[0:00] September 16th, 2026.
[0:03] We start our meetings with the Pledge of Allegiance.
[0:05] If you would rise and join me,
[0:10] I pledge allegiance to the flag
[0:13] of United States of America
[0:14] and to the Republic for one Nation under our
[0:19] indigenous justice for role.
[0:32] So we'll start with some administrivia.
[0:36] The playing board continues to allow remote participation.
[0:43] If we have remote members,
[0:45] we will do vote roll call votes for the public.
[0:48] To attend the meeting, you go to www.zoom.us.
[0:54] Enter your meeting ID
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[1:00] You may also call in by phone for audio only.
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[1:18] call our local number here in the room.
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[1:32] to unmute yourself Once you have been recognized,
[1:36] I will introduce the members
[1:37] and staff who are present this evening.
[1:39] To my far right are our alternates. Mr. Mousy. Mr. Appleton.
[1:44] Good evening. And Mr. Young.
[1:45] Good evening, our planning director, Ms. Du.
[1:47] Good evening, our planning clerk. Ms. Wilson.
[1:50] Good evening town Council liaison, Mr. Chase.
[1:52] Good evening, member Mr. Wood. Evening member. Mr. Menini.
[1:56] Good evening. To my far left is Mr.
[1:59] Viner who does all the wonderful video for us.
[2:01] We thank you for that. Good evening member, Mr. Pier.
[2:04] Good evening Secretary. Mr. Maby. Hello.
[2:07] We are missing vice chair Mr. O'Connor.
[2:11] And I would like to sit Mr. Ey, for, for John, please.
[2:16] We're also missing Mr. Fishman.
[2:20] So we can seat Mr. Appleton.
[2:23] At least for the voting portion. Mr.
[2:26] Cella was absent, but he doesn't have not have an alternate.
[2:36] First item of business is escrow.
[2:41] We have item number 26 dash 33. Steven Marquee.
[2:46] Okay. This is for the proposed car wash at
[2:49] 10 Manchester Road.
[2:51] The escrow type is a performance bond.
[2:54] The request is to establish a performance bond number
[2:57] 0 2 7 8 1 3 8 issued by Berkeley
[3:02] Insurance Company in the amount
[3:03] of $262,928 81 cents.
[3:07] For the above noted project.
[3:09] There will be no expiration date on the bond.
[3:11] So moved And moved by Al.
[3:15] Be seconded by Pier to accept the bond as presented.
[3:19] Any questions? Mr. Chase? Yes. Mr. Wood? Yes. Mr. Mni?
[3:24] Yes. Mr. Ey? Yes. Mr.
[3:28] Appleton? Yes. Mr. Pier? Yes. Mr. Malvin? Yes.
[3:31] The chair of votes? Yes. Second item on the agenda is
[3:36] item number 26 dash 34 FW Holdings.
[3:40] Okay. This was for the subdivision
[3:42] of five Mount Pleasant Street.
[3:44] The escrow type was cash, escrow
[3:46] property location was five Mount Pleasant Street.
[3:49] The request is to approve a final release
[3:51] of cash escrow in the amount of $22,885.
[3:55] For the above noted project, the amount to retain is zero.
[3:59] So moved. Moved by ee, seconded by Pelletier to
[4:04] approve the escrow as presented.
[4:07] Mr. Chase? Yes. Mr. Wood? Yes. Mr. Menini? Yes. Mr. Mousey?
[4:11] Yes. Mr. Appleton? Yes. Mr. Peltier? Yes. Mr. Malam? Yes.
[4:16] Chair votes? Yes. And we then
[4:24] move on to the minutes of September 2nd.
[4:27] Has everyone had a chance to review them?
[4:30] Are there any errors or omissions?
[4:35] Motion to approve the minutes as written.
[4:37] Second. Motion by ee, seconded by Pier
[4:40] to approve the minutes of September 2nd, 2026 as written.
[4:44] Mr. Chase? Yes. Mr. Wood. I'll abstain as I was not here.
[4:47] Mr. Menini? Yes. Mr. Mousy? Yes. Mr. Appleton? Yes.
[4:52] Mr. Peltier? Yes. Mr. Mal? Yes.
[4:55] Chair votes Yes. Correspondence.
[4:58] Mr. Chair, we have one piece
[5:00] of correspondence today from the town of Salem.
[5:03] Jacob LaFontaine. They're planning director.
[5:05] It's a notice to the abutters just letting us know
[5:07] that there's gonna be a master plan update 3.0
[5:10] for the West Village project.
[5:13] And the next date it's on the agenda is, I believe
[5:15] that's Tuesday, 9 22 7 o'clock at the Salem Town Hall
[5:20] if you'd like to hear about it.
[5:22] Thank you very much. Under other business we
[5:27] just have planning director and chairman updates.
[5:30] Okay. So very quickly,
[5:35] I wanted to let you know we did receive,
[5:39] or the building department received an application
[5:42] for the installation of 15 EV chargers at 33 Chester Road,
[5:47] which is the first student busti.
[5:51] We permit EV chargers in any parking lot that has six
[5:56] or more parking spaces.
[5:58] So we're determining that so long as the
[6:02] electrical structures that need to be, you know,
[6:06] the box they need to build to put all the
[6:08] electrical things in.
[6:10] And then the chargers themselves would just require a
[6:13] building permit rather than planning board review.
[6:16] Okay. But I did wanna let you know,
[6:18] so when people see activity there, that's what's happening.
[6:23] Southern New Hampshire Planning Commission's annual meeting
[6:25] will be next Thursday the 24th at Bevan in London Dairy
[6:31] that starts at four o'clock.
[6:32] This is their, it's the 60th year I'm looking. Yeah. Okay.
[6:37] They're celebrating their 60th year planning board members.
[6:40] You are invited. We would just need to know if you wanted
[6:44] to attend or not so that we could secure a seat for you.
[6:48] We would need to know that probably no
[6:49] later than Monday or Tuesday.
[6:51] The very latest.
[6:53] Okay. Everyone got that? Great.
[6:57] I don't have any updates. So we now have a workshop.
[7:03] I'm gonna suggest that Mr. Young sit with us.
[7:07] He will not actually be seated as a voting member.
[7:09] I don't expect we'll actually take any votes.
[7:12] But if we do, we'll just skip over you.
[7:17] My proposal is that we actually do an old fashioned workshop
[7:21] where everyone contributes rather than just
[7:24] reviewing a draft and, and nodding.
[7:28] You have several reference items.
[7:34] Some from staff,
[7:35] some from the New Hampshire Municipal Association.
[7:38] We should look at each section of law.
[7:41] And you know, the NHMA legal staff has said,
[7:46] well, what must you do?
[7:48] What can you do and what you must not do?
[7:51] So I think it's important to review all of those pieces
[7:56] of guidance and then figure out what it is we propose to do.
[8:00] Does that work for everyone? Absolutely. Sweet.
[8:04] I'm just nodding that.
[8:07] Well, you know, I, I am capable of doing Anyone, anyone?
[8:10] Ler. Ler. Yeah. So, okay.
[8:14] Do you want to lead us through this?
[8:17] I noticed that we've got a markup. Yes. A couple.
[8:21] I have a couple of different markups. Okay.
[8:24] And at least mm, the ones I have begin with definitions.
[8:29] Yes. So do you want you, do you want me
[8:32] to skip the staff report?
[8:33] 'cause you've, you have all seen it in read it or do you
[8:36] Yeah, no, let's just, just get right
[8:37] into it and you can kind of Okay.
[8:38] Alright. Bring up the selling points as we get there. Okay.
[8:41] So attached to the staff report, you did have a draft.
[8:45] You all have a more red draft, which is the,
[8:50] the words are exactly the same.
[8:52] The more red draft is the one you wanna look at
[8:55] because it actually shows the changes that we had.
[8:58] We were suggesting. So starting with definitions,
[9:04] state law has changed with regard to
[9:06] how we look at accessory dwelling units.
[9:09] So we are suggesting it no longer has to be,
[9:14] they, they changed the definition of how it is
[9:16] or attached within the principal dwelling unit.
[9:19] And you can also have a detached.
[9:21] So we've adjusted the definition of accessory dwelling unit
[9:24] to capture those changes.
[9:28] We have also added, there's changes to the childcare laws.
[9:33] So we have added a definition of childcare center.
[9:37] And that is a, to clarify, that is a group
[9:43] childcare agency.
[9:47] It is not one that is in the, like
[9:49] that someone would have in their home with up
[9:52] to six kids or so.
[9:56] So what we also did was we updated our daycare definition,
[10:01] our current, it had previously referred you
[10:05] to the group daycare.
[10:08] We want to make sure that we capture that childcare centers
[10:11] as defined would also under group daycare
[10:16] include our adult daycare.
[10:18] 'cause that was something we had talked about
[10:20] having available previously.
[10:23] So we made those changes. So,
[10:25] Yep.
[10:26] I I think I'm gonna invite everyone to just jump in please.
[10:29] When you see something, rather than having group daycare,
[10:34] which includes childcare and adult daycare
[10:37] and then a separate childcare since we have a separate
[10:40] childcare, why don't we simply have a separate adult daycare
[10:44] and that way one's not kind
[10:46] of buried and nested in the other.
[10:50] That may mean that more words have to change. Okay.
[10:55] But I don't know whether one thinks nested definitions kind
[11:00] of are a little more confusing than
[11:02] standalone definitions, I thought.
[11:04] But I, I agree. Anyone feel the same way?
[11:09] Yeah, I I think it's, it's kind of unnecessary
[11:11] to have the group daycare that includes child and adult
[11:15] and then also have a single child definition rather than
[11:18] just having one child definition of one adult definition.
[11:21] Okay. Yeah. So let's, let's decide that,
[11:24] we'll, we'll do that.
[11:26] And, and we've had the adult daycare for a while, right?
[11:35] Or is that new?
[11:38] Lemme see. Well, we,
[11:42] we can get that answer, you know.
[11:43] Yeah. In a follow up look. Yeah.
[11:45] It sort of doesn't matter for the definitions. Yeah.
[11:48] I don't think, I'm not sure if we define,
[11:50] we may have defined at adult day care.
[11:51] Okay. Yeah. If we don't have a
[11:53] definition, we can create one.
[11:55] So we're gonna keep child care center
[12:01] and remove just daycare. 'cause it says see child,
[12:03] Well, a child care center and adult care center
[12:06] And Oh.
[12:07] Kinda make them symmetrical sounding
[12:14] and the, the definition
[12:16] and language can kind of mirror each other, I guess,
[12:18] other than child versus adult.
[12:20] Okay. And then group
[12:25] daycare care stays the same.
[12:27] I would or remove it. I would get rid of it.
[12:29] You have two kinds, child and and adult
[12:32] and I don't think there's a third kind.
[12:34] Right.
[12:35] Yeah. Family.
[12:38] Yeah, there's child, there's the child daycare centers,
[12:41] which are like the one on Shanita Road
[12:45] and then there's the family child centers,
[12:48] which are the more home occupation type.
[12:51] Alright. So group daycare as written does not
[12:54] have the word family in it. So
[12:57] Because family is, family is under a different,
[13:00] it's under a different set of laws under the state as, so
[13:05] they're, they've put, let me grab the,
[13:32] sorry.
[13:33] I am looking for the guidance from
[13:34] New Hampshire MA on that one.
[13:41] I didn't print that one out. They changed,
[13:44] they changed a whole bunch of state law definitions
[13:48] with regard to, they wanted to clarify what is,
[13:52] what do we consider family childcare so that those are the,
[13:58] you know, people who bring kids into their homes up
[14:01] to X number of STU students.
[14:03] I wanna say it used to be like six,
[14:05] but I think it may have gone up a little bit up to like 16.
[14:09] I think. Don't quote me on that.
[14:12] So that people had the ability to manage
[14:16] that in their homes, you know, kids on
[14:18] and off the bus, that type of thing.
[14:20] As opposed to the actual centers themselves
[14:23] where you would go and drop your kids off for the whole day.
[14:28] So is that a, a home occupation
[14:31] For the family childcare that's more of a home occupation?
[14:35] And is it something that the planning board reviews
[14:37] and has jurisdiction
[14:38] Over?
[14:39] We do, we do not, we don't review home occupations.
[14:42] The ZBA would.
[14:43] Okay. So that the, the definition is obviously shared
[14:48] between the planning board and the zoning board with regard
[14:50] to the zoning ordinance.
[14:51] So. Okay. Okay. Makes sense. Okay. Okay.
[14:56] Then there'll be a third one.
[15:07] And while you're taking that note,
[15:08] let me just go on Innovative housing structure,
[15:13] a unique single residential unit such as a tiny house,
[15:18] tiny house on wheels or a yurt.
[15:21] Does that come directly out of the statute?
