>> good morning, everyone. Thank you all for being here
today. I would like to call to order
this public hearing of the committee on the judiciary and
public safety. I'm councilmember brooke pinto,
representing ward 2, and the chairwoman of the committee.
the time is 10:08 a.m. On wednesday, february 20 fifth.
we are conducting this hearing in person today in room 123 of
the john a. Wilson building. And virtually via zoom,
streaming on the dc council website and youtube and x.
the committee on the judiciary and public safety has oversight
responsibility for matters affecting the judiciary and
legal systems, criminal law, procedure, justice, juvenile
justice, public safety, policing, violence prevention
and intervention, access to justice, family law, probate,
fire, emergency medical services, 911, three woman,
homeland, forensic science, fatality review, medical
examination, victim services, child support, and issues
related to women. Today, we are conducting the
performance oversights for three agencies, all of which are
critical to our public safety ecosystem.
first, the criminal justice coordinating council, the office
of police complaints, and the metropolitan police department.
we will first hear from the criminal justice coordinating
council, or cjcc. They serve as a forum for
identifying challenges and generating solutions to enhance
public safety and the fair administration of justice for
residents, visitors, and justice involved individuals.
they conduct research and analysis and provide training
and technical assistance on behalf of its district and
federal member agencies. Cjcc's work is particularly
critical as the district increasingly relies on
systemwide data, interagency coronation, and evidence driven
analysis to inform our public safety strategies.
I am especially looking forward to discussing cjcc's data
modernization work, its role supporting coordination across
agencies, and reports and analyses cjcc produces to guide
public safety policies and practices.
these initiatives sit at the intersection of data, policy,
and operational practice and are essential to ensuring that
agencies and the council have reliable, timely, and usable
information that guide decision-making.
it will also be important today to get an update on where things
stand with many of the requirements laid out for data
sharing so that we can have access to the best information
to guide our policies moving forward.
many people don't know about cjcc, so I want to reiterate
again how crucial this agency is in getting together all of the
principles in our public safety ecosystem from both our local
and federal system. As we know in d.c., we have a
unique public safety system, so having cjcc be fully staffed,
fully funded, and help serve as an arbiter between all of those
agencies on information collection and driving toward
solutions is really, really critical, and an agency that we
need to support this year and support their funding for this
data management. Our next agency in today's
oversight hearing is the office of police complaints, or opc.
opc was created to offer an independent system of review of
citizens complaints against police officers in the district
of columbia. The office investigates,
mediates, and adjudicates complaints against officers, as
well as ledisi housing authority police department.
opc makes policy recommendations to the council, the mayor, and
mpd and d c hpd to ensure officers are employing the best
practices to enhance public safety and promote trust with
the communities they serve. Today, I am looking forward to
hearing from director cross about his past fiscal year's
complaint trends, as well as reports and policy
recommendations. I know that complaints are up
significantly since this time last year, so I am eager to hear
about trends in those complaints and how the agency is handling
the larger caseloads. I am also interested
in discussing more about staffing needs in the agency,
especially given the increase in complaints.
we know a trusted police department brings legitimacy to
the department and all of our communities and ensures mpd is
working on behalf of all of our residents every day.
I look forward to the discussion with opc on how we can strive to
do better and take the aggregate of their complaints.
finally, we will hear from the metropolitan police department.
mpd is the primary law enforcement agency in the
district and provides crime prevention and investigation
strategies services as well as emergency response services.
mpd continues to play a critical role in promoting public safety
in d.c. And we want to thank them for their huge efforts and
success in driving down crime over the last several years.
we have seen significant progress in overall reduction of
crime in the district, including significant decreases in violent
crime. 22 to five saw a 53% reduction
in violent crime when compared to 2020 three.
this past year alone saw an overall 29% decrease in violent
crime, including a notable 32 percent decrease in homicide and
37% decrease in robberies. This year's statistics are
showing some roller trends already and I know the
department and its officers work hard every day to ensure crime
continues to go down so we can fulfill our basic responsibility
as a government manager everyone can feel safe.
there has been an unprecedented level of federal interference
with our local law enforcement and in our city.
for the first time in history, the president invoked section
740 of the home rule act on august 11 that declared a public
emergency and authorized the president to call on mpd for
services for a period of 30 days.
the federal emergency ended on september 9, but law enforcement
has not looked the same in washington, d.c. Since before
the emergency. Given mpd's unique role as the
police department in d.c., and we know we are the nation's
capital, our police force has always had increased interaction
with federal law enforcement agencies who also operate here.
additionally, in coordination with federal and local law
enforcement, it is sometimes important.
however, there are many concerns that have arisen out of the
surge of federal law enforcement and engraved -- immigration
enforcement activity in the district in the last six months.
I have previously spoken to many of these concerns, including the
unacceptable federal policy of having masked agents take people
from our streets, federal hsi officers shooting at individuals
during traffic stops, and my shared opposition with my
council colleagues and the mayor to having federal agencies
conducting immigration enforcement patrolling in our
streets with our local police. One of the most fundamental
needs we have to create safety in our communities is to have
trust between our residents and law enforcement.
we prevent and stop crimes when witnesses feel safe to call 911,
and we solve crimes and prevent future crimes when witnesses
feel comfortable coming forward and engaging with law
enforcement and prosecutors. Today the last six months in our
oversight. We asked mpd a series of
questions. We held a public hearing in
december where we heard from over 100 public witnesses.
that hearing was over 12 hours long.
and we got a lot of ideas from that hearing, so I want to thank
many of you for being here today to share your perspective and
ideas. That is how we can drive forward
with improvements. I then sent a letter signed by
all my council colleagues with a series of questions, much about
the federal coordination, which federal agencies are here, how
they are being deployed, and the answers we got were frankly
unsatisfactory and did not provide clarity.
we then sent follow-up questions through our performance
oversight. We got responses again that when
it came to federal agencies, we did not get the answers we
needed. Yesterday, I introduced a bill
that does a couple of things. It first says if there is a
serious use of force by a federal agent and our mpd
officers are there with their body worn camera footage, that
body worn camera footage must be released to the public within
five days. Second, it requires a public
database of any serious use of force cases with federal agents
that have happened in the last year.
third, it requires mpd to maintain information on a
roll calls, which agents are coming to the roll calls and
where they are being deployed. These are commonsense
transparency measures to understand the state of affairs
in our city and make sure the public has insight into what is
happening on our shared streets. Sure.
thank you. To be clear, I strongly support
-- much better? Ok.
sorry. I guess I won't start over given
we have a lot of witnesses. I strongly support our local
police enforcement officers doing the work of public safety
for our local city. The work of mpd that they do
every day is vital to ensuring public safetyin d.c.
officers put their lives on the line to keep all of us safe, and
I want to talk today also with the chief about what has been
leading to the lower crime rates we have seen, what initiatives
mpd is doing to build trust within the community, and
specifically what they are doing to build trust and positive
interactions with our young people.
I also want to thank the public witnesses who are here today.
I know you all our -- you all are busy.
it is fundamentally important to our process.
I do see we have been joined by my at large colleague
councilmember donnie crawford. I want to turn to you for your
opening statements. >> thank you, chairperson pinto.
good morning. I am at large councilmember
crawford and I want to thank the public and government witnesses
who are here today to testify, enter the perspectives and
experiences. I also want to thank chairwoman
pinto for convening today's oversight hearing and the
committee staff for their hard work in preparing for today.
public safety is foundational to the vitality of our city,
shaping whether families feel comfortable walking in their
neighborhoods, whether small businesses can thrive, whether
young people feel supported rather than surveilled, and
whether residents trust that the system works fairly for them.
public safety must mean safety for everyone.
including our immigrant families, black and brown
communities, and longtime district residents who have not
always experienced policing in the same way.
a public safety strategy leave some communities fearful or
uncertain is not serving our community.
in my conversations with district residents over the past
month, I have heard concerns and sensed the unease many residents
feel about transparency, youth interactions, accountability,
and the nature of mpd's collaboration with federal law
enforcement partners. Today's hearing gives us the
opportunity to ensure our public safety strategies are not only
effective but transparent, consistent, and aligned with
district law and values. My goal is to better understand
where progress has been made, where gaps remain, and how we
can ensure public safety strategies both reduce crime and
strengthen trust with the communities mpd serves.
I look forward to hearing from our witnesses, and I thank
everyone again for being here today.
>> thank you so much, councilmember crawford.
I also want to note that councilmember crawford is now
member of the judiciary committee, so we welcome you.
ok, so, as always for today's hearing, we will hear from our
public witnesses and the government witnesses, one agency
at a time. We will first start with cjcc.
for public witnesses, then for government witness, then opc and
mpd. All public witnesses have three
minutes to present your testimony today.
I am going to ask you all, those who have testament -- testified
with me before know that I feel bad cutting people off but we
really want to make sure we hear from everybody, and I know
everyone has different things and child care and issues they
need to get to, so I ask for all of your help to keep yourself on
track with three minutes. But you will hear the beep and
we have to keep moving after that.
I am going to invite or first panel of public cjcc witnesses
for cjcc jawanna hardy, tracy velazquez, natalia otero, l.
english. Online, tia bell and kylie
hogan. L. English, are you here?
ok. Is jawanna hardy here?
ok. Welcome to you all.
we can begin with tracy velazquez, policies director for
the council for court excellence.
>> thank you, chairperson pinto, members of the committee for the
opportunity to testify. My name is tracy velazquez and I
am the policy director for the council of court excellence.
cjcc plays a critical role, as you said, and coordinating
agency collaboration and data sharing and public reporting
across d.c.'s justice agencies. I want to briefly highlight a
few areas which are provided greater detail on in my written
testimony. First, we commend cjcc for their
statistical analysis tool which improves transparency by
providing public dashboards odd crime, arrest, incarceration,
supervision, and other topics. However, the functionality to
download data limits its usefulness.
even simple analyses require manual data transfer, which is
inefficient and prone to error. If the current platform cannot
support downloads, we hope cjcc will consider posting excel
spreadsheets as many other jurisdictions do.
next, cjcc provides strong reports and programs on issues
of relevance and importance, including a report on youth and
family perspectives on juvenile violence, and a panel of
successful violence reduction efforts from around the country.
I attended that excellent panel and would urge both the dc
council and agencies decision-makers to inform these
informative -- attend these informative events.
we were disappointed the victimization survey mandated in
2023 has not moved forward.
this survey would provide more detailed data directly from
crime victims without a law enforcement filter, and I would
note it would include potentially victimization that
is not reported to law enforcement to give people an
understanding of whether there are issues around trust in law
enforcement when there's victimization.
we urge cjcc to begin planning the survey with existing
resources and ask the council to appropriate dedicated funding
for fiscal year 2027. We are also concerned that
non-cjcc reports addressing issues of significant public
interest have not been publicly released.
for example, understanding why people are in the jail for over
five years is particularly relevant, given that five years
in jail costs the district half a million dollars.
we ask them to make this work available to the public.
finally, we appreciate cjcc's leadership on two interagency
initiatives. Both of which move forward our
recommendations from the past. Cce has been attending the
meetings. We encourage expansion of
nonpolice options, including peer support specialist,
development of juvenile prearrest diversion, and
additional police training. Thank you for your time and
consideration, and happy to expand on any of these.
>> thank you very much. Natalia otero, executive
director and cofounder of d.c. Safe.
>> thank you. My name is natalia otero and I'm
here on behalf of d.c. Safe. I came today to discuss the
important undertaking -- sorry. >> pull it closer.
>> sorry. Is this better?
I came today to discuss the important undertaking that the
cjcc has accepted in convening a domestic violence task force.
dv is complex and has a ripple effect that impacts a whole
person, and there must be a recognition that a response
across the public safety cluster , the supportive services
cluster, and the public sector for this to be successful.
we have been pleased to see a greater focus and a more active
involvement from the public safety cluster in domestic
violence and offender accountability in 2025.
we have seen the positive impact that a focused attention of the
city can make to drive down community violence.
that said, we want to point out we have an outsized role, and in
the network of victim service housing providers that impact
both survivors and offenders. The criminal justice system no
doubt has a vital role in offender accountability, but we
know the system cannot stand alone.
d.c. Safe will have served the district for 20 years in
october. We have approximately 100,000
clients in our database with a plethora of good data attached.
we also know that on average are high-risk clients are already
involved with five city agencies when we meet them.
the consequences of the lack of a systemic approach is evident.
in our testimony for the deputy mayor for public safety and
justice, we drew attention to a 2025 db homicide that occurred
within a week after a suspect was arrested and charged with a
dv offense, which also unfortunately ended in a police
shooting at another death. In 2026, we have already seen
two intimate partner violence homicides.
in one, the offender was under supervision for not one but two
db offenses at the time of the murder.
one for homicide of the victim and one for another domestic
violence survivor. Further, one dv homicide
resulted in the shooting of a child, a missing child, and one
child who saw her mother died in front of their eyes.
further, that suspect took his own life.
those of the worst possible outcomes in a city that prides
itself on hard work to address community violence.
in the first decade we implemented our lethality
assessment program, we only lost three clients to homicide.
we know this approach can work, but we also know that no one
agency can move the needle alone.
our city has bright minds working across the district in
many areas. When the right people are
focused on a problem, I have every faith it can be innovated.
we don't expect we will ever be completely free of the worst
possible outcomes, but we can do better.
the working group is a first step toward stronger
coordination across the criminal justice system, but -- I'm
sorry. There are many other areas where
adding to supplementing and appropriately resourcing
existing efforts can go a long way in creating substantive
change. Thank you very much.
>> great, thank you. Kylie hogan, director of
victim's advocacy, d.c. Safe. >> thank you.
my name is kylie hogan. I am the director of systems
advocacy at d.c. Safe. We serve roughly 12,000
residents a year through our unique coordinated crisis
response model. Our services aimed to provide
survivors with lifesaving safety planning information, advocacy,
and resources, but also create essential doorways for our
partners throughout the community to connect
survivors with safety. The scopes of our partnerships
are extensive, including many members of the criminal justice
coordinating council, and we look to those partners not just
to connect survivors to critical domestic violence services, but
also to uplift and expedite the needs of survivors at the
highest risk of re-assault. This is our first year
testifying related to the cjcc , but we want to express our
wholehearted approval that they will combat domestic violence in
their new working group. D.c. Safe and advocates
throughout the city are at their heart's creators of systems
change and we cannot take the awesome responsibility we have
of working with survivors of domestic violence in their
journey to safety without recognizing and attempting to
address we believe this is a much needed
opportunity to consider how the city approaches domestic
violence. We were pleased to be approached
at the formation of this group to discuss what we were seeing
every day on the groundworking with survivors.
we shared vital information from our almost 20 years of service
but also our experience with partners, including
recommendations from the domestic violence system review
and the working group and information learned from our
domestic violence learned pilot with m.p.d. And more.
information on these recommendations or pilots were
previously shared with the committee in written testimony
for the deputy mayor of public safety and justice.
we're happy to share expertise and experience and hope the
working group continues to recognize the critical role of
community organizations and the network of agencies throughout
the district that regularly interact with survivors.
we want to particularly uplift the need for a more
comprehensive focus on the most pervasive offenders.
we've reached out to the past to the jccc with multiple partners
throughout their lifetime and shared our thoughts on the
district's current approach to defender accountability.
while we updifferent the survivors and testimony across
district agencies, we want to highlight here this is only one
side of the coin and without an innovative approach to offender
accountability and building resources and support for
rehabilitation, we'll never consider our job complete.
lastly, we want to uplift the need for sustainable change.
in a meeting with cjcc and exploring the background for the
working group beyond recommendation, we looked at the
biggest deficit they face is a deficit in trust.
all too much we hear survivors say why should they call police
or file an order or move forward with charges because nothing
will happen anyway. We do our best to advocate in
those cases but a loss of faith in the criminal justice system
is pervasive and difficult to shake.
survivor collaboration is often essential to making criminal
justice processes move forward and faith must be restored.
as a group we take a look at the response over the next year, we
know survivors and advocates will be watching and hope to see
success. Thank you for the opportunity to
testify and I look forward to any questions.
chairman pinto: ok. Thank you, kiley.
irene jacobs. You need to accept the
invitation for join as a panelist and want to triple
check we don't have jawanna hardy or l. English here?
all right. Irene jacobs.
ok. Well, thank you all very much.
that concludes our public testimony.
thank you for being here. Ok.
I'm now going to call -- oh, just in the nick of time.
irene jacobs, policy manager, black swan academy.
please go ahead. Irene: good morning, council
members, I'm irene jacobs of the black swan academy and the youth
power and safety coalition. Over the past several years
we've increased investment in enforcing and policing.
at the same time, many youth programs, school supports, and
community based services remain underfunded or unevenly
distributed, particularly east of the river.
when we continue to divest from these development and overinvest
in punishment, we are responding to harm after it happens instead
of preventing it in the first place.
black swan academy cares deeply about our young people and we
see their lived experience every day.
we are here to ask that you all continue to support strategies
that research shows really work to prevent violence and keep our
communities safe. First, strong relationships save
lives. Young people are safe we are
they have trusted adults and positive peers, programs that
match youth with trained mentor and teach conflict resolution
skills have been proven to reduce fights and arrests.
we are asking of the council invest in more mentoring and
skill building and spaces where the youth can build healthy
friendships. Basic needs matter for safety.
when families struggle with housing, food, transportation or
income, young people are feeling the stress of their families.
we need to help families and young people meet their basic
needs. Third, recreation is a violence
prevention strategy. Research shows when youth have
safe and fun places to go after school, such as rec centers,
violence goes down. Most youth violence happens
between 3:00 and 9:00 and know recreation gives young people a
safe place to be. Fourth, services should meet
youth where they are. Many young people don't have the
resources to walk into a clinic on their own.
placing counselors, social workers and violence interruptor
teams in schools, libraries, and neighborhoods would make support
easier. Finally, we must listen to youth
and families. In an atmosphere full of curfew
expansion and limited access to youth sports and current
occupation in our city as well as laws aiming to make young
people pay for crimes as adults, we have to recognize that our
young people are being sent a very harmful message, that they
are unworthy of trust, investment and belonging.
in contrast, when we are able to enrich their lives and
communities, we can build their confidence and self-esteem.
we need to continue investing in quality programs, mentorship,
creative arts and safe spaces for our young people.
they are deserving of joy, growth, and belonging.
young people know what is happening in their
neighborhoods. They know what makes them feel
safe. The city should support youth
advisory councils, pay youth for their time and expertise and
include families in real decisionmaking.
safety is strongest when everyone has a voice.
I urge the district to rebalance its approach by prioritizing
youth development as a core violence prevention strategy and
reducing reliance on punitive measures that do not address
root causes. When we support our young people
in these ways, we make our entire city safer.
thank you for your time. Chairman pinto: thank you so
much for your testimony. And as a reminder, I'll put in a
little plug for folks to support and try to get across the finish
line some bills waiting in the council, one of which is my bill
to open up rec spaces on weekends, another to provide for
custodian support for our open spaces so that more of our
schools can open their spaces to kids and weekends.
another serious of bills I introduced last year are all in
other committees, one would create a teen center in every
quadrant, another one creates an app to connect young people for
paid job opportunities. I want to make sure that we all
work together to support that advocacy for those other bills
in other committees, recognizing how important it is to our
broader public safety mission. Thank you for your testimony.
and I thank all our public witnesses for your testimony.
we are now going to turn to our government witness.
director love. Check tim director of the
coordinating council, christy love.
director love, if you have folks joining from your team, if you
could state your name and position for the record, please.
we can start here. If you could put on your
microphone. >> matthew bouchet, attorney
adviser of the ccc. >> nelia taber, director of
policy. >> director of research and
policy, cjcc. Chairman pinto: wonderful.
thank you. It's our tradition to swear in
all government witnesses who appear before it.
if I could ask you to keep your microphone on and raise your
right hand. Do you swear or affirm under
penalty of law the testimony you're about to provide before
this committee and the council of the district of columbia is
the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
>> I do. >> I do.
>> I do. Chairman pinto: director love,
I'd like you to give any opening statement you may have.
director love: good morning, chair member pinto and chair
member crawford and those here today, I'm kristy love, criminal
director of the coordinating council or the cjcc and joined
by dr. Nelia taber, director research and policy and matthew
bouchet who is our attorney adviser.
I'm pleased to be before you today to provide a testimony of
the performance of cjcc. It's an independent agency and
serve as a forum for identifying challenges, generating solutions
to enhance public safety and the fair administration of justice
here in the district. Cjcc director of staff work with
19 members who direct federal agencies.
the mayor serves as the chair and chair pro tempore of the
cjcc and attorney general brian schwab was recently directed to
serve as the federal independent co-chair of the cjcc.
we organize our work across five priority areas.
they include violent crime, juvenile justice substance abuse
and mental health, incarceration and corrections, and automated
information sharing. The cjcc members preferred to as
principals, identify initiatives for each priority area that
serve as focus for our committees for fy-25 and fy-26.
today I'd like to highlight both the accomplishments of the
committees as well as those of the cjcc staff in support of our
partner agencies. With respect to violent crime,
the focus of the gun stat work room has been twofold, to
monitor the continued justice center involvement of
individuals at high risk of engaging in gun violence and to
develop a method for routinely updating the list of high risk
individuals it. To accomplish the latter, cjcc
staff reviewed the approach previously used by the national
institute of criminal justice reform.
we conducted a lit review, we attended a convening of subject
matter experts and consulted the members of the gun stat work
group and helped us identify methodology for identifying
individuals at high risk of gun violence.
the methodology exists of quantitative criminal history
data as well as qualitative data from mpd, csosa which is our
agency as well as violence interruptors and they identify
key factors associated with persons engaged in gun violence.
we expect to finalize the new gun stat list by the end of
april. Also related to violent crime as
was previously stated, the principals elected to establish
a domestic violence work group. They will identify to addressing
challenges related to prosecuting d.v. Cases and
holding them accountable and protecting and giving voice to
d.v. Victims and survivors. Juvenile justice, we have a
juvenile justice committee that engages in four priority efforts
during fy-2025. Undergo the key drivers of youth
violence, identifying and addressing reasons for long
lengths of stay for committed youth at the youth services
center, establishing a continuum of care for at risk system
involved youth and enhancing efforts to identify and support
crossover youth. We engaged the contractor
opportunity consulting to conduct focus groups of youth,
parents, community members, and youth serving organizations to
understand why youth engage in violent crime and what could
deter them from doing so, appropriate mechanisms of
accountability and prospectives of available services and
supports. Opportunity consulting released
a report in september of 2025 with findings and
recommendations, one of which was to develop targeted
prevention efforts for high risk youth and high risk
neighborhoods. As a follow on to this report,
we convened a session with representatives from coca, inc.
and youth advocate programs or yap and they described their
models for successfully engaging high risk youth and reducing
their involvement in violent crime.
developing a mechanism to both identify and support high risk
youth is a priority for the juvenile justice committee for
fy-26. The j.j.c. Explored several
reasons why committed youth awaiting placement have had long
lengths of stay at y.s.c. Many of these issues stem from
the lack of a psychiatric residential treatment facility
here in the district, with input from jyc members, our staff
released a report earlier this month examining the financial
and social cost of placing youth in out of state rptf's and hope
it can be used as a resource for executive and council when
deciding to build rotpf in the district.
for continuum of care and crossover youth initiatives, we
expect both of these projects to be completed by the end of the
fiscal year. Cjcc convened its first meeting
of the prearrested conversion task force which is responsible
for making recommendations to council regarding eligibility
criteria and components of a prearrest diversion program and
we've been meeting since june 2025.
the task force is on pace for providing recommendations to
council as required by the july 2026 deadline.
we also convene a substance abuse treatment and mental
health services integration task force, a mouthful, we refer to
it as of samson and use it for those individuals who have
substance abuse and mental health challenges.
starting in 2025 and continuing into this fiscal year, they've
been focused on collecting data on drug court and mental health
court participation and outcomes, supporting d.b.h. And
updating the criminal justice strategies in districts live
long strategic plan and addressing gaps in the
sequential intercept model. The priorities for our
incarceration and community corrections committee were to
seek options for moving individuals seeking post
combination rips or seeking early release from the court
from b.o.p. Facilities to local facilities.
second, we focused on understanding and addressing
long lengths of stay for pretrial defendants in secure
facilities. The first issue, the marshall
service, a member of the cjcc was able to reach an agreement
with northern neck jail in virginia which is about a
two-hour drive from the district to temporarily house persons
convicted of d.c. Code offenses who are seeking post conviction
rits under the cars race amendment act.
this will enable these individuals to more readiliy
engage in defense counsel and avoid challenges with attorney
visits at the facilities. The iopc looked at cases with
title 16 youths, who had long, lengthy stays as well as
defendants with long lengths of stay at d.o.c.
for the title 16 youth their length of stay was not out of
the norm for the adult criminal justice system but much longer
than pretrial lengths of stay for the juvenile justice system
which is the population d.r.s. Typically manages.
title 16 youth are reps transferred from d.o.s. To
d.o.c. Custody when they turn 18.
through the work of this commit, d.r.s. And d.o.c. Agree to
establish a data sharing structure to help d.o.c.
adequately prepare for safety and programming needs of the
incoming youth. With respect to pretrial
defendants in d.o.c., unlike the title 16 youth, the committee
did find that they have unique issues associated with their
cases. Case processing delays were
related to discovery disputes, motions for forensic testing,
changing their defense counsel frequently, motions to suppress,
and having multiple open cases. Filling vacant judicial
positions will help expedite case processing for these
defendants. And finally, automated
information sharing. Cjcc's information technology
advisory committee or the itac serves as the body for justice,
the integrated justice information system that
facilitates near real time information sharing among public
safety and criminal justice system stakeholders.
during fy-25, the cjcc members elected to resemble to work
groups under the itec umbrella, the kirk work group and sealing
expungence and set aside work group.
this past year the coop updated the juvenile justice systems
which hadn't been updated since 2012 and it identifies each
member's functions and the point of contact if a disaster were to
occur. We also have the secs work group
which identifies mechanisms to implement the expungent systems
of the amendment act of 2022. The work group in consultation
with code for america and the clean slate initiative
determined that justice would serve as the best platform for
identifying eligible records. However, to make it work, cjcc
would need permission to store court data, corrections data and
no paper data in justice indefinitely and to use those
agency's data for those specific purpose.
unfortunately most of the agencies whose data we would
need to identify eligible records, most are federal, do
not have the data in a format that can be shared with justice.
they refuse to allow cjcc to store their data indefinitely or
refuse to allow cjcc to use their data for this purpose.
the s.c.s. Work group is working for a solution but without the
participation of the relevant agencies and implementation of
the automatic ceiling and expungement purposes of the act
seem unlikely. Lastly, staff accomplishment
also. Of course the work of the
committee is successful due to the implementation of their
staff and also successful due to the hard work and highly skilled
staff who support the work of our members and stakeholders.
we do that in four ways. We facilitate automated
information sharing and conduct research and analysis.
we facilitate interagency collaboration and provide
training and technical assistance.
with respect to justice where we facilitate automated information
sharing and fy-2025 justice had a million records and 3700 users
across 33 agencies. We averaged 760 log-ins per day
and 4,200 searches per day. Cjcc continues to receive high
marks on the annual justice user's survey and more than 90%
of respondents reported justice was necessary for conducting
their work and that they are satisfied with their justice
experience. Our I.t. Team has not become
complacent, however, because of the positive user feedback
instead they continue to seek opportunities to enhance the
system. We fine-tuned the quarry process
and enhanced system security and enhanced information into the
search function and generated new supports.
of a particular note we continue to be on track to complete our
justice modernization project in 2027.
our statistical analysis center or the s.a.c. Generated 129
research and analytical products including routine reports and
one time analysis. Our primary focus has been to
develop and maintain the 20-plus monthly and quarterly dashboards
required by secure d.c. And to maintain jsat which is the
platform the dashboards live. Since the dashboards were
published a average visits increased by 355% since fy-23.
for interagency collaboration, our bread and butter as a
coordination council, in fy-25, we convened 101 meetings and
served as project managers for 21 multiagency initiatives.
making progress on our initiatives require frequent and
consistent engagement with our partner agency and stakeholders
and to do that we must have a fully staffed policy team.
we're happy to say we're going to complete interviews for our
final vacant policy position by the end of this month and hope
to make a selection soon. And in training and technical
assistance. We typically do this in the form
of public meetings and webinars, information sessions.
we had one public meeting this year that was focused on drug
court and hosted four information sessions on topics
ranging from risk assessments for adults, rehabilitative
models for adult correctional facilities and addressing youth
violence. And after a six-year hiatus, we
reconvened our information sharing form and was an
opportunity for users of our justice system to come together
to share how the system supports their daily work and they
identified information sharing gaps and itec we'll prioritize
and determine how best to address those gaps in fy-2026.
in kleeing, I want to publicly acknowledge the cjcc staff.
they continue to be unwavering in their dedication to providing
critical information and support to the district's justice system
often behind the scenes. And I also want to acknowledge
the members of the cjcc in spite of the current environment and
changes over the past year, they continue to show up and find
common ground and they've identified meaningful efforts
that will enhance justice system functioning.
I look forward to their continued collaboration in the
year to come. And so that concludes my
statement. I'm available for questions.
chairman pinto: great. Thank you very much, director
love. I'd like to add my gratitude to
you and your entire team and all the members of the cjcc who at
its core share a belief that everybody deserves to be safe
and appreciate all of your efforts, to make that a reality.
I want to ask you a little bit more about justice.
you talked about some of the importance of the modernization
project but can you zoom out and elaborate a little bit why it is
so important to have a common language of data that we're
using in analyzing what is coming in, whether it be from
the attorney general's office or the courts or otherwise and how
that informs your policy recommendations?
director love: so justice is an operational system, so that
means it's not used for research and analysis in general but used
to really help the criminal justice system function.
and justice is the system that the criminal justice
stakeholders use to communicate to one another.
so, for example, when m.p.d. Makes an arrest, the way they
communicate they've made an arrest and refer to it to the
prosecutors is through justice. There's information that flows
through that system, o.a.j. And u.s.a. Are aware there's been
arrests. When the prosecutors make a
decision, are they going to pay for the case, meaning to charge
the case in court or not? That decision is communicated to
the m.p.d. As well as to the court and others.
there's information on pretrial supervision.
there's information on drug testing results for defendants.
court case information is available on justice.
and if someone violated their rules, that is made through
justice as well as incarceration information.
it really is a critical system and when we have the information
sharing form, we have partners to say I can't imagine how I
would do my job if this system did not exist.
so that's the importance of it. We do appreciate council
providing the capital funds last year to enable us to engage in
the justice modernization project and the reason we're
doing the project is because the software that really undergirds
the function of justice is going to reach end of life in january
of 2027 and so I've just described the importance of the
system. It has to continue to function.
so reusing those funds to rebuild justice on new
technology, we're going to upgrade the interface.
it hasn't been upgraded in about 20 years.
then we're also going to shift the system to the cloud.
chairman pinto: ok. You talked about some of the
hurdles you're having in implementation of the second
chance amendment act. What would the upgrades for
software enable you to implement the second chance amendment act
once all of that takes place on the crowd?
director love: there will be complex coding because we have
to match cases with specific charges with sentence completion
dates. And so the new justice 2 point 0
will allow for that but it's not a technology challenge but
getting permits to use the data for this purpose and also
getting them to agree to -- in order to match data in the
system we have to store their data and right now we have a
number of agencies that told us they won't permit us to store
their data. Chairman pinto: which agencies
are those? Director love: b.o.p. Said we
cannot store their data in justice.
b.o.p. Also has a restriction that -- for detailed sentence
completion information, that they're not able to share that
with nonlaw enforcement agencies, which would include
the court because the court is the one that needs to be aware
of the eligible cases because the court makes the notification
to all the other partners they need to seal and expunges cases.
sosa said yes and there may be some conditions but are willing
to participate. D.c. Superior court, they've
been a partner and really a champion in this.
so the only thing is -- there are a number of scenarios how a
sentence ends. We may all think of prison or
jail but we have probation and parole with sosa and also have
u.s. Probation is another agency that said no, we cannot use
their data for this purpose. Then we have b.o.p., of course,
and u.s. Parole commission is another agency.
I think maybe they would be willing to share, they just
don't store sentence completion that can be stored with justice.
either the data is not in athatt in a shareable format with the
agencies don't want us to use the data for this purpose.
>> are all the agencies that have said no federal agencies?
>> yes. We are still waiting to hear
back from doc. They are the only agency we have
not heard back from. I should add, the implementation
of these automatic sealing and expungement provisions, we put
them in three buckets. The bucket I have been mostly
talking about are cases that are paper with a convention.
the other is paper, no conviction.
that is data we anticipate the court will say yes.
then you have no paper cases. Again, I described justice has
no paper information. Oag says, yes, you can use our
no data paper for this purpose. The u.s. Attorney's office has
said no. So, we are in count --
consultation with m.v.p. -- with mpd.
>> are there other members of cjcc from federal government who
can be leaned on to ensure that the federal agencies participate
in this law? >> most of them have said no.
right now, the court is a local entity that is federally funded.
I anticipate they will say yes. Sosa right now is the only
federal agency that is relevant to this that have said yes.
I have mentioned bop, they said no.
parole commissions does not have the data in the format.
u.s.a.o. Is a no. When you think of structure, the
u.s. Attorney's office, but chief law enforcement officer
and a leader in the federal government side, so I feel like
if they have said no, it is a little difficult to compel
others to say yes. X is the u.s. Attorney's
objection substantive, that they don't agree with the policy
versus not having the software or data functionality to
implement it? >> we didn't get a detailed
explanation for why they are not permitting us to use their data
for this purpose. I do feel like the u.s.
attorneys office has been very vocal to their opposition, so I
imagine there could be a connection.
>> let's continue our conversation about that and
ensuring that the law that we pass can be implemented and that
we can keep moving forward that way.
can you talk about some of the other data barriers you have
experienced over the last year, especially in amassing aggregate
data, whether it is with pretrial detention reports or
other areas where we need to collect data from the courts and
oag and others and how that has looked over the last year?
>> sure. I will turn it over to dr. Tabor
to give a little more detail, but I mentioned justices and
operational system, and we receive data separately to do
data and analysis. But a data challenge we have had
in common on the operational and research side has been limited
access to juvenile justice data. I mentioned we had the
information sharing form. The top issue of what are your
information sharing challenges and gaps, the top issue is lack
of juvenile justice information in justice.
if you look at what flows through justice on the adult
side, the court has a very substantive feet of case
information flowing on the adult side, and that information is
available to the prosecutors and public defenders and pretrial
services, but there is no comparable court fee on the
juvenile side, so there is no court data flowing from one
agency to another. You can search it one by one but
that is very time intensive for an agency partner to do.
the second piece of information that is missing is juvenile
arrest data. Arrest adult data flows through
justice, readily accessible. There is no juvenile arrest data
that is even searchable, let alone flowing through justice.
those are the two big impediments.
there are a few other data challenges related to justice
that we are going to explore with our committee.
I will turn it over to dr. Tabor, who can talk about some
of the challenges we have had on the research and analysis side.
>> I'll try to get close to the microphone.
you mentioned the pretrial detention report.
some of the issues we had with the pretrial detention report
was attempting to identify exactly those individuals who
were affected by the prioritizing public safety
emergency amendment act and the pretrial detention provisions.
those provisions affected people based on charges, criminal
history, supervision history, and the legal standard that was
found at arraignment. Unfortunately in data that was
extractable from partner agencies, only charge
information was available, so we were not able to exactly
identify which people would have been detained or eligible for
the rebuttable prevention of detention following those laws,
but not before. So, that was a main challenge.
another challenge was the availability of juvenile data as
well, as director love mentioned.
>> were those challenges overcome over the last year?
or is that still a challenge? >> I think that is still a
challenge. We are continuing to explore
with some of our partners, whether we might be able to
obtain additional detailed information.
for the report coming up in september, we have several
strategies we are exploring to try to obtain individual level
data that is de-identified but record level to do our
statistical analyses. We will still have some
limitations. >> ok.
what if you randomly selected 100 cases and looked at those as
opposed to looking at every case over the last several years?
>> are you suggesting a specific case review, for example?
doing something that is more qualitative in nature?
>> rights. I am just thinking out loud.
a way to provide the analysis, but with these data limitations,
maybe instead of looking at every case that went through,
you take a randomized sampling, then consider the but for that
intervention, what would happen in that case?
>> it would create some context for qualitative analysis.
thinking about that suggestion, I would you not to use a mixed
methods approach to do both a series of case studies and to
try to continue our quantitative analyses and take a statistical
approach that lets us look at the entire sample of people
affected by the laws. But I think a mixed
method approach is appreciated. >> are you all on track to
produce the report? >> I believe so at this time.
>> ok. So, how are you going to
overcome the data hurdles? >> I think we are having
additional discussions with pretrial services.
that is an agency we may be able to lean on to get some
information, so we will have that conversation with them and
get back to you to let you know if the ability to meet the
deadline is going to be affected.
>> I will just say, I don't think I could return to my
colleagues and ask for another extension.
>> understood. If they are able to accommodate
and provide the data, we can meet the deadline.
what will hurt us is if they are not able to provide the data do
to maybe the privacy act. >> who is they?
>> the pretrial services agencies that we think might
have the data that can meet the needs of the report.
again, our federal partners are under the privacy act.
privacy act says you cannot share record level identifiable
data with non-law enforcement entities, or for research and
analytical purposes. There are some circumstances
that they will share. For example, if we can present
them with specific individuals and they give us input on those
individuals, that is the circumstance that maybe they can
share. But if we are going to them
asking them to generate information on individuals from
scratch, that is usually where they say we are not able to do
that. >> all roads lead back to the
privacy act. >> they lead to the privacy act.
>> for the public, while we cannot change that law locally,
it is something I do think we should seek to change fed overly
-- federally so we can have research to understand these
crime data trends so we can have the best policy moving forward.
just put that out there. And something we need the
federal government to act on. >> I just want to add a couple
more data issues. On the juvenile side for some of
our dashboards, we have not been able to produce a juvenile
dispositions dashboard. The disposition, we were focused
specifically on dispositions for gun possession and violent crime
with gun cases. We have been working for the
past year or more with both the court and oag, trying to figure
out how best to get that information.
some of it stems from what I just shared about justice, that
the juvenile prosecutors are not getting information about
juvenile case dispositions in their records management system,
similar to how you soa have. These operational gaps are also
affecting our ability to do research and analysis.
we are in the process of engaging in data sharing
agreements with a lot of our partners, and especially on the
juvenile side. We understand that juvenile
confidentiality is important, so we used to get some record level
data from oag, but they paused on that and said, let's get that
data sharing agreement in place so we have appropriate
parameters for how cjcc is using that information.
they have been giving us aggregate data, which has been
helpful. However, the way we built the
dashboards, they are supposed to be interactive and you can click
on subcategories and all the data changes so you can peer
into the subcategory. When we get aggregate data,
while we appreciate it, it does not allow for that
interactivity. It also does not allow us to do
rearrest analysis, and I know that has been a question that
has come up. People want to know how often
they are rearrested. If we do not get record level
identifiable data, cannot match against the mpd data, we cannot
do rearrest analysis. >> are you confident that if
that data at a record level was shared with cjcc staff, not
members, not the public, that it could then be re-aggregated in
order to protect the privacy of each young person?
>> yes. And we have had similar
arrangements with other agencies.
for example, we've received information from osse in the
past and dbh in the past, d chf, and the agreement has been yes
you can get the data but you need to put it on a standalone
computer that is not connected to network, then de-identify and
do all the analysis and destroy the original data.
so, we have had other agreements where we have done that.
if that is what oag and others think is necessary to protect
juvenile data, we are happy to do that as well.
>> but to date, they won't share the data?
>> not record level data, until we can get this data sharing
agreement finalized. We sent that back to them may be
a month ago, so hopefully we can move forward on that.
>> ok. That would be great.
it is something I spoke to the attorney general about at our
oversight hearing a week or two ago because it is an important
part of the operation, so hopefully we can have some
progress there, and soon. Can you talk about the need to
obtain d.c. Superior court administrative orders in your
ability to access certain juvenile data, and how that is
impacting your ability to produce these reports on a
timely basis? >> yes.
going back to the juvenile confidentiality statute, and I
am main lean on that a little bit for detail, but you have
juvenile case records, juvenile law enforcement records, and
social records. For a specific provision for
each of those, there are certain types of agencies that can have
access to inspect or copy those records.
cjcc is not listed among any of those agencies.
it is typically the agencies that are supervising law
enforcement, the court, prosecutors.
the way we are able to get access to juvenile data under
those statutes is there is a provision that the court can
provide access, and maybe I will turn to you.
>> certainly. As director love said, there are
three separate statutes, each of which contains a provision that
says other persons -- the court may grant the authority to
inspect records to other persons having a professional interest
in the protection, welfare, treatment, and rehabilitation of
the respondent, if authorized by rule or special order of the
court. Because we are not the criminal
justice coordinating council, we are not listed on the
list of entities to inspect the records, that is limiting our
approval to get records that are otherwise protected by each of
those statutes. >> so, the process of getting an
administrative order, we submit it, but the court has a lot of
requests coming its way. I think we have at least 20
administrative orders, because every time we want to do a new
analysis that involves juvenile data, we have to get an
administrative order from the court.
that is our only way to get access.
sometimes we have gotten orders issued in a matter of months,
and then we have maybe a couple. It has been almost a year since
we made the initial ask for an administrative order.
so, it can be time-consuming, both for cjcc staff and the
court that has to write these orders and issue them.
it can also prevent us from generating juvenile analysis in
a timely manner. >> thank you.
well, I hope to address that very soon in a bill we are
considering to streamline that process for you all, so thank
you for raising that. Can you provide an update on the
domestic violence working group, how that is going and if there
are any trends that the group has identified, or policy
recommendations you are considering to address a very
concerning continuing trend around domestic violence we are
seeing in the district? >> we actually had our kickoff
meeting yesterday, and we have director jennifer porter from
the office of victim services and justice grants, and denise
beck tall cochairing the group. Yesterday, to help frame the
discussion, we shared some information and maybe it was
shared earlier that, yes, we are grateful we have seen the
decrease in homicides over the past couple of years, but the
domestic violence related homicides are not following that
downward trend. So, that is a bit alarming it
really is the impetus for the group to do this work.
in general, the group is looking at, how can we better hold
offenders accountable? How can we support prosecutions,
and how can we give victims voice and make sure they are
safe? The cochairs took us through a
helpful exercise yesterday where different agency representatives
identified what their challenges are.
some of those challenges are just process related.
and then the group, we have an online forum, and the process of
voting to process those challenges.
but some that have come to light and maybe rose to the top in
yesterday's discussion was a lack of detailed information
about stayaway orders. We do have stayaway order
information in justice. Justice 2.0 will be better, but
right now justice 1.0 is not super mobile accessible.
if you have officers in the field, they can pull it up but
it is not that accessible. I think there is a preference to
get that into mpd's system. That is a project that we will
likely take on so they can have information like is this the
right address associated with the stayaway order?
we do need to wait for the court to finish its project of
upgrading its case management system before we can then launch
into the project. One of the other issues is with
the issuance of protective orders, and whether or not they
are even being served, and may be lacking documentation of
serving those orders. I think those are issues that we
are going to explore and see what solutions we can come up
with. I think there is more with the
voting process that the group went through yesterday that will
come to the forefront. >> and how often is that group
set to meet? >> every other month.
>> every other month, ok. I would like to come to them
next meeting if I can invite myself.
>> sure. >> thank you for your focus
there because I agree those trends are alarming and we need
to be thinking about our interventions.
holistically and how to get to people earlier and ramping up
some of the education work that we heard from some of our public
witnesses with d.c. Safe. I think it will be important
there. Last september, cjcc
commissioned the opportunity consulting group to deepen the
district's understanding of youth involved violent crime.
the report lays out several actions for consideration,
including expanding meaningful career pathways and paid youth
employment and targeting prevention for high-risk youth
in neighborhoods. After you receive a report like
this with a series of recommendations, what are your
next steps in trying to get those recommendations into
action? >> this has definitely been a
focus of the juvenile justice committee, and that is led by
attorney general schwab and judge higashi, the presiding
judge at the family court. We have talked about these
recommendations. The composition of the juvenile
justice committee is juvenile justice agencies and other youth
serving agencies. But when it comes to things like
employment for youth, we realize we have some partners that are
not at the table. For example, the department of
employment services. I think for those types of
recommendations, the juvenile justice committee, we would
definitely be supporters and champions, but we probably are
not going to be the group that will be able to expand
employment opportunities. Our job would be to alert
relevant agencies to those recommendations.
I think the group is going to focus on the recommendations
that are within the justice system.
one of those is the recommendation to identify the
high risk youth and have targeted supports for them.
that is a focus area for the cjcc this fiscal year.
we had an initial conversation about it a couple weeks ago.
when you talk about high-risk and especially a concept of some
sort of list, people get skittish, understandably so,
because that information needs to be used responsibly.
so, we have the discussion of, do we flip the order?
do we first figure out, what are we going to do to support
high-risk youth, and what is the best way to do that?
that was one of the reasons we have the session where we
brought in rocha, we brought in yap, that argue about it --
evidence based solutions to help high-risk young people.
we did the continuing of care work.
we had a site visit to philadelphia and visited a group
that is working with high-risk young people in philly and has
had great success. We can look at some other
models, see what model might be best for the district, then that
can help inform how we go about responsibly and ethically
selecting who the high-risk youth are that we are going to
serve. >> when do you think you will
have that list? >> I think we are going to have
to agree on how to select. There is some analysis we have
done. That was the thing, especially
gun violence or violent crime in general.
it is a small number of people who may be perpetuating it.
we see that on the adult side and we see that on the youth
side too, that there are some youth we have seen be repeatedly
arrested for violent crimes in a short period of time.
perhaps that is one way to identify who we consider to be
high-risk. But it will have to be a
consultation with the group. We on our end, we can look at
what does the research and literature say about best
practices for identifying these populations.
I imagine that is something we can do during this fiscal year
for sure. >> and is there any coordination
with the dhs pilot to identify truant youth and the kids who
haven't been going to school for days, sometimes weeks and months
on end? >> dhs participates in the
juvenile justice committee, and we actually supported them in
their analysis of the truancy pilot.
that is another example of needing an administrative order.
we have not been able to release that analysis because we need an
administrative order from the court because it relies on
juvenile data. So, it has been sitting there
since last summer, but we need the ao to release it to counsel
and publicly. We have not yet looked at the
list of truant youth. My guess is that analysis did
look at their touches with the juvenile justice system, but we
are not able to talk about it publicly at this time because we
don't have the permission to do so.
>> I think that is a really good example of when a very specific
administrative rule is hindering access to public information and
progress. Because we need, especially as
we gear up on budget, we need access to that report for the
dhs truancy pilot to know what interventions are working.
our home visits a great tool? Should we be expanding those?
but without the report, we are flying blind as policymakers and
that is not good for anyone. Back to we will be moving's
shortly a legislation that addresses it.
then the psychiatric residential facility report is something you
all came out with that outlines both the financial and
nonfinancial trade-offs associated with the district's
reliance on out of state placements and a district based
facility. Can you briefly summarize some
of the findings of the report, how cjcc is thinking about that
analysis moving forward as we consider next steps?
>> I will just say, on the financial side, we did collect
some information but we leaned heavily on the work that was
already done by dbh and the mayor's office of budget and
performance management to estimate the financial cost.
dr. Tabor can dive into what are some of those social costs that
came out of that report. >> certainly.
one of the main findings we found from discussing with all
the partner agencies was that the long wait times to placement
themselves can have a significant mental health effect
on youth who are awaiting placement.
they understand they are not moving toward a resolution of
their case. They are not receiving the
intensity of mental health care services that they by definition
need from having been referred to ap atf, and they can
experience that wait time as rejection, which can exacerbate
underlying mental health issues. There are also organizational
challenges, making sure the right credits are in place,
making sure youth are able to transfer credits back and forth
between the educational provider and dcps.
they may come home in the middle of a semester and have trouble
re-accessing school. And the distance itself can be a
significant mental health challenge.
some of these are multiple states away, and it is very
difficult for youth to be so far away from family, from friends,
from their local environment, and it also presents challenges
to having in-person visits with family members, since only two
people may visit at a time. So, a parent and child may go.
if both parents go, someone has to take care of other children
in the home. Then there is the reliance on
out-of-state pr tf's which presents burdens on staff time
that many of the staff we talked to felt could be better served
by engaging with families, with youth, with case management,
doing the substantial work of trying to provide services and
support for children. When it comes to reentry, there
would be a much stronger step down process to enable children
to reenter back into their communities and families in a
way that is structured, thoughtful, and forward-looking.
>> thank you for that. That concludes my questions for
you all today. I want to always give you a
chance if you have any closing thoughts or you want to
highlight something that we didn't get the chance to talk
about today. >> I just want to publicly thank
the cjcc staff, the cjcc members for hanging in there.
it has been an interesting year. And I do appreciate people
showing up and still caring about public safety in the
district and investing their time and resources to make sure
we have a safe city, and to make sure our justice system is fair
for everyone, and we are trying to operate more efficiency and
use taxpayer dollars the best way we can.
so, just a sentiment of gratitude I want to leave with
today. So, thank you.
>> thank you very much. As a reminder, some of the
follow-ups we need to continue working on together to get the
juvenile data access for the secure d.c. Dashboards, the
pretrial detention revised report, and any other analysis
that is needed. The changes to the
administrative order to be able to release cjcc analysis on
truant youth, and other analyses.
continue to work together to identify additional data access
points to implement the second chance amendment act.
and then attendance at the next working group.
fantastic. Thank you and thank you to your
team for all you do every day. It is vitally important.
as I mentioned in the opening, I don't think it is something
everyone in the public knows about.
as we head into the budget, it is important for the functioning
and safety and justice of our entire system to make sure cjcc
is funded and well staffed and you all have the support you
need, so thank you for all you do.
appreciate it. We are going to move to the
office of police complaints. I want to triple check one more
time that l. English is not here.
ok. All right.
we will call director bert cross, the director of the
office of police complaints -- director marke cross, the
director of the office of police complaints.
welcome, director cross. Good morning.
as you know, it is our tradition to swear in government witnesses
who appear before it, so if I could ask you to turn on your
microphone, which is the red button, and raise your right
hand. >> is it on?
>> it is on. >> do you swear or affirm that
the testimony you are about to provide is the truth, the whole
truth, and nothing but the truth?
>> I do. >> thank you.
I know invite you to make any opening statement you have.
>> thank you. Good morning, chairperson pinto,
and members of the commission. I am marke cross, the executive
director of the office of police complaints.
thank you for the opportunity to testify about the performance of
the office of complete -- police complaints, and its governing
body. The mission of opc is to improve
community trust and the police departments through effective
civilian oversight. It is a common denominator among
cities that embrace forward thinking policing concepts.
in the district of columbia, the role of community participation
and police oversight is provided by opc and the pcb.
I'm sorry? Oh.
all right. How about now?
thank you. In fiscal year 2025, opc saw a
continuation of an unprecedented number of complaints filed that
began in fiscal year 2017, recording an all-time high of
1065 complaints, representing a 13% increase over the previous
year. In fiscal year 20 25, we
maintained an even better outcome and result from the work
put into our internal procedures in previous fiscal years, but
with greater accountability and transparency.
this was accomplished despite numerous challenges presented by
a record high number of complaints received during this
period and the unusual fiscal year 2025 budget constraints
that every agency experienced. In fiscal year 2025, the large
number of complaints opc received translated into opening
501 new investigations with 147 complaints already opened at the
beginning of fiscal year 2025 that carried over from fiscal
year 2024. Opc investigators conducted more
than 485 complaint related interviews during fiscal year
2025. These included 470 community
interviews and officer interviews.
one of our top priorities is to continue our efforts in
minimizing the time it takes to resolve a police
complaint. Overall in fiscal year 2020
five, opc resolved 90% of investigations within 100 80
days. Opc continues to manage its
investigative efficiency despite receiving a large number of
complaints. At the end of fiscal year 2025,
opc averaged 89 days between a case being opened and completed,
compared to 355 days 10 years ago in fiscal year 2015.
opc's fiscal year 2017 midyear report was the first glimpse of
body worn camera data, following the full deployment of
body worn cameras. Fiscal year 2017 annual report,
opc reported that on mpd's compliance with its own body
worn camera usage policies. In fiscal year 2025, 81% of opc
cases had some sort of body worn camera footage, which is an
increase from the 77% over the previous year.
a total of 70% of opc cases with body worn camera footage
included some kind of body worn camera noncompliance, compared
to 33% in fiscal year 2024. Nonetheless, body worn camera
footage exponentially contributes to more efficient
case processing by our agency. In addition to investigating a
result, we have the responsibility to identify
topics for policy recommendations made to the
mayor, the council, and the chiefs of police of mpd.
in fiscal year 20 25, pcb published three reports.
one was the implementation update on the commissions of the
board from 2023. The duties of firearm licensees
and stop and frisk data. Opc continuously strives to
increase the public's awareness of the agency's work and the
service it provides by participating in outreach to the
community. Opc has a social media presence
on its twitter account come on now known as x.
it's facebook page, linkedin page, and we use these to
communicate to the community regarding outreach activities,
policy recommendation reports, protest monitoring activities,
and operations. These platforms also allow the
communities communicate with us by bringing community events to
the agency's attention or contacting us with questions or
information they might have. In fiscal year 2025, opc
conducted 31 outreach events to local universities, schools,
academic or community affairs, neighborhood association
meetings, and neighborhood commissions.
opc also presented its interactive training programs at
various public and charter schools.
opc also continues its community partners program in fiscal year
2025 with 22 community partner organizations.
our agency is committed to enhancing the operations of the
community trust in the district police forces that serve the
nation's capital, and we will continue to work with the
community, district council, mpd, to improve upon the
current model of civilian oversight to ensure the
district's police forces are operating with best practices.
however, our mission effectiveness is dependent on
persistent collaboration with mpd.
this committee and the mayor. Statutory authority ends with
recommendations and fostered partnerships.
implementation of the pcb's recommendation is in the hands
of partners who have authority over mpd and not our agency
specifically. Opd has experienced an
unprecedented rising complaints compared to last year.
as of january 31, 20 26, the agency has received 390 seven
complaints, a 33 percent increase when compared to the
same time in fiscal year 2025. The average caseload for an
investigator sits at 19 cases, which is significantly higher
than the 10 to 12 cases recommend by best
practices. To address this increase in
complaints and avoid a potential backlog, opc has requested
approval to convert two vacant positions to increase with this
workflow. These positions were created and
funded to assist expanded jurisdiction after passage of
the conference of police and justice reform act.
although the positions themselves were funded, the
relevant sections of the statute were either not funded or not
included in the final version. Opc is comprised of a small
staff, dedicated district employees who are experienced
and well versed in police accountability and oversight,
and regularly exchange information with oversight
offices throughout the united states and abroad.
we would be happy to share with the committee any trends and we
look forward to continuing this discourse on how to improve
policing in the district. I would like to thank the
committee for its time and I'm happy to answer any
questions you might have. >> thank you so much, director
cross. And thank you and your team for
all you do every day. I know it is a small but mighty
team. As you noted, this year there
has been an uptick in complaints coming in.
the work that you do has always been, but especially this year,
and a vital opportunity for the public to make their voice heard
, to make sure everybody is held accountable.
we all have to follow the law, including those who enforce the
law. So, thank you for what you do.
