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Good evening ladies and gentlemen.

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Welcome to the zoning Board of Adjustment for

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September 17th, 2026.

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Please rise for the P of Allegiance,

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All the flag, United States, America,

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and to the stands, one nation under God in.

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Okay folks, let's start by introducing ourselves

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to my far left, please.

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Anthony Henry. Richard Trip,

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crystal Morin, secretary,

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Be Lynn Perkins, the chair.

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Craig Corbett, vice Chair Jim Dettol.

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Jason GaN, Gus Biba

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And our code enforcement officer Carrie Owen

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and our clerk is, help me out again,

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Eileen.

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Thank you Eileen Boudreaux. Sorry Ms.

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Boudreaux maxed out on the names for the evening.

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Before we proceed, please, a few announcements.

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First of all, please shut off all cell phones, iPhones,

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anything that could create a distraction

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to these proceedings in the event of an emergency,

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please use the exit door to the rear

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and don't use the elevator.

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We are scheduled to end at 10:00 PM tonight as we always are

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with limited extensions

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and these proceedings are audio video recorded.

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Just a special announcement for

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consideration about these proceedings.

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Ladies and gentlemen, the zoning board

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of adjustment is not an executive or a legislative board.

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The ZBA is a quasi-judicial board that reviews appeals

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for relief from the zoning ordinances

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and utilizes community development regulations,

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state statutes and case law as its guide.

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Those that have standing

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before this board are direct abutters

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and those who could be aggrieved by the board's decision.

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The higher courts have ruled that just

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because you live in town

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and our taxpayer does not give you standing

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to testify on any case, that will be before us this evening.

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Therefore, the board will evaluate any individuals standing

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that are not direct abutters

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before their testimony is given and accepted.

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This is a courtesy announcement for those who may wish

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to speak this evening.

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I thank you for that and just don't want anybody surprised

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if they are not able to give testimony.

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We do have group representations I know here

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for certain cases, but

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before we proceed, let's call up our first case.

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Case number 26 dash 1 28.

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That's that time synagogue tabled from September 3rd

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and owner is Andrew Depel, right? Applicant?

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Yes. You mean I got it right? What?

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I got it right. Yeah, you

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Got it right.

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I remember my clerk's name

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but I Man should your out Well you

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Were reading that one. So yeah,

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So gentlemen, you were here last meeting.

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We asked in the protocol

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that you read your application five criteria for the record

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and then we will go through the normal questions

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and public input as well as staff report.

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So to that, I give you the floor.

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Certainly. Alright, so just going

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through the five criteria.

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Number one, the variance will not be contrary

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to the public interest

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because the Child Care Center proposed here will provide a

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needed community service in a location already accustomed

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to regular traffic and activity

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involving children and families.

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The operation will be subject to state childcare licensing,

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fire building, health

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and safety requirements with designated parking

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and controlled drop-off and pickup procedures.

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Number two, the spirit of the ordinance is observed

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because the purpose of residential zoning is

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to protect neighborhoods from incompatible development

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and uses that negatively affect their residential character.

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Allowing childcare at this location does not defeat

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that purpose because the property already serves a

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non-residential community function

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and the proposed use does not require converting

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or eliminating residential housing.

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Substantial justice is done

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because there is little public benefit gained

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by prohibiting children at this particular location

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when the impacts that zoning seeks

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to prevent can be adequately addressed.

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Denial would prevent a be beneficial

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and reasonable use of the property without a corresponding

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benefit to the town or surrounding neighborhood.

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Number four, the values

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of surrounding properties are not diminished

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because the pros, the, excuse me,

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the proposal does not involve construction

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of a new commercial facility

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or a significant change

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to the exterior appearance of the property.

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Property will continue to be pro, professionally maintained

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and the childcare operations will be limited primarily

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to week time, weekday, daytime hours,

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avoiding late night activity

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or other nuisance conditions

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that could negatively affect neighboring properties.

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Five A one Literal enforcement would result in an

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unnecessary hardship because no fair

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and substantial relationship exists

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between the general public purposes of the ordinance

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and its specific applications to this property

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because literal enforcement would result in an unnecessary

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hardship because one and a half hood road has special

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conditions that distinguish it from typical residential

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properties within the medium high density

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residential district.

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The property is an established community facility rather

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than a residential dwelling

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and is situated among existing educational

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and childcare uses.

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At one and five Hood Road,

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the proposed childcare center would utilize existing space

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without removing housing

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or requiring construction of a new commercial building

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because of the property's existing character

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and the established educational character

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of its immediate surroundings.

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Prohibiting childcare at this specific property does not

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substantially further the ordinance purpose

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of protecting residential areas from incompatible uses.

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And you have the floor to continue if you'd like.

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Sure. So I just wanna focus on the,

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the uses already present at,

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at the same property or nearby.

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So this property shares a parking lot with One Hood Road,

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which already hosts a

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a early learning facility with 34 children

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allowed under state regulations.

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This is an expansion of that same facility

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to another room in a different building.

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It is also a building

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that previously hosted childcare in the same space.

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There was a another business, which I am forgetting the name

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of, did, do you remember the Hartman's

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Hartman Hartman School?

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Hartman's Learning Center? Hartman Learning Center was

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previously present at 1.5 Hood Road,

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but it was as to my understanding,

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it was permitted under a different

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mechanism rather than through the zoning code.

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The use here is just an extension of something

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that's already present at one Hood Road to 1.5 Hood Road,

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which shares a driveway, shares, accesses,

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and would share office space

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and bureaucratic space with the existing school.

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I I think that's all I'd really like to add at the moment,

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except that I have a couple of letters here.

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One from a realtor, Bob Ramallo

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and one from Steven Depel, which

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full disclosure is my client's brother,

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but also is a former assessor for the town of Dairy.

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Just regarding the property values, can I give those

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to you folks to review?

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If you would give to the code enforcement for me please.

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I, I presume that's diminuation of value,

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that's what you're heading for?

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Yes. Okay.

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Would just like to submit those

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but in effect they are saying that there is no risk

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of diminution of value here.

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Okay. Mr.

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Proventure, could I trouble you for an image of this parcel

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one and a half and number one Hood, hood Road, right? Yes.

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Yes, Mr. Chair. Thank you sir. Come right up.

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Thank you Carrie. I did,

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I did neglect to ask the board's approval

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for this late submittal on the, the I make motion to accept.

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Very good. Thank you Mr. Corbit. Second. Thank you Mr.

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Dietzel. All in favor

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of accepting the slate submittal say aye.

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Aye. Any opposed? Thank you. Anything else sir?

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No, I think that addresses the, the two points

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that we really wanted to hit

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that weren't covered in the initial

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five criteria submission.

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One and a half hood you said had a prior learning

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center at it, correct?

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Correct. And when did that leave that use?

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I believe her lease ended at the end of July. Okay.

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I believe I signed the 1st of August.

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So are you refilling that void?

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Is that your intention here or?

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I know she did more tutoring more so than like childcare.

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I see. Same kind of similar use

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I guess is what you're actually telling

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us. Correct? Correct.

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Okay. Any questions from the rest of the board? We

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Got a couple, Mr. Chair,

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Mr. Corbet,

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So it's not, not necessarily a second location

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but rather just an expansion of the campus.

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Is that more of a way to think of it? Is that correct?

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Sort of. Yeah. These are two buildings

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that are right next to each other.

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So there's the Hyam Synagogue

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and the Church of the Transfiguration.

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The Village Early Learning Center

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of Dairy currently has a location inside the Church

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of the Transfiguration.

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It is just going to be expanding into a room on the,

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within its Hiam synagogue as well.

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And it'll be the same, same name, same school,

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Same license and everything. Yep. Got it. And

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How much space within the synagogue?

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Sorry, what was that? How

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much space within the synagogue?

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We have about around 3000 square feet.

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Thank you. That's all I have.

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Okay. Anybody else, Mr. Dietzel?

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No, thank you Mr. Chair. Mr. So the,

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are the people that are gonna be working at the daycare,

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are they certified by the state?

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Yes. So

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how many people do you expect will be working there?

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We would only need about two to three staff members on

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that side with about the expansion

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increases the capacity for children to 39

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or so, 69 total in both locations.

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So we have 34 on the church side, 35 on the synagogue side.

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And then we'd have, depending on how many we enrolled on

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that side, we're looking at 16 right off the gate, like

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as soon as we opened we'd have 16 kids.

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So we'd have about two to three staff members on that side.

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And then on the church side we have about eight

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and they're all accredited through the state.

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Right. And I believe you said

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that you had been operating the daycare previously in

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this, in this facility?

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Yeah, we've been open in the Church

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of Transfiguration since 2024.

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Alright. It's been about two years actually maybe even.

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Yeah, it was September of 24.

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You guys came before us for that, is that correct?

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No, we

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Had something, sorry, we had something at the church

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Transfiguration, didn't we? No,

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It was Journey Church.

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Journey Church, sorry. Okay,

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Sorry.

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Alright, Mr. Trip, you all set?

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I'm all set. Thank You. So, so

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essentially you're staying within state ratios of children

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to instructors or whatever you would call them, right?

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Yes. Your staff. Staff, everything is accredited

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to accredited through the state

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Fire department's already

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come through and given us approval.

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Same with the health inspector.

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So we've already been approved from both of those.

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Okay. Mr. Henry, you have any questions? I'm all set.

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Going all the way. Mrs. Moore. And you all set?

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I am. I am familiar with the property on the inside

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and I see it as something that would fit easily.

267
00:12:41,435 --> 00:12:44,085
Okay. Going all the way down to my far right. Mr.

268
00:12:44,245 --> 00:12:49,205
O Bimbo or Mr. Dani? All set. Mr. Dani. All set.

269
00:12:51,485 --> 00:12:52,325
I would just say that I,

270
00:12:52,385 --> 00:12:53,725
I'm familiar with the property also.

271
00:12:53,745 --> 00:12:55,725
I'm not an abutter but I'm close enough.

272
00:12:55,755 --> 00:12:58,965
I've never seen an issue with the original one. All

273
00:12:58,965 --> 00:12:59,965
Right, very good.

274
00:12:59,965 --> 00:13:01,645
Let's go to staff. Mrs. Oland, anything

275
00:13:02,095 --> 00:13:03,095
Thank you.

276
00:13:03,465 --> 00:13:05,685
As the applicant stated, they're requesting a variance

277
00:13:05,685 --> 00:13:06,885
to permit the operation

278
00:13:07,045 --> 00:13:09,605
of a childcare facility within the portion

279
00:13:09,625 --> 00:13:12,285
of the existing building at one and a half Hood Road.

280
00:13:12,705 --> 00:13:14,645
The property is located in the medium high density

281
00:13:14,755 --> 00:13:16,365
residential zoning district

282
00:13:16,545 --> 00:13:18,365
and the daycare is not a permitted use,

283
00:13:18,395 --> 00:13:20,365
therefore the variance is required this evening.

284
00:13:22,755 --> 00:13:27,365
Private schools are permitted in MHDR

285
00:13:27,845 --> 00:13:30,525
however, but based on the definition of a private school,

286
00:13:30,985 --> 00:13:33,645
the age group is K through 12 or older

287
00:13:33,865 --> 00:13:36,325
and the daycare facility falls under

288
00:13:36,325 --> 00:13:37,645
that age group category.

289
00:13:37,745 --> 00:13:39,845
So I'd like to make that statement as well.

290
00:13:41,025 --> 00:13:42,285
And as the applicant stated,

291
00:13:42,285 --> 00:13:45,125
they do currently operate the Village Early Learning Center

292
00:13:45,185 --> 00:13:47,725
in the lower level of the existing religious facility

293
00:13:47,795 --> 00:13:50,765
located at the abutting property at One Hood Road.

294
00:13:51,695 --> 00:13:54,325
While each property contains its own entrance

295
00:13:54,425 --> 00:13:56,885
and parking area, the sites are connected

296
00:13:56,885 --> 00:13:57,885
by internal vehicle

297
00:13:57,985 --> 00:14:00,925
and pedestrian circulation, allowing access easily

298
00:14:00,925 --> 00:14:02,125
between the two properties.

299
00:14:03,305 --> 00:14:06,245
The applicant proposes to expand operations to one

300
00:14:06,245 --> 00:14:07,845
and a half Hood Road within the existing

301
00:14:07,845 --> 00:14:09,005
lower level of the building.

302
00:14:09,475 --> 00:14:11,685
This area has historically been utilized

303
00:14:11,705 --> 00:14:13,205
for educational programming

304
00:14:13,665 --> 00:14:15,805
and activities serving the parishioner children.

305
00:14:16,425 --> 00:14:18,565
No significant modifications to the space.

306
00:14:18,585 --> 00:14:21,365
Our proposed to accommodate the new, the daycare use.

307
00:14:22,225 --> 00:14:25,085
The property consists of approximately 1.26 acres

308
00:14:25,225 --> 00:14:27,325
and contains an existing religious facility.

309
00:14:27,665 --> 00:14:29,965
The original site plan was approved by the planning board

310
00:14:29,965 --> 00:14:31,645
and constructed in 1994.

311
00:14:33,185 --> 00:14:34,445
And if approved by the board,

312
00:14:36,485 --> 00:14:38,645
a site plan amendment would be required to be reviewed

313
00:14:38,645 --> 00:14:41,165
and approved by the planning board as part of that process.

314
00:14:41,395 --> 00:14:43,485
Site circulation and traffic patterns are,

315
00:14:43,485 --> 00:14:46,685
would be evaluated if approved, appropriate permits

316
00:14:46,685 --> 00:14:48,005
and inspections are required

317
00:14:48,625 --> 00:14:51,325
and there are per pictures in the file.

318
00:14:52,465 --> 00:14:54,765
And I also would like to comment about

319
00:14:56,175 --> 00:14:57,525
their u their current

320
00:14:58,085 --> 00:15:00,245
location at One Hood Road was permitted

321
00:15:00,245 --> 00:15:02,605
because that was a prior daycare facility

322
00:15:03,405 --> 00:15:04,805
previously operating under Headstart.

323
00:15:04,825 --> 00:15:07,845
So it was looked at as a similar use when the change

324
00:15:07,845 --> 00:15:10,205
of use application came through for that property.

325
00:15:11,135 --> 00:15:12,135
Thank you.

326
00:15:12,845 --> 00:15:16,285
Just update any recollection when

327
00:15:16,285 --> 00:15:17,965
that ordinance may have changed.

328
00:15:19,955 --> 00:15:22,805
Just kind of random interest I guess.

329
00:15:25,675 --> 00:15:26,445
Good question

330
00:15:31,355 --> 00:15:33,575
And I apologize that I didn't look myself

331
00:15:33,715 --> 00:15:35,695
so didn't mean to put you in a pinch.

332
00:15:36,875 --> 00:15:37,895
See if I can find it quickly.

333
00:15:44,285 --> 00:15:45,375
Tell you what, I'll leave you

334
00:15:45,695 --> 00:15:47,535
to just update us on that Ms.

335
00:15:47,545 --> 00:15:49,175
Oland and we'll, we'll keep moving

336
00:15:49,175 --> 00:15:50,295
forward if that's all right.

337
00:15:50,395 --> 00:15:53,415
That's great. Thank you. Okay, anybody have any questions

338
00:15:53,415 --> 00:15:56,175
for the applicant or directed towards code enforcement?

339
00:15:56,715 --> 00:15:59,695
Seeing no gestures there, you folks all set for now?

340
00:15:59,845 --> 00:16:01,455
Alright, we're make a call to public,

341
00:16:01,635 --> 00:16:03,295
see if anybody comes up, anything

342
00:16:03,295 --> 00:16:06,655
that's said you have an opportunity to to rebut.

343
00:16:06,805 --> 00:16:09,575
Okay, thank you. And we'll just see what happens here.

344
00:16:09,675 --> 00:16:12,495
So state court and we'll just see if anybody comes up.

345
00:16:13,295 --> 00:16:15,575
Anybody in favor of this application,

346
00:16:15,605 --> 00:16:18,215
this would be your opportunity to come forward and speak.

347
00:16:19,275 --> 00:16:20,895
Let the board hear your thoughts.

348
00:16:21,315 --> 00:16:22,655
Seeing nobody arise

349
00:16:22,795 --> 00:16:26,135
and no gestures there, anybody opposed to this application,

350
00:16:26,165 --> 00:16:27,975
this would be your opportunity to come forward.

351
00:16:29,045 --> 00:16:31,255
Alright gentlemen, we'll yield to this man

352
00:16:31,255 --> 00:16:32,615
with his arm in the air.

353
00:16:38,445 --> 00:16:39,895
Good evening. Good

354
00:16:39,895 --> 00:16:40,895
Evening.

355
00:16:40,895 --> 00:16:41,415
Good evening. Thank And your name

356
00:16:41,415 --> 00:16:43,855
and address, you'll be a director. Butter. You betcha.

357
00:16:44,025 --> 00:16:46,695
Bruce Brown, six Hood Road, dairy, New Hampshire.

358
00:16:46,955 --> 00:16:49,295
You are a director. Butter? I am a director. Butter,

359
00:16:49,465 --> 00:16:50,465
Thank you very much.

360
00:16:51,165 --> 00:16:52,335
What? What say you

361
00:16:53,315 --> 00:16:54,895
No, no, and no.

362
00:16:57,755 --> 00:16:59,215
You have an opportunity to elaborate.

363
00:16:59,235 --> 00:17:00,975
The board doesn't make a decision

364
00:17:00,975 --> 00:17:01,975
On that.

365
00:17:01,975 --> 00:17:04,855
I've got 69 years in the town of Derry to elaborate on

366
00:17:04,855 --> 00:17:06,455
and you don't have all the time in the world

367
00:17:06,455 --> 00:17:07,535
to listen to all that crap.

368
00:17:07,755 --> 00:17:10,935
You know what, I'm not up for your arrogance and just,

369
00:17:11,115 --> 00:17:12,335
and just being dismissive.

370
00:17:12,335 --> 00:17:14,255
Please get to the 0.5 criteria. Tell us

371
00:17:14,255 --> 00:17:16,055
Which, okay, one of the first questions I would like the

372
00:17:16,055 --> 00:17:19,535
board to ask is how many parking spaces this facility

373
00:17:19,675 --> 00:17:21,815
or whatever they plan on doing is gonna take up.

374
00:17:22,635 --> 00:17:24,175
It is a shared parking lot,

375
00:17:24,755 --> 00:17:28,255
but one of the things that has disturbed us since 2007,

376
00:17:29,075 --> 00:17:31,775
the original planning board decision had

377
00:17:32,555 --> 00:17:36,415
the upper entrance way being all one way going in

378
00:17:37,115 --> 00:17:39,455
and one way coming out down by the Church

379
00:17:39,455 --> 00:17:43,175
of the Transfiguration, by the time the facility was built,

380
00:17:44,055 --> 00:17:46,775
somebody made the decision to go one way in one way out

381
00:17:46,875 --> 00:17:49,965
for the synagogue, one way in, one way out for the church.

382
00:17:50,945 --> 00:17:54,765
And so that may not seem like a hill of beans to you,

383
00:17:55,465 --> 00:17:57,565
but those entryways

384
00:17:57,565 --> 00:18:00,605
and whatever are directly opposite driveways

385
00:18:00,905 --> 00:18:03,165
of private representatives on Hood Road.

386
00:18:03,665 --> 00:18:06,765
And if you can get a picture of that up on your screen

387
00:18:06,785 --> 00:18:08,045
or whatever, you'd see that.

388
00:18:08,395 --> 00:18:11,485
Okay, so that's one thing right off the bat.

389
00:18:17,575 --> 00:18:19,925
Sorry, was the concern the parking spots or the entrance?

390
00:18:20,675 --> 00:18:23,245
Well, all traffic. I like the fact when the dairy police

391
00:18:23,245 --> 00:18:24,685
come in they can park in there.

392
00:18:25,665 --> 00:18:27,045
It helps us out an awful lot.

393
00:18:27,145 --> 00:18:29,805
We, the number one major current concern I have,

394
00:18:30,085 --> 00:18:32,445
I have nothing against the idea of the facility

395
00:18:32,465 --> 00:18:35,565
or anything like that, but our neighborhood is turned into a

396
00:18:35,565 --> 00:18:37,925
horror show, especially when it comes to traffic.

397
00:18:38,835 --> 00:18:43,205
Okay? You've got Nutfield Heights senior center right next

398
00:18:43,205 --> 00:18:47,285
door that doesn't have to put up stop signs coming out

399
00:18:47,875 --> 00:18:49,805
according to Alan Cote when I found

400
00:18:49,805 --> 00:18:50,845
that out three years ago.

401
00:18:51,345 --> 00:18:53,765
So you've got cars coming out at will over there

402
00:18:54,385 --> 00:18:57,485
and they're right next to the entranceway for the synagogue,

403
00:18:57,485 --> 00:18:58,805
which is in and out right there.

404
00:18:59,425 --> 00:19:02,245
The other problem we've got is a stop sign on Lennox Road

405
00:19:02,245 --> 00:19:04,445
that nobody understands the word stop.

406
00:19:05,105 --> 00:19:06,405
People just go right through

407
00:19:06,405 --> 00:19:08,045
that stop sign like there's no problem.

408
00:19:08,705 --> 00:19:11,045
So that's another problem we have now.

409
00:19:11,065 --> 00:19:12,405
You say, well it's a big deal.

410
00:19:12,435 --> 00:19:15,645
Well they've started cross country up at Hood School

411
00:19:16,225 --> 00:19:19,605
and yesterday we had two kids coming along Lenox Road along

412
00:19:19,625 --> 00:19:22,485
the sidewalk and they're ready to cross the sidewalk

413
00:19:22,625 --> 00:19:24,085
and nobody's stopping for the kids.

414
00:19:24,105 --> 00:19:26,885
We almost had two kids hit as of yesterday

415
00:19:27,265 --> 00:19:28,485
and I've already been up to Hood

416
00:19:28,485 --> 00:19:29,605
School to warn them of that.

417
00:19:30,185 --> 00:19:33,405
So I don't know who's in charge at Hood,

418
00:19:33,825 --> 00:19:36,365
but that's further ference for you folks.

419
00:19:36,805 --> 00:19:40,725
Whatever. The other thing in regards to the traffic

420
00:19:40,825 --> 00:19:45,445
or whatnot, if I was living at the Kavanaugh residence,

421
00:19:45,455 --> 00:19:47,445
which is I'm six, so there four

422
00:19:48,065 --> 00:19:50,085
and it's right opposite the entranceways

423
00:19:50,085 --> 00:19:53,765
for the synagogue in and out, if you were trying to back out

424
00:19:53,765 --> 00:19:55,245
that driveway, you would have

425
00:19:55,245 --> 00:19:57,285
to have at least nine different checkpoints

426
00:19:57,285 --> 00:19:58,565
to watch out for traffic.

427
00:19:59,585 --> 00:20:01,805
You back out, you better look down the street,

428
00:20:02,545 --> 00:20:04,365
you better look directly behind you

429
00:20:04,365 --> 00:20:06,885
because ETS I am is in and out there.

430
00:20:07,385 --> 00:20:09,725
You better look right directly over to the stop sign

431
00:20:09,725 --> 00:20:11,645
because they're not stopping at the stop sign.

432
00:20:12,275 --> 00:20:15,205
Then you go up the street, you got two driveways for

433
00:20:15,205 --> 00:20:16,645
that field height senior center,

434
00:20:16,695 --> 00:20:18,965
which don't have stop signs at all

435
00:20:18,965 --> 00:20:20,245
that they can come out at Will.

436
00:20:20,585 --> 00:20:22,765
And that also includes the FedEx drivers

437
00:20:22,865 --> 00:20:23,925
and the UPS drivers.

438
00:20:24,585 --> 00:20:27,485
And then I'm right across the street from those,

439
00:20:28,165 --> 00:20:30,165
I can't back outta my driveways anymore

440
00:20:30,715 --> 00:20:34,045
because we've got people coming up Pearly Road running the

441
00:20:34,045 --> 00:20:36,045
stop sign at the top of Pearly Road.

442
00:20:36,825 --> 00:20:39,085
So traffic is getting to be an issue

443
00:20:39,505 --> 00:20:41,805
or whatever and other things.

444
00:20:42,985 --> 00:20:44,965
So if I can hold your thought there. Sure.

445
00:20:46,035 --> 00:20:48,765
This, the synagogue currently operates

446
00:20:49,335 --> 00:20:50,525
other than the childcare.

447
00:20:51,355 --> 00:20:53,205
Yeah. Correct. And the traffic, I,

448
00:20:53,365 --> 00:20:54,765
I imagine the traffic there,

449
00:20:54,825 --> 00:20:57,685
all those spaces get filled on whatever day the

450
00:20:57,845 --> 00:20:59,765
Synagogue, well on on the holy days, yes.

451
00:20:59,915 --> 00:21:01,405
Okay. They were just all filled up.

452
00:21:01,635 --> 00:21:05,205
Okay. So I guess the point here is you're,

453
00:21:05,285 --> 00:21:07,965
you're referring to, you've said

454
00:21:07,965 --> 00:21:11,045
to deny this based on people running stop signs

455
00:21:11,385 --> 00:21:14,085
and you know, cross cross country

456
00:21:14,735 --> 00:21:16,525
activities from the junior high,

457
00:21:17,465 --> 00:21:20,325
but that isn't necessarily relevant to whether

458
00:21:20,345 --> 00:21:22,765
or not the other five

459
00:21:23,285 --> 00:21:25,445
criteria apply here or not? Well,

460
00:21:25,635 --> 00:21:27,365
There's more to it than that. Okay.

461
00:21:27,515 --> 00:21:29,645
It's The overall traffic pattern. Yep.

462
00:21:30,275 --> 00:21:33,405
This we live on what we call in the neighborhood,

463
00:21:33,405 --> 00:21:35,405
the pinking and thoroughfare.

464
00:21:35,425 --> 00:21:38,885
Yep. Okay. You can go straight from South Pizza on Crystal

465
00:21:39,145 --> 00:21:41,405
Ave all the way to the end of Lennox,

466
00:21:41,405 --> 00:21:42,485
which is where my house is.

467
00:21:42,785 --> 00:21:45,205
I'm right at the corner of Lennox and Hood Road. Got it.

468
00:21:45,315 --> 00:21:47,885
Take a left, go up Hood Road, take a right,

469
00:21:47,945 --> 00:21:50,485
go all the way down Pearly Road, take a left,

470
00:21:50,545 --> 00:21:52,845
go all the way up Hood CRT Drive to Pinkett Academy.

471
00:21:53,385 --> 00:21:56,765
So there's also school traffic, other neighborhood traffic.

472
00:21:57,635 --> 00:22:01,325
This past year we now have e-bike traffic

473
00:22:01,995 --> 00:22:05,885
kids on electric scooters, traffic, you name it.

474
00:22:06,345 --> 00:22:10,405
And so it's gotten to be a little bit too much to bear.

475
00:22:10,745 --> 00:22:14,165
And 14 years ago I went in front

476
00:22:14,165 --> 00:22:16,805
of the Town Highway Safety Committee

477
00:22:17,025 --> 00:22:18,965
and asked if we could get a cop over there

478
00:22:18,965 --> 00:22:21,685
for like maybe 10 minutes before pinking inlets out.

479
00:22:22,105 --> 00:22:24,125
And they looked at me like I had three heads.

480
00:22:24,865 --> 00:22:25,925
And I'm just afraid

481
00:22:25,925 --> 00:22:28,765
that at some point in time it's gonna reach a breaking point

482
00:22:28,985 --> 00:22:33,085
and somebody's gonna get hurt or killed.

483
00:22:33,505 --> 00:22:35,285
So are we, are you anticipating

484
00:22:35,285 --> 00:22:38,765
that there's more traffic from the daycare

485
00:22:39,915 --> 00:22:40,965
then there will be

486
00:22:40,965 --> 00:22:42,725
From Yes, I'm, yeah, I think you've got, right.

487
00:22:42,785 --> 00:22:44,525
It sounds like they want to operate

488
00:22:45,225 --> 00:22:47,485
during daylight hours Monday through Friday

489
00:22:48,545 --> 00:22:52,945
and that is the peak range of a lot of things going on.

490
00:22:53,545 --> 00:22:55,265
I mean, I'll grant you up at the school.

491
00:22:55,975 --> 00:22:58,545
They've got adult studies at night,

492
00:22:58,975 --> 00:23:01,625
they've got church services on the Sunday.

493
00:23:01,945 --> 00:23:03,545
'cause the school district is renting out,

494
00:23:03,625 --> 00:23:04,985
I think the gym every now and then,

495
00:23:06,045 --> 00:23:08,905
but basically the Monday through Friday stuff

496
00:23:09,045 --> 00:23:12,145
and now they've redirected the bus traffic in front

497
00:23:12,145 --> 00:23:15,265
of the school so that you can't drive behind the school.

498
00:23:15,485 --> 00:23:17,785
It all gets redirected back down Hood Road

499
00:23:17,785 --> 00:23:19,585
and coming down along with everything else.

500
00:23:20,015 --> 00:23:22,785
Okay. So FYI.

501
00:23:22,815 --> 00:23:25,345
Alright, anything else Ms, Mr. Trip?

502
00:23:26,185 --> 00:23:27,545
Anything you wanna know Mr. Trip?

503
00:23:29,405 --> 00:23:32,785
Is it your opinion that denying

504
00:23:33,455 --> 00:23:37,425
this variance will resolve this traffic issues?

505
00:23:38,385 --> 00:23:41,025
I don't know how much it will, in my opinion.

506
00:23:41,805 --> 00:23:43,185
I'm the only one that had the guts

507
00:23:43,185 --> 00:23:44,585
to show up at this meeting tonight

508
00:23:44,915 --> 00:23:47,445
because everybody else considers it a lost cause.

509
00:23:48,475 --> 00:23:50,005
I've lived there 69 years.

510
00:23:50,765 --> 00:23:53,445
I almost was killed in 1965 on the road.

511
00:23:53,985 --> 00:23:57,205
My parents almost lost their house in 1964 when they threw

512
00:23:57,205 --> 00:23:58,725
cigarette butts in front of our house.

513
00:23:59,305 --> 00:24:01,245
So we've been through a lot over the years

514
00:24:01,505 --> 00:24:06,205
and so it, I mean to stand here in front of all these people

515
00:24:06,205 --> 00:24:08,085
and everything and say this is a real bad thing.

516
00:24:08,445 --> 00:24:09,725
I can't really predict that,

517
00:24:10,265 --> 00:24:12,245
but I know it sure as heck can't help.

518
00:24:12,705 --> 00:24:15,645
And by the time you throw into the other strange things

519
00:24:15,645 --> 00:24:18,325
that are happening, you know, in our neighborhood,

520
00:24:18,325 --> 00:24:21,805
people on two feet at night coming through

521
00:24:22,585 --> 00:24:25,365
and my God, I've even got a bald eagle

522
00:24:25,365 --> 00:24:28,325
that landed on my house back in July because of exit four A.

523
00:24:29,285 --> 00:24:30,285
I mean, where's it gonna go?

524
00:24:31,505 --> 00:24:33,245
Oh, we can't re we can't, I

525
00:24:33,245 --> 00:24:34,485
Know you can't do anything about that,

526
00:24:34,585 --> 00:24:35,845
but I mean, I didn't expect that.

527
00:24:36,035 --> 00:24:37,035
Okay.

528
00:24:37,585 --> 00:24:39,965
All right. Anybody else on the board questions from

529
00:24:39,965 --> 00:24:41,125
Mr. Brown, Mr.

530
00:24:41,195 --> 00:24:42,195
Trip?

531
00:24:42,865 --> 00:24:45,565
So, Oh, to answer your question, yes, I really,

532
00:24:47,405 --> 00:24:49,805
I can't say I, I mean I don't know.

533
00:24:50,065 --> 00:24:52,965
The problem is, is that where their parking lot is,

534
00:24:53,665 --> 00:24:55,365
is right next to what has become one

535
00:24:55,365 --> 00:24:57,925
of the more dangerous intersections in our neighborhood.

536
00:24:58,715 --> 00:25:01,045
Okay. Because if you come out from their,

537
00:25:01,155 --> 00:25:04,565
from their driveway, you better check Kavanaugh's house.

538
00:25:04,745 --> 00:25:06,165
You better check the stop sign

539
00:25:06,165 --> 00:25:07,365
to see if they've stopped there.

540
00:25:08,025 --> 00:25:09,605
You better check Nutfield Heights

541
00:25:09,605 --> 00:25:11,525
because I don't know, even if they dare

542
00:25:11,555 --> 00:25:12,805
stop, they don't have to stop.

543
00:25:12,805 --> 00:25:13,965
There's no stop sign there.

544
00:25:14,505 --> 00:25:17,285
And then they got another driveway further up on their side.

545
00:25:17,825 --> 00:25:20,405
So to answer your question, I really honestly can't say,

546
00:25:20,945 --> 00:25:23,565
but if this, if this goes through on a five,

547
00:25:23,565 --> 00:25:26,045
nothing vote tonight wouldn't surprise me.

548
00:25:26,065 --> 00:25:27,605
But I'm saying what I'm saying.

549
00:25:28,325 --> 00:25:29,845
'cause somebody needs to be warned

550
00:25:30,725 --> 00:25:32,085
somebody if something happens, somebody say,

551
00:25:32,085 --> 00:25:34,365
well why didn't somebody speak up at a meeting

552
00:25:34,385 --> 00:25:36,045
or something. Okay.

553
00:25:36,755 --> 00:25:39,565
Okay. Mr. Trip.

554
00:25:42,105 --> 00:25:45,685
So do you believe that the installation

555
00:25:45,705 --> 00:25:50,165
of traffic control signs

556
00:25:50,815 --> 00:25:53,685
would resolve some of your problems?

557
00:25:53,755 --> 00:25:56,565
Well, I think it would, but I still can't get an answer

558
00:25:56,585 --> 00:25:57,765
on the Nutfield Heights thing.

559
00:25:57,835 --> 00:25:59,285
Alan Cody couldn't tell me anything.

560
00:25:59,515 --> 00:26:00,525
Alan Cody's retired.

561
00:26:00,885 --> 00:26:02,845
I know, but not three years ago when I asked.

562
00:26:05,235 --> 00:26:07,885
Well, do you think that the installation

563
00:26:07,885 --> 00:26:12,165
of traffic control devices will help resolve?

564
00:26:12,525 --> 00:26:13,805
I don't know. The thing

565
00:26:13,805 --> 00:26:15,445
that really scares me the most though is

566
00:26:15,445 --> 00:26:16,485
where they've got the sidewalk,

567
00:26:17,025 --> 00:26:19,405
it comes from the sidewalk on the Lenox Street side

568
00:26:19,405 --> 00:26:22,285
and it stops right next to the driveway of Nutfield Heights.

569
00:26:22,685 --> 00:26:23,845
I really don't know maybe,

570
00:26:24,585 --> 00:26:26,405
but again that you're talking about the use

571
00:26:26,405 --> 00:26:27,605
of tax payer dollars

572
00:26:27,705 --> 00:26:30,325
for like just one little intersection in the town of Derry.

573
00:26:31,185 --> 00:26:33,005
You know how many people are gonna go for that?

574
00:26:33,285 --> 00:26:37,005
I don't think many, you know, so I, I don't know what the

575
00:26:37,005 --> 00:26:38,005
Time.

576
00:26:38,005 --> 00:26:39,205
Well it sounds like a couple stop signs would help

577
00:26:41,355 --> 00:26:42,765
resolve the problems you

578
00:26:42,765 --> 00:26:43,765
Have with the traffic.

579
00:26:43,835 --> 00:26:45,845
Well I think the only stop signs

580
00:26:45,845 --> 00:26:47,325
that you can put up are already up.

581
00:26:47,385 --> 00:26:49,405
That's IAM has got theirs up at theirs

582
00:26:49,425 --> 00:26:51,445
and dairy's got theirs up on Lennox Street.

583
00:26:51,985 --> 00:26:54,365
Now what the story, it still bothers me

584
00:26:54,365 --> 00:26:56,085
about Nutfield Heights.

585
00:26:56,685 --> 00:26:58,565
I can't get an answer outta anybody. Why?

586
00:26:58,705 --> 00:27:00,725
Why they don't even have a yield sign

587
00:27:00,725 --> 00:27:01,845
up for crying out loud.

588
00:27:01,845 --> 00:27:03,005
Nevermind a stop sign.

589
00:27:03,195 --> 00:27:05,285
Well, are you referring to Nutfield Heights

590
00:27:05,305 --> 00:27:06,965
and they're exiting off out

591
00:27:06,965 --> 00:27:08,565
of their parking lot onto the street?

592
00:27:08,705 --> 00:27:10,005
Yes. Okay, well I think

593
00:27:10,005 --> 00:27:12,285
that's a private parcel that, that the town

594
00:27:12,285 --> 00:27:13,285
Doesn't.

595
00:27:13,285 --> 00:27:14,765
That's what I'm wondering. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.

596
00:27:15,005 --> 00:27:17,485
I, I agree Mr. Parkins, I think I kind of came to

597
00:27:17,485 --> 00:27:19,885
that conclusion I think last night. Alright,

598
00:27:20,025 --> 00:27:21,485
So overall, Mr.

599
00:27:21,495 --> 00:27:25,005
Tripp, are you all questioned out there or not? Yeah. Okay.

600
00:27:25,145 --> 00:27:27,925
So overall your concern is traffic flow in and out,

601
00:27:27,925 --> 00:27:29,285
Traffic flow in and out

602
00:27:29,505 --> 00:27:33,285
and everybody in the summertime just does whatever they want

603
00:27:33,285 --> 00:27:34,765
to do whenever they want to do it and

604
00:27:34,765 --> 00:27:36,645
The abundance of parking spaces.

605
00:27:36,905 --> 00:27:39,085
Yep. Correct. Okay. Anything else?

606
00:27:40,145 --> 00:27:41,605
No, I don't think so. All right.

607
00:27:41,605 --> 00:27:43,165
Well let's see what I mean. I don't know what to tell you.

608
00:27:43,325 --> 00:27:44,845
I just pray to God nobody gets hurt.

609
00:27:45,035 --> 00:27:47,565
Well I'm sure all of us respect that concern

610
00:27:47,625 --> 00:27:49,205
and we appreciate you bringing it forward.

611
00:27:50,185 --> 00:27:51,565
It may not hold mustard in the,

612
00:27:51,595 --> 00:27:54,725
Does anybody else have any questions at all?

613
00:27:54,725 --> 00:27:56,525
Thank you on anything at all? No.

614
00:27:56,945 --> 00:27:59,165
All set. Okay. Let's see what happens. Feel free to call.

615
00:27:59,455 --> 00:28:03,365
Thank you. Thank you. Anybody else in opposition?

616
00:28:04,425 --> 00:28:06,365
All right gentlemen, come on up. You can rebut.

617
00:28:09,915 --> 00:28:12,765
What about people online? I'm sorry? We don't do

618
00:28:12,765 --> 00:28:13,765
Online.

619
00:28:13,765 --> 00:28:15,045
Oh, we don't do online. Okay. We don't do online.

620
00:28:17,355 --> 00:28:19,685
Good evening folks. Good evening. You're already here.