[15:24] It it does, it does.
[15:29] Because innovative housing structure sounds a little,
[15:32] I don't know, meta
[15:37] Yeah.
[15:38] Meta description is opposed
[15:38] to an actual definition, but, okay.
[15:40] Yeah. So if it's in the statute, we better have it.
[15:42] It is in the statute. Let me just see if I,
[15:45] I'll pull out the actual words for you.
[15:51] Does the innovative housing structure
[15:54] exclusively include the tiny house,
[15:56] tiny house on wheels in yurt?
[15:58] Yes. So if you want to look at, I think it's HB 1681
[16:04] in your packet somewhere, you're gonna have to
[16:07] flip through and find that
[16:10] It's in that thick, It's in
[16:12] the, yeah, it's in the loss.
[16:14] Would it, would it be worth it then to in,
[16:17] in rather than saying such as a tiny house, just be like,
[16:21] No, they're, they're, That's
[16:22] the specific wording that they want.
[16:24] It's innovative.
[16:26] So chapter three 30, HB 1681,
[16:31] subsection two, innovative housing structure
[16:34] or IHS means a unique single residential unit
[16:38] such as tiny house Tiny.
[16:39] We took it right from the state definition.
[16:44] It's only those three. So innovative housing structure is
[16:46] those three at this time.
[16:48] Yeah. What what I kind of meant by that was it says
[16:52] a unique single residential unit such as a tiny house,
[16:55] tiny house on wheels or your, which kind of implies
[16:57] that there is more than those three things.
[16:59] Okay. And it's just giving examples.
[17:02] So does, I still can't follow the, the, the numbering.
[17:05] And there's no page numbers here. I
[17:08] Know. So
[17:09] Which, which HB is it in 1681? Eight numbers are at
[17:13] The top 16 Towards the back
[17:18] Six pages from the back.
[17:20] So 16 81, 81. Yep.
[17:22] All
[17:28] nor shall it include an innovative housing structure
[17:31] pursuant to 6 74 81.
[17:39] So 6 74 81 is where
[17:52] it's probably in this book.
[17:54] 6 74 81.
[18:00] It's not this right here. Is it 6 74
[18:03] 0.810, Okay.
[18:07] Is it? Yeah,
[18:09] Number four.
[18:10] So yeah, they're amending, they're amending 6 74
[18:14] and they're adding a new section in the RSA.
[18:17] So it's not in the blue book yet.
[18:24] Oh, I just didn't see that. This was 6 74 81. Okay.
[18:27] Innovative housing structure shall be treated.
[18:33] Yes. But that doesn't define them.
[18:36] The, the section that uses the language
[18:38] that we're looking at is line seven of this
[18:43] 1681 bill.
[18:48] Okay. Line seven.
[18:50] It's section Roman two
[18:55] innovating housing structure
[18:57] or IHS means a single unique single residential unit such
[19:00] as a tiny house, tiny house on wheels
[19:02] that were a yurt. Alright,
[19:03] So it's done on, It's the, so this is,
[19:07] this is the exact language from
[19:08] the bill is what we're pulling, which
[19:09] It's chapter three 30, HB
[19:13] 1681, page two.
[19:16] Index number what? Seven?
[19:19] It's line seven. Yes.
[19:20] Line seven
[19:25] mm Let's
[19:26] Stop.
[19:27] That's Exactly this innovative housing,
[19:32] This Red.
[19:33] Alright, so is exactly that.
[19:34] This is not the same page that I'm on
[19:39] Because That's
[19:42] What he's referring.
[19:44] Okay. Let's be, yeah, let's be innovative
[19:47] Housing.
[19:48] Yep. Right here. Line seven.
[19:51] I wish they put unique line numbers on all the pages.
[19:54] But anyway, so innovative housing structure
[19:59] or IHS means a single unique residential unit such
[20:03] as a tiny house, tiny house on wheels or a yurt.
[20:08] I suppose my complaint is more about the wording
[20:10] of the original bill then.
[20:12] 'cause this just seems to imply
[20:13] that there are more things than those three.
[20:15] Yeah, well they're just giving examples.
[20:17] Whereas there is not more than those three things.
[20:18] Those are the only three that are added.
[20:21] So we can always ponder
[20:23] what legislative services meant when they drafted it.
[20:28] Typically, when they say such as, or such as,
[20:33] but not limited to,
[20:34] it really means there could be other things.
[20:38] How do those other things get to come into play?
[20:42] Probably through a court proceeding would be my guess.
[20:45] So it's mainly more just them predicting
[20:47] that there will be additional items.
[20:49] But if it says such as in the statute, we probably need
[20:52] to follow that and include it.
[20:54] Even though we don't necessarily mean
[20:57] know exactly what they meant.
[20:58] Fair enough. Yeah.
[21:02] And the reason I couldn't find it in, in the
[21:04] statute book is it's a new, a new section.
[21:09] Okay. So that kind of explains where that came from.
[21:15] Given that we've copied it directly outta the statute.
[21:17] I assume there's no objection to any of that,
[21:22] even if there's potential confusion.
[21:26] I mean, my confusion is how, how,
[21:27] how do you grant a building permit for a yurt?
[21:34] I thought a yurt was just kind of a, a tent with,
[21:36] You know, it's like MRI tenting,
[21:38] I, you know, it's like A light wood structure
[21:40] with like Yeah.
[21:42] So hide Or flesh.
[21:44] I predict litigation on this one.
[21:45] But anyway, tiny house,
[21:50] does that come from the same?
[21:52] It does. Okay.
[21:54] That's on line 17 of
[21:55] that same on numbered page.
[21:59] The fir the first page of chapter three 30
[22:06] means a detached building used
[22:08] or intended to be used for human habitation providing
[22:12] permanent provisions for living, sleeping, eating, cooking.
[22:20] I'm, I'm, as, I'm curious as to why,
[22:25] if the statute goes on at some length,
[22:30] why we didn't just copy it verbatim.
[22:33] We can be, as I'm reading ahead to the proposed,
[22:37] like the next page for innovative, we have a conflict
[22:41] because it says tiny houses can be 600 square feet or less.
[22:45] And then
[22:49] they must have changed that.
[22:51] 'cause I have like four, I had written 400.
[22:53] That might have been a typo.
[22:55] So we could do, I think
[23:06] yeah, we can, we can add that.
[23:08] I think putting dimensions in a definition can be
[23:12] problematic because if someone wants something larger,
[23:16] then they're asking for a variance from the definition.
[23:25] Well, yeah. I, at least to me though,
[23:29] this definition would seem to apply to any house
[23:32] because there's no specification
[23:34] that it needs to be of any size.
[23:36] Or why is it a tiny,
[23:38] any house built in dairy currently would be a living space
[23:40] permanently constructed on a stable surface designed
[23:43] for using his permanent living corners.
[23:45] That would, that would be every house endeavor.
[23:47] Well that's a very good And maybe the,
[23:49] the 600 feet square feet is the actual
[23:52] unique definition of tiny.
[23:54] Okay. So we can I can add those three items into the,
[23:59] into the definition then. Yeah.
[24:00] My, my feeling is that I know you want
[24:03] to make it sound simpler than it is.
[24:08] Maybe not a good idea.
[24:09] When the statute has potentially convoluted wording
[24:14] and, and we are asking our boards
[24:16] to work off a simplified version, that means at some level,
[24:20] even though it might be not
[24:24] meaningful in most cases, there's a disconnect.
[24:29] I would lean toward just cloning
[24:32] the statutory definition.
[24:35] And, and when they, they have it in, in a section
[24:39] 6 74, 81 definitions.
[24:41] Okay. So they're defining it. Okay.
[24:43] We'll edit In. I I would, I would not try
[24:46] to improve on the works of the general court.
[24:48] 'cause that's one of the ways you get yourself into trouble.
[24:51] Okay.
[24:54] I think the sanitation is important to include that too.
[25:01] See that at the end of 18,
[25:07] I mean if you want to,
[25:12] if you want to have a short definition in the zoning,
[25:15] you could have a short definition
[25:17] and then add at the end as further specified
[25:21] in RSA 6 74 81, you know,
[25:25] Roman four.
[25:28] That way someone can't just say, oh this is all there is.
[25:31] No, I have to go read the law. If you wanna save some,
[25:35] some characters do a reference.
[25:37] But I wouldn't just leave it
[25:38] Dangling.
[25:39] Yeah, no, especially where these are starting
[25:41] to become more popular.
[25:42] It's probably better to put the whole definition in there so
[25:45] that it's clear for the general public.
[25:49] 'cause it would be asking a lot for the,
[25:50] they'd be like, well I don't know where to find that law.
[25:52] Ask you a lot for the public to know how
[25:54] to use Google. Well,
[25:55] Well they could, I don't know.
[25:57] Sometimes Google doesn't, can be asking a lot.
[25:59] Give you the, give you the right answer.
[26:00] Okay. I I stand direct it. I'm sorry. Yeah.
[26:05] I think the safest thing
[26:06] to do is just clone the whole thing.
[26:08] Alright, we'll do that. And I think that would go for
[26:11] all of these definitions.
[26:15] For example, you yurt says a round freestanding structure,
[26:19] but the statute says a style of tiny house that is round
[26:24] or similar shape.
[26:28] So they don't really say the same thing.
[26:30] 'cause the similar shape could mean, you know, oval octagon
[26:34] or octagonal or ellipsoidal.
[26:37] I mean, so I think we wanna be careful Okay.
[26:40] That if the state is issuing a definition,
[26:44] we'd literally clone it.
[26:45] Okay. 'cause I think that, I don't wanna speak
[26:50] for the planning board, I don't wanna speak for the ZBA,
[26:52] but if someone is, is going solely by this
[26:54] and isn't aware what the definition says,
[26:57] and then the, the lawyer who's representing the applicant's,
[26:59] ah, but that's not what the state law says.
[27:02] That just gets us looking bad, so. Got it. Right. Yeah.
[27:06] Yep. Okay. Okay.
[27:09] And as she said too, these yurts
[27:11] and tiny houses are starting to become, starting
[27:14] to see them, they're starting to become
[27:15] Hard.
[27:16] Well, yeah, I mean tiny houses certainly.
[27:17] I I, again, I don't, I don't know how you put heating
[27:19] and plumbing in a yurt
[27:21] or maybe someone who is, is in, you know,
[27:24] construction trades can enlighten me.
[27:25] 'cause maybe I, maybe I'm,
[27:26] I'm thinking too simple there, but
[27:30] I think a yurts just basically a round
[27:32] tiny house at this point. Yeah,
[27:34] Yeah.
[27:35] Neither of these definitions specify, unlike the tiny house
[27:39] that this needs to be on a,
[27:41] a permanent foundation or anything.
[27:43] So that, so what we can just like drive stakes in your yard
[27:46] and call it a yurt.
[27:48] That's, that's an interesting addition.
[27:50] Well, yes, it's is a freestanding structure modeled
[27:54] after traditional nomadic dwellings, which to me means,
[27:59] you know, you can pick it up
[28:00] and put it on your pack horse and move it.
[28:02] Yeah. The only thing I can think of is
[28:04] that including the engineering for use as a permanent
[28:07] or long-term residence might imply that there needs
[28:09] to be some kind
[28:10] of concrete foundation or something. So I, I
[28:12] Think we, we do need to be a little bit careful about
[28:14] whether or not we think that we have statutory authority
[28:19] to require that the tiny houses
[28:21] and the, especially the yurts have self-contained
[28:24] sanitary facilities
[28:27] That would be under the building code.
[28:33] Oh, that's always interesting when land use
[28:37] and the building code collide.
[28:39] Although I usually wanna walk away from that, but Yeah.
[28:42] Although I, I did just notice that it, it seems the way
[28:45] that this is written is that
[28:47] tiny house is an overarching category
[28:49] and tiny house on wheels and u are within that category.
[28:53] So the, the well,
[28:54] because it says a style of tiny house for both of them
[28:58] implying that maybe they are also under the same constraints
[29:02] or requirements of the
[29:04] Previous tiny house.
[29:05] That's, that's true. Although the, at the roman numeral
[29:08] top level section number under colon 81 tiny house is four
[29:14] and your is six.
[29:15] So they, they appear to be on the same hierarchy level
[29:20] of the, of the law.
[29:21] So that's confusing.
[29:26] I would recommend just copy everything will do straight out
[29:28] of the state law and then if anyone is confused, say,
[29:32] oh, go ask a lawyer,
[29:35] We can do that.
[29:36] Okay.
[29:37] I'll talk to your representative.
[29:39] Okay. So we can, we can then move on to the next page.
[29:44] So this, one of the changes was that they wanted to
[29:49] protect Existing single family structures
[29:54] in their existing setbacks.