I want to ask you if you could start with an understanding for
the public of what the process looks like if someone from the
public wants to file a complaint.
how does that work in practice and how can they follow up on
the status of their complaint? >> of course.
if anyone wants to file a complaint with our agency, they
can go online to our online complaint form.
or they can contact the agency directly via email or telephone
and we will make sure we send a complaint form to them, via
regular snail mail or email if they prefer.
once received, the complaint form has to be signed.
we begin the process of the investigation, so that begins
with interviewing the complaint ant.
then we make requests for body worn camera footage, and the
purpose is to gather enough information to be able to
resolve the complaint. Throughout the process, during
every critical stage of the complaint process, we provide
updates to the complainant. That's in the form of notices,
mailed notices or emailed notices.
however, a complainant is always free to contact our agency and
speak with a mage -- a manager or the actual investigator.
>> in a limited staff environment, which I know you
are in, how do you prioritize complaints coming in?
is it first-come, first-served? >> it is generally first-come
first serve. >> in your prehearing responses,
you referenced that mediation can help accelerate the timeline
for closing a case. What does mediation look like
and how has that looked over the past several months.
>> we found that mediation is a useful tool in resolving police
complaints and increasing community's trust with both the
officer and complainant meeting together with a professional
mediator and reach an understanding about what
happens. They can both listen to each
other's side of what occurred, and find some common ground.
we conduct surveys prior to and after each mediation session,
and the reviews we receive are overwhelmingly positive as far
as the process is concerned. The way the process actually
looks is once we receive the consent of the complainant an
agreement of the complainant to participate in mediation.
it is not mandatory for the complainant.
however, it is mandatory for the officer.
once the mediation session has taken place, if both the
complainant and officer agree to resolve the matter through
remediation, they sign a form and we end up closing the case.
>> great. In fiscal year 2025 and 2026 to
date, how many complaints have you received about mpd not
following the law are related to immigration enforcement?
>> I believe -- I can't answer that question exactly.
however, I do know we have received at least three.
>> why do you say you can answer that question exactly?
>> I'm sorry, I don't have an exact number.
I can answer the question but I don't have an exact number.
the three I am pointing to, they stem from the well-publicized
incident that occurred outside the bilingual public charter
school. >> all three of them do?
>> yes, three people filed a complaint who were there.
>> interesting. And what is the status of those
complaints? >> one of them was resolved
through mediation. The other was closed because the
complainant did not participate in the process.
the third one is open and we are conducting a full investigation.
>> ok, thank you. So, you know in your prehearing
responses there have been 609 complaints filed since august
11, 2020 five, which represents a 20% increase of complaints per
month and a 25% increase in complaints since august.
how are you and your staff managing the increase in
complaints and getting to the resolution?
and have those recommendations then translated into agency
action or change this year? >> what we have been doing is we
have a wonderful staff, very talented investigators, and they
are very good at managing their time and workload.
they are doing their best every day to accomplish at least
something and make some progress on their caseload.
we have always encouraged our investigators to use that
strategy as far as resolving complaints or concern.
my predecessor did and we continue to do it.
it hasn't quite become unmanageable yet, the caseloads,
but it is getting to that point at the moment.
it seems like right now what we are doing is -- it's not that it
seems, what we are doing is trying to resolve the cases that
are the low hanging fruit, for lack of a better phrase,
complaint that would be best resolved through mediation.
we are trying to make use of all the tools that are enabling
statute provides us to get to the complaints to resolve the
complaints. To easily resolve complaints as
quickly as possible. As you know, some of the cases,
they generally take more time. Those are now taking a bit
longer to resolve. For example, we usually have a
rate of about 10% to 15% as far as cases that aren't resolved
within 180 days, and I believe we are up to 20% right now.
and that number grows every day. >> in terms of the next steps
for action and policy recommendations, the office of
police complaints and the board came out with their 2020 five
annual report covering a variety of issues including mpd's
adherence to recommendations and trends.
the report noted, and I am quoting, the fy 202557 officers
received three complaints. 17 officers received four
complaints. Nine officers received five
complaints. 11 officers received six
complaints. Four officers received seven
complaints. Does opc have recommendations
for how discipline or retraining should evolve based on whether
the receiving officer has a continuing level of complaints
against him or her? >> at the moment, our agency
does not have the authority to make recommendations about
discipline. We believe that if we were given
that authority, we would be able to assist mpd in assessing the
kinds of discipline it imposes on its officers.
>> is that authority that just hasn't been given to you
legislatively? Or that has been determined
through some other body or arbitration with the union, that
you are not allowed to provide guidance?
>> that his authority we have it received statutorily.
>> ok. But it hasn't been adjudicated?
>> that is correct. >> interesting.
>> I believe the comprehensive policing and justice reform act
sought to provide us with that authority, and it was either not
funded or not included in the final version.
>> got it. Thank you.
does opc communicate whether the officer in question had prior
complaints against it in your next report?
if a new complaint comes in and you are reviewing that case, is
that past history included in your report, even if it is not
included in a discipline recommendation?
>> generally no. >> why is that?
>> we try to assess each incident on the current facts,
on a case-by-case basis. Because we have no say in
discipline, the officer's previous behavior generally
isn't relevant to the actual investigation.
we are concerning the current facts and circumstances that are
before us right now. If the officer did something
bad, it doesn't necessarily mean they did something bad this
time. >> hmm.
yeah, I guess I'm just thinking about, especially if it is a
similar type of complaint, and if it is not resulting in
discipline, that past context seems to be important in
analyzing how they are doing as an officer.
>> I agree 100%. However, because we don't have
the statutory authority to make those kinds of recommendations
come out we just don't -- that is what I'm trying to say.
I'm not saying it doesn't matter, because it does matter.
the way the system is currently set up, and the powers we have
been given under our statute, which we don't have the
authority to make those kinds of recommendations.
>> your report also concerning leigh noted that 65% of mpd
officers turned on their body worn cameras late when
interacting with a complaint. Does ocp have any
recommendations for how mpd should better train their
officers and ensure full compliance with their body worn
camera roles? >> yes.
they can train the officers -- potentially provide retraining
to officers. It has been nearly 10 years
since the initial full deployment of body worn cameras
by mpd, so perhaps it is time for refresher training.
however, there is another way as well they can prevent this, and
that would be by activating the buffer.
I don't know if you have ever watched body worn camera
footage. There is two minutes of silent
film. That is not a technological
limitation, that is actually choice.
mpd can enable sound during a buffer but they choose not to.
they usually point to officer privacy issues, when it comes to
that. But it has been well settled
that police officers have a diminished expectation of
privacy when they are on the job and acting with members of the
public. >> with you say privacy, is that
because they might be doing something personal?
or because they are arriving to the scene and could have a
privacy issue? >> it is usually because they
may be doing something personal. >> like getting dressed?
>> no, not like getting dressed. One of the examples we were
given is if an officer is talking about their spouse or
something like that, then something all of a sudden
happens, they don't want that getting out.
>> interesting. >> yes, which is kind of odd to
me too because mpd have access to the body camera when they
release it. I don't necessarily know if that
is a valid excuse. >> thank you.
I will ask the chief about that later today.
another policy recommendation made in 2023 is mpd has not
entirely complied with stop and frisk data.
the recommendation stated mpd should make the stop card
field in the system to ensure officers are documenting the
required data for each stop, and mpd should train its officers to
report the required information for each stop and train
supervisors to review and verify reports.
why has mpd not complied with those recommendations?
>> they have complied to an extent.
I can't really answer that question.
mpd would be in a better position to answer that
question. >> to better phrase it, how do
the current cards differ from the recommendation?
>> the current stock card, it is really good.
I believe it was designed by the aclu.
I have a version of it right here in front of me.
it lists all the information that one would want to document
a stop, the stop type, the reason for a stop, whether they
ran the person through the law-enforcement database,
whether there was a search or frisk conducted, the reason for
the search, was the search consent or nonconsensual?
but the best part is there is a section for what specific facts
gave rise to the reasonable suspicion regarding the
indicated crimes. What specific facts gave rise to
the original suspicion that the person was armed?
this section provides some very important information to
document the stop. Mpd, when we issued this policy
recommendation, they told us the information we were discussing
was also present just below the stop card.
however, if you look at the section just below the stop
card, what we are seeing and reports are, for example, what
was the reason for the stop? Individual's characteristics.
we believe the card provides a greater level of detail and
would greatly assist mpd in complying with the court order
in the statute. >> thank you, director.
that is helpful. We have been joined by my ward 5
colleague councilmember zachary parker.
I will turn to you now for a 10 minute round.
>> thank you, and it is good to see you, director.
during the jps performance hearing on february 11, the
deputy mayor noted there was a mediation between mpd and d.c.
bilingual, which you referenced as well.
I am assuming opc ran that mediation?
>> we did. We contract with third-party
mediators, so we facilitate that.
>> what was the outcome? >> it was resolved.
>> what does that mean? >> the complainant and subject
officer reached an agreement. They found a common
middleground. >> does that mean a handshake?
does that mean a monetary agreement?
what do you mean it was resolved, if you can elaborate?
>> what that usually entails is we contract with professional
mediators from outside the district.
we sit the complainant and subject officer in a room
together with a professional mediator and they have a
conversation about what happened.
what generally happens is they discuss both of their
perspectives, individual perspectives of what occurred,
then they will agree to either resolve the case after their
discussion or not resolve. >> was it determined during that
mediation that there was collaboration between mpd and
federal authorities? >> the mediation sessions are
confidential, so I don't even know the information about what
was discussed. >> based on the mediation, what
has opc learned about how to reestablish trust between mpd
and the community? >> what we found is it is good
to have individual discussions between members of the public
and mpd. However, what we have seen is
the presence of the federal task force has greatly eroded the
public trust in washington, d.c. >> as well as what appears to be
a level of gas lighting. I anticipate we are going to
hear today do breasts examples and incidences where there
appears to be collaboration. In that february 11 hearing with
the deputy mayor, she reiterated again, there is no collaboration
between mpd and ice, or other immigration enforcement
agencies. There is a direct conflict
there, and the consequence is diminishment of trust that our
government agencies are telling us the truth about
collaboration. One of the things that struck me
is the deputy mayor said, if neighbors have instances where
they are seeing collaboration, they can file a
complaint to opc. She referenced, we just don't
know the examples that neighbors are referencing.
even today, you're saying you have only received three
complaints, all of which seem to center on the d.c. Bilingual
incident. Is that right?
>> that is correct. We have not seen many examples
of collaboration between mpd and --
>> very money or any? >> very money.
-- very many. I am tracking what we have seen.
>> earlier in this testimony, you said you only received
three. >> I said there's only three
that I know of. >> that's not what I heard.
if you can share that, are you able to get that information
during today's hearing? >> I can definitely get you the
information afterward. I have a spreadsheet.
>> can you give a ballpark of how many complaints there might
be? Are we talking less than a
dozen? >> definitely less than a dozen.
>> more than two? >> more than three.
>> more than three. So, there are complaints that
neighbors have made about collaboration between mpd and
federal immigration authorities? >> yes.
>> that means there is a misalignment between what we
heard from the deputy mayor and what you are telling us now.
what we were told on february 11 is there have been no
complaints. What I heard you say less than
10 minutes ago is there have only been three complaints, but
now we are hearing, maybe there are more complaints.
>> I said there were at least three.
I know for a fact of three. >> I am going to keep going for
the sake of time. When we talk about trust, this
is part of the factor, and it calls into question what we are
to believe. Respectfully, executive leaders
are asking us not to believe our eyes, not to believe what
neighbors are showing and telling us, which continues to
be a challenge. In response to question 15b, you
report that the agency missed its goal of publishing five
policy recommendation reports. I believe you issued three.
does opc have plans to put together policy recommendations
for mpd on the collaboration issue?
>> yes, yes we do. We are currently drafting that
right now. As I mentioned before, we have
been tracking those complaints, and yes, we plan on issuing a
policy recommendation. >> do you have a sense of
timeline? >> within the next two months,
for sure. Just one moment, I would also
like to much of the fact that we only published three reports
last year. We didn't meet our goal of five.
that does fall on me. We had a transition of
leadership. Our executive director retired,
then we had our legal counsel go on maternity leave.
that is the role usually responsible for drafting those
reports. I was acting as the deputy,
executive, and legal counsel because I was the only licensed
attorney left. >> sufficed it to say, stretched
thin. >> yes, but we believe we owe
the city and community more policy recommendations.
we know we can't unring the bell.
>> it is safe to say that by the end of april, we should expect
those recommendations? >> yes.
>> in response to prehearing question 38c, opc notes there
has been a 25% increase in complaints against mpd
since august 11 when the federal surge began.
in fiscal year 2020 six, there has been a 33% increase in the
number of complaints since the same period in fiscal year 2025.
is that correct? >> that is correct.
>> but you are not able to tell me how many of these are related
to collaboration between mpd and ice?
>> no. The reason why it is these
federal task force complaints, it is not just ice agents they
are with. >> are you able to tell me the
collaboration between mpd and immigration authorities?
>> that is the other thing. C1
it is more complex than that. The number of agents who tend to
be in the task force and on the teams, it is a wide variety.
anywhere from the u.s. Marshals to homeland security to irs
agents. >> I would take any information.
respectfully. >> right now we received about
87 complaints about the federal task force.
I can tell you that nine times out of 10 it is usually a
homeland agent. >> walked me through that.
87 complaints. Have you mediated or addressed
all those complaints? >> we have done investigations
on them. Some of them involved in pv
officers -- mpd officers. >> excuse me.
thank you for being here. We cannot have a talk from the
audience that way. >> it sounds like you have
addressed although. Or are in the process of
addressing all of them. >> if there are federal
authorities, we refer those. I'm not familiar with that
process. >> what you were discussing
earlier, you don't have the authority to affect change even
after investigation. So what happens after?
>> it depends. >> there is some sort of
mediation. What other action items result?
>> if the complaint is unable to be resolved through mediation,
then we perform a thorough investigation.
the complaint could be dismissed on merits.
it could be referred for training.
>> do you have any number for how many of those complaint
violations you have had? >> we forwarded a few.
>> we have many more numbers. Now you know the numbers.
to your knowledge, none of them relate to collaboration?
it sounds like once you do that it is out of your control.
>> we don't have any sick -- say in that.
>> who has authority over the complaint examiner?
there were allegations of misconduct.
what is the most common type of misconduct?
>> it is how many officers, not how many total.
>> so far they have been 229 officers.
what is the most common type of misconduct that you are finding?
>> the most common type is usually in the harassment
category. Harassment can encompass that.
>> could it be that more harassment is happening?
>> that is happening. >> I am challenging you because
it seems like the numbers are undermining.
that is why we are seeing this increase.
before we were already starting to rationalize why.
>> is too early to tell of the moment.
we have received a significant increase in the number of
complaints. That would correlate.
with what we are hearing from district residents.
it is not aligning. We are being told not to believe
what we are seeing in the numbers.
we are told not to believe what we are hearing and seeing from
district residents. That is the definition of gas
lighting. One last question, does opc have
any insights on what the current numbers are so high?
we were just talking about that a little bit.
>> I think of it a lot of it can be attributed to the federal
task force. We have seen a number of
complaints every year. Last year was the biggest issue
at 12%. There has been increased
visibility. It is easier to file a complaint
now. A lot more people know about us.
this was the first year are majority of complaints came from
the public. After august, we did receive
that. That has to do with the increase
visibility and the increased number of contacts that law
enforcement is making. >> I will stop there for the
sake of time. Thank you.
I do believe it would be a value add to just notify for those
watching, how does one make a complaint?
>> you can contact our agency. By email or by phone.
you can also go to our website. That is easy to fill out.
as soon as we process it, and investigator will contact you.
>> there have been other organizations this year that
have stepped up and provided other opportunities for the
public to issue a complaint. The aclu is one of them.
are there any efforts to work with those organizations to see
what complaints are coming to them especially as there may be
a lack of education in the public on how to best make a
mistake -- complaint? >> that is in the works.
one of our former deputy directors, mild loss, now works
for the aclu. I would like to get in touch
with her and see if there is anyway we can work together on
anything. Our board is in favor of that.
we discussed that a lot. >> I would ask that you do that.
I think that will be another good avenue to make sure we are
following up on those complaints and have a very accurate sense
of where they are. All I was encouraged to read
that mpd since most of your policy referrals to the metro
training facility. Do they then follow up on if
there are improvements to the training or outcomes based on
those recommendations that have been sent to the academy?
>> not in a formal sense. But we do it in an informal way.
we do evaluate the training process.
members of our staff attends the annual professional development
training that is held every year.
from that we usually have discussions about it.
we also have informal mechanisms of communicating with the
trainers at the academy. If we start to see some trends
that will become alarming, we will contact them.
and voice our concerns. >> great.
how many full-time staff do you have?
>> we have about 30. >> ok.
thank you very much. I look forward to receiving that
report and recommendations at the end of april.
I want to give you a chance to make any closing remarks he
might have or highlight something we might not get a
chance to talk about. >> I want to thank my team.
my entire agency. They do a wonderful job.
they are very knowledgeable. They are working very hard right
now. Under hard circumstances.
I would like to thank the committee for giving me a chance
to speak today and for its continuing support of our
agency. The committee and the council
have always been supportive. We definitely hope that
continues. >> thank you.
I will give my thanks to you and your entire team for the
important work that you do. As a reminder of some of the
things we talk about, we will be talking about body worn camera
violations and not activating cameras early enough.
that is an interesting area to probe.
we look forward to getting back to us on the total number of
complaints that involved the federal task force.
we will need that number. The recommendations you will
have on federal collaboration that we will expect that the end
of april. The earlier the better if you
have that ready. And then a request to work with
the aclu or any other organizations that are
collecting complaints so we can all be going off the same page.
thank you very much for being here today.
>> thank you. >> ok.
that concludes. >> I am the witness you have
been missing. I was delayed by the police.
I would love to tell you what has happened.
>> we will hear your testimony and then we will turn to the
metropolitan police department. Ok.
welcome. You signed up to testify.
so we will hear from you together on both.
would you like your testimony included is a record for both of
those agencies? >if you can put your microphone
on. >> hello.
I should know how to use a microphone.
you can add my witness testimony to wherever you might like.
a series of horrifying events of it happening in my life since
2017. I have been the victim of
repeated police brutality of six different occasions.
I called 91 with her help and the police came and beat me and
tortured me. One officer and others, a whole
group of officers came to my house without a warrant or
probable cause. When I cut out to answer my
doored naked and wet from the shower, they entered my
apartment and beat me down and sat on my back and tased me
while it was wet from the shower.
I filed a police complaint. They said these officers, they
found no wrongdoing. That happened on january 26,
2021. They charged me with a u.s.
felony threat. They said I was the mastermind
of a plot to kill all the white people in america on november 5,
2017. They put me under surveillance
for two years. They terrorized me.
I lost my job and my family and everything.
there was a home invasion. Police officers came to my house
40 minutes late. I made a call.
several other officers arrive to my house.
I told him what happened. I said I'm going back to my
house to lay down because I'm on bed rest for me being hit by a
car. These officers attacked me in my
living room. This was the third time I have
been attacked. Right now I am charged with
assaulting a police officer. I would like to show you
something. This is what has happened to me.
I have over 40 injuries as I stand before you.
I have been to war for this country.
this is how I have been treated. I can no longer afford to pay
for my house. I lost my job.
they threatened to kill my five-year-old son.
because he took pictures and video of police officers dealing
drugs and guns in a park behind my house.
these officers who have dealt drugs and guns.
I reported this. These officers came to my house
and beat me. There is video evidence of these
officers. They threatened to kill my son.
he has been out of the state for three years.
I filed a report. They investigated it and then
they seal the report. I am fighting this case.
against falsified charges. >> I'm so sorry to cut you off.
I'm so sorry for what happened to you.
that sounds terrible. We will follow-up with the
office of police complaints on your case.
if you have longer testimony you can submit it to the record and
we will read it through but we do have to move on to our other
100 witnesses. >> may I ask that you unseal it?
>> we will follow up. >> I really want you to know
that I have been terrorized. For over a decade.
they have beaten he entailed me and done all kinds of things to
me. I got to make it part of the
public record. >> thank you.
thank you for being here. I am sorry for what you have
experience. Thank you for being here.
we are going to turn to the metropolitan police department.
we will call our first panel of public witnesses.
welcome all. We are going to begin with our
u.s. Representative. From the congressional
delegation. Please go ahead.
everyone has three minutes to present.
>> thank you so much for allowing me to be here.
I come before you not only as a representative but a child of
immigrants. Does mpd collaborate with ice?
such a simple question but we rarely get a simple answer.
what I do see is officers at the scene of ice jump outs.
whether it is collaboration or looking the other way, we all
see complicity. Now we are at a crossroads.
in minneapolis, we saw ice agents removed.
I saw people rise up for themselves.
get national attention. They said to get out.
our mayor thanked our federal occupiers.
I know we are vulnerable. We can speak on the office of
the mayor. What can we do to protect
noncitizens? Let's increase funding.
we need services to combat this racist agenda.
we need to allocate millions of dollars for language services so
our english as second language speakers can get proper
protections. We need to force mpd to keep
body cameras on. If they are on our side, it is
time for them to show it. Lastly, they are building a $300
million ice complex blocks from my house.
there has been no opinion on that.
there are organizations that make billions of dollars that
are attached to this facility. We need councilmembers to speak
out against this and resisted. Use our budgetary powers to make
sure that those who make money off of us are not making money
of the people who terrorize us. I am calling on you to bring in
the rest of the council members to hear these conversations.
it is not enough for you to be here.
this is one of the biggest conversations.
thank you. >> thank you.
>> good morning. Let's talk about police using
noncertified interpreters. You have an officer trying to be
an interpreter and an officer. You cannot hold two salaries at
once. They are saying use a certified
interpreter. Try to be an interpreter.
so many time my ex-wife sprayed me, maced me.
I had to move because of my safety.
I have a civil protection order on her.
she violated it. She had me jump at the giant
called the police. They did nothing.
the detective called me the n word.
my mother burst me. If you want to know why people
like me trust the police. I have to look over my back
every single day. It will take a death before
police will do something. They are not going to take my
family. But for does something.
this is between life and death now.
you have done everything. They are not certified as an
interpreter. You have to use a contractor to
interpret for the deaf client. I have a problem.
do you want to know why I cannot trust mpd?
why do I hate the? She sprayed me and my eyes so
badly I call the police. The officer looked and said oh
well, keep going. They said that's the only option
you have. The police department, we want
to know why that is happening. Thank you.
>> thank you. I am so sorry about what you
experienced. Our team is working with you to
look into your case. For your testimony from last
week. We really appreciate you being
here today. >> hello.
I am the executive director. I'm here because we are
experiencing an emergency. Masked gangs of federal agents
are shooting at, disappearing, and killing people in our
community. A couple of weeks ago a u.s.
marshal shot and killed someone. He was a beloved father,
husband, and sun. Today we will hear from his
family. It is our collective
responsibility to make sure there is justice for him.
and that questions get answered. Why did a federal agent respond
to the 911 call that resulted in his death.
this came after dhs agent shot into the cars of black men.
this task force is literally killing us.
trump's agents are anonymous to us and that is dangerous.
officers are required to display badge numbers and names.
the never obscure their faces. Incident reports carry their
names. Judges and prosecutors and
defense attorneys have accurate information when making
decisions about probable and charges.
we need federal officers to be subject to the same rules.
we urge you to cosponsor the full accountability and arrest
reporting emergency amendment act of 2026.
it already has seven cosponsors. Including the councilmembers who
joined us earlier. This is about safety.
without these identifiers it is impossible for any of us to know
who is law enforcement and he was a kidnapper.
I appreciate you sending a letter for more information
about participation in the task force.
I totally share your frustration with the response that you got.
today is your opportunity to hold and beat -- mpd
accountable. The stakes could not be higher.
this is an election year. Agents of this regime are
running around d.c. Unchecked murdering people.
the goal is to intimidate and destabilize so they can suppress
consent. We are begging you to reflect
the power encourage of people in the city.
to gather this community has 11 demands that are in my written
testimony. More than 1000 people have been
disappeared or deported. At the same time, the council
has taken nearly zero action on any of this siege or the
recommendations that were put forward on december 12.
refusing to protect our people is not smart or strategic.
it is an approach that signals to a regime of bloodthirsty
pedophiles and racist oligarchs that we are an easy target.
we are not an easy target. The council needs to make it
crystal clear that d.c. Will never be influenced by the
priorities of stephen miller and the occupation.
stop cooperation and free d.c.. Thank you.
[applause] >> thank you very much.
>> thank you. I am a lifelong washingtonian.
a proud product of dcps and howard university.
I am your public. I do not feel safe.
I must briefly acknowledge something important before I get
directly to my mpd part. So far, the council has stood
firm. Yesterday, the attorney general
offered a formal legal opinion confirming the congress failed
to repeal that law because it was outside the statutory review
. You are upholding the home rule
act. You are showing courage.
remarkably. Stay the course.
do not read couple the tax law. Do not read couple yourself to
this regime because what we are facing is not random.
it is episodic in a pattern of authoritarian consolidation of
power. You know that when control of
our budget and they want to bankrupt our city, overwrite our
local laws, sees authority over police, normalize a federal
presence in our neighborhood. Your appeasement will not stop
it. Neither congress nor stephen
miller nor the white house. Targeting d.c. Because you try
not to poke the bear. We are already being targeted.
more than 30 bills seek to override our laws.
the federal surge is already here.
flying under the radar will not save home rule.
courage from the council and the mayor and the cfo and the
attorney general might. In the interest of time I will
trust other residents and experts to speak at length about
the five black men who have been killed at the hands of federal
agents. I will notwhere is the public om
our elected officials denouncing that escalation for a traffic
stop in the middle of the day? In january, I personally watched
a whole city block outside of metro center flood with federal
agents responding to a minor disturbance, young ladies in a
screaming match. I have seen a black man get
arrested outside of rhode island row, and mpd came to carry him
away. It is not proportional, it is
not transparent. It is a militarized spectacle
that increases fear, doesn't reduce it.
mpd's mission of promises transparency.
you may not control federal agencies, but you absolutely
control mpd. You have the authority and
obligation to ensure mpd does not become a further conduit for
unchecked federal power in this city.
you defended d.c.'s authority in the tax fight.
that same resolve is required here.
if the mission is truly justice for all, any form of cooperation
with militarized federal forces that operate without
transparency cannot continue. We capitulate out of fear.
if we have loud notarized tactics to become normalized, we
have jeopardized our safety and our dignity.
your leadership is not about calculating if we have the
cards. Stand up for the people who
elected you. Even when the federal government
attempts to intimidate our city into submission, set aside your
ambitions for your political futures long enough to protect
my children, my neighbors, my city.
stand up for d.c. And don't back down, no cooperation with
occupation. >> I appreciate you all being
here. Thank you for your testimony.
I am going to ask everyone to please help me.
I do hate cutting you off, but we have to keep to three minutes
each. We have over 100 witnesses and
we want to make sure everyone gets their time.
thank you for being here. Thank you for your testimony.
>> lilie gerkin, abby organ dari, christina hanson, jerome
hinkle. As you all come up, I will just
remind folks that I introduced a bill yesterday that does three
things that allows for access, requires body worn camera
footage. It requires a listing and
database from the use of force that has happened this year, and
requires a maintenance of records for agents and where
they are being deployed. So, I hope folks can support
that legislation in getting that across the finish line.
lilie gerkin. Abby opeogandare.
christina hanson. Jerome hinkle.
amad m. Lia cheek.
commissioner ashley ruff. Raymond tolson.
tara vanacore. Raymond?
raymond is here? Great.
aunt tara. -- and tara.
wonderful. Ok.
so, we will begin with lilie -- lei lei gerken, free
d.c. >> hello, my name is lei lei.
I am a resident of ward 3 and the mother of a brilliantly
gifted, courageous, and amazing special needs child.
I reflect fellow native washingtonians and I am
testifying today as a constituent, advocate, and
activist, because I am deeply troubled by the metropolitan
police department's ongoing coordination with federal law
enforcement agencies and the lack of accountability that has
accompanied it. For context, I am profoundly
disturbed by the killing of julian bailey by u.s. Marshals.
according to public reporting, mpd did not respond to the
initial allegation that he had threatened someone with a gun.
instead, u.s. Marshals service bond it.
after mr. Bailey's killing, both mpd and u.s. Marshals did not
meaningfully produce or request -- or provide requested updates
regarding the status of the investigation.
the lack of transparency compounds the harm.
when agencies deflect responsibility instead of
providing clear answers, it signals to residents that no one
is fully accountable. When a call is made in any
neighborhood, we as residents need to know who is responding,
under what authority, and with what level of oversight.
federal tactical officers operating in our city,
especially in response to local allegations, fundamentally
changes the risk profile of encounters.
it raises a serious concern about due process and civil
rights. Armed agents concealing their
identities, body camera footage delayed were not
produced, and erodes trust. All residents deserve to live in
a city where law enforcement is identifiable, accountable, and
transparent. Instead, we are witnessing
blurred lines of authority and diminished oversight.
I understand that the dc council does not control federal
agencies. However, you absolutely have
authority over mpd and its participation in joint
operations in which our residents are being disappeared,
kidnapped, murdered, and violated.
you have authority to demand transparency regarding any
agreements that permit federal agencies to respond to local
calls for service. You have authority to require
documentation, reporting, and clear boundaries.
furthermore, I firmly oppose the appointment of jeffery carroll
as permanent mpd chief. His previous tenure ended amid
serious concerns of transparency and leadership judgment.
at this critical moment when residents are demanding clear
boundaries between local policing and federal overreach,
we need leadership that will prioritize accountability,
community trust, and the protection of civil rights.
we cannot move forward with leadership that does not commit
to these principles. >> thank you.
and please make sure to submit your full testimony and it will
all be included in the written record.
thank you so much. Abi ogandare.
>> hello. I live in ward 1.
I am testifying as a representative of free d.c.
because I am concerned about mpd's ongoing cooperation with
federal law enforcement agencies.
is that better? In the past years, mpd has
increased cooperation with federal law enforcement who are
using violent tactics, especially against black people,
immigrants, and those opposing their fascist regime.
they are ignoring the law, lying about incidents, and evading
accountability for the harm they have caused.
on the back of every mpd car, they declare, "we are here to
help." but I have to wonder, who is mpd
helping when they are racing down u street at dangerous
speeds to catch teenagers on electric scooters, speeds that
would get us jailed? Patrolling you street and other
various agencies, harassing our unhoused neighbors, threatening
to arrest people for having an unlit joint, disregarding d.c.
residents. With the officer jingling his
handcuffs on a woman clearly expensing a mental health crisis
helping her? Was the officer who skirted up
to the sidewalk helping them? Mpd demanded I open my purse to
show them a backpack was not in it.
were they helping me? Where they helping him?
there are many people afraid to leave their houses since the
occupation began. Schools in ward 1 have seen a
drastic drop in attendance because parents are afraid to
send their children to school, and children are afraid that
when they come home their parents will not be there
anymore. The education budget does not
have enough funds to ensure every child pre-k-12 has an
afterschool program to attend, but mpd does have the budget to
hunt our children as a fun afterschool activity.
free d.c. Has 11 demands. I am here to talk about numbers
4, 5, six, and eight. Prohibit mpd from coordination
with federal agents in the sensitive locations like school,
health care facilities, and organizations providing aid,
repeal local qualified immunity protections for federal officers
making arrests, as well as officers who enter edc
school, community center, or house of worship, require mpd to
file a report on any interactions they have with a
minor, including conversations on the street, and restrict
vehicular pursuits for all federal agencies.
in addition to this request, I oppose any appointment of
jeffery carroll as a permanent mpd chief.
I ask you do the same. As a d.c. Resident, I know that
I cannot rely on mpd to help me, only my community.
I know we all want a violence free d.c.
so I asked, what has the dc council done to stop mpd's
aggressive and often reckless behavior, allowing mpd to learn
from, coordinate with, and follow the lead of trump's
federal detention machine is not the way we will achieve that.
I ask you take action today and heed our demands.
thank you for your attention on this matter.
we keep us safe. >> thank you.
raymond tolson, free d.c. If you could turn your
microphone on. >> chairperson pinto and members
of the committee on judiciary and public safety, thank you for
hearing me today. My name is raymond tolson.
born and raised right here in ward 7.
I am one of the cochairs for free d.c. Ward 7.
I am here today because mpd's growing partnership with federal
law enforcement has turned every day policing into a pipeline of
violence, especially against black and disenfranchised
residents. Since mpd voluntarily joined
donald trump's d.c. Safety and beautiful task force and mayor
bowser created the operations center to support it, we have
watched mpd merge its work with federal agents.
residents have seen mpd officers traveling with federal agents,
conducting stops with them, and coordinating -- militarization.
and the results have been deadly.
on october 13, a dhs agent opened fire on justin brian
nelson. On january 21, fbi agents used
flashbang grenades during a traffic stop on marion barry
avenue, pointing guns into cars with no justification.
and on february 12, u.s. Marshals responding to an mpd
request shot and killed julian bailey in mayfair.
the list goes on, as stated in my testimony that was emailed to
you. Dhs has repeatedly lied about
these shootings. This is a system where federal
power is being funneled into local police.
meanwhile, mayor bowser appoints jeffery carroll as interim
police chief. His history is aggressive -- his
history of aggressive tactics to first amendment rights.
I urge this committee to investigate mpd collaboration
with federal enforcement, close the immigration enforcement
loopholes, advance the safety community police amendments, and
reject jeffery carroll's nomination of permanent
chief of police. >> thank you.
tara vanacore, free d.c. >> good afternoon, chair pinto,
and members of the committee. My name is tara vanacore and I
live in ward 1. I am testifying today as a
representative of free d.c., and as the pto president at a title
I dcps elementary school. I urge the council to consider
the detrimental effect that mpd's cooperation with federal
law enforcement agencies is having on public safety and our
city. I begin by quoting a neighbor
who does not feel safe submitting testimony.
federal agents are terrorizing our community members and we
need to feel safe going to mpd. I couldn't agree more.
I live in columbia heights, which has been relentlessly
targeted by the president's d.c. Safe and beautiful task force.
the joint actions of mpd and federal immigration agents are
creating an atmosphere of fear and isolation in my
neighborhood. Too many are unable to share
their stories today. At my kids school, which is
majority black, brown, and immigrant, we have had several
for emily's self deport since spring of 2025.
some have left to follow a parent who has been taken.
others to avoid for separation. It is reflected in enrollment
and the budget. Each time I learned of a family
leaving, I wonder if it is a classmate of my second or fourth
grader. Forced to start a new life in a
country they may never have visited.
just last month, the pto board organized a fundraiser for a
family of five that was leaving d.c. Within the week.
we have had parents ask for help walking their kids to school
because masked agents were staked out in front of their
building. There was a raid in an apartment
building nearby in which agents who did not have a warrant enter
the home and arrested three people.
as a result, families who live in that building have kept their
kids home. We provide essential services
beyond the curriculum, from health checks to groceries to
clothing for the family. Our families are being
intentionally deprived of these resources.
following the mayor's director, families facing threats to their
safety are on their own. They cannot rely on mpd to
protect them. Increasingly, mpd joins the
operations I just described. A photograph I will never forget
is mpd, fbi, and hsi agents standing in the cardoso high
school parking lot overlooking a football game in september 2020
five. We have now seen the perceived
unruly behavior at such a game might end in detention,
deportation, or worse. Last spring, helped order toys,
water, and food. The thought that a member of our
community might need to hide in an elementary school for days or
weeks defies belief. What is more disturbing is that
our police department, whose job should be to protect d.c.
residents from the inhumane attacks of the administration is
working to harm those who are most vulnerable.
I share free d.c.'s request of this committee and of dc
council, which are listed in my written testimony.
in order to establish trust with our communities, mpd must stop
collaborating with federal agents and be held accountable
for the harm it has inflicted in the past year.
thank you. >> thank you very much.
thank you all for being here today for your testimony.
we appreciate it. Natalia otero.
nee nee taylor. Dr. Taylor.
shanice bailey. Commissioner trupti patel.
and it is ok for this one, but for future panels, if we can sit
in the order I called you. It is ok for this one.
go ahead, it's all right. I'm just saying for future
panels. It will help us keep track of
everyone's testimony. We will begin with natalia
otero, executive director and cofounder of d.c. Safe.
>> thank you. My name is natalia otero and I
am here on behalf of d.c. Safe. D.c. Safe has served the
district for over 20 years this october.
we have served almost 100,000 clients and I have been here
since the very beginning. I speak today in my role as an
advocate executive director and a member of our broader
community. I want to focus my testimony
today on the needs of the immigrant survivors.
you will hear my colleague jenae wilsen today about broader
oversight. I want to express my great
concern for mpd's continuing cooperation with ice.
we recognize the challenges the district faces with federal
interference in critical aspects of home rule but we must
acknowledge the toll it has taken on victims of domestic
violence. We have seen fewer survivors
coming forward. I am hearing from our community
of providers that mpd cooperation has been
increasingly challenging. That is unfair and not aligned
with the stated values for victims to be further isolated,
trapped, and to endure escalating violence.
I ask you to consider how the dc council can guide the deputy
mayor for public safety and the police department to be more
clear with the community about how they intend to support and
treat victims of violence. I would appreciate that question
being asked of the new chief today.
this political conversation has a big toll not just for the
populations most directly affected, but for trust in law
enforcement as a whole. The conversation isn't about
legalities and a citizenship status.
the conversation is really about how society and tends to treat
each other. It is about humanity, dignity,
and collective rights to the most basic freedoms and respect.
having participated and listened to testimony related to mpd's
performance for many years, and having maintained a successful
relationship with them for 15 years, we strongly believe this
has benefited survivors in the district as a whole.
we must fiercely guard against any approach that dissolves the
vital games that have been made over the years.
the fear and isolation that this type of policing creates
increases the risks for survivors and their children.
as I mentioned in testimony to criminal justice council this
morning, there is already a deficit to trust for survivors
in the criminal justice system as a whole and for their
barriers do nothing to move the needle in addressing domestic
violence or creating safety for them.
what kind of future are we creating for ourselves when
these children live through violence, isolation, and
experience visceral fear of reaching out to those who should
be entrusted with safety of their communities?
I testified at p.m. Ps -- dmpsj hearings and heard the response
to having federal agents in the community.
it was interesting and encouraging, but even after
attending the hearing and working closely with mpd, I
still have little clarity on how to speak to our clients about
what to expect from mpd. For the first time in my 20 year
tenure, I cannot assure them they will be protected.
>> thank you very much. Dr. Nee nee taylor, executive
director from harriet's wildest dreams.
>> good morning. My name is nee nee taylor.
I am the executive director for harriet's dreams and the
cofounder of free d.c. For full transparency, I don't
want to be here today. It is my duty and commitment for
those who came before me to keep hope alive and continue to fight
to free d.c.. I am testifying today in the
spirit of my entity, the first black senator councilwoman, and
my mayor for life marion barry, who gave me my first job here in
d.c.. They were freedom
fighters and I will continue the fight.
d.c. Still is not free. We are being enslaved by this
president and republican government.
I ask this council rise up on the shoulders of those who came
before them and fight for d.c. D.c. Is under attack and you all
have tried to reason with the people on the hill, and it has
been proven that when we give them an inch, they take a foot.
it is past time that you all stop being complicit
in protect your constituents. The government has contributed
to the hurt and harm that is being done to the black and
brown people in washington d c. Mpd is the leader of the task
force. This legislation has emboldened
the white supremacy law enforcement agencies to have
their way in d.c. Without any accountability.
others lift up their names in incidents where mpd has not kept
our community members safe. I for one understand that mpd
has a legal responsibility to work with federal agents.
yet in this capacity that they are working now, it is a no.
when a u.s. Marshal can respond to a local police call and shoot
a constituent 10 times and mpd is not on the scene, that is
very problematic and unacceptable.
julian bailey's blood is on all of your hands.
our board is here today so you can see firsthand what they are
going through. On mlk day I had to kidnap a
16-year-old girl back from u.s. Marshals.
they had her in handcuffs and were trying to lock her up for
the actions of a 36-year-old man who was grooming her.
they arrested the man, but because it was federal law
enforcement, I was unable to get the man's last name, nor could I
track him through court watch d.c. Of his criminal background
or what was happening because it was in federal court.
with what I am saying today, we must fight for change.
I ask that the council vote for emergency legislation, that
would keep your constituents safe.
the only thing changing around mpd and local policing is the
year. They are still killing black
people. I've had my personal experience
with jeffrey -- jeffery carroll.
we shut down the inauguration. Carol was on the dust was a
commander then and was listed in the federal case where all of us
was found not guilty. I urge you all to say with your
chest and do not make police officer jeffrey carroll the
new police chief thank you. >> thank you.
trinity's bailey. Welcome.
>> good morning. My name is trenice bailey.
on february 11, my life changed forever.
my husband of 12 years was shot and killed by u.s. Marshal.
my husband was shot and killed. Let me say it again.
my husband was shot and killed. My husband of 12 years.
by u.s. Marshal. Julian berry was just 43 at the
time he was killed. He was a father of five children
, ages 25, 21, a set of nine-year-old twins, and a
five-year-old. As well as a stepfather to my
two older children, who are now 30 and 20 five.
he was also heavily involved in his community.
he was a cheer dad, a real cheer dad.
we have videos of him going up there, being the only brave
cheer dad to wear whatever the girls would put on him.
she took his responsibility as cheer dad very seriously.
he encouraged kids in the neighborhood to not go down
paths that could cause them to disrupt their lives.
he literally paid young boys in our neighborhood to help shovel
out the community during the recent snowstorm, because they
didn't come on our street. But all that doesn't matter,
because he was killed by u.s. Marshals on february 11.
why, you ask? That is what we have been
collectively asking pam bondi, muriel bowser, the current mayor
of d.c., and the current director of u.s. Marshals.
why were u.s. Marshals involved? Julian was not a prisoner, nor
did he have a warrant for his arrest.
why does our government want -- why doesn't our government want
to release more details? What are you hiding?
if the marshals were a part of the joint task force, this is a
further reason this needs to end now.
u.s. Marshal czar not trained to conduct traffic stops or
interact with innocent people. You are placing district
residents at risk. How many more husbands?
how many fathers and sons need to die before you do
something? My children will never see their
father done. I will never get to nestle in
his arms again. I will never get to hear him say
my name because he spoke proudly .
we were a team. I literally became a widow and a
single mother all in one day. Why?
because you failed to keep us safe.
you failed to keep my family safe and our community lost a
good man. I had a reality check, and I'm
sorry to take this time but I have to say this.
we had a life together, we dreamed together.
I have to explain to my five-year-old every morning
since that day that her daddy is not coming back.
she literally says, mommy, I miss daddy's heartbeat because
he put her to sleep every night, because we worked full time but
he was that type of man that we shared.
there was no I am just going to be out here.
my nine-year-old twin daughters said, mommy, who is going to
check the boyfriends? Because daddy said he is going
to check all of them. Who is going to walk her down
the aisle? I have another daughter who she
won't talk to me anymore. I say, are you ok?
mommy, I don't know. She won't speak.
she's not herself. She literally is about to be in
the starring role as elsa in "frozen" in may and I am
concerned she may not do it. She has been practicing for this
play every single day, she and her dad singing "let it go," and
I am scared that she is not going to do it.
this hurts. It hurts.
so, I want answers, because you guys don't have to face these
girls. I do.
and you guys can go to sleep at night.
I can't. I'm tired but I can't sleep
because my husband is not there with me.
he was my protector. That's it.
thank you. [applause]
[crowd chanting] >> thank you so much, ms.
bailey. Thank you for being here and
sharing your story. I am so sorry about this
unimaginable loss. Your husband sounds like an
incredible man. And thank you for being here.
and we are going to try to get as many answers as we can about
what happened here and get to the bottom of this.
thank you for being here and your courage.
chair trupti patel. >> before I begin my testimony,
I do want to take a moment and say ever so gently, I am so
sorry. Good morning, chairperson pinto,
members of the committee on judiciary and public safety.
thank you for holding this performance oversight meeting so
my comments may be entered into the official record.
my name is trupti patel and I am a fourth term advisory
neighborhood commissioner. I am the chairperson of anc
2a. I am also the longest-serving
elected official who was also a tipped worker.
I am the legacy of two suitcases and eight dollars.
I am a proud immigrant kid. I am here to testify regarding
the performance of metropolitan police department during 2025
and 2026. I want to be clear on the
outset, effective policing depends not only on enforcement
but public trust, data integrity, and accountability.
over the past year, these pillars have been seriously
tested. First, crime data integrity.
throughout 2025, serious concerns emerged regarding the
accuracy and classification of mpd crime data.
federal investigation and whistleblower disclosures it
issued allegations that data was manipulated or misclassified to
present a more favorable narrative.
this contributed to leadership of people and severely
undermined public confidence in the department's reporting.
accurate crime data is not optional.
it is the foundation of policymaking, resource
allocation, and trust. Sorry, I lost my place.
went residents believe numbers are unreliable, they lose faith
not only in mpd but in the entire safety framework.
second, civilian oversight and officer accountability.
during this same period, the office of complete -- police
complaints issued several complaint volumes involving mpd
officers, including allegations of harassment, inappropriate
conduct, and excessive force. While complaints alone do not
establish wrongdoing, sustained increases .2 issues that demand
oversight, transparency, and timely discipline where
warranted. The committee must examine not
just individual cases but whether mpd is meaningfully
impotent look -- implementing recommendations and closing the
loops between complaints, discipline, and policy reform.
third, organizational culture and leadership.
the events of 2025 expose deep concerns in internal culture,
including whether officers and commanders felt pressure to
report data in a particular way, or field -- feared retaliation
for issuing concerns. A police department cannot
function effectively when integrity is subordinated to
optics. As mpd moves forward under the
leadership, this committee must assess whether reforms are
structural or merely cosmetic. Finally, community trust.
public safety is the strongest when communities view police as
legitimate partners, not unaccountable institutions.
rebuilding trust will require transparency, honest data,
independent audits, and consistent engagement,
especially in communities most impacted by both crime and
policing. I have just 30 more seconds.
in closing, and urge the committee and the council to use
this performance oversight process to demand for things.
independent verification of crime data --
>> I'm sorry. If everyone went 30 seconds
over, we would be here four additional hours, and I will
hear from everyone today. >> I did submit this for the
record and we will have a resolution around this as well.
>> thank you for being here. And ms. Bailey, I did just want
to ask you, if I can, has there been any conversation or
information provided to you from the u.s. Marshals service,
status of investigation? Have they communicated with you
at all? >> no one has called me.
not mpd, not anyone. I don't know.
I don't even know where my vehicle is.
I have to rent a car every day. My husband was working, but his
check is gone. They sent me his last paycheck
already. We are waiting for the
insurance, life insurance, but that hasn't went through yet.
my job is trying to help me as much as they can, but I only
work. It's like, what's happening?
do you even know that my husband exists?
I don't know what happened. >> ok.
we are going to do everything we can to try to get to the bottom
of this. Thank you.
thank you all for being here. Robert vinson brannum.
leah tribbett. Sam davis.
jillian buford. Mr. Branham, if you can sit on
this seat here on my right, and we will go in that order.
leah tribbett next to him. Sam davis.
robert vinson brannum, chairman of the ward 5 leadership council
public safety committee. Welcome.
>> greetings and salutations. I am robert vinson brannum.
I am chairman of the ward 5 leadership council public safety
committee, president emeritus of the d.c. Federation of civic
associations, and a board member of the d.c. Open government
coalition. I am also a former anc
commissioner. Outside of advocating and being
arrested for d.c. Statehood and for the rest -- right of women
to make their own health decisions, public safety has
been and remains a priority issue for me.
I have been a victim of crime and walked the streets of d.c.
with my bloomingdale neighbors to take back the streets.
you don't -- I don't take a backseat to anyone.
I've testified in support of mpd, but yesterday president
trump gave a state of the union address and lied to the american
people. If I were to present a state of
public safety in the sea at this time, I cannot tell a lie and
declare all is well. Yes, crime is down, but not to
president trump. It is also down trust for mpd.
the people have lost trust in mpd because of the ride along
with the inhumane, unconstitutional, and racist
immigration policies of president trump, d.h. Secretary
kristi noem, and white house advisor stephen miller.
the decision to transport to federal agents to terrorize
people is unconscionable. The decision not to be
transparent about the level of joint mpd and ice operations has
had dramatic negative impacts in d.c. Communities where it is
vital for public safety. In a surprise letter to me on
d.c. Law and order, president trump attacked your leadership
and other members leadership in the city, and the people in the
district of columbia. During a meeting requested by
the white house with me this past august, I expressed my
strong opposition to the president's federalization of
mpd and activation of the national guard.
I have challenged u.s. Attorney jeanine pirro's assertion
that this is the crime capital of the nation.
mpd has been sacrificed and lost in a political play to keep a
presidential bully and mag a congressional republicans
at play. People are willing to pay the
ultimate sacrifice. I am somebody.
I am somebody. For edc, for edc
--free d.c. I would like to submit the
letter signed by your president, because he isn't mine, that lies
about d.c. And crime. Thank you.
>> thank you, mr. Brannum. Leah tribbett, public witness.
>> good afternoon. My name is leah tribbett and I
am a resident of ward 1 and anc1 b.
I also taught middle school for over 10 years, which is honestly
really relevant to this hearing. In my seventh graders
encountered something they didn't know, they used every
method to find out more. When they witnessed something
that wasn't morally right, they fought to make it right.
yet for the past year and longer, all I have heard from
the leaders of the city when it comes to public safety is, I
don't know, and I can't do that, ask someone else.
my smith graders would never accept those answers for
themselves and I am at a loss as to why you think we should
accept them from you. I think of the middle schoolers,
all of our kids looking for a model of what a thriving
community looks like, and instead seeing a counselor and
police department that cares more about criminalizing them
just for existing, covering up attempted murders, and executing
our neighbors in the streets than they do about their actual
jobs. We are seeing in interim chief
who has openly protected white the premises.
we are seeing officers collaborating with federal
agents terrorizing the city. Your hearing mpd officers say in
meetings that they automatically assume teenagers are criminals
if they are outside at certain times and detain them without
question. They are seeing mpd officers and
leadership want that they don't care about the law and refused
to be held accountable to it. Not that you have made any
attempt to do so besides signing a single letter.
I could sit here and share more stories that we have time for.
about the officers I watched tackle a teenage boy to the
ground because it was 10 minutes after curfew and he was still
walking home come about officers who have openly violated the
sanctuary values ask, by exploiting any loopholes they
can to disappear neighbors, or arresting or harassing for
filming. Nothing has changed and we don't
have the time to keep playing these games when the mpd is
murdering our neighbors without remorse or accountability.
for every person who lives in d.c., your message is clear.
you valuate your power over our lives and we are disposable to
you. There are so many things I could
demand that would protect us that I don't have time to name
them all, but here are three, all of which are within your
power. One, and mpd's participation in
the safe and butyl task force. Two, fully comply with the task
force. Three, hold mpd accountable for
every broken law. All three of these are something
that can be done within the district and are what we
deserve. We deserve a city where we can
exist without fear that mpd officers covering their badges
will harass and attack us alongside masked an unidentified
federal agents, where at best they will traumatize us and at
worst they will execute us. If you actually care about d.c.,
if you look at the city and see a community worth protecting and
celebrating, you will listen to us.
I said this in november at councilmember nadeau's
roundtable. I said in december at your
hearing pairing I am saying it again now.
maybe this'll be the time you actually hear me.
thank you. >> ok.
sam davis. >> hello.
>> are you sam davis? Or are you testifying for sam
davis? What is your name?
>> my name is nampa cooper. Hello.
