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September 16th, 2026.

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We start our meetings with the Pledge of Allegiance.

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If you would rise and join me,

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I pledge allegiance to the flag

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of United States of America

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and to the Republic for one Nation under our

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indigenous justice for role.

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So we'll start with some administrivia.

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The playing board continues to allow remote participation.

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If we have remote members,

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we will do vote roll call votes for the public.

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To attend the meeting, you go to www.zoom.us.

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Enter your meeting ID

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seven five four six six three nine one two.

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You may also call in by phone for audio only.

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You may call area code (646) 558-8656.

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Same meeting ID 7 5 4 6 6 3 9 1 2.

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If you are experiencing technical difficulties, please

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call our local number here in the room.

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6 0 3 8 4 5 5 5 8 5.

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If you are on the phone and wish to speak, toggle star nine

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to raise your hand and then toggle star six

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to unmute yourself Once you have been recognized,

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I will introduce the members

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and staff who are present this evening.

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To my far right are our alternates. Mr. Mousy. Mr. Appleton.

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Good evening. And Mr. Young.

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Good evening, our planning director, Ms. Du.

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Good evening, our planning clerk. Ms. Wilson.

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Good evening town Council liaison, Mr. Chase.

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Good evening, member Mr. Wood. Evening member. Mr. Menini.

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Good evening. To my far left is Mr.

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Viner who does all the wonderful video for us.

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We thank you for that. Good evening member, Mr. Pier.

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Good evening Secretary. Mr. Maby. Hello.

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We are missing vice chair Mr. O'Connor.

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And I would like to sit Mr. Ey, for, for John, please.

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We're also missing Mr. Fishman.

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So we can seat Mr. Appleton.

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At least for the voting portion. Mr.

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Cella was absent, but he doesn't have not have an alternate.

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First item of business is escrow.

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We have item number 26 dash 33. Steven Marquee.

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Okay. This is for the proposed car wash at

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10 Manchester Road.

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The escrow type is a performance bond.

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The request is to establish a performance bond number

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0 2 7 8 1 3 8 issued by Berkeley

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Insurance Company in the amount

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of $262,928 81 cents.

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For the above noted project.

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There will be no expiration date on the bond.

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So moved And moved by Al.

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Be seconded by Pier to accept the bond as presented.

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Any questions? Mr. Chase? Yes. Mr. Wood? Yes. Mr. Mni?

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Yes. Mr. Ey? Yes. Mr.

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Appleton? Yes. Mr. Pier? Yes. Mr. Malvin? Yes.

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The chair of votes? Yes. Second item on the agenda is

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item number 26 dash 34 FW Holdings.

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Okay. This was for the subdivision

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of five Mount Pleasant Street.

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The escrow type was cash, escrow

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property location was five Mount Pleasant Street.

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The request is to approve a final release

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of cash escrow in the amount of $22,885.

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For the above noted project, the amount to retain is zero.

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So moved. Moved by ee, seconded by Pelletier to

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approve the escrow as presented.

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Mr. Chase? Yes. Mr. Wood? Yes. Mr. Menini? Yes. Mr. Mousey?

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Yes. Mr. Appleton? Yes. Mr. Peltier? Yes. Mr. Malam? Yes.

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Chair votes? Yes. And we then

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move on to the minutes of September 2nd.

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Has everyone had a chance to review them?

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Are there any errors or omissions?

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Motion to approve the minutes as written.

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Second. Motion by ee, seconded by Pier

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to approve the minutes of September 2nd, 2026 as written.

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Mr. Chase? Yes. Mr. Wood. I'll abstain as I was not here.

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Mr. Menini? Yes. Mr. Mousy? Yes. Mr. Appleton? Yes.

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Mr. Peltier? Yes. Mr. Mal? Yes.

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Chair votes Yes. Correspondence.

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Mr. Chair, we have one piece

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of correspondence today from the town of Salem.

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Jacob LaFontaine. They're planning director.

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It's a notice to the abutters just letting us know

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that there's gonna be a master plan update 3.0

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for the West Village project.

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And the next date it's on the agenda is, I believe

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that's Tuesday, 9 22 7 o'clock at the Salem Town Hall

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if you'd like to hear about it.

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Thank you very much. Under other business we

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just have planning director and chairman updates.

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Okay. So very quickly,

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I wanted to let you know we did receive,

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or the building department received an application

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for the installation of 15 EV chargers at 33 Chester Road,

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which is the first student busti.

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We permit EV chargers in any parking lot that has six

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or more parking spaces.

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So we're determining that so long as the

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electrical structures that need to be, you know,

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the box they need to build to put all the

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electrical things in.

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And then the chargers themselves would just require a

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building permit rather than planning board review.

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Okay. But I did wanna let you know,

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so when people see activity there, that's what's happening.

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Southern New Hampshire Planning Commission's annual meeting

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will be next Thursday the 24th at Bevan in London Dairy

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that starts at four o'clock.

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This is their, it's the 60th year I'm looking. Yeah. Okay.

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They're celebrating their 60th year planning board members.

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You are invited. We would just need to know if you wanted

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to attend or not so that we could secure a seat for you.

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We would need to know that probably no

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later than Monday or Tuesday.

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The very latest.

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Okay. Everyone got that? Great.

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I don't have any updates. So we now have a workshop.

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I'm gonna suggest that Mr. Young sit with us.

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He will not actually be seated as a voting member.

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I don't expect we'll actually take any votes.

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But if we do, we'll just skip over you.

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My proposal is that we actually do an old fashioned workshop

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where everyone contributes rather than just

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reviewing a draft and, and nodding.

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You have several reference items.

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Some from staff,

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some from the New Hampshire Municipal Association.

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We should look at each section of law.

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And you know, the NHMA legal staff has said,

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well, what must you do?

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What can you do and what you must not do?

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So I think it's important to review all of those pieces

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of guidance and then figure out what it is we propose to do.

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Does that work for everyone? Absolutely. Sweet.

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I'm just nodding that.

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Well, you know, I, I am capable of doing Anyone, anyone?

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Ler. Ler. Yeah. So, okay.

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Do you want to lead us through this?

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I noticed that we've got a markup. Yes. A couple.

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I have a couple of different markups. Okay.

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And at least mm, the ones I have begin with definitions.

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Yes. So do you want you, do you want me

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to skip the staff report?

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'cause you've, you have all seen it in read it or do you

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Yeah, no, let's just, just get right

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into it and you can kind of Okay.

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Alright. Bring up the selling points as we get there. Okay.

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So attached to the staff report, you did have a draft.

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You all have a more red draft, which is the,

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the words are exactly the same.

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The more red draft is the one you wanna look at

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because it actually shows the changes that we had.

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We were suggesting. So starting with definitions,

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state law has changed with regard to

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how we look at accessory dwelling units.

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So we are suggesting it no longer has to be,

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they, they changed the definition of how it is

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or attached within the principal dwelling unit.

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And you can also have a detached.

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So we've adjusted the definition of accessory dwelling unit

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to capture those changes.

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We have also added, there's changes to the childcare laws.

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So we have added a definition of childcare center.

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And that is a, to clarify, that is a group

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childcare agency.

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It is not one that is in the, like

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that someone would have in their home with up

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to six kids or so.

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So what we also did was we updated our daycare definition,

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our current, it had previously referred you

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to the group daycare.

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We want to make sure that we capture that childcare centers

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as defined would also under group daycare

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include our adult daycare.

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'cause that was something we had talked about

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having available previously.

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So we made those changes. So,

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Yep.

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I I think I'm gonna invite everyone to just jump in please.

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When you see something, rather than having group daycare,

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which includes childcare and adult daycare

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and then a separate childcare since we have a separate

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childcare, why don't we simply have a separate adult daycare

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and that way one's not kind

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of buried and nested in the other.

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That may mean that more words have to change. Okay.

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But I don't know whether one thinks nested definitions kind

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of are a little more confusing than

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standalone definitions, I thought.

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But I, I agree. Anyone feel the same way?

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Yeah, I I think it's, it's kind of unnecessary

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to have the group daycare that includes child and adult

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and then also have a single child definition rather than

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just having one child definition of one adult definition.

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Okay. Yeah. So let's, let's decide that,

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we'll, we'll do that.

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And, and we've had the adult daycare for a while, right?

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Or is that new?

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Lemme see. Well, we,

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we can get that answer, you know.

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Yeah. In a follow up look. Yeah.

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It sort of doesn't matter for the definitions. Yeah.

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I don't think, I'm not sure if we define,

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we may have defined at adult day care.

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Okay. Yeah. If we don't have a

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definition, we can create one.

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So we're gonna keep child care center

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and remove just daycare. 'cause it says see child,

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Well, a child care center and adult care center

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And Oh.

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Kinda make them symmetrical sounding

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and the, the definition

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and language can kind of mirror each other, I guess,

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other than child versus adult.

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Okay. And then group

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daycare care stays the same.

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I would or remove it. I would get rid of it.

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You have two kinds, child and and adult

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and I don't think there's a third kind.

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Right.

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Yeah. Family.

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Yeah, there's child, there's the child daycare centers,

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which are like the one on Shanita Road

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and then there's the family child centers,

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which are the more home occupation type.

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Alright. So group daycare as written does not

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have the word family in it. So

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Because family is, family is under a different,

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it's under a different set of laws under the state as, so

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they're, they've put, let me grab the,

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sorry.

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I am looking for the guidance from

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New Hampshire MA on that one.

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I didn't print that one out. They changed,

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they changed a whole bunch of state law definitions

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with regard to, they wanted to clarify what is,

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what do we consider family childcare so that those are the,

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you know, people who bring kids into their homes up

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to X number of STU students.

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I wanna say it used to be like six,

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but I think it may have gone up a little bit up to like 16.

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I think. Don't quote me on that.

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So that people had the ability to manage

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that in their homes, you know, kids on

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and off the bus, that type of thing.

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As opposed to the actual centers themselves

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where you would go and drop your kids off for the whole day.

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So is that a, a home occupation

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For the family childcare that's more of a home occupation?

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And is it something that the planning board reviews

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and has jurisdiction

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Over?

255
00:14:39,815 --> 00:14:42,055
We do, we do not, we don't review home occupations.

256
00:14:42,115 --> 00:14:43,175
The ZBA would.

257
00:14:43,925 --> 00:14:48,055
Okay. So that the, the definition is obviously shared

258
00:14:48,055 --> 00:14:50,095
between the planning board and the zoning board with regard

259
00:14:50,095 --> 00:14:51,365
to the zoning ordinance.

260
00:14:51,465 --> 00:14:55,845
So. Okay. Okay. Makes sense. Okay. Okay.

261
00:14:56,475 --> 00:14:58,085
Then there'll be a third one.

262
00:15:07,435 --> 00:15:08,495
And while you're taking that note,

263
00:15:08,495 --> 00:15:11,615
let me just go on Innovative housing structure,

264
00:15:13,095 --> 00:15:17,695
a unique single residential unit such as a tiny house,

265
00:15:18,125 --> 00:15:20,615
tiny house on wheels or a yurt.

266
00:15:21,605 --> 00:15:23,335
Does that come directly out of the statute?

267
00:15:24,195 --> 00:15:28,375
It it does, it does.

268
00:15:29,335 --> 00:15:31,455
Because innovative housing structure sounds a little,

269
00:15:32,495 --> 00:15:36,115
I don't know, meta

270
00:15:37,025 --> 00:15:38,025
Yeah.

271
00:15:38,025 --> 00:15:38,595
Meta description is opposed

272
00:15:38,595 --> 00:15:40,035
to an actual definition, but, okay.

273
00:15:40,035 --> 00:15:42,075
Yeah. So if it's in the statute, we better have it.

274
00:15:42,255 --> 00:15:44,995
It is in the statute. Let me just see if I,

275
00:15:45,145 --> 00:15:47,355
I'll pull out the actual words for you.

276
00:15:51,665 --> 00:15:53,595
Does the innovative housing structure

277
00:15:54,145 --> 00:15:56,475
exclusively include the tiny house,

278
00:15:56,475 --> 00:15:57,915
tiny house on wheels in yurt?

279
00:15:58,375 --> 00:16:02,435
Yes. So if you want to look at, I think it's HB 1681

280
00:16:04,335 --> 00:16:07,155
in your packet somewhere, you're gonna have to

281
00:16:07,665 --> 00:16:08,795
flip through and find that

282
00:16:10,145 --> 00:16:12,115
It's in that thick, It's in

283
00:16:12,115 --> 00:16:13,155
the, yeah, it's in the loss.

284
00:16:14,325 --> 00:16:17,435
Would it, would it be worth it then to in,

285
00:16:17,455 --> 00:16:20,715
in rather than saying such as a tiny house, just be like,

286
00:16:21,455 --> 00:16:22,675
No, they're, they're, That's

287
00:16:22,675 --> 00:16:23,795
the specific wording that they want.

288
00:16:24,865 --> 00:16:26,195
It's innovative.

289
00:16:26,615 --> 00:16:30,835
So chapter three 30, HB 1681,

290
00:16:31,405 --> 00:16:34,315
subsection two, innovative housing structure

291
00:16:34,455 --> 00:16:38,515
or IHS means a unique single residential unit

292
00:16:38,585 --> 00:16:39,675
such as tiny house Tiny.

293
00:16:39,975 --> 00:16:41,995
We took it right from the state definition.

294
00:16:44,185 --> 00:16:46,915
It's only those three. So innovative housing structure is

295
00:16:46,915 --> 00:16:48,035
those three at this time.

296
00:16:48,785 --> 00:16:51,315
Yeah. What what I kind of meant by that was it says

297
00:16:52,355 --> 00:16:55,515
a unique single residential unit such as a tiny house,

298
00:16:55,515 --> 00:16:57,835
tiny house on wheels or your, which kind of implies

299
00:16:57,835 --> 00:16:59,315
that there is more than those three things.

300
00:16:59,315 --> 00:17:01,755
Okay. And it's just giving examples.

301
00:17:02,655 --> 00:17:05,915
So does, I still can't follow the, the, the numbering.

302
00:17:05,915 --> 00:17:08,035
And there's no page numbers here. I

303
00:17:08,035 --> 00:17:08,755
Know. So

304
00:17:09,435 --> 00:17:13,315
Which, which HB is it in 1681? Eight numbers are at

305
00:17:13,315 --> 00:17:17,035
The top 16 Towards the back

306
00:17:18,495 --> 00:17:19,875
Six pages from the back.

307
00:17:20,495 --> 00:17:22,395
So 16 81, 81. Yep.

308
00:17:22,855 --> 00:17:23,075
All

309
00:17:28,535 --> 00:17:31,555
nor shall it include an innovative housing structure

310
00:17:31,675 --> 00:17:34,515
pursuant to 6 74 81.

311
00:17:39,855 --> 00:17:42,315
So 6 74 81 is where

312
00:17:52,355 --> 00:17:53,765
it's probably in this book.

313
00:17:54,385 --> 00:17:55,405
6 74 81.

314
00:18:00,475 --> 00:18:03,295
It's not this right here. Is it 6 74

315
00:18:03,295 --> 00:18:07,015
0.810, Okay.

316
00:18:07,035 --> 00:18:08,035
Is it? Yeah,

317
00:18:09,595 --> 00:18:10,595
Number four.

318
00:18:10,835 --> 00:18:14,575
So yeah, they're amending, they're amending 6 74

319
00:18:14,755 --> 00:18:17,535
and they're adding a new section in the RSA.

320
00:18:17,835 --> 00:18:19,295
So it's not in the blue book yet.

321
00:18:24,555 --> 00:18:26,935
Oh, I just didn't see that. This was 6 74 81. Okay.

322
00:18:27,735 --> 00:18:30,175
Innovative housing structure shall be treated.

323
00:18:33,035 --> 00:18:35,495
Yes. But that doesn't define them.

324
00:18:36,515 --> 00:18:38,535
The, the section that uses the language

325
00:18:38,535 --> 00:18:42,415
that we're looking at is line seven of this

326
00:18:43,325 --> 00:18:44,815
1681 bill.

327
00:18:48,975 --> 00:18:50,145
Okay. Line seven.

328
00:18:50,855 --> 00:18:54,745
It's section Roman two

329
00:18:55,965 --> 00:18:57,355
innovating housing structure

330
00:18:57,415 --> 00:19:00,555
or IHS means a single unique single residential unit such

331
00:19:00,555 --> 00:19:02,155
as a tiny house, tiny house on wheels

332
00:19:02,155 --> 00:19:03,675
that were a yurt. Alright,

333
00:19:03,675 --> 00:19:07,355
So it's done on, It's the, so this is,

334
00:19:07,355 --> 00:19:08,675
this is the exact language from

335
00:19:08,675 --> 00:19:09,755
the bill is what we're pulling, which

336
00:19:09,755 --> 00:19:12,475
It's chapter three 30, HB

337
00:19:13,825 --> 00:19:15,515
1681, page two.

338
00:19:16,805 --> 00:19:18,035
Index number what? Seven?

339
00:19:19,265 --> 00:19:20,355
It's line seven. Yes.

340
00:19:20,425 --> 00:19:20,955
Line seven

341
00:19:25,485 --> 00:19:26,465
mm Let's

342
00:19:26,495 --> 00:19:27,495
Stop.

343
00:19:27,885 --> 00:19:30,825
That's Exactly this innovative housing,

344
00:19:32,105 --> 00:19:33,105
This Red.

345
00:19:33,105 --> 00:19:34,075
Alright, so is exactly that.

346
00:19:34,105 --> 00:19:36,555
This is not the same page that I'm on

347
00:19:39,555 --> 00:19:42,275
Because That's

348
00:19:42,275 --> 00:19:43,595
What he's referring.

349
00:19:44,825 --> 00:19:47,115
Okay. Let's be, yeah, let's be innovative

350
00:19:47,115 --> 00:19:48,115
Housing.

351
00:19:48,115 --> 00:19:48,595
Yep. Right here. Line seven.

352
00:19:51,795 --> 00:19:54,355
I wish they put unique line numbers on all the pages.

353
00:19:54,455 --> 00:19:58,955
But anyway, so innovative housing structure

354
00:19:59,015 --> 00:20:03,675
or IHS means a single unique residential unit such

355
00:20:03,735 --> 00:20:07,435
as a tiny house, tiny house on wheels or a yurt.

356
00:20:08,835 --> 00:20:10,755
I suppose my complaint is more about the wording

357
00:20:10,755 --> 00:20:11,835
of the original bill then.

358
00:20:12,155 --> 00:20:13,475
'cause this just seems to imply

359
00:20:13,475 --> 00:20:15,315
that there are more things than those three.

360
00:20:15,425 --> 00:20:17,035
Yeah, well they're just giving examples.

361
00:20:17,035 --> 00:20:18,955
Whereas there is not more than those three things.

362
00:20:18,955 --> 00:20:21,075
Those are the only three that are added.

363
00:20:21,415 --> 00:20:23,675
So we can always ponder

364
00:20:23,705 --> 00:20:27,035
what legislative services meant when they drafted it.

365
00:20:28,985 --> 00:20:33,275
Typically, when they say such as, or such as,

366
00:20:33,415 --> 00:20:34,435
but not limited to,

367
00:20:34,535 --> 00:20:36,275
it really means there could be other things.

368
00:20:38,375 --> 00:20:41,155
How do those other things get to come into play?

369
00:20:42,115 --> 00:20:45,175
Probably through a court proceeding would be my guess.

370
00:20:45,675 --> 00:20:47,670
So it's mainly more just them predicting

371
00:20:47,670 --> 00:20:48,860
that there will be additional items.

372
00:20:49,785 --> 00:20:52,885
But if it says such as in the statute, we probably need

373
00:20:52,885 --> 00:20:54,485
to follow that and include it.

374
00:20:54,485 --> 00:20:56,605
Even though we don't necessarily mean

375
00:20:57,035 --> 00:20:58,165
know exactly what they meant.

376
00:20:58,755 --> 00:21:02,245
Fair enough. Yeah.

377
00:21:02,245 --> 00:21:03,605
And the reason I couldn't find it in, in the

378
00:21:04,315 --> 00:21:07,085
statute book is it's a new, a new section.

379
00:21:09,035 --> 00:21:11,485
Okay. So that kind of explains where that came from.

380
00:21:15,255 --> 00:21:17,165
Given that we've copied it directly outta the statute.

381
00:21:17,365 --> 00:21:18,845
I assume there's no objection to any of that,

382
00:21:22,015 --> 00:21:23,625
even if there's potential confusion.

383
00:21:26,225 --> 00:21:27,825
I mean, my confusion is how, how,

384
00:21:27,885 --> 00:21:30,705
how do you grant a building permit for a yurt?

385
00:21:34,185 --> 00:21:36,385
I thought a yurt was just kind of a, a tent with,

386
00:21:36,605 --> 00:21:38,385
You know, it's like MRI tenting,

387
00:21:38,385 --> 00:21:40,265
I, you know, it's like A light wood structure

388
00:21:40,295 --> 00:21:41,745
with like Yeah.

389
00:21:42,645 --> 00:21:43,985
So hide Or flesh.

390
00:21:44,425 --> 00:21:45,585
I predict litigation on this one.

391
00:21:45,585 --> 00:21:48,585
But anyway, tiny house,

392
00:21:50,575 --> 00:21:51,705
does that come from the same?

393
00:21:52,085 --> 00:21:54,385
It does. Okay.