621
00:28:19,925 --> 00:28:23,725
I know you,

622
00:28:23,785 --> 00:28:25,045
you have opportunity to rebut.

623
00:28:25,045 --> 00:28:27,965
Sure. You've got traffic flow and parking spaces, right?

624
00:28:28,195 --> 00:28:31,005
Yeah. So on the parking space side,

625
00:28:31,465 --> 00:28:33,325
you know Mr.

626
00:28:33,425 --> 00:28:36,605
De lapel already addressed that this would be adding two

627
00:28:36,605 --> 00:28:39,445
to three staff if it were fully enrolled.

628
00:28:40,425 --> 00:28:42,285
So we're looking at an additional two

629
00:28:42,285 --> 00:28:44,725
to three parking spaces throughout the day.

630
00:28:45,495 --> 00:28:49,165
There would obviously be changes at the times of drop off,

631
00:28:49,165 --> 00:28:53,485
which I'm told are between a about six 30 in the morning

632
00:28:53,505 --> 00:28:56,565
to nine in the morning in for the drop off.

633
00:28:56,625 --> 00:28:59,765
And then pickups are between four 30 and five 30 at night.

634
00:29:00,225 --> 00:29:03,405
So there's not a lot a, well there is some overlap there

635
00:29:03,405 --> 00:29:06,525
with the, the nearby schools, Grinnell and Hood,

636
00:29:07,265 --> 00:29:11,285
but not total overlap, particularly in the evenings.

637
00:29:12,705 --> 00:29:16,005
So the, I think the risk there is mitigated just

638
00:29:16,005 --> 00:29:18,285
by spreading out the traffic throughout the day

639
00:29:19,425 --> 00:29:21,365
and not concentrating it at times

640
00:29:21,365 --> 00:29:22,925
that are gonna overlap with the school.

641
00:29:23,945 --> 00:29:26,525
In addition, I believe Ms. Owen had made mention

642
00:29:26,555 --> 00:29:29,445
that this may require a site plan amendment

643
00:29:30,025 --> 00:29:33,325
and changes to circulation within the parking lot.

644
00:29:33,635 --> 00:29:36,165
Okay. Which would, you know, at

645
00:29:36,165 --> 00:29:37,765
that time the planning board would be able

646
00:29:37,765 --> 00:29:39,445
to assess whether there is a need

647
00:29:39,445 --> 00:29:42,765
for additional traffic controls coming out of at high

648
00:29:42,985 --> 00:29:45,925
or the Church of the Transfiguration for this.

649
00:29:46,955 --> 00:29:50,565
That is one and 1.5 Hood Street for, for this use.

650
00:29:50,915 --> 00:29:53,645
Okay. So Mr. Brown's voice may be heard at the planning

651
00:29:53,655 --> 00:29:55,285
board level if it passes here?

652
00:29:55,545 --> 00:29:57,085
That's my understanding, yes. Now

653
00:29:57,505 --> 00:29:59,405
The ratios, Mr.

654
00:29:59,675 --> 00:30:00,805
Trip had asked about,

655
00:30:01,205 --> 00:30:03,325
I think you had indicated there gonna be 16 more

656
00:30:03,525 --> 00:30:04,685
children, is that correct?

657
00:30:05,475 --> 00:30:08,485
Yeah, the, the expansion could hold up to 35.

658
00:30:08,785 --> 00:30:10,645
35 children. Yeah.

659
00:30:10,915 --> 00:30:14,725
Okay. That was via state regulations.

660
00:30:15,355 --> 00:30:19,285
Okay. Do you intend to go to that peak? Mr.

661
00:30:19,395 --> 00:30:22,125
Corbitt suggested that state regulations would allow that?

662
00:30:22,515 --> 00:30:24,965
Yeah, we wouldn't, we wouldn't be bringing it up to 35.

663
00:30:25,205 --> 00:30:29,085
I see. The max would probably be, it's a one to eight ratio,

664
00:30:29,305 --> 00:30:32,045
so 24 kids would probably be the max. Okay.

665
00:30:32,195 --> 00:30:35,965
Alright. So we might be looking at a 24 additional cars

666
00:30:36,425 --> 00:30:39,125
per day other than your staff

667
00:30:39,625 --> 00:30:43,165
and those are broken up twice during the day, correct?

668
00:30:43,835 --> 00:30:46,765
Yeah. Unlike, unlike the schools though, it's

669
00:30:47,595 --> 00:30:48,925
like when school gets outta session

670
00:30:48,955 --> 00:30:50,405
like everyone leaves at one time.

671
00:30:50,405 --> 00:30:52,285
Right. That's not how the childcare center to work.

672
00:30:52,285 --> 00:30:56,205
So when parents need to drop off prior to work, you know,

673
00:30:56,205 --> 00:30:59,405
we might get 3, 4, 5, maybe six tops.

674
00:31:00,225 --> 00:31:02,525
And then same thing on the back end, you might have like six

675
00:31:02,525 --> 00:31:05,245
to 10, like 10 cars max right at a given time

676
00:31:05,825 --> 00:31:08,645
And minimal you might have three cars, four cars leaving

677
00:31:08,645 --> 00:31:11,005
and all in the same within three minutes of each other.

678
00:31:11,025 --> 00:31:12,685
But then you might not have anything

679
00:31:12,745 --> 00:31:14,485
for another 10 minutes, correct?

680
00:31:14,485 --> 00:31:18,565
Correct. It's pretty broken up. Okay. Alright.

681
00:31:19,685 --> 00:31:20,765
Anything else you want to address?

682
00:31:22,025 --> 00:31:23,165
No. All Right, very good.

683
00:31:23,565 --> 00:31:25,365
Anybody else have any questions for clarity?

684
00:31:25,845 --> 00:31:27,405
I have a question Mr. Tripp. So

685
00:31:27,675 --> 00:31:29,445
What are the operating hours and

686
00:31:29,445 --> 00:31:31,085
and what are the days that you're

687
00:31:32,585 --> 00:31:35,365
Monday through Friday from seven to five 30

688
00:31:43,025 --> 00:31:43,245
The

689
00:31:45,755 --> 00:31:48,405
Alright, thank you. All

690
00:31:48,425 --> 00:31:49,425
Set?

691
00:31:49,425 --> 00:31:51,845
Yep. Any other, any of the alternates have any questions?

692
00:31:53,345 --> 00:31:56,725
I'm sorry, did you say you had drop off between six 30

693
00:31:56,825 --> 00:31:58,205
and nine in the morning?

694
00:31:58,995 --> 00:32:01,965
Drop off is around seven. Okay.

695
00:32:01,965 --> 00:32:03,405
I mean I can't give you like a direct time

696
00:32:03,405 --> 00:32:04,845
because parents work different hours.

697
00:32:04,845 --> 00:32:06,765
I thought you said earlier that's all just generally about

698
00:32:06,765 --> 00:32:08,685
seven to nine is the drop off.

699
00:32:08,795 --> 00:32:11,485
Okay. I think the pickup is around four to five 30.

700
00:32:12,005 --> 00:32:14,165
I think I said six 30. So okay.

701
00:32:14,175 --> 00:32:16,045
Trust the lawyer to get it wrong. Would it be safe

702
00:32:16,045 --> 00:32:17,045
To Assume?

703
00:32:17,045 --> 00:32:18,605
Okay, just clarifying. Thank you. Well

704
00:32:18,605 --> 00:32:21,725
We typically, we'll see, I know there's a recent case

705
00:32:21,725 --> 00:32:22,805
where something like

706
00:32:22,805 --> 00:32:24,925
that the hours are stated it was seven then got

707
00:32:24,925 --> 00:32:26,085
to questions people are arriving earlier.

708
00:32:26,195 --> 00:32:28,925
Safe to say if people are arriving in that six 30 timeframe,

709
00:32:28,925 --> 00:32:30,885
it's likely the staff were probably getting theres a little

710
00:32:30,885 --> 00:32:33,525
bit early to set up potentially a parent if they had

711
00:32:33,525 --> 00:32:35,285
something coordinated with a teacher

712
00:32:35,345 --> 00:32:36,485
or you know, or with the staff.

713
00:32:36,755 --> 00:32:40,045
Correct. Sorry, not to lead you on that but

714
00:32:40,145 --> 00:32:41,145
Yep.

715
00:32:41,145 --> 00:32:44,045
No I was just making sure that hours of operation and clear.

716
00:32:44,145 --> 00:32:45,165
Yep. Thank you.

717
00:32:45,905 --> 00:32:49,605
All set. You are, have your base all covered here.

718
00:32:50,075 --> 00:32:51,805
Believe so. Alright, very good.

719
00:32:51,905 --> 00:32:53,445
And if there's nothing else, I'll take a motion

720
00:32:53,445 --> 00:32:54,605
to go into deliberation.

721
00:32:54,925 --> 00:32:58,205
I move. Mr. Trip has the motion to second please.

722
00:32:58,915 --> 00:33:01,925
I'll second it. Mrs. Moore made the second.

723
00:33:02,105 --> 00:33:05,165
All in favor of deliberations, say aye. Aye. Aye. Aye.

724
00:33:05,165 --> 00:33:09,005
Officially. Okay, very good. Wanna start the conversation?

725
00:33:09,005 --> 00:33:13,025
Anybody? Mr. Brown?

726
00:33:13,205 --> 00:33:17,505
The Abutter brings forward concerns about traffic violations

727
00:33:18,305 --> 00:33:22,345
relative to this site and traffic flow

728
00:33:22,565 --> 00:33:23,665
in and out of the site.

729
00:33:25,205 --> 00:33:29,105
It seems as though in my view that the amount

730
00:33:29,245 --> 00:33:32,105
or the abundance of traffic is not such

731
00:33:32,105 --> 00:33:34,385
as I might see coming in

732
00:33:34,385 --> 00:33:37,385
and out of Pinkerton Academy at two 30 in the afternoon.

733
00:33:38,825 --> 00:33:42,825
I, I have a hard time though I am greatly appreciative

734
00:33:42,885 --> 00:33:47,345
of his points of view for safety and so on and so forth.

735
00:33:48,285 --> 00:33:50,985
It seems like the congestion

736
00:33:51,285 --> 00:33:56,025
and the intensity of the traffic is hard to grasp

737
00:33:56,175 --> 00:33:58,465
that it's going to be a major problem here.

738
00:33:58,885 --> 00:34:00,865
Now if there's any blind spots, I think

739
00:34:00,865 --> 00:34:03,385
that the planning board amendments

740
00:34:04,595 --> 00:34:08,415
could help mitigate that.

741
00:34:09,595 --> 00:34:11,295
Unlike the zoning board, the

742
00:34:11,855 --> 00:34:14,895
planning board does walkthroughs and sidewalks.

743
00:34:15,275 --> 00:34:18,255
So any concerns that Mr. Brown was good enough

744
00:34:18,255 --> 00:34:21,095
to bring forward to this board may get addressed at

745
00:34:21,095 --> 00:34:24,295
that point and his voice could be heard at

746
00:34:24,295 --> 00:34:25,775
that point as well.

747
00:34:26,145 --> 00:34:29,375
Those are my thoughts on the, on this application.

748
00:34:29,375 --> 00:34:31,375
Anybody wish to add to it? Yeah,

749
00:34:31,375 --> 00:34:32,375
Mr.

750
00:34:32,375 --> 00:34:33,535
Chair. I've been up

751
00:34:33,535 --> 00:34:36,175
and down this road daily of the last three weeks.

752
00:34:36,175 --> 00:34:38,175
My son's been doing the athletics within Hood,

753
00:34:38,315 --> 00:34:39,695
so very familiar with what Mr.

754
00:34:39,695 --> 00:34:40,935
Brown's been detailing as well.

755
00:34:41,395 --> 00:34:42,655
And I think to that point,

756
00:34:43,775 --> 00:34:46,575
I haven't noticed the existing daycare there.

757
00:34:46,575 --> 00:34:49,335
As I come down the road, you know, the big traffic

758
00:34:50,035 --> 00:34:52,095
or the big amount of traffic I see is the six teams

759
00:34:52,195 --> 00:34:54,535
who get let out at the same time up at the middle school.

760
00:34:54,815 --> 00:34:57,775
I don't see that an additional 24 kids in a daycare

761
00:34:59,275 --> 00:35:02,855
are gonna add anything negative there.

762
00:35:03,205 --> 00:35:05,015
Overall for the use of an expanded use,

763
00:35:05,135 --> 00:35:06,895
I think this is the perfect location for it

764
00:35:07,835 --> 00:35:09,935
to be utilizing an empty space during the week.

765
00:35:09,935 --> 00:35:12,615
You know, the synagogue was previously using for childcare

766
00:35:13,115 --> 00:35:15,335
to allow an existing childcare to expand.

767
00:35:15,815 --> 00:35:19,415
I think it's something that it's definitely needed the more

768
00:35:19,415 --> 00:35:21,535
options and I think if everyone on the board I was closest

769
00:35:21,795 --> 00:35:25,055
to just coming out of child, you know, the childcare ages

770
00:35:25,055 --> 00:35:27,535
and to the point of drop off, you see about two

771
00:35:27,535 --> 00:35:30,055
or three cars, you know, your drop off

772
00:35:30,055 --> 00:35:31,215
time, you get to know those people.

773
00:35:31,315 --> 00:35:34,535
But if there were 35 kids that my kids, you know,

774
00:35:34,535 --> 00:35:36,295
I knew three of the parents 'cause those are the same three

775
00:35:36,375 --> 00:35:38,325
I was dropping off with or picking up with every day.

776
00:35:38,325 --> 00:35:40,525
Sometimes maybe it pulled up and was a full house,

777
00:35:40,585 --> 00:35:42,485
but to this point it wasn't like elementary school

778
00:35:42,935 --> 00:35:44,325
where every kid gets out at the same time.

779
00:35:44,465 --> 00:35:46,125
So I don't think any

780
00:35:46,125 --> 00:35:47,645
of the five criteria are really an issue here.

781
00:35:47,995 --> 00:35:49,165
Okay. Mr. Dietzel,

782
00:35:54,395 --> 00:35:55,435
I share Mr.

783
00:35:55,545 --> 00:35:58,835
Brown's concerns. I drive through that neighborhood a lot

784
00:35:59,015 --> 00:36:02,315
and a lot of the track traffic rules aren't either

785
00:36:04,175 --> 00:36:06,075
obeyed or, or well enforced,

786
00:36:06,415 --> 00:36:09,275
but I'm trying to look at it strictly from a zoning

787
00:36:10,245 --> 00:36:15,035
standpoint and, and wing this against the five criteria.

788
00:36:15,615 --> 00:36:17,355
And I think that most of Mr.

789
00:36:17,505 --> 00:36:20,715
Brown's concerns are longstanding and,

790
00:36:21,055 --> 00:36:22,555
and are are there whether

791
00:36:22,575 --> 00:36:26,635
or not the daycare center comes into existence or not.

792
00:36:27,715 --> 00:36:28,835
I think based on the size

793
00:36:28,835 --> 00:36:31,755
and the scope of what's being proposed by the applicant,

794
00:36:32,035 --> 00:36:34,715
I don't think that that the,

795
00:36:34,855 --> 00:36:37,915
the problem which exists already will be significantly

796
00:36:40,465 --> 00:36:43,675
increased based on what they want to do.

797
00:36:44,055 --> 00:36:46,595
So I I I agree with Mr.

798
00:36:46,705 --> 00:36:50,195
Corbett in that I I see that all five criteria are met

799
00:36:52,075 --> 00:36:53,075
Very good.

800
00:36:53,075 --> 00:36:53,625
Mr. Tr

801
00:36:59,595 --> 00:37:01,855
The problems that Mr. Brown brought up.

802
00:37:02,855 --> 00:37:06,975
I I don't think that the

803
00:37:08,285 --> 00:37:11,575
daycare is the source of those problems.

804
00:37:11,855 --> 00:37:14,535
I think the problems that Mr. Brown brought up are long

805
00:37:15,615 --> 00:37:20,175
existing and that expanding the

806
00:37:21,285 --> 00:37:26,055
size of the daycare would increase those traffic issues.

807
00:37:27,135 --> 00:37:30,655
I think I that

808
00:37:33,025 --> 00:37:37,055
maybe Mr. Brown should go back

809
00:37:37,055 --> 00:37:39,175
to the traffic safety committee

810
00:37:39,795 --> 00:37:44,135
and see if they can do something about this.

811
00:37:44,475 --> 00:37:45,975
Now, as he mentioned that,

812
00:37:49,335 --> 00:37:50,615
I don't remember what Mr.

813
00:37:50,835 --> 00:37:54,895
Cody's first name was, but if he wasn't willing

814
00:37:54,915 --> 00:37:57,655
to do something since he's gone now that

815
00:37:58,545 --> 00:38:00,175
maybe a revisit will,

816
00:38:01,225 --> 00:38:02,895
we'll get some resolution to your problems.

817
00:38:03,515 --> 00:38:08,135
So I don't see where approving this variance

818
00:38:10,935 --> 00:38:14,145
will increase the problems that he has.

819
00:38:17,555 --> 00:38:20,035
I agree with what Mr. Corbitt had stated.

820
00:38:21,855 --> 00:38:24,345
Very good. Let's structure the motion.

821
00:38:25,125 --> 00:38:27,905
So let's see, subject to obtaining Allstate

822
00:38:27,925 --> 00:38:29,665
and town permits and inspections.

823
00:38:29,965 --> 00:38:34,265
And we'd also like to make sure that

824
00:38:35,235 --> 00:38:37,445
it's subject to planning board, site plan,

825
00:38:37,445 --> 00:38:38,525
amendment approval.

826
00:38:39,105 --> 00:38:42,925
Mr. Brown, you'll have a voice there and,

827
00:38:45,025 --> 00:38:46,725
and I, I can't think

828
00:38:46,725 --> 00:38:49,445
of anything other conditions I'd want to put on this motion.

829
00:38:49,555 --> 00:38:51,605
Anybody else wish to add anything? No,

830
00:38:51,605 --> 00:38:52,605
I think we're clear with these two.

831
00:38:52,785 --> 00:38:54,885
All right, very good. That being the

832
00:38:54,885 --> 00:38:56,365
case, we could take a motion.

833
00:38:56,435 --> 00:38:57,485
Come outta deliberation.

834
00:38:57,555 --> 00:38:58,605
I'll make that motion. Thank

835
00:38:58,605 --> 00:38:59,605
You Mr.

836
00:38:59,605 --> 00:39:02,765
Corbit. Second. Mr. Trip seconds. All in favor say aye. Aye.

837
00:39:02,785 --> 00:39:05,445
Any opposed? Mrs. Mor, you have a motion to read?

838
00:39:05,765 --> 00:39:10,485
I do. Thank you. I make a motion on case number two six

839
00:39:10,875 --> 00:39:15,285
dash 1 28 to grant a variance to the terms

840
00:39:15,545 --> 00:39:17,045
of Article six,

841
00:39:17,275 --> 00:39:21,365
section 1 65 dash four five A

842
00:39:22,105 --> 00:39:25,045
of the town of dairy zoning ordinance

843
00:39:25,185 --> 00:39:29,925
to permit the operation of a child group daycare facility

844
00:39:30,845 --> 00:39:35,005
within a portion of the existing building parcel id

845
00:39:35,255 --> 00:39:39,485
3 2 0 6 2 0 0 2

846
00:39:40,415 --> 00:39:44,605
zoned MHDR as presented with the following conditions,

847
00:39:45,465 --> 00:39:47,925
one Subject to obtaining Allstate

848
00:39:47,945 --> 00:39:50,005
and town permits and inspections.

849
00:39:50,705 --> 00:39:53,445
Two. Subject to planning board site plan,

850
00:39:53,445 --> 00:39:54,765
amendment approval.

851
00:39:55,305 --> 00:39:57,125
And that concludes the reading of the motion.

852
00:39:57,325 --> 00:39:59,205
I need a second. Second

853
00:39:59,665 --> 00:40:00,665
Mr.

854
00:40:00,665 --> 00:40:02,285
Trip seconds. The motion puts it on the floor,

855
00:40:02,315 --> 00:40:04,445
therefore we move to finding a fact.

856
00:40:04,545 --> 00:40:05,545
Mr. Corbet?

857
00:40:06,625 --> 00:40:10,125
Yes. Finding a fact for case 26 dash 28. Motion

858
00:40:10,125 --> 00:40:11,125
To abbreviate.

859
00:40:12,105 --> 00:40:14,045
May I make the motion to abbreviate this

860
00:40:14,045 --> 00:40:15,085
Finding a fact this evening?

861
00:40:16,025 --> 00:40:17,725
Second please. I'll second it.

862
00:40:17,855 --> 00:40:20,925
Thank you Ms. Moore. And all in favor say aye. Aye. Aye.

863
00:40:20,985 --> 00:40:24,525
Any opposed? It's very good. Proceed Mr. Corbitt.

864
00:40:24,625 --> 00:40:27,925
All right. Heard. September 16th, 2026 The ZBA heard the

865
00:40:27,925 --> 00:40:29,685
application of Andrew de lapel

866
00:40:30,175 --> 00:40:34,445
concerning the property located at 1.5 Hood Road parcel ID

867
00:40:34,895 --> 00:40:37,925
3 2 0 6 2 dash 0 0 2

868
00:40:39,465 --> 00:40:42,645
Notice was provided to the immediate abutters per statute

869
00:40:43,185 --> 00:40:45,325
and the board received testimony from the applicant

870
00:40:45,825 --> 00:40:48,605
and legal counsel, town staff and Abutters.

871
00:40:49,345 --> 00:40:50,885
The applicant is requesting a variance

872
00:40:50,885 --> 00:40:54,005
to permit the operation of a child daycare facility with a,

873
00:40:54,005 --> 00:40:55,765
within a portion of the existing building.

874
00:40:56,425 --> 00:40:58,445
The property is located in the medium high density

875
00:40:58,445 --> 00:40:59,725
residential zoning district

876
00:40:59,725 --> 00:41:01,245
where a daycare is not a permitted use,

877
00:41:01,245 --> 00:41:02,565
therefore a variance is required.

878
00:41:03,585 --> 00:41:06,605
The applicant currently operates the Village Earning Village

879
00:41:06,615 --> 00:41:08,405
Early Learning Center in the lower level

880
00:41:08,405 --> 00:41:11,005
of the existing religious facility located on the

881
00:41:11,005 --> 00:41:12,445
abutting property at One Hood Road.

882
00:41:13,625 --> 00:41:15,685
The applicant proposes to expand operations

883
00:41:15,705 --> 00:41:18,965
by establishing a second daycare location at 1.5 Hood Road

884
00:41:18,965 --> 00:41:20,805
within the existing lower level of the building.

885
00:41:21,435 --> 00:41:23,365
This area has historically been utilized

886
00:41:23,385 --> 00:41:24,605
for educational programming

887
00:41:24,605 --> 00:41:26,165
and activities serving parishioner children.

888
00:41:26,625 --> 00:41:28,925
No significant modifications to the space are proposed

889
00:41:28,925 --> 00:41:30,365
to accommodate the daycare use.

890
00:41:31,105 --> 00:41:33,805
The property consists of approximately 1.26 acres

891
00:41:33,825 --> 00:41:37,805
and contains an existing religious facility if approved

892
00:41:38,185 --> 00:41:40,245
by the board, a site plan amendment will be required

893
00:41:40,245 --> 00:41:41,245
to be reviewed and approved

894
00:41:41,245 --> 00:41:43,365
by the planning board as part of that process.

895
00:41:43,755 --> 00:41:47,125
Site circulation and traffic patterns will be evaluated if

896
00:41:47,405 --> 00:41:48,685
approved, the appropriate permits

897
00:41:48,785 --> 00:41:50,245
and inspections will be required.

898
00:41:50,835 --> 00:41:52,285
This concludes the finding of fact.

899
00:41:52,315 --> 00:41:54,525
Does anybody have any additions or addendums to make?

900
00:41:55,715 --> 00:41:56,805
Hearing None. Thank you.

901
00:41:56,805 --> 00:41:59,485
Seeing no gestures. All in favor Moving this for a vote.

902
00:41:59,625 --> 00:42:02,325
Say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Mr. Trip?

903
00:42:04,345 --> 00:42:09,125
Yes. Mr. Dietzel? Yes. Ms. Morin? Yes. Mr. Corbett?

904
00:42:09,345 --> 00:42:09,565
Yes.

905
00:42:16,355 --> 00:42:19,095
The chair will make you unanimous by a vote of five to zero.

906
00:42:19,895 --> 00:42:22,655
Anybody agreed by this has 30 days ask this board

907
00:42:22,675 --> 00:42:23,775
for reconsideration.

908
00:42:24,065 --> 00:42:26,695
After that recourse would be to superior court

909
00:42:27,155 --> 00:42:30,175
and of course the abutter, Mr. Brown has an opportunity

910
00:42:30,175 --> 00:42:32,695
to address the planning board on traffic flow

911
00:42:32,875 --> 00:42:34,415
and safety concerns.

912
00:42:34,415 --> 00:42:36,615
Alright, gentlemen, congratulations.

913
00:42:36,635 --> 00:42:38,855
You've been approved. Have a good evening.

914
00:42:38,985 --> 00:42:39,735
Thank you. Thank you.

915
00:42:46,325 --> 00:42:50,615
Next up is case number 26 dash 1 29.

916
00:42:55,355 --> 00:42:55,855
Mrs. Meyer,

917
00:43:03,845 --> 00:43:04,375
good evening.

918
00:43:06,885 --> 00:43:10,655
Good evening. And you are here for a special exception.

919
00:43:10,765 --> 00:43:13,495
We'd ask that you read your application for the record

920
00:43:13,755 --> 00:43:16,135
and then we'll just go through some questions

921
00:43:16,245 --> 00:43:17,335
with you. Okay? Okay.

922
00:43:18,095 --> 00:43:22,215
I left my packet that I made for myself at home

923
00:43:22,355 --> 00:43:23,495
and didn't know where we were.

924
00:43:23,635 --> 00:43:27,175
So I have Are you Zoe? I'm Heidi. This is my daughter Zoe.

925
00:43:27,435 --> 00:43:29,815
All right. As her business manager I was gonna read

926
00:43:30,395 --> 00:43:31,655
for her. Is that okay?

927
00:43:31,925 --> 00:43:35,375
Yeah, we, Ms. Oland can assist you there. Thank you.

928
00:43:35,375 --> 00:43:36,615
Ms. Owen. Did you

929
00:43:36,615 --> 00:43:38,455
Want me to read like That the

930
00:43:38,455 --> 00:43:40,335
Long, long limits attached?

931
00:43:40,335 --> 00:43:42,935
Yes. I'm gonna read the question

932
00:43:43,275 --> 00:43:45,055
and your answer for each of these now.

933
00:43:45,325 --> 00:43:46,325
Okay.

934
00:43:47,365 --> 00:43:52,295
Okay. So you are both

935
00:43:52,405 --> 00:43:53,695
co-owners of this parcel.

936
00:43:55,855 --> 00:43:57,615
I own the property, yeah. Okay.

937
00:43:59,005 --> 00:44:03,375
Alright. So you are, we have the application's name,

938
00:44:03,435 --> 00:44:07,615
but you understand that you both are reside at the property.

939
00:44:08,245 --> 00:44:12,495
Okay. Alright, let's go with that and go ahead

940
00:44:12,495 --> 00:44:13,575
and read the application.

941
00:44:15,085 --> 00:44:19,615
Okay. A request for only such special exception uses

942
00:44:19,875 --> 00:44:22,815
as our specified in part A above may be granted,

943
00:44:23,335 --> 00:44:25,735
provided that the zoning board of adjustment finds favorably

944
00:44:25,735 --> 00:44:27,895
with respect to each of the following conditions.

945
00:44:28,955 --> 00:44:31,325
The applicant claims the dwelling unit

946
00:44:31,425 --> 00:44:32,805
as his or her legal address.

947
00:44:33,385 --> 00:44:36,485
Yes. I've been a resident for coming up on five years

948
00:44:36,865 --> 00:44:40,405
and Zoe has been a college student going back

949
00:44:40,405 --> 00:44:43,045
and forth between her father's home and my home

950
00:44:43,505 --> 00:44:46,405
and became a legal resident upon graduation in June.

951
00:44:48,985 --> 00:44:52,485
The residential use, oh, I guess I'm repeating.

952
00:44:52,905 --> 00:44:55,725
The residential use was established by the applicant prior

953
00:44:55,745 --> 00:44:58,285
to the filing of the request for special exception.

954
00:44:58,305 --> 00:45:01,365
It was established June 3rd, 26th by Zoe

955
00:45:01,745 --> 00:45:05,325
and November in 2021 by myself.

956
00:45:06,625 --> 00:45:09,765
The number three, the proposed home business will not be

957
00:45:09,915 --> 00:45:11,085
injurious, noxious,

958
00:45:11,085 --> 00:45:13,805
or offensive to the neighborhood by reason of omission

959
00:45:13,945 --> 00:45:16,605
of odor, fumes, dust, smoke, vibration,

960
00:45:16,655 --> 00:45:17,845
noise or other cause.

961
00:45:20,985 --> 00:45:23,765
We agree that none of those above conditions will occur

962
00:45:24,355 --> 00:45:26,485
from the presence of this business.

963
00:45:27,905 --> 00:45:30,725
The home business will be conducted within the residential

964
00:45:30,925 --> 00:45:34,645
structure or another existing structure, which is

965
00:45:35,185 --> 00:45:38,925
an outbuilding called, referred

966
00:45:38,925 --> 00:45:40,205
to as a shed.

967
00:45:41,185 --> 00:45:44,685
It is, does not exceed 25%

968
00:45:44,685 --> 00:45:47,285
of the finished living area of the home,

969
00:45:48,245 --> 00:45:49,845
including that outbuilding.

970
00:45:54,545 --> 00:45:55,565
The home business will.

971
00:45:55,845 --> 00:45:58,725
Number five, the home business will use will not change the

972
00:45:58,725 --> 00:46:01,045
residential character of the dwelling or the property.

973
00:46:02,235 --> 00:46:06,285
Essentially the, the pro, the amount of foot traffic

974
00:46:06,505 --> 00:46:10,085
or parking vehicles coming is not going

975
00:46:10,085 --> 00:46:11,365
to be very much at all.

976
00:46:11,625 --> 00:46:15,445
We expect to have one or two cars a week if that.

977
00:46:16,075 --> 00:46:17,245
It's very part-time.

978
00:46:18,205 --> 00:46:22,405
She has a job now working Mondays through Thursdays

979
00:46:22,745 --> 00:46:24,805
and so she'll be working in the evenings

980
00:46:24,865 --> 00:46:25,965
in her sewing studio.

981
00:46:28,145 --> 00:46:33,005
And we really don't expect the, the part

982
00:46:33,005 --> 00:46:35,805
of the business where it would be for sewing alterations.

983
00:46:37,195 --> 00:46:38,405
It's really supplemental

984
00:46:38,425 --> 00:46:40,245
and it's gonna be a very minor part of her business.

985
00:46:40,305 --> 00:46:42,605
So it would really just be like friends coming over

986
00:46:42,605 --> 00:46:43,965
to the house once or twice a week.

987
00:46:44,845 --> 00:46:47,085
That's all the neighbors should notice.

988
00:46:49,145 --> 00:46:51,645
Not more than one. Number six, not more than one sign

989
00:46:51,645 --> 00:46:54,085
or other advertising device will be displayed on the

990
00:46:54,285 --> 00:46:55,725
property and it will not exceed three square

991
00:46:55,795 --> 00:46:57,165
feet in surface.

992
00:46:57,225 --> 00:46:59,765
We agree to that. Number seven,

993
00:47:00,225 --> 00:47:03,205
not more than one person not residing in the dwelling unit

994
00:47:03,235 --> 00:47:05,645
will be employed on the premises at the same time.

995
00:47:07,415 --> 00:47:10,045
Total number of non-resident employees would be zero.

996
00:47:12,065 --> 00:47:14,445
She expects to just be working by herself.

997
00:47:16,305 --> 00:47:18,805
Number eight, sufficient off street parking will be

998
00:47:19,045 --> 00:47:20,685
provided for employees, clients,

999
00:47:20,745 --> 00:47:23,165
and customers where lot size permits.

1000
00:47:23,165 --> 00:47:24,285
The parking will not be

1001
00:47:25,005 --> 00:47:27,525
provided within 25 feet of the front lot line

1002
00:47:28,105 --> 00:47:30,885
nor within 10 feet of a side or rear lot line.

1003
00:47:31,605 --> 00:47:33,165
I did provide a sketch showing

1004
00:47:33,165 --> 00:47:36,285
that we would just be using the driveway.

1005
00:47:37,005 --> 00:47:38,605
The driveway can hold six cars.

1006
00:47:39,025 --> 00:47:40,525
We only have two vehicles

1007
00:47:42,915 --> 00:47:44,125
that are ever parked there.

1008
00:47:44,845 --> 00:47:47,045
Normally for the residence, just the two

1009
00:47:47,045 --> 00:47:48,085
of us that live there.

1010
00:47:49,385 --> 00:47:50,605
So there's plenty of space

1011
00:47:50,705 --> 00:47:54,005
and we don't expect to have more than two cars at a time.

1012
00:47:54,095 --> 00:47:57,405
Additional cars ever for the business purposes.

1013
00:47:58,645 --> 00:48:00,965
Number nine, not more than one home business will

1014
00:48:00,965 --> 00:48:02,005
be conducted on the property.

1015
00:48:02,305 --> 00:48:03,845
And we agree to this.

1016
00:48:08,585 --> 00:48:11,205
All right. Everybody have an image of the parcel? Yes.

1017
00:48:11,305 --> 00:48:13,605
Yes. All right. Any questions

1018
00:48:13,625 --> 00:48:16,525
for the applicant, Heidi or Zoe?

1019
00:48:17,705 --> 00:48:20,285
Yes, I, I do ask a question.

1020
00:48:20,545 --> 00:48:22,765
So you say she's already has another job,

1021
00:48:22,865 --> 00:48:25,645
so what's her hours of operation at this location?

1022
00:48:26,105 --> 00:48:27,485
It would be by appointment only.

1023
00:48:28,745 --> 00:48:30,925
But what hours are you gonna accept appointments?

1024
00:48:33,255 --> 00:48:34,605
Would you be working at midnight?

1025
00:48:35,585 --> 00:48:37,845
No, she goes to bed early.

1026
00:48:39,725 --> 00:48:42,765
I would, I I mean it could, I would expect not

1027
00:48:42,765 --> 00:48:44,325
to go past seven o'clock at night.

1028
00:48:45,915 --> 00:48:49,525
Okay. And then It could be seven days a week.

1029
00:48:49,955 --> 00:48:51,405
Okay. That was my next question.

1030
00:48:51,425 --> 00:48:53,165
How many days a week were you planning to do it?

1031
00:48:53,515 --> 00:48:56,365
Yeah, that's all I have.

1032
00:48:56,755 --> 00:48:59,245
Okay. How many days again for the record? Seven days.

1033
00:48:59,305 --> 00:49:00,405
You said she would

1034
00:49:00,405 --> 00:49:02,445
Be available seven days a week,

1035
00:49:02,545 --> 00:49:06,285
but her current job has her leaving at seven in the morning,

1036
00:49:06,305 --> 00:49:07,605
coming home at four.

1037
00:49:08,545 --> 00:49:12,045
So you know she might possibly have a af late afternoon ev

1038
00:49:12,045 --> 00:49:13,525
early evening appointment with someone.

1039
00:49:13,705 --> 00:49:14,885
Or on Friday, Saturday

1040
00:49:14,945 --> 00:49:17,685
and Sunday she would be available all day.

1041
00:49:19,175 --> 00:49:20,605
Might possibly have someone over.

1042
00:49:21,305 --> 00:49:23,205
You gotta have a range suggestion there.

1043
00:49:23,265 --> 00:49:26,765
Are we thinking like a possibility of eight to 8:00 AM

1044
00:49:26,825 --> 00:49:28,485
to 7:00 PM something like that?

1045
00:49:29,685 --> 00:49:32,285
I think we would be fine with stipulation. Yeah.

1046
00:49:32,475 --> 00:49:33,685
Okay. Very good. Eight.

1047
00:49:36,185 --> 00:49:37,705
Eight to eight. Yeah, I'm

1048
00:49:37,705 --> 00:49:38,785
Thinking prompt season.

1049
00:49:38,895 --> 00:49:39,895
Yeah.

1050
00:49:41,095 --> 00:49:44,145
Alright. Eight to eight. All very good.

1051
00:49:44,485 --> 00:49:45,865
Mr. Ani, you like that?

1052
00:49:46,405 --> 00:49:48,785
Yes, I do. Very. And I do have one follow up.

1053
00:49:50,405 --> 00:49:53,465
So this is just for the alterations, not the online.

1054
00:49:55,065 --> 00:49:57,145
I thought you said something that was about you do some sort

1055
00:49:57,145 --> 00:49:58,505
of online business also.

1056
00:49:58,505 --> 00:50:02,025
Yeah, she does. She's building a brand where she sells

1057
00:50:03,655 --> 00:50:06,545
Western clothing and accessories online.

1058
00:50:07,045 --> 00:50:09,985
And so she does participate in fashion shows

1059
00:50:11,085 --> 00:50:12,785
and occasionally needs to have models come

1060
00:50:12,785 --> 00:50:14,065
to the house to be fitted.

1061
00:50:15,205 --> 00:50:17,465
So that would be an additional,

1062
00:50:18,975 --> 00:50:20,105
does that answer your question?

1063
00:50:21,035 --> 00:50:22,145
Thank you. Alright.

1064
00:50:22,255 --> 00:50:25,305
Anybody else? Mr. Dietzel? No. Thank you Mr. Chair. Mr.

1065
00:50:26,905 --> 00:50:30,885
I understand you have a Conex,

1066
00:50:32,745 --> 00:50:33,745
I'm sorry.

1067
00:50:33,745 --> 00:50:34,565
Oh yes, yes, yes.

1068
00:50:35,105 --> 00:50:36,565
Now is this a shared driveway,

1069
00:50:37,325 --> 00:50:38,965
A shared No, they have their own

1070
00:50:39,205 --> 00:50:40,205
Driveway.

1071
00:50:40,205 --> 00:50:40,685
So the driveway is is for

1072
00:50:41,105 --> 00:50:43,405
for your half the Conex exclusively?

1073
00:50:43,665 --> 00:50:45,285
Yes. Alright, thank you.

1074
00:50:46,145 --> 00:50:49,885
All right. Mr. Henry. Mrs. Mor, I'm on.

1075
00:50:50,385 --> 00:50:53,445
All right folks, have anything else you wish to add?

1076
00:50:54,785 --> 00:50:56,645
All right, Ms. Owen,

1077
00:50:56,665 --> 00:50:58,405
you wanna help us out on your staff, please?

1078
00:50:58,535 --> 00:51:00,925
Thank you. As the applicant stated,

1079
00:51:01,015 --> 00:51:03,805
she's requesting a special exception to allow the operation

1080
00:51:03,925 --> 00:51:05,125
of a clothing alteration

1081
00:51:05,185 --> 00:51:07,365
and custom design business at the residence.

1082
00:51:07,745 --> 00:51:09,725
The property is located in the low density

1083
00:51:09,875 --> 00:51:11,445
residential zoning district.