I live in ward 5. I am a youth leader on gun
violence prevention in the district and I represent a
project. I am deeply concerned about the
safety of young people in d.c. Today, I'm going to talk about
issues regarding you safety, safe spaces, and our proposed
solutions. But first, I will tell you a
story about what happens when you safety is not prioritized.
the metro police department does not respond to our calls for
help when we actually need them. One time, a stabbing happened at
the train station. The police did not come and that
person died. Tell me, is that safety?
we believe funding community spaces is a better investment
than over policing young people. D.c.'s current solution to youth
violence is regulating their freedom in d.c..
investment in safe spaces would look like it's of a curfew and
federal agents patrolling, youth would be allowed to be
themselves and nurture their interests.
safe spaces are violence prevention.
we have several things the city council can do to support youth.
most urgently, we want you to create more opportunities for
youth, especially youth in words seven and eight.
want you to fund recreation centers as well as organizations
advocating for youth safety. Make opportunities like the
summer youth employment program continue year-round.
and operate as an afterschool program.
schedule do hearings around youth availability because youth
should be active in the policymaking process.
we invite you to come to our schools, or programs, and our
neighborhoods to meet us. Hear our concerns and policy
ideas. You cannot say you're being
accountable to youth without meeting them first.
>> thank. Jillian buford.
>> good afternoon, chair pinto. My name is jillian buford, and I
am a ward 8 resident and policy organizer at harriet's wildest
dreams, centered on state sanctioned violence in the
greater d.c. Area. I'm testifying today because I'm
greatly concerned about mpds collaboration with law
enforcement agencies. Over the past year, mpds
cooperation with federal agencies has been more intense
and aggressive than ever before. As evidenced by the over 1000
police complaints received in the last year.
this has set a dangerous precedent that must be addressed
immediately. The trumpet ministry's and's
forces have been brutalizing and killing people, including black
folks right here in d.c.. They are following harmful
folders -- orders, leaving families separated.
this issue is important to me because I'm sick and tired of
losing black to state sanctioned violence.
on febrile 11, u.s. Marshals shot and killed 43-year-old
julian -- julian bailey. The federal agents are not
trained in community response in de-escalation.
so, what happened? Where is bodycam footage?
where's the accountability? Twhile I understand the council
has no power over federal agencies, there are several
actions the council can take and should take to enforce basic
safety standards and limit how mpd assists in operations.
I am coming with several demands.
prohibit face coverings for federal officers, require
several agents operating in d.c. To follow the same requirements
for public identification as mpd, require mpd arrest reports
list all officers involved in the arrest, prohibit
mpd from correlating with federal agencies in locations
such as schools, health care facilities, and organizations
providing aid. Repeal local qualified immunity
productions for local officers making arrests under d.c. Law,
as well as any officer who enters a d.c. School, community
center, or house of worship. Require mpd to submit a report
on any interactions they have with a minor, including
conversations on the street. Conduct all independent
investigation of all officer-involved shooting's in
2025 and 2026 and release the names and bodycam footage of all
officers involved. Restrict vehicular pursuits.
close the loophole in the sanctuary values act so it
applies to all d.c. Agencies that contact residents outside
of holding them in custody. Hold a hearing on the safe
community police -- safe community act of 2025.
prohibit mpd from contacting federal agents over personal
possession of cannabis. But also in addition to these
demands, I am urging the council to reject the appointment of
jeffery carroll as a permanent mpd chief.
not only has a cost the city money with lawsuits, he has been
documented standing alongside proud boys on january 6.
is this who you trust to keep us safe?
he has already proven to be a liability.
d.c. Residents are doing our part to keep each other safe
from the militarized police in our communities.
I am here today to demand you do your part.
thank you for your time. >> thank you.
thank you all very much for being here.
>> very quickly, I recommend that this committee send a
letter to u.s. Attorney jeanine pirro and invite her to come
here and testify before this council and the people of the
district of columbia and stop hiding behind social media
posts. >> thank you.
april goggans. Carlo chavarria.
mikki charles. Loreal hawk.
if you would mind sitting in this chair and we will go in
order this way to make sure everyone's testimony is tracked
with their name. That would be great.
april carlo. Mikki charles.
is mikki charles here? Mikki charles not here?
loreal hawk. Arianna mackey.
mackie, thank you. We will begin with april
goggans. >> my name is april goggans and
I represent blm d.c., and I've been a proud ward 8 resident for
almost half my life. This performance oversight
hearing is on mpd, so let's talk about performance.
let's imagine hypothetically that mpd performed exactly
as it was built to and murdering me today.
not a rogue officer, not a tragic mistake, but the logical
outcome -- are you listening? No, I'm just making sure brooke
-- she was a little busy. But the logical outcome of
policy, budget, and political protection.
since 2001, mpd has operated with expanded federal patrol
authorities. Since 2000 six, it expanded cctv
surveillance. Since 2008, shot spotters
blanketed black neighborhoods. Since 2012, escalated
enforcement. Since 2018 project safe
neighborhoods layered coordination.
federal gun strike forces have wreaked havoc on our city.
since 2022, flat cameras and expanded license plate readers.
since 2024, a real-time crime integrating surveillance and
federal databases. Through it all, mpd's budget has
grown every year, every request, every expansion approved.
even when the violence grew, that is mpds performance.
now imagine the confrontation shaped by that performance.
if mpd did what it was designed to do and what councilmember
pinto fights for, the officer who killed me would be deemed
justified. He would have followed policy,
placed on paid administrative leave.
the maga fanatic police chair would defend him.
the mayor would defend mpd. The council would say they are
waiting for investigation, but say nothing to my parents or my
daughter. And mpd would investigate mpd
because that is the pattern. If there were a vigil for me,
some of the same councilmembers who voted to expand mpd's power
would get on the mic and cry. They would mourn me publicly
while continuing to fund the system that made my death
possible. They would call for calm and
pass another enforcement bill because the point is not safety.
the point is about preservation of the institution.
mpd's culture would activate. The character assassination
would begin. She was anti-police, radical,
unstable. They would dissect my life like
evidence. They would say I was a single
mother, as if that makes me disposable.
they would say I survived abuse as a surviving -- as if
surviving abuse makes me violent.
they would weaponize my humanity.
they would turn my resilience into suspicion, my survival into
pathology, my truth into justification for my death, not
to understand me but to make what happened to me feel
reasonable. Not to key minima -- not to
humanize me but to make me suspicious, to imply I was
responsible. That is not reform or failure,
that is designed. White's a promise he does not
require open slurs. It requires expanding budgets
regardless of harm. Once the smoke clears, it is
back to secure d.c., back to expanded detention.
>> thank you. >> carlo chavarria, public
witness. >> thank you, chairwoman pinto,
and members of the committee. My name is carlo chavarria, and
I am a resident of ward 4. I am a longtime organizer who
has been active in various community roles in the last year
and over the last nine years alone.
I am here to testify on the impact of mpd's cooperation with
federal law enforcement, how it is echoing america's history of
race coded fascism. Over the last six months, the
safe and beautiful task force has been occupying force in this
city. They abuse their authority to
terrorize in at least five cases kill d.c. Residents, and
in response to congresswoman crawford's point from earlier,
their presence has been a deterrent to d.c. Safety, not an
enforcement. Living in petworth, I have seen
the neighborhood become a staging ground for mass
profiling of black and brown people.
the intersections of georgia avenue were once safe spaces for
the unhoused. Now they can't safely receive
community or city wide support. Apartment buildings are
regularly targeted in raids and other federal sweeps with
mpd officers actively on-site. Sometimes they will say they are
responding to a call. Other times they won't respond
at all. Just working within the
anonymity of the federal government.
I have seen everyone from hospitality workers to
ride-share drivers to my own neighbors watch out for the
black man's with out-of-state plates regularly sticking out
intersections, waiting for people to make the
wrong turn. Yet marielle bowser and
leadership supports their presence, claiming the streets
are safer because they are a deterrent to violent crime.
but that logic -- by that logic, all residents are potential
criminals, another scapegoat for the success of these fascists.
for all the limitations on d.c. Self-governance, there are
several actionable steps you and dc council can and should take
to enforce basic safety. They will be submitted on the
record as many have already spoken on these 11 points.
I would like to highlight the ones that enforce the will of
the people and the laws that you will have passed, specifically
points eight through 11. Restricting vehicular pursuits
for all federal agencies, closing the loophole in the
sanctuary values act, holding hearings on the safe community
places and policing amendment act of 2020 five, and
prohibiting mpd from contacting federal agents over personal
possession of cannabis. Lastly, as we discuss how white
supremacy is shaping law enforcement, I call on you to
oppose the appointment of jeffery carroll as permanent mpd
chief. Not only has he enabled
harassment of female officers, he is a known sympathizer to
white supremacists with documented accounts of him
collaborating with the proud boys and other hate groups.
I know we all care about d.c. Sovereignty and safety.
I ask you to act on it as you have claimed.
thank you very much. End the occupation.
>> thank you. Loreal hawk, civil rights
attorney, erase the database d.c.
>> my name is loreal hawk and I am testifying as a ward 3
resident, civil rights attorney, and founder of the erase the
database d.c. Coalition. We were founded in 2021 and the
mission is to abolish racist surveillance technologies and
the racist surveillance state. We do this by advocacy and
organizing to abolish discriminatory policies and
technologies used to perfect rice's outcomes.
we also build community power and demand transformative
systems of care instead of useless experimental and
expensive surveillance technologies.
from cctv, red light camera come out to the usage of
celebrite entanglements, it is important
to know that they did not disclose any of the technologies
I just listed. All of this tech converges into
specific policies, like the database created in, or the
real-time crime center that went live in 2024.
when mpd wants to compile info on someone, they use devices to
track movements. When they make a search or
arrest based on vague assumption of gang affiliation, they may
use celebrite to search a person's phone within minutes.
if they decide to monitor a resident to the real-time crime
center or the d.c. Gang database, every public or
private camera in the city may be for use by mpd to track their
movements. Collectively, mpd is empowered
to know everything about a person with or without a
warrant. They use this information to
surveilled, harassed, and create pretext for arrest, like
labeling someone a gang member by seeing them attract with
their gang members. In essence, walking while black
or brown became automated. Mpd is willing to spend millions
on this type of technology. In fact, mpd wants to spend an
additional $5 million alone on additional cameras.
how taxpayer dollars should not be spent on the list technology.
our dollars should not be spent on experiments all an extensive
technologies that share obscene amounts of info with law
enforcement. Mpd already regularly share
information with more than 30 federal agencies before the
occupation. Since the occupation began,
there has been an increase in 24 arrests per day, as told and
observed by d.c. Court watch. Of those arrested, 86% were
black, which is more than double the opposition of black d.c.
residents. Council has worked to create
responses like the crisis response team, crt, and champs,
but these services are not enough.
less than 1% of 911 calls are divided -- diverted.
in some spending money on flock, cellebrite, or other
technologies, we should be focusing on implement e-models
like on point and scaling up crt and champs.
on point provides free mental health services, drug treatment,
meals, laundry services, and other services to meet
residents' needs. They were able to intervene in
over 700 overdoses. This is the type of service we
should invest in to protect our citizens, not extensive machine
learning that can develop a complete dossier of residents
within seconds. Thank you.
>> thank you. Arianna mackey, erase the gang
database d.c. >> chairperson pinto and members
of the judiciary, I have been here before representing a
client whose son was murdered by mpd without accountability.
my name is arianna mackey and I live in ward 6.
today, I am testifying as a georgetown law student and
represented up a the database d.c.
-- erase the database d.c. I am worried about the harm and
abuse enacted by the metro police department's continued
cooperation with federal law enforcement agencies and the
reliance on the gang database. I am urging the council to
prohibit federal law enforcement from working with mpd on
covering their faces and force them to adhere to existing laws
and public identification. To require that all officers
from all agencies on the scene of an mpd arrest be listed by
name and badge number and arrest reports.
to prohibit mpd from coordinating with federal agents
in sensitive locations like schools, health care facilities,
and organizations providing aid, and to prohibit mpd and other
local and federal law enforcement agencies from using
d.c.'s vague and discriminatory gang database good as my
colleague mentioned, mpd maintains a gang database of
individuals with ties that mpd has considered gang ties.
mpd can add anyone to it. If they observe an individual
associating with assumed gang members.
mpd can conclude a person is a gang member based on tattoos,
clothing, the public housing they live in, or
affiliations. Mpd is collecting personal
information from a large number of people who are likely not
gang members. Less than half of d.c.'s
population is black, but 80% of the people in the database are
listed as black. Only one individual is listed in
the database as white as of 20. This omits white
supremacist groups and others. 90 percent are named after
street corners and public housing complex.
this is used to justify aggressive policing in our
community. Mpd does not even a form --
inform people they are in the database, nor of a have a
process to appeal ones included in it.
the best I can tell the council, again, be passed legislation,
dismantling the database, and prohibiting government
surveillance strictly on personal association or
protected classes in accordance with the d.c. Human rights act.
as a resident of ward 6, I walk outside every day and see
my neighbors struggling in the freezing weather.
their needs remain unmet at the presence of law enforcement
increases and fails to help the community.
council members, will you take a stand for the residents of the
district? I hope so.
thank you. Chair pinto: thank you.
thank you all for your testimony.
we will be asking interim chief to carol -- interim chief caroll
about these databases. Thank you.
oliver merino, merawi gerima, and, ms. Gerima, if you can sit
on this seat, we will go in this order.
james stroud, chad oliver. Great.
we will begin with oliver merino, public witness.
all of thank you. Good morning.
my name is oliver. I'm here with the coalition,
thank you for being here, everyone.
this is, of course, not the first time that we are here.
for months, we have called on the dc council to hold the
metropolitan police department accountable, to convene a
dedicated hearing about this voluntary collaboration with
federal officers, to demand that our local laws are respected and
upheld, and yet nothing meaningful has been done.
the mpd voluntary collaboration with I.c.e., cbp, u.s. Marshal,
park police, dea, fbi have violated people's civil rights,
have further criminalized our community, have led to racial
profiling, and these federal agents have even shot and killed
our community members. All of this collaboration has
happened and has happened willingly, openly, and without
any type of accountability. This is not about safety.
this is about placating a xenophobic federal
administration. Enough is enough.
we are demanding the end of this collaboration once again fit our
taxes should not be going to continue this collaboration.
invest in community, not federal collaboration that tears
families apart and puts our communities at risk.
no more money to abduct our immigrant neighbors, no more
money to protect federal agents that shoot first and ask
questions later. No more money for coverups.
the council has oversight over mpd.
there must be accountability of the harm that has already been
committed. There must be certainty about
how this collaboration has worked and continues to happen,
and there must be action from the council.
it's not enough to ask questions.
you have to lead, you have to take action.
besides the council's budget oversight power, you can
introduce and pass emergency legislation that specifically
prevents mpd from collaborating with immigration enforcement and
assisting federal agents that terrorize our community.
how are you preparing to protect our immigrant neighbors?
what are you doing now to prevent more harm in the future?
we need emergency organization. We needed it six months ago.
it's not too late to do the right thing.
thank you. [applause]
chair pinto: thank you. Dt alliance against some --
merawi gerima, organizer of d.c. Alliance against racist and
political repression. >> thank you.
we heard about how her husband was murdered by u.s. Marshals,
and you sat there and told her you would get to the bottom of
it, which is quite upsetting to me, because philip brown was
shot at by homeland security officers back in october.
since then, we've been coming ?o every hearing possible to raise
the case of brown and justin, who was also shot at by homeland
security officers. And since then, no legislation
have been introduced by you to limit the activity of these
federal agents, and we say that had you acted with haste back
then, we believe that julian baily's beads life may have been
spared by the racist officers and agents who are running
through our city, unchecked by the city council and the mayor.
that is the first thing. When you say get to the bottom
of it, you know, I'm not sure exactly what that even means,
because you seem up to this point to the lonely been willing
or able to send questionnaires to mpd, just so they can throw
them back in your face, unanswered.
we want justice. We are not saying we want only
the information on who did it. We do.
we want justice, you know, and here at the d.c. Alliance, all
of us, phillip brown's murder, for bailey's murder as well, we
want them charge, we want them locked up.
killer cops should be locked up. They cannot come into our city
and break d.c. Laws. They are not above the law.
I was in chicago when they passed I.c.e. On notice and the
executive order, mandating cbd investigate federal agents that
break chicago law. We want to make d.c. A place
where these racist agents are afraid to break our laws.
that's what we want. And we are not afraid of
retaliation by trump. He's already attacking us, you
know. This was fought for and won by
the movement and will be defended by exactly the same
thing. It won't be you and whoever else
will do it. That's what here in the d.c.
alliance, we fight and will build a movement to get through
the police here in washington, d.c., because we see day after
day elected officials who will not raise a finger to defend the
people of this city, and we want that democratic option.
take that power to the city council in the mayor and put it
in the hands of the people to give them a way to hold these
cops accountable when they kill our people.
thank you. [applause]
chair pinto: thank you. James stroud, public witness.
james: I'm james stroud, and I've been a resident for almost
four years, and I've lived in the d.c. Area for over eight
years. I'm a statistician at fema.
I previously worked at the johns hopkins university, and hold
degrees in statistics from john hopkins university.
starting in 2018, mpd has released their police stop data,
a record of each individual stop.
this data is a very basic form of accountability and
transparency for mpd, which is especially important now when we
seen a huge shift in how mpd offerings with his cooperation
-- operates with I.c.e. And others.
mpd has not released any stop data from 2025, which is a
violation of the act which requires biannual publication of
this data. It is impossible to capture the
full impact of mpd's cooperation with I.c.e. And other entities
without this crucial data. Before I dig into the 2024 data,
I want to point out that the's population is about 2% black and
38% white. In 2024 -- 42% black and 38%
white. In 2024, 9% of the stops were
white people. So two populations are about the
same size, yet one is stopped by the police over eight times more
than the other. Let's look at stops where there
no arrests, no ticket, or no warning given.
the clearest cases of a person doing absolutely nothing wrong
for black people, bees are one in four stops.
for white people, that number is one in eight.
they do wrong much less often but are stopped over eight times
as often? This is a clear case of
discrimination. The aclu of d.c. Has public
reports of similar numbers for 2019, 2020, and 2023.
these stops are not just a minor inconvenience.
they result in harm. Black people are
disproportionately the victims of police use of force and
police killings and they erode the public's trust in the
police. They ensure that people don't
trust the police, are less likely to report a crime and
they themselves are the victims. I want to finish by telling a
story about new york city. Between 2004 and 2012, 80% of
the police stops where the black and latino people who only made
up half of their population. Sound familiar?
in 2013, a judge ruled that nypd's stop and frisk policy is
unconstitutional. The ruling resulted in a huge
decrease in the number of police stops, from hundreds of
thousands of stops year to 12,000 a year.
with that change, crime only decrease from previous
years. In 2024, mpd stopped over 73,000
people. Meanwhile, nypd only stopped
25,000 people. Why are the police in a city of
700 pounds and stopping more people than a city of over 8
million? Mpd needs to publish its 2025
stop data immediately. If this is too cumbersome to do
in a timely manner, maybe they should not be stopping three
times more people than nypd does.
[applause] chair pinto: thank you, mr.
stroud. Chad oliver, public witness.
chad: good afternoon, chairman. My name is chad oliver, and I
live in ward 4. I'm here today as an organizer
with dsa and the families not fed coalition.
before interim chief of police carroll comes up and begins to
distort the truth, I would like to provide you with your reality
of what is going on in this city from the perspective of a person
who lives in one of the communities being terrorized by
federal agents and the mpd. On an evening sometime close to
the -- close to christmas, I received an alert that federal
agents and mpd were harassing a neighbor not far from my home.
when I arrived at the same, I met five federal agents forming
a perimeter around several mpd officers who were harassing
unhoused woman for having an open container.
this woman was ultimately detained.
this was not an isolated incident.
many of us in the community have experience freezing days and
nights, and an uptick in unhoused neighbors being
harassed by federal agents and retained for -- attained for
minor offenses. These individuals are vulnerable
to this cruel treatment. Mpd will tell you this is simply
about reducing crime in the city and making america safe again,
but those of us that are watching the streets every day
know that this is a lie. It is simply about meeting
quotas. When the federal agents can't
target our immigrant neighbors, they prey on whoever is
available when they are most vulnerable.
it is about desensitizing masses and armed federal forces in
those cities. As the community defense
organizer in this moment, I am asked, why aren't we doing what
minneapolis is doing? Why aren't our leaders acting
like those in chicago or los angeles?
I must constantly remind them that this is d.c..
the conditions are very different here.
we are not a state. But now I'm asking myself, why
do I feel the need to explain our leaders' failures away.
why am I perpetrating the lie that there is nothing that we in
the city can do? Those other cities, they chose
to fight, and so must we. We cannot afford to sit around
doing nothing hoping our love can change them and we cannot
wait for the midterms and hope that a potential sympathetic
congress will protect us. We must fight, we must resist,
and we must create a d.c. For all d.c. Residents.
so I ask you, the leaders of our city, to fight, end all
collaboration between mpd and I.c.e., both I.c.e. And trunk's
federal forces. Fully complied, honor, and
strength the sanctuary values act.
demand transparency and accountability for mpd, and end
the cooperation with trump's task force.
do not allow this white house to use our police force as a tool
of hatred and tyranny. Finally, protect the families of
this district and not be federal agents and mpd gangs that roam
our communities and terrorize our neighbors.
thank you. [applause]
chair pinto: thank you. Thank you all very much.
christina murdoch, clinton james, clinton james, are you
here? Carly schippits, tanya
golash-boza, tanya golash-boza, are you here?
lina s. Alright, christina murdoch,
public witness, go ahead. Christina: my name is christina
murdoch. I'm a member of the d.c.
alliance against racist and political repression.
we fight for community control of the police, so that the
people of d.c. Can say who they are policed by and how.
we were started by a movement to free angela davis from political
oppression in jail. I'm also a proud member of the
families not fed. We fight like hell for the
immigrant community of d.c. It is happening all day long.
there are people out there in the streets getting taken all
day long. And it is unacceptable.
they are members of this community, and they do not
deserve to be treated like second or third class citizens.
they are pole humans, just in case anybody here forgot -- who
le humans with the right to be here.
I want to talk about the mpd. In 2025, there was 100 65
complaints against mpd officers. That's 13% higher than 2004.
in 2025, there were 32 hundred mpd officers.
that means 1/3 of the police force had a complaint filed
against them, or some combination have multiple.
that is unacceptable. 51% of those complaints were
harassment, 20 2% were inappropriate conduct, and 15%
were excessive force. I personally have a complaint to
file for excessive force myself, which I will be adding to that
total. That's right.
there's a lot of people here, and it's not just the ones that
were filed. That number is so much higher
than it sounds. There were millions spent in
2025 that have lawsuits against mpd officers.
632 million was the mpd's budget in 2025.
20% higher than 2024, and almost 1/3 of the entire d.c. Budget.
you've heard the stories today. You are going to hear more.
you already knew the stories. How dare you?
how dare you pass a budget increasing the authority and
capability of a violent, murderous force?
we demand the end to the occupation now.
[applause] we demand that you charge all
the agents involved when mpd officers step aside and let them
go ahead and shoot at or kill somebody.
and we demand community control of the police, a dccouncil where
there is -- a council where there is authority from the
community to say how they are policed and by whom.
when there's a black or brown person sitting up here, brooke,
please don't spend two or three minutes on your phone.
[applause] and say hi to genevieve for me.
clinton: hi, my name is clinton james.
I'm a father and a 20-year resident here in washington,
d.c. I have volunteered my time over
the past year to responding to sides of immigration arrests,
because I believe that nobody should be disappeared from their
communities, and nobody should have to face the violence of
I.c.e. And mpd alone. I'm speaking today as a
first-hand witness to mpd's attacks on the immigrant
community and to demand an end to all federal collaboration
which corrupts this department. In the summer of 2025, mpd
helped I.c.e. Arrest over 1200 block people in just over one
month here in washington, d.c. It was a month of terror.
mpd led operations, setting up traffic stops all over the city,
demonstrating to I.c.e. And other federal agents exactly how
and where to detain the most immigrant people at one time.
so many of these stops both in person and in footage collected
by other community members. The trauma was relentless.
every day, fathers being ripped from their cars, men pinned to
the ground, screaming for help. Women and children crying,
begging for mercy. The police siren became the
trumpets sound of incoming racial terror.
at one such traffic stop, a checkpoint, I personally was
threatened by an mpd officer. Filming from the sidewalk, I
walked by, and a rating camera as I walked.
mpd, working with I.c.e., an mpd officer turned to me and said,
you've got a mask on and you are outside all by yourself.
those words, "by yourself" were chilling.
I stopped and turned to the officer, "is that a threat, sir?
are you threatening me?" I was confused.
"yeah," he replied, "you are threatening me, telling me I'm
working with I.c.e." he said. The officer took out a cell
phone and took a picture of me. Others from other agencies
cheered, "take a picture of him! You are recording him, report
him!" what a bunch of fucking idiots.
this collaboration is lawless. They shoot, they murder without
fear, because they know that there is no oversight.
[applause] chair pinto: tanya golash-boza,
public witness. Carly: good afternoon.
my name is carly schippits, and I'm here to discuss public
safety and traffic laws. These days, pedestrians are
terrified to walk outside. We find we constantly need to
look over our shoulders because so many bike and scooter riders
flout d.c. Laws. Let's look at some statistics to
average walking speed is three miles an hour.
light can easily reach 15 miles an hour, and bikes -- e bikes
and e scooters can reach more miles per hour.
walkways are designed to keep pedestrians safe.
indeed in d.c., it is illegal to ride a bike or a scooter on the
sidewalk in the central business district.
it is also illegal for bikes and scooters to ride their bikes.
nevertheless, every single day I witness bikes and scooters doing
just that. I have personally been the
victim of a bike collision. I was walking in a crisis -- in
a crosswalk when a bike ran a red light and hit me.
other d.c. Pedestrians have not been as lucky and have sustained
broken bones, head injuries, and have even died as a result of
bike and scooter collisions. The presence of bikes and
scooters on sidewalks and crosswalks is especially
dangerous for children and bogs. -- and dogs.
I have a 25 pound beagle mix, and she has had many near misses
by bikes traveling at top speed. Such a collision would be
catastrophic for a dog or a child.
as we all know, children and dogs can go from walking nicely
in a straight line to veering off to the side in a split
second, which is likely not enough time for a passing bike
or scooter rider to react, press the rectum and come to a stop to
studies have found for a bike traveling at 10 miles an hour,
the average stopping distance is a whopping 22 feet.
and a bike traveling at an average walking speed of three
miles an hour has a stopping distance of 60.
likely too much to avoid hitting the wandering.
sadistically, riding on the sidewalk is also less safe for
cyclists. The reason is most car-bike
collisions occur at intersections and driveways, and
a driver is more likely to see a bike traveling on the road than
they are deceived by traveling on the sidewalk.
to sum up, a pedestrian safety zone is no place for a
high-speed metal machine. The d.c. Love requires bikes and
scooters to stop at red lights. When bike and scooter writers
face no penalties for disobeying these laws, it creates a
dangerous situation that leads to pedestrians and rider
injuries. Please make our sidewalks and
crosswalks safe. Please enforce traffic laws.
thank you. Chair pinto: thank you.
linda s. Lina: thank you for allowing me
to testify today for my name is lina, and I'm a member of court
watch d.c. We have arraignments -- we will
witness arraignments idc court several times a week.
I'm here to share on mpd's unaccountable and harmful
collaboration with federal law enforcement.
because of these -- d.c. Leadership capitulation, to this
day, we see mpd traveling and roving convoy with I.c.e. And
portable, setting up traffic checkpoints so they can hang
people over to federal agents, and swarming loan pedestrians in
groups of dozens of officers from a grab bag of agencies.
before the federal surgical idc was already the most heavily
policed city in america, with the vast majority of this
policing follows -- focusing on arresting and jailing black
residents. Mpd collaboration with federal
law enforcement has not only resulted in the kidnappings of
immigrants, it has also supercharge the over policing of
black people, especially black youth, with racial profiling,
constitutional violations, and reckless filings.
we found the number of people of rain per day increased by 59%
after mpd began collaborating with federal agents in august of
2025. On some days, court went past
midnight as over 100 people were arrested.
a staggering 85% of all people arrested were black, even though
black people only make up 40% of d.c.'s population.
this surge in arrest is not about safety.
violent crime in d.c. Was already at a historic low before
the federal surge. Through court watch, we found
the largest increase in arrests per day was for drug related
offenses, which fully doubled in the weeks after federal
collaboration began. These are looked nonviolent
charges, including the possession of marijuana, which
is decriminalized under d.c. Log aw.
this is a collaboration at the behest of a racist federal
government aided and a bed by mpd.
on top of this, d.c. Residents are slipped up and being handed
over to a chaotic prosecutor's office led by a former fox news
propagandist who spoke with relish about locking up children
in d.c. Under her leadership, court
watch d.c. Has found prosecutors pretrial percent by 70%,
seemingly to lock up as many people as possible by any means
despite judges regularly noticing the witnesses and
violations of constitutional rights.
when mpd cooperates with federal agents to arrest people on
ridiculous charges, this is the hospital system they are
feeding people into. We know that federal agents are
ignoring the law, light point blank about incidents, and hide
their identity. The fact of the matter is they
are not trained local police, they are the enforcers of an
authoritarian federal government.
they care about power, not the law.
they are making mpd part of that mission and enacting violence on
our community. I would ask that the council
meet all of free d.c.'s demands on mpd oversight, especially
closing a loophole in the century values act.
thank you. [applause]
chair pinto: thank you. And thank you all for your
testimony. We are going to call our next
panel. The azar, emily emily
cassometus, bill mefford -- kabbas azhar, emily costa me
this, bill mefford, and the third chair, joey ferguson, are
you here? Welcome to you all.
we will begin with kabbas azhar. >> chairperson pinto and members
of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to testify.
my name is kabbas azhar and I am with the electronic privacy
information center, a nonprofit s to protect privacy.
I am also part of the d.c. Coalition and a ward 1 resident.
do is in a moment of crisis and this crisis makes the income
meant that the city and mpd be transparent and forthcoming when
washingtonians demand it. One small portion I would like
to highlight is a 2016 one-year act and the inability to comply
to statutes. Mpd records data from all stops,
frisks, and searches made by mpd officers.
it requires mpd officers complete the reports practically
, which includes filling up the stop card, incident, and arrest
reports. A stop card includes crucial
information. The reason for the search,
whether the search was consensual, whether the officer
seized anything, whether an arrest was made as a result of
the search, and the charges that followed.
it also includes a portion where officers can write the suspicion
that led to the stop. By mpd officers routinely do not
fill out the stop card. In the audit they did, they
looked at 77 reports and none of the reports had a stop section
that was filled out by an officer.
when mpd was asked about why that was the case, their
response was, "it is neither visible nor accessible to
officers when completing their reports."
it becomes a matter of convenience.
that is not excuse enough for the conch that's constant --
they have had a problem complying with transparency and
I urge the council to investigate why this data is not
being collected. Other issues include releasing
data on time. They are supposed to release it
annually but have rarely done so.
considering the rapid enforcement, it is important
washingtonians get access to this data as soon as possible.
70% of those stopped were black. When it comes to the youth, the
numbers are worse. I'm nearly 9000 youth that were
stopped, 86.2 percent were black.
2025 stands to be much worse. Mpd already has the numbers to
show for it. Mpd released culinary numbers
for the first half of 2025. They talked about the searches
they had done, which included pat downs.
of those 89, 300 625 were black. These numbers from before august
2025 include data. I urge the council to push for
the full data. >> thank you.
>> emily castanedas, public witness.
>> good afternoon. I am the assistant professor of
law at udc law and director of legislation clinic, and I am
also cochair of d.c.'s local government working group.
I have been a d.c. Resident for about 15 years now.
I am here because we still have not seen the progress that we
asked for at the december 4 hearing.
I do appreciate you asking mpd specifically about their
cooperation agreements. Mpd admitted in prehearing
responses there are 11 federal agencies working with them that
are operating through the d.c. Safe and beautiful task force,
which do not have cooperation agreements.
these law enforcement agencies have little to no training on
patrol operations, yet that is what they have been doing since
august 11. They have little to no training
on d.c. Law but that is what they have been using to detain,
arrest, and incarcerate people since august 11.
as a result, two agents shot philip brown in october.
one billet -- bullet hit so close it pierced the color on
his jacket. A third agent shot justin nelson
in november. Officers from the u.s. Marshals
service and the diplomatic security service were also
involved. The shooting took place after a
federal law enforcement initiated a vehicular pursuit, a
tactic prohibited for mpd for good reason.
during the pursuit, a non-mock -- unmarked vehicle crashed into
a bus, endangering many more people.
in january, bystander video shows what appears to be fbi
agents using flashbang grenades during a traffic stop.
I say appears because there has been zero public investigation
into the incident. Officers on the scene called
bystanders "fucking idiots" while they legally filled the
incident and asked officers not to shoot.
in february, the worst case scenario played out when u.s.
marshals shot and killed julian bailey during their response to
a 91 one service call. What do you think federal agents
will do to hurt black and brown people next month?
you cannot prevent the abuse of power by federal law
enforcement, but you can give your constituents the tools to
demand accountability after the fact, and we need you to play
your part. But as far as strategy goes,
isn't poking the bear risky? To quote council member parker
quoting donald trump, do we have the cards?
for a year now, d.c. Has been making itself small in the hope
the federal government will take pity on us or forget about us
all together. If mayor bowser's campaign of
appeasement was ever to pay off, last week's showdown over d.c.'s
new tax law would have been the moment.
last year when congress needlessly evaporated funds from
the budget, trump demanded congress restore the $1.1
billion. This year, the president has the
power to relieve the district's newest budget crisis at a time
when the mayor's team has warned budgeting for the next fiscal
year will be as hard as anything we did during the recession.
but he did not do that. Bowser has meant the knee and
she got nothing in return in this critical moment.
>> I'm sorry, you are over time. >> by signing the resolution,
the president definitively answers the question whether or
not her strategy is an effective one.
it is not. Please take this as a lesson
learned. >> thank you.
bill mefford, executive director director of the festival center.
>> I should just say what she said, but I will add a couple
things. Thank you, chair pinto, for
allowing me to speak. I am with the festival center, a
faith-based community center. We basically provide space in
one way or another for about 50 nonprofits, and we work with
dozens more. We are also a member of the
washington interfaith network. An average of 5000 people per
month walk through our doors, so safety is of paramount
importance to us. Thanks to the collaboration,
this past year has been anything but safe.
we have had to initiate safety protocols and every day we are
on high alert as to the presence of mice and mpd in the area.
it is exhausting. We have had to raise and spend
an additional $20,000 on new safety equipment to protect our
guests and our tenants from mpd and I.c.e.
this is $20,000 I could have gone to support the amazing
nonprofits who are housed in our building and the ways in which
they serve d.c. Residents. The reason we have had to take
all these steps is simple, because our current mayor, this
council, and this committee have failed to keep us safe and hold
mpd accountable. Last year, and a large group
from the festival center met with you to ask for a hearing
dedicated to ending the collaboration between I.c.e. And
mpd. We were refused.
I never understood why. I joined another letter we
delivered to you on the december 4 hearing, joining with 58 faith
leaders, and among other things, one of the things we stated in
the letter was this. "while mpd and federal agencies
deployed precious resources to arrest people for open
containers and slipping in parks, residents lined up for
blocks to access housing support services.
the juxtaposition could not be starker."
d.c. Does not need more force, it needs more care.
therefore, we urge the committee and council to hold a hearing
and move forward councilmember white's act.
we also ask that the chiefs order on I's cooperation be
formally and publicly renounced, and this counsel should insist
that no officer who works with I.c.e. On their regular time
should get paid any overtime. We need you to provide oversight
and accountability. Last year, I remember I was
sitting at this table up on the fifth floor when you listened
very passionately and compassionately to a very small
group of residents in ward 2 who were complaining about loud
noises from those harassing the chinese embassy.
your compassionate listening posture, your passion to work
hard to address their problems is needed now.
my hope is that you have that same passion to listen to and
fight for all d.c. Residents. Thank you.
>> thank you. Joey ferguson, public witness.
>> hello. My name is joey.
I'm a pro d.c. Resident living in ward 7.
I represent a group called d flock d.c.
we are opposed to the use of automatic license plate readers.
this technology puts our tribes a, safety, and civil liberties
in danger, all in the name of profit.
an alpr logs license plate of every car that drives past it.
mpd utilizes 66 ale p.r. -- al p r's by a company notorious for
its surveillance tech. Many are clustered in overly
police neighborhoods, others are eerily close to a number of
schools. Normally, mpd is willing to brag
about its impressive and expensive toys.
yet when it comes to ale p -- when it comes to alpr's, mums
the word. Why are they suddenly so
bashful? Maybe it is because they have
allowed a private company to spy on us and track our movement,
whether we are suspected of a crime or not.
it it is the data gathered is made available and a nationwide
database searchable by over 4800 other law enforcement agencies.
yes, that includes I.c.e.. Yes, that includes hsi.
that includes the rest of the alphabet soup terrorizing our
streets, throwing flashbangs and killing community members like
julian bailey. All that doesn't seem to matter
to mpd, seeing as they want to add an additional $5 million to
new cameras I the.downtown corridor, cameras are also
riddled with vulnerabilities on their very few security
standards for those with access to the database.
this recklessness is a perfect example of what happens when we
trust private companies like flock which places profits over
people. Our safety and privacy are not
commodities to be bought and sold.
the data collected by these cameras would no doubt be shared
with federal agencies with or without flock, either through
the real-time crime center or the fusion center or simply
because they ask. So, the only real way to ensure
this data doesn't end up in the hands of I.c.e. Is to simply not
collect it. Deflock d.c. Calls on mpd to end
its relationship with flock and entities of alpr's, regardless
of who manufactures and maintains them.
we are spending millions on alpr's, shotspotter's, drones
that track movement, servers for the getting database, and a
million dollar a year subscription to celebrate's
mobile forensics platform, which mpd failed to mention in the
questions, by the way. Instead of spending money to spy
on washingtonians, we should instead be investing in them.
let me tell you something, I love this city.
long live gogo and the occupation and free d.c.
>> thank you. Thank you all very much.
john payne. Barbara mccann.
l. English. Carol spring.
ashley james barnett. John payne.
ok come on second. Barbara mccann.
carol spring, are you here? Ashley james barnett.
raj adel. Sandra moscoso.
robyn swirling. Alright, we will begin with john
payne, public witness. >> good afternoon.
my name is john payne. I am a born and raised
washingtonian and I currently live in ward 4.
I'm here to testify today about the abuses and harassment mpd
has inflicted on the city for the past year, especially
against our black, and house, and immigrant communities.
I am also here to demand that the dc council end
cooperation with the federal task force, close loopholes that
allow agencies to work with I.c.e., and that you do not make
jeff carroll the new mpd commissioner.
I want to start by providing several examples of the abuses I
personally witnessed over the past year.
this fall while my wife and I were walking through a
neighborhood, we watched a combination of mpd and fbi pull
over woman for problems of a temporary tag on her car.
the woman answered every question calmly and clearly but
they still felt the need to arrest her and fbi agents
surrounded her while carrying large weapons.
why did they need to handcuff a woman for the problem of a
temporary tag? And why was fbi involved at all
with the issue of a routine traffic stop?
another night when I was walking home for my church, I saw a
combination of mpd, dhs, and part police strip the license
plates off somebody's car in a routine traffic stop.
several blocks from my home, mpd, hsi were so busy
standing around after the arrest of an elderly man that they
refused to let his wife give him a seizure medication.
but they would not let him get this life helping medication.
how is this making any of us safer?
then just a few weeks ago, mpd without any help from any of the
federal agencies chased down a man on my block.
what was his crime? He didn't want to speak to them
because he was afraid they were going to hurt him.
they grabbed him, threw him up in the air and smashed him on
the asphalt. Why?
because he was afraid they were going to hurt him, and he was
right. I don't think it is a surprise
to anyone in this room to learn that all the individuals I have
been talking about were black residents of d.c..
even when mpd isn't present, they are to blame for the
violence committed by the federal task force in d.c.
mpd shows them where to go, shares radio frequencies, and
passes wrong information. Because of this, mpd must be
held accountable for the harm that the task force inflicts on
this city. And so must this council.
we have been begging you to end these abuses.
we are tired of hearing you can't do anything to oversee
federal agents or that you have sent a letter.
the harassments, abductions, and murder of our neighbor julian
bailey are due to your inaction, your collaboration, and
especially you, chair pinto. His blood is on your hands.
if you won't defend this city, you should resign and get out of
the way. We are asking you today to do
your goddamn job. We have seen over the past eight
months is not an aberration. The sub in the hallmarks of mpd
behavior just out in the open. But we are asking you to have
mpd held accountable for these actions.
end all cooperation with the task force.
not with some lot to come later, but end them now.
close the loopholes in the sanctuary values act, and do not
appoint jeff carol as mpd commissioner.
>> barbara mccann, public witness.
I am going to ask you all -- I know you want to applaud and
that's ok, but we have a lot of witnesses.
as I have said, we want to make sure we hear from everybody, and
so we can talk to the police chief today.
let's please stay on track. Go ahead.
>> my name is barbara mccann and I have lived in ward 1 for 28
years. I am testifying today because I
am deeply concerned about what I have witnessed as mpd cooperates
with arms, unidentified men wearing tactical military gear
on our streets. This is dangerous.
I am not using the term "federal agents," as in many cases these
aggressive men or their cars have been identified.
no badges, no license plates, and sometimes they wear masks to
shield their identities as criminals often do.
calling these people federal law enforcement is also problematic,
as courts across the country have ruled that their behavior
is outside the law. Yet here in d.c., I have seen
mpd officers assisting them. Why?
I did not witness any of the events that have previously been
mentioned at this hearing, which I have been out all day, but
since august 2025 I have witnessed ffour arrests.
I have seem an armed masked man in tactical gear get into an mpd
squad car, and I have seen armed men taunt onlookers as passive
mpd officers watched. Aren't they supposed to be
protecting us? Aren't they supposed to be
protecting us? I have described kiewit
incidents I have witnessed. Armed men waiting -- working for
federal agencies have overrun d.c.'s own law enforcement,
especially in recent months. Multiple times we have heard
about this. They have shot d.c. Residents.
on february 12, they killed julian bailey.
I attended the vigil. And now we have all witnessed
the grief of his family. While I personally am not a
target of federal force, the lawlessness of these people
means that could change at any moment.
I now feel fear and distrust when I see mpd squad cars and I
avoid calling the police for anything, especially since I
know it will likely endanger my neighbors.
the dc council can and should take action to enforce basic
safety steps and to limit how mpd assists the federal
operations. I am asking you to support
emergency legislation to identify all federal enforcement
agents present at an mpd address to facilitate independent
investigations of all officer-involved shooting's.
I know there is full accountability and arrest
reporting emergency amendment act of 2026 for your
consideration. We need to prohibit mpd from
court knitting with federal agents in sensitive locations
like schools, health care facilities, and organizations
providing aid. And we need a hearing on the
policing amendment act. We need to restrict vehicle
pursuits on d.c. Streets. Such a chase resulted in the
death of a bystander. >> thank you.
thank you very much. >> we want a d.c. That will be
safe for all visitors and we need you to take action.
>> thank you. Sandra moscoso, public witness.
>> good morning, chairperson pinto, and members of the
council. My name is sandra moscoso.
I'm a member of the d.c. Open government commission and a
proud community member who has worked closely with the
metropolitan police department for years.
from community safety walks to building real relationships with
officers who patrol our neighborhoods, I am here today
not as an adversary of mpd but a partner who believes the
transparency is the very foundation of the trust we have
worked hard to build. I have seen firsthand what a
collaborative relationship between residents and officers
looks like. It takes time, consistency, and
good faith on both sides. And I know that trust once lost
is incredibly difficult to rebuild.
that is why I am concerned about the transparency gaps that the
d.c. Open government coalition has documented and why I urge
this council to act. First, on arrest information,
mpd is required by statute to make arrest logs public.
federal agencies operating in the district are required to
report their arrests for inclusion in those logs.
this is particularly important at a time when our crime and
arrest statistics are being politicized.
I asked the council to build the public's trust and require mpd
to publish all statutory arrest information daily on its website
or at a single accessible location such as mpd
headquarters. Second, the comprehensive
policing and justice reform amendment act of 2022 made
important promises to d.c. Residence.
promises this counsel passed into law.
that legislation mandated expanded public access to body
worn camera footage of officers involved in shootings and use of
force incidents. But mpd has used foia, privacy
exemptions beyond what the law requires to delay and obstruct
access. I asked the council to fund the
body worn camera provisions of the police reform act so the law
means something. Third, the same law provided --
prohibited mpd from using foia exemptions to hide officer
disciplinary records. A practice that for too long has
kept the public in the dark about misconduct.
mpd continues to invoke an exemption that is no longer
legally valid. I ask the council to fund the
transparency provision in the fy 2020 seven budget so that
residents have the information they need and mpd is accountable
to the community it serves. Fourth, the police reform act
required the office of police complaints to create a
searchable database of sustained disciplinary complaints against
officers. That database does not exist
because the mayor has not funded it.
please fund it in this budget. Finally, I support the full
accountability act. Please do so as well.
thank you. >> thank you robyn swirling,
public witness. >> thank you.
I live in ward 4. I am a lifelong d.c. Area
resident. On the first night of the
so-called emergency, I stepped outside to walk my dog and found
more than two dozen federal agents raiding my neighbors
house across the street. Mpd officers stood on the
sidewalk supporting fbi come park police, I.c.e., and metro
transit for some reason. Since the emergency ended, here
is some of what I have personally seen.
hsi and I.c.e. Agents writing in the back of mpd cruisers, mpd
leading caravans of federal cars, federal agents staging out
of mpd stations. From my front porch, I witnessed
a cop pull over a car, then signal to fbi agents in the
three trailing vehicles to approach the driver.
fbi agents questioned them, then walked back to the mpd officer
who was sitting in his car to tell him what ticket to write.
a couple weeks ago on kennedy street by my house, a routine
traffic stop for a taillight something or other lead to 14
fbi, dea agents questioning the driver while mpd stood by.
these are our neighbors and your constituents.
the people doing this to them are not accountable to this
city. They do not live in this city.
and in many cases are not even willing to show their faces in
this city. I have seen mpd working
alongside feds in vehicles with no license plates.
mpd officers have been imitating their fun new friends wearing
masks and taunting observers. Mpd and fats like are behaving
like people who know they will face no consequences.
and so far, they have been right.
and that starts at the top. Under jeffrey carroll's
leadership, mpd provides feds with cars to ride in and traffic
stops to conduct under federal direction.
under his leadership, mpd refuses to provide this counsel
with any data on how many federal agents are operating
alongside mpd, how many arrests have been made, how many stops.
he has not been transparent with you and is insulting all of our
intelligence bike claiming mpd is not collaborating.
jeffery carroll must not be confirmed as the chief of this
department. While so much local and national
attention has been directed at I.c.e., I want to be very clear
this is not only an immigration issue.
the dea, atf, fbi, and u.s. Marshals are terrorizing black
communities in this city, especially in words seven and
eight, particularly black men and boys.
we have a long-standing problem with harassment of these
communities come on now intensified by bringing a dozen
federal officers along for what used to be two or three local
cops. Their presence increases danger
to residents who have been asking for decades for real
solutions to their safety concerns.
more police has never met more safety and adding an even more
unconstrained federal forces with no accountability to our
city is not making anyone here more safe.
based on the most recent available data, only 17% of mpd
officers live in d.c. These federal agents don't if
you're at all. They are empowered by this
administration to be in our neighborhoods and are emboldened
by the cooperation and invitation of this mayor and her
police leadership. I ask you support the emergency
legislation requiring identification of all federal
agents present at mpd arrest, demand a hearing is scheduled on
the safe community places and policing amendment act before
the end of march, and publicly commit that you will not vote to
confirm jeffery carroll. We cannot force the feds to
change where they focus their enforcement, but we can require
that mpd is not part of it. >> thank you very much.
thank you for all your testimony.
thank you all. We are going to call our next
panel. Jeff hall.
paige dennis. Salvador sauceda-guzman.
robin lipp. Jeff hall?
is jeff hall here? Ok.
commissioner, you can come here. His paige dennis here?
-- is paige dennis here? Robin lipp.
michael cohen. Commissioner cohen.
sigute meilus. Elizabeth falcon.
thai hub and powell. -- ty hobson powell.
sandra benavente. We will begin with salvador
sauceda-guzman. Are you testifying in your
capacity as a commissioner or as public witness?
go ahead, commissioner. >> thank you.
good afternoon, everyone. I am here not to speak as a
latino resident of the city to talk about I.c.e..
a lot of our brothers and sisters are doing that for us.
or as a d.c. Resident to talk about the federal occupation.
again, a lot of our brothers and sisters are talking about that
today. I am here to talk as an agency
commissioner. Not to review.
it is more to talk about mpd and its6 c13
it is in our city. I am an anc commissioner for the
south side of ward five. We share a lot of the same
issues and problems that were entrenched in alongside our
brothers and sisters east of the river and ward 7 and ward eight.
and I engaged daily with residents impacted by violence,
housing instability and crisis. And through all this chaos, I
still believe in public safety. And I do believe, even given the
institution might have some problems, that there are good
officers within the metropolitan police department who care about
this city. But I'm deeply concerned about
the operational leadership with mpd.
over the past year, I've asked 37 officers on patrol.
one simple question do you know who your watch commander is?
and out of those 37, only two were able to give me a name.
and that, to me, has always been something very concerning.
two and a half. Because one walking and figured
it out. But still, it's still a
concerning number for me as an anc commissioner and a resident,
that that is based on who's at the helm, who's managing, who's
leading. This isn't a funding issue, it's
a management issue. If officers on the street do not
know who is leading their watch, how can we expect cohesion,
discipline or accountability? Leadership can only appear at
can not only appear at town halls or public meetings.
leadership must be visibly present at command, actively
supervising, reinforcing policy and ensuring standards are
upheld in real time. I anticipate mpd may respond
with the that structures exist, that we're doing our jobs, that
officers are being briefed and that chains of command are
clear. But if that clarity is not
reflected in the field, then the system is not functioning
effectively. You may also hear that
misconduct is about a bad. A few bad actors, individual
accountability matters, but weak supervision creates environments
where misconduct grows and strong officers become
demoralized or leave. And let me be clear about
something else. In this city.
we may not control how federal officers operate.
we have seen instances where federal federal actors violate
rights and face limited accountability.
we know that we heard a lot about that today.
but mpd is our department. We can control that.
we have a stake in that. We have a say in that we have
power in that. If the answers to this council
of the district of the residents cannot follow these rules, that
the policies that mpd needs to follow by, we need more real
oversight with mpd. Thank you.
thank you. Commissioner.
robin lippe, public witness. Good afternoon, chair pinto.
thank you for hosting today's hearing.
my name is robin lippe. I'm testifying as a ward one
resident and the parent of a d.c. Native toddler.
I testified at your hearing on public safety in december and at
councilmember nadeau's roundtable on potential human
rights violations by mpd in october, following the december
4th hearing, your office led a letter to mpd signed by the full
council that requested basic data on mpd activities.
two days ago, mpd submitted responses that show why this
council needs to stand firm in getting real answers and real
solutions for the people of d.c. Mpd responses are a mess of
excuses to avoid stating the obvious plainly, mpd
collaborates with ice and other federal immigration enforcement
agencies, threatening safety for all of us.
buried on pages 66 to 74 of their 244 page response.
here's my summary of what they say.
mpd has a formal mou to collaborate with a branch of
ice, and they regularly work together whenever the us
attorney's office claims an offense involves human
trafficking, which could be a lot beyond the scope of that
mou, mpd also collaborates with hpsci and with ice on joint
patrols during the so-called emergency and afterwards.
this paragraph 122, during joint patrols with mpd federal
agencies are conducting immigration enforcement.
former chief smith's executive order 25 005 allows mpd to share
information and provide transportation to help federal
agencies conduct immigration enforcement on their joint
patrols. Yet, mpd refuses to provide
information about the number of federal agents from each agency
who are participating in their joint patrols.
mpd either refuses to provide or claims that it cannot provide
any data on arrests by federal agents, even when mpd is
present, and mpd takes no responsibility for sharing
information about federal officers with the public, like
their names and badge numbers, even when they patrol together,
these shameful admissions are consistent with what I have seen
in my own neighborhood in ward 1.
I have seen joint mpd, cbp detentions in front of schools
during school hours. On the block where I live, I
have seen a federal mpd raid on an apartment building with ice
present in my neighborhood. While walking my daughter to
daycare, I have seen federal agents and mpd swarm a public
park used by my daughter's daycare.
I have seen masked ice agents jump out of unmarked cars and
kidnap latino workers off the street, in an area that mpd
patrols extensively. And I hear stories every day
from my neighbors seeing the same things.
I worry that my daughters, teachers, or caregivers will be
disappeared with mpd's help. I worry that children in d.c.
are witnessing and experiencing violence and harassment from
police, and learning that they cannot trust the police to help
them. I join in dc's demands and I
call on the council to immediately take basic steps to
protect children from violence by ensuring that mpd is
accountable. As further detailed in my
written testimony, for now, I urge you to support the full
accountability and arrest reporting emergency amendment
act of 2026. Thank you.
thank you. Guys.
I'm going to please ask you all again to help us out.
I know we've got a lot of colleagues, I hope.