[29:56] So, so that,
[29:59] I think municipalities couldn't come in afterwards
[30:01] and say, well, we're only gonna apply it
[30:05] to new single family dwellings
[30:06] or dwellings that, you know,
[30:08] meet the applicable setbacks now.
[30:11] So they have said that if you have a lot
[30:14] that has a single family detached dwelling
[30:16] that is in existence as of July 1st, 2025,
[30:21] you can have an A DU.
[30:23] The A DU of course would have to meet setbacks,
[30:25] but we wouldn't as, we wouldn't have to make
[30:30] them go for variances like setback variance in things.
[30:35] Especially if they were doing it internally
[30:39] because they're adding that internally.
[30:41] They don't want you to have to jump through a lot of hoops
[30:44] to have to get that permitted.
[30:46] So they're taking away some of the roadblocks.
[30:49] So it's just, and,
[30:50] And when we are, are looking at this section, this applies
[30:53] to both attached and detached.
[30:57] Yes. Because it doesn't say one way or the other. Correct.
[30:59] Okay. Yeah.
[31:05] And then so we add, so at the top, we just under,
[31:08] you know, the, the the top piece we say,
[31:10] so if you're existing as of July 1st, 2025, that's okay.
[31:14] And then we add on language that says if you don't comply
[31:19] with current dimensional, we are,
[31:21] we can issue the permit if,
[31:24] and then I believe that language follows the
[31:26] RSAI Can double check that.
[31:44] 6, 7, 4 6. So
[31:51] 6, 7, 4.
[31:53] I'm reading what our proposed zoning ordinance is
[31:56] as the creation and an accessory dwelling unit on a lot
[32:01] containing a single family detached, dwelling
[32:06] existing as of the enact mandate shall be subject
[32:09] to all the following conditions.
[32:15] What the NHMA summary says
[32:20] that additionally any legal preexisting structures built
[32:25] before the enactment date that violate the current
[32:29] and existing zoning ordinances for setbacks and
[32:33] or lot coverage shall be permitted to be converted
[32:36] to an A DU by Right.
[32:37] That's not the same concept.
[32:40] Is that what we were looking at when we wrote this?
[32:43] Lemme see 6 74.
[32:52] So it's, I
[32:58] We should probably add language.
[33:00] So if you have a new one.
[33:04] So any legal structure that's being converted is vested
[33:12] and if they're preexisting non-conforming with regard to
[33:15] setbacks or lock coverage, they retain the Right,
[33:19] they're grandfathered.
[33:20] That's what, that's what the law says.
[33:29] So
[33:29] Yeah, I'm, I'm just, We may need to lay add language
[33:32] with regard to conversions to cover that vesting.
[33:37] Yeah. This document from
[33:43] NHMA seems to talk about
[33:48] conversions and it seems like the language of our
[33:53] zoning order in section 1 6 5 25 is about the requirements
[33:59] for creating them prior to
[34:03] the current chapter law.
[34:08] And it talks about all these other things
[34:10] that just aren't mentioned here.
[34:13] So I'm wondering if it does need to be a,
[34:18] a whole separate section on,
[34:22] on conversion and, and grandfathering
[34:26] Because Yeah, I think we need to,
[34:28] I do think we need to add that.
[34:32] Just looking to see,
[34:41] So this is HB 10 79.
[34:45] I guess we should find that right?
[34:49] Anybody have any idea where that is in this package?
[34:57] Okay, I found 10 79.
[35:07] It's right in the middle.
[35:10] Yeah, but are there any,
[35:14] so there is a a 25 dash 2 5 9 4?
[35:18] I don't know. I don't know if
[35:19] that's No, that's not a page number.
[35:20] I don't know. It looks like this
[35:23] guys, oh.
[35:28] Although they are in numer, the,
[35:30] the bills are in numerical order.
[35:31] So, so it says the bill
[35:36] expands the definition of accessory dwelling in this
[35:38] to allow them to be built within non-conforming structures.
[35:51] So this seems to talk about existing structures. Gotcha.
[36:00] If the existing structure does not comply
[36:01] with the dimensional requirements for setbacks
[36:04] or lock cup coverage
[36:05] of municipality may determine eligibility for placement
[36:10] of an accessory dwelling within an existing structure
[36:13] by requiring applicant for the building
[36:15] to demonstrate either it qualifies
[36:19] as preexisting or the existing structure
[36:23] received prior zoning approval.
[36:24] So if I read 10 79, it doesn't to me
[36:30] read in anything like section 1 65 25.
[36:42] What we do say
[36:49] we do say that
[36:52] I, They can
[36:57] be converted from existing structures in existence as
[37:00] of July 1 25, including detached garages, regardless
[37:06] of whether they violate current dimensional
[37:08] for setbacks or lock coverage. And where
[37:10] Does it say that? Which,
[37:11] So on in our text on page two,
[37:15] section 1 65 25 A.
[37:26] Okay. So the overall
[37:32] section says, shall be subject to all
[37:34] of the following conditions.
[37:36] And the first itemized condition says Oh, except
[37:39] for, okay.
[37:43] So yeah,
[37:44] It's a little confusing.
[37:46] So it soon, if, if a is triggered, does
[37:49] that mean you ignore the rest of them?
[37:51] Maybe we should.
[37:55] I'm thinking ought be a separate section just
[37:58] because the, the if and else of of Yeah.
[38:02] Well if, if it hits a, then you skip the rest of the,
[38:06] the section is a bit confusing.
[38:09] I mean it's, it's, it's more like code than,
[38:11] than regulations.
[38:12] What if we, what if we started with a
[38:15] and said accessory dwelling units
[38:17] may be converted from existing structures existing as
[38:20] of included, but not limiting to detached garages
[38:23] and complete that section
[38:25] and then make new structures shall meet the appropriate.
[38:30] I I'm, I'm gonna suggest you, you, you leave
[38:32] 1 65 25 the way it is
[38:34] and create a 1 65 21 25 0.1 for
[38:40] conversion of accessory dwelling units.
[38:43] 25. Okay.
[38:44] And then we can make innovative housing structures 25.2.
[38:48] Okay.
[38:50] Okay. Or whatever the numbering works.
[38:52] All, all I'm saying is maybe leave what we have alone
[38:54] and then add a new section that basically describes
[38:58] what happens in 1 65 25 A in a,
[39:02] in a standalone section so that Okay.
[39:05] It literally can say if it's not a conversion,
[39:10] it shall be subject to all of these conditions.
[39:17] And then I think it'll be clearer to folks which set
[39:21] of conditions they should be reading.
[39:23] Okay.
[39:40] Okay. We can do that. And what is the,
[39:43] so on the other page there's a whole new MA and B.
[39:50] Oh, so maybe that m goes in the,
[39:55] the new.one?
[39:57] Yep. Okay.
[40:03] Okay. Yeah, I think
[40:07] that's cleaner. Okay.
[40:08] We can do that.
[40:14] Just one quick note on that.
[40:17] M reading through HSB
[40:22] 10 79, it looks like everything is, you know,
[40:25] at shall receive,
[40:26] we're essentially grandfathering all these existing dwellings.
[40:30] Right? So I'm thinking m should that be,
[40:33] if an existing structure does not comply
[40:35] with current dimensional requirements for setbacks
[40:37] and lock coverage, a building permit shall be issued.
[40:44] Well there it would be a shall there might be other
[40:46] reasons why a building permit wouldn't be issued.
[40:53] So here's just a, a medic question.
[40:58] Building permits are really under the, the police powers
[41:02] of the governing and legislative body, the council.
[41:05] Right. They're not controlled by the ZBA
[41:07] and they're not controlled by the planning board
[41:10] other than I guess the ZBA is an appellate agency.
[41:13] They are. Right. So
[41:18] let me ask a silly question.
[41:19] Why is the zoning ordinance talking about
[41:22] issuing building permits at all?
[41:27] Lemme see.
[41:37] Good question. I'm my, I'm, I'm thinking about this
[41:40] because up until recently,
[41:44] The, The, the law allowed up until recently,
[41:49] some of the powers of the building official was
[41:52] captured under 6 74.
[41:53] Six 70. Like the six seventies.
[41:56] So there it was in the land use regulations,
[41:58] which is why we, we have some building permit things
[42:01] in the zoning ordinance.
[42:02] Okay. The recent law change under 2 44
[42:06] just removed all of that and moved everything to 1 55.
[42:10] Ah, okay. So we haven't caught up with that part
[42:13] Either.
[42:14] No, we're still catching up.
[42:14] So we are, we're used to being able to say,
[42:17] well we can issue a building permit if you meet X, Y, and Z.
[42:20] But now everything is defaulting to 1 55
[42:23] and it's removed from the six seventies. And I presume
[42:26] That exists in some other complete chapter
[42:28] With the town code.
[42:29] It does whole, yeah. That 20, the 28 pages at the beginning
[42:32] of your packet is that removal.
[42:35] Yeah. Now I know that there are times
[42:38] Mr. Chase will remember that sometimes we talk about,
[42:42] you know, NFPA and fire code as it interacts with land use
[42:45] if it becomes one of those overlapping jurisdiction things.
[42:51] But I had typically tried to not specify in, in zoning
[42:56] anything that isn't deriving its power from the land
[42:59] use authority of statute.
[43:01] So otherwise it can get like, well who gets
[43:04] to have the final say? Yeah.
[43:06] Yep. So I'll look at, I'll look at that wording
[43:10] with regard to building permit may be issued
[43:12] and that whole new section will really more mimic
[43:15] what the law says and then we can go from there.
[43:18] Yeah. I think Mr. Melby is right.
[43:19] I think the law intends like Yeah, if if existing structure
[43:23] and they wanna make it a a amen to you,
[43:26] you gotta let 'em period.
[43:28] So do we, alright, do we want it to say shall
[43:33] Well, I guess the question is if we don't talk about
[43:36] building permits, we don't have to worry about
[43:37] the the verb do we?
[43:39] Okay. But my understanding is
[43:44] that,
[43:58] so it it says if an existing structure does not comply
[44:01] with current dimensional requirements for setbacks
[44:04] and lot coverage, a municipality may determine eligibility
[44:08] for placement of an accessory dwelling
[44:12] unit within an existing structure by requiring the applicant
[44:16] or building permit or for the building permit
[44:18] to demonstrate either one or two.
[44:21] Okay.
[44:29] So I think that's what you've done with,
[44:31] with A and B, right?
[44:33] Yeah. We'll we'll put that in the,
[44:35] So maybe just say,
[44:37] if the existing structure does not comply
[44:39] with current dimensional requirements or setbacks
[44:41] and coverage, the applicant shall demonstrate either a
[44:47] b that kind of mirrors the state law.
[44:55] Anyone have any other ideas on that?
[44:58] That makes sense.
[45:03] Okay. Okay. Okay.
[45:07] And then innovative housing structures,
[45:12] which is the ordinance that deals with the new definition.
[45:16] Innovative housing structures are tiny houses,
[45:19] tiny houses on wheels and yurts.
[45:23] The purpose of innovative housing structures,
[45:27] That's great English. Okay.
[45:28] Is Our to bring,
[45:30] I think it is.
[45:31] I I think it's single 'cause the purpose is
[45:34] Oh, Yep.
[45:35] To bring more housing opportunities into dairy.
[45:38] These shall be subject to the same in inspections
[45:42] as any single family dwelling under construction provided.
[45:50] Alright. So which chapter do we find
[45:56] the regulation for?
[45:59] Tiny houses.
[46:01] So this seems to be covering
[46:02] what was changed in the definition.
[46:04] 1681. 1681. So let's find 1681 that's
[46:08] Towards the back.
[46:09] It's like six pages from the
[46:11] Back.
[46:12] Alright. 1681. Okay. Found it.
[46:16] So the bulk of it starts with
[46:22] that 3 31 new,
[46:26] new new section innovative housing.
[46:31] And then it's under 6 74 81 definitions.
[46:34] We've talked about the definitions
[46:36] and then I think we were moving on to 6 74 82.
[46:40] Location and use, which should be tracking
[46:46] what's in 1 65 25 dot something.
[46:54] Well, Do we wanna say innovative housing structures are
[46:57] tiny houses, tiny houses on wheels and yurts?
[47:00] Or should we say they,
[47:02] or should we say unique single
[47:06] residential units such as a tiny house,
[47:08] tiny house on wheel or a yurt?
[47:10] It, it seems like the state law definition
[47:14] could include other types.
[47:16] I, you know, I'm gonna, I'm going to
[47:20] give you two separate conflicting opinions on this.
[47:24] We Could remove the number one,
[47:27] if you have a definition, it's always better
[47:29] to refer back to the definition.
[47:31] That way you only have to change it one place.
[47:32] You don't have to find all the places
[47:34] that say the same thing.