1084
00:51:11,745 --> 00:51:13,565
The types of home businesses permitted

1085
00:51:13,565 --> 00:51:17,445
by special exception inclu in the LDR specifically include

1086
00:51:17,585 --> 00:51:19,645
artist, artisan or craftsmen.

1087
00:51:20,105 --> 00:51:24,205
The property contains an existing two family residence on a

1088
00:51:24,315 --> 00:51:26,045
0.94 acre lot.

1089
00:51:26,785 --> 00:51:30,805
The residence contains approximately 1,404 square feet

1090
00:51:30,805 --> 00:51:33,565
of living area, and the clothing business will operate

1091
00:51:33,565 --> 00:51:36,765
within an existing 192 square foot

1092
00:51:36,965 --> 00:51:38,525
detached shed on the property.

1093
00:51:39,225 --> 00:51:40,485
If signage is proposed,

1094
00:51:40,685 --> 00:51:43,525
a signed permit will be required. Thank you.

1095
00:51:44,145 --> 00:51:45,925
All right, very good. Any follow up

1096
00:51:45,925 --> 00:51:47,325
with staff from the members?

1097
00:51:47,905 --> 00:51:50,325
Seeing no gestures there all?

1098
00:51:50,325 --> 00:51:51,685
Well, let's take a call for public,

1099
00:51:51,785 --> 00:51:53,965
see if anybody has anything to add here.

1100
00:51:53,965 --> 00:51:55,205
Okay. So if anybody comes up,

1101
00:51:55,205 --> 00:51:56,525
we'll just have you a step aside

1102
00:51:56,525 --> 00:51:59,565
and you'll have an opportunity to readdress any concerns

1103
00:51:59,565 --> 00:52:00,645
that are brought forward.

1104
00:52:01,345 --> 00:52:04,245
All righty. At this time, the board asks for anybody

1105
00:52:04,265 --> 00:52:06,485
who wishes to speak in favor of this application.

1106
00:52:06,485 --> 00:52:09,885
This would be your opportunity to come forward seeing nobody

1107
00:52:10,555 --> 00:52:11,925
rise or any gestures there,

1108
00:52:11,925 --> 00:52:13,765
anybody in opposition of this application.

1109
00:52:13,765 --> 00:52:15,685
This would be your opportunity to come forward.

1110
00:52:16,785 --> 00:52:20,085
Seeing no gestures there, it was quite a lengthy

1111
00:52:20,635 --> 00:52:23,605
abut list I noticed, but no one has come

1112
00:52:23,605 --> 00:52:25,085
before the board, so we'll consider

1113
00:52:25,085 --> 00:52:26,805
that we have met the statute

1114
00:52:27,065 --> 00:52:28,765
for public input on this matter.

1115
00:52:29,555 --> 00:52:33,845
That being said, anybody else on the board have any

1116
00:52:34,005 --> 00:52:36,005
questions or you have anything else you'd like

1117
00:52:36,005 --> 00:52:37,325
to add before we deliberate

1118
00:52:38,025 --> 00:52:41,005
The family in the other half of our conduct?

1119
00:52:41,825 --> 00:52:43,885
He did. He couldn't make the meeting tonight

1120
00:52:43,885 --> 00:52:45,365
because he's working, but he did have a

1121
00:52:45,365 --> 00:52:46,365
Concern.

1122
00:52:46,365 --> 00:52:46,885
Can you speak a little closer to

1123
00:52:46,885 --> 00:52:47,885
The microphone?

1124
00:52:47,885 --> 00:52:51,005
Oh yeah, sorry. He did have a concern just about it as long

1125
00:52:51,005 --> 00:52:54,085
as it wouldn't financially affect his property in any way.

1126
00:52:54,265 --> 00:52:55,485
And I assured him

1127
00:52:55,645 --> 00:52:57,685
that she would have her own business insurance

1128
00:52:57,785 --> 00:53:02,725
so it wouldn't affect our umbrella policy in any way.

1129
00:53:02,865 --> 00:53:05,605
So, and understanding under the special exception when you

1130
00:53:05,605 --> 00:53:09,525
were to sell or move that that use would extinguish as well.

1131
00:53:09,755 --> 00:53:12,365
Okay. All right. Very good. All right.

1132
00:53:12,385 --> 00:53:15,285
If nothing else, I'll take a motion. Go into deliberation.

1133
00:53:15,495 --> 00:53:17,085
Thank you Mr. Cor Corbett.

1134
00:53:17,085 --> 00:53:18,605
Second. Mr. Trip seconds.

1135
00:53:18,905 --> 00:53:22,165
All in favor of deliberation, say aye. Aye. Any opposed?

1136
00:53:24,125 --> 00:53:25,365
Anybody wish to lead here?

1137
00:53:26,545 --> 00:53:29,085
So special exception versus the variance.

1138
00:53:29,105 --> 00:53:30,525
So obviously we gotta look at it differently.

1139
00:53:30,965 --> 00:53:32,445
This one's more of checking the boxes.

1140
00:53:32,905 --> 00:53:37,045
You know, as I go through it, the only potential concern

1141
00:53:37,045 --> 00:53:40,405
that I had was the, as we got into it with the,

1142
00:53:40,885 --> 00:53:42,565
normally when we've had a, had a couple mother-daughter

1143
00:53:42,665 --> 00:53:45,045
combos, but they've been owning the business together,

1144
00:53:45,315 --> 00:53:46,725
whereas this one was separate.

1145
00:53:46,945 --> 00:53:49,325
But being that Zoe does have this claim

1146
00:53:49,345 --> 00:53:51,565
as her legal residence, it checks all nine boxes.

1147
00:53:51,795 --> 00:53:55,205
It's very clearly allowed By definition, I think the eight

1148
00:53:55,205 --> 00:53:57,005
to eight that they offered up is more than fair.

1149
00:53:57,765 --> 00:53:59,165
I seen absolutely no issues with this.

1150
00:53:59,595 --> 00:54:02,245
Alright, very good. Anybody wish to follow up with Mr.

1151
00:54:02,475 --> 00:54:06,365
Corvets points? Seeing no gestures there, Mr. Trip?

1152
00:54:06,365 --> 00:54:07,765
You all set? Yep.

1153
00:54:08,235 --> 00:54:12,885
Okay, that being said,

1154
00:54:12,895 --> 00:54:15,445
let's structure a motion somewhere.

1155
00:54:15,485 --> 00:54:19,285
I had the motion sheet. We want to specify hours

1156
00:54:19,465 --> 00:54:20,685
and days on this.

1157
00:54:21,725 --> 00:54:24,125
Thank you very much. We have that there.

1158
00:54:24,805 --> 00:54:28,405
Subject to obtaining all State town permits and inspections.

1159
00:54:28,625 --> 00:54:30,725
Not sure if those would apply here,

1160
00:54:30,785 --> 00:54:32,365
but that's not our purview.

1161
00:54:33,265 --> 00:54:37,925
We have by appointment only seven days a week

1162
00:54:39,105 --> 00:54:42,685
and ours are sporadic but they're eight to eight.

1163
00:54:42,895 --> 00:54:46,365
8:00 AM to 8:00 PM Anybody have anything else

1164
00:54:46,385 --> 00:54:47,605
they'd like to add to that?

1165
00:54:49,335 --> 00:54:52,165
We're all set. Mr. Moore, you have all those?

1166
00:54:53,285 --> 00:54:53,685
I will.

1167
00:55:00,135 --> 00:55:03,285
Would you like him separated? So 1, 2, 3, 4, or all

1168
00:55:03,285 --> 00:55:04,285
In one?

1169
00:55:04,285 --> 00:55:05,205
All in one is fine.

1170
00:55:11,225 --> 00:55:14,285
You have by appointment you have

1171
00:55:15,255 --> 00:55:19,245
seven days a week and 8:00 AM to pm, correct?

1172
00:55:19,305 --> 00:55:22,525
Yes. Very good. Alright, motion is structured,

1173
00:55:22,525 --> 00:55:24,285
therefore we can come outta deliberation,

1174
00:55:25,155 --> 00:55:26,155
Make that motion.

1175
00:55:26,155 --> 00:55:28,805
Thank you very much Mr. Corbett. Second Mr. Trip seconds.

1176
00:55:28,985 --> 00:55:33,365
So we exit deliberation with an all in favor, say aye. Aye.

1177
00:55:33,545 --> 00:55:37,245
Aye. And you opposed? Mrs. Moore, you have a motion to read?

1178
00:55:37,725 --> 00:55:42,245
I do. Thank you. I make a motion on case number two six

1179
00:55:42,515 --> 00:55:46,885
dash 1 29 to grant a special exception

1180
00:55:46,905 --> 00:55:49,325
to the terms of Article six,

1181
00:55:49,475 --> 00:55:53,565
section 1 6 5 4 8

1182
00:55:54,745 --> 00:55:57,685
a1 of the town of dairy zoning ordinance

1183
00:55:58,385 --> 00:56:00,005
to allow the operation

1184
00:56:00,105 --> 00:56:03,645
of a clothing alteration in custom design

1185
00:56:04,085 --> 00:56:05,485
business at the residence.

1186
00:56:06,185 --> 00:56:07,245
Parcel id

1187
00:56:07,625 --> 00:56:12,365
1 0 0 6 2 0 0 3 R

1188
00:56:12,855 --> 00:56:16,925
zoned LDR as presented with the following conditions.

1189
00:56:17,545 --> 00:56:21,205
We have two. One subject to obtaining Allstate

1190
00:56:21,225 --> 00:56:23,005
and town permits and inspections.

1191
00:56:24,025 --> 00:56:25,845
Two. The business will be

1192
00:56:26,385 --> 00:56:29,005
by appointment only seven days a week

1193
00:56:29,545 --> 00:56:31,965
and between the hours of 8:00 AM

1194
00:56:32,225 --> 00:56:35,205
and 8:00 PM That concludes the reading of the motion.

1195
00:56:35,365 --> 00:56:37,005
I need a second. Second

1196
00:56:39,565 --> 00:56:40,685
Motion's on the floor.

1197
00:56:40,685 --> 00:56:45,525
Therefore we are leading to finding a fact. Mr. Corbett?

1198
00:56:45,705 --> 00:56:48,445
Yes. May I have a motion for a condensed finding fact?

1199
00:56:48,755 --> 00:56:51,845
I'll make that motion for a condensed finding effect.

1200
00:56:52,505 --> 00:56:56,405
Second motion by Mrs. Moore and second by Mr. Tripp.

1201
00:56:56,465 --> 00:57:01,125
All in favor of amend what? What did we say? Condensed.

1202
00:57:01,155 --> 00:57:02,725
Condensed. Yeah. Condensed. Abbreviated. Yeah.

1203
00:57:02,725 --> 00:57:06,405
Finding a fact. Yep. Say aye please. Aye.

1204
00:57:06,415 --> 00:57:11,165
Sorry for the chatter everybody. Any opposed?

1205
00:57:11,675 --> 00:57:15,845
Hearing none. Okay. Mr. Trip. Mr. Corbitt. I'm sorry. Thank

1206
00:57:15,845 --> 00:57:16,845
You.

1207
00:57:16,845 --> 00:57:20,125
Finding a fact for case 26 dash 1 29 heard.

1208
00:57:20,365 --> 00:57:21,765
September 16th, 2026.

1209
00:57:21,945 --> 00:57:24,885
The ZBA heard the application for a special exception

1210
00:57:25,595 --> 00:57:30,165
from Zoe Meyer at the property located at two r Richardson

1211
00:57:30,165 --> 00:57:35,045
Road parcel ID 1 0 0 6 2 dash 0 0 3

1212
00:57:35,165 --> 00:57:38,165
R The applicant is requesting a special exception

1213
00:57:38,165 --> 00:57:40,405
to allow the operation of a clothing alteration

1214
00:57:40,405 --> 00:57:42,565
and custom design business at the residence.

1215
00:57:42,985 --> 00:57:44,765
The property is located in the low density

1216
00:57:44,795 --> 00:57:46,165
residential zoning district.

1217
00:57:46,465 --> 00:57:48,285
The types of home businesses permitted

1218
00:57:48,285 --> 00:57:51,045
by a special exception in LDR specifically include artists,

1219
00:57:51,045 --> 00:57:52,165
artists and or craftsmen.

1220
00:57:52,705 --> 00:57:56,245
The property contains an existing two family residence on a

1221
00:57:56,255 --> 00:57:57,725
0.94 acre lot.

1222
00:57:58,425 --> 00:58:01,965
The residence contains approximately 1,404 square feet

1223
00:58:01,965 --> 00:58:04,285
of the living area and the clothing business will operate

1224
00:58:04,285 --> 00:58:07,405
within an existing 192 square foot detached

1225
00:58:07,405 --> 00:58:08,645
shed located on the property.

1226
00:58:09,225 --> 00:58:11,765
If the applicant chooses to move forward with a three

1227
00:58:11,785 --> 00:58:14,365
by three sign, a signed permit will be required.

1228
00:58:14,955 --> 00:58:16,285
This concludes the finding of fact.

1229
00:58:16,285 --> 00:58:18,525
Does anybody have any additions or addendums to make?

1230
00:58:18,965 --> 00:58:23,005
I just have one amendment. The date is nine 17.

1231
00:58:23,505 --> 00:58:24,505
You must have,

1232
00:58:25,215 --> 00:58:26,215
Sorry.

1233
00:58:26,215 --> 00:58:27,925
Where was that last case? We should have heard it yesterday.

1234
00:58:30,655 --> 00:58:32,045
We'll tell the, we'll be sure

1235
00:58:32,045 --> 00:58:33,365
to let the planning board go. Yeah.

1236
00:58:33,365 --> 00:58:35,285
I got a lot of promises that I'm a day overdue on them.

1237
00:58:37,385 --> 00:58:41,165
All right. Finding fact has been read any amendments to

1238
00:58:41,165 --> 00:58:42,925
that Seeing no gestures.

1239
00:58:43,025 --> 00:58:46,245
All in favor of moving this for a vote? Aye. Aye. Aye.

1240
00:58:46,245 --> 00:58:48,125
Any opposed? Mrs. Morin?

1241
00:58:48,305 --> 00:58:51,685
Aye vote Yes. Mr. Corvet? Yes. Mr. Dietzel? Yes. Mr.

1242
00:58:51,715 --> 00:58:54,925
Trip? Yes. The chair will make it unanimous by a five

1243
00:58:55,145 --> 00:58:56,405
to zero vote.

1244
00:58:56,675 --> 00:59:00,605
Anybody agree by this decision has 30 days to ask this board

1245
00:59:01,265 --> 00:59:03,485
for in reconsideration After

1246
00:59:03,485 --> 00:59:06,805
that recourse would be superior court for that opposition.

1247
00:59:07,645 --> 00:59:11,725
We wish you both luck in your endeavor. Big step here.

1248
00:59:12,665 --> 00:59:14,045
All right, have a good evening. Thank

1249
00:59:14,045 --> 00:59:15,045
You very much.

1250
00:59:16,865 --> 00:59:17,865
You can keep it.

1251
00:59:23,425 --> 00:59:25,405
Buy a belt. Go buy a belt.

1252
00:59:30,955 --> 00:59:31,955
That last one too.

1253
00:59:32,835 --> 00:59:35,405
Next case is 26 dash 1 3 0.

1254
00:59:35,425 --> 00:59:39,045
Robert Burs is the applicant owner

1255
00:59:39,745 --> 00:59:41,925
of New Hampshire Lex, LLC.

1256
00:59:47,355 --> 00:59:51,805
Good evening. Good evening.

1257
00:59:52,315 --> 00:59:56,325
Gentleman. Wish to identify yourselves. Yes.

1258
00:59:56,465 --> 01:00:00,845
Robert bge, owner of New Hampshire. Lex, LLC. Okay.

1259
01:00:02,465 --> 01:00:04,605
We ask that you read the five criteria for the record.

1260
01:00:04,625 --> 01:00:06,765
Yes. And we'll barrage you with questions. Okay?

1261
01:00:07,065 --> 01:00:11,245
Yes. The variance will not be contrary to public interest

1262
01:00:11,245 --> 01:00:14,445
because by seeking relief we will be providing additional

1263
01:00:14,445 --> 01:00:15,685
housing for the community.

1264
01:00:16,825 --> 01:00:19,045
The spirit of the ordinance is observed

1265
01:00:19,075 --> 01:00:22,365
because the two family dwelling will be within the limits

1266
01:00:22,545 --> 01:00:26,245
and setbacks of the property and will provide ample parking.

1267
01:00:27,595 --> 01:00:29,405
Substantial justice is done

1268
01:00:29,405 --> 01:00:31,285
because the existing structure

1269
01:00:31,905 --> 01:00:35,965
had an additional building attached with separate foundation

1270
01:00:36,655 --> 01:00:37,925
power kitchen.

1271
01:00:38,425 --> 01:00:42,685
So the site will hold, allow for a two-family,

1272
01:00:42,705 --> 01:00:44,325
excuse me, structure to be built.

1273
01:00:45,465 --> 01:00:48,765
The values of the surrounding property are not diminished

1274
01:00:48,765 --> 01:00:51,405
because the original site was in Major Dispair.

1275
01:00:51,865 --> 01:00:54,085
The structure will be brought up to code

1276
01:00:54,625 --> 01:00:56,205
and will be the benefit of the values

1277
01:00:56,345 --> 01:00:57,645
of the neighboring properties.

1278
01:00:59,595 --> 01:01:02,205
Literal enforcement of the precisions

1279
01:01:02,225 --> 01:01:05,125
of the ordinance was result in an unnecessary hardship.

1280
01:01:05,905 --> 01:01:07,965
The existing structure is an established

1281
01:01:08,425 --> 01:01:10,845
and situated on the property as to allow

1282
01:01:10,845 --> 01:01:13,965
for the construction of an additional dwelling.

1283
01:01:16,425 --> 01:01:19,445
The proposed use is reasonable, one due to the fact

1284
01:01:19,445 --> 01:01:22,405
that there are other multifamily properties in the area

1285
01:01:22,475 --> 01:01:25,445
with similar or lesser square footage and frontage.

1286
01:01:29,475 --> 01:01:31,925
Does that conclude? Yes.

1287
01:01:31,955 --> 01:01:35,805
Alright. You want to proceed with the unscripted version

1288
01:01:35,945 --> 01:01:37,245
and tell us what you're doing here.

1289
01:01:38,305 --> 01:01:40,645
So obviously I'm the current owner of 21 Highland.

1290
01:01:41,505 --> 01:01:44,085
It was a property that was purchased in major disrepair.

1291
01:01:45,945 --> 01:01:50,245
We are looking to continue on the re renovation

1292
01:01:50,245 --> 01:01:53,485
of the existing structure with the current footprint of

1293
01:01:53,485 --> 01:01:56,805
where it is we are looking to add.

1294
01:01:57,285 --> 01:01:58,885
There was an existing building

1295
01:01:58,885 --> 01:02:01,085
that was pretty much falling down that was attached

1296
01:02:01,085 --> 01:02:03,205
to the property, which is noted as

1297
01:02:03,345 --> 01:02:05,085
as the existing foundation on the rear.

1298
01:02:05,585 --> 01:02:08,445
We have brought that down to the foundation.

1299
01:02:08,445 --> 01:02:09,805
It was completely inhabitable

1300
01:02:11,585 --> 01:02:15,965
and we are proposing in that area to build a 30

1301
01:02:16,065 --> 01:02:19,925
by 30 additional unit, which will be attached

1302
01:02:19,945 --> 01:02:21,965
to the existing structure that we're renovating.

1303
01:02:23,715 --> 01:02:26,045
Okay. Height

1304
01:02:26,385 --> 01:02:28,885
and so on would be pretty much the same.

1305
01:02:28,885 --> 01:02:30,725
We don't have all the architecturals done for it,

1306
01:02:30,725 --> 01:02:32,325
but the height and everything would be the same

1307
01:02:33,665 --> 01:02:35,685
as the existing structure next door.

1308
01:02:36,585 --> 01:02:39,845
So are you, you're doing a 30 by 30 footprint?

1309
01:02:40,065 --> 01:02:41,885
30 by 30 footprint? Correct.

1310
01:02:42,065 --> 01:02:43,365
So you're gonna go two stories,

1311
01:02:43,595 --> 01:02:44,595
Correct?

1312
01:02:44,595 --> 01:02:46,285
That's what we propose. Currently the

1313
01:02:46,805 --> 01:02:49,805
property has a sloping lot, which we will maintain.

1314
01:02:49,985 --> 01:02:53,365
We will put a full foundation in the existing foundation

1315
01:02:53,365 --> 01:02:54,885
that is noted on the plot plan.

1316
01:02:56,435 --> 01:02:59,245
Most likely will we have to be 100% removed.

1317
01:03:01,345 --> 01:03:03,605
We will pour in the exact same cru.

1318
01:03:04,115 --> 01:03:06,805
Yeah, it it's cinderblock. That's pretty much been crumbled.

1319
01:03:07,355 --> 01:03:10,085
Well, noticing that the existing structure is on a

1320
01:03:10,085 --> 01:03:11,805
cinderblock foundation as well. Correct?

1321
01:03:11,805 --> 01:03:13,965
That that foundation there is no issues with.

1322
01:03:14,075 --> 01:03:17,445
It's the one in the back that, that was attached to it.

1323
01:03:18,275 --> 01:03:21,405
When did, when I didn't look at the purchase and sale.

1324
01:03:21,435 --> 01:03:22,805
When did you close on this price?

1325
01:03:23,005 --> 01:03:25,885
I closed on this roughly about a year ago, I would say.

1326
01:03:26,075 --> 01:03:28,205
Okay. Maybe, maybe a bit more. Sorry.

1327
01:03:28,205 --> 01:03:29,925
When, when did you raise the building?

1328
01:03:31,465 --> 01:03:34,245
We did it immediately. I mean it there, there it was,

1329
01:03:34,245 --> 01:03:35,405
the walls were falling in.

1330
01:03:35,405 --> 01:03:37,685
It was a major, we pulled permits to

1331
01:03:38,335 --> 01:03:39,605
start working on the structure

1332
01:03:40,025 --> 01:03:42,085
and we noted that we were gonna be taking that down.

1333
01:03:42,325 --> 01:03:44,005
I mean, it was to the point

1334
01:03:44,005 --> 01:03:46,445
that the floor was completely caved in in it. Okay.

1335
01:03:46,475 --> 01:03:51,445
Understanding we have some abutter input that may not be

1336
01:03:53,815 --> 01:03:56,045
completely consistent with your testimony.

1337
01:03:56,045 --> 01:03:57,445
Okay. But I'm going to jump ahead

1338
01:03:57,445 --> 01:03:59,205
and go right over to staff report.

1339
01:03:59,665 --> 01:04:02,525
Ms. Oland, you wanna help us out with some history here?

1340
01:04:03,505 --> 01:04:06,205
Yes. I'll provide you what I have for a staff report.

1341
01:04:06,205 --> 01:04:08,485
Unfortunately, our, our historic records

1342
01:04:08,585 --> 01:04:10,365
of this file are lacking,

1343
01:04:11,705 --> 01:04:13,285
but I can explain to you what we have.

1344
01:04:13,345 --> 01:04:15,245
So the applicant is requesting a variance

1345
01:04:15,245 --> 01:04:17,165
to permit a two family dwelling on a lot

1346
01:04:17,165 --> 01:04:19,285
with less than the minimum required lot

1347
01:04:19,315 --> 01:04:20,645
area per dwelling unit.

1348
01:04:21,425 --> 01:04:23,685
The, the property is located in the medium high density

1349
01:04:23,685 --> 01:04:25,765
residential zoning district, which allows

1350
01:04:25,765 --> 01:04:27,885
for the construction of a two family dwelling

1351
01:04:28,515 --> 01:04:30,045
with a required lot area

1352
01:04:30,105 --> 01:04:32,965
of 10,000 que square feet per dwelling unit,

1353
01:04:33,105 --> 01:04:35,925
or 20,000 square feet per dwelling unit when serviced

1354
01:04:35,925 --> 01:04:37,485
by municipal water and sewer.

1355
01:04:38,065 --> 01:04:42,525
The property in question contains approximately 11,325

1356
01:04:42,545 --> 01:04:46,365
square feet where 20,000 square feet is required.

1357
01:04:47,225 --> 01:04:49,085
The property is serviced by municipal water

1358
01:04:49,105 --> 01:04:51,005
and sewer if approved.

1359
01:04:51,005 --> 01:04:53,365
Appropriate permits and inspections will be required.

1360
01:04:53,465 --> 01:04:56,285
And as you mentioned chair, there is one letter in the file

1361
01:04:56,305 --> 01:04:58,045
and opposition that we received

1362
01:04:59,545 --> 01:05:00,545
The parcel.

1363
01:05:00,545 --> 01:05:01,285
This property was not.

1364
01:05:02,305 --> 01:05:06,285
I'm gonna bounce back over to you, Mr. Burge.

1365
01:05:06,295 --> 01:05:09,805
Burge the property, was it listed

1366
01:05:10,105 --> 01:05:12,005
as a two family when you purchased it,

1367
01:05:12,005 --> 01:05:13,925
or was a private sale between you and

1368
01:05:14,005 --> 01:05:15,005
Yourself?

1369
01:05:15,005 --> 01:05:16,765
It was a private sale. It was a real estate agent.

1370
01:05:16,765 --> 01:05:19,405
Whose family member I see a family property?

1371
01:05:19,515 --> 01:05:22,005
Yeah. Okay. Ms. Owen, was it listed

1372
01:05:22,105 --> 01:05:23,285
as a two family or not?

1373
01:05:24,425 --> 01:05:26,245
It is listed in our assessing record

1374
01:05:26,265 --> 01:05:27,445
as a single family. Single

1375
01:05:27,445 --> 01:05:28,445
Family.

1376
01:05:28,445 --> 01:05:30,885
Okay. Correct. Any idea how old this,

1377
01:05:31,195 --> 01:05:35,845
this extra building was and I guess to code enforcement?

1378
01:05:35,865 --> 01:05:38,405
Is there any validity to the fact that there was a kitchen

1379
01:05:38,505 --> 01:05:40,325
and electrical in the, in the building?

1380
01:05:41,265 --> 01:05:42,765
So I'm unfamiliar

1381
01:05:42,795 --> 01:05:44,565
with the original layout of the building.

1382
01:05:45,485 --> 01:05:49,125
I, I'm unable to locate or reference demo permits

1383
01:05:49,145 --> 01:05:51,205
or permits that are being mentioned this evening.

1384
01:05:52,745 --> 01:05:55,285
So I, I don't have anything on record for recent work.

1385
01:05:56,225 --> 01:05:59,245
And other than that, I can tell you

1386
01:06:01,115 --> 01:06:05,245
approximately I believe it was built in around 1900,

1387
01:06:05,425 --> 01:06:08,525
the original structure, that addition, I'm not sure if

1388
01:06:08,525 --> 01:06:11,765
that was original or constructed a later date.

1389
01:06:11,765 --> 01:06:13,725
Unfortunately we don't have the record in our file.

1390
01:06:13,955 --> 01:06:15,085
Okay. It predates

1391
01:06:15,425 --> 01:06:16,925
Now did you tell me you don't have

1392
01:06:16,935 --> 01:06:18,365
demolition permits for this?

1393
01:06:18,365 --> 01:06:22,885
Correct. Okay. How did you go about turning?

1394
01:06:22,905 --> 01:06:24,405
We have a building permit for the structure

1395
01:06:24,475 --> 01:06:27,565
that it was pretty much already fallen in.

1396
01:06:27,595 --> 01:06:30,885
Okay. I mean, to the point that the roof was compromised,

1397
01:06:33,425 --> 01:06:36,765
it, it was falling in, there was a tree right through it.

1398
01:06:36,955 --> 01:06:41,205
Okay. We removed the broken wood, the broken windows.

1399
01:06:42,065 --> 01:06:43,405
You couldn't even walk on the floor.

1400
01:06:43,465 --> 01:06:44,845
You could see right down there was a,

1401
01:06:44,925 --> 01:06:46,085
a washing machine in one area

1402
01:06:46,085 --> 01:06:47,485
that had fallen all the way to the basement.

1403
01:06:49,395 --> 01:06:50,805
Roof was caved in on it.

1404
01:06:53,595 --> 01:06:55,495
You know, we, we did that at the,

1405
01:06:55,795 --> 01:06:57,015
and we left the foundation.

1406
01:06:57,035 --> 01:06:58,815
So the foundation is intact. Yep.

1407
01:06:59,285 --> 01:07:01,215
Well, I did see but the found, but the foundation

1408
01:07:01,235 --> 01:07:03,295
and the footing is completely on the house.

1409
01:07:03,295 --> 01:07:05,095
There's no issue with it. The footing in the back there,

1410
01:07:05,525 --> 01:07:07,055
it's completely shot. So.

1411
01:07:07,445 --> 01:07:09,855
Okay. Well I did see the, I did see

1412
01:07:09,855 --> 01:07:12,655
where the foundation was on, on a drive by.

1413
01:07:12,885 --> 01:07:16,335
Yeah. Yes. Alright, well let me yield here.

1414
01:07:16,365 --> 01:07:20,015
Anybody else on the board wish to ask any questions? Mr.

1415
01:07:20,165 --> 01:07:21,165
Dietzel,

1416
01:07:25,075 --> 01:07:26,735
Why aren't you building a single family

1417
01:07:26,735 --> 01:07:27,815
house on this parcel?

1418
01:07:30,115 --> 01:07:32,535
We, we do rentals.

1419
01:07:32,995 --> 01:07:35,255
So we looked at the property,

1420
01:07:35,775 --> 01:07:37,695
I purchased the property, I purchased it privately.

1421
01:07:37,695 --> 01:07:40,015
It was never marketed as a two family.

1422
01:07:41,115 --> 01:07:43,255
We went into it, we looked at it, we looked at that.

1423
01:07:43,255 --> 01:07:45,455
It had the separate electric, it had the,

1424
01:07:46,955 --> 01:07:49,335
had more than enough parking on the front of the property.

1425
01:07:49,395 --> 01:07:52,855
The way the existing house was situated far to the left,

1426
01:07:52,885 --> 01:07:55,655
leaving this area on the right hand side.

1427
01:07:57,475 --> 01:07:58,855
We came in and we had spoke

1428
01:07:59,755 --> 01:08:01,935
and we were, you know, trying to obtain a second unit.

1429
01:08:02,865 --> 01:08:05,975
There are plenty of properties in that neighborhood

1430
01:08:06,005 --> 01:08:08,775
with larger lots that have existing two families

1431
01:08:09,595 --> 01:08:11,455
and there's also properties in that neighborhood

1432
01:08:11,525 --> 01:08:14,095
with smaller lots that have two families.

1433
01:08:15,225 --> 01:08:18,325
The way the parcel was set up, we felt

1434
01:08:18,395 --> 01:08:20,765
that we could easily put a two family in there

1435
01:08:20,825 --> 01:08:23,845
or a second unit in there, abutting the existing unit

1436
01:08:24,555 --> 01:08:26,085
that would allow for more rental housing.

1437
01:08:27,775 --> 01:08:29,845
Thank you Mr. Chair. So the existing house will be

1438
01:08:29,845 --> 01:08:31,485
remaining and we'll now be looking at three units?

1439
01:08:32,145 --> 01:08:34,925
No, the existing house will be remaining

1440
01:08:34,925 --> 01:08:36,005
exactly the way it was.

1441
01:08:36,435 --> 01:08:39,565
This unit will be the only unit that will be added to

1442
01:08:39,565 --> 01:08:41,725
that existing foundation that was in the rear.

1443
01:08:42,465 --> 01:08:43,885
So it's a total of two units.

1444
01:08:44,155 --> 01:08:45,725
Okay. So we're not adding a two family,

1445
01:08:46,025 --> 01:08:47,085
We are not adding a two family.

1446
01:08:47,225 --> 01:08:49,165
Got it. We're taking, converting this basically two,

1447
01:08:49,165 --> 01:08:50,885
taking single family per se,

1448
01:08:50,885 --> 01:08:53,045
that is on the left hand side of the lot.

1449
01:08:53,655 --> 01:08:57,285
We're taking the area in the back that had the foundation,

1450
01:08:57,545 --> 01:09:01,005
the questionable foundation that was pretty much completely

1451
01:09:01,835 --> 01:09:05,045
uninhabitable and we want to go in that same footprint.

1452
01:09:05,065 --> 01:09:08,925
We wanna put our, which is, which fits within the, the map

1453
01:09:08,925 --> 01:09:09,925
of, of, of zoning.

1454
01:09:10,585 --> 01:09:11,965
We wanna put a new footing in there.

1455
01:09:11,985 --> 01:09:13,445
We want to do a port foundation

1456
01:09:13,585 --> 01:09:15,245
and we want to attach the two properties.

1457
01:09:15,825 --> 01:09:17,805
We want to keep the roof lines at the same level.

1458
01:09:18,065 --> 01:09:19,285
Got it. Thank you. Thank you.

1459
01:09:19,705 --> 01:09:22,645
Did you say that there was an existing electric

1460
01:09:22,645 --> 01:09:23,765
meter for this bus?

1461
01:09:23,765 --> 01:09:25,605
There was an existing electric meter in there. Yeah.

1462
01:09:25,605 --> 01:09:27,445
So there were two electric meters on the port,

1463
01:09:27,585 --> 01:09:28,645
Two electric meters in there.

1464
01:09:28,645 --> 01:09:30,285
There was, when we purchased it,

1465
01:09:30,285 --> 01:09:31,685
there was a washer and dryer.

1466
01:09:32,175 --> 01:09:35,925
Looks to be a a, a sink, an old cast iron sink.

1467
01:09:36,115 --> 01:09:39,645
Unfortunately, so much has caved,

1468
01:09:39,775 --> 01:09:42,165
caved back in on that back of that property. Okay.

1469
01:09:43,105 --> 01:09:44,285
The curb cut is in the middle

1470
01:09:44,285 --> 01:09:45,565
of the parcel, is that correct?

1471
01:09:46,955 --> 01:09:49,565
Correct. It's a, it's a very light curb cut

1472
01:09:49,565 --> 01:09:51,605
to say the least, but yes.

1473
01:09:52,745 --> 01:09:56,885
And that would be your access for both units for that,

1474
01:09:57,035 --> 01:09:58,485
that one location, correct?

1475
01:09:58,585 --> 01:10:00,765
Yes, because this, the, the house is kind of proud

1476
01:10:00,765 --> 01:10:02,805
to the street, these existing porch and so on.

1477
01:10:03,475 --> 01:10:06,525
This, as you can see, it's much further back with it.

1478
01:10:06,585 --> 01:10:09,405
So we would utilize that front area for parking. Okay.

1479
01:10:09,425 --> 01:10:10,925
We, we we're gonna provide two parking

1480
01:10:10,975 --> 01:10:12,205
spots per dwelling unit.

1481
01:10:13,915 --> 01:10:15,485
We'd be constructing if we're allowed,

1482
01:10:15,485 --> 01:10:17,285
we'd be constructing a two bedroom unit there.

1483
01:10:18,075 --> 01:10:20,365
Okay. Mrs. Moore,

1484
01:10:21,185 --> 01:10:24,485
On the GSI shows there's only been one bathroom.

1485
01:10:24,865 --> 01:10:27,005
So if it was two units they would probably

1486
01:10:27,005 --> 01:10:28,165
have a second bathroom.

1487
01:10:28,715 --> 01:10:30,525
Have you found anything there that

1488
01:10:31,065 --> 01:10:32,065
Was supported?

1489
01:10:32,065 --> 01:10:33,965
There was a, there was a bathroom, so it was a kitchen area.

1490
01:10:34,585 --> 01:10:37,405
And what looks to be where the laundry was, where the washer

1491
01:10:37,405 --> 01:10:39,085
and dryer had fallen through looks to be.

1492
01:10:39,225 --> 01:10:41,045
That's where a bathroom was. Okay.

1493
01:10:41,485 --> 01:10:43,805
I, I did not find, I find the remnants of a sink.

1494
01:10:44,205 --> 01:10:45,765
I did not find the remnants of a toilet.

1495
01:10:46,675 --> 01:10:47,925
Okay. Thank you.

1496
01:10:47,975 --> 01:10:48,605
Thank God.

1497
01:10:52,315 --> 01:10:54,165
Alright, Mr.

1498
01:10:54,235 --> 01:10:55,235
Trip, you all set.

1499
01:10:58,725 --> 01:11:01,625
So you basically, you're replacing the,

1500
01:11:04,485 --> 01:11:07,385
the, the house that was demoed in, in kind,

1501
01:11:08,215 --> 01:11:10,145
Basically we're looking to, we're, we're looking

1502
01:11:10,165 --> 01:11:11,585
to stay within that footprint.

1503
01:11:12,005 --> 01:11:13,805
We went a little further back in the back.

1504
01:11:13,805 --> 01:11:16,005
We have a tremendous amount of land. It's a hill.

1505
01:11:16,005 --> 01:11:18,085
It drops off, it just goes and goes.

1506
01:11:19,265 --> 01:11:20,645
We were looking to box it off.

1507
01:11:21,745 --> 01:11:25,005
So there was a little addition to the back of the area

1508
01:11:25,005 --> 01:11:26,925
that scored out as existing foundation.

1509
01:11:27,385 --> 01:11:30,645
So we are not in the exact footprint of where

1510
01:11:32,505 --> 01:11:34,765
the remnants which are currently there still

1511
01:11:35,225 --> 01:11:36,565
of the footing are.

1512
01:11:38,145 --> 01:11:40,725
We have not removed any, any of the concrete.

1513
01:11:41,585 --> 01:11:43,365
Mr. Tripp, do you see the map on your

1514
01:11:43,365 --> 01:11:44,365
Screen?

1515
01:11:44,365 --> 01:11:47,805
I do. Okay. Yep. I'm just saying that,

1516
01:11:48,625 --> 01:11:49,925
So we kept our sideline,

1517
01:11:50,025 --> 01:11:52,645
we kept our sideline towards the neighbor on the right.

1518
01:11:54,865 --> 01:11:57,925
We stayed in that and then we did did, we are proposing

1519
01:11:57,925 --> 01:11:59,525
to fill a little bit of the back area

1520
01:12:00,185 --> 01:12:01,325
or add to the back area.

1521
01:12:02,665 --> 01:12:06,445
So for you to be compliant with the, the zoning ordinance,

1522
01:12:06,465 --> 01:12:08,925
you're short like a nine,

1523
01:12:11,385 --> 01:12:14,035
9,000 square feet to,

1524
01:12:14,855 --> 01:12:16,075
That's basically Yeah, it's, it's

1525
01:12:16,305 --> 01:12:17,305
What you're asking for.

1526
01:12:17,305 --> 01:12:19,675
Correct. You're asking for a a, a variance

1527
01:12:19,675 --> 01:12:22,195
of a size variance.

1528
01:12:22,335 --> 01:12:23,335
Is that,

1529
01:12:23,855 --> 01:12:24,915
I'm sorry again, Mr. Drip.

1530
01:12:24,915 --> 01:12:27,195
I, is it, is it size variance what they're asking for?