I hope a lot of my colleagues are going to come up later this
evening so we can all ask the chief questions.
but as a reminder, if we if we do an applause for every person
who testifies, as much as I know you want to, that will add an
hour or 2 or 3. Okay.
where are we? Here.
tie. Hobson.
powell, public witness. All right.
first, giving honor to god. Happy black history month.
happy black history month. I'm here today to talk about
mpd, but also, I guess, just the larger moral, whether that is
guiding this moment that we're in right now, because policing
is never just a local technical issue.
I think it's a mirror of the moment that you're living
through. Our policing right now is
telling the truth about what we're willing to fund, who we're
willing to fear, and how quickly we accept the idea that some
people have to be controlled in order for others in this city to
feel comfortable. When we talk about violence, we
often talk about it as if it's random.
but it isn't. Not here, not in gaza, not
anywhere. It's connected, like I said, in
the congo and palestine and sudan, there's conflict
entrepreneurs that profit by turning human life into a
revenue stream. And it's that same kind of logic
that lives here. When institutions treat harm as
an acceptable byproduct, when there's budgets that reward
force over care, when the suffering of the vulnerable is
something that we see as administratively inevitable.
that's why I can't talk about mpd without talking about its
connective tissue to entities like idf that operate under
collective punishment. When I see those kind of
collaborations, I don't think about a safer d.c.
I think about a dc that's importing a worldview that says
that security is something that you do to people, and not
something that you build with them.
mpd is collaboration with ice is just further proof of that,
something that's making our neighbors scared to report harm,
people afraid to seek help, people afraid to take their kids
to school or afraid to take them to work.
it normalizes the federal apparatus that acts above the
law and treats due process like it's an inconvenience.
we've seen that time and time again from this president.
if federal officials feel entitled to lawlessness, I think
that mpd owes washingtonians a duty of care to stand in that
gap between the community and unlawful intimidation, not to
grease the wheels for it, and overpolicing and under-resourced
society will always be left clamoring for more.
that's from here. That's from here to gaza.
that's more surveillance. It's more overtime.
it's more weaponry, it's more cages.
but it's never more housing. It's never more clinics.
it's never more food access. It's never more trauma care.
it's never more schools with counselors instead of cops.
we keep trying to purchase safety with punishment, and then
we act surprised when our communities remain unsafe.
now, police and soldiers alike, they move people across borders.
they reshape opportunity. They influence who can be in
what neighborhood, what schools are stabilized, who's public
transit is watched, who's parks are welcoming, who's houses are
protected. That's how racial inequality
works. It's block by block.
it's stop by stop. It's arrest by arrest.
in the last decade alone, we've heard of dozens of police
killings that have pierced our national conscience.
but there are several hundreds more that we didn't even hear
about. And we always fixate on
repairing delegitimising policing through new training,
new tech, more diverse hiring. We need to redo it.
we need to redo this in favor of a just system that prevents harm
before it happens in response to harm, without creating more of
it. It's not naive.
it's the practical thing to do. If we can spend on average, over
$70 million on police time over time annually, we can fully fund
mental health crisis teams, rent stabilization, violence
interruption, youth employment, school based clinicians and
housing that people can afford. What does it say about a
globally interconnected society that we show a deeper commitment
to guns and bombs than we do to food, access and shelter?
thank you. Sandra benavente, advocacy
manager, ayuda. Good afternoon.
my name is sandra benavente, and I'm a youth advocacy manager.
I use as a nonprofit organization that has served
immigrant communities in dc for more than 50 years.
we provide legal, social and language access services to
immigrants and their families, including survivors of domestic
violence, sexual assault, trafficking, and other serious
crimes as they navigate government systems in pursuit of
safety and stability. We are deeply concerned about
the complicity of mpd and the dc government in exposing immigrant
residents to harm at the federal level, relatively quiet but
significant procedural changes are happening in the immigration
system from the firing of immigration judges to the
expansion of third country removals, brick by brick due
process is being dismantled. The federal government is making
it easier to detain and deport people with less oversight and
fewer safeguards. This all based in the racist
belief that black and brown immigrants like me do not belong
here. The district should play no role
in advancing that racist agenda. Yet when mpd collaborates with
federal immigration authorities, they are doing just that.
they are actively collaborating in actions that terrorize
immigrants and separate families, violently target black
and brown neighbors regardless of their immigration status.
spread fear in every member of the community, and compromise
public safety. We want to bring awareness to
mpd's new practice of asking survivors seeking uvsa
certifications for passports or other identification documents
in the context of mpd's collaboration with federal
immigration authorities. These requests create fear and
uncertainty. As a result, many survivors are
reconsidering if coming forward is worth the risk.
mpd has publicly committed to being trauma informed, yet
community trust has been deeply eroded by the collaboration, and
practices like this cause further damage.
what is the purpose of this new practice?
what safeguards are in place to ensure that information shared
by survivors will not be shared with ice and other federal
immigration authorities, and what steps are being taken to
address the harm caused thus far, our questions and concerns
about the collaboration's impact on survivors have been ignored
by mpd. We understand council members
have sent questions of their own, but this committee is
charged with oversight, and that responsibility requires more
than sending a letter and waiting for a response that
never comes. This committee has tools and
authority beyond what community members have, and we urge you to
use them to demand, not just transparency, but accountability
as well. This committee must strengthen
and uphold the sanctuary values amendment.
it must hold mpd accountable to, among other things, end the
collaboration between mpd and federal agents.
this also means reducing barriers for immigrant survivors
by creating clear uvsa certification policies, ensuring
confidentiality of survivor information.
every member of our community deserves to be treated with
dignity, respect and humanity. They deserve clarity and access
to safety and they deserve a local government that does not
place them in further danger, especially when they're seeking
help. Thank you for the opportunity to
testify today. Thank you very much.
thank you all for your testimony.
and if anyone is in the flow over room but has signed up to
testify in person, if you want to come over to room, are we in
120 or 123? We're in 123.
so if you're in the wilson building and have signed up to
testify in person, there are now some seats in here if you want
to come over. So you're ready to go when
you're called. And we're going to call
elizabeth falcon up first and then abby hollinger.
owen schwartz. Miss stet ringler.
great. Thank you.
and we'll begin with elizabeth falcon, public witness.
hello, my name is elizabeth falcon.
I'm the executive director of dc jobs with justice, dc jobs with
justice is a 24 year organization working in
washington, dc, promoting racial and economic justice for
workers, residents and tenants. The current collaboration
between mpd and federal law enforcement reflects an expanded
reign of terror on immigrant and black residents, which is a
continuation of the attacks that local and federal law
enforcement have overpoliced in these communities for decades.
as the executive director at dc jobs with justice, we concern
ourselves with a variety of laws.
many of those laws are the ones that are designed to protect
folks who are vulnerable in their workplaces or in those in
their homes. And in addition to the chilling
effect that we're seeing in terms of our neighbors who are
unwilling to walk around their neighborhoods, take our public
transit, we're also seeing a chilling effect in people's
willingness to ensure that their basic the laws that are there to
protect them are fully enforced. So workers who are less likely
to report a wage violation or, you know, wages that are stolen
by their employer as a result of the the chilling environment
that we're in. Similarly, tenants who are less
willing potentially to come forward because they see that
the the boot of the law is up against them.
and it's not only in this type of legal protections we heard
recently from deputy mayor turnage that 4000 residents who
are currently eligible for the dc healthcare alliance have not
renewed because they are scared, even of institutions that were
once safe havens like mary center, because they're afraid
to be part of our society. And that's not surprising
because there's been a very violent and unaccountable
activities by ice and other federal agencies, and mpd has
been with them at the time when parents are tackled to the
ground in front of other parents, teachers and students,
we have a real breach of trust that the council needs to take
very aggressive steps and restore leadership and
accountability in the management of our public employees.
I join my allies from free d.c. Harriet's wildest dreams, black
lives matter, dc, and the many, many other organizations that
have come here today to ensure that dc uses all of the tools
that we have to ensure that our public employees, our tax
dollars, are only used in the service of our values and that
we enforce our local laws to the greatest extent possible and put
firewalls between federal law enforcement and local
enforcement. And we only bring into
leadership individuals who support our values and assure
accountability for those who do not.
thank you. Thank you.
abby hollinger, immigration staff attorney.
ida, good afternoon. My name is abby hollinger, and
I'm an immigration attorney at ayuda.
my colleague sandra just spoke to some of the most recent
federal efforts to further strip immigrants of their rights,
which are being implemented as we speak in this moment, dc
should be protecting its residents from federal
overreach. Instead, the d.c. Government and
mpd are collaborating with ice to funnel more people into
detention and deportation. I want to talk about what that
means for ayudas clients. It means a woman was recently
the victim of a violent crime, but she's too scared to report
it. The risk of any interaction with
police, even for victims, is higher.
when police are collaborating with ice.
so she decides not to report. It means our clients are
brutally beaten by dhs. They are being taken into
immigration custody. Mpd says that they're here to
protect and serve us. But what about when residents
need protection from law enforcement itself?
it means clients who live in maryland and virginia are
missing appointments with us because they're too scared to
come into the city. They know that this could delay
or irreversibly damage their immigration cases, but the risk
of detention is just too high. In addition to being an
immigration attorney, I'm a d.c. Native, and I'm part of the
rapid response organizing in my neighborhood.
so I also want to tell you what we're seeing on our streets.
we see dhs staging its operations from the park road
mpd station, and then we see caravans of mpd and unmarked
undercover federal vehicles leave the station together,
drive into our neighborhoods together, and detain our
neighbors together. I saw this happen a block away
from my home. A man was pulled over and within
minutes ice had swarmed the scene.
they kept this man waiting for a very long time.
while he waited, he asked us to call his brother and tell him
what was happening. His brother sobbed on the phone.
the police and ice eventually let this man go.
but so much damage had already been done.
the stories you've heard today point to a very simple truth you
all cannot fulfill your duty to protect d.c. Residents while
collaborating with those intent on harming them.
we call on you to end all collaboration, including
rescission of the cop order and dismantling of the task force,
protecting your community takes work.
we all know that because we show up every day.
the question is, when will you? Thank you.
owen schwartz, active at large board member, delta lambda phi
social fraternity, inc. Go chairperson, pinto.
members and staff of the committee.
my name is owen schwartz and I am an undergraduate student at
george washington university and active at large.
member of the board of directors of delta lambda phi social
fraternity. Delta lambda phi was created in
1986 right here in dc, in response to the exclusion of gay
men during the height of the aids epidemic.
our commitment to justice, dignity and chosen family guides
the way we show up, especially now across the country and in
the city. We are seeing a massive increase
in ice and other immigration enforcement using violence,
intimidation and deadly force. Immigrant communities, including
queer, trans, undocumented and mixed status individuals are
experiencing fear and harm. These are our community's safety
is built through care, accountability and community,
not fear, not intimidation and not violence.
as a board of directors, we urge this committee and the council
to restore trust by ending mpd's collaboration with ice and
provide transparency about the work they've conducted with
federal immigration agencies. The executive order, signed by
former police chief pamela smith on august 14th, 2025, allows mpd
officers to share information about persons not in the custody
of mpd, including those stopped at a traffic stop with federal
immigration enforcement agencies, as well as provide
transportation for their agents and detained suspects.
after this order went into effect, mpd has failed to
provide clarity about joint patrols between mpd and federal
agents, which have the authority to conduct civil immigration,
law enforcement. One such patrol in october of
2025 raises concerns about mpd's transparency about its work with
federal agents. Philip brown was stopped by
patrol, consisting of mpd officers and agents from five
federal agencies. Federal agents stepped in front
of his car and fired two shots into it.
actions like this further erode public trust and local law
enforcement, with citizens and non-citizens, many from
predominantly black and brown communities, fearing for their
lives every time they leave the house, especially when mpd then
failed to report that an unarmed black man was shot at by federal
agents. During that stop, mpd is
actively eroding public trust as it continues to collaborate with
ice and other federal agencies. Communities are paralyzed with
fear that they will be arrested, injured or killed by federal
agents, regardless of their immigration or citizenship
status. We can no longer accept business
as usual as this administration continues to undermine district
law and racially profile its communities.
we urge this committee and the council to vote on legislation
banning mpd's collaboration with ice and federal agents, provide
full transparency about the extent to which mpd has
collaborated with ice and federal agents.
speak out against isis brutality and speak up for the rights of
d.c. Residents, provide full accountability for federal
agents who break dc's laws and provide transparency about
whether agents involved in the murders of alex.
pretty good are now or have worked in dc.
thank you. Thank you very much.
mr. Ringler public witness.
hello, my name is mr. Ringler and I've been a d.c. Resident
for ten years, and since august I've been watching mpd assist
ice in abducting my neighbors off our streets.
I'm disturbed by the leeway this oversight committee gives mpd to
commit violence and cooperate with federal forces.
first and utmost, we must stop mpd's collaboration with federal
forces. And you have so much power to do
that. A short, short list.
vote yes on the far emergency bill, which respectfully goes
way further than the one you reintroduced yesterday.
and it has cosigners. It's a better bill.
prohibit federal officers from using face coverings when
operating in d.c., require them to follow the same public
identification rules as mpd. And also, regardless of what the
feds do, require mpd to include federal officer names and badge
numbers in our pd. 251 grinstein reports.
when federal officers are on the scene, repeal local qualified
immunity for federal officers. Close the loophole on sanctuary
values act. Request a gps.
hold a hearing before the end of march, and also revoke mpd's
cooperation agreements. Why are we cooperating?
you have the power to make that happen.
second, we need to end mpd flock camera contracts.
mpd is operating 66 of them and plans to spend $5 million more.
flock is a known ice collaborators.
if you care about our city, you will revoke the mpd flock
contracts. Next, stop and frisk demand mpd
do their job. Now that they're extremely well
funded and published. Stop and frisk data.
it's a laughing stock. They will continue to make a
laughingstock until this oversight committee exerts its
power and forces them to do their job.
next, oppose jeffrey carroll. He's a known white supremacist
sympathizer. He's a history of aggressive
tactics. You have the power to stop
jeffrey carroll from becoming police chief next.
this fall, I submitted a foia request to mpd requesting all
mpd officer photos, which they have, and badge numbers allowing
for exceptions for undercover officers.
that foia request was denied. Why?
for officer for officer privacy, I asked given mpd officers
conduct their business with their faces visible and their
badge numbers visible. Why is this a denial for
privacy? And I was told if I didn't like
the response, I could appeal it. This is public information.
I should in bulk, be able to submit a foi request for every
single public mpd officer and get a list of photos and badge
numbers. It's no more extra information.
mpd has it and I'm being denied. That is abhorrent and that makes
our police officers should not be secret police and we need
that information. Finally, council member pinto,
you're asking me and all of residents to vote for you to
represent us in congress? And right now, I have seen
nothing to say that you will ever keep me safe or advocate
against the feds. Thank you.
thank you all. Thank you.
we're going to call our next panel.
kevin bell, mary gregory pemberton, madhvi bahl, and
pastor delonte golston. Go ahead.
kevin bell. Okay.
gregory pemberton. Yes.
thank you. Madhvi bahl.
okay. And then, pastor delonte
golston, are you still here? No.
okay. Marie.
drizzle. Thank you.
all right. Hey.
hey, everybody. We all in this committee treat
every person with respect, no matter what they're testifying.
and we are all going to that. That goes for everybody.
we're all going to treat everybody with respect and hear
from our our witnesses. Kevin bell, board member, d.c.
open government coalition. Yes.
hello. My name is kevin bell.
I'm a public records attorney with the free information group
and award for resident, and I am here today as a board member of
the d.c. Open government coalition.
thank you for the opportunity to testify.
these oversight hearings are critical opportunities to hear
and act on our city's most pressing issues.
last month, my client, stephanie clemens, testified about her
struggle for transparency at the oversight hearing for the office
of unified communications. And thanks to this body's
political work and courage, I am pleased to say that she has
already begun to receive the relief that she needed.
what's more, last thursday, february 19th, we saw the
introduction of your chairwoman pinto emergency medical services
clarification amendment act of 2026, which also addressed
issues raised in that hearing. So these hearings do clearly
matter. The city is desperate for
answers from mpd and brightwood park, where I live.
I cannot walk two blocks without passing a sign marking a
community members disappearance by ice.
lacking any official information about these kidnapings, local
activists have filled the gap with community knowledge.
as chair, you have seen firsthand mpd's disappointing
and inadequate in your words response to your oversight
letter about mpd's apparently enthusiastic support for federal
law enforcement. Mpd has long chafed at
transparency obligations, most recently from the 2022 police
reform act, which mandated greater access to body worn
camera footage under foia that would reveal that federal
cooperation transparency, however, is simply too expensive
to fit within the mpd's meager $650 million budget.
the office of the chief financial officer said as much
in 2024 when it copied and pasted the mpd's $4 million
guess from a single email with no cited methodology or sources
to describe how much that would cost.
less than, of course, we've discussed earlier, we're
planning on spending on flat cameras in 2024, mpd received
792 foia requests for body worn camera footage, of which 16 were
granted in full 265 in part at a reported cost of $87,000 from
mpd vendor, or about 325 bucks a pop.
the cost comes from a professed concern for the strict
protection of bystander privacy, the same pretext relied by ouc
to withhold the 911 calls from miss clemons and the same
pretext rejected last friday by the d.c. Superior court.
while ordering the release of the five hour, unredacted
recording of its facilitation of the doge raid on the us
institute of peace. Using mpd's own law breaking
tools. Why do I say this is a pretext?
mpd takes a janus faced approach to privacy and spending,
operating a 28,000 camera surveillance network frequently
handed over to the feds, has multiple contractors to surveil
the social media of d.c. Residents to tap into the
networks of activists and disrupters, according to public
records. Obtained foia litigation by the
brennan center. Mpd also compiles tweets about
graduation parties, birthdays and cookouts, and ward 7 and
eight shares compiled social media information with ice, the
department of homeland security, the usda, amazon, and the ogden
cap luxury apartment company. For some reason, citations for
that are in my written testimony.
despite all of this, mpd still refuses to release any body worn
camera footage, which features a federal agent in it because of
the need to protect their privacy.
we ask the council to fulfill the police reform act's
transparency promises by mandating the agency spend
appropriated money on transparency instead of this far
reaching domestic espionage. Nobody here is naive enough to
think that the release of records alone will lead to
change. But if they were not important,
we do not believe the mpd and the mayor would be trying so
hard to hide it. Thank you.
gregory pemberton, president, dc police union.
thank you. Good morning, members of the
committee, thank you for this opportunity to testify.
as the president of the dc police union, I speak on behalf
of approximately 2800 sworn police officers, detectives and
sergeants who serve this community as members of the mpd.
I've been a dc police officer for 21 years, and I take great
pride in serving the city. When I took office as head of
the police union in april of 2020, reports showed that we had
3797 sworn members on the department.
the mpd staffing report from february 4th, 2026 states we are
down to 3156, the lowest total number we have seen in over 50
years. This is a net loss of 641 sworn
members, as this attrition rate undoubtedly continues, we could
see this number drop below 3000 in less than a year.
while mpd public facing daily crime report has shown declines
in certain crime categories over the past two years, we should be
careful to celebrate recent investigations by the u.s.
attorney's office for the district of columbia and the
house committee on oversight and government reform have exposed a
systemic pattern of deliberate crime data manipulation under
former chief pam smith. These reports confirm what the
union has long warned mpd command staff and a corrosive
culture of fear pressured commanders to downgrade serious
felonies, such as assaults with dangerous weapon robberies,
burglaries and motor vehicle thefts to lesser offenses or
noncriminal classifications like injured person to the hospital
or pending investigation. This not only distorted public
statistics, but prevented proper investigations, leaving evidence
uncollected. Detectives uninvolved and
criminals unaccountable. To put this in perspective, the
internal national national incident based reporting system
nibrs data reported to the fbi showed a 2% increase in violent
crime for 2024, contradicting the dcr's fabricated 28%
decrease. The usa odc reviewed
approximately 5800 police reports and identified over 1200
misclassifications, including 78% of taking property without
right reports, 33% of aggravated assaults, 68% pending
investigation cases. This manipulation hid the true
extent of crime, gaslighting residents about their personal
experiences and basing public safety decisions on falsified
data. This command staff officials who
so blatantly and callously chose to falsify police reports and
crime stats for their own political benefit, are the same
officials responsible for investigating union members?
so when the council made the misguided decision to strip away
key employee protections such as due process rights and
disciplinary actions and privacy rights, they hindered unfettered
authority to an abusive command staff, further eroding morale
and driving experience personnel out the door.
the staffing crisis forced mpd to rely on an unprecedented
amount of overtime hours to maintain basic operations.
for fiscal year 2025, the mpd used 1.7 million hours of
overtime, nearly four times the average, costing over $130
million. This unsustainable pattern is a
major factor in officers retiring early or leaving for
other agencies. It is of the utmost important
that we properly staff to handle any emergency that may affect
the city. We've handled everything from
extended periods of civil unrest to pandemics to aircraft
collisions. Being understaffed undermines
the safety of the city as well as its citizens and
institutions. The union asked for the council
to consider repealing or amending prior legislation that
is negatively affected. The ability to hire and retain
our best employees. Specifically, legislation
affecting employee rights. These are at the heart of mpd's
performance. Thank you for the opportunity to
testify. Welcome.
any questions you may have. Thank you.
thank you. Madhvi ball, court organizer,
migrant solidarity mutual aid. Hi, chair pinto, members of the
committee. We got to stop meeting like
this. I'm once again here testifying
about mpd and federal law enforcement collaboration.
and I'm once again deeply frustrated.
in fact, there's nothing that I can say today that I didn't
already say in december or in october or during the many other
hearings I've testified at in this committee over the years.
but I will give it a go. My name is madhvi bell.
I'm a core organizer with migrant solidarity mutual aid,
or msma. Since january 2025, msma has
operated a 24 over seven emergency hotline.
in august, when the expanded occupation of d.c. Began
overnight, mismos hotline became the emergency hotline for all
federal law enforcement activity in the district.
over the past six months, we have fielded thousands of calls
from d.c. Residents witnessing federal law enforcement harass,
assault, or kidnap our neighbors while mpd joins in or looks on.
we have heard from thousands of families desperately trying to
find their loved ones who disappeared off the street, only
to learn that ice has them or they're at ccp.
none of this would have been possible without mpd's full
throated collaboration. The mayor and this council have
also played a role in this. By enacting policies and passing
legislation that have been exploited by mpd and the feds to
further harm dc residents, such as the mayor's youth.
curfews to target black youth, or teaming up with the metro
transit police to target black and brown neighbors at metro
stations under the guise of fare evasion.
this should all seem familiar to you, considering a lot if it was
insecure d.c., and a lot of it was championed by you and then
and passed by the council. We told you this during that
fight. We said that when you allow
people to when you supercharge enforcement, when you expand
criminalization, it will lead here.
it doesn't matter if it's mpd doing it or federal law
enforcement, the policies and the legislation.
you pass got us here. And I really, really want you to
understand that. Mpd is a rogue police
department, and you're doing nothing to rein them in.
in fact, you're enabling it. This is a police department that
gave us people like shane lamont, who worked with the
proud boys, or greg pemberton, who just spoke, who have has
been seen to rub shoulders with the fascists in chief trump and
project veritas and interim chief jeffrey carroll, who has
been who's also seems to have a soft spot for the proud boys.
are we supposed to believe that these people are not going to
relish at the chance to work with the feds, to lock up black
and brown folks? Are we really supposed to
believe that? I don't, after hearing him
speak, I definitely don't. I don't know what to say except
consider please doing your job. And today I invite you all to be
human beings and protect d.c. Residents and end the
collaboration. Okay?
thank you. Thank you everybody.
marie driscoll, public witness. My name is marie driscoll.
my family has lived in dc for 170 straight years.
I am here to testify in support of the metropolitan police for
more than two years, my neighbors near the chinese
ambassador's home at s and 23rd streets were subjected to
harassment. Protesters use amplified
megaphones to blast messages and mandarin at deafening levels.
from 7 a.m. Until 9 p.m., seven days a week.
the situation was so tense that residents could not think
straight, could not have close family members stay in their
homes, and could not use their home offices.
with your support and the leadership of mpd, the council
enacted legislation to limit amplified noise in residential
zones. The law is now permanent.
I am happy to report that the early morning and late night
noise has finally ceased. I want to thank interim chief
jeffrey cao during the height of the crisis, deputy chief carol
showed up unannounced to observe these harassers firsthand.
he understood immediately that this was not a legitimate first
amendment exercise, but a calculated game.
he testified before the council that decibel testing was a cat
and mouse game. The protesters knew how to rig
his clear testimony that the residential tranquility act was
enforceable, and that stationing officers there indefinitely was
a waste of vital resources. He is instrumental in defining
this problem and presenting his position supporting the proposed
law. A major substantive and
enforceable change in noise laws in 50 years and at the same time
protecting the first amendment. On a personal note, I was I was
present when a protester charged at me yelling in mandarin.
an empty canine officer intercepted her and protected
me. I am deeply grateful for their
presence. I also want to address the
issues regarding ice and crime statistics.
recently, neighbors were terrified that an ice raid was
occurring at a church on our block known for its homeless
feeding program. We contacted church leadership
and discovered it was actually a medical emergency, and pd
arrived to assist with the emergency medical service team.
regarding the. And also, I just want to add, I
have heard many issues here today of grave concern and am
and am very impressed with the testimony of tyler hobson
powell. Regarding concerns over
downgrading of crime statistics. I welcome a legitimate, serious
review of these issues. Thank you.
thank you, thank you all very much for your testimony.
we're going to call the next panel, alexander howard, julian
hedlund. Is julia here?
is julia hedlund here? Yes.
wayne j. Okay.
for wayne. Okay, okay.
jay brown will be there. Talib.
kareem muhammad and mr. Brown, could you sit next to mr.
howard, please. And we'll go in order.
talib. Kareem.
muhammad, are you here? Kwanzaa.
billy. Talia.
brock. Talia.
brock, are you here? Yes.
okay. Ashley.
anderson. Thank you.
okay. We will begin with alexander
howard, public witness. Good morning.
thank you for the opportunity to speak with you today.
thank you to bridging the information void that was left
by the executive branch during the snow emergency.
you and my councilman allen were out there in social media
telling us what was happening when our government would not.
this, unfortunately, is an ongoing problem across the
district. I've been a resident since 2009.
I've been a journalist here. I've been an advocate for open
government, including at the sunlight foundation, where I had
the opportunity to engage with the council and with the
executive on some of these issues.
I am grateful to everyone who is engaged in defense of the
freedom of information act, but I'm disappointed by the
weakening of public meeting standards and the lapses of
oversight around transparency and accountability.
it's very clear that foia is broken.
I suggest you hold a hearing and hold accountable every single
official who is supposed to be involved in the administration
of that. In an age when the public right
to know about public business has never been more important,
access to critical police records remains poor across our
union, including here in the district.
the mpd is required by law to make its arrest records public,
including arrests by federal law enforcement agencies that are
operating here. But despite many improvements to
the district's open data portal by octo since its historic
launch in 2008, arrest data continues to be missing context
and timeliness that would make it relevant to news reporting
and to public awareness of public policing.
the council of d.c. Should require the mpd to publish all
arrest data as open data on the district's portal, with monthly
audits from staff and biannual oversight hearings.
mpd has not been honoring an important provisions in the
police reform act, which the council itself has correctly
noted are crucial to keeping our police officers accountable to
the public they serve. This council should be fully
funding the police reform act to ensure that cost is no longer
used as justification to withhold and redact public
records from public access under foia, where when proactive
disclosures in the public interest.
this is even more important given the trump administration's
termination of the national law enforcement accountability
database that president biden once ordered be created but kept
secret, which has now been wiped off the books.
the need for a database to hold law enforcement accountable is
only grown more apparent this past year, as we've seen a
secret federal police force engaged in unconstitutional
policing across our union, including brazen violation of
civil rights, human rights and civil liberties by anonymous
officers shielded from liability from the use of force.
the mpd should be protecting the constitutional rights of every
person in our union, not just the citizens.
every person, first amendment rights, fourth amendment rights,
fifth amendment rights. They should be there to protect
us against secret police, not be collaborating with them.
and you should be fully funding the laws that you pass.
public service is a public trust.
if you do not implement these laws, you will lose the trust of
this district and the people can and will hold every member of
this council accountable for that failure.
thank you. Shay brown, public witness.
yeah, so I'm dealing with some shortness of breath.
so I ain't got time. To play with y'all today.
I'm sick of the council bs. I'm sick of npd's bs.
I'm sick of bowser bs and I'm so glad that preaching as pastor,
whatever that pam smith gon I'm saying this.
I'm sorry to interrupt you if you could not hold the mic
because I think it's going to create some echo for the go
ahead. Okay, do you want me to repeat
that? Because I would love to repeat
that part. Okay, cool.
all right. I hear a lot of talk about
collaboration and cooperation with mpd and the federal agents.
I don't look at it. Look at it that way.
I look at them like they're co-defendants.
they're co-defendants. And when we sit in positions of
power, especially positions that are oppressive, like when we
push the security d.c. Bill knowing that it was a failure
when you had members of your council tell me to my face,
don't worry about the sacrifices of the black and brown community
members. This is a smoke screen for
congress. I held my tongue because I
wanted to protect home rule, but it only set up a situation that
was stronger for the feds to mess with our community.
those policies failed us, and now it emboldened the federal
agencies. Please don't become or don't add
to our view of you, pinto and the council members as
codefendants of to these atrocities that are going on and
our community with these federal police who are who is the person
that's supervising our mpd officers when they're working
with these individuals? Because when I call the
commander hickman and every, every time there's an incident,
he tells me, that wasn't us. That's not us.
I didn't know they were in our community.
that's not us. Then what the hell do you know
who's responsible for them knowing.
and when those federal agencies out there and our members of the
community say, hey, who can we talk to?
where's the supervisor? We get a flash bang, a --
grenade, a smoke bomb, some mace.
those are the answers that we're getting.
I'm sick of it. I feel like I'm begging the
oppressor about what kind of cotton we picking?
we really gotta get this together for real.
when julian bailey got hit up around mayfair, that's the same
route my daughter take home from school every single day.
thank you, mr. Brown. You.
absolutely there, talia brock, program director.
critical exposure. Good afternoon.
members of the council. My name is talia brock.
I'm the program director at critical exposure, a member of
the youth safety collective and a resident of ward four.
a critical exposure. We work primarily with black and
brown youth to transform dc communities and schools through
youth organizing, storytelling, and photography.
the impacts of our policing system have long been an issue
area for us. Much of our past work has been
connected to the school to prison pipeline, restorative
justice programs in dc schools as well.
in the months since august, the residents of this city who have
already regularly been in the presence of a long list of
federal law enforcement agencies have had to deal with armed
national guard and ice agents roaming the streets.
the youth we work with have shared how deeply anxious they
are every day. Because of this, black and brown
residents who have had long reason to distrust law
enforcement are now seeing mpd work in collaboration with
federal immigration enforcement agencies.
it's hard to imagine that seeing families being ripped apart is
doing anything other than eroding the already tenuous
level of trust that black and brown youth have with the
police. Time and time again, our city's
response to issues of community safety is greater investment in
law enforcement. Instead, we should be doing what
youth and advocates have been asking for, for over and over
again, addressing the root causes, a lack of consistent
access to the basic material needs that a human requires for
survival. I'm here today to speak on the
experiences of two young people who have had experiences with
law enforcement as evidence of the harmful impact these police
encounters have on the youth in our city.
one of the members of our youth organizing collective shared a
story when her brother was 11 years old.
he had just gotten money from his father to go to the
carryout, and while he was on his way, I want to note here
that he was alone. He was stopped by police.
three white police officers told her brother to put his hands up
with tasers in their hands. They detained him, questioned
him to see if he was a young person they'd been looking for,
who had allegedly been stealing from a 7-eleven.
they said that he fit the description.
her brother told them that it wasn't him, and then one of the
officers asked for his id they did let him go, but they also
told him not to tell his parents about this interaction.
the youth member who shared this story said to me, I want to tell
people because my brother has gone through so much with the
police and this is just one of his stories.
I'm not afraid to speak up about police and how they view young
black people. Incidents like this are far from
uncommon, and they deepen the historically rooted distrust
that black and brown youth develop for law enforcement at
an early age. Another youth member shared that
she was heading home on the metro and had run out of money
to exit the station. She said I don't usually jump
the fare gates thanks to my mom's advocacy on keeping money
on my smartrip. One night, I ran out of money
and my bank account and was with my friend who had a kids ride
free card. I used her card to get through
and was immediately stopped by an officer.
he questioned her. She explained that she had no
money in her bank account to get through this.
cop then proceeded to walk her over to the card load reload
machine and put the only money she had left, which was a $5 in
cash which she was going to use to buy something important that
she needed. She then the officer then took
the card out of her hand, put it on a machine to check to make
sure that there was money on it, even though he had watched her
reload it. And then he took her card and he
used it to spend on a fare gate for another person.
the last thing I just want to add, in addition to the fact
that this kind of response, without any level of
understanding or kindness, exemplifies a harmful use of
power through the officer's choice to publicly shame her.
this particular young person is out of high school, but she just
graduated in may and was only 18 years old at the time.
the critical exposure is working with the youth power and safety
collective, which is working on an issue related to young people
ages 18 1920, aging out of access to kids rides.
free card. Research from dc action states
that youth employment in 2024 was 16.4%, three times the
overall dc unemployment rate. I hope these stories provide
greater insight into the experiences of dc youth.
we should not be reinforcing the already booming business that is
the school to prison pipeline. Thank you.
thank you, miss frost. Thank you, ashley anderson,
policy council, dc justice labs. Good afternoon, chairwoman pinto
and members of the committee. My name is ashley anderson.
I am a policy counsel with dc justice lab, a resident of ward
6 and a member of the iris database coalition.
today, my testimony will again emphasize that npd's
collaboration with federal agencies over the last seven
months has not made dc safer, but has harmed our residents.
in addition, I will highlight npd's growing and alarming use
of surveillance technology and how it's harming our neighbors.
I urge you to act and echo the demands of dc residents to hold
mpd accountable for the harms committed while working
alongside federal officers by putting guardrails on mpd
authority, it is encouraging to see the introduction of two
pieces of legislation, an important step in the direction
of transparency, and I look forward to seeing step towards
accountability. In addition, you must use your
power as an oversight body to provide transparency around
mpd's use of surveillance technologies.
today, at this hearing, you should ask the interim chief
about what information is being shared with federal entities and
ask about the disproportionate racial impact of the use of
surveillance technology. More complaints against mpd were
filed in 2025 than ever before, with weekly complaints
increasing. When the federal surge began.
the office of police complaints reported receiving over 1000
complaints in fiscal year 2025, a 13% increase over the prior
year and the highest number the agency has received since its
beginning more than 20 years ago.
even after you wrote a letter to the chief in december seeking
clarity on mpd collaboration with federal agencies, the
interim chief penned a short response, barely answering any
of the detailed questions you asked.
when the interim chief comes today, I urge you and the
committee to get the answers that dc residents deserve.
but not only should you get answers to your questions about
mpd collaborations with federal entities, the council needs to
act to defend the city against the attacks we are facing.
I echoed the demands and solutions that I shared in my
december 4th testimony, such as by using your oversight
authority to provide transparency and accountability
for the mpd officer involved. Shootings we saw last fall.
additionally, I hope the council continues to evaluate excessive
and unnecessary interactions between law enforcement and
residents. D.c. Has a growing surveillance
problem. Just at the last performance
oversight hearing, former chief pamela smith testified about the
expansion of cctv cameras and their integration with the real
time crime center. However, I did not hear any
concern or consideration about the growing use of surveillance
technology by mpd. How would this impact residents
fourth amendment and privacy rights and create harmful
contact with criminal legal system, while disproportionately
targeting black and young people in the district?
for more than a decade, mpd has also maintained in use its gang
tracking and analysis system, or gang database to secretly
surveil thousands of residents, often without suspicion of
criminal activity. As the erased database coalition
wrote in its letter to this committee earlier this week,
this database disproportionately includes black residents,
particularly in ward seven and eight, and the information is
shared with law enforcement agencies.
despite ongoing concerns about accuracy, transparency and its
limited impact for public safety, the coalition demands
that mpd stop using the gang database again today.
at this hearing, I urge you to demand more information from mpd
about its use of surveillance and its impact on residents, and
I look forward to supporting to establishing more transparency
on this matter and to ultimately restrict the use of surveillance
technology in dc. Thank you for the opportunity to
speak with you all. Thank you.
thank you all. Talib.
kareem muhammad, are you here? Great.
come on up, meg messier. Yes.
ava. Millstone.
okay. Joanna hardy.
michaela deming. All right.
is there anyone else in here who has signed up to testify in
person? Who has not testified yet?
okay, okay, we will go first to talib.
kareem muhammad? Yes.
okay. Yes.
sorry about that. Good afternoon.
I'm. I'm talib muhammad.
I'm a engineer, a lawyer, a ward three resident, former chief of
staff of the largest dc government agency, former
counsel to the previous mayor and former special counsel to
the special committee on dc statehood.
former chief of counsel for congresswoman sheila jackson
lee, who oversaw the civil rights committee, which is a key
committee in the house judiciary committee to determine whether
or not dc will be a state. And I wanted to give that
background, first of all, to let everyone know that I'm also
running for mayor of washington, dc.
and the reason why I'm running for mayor is because the current
members of the council, including councilmember janice.
george and yourself for two years in a row, we came before
the council invited by the chairman to put forth a idea to
keep our young people safe after school.
as you all know, the violent hours, most violent hours during
the week is generally the time between 3 and 6 when our young
people are out of school and their parents are oftentimes at
work for two years in a row. Instead of allocating the monies
that could have been used to keep our young people safe and
keep them from engaging in conduct that none of us would
like to see, you all chose to say no to that money, but yes to
the billionaires first, the billionaires who own the
washington wizards and then the billionaires who own the
washington commanders. That's what a mentor of mine
pulled me to the side and said, talib, the people currently
running dc government don't care about the youth.
and if you really want to see change, you're going to have to
be that change and run for mayor.
if elected as mayor from day one, I would end all
collaboration with all federal authorities, not just ice.
as was stated by congressman or councilmember janice george, but
all federal authorities. We need to reestablish that law
enforcement in the district of columbia is a local concern.
second of all, we would end the idf training that happens
through the federal government's training of our dc law
enforcement. We need to end that.
second of all, we would end the bans against businesses from
protesting and boycotting the genocide by the current laws
that prevent companies from getting contracts if they
boycott israel. In conclusion, I'd like to just
invite everyone here to the 15th annual ramadan iftar that's
scheduled to take place downstairs on next tuesday.
everyone is invited and we will be standing for our brothers and
sisters, both in palestine, our brothers and sisters in all
eight wards, and prayerfully end the occupation of d.c. Free d.c.
okay, thank you mr. Muhammad. I do want to remind folks that
we cannot politic in this building.
we are here around mpd oversight.
so as I stated at the beginning, we've all got to follow the
rules, including those of us who enforce the rules.
okay, meg messier, public witness.
good afternoon, chairperson pinto and members of the
committee. My name is meg messier, and I'm
a staff attorney at the domestic violence and family law unit at
legal aid d.c. Legal aid. D.c. Works with survivors of
domestic violence by helping them navigate their civil
protection order, or cpo cases, family court matters, and
immigration matters. This work requires significant
coordination with mpd. I want to bring attention to
several areas of concern regarding mpd's interaction with
our client communities. First, mpd has been inaccurately
reading court documents and laws.
survivors rely on mpd to provide accurate information when they
are in stressful and dangerous situations.
however, we continue to hear of instances where mpd misinformed
district residents about the law.
for example, encouraging survivors to file for cpos even
when the incident they report is not an intrafamily offense as
required by law, or telling survivors incorrect ways to
serve respondents with necessary court documents.
these inaccurate recommendations create safety risks for
survivors. Second, mpd has increasingly
arrested survivors of domestic violence.
survivors rely on mpd to be able to assess the situation,
identify the primary aggressor, and take steps to keep survivors
safe. Unfortunately, over the past
year, at least seven legal adc clients who have been
experiencing domestic violence from a partner were arrested
following an incident where they were the victims of domestic
violence. Survivors should be able to rely
on mpd for protection, not fear, arrest or other consequences.
next, mpd does not have a proactive process for gun
relinquishment by respondents for all tpos and many cpos
respondents are prohibited from possessing, purchasing or
receiving any firearms or ammunition while the order is in
effect. We know that an abuser's access
to a firearm makes it five times more likely that the survivor
will be killed by their abuser. Currently, mpd officers don't
ask respondents about firearms or relinquish firearms when
serving or enforcing tpos or cpos.
mpd officers need to have a proactive process for gun
relinquishment to ensure survivor safety.
next, mpd continues to decline certification of uva's u visas
offer immigrant crime victims temporary legal status to file a
petition for a u visa. Crime victims must get
certification from a law enforcement entity that the
victim has been helpful in either the investigation or
prosecution of a crime. Even where a victim has been
fully cooperative, mpd refuses to certify u visas where another
law enforcement agency is involved.
mpd refusal to certify isn't survivor centered.
last, the lack of clarity surrounding mpd's cooperation
with ice discourages survivors, immigrant survivors from
reporting crime and providing information to mpd.
the presence of ice has caused immigrant victims in d.c. To
fear for their well-being, distrust law enforcement, and
decide against seeking protection for themselves.
immigrant survivors like our client should be able to
interact with mpd to ensure their safety without fear of
immigration related consequences.
in all, mpd response to domestic violence survivors remains a
critical point in survivors journeys, and we appreciate the
opportunity to testify today. Our written testimony lays out
these issues and more in more detail.
thank you very much. Thank you.
michaela deming, policy director, dc coalition against
domestic violence. Thank you.
good afternoon, chair, pinto and staff.
thank you for the accommodation of testifying.
my name is michaela deming. I'm the policy director for the
dc coalition against domestic violence, the federally
recognized statewide coalition of domestic violence service
providers here in dc, serving upwards of 1000 victims of
domestic violence survivors on any given day across all eight
wards of the district. Improving public safety in the
district requires protecting victims and witnesses of crime,
regardless of their background. When survivors of violence are
afraid that contacting the police exposes them and their
loved ones to violent federal law enforcement actions, they
often remain silent. Rather than seeking the
protection and services they urgently need and deserve.
all dc residents are less safe when victims and witnesses are
discouraged from reporting crime and seeking safety and justice
like they are now. Over 75% of advocates who work
with immigrant survivors of violence report that their
clients express concern about contacting the police to report
domestic violence and sexual assault, and half of those
victims ultimately chose not to call the police because of that
fear. Here in dc, immigrant survivors
and black and brown folks, regardless of citizenship or
legal status, have shared that they are afraid to come to
service providers offices to seek help or go to court for
protection orders. Every day, domestic violence
survivors. Our neighbors are making
impossible choices for themselves and their children.
between their physical safety and d.c. And the potential of
being ripped away from their children permanently and
returned to dangerous situations that they may have fled.
the lack of clarity about the collaboration with mpd, national
guard, ice and all the other law enforcement entities has made
our work increasingly challenging and has put
survivors, the survivors we work with, at even greater risk.
we spoke recently with a deputy mayor for public safety in front
of this committee, and heard from her a lack of firm
rescission of the police chief's executive order here now before
the mpd committee hearing, want to make sure that the committee
is aware that the police chief's executive order expanding
cooperation and permitting ice to, quote, share information
about persons not in mpd custody with federal immigration
enforcement agencies is in fact, still in place.
it has not been rescinded despite numerous requests to
rescind that order or any legal confirmation to support that
it's no longer operational. You might hear in that person's
not in mpd. Custody, of course, would
include victims and witnesses of crime.
I hope you raise these unanswered questions with mpd
today. I also want to highlight a
couple of other things. One, the rate of domestic
violence homicide in the district is rising, and that is
even with the declines in homicides overall and also want
to raise, as has already been raised a couple of times, the
uva certification process concerns in the recent changes
in what mpd is requiring. At the very same time that
federal law enforcement is using the guise of unlawful
immigration as a reason for subjecting our neighbors to
increased violence and enforcement, mpd is making it
nearly impossible for immigrant survivors to pursue lawful
status, appreciate the opportunity to testify.
thank you very much, miss deming, and thank you to
everybody for being here today and for your your testimony.
we are going to turn to our virtual witnesses who have
joined us today. I'm going to call some names as
a reminder to please accept your invitation to join as a
panelist. O geoff a nanuku elizabeth page,
cecilia bruni, cheryl k, afeni evans, tiffany montgomery, paula
edwards, max ewert, sofia boschetti, vanessa lopez.
queen, odissi, shane sullivan, christine conroy, kristi
matthews, jones, mary calhoun. I'll give you all a moment to
join. I see cecilia bruni on so we can
get started with you. But as a reminder to everybody
else joining us for virtual testimony to please accept your
invitation to join as a panelist, we will begin with
cecilia bruni, public witness. Good afternoon, chairperson
pinto and members of the committee.
my name is cecilia bruni and I'm a staff attorney in the reentry
justice project at legal aid d.c.
since 2015, legally, reentry justice project has assisted
clients facing barriers to accessing housing, employment
and other necessities due to their criminal record.
we help community members seek record clearing relief, most
frequently under the second chance amendment act or caa.
that work requires that we interact with mpd to request
arrest histories for clients and certifications that their
records have been sealed at legal aid.
we've been excited to see the increased access to
opportunities and greater sense of dignity that the caa provides
for our client community, and we appreciate the council's
commitment to increasing public safety through enacting the caa.
yet administrative delays and challenges that stem from
interacting with mpd have hindered the scars impact.
I'm here today to speak about three areas of concern related
to mpd that continues to create barriers to individuals seeking
record clearing relief in the district.
first, we experience frequent delays when requesting arrest
histories from mpd. Arrest histories are documents
that list all of the client's d.c. Arrests.
they're necessary for sealing motions, and they must be
requested and picked up in person.
although some arrest history requests are fulfilled within
weeks, mpd sometimes takes multiple months to fulfill a
request while providing no status updates.
we also have had several clients receive inaccurate mpd arrest
histories and have seen clients struggle to obtain their arrest
histories from mpd until a legal service provider steps in to
assist. These delays.
slow down the already lengthy process of record sealing for
our clients. They require additional time and
labor on our staff's part, and they raised concerns for us
about mpd, respect for our client community, and the ease
of access to necessary records for community members looking
for relief under the sca. Second, to request an arrest
history mpd requires sensitive information about clients,
including their social security number and place of birth.
we are very concerned that requiring this information
deters individuals who are not u.s. Citizens from pursuing
record clearing relief between fears over mpd's cooperation
with ice and the usao focus on identifying noncitizens through
dc's court system, we are troubled that immigrant members
of our client community are not getting the same access to
record clearing relief as their citizen counterparts.
third, mpd often fails to provide certifications of
sealing within 90 days as required by the sca and court
orders. These certifications are some of
the only means by which an individual can know whether the
relief that they've been granted has been realized.
for clients, this delay means that despite having a court
order in hand sealing their criminal records, the barriers
that the sca sought to eliminate instead can persist.
thank you for the opportunity to testify today.
we urge the committee to ensure that mpd improves how it works
with system impacted community members and aligns its practices
with the council's goal of expanding public safety through
record sealing relief, so that all community members can gain
full access to the relief offered under the sca.
thank you. Thank you, afeni evans.
hello. Good afternoon, councilmember
pinto and members of the judiciary and public safety
committee. My name is afeni evans, and I'm
a community organizer with the fair budget coalition.
I'm here today because I am disgusted with the metropolitan
police department's immoral and illegal participation with ice
and the federal task force. Year after year, members of the
public come to this committee asking for the counsel that is
on the people's payroll to divest from the brutality of
punishment and policing, and to send money to other committees
to invest in social safety nets that actually have been proven
time and time again to be effective in creating safety.
every piece of legislation that you have put forward,
whitewashing, police misconduct and emboldening brutality and
criminalizing our children has laid the groundwork for the
worst outcomes of this federal occupation.
on august 15th, I was pepper sprayed, slammed to the ground
and arrested for what should have been a civil citation.
I was held for 18 hours with pepper spray in my eyes, all
over my face and all down the front of my body in places that
you don't even want to imagine. While this action was not
carried out by mpd, your officers were on the scene
actively collaborating and this incident is indicative of the
culture of policing that has led in the district that that in the
district that is led by mpd and legislated by you, every
unlawful arrest, every unnecessary detainment, every
single unwarranted police shooting is on your hands.
and mark cross got up here and said that there were three
complaints. And then it shot up to 87, which
makes it clear to me that this agency is either not properly
tracking its officers or they are purposely obfuscating the
truth. There has been collaboration
between mpd and ice. That is a fact.
it is also true that it is a violation of the law.
and further collaboration with the federal occupation
undermines dc's autonomy. So my questions are these how
much of our money is going towards collaborating with the
federal occupation? How many officers are lended in
support of these ice kidnapings, and how does this impact their
use of overtime? It is your job, council member
pinto to get these answers, to oversee this agency and to hold
them accountable. Do your job and maybe then I
will thank you. Thank you, miss evans.
oh, hefa anyanwu, aclu d.c. Saldana.
who are you here? Go ahead.
of course. Didn't unmute.
sorry about that. Hello, chair pinto and members
of the committee. My name is anna echo and I
present the following on behalf of aclu d.c.
my written testimony goes into more detail about how we got to
this current moment, and also touches on the search for new
police chief, a process that should be transparent, inclusive
and centered. D.c. Communities most impacted
by police and community violence.
there's much to be said about the impact of federal
interference on dcs inability to be nimble.
in this moment, however, we must acknowledge that the groundwork
for the severity of the federal takeover was laid by a history
of defiance from mpd, as well as actions from from district
leaders, including the council. While for some, the clock
started last august, the abuses of power we are seeing from
federal agents and mpd are not new black latina immigrant
communities who have always been.
the canaries in the coal mine have long been the primary
targets of police brutality and used as political fodder.
in response to calls for more investments in community based
solutions to violence, dc leaders gave more money to mpd.
they also passed legislation such as security, and dcc, that
further criminalized certain segments of the population, with
an urgency that did not exist for reining in mpd.
accountability measures that were passed, such as the
establishment of a police misconduct database, went
unfunded. The defiance mpd leaders
continue to exhibit can be attributed in part to the
council's reluctance to take up measures.
excuse me? The council's reluctance to take
up measures that address transparency and accountability.
this reluctance has resulted in a history of mpd officers and
the department writ large, acting with an air of impunity,
mpd has gotten use to there being no consequences when they
disregard district laws or violate department policies when
they fail to implement, when they fail to implement
recommendations or publish reports or lie about their
policing practices. Mpd is emboldened by a lack of
pushback. For instance, when department
leadership decided to reinstate terrance sutton and andrew
zubowski, who were found guilty and convicted of murdering karen
hilton brown and conspiring to cover it up, this history is why
mpd officers can feel comfortable not reporting
federal agents who shoot dc residents and leadership lying
about the department's engagement in immigration
enforcement. While the dc council has taken
actions that have had negative impacts on the public's faith in
this body, this moment presents a critical opportunity to
ameliorate some of those harms. The council can meet this moment
by taking bold actions to surrounding mpd, and by working
with impacted communities on meaningful solutions that do not
center policing. It can start by acting on the
recommendations outlined in the report by the committee on
public works. Thank you.
thank you. I want to note we've been joined
by my ward 4 colleague, council member janeese lewis george.
all right. We will turn to tiffany.
tiffany montgomery. Hi.
good afternoon. Can you hear me?
yes, we can hear you. Thank you very much for the
opportunity to testify regarding mpd.
I first want to thank. Mpd leadership for not just
communicating with me, but for also communicating with legal
staff at congress. After it was discovered that the
dc office of the inspector general had.
lied to mpd and also destroyed and falsified government records
to give a little bit of background information.
I'm a whistleblower, and I reported fraud at the d.c. Board
of ethics and government accountability, also known as to
my former supervisor, director of office of open government,
nicole allen was referred for criminal investigation by dc
department of human resources and subsequently and separately
by mpd. Mpd had referred not just miss
allen for criminal investigation, but several other
people at baga. And unfortunately, the dc office
of the inspector general outright lied to mpd about
conducting those criminal investigations.
it was later discovered that oig not just lied to law
enforcement, but oig has destroyed and falsified
government records and part of the reason why the bowser act
was introduced by senator mike lee and congressman andy ogles
is because criminal suspect nicole allen has basically made
it difficult or less than honest concerning government
transparency to the public and to government officials.
so criminal suspect nicole allen is responsible for the
enforcement of open government and foia laws.
and she is in fact, contradicting what she's
supposed to do in her official capacity.
baga has concealed or sometimes ignored complaints made by
members of the public or government officials who have
filed violations of ethics complaints to baga, and these
complaints were ignored fully, or sometimes just hidden or
concealed or ignored. And so other people have
contacted congress independently.
and I'm thankful for those individuals.
and once again, I am thankful to mpd leadership for referring
criminal suspect nicole allen to various law enforcement
agencies, and for also communicating with legal staff
at gop oversight. And I am disappointed in dc
council for illegally reappointing a convicted felon
by the name of darren sobin to, as well as every other corrupt
baga board member who was fraudulently appointed,
including felice smith, who misrepresented her legal
qualifications when she was first appointed in may 2019.
she wasn't even licensed as a lawyer until december 2023,
which oig falsified. The government records
concerning. Thank you for the opportunity to
testify. Thank you.
paula edwards. Commissioner edwards, are you
on? Okay.
max ewert. Good afternoon.
my name is max ewert. I'm a native washingtonian, ward
1 resident and an organizer with the dmv chapter of the
international jewish labor bund. Our organizing is guided by the
political philosophy of yiddish for hereness bundists believe
that our collective liberation is not tied to a nationalistic
project, but in solidarity with working in marginalized people.
where we live today. I'm here to testify regarding
the performance of the metropolitan police department.
over 100 people here today have spoken and will continue to
speak on mpd's collaboration with federal agents and how they
have collectively decimated our community.