[47:37] The contrary opinion is that, well
[47:39] that makes people flip back and forth in the book
[47:41] and they have to go find the definition
[47:42] and then they find that inconvenient so
[47:44] that there's pros and cons. Right.
[47:47] So maybe we just remove that first sentence
[47:49] because we've already defined it.
[47:51] That would be one solution. Yeah.
[47:53] What do people think on that?
[47:55] Yeah, I think that makes sense.
[47:56] Seems okay.
[48:06] Alright.
[48:07] Do we have something that's tracking 6 74 83? No,
[48:13] 6 7 4 83.
[48:23] Seeing, does that really apply?
[48:25] That's Not really, I, I'm, I'm, there's really not much
[48:28] to 6 74 82.
[48:33] There's just Roman one, Roman two and it doesn't say much.
[48:38] Yeah. And,
[48:39] And we've got a lot of stuff.
[48:40] So where do we get that?
[48:45] 6 7, 4 8 2
[48:52] Oh right here. Gotcha.
[48:53] So we talk about, so setbacks, they would have
[48:56] to meet the setbacks.
[48:58] And I think that's in the,
[49:02] Is that in another section of the statute?
[49:05] No, but any, I think any
[49:08] new location and
[49:12] Use, well, so it, it is just hand wavy.
[49:15] Right. So I'll, I'll, I'll read these 'cause they're short.
[49:20] It's subject To anything is allowed to be used
[49:22] as an accessory dwelling unit pursuant to 6 74 72.
[49:26] Subject to all applicable, applicable land use requirements.
[49:30] So you have to Meet subject, what
[49:32] what do we think is applicable in this sense.
[49:34] So that, that to me, I interpreted that to mean
[49:38] when you're talking about a structure, you're talking about
[49:41] what is its location on the lot.
[49:43] So it needs to meet the setbacks.
[49:46] Alright, so you're expanding all applicable land use
[49:49] requirements to, to this list of things that,
[49:52] that we would require traditionally?
[49:54] Yes. Okay. And then the second paragraph says,
[50:00] shall meet all applicable regulations
[50:03] regarding drinking water supply
[50:05] and wastewater treatment and disposal.
[50:09] And that is, we pulled that from,
[50:13] if you look at line 36 on page two
[50:17] of HB 6 81 Oh
[50:21] that's adopting rules regarding that.
[50:23] So,
[50:26] So, you know, scanning down one,
[50:29] the innovative housing structures subject
[50:32] to the same inspections,
[50:36] providing the structure shall meet building setbacks
[50:38] of the zone, adequate provisions
[50:41] for sewer discharge and disposal.
[50:43] Yes. One additional off street parking
[50:48] provided for the innovative housing structure.
[50:49] Now is that Yes. Is that under the all applicable land use?
[50:55] I think we took a lot of this from the A DU section.
[51:02] Okay. They need, you need
[51:04] to have at least one parking spot.
[51:06] I mean, we, we don't have public transportation.
[51:08] The, the general court has said you could
[51:10] build stuff without parking.
[51:12] So I wouldn't put it past them.
[51:14] They haven't, they haven't done it yet though. So Well
[51:19] Total living space shall not exceed
[51:23] And that should likely be 600.
[51:25] That's gonna be 600. 600. Yep. According
[51:27] To line 19.
[51:28] Yep.
[51:30] 19 says 600
[51:31] Square feet on us.
[51:32] Yep, yep, yep. Shall be composed
[51:37] of a kitchen, living room, bathroom and bedroom.
[51:40] That, That was again from the A DU.
[51:43] Yes.
[51:49] Room sizes and innovative hunting structure must conform
[51:52] to the minimum requirements
[51:54] of the India International Res Residential code.
[51:56] Well, unless it ex, you know, exceeds 600 square feet.
[52:02] I think they, This is where I, you know,
[52:07] that we may be introducing an inherent turf war conflict
[52:11] between different authorities.
[52:13] The International Residential Code is not under
[52:15] the control of the General Court.
[52:17] General Court has said that these things are 600 and under.
[52:21] And if International Residential Code requires a total
[52:24] for all those rooms of more than that,
[52:26] then we've got a, a court
[52:28] Case we can take that out.
[52:29] And then that would be when they apply
[52:31] for the building permit, it would be under that, the purview
[52:35] of the building official to ensure that room size is met.
[52:39] Code
[52:42] Structure is not a trailer, semi trailer camp trailer
[52:45] or recreational vehicle.
[52:47] I think that kind of meets the definition of,
[52:53] although did we sort out what the difference between a,
[53:01] a mobile home and a tiny House on Wheels is,
[53:06] Wasn't that a point of discussion a few weeks
[53:08] Ago?
[53:09] It was. And have we resolved it? I don't,
[53:11] I think we tabled that.
[53:14] I'm guessing it's just space.
[53:17] So I I I kind of know that the code enforcement folks want
[53:23] I item G because that's, that's been a problem.
[53:27] My only concern is that the new statute, including
[53:32] a tiny House on Wheels
[53:36] without much further discussion, it it
[53:38] Does say built on a trailer chassis in
[53:41] that definition too.
[53:43] Yep. Yeah. I'm wondering if,
[53:44] if G is at least partially obsoleted by this new statute.
[53:49] Well, it, the statute itself says it,
[53:53] nor shall it include any recreational vehicle
[53:56] or park trailer as defined in the
[54:00] American Standard Institute for Recreational Vehicle
[54:03] or NC a 19 standard for park trillion
[54:08] Trailers.
[54:09] Okay. So that means that a, somebody help me
[54:12] on, on the lingo here.
[54:13] There's a, there's a mobile home
[54:16] and then there's a pre-manufactured home.
[54:18] There's Yes. So there's yeah.
[54:21] Mr. Chase, you help. So
[54:22] The difference, the difference between a modular
[54:25] and a mobile home is a modular home is constructed
[54:29] set on a frame towed to the building site,
[54:32] lifted off the frame and set on a foundation.
[54:35] A mobile home is constructed on a frame
[54:38] that is permanent to that structure.
[54:40] You cannot remove the frame from the structure.
[54:42] So it's towed to the site.
[54:43] Either set on a concrete slab on concrete blocks,
[54:47] or it can be put on a foundation
[54:49] and the axles and tunnel removes.
[54:51] So That's the difference between the two.
[54:53] Then other than that, they're identical. So
[54:55] A mobile home, according to
[54:56] that definition, is not a trailer?
[54:59] No. No. Okay.
[55:01] I think this is where we just have
[55:02] to be careful about words about art.
[55:04] I think we're probably okay then.
[55:06] 'cause I think that tiny home probably means a,
[55:10] a mobile home among other things.
[55:13] A mobile home would likely be larger than 600 square feet.
[55:16] Yeah. I'd also, not to circle back
[55:19] to the same thing we were talking about earlier,
[55:20] but it really does seem like the tiny house on Wheels five
[55:25] and Yurt six are definitionally referential
[55:29] to four tiny house.
[55:31] So the implication is that the reason why it can't be
[55:35] a mobile home or, or,
[55:36] or a trailer that can just leave easily is
[55:40] because it's within the definition of Tiny House is the,
[55:44] the caveat of, of permanent provisions.
[55:47] Like, it, it is hooked up in a permanent fashion
[55:49] to the spot that it is in.
[55:51] Well, so a a a mobile
[55:56] home, which is a, a House on Wheels
[56:00] is parked typically jacked up
[56:02] and they put a, a block wall under it
[56:04] and it is hooked up to utilities permanently.
[56:06] You can't drive it off without disconnecting them,
[56:09] at least not without much damage. So I think
[56:12] That would fit in the definition, but something like a
[56:14] camper wouldn't because Correct.
[56:15] It has a tank and it's not connected into the
[56:17] Infrastructure.
[56:18] So I, I think based on on that clarification,
[56:20] we're probably okay with G.
[56:22] Okay.
[56:27] Now, innovative housing, does that include,
[56:29] that includes yurts?
[56:30] So each structure has heating, cooking
[56:33] and sanitary facilities.
[56:35] I guess I'm gonna leave that up to code to figure out how a
[56:39] a yurt contains all of that.
[56:42] Okay. I mean, hey, the Native Americans had
[56:47] heating, cooking and sanitary facilities in their lodges.
[56:51] In their yurts. Yes they did. Yes they did.
[56:52] They probably don't necess meet current code though. No.
[56:56] Yeah, I don't think they had, they had plumbing.
[57:00] They were going outside to do their business.
[57:03] Yeah. Mr. Mr. Chase. So
[57:05] A a little off subject, but the, it's sooner
[57:09] or later it's gonna come.
[57:11] Somebody's gonna put in a tiny home on a house lot
[57:14] and then wanna put in a second tiny home for an A DU.
[57:20] Somebody's gonna come up with that someday.
[57:21] So be ready for that.
[57:27] A tiny home park. Yep.
[57:30] Yeah. Wasn't that one of the proposed developments
[57:33] that they were wanting to do was these kind
[57:34] of like cottage community type things? That's
[57:37] In Chesta.
[57:38] Yeah. Cottage. Yeah. Dover
[57:39] Has one too.
[57:40] Yeah. Cottage court. Yeah.
[57:41] Yeah, yeah. I mean Probably an intentional,
[57:44] We, we, we could either see it legislated or,
[57:46] or somebody request us to have, that's sort of the
[57:51] new millennium version of cluster development,
[57:52] right? It is.
[57:54] Yep. It is. It is.
[57:56] And the real side track, the,
[58:01] the survey that went out
[58:02] for the housing needs needs assessment that we did in Derry,
[58:06] the cottage court concept scored very
[58:10] high. So
[58:12] I'm gonna guess though, if we had a one
[58:14] of those high density tiny home parks,
[58:18] it's gonna require, you know, pound water and sewer.
[58:21] Yeah. We would likely look
[58:22] For that.
[58:23] Or at least community water and sewer. Yeah.
[58:26] Depends on the amount of land.
[58:28] If you've got 10 acres of land, you're gonna use two
[58:33] for your cottage development.
[58:35] That leaves eight acres for your wastewater disposal. Yeah.
[58:39] Which in look at the size of the units
[58:44] as some of our neighboring
[58:45] communities have put in without, well
[58:46] There was a bill, I, I think it did not pass.
[58:48] I actually went to the hearing on it that said
[58:52] municipalities are prohibited from creating any
[58:56] dimensional requirements for residential
[59:00] construction beyond that, that the DES would require
[59:04] for approved septic designs.
[59:06] Yep. Yeah. So yeah.
[59:08] Yeah, that'll probably come back.
[59:17] Okay. So I I, I'm okay with leaving that in there.
[59:22] I think some of this stuff, based on what HB
[59:27] 1681 actually says
[59:29] is probably gonna be sorted out in the courts, sadly,
[59:33] because it's just not all that specific
[59:36] and each town's gonna do something a little different.
[59:39] Right. Is there specific recommendations in
[59:42] the NHMA?
[59:47] I didn't see one about tiny homes.
[59:52] See one about ADUs.
[59:57] Oh, the innovative housing structures are in the,
[1:00:03] they're in the, the guidance
[1:00:05] that talks about HB 2 44 16 81
[1:00:09] in SB 94.
[1:00:11] And
[1:00:16] Is that not one of the ones I printed?
[1:00:18] They're, they're, they're treated innovative housing
[1:00:21] structures shall be treated as single family dwellings
[1:00:24] or accessory dwelling units for zoning purposes, which is
[1:00:27] where we pulled that information from subject
[1:00:30] to all applicable land use requirements and state laws
[1:00:32] and regulations regarding drinking water supply
[1:00:35] and wastewater treatment and disposal.
[1:00:38] RSA 1 55 A 3D provides a pathway for construction
[1:00:43] and inspections to ensure
[1:00:44] that they meet building code requirements.
[1:00:47] It includes offsite construction elements
[1:00:49] that must undergo review
[1:00:50] and inspection either by local building officials
[1:00:52] or the state fire marshal to ensure compliance
[1:00:55] with the state building code.
[1:00:58] So I, I think the A DU law as it stands,
[1:01:02] makes an A DU either detached or,
[1:01:04] or detached a use of Right.
[1:01:06] But I don't think it grants you two or three.
[1:01:09] No, Today,
[1:01:12] Today it does not.
[1:01:13] No. You can have you
[1:01:15] and you can have your structure, your single family home,
[1:01:19] you can turn your garage into an A DU
[1:01:21] or you can build an A DU.
[1:01:22] We have had a couple of applications to the zoning board
[1:01:26] to permit to ADUs on a lot.
[1:01:29] Hmm. Well just
[1:01:32] because it's not in the zoning doesn't mean you can't
[1:01:34] get a variance to do it.
[1:01:35] That is correct. Yeah.