1531
01:12:27,935 --> 01:12:30,955
No, they're asking for a two family where there,

1532
01:12:31,205 --> 01:12:35,315
where there was tip essentially not a two family listed

1533
01:12:35,585 --> 01:12:38,835
Less than the minimum required lot area per dwelling unit.

1534
01:12:38,985 --> 01:12:41,315
Yeah. So each dwelling unit needs

1535
01:12:41,315 --> 01:12:42,555
to have 10,000 square feet.

1536
01:12:43,045 --> 01:12:46,635
We've got a total of 11,325 spread out

1537
01:12:46,945 --> 01:12:47,995
over what would be two.

1538
01:12:48,375 --> 01:12:49,595
So that's what we're here for today.

1539
01:12:49,805 --> 01:12:52,595
Thank you Mr. Corbet. Now do you intend on

1540
01:12:58,135 --> 01:12:59,435
making the, the second

1541
01:13:01,075 --> 01:13:02,835
building accessible from the first building?

1542
01:13:04,105 --> 01:13:06,045
No, they would have, they would have a,

1543
01:13:06,515 --> 01:13:09,565
they would have a wall that they would share that would be,

1544
01:13:09,785 --> 01:13:11,845
you know, fire coated and so on.

1545
01:13:12,265 --> 01:13:14,845
But they would both be separate, separate units.

1546
01:13:16,865 --> 01:13:20,205
So in, they would be occupied by two separate families.

1547
01:13:20,205 --> 01:13:23,915
There wouldn't be any, it's not like an A

1548
01:13:23,915 --> 01:13:25,115
DU, it would be a separate.

1549
01:13:26,375 --> 01:13:27,515
Now you mentioned that there's,

1550
01:13:27,515 --> 01:13:30,395
there's other lots in the area that

1551
01:13:31,105 --> 01:13:35,115
have two family dwellings.

1552
01:13:35,615 --> 01:13:37,715
Are any, do any of those

1553
01:13:38,645 --> 01:13:40,635
other lots have a situation

1554
01:13:40,635 --> 01:13:41,955
where they're short the amount of

1555
01:13:43,005 --> 01:13:44,005
There was many.

1556
01:13:44,005 --> 01:13:46,155
There was Dave, my operations manager had gone around

1557
01:13:46,155 --> 01:13:47,155
and looked in the neighborhood.

1558
01:13:48,285 --> 01:13:50,195
There was, I think there was one of 'em

1559
01:13:50,195 --> 01:13:52,915
that was a two family that was under 9,500 s squared.

1560
01:13:52,915 --> 01:13:55,475
There was, there was multiple, there was,

1561
01:13:55,475 --> 01:13:57,595
there was multiple in that vicinity

1562
01:13:58,065 --> 01:13:59,835
that were larger of course.

1563
01:14:00,095 --> 01:14:02,275
And there were multiple that were small.

1564
01:14:03,785 --> 01:14:07,795
Alright. Thank you. You need any technical

1565
01:14:07,795 --> 01:14:08,995
reflection for that Mr.

1566
01:14:09,105 --> 01:14:12,645
Trip? Are you all set? No. Alright. Mr. Henry.

1567
01:14:12,785 --> 01:14:16,005
All set. Mr. Chair, if I just might Mr. Dietzel continue.

1568
01:14:18,905 --> 01:14:20,525
The reason I asked my question is, I,

1569
01:14:20,685 --> 01:14:23,565
I was focusing on the hardship criterion

1570
01:14:24,185 --> 01:14:28,285
and five A says for purposes of this

1571
01:14:29,165 --> 01:14:32,685
subparagraph unnecessary hardship means that owing

1572
01:14:32,685 --> 01:14:34,885
to special conditions of the property

1573
01:14:34,885 --> 01:14:38,365
that distinguish it from other properties in the area,

1574
01:14:41,345 --> 01:14:43,925
the proposed use is a reasonable one.

1575
01:14:44,185 --> 01:14:48,525
And you respond due to the fact that there are other

1576
01:14:50,155 --> 01:14:54,565
multifamily properties in the area with similar

1577
01:14:54,865 --> 01:14:58,645
or lesser square footage and frontage.

1578
01:14:59,105 --> 01:15:03,805
So you, you're, you're proposing that the special condition

1579
01:15:03,805 --> 01:15:08,645
of your property, which renders its use a reasonable one,

1580
01:15:08,705 --> 01:15:11,165
is that the, there are other properties in the

1581
01:15:11,365 --> 01:15:13,085
vicinity that are already

1582
01:15:13,955 --> 01:15:15,805
What we were two families. What I was basically saying,

1583
01:15:15,805 --> 01:15:16,805
What is this special condition

1584
01:15:16,865 --> 01:15:18,205
May maybe I I didn't put it

1585
01:15:18,205 --> 01:15:19,245
in there correctly, I apologize.

1586
01:15:19,745 --> 01:15:21,765
But basically what I, what I was saying is

1587
01:15:22,555 --> 01:15:26,645
that not every two family in that vicinity,

1588
01:15:26,665 --> 01:15:30,085
and again, i i has the 20,000

1589
01:15:30,545 --> 01:15:31,965
square feet that was necessary.

1590
01:15:32,465 --> 01:15:36,485
So we weren't looking to put a two family house into an area

1591
01:15:36,915 --> 01:15:39,205
that everybody had over 20,000 square feet.

1592
01:15:39,885 --> 01:15:41,325
That's what I was trying to state in that,

1593
01:15:41,765 --> 01:15:43,405
I don't know if I answered it correctly,

1594
01:15:45,065 --> 01:15:47,565
but the way the house sat on the lot, the current house

1595
01:15:47,565 --> 01:15:50,765
where there were the, the additional meter was there

1596
01:15:51,135 --> 01:15:53,365
where the signs of the, the, the bathroom

1597
01:15:53,505 --> 01:15:56,885
and to a certain point, I didn't say the lab,

1598
01:15:56,985 --> 01:15:58,925
but to a certain point was there.

1599
01:15:59,465 --> 01:16:02,605
And the way the property sat with the parking out front was

1600
01:16:02,635 --> 01:16:04,485
what got me into looking into this.

1601
01:16:04,985 --> 01:16:06,605
So that's when we went through the neighborhood

1602
01:16:06,605 --> 01:16:09,405
and we looked at other, other houses to see if, if,

1603
01:16:10,065 --> 01:16:12,685
So the special condition of the property is the fact

1604
01:16:12,685 --> 01:16:14,925
that you already have the electrical meter. And

1605
01:16:15,705 --> 01:16:18,325
Yes, in, in doing multi-family housing, I own a lot

1606
01:16:18,325 --> 01:16:20,805
of multi-family rentals, dairy in many other communities.

1607
01:16:20,965 --> 01:16:24,565
And I just felt that this would be a spot that the impact

1608
01:16:25,495 --> 01:16:27,405
would be light to put another unit

1609
01:16:27,505 --> 01:16:28,925
and it would fit in there perfectly

1610
01:16:29,145 --> 01:16:30,965
and still allow us to have ample parking.

1611
01:16:31,465 --> 01:16:34,405
And what brought me onto that was the electric meter

1612
01:16:35,145 --> 01:16:36,965
and the separation.

1613
01:16:37,585 --> 01:16:38,805
The separation of the units.

1614
01:16:40,075 --> 01:16:43,605
Okay. Thank you Mr. Chair. All set? Yep. What's the

1615
01:16:43,605 --> 01:16:46,205
Size of the existing foundation on that second unit?

1616
01:16:48,395 --> 01:16:52,005
Exactly. To, I don't, I don't have that exactly to scale.

1617
01:16:52,105 --> 01:16:53,485
We were proposing 30 by 30.

1618
01:16:53,505 --> 01:16:56,125
If I had to guess, I would say in the back,

1619
01:16:57,305 --> 01:17:00,685
we were at least eight, eight feet by 30 feet right there

1620
01:17:00,685 --> 01:17:04,965
that we would, we would be adding if, if that needs to be,

1621
01:17:05,505 --> 01:17:07,125
and again, there's a tremendous amount

1622
01:17:07,125 --> 01:17:08,845
of land going down in the back of the property.

1623
01:17:09,545 --> 01:17:12,645
If that needed to be brought up, you know,

1624
01:17:12,645 --> 01:17:14,445
we could finish some of the basement space there.

1625
01:17:14,445 --> 01:17:15,605
We're gonna put a new foundation.

1626
01:17:15,625 --> 01:17:17,965
It is a walkout so it would have safety egress

1627
01:17:19,465 --> 01:17:20,765
if it was a concern of the,

1628
01:17:21,835 --> 01:17:24,125
It's i'll, I'll be honest, it's not, it might be

1629
01:17:26,495 --> 01:17:28,005
going more deliberate, Mr.

1630
01:17:28,005 --> 01:17:29,925
Chair, which is where I'm leaning,

1631
01:17:29,925 --> 01:17:31,645
where I feel like the questions are leaning.

1632
01:17:32,595 --> 01:17:34,445
What it seems the hardship is here is

1633
01:17:34,445 --> 01:17:36,165
that the property just can't be used

1634
01:17:37,345 --> 01:17:39,005
as a rental at the most beneficial.

1635
01:17:39,065 --> 01:17:41,285
It can be used with the existing house, it can be used

1636
01:17:41,505 --> 01:17:44,325
as the residential property as it currently exists.

1637
01:17:45,505 --> 01:17:47,085
But in order to fully maximize it

1638
01:17:47,085 --> 01:17:48,125
is where we need the multifamily.

1639
01:17:48,185 --> 01:17:50,125
And that's, I just have a very tough time with any

1640
01:17:50,125 --> 01:17:53,485
of the five criteria where we're just adding,

1641
01:17:54,295 --> 01:17:56,125
we're really just bringing it out of compliance,

1642
01:17:56,125 --> 01:17:59,005
completely out of compliance for no other reason

1643
01:18:00,235 --> 01:18:01,245
than just to rent it.

1644
01:18:03,765 --> 01:18:04,925
I don't really have a question with that,

1645
01:18:05,145 --> 01:18:07,245
but I guess I just want to say that that's where I'm stuck.

1646
01:18:07,755 --> 01:18:11,125
Okay. And the applicant has an opportunity to,

1647
01:18:11,905 --> 01:18:15,405
to substantiate his claim based on your comment, Mr.

1648
01:18:16,225 --> 01:18:19,285
Corbet. Mr. Burge, you're welcome

1649
01:18:19,345 --> 01:18:21,125
to elaborate on that. On that

1650
01:18:21,295 --> 01:18:23,925
Again, the signs that the signs

1651
01:18:24,005 --> 01:18:28,765
of a separate electric meter, the signs of overlap

1652
01:18:28,945 --> 01:18:31,125
of plumbing kitchens

1653
01:18:31,125 --> 01:18:33,365
and so on, the separation of the unit

1654
01:18:35,855 --> 01:18:38,765
bring me to believe that it, it was utilized I

1655
01:18:39,305 --> 01:18:41,845
to more than a single family at one point.

1656
01:18:43,995 --> 01:18:46,205
That that's what got us going down the road more

1657
01:18:46,205 --> 01:18:48,485
or less of proposing a two family house.

1658
01:18:53,305 --> 01:18:55,405
And like I said, the comparison to the neighborhood

1659
01:18:55,985 --> 01:18:58,645
of other two family houses that are existing

1660
01:18:58,915 --> 01:19:01,245
with neighbors on both sides, neighbors behind,

1661
01:19:01,525 --> 01:19:04,525
neighbors in front that are operating as two family houses

1662
01:19:07,425 --> 01:19:09,805
was, was what brought us to this.

1663
01:19:11,425 --> 01:19:13,605
And losing a large percentage

1664
01:19:14,465 --> 01:19:16,165
of the existing foundation in the back,

1665
01:19:16,165 --> 01:19:18,285
that's pretty much non buildable at this point

1666
01:19:18,285 --> 01:19:20,925
because of the deterioration of what,

1667
01:19:21,065 --> 01:19:22,645
how it was when we purchased the property.

1668
01:19:23,745 --> 01:19:25,645
So if we were gonna put that back, that's

1669
01:19:26,635 --> 01:19:28,365
what we were looking obviously to put it back

1670
01:19:28,385 --> 01:19:29,845
as of the dwelling unit

1671
01:19:30,545 --> 01:19:33,725
As the courts would, it would require the similar,

1672
01:19:33,905 --> 01:19:37,965
the familiarity of board members being familiar

1673
01:19:38,045 --> 01:19:41,045
with neighborhoods in their community.

1674
01:19:41,185 --> 01:19:44,925
The, the applicant is expressing

1675
01:19:44,995 --> 01:19:48,125
that essentially this neighborhood is peppered with

1676
01:19:48,675 --> 01:19:50,285
multifamily properties.

1677
01:19:50,285 --> 01:19:52,285
Which I, I know that to be true.

1678
01:19:54,585 --> 01:19:59,285
The question it, it's not in my view, it's not that,

1679
01:19:59,705 --> 01:20:03,125
the fact that there's other properties on the street

1680
01:20:03,155 --> 01:20:05,525
that are multifamily that said yes,

1681
01:20:05,665 --> 01:20:07,245
you can go ahead and give this.

1682
01:20:08,305 --> 01:20:12,445
So I'm just kind of answering to your question Mr.

1683
01:20:13,145 --> 01:20:16,605
Corbet and to I guess Mr. Dietzel as well.

1684
01:20:18,985 --> 01:20:21,325
You know, it really comes down to the, I guess

1685
01:20:21,465 --> 01:20:23,525
for me it's gonna come down to the parcel

1686
01:20:25,385 --> 01:20:27,125
and Ms.

1687
01:20:27,175 --> 01:20:28,845
Oland, if this had the square footage,

1688
01:20:28,995 --> 01:20:30,165
they wouldn't be here right now.

1689
01:20:30,165 --> 01:20:31,645
Correct? Correct. Yes. Yeah. Okay.

1690
01:20:32,625 --> 01:20:35,645
So anyway, just I'm a little spit balling there Mr.

1691
01:20:35,675 --> 01:20:38,845
Corbett as well. Mr. Trip, you have anything?

1692
01:20:40,165 --> 01:20:44,085
I not presently. Alright. Mrs. Moore, you all set?

1693
01:20:44,685 --> 01:20:45,805
I am. Thank you. Okay.

1694
01:20:47,545 --> 01:20:49,605
You gentlemen have anything else you want to give us?

1695
01:20:51,465 --> 01:20:53,085
One thing I did wanna say is, you know,

1696
01:20:53,085 --> 01:20:56,085
what we are proposing to do does meet the setbacks?

1697
01:20:58,355 --> 01:21:00,325
Well the new structure does. Yeah. Yeah.

1698
01:21:00,545 --> 01:21:02,645
The existing structure certainly does not.

1699
01:21:02,815 --> 01:21:06,005
Right. And we're not, and we're not taking down porches,

1700
01:21:06,055 --> 01:21:07,765
we're not looking to add to that.

1701
01:21:07,815 --> 01:21:08,925
We're not dormering,

1702
01:21:10,385 --> 01:21:13,845
but Correct the, the new D, the proposed new dwelling unit.

1703
01:21:14,285 --> 01:21:17,005
Attached dwelling unit would meet all set setbacks.

1704
01:21:17,675 --> 01:21:20,925
Okay. Alright, well let's make a call

1705
01:21:21,125 --> 01:21:22,645
to public and see what happens.

1706
01:21:22,925 --> 01:21:26,645
I just wanna make sure that on the record we do have a,

1707
01:21:29,045 --> 01:21:32,285
a letter rather lengthy letter

1708
01:21:32,465 --> 01:21:35,725
and I don't know if this individual is here tonight,

1709
01:21:35,725 --> 01:21:38,405
but it's a seven page letter objecting to this

1710
01:21:38,585 --> 01:21:42,805
and that is submitted by the owner at 21 Highland Ave.

1711
01:21:42,805 --> 01:21:45,405
Alright. We're not gonna read the seven pages,

1712
01:21:45,495 --> 01:21:46,765
we're gonna wait and see if she's there.

1713
01:21:46,765 --> 01:21:48,205
20 there. 21 We're 21.

1714
01:21:48,625 --> 01:21:51,205
I'm sorry. 20. Right. Okay. You're right.

1715
01:21:51,805 --> 01:21:53,925
I did the same thing when I drove by it. Okay.

1716
01:21:53,925 --> 01:21:56,165
Looking on the wall. Wrong side of the street.

1717
01:21:57,405 --> 01:21:58,845
'cause I'm going by memory. Right.

1718
01:21:58,845 --> 01:22:00,565
Which might can't remember what I had

1719
01:22:00,565 --> 01:22:02,605
for breakfast this morning, but that's another problem.

1720
01:22:03,985 --> 01:22:08,965
So with that being said, we will, the board notes the

1721
01:22:09,715 --> 01:22:13,805
written butter at, at 20 Highland Ave.

1722
01:22:14,565 --> 01:22:17,565
Mr. Trip, you have that letter? I do. You've reviewed it.

1723
01:22:17,845 --> 01:22:22,725
I have Mr. Moore as well. Yes. Mr. Corbet? Yes. Mr. Dietzel.

1724
01:22:22,905 --> 01:22:24,925
Yes. Alright, so everybody's reviewed that letter.

1725
01:22:24,935 --> 01:22:27,445
We're not gonna read it in it in its entirety,

1726
01:22:27,545 --> 01:22:30,845
but it doesn't object to this for several reasons.

1727
01:22:32,115 --> 01:22:35,325
That letter will stay in the file as a record. Okay.

1728
01:22:35,575 --> 01:22:39,645
Understood. For reference at some later point that aside,

1729
01:22:39,695 --> 01:22:41,565
let's make a call to public, see what happens.

1730
01:22:41,705 --> 01:22:44,565
You'll have an opportunity to rebut anything that comes up.

1731
01:22:44,635 --> 01:22:47,485
Okay? Sure. Anybody who wishes to speak in favor

1732
01:22:47,505 --> 01:22:49,525
of this application, this would be your opportunity

1733
01:22:49,625 --> 01:22:53,165
to come forward seeing no one rise in the room,

1734
01:22:53,595 --> 01:22:56,085
anybody in opposition to this application,

1735
01:22:56,115 --> 01:22:57,365
this would be your opportunity.

1736
01:22:57,365 --> 01:22:59,885
Alright gentlemen, we'll have you can have you sit over

1737
01:22:59,885 --> 01:23:00,965
in that first row there.

1738
01:23:00,965 --> 01:23:03,565
Sure problem. And you'll have a chance to come back up

1739
01:23:03,565 --> 01:23:06,005
and we'll listen to what this lady has

1740
01:23:06,005 --> 01:23:09,885
to say. Good

1741
01:23:09,885 --> 01:23:10,885
Evening.

1742
01:23:10,885 --> 01:23:12,405
Evening everybody. My name is Relle La Cross.

1743
01:23:12,705 --> 01:23:15,125
Oh you are the I am the directive lady. Seven

1744
01:23:15,125 --> 01:23:16,285
Page letter across the street.

1745
01:23:16,795 --> 01:23:18,685
Very good. I am the owner of OCC chair.

1746
01:23:18,685 --> 01:23:19,885
If we could have proximity to the microphone

1747
01:23:19,885 --> 01:23:20,885
Please.

1748
01:23:20,885 --> 01:23:21,245
I'm sorry. I'm the owner

1749
01:23:21,305 --> 01:23:25,805
and occupant for the last 22 years at 20 Highland Ave.

1750
01:23:27,425 --> 01:23:29,165
You have my letter. You do.

1751
01:23:29,185 --> 01:23:32,325
So I am going to try to be very brief. Thank you.

1752
01:23:33,385 --> 01:23:35,925
I'm asking the board to determine whether this application

1753
01:23:36,525 --> 01:23:39,125
actually satisfies each of the five variants requirements

1754
01:23:39,385 --> 01:23:42,765
before voting The public interest.

1755
01:23:43,145 --> 01:23:45,085
The applicant's answer is essentially

1756
01:23:45,115 --> 01:23:47,125
that another unit provides housing.

1757
01:23:48,385 --> 01:23:51,805
Why does the general benefit establish that added dentist

1758
01:23:52,745 --> 01:23:54,725
on this particular undersized lot

1759
01:23:55,425 --> 01:23:56,885
is in the public's interest.

1760
01:23:57,315 --> 01:24:01,525
What evidence addresses parking, traffic, driveway, safety,

1761
01:24:02,165 --> 01:24:05,485
drainage, privacy, light and neighborhood character.

1762
01:24:05,905 --> 01:24:08,925
For the record, this neighborhood is over a

1763
01:24:08,925 --> 01:24:10,045
century and a half old.

1764
01:24:10,625 --> 01:24:13,965
My home is one of two of the oldest homes on

1765
01:24:13,965 --> 01:24:16,765
that street dating back to 1880.

1766
01:24:17,385 --> 01:24:21,605
The remaining homes as Mr. Mr.

1767
01:24:22,415 --> 01:24:26,605
Burge has suggested that are in fact zoned as two families.

1768
01:24:26,605 --> 01:24:29,445
There are exactly four as you've read in that letter.

1769
01:24:29,755 --> 01:24:31,685
There's one four family home.

1770
01:24:32,095 --> 01:24:36,165
Those homes, including 21 Highland Ave, were built in 1900.

1771
01:24:37,025 --> 01:24:40,205
The assessor's office does not have anything on

1772
01:24:40,205 --> 01:24:41,485
21 Highland Ave.

1773
01:24:41,485 --> 01:24:46,445
That states that the building that was demolished last fall

1774
01:24:47,745 --> 01:24:49,605
was an accessory dwelling.

1775
01:24:49,625 --> 01:24:52,525
It is listed as a base dwelling with no accessories,

1776
01:24:52,525 --> 01:24:54,685
meaning there was no water listed

1777
01:24:55,345 --> 01:24:59,045
and no electricity, kitchen or bathrooms.

1778
01:25:01,185 --> 01:25:02,765
The spirit of the ordinance,

1779
01:25:03,265 --> 01:25:06,205
the application says the project will meet setbacks

1780
01:25:06,205 --> 01:25:07,445
and provide ample parking.

1781
01:25:08,375 --> 01:25:10,165
Where is the proposed plan?

1782
01:25:10,165 --> 01:25:13,365
Proving that DE's variance checklist calls

1783
01:25:13,425 --> 01:25:16,165
for proposed building dimensions, distances

1784
01:25:16,165 --> 01:25:19,125
to property lines and a generalized floor plan.

1785
01:25:19,585 --> 01:25:22,885
The filer reviewed shows the existing house and foundation,

1786
01:25:23,385 --> 01:25:26,885
but no proposed footprint, footprint, floor plan,

1787
01:25:27,305 --> 01:25:30,725
height stories, parking layout or driveway layout.

1788
01:25:32,185 --> 01:25:34,085
Number three, substantial justice.

1789
01:25:34,705 --> 01:25:37,885
The applicant relies on former attached structure,

1790
01:25:38,615 --> 01:25:41,925
foundation, power, and alleged kitchen.

1791
01:25:42,665 --> 01:25:44,845
The assessor still classifies 21

1792
01:25:45,045 --> 01:25:46,245
Highland as a single family.

1793
01:25:46,505 --> 01:25:50,125
One occupancy. Was that area ever legally approved

1794
01:25:50,225 --> 01:25:51,325
as a second dwelling?

1795
01:25:51,865 --> 01:25:54,005
If not, why is an old foundation

1796
01:25:55,095 --> 01:25:58,125
which had an established building intact

1797
01:25:59,505 --> 01:26:00,965
before it was taken down?

1798
01:26:04,145 --> 01:26:06,645
Why is it, why?

1799
01:26:06,825 --> 01:26:07,845
Why does the old foundation

1800
01:26:07,845 --> 01:26:09,045
or form a kitchen establish

1801
01:26:09,115 --> 01:26:11,605
that justice requires a new second unit?

1802
01:26:12,465 --> 01:26:16,125
The surrounding property values repairing a

1803
01:26:16,765 --> 01:26:19,245
deteriorated property is definitely positive.

1804
01:26:20,185 --> 01:26:23,405
But that is different from providing pro proving

1805
01:26:23,435 --> 01:26:27,005
that adding a second dwelling on this undersized lot will

1806
01:26:27,005 --> 01:26:28,485
not diminish surrounding values.

1807
01:26:29,275 --> 01:26:33,325
What evidence addresses the added parking traffic unknown

1808
01:26:33,605 --> 01:26:36,565
building mass and direct impact on the abutters?

1809
01:26:37,705 --> 01:26:39,885
The unnecessary, the unnecessary

1810
01:26:40,445 --> 01:26:41,845
hardship is the key question here.

1811
01:26:42,605 --> 01:26:46,765
RSA 6 7 4 33 requires special conditions

1812
01:26:46,765 --> 01:26:49,365
of this property that distinguish it from others.

1813
01:26:49,955 --> 01:26:52,845
What is this special condition of 21 Highland Ave?

1814
01:26:53,225 --> 01:26:56,285
An old foundation, a desire for a second unit

1815
01:26:56,625 --> 01:27:00,085
or century old duplexes elsewhere do not then

1816
01:27:00,185 --> 01:27:02,925
by themselves identify the hardship of this parcel.

1817
01:27:04,105 --> 01:27:08,565
The frontage I'm hoping will be answered before voting.

1818
01:27:09,345 --> 01:27:13,565
The applicant's own letter says that the lot has 74.42 feet

1819
01:27:13,625 --> 01:27:18,005
of frontage where 100 is required, yet the notice appears

1820
01:27:18,005 --> 01:27:20,125
to seek only a lot area relief.

1821
01:27:20,795 --> 01:27:23,925
Does this proposal also require a frontage variance?

1822
01:27:24,945 --> 01:27:28,005
If not, what provision allows the two family use

1823
01:27:28,155 --> 01:27:30,165
with 74.42 feet

1824
01:27:31,945 --> 01:27:33,925
old duplex comparisons?

1825
01:27:34,545 --> 01:27:38,085
The four Highland Avenue properties classified by assessing

1826
01:27:38,105 --> 01:27:41,805
as two family were built between 1,919 11.

1827
01:27:42,585 --> 01:27:45,685
Do we know when and how those uses became legal?

1828
01:27:46,195 --> 01:27:49,245
They're nowhere to be found in the assessor's tax records,

1829
01:27:49,495 --> 01:27:51,165
which means that they're archived.

1830
01:27:51,335 --> 01:27:54,085
Again, our neighborhood is a century

1831
01:27:54,265 --> 01:27:57,045
and a half old, as are most of those homes.

1832
01:27:57,905 --> 01:27:59,205
Our century old laws

1833
01:27:59,345 --> 01:28:01,485
and non-conforming properties being used

1834
01:28:01,505 --> 01:28:04,645
to justify new dimensional relief in 2026.

1835
01:28:05,505 --> 01:28:07,565
And what exactly are we approving?

1836
01:28:08,025 --> 01:28:11,445
Is the existing main house staying being enlarged,

1837
01:28:11,565 --> 01:28:13,645
incorporated, or demolished?

1838
01:28:14,265 --> 01:28:15,965
How tall will the new construction be?

1839
01:28:16,295 --> 01:28:18,925
Where are the vehicles? Where is the driveway?

1840
01:28:19,535 --> 01:28:20,885
Where does runoff go?

1841
01:28:21,225 --> 01:28:22,765
And if those answers are not known,

1842
01:28:22,905 --> 01:28:26,005
how can the board evaluate the actual effect of the variance

1843
01:28:26,665 --> 01:28:28,165
in the larger neighborhood concern?

1844
01:28:28,755 --> 01:28:31,645
This is not about renters or housing being bad.

1845
01:28:32,125 --> 01:28:34,605
Highland Ave is already experiencing greater nearby

1846
01:28:34,625 --> 01:28:35,805
dam density and traffic.

1847
01:28:36,425 --> 01:28:37,685
We have townhouses

1848
01:28:37,685 --> 01:28:40,125
that were built on either end of the road.

1849
01:28:40,845 --> 01:28:43,845
There is a condominium complex at the end of the hill

1850
01:28:44,505 --> 01:28:47,245
and we have other projects going on in right in

1851
01:28:47,405 --> 01:28:48,645
downtown in Abbott court.

1852
01:28:50,145 --> 01:28:53,605
So if dimensional relief is repeatedly granted

1853
01:28:53,825 --> 01:28:56,565
to add density to older single family parcels

1854
01:28:56,565 --> 01:28:58,885
that did not meet today's standards, at

1855
01:28:58,885 --> 01:29:01,565
what point does the exception begin changing the traffic

1856
01:29:01,635 --> 01:29:04,885
parking open space in character of the neighborhood?

1857
01:29:05,565 --> 01:29:07,885
I respectfully ask the board to address each

1858
01:29:07,885 --> 01:29:10,085
of the five variance criteria separately

1859
01:29:10,385 --> 01:29:12,965
and identify the evidence supporting each finding.

1860
01:29:13,545 --> 01:29:15,965
If there's not enough information to make those findings,

1861
01:29:16,125 --> 01:29:19,845
I ask the variance not be approved based on assumptions.

1862
01:29:20,305 --> 01:29:23,125
Please do not grant permanent dimensional relief first

1863
01:29:23,265 --> 01:29:25,005
and determine what the actual project

1864
01:29:25,465 --> 01:29:27,325
and its impacts are afterward.

1865
01:29:28,595 --> 01:29:32,845
Just on a personal note, the home had construction done

1866
01:29:32,845 --> 01:29:34,685
to it all through 2025.

1867
01:29:35,225 --> 01:29:38,045
We watched HVAC trucks come and go.

1868
01:29:38,105 --> 01:29:39,645
We watch plumbing come and go.

1869
01:29:39,665 --> 01:29:42,045
We watch new windows come and go.

1870
01:29:42,665 --> 01:29:45,365
We watched construction to the outside of the building.

1871
01:29:45,905 --> 01:29:48,245
We watched the attached building

1872
01:29:49,515 --> 01:29:53,645
that the developer is suggesting was falling in

1873
01:29:54,385 --> 01:29:55,925
be demolished.

1874
01:29:56,965 --> 01:30:01,085
I have yet to find any permits anywhere in any of the files,

1875
01:30:01,535 --> 01:30:04,485
which concerns me as an abutter as to what

1876
01:30:05,085 --> 01:30:08,005
actually will happen to the property in the

1877
01:30:08,005 --> 01:30:10,005
end. Thank you. Okay,

1878
01:30:10,465 --> 01:30:12,525
So I think one of the points, Ms.

1879
01:30:12,615 --> 01:30:16,245
Oland, even if this was a single family, this is a,

1880
01:30:16,405 --> 01:30:19,365
a non-conforming lot without the frontage, right?

1881
01:30:19,505 --> 01:30:20,605
That's correct. Yeah. Yes.

1882
01:30:20,705 --> 01:30:23,485
And, and so just, I'm gonna start working back

1883
01:30:23,485 --> 01:30:24,685
through some of your questions.

1884
01:30:24,875 --> 01:30:29,125
Sure. So either way the property was non-conforming on the

1885
01:30:29,125 --> 01:30:31,525
frontage because of the year that it was built.

1886
01:30:32,515 --> 01:30:34,565
Some of the other issues that, you know,

1887
01:30:34,605 --> 01:30:36,125
I can't speak to the permitting.

1888
01:30:36,125 --> 01:30:38,445
However, I am disappointed that

1889
01:30:39,045 --> 01:30:42,205
a demolition permit was not issued here.

1890
01:30:42,895 --> 01:30:45,325
Other than that, the individual trades

1891
01:30:45,325 --> 01:30:48,285
that have been servicing the parcel, I can't,

1892
01:30:48,565 --> 01:30:49,965
I can't address to that.

1893
01:30:51,385 --> 01:30:56,205
The board some other points you made about

1894
01:30:56,265 --> 01:30:58,285
the, about the building and the structure.

1895
01:30:58,465 --> 01:31:02,605
The board doesn't, doesn't have purview in that area.

1896
01:31:02,945 --> 01:31:06,285
It can use it as consideration my opening statements

1897
01:31:06,345 --> 01:31:08,565
for this meeting this evening about ordinances?

1898
01:31:08,905 --> 01:31:12,445
Yes. Using land development regulation statutes

1899
01:31:12,465 --> 01:31:16,565
and case law are, you know, certainly play into

1900
01:31:16,565 --> 01:31:17,965
that same idea.

1901
01:31:19,785 --> 01:31:21,085
I'm going to rest there.

1902
01:31:21,285 --> 01:31:25,405
I think the parking issue,

1903
01:31:26,465 --> 01:31:29,125
you know, that's not something that the board also

1904
01:31:29,685 --> 01:31:34,285
looks at necessarily though it can be considered as well.

1905
01:31:34,925 --> 01:31:36,925
I think the state, the legislature

1906
01:31:37,105 --> 01:31:39,005
and the governor have given relief

1907
01:31:39,105 --> 01:31:42,245
and requirements to the, that parking requirement.

1908
01:31:42,805 --> 01:31:46,925
I think my note on the current curb cut brought me to

1909
01:31:48,265 --> 01:31:49,285
the idea that,

1910
01:31:49,945 --> 01:31:52,565
and I actually, when I looked at this parcel, I thought

1911
01:31:52,565 --> 01:31:54,925
that the driveway might be down the, the side,

1912
01:31:54,985 --> 01:31:56,365
the left side of the property, correct?

1913
01:31:56,395 --> 01:31:58,445
Yeah. There was no driveway to that home.

1914
01:31:59,675 --> 01:32:02,365
Well, there was a curb cut. Where did people park?

1915
01:32:03,265 --> 01:32:05,845
The woman who actually lived in that home,

1916
01:32:05,865 --> 01:32:08,925
who passed away, purchased the home in 1965

1917
01:32:09,465 --> 01:32:13,605
and she just parked her car in the grass next to the ramp

1918
01:32:13,605 --> 01:32:14,925
that they had supplied for her.

1919
01:32:15,955 --> 01:32:17,965
Okay. And is that where the curb cut

1920
01:32:17,965 --> 01:32:19,205
currently is shown on the

1921
01:32:19,365 --> 01:32:20,365
Property?

1922
01:32:20,365 --> 01:32:22,125
That is currently where the new curb cut is.

1923
01:32:22,635 --> 01:32:24,725
When they did the new road

1924
01:32:25,025 --> 01:32:27,525
and the new sidewalks on my side,

1925
01:32:28,315 --> 01:32:30,965
they added the curb cut for her there.

1926
01:32:31,855 --> 01:32:36,845
Where did, how many, when did this lady passed away?

1927
01:32:38,305 --> 01:32:40,285
She passed away. It's been two years now.

1928
01:32:41,705 --> 01:32:44,845
So I wanna say that the home was actually purchased

1929
01:32:45,745 --> 01:32:50,205
in 20, the end of 2024 or the beginning of 2025.

1930
01:32:50,965 --> 01:32:53,765
Because work, work began of

1931
01:32:54,315 --> 01:32:56,765
significant time after her death.

1932
01:32:56,905 --> 01:33:00,445
Yep. So I believe she died in early 2024. Okay.

1933
01:33:01,085 --> 01:33:03,045
I think Mr. Burge indicated he's owned

1934
01:33:03,045 --> 01:33:04,165
the property for a year.

1935
01:33:04,905 --> 01:33:07,765
So that would make sense to the amount of work

1936
01:33:07,765 --> 01:33:09,245
that was in and out of the property.

1937
01:33:09,385 --> 01:33:13,605
Yes. I I'm gonna rest there

1938
01:33:13,605 --> 01:33:15,165
for a minute 'cause you threw a lot at us.

1939
01:33:15,255 --> 01:33:17,045
Sorry. I appreciate that you did not try

1940
01:33:17,045 --> 01:33:18,165
to read the seven pages.

1941
01:33:19,145 --> 01:33:22,045
So I'm going to yield to the other members of the board

1942
01:33:22,905 --> 01:33:25,045
for any questions, Mr. Dietzel?

1943
01:33:25,745 --> 01:33:27,205
No, thank you Mr. Chair. Mr. Corbitt?

1944
01:33:27,205 --> 01:33:31,365
No, it was a nice abbreviated version of the letter.

1945
01:33:31,525 --> 01:33:33,485
I thought you brought up some very good points, especially

1946
01:33:33,485 --> 01:33:37,685
with the, the other houses or the other multi-family houses.

1947
01:33:38,325 --> 01:33:39,365
But I have no questions. Thank you.

1948
01:33:39,475 --> 01:33:42,685
Okay, Mrs. Morn, I have no questions. Mr. Trip.

1949
01:33:43,545 --> 01:33:47,005
So you've indicated that

1950
01:33:48,425 --> 01:33:52,485
the property where the building on the front of the

1951
01:33:53,485 --> 01:33:56,685
property has, has received extensive renovation.

1952
01:33:57,415 --> 01:33:59,685
There has been extensive renovation.

1953
01:33:59,915 --> 01:34:02,205
What exactly has been done? I could not tell you.

1954
01:34:03,145 --> 01:34:06,285
We did take pictures of the HVAC trucks that came,

1955
01:34:06,465 --> 01:34:08,125
the windows that were all replaced

1956
01:34:08,545 --> 01:34:12,605
or boarded up, the plumbing company that came and went.

1957
01:34:13,465 --> 01:34:15,765
And then of course they demolished the,

1958
01:34:16,305 --> 01:34:20,645
the attached building in the back, which was a, according

1959
01:34:20,785 --> 01:34:23,685
to the original owner, it was just an empty garage.

1960
01:34:25,625 --> 01:34:28,885
Oh. And the original owner was the lady that

1961
01:34:28,885 --> 01:34:29,885
Died?

1962
01:34:29,885 --> 01:34:30,645
The woman who? Yes.

1963
01:34:33,355 --> 01:34:35,085
Well, I guess we'll never know

1964
01:34:35,085 --> 01:34:37,045
what was the in the building since it's gone.

1965
01:34:37,345 --> 01:34:41,365
It is. Yes. So, Okay,

1966
01:34:41,415 --> 01:34:42,415
Thank you.

1967
01:34:49,955 --> 01:34:51,055
I'm trying to, I got a

1968
01:34:51,135 --> 01:34:52,215
question from Ms. Owen based off that.

1969
01:34:52,215 --> 01:34:53,855
Yes, Mr. Corbett.

1970
01:34:53,855 --> 01:34:54,815
Ms. Owen, I have a question

1971
01:34:54,845 --> 01:34:55,935
kind of based off that comment.

1972
01:34:57,625 --> 01:34:59,165
So familiar with different properties

1973
01:34:59,165 --> 01:35:03,405
where a garage gets turned into more of an event space,

1974
01:35:03,415 --> 01:35:05,525
we'll call it, we'll get some type

1975
01:35:05,525 --> 01:35:08,165
of kitchen put in heating, basically everything

1976
01:35:08,165 --> 01:35:10,565
that's no longer used for a garage,

1977
01:35:10,625 --> 01:35:13,165
but not technically a living space, if that makes sense.

1978
01:35:14,865 --> 01:35:16,085
How would we delineate that,

1979
01:35:16,465 --> 01:35:17,485
you know, for something like this?

1980
01:35:18,225 --> 01:35:20,725
If, excuse me. I Think I cannot answer those

1981
01:35:20,965 --> 01:35:21,965
Questions.