I would like to speak specifically about cellebrite
and more specifically, the pathfinder ai software, a tool
that mpd has been using to more efficiently, efficiently harm
our neighbors. Cellebrite is a surveillance
company that has contracts with ice, mpd, and many other police
agencies throughout the world. They created the universal
forensics extraction device, or ufd, to break into phones and
extract their data. More recently, cellebrite has
been offering has been offering their pathfinder tool, an ai
software by celebrates own omission can be used to analyze
location data, correlate like phone numbers or other
identification methods, interpret slang and coded
language, and analyze images and videos, including facial
analysis. This is personal data that can
be scraped and analyzed, even if mpd does not have a valid reason
to search or retain someone's phone, or has coerced vulnerable
people to hand over their phone for fear of prosecution,
something that mpd has done in the past.
additionally, I would like to add that in mpd's responses,
they lied about the ai tools that they are using.
specifically on question 199, where they stated the only ai
tools that they use are from the adobe suite, leaving off the
pathfinder ai tool. Mpd has had a pathfinder
contract since 2022, and is slated to renew that contract.
this tool has undoubtedly been used to wreak havoc on the
migrant community and our black and brown neighbors, who have
historically been overpoliced and criminalized.
access to this data would allow mpd, or anyone they work with to
track down, identify and surveil children, neighbors, or anyone
in proximity to someone whose cell phone data they have
scraped. Even you.
I would be shocked to find out that this was not used in
collaboration with federal agents.
mpd's use of this surveillance tool reminds me of ibm's
collaboration with nazi germany, where the company's technology
was used to systematically target my ancestors in europe,
making it easier for the nazi party to commit genocide.
celebrates inhumane use by mpd is not an isolated occurrence.
there is documented use of this company's technology against
protesters and organizers abroad.
the unfortunate reality is that cellebrite is not alone in its
abuse of personal privacy with their surveillance tools.
there are many companies who do something similar.
is my goal today to urge the council and this committee not
to play whack a mole with surveillance companies as a tool
for the police, but to abolish the use of them outright.
thank you. Thank you so who else do we have
here? Sophia boschetti.
I'm here. Okay.
vanessa lopez. Christina.
corey. Hello.
sorry. One second.
hi. Good afternoon.
chairperson pinto. My name is christine corey, and
I am a born and raised washingtonian currently residing
in ward 5. I'm here today to testify about
mpd's ongoing collaboration with federal agencies, as well as
npds use of invasive technologies such as automated
license plate readers or alpr as a tool of surveillance.
it is true that dc has always been a heavily policed and
heavily surveilled city, with its black, brown and immigrant
communities suffering the greatest consequences.
but the escalation of violence and terror we have seen in
recent months has been shocking and represents a fundamental
threat to human rights for all residents of the district.
so many of our neighbors are too afraid to even go outside to do
everyday tasks, like getting groceries for fear of harassment
or detention. While mpd has denied and
downplayed its collaboration with ice and other federal
agencies, there is abundant footage available that indicates
the exact opposite. In addition to the harm caused
to our most vulnerable communities, the persistent
obfuscation of a reality that so many of us have witnessed with
our own eyes erodes public trust and further contributes to the
culture of fear that has overtaken our city.
amidst this growing climate of violence, terror and distrust,
we are also facing rapidly increasing surveillance.
mpd operates 66 floc automated license plate readers in dc, and
records indicate that mpd intends to spend between 1
million and $5 million to expand floc cameras in the downtown
corridor. Whatever the stated rationale
for these systems is, the fact is that they collect data about
all our movement without any guarantees or protections in
place to ensure that it is not misused.
these cameras are connected to a national network where law
enforcement agencies, including federal agencies, can query the
data, and floc has a track record of collaborating with
ice. Given that mpd has not responded
to a freedom of information act request for the floc data, we
have no way of knowing how they are using it.
but even if we had transparency from mpd or felt we could trust
them not to collaborate with ice, the overarching security
and privacy concerns associated with alpr pose a major civil
rights issue. The only way to ensure that the
data do not end up in the wrong hands is not to collect it,
investing millions in surveillance technology does not
actually prevent crime or make us safer.
investing in our communities to address the root causes of harm
is the only path forward to a safer d.c. For all.
these problems will not be solved overnight, but I would
like to close with a by no means comprehensive list of actionable
items. Require federal agents operating
in dc to follow the same requirements for public
identification as mpd, including including displaying name, badge
number, and agency information that is not removable and
prohibit face coverings for federal officers in d.c.
require mpd arrest reports to list all officers from all
agencies present during the arrest.
this should include officer names, badge numbers, and
descriptions of their use of force.
close the loophole in the sanctuary values act and finally
end mpd's relationship with floc and all automatic automated
license plate reader technologies.
thank you for your time. Thank you.
ego mclean. Ego mclean.
ego mclean. Yes.
hello. My name is ego mclean.
I live in ward five and I am a student attorney in the movement
lawyering clinic at howard university school of law.
I'm testifying today in place of queen, who can't testify but
will be submitting written testimony in coordination with
the erased the database d.c. Coalition.
I am among the many d.c. Residents deeply concerned about
the destruction of my fellow citizens lives and the upending
of my community through mpd surveillance, targeting,
stalking, and harassment of black and brown dc residents.
aedc also upholds a commitment to transformative and
alternative forms of care and justice.
we work in coalition with decrim, poverty, poverty dcc,
which works to empower dc residents into systems of care
that meet their needs instead of criminalizing them.
I am urging the council to reject not only usage of the
gang database, but its entire existence.
the dc gang database is one part of a larger body of invasive
discriminatory surveillance. It strengthens the school to
prison pipeline, accelerates gentrification, and installs
other harmful systemic barriers to community enjoyment and
enrichment that directly impact black and brown dc residents.
out of the nearly 700 people listed on the database, children
make up almost 20% of the listed individuals, all of those
children being people of color, some as young as one year old.
this racialized surveillance has led to more interactions with
police, impacting those children's futures, either by
placing them on a track to prison or by cutting their lives
short. Technologies like floc,
cellebrite, tangles, shotspotter and others add layers of
surveillance that ensure that once labeled a gang member, mpd
can keep constant tabs on an unknowing person.
such wraparound surveillance increases the likelihood someone
will be trapped in the criminal legal system and a cycle of
poverty. These risks are exacerbated for
those who aren't able to insulate themselves from
surveillance, like unhoused and housing insecure residents.
I have seen over surveillance and punishment tear apart
families as it's torn apart my own.
instead of funding, social services funding went to
surveilling my family members and creating barriers to their
success. Their recidivism was nearly
unavoidable. I know what becomes of those who
are wrongly identified as gang members and as a resident of
ward five, I see the daily harm of surveillance and policing of
black and brown neighborhoods. As a law student, educated in
sociology and an emerging movement lawyer, I recognize
that over surveillance masquerades as a heroic effort
to keep all communities safe, but instead it serves to protect
rigid systems that continue to prey on and punish dc residents
that would benefit from real care and safety, such as drug
checking services, reallocation of funds to health care, and
other comprehensive harm reduction services.
instead of investing into 24/7 surveillance, harassment, and
abuse of black and brown residents, adults and children
alike, we must invest in centers and emergency services that
provide care to those in crisis or on the verge of crisis.
we must focus on funding services that actually empower
residents like on point nyc. Scaling up our 988 number
services, crt and champ services.
services like on point nyc have provided care to those who lack
access to it, instead of criminalizing them.
this is particularly important given the consequences of the
war on drugs and the opioid crisis here in the district.
we demand that the council listen to the voices of black
and brown residents of the district when they tell you how
they are harmed by system you say are meant to care for them.
public safety is not created. I'm sorry to cut you off your
very over time. Okay.
thank you so much. Okay.
mary. Laura, are you mary calhoun?
are you. Yes.
that's me. Hi.
okay. Go ahead.
okay. Thank you.
good afternoon. And thank you for giving me the
opportunity to testify on mpd's performance in the district.
my name is mary laura calhoun. I live in ward four and teach in
ward five at the same school. My own children attend.
today I will tell you about a disturbing recent incident I
witnessed involving metropolitan police officers cooperating with
federal agents. What I am about to tell you
happened in september after trump's federal emergency had
long ended, and we had been told by mayor bowser and the chief of
police that our own police force would no longer be cooperating
with the trump regime regime. School had just finished, and I
had picked up my own kids from their classes.
we were just passing time on the playground when we heard that
law enforcement officers were on the other side of the school,
likely arresting someone for immigration related reasons.
out of concern, I approached the scene while video recording.
when I arrived, I saw several officers from multiple agencies
working together. Fbi, mpd and some others too far
away for me to read their jackets.
they and several police cars were surrounding two men who
were handcuffed and seated in the street.
as I approached from a distance, one mpd officer yelled at me
that simply by being present and, quote, distracting him, I
was, quote, interfering with the scene.
he moved towards me aggressively and demanded that I move to a
specific location, otherwise he would arrest me.
although I knew I was doing nothing unlawful and was within
my rights to observe and record a police encounter in a public
space, I felt scared for my own safety.
the officer used his authority to intimidate me and anyone
nearby from witnessing the arrest.
in that moment, I was scared for my own safety and that of my
family and that of the families of children at my school.
we saw mpd officers hand one of the arrested men to a masked
federal agent who put the man in an unmarked car.
they refused to answer questions of why the men were arrested or
where they were being taken. The fear we all felt in that
moment hasn't left any of us. Of course, families who may be
targeted by immigration enforcement are scared to bring
their children to and from school.
children are worried for their families and even people who may
have previously thought they have no reason to fear.
the police now know that dc's mpd does not exist to keep us
safe, but to intimidate us. When I last testified before
council about this incident in december, council member pinto
said she'd like to have someone from her office follow up with
me. Someone emailed me and asked
where and when the incident occurred, which is information I
provided. The last I heard from council
member pinto's office was an email dated january 13th that
read, only apologies for my late reply, but we have been looking
into this incident and appreciate the details you
provided. I have filed an official
complaint with the office of police complaints.
I was offered mediation and I declined.
I don't feel safe around this officer, and I don't see how
having a private conversation with someone so inclined to
abuse his power would help. The last I heard from opc, the
incident was still being investigated.
I doubt any real consequences have happened and I presume this
officer is still on the force intimidating other law abiding
citizens across the district. Along with d.c., I am asking for
some basic common sense reforms that will make us all safer.
mpd arrests should list all officers from all agencies
present. Mpd should be prohibited from
coordinating with federal agents, repeal local qualified
immunity protections for federal officers.
close the loophole in the sanctuary values act.
no cooperation with the occupation.
thank you. Thank you.
commissioner kim, commissioner paula edwards, are you here?
commissioner paula edwards? Just making sure.
okay. Okay.
thank you very much. Yes, I am here.
I'm sorry. Can you hear me?
go ahead. Thank you.
I'm very sorry. Thank you very much for allowing
me to testify today. I'm paula edwards, commissioner
for anc. 401, and I would like first to
extend my condolences to mrs. Bailey and her family on the
death of her husband. Please implement the
recommendations from open data government and the office of the
d.c. Auditor. Accurate, timely and publicly
accessible information is the only way that our elected
officials can govern equitably and engage in good decision
making that protects the community, defendants and mpd,
ending racially profiled stops and searches, warrantless
arrests, masking of officers and requiring body worn cameras are
other necessities. Necessary reforms needed mpd
must invest in rapidly disseminating clear, accurate,
and timely information to combat the rumors and misinformation
that fill the vacuum. Programs like the community
engagement academy are also very effective.
I thought I had heard enough bombastic rhetoric, bad data,
and demonization to last a while last night.
and then came the hearing today, 163 complaints filed with a
force of 3200 officers does not mean that one third of the
officers have had complaints filed against them.
black people making up 86% of arrests, while black people make
up 40% of residents, does not mean that everyone arrested is a
d.c. Resident. In the case of late mr. Hilton
brown, a wholesale condemnation of the culture of mpd does not
acknowledge the judge's opinion that if it had not been for the
actions and testimony of captain porter of 4d and the detectives
that investigated the case, the officers who tried to cover up
the crime would not have been convicted.
the bombast may play well to the base and enhance fundraising,
but it results in governmental chaos.
this type of rhetoric tends to divide and conflict us at a time
when we should be united, and that is the goal of autocratic
governments. Montgomery county and dc are
reporting similar crime data, but only dc's data is questioned
as manufactured, valid, warranted arrests are being
reported as ice kidnapings in d.c. And maryland and ice dump
of kidnaped children's backpacks was reported in our ward.
except it was a dump of workers backpacks by car thieves who are
preying on those who are most vulnerable to ice.
we have had reports that young people are being lured into
gangs with promises that they and their families will be
protected from ice. Those who need our protection
the most are being separated from law enforcement by fear and
misinformation. And I thank you for the
opportunity to testify. If you have any questions, I'm
available. Thank you very much,
commissioner. And thank you all on this panel
for your testimony sheet. It we are going to call our next
panel. Please accept your invitation to
join as a panelist. Laura fuchs, marie cohen, jenny
wilson, irene jacobs, austin rose, brendan jackson, virginia
spatz, patrick burke, karen gall, edward daniels, edna
boone, afeni evans, naima konate, rebecca gordon, and
mariah burke. Rains.
okay. Mr.
okay. Laura fuchs, are you here?
okay. Marie cohen, child welfare
monitor. There we go.
yeah. Okay.
all right. Great.
thank you. Good afternoon, chairperson
pinto and members of the committee.
my name is marie cohen. I live in ward six and I write
child welfare monitor d.c., a substack about child
maltreatment and child protection in the district.
I never thought of writing about criminal justice until I
realized how many parents and caregivers who kill a child by
abuse or criminal neglect go unpunished.
as part of a study on child maltreatment deaths in the
district, I identified the following seven cases that were
classified as homicides by ocm between 2022 and 2025, and have
apparently been not resulted in any prosecution so far.
storm, serenity frazier, one and a half months old, died on
january 21st, 2022. The cause of death was blunt
trauma of head and neck, fentanyl and heroin toxicity.
the washington post reported that mpd was investigating the
case, but mpd has released no further information on the
investigation. King phelps, seven months old,
died on march 16th, 2023, of complications of blunt force
trauma. Mpd announced in a press release
that it was investigating this death, but has released no
information since that time. Amiri royall bynum, who was two
months old, was pronounced dead on may 27th, 2024.
the cause of death was fentanyl and methamphetamine
intoxication. Mpd announced that it was
investigating amiri's death as a homicide, but has released no
further information on this investigation.
thomas tramposch, age four, was found dead in a car on galloway
street north northeast on june 14th, 2024, one of the hottest
days of the summer. A police spokesman said the
detectives were awaiting autopsy results.
the autopsy, conducted the next day, concluded that thomas died
of hypothermia. Hypothermia and and ruled his
death a homicide. But mpd has released no
information on this case. Jordan ballard, age one, died on
august 23rd, 2024, of multiple blunt force injuries.
mpd announced that it was investigating jordan's death but
has released no further information.
austin antonio oliver, an infant, died of fentanyl
intoxication on august 2nd, 2025.
mpd has released no information about this death.
cairo shaw, an infant, died from blunt force head injuries on
february 2nd, 2024, according to kfs, a fatality report, mpd was
unable to determine the identity of the maltreatment and no
arrest was made. Three times.
I asked mpd for updates on these cases, these cases, but I
received no response. In contrast to these seven
homicides where nobody has been charged, there were only six
child abuse or neglect homicides during the same period that have
resulted in prosecution. It is not acceptable for mpd to
say it is investigating and then never to follow up or answer
questions from the public about the status of an investigation.
just finishing punishing the perpetrators will not bring
these children back, but child killers, like all killers, must
be held accountable. There is something wrong with a
city that is indifferent to the deaths of children due to the
violence or negligence of those who are supposed to love and
protect them. Thank you so much for listening.
and there's more information in my written testimony.
thank you, miss cohen. Jenny wilson.
thank you, chairperson pinto and members of the committee.
my name is jenny wilson and I'm the crisis response team
director for dc safe d.c. Safe is an integral part of the
city's public safety infrastructure, providing 24
seven crisis intervention for domestic violence survivors in
the district. We provide a critical bridge to
safety for survivors who have interacted with police.
with over 13,000 of our referrals to our crisis response
line coming from mpd officers responding to domestic violence
incidents. In addition, mpd is an essential
partner in the lethality assessment project and the
domestic violence system review. Mpd efforts to connect survivors
in a moment of crisis and vulnerability and their
engagement in uplifting the needs of survivors at the
highest risk of serious harm and homicide, are a vital part of
the high risk domestic violence initiative and a valuable tool
to overall survivors safety. Further, their participation in
the domestic violence system review helps elevate the most at
risk cases and consider how to address critical gaps in
addressing domestic violence in the district.
mpd continues to be a valuable and collaborative partner in our
joint efforts to promote safety for survivors.
however, while we remain thankful for the partnership we
maintain with mpd, we know there are opportunities for
improvement and have consistently made
recommendations for many years, such as better data gathering
and analysis on dv calls for service, a more robust and
consistent dv unit, expectations for leadership assigned dv
responsibilities, and a better access for information for
officers who are on the scene of dv calls.
a comprehensive and targeted approach to chronic and
persistent. Develop the capacity for great
collaboration both within and outside the public safety
cluster. We've shared those
recommendations with mpd leadership, your office, the
cdjc, and testimony for the deputy mayor for public safety
and justice. And in past performance,
oversight and budget testimony. We continue to urge the
committee of public safety and mpd to consider how to move
forward with these recommendations.
we recognize that there may be resource constraints that impact
things like creating a more robust dv unit, but
recommendations like reevaluating data for calls for
service, or how frequent calls for service are tracked seem
like they are within reach. If there is a commitment to
improving mpd and the city's response to dv, even simply
publicly reporting crime statistics related to dv in line
with reporting sexual assault data would be a start.
as we have mentioned in other testimony, there has been a
shift in attention to and the city's response to domestic
violence, and we welcome that focus.
but we want to uplift that. There is a strong foundation,
particularly in the work of the high risk domestic violence
initiative and existing pilots and recommendations for an
innovative approach for these efforts to be successful, there
needs to be thoughtful consideration, but also a
sustained commitment of both will and resources.
we also believe strongly that investing in a smart approach to
policing and the city's overall approach to dv pays dividends
over time, both in cost savings and community safety.
thank you for your time and we look forward to any questions.
thank you very much. I want to call eva millstone,
who's here in person. I understand.
great. Welcome.
please go ahead whenever you're ready.
the mic is red. Is it on?
oh good afternoon, chair pinto and members of the committee.
my name is eva millstone. I'm a ward six resident, a dcfs
parent, and the granddaughter of holocaust survivors.
last june, I warned this committee that the fy 26 budget
echoed the authoritarian threats my ancestors faced.
I said then that it was my sacred duty to try to protect
the victims of today. Today, my witness that those
threats are taking root in our city.
every morning in southwest, my children see the national guard
on their way to school. Our city's children are
absorbing the tension of this city.
the sirens masked federal agents, the normalization of
occupation. This is a theft of their
childhood. I see our mpd officers as
neighbors. My family mourned with the first
district when we lost. Officer terry bennett and I
cheered the dozens of officers who cold plunged alongside my
kids for the special olympics last weekend.
I've shown up to first district meetings to brainstorm
solutions. Because this is the mpd.
we strive for a community agency rooted in oversight and
relationship. But after the navy yard incident
on halloween, where our children were chased by military units
with guns less than a mile from my house, I saw how easily that
neighborly bond is shattered by federal entanglement.
federal agents are unnamed, unreachable, and unaccountable.
the so-called d.c. Safe and beautiful task force has eroded
the trust mpd needs to function. In recent months, federal agents
have opened fire during mpd operations, shooting philip
bailey and justin brian nelson and killing julian bailey, the
father and son of the city who we mourn when an mpd supervisor
instructs an officer to omit a federal shooting from a report.
transparency is destroyed. Without transparency, there's no
democracy. This is a home rule crisis.
just as federal urban renewal once raised my neighborhood of
southwest against the will of black and the black and jewish
community, federal public safety is now reshaping our city from
the inside without our consent. Today, a historic coalition is
rising. As a jewish mom, I'm proud to
ally with free d.c. And harriet's wildest dreams to cry
out for justice. We're watching our sanctuary
city become a trap. Immigrants and friends I've
hosted in my home now refuse to enter d.c.
they stay in maryland because of routine traffic.
stop here has become an ice pipeline due to the loophole in
our sanctuary values act. Chair pinto, the safe community,
places and policing amendment act has been sitting since
december. Families cannot wait for
political timing. We're living in fear today.
I'm asking you directly, as a mother, to schedule a hearing
without delay. I urge this committee to close
the sanctuary values act loophole immediately require
full transparency, prohibit face coverings for federal officers,
and require full public identification mandate reporting
every officer present at an arrest, local or federal, must
be named in an official report. I also oppose any appointment of
jeffrey carroll as permanent mpd chief.
I ask you to do the same. D.c. Needs our officers to be on
the side of our communities and our democracy.
carroll's aggressive tactics are the opposite.
accountability and compassion are not opposites.
transparency strengthens. Strengthens trust.
choose our neighbors. Choose oversight.
choose autonomy. Thank you.
thank you very much. Austin rose, public witness.
thank you. Chair pinto.
my name is austin rose. I'm a long time d.c. Resident,
and I'm currently the managing attorney at the mca center for
immigrant rights, which is a nonprofit organization that
represents our detained immigrant neighbors.
in that capacity, I am leading class action litigation in the
d.c. Federal court. Escobar, molina versus dhs that
has challenged warrantless immigration arrests in our city
and secured a permanent injunction to summer that has
reduced those arrests. But through that litigation, I
have learned of several specific concerning examples of mpd
collaboration with ice. I want to highlight two of those
examples, one of which happened in december 2025 and january
2026. So very recently attached to my
testimony, which is public on the website, are the
declarations and the arrest reports of these two
individuals, which are already public through the litigation.
and I encourage you to read these are unequivocal examples.
in addition, a washington post article was just published today
outlining these two stories. First is jose argueta, who has
lived in the united states for more than two decades.
in november 2025, mr. Argueta reported his car stolen to the
police in december, someone purporting to be d.c. Police
called him and instructed him to come into the mpd station.
the fifth district station at 1805 bladensburg road.
and you can see that right on the ice.
arrest report. Mr. Argueta arrived at the
station and inside an mpd station, ice agents,
specifically hcy agents, which part of ice arrested him.
and one of the officers later revealed that they had used a
stolen vehicle. Report that his his report that
his car had been stolen to track him down and to lure him to the
station and months the next month at various ice detention
facilities before he was thankfully released on bond,
which is rare. This is an incredibly troubling
incident that violated clearly one or more provisions of the
sanctuary values act, namely section 74, b and c, in that
mpd. Apparently provided to ice an
individual's personal identifying information and or
granted ice access to a district detention facility or place.
there's also a second example which I don't have time to
cover, but I'm raising this to make clear that there's been
lots of suggestions about new legislation we can pass, and I
applaud those efforts in the future.
but right now, what the d.c. Council can do and what you
chair pinto can do is focus on enforcing the law we already
have, which doesn't need congressional approval.
this is fully under our control, and that law needs to be
implemented. These examples were not
loopholes in the sanctuary values act.
they were blatant defiance of the sanctuary values act.
they were examples of our city authorities actively
facilitating an ice arrest, someone who would not have been
an ice custody absent collaboration.
that's unacceptable and it must end.
so I encourage the council to act with vigorous oversight,
including questions of the mpd chief later today.
thank you. Thank you very much, sir rose,
and we certainly will be asking those questions.
brendan jackson, public witness. Good afternoon, chair pinto and
committee members. My name is brandon jackson and I
live in ward three. I'm testifying today to voice my
concern over how mpd makes our city less safe for those who
live, work, and visit, wasting limited resources that could be
more effectively used. Increasing safety through
meeting community needs. With my limited time, I would
like to focus on mpd's continued collaboration with federal
agencies, enabled by this government's inaction.
since returning to d.c. Control, mpd has been involved in at
least three shootings by federal agencies in their continued
support of the harassment and abduction of community members,
and committed two murders of their own.
mpd refuses transparency and lies about the violence they
commit and abet. This council has been passive,
going only so far as toothless letter writing giving up when
told to pound sand by a department whose purse strings
they hold. If the council is concerned that
pushing back on trump will threaten home rule, have they
not learned that trump cannot be appeased through concessions?
I would further ask of what use is the power to self-govern if
we refuse to use it to protect our community?
while the council has limited control over federal agencies
operating in the district, it is in their power to stop using our
resources to help them violate our rights and harm our
neighbors. The obvious place to start would
be to end all collaboration with federal agencies in their
kidnaping spree. That means no more mpd making
arrests for ice, no more resource sharing, and no more
information sharing. Without a warrant.
the council should also get creative and learn from other
jurisdictions to further limit and challenge federal agencies
where they can. The council should use their
powers under the sanctuary values act to release data on
how many people have been abducted, the conditions they're
held under and the sorry they're held under, and the information
and assistance requested by and shared with feds.
mpd should no longer be allowed to hide the identities of the
agents they have been supporting, and officers who
commit violence and abuse power. I ask the council to reject the
appointment of jeffrey carroll as police chief.
as assistant chief, he oversaw a culture of white supremacy and
sexism, and his interim chief. He has continued collaborating
with feds and withholding information.
I would also like to raise the alarm over mpd's acquisition of
surveillance technologies. You wouldn't want a stranger
going through your phone or following you down the street,
and the only way to ensure this data is not abused by mpd or
anyone else, is to not collect it in the first place.
while our city fails to meet the material, educational and social
needs of our neighbors, it cannot be safe supporting a
cruel project in a vain attempt to appease a wannabe dictator
can only make us less safe. Yeah.
thank you, mr. Jackson. Virginia spatz to patrick burke,
executive director of the dc police foundation.
were you calling? This is virginia spatz.
did you call me or someone else? I did, I'm sorry.
I didn't see you. Virginia spatz, public witness.
please go ahead, and then we'll turn to you.
mr. Burke. Okay.
as I, I am virginia spatz. I have lived for nearly 40 years
in ward six and worked over the years and served as a freelance
reporter in other parts of the city.
my testimony, the written submission, and this kind of
condensed version is informed by that background as well as by
the work of d.c. Justice lab free dc project, harriet's
wildest dreams, and other experts on issues of judiciary
and policing. However, I am speaking for
myself. I am more worried for my
neighbors than for myself or my spouse.
despite my privileges in interacting or avoiding law
enforcement, however, I have been impacted deeply by the
cooperation of our city's police department with federal law
enforcement agencies. I feel far less safe on our
streets and in the metro than in the 40 years before, and I am
now afraid to call police for any reason.
I call on this committee and the council to move beyond tepid
responses and stand up for the needs and rights of the
district. The district has always been at
the mercy of national politics, in which we have little say.
the president's creation of that dc safe and beautiful task force
last march is one example, and trump's declaration of that
crime emergency in august is another.
recruitment for the dc task force, which, on asking people
to apply to become part of it, is really terrifying.
it dehumanizes urban residents here and around the country,
while encouraging applicants to join the agency of your dreams
like they were engaging in some sort of violent role playing
game. This has disturbing and deadly
consequences. The task force has brought
shootings, automobile chases, and threats to young people into
the district. In addition, we are now grieving
five black men whose deaths are directly linked to the safe and
beautiful task force or to place within that context, julian
bailey, aaron williams, david childs, demetrius alston and
kevin booker. The federal government is not
solely to blame for the multi-agency incursion into our
neighborhoods. However, our own metropolitan
police department, including interim chief carroll, has
actively supported the task force.
mayor bowser's own order normalized and applauded it.
and this council and this committee in action and inaction
has further endangered the district.
while the dc while dc sovereignty is limited in some
ways, the council does have the power to restrict how federal
agents operate. Here.
I join in calling for specific restrictions and to enact the
full accountability and arrest reporting emergency amendment
act of 2026 and also join in asking you to refuse to make
jeffrey carroll's appointment permanent.
while many in our city do mourn and organize in the face of
growing loss of life and dire threat to public safety, many
others, including leaders, have been supporting and normalizing
egregious attacks on our city's well-being.
we need you to take steps available to you and take them
now. Thank you.
thank you. Patrick burke, executive
director of dc police foundation.
good afternoon, chairwoman pinto and members of the committee.
I'm patrick burke, and just quickly, the dc police
foundation was formed to bring together business, professional,
civic, nonprofit organizations and individuals to promote
public safety by providing financial and in-kind resources
to the chief of police and mpd. Our goal is to make washington,
dc a safer place to live, work, and visit for everyone, and I
appreciate the opportunity to testify before you today.
I've been watching the entire testimony, and I appreciate the
passion, and I know there's a lot of conflict, especially with
increased federal intervention in the city.
as retired assistant chief for mpd and the former u.s. Marshal
for dc, I've served in a law enforcement capacity for over
half my life, and I'm honored to work with chief carroll and our
community to continue to serve and working to make our city
safer. And first of all, I want to say
I've submitted my testimony, so I'm going to deviate from that.
and a lot of the work that we do and the police foundation is
working with youth and especially keeping minority
youth out of the criminal justice system, working with mpd
officers. And one of the biggest
challenges has been with the decreased staffing is fewer
officers to work on caseloads for detectives to spend time
with, youth to spend time with victims, and that that takes
away from a lot of the community empowering activities that mpd
officers have. So we we strongly encourage full
staffing of the mpd and working to retain these officers that we
work so hard to bring into mpd. We train them and then
unfortunately, we're losing so many to other agencies.
but with my brief amount of time beyond talking through the
programs that we offer with mpd, I want to just say to the
officers and obviously for people watching today, it's not
a great recruiting video. And first of all, I know when
d.c. With opc, internal affairs and a number of avenues, if
people feel that they're treated unfairly by mpd and I've seen
this around the country, around the world, there are many
avenues to pursue. If you have a complaint.
there's a lot of anecdotal stories out here, but if you
have a complaint, come forward, make it and people will be dealt
with. And we absolutely want anyone
held accountable. And I also want to say thank you
to all the police officers if you're watching this, it's a
tough hearing to watch, but I want to thank you, the men and
women that are out there every day putting your lives on the
line. I want to thank the widow and
the son of terry bennett, who we lost recently in mpd, and I know
the dangerous work that that you men and women are doing every
single day. And I want to thank you and let
you know that I appreciate you. And there's a whole lot of
people throughout dc and beyond that appreciate the work you do.
god bless and be safe. Thank you, mr. Burke.
karen gall, chairwoman and public safety director of three
dcc third district citizens advisory council.
can you hear me? I'm.
I guess we can. Okay.
good afternoon, chairwoman pinto.
my name is karen gall. I am the third district citizens
advisory council chairwoman and public safety director, and also
anc 105 committeewoman serving here in ward one.
I have a cold, so bear with me for 45 years, three dcac has
been on the organizing community voice for approximately 180,000
residents across eight police service areas in the third
district. Public safety is only as strong
as the community infrastructure, supporting it.
enforcement matters, accountability matters, and data
matters, but enforcement alone cannot close the trust gap, and
it cannot sustain safety. When community confidence is
weakened. We acknowledge the reported 29%
decrease in violent crime, that progress matters, and we
appreciate the work behind it. But progress is fragile.
when federal interference, unclear coordination, and
inconsistent communications erode trust at the neighborhood
level. When trust is damaged, bonds are
broken. People hesitate to report
witnesses. Go quiet, victims disengage, and
businesses lose confidence. Chairperson pinto the bill you
introduced yesterday is is just what our communities need.
it reflects what residents have been saying in our meetings and
on our block. Three dcac has documented 47
incidents involving mpd and federal court effect and federal
coordination affecting civil rights in our communities.
these are not abstract numbers. Behind each incident is a
resident, family or business owner who no longer knows
whether calling for help will lead to protection, confusion or
harm. That is why we're here.
three dcc is bringing concern, documentation and organized
community evidence. We are your evidence and we are
your implementation partner to who?
and because we believe in community policing for mpd, we
respectfully urge five actions. First, expedite the permanent
chief appointment by q2 2026. Also, because we need to have
stable leadership and it strengthens the accountability
and public confidence. Second, published a protocol
required under section 740 because residents and partners
deserve a clear standard for how coordination works.
third, fund block captain training for fy 2026 because
prevention and readiness at the block level reduces calls, it
rebuilds trust for service and it stabilizes the corridors.
fourth fund, a pastoral clergy coalition for replication
because trusted messengers help prevent escalation and restore
trust after incidents. Fifth, require clear
identification and complete arrest documentation when
federal officers operate in dc. Because transparency is the
foundation of lawful coordination, federal officers
should should follow mpd public identification rules.
mpd reports should list every officer from every agency
present, and mpd should not coordinate enforcement in
sensitive locations like schools, health care facilities.
yes, ma'am. You're over time.
sorry. Thank you.
thank you very much. Edward daniels here.
edna boone. Hey.
have you heard from naima konate, youth leader, d.c. Girls
coalition and youth for justice. Good afternoon.
my name is naima and I'm here representing d.c. Coalition and
youth for justice. I live in ward four, and when I
walk around my community, I should be able to feel safe
without fear of being intimidated.
no one should have to worry about being stopped or
questioned by federal agents or ice, along with all the other
law enforcement agencies currently occupying d.c.
I should be able to walk with my friends without being profiled
or harassed. Everyone deserves to feel secure
in their own community, regardless of who they are or
what they look like. As a lifelong washingtonian, I
have both the right and responsibility to speak out
against the injustices in my city, especially when they
impact you. Young people should be able to
leave their homes freely and enjoy public spaces without
fear. They should.
they should have the right to gather with their friends, walk
in groups, and express themselves without being
unfairly targeted. As a member of the young people
in washington, d.c., we deserve. We deserve opportunities to grow
outside of our homes without being met with suspicion or
hostility. We need to build a community
where young people, as well as others, feel safe.
and safety is not only is not determined by their appearance,
age, or background. Instead of increased law
enforcement presence, we should invest in support for youth, not
violence, by empowering young people and fostering trust, we
can create a city where everyone feels safe and valued.
thank you. Thank you very much, rebecca
gordon. Yes.
hello, chair pinto and committee members.
my name is rebecca gordon. I live in ward one and I'm
testifying today about mpd's collaboration with ice and other
federal police and reducing overpolicing and unnecessary
surveillance. My testimony is informed by my
direct observation in my community and my many years of
work on violence as a public health issue, both I and my
neighbors have seen mpd collaborate with federal police,
including irs, dhs, secret service, and the dea.
these agents show up en masse to mpd.
calls are on their own for nonviolent calls and minor
issues such as transit stops harassing unhoused people and
metro enforcement. They kidnap our neighbors and
attack bystanders. The collaboration targets the
most marginalized and criminalized, making dc less
safe. It decreases community trust in
mpd and the kidnapings of over 1000 dc neighbors by ice and the
killing of julian bailey and others are the horrific and
racist results I have other written testimony that I will
submit, but I want to use some of my time to address the
guesstimated number of complaints that was shared by
interim mpd chief carroll today, limited police complaints
certainly do not reflect the extent of the harms ranging from
harassment and general decreased safety to kidnapings
disappearances and killings. I know from my experience with
complaints reporting systems for gender based violence and
violence against children, as well as violence in communities,
that violence is always underreported.
this is particularly true for institutional systems, including
reporting of violence by the police, distrust of reporting
systems, and the institutions that manage them also decrease
reporting. Even the increased complaints to
mpd discussed at the outset of this hearing will not reflect
the extent to which community members are experiencing,
observing and raising complaints about mpd in public or the
violence they are experiencing. If a dc citizen is harassed by
mpd or an officer. Threatens to turn her over to
ice, who is she going to report to?
will she trust the police to investigate?
if I observe ice with mpd and the city government has done
nothing, why would I report ice to a police mechanism?
as we have heard already, is particularly likely to
immigrants, unhoused people, black people and survivors of
domestic violence and sexual violence will fear reporting.
calling these stories anecdotal is minimizing when there are
already more reports in this hearing than noted at the
outset. As karen gall and others have
noted, the violence dc residents experience goes far, far beyond
this and must be stopped. Federal police unnecessarily
joining mpd and the collaboration has been a waste
of funds that promotes unnecessary stops and arrests,
disappearances and violence. It increases institutionalized
pathways for violence against immigrants, criminalization and
transference to ice, and promotes an unsafe city.
I echo the request of d.c., harriet's wildest dreams and
others about reducing federal collaboration and mpd oversight
in general, ending the collaboration with the safe and
beautiful task force, not confirming interim police chief
carroll and enforcement of the sanctuary values act, including
officers, federal officers working with mpd and operating
in the city needing to show personal identification.
thank you for your time. Thank you.
mariah burke rains, public witness.
chair, pinto and members of the committee.
thank you for allowing me to testify today.
my name is maria burke. I'm a native washingtonian, a
ten year resident of ward five, and a supporter of harriet's
wildest dreams. I'm here because I'm deeply
concerned about mpd's collaboration with federal law
enforcement agencies, and I want you to take immediate action.
we know that allowing mpd to learn from and coordinate with
trump's federal detention machine has created an
incredibly dangerous situation for our people.
it puts us all, but especially black people, brown people, and
people who are immigrants in daily mortal danger.
mpd and trump's federal officers are showing up around the city
in large numbers and full force, intimidating washingtonians,
making a show of arrests, kidnaping people and killing
people. They're ignoring the law, lying
about incidents and refusing to take accountability.
since the occupation began, I have spent my mornings and
afternoons holding the broken hearts of two children,
navigating the trauma of their father's kidnaping and long term
detention by ice. I've seen mpd, fbi, and homeland
security in tactical gear all show up for a single person
having a medical emergency. I've seen fbi deploy flash bang
grenades during a traffic stop, as if washingtonians are enemy
combatants. I feared for my children's
school community as ice targets teachers and families on their
way to school. I've watched the lockup list at
the d.c. Jail surge to over 100 people almost daily, and I've
watched with horror as children celebrating halloween were
chased, terrorized and arrested by national guard and mpd and
navy yard. We have collectively mourned
julian bailey, a beloved father and husband murdered in dc by
u.s. Marshals just two weeks ago.
and we've mourned kevin booker, demetrius alston and darren
warren childs all loved community community members who
either died in mpd custody or were shot and killed by mpd in
november. The horrors are truly endless,
both on the surface of it and at its core.
we're talking about a deliberate fascist advancement of state
sanctioned violence against d.c. People.
we're talking about the psychological torture, physical
brutalization and murder of black, black and brown folks.
and that's the inescapable truth of it.
I do not accept for a second that this is a necessary
reality, and I do not accept that you are powerless to
mitigate it. I understand that this council
doesn't control federal agencies, but there are many
steps that you can take to limit how mpd assists federal agents,
which others have already laid out today and which are included
in my written testimony. I also implore you to reject the
appointment of jeffrey carroll as mpd chief.
he's a known white supremacist apologist and a grave, grave
danger to our community. Washingtonians are going to
continue to protect one another from militarized police in our
communities. While mayor bowser has sold out
to fascist dictates, you still have a great number of ways to
stand in solidarity with the people.
stop complying in advance, and do not cede any more ground.
otherwise, trump's fascist regime will know that their
power here is free to go unchecked.
thank you for your time. Thank you.
kristi matthews, kristy matthews jones yes, I'm here.
please go ahead. Good afternoon, council member
pinto and members of the judiciary committee.
my name is kristi matthews jones, and I'm the director of
dc girls coalition. Dc girls coalition works to
elevate and amplify the voices of young girls of color, women
of color, and gender nonconforming people of color in
dc. Composed of youth serving
organizations and advocacy, we are led by our youth advisory
board, made up of young girls and gender nonconforming people
of color. Today, I will speak about some
of the concerns we've heard from young people about mpd and
overpolicing of young people of color.
there has been an increase in interactions between police
officers and young people since the city implemented youth
curfews and more aggressive manner.
127 young people were taken to is due to the juvenile curfew.
young people have been targeted and harassed for simply trying
to get home from school, work, programing and or events.
this has led to a distrust of police officers among young
people. We often hear about police, how
police should be seen as resources, but unfortunately for
many young people, they are a source of great pain and
distress and we need to be creating space for young people
to grow, learn and develop into adults who can lead the world.
instead, we're making investments into targeting,
criminalizing and intimidating young people in very harmful
ways. Last august, when the youth
curfew was implemented, dc girls coalition, along with many other
organizations, created safe spaces and had held various
meetings with young people to express what their concerns
were. We held a youth assembly where
we had over 40 young people come together with grave concerns
about the overpolicing that they had already been experienced and
the increase that they were going to be experiencing with
the new curfew and the hot zones.
our young people talked a lot about being harassed, just
simply walking through the neighborhood, trying to get home
feeling very unsafe, feeling very targeted, and the safe
spaces that we held were opportunity for them to feel
safe being and experience joy turning.
being under 18 into a crime directly impacts young people's
ability to develop in who they are.
I know I'm running out of time and I will submit my written
testimony. I just want to say in closing,
that we need to stop making investments in criminalizing
young people, and we need to start making investments into
creating resources and programing for them to address
whatever needs they might need. If we continue to teach young
people that they are, quote unquote the problem, then that's
going to be what the society that we create.
I've worked with young people for a lot of years.
I've held multiple events, and my experience has always been
that young people are the future, and they do have the
ability to see things through. We need to create the
opportunity for them to do that, and we are very concerned about
the national guard and the overpolicing that we're seeing
in d.c. I know I'm over time, so I will
end there, and I welcome any questions.
thank you very much. That concludes our public
witnesses for today's hearing. I want to thank you all very
much for being here today, both those of you who are in person
and online, and for submitting your written testimony and being
a part of this process. I know there's a lot of feeling
of fear and frustration and want to just thank you all for and
anger, and thank you all for sharing your stories, your
perspectives, your ideas. Those ideas have shaped a lot of
the questions that we've been able to ask mpd, the legislation
that I introduced yesterday, came directly from the hearing
that we had from public witnesses about their
experiences in december. So thank you for being part of
the process, and we will continue our effort.
I'm going to call our government witnesses now.
interim mpd chief jeffrey carroll and team, you all can
come in. If I can ask folks, I think
there are some available chairs if we're able to try to provide
a row for mpd team, as they may be assisting in answering
questions for our government witnesses, that would be
helpful. There's still room in the flow
over space as well, but there's some seats over here.
there's some seats in the back. There.
yep, that's all. Good.
so absolutely no. I'll be.
so we got this all that because we need to make some room for
our government witnesses who are here to testify.
and thanks to all the community organizers across dc.
thank you all for coming. Thank you.
thank you for coming. Thank you.
thank you. Chief, is there anyone sitting
up at the table with you? Okay.
okay. Is everybody all our officers
don't have seats yet. There's a seat over here.
yeah. Okay.
we're going to bring some chairs on the side.
thank you so much, larry. And marquez.
she's upstairs. So I came down here first.
yeah. Okay, mpd folks, there's some
extra chairs here. Are you sure?
okay, how about here on the side?
okay, okay. Well, thank you very much,
chief, for being here. I want to also recognize we've
been joined by my at large colleague, councilmember
christina henderson. Thank you for joining us.
and, chief, as you know, it is the tradition of this committee
to swear in all government witnesses who appear before it.
if you can, please turn on your microphone and raise your right
hand. Do you swear or affirm under
penalty of law that the testimony you're about to
provide before this committee and the council of the district
of columbia is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the
truth, I do great. Well, thank you very much for
being here. And thank you to your entire
team who's here and all of the hard working mpd officers who
work throughout the year on behalf of the district of
columbia. We appreciate all that.
you all do. I'd like to invite you now to
make any opening statement that you may have.
thank you ma'am. Good afternoon, chairperson
pinto, members of the committee, everyone here today and those
watching remotely. My name is jeffrey carroll, and
I'm the interim chief of police for the metropolitan police
department. I'm honored and grateful that
mayor bowser selected me to serve as the interim chief of
police and to be here representing the department that
I have served for over 23 years. I grew up in maryland, and I
learned about mpd from my uncle, who also had a long career with
mpd. I've served half my career in
patrol in the first, third, and sixth districts and rose to the
rank of commander for the third district.
I've also worked in and led the special operations division, the
homeland security bureau, the internal affairs bureau, most
recently, I served as the executive assistant chief for
specialized operations, overseeing homeland security,
internal affairs, investigations, technical
support and professional development.
my experience with mpd has given me the opportunity to learn
about this vibrant city, and about most every function in the
department. One thing that I've learned is
that mpd has two essential assets in our work to promote
public safety in d.c., our engaged community members and
dedicated employees. I appreciate all the community
members who are active partners in public safety, whether
they're attending meetings, joining mpd on community walks,
emailing officials, or testifying before the council.
I recognize that community members can and do have
different visions and definitions of public safety.
that's why it's important that we hear from our residents and
businesses so we can continue to try to meet the different and
sometimes competing visions. I look forward to working
closely with the community, as well as our dc agencies and our
elected city leaders to keep dc safe, strong and united.
to the men and women of metropolitan police department,
I'd like to say thank you. Your dedication,
professionalism, and sacrifice were on prominent display as
2025 brought many demands to dc and the metropolitan police
department from major events such as the 60th presidential
inauguration, world pride dc and the us army 250th anniversary
parade to the tragic mid-air collision of the army helicopter
and the commercial plane over the potomac.
mpd members have worked to support and protect dc through
the good and the bad. This year, in the midst of this
heavy workload, mpd and dc were able to reach several positive
milestones. In 2025, violent crime fell 29%,
including a 32% reduction in homicides to 127, the fewest
since 2017. Fewer homicides allows our
detectives to focus on their investigations, leading to an
85% homicide closure rate, the highest since 2011.
the clearance rate for dc code index violent crimes increased
20 percentage points in two years.
the number of people who were struck by gunfire decreased 35%.
district roads were safer in 2025, with carjackings cut in
half and traffic fatalities dropping to its lowest level
since 2012. While these numbers are
significant, what's really important is how it translates
to lives saved and communities protected.
compared to 2024, there were 60 fewer homicides and 27 fewer
traffic fatalities. There were 253 fewer people shot
in a crime in 2025. Hospitals reported similar to
climb in firearm injury data, which helps to free up emergency
rooms for other healthcare needs of the community.
these improvements mean fewer families, fewer children
impacted by violence. This is the progress in our
communities that we must work together to sustain.
this year, I will remain focused on combating crime and working
with our community partners to support safe and thriving
communities. While there were some notable
successes in 2025, I wanted to highlight some concerning
indicators for young people in dcc last year.
although the number of people shot in the district fell by
more than a third, there were six additional youth shot in
2025 when compared to 2024. Juvenile arrests for homicide
and robbery decreased, but arrests for assault, arrest for
assault with a dangerous weapon, aggravated assault, simple
assault and illegal gun possession all increased.
in addition, several communities experienced the negative impact
of large groups of youth. Up to 100 or more participants
intent on disruptive and sometimes criminal behavior.
these were not just spontaneous gatherings with boisterous kids.
the crowds were often promoted by social media postings for
teen takeovers, encouraging attendees to bring their own
alcohol and marijuana. The incidents include massive
brawls running through businesses and restaurants,
jumping on tables and damaging property.
this was particularly dangerous when crowds were running through
traffic and banging on cars. At least one youth was struck by
a vehicle and one driver ended up in the hospital after he got
out of the car and fought with the youth, residents and
businesses alike in the affected areas voiced their alarm,
prompting mayor bowser to propose emergency legislation
and the council to enact a juvenile curfew.
emergency amendment act. We appreciate the support from
chair pinto and the council in responding quickly to this
emerging challenge. The legislation expanded curfew
ages and hours and authorized the chief of police to establish
juvenile curfew zones. Former chief smith's use of
these zones was limited, with 15 zones declared each lasting four
days or less. No juveniles were arrested in a
zone during the active hours from 8 to 11 p.m.
most young people we encounter in the zones voluntarily comply
with the law, either dispersing into groups of eight or fewer or
simply leaving the zone in two zones.
19 youth were detained and transported home or to a drop
off center operated by irs that focuses on connecting at risk
youth and their amilies with services.
in short, the legislation produced the desired outcome
with narrowly tailored periods of enforcement and increased
community safety while decreasing at risk behavior by
youth without increasing juvenile arrests.
given the trends in 2025, we need to make sure that we are
all working together to discourage at risk behavior.
mpd has many efforts to advance this goal.
working with youth of all ages, officer friendly and badger bear
helped to build positive relationships with our young
people. We engaged middle and high
school aged youth in longer programs like junior cadets or
youth creating change to help build social and life skills.
mpd hosts programs and activities to engage in support
families, including food and clothing drives, holiday events
and beat the streets. And as the interim chief, I'm
readily meeting with the youth advisory board and I'm looking
to learning more from them, mpd's juvenile investigative
response unit is also working to strengthen partnerships with
schools, investigate pattern offenses that seem to be stemmed
by juveniles, and engaging families to deter offending.
mpd's investigative services bureau has worked to prevent
several team takeovers when they became aware of social media
posts organizing a takeover. Members were able to engage with
the youth and family to have them take down the posts.
in 2026, mpd will be continuing our efforts to support youth
while working with our partners to ensure that the appropriate
accountability for justice involved youth looking inward.
one of the most critical challenges isn't related to
crime. It's the continued downward
slide in sworn staffing for a persistent problem.
we currently have 3144 sworn members.
this is about 660 fewer members. And right before the pandemic,
or the equivalent of losing the staffing of more than two police
districts. Unfortunately, for fiscal year
2025 was the seventh year in a row with separations outpaced
new hires. This is happening even though
the separations have reached a lowest level in more than a
decade, with both resignations and retirements hitting new
lows. Although the department has made
progress on retention, the recruitment challenges are
systematic. First, the good news the cadet
program has become the strong hiring pipeline that we
envisioned in the past five years.
155 cadets rolled over to become recruits, approximately one
fifth of all recruits hired over that time.
mpd also has one of the fastest hiring processes of major police
departments and applicants, and new hires rate highly for
professional development opportunities.
however, it's increasingly difficult to compete against
other jurisdictions and departments to recruit new
members. For example, most agencies are
competing against have a lower entry level requirements.
a year ago, arlington, montgomery county and mpd were
the only jurisdictions in the region requiring applicants to
have more than a high school diploma or ged.
since then, montgomery county has dropped their college
requirement credit, credit requirement, although arlington
still requires the credit, it's better work life balance and
requires jurisdiction is a draw for some applicants.
and on july 1st, 2026, the arlington starting salary was
increased from $72,000 to $90,000 in comparison to mpd
starting salary of approximately $75,000.
on the other hand, although federal agencies may still
require college credits, they are also offering hiring bonuses
ranging from $50,000 to $70,000, more than twice of mpd's $25,000
bonus. This is not drawing not only new
recruits, but also mpd officers who resign.
I know they're always competing priorities in the district's
budget, so we're working on low or no cost legislative proposals
with council support that would expand our hiring pipeline.
looking ahead to summer of 2026 is going to be one of the
busiest in dc for decades. As the country celebrates its
250th birthday. The district is expected to host
numerous events, including a two week great american state fair,
a landmark 4th of july celebration, the grand prix race
and more events to come. Although the three issues trends
with youth sworn staffing and the upcoming summer celebrations
may seem unrelated, they're all connected.
while we're excited to play a role in this historic
celebration, there will be unprecedented demands on the
department and our members. The historically low staffing
has driven record overtime hours as fewer officers have to work,
have to work more hours to meet the demands.
higher overtime puts a strain on officer well-being and their
families. I've made it a priority to
identify ways to reduce local overtime while maintaining our
positive progress on crime reduction.
we've seen some initial successes, with a 22% reduction
in overtime hours for the most recent pay period when compared
to the same period last year. This is only a start, but I hope
to be able to alleviate some of the strain before the summer
events begin. This will be impacted by what we
see in our neighborhoods during the spring and summer.
the curfew legislation also is set to expire on april 15th,
right before spring break. I hope the council will consider
retaining this proactive tool to help both protect our
communities and young residents. In closing, as I look at the
past year, I'm excited about what we can accomplish this
year. Mpd will continue to focus on
community based policing, accountability, and proactive
problem solving. We'll work to strengthen trust,
improve transparency, and ensure that every person feels safe,
heard, and respected. With that, I'll open up to any
questions. Ma'am, thank you so much.
thank you chief, and I'm going to ask everybody as a reminder
to please. Allow us to have a conversation
with the chief. We're all going to treat each
other with respect in here. And if if we can't, I'm going to
have to ask you to leave. So let's let's keep the peace,
and I'll be in here. I know many of you have been
waiting all day to hear the testimony, so let's let's do
that. Thank you very much for your
testimony. And congratulations on the
reduction in crime that mpd has led over the last several years.
I want to ask you to kind of take us back to last spring in
the establishment of the safe and beautiful task force.
what was the communication like to mpd and who serves on that
task force today? Sure.
so in the springtime, I believe the president signed an
executive order. I believe it was in march of
last year. And during that time frame, mpd
wasn't really involved with the task force operations there.
