them?

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Are there any errors or omissions?

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Mr. Chase, do you know formally

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or move to accept as written? Second.

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Okay. Move to accept. As written by O'Connor.

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Seconded by Pier. Mr. Chase? Yes. Mr. Wood? Yes. Mr.

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Menini? Yes. Mr. O'Connor?

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I'm abstain. Absent.

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Okay. Abstain. Mr. Zy? Yes. And Mr. Ello?

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I'll abstain as well. Abstain and Mr. Pier? Yes. Here.

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Votes Yes. Minutes were accepted.

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Next item is correspondence.

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All right, we had two pieces

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of correspondence in our packets this week.

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First one is from the town of Beau having a public hearing

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reference to a new communications

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tower that they're putting up.

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Public hearing is gonna be on June 18th,

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7:00 PM at their town office building.

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The second piece that we had was from Wyndham.

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They met and declared a regional impact reference

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to the construction

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of a sports zone style bubble in Wyndham.

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Thank you. Under other business we have a first

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request for extension on approval

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for parcel ID 0 5 0 6 9 18 Cemetery Road.

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Sharon l Butterfield. Trustee.

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Okay. So for this one,

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the planning board approved a four lot subdivision

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for Sharon l Butterfield revocable trust on

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January 7th of this year.

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The conditions of approval allowed six months

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to meet the requirements.

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The applicant has been working diligently

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to secure the required state approvals

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and is currently working with DES

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to obtain the state subdivision approval.

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The applicant is requesting an additional six months

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to secure the necessary permits into

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establish construction escrow.

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Current approval expires July 7th.

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The recommendation would be to grant a six month extension

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and the new expiration date would be January 7th

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of 27th. Okay.

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I have one, I have one question.

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Yes, I should know this, but I

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maybe didn't listen well enough during all the training.

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Why does the state get involved in subdivision approval?

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If you subdivide a lot

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and it results in a lot with less than five acres

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the state needs, if it is going to involve a septic system,

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the state needs to approve it because

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It's, oh, I understand they need septic approvals,

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but they're not actually approving the

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subdivision of land. They

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Approve the, they don't approve the subdivision like we

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do, but they, they approve as part of that,

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they approved the subdivision to say

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that they agree there's enough acreage as proposed

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to sustain septic systems which have

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their own separate permits.

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Yeah. Okay. Mr. Mr. Mr. McConnell

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Over the past year, I think you noticed

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Is your, is your mic.

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Oh.

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If you notice over the past year, many of the people

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that come in front of us have basically said the same thing.

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That they're always waiting for DES. They're way behind.

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I know they're understaffed and everything,

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but I can concur with the fact away.

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So many people come back and ask for extensions.

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Wasn't there a an initiative to

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Expand That?

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Expand? Was that only for, for the

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alteration of terrain permits

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or was that for all DES approvals must be

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60 days. Yeah.

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The, the primary, the primary one was the alteration

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of terrain permit to kind of amend that process.

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There was a lot of back and forth with fish and game

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and conservation.

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Yeah. In, yeah.

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So there, there was a lot of back

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and forth between the departments

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and they understood based on developer feedback

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that they needed to really streamline their process.

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So when Governor AOT came in,

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that was one of her directives.

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And so they did look at that.

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They're also looking at other departments.

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I haven't done a deep dive into some of the wetlands things,

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but I know wetlands permitting has changed.

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A OT has changed there.

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There's very, they're tightening up the requirements

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and the times that they have to approve things.

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Okay. Well hopefully this will get better. Yeah.

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Thank you Mr. Lenner. Anyone else have comments? Ions?

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Okay. Motion. Oh,

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Sorry Mr.

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Chair. I moved to Grant a six month extension of approval.

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The new EXP expiration date will be

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January 7th, 2027.

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Moved by O'Connor, a second by Pier

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to grant the requested extension. Mr. Chase?

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Yes. Mr. Wood? Yes. Mr. Menini? Yes. Mr. O'Connor? Yes.

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Mr. Mazi? Yes. Mr. Ello? Yes. Mr. Palantier? Yes.

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And chair votes? Yes. Next we have a fourth extension

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request on an approval for parcel id.

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3 5 0 1 1 dash

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0 1 14 Folsom Road.

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Stinson Hills. LLC.

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Okay, thank you. The planning board approved a 28,800

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square foot multi-building medical office site plan in

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February of 2020.

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The board has since granted three

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extensions of the approval.

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The current approval expires on July 15th of this year.

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The applicant has met all of the conditions of approval

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with the exception of establishing escrow.

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Historically, the board has not been asked

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to consider a fourth extension.

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However, in this particular case,

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there are some circumstances that are

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beyond the control of the applicant.

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The alteration of terrain permit is still in effect

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and won't expire until 2029.

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The property is subject to New Hampshire,

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DOT takings for the exit four.

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A project which we're all aware is under active construction

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right now for contract B.

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When the project was originally approved, it was expected

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that contract B would be completed

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and all construction along the frontage of the project

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Would be finalized so that they'd know exactly

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where their entrance would be

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and they could amend their plan accordingly.

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The DOT project was delayed.

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DOT also took a small portion of the property

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and secured temporary slope easements

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for construction purposes.

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And those easements will not expire until 2030 or one year

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after the completion of the four A project.

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Currently there's an active roadway construction occurring

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at the access to the property, which would make development

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of the project problematic.

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And for these extenuating circumstances,

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the applicant is asking the board to consider their request

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and we would recommend that you grant a 24 month extension

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to allow completion of the construction project. Four

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Months.

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Okay. Any comments, questions?

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Yeah, I'd like to make, like to make a comment

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and one is that DOT was also going through a lawsuit

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that took well over a year to resolve.

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Yes. And so that's put them behind.

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In addition to that, some of the acquisitions

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of when I was a state rep at the times, some of the issues

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with the delay in accumulating

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the property to be able to get in.

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So I think to actually almost two years

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behind schedule right now, if I try

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to go on their website today that it's not updated.

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Okay. So I would concur to go with the, the possibility

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of the 24 month extension for approval.

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No other comments, then let's have a motion.

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Okay. Mr. Chair, I recommend that

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to grant a 24 month extension of approval.

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The new expiration date will be

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July 15th, 2028.

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And I so move

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Moved by O'Connor, seconded by Pier

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to grant the extension as requested.

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Mr. Chase? Yes. Mr. Wood? Yes. Mr. Menini? Yes.

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Mr. O'Connor? Yes. Mr. Mazi? Yes. Mr. Ello? Yes. Mr. Paler?

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Yes. And chair votes? Yes.

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And last item under administrative business is to review

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and prioritize set of planning board goals,

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which you have all seen before.

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And there's a,

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a large printout in package.

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So are we proposing that all

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of this fit in this current year?

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Well, I guess that that's what I was asking the board.

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Do you want to wanna do an aggressive schedule?

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We can do it.

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So the timeframe, does that mean

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how long you think it will take to complete from

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initial drafting to getting it to the council?

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Yeah, so short term would probably be

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about three to three.

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Three months or so.

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Okay. So members

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have reviewed this, I assumed have some

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thoughts and preferences?

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No. Okay. Take it over on the side.

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You guys like it as is?

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Well, I mean, first of all,

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did CBD amendments, didn't we actually complete that?

264
00:13:07,955 --> 00:13:09,665
We're do. Oh, we could delete that

265
00:13:09,665 --> 00:13:12,145
because we are taking care of those tonight.

266
00:13:13,475 --> 00:13:17,865
Right. With regard

267
00:13:17,925 --> 00:13:20,545
to number two, is this

268
00:13:21,875 --> 00:13:26,265
based on unexpected or, or even on enacted legislation?

269
00:13:26,965 --> 00:13:30,505
It is not. We, I had brought this to the attention

270
00:13:30,565 --> 00:13:32,385
of the board about a month or so ago.

271
00:13:32,935 --> 00:13:37,385
What we're finding is that on lots in areas

272
00:13:37,435 --> 00:13:39,345
where we did not have water

273
00:13:39,605 --> 00:13:42,905
or sewer available in the MDR

274
00:13:42,905 --> 00:13:46,365
or the LMDR, you know,

275
00:13:46,365 --> 00:13:48,485
we had our normal frontages and lot sizes.

276
00:13:48,555 --> 00:13:52,325
What we're finding is that water

277
00:13:52,325 --> 00:13:54,365
and sewer is now moving into those areas.

278
00:13:54,865 --> 00:13:59,405
And the ZBA is being asked to approve lot size

279
00:13:59,925 --> 00:14:01,405
reductions and frontage reductions

280
00:14:01,405 --> 00:14:05,285
because there's like services available normally

281
00:14:05,985 --> 00:14:07,165
lot size reductions

282
00:14:07,315 --> 00:14:11,365
because there's, especially with water going through,

283
00:14:11,795 --> 00:14:16,405
they don't need the room to maintain the well radius

284
00:14:16,475 --> 00:14:17,965
between the well and the septic.

285
00:14:18,505 --> 00:14:22,125
So in the ZBA has been approving a lot of those requests.

286
00:14:22,465 --> 00:14:26,965
So we're, it's probably a good time to look at the zoning

287
00:14:27,145 --> 00:14:31,285
and see if it makes sense to look at that again

288
00:14:31,385 --> 00:14:32,565
and, and see what

289
00:14:34,395 --> 00:14:35,395
Sure.

290
00:14:35,395 --> 00:14:39,525
Yeah. I mean off the top of my head, if, if if water

291
00:14:39,625 --> 00:14:42,165
and sewer triggers through a smaller

292
00:14:44,675 --> 00:14:48,205
area requirement for a lot than maybe some of those parcels

293
00:14:48,205 --> 00:14:49,725
where that service exists actually

294
00:14:49,725 --> 00:14:50,765
belong in a different district.

295
00:14:51,115 --> 00:14:54,885
That too. Yeah. Any, any other thoughts right

296
00:14:54,885 --> 00:14:56,045
Here, Mr. O'Connor?

297
00:14:56,265 --> 00:14:59,925
Yes. One of my thoughts is the fact that not to talk

298
00:14:59,945 --> 00:15:04,605
to made me Mr. Chase is that with the new development

299
00:15:04,605 --> 00:15:07,965
of expanding the water flow from here down through Windham

300
00:15:07,985 --> 00:15:09,405
and, and the location that

301
00:15:10,145 --> 00:15:13,525
we were also gonna now include sewer, I believe that's part

302
00:15:13,825 --> 00:15:15,645
of some of the future plans.

303
00:15:16,035 --> 00:15:17,245
That whole Ryan's Hill

304
00:15:17,345 --> 00:15:19,125
and then going off to another section.

305
00:15:19,785 --> 00:15:22,165
So I think if something would behoove us to

306
00:15:22,825 --> 00:15:25,205
add this area into the, the scope,

307
00:15:27,635 --> 00:15:28,635
Yeah, it would.

308
00:15:28,635 --> 00:15:32,845
And also in the second phase of that

309
00:15:33,525 --> 00:15:37,405
expanded water, we'll they'll also propose to add a

310
00:15:38,235 --> 00:15:40,325
through storage tank onto Warner Hill Road.

311
00:15:40,985 --> 00:15:45,865
So it would be adding some water out

312
00:15:45,865 --> 00:15:48,705
in that area also, plus enhancing what is already there.

313
00:15:48,705 --> 00:15:50,945
Some of the community wells and such. Yep.

314
00:15:51,245 --> 00:15:53,705
So I think all of those areas

315
00:15:54,225 --> 00:15:55,545
that are gonna be encumbered in

316
00:15:55,545 --> 00:15:57,745
that second phase should be looked at.

317
00:16:01,005 --> 00:16:05,145
And so that seems like a reasonable thing to look at is,

318
00:16:05,165 --> 00:16:09,385
is the proposal for that to be the second work item up

319
00:16:09,525 --> 00:16:11,585
for to be addressed?

320
00:16:12,765 --> 00:16:14,825
We could, we could do it.

321
00:16:15,105 --> 00:16:17,105
We could reprioritize any of these.

322
00:16:17,685 --> 00:16:19,705
That's really what I was looking for from the board.

323
00:16:19,725 --> 00:16:21,825
You know, did you agree these are things we should work on?

324
00:16:22,365 --> 00:16:24,425
Is this the right order for them?

325
00:16:24,925 --> 00:16:26,665
And then who wanted to take lead on it?

326
00:16:27,095 --> 00:16:31,425
Okay. That seems like it has

327
00:16:31,425 --> 00:16:33,145
potential impact.

328
00:16:33,145 --> 00:16:34,985
And if we're seeing a lot of variances,

329
00:16:36,365 --> 00:16:39,425
we probably should address that in the fairly short term.

330
00:16:41,565 --> 00:16:42,985
The other one that in number three

331
00:16:46,435 --> 00:16:49,265
state law requires that we have a, a chapter

332
00:16:50,285 --> 00:16:52,585
in our zoning ordinance for workforce housing.

333
00:16:53,285 --> 00:16:55,385
We don't, we have workforce housing terms

334
00:16:55,485 --> 00:16:58,465
and conditions sprinkled through out the entire document.

335
00:16:58,565 --> 00:17:02,265
And the planning director and I chatted about this

336
00:17:02,265 --> 00:17:05,305
and the thought was to create a non-normative,

337
00:17:05,725 --> 00:17:08,305
and by that I mean it doesn't actually change the ordinance.

338
00:17:08,305 --> 00:17:09,825
It's basically an index.

339
00:17:09,985 --> 00:17:12,625
A guide to where you find all the parts

340
00:17:12,805 --> 00:17:16,545
of the workforce housing puzzle in our ordinance

341
00:17:16,565 --> 00:17:17,705
by chapter in verse.

342
00:17:18,565 --> 00:17:22,545
So it, it at least complies with the spirit of the,

343
00:17:22,925 --> 00:17:26,025
the state law without having to do a lot

344
00:17:26,025 --> 00:17:27,425
of heavy lifting with redrafting.

345
00:17:27,425 --> 00:17:29,705
The, the zoning zoning ordinance itself.

346
00:17:30,165 --> 00:17:34,385
So first, is that a reasonable idea to do?

347
00:17:36,865 --> 00:17:39,125
Any thoughts on that? Can,

348
00:17:39,185 --> 00:17:41,285
Can the town still be held accountable

349
00:17:41,385 --> 00:17:43,565
for the way it is right now versus a,

350
00:17:43,725 --> 00:17:46,245
a solid ordinance just for work housing?

351
00:17:47,475 --> 00:17:51,245
Well, a court could answer that.

352
00:17:52,825 --> 00:17:55,365
We don't wanna do that. But I, I think that

353
00:17:57,995 --> 00:18:01,485
this would certainly be a, a first step if we, if we had

354
00:18:01,485 --> 00:18:02,685
to rewrite the zoning ordinance

355
00:18:02,685 --> 00:18:05,325
and create a separate chapter just for workforce housing,

356
00:18:05,675 --> 00:18:07,405
this would get our ducks in a row.

357
00:18:08,185 --> 00:18:12,645
Or it might be that, you know, the legal system says, well,

358
00:18:12,825 --> 00:18:15,125
you know, people can figure out what, what,

359
00:18:15,125 --> 00:18:17,365
what you've got from this guide.

360
00:18:19,065 --> 00:18:23,645
And that does not say that all of the opportunities

361
00:18:23,645 --> 00:18:24,885
that everyone would like to see

362
00:18:24,905 --> 00:18:26,765
for workforce housing are provided.

363
00:18:27,185 --> 00:18:30,205
But at least it's, it's clear what we have

364
00:18:31,745 --> 00:18:36,005
and it would not be, it would not be a lot of work.

365
00:18:36,425 --> 00:18:40,805
My only hesitancy is I have no idea how

366
00:18:40,805 --> 00:18:43,845
to create a non-normative, you know, appendix

367
00:18:43,905 --> 00:18:45,525
to the zoning ordinance.

368
00:18:45,765 --> 00:18:49,685
'cause ordinances are usually local municipal law.

369
00:18:50,235 --> 00:18:52,005
This would be a guidebook.

370
00:18:52,945 --> 00:18:56,065
So I don't know where we'd put it. That's my only concern.

371
00:18:57,725 --> 00:18:59,705
But I think we may have, and I can remember

372
00:18:59,705 --> 00:19:03,305
and maybe Liz can help out, when Judge Sheros was here,

373
00:19:03,375 --> 00:19:06,665
they used to, every so many months he would tell us

374
00:19:06,665 --> 00:19:10,105
where we stood as far as the amount of workforce housing.

375
00:19:10,705 --> 00:19:13,265
'cause if anybody was to ask is dairy in compliance

376
00:19:13,685 --> 00:19:16,905
and dairy would far exceeded the compliance back on then.

377
00:19:17,165 --> 00:19:18,705
But I don't have the math on

378
00:19:18,725 --> 00:19:20,225
how he had done that at the time.

379
00:19:21,125 --> 00:19:22,345
And I don't know whether lista,

380
00:19:22,625 --> 00:19:23,825
'cause that was quite a few years

381
00:19:23,825 --> 00:19:24,825
Ago.

382
00:19:24,825 --> 00:19:25,185
He obtained the numbers from Southern

383
00:19:25,185 --> 00:19:26,465
New Hampshire Planning Commission.

384
00:19:27,405 --> 00:19:28,585
So it came from it.

385
00:19:28,725 --> 00:19:31,105
So we would, we would obtain those numbers now

386
00:19:31,535 --> 00:19:33,265
from American Community Survey.

387
00:19:33,725 --> 00:19:36,185
George used to pull them, I think from the census in

388
00:19:36,745 --> 00:19:38,345
Southern New Hampshire planning's estimates.

389
00:19:39,525 --> 00:19:42,585
But American Community Survey kind

390
00:19:42,585 --> 00:19:45,305
of tracks more up-to-date data annually.

391
00:19:46,045 --> 00:19:48,665
So we could, we could pull numbers from there.

392
00:19:49,065 --> 00:19:51,505
I think we're still, we're still on track

393
00:19:53,845 --> 00:19:56,225
and I think we're still trending a little bit higher than

394
00:19:56,225 --> 00:20:00,145
other communities with regard to affordable housing.

395
00:20:02,015 --> 00:20:03,305
Okay. Thank you. Yeah.