[1:01:42] So hope hopefully our, our regs do talk about proper
[1:01:48] utilities for however many they're granted by a variance.
[1:01:54] One of the things that we might do is
[1:01:59] put something in the land development control regulations
[1:02:02] regarding septic and,
[1:02:07] and water and other utilities for, or ADUs
[1:02:12] or innovative housing structures
[1:02:17] as a defensive move.
[1:02:18] 'cause the DBA cannot grant a variance to the LDCs.
[1:02:25] Okay. Yeah, I know that for the ADUs currently,
[1:02:28] they've been asking them to, if water's available,
[1:02:31] they've been asking them to connect
[1:02:32] to the public water supply.
[1:02:34] And I know that the, if it's septic, it's same rule
[1:02:39] that it's always been, you know, you need
[1:02:41] to have a replacement septic plan approved
[1:02:43] by the state on file in case you know if and when the
[1:02:47] Existing money does.
[1:02:48] Right. So where, where is that written?
[1:02:53] It's not in our LDCR.
[1:02:59] Is that not part of our A DU
[1:03:02] or is that, that might be building code.
[1:03:05] My suggestion is that we put it in the,
[1:03:08] into the LDCR maybe even if it's duplicative.
[1:03:11] Okay. Because then when summon comes to the ZZBA says,
[1:03:15] I want five ADUs,
[1:03:17] and we say, fine, we'll get, we'll grant you approval
[1:03:21] as long as they all have proper septic hookup
[1:03:24] and the ZBA can't just waive or,
[1:03:28] or give a variance to that septic requirement.
[1:03:31] Does anyone else think I'm being too Machia Valley in there?
[1:03:38] Are we No, I think that, I think that makes sense.
[1:03:42] Are we okay under state law to do, to do that?
[1:03:46] Well, my understanding is that the state law for
[1:03:49] idiots does require that they have approved septic.
[1:03:53] Okay. And I don't think such a thing as approved
[1:03:57] drinking water, but certainly the approved septic.
[1:04:00] Now it could be that you built a, an oversized
[1:04:04] septic system on your lot and,
[1:04:05] and the existing design could support the primary dwelling
[1:04:09] and an IDU, in which case you just need
[1:04:13] a subject designer to sign off on it.
[1:04:16] Okay. I just don't think we ought allow that to be
[1:04:22] subject to a variance.
[1:04:25] Okay. I will, I'll come up with wording
[1:04:28] and I'll work with the building inspector on that.
[1:04:34] Now if it's, if it's in the building code, then who, who,
[1:04:36] who gets to control that
[1:04:40] Would fall under the, the building official
[1:04:43] to make the final determinations.
[1:04:46] How we've been handling it is when we get applications like
[1:04:49] that and the building permit comes through Fire
[1:04:54] and public works sign off on the, the building permits.
[1:04:57] So that's how we check those boxes for code compliance.
[1:05:03] And technically the planning board doesn't review
[1:05:09] two one and two families.
[1:05:11] So if it's, if it's, we don't a primary
[1:05:13] and an A DU, it doesn't fall under our jurisdiction.
[1:05:16] It doesn't. Okay. I guess that's the best we can do then.
[1:05:20] Okay. Alright. Okay.
[1:05:31] So there's a list of zones in which they are permitted.
[1:05:34] What does the state statute say about
[1:05:37] where they're permitted?
[1:05:40] Let's see,
[1:05:45] I guess what it says is it may be
[1:05:50] on an individual house lot
[1:05:52] where single family dwellings are allowed.
[1:05:55] So is this the listing of all Yes.
[1:05:58] Districts that allow, okay. Yep.
[1:06:08] Alright. Anything else on
[1:06:11] Native Housing?
[1:06:12] Yeah, I just want to bring up one thing.
[1:06:14] We're saying the housing structure is composed
[1:06:16] of a kitchen living room, a bathroom and a bedroom.
[1:06:19] If we're limiting it to 600 square
[1:06:22] or if it's limited to 600 square feet, do we really want
[1:06:25] to tell people they can't have a studio layout?
[1:06:29] Well, I guess the question is, is that a,
[1:06:33] a functional requirement
[1:06:34] or a, a structural requirement if you have a, a kitchen area
[1:06:40] and a sleeping area
[1:06:43] and then you probably want walls
[1:06:44] around your bathroom. I'm thinking, but
[1:06:46] Probably, yeah, But I, I I, I would not presume it
[1:06:51] to preclude studios.
[1:06:55] Okay. Yeah, I think it is interesting to note that in,
[1:07:00] what is this
[1:07:05] in E one six?
[1:07:07] 5 2 5 1 E It, like you said, it mentions
[1:07:12] kitchen, living room, bathroom, bedroom as if those are
[1:07:16] necessity separate rooms
[1:07:18] because in, in, in h it mentions the requirement
[1:07:22] for the actual functional things like the fact
[1:07:24] that there's cooking facilities, sanitary facilities.
[1:07:27] If those are both there,
[1:07:28] it does make it seem like e
[1:07:30] is implying that you need support.
[1:07:31] Right. That's, that's how I read it at first.
[1:07:34] Well maybe we could go back to those more generic terms
[1:07:36] about areas dedicated to cooking, you know,
[1:07:40] sleeping and,
[1:07:42] Yeah.
[1:07:43] 'cause 'cause h if that's san,
[1:07:45] How do you, how you describe your bathroom things
[1:07:48] politely in the zoning ordinance?
[1:07:50] Because if that's the only thing
[1:07:51] that we're requiring is this, the fact
[1:07:53] that those facilities are present in the building
[1:07:55] then h covers that, that has heating, cooking, sanitary,
[1:08:00] I guess we could add sleeping and whatever. Yeah,
[1:08:03] Probably add sleeping.
[1:08:04] Good
[1:08:05] Think that's how, how it says it in here.
[1:08:07] Okay. Yeah, because here it says provisions for living,
[1:08:10] sleeping, cooking, and sanitation. That's
[1:08:12] A very good catch because I think the thing we wanna avoid
[1:08:15] is words that when we're thinking about it,
[1:08:19] oh yeah, that makes sense.
[1:08:20] But someone else trying to apply it, oh no,
[1:08:22] it means our room, you gotta have walls.
[1:08:25] And I don't know that that's justified
[1:08:30] in the state statute itself. Yep.
[1:08:32] Okay. So we, we can, I think that's the intent.
[1:08:34] Delete e and then on and we will renumber these
[1:08:37] and then h would structure contains heating, cooking,
[1:08:42] sanitary facilities in a sleeping area.
[1:08:45] Yeah. Yeah. I think taking the wording,
[1:08:47] maybe not the wording but the, the contents of
[1:08:51] the description of Tiny House
[1:08:52] where it says providing permanent provisions for living,
[1:08:56] sleeping, eating, cooking, and sanitation.
[1:08:58] So just something that encompasses each of those things.
[1:09:02] Okay. Okay. Alright. Yeah, good catch.
[1:09:06] Anything else on innovative housing?
[1:09:12] Do we wanna list the zones
[1:09:13] that it is allowed in in case there's nonconform?
[1:09:16] Well, I mean there, I'm assuming there are single family
[1:09:19] houses in other zones that are preexisting.
[1:09:24] I don't know if we wanna,
[1:09:29] I don't know if it makes sense to list the zones innovative
[1:09:32] Housing.
[1:09:33] This is not the same
[1:09:35] as an accessory dwelling unit. Right,
[1:09:38] Right, right.
[1:09:39] Alright. Yeah, I I take that back.
[1:09:41] So you you you're putting it on a, some sort of lot
[1:09:45] of record where it can fit,
[1:09:46] whereas ADUs can pretty much go anywhere
[1:09:52] and the town has less control over compliance.
[1:09:57] Yeah. Oh okay. I take that back.
[1:09:59] Especially for conversions. Right? Yep. Alright.
[1:10:02] Yeah, I agree. It makes sense to list them.
[1:10:05] My, my only thing is when we list them, if,
[1:10:08] if we then change the zoning so that some other residential
[1:10:14] is created, we have to come back here
[1:10:16] and then add it to the list.
[1:10:17] So you might say all districts, which allow
[1:10:22] single family residential uses that way you don't have
[1:10:25] to come back and revisit it.
[1:10:26] But that's just, I don't feel strongly about that.
[1:10:28] It's just, just a suggestion.
[1:10:34] I mean, as, as long as you guys, you know, when
[1:10:38] whenever we revise something, you find all the things
[1:10:40] that are dependencies,
[1:10:45] that would be fine.
[1:10:47] So make that change. So all districts which permits single
[1:10:50] family dwelling units.
[1:10:53] Yeah, I mean, back to, again, it just means
[1:10:58] that it's lower maintenance for future revisions,
[1:11:01] but Okay. Not a big deal.
[1:11:03] Okay. Anything else?
[1:11:09] All right, let's move on to general commercial. Oh
[1:11:13] Actually hold on.
[1:11:14] I do have one thing. Oh no.
[1:11:15] If we do end up adding, if we do end up adding the,
[1:11:18] the separate definition for adult care center.
[1:11:21] Yeah, that'll, we'll have to modify the types of uses
[1:11:26] page 'cause it has childcare center
[1:11:28] and group day care in that list. Oh,
[1:11:31] You're, you're already onto the next page.
[1:11:33] Oh, that's okay. I thought this was part
[1:11:35] of the section we were about to leave
[1:11:36] When you said Oh, before I I thought you were
[1:11:38] Yes.
[1:11:39] I I thought that, I thought we were moving
[1:11:40] past this to something else. No, no.
[1:11:42] So I wanna make sure we No, no, you're looking at changes
[1:11:45] to general commercial, which adds
[1:11:49] childcare removes daycare,
[1:11:55] so we should probably add adult care.
[1:11:58] And then family care. Is family care allowed?
[1:12:02] No, No,
[1:12:04] No.
[1:12:05] Family Family care is not permitted in commercial districts.
[1:12:09] That's, That's, they wanted to separate those out.
[1:12:13] So suppose I, I live in a townhouse,
[1:12:18] in a multiunit residential structure
[1:12:22] and I want to have a family daycare.
[1:12:27] Multi-unit residential is allowed in any business district.
[1:12:33] That's, that's all a change we haven't gotten to yet. But
[1:12:37] If, if the townhouse was located in the general,
[1:12:42] in the general commercial, industrial
[1:12:45] or manufacturing district by state law, family
[1:12:51] daycare is not permitted.
[1:12:54] Oh. So they, they they carve that out in the statute.
[1:12:56] That's, that's why they
[1:12:57] separated those two out. Okay, great.
[1:12:59] Alright, we're good. Yep. So we're adding
[1:13:03] adult daycare here.
[1:13:05] Child day child care center stays
[1:13:08] and then, I'm sorry, remind me what we're doing
[1:13:10] with group daycare that goes well I
[1:13:12] Thought we, you know, either had child adult care
[1:13:16] or family care.
[1:13:17] We had three flavors. Okay.
[1:13:19] So group daycare probably becomes
[1:13:23] adult care center. Okay.
[1:13:24] Alright. I'm thinking.
[1:13:26] Okay. And then
[1:13:31] the next biggest change is f all
[1:13:36] of the other sections
[1:13:37] for multifamily will re refer back to this section.
[1:13:41] So this is where we'll want
[1:13:42] to make sure we capture everything.
[1:13:44] This will need to be amended
[1:13:46] because the state guidance says we cannot
[1:13:51] permit these through a conditional use permit.
[1:13:53] They're permitted as a matter of, right. So my state, so do
[1:13:57] I have one without sufficient read on it?
[1:14:03] You should, because this one includes Shelby approved
[1:14:06] for a conditional use permit. Right.
[1:14:08] This, so when I drafted the proposed changes,
[1:14:12] I did not have the state guidance that reiterated
[1:14:15] that we can't do conditional use permit.
[1:14:17] Yeah. So that's, so I'm suggesting changes
[1:14:20] Wells also because my understanding is
[1:14:22] it is a use of, right.
[1:14:23] Yes.
[1:14:28] I would suggest that f be amended to say,
[1:14:33] so f would just say multi-family residential uses
[1:14:37] and then get rid of the rest of the language in
[1:14:41] that paragraph.
[1:14:43] And then
[1:14:46] You've gotta get rid of the whole number.
[1:14:49] 'cause those are the, the, the findings of fact in order
[1:14:52] to issue a conditional use permit.
[1:14:54] Right. So I would suggest deleting.
[1:14:59] So just have it say multi-family residential uses
[1:15:03] or multi-family residential period in period, get rid
[1:15:07] of our, our permitted as a blah blah,
[1:15:10] and then get rid of the rest of that paragraph.
[1:15:13] And then just start with one, when you're converting it,
[1:15:16] you get an exemption for your setbacks.
[1:15:19] We cover our density.