I believe there was a 1 or 2 executive orders, one related to
the national guard and one related to the overall task
force that was signed at that point in time, mpd wasn't
involved with the task force. It wasn't until I believe it was
august of last year when we actually became involved in task
force operations after the federal government started
deploying resources on their own.
without mpd support. And excuse me for one moment,
let me just remind my colleagues who have joined us, we're going
to have 15 minute rounds, and our order is going to be pinto
henderson, robert white, lewis, george and parker.
okay. Oh, thank you, thank you so
much. Great.
and counselor crawford. Okay.
okay. And so you said that you weren't
really involved in those conversations.
when did you become involved? So it was I believe it was
august of last year when mpd actually got involved.
that's after the president started to deploy resources from
the federal government across the city without mpd assistance
or involvement. And so that was the first time
mpd started attending task force meetings.
yes, the task force had started, and they had actually the u.s.
marshals had been put in charge of the task force operations by
the federal government. So it was in august when we were
brought into it. Okay.
and are you the representative for mpd at these task force
meetings? Yes, I have been the
representative, along with some other members, both of the
executive staff and the command staff.
okay. And what is the stated mission
of this task force? It's a task force that was
established by by the president to I think their stated mission
is to keep dc safe and beautiful.
okay. So so it aligns with the title.
yes, ma'am. And august was when the
president declared the public emergency.
how how have things changed in the operations of the task force
since after september 9th, when the emergency ended?
sure. So once the the emergency began,
obviously mpd was was fully integrated.
since that time, as time has gone on, task force operations
have have migrated a bit or changed a bit.
initially there was a big push of federal officers that you'd
see across the community, each huge contingents.
as time has gone on, there's been work to take the federal
agencies and push them more into investigative areas or areas
where they may have more experience and operational in
there. There still is a contingent of
what they call proactive teams that are integrated or that work
with the crime suppression teams across the police districts.
but the numbers of those, those personnel have shrunk down,
while the investigative folks have increased.
so, for example, like the us marshals, they they lead the
capital area regional fugitive task force.
that's something they did before this.
but now they have additional resources that are doing more
warrant enforcement, working with the criminal apprehension
unit over at the violent crime suppression division and other
federal agencies to enhance that, because that's their area
of expertise. Or the dea is working more
closely and providing more resources with other federal
agencies with their violent crime suppression division to
address narcotics operations. So really, that area where those
agencies have that that special skill set is the areas they're
going to to try to beef that up. And then of course, there is the
proactive part that still is a portion of that, but it's much
smaller now than what it was when it began.
have you tracked those numbers since it started in august, of
which how many agents are here from which agency?
so we don't track the numbers the federal government has does
track the numbers. The numbers have stayed fairly
consistent. They've kind of gone down over
time, I'd say, but it's not something mpd tracks how many
that they have. How do you know if it's gone
down, if we haven't tracked the federal government tracks it so
the feds, the marshals track the us marshals, okay.
and do they provide that information to mpd?
they push it out to the agencies involved in the task force.
yes, ma'am. Okay.
and do you know how often they're tracking that?
is that on a weekly basis, a daily basis?
they put out a daily report, but they also put out a weekly
report. They have a variety of reports
that they put out. Okay.
and it includes which agents are here from which agency does it
also include arrest data. So there's a daily report that
has arrest data and numbers of personnel.
okay. And is mpd a part of collecting
that data when you are on the scene of an arrest, when there
is also another federal agent there.
so we aren't collecting the data, but arrest data is pushed
to the jock where the the marshals imt that's their
incident management team is at. So that information from all the
agencies goes to one central place.
but in the event that mpd is on the scene where an arrest is
being made, are you all recording that arrest data?
only if we make the arrest. Only if mpd itself makes the
arrest. Yes.
okay. And regardless of which agency
makes the arrest, whether it's mpd or a federal agency, that
information then rolls up to the jock.
yes, it goes to the incident management team and the jock.
it's also irregardless of if the arrest happens in the district
or not. And what I mean by that is, for
example, park police, if they were to make an arrest in
maryland, that number would also go to the imt for inclusion in
their overall numbers. Okay.
so as you know, the council passed a law in 2021 that limits
the district's ability to share immigration information about
individuals who are in mpd custody or actively support
certain immigration enforcement efforts absent a judicial
warrant or order. Is it mpd's policy that you
follow that law? Yes, it is absolutely.
policy always is. We follow the sanctuary values
act. It's their mpd officers are not
allowed to share information once they're inside custody.
we're not allowed to turn them over to federal agencies.
we're not allowed to inquire into their immigration status.
that's in the law. Are you aware of any cases over
the last six months that that law has been violated by mpd
officers? I am not aware of any.
you're under oath. You're under oath.
everybody, please, please don't make me remind you again.
we're going to have this conversation.
we cannot have call outs from the audience.
we asked in our pre-hearing questions whether executive
order 25 005 regarding immigration enforcement was
still in effect. And your response was, yes.
so why is that order still in place?
if mpd's policy is that we do not coordinate with immigration
enforcement? Sure.
so, executive that executive order brings clarity so that
executive order is not in contrast to the law.
it specifically talks about what mpd officers can do prior to
individuals being in custody. So there is no conflict between
the executive order and the law. It was actually to make sure
there was clarity for the officers and not to put them in
a situation where there wasn't. They were unclear what to do.
can you elaborate a little more on that and what that means
prior to being in custody? Yeah.
so prior so if you're not in police custody, then the
questions can be asked. Once you're in custody, the law
is very clear and specific about once you're in custody, we can
share no information with federal immigration authorities.
and at no time can we inquire about immigration status.
so prior to being in custody, the law does not prohibit that
at this time. And how is in custody defined.
so that would be like you're under arrest.
you're in police custody okay. So before someone is under
arrest, there can be questions asked about immigration status.
and there can be a transference of somebody not by mpd, by other
agencies. Mpd will never inquire to
anyone's immigration status. Other agencies can.
so for example, if we had a traffic stop, the person wasn't
in custody and we have information we could share that
with a federal agency. If that person is placed under
arrest for a crime, at that point, we can no longer share
anything based on the law. Okay, okay.
and so can you provide an example of how this works in
practice, where information would be shared about someone's
immigration status prior to an arrest being made?
yes. So the really we wouldn't be
sharing information about their immigration status because we
don't have that. Right.
so we would be sharing information.
so what could happen is there could be a person on the scene
from another federal agency. I'll give you an example of
marshal service marshals historically don't have title
eight authority, which is immigration enforcement
authority. However, now they do so they
could be on the scene with us. We could do a traffic stop for a
broken taillight. We could have a driver's
license. We could be running the
information. The marshal could take that
information. They could run it through
whatever databases that they have related to that, and then
they can come back with an immigration response and they
could take action. Okay, okay.
sorry, sorry. That's okay.
okay. And when you say that the us
marshal use I don't want to put words in your mouth, but you
said something like they used to not do this, but now they can.
is that formal authority that they've been deputized by this
task force, that they can handle immigration enforcement?
where does that authority come from?
no. So there's certain agencies that
have what's titled authority, which is immigration enforcement
authority. So the federal government has
given them that authority. So there's other agencies.
some agencies may have had a historically but never used it.
other agencies now have it that didn't have it before.
and when did that new authority come to life?
I'm not exactly sure when they got it.
I know it was during president trump's term.
is my understanding of that. But this term you think, yes, my
understanding is this term. But again, I don't have the
nuances of when how the federal authorities work with that.
we weren't involved in any of that.
okay, mpd is required to transmit a report on january 1st
of every year to the mayor and the council, providing data on
requests for information or detainers made by federal
immigration agencies, individuals released into the
custody of a federal immigration agency, the types of information
that the agency shared with federal immigration agencies.
to date, we have not received any of these reports from mpd.
when can you commit to getting us this report from 2025?
yeah, so to date we haven't done any of that.
and that's why I report the report has never been because it
never has been. But if that's something that we
need to provide as a report, we can we can provide that.
and and maybe what we need to do is think of a longer life cycle,
that it's also includes the pre-arrest information.
I mean, we need to comply with the requirements of, of the
council and the law. So, I mean, we can look into
that. The issue is a pre-arrest like
we don't track that information. I think this was one of the
questions that came up. We don't track pre-arrest
information from federal agencies of what they do and
don't do. So we don't have that to
provide. But if mpd is on site, how how
complicated would that be for you to track yourself, for us to
track if they're asking questions or not?
the question would be is how will we track that information?
what information will we have to provide?
again, you know, this is a collaboration, but the federal
government doesn't have to provide us with information.
so again, we're putting their officers that are on the scene
in a very precarious situation, almost like we're trying to have
them police, the federal law enforcement agencies.
by by recording who is being arrested and who is being asked
what questions. I mean, literally, I mean, they
would have to ask the information.
I mean, our officers have body worn cameras, so the
interactions are recorded. But again, that's not put into a
report somewhere. There is no report of that.
right. And I guess what I'm trying to
get at is why not. So they would make a report of
if there was other federal agencies that were on the scene.
I mean, again, I don't really see what the purpose of that
would be, the time it would take to do that, to provide that.
well, I think the purpose would be around transparency of which
agencies are here, where they're being deployed, how decisions
are being made. And then if there is an issue
with an arrest or a violation of the law or the spirit of the
law, then we could know how to track it down and follow up.
but right now, kind of flying blind with what exactly is going
on in our communities. When the federal agents are
present, because we're not tracking it.
I see, I see your point with that.
but again, it's very difficult to put our officers in that
situation where, you know, again, an officer is running a
driver's license over here. There's a federal agent doing
something else over there. I don't really know what they
would, what they would track or what they would put down that
someone's running somebody. I kind of get the idea of where
you're going with that, but I just don't know how that would
move forward and how practical that would be.
every single interaction, just in case later on there was
something they use information from that stop and they try to
go back to it. Like, I think we'd have to think
more about what that looked like.
okay, I guess you all track your own information, right?
you track what arrests you're making and how what else is in
the case report and who the responding officer was and what
other district they come from. So we have a records management
system that tracks that. We have no records management
system. So our records management system
tracks our officers, has their information in there.
we don't have that ability. We'd have to establish something
outside of what we have now to track what the federal
government agencies are doing outside of their own.
you know, like the, for example, the the secret service, the park
police, they have their own records management systems that
track their own reports and what they're doing.
we don't track what they're doing in general, and we never
have. But is it a different level of
presence that mpd has this year with those federal agents?
like in the past year, if secret service was doing something or
fbi or anyone else, it would have been very unlikely for mpd
to be there, right? It just depends.
I mean, we serve on task force with these agencies all the
time. I mean, what we're doing now is
different than what we've done in the past, but it's not new.
it's not new for us to work with other federal agencies.
it's not new for us to work on task force examples of violent
crimes. The carjacking task force.
that's something that we started when carjackings went up.
we've been on that task force with the fbi for many years.
it's there. So some aspects are different
new, but working with other agencies isn't really new.
and it's something that we never track.
and again, we'd have to establish our own records
management to track what the federal government is doing
outside of that. Well, I guess the carjacking
task force is a good example of how are you tracking
information? How have you been predating this
year tracking carjacking information as a result of that
task force? Sure.
so in the carjacking task force, all those cases are assigned to
mpd detectives. They're not assigned to fbi
agents. They provide support, maybe
assistance with warrants or technology and things like that,
but they're not actually assigned the cases to
investigate. Mpd members are assigned those
cases. So therefore it goes in our
records management system. Okay.
in terms of the daily deployment decisions, walk us through how
the crime suppression teams are working, where those are
located, and then who is making a determination as to which
federal agencies and agents are going out, with which officers,
and how those deployment decisions are working.
sure. So each district has a crime
suppression team. They've always had crime
suppression teams across the city.
they've always focused on violent crimes or issues that
that live within that district. And usually they're directed by
the commander and based on crime trends that are there.
so for the proactive teams, there's proactive teams and
there's investigative teams. We'll slide the investigative
teams to the side. For now, the proactive teams,
the federal agents that are on those teams, there's three teams
target enforcement, targeted enforcement, proactive.
and then there's high visibility of those teams.
so the marshal service imt are the ones who determines what the
federal makeup is of each one of those.
and then they come to the districts and pair up.
so they meet at the districts, and then they'll go out with the
mpd personnel as a lead. And again, there's a reason for
that. I mean, we don't want the
federal agents just going out doing whatever they want across
the city. I mean, we've seen in other
jurisdictions, when the federal agencies go out, they go in the
communities. They don't know the area.
they're not trained to do this. Some of the ramifications that
have happened from that. So although it's not a situation
that we particularly want to be in, I do believe for the
community, it's the best situation, for the situation
that we find ourselves in. So we don't have rogue federal
agents across just doing things that aren't in compliance or
aren't in competition with what we want to do or the issues that
we're seeing here in the city. Okay, well, thank you.
and we'll come back to this in a moment.
as a reminder for folks, our order is councilmember
henderson, then robert white, then louis george, then parker,
and then crawford. Council member henderson, please
go ahead for 15 minute round. Thank you, chair pinto.
and good afternoon. Almost evening.
afternoon, chief. I wasn't planning to start here,
but I do want to follow up on some of the questions that you
had with councilmember pinto in. Now, I'm paraphrasing, you tell
me if I'm incorrect, but it sounds like you're saying that
mpd does not track info when you're doing joint operations
with federal, with feds. It doesn't.
I'm not saying we don't track any information.
if we make an arrest with feds, there will be a report that was
taken. Right?
so if mpd and federal agencies are there and mpd makes an
arrest, then there would be report.
if an mpd officer makes a stop, then there would be a report
with that. Okay.
what we don't have is some sort of separate mechanism that
stands alone, where we can easily pull that information out
and say, hey, we had 15 stops, that there were federal agents
on the scene of if there's an arrest made, there's fellow
agents there, or they play an assisting role.
it would be documented in those police reports for prosecution
and things like that. Okay.
so how is the decision sort of made then, which agency is
taking the lead? Who who is the one who is making
the stop? Who is the one who is then
initiating the arrest? Yeah.
so so it just depends, right? Depends on how the teams go out.
because I think a lot of times people are thinking the teams.
it's kind of like everyone's together.
sometimes they are together, sometimes they'll be in the same
area together again. It's not mpd.
if we see something that we need to initiate, we can.
but they're all law enforcement officers, so they all have
training as far as stopping individuals requirements of
probable cause, reasonable suspicion.
so if a marshal is out there and sees an individual they believe
is is armed or whatever, right? And they have that reasonable
suspicion, they can make that stop now, more likely than not,
if there's other mpd officers or whoever else is there, they're
going to then respond and to assist them with that.
right, okay. But then again, it depends on
the situation and the outcome of that.
in that situation, although the marshal made the stop, it could
eventually end up that mpd member makes the arrest.
so in that case, the mpd member would still do the arrest
paperwork. And in the narrative they would
indicate, you know, us marshal smith made a stop based on xyz
officer. You know, carroll responded to
the scene and laid out that from the information based that came
from the us marshal. So again, a lot of these are
collaborative. It depends.
I know it doesn't sound like a clear answer, I get that, but it
depends on the situation because it may be an mpd member takes
the arrest or it could be a pa police officer takes the arrest
because generally mpd, park police and secret service, those
are folks that typically deal with the d.c. Superior court
system. They have the records management
systems to process those arrests, so usually they will be
the ones that will be making those arrests in a lot of the
cases, sure, but you can kind of see what the rub is here, right?
because we've had a couple of incidents that have occurred
where the council members of the public are learning about
something in the media of an incident that occurred.
federal agents are involved. And then you read down a couple
of paragraphs and you realize that mpd was there, but nobody
knew anything about it, when in fact, you guys have the body
worn cameras. They don't.
so from the level of transparency and oversight,
unfortunately y'all are the ones, but nobody's reporting it.
if you're not the one who is doing the arrest or initiating
the stop, that is true because we are not the ones and we do
have body worn cameras. There are other agencies that
have them too. Park police has them.
some of the marshals have them. There are some federal agencies
that have that. But absolutely.
but you know, I understand. And again, we don't like to be
in this situation because we get asked questions sometimes about
federal agencies or people that they believe are federal
agencies have stopped individuals most times from the
council or others. Those questions come to us.
right. So again, we're trying to to dig
through and look and find out what we can too.
so it's definitely not the situation we'd like to find
ourselves in. Okay.
there was a report from the washington post this afternoon.
jenny gathright did a story, and you said in your comments back
with councilmember pinto. And again, I haven't even gotten
to my own written questions yet that.
you all don't share immigration information.
there is an individual who alleges got a call from mpd.
hey, we found your stolen vehicle that you reported
stolen. Please come to this police
station in the district of columbia.
walked into the police station and he was arrested by
immigration and customs enforcement.
how did ice know? But for you all or someone in
the arena sharing the information that this individual
was coming in to get their vehicle?
yeah, obviously, I don't know the specific information related
to that, and I haven't read the washington post article, but
again, like for me to kind of sit here and try to think of
ways there are a variety of ways that could happen.
obviously it sounds not good, but we need to investigate that
to see, to find out what happened, because it also could
have been there could have been a federal agent on the scene
when the car was recovered, and they could have had the
information. I mean, there's lots of ways it
could have happened. So for me to sit here and try to
throw hypotheticals of how it could have happened without
having the details, it's, you know, here's the thing about
jenny's story is that this isn't a one off incident.
she names another incident that it occurred.
so now I'm starting to get to questions of pattern and
practice, which obviously we're not going to get to the bottom
of in this particular hearing. But there's some gaps in what's
happening here, because going from a stolen vehicle to being
arrested by ice, that's when only one agency supposedly had
the information. That's kind of the problem.
all right. I want to go to overtime really
quickly because there's a lot going on in overtime.
now. I know obviously what happened
in august was a a problem. I know what's going to happen
from memorial day to labor day is going to put up that.
but I'm trying to understand, in terms of npd's own policy on
overtime. So you have a policy that says
officers can work no more than 18 hours within a 24 hour
period, nor in excess of 98 hours per seven calendar days.
now, this limitations includes all kinds of police work, and
it's also police related outside employment.
that is part of that category. As my understanding.
correct. You're right.
okay. All right.
now, are there any instances in which exceptions are granted?
I mean, unfortunately there could be times there could be
times like presidential inauguration or times when
details run over, or there's someone who has a specialized
skill set that can't be filled by another officer.
okay. Who do I mean by that?
who has the authority to make those?
so they'd have to notify a supervisor if there was going to
be. So the policy also requires
notifications to supervisors as they approach the 18 hour rule.
yeah, that's what we refer to it as.
and the same thing with the 96 hour rule.
so they have to make those notifications to see is there
some way they can be relieved? Is there someone else that can
can take over that detail? If not, the supervisor will
should document that of why? Why that reason that that
officer had had to stay over. Okay.
who tracks police related outside employment?
sure. So police raid outside
employment. So members are required to track
that and report that as they work it.
so it's an honor system. I guess you could say it's an
honor system. I mean, yeah, it's an honor
system. You have to.
yeah, it's an honor system. Yeah.
there's a form you fill out that you have to document your your
thing. So like, we don't members get
paid by their own organizations. It's not like, for example, if
you work security at giant. Giant doesn't tell mpd you
don't. You're not getting your your
part time employment or police related employment through the
department. No, no, no, I understand that
part. But I'm saying for the purposes
of the policy, which includes both overtime initiated and
controlled by mpd and overtime from outside, somebody's got to
track to make sure somebody's numbers are.
and this is not there's two things.
one, look, I know I'm tired after a certain amount of time
of working, so mistakes happen when folks are tired and that
type of thing. So this is kind of important.
okay. Absolutely.
what percentage of mpd overtime reimbursements are currently
pending? I'm sorry, I don't have the
information right now. We can get back to you.
okay. And I'm referring to I know that
when there are special events that take place, we're
reimbursed by the federal. You're talking.
well, so there's in some cases, yes.
there's two types. There's a special event where an
event organizer has it think your your your rock and roll
marathon. Those are reimbursable overtimes
that are reimbursed by the organizer.
then there's other events like maybe july 4th where it's
charged back to the fund. Okay, so you don't know how much
money you're owed. I don't see this table right
here. I don't have that.
we definitely have the information.
the agency. I don't have it off the top of
my head. Okay, mpd, you'll never want to
phone a friend. Like we come to a performance
oversight hearing to talk about performance.
and nobody ever wants to be prepared.
I don't like to do post-hearing questions, but now we do.
I understand, but I don't want to sit here and misspeak at the
hearing. And then later on there's an
issue or concern about I misspoke.
sometimes there is the budget officer who is available
nonetheless. Okay, you guys budgeted $36.9
million for overtime. In fy 25.
we know you spent more than that, spent about 61 million.
yes, ma'am. We already know what you have
going on this year is going to be insufficient.
so how much has mpd spent on overtime to date for fy 26?
I don't have the exact information.
I do have miss campbell here. She may be able to speak to
that. Do you only have her come up so
she can speak to it? I'm sure this is not my hearing.
can can he phone a friend? Do you mind if I have?
miss? Director of resource
accountability. Oh, absolutely.
come on up. We just need to swear you in
quickly. Sure, we can pause the clock for
a second if you. Oh, yeah.
I didn't know we had bright lights.
bright lights, big city. All right.
welcome, akima. Will you stop the clock, please?
thank you so much. If you can state your name and
position for the record, you got to turn your mic on.
patricia campbell, director of resource accountability.
great. And I'm just going to swear you
in quickly if you can raise your right hand.
do you swear or affirm under penalty of law that the
testimony you're about to provide before this committee
and the council of the district of columbia is the truth, the
whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
yes, ma'am. Thank you.
go ahead. Okay, so the question was about
how much mpd has spent on overtime in fy 26.
to date. 26, if you give me one second.
and gross overtime. Yeah, gross overtime is at $41
million, 41.6 for fy 26. Yes, ma'am.
is february okay? So we're for fiscal year 26.
yes. 26.8 of that is local.
and oh okay. So 26.8 of that is local out of
the 60, 41.6, 41.6 and 14.8 of that is non-local.
okay. I'm gonna ask a clarifying
question, chief. So they were pre-hearing
responses that were provided. There's a chart that is attached
to question 47, and that is about the top overtime earners,
which listed, you know, several sergeants, lieutenants,
captains, etc. At that part. Not the problem.
the chart shows that the top overtime earner took home
103,000 in overtime, and that their base salary was 40, and
that the second earner took home $100,000 in overtime, and that
their base salary was 38. And I'm trying to understand
whether or not those numbers were reversed or is that chart
accurate? It is accurate, ma'am.
it's accurate. Okay.
she said it was accurate. So that seems that's.
what I'm gonna ask. I'm sorry.
no. Go ahead.
you're referring to fy 26, right?
no. I think the chart that was
attached was regarding fy 27 or fy 25.
I think we have both in there. I think we have 25 and 26.
the portion thereof inside the questions.
okay. But overall in general that
seems off that somebody has a base salary of $38,000, but is
able to earn $100,000 in overtime.
I don't see any. There's no sworn member that has
a base salary of $38,000. Okay.
that's why I asked if the chart is accurate.
no, I don't have the chart in front of me.
that's why again, that's okay. So we'll ask some follow up
questions on that. Yes I got three minutes.
so let me keep moving really quickly.
I recently got the department of insurance, securities and
banking as part of my committee, and I chair the committee on
health is the financial crimes unit at mpd still active?
so there is a financial and cyber crimes.
it's a very small unit compared to what it was.
I believe there's three people that are currently in there.
a lot of it is work with other federal agencies.
three people. Yeah, at this point for both
financial crimes and cybersecurity, it's all one
unit. Okay.
formerly it was called check and fraud years ago.
but yeah, okay. Is that sufficient?
a lot of the crimes that occur in that arena are federally
related crimes. So that's why the task.
so the challenge with that is, is working with the federal
agencies that really have the authorities to to further delve
into that, the fbi and other things.
so a lot of those investigations are joint investigations where
we work with them. Obviously, you know, as as we
talked about, we have a lot of staffing challenges.
so there's a competing interest. We would like to be able to put
more people in the unit for sure.
okay. I think that's one of those
questions too, of as we have all of these other sort of federal
responsibilities that occur, what's kind of being left behind
in terms of not necessarily getting the full attention in
terms of also, I think very important crimes?
no. And I think that's an area where
we're looking to have the federal government and some of
those agencies that really focus on that continue to support us
on that, because that is an area where they actually have some
expertise in as opposed to street patrol.
in terms of that overlap. I know that you talked about
like, oh, there are certain agencies for whom have a more
public facing interaction with the public.
I would say probably the secret service and park police are
amongst those. There's some other federal
agencies for whom they don't do traffic stops on a normal basis.
and we've seen some of the things in language that they
even I mean, last summer, last summer was like the wild, wild
west. But to be stopped at a traffic
stop and have a federal officer ask, what is your business in
the district as though the district is somehow closed?
like that tells me that person does not have training, but talk
to me a little bit about the scanner situation.
is it normal for. Is it normal for federal
agencies to have full access to our scanner?
what's this? I'm sorry, what's a scanner?
so, you know, I don't know. Police scanner.
oh. The radio.
yeah. For dispatch.
yeah. So our channels are encrypted.
they don't have access. Like there's no scanner that can
hear it. I think more so maybe you're
asking, are there federal agencies that have our channels?
there are some. Park police have our channels.
uniformed division, secret service have our channels like
our district channels. So there are some there are some
mutual aid or interagency channels that are federal
agencies have that are connected.
so when there's a situation, let's say that there's a call
that comes into ouc. And I want one call.
yes. How is it that a federal agent
would show up before you all? I think you're talking about a
specific case potentially to happen.
maybe there could be another agency like park police or
another agency that has the radio zone that can hear the
call come out, and they can arrive on the scene just by
listening to it, but they would have to call in back to dispatch
to say, we're going or no, no, they can just go.
they can just hear the run and they could just show up on the
scene, the runs not being assigned to them.
we wouldn't assign it to a federal agency.
they would assign it to mpd officers that would arrive on
the scene. But other agencies that can hear
those transmissions could come to the area.
where I'm over my time, but I know they got this.
I just because you. There's nothing new they've
they've had like park police and secret service, capitol police.
that's nothing new. I understand that I understand
we're in a different situation, but park police, I feel like
again, park police and secret service are very different in
terms of their interaction. They're they're dealing with
people, secret service. They deal with children.
right. Come up to the white house
around the federal enclave, etc. I'm just trying to understand,
and I think the public is trying to understand if I call 911, are
you showing up or or is femme showing up or is ice showing up?
yeah. And that part is real gray right
now. Well, I can say if you call 911
mpd showing up, can other agencies hear those calls that
have those radio channels? Absolutely they can.
but mpd is being dispatched to call on mpd is responding.
I think that makes it a little. You see now the uneasiness of
some people calling for help. No, I definitely understand.
I'm not saying it's a situation that we want to be in or where
we want to be, but I want to make sure that we're transparent
and clear on what can what the state is right now.
like that's what the state is. Thank you.
thank you for thank you, counselor henderson.
guys, I've got to ask you again, please.
you cannot respond in this way. It's not right.
we are trying to ask questions. We're going to treat everybody
with respect in this room, in this committee.
councilmember parker, thank you. Chief carol.
mayor bowser has denied collaboration between mpd and
ice, publicly stating, quote, ice is not patrolling with mpd.
end quote unquote. Mpd is not giving the federal
government anybody, end quote. This claim was repeated in your
letter to the council on january 10th.
yet there have been many videos. There is a lot of testimony
today. We then heard at a november anc
eight, a meeting that from lieutenant karen roberts, who
said, quote, we are working with ice.
what accounts for the gap in the executive's statements about
collaboration with federal immigration authorities?
yeah. So I can't speak to what
accounts for the discrepancy. What I can tell you is we're not
working with ice enforcement removal operations, which is
your what people refer to as ice that come out and remove and do
civil immigration enforcement. With that being said, there was
a time period during the the crime emergency when president
trump initiated the emergency, when we were you know, chief
smith spoke about that. Since that time frame, we have
not been patrolling with the they call themselves ero, but
the enforcement removal operations.
there are other agencies in the city that do patrol with them.
yeah. Ice is the ero is the common
term for that is ice. We are not patrolling with them.
there are other agencies that do patrol with them.
they are in the city. And how how do you define
collaboration? How do I define collaboration?
because maybe that explains the discrepancy, that there is some
way you're defining or the mayor is defining collaboration, that
the public is not? Yes.
I mean, I would define collaboration as like for
example, are we riding with them?
are we out on the scene with them?
we are not on any teams with the ice ero teams that are out
there. We have not been since the end
of the emergency that's out there.
we are not providing information to isauro once people are in
custody. Those are, as we talk about the
the d.c. Code. We're not allowed to do that.
we are not allowed to ask individuals about their
immigration status. We're not allowed to share that
information. So that's what I call
collaboration. We're not we're not going out
with ice. Ero ikaro is going out on their
own. They are going out with other
agencies. They are not on teams that we
are on. So that's what I would define
collaboration. I don't know if there's a
different interpretation. Maybe.
are you privy to the office of police complaints?
the formal complaints that have been made about collaboration?
I know there have been some. I had the opportunity to hear
the the earlier hearing. With that, the specifics of
them, I do not know. And obviously any complaint that
comes into opc, just like when they come to mpd and we refer
them to opc, I know they'll follow up and investigate those
complaints. A lot of times in these
situations, folks don't know who's out there.
I think we've been highlighted inside some of the community
comments. They see people in tactical
vest. They don't know what agency
they're with. So again, they refer those for
further investigation as they should if they believe it's
misconduct. Okay.
more to come on that I would just say it was unsatisfying.
we heard literally in a matter of ten minutes that there were
no formal complaints. There were three formal
complaints. There were less than a dozen,
but more than three. And then there was a number of
87 thrown out. So there's still a level of
ambiguity about how many formal complaints there actually have
been. Do you have a sense of how many
formal complaints have been made about collaboration?
I do not know what opc has received, any any complaint that
we receive. Citizen complaints were required
to refer them to opc for determination.
they determine if they're going to investigate it or they can
refer back to us if it doesn't meet their their mandated
requirements. But we have to give them to them
and then they would send it back or they handle it so they would
be the place to to provide you with those.
the full picture of that on october 17th, mpd was patrolling
in collaboration with five federal agencies, including
homeland security, and in the midst of a traffic stop for a
car missing a front tag, a homeland security member shot a
d.c. Resident, philip brown's car, leaving bullet holes in the
driver's side window and passenger seat.
mr. Brown was then arrested. No gunfire was recorded in the
initial mpd public incident report.
during court proceedings, however, mpd officer jason
sterling informed the court that a superior or unit team lead
advised him not to document the gunshots fired by a homeland
security officer. In response to pre-hearing
questions, 188 mpd did not explain the status of its
internal affairs investigation of this incident.
can you provide an update? Sure.
so internal affairs. So my understanding with that is
there were two reports that were taken, one which described the
incident and there was one for discharge of a firearm that was
taken by internal affairs. So I think that's where the
confusion came in with that. With that being said, my
understanding with that case is internal affairs gather the
information. They present it to the united
states attorney's office, who then decline the information.
once that's declined by the us attorney's office for
prosecution, then it's returned to the home agency for any
administrative investigations as it relates to that.
so at this point, since there is no there's been a criminal
declination by united states attorney's office, it's then
referred back to the home agency for their administrative agency
being phc. No.
the home agency is where the officer is assigned to.
so in this case, it's an. Officer.
so see, because their policies and their procedures of how they
report use of force, their policies about how they they do
is not the same as mpd. They have their own policies
that that are guided by their own internal investigation.
has there been to the allegation that jason sterling was told by
a unit lead not to record what happened at the scene?
I can't speak to that. I don't know, that's something I
have to follow up with you. I do know there was a report
that did discharge that did complete that for discharge of a
firearm. I know we put out a press
release saying the mpd internal affairs was investigating that.
so I know publicly we acknowledge that we were
investigating that. I can't speak right now.
I have to follow up with you on that.
okay. So because the us attorney's
office declined to take up the matter, it was referred back to
the home agency. And what I'm also hearing you
say is mpd is doing its own internal investigation.
no. So when it comes to outside law
enforcement agencies, mpd's role in the investigation is just
that. No, I get that.
but we have and I have the reference here.
so according to mpd police academy guidance on basic report
writing, incident reports must include factual details of the
incident, including who, what, when, where, how and why.
mpd executive order 19 009 states that arrest information
is automatically uploaded to the force incident report,
indicating the documentation of a use of force is suffused with
arrest information and as well as d.c. Law.
so we know that according to the allegations by this officer, not
only was dc law broken, but mpd protocol was broken.
so you're talking two different things.
so the force investigative reporting system is if an mpd
member uses force, then there's a report that they have to
complete. Know what I'm talking about is
the requirement to record what happened at the scene.
so that so yeah. So I'm trying to make sure that
we're we're on the same path here.
I guess maybe if we push it, push apart the side about the
actual shooting, if there's an allegation of misconduct on the
officer. Now I want to be clear.
so like that's let's be clear about this.
so if we push it aside and we address that, if we're talking
about did the officer engage in misconduct by not including in
the report. That would be a separate
investigation by mpd internal. So that's what I'm asking you
about. And you're saying and I'm saying
I'm not insight. I'm saying I can't tell you
right now. Again, I don't want to sit here
and misspeak and tell you there is or isn't.
I want to give you the correct answer to that.
is there anybody here today that can give us an update on that?
no, I don't think there is. At this point.
we would need to make sure again, I want to make sure that
we can give you the actual information.
so I imagine there is no update on whether disciplinary action
has been taken. I guess.
I don't know at this point what where the status is with that.
so I need to get back to you. If the investigation has been
completed or not. Obviously that would drive
forward, but you would agree that would be a breach of mpd
protocol. I would agree that it would need
to be investigated to determine was there a breach of policy or
not. If a unit officer told another
officer not to record something that happened, that is a breach
of mpd protocol, is that not right?
it sounds like it, yes, it does, but what I'm going to say is
every member has the right to an investigation of potential
misconduct. So I don't want to sit here and
prejudge without investigation being done because they do have
procedural rights. And I want to make sure that
it's accurate information. Okay.
but yes, on their commitment to provide a timeline to the
council, how long we should wait for this investigation and
follow up. Sure.
so I think within a week we can give you a response of where
we're at with it. Okay.
if not, I appreciate that. I appreciate it is full body
police body camera footage of this incident available?
I believe they're I'm not sure. Again, I don't want to misspeak
on this. My understanding on this
incident because there was two different situations.
and that's why I want to make sure that we're on the right
one. The officers weren't there when
it actually happened. They got these shortly
thereafter. However, d.c. Code does not
allow for us to release mpd members bwcs if they're not
involved in the serious use of force.
okay, I am privy to the fact that some council members have
seen the footage. I am also told that community
members want to see the footage, but they haven't been able to
access it. Is there a reason why the
community may not be able to access the footage?
because the law does not provide for that.
the law provides that mpd member has to be involved in the
serious use of force for it to be released.
the process. There has to be a great public
interest. The only other way underneath
the law. Again, this this is the law, not
mpd policy is there has to be a great public interest.
then I think council member pinto introduced emergency
legislation yesterday that would make that would change that
policy. Does mpd support that change?
I haven't I've heard tangentially of what that looks
like. I haven't had the time to delve
into it completely. I don't know what the impacts
would be for that specifically. I do know that that was that was
introduced by the council member.
maybe somebody else also introduced something similar.
the chairman? The chair?
yes. Again, I don't have the
specifics of that. Okay.
I'm going to move on for the sake of time.
but I needless to say, it's unsatisfying.
and I think for your credibility and the credibility of the
agency, we need to get to the bottom of what happened and to
repair trust, because trust is broken not only within the
community and the family that is heartbroken about what happened,
but the council, which is why we're moving.
I understand, I understand, but right now mpd is complying with
the law. We're bound by the law.
okay. At the february 11th performance
oversight hearing for the deputy mayor of public safety and
justice, deputy mayor pia suggested that incidents of
illicit collaboration between mpd and federal agents, such as
what occurred at d.c. Bilingual on september 25th, 2025, are
isolated and not systemic. Deputy mayor appiah noted that
there is, quote, not the level of immigration enforcement in
the district that people think is happening.
end quote. She seemed to suggest that the
evidence of collaboration was slim and didn't hold up to mpd
scrutiny. Do you agree with this
impression? And what what what evidence do
you have to support such a claim?
yeah, and if I can say one additional thing, where we are
sitting, we see videos, we hear anecdotes, we hear day long
testimony where people are saying, this is what we're
seeing, seeing and hearing. And we hear the deputy mayor, we
hear mpd say, oh, that's not happening.
so my question is, prove it. How do you assure us that it's
not happening? What are you looking at to prove
that? It's not sure.
so obviously, it'd be great if we could come in here and have
some empirical data. Some numbers say, hey, x, y, z.
and I know that's what people like to have.
with that being said, if this was happening on such a large
scale as it is, there are 2 or 3 isolated incidents that have
received a lot of attention that's out there, and one of
which you spoke about that's out there, but you're not seeing
this on social media. It's not out here publicly.
there are there are individuals, obviously, that continue to push
that out there, but we're not seeing that.
so again, that's anecdotal and that's what the deputy mayor
said. We are not seeing it.
so then again today with the office of police complaints, I'm
asking. All right.
here are the formal complaints. They couldn't give me a concrete
number. You can't give me a concrete
number. So, you know, it feels like
gaslighting. You're like, yeah, file a
complaint if you see it happening.
but yet you don't have the data even there to back up how many
complaints we've received. Well, opc is not mpd, so I can't
provide their data and I don't have that information.
what I do have is the information that we do have.
and like I said again, it's anecdotal, but if this was
happening at some large scale prevalence, it would be all
over. Social media, we know, is all
over social media. We know there are a few.
there are a few incidents that are out there, right, that
continue to circle around there. So again, I can't provide opc's
data with that. I wish I could provide something
more more formal. If there is information out
there, we would ask that people provide that.
so that way we can investigate if members are violating the
policy or violating the law, then they'll be held and
addressed accountable. Okay, that's that's how that is.
good to hear that. We will hold that is good to
hear. So then my follow up question is
how many officers have been held accountable to date for
collaboration or stepping outside of mpd policy as it
relates to federal authorities? Sure.
and so at this point, like we talked about before, I don't
have that information, just like you said with opc.
again, again, we can go back and look at the cases and make sure
that we're clear. I don't want to sit here and I
understand there's a lot of pressure.
today is an oversight hearing. You had to know we were going to
ask you about this. You had to know that I would
think you would come in here to say I'm my fight is to rebuild
trust. And let me assure you that the
buck stops here. I'm glad to hear you say we're
going to hold officers accountable, but then it just
strikes me as odd that you would then say, oh, but we don't have
any numbers to back up. Okay, I have one more minute.
and then I know lewis george, councilmember lewis george is
ready to jump in. In your response to pre-hearing
question 115, mpd notes that mpd executive order 25 005 is still
in effect while the executive order clarifies the mpd officers
may not share information about individuals, mpd custody with
federal immigration officers or agencies, rather, mpd notes in
its answer to question 115 that officers are free to share
information about individuals involved in traffic stops and
can give federal immigration agents or detained subjects
rights. Yet mpd insists that this does
not amount to civil immigration enforcement, so that comes back
to what I was asking earlier how you define collaboration.
how is mpd coming to the conclusion that this is not
effectively engaging in civil immigration enforcement?
if you are sharing names and information of people that you
are engaging with in your line of duty, we're following the
law. The law is very specific, as we
talked about earlier, about when information can and cannot be
provided. Once an individual is in
custody, based on the law passed by the council, that information
cannot be shared. We didn't want to put our
officers in a situation where there was once the person is in
custody, that's what the law says.
absolutely. And we cite the law inside of
the executive order. Okay, walk with me.
if mpd officer pulls someone over, you're not in custody.
yet. You can't share their
information. We can share their information.
with that being said, we're not on patrol with ice, ero or civil
immigration authority folks that are out there, but there are
other agencies that have that authority that have not had in
the past the us marshals, the park police.
so if there's a park police officer that's there and they
decide to then flip that and do something and check that through
some database or whatever they may have have access to, they
have that ability to do that. So under oath, your testimony
today is mpd is not sharing the name or information of any
individuals prior to being taken into custody with any federal
agency. No, that's not what I'm saying,
okay? I'm not saying they were not
providing their information. No, the law is specific.
it says that once an individual is in custody.
so now I'm asking about the practice.
so we're clear. That was helpful.
so yes, prior to being taken into custody you can share
information. That's correct.
once they're in custody, you're saying mpd cannot share.
you cannot. So what we routinely hear about
are these pretextual traffic stops where all of a sudden now
people are seemingly being handed over to immigration
enforcement authorities. And what I'm asking you under
oath is you are assuring us that mpd is not authorizing that
behavior within the force. No.
and we're not sending officers out to do immigration
enforcement. We're not actually sending
officers out to take people to areas to do civil immigration
enforcement. That is not what we want to do.
that is not an area that we want to be in.
this is a situation that the city itself is in.
we don't want to be in these situations.
we are not going to violate the law.
okay, I am over time, I'm going to respect the clock and my
colleagues. Next on this list is
councilmember lewis george, council member white, I believe
is after that. So councilmember lewis george,
I'm going to turn to you. Yeah.
thank you. Good evening.
I want to start on february 11th.
julian bailey, a 43 year old father and son and a neighbor,
was shot and killed by u.s. Marshals.
I understand that mpd was originally called out to respond
to this incident, and that mr. Bailey was allegedly initially
involved in, and you all were there and now, and that mpd is
now conducting an investigation into what happened.
but I do believe our community deserves some answers right now.
and so I want to understand what happened at the convenience
store when mpd was still on the scene.
sure. Excuse me.
so some preliminary information that I have, and obviously this
is under investigation. So there's going to be a limit
to to what I can say about the actual officer involved shooting
portion of it, because internal affairs is investigating that
portion. Again, just like we talked about
earlier. They'll refer the information to
the u.s. Attorney's office for determination on prosecution
with that. Outside of that, as it relates
to the convenience store, a call came out.
officers responded to the convenience store.
mpd officers responded to the convenience store to
investigate. That call, I believe was an
individual. The call was for an individual I
believe that was armed with a gun.
when those officers were on the scene investigating that, that's
when other agencies, park police and marshals arrived on the
scene because they overheard those transmissions on the over
the radio. Okay.
and so at what point did mpd leave the scene at the
convenience store? My understanding is so after and
again, we can only go so far kind of into it so we don't
impede the investigations there. My understanding is the marshals
and the park police were there. They then left looking for the
individual. Shortly thereafter, mpd officers
left as well. I do know when the officer
involved shooting did occur. Mpd officers were not on the
scene of that. They arrived shortly thereafter.
and I guess I want to know why. Why did u.s. Marshals and park
police apprehend mr. Bailey without mpd present after the
fact? Because if you arrived on scene
and he was at the convenience store, I'm just trying to figure
out how he ended up. Then alone without metropolitan
police there with then park police and u.s. Marshals and
then being murdered. How did how did mpd leave this
scene and allow him to be left with u.s. Marshals and park
police? So, no.
so it didn't happen there. So the mpd officers were still
on the scene of the convenience store.
and this is my understanding, the situation when the marshals
and park police left looking for the individual.
so mpd was still at the at the convenience store when that
happened. When that happened, canvasing
for the individual. And let me ask you, why were the
u.s. Marshals and park police authorized to respond to this
call without mpd being present? So mpd was present at the
convenience store when the call came in.
they got the call, was dispatched.
I know what I mean. When they decided to leave, I
guess there were they responding to a lookout when they went to
go? Yeah.
and again, some of this is going to be a bit of assumption.
my assumption is that there is a lookout or some information that
was shared about the person that we're looking for.
I don't know if it was over the radio or if it was on the scene.
those are things that the investigation will ferret out
with that. But park police has the
authority. Park police has has the same as
the metropolitan police department across the city.
so they they don't need us to take police action.
they don't need us to take police action anywhere in the
city. They can do that unilaterally
without us. Why they chose to do that and
what they chose to do. I don't have that information.
obviously, part of the actual investigation into that
shooting, those types of questions will be will be asked.
and so if my thing is, if they responded to the original scene
at convenience store and they were further investigating, and
that's further investigation led them to looking for the
individual. Wouldn't mpd also be looking for
whatever individual they were looking for, and why would they
not be accompanying the other entities in looking for that
individual? I just I don't understand how
mpd was not on the scene of the shooting, you mean.
yes, of the shooting. My understanding is they were
still on scene gathering information from the initial
complainant. So the victim that called 911
about the the firearm or whatever the initial police call
was, they were still on the scene interviewing that that
that complainant when the other when the park police and the
marshals went to look. So what normally would happen in
a case like that, if it was mpd officers and another officer
from mpd had come to the scene and they went to canvass, is you
would make sure the officers that are on the scene of the
convenience store, they would obtain all the information
needed for the police report. If an individual was identified
and there needed to be a show up or have a detective come to the
scene, they would then coordinate with getting that
complaint or that victim to that location.
right? So that's what I mean.
I'm just trying to understand why they would be I'm trying to
make sure why would they be canvasing?
this is a this originated from a 911 call, which means mpd would
be responding, as you all do, to 911 calls.
and if you all were in investigation and there was a
canvass, usually there's officers who stay on scene,
collect information, and then their officers who go canvass.
was mpd not instructed to canvass.
and holly, that's what I'm trying to figure out.
it would be that mpd would have been canvasing for an individual
alongside these officers. So I'm saying, were they
canvasing for mpd? I don't know, specifically mpd
directed them or they just heard it and went canvasing again.
that'll be something. The investigation has.
it wouldn't be out of the realm for possibility if they heard
the lookout to go look for it, or if the officers on the scene
said, hey, we're looking for an individual x, y, z related to
this. Like those details I don't have.
it would not be unusual though, for either way they could have
just heard it and went. I do know that they did come by
the convenience store before they they later located the
individual, but what that exact conversation, what it looks
like, I don't know, that'll be part of the investigation
because my fear in the public fear is that mpd can then use
federal agents to do canvasing and follow up, and in doing so,
then you all those individuals are not accountable to d.c.
government d.c. Council. But in in addition, they're not
going to have body worn camera. And so now we will be left
without evidence and information if you all are in fact using
federal agents to do canvasing work of metropolitan police
officers. So my real question is, is that
the case? Are we using hpsci and us
marshals and park police to do canvasing work in cases?
because if so, then future residents are at risk of being
at home and being killed without any body worn camera being
present. Yeah.
so so two things with that. So it's definitely not out of
the realm of possibility for other agencies to be out there.
for example, if ebola comes out for a robbery.
no. If they go out, they if they do
it. But if I want to make sure our
officers mpd is not directing federal officers to do
canvasing, do work that they are either not on scene,
accompanying them and allowing them to go out and do
investigations alone because that creates a very real threat
to our community, because there is no there is no accountability
if if our officers are not present, there's no body worn
camera evidence. If our officers are not present.
and that is a way to impede the transparency that we we require
as district residents. No, no, I understand.
I just don't want to make sure that I'm clear that it is
possible. For example, if a robbery came
out and we broadcast a lookout, or we send out a bolo or be on
the lookout, that capital police park police would not get that.
and they could then be canvasing or looking for that person.
that happens all the time where they may have an individual
they're looking for, they send to us and they're officers
looking for or we have one. We push out to the regional law
enforcement, metro transit park police.
once that gets there, there could be federal agents or
others that get those things. Second part of that is there are
other agencies like park police that do have body worn cameras.
again, not the same controls from the council like we have.
so that I definitely understand that concern.
but there are there are other agencies that do have body worn
cameras that would provide information potentially in this
incident. Do we know if there is body worn
camera available for this? The incident involving mr.
bailey? My understanding there is some
from park police. Okay.
and is that information? Is that evidence going to be
shared with the dc council. That's not again, that's not mpd
was not on the scene of that. That's not our information to
share with anybody. That's information that internal
affairs would get. They would share with the u.s.
attorney's office how park police and what their procedures
are as far as body worn camera release.
that's that's up to them. I don't specifically know what
they are because they did not discharge that situation.
they were on the scene, though, as my understanding.
and how long after they responded to the scene, how long
did it take for mpd to get to the scene of the shooting or of
of the not the convenience store, but the subsequent murder
that occurred? I don't know the exact time.
it was a short time thereafter. I would say within minutes or a
minute or two, but I can't say exactly.
okay, as soon as the shooting happened, they went over the
radio. So I think the officers that
were in the area actually heard gunshots.
okay, mpd officers that were in the area, okay.
I just want to make sure and I think you understand and
appreciate what I'm saying about making sure, given that the the
radios are open and given the lack of transparency and
accountability that comes from mpd not being on scene, that
this is some this is why we need to make sure that we are not
utilizing federal law enforcement for any of our
investigations, because it puts our community at risk.
no. And I and I think to the point
that was made earlier by some other council members and to
your point, like, you know, the reason why mpd is going out with
them is to try to mitigate issues like this, because we
have seen in other places, when they go out on their own, there
are challenges. Now.
park police, does police in the city on their own.
but I think to your point, you're absolutely right.
when you have federal agencies going on their own and doing
their own thing, there's challenges.
the marshals do not normally respond to.
nine one calls. Park police do.
but with that being said, there are challenges.
so that's why I think, you know, trying to work with them to to
make sure we can do our best within the confines to keep the
community safe as possible and drive the areas is better than
just letting them do their own thing.
correct? Ward 4 school communities have
reported mpd officers accompanying federal immigration
agents near schools. We have had incidents
throughout, including e.l. Haynes.
we've had incidents outside of many of our child care centers,
including estrellita and d.c., bilingual, as well.
you all are creating lifelong in addition to trauma that's being
created for our young people, you all are also creating
lifelong distrust of an entire generation.
in doing so, what is the current controlling written mpd policy
governing mpd officers activity during federal immigration law
enforcement near schools and daycare centers and other
sensitive locations of that nature?
yes, mpd is our policy is, as I spoke of earlier, it's
controlled by the law. We are not engaged in civil
immigration enforcement. We are not asking people what
their immigration status is. With that being said, there
could be ice people that are on their own, or they could be with
other law enforcement agencies. We are not in joint patrols with
ice ero. We have not been since the end
of the emergency. As we talked about.
with that being said, I know there's a lot of federal
agencies that are out there. They wear tactical vest and
things like that, and sometimes there's confusion or lack of
clarity of of who some of these agencies are, which obviously is
a concern to us, too, because the incident that occurred
outside of d.c. Bilingual was that an incident that was a
traffic stop, or was that an incident where federal federal
immigration law enforcement was happening?
my understanding is that was a traffic stop.
where then other individuals came in there and turned it into
a immigration incident. How did it get turned into that
from a traffic stop, much like we talked about before, as far
as the information sharing that the officers on the scene do
what they do, and then other agencies use their own
authorities to do what they whatever federal authorities
they have as far as immigration, that's my understanding of it.
I do know it is a subject of, I believe, an investigation within
the department still. Yeah.
you do understand the that these things happening near schools,
the impact that it has on our young children, not only the
trauma but that lifelong distrust of an entire generation
that is occurring as a result of this.
no, absolutely. I mean, I think some of it is
perception, if it's true or not. I think the perception that's
out there does its damage in and of itself.
so we're keenly, keenly aware, like I said this, this is not a
situation where the police department wants to be in a
situation we find ourselves. We also had a conversation
because there is a the warrant. What's the task force that does
the warrants? So there's a couple, but the
capital area regional fugitive task force cardiff, you're the
ones that usually look for very. We had a conversation earlier in
the year where they were doing warrants and the really early
morning hours, and specifically during the time parents and
families were going to and from school.
I was told that you all would inform the the warrant task
force to stop doing executing warrants on and around schools,
especially during morning drop off and pick up.
but we still have heard incidents of that happening.
have you instructed them to not do those warrants during
literally pick up and drop off near our schools?
and and why is it still occurring?
yes. So I do know we have shared
those concerns. Again, we don't control what
they do. We're not in charge of the
federal agencies out there and there are others.
so there's there's cardiff, but there are other superior court
martials groups that are out there too.
and then sometimes there's tactical groups that go out
there. With that being said, we have
shared the concerns with the task force, especially about in
the area of schools in general. We've also seen concerns like
that from just national guard deployments that sometimes go
past schools and citizens that raise concerns about that.
so we realize those concerns that people see that and they
assume certain things are happening, why they continue to
do or why there's instances that pop up that's not mpd deploying
that or so I can't give you an answer to that, but I do know we
have shared those concerns. Are our ice and homeland
security investigations participating directly or
indirectly in the sboe or task force work streams.
the task force so twofold hsc is in the task force.
there is esro. They are on the task force.
we are not in any groups with the ice ero, and we have not
been since the end of the emergency.
so but they are still out there. They are working with other
agencies that are out there in the city.
we are not part of those groups. Hsc is out there also as well,
and my understanding is hsc is also ice.
yes, hsc is the homeland security.
so there's kind of two portions of that agency.
one is homeland security investigations.
they focus on investigations, different criminal matters.
the ice enforcement removal operations.
those are the folks that people locally say call ice or their
job is to go out and do immigration enforcement and
removal operations. So then you all are cooperating
then with federal immigration. If hsc is ice, you all, then you
all are cooperating. No.
and we've been very clear that we've been working with ice.
we've been very clear from the officer involved shootings that
we talked. Wait a minute.
you just told councilmember parker.
no, no, no, no, let's be clear on this.
we've talked about officer involved shootings with hsc and
our responses. We've been very clear.
we are working with sai. Sai is not out doing immigration
enforcement. We are not going out with them
for that purpose. Ikaros job is to go out and do
immigration enforcement. They are the civil immigration
enforcement and we are not on teams with them.
and we've been very clear about that.
and there are other agencies, and I've said this before
because I don't want there to be confusion.
this question seems to come up a lot.
there are other agencies, the marshals, the park police that
do have the legal authority to do those things.
we are not going out with the intention of them to go do civil
immigration enforcement. But could they do that while
they're there? They could.
we cannot stop them from doing so.
can you all stop working with sai right now?
we are still on task force with sai.