394
00:21:54,385 --> 00:21:55,945
That's on line 17 of

395
00:21:55,945 --> 00:21:59,385
that same on numbered page.

396
00:21:59,405 --> 00:22:01,145
The fir the first page of chapter three 30

397
00:22:06,105 --> 00:22:08,095
means a detached building used

398
00:22:08,155 --> 00:22:11,775
or intended to be used for human habitation providing

399
00:22:12,375 --> 00:22:14,895
permanent provisions for living, sleeping, eating, cooking.

400
00:22:20,295 --> 00:22:23,155
I'm, I'm, as, I'm curious as to why,

401
00:22:25,175 --> 00:22:28,195
if the statute goes on at some length,

402
00:22:30,735 --> 00:22:32,315
why we didn't just copy it verbatim.

403
00:22:33,135 --> 00:22:37,235
We can be, as I'm reading ahead to the proposed,

404
00:22:37,385 --> 00:22:41,275
like the next page for innovative, we have a conflict

405
00:22:41,275 --> 00:22:44,755
because it says tiny houses can be 600 square feet or less.

406
00:22:45,855 --> 00:22:46,275
And then

407
00:22:49,735 --> 00:22:51,025
they must have changed that.

408
00:22:51,265 --> 00:22:53,545
'cause I have like four, I had written 400.

409
00:22:53,615 --> 00:22:54,825
That might have been a typo.

410
00:22:55,125 --> 00:22:59,505
So we could do, I think

411
00:23:06,395 --> 00:23:07,885
yeah, we can, we can add that.

412
00:23:08,525 --> 00:23:12,765
I think putting dimensions in a definition can be

413
00:23:12,765 --> 00:23:15,525
problematic because if someone wants something larger,

414
00:23:16,515 --> 00:23:20,205
then they're asking for a variance from the definition.

415
00:23:25,275 --> 00:23:29,365
Well, yeah. I, at least to me though,

416
00:23:29,365 --> 00:23:31,845
this definition would seem to apply to any house

417
00:23:32,275 --> 00:23:34,645
because there's no specification

418
00:23:34,645 --> 00:23:36,085
that it needs to be of any size.

419
00:23:36,185 --> 00:23:37,885
Or why is it a tiny,

420
00:23:38,145 --> 00:23:40,765
any house built in dairy currently would be a living space

421
00:23:40,765 --> 00:23:43,285
permanently constructed on a stable surface designed

422
00:23:43,285 --> 00:23:44,845
for using his permanent living corners.

423
00:23:45,675 --> 00:23:47,525
That would, that would be every house endeavor.

424
00:23:47,525 --> 00:23:49,685
Well that's a very good And maybe the,

425
00:23:49,745 --> 00:23:52,365
the 600 feet square feet is the actual

426
00:23:52,385 --> 00:23:53,725
unique definition of tiny.

427
00:23:54,195 --> 00:23:58,045
Okay. So we can I can add those three items into the,

428
00:23:59,235 --> 00:24:00,565
into the definition then. Yeah.

429
00:24:00,565 --> 00:24:03,605
My, my feeling is that I know you want

430
00:24:03,605 --> 00:24:06,205
to make it sound simpler than it is.

431
00:24:08,375 --> 00:24:09,445
Maybe not a good idea.

432
00:24:09,445 --> 00:24:13,885
When the statute has potentially convoluted wording

433
00:24:14,225 --> 00:24:16,645
and, and we are asking our boards

434
00:24:16,645 --> 00:24:20,205
to work off a simplified version, that means at some level,

435
00:24:20,205 --> 00:24:24,415
even though it might be not

436
00:24:24,585 --> 00:24:26,775
meaningful in most cases, there's a disconnect.

437
00:24:29,615 --> 00:24:31,855
I would lean toward just cloning

438
00:24:32,835 --> 00:24:35,575
the statutory definition.

439
00:24:35,635 --> 00:24:38,535
And, and when they, they have it in, in a section

440
00:24:39,155 --> 00:24:41,135
6 74, 81 definitions.

441
00:24:41,605 --> 00:24:43,295
Okay. So they're defining it. Okay.

442
00:24:43,305 --> 00:24:46,495
We'll edit In. I I would, I would not try

443
00:24:46,495 --> 00:24:48,575
to improve on the works of the general court.

444
00:24:48,895 --> 00:24:51,215
'cause that's one of the ways you get yourself into trouble.

445
00:24:51,405 --> 00:24:52,405
Okay.

446
00:24:54,055 --> 00:24:56,375
I think the sanitation is important to include that too.

447
00:25:01,475 --> 00:25:03,775
See that at the end of 18,

448
00:25:07,175 --> 00:25:08,255
I mean if you want to,

449
00:25:12,095 --> 00:25:14,675
if you want to have a short definition in the zoning,

450
00:25:15,735 --> 00:25:17,195
you could have a short definition

451
00:25:17,335 --> 00:25:20,435
and then add at the end as further specified

452
00:25:21,335 --> 00:25:25,195
in RSA 6 74 81, you know,

453
00:25:25,725 --> 00:25:26,835
Roman four.

454
00:25:28,625 --> 00:25:31,475
That way someone can't just say, oh this is all there is.

455
00:25:31,475 --> 00:25:33,955
No, I have to go read the law. If you wanna save some,

456
00:25:35,105 --> 00:25:36,875
some characters do a reference.

457
00:25:37,015 --> 00:25:38,475
But I wouldn't just leave it

458
00:25:38,635 --> 00:25:39,635
Dangling.

459
00:25:39,635 --> 00:25:41,355
Yeah, no, especially where these are starting

460
00:25:41,355 --> 00:25:42,395
to become more popular.

461
00:25:42,625 --> 00:25:45,835
It's probably better to put the whole definition in there so

462
00:25:45,835 --> 00:25:47,635
that it's clear for the general public.

463
00:25:49,235 --> 00:25:50,795
'cause it would be asking a lot for the,

464
00:25:50,795 --> 00:25:52,115
they'd be like, well I don't know where to find that law.

465
00:25:52,735 --> 00:25:54,515
Ask you a lot for the public to know how

466
00:25:54,515 --> 00:25:55,635
to use Google. Well,

467
00:25:55,865 --> 00:25:57,275
Well they could, I don't know.

468
00:25:57,275 --> 00:25:59,315
Sometimes Google doesn't, can be asking a lot.

469
00:25:59,315 --> 00:26:00,755
Give you the, give you the right answer.

470
00:26:00,785 --> 00:26:05,075
Okay. I I stand direct it. I'm sorry. Yeah.

471
00:26:05,195 --> 00:26:06,595
I think the safest thing

472
00:26:06,595 --> 00:26:08,955
to do is just clone the whole thing.

473
00:26:08,955 --> 00:26:10,635
Alright, we'll do that. And I think that would go for

474
00:26:11,455 --> 00:26:12,595
all of these definitions.

475
00:26:15,455 --> 00:26:19,115
For example, you yurt says a round freestanding structure,

476
00:26:19,935 --> 00:26:24,235
but the statute says a style of tiny house that is round

477
00:26:24,335 --> 00:26:25,435
or similar shape.

478
00:26:28,975 --> 00:26:30,675
So they don't really say the same thing.

479
00:26:30,915 --> 00:26:34,315
'cause the similar shape could mean, you know, oval octagon

480
00:26:34,535 --> 00:26:37,555
or octagonal or ellipsoidal.

481
00:26:37,715 --> 00:26:40,675
I mean, so I think we wanna be careful Okay.

482
00:26:40,785 --> 00:26:43,605
That if the state is issuing a definition,

483
00:26:44,555 --> 00:26:45,725
we'd literally clone it.

484
00:26:45,795 --> 00:26:50,505
Okay. 'cause I think that, I don't wanna speak

485
00:26:50,505 --> 00:26:52,385
for the planning board, I don't wanna speak for the ZBA,

486
00:26:52,385 --> 00:26:54,265
but if someone is, is going solely by this

487
00:26:54,805 --> 00:26:57,025
and isn't aware what the definition says,

488
00:26:57,025 --> 00:26:59,585
and then the, the lawyer who's representing the applicant's,

489
00:26:59,645 --> 00:27:01,905
ah, but that's not what the state law says.

490
00:27:02,175 --> 00:27:06,665
That just gets us looking bad, so. Got it. Right. Yeah.

491
00:27:06,885 --> 00:27:09,135
Yep. Okay. Okay.

492
00:27:09,195 --> 00:27:11,055
And as she said too, these yurts

493
00:27:11,055 --> 00:27:14,775
and tiny houses are starting to become, starting

494
00:27:14,775 --> 00:27:15,855
to see them, they're starting to become

495
00:27:15,855 --> 00:27:16,855
Hard.

496
00:27:16,855 --> 00:27:17,375
Well, yeah, I mean tiny houses certainly.

497
00:27:17,375 --> 00:27:19,335
I I, again, I don't, I don't know how you put heating

498
00:27:19,675 --> 00:27:20,895
and plumbing in a yurt

499
00:27:21,375 --> 00:27:23,935
or maybe someone who is, is in, you know,

500
00:27:24,215 --> 00:27:25,775
construction trades can enlighten me.

501
00:27:25,895 --> 00:27:26,855
'cause maybe I, maybe I'm,

502
00:27:26,915 --> 00:27:28,135
I'm thinking too simple there, but

503
00:27:30,255 --> 00:27:32,295
I think a yurts just basically a round

504
00:27:32,365 --> 00:27:34,135
tiny house at this point. Yeah,

505
00:27:34,685 --> 00:27:35,685
Yeah.

506
00:27:35,685 --> 00:27:38,455
Neither of these definitions specify, unlike the tiny house

507
00:27:39,725 --> 00:27:41,375
that this needs to be on a,

508
00:27:41,615 --> 00:27:43,175
a permanent foundation or anything.

509
00:27:43,355 --> 00:27:46,015
So that, so what we can just like drive stakes in your yard

510
00:27:46,155 --> 00:27:47,495
and call it a yurt.

511
00:27:48,475 --> 00:27:50,295
That's, that's an interesting addition.

512
00:27:50,405 --> 00:27:54,295
Well, yes, it's is a freestanding structure modeled

513
00:27:54,295 --> 00:27:58,865
after traditional nomadic dwellings, which to me means,

514
00:27:59,005 --> 00:28:00,505
you know, you can pick it up

515
00:28:00,505 --> 00:28:02,145
and put it on your pack horse and move it.

516
00:28:02,985 --> 00:28:04,305
Yeah. The only thing I can think of is

517
00:28:04,305 --> 00:28:07,465
that including the engineering for use as a permanent

518
00:28:07,465 --> 00:28:09,505
or long-term residence might imply that there needs

519
00:28:09,505 --> 00:28:10,545
to be some kind

520
00:28:10,545 --> 00:28:12,465
of concrete foundation or something. So I, I

521
00:28:12,465 --> 00:28:14,225
Think we, we do need to be a little bit careful about

522
00:28:14,225 --> 00:28:19,025
whether or not we think that we have statutory authority

523
00:28:19,165 --> 00:28:21,785
to require that the tiny houses

524
00:28:21,925 --> 00:28:24,865
and the, especially the yurts have self-contained

525
00:28:24,945 --> 00:28:26,025
sanitary facilities

526
00:28:27,055 --> 00:28:28,585
That would be under the building code.

527
00:28:33,595 --> 00:28:37,175
Oh, that's always interesting when land use

528
00:28:37,235 --> 00:28:38,695
and the building code collide.

529
00:28:39,455 --> 00:28:41,375
Although I usually wanna walk away from that, but Yeah.

530
00:28:42,055 --> 00:28:45,375
Although I, I did just notice that it, it seems the way

531
00:28:45,375 --> 00:28:46,575
that this is written is that

532
00:28:47,485 --> 00:28:49,815
tiny house is an overarching category

533
00:28:49,955 --> 00:28:53,015
and tiny house on wheels and u are within that category.

534
00:28:53,595 --> 00:28:54,855
So the, the well,

535
00:28:54,855 --> 00:28:57,775
because it says a style of tiny house for both of them

536
00:28:58,975 --> 00:29:02,655
implying that maybe they are also under the same constraints

537
00:29:02,675 --> 00:29:04,215
or requirements of the

538
00:29:04,415 --> 00:29:05,415
Previous tiny house.

539
00:29:05,415 --> 00:29:07,495
That's, that's true. Although the, at the roman numeral

540
00:29:08,515 --> 00:29:13,495
top level section number under colon 81 tiny house is four

541
00:29:14,075 --> 00:29:15,295
and your is six.

542
00:29:15,395 --> 00:29:19,935
So they, they appear to be on the same hierarchy level

543
00:29:20,235 --> 00:29:21,295
of the, of the law.

544
00:29:21,795 --> 00:29:22,935
So that's confusing.

545
00:29:26,215 --> 00:29:28,655
I would recommend just copy everything will do straight out

546
00:29:28,655 --> 00:29:32,855
of the state law and then if anyone is confused, say,

547
00:29:32,955 --> 00:29:34,095
oh, go ask a lawyer,

548
00:29:35,115 --> 00:29:36,115
We can do that.

549
00:29:36,115 --> 00:29:37,085
Okay.

550
00:29:37,525 --> 00:29:38,535
I'll talk to your representative.

551
00:29:39,365 --> 00:29:43,365
Okay. So we can, we can then move on to the next page.

552
00:29:44,665 --> 00:29:48,485
So this, one of the changes was that they wanted to

553
00:29:49,995 --> 00:29:54,565
protect Existing single family structures

554
00:29:54,785 --> 00:29:56,445
in their existing setbacks.

555
00:29:56,445 --> 00:29:58,565
So, so that,

556
00:29:59,085 --> 00:30:01,485
I think municipalities couldn't come in afterwards

557
00:30:01,585 --> 00:30:05,085
and say, well, we're only gonna apply it

558
00:30:05,105 --> 00:30:06,845
to new single family dwellings

559
00:30:06,845 --> 00:30:08,405
or dwellings that, you know,

560
00:30:08,405 --> 00:30:10,285
meet the applicable setbacks now.

561
00:30:11,505 --> 00:30:14,085
So they have said that if you have a lot

562
00:30:14,085 --> 00:30:16,765
that has a single family detached dwelling

563
00:30:16,765 --> 00:30:20,285
that is in existence as of July 1st, 2025,

564
00:30:21,145 --> 00:30:22,245
you can have an A DU.

565
00:30:23,005 --> 00:30:25,205
The A DU of course would have to meet setbacks,

566
00:30:25,225 --> 00:30:29,605
but we wouldn't as, we wouldn't have to make

567
00:30:30,875 --> 00:30:35,245
them go for variances like setback variance in things.

568
00:30:35,535 --> 00:30:38,725
Especially if they were doing it internally

569
00:30:39,685 --> 00:30:41,125
because they're adding that internally.

570
00:30:41,235 --> 00:30:44,835
They don't want you to have to jump through a lot of hoops

571
00:30:44,935 --> 00:30:46,275
to have to get that permitted.

572
00:30:46,575 --> 00:30:48,555
So they're taking away some of the roadblocks.

573
00:30:49,055 --> 00:30:50,115
So it's just, and,

574
00:30:50,115 --> 00:30:53,555
And when we are, are looking at this section, this applies

575
00:30:53,695 --> 00:30:57,275
to both attached and detached.

576
00:30:57,375 --> 00:30:59,395
Yes. Because it doesn't say one way or the other. Correct.

577
00:30:59,585 --> 00:31:00,585
Okay. Yeah.

578
00:31:05,005 --> 00:31:08,705
And then so we add, so at the top, we just under,

579
00:31:08,805 --> 00:31:10,585
you know, the, the the top piece we say,

580
00:31:10,585 --> 00:31:14,185
so if you're existing as of July 1st, 2025, that's okay.

581
00:31:14,965 --> 00:31:19,425
And then we add on language that says if you don't comply

582
00:31:19,425 --> 00:31:21,345
with current dimensional, we are,

583
00:31:21,405 --> 00:31:23,385
we can issue the permit if,

584
00:31:24,045 --> 00:31:26,345
and then I believe that language follows the

585
00:31:26,545 --> 00:31:30,065
RSAI Can double check that.

586
00:31:44,525 --> 00:31:49,025
6, 7, 4 6. So

587
00:31:51,285 --> 00:31:53,025
6, 7, 4.

588
00:31:53,845 --> 00:31:56,465
I'm reading what our proposed zoning ordinance is

589
00:31:56,465 --> 00:32:00,625
as the creation and an accessory dwelling unit on a lot

590
00:32:01,115 --> 00:32:05,305
containing a single family detached, dwelling

591
00:32:06,385 --> 00:32:09,305
existing as of the enact mandate shall be subject

592
00:32:09,305 --> 00:32:11,025
to all the following conditions.

593
00:32:15,575 --> 00:32:19,545
What the NHMA summary says

594
00:32:20,575 --> 00:32:25,305
that additionally any legal preexisting structures built

595
00:32:25,305 --> 00:32:28,705
before the enactment date that violate the current

596
00:32:29,565 --> 00:32:33,105
and existing zoning ordinances for setbacks and

597
00:32:33,105 --> 00:32:36,425
or lot coverage shall be permitted to be converted

598
00:32:36,425 --> 00:32:37,585
to an A DU by Right.

599
00:32:37,725 --> 00:32:39,885
That's not the same concept.

600
00:32:40,505 --> 00:32:42,805
Is that what we were looking at when we wrote this?

601
00:32:43,365 --> 00:32:47,765
Lemme see 6 74.

602
00:32:52,945 --> 00:32:54,845
So it's, I

603
00:32:58,505 --> 00:33:00,285
We should probably add language.

604
00:33:00,345 --> 00:33:01,925
So if you have a new one.

605
00:33:04,945 --> 00:33:08,805
So any legal structure that's being converted is vested

606
00:33:12,125 --> 00:33:15,425
and if they're preexisting non-conforming with regard to

607
00:33:15,945 --> 00:33:19,345
setbacks or lock coverage, they retain the Right,

608
00:33:19,345 --> 00:33:20,425
they're grandfathered.

609
00:33:20,525 --> 00:33:22,665
That's what, that's what the law says.

610
00:33:29,445 --> 00:33:29,665
So

611
00:33:29,775 --> 00:33:32,625
Yeah, I'm, I'm just, We may need to lay add language

612
00:33:32,625 --> 00:33:35,945
with regard to conversions to cover that vesting.

613
00:33:37,095 --> 00:33:41,585
Yeah. This document from

614
00:33:43,105 --> 00:33:46,425
NHMA seems to talk about

615
00:33:48,415 --> 00:33:53,145
conversions and it seems like the language of our

616
00:33:53,685 --> 00:33:58,465
zoning order in section 1 6 5 25 is about the requirements

617
00:33:59,485 --> 00:34:02,625
for creating them prior to

618
00:34:03,365 --> 00:34:07,025
the current chapter law.

619
00:34:08,085 --> 00:34:10,065
And it talks about all these other things

620
00:34:10,065 --> 00:34:11,945
that just aren't mentioned here.

621
00:34:13,205 --> 00:34:17,905
So I'm wondering if it does need to be a,

622
00:34:18,065 --> 00:34:21,235
a whole separate section on,

623
00:34:22,815 --> 00:34:25,155
on conversion and, and grandfathering

624
00:34:26,585 --> 00:34:28,275
Because Yeah, I think we need to,

625
00:34:28,475 --> 00:34:29,755
I do think we need to add that.

626
00:34:32,665 --> 00:34:33,665
Just looking to see,

627
00:34:41,655 --> 00:34:45,755
So this is HB 10 79.

628
00:34:45,875 --> 00:34:46,995
I guess we should find that right?

629
00:34:49,705 --> 00:34:51,955
Anybody have any idea where that is in this package?

630
00:34:57,905 --> 00:35:00,035
Okay, I found 10 79.

631
00:35:07,385 --> 00:35:08,395
It's right in the middle.

632
00:35:10,145 --> 00:35:11,755
Yeah, but are there any,

633
00:35:14,775 --> 00:35:18,315
so there is a a 25 dash 2 5 9 4?

634
00:35:18,395 --> 00:35:19,275
I don't know. I don't know if

635
00:35:19,275 --> 00:35:20,475
that's No, that's not a page number.

636
00:35:20,755 --> 00:35:23,075
I don't know. It looks like this

637
00:35:23,075 --> 00:35:28,075
guys, oh.

638
00:35:28,155 --> 00:35:30,035
Although they are in numer, the,

639
00:35:30,035 --> 00:35:31,355
the bills are in numerical order.

640
00:35:31,415 --> 00:35:36,115
So, so it says the bill

641
00:35:36,345 --> 00:35:38,685
expands the definition of accessory dwelling in this

642
00:35:38,685 --> 00:35:43,605
to allow them to be built within non-conforming structures.

643
00:35:51,695 --> 00:35:54,155
So this seems to talk about existing structures. Gotcha.

644
00:36:00,365 --> 00:36:01,985
If the existing structure does not comply

645
00:36:01,985 --> 00:36:04,265
with the dimensional requirements for setbacks

646
00:36:04,265 --> 00:36:05,425
or lock cup coverage

647
00:36:05,425 --> 00:36:08,785
of municipality may determine eligibility for placement

648
00:36:10,045 --> 00:36:12,985
of an accessory dwelling within an existing structure

649
00:36:13,125 --> 00:36:15,105
by requiring applicant for the building

650
00:36:15,165 --> 00:36:19,275
to demonstrate either it qualifies

651
00:36:19,275 --> 00:36:22,595
as preexisting or the existing structure

652
00:36:23,475 --> 00:36:24,555
received prior zoning approval.