[1:15:22] We talk about the, we talk about the non-residential
[1:15:27] use portion and then delete what is currently four
[1:15:30] and five, talking about applications and appeals.
[1:15:34] And then so Then adding site, suitability
[1:15:37] and availability of services.
[1:15:39] So density, where's is that?
[1:15:42] We pulled that, that was ex, that was,
[1:15:46] that was the density we had determined when we put it into
[1:15:48] industrial two, you can
[1:15:52] do whatever density you want.
[1:15:57] Okay.
[1:16:03] But we're getting rid of
[1:16:05] three, right?
[1:16:08] 'cause we can't specify that.
[1:16:11] So, Or we or do you think we can
[1:16:14] We, in certain districts, you,
[1:16:16] you can let me find that guidance.
[1:16:19] I, I'm, I'm having a hard time.
[1:16:21] If the state says a multifamily
[1:16:24] residential is a use of, right.
[1:16:26] That we can say, wow, it's a use of, right.
[1:16:28] If you have some non-residential in it.
[1:16:30] I'm, I'm not thinking that works. No, there's,
[1:16:32] I, I apologize if I'm not understanding here,
[1:16:34] but it's in 10 79.
[1:16:39] It not, I'm sorry, not 10 79. 10 10.
[1:16:47] What does it say, Randy? It says in four,
[1:16:52] a municipality may require all available ground
[1:16:54] for floor space
[1:16:56] or a percentage thereof to be dedicated
[1:16:58] to retail or similar uses.
[1:17:00] And that's under the, That's under the state law.
[1:17:03] That's under the state law.
[1:17:05] Okay. 10 10. This is, yep.
[1:17:09] Chapter 3, 1 9, house bill 10 10.
[1:17:11] And it's on the second page on the top. Yep.
[1:17:15] So we can Yeah.
[1:17:20] So we, we can, yeah, we can,
[1:17:22] we can require the mixed use piece of it.
[1:17:25] Okay.
[1:17:28] Interesting. So, so that's a, a use of quasi. Right. Got
[1:17:32] It.
[1:17:33] In 10 10, it does specify the ground floor
[1:17:35] where ours doesn't our
[1:17:38] Does it say shall, May.
[1:17:41] May, yeah. And we were, we were trying
[1:17:44] to be a little bit more flexible,
[1:17:45] especially when we're converting structures.
[1:17:47] So, and, and if you look at the next paragraph down,
[1:17:49] it says the municipality may provide an exemption
[1:17:51] to any requirements regarding setback, height, blah, blah,
[1:17:54] blah, of a building being converted to multifamily
[1:17:56] or mixed use through adaptive reuse.
[1:17:58] But, but I, I I, I would kind of backtrack on our, oh,
[1:18:02] the, the 25% can be anywhere in the building
[1:18:04] that we did previously.
[1:18:06] 'cause it, this is a municipality may require
[1:18:09] all available ground floor space or a percentage thereof.
[1:18:14] It doesn't say percentage of the building space. Okay.
[1:18:17] So I think, I think they've kind
[1:18:18] of pushed our hand in that regard.
[1:18:31] So,
[1:18:32] Well, I think to play devil's advocate, I think on
[1:18:36] that is yes, we can do that and put it in.
[1:18:41] But as an adaptive use, it doesn't prohibit us from saying,
[1:18:47] if an applicant comes to us
[1:18:49] and says, yes, we understand we have to have, you require us
[1:18:53] to have a certain percentage.
[1:18:55] And the state law says ground floor space.
[1:18:57] But what is
[1:18:58] to prevent you from letting us do this on the second floor
[1:19:02] or the third floor there, there's nothing here
[1:19:04] that says we can't change it.
[1:19:05] It says,
[1:19:07] Yeah, If somebody comes in
[1:19:08] and fights us, we have this to fall back on
[1:19:10] and say, yes, you have to have a percentage
[1:19:13] or the whole ground floor.
[1:19:15] But if you would like to, we will allow you
[1:19:17] by conditional use whatever to use the second floor or the
[1:19:21] Third floor.
[1:19:22] So I, I'm gonna go back to New Hampshire is a di state.
[1:19:25] The fact that the state statute doesn't say you can't do
[1:19:29] something doesn't mean you can, you can only do things
[1:19:32] that they explicitly say you can.
[1:19:42] I mean, I don't, it, it doesn't matter to me.
[1:19:44] I was just thinking of, you know, being innovative
[1:19:47] and like we had talked about when we did
[1:19:50] our sidewalks downtown.
[1:19:52] Yeah, I know. And, and I think trying
[1:19:54] To be more innovative and, and adapted
[1:19:55] It made sense.
[1:19:56] But I'm just reading what the Yeah.
[1:19:58] The statute says and yeah,
[1:19:59] I'm not arguing with what you say either.
[1:20:01] And I'm, I don't feel strongly as long
[1:20:03] as the retail component, retail
[1:20:06] or commercial component is somewhere in the
[1:20:08] Building.
[1:20:09] Well, it's in the zoning ordinance.
[1:20:09] So if they want to put it somewhere else,
[1:20:11] they can get a variance.
[1:20:14] I'm all for trying to clone the state law to minimize our,
[1:20:17] our, our legal bills.
[1:20:18] Yeah. I think Mr. Fowler would appreciate that.
[1:20:26] Okay, so we're gonna change that to mimic
[1:20:29] and say ground floor, is that?
[1:20:31] Yeah. Yeah. I I would say 25% of the ground floor, if
[1:20:34] that's the, the number we want.
[1:20:36] Okay. I would just limit it to the ground floor.
[1:20:37] So it kind of matches the state statute.
[1:20:39] Okay. We,
[1:20:45] I would suggest that we not change
[1:20:47] that in the industrial two district, the language there,
[1:20:52] because we're not required to allow,
[1:20:57] we're not required to permit multifamily in an industrial
[1:21:01] or manufacturing district.
[1:21:03] Well, but industrial two is not really
[1:21:05] an industrial district.
[1:21:06] I think the law says you have to allow them in any district
[1:21:10] that allows commercial or business uses
[1:21:12] Retailer office.
[1:21:14] Does it say retailer
[1:21:15] office? I thought it was more general.
[1:21:18] Yeah. See if I can find it.
[1:21:26] Commercially zoned land as defined.
[1:21:29] I'm looking at the guidance. RSA
[1:21:33] 6 74 43 1 defines multifamily dwelling.
[1:21:36] Is any structures containing more than two dwelling units,
[1:21:40] commercially zoned land in 6 74, 79 is land zoned
[1:21:44] for such commercial activities as retail and office.
[1:21:47] Where are you reading That? In the,
[1:21:49] the guidance document.
[1:21:52] So there, New Hampshire MA is saying that,
[1:21:55] or BEA is saying that under
[1:21:58] the definitions in 6 74, 79
[1:22:01] commercial ac commercially zoned land is
[1:22:04] land zone for retail.
[1:22:06] So I, I was reading the front page here where it says
[1:22:11] RSA 6 74 80 has been significantly amended
[1:22:14] to expand requirements regarding mixed use
[1:22:18] and multifamily developments.
[1:22:20] The current law requires municipalities to permit
[1:22:23] multifamily residential on commercially zoned land,
[1:22:27] where an existing building is being repurposed
[1:22:29] for adaptive use for residential purposes.
[1:22:33] Municipalities are required
[1:22:34] to afford exemptions, blah, blah, blah, blah.
[1:22:37] Law has been primarily amended
[1:22:40] to limit municipality's authority
[1:22:42] to regulate multifamily residential development on
[1:22:46] commercially zoned land
[1:22:49] and repurposing of existing buildings for adaptive reuse
[1:22:54] for residential purposes in their ordinances.
[1:22:57] Yep. So the question is,
[1:23:00] what is commercially zoned land?
[1:23:02] That's on page two of the guidance document.
[1:23:05] Under what you must do
[1:23:16] Commercially zoned land is defined in 6 3 4 79
[1:23:19] as land zone for such commercial activities as retail
[1:23:23] and office spacing.
[1:23:24] They're gonna, such as,
[1:23:29] do we allow retail in industrial two?
[1:23:33] We do. So I'm gonna say that's commercially zoned.
[1:23:36] Okay.
[1:23:38] All right. So then we'll have to amend,
[1:23:43] all right, we'll have to do an amendment
[1:23:44] to industrial too as well.
[1:23:57] Okay. Where were we?
[1:24:01] So we're keeping one, two, and three.
[1:24:05] Get rid of four and five.
[1:24:07] Get rid of four and five 'cause we can't have those
[1:24:09] get rid of G.
[1:24:11] However, I think you should retain that subsection one
[1:24:15] and two and add them to that above so
[1:24:19] that they talk about the site suitability
[1:24:21] and the availability of the appropriate services.
[1:24:24] Yeah, I would keep one
[1:24:25] and two then make g you know,
[1:24:32] site suitability requirements
[1:24:33] or some other general topic
[1:24:34] that would cover the one and two.
[1:24:37] I don't know. Okay.
[1:24:39] Leave it up to your editorial discretion.
[1:24:41] What would be a good title?
[1:24:48] Or you could make one and two.
[1:24:54] You know, g and HI don't care.
[1:25:05] And I think that we need to make it clear in here that
[1:25:08] we're talking about public sewer
[1:25:12] or municipal sewer.
[1:25:20] And that was one thing I wanted to ask the board about.
[1:25:24] It's, it's the, the, the guidance
[1:25:26] and the law was clear that it needed, you needed to have
[1:25:30] that, that the, the town
[1:25:34] could deny an application if there was not
[1:25:37] public sewer available.
[1:25:40] So my question and then I guess it would kind
[1:25:44] of depend on how we interpret the law.
[1:25:46] So it says you can deny it if they don't have public sewer.
[1:25:50] We have commercial zones
[1:25:53] where we do not have public sewer available yet.
[1:25:57] So that includes the GC district out near the Atkinson
[1:26:01] Townline where LaBelle is located.
[1:26:04] It includes a portion of GC three near the Robert Frost farm
[1:26:08] because sewer stops at Berry
[1:26:11] and then our entire GC four district, Ryans Hill South
[1:26:15] does not have sewer available.
[1:26:18] So,
[1:26:20] So one of the other things is in
[1:26:24] that if there is no public water and or sewer
[1:26:29] and the developer's willing to extend to provide it,
[1:26:32] then you have to let that be okay.
[1:26:35] Correct? Correct. But if someone wanted to develop,
[1:26:37] if someone wanted
[1:26:38] to put in a multifamily development on Ryan's Hill,
[1:26:42] let's say south, you know, a little bit more south,
[1:26:46] like say south of Fody,
[1:26:50] they're not by right.
[1:26:52] They're allowed to do multifamily,
[1:26:54] but they are not going to run the, they're not gonna pay
[1:26:57] to have the sewer come all the way down 28 from Berry.
[1:27:01] So I guess what I'm asking is, do we want
[1:27:05] to contemplate if they can make the, if they can make
[1:27:10] septics work for it, is that something we want
[1:27:12] to contemplate or do we wanna just say, Nope, sorry.
[1:27:16] State law says if you don't have public sewer,
[1:27:19] you're, that's where you're at.
[1:27:23] Lemme sort of free associate here.
[1:27:24] I'm, I'm thinking that in most commercial districts,
[1:27:29] the maintenance of private septic systems is
[1:27:35] gonna be the responsibility of who the the owner,
[1:27:39] the building owner what, whatever.
[1:27:40] It's a multiple tenant building. Yeah.
[1:27:45] I don't know what, what are,
[1:27:47] I'm just, I'm just throwing it out there for contemplation
[1:27:50] Specifically. Any thoughts on this?
[1:27:51] Specifically for Ryan's Hill? I thought sewer was already
[1:27:53] in the works of being expanded to Ryans Hill and beyond.
[1:27:56] That is gonna be years
[1:27:57] before we, we've got the funding to do the, the design,
[1:28:01] like the engineering design.
[1:28:02] That's what we have money for right now.
[1:28:04] And then we'll put that out to bid.
[1:28:05] But it's gonna be years before it gets that far down.
[1:28:10] Yeah. My feeling is we,
[1:28:13] we have a housing shortage in New Hampshire.
[1:28:16] We, we should be allowing multifamily on septic
[1:28:21] if, if there's adequate space for it.
[1:28:24] I I don't think it makes sense to require
[1:28:27] public sewer when public sewer's not available.
[1:28:36] So yeah, I think the key word is
[1:28:42] if, if if there's space on the, the parcel to, to do a,
[1:28:46] a compliant subject is on given, you know,
[1:28:50] where the, the general court, especially the,
[1:28:56] the housing board, the housing committee
[1:28:58] and the house was, was gone with that.
[1:29:01] We might be getting ahead of the curve if, if we do that.