I'm saying at this point, moving forward, since there is an
intention to not be cooperating with federal law enforcement,
immigration, and that is our policy as a city, as our laws
respect it. Can we end at least can we agree
for you all to end the coordination you currently have
with sai, who is acting as ice, whether named directly ice or
not. Sai has that ability.
will you all agree to end the cooperation with sai moving
forward so that we don't have you all participating and
coordinating with federal immigration law enforcement,
which sai is? We have been working with sai
before this on investigation. No, I know, but so I don't think
that people are trying to push that into the same, same vein at
this point. Sai is not going out there and
doing it. Could they?
there is a possibility. There is a possibility the park
police could. There is the possibility of
marshals could. So again, we're always
evaluating what we're doing and where we can be at and what's
best overall. As far as part of the task
force, we do not want to be in a situation.
as I've said before, okay. Thank you.
councilmember pinto. Thank you, councilor lewis
george, councilmember robert white, thank you so much.
councilmember pinto. Thank you, chief carroll.
yes, I apologize, I've been chairing a hearing on public
housing since 9:30 a.m. Got to run right back to that
after I finished. I'm now more confused about who
we are and are not cooperating with.
but let me start here. There was a washington post
article today identifying two separate issues where a latino
immigrant was arrested by ice or inside of mpd stations after
routine interactions with mpd. One was a gentleman who had a
car stolen, was apparently told, come to the station and pick up
your car, only to be arrested there by a team that included an
officer with an ice shirt, and then another man who was stopped
for an expired license process, told he was free to go, and then
immediately re-arrested in the station.
by hpsci both accounts, you know, are documented in sworn
declarations. How would federal agents know to
come to mpd station if not through communication from mpd?
yeah. So I'm sorry this question did
come up a little bit, kind of this similar question earlier.
with that. Again, these two specific
situations, I don't have the answer.
I don't have the specific knowledge of them.
I do know was referenced that there is an article came out
this afternoon about that. With that being said, and again,
anything that I give, it would be conjecture of what it could
be, right? Obviously, it could be that
there were members of federal law enforcement that were on the
scene when the arrests were made, and they would know that
they would be leaving the station.
right. There are several things that
could happen to lead to that. What needs to happen to have a
definitive answer is needs to be an investigation to determine
what are the nuances of this and how did this happen?
anything I give is going to be conjecture.
so has ice. I'd say since august of 25 has
ice or any other federal immigration enforcement agency
conducted any civil immigration arrests when the premises of an
mpd station? Not to my knowledge, they
haven't. Okay.
and again, I'm not at every station, but I have no knowledge
of that happening. Since august 25th.
has mpd ever shared with the personally identifying
information of an individual with ice or any other federal
immigration enforcement agency? Not to my knowledge, we have not
since they've been in custody, obviously.
and again, I want to make sure we're clear because I know
questions come up during the emergency.
there were ice individuals, ice ero that we were working with.
since that time, we have not been working with ice.
ero to your question about other other organizations that conduct
civil immigration authority, I think that's where it gets a
little confusing, because there are agencies like I've spoken
about park police, marshals, to name a few, that can, if they
choose to do civil immigration enforcement.
our goal by being deployed and going out with any of those
agencies, many of which we've worked with for many years prior
to this, is not to go out and do civil immigration enforcement,
but could someone of that group then take and switch on that?
absolutely. Could.
the law is specific that we are not allowed to share information
once an individual is in custody.
our custody and we are not allowed to ask about a person's
immigration status and what is in custody.
mean in custody means under arrest in police custody.
okay, so if someone had a car stolen and they went to mpd to
pick up their car, they would not be in custody.
that's correct. They're not in custody.
and so they're not in custody. Would you or could you share
their information with civil immigration enforcement?
legally we could. But again, I don't want you to
take in or anyone to take that and extract back that we did
that. We have to investigate it to see
exactly what happened. That's in there, because there's
lots of ways there could have been a marshal on the scene when
the report was taken, and they know that.
and then they did their own investigation to do that.
so there's there's several ways it could happen.
I just want to make sure that I'm not trying to give the
appearance of something that it's not.
does hsv ii do civil immigration enforcement?
my understanding is that no, they don't.
they're general. No, I want to be clear.
my their general response has always been homeland security
investigations. Could they do it?
absolutely. They could.
could the marshals do it? Absolutely.
they could. Could the park police do it?
they have the legal authority. There are agencies.
if you asked this question about hhc six years ago, we wouldn't
be having this conversation because there was never any
blurring of the lines. But at this point they could
they don't do it. Generally, but could.
but to your to, to your knowledge, see is not currently
doing civil immigration enforcement.
that's correct. Okay.
let me let me move to a different issue.
we have had in the past year. Many advocates have shared that
there have been several incidences, incidents where
federal agents have used force in dc neighborhoods, including
shootings at drivers who turned out to be an unarmed flash bangs
used in residential neighborhoods.
in the case of philip brown, mpd officers were on the scene.
from the community's perspective, they see mpd
uniforms and they reasonably expect district officials to be
able to explain who used force, what police policies applied,
and what accountability followed.
but in that incident, the police report did not include details
about the shooting. Is that correct?
I just want to make sure. Which incident are we talking
about? This is the one shooting, this
shooting of philip brown. Yeah.
I'm sorry this came up. I think councilwoman parker
asked a similar question about the report.
and then there's a second report that was taken by internal
affairs about a discharge of a firearm.
so the the initial police report did not include mention of of a
shooting. So that's my understanding.
we had a conversation about this a little bit ago.
so the initial report, based on the conversation we had did not
reference the shooting. There was mpd, internal affairs
did respond to the officer involved shooting.
there was a report taken for discharge of a firearm of a
service weapon that's out there. A press release was done about
the officer involved shooting as we do, even though it's not
ours. Saying that we are investigating
that that's that's the case. I think that you're talking
about. And so.
there is an investigation. So the follow up for the council
member was clarity on is there an investigation and what the
status of that was. He had asked.
so that's that's a follow up that due back to him within the
next week or so. Okay.
but right now you don't know whether I again, I don't I don't
want to misspeak and say one way or the other.
I'm not sure on that. So I'd rather make sure we give
you accurate information. So if somebody was shot at in
the district of columbia, would you be concerned if there is not
an investigation? No.
so there is an investigation. I'm sorry.
so there is an investigation into the shooting.
so a little bit about that. So the shooting, the discharge
of the firearm, internal affairs for any agency, mpd or not,
they'll respond to the scene and do an initial investigation when
it's a non mpd agency. Hpsci the marshall's, the fbi,
park police, whoever it is, they'll go, they'll gather the
information. They'll then present that
information to the united states attorney's office, united states
attorney's office will make a charging decision.
or are they going to charge the individual criminally, or are
they going to issue a declination?
if declination is issued and relates that incident, then that
is then turned over to the home agency.
when I say home agency, that's the agency that the the officer
or the agent is assigned to for them to conduct an
administrative investigation to determine was the discharge of
firearm in violation or in compliance with their
administrative policies. So in this case, a declaration
was issued by the united states attorney's office based on the
initial information gathered by internal affairs that has been
turned over to c for their administrative investigation
into was there a policy or procedure violation with that?
but thank you for for all of that.
but I'm still not clear on whether you are concerned about
whether or not there is a d.c. Investigation about someone
being shot at in dc. No, I'm I'm sorry, I'm not clear
on what your question is. If someone is shot at in dc,
should there be an investigation?
yes, there should be. If a police officer shoots
agencies. So if a government if a police
officer shoots at, there should be an investigation.
in this case, there was an investigation.
there was a criminal investigation that a declination
was issued. That investigation was done by
mpd. A declination was issued.
so that criminal investigation is now over.
and now there's administrative investigation that will be done
by in this case, c. So there was a criminal
investigation completed. It was presented to the united
states attorney's office here in the district of columbia.
and they issued a declaration to that criminal investigation.
what's the declination? A declination is declination to
prosecute. It's a determination by the
united states attorney's office that they will not prosecute in
this case. Okay.
so if someone civilian is in dc, unarmed, get shot at and is not
prosecuted, does that cause you concern?
I mean, I'm sorry. Say that again.
if someone is in dc, they get shot at.
the shooter is not prosecuted. Does that cause you concern?
yeah, I think in general it would cause me concern.
I know where you're going with this line of questioning, but
our our position, our job is to gather the facts and present it
to the united states attorney's office.
we do not make charging decisions if they want to charge
individuals criminally or not. Our job is to gather facts to
date that information to present it to them.
well, I got to challenge that because I've heard a lot of
opinions about declining to charge d.c. Residents from mpd
over the years, and now you're telling me, well, we don't opine
on that, but that's just not true.
well, sir, I'm not saying I've never, never brought that to
you. I'm not saying that no police
officer ever does. I think that'd be disingenuous.
with that being said, I definitely think there's always
concerns. But again, the nuances of the
investigation, that's the facts that are presented.
united states attorney's office, there are cases that happen in
homicide cases where individuals are not prosecuted.
that's the determination of the facts being brought to the u.s.
attorney's office. And that's their determination
if they're going to prosecute or not.
well, we have heard I mean, hearing after hearing over the
years criticism from mpd leadership about federal
prosecutors, not prosecuting people who commit crimes in d.c.
and I'm not hearing that here. And this is serious.
no, 100%. I'm not going to sit here and
criticize the prosecutor about their decisions.
I don't have the insight to know exactly what was presented to
them, but the information was presented to them, and they had
that determination to determine, do they want to charge
criminally or not? I definitely understand your
position with that, but our position is we have to gather
the information just like we do. In any case, there are cases
where of all kinds of things that are presented to the us
attorney's office and for a variety of reasons, the
decisions are made not to pursue charges.
so as far as I understand, an unarmed man was shot at in d.c.
that man was a father. He is traumatized.
his mother cried in my office, and the prosecutors, federal
prosecutors have determined that they are that the federal
officer who shot at this man in d.c.
did not commit a crime. I can't even make sense of that.
and there seems to be no outrage from the government officials.
I mean, that that is concerning. No, I mean, it's not lack of
empathy on our part. But again, we we have a job to
do and we have to present that to the u.s. Attorney's office.
they have that information. I don't have all the specific
information that's out there. I didn't do the investigation.
regardless, we do need consistency.
if this was if I shot at somebody in the street and they
determined they weren't going to prosecute me, I think you'd have
something to say about it. It does happen.
and again, that's up to us. And we go back to u.s.
attorney's office when we have cases and we present the
information, but it's not for us to go out and to make that
determination. It is their right and
responsibility to do that. I definitely understand the
concern, but it's a big concern. This inconsistency is is scary.
we don't want to be in this situation.
and I've said it before, we don't want to be in this
situation that we're in as far as a city, but we're there.
so, you know, on the mpd perspective, we're trying to do
as much as we can to try to mitigate as we're out there.
right. So being with the federal
agencies and trying to mitigate and put them in areas where we
need the assistance, where we're having issues and challenges and
having to work within those confines.
okay. So.
no note, no opinion on federal prosecutors declining to
prosecute. What about the flashbangs used
in the residential neighborhood? Is is that a concern?
are we investigating that? What's the status?
mpd is not investigating that. That's I believe the fbi had
some sort of an operation that they were conducting there.
I'm not sure if the fbi is investigating that.
there was some sort of an arrest that was made.
is my understanding related to that?
so when when there's a use of force by, let's say, federal law
enforcement, should there be a use of force report done by mpd,
not by mpd? No, we don't have the
information. I mean, again, different federal
law enforcement agencies have different policies.
my understanding is that some of them do use of force reports.
I don't know what that looks like.
I would imagine there's probably differences between the
different agencies, but what their administrative process is,
I don't know. So I can't really speak to it.
we do what I can tell you that what this sounds like there was
the wild west, because if if I use force in the street, there's
going to be an investigation and arrest and prosecution.
if you or your officers use force, there should be a use of
force report. But if federal officers can do
whatever they want, and we're not going to take a position on
that, that's not what I said. I said we would investigate
this. I don't know, I can't say if the
fbi does an investigation or not.
I don't know the answer to that. They shouldn't.
you know the answer and shouldn't I know the answer?
I mean, I don't work for the fbi.
I don't know that I don't know if the fbi has been asked about
what they're how they investigate their things.
I don't have that answer. So I can't really speak to it.
so if if a d.c. Resident gets shot and their family comes to
me and they get shot by a federal officer, could I say it
was shot by federal officer, not a local officer.
so nothing I can do there? No.
but you also wouldn't say go to mpd and ask them why the federal
agency shot them. I don't have that information.
they don't follow the same training that we have.
they don't follow the same policies and procedures that we
have. They don't have the same
requirements that we have. So I can't speak to that.
are you prohibited from investigating?
would there be nothing to investigate?
you're allowed to use force under the color of law.
so again, in the serious use of force aspect, we do, but we have
nothing to investigate. Mpd is down almost 800 officers
from compared to where I'm at now.
their job is not to go back into reinvestigate in cases of
serious use of force, where there's a loss of life, an
officer involved shooting. We definitely do investigate and
that's to bring that criminal forward.
that's the same that we would do for any sort of situation.
if it was mpd member or not, but every single use of force that
any federal law enforcement agency does.
how we define a serious use of force and how they define a
serious use of force will be different.
what's reportable under mpd policies and is reported on any
other agencies policies will be different.
so again, those are things that we have no control over.
you know, we can't say what their policies are.
I definitely understand the concern, but I'm asking we've
handled it that way. No federal officers fire a
weapon at someone in d.c. Are you prohibited from
investigating? If they shoot a gun at someone?
we do investigate those things. All officer involved shootings,
all discharges of a firearm in the district of columbia.
we do investigate, and we present them to the u.s.
attorney's office. There's other types of force
that are out there. There's lots of other force
that's out there besides the discharge of a firearm.
that's what did your investigation show when the
shooting, when the officer shot at phillip brown?
that's the case we just talked about.
that's the one where the information was presented to the
united states attorney's office. They issued a declination.
in that case, we don't do an administrative investigation.
we do a criminal investigation that's presented to the united
states attorney's office, just as we do inside homicide cases
in any criminal case. And they then have the right to
make that determination of are they going to pursue charges or
not? If they don't pursue charges,
then it goes back to agency, just like an mpd.
if we have an officer that's involved in an officer involved
shooting, we're going to present that to the united states
attorney's office. If they issue a declination,
then we're going to do an administrative investigation to
determine is there a policy violation?
what do we need to do that's going to go to our use of force
review board? Who's going to make a final
determination. All right.
I don't know what the different federal agencies, how they
handle that administratively. They may have boards.
they may have things like that. I just don't know.
so I can't speak to it. My last question, if there is a
federal threat to d.c. Residents, do you and your
officers have a duty to protect d.c. Residents?
absolutely. If there's a threat to the
residents, we do. Okay.
thank you. Chief.
yes, sir. Thank you.
thank you, councilmember pinto. Great.
thank you, councilmember white. I'm going to turn to
councilmember crawford now for a 15 minute round.
for the past month, including free d.c. Black swan academy,
trigger project and harriet's wildest dreams, I admire the
work that you do. And again, thank you all for
your service and commitment. I want to start by following up
on some of the testimonies that we heard today.
so, chief carroll, several public witnesses raised concerns
about your perceived associations with the proud
boys. This is not the first time or
even the second or third time that I've heard this.
so I just want to provide you with the opportunity to address
those concerns directly. For the record, can you clarify
the nature of those claims and state whether you have ever had
any affiliation or association with that organization?
no. I appreciate you asking the
question because I don't know where this comes from.
I'm not associated with the proud boys, nor have I ever been
or any other group or organization that's related to
white supremacy or anything else.
there was an incident that occurred in there was an
incident that occurred in 2020, a demonstration where there were
individuals of the proud boys that were attempting to get to
other protest groups that were there, and they actually began
assaulting 3 or 4 female individuals that were there.
I interceded in that. I deployed oc spray to stop the
proud boys from assaulting those individuals, and I arrested one
of those individuals. Additionally, outside of that,
one of our members was charged as relates to the proud boys.
I went to court and I testified against that member.
so I don't know where this, this, this thought that I'm
associated with the proud boys come from, but I am not.
so I thank you for asking that. I want to be clear on that.
and can you just explain also how you're working to maintain
public trust and confidence in your leadership of mpd?
no, absolutely. And again, you know, I know the
performance hearings can always be be be challenging.
I know there's a variety of views across the community about
what we should do and how we should do.
and I know there's a general concern about the federal
authorities that are here and the things they're doing, and we
share those concerns with mpd. You know, my goal and what we've
done in this department for many, many years is try to work
with the community to see where the issues at, how can we make
things better? Obviously, there's concerns.
it's been raised here by many council members about the trust
and the damage that this is doing, and we definitely are
concerned about that. And one of our things is ways
that we can work to try to build that trust back up, because one
day the federal task force will be gone, whatever it is, and mpd
will still be here, and we're the ones that are going to be
left behind. Their officers that have been
out here every single day trying to deal with the situation and
to deal with it as tactfully as possible, that are now going to
be left to after this very challenging situation, to then
rebuild that trust. So trying to do what we can now
to continue to build trust. And I understand it's
challenging. Our officers don't want to be in
these situations, but they are. And I keep saying that because
it's so important that people realize that, you know, for me,
things like doing the community walks, engaging the agencies
across the city, our citizens advisory council, we have a
chiefs advisory council, all the districts have advisory councils
just getting out, talking to them.
one of the other things is talking to our officers.
you know, our officers are the ones that are out in the
community day in and day out, engaging with folks, getting
ideas. What are things that we can do
better? What are areas that we can
improve that we're not going to be perfect always.
there's always room and things that we can do better.
and it's our goal to try to do those things.
so, you know, taking the feedback, doing different war
walks in different events just to really try to connect and get
that information. So I look forward in this role.
I'm here to to doing that, to continue to move those things
forward and doing our best to continue to strengthen the
relationship that we have with the community.
thank you. I appreciate that, and I'll just
say I've been working with the organizations I named, as well
as with my colleagues on legislation for next week.
and I know in the past there's been a perception that no matter
law enforcement, no matter who they are, supports blue.
you know, blue supports blue. And I think that is part of the
perception that people may have when it comes to wanting to
trust that mpd is there to protect and serve district
residents, and not just fully cooperate with the federal law
enforcement. And I don't know if you have any
thoughts on that, but it's something I've also had to.
struggle with. I guess, when it comes to like
fully trusting mpd and making sure that they are there to
serve our district residents. No, I mean, it's it's it's a
challenging situation, like law enforcement is law enforcement.
and we have to cooperate with other agencies.
we have to work with them. There's agencies that have
specialized missions. We are a federal district.
the fbi investigates certain types of crimes.
the atf investigates certain types of crimes.
we need their resources and support in those areas.
where the challenge has really come in.
is this this proactive, forward facing, street level
interactions that's really caused the challenge in the
communities out there. And you hear it here in the
testimony of the different citizens and community members
that have testified today. And you hear within the
department, you know, as far as mpd, we're going to continue to
work with the community. We have to work with other law
enforcement agencies collaboratively.
we don't have to work with ice. Ero and do civil immigration
enforcement. There's a law that specifically
prohibits that. That's not an area we want to be
in. It was much simpler four years
ago, three years ago, two years ago, when we didn't even have to
delve in that area at all. But now with these other
agencies that are out there, it puts us in a situation and
trying to make sure that our officers have the appropriate
tools and the appropriate training to keep them to make
sure they're in compliance with the law, but also make sure that
people in the community are able to trust mpd.
thank you. I want to switch to juvenile
curfew now. So of the 15 curfew zones that
have been implemented, mpd reports encountering 18 youth
who would not come into compliance, but zero arrests
during extended hours if not arrested.
what actions did mpd take with these young people when they
refused to come into compliance? Sure.
so they were either taking home or they're taken to.
diaries where there's resources there to connect them with for
at risk behavior. So they weren't they were not
arrested and there were no arrests in those enhanced hours.
I believe it's from 8 to 11. Okay.
so when you say no arrests, because what I heard from some
youth is that there may be times when youth at the time of a
curfew violation, are arrested for other offenses that aren't
the curfew violation. Is that true?
so, in other words, are you being arrested for other
offenses during the curfew hours?
so we didn't have anyone that was arrested.
we didn't have any juveniles that were arrested during the
curfew hours for anything else outside of that.
we did not have that. We did have the juveniles that
you mentioned that were in violation of the curfew, that
were either taken home or to doctors to be connected with
resources, but there were not arrests for other things during
those time frames. Okay.
and then similar to council member lewis george, I've heard
from youth advocacy organizations that negative
interactions with law enforcement are proven to
increase a young person's chances of deeper justice system
involvement. I want to get your thoughts on
that, and whether you see curfew as a short term stabilization
tool, a long term use safety strategy, or something else.
sure. So I see the enhanced curfew as
a tool, just one tool. It's not the solution to all
issues. There's a lot of underlying
issues that we need to we as a city, not the police department,
necessarily need to address. But of course mpd will be a
partner like we need to. You know, I have a youth
advisory council, the chief's youth advisory council, and I've
met with them a couple of times. One was actually yesterday and
this issue kind of came up, you know, with juveniles and, you
know, hanging out and the different meet ups and things
like that, and, you know, making sure that there's places for
young people to go where there's, you know, a variety of
options across the city is one of the things when there's
nowhere for them to go and things that they feel either
there's nowhere for them to go or things that they, they don't
want to do that are available. Then they make these on their
own kind of events that are out there.
so I think providing more programing in a variety across
the city is a way. And I know those are areas that
when chief smith was here, she was working closely to try to
think of those things. Those are strategies that myself
and executive assistant, right. And our youth and family
engagement division are thinking about.
what can we do as we get closer to warmer times, because we know
there's going to be issues. So I look at the enhanced curfew
as a tool in the toolbox. I don't look at it as the
overall solution, but it is something that we want to have
that ability to do when it's needed.
it is very limited and tailored to the areas that it's in.
even, you know, if there's five people that are in those areas
during that time frame, they're not in violation.
and there are a number of exceptions, but it is a tool
that does allow us to address some of those issues that are
out there. Okay.
and then is this council mandated by law or is this
something you just do? No, it's something that it's
something that actually I believe I'm not sure if chief
conti started or chief smith started, but something that's
been going on for a while, mpd. So we have members across the
city that's on there, and we also have some of our high
school police cadets that's on there as well.
so it's actually a it's actually a good cross section of young
people across the city. And they really have some good
ideas. And, you know, trying to task
them and leverage them of what we can do.
because I come to meetings like this and other meetings where
people ask, what can we do for young people?
and the conversation I have with them is like, you know, people
want to do things to help you, to try to mitigate these.
so, you know, what are the types of things that you would like to
do. And then also on that, even on
our side, trying to have them develop a an event or something
for young people to try to help towards that goal overall.
so this is my my second month that we've met with them since
I've been in this seat. But it's, it's it's really good.
and again, we're trying to not only build the relationship
between young people and law enforcement because there's a
lot of misnomers, there's a lot of misnomers in the community
about law enforcement. So just interacting like police
officers or people just like everybody else.
and, you know, we put on these uniforms and we do a job and it
is our job, but we're people and we have families and we have
lives and we have interests outside of this.
and I think having that connection on the human level
helps people understand each other better.
and since you mentioned this, I'm also curious about how you
see the interventions outside of law enforcement.
like we've heard a lot about dpr's late night hike, violence
interruption, family support. Like how would you prioritize or
rank what you would see as interventions that could be
successful to preventing contact with mpd?
I mean, honestly, I think all those are I think that different
young people have different things that they kind of
gravitate to. There is no like one solution.
I think that's the challenge. You know, I have I have a
teenager or two at home myself and completely different things.
some people want to go out and play basketball.
some people want to go, you know, just hang out with their
friends. So there's a variety of things.
so we have to have a variety of options.
I think late night hype has been good.
but again, looking at how can we change that?
because when we have one location in the city, we get
these huge numbers of kids that go there and then we have
challenges. So what can we do to have
multiple options for children or for young people, not children,
young people across the city to go to that, maybe it sparks
their interest or is closer to their neighborhood.
instead of having to go all the way across the city to to go to
an event. So again, having more, having
them spread out, I think it just gives different options for
different young people. So something that may not grab
this, this young person may grab the attention of the other one.
they want to do something. Okay.
and then shifting back to transparency with federal law
enforcement, I understand that we can't compel federal officers
to provide their name and badge number to the public, and when
residents, my understanding is when residents ask mpd officers
for the name and badge of federal agents, officers
typically instruct to for the residents to defer to the
federal agency for their policy. Have you raised has mpd raised
concerns with federal partners about public identification
practices? It has come up as well.
the concerns about that. There is a concern that we've
raised, obviously, the covering of the face, the providing the
information, the vehicles, because most of these concerns
that come up are when people have things.
it comes to mpd because people come to us asking questions and
then we spend a lot of time trying to run down.
they see a vehicle in the area. They assume it's this
organization or that even though we're not involved, we do our
best to try to mediate that and try to share information, share
concerns with the the federal authorities say no because at
the end of the day, the same thing, like they're having an
impact in the community, right. And if they want to be part of
the task force and work here in the district and like those two
should be concerns of theirs, just like they are for mpd.
thank you. And then on, I believe you've
already been asked on sanctuary act, but have you sought well
one how is mpd currently interpreting and putting it in
practice? The district sanctuary values
act. I'll start there because I
didn't hear the full round. Sure.
you already answered this. Yeah.
so so the law is very specific about mpd coordination.
once individuals in custody, there can be no coordination, no
information sharing with civil immigration authorities.
we cannot ask about individual's immigration status at all.
so any any sharing of any level information can only happen by
the law. Before that, we don't turn
people over from mpd custody into other organizations.
I know there were some some questions that were raised by
both councilman white and councilman parker that obviously
will have to look into that were subject of a washington post
article. Again, I don't have the
specifics on those. I you know, there's lots of
things or reasons that could be. I don't have the answer to that
specifically. And then has mpd ever sought
just a legal opinion on the current status of the sanctuary
act from oag? We haven't I I'm not sure that
we've asked for their their opinion of the act.
I don't know what specifically we would ask them.
I mean, I think the act is legal.
we have policies that since it came into play that we've put in
as far as how we make sure that we're in compliance with it.
obviously, we have our general counsel that also reviews it and
provides guidance to the agency outside of that as well.
and they coordinate usually with the oig and other other
organizations. But we have our own general
counsel office. Okay.
most of my questions, I think I was last in this first round
have been answered. So I will actually yield my
final 45 seconds back to the chair.
okay. Thank you so much, councilor
crawford. Chief carol, I want to give you
an opportunity. If you want to take a five
minute bio break, are you sure? Yes, ma'am.
all right, well, thank you. I'm going to turn back to
councilmember parker for another round.
okay. In response to pre-hearing
question 110, which requested weekly arrest data from joint
federal mpd patrols, mpd notes that, quote, mpd data does not
specifically capture the subset of arrests that occurred while a
task force member was on the scene or on a joint patrol.
end quote. What was the thinking behind the
choice not to capture this data? It's we can't we don't have that
information. It's the same kind of the same
conversation we had. We don't document when we're on
the scene with the task force, when we're not on the scene with
the task force, we document our records management systems,
arrests, stops, incidents that mpd members take reports for.
so again, depending on who's there depends on who may take
that report. This has never been an issue
obviously before this time frame now.
so the system was not built for that.
and I know this is getting at what councilmember pinto was
asking earlier, what type of lift might it require for mpd
officers to document those types of.
we probably have to develop a separate it system to document
it. Why would it need to be
separate? Because it either has to be
separate or have to be billed out somehow.
anything that generally requires modifications of a records
management system costs a lot of money and takes a lot of time.
so there's obviously an input to that to to see what that looks
like. But whatever the system is now,
why can't we just record? The x district resident was
arrested by this partner agency because right now there there
would be there would be no report that was taken.
there would be nothing for mpd officer to report.
there was no crime that occurred.
there's no information that's there.
so, for example, if we made that arrest, we would have that
information. We would have the full
information of the individual. It almost sounds like what
you're talking about is us just taking a report and trying to
get information from a federal agency about the person that
they arrested, especially if a district resident is being
detained. It would provide data to us that
we otherwise don't have right now.
but again, I mean, mpd role is to really I mean, and again, I'm
not trying to be facetious, but it sounds like you're saying we
should go back and reinvestigate what the federal government is
doing to report that information.
potentially, we don't have the information about why they had
the stop, why they didn't have the stop.
and many of these instances, when we do, we are taking the
arrest. But again, it's almost like
we're trying to go back and then get information to take a report
potentially to say what they said, which we may or may not
have all the facts and information for.
I don't think that's a really good idea for us to try to do
that. I understand the want for the
information, but I don't know if trying to take a report to try
to figure out what we think that we observed happening is the
best way, I think more so to get it from the federal law
enforcement agencies would be the cleanest way.
I know there may be challenges to that.
okay. I'm jumping around a little bit
in response to pre-hearing question 37, you noted that
there has been an uptick in juvenile arrests in 2025 by 5%,
despite the launch of the 2025 mpd juvenile investigative
response unit. You note in your response that
teen takeovers are likely responsible for this uptick.
how are how are these takeovers being addressed through that jr
unit or other strategies that so so there's a few strategies.
so some of it a lot of these takeovers that are happening,
and I think I mentioned in one of the questions is young people
are going young or others not always young people are going on
social media and they're putting out teen takeover, navy yard,
union station, wherever it may be.
so we're working with our investigative services bureau to
try to go out and locate those posts.
so we know potentially is happening, depending on where it
is, like, what's the appropriate mitigation strategy?
step one usually is trying to identify the poster and then
reach out to them to see, you know, what's going on.
can we get them to take it down? Do they realize the
repercussions of putting this post up?
step 2nd may be whatever location they're going to.
if they're going to union station, do the other law
enforcement agencies, amtrak, police, for example, they handle
union station or metro transit police.
they handle parts of union station.
are they aware that this is coming so they can make sure
they have the appropriate deployment and strategies that
are there to mitigate any issues that may be there?
so really just trying to work through that.
the goal is to mitigate on the front end versus trying to
respond on the back end. We've seen some of the responses
that have happened on the back end.
the one that comes to mind is the one where the national guard
was chasing young people around the navy yard.
that's not what I want to see. Overall with that.
so whatever we can do to mitigate that on the front end
is the preferred method to try to address that.
I think long term, it's kind of the conversations I was having
with councilwoman crawford was is really we need some
strategies to try to give young people other things to do
besides these these takeovers. Some are saying, bring your
marijuana, bring your alcohol, those kinds of things.
so just trying to negate those, and I would agree with you
fully. And while I don't think this is
your responsibility, that's the charge I've provided to the
deputy mayor. Like we're being asked
authorized or extend a curfew, but we're not being asked to
expand options for young people. So I agree fully.
we need to be thinking about more options for them to do
things responsibly in response to pre-hearing question 180, mpd
notes that 24 members were arrested in fiscal year 25 and
26 to date, there were 21 in fiscal year 25, and it seems
like three so far in 26. What type of adverse actions are
taken against members who are arrested?
yes. So it depends on the type of the
crime. So again, just like anybody
else. So when the when they're
arrested for a crime, administrative investigation
will be begun, once the criminal investigation has completed,
similar to some of the other officer involved shooting and
things like that. If you get arrested, the
criminal part, once it's done, then the administrative part
will begin. Depending on what the the
incident is, it could be everything from, you know,
suspension to termination. Again, you have to weigh the
douglas factors, obviously through the, you know, through
the labor relations regulations and laws, but the information is
presented if there's sustained allegation of misconduct,
whatever that may be, depending on what is sustained or which
charges they may be, multiple charges that are sustained
depends on the outcome. And of course, they have they're
depending on if they're in the union or not.
they have kind of their their protections that are built in
from the go through that. But it could be everything from
termination to suspension. Our officers are allowed to
remain on active duty while under investigation.
so generally as soon as you're arrested, you're placed on
what's called non contact. Your police powers are taken
away. You know, obviously you don't
have a firearm or anything like that.
and until such time as is determined that you can return
to a full duty status, where is the force size as of today, I
believe it's 3144 47 as of earlier this week.
and. Obviously that poses challenges
in terms of capacity for the agency.
how how is mpd thinking about the size of our force and
accommodating based on dispatch and or coverage of the district?
so, I mean, a couple of things is we need to get the numbers
back up. A lot of the concerns we have
with these federal folks that are here in the city, if we had
higher numbers, maybe they wouldn't be here.
so so it's it's a true priority to try to get more officers into
the agency. With that being said, there's a
lot of challenges as far as the hiring bonuses, some of the
educational requirements, things that I've talked about with
that, along with that, what needs to happen is we need to
look at doing a redistricting to look at the overall every so
many years within the agency, we do what's called a redistricting
process, where we look at calls for service density and economic
development and things that may have happened.
for example, did a new did the wharf get built since the last
time that we we did redistricting for a realignment
of patrol districts within there to make sure that the resources
are allocated appropriately? It's a very long process,
usually a year plus process to do all that, to make sure that
we're ready to go on january 1st of the prior year.
so that's a conversation that has come up with something to
look forward to at this point in this year.
it's probably too late to have it in play for next year, but
again, moving forward so we can have that for january 1st.
the following year to have everything in play, because
there's things that have to happen as far as reallocation of
the ms., the master address repository, the ouc dispatching
and how they do it and where the locations.
so there's a lot that goes into it after the analysis is done.
okay. According to figures between
january 2018 and january of this year, mpd lost 658 officers, or
18% of the force. What is particularly notable is
that the amount of officers on the streets or on patrol, or
responding to 911 calls has been reduced by 32% over the same
period. That means that almost a third
of all officers and police service areas have been
reassigned to headquarters or administrative work.
is that that doesn't sound accurate?
that does not sound that doesn't sound accurate.
we we have less administrative people now probably than we've
ever had. We've also worked to
civilianized certain areas. So we're not heavy on on that
aspect. As far as patrol officers and
personnel. So I'd like to dig into that a
little bit more. Okay.
are you able to follow up? Yeah, we'll follow up in a week.
yeah. On that as well.
I think that sounds reasonable. If we have any issues.
and the question there is, if you can speak to the decline in
the force and the coverage of street patrolling versus
administrative coverage. Yes, sir.
my colleague, councilmember henderson, touched on the
overtime requirements. But let me just generally ask,
is there a ceiling or what is the guidance around overtime?
I totally get why you're paying officers overtime, but is there
any guidance or parameters that inform how much officer can make
overtime? Not necessarily how much an
officer can make, but over time, it's not like an open thing,
like, hey, I want to work overtime, so I do.
so there's specific initiatives and reasons why officers work
overtime. You know, a lot of overtime that
we have are related to special events.
may they be the rock and roll marathon kind of thing, or
federal special events that are out there.
think of things like potus movements and things like that,
where traffic posts have to be staffed.
so you have those things. Any sort of overtime, the
officers have to there's there's a need that's developed through
in those cases, usually the special operations division of
whatever that operational plan looks like.
and then it's put out to to the force for them to staff those
overtime spots that are out there.
there's other overtime like patrol districts are short for a
variety of reasons. Maybe it's the fact that, you
know, there's eight people that are out on sick leave and
there's people that were already approved for annual leave.
so staffing on a shift is down a few people.
so then they would need to use overtime to to fill those open
shifts, because individuals that are on sick leave or things like
that, if the numbers are below the staffing spikes in crime, if
we have a spike, if we have a rash of burglaries in the area,
we may develop an operational plan to address those burglaries
in the area, using overtime personnel to be able to focus on
that while we still maintain operations across the city.
in those cases, there have been operational plan that's
developed within the patrol operations side.
it would be approved for a specific time frame to address
that issue. And then once that issue goes
away again, continually reevaluating how we're using the
resources and what the plan is with that.
so there's a few different ways that that happens as far as
overtime with that. It's not just you can come in
and work overtime. And do you have the figure of
where we are as of today? In overtime?
I do. Miss campbell can give it to you
again. Are we referring to the overtime
for fiscal 26? Yes, yes.
for fiscal year 26. Our local overtime is $26.8
million. How much?
just making sure. I heard that was 26.8 million.
26.8. And what was the total for
fiscal year? 25 mogle overtime for fiscal
year 25. What what I'm showing here is
76.7. That came through, right?
that can't be right. 76.7 for the entire fiscal year
for overtime. Okay.
how are you differentiating local versus any other overtime.
so anything that is non-local is funded through either epsf or
reimbursed or. Sorry.
so in other words, $26.8 million so far of our local dollars have
gone to overtime. Yes, sir.
what was the total amount for fiscal year 26 so far?
of all funded? Yes, it is.
sorry. Sorry.
41.6. And what about for the entire
fiscal year? 25?
130 3.8? That sounds right.
okay. What internal controls, if any,
has mpd placed on overtime spending?
yeah. So we have a biweekly overtime
report that goes out to to judge where we're at.
as I said, anytime overtime is used, there's an operational
plan that's approved or deployed for that outside of things like
like a staffing shortage, for example, I gave you the earlier.
so there's not overtime that's just out there that commanders
can just hey, we want to put people out there.
there's got to be a need for a plan of how we're going to
deploy those resources and how we're going to try to address
the underlying issue. And then a reevaluation of that
to see, you know, has the issue been addressed, resolved?
is there a way we can minimize that so we can use less
resources? You know, if it's a if it's a
robbery pattern in a certain area and that we make an arrest
in the pattern goes away, then obviously we wouldn't need that.
so it's really looking at the effects of that and how we're
how we're impacting crime or whatever the underlying issue
is. If it's potus or special events,
obviously that's built on whatever that event is, whatever
the staffing is needed for that, including crowd control and
traffic posts and all the other assets that may be associated
with that tactical assets. Okay, I will leave it there for
the sake of time, but obviously we're talking a lot as a
district about financial pressures and the the state of
our budget. And routinely agencies are
overspending. Now I get why mpd is paying
overtime and overspending, but it I would love to see more
internal controls to in fact ensure that that is the last
resort that we're looking to paying overtime and not better
strategizing around coverage and or patrols or what have you.
so I look forward to following up on that.
but thank you for your testimony today.
yes, sir. Thank you very much, counselor
parker. Thanks for being here, chief.
is any of the $90 million allocation that we receiving for
emergency services from the federal government able to be
spent on local overtime? No.
so my understanding. And, patricia, you can jump in
here is that's related to the ipsf funds.
so the the federal federal side, which drives a lot of overtime
to but because it drives so much overtime, is that not a
permissible use. No.
so we use it for overtime. We use the that that funding
stream we do use for overtime. But there's got to be a federal
nexus related to it. So things like potus overtime
president moves, things like that or special events.
july 4th or some of these events that are coming up, this, this,
this summer's america, 250 events, things like that.
those can be charged back to those types of sources.
so maybe asked a different way, is all of the $90 million being
spent to cover federally connected overtime?
I don't know if I don't I don't think all 90 of it's coming just
to mpd. So I can't speak to what it's
all being used for. I'm sure a portion will be to
help out with the events associated with the summer, but
I don't know is all the money that mpd is receiving from that
fund going towards overtime coverage?
yeah, it is. So we determine what is eligible
for ipsf reimbursement, and that is submitted through the office
of the chief financial officer. And then they transfer that to
ep0. But of what you get for mpd is
that all from overtime. Receive it.
we get reimbursed for it. Okay.
all of your reimbursement through ipsf.
yes. Yeah.
it's for overtime, not no. Sometimes we have some
non-personnel costs very minimal that also get reimbursed if
there's a federal nexus. Yes.
like the vans ct for example, we have large activations.
we may have to get additional vans or something like that.
that would be for that special event.
state of the union. Full activation vans.
that could also because there's a federal nexus to that.
like last night okay, okay. So returning to the task force,
we have federal agents who are here who are not trained by mpd,
who are not familiar with our laws, our customs, our
community, how we operate. Has mpd trained any of these
agents on mpd best practices? We have not changed them on our
best practices. No, we haven't.
is that something that you think we should start doing?
there's been conversations within the task force to start
joint training between the agencies to in areas of focus or
areas of that. So that's definitely an area we
can look at. It's something that they
started, I think about a couple weeks ago to try to look at some
joint training. So that may be an area we can
leverage, especially some of the cons, to reinforce some of the
community concerns that we've already had related to their
deployment. So yeah, it's definitely an area
we can look at. Okay.
and I know it's always hard to to prove what could have
happened in a different scenario, but with the philip
brown case, I would posit that if that had been an mpd officer,
perhaps they wouldn't have fired their gun because your training
is different than the training, right?
I'm not. I would imagine our training is
definitely different. Level of repetition is
definitely different. Our officers are trained to be
police officers on the street, but they also go out and take
hundreds and hundreds of calls a year every officer.
so again, the there's there's one level which you learn
through training. There's actual like field
training that we do on the street.
when you get to the academy, you ride with another mpd officer.
so again, you reinforce and learn the nuances of what you
were taught in the academy. And then just from responding
from calls, I mean, you're always, you know, just like how
laws are always changing. You're always trying to improve
your training. But yeah, I mean, as you go to
calls, you learn things too. So experience helps as well.
okay. So in the case of philip brown
where mpd was on the scene with agents and an agent shot into
his car, and luckily he was not killed, but the the bullet went
right through his jacket. There was an mpd investigation.
you referred that case to the u.s. Attorney's office.
they declined to prosecute the case.
why was that body worn camera footage not released to the
public? Sure.
so it's like we spoke about. It's like we spoke about
earlier. So the way the d.c. Code is
written is relates to relates to the bwc is it has to be an mpd
member using the serious use of force.
there was no mpd member using serious use of force.
therefore, for us to release it would not be in compliance with
the law. Okay, so as you know, yesterday
I introduced a bill that would clarify that if mpd officers are
on a scene and have body worn camera footage and they're with
a federal agent who uses a serious use of force, then that
release would have to be made public within five days.
I am familiar with that. There is another way right now
under the law, that if there is a great public interest, the the
mayor, the executive has the ability to release bwc as well.
so that is another method that could be used if there was a
great public interest. And I know there's the law,
there's some collaboration between the mayor, the u.s.
attorney, the oag, the investigating agencies that are
related with that. But but there is another way
that it could be. But based in this case, there
wasn't a determination of a great public interest.
but I am familiar. I did hear that there was some
you introduced some some legislation.
well, I think this case is an example of why that is so
concerning, because I would say there is a great public interest
in reviewing that footage. A serious public interest, and
it hasn't been released. And so.
to just say, well, she could if she needed to, it doesn't really
apply. I was just giving you the two
options. Yeah.
I wasn't making a judgment. Yeah.
okay. I mean, you talked about some of
the limitations that we have with federal agencies.
do you think that exposure to that bwc, in the event of a
serious use of force, would improve public transparency and
trust with mpd? I mean, I think the the easy
answer is yes, but I think the real answer is it depends on
what it shows and what's out there.
the police reports released out there is another piece of
evidence that's out there. In this case.
I haven't seen that bwc, so I don't know what it looks like.
I know some people have seen it. I personally haven't, but again,
I know there are some folks that that would like to have that
that's not what's currently in the law.
and that's why we didn't release it.
okay. You spoke earlier with me about
and I don't want to put words in your mouth, but the message I
received you saying was, it's actually better for d.c. To be
working with these federal agents so that they're not kind
of roaming the streets without without mpd.
they're kind of advising on deployment and other things.
so do you have cooperative agreements with all of these
agencies? No.
so, so I, I think it's better that we're there in trying to
guide them to the areas that we need.
obviously, we can't make them or control them, but I do think our
input and our our information to try to, to, to, to mold that, I
think is important. There are not cooperative
agreements with these federal agencies.
we do have cooperative agreements with with agencies in
most cases. Those are small agencies that
have a limited jurisdiction. So what those are is by engaging
in a cooperative agreement, it gives them the authority to
usually it's expanding to a larger area outside their
building. So I think something like like
the police and they want to be able to patrol outside of their
confines of their property. The sidewalks and roadways
around that. That's what almost all of their
cooperative agreements are. The other agencies don't need
mpd authority to do what they do.
they have their own authority to do that.
so they don't need usually an example like for example, the
police, they need us to provide them that authority to be able
to do that. They don't have that within
themselves. The other agencies have their
own authorities under federal law.
some under d.c. Law, like the park police, to allow them to do
what they do without a cooperative agreement.
do you think it would be better to have a cooperative agreement
with all these agencies who are on the task force?
I don't think it would be helpful to us because there's no
there's no benefit to them to engage in a cooperative
agreement. They don't need the authorities.
most people that we have them with like they they are looking
for that because they need those authorities.
they don't need these authorities.
so it doesn't really benefit them to to come to us to engage
with that. But I mean, would it benefit us?
I don't I don't know if it would benefit us.
I think and I'm sure you're probably trying to think under
the lens of our ability to control them under the
cooperative. The cooperative agreement, or
try to to kind of mold what what they're doing.
I don't know if it would actually really do that, or they
would engage in something that would limited the authorities.
they have under federal law already.
so I don't know how realistic it is.
it might be a better way to put it.
I get the concept and I get the idea of trying to help to get
them underneath the kind of doing the same kinds of things
that we're doing the way that we do.
I get the idea. I don't think that it would be
beneficial to them to try to do that, because they don't need
that. And if anything, it could be
seen as limiting the authorities.
they have. That's just my opinion.
okay. So I need to ask you about this
washington post story from today where the man, argueta, alleges
that mpd called him and said that they found his stolen car.
and then when he got to the district station, ice was there
and said that they had found out his immigration status.
sure. So again, I haven't read the
article. I did hear about it.
I think several council members have mentioned it.
there could be a lot of reasons. Again, anything that I try to
explain or say why it could be would be conjecture, and we have
to investigate it and to look into it.
was it an np member that called them like all those things?
obviously it's it's out there. It's an allegation.
I don't know if there's a lawsuit associated or if it's
just a news story, but we'll have to look into it to see
exactly what happened. Those facts, as I just presented
them. Does that sound like something
that could have happened with mpd?
like what? It doesn't sound like something
that we would do. No.
is it outside the realm of possibility?
I mean, things can happen. Would it be a violation of our
policy? Kind of on the surface, what it
sounds like. Yeah, it sounds like it would
be. But again, was it a mpd officer?
was it a voice on the phone? There's a lot of nuances that an
investigation will have to dig into to determine, like what it
really was. Was it whenever the initial
incident happened, there were other agencies there, so they
knew about it. And then they decided to call
and have this person come in under a ruse.
there's lots of things that are there.
but again, all that's just conjecture.
I don't have the specifics. I don't want to try to tinge it
one way or the other. Okay.
but if that was an mpd officer, based on what it sounds like in
that in that case, would that be a violation of mpd?
again, it sounds like it would be, but it's something we'd have
to investigate and to ferret out.
we have anytime there's an allegation of misconduct, we
have to investigate it to get all the angles and look at it
and make a determination with the available evidence.
is there an active investigation?
literally, I heard about the story.
I think it came out while we were in here or just before we
came in here. So it's something we'll have to
look into. It sounds like maybe there's two
incidences. So it's something that our
internal affairs folks will have to look into.
okay. I would appreciate that if we
could look and we could follow, we'll follow back up with you,
get some more information, because I imagine and again, I
don't know this, but that by the time it got to a news story,
there may have already been a complaint made would be my
guess. There could be.
there could be. Again, there's a lot of
conjecture. There could be a lawsuit, there
could be a complaint, there could be a lot of things.
sometimes people go to the news and report things, and maybe
they haven't filed a complaint yet too.
so it depends. Okay.
well, I appreciate you looking into that.
now I want to ask you about mr. Bailey's shooting.
so I heard you speak earlier about the hcy canvas on site.
can you just walk me through again exactly what happened.
who was called, and when mpd arrived to the scene, then why
were u.s. Marshals involved in that incident at all?
yes, I think I think we're referring to the incident that
happened at the convenience store case.
I wasn't involved in that. February 11th us marshals.
yeah, park police and the marshals were were involved.
at my understanding. Again, this is under
investigation. So the actual officer involved
shooting pieces. You know, we'll have to kind of
be part of that in the parking lot.
the information we have initially is the call came out
for an individual armed with a gun.
mpd officers were dispatched. They responded to that location
where they then talked to the complainant who who filed the
report at some point while they were on scene, individuals from
park police, the marshal showed up.
there was some sort of dialog and then they left.
but hold on, just pause. At some point they showed up.
yes. Why did that happen?
well, they came on their own as my understanding.
so park police have access to mpd radio channels.
they have for many, many years. It's nothing new or related to
the task force so they can hear calls for service.
what about the us marshals? I don't think they have access
to district radio zones. There are mutual aid channels
that they that they share with us.
right. But I don't think they have
access to our district radio zones that are out there.
how would they have known to show up there with the park
police? They were physically they were
together. They weren't in the same car,
but they were together. They were working together.
I don't know if they were on a team together or what that looks
like, but they were together. So do you think?
and I know you're investigating this, but do you think that the
park police heard over the radio that mpd was called, and then
the park police called the us marshal and said, we need backup
for a call. We weren't even called to know.
and this is all an assumption. I have no factual basis.
this my assumption is the marshals and the park police
were already together. They heard the call for a man
with a gun in the area and they went to it.
that would be my assumption. And is that common?
it is. I mean, it is for law
enforcement agencies that if they hear a call for an armed
individual, a shooting, something serious, if they were
in the area, it wouldn't be unusual for them to come in
typical normal two years ago with the marshals, be with the
park police. Usually not.
but in this case they were the us marshals trained in policing.
I'm I'm not specifically I don't know what they're trained in.
I know they're trained law enforcement officers.
I know that they generally do investigations and apprehend
fugitives is one of the many things they also do.
you know, there's a variety of functions they have as far as
federal courthouses and federal prisons and things like that.
I know that they are, of course, lead the the fugitive task force
that that handles serious cases that are here.
but again, what their specific training is, I can't say on the
fugitive task force side, the cases that they're handling,
though, on the back end in investigations, not engaging
with an individual who so usually they're they're looking
for an individual that has a warrant out for their arrest.
so a person who may have committed usually it's serious
cases, murders, serious individuals that may be very
dangerous, things like that. And do they in those cases do
they usually call mpd to come with them for those cases?
no. So mpd park police, it's a it's
a fugitive task force. So all these area agencies, pg
county, they're all already on the task force together as they
go out. Right?
I guess what I'm trying to get at is in that, in that example
that you're talking about, the fugitive task force, and there's
a warrant out for someone's arrest, would it be common that
the us marshals would call mpd to come with them to make the
arrest? We'd already be there from from
the beginning when they're going to look for the person, they
work as a standing task force that report together, not just
mpd, park police. All the agencies work as a
standing task force because the warrants are ones that are held
by mpd, held by the marshals, held by a variety of agencies,
but isn't part of the benefit of you being there because you are
trained in how to make an arrest, how to deescalate?
we have our body worn cameras on us to ensure that that is
carried out in a safe and just manner.
yeah, I mean, I would say that that's part of it.
and the same thing, I mean, the marshals portion of the
marshals. And again, I don't know what
this looks like, had body worn cameras in many of the other
agencies that are on the task force to do as well.
again, you know how a pg county officer is trained versus mpd
officer or park police officer. They're a little different.
there's similarities that are in there, but the nuances are
different, right? Just like with we were going
into pg county or virginia or somewhere like that, right.
the home agency officers know that area.
you know, they have the information to be more helpful
than officers from other like us, from another jurisdiction.
so your officers stayed on scene at the convenience store.
so, yeah, again, my understanding is initially they
got the call, they got the information, they go there, they
make contact with the individual that called.
at some point the marshals and park police come by there.
they leave shortly thereafter. Our officers leave and they hear
gunshots. And then shortly after the
shooting, they arrive on the scene where the marshals and the
park police are at. And what did the marshals say to
you? I don't have that information.
that's that's the part that's part of the officer involved
shooting, which obviously still is under investigation and part
of a criminal investigation. So those details are part of
that. We can't I can't talk about it
publicly. And frankly, in a normal
scenario, I'm a big truster in the process that there would be
an investigation and then there would be a prosecution if
someone violated the law. But we just saw in the case from
a couple of months ago where you all conducted your
investigation, referred the case to the u.s. Attorney's office,
and they declined to prosecute. And so I don't have the level of
trust that I normally would that this federal government is
actually going to investigate and pursue charges.
if somebody did violate the law or did shoot a man without
justification. So from mpd's perspective, how
do we ensure the community's safety if we have agents who are
not trained in our laws, who are not wearing body worn cameras,
and we don't have insight into the status of the investigation?
yeah. I mean, from perspective, that's
why as much as we can do to try to work and collaborate with
them, I think it's better for the community because things
like this can happen again. They were with park police.
park police is in the city. I mean, they police the city all
the time. But I think that goes back to
the benefit of us trying to work together with them versus, you
know, just want to be a separation.
but again, at the end of the day, they're independent law
enforcement officers. They have their own training,
they have their own authorities that we can't control with that.
so it's a it's a situation that we're in.
it's a situation that always was there before.
this isn't new for the marshals or for park police, but it's a
situation that now it comes to the forefront of everyone's
minds as this task force is in operation.
okay, I'm over time, so I'm going to move on.
but I think this example and this tragedy really speaks to
the gaps here, because on one hand, if you're saying we have
this benefit, if we're coordinating in this case, we
didn't even have mpd officers on site.
so it kind of feels like on some areas there's a benefit, but
then if it's not actually happening with the deployment,
it's hard to see. But I'm going to turn to my
colleague, ward 3 colleague, councilmember matt frumin, for a
15 minute round. Thank you very much,
chairperson. Yes, sir.
nice to see you. Well, I'm going to I'm going to
stay on this just for a second because on the philip brown
case, when there's a referral, that means the mpd internal
investigation determined that there was a basis for a criminal
prosecution, and therefore it's referred to.
is that right? No.
so any officer involved shooting, regardless of what it
is, it's always referred to us attorney to make the final
determination. Is there a what is what do you
send to the us attorney's offices at a recommendation?
does it include a recommendation?
no. So it's a full outline of all
the information that's been discovered.
may there be video evidence, statements that are provided by
the officers, statements that are provided by witnesses, the
same thing that we would have in in any other criminal situation
we present to them. They have a public corruption
section of the us attorney's office that then reviews that,
and then they make a determination.
do they want to move forward with prosecution or do they not
want to move forward with prosecution?
so whenever you do this, it doesn't involve a
recommendation. It just involves a report of
what you determined were the facts.
that's correct. We present them with the facts
and then they make a determination.
they evaluate the information that's there.
so then there was a conversation about the body worn camera
footage. But what about that report?
are those reports made public our our body worn cameras.
know your report to the to the us attorney upon which they make
a determination to decline or pursue prosecution.
no, that's that's a criminal investigation.
so of course that's not a public investigation.
just like any other criminal. Criminal investigation is out
there. Any video that's in there, we
would be the same as any other criminal investigation, a
homicide or anything else that's presented.
so how how does the I mean, this is an event that is of deep
concern to people in the community, to folks in the
community. They don't have the opportunity
to see the report that you provided to the us attorney.
they don't have the opportunity to see the footage that might
have been included in that report.
all we know is a report was done.
we don't know what the it wouldn't have had a
recommendation, but it would have had a description of the
facts. And the us attorney's
determination not to pursue a prosecution.
and the police report that was taken.
if we in general, in these cases, we take a police report
of whatever the initial thing is.
sometimes another agency may take that initial police report.
and is that document public? I mean, if there's if there's a
police report that's taken for like a discharge of a service
pistol or things like that, that mpd takes, it is a public
report. Yes.
so many times, I don't know, in this case, if I can't tell you
right now, off the top of my head, if we took the report or
not, because the investigation is still there, we can follow up
and let you know. I don't know if we took the
report or if the marshals took a report, or if park police took a
report, because we got to this scene afterwards.
it wasn't like we were there when it happened.
internal affairs did respond out and they are investigating that
aspect of it. I mean, you can I think you do
appreciate the frustration in the community about this
terrible thing happened. There's precious little
information that's available that there's information that is
out there, but there's precious little information that's
available. There is not, shall we say, not
a high degree of confidence in the u.s. Attorney's office,
willingness to pursue any kind of case like this.
and so we feel naked to the wind.
and so how do we get out of that?
no, I understand that. And so everyone looks to mpd to
try to provide that information. But again, we have to be bound
by the law and what we can provide.