653
00:36:24,935 --> 00:36:29,675
So if I read 10 79, it doesn't to me

654
00:36:30,745 --> 00:36:34,435
read in anything like section 1 65 25.

655
00:36:42,595 --> 00:36:43,565
What we do say

656
00:36:49,975 --> 00:36:50,795
we do say that

657
00:36:52,435 --> 00:36:57,275
I, They can

658
00:36:57,275 --> 00:37:00,315
be converted from existing structures in existence as

659
00:37:00,315 --> 00:37:05,155
of July 1 25, including detached garages, regardless

660
00:37:06,015 --> 00:37:08,475
of whether they violate current dimensional

661
00:37:08,615 --> 00:37:10,475
for setbacks or lock coverage. And where

662
00:37:10,475 --> 00:37:11,475
Does it say that? Which,

663
00:37:11,655 --> 00:37:14,595
So on in our text on page two,

664
00:37:15,595 --> 00:37:18,275
section 1 65 25 A.

665
00:37:26,665 --> 00:37:30,155
Okay. So the overall

666
00:37:32,585 --> 00:37:34,955
section says, shall be subject to all

667
00:37:34,955 --> 00:37:36,075
of the following conditions.

668
00:37:36,735 --> 00:37:39,835
And the first itemized condition says Oh, except

669
00:37:39,895 --> 00:37:42,665
for, okay.

670
00:37:43,085 --> 00:37:44,305
So yeah,

671
00:37:44,895 --> 00:37:45,985
It's a little confusing.

672
00:37:46,765 --> 00:37:49,225
So it soon, if, if a is triggered, does

673
00:37:49,225 --> 00:37:50,545
that mean you ignore the rest of them?

674
00:37:51,075 --> 00:37:52,345
Maybe we should.

675
00:37:55,565 --> 00:37:58,825
I'm thinking ought be a separate section just

676
00:37:58,825 --> 00:38:02,145
because the, the if and else of of Yeah.

677
00:38:02,295 --> 00:38:05,505
Well if, if it hits a, then you skip the rest of the,

678
00:38:06,005 --> 00:38:09,105
the section is a bit confusing.

679
00:38:09,185 --> 00:38:11,065
I mean it's, it's, it's more like code than,

680
00:38:11,065 --> 00:38:12,305
than regulations.

681
00:38:12,575 --> 00:38:14,745
What if we, what if we started with a

682
00:38:15,005 --> 00:38:17,025
and said accessory dwelling units

683
00:38:17,725 --> 00:38:20,665
may be converted from existing structures existing as

684
00:38:20,665 --> 00:38:23,665
of included, but not limiting to detached garages

685
00:38:23,845 --> 00:38:24,905
and complete that section

686
00:38:25,685 --> 00:38:29,985
and then make new structures shall meet the appropriate.

687
00:38:30,105 --> 00:38:32,065
I I'm, I'm gonna suggest you, you, you leave

688
00:38:32,965 --> 00:38:34,665
1 65 25 the way it is

689
00:38:34,665 --> 00:38:39,165
and create a 1 65 21 25 0.1 for

690
00:38:40,055 --> 00:38:41,965
conversion of accessory dwelling units.

691
00:38:43,185 --> 00:38:44,645
25. Okay.

692
00:38:44,705 --> 00:38:48,325
And then we can make innovative housing structures 25.2.

693
00:38:48,915 --> 00:38:49,915
Okay.

694
00:38:50,555 --> 00:38:52,085
Okay. Or whatever the numbering works.

695
00:38:52,145 --> 00:38:54,125
All, all I'm saying is maybe leave what we have alone

696
00:38:54,625 --> 00:38:58,125
and then add a new section that basically describes

697
00:38:58,155 --> 00:39:02,325
what happens in 1 65 25 A in a,

698
00:39:02,325 --> 00:39:04,965
in a standalone section so that Okay.

699
00:39:05,065 --> 00:39:08,365
It literally can say if it's not a conversion,

700
00:39:10,145 --> 00:39:12,325
it shall be subject to all of these conditions.

701
00:39:17,905 --> 00:39:21,645
And then I think it'll be clearer to folks which set

702
00:39:21,645 --> 00:39:22,845
of conditions they should be reading.

703
00:39:23,235 --> 00:39:24,235
Okay.

704
00:39:40,945 --> 00:39:43,475
Okay. We can do that. And what is the,

705
00:39:43,855 --> 00:39:48,495
so on the other page there's a whole new MA and B.

706
00:39:50,035 --> 00:39:54,695
Oh, so maybe that m goes in the,

707
00:39:55,995 --> 00:39:57,055
the new.one?

708
00:39:57,315 --> 00:39:58,455
Yep. Okay.

709
00:40:03,295 --> 00:40:07,425
Okay. Yeah, I think

710
00:40:07,425 --> 00:40:08,465
that's cleaner. Okay.

711
00:40:08,565 --> 00:40:09,465
We can do that.

712
00:40:14,155 --> 00:40:16,325
Just one quick note on that.

713
00:40:17,485 --> 00:40:21,715
M reading through HSB

714
00:40:22,735 --> 00:40:25,875
10 79, it looks like everything is, you know,

715
00:40:25,975 --> 00:40:26,995
at shall receive,

716
00:40:26,995 --> 00:40:30,475
we're essentially grandfathering all these existing dwellings.

717
00:40:30,475 --> 00:40:33,235
Right? So I'm thinking m should that be,

718
00:40:33,975 --> 00:40:35,755
if an existing structure does not comply

719
00:40:35,755 --> 00:40:37,755
with current dimensional requirements for setbacks

720
00:40:37,755 --> 00:40:40,835
and lock coverage, a building permit shall be issued.

721
00:40:44,065 --> 00:40:46,235
Well there it would be a shall there might be other

722
00:40:46,235 --> 00:40:48,755
reasons why a building permit wouldn't be issued.

723
00:40:53,125 --> 00:40:56,985
So here's just a, a medic question.

724
00:40:58,785 --> 00:41:02,145
Building permits are really under the, the police powers

725
00:41:02,165 --> 00:41:04,865
of the governing and legislative body, the council.

726
00:41:05,155 --> 00:41:07,745
Right. They're not controlled by the ZBA

727
00:41:07,745 --> 00:41:09,625
and they're not controlled by the planning board

728
00:41:10,235 --> 00:41:13,665
other than I guess the ZBA is an appellate agency.

729
00:41:13,855 --> 00:41:16,225
They are. Right. So

730
00:41:18,075 --> 00:41:19,175
let me ask a silly question.

731
00:41:19,275 --> 00:41:22,215
Why is the zoning ordinance talking about

732
00:41:22,215 --> 00:41:23,695
issuing building permits at all?

733
00:41:27,825 --> 00:41:28,535
Lemme see.

734
00:41:37,835 --> 00:41:40,485
Good question. I'm my, I'm, I'm thinking about this

735
00:41:40,485 --> 00:41:43,245
because up until recently,

736
00:41:44,065 --> 00:41:48,725
The, The, the law allowed up until recently,

737
00:41:49,275 --> 00:41:52,005
some of the powers of the building official was

738
00:41:52,605 --> 00:41:53,845
captured under 6 74.

739
00:41:53,905 --> 00:41:55,725
Six 70. Like the six seventies.

740
00:41:56,425 --> 00:41:58,565
So there it was in the land use regulations,

741
00:41:58,575 --> 00:42:01,485
which is why we, we have some building permit things

742
00:42:01,625 --> 00:42:02,765
in the zoning ordinance.

743
00:42:02,915 --> 00:42:06,445
Okay. The recent law change under 2 44

744
00:42:06,955 --> 00:42:10,405
just removed all of that and moved everything to 1 55.

745
00:42:10,905 --> 00:42:13,005
Ah, okay. So we haven't caught up with that part

746
00:42:13,005 --> 00:42:14,005
Either.

747
00:42:14,005 --> 00:42:14,445
No, we're still catching up.

748
00:42:14,545 --> 00:42:17,125
So we are, we're used to being able to say,

749
00:42:17,125 --> 00:42:19,965
well we can issue a building permit if you meet X, Y, and Z.

750
00:42:20,665 --> 00:42:23,725
But now everything is defaulting to 1 55

751
00:42:23,825 --> 00:42:26,045
and it's removed from the six seventies. And I presume

752
00:42:26,045 --> 00:42:28,605
That exists in some other complete chapter

753
00:42:28,715 --> 00:42:29,715
With the town code.

754
00:42:29,715 --> 00:42:32,325
It does whole, yeah. That 20, the 28 pages at the beginning

755
00:42:32,325 --> 00:42:34,285
of your packet is that removal.

756
00:42:35,355 --> 00:42:37,125
Yeah. Now I know that there are times

757
00:42:38,745 --> 00:42:41,925
Mr. Chase will remember that sometimes we talk about,

758
00:42:42,345 --> 00:42:45,045
you know, NFPA and fire code as it interacts with land use

759
00:42:45,625 --> 00:42:50,405
if it becomes one of those overlapping jurisdiction things.

760
00:42:51,145 --> 00:42:55,365
But I had typically tried to not specify in, in zoning

761
00:42:56,685 --> 00:42:59,925
anything that isn't deriving its power from the land

762
00:42:59,945 --> 00:43:01,405
use authority of statute.

763
00:43:01,905 --> 00:43:04,725
So otherwise it can get like, well who gets

764
00:43:04,725 --> 00:43:06,285
to have the final say? Yeah.

765
00:43:06,545 --> 00:43:10,645
Yep. So I'll look at, I'll look at that wording

766
00:43:10,645 --> 00:43:12,685
with regard to building permit may be issued

767
00:43:12,685 --> 00:43:15,645
and that whole new section will really more mimic

768
00:43:15,675 --> 00:43:17,965
what the law says and then we can go from there.

769
00:43:18,365 --> 00:43:19,925
Yeah. I think Mr. Melby is right.

770
00:43:19,925 --> 00:43:23,405
I think the law intends like Yeah, if if existing structure

771
00:43:23,425 --> 00:43:25,805
and they wanna make it a a amen to you,

772
00:43:26,105 --> 00:43:27,325
you gotta let 'em period.

773
00:43:28,265 --> 00:43:31,445
So do we, alright, do we want it to say shall

774
00:43:33,555 --> 00:43:36,245
Well, I guess the question is if we don't talk about

775
00:43:36,485 --> 00:43:37,805
building permits, we don't have to worry about

776
00:43:37,805 --> 00:43:38,925
the the verb do we?

777
00:43:39,355 --> 00:43:44,165
Okay. But my understanding is

778
00:43:44,235 --> 00:43:44,525
that,

779
00:43:58,345 --> 00:44:01,485
so it it says if an existing structure does not comply

780
00:44:01,485 --> 00:44:04,325
with current dimensional requirements for setbacks

781
00:44:04,325 --> 00:44:08,285
and lot coverage, a municipality may determine eligibility

782
00:44:08,385 --> 00:44:10,805
for placement of an accessory dwelling

783
00:44:12,085 --> 00:44:15,965
unit within an existing structure by requiring the applicant

784
00:44:16,405 --> 00:44:18,405
or building permit or for the building permit

785
00:44:18,405 --> 00:44:21,005
to demonstrate either one or two.

786
00:44:21,315 --> 00:44:21,605
Okay.

787
00:44:29,635 --> 00:44:31,445
So I think that's what you've done with,

788
00:44:31,445 --> 00:44:32,485
with A and B, right?

789
00:44:33,635 --> 00:44:35,525
Yeah. We'll we'll put that in the,

790
00:44:35,905 --> 00:44:36,925
So maybe just say,

791
00:44:37,185 --> 00:44:39,005
if the existing structure does not comply

792
00:44:39,005 --> 00:44:41,765
with current dimensional requirements or setbacks

793
00:44:41,765 --> 00:44:46,605
and coverage, the applicant shall demonstrate either a

794
00:44:47,445 --> 00:44:49,365
b that kind of mirrors the state law.

795
00:44:55,145 --> 00:44:57,325
Anyone have any other ideas on that?

796
00:44:58,875 --> 00:44:59,525
That makes sense.

797
00:45:03,825 --> 00:45:06,995
Okay. Okay. Okay.

798
00:45:07,895 --> 00:45:12,555
And then innovative housing structures,

799
00:45:12,965 --> 00:45:16,915
which is the ordinance that deals with the new definition.

800
00:45:16,915 --> 00:45:19,355
Innovative housing structures are tiny houses,

801
00:45:19,625 --> 00:45:21,395
tiny houses on wheels and yurts.

802
00:45:23,255 --> 00:45:25,075
The purpose of innovative housing structures,

803
00:45:27,255 --> 00:45:28,555
That's great English. Okay.

804
00:45:28,775 --> 00:45:29,915
Is Our to bring,

805
00:45:30,955 --> 00:45:31,955
I think it is.

806
00:45:31,955 --> 00:45:33,795
I I think it's single 'cause the purpose is

807
00:45:34,575 --> 00:45:35,575
Oh, Yep.

808
00:45:35,575 --> 00:45:38,275
To bring more housing opportunities into dairy.

809
00:45:38,845 --> 00:45:42,155
These shall be subject to the same in inspections

810
00:45:42,655 --> 00:45:46,835
as any single family dwelling under construction provided.

811
00:45:50,915 --> 00:45:55,485
Alright. So which chapter do we find

812
00:45:56,665 --> 00:45:57,845
the regulation for?

813
00:45:59,275 --> 00:46:00,275
Tiny houses.

814
00:46:01,225 --> 00:46:02,885
So this seems to be covering

815
00:46:02,995 --> 00:46:04,485
what was changed in the definition.

816
00:46:04,715 --> 00:46:08,965
1681. 1681. So let's find 1681 that's

817
00:46:08,965 --> 00:46:09,965
Towards the back.

818
00:46:09,965 --> 00:46:11,005
It's like six pages from the

819
00:46:11,005 --> 00:46:12,005
Back.

820
00:46:12,005 --> 00:46:14,245
Alright. 1681. Okay. Found it.

821
00:46:16,225 --> 00:46:20,245
So the bulk of it starts with

822
00:46:22,355 --> 00:46:26,085
that 3 31 new,

823
00:46:26,385 --> 00:46:28,485
new new section innovative housing.

824
00:46:31,265 --> 00:46:34,565
And then it's under 6 74 81 definitions.

825
00:46:34,575 --> 00:46:36,085
We've talked about the definitions

826
00:46:36,985 --> 00:46:40,405
and then I think we were moving on to 6 74 82.

827
00:46:40,965 --> 00:46:45,525
Location and use, which should be tracking

828
00:46:46,865 --> 00:46:50,045
what's in 1 65 25 dot something.

829
00:46:54,515 --> 00:46:57,845
Well, Do we wanna say innovative housing structures are

830
00:46:57,955 --> 00:47:00,765
tiny houses, tiny houses on wheels and yurts?

831
00:47:00,865 --> 00:47:01,965
Or should we say they,

832
00:47:02,385 --> 00:47:05,605
or should we say unique single

833
00:47:06,155 --> 00:47:08,645
residential units such as a tiny house,

834
00:47:08,675 --> 00:47:10,285
tiny house on wheel or a yurt?

835
00:47:10,985 --> 00:47:13,365
It, it seems like the state law definition

836
00:47:14,095 --> 00:47:15,445
could include other types.

837
00:47:16,245 --> 00:47:18,565
I, you know, I'm gonna, I'm going to

838
00:47:20,995 --> 00:47:23,445
give you two separate conflicting opinions on this.

839
00:47:24,745 --> 00:47:26,045
We Could remove the number one,

840
00:47:27,225 --> 00:47:29,645
if you have a definition, it's always better

841
00:47:29,665 --> 00:47:31,445
to refer back to the definition.

842
00:47:31,445 --> 00:47:32,965
That way you only have to change it one place.

843
00:47:32,965 --> 00:47:34,045
You don't have to find all the places

844
00:47:34,395 --> 00:47:35,605
that say the same thing.

845
00:47:37,305 --> 00:47:39,685
The contrary opinion is that, well

846
00:47:39,685 --> 00:47:41,685
that makes people flip back and forth in the book

847
00:47:41,685 --> 00:47:42,845
and they have to go find the definition

848
00:47:42,845 --> 00:47:44,885
and then they find that inconvenient so

849
00:47:44,885 --> 00:47:47,125
that there's pros and cons. Right.

850
00:47:47,385 --> 00:47:49,365
So maybe we just remove that first sentence

851
00:47:49,365 --> 00:47:50,725
because we've already defined it.

852
00:47:51,075 --> 00:47:53,445
That would be one solution. Yeah.

853
00:47:53,445 --> 00:47:54,325
What do people think on that?

854
00:47:55,035 --> 00:47:56,005
Yeah, I think that makes sense.

855
00:47:56,255 --> 00:47:56,845
Seems okay.

856
00:48:06,505 --> 00:48:06,995
Alright.

857
00:48:07,355 --> 00:48:12,315
Do we have something that's tracking 6 74 83? No,

858
00:48:13,215 --> 00:48:14,915
6 7 4 83.

859
00:48:23,935 --> 00:48:25,435
Seeing, does that really apply?

860
00:48:25,615 --> 00:48:28,595
That's Not really, I, I'm, I'm, there's really not much

861
00:48:28,815 --> 00:48:33,475
to 6 74 82.

862
00:48:33,475 --> 00:48:37,355
There's just Roman one, Roman two and it doesn't say much.

863
00:48:38,705 --> 00:48:39,705
Yeah. And,

864
00:48:39,705 --> 00:48:40,575
And we've got a lot of stuff.

865
00:48:40,735 --> 00:48:41,735
So where do we get that?

866
00:48:45,855 --> 00:48:49,235
6 7, 4 8 2

867
00:48:52,135 --> 00:48:53,075
Oh right here. Gotcha.

868
00:48:53,535 --> 00:48:56,915
So we talk about, so setbacks, they would have

869
00:48:56,915 --> 00:48:57,995
to meet the setbacks.

870
00:48:58,495 --> 00:48:59,495
And I think that's in the,

871
00:49:02,655 --> 00:49:04,195
Is that in another section of the statute?

872
00:49:05,535 --> 00:49:07,875
No, but any, I think any

873
00:49:08,095 --> 00:49:12,755
new location and

874
00:49:12,815 --> 00:49:15,355
Use, well, so it, it is just hand wavy.

875
00:49:15,355 --> 00:49:17,675
Right. So I'll, I'll, I'll read these 'cause they're short.

876
00:49:20,345 --> 00:49:22,035
It's subject To anything is allowed to be used

877
00:49:22,035 --> 00:49:26,195
as an accessory dwelling unit pursuant to 6 74 72.

878
00:49:26,195 --> 00:49:30,235
Subject to all applicable, applicable land use requirements.

879
00:49:30,975 --> 00:49:32,195
So you have to Meet subject, what

880
00:49:32,195 --> 00:49:34,115
what do we think is applicable in this sense.

881
00:49:34,695 --> 00:49:37,355
So that, that to me, I interpreted that to mean

882
00:49:38,385 --> 00:49:41,155
when you're talking about a structure, you're talking about

883
00:49:41,305 --> 00:49:43,355
what is its location on the lot.

884
00:49:43,455 --> 00:49:45,115
So it needs to meet the setbacks.

885
00:49:46,705 --> 00:49:49,995
Alright, so you're expanding all applicable land use

886
00:49:49,995 --> 00:49:52,235
requirements to, to this list of things that,

887
00:49:52,345 --> 00:49:53,955
that we would require traditionally?

888
00:49:54,215 --> 00:49:58,075
Yes. Okay. And then the second paragraph says,

889
00:50:00,125 --> 00:50:02,875
shall meet all applicable regulations

890
00:50:03,105 --> 00:50:04,955
regarding drinking water supply

891
00:50:05,535 --> 00:50:07,835
and wastewater treatment and disposal.

892
00:50:09,615 --> 00:50:13,635
And that is, we pulled that from,

893
00:50:13,635 --> 00:50:17,675
if you look at line 36 on page two

894
00:50:17,775 --> 00:50:21,915
of HB 6 81 Oh

895
00:50:21,915 --> 00:50:23,595
that's adopting rules regarding that.

896
00:50:23,855 --> 00:50:24,855
So,

897
00:50:26,015 --> 00:50:28,965
So, you know, scanning down one,

898
00:50:29,385 --> 00:50:32,845
the innovative housing structures subject

899
00:50:32,865 --> 00:50:34,245
to the same inspections,

900
00:50:36,155 --> 00:50:38,845
providing the structure shall meet building setbacks

901
00:50:38,845 --> 00:50:41,205
of the zone, adequate provisions

902
00:50:41,305 --> 00:50:42,805
for sewer discharge and disposal.

903
00:50:43,785 --> 00:50:47,285
Yes. One additional off street parking

904
00:50:48,285 --> 00:50:49,805
provided for the innovative housing structure.

905
00:50:49,865 --> 00:50:54,045
Now is that Yes. Is that under the all applicable land use?

906
00:50:55,245 --> 00:50:58,965
I think we took a lot of this from the A DU section.

907
00:51:02,115 --> 00:51:04,605
Okay. They need, you need

908
00:51:04,605 --> 00:51:06,365
to have at least one parking spot.

909
00:51:06,485 --> 00:51:08,405
I mean, we, we don't have public transportation.