1982
01:35:21,965 --> 01:35:23,485
Well, you can't answer 'em right now. It's not your turn.

1983
01:35:24,135 --> 01:35:25,685
Thank you. Go ahead.

1984
01:35:28,105 --> 01:35:29,605
If I understand what you're asking.

1985
01:35:29,825 --> 01:35:34,485
So if this was an, an open space with a sink and a and,

1986
01:35:34,625 --> 01:35:36,285
and how would we define that? That means

1987
01:35:36,285 --> 01:35:38,725
Yeah, the separation of, you know, even if it has a meter,

1988
01:35:38,815 --> 01:35:43,045
would it have to be its own separate utility charge

1989
01:35:43,065 --> 01:35:46,445
or its own utility meter as opposed to the house?

1990
01:35:46,555 --> 01:35:49,205
Like how would we differentiate a multi-family, I guess

1991
01:35:49,585 --> 01:35:54,085
as opposed to just two, two usable spaces?

1992
01:35:55,065 --> 01:35:57,245
So it would be separate utilities?

1993
01:35:57,265 --> 01:35:58,765
It would, you would generally see

1994
01:35:58,765 --> 01:36:01,285
for a two family separate electrical meters as well.

1995
01:36:02,405 --> 01:36:03,885
Separate services, one for each space.

1996
01:36:04,745 --> 01:36:07,525
And this is serviced by municipal water and sewer.

1997
01:36:07,525 --> 01:36:11,565
So there would generally essentially be a separate shutoff

1998
01:36:11,785 --> 01:36:13,485
for that secondary unit as well.

1999
01:36:15,705 --> 01:36:18,885
And, and, and staff can be determining where

2000
01:36:18,885 --> 01:36:20,685
that hap you know, where that would be occurring.

2001
01:36:23,245 --> 01:36:24,815
Okay. Does, does that help answer?

2002
01:36:25,905 --> 01:36:27,105
I think so. Thank you. You're welcome.

2003
01:36:27,495 --> 01:36:29,545
It's not unreasonable.

2004
01:36:29,805 --> 01:36:32,705
And with the butter's testimony that the meter

2005
01:36:33,265 --> 01:36:36,705
could have been just for, to, for service in the garage

2006
01:36:37,725 --> 01:36:41,225
and which is significant, you know,

2007
01:36:41,455 --> 01:36:44,505
it's not having any picture evidence of

2008
01:36:44,505 --> 01:36:45,865
what was there Right.

2009
01:36:45,865 --> 01:36:49,105
Starts to play into consideration here. Correct? Correct.

2010
01:36:49,605 --> 01:36:53,225
If, if I may, historically in these neighborhoods,

2011
01:36:54,005 --> 01:36:57,865
summer kitchens were not out of the ordinary and

2012
01:36:57,865 --> 01:36:59,705
because it is, it would have

2013
01:36:59,705 --> 01:37:01,225
to be dug up through the archives.

2014
01:37:01,225 --> 01:37:03,425
It's not something, I cannot say

2015
01:37:03,425 --> 01:37:05,105
that there's a second meter at that house.

2016
01:37:05,235 --> 01:37:06,385
We've never seen one.

2017
01:37:07,685 --> 01:37:10,705
It could very well have been a summer kitchen for

2018
01:37:11,605 --> 01:37:12,825
the woman who lived there.

2019
01:37:13,045 --> 01:37:14,945
She was that old when she passed away.

2020
01:37:15,065 --> 01:37:16,385
I believe she was in her nineties.

2021
01:37:17,775 --> 01:37:22,025
Okay. Anything else

2022
01:37:22,135 --> 01:37:23,185
that we can think of?

2023
01:37:24,065 --> 01:37:26,305
Anything we haven't addressed with you at this point? So

2024
01:37:26,585 --> 01:37:27,625
I got another question, Mr.

2025
01:37:27,625 --> 01:37:29,505
Trip. So there's no record of

2026
01:37:31,725 --> 01:37:34,425
the building being assessed as a two family,

2027
01:37:37,895 --> 01:37:39,195
Not in the records that we've been

2028
01:37:39,195 --> 01:37:40,235
able to find and locate?

2029
01:37:40,535 --> 01:37:43,315
No. So it's, it's been a single family. So

2030
01:37:43,315 --> 01:37:45,395
It's it's the,

2031
01:37:47,925 --> 01:37:49,945
the assessment is based on the building being

2032
01:37:50,545 --> 01:37:51,625
a single family.

2033
01:37:51,735 --> 01:37:54,545
Correct. And there's no record of it ever being

2034
01:37:56,975 --> 01:37:58,895
assessed for two family?

2035
01:37:59,635 --> 01:38:02,295
Not that we've located, no. Thank you. You're welcome.

2036
01:38:04,055 --> 01:38:06,775
I think it is reasonable to suggest

2037
01:38:06,775 --> 01:38:09,535
however, that if it were a garage it would not have

2038
01:38:09,535 --> 01:38:10,775
had a foundation on it.

2039
01:38:12,515 --> 01:38:16,095
Say again? It's reasonable to, especially

2040
01:38:16,095 --> 01:38:17,695
with the conditions of the property,

2041
01:38:17,725 --> 01:38:20,215
that if it were a garage it probably would not have

2042
01:38:20,215 --> 01:38:21,415
had a foundation to it.

2043
01:38:24,995 --> 01:38:28,455
So does, did the assessor say that the

2044
01:38:29,725 --> 01:38:32,615
rear building, was it two story building?

2045
01:38:34,415 --> 01:38:36,255
I don't have record of that.

2046
01:38:36,875 --> 01:38:39,815
The, I'm sorry. The tax card actually says that

2047
01:38:39,815 --> 01:38:43,295
that space is base living space with no other fixtures

2048
01:38:44,235 --> 01:38:45,895
and the assessment starts

2049
01:38:46,435 --> 01:38:49,015
for anything past the building of the house.

2050
01:38:49,075 --> 01:38:53,655
For the purpose of assessment, the tax card has it as 1977

2051
01:38:54,075 --> 01:38:56,615
but they cannot guarantee the actual date that

2052
01:38:56,615 --> 01:38:59,295
that particular building was attached to the home.

2053
01:39:00,995 --> 01:39:02,575
And what I can find here is

2054
01:39:02,575 --> 01:39:05,135
that it's approximately 325 square feet.

2055
01:39:05,135 --> 01:39:06,695
It does say that it did have a basement.

2056
01:39:08,815 --> 01:39:10,215
Visually the image that that's

2057
01:39:10,415 --> 01:39:13,255
provided appears to be a single story.

2058
01:39:13,915 --> 01:39:16,135
The grades do slope in the rear of the lot.

2059
01:39:16,555 --> 01:39:18,375
Not sure if that had changed anything on the back,

2060
01:39:18,515 --> 01:39:20,895
but it looks like it was a single story.

2061
01:39:21,165 --> 01:39:24,055
Approximately 323 square feet.

2062
01:39:28,745 --> 01:39:31,095
All's up Mr. Trip. That's it for now.

2063
01:39:31,945 --> 01:39:35,375
Could I have you re repeat that square footage,

2064
01:39:35,445 --> 01:39:37,535
that last sentence Mrs. O Owen?

2065
01:39:38,395 --> 01:39:40,895
Yes. It is listed here

2066
01:39:40,995 --> 01:39:45,735
as 323 square feet with a basement

2067
01:39:46,275 --> 01:39:49,855
and it appears to be a single story.

2068
01:39:50,315 --> 01:39:53,415
The Okay. Original garage in question.

2069
01:39:54,045 --> 01:39:58,495
Okay, very good. All right. Anything else ma'am?

2070
01:39:58,835 --> 01:40:00,135
No. All right. We'll let you rest.

2071
01:40:00,135 --> 01:40:01,895
There's a gentleman in the back who's really

2072
01:40:01,895 --> 01:40:03,095
anxious to speak to us.

2073
01:40:03,145 --> 01:40:07,415
We'll we'll consider him under anybody opposed

2074
01:40:07,915 --> 01:40:08,975
to this application?

2075
01:40:09,115 --> 01:40:10,335
Sir, you can come on up.

2076
01:40:21,125 --> 01:40:22,855
Good evening your name?

2077
01:40:23,315 --> 01:40:25,695
My name is Richard Magoon. Okay, Mr.

2078
01:40:26,015 --> 01:40:28,215
I live at 19 Highland Ave. All right.

2079
01:40:28,715 --> 01:40:32,535
And I grew up in 21 Highland Ave. Okay.

2080
01:40:33,635 --> 01:40:35,695
It was my mom's house. Okay.

2081
01:40:37,715 --> 01:40:39,415
And I can answer some of the questions if

2082
01:40:39,415 --> 01:40:40,495
you have some questions

2083
01:40:40,835 --> 01:40:44,775
By, well if you'd like to add anything to what was said.

2084
01:40:44,845 --> 01:40:47,255
Well I would like to add that it was never a two

2085
01:40:47,255 --> 01:40:48,655
family D dwelling.

2086
01:40:50,035 --> 01:40:53,605
The two bubbles because that's for electric heat.

2087
01:40:54,665 --> 01:40:57,605
My house has two bubbles on it. Okay. Okay.

2088
01:40:59,625 --> 01:41:02,005
I'm sorry. Not electric heat, but electric cot water.

2089
01:41:02,185 --> 01:41:03,605
Got it. Yep. Okay. Yep.

2090
01:41:05,335 --> 01:41:06,805
Which was typical. Huh.

2091
01:41:06,855 --> 01:41:10,125
Which was typical of back in the eighties. Right, right.

2092
01:41:10,905 --> 01:41:15,605
And that wasn't a, a kitchen if you will,

2093
01:41:15,955 --> 01:41:17,485
that was a storage shed.

2094
01:41:17,715 --> 01:41:19,645
Okay. Now where the

2095
01:41:23,465 --> 01:41:26,485
garage was my stepfather years ago.

2096
01:41:26,745 --> 01:41:31,325
In fact in 1971 he built an office out there.

2097
01:41:32,035 --> 01:41:35,165
Okay. Okay. And his name was Fred Piper

2098
01:41:35,505 --> 01:41:38,605
and he was also the building inspector for many years.

2099
01:41:38,875 --> 01:41:40,005
Okay. Okay.

2100
01:41:42,345 --> 01:41:44,765
But it was never a two family dwelling

2101
01:41:45,145 --> 01:41:49,365
and it was never two bathrooms in it.

2102
01:41:49,675 --> 01:41:50,765
Okay. I grew up there

2103
01:41:50,765 --> 01:41:53,045
and there was 10 of us in that one in

2104
01:41:53,045 --> 01:41:54,525
that house with one bathroom.

2105
01:41:55,035 --> 01:41:56,085
Okay. Okay.

2106
01:41:56,345 --> 01:41:58,565
So makes you wonder how we functioned. Right. Yeah.

2107
01:41:58,985 --> 01:42:03,485
So, but basically that's all I have to add.

2108
01:42:03,845 --> 01:42:08,205
I would like to see a conceptional drawing of the property

2109
01:42:08,345 --> 01:42:09,725
and what's gonna be there.

2110
01:42:10,555 --> 01:42:15,365
Okay. The gentleman is saying that it's a 30

2111
01:42:15,465 --> 01:42:19,485
by 30 and I'd like to see how far back is, you know,

2112
01:42:19,625 --> 01:42:22,365
that's going on attached to the original house

2113
01:42:22,745 --> 01:42:25,925
to get an idea of what that's gonna take up on

2114
01:42:25,925 --> 01:42:28,245
that piece of property. You

2115
01:42:28,585 --> 01:42:29,585
Yep.

2116
01:42:29,745 --> 01:42:32,125
I'm not saying I'm against it or for it,

2117
01:42:32,745 --> 01:42:36,365
but I just wanted to have some of these things looked at.

2118
01:42:36,585 --> 01:42:37,845
Yep. Okay.

2119
01:42:38,155 --> 01:42:40,045
Okay. Alright. Appreciate the

2120
01:42:40,045 --> 01:42:41,045
History.

2121
01:42:41,045 --> 01:42:42,325
Any question, thank any for me, that's all I have. Mr.

2122
01:42:42,455 --> 01:42:43,455
Magoo.

2123
01:42:44,405 --> 01:42:48,445
I Appreciate the history. Okay. Thank you sir. Okay.

2124
01:42:51,345 --> 01:42:55,405
All right. Anybody else in opposition to this application?

2125
01:42:56,465 --> 01:42:59,125
Seeing no one gentlemen come back up and rebut,

2126
01:43:09,115 --> 01:43:13,405
tell me your

2127
01:43:13,405 --> 01:43:14,685
opportunity to address the

2128
01:43:14,685 --> 01:43:15,685
Sure.

2129
01:43:16,305 --> 01:43:20,125
So as we stated, it wasn't a garage as Mr.

2130
01:43:20,305 --> 01:43:22,485
Magoon had said that it wasn't a grudge.

2131
01:43:24,785 --> 01:43:26,765
You know, I don't know if there was a bathroom

2132
01:43:26,765 --> 01:43:27,805
there, he states there wasn't.

2133
01:43:27,805 --> 01:43:28,965
So there wasn't a bathroom there.

2134
01:43:29,785 --> 01:43:33,965
I'd be more than willing to put conceptual plans together of

2135
01:43:33,965 --> 01:43:35,485
what I potentially would propose

2136
01:43:37,025 --> 01:43:38,365
how it would sit on the lot,

2137
01:43:41,155 --> 01:43:46,005
produce a parking plan based on, you know,

2138
01:43:46,005 --> 01:43:48,565
what we need to do for parking or propose to do for parking.

2139
01:43:50,745 --> 01:43:52,605
You know, there is a curb cut out in front.

2140
01:43:53,425 --> 01:43:56,325
So you know, we've never seen a paved driveway there.

2141
01:43:56,325 --> 01:43:59,725
It was grass and as the neighborhood stated

2142
01:43:59,755 --> 01:44:01,005
that was, that's a fact.

2143
01:44:03,985 --> 01:44:06,125
You know, I don't know what the exact square footage of

2144
01:44:06,125 --> 01:44:07,445
that rear area is.

2145
01:44:09,785 --> 01:44:11,645
You know, the wall is still intact

2146
01:44:11,885 --> 01:44:13,365
'cause it was the wall on the back of the house.

2147
01:44:13,735 --> 01:44:16,325
Right. The majority of the foundation's still intact

2148
01:44:17,095 --> 01:44:18,805
other than the footing on the outer walls.

2149
01:44:20,245 --> 01:44:22,325
I think we heard 323 square

2150
01:44:22,325 --> 01:44:23,645
feet, Ms. Owen, is that correct?

2151
01:44:23,645 --> 01:44:24,645
Correct.

2152
01:44:25,655 --> 01:44:28,445
Right. Me you're looking at 323 and,

2153
01:44:28,465 --> 01:44:30,605
and I will tell you that just I,

2154
01:44:30,885 --> 01:44:33,165
I typically don't look at elevations.

2155
01:44:33,485 --> 01:44:35,445
It's not that we don't do it.

2156
01:44:38,185 --> 01:44:40,805
You know, sometimes there's some considerations if there's

2157
01:44:40,805 --> 01:44:42,565
objections and it's certainly up

2158
01:44:42,565 --> 01:44:44,805
to each individual board member if

2159
01:44:44,805 --> 01:44:45,925
that's what they'd like to see.

2160
01:44:46,065 --> 01:44:49,165
But this is a sizeable increase, 30 by 30.

2161
01:44:49,165 --> 01:44:51,885
Especially if it's going up two stories,

2162
01:44:52,385 --> 01:44:53,765
that's a sizable increase. We're

2163
01:44:53,765 --> 01:44:54,765
Willing to reduce that.

2164
01:44:54,765 --> 01:44:55,805
I mean if that, you know.

2165
01:44:57,875 --> 01:45:02,285
Okay. Any follow up from any

2166
01:45:02,285 --> 01:45:06,205
of the board members on this? No gestures there.

2167
01:45:06,865 --> 01:45:08,845
And we, and we did apply as part

2168
01:45:08,845 --> 01:45:12,365
of it was a frontage variation variance was part of our,

2169
01:45:15,305 --> 01:45:16,925
You were looking for frontage,

2170
01:45:16,925 --> 01:45:17,925
Vari.

2171
01:45:17,925 --> 01:45:19,845
I mean we knew that we only had the 74 feet,

2172
01:45:19,905 --> 01:45:21,565
the roughly 74 feet of the hundred.

2173
01:45:21,625 --> 01:45:23,405
So we knew that was a was a concern.

2174
01:45:23,835 --> 01:45:26,245
Yeah. Is that on your application for frontage? Yeah,

2175
01:45:26,355 --> 01:45:28,205
It's in the letter but it wasn't on I see

2176
01:45:28,315 --> 01:45:29,325
what we're ruling on.

2177
01:45:29,325 --> 01:45:32,965
Right. It says that we're just ruling on the unit.

2178
01:45:33,395 --> 01:45:35,845
Yeah, it's not on the legal agenda

2179
01:45:36,365 --> 01:45:37,805
I think because it's not, if I had to guess

2180
01:45:38,005 --> 01:45:39,405
'cause it's not increasing or decreasing

2181
01:45:39,405 --> 01:45:41,525
and it's already preexisting, non-conforming.

2182
01:45:42,255 --> 01:45:46,765
Right. Alright. Yeah we did note it in our letter.

2183
01:45:48,325 --> 01:45:50,925
Anything else you want to address the board with

2184
01:45:51,825 --> 01:45:52,825
At this point?

2185
01:45:52,825 --> 01:45:54,085
No, thank you. Appreciate it.

2186
01:45:54,355 --> 01:45:58,445
Alright, before we endeavor into

2187
01:46:01,645 --> 01:46:02,445
deliberation,

2188
01:46:07,065 --> 01:46:09,405
the board members have any other criteria

2189
01:46:09,465 --> 01:46:12,085
or questions for code enforcement before we move?

2190
01:46:14,665 --> 01:46:16,565
No. Okay. That being said,

2191
01:46:17,075 --> 01:46:18,765
take a motion, go into deliberation.

2192
01:46:19,785 --> 01:46:21,005
So Second,

2193
01:46:21,305 --> 01:46:22,305
Mr.

2194
01:46:22,305 --> 01:46:22,965
Trip has the call, Mr.

2195
01:46:25,745 --> 01:46:28,445
Corbet, sorry, has the second on that.

2196
01:46:29,185 --> 01:46:31,445
All in favor of deliberation, say aye a

2197
01:46:31,665 --> 01:46:32,665
Aye.

2198
01:46:33,445 --> 01:46:34,485
Anybody wish to lead

2199
01:46:34,505 --> 01:46:39,205
off Mr.

2200
01:46:39,275 --> 01:46:43,325
Dietzel? Not yet.

2201
01:46:46,825 --> 01:46:49,005
You presented some questions and concerns.

2202
01:46:49,475 --> 01:46:53,565
Yeah, I'm really hung up on the fifth criteria

2203
01:46:53,785 --> 01:46:55,325
and I think, I think

2204
01:46:55,325 --> 01:46:57,485
that flows into the other, other criteria.

2205
01:47:02,605 --> 01:47:03,565
I don't see any special

2206
01:47:09,125 --> 01:47:10,895
circumstances, circumstances

2207
01:47:10,915 --> 01:47:12,735
of this property which would make it,

2208
01:47:13,295 --> 01:47:14,975
which would render it reasonable.

2209
01:47:15,615 --> 01:47:17,335
There aren't any special conditions

2210
01:47:18,675 --> 01:47:21,655
and there aren't any special conditions which would prevent

2211
01:47:21,655 --> 01:47:25,845
him from building a one family

2212
01:47:25,945 --> 01:47:29,885
or something that does comply with the ordinance.

2213
01:47:30,465 --> 01:47:34,005
And so that flows into the first, the the first four.

2214
01:47:34,245 --> 01:47:37,005
I don't, I don't think it's in the, the public interest

2215
01:47:37,105 --> 01:47:40,645
to make this, this neighborhood more thickly settled

2216
01:47:40,745 --> 01:47:43,965
for all the reasons that, that the abutter

2217
01:47:45,925 --> 01:47:49,085
outlined in her, her her letter.

2218
01:47:52,005 --> 01:47:56,125
I understand that, that the historic nature of the, the this

2219
01:47:56,645 --> 01:47:59,445
neighborhood is thickly settled.

2220
01:47:59,465 --> 01:48:01,405
But that's one of the reasons that we, that we

2221
01:48:01,915 --> 01:48:03,445
implemented the ordinances.

2222
01:48:03,505 --> 01:48:05,885
We wanted to provide a little bit of relief.

2223
01:48:07,475 --> 01:48:08,485
Substantial justice.

2224
01:48:08,795 --> 01:48:11,245
Yeah, I can see that there is a benefit

2225
01:48:14,395 --> 01:48:18,485
that there is a benefit to the applicant

2226
01:48:18,905 --> 01:48:21,845
but I think it's outweighed by the, the, the harm done

2227
01:48:21,905 --> 01:48:24,365
by the, to the neighborhood.

2228
01:48:24,805 --> 01:48:26,925
I just don't think it's a, a good fit

2229
01:48:26,945 --> 01:48:29,965
for another multifamily.

2230
01:48:30,065 --> 01:48:32,765
So I think it fails all five criteria.

2231
01:48:33,195 --> 01:48:34,765
Okay. Ms. Moore, any thoughts?

2232
01:48:35,425 --> 01:48:38,125
So I tried to search like high

2233
01:48:38,125 --> 01:48:43,005
and low to find a way to see that it was previously

2234
01:48:43,265 --> 01:48:45,445
to multifamily

2235
01:48:45,445 --> 01:48:48,205
because I agree that it didn't hit the hard,

2236
01:48:48,305 --> 01:48:50,085
it didn't check off the hardship box.

2237
01:48:51,945 --> 01:48:56,045
And unfortunately the statue doesn't include an owner making

2238
01:48:56,065 --> 01:48:59,685
the most profit on a parcel of land

2239
01:48:59,875 --> 01:49:03,565
that doesn't make it so it can't be used.

2240
01:49:04,665 --> 01:49:07,165
So I see that as what it was before

2241
01:49:07,185 --> 01:49:10,805
and what it's always been, it can be reasonably used

2242
01:49:11,985 --> 01:49:14,405
As it in its current single family condition.

2243
01:49:14,625 --> 01:49:16,445
Yes. Okay. Mr. Trip?

2244
01:49:17,915 --> 01:49:21,245
Well I agree with Ms. Morin this,

2245
01:49:22,475 --> 01:49:27,095
it's a stretch to contemplate this being a

2246
01:49:27,515 --> 01:49:30,135
two family lot.

2247
01:49:31,435 --> 01:49:34,855
Now the, there's,

2248
01:49:36,125 --> 01:49:38,575
this is not the only thing that's wrong with this lot,

2249
01:49:39,235 --> 01:49:41,775
you know, even though it's a existing non-conforming,

2250
01:49:43,375 --> 01:49:47,285
I think making it more, more non-conforming is, is not a,

2251
01:49:48,365 --> 01:49:50,005
a path we should be treading on.

2252
01:49:50,675 --> 01:49:52,925
Very good Mr. Corvett,

2253
01:49:53,925 --> 01:49:55,925
I don't mean this at all disrespectfully,

2254
01:49:55,985 --> 01:49:58,725
but one of the few times I find myself in a complete

2255
01:49:58,725 --> 01:49:59,845
agreement with both Mr.

2256
01:49:59,845 --> 01:50:02,045
Dietal and Mr. Trip. I think with their points

2257
01:50:02,315 --> 01:50:05,005
that they, they they nailed it.

2258
01:50:05,125 --> 01:50:07,005
I don't see, I don't see the hardship.

2259
01:50:07,205 --> 01:50:08,805
I do think it, it kind

2260
01:50:08,805 --> 01:50:11,245
of goes directly against the spirit of the ordinance.

2261
01:50:11,245 --> 01:50:12,285
You know, especially the history

2262
01:50:12,525 --> 01:50:15,445
provided for the other multifamily houses in this area.

2263
01:50:15,445 --> 01:50:16,845
They're all over a hundred years old.

2264
01:50:16,845 --> 01:50:19,325
Obviously with this, you know, a change to the zoning

2265
01:50:19,465 --> 01:50:21,365
to prevent some this type of overcrowding.

2266
01:50:22,465 --> 01:50:24,685
You know, perhaps if we were looking at this property

2267
01:50:24,685 --> 01:50:27,125
and it was a house that was burnt down, you know,

2268
01:50:27,545 --> 01:50:31,765
in an effort to you know, try to get the value back.

2269
01:50:31,825 --> 01:50:33,365
The only thing that worked was a two family

2270
01:50:33,425 --> 01:50:35,245
but we have an existing single family house

2271
01:50:35,265 --> 01:50:37,765
and now we're just adding another house to the property.

2272
01:50:38,445 --> 01:50:39,445
I just, I don't see it.

2273
01:50:41,515 --> 01:50:46,485
Yeah, the undersized lot issue is for

2274
01:50:46,825 --> 01:50:49,205
to create a second

2275
01:50:49,425 --> 01:50:54,085
and larger nonconforming issue where it doesn't seem

2276
01:50:54,225 --> 01:50:55,685
as though that it's locked

2277
01:50:55,795 --> 01:50:57,605
that this is what was there before.

2278
01:50:58,895 --> 01:51:03,085
Seems like a stretch to myself as well.

2279
01:51:05,815 --> 01:51:09,125
Other than that, let's get in dive into

2280
01:51:10,085 --> 01:51:12,165
structuring a motion as the board always

2281
01:51:12,765 --> 01:51:15,645
structures in the affirmative subject

2282
01:51:15,665 --> 01:51:17,765
to obtain obtaining all state

2283
01:51:17,765 --> 01:51:19,725
and town permits and inspections.

2284
01:51:21,125 --> 01:51:25,165
I also would add for a planning board review, would

2285
01:51:25,165 --> 01:51:26,965
that be appropriate here Mrs. Owen?

2286
01:51:27,065 --> 01:51:29,885
Or how would you have that if this were to prevail,

2287
01:51:30,425 --> 01:51:33,525
how would a planning board review on this work?

2288
01:51:35,945 --> 01:51:40,205
Is it something we could voluntarily ask them to take care

2289
01:51:40,205 --> 01:51:42,325
of and look at this, it may be redundant

2290
01:51:42,385 --> 01:51:45,365
but, or

2291
01:51:45,565 --> 01:51:49,965
TRCI trying

2292
01:51:49,965 --> 01:51:52,045
to find the avenue to push in that direction

2293
01:51:52,045 --> 01:51:54,845
where two family is a is a permitted use and it's,

2294
01:51:55,705 --> 01:51:58,445
and it's for the lot area

2295
01:51:59,305 --> 01:52:02,605
but based on the size of the lot, I'm sure that

2296
01:52:02,605 --> 01:52:03,765
that could be the reason to push

2297
01:52:04,385 --> 01:52:05,385
For a site plan.

2298
01:52:05,385 --> 01:52:06,605
Alright, I'm just, I'm gonna, I'm gonna state that

2299
01:52:06,665 --> 01:52:09,565
as a second condition to this.

2300
01:52:09,765 --> 01:52:12,405
I think I already know the road here, but you wanna say

2301
01:52:12,405 --> 01:52:14,685
Like site Plan review to something like that?

2302
01:52:15,435 --> 01:52:17,325
Well I would just say planning board

2303
01:52:17,325 --> 01:52:18,485
review, I'm fine with that.

2304
01:52:18,485 --> 01:52:21,125
Okay. But like I said, I think it's already kind of,

2305
01:52:21,185 --> 01:52:22,325
we know where this is going.

2306
01:52:24,585 --> 01:52:26,725
Any other conditions board would want on

2307
01:52:26,725 --> 01:52:27,925
this in structured affirm?

2308
01:52:28,825 --> 01:52:29,885
No, I think you covered them.

2309
01:52:29,995 --> 01:52:33,645
Very good. All in favor of coming I deliberation say aye.

2310
01:52:33,945 --> 01:52:36,485
Aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Very good.

2311
01:52:36,545 --> 01:52:38,045
Mr. Moore, you have a motion to read?

2312
01:52:38,405 --> 01:52:42,605
I do. Thank you. I make a motion on case number two

2313
01:52:44,915 --> 01:52:49,525
zero to grant a variance to the terms of article six,

2314
01:52:49,675 --> 01:52:54,565
section 1 65 4 5 B one

2315
01:52:55,245 --> 01:52:59,885
A II of the town of dairy zoning ordinance

2316
01:52:59,945 --> 01:53:04,925
to per permit a two family dwelling on a lot with less than

2317
01:53:05,545 --> 01:53:09,885
the minimum required lot area per a dwelling unit

2318
01:53:10,745 --> 01:53:14,325
parcel id 2 6 2 4 0

2319
01:53:14,855 --> 01:53:19,005
zoned MHDR as presented with the following conditions.

2320
01:53:19,665 --> 01:53:22,085
We have two one subject

2321
01:53:22,265 --> 01:53:26,085
to obtaining El Satan town permits and inspections.

2322
01:53:26,745 --> 01:53:28,205
Two planning board review.

2323
01:53:28,745 --> 01:53:30,845
And that concludes the reading of the motion.

2324
01:53:31,045 --> 01:53:32,045
I need a second.

2325
01:53:32,785 --> 01:53:35,285
Second. Thank you Mr. Trip seconds. Mrs.

2326
01:53:35,285 --> 01:53:39,845
Morin's motion We have finding of fact

2327
01:53:42,585 --> 01:53:45,365
Yes finding a fact for case 26 dash one 30

2328
01:53:46,015 --> 01:53:49,885
heard September 17th, 2026 the ZBA heard the application

2329
01:53:49,905 --> 01:53:50,965
of Robert Burge

2330
01:53:50,965 --> 01:53:53,845
concerning the property located at 21 Highland Ave.

2331
01:53:53,845 --> 01:53:57,405
Parcel ID 2 6 2 4 0 notice was

2332
01:53:57,605 --> 01:53:59,325
provided to the immediate abutters per statute.

2333
01:53:59,905 --> 01:54:01,885
The board received testimony from the applicant,

2334
01:54:02,235 --> 01:54:04,485
town staff abutters and members of the public.

2335
01:54:05,225 --> 01:54:07,125
The applicant is requesting a variance to the terms

2336
01:54:07,125 --> 01:54:10,525
of Article six, section 1 65 45

2337
01:54:11,085 --> 01:54:14,965
B one a II of the town of dairy zoning ordinance

2338
01:54:14,985 --> 01:54:17,725
to permit a two family dwelling on a lot

2339
01:54:17,845 --> 01:54:19,605
with less than the minimum required lot

2340
01:54:19,605 --> 01:54:20,925
area per dwelling unit.

2341
01:54:21,585 --> 01:54:23,885
The property is located in the medium high density

2342
01:54:23,995 --> 01:54:26,605
residential zoning district, which allows a construction

2343
01:54:26,605 --> 01:54:28,925
of a two family dwelling within a required lot area

2344
01:54:29,065 --> 01:54:31,205
of 10,000 square feet per dwelling unit

2345
01:54:31,545 --> 01:54:33,925
or 20,000 square feet for two family dwelling.

2346
01:54:34,625 --> 01:54:38,645
The property in question contains approximately 11,325

2347
01:54:38,645 --> 01:54:41,485
square feet where 20,000 square feet is required.

2348
01:54:42,265 --> 01:54:45,205
The property is serviced by municipal water and sewer

2349
01:54:45,585 --> 01:54:47,365
and the board weigh testimony both

2350
01:54:47,385 --> 01:54:48,485
for and against the proposal.

2351
01:54:49,385 --> 01:54:51,565
Before I dive into the five criteria,

2352
01:54:51,595 --> 01:54:54,445
does anybody have any additions or addendums to make?

2353
01:54:55,985 --> 01:54:58,445
See no gestures there. Alright,

2354
01:54:59,895 --> 01:55:01,725
Let's go through the vote

2355
01:55:02,065 --> 01:55:05,685
and we, we will work through finding a fact along with it.

2356
01:55:06,785 --> 01:55:10,885
Mr. Dietzel, how are you on public interest

2357
01:55:11,905 --> 01:55:12,905
Now?

2358
01:55:12,905 --> 01:55:15,245
I acknowledge that the need for additional housing

2359
01:55:15,345 --> 01:55:16,445
and that is a benefit,

2360
01:55:16,705 --> 01:55:19,165
but I think on balance it's contrary

2361
01:55:19,165 --> 01:55:22,245
to the public interest in that we're trying

2362
01:55:22,245 --> 01:55:25,125
to move away in this particular zone from

2363
01:55:26,345 --> 01:55:27,405
overly dense

2364
01:55:30,345 --> 01:55:31,405
living patterns.

2365
01:55:31,505 --> 01:55:34,885
So I I I do not think overall it is in the,

2366
01:55:35,425 --> 01:55:36,685
in best interest.

2367
01:55:37,155 --> 01:55:39,045
Very good. Mr. Corbet?

2368
01:55:40,445 --> 01:55:43,885
I do not think that it is beneficial

2369
01:55:43,945 --> 01:55:45,085
to the public interest.

2370
01:55:49,605 --> 01:55:53,245
I really don't see how allowing, really just taking a,

2371
01:55:55,925 --> 01:55:58,005
a non-conforming law and making it more non-conforming

2372
01:55:58,065 --> 01:55:59,125
is in the best interest of the

2373
01:55:59,125 --> 01:56:00,365
public. I it's just that Frank.

2374
01:56:00,635 --> 01:56:03,925
Okay. Very good. Mrs. Owen, Mrs. Moore,

2375
01:56:06,925 --> 01:56:07,925
I agree.

2376
01:56:07,925 --> 01:56:10,685
I feel that needing

2377
01:56:10,685 --> 01:56:14,365
or wanting more housing isn't, it shouldn't supersede

2378
01:56:15,545 --> 01:56:16,845
the safety of others.

2379
01:56:18,115 --> 01:56:20,605
Very good. Mr. Trip,

2380
01:56:23,505 --> 01:56:26,245
The, this is one of those things where

2381
01:56:26,835 --> 01:56:31,325
this is quite an ask to say that, you know,

2382
01:56:32,665 --> 01:56:36,325
10,000 square feet is what's required for a single family.

2383
01:56:37,225 --> 01:56:41,445
And you're saying that 11,000 for 2000

2384
01:56:42,105 --> 01:56:46,485
for a two-family dwelling is, is acceptable

2385
01:56:47,065 --> 01:56:48,725
And I just don't, I just don't see that.

2386
01:56:49,395 --> 01:56:52,485
Alright. And the chair on public interest, I don't see

2387
01:56:52,485 --> 01:56:55,205
where in refuting of the,

2388
01:56:56,505 --> 01:56:58,645
of the applicant's commentary,

2389
01:56:59,805 --> 01:57:03,005
I I don't see the public interest when it's overcrowding

2390
01:57:03,065 --> 01:57:07,005
or creating increased density on a small

2391
01:57:07,145 --> 01:57:09,405
lot spirit of the ordinance.

2392
01:57:09,405 --> 01:57:10,405
Mr. Dietzel?

2393
01:57:11,595 --> 01:57:13,205
Well, the spirit of the ordinance I

2394
01:57:13,205 --> 01:57:14,325
think in this case is clear.

2395
01:57:14,325 --> 01:57:16,005
The ordinance is written to

2396
01:57:16,785 --> 01:57:18,965
reduce density in this particular zone.

2397
01:57:19,185 --> 01:57:22,405
And a a two family on such an undersized lot is,

2398
01:57:22,785 --> 01:57:26,685
is certainly contrary to the, to the, the ordinance.

2399
01:57:26,915 --> 01:57:31,485
Okay. Keeping density in check Mr. Corbett.

2400
01:57:31,635 --> 01:57:33,365
Yeah, I agree. I think it's direct violation

2401
01:57:34,465 --> 01:57:35,805
or the spirit of the ordinance.

2402
01:57:36,165 --> 01:57:37,245
I think that it was intended

2403
01:57:37,305 --> 01:57:39,725
to reduce the overwhelming volume.

2404
01:57:41,585 --> 01:57:46,005
Mrs. Moore. I agree it's non-conforming so

2405
01:57:46,675 --> 01:57:48,925
it's already going against the spirit of the ordinance.

2406
01:57:49,045 --> 01:57:50,645
I I can't see making it more

2407
01:57:51,515 --> 01:57:53,645
Very good Mr. Trip.

2408
01:57:54,625 --> 01:57:57,805
The, it's definitely not

2409
01:57:58,945 --> 01:58:01,445
in congruence with the spirit of the ordinance

2410
01:58:01,445 --> 01:58:06,285
because, you know, the, if it was

2411
01:58:07,325 --> 01:58:12,085
19,000 square feet in the lot, that would be something

2412
01:58:12,085 --> 01:58:14,885
that I would find much more acceptable than

2413
01:58:16,605 --> 01:58:19,885
a lot being simply 11,000 square feet.

2414
01:58:21,315 --> 01:58:23,525
Yeah, I would, I would vote no on this,

2415
01:58:23,545 --> 01:58:24,845
on the spear of the ordinance.

2416
01:58:25,045 --> 01:58:28,205
'cause it, the intention is to keep the, the

2417
01:58:29,235 --> 01:58:30,365
density down.

2418
01:58:31,715 --> 01:58:33,805
Substantial justice Mr. Dietzel.

2419
01:58:36,915 --> 01:58:39,725
Well that flows from the first two, I see harm done

2420
01:58:39,725 --> 01:58:42,245
to the neighborhood and that it's increasing density by

2421
01:58:43,285 --> 01:58:46,165
putting a a two family on an undersized lot

2422
01:58:46,625 --> 01:58:50,805
and certainly there would be a benefit to the applicant,

2423
01:58:50,825 --> 01:58:52,445
but I think it's outweighed by the,

2424
01:58:52,625 --> 01:58:54,165
by the harm done to the neighborhood.

2425
01:58:54,425 --> 01:58:57,005
Mr. Trip, I mean Yeah, go ahead Mr. Trip. What

2426
01:58:57,025 --> 01:58:58,005
Mr. Deso said.

2427
01:58:58,355 --> 01:59:02,005
Okay, Mr. Dietzel got it. Okay, Mr.

2428
01:59:02,265 --> 01:59:04,045
Corbit, sorry to jump around on it. It's

2429
01:59:04,045 --> 01:59:05,045
All right.

2430
01:59:05,045 --> 01:59:05,405
Yeah, I agree. I don't think

2431
01:59:05,405 --> 01:59:07,965
that substantial justice would be, would only be served

2432
01:59:08,025 --> 01:59:10,565
by allowing the additional house to be built.

2433
01:59:10,725 --> 01:59:12,525
I think that the justice works

2434
01:59:12,785 --> 01:59:14,805
as the property's currently constructed and used.

2435
01:59:15,915 --> 01:59:17,805
Very good. Thank you Mrs. Morin,

2436
01:59:18,455 --> 01:59:22,485
Their substantial justice had a bunch of assumptions in it

2437
01:59:22,505 --> 01:59:24,925
and we have learned what it, you know,

2438
01:59:25,185 --> 01:59:27,565
the extra power meter is and whatnot.