I understand mpd has high expectations of the community,
100% understand that, but they are their own agency.
they have their own internal processes.
once the criminal aspect is done, either they'll be a
criminal prosecution which will go through the regular public
process, or if a declination is determined, then there'll be
whatever administrative process, however they do that within that
agency. That's not something that mpd
can control or has control of. I hear you, and we're all in an
incredibly difficult situation, and part of what you're saying
is, in some ways, it's better if mpd is approximate, because mpd
can maybe play some kind of role to try to influence.
yes. And in some ways, the
convenience store story makes that point at the, the, the
firearms are discharged when mpd is not there.
and so and maybe this is the case in both situations that the
firearm is discharged when mpd is not there.
but we have these operations happening inside of our city,
out of our control, out of your control, and with very limited
information and transparency about it.
so you can I don't envy. Absolutely.
no, I do like I said, we don't we don't want to be in this
position, in this position at all.
it's a position that we find ourselves in.
and it's very challenging because a lot of people are
looking. I mean, in my opinion, we have a
good relationship with the community.
so people come to us for that information and the ability for
us to be in a situation where we don't have it.
it's not our agency, it's not our officers.
we don't have that. It is challenging.
I do understand the frustration, though, and I know I'm I'm late.
there's a lot of different big things happening today and and
I'm sure I'm treading territory that's already been tread.
but on the immigration side, here's the way that I understand
it, is that all federal law enforcement has been deputized
to do immigration. And so the task force includes
mpd and representatives of all federal law enforcement.
mpd is not doing immigration enforcement.
ice isn't part of the task force.
so mpd is not working with ice. But all of the federal agencies
have the capacity to do immigration enforcement.
and then the question becomes, to what extent is mpd actively
facilitating immigration enforcement?
that's what worries d.c. Residents.
and that's why this story about an mpd officer calling someone,
it may not be an mpd officer, it could be somebody else who's
doing it, but it it underscores to what extent is mpd an active
facilitator of this, and to what extent is mpd trying to moderate
it? And it puts everybody in a very
challenging situation. But I wonder if you can speak to
that. And including what kind the
challenge comes up doubly again because of transparency.
when you answer the question, how often does it happen?
so so part of what's out there is it used to be that ice was
operating on its own in the city and doing warrantless arrests,
and that got stopped. And so that has not happening in
the same way as it was happening in the fall.
and I actually am not hearing about immigration enforcement as
much today as I was a month or two ago.
but we don't have any data. And are you in any way tracking
with the crime suppression units?
how often has it happened that one of the other federal
partners arrested somebody, even if it's not in the database, are
you tracking it in even an informal sort of way?
no, we're not. And this has come up again in a
kind of a variety of ways. And I understand there's a want
for mpd to be able to provide what the federal government is
doing, but we don't have that ability.
and for our officers to try to go around and figure out what
they're doing when they're doing it.
I mean, it doesn't make much sense.
I definitely understand the concerns.
and you're absolutely right. We are in a precarious
situation. Mpd is not trying to facilitate
immigration enforcement. There is no benefit to mpd to
facilitate immigration enforcement.
all this conversation does even that story.
if it turns out that the person that called was not mpd, that
will not ever make the headlines.
that will never be a big talking point.
that will the the interpretation from many people will be,
regardless if it's true or not, that mpd did that.
and that's what hurts us. Right.
and the fact to your point about the credibility.
so I definitely understand that, you know, for us it's a big
concern. We don't want to be in those
situations, but it is a precarious situation because to
your point, just about every federal agency could.
and if we go out to make an arrest for whatever and a u.s.
marshal decides to all of a sudden try to do some
immigration enforcement, then we're there and it's going to
look like we are, and things will be.
mpd took them there for this. Like all these things will come
up, and that's not the purpose of it.
but again, it paints us in a bad light.
I mean, do you are you thinking about ways to try to not be
painted in such a bad light, to be able to provide information
so that you can ameliorate some of the concerns?
I mean, I, I don't think there's any easy solutions, and I know
there's a want for like try to have mpd to figure out what the
federal government is doing. I don't think that's the
solution. I don't think having our
officers don't know what they're doing.
they don't know what they've done before the officers get
there. It's the same conversation about
our officers trying to determine what types of force they're
doing and what they aren't doing.
like we don't have that information.
and do you really want to mpd officer trying to second guess
what happened there? That just puts us even farther
into that situation than it is. And looks like we're even more
trying to facilitate or get into that.
so like, I understand the want and I know if there is an easy
solution, either mpd or the council or somebody else would,
would have come up with that solution because it takes it
away from a lot of us. Right.
but I don't think that it's quite there yet, and I don't I
don't have the solution for you today, but I guess I do want the
council and mpd and the mayor to be partners in trying to find a
path to a solution where these concerns, because I think it's
going to it. You've said it, they're going to
be gone and you're you're going to have to operate and
rebuilding confidence in the community is going to be a giant
project. That sort of has to be starting
now, even as you're in this conundrum.
so I, I'd encourage let's we should all be looking for what's
the path. I am sensitive to the fact that
hammers have come down and they were worse.
and we don't want a hammer to come down.
like I think you allude to this. Do you want these?
do you want many more of these people on our streets, on their
own? Is that a better outcome for the
district? That's a legitimate question and
a legitimate fear. But how we navigate through this
process, that's the challenge. And we should be working
together to try to find that solution.
no, I agree with you 100%, sir. There was the reference to I'm
going to move to what I think is more mundane.
I think frankly, that's the giant challenge in front of the
agency. And for you personally, here you
are in this really difficult moment.
and so that's the big question. But back to some of the overtime
things. I guess when I think about those
numbers, 26 million in overtime, that's that's overtime for local
purposes. And then last year it was 76
million for the whole year. We're we're a third of the way
through the year. We're on the exact same track.
we have not increased overtime nor have we decreased it.
how could we decrease it? Well, I don't know if that's
actually a fair comparison, because since last year there
has been an increase in the collective bargaining.
the officers get paid more now than they did last year.
so that just to put that out there.
so even though regardless if he worked the same amount of hours,
we would still have a higher price versus this year.
you know me, how I look at the lens is what are ways that we
can cut down, especially now as things are, you know, calmer out
there because there may come a time when we need to increase
some of our initiatives that we have out there.
some of our standing initiatives are thrive, which is our
homicide reduction plan is out there.
and those overtime is used to help give additional resources
in those areas, because we know that those areas drive a
majority or not majority. A large portion of violent
crime. And by keeping crime down those
areas, it has an impact in safety in the overall city.
so there's initiatives that are initiatives that we have, like
the thrive robbery suppression initiative, where we focus on
areas where there's pattern robberies to deploy resources.
again, back to plans and metrics and putting resources out there.
but no, it's definitely an area that we're looking at of how can
we work to cut down. With that being said, if crime
spikes up or we need to deploy additional resources because
we're seeing a trend, we're going to have to shift shift
resources and use over time. I mean, for us, the challenge is
we are down so many officers. It drives so much overtime, and
overtime gets paid at a much higher rate than regular
officer's salary. So and I thought I heard I have
been listening in and out. Did you say we're down 638?
how many officers? So we have 31 I think 44 or 47
as of this week. And, you know, somewhere between
3800 and 4000 is where we should be.
I think when I came on the police department, we were
closer to 3900. You know, almost 24 years ago.
with that being said. But I believe the amount of
overtime that we use we looked at could be almost like 800
officers. I think we somewhere in the
response to the questions, we give an estimate of how many
officers like that would be the difference of because back to I
mean, we talk about root causes, the lack of officers brings in
federal people trying to, quote unquote, help us, brings in
driving up overtime, things like that.
so a lot of these challenges also have a link back to our
staffing challenge. And what's what's happening in
terms of trends. Were we a year ago, were we if
we're 3150 now a year ago, where we 3150 or were we a higher
number? No, we were a higher number.
we're a little less, I think, from this year versus last year.
it's about a hundred, maybe a little, a little less than 100
people. We have less this year than we
have last year, last year where we had the least amount of
retirements and resignations that we had, like in the past
ten years. So on that aspect, we're seeing
less people leaving. But as far as the actual number
of people getting in the classes, we aren't seeing a huge
uptick. And now with the task force,
there's agencies that are part police is offering $70,000
hiring bonus, are offering a 25% retention bonus.
so not only are they getting a lot of officers, some from mpd
are leaving to go to park police because of these things.
they're also pulling in a lot of other folks who may be looking
to come to this area to be law enforcement.
when they see things like that, you know, they go there versus
coming to mpd because policing at park police is is not
anywhere near like policing mpd chairperson pinto, can I go for
thank you very much. I mean, I had not thought about
it that way in terms of the competition for resources and
that's another incredibly corrosive impact.
so we we are left more dependent because our numbers go down and
they're able to pay much more. Very troubling.
the and I'm sure this has been tried before, but there's there
had been the controversy around the data on reporting crimes.
and I wonder where things stand on that.
and in that process, I had folks reach out and say, well, why
doesn't mpd publicize data like chicago does?
which is a very complete set of data.
so how are you thinking about the controversy around crime
statistics, and how are you thinking about changing the data
that is made available, or are you thinking about changing the
data that is made available to the public so that it tells an
irrefutable story? No, no.
so on that topic, obviously there were investigations that
that came from both congressional inquiry, us
attorney, the mayor asked the the office of the inspector
general to look into the crime data.
so that investigation continues there at that.
so, you know, while we're waiting for some of those
recommendations, we're not just sitting waiting for
recommendations. There's some areas that have
been quickly identified. Things like we've already pushed
out training to our officers about classification crimes to
make sure that they're to reinforce the classifications of
crimes in the elements thereof. What does that mean?
there are elements are certain requirements that make a a
charge underneath d.c. Co code. Some can be very similar.
so making sure that our officers have clarity, especially on some
of those charges that are that are challenging, pushing out
circulars on how we reconcile report numbers to make sure
we're accounting for all that moving forward.
we pull together a team within the agency to look at
recommendations. Some of the things longer term,
pushing forward outside of whatever recommendations we get
from the inspector general and our our other investigations are
instituting a staff review model or an independent group within
the department that's not associated with patrol
operations or any bureau that will not only review all the
reports they'll review to make sure they're completed
accurately, to make sure that the elements of the of the crime
match the classification that's there.
this is something that we had years ago.
and then when we switched to a newer records management system,
it was made much more automated so that that staff review
portion, the manual portion was taken out for efficiency.
but I think an unintended consequence was that as you
didn't have the the human eyes looking at those elements.
so having that that independent look at there to make sure that
the reports are complete, that they're accurate, that it meets
their if not, they can be flagged to be addressed with
that. That's going to be key.
just regardless of kind of where we get to the actual stats.
now, when we talk about looking at crime stats and how we report
stats, there was a shift from the fbi about how they report
stats in 2021. They moved from the the ucr srs
system, which is a system that was developed in the 1960s.
I won't bore you with the details, but the methodology and
kind of how that work is different than to the system,
they call it nibrs that they now use to report data.
when we migrated to that system, we are reporting data to the fbi
under the nibrs category monthly as required.
but we still continue to use dcr, the district's crime
reporting index for crime deployment strategies.
one of the things that I want to look at as we kind of look
through and look at some of the recommendations that come out of
this report, is, is there a way to leverage nibrs classifies all
crime types that are out there and put them in there.
there's, I believe, 50. There's two categories.
I think it's a and b, but there's like 50 and one and ten
the other, which gives a, I think, a more holistic view of
what that looks like. So looking at how we can
leverage that data. So we do have more information
that's out there, I think that will put us more in line with
the best practices that are is used in the nibrs methodology.
so we're looking at like, what does that look like, what
impacts will that have a challenge with.
that is if we were to go to fully to nibrs comparison under
the old crime systems would not really be there because it's a
whole different methodology of how you do it.
so you lose that benefit, right? That hindsight of data.
so we're looking at like, what is the best, the best way to
make sure that we're being transparent and we have the best
data for deployment. We use this crime data for
deployment of resources officers.
we talked a little earlier about, you know, our district
realignments and things like that.
so the data is very important to how we deploy resources.
so our team is together kind of looking at that and to push the
best path forward. And then of course we'll take
any recommendations that come out of these reports and marry
that in there to the path. Okay, I'm way, way over.
sorry. No no no, no.
I'm very appreciative of the answer.
I would tell you my gut is going to the more complete set of
data, even if it undermined the ability to do backward looks for
a period of time. I think it would be valuable.
but just one person's not that informed view.
so thank you for your testimony and thank you for your service.
yes, sir. Thank you, councilmember frumin,
I find you very informed. So okay.
thank you for being here. Councilmember crawford, are you
still on? Yes, but I don't have any other
questions. Thanks.
okay, great. Okay, so, chief, talk to me
about where we are with violent crime, how the trends have been
going. What has been working?
you talked a little bit about in your pre-hearing responses, your
change of methodology, of identifying hotspots and how
you're tracking gun violence data.
how has that worked in practice? What's been effective?
yeah, I mean, I think overall hotspot policing, I mean, it's
proven to be effective to drive down crime in some areas without
having too much displacement of crime that's out there.
so right now, as we sit today, violent crime is down 29%.
I believe property crime is also down 29%.
and overall crime is an area that we are starting to see a
challenge in is as it relates to domestic violence.
and I think some of the other folks that testified today
mentioned domestic violence. We are starting to see an
increase in domestic violence related assaults and crimes.
so for us, you know, those are real challenges because it's a
lot of times, a lot of times the violence is underreported, we
know, but also the ability to connect and to get resources and
to help people that are in those situations can be challenging.
so again, you know, we partner with dc safe and other other
agencies, but ways to really try to address that, to drive down
those, those assaults as an area that we're continuing to look
at. Overall, why do you think that
domestic violence cases are not going down the same way?
we're seeing across all other categories?
well, it's a really good question.
I don't have any complete answer to why that's happening.
again, I think there's there's probably a few things going on
there. I would say some could be
weather related, especially with we have the cold and people
being kind of more inside over that.
but I don't think there's a there's a great, complete
understanding of why that is, at least from my perspective.
okay. Do you serve on the dv task
force with ccdc? I do not serve on the dv task
force. We do have an mpd representative
that's serving on the on the task force.
now, I believe it's captain hallahan is on there.
okay, okay. Your pre-hearing responses in
regard to my questions around case closure identified that
violent crimes have a much higher case closure for 2025
than we did in 24 2025. The closure rate for homicide
was the highest it's been since 2011.
dcs closure rate is better than comparably sized cities on
almost all categories of violent crime, and I want to note that
it's a huge accomplishment and level of progress.
what do you attribute some of those main factors to having a
higher closure rate, and can we learn some of those lessons to
apply to the domestic violence space?
I think the ability to have a higher closure rate, especially
in the homicide area, a lot of that is the breathing room
that's building. By having less homicides, it
gives the detectives more time to focus on those cases and to
move forward. You know, if there's multiple
homicides in a night or there's multiple in a shorter time
frame, those are more cases that have to continue to be
investigated. So it takes away time for other
cases that they're on. So I think that's one area where
it really the reduction not only benefits, obviously the lives
saved, but it also helps us to be able to move forward faster
in those cases. And then I will say I will
acknowledge the u.s. Attorney's office.
they have really there was, you know, a lot of cases that were
in review warrant applications with them.
they really worked to drive those numbers down much lower
than they have been in prior years.
so again, that allows us to to date, these violent offenders
that have killed people off the street.
thank you. And yeah, I can see it
continuing to kind of beget more progress because then as the
case closure rate goes up, hopefully crime goes down even
further. People knowing that there will
be. Absolutely.
and we know there's usually a small group of folks that are
engaged in a majority of criminal activity.
yeah. The case closure rate for
robbery was the lowest in the violent crimes that you all
listed. Can you speak to why you think
that is? And what more we can do to
ensure that robberies are investigated and that those
cases are closed? Yeah.
and so it's not there's not it's not I don't want there to be an
appearance that's not we're not not that we're not investigating
and we are. But that being said, a lot of
times, especially robberies and the circumstances around them
can be challenging. A lot of folks that conduct
robberies, they they're they're target selection.
they're victim selection. They may pick people that are in
nightlife areas or areas where they've been in bars and
restaurants. So their ability to identify
individuals or crowded areas, it may be more challenging than for
them to do identification as related to that, or even know
what happened to them in some cases.
so there are challenges that some things that help us, that
are very helpful. A lot of times in the robbery
cases is video. You know, we talk a lot about
the things that we do and we haven't touched on it as much,
especially in this hearing as we have in prior years.
but the real time crime center and the camera connecting the
ability for folks to get cameras and provide that information to
us is very helpful. When we do have these robberies,
it allows us to go back to investigate those and
potentially identify suspects that are in those cases.
so in that aspect of it. But a lot of times there is a
lot of legwork that has to go in there.
sometimes, especially in robbery situations, there may be a delay
in reporting for a variety of reasons.
maybe they're not from the area. Maybe they robbed them of a cell
phone, so their ability to immediately call 911 and get
officers there is delayed to some level.
so there can be factors that are in there that also play into
that. Okay.
so speaking of technology and using data to drive down crime,
we heard from a number of our public witnesses a serious
concern about the use of flock cameras and other technology.
and I want to ask you about your contract with flock safety.
and in a letter, in response to councilmember henderson's
questions, you stated that you, quote, asked mpd's policy and
standards division to review the department's current policy to
ensure it adequately addresses the capabilities of the new
technology and that you would direct mpd's risk management
division to begin to audit its use before assessing the program
to determine how mpd would move forward with it.
so can you provide an update on how those audits have gone, and
if there have been any changes based on your review?
sure. So let me provide a little
context, because people may not be like, why all of a sudden
now? So the flock cameras were used
to replace legacy lprs that we had that were from a different
vendor. So some of those lpr a license
plate reader. So flock is a license plate
reader is what they are. They they read license plates on
vehicles. And there's legislation in the
district about information and policy, about how long we can
retain reads from from vehicles that are not associated with
crime. So a 90 day time frame and then
those reads are no longer kept. Right.
but that being said, the flock system is a new system.
so we got those along with motorola as another vendor
that's out there to replace legacy or older systems of lpr
to get out there. There's great value.
in lpr. We talk about robberies and
crimes and things like that. The ability to especially when
there's vehicles involved to track vehicles that are in the
area or see a vehicle that's fleeing from the area, and also
immediately grab an image from that push out through a real
time crime center to officers on the street has been very
successful in helping to apprehend and locate individuals
you know, that are engaged in criminal activity.
so with this being said, you know, me being new to coming
into the seat, our policy that we have as it relates to lpr was
written when we had the older system, the from the older
venue, our vendor that provided lpr.
so since we now are using a variety of vendors and the old
system was, you know, different, it didn't go to it wasn't cloud
based. There's different considerations
with that. So just making sure that for me
being new, coming in the seat, doing a full review of our
policy to make sure that whatever new technologies are
built in this lpr that may be different than our old ones
we've addressed in our policy addresses that.
so we have the appropriate safeguards and civil liberties
as it relates to that in there. There's not anything that hasn't
changed or been missed since the policy was put out.
and then having risk management, just look at look at the the
logs to see making sure that we are doing routine audits of the
lpr files. When you use lpr you have to log
into it. So it's a unique individual
identifier. We know who's running the tags.
there's a space to indicate why you're doing it.
maybe it relates to an investigation or something else.
you can't just run lpr tags to run lpr reads.
that's not what we do. And then as I said, there's no
nexus. There's not a hit, a hit being
maybe the tag is related to a stolen vehicle.
officers go out to that area, they locate the vehicle and they
make an arrest associated that. That would be what we call a
hit. In that case, that data could be
retained for prosecution later on.
so just making sure that we do take, especially from me being
new, coming to the seat, making sure we take a fresh look at
this. We also have a new cio at the
agency who's been on for about 2 or 3 months.
so I think it's another good opportunity for us just to take
a full review of our policies, procedures, just to make sure
that we are following the best practices.
so when you say it's helpful in apprehending suspects who are
violating the law, how can district residents be sure that
their private information is not being utilized or caught up in
this system as they go about their daily lives?
yeah, so the lpr system, it captures images of tags.
it doesn't it doesn't do anything else other than that.
and then it compares it against stolen vehicle files, hot files.
and obviously it could you could check it through registration.
so there's no cjis compliant, which is the fbi's criminal
justice information system compliance.
so the appropriate safeguards as identified by the fbi have to be
in play to make sure individuals information is safeguarded
appropriately. So again, as part of the review,
I think it's just a good a good once over the contract actually
references the safeguards in the data that we provided with a
letter as well. But that seems to speak to
safeguards once the data has already been collected.
but how about what data itself is being collected at the front
end? Lpr's collect license plate data
from vehicles, so the tags that are on cars is what?
so any vehicle in the district of columbia could be if it
passes an lpr on public space. Yeah, they're on public space.
so if it passes it. But again that data can't be
retained more than 90 days. So after 90 days it has to be
offloaded. It's not kept forever or for
years or things like that. It's not allowed.
and how long has mpd been using this technology?
lpr that's a great, great question.
I would probably venture to say shortly thereafter.
2001 2002 I can get you an exact time frame.
we've been using it for for a very long time now.
our other jurisdictions across the country using this most, I
would venture to say, most jurisdictions across the country
are using the lp's. Like I said, they're they're a
great tool, especially after a crime occurs.
so I would say there's probably very few jurisdictions that
don't have some level of lpr usage.
so when you said it's a good time to review the safeguards,
when when will you have that review completed?
I would imagine probably within the next month or two, fully.
okay. And are the flock cameras
integrated into the real time crime center?
yes, they are. And then does flock safety have
access to our real time crime center footage?
no. My understanding is they do not
have access to air video footage.
we can. Only the data is our data to
have. So we can only share with other
agencies if we so choose to do so.
but mpd can share with other agencies.
if we choose to do so, we could share with other other law
enforcement agencies. And do you share with federal
law enforcement agencies? We do not share with federal law
enforcement agencies. There is a what's called a
national lookup tool. We were sharing information and
there are some agencies that are in there.
I don't believe any of them are federal law enforcement
agencies, but I don't I don't think we have a full list of all
the agencies that are in there. So again, that's another reason
why it's a good time to take a look at that as I come in, due
to the seat. Okay.
well, I will ask you if we can relook at that file and make
sure we're not sharing that information.
okay. So last year we passed a
resolution. The sense of the council on
supporting humane and trauma informed responses to behavioral
health crisis resolution of 2025.
and we made several recommendations to multiple
agencies, including mpd, to include assigning co-response
teams to relevant behavioral mental health crises.
do you think that there are sufficient staffing numbers in
the co-response teams to be able to respond to behavioral health
crises and calls? I'd like to see there.
I would like to see there be more more partnerships.
I think there's value in the program.
so I think that from what we've seen, as far as the usefulness
of it, I think it would be good to have more teams.
okay, I agree, so thank you and we'll hope to fund more of that
in this year's budget. So we talked to director cross
from the office of police complaints about some of the
trends that he's seeing and complaints that have come in.
how often do you have retraining for officers on body worn camera
footage? Noncompliance?
that was an area that he spoke to as being a common trend.
and he also shared that there's this period of two minutes where
the sound is off on body worn camera footage that generally
has then kind of missed some information in the review.
so what is your message to officers around training of
turning on bwc? And then when we're finding that
officers are in noncompliance, how do you deal with retraining.
yeah. So so a couple of things.
so bwc is have to be activated when officers either
self-initiated or dispatched to a call, they're required to
activate. When they activate that's when
the video starts with the audio. Prior to them doing that.
that's where that two minute buffer that director crowe
speaks about. That's the area where before
they've actually pushed the button, it's always recording,
just not the audio. And my understanding is it has
something to do with the amount of data as it relates to that.
so there's two minutes before you push the button that's
always there. That's that window that's there.
as far as actual training, when the officers are in the academy,
as part of the recruit training, we've integrated the bwc into
their their training. So just as they're going through
as part just like if you're doing a traffic stop, it's not
you're just learning about how to do a traffic stop.
part of that is getting dispatched to call activating
your bwc, going up there, learning how to tag the bwc.
so those are things that officers are taught in the
academy. With that being said, there's
always reminders and things that are needed like that.
so, for example, last year in january and january, we put out
a bwc training reminder. These are what that is is we'll
do roll call training, which is every day in roll call.
officers have a training topic that's out there, and the topic
usually repeats 4 or 5 times a month.
so there's usually I believe it's 6 or 7 topics.
and then they repeat. So they're getting it multiple
times a month. Again to kind of reinforce that.
we use that as an opportunity when we start to see issues or
problems or just things that we think we need a quick reminder
roll call, you know, take five minutes to talk about just to
keep those reminders that are out there.
so that's something that we did in january.
we also did it last year in april.
and it's something else that we'll continue to push forward
with that. With that being said, if there
are cases that are where there's a bwc violation, members fail to
activate those activations, those are investigated.
and then, of course, depending on, you know, the situation, is
it their first, first delayed activation or is it their 10th,
for example? Depends on what the outcome is
as far as discipline. So there is an investigation.
if it is sustained, then they receive the appropriate
discipline as appropriate. Depending on the circumstances
of it. Okay.
well I appreciate you kind of looking into that as it sounded
like that trend is continuing around noncompliance for bwc and
especially in this state of affairs where we have so much
additional presence in the city, that footage is just very
important to us and to the public.
no, I mean, I personally, I think bwc is is one of the most
valuable tools we've had in recent times for the officers,
for the community. I think it helps to to take
things that are alleged out of the way.
and if there are things that need to be retrained or areas to
be identified, it allows us to do that.
well, thank you. So one of the areas that you and
I and the former chief have worked closely together on for
many years is our staffing challenges.
at mpd. We are now at around 3150
officers, which I think is a crisis and a huge problem.
we have to have more local mpd officers who are here and can
handle our policing efforts, and we've tried a lot of different
things over the last couple of years.
we've increased bonuses and tuition and housing assistance.
we. Just, you know, last week
changed the retirement age, eliminated the retirement age.
we worked with you all on changing the college credit
requirements and partnering with udc.
what has been working because the numbers keep going in the
wrong direction. Hopefully my drop bill will pass
soon. It's in the committee of the
whole which will, as you know, allow officers to earn their
retirement benefits but still stay on the force.
but how can we make a deeper impact on recruitment and
retention and rebuilding our local police force, which needs
more officers to handle our local policing?
no. And to your point, we've done a
lot of things to try to address it.
and it's almost like as we as we move things, the goalposts keep
moving or the things that we do. Other people, for lack of a
better word, steal our ideas and then they implement them.
things like when we initially put out the bonus, we started to
see an increase and it didn't take very long at all for
everybody else to either do the same thing.
so again, this this region is one of the most competitive when
it comes to law enforcement. So looking at what we can do, I
know last year we were able to make some movement on the
educational requirement. But at this point and I
mentioned in my testimony the only agency that is now has that
as a requirement. When you come into the
department is arlington county, and they're getting ready to go
up to $90,000 a year as a starting salary, where we start
at $75,000. So there's challenges with that,
right? I think an area where we can
make some ground out with that is to look at the the education
requirement. And, you know, we kind of have
proffered this idea last year. We got a little ground with it.
but the ability there's a program that's out there through
one of the community colleges, and I think there's others we
could look at that would give the ability for individuals to
enter the academy without any college credit.
and through the police academy and some additional classes to
leave before graduation, they would achieve the 60 college
credits. I think that would be a way for
us to open the window to to another applicant pool that
would be out there. I know last year, the, you know,
chief smith worked very hard on getting the additional the
credits down for the 15. But the challenge with that is
we haven't seen at this point anyone who's in that area where
they have 45 or more and just need 15 to get in, I hope, I
think on our end was potentially was it a tool where we could get
some cadets in that program earlier?
but with that, the cadets are in like a cohort program through
udc. So the credits that they would
get through the academy, they're already getting through their
their program, so it doesn't allow them to pull out there.
I think that's an area where we're going to we could see some
some, some benefit to that because again, at the end of the
day, they're still going to have the college credits.
they still have to pass those courses.
and if they don't, then they won't meet the requirements and
they won't be able to be a police officer.
but you know, again, I said it earlier, but there are so many
other opportunities out there and things like the $70,000
hiring bonus, the retention bonus.
it's your point. I think the drop program would
be very beneficial in keeping people similar to what park
police is doing with their retention bonus to keep people
for a few more years. We really need to stabilize if
we can keep people for a few more years and then push up
that. That will give us some breathing
room. If we can get more people in
that door to really make that up, because you're spot on.
I mean, you know, these the federal folks that are here, if
we can get our numbers back up, that allows us to get rid of
them. And then we have we as a city
have full control over the policing in the city, the police
department, how what we want the mpd officers to do here in the
city. So it's just beneficial overall.
and then aside from all that, the officers.
right? I mean, the officers, we talk a
lot about overtime and overtime. It's very expensive.
but there is a human toll on the officers as it relates to that.
and I know people say, oh, officers love to overtime.
yeah, to a point they do. But this has an impact.
when we have these events, they have to be staffed.
and it's not like they have the option to do that.
so I mean, there's an impact on the officers personally, their
well-being, their families, and that doesn't go lightly on me
because we continue to ask more and more as our numbers go down.
so it really is an area we just have to continue to work on
because, as I said, everybody else is moving what they're
doing, which then pushes us to have to try to move, to continue
to be inventive and think of different things, to get people
in the door, to get us where we need to be to keep the city
safe. Well, I certainly don't want to.
create a promo for any of the federal agencies that are that
are hiring, but just as a reference check, like where are
our our our bonuses across the board, just much lower than all
of the. So yeah.
so we're we're 25,000 and they range from 50,000 to $70,000 is
where the region at right now. And if we provided a higher
bonus, do you think we would save time over on overtime?
I do, I think overall because it's an initial I think if we
hire, if we offered more as an initial bonus, and I think that
if we were to also marry that with looking at that, the
requirement as far as the college, because I think that
opens a window of other people that could then could then be in
there with, again, not letting us actually overall reduce our
requirements because they still will have those credits.
I mean, it's a benefit for them. They come in, they leave with 60
credits of college, you know, through our tuition
reimbursement program, they can continue on the department and
work that all the way to bachelor's or master's or
whatever as they're on the department.
so I think for for someone who may not have any level of
college for them to come to the department, get a good job, get
college credit while learning a skill set, and then continue
that on and build that up to a bachelor's or master's through
our other programs. I think that's where you look at
the benefit. Continuing from that.
well, absolutely. And, you know, you have my
support with that. We tried to move that last year,
but we had some disagreement among colleagues about the right
level. So we we ended in this piecemeal
fashion. I think that's very interesting
information that nobody has been eligible in that category.
that's a big problem. So we were hoping that would
move the numbers. And so I invite you to be part
of kind of a reconsideration with, with my colleagues around
making sure that we can get people into this field and
recognizing that a college degree is not for everybody.
I think we're seeing that shift across a lot of different
industries across the country. So happy to continue working
with you on that. Absolutely.
in terms of the bonuses. So putting aside this may be a
question for you on the budget side, but putting aside the
overtime spent that we can get reimbursed through the federal
government, how much local overtime are we spending a year
or this past year, local overtime?
local overtime last year was 76 million.
was 76 million. And how much is the average
recruit class over the last six months of this fiscal year?
that's something like how many officers were in there in each
recruit class on average. Yeah.
and again, this is kind of off the top.
my head I would say average maybe 12 or 13.
we have some that go higher, some that come lower.
our goals right now currently 16.
but we're we're not quite there at class that's in right now is
ten okay. And I'm just thinking out loud
here. But you know, if we were to
provide $100,000 bonus, beating all of the other federal agents
for a short period of time, that would be so much less than all
of the overtime we're spending, right?
yes. I mean, getting officers in and
I mean, the amount the rate they're paid at on overtime.
and again, when we have to shift, change, make shifts to
not only working the hours, but we changed our tours and things
like that. There's additional penalties
associated with it. So yeah, I mean, getting people
in the door overall would save the overtime.
okay. I want to ask you about kind of
systems upgrades. One of the.
concerns that I've heard from officers is just some of the
kind of rudimentary way that we're dealing with some staffing
and overtime issues. Have you all thought about any
other ai technology that could help with deployment decisions
and staffing and making sure that to your point of someone
being burnt out with overtime, that, you know, we're not
putting the same person over and over and over on the shifts and
kind of managing a little bit more fairly, taking out some of
the human error. Yes.
so since I've been in the seat, we've been looking at some
different technologies that I think that potentially could
help us with, with not only crime data, but deployment
providing a different variety of data sources in there and using
technology to do that. Obviously, before we we actually
implemented the ai. You know, there's a whole ai
values and group that looks at that.
and we want to have conversations because we know
that ai, there are concerns from the community also about the
implementation of ai and what that looks like.
so before we do that, I definitely think we want to have
that conversation. But I do think anything we can
do to leverage the technology and some of our scheduling
aspects and some of the districts, we are using a
technology over there. Some of the things we're looking
at, is there a way to leverage that department wide, which I
think would be beneficial? We did upgrade our time and
attendance system about 2 or 3 years ago.
I think that's been very helpful overall in that.
so again, since we are down resources as far as staffing,
looking at how we can we leverage that.
you know, a lot of the a lot of the issues with that is they
cost money. So again, it's not it's not
going to be free. But but again, in the long run I
think it would the value would push forward with that.
so it's definitely an area we're looking at.
chief robinson, his team kind of looking at different
technologies and how that can help us.
what are you hearing from officers or that you're seeing
on the policy side of things, and how?
how we're supporting them or supporting retention?
you know, it's a mixed bag. I definitely think that the
overtime conversations, the force details, when I say force
details, things like state of the union was yesterday, we have
to have a full activation because of some of the things
that are going on, the resources that are needed.
again, that goes back to morale. Those are force details.
so when you start looking at people where things like I could
leave dc and I could go to arlington county and I could
make $90,000 out of the gate, and my workload is completely
less. And my, my work life balance is
better. Those are things, especially as
officers. Come on, you know, years ago,
kind of the the thought was within the agency after about
five years, kind of people are going to leave, they're going to
leave. But we see officers now that are
farther along in their career that do look and take those
options to leave where we haven't seen that.
so I think again, it's, you know, a lot of these things are
interconnected, but that that plays on that, you know, morale,
the amount of hours the officers have to work, play a role into
all that. What else do you think could be
done to ensure that more of our officers are district residents?
we have now only 18% of sworn officers live in the district.
have there been any programs that have been effective in
moving that? How could we make sure that it's
more district residents representing?
yeah, this is this is an area that we've talked a lot about
over the years about how can we get people in the city that I
think the elf in the room is the cost of living in the city is
expensive, right? Especially when most new
officers coming in from the area.
so they're looking at the cost. So is there a way to subsidize
housing? You know, we have some short
term housing things. When people first come in the
agency to help them get here and look at that.
but are there things we can do on the housing front, incentives
we can provide? I don't know what that looks
like. If it's a tax incentive or other
things that may be beneficial to help officers come in, because
there is a benefit to being in the city.
but then when you start outweighing that with the cost
of housing and families and things like that, it's a lot.
so, you know, officers, they're always weighing those benefits.
yes. And I think all many roads lead
to cost of housing. And is certainly important to
make sure we're continuing to build more housing in the city
and have more affordable housing available.
so we'll keep working on that and thinking about ways,
especially as we see more and more vacancies with these gsa
buildings, would love those to be additional opportunities to
provide more housing in the city, especially to our first
responders and people across d.c.
one of the things I'm concerned about is once we get people in
the door, like if we, you know, we've got them with the bonuses
or the tuition assistance, making sure that they stay.
and I know we have long term retention challenges, but your
response is recorded that 10% of recruits that were hired in fy
2025 are no longer active at mpd.
that feels like a large number that didn't make it through the
year. What do you think is happening
there? I think there's a lot of pulls
with that. There are some people who decide
that policing are for them. There's some people that get
wooed away by other law enforcement agencies for some of
these other bonuses and things like that that we talked, talked
about. There's some folks, once they
get the training here, they look to return to whatever.
if they're not from the area to what other area they may be.
so I think there's there's a lot of things that go in there, but
I think a lot of it also goes back to some of the
competitiveness of this area. We had some folks that didn't
have very much time on probably under two years that recently
left and went to park police again, back to some of the
incentives. You've already been trained how
to police in the district. You know the area.
you know what park police do, and they're offering all these
incentives. You have two years on, a year on
out of the academy, other than repaying a portion of that.
but if they're going to give you $70,000, that's not really, you
know, that big of a concern. So I think that there's, again,
a lot of options that are out there for them.
and the work of mpd is very unique, that's for sure.
it's different than any other agency.
and a good way, I think, because you can do so many different
things and we have so many different opportunities.
all right. So I think two years ago was we
tried something new with mpd, with these community safety
ambassadors. And last year you all said the
community safety ambassador program was not successful and
has been disbanded. Can you elaborate a little on
what happened there? Why didn't it work and what ever
happened to that money? Sure.
so we'll start with the money. As far as my understanding, the
money is the the money was reallocated to other positions
within the agency. And when I get down, I miss
campbell can probably talk a little bit about that.
some of the folks that were community safety ambassadors
were placed inside other positions across the agency.
as the program was disbanded. Some of the challenges that we
saw with that, I think the initial idea was, was good,
right? I mean, it sounded like a way to
potentially have some duties that were there.
but when we really got down to the operationalizing of it, what
the duties they were able to do, what they weren't able to do,
the deployment of them, the supervision of them, there was a
lot of challenges that because a lot of times, you know, you
think you're going as a police officer, you think you're going
to the call for x, and when you get there, there's y.
and when it's something that's outside of their scope, then you
run to these challenges of what they can do.
so, you know, we had some areas that they were they were helpful
with, you know, for increased visibility and presence.
but I think the initial concept of kind of what they could do
and then what they turned out to be were not one and the same.
so the folks that we did have we did have some challenges with
retention and, and. Concerns with some of the folks
that were hired. So some separated through
natural processes. And then, patricia, do you know
how many we re allocated within the agency?
I would actually have to get back on the number and to what
positions that they were converted to, if that's okay.
okay. Sure.
that would be great. But please do, because I asked
this last year at performance oversight and we never got heard
back. Thank you.
so one of the pieces of thinking about this new program at the
time was that let's have officers do policing and let's
have other people be these community ambassadors who can.
maybe they don't have police training and they're not
traditional sworn officers, but they can answer phones and help
with paperwork and take off some of that burden.
so just substantively, like, why did that model not work?
so what they were what they were doing was more of forward
facing. So some of the positions that we
did move them into, I know, were more of our customer service
representatives. So our folks that are at
districts that take reports and do things like that, so not so
far from, I think what the what the idea was potentially, but
what they were was a uniform, a uniform presence that were going
out on the street. And then when they got out
there, their actual ability to do a lot of the functions that
people expected them to be able to do were challenging.
so I do know the community service csas that we have in the
districts were some of them went, I think there might have
been some cell block tech positions, civilian professional
staff positions that they migrated into as well.
but we'll get you the full breakdown.
thank you. Are there any new initiatives
that you think we should be prioritizing this year?
the budget, you know, right now I you know, you highlight
technology. Always looking at technology is
something for us. You know the cameras is an area
we're continuing to work on to build up the cctv cameras on
that aspect of it. As I mentioned, the value that
that has, we talked a little bit about lpr, but cameras have that
value too of something happens. The ability to get an image,
push it out to the force. If we can identify and locate
that person quicker, obviously to get things down.
so looking those areas, there is another another spot that we're
continuing to push forward with because as our numbers are down,
as we talked about, what can we do to try to leverage or take
away things that officers don't have to do to make it more
efficient. So we looked at some different
products, even as it comes to like how we write reports.
and would that be beneficial just to think about giving
officers more time to do policing activities?
okay. Thank you.
let's talk a little bit about interactions that you all have
with young people and training around there.
first, I want to check in on the juvenile investigative response
unit or the jiru, which seeks to prevent youth crime, reduce
recidivism, and foster stronger community partnerships.
and your pre-hearing responses. You noted that the giro has
advanced adoption of pattern based investigation,
strengthened school partnerships, and implemented
rapid re-engagement strategies for absconded youth.
what is adoption of pattern based investigations mean, and
how has that been effective? Sure.
so like a lot of crimes, juvenile crime is not that much
different. There's a lot of pattern crimes,
you know, small group of folks that are engaged in criminal
activity. So looking at that, you know,
why are they engaged? Are there other resources or
other agencies we can connect them in with?
so reassigning those investigations from typically
criminal investigations division within a district, let's just
say might handle it if it was robberies or things like that.
and they may be spread across different districts by assigning
to giro, letting them to look at it, especially when we if we
know from the outset there's juveniles involved with that,
you know, it helps them to identify those patterns, bring
those together and bring those closures and they work.
they're part of our youth investigations division that's
over there. So they you know, they have sros
and other youth facing folks that are there with them to help
work on that and get some strategies.
also working with absconders, getting those back into custody
with doctors and kind of working on that area as well.
so it's an area where, you know, we stood up last year trying to
evaluate kind of its effectiveness.
we see some effectiveness. So that's another area where I'm
trying to look at, you know, some more protocols and
procedures. So how can we again try to
enhance what we can get out of them to, to address some of
these, mitigate some of these things on the front end?
okay. Well thank you for that update.
and I think we'll be important as we head into the spring to
think about what is working, especially as we see the trends
not not resulting as as an as much success as we're seeing on
the adult side. And so I want to make sure we're
continuing to lean into what is working, but try new things if
if we need to. On the juvenile curfew zones,
how many of these zones have been established since you
gained authority to do so? Sure.
so if memory serves, we've had, I don't want to 15.
yeah, we have 15, 15 total. Okay.
and are you finding that the more effective piece of this
authorization is from the establishment of a zone itself
or the earlier curfew time? In my opinion, I think it's the
establishment of the zone itself.
I think it's the posting of the zone.
it's putting it out publicly. When we do these zones, we don't
just do them to do them. There's usually a reason why
there's a someone's going on social media posting whatever.
so as we're still doing the curfew zone and working through
that part of it, we're also, as I talked about earlier,
investigative services bureau, trying to identify who's the
poster. Can we get back to them?
can we get them to take it down? You know, parental involvement
in that. What does that look like to try
to address it so it doesn't happen.
and we have been successful in several cases with that.
but I do think with the zones, the ability for a it to be
clearly defined where it's at, to push it out publicly and to
have those additional resources in the area, I think it's
helpful with those. From what we've seen.
okay. Our officers trained differently
on how to interact appropriately with young people versus adults.
I wouldn't say they're overall trained how to act differently.
I mean, they are trained on some of the nuances of young people.
there are certain people within the department or sros that have
more specific training because their interactions is more with
that. But we put out training of how
to interact with juveniles as things change, like when our
curfew zones came out, pushing out, you know, the curfew
enforcement, making sure people are aware of it and how to
implement it. So as things change, like we
talked about earlier with the roll call training, or if we
start to see issues or areas of improvement put in that kind of
training inside of our roll call training, our professional
development training that we push out to the force, don't you
think that officers should be trained on interactions with
young people and how those differ or should differ than an
interaction with an adult? No, I think there is some value
with that. Obviously, there's a lot of
there's a lot of things that we have to train people on, and
some of the basic things about how we interact with the young
person, although there could be some nuances, some things like
being respectful, engaging them, those are no different with an
adult or a young person. Like we should be respectful.
we should be treating them within the constitutional
guidelines. There are some nuances with
that. So it's not an area I'm against,
you know, enhancing training on. But there are a lot of competing
interests that are there. So it is something in the
academy you get specific training about how to interact
with juveniles, about how to interact with juveniles that's
out there. So it's not that they don't get
it, but, you know, there are special areas like the sros that
get even more enhanced training as it relates to that.
okay. And I know you all go through a
lot of training, but it just strikes me as an area that
should be specifically trained for.
I mean, of course, in all contexts, officers should be
respectful and constitutional, but young people's minds are not
fully developed yet. There's an added, you know, fear
around authority or could be a lack of understanding your
rights. And so, especially with an
agency that has so much exposure to young people and with the
continuation possibly of these zones, it feels like a
worthwhile, specific training area.
absolutely. Okay.
thank you. Okay.
so one of the capital projects that I'm really worried about is
the state of the mpd substations.
and I hear this a lot from our officers.
I see this myself and I visit our mpd facilities, and these
are facilities that need to be up to date and functional.
24 over seven. And, you know, we talked a
little bit about the pay, but I also think it demonstrates our
value to our officers and recognizing that we want them to
be working in habitable places that are, you know, warm in the
winter and cool in the summer and don't have leaks.
and last year, when I asked the chief about this, I believe she
told me that all of the substations were on track to be
modernized. It now looks like.
so we added an enhancement of $1.6 million last year and
$950,000 over the financial plan for building renovations and
construction for renovating the training academy facility.
so I guess, what's the status of of that facility?
but also, are there plans in the pipeline to renovate and update
all of our substations? So a couple of things with that.
so there is a so the seventh district is their closest
facility. That's that's to be fully
renovated. And actually it's a it's a tear
and rebuild. My understanding with that is on
the latest timeline sometime later this year.
there should be a groundbreaking.
obviously it's a multi year project where they'll build a
new station and then tear down the the older station there.
so that is in the pipeline. It's been in the pipeline for
several years. We've seen designs and things
like that. So that's that is moving along
with that. The training academy.
I understand that's a joint training academy with the the
fire and ems. I know that that conversation is
there. I think it was pushed out
another year. Patricia, do you know?
I can follow up on the schedule of that?
I do know that it is in collaboration with them, so that
that is probably the next one that's closest with that.
but all their facilities outside the first district and the sixth
district, they've been there. They're newer, they're
refurbished, buildings are in need of improvements.
with that being said, our fourth district is just wrapping up in
a renovation specifically for its cellblock.
the fifth district is cellblock is closed now for improvements
and renovations. As it relates to that.
so they will continue to to work to improve those areas.
but outside of that, all of our facilities have challenges that
we're continuing to work with. Dgs.
when I took over in the seat, one of the the tasks, the
challenges I gave to assistant chief robinson that oversees
their technical services bureau is to he's been working with
dgs, you know, just to identify do a full walkthrough involving
the the fop union folks, dgs and us to get a full overlay of each
of the facilities and the challenges.
and what can we do to try to get some, even some quick hits to
improve some of the minor things?
to your point, we go back to morale, money and all those
kinds of things are one aspect, but making sure that the
facilities that you report to are up to par is important as
well. So that's an area to just
continue to work with dgs to try to prioritize those areas.
important. But many of our facilities are
in need of, you know, full replacement in the future for
sure. Okay.
and I'm happy to hear that seventh district is on track.
I was there a couple weeks ago and it just it's the worst of
all. Certainly needs an update and
upgrade. But I'll also just just point
out 2d and 3d where I recently was was at 2d, 3d 5040.
yeah, they all have. They all have challenges.
they all have challenges. They really all do.
and so just as you know, I want to support your priorities for
the budget. But as we talk about technology
and staffing, I just want to make sure we're all on the same
page of working together on on leaning on dgs and making sure
that those renovations are prioritized in the budget.
yes, ma'am. Okay.
all right. Well, I know you must be bummed,
but I think we are nearing the end of our time together today.
chief, as always, I want to give you an opportunity.
if you have any closing thoughts you want to share or anything
you want to highlight that we didn't get a chance to talk
about today? No, I just want to thank.
thank you. Chairwoman, and thank the
council members that were able to join us today.
and again, some of these these conversations are tough and
they're challenging. And hopefully I was able to
provide some clarity or some insight and some of those areas,
they're topics I know that will continue to come up and will
continue to work together collaboratively on as we move
forward. So I look forward to working
with the council, with the community, and again, trying to
work together as we get through these challenging times.
so thank you very much for the invitation to to go over
performance. And I just want to leave with
saying thank you to the metropolitan police department.
at the end of the day, it's the women and men of the
metropolitan police department that come in day in and day out.
they work the details, they go in the area, they respond to
nine one one calls. They're interacting with their
federal partners and trying to do what they can in those
situations. And it's a tough situation.
but the work that they do every day is what makes the city
safer. So I just want to thank them for
what they do. Well, thank you very much,
chief, and thank you for all that you do.
I want to just go over a couple of our follow ups, just to make
sure we're on the same page, because there were a number of
things that we talked about following up with.
one was the incident with jose argueta and benito lopez from
the washington post article requesting an investigation into
those two incidents and identification of whether any
mpd officers involved violated mpd law or district law.
the us marshal shooting of julian bailey.
additional information like what happened at the convenience
store when mpd was on the scene, was mpd instructed to canvass?
how did the us marshals and u.s. Park police find out about it?
no, to be on the lookout. Did they get it through apb or
were they on the scene with mpd? And why were they responding?
without mpd? An update on the shootings.
you know, the the body worn camera footage.
I do think as the chief, it is footage that you should review
yourself. I, I think there have only been
three shootings from federal agents that I know about.
so hopefully anytime there's a federal agent who shoots someone
in d.c., I think it should rise to the level of our chief
reviewing. I agree I wasn't the chief at
the time. Yes, I have reviewed the one
since I've been in the seat. A follow up around overtime for
the top overtime earners. We had that one report that
their 30,000 salary. Yep, the 38,106 hours.
why the number of patrol officers was so reduced for
street patrols. So we have the breakdown between
street patrolling versus administrative coverage, a
review of the lpr policy with cloud based technology, and a
confirmation of who is getting that data.
a look at the bwc noncompliance. And if we should get rid of that
two minute gap period, and then a follow up around the community
safety ambassadors and what happened there and where that
funding was reallocated to. But I want to I want to thank
you all again for being here. Everyone from the public, we had
110 witnesses today from the public, which I think really
speaks to the concern that so many in dc have over the
increase in federal presence in the city.
what that means for immigration enforcement, and what it means
to public access to transparency and justice in our city.
and so I really appreciate you all being here for sharing your
experiences, your concerns, your ideas, where moving legislation
that I introduced yesterday around the body worn camera
footage. There's other pieces of
legislation on a permanent basis that we're considering in the
committee, and we'll continue to work with the community and
with. Mpd and all of our colleagues
and everybody else to try to ensure we're doing everything we
can every day to keep everyone in dc safe.
that is, as I've always said, is our greatest responsibility and
obligation as a government. And that means that everybody
has to be safe. And so we will stay laser
focused on that. I also want to thank you, chief
carroll, for your leadership over the police department and
everybody who works at mpd every single day.
it feels like every year we say these are not easy times.
and again, we're here again saying these are not easy times
and we appreciate all that you do every day.
we know it's hard. We know you hear it from a lot
of different perspectives, but I know that mpd officers who work
in all of our districts care deeply about our city, about
serving our city, and about doing right by our city.
and so we're going to continue working together to ensure that
we can bolster our staffing numbers of our local police
department, and to follow up on these measures to ensure that
everybody can be accountable, as I also often say, we all have to
follow the law, even those of us who enforce the law.
and so that will continue to be an important value to all of us
moving forward as we head through this spring and today.
brought to light some gaps. I think that there are in both
information and access to justice around some of these
cases. So I look forward to continuing
to work with you, chief, to fill some of those gaps and seeing
what more we can do. But thank you all again.
thank you to my team and the building team for being here all
day. I know it's a late night and
really appreciate the huge effort that you all put in as
well. So with that, the time is 8:32
p.m. And we are adjourned.