910
00:51:08,665 --> 00:51:10,285
The, the general court has said you could

911
00:51:10,285 --> 00:51:11,325
build stuff without parking.

912
00:51:12,385 --> 00:51:13,565
So I wouldn't put it past them.

913
00:51:14,635 --> 00:51:17,165
They haven't, they haven't done it yet though. So Well

914
00:51:19,855 --> 00:51:23,325
Total living space shall not exceed

915
00:51:23,905 --> 00:51:25,605
And that should likely be 600.

916
00:51:25,705 --> 00:51:27,765
That's gonna be 600. 600. Yep. According

917
00:51:27,765 --> 00:51:28,765
To line 19.

918
00:51:28,905 --> 00:51:29,905
Yep.

919
00:51:30,365 --> 00:51:31,445
19 says 600

920
00:51:31,445 --> 00:51:32,685
Square feet on us.

921
00:51:32,685 --> 00:51:37,485
Yep, yep, yep. Shall be composed

922
00:51:37,485 --> 00:51:39,325
of a kitchen, living room, bathroom and bedroom.

923
00:51:40,635 --> 00:51:42,645
That, That was again from the A DU.

924
00:51:43,145 --> 00:51:43,365
Yes.

925
00:51:49,775 --> 00:51:52,945
Room sizes and innovative hunting structure must conform

926
00:51:52,965 --> 00:51:54,825
to the minimum requirements

927
00:51:54,825 --> 00:51:56,985
of the India International Res Residential code.

928
00:51:56,985 --> 00:52:00,785
Well, unless it ex, you know, exceeds 600 square feet.

929
00:52:02,345 --> 00:52:07,225
I think they, This is where I, you know,

930
00:52:07,225 --> 00:52:11,705
that we may be introducing an inherent turf war conflict

931
00:52:11,705 --> 00:52:13,185
between different authorities.

932
00:52:13,205 --> 00:52:15,705
The International Residential Code is not under

933
00:52:15,705 --> 00:52:16,785
the control of the General Court.

934
00:52:17,175 --> 00:52:20,905
General Court has said that these things are 600 and under.

935
00:52:21,405 --> 00:52:24,625
And if International Residential Code requires a total

936
00:52:24,725 --> 00:52:26,385
for all those rooms of more than that,

937
00:52:26,385 --> 00:52:28,305
then we've got a, a court

938
00:52:28,305 --> 00:52:29,745
Case we can take that out.

939
00:52:29,765 --> 00:52:31,865
And then that would be when they apply

940
00:52:31,865 --> 00:52:35,985
for the building permit, it would be under that, the purview

941
00:52:35,985 --> 00:52:39,305
of the building official to ensure that room size is met.

942
00:52:39,575 --> 00:52:40,575
Code

943
00:52:42,985 --> 00:52:45,665
Structure is not a trailer, semi trailer camp trailer

944
00:52:45,685 --> 00:52:46,705
or recreational vehicle.

945
00:52:47,545 --> 00:52:49,985
I think that kind of meets the definition of,

946
00:52:53,785 --> 00:52:58,665
although did we sort out what the difference between a,

947
00:53:01,465 --> 00:53:04,025
a mobile home and a tiny House on Wheels is,

948
00:53:06,685 --> 00:53:08,825
Wasn't that a point of discussion a few weeks

949
00:53:08,845 --> 00:53:09,845
Ago?

950
00:53:09,845 --> 00:53:11,785
It was. And have we resolved it? I don't,

951
00:53:11,865 --> 00:53:12,905
I think we tabled that.

952
00:53:14,165 --> 00:53:16,065
I'm guessing it's just space.

953
00:53:17,125 --> 00:53:21,665
So I I I kind of know that the code enforcement folks want

954
00:53:23,265 --> 00:53:26,685
I item G because that's, that's been a problem.

955
00:53:27,665 --> 00:53:32,245
My only concern is that the new statute, including

956
00:53:32,965 --> 00:53:34,565
a tiny House on Wheels

957
00:53:36,635 --> 00:53:38,965
without much further discussion, it it

958
00:53:38,965 --> 00:53:41,085
Does say built on a trailer chassis in

959
00:53:41,085 --> 00:53:42,125
that definition too.

960
00:53:43,065 --> 00:53:44,605
Yep. Yeah. I'm wondering if,

961
00:53:44,665 --> 00:53:49,365
if G is at least partially obsoleted by this new statute.

962
00:53:49,995 --> 00:53:53,405
Well, it, the statute itself says it,

963
00:53:53,665 --> 00:53:56,005
nor shall it include any recreational vehicle

964
00:53:56,145 --> 00:53:58,565
or park trailer as defined in the

965
00:54:00,885 --> 00:54:03,525
American Standard Institute for Recreational Vehicle

966
00:54:03,945 --> 00:54:07,885
or NC a 19 standard for park trillion

967
00:54:08,005 --> 00:54:09,005
Trailers.

968
00:54:09,005 --> 00:54:12,565
Okay. So that means that a, somebody help me

969
00:54:12,565 --> 00:54:13,605
on, on the lingo here.

970
00:54:13,605 --> 00:54:16,345
There's a, there's a mobile home

971
00:54:16,345 --> 00:54:18,185
and then there's a pre-manufactured home.

972
00:54:18,735 --> 00:54:20,985
There's Yes. So there's yeah.

973
00:54:21,285 --> 00:54:22,585
Mr. Chase, you help. So

974
00:54:22,585 --> 00:54:24,505
The difference, the difference between a modular

975
00:54:25,045 --> 00:54:28,545
and a mobile home is a modular home is constructed

976
00:54:29,085 --> 00:54:32,785
set on a frame towed to the building site,

977
00:54:32,805 --> 00:54:34,905
lifted off the frame and set on a foundation.

978
00:54:35,945 --> 00:54:38,305
A mobile home is constructed on a frame

979
00:54:38,305 --> 00:54:40,065
that is permanent to that structure.

980
00:54:40,085 --> 00:54:41,905
You cannot remove the frame from the structure.

981
00:54:42,125 --> 00:54:43,425
So it's towed to the site.

982
00:54:43,845 --> 00:54:47,625
Either set on a concrete slab on concrete blocks,

983
00:54:47,725 --> 00:54:49,225
or it can be put on a foundation

984
00:54:49,225 --> 00:54:50,945
and the axles and tunnel removes.

985
00:54:51,765 --> 00:54:53,185
So That's the difference between the two.

986
00:54:53,255 --> 00:54:54,865
Then other than that, they're identical. So

987
00:54:55,305 --> 00:54:56,905
A mobile home, according to

988
00:54:56,905 --> 00:54:58,385
that definition, is not a trailer?

989
00:54:59,445 --> 00:55:01,065
No. No. Okay.

990
00:55:01,305 --> 00:55:02,305
I think this is where we just have

991
00:55:02,305 --> 00:55:04,545
to be careful about words about art.

992
00:55:04,705 --> 00:55:05,985
I think we're probably okay then.

993
00:55:06,905 --> 00:55:09,905
'cause I think that tiny home probably means a,

994
00:55:10,145 --> 00:55:12,395
a mobile home among other things.

995
00:55:13,035 --> 00:55:16,475
A mobile home would likely be larger than 600 square feet.

996
00:55:16,665 --> 00:55:19,475
Yeah. I'd also, not to circle back

997
00:55:19,475 --> 00:55:20,835
to the same thing we were talking about earlier,

998
00:55:20,935 --> 00:55:24,875
but it really does seem like the tiny house on Wheels five

999
00:55:25,015 --> 00:55:28,995
and Yurt six are definitionally referential

1000
00:55:29,135 --> 00:55:30,675
to four tiny house.

1001
00:55:31,015 --> 00:55:34,515
So the implication is that the reason why it can't be

1002
00:55:35,595 --> 00:55:36,795
a mobile home or, or,

1003
00:55:36,855 --> 00:55:40,035
or a trailer that can just leave easily is

1004
00:55:40,035 --> 00:55:44,515
because it's within the definition of Tiny House is the,

1005
00:55:44,775 --> 00:55:47,275
the caveat of, of permanent provisions.

1006
00:55:47,585 --> 00:55:49,555
Like, it, it is hooked up in a permanent fashion

1007
00:55:49,695 --> 00:55:50,795
to the spot that it is in.

1008
00:55:51,905 --> 00:55:56,395
Well, so a a a mobile

1009
00:55:56,625 --> 00:55:59,955
home, which is a, a House on Wheels

1010
00:56:00,615 --> 00:56:02,475
is parked typically jacked up

1011
00:56:02,475 --> 00:56:04,115
and they put a, a block wall under it

1012
00:56:04,175 --> 00:56:06,475
and it is hooked up to utilities permanently.

1013
00:56:06,495 --> 00:56:08,675
You can't drive it off without disconnecting them,

1014
00:56:09,335 --> 00:56:11,875
at least not without much damage. So I think

1015
00:56:12,875 --> 00:56:14,195
That would fit in the definition, but something like a

1016
00:56:14,195 --> 00:56:15,475
camper wouldn't because Correct.

1017
00:56:15,615 --> 00:56:17,915
It has a tank and it's not connected into the

1018
00:56:17,915 --> 00:56:18,915
Infrastructure.

1019
00:56:18,915 --> 00:56:20,755
So I, I think based on on that clarification,

1020
00:56:20,755 --> 00:56:22,115
we're probably okay with G.

1021
00:56:22,465 --> 00:56:22,755
Okay.

1022
00:56:27,775 --> 00:56:29,635
Now, innovative housing, does that include,

1023
00:56:29,945 --> 00:56:30,955
that includes yurts?

1024
00:56:30,955 --> 00:56:33,155
So each structure has heating, cooking

1025
00:56:33,215 --> 00:56:34,475
and sanitary facilities.

1026
00:56:35,915 --> 00:56:38,435
I guess I'm gonna leave that up to code to figure out how a

1027
00:56:39,035 --> 00:56:40,435
a yurt contains all of that.

1028
00:56:42,145 --> 00:56:46,275
Okay. I mean, hey, the Native Americans had

1029
00:56:47,985 --> 00:56:51,235
heating, cooking and sanitary facilities in their lodges.

1030
00:56:51,235 --> 00:56:52,595
In their yurts. Yes they did. Yes they did.

1031
00:56:52,595 --> 00:56:55,715
They probably don't necess meet current code though. No.

1032
00:56:56,265 --> 00:56:59,795
Yeah, I don't think they had, they had plumbing.

1033
00:57:00,745 --> 00:57:02,435
They were going outside to do their business.

1034
00:57:03,795 --> 00:57:05,435
Yeah. Mr. Mr. Chase. So

1035
00:57:05,955 --> 00:57:09,915
A a little off subject, but the, it's sooner

1036
00:57:09,915 --> 00:57:10,915
or later it's gonna come.

1037
00:57:11,795 --> 00:57:14,075
Somebody's gonna put in a tiny home on a house lot

1038
00:57:14,615 --> 00:57:18,445
and then wanna put in a second tiny home for an A DU.

1039
00:57:20,255 --> 00:57:21,255
Somebody's gonna come up with that someday.

1040
00:57:21,555 --> 00:57:22,555
So be ready for that.

1041
00:57:27,735 --> 00:57:29,375
A tiny home park. Yep.

1042
00:57:30,725 --> 00:57:33,695
Yeah. Wasn't that one of the proposed developments

1043
00:57:33,695 --> 00:57:34,975
that they were wanting to do was these kind

1044
00:57:34,975 --> 00:57:37,895
of like cottage community type things? That's

1045
00:57:37,975 --> 00:57:38,975
In Chesta.

1046
00:57:38,975 --> 00:57:39,935
Yeah. Cottage. Yeah. Dover

1047
00:57:39,935 --> 00:57:40,935
Has one too.

1048
00:57:40,935 --> 00:57:41,815
Yeah. Cottage court. Yeah.

1049
00:57:41,885 --> 00:57:44,135
Yeah, yeah. I mean Probably an intentional,

1050
00:57:44,395 --> 00:57:46,455
We, we, we could either see it legislated or,

1051
00:57:46,455 --> 00:57:49,895
or somebody request us to have, that's sort of the

1052
00:57:51,115 --> 00:57:52,735
new millennium version of cluster development,

1053
00:57:52,735 --> 00:57:53,815
right? It is.

1054
00:57:54,275 --> 00:57:55,935
Yep. It is. It is.

1055
00:57:56,035 --> 00:58:00,295
And the real side track, the,

1056
00:58:01,435 --> 00:58:02,575
the survey that went out

1057
00:58:02,575 --> 00:58:06,495
for the housing needs needs assessment that we did in Derry,

1058
00:58:06,495 --> 00:58:10,095
the cottage court concept scored very

1059
00:58:10,095 --> 00:58:11,855
high. So

1060
00:58:12,475 --> 00:58:14,255
I'm gonna guess though, if we had a one

1061
00:58:14,255 --> 00:58:18,455
of those high density tiny home parks,

1062
00:58:18,485 --> 00:58:21,135
it's gonna require, you know, pound water and sewer.

1063
00:58:21,485 --> 00:58:22,935
Yeah. We would likely look

1064
00:58:22,935 --> 00:58:23,935
For that.

1065
00:58:23,935 --> 00:58:24,935
Or at least community water and sewer. Yeah.

1066
00:58:26,355 --> 00:58:27,645
Depends on the amount of land.

1067
00:58:28,825 --> 00:58:33,125
If you've got 10 acres of land, you're gonna use two

1068
00:58:33,265 --> 00:58:34,565
for your cottage development.

1069
00:58:35,555 --> 00:58:39,165
That leaves eight acres for your wastewater disposal. Yeah.

1070
00:58:39,655 --> 00:58:44,325
Which in look at the size of the units

1071
00:58:44,345 --> 00:58:45,285
as some of our neighboring

1072
00:58:45,285 --> 00:58:46,605
communities have put in without, well

1073
00:58:46,605 --> 00:58:48,645
There was a bill, I, I think it did not pass.

1074
00:58:48,845 --> 00:58:52,045
I actually went to the hearing on it that said

1075
00:58:52,905 --> 00:58:55,525
municipalities are prohibited from creating any

1076
00:58:56,035 --> 00:58:59,485
dimensional requirements for residential

1077
00:59:00,805 --> 00:59:04,405
construction beyond that, that the DES would require

1078
00:59:04,585 --> 00:59:06,405
for approved septic designs.

1079
00:59:06,465 --> 00:59:08,005
Yep. Yeah. So yeah.

1080
00:59:08,315 --> 00:59:12,605
Yeah, that'll probably come back.

1081
00:59:17,495 --> 00:59:22,045
Okay. So I I, I'm okay with leaving that in there.

1082
00:59:22,205 --> 00:59:26,565
I think some of this stuff, based on what HB

1083
00:59:27,435 --> 00:59:29,005
1681 actually says

1084
00:59:29,825 --> 00:59:33,085
is probably gonna be sorted out in the courts, sadly,

1085
00:59:33,515 --> 00:59:35,885
because it's just not all that specific

1086
00:59:36,585 --> 00:59:38,685
and each town's gonna do something a little different.

1087
00:59:39,175 --> 00:59:42,485
Right. Is there specific recommendations in

1088
00:59:42,505 --> 00:59:44,285
the NHMA?

1089
00:59:47,915 --> 00:59:51,875
I didn't see one about tiny homes.

1090
00:59:52,815 --> 00:59:54,075
See one about ADUs.

1091
00:59:57,815 --> 01:00:01,315
Oh, the innovative housing structures are in the,

1092
01:00:03,545 --> 01:00:05,315
they're in the, the guidance

1093
01:00:05,425 --> 01:00:09,115
that talks about HB 2 44 16 81

1094
01:00:09,255 --> 01:00:10,595
in SB 94.

1095
01:00:11,495 --> 01:00:12,495
And

1096
01:00:16,935 --> 01:00:18,355
Is that not one of the ones I printed?

1097
01:00:18,355 --> 01:00:20,755
They're, they're, they're treated innovative housing

1098
01:00:21,115 --> 01:00:23,755
structures shall be treated as single family dwellings

1099
01:00:24,175 --> 01:00:27,315
or accessory dwelling units for zoning purposes, which is

1100
01:00:27,315 --> 01:00:30,235
where we pulled that information from subject

1101
01:00:30,235 --> 01:00:32,675
to all applicable land use requirements and state laws

1102
01:00:32,695 --> 01:00:35,115
and regulations regarding drinking water supply

1103
01:00:35,215 --> 01:00:37,115
and wastewater treatment and disposal.

1104
01:00:38,915 --> 01:00:43,155
RSA 1 55 A 3D provides a pathway for construction

1105
01:00:43,155 --> 01:00:44,715
and inspections to ensure

1106
01:00:44,715 --> 01:00:46,515
that they meet building code requirements.

1107
01:00:47,095 --> 01:00:49,115
It includes offsite construction elements

1108
01:00:49,115 --> 01:00:50,235
that must undergo review

1109
01:00:50,295 --> 01:00:52,435
and inspection either by local building officials

1110
01:00:52,495 --> 01:00:55,115
or the state fire marshal to ensure compliance

1111
01:00:55,115 --> 01:00:56,395
with the state building code.

1112
01:00:58,975 --> 01:01:01,835
So I, I think the A DU law as it stands,

1113
01:01:02,565 --> 01:01:04,675
makes an A DU either detached or,

1114
01:01:04,815 --> 01:01:06,795
or detached a use of Right.

1115
01:01:06,795 --> 01:01:08,395
But I don't think it grants you two or three.

1116
01:01:09,655 --> 01:01:11,595
No, Today,

1117
01:01:12,005 --> 01:01:13,035
Today it does not.

1118
01:01:13,655 --> 01:01:15,075
No. You can have you

1119
01:01:15,615 --> 01:01:18,555
and you can have your structure, your single family home,

1120
01:01:19,215 --> 01:01:21,035
you can turn your garage into an A DU

1121
01:01:21,035 --> 01:01:22,275
or you can build an A DU.

1122
01:01:22,855 --> 01:01:26,835
We have had a couple of applications to the zoning board

1123
01:01:26,835 --> 01:01:28,675
to permit to ADUs on a lot.

1124
01:01:29,995 --> 01:01:32,195
Hmm. Well just

1125
01:01:32,195 --> 01:01:34,035
because it's not in the zoning doesn't mean you can't

1126
01:01:34,035 --> 01:01:35,075
get a variance to do it.

1127
01:01:35,185 --> 01:01:38,275
That is correct. Yeah.

1128
01:01:42,295 --> 01:01:47,155
So hope hopefully our, our regs do talk about proper

1129
01:01:48,065 --> 01:01:50,875
utilities for however many they're granted by a variance.

1130
01:01:54,775 --> 01:01:56,515
One of the things that we might do is

1131
01:01:59,775 --> 01:02:02,635
put something in the land development control regulations

1132
01:02:02,705 --> 01:02:07,475
regarding septic and,

1133
01:02:07,475 --> 01:02:12,315
and water and other utilities for, or ADUs

1134
01:02:12,315 --> 01:02:15,355
or innovative housing structures

1135
01:02:17,015 --> 01:02:18,035
as a defensive move.

1136
01:02:18,195 --> 01:02:21,885
'cause the DBA cannot grant a variance to the LDCs.

1137
01:02:25,315 --> 01:02:28,405
Okay. Yeah, I know that for the ADUs currently,

1138
01:02:28,435 --> 01:02:31,565
they've been asking them to, if water's available,

1139
01:02:31,565 --> 01:02:32,925
they've been asking them to connect

1140
01:02:32,925 --> 01:02:34,045
to the public water supply.

1141
01:02:34,785 --> 01:02:39,765
And I know that the, if it's septic, it's same rule

1142
01:02:39,765 --> 01:02:41,405
that it's always been, you know, you need

1143
01:02:41,405 --> 01:02:43,805
to have a replacement septic plan approved

1144
01:02:43,825 --> 01:02:47,245
by the state on file in case you know if and when the

1145
01:02:47,845 --> 01:02:48,845
Existing money does.

1146
01:02:48,845 --> 01:02:49,725
Right. So where, where is that written?

1147
01:02:53,395 --> 01:02:54,685
It's not in our LDCR.

1148
01:02:59,745 --> 01:03:01,285
Is that not part of our A DU

1149
01:03:02,385 --> 01:03:04,205
or is that, that might be building code.

1150
01:03:05,145 --> 01:03:08,525
My suggestion is that we put it in the,

1151
01:03:08,595 --> 01:03:11,565
into the LDCR maybe even if it's duplicative.

1152
01:03:11,915 --> 01:03:15,605
Okay. Because then when summon comes to the ZZBA says,

1153
01:03:15,645 --> 01:03:16,725
I want five ADUs,

1154
01:03:17,225 --> 01:03:21,525
and we say, fine, we'll get, we'll grant you approval

1155
01:03:21,585 --> 01:03:24,365
as long as they all have proper septic hookup

1156
01:03:24,745 --> 01:03:28,125
and the ZBA can't just waive or,

1157
01:03:28,345 --> 01:03:30,965
or give a variance to that septic requirement.

1158
01:03:31,315 --> 01:03:36,045
Does anyone else think I'm being too Machia Valley in there?

1159
01:03:38,905 --> 01:03:41,405
Are we No, I think that, I think that makes sense.

1160
01:03:42,705 --> 01:03:45,325
Are we okay under state law to do, to do that?