2439
01:59:28,385 --> 01:59:30,405
So I agree with everything

2440
01:59:30,405 --> 01:59:32,125
that was previously stated as well

2441
01:59:35,325 --> 01:59:36,325
In this regard.

2442
01:59:36,635 --> 01:59:40,405
Despite the fact that there are the other issues

2443
01:59:40,475 --> 01:59:43,045
that I'm opposed to, the substantial justice

2444
01:59:44,345 --> 01:59:45,845
was somewhat fair here,

2445
01:59:45,985 --> 01:59:49,965
but I will, on that regard, I would've affirmed

2446
01:59:51,495 --> 01:59:53,805
going against the other decisions that I had.

2447
01:59:54,685 --> 01:59:57,885
Values of surrounding properties are diminished. Mr.

2448
01:59:58,075 --> 01:59:59,075
Dietzel,

2449
02:00:00,785 --> 02:00:03,085
The burden is on the applicant to prove

2450
02:00:03,155 --> 02:00:07,485
that it would not be diminished and they haven't

2451
02:00:07,645 --> 02:00:09,205
provided any evidence one way or the other.

2452
02:00:09,425 --> 02:00:13,125
And I have no real estate experience,

2453
02:00:13,185 --> 02:00:15,565
so I I I just don't think that that the burden

2454
02:00:15,665 --> 02:00:17,725
of proof has been, has been met.

2455
02:00:17,725 --> 02:00:19,765
So I don't think that criterion was met either.

2456
02:00:20,065 --> 02:00:22,885
Mr. Corbet, I think the cleanup efforts at the property

2457
02:00:22,885 --> 02:00:24,605
have already increased the property value.

2458
02:00:24,635 --> 02:00:28,845
However, I think that the overcrowding

2459
02:00:28,845 --> 02:00:30,205
that this would create would negate that.

2460
02:00:32,235 --> 02:00:36,685
Okay. Mr. Mrs. Moore? I'm sorry. That's

2461
02:00:36,685 --> 02:00:37,685
Okay.

2462
02:00:37,785 --> 02:00:39,725
Mr. Dietzel worded it perfectly.

2463
02:00:39,965 --> 02:00:42,725
I as well don't have any real estate experience.

2464
02:00:42,905 --> 02:00:46,845
So that would be on the applicant to prove

2465
02:00:46,905 --> 02:00:48,325
and I just don't see

2466
02:00:50,335 --> 02:00:51,335
Mr.

2467
02:00:51,335 --> 02:00:51,745
Trip

2468
02:00:52,735 --> 02:00:52,955
The,

2469
02:00:59,295 --> 02:01:02,675
the addition of a 9,000 square

2470
02:01:02,705 --> 02:01:04,795
feet attached building.

2471
02:01:08,475 --> 02:01:11,595
I don't see where it would either enhance

2472
02:01:11,655 --> 02:01:12,235
or diminish

2473
02:01:13,135 --> 02:01:17,475
the surrounding property.

2474
02:01:17,855 --> 02:01:21,235
So you're a no on the di diminuation of value? Yep.

2475
02:01:21,425 --> 02:01:23,875
Alright. And the chair is no on that as well.

2476
02:01:24,795 --> 02:01:28,715
Little literal enforcement creates unnecessary hardship.

2477
02:01:29,215 --> 02:01:33,555
We are in section A or B. Mr. Dietzel,

2478
02:01:36,155 --> 02:01:37,875
I believe the application fails.

2479
02:01:39,285 --> 02:01:42,565
A, there's there's no special condition

2480
02:01:42,565 --> 02:01:45,165
that distinguishes it from the other property which would

2481
02:01:45,165 --> 02:01:46,765
make this reasonable.

2482
02:01:47,425 --> 02:01:48,925
And if we, if we do,

2483
02:01:48,995 --> 02:01:51,005
even though he didn't address it in the application,

2484
02:01:51,005 --> 02:01:55,605
if we go to B, there's nothing in the, the,

2485
02:01:56,185 --> 02:01:59,365
the nature of the, the property which would prevent him from

2486
02:02:02,115 --> 02:02:04,605
complying by building a single family home or,

2487
02:02:04,665 --> 02:02:07,325
or another conforming structure.

2488
02:02:07,555 --> 02:02:09,245
Okay, so five is not met

2489
02:02:09,735 --> 02:02:11,845
Reasonable versus excessive.

2490
02:02:12,155 --> 02:02:14,565
Correct. Okay, very good.

2491
02:02:14,785 --> 02:02:17,085
You feel that this would be excessive

2492
02:02:17,385 --> 02:02:19,445
and no hardship exists.

2493
02:02:20,065 --> 02:02:21,445
Mr. Corbett? I

2494
02:02:21,445 --> 02:02:23,405
Agree the property works as constructed today.

2495
02:02:23,685 --> 02:02:26,405
The single family house working on the single family lot,

2496
02:02:26,485 --> 02:02:27,885
I don't think we need to go further into

2497
02:02:28,515 --> 02:02:29,605
more non-conforming status.

2498
02:02:29,995 --> 02:02:34,205
Very good. Mrs. Morin, I also believe it's excessive.

2499
02:02:34,915 --> 02:02:36,485
Very good. Mr. Tripp?

2500
02:02:38,015 --> 02:02:42,355
The, he has a perfectly reasonable use

2501
02:02:43,085 --> 02:02:47,115
being the single family residence

2502
02:02:47,965 --> 02:02:50,555
attempting to get a double dual family

2503
02:02:50,585 --> 02:02:52,155
residence is excessive.

2504
02:02:53,495 --> 02:02:55,075
The chair would say that the,

2505
02:02:55,785 --> 02:02:59,395
that the request is excessive based on lot size

2506
02:02:59,695 --> 02:03:01,235
and the na, the

2507
02:03:03,775 --> 02:03:06,835
the other factors under sections.

2508
02:03:08,495 --> 02:03:10,595
Public interest and spear of the ordinance.

2509
02:03:12,095 --> 02:03:14,915
We have gone through the finding of fact points.

2510
02:03:15,175 --> 02:03:18,475
All in favor of moving this for a vote. Say aye. Aye. Aye.

2511
02:03:18,495 --> 02:03:20,035
Any opposed? Mr. Corbet?

2512
02:03:20,555 --> 02:03:21,675
I vote no

2513
02:03:21,675 --> 02:03:23,715
for the reasons listed during the finding of fact.

2514
02:03:23,795 --> 02:03:25,595
I don't feel that this meets any of the five criteria.

2515
02:03:25,785 --> 02:03:27,595
Very good. Mrs. Mor chair,

2516
02:03:27,675 --> 02:03:30,955
I also vote no for the reasons stated

2517
02:03:30,955 --> 02:03:32,275
during the finding of fact.

2518
02:03:32,415 --> 02:03:34,195
Mr. Trip I vote no

2519
02:03:34,895 --> 02:03:37,155
for the reasons stated in the finding effect.

2520
02:03:37,455 --> 02:03:38,875
Mr. Dietzel? No.

2521
02:03:40,175 --> 02:03:43,355
All right gentlemen, I I vote no as well.

2522
02:03:43,495 --> 02:03:45,555
So that's a unanimous opposition to you.

2523
02:03:46,115 --> 02:03:47,955
We've cleared the record.

2524
02:03:48,345 --> 02:03:51,395
Obviously if you're agreed by this, you have 30 days

2525
02:03:51,415 --> 02:03:55,555
to ask this board for reconsideration on points made and

2526
02:03:55,555 --> 02:03:57,635
after that recourse would be superior court.

2527
02:03:57,635 --> 02:04:01,795
Alright, sorry for your failure here.

2528
02:04:02,235 --> 02:04:03,355
Wish you good luck. Appreciate your time.

2529
02:04:03,355 --> 02:04:04,395
Thank you. Thank you for your time.

2530
02:04:06,495 --> 02:04:09,955
I'm going to call for a brief recess for three

2531
02:04:10,135 --> 02:04:14,515
to four minutes, so we will recess Mr.

2532
02:04:14,865 --> 02:04:17,035
Preventer. I'll be right back folks.

2533
02:04:19,975 --> 02:04:20,435
Go use the

2534
02:11:17,275 --> 02:11:18,275
Very good.

2535
02:11:18,275 --> 02:11:18,685
Thank you Mr. Proventure.

2536
02:11:18,785 --> 02:11:20,685
All right, we've called the applicant up

2537
02:11:20,705 --> 02:11:23,365
or they have voluntarily come up on their own.

2538
02:11:24,925 --> 02:11:29,045
26 dash 1 31 Applicant is Denali Building and Development.

2539
02:11:31,005 --> 02:11:34,485
COR. What is C-O-R-C-C?

2540
02:11:34,635 --> 02:11:36,925
Corporate I see miss the P.

2541
02:11:37,435 --> 02:11:39,805
Alright, corporation Lynn,

2542
02:11:40,425 --> 02:11:44,725
the owner is the Lerner family revocable trust.

2543
02:11:46,185 --> 02:11:49,925
And gentlemen, we ask that you read your application,

2544
02:11:50,025 --> 02:11:52,845
the five criteria and then we will hit you

2545
02:11:52,845 --> 02:11:54,965
with the questions and you'll have opportunity

2546
02:11:54,985 --> 02:11:56,725
to put things into your own words.

2547
02:11:57,955 --> 02:12:02,405
Just a note I wrote, I read, read a disclosure

2548
02:12:03,385 --> 02:12:05,765
for the public earlier limiting

2549
02:12:06,105 --> 02:12:09,365
and expressing who would be able the guidelines for

2550
02:12:09,365 --> 02:12:11,205
who will be able to speak on this matter.

2551
02:12:12,145 --> 02:12:16,085
And that was a public awareness commentary.

2552
02:12:16,175 --> 02:12:17,605
Other than that, you are free

2553
02:12:17,605 --> 02:12:19,205
to start your presentation sir.

2554
02:12:20,955 --> 02:12:23,245
Good evening. My name is Ben French.

2555
02:12:23,345 --> 02:12:24,485
I'm an associate attorney at

2556
02:12:24,485 --> 02:12:25,885
Gallagher Callahan and Gartrell.

2557
02:12:25,885 --> 02:12:27,245
We're up in Concord, New Hampshire.

2558
02:12:27,565 --> 02:12:29,045
Naturally we represent Denali Building

2559
02:12:29,045 --> 02:12:31,565
and Development for 19 Chester Road.

2560
02:12:31,745 --> 02:12:34,645
So with me tonight is Dan ot.

2561
02:12:35,875 --> 02:12:37,645
He's the principal for Denali Building

2562
02:12:37,815 --> 02:12:39,005
along with Doug Brodo.

2563
02:12:39,225 --> 02:12:40,725
He is the individual

2564
02:12:40,745 --> 02:12:42,725
who drafted our conceptual design plans.

2565
02:12:42,755 --> 02:12:44,285
He's from Meridian Land Services.

2566
02:12:46,355 --> 02:12:47,725
I'll be as efficient as possible.

2567
02:12:47,845 --> 02:12:49,605
I do just have a couple notes at the outset

2568
02:12:49,605 --> 02:12:51,245
before I get to the criteria.

2569
02:12:51,315 --> 02:12:52,725
Just some context and background

2570
02:12:52,725 --> 02:12:53,965
to help the board a little bit.

2571
02:12:54,705 --> 02:12:56,125
So this existed in parcel, how

2572
02:12:56,125 --> 02:12:57,125
Long will you be on that?

2573
02:12:57,125 --> 02:12:58,165
Very brief. Okay.

2574
02:12:59,825 --> 02:13:02,485
So it's, you know, we're talking about 11.38 acres,

2575
02:13:02,485 --> 02:13:05,605
size acres in size, 9.3 acres of a buildable lot.

2576
02:13:06,895 --> 02:13:10,605
We're in the medium density residential district, which

2577
02:13:11,435 --> 02:13:13,645
doesn't allow for multifamily dwelling units.

2578
02:13:13,785 --> 02:13:15,525
Am I coming through clearly on the microphone?

2579
02:13:16,075 --> 02:13:19,285
Okay, Mr. Pava, you good there? Yes sir. Thank you sir.

2580
02:13:22,685 --> 02:13:24,885
So naturally we're talking about a use variance to allow

2581
02:13:24,885 --> 02:13:26,165
for multifamily dwelling.

2582
02:13:26,745 --> 02:13:29,005
So this project is proposing a six building

2583
02:13:29,125 --> 02:13:30,725
156 unit development.

2584
02:13:31,365 --> 02:13:32,565
I note that at the outset

2585
02:13:32,565 --> 02:13:34,205
because what we're putting forward

2586
02:13:34,305 --> 02:13:37,725
to the board is probably the highest density we could

2587
02:13:37,725 --> 02:13:40,445
calculate and that's for the purposes of

2588
02:13:40,955 --> 02:13:43,045
this board being able to consider all the criteria

2589
02:13:43,585 --> 02:13:45,765
and understanding that at the planning stage

2590
02:13:45,765 --> 02:13:49,725
and site review stage the density would potentially change

2591
02:13:50,465 --> 02:13:52,085
or go down, but so

2592
02:13:52,085 --> 02:13:54,565
that we can fully consider everything we wanted

2593
02:13:54,565 --> 02:13:57,445
to put forward what we believe one matches the density

2594
02:13:57,665 --> 02:13:59,005
of projects in the area.

2595
02:13:59,345 --> 02:14:03,005
And two, just allows the board to fully consider everything.

2596
02:14:04,025 --> 02:14:07,605
So for purposes of variance criteria for public interest,

2597
02:14:07,785 --> 02:14:10,285
we believe it's not contrary to the public interest here

2598
02:14:11,105 --> 02:14:13,405
as it won't interfere with the ordinances overall purpose

2599
02:14:13,505 --> 02:14:14,965
of protecting the general safety

2600
02:14:14,985 --> 02:14:17,005
and welfare to prevent overcrowding

2601
02:14:17,005 --> 02:14:19,365
or have an undue concentration in population

2602
02:14:20,165 --> 02:14:21,965
while maintaining the character of the neighborhood

2603
02:14:21,965 --> 02:14:24,405
and encouraging the appropriate use of this land.

2604
02:14:26,305 --> 02:14:29,765
And again, at the planning stage, when we move,

2605
02:14:29,825 --> 02:14:32,605
if we do move forward at that stage, all

2606
02:14:32,605 --> 02:14:34,405
of those things come into consideration.

2607
02:14:34,465 --> 02:14:37,845
Safety, welfare, and given the size of this parcel,

2608
02:14:37,985 --> 02:14:39,765
we don't believe this would be overcrowding

2609
02:14:40,385 --> 02:14:43,405
and in general helps to address the housing shortage

2610
02:14:44,025 --> 02:14:46,845
on a large parcel that could handle the capacity

2611
02:14:46,845 --> 02:14:50,605
of occupancy that we propose for purposes

2612
02:14:50,605 --> 02:14:51,925
of the spirit of the ordinance.

2613
02:14:52,405 --> 02:14:54,765
This factor relates to public interest again,

2614
02:14:54,765 --> 02:14:55,885
so I'll try not to be repetitive,

2615
02:14:56,145 --> 02:14:58,205
but we would be looking at

2616
02:14:58,205 --> 02:14:59,885
how the ordinance ensures compatible

2617
02:15:00,225 --> 02:15:01,805
and harmonious uses here.

2618
02:15:02,065 --> 02:15:04,685
And we don't believe that this would be incompatible

2619
02:15:05,625 --> 02:15:08,485
or lack harmony with some of the surrounding parcels.

2620
02:15:08,545 --> 02:15:11,365
We have the Benjamin Chase Mill in the area,

2621
02:15:11,505 --> 02:15:14,565
the Highland Estates, the condo development.

2622
02:15:14,565 --> 02:15:16,685
There are several other condominium developments

2623
02:15:17,795 --> 02:15:18,965
with multifamily housing

2624
02:15:19,505 --> 02:15:22,365
and there's also the rehabilitation center nearby.

2625
02:15:23,225 --> 02:15:26,685
So we're not talking about a, you know,

2626
02:15:26,965 --> 02:15:29,005
cul-de-sac neighborhood that we're proposing a

2627
02:15:30,835 --> 02:15:34,485
many unit development in their existing similar

2628
02:15:34,565 --> 02:15:35,605
projects in the area.

2629
02:15:35,865 --> 02:15:37,045
So this would be within the character

2630
02:15:37,045 --> 02:15:38,045
of the overall neighborhood

2631
02:15:39,265 --> 02:15:42,645
and this district already allows for similar uses with

2632
02:15:43,525 --> 02:15:47,005
somewhat similar density, which would include potential

2633
02:15:47,005 --> 02:15:50,405
campgrounds or manufactured housing developments

2634
02:15:51,905 --> 02:15:52,965
for substantial justice.

2635
02:15:53,545 --> 02:15:55,165
The guiding factor here is that any loss

2636
02:15:55,165 --> 02:15:57,285
to the individual must be outweighed by gain

2637
02:15:57,285 --> 02:15:59,645
to the general public in denying the variance.

2638
02:16:00,665 --> 02:16:03,325
As previously stated, this serves the general need

2639
02:16:03,325 --> 02:16:06,405
for additional housing while comporting with other concerns

2640
02:16:06,405 --> 02:16:08,005
that the ordinance seeks to address.

2641
02:16:09,665 --> 02:16:12,685
And in addition, permitting the use also avoids the parcel

2642
02:16:12,775 --> 02:16:16,805
being used as permitted, albeit inconsistent

2643
02:16:16,805 --> 02:16:18,165
with surrounding uses.

2644
02:16:18,165 --> 02:16:20,605
Like I just said, a campground in this area would be

2645
02:16:20,605 --> 02:16:22,805
completely incongruent with what's going on.

2646
02:16:23,305 --> 02:16:26,325
In addition, a manufactured housing park would be very

2647
02:16:26,325 --> 02:16:31,165
inconsistent with surrounding uses For purposes

2648
02:16:31,165 --> 02:16:35,685
of the property values, we believe there's a lack

2649
02:16:35,685 --> 02:16:37,085
of evidence to, to suggest

2650
02:16:37,085 --> 02:16:38,885
that we would have a negative impact here.

2651
02:16:39,825 --> 02:16:42,885
As part of the packet we submitted the letter from John

2652
02:16:42,995 --> 02:16:44,925
Maci, a real estate agent in the area

2653
02:16:45,605 --> 02:16:48,725
who said there wouldn't be an adverse effect for purposes

2654
02:16:48,725 --> 02:16:52,245
of this criteria, though you may also consider first

2655
02:16:52,865 --> 02:16:55,405
the fact that we're not gonna be changing the character

2656
02:16:55,405 --> 02:17:00,085
of the neighborhood And we would mitigate

2657
02:17:00,155 --> 02:17:01,285
some general concerns

2658
02:17:01,285 --> 02:17:04,325
and talk about the fact that the development is gonna have

2659
02:17:04,325 --> 02:17:07,045
significant setback off of the roadway as part

2660
02:17:07,045 --> 02:17:08,485
of the plans you have before you.

2661
02:17:09,505 --> 02:17:11,485
For purposes of the directly abutting parcel,

2662
02:17:12,185 --> 02:17:15,005
the developer intends on putting in a six foot berm

2663
02:17:15,115 --> 02:17:17,685
with a six foot high fence on top of that.

2664
02:17:18,225 --> 02:17:20,445
And if necessary, at the planning stage, if,

2665
02:17:20,705 --> 02:17:23,885
or even if it were preferential, is proposing

2666
02:17:23,885 --> 02:17:25,325
to put an additional evergreen

2667
02:17:25,325 --> 02:17:30,045
and vegetation buffer, the buildings would be in line

2668
02:17:30,045 --> 02:17:31,165
with the local aesthetic.

2669
02:17:32,095 --> 02:17:34,765
It'll be new construction, aesthetically pleasing.

2670
02:17:37,945 --> 02:17:40,565
And again, with some of the mitigating factors,

2671
02:17:40,705 --> 02:17:43,845
we believe the impact for purposes of water runoff, all

2672
02:17:43,845 --> 02:17:45,285
of those things would be later

2673
02:17:45,395 --> 02:17:49,405
addressed for the hardship.

2674
02:17:50,325 --> 02:17:52,085
Owing the special conditions of this property

2675
02:17:52,085 --> 02:17:54,285
that distinguish it from other properties in the area,

2676
02:17:55,405 --> 02:17:58,045
a denial we believe would create an unnecessary hardship.

2677
02:17:58,135 --> 02:18:01,405
First, the subject parcel has access to Chester Road,

2678
02:18:01,405 --> 02:18:04,605
which is route 1 0 2, which is a significant roadway.

2679
02:18:05,515 --> 02:18:07,485
It's also significantly larger than many

2680
02:18:07,485 --> 02:18:10,565
of the abutting parcels, which are properly limited

2681
02:18:10,665 --> 02:18:12,125
to their single family uses

2682
02:18:12,265 --> 02:18:14,565
and would not be able to serve the proposed density

2683
02:18:14,665 --> 02:18:17,325
of this project because they would be undersized for it.

2684
02:18:18,865 --> 02:18:22,085
The restriction on this parcel would also prohibit an

2685
02:18:22,235 --> 02:18:24,125
otherwise reasonable form of housing,

2686
02:18:24,135 --> 02:18:26,365
which is consistent again with the character

2687
02:18:26,365 --> 02:18:30,725
of the neighborhood and again, is

2688
02:18:31,395 --> 02:18:34,645
more likely and better serving than other permitted uses in

2689
02:18:34,645 --> 02:18:36,605
this district, like the campground

2690
02:18:36,605 --> 02:18:38,085
and manufactured housing park.

2691
02:18:39,315 --> 02:18:41,965
This parcel's also large enough to allow

2692
02:18:41,965 --> 02:18:44,045
for this multifamily use,

2693
02:18:44,355 --> 02:18:46,565
even at its most heightened proposed use

2694
02:18:47,375 --> 02:18:49,885
while observing the minimum setbacks applicable

2695
02:18:50,185 --> 02:18:52,525
and all the other requirements for a single family use.

2696
02:18:54,325 --> 02:18:56,765
Lastly, the use is reasonable for many

2697
02:18:56,765 --> 02:18:59,845
of the reasons I previously discussed regarding character

2698
02:18:59,845 --> 02:19:02,165
of the neighborhood negatively,

2699
02:19:02,665 --> 02:19:05,525
we don't believe it would negatively impact the other zoning

2700
02:19:05,535 --> 02:19:07,325
goals in the town and would

2701
02:19:07,325 --> 02:19:09,805
otherwise help to address the housing shortage.

2702
02:19:10,785 --> 02:19:12,725
I'm happy to take any questions the board has.

2703
02:19:15,355 --> 02:19:18,525
Anybody wish to start off with any questions?

2704
02:19:21,425 --> 02:19:23,925
So it feels excessive just right off the bat.

2705
02:19:24,225 --> 02:19:27,405
You know, as I'm looking at it, we've got 156 units

2706
02:19:28,875 --> 02:19:32,205
presented in a way that you're expecting to reduce it later

2707
02:19:32,305 --> 02:19:34,165
so it doesn't feel a hundred percent ironed out.

2708
02:19:34,985 --> 02:19:38,245
But in addition to that, we also have a frontage requirement

2709
02:19:38,245 --> 02:19:39,485
that we're gonna need a variance for.

2710
02:19:39,505 --> 02:19:42,125
So we're now gonna be coming before with 156 units,

2711
02:19:42,585 --> 02:19:43,925
two different variances.

2712
02:19:44,825 --> 02:19:46,445
Why can't we split up this 11 acres

2713
02:19:46,705 --> 02:19:49,245
to a few different single family homes that would fit

2714
02:19:49,785 --> 02:19:50,965
rather than multiple.

2715
02:19:52,065 --> 02:19:54,325
But this last one, MR. Prevention rather than

2716
02:19:54,565 --> 02:19:55,605
multiple variances for this.

2717
02:19:57,485 --> 02:19:58,655
Yeah, so understood.

2718
02:19:59,075 --> 02:20:00,975
I'd want to hit on the frontage point first.

2719
02:20:01,215 --> 02:20:02,895
'cause I think the idea there needed

2720
02:20:02,895 --> 02:20:04,295
to be a second variance.

2721
02:20:04,515 --> 02:20:08,175
We would respectfully disagree on this is a pre-existing

2722
02:20:09,525 --> 02:20:11,095
what would be a non-conforming lot,

2723
02:20:11,155 --> 02:20:15,135
but that area is gonna serve the larger development

2724
02:20:15,195 --> 02:20:16,775
and it wouldn't require a variance.

2725
02:20:16,935 --> 02:20:18,335
'cause we're not subdividing at this point.

2726
02:20:19,395 --> 02:20:21,095
So that would be our position on that.

2727
02:20:21,115 --> 02:20:22,135
If the board disagrees

2728
02:20:22,155 --> 02:20:23,975
and there would be an administrative decision

2729
02:20:23,975 --> 02:20:26,335
of the contrary, we can, we can talk more about that.

2730
02:20:26,485 --> 02:20:29,415
Perfectly fine with that. It

2731
02:20:29,415 --> 02:20:30,975
Was presented to us that it would require

2732
02:20:31,035 --> 02:20:32,215
one for the frontage as well.

2733
02:20:33,145 --> 02:20:34,575
Sorry, That it requires a

2734
02:20:34,575 --> 02:20:35,695
variance for the frontage as well

2735
02:20:36,595 --> 02:20:37,895
Was presented in our application

2736
02:20:37,895 --> 02:20:39,495
or was presented during our

2737
02:20:39,495 --> 02:20:40,495
Review.

2738
02:20:41,165 --> 02:20:43,015
Okay. So was the board making an

2739
02:20:43,015 --> 02:20:44,935
administrative decision on that point? I guess I

2740
02:20:44,935 --> 02:20:46,775
Can defer to code enforcement, Mrs. Owen.

2741
02:20:48,295 --> 02:20:53,135
I did reference that I, that my staff memo,

2742
02:20:54,235 --> 02:20:56,175
in addition to a variance for the proposed use,

2743
02:20:56,255 --> 02:20:57,935
a variance is required for the insufficient,

2744
02:20:57,935 --> 02:21:01,575
insufficient frontage as a minimum of 125 feet

2745
02:21:01,575 --> 02:21:04,775
of frontage is required on a public street in MDR district.

2746
02:21:05,595 --> 02:21:08,135
So I, I think one of the points there is would,

2747
02:21:08,475 --> 02:21:11,575
and the applicant address this, are you defining this

2748
02:21:11,755 --> 02:21:13,255
or your intentions are

2749
02:21:13,255 --> 02:21:15,775
to make this a street going into this property

2750
02:21:16,205 --> 02:21:18,295
That would be a driveway serving the,

2751
02:21:18,515 --> 02:21:20,735
the units we're not subdividing here.

2752
02:21:21,245 --> 02:21:23,095
Well that's, that's not the point then

2753
02:21:23,095 --> 02:21:25,215
because Mrs. Owen and I think Mr.

2754
02:21:25,715 --> 02:21:27,615
Corbet both make a significant point,

2755
02:21:27,985 --> 02:21:29,295
which if you're not making

2756
02:21:29,295 --> 02:21:32,455
that a public road going into this versus an extended

2757
02:21:32,815 --> 02:21:36,095
driveway, you are severely undersized on the frontage.

2758
02:21:36,485 --> 02:21:37,855
Okay. The point is well taken.

2759
02:21:37,875 --> 02:21:39,135
If that's the board's decision,

2760
02:21:39,245 --> 02:21:41,695
then naturally we know the ordinary course we would have

2761
02:21:41,695 --> 02:21:45,455
to come back before you, which, so we would just ask

2762
02:21:45,455 --> 02:21:50,335
that the board address this application on

2763
02:21:50,335 --> 02:21:51,415
Second that We have before you tonight on

2764
02:21:51,415 --> 02:21:54,095
Folks I announced to have your cell phone shut off,

2765
02:21:54,195 --> 02:21:56,175
please shut your cell phones off

2766
02:21:56,175 --> 02:21:59,095
or any other gadgets that will create a distraction

2767
02:21:59,155 --> 02:22:00,895
or you may exit the room.

2768
02:22:01,515 --> 02:22:02,515
Please proceed.

2769
02:22:05,105 --> 02:22:07,015
Thank you. As I was stating, we will,

2770
02:22:07,015 --> 02:22:09,455
we will follow the ordinary course of the board requires us

2771
02:22:09,455 --> 02:22:14,095
to, and if we could receive either the staff memorandum

2772
02:22:14,115 --> 02:22:16,495
or just something in writing on the administrative decision

2773
02:22:16,515 --> 02:22:18,015
on that point, we would appreciate it.

2774
02:22:18,355 --> 02:22:20,855
Do you have a technical review plan on this yet?

2775
02:22:22,395 --> 02:22:23,975
No, at the outset, again,

2776
02:22:24,005 --> 02:22:26,845
because we are seeking a use variance,

2777
02:22:27,155 --> 02:22:30,885
this conceptual drawing that we have is the current plan.

2778
02:22:31,435 --> 02:22:33,005
Once we saw some of the requirements

2779
02:22:33,105 --> 02:22:35,485
for the zoning application itself, for that,

2780
02:22:35,485 --> 02:22:37,765
if we had plans available to give the board context,

2781
02:22:38,105 --> 02:22:39,565
we had them drawn up.

2782
02:22:40,385 --> 02:22:43,285
We have not, I'm I'm assuming you're referring

2783
02:22:43,285 --> 02:22:45,245
to a technical review by the planning board?

2784
02:22:46,385 --> 02:22:48,685
No, Ms. Oland, you want to jump in on that

2785
02:22:48,695 --> 02:22:51,125
where the technical review would come in on this?

2786
02:22:51,765 --> 02:22:53,725
I don't know. And,

2787
02:22:53,825 --> 02:22:57,685
and how this is coming to us prior to,

2788
02:22:58,625 --> 02:22:59,765
to anything like that.

2789
02:23:00,045 --> 02:23:03,565
I mean, you're obviously kind of caught off guard

2790
02:23:03,625 --> 02:23:05,525
by the fact that you could end up having a

2791
02:23:05,525 --> 02:23:06,885
frontage requirement here.

2792
02:23:07,705 --> 02:23:10,445
So I'm, there's a lot of things going on here.

2793
02:23:10,505 --> 02:23:11,525
I'm just looking for clarity.

2794
02:23:12,025 --> 02:23:13,845
You chime in Ms. Soman if you'd like.

2795
02:23:13,845 --> 02:23:15,845
Technical review committee is, is part

2796
02:23:15,845 --> 02:23:16,925
of the internal review process

2797
02:23:16,955 --> 02:23:18,285
with the planning board application.

2798
02:23:18,475 --> 02:23:21,485
Okay. We have not received any application at this time.

2799
02:23:21,485 --> 02:23:26,005
There's no applications pending oftentimes for, for asks

2800
02:23:26,005 --> 02:23:27,805
of this or projects of this scale.

2801
02:23:27,985 --> 02:23:31,085
We may have concept discussions early on with the applicant.

2802
02:23:31,725 --> 02:23:34,165
I don't believe any of that has happened. Okay. So,

2803
02:23:34,165 --> 02:23:35,165
Alright.

2804
02:23:35,165 --> 02:23:35,925
So you haven't had any concept

2805
02:23:36,155 --> 02:23:38,005
conversations with any of the staff?

2806
02:23:38,625 --> 02:23:41,365
We have not, yeah. And I would

2807
02:23:42,025 --> 02:23:44,525
say caught off guard is different than we fundamentally

2808
02:23:44,845 --> 02:23:48,005
disagree with that position, but that is the normal course

2809
02:23:48,005 --> 02:23:49,845
and the process that we'll take it as it goes

2810
02:23:49,845 --> 02:23:51,245
and we'll work with this board on that.

2811
02:23:51,555 --> 02:23:53,885
Okay. And I, I don't know that I addressed both

2812
02:23:53,885 --> 02:23:55,725
of your questions, Mr.

2813
02:23:55,835 --> 02:23:59,205
Corbett. I, I think we got to the frontage issue

2814
02:23:59,305 --> 02:24:01,205
and if you could remind me of your second question,

2815
02:24:01,545 --> 02:24:04,925
Why we need really, why to go not just

2816
02:24:04,985 --> 02:24:06,325
for the multifamily,

2817
02:24:06,465 --> 02:24:10,925
but such an excessive number whereas, you know, one,

2818
02:24:11,045 --> 02:24:13,765
a single family would work but potentially options,

2819
02:24:14,055 --> 02:24:17,165
other options with the property rather than just, you know,

2820
02:24:17,385 --> 02:24:20,285
the most units that could be possibly fit in.

2821
02:24:22,195 --> 02:24:25,165
Yeah. So understood on that point, like I said, kind

2822
02:24:25,165 --> 02:24:27,685
of at the outset was that this is the amount

2823
02:24:27,685 --> 02:24:31,605
of density we believed we could do with the use, understand,

2824
02:24:31,605 --> 02:24:34,605
so that the board can fully consider what we're doing.

2825
02:24:35,065 --> 02:24:38,365
It could stay the same, it could go down at planning stage,

2826
02:24:38,545 --> 02:24:40,365
but this is at least the position

2827
02:24:40,365 --> 02:24:42,365
that this property owner would like to take it.

2828
02:24:42,505 --> 02:24:46,325
And I understand the idea of doing something different

2829
02:24:47,225 --> 02:24:48,245
or subdividing,

2830
02:24:48,425 --> 02:24:52,165
but with what this owner is proposing, this is what,

2831
02:24:52,355 --> 02:24:54,445
what they see as as their good views.

2832
02:24:54,445 --> 02:24:55,845
Well, I guess that's part of my question. It doesn't sound

2833
02:24:55,845 --> 02:24:56,925
like that's what he's proposing.

2834
02:24:57,025 --> 02:24:59,045
What's been brought to us is this is the most

2835
02:24:59,045 --> 02:25:00,085
that can possibly fit,

2836
02:25:00,085 --> 02:25:01,845
but we're not quite sure what we can do yet.

2837
02:25:02,585 --> 02:25:07,525
So I guess that I, I guess my question is, are you aware of

2838
02:25:07,585 --> 02:25:11,205
how excessive of an ask this is to be coming in off the bat

2839
02:25:11,235 --> 02:25:12,805
with 156 units?

2840
02:25:14,885 --> 02:25:15,925
I think we're aware

2841
02:25:15,925 --> 02:25:19,285
that it's the density we believe was within line

2842
02:25:19,285 --> 02:25:20,805
with other projects in the area,

2843
02:25:21,445 --> 02:25:23,565
specifically the abutting hillside estate.

2844
02:25:23,565 --> 02:25:26,125
That's how we calculated our density in the first instance

2845
02:25:26,765 --> 02:25:28,405
and that's how many units we came with.

2846
02:25:28,425 --> 02:25:30,685
And that is what we are proposing tonight.

2847
02:25:30,765 --> 02:25:32,845
I I wanna be clear that's what the application said.

2848
02:25:32,925 --> 02:25:35,645
I think the purpose of what I wanted to make clear is that

2849
02:25:35,645 --> 02:25:38,685
with concerns about safety welfare,

2850
02:25:39,455 --> 02:25:42,325
those can be addressed at a planning stage.

2851
02:25:42,325 --> 02:25:44,445
If they say, well we don't think this is feasible.

2852
02:25:45,385 --> 02:25:48,525
So what I was using that for is to say for general welfare

2853
02:25:48,825 --> 02:25:51,085
and safety concerns, those would be addressed.

2854
02:25:51,105 --> 02:25:54,365
We do believe we could do this at the proposed density,

2855
02:25:56,165 --> 02:25:58,005
albeit if you disagree, that is your position.

2856
02:25:59,235 --> 02:26:00,725
Yeah, I think, I think I do

2857
02:26:04,145 --> 02:26:05,145
Ms.

2858
02:26:05,145 --> 02:26:05,465
Ms. Moore,

2859
02:26:06,985 --> 02:26:10,805
My first question is, you compare it to

2860
02:26:11,865 --> 02:26:15,045
single family or manufactured housing or campgrounds.

2861
02:26:16,145 --> 02:26:20,405
One the manufactured housing has, they're single

2862
02:26:20,825 --> 02:26:23,085
and they have a frontage requirement

2863
02:26:23,145 --> 02:26:25,405
and campgrounds have some pretty strict rules.

2864
02:26:26,145 --> 02:26:29,365
How do you see the similarities? Because I can't see them.

2865
02:26:30,425 --> 02:26:32,925
So what I, I wasn't comparing it to those uses.

2866
02:26:32,925 --> 02:26:33,965
What I was saying is

2867
02:26:33,965 --> 02:26:37,765
that under the ordinance we can't do a multifamily use like

2868
02:26:37,765 --> 02:26:40,365
this, albeit it would be more consistent with the character

2869
02:26:40,365 --> 02:26:43,325
of the neighborhood as opposed to a campground

2870
02:26:43,585 --> 02:26:47,565
or a manufactured housing development,

2871
02:26:47,565 --> 02:26:48,645
which we could do by Right.

2872
02:26:48,915 --> 02:26:51,325
Well you can't do the manufactured housing,

2873
02:26:51,345 --> 02:26:52,405
you don't have the frontage.

2874
02:26:53,665 --> 02:26:56,885
If they did manufactured housing, they would have to go

2875
02:26:56,885 --> 02:26:57,925
through alternative routes

2876
02:26:57,925 --> 02:26:59,405
to wanna address the frontage issue

2877
02:26:59,545 --> 02:27:02,325
and two, establish either roadways or culverts in there.

2878
02:27:02,915 --> 02:27:05,605
Okay. I guess I'll step in for Ms. Moore

2879
02:27:05,605 --> 02:27:07,325
and I think we're having a tough time is you're saying

2880
02:27:07,465 --> 02:27:10,605
you're stating permitted uses that aren't permitted though

2881
02:27:11,825 --> 02:27:14,245
and it's, it just keeps coming up with Well,

2882
02:27:14,245 --> 02:27:15,605
that's a fundamental disagreement

2883
02:27:15,745 --> 02:27:17,445
or at least that's my view on it,

2884
02:27:17,465 --> 02:27:21,965
but that's just a statement I guess

2885
02:27:22,805 --> 02:27:24,725
I, i is are campgrounds

2886
02:27:24,785 --> 02:27:28,365
and manufactured parks an approved use in this zone?

2887
02:27:28,365 --> 02:27:29,405
This zone? Yeah, I have it. It

2888
02:27:29,405 --> 02:27:30,405
Is okay.

2889
02:27:30,405 --> 02:27:32,325
They are, yes. Alright. So it's, I guess why you're

2890
02:27:32,925 --> 02:27:35,485
referencing this as an alternative. Am I correct?

2891
02:27:36,345 --> 02:27:38,245
I'm referencing, I'm referencing them

2892
02:27:38,385 --> 02:27:40,285
as permitted uses in this district

2893
02:27:40,285 --> 02:27:42,165
that are inconsistent with the neighborhood.

2894
02:27:42,485 --> 02:27:44,245
I see. And if that makes sense. Right.

2895
02:27:44,605 --> 02:27:46,405
We're proposing a use that's more consistent

2896
02:27:46,405 --> 02:27:48,485
with the character of the neighborhood, albeit

2897
02:27:48,625 --> 02:27:50,125
that's why we're here for a variance

2898
02:27:50,125 --> 02:27:53,165
because it is not permitted under what's listed.