396
00:20:04,005 --> 00:20:05,745
So I guess

397
00:20:05,745 --> 00:20:09,585
before we launch this, maybe we should actually ask council,

398
00:20:10,125 --> 00:20:11,425
Hey, we're supposed

399
00:20:11,425 --> 00:20:13,305
to have a separate chapter in the zoning ordinance.

400
00:20:14,005 --> 00:20:16,345
All the issues are already covered in

401
00:20:16,345 --> 00:20:17,505
different pieces of it.

402
00:20:17,915 --> 00:20:22,265
Would, would an index guide be a sufficient substitute

403
00:20:22,285 --> 00:20:24,625
for rewriting it into a single chapter?

404
00:20:26,005 --> 00:20:27,345
See what, see what they say.

405
00:20:27,815 --> 00:20:28,905
Alright, I'll reach out

406
00:20:29,015 --> 00:20:33,635
Because I, I am still a little dubious as to

407
00:20:33,695 --> 00:20:35,035
how we would adopt it.

408
00:20:35,155 --> 00:20:38,365
'cause it's not really part of the ordinance.

409
00:20:38,395 --> 00:20:40,445
It's, well, I guess you could put it as an appendix,

410
00:20:40,445 --> 00:20:44,365
but it basically just an index, this topic, this page,

411
00:20:44,635 --> 00:20:46,405
this section, this topic, this page,

412
00:20:46,405 --> 00:20:47,565
this section sort of thing.

413
00:20:47,635 --> 00:20:50,205
Okay. Okay. Is what we were thinking.

414
00:20:52,585 --> 00:20:54,285
All I will, I will do that.

415
00:21:01,625 --> 00:21:04,765
So we've talked about solar requirement

416
00:21:04,785 --> 00:21:07,805
and I guess we all agree it's a little outdated.

417
00:21:12,015 --> 00:21:16,115
It, it didn't cover ground mounted

418
00:21:16,115 --> 00:21:19,355
and it didn't, you know, give specific directions

419
00:21:19,355 --> 00:21:23,925
for roof mounted and the, the, the 15 K is

420
00:21:23,925 --> 00:21:25,325
what kilowatts Yes.

421
00:21:25,465 --> 00:21:28,795
Yes. It doesn't seem to me that the water output ought

422
00:21:28,795 --> 00:21:31,715
to be the threshold for, for land use planning.

423
00:21:31,775 --> 00:21:36,395
But hey, maybe square footage

424
00:21:36,415 --> 00:21:37,715
of footprint or something like that.

425
00:21:38,215 --> 00:21:39,435
We can, we can look at that.

426
00:21:40,715 --> 00:21:45,115
I think it, when we originally did our language,

427
00:21:45,275 --> 00:21:48,395
I think we drew that from John would remember.

428
00:21:48,655 --> 00:21:50,275
Do we draw that from state guidance

429
00:21:51,035 --> 00:21:53,075
when we wrote our solar ordinance?

430
00:21:54,825 --> 00:21:56,945
I think, I think that some of the language came from there.

431
00:21:57,085 --> 00:21:58,745
But we can definitely look at it.

432
00:21:58,765 --> 00:21:59,785
And so, and,

433
00:21:59,785 --> 00:22:01,825
and I agree that, you know, it should be something

434
00:22:01,825 --> 00:22:04,505
that is more dimensional.

435
00:22:05,975 --> 00:22:07,985
Well, there is one avenue we could take Mr.

436
00:22:08,035 --> 00:22:11,185
Chair is the fact that the original sole ordinance

437
00:22:11,185 --> 00:22:15,065
that we have, majority of it was taken from the state.

438
00:22:15,885 --> 00:22:18,065
And I was on that particular committee

439
00:22:18,065 --> 00:22:20,745
with a few other people from conservation so forth.

440
00:22:23,435 --> 00:22:25,905
There was a potential that we could have,

441
00:22:26,095 --> 00:22:29,785
have an organization in the state of New Hampshire

442
00:22:30,285 --> 00:22:32,585
that's looking at rewriting all the, so,

443
00:22:32,965 --> 00:22:36,145
and they had reviewed all of dairies last year.

444
00:22:36,725 --> 00:22:40,305
But at the time, the code enforcement, which is how

445
00:22:40,305 --> 00:22:43,745
that was leaning to it, didn't have the time to be able

446
00:22:43,765 --> 00:22:45,305
to review all of that.

447
00:22:46,085 --> 00:22:47,545
So it's an opportunity.

448
00:22:47,825 --> 00:22:51,105
'cause I actually got a email from the woman

449
00:22:51,125 --> 00:22:53,465
that's in charge of the clean energy program.

450
00:22:53,655 --> 00:22:55,545
Yeah, I've seen those. She's trying to, so

451
00:22:55,545 --> 00:22:59,305
She's, I I don't, I don't know whether that it's, it's,

452
00:23:00,275 --> 00:23:02,505
she's trying to clean up a project, trying to make a sale.

453
00:23:02,545 --> 00:23:04,345
I don't, I don't know what she's trying to achieve.

454
00:23:04,485 --> 00:23:07,985
But if indeed it is

455
00:23:09,635 --> 00:23:11,385
split between land use and,

456
00:23:11,485 --> 00:23:16,185
and code enforcement, then we can't really, you know,

457
00:23:17,445 --> 00:23:18,505
Direct code Enforcement.

458
00:23:18,645 --> 00:23:20,065
We can't direct the, the, the,

459
00:23:20,685 --> 00:23:22,905
the code enforcement department as to their priorities.

460
00:23:23,005 --> 00:23:26,785
So I think the changes we were talking about were only those

461
00:23:26,785 --> 00:23:29,745
that, you know, for example, when we,

462
00:23:31,055 --> 00:23:33,865
when we had the solar farm on the roof of the,

463
00:23:34,125 --> 00:23:37,785
the parking structure at Abbott Court, we had no idea how

464
00:23:37,785 --> 00:23:38,825
to review it.

465
00:23:38,825 --> 00:23:40,625
We reviewed it as if it was a sign

466
00:23:40,775 --> 00:23:44,385
because we had no specific language for architectural

467
00:23:45,325 --> 00:23:47,005
features of solar farms.

468
00:23:47,025 --> 00:23:49,485
So that would be within our, our jurisdiction.

469
00:23:56,185 --> 00:23:58,325
And I'm not saying that the rest of it shouldn't be,

470
00:23:59,745 --> 00:24:01,485
we could encourage our, our brethren in,

471
00:24:01,585 --> 00:24:03,365
in code enforcement to take a look at it.

472
00:24:03,385 --> 00:24:04,525
But that's long term.

473
00:24:06,835 --> 00:24:09,085
Okay. And it's something I wouldn't think would take

474
00:24:09,105 --> 00:24:12,325
too long to review of maybe a couple of months.

475
00:24:12,805 --> 00:24:14,965
Three, two or three public hearings.

476
00:24:16,935 --> 00:24:17,225
Okay.

477
00:24:23,245 --> 00:24:26,425
So update the timeline on non-conforming use.

478
00:24:26,875 --> 00:24:29,145
Where did, where did that come from?

479
00:24:29,335 --> 00:24:34,065
That came from me. So the whole purpose of

480
00:24:35,375 --> 00:24:39,505
when we look at uses and we remove uses from zones, it's

481
00:24:39,505 --> 00:24:42,825
because we don't really want those uses

482
00:24:43,445 --> 00:24:44,625
in the zone anymore.

483
00:24:45,565 --> 00:24:50,265
And I think allowing something,

484
00:24:51,805 --> 00:24:53,425
if the use lapses

485
00:24:53,845 --> 00:24:58,425
and then you have 365 days to reestablish it.

486
00:24:58,425 --> 00:25:00,665
Like we're just promoting the continuation

487
00:25:00,665 --> 00:25:04,185
of non-conforming uses by allowing that 12 month period.

488
00:25:04,965 --> 00:25:09,385
So I would ask that we reduce that down to, you know,

489
00:25:09,385 --> 00:25:11,825
maybe three to six months or

490
00:25:12,045 --> 00:25:13,045
Six months.

491
00:25:13,045 --> 00:25:14,145
Well, I mean it's the same period.

492
00:25:14,165 --> 00:25:17,145
If your, your house burns and it's a non-conforming house

493
00:25:17,145 --> 00:25:19,225
and you get to reconstructed on the same footprint,

494
00:25:20,215 --> 00:25:22,065
That would, that falls under a,

495
00:25:22,225 --> 00:25:23,625
a slightly different provision

496
00:25:23,625 --> 00:25:26,505
and not that's non-conforming structures

497
00:25:27,645 --> 00:25:28,865
as opposed to uses.

498
00:25:29,805 --> 00:25:31,065
You don't think a habit dasher

499
00:25:31,065 --> 00:25:32,265
is gonna come in anytime soon?

500
00:25:33,285 --> 00:25:35,265
We would probably no habit dasher,

501
00:25:35,285 --> 00:25:38,225
but I think, well we'd probably, we'd probably say that was

502
00:25:39,285 --> 00:25:41,145
retail sales at this point.

503
00:25:41,215 --> 00:25:43,625
Yeah. 'cause we've combined all those uses under that.

504
00:25:43,945 --> 00:25:45,585
I gotcha. That one thing.

505
00:25:46,165 --> 00:25:50,625
But say for example, you have a, in one

506
00:25:50,625 --> 00:25:53,385
of our residential, well no, that would be a bad example.

507
00:26:01,145 --> 00:26:02,785
Hmm. I'm trying to think of a specific use

508
00:26:02,785 --> 00:26:04,025
where we were like, nope, remove it.

509
00:26:05,815 --> 00:26:08,025
Well, I, I know that when we make changes

510
00:26:08,245 --> 00:26:09,985
to uses in districts, we,

511
00:26:10,485 --> 00:26:12,145
we think we are doing the right thing.

512
00:26:12,775 --> 00:26:14,385
Typically it's

513
00:26:14,425 --> 00:26:18,145
after some sort of public input could be just a public

514
00:26:18,145 --> 00:26:21,025
hearing or it could be the extensive, you know, charettes

515
00:26:21,025 --> 00:26:23,745
and whatnot that we did for the CBD

516
00:26:25,045 --> 00:26:29,825
or for the, the two four A zones, the industrial two

517
00:26:29,885 --> 00:26:31,825
and neighborhood commercial and whatnot.

518
00:26:31,825 --> 00:26:35,985
Right. But on the other hand,

519
00:26:36,605 --> 00:26:38,785
grandfathering and land use rates are kind

520
00:26:38,785 --> 00:26:40,065
of a sacro stat thing.

521
00:26:41,565 --> 00:26:44,165
So I'm a little

522
00:26:45,715 --> 00:26:49,685
anxious about remove, shortening the,

523
00:26:50,465 --> 00:26:54,165
the duration of grandfathering just for uses

524
00:26:54,165 --> 00:26:57,365
that we've decided to remove in a, in a zoning revision.

525
00:26:57,485 --> 00:26:59,245
I don't, I don't know whether that's

526
00:27:02,685 --> 00:27:04,485
I raising any constitutional issues,

527
00:27:04,705 --> 00:27:07,645
but that's kind of where my mind is going.

528
00:27:08,505 --> 00:27:10,965
Anyone else have thoughts pro or con?

529
00:27:12,825 --> 00:27:14,165
No. If we could take a look at the list

530
00:27:14,225 --> 00:27:16,805
and if it makes sense to, to purge him.

531
00:27:16,825 --> 00:27:20,845
We, we, we should. I mean, I get what you're saying.

532
00:27:20,845 --> 00:27:23,875
If it's a, if it's a use that we've got in place

533
00:27:24,055 --> 00:27:26,715
but we don't want any more of it, that's one thing.

534
00:27:26,775 --> 00:27:28,955
But if you are looking at the list of permitted uses,

535
00:27:28,955 --> 00:27:30,755
then it doesn't make sense.

536
00:27:30,815 --> 00:27:32,635
And I don't know, I haven't really looked at 'em.

537
00:27:33,415 --> 00:27:35,895
So, but if they're,

538
00:27:36,435 --> 00:27:38,815
and I'm just using it as an example video store.

539
00:27:38,925 --> 00:27:41,015
Well, they're on no more video stores.

540
00:27:41,075 --> 00:27:42,455
So you can purge that kind of stuff.

541
00:27:43,275 --> 00:27:45,815
No, no, I'm not talking about changing the ordinance

542
00:27:45,815 --> 00:27:48,375
because a use is no longer

543
00:27:49,125 --> 00:27:51,295
important or utilized.

544
00:27:51,435 --> 00:27:53,495
I'm, I'm talking about you got a video store,

545
00:27:55,475 --> 00:27:58,575
we zone it out, you're running it for six months

546
00:27:59,395 --> 00:28:01,735
and then you have a fire

547
00:28:02,835 --> 00:28:04,375
and then you, you're gonna rebuild it

548
00:28:04,375 --> 00:28:05,735
and you're gonna continue to run your store.

549
00:28:06,275 --> 00:28:10,255
Should you have a smaller grandfathering time

550
00:28:10,675 --> 00:28:11,775
to restore that business.

551
00:28:11,805 --> 00:28:15,775
Just because we had recently enacted to take it out

552
00:28:15,775 --> 00:28:20,215
of the allowed uses as opposed to other natural

553
00:28:20,765 --> 00:28:21,975
ways that that might happen.

554
00:28:23,625 --> 00:28:26,155
Okay. So, so I'm thinking more for an example,

555
00:28:26,155 --> 00:28:28,355
like say in our neighborhood commercial district,

556
00:28:28,655 --> 00:28:31,435
we had an auto sales use in neighborhood commercial

557
00:28:32,545 --> 00:28:34,155
when we redistrict

558
00:28:34,335 --> 00:28:37,235
and we created that district, we looked really hard at

559
00:28:37,265 --> 00:28:39,475
what we wanted the character to look like there.

560
00:28:40,255 --> 00:28:44,995
And if someone had that on their property

561
00:28:45,375 --> 00:28:49,715
and then they abandoned the use, anyone

562
00:28:50,735 --> 00:28:55,515
coming in could reestablish that use within a year.

563
00:28:56,375 --> 00:28:59,945
But that, I guess my point is that

564
00:29:00,455 --> 00:29:03,585
when we make zoning changes like that where we're trying to,

565
00:29:05,365 --> 00:29:09,865
to save or maintain a certain character

566
00:29:09,865 --> 00:29:12,465
or doing something like that and we specifically remove the

567
00:29:12,465 --> 00:29:15,545
use because it's contrary to what we're, what the vision was

568
00:29:15,565 --> 00:29:17,745
or what the town wanted or what the residents wanted.

569
00:29:18,385 --> 00:29:22,945
I think we need, it would just, it,

570
00:29:22,975 --> 00:29:25,185
it's hard because sometimes we have uses

571
00:29:25,185 --> 00:29:27,625
that are are coming in that are just not suitable

572
00:29:28,245 --> 00:29:32,185
and they are, you know, that wouldn't be suitable.

573
00:29:32,255 --> 00:29:35,265
Like to have someone come in on the 364th day

574
00:29:35,265 --> 00:29:36,905
and be like, yep, I'm, I'm,

575
00:29:37,005 --> 00:29:40,185
I'm bringing in my six used cars on this, you know,

576
00:29:41,175 --> 00:29:42,525
0.25 acre lot

577
00:29:42,555 --> 00:29:45,405
because we wanted to, we specifically said, no,

578
00:29:45,405 --> 00:29:46,565
we don't want that there.

579
00:29:48,025 --> 00:29:49,005
So that, that's really what

580
00:29:49,005 --> 00:29:50,365
I'm kind of trying, trying to say. I understand

581
00:29:50,365 --> 00:29:51,485
That's the, that's the hand of government

582
00:29:51,485 --> 00:29:52,525
running enforce a vision.

583
00:29:52,795 --> 00:29:55,645
Yeah. I'm kind of think from the point of view of a,

584
00:29:55,845 --> 00:30:00,405
a businessman who maybe yeah, it's a sole proprietorship and

585
00:30:00,465 --> 00:30:03,805
and that's their retirement nest egg to sell their operating

586
00:30:04,725 --> 00:30:08,325
business and move into retirement in Florida, for example.

587
00:30:08,515 --> 00:30:11,525
Sure. And maybe they have some health issues so that the,

588
00:30:11,665 --> 00:30:14,605
the business is not actually operating

589
00:30:14,665 --> 00:30:17,525
but is, is actively listed for sale.

590
00:30:18,365 --> 00:30:21,285
Sometimes it may take a year to sell a business.

591
00:30:21,985 --> 00:30:26,405
If we decrease the time allowed

592
00:30:26,985 --> 00:30:30,725
to culminate that sale, we are effectively

593
00:30:32,765 --> 00:30:36,405
emptying that poor guy's retirement piggy bank. Okay.

594
00:30:37,105 --> 00:30:38,805
It, So I, I think we have to think about those,

595
00:30:39,205 --> 00:30:40,965
those potential side effects as well.

596
00:30:41,235 --> 00:30:43,805
Okay. It's just a, these are suggestions

597
00:30:43,865 --> 00:30:45,725
and the board doesn't have to take any of them.

598
00:30:46,225 --> 00:30:47,925
So we could take it off the list if

599
00:30:47,925 --> 00:30:49,005
there's a strong objection.

600
00:30:49,365 --> 00:30:50,405
I mean, now that you bring that up and,

601
00:30:50,505 --> 00:30:52,165
and we had some discussion about water

602
00:30:52,185 --> 00:30:53,605
and sew going up Ryan Hill.

603
00:30:54,465 --> 00:30:56,485
Now, one of the purposes that we brought water

604
00:30:56,485 --> 00:30:58,285
and sewer up there is to change

605
00:30:58,315 --> 00:31:00,285
that commercial landscape a little bit

606
00:31:01,115 --> 00:31:04,965
because everyone knows that's, if you run up Ryan's hill,

607
00:31:05,105 --> 00:31:06,685
you see a lot of these car lots

608
00:31:06,685 --> 00:31:09,965
because that's, that will go, that's probably the highest

609
00:31:09,965 --> 00:31:10,965
and best use there.

610
00:31:11,065 --> 00:31:12,365
But when you bring water

611
00:31:12,545 --> 00:31:16,005
and sewer in, that's a whole different ballgame.