[1:29:05] 'cause that may be coming next.
[1:29:08] Yeah. So
[1:29:13] now I'm gonna do devil's.
[1:29:14] I agree with, I agree
[1:29:16] with your statement, that's why I brought it up.
[1:29:17] So I'm gonna do devil's advocate on like the
[1:29:21] economic development side of it.
[1:29:23] We have very little commercially zoned land left
[1:29:29] if we're only requiring 25% of the building to have
[1:29:35] some sort of commercially use use.
[1:29:41] I wonder, I guess I don't wanna see all of,
[1:29:49] all of our commercially zoned land in areas that
[1:29:53] we are looking forward to redevelopment once we have water
[1:29:57] and sewer available to be all a
[1:30:02] mixed use like all apartments.
[1:30:04] Well, so I'm like, I'm like trying to, I'm like
[1:30:07] What is our, might wanna get some, what does
[1:30:08] Our master plan say?
[1:30:09] We might need legal advice on that. Yeah.
[1:30:13] My reading of the tea leaves is
[1:30:16] that the general court doesn't care about our tax base.
[1:30:20] They're way more concerned about housing people.
[1:30:23] Okay. And, and is it,
[1:30:25] but are we, are we permitted to do something that's contrary
[1:30:29] to our master plan if our master plan envisioned that as a,
[1:30:33] or has that set out as a different use or whatever?
[1:30:40] Let me answer that differently. Okay.
[1:30:43] If the master, if, if complying
[1:30:44] with a master plan requires us to violate state law, we need
[1:30:48] to violate the master plan.
[1:30:49] Correct? I, I, I agree. Okay.
[1:30:51] I just wanna like make sure we line up all of our ducks.
[1:30:54] Okay. Okay.
[1:30:57] Now Should we
[1:31:02] increase the amount of commercial space we're
[1:31:05] requiring on the ground floor?
[1:31:08] The 'cause we said 25% of the entire structure and then
[1:31:13] because we realized we, we possibly can't do that.
[1:31:16] We're saying 25% of the ground floor. Yep.
[1:31:19] May maybe we should up it to 50% of the ground floor.
[1:31:24] 33%. I don't know.
[1:31:28] Well, state law allows us to a hundred percent
[1:31:29] of ground floor if we want.
[1:31:31] I don't personally want
[1:31:33] to do a hundred percent of the ground floor.
[1:31:35] Is there, if we're concerned about using up all the
[1:31:38] commercial zoned area, maybe we, we differentiate between,
[1:31:43] you know, if it's in one
[1:31:44] of those areas we're concerned about overdeveloping into
[1:31:47] apartments, maybe in those areas it has to be 100%
[1:31:50] of the bottom floor or a higher number of some sort.
[1:31:55] Well, I mean we do have a number of zones
[1:31:58] that fall under the general definition
[1:32:01] of commercially zoned.
[1:32:03] And I think we could have differing percentages for
[1:32:08] those different districts, I think.
[1:32:12] Yep, we could. So this is for,
[1:32:15] we're we're talking about general commercial right now.
[1:32:18] So general commercial district currently is Crystal Ave
[1:32:23] mostly developed.
[1:32:25] There's a couple of places if someone wanted
[1:32:28] to, they could add this.
[1:32:31] Then the other remaining portion of general commercial is
[1:32:34] that small section.
[1:32:36] That is where LaBelle Winery is.
[1:32:40] There's a very, there's a small section.
[1:32:42] It kind of hits that, you know, 14,
[1:32:46] 16 route one 11 area.
[1:32:48] Well de depending on the density that can be obtained,
[1:32:55] I think we have to also envision the possibility of
[1:33:00] redevelopment to tear down and,
[1:33:02] and building a high rise in an existing commercial,
[1:33:07] general commercial district.
[1:33:08] Especially if, if there's a, a property
[1:33:11] that isn't performing or is kind of
[1:33:14] slightly less valuable than others.
[1:33:16] So when we, when we say, oh, all the lions built, yeah,
[1:33:20] it can be rebuilt if, if the economics work
[1:33:23] True.
[1:33:24] Yeah.
[1:33:31] So for gc, what do we want to change?
[1:33:34] Do we wanna change the percentage?
[1:33:42] Again, I've seen in the past where we come up with
[1:33:49] aspirational things to, you know, protect our,
[1:33:53] our ability to grow the tax base.
[1:33:55] Right. But no one wants to use them.
[1:34:00] We do say a minimum.
[1:34:02] So I mean someone could come in
[1:34:03] and say, well I'm gonna put a restaurant,
[1:34:05] which is, you know Yeah.
[1:34:07] The entire ground floor with apartments above.
[1:34:13] So I do understand that the town has
[1:34:18] a parochial interest in maintaining our ability
[1:34:22] to expand our commercial tax base.
[1:34:26] 'cause property taxes are expensive everywhere.
[1:34:33] We just need to be careful that we don't put in requirements
[1:34:36] that cause developers to have a lot
[1:34:39] of unrented space going begging.
[1:34:42] And that's kind of like predicting
[1:34:44] where the market's going in future years,
[1:34:46] which is I don't have a crystal ball.
[1:34:48] Yeah.
[1:34:50] Okay. So I don't know what this is gonna,
[1:34:54] this is gonna be a judgment call.
[1:34:56] I don't know that we have, I mean,
[1:34:58] unless we, you know, Brian's not here.
[1:35:01] Where's Brian? He's our, he's our realtor.
[1:35:03] You could tell us, right? Yeah.
[1:35:05] But, but, but by my opinion is I've seen a lot of
[1:35:10] storefronts, you know, with
[1:35:11] for lease signs on them recently.
[1:35:15] Yeah. I I think a small minimum gets a
[1:35:19] foothold in there for commercial.
[1:35:20] And I, I would much rather have an apartment than
[1:35:23] a empty storefront.
[1:35:27] Do we wanna just leave it for now
[1:35:29] and we can highlight it for the next workshop?
[1:35:32] We can do that. We could, we could
[1:35:33] kick the can down the road.
[1:35:34] Yep. 'cause I'm sure this will not be the last workshop.
[1:35:38] No, no, No.
[1:35:40] So, alright. We can, we can do that. All right.
[1:35:45] So we will do that. And then so GC two,
[1:35:48] the general commercial two district, which is
[1:35:53] that is, that is our,
[1:35:57] that's the Shanita road district.
[1:36:00] So Shanita Road and then it goes north up the bypass
[1:36:03] and stops right at the cell tower.
[1:36:08] So, and that was intended to be more
[1:36:11] of a medical area.
[1:36:15] So in this one we mimic the requirements
[1:36:19] that are in the general commercial district
[1:36:21] and we also add childcare center since we need
[1:36:24] to permit those in commercial zones.
[1:36:29] Anyone have any issues with that?
[1:36:32] Okay. Seems
[1:36:34] Reasonable to me.
[1:36:35] Okay. GC three, same changes.
[1:36:40] GC three is the area right around the Robert Frost Farm,
[1:36:51] which that one actually gives me angst if the state ever
[1:36:54] decided to sell property, I'm like, oh,
[1:36:56] multifamily right next to the farm. But
[1:37:00] Yeah, I mean, as written
[1:37:05] you six may come into conflict with a purpose about Yes.
[1:37:10] Size, height, and architecture.
[1:37:14] So in, perhaps we come up with our own like a, a different
[1:37:19] density and maybe
[1:37:24] this district, because it's so special,
[1:37:26] might need a different density requirement in an
[1:37:30] retaining maybe the 25 minimum 25% of commercial.
[1:37:35] But,
[1:37:39] Well, I mean, on the face of it,
[1:37:43] making it a general commercial three
[1:37:45] and then trying to protect protect the historic neighborhood
[1:37:49] is kind of oxymoronic.
[1:37:51] It is. I know.
[1:37:53] And I, I will tell you that from, you know, case law,
[1:37:56] you cannot enforce purposes
[1:38:00] unless there's specific requirements that
[1:38:03] You have to have a purpose though
[1:38:05] hooks it lost. You have to have
[1:38:06] A purpose.
[1:38:07] But the purpose is not sufficient to limit what goes in,
[1:38:18] I guess I would not like
[1:38:19] to see a big apartment building right next
[1:38:21] to the Robert Foster Farm.
[1:38:23] But how would we deal with that?
[1:38:32] Change the density requirement
[1:38:40] And something is going into
[1:38:41] that Robert Frost Farm eventually
[1:38:43] You mean this, you think the
[1:38:44] state's gonna sell the property?
[1:38:47] The, the land that abuts the Robert Frost farm, between
[1:38:52] that and the trailer park where I'm talking, coming down
[1:38:55] to the dead proof of the old clam haven,
[1:38:59] something will be in there eventually.
[1:39:03] So where the Robert Frost farm is, is if you were to go,
[1:39:06] Oh, that's West Running Brook though.
[1:39:07] Okay. So that empty lot,
[1:39:09] the Smith lot is the West Running Brook district.
[1:39:13] So the GC three starts after that.
[1:39:16] After that. Okay.
[1:39:24] Yeah, I'm gonna guess that West Running Brook,
[1:39:28] because of its allowed uses is probably also
[1:39:30] considered commercially zoned.
[1:39:36] We do permit multifamily in there. So with it's zoned.
[1:39:38] Yep. So that's already, we're
[1:39:40] Good there.
[1:39:41] I don't know, maybe we can put a, a pin in this
[1:39:43] because Okay.
[1:39:45] If we really wanna have a buffer of
[1:39:51] neighborhood compatibility around that property,
[1:39:55] we're gonna have to do something more than we've got here.
[1:39:58] I think we've just been lucky. I mean, high love Brook
[1:40:02] waiting facilities just down the road for that.
[1:40:04] And that's very nice and it sit back,
[1:40:07] but it, Mr.
[1:40:11] Ey says at some point something's going to come before us.
[1:40:15] We have a very limited list of permitted uses in
[1:40:18] that district, which helps.
[1:40:25] So maybe we would need to put
[1:40:27] a different density restriction on,
[1:40:30] on the multifamily use in that district.
[1:40:33] Yeah, there's that.
[1:40:34] And then I'm also, as I'm looking at,
[1:40:39] as I'm looking at the list of permitted uses,
[1:40:41] we're talking about, we're, we're talking about like
[1:40:46] 5,000 gross square feet
[1:40:50] or 2,500, you know, 5,000.
[1:40:54] Like we, we, we put
[1:40:57] square foot limits on our uses.
[1:41:00] So if, if I want to build a multi-family there
[1:41:05] and I wanna put in a retail store,
[1:41:12] the ordinance in this section says my retail store has
[1:41:15] to be 5,000 square feet, which defeats the purpose
[1:41:18] of not having a huge multifamily.
[1:41:21] So we may, you know,
[1:41:23] this the general commercial three district, we,
[1:41:26] we may wanna take a look at that
[1:41:29] and look at, like, look at that
[1:41:32] as a whole and
[1:41:38] Amend it.
[1:41:39] Well I'll, I'll be honest with you,
[1:41:41] I haven't really given this a look,
[1:41:42] but reading the permitted uses
[1:41:44] and reading the purpose, they are repeat it oxymoronic.
[1:41:50] So we gotta change one or the other.
[1:41:52] Yeah. So let's,
[1:41:54] I'm just gonna highlight this whole section
[1:41:56] and maybe we can, we can come back to this.
[1:42:08] Okay. Okay.
[1:42:09] And then GC four were the same changes that we made
[1:42:13] for general commercial and GC two.
[1:42:17] So where is GC four General commercial four starts?
[1:42:23] I think It's, it's that just south? No, no,
[1:42:25] I, I, I geographically where Is that? I'm so sorry.
[1:42:28] Oh yeah, so it's, it's south of
[1:42:33] it starts just below, I wanna say it's
[1:42:38] FO and GC four.
[1:42:39] That's, I was Wondering too.
[1:42:40] I should have brought in my laptop with a GIS
[1:42:42] so we can project it,
[1:42:44] Put it up.
[1:42:45] So yeah, so it runs as you're looking at the,
[1:42:50] as you're looking at like the zoning map, it starts at,
[1:42:54] I don't know the exact spot,
[1:42:55] but it starts like right in the general area of like fody
[1:42:59] and it runs, it's the rest of it
[1:43:01] and it runs all the way to the townline.
[1:43:03] Can you bring up the founds website GS and find out
[1:43:07] For us maybe the zoning, the zoning map.
[1:43:09] You can find it on the, if you go
[1:43:11] to the planning board page under forms and
[1:43:14] or ordinances, it should be a link right there.
[1:43:17] Thanks. Thank you.
[1:43:19] So are you saying from fody down to ACE Paving
[1:43:23] and Vincent's Auto Sale all the way down to
[1:43:25] The town? That's all the way down to the,
[1:43:26] That's all g that's all this GC four.