2899
02:27:53,165 --> 02:27:54,325
You're looking at the image

2900
02:27:54,385 --> 02:27:57,685
of the radius within this a half mile of this

2901
02:27:57,825 --> 02:28:02,005
and you're seeing what you are seeing more as

2902
02:28:02,645 --> 02:28:05,205
a dominant use such as the hillside estates.

2903
02:28:06,065 --> 02:28:10,235
And you're defining that, that aspect as reasonable

2904
02:28:10,455 --> 02:28:11,635
to this Correct?

2905
02:28:12,975 --> 02:28:13,995
I'm saying yes. I'm saying

2906
02:28:13,995 --> 02:28:18,195
what we're proposing is more in line with those close units

2907
02:28:18,375 --> 02:28:19,915
or the hillside of states.

2908
02:28:19,985 --> 02:28:20,985
There's the,

2909
02:28:21,985 --> 02:28:22,985
The radius.

2910
02:28:23,585 --> 02:28:26,245
Yes. Within the radius there's also the Benjamin Chase

2911
02:28:26,315 --> 02:28:28,885
mill and there's other uses in buildings

2912
02:28:28,885 --> 02:28:30,725
that are closer in line

2913
02:28:30,725 --> 02:28:34,005
with a multifamily apartment style living as opposed

2914
02:28:34,065 --> 02:28:36,125
to those two uses that I listed. Okay. I

2915
02:28:36,125 --> 02:28:37,205
Have a question regarding that.

2916
02:28:37,205 --> 02:28:40,085
This is Moore. So regarding the spirit of the ordinance,

2917
02:28:41,485 --> 02:28:43,925
hillside was built in 1972

2918
02:28:44,465 --> 02:28:47,405
and about 10 years later is when the ordinance changed.

2919
02:28:48,145 --> 02:28:50,965
So it's been changed for 44 years.

2920
02:28:51,065 --> 02:28:53,685
So how I don't comparing the two together,

2921
02:28:54,275 --> 02:28:56,045
they're not the same but are the same.

2922
02:28:56,965 --> 02:28:58,765
I I do understand that distinction.

2923
02:28:58,765 --> 02:29:01,285
Hillside does predate the enactment of

2924
02:29:01,285 --> 02:29:02,365
what would be this district.

2925
02:29:02,425 --> 02:29:04,725
So it is already an allowed use

2926
02:29:04,725 --> 02:29:06,165
because it predates the ordinance.

2927
02:29:06,655 --> 02:29:09,445
There is also, again, the Benjamin Chase mill,

2928
02:29:09,445 --> 02:29:10,485
which I would represent

2929
02:29:10,485 --> 02:29:13,565
to the board was established in 2002, which was would be

2930
02:29:13,565 --> 02:29:14,965
after the MDR district.

2931
02:29:15,725 --> 02:29:18,085
While I did search to the extent I could

2932
02:29:18,105 --> 02:29:20,045
to find their variance application

2933
02:29:20,105 --> 02:29:22,485
or meeting minutes, it predates what's

2934
02:29:22,485 --> 02:29:24,245
available on the internet.

2935
02:29:24,245 --> 02:29:25,565
It might be available in person, but

2936
02:29:25,665 --> 02:29:27,525
Do you know how many units are at that one?

2937
02:29:27,965 --> 02:29:30,125
I believe it's 36 units. That's

2938
02:29:30,125 --> 02:29:31,125
Different.

2939
02:29:31,125 --> 02:29:31,725
Which Different? I'm not gonna

2940
02:29:31,955 --> 02:29:32,925
math, but they're different.

2941
02:29:34,495 --> 02:29:35,885
Don't Ask lawyers to do math,

2942
02:29:35,905 --> 02:29:37,445
but I do agree that that is different.

2943
02:29:37,875 --> 02:29:40,805
Okay. Understanding

2944
02:29:40,805 --> 02:29:43,165
that Benjamin Chase Mill is utilizing

2945
02:29:43,185 --> 02:29:44,845
and is an existing structure.

2946
02:29:44,855 --> 02:29:47,765
Right. And and this is significantly

2947
02:29:47,795 --> 02:29:50,325
different. Go ahead.

2948
02:29:50,325 --> 02:29:51,885
Correct. This would be a new development,

2949
02:29:51,885 --> 02:29:53,685
but that's an existing structure with

2950
02:29:53,845 --> 02:29:55,885
what would've been a non-conforming use at the time.

2951
02:29:57,315 --> 02:29:59,125
Okay. I, I've jumbled around,

2952
02:29:59,325 --> 02:30:00,925
I think I may have interrupted Mr.

2953
02:30:00,955 --> 02:30:03,565
Corbitt or Mr. Moore, so I'm going to step back.

2954
02:30:04,225 --> 02:30:05,245
You all set Mr. Moore?

2955
02:30:05,805 --> 02:30:07,165
I am for right now. Mr. Corbitt?

2956
02:30:07,165 --> 02:30:09,445
Yeah, I interrupted her. That's all right. Mr. D Dietzel.

2957
02:30:10,905 --> 02:30:12,965
I'm set. Mr. Chair, Mr. Tripp,

2958
02:30:17,445 --> 02:30:20,765
I too find it fairly amazing that you're asking

2959
02:30:20,825 --> 02:30:25,325
for a 156 units that

2960
02:30:34,545 --> 02:30:35,405
All set Mr. Trip?

2961
02:30:35,885 --> 02:30:37,085
I for now I am,

2962
02:30:37,265 --> 02:30:38,265
Yes.

2963
02:30:38,265 --> 02:30:39,285
Okay. Gesturing any of the alternates?

2964
02:30:40,385 --> 02:30:42,845
I'm all set, Sir. All right, Mr. Bumba all set.

2965
02:30:44,285 --> 02:30:45,605
I find, you know, I,

2966
02:30:45,625 --> 02:30:49,205
and I'm kind of perplexed on the reasonable use,

2967
02:30:49,635 --> 02:30:52,605
it's a basis for which this board operates and,

2968
02:30:52,785 --> 02:30:56,125
and I'm in kind of carrying Mrs.

2969
02:30:56,315 --> 02:31:00,765
Morin's comments to the reasonable use

2970
02:31:02,385 --> 02:31:05,965
and I don't know what the density of, of this,

2971
02:31:05,985 --> 02:31:10,485
if there were a manufactured mobile home park

2972
02:31:11,105 --> 02:31:13,845
or manufactured housing development would be,

2973
02:31:15,345 --> 02:31:18,725
but I'm thinking that the density would even be less than,

2974
02:31:19,225 --> 02:31:21,485
you know, once you went through planning and,

2975
02:31:21,665 --> 02:31:26,205
and some technical discussions with town staff, you know,

2976
02:31:26,325 --> 02:31:29,285
I probably can imagine that there'd be a diminishment

2977
02:31:29,345 --> 02:31:32,645
of this footprint might be all of 10 units

2978
02:31:33,305 --> 02:31:35,765
if this board were to approve this application.

2979
02:31:38,065 --> 02:31:39,485
But even decreasing this

2980
02:31:39,545 --> 02:31:43,205
by 10 units is significantly larger than the density

2981
02:31:43,435 --> 02:31:46,005
that would be for the approved use

2982
02:31:47,325 --> 02:31:52,285
manufactured homes or, or a standard regular development.

2983
02:31:52,285 --> 02:31:53,285
Correct?

2984
02:31:55,135 --> 02:31:56,365
Sorry, did you end that with a,

2985
02:31:56,365 --> 02:31:57,645
with a question? I did apologize.

2986
02:31:57,955 --> 02:31:59,125
Okay. It was very good.

2987
02:31:59,365 --> 02:32:01,165
I I I wouldn't disagree with you there.

2988
02:32:01,745 --> 02:32:04,405
And if the, the point is well taken

2989
02:32:04,905 --> 02:32:08,885
and if I were to just come back to the, the salient point

2990
02:32:09,145 --> 02:32:11,765
of this application is a, is a use variance

2991
02:32:12,645 --> 02:32:15,045
allowing a multifamily on this lot.

2992
02:32:15,805 --> 02:32:18,725
Albeit if this board has conditions

2993
02:32:19,875 --> 02:32:22,365
that they would like us to meet or has disagreement

2994
02:32:22,365 --> 02:32:26,005
or input on what would be the appropriate amount of units,

2995
02:32:26,385 --> 02:32:30,645
we would be open to that discussion as it comes again,

2996
02:32:30,645 --> 02:32:32,405
what we presented to you as a proposal with

2997
02:32:32,405 --> 02:32:35,565
what we believe is the, what would be the maximum density

2998
02:32:35,875 --> 02:32:38,405
that in our position we feel as reasonable.

2999
02:32:38,685 --> 02:32:40,485
Albeit, I understand that there's disagreement,

3000
02:32:40,485 --> 02:32:41,805
the points are are very well taken.

3001
02:32:42,755 --> 02:32:44,845
Yeah. So it's not unusual for the board

3002
02:32:44,905 --> 02:32:49,525
to place requirements as a matter of conditions of approval.

3003
02:32:50,275 --> 02:32:55,005
However, being on this board as long as I have,

3004
02:32:55,695 --> 02:33:00,365
we've also always had some significant, some solid

3005
02:33:01,215 --> 02:33:04,045
plans that have been presented, not speculative

3006
02:33:04,105 --> 02:33:06,245
of we're gonna go shoot for the moon

3007
02:33:06,245 --> 02:33:09,325
and then see if the zoning board curbs it down

3008
02:33:09,325 --> 02:33:12,645
because the, the zoning board is not designed

3009
02:33:12,865 --> 02:33:17,245
to look at the aspects of snow removal, snow storage,

3010
02:33:17,765 --> 02:33:21,485
dumpsters, curbs, flow, water flow, impervious services,

3011
02:33:22,505 --> 02:33:24,205
how sewer and water are going to be done.

3012
02:33:24,205 --> 02:33:25,245
That's not our purview.

3013
02:33:25,705 --> 02:33:28,285
And so it almost is premature for us

3014
02:33:28,425 --> 02:33:30,165
to delve into that for you.

3015
02:33:30,885 --> 02:33:33,125
Other plans of this size that have come

3016
02:33:33,125 --> 02:33:36,165
before this board typically are, are, are

3017
02:33:36,915 --> 02:33:40,245
exactly laid out when they are looking for that relief.

3018
02:33:41,445 --> 02:33:43,525
I don't think that I want to go out on a limb

3019
02:33:43,525 --> 02:33:45,725
and start telling you where you need to go

3020
02:33:45,905 --> 02:33:49,165
and what you need to do with this in order

3021
02:33:49,265 --> 02:33:50,685
for us to pass it.

3022
02:33:51,085 --> 02:33:53,365
I think that's premature in, in this

3023
02:33:53,925 --> 02:33:57,485
situation especially whereas the frontage requirement comes

3024
02:33:57,595 --> 02:33:59,005
into such a large question.

3025
02:34:00,405 --> 02:34:01,845
I, I do under understand that

3026
02:34:01,845 --> 02:34:04,685
and what I wanna make clear is that the application that's

3027
02:34:04,685 --> 02:34:06,565
before you is on its face

3028
02:34:06,635 --> 02:34:08,365
what we're putting forward to this board.

3029
02:34:08,555 --> 02:34:12,085
Okay. I'm not necessarily looking for you to tell us

3030
02:34:12,085 --> 02:34:13,525
how many units would be appropriate.

3031
02:34:14,005 --> 02:34:15,245
And what we're looking for again,

3032
02:34:15,245 --> 02:34:16,485
is, is what we put forward.

3033
02:34:16,765 --> 02:34:21,525
I this is not a, a non concrete, a non concrete application.

3034
02:34:21,785 --> 02:34:24,245
It does have obviously our conceptual plans in there,

3035
02:34:24,245 --> 02:34:26,245
but I don't think it's insufficient for this board

3036
02:34:26,265 --> 02:34:28,765
to rule on what we've put before it.

3037
02:34:29,905 --> 02:34:32,405
And for purposes of the reason why it's

3038
02:34:32,405 --> 02:34:33,965
before you in this fashion is

3039
02:34:33,965 --> 02:34:35,925
because again, at its very essence,

3040
02:34:35,995 --> 02:34:39,085
this first needs the use variance at a stage one

3041
02:34:39,705 --> 02:34:41,165
to expend funds

3042
02:34:41,185 --> 02:34:42,925
and the requirement to go through all of

3043
02:34:42,925 --> 02:34:43,925
that engineering process

3044
02:34:44,105 --> 02:34:46,325
and having someone drop extensive plans

3045
02:34:46,665 --> 02:34:48,685
and then go through a planning process

3046
02:34:48,785 --> 02:34:51,565
and come back to the board would be an immense,

3047
02:34:52,505 --> 02:34:53,525
an immense potential.

3048
02:34:54,045 --> 02:34:56,085
I don't want to call it a waste, it wouldn't be a waste,

3049
02:34:56,185 --> 02:34:58,365
but it would, it would be of significant cost.

3050
02:34:58,685 --> 02:35:00,725
Albeit again, I understood

3051
02:35:00,725 --> 02:35:02,565
and your, your point's well taken. But

3052
02:35:02,565 --> 02:35:04,565
To that same point, you say it's a use variance,

3053
02:35:04,735 --> 02:35:06,765
which means we're just voting on, you know,

3054
02:35:06,765 --> 02:35:08,765
it could be a three family house would be a

3055
02:35:08,765 --> 02:35:10,045
multi-family housing development.

3056
02:35:10,505 --> 02:35:13,245
So to say that we're just voting on a use variance,

3057
02:35:13,545 --> 02:35:18,005
but to have the conceptuality of 156 units, that's,

3058
02:35:19,555 --> 02:35:21,965
it's kind of, you're talking outta no, no disrespect,

3059
02:35:21,965 --> 02:35:23,685
but you're talking outta both sides of your mouth with that

3060
02:35:24,305 --> 02:35:29,085
it ha is it just for a multi-family or is it for 156 units?

3061
02:35:29,325 --> 02:35:32,685
I I do feel this pretty vague. So

3062
02:35:33,085 --> 02:35:34,085
I will clarify.

3063
02:35:34,085 --> 02:35:36,525
It is absolutely an application for the use variance

3064
02:35:36,525 --> 02:35:39,765
for multifamily for 156 units and six buildings.

3065
02:35:39,765 --> 02:35:41,125
That is the application that's

3066
02:35:41,125 --> 02:35:42,565
before you if the characterization

3067
02:35:42,565 --> 02:35:44,645
or if the character of the project changes in the future,

3068
02:35:45,025 --> 02:35:46,245
it could be a different application

3069
02:35:46,245 --> 02:35:48,485
before you, I do just wanna make that clear

3070
02:35:49,265 --> 02:35:53,765
and I, the point of proposing the 156 units at

3071
02:35:53,765 --> 02:35:56,925
that density was so that we don't come to the ZBA

3072
02:35:56,925 --> 02:35:59,245
and say we would like a multifamily use

3073
02:35:59,745 --> 02:36:01,365
and you say, okay, go ahead.

3074
02:36:01,425 --> 02:36:03,285
You can have multifamily and then we, sorry to

3075
02:36:03,285 --> 02:36:04,685
Interrupt, but if I have to play devil's advocate to

3076
02:36:04,685 --> 02:36:06,325
that exact point that you don't want to come

3077
02:36:06,325 --> 02:36:09,125
before us twice, but if I approve 1 56

3078
02:36:09,145 --> 02:36:10,725
and then the planning board shoots that down,

3079
02:36:10,725 --> 02:36:11,845
you have to come back before me.

3080
02:36:11,905 --> 02:36:14,805
So why not just come here with one ironed out number?

3081
02:36:15,595 --> 02:36:17,045
That is the ironed out number.

3082
02:36:17,285 --> 02:36:18,405
I I, I feel I'm,

3083
02:36:18,425 --> 02:36:20,685
I'm leaving a little bit to be desired there.

3084
02:36:20,685 --> 02:36:22,325
That's the ironed out number that we have

3085
02:36:22,325 --> 02:36:24,325
before you right now what I'm, what I'm saying

3086
02:36:24,465 --> 02:36:27,365
and just if I could finish that point quickly,

3087
02:36:28,035 --> 02:36:29,925
what I'm saying is we did not want to come

3088
02:36:29,925 --> 02:36:31,885
before this board simply saying we want

3089
02:36:31,885 --> 02:36:34,005
to do a multi-family use, which we could have

3090
02:36:34,745 --> 02:36:36,405
and then went forward on planning.

3091
02:36:36,475 --> 02:36:37,965
They see our plan and say, well,

3092
02:36:37,965 --> 02:36:40,765
the ZBA couldn't have adequately decided on all the criteria

3093
02:36:41,155 --> 02:36:44,325
because they weren't considering 156 units

3094
02:36:44,325 --> 02:36:45,525
when they made their decision.

3095
02:36:45,625 --> 02:36:48,765
So that is the application that is before you. Alright,

3096
02:36:48,785 --> 02:36:50,805
So you essentially want to test the board

3097
02:36:50,825 --> 02:36:52,805
and see if you can get the use approved

3098
02:36:53,265 --> 02:36:55,405
and then you'll go forward after that.

3099
02:36:55,635 --> 02:36:59,685
It's not unusual for someone to try and put the ZBA

3100
02:36:59,685 --> 02:37:00,885
before the planning board

3101
02:37:00,885 --> 02:37:03,445
because of the, the greater expense to the,

3102
02:37:04,005 --> 02:37:05,125
through the planning process.

3103
02:37:05,345 --> 02:37:06,525
Is that about what we're hearing?

3104
02:37:07,325 --> 02:37:09,605
I wouldn't call it a, a test of the board so much

3105
02:37:09,625 --> 02:37:12,245
as we are, this is what we're proposing is Yeah,

3106
02:37:12,245 --> 02:37:13,805
I don't mean multifamily in this fashion.

3107
02:37:14,085 --> 02:37:15,805
I I don't mean it in that way, but you want us

3108
02:37:15,805 --> 02:37:16,925
to make a decision whether

3109
02:37:16,925 --> 02:37:18,685
or not you can have this approved use.

3110
02:37:19,185 --> 02:37:21,365
You understand the frictions that you're starting to see,

3111
02:37:21,425 --> 02:37:23,005
but you want us to proceed with this?

3112
02:37:23,785 --> 02:37:25,445
That's correct. Okay. We would like you to proceed

3113
02:37:25,505 --> 02:37:27,845
and I do understand that we have many members

3114
02:37:27,845 --> 02:37:29,965
of the community that are gonna come before you and speak

3115
02:37:31,305 --> 02:37:34,325
and I don't believe you'd be able to get to everybody

3116
02:37:34,465 --> 02:37:36,965
and I hope people understand we would consent

3117
02:37:36,965 --> 02:37:39,165
to a continuance so that everyone can be heard

3118
02:37:39,165 --> 02:37:41,165
and are happy to come back before this board.

3119
02:37:41,195 --> 02:37:43,765
Alright, well we made the board disclosure beforehand

3120
02:37:44,065 --> 02:37:47,205
and I can see that the clock is running on Mr.

3121
02:37:47,255 --> 02:37:48,405
Corby. You all set to proceed.

3122
02:37:48,885 --> 02:37:52,565
Alright, let me just get back to the criteria of this lot.

3123
02:37:53,105 --> 02:37:56,645
Is there a, this is a downhill grade going down to the,

3124
02:37:57,105 --> 02:38:00,165
the footprint of this as I is, am I correct in there?

3125
02:38:01,405 --> 02:38:02,405
I would need to look

3126
02:38:02,405 --> 02:38:04,325
and see if we have a topographical plan

3127
02:38:04,345 --> 02:38:05,805
for you. I I couldn't

3128
02:38:05,805 --> 02:38:06,805
Speak to that.

3129
02:38:06,805 --> 02:38:07,445
Page two meridian submits.

3130
02:38:07,445 --> 02:38:10,445
It looks like you have gradient lines there for slope

3131
02:38:10,785 --> 02:38:14,165
and I just, I just wanna verify that

3132
02:38:14,345 --> 02:38:16,005
that's in fact what I'm seeing.

3133
02:38:16,845 --> 02:38:18,365
Perhaps your client can speak to

3134
02:38:18,365 --> 02:38:20,605
That, that would likely be a good question for Mr.

3135
02:38:20,905 --> 02:38:22,525
Braddo who drew up the plans.

3136
02:38:22,995 --> 02:38:26,325
Okay. Mr. Braddo are, you are from Meridian? Yes. Okay.

3137
02:38:26,535 --> 02:38:31,045
Would you like to have a seat and gentlemen? Mr. Prevention?

3138
02:38:31,045 --> 02:38:33,445
Do we have that other mic as work? Mr. Ur?

3139
02:38:33,625 --> 02:38:37,605
You're welcome to use that other mic. Mic. Okay, go ahead,

3140
02:38:37,835 --> 02:38:40,245
Doug Broder Road, Meridian Land Services for the record?

3141
02:38:41,275 --> 02:38:45,645
Yeah, the gray does go down off the fronting street towards,

3142
02:38:46,155 --> 02:38:49,805
into the property and then it's, it does grade back up.

3143
02:38:49,805 --> 02:38:50,965
There are some rolling hills

3144
02:38:51,585 --> 02:38:54,405
So it goes downhill, flattens out and comes back up.

3145
02:38:55,115 --> 02:38:56,765
Yeah. All right. In generality,

3146
02:38:57,225 --> 02:38:58,525
How far off is it?

3147
02:38:58,525 --> 02:39:00,165
There's was the swamp

3148
02:39:00,265 --> 02:39:03,285
or the runoff from Beaver Lake there is that, is that

3149
02:39:04,085 --> 02:39:05,085
How far off?

3150
02:39:05,085 --> 02:39:05,965
I guess I don't understand.

3151
02:39:06,435 --> 02:39:07,525
It's down there somewhere.

3152
02:39:07,725 --> 02:39:10,725
I, I know that Beaver Brook starts or

3153
02:39:10,725 --> 02:39:14,405
Originates if, if you look at the plan on the plan, right?

3154
02:39:14,465 --> 02:39:15,965
Yep. You can see there's a thick line

3155
02:39:16,545 --> 02:39:18,485
that's effectively the edge of the waterfront.

3156
02:39:18,795 --> 02:39:21,605
Okay. It, it's kind of the back water area beaver pond.

3157
02:39:22,005 --> 02:39:25,445
I wouldn't characterize it as I believe it. Chief

3158
02:39:25,745 --> 02:39:27,405
Siento would, would disagree with you.

3159
02:39:27,405 --> 02:39:29,005
Okay. About whether it's a pond or not.

3160
02:39:29,475 --> 02:39:33,485
Well, it, it seems more like swampy to me, but I wouldn't

3161
02:39:33,965 --> 02:39:35,045
Consider this, this end of it. Yes.

3162
02:39:35,275 --> 02:39:38,365
Yeah. The other end. I agree. Yes, that's open water.

3163
02:39:39,165 --> 02:39:40,565
Okay. It's kind of, but like a

3164
02:39:40,565 --> 02:39:41,885
canal they built at some point.

3165
02:39:42,515 --> 02:39:45,845
Okay. And there is a dam immediately to the cell,

3166
02:39:45,845 --> 02:39:49,285
to the property, which is still owned by the Benjamin Chase.

3167
02:39:49,285 --> 02:39:50,725
Chase Mill. Mill. Yep.

3168
02:39:51,065 --> 02:39:53,565
And I believe it, it it's channelized

3169
02:39:53,625 --> 02:39:55,365
and at some point it goes into a pen stalk

3170
02:39:55,395 --> 02:39:57,165
that I believe still goes under the mill

3171
02:39:58,105 --> 02:39:59,165
in a pipe fashion at

3172
02:39:59,165 --> 02:39:59,765
Some point. It does. Yep.

3173
02:40:00,205 --> 02:40:02,685
I, I don't know the specifics of it,

3174
02:40:02,685 --> 02:40:04,445
it's just from what I understand. Sure.

3175
02:40:04,795 --> 02:40:07,285
Okay. Any questions for Mr.

3176
02:40:07,685 --> 02:40:09,645
Ura or the engineer from the board?

3177
02:40:11,985 --> 02:40:14,325
No, thank you Mr. Trip.

3178
02:40:15,345 --> 02:40:17,885
So are there any wetlands on the property?

3179
02:40:20,445 --> 02:40:24,205
I mean, obviously the pond to the south is a wetland

3180
02:40:24,205 --> 02:40:26,605
that's part of the back frontage of the property,

3181
02:40:27,305 --> 02:40:28,845
if you will, or fronts on that water.

3182
02:40:28,845 --> 02:40:32,085
There's also a wetland on the eastern side,

3183
02:40:32,535 --> 02:40:34,725
which you can see, which is less than one acre.

3184
02:40:34,825 --> 02:40:38,565
So it doesn't, I don't believe it requires your buffer

3185
02:40:38,565 --> 02:40:40,805
requirements at that point from a wetland. But,

3186
02:40:41,065 --> 02:40:43,445
So I guess the, the, the real question would be

3187
02:40:44,145 --> 02:40:46,165
in the area that you have the plan

3188
02:40:46,675 --> 02:40:48,965
that you wanna put the 156 units,

3189
02:40:49,225 --> 02:40:50,565
is there any wetland in there?

3190
02:40:50,915 --> 02:40:53,685
There's no wetlands where the physical buildings are,

3191
02:40:53,985 --> 02:40:55,525
but again, if you look on the plan, right,

3192
02:40:55,645 --> 02:40:57,245
I don't have the plan up in front of me.

3193
02:40:57,245 --> 02:40:59,925
There's a wetland that the parking lot's very close to

3194
02:40:59,925 --> 02:41:02,285
that it would appear, would be impacted.

3195
02:41:03,255 --> 02:41:05,025
Alright. We need a,

3196
02:41:06,805 --> 02:41:08,545
It appears that one of the buildings right on

3197
02:41:08,785 --> 02:41:09,825
the wetland setback,

3198
02:41:09,825 --> 02:41:10,825
Right?

3199
02:41:10,825 --> 02:41:12,105
Yeah. Oh, on the setback. Yeah.

3200
02:41:12,985 --> 02:41:15,545
I, I think what you're looking at is the shoreland

3201
02:41:15,695 --> 02:41:16,985
setback at the state level.

3202
02:41:17,945 --> 02:41:21,345
Building B your markup says 75 foot wetland building

3203
02:41:21,375 --> 02:41:23,865
setback on concept A

3204
02:41:26,185 --> 02:41:26,825
I don't have money,

3205
02:41:35,795 --> 02:41:38,115
Unfortunately this concept A was

3206
02:41:38,225 --> 02:41:39,515
shouldn't have been submitted.

3207
02:41:39,545 --> 02:41:43,395
This was based off the town GIS data prior

3208
02:41:43,455 --> 02:41:45,355
to us having an actual survey done.

3209
02:41:45,495 --> 02:41:47,115
So the page,

3210
02:41:50,975 --> 02:41:52,115
did we actually submit this?

3211
02:41:55,415 --> 02:41:58,035
The, the, the second, the second page is

3212
02:41:58,035 --> 02:42:01,915
what the concept plan is based on the actual survey data

3213
02:42:01,935 --> 02:42:03,155
and delineated wetlands.

3214
02:42:04,615 --> 02:42:07,235
So I think there was a bit of a mix up in what was submitted

3215
02:42:07,495 --> 02:42:09,275
To disregard the initial concept A

3216
02:42:10,175 --> 02:42:11,175
Yes, please.

3217
02:42:11,715 --> 02:42:14,115
Although the next one is concept A as well

3218
02:42:14,115 --> 02:42:17,635
because it was revised to fit to the actual site data,

3219
02:42:22,845 --> 02:42:25,675
which in all fairness, I was actually traveling when

3220
02:42:25,675 --> 02:42:26,835
that plan was put together

3221
02:42:26,855 --> 02:42:28,915
and another associate of mine put together

3222
02:42:29,535 --> 02:42:30,535
Or advisor.

3223
02:42:30,535 --> 02:42:33,195
Oh, we understand that, that the intentions here

3224
02:42:33,295 --> 02:42:36,035
to see if the use can be approved by this board or not.

3225
02:42:36,735 --> 02:42:39,795
So correct it the exactness we under, I've understood that,

3226
02:42:39,795 --> 02:42:43,195
that there's some variable here that, that

3227
02:42:44,015 --> 02:42:47,115
if this board were to approve, I think you realize

3228
02:42:47,185 --> 02:42:49,475
that you're starting to run into some other issues

3229
02:42:49,545 --> 02:42:52,635
that you would have to go through in order to get to

3230
02:42:52,635 --> 02:42:53,915
that final point through

3231
02:42:53,915 --> 02:42:54,915
This board.

3232
02:42:54,915 --> 02:42:56,715
Oh yeah, certainly. I mean the planning process is gonna

3233
02:42:56,715 --> 02:42:59,795
require a fair amount on the local side,

3234
02:42:59,855 --> 02:43:03,275
but also, I mean there's quite an extensive list

3235
02:43:03,275 --> 02:43:05,275
of state permits that'll be necessary as well.

3236
02:43:05,625 --> 02:43:08,195
Okay. You know, including an alteration of terrain permit,

3237
02:43:08,355 --> 02:43:12,365
a wetlands permit, a shoreline protection permit, as well as

3238
02:43:13,085 --> 02:43:14,405
I think Chester Road in

3239
02:43:14,405 --> 02:43:16,805
that area is still under state jurisdiction.

3240
02:43:17,005 --> 02:43:18,405
I don't believe it's part of urban compact.

3241
02:43:18,625 --> 02:43:20,845
So it would need a driveway permit from DOT.

3242
02:43:21,105 --> 02:43:23,245
Yep. Okay. Mr. Corbin? I'm sorry.

3243
02:43:24,145 --> 02:43:25,805
Yep. No other questions. Alright, very good.

3244
02:43:25,805 --> 02:43:27,445
Everybody else all set? Mr. Trip?

3245
02:43:28,825 --> 02:43:30,765
If, if I may just in terms of the density,

3246
02:43:31,045 --> 02:43:34,365
I guess I would characterize it as the application is up

3247
02:43:34,365 --> 02:43:36,925
to 156 units, potentially

3248
02:43:37,705 --> 02:43:42,565
Up to 160 units, 156 I is what we correct.

3249
02:43:42,945 --> 02:43:43,965
That's correct. Yeah.

3250
02:43:44,515 --> 02:43:46,525
Okay. So I mean, if it did reduce, I know Mr.

3251
02:43:46,675 --> 02:43:49,645
Corbitt, you know, mentioned earlier that well,

3252
02:43:49,645 --> 02:43:52,085
if you only get 130 approved, you'll have to come back

3253
02:43:52,085 --> 02:43:54,045
to the CBA and my experience.

3254
02:43:54,045 --> 02:43:57,605
That hasn't typically been the normal course,

3255
02:43:57,705 --> 02:44:01,085
but I guess just to clarify on that, it would be up to 156.

3256
02:44:01,085 --> 02:44:04,725
Right? So if there were less units later that were approved,

3257
02:44:04,865 --> 02:44:06,925
we wouldn't have to come back in front of the ZBA

3258
02:44:07,065 --> 02:44:09,685
to have you approve a lower use or density.

3259
02:44:10,705 --> 02:44:13,565
But again, we're not asking for a a a density this evening,

3260
02:44:13,715 --> 02:44:16,005
it's exactly the use

3261
02:44:16,465 --> 02:44:18,805
To me it's a reasonable use versus an excessive one.

3262
02:44:18,945 --> 02:44:20,245
So to come up and ask for the most

3263
02:44:20,245 --> 02:44:22,605
Excessive, I mean, I guess the question I would ask is if

3264
02:44:22,605 --> 02:44:24,885
you could define what excessive means that would be

3265
02:44:25,265 --> 02:44:26,765
The burden of the applicant, unfortunately.

3266
02:44:27,275 --> 02:44:32,045
Sure. Anything else Mr.

3267
02:44:32,365 --> 02:44:33,365
Du?

3268
02:44:33,825 --> 02:44:35,725
Not unless you have other questions, members.

3269
02:44:35,945 --> 02:44:37,925
Not that I, not that I can think of right now.

3270
02:44:38,765 --> 02:44:41,845
I have one for the Attorney. Feel free.

3271
02:44:41,865 --> 02:44:46,165
You state put Mr. Er is fine. Go ahead Ms. Moore.

3272
02:44:46,255 --> 02:44:49,365
Thank you. Can you tell me what your,

3273
02:44:49,505 --> 02:44:54,285
the loss your applicant would have by following in the MDR

3274
02:44:54,345 --> 02:44:57,685
by putting whatever the say,

3275
02:44:58,315 --> 02:45:02,325
nine single family homes instead of this apartment building?

3276
02:45:03,015 --> 02:45:05,085
Sorry, can you repeat the beginning of your question?

3277
02:45:05,165 --> 02:45:06,845
I heard the second half, but not the first.

3278
02:45:07,905 --> 02:45:12,605
So what loss would your applicant have if they were

3279
02:45:12,605 --> 02:45:14,165
to follow the MDR rules?

3280
02:45:16,545 --> 02:45:17,645
You mean if, if they went through

3281
02:45:17,645 --> 02:45:18,765
with a subdivision process

3282
02:45:20,225 --> 02:45:24,285
Or put Well, I wrote, I thought of it

3283
02:45:24,285 --> 02:45:25,485
before the frontage issue.

3284
02:45:25,545 --> 02:45:29,565
So if the frontage issue wasn't there, what type

3285
02:45:29,565 --> 02:45:32,085
of loss would they have if they weren't able

3286
02:45:32,145 --> 02:45:34,945
to do the apartments?

3287
02:45:35,655 --> 02:45:37,705
Yeah, I think, I think again, that sort of gets

3288
02:45:37,765 --> 02:45:41,785
to the substantial justice point that I raised about sort

3289
02:45:41,785 --> 02:45:45,145
of, it it can comport with all of the other concerns,

3290
02:45:45,545 --> 02:45:48,025
albeit yes, it would be less units

3291
02:45:48,245 --> 02:45:50,865
or less livable spaces on the property.

3292
02:45:52,585 --> 02:45:54,785
I don't know that I clearly answered your question there. So

3293
02:45:55,765 --> 02:45:56,905
I'm trying to understand.

3294
02:45:57,305 --> 02:46:00,225
I think more for hardship as well,

3295
02:46:01,285 --> 02:46:04,505
the financial loss your applicant would have if it was

3296
02:46:04,565 --> 02:46:08,425
denied compared to if they had fall, if they followed

3297
02:46:10,545 --> 02:46:14,005
The MDR ordinance Right.

3298
02:46:14,005 --> 02:46:17,285
There would be a significant difference in the amount

3299
02:46:17,715 --> 02:46:20,445
that this property would be valued at with that many unit

3300
02:46:20,445 --> 02:46:23,325
with 156 units versus one house.

3301
02:46:23,785 --> 02:46:24,885
If, if that makes sense.

3302
02:46:25,125 --> 02:46:28,285
I think what, what we got at for purposes of hardship was

3303
02:46:28,285 --> 02:46:30,685
that with the way this property is situated

3304
02:46:31,465 --> 02:46:33,365
and the, the manner, the size of the parcel

3305
02:46:33,625 --> 02:46:34,885
and the density, it could handle

3306
02:46:35,155 --> 02:46:39,045
that given those special conditions that there's not a fair

3307
02:46:39,045 --> 02:46:41,645
and substantial relationship between excluding multifamily

3308
02:46:41,705 --> 02:46:43,765
and this district for what this parcel is.

3309
02:46:46,795 --> 02:46:49,565
Okay. All set? Yep. Okay. All

3310
02:46:49,565 --> 02:46:50,565
Right.

3311
02:46:50,565 --> 02:46:51,965
If there are no other questions, just very briefly,

3312
02:46:52,625 --> 02:46:55,965
my understanding was that there were a couple of letters

3313
02:46:56,025 --> 02:46:57,685
and some other things submitted by members

3314
02:46:57,705 --> 02:46:58,965
of the public to the board.

3315
02:46:59,705 --> 02:47:01,765
If I could potentially get copies of those

3316
02:47:01,825 --> 02:47:03,565
or if someone will be emailing them,

3317
02:47:03,705 --> 02:47:05,325
it would be greatly appreciated.

3318
02:47:05,625 --> 02:47:07,805
But we haven't, we haven't finished the meeting yet.

3319
02:47:08,895 --> 02:47:11,285
Understood. But just so we can adequately respond

3320
02:47:11,285 --> 02:47:13,405
to concerns when we do have rebuttal.

3321
02:47:13,605 --> 02:47:15,725
'cause from what I understand, there was a letter earlier

3322
02:47:15,755 --> 02:47:17,365
that wasn't read aloud.

3323
02:47:17,885 --> 02:47:19,085
I understand it was a longer letter,

3324
02:47:19,145 --> 02:47:21,205
but if there are things like that we

3325
02:47:21,205 --> 02:47:23,485
Would appreciate that, that that abutter came

3326
02:47:23,485 --> 02:47:24,565
and gave her statement.

3327
02:47:24,665 --> 02:47:28,605
So we don't, we don't conceal files.

3328
02:47:28,745 --> 02:47:32,405
So the fi any files of written testimony can be

3329
02:47:32,645 --> 02:47:35,645
provided to you either through the minutes or documents

3330
02:47:35,965 --> 02:47:39,045
provided into the file itself. Yep.

3331
02:47:39,045 --> 02:47:41,125
Understood. We just wanted to make sure we're able to

3332
02:47:41,645 --> 02:47:43,325
rebut any other points that are made,

3333
02:47:43,925 --> 02:47:45,485
albeit I believe it will be at the next meeting.

3334
02:47:47,585 --> 02:47:50,085
All right, Mrs.

3335
02:47:50,085 --> 02:47:52,245
All you wanna give us a staff run down here?

3336
02:47:52,665 --> 02:47:55,085
Yes. Thank you. As we've heard,

3337
02:47:55,085 --> 02:47:57,365
the applicant is requesting of a use variance

3338
02:47:57,365 --> 02:47:59,765
to allow the construction of or,

3339
02:47:59,765 --> 02:48:00,965
or to allow the construction

3340
02:48:00,965 --> 02:48:04,525
of a six building 156 unit multifamily housing development.

3341
02:48:04,525 --> 02:48:07,325
On the parcel, the property is located in the medium density

3342
02:48:07,435 --> 02:48:09,005
residential zoning district.

3343
02:48:09,275 --> 02:48:11,205
Multifamily is not a permitted use,

3344
02:48:11,205 --> 02:48:13,605
therefore the variance is required to permit the use.

3345
02:48:14,075 --> 02:48:17,365
This is an existing vacant lot of record dating back

3346
02:48:17,425 --> 02:48:22,205
to earlier than 1900, containing approximately 11.38 acres

3347
02:48:22,755 --> 02:48:26,165
with approximately 57.8 feet of frontage.

3348
02:48:27,265 --> 02:48:29,445
In addition to the variance for the proposed use,

3349
02:48:30,565 --> 02:48:31,765
I believe a variance is required

3350
02:48:31,765 --> 02:48:35,125
for the insufficient frontage as a minimum of 125 feet

3351
02:48:35,125 --> 02:48:37,805
of frontage is required in the MDR district,

3352
02:48:39,265 --> 02:48:41,365
the rear portion of the property slopes down

3353
02:48:41,745 --> 02:48:43,165
or slopes down to River Brook.