612
00:31:16,145 --> 00:31:19,445
You know, and, and I mean I think it benefits those people,

613
00:31:19,445 --> 00:31:21,645
those business owners that they could resell

614
00:31:21,645 --> 00:31:24,045
that property into a higher and better use.

615
00:31:24,705 --> 00:31:26,085
Oh, absolutely. I mean I, I,

616
00:31:27,305 --> 00:31:30,165
I'm a hundred percent in favor of the carrot approach to

617
00:31:31,085 --> 00:31:34,765
incentivized folks to use more appropriate uses.

618
00:31:35,185 --> 00:31:36,885
I'm just a little leery of the stick.

619
00:31:38,255 --> 00:31:42,045
Especially in a case where there's a pending in retirement,

620
00:31:42,175 --> 00:31:43,245
maybe some health issues.

621
00:31:43,275 --> 00:31:45,925
They, they have it actively listed with a business broker

622
00:31:45,945 --> 00:31:47,285
to sell it as an operating business

623
00:31:47,425 --> 00:31:49,605
or at least a business with a book of customers.

624
00:31:51,505 --> 00:31:55,325
How long that should go on, I don't know,

625
00:31:56,455 --> 00:31:58,965
would be nice to get information from,

626
00:31:58,965 --> 00:32:00,605
from somebody in that industry.

627
00:32:00,705 --> 00:32:02,885
You know how Yeah. If, if you haven't sold your business

628
00:32:02,885 --> 00:32:04,125
after six months, is it never gonna

629
00:32:04,125 --> 00:32:05,205
sell? I don't know. Yeah,

630
00:32:05,205 --> 00:32:06,205
It, it, yeah.

631
00:32:06,205 --> 00:32:07,725
I guess it would depend on the market at the time.

632
00:32:08,745 --> 00:32:11,605
And I guess, you know, in that case, you know, if,

633
00:32:11,825 --> 00:32:14,365
if they were in a case like that, if they were trying

634
00:32:14,365 --> 00:32:19,165
to sell it and it was 13 months later as the,

635
00:32:19,345 --> 00:32:21,005
the way the ordinance reads now,

636
00:32:21,025 --> 00:32:22,445
we would send them for a variance.

637
00:32:22,595 --> 00:32:26,245
Yeah. Yeah. I mean they do have to be rules

638
00:32:26,545 --> 00:32:27,925
And that would be part of their hardship

639
00:32:27,925 --> 00:32:28,925
Case.

640
00:32:30,545 --> 00:32:32,125
So Yeah, I guess that's, we're just asking

641
00:32:32,145 --> 00:32:33,245
to shorten that a little bit.

642
00:32:33,385 --> 00:32:34,525
We can take it off the table.

643
00:32:34,955 --> 00:32:36,805
Well, let's put it at the bottom of the list

644
00:32:36,825 --> 00:32:39,045
and then maybe give it some more thought,

645
00:32:39,245 --> 00:32:41,605
a little more research on what other communities do.

646
00:32:43,165 --> 00:32:44,365
I don't want dairy to be the,

647
00:32:45,315 --> 00:32:47,215
the bad guys in, in the state, but,

648
00:32:47,565 --> 00:32:48,565
Okay.

649
00:32:48,565 --> 00:32:50,975
So I'll adjust it to the timeframe would be long term

650
00:32:50,995 --> 00:32:52,095
and a low priority.

651
00:32:53,645 --> 00:32:55,455
Okay. Okay. I I won't take it off.

652
00:32:55,535 --> 00:32:57,015
I wouldn't take it off the list, but we No,

653
00:32:57,015 --> 00:32:59,375
But we'll, we'll make it a lesser priority. You

654
00:32:59,375 --> 00:33:00,175
Should probably have a stronger

655
00:33:00,455 --> 00:33:01,775
consensus on it before we move forward.

656
00:33:01,775 --> 00:33:03,695
Well, I'm a little bit concerned you're moving it from

657
00:33:03,695 --> 00:33:05,255
short term to long term

658
00:33:06,515 --> 00:33:08,415
if you're gonna bump it out to study it more.

659
00:33:08,415 --> 00:33:10,215
Maybe midterm. Maybe midterm.

660
00:33:10,765 --> 00:33:14,695
Okay. Well it's not really, so I felt long term meant

661
00:33:14,715 --> 00:33:16,375
how long it took to execute it.

662
00:33:17,175 --> 00:33:18,615
Priority is when we, when we get to it, right?

663
00:33:19,645 --> 00:33:21,535
Yeah. Yeah. So we're not changing the timeframe,

664
00:33:21,535 --> 00:33:22,695
we're just changing the priority.

665
00:33:23,725 --> 00:33:25,135
Okay. We can do that. Okay.

666
00:33:28,195 --> 00:33:29,655
And if we, you know, get to the bottom

667
00:33:29,655 --> 00:33:30,855
of the list, we get to the bottom of the list.

668
00:33:31,195 --> 00:33:34,135
Yay. Okay. Yay us.

669
00:33:38,475 --> 00:33:40,975
The next one is, is Tiny home cottage court

670
00:33:40,975 --> 00:33:42,575
ordinance or requirements?

671
00:33:45,485 --> 00:33:47,375
Well, I mean, this is topical.

672
00:33:49,015 --> 00:33:52,335
Everyone in the state is champion championing

673
00:33:53,605 --> 00:33:54,735
housing opportunities.

674
00:33:56,515 --> 00:33:58,375
So it's probably time for us to take a look at this.

675
00:33:58,655 --> 00:34:00,815
Although there are probably some members of the board

676
00:34:00,815 --> 00:34:03,655
who remember when we tried to do cluster zoning

677
00:34:03,675 --> 00:34:06,015
and it got Yeah, we got pummeled.

678
00:34:07,405 --> 00:34:08,695
Yeah. So,

679
00:34:09,795 --> 00:34:12,295
But the interesting thing is, as time goes along,

680
00:34:12,565 --> 00:34:14,775
like back in the eighties, early nineties,

681
00:34:15,095 --> 00:34:17,255
everyone wanted a three acre wat they

682
00:34:17,255 --> 00:34:18,375
didn't wanna see their neighbor.

683
00:34:18,595 --> 00:34:19,855
Now you're looking at subdivisions

684
00:34:19,855 --> 00:34:21,775
because the cost of land is so expensive,

685
00:34:22,435 --> 00:34:24,655
you're seeing these new subdivisions with,

686
00:34:24,675 --> 00:34:27,455
you can see the homes closer, like the traditional seventies

687
00:34:28,745 --> 00:34:29,935
style of subdivision.

688
00:34:32,315 --> 00:34:34,975
So I think as time changes, you're gonna see that.

689
00:34:35,035 --> 00:34:36,975
The interesting thing about the tiny homes is that,

690
00:34:36,975 --> 00:34:40,295
you know, I'm interested in looking at, was it,

691
00:34:40,295 --> 00:34:41,495
is it Chester or Raymond

692
00:34:42,295 --> 00:34:44,815
Chester's having, having a little pushback

693
00:34:45,445 --> 00:34:47,175
Community, a lot of back, but I'm just curious as

694
00:34:47,175 --> 00:34:48,975
to why the whys of that.

695
00:34:49,475 --> 00:34:52,895
Is it because, and there's a lot of this

696
00:34:52,895 --> 00:34:54,095
that needs to get done at the,

697
00:34:54,205 --> 00:34:56,815
What they said is it was the location of it.

698
00:34:56,815 --> 00:35:00,375
It was in a, a historical agricultural district

699
00:35:00,375 --> 00:35:02,815
and it would disrupt the, the farming community.

700
00:35:02,845 --> 00:35:03,845
It's right near their center.

701
00:35:04,095 --> 00:35:05,535
Chester. Although the, the proponent

702
00:35:05,535 --> 00:35:10,095
of this is Chester's chance to shed itself of the,

703
00:35:10,155 --> 00:35:12,815
the title of poster boy for snob zoning.

704
00:35:13,405 --> 00:35:16,295
Yeah. Well, Chester got sued already time a

705
00:35:16,295 --> 00:35:17,295
While ago.

706
00:35:17,295 --> 00:35:20,175
Yeah. But I thought we were gonna look into maybe doing

707
00:35:20,175 --> 00:35:23,975
like a little field trip into a town

708
00:35:23,975 --> 00:35:26,255
or city that's actually doing these successfully.

709
00:35:26,555 --> 00:35:28,735
Yep. And we can, we can make that part of the,

710
00:35:29,285 --> 00:35:30,455
part of that whole process just

711
00:35:30,455 --> 00:35:31,455
So we can take a look at it.

712
00:35:31,455 --> 00:35:33,895
Because I think I, I,

713
00:35:33,975 --> 00:35:37,015
I mean being in the real estate business, I was kind

714
00:35:37,085 --> 00:35:39,765
of shocked to find out Rockingham County average home is

715
00:35:39,765 --> 00:35:41,245
like 750,000.

716
00:35:41,435 --> 00:35:42,885
It's getting crazy.

717
00:35:44,265 --> 00:35:46,925
And the younger generation just can't, they,

718
00:35:46,925 --> 00:35:47,965
they can't buy anything.

719
00:35:48,865 --> 00:35:50,685
And so something's gotta be done. I

720
00:35:50,685 --> 00:35:53,285
Do think that anything that is related to

721
00:35:54,495 --> 00:35:56,365
affordable homes, whether it's tiny homes

722
00:35:56,545 --> 00:36:00,005
or workforce housing or, you know, rent controlled housing

723
00:36:00,025 --> 00:36:03,565
or whatever it might be, probably is very topical.

724
00:36:03,565 --> 00:36:06,845
And, and we gotta look at it sometime this year, right?

725
00:36:06,945 --> 00:36:08,045
Yes. I think

726
00:36:08,745 --> 00:36:09,745
Mr.

727
00:36:09,745 --> 00:36:10,725
Chair. Yeah, Mr. Go O'Connor. I,

728
00:36:10,845 --> 00:36:12,325
I happen to get the copy of the

729
00:36:12,985 --> 00:36:17,605
New Hampshire Business Week and that's almost every month.

730
00:36:17,605 --> 00:36:19,805
There's a huge article regarding this here.

731
00:36:20,175 --> 00:36:23,725
Especially a lot of them, like Dartmouth Hospital,

732
00:36:24,565 --> 00:36:27,565
they're building all these tiny houses for their workforce.

733
00:36:28,155 --> 00:36:30,365
Took them in Rochester about a year

734
00:36:30,365 --> 00:36:32,725
and a half ago, one of the nursing homes,

735
00:36:32,725 --> 00:36:34,885
private nursing homes, the guy

736
00:36:34,885 --> 00:36:38,125
and his wife developed 30 of the townhouses.

737
00:36:38,625 --> 00:36:40,285
In addition to that in the center.

738
00:36:40,785 --> 00:36:45,645
He also put in near a kindergarten. He had to, I

739
00:36:45,645 --> 00:36:47,445
Thought there was also happening in, in Dover.

740
00:36:48,145 --> 00:36:50,445
So those people are thinking outside the box

741
00:36:50,445 --> 00:36:53,245
because the, for instance, shortage of nurses, right?

742
00:36:53,945 --> 00:36:55,205
So how do you attract the nurses?

743
00:36:55,205 --> 00:36:57,405
Because there, there's not enough to go around.

744
00:36:57,865 --> 00:36:59,565
So these, these industries

745
00:36:59,585 --> 00:37:01,925
and these people are thinking outside the box, okay,

746
00:37:01,935 --> 00:37:03,485
we'll we'll actually pay for housing.

747
00:37:03,905 --> 00:37:05,685
That's a benefit. You wanna work over here,

748
00:37:06,905 --> 00:37:08,645
But the manufacturing, Then you get reduced housing.

749
00:37:08,785 --> 00:37:11,445
That's just smart thinking and outside the box thinking.

750
00:37:11,565 --> 00:37:13,165
I don't know how that applies to dairy

751
00:37:13,585 --> 00:37:15,005
unless Parkland does something.

752
00:37:15,165 --> 00:37:16,525
I don't know. And I don't know if

753
00:37:16,525 --> 00:37:17,605
there's a need over there, but,

754
00:37:18,105 --> 00:37:22,205
But that also includes manufacturing is also getting

755
00:37:22,525 --> 00:37:23,605
involved with that too.

756
00:37:24,105 --> 00:37:26,245
So you'll see a lot more of that coming forward.

757
00:37:26,965 --> 00:37:29,365
Yeah. And child, another, another issue.

758
00:37:29,945 --> 00:37:32,205
Yes. Okay.

759
00:37:33,115 --> 00:37:35,485
Okay. So I think, I think that and,

760
00:37:35,505 --> 00:37:36,845
and the, you know, number three

761
00:37:36,865 --> 00:37:41,085
and number six probably we call 'em medium.

762
00:37:41,805 --> 00:37:43,045
I would call 'em maybe medium high.

763
00:37:43,705 --> 00:37:46,085
That's what I did. Medium different mediums.

764
00:37:46,425 --> 00:37:50,005
And then the next one is add requirements

765
00:37:50,005 --> 00:37:51,725
for travel trailers and temporary storage

766
00:37:52,145 --> 00:37:54,405
to assist code enforcement. What is

767
00:37:54,405 --> 00:37:55,405
That?

768
00:37:55,405 --> 00:37:57,605
Oh, that was a request from our code enforcement officer.

769
00:37:58,005 --> 00:38:01,995
I can work, there are

770
00:38:03,415 --> 00:38:07,915
travel trailers that are staying for longer periods of time.

771
00:38:07,915 --> 00:38:11,155
People are using them as almost ADUs on the property. I've

772
00:38:11,155 --> 00:38:12,155
Seen them in Manchester.

773
00:38:12,155 --> 00:38:15,355
And there are also temporary storage containers

774
00:38:15,355 --> 00:38:17,675
that are becoming permanent storage containers.

775
00:38:17,735 --> 00:38:20,155
But there's no, there's nothing in our ordinance

776
00:38:20,215 --> 00:38:21,435
to help with enforcement

777
00:38:22,575 --> 00:38:23,575
Now.

778
00:38:23,575 --> 00:38:25,915
Hmm. Okay. I see a lot of these pods.

779
00:38:26,815 --> 00:38:28,835
And that's what's saying there's actually one

780
00:38:28,835 --> 00:38:29,875
off to route 28.

781
00:38:29,895 --> 00:38:31,515
You go right past it all the time.

782
00:38:32,295 --> 00:38:33,715
And it drives me crazy too.

783
00:38:36,025 --> 00:38:40,595
But this was also, I think balancing between us

784
00:38:40,655 --> 00:38:43,435
and the planning and also code enforcement.

785
00:38:44,335 --> 00:38:46,915
And I know that, that he was pretty busy at the time

786
00:38:46,915 --> 00:38:49,755
because there is a committee that's supposed

787
00:38:49,755 --> 00:38:54,035
to be established to review all these different locations,

788
00:38:54,035 --> 00:38:57,155
which may be distressed or, or have trailers. Because

789
00:38:57,195 --> 00:38:58,235
I know they disbanded the,

790
00:38:58,345 --> 00:39:00,595
they disbanded the property maintenance committee.

791
00:39:01,005 --> 00:39:03,075
Right. Because they had a deal with a couple places

792
00:39:03,795 --> 00:39:05,555
on the street parallel to my street.

793
00:39:05,975 --> 00:39:09,715
And it took them three years to get them

794
00:39:09,715 --> 00:39:11,035
to move that stuff out of there.

795
00:39:11,675 --> 00:39:12,955
So I, I guess I'm a little,

796
00:39:15,255 --> 00:39:16,955
it seems more like a permitting

797
00:39:17,175 --> 00:39:19,715
and code compliance issue than a use issue.

798
00:39:20,355 --> 00:39:23,595
'cause the zoning ordinance is really about uses.

799
00:39:23,755 --> 00:39:25,995
I mean, I don't think we would be able to fix it

800
00:39:25,995 --> 00:39:26,995
with dimensional requirements.

801
00:39:26,995 --> 00:39:28,075
So what else would there be?

802
00:39:29,035 --> 00:39:30,795
I know that, if I remember,

803
00:39:31,095 --> 00:39:32,795
I'm gonna go back 20 years now in Auburn,

804
00:39:33,055 --> 00:39:36,555
but if I remember in Auburn zoning ordinance,

805
00:39:36,615 --> 00:39:40,635
we had provisions in there that said travel trailers could

806
00:39:41,295 --> 00:39:42,635
be on, you know,

807
00:39:42,635 --> 00:39:45,075
you could live in a travel trailer on a property

808
00:39:45,095 --> 00:39:47,435
for X number of months and then you couldn't,

809
00:39:48,375 --> 00:39:49,915
As long as they don't call it a shed.

810
00:39:50,355 --> 00:39:52,355
YY yeah. If you call it a shed now, you're

811
00:39:52,615 --> 00:39:54,915
No, no, like travel trailers, like RV's. Right.

812
00:39:55,015 --> 00:39:57,155
But the owners are gonna say, no, that's not travel.

813
00:39:57,335 --> 00:40:01,275
That's a shed. And then, yeah, so they had, there's

814
00:40:01,275 --> 00:40:05,275
that provision and then there was also for temporary storage

815
00:40:05,415 --> 00:40:09,675
or the, the pods I guess you wanna call them,

816
00:40:09,775 --> 00:40:14,715
or like those freight containers. They those

817
00:40:14,815 --> 00:40:15,815
Are everywhere now.

818
00:40:15,815 --> 00:40:17,115
Yeah. They could be on the property

819
00:40:17,135 --> 00:40:19,275
for like 150 days. They're kind

820
00:40:19,345 --> 00:40:22,355
Just pre pre-manufactured structures. Yep,

821
00:40:22,695 --> 00:40:23,695
Yep.

822
00:40:23,695 --> 00:40:24,515
So they had to be removed

823
00:40:24,565 --> 00:40:27,835
after, if they were, if they were on the property,

824
00:40:27,955 --> 00:40:29,715
I think it was for 120 days,

825
00:40:29,935 --> 00:40:31,435
you could do that without a permit.

826
00:40:31,575 --> 00:40:34,475
But anything over 120 days, you needed a building permit

827
00:40:34,575 --> 00:40:35,755
for it and it got taxed.

828
00:40:35,855 --> 00:40:37,155
But wouldn't that be in the building code?

829
00:40:37,275 --> 00:40:38,675
I mean, is that really in the

830
00:40:38,675 --> 00:40:39,755
zoning ordinance, is what I'm asking?