1161
01:03:46,455 --> 01:03:48,585
Well, my understanding is that the state law for

1162
01:03:49,285 --> 01:03:53,825
idiots does require that they have approved septic.

1163
01:03:53,975 --> 01:03:57,145
Okay. And I don't think such a thing as approved

1164
01:03:57,905 --> 01:04:00,465
drinking water, but certainly the approved septic.

1165
01:04:00,685 --> 01:04:03,025
Now it could be that you built a, an oversized

1166
01:04:04,265 --> 01:04:05,585
septic system on your lot and,

1167
01:04:05,645 --> 01:04:09,705
and the existing design could support the primary dwelling

1168
01:04:09,705 --> 01:04:11,905
and an IDU, in which case you just need

1169
01:04:13,225 --> 01:04:14,625
a subject designer to sign off on it.

1170
01:04:16,415 --> 01:04:20,355
Okay. I just don't think we ought allow that to be

1171
01:04:22,625 --> 01:04:23,875
subject to a variance.

1172
01:04:25,905 --> 01:04:28,035
Okay. I will, I'll come up with wording

1173
01:04:28,035 --> 01:04:30,555
and I'll work with the building inspector on that.

1174
01:04:34,385 --> 01:04:36,645
Now if it's, if it's in the building code, then who, who,

1175
01:04:36,705 --> 01:04:37,765
who gets to control that

1176
01:04:40,025 --> 01:04:42,655
Would fall under the, the building official

1177
01:04:43,915 --> 01:04:45,455
to make the final determinations.

1178
01:04:46,995 --> 01:04:49,905
How we've been handling it is when we get applications like

1179
01:04:49,905 --> 01:04:53,505
that and the building permit comes through Fire

1180
01:04:54,405 --> 01:04:57,105
and public works sign off on the, the building permits.

1181
01:04:57,105 --> 01:05:01,865
So that's how we check those boxes for code compliance.

1182
01:05:03,685 --> 01:05:07,705
And technically the planning board doesn't review

1183
01:05:09,365 --> 01:05:11,545
two one and two families.

1184
01:05:11,565 --> 01:05:13,465
So if it's, if it's, we don't a primary

1185
01:05:13,565 --> 01:05:16,225
and an A DU, it doesn't fall under our jurisdiction.

1186
01:05:16,405 --> 01:05:19,645
It doesn't. Okay. I guess that's the best we can do then.

1187
01:05:20,275 --> 01:05:23,165
Okay. Alright. Okay.

1188
01:05:31,775 --> 01:05:34,555
So there's a list of zones in which they are permitted.

1189
01:05:34,555 --> 01:05:36,635
What does the state statute say about

1190
01:05:37,045 --> 01:05:38,115
where they're permitted?

1191
01:05:40,525 --> 01:05:41,075
Let's see,

1192
01:05:45,945 --> 01:05:47,745
I guess what it says is it may be

1193
01:05:50,525 --> 01:05:52,065
on an individual house lot

1194
01:05:52,065 --> 01:05:54,505
where single family dwellings are allowed.

1195
01:05:55,725 --> 01:05:57,665
So is this the listing of all Yes.

1196
01:05:58,265 --> 01:06:00,505
Districts that allow, okay. Yep.

1197
01:06:08,775 --> 01:06:10,225
Alright. Anything else on

1198
01:06:11,245 --> 01:06:12,245
Native Housing?

1199
01:06:12,335 --> 01:06:14,705
Yeah, I just want to bring up one thing.

1200
01:06:14,995 --> 01:06:16,865
We're saying the housing structure is composed

1201
01:06:16,865 --> 01:06:19,025
of a kitchen living room, a bathroom and a bedroom.

1202
01:06:19,765 --> 01:06:21,945
If we're limiting it to 600 square

1203
01:06:22,045 --> 01:06:25,785
or if it's limited to 600 square feet, do we really want

1204
01:06:25,785 --> 01:06:28,465
to tell people they can't have a studio layout?

1205
01:06:29,855 --> 01:06:33,345
Well, I guess the question is, is that a,

1206
01:06:33,705 --> 01:06:34,905
a functional requirement

1207
01:06:34,925 --> 01:06:39,465
or a, a structural requirement if you have a, a kitchen area

1208
01:06:40,605 --> 01:06:41,825
and a sleeping area

1209
01:06:43,245 --> 01:06:44,505
and then you probably want walls

1210
01:06:44,505 --> 01:06:45,985
around your bathroom. I'm thinking, but

1211
01:06:46,425 --> 01:06:51,305
Probably, yeah, But I, I I, I would not presume it

1212
01:06:51,325 --> 01:06:53,625
to preclude studios.

1213
01:06:55,215 --> 01:06:59,385
Okay. Yeah, I think it is interesting to note that in,

1214
01:07:00,455 --> 01:07:01,065
what is this

1215
01:07:05,635 --> 01:07:07,695
in E one six?

1216
01:07:07,695 --> 01:07:12,135
5 2 5 1 E It, like you said, it mentions

1217
01:07:12,725 --> 01:07:15,775
kitchen, living room, bathroom, bedroom as if those are

1218
01:07:16,765 --> 01:07:18,215
necessity separate rooms

1219
01:07:18,215 --> 01:07:22,455
because in, in, in h it mentions the requirement

1220
01:07:22,455 --> 01:07:24,775
for the actual functional things like the fact

1221
01:07:24,775 --> 01:07:27,055
that there's cooking facilities, sanitary facilities.

1222
01:07:27,435 --> 01:07:28,735
If those are both there,

1223
01:07:28,795 --> 01:07:30,575
it does make it seem like e

1224
01:07:30,575 --> 01:07:31,735
is implying that you need support.

1225
01:07:31,735 --> 01:07:33,935
Right. That's, that's how I read it at first.

1226
01:07:34,165 --> 01:07:36,255
Well maybe we could go back to those more generic terms

1227
01:07:36,345 --> 01:07:40,335
about areas dedicated to cooking, you know,

1228
01:07:40,535 --> 01:07:41,575
sleeping and,

1229
01:07:42,645 --> 01:07:43,645
Yeah.

1230
01:07:43,645 --> 01:07:45,055
'cause 'cause h if that's san,

1231
01:07:45,795 --> 01:07:48,495
How do you, how you describe your bathroom things

1232
01:07:48,655 --> 01:07:50,135
politely in the zoning ordinance?

1233
01:07:50,325 --> 01:07:51,735
Because if that's the only thing

1234
01:07:51,735 --> 01:07:53,415
that we're requiring is this, the fact

1235
01:07:53,415 --> 01:07:55,375
that those facilities are present in the building

1236
01:07:55,925 --> 01:07:59,815
then h covers that, that has heating, cooking, sanitary,

1237
01:08:00,135 --> 01:08:02,815
I guess we could add sleeping and whatever. Yeah,

1238
01:08:03,055 --> 01:08:04,055
Probably add sleeping.

1239
01:08:04,055 --> 01:08:04,535
Good

1240
01:08:05,735 --> 01:08:07,255
Think that's how, how it says it in here.

1241
01:08:07,285 --> 01:08:10,165
Okay. Yeah, because here it says provisions for living,

1242
01:08:10,405 --> 01:08:12,165
sleeping, cooking, and sanitation. That's

1243
01:08:12,165 --> 01:08:15,605
A very good catch because I think the thing we wanna avoid

1244
01:08:15,705 --> 01:08:18,805
is words that when we're thinking about it,

1245
01:08:19,065 --> 01:08:20,125
oh yeah, that makes sense.

1246
01:08:20,505 --> 01:08:22,485
But someone else trying to apply it, oh no,

1247
01:08:22,665 --> 01:08:25,085
it means our room, you gotta have walls.

1248
01:08:25,945 --> 01:08:29,625
And I don't know that that's justified

1249
01:08:30,125 --> 01:08:32,145
in the state statute itself. Yep.

1250
01:08:32,295 --> 01:08:34,545
Okay. So we, we can, I think that's the intent.

1251
01:08:34,845 --> 01:08:37,665
Delete e and then on and we will renumber these

1252
01:08:37,725 --> 01:08:42,265
and then h would structure contains heating, cooking,

1253
01:08:42,585 --> 01:08:44,945
sanitary facilities in a sleeping area.

1254
01:08:45,335 --> 01:08:47,345
Yeah. Yeah. I think taking the wording,

1255
01:08:47,395 --> 01:08:50,065
maybe not the wording but the, the contents of

1256
01:08:51,325 --> 01:08:52,785
the description of Tiny House

1257
01:08:52,785 --> 01:08:55,625
where it says providing permanent provisions for living,

1258
01:08:56,145 --> 01:08:57,905
sleeping, eating, cooking, and sanitation.

1259
01:08:58,085 --> 01:09:00,545
So just something that encompasses each of those things.

1260
01:09:02,295 --> 01:09:04,145
Okay. Okay. Alright. Yeah, good catch.

1261
01:09:06,305 --> 01:09:10,665
Anything else on innovative housing?

1262
01:09:12,525 --> 01:09:13,945
Do we wanna list the zones

1263
01:09:13,945 --> 01:09:16,945
that it is allowed in in case there's nonconform?

1264
01:09:16,945 --> 01:09:19,905
Well, I mean there, I'm assuming there are single family

1265
01:09:19,905 --> 01:09:23,585
houses in other zones that are preexisting.

1266
01:09:24,825 --> 01:09:25,505
I don't know if we wanna,

1267
01:09:29,955 --> 01:09:32,435
I don't know if it makes sense to list the zones innovative

1268
01:09:32,435 --> 01:09:33,435
Housing.

1269
01:09:33,435 --> 01:09:35,515
This is not the same

1270
01:09:35,515 --> 01:09:38,155
as an accessory dwelling unit. Right,

1271
01:09:38,405 --> 01:09:39,405
Right, right.

1272
01:09:39,405 --> 01:09:41,195
Alright. Yeah, I I take that back.

1273
01:09:41,255 --> 01:09:45,315
So you you you're putting it on a, some sort of lot

1274
01:09:45,315 --> 01:09:46,595
of record where it can fit,

1275
01:09:46,595 --> 01:09:49,395
whereas ADUs can pretty much go anywhere

1276
01:09:52,915 --> 01:09:56,495
and the town has less control over compliance.

1277
01:09:57,645 --> 01:09:59,215
Yeah. Oh okay. I take that back.

1278
01:09:59,215 --> 01:10:02,335
Especially for conversions. Right? Yep. Alright.

1279
01:10:02,335 --> 01:10:03,935
Yeah, I agree. It makes sense to list them.

1280
01:10:05,235 --> 01:10:08,255
My, my only thing is when we list them, if,

1281
01:10:08,275 --> 01:10:12,855
if we then change the zoning so that some other residential

1282
01:10:14,995 --> 01:10:16,135
is created, we have to come back here

1283
01:10:16,155 --> 01:10:17,175
and then add it to the list.

1284
01:10:17,235 --> 01:10:21,535
So you might say all districts, which allow

1285
01:10:22,175 --> 01:10:25,265
single family residential uses that way you don't have

1286
01:10:25,265 --> 01:10:26,385
to come back and revisit it.

1287
01:10:26,385 --> 01:10:28,305
But that's just, I don't feel strongly about that.

1288
01:10:28,415 --> 01:10:29,745
It's just, just a suggestion.

1289
01:10:34,585 --> 01:10:37,905
I mean, as, as long as you guys, you know, when

1290
01:10:38,185 --> 01:10:40,825
whenever we revise something, you find all the things

1291
01:10:40,825 --> 01:10:41,785
that are dependencies,

1292
01:10:45,455 --> 01:10:46,305
that would be fine.

1293
01:10:47,645 --> 01:10:50,825
So make that change. So all districts which permits single

1294
01:10:50,825 --> 01:10:52,785
family dwelling units.

1295
01:10:53,975 --> 01:10:58,835
Yeah, I mean, back to, again, it just means

1296
01:10:58,835 --> 01:11:01,515
that it's lower maintenance for future revisions,

1297
01:11:01,515 --> 01:11:03,075
but Okay. Not a big deal.

1298
01:11:03,585 --> 01:11:05,665
Okay. Anything else?

1299
01:11:09,845 --> 01:11:13,565
All right, let's move on to general commercial. Oh

1300
01:11:13,805 --> 01:11:14,805
Actually hold on.

1301
01:11:14,805 --> 01:11:15,725
I do have one thing. Oh no.

1302
01:11:15,785 --> 01:11:18,365
If we do end up adding, if we do end up adding the,

1303
01:11:18,785 --> 01:11:21,245
the separate definition for adult care center.

1304
01:11:21,395 --> 01:11:26,125
Yeah, that'll, we'll have to modify the types of uses

1305
01:11:26,755 --> 01:11:28,845
page 'cause it has childcare center

1306
01:11:28,865 --> 01:11:31,565
and group day care in that list. Oh,

1307
01:11:31,685 --> 01:11:33,085
You're, you're already onto the next page.

1308
01:11:33,505 --> 01:11:35,005
Oh, that's okay. I thought this was part

1309
01:11:35,005 --> 01:11:36,005
of the section we were about to leave

1310
01:11:36,075 --> 01:11:38,525
When you said Oh, before I I thought you were

1311
01:11:38,705 --> 01:11:39,705
Yes.

1312
01:11:39,705 --> 01:11:40,605
I I thought that, I thought we were moving

1313
01:11:40,635 --> 01:11:42,285
past this to something else. No, no.

1314
01:11:42,285 --> 01:11:45,325
So I wanna make sure we No, no, you're looking at changes

1315
01:11:45,345 --> 01:11:48,005
to general commercial, which adds

1316
01:11:49,155 --> 01:11:50,565
childcare removes daycare,

1317
01:11:55,705 --> 01:11:58,725
so we should probably add adult care.

1318
01:11:58,865 --> 01:12:02,725
And then family care. Is family care allowed?

1319
01:12:02,905 --> 01:12:04,405
No, No,

1320
01:12:04,545 --> 01:12:05,545
No.

1321
01:12:05,545 --> 01:12:08,725
Family Family care is not permitted in commercial districts.

1322
01:12:09,545 --> 01:12:12,005
That's, That's, they wanted to separate those out.

1323
01:12:13,545 --> 01:12:17,655
So suppose I, I live in a townhouse,

1324
01:12:18,835 --> 01:12:22,335
in a multiunit residential structure

1325
01:12:22,915 --> 01:12:24,935
and I want to have a family daycare.

1326
01:12:27,385 --> 01:12:31,895
Multi-unit residential is allowed in any business district.

1327
01:12:33,665 --> 01:12:36,085
That's, that's all a change we haven't gotten to yet. But

1328
01:12:37,385 --> 01:12:42,005
If, if the townhouse was located in the general,

1329
01:12:42,545 --> 01:12:45,005
in the general commercial, industrial

1330
01:12:45,225 --> 01:12:49,845
or manufacturing district by state law, family

1331
01:12:51,115 --> 01:12:52,765
daycare is not permitted.

1332
01:12:54,185 --> 01:12:56,365
Oh. So they, they they carve that out in the statute.

1333
01:12:56,465 --> 01:12:57,445
That's, that's why they

1334
01:12:57,445 --> 01:12:58,805
separated those two out. Okay, great.

1335
01:12:59,125 --> 01:13:03,715
Alright, we're good. Yep. So we're adding

1336
01:13:03,805 --> 01:13:05,155
adult daycare here.

1337
01:13:05,405 --> 01:13:08,195
Child day child care center stays

1338
01:13:08,255 --> 01:13:10,275
and then, I'm sorry, remind me what we're doing

1339
01:13:10,275 --> 01:13:12,515
with group daycare that goes well I

1340
01:13:12,515 --> 01:13:15,835
Thought we, you know, either had child adult care

1341
01:13:16,015 --> 01:13:17,155
or family care.

1342
01:13:17,375 --> 01:13:18,795
We had three flavors. Okay.

1343
01:13:19,615 --> 01:13:22,075
So group daycare probably becomes

1344
01:13:23,085 --> 01:13:24,675
adult care center. Okay.

1345
01:13:24,825 --> 01:13:25,995
Alright. I'm thinking.

1346
01:13:26,385 --> 01:13:31,355
Okay. And then

1347
01:13:31,695 --> 01:13:36,155
the next biggest change is f all

1348
01:13:36,155 --> 01:13:37,315
of the other sections

1349
01:13:37,375 --> 01:13:40,795
for multifamily will re refer back to this section.

1350
01:13:41,095 --> 01:13:42,435
So this is where we'll want

1351
01:13:42,435 --> 01:13:43,955
to make sure we capture everything.

1352
01:13:44,905 --> 01:13:46,435
This will need to be amended

1353
01:13:46,465 --> 01:13:50,795
because the state guidance says we cannot

1354
01:13:51,575 --> 01:13:53,715
permit these through a conditional use permit.

1355
01:13:53,825 --> 01:13:57,395
They're permitted as a matter of, right. So my state, so do

1356
01:13:57,395 --> 01:13:59,355
I have one without sufficient read on it?

1357
01:14:03,495 --> 01:14:06,475
You should, because this one includes Shelby approved

1358
01:14:06,535 --> 01:14:08,235
for a conditional use permit. Right.

1359
01:14:08,235 --> 01:14:11,605
This, so when I drafted the proposed changes,

1360
01:14:12,045 --> 01:14:15,685
I did not have the state guidance that reiterated

1361
01:14:15,755 --> 01:14:17,965
that we can't do conditional use permit.

1362
01:14:17,965 --> 01:14:20,525
Yeah. So that's, so I'm suggesting changes

1363
01:14:20,525 --> 01:14:22,085
Wells also because my understanding is

1364
01:14:22,185 --> 01:14:23,365
it is a use of, right.

1365
01:14:23,625 --> 01:14:24,625
Yes.

1366
01:14:28,765 --> 01:14:33,245
I would suggest that f be amended to say,

1367
01:14:33,425 --> 01:14:37,125
so f would just say multi-family residential uses

1368
01:14:37,305 --> 01:14:41,725
and then get rid of the rest of the language in

1369
01:14:41,725 --> 01:14:43,005
that paragraph.

1370
01:14:43,945 --> 01:14:44,945
And then

1371
01:14:46,545 --> 01:14:48,365
You've gotta get rid of the whole number.

1372
01:14:49,525 --> 01:14:52,165
'cause those are the, the, the findings of fact in order

1373
01:14:52,165 --> 01:14:53,805
to issue a conditional use permit.

1374
01:14:54,175 --> 01:14:58,325
Right. So I would suggest deleting.

1375
01:14:59,105 --> 01:15:02,805
So just have it say multi-family residential uses

1376
01:15:03,305 --> 01:15:07,845
or multi-family residential period in period, get rid

1377
01:15:07,845 --> 01:15:10,125
of our, our permitted as a blah blah,

1378
01:15:10,425 --> 01:15:13,205
and then get rid of the rest of that paragraph.

1379
01:15:13,205 --> 01:15:15,845
And then just start with one, when you're converting it,

1380
01:15:16,345 --> 01:15:18,405
you get an exemption for your setbacks.

1381
01:15:19,105 --> 01:15:20,165
We cover our density.

1382
01:15:22,105 --> 01:15:26,925
We talk about the, we talk about the non-residential

1383
01:15:27,025 --> 01:15:30,245
use portion and then delete what is currently four

1384
01:15:30,345 --> 01:15:33,125
and five, talking about applications and appeals.

1385
01:15:34,145 --> 01:15:37,405
And then so Then adding site, suitability

1386
01:15:37,545 --> 01:15:38,925
and availability of services.

1387
01:15:39,105 --> 01:15:40,605
So density, where's is that?

1388
01:15:42,425 --> 01:15:44,925
We pulled that, that was ex, that was,

1389
01:15:46,035 --> 01:15:48,965
that was the density we had determined when we put it into

1390
01:15:48,965 --> 01:15:52,725
industrial two, you can

1391
01:15:52,725 --> 01:15:54,005
do whatever density you want.

1392
01:15:57,955 --> 01:15:58,245
Okay.

1393
01:16:03,085 --> 01:16:04,045
But we're getting rid of

1394
01:16:05,055 --> 01:16:08,245
three, right?

1395
01:16:08,445 --> 01:16:09,685
'cause we can't specify that.

1396
01:16:11,825 --> 01:16:14,045
So, Or we or do you think we can

1397
01:16:14,305 --> 01:16:16,485
We, in certain districts, you,

1398
01:16:16,665 --> 01:16:18,565
you can let me find that guidance.

1399
01:16:19,285 --> 01:16:20,685
I, I'm, I'm having a hard time.

1400
01:16:21,305 --> 01:16:23,965
If the state says a multifamily

1401
01:16:24,515 --> 01:16:26,165
residential is a use of, right.

1402
01:16:26,235 --> 01:16:28,245
That we can say, wow, it's a use of, right.

1403
01:16:28,345 --> 01:16:30,165
If you have some non-residential in it.

1404
01:16:30,185 --> 01:16:32,045
I'm, I'm not thinking that works. No, there's,

1405
01:16:32,285 --> 01:16:34,205
I, I apologize if I'm not understanding here,

1406
01:16:34,205 --> 01:16:35,445
but it's in 10 79.

1407
01:16:39,265 --> 01:16:43,565
It not, I'm sorry, not 10 79. 10 10.