3354
02:48:43,475 --> 02:48:46,205
This area is located within the 100 year floodplain

3355
02:48:46,385 --> 02:48:47,485
and is also subject

3356
02:48:47,485 --> 02:48:49,525
to the New Hampshire Shoreland Protection rules.

3357
02:48:49,795 --> 02:48:52,765
Because a portion of the proposed work is located within the

3358
02:48:52,765 --> 02:48:56,005
250 foot 5,250 foot area,

3359
02:48:56,605 --> 02:48:58,445
a state short land permit will be required

3360
02:48:59,305 --> 02:49:01,765
and due to the proximity, the property's proximity

3361
02:49:01,785 --> 02:49:03,485
to the 100 year floodplain,

3362
02:49:03,765 --> 02:49:06,205
a flood elevation certificate would be required

3363
02:49:06,205 --> 02:49:07,285
to ensure the property

3364
02:49:07,345 --> 02:49:09,805
or the proposed dwelling units are elevated above,

3365
02:49:09,935 --> 02:49:11,525
above the flood hazard area.

3366
02:49:13,905 --> 02:49:15,845
The development is proposed to be serviced

3367
02:49:15,845 --> 02:49:19,165
by municipal water and sewer if approved by the board.

3368
02:49:19,625 --> 02:49:20,885
The project will be subject

3369
02:49:20,885 --> 02:49:23,885
to full planning board site plan review if approved,

3370
02:49:23,885 --> 02:49:26,605
appropriate permits and inspections will be required.

3371
02:49:27,105 --> 02:49:28,245
And as the chair stated,

3372
02:49:28,345 --> 02:49:29,765
we have received two letters in

3373
02:49:29,765 --> 02:49:31,325
opposition included in the file.

3374
02:49:32,145 --> 02:49:33,145
And thank you.

3375
02:49:37,065 --> 02:49:40,345
And that wraps that up. Any other thoughts, Ms. Owen?

3376
02:49:42,125 --> 02:49:44,545
No, thank you. I'm sorry.

3377
02:49:45,205 --> 02:49:46,225
No, thank you. Okay.

3378
02:49:49,285 --> 02:49:51,985
In the normal process is, has this process

3379
02:49:52,255 --> 02:49:54,945
with this application been normal

3380
02:49:55,605 --> 02:49:58,585
or is it, have, have they presented any,

3381
02:49:58,665 --> 02:50:02,505
I you've indicated no concepts that come to you earlier

3382
02:50:03,395 --> 02:50:05,425
prior to this submittal, am I correct?

3383
02:50:05,615 --> 02:50:06,625
Correct. Alright.

3384
02:50:08,965 --> 02:50:12,585
Any input from other town staff on this?

3385
02:50:14,375 --> 02:50:18,665
More questions. Looking for clarification this evening.

3386
02:50:19,085 --> 02:50:22,345
I'm, I believe people will be tuning in Okay.

3387
02:50:22,525 --> 02:50:24,225
To understand more as well. Alright.

3388
02:50:25,175 --> 02:50:28,585
Okay. Well, and I think as the attorney has, has suggested

3389
02:50:28,585 --> 02:50:32,385
that, that this is kind of preliminary for them just

3390
02:50:32,385 --> 02:50:33,905
to see if they can get the usage

3391
02:50:33,965 --> 02:50:35,865
before they go through the expenditures

3392
02:50:36,045 --> 02:50:38,625
of further creativity.

3393
02:50:38,625 --> 02:50:40,665
Right. Management. Mr. Corbett,

3394
02:50:40,745 --> 02:50:42,465
I have a question for the Applicant after Yes sir.

3395
02:50:43,115 --> 02:50:46,145
Sorry. So 156 units is the number I keep kind

3396
02:50:46,145 --> 02:50:48,985
of focusing on, but how many bedrooms per unit?

3397
02:50:52,835 --> 02:50:54,935
So for, again, for that purpose, we,

3398
02:50:54,955 --> 02:50:57,615
we don't have a concrete number.

3399
02:50:58,275 --> 02:51:03,135
It would be, I can't really speak to that honestly,

3400
02:51:03,135 --> 02:51:05,015
because that's not part of what we have planned.

3401
02:51:05,015 --> 02:51:06,695
So I struggle to, to be able

3402
02:51:06,695 --> 02:51:08,175
to give you a clear answer on that issue.

3403
02:51:09,885 --> 02:51:13,175
Okay. I mean, the market conditions are currently such

3404
02:51:13,175 --> 02:51:16,895
that two bedroom units are what people are seeking.

3405
02:51:17,155 --> 02:51:19,975
It turns out economically, and I know this for a fact

3406
02:51:20,175 --> 02:51:22,455
'cause I've worked on it, three bedroom units don't work

3407
02:51:22,455 --> 02:51:25,015
well because the cost to construct them versus,

3408
02:51:25,275 --> 02:51:27,015
versus the rental cost is right.

3409
02:51:27,015 --> 02:51:29,735
Excessive and one bedroom units are not desirable

3410
02:51:31,595 --> 02:51:32,695
for a multitude of reasons.

3411
02:51:32,695 --> 02:51:35,655
There's not many people that are single and

3412
02:51:35,795 --> 02:51:38,015
or don't have children renting apartments.

3413
02:51:38,315 --> 02:51:41,415
And I shouldn't say that's, that's not entirely true,

3414
02:51:41,475 --> 02:51:43,415
but the rental rates are significantly lower

3415
02:51:43,515 --> 02:51:45,095
for single bedroom. Just

3416
02:51:45,095 --> 02:51:48,015
Thinking two, two bedrooms looking two, three people,

3417
02:51:48,605 --> 02:51:49,855
just two bedrooms, two,

3418
02:51:49,855 --> 02:51:51,455
three people we're just getting upwards

3419
02:51:51,455 --> 02:51:53,495
of about is that almost

3420
02:51:53,635 --> 02:51:55,855
The, the demographics were down to 500 people

3421
02:51:56,515 --> 02:51:57,695
on multifamily?

3422
02:51:57,805 --> 02:51:59,895
It's about 1.5 people per bedroom,

3423
02:52:00,395 --> 02:52:02,415
But unfortunately I can't count a half a person.

3424
02:52:02,475 --> 02:52:04,255
But yeah, probably round up well that,

3425
02:52:04,255 --> 02:52:06,245
That would be three people per two bedroom unit

3426
02:52:06,265 --> 02:52:07,265
On average.

3427
02:52:07,265 --> 02:52:08,685
So three times 1 56.

3428
02:52:08,695 --> 02:52:11,215
We're looking at what, 470

3429
02:52:11,315 --> 02:52:14,095
people ish.

3430
02:52:16,095 --> 02:52:19,135
I think in the regard Ms. Owen touched on in her

3431
02:52:19,135 --> 02:52:23,055
or Mrs. Moore touched on in her question, which was leading

3432
02:52:23,275 --> 02:52:24,455
to that reasonable

3433
02:52:24,635 --> 02:52:28,655
or excessive question, the reasonable being

3434
02:52:29,245 --> 02:52:31,335
looking at what's across the street,

3435
02:52:31,575 --> 02:52:35,575
I guess at Hillside states, that this is similar in

3436
02:52:35,575 --> 02:52:39,375
that neighborhood, but Mrs. Morin posed the question,

3437
02:52:39,955 --> 02:52:41,735
what's the significant loss

3438
02:52:42,245 --> 02:52:45,775
when you are using the reasonable calculation versus

3439
02:52:45,965 --> 02:52:48,295
excessive to putting in

3440
02:52:48,325 --> 02:52:52,375
what would be an approved use here, Mr.

3441
02:52:52,725 --> 02:52:56,775
Corbett's calculation goes to what similar approvals

3442
02:52:57,585 --> 02:53:01,655
since these ordinance changes have been, the multitude

3443
02:53:01,675 --> 02:53:05,975
of those approvals in similar scope are have been studios

3444
02:53:05,995 --> 02:53:08,415
or one bedrooms just for your information,

3445
02:53:08,895 --> 02:53:12,895
you're using the calculus of what's in the community now

3446
02:53:13,955 --> 02:53:16,975
asking us to solve the state's problem of,

3447
02:53:17,515 --> 02:53:18,895
of affordable housing.

3448
02:53:19,235 --> 02:53:23,575
But creating a dynamic that is creating,

3449
02:53:24,215 --> 02:53:27,935
I think, a pretty significant impact when it's compared to

3450
02:53:27,935 --> 02:53:30,175
what our most recent approvals have been.

3451
02:53:31,275 --> 02:53:34,215
And that's the, that's the excess on the two bedrooms

3452
02:53:34,885 --> 02:53:36,615
aspects versus the one

3453
02:53:36,675 --> 02:53:40,135
or studios that have been more consistent

3454
02:53:40,165 --> 02:53:43,815
with the board's approvals trying to satisfy that need

3455
02:53:43,815 --> 02:53:48,095
of the workforce housing issue that the state has tried to

3456
02:53:50,495 --> 02:53:54,375
overcome, which you're using is part of your reason

3457
02:53:54,395 --> 02:53:58,655
for approval here, Mr. Morin?

3458
02:53:59,955 --> 02:54:01,415
To add to what you said,

3459
02:54:02,495 --> 02:54:04,495
assuming it's true on the internet,

3460
02:54:05,935 --> 02:54:08,895
Benjamin Chase Mill is 55 plus as well.

3461
02:54:09,845 --> 02:54:14,535
Okay. Anybody have any questions for code enforcement?

3462
02:54:15,355 --> 02:54:16,975
Seeing no gestures there? Thank you. Chair. I

3463
02:54:16,975 --> 02:54:18,335
Don't know if you wanna do extended time.

3464
02:54:18,365 --> 02:54:19,455
It's 9 56.

3465
02:54:19,765 --> 02:54:22,775
Very good. Let's go to 10 15. Please

3466
02:54:22,885 --> 02:54:24,375
Make a motion to extend to 10 15.

3467
02:54:24,525 --> 02:54:27,215
Very good. Second please. I'll second it.

3468
02:54:27,395 --> 02:54:30,655
All right. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Opposed? Very good.

3469
02:54:32,985 --> 02:54:34,335
Thank you Mrs. Oland

3470
02:54:34,675 --> 02:54:37,215
and gentlemen, you have anything else you wanna share

3471
02:54:37,215 --> 02:54:38,535
with us before we go to public?

3472
02:54:39,315 --> 02:54:42,175
No, sir. If you need the applicant's permission to

3473
02:54:42,895 --> 02:54:45,135
continue, when you do decide to close out,

3474
02:54:45,595 --> 02:54:46,695
we can give it now.

3475
02:54:46,875 --> 02:54:48,215
If not, I can always come back up,

3476
02:54:48,215 --> 02:54:52,015
but I've had some boards look for the applicant to consent

3477
02:54:52,075 --> 02:54:54,935
to continue to the next zoning meeting.

3478
02:54:55,035 --> 02:54:57,815
But we would obviously at this point, but ascent to that.

3479
02:54:58,765 --> 02:55:01,655
Okay. Well, let me see how things shape up here. Okay.

3480
02:55:02,255 --> 02:55:03,255
Absolutely. Thank you all for your time.

3481
02:55:03,585 --> 02:55:07,445
At this point we'll make a request for public input

3482
02:55:08,035 --> 02:55:11,685
that would be anybody in favor of this application.

3483
02:55:11,715 --> 02:55:16,325
This would be your opportunity to come forward. Okay.

3484
02:55:21,785 --> 02:55:25,085
Please keep in mind my public service announcement

3485
02:55:25,085 --> 02:55:26,525
before this meeting started

3486
02:55:27,345 --> 02:55:30,765
and that will be considered as we go forward.

3487
02:55:31,965 --> 02:55:34,125
At this point, we'll take anybody who wishes

3488
02:55:34,305 --> 02:55:37,885
to speak in opposition of this one at a time.

3489
02:55:42,405 --> 02:55:44,375
Good evening, Mr. Chairman, members of the board.

3490
02:55:44,435 --> 02:55:45,895
My name is Joel Rosen.

3491
02:55:46,075 --> 02:55:49,415
I'm an attorney living at Fivefield Road on Beaver Lake.

3492
02:55:50,015 --> 02:55:52,735
I represent the Beaver Lake Improvement Association.

3493
02:55:53,285 --> 02:55:55,455
It's a New Hampshire nonprofit corporation

3494
02:55:56,475 --> 02:55:58,815
and it represent it.

3495
02:55:58,995 --> 02:56:01,735
The association includes more than a hundred property owners

3496
02:56:01,875 --> 02:56:06,175
who are members and some of whom, all

3497
02:56:06,175 --> 02:56:09,415
of whom reside on, most of whom reside on the lake close

3498
02:56:09,415 --> 02:56:13,215
to the property and some of whom

3499
02:56:13,635 --> 02:56:16,095
but the property. So, okay,

3500
02:56:16,195 --> 02:56:17,455
So I'm gonna stop you there.

3501
02:56:18,385 --> 02:56:20,255
Field Road is on the opposite side

3502
02:56:20,255 --> 02:56:21,535
of Beaver Lake is Field Road

3503
02:56:21,635 --> 02:56:22,635
Is.

3504
02:56:22,635 --> 02:56:23,935
Yeah, it's on the opposite side.

3505
02:56:24,195 --> 02:56:27,615
You have clients that are part of your association

3506
02:56:27,645 --> 02:56:29,095
that are direct abutters

3507
02:56:29,095 --> 02:56:30,095
Here. Direct Abutters, yes.

3508
02:56:30,205 --> 02:56:34,175
Okay. And therefore you are representing those parties

3509
02:56:34,515 --> 02:56:37,575
as well as others related

3510
02:56:37,575 --> 02:56:38,575
Through the association.

3511
02:56:38,965 --> 02:56:41,095
Very good. Any

3512
02:56:41,095 --> 02:56:43,975
of the board have any conflict with Mr.

3513
02:56:45,045 --> 02:56:46,455
Rosen's input?

3514
02:56:47,075 --> 02:56:49,375
No, it makes sense that clientele would extend.

3515
02:56:49,525 --> 02:56:51,135
Very good. Please proceed

3516
02:56:51,435 --> 02:56:52,435
Mr. Rose.

3517
02:56:52,435 --> 02:56:54,415
Okay, so I don't need to do any more understanding.

3518
02:56:58,475 --> 02:57:01,895
The Association

3519
02:57:03,955 --> 02:57:07,495
not only represents the interests of its members who,

3520
02:57:07,675 --> 02:57:11,055
who own the 125 houses around Beaver Lake

3521
02:57:11,515 --> 02:57:15,615
and observe that that is fewer than half of the houses.

3522
02:57:16,445 --> 02:57:18,015
That, that this,

3523
02:57:18,015 --> 02:57:20,215
that this project would more than double the number

3524
02:57:20,215 --> 02:57:22,895
of residential units on Beaver Lake.

3525
02:57:24,435 --> 02:57:27,215
But we not only represent them, but we also

3526
02:57:32,635 --> 02:57:35,015
act in the, in the beneficial interests of members

3527
02:57:35,015 --> 02:57:37,415
of the public who use Galen's Beach in the boat ramp.

3528
02:57:39,315 --> 02:57:41,975
We oppose the project

3529
02:57:43,445 --> 02:57:46,575
because Denali has not met its burden

3530
02:57:47,255 --> 02:57:48,935
to demonstrate a hardship to show

3531
02:57:48,935 --> 02:57:51,975
that the variance is not contrary to the public interest

3532
02:57:52,035 --> 02:57:54,935
or it does satisfy any of the criteria.

3533
02:57:56,115 --> 02:58:00,855
I'm not gonna, I I've submitted a letter. It is on record.

3534
02:58:01,225 --> 02:58:03,085
It is on record. I'm not going to

3535
02:58:03,635 --> 02:58:05,165
read the letter to you again.

3536
02:58:05,235 --> 02:58:06,525
It's much too late for that.

3537
02:58:08,705 --> 02:58:11,245
The fundamental thing I want to talk about though is

3538
02:58:11,275 --> 02:58:14,605
that the variance would be contrary to the public interest.

3539
02:58:14,645 --> 02:58:17,885
I think that's our strongest argument in the area that this

3540
02:58:19,355 --> 02:58:21,965
this application absolutely fails.

3541
02:58:27,295 --> 02:58:30,765
First of all, it would undermine watershed pro protections.

3542
02:58:32,105 --> 02:58:35,605
The spirit of the single family zoning around Beaver Lake is

3543
02:58:35,605 --> 02:58:36,765
to keep density low.

3544
02:58:37,975 --> 02:58:39,605
Among other reasons. It's to protect,

3545
02:58:39,885 --> 02:58:43,605
prevent massive storm water runoff and Lake Blooms.

3546
02:58:44,485 --> 02:58:46,325
As you can see from the picture

3547
02:58:46,325 --> 02:58:49,325
that's up on the screen right now, there is,

3548
02:58:50,045 --> 02:58:52,605
I can't tell you, it looks like more than an acre

3549
02:58:52,605 --> 02:58:55,445
of impervious surface that's just going

3550
02:58:55,445 --> 02:58:58,245
to run right down into Beaver Brook

3551
02:58:58,465 --> 02:59:02,765
and into the groundwater and into the lake.

3552
02:59:04,125 --> 02:59:08,245
I also wanna observe that this is for a six

3553
02:59:08,925 --> 02:59:13,165
application for six buildings containing 155 units.

3554
02:59:13,275 --> 02:59:17,885
This looks to me like seven buildings containing 132 units.

3555
02:59:19,025 --> 02:59:23,165
So it, it's a little confusing to look at this plan, given

3556
02:59:23,195 --> 02:59:27,965
what they're asking for, in addition

3557
02:59:27,965 --> 02:59:31,685
to undermining watershed protections, it would undermine the

3558
02:59:32,485 --> 02:59:36,045
shoreland buffer as I think the,

3559
02:59:37,385 --> 02:59:39,045
the members of the board have observed

3560
02:59:40,065 --> 02:59:41,445
it would increase traffic.

3561
02:59:41,945 --> 02:59:45,285
I'm looking at this plan, I can't count the number

3562
02:59:45,285 --> 02:59:47,205
of parking spaces, but it looks like there are about

3563
02:59:47,205 --> 02:59:48,325
200 parking spaces.

3564
02:59:50,035 --> 02:59:54,445
Adel, they don't even have enough frontage to build

3565
02:59:54,985 --> 02:59:56,565
one house on this lot.

3566
02:59:56,565 --> 03:00:00,885
Right? They could potentially ask for a variance,

3567
03:00:01,045 --> 03:00:04,085
a frontage variance, which they haven't done, and,

3568
03:00:04,145 --> 03:00:05,245
and build one house.

3569
03:00:05,905 --> 03:00:09,445
But this is right in the place where

3570
03:00:10,105 --> 03:00:12,645
the new exit four A is going to empty out.

3571
03:00:14,545 --> 03:00:19,165
And if you put just these 200

3572
03:00:19,275 --> 03:00:22,205
cars on Chester Road in the morning

3573
03:00:24,965 --> 03:00:27,765
combined with and, and coming back on in the afternoon,

3574
03:00:28,205 --> 03:00:29,765
combined with the other traffic coming off

3575
03:00:29,765 --> 03:00:31,005
of the new exit four A,

3576
03:00:31,555 --> 03:00:34,365
this is gonna be absolutely unworkable in a,

3577
03:00:34,905 --> 03:00:36,845
on a two lane road.

3578
03:00:39,385 --> 03:00:41,285
The, the growth management ordinance,

3579
03:00:41,385 --> 03:00:44,205
I'm not sure if it applies literally to this project or not.

3580
03:00:44,245 --> 03:00:45,445
I don't have an opinion on that,

3581
03:00:46,185 --> 03:00:48,925
but the growth management ordinance

3582
03:00:50,515 --> 03:00:53,925
expresses policies of the town, which I think that

3583
03:00:55,185 --> 03:00:57,845
the board has to take into consideration when it considers

3584
03:00:57,845 --> 03:01:00,205
whether or not this project is in the public interest.

3585
03:01:02,105 --> 03:01:06,325
And one of the things that, the justification for this, the,

3586
03:01:06,325 --> 03:01:09,405
the policy is justifying this ordinance say, is

3587
03:01:09,405 --> 03:01:13,565
that dairy has done way more than its share of providing,

3588
03:01:15,995 --> 03:01:19,445
providing housing compared

3589
03:01:19,445 --> 03:01:21,805
to surrounding communities.

3590
03:01:22,225 --> 03:01:25,885
And because of this, all of our public services

3591
03:01:27,065 --> 03:01:29,005
are absolutely stressed.

3592
03:01:30,025 --> 03:01:33,365
Transportation, water, sewers, schools, parks, recreation,

3593
03:01:33,645 --> 03:01:36,965
drainage, and

3594
03:01:39,305 --> 03:01:43,005
the as, as the, as the ordinance says,

3595
03:01:43,005 --> 03:01:45,845
dairy has taxed itself to the very limit having one

3596
03:01:45,845 --> 03:01:47,885
of the highest property tax rates

3597
03:01:47,885 --> 03:01:49,045
in the state of New Hampshire.

3598
03:01:49,465 --> 03:01:52,645
And it also says that dairy's made major arteries are at

3599
03:01:52,645 --> 03:01:55,245
full capacity in most cases it's serve levels

3600
03:01:55,265 --> 03:01:58,205
of service indicative of a failure condition.

3601
03:01:58,665 --> 03:02:02,565
So this is, this project is not in the public interest.

3602
03:02:05,115 --> 03:02:06,725
Also, I don't think that they have

3603
03:02:10,725 --> 03:02:13,885
satisfied any of the conditions to show a hardship.

3604
03:02:16,685 --> 03:02:20,645
I don't think there's any attempt to show that there's no

3605
03:02:21,165 --> 03:02:24,045
relationship between the general purposes of the ordinance

3606
03:02:24,665 --> 03:02:26,325
and the specific application of

3607
03:02:26,325 --> 03:02:27,565
that provision of this property.

3608
03:02:28,185 --> 03:02:29,565
If they want to, they can.

3609
03:02:30,645 --> 03:02:32,845
I mean, if they could get a variance,

3610
03:02:32,845 --> 03:02:35,045
maybe put a road in there, they could easily build.

3611
03:02:35,045 --> 03:02:37,045
They, they say they have nine buildable acres.

3612
03:02:37,565 --> 03:02:38,565
They could build nine homes.

3613
03:02:39,445 --> 03:02:43,685
I mean, that's a perfectly useful use of the property.

3614
03:02:43,685 --> 03:02:45,765
Frankly, since they're offering us a campground

3615
03:02:45,785 --> 03:02:47,805
or this project, we'll take the campground.

3616
03:02:54,025 --> 03:02:56,405
And they also can't say that the use is reasonable.

3617
03:02:56,405 --> 03:02:59,965
And I don't think I have to take the board's time right now

3618
03:02:59,985 --> 03:03:03,805
to, to explain why 150 units

3619
03:03:04,585 --> 03:03:07,365
in a rural area is reasonable.

3620
03:03:07,775 --> 03:03:12,325
There. As I said, there are 125 residences on the lake.

3621
03:03:12,325 --> 03:03:14,005
They're all single family homes.

3622
03:03:14,005 --> 03:03:16,485
There is not a multi-family home on the lake.

3623
03:03:17,265 --> 03:03:20,485
And if you look at the, at the

3624
03:03:22,145 --> 03:03:24,685
Google Maps picture that we saw

3625
03:03:24,745 --> 03:03:26,605
before, you'll see that all around the lake.

3626
03:03:27,075 --> 03:03:28,765
It's, it's rural, it's wooded.

3627
03:03:29,745 --> 03:03:32,045
And that's, that's the character of the neighborhood.

3628
03:03:33,225 --> 03:03:35,485
So they can't, they can't satisfy

3629
03:03:36,705 --> 03:03:38,365
the section A criteria.

3630
03:03:39,305 --> 03:03:43,485
And I don't think that they can satisfy any of the, any

3631
03:03:43,485 --> 03:03:44,525
of the other criteria.

3632
03:03:46,395 --> 03:03:48,805
They can't show that literal enforcement would create an

3633
03:03:48,805 --> 03:03:51,125
unnecessary hardship because as I said, they can build

3634
03:03:52,515 --> 03:03:53,965
nine houses on the property.

3635
03:03:53,965 --> 03:03:56,005
If they can get a, a frontage variance

3636
03:03:56,665 --> 03:04:00,165
and put a road in, perhaps it's

3637
03:04:00,685 --> 03:04:02,885
manifestly contrary to the public interest.

3638
03:04:03,515 --> 03:04:05,885
It's not consistent with the spirit of the zoning ordinance.

3639
03:04:05,885 --> 03:04:08,085
It's the zoning ordinance is single family homes.

3640
03:04:08,665 --> 03:04:10,925
That's the density that the town wants here.

3641
03:04:13,585 --> 03:04:17,325
And it's not, if you, if you do the balancing test required

3642
03:04:17,385 --> 03:04:19,205
by the question of substantial justice,

3643
03:04:20,325 --> 03:04:22,085
I don't think there's any way that you can say

3644
03:04:22,085 --> 03:04:24,205
that a massive profit to the developer.

3645
03:04:25,365 --> 03:04:29,285
I in any way counterbalance is the interest of the public.

3646
03:04:29,985 --> 03:04:33,525
And as far as the, whether the variance would diminish

3647
03:04:33,925 --> 03:04:36,085
surrounding property values, I mean, that's their burden.

3648
03:04:36,385 --> 03:04:38,365
And they haven't said a word about it.

3649
03:04:42,225 --> 03:04:45,725
And I think really with my letter, I think I can,

3650
03:04:45,845 --> 03:04:47,165
I can just rest on that.

3651
03:04:47,885 --> 03:04:49,645
But I'm here to answer your questions.

3652
03:04:51,105 --> 03:04:52,965
Mr. Corbert. Yeah. So Attorney Rosen, one

3653
03:04:53,515 --> 03:04:54,805
item I wanna stop halfway through.

3654
03:04:54,805 --> 03:04:56,965
You notice I did change the image for you up top.

3655
03:04:57,085 --> 03:04:58,325
I that was a good catch for you.

3656
03:04:58,325 --> 03:05:00,245
Notice the seven I questioned that page

3657
03:05:00,245 --> 03:05:02,325
before that page was incorrectly inserted.

3658
03:05:02,645 --> 03:05:04,045
They noted they were rescinding that one.

3659
03:05:04,185 --> 03:05:06,845
So the, what's up now with the six buildings?

3660
03:05:07,405 --> 03:05:09,845
It does show the 1 56. That's what we were told to Okay.

3661
03:05:09,965 --> 03:05:12,005
Consider for this evening. So I just wanted to clarify.

3662
03:05:12,435 --> 03:05:14,525
Okay. That one between the seven and the six. Thank

3663
03:05:14,525 --> 03:05:15,525
You.

3664
03:05:15,605 --> 03:05:20,045
I like the other one better. Anything else?

3665
03:05:20,405 --> 03:05:23,245
Attorney Rosa? No, no. I'm, I'm here for your questions.

3666
03:05:23,245 --> 03:05:25,485
If you have no questions, I will seat the,

3667
03:05:26,725 --> 03:05:27,725
I do have one question.

3668
03:05:27,725 --> 03:05:32,085
Mr. De, Mr. Chair. Mr. Rosen, I, I'm looking for it.

3669
03:05:32,085 --> 03:05:34,885
I have a, an ocean of papers here,

3670
03:05:34,905 --> 03:05:39,685
but I believe that they did submit a letter from a realtor

3671
03:05:42,155 --> 03:05:44,125
with the opinion that it would not reduce

3672
03:05:45,565 --> 03:05:46,725
surrounding property values.

3673
03:05:47,145 --> 03:05:48,645
Is that something that you don't

3674
03:05:49,225 --> 03:05:50,225
I'm sorry, I didn't hear you.

3675
03:05:50,465 --> 03:05:55,285
Oh, I'm sorry. They did provide a letter from

3676
03:05:55,805 --> 03:05:59,125
re max giving the opinion that it would not

3677
03:06:00,185 --> 03:06:02,365
reduce surrounding property values.

3678
03:06:02,965 --> 03:06:04,245
I haven't seen it. I apologize.

3679
03:06:04,245 --> 03:06:07,005
Haven't seen it. So, but it is your opinion that,

3680
03:06:08,155 --> 03:06:10,965
Well, it's my opinion that it will destroy the surrounding

3681
03:06:11,245 --> 03:06:13,525
property values because living on a lake,

3682
03:06:14,035 --> 03:06:15,325
this is a rural place.

3683
03:06:15,385 --> 03:06:18,245
If you, I I'm sure you've all been to Galen's Beach,

3684
03:06:18,305 --> 03:06:20,605
I'm sure you've all been on the lake in boats fishing

3685
03:06:20,705 --> 03:06:22,245
or, or kayaking.

3686
03:06:22,585 --> 03:06:24,245
And you look, you look around the lake

3687
03:06:24,265 --> 03:06:28,325
and what you see is woods and, and, and small houses.

3688
03:06:29,465 --> 03:06:31,685
And, and that's the value of living,

3689
03:06:31,745 --> 03:06:33,125
living in this neighborhood.

3690
03:06:34,385 --> 03:06:37,845
So I think I, not to mention

3691
03:06:39,625 --> 03:06:41,325
the interest that we have in water quality,

3692
03:06:41,625 --> 03:06:43,725
and we are very scrupulous.

3693
03:06:43,725 --> 03:06:46,205
The BLIA on water quality, we test

3694
03:06:46,945 --> 03:06:49,405
Beaver Lake in its tributary several times a year.

3695
03:06:49,425 --> 03:06:51,205
We share our findings with the state.

3696
03:06:51,905 --> 03:06:55,805
We have volunteer dive teams that go in and,

3697
03:06:56,225 --> 03:06:59,125
and take up invasive plants.

3698
03:06:59,265 --> 03:07:02,005
And we have made the lake free of milfoil.

3699
03:07:02,085 --> 03:07:03,525
I mean, we really take care of the lake.

3700
03:07:03,905 --> 03:07:05,645
And the, the, the threat

3701
03:07:05,985 --> 03:07:09,525
of all this impervious surface dumping salt

3702
03:07:09,705 --> 03:07:13,525
and fertilizer into the lake is just unsupportable.

3703
03:07:14,235 --> 03:07:16,245
Okay. I just wanted to make it clear for the record

3704
03:07:16,275 --> 03:07:17,645
that they did in fact address

3705
03:07:17,645 --> 03:07:18,685
that. And I wanted to get your

3706
03:07:18,685 --> 03:07:19,685
Opinion on that.

3707
03:07:19,685 --> 03:07:20,765
And I apologize. I did not see that. Okay.

3708
03:07:20,765 --> 03:07:22,765
Thank you Mr. Chair. Anybody else?

3709
03:07:22,905 --> 03:07:26,405
Any questions for attorney Rosen? Very good, sir.

3710
03:07:26,735 --> 03:07:29,485
We'll rest policies allow rebuttal for you

3711
03:07:29,505 --> 03:07:31,525
and we're in compressed time now.

3712
03:07:31,705 --> 03:07:35,965
So you're all set. You may I ask how many people here wish

3713
03:07:35,985 --> 03:07:37,405
to speak in opposition?

3714
03:07:38,305 --> 03:07:42,445
And you are all direct abutters to this parcel? Yes. Okay.

3715
03:07:42,905 --> 03:07:44,805
All right. Well that will be our requirement.

3716
03:07:44,945 --> 03:07:47,725
The next time this board comes together, we're going to,

3717
03:07:48,335 --> 03:07:51,565
we're going to end the meeting at this time

3718
03:07:51,565 --> 03:07:53,805
because we won't have time to hear all of you.

3719
03:07:56,675 --> 03:08:00,645
October 1st. October 1st, gentlemen. October 1st.

3720
03:08:01,465 --> 03:08:04,565
You good with that? Very good. All right.

3721
03:08:04,565 --> 03:08:07,685
October 1st board.

3722
03:08:08,205 --> 03:08:09,885
I need a motion to table this. I'll

3723
03:08:09,885 --> 03:08:11,205
Make a motion to table this case

3724
03:08:11,255 --> 03:08:13,805
until our next meeting on October 1st. Second.

3725
03:08:14,225 --> 03:08:17,845
Second by Mr. Trip. All in favor say aye. Aye. Aye.

3726
03:08:17,945 --> 03:08:19,445
Any opposed? Hearing none.

3727
03:08:20,585 --> 03:08:23,965
You direct your questions to the code enforcement. Okay.

3728
03:08:23,965 --> 03:08:25,605
Either now or during the week.

3729
03:08:27,615 --> 03:08:30,365
Wanna give it my turn? Let's go ahead

3730
03:08:32,535 --> 03:08:33,535
Folks.

3731
03:08:33,535 --> 03:08:35,885
If we, folks, if we may, we have to wrap up in five minutes.

3732
03:08:35,905 --> 03:08:37,405
We just take your conversations outside.

3733
03:08:37,405 --> 03:08:39,525
We just need it to be quiet for us to finish. Thank you.

3734
03:08:42,595 --> 03:08:43,845
Hope you got A visitor. Ms. S,

3735
03:08:48,905 --> 03:08:51,125
Please Don't even joke about

3736
03:08:51,125 --> 03:08:52,125
That.

3737
03:08:52,125 --> 03:08:52,675
Will you get,

3738
03:08:53,275 --> 03:08:54,565
Just go away Please.

3739
03:08:56,675 --> 03:08:58,525
It's nice to see you. Yeah. Yeah.

3740
03:08:59,455 --> 03:09:02,245
You'd be taking us back to the considered old days.

3741
03:09:11,495 --> 03:09:13,285
Folks, would you please leave this room

3742
03:09:13,425 --> 03:09:14,965
so we can wrap up our business?

3743
03:09:15,055 --> 03:09:18,685
Thank you. Take your conversations out back.

3744
03:09:22,475 --> 03:09:24,485
Alright, Next step on the agenda.

3745
03:09:24,785 --> 03:09:26,565
We have the correspondence.

3746
03:09:26,625 --> 03:09:28,525
The town, the bimonthly town

3747
03:09:28,525 --> 03:09:30,205
and city publication. Yeah, I've got it here for,

3748
03:09:30,365 --> 03:09:31,245
I have it here for Mr. Trip.

3749
03:09:31,425 --> 03:09:32,485
All right. Very good. On reserve.

3750
03:09:33,275 --> 03:09:36,965
Next we have approval of minutes from 7 16 26.

3751
03:09:37,485 --> 03:09:39,445
Were those amended? Mrs. Ms.

3752
03:09:40,625 --> 03:09:41,965
Boudro? No.

3753
03:09:43,025 --> 03:09:46,365
May I have a motion to accept the minutes from July 16th

3754
03:09:46,705 --> 03:09:47,845
as presented please?

3755
03:09:48,315 --> 03:09:50,685
I'll make that motion to accept the minutes from

3756
03:09:50,685 --> 03:09:51,685
July 16th.

3757
03:09:51,685 --> 03:09:54,045
Mr. Lauren has the motion. Second please. Second. Second.

3758
03:09:54,565 --> 03:09:58,205
Mr. Dela second. All in favor say aye. Aye. Aye.

3759
03:09:58,305 --> 03:09:59,925
Any opposed? Hearing none.

3760
03:10:00,525 --> 03:10:03,885
Approval of the minutes for August 20th, 2026.

3761
03:10:04,505 --> 03:10:08,365
Any amendments there Mrs. Boreux? No. I'll make

3762
03:10:08,365 --> 03:10:09,845
That motion to accept as submitted.

3763
03:10:10,135 --> 03:10:14,085
Thank you. Motion by Mr. Corbet. Second by,

3764
03:10:15,315 --> 03:10:16,315
I'll second It.

3765
03:10:16,315 --> 03:10:20,005
Mr. Moore? All in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed?

3766
03:10:20,395 --> 03:10:21,325
Hearing none.

3767
03:10:25,985 --> 03:10:27,965
We have the minutes for September 3rd.

3768
03:10:29,425 --> 03:10:32,485
Do you have any amendments there Ms. Boudreaux? No.

3769
03:10:32,895 --> 03:10:35,045
Could I have an acceptance of those minutes

3770
03:10:35,705 --> 03:10:36,845
as presented please?

3771
03:10:38,385 --> 03:10:40,285
So moved. And I'll second it.

3772
03:10:42,585 --> 03:10:46,085
All in favor of that say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Thank you.

3773
03:10:46,545 --> 03:10:48,085
Any none. Alright.

3774
03:10:48,385 --> 03:10:50,925
So October 1st, we will follow up

3775
03:10:50,925 --> 03:10:52,965
with the open up with this case. Any others?

3776
03:10:53,375 --> 03:10:54,685
There are no new applications.

3777
03:10:55,505 --> 03:10:58,245
Wow. What? Nothing. Wow. None.

3778
03:10:59,185 --> 03:11:01,085
We almost got off. You guys

3779
03:11:01,085 --> 03:11:02,205
would've extended this to midnight.

3780
03:11:03,115 --> 03:11:04,845
Whoever shut the doors. All right,

3781
03:11:07,225 --> 03:11:08,225
We go get them.

3782
03:11:08,225 --> 03:11:09,925
I'll make, we're back. We're off on October.

3783
03:11:11,625 --> 03:11:14,285
We haven't, I'll make a motion to adjourn.

3784
03:11:14,385 --> 03:11:16,605
No, hold on one moment. There is a training second.

3785
03:11:16,615 --> 03:11:19,445
Where was going there? Oh, we had a training next week

3786
03:11:19,865 --> 03:11:20,865
On Friday.

3787
03:11:20,905 --> 03:11:21,925
Oh yes, next

3788
03:11:21,925 --> 03:11:22,925
Friday.

3789
03:11:22,925 --> 03:11:25,845
So right now we have five members that have signed up.

3790
03:11:25,905 --> 03:11:28,645
If anybody else is interested, please let us know

3791
03:11:28,665 --> 03:11:31,125
by tomorrow so we can sign you up a week in advance.

3792
03:11:31,475 --> 03:11:34,245
This is plan review. Am I correct? This

3793
03:11:34,245 --> 03:11:35,285
Is the plan review? Yes.

3794
03:11:35,315 --> 03:11:38,085
Very good. I signed up. Oh, good deal. That's nice.

3795
03:11:38,315 --> 03:11:40,205
Owen, you going? I'll be this. Alright.

3796
03:11:40,355 --> 03:11:42,005
It's going all good enough. Alright.

3797
03:11:42,115 --> 03:11:43,565
Back to your motion. This is

3798
03:11:43,825 --> 03:11:44,825
Warren.

3799
03:11:44,825 --> 03:11:47,005
I make a motion to adjourn. I'll second the motion.

3800
03:11:47,265 --> 03:11:52,205
Mr. Omba has a second adjournment.

3801
03:11:52,345 --> 03:11:55,725
All in favor say aye. A. Any opposed hearing none.

3802
03:11:55,835 --> 03:11:57,525
Were opposed. Have a good night everybody.