831
00:40:39,855 --> 00:40:41,195
It was in the zoning ordinance in Auburn.

832
00:40:41,785 --> 00:40:44,475
Yeah. Is that the right place to have put it?

833
00:40:45,745 --> 00:40:46,755
It's not really a use.

834
00:40:47,105 --> 00:40:48,435
Yeah, I mean

835
00:40:49,005 --> 00:40:50,075
Story, you're right. Yeah.

836
00:40:50,365 --> 00:40:52,355
Going back 20 years. So, you know, but,

837
00:40:52,535 --> 00:40:56,395
but this is something that Carrie had asked that we look at

838
00:40:56,655 --> 00:41:00,275
and, you know, maybe we could point this back to Carrie

839
00:41:00,575 --> 00:41:03,515
and she could come up with the draft language

840
00:41:03,515 --> 00:41:06,155
and do the research on it to make sure that it, it's,

841
00:41:06,225 --> 00:41:08,555
it's proper, it's constitutional and all of that.

842
00:41:08,865 --> 00:41:10,875
Yeah. And that the zoning ordinance is the right place.

843
00:41:10,995 --> 00:41:13,915
I I mean, if, if they want to make you take out a building

844
00:41:13,915 --> 00:41:17,195
permit in order to buy a storage container, that's fine.

845
00:41:17,195 --> 00:41:19,235
That, but that's, that's go, you know,

846
00:41:19,235 --> 00:41:20,675
enforcement that's not use

847
00:41:21,305 --> 00:41:22,305
Okay.

848
00:41:22,735 --> 00:41:26,875
As to using an RV for a

849
00:41:27,555 --> 00:41:30,635
permanent residence that's a little more gray,

850
00:41:30,755 --> 00:41:32,515
I guess. Yeah, I've seen,

851
00:41:32,665 --> 00:41:35,205
I've seen one of those in Manchester on Barwell Road

852
00:41:35,755 --> 00:41:38,525
that trailer's the, the travel trailer's been there

853
00:41:38,525 --> 00:41:40,645
for at least three years house.

854
00:41:40,665 --> 00:41:42,485
And then the travel trailer's right on the side

855
00:41:42,745 --> 00:41:45,605
and it's big, it sticks out like a sore thumb.

856
00:41:45,605 --> 00:41:47,125
If I was a neighbor, I would not be happy

857
00:41:50,155 --> 00:41:53,085
because then you got, then you got issues of septic

858
00:41:53,085 --> 00:41:54,405
and all that other stuff, you know?

859
00:41:55,755 --> 00:41:58,685
Yeah. But I mean, I don't wanna give people ideas,

860
00:41:58,785 --> 00:42:02,285
but supposing you claim, Hey, this rv that's my A DU,

861
00:42:04,745 --> 00:42:07,325
Who wants, if it has wheels, it's not an A DUI. Well

862
00:42:08,075 --> 00:42:10,085
There's the whole thing about, you know, mobile homes

863
00:42:10,105 --> 00:42:12,445
and manufactured housing and premium manufactured housing.

864
00:42:12,545 --> 00:42:16,365
In, in the old days you say, well, your home has wheels.

865
00:42:16,365 --> 00:42:18,405
It's a trailer. I think there's been some

866
00:42:18,685 --> 00:42:19,845
revisions in the laws around that.

867
00:42:19,945 --> 00:42:20,945
So

868
00:42:21,265 --> 00:42:22,965
By the way, even if you ask

869
00:42:22,965 --> 00:42:24,525
for an A DU, you have to have it approved.

870
00:42:24,525 --> 00:42:25,765
Right. And then it comes

871
00:42:25,765 --> 00:42:27,605
and we have to say it has to tie into septic.

872
00:42:27,605 --> 00:42:30,325
You, you, you're going through those processes anyway,

873
00:42:30,915 --> 00:42:32,845
side setbacks, all that other stuff.

874
00:42:33,625 --> 00:42:34,925
That's how we have control of that.

875
00:42:35,105 --> 00:42:36,965
Yes. Well, yeah. But those are,

876
00:42:38,615 --> 00:42:39,845
those are not discretionary.

877
00:42:39,845 --> 00:42:43,765
Those are, if you can hook up to the water, you can hook up

878
00:42:43,765 --> 00:42:45,925
to the sewer, you can hook up to all the utilities you want,

879
00:42:46,715 --> 00:42:48,045
then it's a use of, right.

880
00:42:49,305 --> 00:42:51,075
It's not a matter of, oh, it's a use of right.

881
00:42:51,075 --> 00:42:53,915
For 120 days and then it's gone. You see what I'm saying?

882
00:42:56,685 --> 00:42:57,945
I'm just thinking we need

883
00:42:57,945 --> 00:43:00,905
to tread carefully given the current legislative

884
00:43:00,905 --> 00:43:02,945
environment, given the current laws

885
00:43:03,055 --> 00:43:04,425
that have have changed recently,

886
00:43:04,535 --> 00:43:07,305
that dairy doesn't get itself in trouble again. Correct.

887
00:43:07,415 --> 00:43:10,865
Okay. All right.

888
00:43:10,865 --> 00:43:13,185
I'll refer that back to the code enforcement officer.

889
00:43:13,335 --> 00:43:14,865
Yeah. Let, Let her come back with something.

890
00:43:14,935 --> 00:43:15,785
Okay. We'll do that

891
00:43:20,725 --> 00:43:21,865
At a definition of town.

892
00:43:21,885 --> 00:43:24,025
We can do that. I mean, that would probably take 30 seconds.

893
00:43:24,985 --> 00:43:28,665
I think it's implicit because if it's in the town

894
00:43:28,665 --> 00:43:33,065
of dairy zoning ordinance, dairy only has the authority

895
00:43:33,485 --> 00:43:37,305
to invoke the town's permission for the town of Derry.

896
00:43:37,405 --> 00:43:38,985
So I think it's, it's a, it's a gimme,

897
00:43:39,045 --> 00:43:40,065
but I have no problem.

898
00:43:40,245 --> 00:43:43,305
But when we talk about front on a town road are in,

899
00:43:43,485 --> 00:43:46,865
and it's in our, our regulation, are we talking about

900
00:43:47,445 --> 00:43:49,985
IES Road or are we talking about Steads Road

901
00:43:50,045 --> 00:43:51,825
or Salems Road or Atkinson Road?

902
00:43:51,825 --> 00:43:55,745
Oh, yes, yes. That really needs some clarification.

903
00:43:55,885 --> 00:43:59,665
And I guess my question is, if there's access on a,

904
00:44:00,525 --> 00:44:03,845
on know a class five maintained highway,

905
00:44:04,315 --> 00:44:05,605
what do you care what town it's in?

906
00:44:06,655 --> 00:44:08,685
Maybe we don't, I mean,

907
00:44:08,815 --> 00:44:10,685
maybe we should actually look at Yeah.

908
00:44:10,705 --> 00:44:13,005
If that's the driver, maybe we should figure out what the,

909
00:44:13,145 --> 00:44:15,165
the valid public purpose is here, right?

910
00:44:15,315 --> 00:44:16,685
Yeah, yeah, maybe. Yeah.

911
00:44:16,765 --> 00:44:19,485
I, I think there needs to be some clarification on that

912
00:44:19,715 --> 00:44:23,725
because there, there's staff believes when it says town,

913
00:44:23,785 --> 00:44:25,125
it means town of Derry.

914
00:44:25,545 --> 00:44:29,245
And then we're getting pushback from developers and attorney

915
00:44:29,245 --> 00:44:31,645
and they're, and they're saying, no, it means any town,

916
00:44:32,705 --> 00:44:34,645
But we don't have jurisdiction of any town

917
00:44:35,345 --> 00:44:36,765
In, and this is this.

918
00:44:36,905 --> 00:44:40,165
So we go circles with this discussion. Well,

919
00:44:40,195 --> 00:44:41,965
This is only gonna be for, for parcels

920
00:44:41,965 --> 00:44:44,405
that are near town boundary.

921
00:44:45,255 --> 00:44:48,845
Right. For example, you have the house in Derry,

922
00:44:49,025 --> 00:44:51,285
but the curb cut is in Windham, for example.

923
00:44:52,225 --> 00:44:55,005
And we've had a few, Okay, well that, you know, if, if,

924
00:44:55,025 --> 00:44:58,605
if the, the road is sufficient to meet all

925
00:44:58,605 --> 00:45:00,125
of the public safety and all the other

926
00:45:00,915 --> 00:45:03,805
reasons why we have ordinances that says that you have

927
00:45:03,805 --> 00:45:06,605
to have a a, a driver

928
00:45:06,635 --> 00:45:08,965
that emps into a Class five highway.

929
00:45:09,355 --> 00:45:11,245
It's met no matter what town it's in.

930
00:45:12,185 --> 00:45:16,525
So that sounds more like a turf wharf thing than a, a safety

931
00:45:16,585 --> 00:45:19,605
and protection of the residents of, of the home.

932
00:45:20,185 --> 00:45:22,125
And so I, I think we need to think about

933
00:45:22,125 --> 00:45:23,525
what we're trying to regulate there.

934
00:45:24,675 --> 00:45:26,885
Yeah. We had those issues when, when them did

935
00:45:26,885 --> 00:45:28,605
that development, especially with the,

936
00:45:28,625 --> 00:45:29,965
who was gonna do the snowplow

937
00:45:30,105 --> 00:45:32,525
or the cul-de-sac, that one here

938
00:45:32,985 --> 00:45:34,805
and half of us went over the other side.

939
00:45:38,225 --> 00:45:42,035
Yeah. I mean I, I'm familiar with those things.

940
00:45:42,035 --> 00:45:45,235
My, my folks used to own a, a farmhouse at the end of the,

941
00:45:45,755 --> 00:45:47,555
a dirt road in, in, in Croydon.

942
00:45:47,855 --> 00:45:50,395
But it was only accessible through Sope.

943
00:45:50,395 --> 00:45:51,675
So Sope plowed the road.

944
00:45:55,295 --> 00:45:56,355
And was that, was, was,

945
00:45:56,495 --> 00:45:59,475
and they weren't obligated to, I don't know, of course

946
00:45:59,475 --> 00:46:01,755
that was back, once you do that, you, you take a,

947
00:46:01,985 --> 00:46:03,515
that was back when they had road agents.

948
00:46:04,495 --> 00:46:05,715
Yes. So what, what

949
00:46:06,955 --> 00:46:09,555
I understand where the, where the developers are coming

950
00:46:09,555 --> 00:46:11,915
from, if they, they have a large parcel of land,

951
00:46:12,925 --> 00:46:14,145
but it's landlocked in dairy,

952
00:46:14,325 --> 00:46:16,265
but it can be accessed from a neighboring town.

953
00:46:17,205 --> 00:46:21,225
But what that does then is it triggers the definition

954
00:46:21,645 --> 00:46:23,665
of a jurisdiction.

955
00:46:24,595 --> 00:46:26,135
So that town would have to be notified

956
00:46:26,135 --> 00:46:28,375
and they'd have input as to anything that goes on there

957
00:46:28,525 --> 00:46:30,495
besides the fact that it's on the town line.

958
00:46:30,515 --> 00:46:33,295
Oh, absolutely. Or you know, yeah. Regional impact.

959
00:46:35,035 --> 00:46:36,415
But I, I'm, I'm, I'm so,

960
00:46:36,415 --> 00:46:37,415
So they are right.

961
00:46:37,415 --> 00:46:38,895
I mean, just

962
00:46:38,895 --> 00:46:41,775
because the road isn't in dairy, why

963
00:46:42,635 --> 00:46:44,255
is it not viable?

964
00:46:44,605 --> 00:46:47,255
That seems overly punitive. Yes.

965
00:46:48,395 --> 00:46:49,455
So That's the sort

966
00:46:49,455 --> 00:46:51,375
of thing I I think a court could say what,

967
00:46:51,725 --> 00:46:52,815
Yeah, what are you talking about?

968
00:46:52,845 --> 00:46:54,775
It's, it's a, it's a Class five maintained

969
00:46:54,775 --> 00:46:55,855
road by a municipality.

970
00:46:55,955 --> 00:46:59,215
Why can't, you know, why do they have to access

971
00:46:59,215 --> 00:47:01,455
that land from your Class five road that

972
00:47:01,455 --> 00:47:02,455
You local control?

973
00:47:02,455 --> 00:47:03,935
That's what we're asking for clarification on. Yeah.

974
00:47:03,935 --> 00:47:07,215
So that, it's very clear when you read the ordinance,

975
00:47:07,875 --> 00:47:09,735
we are all on the same page right now.

976
00:47:09,755 --> 00:47:11,135
We are not all on the same page.

977
00:47:11,145 --> 00:47:13,055
We're not even in the same book in some instances.

978
00:47:13,315 --> 00:47:15,895
So, I mean, is it, is it, I I don't really know

979
00:47:15,965 --> 00:47:18,415
what the issue is and what would solve it.

980
00:47:18,415 --> 00:47:23,335
Would it, would it solve the

981
00:47:23,335 --> 00:47:27,775
problem in that particular case to have the requirement be

982
00:47:28,295 --> 00:47:30,365
a Class five road as opposed to a town road?

983
00:47:32,105 --> 00:47:34,245
We, we could, we can look at it and,

984
00:47:34,345 --> 00:47:35,405
and look at the wording

985
00:47:35,585 --> 00:47:39,845
and see if it, if it needs to say Town of Derry

986
00:47:39,845 --> 00:47:44,485
or if it needs to say Class five road accepted

987
00:47:44,705 --> 00:47:47,805
by any municipality or

988
00:47:47,805 --> 00:47:48,805
Municipal.

989
00:47:48,805 --> 00:47:50,045
Well it has to be accepted by somebody in order to be

990
00:47:50,235 --> 00:47:51,365
Less by, right, right, right.

991
00:47:51,385 --> 00:47:53,845
But, but just to make sure that we're,

992
00:47:54,055 --> 00:47:56,525
we're clarifying it does not mean just dairy.

993
00:47:56,595 --> 00:47:57,925
Yeah. It could be, let's,

994
00:47:57,925 --> 00:47:58,925
Let's look at it again.

995
00:47:59,045 --> 00:48:00,645
I agree with Mr. Chase that if,

996
00:48:00,645 --> 00:48:02,965
if you have a landlocked parcel in dairy,

997
00:48:03,345 --> 00:48:07,645
but it has good access for a subdivision road

998
00:48:07,995 --> 00:48:11,805
through Windham and we denied the application

999
00:48:12,045 --> 00:48:15,805
'cause it didn't have street access in our town,

1000
00:48:16,085 --> 00:48:18,405
I think the courts would slap us around Silly.

1001
00:48:19,675 --> 00:48:23,645
Yeah. I guess what I said, or was trying to say,

1002
00:48:23,705 --> 00:48:27,605
and I said it very poorly, is, is in that situation,

1003
00:48:29,595 --> 00:48:32,025
clarifying that the town means town

1004
00:48:32,025 --> 00:48:33,825
of Derry doesn't satisfy that.

1005
00:48:35,175 --> 00:48:38,065
Just, just saying, okay, it's the town of Derry.

1006
00:48:38,445 --> 00:48:39,705
How does that solve that issue?

1007
00:48:39,705 --> 00:48:41,945
It doesn't, I think we need to look at it

1008
00:48:42,465 --> 00:48:44,105
a little more in depth

1009
00:48:44,405 --> 00:48:48,025
and come up with language that, like you had suggested that

1010
00:48:49,545 --> 00:48:52,825
a class five road accepted by a municipality is sufficient.

1011
00:48:52,905 --> 00:48:55,465
I, I don't think on its face what we have here,

1012
00:48:55,525 --> 00:48:57,825
add definition to town is gonna solve that issue.

1013
00:48:58,305 --> 00:48:59,785
I think it, it has to be looked at from a

1014
00:48:59,785 --> 00:49:01,545
different perspective. Yeah.

1015
00:49:01,855 --> 00:49:04,785
Okay. And

1016
00:49:04,785 --> 00:49:07,745
unless there's some other context in which, you know,

1017
00:49:08,335 --> 00:49:11,305
town appears in the ordinance that doesn't relate

1018
00:49:11,305 --> 00:49:14,145
to this particular hypothetical we're talking about. Right,

1019
00:49:14,585 --> 00:49:15,585
Right.

1020
00:49:15,585 --> 00:49:17,905
Yeah. Okay, we'll look at it.

1021
00:49:21,575 --> 00:49:24,305
Next one is review the sign ordinance for banner signs

1022
00:49:24,855 --> 00:49:26,665
off-premise and permitting

1023
00:49:32,045 --> 00:49:32,395
Right.

1024
00:49:32,395 --> 00:49:34,915
Authority for the lease of off-premise signs.

1025
00:49:38,225 --> 00:49:39,635
Alright, so is it,

1026
00:49:39,635 --> 00:49:41,075
are you talking about like billboards on

1027
00:49:41,075 --> 00:49:42,875
the, on the highways? What are you talking about?

1028
00:49:43,065 --> 00:49:46,155
Off-premise sign. So for example, Walmart,

1029
00:49:46,805 --> 00:49:49,995
their large pylon sign is an off-premise sign.

1030
00:49:50,025 --> 00:49:51,675
It's not located on their property.

1031
00:49:51,825 --> 00:49:53,675
They have a land lease with Wolf Meow.

1032
00:49:54,935 --> 00:49:59,345
Okay. And there are, we have,

1033
00:50:00,725 --> 00:50:05,425
we there, there are multiple off-premise signs in

1034
00:50:05,455 --> 00:50:08,465
town, like the ones for the Journey Church

1035
00:50:08,565 --> 00:50:11,745
and Palestra, those are not located on the premise.

1036
00:50:12,745 --> 00:50:14,305
They're actually in the DOT right away.

1037
00:50:14,365 --> 00:50:18,745
But, so, you know, things like that.

1038
00:50:19,845 --> 00:50:23,665
So would most of these be part of a, a site plan approval

1039
00:50:25,275 --> 00:50:28,765
Where A conditional rule would be execute a lease,

1040
00:50:29,145 --> 00:50:31,685
you know, for this off-premise sign and it,

1041
00:50:31,685 --> 00:50:33,405
and it can be here, that sort

1042
00:50:33,405 --> 00:50:34,405
Of thing?