[1:43:30] Yep. It goes right to the town
[1:43:31] Line.
[1:43:32] It's not GC two or any of that stuff? No,
[1:43:34] It's GC four.
[1:43:35] Okay, Well that's pretty
[1:43:39] diverse and pretty businesslike.
[1:43:41] It is.
[1:43:53] I guess I don't have a a,
[1:43:55] So if an assisted living place were
[1:43:58] to go in across the street from Legis, hypothetically,
[1:44:03] if an assisted living place was
[1:44:04] to go in across the street from ACEs paving,
[1:44:08] which is Vincent's, which was one of those car places,
[1:44:13] how would the septic and water,
[1:44:17] They would have to, they would have to, they'd have
[1:44:19] to make the septic work.
[1:44:21] We have waters available.
[1:44:22] They'd have to bring it under, under 28 across the street.
[1:44:27] 'cause water's on water's on the
[1:44:30] West Side.
[1:44:31] West side, yeah. Okay.
[1:44:34] I was just curious. Well, and,
[1:44:35] and I, I think that's why in the long term capital
[1:44:37] improvement plan, you know, sewers going down there
[1:44:39] because there is any limitation on
[1:44:42] what folks will build based on availability
[1:44:46] of those utilities.
[1:44:49] So just because you haven't allowed use
[1:44:51] doesn't mean anyone's gonna build something
[1:44:54] until economic sense.
[1:44:57] And that may mean town silver.
[1:45:01] Yeah.
[1:45:06] So unless anyone thinks that
[1:45:09] allowing those developments in there, assuming that anyone
[1:45:13] could make that work is, is a bad thing,
[1:45:16] then I don't see a, I don't see a problem.
[1:45:21] Okay.
[1:45:23] Okay. On to OBD
[1:45:26] And then,
[1:45:31] so office, business district,
[1:45:35] what we did, oh, there we go.
[1:45:37] Oh, here's our map. So,
[1:45:42] so the, the red section is, the
[1:45:51] Red section is the fairways. Fairways,
[1:45:53] Yeah.
[1:45:54] So that's West running Brook.
[1:45:55] And then, and then, so the,
[1:45:58] the red section's west running Brook.
[1:46:01] And then we go to,
[1:46:07] Oh, the, the tan stuff south of the red section is west
[1:46:11] Running Brook is west running Brook.
[1:46:12] Okay. And then the orange is oranges is
[1:46:16] GC Three, GC three, and then the pink is GC four.
[1:46:19] So it starts at GC four,
[1:46:23] Lawrence Road goes south.
[1:46:29] Is OBD like Shani?
[1:46:31] No. So, so we're looking at that pink section
[1:46:34] that's GC four
[1:46:36] and I think that is, that looks like Lawrence Road.
[1:46:39] Yeah, it is. Yeah. Well I think we moved on
[1:46:42] to, okay. OBD.
[1:46:44] Okay. So OBD office business district is on the London
[1:46:49] dairy town line on West Broadway.
[1:46:57] So you're talking about, no, yeah,
[1:47:00] scroll up just a little bit Owen
[1:47:05] up a little bit more
[1:47:11] and it, oh, sorry.
[1:47:12] No, you're right. So yeah, go up just a little bit more. Be
[1:47:15] That white Area.
[1:47:16] Yeah. OBD is that whitish color?
[1:47:17] Oh yeah, right along the street. Yep. Yeah. Yep.
[1:47:22] Okay. Got it.
[1:47:29] So currently in the OBD multifamily dwellings are
[1:47:33] permitted as per the section 1 65 49 B
[1:47:38] one, which is the TBOD.
[1:47:40] The TBOD allows 45 units an acre.
[1:47:43] I was thinking the board
[1:47:48] didn't wanna refer back to the TBOD
[1:47:53] when we had originally done the zoning for the OBD,
[1:47:57] the density requirement was much less in the TBOD.
[1:48:12] All right. Anything else on OBD?
[1:48:15] Okay, So neighborhood commercial,
[1:48:17] that's the one we fairly recently created.
[1:48:19] Yeah. And we tried to make sure that everything
[1:48:22] that goes in there is kind of like a bed and breakfast
[1:48:24] and has a a, a residential look to it, at least on,
[1:48:29] on the one side of the street.
[1:48:31] So I, I think you will need to
[1:48:37] make it subject to the dimensional requirements
[1:48:40] in subsection C.
[1:48:47] So we have those and then
[1:49:02] The red is MFR.
[1:49:04] Hmm. The red is MFR
[1:49:06] 49.
[1:49:08] And I, I think there's,
[1:49:09] unless there's tear downs, there's not a lot of
[1:49:13] new bill opportunity in that district.
[1:49:15] Right?
[1:49:17] I don't think. Yeah, I don't think so.
[1:49:20] It wouldn't be a lot.
[1:49:24] Okay. Fairways, that's MFR
[1:49:31] on page one 17.
[1:49:47] And so it's five Shanita Road,
[1:49:59] huh?
[1:50:05] Right. But we were looking at the red on the map.
[1:50:07] Oh, okay. All right. Sorry. Okay. Okay.
[1:50:14] Are we on to,
[1:50:16] We're trying to figure out what
[1:50:17] you, what you guys are doing.
[1:50:18] Oh yeah, no, we were, we, were we looking at
[1:50:22] where we were on the zoning map and I got confused
[1:50:26] and thought he was, I got confused.
[1:50:29] So it's after eight 30.
[1:50:31] Alright, so we're, are we moving on
[1:50:33] to industrial two now please?
[1:50:36] Alright. Yep. So that one we're gonna have to get rid
[1:50:39] of under H subsection one.
[1:50:44] And then I think we could just renumber that as,
[1:50:49] so two would become one, three would become two,
[1:50:54] and then four would become three.
[1:50:59] And then I guess if we, if we wanted,
[1:51:03] do we wanna make the same change there
[1:51:05] and say it has to be on the first floor?
[1:51:09] Yeah, I think we could mirror this. Okay.
[1:51:14] The other place we had a conditional use permit
[1:51:15] and we just got rid of it.
[1:51:17] Okay. And then we would get rid
[1:51:22] of five and six.
[1:51:24] Yep. Okay.
[1:51:27] And then for the rest of the changes,
[1:51:34] medium high density residential two,
[1:51:38] we'd add in the innovative housing structures
[1:51:41] because we permit single family detached dwellings.
[1:51:44] Okay. The same is for medium density residential.
[1:51:48] Yep. And also low medium density residential
[1:51:53] and low density residential.
[1:51:58] Okay. And
[1:51:59] Then that make sense to everyone?
[1:52:01] Yeah. Is that good? Yeah.
[1:52:04] This last section changes to the powers
[1:52:07] of the zoning board of adjustment.
[1:52:09] I will be completely honest, these came out of
[1:52:11] that house bill 2 44
[1:52:14] and there's a whole section towards the back of that.
[1:52:17] I don't understand what the state is trying to do.
[1:52:21] Bless you. Thank you. I'd like to hold off on this
[1:52:25] until we get a little bit more guidance.
[1:52:29] I,
[1:52:30] Yeah, Yeah.
[1:52:32] I think,
[1:52:33] Oh my god, this is a big, I
[1:52:35] Think what they're trying to say is
[1:52:36] 6 74 13.
[1:52:37] That, that's, that, that's an, a new one.
[1:52:41] I won't find it in the book.
[1:52:42] Yeah, yeah. So what I think they're trying to say is
[1:52:45] that when you have, it's, it's related
[1:52:48] to the change last year when you have
[1:52:54] like, they're roads that are not on the pub,
[1:52:56] on the official map of the town.
[1:52:58] So they're not roads that are accepted by the town of Derry.
[1:53:02] So when it, I think it relates to how,
[1:53:06] how you can permit structures.
[1:53:11] So if you have, have a lot
[1:53:16] that doesn't have access on a town road,
[1:53:18] and maybe it's a big lot
[1:53:20] and you, you wanna like build out in the middle of nowhere.
[1:53:25] I mean it doesn't really apply to us as much
[1:53:27] because we don't have a lot of
[1:53:29] Large track.
[1:53:30] Is this, is this related to like building on
[1:53:34] Yeah. Like the
[1:53:35] Dead end roads and things Discontinued,
[1:53:37] not the dead end ones.
[1:53:38] Those take that, that's a different one
[1:53:40] that takes effect next year.
[1:53:42] We didn't touch that yet.
[1:53:44] The this is, these are roads
[1:53:46] that are not on the official town map
[1:53:49] and how if the building official denies a permit,
[1:53:54] the zoning board can under the, how I read it
[1:53:59] and, and I need to get clarification, I understood it to say
[1:54:03] that the zoning board upon appeal could issue the building
[1:54:06] or grant permission to issue the building permit if,
[1:54:11] if the structure
[1:54:15] was placed a certain way.
[1:54:17] I don't under it's very confusing language.
[1:54:20] Well, so there is an existing
[1:54:27] 6 74 13
[1:54:32] and it starts on page 4 0 7,
[1:54:37] goes on to 4 0 8 in the book.
[1:54:40] And it does say,
[1:54:45] where do I wanna start?
[1:54:48] I shall have further power in specific cases by a vote
[1:54:53] of the majority of its members upon appeal filed to it
[1:54:57] by the owner of any such land to grant a permit
[1:55:01] based on considerations of justice and equity for a building
[1:55:05] or structure on
[1:55:06] or part thereof in a map, in a map street location
[1:55:12] shown on the official map.
[1:55:15] In any case in which the Board
[1:55:18] of Adjustment finds upon evide the evidence
[1:55:21] and arguments presented to it upon appeal, A,
[1:55:25] that the property of the appellant, which
[1:55:30] such map street location forms a part of,
[1:55:33] will not yield a reasonable return to the owner
[1:55:35] unless the permit is granted.
[1:55:37] Or b, that balancing the interest
[1:55:39] of the municipality in preserving the integrity
[1:55:41] of the official map and not increasing to greatly the cost
[1:55:46] of later opening such a street and the interest of the owner
[1:55:49] and the use of and benefits of the owner's property.
[1:55:52] The grant of such permit is required
[1:55:54] by considerations of justice and equity.
[1:55:56] So it it sounds like it's following that. Yep.
[1:55:59] Now the language there is a little obtuse
[1:56:01] It, it it is and I was not sure how to word this
[1:56:06] and I'm, I'm almost,
[1:56:11] I'm almost tempted
[1:56:12] because it's, it's a, it's a power
[1:56:14] that's granted in the RSA Do we have to do we have
[1:56:17] to specify it in in our zoning ordinance?
[1:56:20] No, Thank you.
[1:56:22] I mean, otherwise the don,
[1:56:23] we'd have to add everything in here.
[1:56:24] Yeah. So can we, we can just not amend that section.
[1:56:27] I, I'm, I I would say yeah, thank you that way that
[1:56:32] if, I like that the zoning ordinance, I like that a lot.
[1:56:34] The zoning board wants to interpret this good look
[1:56:37] and God speed.
[1:56:39] Thank you. That totally makes my night. I can't even begin
[1:56:42] To see you.
[1:56:43] Anything else disagree? Okay,
[1:56:46] Cool.
[1:56:47] Alright.
[1:56:49] So is that it for things that we think we need to change
[1:56:52] For now?
[1:56:53] For now, for now, for now.
[1:56:54] There there was the change
[1:56:56] that will be coming up in effective in 2027.
[1:56:59] I don't think we need to address it right at the moment
[1:57:02] that talks about, we can't put a, we can't
[1:57:07] put a cap on how long a dead end street will be
[1:57:11] and we can't, I think it's,
[1:57:16] we can't say you can only have X number
[1:57:19] of houses on a street.
[1:57:20] So there's, there's things like that Okay.
[1:57:22] That we can, that will be addressed in the LDCR
[1:57:25] and we can take care of
[1:57:26] that maybe once we're done with this.
[1:57:30] Okay. It's a July, July 1 27 effective date.
[1:57:35] Okay. And, and some of these are already in effect,
[1:57:36] so we're kind of playing catch up.
[1:57:38] Much of these are, much of these are in effect.
[1:57:40] Okay. Yeah. Alright.
[1:57:43] Well I thank everyone for, you know,
[1:57:46] pitching in and being interactive and helping.
[1:57:51] I think we've got a good first review.
[1:57:54] Any other closing comments?
[1:58:00] Okay, so going back to our
[1:58:05] agenda, do we have any board member comments?
[1:58:07] I Can. I fish for a motion to adjourn. So moved.
[1:58:12] Second. Moved by a second to adjourn.
[1:58:16] All those and chair say aye. Aye. Aye.
[1:58:18] Please stand adjourned.