1408
01:16:47,555 --> 01:16:51,405
What does it say, Randy? It says in four,

1409
01:16:52,085 --> 01:16:54,525
a municipality may require all available ground

1410
01:16:54,705 --> 01:16:56,045
for floor space

1411
01:16:56,225 --> 01:16:58,685
or a percentage thereof to be dedicated

1412
01:16:58,685 --> 01:17:00,205
to retail or similar uses.

1413
01:17:00,505 --> 01:17:03,645
And that's under the, That's under the state law.

1414
01:17:03,645 --> 01:17:04,725
That's under the state law.

1415
01:17:05,635 --> 01:17:07,245
Okay. 10 10. This is, yep.

1416
01:17:09,325 --> 01:17:11,845
Chapter 3, 1 9, house bill 10 10.

1417
01:17:11,985 --> 01:17:14,165
And it's on the second page on the top. Yep.

1418
01:17:15,825 --> 01:17:20,725
So we can Yeah.

1419
01:17:20,745 --> 01:17:22,405
So we, we can, yeah, we can,

1420
01:17:22,905 --> 01:17:25,085
we can require the mixed use piece of it.

1421
01:17:25,275 --> 01:17:26,275
Okay.

1422
01:17:28,765 --> 01:17:32,285
Interesting. So, so that's a, a use of quasi. Right. Got

1423
01:17:32,285 --> 01:17:33,285
It.

1424
01:17:33,285 --> 01:17:35,485
In 10 10, it does specify the ground floor

1425
01:17:35,975 --> 01:17:38,325
where ours doesn't our

1426
01:17:38,515 --> 01:17:40,805
Does it say shall, May.

1427
01:17:41,265 --> 01:17:44,045
May, yeah. And we were, we were trying

1428
01:17:44,045 --> 01:17:45,365
to be a little bit more flexible,

1429
01:17:45,365 --> 01:17:47,125
especially when we're converting structures.

1430
01:17:47,385 --> 01:17:49,485
So, and, and if you look at the next paragraph down,

1431
01:17:49,485 --> 01:17:51,725
it says the municipality may provide an exemption

1432
01:17:51,725 --> 01:17:54,005
to any requirements regarding setback, height, blah, blah,

1433
01:17:54,005 --> 01:17:56,925
blah, of a building being converted to multifamily

1434
01:17:56,945 --> 01:17:58,645
or mixed use through adaptive reuse.

1435
01:17:58,905 --> 01:18:01,965
But, but I, I I, I would kind of backtrack on our, oh,

1436
01:18:02,025 --> 01:18:04,485
the, the 25% can be anywhere in the building

1437
01:18:04,635 --> 01:18:06,125
that we did previously.

1438
01:18:06,405 --> 01:18:09,165
'cause it, this is a municipality may require

1439
01:18:09,905 --> 01:18:14,245
all available ground floor space or a percentage thereof.

1440
01:18:14,345 --> 01:18:17,285
It doesn't say percentage of the building space. Okay.

1441
01:18:17,705 --> 01:18:18,725
So I think, I think they've kind

1442
01:18:18,725 --> 01:18:20,325
of pushed our hand in that regard.

1443
01:18:31,345 --> 01:18:31,565
So,

1444
01:18:32,355 --> 01:18:36,845
Well, I think to play devil's advocate, I think on

1445
01:18:36,845 --> 01:18:40,565
that is yes, we can do that and put it in.

1446
01:18:41,865 --> 01:18:46,725
But as an adaptive use, it doesn't prohibit us from saying,

1447
01:18:47,505 --> 01:18:49,565
if an applicant comes to us

1448
01:18:49,565 --> 01:18:53,125
and says, yes, we understand we have to have, you require us

1449
01:18:53,125 --> 01:18:54,365
to have a certain percentage.

1450
01:18:55,465 --> 01:18:57,605
And the state law says ground floor space.

1451
01:18:57,745 --> 01:18:58,955
But what is

1452
01:18:58,955 --> 01:19:02,395
to prevent you from letting us do this on the second floor

1453
01:19:02,695 --> 01:19:04,195
or the third floor there, there's nothing here

1454
01:19:04,195 --> 01:19:05,435
that says we can't change it.

1455
01:19:05,455 --> 01:19:06,455
It says,

1456
01:19:07,105 --> 01:19:08,355
Yeah, If somebody comes in

1457
01:19:08,355 --> 01:19:10,635
and fights us, we have this to fall back on

1458
01:19:10,635 --> 01:19:13,195
and say, yes, you have to have a percentage

1459
01:19:13,195 --> 01:19:14,315
or the whole ground floor.

1460
01:19:15,135 --> 01:19:17,075
But if you would like to, we will allow you

1461
01:19:17,415 --> 01:19:21,335
by conditional use whatever to use the second floor or the

1462
01:19:21,335 --> 01:19:22,335
Third floor.

1463
01:19:22,335 --> 01:19:24,775
So I, I'm gonna go back to New Hampshire is a di state.

1464
01:19:25,555 --> 01:19:29,655
The fact that the state statute doesn't say you can't do

1465
01:19:29,655 --> 01:19:32,095
something doesn't mean you can, you can only do things

1466
01:19:32,095 --> 01:19:34,135
that they explicitly say you can.

1467
01:19:42,155 --> 01:19:43,835
I mean, I don't, it, it doesn't matter to me.

1468
01:19:44,075 --> 01:19:47,235
I was just thinking of, you know, being innovative

1469
01:19:47,415 --> 01:19:50,975
and like we had talked about when we did

1470
01:19:50,975 --> 01:19:52,015
our sidewalks downtown.

1471
01:19:52,885 --> 01:19:54,135
Yeah, I know. And, and I think trying

1472
01:19:54,135 --> 01:19:55,895
To be more innovative and, and adapted

1473
01:19:55,895 --> 01:19:56,895
It made sense.

1474
01:19:56,895 --> 01:19:58,175
But I'm just reading what the Yeah.

1475
01:19:58,475 --> 01:19:59,655
The statute says and yeah,

1476
01:19:59,715 --> 01:20:01,335
I'm not arguing with what you say either.

1477
01:20:01,435 --> 01:20:03,415
And I'm, I don't feel strongly as long

1478
01:20:03,415 --> 01:20:06,215
as the retail component, retail

1479
01:20:06,475 --> 01:20:08,685
or commercial component is somewhere in the

1480
01:20:08,765 --> 01:20:09,765
Building.

1481
01:20:09,765 --> 01:20:09,925
Well, it's in the zoning ordinance.

1482
01:20:09,925 --> 01:20:11,525
So if they want to put it somewhere else,

1483
01:20:11,525 --> 01:20:12,565
they can get a variance.

1484
01:20:14,825 --> 01:20:17,525
I'm all for trying to clone the state law to minimize our,

1485
01:20:17,585 --> 01:20:18,605
our, our legal bills.

1486
01:20:18,915 --> 01:20:21,125
Yeah. I think Mr. Fowler would appreciate that.

1487
01:20:26,515 --> 01:20:29,245
Okay, so we're gonna change that to mimic

1488
01:20:29,465 --> 01:20:31,285
and say ground floor, is that?

1489
01:20:31,595 --> 01:20:34,485
Yeah. Yeah. I I would say 25% of the ground floor, if

1490
01:20:34,485 --> 01:20:36,245
that's the, the number we want.

1491
01:20:36,475 --> 01:20:37,885
Okay. I would just limit it to the ground floor.

1492
01:20:37,885 --> 01:20:39,165
So it kind of matches the state statute.

1493
01:20:39,475 --> 01:20:44,405
Okay. We,

1494
01:20:45,085 --> 01:20:47,405
I would suggest that we not change

1495
01:20:47,715 --> 01:20:52,045
that in the industrial two district, the language there,

1496
01:20:52,045 --> 01:20:54,925
because we're not required to allow,

1497
01:20:57,255 --> 01:21:01,405
we're not required to permit multifamily in an industrial

1498
01:21:01,505 --> 01:21:03,125
or manufacturing district.

1499
01:21:03,275 --> 01:21:05,005
Well, but industrial two is not really

1500
01:21:05,005 --> 01:21:06,085
an industrial district.

1501
01:21:06,605 --> 01:21:10,005
I think the law says you have to allow them in any district

1502
01:21:10,005 --> 01:21:12,085
that allows commercial or business uses

1503
01:21:12,805 --> 01:21:13,805
Retailer office.

1504
01:21:14,875 --> 01:21:15,805
Does it say retailer

1505
01:21:15,805 --> 01:21:17,965
office? I thought it was more general.

1506
01:21:18,595 --> 01:21:22,805
Yeah. See if I can find it.

1507
01:21:26,885 --> 01:21:29,605
Commercially zoned land as defined.

1508
01:21:29,825 --> 01:21:33,125
I'm looking at the guidance. RSA

1509
01:21:33,225 --> 01:21:36,405
6 74 43 1 defines multifamily dwelling.

1510
01:21:36,405 --> 01:21:39,565
Is any structures containing more than two dwelling units,

1511
01:21:40,165 --> 01:21:44,085
commercially zoned land in 6 74, 79 is land zoned

1512
01:21:44,085 --> 01:21:47,125
for such commercial activities as retail and office.

1513
01:21:47,735 --> 01:21:49,485
Where are you reading That? In the,

1514
01:21:49,485 --> 01:21:50,605
the guidance document.

1515
01:21:52,985 --> 01:21:55,165
So there, New Hampshire MA is saying that,

1516
01:21:55,665 --> 01:21:57,965
or BEA is saying that under

1517
01:21:58,545 --> 01:22:01,245
the definitions in 6 74, 79

1518
01:22:01,815 --> 01:22:04,565
commercial ac commercially zoned land is

1519
01:22:04,755 --> 01:22:05,925
land zone for retail.

1520
01:22:06,025 --> 01:22:10,245
So I, I was reading the front page here where it says

1521
01:22:11,525 --> 01:22:14,685
RSA 6 74 80 has been significantly amended

1522
01:22:14,685 --> 01:22:17,485
to expand requirements regarding mixed use

1523
01:22:18,145 --> 01:22:20,125
and multifamily developments.

1524
01:22:20,125 --> 01:22:22,605
The current law requires municipalities to permit

1525
01:22:23,275 --> 01:22:26,845
multifamily residential on commercially zoned land,

1526
01:22:27,415 --> 01:22:29,805
where an existing building is being repurposed

1527
01:22:29,805 --> 01:22:32,445
for adaptive use for residential purposes.

1528
01:22:33,225 --> 01:22:34,685
Municipalities are required

1529
01:22:34,685 --> 01:22:36,765
to afford exemptions, blah, blah, blah, blah.

1530
01:22:37,585 --> 01:22:40,805
Law has been primarily amended

1531
01:22:40,825 --> 01:22:42,885
to limit municipality's authority

1532
01:22:42,945 --> 01:22:46,645
to regulate multifamily residential development on

1533
01:22:46,925 --> 01:22:48,085
commercially zoned land

1534
01:22:49,705 --> 01:22:53,765
and repurposing of existing buildings for adaptive reuse

1535
01:22:54,345 --> 01:22:56,565
for residential purposes in their ordinances.

1536
01:22:57,745 --> 01:22:59,805
Yep. So the question is,

1537
01:23:00,235 --> 01:23:02,085
what is commercially zoned land?

1538
01:23:02,225 --> 01:23:04,925
That's on page two of the guidance document.

1539
01:23:05,055 --> 01:23:06,645
Under what you must do

1540
01:23:16,415 --> 01:23:19,255
Commercially zoned land is defined in 6 3 4 79

1541
01:23:19,255 --> 01:23:23,015
as land zone for such commercial activities as retail

1542
01:23:23,675 --> 01:23:24,775
and office spacing.

1543
01:23:24,775 --> 01:23:26,855
They're gonna, such as,

1544
01:23:29,675 --> 01:23:32,855
do we allow retail in industrial two?

1545
01:23:33,835 --> 01:23:36,295
We do. So I'm gonna say that's commercially zoned.

1546
01:23:36,525 --> 01:23:37,525
Okay.

1547
01:23:38,315 --> 01:23:39,895
All right. So then we'll have to amend,

1548
01:23:43,395 --> 01:23:44,695
all right, we'll have to do an amendment

1549
01:23:44,755 --> 01:23:46,135
to industrial too as well.

1550
01:23:57,115 --> 01:23:58,125
Okay. Where were we?

1551
01:24:01,185 --> 01:24:03,365
So we're keeping one, two, and three.

1552
01:24:05,625 --> 01:24:06,685
Get rid of four and five.

1553
01:24:07,145 --> 01:24:09,205
Get rid of four and five 'cause we can't have those

1554
01:24:09,625 --> 01:24:10,645
get rid of G.

1555
01:24:11,485 --> 01:24:15,925
However, I think you should retain that subsection one

1556
01:24:15,945 --> 01:24:19,165
and two and add them to that above so

1557
01:24:19,165 --> 01:24:21,405
that they talk about the site suitability

1558
01:24:21,585 --> 01:24:23,965
and the availability of the appropriate services.

1559
01:24:24,555 --> 01:24:25,725
Yeah, I would keep one

1560
01:24:25,725 --> 01:24:30,005
and two then make g you know,

1561
01:24:32,145 --> 01:24:33,595
site suitability requirements

1562
01:24:33,595 --> 01:24:34,995
or some other general topic

1563
01:24:34,995 --> 01:24:37,075
that would cover the one and two.

1564
01:24:37,315 --> 01:24:39,235
I don't know. Okay.

1565
01:24:39,235 --> 01:24:41,955
Leave it up to your editorial discretion.

1566
01:24:41,955 --> 01:24:43,115
What would be a good title?

1567
01:24:48,935 --> 01:24:51,635
Or you could make one and two.

1568
01:24:54,115 --> 01:24:55,375
You know, g and HI don't care.

1569
01:25:05,115 --> 01:25:08,295
And I think that we need to make it clear in here that

1570
01:25:08,825 --> 01:25:11,495
we're talking about public sewer

1571
01:25:12,755 --> 01:25:13,975
or municipal sewer.

1572
01:25:20,915 --> 01:25:23,815
And that was one thing I wanted to ask the board about.

1573
01:25:24,485 --> 01:25:26,895
It's, it's the, the, the guidance

1574
01:25:26,955 --> 01:25:29,615
and the law was clear that it needed, you needed to have

1575
01:25:30,645 --> 01:25:33,335
that, that the, the town

1576
01:25:34,225 --> 01:25:37,575
could deny an application if there was not

1577
01:25:37,715 --> 01:25:39,135
public sewer available.

1578
01:25:40,275 --> 01:25:44,815
So my question and then I guess it would kind

1579
01:25:44,815 --> 01:25:46,775
of depend on how we interpret the law.

1580
01:25:46,835 --> 01:25:50,095
So it says you can deny it if they don't have public sewer.

1581
01:25:50,435 --> 01:25:52,775
We have commercial zones

1582
01:25:53,105 --> 01:25:56,535
where we do not have public sewer available yet.

1583
01:25:57,195 --> 01:26:01,335
So that includes the GC district out near the Atkinson

1584
01:26:01,335 --> 01:26:03,685
Townline where LaBelle is located.

1585
01:26:04,425 --> 01:26:08,925
It includes a portion of GC three near the Robert Frost farm

1586
01:26:08,925 --> 01:26:10,725
because sewer stops at Berry

1587
01:26:11,265 --> 01:26:15,325
and then our entire GC four district, Ryans Hill South

1588
01:26:15,915 --> 01:26:17,245
does not have sewer available.

1589
01:26:18,585 --> 01:26:19,585
So,

1590
01:26:20,905 --> 01:26:24,605
So one of the other things is in

1591
01:26:24,605 --> 01:26:28,325
that if there is no public water and or sewer

1592
01:26:29,425 --> 01:26:32,925
and the developer's willing to extend to provide it,

1593
01:26:32,925 --> 01:26:35,005
then you have to let that be okay.

1594
01:26:35,005 --> 01:26:37,325
Correct? Correct. But if someone wanted to develop,

1595
01:26:37,945 --> 01:26:38,965
if someone wanted

1596
01:26:38,965 --> 01:26:41,885
to put in a multifamily development on Ryan's Hill,

1597
01:26:42,615 --> 01:26:45,365
let's say south, you know, a little bit more south,

1598
01:26:46,035 --> 01:26:47,445
like say south of Fody,

1599
01:26:50,355 --> 01:26:52,765
they're not by right.

1600
01:26:52,765 --> 01:26:54,165
They're allowed to do multifamily,

1601
01:26:54,265 --> 01:26:57,885
but they are not going to run the, they're not gonna pay

1602
01:26:57,885 --> 01:27:01,245
to have the sewer come all the way down 28 from Berry.

1603
01:27:01,945 --> 01:27:05,765
So I guess what I'm asking is, do we want

1604
01:27:05,785 --> 01:27:09,205
to contemplate if they can make the, if they can make

1605
01:27:10,525 --> 01:27:12,925
septics work for it, is that something we want

1606
01:27:12,925 --> 01:27:16,645
to contemplate or do we wanna just say, Nope, sorry.

1607
01:27:16,645 --> 01:27:19,205
State law says if you don't have public sewer,

1608
01:27:19,265 --> 01:27:20,525
you're, that's where you're at.

1609
01:27:23,135 --> 01:27:24,805
Lemme sort of free associate here.

1610
01:27:24,865 --> 01:27:29,435
I'm, I'm thinking that in most commercial districts,

1611
01:27:29,655 --> 01:27:33,635
the maintenance of private septic systems is

1612
01:27:35,065 --> 01:27:39,415
gonna be the responsibility of who the the owner,

1613
01:27:39,515 --> 01:27:40,935
the building owner what, whatever.

1614
01:27:40,935 --> 01:27:45,855
It's a multiple tenant building. Yeah.

1615
01:27:45,975 --> 01:27:47,095
I don't know what, what are,

1616
01:27:47,755 --> 01:27:49,815
I'm just, I'm just throwing it out there for contemplation

1617
01:27:50,295 --> 01:27:51,095
Specifically. Any thoughts on this?

1618
01:27:51,455 --> 01:27:53,375
Specifically for Ryan's Hill? I thought sewer was already

1619
01:27:53,375 --> 01:27:56,295
in the works of being expanded to Ryans Hill and beyond.

1620
01:27:56,605 --> 01:27:57,735
That is gonna be years

1621
01:27:57,955 --> 01:28:01,055
before we, we've got the funding to do the, the design,

1622
01:28:01,165 --> 01:28:02,615
like the engineering design.

1623
01:28:02,615 --> 01:28:04,335
That's what we have money for right now.

1624
01:28:04,475 --> 01:28:05,975
And then we'll put that out to bid.

1625
01:28:05,995 --> 01:28:09,335
But it's gonna be years before it gets that far down.

1626
01:28:10,285 --> 01:28:13,655
Yeah. My feeling is we,

1627
01:28:13,655 --> 01:28:15,775
we have a housing shortage in New Hampshire.

1628
01:28:16,035 --> 01:28:20,895
We, we should be allowing multifamily on septic

1629
01:28:21,035 --> 01:28:23,415
if, if there's adequate space for it.

1630
01:28:24,015 --> 01:28:26,255
I I don't think it makes sense to require

1631
01:28:27,075 --> 01:28:29,175
public sewer when public sewer's not available.

1632
01:28:36,725 --> 01:28:38,065
So yeah, I think the key word is

1633
01:28:42,565 --> 01:28:45,785
if, if if there's space on the, the parcel to, to do a,

1634
01:28:46,265 --> 01:28:50,885
a compliant subject is on given, you know,

1635
01:28:50,885 --> 01:28:54,685
where the, the general court, especially the,

1636
01:28:56,105 --> 01:28:58,525
the housing board, the housing committee

1637
01:28:58,525 --> 01:29:00,005
and the house was, was gone with that.

1638
01:29:01,585 --> 01:29:05,245
We might be getting ahead of the curve if, if we do that.

1639
01:29:05,645 --> 01:29:06,685
'cause that may be coming next.

1640
01:29:08,155 --> 01:29:13,015
Yeah. So

1641
01:29:13,315 --> 01:29:14,495
now I'm gonna do devil's.

1642
01:29:14,735 --> 01:29:16,215
I agree with, I agree

1643
01:29:16,215 --> 01:29:17,775
with your statement, that's why I brought it up.

1644
01:29:17,835 --> 01:29:20,895
So I'm gonna do devil's advocate on like the

1645
01:29:21,855 --> 01:29:23,215
economic development side of it.

1646
01:29:23,555 --> 01:29:27,855
We have very little commercially zoned land left

1647
01:29:29,835 --> 01:29:34,575
if we're only requiring 25% of the building to have

1648
01:29:35,965 --> 01:29:38,735
some sort of commercially use use.

1649
01:29:41,285 --> 01:29:45,955
I wonder, I guess I don't wanna see all of,

1650
01:29:49,995 --> 01:29:53,015
all of our commercially zoned land in areas that

1651
01:29:53,795 --> 01:29:57,175
we are looking forward to redevelopment once we have water

1652
01:29:57,195 --> 01:30:01,175
and sewer available to be all a

1653
01:30:02,185 --> 01:30:04,175
mixed use like all apartments.

1654
01:30:04,885 --> 01:30:06,735
Well, so I'm like, I'm like trying to, I'm like

1655
01:30:07,525 --> 01:30:08,775
What is our, might wanna get some, what does

1656
01:30:08,775 --> 01:30:09,775
Our master plan say?

1657
01:30:09,995 --> 01:30:11,975
We might need legal advice on that. Yeah.