1043
00:50:34,405 --> 00:50:35,925
Occasionally, yes. But we do have some provisions

1044
00:50:35,925 --> 00:50:37,965
for off premise signs in the ordinance

1045
00:50:37,965 --> 00:50:39,525
that I think need to be amended

1046
00:50:40,215 --> 00:50:42,285
Where they kind of happen ad hoc a

1047
00:50:42,285 --> 00:50:42,765
Little. Yeah.

1048
00:50:43,355 --> 00:50:44,405
Okay. Mr. Chase.

1049
00:50:44,745 --> 00:50:49,045
So would this also be in relation

1050
00:50:49,065 --> 00:50:51,365
to off-premise signs that advertise

1051
00:50:51,425 --> 00:50:53,045
for other businesses that are

1052
00:50:53,395 --> 00:50:54,725
That too, That too.

1053
00:50:54,725 --> 00:50:56,365
The electronic signs that advertise

1054
00:50:56,465 --> 00:50:57,965
for a business that are is Yes.

1055
00:50:58,065 --> 00:50:59,365
On the other side of town. Yes.

1056
00:50:59,425 --> 00:51:00,845
So it's also part of that too. So there

1057
00:51:00,845 --> 00:51:05,125
Are, there are, or in, there are, so for example,

1058
00:51:05,225 --> 00:51:07,845
on Birch Street, our former,

1059
00:51:08,875 --> 00:51:11,405
your fellow council member had brought that

1060
00:51:11,405 --> 00:51:12,685
to our attention before Mr.

1061
00:51:12,935 --> 00:51:14,005
Healy on Birch Street.

1062
00:51:14,005 --> 00:51:17,605
There are multiple signs on commercial property

1063
00:51:17,605 --> 00:51:20,405
that don't advertise the business that's on that sign.

1064
00:51:20,945 --> 00:51:24,045
So, and I know that we, that we have

1065
00:51:24,265 --> 00:51:25,885
to be d billboards similar.

1066
00:51:25,945 --> 00:51:28,005
It is similar to a billboard That's a D Yeah. Yeah.

1067
00:51:28,025 --> 00:51:29,245
That's a billboard. That's

1068
00:51:29,245 --> 00:51:31,725
A Well, but, but what legally makes a billboard

1069
00:51:32,065 --> 00:51:33,205
not an off premise sign.

1070
00:51:34,205 --> 00:51:35,845
I think in our definition it might be the,

1071
00:51:36,675 --> 00:51:37,735
it might be the definition

1072
00:51:38,435 --> 00:51:41,095
If the billboard sign has nothing to do with the business

1073
00:51:41,095 --> 00:51:42,775
that's on the, on the property.

1074
00:51:42,775 --> 00:51:44,215
Yeah. I think that that's a billboard

1075
00:51:44,215 --> 00:51:45,215
Side.

1076
00:51:45,215 --> 00:51:47,175
Yeah. We would just, we'd just like a chance to look at

1077
00:51:47,175 --> 00:51:48,175
It.

1078
00:51:48,175 --> 00:51:50,215
I'm saying the one that we're talking about on Birt Street,

1079
00:51:50,595 --> 00:51:52,375
why is that not just a small billboard?

1080
00:51:53,485 --> 00:51:55,615
Well, le I, I think technically it probably

1081
00:51:55,615 --> 00:51:56,735
is, but, so this is

1082
00:51:56,735 --> 00:51:57,735
Where I think we get into legal.

1083
00:51:59,835 --> 00:52:01,775
Yep. Mr Chair. Yeah. Mr.

1084
00:52:02,015 --> 00:52:03,295
Connor, your statement that you just made

1085
00:52:03,315 --> 00:52:04,455
is absolutely correct.

1086
00:52:05,085 --> 00:52:08,335
When the Supreme Court ruled on signs,

1087
00:52:09,035 --> 00:52:12,895
it would brought us all out crazy on trying

1088
00:52:12,895 --> 00:52:14,895
to get proper audiences and so forth.

1089
00:52:15,395 --> 00:52:16,935
But it is really in depth.

1090
00:52:17,075 --> 00:52:20,495
So we have to make sure that whatever we do, we need

1091
00:52:20,495 --> 00:52:23,575
to follow the federal laws as written.

1092
00:52:23,875 --> 00:52:27,535
And when we were on that committee, I mean, we went

1093
00:52:27,535 --> 00:52:29,215
through a lot, a lot of work trying

1094
00:52:29,215 --> 00:52:31,015
to put everything in the right pocket.

1095
00:52:31,115 --> 00:52:33,375
And so things have changed over a period of time.

1096
00:52:34,015 --> 00:52:35,815
I just want to be, you know, be cautious

1097
00:52:35,915 --> 00:52:38,815
and arbitrarily saying, we're gonna put this up there

1098
00:52:38,815 --> 00:52:41,535
because we may maybe one of those little things

1099
00:52:41,535 --> 00:52:43,095
that they just say, you can't

1100
00:52:43,095 --> 00:52:44,095
Do that.

1101
00:52:44,095 --> 00:52:44,495
Yeah. 'cause I, I guess what

1102
00:52:45,365 --> 00:52:46,895
Like flags And I'm concerned that,

1103
00:52:46,895 --> 00:52:50,655
that people use the defense, Hey, you know, there's,

1104
00:52:50,655 --> 00:52:53,975
there's billboards on, on, you know,

1105
00:52:53,975 --> 00:52:57,735
bypass 28, 1 of 'em for, you know, my optometrist,

1106
00:52:58,375 --> 00:53:00,375
ophthalmologist, spin Associates.

1107
00:53:00,375 --> 00:53:02,335
Right? So that's a billboard company.

1108
00:53:02,335 --> 00:53:05,455
They rent it to them, they're in the, the, the business

1109
00:53:05,455 --> 00:53:07,735
of advertising and and they either own

1110
00:53:07,735 --> 00:53:09,015
or lease that, that land

1111
00:53:09,015 --> 00:53:10,095
or have an an easement or something.

1112
00:53:10,095 --> 00:53:11,775
Right. It's along the, its long the state

1113
00:53:11,775 --> 00:53:13,415
highway been there 40 years, years.

1114
00:53:14,795 --> 00:53:17,135
How is that fundamentally different than someone

1115
00:53:17,235 --> 00:53:21,175
who has a business, say on Bird Street that decides

1116
00:53:21,175 --> 00:53:23,095
to erect a mini billboard

1117
00:53:23,095 --> 00:53:25,765
and rent it out for advertising as an adjunct

1118
00:53:25,905 --> 00:53:27,245
to whatever their other business is?

1119
00:53:27,885 --> 00:53:29,525
I think we get into a mire if we try

1120
00:53:29,525 --> 00:53:31,205
to say, well that's a billboard.

1121
00:53:31,545 --> 00:53:34,165
And, and that's not because it's, it's kinda like

1122
00:53:34,165 --> 00:53:35,925
what the Supreme Court said about pornography.

1123
00:53:35,925 --> 00:53:37,605
Well I can't define it, but I know it when I see it.

1124
00:53:39,275 --> 00:53:43,645
Yeah, I know it.

1125
00:53:44,065 --> 00:53:47,325
If we could look at it, make sure we're not, you know,

1126
00:53:47,345 --> 00:53:50,205
if we do look at it, we're we're following the constitution.

1127
00:53:50,445 --> 00:53:54,965
'cause we can't, we can't comment on content

1128
00:53:55,435 --> 00:53:57,405
because that would be unconstitutional.

1129
00:53:58,505 --> 00:54:02,725
We could, we can comment on where it is permitted in

1130
00:54:02,725 --> 00:54:04,005
what type of sign it is.

1131
00:54:04,425 --> 00:54:06,125
And Liz, unless I can recall

1132
00:54:06,845 --> 00:54:09,525
NHMA published those books

1133
00:54:10,105 --> 00:54:12,245
and when that was one of the courses, you know, some

1134
00:54:12,245 --> 00:54:15,245
of us attended and it was quite in depth in that.

1135
00:54:15,645 --> 00:54:17,165
So yes. And it may have changed,

1136
00:54:17,585 --> 00:54:18,885
but the, the gist

1137
00:54:18,885 --> 00:54:21,725
of it may still be right there at the meat of it. Okay.

1138
00:54:22,185 --> 00:54:25,085
So we well you have it as long term

1139
00:54:25,145 --> 00:54:26,805
and I think it will take a long time to Yes.

1140
00:54:26,805 --> 00:54:28,405
To sort it through. So, yes. Yeah.

1141
00:54:28,945 --> 00:54:31,325
And well It took us a long time to get through that

1142
00:54:32,385 --> 00:54:33,885
Lot of workshop. I just discuss that with Carrie as well.

1143
00:54:34,765 --> 00:54:37,605
Number 10 was actually one that I suggested.

1144
00:54:37,765 --> 00:54:42,725
'cause we, we have a, a, a requirement in the LDCs for,

1145
00:54:42,725 --> 00:54:46,165
for subdivisions that we have Underground electric

1146
00:54:46,985 --> 00:54:50,485
and kind of carrying water for public service Eversource.

1147
00:54:51,045 --> 00:54:53,045
'cause there's really no public safety issue there.

1148
00:54:53,145 --> 00:54:54,845
It just makes things easier for them.

1149
00:54:55,505 --> 00:54:58,245
And I said, well if we're gonna worry about the public

1150
00:54:58,305 --> 00:55:00,485
safety of individual homeowners,

1151
00:55:00,745 --> 00:55:02,325
why don't we make 'em have turnarounds

1152
00:55:02,325 --> 00:55:03,765
where they're not backing out into traffic.

1153
00:55:04,585 --> 00:55:07,245
Now I think it would've been a good thing 20

1154
00:55:07,245 --> 00:55:09,165
or 30 years ago now that there's not much

1155
00:55:09,925 --> 00:55:11,325
development left to happen.

1156
00:55:11,635 --> 00:55:12,965
It's probably low priority

1157
00:55:13,165 --> 00:55:17,125
'cause you're not gonna affect many subdivisions.

1158
00:55:17,185 --> 00:55:19,565
But I, I always thought it was a good idea.

1159
00:55:23,065 --> 00:55:26,165
Anyone else think it's even worth talking about?

1160
00:55:28,275 --> 00:55:29,645
Well, ones

1161
00:55:30,065 --> 00:55:32,245
The way you have it now, the onus is

1162
00:55:32,285 --> 00:55:33,565
a driveway over so many feet.

1163
00:55:33,595 --> 00:55:34,885
They have to have one anyway.

1164
00:55:35,845 --> 00:55:40,025
Do they? Yeah. If it's over 150 feet, you do need

1165
00:55:40,025 --> 00:55:41,985
to provide an a turnaround

1166
00:55:42,215 --> 00:55:44,305
that can accommodate the fire apparatus.

1167
00:55:44,325 --> 00:55:45,985
Oh well that's for fire. I don't care about

1168
00:55:45,985 --> 00:55:47,065
the fire truck getting hit.

1169
00:55:47,505 --> 00:55:49,865
I care about the poor guy backing out into traffic at, at,

1170
00:55:49,885 --> 00:55:51,105
at commute hour getting hit.

1171
00:55:53,575 --> 00:55:56,705
Okay. Okay. Nevermind. Yes.

1172
00:55:57,575 --> 00:55:57,865
Okay.

1173
00:56:05,285 --> 00:56:06,505
Revamp the zoning ordinance

1174
00:56:06,505 --> 00:56:07,545
to make it easier to understand.

1175
00:56:08,165 --> 00:56:09,385
All the lawyers are gonna come out

1176
00:56:10,085 --> 00:56:11,265
and petition against that.

1177
00:56:13,205 --> 00:56:14,205
Wow.

1178
00:56:14,805 --> 00:56:16,945
That's a, that was a goal from the master plan.

1179
00:56:17,735 --> 00:56:20,545
Yeah. I You could leave it at the bottom of the list.

1180
00:56:20,665 --> 00:56:23,350
I, I, I, okay. I think that might take a year in of itself.

1181
00:56:23,665 --> 00:56:25,405
You know, just getting through blacks dictionary.

1182
00:56:26,045 --> 00:56:28,765
I tried once to kind of,

1183
00:56:29,105 --> 00:56:31,085
not re like keep the words the same

1184
00:56:31,265 --> 00:56:34,405
but you know, format it so it's a little different.

1185
00:56:34,545 --> 00:56:36,125
And maybe you just

1186
00:56:36,985 --> 00:56:38,805
add some things in like our quick reference

1187
00:56:38,825 --> 00:56:40,485
guides to make it easier.

1188
00:56:40,625 --> 00:56:41,685
So you've got your language

1189
00:56:41,705 --> 00:56:42,885
but then you've also got the page

1190
00:56:42,885 --> 00:56:45,405
with a quick reference cut. It's, it's a job.

1191
00:56:45,835 --> 00:56:48,325
Well I mean it, it's an ordinance, right? It it's a law.

1192
00:56:48,515 --> 00:56:52,925
It's without necessarily intentionally sliding

1193
00:56:53,315 --> 00:56:54,325
legislative services.

1194
00:56:54,395 --> 00:56:56,445
Have you seen any laws come outta concor? They easy to read

1195
00:56:57,905 --> 00:56:58,905
And they had done that.

1196
00:56:59,235 --> 00:57:00,235
Yeah.

1197
00:57:01,545 --> 00:57:05,125
So some of it is inherent in the beast. Yes.

1198
00:57:06,765 --> 00:57:10,685
I do think it is maybe exacerbated by the number

1199
00:57:10,685 --> 00:57:12,765
of times you need to go flipping to the definitions.

1200
00:57:13,005 --> 00:57:14,045
'cause the words aren't necessarily

1201
00:57:14,355 --> 00:57:15,725
what you might think they mean.

1202
00:57:15,725 --> 00:57:16,805
They have special meanings

1203
00:57:18,585 --> 00:57:21,925
and our level of Microsoft word, you know,

1204
00:57:21,925 --> 00:57:23,125
paragraph indentation

1205
00:57:23,125 --> 00:57:25,005
and numbering is a little,

1206
00:57:27,305 --> 00:57:28,485
in some cases obnoxious.

1207
00:57:29,445 --> 00:57:30,805
I think it could, could be. I think the

1208
00:57:30,805 --> 00:57:31,885
text could be flattened.

1209
00:57:32,765 --> 00:57:33,765
I don't know if that makes it easier to do.

1210
00:57:33,945 --> 00:57:35,925
Run it through AI would be all set. Hmm.

1211
00:57:36,305 --> 00:57:37,525
Run it through ai. Yeah.

1212
00:57:38,285 --> 00:57:39,765
I got a claw account. I can fix it.

1213
00:57:42,995 --> 00:57:44,405
Just throw our ordinance in chat

1214
00:57:44,485 --> 00:57:46,325
GPT and see what comes back. Yeah.

1215
00:57:46,395 --> 00:57:47,925
Alright. So that would be

1216
00:57:47,925 --> 00:57:51,005
A-A-A-A-A, not a low hanging fruit.

1217
00:57:51,235 --> 00:57:52,005
Okay. All

1218
00:57:57,115 --> 00:57:58,115
Next one.

1219
00:57:58,115 --> 00:57:58,965
12. Create language

1220
00:57:59,105 --> 00:58:01,925
for unscreened dumpsters in high visibility areas.

1221
00:58:01,925 --> 00:58:03,765
Yeah, this was my request. Okay.

1222
00:58:04,745 --> 00:58:06,725
So that, that's Like my turnaround thing.

1223
00:58:07,595 --> 00:58:11,845
Exactly. But I don't know I'm anyone else seen,

1224
00:58:12,195 --> 00:58:13,405
seen some of these examples.

1225
00:58:14,075 --> 00:58:16,765
Yeah, you could see it on Elm Street on a residential

1226
00:58:17,045 --> 00:58:19,405
property where the dumpster is like almost in the road.

1227
00:58:19,705 --> 00:58:21,045
You can drive into crowd. It just looks

1228
00:58:21,045 --> 00:58:22,565
like crap to be honest. So

1229
00:58:22,565 --> 00:58:23,565
Here's here's the thing.

1230
00:58:25,265 --> 00:58:27,645
Our, we, we can't do site review on,

1231
00:58:27,745 --> 00:58:30,405
on residential properties unless they're multifamily.

1232
00:58:32,135 --> 00:58:34,005
Which case they're really treated as commercial.

1233
00:58:36,025 --> 00:58:37,045
If, if a single

1234
00:58:37,585 --> 00:58:42,125
or duplex home has a dumpster sitting in the front yard,

1235
00:58:42,325 --> 00:58:43,485
I don't think we're allowed to

1236
00:58:43,845 --> 00:58:44,845
Regulate that.

1237
00:58:44,845 --> 00:58:45,045
I don't think we, I don't think I've seen

1238
00:58:45,045 --> 00:58:46,045
That. Not the planning board. I

1239
00:58:46,045 --> 00:58:47,045
Haven't seen any examples of that.

1240
00:58:47,265 --> 00:58:49,845
Oh, I've seen is is commercial If you, if you drive up

1241
00:58:50,695 --> 00:58:52,915
by the five guys Yes.

1242
00:58:53,055 --> 00:58:55,555
Behind there you got three, three dumpsters

1243
00:58:55,555 --> 00:58:57,715
and you got an oil grease container there.

1244
00:58:57,715 --> 00:58:58,955
Yep. So here it's like in plain

1245
00:58:58,955 --> 00:59:00,075
sight that should be screened.

1246
00:59:00,215 --> 00:59:03,475
Here's the thing. We get one bite of the apple to enforce

1247
00:59:03,475 --> 00:59:05,315
that when they come for approval.

1248
00:59:05,795 --> 00:59:09,275
I understand. I'm just saying as it comes in front of us,

1249
00:59:09,375 --> 00:59:11,995
we should be more cognizant of these businesses.

1250
00:59:12,655 --> 00:59:14,435
We do, I've not seen any plans

1251
00:59:14,435 --> 00:59:16,875
where there were notes about screening of the dumpsters.

1252
00:59:16,875 --> 00:59:18,715
It's probably all the ones that happened 20 years ago.

1253
00:59:19,185 --> 00:59:20,835
Well, I don't think there's anybody looking,

1254
00:59:20,965 --> 00:59:23,205
pulling out plans for five guys

1255
00:59:23,705 --> 00:59:26,365
to see if originally the plan came out and it was screened.

1256
00:59:26,955 --> 00:59:29,205
Well we're not doing that. I don't think. Building,

1257
00:59:29,585 --> 00:59:30,565
If you wanted to enforce

1258
00:59:30,565 --> 00:59:31,845
it, that's kind of what you'd have to do. Well

1259
00:59:31,845 --> 00:59:32,845
That's code enforcement.

1260
00:59:32,845 --> 00:59:35,165
But I, we're a town, I mean we're so big

1261
00:59:35,165 --> 00:59:37,125
and that's one of the reasons why I, you know,

1262
00:59:37,125 --> 00:59:40,245
I lobbied the, the council to get an extra person

1263
00:59:40,345 --> 00:59:42,925
for code enforcement, which they, they did.

1264
00:59:42,925 --> 00:59:45,605
Which is great. But you know, a town of 35,000,

1265
00:59:46,915 --> 00:59:48,615
you know, to get that stuff kind.

1266
00:59:48,795 --> 00:59:51,775
If you look at the LDCs for, for site plan review

1267
00:59:51,775 --> 00:59:54,015
for commercial, they, there probably is already language

1268
00:59:54,015 --> 00:59:55,415
about screening of dumpsters.

1269
00:59:55,995 --> 00:59:59,415
And so all the new ones have it, all the ones

1270
00:59:59,415 --> 01:00:01,495
that didn't have it.

1271
01:00:01,695 --> 01:00:03,135
'cause it wasn't in the language back then.

1272
01:00:03,635 --> 01:00:05,575
But how do we know is what my point is.

1273
01:00:06,165 --> 01:00:08,855
Well that's a, that's not the planning board's job, Brian.

1274
01:00:09,475 --> 01:00:12,295
That's cool. We don't actually have jurisdiction to go

1275
01:00:12,295 --> 01:00:16,415
and tell someone, Hey, you should screen your dumpster.

1276
01:00:16,685 --> 01:00:19,335
Well where does it say that in my plan approval?

1277
01:00:19,365 --> 01:00:20,935
Well it doesn't, but it should have.

1278
01:00:21,085 --> 01:00:24,495
Well, well, I mean I'm going, I'm a way back person.

1279
01:00:24,655 --> 01:00:26,495
I I remember when we had Victory Supermarket

1280
01:00:27,085 --> 01:00:28,695
back in the day on planning board, right?

1281
01:00:28,695 --> 01:00:30,215
Yeah. And we were doing, we were screening

1282
01:00:30,215 --> 01:00:31,335
those things back then.

1283
01:00:32,635 --> 01:00:34,335
I'm just saying people aren't following,

1284
01:00:35,295 --> 01:00:36,615
possibly not following plans.

1285
01:00:37,125 --> 01:00:39,295
Well, okay, if that, and if that's the case, then

1286
01:00:39,985 --> 01:00:41,895
don't we have, don't we have something to go away?

1287
01:00:41,925 --> 01:00:45,735
That would be a, so that would be a request to code enfor

1288
01:00:45,735 --> 01:00:47,015
because once it leaves us

1289
01:00:47,995 --> 01:00:49,535
and it's constructed, it is,

1290
01:00:49,675 --> 01:00:51,735
it falls under code enforcement.

1291
01:00:52,395 --> 01:00:55,815
So that would be a request to code enforcement

1292
01:00:55,835 --> 01:00:57,175
to review the site plan.

1293
01:00:57,175 --> 01:01:00,055
Yeah. Which planning obviously would help with to see if

1294
01:01:00,055 --> 01:01:02,095
that was something on the original site plan.

1295
01:01:02,155 --> 01:01:04,255
And then in those cases we go back

1296
01:01:04,255 --> 01:01:05,815
and we say, you need to do this.

1297
01:01:05,865 --> 01:01:09,735
Right. For example, trees that were taken down on a street

1298
01:01:09,735 --> 01:01:12,095
between Applebee's in the building, behind

1299
01:01:12,725 --> 01:01:15,775
that screening was put in intentionally the trees were cut

1300
01:01:15,775 --> 01:01:17,015
down, they need to go back.

1301
01:01:17,015 --> 01:01:18,815
Right. You know, so those types of things.

1302
01:01:18,995 --> 01:01:21,615
And I also recognize that that's a time consuming thing.

1303
01:01:21,615 --> 01:01:23,695
It is a very time consuming compliance.

1304
01:01:23,795 --> 01:01:25,975
Not, I mean that's not the town's focus right now

1305
01:01:25,975 --> 01:01:27,615
because we just don't have Yeah.

1306
01:01:27,715 --> 01:01:32,335
So that, I think the existing mechanisms to enforce that

1307
01:01:32,585 --> 01:01:34,655
where it's on the plan already exists.

1308
01:01:34,955 --> 01:01:36,735
It starts with code enforcement.

1309
01:01:36,885 --> 01:01:38,615
They go look at it, they look at the plan, they,

1310
01:01:38,765 --> 01:01:41,055
they send 'em a letter, send 'em a nice letter,

1311
01:01:41,235 --> 01:01:42,535
and then they get ignored

1312
01:01:42,535 --> 01:01:45,015
and then they send 'em a slightly less nice letter.

1313
01:01:45,555 --> 01:01:46,575
And about the third

1314
01:01:46,575 --> 01:01:49,095
or fourth letter, they actually get fairly intimidating.

1315
01:01:50,365 --> 01:01:54,655
However, number one, maybe having more staff will help them

1316
01:01:55,765 --> 01:01:56,905
get to Yes.

1317
01:01:57,135 --> 01:01:58,265
Quicker is

1318
01:01:58,265 --> 01:01:59,265
There a fiscal Penalty.

1319
01:02:00,125 --> 01:02:01,905
But the planning board actually does have

1320
01:02:01,905 --> 01:02:03,705
what I call the nuclear option.

1321
01:02:04,405 --> 01:02:05,785
If all else fails

1322
01:02:06,465 --> 01:02:10,745
and it's a substantial non-compliance, we have the authority

1323
01:02:10,805 --> 01:02:12,945
to hold a condition compliance hearing

1324
01:02:12,965 --> 01:02:15,145
and say you will comply with this

1325
01:02:15,405 --> 01:02:18,025
or we will revoke your site plan approval.

1326
01:02:18,405 --> 01:02:20,245
And the silly guy from,

1327
01:02:21,985 --> 01:02:25,045
was it NHMA said you can't do that.

1328
01:02:25,065 --> 01:02:27,205
And then I showed him, the statute says, oh yes we can.

1329
01:02:28,315 --> 01:02:30,605
Yeah. And I'm not, I'm not saying we should be the,

1330
01:02:30,945 --> 01:02:33,925
the dumpster police, but when there are areas

1331
01:02:33,995 --> 01:02:37,725
that are like really obvious that looks doesn't look good,

1332
01:02:38,065 --> 01:02:39,805
but what if there Yeah, we could pull a plan.

1333
01:02:40,145 --> 01:02:44,285
We, we could. So later this summer there'll be an option

1334
01:02:44,425 --> 01:02:47,405
for through the new permitting portal

1335
01:02:47,585 --> 01:02:51,565
to enter service requests like that once that goes live.

1336
01:02:51,565 --> 01:02:53,125
That would be, that would probably be a good one

1337
01:02:53,145 --> 01:02:56,965
to maybe test the, test our process, enter that in

1338
01:02:56,965 --> 01:02:57,965
as a service request

1339
01:02:57,985 --> 01:03:00,005
and then we can pull the site plan, we can go

1340
01:03:00,005 --> 01:03:02,245
through the process and, and look at that. Yeah.

1341
01:03:02,405 --> 01:03:06,365
'cause I'm, I'm pretty sure that we never approve plans

1342
01:03:07,825 --> 01:03:08,885
of what's currently there.

1343
01:03:08,885 --> 01:03:10,845
Yeah. I mean, come on. I mean the,

1344
01:03:10,905 --> 01:03:11,765
and I don't know who the

1345
01:03:12,045 --> 01:03:13,165
landlord is or the owner of the building.

1346
01:03:13,225 --> 01:03:14,405
It was a video show. You could,

1347
01:03:14,545 --> 01:03:15,845
you could screen that in easy.

1348
01:03:16,745 --> 01:03:17,745
So it doesn't look like,

1349
01:03:18,685 --> 01:03:20,085
I, I think I agree with you

1350
01:03:20,585 --> 01:03:22,885
and I think it's a, it starts out

1351
01:03:22,885 --> 01:03:24,445
as a code enforcement issue,

1352
01:03:25,545 --> 01:03:27,845
but I don't think we need to actually change the

1353
01:03:27,935 --> 01:03:29,405
ordinances or regulations.

1354
01:03:29,565 --> 01:03:31,165
'cause I think they already provide for it all.

1355
01:03:31,265 --> 01:03:33,685
You're probably right. And when people ignore the law,

1356
01:03:33,915 --> 01:03:35,885
writing our laws doesn't really help.

1357
01:03:36,935 --> 01:03:38,925
Right. But we should check it just to make sure

1358
01:03:38,925 --> 01:03:40,045
that going forward.

1359
01:03:40,045 --> 01:03:41,885
Yeah. But the planning board doesn't have that

1360
01:03:43,425 --> 01:03:46,325
Don We have the, we have the jurisdiction when there's a

1361
01:03:46,325 --> 01:03:47,485
new building, a new, a new

1362
01:03:47,605 --> 01:03:48,605
Building.

1363
01:03:48,605 --> 01:03:49,565
Sure. But we don't have the

1364
01:03:49,565 --> 01:03:52,005
jurisdiction to be the dumpster police. No.

1365
01:03:52,275 --> 01:03:53,805
I'll, I'll look at the Crystal Plaza.

1366
01:03:54,545 --> 01:03:56,365
I'm just looking, I mean, just the obvious stuff.

1367
01:03:57,035 --> 01:04:01,825
I'll, I'll look at it. Okay.

1368
01:04:04,645 --> 01:04:08,345
On that. Expand uses in general commercial two.

1369
01:04:13,425 --> 01:04:14,995
Yeah. I mean we have a lot of

1370
01:04:15,895 --> 01:04:17,555
use lists in our zoning ordinance

1371
01:04:17,555 --> 01:04:19,115
that are based on the old days.

1372
01:04:19,355 --> 01:04:20,475
We've cleaned up some of 'em,

1373
01:04:20,475 --> 01:04:23,955
but some of 'em are still very specific.

1374
01:04:24,695 --> 01:04:28,715
Yes. You know, descriptions of hat stores

1375
01:04:28,775 --> 01:04:31,275
and shoe stores and stuff.

1376
01:04:31,415 --> 01:04:34,675
So, yes. So this request came from Beth Donovan,

1377
01:04:34,675 --> 01:04:36,195
our economic development director,

1378
01:04:36,195 --> 01:04:37,635
who's actually online listening.

1379
01:04:38,605 --> 01:04:43,075
There has been, there's some properties in the GC two

1380
01:04:43,795 --> 01:04:46,355
district that are vacant or keep going on and off market.

1381
01:04:47,055 --> 01:04:51,555
And every time someone goes to

1382
01:04:52,625 --> 01:04:55,115
expresses interest in it, the things that they want

1383
01:04:55,115 --> 01:04:56,635
to do there are not permitted.

1384
01:04:56,635 --> 01:05:00,595
Because this is, we, when you guys originally set up

1385
01:05:00,595 --> 01:05:03,635
that zone, it was more medical, like, it was more medical

1386
01:05:04,475 --> 01:05:08,835
centric heading, even heading up the bypass up

1387
01:05:08,835 --> 01:05:09,955
to the cell tower.

1388
01:05:10,695 --> 01:05:15,035
So she's asking if we could take a look at the, you know,

1389
01:05:15,265 --> 01:05:16,995
look at that zone, how it is now,

1390
01:05:17,395 --> 01:05:20,245
take into consideration what's gonna happen like four a's

1391
01:05:20,245 --> 01:05:21,885
gonna do some, a little bit of work there.

1392
01:05:22,105 --> 01:05:24,085
Not a lot, but there'll be some work done there.

1393
01:05:24,585 --> 01:05:27,605
And look at opportunities to maybe expand economic

1394
01:05:28,765 --> 01:05:29,965
opportunity in that area.

1395
01:05:30,405 --> 01:05:32,285
So you said Bev's listening, which is great.

1396
01:05:32,975 --> 01:05:35,085
Maybe she needs to come in

1397
01:05:35,085 --> 01:05:37,485
and let us know, like what kind of inquiries, types

1398
01:05:37,485 --> 01:05:40,445
of business inquiries are asking about those things that

1399
01:05:40,445 --> 01:05:41,445
We can look at.

1400
01:05:41,445 --> 01:05:42,245
There's there, well, I, I can say that there,

1401
01:05:42,315 --> 01:05:44,565
there's been several to put,

1402
01:05:45,155 --> 01:05:47,405
like contractor Bay type uses

1403
01:05:48,315 --> 01:05:50,445
more commercial uses than medical uses.

1404
01:05:52,145 --> 01:05:54,205
But, but Bev has a better idea of, you know,

1405
01:05:54,205 --> 01:05:55,765
the inquiries that have come in for that.

1406
01:05:55,835 --> 01:06:00,165
Some warehouse. Warehouse with small retail in the front.

1407
01:06:00,745 --> 01:06:03,005
But those are things that are not permitted currently in

1408
01:06:03,005 --> 01:06:06,085
that zone or to the size that people would want.

1409
01:06:06,585 --> 01:06:10,405
So I, I assume that the people who are coming in

1410
01:06:10,405 --> 01:06:15,005
with these business proposals are not finding

1411
01:06:15,635 --> 01:06:19,085
lots available in the zones where those things are allowed.

1412
01:06:19,145 --> 01:06:20,145
Is that the problem?

1413
01:06:21,515 --> 01:06:22,885
Potentially, Yeah.

1414
01:06:23,225 --> 01:06:26,605
So it's like, oh, I can't find a lot for sale in industrial

1415
01:06:27,165 --> 01:06:28,285
district where I could do this.

1416
01:06:29,105 --> 01:06:31,965
But I can find a lot available in a commercial district

1417
01:06:31,965 --> 01:06:34,485
where we wanted it not to be industrial.

1418
01:06:35,485 --> 01:06:37,125
'cause you know, zoning is kind

1419
01:06:37,125 --> 01:06:39,085
of like the old blue plate dinner

1420
01:06:39,085 --> 01:06:40,165
where you had the little ridges

1421
01:06:40,165 --> 01:06:41,685
and you kept all your vegetables separate from your

1422
01:06:41,685 --> 01:06:42,765
meat, separate from your potatoes.

1423
01:06:42,985 --> 01:06:45,445
That's kind of what zoning was all, all about to begin with.

1424
01:06:46,985 --> 01:06:49,525
And I know that the, the new thing is,

1425
01:06:49,785 --> 01:06:51,085
is the form-based zoning's.

1426
01:06:51,085 --> 01:06:52,765
Like I don't care what you do, as long as it looks pretty.

1427
01:06:53,565 --> 01:06:55,605
I don't know that we're ready to go all the way there

1428
01:06:55,625 --> 01:06:56,845
yet. No, I don't, no,

1429
01:06:57,105 --> 01:06:58,105
Not yet.

1430
01:06:58,865 --> 01:07:02,205
So yeah, this is a challenge when you've segregated uses

1431
01:07:02,345 --> 01:07:06,405
in order to make people sort of happy with

1432
01:07:07,535 --> 01:07:10,125
folks are doing similar things in their neighborhood.

1433
01:07:10,905 --> 01:07:12,205
And then you get someone that's like, oh,

1434
01:07:12,275 --> 01:07:14,245
well I can't find a, an industrial lot

1435
01:07:14,265 --> 01:07:15,925
so I wanna plop my thing here.

1436
01:07:17,305 --> 01:07:18,725
We should look at it. Okay.

1437
01:07:19,505 --> 01:07:23,005
But just my opinion has always been, well the fact

1438
01:07:23,005 --> 01:07:24,125
that you can't find a lot

1439
01:07:24,125 --> 01:07:26,325
that allows it doesn't mean we should change

1440
01:07:26,325 --> 01:07:27,445
the zoning just for you.

1441
01:07:27,905 --> 01:07:32,565
No. Yeah. But it'd be nice to know people are looking

1442
01:07:32,585 --> 01:07:34,005
for certain things.

1443
01:07:34,635 --> 01:07:36,685
Well, I can, I can work with Bev

1444
01:07:36,825 --> 01:07:40,765
and we can come up with, you know, maybe a draft.

1445
01:07:41,545 --> 01:07:43,325
How many versions of GC do we have?

1446
01:07:44,245 --> 01:07:45,405
We have four. Yeah.

1447
01:07:45,405 --> 01:07:48,245
Alright, so it is probably a good time to just Yes.

1448
01:07:48,995 --> 01:07:50,965
That probably wandered and evolved over time.

1449
01:07:51,425 --> 01:07:53,605
It has, yeah. So maybe just a

1450
01:07:53,605 --> 01:07:55,205
whole look at all of them.

1451
01:07:55,595 --> 01:07:56,595
Okay.

1452
01:07:57,945 --> 01:07:59,805
JC two was the last one because of the gas stations.

1453
01:08:04,825 --> 01:08:07,235
Okay. And then, you know, maybe,

1454
01:08:08,325 --> 01:08:11,355
maybe if we get a big grant, we'll hire a, a,

1455
01:08:11,515 --> 01:08:14,155
a national consulting firm to rewrite our, our zoning and,

1456
01:08:14,175 --> 01:08:16,445
and you know, have them do it over two years.

1457
01:08:17,985 --> 01:08:18,965
Oh, we can look at that.

1458
01:08:22,795 --> 01:08:26,925
Okay. So is everyone kind of happy with what's on here?

1459
01:08:26,925 --> 01:08:31,765
There's nothing that seems outta sorts to anyone.

1460
01:08:32,065 --> 01:08:36,645
No. And then how do we propose to work on these?

1461
01:08:37,715 --> 01:08:39,925
Well, that's what, that was the responsibility

1462
01:08:40,075 --> 01:08:41,125
oversight section.

1463
01:08:42,585 --> 01:08:45,685
So some of 'em you might, we might want to again,

1464
01:08:46,075 --> 01:08:47,165
form small committees.