1658
01:30:13,355 --> 01:30:16,935
My reading of the tea leaves is

1659
01:30:16,935 --> 01:30:20,295
that the general court doesn't care about our tax base.

1660
01:30:20,525 --> 01:30:23,015
They're way more concerned about housing people.

1661
01:30:23,645 --> 01:30:25,215
Okay. And, and is it,

1662
01:30:25,235 --> 01:30:29,175
but are we, are we permitted to do something that's contrary

1663
01:30:29,175 --> 01:30:33,335
to our master plan if our master plan envisioned that as a,

1664
01:30:33,355 --> 01:30:36,855
or has that set out as a different use or whatever?

1665
01:30:40,955 --> 01:30:42,935
Let me answer that differently. Okay.

1666
01:30:43,075 --> 01:30:44,935
If the master, if, if complying

1667
01:30:44,935 --> 01:30:48,655
with a master plan requires us to violate state law, we need

1668
01:30:48,655 --> 01:30:49,655
to violate the master plan.

1669
01:30:49,655 --> 01:30:51,815
Correct? I, I, I agree. Okay.

1670
01:30:51,855 --> 01:30:54,175
I just wanna like make sure we line up all of our ducks.

1671
01:30:54,525 --> 01:30:56,255
Okay. Okay.

1672
01:30:57,755 --> 01:31:02,255
Now Should we

1673
01:31:02,815 --> 01:31:05,815
increase the amount of commercial space we're

1674
01:31:05,815 --> 01:31:06,975
requiring on the ground floor?

1675
01:31:08,215 --> 01:31:12,875
The 'cause we said 25% of the entire structure and then

1676
01:31:13,315 --> 01:31:16,115
because we realized we, we possibly can't do that.

1677
01:31:16,245 --> 01:31:18,675
We're saying 25% of the ground floor. Yep.

1678
01:31:19,175 --> 01:31:21,955
May maybe we should up it to 50% of the ground floor.

1679
01:31:24,135 --> 01:31:27,435
33%. I don't know.

1680
01:31:28,025 --> 01:31:29,915
Well, state law allows us to a hundred percent

1681
01:31:29,915 --> 01:31:31,075
of ground floor if we want.

1682
01:31:31,995 --> 01:31:33,275
I don't personally want

1683
01:31:33,275 --> 01:31:35,035
to do a hundred percent of the ground floor.

1684
01:31:35,775 --> 01:31:38,155
Is there, if we're concerned about using up all the

1685
01:31:38,155 --> 01:31:42,795
commercial zoned area, maybe we, we differentiate between,

1686
01:31:43,695 --> 01:31:44,755
you know, if it's in one

1687
01:31:44,755 --> 01:31:47,035
of those areas we're concerned about overdeveloping into

1688
01:31:47,035 --> 01:31:50,435
apartments, maybe in those areas it has to be 100%

1689
01:31:50,435 --> 01:31:53,795
of the bottom floor or a higher number of some sort.

1690
01:31:55,515 --> 01:31:58,845
Well, I mean we do have a number of zones

1691
01:31:58,845 --> 01:32:01,125
that fall under the general definition

1692
01:32:01,125 --> 01:32:02,285
of commercially zoned.

1693
01:32:03,465 --> 01:32:08,205
And I think we could have differing percentages for

1694
01:32:08,935 --> 01:32:10,685
those different districts, I think.

1695
01:32:12,185 --> 01:32:14,995
Yep, we could. So this is for,

1696
01:32:15,045 --> 01:32:17,995
we're we're talking about general commercial right now.

1697
01:32:18,295 --> 01:32:23,195
So general commercial district currently is Crystal Ave

1698
01:32:23,535 --> 01:32:25,195
mostly developed.

1699
01:32:25,945 --> 01:32:28,315
There's a couple of places if someone wanted

1700
01:32:28,315 --> 01:32:29,355
to, they could add this.

1701
01:32:31,065 --> 01:32:34,515
Then the other remaining portion of general commercial is

1702
01:32:34,515 --> 01:32:35,955
that small section.

1703
01:32:36,345 --> 01:32:40,155
That is where LaBelle Winery is.

1704
01:32:40,305 --> 01:32:42,115
There's a very, there's a small section.

1705
01:32:42,215 --> 01:32:45,595
It kind of hits that, you know, 14,

1706
01:32:46,105 --> 01:32:47,995
16 route one 11 area.

1707
01:32:48,865 --> 01:32:53,765
Well de depending on the density that can be obtained,

1708
01:32:55,845 --> 01:32:58,805
I think we have to also envision the possibility of

1709
01:33:00,925 --> 01:33:02,125
redevelopment to tear down and,

1710
01:33:02,125 --> 01:33:06,325
and building a high rise in an existing commercial,

1711
01:33:07,365 --> 01:33:08,645
general commercial district.

1712
01:33:08,895 --> 01:33:11,085
Especially if, if there's a, a property

1713
01:33:11,085 --> 01:33:13,205
that isn't performing or is kind of

1714
01:33:14,845 --> 01:33:16,045
slightly less valuable than others.

1715
01:33:16,265 --> 01:33:19,925
So when we, when we say, oh, all the lions built, yeah,

1716
01:33:20,305 --> 01:33:23,165
it can be rebuilt if, if the economics work

1717
01:33:23,675 --> 01:33:24,675
True.

1718
01:33:24,715 --> 01:33:25,005
Yeah.

1719
01:33:31,795 --> 01:33:34,575
So for gc, what do we want to change?

1720
01:33:34,755 --> 01:33:36,295
Do we wanna change the percentage?

1721
01:33:42,875 --> 01:33:47,065
Again, I've seen in the past where we come up with

1722
01:33:49,105 --> 01:33:53,345
aspirational things to, you know, protect our,

1723
01:33:53,485 --> 01:33:55,425
our ability to grow the tax base.

1724
01:33:55,595 --> 01:33:57,625
Right. But no one wants to use them.

1725
01:34:00,805 --> 01:34:01,825
We do say a minimum.

1726
01:34:02,245 --> 01:34:03,985
So I mean someone could come in

1727
01:34:03,985 --> 01:34:05,305
and say, well I'm gonna put a restaurant,

1728
01:34:05,305 --> 01:34:06,985
which is, you know Yeah.

1729
01:34:07,525 --> 01:34:09,985
The entire ground floor with apartments above.

1730
01:34:13,835 --> 01:34:17,455
So I do understand that the town has

1731
01:34:18,495 --> 01:34:22,895
a parochial interest in maintaining our ability

1732
01:34:22,895 --> 01:34:25,935
to expand our commercial tax base.

1733
01:34:26,135 --> 01:34:29,495
'cause property taxes are expensive everywhere.

1734
01:34:33,895 --> 01:34:36,395
We just need to be careful that we don't put in requirements

1735
01:34:36,395 --> 01:34:39,795
that cause developers to have a lot

1736
01:34:39,795 --> 01:34:42,035
of unrented space going begging.

1737
01:34:42,695 --> 01:34:44,475
And that's kind of like predicting

1738
01:34:44,475 --> 01:34:46,795
where the market's going in future years,

1739
01:34:46,805 --> 01:34:48,795
which is I don't have a crystal ball.

1740
01:34:48,945 --> 01:34:49,945
Yeah.

1741
01:34:50,465 --> 01:34:52,555
Okay. So I don't know what this is gonna,

1742
01:34:54,425 --> 01:34:55,675
this is gonna be a judgment call.

1743
01:34:56,355 --> 01:34:58,545
I don't know that we have, I mean,

1744
01:34:58,545 --> 01:35:01,625
unless we, you know, Brian's not here.

1745
01:35:01,625 --> 01:35:03,545
Where's Brian? He's our, he's our realtor.

1746
01:35:03,725 --> 01:35:05,225
You could tell us, right? Yeah.

1747
01:35:05,565 --> 01:35:09,185
But, but, but by my opinion is I've seen a lot of

1748
01:35:10,365 --> 01:35:11,575
storefronts, you know, with

1749
01:35:11,755 --> 01:35:14,495
for lease signs on them recently.

1750
01:35:15,885 --> 01:35:19,015
Yeah. I I think a small minimum gets a

1751
01:35:19,015 --> 01:35:20,295
foothold in there for commercial.

1752
01:35:20,515 --> 01:35:23,655
And I, I would much rather have an apartment than

1753
01:35:23,775 --> 01:35:24,935
a empty storefront.

1754
01:35:27,595 --> 01:35:29,175
Do we wanna just leave it for now

1755
01:35:29,175 --> 01:35:31,015
and we can highlight it for the next workshop?

1756
01:35:32,215 --> 01:35:33,415
We can do that. We could, we could

1757
01:35:33,415 --> 01:35:34,535
kick the can down the road.

1758
01:35:34,995 --> 01:35:37,535
Yep. 'cause I'm sure this will not be the last workshop.

1759
01:35:38,035 --> 01:35:40,295
No, no, No.

1760
01:35:40,475 --> 01:35:45,215
So, alright. We can, we can do that. All right.

1761
01:35:45,215 --> 01:35:48,135
So we will do that. And then so GC two,

1762
01:35:48,595 --> 01:35:52,415
the general commercial two district, which is

1763
01:35:53,405 --> 01:35:56,375
that is, that is our,

1764
01:35:57,475 --> 01:35:59,735
that's the Shanita road district.

1765
01:36:00,075 --> 01:36:02,815
So Shanita Road and then it goes north up the bypass

1766
01:36:03,555 --> 01:36:06,295
and stops right at the cell tower.

1767
01:36:08,835 --> 01:36:11,575
So, and that was intended to be more

1768
01:36:11,575 --> 01:36:13,935
of a medical area.

1769
01:36:15,715 --> 01:36:19,375
So in this one we mimic the requirements

1770
01:36:19,445 --> 01:36:21,775
that are in the general commercial district

1771
01:36:21,795 --> 01:36:24,575
and we also add childcare center since we need

1772
01:36:24,575 --> 01:36:26,055
to permit those in commercial zones.

1773
01:36:29,075 --> 01:36:30,535
Anyone have any issues with that?

1774
01:36:32,845 --> 01:36:34,255
Okay. Seems

1775
01:36:34,255 --> 01:36:35,255
Reasonable to me.

1776
01:36:35,445 --> 01:36:38,535
Okay. GC three, same changes.

1777
01:36:40,515 --> 01:36:43,975
GC three is the area right around the Robert Frost Farm,

1778
01:36:51,825 --> 01:36:54,375
which that one actually gives me angst if the state ever

1779
01:36:54,375 --> 01:36:56,575
decided to sell property, I'm like, oh,

1780
01:36:56,765 --> 01:36:59,575
multifamily right next to the farm. But

1781
01:37:00,285 --> 01:37:03,855
Yeah, I mean, as written

1782
01:37:05,225 --> 01:37:10,205
you six may come into conflict with a purpose about Yes.

1783
01:37:10,795 --> 01:37:12,285
Size, height, and architecture.

1784
01:37:14,745 --> 01:37:18,645
So in, perhaps we come up with our own like a, a different

1785
01:37:19,315 --> 01:37:23,925
density and maybe

1786
01:37:24,035 --> 01:37:26,125
this district, because it's so special,

1787
01:37:26,855 --> 01:37:29,765
might need a different density requirement in an

1788
01:37:30,795 --> 01:37:35,285
retaining maybe the 25 minimum 25% of commercial.

1789
01:37:35,705 --> 01:37:36,705
But,

1790
01:37:39,475 --> 01:37:42,925
Well, I mean, on the face of it,

1791
01:37:43,425 --> 01:37:45,365
making it a general commercial three

1792
01:37:45,385 --> 01:37:49,485
and then trying to protect protect the historic neighborhood

1793
01:37:49,585 --> 01:37:51,045
is kind of oxymoronic.

1794
01:37:51,425 --> 01:37:52,925
It is. I know.

1795
01:37:53,145 --> 01:37:56,645
And I, I will tell you that from, you know, case law,

1796
01:37:56,665 --> 01:37:58,485
you cannot enforce purposes

1797
01:38:00,425 --> 01:38:02,805
unless there's specific requirements that

1798
01:38:03,785 --> 01:38:05,165
You have to have a purpose though

1799
01:38:05,175 --> 01:38:06,245
hooks it lost. You have to have

1800
01:38:06,245 --> 01:38:07,245
A purpose.

1801
01:38:07,245 --> 01:38:09,045
But the purpose is not sufficient to limit what goes in,

1802
01:38:18,765 --> 01:38:19,885
I guess I would not like

1803
01:38:19,885 --> 01:38:21,365
to see a big apartment building right next

1804
01:38:21,365 --> 01:38:22,565
to the Robert Foster Farm.

1805
01:38:23,985 --> 01:38:25,885
But how would we deal with that?

1806
01:38:32,205 --> 01:38:33,985
Change the density requirement

1807
01:38:40,045 --> 01:38:41,305
And something is going into

1808
01:38:41,305 --> 01:38:42,785
that Robert Frost Farm eventually

1809
01:38:43,765 --> 01:38:44,945
You mean this, you think the

1810
01:38:44,945 --> 01:38:45,985
state's gonna sell the property?

1811
01:38:47,665 --> 01:38:52,045
The, the land that abuts the Robert Frost farm, between

1812
01:38:52,075 --> 01:38:55,525
that and the trailer park where I'm talking, coming down

1813
01:38:55,525 --> 01:38:57,765
to the dead proof of the old clam haven,

1814
01:38:59,315 --> 01:39:01,085
something will be in there eventually.

1815
01:39:03,825 --> 01:39:06,165
So where the Robert Frost farm is, is if you were to go,

1816
01:39:06,265 --> 01:39:07,605
Oh, that's West Running Brook though.

1817
01:39:07,995 --> 01:39:09,365
Okay. So that empty lot,

1818
01:39:09,505 --> 01:39:12,125
the Smith lot is the West Running Brook district.

1819
01:39:13,185 --> 01:39:15,925
So the GC three starts after that.

1820
01:39:16,055 --> 01:39:17,005
After that. Okay.

1821
01:39:24,135 --> 01:39:28,345
Yeah, I'm gonna guess that West Running Brook,

1822
01:39:28,345 --> 01:39:30,465
because of its allowed uses is probably also

1823
01:39:30,825 --> 01:39:32,385
considered commercially zoned.

1824
01:39:36,015 --> 01:39:38,955
We do permit multifamily in there. So with it's zoned.

1825
01:39:38,955 --> 01:39:40,555
Yep. So that's already, we're

1826
01:39:40,555 --> 01:39:41,555
Good there.

1827
01:39:41,555 --> 01:39:43,915
I don't know, maybe we can put a, a pin in this

1828
01:39:43,915 --> 01:39:45,155
because Okay.

1829
01:39:45,695 --> 01:39:50,475
If we really wanna have a buffer of

1830
01:39:51,675 --> 01:39:55,315
neighborhood compatibility around that property,

1831
01:39:55,315 --> 01:39:58,595
we're gonna have to do something more than we've got here.

1832
01:39:58,795 --> 01:40:01,355
I think we've just been lucky. I mean, high love Brook

1833
01:40:02,505 --> 01:40:04,395
waiting facilities just down the road for that.

1834
01:40:04,395 --> 01:40:06,715
And that's very nice and it sit back,

1835
01:40:07,695 --> 01:40:10,845
but it, Mr.

1836
01:40:11,085 --> 01:40:13,565
Ey says at some point something's going to come before us.

1837
01:40:15,665 --> 01:40:18,485
We have a very limited list of permitted uses in

1838
01:40:18,485 --> 01:40:19,845
that district, which helps.

1839
01:40:25,005 --> 01:40:27,425
So maybe we would need to put

1840
01:40:27,945 --> 01:40:30,025
a different density restriction on,

1841
01:40:30,045 --> 01:40:32,105
on the multifamily use in that district.

1842
01:40:33,175 --> 01:40:34,225
Yeah, there's that.

1843
01:40:34,285 --> 01:40:36,145
And then I'm also, as I'm looking at,

1844
01:40:39,005 --> 01:40:41,265
as I'm looking at the list of permitted uses,

1845
01:40:41,355 --> 01:40:46,025
we're talking about, we're, we're talking about like

1846
01:40:46,615 --> 01:40:49,945
5,000 gross square feet

1847
01:40:50,125 --> 01:40:54,365
or 2,500, you know, 5,000.

1848
01:40:54,755 --> 01:40:56,645
Like we, we, we put

1849
01:40:57,665 --> 01:40:59,765
square foot limits on our uses.

1850
01:41:00,705 --> 01:41:04,845
So if, if I want to build a multi-family there

1851
01:41:05,025 --> 01:41:07,205
and I wanna put in a retail store,

1852
01:41:12,305 --> 01:41:15,125
the ordinance in this section says my retail store has

1853
01:41:15,125 --> 01:41:18,765
to be 5,000 square feet, which defeats the purpose

1854
01:41:18,865 --> 01:41:21,365
of not having a huge multifamily.

1855
01:41:21,905 --> 01:41:23,285
So we may, you know,

1856
01:41:23,475 --> 01:41:26,725
this the general commercial three district, we,

1857
01:41:26,825 --> 01:41:28,325
we may wanna take a look at that

1858
01:41:29,345 --> 01:41:32,125
and look at, like, look at that

1859
01:41:32,145 --> 01:41:35,205
as a whole and

1860
01:41:38,705 --> 01:41:39,705
Amend it.

1861
01:41:39,705 --> 01:41:40,255
Well I'll, I'll be honest with you,

1862
01:41:41,055 --> 01:41:42,895
I haven't really given this a look,

1863
01:41:42,895 --> 01:41:44,375
but reading the permitted uses

1864
01:41:44,775 --> 01:41:48,975
and reading the purpose, they are repeat it oxymoronic.

1865
01:41:50,795 --> 01:41:52,535
So we gotta change one or the other.

1866
01:41:52,925 --> 01:41:54,175
Yeah. So let's,

1867
01:41:54,515 --> 01:41:56,135
I'm just gonna highlight this whole section

1868
01:41:56,515 --> 01:41:58,975
and maybe we can, we can come back to this.

1869
01:42:08,185 --> 01:42:09,315
Okay. Okay.

1870
01:42:09,575 --> 01:42:13,035
And then GC four were the same changes that we made

1871
01:42:13,095 --> 01:42:16,275
for general commercial and GC two.

1872
01:42:17,255 --> 01:42:21,435
So where is GC four General commercial four starts?

1873
01:42:23,515 --> 01:42:25,995
I think It's, it's that just south? No, no,

1874
01:42:25,995 --> 01:42:28,235
I, I, I geographically where Is that? I'm so sorry.

1875
01:42:28,255 --> 01:42:31,195
Oh yeah, so it's, it's south of

1876
01:42:33,655 --> 01:42:37,755
it starts just below, I wanna say it's

1877
01:42:38,055 --> 01:42:39,275
FO and GC four.

1878
01:42:39,335 --> 01:42:40,515
That's, I was Wondering too.

1879
01:42:40,835 --> 01:42:42,835
I should have brought in my laptop with a GIS

1880
01:42:42,935 --> 01:42:43,955
so we can project it,

1881
01:42:44,415 --> 01:42:45,415
Put it up.

1882
01:42:45,415 --> 01:42:49,795
So yeah, so it runs as you're looking at the,

1883
01:42:50,015 --> 01:42:53,075
as you're looking at like the zoning map, it starts at,

1884
01:42:54,515 --> 01:42:55,875
I don't know the exact spot,

1885
01:42:55,875 --> 01:42:59,475
but it starts like right in the general area of like fody

1886
01:42:59,475 --> 01:43:01,115
and it runs, it's the rest of it

1887
01:43:01,115 --> 01:43:02,715
and it runs all the way to the townline.

1888
01:43:03,415 --> 01:43:07,715
Can you bring up the founds website GS and find out

1889
01:43:07,815 --> 01:43:09,515
For us maybe the zoning, the zoning map.

1890
01:43:09,515 --> 01:43:11,555
You can find it on the, if you go

1891
01:43:11,555 --> 01:43:14,235
to the planning board page under forms and

1892
01:43:14,295 --> 01:43:16,675
or ordinances, it should be a link right there.

1893
01:43:17,495 --> 01:43:18,515
Thanks. Thank you.

1894
01:43:19,255 --> 01:43:23,195
So are you saying from fody down to ACE Paving

1895
01:43:23,695 --> 01:43:25,715
and Vincent's Auto Sale all the way down to

1896
01:43:25,775 --> 01:43:26,955
The town? That's all the way down to the,

1897
01:43:26,975 --> 01:43:29,715
That's all g that's all this GC four.

1898
01:43:30,615 --> 01:43:31,915
Yep. It goes right to the town

1899
01:43:31,915 --> 01:43:32,915
Line.

1900
01:43:32,915 --> 01:43:34,475
It's not GC two or any of that stuff? No,

1901
01:43:34,475 --> 01:43:35,475
It's GC four.

1902
01:43:35,665 --> 01:43:38,395
Okay, Well that's pretty

1903
01:43:39,685 --> 01:43:41,055
diverse and pretty businesslike.

1904
01:43:41,275 --> 01:43:41,895
It is.