1465
01:08:47,405 --> 01:08:51,125
'cause I think expecting staff to, to work on all

1466
01:08:51,125 --> 01:08:53,125
of these is tough.

1467
01:08:53,465 --> 01:08:55,885
And the ones that impact uses

1468
01:08:56,025 --> 01:09:00,545
and might draw either bouquets

1469
01:09:00,545 --> 01:09:02,385
or brick, brick bats from abutters

1470
01:09:02,985 --> 01:09:06,625
probably should have more, you know, outreach.

1471
01:09:06,935 --> 01:09:10,145
Okay. So some of 'em, these are pretty technical.

1472
01:09:11,045 --> 01:09:12,145
So those are, those are simple.

1473
01:09:12,165 --> 01:09:14,865
But the ones that are more impactful to people,

1474
01:09:18,065 --> 01:09:22,985
I think, I think for the, the, you know, the four a thing,

1475
01:09:22,985 --> 01:09:24,585
the the committee thing worked.

1476
01:09:25,245 --> 01:09:26,745
It did, it worked well. And,

1477
01:09:26,745 --> 01:09:28,145
and there was a lot of moving parts there.

1478
01:09:29,305 --> 01:09:31,535
Right. And we had, you know, four

1479
01:09:31,535 --> 01:09:35,065
or five different civic profile kind

1480
01:09:35,065 --> 01:09:37,785
of things. So yeah.

1481
01:09:38,255 --> 01:09:39,985
Okay. We can do that. So I'll,

1482
01:09:40,405 --> 01:09:44,265
So at some point when we get ready to do this,

1483
01:09:44,265 --> 01:09:47,385
and if it's a big enough thing, I will probably solicit two

1484
01:09:47,385 --> 01:09:49,745
or three people to volunteer.

1485
01:09:51,215 --> 01:09:52,625
Okay. All right.

1486
01:09:52,785 --> 01:09:55,705
I will revise this and get it back to you guys for review.

1487
01:09:56,085 --> 01:09:57,905
We don't need to do an in-depth thing like this,

1488
01:09:57,925 --> 01:10:00,425
but if you see something that looks out of line,

1489
01:10:00,485 --> 01:10:01,745
let me know and I'll amend it.

1490
01:10:03,275 --> 01:10:05,505
Thank you. Okay. Thank you for indulging me in that.

1491
01:10:05,785 --> 01:10:06,785
I appreciate it.

1492
01:10:08,285 --> 01:10:12,145
All right. Now

1493
01:10:12,145 --> 01:10:15,265
that we've done all the administrative business, we have a

1494
01:10:16,525 --> 01:10:19,745
one or two, three public hearings to conduct. Do

1495
01:10:19,745 --> 01:10:20,745
We wanna do updates?

1496
01:10:21,485 --> 01:10:23,785
Oh yeah, updates. Okay. Just short.

1497
01:10:25,245 --> 01:10:27,065
So just a reminder,

1498
01:10:28,105 --> 01:10:31,825
I know we've gave you information about NI Kappa in October,

1499
01:10:31,925 --> 01:10:33,985
and I know we still have a lot of time to register,

1500
01:10:34,085 --> 01:10:36,105
but if we could take advantage of our training budget

1501
01:10:36,165 --> 01:10:38,665
before July, so let us know.

1502
01:10:38,785 --> 01:10:39,905
I know that Mr.

1503
01:10:40,255 --> 01:10:41,465
Pier has been signed up

1504
01:10:42,045 --> 01:10:45,345
and then I know that Randy had expressed interest in some,

1505
01:10:45,365 --> 01:10:48,985
so if anyone's interested in attending all three sessions

1506
01:10:49,005 --> 01:10:52,545
or just one day of ni Kappa, let Caroline or I know

1507
01:10:52,845 --> 01:10:54,185
and we can register you.

1508
01:10:55,455 --> 01:10:58,105
Just a reminder, our next meeting will be July 8th,

1509
01:10:58,155 --> 01:10:59,505
which is a little off schedule.

1510
01:10:59,565 --> 01:11:04,265
So just remember July 8th, not July 1st, the comments

1511
01:11:04,725 --> 01:11:06,105
for if you guys would like

1512
01:11:06,105 --> 01:11:07,665
to take a look at the information sent

1513
01:11:07,685 --> 01:11:08,745
by the town of Windham.

1514
01:11:08,765 --> 01:11:11,985
And if you have any comments on that, we need

1515
01:11:11,985 --> 01:11:14,405
to get those back to them before their next public hearing.

1516
01:11:14,785 --> 01:11:19,365
So, and I unfortunately don't recall the exact

1517
01:11:19,365 --> 01:11:20,405
date of their public hearing.

1518
01:11:20,465 --> 01:11:22,125
So sometime in the next couple of weeks,

1519
01:11:22,145 --> 01:11:23,485
if you could just get me any comments

1520
01:11:23,585 --> 01:11:26,725
or concerns that you would like to see addressed by the town

1521
01:11:26,725 --> 01:11:29,885
of Wyndham for that project, I can compile a memo

1522
01:11:29,905 --> 01:11:31,445
and get that to Mr.

1523
01:11:31,635 --> 01:11:36,205
Meow. And then in your packets,

1524
01:11:36,325 --> 01:11:39,925
I think you all have a copy of our little survey.

1525
01:11:42,785 --> 01:11:45,885
So Abby has actually been taking the lead on this

1526
01:11:45,885 --> 01:11:47,765
with Southern New Hampshire Planning Commission.

1527
01:11:48,465 --> 01:11:50,245
So I, and she

1528
01:11:50,905 --> 01:11:52,445
and Liliana from the commission,

1529
01:11:52,445 --> 01:11:54,045
were down at the farmer's market today.

1530
01:11:54,225 --> 01:11:57,965
And I'll just let her give you a quick re just explain

1531
01:11:57,995 --> 01:12:02,045
what this is and give a quick report out on the activities

1532
01:12:02,045 --> 01:12:05,285
today and the reception that we had for it.

1533
01:12:09,005 --> 01:12:11,945
All right. Yeah, so the survey

1534
01:12:14,525 --> 01:12:17,305
is basically, I'm trying to think of my little speech

1535
01:12:17,305 --> 01:12:18,385
that I gave a million times.

1536
01:12:19,845 --> 01:12:23,225
But basically the survey is for residents,

1537
01:12:24,365 --> 01:12:26,065
people working in dairy,

1538
01:12:26,125 --> 01:12:28,505
and then the surrounding communities too.

1539
01:12:29,725 --> 01:12:33,625
And the surveys basically like an area,

1540
01:12:34,095 --> 01:12:36,905
what it's proposed to look like and if you like it or not.

1541
01:12:37,045 --> 01:12:38,825
And you can give a little five star rating

1542
01:12:39,005 --> 01:12:42,185
or zero star rating or somewhere in between.

1543
01:12:42,805 --> 01:12:45,865
And basically the, it was working, yeah,

1544
01:12:46,325 --> 01:12:49,745
the Southern New Hampshire Planning Commission is going

1545
01:12:49,745 --> 01:12:53,505
to take all these survey results and combine 'em all

1546
01:12:53,525 --> 01:12:55,465
and see what people like, what people don't like.

1547
01:12:56,205 --> 01:12:58,865
And possibly they'll be implemented

1548
01:12:58,865 --> 01:13:02,065
and if they work out, then add it to their

1549
01:13:03,415 --> 01:13:07,305
like regional long-term plans for other communities.

1550
01:13:08,125 --> 01:13:12,505
And I got a, got like pretty good feedback

1551
01:13:12,525 --> 01:13:13,785
and like reception from it.

1552
01:13:14,305 --> 01:13:15,825
I don't know if they were just being nice to my face

1553
01:13:15,925 --> 01:13:20,785
and we'll throw out the paper right after they walk past me,

1554
01:13:21,285 --> 01:13:23,105
but I didn't see any on the ground, so that's good.

1555
01:13:25,085 --> 01:13:26,185
And a lot

1556
01:13:26,185 --> 01:13:28,785
of people actually seemed very interested in the topic

1557
01:13:29,085 --> 01:13:30,585
and I told them to tell their friends,

1558
01:13:30,615 --> 01:13:33,265
tell the fa tell their families, put it on their fridge.

1559
01:13:33,445 --> 01:13:36,105
So fingers crossed we'll get a good response.

1560
01:13:38,295 --> 01:13:42,625
Okay. Thank you. So please take the survey. Yeah.

1561
01:13:43,045 --> 01:13:46,265
So lemme just ask a quick question if you don't mind.

1562
01:13:46,935 --> 01:13:51,305
Does the survey have a component

1563
01:13:51,645 --> 01:13:54,025
of like a, an age bracket range?

1564
01:13:54,775 --> 01:13:55,825
Okay, good. Because yes,

1565
01:13:57,045 --> 01:14:00,345
I'm really interested in hearing the younger generation of

1566
01:14:00,345 --> 01:14:01,665
what they're, what they're looking for

1567
01:14:01,665 --> 01:14:03,545
because they're the ones that are getting kind

1568
01:14:03,545 --> 01:14:04,945
of squeezed out of the market, you know,

1569
01:14:05,545 --> 01:14:07,345
but I, I didn't know, but yeah. Yeah,

1570
01:14:07,365 --> 01:14:08,365
That's the question.

1571
01:14:08,365 --> 01:14:09,025
Well, yeah, that's one of the questions.

1572
01:14:09,045 --> 01:14:11,725
So we're gonna collect that type of demographic data,

1573
01:14:12,145 --> 01:14:15,885
you know, do you live work or other in dairy?

1574
01:14:16,865 --> 01:14:18,805
So we'll, we'll have that.

1575
01:14:18,805 --> 01:14:20,325
And then we're also capturing data.

1576
01:14:20,585 --> 01:14:22,165
Are you a homeowner or a renter?

1577
01:14:22,165 --> 01:14:24,845
Because I think that's important to know, you know,

1578
01:14:24,845 --> 01:14:27,605
where people are, where, where people are trending,

1579
01:14:27,785 --> 01:14:30,365
you know, do you, do you wanna go from a homeowner to rent?

1580
01:14:30,385 --> 01:14:32,165
Do you wanna go from rent to homeowner?

1581
01:14:32,235 --> 01:14:34,405
That would be good data to capture. Yeah.

1582
01:14:34,785 --> 01:14:36,045
So we,

1583
01:14:36,255 --> 01:14:41,085
there were three particular areas picked just in, not

1584
01:14:41,085 --> 01:14:43,765
because, and I wanna make this clear to everybody, not

1585
01:14:43,765 --> 01:14:45,765
because we're anticipating

1586
01:14:45,765 --> 01:14:47,325
that we're gonna do zoning changes

1587
01:14:47,505 --> 01:14:48,965
or anything in those areas.

1588
01:14:49,585 --> 01:14:53,725
It was more because the data that comes out of this needs

1589
01:14:53,725 --> 01:14:56,565
to be transferable to the other 13 communities within

1590
01:14:57,105 --> 01:14:58,925
the Southern New Hampshire Planning Commission region.

1591
01:14:59,665 --> 01:15:03,005
And so we picked our downtown, we picked Ryan's Hill

1592
01:15:03,265 --> 01:15:07,485
and we also picked heading up Chester,

1593
01:15:07,675 --> 01:15:09,125
like heading up towards Chester

1594
01:15:09,125 --> 01:15:11,005
because it's still more rural there.

1595
01:15:11,385 --> 01:15:14,645
And we wanted to capture some of like the rural aspects.

1596
01:15:14,675 --> 01:15:16,085
Like if you were going

1597
01:15:16,085 --> 01:15:18,365
to do like a tiny court development in a rural area,

1598
01:15:18,365 --> 01:15:19,485
what's that gonna look like?

1599
01:15:20,025 --> 01:15:21,845
Or what could it look like potentially?

1600
01:15:22,145 --> 01:15:23,965
And how do you feel about it when you see that

1601
01:15:24,615 --> 01:15:27,205
where you've used, you've been used to seeing fields like,

1602
01:15:27,265 --> 01:15:28,365
so how does that look?

1603
01:15:28,825 --> 01:15:31,485
So we would like to get that kind of data from people.

1604
01:15:31,595 --> 01:15:35,565
Yeah. I also, I'm also highly interested in

1605
01:15:36,305 --> 01:15:39,205
senior citizens that may, if there's like, you know,

1606
01:15:39,205 --> 01:15:40,765
the children are grown, they're out of the house.

1607
01:15:40,875 --> 01:15:44,365
They own a four bedroom home, but they're not moving

1608
01:15:44,365 --> 01:15:46,885
because there's not the type of home

1609
01:15:46,885 --> 01:15:48,685
that they wanna downsize to. Correct.

1610
01:15:49,195 --> 01:15:52,405
Abby had a conversation this afternoon with a couple

1611
01:15:52,405 --> 01:15:54,725
of people who are looking for affordable senior housing.

1612
01:15:55,075 --> 01:15:58,085
Yeah. And, you know, potentially looking at things like

1613
01:15:59,805 --> 01:16:00,895
cottage court or,

1614
01:16:00,955 --> 01:16:02,375
or tiny home developments

1615
01:16:02,375 --> 01:16:04,095
where things could be on one level,

1616
01:16:04,555 --> 01:16:06,335
but you still have that sense of community

1617
01:16:06,335 --> 01:16:07,855
because you don't wanna lose that. So.

1618
01:16:07,885 --> 01:16:11,255
Okay, good. So thank you.

1619
01:16:11,805 --> 01:16:15,375
Okay. Now public hearing.

1620
01:16:15,555 --> 01:16:19,535
Now public hearing. Alright.

1621
01:16:21,355 --> 01:16:25,735
So we have I think three public

1622
01:16:25,735 --> 01:16:27,175
hearings all related.

1623
01:16:29,675 --> 01:16:33,495
One is for changes to the zoning ordinance, you,

1624
01:16:33,555 --> 01:16:38,255
you word uses and definitions, one to the actual

1625
01:16:39,525 --> 01:16:42,015
body of the zoning ordinance with regard to

1626
01:16:42,735 --> 01:16:45,295
district provisions for the central business district.

1627
01:16:47,555 --> 01:16:51,695
And then another public hearing to discuss companion changes

1628
01:16:51,835 --> 01:16:54,015
to the land development control regulations

1629
01:16:54,595 --> 01:16:57,375
to specifically add some architectural design review

1630
01:16:59,015 --> 01:17:03,095
specific to those uses in the central business district.

1631
01:17:03,845 --> 01:17:05,855
Okay. So, Mr. Chairman, I'll make a motion

1632
01:17:05,855 --> 01:17:07,775
that we open public hearing for the first one.

1633
01:17:08,485 --> 01:17:12,605
Okay. We have a second mo moved by chair Charles second

1634
01:17:12,665 --> 01:17:16,005
by pier to open a public hearing on the

1635
01:17:16,715 --> 01:17:18,485
definitions amendments.

1636
01:17:19,745 --> 01:17:22,485
All those in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed?

1637
01:17:23,185 --> 01:17:26,165
Say our public hearing is open. There's no one in the room.

1638
01:17:26,345 --> 01:17:27,845
So unless we have someone online,

1639
01:17:28,745 --> 01:17:29,745
Mr.

1640
01:17:29,745 --> 01:17:31,485
Chair, we're seeing none rise online.

1641
01:17:32,635 --> 01:17:33,925
Move to Close the public hearing.

1642
01:17:35,515 --> 01:17:38,565
Move by George Charles to close the public hearing.

1643
01:17:38,565 --> 01:17:41,565
Seconded by PE in favor, say aye. Aye. Aye.

1644
01:17:42,025 --> 01:17:46,645
The public hearing is closed now.

1645
01:17:48,145 --> 01:17:50,085
Are we disposing of them tonight as well?

1646
01:17:50,905 --> 01:17:53,005
So tonight the request would be

1647
01:17:53,145 --> 01:17:55,285
to accept the proposed changes

1648
01:17:55,345 --> 01:17:56,325
and move them forward to

1649
01:17:56,325 --> 01:17:57,645
town council for their public hearing. Hearing

1650
01:17:57,685 --> 01:17:58,685
A motion maker for that.

1651
01:17:58,685 --> 01:18:01,485
I move There is one on the, so at the bottom

1652
01:18:01,485 --> 01:18:02,485
of this motion staff report.

1653
01:18:02,485 --> 01:18:04,165
Yeah. There are suggested motions

1654
01:18:04,165 --> 01:18:06,365
because you should also do findings of fact.

1655
01:18:07,345 --> 01:18:11,485
Oh yeah. Where are we here?

1656
01:18:12,065 --> 01:18:16,285
So for the proposed changes in the central business

1657
01:18:16,645 --> 01:18:19,565
district, that first one on page?

1658
01:18:19,635 --> 01:18:21,245
Yeah. The second page of the staff report.

1659
01:18:22,355 --> 01:18:24,045
Okay. So Mr.

1660
01:18:24,285 --> 01:18:26,325
Chairman, I'll move to find the proposed changes.

1661
01:18:26,885 --> 01:18:29,085
Recognize the changing landscape of Southern New Hampshire

1662
01:18:29,085 --> 01:18:32,765
where increased housing density, height of buildings

1663
01:18:32,905 --> 01:18:36,005
and commercial market trends require some form of adaption

1664
01:18:36,425 --> 01:18:38,325
to create opportunities for economic growth

1665
01:18:38,345 --> 01:18:40,925
and development in the core area of the downtown.

1666
01:18:41,375 --> 01:18:43,525
While maintaining the historical character

1667
01:18:43,525 --> 01:18:45,005
of the central business district.

1668
01:18:45,545 --> 01:18:48,325
The changes recognize the smaller watt sizes

1669
01:18:48,985 --> 01:18:51,965
and land use patterns that have emerged in the district.

1670
01:18:52,105 --> 01:18:53,445
Is that the one for the definitions?

1671
01:18:55,105 --> 01:18:56,165
I'm Sorry, is that the motion

1672
01:18:56,305 --> 01:18:57,925
for the hearing on the definitions?

1673
01:18:58,715 --> 01:18:59,805
This is just the finding.

1674
01:18:59,805 --> 01:19:01,565
There should be a finding of that's, that's

1675
01:19:01,565 --> 01:19:02,565
The fact.

1676
01:19:02,565 --> 01:19:04,325
It covers all Of it. Okay. Yeah. So finding a fact.