1905
01:43:53,885 --> 01:43:54,885
I guess I don't have a a,

1906
01:43:55,745 --> 01:43:58,125
So if an assisted living place were

1907
01:43:58,125 --> 01:44:02,485
to go in across the street from Legis, hypothetically,

1908
01:44:03,145 --> 01:44:04,485
if an assisted living place was

1909
01:44:04,485 --> 01:44:08,405
to go in across the street from ACEs paving,

1910
01:44:08,455 --> 01:44:12,725
which is Vincent's, which was one of those car places,

1911
01:44:13,985 --> 01:44:15,365
how would the septic and water,

1912
01:44:17,475 --> 01:44:19,965
They would have to, they would have to, they'd have

1913
01:44:19,965 --> 01:44:21,165
to make the septic work.

1914
01:44:21,625 --> 01:44:22,685
We have waters available.

1915
01:44:22,685 --> 01:44:26,445
They'd have to bring it under, under 28 across the street.

1916
01:44:27,085 --> 01:44:28,765
'cause water's on water's on the

1917
01:44:30,635 --> 01:44:31,635
West Side.

1918
01:44:31,635 --> 01:44:32,285
West side, yeah. Okay.

1919
01:44:34,005 --> 01:44:35,005
I was just curious. Well, and,

1920
01:44:35,025 --> 01:44:37,485
and I, I think that's why in the long term capital

1921
01:44:37,485 --> 01:44:39,885
improvement plan, you know, sewers going down there

1922
01:44:39,885 --> 01:44:42,725
because there is any limitation on

1923
01:44:42,725 --> 01:44:46,485
what folks will build based on availability

1924
01:44:46,485 --> 01:44:48,245
of those utilities.

1925
01:44:49,425 --> 01:44:51,445
So just because you haven't allowed use

1926
01:44:51,955 --> 01:44:54,045
doesn't mean anyone's gonna build something

1927
01:44:54,135 --> 01:44:57,805
until economic sense.

1928
01:44:57,825 --> 01:44:59,725
And that may mean town silver.

1929
01:45:01,035 --> 01:45:01,325
Yeah.

1930
01:45:06,825 --> 01:45:08,285
So unless anyone thinks that

1931
01:45:09,525 --> 01:45:12,525
allowing those developments in there, assuming that anyone

1932
01:45:13,455 --> 01:45:16,205
could make that work is, is a bad thing,

1933
01:45:16,205 --> 01:45:17,885
then I don't see a, I don't see a problem.

1934
01:45:21,955 --> 01:45:22,955
Okay.

1935
01:45:23,595 --> 01:45:25,805
Okay. On to OBD

1936
01:45:26,665 --> 01:45:27,085
And then,

1937
01:45:31,875 --> 01:45:33,855
so office, business district,

1938
01:45:35,565 --> 01:45:37,335
what we did, oh, there we go.

1939
01:45:37,335 --> 01:45:38,375
Oh, here's our map. So,

1940
01:45:42,725 --> 01:45:45,345
so the, the red section is, the

1941
01:45:51,445 --> 01:45:53,225
Red section is the fairways. Fairways,

1942
01:45:53,225 --> 01:45:54,225
Yeah.

1943
01:45:54,225 --> 01:45:54,945
So that's West running Brook.

1944
01:45:55,845 --> 01:45:58,745
And then, and then, so the,

1945
01:45:58,805 --> 01:46:00,625
the red section's west running Brook.

1946
01:46:01,645 --> 01:46:02,945
And then we go to,

1947
01:46:07,585 --> 01:46:11,885
Oh, the, the tan stuff south of the red section is west

1948
01:46:11,885 --> 01:46:12,965
Running Brook is west running Brook.

1949
01:46:12,995 --> 01:46:15,485
Okay. And then the orange is oranges is

1950
01:46:16,145 --> 01:46:18,925
GC Three, GC three, and then the pink is GC four.

1951
01:46:19,665 --> 01:46:21,285
So it starts at GC four,

1952
01:46:23,125 --> 01:46:25,645
Lawrence Road goes south.

1953
01:46:29,185 --> 01:46:30,845
Is OBD like Shani?

1954
01:46:31,985 --> 01:46:34,765
No. So, so we're looking at that pink section

1955
01:46:34,825 --> 01:46:36,005
that's GC four

1956
01:46:36,545 --> 01:46:38,565
and I think that is, that looks like Lawrence Road.

1957
01:46:39,035 --> 01:46:42,605
Yeah, it is. Yeah. Well I think we moved on

1958
01:46:42,685 --> 01:46:43,965
to, okay. OBD.

1959
01:46:44,395 --> 01:46:49,205
Okay. So OBD office business district is on the London

1960
01:46:49,255 --> 01:46:52,885
dairy town line on West Broadway.

1961
01:46:57,885 --> 01:47:00,385
So you're talking about, no, yeah,

1962
01:47:00,445 --> 01:47:01,945
scroll up just a little bit Owen

1963
01:47:05,525 --> 01:47:06,385
up a little bit more

1964
01:47:11,085 --> 01:47:12,425
and it, oh, sorry.

1965
01:47:12,485 --> 01:47:15,425
No, you're right. So yeah, go up just a little bit more. Be

1966
01:47:15,425 --> 01:47:16,425
That white Area.

1967
01:47:16,425 --> 01:47:17,545
Yeah. OBD is that whitish color?

1968
01:47:17,765 --> 01:47:20,705
Oh yeah, right along the street. Yep. Yeah. Yep.

1969
01:47:22,765 --> 01:47:23,765
Okay. Got it.

1970
01:47:29,855 --> 01:47:33,915
So currently in the OBD multifamily dwellings are

1971
01:47:33,915 --> 01:47:38,715
permitted as per the section 1 65 49 B

1972
01:47:38,715 --> 01:47:40,195
one, which is the TBOD.

1973
01:47:40,495 --> 01:47:43,595
The TBOD allows 45 units an acre.

1974
01:47:43,835 --> 01:47:45,915
I was thinking the board

1975
01:47:48,615 --> 01:47:50,755
didn't wanna refer back to the TBOD

1976
01:47:53,145 --> 01:47:56,795
when we had originally done the zoning for the OBD,

1977
01:47:57,255 --> 01:48:00,795
the density requirement was much less in the TBOD.

1978
01:48:12,135 --> 01:48:13,595
All right. Anything else on OBD?

1979
01:48:15,465 --> 01:48:17,195
Okay, So neighborhood commercial,

1980
01:48:17,195 --> 01:48:19,395
that's the one we fairly recently created.

1981
01:48:19,705 --> 01:48:22,035
Yeah. And we tried to make sure that everything

1982
01:48:22,035 --> 01:48:24,635
that goes in there is kind of like a bed and breakfast

1983
01:48:24,635 --> 01:48:29,515
and has a a, a residential look to it, at least on,

1984
01:48:29,655 --> 01:48:31,835
on the one side of the street.

1985
01:48:31,935 --> 01:48:35,395
So I, I think you will need to

1986
01:48:37,465 --> 01:48:39,475
make it subject to the dimensional requirements

1987
01:48:40,095 --> 01:48:41,915
in subsection C.

1988
01:48:47,575 --> 01:48:49,515
So we have those and then

1989
01:49:02,695 --> 01:49:03,755
The red is MFR.

1990
01:49:04,875 --> 01:49:06,035
Hmm. The red is MFR

1991
01:49:06,605 --> 01:49:07,605
49.

1992
01:49:08,015 --> 01:49:09,075
And I, I think there's,

1993
01:49:09,575 --> 01:49:11,555
unless there's tear downs, there's not a lot of

1994
01:49:13,695 --> 01:49:15,435
new bill opportunity in that district.

1995
01:49:15,435 --> 01:49:16,435
Right?

1996
01:49:17,635 --> 01:49:19,435
I don't think. Yeah, I don't think so.

1997
01:49:20,615 --> 01:49:21,615
It wouldn't be a lot.

1998
01:49:24,585 --> 01:49:28,835
Okay. Fairways, that's MFR

1999
01:49:31,415 --> 01:49:32,435
on page one 17.

2000
01:49:47,425 --> 01:49:48,725
And so it's five Shanita Road,

2001
01:49:59,905 --> 01:50:00,125
huh?

2002
01:50:05,095 --> 01:50:07,045
Right. But we were looking at the red on the map.

2003
01:50:07,545 --> 01:50:10,485
Oh, okay. All right. Sorry. Okay. Okay.

2004
01:50:14,065 --> 01:50:15,065
Are we on to,

2005
01:50:16,575 --> 01:50:17,565
We're trying to figure out what

2006
01:50:17,565 --> 01:50:18,365
you, what you guys are doing.

2007
01:50:18,705 --> 01:50:22,245
Oh yeah, no, we were, we, were we looking at

2008
01:50:22,375 --> 01:50:26,725
where we were on the zoning map and I got confused

2009
01:50:26,725 --> 01:50:28,845
and thought he was, I got confused.

2010
01:50:29,225 --> 01:50:30,965
So it's after eight 30.

2011
01:50:31,995 --> 01:50:33,845
Alright, so we're, are we moving on

2012
01:50:33,845 --> 01:50:36,165
to industrial two now please?

2013
01:50:36,165 --> 01:50:39,725
Alright. Yep. So that one we're gonna have to get rid

2014
01:50:39,725 --> 01:50:42,885
of under H subsection one.

2015
01:50:44,945 --> 01:50:49,365
And then I think we could just renumber that as,

2016
01:50:49,865 --> 01:50:52,885
so two would become one, three would become two,

2017
01:50:54,385 --> 01:50:56,005
and then four would become three.

2018
01:50:59,565 --> 01:51:03,145
And then I guess if we, if we wanted,

2019
01:51:03,445 --> 01:51:05,505
do we wanna make the same change there

2020
01:51:05,685 --> 01:51:07,505
and say it has to be on the first floor?

2021
01:51:09,415 --> 01:51:13,545
Yeah, I think we could mirror this. Okay.

2022
01:51:14,005 --> 01:51:15,785
The other place we had a conditional use permit

2023
01:51:15,805 --> 01:51:16,865
and we just got rid of it.

2024
01:51:17,735 --> 01:51:22,305
Okay. And then we would get rid

2025
01:51:22,305 --> 01:51:23,865
of five and six.

2026
01:51:24,165 --> 01:51:25,265
Yep. Okay.

2027
01:51:27,085 --> 01:51:29,265
And then for the rest of the changes,

2028
01:51:34,475 --> 01:51:36,535
medium high density residential two,

2029
01:51:38,365 --> 01:51:41,095
we'd add in the innovative housing structures

2030
01:51:41,095 --> 01:51:44,015
because we permit single family detached dwellings.

2031
01:51:44,605 --> 01:51:48,295
Okay. The same is for medium density residential.

2032
01:51:48,795 --> 01:51:52,775
Yep. And also low medium density residential

2033
01:51:53,275 --> 01:51:54,975
and low density residential.

2034
01:51:58,335 --> 01:51:59,905
Okay. And

2035
01:51:59,905 --> 01:52:00,905
Then that make sense to everyone?

2036
01:52:01,375 --> 01:52:02,985
Yeah. Is that good? Yeah.

2037
01:52:04,135 --> 01:52:07,425
This last section changes to the powers

2038
01:52:07,425 --> 01:52:08,905
of the zoning board of adjustment.

2039
01:52:09,105 --> 01:52:11,265
I will be completely honest, these came out of

2040
01:52:11,655 --> 01:52:13,385
that house bill 2 44

2041
01:52:14,285 --> 01:52:17,065
and there's a whole section towards the back of that.

2042
01:52:17,545 --> 01:52:21,145
I don't understand what the state is trying to do.

2043
01:52:21,235 --> 01:52:24,945
Bless you. Thank you. I'd like to hold off on this

2044
01:52:25,115 --> 01:52:27,305
until we get a little bit more guidance.

2045
01:52:29,145 --> 01:52:30,145
I,

2046
01:52:30,655 --> 01:52:31,825
Yeah, Yeah.

2047
01:52:32,505 --> 01:52:33,505
I think,

2048
01:52:33,925 --> 01:52:35,505
Oh my god, this is a big, I

2049
01:52:35,505 --> 01:52:36,865
Think what they're trying to say is

2050
01:52:36,885 --> 01:52:37,905
6 74 13.

2051
01:52:37,935 --> 01:52:41,105
That, that's, that, that's an, a new one.

2052
01:52:41,225 --> 01:52:42,225
I won't find it in the book.

2053
01:52:42,225 --> 01:52:45,365
Yeah, yeah. So what I think they're trying to say is

2054
01:52:45,365 --> 01:52:48,165
that when you have, it's, it's related

2055
01:52:48,185 --> 01:52:51,365
to the change last year when you have

2056
01:52:54,635 --> 01:52:56,805
like, they're roads that are not on the pub,

2057
01:52:56,905 --> 01:52:58,565
on the official map of the town.

2058
01:52:58,625 --> 01:53:01,525
So they're not roads that are accepted by the town of Derry.

2059
01:53:02,385 --> 01:53:05,765
So when it, I think it relates to how,

2060
01:53:06,945 --> 01:53:11,765
how you can permit structures.

2061
01:53:11,865 --> 01:53:16,005
So if you have, have a lot

2062
01:53:16,315 --> 01:53:18,165
that doesn't have access on a town road,

2063
01:53:18,225 --> 01:53:19,445
and maybe it's a big lot

2064
01:53:20,465 --> 01:53:25,125
and you, you wanna like build out in the middle of nowhere.

2065
01:53:25,565 --> 01:53:27,845
I mean it doesn't really apply to us as much

2066
01:53:27,845 --> 01:53:29,325
because we don't have a lot of

2067
01:53:29,975 --> 01:53:30,975
Large track.

2068
01:53:30,975 --> 01:53:33,605
Is this, is this related to like building on

2069
01:53:34,835 --> 01:53:35,445
Yeah. Like the

2070
01:53:35,475 --> 01:53:37,365
Dead end roads and things Discontinued,

2071
01:53:37,385 --> 01:53:38,405
not the dead end ones.

2072
01:53:38,405 --> 01:53:40,165
Those take that, that's a different one

2073
01:53:40,165 --> 01:53:41,605
that takes effect next year.

2074
01:53:42,025 --> 01:53:43,165
We didn't touch that yet.

2075
01:53:44,305 --> 01:53:46,525
The this is, these are roads

2076
01:53:46,525 --> 01:53:48,685
that are not on the official town map

2077
01:53:49,105 --> 01:53:53,605
and how if the building official denies a permit,

2078
01:53:54,705 --> 01:53:59,645
the zoning board can under the, how I read it

2079
01:53:59,705 --> 01:54:03,045
and, and I need to get clarification, I understood it to say

2080
01:54:03,045 --> 01:54:06,445
that the zoning board upon appeal could issue the building

2081
01:54:06,665 --> 01:54:11,245
or grant permission to issue the building permit if,

2082
01:54:11,905 --> 01:54:13,885
if the structure

2083
01:54:15,585 --> 01:54:17,005
was placed a certain way.

2084
01:54:17,445 --> 01:54:20,325
I don't under it's very confusing language.

2085
01:54:20,635 --> 01:54:22,605
Well, so there is an existing

2086
01:54:27,915 --> 01:54:29,135
6 74 13

2087
01:54:32,475 --> 01:54:37,095
and it starts on page 4 0 7,

2088
01:54:37,205 --> 01:54:38,855
goes on to 4 0 8 in the book.

2089
01:54:40,355 --> 01:54:41,135
And it does say,

2090
01:54:45,975 --> 01:54:47,085
where do I wanna start?

2091
01:54:48,925 --> 01:54:53,165
I shall have further power in specific cases by a vote

2092
01:54:53,165 --> 01:54:57,765
of the majority of its members upon appeal filed to it

2093
01:54:57,785 --> 01:55:00,285
by the owner of any such land to grant a permit

2094
01:55:01,095 --> 01:55:05,085
based on considerations of justice and equity for a building

2095
01:55:05,145 --> 01:55:06,165
or structure on

2096
01:55:06,625 --> 01:55:11,125
or part thereof in a map, in a map street location

2097
01:55:12,615 --> 01:55:14,205
shown on the official map.

2098
01:55:15,705 --> 01:55:18,805
In any case in which the Board

2099
01:55:18,805 --> 01:55:21,365
of Adjustment finds upon evide the evidence

2100
01:55:21,385 --> 01:55:25,125
and arguments presented to it upon appeal, A,

2101
01:55:25,595 --> 01:55:29,605
that the property of the appellant, which

2102
01:55:30,675 --> 01:55:33,445
such map street location forms a part of,

2103
01:55:33,445 --> 01:55:35,525
will not yield a reasonable return to the owner

2104
01:55:35,625 --> 01:55:37,165
unless the permit is granted.

2105
01:55:37,265 --> 01:55:39,605
Or b, that balancing the interest

2106
01:55:39,605 --> 01:55:41,525
of the municipality in preserving the integrity

2107
01:55:41,545 --> 01:55:45,885
of the official map and not increasing to greatly the cost

2108
01:55:46,345 --> 01:55:49,045
of later opening such a street and the interest of the owner

2109
01:55:49,065 --> 01:55:51,365
and the use of and benefits of the owner's property.

2110
01:55:52,205 --> 01:55:54,085
The grant of such permit is required

2111
01:55:54,585 --> 01:55:56,325
by considerations of justice and equity.

2112
01:55:56,325 --> 01:55:59,165
So it it sounds like it's following that. Yep.

2113
01:55:59,345 --> 01:56:01,485
Now the language there is a little obtuse

2114
01:56:01,865 --> 01:56:06,285
It, it it is and I was not sure how to word this

2115
01:56:06,665 --> 01:56:09,445
and I'm, I'm almost,

2116
01:56:11,305 --> 01:56:12,525
I'm almost tempted

2117
01:56:12,525 --> 01:56:14,405
because it's, it's a, it's a power

2118
01:56:14,405 --> 01:56:17,765
that's granted in the RSA Do we have to do we have

2119
01:56:17,765 --> 01:56:20,045
to specify it in in our zoning ordinance?

2120
01:56:20,305 --> 01:56:21,305
No, Thank you.

2121
01:56:22,245 --> 01:56:23,205
I mean, otherwise the don,

2122
01:56:23,515 --> 01:56:24,685
we'd have to add everything in here.

2123
01:56:24,755 --> 01:56:27,365
Yeah. So can we, we can just not amend that section.

2124
01:56:27,685 --> 01:56:31,725
I, I'm, I I would say yeah, thank you that way that

2125
01:56:32,465 --> 01:56:34,685
if, I like that the zoning ordinance, I like that a lot.

2126
01:56:34,745 --> 01:56:37,445
The zoning board wants to interpret this good look

2127
01:56:37,545 --> 01:56:38,685
and God speed.

2128
01:56:39,215 --> 01:56:42,805
Thank you. That totally makes my night. I can't even begin

2129
01:56:42,805 --> 01:56:43,805
To see you.

2130
01:56:43,805 --> 01:56:46,405
Anything else disagree? Okay,

2131
01:56:46,915 --> 01:56:47,915
Cool.

2132
01:56:47,915 --> 01:56:48,205
Alright.

2133
01:56:49,665 --> 01:56:51,645
So is that it for things that we think we need to change

2134
01:56:52,545 --> 01:56:53,545
For now?

2135
01:56:53,545 --> 01:56:54,605
For now, for now, for now.

2136
01:56:54,605 --> 01:56:55,645
There there was the change

2137
01:56:56,205 --> 01:56:59,725
that will be coming up in effective in 2027.

2138
01:56:59,925 --> 01:57:02,245
I don't think we need to address it right at the moment

2139
01:57:02,835 --> 01:57:07,165
that talks about, we can't put a, we can't

2140
01:57:07,745 --> 01:57:11,085
put a cap on how long a dead end street will be

2141
01:57:11,625 --> 01:57:16,445
and we can't, I think it's,

2142
01:57:16,465 --> 01:57:19,125
we can't say you can only have X number

2143
01:57:19,125 --> 01:57:20,285
of houses on a street.

2144
01:57:20,425 --> 01:57:22,925
So there's, there's things like that Okay.

2145
01:57:22,925 --> 01:57:25,605
That we can, that will be addressed in the LDCR

2146
01:57:25,705 --> 01:57:26,845
and we can take care of

2147
01:57:26,845 --> 01:57:28,925
that maybe once we're done with this.

2148
01:57:30,355 --> 01:57:34,525
Okay. It's a July, July 1 27 effective date.

2149
01:57:35,075 --> 01:57:36,885
Okay. And, and some of these are already in effect,

2150
01:57:36,885 --> 01:57:37,965
so we're kind of playing catch up.

2151
01:57:38,075 --> 01:57:40,365
Much of these are, much of these are in effect.

2152
01:57:40,515 --> 01:57:43,005
Okay. Yeah. Alright.

2153
01:57:43,005 --> 01:57:46,285
Well I thank everyone for, you know,

2154
01:57:46,925 --> 01:57:48,125
pitching in and being interactive and helping.

2155
01:57:51,765 --> 01:57:53,965
I think we've got a good first review.

2156
01:57:54,185 --> 01:57:55,925
Any other closing comments?

2157
01:58:00,675 --> 01:58:02,205
Okay, so going back to our

2158
01:58:05,265 --> 01:58:06,965
agenda, do we have any board member comments?

2159
01:58:07,965 --> 01:58:12,685
I Can. I fish for a motion to adjourn. So moved.

2160
01:58:12,705 --> 01:58:16,205
Second. Moved by a second to adjourn.

2161
01:58:16,345 --> 01:58:18,445
All those and chair say aye. Aye. Aye.

2162
01:58:18,625 --> 01:58:19,685
Please stand adjourned.