1677
01:19:04,325 --> 01:19:05,725
And then the motion, which is

1678
01:19:06,205 --> 01:19:07,325
I just read the Finding of fact.

1679
01:19:07,595 --> 01:19:10,245
Okay. Okay.

1680
01:19:10,465 --> 01:19:13,445
So I, a motion by Ello, seconded by Palantir

1681
01:19:13,465 --> 01:19:16,965
to make findings of fact regarding the need

1682
01:19:16,985 --> 01:19:18,405
for these changes.

1683
01:19:19,705 --> 01:19:24,405
Any discussion Mr. Chase? Yes.

1684
01:19:24,945 --> 01:19:29,565
Mr. Wood? Yes. Mr. Menini? Yes. Mr. O'Connor? Yes. Mr.

1685
01:19:29,845 --> 01:19:32,685
Mazi? Yes. Mr. Ello? Yes. Palantir? Yes.

1686
01:19:32,685 --> 01:19:34,485
And the chair votes? Yes. And

1687
01:19:34,505 --> 01:19:35,505
Mr.

1688
01:19:35,505 --> 01:19:38,205
Chairman, I make a motion to accept the proposed changes

1689
01:19:38,345 --> 01:19:40,165
to the town of dairy zoning ordinance.

1690
01:19:40,165 --> 01:19:42,605
Article two word uses

1691
01:19:42,605 --> 01:19:46,725
and definitions sections 1 65 dash five definitions

1692
01:19:46,745 --> 01:19:50,285
to amend the definition of quote, front lot line

1693
01:19:51,185 --> 01:19:52,685
and parking facility.

1694
01:19:52,865 --> 01:19:56,685
And to add a definition for our multi-level parking facility

1695
01:19:57,145 --> 01:20:00,005
and to move these changes forward to town Council

1696
01:20:00,105 --> 01:20:01,125
for review and approval.

1697
01:20:01,345 --> 01:20:06,245
Second, moved by Ello, seconded by Pelletier to approve

1698
01:20:06,865 --> 01:20:10,125
the amendments as presented at this hearing

1699
01:20:10,145 --> 01:20:12,045
and forward it to the town council.

1700
01:20:12,945 --> 01:20:16,565
Mr. Chase? Yes. Mr. Wood? Yes. Mr. Menini? Yes.

1701
01:20:16,625 --> 01:20:21,245
Mr. O'Connor? Yes. Mr. Mousy? Yes. Mr. Yes. Mr. Pier? Yes.

1702
01:20:21,245 --> 01:20:22,285
Chair votes? Yes.

1703
01:20:22,985 --> 01:20:26,645
So the next one actually makes the changes

1704
01:20:26,985 --> 01:20:29,365
to the uses.

1705
01:20:29,385 --> 01:20:32,725
And, and maybe we could have just a,

1706
01:20:34,465 --> 01:20:36,925
is there an executive summary in the, in the staff report

1707
01:20:36,925 --> 01:20:38,725
that you could read for us?

1708
01:20:38,725 --> 01:20:43,485
Maybe the, the last paragraph, the move move

1709
01:20:43,485 --> 01:20:44,805
to accept the proposed changes?

1710
01:20:45,265 --> 01:20:47,965
No, no, no. Just, oh. Describe the changes a little bit more

1711
01:20:47,965 --> 01:20:50,765
than in this legal description.

1712
01:20:51,595 --> 01:20:55,085
Okay. What, what were, what were we doing and why?

1713
01:20:56,665 --> 01:20:57,765
So that would be the second

1714
01:20:57,825 --> 01:20:59,725
and third paragraphs of the staff report.

1715
01:21:00,155 --> 01:21:02,565
Okay. If you could someone wanna read that?

1716
01:21:02,725 --> 01:21:05,085
I don't care who Just for the public hearing.

1717
01:21:05,465 --> 01:21:06,565
You want me to read it? I can read

1718
01:21:06,565 --> 01:21:07,565
It.

1719
01:21:07,565 --> 01:21:09,085
So should we open the public hearing on this one first?

1720
01:21:09,155 --> 01:21:11,885
Yeah. Make a motion to open the public hearing. Second.

1721
01:21:11,955 --> 01:21:15,805
Alright, so we have a motion by Ello, seconded by Peir

1722
01:21:15,805 --> 01:21:19,845
to open the public hearing on the second set

1723
01:21:19,845 --> 01:21:21,165
of amendments in the zoning ordinance.

1724
01:21:21,245 --> 01:21:25,085
All those gonna say in favor say aye. Aye. Opposed say nay.

1725
01:21:25,265 --> 01:21:26,285
Public hearing is open.

1726
01:21:26,305 --> 01:21:29,925
So maybe someone would read those, that description so that

1727
01:21:30,145 --> 01:21:30,685
for the record,

1728
01:21:37,365 --> 01:21:38,165
I don't care. I

1729
01:21:38,165 --> 01:21:39,485
Shall, I shall so.

1730
01:21:40,425 --> 01:21:42,965
So the proposed changes, they include an amendment

1731
01:21:43,145 --> 01:21:46,005
to the purpose of the requirements, which you just did.

1732
01:21:46,425 --> 01:21:49,085
An increase in density for multi-unit mixed use

1733
01:21:49,595 --> 01:21:52,045
from 12 units per acre to 24.

1734
01:21:52,605 --> 01:21:56,445
A decrease in minimum unit size from 800 square feet to 400

1735
01:21:57,075 --> 01:21:59,645
removes the limit on the number of bedrooms required.

1736
01:21:59,915 --> 01:22:01,165
Removes restriction on

1737
01:22:01,165 --> 01:22:04,125
where the commercial space shall be located in a mixed use

1738
01:22:04,365 --> 01:22:06,605
building, while also defining the percentage

1739
01:22:06,605 --> 01:22:08,165
of commercial space that's required.

1740
01:22:08,755 --> 01:22:10,805
Adds medical office as a permitted use

1741
01:22:10,905 --> 01:22:13,725
and removes the prior term parking facilities

1742
01:22:13,725 --> 01:22:16,445
and replaces it with multi-level parking facility.

1743
01:22:16,985 --> 01:22:19,765
It also adds a requirement to connect to municipal sewer

1744
01:22:19,825 --> 01:22:21,405
for conversions and new developments.

1745
01:22:22,495 --> 01:22:24,485
There were also changes to enhance

1746
01:22:24,485 --> 01:22:25,885
and protect the street scape,

1747
01:22:26,295 --> 01:22:29,725
which included amending the maximum front yard depth

1748
01:22:29,905 --> 01:22:31,605
to vary in terms of the lot width.

1749
01:22:31,985 --> 01:22:33,845
So for lots that are 75 feet

1750
01:22:33,905 --> 01:22:36,405
or less, the front yard depth will be eight feet

1751
01:22:38,265 --> 01:22:40,725
or the average going in a hundred feet in every direction.

1752
01:22:41,185 --> 01:22:43,165
For lots that are 76 feet or wider.

1753
01:22:43,355 --> 01:22:45,605
Minimum yard depth is 25 feet

1754
01:22:45,605 --> 01:22:48,405
or the average of existing yard depths for 200 feet.

1755
01:22:49,165 --> 01:22:52,925
Structure height is increased from a maximum of 350 feet

1756
01:22:52,945 --> 01:22:55,645
to 425 feet above sea level.

1757
01:22:56,825 --> 01:22:59,805
The prohibit, the prohibited use section was amended

1758
01:22:59,805 --> 01:23:01,605
to delete the list of prohibited uses

1759
01:23:01,605 --> 01:23:03,285
because we're a permissive zoning ordinance.

1760
01:23:04,265 --> 01:23:05,805
So that means if the use isn't listed,

1761
01:23:05,955 --> 01:23:08,605
it's not permitted off street parking was clarified

1762
01:23:08,625 --> 01:23:11,045
to ensure that parking's not situated in a manner

1763
01:23:11,045 --> 01:23:13,485
that requires a vehicle to back out into a roadway

1764
01:23:14,225 --> 01:23:15,485
and to prohibit parking

1765
01:23:15,585 --> 01:23:17,885
or storage of vehicles in the front setback.

1766
01:23:18,305 --> 01:23:20,605
We also removed special exception uses.

1767
01:23:21,755 --> 01:23:26,125
Okay, so again, seeing no one in the audience,

1768
01:23:26,225 --> 01:23:27,565
is there anyone online who wishes

1769
01:23:27,625 --> 01:23:30,605
to comment on this amendment? Seeing none

1770
01:23:30,605 --> 01:23:32,365
Rise, move to close the public hearing.

1771
01:23:33,025 --> 01:23:35,365
So motion to close the public hearing

1772
01:23:35,385 --> 01:23:37,525
by chair shall second by peir.

1773
01:23:38,525 --> 01:23:41,965
All those in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Any nay? Okay.

1774
01:23:42,125 --> 01:23:44,325
Public hearing is closed. So now let's have some

1775
01:23:45,865 --> 01:23:49,765
motion from the motion maker in the staff report.

1776
01:23:52,195 --> 01:23:55,165
Page two again the last paragraph. Yes.

1777
01:23:55,235 --> 01:23:56,525
Move to propo, I'm sorry.

1778
01:23:56,595 --> 01:23:59,165
Move to accept the proposed changes to the town

1779
01:23:59,165 --> 01:24:03,005
of DER zoning ordinance article was that four

1780
01:24:03,825 --> 01:24:04,885
Six, I'm sorry.

1781
01:24:04,885 --> 01:24:09,605
Article six, district provisions section 1 65 dash 33

1782
01:24:10,275 --> 01:24:14,285
Central Business District to amend subsection A purpose.

1783
01:24:14,575 --> 01:24:18,925
Subsection B permitted uses subsection C one

1784
01:24:19,005 --> 01:24:20,165
through six area

1785
01:24:20,265 --> 01:24:21,685
and dimensional requirements

1786
01:24:21,685 --> 01:24:26,005
to include minimal minimum allot area, front yard depth

1787
01:24:26,385 --> 01:24:29,125
and building height to amend SEC subsection F

1788
01:24:30,045 --> 01:24:32,325
prohibitive uses subsection G parking

1789
01:24:32,865 --> 01:24:36,725
and to delete subsection H special except uses.

1790
01:24:37,065 --> 01:24:39,845
And to move these changes forward to the town council

1791
01:24:39,905 --> 01:24:41,005
for their review and approval.

1792
01:24:42,425 --> 01:24:45,085
It has been moved by Ello, seconded by Callier

1793
01:24:45,225 --> 01:24:48,525
to approve the amendments as presented at this hearing.

1794
01:24:48,585 --> 01:24:51,165
And forward to the town Council for review and acceptance.

1795
01:24:52,105 --> 01:24:55,725
Mr. Chase? Yes. Mr. Wood? Yes. Mr. Menini? Yes.

1796
01:24:55,825 --> 01:24:59,885
Mr. O'Connor? Yes. Mr. Mousy? Yes. Mr. Chair. Cello. Yes.

1797
01:24:59,905 --> 01:25:01,725
Mr. Pier? Yes. Chair votes? Yes.

1798
01:25:02,225 --> 01:25:06,525
And then the last one is regarding the LDCR.

1799
01:25:06,595 --> 01:25:08,125
Basically to include some

1800
01:25:09,005 --> 01:25:10,605
specific guidance on architectural design

1801
01:25:10,635 --> 01:25:12,045
with regard to this section.

1802
01:25:12,105 --> 01:25:14,405
So can I have a motion to open public

1803
01:25:14,405 --> 01:25:15,405
Hearing?

1804
01:25:15,405 --> 01:25:16,325
Make a motion to open the public hearing

1805
01:25:16,345 --> 01:25:18,245
to discuss the proposed changes to the town

1806
01:25:18,245 --> 01:25:20,285
of dairy land development control regulations,

1807
01:25:20,715 --> 01:25:22,805
architectural design review regulations

1808
01:25:22,825 --> 01:25:26,765
to delete sections one 70 dash 84 A two C.

1809
01:25:26,865 --> 01:25:30,125
And to add subsection 1 70 86 dash

1810
01:25:31,175 --> 01:25:33,245
three design elements specific

1811
01:25:33,245 --> 01:25:35,605
to the central business district. Second,

1812
01:25:36,165 --> 01:25:37,925
Moved by church, seconded by Peir

1813
01:25:37,925 --> 01:25:40,885
to open the public hearing on the LDCR amendments.

1814
01:25:41,105 --> 01:25:43,645
All those in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Opposed? Say nay.

1815
01:25:43,705 --> 01:25:46,485
Public hearing is open and no one in the room.

1816
01:25:46,585 --> 01:25:49,325
Anyone online? Seeing none, Mr. Chair? Okay. Motion

1817
01:25:49,325 --> 01:25:50,485
To close. Second

1818
01:25:50,905 --> 01:25:53,565
Motion by Churchill, seconded by app Palantier

1819
01:25:53,565 --> 01:25:54,685
to close the public hearing.

1820
01:25:54,985 --> 01:25:57,565
All those in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Opposed? Nay.

1821
01:25:57,665 --> 01:25:59,125
Public hearing is closed. And

1822
01:25:59,125 --> 01:26:00,125
Mr.

1823
01:26:00,125 --> 01:26:01,525
Chairman, I have a finding of fact. Okay.

1824
01:26:02,315 --> 01:26:05,525
Move to find the proposed changes cor, correct

1825
01:26:05,865 --> 01:26:07,485
and oversight during creation

1826
01:26:07,485 --> 01:26:10,565
of the neighborhood commercial district in 2 20 25.

1827
01:26:11,305 --> 01:26:13,965
And the changes preserve the streetscape in the

1828
01:26:13,965 --> 01:26:15,005
central business district.

1829
01:26:15,265 --> 01:26:16,405
Second. Okay.

1830
01:26:17,185 --> 01:26:22,005
Motion to make findings of fact by Ello, second by pier.

1831
01:26:22,345 --> 01:26:26,445
Are we ready for a vote? Mr. Chase? Yes.

1832
01:26:26,865 --> 01:26:30,805
Mr. Wood? Yes. Mr. Menini? Yes. Mr. O'Connor? Yes. Mr. Mazi?

1833
01:26:30,825 --> 01:26:34,125
Yes. Mr. Ello? Yes. Pier? Yes. Chair votes? Yes.

1834
01:26:36,585 --> 01:26:40,485
Now, now move to approve the proposed changes to the town

1835
01:26:40,485 --> 01:26:43,125
of Dairy Land Development Control Regulations article.

1836
01:26:43,345 --> 01:26:45,085
What's the number? I'm not good at Roman numbers.

1837
01:26:46,465 --> 01:26:48,925
Oh, that is Article

1838
01:26:49,845 --> 01:26:50,885
1414.

1839
01:26:51,715 --> 01:26:53,845
Architectural design review regulations

1840
01:26:53,945 --> 01:26:58,205
to delete sections one 70 dash 84 A

1841
01:26:58,985 --> 01:27:00,085
two C.

1842
01:27:00,745 --> 01:27:02,045
And to add subsections.

1843
01:27:02,145 --> 01:27:06,085
One 70 dash 86.3 Design elements specific

1844
01:27:06,105 --> 01:27:08,885
to the central business district as presented this evening.

1845
01:27:09,065 --> 01:27:10,925
The changes become effective immediately.

1846
01:27:12,545 --> 01:27:14,845
So we have a motion by Mr. Church Cello

1847
01:27:14,845 --> 01:27:19,085
to approve the LDCR amendments seconded by App Pier

1848
01:27:19,805 --> 01:27:21,405
becomes effective this evening.

1849
01:27:22,105 --> 01:27:23,285
Do we want

1850
01:27:23,285 --> 01:27:25,725
to condition this in any way on the council actually

1851
01:27:25,755 --> 01:27:27,685
approving the zoning changes?

1852
01:27:33,135 --> 01:27:34,495
'cause otherwise this doesn't really make sense.

1853
01:27:34,515 --> 01:27:36,095
If, if that doesn't happen,

1854
01:27:38,635 --> 01:27:39,635
You could.

1855
01:27:39,635 --> 01:27:42,095
And then the changes would become, you would have

1856
01:27:42,095 --> 01:27:44,455
to amend the motion to say the changes would become

1857
01:27:44,455 --> 01:27:46,495
effective immediately.

1858
01:27:46,495 --> 01:27:50,375
Concurrent. Concurrent with the zoning changes. Yeah.

1859
01:27:50,515 --> 01:27:52,655
So move. Okay.

1860
01:27:52,655 --> 01:27:55,895
So we have a amendment to change the effectivity date

1861
01:27:56,135 --> 01:27:59,455
by Ello and seconded by Pier to make it concurrent

1862
01:27:59,525 --> 01:28:02,415
with the town council's effectivity date on the

1863
01:28:02,665 --> 01:28:04,375
underlying zoning changes.

1864
01:28:05,555 --> 01:28:10,375
Any discussion on that? Mr. Chase? Yes. Mr. Wood? Yes. Mr.

1865
01:28:10,515 --> 01:28:14,815
Menini? Yes. Mr. O'Connor? Yes. Mr. Mazi? Yes. Mr. Ello?

1866
01:28:14,955 --> 01:28:17,575
Yes. Mr. Pier? Yes. And the chair votes? Yes.

1867
01:28:17,635 --> 01:28:22,495
Now on the amended motion. Mr. Chase? Yes. Mr. Wood?

1868
01:28:22,675 --> 01:28:27,375
Yes. Mr. Menini? Yes. Mr. O'Connor? Yes. Mr. Mazi? Yes. Mr.

1869
01:28:27,615 --> 01:28:29,775
Ello? Yes. Pier? Yes. Chair votes? Yes.

1870
01:28:32,215 --> 01:28:35,095
I think that finishes our public hearing business. Yes.

1871
01:28:39,635 --> 01:28:40,775
Is there any board member comments?

1872
01:28:45,085 --> 01:28:46,855
Make a motion to adjourn. Second,

1873
01:28:47,615 --> 01:28:48,615
Move by chair.

1874
01:28:48,615 --> 01:28:51,695
Second by Palantir to adjourn. All those in favor say aye.

1875
01:28:51,955 --> 01:28:55,215
Aye. Aye. Stand adjourned. Thank you very much gentlemen.

1876
01:28:55,485 --> 01:28:56,815
Okay, I see you door and lady.